# 4x4 LBL Method



## cannon4747 (Jan 10, 2011)

what i do:
1: layer one (centers cross corners - ccc)
i solve the first center
then the cross edge pairs
and insert corners.

2: 2nd layer (centers edges - 2ce)
i use the center swapping algorithm used in cage to solve the 2nd layer centers 
(its helpful to make the side of the center youre solving the up face)
i use the k4 lbl algorithm to insert 2nd layer edges

3: 3rd layer (centers edges - 3ce)
i basically repeat the second step except that i apply it to the 3rd layer:
cage center swapping for 3rd layer centers
k4 lbl algorithm to insert 3rd layer edges

4*: 4th layer oll (double edges, corners - dcoll)
oll parity algorithm
+5x5 last two edges adjacent dedge swap algorithm 
+setup moves
corners oll algorithms (from 3x3)

5**: pll of 4th layer (corners, dedges - cdpll)
corners pll as usual
use setup moves and adjacent dedge swap (5x5)
"special"*** pll algorithm combos to solve



*it is here that many people give up but its not impossible, i figured it out on my second try
**this is where you would normally need VERY long VERY complicated algorthims that would just take too long to figure out and remember so i use variations of know algs and setup moves to solve, (its never as hard as it looks)
***special pll algorithms are 3-gen pll algorithms (using F, R, and U moves only) where instead of using R (just outer layer) i use Rr (Rw). its kind of hard to describe so to the t-perm this way and see the difference (you may want to use a 5x5 to see how it is truly a t-perm)
normal 3-gen t-perm used on 3x3:
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'
"special" 3-gen t-perm used on big cubes:
Rr U Rr' U' Rr' F Rr2 U' Rr' U' Rr U Rr' F'

now look at the difference, and think about what you can do if you use the y-perm? or any other 3-gen permutaion? 

you should mostly play around with these and also use regular pll algs to solve

this was very hard to figure out but most of it was playing around and if you play around with my instructions here then you will figure it out too 

if you don't understand what setup moves are then watch this blindfold tutorial because a LARGE part of blindsolving is setup moves, and he explains it very well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTxY-GrivnY

if anyone has ANY questions just ask me and if i get about 50 requests to make a video ill start working on one - good luck and happy solving


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## cincyaviation (Jan 10, 2011)

Not really anything special.


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## qqwref (Jan 10, 2011)

The basic LBL style has been known before, so that's not really anything new. If I'm understanding the OLL and PLL part right it sounds pretty inefficient and you'd be better off just doing normal OLL/PLL or CLL/ELL to solve corners (and middle edges if it's an odd cube) and then finishing off the edges with commutators.


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2011)

you can also do petrus. it's also retarded.


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## TheMachanga (Jan 10, 2011)

I've seen youtube videos of people solving 7x7 lbl, and other cubes. I think I saw a 2-7 relay once


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## Kynit (Jan 10, 2011)

Heh, big cube Petrus is the worst. Edge pairing with so little breathing room is hard.


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2011)

why would you even bother to pair if you were doing petrus?


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## Kynit (Jan 10, 2011)

Because I don't know what the bigcube equivalent of the EO step is


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2011)

edges have no orientation, you ignore the step entirely.


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## ben1996123 (Jan 10, 2011)

I "discovered" this method years ago.


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## Kynit (Jan 10, 2011)

How do you place the edges, then?


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## uberCuber (Jan 10, 2011)

1. petrus on bigcubes is just stupid 

2. edges on bigcubes (except for the middle one on odd cubes) do not have orientation, only permutation. So you just place them, there is really no 'how' about it. Any time you are doing anything to an edge piece, even if you are doing "OLL parity", you are permuting the piece in some way. "OLL parity" swaps two edge pieces, not flips them.

3. this is lolthread, because the OP's method is called 'commutators'


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2011)

Kynit said:


> How do you place the edges, then?



like a boss. 



uberCuber said:


> 3. this is lolthread, because the OP's method is called 'commutators'



If the OP knew about commutators his method would be a lot less silly.


How many algs does it take you to do the LL, babe?


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## Kynit (Jan 10, 2011)

uberCuber said:


> 2. edges on bigcubes (except for the middle one on odd cubes) do not have orientation, only permutation. So you just place them, there is really no 'how' about it.


 
Um.

I know wings have no orientation. How do you finish the F2L after the 3x3x4?


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## da25centz (Jan 10, 2011)

so its a bad version of k4?


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2011)

Kynit said:


> I know wings have no orientation. How do you finish the F2L after the 3x3x4?


 
columns, directly, etc

there are loads of ways. try and find a good one.


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## Tim Major (Jan 11, 2011)

I like CCFCE for 4x4
CC: Centres+cross Yau style.
F: corner + 1/2 of the edges. Then use U R U' (l' or r depending on case) U R' U' (l or r', depending on previous)
CLL.
ELL.

I use like, 2 look CLL, 4-5 look ELL 
I'm about 1:30 with this, and it's a lot of fun on even bigger cubes.
This was originally LBL, but I realised there's no point inserting the corners, then doing step 2 twice, I can do one of the edges at the same time. So I'm about 15-20s slower than my normal 4x4 method, but the LL sucks for me with just simple comms.


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## cannon4747 (Jan 11, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> edges have no orientation, you ignore the step entirely.


 
step 4...



da25centz said:


> so its a bad version of k4?


 
its a way to occupy your time 

i can see that my method is obviosly very inefficient and slow but one of the reasons for posting is so that i can gain more info about it to hopefully refine it.


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## caters (Jan 23, 2014)

sped up video of 11x11 LBL. He did it just over an hour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwzDXwn1E4w


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## Bunyanderman (Jan 23, 2014)

caters said:


> sped up video of 11x11 LBL. He did it just over an hour(*Multiplied by 3*) .
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwzDXwn1E4w



*3 Hours


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## caters (Jan 26, 2014)

yeah okay just over 3 hours but you know what this proves? It proves that it can work for any cubiodal rubiks cube(including perfect cubes) to do LBL. I say cuboidal rubiks cube because a lot of people consider things like Skewb octahedron, Pyraminx, Megaminx and all its sizes, and the icosohedron rubiks cubes since they follow the same principles as the perfect cubes.


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## Ollie (Jan 26, 2014)

Bunyanderman said:


> *3 Hours



I peed my pants a little


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## qqwref (Jan 27, 2014)

caters said:


> yeah okay just over 3 hours but you know what this proves? It proves that it can work for any cubiodal rubiks cube(including perfect cubes) to do LBL.


I don't think that needed proving. Also, for the record, in July 2013 I did a computer 20x20x20 with layer by layer in 2:25:40.


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## caters (Jan 28, 2014)

maybe not but a lot of people teaching you how to solve the 11x11 rubiks cube use the Fredirik method not beginner LBL


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