# Memory Methods



## dbeyer (Apr 12, 2007)

I use many memorization methods.
This is a small list:
I will provide a description of the methods, plus examples of how to use them.

Visual Memory Methods:

1. Some of the top notch cubist, such as Leyan Lo, use shapes to remember his blindfolded solves. Leyan also orients pieces. What the BLDist does is memorizes a cycle in the shape of a triangle connecting the pieces in the cycle.

2. This is the very basic method that I use, I think it's effective, yet not efficient;
I count as I solve piece by piece. I will alway count consecutively from 1-11.

Some signals I use: "Skip" and "O"
Skip tells me to start a new cycle. "O" (pronounced "oh") designates a piece that is permuted with a twisted orientation.

I do not memorize a string of numbers.
I have 11 variables for edges. (more counting Skips)

These variables are named
"One", "Two", "Three", "Four", "Five", "Six", "Seven", "Eight", "Nine", "Ten", "Eleven"

As I am counting I am tapping pieces, or at least scanning and remembering the piece that I permute as I count each number.

I remember which piece goes to each variable.
This is similar to Roman Rooms (Which I'll describe later)

Imagery Systems:
PAO (or some breakdown of that)
Person, Action, Objects.

I know that Chris Brownlee uses a PO system
Joel van Noort is working on a PAO system as well.

Each location as a predefined set of images.
With a PAO system (the biggest system), there would be about 72 images. You would then use about 20 of those images to memorize the cube. These 20 or so images would be broken down into 7 key points.

A person (Michael Jordan)
An action (slam dunks)
An object (basketball) This could mean something to somebody with a PAO system.

Let's say that UR->UF->UB gives this story.
However ...
UF->UB->UR is the same net effect of the cycle, just memorized from the UF, this would actually result in a completely different blurb.

A person (Chris Hardwick)
An action (solves)
An object (rubik's cube)

Each of the 24 locations have a specific person, action, and object.

You memorize in this order.

P->A->O->P->A->O->P->A->O

You will never get the Action image of the UF if it's a 3n (where n is a whole number) piece in the cycle.

Letter Pairs:
Chris Hardwick and I use letter pairs to memorize big cubes blindfolded. We have a lettering scheme for each piece type. Chris and I don't even use the same lettering scheme, personalize it so that the system makes sense to you, make sure it's something you won't forget.

We have images for every possible combination of 2 letters that can occur, with 24 locations, you get over 500 images! Do not fear the big 500, it is a very powerful system, I'm glad to have learned it and I will probably use it indefinitely for big cubes.

http://dbeyer.110mb.com/images.html

http://speedcubing.com/chris/memorizing.html

They are very similar mind you.

As memorize the order that pieces are solved we think of the letters associated with the locations, every letter pair is made into an image, then stored in a location, you then progress until all pieces of that type have been solved.

Storing Images:

Chris uses a Journey Method, I use Roman Rooms.
What Chris does is he goes to well known locations on a journey. He describes it on his site I believe, take a look at it.

I use Roman Rooms, the way that I use roman rooms, I place one image per location.

I create detailed rooms in my head that I normally am in. 

Some of those rooms would include where I work, and the different unique rooms at my house and my grandparents, homes as well.

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8215/romanroomaz9.jpg


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## dbeyer (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote Mike Carroll:

"I saw your post on the yahoo sports memory chat. Here's some insight on what I think.

I HIGHLY recommend you use a roman-room type journey method, as I think it has some advantages over the standard journey method. 

If you've not heard of the roman room system, I'll describe it in full.

Basically, it's like a wrapped up journey method, but instead of using a long snake-like path from some point to point, you use points of a familiar physical room. 

Almost all rooms are cubic; they have 4 walls, 4 corners, a ceiling, and a floor. To best illustrate a room, this image is given from a top birds eye view (looking from the top, down onto the floor.)

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8215/romanroomaz9.jpg

Now, the numbers designate the numbers of your journey method. This is more effective than the journey method, because it has more order and organisation. 

I like this more than the journey method because it always follows the same pattern. Pretend you're standing in this roman room, imagine yourself positioned in the middle, looking at position 4.

Location 2 will ALWAYS be to your left, 6 will ALWAYS be to your right, 8 will ALWAYS be behind you, position 5 will ALWAYS be to your front-right, ect. 

It's nice that all walls have even numbers, and corners have odds. It makes it quick and easy to navigate through. You don't "have" to start location 1 at the back-left corner, it can be anywhere. This is just what I use, and I don't see starting somewhere else better or worse in terms of efficiency. 

As for position 9 and 10, well, originally that was the floor (9) and ceiling (10), but I've found that all ceilings are too much alike, and it's difficult to distinguish one wall from another (can screw up stories.) So instead, position 9/10 are respectively "under" and "above" the object located in that location. If in the center of the room was a piano, position 9 would be inside (and have the image interact with the location, echos maybe), and position 10 would be on top of the piano, or something similar like that. 

Here's one of my rooms:

0 - My bedroom Object/Detail 
1 Light switch 
2 Game chest 
3 Fuzzy white bear 
4 Safe 
5 Clock 
6 Bed 
7 Juggling ball 
8 Pyramid magnetic 
9 Clothes bucket 
10 Inside clothes bucket 

(hopefully that shows up). Now, what I like to do (and I find it effective), is first go around the room and note a specific detail about each location in preparation. I have a excel file that stores all my locations. When you're making points, it's good to have them distinct and very different. If there's nothing there, it's helpful to try to find something there, or to place some object there. Luckily, my room is messy enough for it easily to have 10 things. If there's a blank location, just take some object from that room and put it there. 

Make sure you've got them memorised well, as you'll always use them no matter what you're memorising.

Then, when I am actually memorising and encoding information, this is what goes on in my brain. In location one, I would imagine my "mini-story" happening... INSIDE the lightswitch. Yes, inside. I pretend to shirk myself down and imagine a world of wires and electrical currents, and the scene happening there. It makes it much more visual, and links the story more easily to it. You can even pretend parts get "electrified". 

Location 2, I think of just opening my game chest and seeing what's going on there (maybe the scene happens to be on the monopoly land.)

Location 3 I imagine a big fuzzy land (because it's a fuzzy bear, where the scene happens.) again, interaction generally occurs subtly. 

It makes my locations stick with my images much more clearly, and it's easy to refer back to them.

It's also very easy to get locations in a house. You can organise your locations by a hierarchical system. So it would be like, Location-Room-House in terms of organizing. 

You can use as many houses as you like, or rooms. They're reusable, and easily re-visitable. What's the BEST feature of the roman room system, is say, you want to find your 25th story.

Well, easy. 3rd room, 5th location. (*note, it is not the 2nd room, because the order goes like this) 


1 - My bedroom 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 


2 Patrick's Room 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
........
Make sense?

It's because I didn't start out with my room being room "0", I did one. You can do both, but I tend to like this better.

I currently have about 4 houses that I've been to and gotten in my mind. It's really not that hard. Each house has an average of 10 rooms, with 10 locations in each. It makes in nicer to use larger and more expensive houses, because then you'll get an even 100 locations per room. So if you have 10 houses, 1000 locations. 

Say you need the 524 room. Well, that'd be VERY hard to find on a journey (and tedious), unless you had labeled each journey. Mine, easy. 6th house, 3rd room, 8 location. This would be the story that happened behind you, in the relevant object (when number 4 is in front of you when you're standing in the middle) 

For rooms, you can use museums, shops, school, library, friend's houses, anything. I just find it very useful to make them as ordered as possible, as it makes recall so much easier."

End Quote:


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## AvGalen (Apr 12, 2007)

I only just started learning blindfolded (2x2x2 and 3x3x3 only, sofar) using Macky's guide and adjusted numbering and algs to my style.

For orientation I LEARNED numbers, but I convert them to shapes automatically in my head. Untill I read this post, I didn't know this was called shapes. Also, I don't limit this to triangles
For corner-permutation, I try to group numbers so they are easier to remember. 1 3 2 4 becomes 13 24 becomes "unlucky 4!"
For edge-permutation, I use a story based on numbers.

If I use the first scramble of 2007-08 competition (B F R' D2 B F R' U' L' R' B2 F L R D2 U' R2 D U' R' F2 L2 D' U2 F), memory becomes this

(I scramble with white on top, green on front. I solve with yellow on top, red in front)

Edge orientation: UL, UR, RF, RB, DL, DF, DR and DB need to be flipped.
Remember as T-shape and entire bottom.

Corner orientation: UFR, UFB, DFL, DFR have to be turned counter clockwise (backwards), DRB has to be turned clockwise (forwards).
Remember as "Right-bottom back forwards" (so naturally the other piece has to go backwards). All other pieces of the front-right faces, except the first (UFL=1 for me) have to go backwards.

Corner permutation: 12345678 = ULF, URF, URB, ULB, DLF, DRF, DRB, DLB. 2->5->3->7->8->4->6.
Remember as 25 37 846. Easy to remember 5^2, 6^2+1, second highest even number possible

Edge permutation: 123456789101112 = UF, UR, RB, RL, LF, RF, RB, LB, DF, DR, DB, DL = 1->10->5->6->9->2->8->7->3->12(->1), 4->11(->4).
Remember as a Dutch scoring system. 1=lowest, 10=highest, 5=just not good enough, 6=just good enough. This is the story I made:
I got one 10 which was perfect (1->10)
But then I got mediocre and had to work my way up to perfection again (5->6->9)
I went from the lowest limits to the highest and back again (2->8->7->3)
Untill it ended (12)
Then all I had to do was switch the last remaining two (4->11)

Reading this back, I think I am very creative with numbers


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## pjk (Apr 14, 2007)

Well, I will explain how I memorize right now. So I will do an example so you can see. This is the same scramble as Arnaud posted:
B F R' D2 B F R' U' L' R' B2 F L R D2 U' R2 D U' R' F2 L2 D' U2 F
Scramble with yellow on top, red front. 

Okay, so I hold white on top, red on front now to memorize. First I remember CP. I do this strictly by numbers:
5 1 8 2 6 7
Since I use a very easy method of solving (as described on my site), I use the T-perm to cycle. In this case, that was a 6 corner cycle, and the CP is done for memo.

Next I remember EP. I do this all visually. So I first see it goes to the lower back, then top left, lower front, middle back left, middle front left, lower left, front upper, middle back right, middle front right, then I see the cycle is complete, but still have two un-cycled edges, so I see back upper and lower left and back up to back upper. It is hard to explain the technique, but it works fine for now.

Next, I memorize EO using mostly numbers, unless it is something I think I can visualize. In this case, I can definitely see it visually. I see the upper back needs to be flipped, and the 3 edges towards the back of the down face. So I know in my mind I will do an x2 rotation, then D2 B2, do the 4 edge flip, and undo it.

Finally, I visually memorize CO, very quickly. I see 1 and 2 corners need rotating. I see with a simple commutator, I will rotate 1 to the correct spot, and 2 will be 1 "alg" away from correct. I see in 5 6 (the two corners on the lower front face) need to do an "anti" commutator alg (that is what I call that design). I see that corner 8 is 1 alg from being flipped. So I will remember to do the commutator alg once for 1 and 2, then do F2 and fix 5 6, and finally do a L2 to setup and fix 8 2 together, and finally undo it.

Okay, so this method is kind of odd. I am working on an object system to modify Pochmann. I will assign an object to 22 locations, and basically remember a sentence for EP. My current CP and CO is working well, and for EO I will work on doing it all visually. Once I get that all good, I should be able to memorize sub-60 seconds pretty easily. Then I will work towards speeding the solve phase.

Have fun,
Pat


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## AvGalen (Apr 14, 2007)

PJK, I tried to follow your explanation, but I need some more info:
Do you also solve with yellow on top, red front? Or white on top, red on front?
What is your numbering scheme for CP?
What is the first piece in your EP (I am guessing UR)
Is their any way you could make a video of this and upload it? (I know you are on dial-up)


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## Erik (Apr 14, 2007)

I don't use any system...
Maybe you could call it slightly visual..


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## pjk (Apr 14, 2007)

> *PJK, I tried to follow your explanation, but I need some more info:
> Do you also solve with yellow on top, red front? Or white on top, red on front?
> What is your numbering scheme for CP?
> What is the first piece in your EP (I am guessing UR)
> Is their any way you could make a video of this and upload it? (I know you are on dial-up)*


I solve with white on top, red on front. For CP, I start with UFL as 1, UFR as 2, etc. The first piece for EP is UR. As far as a video, I really can't. The only video camera I have is a real nice digital photography camera, and it makes videos huge. A 20 seconds video will be 10 MB or so. However, I will try to make one, compress it, and upload it at the college. My method is very similar to McGaughs, as of right now at least.

Check out my site in my sig and click on BLD cubing for more about the method.

Pat


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## AvGalen (Apr 14, 2007)

Erik: If you have no system, do you really think you can >1 cube at once at the German Open?

PJK: Thanks for explaining. I will try to understand it tomorrow. Today was speedcubing day, tomorrow is blindfolded day


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## Erik (Apr 15, 2007)

I think I can arnoud I once solved 2 cubes already with my 'method'...


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## Harris Chan (Jun 6, 2007)

What method does Tyson use? numbers? I heard he has a good system XD


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## cmhardw (Jun 6, 2007)

Arnaud's scramble:
B F R' D2 B F R' U' L' R' B2 F L R D2 U' R2 D U' R' F2 L2 D' U2 F

Scrambled with white on U and green on F, but I always solve with yellow on U and green on F.

Here is my memorization of that cube:

Edges: (buffer)->L->B->X->R->S->V->E->N->G->I->P->B
as images this would be

At location #1) A lazy boy chair (LB) with Rogue from Xmen (XR) standing next to it. A starving person who is very emaciated (SV) pushes her so she falls into the chair.

At location #2) An alien from a book I read (EN) breaks through the glass wall of a giant bottle of gin (GI) and gets drunk. It then pukes all over a polar bear (PB).

Corners: B->W->R->P->D->K->V

At location #3) Orlando Bloom (B) stands next to Gandalf (WR) from Lord of the Rings and watches him cast a spell on a Panda (PD). After casting the spell the Panda is able to shoot bullets out of it's mouth at a Kevlar vest (KV).

I memorized the corners a bit differently because my buffer piece was already solved, so this is why I started with a single letter image. This is an idea Daniel and I call "pseudo-buffer" solving. I handled the 2 cycle in the edges by simply "breaking into" the longer cycle with my buffer piece after that 2 cycle solved.

I'm getting faster at using these images on 3x3x3, with a personal best in the mid 1:40's. The real strength of this system is for the 5x5x5 cube and using this system for the inner 3x3x3 pieces on the 5x5x5. Again for the solving phase I do not use 2-cycles but I always solve with freestyle commutators. Except for situations where I "break into" a new cycle I always solve both position and orientation of 2 pieces at once by doing this.

Chris


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## joey (Jun 6, 2007)

Chris: do you think you could show an example 3x3 solve, for that scramble? I would be interested in that!

Or you can e-mail at cardologist [at] gmail.com if you want!


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## Mátyás Kuti(shaipo) (Jun 6, 2007)

For all pieces I have word groups. For example: white-red: medical things, operation, scalpel, blood, etc. In this manner I have 500(or more) words for all pieces. Not only nouns, I also have adjectives and verbs. I try to make a funny or disgusting story.
And the key is to REALLY imagine it...


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## dbeyer (Jun 6, 2007)

Matyas

For each sticker (or a wing) you have over 500 references that you can make? That is insane ...
Or is that 500 in total? Like 

500 divided amongst 24 pieces, or

is it 

500*24
or 500/24?

I'm a little confused ...


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## Mátyás Kuti(shaipo) (Jun 6, 2007)

> _Originally posted by dbeyer_@Jun 6 2007, 07:00 PM
> * Matyas
> 
> For each sticker (or a wing) you have over 500 references that you can make? That is insane ...
> ...


500*12(or 24 for 4x4)


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## KJiptner (Jun 6, 2007)

> _Originally posted by M?ty?s Kuti(shaipo)_@Jun 6 2007, 04:56 PM
> * And the key is to REALLY imagine it... *


Yeah, that plays a big role. When I do storys (I have prepared pieces for this) I some times only recall the person/action/thing verbally... which helps totally nothing and won't storage it in deep mind.


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## Harris Chan (Jun 8, 2007)

I can't imagine >.< It's always so dark when i close my eyes. It used to be easy...but I use hit my head a lot -.-

anyway, Johannes labeled the corners with consonants, and then he can use the vowels to form words with it. 

For edges Mitchell used: 

B D F J K L M R S T V W

Is there possible any other memo methods??


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## tim (Jun 8, 2007)

> _Originally posted by M?ty?s Kuti(shaipo)_@Jun 6 2007, 04:56 PM
> * In this manner I have 500(or more) words for all pieces. Not only nouns, I also have adjectives and verbs. I try to make a funny or disgusting story.
> And the key is to REALLY imagine it... *


 These are a lot of words . How do you memorize more than one cube? Do you use a journey/room system or something similiar? Or do you use your own revolutonary system? 

And Harris: You CAN imagine. Just look at your desk, chair or whatever you can see at the moment, close your eyes and try to recall the image you've seen a few seconds ago. And then try to manipulate it, set your chair on fire or make other strange things with your images. After a while you get used to it and you can imagine whatever you want.

btw.: My memory system is ehm.. none . I just memorize my paths for 3-cycle visually. But I want to get into multiple BLD solving, (I'll order 10 DIY-cubes this weekend ) so i need a system. Thanks guys for sharing your memorizing methods. That really helped me to get an idea which system to use. These "word groups" Matyas uses sound really interesting, so you are not fixed on a specific word, which sometimes doesn't really fit in your actual image. And which "overall" system would you guys prefer for multiple BLD cubing? I think of a room method, where each room has places for one cube (or two rooms, one for orientation, one for permutation). Any suggestions will be helpful


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## Harris Chan (Jun 10, 2007)

http://cat.xula.edu/thinker/memory/strategies/loci

The interactive list of objects to used in the journey method. This is fun! My house isn't quite as structured, so this is great for BLD! Thnx Cin, I really can imagine lol


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## dbeyer (Jun 15, 2007)

When I memorized the 8 cubes for my multi blindfolded attempt. I memorized direct permutation and used 2-cycles and commutators to solve the cube.

My lettering scheme just didn't seem as strong on the corners and edges, even though it's an extention of my lettering schemes for x-centers and t-centers respectively.

I used roman rooms to memorize the cubes. I think I should have memorized edges first in each roman room rather than corners first.

I grabbed cube 5 and started to execute cube 4's memo, that is to say I thought I had indeed grabbed cube for. I missed the cube all together!

Also, I recalled corners first, so I solved "all" of the corners on the cubes ... and then time was growing short ... I just decided to give up on the attempt, know that I hadn't even completed any cube at all haha

I learned a lot from that attempt. The intensity of memorizing and solving that many cubes is even greater than big cubes blindfolded, in my humble opinion.

Good luck to you in your multi bld adventures though!!

Later,
Daniel Beyer


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 18, 2007)

I have one rather odd thing I use for memory that I've never heard of anyone else using, and while it's probably not useful to anyone who isn't already very familiar with hexadecimal, I thought I'd mention it in case it's useful to somebody else out there.

I use 3-cycle (learned from Macky's website). I'm able to memorize and execute orientations very quickly (for me, anyway) by using hexadecimal to memorize them. I use one bit for each position for edges, which requires 3 hexadecimal digits - one digit for top face, one digit for middle layer, and one digit for bottom face. Then I use 4 hexadecimal digits for corner orientation - 2 digits (one for top face, one for bottom face) for those that need to go counterclockwise, and 2 for those that need to go clockwise. So it's just 7 hexadecimal digits for the entire orientation, and I find hexadecimal easier to memorize than decimal because of the letters. Many times the patterns make a word or some other thing that's easy to remember. And it's nice for the corner orientations if you're good with hexadecimal, since you can just count the bits to see if what you've memorized is really legal or not - they either have to be the same or off by a multiple of 3 bits. After a while of using this, you quickly get to where you can just glance at the edges or corners and instantly recognize them as a particular hexadecimal digit, and that's where it gets really fast.


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## Karthik (Jun 25, 2007)

Thats a very cool method!!
Since I memorize CO last and remember it visually I dont even need 4 out of those 7 hex digits.So for orientations all I have to do is remember 3 hexadecimal digits!!
I guess people with a little mathematical inclination will find this awesome!


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## HelloiamChow (Jul 16, 2007)

I use numbers for EP, chinese numbers and tapping the pieces for CP, tapping pieces for EO, and tapping pieces for CO. Yeah, I rely a lot on tapping pieces. I'm working on some pictures for me to remember too, to back up all my numbers.


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## pjk (Jul 16, 2007)

I have switched to a new way for me to memo. I first memo EP just visually. Then I memo CP by repeating the first 4-5 digits of the cycle, and then the rest I memo visually. I memo EO, and finally CO all visually. Memo'ing EO and CO takes me like 5-10 seconds max normally. I memo the entire cube around 90 seconds on avg.


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## aznblur (Jul 25, 2007)

How would you memo 2-cycle where EP and EO are done at the same time (Stefan Pochmann's 2-cycle)?


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## joey (Jul 25, 2007)

You can use the same methods that people are using. You can do visual, or you can use a letter/number scheme. Except each piece has two numbers/letters, one for each orientation.

I would say that a non visual memory for pochmann would lend itself to bigger cubes aswell.


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## pjk (Jul 25, 2007)

aznblur said:


> How would you memo 2-cycle where EP and EO are done at the same time (Stefan Pochmann's 2-cycle)?



I would use images. I was doing this before I moved to 3 cycle. Assign an image to all 22 shoot locations, and memorize a story with those images to create the cycle. I can be done extremely fast with practice.


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## tim (Jul 26, 2007)

After a few experiments i want to describe my problems/experience with memory methods:

I switched from 3-cycle to M2, because my memorization times were really bad, so i had to learn some kind of memory method. I think a memory system based on images needs a lot of practice for people using 3-cycle to be as fast as memorizing pure visually, because you have to encode 3 images (or whatever you've memorized). So i decided to give M2 a try, where you need only one image at a time.
At first i used a pure journey system. I placed one image at one location. After a few tries, i noticed that it took a long time to link my image and my location together. I also had the problem, that M2 requires you to keep track of the m slice's position. So i tried to use 2 images per location. That was even harder to memorize, because i had to invent a mini story, to memorize the order of the two images. It was all very frustrating and i didn't want to practice that much, to become fast at memorizing two images at one location.
So i gave a 'story system' a try. I link my images together by making a funny story. And it was fast from the beginning (i needed less than 2 minutes for memorizing and executing edges the first time. That's almost as fast as my times with 3-cycle + visually memorization). So i think that's the system to go, but i have the m slice problem again. I have to know if the m slice is "correct" or not. At the moment i try to count (not really count, but saying "true", "false", "true", ... after each piece), but that distracts me too much and i can't look ahead well. Do you guys have any idea how to keep track the status of the m slice? I also thought of counting while memorizing in order to memorize the pieces at the m slice (UF, DB) how i'll have to execute them and not what their "real" target is. So i wouldn't have to think while executing. What do you think?

And thanks Daniel for your advices and sharing your experience .


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## hait2 (Jul 26, 2007)

cin said:


> After a few experiments i want to describe my problems/experience with memory methods:
> 
> I switched from 3-cycle to M2, because my memorization times were really bad, so i had to learn some kind of memory method. I think a memory system based on images needs a lot of practice for people using 3-cycle to be as fast as memorizing pure visually, because you have to encode 3 images (or whatever you've memorized). So i decided to give M2 a try, where you need only one image at a time.
> At first i used a pure journey system. I placed one image at one location. After a few tries, i noticed that it took a long time to link my image and my location together. I also had the problem, that M2 requires you to keep track of the m slice's position. So i tried to use 2 images per location. That was even harder to memorize, because i had to invent a mini story, to memorize the order of the two images. It was all very frustrating and i didn't want to practice that much, to become fast at memorizing two images at one location.
> ...




i don't know much about the m2 method, but this seems like an elegant solution that i would use
when memorizing your images, you could switch between day/night as a background, corresponding to the location of the M slice. 
it would be easy i guess if you link your images to the state of time ( i don't know what images you use so i can't really help with specifics)

just an idea =)


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## Jack (Jul 26, 2007)

I have been trying M2 for with 3 cycles for corners recently, and parity was easy to recognise because I would solve the corners first and know whether there was one by seeing if the corners had parity first.


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## tim (Jul 26, 2007)

Thanks . Manipulating my images with something like day-night is an interesting idea, but day, light won't work. Perhaps setting parts of my story on fire? I'll give it a try

I don't have fixed images. It's more like the word groups Matyas mentioned.

For example: UF (nature under water) -> FR (kitchen) -> BL (Musik)

So my story would look like:
A fish cooks a microphone.
or
I'm swimming under water and seeing a kitchen from a sunken ship in which a dj uses a few pots to make music.

I think you see, why day-night won't work . But thanks for your idea


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## AvGalen (Jul 26, 2007)

Can't you just lift/drop your feet to keep track of the M-slice while solving? Is it really something you need to memorize?


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## tim (Jul 26, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> Can't you just lift/drop your feet to keep track of the M-slice while solving? Is it really something you need to memorize?



Also a good idea, but difficult to visualize (you always have to watch at your feet ).
I don't have to memorize it, but for two targets (BD, UF) i need to know it. Perhaps i'll colorize the part of my story if the m slice is correct, otherwise my image is just gray.
The reason why i want to memorize it, is: I want to make the execution as thinking free as possible to avoid errors. It should just be a mechanical procedure. An image pops into my mind => i execute an algorithm and nothing more.


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## AvGalen (Jul 26, 2007)

If you don't need to memorize it, I would seriously give the lift/drop foot (easier than both feet) idea a go.

If you just lift your toes as far as possible, you will feel a certain strain on your feet. I am sure that after a couple of solves you won't have to "think" about the position of the M-slice. You will just feel the strain (wrong) or not and act accordingly without thinking.

If you don't have to memorize it, don't memorize it!


