# Color Neutral Persons: How do you choose your cross?



## jskyler91 (Dec 22, 2011)

I have been fully color neutral for over six months (yes I mean completely color neutral i.e. no I do not have any color baises) and I am still struggling with this question. I have always thought that if I just practiced finding the best cross that I would just get faster at it and eventually be able to find it, plan it, find my first pair (I always try to do this in inspection if possible), and find a good way to finger it; but here I am six months later and I still find it difficult to do this all within the 12 seconds I have to inspect. This is not to say that I can't do it, I can normally do all of this about half of the time, but I often run into these problems/issues:

1. Doing all of this is stressful and makes you feel jittery (maybe just me) during and shortly after the inspection (lookahead suffers).

2. The time spent finding the best cross could be spent solidifying your cross and first f2l piece.

3. It can turn out to be a complete waste of time if you inspect the entire cube and can't find a cross to go with (I normally default to blue). 

4. Sometimes you will start with one cross and then find a better one midway through your memo and you either loose track of your cross or have to start over with the other cross.

My current method for choosing a cross goes something like this:

1. Pick up cube
2. Inspect front, right and left crosses, 
3. Quickly survey other three
4. Choose the cross that either JUMPS OUT at me or seems easiest/most finger trick friendly 
5. Memo cross so that I can do it bld
6. Figure out which faces my cross effects
7. Find corner that seems to be least effected and find its ending position
8. Find the corresponding edge
9. Put down cube in way that fists finger tricks
10. Solve cross
11. Track edge as I solve
12. Solve rest of cube

Do any other color neutral solvers out there have a method for choosing their cross they wouldn't mind sharing? I listed some of the other ways to find crosses in the poll (I have used pretty much all of these at one point and still often use some), but I would like to hear some novel ways if you have any. Thanks in advance for your help.


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## HelpCube (Dec 22, 2011)

I usually look around for edges that are already in their correct spot, and do my cross on one of the two sides the edge is on. If there are none, I look for edges "attached" to one of their centers but not the other, and find a cross from there.


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## jskyler91 (Dec 22, 2011)

HelpCube said:


> I usually look around for edges that are already in their correct spot, and do my cross on one of the two sides the edge is on. If there are none, I look for edges "attached" to one of their centers but not the other, and find a cross from there.


 
Yeah, I guess I kind of do that too, I also just realized that I subconsciously try to look for oriented edges seeing as they can get to their proper position in only two moves max.


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## Kirjava (Dec 22, 2011)

I don't really think about it much. Do whatever looks nice.


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## GearGuy57 (Dec 22, 2011)

I find the side with the most pieces that can easily be solved. i only take about 5 sec. to inspect


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## 5BLD (Dec 22, 2011)

I quickly scan all blocks within my colour scheme, finding all their solutions then pick the one with fastest fingertricks or lower movecount


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## HelpCube (Dec 22, 2011)

5BLD said:


> I quickly scan all blocks within my colour scheme, finding all their solutions then pick the one with fastest fingertricks or lower movecount


 
You can find the solution for every block in 15 seconds?? Geez.


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## kirtpro (Dec 22, 2011)

first i look for a cross preferably with a fingertrick friendly solution
i then think about if it's possible to preserve a pair or make one
if i think finding a pair is difficult i try out the next best color
i then decide which i want


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## Kirjava (Dec 22, 2011)

5BLD said:


> I quickly scan all blocks within my colour scheme, finding all their solutions then pick the one with fastest fingertricks or lower movecount


 
I don't see why you'd check solutions on obviously bad blocks.


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## emolover (Dec 22, 2011)

I first look for any cross and use it as my "safe cross" if I can't find others.

Then I look for any other easier crosses.

If I have time I look for a corner to track during cross solving. (I suck at Turbo-Tracking)

Then I pause during transition because I suck at that.


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## CubicNL (Dec 22, 2011)

I look around for a colour with 2 pieces already in their correct permution+orientation.
If there is no colour with that setup, I basically pick any colour that seems nice.
So I don't really have a set method like you have.


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## TheMachanga (Dec 22, 2011)

I just look for edges already attached to their center. Then after I find a cross, if I still have time, I look for other crosses just in case it's easier than the original, knowing that if it's not, I already know what I'm going to do.


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## 5BLD (Dec 22, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> I don't see why you'd check solutions on obviously bad blocks.


You caught me there.
I meant of course blocks that had decent squares at least 

edit: Just in case you're gonna catch me out again, I'd additionally like to say yes, that's right, I don't always start with squares. 

So in addition to my post, obviously, if I see an easy block even if it doesn't use my regular strategy, I go for it. The solve may fail but at least I'm exploring new ways of solving.


