# Should I get an 11x11 or 9x9 cube?



## Lolwut12345 (Nov 25, 2012)

EDIT:

Okay guys I think this thread has run it's course, thanks for all the input.


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 25, 2012)

I have the Yuxin. It's been used a bit on the Dutch Open by various people, and it never popped. However I DO have to state that ALL cubes that I own have been taken apart, relubed and tensioned as the defaults usually suck bananas  So.. you might have to do that.

51morefun is legit, does not take Paypal though if you are wanting to use that.

The SS is out. You can order it. But not everywhere just yet. I have seen people get it on videos, so.. yeah it is out.

Note that when you buy such an expensive cube from outside the country you might have to deal with import fees which can get quite hefty (I did, ugh). 

Glow in the dark you can go to cubesmith. They have glow in the dark stickers. There is no glow in the dark out there that keeps glowing, nor is there one out there that has colors. If there is, I would love to hear about that!


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## InfiniCuber (Nov 25, 2012)

I do know that the ShengShou 9x9 is out, and you can get it at cubedepotusa.com or icubemart.com. Icubemart is cheaper though. I know that the Yuxin 11x11 can pop, but the 9x9 is pretty good at not popping. If you wanted to, you could speedcube the 9x9... as for the glow in the dark, i think Kattenvriendin above answered that.... 51morefun is legit too.... i would go with the 9x9 just because it wont pop as much if at all and the stores above (esp. icubemart.com) are having black friday thru cyber monday sales...


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## KrekZoWasHet (Nov 25, 2012)

I have the 11x11 too and it's quite a good cube. Not being a speedcuber (turning mostly slowly and carefully) I have little experience with popping, lubing and that stuff but the 11x11 seems solid to me and after 6-7 solves it turns even smoother than out of the box.


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## LNZ (Nov 26, 2012)

I do own both the SS9 and the 11x11 cube and they are both very good products. Both were obtained from 51morefun.com .

I live in Australia and because of the very good Australian dollar against the US dollar, they are not super costly.

I paid $105.15 AUD (including S/H) for the SS9 and $153.19 AUD (also including S/H) for the 11x11 cube.

And at the moment there is no GST payable on items brought online overseas under $1000 which are imported into Australia.


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## JHB (Nov 26, 2012)

The quick answer to your question is the 11x11 is quite a good cube, but ShengShous tend to be excellent. Now to elaborate:

*The Yuxin 11x11:* I have a Yuxin 11x11 and while it is a very good cube, a speedcuber may get nervous solving it. While it turns smoothly enough, the pieces don't necessarily move together well. This is not a criticism, but it seems as though the issue of cubie size versus functionality could not be reconciled. Simply put, the centre cubies are too small and the internal mechanisms, while similar to what we are currently seeing from "big cubes," don't handle it as well as one would hope- they shift around more than you would like. Not only this, but stickers come off all the time. Nevertheless, I really like it.

*The ShengShou 9x9:* I have nothing but praise for their cubes and I was especially pleased with the ShenShou 8x8. As soon as I can afford it, I'm getting the SS 9x9........................And now for a gratuitous rant: Of all the 9x9s on the market, my advice would be to stick with SS. Despite what some sellers tell you there are only 3 companies that make 9x9s as of 2012: *YJ*, *Shen Qi *and *ShengShou*. Sorry to all those people who purchased what they were told was a Yuxin 9x9 (contact Yuxin for more information). Some sellers are calling YJ 9x9s "Yuxin" so that they can get rid of them.....You could call it a Witlong and superglue the bugger together and the YJ it would still pop within 1 solve!

*51morefun: *I have used this website many times and they are fantastic. I know they have had their issues with PayPal, which means that you now can't pay via PayPal. Credit card payments are fine though; I've never had an issue. I will be buying my SS 9x9 with through them at Christmas.:tu

Sorry I can't help with the 3x3 question- I don't know anything about glow in the dark cubes except that sometimes I buy them by accident, then sit them on my bedside table, then try to go to sleep and....Hello


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 26, 2012)

Just FYI, the 11x11 is illeagal in the U.S. Verdes has gone to a huge effort to make this so. It is only legal in china. Should you bring one into the states, you are technically traffiking illegal goods.


