# A New 3x3 Method?



## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

I have no idea whether or not this is a new method but while playing around with OH I thought a completely 2gen LL would be awesome. So this method was born.

Step:1 Edge orientation

Step:2 Build a 2x2x2 block

Step:3 Expand it to a 2x2x3 block

Step:4 Permute corners

Step:5 Finish F2L 2 gen

Step:6 COMPLETELY 2 GEN LL!!!! OMG OH HEAVEN!!!

All feedback is welcome 

P.S. what should I name this method if it's a new method?


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## moralsh (Sep 3, 2012)

or you could use Petrus 

on a more serious tone, I don't understand what steps 1 and 4 are for


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## 5BLD (Sep 3, 2012)

It's like Petrus but more inefficient really, keeping EO while trying to blockbuild is difficult.
Also how are you going to permute corners? Am curious.


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## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

5BLD said:


> It's like Petrus but more inefficient really, keeping EO while trying to blockbuild is difficult.
> Also how are you going to permute corners? Am curious.



retaining EO while block building isn't too hard and for permuting corners I have 3 algs for the 6 cases for the corners. I can post the cases and algs for you if you want. Also this method is my OH method so I don't use as many F/B or M slices as I would if I were blockbuilding 2H



moralsh said:


> or you could use Petrus
> 
> on a more serious tone, I don't understand what steps 1 and 4 are for



Step one is to make the solve mostly 3 gen and step 4 is to make the LL 2 gen.


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## 5BLD (Sep 3, 2012)

I did not mean to say it was hard to retain. I meant it was hard to be efficient in it. Here's a scramble: D' F2 U' B2 U' R2 D' B2 D2 F2 U F' U R D2 F R' B' L B U 

Now give me a speedsolving example. Let's see if your block is efficient.

Basically I do not see any benefit to doing EO early on other than to differentiate it from Petrus.


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## Petro Leum (Sep 3, 2012)

its like a mix of Petrus and zz-d. hard to speedsolve is my guess.


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## Kirjava (Sep 3, 2012)

Petrus + CPLS with EO needlessly restricting blockbuilding.


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## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

5BLD said:


> I did not mean to say it was hard to retain. I meant it was hard to be efficient in it. Here's a scramble: D' F2 U' B2 U' R2 D' B2 D2 F2 U F' U R D2 F R' B' L B U
> 
> Now give me a speedsolving example. Let's see if your block is efficient.
> 
> Basically I do not see any benefit to doing EO early on other than to differentiate it from Petrus.



EO F L2 U' D2 L' F'

2x2x2 block L' U2 L U2 D2 F2 D'

2x2x4 block R' U R' U R F2

Corner permutation R' U' R2 U2 L' U R U' L

1x2x3 block U2 R U' R' U R2 U2 R U R' U R2

OLL U R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R

PLL U2

I'd say my blocks are decent I also decided to do a full example solve instead just incase anyone wants one.



Kirjava said:


> Petrus + CPLS with EO needlessly restricting blockbuilding.



Well for me personally it is a little hard to look ahead into both EO and corner permutation without the restricted block building...


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## Godmil (Sep 3, 2012)

This is like the fourth new method in a week. Interesting.


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## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

Godmil said:


> This is like the fourth new method in a week. Interesting.


Yeah I noticed that so I thought why not  What do you think of the method?


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## porkynator (Sep 3, 2012)

The only thing that makes this method different from ZZ-d is blockbuilding without the line... it's not a bad idea in my opinion, but it isn't new either.
Maybe this EO -> blockbuilding can be useful in FMC, but usually it's better to do blockbuilding -> EO or even better to do them together.


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## brunovervoort (Sep 3, 2012)

I don't think a 2-gen LL is very efficient. It also requires a lot of regrips.


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## Stefan (Sep 3, 2012)

RubiXer said:


> 6 cases for the corners



How and how fast do you recognize the case?



RubiXer said:


> Corner permutation R' U' R2 U2 L' U R U' L



L' U R U' L is faster.


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## mDiPalma (Sep 3, 2012)

@ 5bld's D' F2 U' B2 U' R2 D' B2 D2 F2 U F' U R D2 F R' B' L B U

x' D' L2 F R' U' x' (eo 5)
D' R2 (D' U) R D2 R U R' F2 (2x2x3+advanced zzd cp 9)
z U R2 U2 R2 U2 R U' R U' R2 U R' U R' U' R (damn 16)

=30 atm 31 htm

it's a good method.

EDIT: if anyone else can find a better continuation after the 2x2x3, pls pm me the details.


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## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

@brunovervoort How so? You don't have to re-grip as much and this is my OH method anyway and if you know anything about OH you only have access to the R and U faces.

@Stefan I can probably recognize the cases around .8-1.1 seconds and I set up the CP to make the second block faster.

@mDiPalma Thanks! Can you explain the "2x2x3+advanced zzd cp" subset?


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## nqwe (Sep 3, 2012)

mDiPalma said:


> @ 5bld's D' F2 U' B2 U' R2 D' B2 D2 F2 U F' U R D2 F R' B' L B U
> 
> x' D' L2 F R' U' x' (eo 5)
> D' R2 (D' U) R D2 R U R' F2 (2x2x3+advanced zzd cp 9)
> ...