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## timelonade (Dec 22, 2011)

I usually try to do the same as everyone else and find some correctly positioned pieces, if not then I'll just go for whatever side has the most correctly oriented pieces, place my cross colour on D then try to make it as R U L D as possible, using cross piece insertions like Roux would for second block (with (R'M) and (RM')) which allows me to have a look at any corners sat around on my top layer.
Sorta hard to explain.

Failing this I'll just try to find an optimal cross, I can't do X-Cross, but if I see an F2L pair lined up I'll make my cross take more moves if it means I conserve it.

*shrug*


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## Kirjava (Dec 22, 2011)

I see the 1x2x3 as similar to the 2x2x2 in petrus. I never really rely on a 'system' for solving it - just try and do what's best for each case. I still discover new things for the first block these days.

lolz we turned it into a roux thread.


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## timelonade (Dec 22, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> I see the 1x2x3 as similar to the 2x2x2 in petrus. I never really rely on a 'system' for solving it - just try and do what's best for each case. I still discover new things for the first block these days.
> 
> lolz we turned it into a roux thread.


 

Is it just as easy to be CN with Roux? I am Roux n00b but deviating from my beloved Red, white, blue makes solves hellish ;(


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## 5BLD (Dec 22, 2011)

timelonade said:


> Is it just as easy to be CN with Roux? I am Roux n00b but deviating from my beloved Red, white, blue makes solves hellish ;(


 
Well it's very hard to change once you've done your blocks for a while. 
I'm white yellow on U/D colour neutral, so 8 blocks. Thom is white yellow on L/R colour neutral, so also 8 blocks as well, and it's useful. And there's no difficulty at all. But I have serious problems with using Thom's colour scheme. Except my LSE is faster, which is just weird.

anyway point is, you'll find it easy if you do it early on.


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## Athefre (Dec 22, 2011)

I look for any white or yellow edge already connected to the center. If both white and yellow have edges, I pick the side that has the least pieces paired in the wrong way then plan a 1x2x2 and the final pair. If I have time, I see if the other pair for the 1x2x2 is easier. Even though I sometimes forget what color I'm supposed to solve on R, I can't resist the urge to have the variety that the eight possibilities provide.


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## Robocopter87 (Dec 22, 2011)

I personally think you are thinking about it too much. A cross is a cross is a cross. I just scan for a cross that has some *correctly* corresponding pieces and find its other pieces and just roll with it. 

But, in the event that none of the crosses work I just kinda pick a color and wing it.

So yeah, I don't put a lot of thought into it, it gets easier to spot them with practice.


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## 5BLD (Dec 22, 2011)

You can never think about it 'too much', you have 15 seconds of inspection, make the most of it.
If you can plan out the first square in 3 secs, plan the whole first block, if you can do that in 3 secs, plan out the second block, or as I do, plan out others and see whether they are good.

If you've still got those all with 10 secs left, why not plan how you're going to fingertrick them?


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## Eppley12 (Dec 22, 2011)

I look for the easiest looking cross then find the solution and track the easiest looking edge and corner pair.


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## tx789 (Dec 22, 2011)

I look for cross pieces and see paired f2l slots


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## cubersmith (Dec 22, 2011)

I look for the most pieces which probably isn't the best thing to do.


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## Schmidt (Dec 22, 2011)

> (yes I mean completely color neutral i.e. no I do not have any color baises)





> (I normally default to blue).



I do not live in an English speaking country, so could you please tell me the difference between baises and default.

For CN, it depends on the situation. I normally take the one with the most correct pieces on one side. So if there is 3 blue on green side , I make blue cross, but if there is 3 blue on red I look for something else.


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## jskyler91 (Dec 22, 2011)

Schmidt said:


> I do not live in an English speaking country, so could you please tell me the difference between baises and default.
> 
> For CN, it depends on the situation. I normally take the one with the most correct pieces on one side. So if there is 3 blue on green side , I make blue cross, but if there is 3 blue on red I look for something else.


 
Baises mean I prefer or do better on a particular color, default means I make it my backup cross in case there aren't any good crosses that way I don't spend too much time frantically trying to find a cross. 

Thanks for your input guys, it seems that many of you do basically what I do, but possibly faster. I really like Emolover's safe cross idea, I used to do something like this, but for some reason I stopped and I think it took away some of the stress to have at least 1 cross planned. Oh, btw I also plan out all crosses too 5BLD, it is good to see that others do this too, because i was worried I might be wasting time. I think the cross is your key to a good solve, if you have a good cross everything else flows. 

I am also curious how long it takes you, on average to find, plan out and finger trick your cross? If you could do a breakdown that would be awesome. My breakdown looks something like this:

Find cross: 2-3 seconds
Plan cross: 3 seconds
Finger cross: 3 seconds
Find first pair/preserve pair: 2 seconds

Total time including first pair: 10-11 seconds

This is for a moderate cross, however, some crosses take a bit longer and I can't even begin to find my first pair. Thanks again.


