# Should Mirror Blocks be added to the Weekly Competition?



## Mike Hughey (Dec 9, 2019)

Four polls are being posted; note that only a maximum of two events will be added to the weekly competition.

This thread will be open for 15 days.

Vote yes ONLY if you BOTH want the event added AND intend to compete in it if possible.

Vote no if you specifically don't want the event added.

If the event receives at least 22 Yes votes (10% of the weekly average of participants) AND ALSO has more Yes votes than No votes, and is one of the top 2 events chosen, it will be added to the competition.

Responses other than Yes or No will not have any impact on the decision. Your response can be changed up until the poll closes.

For mirror blocks, I feel like there was some doubt as to the intention of this puzzle being added in some cases, so I am offering options to vote to solve it blind with no inspection, versus solving it with no restrictions (15 second inspection, sighted, as a normal solve), versus a yes vote to adding it as an event under either format.

So, please vote with the initial Yes option if you would like the event added and intend to compete in it whether it is a normal sighted event or a blind no inspection event.

Vote with the third option (Yes) if you want the event added and intend to compete in it, but only if it is with no restrictions, and you do not intend to compete in it if it is specified to be blind with no inspection.

Vote with the fourth option (Yes) if you want the event added and intend to compete in it, but only if it is blind with no inspection, and you do not intend to compete in it if it is specified to be with no restrictions (sighted, with 15 second inspection time).

I hope people will accept this odd approach; I'd like to think it gives the best opportunity for people to express their desires for this event.


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Dec 9, 2019)

Meh


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## ProStar (Dec 9, 2019)

I'd like both mirror blocks and mirror blocks BLD no memo. Is there a choice for that?


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 9, 2019)

DarkSavage said:


> I'd like both mirror blocks and mirror blocks BLD no memo. Is there a choice for that?


Both because of the confusion that it might cause, and because I'd like greater variety than having both added as the only two new events this year, I think I will not provide such an option. I'm sorry about that. If this event should happen to get enough votes to exceed the minimum of 22 votes and exceed the number of votes of all the other events, I will still only add the version of this event with the most yes votes, and the other version will have to wait until next year to be added.

So if you really like both events and want them both added, your best bet is to choose the first vote, so your vote will count for either of the two versions of the event. Unfortunately, you still won't get more than one of them this year. But there's always next year...

Realistically, I probably should have only provided a poll for solving with no restrictions, since it seems that's the only version that got enough votes to make the poll. But I wanted to provide the option in case some people who voted for mirror blocks without any comments might have actually meant blind no inspection.


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## 2018AMSB02 (Dec 9, 2019)

I really dont want a 3x3 shape mod to be added


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## One Wheel (Dec 9, 2019)

I just don't feel it adds much, although if it was added I may compete.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 10, 2019)

I will be counting down the days for these polls, both to remind people of the deadline and to make sure none of the threads disappears too far from view because of less discussion on one of them.

Fourteen more days for these polls.


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## Kit Clement (Dec 11, 2019)

13 days left!


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## CubicOreo (Dec 11, 2019)

Keep in mind: skewb is actually a shape mod of the pyraminx








Skewb - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





So, it's not like we don't competitively speedsolve shape mods already


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## TipsterTrickster (Dec 11, 2019)

CubicOreo said:


> Keep in mind: skewb is actually a shape mod of the pyraminx
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Skewb is not a pyraminx shape mod, although the two puzzles are similar.


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## Kit Clement (Dec 11, 2019)

CubicOreo said:


> Keep in mind: skewb is actually a shape mod of the pyraminx
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a pretty loose definition of a shape mod then, as the Skewb repurposes many of the piece types of a pyraminx - tri-centers become half of the corners, where the other half of the corners are not even pieces on a Pyraminx, tips no longer exist, and edges lose orientation. A mirror blocks is a literal shape mod of a 3x3x3 and can be solved the exact same way.

lol the wiki page you referenced cites Ruwix for calling it a shape mod, and we all know how completely terrible Ruwix is as a resource.


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## ProStar (Dec 11, 2019)

Kit Clement said:


> That's a pretty loose definition of a shape mod then, as the Skewb repurposes many of the piece types of a pyraminx - tri-centers become half of the corners, where the other half of the corners are not even pieces on a Pyraminx, tips no longer exist, and edges lose orientation. A mirror blocks is a literal shape mod of a 3x3x3 and can be solved the exact same way.
> 
> lol the wiki page you referenced cites Ruwix for calling it a shape mod, and we all know how completely terrible Ruwix is as a resource.



*Uses ruwix*

Oh yeah its horrible


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## CubicOreo (Dec 11, 2019)

Kit Clement said:


> That's a pretty loose definition of a shape mod then, as the Skewb repurposes many of the piece types of a pyraminx - tri-centers become half of the corners, where the other half of the corners are not even pieces on a Pyraminx, tips no longer exist, and edges lose orientation. A mirror blocks is a literal shape mod of a 3x3x3 and can be solved the exact same way.
> 
> lol the wiki page you referenced cites Ruwix for calling it a shape mod, and we all know how completely terrible Ruwix is as a resource.