Maybe for FMC, but you wouldn't get better times than with CFOP, Roux, ZZ or whatever.
I sometimes even hate the discussion about new speedcubing methods; if things like CPLS would make you faster, why are no WR set with it?! Besides addons like COLL, MGLS, etc. I don't really know world's top speedcubers, that use complicated things like CPLS, EO-Blockbuilding, etc..


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## Noahaha (Sep 3, 2012)

What we NEED is Petrus with EOCP. Thank you.


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## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

nqwe said:


> Maybe for FMC, but you wouldn't get better times than with CFOP, Roux, ZZ or whatever.
> I sometimes even hate the discussion about new speedcubing methods; if things like CPLS would make you faster, why are no WR set with it?! Besides addons like COLL, MGLS, etc. I don't really know world's top speedcubers, that use complicated things like CPLS, EO-Blockbuilding, etc..


1.I never said you'd get better times I just decided to put my idea out there.
2.The world renounced cubers are all comfortable with there main methods so I doubt they would try to incorporate things like CPLS into their solves.
3.Feliks uses COLL
4. That was really stupid for you to say EO and Blockbuilding are complicated when you listed 2 methods that infact use both EO and Blockbuilding(Roux and ZZ)
and 5.Some of the world's top speedcubers use Roux which uses both EO and Blockbuilding.

Next time think before you post such a contradicting comment

@Noahaha Not quite sure if I understand but your welcome?


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## mDiPalma (Sep 3, 2012)

Noah is crazy. ignore him.


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## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

Oh ok... By the way can you explain"2x2x3+advanced zzd cp" to me please?


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## brunovervoort (Sep 3, 2012)

RubiXer said:


> @brunovervoort How so? You don't have to re-grip as much and this is my OH method anyway and if you know anything about OH you only have access to the R and U faces.



Actually, you have to regrip more than usual.


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## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

brunovervoort said:


> Actually, you have to regrip more than usual.


Not if you have good algs and good fingertricks


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## Noahaha (Sep 3, 2012)

mDiPalma said:


> Noah is crazy. ignore him.



I was being dead serious. An EOCP step in Petrus that does not take much longer than the current EO step could make Petrus a viable method.


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## brunovervoort (Sep 3, 2012)

RubiXer said:


> Not if you have good algs and good fingertricks



Sounds good, send me your algs. I want to be sub 10 with this method, but I don't think I'll reach it without your algs.


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## mDiPalma (Sep 3, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> I was being dead serious. An EOCP step in Petrus that does not take much longer than the current EO step could make Petrus a viable method.



do you have any idea how many cases there would be? let's calculate.

let's say you made like a Porkynator and placed the two DF corners in DF. there are 6 cases for cp, at this point. 2 of which are solved cps. however, you can't take advantage of these solved states cuz u have edges to orient.

ok, now for the eo. you can have 2 adjacent edges on the U layer be wrong. this is 4 cases.
you can also have 2 opposite edges be wrong, this is also 4 cases. note aufing will not work because you also have to manage the cp.
you can have 1 wrong edge on U and 1 wrong edge on f. 16 cases.
you can have 2 adj or opp edges on F wrong. 8 cases.
you can have 4 wrong edges on U OR F. 8 cases
you can have 3 wrong on U and 1 wrong on F. 16 cases
you can have 3 wrong on F and 1 wrong on U. 16 cases.
you can have 2 wrong adjacently on each. 16 cases.
you can have 3 wrong oppositely on each. 16 cases.
you can have 2 wrong adj on U and 2 wrong opp on F. 16 cases
you can have 2 wrong adj on F and 2 wrong opp on U. 16 cases
you can have 4 wrong on U and 2 wrong adj on F. 16 cases
you can have 4 wrong on F and 2 wrong adj on U. 16 cases
you can have 3 wrong on U and 3 on F. 16 cases
you can have 8 wrong. 16 cases

this math is probably wrong. but 16*12.5*6= 1200 cases. and that's after having simplified the situation by placing the DF corners.

EDIT: ya the math is definitely wrong, but it's still in the correct order of magnitude. there are two many cases.


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## Noahaha (Sep 3, 2012)

mDiPalma said:


> do you have any idea how many cases there would be? let's calculate.
> 
> let's say you made like a Porkynator and placed the two DF corners in DF. there are 6 cases for cp, at this point. 2 of which are solved cps. however, you can't take advantage of these solved states cuz u have edges to orient.
> 
> ...



However, once you've identified the CP case, it can be solved intuitively by setting up to algs like R U R' and R U' R' which swap two corners and flip two edges.


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## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

brunovervoort said:


> Sounds good, send me your algs. I want to be sub 10 with this method, but I don't think I'll reach it without your algs.


For Oll and Pll or CP or both?


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## mDiPalma (Sep 3, 2012)

@noah

R' F R F', R U R', R U2 R', and R U' R' all swap 2 adjacent corners on the U layer. how would you go about swapping 2 diagonal corners on the U layer?