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 26, 2012)

Yeah.. that includes all other big cubes too, including ShengShou, right?

Is it illegal in itself to OWN one, or is it illegal to COPY one?

The two are quite different.


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 26, 2012)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Yeah.. that includes all other big cubes too, including ShengShou, right?
> 
> Is it illegal in itself to OWN one, or is it illegal to COPY one?
> 
> The two are quite different.


No, just Yuxin. Verdes is still working on SS.
And yes, it is illegal to OWN one.


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## Lolwut12345 (Nov 26, 2012)

rubixwiz031 said:


> Just FYI, the 11x11 is illeagal in the U.S. Verdes has gone to a huge effort to make this so. It is only legal in china. Should you bring one into the states, you are technically traffiking illegal goods.



Why is it illegal to own a Yuxin 11x11 cube? Yuxin is the only company I'm even aware of who even make 11x11 cubes. So some jackass in the U.S. made the only 11x11 cube illegal.......... 

Well if you're correct, then I'm not going to be purchasing one. I'm not taking that risk and I'm also not spending over $100 dollars on a product that's illegal.

EDIT: What the heck is Verdes? Verdes = The company the makes V-cubes?

I don't understand why it's illegal for a company in China to make 11x11 cubes? Does Verdes have some fricken monopoly/intellectual property right over cubes or something? Wow this is really frustrating and disappointing that I can't get the 11x11 cube. That's definitely a big disappointment, was looking forward to a big cube for Christmas but I guess this news has killed that for me.

I'm looking at other threads on this site talking about "big cubes" and I hear lots of people say that cubes that are bigger than 7x7 are "knock offs." I don't understand how a cube can be a knock off, if it's a cube then it's a cube. What I don't understand is the legal reasoning behind this, are you honestly telling me that it's legal for a company in the United States to monopolize and set restrictions over a plastic cube?


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 26, 2012)

Lolwut12345 said:


> Why is it illegal to own a Yuxin 11x11 cube? Yuxin is the only company I'm even aware of who even make 11x11 cubes. So some jackass in the U.S. made the only 11x11 cube illegal..........
> 
> Well if you're correct, then I'm not going to be purchasing one. I'm not taking that risk and I'm also not spending over $100 dollars on a product that's illegal.
> 
> ...


Let me clarify. It is not illegal (yet) for the company to make the cubes. It is not illegal (yet) to have the cubes IN CHINA. What IS illegal is having the 11x11 in the U.S.
Regarding your questions about KO's: http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12721
That's a generally good rule to go by.
TLDR: Although Verdes (V-Cubes) have not released the V-Cubes larger than 7x7, they have filed patents for it, and gotten them approved. They have spent huge amounts of money on this, and people (Yuxin, ShengShou, YJ, LanLan, etc) have stolen their designs, cheaply put them into production, and sold them without giving credit/ royalties to Verdes.


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## Lolwut12345 (Nov 26, 2012)

rubixwiz031 said:


> Let me clarify. It is not illegal (yet) for the company to make the cubes. It is not illegal (yet) to have the cubes IN CHINA. What IS illegal is having the 11x11 in the U.S.
> Regarding your questions about KO's: http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12721
> That's a generally good rule to go by.
> TLDR: Although Verdes (V-Cubes) have not released the V-Cubes larger than 7x7, they have filed patents for it, and gotten them approved. They have spent huge amounts of money on this, and people (Yuxin, ShengShou, YJ, LanLan, etc) have stolen their designs, cheaply put them into production, and sold them without giving credit/ royalties to Verdes.



Yes I understand that in China these products are not illegal, however in the United States they are and I'm in the United States.

But I'm confused now because just a second ago in your last post you said that the ShengShou 9x9 is not illegal yet. So are the Shengshou 9x9's illegal or not to own in the U.S.?

Yeah so Verdes basically put a patent on products that they don't even make (8x8 all through 11x11 they have patents on even though they don't make cubes these sizes).

Also if these products are illegal how come so many people have them? I mean you can go on Ebay (I'm assuming all the 11x11's there are Yuxin cubes since they look exactly like them), go on YouTube and you see a ton of people have the Yuxin 11x11 cubes.


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## BlueDevil (Nov 26, 2012)

Seriously, don't worry about legality. If you want to avoid customs, just order from stores within the US. I'm pretty sure icubemart has both the cubes you are interested in.