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## tim (Jul 26, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> If you don't need to memorize it, I would seriously give the lift/drop foot (easier than both feet) idea a go.
> 
> If you just lift your toes as far as possible, you will feel a certain strain on your feet. I am sure that after a couple of solves you won't have to "think" about the position of the M-slice. You will just feel the strain (wrong) or not and act accordingly without thinking.
> 
> If you don't have to memorize it, don't memorize it!



Ah, i see . I thought you meant memorizing the state of my foot while creating the story. I didn't thought of this "real life" stuff . I'll definitely give it a try. This will look funny at a competion .


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 26, 2007)

The lift / drop your feet thing is very clever, Arnaud! I hadn't thought of doing something like that. You could use one foot for parity, and the other for the M2 slice.

One wonders if you could carry that farther by doing various things to "memorize" - touching your tongue to a certain tooth to remember a certain combination, for instance. I wonder if such will ever be banned as "cheating" (although it would be hard to enforce!).


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## dbeyer (Jul 26, 2007)

In my humble opinion, you can not be deemed as a cheat unless you glance, peek, feel, or otherwise make a physical reference to the cube with the assistance of a partner, or your own senses. Yet anything that you can do to make this blindfolded cubing event easier for yourself couldn't be banned.

Seriously though, I wouldn't want to stand upside down on my head just to remember that I had a parity. How you position yourself whilst solving could actually hinder your mobility.

There are much better systems, such as Letter Pairs, Person Object systems, Journey/Roman Room, peg system. 

A trick that I use, is to recall in pairs when using a system like M2 or Commutators, even if the recall is visual. If you recall in pairs, everything on the cube is balanced.


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## AvGalen (Jul 26, 2007)

I actually use my feet for something else sometimes. If I have a couple of small cycles (3+4+4 edges for example) I would put my left foot in a 30 degrees angle and my right foot in a 40 degrees angle.

And I don't see why this would be banned. People use their fingers to count and/or tap pieces. What if someone decided to use one hand / 5 fingers to remember 5 pieces and solved with only 1 hand?

Blindfolded doesn't mean you can't use the rest of your body!


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## LaffyTaffyKidd (Jul 26, 2007)

I'm confused on how would you memorize the cube with hexadecimals... I know what they are, but just don't get it. Could someone explain to me please


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## hait2 (Jul 27, 2007)

LaffyTaffyKidd said:


> I'm confused on how would you memorize the cube with hexadecimals... I know what they are, but just don't get it. Could someone explain to me please



i used to do this for edge orientation and thought it was clever ( i don't anymore, it takes a little too long for me, but that's personal preference. my current system for EO is just remember a general gist of what it looks like. so like 1, 2, 3, 4, for singly incorrect edges, horizontal/vertical/topleft/topright/bottomleft/bottom right for two incorrect edges, A D C V for 3 incorrect edges based on what shape they look like or "all" for .. all. it's still 3 things to memorize but no nasty conversions to do in your head. )
what you do is, each edge is either correct or incorrect in terms of orientation. 1 or 0. assign whatever to a state. I used 0 for oriented (so i can ignore it) and 1 for unoriented. 

so for example, you're looking at edges 1234 and 2 and 3 are unoriented. you would remember 0110 because 1 and 4 are oriented (so they're 0's); 2 and 3 are not (so they're 1's). 

now this 0110 number is a binary number =) it's a 6. you'd just remember a 6 and since there's only 1 way to write 6 in binary (110) then you know orientation of the first 4 edges with 1 number

if you have like 1001, that's a 9, 1111 is an f (15 in hex), etc.


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## LaffyTaffyKidd (Jul 27, 2007)

ty hait, but do u think that hexadecimals could work for corner/edge permutations?

Nevermind.. thats a really retarded question! (it won't work obviously)


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## clincher (Sep 15, 2007)

How would that system work for corner orientation? I like that hexadecimals method but my BLD method doesn't have an EO step someone reply please!!


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 15, 2007)

clincher said:


> How would that system work for corner orientation? I like that hexadecimals method but my BLD method doesn't have an EO step someone reply please!!



Even though it's probably slower than pure visual, I still use it for corner orientation.

I use 4 digits. The way I do it, the first (most significant) digit is for bottom corners that need to go counterclockwise, the second digit is for top corners that need to go counterclockwise, the third digit is for bottom corners that need to go clockwise, and the fourth digit is for top corners that need to go clockwise. The first (most significant) bit in any given digit is for the corner in the BL position of that particular layer, the second bit is BR, the third bit is FR, and the fourth is FL. You can arrange them any way you want, but this works well for me.

So if you had UFL UFR DFR DBR DBL needing to go counterclockwise and UBL DFL needing to go clockwise, you'd have E318. I build it by doing all the pieces from one layer first, then the other. It may seem strange, but it works well for me. So I'd look at the top, see the 3 pieces that need rotating, and say to myself "0308". Then I'd look at the bottom and fill in the rest, "E318". Then I memorize those 4 digits and I'm good to go. Nice thing about it, if you can "see" hexadecimal well, is you can count the bits in the first 2 digits and the bits in the last 2 digits, and if they don't differ by a multiple of 3, you know you messed up. I had to work with hexadecimal A LOT a number of years ago, and so it's pretty instantaneous for me to convert from bits to hexadecimal and back, which is why it works so well for me.


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## LarsN (Oct 25, 2007)

CO, CP and EO are all visual for me, but I've been using a vocal method for EP. All edges are given both a consonant and a vowel. 12 consonants (BDFKLMNPRSTX) and 11 vowels (the starting edge only needs a consonant). Unfortunatly there is only 6 vowels in english (9 in danish) but for the other edges I use a vowel combo (IO, AI). Then using 3-cycle you come up with something like this: BUDALIT(first cycle), KIOR(second cycle). Just repeat these words out loud.That way I find the vocal sounds much easier to remember and you know that a cycle of even egdes will always end with a vowel.
Sometimes you even get real word. Very easy to remember.


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## Jack (Oct 29, 2007)

Okay, I have a question about memorizing. I tried timing my edges using 3 cycle compared to edges using M2, and M2 was about twice as fast. I am getting faster at memorizing, but my solving usually takes around twice as long as memorization using 3 cycle. So I want to switch to M2, but I don't know any way to memorize M2 other than with colours (where you take the 2 colours of an edge and turn it into an image). Right now I memorize visual for EO, CO, and CP then remember EP with letter pairs (how most people remember big cubes). I am really slow at memorizing with colours, so does anyone know a method using letter pairs that could work for remembering orientation and permutation at the same time? Thanks!


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 29, 2007)

Yes - I just realized this as I was playing with Chris Hardwick's all-commutator method for 3x3x3. (I was wondering the same thing as you until I realized this last night.) You can use a method like is typically used for big cubes BLD. Assign letters to each cubie face on the cube. So for edges, you'd have 24 - A-X. Now, just memorize your first face (I always start with A), and then see where that cubie face needs to go. And so on. When you're done, you'll have only memorized about half of the letters. I just started playing with this, so I'm not sure, but it looks like you do have to pay attention to the end of a cycle, wrapping back to the first one, in case you have a piece flip to account for at the end.

The same can be done for corners. Again 24 letters for the 8 corner pieces.

Really pretty neat - I don't know why I never saw that before - it seems so obvious now.


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## tim (Oct 29, 2007)

Mike Hughey said:


> The same can be done for corners. Again 24 letters for the 8 corner pieces.



If you use a fixed buffer (like in M2), you only need 21 letters for 7 corners and 22 letters for 11 edges.


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## Kenneth (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm trying to learn a method where:

----------
Obsolete, look here for the changes I have made for this part.

_RUF and RDF are R-corners, RU, RF and RD are R-edges (the colour of the R-side)
FUL and FDL are F-corners, FU, FL and FD are F-edges
LUB and LDB are L-corners, LU, LB and LD are L-edges
BUR and BDR are B-corners, BU, BR and BD are B-edges_
------------

If the peice shall go to the U-layer, it is a T-piece (top), if it is going to the D-layer it's a D-peice and for edges there are also M-pieces for the middle layer ones.

Here I'm using "T" instead of "U" and that because T is a consonant, U is not and that is important as you wil see below (the rest of the faces has got conconant letters so those are OK)

OK, that's for permutation but I also memorise orientation and for that i use three wovels, A, E and O.

----------
Obsolete, look here for the changes I have made for this part.
_A is for oriented peices, E is for clockvise corners and O is for counter clockvise corners and unoriented edges._
----------

The wovels I put in the midle of the "pice charstring" I use. A peice can for example be "BET", "RAM" or "ROD".

Then, to memorise the small proto words I get from that I use normal words (mostly Sweidish ones =), Some are as you can see above already words like that but some are not. "LAM" makes for example "LAME" and so on.

So, you remember normal words, but you can directly from the word "decompile" the positioning and orientation needed for the peice.


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## philkt731 (Nov 8, 2007)

Mike Hughey said:


> clincher said:
> 
> 
> > How would that system work for corner orientation? I like that hexadecimals method but my BLD method doesn't have an EO step someone reply please!!
> ...


First, why do u switch between layers for this number? Also, how (and how fast) do you translate this when youo are executing? Do u usually solve two at a time, or what?


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 8, 2007)

philkt731 said:


> First, why do u switch between layers for this number? Also, how (and how fast) do you translate this when youo are executing? Do u usually solve two at a time, or what?



I guess all I'm trying to accomplish with the order of the digits is to keep the counterclockwise pieces grouped together, and the clockwise pieces grouped together. That way, I can immediately see if it's an impossible memorization or not (has to be a difference of a multiple of 3 between the number of bits in the two halves of the number). There's no real reason why you have to memorize in this order, though - if you decide to try this, I recommend you use whatever order works best for you.

I'm really fast with hexadecimal - that comes from having done some machine language coding back in the 80's writing some video games for the TRS-80 Color Computer. So translating back and forth was always very fast for me. But really, eventually it just becomes a pattern that you "see", so I don't think my hexadecimal experience means all that much any more. I probably take about 20 seconds on average to do corner orientation in the execution phase, but keep in mind that I'm not that fast at BLD - I typically run 3:00 to 3:30 for an overall solve, of which 2 minutes is execution, so 20 seconds for CO is really not bad, relatively, for me.

As for how I do it, I prefer to do them in 3's, if that's possible. If I have 3 CCW and 3 CW, I'll almost always do the CCW first, then the CW. Also, if I have 4 CCW and 1 CW, I'll do the easiest 3 CCW first, then do the other 2. But if I have 4 CCW and 4 CW, if it's reasonable I'll try to do them 4 at a time by doing one layer at a time. (But if they're grouped 3 on a layer, I'll still do 3 at a time, then the last 2.) I guess it's a little chaotic, but it works for me.


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## philkt731 (Nov 8, 2007)

ok i have another question, hen theres 1 corner on top that needs to go CCW, and two adjacent on the bottom that need to go CCw, does anyone ever AUF and then rotate the cube to do all three at the same time, or what else would you do?
Or if you needed to do 1 5 7 CCW, what would you do?

Also , for EO, you could do something like Mike's hexadecimal and have a three digit number. The first one for the top layer with order of significance, B, L, R, F. The second digit for the E edges, with order BL BR FR FL. The thrid digit being the bottom layer, with order, B, L, R ,F. So F39 would be the same as (1 2 3 4 5 8 9 11) (using Macky's number systme)

Lastly, I've been testing a Roman rooms method for CP, replacing the rooms with rooms/ objects in the upstairs of my house (ie. my sis's room, picture of my mom, stairs, office, my room, light switch, parents room, bathroom), but how can I do a good method for EP, since Roman rooms usually only has 8, and anyway my upstairs only has those 8 things, and I probably shoulldn't use the same setting as CP. What do you guys use, who don't use numbers, or transate the numbers to something else easier to memorize?


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## AvGalen (Nov 9, 2007)

If 1 5 7 = UFL DFL DBR I would just do F'

For Roman Rooms EP (12 edges, 8 locations) you can either use pairs (2 edges in 1 location) or use the floor and ceiling of the room. Each room has 8 corners and 6 middle spots on the walls(4)/floor(1)/ceiling(1)


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## magicsquares (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm sorry but can anyone help me on how Roman Rooms are actually used for blindfold cubing? I don't know how you use those locations... For example, how do you memorize that this edge goes there.. An explanation like that... Sorry for the dumb question.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 9, 2007)

I use Roman Rooms for big cubes only; I just use visual memorization for 3x3x3 permutations. For big cubes, I use letters A-X (I guess you'd only need A-L for 3x3x3) and put them in pairs, like Chris Hardwick does (see http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/memorizing.html), and then combine several of those images for a single location in my room, interacting with the object inside that room. For instance, I use my living room (I'm a keyboardist, as you will be able to tell), so I have spots in the room corresponding to my synthesizer stack, organ, and piano as three of the locations. Then I can imagine the various images somehow interacting with the items. For instance, this morning I did one where I had Atom Ant and Barney Rubble playing a duet on the synths (A and B, a 2-cycle), and I also had Fred Flintstone sitting on the bench of the piano but facing away from it playing a QiX videogame machine with a ROdent named Linus (F Q X R O L - I got 6 in a single location). By combining several items at each location, I can usually fit a whole 4x4x4 (except corners) in a single Roman Room. I have a couple of other locations in the adjacent room in our house (our dining room) as extras in case I run out. I guess I'm actually using a combination of Roman Rooms and journeys for this (which I suspect anyone does who does this), because I have a standard "journey" through my room that I always use. (I guess I should mention that I've only been doing this for a few days now, but I've probably used it on 20 solve attempts at this point.)

I would think the Roman Rooms method would be great for MultiBLD; I'll probably give that a try sometime after the Virginia Open. (I gave away too many of my cubes about a month ago, so I didn't have enough 3x3x3's to try MultiBLD until very recently.) For MultiBLD, I'd want to be able to store the whole thing, so I'd probably put my CO hex at one location, EO hex at another location, and then CP would probably take 2 locations or so and EP 3, on average. So one room should be plenty for a single cube. I'll have to make more rooms to do this, though - so far I've been going with just 2 (since that's all I need for a 5x5x5).

Oh, and by the way, I do EO exactly like philkt731 suggested. And I would do the same as Arnaud for 1 5 7 CCW, except that I would actually do B' instead of F' because I do my orientations with U' R' U R U' R' U R instead of doing them on the top or bottom. R and U edges are fastest for orienting corners for me.


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## magicsquares (Nov 10, 2007)

Ahh.. So Roman Rooms is just like a journey but it all happens in a single room or something like that. Did I get it right?


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## AvGalen (Nov 10, 2007)

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTIM_06.htm



> There is no need to restrict this information to rooms: you could use a landscape or a town you know well, and populate it with memory images.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 11, 2007)

Another quote from the same article:



> The Roman Room technique is most effective for storing lists of unlinked information, while the journey method is better for storing lists of ordered items.



Technically, the Roman Room technique is not really appropriate for things like memorizing a cube. But by performing a journey in the room, it becomes the journey method, and is therefore quite useful. As it turns out, using a Roman Room for a journey is a pretty good technique.

I find the Roman Room approach useful because it compartmentalizes the journey rather nicely. You can move on to a different room for the next type of pieces, for instance. (Or perhaps the next cube, for MultiBLD.)


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## isaganiesteron (Nov 12, 2007)

what i dont seem to get and i have not found any information about is memorizing using pochmanns methods.. more on the edge permutation, because when the edges change orientation while permuting them, how can you memorize this?


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## masterofthebass (Nov 12, 2007)

I've said this a bunch elsewhere, but I doubt you could find it from the search. I started BLD with Pochmann's old method and couldn't think of a memo system. I finally just practiced with color pairs enough that I was able to do it. I just memorize white-red, blue-yellow, etc. It's not a great memo-system, but it works for 1 cube pretty reliably. Another option is to assign each of the 12 edges 2 images or letters, one for each orientation. You would need to have 24 letters or images to make a story with. As long as you have 24 things to memorize, you can theoretically use anything. Any of these methods can work for bigger cubes while using r2.


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## Marcell (Nov 12, 2007)

I learned it like this: Assign words to the cubies using the first two letters of the colors on each cubie, like White-Red = WR = war(Or: world record  ), RedWhite = RW = row... or whatever you like. Use these words to make a story in your mind. This is actually very close to the images variant.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 12, 2007)

Somewhere in another thread, Mátyás mentioned that he used the colors to memorize, coming up with images to go with those colors - using medical things for "white-red", for instance. So apparently that's not too bad of a memorization system.


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## masterofthebass (Nov 12, 2007)

Yeah, and he had like 500 images for each piece or something crazy like that. I think his memo system is so refined that it's almost impossible to make a mistake in memo.


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## Pedro (Nov 12, 2007)

and he told me that optimal time for memo would be 3 seconds 

how's it even possible to see all the pieces in 3 seconds?


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## joey (Nov 12, 2007)

masterofthebass said:


> Yeah, and he had like 500 images for each piece or something crazy like that. I think his memo system is so refined that it's almost impossible to make a mistake in memo.



He DNFs just as much as everyone, if not more. He is just capable of getting it right when he needs it! Which is what counts! 

And to be honest, whats the fun in BLD if you are sure you get it right every time


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 19, 2007)

idk know how Matyas all the stuff he does and to be honest im not sure anyone will ever know because he doest say much about his methods. he's not THAT godly good but he is really good. and yeah memo in 3 seconds? wtf?? lol


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## malcolm (Nov 21, 2007)

I find it useful to use two seperate methods for corners and edges, so you don't get confused, e.g. rather than memoing 20 numbers, i memo 12 for edges and do corners in shapes. Im about 50% faster this way than pure numbers.


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## cmhardw (Nov 21, 2007)

malcolm said:


> I find it useful to use two seperate methods for corners and edges, so you don't get confused, e.g. rather than memoing 20 numbers, i memo 12 for edges and do corners in shapes. Im about 50% faster this way than pure numbers.



I completely agree. I'm in the process of learning a separate memory system for corners. It's not really all that different from what I already use, it's still letter pairs. But I will use a completely different set of prepared words/images for corners than for edges. I think that might make me faster for 3x3, I've experimented with it a bit.

I would also be very interested to hear what Matyas does. I personally like the atmosphere in cubing better when everybody shares information. But Matyas I can understand how with your memory method being a huge portion of your speed that wanting to stay competitive, especially with the progress in cubing in general over the past year, means keeping that method secret. So I'm not trying to put you in a bad light, I can completely understand why you would want to keep your method secret, and I respect that entirely.

But that doesn't stop me from wondering about how you do it ;-)

From what I understand in a previous post by Matyas he uses 500 prepared words for each piece. This works out to 12,000 prepared words for the edges of a 4x4x4 and 6,000 for the edges of a 3x3x3. From what I understand most memory masters for speed cards and numbers and the like stop in the 2000-3000 image range. I also remember recent debate within the last year or so of some memory masters considering trying to develop a 10,000 image system. Since Matyas uses more than that this has already been done.

Matyas, you're already without question at the top of the cubing hall of fame, why not also do it for memory sports as well? I see no reason why you couldn't adapt your memo system for all their events and be just as world class over there as you are for cubing. This question may be silly if you've already tried it, but have you tried memorizing a deck of cards? I think you'd be absolutely phenomenal at it.

Just my opinion,
Chris


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## malcolm (Nov 21, 2007)

Yeah, my corners are very good can memo permutation in 15-30 seconds mostly, but edges are v slow more like a min-min:30 need more practice, and might try learning a better method.


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## tim (Nov 21, 2007)

cmhardw said:


> malcolm said:
> 
> 
> > I find it useful to use two seperate methods for corners and edges, so you don't get confused, e.g. rather than memoing 20 numbers, i memo 12 for edges and do corners in shapes. Im about 50% faster this way than pure numbers.
> ...



You used the same images for corners and edges? No wonder, you got confused .

Malcolm: The reason why you're faster with "shapes" than with numbers is just the lack of practice with numbers.



cmhardw said:


> I would also be very interested to hear what Matyas does. I personally like the atmosphere in cubing better when everybody shares information. But Matyas I can understand how with your memory method being a huge portion of your speed that wanting to stay competitive, especially with the progress in cubing in general over the past year, means keeping that method secret. So I'm not trying to put you in a bad light, I can completely understand why you would want to keep your method secret, and I respect that entirely.


I agree with you, that it would be cool, if everyone shares his methods/secrets. But i made following experience: Someone asked me, which method i use for memorization. I answered "images + journey". But this guy didn't want to think that much, so he kept asking things like "which image do you use for the UF piece". I explained him, that it doesn't make sense if i tell him all my images. If i didn't tell him anything about my method, i wouldn't have been buged by him. That's a good reason for me not to tell people what my memory system is.
(Joey and Pedro, don't worry, i don't mean you )



cmhardw said:


> From what I understand in a previous post by Matyas he uses 500 prepared words for each piece. This works out to 12,000 prepared words for the edges of a 4x4x4 and 6,000 for the edges of a 3x3x3. From what I understand most memory masters for speed cards and numbers and the like stop in the 2000-3000 image range. I also remember recent debate within the last year or so of some memory masters considering trying to develop a 10,000 image system. Since Matyas uses more than that this has already been done.


I wouldn't see the 500 words as different images. These words also include verbs and adjectives. I believe you just create the story intuitively without prepared images (which is the case for most memory masters), which needs a lot of practice of course .


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## Pedro (Nov 21, 2007)

yep, from what I understood he has 500 words in a "class", like, medical stuff, maybe water stuff, fire, dunno 

I was thinking about this like 20 min ago, getting back home...

the memory guys use a PAO method for cards (at least most of them )
so, they have 52 persons, 52 actions and 52 objects...

when combined, those 156 "things" can form 132600 images (!)...

so, they kinda use that much images, but they don't think about it that way  haha

oh, and Tim, I don't remember you "hiding" your memory system from me  you always helped me and answered my questions

but I can't say the same about Kai... haha...just kidding
I asked him once how me memorised and he said "access denied"
but after I decided to use images and journeys/roman rooms, he told me what he uses...I'm not sure if I can tell everybody, so...

but yeah, it would be really cool to know how Matyas memorises, but as Chris already said, it's his "right" to keep it to him, if he wants that...

I once decided to analyse his 54.xx solve to try to figure out how he solves...but he asked me not to do it, explained his point and I agreed


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## hait2 (Nov 27, 2007)

Pedro said:


> I was thinking about this like 20 min ago, getting back home...
> 
> the memory guys use a PAO method for cards (at least most of them )
> so, they have 52 persons, 52 actions and 52 objects...
> ...



That's pretty interesting actually, as that would mean if you memo edges with pao (like I do), you'd have over a thousand images you could create! add in a journey system, and you're getting ridiculous numbers (assuming "X Y'ing a Z" at location a1 is a different image than at location a2)!

pretty neat
somewhat related: http://www.quirkology.com/USA/Experiment_totalRecall.shtml


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## Lofty (Nov 28, 2007)

I have not yet attempted a BLD solve, I'm still getting myself accustomed to the Pochmann Method sighted but I am thinking of assigning an image to each piece and then modifying the image so that I know which sticker is in my buffer. Like if it is green zombifying my image, putting it under water if it is blue, setting it on fire etc.
Eventually I will add a verb to each piece but that will be after I can do it with just images.
Edit: Combined with Roman room (more Roman my whole house) and this method my first attempt I went through the cycle once and was off by two switched edges I think from wrong setup and un-setup. It was one cycle that had all 12 edges if it had multiple cycles I would have gotten confused.


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Dec 22, 2007)

For some strange reason I had ALOT of trouble comming up with images for the pochmann system, so I had to come up with something else which is alot more difficult, [letters+visual]

if anyone has any suggestions for an alternative memo method that works good with pochmann, fill me in, and no I didn't like most of the ones i read in here, other than the pochmann images thing, but I seem to draw blanks everytime i try to think up some images to assign, i dont know why! hah

also what might help me is a list of images you use for pochmann memo, but why would anyone help me anyway?


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## tim (Dec 22, 2007)

car, tree, clown, teacher, armee, bee, tennis player, einstein, ship, knight, tent, bicycle, ...

just to name a few .


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Dec 22, 2007)

tim said:


> car, tree, clown, teacher, armee, bee, tennis player, einstein, ship, knight, tent, bicycle, ...
> 
> just to name a few .



hmm... strangely, i never thought of getting objects and relating them to pieces, rather than trying to find objects for the pieces... if that makes sense


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## Leo (Dec 23, 2007)

I havent actually gotten a BLD solve yet because of memo problems, so Ive been trying to think of one to work for me. I kind liked being able to use numbers in 3 cycles, but hated the set up move limitations so I switched to Pochmann, which doesn't really have set up move limitations other than making sure you dont mess up the corners or edges in the shooting position.

So I was thinking of a way to incorporate numbers even though it solves by stickers, which would be a lot more numbers than 20 cubies. What if I kept the numbering system of the cubie positions Like for edges 1 =UF 2 = UR etc.. but instead gave the cubie in the position I shoot from the number it belongs to and the sticker color I would be shooting.

Ex: I shoot my corner stickers from LBU to DFR and I hold the cube with Y on top O in front. Pretend that the RGW cubie in the position I shoot from with the red sticker on LBU which means it needs to go to BLD, I would memorize it as 8R, which gives me the position it needs to go to and the sticker I would be shooting.

Sorry if this makes no sense or won't even work, its 3 a.m so I'm tired. Don't ridicule me too much if this is bad


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## AvGalen (Dec 23, 2007)

If you like numbers, why not use
1 = UF, 13 = FU, 2 = UR, 14 = RU, etc (12 * 2 = 24 numbers for edges)
1 = UFL, 9 = FLU, 17 = LUF, 2 = UFR, 10 = FRU, 18 = RUF, etc (8 * 3 = 24 numbers for corners)

Or use letters (1=A, 2=B, etc)


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## Leo (Dec 23, 2007)

Wouldn't that be more memorizing than 20 cubies? Actually I guess not since its not like you solve every sticker on every cubie, so it would be the same. Thanks


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm having more success with my newer memo method. Although slower, it's more efficient for me.

EDIT: I use pure visual, I forgot to include that in my post which is really silly considering it was the focus of my post.


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## FatMummy (Dec 27, 2007)

Can anyone give me example of the Roman-room method? I don't get it. I'm new to blindfold cubing.