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## Akash Rupela (Dec 23, 2011)

@Jskyler91, I m not color neutral, but thanks for this thread, I m really a fan of(inspired by) how fast you have improved and how you look at everything in such an organised manner. Personally, as my cross is slower than my oll and pll(execution wise in time, not just tps), I would mention all those people who just do the cross without thinking that much are a bit lazy(dont mind Feliks , i know you have practiced too much to get to a stage where u dont need that much inspection). Almost all the time, i find the optimal cross in 2-3 seconds(or maybe 1-2 more) , think a little about the starting grip and start solving it. And I know, my cross is slow, only because I was too lazy to stress out that much in every solve. Of course, I will be doing this now. And In any form of art, an extra push is needed to break the plateau, with repeated forced stressing, I m sure anyone can keep improving at the cross until he becomes very good at it. As Kirjava says, after some time intuitive f2l becomes algorithmic, same is the case here. One must constantly be using majority of his inspection time, efficient hand movements, nice finger tricks, and patient look ahead, for a great solve ! (All this is my opinion, i am no one to state facts)


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## jskyler91 (Dec 23, 2011)

Akash Rupela said:


> @Jskyler91, I m not color neutral, but thanks for this thread, I m really a fan of(inspired by) how fast you have improved and how you look at everything in such an organised manner. Personally, as my cross is slower than my oll and pll(execution wise in time, not just tps), I would mention all those people who just do the cross without thinking that much are a bit lazy(dont mind Feliks , i know you have practiced too much to get to a stage where u dont need that much inspection). Almost all the time, i find the optimal cross in 2-3 seconds(or maybe 1-2 more) , think a little about the starting grip and start solving it. And I know, my cross is slow, only because I was too lazy to stress out that much in every solve. Of course, I will be doing this now. And In any form of art, an extra push is needed to break the plateau, with repeated forced stressing, I m sure anyone can keep improving at the cross until he becomes very good at it. As Kirjava says, after some time intuitive f2l becomes algorithmic, same is the case here. One must constantly be using majority of his inspection time, efficient hand movements, nice finger tricks, and patient look ahead, for a great solve ! (All this is my opinion, i am no one to state facts)


 
Thank you for the support and advice Akash  I see you have also been improving quite fast!!! I would really recommend that if you want to make the change to color neutrality that you do it now before you become to set in your ways. You don't have to change of course, but I think it will increase your overall potential if you do. THe way I look at cubing is like this: if I am going to waste a huge amount of time learning an almost completely useless skill, I might as well strive to be the best at it that I can be. This means not being stubborn or lazy on learning things that are hard and not wasting my time learning things that aren't useful.


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## ottozing (Dec 23, 2011)

i look for the cross with most edges either solved/alligned with their centres, solved but not alligned with there side centres or in the same relative position to eachother but not alligned with any centers or their cross center (only for when their opposites, using this aproach for adjacent edges is inefficient and slow). then i plan the rest of the cross accordingly.


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## jskyler91 (Dec 23, 2011)

ottozing said:


> i look for the cross with most edges either solved/alligned with their centres, solved but not alligned with there side centres or in the same relative position to eachother but not alligned with any centers or their cross center (only for when their opposites, using this aproach for adjacent edges is inefficient and slow). then i plan the rest of the cross accordingly.


 
This is the easiest way, but I feel like many of those crosses can actually be longer to execute and harder to fingertrick.


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## Genesis (Dec 23, 2011)

I look for F2L pairs and see which one's more fingertricky if there isn't any, I just look for a half done cross


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## Faz (Dec 23, 2011)

I don't really know how I pick a side, it just happens. I don't follow a formula or anything

Basically, I just scan the cube, check a few sides, and look for pairs, and just pick a side which looks easy.


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## jskyler91 (Dec 23, 2011)

fazrulz said:


> I don't really know how I pick a side, it just happens. I don't follow a formula or anything
> 
> Basically, I just scan the cube, check a few sides, and look for pairs, and just pick a side which looks easy.


 
When you say pairs, do you mean f2l pairs? As in you are looking for the start to an x-cross? or are you just looking for the cross that has edge pieces on it? Do you always look at all sides or do you just go with the first decent cross you see?


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## ottozing (Dec 23, 2011)

jskyler91 said:


> This is the easiest way, but I feel like many of those crosses can actually be longer to execute and harder to fingertrick.



i agree that it isnt the best way to plan a cross but i find it to be decently fast. my crosses are never more then eight moves and usualy decent to finger trick. plus because its so easy to plan this way i can usually track my first pair.


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