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 26, 2012)

Lolwut12345 said:


> Yes I understand that in China these products are not illegal, however in the United States they are and I'm in the United States.
> 
> But I'm confused now because just a second ago in your last post you said that the ShengShou 9x9 is not illegal yet. So are the Shengshou 9x9's illegal or not to own in the U.S.?
> 
> ...


ShengShou's are legal. However, they are still KO's and stealing from Verdes


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## Isaac Paurus (Nov 26, 2012)

Lolwut12345 said:


> EDIT:
> 
> Nevermind not buying a 9x9 or an 11x11 cube because some company (Verdes) in the United States decided to make it illegal to own 9x9 and 11x11 cubes made by other companies.
> 
> I'm seriously thinking about writing hate mail to Verdes, telling them that they ruined my Christmas (apparently they put patents on products they don't even manufacture............) I know it's immature, but I'm just really disappointed right now. I was looking forward to having a big cube but I guess this news of legality totally ruined it for me.



It's ILLEGAL now??? What??


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 26, 2012)

Isaac Paurus said:


> It's ILLEGAL now??? What??


It's always been illegal.


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 26, 2012)

Also, just to clarify, it is NOT illegal to own a ShengShou 9x9. It IS illegal to own a Yuxin 11x11, or any other type of 11x11. However, owning a ShengShou 9x9 is still stealing from Verdes, even if not directly.


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## CarlBrannen (Nov 27, 2012)

As far as I can tell, Verdes has never won a patent lawsuit in the US. If I'm wrong about this, please give me a link. Google is our buddy here.

It is not the job of consumers to determine which products infringe on which patents. (Note I use the word "infringe" not "illegal".) It is the job of the patent owner to enforce his patents. When the patent owner fails to do this, the only conclusion a consumer can make is that there is no patent infringement. Patents are complicated things and are difficult for people to understand. As consumers, we do not have, in general, the skills of determining whether a product is infinging or not. Hey, if we buy a purse that usually goes for $10,000 for only $20 we can be pretty sure we've bought an infringing item, but that's probably a trademark infringement, not a patent infringement like we're talking about here. These are complicated things determined by incredibly complicated trials that take many years.

I've read the Verdes patent. I own a Sheng Shou 7x7x7. I have read the Verdes patent carefully and I do not believe Verdes would be successful in an infringement claim against that puzzle. I don't own any larger cube so I can't comment on them. But if you are a lawyer and you read the Verdes patent, I think that you will agree with me that it is *not* a very broad patent. My opinion is that its scope is very narrow. If you don't understand how the "claims" in a patent work and you're worried about this, consult a patent attorney. Show him the patent. Pay him $500 and get an opinion on it. Share it with us.

From the point of view of a consumer in buying a large cube, it is silly to imagine that there is any risk in buying a large cube. If your large cube does turn out to violate a patent, what do you think the patent holder is going to do? Sue you? For what, about 15% of the price of the puzzle??? Even filing a lawsuit against you would cost far more than the amount that could be made by collecting on that lawsuit. You are completely safe in buying these puzzles. You are not a "deep pockets" target. If you think I'm wrong in this, google around and find an example of where a consumer spent $90 on a toy and then got into trouble for patent infringement. Go ahead. It's at least possible that there are some cases where consumers got into trouble for "trademark" infringement (where, for example, you buy a purse that is made to look like it was manufactured by a different company than the one that made it) , but I've never seen any and that's not what we're talking about here. Try googling "patent infringement against buyer" to find plenty of examples of this language in sales agreements for high dollar equipment but none of us have ever signed such an agreement when buying a toy over the internet.

In the unlikely event that the WCA decides to start a 9x9x9 puzzle competition you can be almost certain (based on previous experience) that they will not enforce 3rd party patents against prospective competitors. It's not their job. If Verdes feels that their patents are being infringed they can file the appropriate lawsuits. An individual who bought a cube is not going to be named in these lawsuits. If you think otherwise, please google around and find an example of where people were sued for buying an infringing toy.

I would really like to know more about this, please help me by googling for these examples of patent infringement by consumers.


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## Isaac Paurus (Nov 27, 2012)

rubixwiz031 said:


> It's always been illegal.