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## Pedro (Dec 27, 2007)

Roman rooms is about the same as the journeys system

you have a well know room, where you have some locations

say it's your bedroom

then you have a wardrobe, a table, your bed, the window, and so on

then you use those locations to put your images, so you can easily remember everything just by walking mentally through your room


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah, the way we use it, Roman Rooms essentially is a Journey system.

Originally, Roman Rooms were used for memorizing non-ordered lists, so you could just go to whatever location in your room in whatever order and find something. But of course, when doing blindfold cubing, we need the list to be ordered, so we have little choice but to construct a journey through the room.

I usually put something in each corner, something against each wall, and something in the middle of the room. Usually there's some object at each location for the memorized things to interact with. So in my living room, I have a synthesizer stack, a toy horse, a bookcase, a piano, a large empty space in the middle, an organ, a torchiere light, a sofa, and a stack of music. (Can you tell I'm a musician?) Then I can have the first person in the memorization riding the horse or playing the piano, or something similar, to make it easier to memorize. I always go in the same order in each room I use, starting in one corner and zigzagging through the room. That way, I don't have to think about what the proper journey should be when I make a new room.

I currently only have 3 rooms - I want to make some more.


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## FatMummy (Dec 27, 2007)

So, for a 3x3x3, how many rooms do I need? I use Macky's guide. For example, if I have EP: (1 6) (2 4 8 5 7) (3 9 11 10 12), how do I apply the Roman rooms method? What do I have to put in each location of the room? Can you please explain the process of memorizing in detail? Excuse me if my question sounds stupid because I've just started blindfold cubing a week ago and this is the first time I've ever heard about Roman-rooms or Journey system.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 27, 2007)

I don't use Roman Rooms for 3x3x3 unless I'm doing multi BLD. And even then only when doing more than 2 cubes. And I've only tried that once - I tried 3 cubes a week ago and got the first 2 right and the third was off by a corner 5-cycle because I forgot to do it (as soon as I removed the blindfold I realized in horror that I had forgotten to do the CP, and I still had perfect memory of what still needed to be done - I put the blindfold back on and finished it just to prove it, but of course it was a DNF). For a regular 3x3x3, I still find it much faster to just do visual memorization. I keep occasionally trying to use a memory method, but I'm just to slow at it for a regular 3x3x3.

But if you want to do Roman Rooms, basically you just need to encode the information somehow and place that information at the locations in your room.

To show how I do it, for the EP example you gave, I letter 1-12 according to Macky's guide (I use Macky's method most of the time) as letters A-L. So I would start at my first location, the synthesizers, and use my person for 1 (A), "Atom Ant", and then the person for 6 (F), "Fred Flintstone". So I might have Atom Ant standing on Fred's nose while Fred plays a lick on the synthesizer. End of cycle, so I'd move on to the second location. 2 (B) = "Barney Rubble", 4 (D) and 8 (H) - I'd come up with a word to go with that 2-letter pair (that's a tough one) like maybe "dahlia", 5 (E) and 7 (G) = "egg", so I'd imagine Barney Rubble on the toy horse (my second location), holding a flower and eating an egg. Then the third location (bookcase) - 3 (C) = "Casper the friendly ghost", 9 (I) and 11 (K) = "ick", and 10 (J) and 12 (L) = "jail". I'd probably imagine Casper the ghost saying "ick" because he's been put in jail, and I'd imagine him in one of the bookcase shelves with bars in front of him, holding onto them with his tongue hanging out (saying "ick" because he's stuck there).

For just a regular 3x3x3, the cycles are all fairly short (no more than 12 for EP, less for corners), so I would pretty much never use more than one location for a single cycle. But you could, if you found it easier. So if you had an 11-cycle, you could put the first 5 at one location and the next 6 at the second location. If you're going to split a cycle like this (you pretty much need to for bigger cubes), it's helpful to use the same starting letter for each piece. So if I had an 11-cycle starting at 1 and I were going to split it, I'd have Atom Ant interact with 2 "words" in the first location, and then with 3 more "words" in the second location.

Notice how nice it is to use 2-letter pairs for a 3-cycle method like Macky's. Each "word" contains the next 2 pieces that go with your first one to make up the next 3-cycle. So you just progress through the memorization one word at a time, performing one 3-cycle per word.

To memorize a whole 3x3x3, I put EP in however many locations are needed, one per cycle, then CP in however many locations are needed, one per cycle, then use one location for EO and one more for CO, finding some "visual" way to store my hexadecimal representation of the orientations in each of those locations.

That's how I do it, anyway. There are lots of other ways you could come up with to do it - you just need to find an encoding method that works for you.


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## FatMummy (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks a lot, Mike. I got the idea.


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## aznblur (Dec 29, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlNiAqYN6ZQ

'Nuff said.

Now if that guy knew how to solve a cube.


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## FatMummy (Dec 29, 2007)

Chris said he uses Letter pair 1 syllable words for 2x2 and 3x3. Why is that? What's the difference between "Letter pair images" and "Letter pair 1 syllable words" (http://speedcubing.com/chris/memorizing.html)?


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 31, 2007)

He explains the difference in this thread:
http://www.speedsolving.com/showthread.php?t=2053

The 1-syllable words seem to be beneficial because he can rely on memorizing the sound of the words for a short time. It's a really interesting idea.


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## Leo (Jan 1, 2008)

Can anyone explain to me what people mean when they say they use color pairs, like in an example/explanation?


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## Karthik (Jan 12, 2008)

I have been able to Blind solve the Rubik's Cube since March last year.Here are my thoughts, experiences about memory methods I have tried.
When I first learnt to solve, I tried to memorize the way Stefan describes on his site.I couldn't really get fast memo times with that.So I switched over to alphabets(I found numbers too abstract to use).
So now I tried to make weird words on the fly using the alphabet sequences I encountered.Later I adapted the PAO method with single letter pairs(60 images) and my memo times reduced drastically.
Presently I use the PAO method with double-letter pairs.This comes to around 600 images.(I got my first sub-2 with this yesterday)
One odd thing I do is that first I really rush through my memo not thinking much and giving lot of time for the images to register in my mind.Once I am done, I run through a very quick revision.This way I feel the images are retained better than doing a single slower round.
Next thing I would like to try are Chris' one syllable method and refine my memo system for big cube BLD and multi-BLD.


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## Leo (Jan 12, 2008)

For now I'm just memorizing which edges are unoriented (usually connecting them with a shape) memorizing which way the unoriented corners are pointing and then memorize the corners in cycles with letters, and edge cycles with numbers.


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## skinnyandweak (Jan 21, 2008)

can someone explain what hexadecimals are and how to use them for memo? i'm currently using 3-cycle and it takes a me a really long time to for memo, since i just use the regular numbers, and that needs to change.


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## AvGalen (Jan 29, 2008)

hexidecimals are a way to use numbers
instead of counting from 0 to 9 (10 numbers so decimal) you count from 0 to F (16 "numbers" so hexidecimal).
Because 16 is 2^4 you can also write it as 4 binary numbers.
Example: B (hexidecimal) equals 11 (decimal) equals 1011 (binary).
This means that you can store 4 binary states (on, off, on, on) in 1 hexidecimal state.


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## Leo (Feb 15, 2008)

Hey, I want to switch to original Pochmann or M2, but my main problem is memorizing by sticker. I can execute a lot faster with Pochmann but I can't think of a way to memorize which sticker will end up in the buffer. I've looked into color pairs for images but I don't see how that will tell you which color of the pair is in the buffer. Any ideas?


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## Pedro (Feb 15, 2008)

well, you just pick you sticker at the buffer and see where it goes...

then see which sticker is that that location...this is the one which will be in the buffer...

if you solve yellow top, blue fron
and you have blue/red at DF (suppose your buffer is DF)
you set up with U R U'
do the 'alg' M2
undo setup, U R' U'

the sticker that was at FR (an not RF) will be now at your buffer...

it's not that hard to follow the stickers


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## Leo (Feb 15, 2008)

I know that much, the problem is memorizing which sticker will end up in the buffer position along with its location, because one sticker cannot give you the information of where it belongs. I suppose I could memorize every location as I do in 3 cycle and that way I would know where the sticker in the buffer belongs. Sorry if I'm unclear.


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## Pedro (Feb 15, 2008)

oh, right...I got what you mean...

you have a blue sticker, but you don't know which piece it is...

well...it's kinda though at the start...but you can use persons for the pieces, so each piece has 2 persons, and each stickers is a defined one, so you'll always know where that person belongs...

I can memorise in stickers for one cube, without the PA stuff...I guess you can do it if you practice...

but probably getting used to a memory system before you get used to memorising visually is better...Tim uses PA for one cube too, and he's fast


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## Leo (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks Pedro, I'll try the two images per piece thing. 2*20=40 so I have to come up with quite a few images . If all else fails I can memorize where the piece goes and by knowing which sticker was first in the buffer I can find out which is now in the buffer. That requires more thinking though so hopefully it doesn't come to that.


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## malcolm (Feb 16, 2008)

You need 3 images for corners, so its 48 not 40, but you can use the same 24 for edges as for corners


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## Marcell (Feb 16, 2008)

malcolm said:


> you can use the same 24 for edges as for corners



Of course this is possible, but using a different memo system (or at least different pictures) for edges and corners is fundamental for a fast and safe memo IMHO.


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## tim (Feb 16, 2008)

Marcell said:


> malcolm said:
> 
> 
> > you can use the same 24 for edges as for corners
> ...



Why? IMHO no.


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## joey (Feb 16, 2008)

Different memo system: no
Different images: suggested

but hey, what do I know? I suck using images. I think Tim has been giving me bad advice, cos he knows I would get up to his level quickly


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## Marcell (Feb 16, 2008)

tim said:


> Marcell said:
> 
> 
> > malcolm said:
> ...



Chris wrote this about his one syllable latter pair words system... Dunno, I've always used different memo for edges and corners.


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## tim (Feb 16, 2008)

Marcell said:


> tim said:
> 
> 
> > Marcell said:
> ...



So why did you write "IMHO"? Actually it isn't your opinion.


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Feb 18, 2008)

This has probably been answered in here already, but quick opinionated question: What's a quickish way to remember the letters you memorize of peices? the sentence thing doesn't work our very well, because I spend too much time thinking of a word for the letter [under pressure, can't think, lol] and the "make a word with all the letters" method doesn't always work due to lack of vowels.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Feb 21, 2008)

4x4 centers is really fun to do stories for.  I use a different letter per color: b, c, d, n, s, t for U, F, R, B, L, D respectively.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 21, 2008)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> 4x4 centers is really fun to do stories for.  I use a different letter per color: b, c, d, n, s, t for U, F, R, B, L, D respectively.



Tim - I didn't know you did 4x4x4 BLD. What's your personal best?

(I don't know if you noticed, but you and I got our first competition 3x3x3 BLDs in the same competition - the US Open. You've always been better than me at it, though.)


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## joey (Feb 21, 2008)

I believe Tim hasn't actually gotten a success.... Sorry tim


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 21, 2008)

joey said:


> I believe Tim hasn't actually gotten a success.... Sorry tim



If that's true, it's okay - I'm sure it won't be long (assuming he keeps trying).


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Feb 22, 2008)

none of this helped me, haha


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 22, 2008)

To answer your question, I don't know of a quick way to memorize the letters without some preparation beforehand on your part. To avoid having to spend too much time thinking of a word, have pre-prepared words for all your letters. The problem with this, of course, is that it can lead to awkward sentences. That's where memorizing images for each possible letter pair becomes much more powerful - there is much greater variation in the sentences you construct, so they're easier to remember, and you also only have to memorize half as many images as you have letters. Of course, that unfortunately means you need to memorize 552 images. 

You can construct reasonable sentences with just one letter per image though as long as you get creative with it, especially if you're not doing separate orientation and permutation phases (so you're using 24 letters instead of just 12). So it might be worth trying just memorizing 24 images, one per letter, and always use them (so you won't have to think them up when memorizing), to see if that helps.


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Feb 25, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> To answer your question, I don't know of a quick way to memorize the letters without some preparation beforehand on your part. To avoid having to spend too much time thinking of a word, have pre-prepared words for all your letters. The problem with this, of course, is that it can lead to awkward sentences. That's where memorizing images for each possible letter pair becomes much more powerful - there is much greater variation in the sentences you construct, so they're easier to remember, and you also only have to memorize half as many images as you have letters. Of course, that unfortunately means you need to memorize 552 images.
> 
> You can construct reasonable sentences with just one letter per image though as long as you get creative with it, especially if you're not doing separate orientation and permutation phases (so you're using 24 letters instead of just 12). So it might be worth trying just memorizing 24 images, one per letter, and always use them (so you won't have to think them up when memorizing), to see if that helps.



Thank you for your advice. I've tested the image thing once before, It's not very useful to me [having not been used to it]. I've come up with a slightly different way of doing it, thought of it yesterday and It works great.
I get a letter, then look for the next piece, so now I have two letters. I then memorize a word starting with the first letter and ending with the second. 
ie: P-G = pudding. I have to memorize something like 5-6 words. although once in while I'll get stuck, and just try to remember two different words for the two letters. I'm not sure If I'm making sense, but to me it's a piece of cake


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## Lotsofsloths (Mar 2, 2008)

ThePizzaGuy92 said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > To answer your question, I don't know of a quick way to memorize the letters without some preparation beforehand on your part. To avoid having to spend too much time thinking of a word, have pre-prepared words for all your letters. The problem with this, of course, is that it can lead to awkward sentences. That's where memorizing images for each possible letter pair becomes much more powerful - there is much greater variation in the sentences you construct, so they're easier to remember, and you also only have to memorize half as many images as you have letters. Of course, that unfortunately means you need to memorize 552 images.
> ...




OR...
You can assign a letter to each STICKER(for edges).
Then you can either orient the pieces or not orient the pieces, If you do orient the edges, that will give you more powerful words, easier to remember.

So say you have the cycle 5 -> 12 -> 6
You would already(before you solve) assign the letter to each stickers.
acording to my lettering scheme that would be: 

I/J -> W/X -> K/L

In my case, I would memo this cycle as: Jewel, just because of the J the W and the L, it gives you a lot more freedom and its easier to recal, I mean when I say Jewel, what 3 letters most stand out? Or what 3 letters would you use to abbreviate Jewel?

On the other hand, if you don't orient that means you have to use each letter and you have no choice really, it all depends on luck whether you make good words..


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Mar 2, 2008)

Lotsofsloths said:


> ThePizzaGuy92 said:
> 
> 
> > Mike Hughey said:
> ...



I like the idea. Although since I use pochmann, each piece already has 2 letters, so if I were to choose one of the two to make for easier recall, it would change the orientation of the piece [or cause me to get confused during execution].


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## Lotsofsloths (Mar 2, 2008)

I know!
I use pochman also!

If you orient the edges in a F2/B2 group(which I use) then when exectuion, NO SINGLE M or E TURNS!!
Only E2 and M2.


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## fanwuq (Mar 6, 2008)

For CO and EO, I plan out the setup and remember the alg and setup combo.
It is easy for corners (simply xyz and COLL), but a little difficult for edges. For CP, I sound out the numbers in my head. For EP, I group 2 edges at a time into dates. I need more dates to associate with. Other than that, it's not too bad of a method. I may start to use consonants and/or rooms.


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## RobinBloehm (Mar 6, 2008)

I started trying M2 for 3x3-edges a week ago, so I thought about a way to memorize it. I use r2 for 4x4-edges, so I gave the stickers letters in a way, that I have to do the exact same setup-moves for the sticker "K" of the 3x3 (for example) and for the piece "K" when doing the 4x4. It was a bit tricky to find out and the order is not that logical as it is on the 4x4, but once I get used to it, it's very easy. The only difference are FU and BD when using DF as buffer. Of course they have different setups.
Actually I really SEE a 4x4 in my hands when executing edges. That way I don't have to put the sticker in the correct orientation to the correct place. I only have to put a piece in the correct position, sounds quite weird, because there is only one position for edges at BU/UB, but in my mind there are actually two different. That's fun ^^


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 6, 2008)

RobinBloehm said:


> I started trying M2 for 3x3-edges a week ago, so I thought about a way to memorize it. I use r2 for 4x4-edges, so I gave the stickers letters in a way, that I have to do the exact same setup-moves for the sticker "K" of the 3x3 (for example) and for the piece "K" when doing the 4x4. It was a bit tricky to find out and the order is not that logical as it is on the 4x4, but once I get used to it, it's very easy. The only difference are FU and BD when using DF as buffer. Of course they have different setups.
> Actually I really SEE a 4x4 in my hands when executing edges. That way I don't have to put the sticker in the correct orientation to the correct place. I only have to put a piece in the correct position, sounds quite weird, because there is only one position for edges at BU/UB, but in my mind there are actually two different. That's fun ^^



I've been wondering for a while if I should try to relearn M2 this way. As I've said before, I find r2 easier than M2. I think if I did it this way, it might be easier. I would go work on it now, but I'm training for Chattahoochee, so I don't want to try anything new until that's over. Nice idea, though - I hope I can try it soon.


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## Kenneth (Mar 7, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> I'm trying to learn a method where:
> 
> RUF and RDF are R-corners, RU, RF and RD are R-edges (the colour of the R-side)
> FUL and FDL are F-corners, FU, FL and FD are F-edges
> ...



I have made some changes for this. Mainly because my buffers are Urf for corners and Uf for edges. Using the order above makes the buffer corner an "R" corner and the buffer edge and "F" edge and that's not so good.

So now (or "now", it was some months ago) I have mirroroed the orientation for the RFLB-blocks so both the buffer pieces are "F" pieces. This moves R corners to URB and DRB, F to URF and DRF, L ULF-DLF and B ULB-DLB. The RM edge moves from RF to BR and the rest of the M layer edges follows, U and D layer edges remains as before.

Changes for orientation letters (AEO) are:

Now A is as before the stickers in the U and D layers but I changed E and O to not represent diffrent orientations but as A diffrent sides of the FRBL blocks. O are the stickers of the F block that are on the F side, R block R side and so on and E are the sticker of the F block that are on the R side. R block on B side and so on. For pieces that are in position already but needs an orientation I still use E for clockwise corners and O for conter clockwise corners and fliped edges.

For the rest, look here


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## Kenneth (Mar 12, 2008)

..........................
EDIT: if someone tried this and used the system I described and it did not work? Not strange =) I forgot that I changed the order for my orientation letters = AEO. See my latets changes to the post above for the correct order.
..........................

I made an example of how I solve the cornes using my system (the post above)

Scramble: D' L2 D' L2 B2 D' R2 F2 U' F2 R2 U2 B2 L B2 L' D U2 R D R'

Memo: RAT-LED, LOT-LOD, LET-RED, Orient FOT-FED (I use visual memo for those)

I'm using cycles for solving so I memo the pieces in blocks of two. I use both English and Swedish words to memo the "proto" words I get. Rat is the English word, a "led" is the swedish word for a knee, armbow, ankle = a "joint". So the first cycle i memo as "a rats ankle", the second, "a lot of lods" where "lod" is Swedish for "Plummet"/"lead" (the secod is the same as the Swedish word but pronounsed a little diffrent). Third cycle, "let(a)" is to "look" for something, a "red(e)" is a birds nest = "look for something under a birds nest", "let"'s say it's a "red" something 

Ok, you get the point, I create one image based on the two words for each cycle. These images I always base on the same characters and those are always cartoons, no real world objects. (Ex, "LAT" = Swe for "lazy", Kronblom is a Swedish comic strip character who is wery lazy, almost always resting on the coach =) The objects I place at certain spots in the garden outside Kronbloms house.

For corners I newer need more than three images, for edges five (if there are no parity or broken cycles, two cycles e.t.c.). The last part = orientation of two corners (or edges) I do not create an image for, it's so easy to remember where they are anyway.

Solution:

RAT-LED: L (y2) x U R' U L2 U' R U L2 U2 x' (y2) L' (L setup + A-PLL)

LOT-LOD: (z2) R U L' U' R' U L U' (z2) (no setup only a 8 turn cycle)

LET-RED: L D B' (y') x U' L U' R2 U L' U' R2 U2 x' (y) B D' L' (tricky setup + A-PLL, this is not a easy case)

Orientation (FOT-FED): (x) mirror Sune + Sune (x')

Or as I would do it: (x z') x U2 L U L' U Ra U2 R' U' R U' Ra' x' (z x') (Mirror antisune + antisune compressed, the x is a part of the alg and therefore inside the set up cube rotations and yep I do it BLD in 4-5 seconds, "newer" mess up =)

BTW: After three tries I actually got it   
..........................

(To create the scramble I took a fully scrambled cube and solved the edges, fed the corner positions into cube explorer to create a generator = the scramble)


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## fanwuq (Apr 4, 2008)

1.I seriously need some major help with BLD before I give up on it. I love solving BLD, but I never ever got a successful solve. Once I can actually solve blindfolded, I would do it more that speed solving. It feel really stupid when you memo for minutes and end up with a DNF when random stranger are watching.Now I'm kind of stuck on choosing my memo method. I use letters (consonants) and try to make words. I generally get about 8 random words that doesn't make a sentence. I can easily memo this but I have a tendency to rememo. So I thought visually would work better for me. I tried it a few times and got corners only successfully. But that is perhaps too many shapes, because I do Orientation visually already and the CO cases that aren't OLL algs are really hard to memo. I usually have to think about how to do orientation before I begin solving and some difficult CO cases would take me minutes to plan what to do for them. On OLL-looking cases, the whole process, memo and solving would take less that 2 minutes for corners only. Edge permutation are a pain to memo both ways. I sometimes use the wrong letter for the places on the cube. Or visually, some of the shapes are awkward.


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## tim (Apr 4, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> 1.I seriously need some major help with BLD before I give up on it. I love solving BLD, but I never ever got a successful solve. Once I can actually solve blindfolded, I would do it more that speed solving. It feel really stupid when you memo for minutes and end up with a DNF when random stranger are watching.Now I'm kind of stuck on choosing my memo method. I use letters (consonants) and try to make words. I generally get about 8 random words that doesn't make a sentence. I can easily memo this but I have a tendency to rememo. So I thought visually would work better for me. I tried it a few times and got corners only successfully. But that is perhaps too many shapes, because I do Orientation visually already and the CO cases that aren't OLL algs are really hard to memo. I usually have to think about how to do orientation before I begin solving and some difficult CO cases would take me minutes to plan what to do for them. On OLL-looking cases, the whole process, memo and solving would take less that 2 minutes for corners only. Edge permutation are a pain to memo both ways. I sometimes use the wrong letter for the places on the cube. Or visually, some of the shapes are awkward.



Seriously: One cube has not much information to memorize, so every method will work, just practice your brain. And avoid mistakes.


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## scuber123 (Apr 4, 2008)

I think that you are using OLL algorithms to orient, which may be the problem. I think OLL algorithms affect permutation.


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## Inusagi (Apr 4, 2008)

tim said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > 1.I seriously need some major help with BLD before I give up on it. I love solving BLD, but I never ever got a successful solve. Once I can actually solve blindfolded, I would do it more that speed solving. It feel really stupid when you memo for minutes and end up with a DNF when random stranger are watching.Now I'm kind of stuck on choosing my memo method. I use letters (consonants) and try to make words. I generally get about 8 random words that doesn't make a sentence. I can easily memo this but I have a tendency to rememo. So I thought visually would work better for me. I tried it a few times and got corners only successfully. But that is perhaps too many shapes, because I do Orientation visually already and the CO cases that aren't OLL algs are really hard to memo. I usually have to think about how to do orientation before I begin solving and some difficult CO cases would take me minutes to plan what to do for them. On OLL-looking cases, the whole process, memo and solving would take less that 2 minutes for corners only. Edge permutation are a pain to memo both ways. I sometimes use the wrong letter for the places on the cube. Or visually, some of the shapes are awkward.
> ...



I have the same problem. I think one cube is very much. And when I do some solves I get confused from solved before, in memo. And when I create images, I can't split others images I have used before and the one I should use for the moment.


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## tim (Apr 4, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> tim said:
> 
> 
> > fanwuq said:
> ...



Then save your information at a specific location. Place your images of your first cube in your room, your second cube at your grandma's house etc. This way you won't get confused from previous solves.


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## Inusagi (Apr 4, 2008)

Ok, thanks. I am trying this out.


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## scuber123 (Apr 4, 2008)

Memorizing one cube should not be very difficult. I will go through an example with you. (I will use old Pochmann for simplicity, Buffer=UR).
I have a letter assigned to each sticker. 

EDGES 

UR/RU
UBL/BUL/LBU UNUSED

UR = A, RU = B 
UF = C, FU = D 
UL = E, LU = F 
UB = G, BU = H 
FR = I, RF = J 
FL = K, LF = L 
BL = M, LB = N 
BR = O, RB = P 
DR = Q, RD = R
DF = S, FD = T
DL = U, LD = V
DB = W, BD = X

CORNERS

UFR/FUR/RUF = A/I/Q
UFL/FUL/LUF = B/J/R
UBL/BUL/LUB = C/K/S
UBR/BUR/RUB = D/L/T
DFR/FDR/RDF = E/M/U
DFL/FDL/LDF = F/N/V
DBL/BLD/LBD = G/O/W
DBR/BRD/RBD = H/P/X

Apply this scramble to a solved cube:
L U2 L2 D' U' R' B F2 D' F' R' B D' R B2 F' D' B2 L2 D F' B' D R U 
(U=White, F=Green) z2 y to orient

EDGES
Start at A. 
A->F->K->I->S->M (End of Cycle)
Q->G->Q (End of Cycle, Remember DL is flipped, so UR must 
be flipped)

CORNERS
Q (End of Cycle)
E->X->N->R->M (End of Cycle)
G->D->G

I remember in letter pairs. For edges I would remember:
AFter, KId, SAm, QueG, Q (Single letter indicates parity)
Corners: QuEst, XeNa, RiM, GoD, G

Hope this helped.


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## Inusagi (Apr 4, 2008)

I use the Pao system, but I guess it's as hard as the method you use.


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## Inusagi (Apr 4, 2008)

How many routes do you got to have before you don't get confused??


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## joey (Apr 4, 2008)

I know that tim has 20+ routes, since he needs that many for multi-bld. If you are not doing multi-bld, you probably only need 3-4 routes.


