# 3BLD Buffer



## rezaqorbani (May 16, 2014)

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Top 60 Single:
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RQWcuEd4pWL7egwQ00zuJDzYCKzQC6hlAdz0DH4jwWk/edit?usp=sharing


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## RayLam (May 16, 2014)

Hey  Liping Jia told me that he has changing buffers,gonna use ufl and uf.By now i havn't know Yuxin wang's buffers and would tell you soon


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## ChickenWrap (May 16, 2014)

That is a nice chart, but just because something is more popular doesn't mean it is faster or better. It is similar to how most people use different BLD orientations but any given one isn't faster.


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## szalejot (May 16, 2014)

ChickenWrap said:


> That is a nice chart, but just because something is more popular doesn't mean it is faster or better. It is similar to how most people use different BLD orientations but any given one isn't faster.



But BLD orientation does not affect solve, and buffer placement affects algorithms and commutators (one can be more fingershortcut friendly than other).
As you can see fastest BLD solvers are using different buffer placement, but *all* 7 fastest use DF as edge buffer. *All* next 9 use UF as edge buffer. Coincidence...?


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## RayLam (May 16, 2014)

szalejot said:


> But BLD orientation does not affect solve, and buffer placement affects algorithms and commutators (one can be more fingershortcut friendly than other).
> As you can see fastest BLD solvers are using different buffer placement, but *all* 7 fastest use DF as edge buffer. *All* next 9 use UF as edge buffer. Coincidence...?


agree


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## ChickenWrap (May 16, 2014)

szalejot said:


> But BLD orientation does not affect solve, and buffer placement affects algorithms and commutators (one can be more fingershortcut friendly than other).
> As you can see fastest BLD solvers are using different buffer placement, but *all* 7 fastest use DF as edge buffer. *All* next 9 use UF as edge buffer. Coincidence...?



I completely agree, but if you watch solves, you can see that the fastest BLD solvers don't use the same commutators for the same cases. There are so many possibilities that no matter what buffer you use, you can make it work (especially if you don't expect to be world-class).


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## Morgoth890 (May 19, 2014)

Do the top BLD solvers always start from the same buffer? Like if the buffer is already solved from the beginning, or if a new cycle begins, will they do some formula to put an other cubie in their buffer?
I had a look at some reconstructions on cubesolv.es and i think a special formula was done for that when the buffer was solved from the start.

I learned BH corners recently and i'm using floating buffers: I start by ULF, but if it's already solved i will just do my commutators based on the next non-solved corner (searching clockwise in the U layer and then in the D layer).
I don't really understand why you would absolutely want to start your commutators from the same position as it requires you to do one additional formula after each new cycle, and if you understand the mechanisms behind commutators you should be able to solve 3-cycles from any buffer.
Is it for easier fingertricks on specific buffers? Or to be able to recognize/execute formulas quicker?

I would imagine that with the amount of practice top BLD solvers put in, it would be more efficient to solve from any position, maybe with one "favorite" buffer, but without adding one formula for each cycle.


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## DrKorbin (May 19, 2014)

szalejot said:


> But BLD orientation does not affect solve, and buffer placement affects algorithms and commutators (one can be more fingershortcut friendly than other).
> As you can see fastest BLD solvers are using different buffer placement, but *all* 7 fastest use DF as edge buffer. *All* next 9 use UF as edge buffer. Coincidence...?



Those next 9 are just lazy noobs. Also UWR (single and avg5) belongs to Maskow. I think UF has the same potential as DF.


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## A Leman (May 20, 2014)

szalejot said:


> But BLD orientation does not affect solve, and buffer placement affects algorithms and commutators (one can be more fingershortcut friendly than other).
> As you can see fastest BLD solvers are using different buffer placement, but *all* 7 fastest use DF as edge buffer. *All* next 9 use UF as edge buffer. Coincidence...?



His list on the left is not showing speed and should not be numbered. He is just grouping buffers. Before Kaijun Lin's recent solves, all of the top 5 used the UF buffer.


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## porkynator (May 20, 2014)

And then there's that guy who uses UR for edges. Not even on the M layer, lol. He's such a noob.