I meant its illegal to have one in the US?


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 27, 2012)

Isaac Paurus said:


> I meant its illegal to have one in the US?


Yup it's trafficking illegal goods


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 27, 2012)

CarlBrannen said:


> As far as I can tell, Verdes has never won a patent lawsuit in the US. If I'm wrong about this, please give me a link. Google is our buddy here.
> 
> It is not the job of consumers to determine which products infringe on which patents. (Note I use the word "infringe" not "illegal".) It is the job of the patent owner to enforce his patents. When the patent owner fails to do this, the only conclusion a consumer can make is that there is no patent infringement. Patents are complicated things and are difficult for people to understand. As consumers, we do not have, in general, the skills of determining whether a product is infinging or not. Hey, if we buy a purse that usually goes for $10,000 for only $20 we can be pretty sure we've bought an infringing item, but that's probably a trademark infringement, not a patent infringement like we're talking about here. These are complicated things determined by incredibly complicated trials that take many years.
> 
> ...


Not proof, but my source: (scroll to the bottom)
http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16116&p=197346&hilit=trafficking#p197346


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## CarlBrannen (Nov 27, 2012)

Thanks rubixwiz031, but what I'm looking for is a Court Opinion. Here's a sample "Judgement" on an infringement case:
http://www.med.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Hornby/1996/dbh_2-95cv415_wheela_v_longwood_doc01_dec.pdf

I know of no such judgement which involves Verdes. I'll keep looking, but I've got to get some homework done that is due tomorrow.

Yeah, that's just the expession of a personal opinion on the Twisty Puzzles website. I believe there are no links to any Verdes infringement court opinions because I believe they do not exist. And hey, I just expressed my own personal opinion (no infringement, at least for the 7x7x7) above. You don't need to assume either of us is correct because, as a consumer buying a cheap toy, you're under no risk whatsoever.

Ethically, if you can determine that a product infringes, you may convince yourself that you have a moral obligation to not buy it. Howevrer, you should consider the possibility that you do not understand the law deeply enough to determine whether or not that product infringes. If you're buying a Rolex (tm) watch for $50 you can make that determination pretty easily. With twisty puzzles it may not be so easy for you to make that determination. Going to law school and learning how to read Claims is going to be very expensive.


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## Isaac Paurus (Nov 27, 2012)

rubixwiz031 said:


> Yup it's trafficking illegal goods



Haha that actually kind of amusing. Could you get arrested for an 11x11? I'm pretty sure the judge would be amused too haha


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 27, 2012)

Ok so I emailed Dave (DLitwin on TwistyPuzzles, and the guy who made that post I linked earlier) about a link to the court case. i'll report back.


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## Isaac Paurus (Nov 27, 2012)

I feel kinda BA for having an ILLEGAL cube 0.o


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## heavypoly6 (Nov 27, 2012)

So much cubing drama.


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## LarryLunchmeat (Nov 27, 2012)

Ah, the age old V-cube/knockoff argument...
All I have to say about that is if Verdes doesn't want other companies to make knockoffs, he shouldn't build inferior (IMO) cubes and sell them for double the price. It's a no-brainer in my books

Lolwut12345 about the legality of owning a "knockoff" cube, don't worry about it. I own plenty of "knockoff" cubes and trust me.. Nobody cares.
As for which one to buy, I recommend the Shengshou 9X9. It's not quite the perfect cube that some reviewers have made it out to be, (again, IMO) but it is a very solid cube. As for the 11X11, it's cool to have as a head turner and a really long solve every once in a while, but it lacks a little bit on the build quality. Not saying that it's bad but I find that the alignment a major problem and it actually holds me back on a solve having to realign every row when I want to change axis' when turning. And whether I tighten or loosen the screws, the inside layers always seem to have quite a loose feeling. I think this loose center thing is the main cause for lockups as the pieces always get hung up on each other since they're not nice and tight (like a Shengshou). Maybe I'll just wait for Shengshou to release a "knockoff" 11X11.