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## Inusagi (Apr 4, 2008)

Thanks! I have a another question. Do the image/s have a relationship to the room? I mean, let say I have a person juggling some balls in a room. Is that person just going to stand in the room and juggling the balls? Or is he going to do something more then that? Like touching something else in the room, jumping in the room etc...

(One of the words in the text may be wrong, but I am too lazy to check it out.)


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## tim (Apr 4, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> Thanks! I have a another question. Do the image/s have a relationship to the room? I mean, let say I have a person juggling some balls in a room. Is that person just going to stand in the room and juggling the balls? Or is he going to do something more then that? Like touching something else in the room, jumping in the room etc...
> 
> (One of the words in the text may be wrong, but I am too lazy to check it out.)



That's a very good question. For me it's enough to just place the images somewhere without letting them interact with their environment. But when i first learned the method of loci, i read several times, that it's necessary to link the images with the locations. I think you should try both ways and find out which works best.

btw. i also have an image of a juggler .

/edit: But one thing is sure: the images you linked with the location will stay longer in your head.


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## Inusagi (Apr 4, 2008)

tim said:


> /edit: But one thing is sure: the images you linked with the location will stay longer in your head.



Is that a good thing? Cause if it's stays too long, then maybe I'll forget the other images in other solve, although they're in a another location. In the other way, I won't forget it while solving. 

I guess it won't disturb anyway...


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## fanwuq (Apr 5, 2008)

well I agree it is not a lot of info for one cube. I do think my rememo is just pointless, but because I never got a successful solve, I just have to make sure a few times. So I end up DNF with a mess up on execution yet remember the info clearly. Yet I'm afraid of practicing it too much.

What is the advantages of visual and letters?
Can some one compare them?


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## joey (Apr 6, 2008)

Advantages of visual?
No converting data, its just the raw information. I know for people who use fixed images a lot, that they don't need to consiciously think about the image for a piece, but its still a subconcious process. With visual, it is just the plain old facts.

Letters?
Advantagess for me (could be specific), when I use letters (not often), it can be very fun to memo! You can get some funny words/sentences!


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## Feanaro (Apr 6, 2008)

I use a variation of the Pochman method in which I orientate the edges and corners, then permeate them. I memorize the orientation by just sight and remember what to do. I use numbers to memorize the corners, and words in person, verb, person format for the edges. It works very effeciantly. 

*3x3x3 PB: 18.22 sec
3x3x3 OH: 1:17
3x3x3 BLND: 2:55
2x2x2 PB: 7.35
4x4x4 PB: 2:30*


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## fanwuq (Apr 10, 2008)

Ok, thanks joey.

I got a new idea, probably not original. I usually group a few consonants together to form random words. Sometimes it's not even a word, it's just random sounds. So perhaps I should come up with a noun, verb, adjective, preposition, adverb for every letter I use so I can form true sentences more often.


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## Simboubou (May 6, 2008)

YEAH !

I achieved a 5/5, 45 minutes. Finaly.


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## Inusagi (May 17, 2008)

Could someone explain the first method o to memorize in this thread? The one I mean is the ones that uses shapes (zigzags, pararell lines...), I don't understand how it works..


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## amateurguy (May 28, 2008)

^I believe that method is called 'spatial memory' (as someone put it in a thread from way back in time). I use that when memorizing CP. Basically, I 'see' my corner permutation as lines or arrows on a blank cube in my head. These lines make up patterns like 'triangles' or 'zigzags'.

Example scramble: F' U B2 U R' L2 U' B D' F2 L' D L' U' R U2 R2 B U' D2 B' R U' L D2 

With buffer as UBR, (I'm using T-perm corners) the CP would follow as such (note: My notation does not follow 'stickers' as I pre-orient corners before solving CP):

UBR --> DFR 

(break into new cycle)

UBL --> UFR --> UFL --> DBR --> UBL

If you trace each cycle with arrows or lines, you see patterns.

For the first cycle, I see a simple diagonal line on the right face of the cube. For the second cycle, I see a triangular motion (going clockwise) that suddenly shoots to the far opposite corner and then returning back to the start of the triangle. 

When memorizing, I imagine myself tracing or drawing these lines on a cube with my finger, making motions like 'shooting to the far opposite corner' fast and sudden just to make it vivid in my memory. This method is especially easy when all the lines are just straight and not diagonal (and sometimes make letters like Z and X and N!) 

Well, this is of course my interpretation of the method. There might be a few others. And I don't know for sure how Leyan Lo memorizes it.


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## Inusagi (May 28, 2008)

Thanks. THose tips got my time down.


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## ROOT (May 31, 2008)

i use visual for my whole cube and muscle memory (tapping the cube)/visual for orientation. ive gotten up to 3 cubes multiblind in 15 minutes easily with my memory method. but it seems to be weak compared to story or journey methods. ive recently switched to a story method for centers for 4x4 just making up the letter combination words as i go, and its gotten me faster. I just want to know is there a barrier for visual memory for multiblind or bigcube blind? Im also very much looking into megaminx blind, i just have to find communicators that work very well for mainly edges.


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## Smartyy (Jun 4, 2008)

I can't BLD solve yet but I can memorize the cube pretty fast (like 2 mins) I use a memory palace. Search it on google 'cause it take too long to explain.
But basically you have a room that you know very well (like my bedroom) and you can place stuff in it (in your head, not in real life) so when you visit it in your head, you can recall the stuff you put in there.
In my memory palace (which currently is my whole house) i made my sister's room into my rubik's room, I put all my algs and stuff in there. In that room I have an object that represents each cubie on the cube itself, so when memorizing I look at the cube going from left to right, starting on the U face, then F, R, B, L, and finally D.
Each cube is represented by an object, so I simply place a number on the object, that way I know that the Red White and Blue corner appeared first, on the UBL face.


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## joey (Jun 4, 2008)

You should memorise in a linear order like that, it won't help.


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## Faz (Jun 15, 2008)

Hey, i am new to blding, and i know how to solve it and everything

It is only my memory technique that i need to get down.

I tried memorising the pieces in a raw way (eg: RU LD BR UB would become ruldbrub) but i cannot memorise the entire cube.

I have thought of a method similar to stefan pochmanns.

If he says banana ( yellow green) then green yellow would be banana inverted or banana2.

I would use this and the roman rooms method combined.

Scramble: (not a real one) L2, T perm, L2 with white on top and green of front.

I see that it is yellow red so i do chips and ketchup (eg: yellow blue would be chips drenched in water)

if it was red yellow i would say chips and ketchup inverted (upside down)


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## blah (Jun 15, 2008)

I've got an idea for edge permutation memorization. Don't know if it's new but it's a modification of the letter pair system (by Chris Hardwick I think?). I'm not gonna talk about how I came up with the idea, but here's what it is in general (works mainly for M2 and freestyle 3-cycle):

Assign a consonant and a vowel to each of the 22 stickers (so each sticker has two 'things' assigned to it). When I say vowel, I don't mean only AEIOU (because there wouldn't be 22 vowels anyway, unless it's some other language, I don't know). So to make up all 22 of them, I thought of assigning monosyllabic 'sounds' e.g. -an, -ang, -am, -ar, etc. Or you could also come up with more retarded sounding ones if it helps you memorize more easily, e.g. -oop, -urf. So when you memorize in pairs (good for both 3-cycle and M2), you memorize about 5-6 'words' everytime. I think the worst case scenario for M2 is 6 2-cycles, and that would be 8 words, which I don't think is a lot. (Though I'd rather do 3 2-edge-swap algorithms in this case.)

An example for an even cycle would be: ban murf la foop gay. Or something like that, hope you get the idea.

Why I think it could potentially be better than the letter pair system:
1. You don't have to come up with an image for *every single pair* of letters, you're just creating words on the fly.
2. I came up with this idea for BLD not multiBLD, so whatever you memorize should only go into your short term memory, and images, in my opinon, take too long to first imagine then memorize then process. For these words, you would just say them out loud to yourself while you're memorizing and then keep repeating them like a mantra over and over again. This works very well for me. The words don't go into my memory at all, I just keep repeating them so that they become some sort of tongue muscle memory and I just hear what my mouth says (I'm not consciously saying them, my mouth is) when I need to recall.
3. I _think_ it's easier to remember words that don't exist than words that exist, in the sense that non-existent words would leave a deeper impression, at least for me, dunno if it's the same for everyone.

Please give your opinions on this idea, or link me to a thread that's already discussed this idea. I haven't come up with a full system myself yet, I just wanted to get more opinions before I started working on it.

Edit: Oh and obviously it works for corners as well, and you can use the exact same lettering scheme you've used for edges


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## fanwuq (Jun 16, 2008)

Here's my amazing idea for old pochmann corners. I just started and I suck at BLD and I can consistently memo sub-30seconds corners only and several times sub-15. Most of the time, it's recognizing and finding pieces. With this system, I won't be surprised if some people can memo corners in 5 seconds. Hopefully after practicing for a few more weeks I can average sub-15 for memo.
Here it is:
Define each position with a consonant. I use B C D F G L M N
if the target sticker is facing U/D, let the vowel be A. if the target sticker is facing B/F, let the vowel be I. if the target sticker is facing L/R, let the vowel be O. Just sound out everything as you go along the memo.

Example:

memo: Ba Di Go No Fa La

execution: J1 perm; R:Y perm; F:J1 perm; F':Y perm; Y perm; D2 R2:J2 perm.


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## blah (Jun 17, 2008)

@wuqiong: I've also had this idea before, for M2 edge stickers. But that means 11-12 words to memorize most of the time (for edges), for ease of memorization these words have to make sense to you (and ba di go no fa la doesn't really make sense to me), and that's how I came up with my idea (the one above yours). But that idea is modified to suit the English-speaking community, here's my original, original idea that you might like since you know Chinese.

I'm came up with the idea because I know Chinese (and there _has_ to be an advantage for knowing an Asian language, because its structure is very different from Western languages), so my original idea for M2 edges was this: for every edge _piece_ assign a consonant (sheng1 mu3) and for _stickers_ on UDFB assign _a group of_ vowels (yun4 mu3), and for stickers on LR assign another _group of_ vowels. I'll explain the 'group of vowels' thing later.

And here's the powerful part about knowing Chinese: you can almost always form a sentence that makes sense (not a lot of sense, but yeah, at least there's some sense) without a lot of thinking because each word can have 4 'sounds' (actually 5, including 'no sound'). And what makes this system even more powerful is, you can choose almost _any_ word you like with the 'group of vowels' 'function'. Here's an example:

Group of vowels 1: anything that starts with a, o, e
E.g. a, an, ang, ai, ao, o, ou, ong, e, en, eng, er, etc. 

Group of vowels 2: anything that starts with i, u, v (yeah v means u with 2 dots above)
E.g. i, ia, iao, iang, ian, u, uo, ua, v, ve, etc.

Get the idea? And you can adapt this for corners! Say I group a, e for UD; i, u for BF; o, v for LR, this isn't very good grouping but it's just an example. Your 'ba di go no fa la' instantly becomes 'ba du gou nong fei le' (and I came up with this right here, right now), it means 'made the poisonous dog fat' (ba3 du2 gou3 nong4 fei2 le0), if you get what I mean. See the flexibility? Give your comments on this system.


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## Feanaro (Jun 17, 2008)

For my meomrization I assign each corner a number and make a cycle, its straightforward. But on the edges, I give each one a letter and memorize in 3's. person, verb, person. It's very usefull.


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## fanwuq (Jun 17, 2008)

Blah:

You've made it so much more creative! Perhaps I'll be creative and do that for multi. Right now, my system is simply fast and has little thinking for one or two cubes.
I just sound out everything and go. The memo is as fast as recognizing the pieces. (I'm quite slow now, 15-40 seconds, but after I get more familar, sub-10 memo for corners only should be quite easy.) I plan to memo corners last and do them first, so I can quickly do them and forget them.

I actually modified this idea from my idea for turbo edges orientation (which I gave up on). In that system: A = 2 edge correct; I = first right, 2nd wrong; O = 1st wrong, 2nd right; U = both wrong.

so I make one syllable random sounds (I was going to make a PAO word list for all the cases.) Buffer was UF. So CAF would have been a U cw perm for me. 
Now, I going to make a list of images for M2 edges. That's not going so well...


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## blah (Jun 17, 2008)

Thanks Wuqiong  Actually it's one of the best sentences I've ever came up with  I laughed at it for quite a while, and I just smile randomly even now when the image comes to my mind. Anyway I've never implemented the method before simply because I'm too lazy to familiarize myself with the letters (right now I still use visual + tapping), you can be the first to try and tell me if it's useful for multiBLD!

And I see how it can be slow for normal BLD. I know how your current idea can be fast for normal BLD because I do just about the same thing, but I do 3OP for corners so for permutation I just memorize 8 corners in Chinese numbers (being monosyllabic helps a lot), and I take about 5-6 seconds (I actually timed it). So I think your goal of 10s for stickers is quite reasonable and fully achievable in the near future. If it helps motivate you, I started this Chinese number for memo thing only more than a week ago 

Maybe I should introduce this to the Chinese speedcubing community in Mainland China, Taiwan and HK  (I speak Cantonese too and I think it'll work for Cantonese) Any Chinese speedcubing forums you know of?


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## fanwuq (Jun 17, 2008)

blah said:


> and I take about 5-6 seconds (I actually timed it).



Including CO memo, or just CP? I sucked when I used to use 3 cycle. My best memo was like 35seconds. It could be as long as 2 min if I’m stuck on the really hard CO.
I really like Old Pochmann. It’s so easy compared to 3OP, I think.


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## blah (Jun 17, 2008)

No no no, you crazy? If I take only 5 secs for CO and CP then my total memo for the cube would be like sub-15 -.-" I average 1 min for memorizing the entire cube. I spend a lot of time on the edges because I don't have numbers for them, I just tap. I'm planning to do M2 in the future but at the moment I'm still doing 4-step 3-cycle. Lazy to switch 'cause I hate being slow again  (Not that I'm very fast now, but yeah, average.)


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## ROOT (Jun 30, 2008)

i do not get the roman rooms concept.

i have no method for memorizing at all, and ive gotten to 4/5 mutliblind by very minor mistakes. But, its very unreliable, and i cant seem to grasp another method clear enough to adjust to my liking for full use


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## badmephisto (Sep 19, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> Here's my amazing idea for old pochmann corners. I just started and I suck at BLD and I can consistently memo sub-30seconds corners only and several times sub-15. Most of the time, it's recognizing and finding pieces. With this system, I won't be surprised if some people can memo corners in 5 seconds. Hopefully after practicing for a few more weeks I can average sub-15 for memo.
> Here it is:
> Define each position with a consonant. I use B C D F G L M N
> if the target sticker is facing U/D, let the vowel be A. if the target sticker is facing B/F, let the vowel be I. if the target sticker is facing L/R, let the vowel be O. Just sound out everything as you go along the memo.
> ...



Thats quite interesting, i like it! I tried it a little bit I cant seem to really remember it for long time. I get them mixed up if I stop repeating them. But its very very promising, i will try working on it more. hmmm. Advantage to this is that the translation from image to execution with this is almost instant for me. Right away I can locate the target sticker with ease. Also the memorization is incredibly fast. I've been struggling with the memory part a little though


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## Faz (Sep 19, 2008)

^^ hey, i use that!

thanks wuqiong!


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## fanwuq (Sep 22, 2008)

badmephisto said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > Here's my amazing idea for old pochmann corners. I just started and I suck at BLD and I can consistently memo sub-30seconds corners only and several times sub-15. Most of the time, it's recognizing and finding pieces. With this system, I won't be surprised if some people can memo corners in 5 seconds. Hopefully after practicing for a few more weeks I can average sub-15 for memo.
> ...



Same with me! I think the trick is to come up with consonants that do not sound very much alike. Much of the time, you can form some 2 syllable words. However, sometimes (very rarely), it does become some sort of tongue twister. Sometimes, if the sound is easy, I can remember for maybe half an hour, but if it's a tongue twister, I forget as soon as I finish the cube. Usually, I can still recall it after about 2min after the solve. The really great and weird thing for me is that when I memo like this, I unconsciously do visual memo at the same time (which I have trouble doing just by itself.) That serves as an extra check to make sure the memo. Several times, I repeat a sound and realizes that it doesn't feel right, so I followed my visual memory and that solved the cube.

Thanks, everyone! I’m glad that people are adopting this method! I think this is very fast for people during just one cube or multiBLD’s less than 4 cubes who do not have amazing memories. I’m also using this for edges. I’ve tried it for a while and kept on failing using it for M2, but today, I’ve stickered a new cube (only the edges), and that helped very much with my concentration; I’m pretty sure the memo was under 1min, which is nice for first day. I’m going to train with this cube until I get a very high accuracy and decent speed, then move on to whole cube.


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## blah (Sep 28, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> Same with me! I think the trick is to come up with consonants that do not sound very much alike. Much of the time, you can form some 2 syllable words. However, sometimes (very rarely), it does become some sort of tongue twister. Sometimes, if the sound is easy, I can remember for maybe half an hour, but if it's a tongue twister, I forget as soon as I finish the cube. Usually, I can still recall it after about 2min after the solve. The really great and weird thing for me is that when I memo like this, I unconsciously do visual memo at the same time (which I have trouble doing just by itself.) That serves as an extra check to make sure the memo. Several times, I repeat a sound and realizes that it doesn't feel right, so I followed my visual memory and that solved the cube.
> 
> Thanks, everyone! I’m glad that people are adopting this method! I think this is very fast for people during just one cube or multiBLD’s less than 4 cubes who do not have amazing memories. I’m also using this for edges. I’ve tried it for a while and kept on failing using it for M2, but today, I’ve stickered a new cube (only the edges), and that helped very much with my concentration; I’m pretty sure the memo was under 1min, which is nice for first day. I’m going to train with this cube until I get a very high accuracy and decent speed, then move on to whole cube.



Aah, I see you're approaching BLD the same way I did: first attack the corners, then the edges, so that your next full solve will improve dramatically  Just as a guide for you, my corners were ~40 and my edges ~1:10 before I went on to a full solve, and my PB leaped from 3:xx to 1:xx instantly  So maybe you wanna use my times as a guideline or something 

By the way, your memo method _can_ be used for multiBLD, as I mentioned my modification some posts back. Too bad only works for Chinese, but I don't see why someone can't modify it again to make it work for English, or any other language for that matter.


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## fanwuq (Sep 29, 2008)

blah said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > Same with me! I think the trick is to come up with consonants that do not sound very much alike. Much of the time, you can form some 2 syllable words. However, sometimes (very rarely), it does become some sort of tongue twister. Sometimes, if the sound is easy, I can remember for maybe half an hour, but if it's a tongue twister, I forget as soon as I finish the cube. Usually, I can still recall it after about 2min after the solve. The really great and weird thing for me is that when I memo like this, I unconsciously do visual memo at the same time (which I have trouble doing just by itself.) That serves as an extra check to make sure the memo. Several times, I repeat a sound and realizes that it doesn't feel right, so I followed my visual memory and that solved the cube.
> ...



I just made an English list of noun/verb that are very similar to the sounds that I plan to use for edges and make a story with them...


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## cookingfat (Oct 12, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> Here's my amazing idea for old pochmann corners. I just started and I suck at BLD and I can consistently memo sub-30seconds corners only and several times sub-15. Most of the time, it's recognizing and finding pieces. With this system, I won't be surprised if some people can memo corners in 5 seconds. Hopefully after practicing for a few more weeks I can average sub-15 for memo.
> Here it is:
> Define each position with a consonant. I use B C D F G L M N
> if the target sticker is facing U/D, let the vowel be A. if the target sticker is facing B/F, let the vowel be I. if the target sticker is facing L/R, let the vowel be O. Just sound out everything as you go along the memo.
> ...



This method sounds really interesting fanwuq, I'm going to give this a try in the morning, it sound faster to memo than a story method which I am trying to use. how do you do your edges?

edit - I've been messing with this and had an idea, what about making a full sensical word instead of just a consanant and a vowel? Do this on the fly, rather than assigning each sticker a word, that way you can try and make the sentence make some sort of sense. 

eg your Ba Di Go No Fa La could be - Bath Dive Going Nowhere Fat Lass (that's much easier to remember)

edit - I've been playing with this some more, (I use P instead of fanwuq's N)

Pa Li Ma Ga Ci Bo Da - Patch Linford's Manhood Gash, Cinky Boner Dad
Fi Ca Bo Po Ma Go Lo Fi - Find (the) Cat Bones (in the) Poop, Magic Gophers Long Fingers

as you can see it's a combination of fanwuq and blah's chinese methods and it seems to work for me. This could also work on the edges, I might try that another time, at the moment I just do this >

corners - one sentence
edges - story method with letter pair images

what do you think?


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## fanwuq (Oct 12, 2008)

Good!
Now, cookingfat, look at the post directly above yours, that would answer 2 of your questions.  
However, now I'm thinking about just using the direct syllables (no words) for edges, and visual for corners. That would be faster, but I don't know if my memory is good enough for that, I shall practice...


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## cookingfat (Oct 12, 2008)

ah I see now, you've made a list of words, I assume three for each corner? I wonder if that would be easier than making up a different word each time, like I do. I get some really crazy sentences this way though. What I like about your method it that it's really quick to recognise which sticker you need when you say the word. 

Is visual just basically tapping the stickers and remembering the order?

I don't think I could memo the syllables alone though, if I stop chanting it for a few seconds, I forget it.


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## Escher (Oct 12, 2008)

visual is literally staring at the cube and remembering what the cube looks like.

with edges, i do macky's 3 cycle memo.

with corners, i think of it as a 2x2 and remember that visually. i basically 'grey out' the other cubies, and 'highlight' my buffer edges while i solve the corners.
there's obviously many better ways of doing it but i dislike BLD. you cant multislot dammit!


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## tim (Oct 12, 2008)

Escher said:


> visual is literally staring at the cube and remembering what the cube looks like.



Wow, that sounds hard .


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## Escher (Oct 12, 2008)

depends... Chukk has done a multibld with completely visual memory.
to be fair, his brain is all wrong inside... 

EDIT: on reflection, i hope you're not being a little sarcastic... your BLD on cubemania is 1:17 after all...


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## joey (Oct 12, 2008)

He doesn't use visual.

Lol to cubemania. He built the site  and umm, holds the WR for multibld


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## tim (Oct 12, 2008)

Escher said:


> depends... Chukk has done a multibld with completely visual memory.
> to be fair, his brain is all wrong inside...
> 
> EDIT: on reflection, i hope you're not being a little sarcastic... your BLD on cubemania is 1:17 after all...



"visual is literally staring at the cube and remembering what the cube looks like." That sounds to me as if you could remember every single color on the cube after memorization. That's why i said hard.

btw. that 1:17 was extremely lucky.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Oct 13, 2008)

Escher said:


> depends... Chukk has done a multibld with completely visual memory.
> to be fair, his brain is all wrong inside...
> 
> EDIT: on reflection, i hope you're not being a little sarcastic... your BLD on cubemania is 1:17 after all...



? 2/2 with visual is a joke.


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## Escher (Oct 13, 2008)

i have no idea whether that 'its a joke' because its really easy or because its really hard... i would guess the latter...
and joey, im glad someone told me that... perhaps i should look WCA links before posting


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## joey (Oct 13, 2008)

2/2 for visual is pretty easy, it depends how fast you go.


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## Escher (Oct 13, 2008)

maybe easy for the UKNR holder... maybe not for mortals


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## Lucas Garron (Oct 13, 2008)

joey said:


> 2/2 for visual is pretty easy, it depends how fast you go.


4/4 for visual was pretty easy even before everyone started developing good multi BLD methods, and trying, like, attempts with numbers of cubes in the double-digits.

Also, Rowe considers his huge (twenties) attempts to use visual memo.


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## fanwuq (Oct 24, 2008)

What if for edges, you assign each piece as a number 1-12 and when you memo, pretend the number is a position on a clock. Then, the cycle becomes connecting the dots on a clock?
This way, you only have to visualize lines on one single picture. Easier than classic visual in that it's not a 3D image so line connections on clearer. I'll try this later to see if it works out for me.


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## cookingfat (Oct 24, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> What if for edges, you assign each piece as a number 1-12 and when you memo, pretend the number is a position on a clock. Then, the cycle becomes connecting the dots on a clock?
> This way, you only have to visualize lines on one single picture. Easier than classic visual in that it's not a 3D image so line connections on clearer. I'll try this later to see if it works out for me.



how would you know which sticker of the edge to solve?

btw, I'm officially using the fanwuq method for corners now (but with full words)


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## cubeRemi (Oct 24, 2008)

If I use visual I see the cube like one picture with shining lines. I can see through the cube. also the advantage of visual is that you do not have to translate at all. but if you use a clock you have to.

o and I don't orient edges (anymore)

Remi


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## fanwuq (Oct 26, 2008)

Hmmm... I just realized this only works for 3OP. I don't know If I want to use my corner method, 18 syllables get too confusing.
The best I can think of is use the syllables for edges and visual for corners, but I got too comfortable with syllable corners!


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## MistArts (Oct 26, 2008)

I've been using visual for a while. So I wanted to switch. I came up with the classroom idea because it's pretty easy to know everyone and you have multiple classes to work with.


Set-up your method.
1. Pick one or two classrooms with assigned seats and make sure you know (almost) everyone in the class.
2. Pick a buffer seat (easier if it's your seat).
3. Pick the 11 other seats for edges and 7 for corners in the same or another classroom.

Memorize your cube.
1. Have everyone sitting.
2. Look at the buffer.
3. Move the person in the buffer seat to the piece (seat) in the buffer. (Sitting means correct orientation, standing means incorrect) (You could count cycles by making the teacher stand and sit.)
4. Repeat until all pieces are memorized.

Solving the cube. (M2/2-cycle method)
1. Cycle the piece out of the buffer seat to his/her original seat and the person in that seat come to the buffer seat.
2. Repeat until all people are in their original seat.

Solving the cube. (3-cycle)
1. Cycle the three pieces (people) in their seats from the buffer.
2. Repeat until all people are in their original seat.