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## Noahaha (Sep 3, 2012)

mDiPalma said:


> R' F R F', R U R', R U2 R', and R U' R' all swap 2 adjacent corners on the U layer. how would you go about swapping 2 diagonal corners on the U layer?



Set it up so they're adjacent.


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## mDiPalma (Sep 3, 2012)

R2 U2 R2 L F U R2 D2 B L2 R' U2 F B' D' L2 F' U2 F U2 D2 B2 U' R B

M' U x' B' U r' F2 r (2x2x2 i know i suck)
U R U R2 U2 R2 y2 (2x2x3)
try eo cp right here


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## nqwe (Sep 3, 2012)

RubiXer said:


> 1.I never said you'd get better times I just decided to put my idea out there.
> 2.The world renounced cubers are all comfortable with there main methods so I doubt they would try to incorporate things like CPLS into their solves.
> 3.Feliks uses COLL
> 4. That was really stupid for you to say EO and Blockbuilding are complicated when you listed 2 methods that infact use both EO and Blockbuilding(Roux and ZZ)
> ...



You didn't understand.
I said, besides addons such as COLL, etc.
And I meant, EO -> blockbuilding, not EO like in ZZ or blockbuilding like in roux or petrus.
btw, EO in roux is something different than in ZZ for instance; you could say CFOP uses EO, because you need to know how to orient edges 

Next time think before you post such a contradicting comment


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## Noahaha (Sep 3, 2012)

mDiPalma said:


> R2 U2 R2 L F U R2 D2 B L2 R' U2 F B' D' L2 F' U2 F U2 D2 B2 U' R B
> 
> M' U x' B' U r' F2 r (2x2x2 i know i suck)
> U R U R2 U2 R2 y2 (2x2x3)
> try eo cp right here



CP is done, so: 
x' F2 M U M' U2 M U M'


Another example (same scramble):
2x2x2: D L F M' U r' (6)
2x2x3 x' B U B' F U F' (6)
EOCP: y U' M F M' U' F U2 R U' R' (10)
F2L: x y U R U2 R U2 R U' R U' R' U' R (12)
2GLL:


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## Pascal (Sep 3, 2012)

Umm, EO + blockbuilding.. Yeah, but EO + 2x2x3 is like EOLine + Left Block. You only added CP before Right Block from ZZ, so it's just harder version of ZZ.. Good ZZ solver can permute corners while doing right block, after that is also 2GLL. Nothing more to add 

EDIT: Compare your solution of @5BLD's scramble with this (ZZ)

D' F2 U' B2 U' R2 D' B2 D2 F2 U F' U R D2 F R' B' L B U

z y' B F R2 D' F // EOLine (5/5)
U' R U' R2 U' L' U L' // Left Block (8/13)
U R' U R U' R2 U R2 // Right Block (8/21)

So..?


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## Noahaha (Sep 3, 2012)

Pascal said:


> Good ZZ solver can permute corners while doing right block



false


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## Pascal (Sep 3, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> false



Okey, nvm, but this "method" is still like ZZ with added CP. I can add CP to ZZ solution:
L' U R U' L U R' U2 // CP (8/29)
but 29 is still better than 41..


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## aznanimedude (Sep 3, 2012)

Pascal said:


> Okey, nvm, but this "method" is still like ZZ with added CP.



It's actually more like petrus if you are doing 2x2x2 into 2x2x3. There's no eoline for this to resemble zz. Also zz + cp is zz-d


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## RubiXer (Sep 3, 2012)

nqwe said:


> You didn't understand.
> I said, besides addons such as COLL, etc.
> And I meant, EO -> blockbuilding, not EO like in ZZ or blockbuilding like in roux or petrus.
> btw, EO in roux is something different than in ZZ for instance; you could say CFOP uses EO, because you need to know how to orient edges
> ...



Oh I thought you meant like, besides Coll makes you slower. Sorry about that  but EO is EO


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## AHornbaker (Oct 9, 2012)

RubiXer said:


> Not if you have good algs and good fingertricks



Can you send me your algs? i have been experimenting with petrus method then 2Gen LL for a while


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## Pyjam (Oct 10, 2012)

Pascal said:


> EDIT: Compare your solution of @5BLD's scramble with this (ZZ)
> 
> D' F2 U' B2 U' R2 D' B2 D2 F2 U F' U R D2 F R' B' L B U
> 
> ...


So, very lucky. And are you color neutral with ZZ ?



Pascal said:


> Good ZZ solver can permute corners while doing right block, after that is also 2GLL. Nothing more to add


Hum... I would like to learn !


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## aznanimedude (Oct 10, 2012)

teach me master, to be a good ZZ solver that can do CP from right block OTL


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## Kirjava (Oct 15, 2012)

Why do people think comparing single solves of different methods has any kind of meaning?


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## cubacca1972 (Oct 17, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Why do people think comparing single solves of different methods has any kind of meaning?



Cherry picking.


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## oll+phase+sync (Oct 22, 2012)

Stefan said:


> L' U R U' L is faster.



My prefered alg for CP would be D'RUR'D
Even if there are only 6 cases, is there a beginner rule how to solve cp iterativly(like the way you learn EO for Petrus )


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