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## qqwref (Nov 27, 2012)

I think the whole knockoff/illegal debate is pretty silly when talking about 8x8x8+ cubes. Let's look at the facts: Verdes hasn't mass-produced, or even shown they have made any serious progress towards mass-producing, any of these cubes; and yet other companies are doing this very thing. There is no real V-cube they are reverse-engineering and copying, and none of the 8x8x8+ cubes claim they are produced by V-cubes, or are even sold with similar packaging. This is not a "knockoff" in the traditional sense, and has very little relation to the cheap Gucci or Rolex replicas that people typically think of when they hear that word. It might be patent infringement - but who am I to judge? I'm not a lawyer and I don't know exactly what parts of the patent are required for infringement to occur, and I certainly don't know what was changed in the mechanisms, if anything. 

What I do know is that these companies have made good higher-order cubes available where there weren't any before, and sometimes their cubes are of a quality that are superior to what I think V-cube would produce anyway (compare SS8 and V-6). As a speedcuber I'm a lot more interested in having a high-quality cube now than an unknown-quality cube someday. Sure, I could see that from a cube producer's side it's very annoying to have competing cubes with mechanisms similar to your own. But what money are you losing when someone takes a design you aren't even producing, many years after you promised you would start, and makes it available?


Note that some types of 7x7x7 and lower brands do piggyback off the V-cube brand by using similar cube designs, similar names and sometimes even similar packaging. I don't support this and I wouldn't encourage buying those brands. There is a big difference between "a different brand of cube with arguably similar internals" and "a Chinese copy of the original intended to fool you into buying it".


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 27, 2012)

I didn't mean to start talking about KO's. I simply stated how one particular product is illegal, by law, in the U.S. (and all other countries in the world except china)


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## antoineccantin (Nov 27, 2012)

For sure you can buy the SS 9x9 100% safe.


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## qqwref (Nov 27, 2012)

rubixwiz031 said:


> I simply stated how one particular product is illegal, by law, in the U.S.


Unfortunately there is nothing "simple" about international patent law.


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 27, 2012)

heavypoly6 said:


> So much cubing drama.



ROFL yeah. I will go to the store this afternoon and buy some black sheet, that way I can put a bar over my Yuxin's eyes so people cannot recognize it on the street


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## rahulkadukar (Nov 27, 2012)

You guys are so serious about the whole legality of owning a 11x11x11.

Frankly, nobody gives a f*** except Verdes. Even if he does find you with a 11x11x11 I am sure you can knock him out if he tries to take the cube away from you


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## Isaac Paurus (Nov 27, 2012)

rahulkadukar said:


> You guys are so serious about the whole legality of owning a 11x11x11.
> 
> Frankly, nobody gives a f*** except Verdes. Even if he does find you with a 11x11x11 I am sure you can knock him out if he tries to take the cube away from you


Hahaha true


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## Antcuber (Nov 27, 2012)

Is it only illegal in the US?

This whole thing is total bs though. Verdes is blocking us from getting good quality cubes for lower quality ones that he hasn't even produced yet.

I hope he knows how much the cubing community hates him and his descisions.


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 27, 2012)

Antcuber said:


> Is it only illegal in the US?
> 
> This whole thing is total bs though. Verdes is blocking us from getting good quality cubes for lower quality ones that he hasn't even produced yet.
> 
> I hope he knows how much the cubing community hates him and his descisions.


Nope, its illegal everywhere except china.


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## cubeone (Nov 27, 2012)

rubixwiz031 said:


> Nope, its illegal everywhere except china.


Then how did crazybadcuber have one? Was it before the patent, or did he have it illegally? Also, why is icubemart selling them? (They're out of stock now, but they are on the website.)


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## rubixwiz031 (Nov 27, 2012)

cubeone said:


> Then how did crazybadcuber have one? Was it before the patent, or did he have it illegally? Also, why is icubemart selling them? (They're out of stock now, but they are on the website.)


it is not hard to get one.


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## Kattenvriendin (Nov 27, 2012)

I got one off of ebay.

You can them at 51morefun or what that store is called.

It's not hard. Really.