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## fanwuq (Oct 28, 2008)

MistArts said:


> I've been using visual for a while. So I wanted to switch. I came up with the classroom idea because it's pretty easy to know everyone and you have multiple classes to work with.
> 
> 
> Set-up your method.
> ...



Complicated. Why don't you just memorize as a journey? Walk by the people's sits, you can imagine yourself interacting with them.


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## Wacky (Oct 28, 2008)

For people using visual with a sticker cycling solving method, do you memorize it as a direct cycle of stickers, or as orientation / permutation?


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## MistArts (Oct 28, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> MistArts said:
> 
> 
> > I've been using visual for a while. So I wanted to switch. I came up with the classroom idea because it's pretty easy to know everyone and you have multiple classes to work with.
> ...



I've looked into journeys and images, but I don't have time to come up with images and actions.


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## fanwuq (Oct 28, 2008)

I mean, just use the people as the images and your just walk around them in order as your permutation.


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## MistArts (Oct 28, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> I mean, just use the people as the images and your just walk around them in order as your permutation.



So, you mean have one person for every sticker or piece?


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## fanwuq (Oct 28, 2008)

MistArts said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > I mean, just use the people as the images and your just walk around them in order as your permutation.
> ...



yes, if you know the people well enough, I don't. I think Chris has a list of people as one of his image lists.


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## MistArts (Oct 28, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> MistArts said:
> 
> 
> > fanwuq said:
> ...



So you memorize the people and walk to everyone on the list?


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## fanwuq (Oct 28, 2008)

MistArts said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > MistArts said:
> ...



I don't do that, but that's what I would try if I'm good at memorizing people.


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## MistArts (Oct 28, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> MistArts said:
> 
> 
> > fanwuq said:
> ...



I'm pretty good at memorizing people. I might try this then.


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## fanwuq (Nov 3, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> What if for edges, you assign each piece as a number 1-12 and when you memo, pretend the number is a position on a clock. Then, the cycle becomes connecting the dots on a clock?
> This way, you only have to visualize lines on one single picture. Easier than classic visual in that it's not a 3D image so line connections on clearer. I'll try this later to see if it works out for me.



I now adopt this for M2. The trick is to use 2 clocks, one for AM (correct orientation), one for PM (wrong orientation). I just visually trace the points on the clock as a journey. I tried it once and it's extremely comfortable. I'll give it more trials to see if there are such cases that are hard to visualize. First time, it was slow, probably around 4 min to memo, but it was a solid memo, (I can still remember it after 30min!) I expect it to take no more than 1min after 20 more trials (I hope.)
If that happens, I'll be happily averaging sub-3 min BLD.

Edit:
It is tough when you constantly switch from one clock to another, but it's still easier than pure visual. So perhaps I'll do 3OP edges instead.


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## patrickpoako1 (Nov 11, 2008)

sorry for this stupid question. it might have been answered here but im just too lazy to browse/scan all pages here to check for answers.
when you use roman room/journey method, what do you actually do?i have already planned out what images will be for my corners and edges, i just dont know how to put them all in the room. and in case i have them fix, how will i know w/c way to go? like for example using classic pochmann corner, ubl goes to rdf then etc., where should i place these in sequences. also for edges should i imagine them like the edges of the walls of the room? i'm so confused?
really sorry for asking this i just need to clear this up because i think that room/journey will be the best method for me as it fits my lazy mind.

btw, i use names for each corner (names of my siblings their gf/bf and what they have in common) since there's 7 of us in the family it fits all corner since one corner acts as buffer.
for edges i have them labelled by letters 22 to be exact. i memorize w/c letter replaces w/c and if i have a new cycle i just shoot another edge using m2 of course. the main problem here is that it is not really organized and sometimes you tend to mix up the letters.
thanks in advance for those who will give their ideas/thoughts/violent reactions.


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## joey (Nov 11, 2008)

patrickpoako1 said:


> it might have been answered here but im just too lazy to browse/scan all pages here to check for answers.


sorry, I'm too lazy to anwser.


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## patrickpoako1 (Nov 12, 2008)

joey said:


> patrickpoako1 said:
> 
> 
> > it might have been answered here but im just too lazy to browse/scan all pages here to check for answers.
> ...


but you answered.... duh!


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## joey (Nov 12, 2008)

I responded to your post, but didn't answer your question.


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## patrickpoako1 (Nov 12, 2008)

joey said:


> I responded to your post, but didn't answer your question.



response=answer. dont be so smart. you're not.

anyway,can anyone help me because i have already tried checking other threads but i'm still a little confused of how it really works.

btw joey please dont reply if you're just gonna flame me. you're acting like a noob.


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## joey (Nov 12, 2008)

I am smart. I am not a noob. I just didn't like your 'I'm too lazy to find the information'.
Now you say you checked the other threads, how am I supposed to know if you have or not.

You have a room, which has 10 (for example) fixed locations in it. eg: 1 doorway, 2 table, 3 bed etc. Then you place your images in this order. 
So you might see a car in the doorway, and a penguin on your table. 
You don't want it to be as bland is that though. The car might be a big stretch limo with some newly weds, that got stuck in your doorframe while trying to turn around. The penguin might be tap dancing, or maybe sitting on the side of the table with a fishing rod.

ps: please think more/research more before posting in future.


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## patrickpoako1 (Nov 12, 2008)

joey said:


> I am smart. I am not a noob. I just didn't like your 'I'm too lazy to find the information'.
> Now you say you checked the other threads, how am I supposed to know if you have or not.
> 
> You have a room, which has 10 (for example) fixed locations in it. eg: 1 doorway, 2 table, 3 bed etc. Then you place your images in this order.
> ...



this is the same as the ones as i see on other threads. what i really want to know is how does all this images/pieces works. now you see penguins, limo etc. in the room. they correspond to a piece on your cube. now how do they go to their locations or w/c piece goes to w/c piece.

and btw if you've read my question before i already explained my real problem. you're just being a smartass. you're acting as if you know everything here. 

ps: did you think i havent searched enough/think enough before i ask these questions.

if you dont like what've said keep it to yourself. i wasnt asking for your help. just those ones kind enough to share their ideas. if this is a big deal for you PLEASE DONT REPLY <=== READ THIS WELL JOEY.


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## joey (Nov 12, 2008)

I like how, now that I actually try to help, you call me a smartass, just because I know more than you. I actually do know a lot about BLD, since I have read nearly every single website about it, read nearly every single post in this subforum, and have privately corresponded about BLD methods/ideas with lots of individuals.

I said you place the images in order. So, your first piece goes at #1, second piece at #2 etc. So when you visit location 1, you see the piece is 'Limo', which may correspond to 'UL', so using the M2 + setups, that's where you shoot. Then you would see #2 'penguin', and shoot to 'FR' etc.

I am trying to explain in a way that you understand it, if you don't get this, ask for more clarification. 

ps: No I didn't think you searched at all, because in your first post, it said you didn't.


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## patrickpoako1 (Nov 12, 2008)

joey said:


> I like how, now that I actually try to help, you call me a smartass, just because I know more than you. I actually do know a lot about BLD, since I have read nearly every single website about it, read nearly every single post in this subforum, and have privately corresponded about BLD methods/ideas with lots of individuals.
> 
> I said you place the images in order. So, your first piece goes at #1, second piece at #2 etc. So when you visit location 1, you see the piece is 'Limo', which may correspond to 'UL', so using the M2 + setups, that's where you shoot. Then you would see #2 'penguin', and shoot to 'FR' etc.
> 
> ...



I like how you rephrased youre answer. I'm not trying to argue with you coz I do know you know alot. But.. here's what i said before

"im just too lazy to browse/scan all pages here to check for answers."

I didnt say I didnt searched. I just just didnt SCANNED EVERYTHING. I'm not english/american but I do know the difference between "did not searched at all" and "did not browse/scan all pages in here"

anyway, I get it now but only for edges. So I'll put a piece in one location like UF in #1 UL in #2 etc. So when I visit these locations and see something else in here I just shoot them back to their places. Then the piece that it will replace should also be placed back to its location. Am I correct?
How do I go about corners using this method. Or could I also put all corner pieces in here. Isnt it kinda messy around my room.^_^


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## joey (Nov 12, 2008)

Example (I don't think you got it properly)

F2 R F R2 D U2 F R' F2 L F D' B R2 F L' R D' L R' B' D U2 L' B'

So I look at DF and see DL.
I place DL at #1.
I look at DL and see RF, so I place RF at #2.
I look at RF, and see RB, so I place RB at #3.
I then see UF at RB, so I place UF at #4.
etc.

I then look in my room, and see DL at #1, so I use the setups, M2, setdowns etc for DL. I then move to location 2 and see RF, so I shoot to RF etc.

Understand it? Corners are exactly the same btw, you could maybe have a seperate room for corners.


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## patrickpoako1 (Nov 12, 2008)

joey said:


> Example (I don't think you got it properly)
> 
> F2 R F R2 D U2 F R' F2 L F D' B R2 F L' R D' L R' B' D U2 L' B'
> 
> ...




thank you so much for putting it that way. i can now understand it better. so for corners i only need another room like an adjoining room or just a new one.

btw, i'm from manila, philippines and i work on graveyard shifts. i'm at work right now and it's almost 3:30am here. i really apologize for the rudeness. just having some really bad calls lately.

i'm working on images for my corners and probably letter-pair for edges. could they fit in this room method. i'm also planning on expanding this to PAO for edges so that will will 21*20 pairs for edges with a person,action,object associated with each pair.

i'm also learning roux at the moment and i see some really nice 3/5 cycle permutations in here. i created some of my own and still in the process of finding some more. this only works if all edges are correctly oriented. 

ex. (i discovered this on my own)
DF->UF->UB - U2M'U2M
DF->DB->UF - M2U2MU2M
DF->UF->DB - M'U2M'U2M2
DF->DB->UF->UL->UR - M2U'MU2M'UMU2M
DF->DB->UL->UR->UF - U'MU2M'U'M2U2MU2M
DF->UF->UR->UB->DB - M2U'M'U2M'U'M'U2MU2

but for this to happen on a normal BLD (it happens some of the time), you have to do EO/EP and I dont think this will be fatser tahn using M2.
if you have any insights on this it will surely help alot.

gazilions thanks joey!


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## VirKill (Nov 16, 2008)

Waw....congratulation for the happy ending. Thanks Joey.


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## dbeyer (Dec 1, 2008)

http://dbeyer.110mb.com/sprites.html
This is an updated list of my letter pair images. Take a look at them if you are interested.

^_^


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## byu (Dec 23, 2008)

For corner orientation, I memorize a string of 8 numbers for each corner. If its twisted clockwise, I remember 1, counter-clockwise, I remember 2, and if it's oriented correctly, I remember 0. My memorization might look like this: 2112 0012

For edge orientation, I just remember the numbers of the edges that aren't oriented, like 2, 5, 7, 12

Permutation, I remember in sentences. For each number, I assign a letter, and I create a sentence for each permutation cycle.


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## bamman1108 (Dec 27, 2008)

So, for the Roman Room method, do you think this could work?

I didn't quite get the idea for it, but I have an idea of how to do it.

There are 20 cubies on a standard 3x3x3, so remember 2 rooms with 12 and 8 objects each, going in a circle.

Each cubie is assigned a number. Edges get 1-12 (first room) Corners get 13-20 (second room). This way, I picture myself running around one room for the edges, and one room for the corners.

Edges: Game room
1-Small table
2-Chair
3-Posters
4-TV
5-Game consoles
6-Drums
7-Guitar
8-Amp
9-Chord List
10-Couch
11-Light Switch
12-Door

Bedroom:

13-Bed
14-Alarm Clock
15-Light Switch
16-Closet
17-TV
18-Picture
19-Desk
20-Laptop

I haven't had a chance to try it because I don't understand how to remember orientation, and how to remember which way an edge is flipped (green on top yellow on side or vice-versa)


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## Ville Seppänen (Dec 27, 2008)

If it works for you it works.


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## MistArts (Jan 4, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> What if for edges, you assign each piece as a number 1-12 and when you memo, pretend the number is a position on a clock. Then, the cycle becomes connecting the dots on a clock?
> This way, you only have to visualize lines on one single picture. Easier than classic visual in that it's not a 3D image so line connections on clearer. I'll try this later to see if it works out for me.





fanwuq said:


> Hmmm... I just realized this only works for 3OP. I don't know If I want to use my corner method, 18 syllables get too confusing.
> The best I can think of is use the syllables for edges and visual for corners, but I got too comfortable with syllable corners!



The clock idea could work for M2 using hexadecimal for memorizing the orientation.



blah said:


> @wuqiong: I've also had this idea before, for M2 edge stickers. But that means 11-12 words to memorize most of the time (for edges), for ease of memorization these words have to make sense to you (and ba di go no fa la doesn't really make sense to me), and that's how I came up with my idea (the one above yours). But that idea is modified to suit the English-speaking community, here's my original, original idea that you might like since you know Chinese.
> 
> I'm came up with the idea because I know Chinese (and there _has_ to be an advantage for knowing an Asian language, because its structure is very different from Western languages), so my original idea for M2 edges was this: for every edge _piece_ assign a consonant (sheng1 mu3) and for _stickers_ on UDFB assign _a group of_ vowels (yun4 mu3), and for stickers on LR assign another _group of_ vowels. I'll explain the 'group of vowels' thing later.
> 
> ...



This could be much easier with Japanese (don't tell them that) because they can have a consonant and vowel-leading sounds for every location. Then they could pair them up into one hiragana character or a simple kanji character. This gives them more word choices because their "alphabet" is made up of consonant + vowel-leading sounds. This way, they can use very few "words"/kanji to memorize the puzzle. Correct me if I'm wrong though; I don't know much Japanese.


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## blah (Jan 7, 2009)

MistArts said:


> This could be much easier with Japanese (don't tell them that).



Agreed  Please don't


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## happa95 (Jan 7, 2009)

muhahahahahaha! I'm japanese!


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## happa95 (Jan 16, 2009)

Okay, this is a question for people that memorize stickers and use a lettering system: How do YOU memorize the letters?


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## cookingfat (Jan 16, 2009)

happa95 said:


> Okay, this is a question for people that memorize stickers and use a lettering system: How do YOU memorize the letters?



I sort of do it that way, but I make a word eg. Blue/Orange = BO = Bone, the other way would be Orange/Blue = OB = Oboe


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## byu (Jan 16, 2009)

I memorize letters with classic pochmann by imagining items that start with those letters on a walk down a road.


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## happa95 (Jan 16, 2009)

byu said:


> I memorize letters with classic pochmann by imagining items that start with those letters on a walk down a road.



Wow, BYU! You've already transitioned into classic pochmann?


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## byu (Jan 16, 2009)

Not exactly, trying though. Best I've done is off by a J permutation


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## happa95 (Jan 16, 2009)

byu said:


> Not exactly, trying though. Best I've done is off by a J permutation



Well, my hat's off to you.  At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if you started using M2 in a matter of weeks.


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## MistArts (Jan 16, 2009)

I was thinking of a memo method for clock BLD. My thoughts came across using a graph. 

The graph would be an x-y axis graph, -6 to 6 range for X and Y axis, with 4 quadrants. 

(x,y)

The first clock would be the "x" and the second would be "y". Repeat for all clocks and you would only need to memorize 7 "points". 

I'm still thinking of how to memorize the coordinates easier. (Maybe connecting the dots?)


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## boiiwonder (Feb 4, 2009)

What method is this. 

( i use it for multi )

I make each cube a different age that I was and make a story from that.

ex

cube 1-- 6 years old. That has a story behind it then when the story is done for that cube.

cube 2--- age 7-- Make a story then continue.

Is this just another story method, or is it something different.


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## blah (Feb 4, 2009)

boiiwonder said:


> What method is this.
> 
> ( i use it for multi )
> 
> ...



Correct me if I'm missing something, but how does age help you differentiate between cubes when you're doing something like 30 cubes multi? I don't see how you can tell the 12-year-old story from the 13-year-old story apart (because you'd be about the same "size", if you know what I mean) unless something really significant happened every year in your life.

If you're doing anything close to 30 cubes, then why not make the age gap larger for easier visualization of the stories? E.g. use yourself as a baby for the first cube, as a 10-year-old for the next, a teen for the next, and so on.

Edit: Oh, and of course, there's the cliched "if it works for you, it works"


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## boiiwonder (Feb 5, 2009)

blah said:


> boiiwonder said:
> 
> 
> > What method is this.
> ...





With age gaps that would be easier to remember, but I would have less stories and less cube I can do because im not that old. im only 17 about to turn 18 inna few weeks  .

Its like you know for sure something happened when you were a certain age, or its about something that happened and what I was feeling that day. 
( thats the best way I can explain it )

EXAMPLE: This cube would be a story about things that happened when I was 6
I was PlAying outside once WhEn I saw the Fire Alarm. I PuLled it and the whole apartment when CRazy. ect...

Then another cube would be about things that happened when I was 7 and ect.


Stuff like that. They are usually have fun memories, or bad ones. Pulling the fire alarm was for sure a good one. Usually the stories start and end with my birthday. when something always seemes to happen. . 

For a LARGE amount of cubes this not work I will combine With things that happened in different grade levels. 

Ex. This cube would be 1st grade. The next cube would be 2nd grade and so on.

( I really hope you understood the post correctly )

I don't know how I would do more than 50 cubes, but i'll find a way


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## rahulkadukar (Feb 6, 2009)

I use Hexadecimal for Edge Orientation and hence need to remember only 3 bytes.


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## Karthik (Feb 6, 2009)

rahulkadukar said:


> I use Hexadecimal for Edge Orientation and hence need to remember only 3* bytes*.


Are you sure? 

You don't need three bytes for EO only. You only need 12 bits i.e 3 nibbles.


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## rahulkadukar (Feb 7, 2009)

Karthik said:


> rahulkadukar said:
> 
> 
> > I use Hexadecimal for Edge Orientation and hence need to remember only 3* bytes*.
> ...



Ok You got me there but if I have to remember 3 different alphabets or numbers (which are in Hexa). I would require 3 bytes in my brain.

 My brain does not work in terms of nibbles i.e I have to remember 12 nibbles as 3 bytes not 1.5 bytes.

BTW, See you in Kanpur


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## maxcube (Feb 19, 2009)

*This only applies if you use Pochmann*



Buggy793 said:


> The only problem with this technique is the orientation on the pieces. Which way they are turned? I have no clue how to remember this...



You have to remember the TOP piece in the buffer. Not back to front.



Buggy793 said:


> The Orange and Green edge piece is named "Halloween"



Orange on top of buffer, green on other side of edge = Halloween
Green on top of buffer, Orange on other side of edge = GO

http://stefan-pochmann.info/spocc/blindsolving/3x3/old.php

But, you really have to learn how to solve it with a BLD method before you worry about memorizing. You got to know what to memorize.


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## Paul Wagner (Feb 19, 2009)

Ok, I need a single cube BLD method because i suck at it, but for multi, memorize corners in 4digits as one thousand spot number, and then the second number in 1-4 digits such as 1234-5687 edges assign letters and memorize three at a time making only 4 words to memorize maximum (parity) So I hoped that helped, and if you use Corner orientation your on your own XD


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## BlazingSlow (Apr 17, 2009)

I'm currently learning Old Pochmann.

I'm memorizing the edges by touching the stickers and assigning a number to each one, but the touching is the main thing, the numbers only helps me keeping the track of them.


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## byu (Apr 17, 2009)

Buggy793 said:


> OK, thanks!
> I'll work on that...
> Gotta learn Po*n*chmann. This will be my third way of solving it...



I've ner heard of the Ponchmann method, is it fast?


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## Bob (Apr 18, 2009)

byu said:


> I've ner heard of the Ponchmann method, is it fast?



you idiot.


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## Kian (Apr 18, 2009)

byu said:


> Buggy793 said:
> 
> 
> > OK, thanks!
> ...



you're really mocking his addition of a letter when you yourself forgot 2?


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## BlazingSlow (Apr 18, 2009)

It's taking me 8 minutes just to memorize the edges, is it normal ?
It's my 3-4 attempt to solve the egdes blind


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## byu (Apr 18, 2009)

8 minutes? What solving method and what memo method?


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## BlazingSlow (Apr 18, 2009)

byu said:


> 8 minutes? What solving method and what memo method?



I'm currently learning Old Pochmann.

I'm memorizing the edges by touching the stickers and assigning a number to each one, but the touching is the main thing, the numbers only helps me keeping the track of them.


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## byu (Apr 18, 2009)

So basically a Visual/Numbers combination. You should only have to memorize an average of 12 items per solve (11 pieces, plus an average of 1 for breaking into new cycles). Does that mean you take 40 seconds to remember 1 edge piece ( which is (8*60)/12 )?


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## Gparker (Apr 18, 2009)

byu said:


> So basically a Visual/Numbers combination. You should only have to memorize an average of 12 items per solve (11 pieces, plus an average of 1 for breaking into new cycles). Does that mean you take 40 seconds to remember 1 edge piece ( which is (8*60)/12 )?



maybe he goes over his memo alot as hes memoing


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## BlazingSlow (Apr 19, 2009)

Gparker said:


> byu said:
> 
> 
> > So basically a Visual/Numbers combination. You should only have to memorize an average of 12 items per solve (11 pieces, plus an average of 1 for breaking into new cycles). Does that mean you take 40 seconds to remember 1 edge piece ( which is (8*60)/12 )?
> ...



Exactly !


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## MatsBergsten (Apr 19, 2009)

BlazingSlow said:


> It's taking me 8 minutes just to memorize the edges, is it normal ?
> It's my 3-4 attempt to solve the egdes blind



Maybe it's a little slow, but so what? It will go faster and faster the more you practise even 
if you don't practise speed. My first blind success took 15 minutes (But I do not remember 
memo/solving time). The main thing (and what gives that very nice feeling) is solving it, 
not solving it fast. Let that come later if you want.

Good luck!


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## cmhardw (Apr 19, 2009)

BlazingSlow said:


> It's taking me 8 minutes just to memorize the edges, is it normal ?
> It's my 3-4 attempt to solve the egdes blind



Think of your brain as a muscle. When I first started 3x3x3 BLD I was taking around 20 minutes to memorize the cube. I wasn't actively using any memory method, I suppose you could say I was using visual in a sense, but at the time it felt more like rote memory. Picture the difficulty in memorizing (taking a long time, needing lots of review to make sure you don't forget) as pushing a muscle to failure. Over time, your body adjusts and you can push it harder before it reaches that failure point.

Think of this period as you pushing your brain to failure until it starts to get used to the demands you are putting on it. Once you adjust you will notice that it gets easier and easier to memorize.

Chris


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## rjohnson_8ball (Apr 19, 2009)

Reminds me of Hanz and Franz of Saturday Night Live saying, "We will Pump You UP!"

I am taking too long on my memorizing, but it has improved a bit over time. I used to take 15 or 20 minutes to memo everything, reviewing about 3 times until I felt it was in my brain. Now my memo is about 5 minutes, with about 1 review. I am not pushing hard to go faster, I am enjoying the experience instead. The repeated practice is improving my memo. When (if) I go to a competition, I will probably need to "pump iron" and force faster memos. (I want to make sure I get under the 10 minute stacktimer limit.)


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## BlazingSlow (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks guys, i was beginning to worry 
Also i noticed that once i've memorized a solve pattern, i'm remembering it even after a few hours.


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## cmhardw (Apr 19, 2009)

BlazingSlow said:


> Thanks guys, i was beginning to worry
> Also i noticed that once i've memorized a solve pattern, i'm remembering it even after a few hours.



That's a sign that you are memorizing far too well for what is necessary, and yes that is possible. On my best solves, I can still remember parts of my solve after a couple minutes, but after 10 minutes or so I am forgetting really significant chunks of it.

If you can still remember your memo hours later, it means you are memorizing far too well for just one BLD solve. Try going much faster. You might DNF the cube the first couple tries, but you will find that you get used to it. Again think of the brain/muscle comparison.

@Robert
I do recommend to "pump iron" a bit before a competition, as you suggest. Not necessarily a couple days before, but maybe a week or two before. Also, and Mike has talked about this too, try doing as many solves in a row until you just get such mental fatigue that you really can't/don't want to do another solve anymore. This is another good way to prepare for the stress of solving in competition.

Lastly, and I can't stress this enough, *wear earplugs* !!! It does wonders when solving in competition ;-)

Hope this helps,
Chris


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## byu (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm trying to work out how to do Roman Rooms, I can figure out which piece to shoot to, but I can't figure out which orientation, is there some easy way to remember the orientation of the piece? I have a room with 12 items, each representing one edge. I have another room with 8 items, each representing a corner.


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## Bob (Apr 20, 2009)

byu said:


> I'm trying to work out how to do Roman Rooms, I can figure out which piece to shoot to, but I can't figure out which orientation, is there some easy way to remember the orientation of the piece? I have a room with 12 items, each representing one edge. I have another room with 8 items, each representing a corner.



If you want to remember orientation as well, you can just have 24 items in one room and 24 in the other.

For edges, you actually only need 22 items because the last edge will be solved because of the parity of the cube. Similarly, you would only need 21 for the corners (though I think visual works much better for corners. I am not very good at BLD, but I very rarely make mistakes on corners, remembering only something like "red goes to blue goes to yellow goes to yellow..."


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## rjohnson_8ball (Apr 20, 2009)

Bob said:


> byu said:
> 
> 
> > I'm trying to work out how to do Roman Rooms, I can figure out which piece to shoot to, but I can't figure out which orientation, is there some easy way to remember the orientation of the piece? I have a room with 12 items, each representing one edge. I have another room with 8 items, each representing a corner.
> ...



I don't do Roman, but am I right to conclude one should be familiar with 24 items for edges and 24 for corners, but one only needs to memo 11 or 12 of those edge items and 7 or 8 of those corner items?


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## Sakarie (Apr 22, 2009)

I haven't read all the pages, but I'll describe my memo-method anyway, with OP-corners, and m2.

The first CCT-scramble, with the same cubeorientation as I solve, orange front, yellow up. F2 L2 B L' R' U R F' U2 L' F U2 L R2 B2 D2 U2 R D' B' F D' B R2 B2

I have created a lettersystem, where every sticker has its own letter. 

