# Square-One Scrambles



## Wylie28 (Oct 18, 2014)

How can I generate square one scrambles? I cant just generate numbers inside the parenthesis because this can happen /(2,0)/ which cannot be Executed from the solved state. Is there some sort of equation that can be used to figure out how many numbers need to be put in the parenthesis for it to be able to slice?


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## qqwref (Oct 18, 2014)

You have to keep track of where the corners are, and make sure to only do (x,y) moves that still allow you to do a /. Of course this is just for the old "generate random moves" scrambler. The newer ones generate a random position and then solve it, which is of course much more complicated.


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## Wylie28 (Oct 19, 2014)

qqwref said:


> You have to keep track of where the corners are, and make sure to only do (x,y) moves that still allow you to do a /. Of course this is just for the old "generate random moves" scrambler. The newer ones generate a random position and then solve it, which is of course much more complicated.



I know what random state is I hate practicing with them for 2 reasons, the first is generating them kills battery very quickly and they are, on average, much easier than the ones I generate with my app. I average 16.xx (on 3x3) with the random state ones and I average 18.71 with the ones I generate on my app. Although I did make my scramble generator with hard scrambles in mind. (I have no ability to judge the "hardess" of a scamble besides the time it took to solve because everything but the cross is influenced with your solution so far)
and yes I know not all states have equal chance unless you use random state, but how can you predict if the easier ones or the harder ones have the higher chance?


Im new to square one so I don't even understand it enough to make random state scrambles so I might try this. Ill do 10/15 (x,x) / that retains cube shape and then ill tack on a few (x,x) / that turns it into a randomly selected shape. (which ill have pre-defined (x,x)/ to get there) Now all I need is some sort of tree thing that shows how to get from a cube shape to all the different shapes or maybe a list of optimal solutions that I could reverse. Do you know where I could find something like that?


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Oct 19, 2014)

Wylie28 said:


> I know what random state is I hate practicing with them for 2 reasons, the first is generating them kills battery very quickly and they are, on average, much easier than the ones I generate with my app. I average 16.xx with the random state ones and I average 18.71 with the ones I generate on my app. Although I did make my scramble generator with hard scrambles in mind. (I have no ability to judge the "hardess" of a scamble besides the time it took to solve because everything but the cross is influenced with your solution so far)
> and yes I know not all states have equal chance unless you use random state, but how can you predict if the easier ones or the harder ones have the higher chance?
> 
> 
> Im new to square one so I don't even understand it enough to make random state scrambles so I might try this. Ill do 10/15 (x,x) / that retains cube shape and then ill tack on a few (x,x) / that turns it into a randomly selected shape. (which ill have pre-defined (x,x)/ to get there) Now all I need is some sort of tree thing that shows how to get from a cube shape to all the different shapes or maybe a list of optimal solutions that I could reverse. Do you know where I could find something like that?



Random state would usually give harder scrambles compared to random moves, unless you're somehow forcing difficult scrambles but I have no idea how that would work.

As for the other idea, having a fixed way of getting to each shape means you will likely solve each shape the same way every time you get it. That means that for any shape you will consistently get/avoid parity every time for that shape (e.g. if you do the obvious 1 move to scramble to kite/kite every time you will solve it with that same move and never get parity for that case), which is not a good idea.


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## qqwref (Oct 19, 2014)

Wylie28 said:


> I know what random state is I hate practicing with them for 2 reasons, the first is generating them kills battery very quickly and they are, on average, much easier than the ones I generate with my app.


So wait, you already have an app that generates scrambles? Why are you asking then? And generally random state is the standard, so if your scrambles are harder than random state, you'll just have to accept that you will be getting higher times than you should. On the other hand, random moves are generally easier than random state, so you would be getting lower times than you should if you use that.



Wylie28 said:


> Im new to square one


and you have a 16 average? lol



Wylie28 said:


> so I don't even understand it enough to make random state scrambles so I might try this. Ill do 10/15 (x,x) / that retains cube shape and then ill tack on a few (x,x) / that turns it into a randomly selected shape. (which ill have pre-defined (x,x)/ to get there) Now all I need is some sort of tree thing that shows how to get from a cube shape to all the different shapes or maybe a list of optimal solutions that I could reverse. Do you know where I could find something like that?


No no no, that will not do. Any moves that retain cube shape will keep the puzzle in a no-parity state. Then, if you do a specific alg to get to a shape, if you solve the shape the same way every time, you will either always get parity on that shape, or never get parity on that shape. And, if you solve the shape by just inverting that alg, you will never get parity. Obviously this means solves will be way easier than they should be.

FWIW, though, here is Jaap's cube shape diagram. There are many ways to move closer to solved from each shape.


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## Wylie28 (Oct 19, 2014)

Well first of all the 16.xx and 18.61 were 3x3 I should have specified. (I got my first square one like 3 days ago I haven't really timed my self much yet, I think I average 1:30)
The way I produce my scrambles for most of cubes is generate 20 moves (more for larger cubes 20*(layers-2) ) using a different major axis everytime. I easily do 2x more solves on my phone using my scrambler than on my computer using a random state one so obviously im gonna be a little slower there but I dont think more solves will end up giving me an average 2 seconds longer.

And bobthegirrafemonkey/qqwref (something like that lol) I see your point so ill guess I will have to find a random state scrambler for square one until Im able to make one myself

Where is this data that shows that random moves scrambles are EASIER anyway? All ive read about is them not having an equal chance for each state, where is the data that says the higher chances are the easy states?


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## Lucas Garron (Oct 19, 2014)

Since there are many random-state scramblers for Square-1 available (Prisma, qqTimer, TNoodle, and a bunch on iOS/Android), you should not take a step backwards and write a worse one for yourself.
As others on this thread have argued, this is not going to give you representative scrambles, especially for Square-1.

If battery power is the main issue, here are some ideas:

- Talk to the maintainer of the app you're using. Maybe they're doing a lot of pre-generating/filtering, and could introduce an option to reduce that. (plusTimer already disables scramble filtering)
- Generate yourself a few hundred scrambles using TNoodle on your computer, and print them out/put them somewhere on your phone.


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