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## PatrickJameson (Nov 27, 2012)

http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/the-legality-of-buying-knockoffs/

After reading this and a few other articles the conclusion seems to be that, morality issues aside, you are fine buying knockoffs. Just don't sell them. This also follows common sense pretty well. (If you are in the US, at least)


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## InfiniCuber (Nov 28, 2012)

PatrickJameson said:


> http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/the-legality-of-buying-knockoffs/
> 
> After reading this and a few other articles the conclusion seems to be that, morality issues aside, you are fine buying knockoffs. Just don't sell them. This also follows common sense pretty well. (If you are in the US, at least)



Ya i read this article. Pretty much, a knockoff is not illegal, since it does not have symbols or labels that are exactly the same (counterfeit) and just resemble the original. These are legal to buy. It is also legal to buy counterfeit goods, but illegal to sell them, unlike what you said above, you can sell knockoffs, just not counterfeit. So, in conclusion:
IT IS OK TO BUY KNOCKOFF CUBES SO STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT!!!! IF IT IS A COUNTERFEIT THEN DON'T! BUT SERIOUSLY YOU HAVE TO BE A LAW STUDENT IF YOU ARE GOING TO UNDERSTAND IF IT IS ILLEGAL OR NOT (if you're picky) SO IT IS OK PEOPLE!!


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## RNewms27 (Nov 28, 2012)

rubixwiz031 said:


> It's illegal.



Even if this is true, please don't spread panic like this. This is not TP and they have their own bias for original designers that most of us do not have. 
The 11x11 is a great puzzle and ordering one from the U.S. to a U.S. resident is perfectly safe.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 28, 2012)

Just because you can't get punished for something doesn't make it right. If it's illegal to sell it, it's not ethical to buy it, thereby encouraging more illegal activity.


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## InfiniCuber (Nov 28, 2012)

sneaklyfox said:


> Just because you can't get punished for something doesn't make it right. If it's illegal to sell it, it's not ethical to buy it, thereby encouraging more illegal activity.



It is only illegal to sell counterfeits. You can buy and sell knockoffs without any problems


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## CarlBrannen (Nov 29, 2012)

It's just as illegal to buy as it is to sell knock-offs. But a $90 knock off children's toy is unlikely to cause any legal problems for you. By "unlikely" I mean "it's not going to happen". On the other hand, if you buy a knock-off piece of industrial equipment for $30,000,000 you're setting yourself up for legal excitement.

My point is that from a practical point of view, it's not possible for an amateur to determine whether most of these cubes are knock-offs or not. Because of that, your liability in buying them is quite small. That is, they can't sue you for more than the royalty. That would be something like $15 on a $90 puzzle and that's not enough to pay for a lawyer.

A lot of people have gotten in big trouble for stealing music using bit torrent and stuff like that. The reason you can get into trouble that way is because it is blatantly illegal so if you lose a lawsuit you may have to pay punitive damages. But when the lawyers come after you with a puzzle, they can't sue you for more than the amount owed in royalties. And since Verdes hasn't sold any 11x11s, how can they even figure out the damages? It's just not possible for them to make money suing people who could not possibly have been aware that what they were buying was infringing on a (seriously complicated and difficult to understand) patent. There wouldn't be any punitive damages and the actual damages wouldn't be enough to pay for a single legal letter.


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## InfiniCuber (Nov 29, 2012)

CarlBrannen said:


> It's just as illegal to buy as it is to sell knock-offs. But a $90 knock off children's toy is unlikely to cause any legal problems for you. By "unlikely" I mean "it's not going to happen". On the other hand, if you buy a knock-off piece of industrial equipment for $30,000,000 you're setting yourself up for legal excitement.
> 
> My point is that from a practical point of view, it's not possible for an amateur to determine whether most of these cubes are knock-offs or not. Because of that, your liability in buying them is quite small. That is, they can't sue you for more than the royalty. That would be something like $15 on a $90 puzzle and that's not enough to pay for a lawyer.
> 
> A lot of people have gotten in big trouble for stealing music using bit torrent and stuff like that. The reason you can get into trouble that way is because it is blatantly illegal. So when the lawyers come after you, they can't sue you for more than the amount. And since Verdes hasn't sold any 11x11s, how can they even figure out the damages? It's just not possible for them to make money suing people who could not possibly have been aware that what they were buying was infringing on a (seriously complicated and difficult to understand) patent. There wouldn't be any punitive damages and the actual damages wouldn't be enough to pay for a single legal letter.



I agree. What I meant was you really aren't gonna get in trouble over a CUBE. Then it is pretty much SAFE (ya thats what i meant... wow im a slow thinker..) to sell and buy...


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