Corners: 
URF=A
RFU=B
FUR=C
continuing with UFL, UBR, DFR, DLF, DRB and DBL, where every corner has three letters each, in clockwise order (and the on on U or D-face starts).

ULB has no letters, since it's my buffer.

Edges; almost the same thing.A-V in order, 
FR=A
RF=B
UR=C
RU=D
and then BR, DR, FL, UL, BL, DL, 
FU=Q
UF=R
and then UB, BU, BD and DB; every piece with to letters, one per sticker. 

DF has no letters, since it's my buffer. Altough FD is X in 4x. (W isn't in the swedish alphabet really.)

Memo method: My corner-buffer ULB goes to URF=A, which goes to DRB=P, which goes to U, to K G F N, which gives AP UK GF N. That means that I create a word of AP and UK, and place AP above UK in the first room in my house (not Roman room, but the first place in my "memory-walk". For example, an Ape, in the United Kingdom, who in some way have moved to my hall. The same thing with GF above N, which might be the Goblet of Fire, on a Nose, on my kitchen table (the second stop on my walk). If it's an odd number of letters, I know it's parity, which i solve, finishing with an m2-move, which means I have to remember to start with an S, which is the letter for the UB-sticker.

Than I start looking at DF, to see where that is going. If I have to start a new cycle, I always start with the highest (earliest) sticker/letter.

That gives me edges(' is new cycle):
SR' AT UI PK GF MA' CD

The last two letters, C and D, is on the same edge, but different stickers, whichs indicates that that edge should be flipped. Sometimes I do it the long way, first "solving" C, and then D, or i just flip it with some algorithm.


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## MatsBergsten (May 9, 2009)

We learn from you masters that it is good to memorize in pairs.
And I agree to that, it is good to have two letters or cubies as one
memory piece, that amounts to have to store only half as much information

But on the other hand we learn to memorize in pairs <person> <action>.
(Now I do not two's but "four's" like <person> <action> <object> <adverb>
but the same objection applies). Now Mike for instance describes how he
memorize CB as cab. But do you let go of the <person> <action> then?
Or do you have two sets of images, the first with <persons> and the second
with <objects>. (But both sets with pairs of letters).

So MHCB would be Mike Hughey (goes in a) CaB?

Chris just describes that two letters (KL or whatever they were) stands for a 
friend who is a drummer. Would KLCB be the drummer going in a cab or....

I tried to compile a list of persons for every letter combination but only managed
60% or so. It is a big difference between 24 persons or 24x23...


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## Mike Hughey (May 9, 2009)

Well, actually, I have 4 different sets of 24 "persons", each of which gets a single letter. I use them for my buffer pieces, since I don't have fixed buffers for centers. It's also nice because even where I have fixed buffers, I can use a different set of the "persons" for each cube when doing multi, which helps me keep from getting different cubes mixed up. (My four groups of persons are people I know, movie and TV stars, musicians, and cartoon characters.)

For most of my memorization I have a single person (representing the buffer piece) acting on up to three images (which represent two pieces per image). Usually it's three, but if it comes time to change buffer pieces or I run out, then it will be less. So I have a single location representing a buffer piece going through 6 other pieces.

From Ben Pridmore's video description of his method memorizing a pack of cards, it sounds like he uses a similar thing with the three images per location (although he doesn't have a person acting on them). So three images seems like a logical choice. (I decided to do that before I found out it's what Ben did - it was coincidence that I wound up doing the same thing.) Of course, the difference is that Ben has a lot more images than me.

Mats, I would think that coming up with a set of images for all four cases (person, action, object, adverb) would be pretty spectacular, and it might give you a big advantage on the rest of us, but I can see where it might be daunting to do. If you really decide to go for it, good luck to you. You might become nearly unstoppable - I might have to do the same if you start to regularly beat me someday. You might really be onto something powerful there.


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## MatsBergsten (May 9, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> Well, actually, I have 4 different sets of 24 "persons", each of which gets a single letter. I use them for my buffer pieces, since I don't have fixed buffers for centers. It's also nice because even where I have fixed buffers, I can use a different set of the "persons" for each cube when doing multi, which helps me keep from getting different cubes mixed up. (My four groups of persons are people I know, movie and TV stars, musicians, and cartoon characters.)
> 
> Mats, I would think that coming up with a set of images for all four cases (person, action, object, adverb) would be pretty spectacular, and it might give you a big advantage on the rest of us, but I can see where it might be daunting to do. If you really decide to go for it, good luck to you. You might become nearly unstoppable - I might have to do the same if you start to regularly beat me someday. You might really be onto something powerful there.



No no, you misunderstood me. I am not intending to memorize some 21x18x15x12 images, let alone 23x21x19x17 or some other daunting number. I still DO NOT use images, but I have to understand what you (and Chris/Daniel and other image/memo guys (Sorry Sarah ) actually do. What I do is memo Person Action Object Adverb/Adjective as a "Silly Word Sentence". And I do that on the fly, which takes time. Like you I have several (but only two) sets of persons (men / women) which I use for x-centers and +-centers. But I have been toying with the idea of some 400 persons (that is not a daunting number) so as to use 2 letters for person and 2 letters for action/object. My problem is that memo time variates (is that a word?) too much. In good cases I make a 3x3 in 30 seconds but sometimes up to 2 minutes (as in last comp ). I guess if you have two ready sets of 400 persons and 400 action/objects the average memo time would be lower.

As to beat you or the others we can dream of that. But I can also be satisfied with
beating you and Chris when you dnf:s as in last weeks comp. That was a nice 5x5BLD result list 

Thanks for your answer btw.


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## Mike Hughey (May 9, 2009)

MatsBergsten said:


> No no, you misunderstood me. I am not intending to memorize some 21x18x15x12 images, let alone 23x21x19x17 or some other daunting number. I still DO NOT use images, but I have to understand what you (and Chris/Daniel and other image/memo guys (Sorry Sarah ) actually do. What I do is memo Person Action Object Adverb/Adjective as a "Silly Word Sentence". And I do that on the fly, which takes time. Like you I have several (but only two) sets of persons (men / women) which I use for x-centers and +-centers. But I have been toying with the idea of some 400 persons (that is not a daunting number) so as to use 2 letters for person and 2 letters for action/object. My problem is that memo time variates (is that a word?) too much. In good cases I make a 3x3 in 30 seconds but sometimes up to 2 minutes (as in last comp ). I guess if you have two ready sets of 400 persons and 400 action/objects the average memo time would be lower.


No, I think maybe you misunderstood me. I was saying it sounds like you might be planning four 400-image lists - one 400-image list for persons, another for actions, a third for objects, and a fourth for adverbs. I can see how that could be very powerful - you could store 4 images at each location as a sentence. It might be really nice.



MatsBergsten said:


> As to beat you or the others we can dream of that. But I can also be satisfied with
> beating you and Chris when you dnf:s as in last weeks comp. That was a nice 5x5BLD result list



Hey, that's how I beat Chris for US Nationals! And you won't get that lucky this week. At least not on 5x5x5; I'm not sure about 4x4x4.


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## spdcbr (May 14, 2009)

I'm adding alternitives:

YO: yo-yo
OY: Oily
YG: Ignite
GY: Guy
YR: You
RY: Rock
OG: Ogre
GO: Gong/Exloplosion/Loud noise
OB: Boat 
BO: Box
BR: Brick/Brain
RB: Root beer
RG: Rage/Regret
GR: Grape/Grass
OW: Owl/Ow
WO: Wok/World
BW: Eyebrow
WB:Website 
RW: Write
WR: World Record/Rotten
GW: Game/Wish
WG: Wig


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## spdcbr (May 15, 2009)

Sorry, for double posting, but I figured thast this must have a seperate one. where can I find a link for hex decimals?


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## rjohnson_8ball (May 15, 2009)

spdcbr said:


> Sorry, for double posting, but I figured thast this must have a seperate one. where can I find a link for hex decimals?



Google "hexadecimal" and also look at binary notation. I use hexadecimal to memorize edge orientations for 3OP blindfold method. Each edge is either correct (0) or needs to be flipped (1). See cubefreak.net to understand how to figure out if an edge needs flipping. Each layer has 4 edges. You might memo 0 1 1 0 on the top layer, 1 1 1 0 on the middle layer, and 0 0 1 0 on the bottom layer. Each of these 3 binary numbers 0110 and 1110 and 0010 are respectively 6 and E and 2 in hexadecimal. Just memo "6E2". Sometimes you can dream up something to help you remember it, like "6E2" sounds like "sexy too". During execution time, decode it to identify the bad edges.


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## spdcbr (May 15, 2009)

rjohnson_8ball said:


> spdcbr said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, for double posting, but I figured thast this must have a seperate one. where can I find a link for hex decimals?
> ...



I don't get how to read the binary numbers. An what about L and R?


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## rjohnson_8ball (May 16, 2009)

spdcbr said:


> I don't get how to read the binary numbers. An what about L and R?



Did you use Google yet? Did you read the 3OP section at cubefreak.net?

Google binary, and look at a Wikipedia description. In base 10, the last digit of an integer is known as the "ones" column. The next digit to the left of that is the number of "tens". Next to that is the number of "hundreds". And so on. Each digit to the left indicates a value 10 times larger. In base 2 (binary), each digit in the left direction indicates values 2 times larger. So to count from 0 to fifteen in base 2, you would write 0000, 0001, 0010, 0011, 0100, 0101, 0110, 0111, 1000, 1001, 1010, 1011, 1100, 1101, 1110, 1111. For example 1011 in binary means (1 times 8) plus (0 times 4) plus (1 times 2) plus (1 times 1) which totals to 13 in decimal.

Determine ahead of time a consistent way to order all edges. For example, the first edge might be UF, and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th might be clockwise from that on the U face. Then the 5th through 8th edges are on the layer between U and D. The 9th through 12th are on the D face.

Using the 3OP method mentioned at cubefreak.net, a "properly oriented" edge can be rotated into its proper position and orientation by using R,L,U,D,F2,B2 twists only. The edge would require flipping if a single F or B twist would be required to orient it into its proper position.


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## hehehaha! (Jun 15, 2009)

I have a problem.
I use 3OP. But whenever I am doing set up moves for corner permutation. I will mess it up. I just cant reverse my moves in the right order. Is there some way you remember the set up moves. It also takes me a hell lot of time to figure out the set up moves for corner permutation. I think I need to learn a few more algos for corner permutation. I currently use only the (143) and (412) for CP.


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## Sakarie (Jun 21, 2009)

You can easily learn how to cycle any three corners in top layer (pre-oriented). Learn (143) multi-mirrored and backwards, and you have it!


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Jul 12, 2009)

I decided to explain my corner memory method. I use classic Pochmann for corners, but I'm sure you can use this memory method for every method.

Don't see the cube as a cube, but see the cube as a hexagon by holding it so your buffer piece is invisible and you see a hexagon with 6 corners and one corner in the middle (the polar opposite of the buffer position) Now, in this hexagon you visually memorize the permutation of the pieces, which is really easy because you have a somewhat 2-dimensional shape in your mind, and with letters you memorize the side you have to shoot to, giving each side a letter that is common in your language. Those are A, E, M, R, S and T for me. Because these letters are so common, you should be able to make easy words out of them. 

During solving, you combine the letter with the visually memorized position and then you know what sticker exactly to shoot to.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Aug 12, 2009)

Hmm...that seems nice; I might use it. I've only been blindfold solving for about 5 days, but I'll tell people what I use. It's just a basic number system. I give every corner sticker and every edge sticker a number from 1 to 24. Then I simply see what sticker on what piece must be placed in the up layer to be swapped with the buffer using a T perm. I simply memorize its number. I do that until the cube is solved. Between corners and edges, I memorize Y for yes, there is parity, or N, for no parity. However, your system for corners seems interesting, so I might use it.


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## danjon (Aug 13, 2009)

I use BH method now.last month I changed my memory method many times,such as:
1,Tradition code method.I used letters.numbers and Chinese characters at the same time,same codes for edge and corner.Finally I found I couldn't remember them clearly.
2,Codes for edge,Roman Rooms for corner.I could remember them clearly,but not fast.
3,Different codes for edge and corner.There are 43 different codes(22 for edge,21 for corner),Remembered nearly clearly,but I feared forget them when I solving the cube.
4,Same edge codes with method 1,and 7 codes for corner.This method is unique for Chinese,because each Chinese character has a tone besides the pronunciation.There are 4 different tones,I chose 3 of them in the codes.So each corner have a pronunciation,3 orientation have different tones.For example I used 妈（mother）,马（horse）and 骂（condemn） for UFL,FLU and LUF,all the pronunciation of them are Ma,but the tone are different.Used this method I could remember the codes clearly,and very fast.But there was another problem,when I solving the corner,I had to use much time to think which formula should I use:fp
5,Same edge codes with method 1,and same method with Haiyan Zhuang in corner.This method use different arrows to show the relationship of two corner.Finally I found if I have time to remember these arrows,I should remember the corner and the orientation directly!I trained this method about 15 days.it is not very fast now,but I think after one or two month when I familiar with all formulas of corner,it may faster and faster.


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## badmephisto (Sep 6, 2009)

The best posts from this thread should be documented on the Wiki  I looked but noone tried. Instead I see people explain the same thing over and over and over again 
And very good posts by very fast bld cubers are stuck in the 26 pages of chaos


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## Chuck (Sep 14, 2009)

badmephisto said:


> The best posts from this thread should be documented on the Wiki  I looked but noone tried. Instead I see people explain the same thing over and over and over again
> And very good posts by very fast bld cubers are stuck in the 26 pages of chaos




I'm so agree with him.
(Wow Badmephisto  I learned BLD from his video tutorial)

I'm starting to read this thread seriously now, page by page. There are so much useful informations, yet I haven't read all the 26 pages. Maybe I'll share my method too someday.


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## F.P. (Sep 22, 2009)

Chuck said:


> I'm starting to read this thread seriously now, page by page. There are so much useful informations, yet I haven't read all the 26 pages. Maybe I'll share my method too someday.



Your own/current method seems to work very well for few...are you planning on changing to a method just because it works for someone else?

Just wanted to mention that the memory methods which one has created (by a _created_ method I mean of course a modified version of already existing methods) him/herself are usually the best ones (for this certain person).


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 22, 2009)

F.P. said:


> Chuck said:
> 
> 
> > I'm starting to read this thread seriously now, page by page. There are so much useful informations, yet I haven't read all the 26 pages. Maybe I'll share my method too someday.
> ...



I quite agree. I still don't understand how Tim Habermaas's strange memory method (using images for single letters instead of pairs) could possibly get good results. But considering his 24/24 in just over 2 hours, I'd say it must be pretty close to perfect for him - I hope someday I come up with a system that works as well.


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## tim (Sep 22, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> F.P. said:
> 
> 
> > Chuck said:
> ...



Strange? I completely disagree. It's the most obvious memory system with images. And it's extremely simple, too. One image for one sticker. That's it. I don't see anything strange in it. And it's probably not the best system for me, but i love simplicity more than anything else, so i won't switch.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 22, 2009)

tim said:


> *Strange? I completely disagree. It's the most obvious memory system with images.* And it's extremely simple, too. One image for one sticker. That's it. I don't see anything strange in it. And it's probably not the best system for me, but i love simplicity more than anything else, so i won't switch.



I knew you'd say that. 

And how can anyone argue with it, considering your results?


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## tim (Sep 22, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> tim said:
> 
> 
> > *Strange? I completely disagree. It's the most obvious memory system with images.* And it's extremely simple, too. One image for one sticker. That's it. I don't see anything strange in it. And it's probably not the best system for me, but i love simplicity more than anything else, so i won't switch.
> ...



I knew you'd say that .

Anyway, my gf just pointed out, that you said "single letters". I think you know, that i didn't use letters to come up with my images. Honestly, i never understood why you should limit yourself to letters? There are far more awesome images starting with an S, B or T than there are for Z or Y (at least in German).
Actually i started with a list of letters and tried to find proper images. But after about 10 minutes i had two great images (i still use these two) i wanted to use. But both of them started with an S. So i skipped the whole letter crap and started making random images, somewhat related to the color of the actual sticker. You'll know your images by heart after a while anyway, so why the limitation of letters?


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 23, 2009)

tim said:


> Anyway, my gf just pointed out, that you said "single letters". I think you know, that i didn't use letters to come up with my images. Honestly, i never understood why you should limit yourself to letters? There are far more awesome images starting with an S, B or T than there are for Z or Y (at least in German).
> Actually i started with a list of letters and tried to find proper images. But after about 10 minutes i had two great images (i still use these two) i wanted to use. But both of them started with an S. So i skipped the whole letter crap and started making random images, somewhat related to the color of the actual sticker. You'll know your images by heart after a while anyway, so why the limitation of letters?



I didn't know that about your system, but of course it makes perfect sense. I've thought a few times lately that it might have been nicer to just come up with images without bothering with the letters, but of course now that would be too much work for me, so I probably won't do it.

By the way, just to actually contribute something new here, I thought I should mention the neat trick that Ryosuke Mondo told me he uses. Like so many of us, he has images for all letter pair combinations A to X. (Most of them in English, interestingly.) But what I thought was clever is that he apparently uses his list of these as his journey. He has double-letter pairs too, so his journey consists of his images as locations, AA, AB, AC, AD, ... all the way to XV, XW, XX. Which gives him 576 locations in his journey. A nice way to kill two birds with one stone - you memorize your letter pairs list, and you get a nice journey to go with it for free!

I doubt I'll ever use that, but if I ever suddenly need a really long extra journey (like I suddenly get handed an 11x11x11, but I have to try it that day), I might give it a try.


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## cmhardw (Sep 23, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> I quite agree. I still don't understand how Tim Habermaas's strange memory method (using images for single letters instead of pairs) could possibly get good results. But considering his 24/24 in just over 2 hours, I'd say it must be pretty close to perfect for him - I hope someday I come up with a system that works as well.



I met Boris Konrad at the 2006 World Sport Stacking Championships and he uses the same method for speed cards. He has one image per card, but his journeys are 52 locations long.

I like having 3 images per location. I've experimented with 1 image per location, 2, 3, and 4 per location. For some reason 3 just feels the most natural to me. That might be a bias from practicing that way the most often, but I do like 3 per location.

Chris


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 23, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> I like having 3 images per location. I've experimented with 1 image per location, 2, 3, and 4 per location. For some reason 3 just feels the most natural to me. That might be a bias from practicing that way the most often, but I do like 3 per location.



Me too! And it makes me feel comfortable using 3 images per location knowing that, according to the video of Ben Pridmore, he uses 3 images per location to memorize decks of cards.


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## Anthony (Sep 23, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> By the way, just to actually contribute something new here, I thought I should mention the neat trick that Ryosuke Mondo told me he uses. Like so many of us, he has images for all letter pair combinations A to X. (Most of them in English, interestingly.) But what I thought was clever is that he apparently uses his list of these as his journey. He has double-letter pairs too, so his journey consists of his images as locations, AA, AB, AC, AD, ... all the way to XV, XW, XX. Which gives him 576 locations in his journey. A nice way to kill two birds with one stone - you memorize your letter pairs list, and you get a nice journey to go with it for free!



I'm happy to say I was there when he said that. 
I still don't quite understand how he does it, but it obviously works for him.

I too was also surprised when most of his images were in English. I wonder if he ever gets confused seeing a certain image that was supposed to be translated in English, but instead he turns it into Japanese..


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## F.P. (Sep 23, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> I like having 3 images per location. I've experimented with 1 image per location, 2, 3, and 4 per location. For some reason 3 just feels the most natural to me. That might be a bias from practicing that way the most often, but I do like 3 per location.




But you don't use PVO, right?


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 23, 2009)

F.P. said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > I like having 3 images per location. I've experimented with 1 image per location, 2, 3, and 4 per location. For some reason 3 just feels the most natural to me. That might be a bias from practicing that way the most often, but I do like 3 per location.
> ...



I don't. But it does seem like a logical extension of the method I use. The only problem is that I use an extra person to represent the buffer piece (so I have a person acting on 3 images at every location), which is a bit wasteful, especially with the cases where my buffer doesn't change. Still, I'm starting to think it might be sensible to look at improving my system, and I wonder if this would be worth doing. Giving up a moving buffer would sometimes mean significant extra moves, especially on a 4x4x4, but it might be worth the sacrifice. So the job would be to triple my images, and start using a fixed buffer. Worth considering.


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## Chuck (Sep 24, 2009)

Wow, it's nice to see that this thread become alive again 



F.P. said:


> Your own/current method seems to work very well for few...are you planning on changing to a method just because it work for someone else?



Thank you, but I think there are still so much to improve. I'm using the same memory method for single and multi BLD, the difference is just on the reviewing length and the number of locations. It's hard for me to get sub 2 BLD if I still handling it like this.



tim said:


> It's the most obvious memory system with images.[/B] And it's extremely simple, too. One image for one sticker. That's it. I don't see anything strange in it.





tim said:


> I think you know, that i didn't use letters to come up with my images. Honestly, i never understood why you should limit yourself to letters? ... So i skipped the whole letter crap and started making random images, somewhat related to the color of the actual sticker. You'll know your images by heart after a while anyway, so why the limitation of letters?



I quite agree. I had the same experience. The difference is I'm using two image per sticker, one for odd items and the other for even items. This way, I never have to count the number of items at the end to know whether there is a parity, and it's also very useful on M2 edges. But I just doooooon't have any idea how can you be so fast. :confused:

Oh well, let's just practice more.



Mike Hughey said:


> By the way, just to actually contribute something new here, I thought I should mention the neat trick that Ryosuke Mondo told me he uses. Like so many of us, he has images for all letter pair combinations A to X. (Most of them in English, interestingly.) But what I thought was clever is that he apparently uses his list of these as his journey. He has double-letter pairs too, *so his journey consists of his images as locations,* AA, AB, AC, AD, ... all the way to XV, XW, XX. Which gives him 576 locations in his journey. A nice way to kill two birds with one stone - you memorize your letter pairs list, and you get a nice journey to go with it for free!



Ugh, I tried so hard to understand this but I failed.  Maybe someone would willing to give me an example?


----------



## piemaster (Sep 26, 2009)

I'm trying to make some words for my edge pieces...any help appreciated!
YO: Yo-yo
OY: Oil
YG: Yogurt
GY: Guy
YR: Your
RY: Rain
OG: Ogre
GO: Go
OB: Obese
BO: Body odor >=D
BR: Brick
RB: Rabbit
RG: Rag
GR: Green
OW: Ouch
WO: WOO HOO!! 
BW: Bow
WB: Web
RW: Row
WR: World record
GW: Gown
WG: Wig

Yay! I'm done!


----------



## miniGOINGS (Sep 26, 2009)

GY: Guy
WO: WOOO HOOO!!


----------



## piemaster (Sep 26, 2009)

I'm really stuck on the rest...hmmmmm...

EDIT: Only YG and YR! Yay! As soon as I finish I think I'll start BLD...
EDIT2: Hmm....yogurt, how about yogurt....


----------



## Mike Hughey (Sep 26, 2009)

Chuck said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, just to actually contribute something new here, I thought I should mention the neat trick that Ryosuke Mondo told me he uses. Like so many of us, he has images for all letter pair combinations A to X. (Most of them in English, interestingly.) But what I thought was clever is that he apparently uses his list of these as his journey. He has double-letter pairs too, *so his journey consists of his images as locations,* AA, AB, AC, AD, ... all the way to XV, XW, XX. Which gives him 576 locations in his journey. A nice way to kill two birds with one stone - you memorize your letter pairs list, and you get a nice journey to go with it for free!
> ...



Mondo printed out all of his images on pieces of paper, and had them hanging around his room so he could memorize them. They're in order, 6 to a page, from AA to XX. So say you have an aardvark as AA, abacus as AB, ace as AC, and advertisement as AD. You use these as the locations in your journey, and have your other images interact with these images in your journey. It's not confusing because you are just going through your images in order as locations. The only confusing thing would be if you had to put an abacus image at your abacus location, but then I'd probably put another abacus on top of the first one or something. Really, in an ordinary journey, the locations are some sort of "image" anyway, so why not reuse the images you've already used as locations? I have a couple of locations in my rooms that can sometimes conflict with images for letter pairs, but they never really cause me problems. For instance, I might have a bathtub as a location in a room, and I might hit TB (tub) as an image to go there. So I'll imagine a little toy bathtub inside the tub that's the location. That sort of thing.

If I ever get my hands on an 11x11x11, I think I'll forget my prepared rooms and just go with this technique instead for it.


----------



## Chuck (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks, Mike. I understand now.
It's an amazing and smart method.


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## Cride5 (Sep 30, 2009)

I created a BLD memorisation page on the Wiki to consolidate the information in this thread
However, my understating of memorisation methods isn't really up to the job of completing it 

The page is currently a DNF (Stub), so if anyone wishes to share their knowledge and add to the page, it would be greatly appreciated


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## MatsBergsten (Sep 30, 2009)

Cride5 said:


> I created a BLD memorisation page on the Wiki to consolidate the information in this thread
> However, my understating of memorisation methods isn't really up to the job of completing it
> 
> The page is currently a DNF (Stub), so if anyone wishes to share their knowledge and add to the page, it would be greatly appreciated



Just a little comment on letter pairs: as I have understood it it is more common that a letter pair stands for two cubies (each cubie has a letter), i.e both moves in a 3-cycle. At least for me each letter pair solves two cubies at a time. But then I am to lazy to learn letter pairs (as yet).


----------



## Cride5 (Sep 30, 2009)

MatsBergsten said:


> Cride5 said:
> 
> 
> > I created a BLD memorisation page on the Wiki to consolidate the information in this thread
> ...



Aah right, thanks. I've updated it. My only knowledge of memorisation comes from dabbling in Old Pochmann, so not that extensive!


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## MichaelErskine (Oct 2, 2009)

I've outlined the method that I'm currently learning for memorisation using objects representing pairs of colours...

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/BLD_Memorization#Colour_Pairs

I'll add a partial table of suggested objects later tonight.


