# M & M' for F2L



## ariasamie (Sep 29, 2010)

do you use M & M' for the first two layers?
if yes what cases? what are the algs?
these comments are from this video.


Spoiler











so, Breandan does use M & M' and faz seems to be looking for such algs!

yes my youtube has a black background. http://userstyles.org/


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## Zonda (Sep 29, 2010)

R Rw' U L F' L' U' M' is the alg in the vid.

I don't use them, but sometimes I improvise. I rarely gain anything by doing so though.


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## Enter (Sep 29, 2010)

M U L F' L' U' M'
fixed


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## gasmus (Sep 29, 2010)

He wanted to know the alg for that one case in the video(which happened to contain an M'). Hes not looking for tons of algs with M/M'

Edit: and actually, Zonda was correct thats how it was performed


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## Eleredo (Sep 29, 2010)

I do, but I can't say the algorithm(s) as I use the Petrus method so there are no algorithms for the first two layers.


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## Godmil (Sep 29, 2010)

gasmus said:


> He wanted to know the alg for that one case in the video(which happened to contain an M'). Hes not looking for tons of algs with M/M'



Reread the OP.
My Fav F2L alg with an M in it is this one: r' U' R U M' ( for slotting a pair in the back right position without a cube rotation - though the rotation is faster so it's only really useful for edge control)

EDIT: yeah ok, sorry. VV


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## gasmus (Sep 29, 2010)

You re-read

by "He" i mean Feliks


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## StachuK1992 (Sep 29, 2010)

Yes, if getting a cross with 2 opp edges is much easier than getting a 'right' cross. Then just OLL, and do the M2 U2 M2 to an advantage, if possible.


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## Daniel Wu (Sep 29, 2010)

Just reverse the algs that everyone posted.


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## teller (Sep 29, 2010)

Stachuk1992 said:


> Yes, if getting a cross with 2 opp edges is much easier than getting a 'right' cross. Then just OLL, and do the M2 U2 M2 to an advantage, if possible.


 
Actually, couldn't you use this during F2L to break up or setup a pair if the occasion arises?

Still, eww...anytime I have this "wacked" cross (by accident) it screws with my recognition and I start putting things in the wrong slots.


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## Erzz (Sep 29, 2010)

If it's the last pair and no edges are orientated, L F L' U2 M' U M.


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## oprah62 (Sep 29, 2010)

Does anyone have a collection of Breandan's f2l algs?


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## Joker (Sep 30, 2010)

Yea, I use M/M' quite a bit. Lowers rotaions, lowers amount of moves.


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## Sa967St (Sep 30, 2010)

You could use Forte's amazing F2L trick O:
S (rUR'U')*3 S'


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## maggot (Sep 30, 2010)

Joker said:


> Yea, I use M/M' quite a bit. Lowers rotaions, lowers amount of moves.



do you? really? youre awesome. 


back on topic, the westonian youtube channel does describe some awkward insertion with M slice, and does describe how that can be used for partial edge control. he also explain how he would only use these alg for awkward insertion iff it would help with edge orientation. (as far as i remember) the video have been around for a long time (over a year?) 

i have learned these technique, however i admit i dont ever use it. its faster for me to work with unoriented edges or cube rotations. i should give it a chance though. i admit to not practicing it because it is not friendly on big cubes. i spend more time on big cube than 3x3. i pretty much never use any kind of partial edge control. maybe thats why im so slow @ 3x3 LMAO!


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## Joker (Sep 30, 2010)

Sa967St said:


> You could use Forte's amazing F2L trick O:
> S (rUR'U')*3 S'


Er...that messes up F2L, unless I'm doing it wrong...


maggot said:


> do you? really? youre awesome.
> 
> 
> back on topic, the westonian youtube channel does describe some awkward insertion with M slice, and does describe how that can be used for partial edge control. he also explain how he would only use these alg for awkward insertion iff it would help with edge orientation. (as far as i remember) the video have been around for a long time (over a year?)
> ...


Yay I got called awesome! -checks off goal in life-
Oh and btw shoulda made this a poll


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## Sa967St (Sep 30, 2010)

Sa967St said:


> You could use Forte's amazing F2L trick O:
> S (rUR'U')*3 S'





Joker said:


> Er...that messes up F2L, unless I'm doing it wrong...


It's used when you accidentally did cross wrong by having two adjacent pieces flipped (at DL and FD), and the FR F2L slot case is the upside-down pair.


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## Escher (Sep 30, 2010)

oprah62 said:


> Does anyone have a collection of Breandan's f2l algs?



No, and neither does he!

He forgot the majority of them during his break. I have like a few algs for the very first part of his system, but its not useful without the rest really. Besides, Macky should have the ones I do on his advanced f2l page anyway, I think he said he was going to put them up.


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## waffle=ijm (Sep 30, 2010)

I use M and M' all the time.


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## oprah62 (Sep 30, 2010)

Hmm I really wish I could have at least some of them, I use most of the ones on Macky's site.


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## Akuma (Sep 30, 2010)

The only F2L algorithm I use with M are during edge control (VHF2L) when I get dot cases.

During cases like this:





I use L F L' U2 M' U M

I would also sometime use M & M's sometimes when I messed up the cross and I already started to insert F2L pairs. Like say I need to switch two cross pieces opposite next to each other; in that case I do M2 U2 M2.


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## Sa967St (Sep 30, 2010)

some F2L pair stuff that forces OLL skips:




M'U'r'FR



r'U'RUM'



U2RUR'U2y'r'U'RUM' 



U2RU'R'U'y'r'U'RUM'


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## oprah62 (Sep 30, 2010)

keep going sela! moar


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## Sa967St (Sep 30, 2010)

oprah62 said:


> keep going sela! moar



R U R' U2 y M' U' r' F R 
R' F' r U M y' U2 R U' R'
U R U R' U2 M' U R U' r'

etc...


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## Joker (Sep 30, 2010)

O thanks 
I'll see how handy it comes in later


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## mr6768 (Sep 30, 2010)

I don't use slice moves like M and M' in my F2L.
I thnik it makes F2L slower . I just control edges on last pair .
any way I found this shrot alg for inserting rotationless when you have pair in back layer : f R' f' or U f R' f'
do the inverse of one of those algs to see what i mean . but remember that these two alg may disturb your look ahead.


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## Kenneth (Oct 1, 2010)

R U M' U R' U' M
M' U R U' M U R'

I had a load once but most seems to be forgotten now since I don't do F2L anymore =)

Edit:

Rw U' Rw' U2 Rw U M U R'

The inverse solves the mirror case.


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## ariasamie (Oct 1, 2010)

Zonda said:


> R Rw' U L F' L' U' M' is the alg in the vid.
> 
> I don't use them, but sometimes I improvise. I rarely gain anything by doing so though.


 
thanks, It's going to reduce my cube rotations a lot.


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## riffz (Oct 3, 2010)

ariasamie said:


> thanks, It's going to reduce my cube rotations a lot.


 
Are you talking about that case specifically? You don't need to rotate for that regardless of whether you use M/M' or not.

Some nice tricks in here. I'll have to get around to learning some of these.


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