If you are wondering why, it's because I've never really switched method. My transitions (OP->turbo and turbo->commutators) have always been smooth; whenever I learned a new alg, I implemented it in my solves. I tried to change to UF once, but I gave; I thought the gain wasn't worth the effort. So I still use OP buffers.
We can say I still use (an advanced version of) OP.

Also, I'm surprised only a few cubers use adjacent buffers, which is in my opinion the best choice (it makes parity suck less).


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## Nicck (Jun 9, 2014)

Floating buffers would be cool.
But... you would have to memorize the locations of cycle breaks, perhaps include buffers in your memo, and deal with double transpositions arising from cases where more than one of your cycles are even (and executing these double transpositions as the products of two three cycles would negate the benefits of using floating buffers in the fist place).
But.. perhaps clever ways of doing these things just haven't been discovered yet, because nobody's searching for them.
Also, floating buffers (meaning no restrictions on which pieces can act as buffer pieces) seems like a more pure approach to blindsolving, but complications could make their implementation much less attractive.

Interesting stuff...


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## Angel Lim (Jun 9, 2014)

The chart doesn't tell the whole story. 

If I were to redo it, I'd make sure my buffers were on the same layer.


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## Nicck (Jun 9, 2014)

For convenient more convenient parity fixes? (pll edge-corner double transpositions)


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## Angel Lim (Jun 18, 2014)

Nicck said:


> For convenient more convenient parity fixes? (pll edge-corner double transpositions)



Yeah.


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## TMOY (Jun 18, 2014)

Nicck said:


> Floating buffers would be cool.


"would" ??? Why are you speaking of them just as if nobody had ever tried to use them ? Floating buffers ARE cool period
And for double 2-cycles, there are many cases where you can easily setup them into a H-perm/Z-perm/(M2U2)^2/(L2U2)^3 (for edges) or H-perm/E-perm/triple sexy move/triple sledge (for corners), or probably others which, just as you say, haven't been discovered yet.


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## lucarubik (Apr 7, 2017)

porkynator said:


> And then there's that guy who uses UR for edges. Not even on the M layer, lol. He's such a noob.
> 
> If you are wondering why, it's because I've never really switched method. My transitions (OP->turbo and turbo->commutators) have always been smooth; whenever I learned a new alg, I implemented it in my solves. I tried to change to UF once, but I gave; I thought the gain wasn't worth the effort. So I still use OP buffers.
> We can say I still use (an advanced version of) OP.
> ...


and how does it work, ive been thinking of using UL, does it make you use S turns too much or is it even more M/E slide friendly wich is what im looking for, also are you using R turns more than L ones or the other way around?


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## porkynator (Apr 10, 2017)

lucarubik said:


> and how does it work, ive been thinking of using UL, does it make you use S turns too much or is it even more M/E slide friendly wich is what im looking for, also are you using R turns more than L ones or the other way around?



Recentyl I started using many S moves, and I find them convenient. Try R U R' (S R2 S') R' U' R' (I do S and S' with my right middle finger).
I think I use M less than one using UF or DF. E moves should be about the same.
I'm not sure if I use more R or L moves.


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## lucarubik (Apr 10, 2017)

porkynator said:


> Recentyl I started using many S moves, and I find them convenient. Try R U R' (S R2 S') R' U' R' (I do S and S' with my right middle finger).
> I think I use M less than one using UF or DF. E moves should be about the same.
> I'm not sure if I use more R or L moves.


that one i'd solve it as RU 2 gen R' U R U R, U2, maybe thats the only reason why my R move count is almost double than the L one, its defenetly a great buffer, still cant decide if worth changing tho


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## abunickabhi (Jul 29, 2018)

Good list compilation , but I think the concept of buffer is growing out to be a bit irrelevant , considering how many targets the top 100 solvers , are learning to float to.....


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## porkynator (Jan 27, 2021)

TaliwangCube said:


> Then, what are your buffers for wings and midges? Do you use URf and Ur?


No, I use Uf/UFr. When I started 4BLD and 5BLD many of my 3BLD algs did not work on bigger cubes, so I decided to "start from scratch" with the buffer that I thought made more sense. I don't use S moves for BigBLD, but I have not optimized my algs at all.


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