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## MatsBergsten (Oct 4, 2009)

msemtd said:


> I've outlined the method that I'm currently learning for memorisation using objects representing pairs of colours...
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/BLD_Memorization#Colour_Pairs



Wow, I made it into the Wiki


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Oct 4, 2009)

Lol, congratulations, Mats!  (And Michael, please think of me for the Red-White-Blue corner )


----------



## MichaelErskine (Oct 4, 2009)

MatsBergsten said:


> Wow, I made it into the Wiki





trying-to-speedcube... said:


> Lol, congratulations, Mats!  (And Michael, please think of me for the Red-White-Blue corner )


Hehehe - I already have Orange-Blue for "_Anything/anyone Dutch_" as this colour combination always represents the Netherlands for me.


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## Cride5 (Oct 4, 2009)

msemtd said:


> I've outlined the method that I'm currently learning for memorisation using objects representing pairs of colours...
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/BLD_Memorization#Colour_Pairs
> 
> I'll add a partial table of suggested objects later tonight.



Nicely done! Keep up the good work


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## curious (Oct 23, 2009)

Hi,
I've labelled every sticker/position with a letter, I am now giving each letter a person action and object.

eg. [sticker E] 'E'rik solving cube
[sticker B] 'B'atman driving batmobil.

yes, I am workin on a PAO system. Only problem is, I'm runnin out of ideas. I would appreciate some
famous people that can be associated with an action and an object.

letters needed:
I, K, L, N, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y.


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## PEZenfuego (Oct 23, 2009)

curious said:


> Hi,
> I've labelled every sticker/position with a letter, I am now giving each letter a person action and object.
> 
> eg. [sticker E] 'E'rik solving cube
> ...



Why not label every POSITION with a letter and then memorize it that way. For me, that is a much better way. You don't have to do any preparation either...just make it up as you go.


----------



## HASH-CUBE (Oct 23, 2009)

> letters needed:
> I, K, L, N, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y.



Not famous, but may help?

I: Im doing my home working
K: Kitty is eating meat
L: Lion is running in the jungle
N: Newton is eating an apple
S: Spider man is climbing the building
T: Tony Fisher is modding a puzzle
U: User is typing a message
V: Verdes is selling a v-cube 7
W: Wizard of OZ is closing the gates
X: Xerox machine is printing
Y: Youtube is brodcasting


----------



## curious (Oct 24, 2009)

PEZenfuego said:


> Why not label every POSITION with a letter and then memorize it that way. For me, that is a much better way. You don't have to do any preparation either...just make it up as you go.



Well, that's what I previously did, and i would try to make words out of the letters.
But it doesn't work out very well for me, if I have a bunch of random letters like, B,T,R,Z, etc


----------



## curious (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks hash-cube, i will just make up something for the letters.


----------



## Tim Major (Oct 24, 2009)

HASH-CUBE said:


> > V: Verdes is selling a v-cube 7
> 
> 
> Lol. Fat chance with all the Chinese companies, who will soon make a 7x7 knockoff. I lolled so hard at this.


----------



## curious (Oct 24, 2009)

Ok, I've gave it some thought, but i still need a person, action and object for U, X and Z! 

(In case your wondering, I go up to the letter 'Z' because Upper and Middle layer are letters A-M and D layer is S-Z)


----------



## MatsBergsten (Oct 24, 2009)

curious said:


> Ok, I've gave it some thought, but i still need a person, action and object for U, X and Z!
> 
> (In case your wondering, I go up to the letter 'Z' because Upper and Middle layer are letters A-M and D layer is S-Z)



Ulysses, Xerxes & Zeus, is it easier with bld memo for a Greek? The English alphabet is too short.

But really, if you practise a little more you can have 23 persons, one for each cubie. They shall all be persons you know well, but they may all have names that begin with the same letter. Tim is probably the smartest regarding memo, to take the turnabout and connect each cubie with a letter and then a person with that letter is just that, a turnabout.


----------



## cmhardw (Oct 30, 2009)

curious said:


> Ok, I've gave it some thought, but i still need a person, action and object for U, X and Z!
> 
> (In case your wondering, I go up to the letter 'Z' because Upper and Middle layer are letters A-M and D layer is S-Z)



Persons:
Uma (Thurman)
X-men (any of them)
I also like Zeus, go with what Mats said 


Actions:
U: to use, to un-anything (unzip, untie, undress, etc.)

X: don't use a verb that starts with X, but use things that are eXTREME! That's how I handled my one syllable X words, see my page here www.speedcubing.com/chris/memo-words.html and look at the entire section for letter pairs starting with X. These words are all either eXtreme or taboo things, and that lets me know that the image is an "X" image.

Z: zap (as in shoot with a beam of something, laser beam, microwave beam, etc.), zip, zigzag, zero (as in to "zero in" or focus intensely on something), zoom (as in to zoom in, kind of like to zero in), zone (as in to zone out, or lose focus)

Objects:
U: Umbrella, underpants, umpire, etc. etc.
X: xylophone, x-ray machine, x-ray goggles, or go with the eXtreme idea and make the object something very huge or extreme or also maybe taboo
Z: zebra, zealot (the sham-wow guy for example), zuccini, Zoe (if you know a Zoe), Zombie, Zepplin

Chris


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## calekewbs (Nov 16, 2009)

My friend made an interesting method for memorizing orienting edges.

Basically he calls it binary memo. 

He count's a 1 if it is flipped correctly and a zero if it is flipped incorrectly.

Then he checks it in groups of 4 (basically the top, then the middle, then the bottom edges.) He starts with the FU edge and works clockwise. Then he checks the RF edge and works clockwise. Then he does the DF edge and works clockwise.

So he gets three groups of four. Each group has 16 possible sequences and for each sequence he has a picture/idea to remember. such as 0000 is a chain, 1110 is a snake, and 0110 is a double headed snake. 

He is pretty much a beginner to BLD and I'm trying to think of some other similar ways to memorize the rest (he is learning 3-op btw). I think I have a good idea for corner orientation, but perm is a whole 'nother story.


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## PM 1729 (Nov 17, 2009)

I think that is the standard method for edge orientation(using binary).Instead of using images, you can also convert it to decimal/hexadecimal.In hex, it would be only three digits.
Corner permutation is really easy.You could try visual.


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## calekewbs (Nov 17, 2009)

yeah, I pretty much use full visual. That's just what he came up with. lol


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## Carson (Dec 11, 2009)

I finally took the time to read through the entirety of this thread since I have recently begun to work on trying to accomplish bld. I have tried a few times, but have had no real success.

The actual memo is really holding me back, and was hoping that I would find something buried in these pages that would help. Unfortunately, it seems like I already have a pretty solid understanding of how the memo works. It is just a matter of me as of yet being unable to do it. Some of us are "blessed" with an absolutely horrid memory. This may take awhile... but I'm getting pretty determined to do this!


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## F.P. (Dec 11, 2009)

It's all practice.


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## MichaelErskine (Dec 11, 2009)

Carson said:


> The actual memo is really holding me back, and was hoping that I would find something buried in these pages that would help. Unfortunately, it seems like I already have a pretty solid understanding of how the memo works. It is just a matter of me as of yet being unable to do it. Some of us are "blessed" with an absolutely horrid memory. This may take awhile... but I'm getting pretty determined to do this!



You may be in a similar situation as I am: I've been trying to blindsolve for nearly a year and I can only do edges so far -- my brain just won't retain another 8 objects in the correct order! I'm getting quite accomplished at edges though.


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## F.P. (Dec 15, 2009)

msemtd said:


> You may be in a similar situation as I am: I've been trying to blindsolve for nearly a year and I can only do edges so far -- my brain just won't retain another 8 objects in the correct order! I'm getting quite accomplished at edges though.



That's really weird; tell me everything about how you are currently trying to memorise stuff...letters, numbers, images, routes etc.

I can help you to be able to memorise everything you need in a very short amount of time.

If you are struggling with this for about a year now, then you are clearly doing something wrong.

You may pm me if you want to.


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## cmhardw (Dec 15, 2009)

msemtd said:


> You may be in a similar situation as I am: I've been trying to blindsolve for nearly a year and I can only do edges so far -- my brain just won't retain another 8 objects in the correct order! I'm getting quite accomplished at edges though.



You need a different method then. I struggle to remember 4 or 5 tasks at work when I am given a number of things to do in a very short time. However I can remember the 92 pieces (really it's usually only about 84 that you memorize) of a 5x5x5 cube in just a few minutes because I use a powerful memory method (routes). I don't have a strong natural short term memory, but with a method like the method of loci (routes) you don't need to have a good memory!

If your current memory method makes it difficult to memorize the cube, then *ditch it for a better one* (for you)!



Chris


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## MichaelErskine (Dec 16, 2009)

F.P. said:


> That's really weird; tell me everything about how you are currently trying to memorise stuff...letters, numbers, images, routes etc.
> 
> I can help you to be able to memorise everything you need in a very short amount of time.
> 
> ...





cmhardw said:


> You need a different method then.
> ...
> If your current memory method makes it difficult to memorize the cube, then *ditch it for a better one* (for you)!



OK, my memory method is a story made up of a sequence of images - one for each colour pair as described on Stefan's "old" page and similar to that in badmephisto's BLD videos.

My stories are a simple narrative that loosely associates the objects in a recallable sequence (usually people giving each other gifts!). Would you both suggest I mentally locate each item in a room, or say, at locations on a well-known route? Perhaps some vastly different technique is better suited. Please bear in mind that my brain appears to be resistant to learning new things


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## F.P. (Dec 16, 2009)

Use routes instead of a story, since you have problems with memorising the images in the correct order.

First create a good and easy route for bld cubing...it should be a real route which means that it should be your way home from work or the way from your bathroom to your bedroom...something like that.

The amount of route points your route(s) should have depends on the amount of images you have per solve.

Put one image on each route point and let the image interact with your routepoint...try to involve as many senses as possible when memorising the images.

Once you've created your route, you shouldn't change it anymore...the point of using routes is to have the exact same route everytime...otherwise you could just use stories.


By the way...I have letters assigned to each single edge-sticker and I create images with pairs of two letters; so I always memorise two edges with one image.
Maybe you wanna try something like that (maybe for corners only, since edges seem to work for you).


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## MichaelErskine (Dec 16, 2009)

F.P. said:


> Use routes instead of a story, since you have problems with memorising the images in the correct order.



OK, I have a simple route partially memorised (a route through my home with 79 waypoints in total - very easy to recall after only an hour). I've only tried one solve so far and I only forgot to include one location out of the first 14 in an edges-only solve so it's looking promising for remembering the sequence.


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## Sakarie (Dec 16, 2009)

msemtd said:


> F.P. said:
> 
> 
> > Use routes instead of a story, since you have problems with memorising the images in the correct order.
> ...



79 waypoints?! How do you memorize?!

14 places for edges, that's not good, but it's resonable. I guess that you have one image per location, or two per location, but pre-oriented. Still, it would probably be better to cut it down to fewer.

Then you have 65 left... for 8 corners... I don't know how you plan to do it, but I only want to say that it would probably be easier with fewer waypoints.

But recalling 79 places, after one hour, that's not bad at all! 

I'm sorry if I misunderstood something, and underrated having 79 waypoints...


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 16, 2009)

Sakarie said:


> msemtd said:
> 
> 
> > F.P. said:
> ...



It's great - it gives him the ability to do multiple cubes, or 4x4x4 or 5x5x5 later. Awesome job!

Eventually you can experiment with putting multiple images at each location. I use 3 images per location. That can really increase your capacity. But it sounds like you're off to a good start.


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## blah (Dec 16, 2009)

Carson said:


> I finally took the time to read through the entirety of this thread since I have recently begun to work on trying to accomplish bld. I have tried a few times, but have had no real success.
> 
> The actual memo is really holding me back, and was hoping that I would find something buried in these pages that would help. Unfortunately, it seems like I already have a pretty solid understanding of how the memo works. It is just a matter of me as of yet being unable to do it. Some of us are "blessed" with an absolutely horrid memory. This may take awhile... but I'm getting pretty determined to do this!


We'll talk about this when I go home (to Kentucky).


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## MichaelErskine (Dec 16, 2009)

Sakarie said:


> 79 waypoints?! How do you memorize?!
> 
> 14 places for edges, that's not good, but it's resonable. I guess that you have one image per location, or two per location, but pre-oriented. Still, it would probably be better to cut it down to fewer.
> 
> ...



Well, the waypoints are very simple (car, path, tree, porch, front door, coat hooks, mirror, stairs, landing, bathroom door, etc.) and with one object per location I only get upstairs into the bathroom before I have all my edges! I haven't tried the corners yet (I need to work on the setup moves for the Y-Perm corner swaps) but my edges have been recalled perfectly so far with only forgetting the odd waypoint in the 5 or so solves I've tried so far. I feel quite inspired and I hope for a success in the next few days.

I have the whole house in the route so It may prove useful for things beyond cubing memorisation. BTW: the article that worked best for me for this first "Elephant Path" was http://memory-sports.com/2009/03/28/how-to-become-a-memory-champion-part-1/

I feel a bit foolish for not having tried this before now  I think that although I'd heard of this technique many times before, I thought that learning all my colour-pair objects was enough to cope with. I didn't realise that a journey through my home could be so easy to incorporate with the objects. Now I'm a bit worried that I won't be able to disassociate the objects between solves! I've already had the situation twice in my stories where a door is covered in soup and that's a difficult image to erase


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## MichaelErskine (Dec 16, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> It's great - it gives him the ability to do multiple cubes, or 4x4x4 or 5x5x5 later. Awesome job!
> 
> Eventually you can experiment with putting multiple images at each location. I use 3 images per location. That can really increase your capacity. But it sounds like you're off to a good start.



Thanks Mike, I feel great about this new development. I've had the feeling for some time that there was something I was missing!


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## cmhardw (Dec 17, 2009)

msemtd said:


> Now I'm a bit worried that I won't be able to disassociate the objects between solves! I've already had the situation twice in my stories where a door is covered in soup and that's a difficult image to erase



This is the one downside to using routes. I also have the exact same problem, and for this reason I always rest my journeys about a week before reusing them. I have 7 routes created for doing 5x5x5 solves, 9 routes for 4x4x4 solves, and 30 routes for 3x3x3 solves. This works out to around 230 routepoints or journey locations.

What this means is that I can only do seven 5x5x5 solves within a week, nine 4x4x4 solves, and thirty 3x3x3 solves. Realistically I never do this many, but it allows me the option to do so. Also, I always rest two 5x5x5 routes, three 4x4x4 routes, and six 3x3x3 routes for use only in competition. This means I end up resting them for 3-6 month stretches.

I, like Mike, place 3 images per routepoint. This means we require fewer routepoints per solve than those who use one image per location. Some world class memory experts place three images per location (Ben Pridmore), and some world class memory experts place one image per location (Boris Konrad). Basically use the method you prefer most for memorization. If you place 3 images per location you end up refining your images, their personalities, how they interact with eachother, etc.. If you place one image per location you end up refining your journeys, having plenty of them, making sure they are very vivid, etc.. At least this is what I have gathered from talking to both Ben and Boris about this topic.

Hope this helps,
Chris


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 17, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> msemtd said:
> 
> 
> > Now I'm a bit worried that I won't be able to disassociate the objects between solves! I've already had the situation twice in my stories where a door is covered in soup and that's a difficult image to erase
> ...



I admit I don't have the same problem Chris does with remembering old solves. For some reason it's just not a big problem for me - I reuse regularly. I often find myself reusing rooms every 2 days.

It seems to me that using 3 images per location helps that, though. If you wind up with the same exact "picture" at a location twice in a row, it does tend to get pretty well cemented in your mind, and it's hard to break. But with 3 images per location, it's highly unlikely you'll get the exact same set of 3 at the same location twice in a row - in fact, it almost never happens.


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## aronpm (Dec 17, 2009)

I only have 3 routes, and they're only long enough to store a single 3x3x3 each. That's using 2 images per location, and 1 sticker per image. I do find that I have trouble reusing my route, but after each solve, I try to visualize going through the route, but with no items. It works much better if I try to visualize in great detail the items that are actually on that route. 

It sucks, though, when you do a solve, and the solve afterwards has the exact same person in the exact same place, just doing something different. That's why I've started cycling through my routes.

I am thinking about switching to letter pairs, so I would have one 2 images per location and 2 stickers per image. That's 'more powerful', right? I'm also unsure about corners. I currently use a horrid system where I memorize letters for orientation, numbers for permutation, and solve one piece at a time. Would it be better to practice visual memorization?


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## F.P. (Dec 17, 2009)

msemtd said:


> Now I'm a bit worried that I won't be able to disassociate the objects between solves! I've already had the situation twice in my stories where a door is covered in soup and that's a difficult image to erase



That's normal; I'd recommend you to create a few routes for 3x3x3 bld cubing; they don't have to be that long and you can use a different one each time. It usually takes about 2 days until the images are more or less erased.


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## Daniel Wu (Dec 30, 2009)

Okay. So, I'm using M2 and Old Pochmann for blindsolving and it's been working out okay. One difficultly that I've been noticing though is that I'm horribly slow at memorizing (can be up to 4 minutes or more) despite a decent amount of practise. Of course I could use much more practise. My method for memorizing was some sort of PAO system that got overdeveloped and extremely complicated. I kept forgeting parts of it and I don't even remember how to do it because I put in ways to detect M slice orientation, parity, flipped egdes, and flipped corners. It was to complicated and confusing so now I decided that I want to try to start with a clean slate and a new memory system. 

I was thinking of trying something like this. For edges, there will be one image per sticker. I'll memorize the images in groups of two and use Roman rooms. One room with ten places will be more than enough for one cube. I don't really have a good idea for a simple system for corners. I was thinking that maybe I'd try memorizing the corners visually but then taking the sticker position and remembering the color and assosciate that with the corner position that was visually memorized (if that made any sense...). 

So yeah. Is this a good idea? Bad idea? Just stupid???

(And yes, I know I need much more practice.)


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## powershotman (Dec 30, 2009)

rickcube said:


> Okay. So, I'm using M2 and Old Pochmann for blindsolving and it's been working out okay. One difficultly that I've been noticing though is that I'm horribly slow at memorizing (can be up to 4 minutes or more) despite a decent amount of practise. Of course I could use much more practise. My method for memorizing was some sort of PAO system that got overdeveloped and extremely complicated. I kept forgeting parts of it and I don't even remember how to do it because I put in ways to detect M slice orientation, parity, flipped egdes, and flipped corners. It was to complicated and confusing so now I decided that I want to try to start with a clean slate and a new memory system.
> 
> I was thinking of trying something like this. For edges, there will be one image per sticker. I'll memorize the images in groups of two and use Roman rooms. One room with ten places will be more than enough for one cube. I don't really have a good idea for a simple system for corners. I was thinking that maybe I'd try memorizing the corners visually but then taking the sticker position and remembering the color and assosciate that with the corner position that was visually memorized (if that made any sense...).
> 
> ...


hi,rickcube ,
have u watched ericlimeback's vid ?
it's a old vid,
1letter for 1 surface of edge
and then u might come out with words like CAKE,SIR,RUN, or something 
which is quite easy for me to memorise

for corners,i think i do the same with you..
i will say the colour out and memo the sequence 
i just dont find any other method to memo 

anyone enlighten me?


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## PEZenfuego (Dec 30, 2009)

powershotman said:


> rickcube said:
> 
> 
> > Okay. So, I'm using M2 and Old Pochmann for blindsolving and it's been working out okay. One difficultly that I've been noticing though is that I'm horribly slow at memorizing (can be up to 4 minutes or more) despite a decent amount of practise. Of course I could use much more practise. My method for memorizing was some sort of PAO system that got overdeveloped and extremely complicated. I kept forgeting parts of it and I don't even remember how to do it because I put in ways to detect M slice orientation, parity, flipped egdes, and flipped corners. It was to complicated and confusing so now I decided that I want to try to start with a clean slate and a new memory system.
> ...



I love the memo method he uses for corners. Epic win imo.


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## ZamHalen (Dec 30, 2009)

I've learned old pochman and can do solves(without the blindfold).But i'm having a problem with memorizing the cube.I have tried the system that is shown on Pochman's site but i can't find things for all of the color pairs.So whenever i try memorizing i end up asking people for help with finding things for different colors which i realize isn't a good idea because i might forget it.
Is there a memorization method that someone can recommend for me?I'll also mention that i've been thinking about trying visual memorization.Should i give that a shot?
(Sorry if this isn't a thread for questions like this.All i've got to say is it seemed a good idea at the time.)


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## PEZenfuego (Dec 30, 2009)

ZamHalen said:


> I've learned old pochman and can do solves(without the blindfold).But i'm having a problem with memorizing the cube.I have tried the system that is shown on Pochman's site but i can't find things for all of the color pairs.So whenever i try memorizing i end up asking people for help with finding things for different colors which i realize isn't a good idea because i might forget it.
> Is there a memorization method that someone can recommend for me?I'll also mention that i've been thinking about trying visual memorization.Should i give that a shot?
> (Sorry if this isn't a thread for questions like this.All i've got to say is it seemed a good idea at the time.)



Assigning a letter to each sticker is a good start. Let me elaborate. For example when you memorize the edges the U face of the cube could have a b c d for the 4 edges. The front face could have e f g h...etc

Then all you have to do is determine what letter the buffer piece has to go to think of a word for it and then move on to the next part. It makes going through cycles a lot easier than with Pochmann's memo method (for me at least-everyone is different). Or you could use the method described in the above video. You look at your buffer piece, memorize the color via memorizing a letter, then tap where it needs to go to memorize it that way. 

Just go with what you feel. If one method isn't right for you, try another.


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## Sakarie (Jan 15, 2010)

My memosystem for 3x3 right now is like this: 

I start memoing edges, with every sticker have a letter. I bunch them together four by four, improvising images, which somtimes is two images (letters 2+2, 1+3 or 3+1) merged into one. The images are placed into a place in a memoryroute (infact I only have like 5, since I hate breaking in new memoryroutes.) Each route consists of three places, covering the ~12 letters of the edges. 

Then I memo corners, one letter per sticker. I stick them in pairs (cause that's how I will solve them), and than just bunch all of the pairs together. 

I solve corners first, with BH, so I barely have to remember them. Edges have to be remembered a bit better, since it's like 40 seconds between memo and solve, done with M2.


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## ribonzz (Feb 1, 2010)

Damn I can't memorized it yet! I already learn it for 2 month


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## Micael (Feb 4, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > msemtd said:
> ...



Personnally, I had that problem, but it was easily solve by creating more "route". Now I use 24 (for 24 3x3x3 or less for big cubes) and it is a nice amount. Quite useful for multiBLD where images are stored more memorable and thus take longer to forget. If I do not practice a lot, it can takes up to two weeks before I re-use a route and I found out that in that case memo can be fast and safe (despite few practice).


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## blizzardmb (Feb 4, 2010)

How long are the typical "routes"?
I was planning on making some and I have no idea how many points they should have. Can an experienced blindsolver please help me out?


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 5, 2010)

blizzardmb said:


> How long are the typical "routes"?
> I was planning on making some and I have no idea how many points they should have. Can an experienced blindsolver please help me out?




Hey.
Well my routes have 4 points but usually i only really need 3.
Thats because i make 1 image out ouf 2. If you have single images, i think you sould have 8 points.

Greetings, Dennis


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## blizzardmb (Feb 5, 2010)

DennisStrehlau said:


> blizzardmb said:
> 
> 
> > How long are the typical "routes"?
> ...



Only 8!? Shouldn't I have enough to at least solve all of the edges on a 3x3? Or am I just misunderstanding something?


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## MichaelErskine (Feb 5, 2010)

blizzardmb said:


> Only 8!? Shouldn't I have enough to at least solve all of the edges on a 3x3? Or am I just misunderstanding something?



Some people memo multiple items per waypoint. I only have one route but it has about 60 waypoints. Since it is a route through a house I can start in different rooms of have different rooms for different solves or parts of solves. But my advice is not really worth much since I'm slow as hell and I can't yet do corners on a 3x3x3


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## Micael (Feb 6, 2010)

blizzardmb said:


> DennisStrehlau said:
> 
> 
> > blizzardmb said:
> ...



Just put 2 images per location and you cut down the amount you need. Also it is usually more "compress" to do so because some interaction between these images can makes them more like a single one (a so call "chunk"). 
As an example, I currently use PA (person-action) and put 2 PA per location so I need at most 4 location for edges (usually 3) and 3 for corners (usually 2). So my routes are 7 locations: 4 dedicated to edges and 3 to corners.


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## ZamHalen (Feb 9, 2010)

I finally started to learn visual memorization but i have a problem.I've been memorizing the different taps in beats(I'm a musician so thats the way I found was easiest)but I can only memorize maybe half of the edges maybe 5 corners.So what should I do? Should I change from memorizing beats and rhythms?Or am I missing something about this method?


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## cincyaviation (Feb 26, 2010)

does anyone have a good way to remember number letter combinations? of up to 12 numbers (1-12) and 6 letters


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## peedu (Mar 2, 2010)

Hi!
I hope this is helping...

Using image per letter pair the combination BJ gets a certain censored meaning very often.

Do you know what I am thinking when I see BJ?

I think about James Bond, because a guy named BJ Worth did most of the skydiving stunts in 007 movies.

So...
JB is 007 and BJ is the stuntman. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0941654/


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## Kabuthunk (Mar 3, 2010)

Ok, don't yell at me, because I'm very new to Rubik's Cube in general (not counting when I was 5 years old, playing with one not knowing with to do with it 25 years ago). But with Blind solving... for the official tournaments, should I make the blindingly safe assumption that you're not allowed to use a Blind-man's Rubiks cube (http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY---Rubiks-Cube---Blind-Mans-Cube---Metal-Rubi/).

That's one thing that's always bothered me, is whether someone who's actually blind could compete in one of the blind-solving competitions using such a cube.

Again, new to this, I'll learn the obvious over time.


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## aronpm (Mar 3, 2010)

Kabuthunk said:


> Ok, don't yell at me, because I'm very new to Rubik's Cube in general (not counting when I was 5 years old, playing with one not knowing with to do with it 25 years ago). But with Blind solving... for the official tournaments, should I make the blindingly safe assumption that you're not allowed to use a Blind-man's Rubiks cube (http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY---Rubiks-Cube---Blind-Mans-Cube---Metal-Rubi/).
> 
> That's one thing that's always bothered me, is whether someone who's actually blind could compete in one of the blind-solving competitions using such a cube.
> 
> Again, new to this, I'll learn the obvious over time.