Man, should’ve known better than to trust wikipedia...

But I guess what I’m trying to say is: shape mods do change the original puzzle. No matter how similar mirror cube and 3x3 are, they’re still not exactly the same and are solved a little differently (shapes as opposed to stickers). Though the steps to solving them are the same, mirror cube adds a challenge simply because the pieces are different. I’m fairly certain everyone is slower at solving mirror cube than 3x3 (although I suppose that’s partly because hardware, way less people speedsolving it, etc). Now I can understand not wanting to add something like octagonal barrel on the site (I woudn’t want to either), but I don’t think it’s really fair to not add mirror cube to the site just because it’s a shape mod.


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## Kit Clement (Dec 11, 2019)

CubicOreo said:


> Man, should’ve known better than to trust wikipedia...
> 
> But I guess what I’m trying to say is: shape mods do change the original puzzle. No matter how similar mirror cube and 3x3 are, they’re still not exactly the same and are solved a little differently (shapes as opposed to stickers). Though the steps to solving them are the same, mirror cube adds a challenge simply because the pieces are different. I’m fairly certain everyone is slower at solving mirror cube than 3x3 (although I suppose that’s partly because hardware, way less people speedsolving it, etc). Now I can understand not wanting to add something like octagonal barrel on the site (I woudn’t want to either), but I don’t think it’s really fair to not add mirror cube to the site just because it’s a shape mod.



If Skewb is a shape mod though, then I think you can say that any 4 axis puzzle is a shape mod of a pyraminx, they just added some piece types compared to the original Pyraminx. Yes, there are sometimes modifications to how those pieces function, like centers having an orientation on a 3x3x3 shape mod, but the overall solving approach is the same. This is even less applicable to mirror blocks, and I don't think that it really adds anything to the current events other than ergonomic difficulty.

But to provide even more reasons to not add this event, my concerns center around what exactly defines a mirror blocks puzzle. To pose a few ideas:

How "bumped" should the sides be? 
How do you provide a consistent set of guidelines to determine what is a legal/illegal puzzle?
In what direction do they get bumped? 
Some mirror blocks puzzles out there have some sides with equal depth. Is this legal? I'd say that this isn't a legal puzzle, but it could easily be interpreted as one by competitors for this competition.
There's a visual/tactile recognition and ergonomic tradeoff to "bumping" the puzzle more or less, but I'd think that what exactly defines a valid mirror blocks puzzle should be defined, and this hasn't ever been done.


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## CubicOreo (Dec 12, 2019)

Kit Clement said:


> If Skewb is a shape mod though, then I think you can say that any 4 axis puzzle is a shape mod of a pyraminx, they just added some piece types compared to the original Pyraminx. Yes, there are sometimes modifications to how those pieces function, like centers having an orientation on a 3x3x3 shape mod, but the overall solving approach is the same. This is even less applicable to mirror blocks, and I don't think that it really adds anything to the current events other than ergonomic difficulty.
> 
> But to provide even more reasons to not add this event, my concerns center around what exactly defines a mirror blocks puzzle. To pose a few ideas:
> 
> ...


I suppose you’re right. You win.

Just to clarify: I didn’t believe skewb is a shape mod anymore in my previous post. I meant to talk about shape mods in general


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## Nathanael (Dec 12, 2019)

I just got a mirror block recently and I love it. would love for the event to be in the weekly competitons!


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 12, 2019)

I want to make sure everyone understands, because my original post here was originally improperly worded in one place - no more than 2 events will be added this year. Since it seems likely that more than two events will have enough votes to meet the minimum requirements, this becomes a race for the most votes - only the top 2 according to yes votes will be added. Fewer no votes will be used to break ties.


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Dec 12, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> I want to make sure everyone understands, because my original post here was originally improperly worded in one place - no more than 2 events will be added this year. Since it seems likely that more than two events will have enough votes to meet the minimum requirements, this becomes a race for the most votes - only the top 2 according to yes votes will be added. Fewer no votes will be used to break ties.


Am I correct in assuming that there are now 23 votes for this event?


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 12, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> Am I correct in assuming that there are now 23 votes for this event?


At this particular moment, yes - 23 votes for no restrictions, 16 votes for blind no inspection.


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Dec 12, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> At this particular moment, yes - 23 votes for no restrictions, 16 votes for blind no inspection.


gotcha


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 13, 2019)

12 days left! At the moment all 4 proposed new events have enough votes to be considered candidates for adding, so unless people change votes from Yes to No, it is now down to a race for the most votes.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 13, 2019)

11 days left!


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## Kit Clement (Dec 15, 2019)

9 days left!


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## Kit Clement (Dec 18, 2019)

Bump again, 7 days left!


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 19, 2019)

5 days left!


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## ProStar (Dec 21, 2019)

3 Days Left!


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