I don't know if any blind people have entered in blindfold events. Generally, blind cubers would be allowed to use a cube where the stickers have different textures. Of course, they can't do that in blindfold solving! They need two cubes: the textured cube and a normal cube. They memorize on the textured cube, and solve on the normal cube. The judge will have to make sure that both cubes are scrambled the same, and that the person starts holding the normal cube correctly (otherwise they wouldn't be able to solve it).

Regulation 2s3: For competitors with visual disabilities, inspection and solving can be done on a puzzle with different textures or Braille objects. The solving phase must be done according to the Blindfolded Solving regulations. For the blindfolded events the solving phase must be done on a puzzle with regular stickers or tiles.


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## qqwref (Mar 3, 2010)

In the blindfolded event you're not allowed to be able to tell pieces apart by feel, so blindman's cubes as well as textured cubes are not allowed. For blind competitors, the regulations for blindfold cubing allow using a blindman's/textured cube for memorization, but still require using a plain unmarked cube for the actual solving part.


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## Kabuthunk (Mar 3, 2010)

Well, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks guys, that put to rest a curiosity that's been bugging me for a while


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## MichaelErskine (Mar 3, 2010)

Kabuthunk said:


> But with Blind solving... for the official tournaments, should I make the blindingly safe assumption...


The rules for official competitions can be found at the WCA website here: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/

If a blind competitor ever wants to enter an event then some of the basic rules would need to be modified. It would be interesting to say the least


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 3, 2010)

MichaelErskine said:


> Kabuthunk said:
> 
> 
> > But with Blind solving... for the official tournaments, should I make the blindingly safe assumption...
> ...



So you don't feel that the rules for blind competitors in the regulations would work as is? Why do they need to be modified?


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## MichaelErskine (Mar 3, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> MichaelErskine said:
> 
> 
> > Kabuthunk said:
> ...



Ah! Clause 2s3: -


> 2s3)	For competitors with visual disabilities, inspection and solving can be done on a puzzle with different textures or Braille objects. The solving phase must be done according to the Blindfolded Solving regulations. For the blindfolded events the solving phase must be done on a puzzle with regular stickers or tiles.



I must admit I didn't read that at first. Sorry, I'm a foolish man


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## Raffael (Mar 4, 2010)

Yesterday evening, there was a report on memory methods on German tv magazine 'Galileo'.
It will be available online here:
http://www.prosieben.de/tv/galileo/folgen/


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## ribonzz (Mar 4, 2010)

Left up = L
Left down = L'
Right = R
Right down = R'
Head right = U
Head left = U'
Foot right = F
Foot left = F'

Put the apostrophe again for 2 times spin.


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## tjtj_pr0 (Mar 31, 2010)

what about Ville or Haiyan memory method? can they memory each case for edge or cornner?


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## MichaelErskine (Mar 31, 2010)

tjtj_pr0 said:


> what about Ville or Haiyan memory method? can they memory each case for edge or cornner?



Good point. Could you outline the methods for us? Even better, just update the wiki page.


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## amostay2004 (Mar 31, 2010)

I think Haiyan just uses letters (and numbers, probably).

IMO most memory methods can be super fast, the trick is to never play safe and just memo as fast as possible. Eventually you'll get there.


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## tjtj_pr0 (Apr 1, 2010)

MichaelErskine said:


> Good point. Could you outline the methods for us? Even better, just update the wiki page.



ok, after saw the list of BH algorithms i know it's absolutely impossible 

so, thanks for this website! it's very useful for me


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 1, 2010)

tjtj_pr0 said:


> MichaelErskine said:
> 
> 
> > Good point. Could you outline the methods for us? Even better, just update the wiki page.
> ...



No, it's really not - it's surprisingly easy*! Learn them like you learn intuitive F2L - follow the pieces, and understand how they work. Then memorization becomes easy, because it's just a small number of classes of algorithms, mirrored, inverted, and rotated around the cube. Corners are much easier than edges, though.

*Note: I should point out the emphasis here is on "surprisingly". It's not actually easy - it's probably a little harder than learning intuitive F2L, but my point is that it seems like it should be impossible, but when you try it, you realize it's not much harder than learning intuitive F2L - just a little bit harder.


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## MatsBergsten (Apr 1, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> tjtj_pr0 said:
> 
> 
> > MichaelErskine said:
> ...



I totally agree with Mike. I have recently been trying to learn full OLL and I am close (though slow also according ty my measure). Still I found/find that a very very much harder task than all BH-algs together. There are a few BH-cases that takes a little while, but most of them are easy to understand.

OLL on the other hand, phew. A twist here and another there, totally haphazard algs.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 1, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> tjtj_pr0 said:
> 
> 
> > MichaelErskine said:
> ...


I don't agree. I found BH edges much easier to understand than BH corners. It's just that M2 already is a great method so you won't win as much time with mastering BH edges as with BH corners. 

The reason I think this is because with edges you have lots more freedom for what kind of move you're doing. The interchange move can for example be either a face turn or a slice move, while on corners it can only be a face turn. The insertion can even be 3 different things:
- For a slice move interchange it's 3 face turns;
- For a face turn interchange it's slice-face-slice or face-slice-face.
That gives you a lot more freedom during edges, and it also makes it a lot easier to find an interchange between 2 edges.


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 1, 2010)

I guess the thing I found hard about BH edges is that when you're figuring them out on your own, it's hard to be sure you're optimal. It's easy to find a fairly quick algorithm (even 8 moves!) and still not be optimal.

With BH corners, that rarely happens. If you think you have an optimal algorithm, you probably do.


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## jackdexter75 (Apr 15, 2010)

where can I find a bld fold pdf. or something. I want to start but have NO idea what anyone is talking about. and my pc can't play vids... so any ideas for now until I can get to a friends and at least watch some vids on the subject.?


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## Zane_C (Apr 15, 2010)

Is it common to BLD solve in this order?
memo corners > memo edges > solve edges > solve corners


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 15, 2010)

Zane_C said:


> Is it common to BLD solve in this order?
> memo corners > memo edges > solve edges > solve corners



It's probably more common to do:
memo edges -> memo corners -> solve corners -> solve edges
since that way you don't need to memorize the corners for long, and it's so short to memorize them. (They can go in your short-term memory.) But there's certainly nothing wrong with doing it your way.


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## Daniel Wu (Apr 15, 2010)

I have a question. I made another memory method for myself. It's like PAO just I want to use it for Multi BLD for the edges. So I made a Person Action (No object) system for myself so I could keep track of the M slice (I use M2). If I use this with the journey method or Roman rooms, does this have any potential for Multi?


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## maltew (Apr 15, 2010)

rickcube said:


> I have a question. I made another memory method for myself. It's like PAO just I want to use it for Multi BLD for the edges. So I made a Person Action (No object) system for myself so I could keep track of the M slice (I use M2). If I use this with the journey method or Roman rooms, does this have any potential for Multi?



i use the exact same thing for edges. works great for me. my best multi was 6/6.
its very accurate and stays in the memory for a long time if you pick action that are easy to visualize.
i have a lot more problems with corners using letters


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## Zane_C (Apr 26, 2010)

I want to improve my visual memory for the 3x3 corners. Would heaps of 2x2 BLD solves give me much of an improvement? or would I be better off by doing multi BLD?


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## Faz (Apr 28, 2010)

I find that my 6 or so multi attempts have helped my visual memo alot.


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## Chuck (Apr 28, 2010)

maltew said:


> rickcube said:
> 
> 
> > I have a question. I made another memory method for myself. It's like PAO just I want to use it for Multi BLD for the edges. So I made a Person Action (No object) system for myself so I could keep track of the M slice (I use M2). If I use this with the journey method or Roman rooms, does this have any potential for Multi?
> ...



i use the exact same thing for everything. works great for me. my best multi was 50/54.
its very accurate and stays in the memory for a long time if you pick action that are easy to visualize.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

Yes I've read this thread but the first post isn't clear at all IMO
You can thank *cmhardw* for feeling the need to close my thread because he believes BLD doesn't need threads..anyway. So you guys get the headaches now!



> Ah ok..the parenthesis are for my use
> 
> Letter Pairs-Using alphabet to assign to each peice (POSSIBLE)
> 
> ...





> Also, when i start doing blinded solves, how will I know whether to flip an orientation of an edge (or corner for that matter)
> 
> For example, say for a setup move it's a simple L' and then do the T perm to get that peice into buffer (then undo setup)
> 
> ...


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## ianini (Jun 3, 2010)

RyanReese09 said:


> You can thank *cmhardw* for feeling the need to close my thread because he believes BLD doesn't need threads..anyway.



:fp You just didn't bother to search for that type of thread as there have already been several similar threads in the past.


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## joey (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah, ryan, it doesn't bode well to take that sort of tone with cmhardw.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

as you can probably tell im not a forum user..didn't know there were search functions..


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## joey (Jun 3, 2010)

You have 53 posts, and you have an account on the forum.
That qualifies as a forum user.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

:fp: ..I'm not a regular


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## MiloD (Jun 3, 2010)

RyanReese09 said:


> :fp: ..I'm not a regular



and forever it will be RyanReese09, the guy who started his own redundant thread on the BLD board...

Anyway... as far as the flipped edge thing goes, The edge being flipped when you undo [L'] as a setup move implies that you should use different setup moves, such as [d' L] instead of memorizing that it will being flipped and flipping it. If this doesn't answer your question could you possibly rephrase?


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

I know that a flipped edge means a new setup move, but my question is (sorry for poor phrasing, it's hard to put this into words ), how will I memo this? Aka, I'll memorize that I need to put that peice in the Tperm slot (on the left edge peice, if you know what I mean) but ..

Ok, say I do an L' to setup move, Tperm, undo with L . The peice that is in the FL edge spot is incorrectly flipped..so I gotta L', tperm, and L and now I'm back where I am. I do diff setup move, tperm, and undo setup move.

All is good now, but my question is, I could easily (as in that example) mistake the setup moves and get an incorrect flip, *how could I ensure that I don't do something stupid like the incorrect flip? Is there a secret?*

Sorry if the answer is blatantly obvious, I've thought about it and unless I actually visually go through the moves in my head, I won't know about the incorrect flip (though that could mess up my memo for the rest of the solve that I'm trying to remember )


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## joey (Jun 3, 2010)

You memo LF OR FL, then you put that piece there.

It's that simple.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

I'm not quite understanding you joey, How would that help me? (Yes I'm dense, though I am *very* new to BLD, just started 1 hour ago)

I should also mention I don't know memo techniques (i'm asking around in 1 question answer thread thing to have them distinguished, but no response so far)


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## MiloD (Jun 3, 2010)

RyanReese09 said:


> I know that a flipped edge means a new setup move, but my question is (sorry for poor phrasing, it's hard to put this into words ), how will I memo this? Aka, I'll memorize that I need to put that peice in the Tperm slot (on the left edge peice, if you know what I mean) but ..
> 
> Ok, say I do an L' to setup move, Tperm, undo with L . The peice that is in the FL edge spot is incorrectly flipped..so I gotta L', tperm, and L and now I'm back where I am. I do diff setup move, tperm, and undo setup move.
> 
> ...



sounds to me like you are memorizing pieces instead of stickers...


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## joey (Jun 3, 2010)

Just do what you said about following the moves to do the correct flip.

You shouldn't be asking questions if you only started an hour ago.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

Nope, if I see a white sticker on top in the buffer, I look at the white side to see what sticker needs t obe on the other end of the tperm, but I'm just asking *how to remember that?* Because unless I have some sort of memory, I could easily just do any setup move and do a perm and that would screw up my orientation of the edge peice.

I'm thinking of making a video to explain this, it's hard in just plain words.

[edit]ok joey, so should i remember what setup moves i should do when in real solve? (after i have the memo down) That way I don't do wrong setup?


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## kinch2002 (Jun 3, 2010)

You just remember what sticker it is. You seem to be confused about the fact that you might need a memory for bld. Don't memorise piece positions. Memorise specific stickers instead


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## MiloD (Jun 3, 2010)

joey said:


> Just do what you said about following the moves to do the correct flip.
> 
> You shouldn't be asking questions if you only started an hour ago.



jesus christ let him ask his stupid questions. he can ask whatever he wants, he already got his stupid thread deleted. the culture of elitism on this forum is really getting to me.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

I know I will need memory for BLD, I was wondering though if my memory needs to extend outside of the memo, and get into the setup moves

Do this
Tperm, L', Tperm, L

How would I memorize that basic case? Just as an example (not moves, but sticker memo)

edit-milod, yes I was thinking the same thing, we all started new at some point, everyones being harsh on the new BLD guy..
edit-off to the gym, bb in 2 hours or so


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## kinch2002 (Jun 3, 2010)

RyanReese09 said:


> I know I will need memory for BLD, I was wondering though if my memory needs to extend outside of the memo, and get into the setup moves
> 
> Do this
> Tperm, L', Tperm, L
> ...



Well it depends on your memo method, but using visual, you see that the *U*R sticker goes to *F*L, which in turn goes to *U*L so you just remember the front-left sticker followed by the up-left sticker.

EDIT: I think most of the guys who have been doing bld for ages realise that they were also noobish at some point, but they also know that they didn't rely so much on other people when they learnt. Remember that internet information on cubing hasn't been around all that long, and most of these guys had to figure a lot of stuff out by themselves, so they get a little peeved when new blders come along expecting to be told step-by-step what to do by other people. You've got to give a lot of guys credit for what they did to advance bld methods.


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## MiloD (Jun 3, 2010)

RyanReese09 said:


> I know I will need memory for BLD, I was wondering though if my memory needs to extend outside of the memo, and get into the setup moves
> 
> Do this
> Tperm, L', Tperm, L
> ...



so UR slot is the buffer

first sticker is FL, sticker in FL slot is UL

FL: L' Tperm L
UL: Tperm


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

IT JUST CLICKED. THANK YOU SO MUCH <3


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## joey (Jun 3, 2010)

MiloD said:


> joey said:
> 
> 
> > Just do what you said about following the moves to do the correct flip.
> ...



Why is me wanting him to do some exploration of his own "elitist"?

I think you'll find I am not elitist at all. So please, shut up.

edit:
Isn't calling his thread "stupid", elitist from you?


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

I did explore, but many other sites (and videos) explained in such a poor way

The videos explained well, but didn't go quite in depth

Sites just made it too hard

THus I came here.


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## joey (Jun 3, 2010)

Eugh. Why do people think written tutorials are bad? That's what it seems like.

I learned from Stefans page, and I worked it out, yes it took me a bit of time, but I understood it after a while.


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## kinch2002 (Jun 3, 2010)

People seem to sway towards video tutorials these days. I'm not sure why, because I find written pages so much easier. Maybe I'm too old or something. I used no sources except Macky's 3OP page when I learnt bld and I never had to look up any other places or ask anyone anything - I just sat down and studied the page for an afternoon until I could do it. Videos seem like less effort but in reality it's quite hard to not miss out anything while your filming. Written guides are so much more comprehensive


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## MiloD (Jun 3, 2010)

joey said:


> MiloD said:
> 
> 
> > joey said:
> ...



maybe a little but at least i was being helpful


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## joey (Jun 3, 2010)

I was being helpful.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 3, 2010)

True helpful, but a but harsh


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## joey (Jun 3, 2010)

I was not harsh in anyway.
But I don't care to carry on with these pointless posts.


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## Feryll (Jun 3, 2010)

kinch2002 said:


> People seem to sway towards video tutorials these days. I'm not sure why, because I find written pages so much easier. Maybe I'm too old or something. I used no sources except Macky's 3OP page when I learnt bld and I never had to look up any other places or ask anyone anything - I just sat down and studied the page for an afternoon until I could do it. Videos seem like less effort but in reality it's quite hard to not miss out anything while your filming. Written guides are so much more comprehensive



Don't worry, I'm only 14, and I still prefer written tutorials over anything. When someone coughs or something while explaining, or is just hard to hear at that time, I get frustrated. You can easily look oveer everything again in written tutorials

I learned from Joel's page, though. I liked the layout better. Macky's was too liney-looking, and I wanted Old Pochmann. Just the opinion of a short-attention span customer.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 8, 2010)

*Walks awkwardly back up here*

*waves shyly*

Hi, don't hurt me. I was trying to memorize BLD for the competition (Washington DC Spring) that's happening this Sunday. I signed up for BLD but I've been putting off fully getting the memorization down.

I think I have the edge memorization done.

I've seen Badmephistos video on how you only have to memorize two colors for the corners, he tries to explain it, but I am at a loss to realize why this works? And how I could apply it to every corner.

Obviously I've tried looking for answers so don't bite my head off about searching 

A few of them have people telling other people to memorize the 3 colors instead of two (how bad is that? I might go with that, but if so, how?)

I shoiuld also say, I have found good threads! Like this
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62

I almost understand it, but then he uses a different memo technique and that just kills it.

I memorize like this (I forget what it's called, and this is for edges by teh way)

UF RD UB etc etc


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## joey (Jun 9, 2010)

Don't triple post.
Especially when the third post is just a bump.

Also, use the edit button, so you don't post twice in a row.

You don't memorise "3-colours" for the corner. Just memo the piece it is.


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## Weston (Jun 9, 2010)

joey said:


> Don't triple post.
> Especially when the third post is just a bump.
> 
> Also, use the edit button, so you don't post twice in a row.
> ...


No, memo a banana if the piece is yellow.


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## MichaelErskine (Jun 9, 2010)

Weston said:


> joey said:
> 
> 
> > You don't memorise "3-colours" for the corner. Just memo the piece it is.
> ...



No, *memo the piece* with whatever technique you want to use to memo pieces  -- _one example being,_ memo a banana if the piece is yellow.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 9, 2010)

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=570
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3819

I have read those, all of which explain how to memorize corners. However, in some (especially bad mephistos video) he explains you only need 2 color system.

This is extremely hard to put in words..
PS-I don't understand the banana reference if it's a yellow peice, a yellow peice means nothing, corner wise, there are 4 options


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## joey (Jun 9, 2010)

I don't know what your problem is.. you don't memorise colours.. your memorise pieces.


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## rjohnson_8ball (Jun 9, 2010)

The reason you only need 2 colors to identify a corner is because of the color scheme on your cube. For example, there might be 2 corners containing red and white, but one corner will be Red-White-Blue as you read the colors clockwise around that corner, and the other will be White-Red-Green as you read the colors clockwise. So you can identify the first as Red-White and the second as White-Red.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 9, 2010)

:fp:

anyone else understand me?
edit-thank you rjohnson, you understand. Thanks 

edit-in your example, which way are yo ufacing the cube so it's red white blue? just so i got the clockwise motion down


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## joey (Jun 9, 2010)

.. Just get your cube and look.

And that's for *identifying* corners, not memorising them.


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## kinch2002 (Jun 9, 2010)

Like Joey, I don't see why you need to memorize several stickers on each piece. As long as you know where the piece needs to go (pretty obvious) then you just memo sticker cycles and then you only need to memo 7 stickers. Tbh, the colour should barely enter your mind. If I memoed a cube and then you asked me what colour DFR was, I wouldn't have a clue straight off. I could work it out from my memo but I never even think about colours when I'm solving. What method are you using for corners?


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 9, 2010)

I'm probably doing the smae method as my eedges (I don't know what it's called)

SOmetimes my memo is

UF BR FL etc etc

I want to do the same for corners.


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## joey (Jun 9, 2010)

So you just memo "UF BR"?


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## aronpm (Jun 9, 2010)

Up front, bro.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 9, 2010)

Yeah, I memo that the UR buffer position neds to go into the UF spot, then the UF spot (new buffer peice) needs to go into the BR, etc etc until all peices solved.

That's all I memo for edges.


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## joey (Jun 9, 2010)

Right, but im asking HOW do you memorise it. Do you just memorise the letters "UF"?


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## kinch2002 (Jun 9, 2010)

So for corners, you should just memo DFR FUL RBU etc. There's not really any need to pay any attention to anything except the first letter in each. If you use visual memo (i.e. just remembering the path that the cycle goes by imagining a cube in your head) then you just remember the sticker position on your path - basically it should end up being a path of 7 stickers if there's only one cycle of corners.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 9, 2010)

I create words out of it and it forms a sentence, and then I just go through the sentence in my head

Thanks kinch


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## kinch2002 (Jun 10, 2010)

You mean that you have a letter assigned to each sticker?


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 10, 2010)

No, say I have a scramble. I look at hte buffer. That peice needs to go into the FL. I determine FL not LF because the UR peice needs to go into the FL

U sticker matches the F
R sticker matches the L

Thus UR peice needs to go into FL

You are the one who originally made this concept "click for me lol. I don't have an individual letter assigned to each sticker. I just memo that UR needs to go into FL, and that FL needs to go into BD, and that BD needs to go into FR etc

Are you guys understanding?

but anyway, this was supposed to be talk of corner Memo


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## kinch2002 (Jun 10, 2010)

Ok so how do you choose your words that make your sentences? Corner memo should be the same as edge memo really. On edges you're memoing *U*R to *F*L, so on corners you just do the same e.g. *D*FR to *L*BU. Remember that on your edges, the second letter doesn't really matter because it's just the other part of the piece of the sticker that you are memoing (obviously you still need to remember what piece it is though). So, on corners, for my example you don't even need to think of the fact that D*F*R goes to L*B*U


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## ThatGuy (Jun 10, 2010)

RyanResse you are using badmephisto's style of memoing right? I tried that when I started but the problem is there aren't many choices of words you can make with those letters. Also, you have to memorize twice as much. I would assign a letter to each sticker for corners. That way you are memoing on average half the # of letters. Pair the letters up and create words from that. Plus, using the position with 2 letters for corners is more time consuming because you have to figure out stuff clockwise etc.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 10, 2010)

Meh, I need this down by sunday

This might be asking too much, but kinch, could you do a very basic scramble to help s..ok

Do this. Yellow top, Orange front (bare with me)

R
Yperm
R'

Basic case. Give me the memo (just doing this example will *guarentee I understand you*

Case in point-if you remember the edge memo, I understood that via a basic example


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## joey (Jun 10, 2010)

Ryan: I really believe you have no idea what is going on. What are you asking us to show you?

For R Y-perm R', you would memorise FRD.

Do you really mean a Y-perm, or the old pocmhmann "y-perm"?


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 10, 2010)

I mean a Y perm

and i think i have it now

Say I do F2, then Yperm, F2 

Memo would be...DLF?


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## joey (Jun 10, 2010)

RyanReese09 said:


> I mean a Y perm
> 
> and i think i have it now
> 
> ...



Yeah.


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## RyanReese09 (Jun 10, 2010)

awesome. got it.


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## palmcubes (Aug 16, 2010)

i give evrey color a number
yellow=1
orange=2 ect.
for edges i memorize the numbers
i also give each corner a letter i use the letter for permutation and number for orrientation


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## Daniel Wu (Sep 14, 2010)

I kinda have been changing my memory system. I do M2 with CO and CP. I use 24 letters and now I group them groups of 4 letters to memorize. So for example, ESPA BGJK VX. Then I make up an image for each group of letters on the spot and link them together with a link memory system. It's only two images because ESPA is linked to BGJK and then BGJK is linked to VX. It's less stuff to memorize than the person action system I was using before. Then CO and CP is visual (for now..). It's nothing new. Just thought I'd share.


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## Erzz (Sep 19, 2010)

I assign a letter to each piece, then when I memorize I make a story-type-thing. For example, say I got "AFERHDJ..." I could make a story "A french elephant ran home drinking juice" or something. It's easy to remember. I just make two stories, one for edges and one for corners.


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## Faz (Sep 23, 2010)

Erzz said:


> I assign a letter to each piece, then when I memorize I make a story-type-thing. For example, say I got "AFERHDJ..." I could make a story "A french elephant ran home drinking juice" or something. It's easy to remember. I just make two stories, one for edges and one for corners.


 
That's good, but it can be optimized even more for memory. Aronpm is really good at making these up quickly.

EG:

AFERHDJ

AFter ERik HiDes...

Funny thing is, I saw ER, and memo-ed Cornelius, and then thought, no Erik would be a better example, and it was extremely coincidental that Erik has the ER for 3x3


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## Killermanp (Sep 23, 2010)

*Blindfold memorization techniques*

I am trying to learn blindfold cubing, but I can't do it without the paper, any and all help would be 'help'ful.


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## KboyForeverB (Sep 23, 2010)

story method, eg. 
I once found a "wig" that was at "war" with a "yoyo".


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## Cubenovice (Sep 24, 2010)

My stories feature Superman, Smurfs, Bananaman and today there was even a vomiting parrot...

Each sticker has its own image/person/action:
Blue yellow Edge:
Blue side = bananaman (blue suit with a little yellow)
Yellow side= train (dutch trains have a yellow body with blue trim)

Green-orange Edge:
Green side = Parrot (green with orange beak)
Orange side = Carrot (you get the idea)

Same for corners


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## amostay2004 (Sep 24, 2010)

People-Action-Object is a slow memo method for 3x3 single bld IMO.

Just use letters for edges, and memo them in whatever way you wish to associate them. Certain groups of letters are easier to memo by sound, some through story, some a mixture of both, etc


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## RyanReese09 (Sep 24, 2010)

What's the best way to do a single corner memo 3x3 solve? Aka for a single solve, what is the easiest memo way? Edges are no problem memo wise, but corners...diffficult


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## Cubenovice (Sep 24, 2010)

amostay2004 said:


> People-Action-Object is a slow memo method for 3x3 single bld IMO.
> 
> Just use letters for edges, and memo them in whatever way you wish to associate them. Certain groups of letters are easier to memo by sound, some through story, some a mixture of both, etc



Yeah I already found that out...
But I will first try to get a bit more comfortable with BLD solving (set up moves, flipping/twisting and parity) and then indeed change to a letter system.



RyanReese09 said:


> What's the best way to do a single corner memo 3x3 solve? Aka for a single solve, what is the easiest memo way? Edges are no problem memo wise, but corners...diffficult


 Why are corners more difficult? There are more edges?


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## amostay2004 (Sep 24, 2010)

RyanReese09 said:


> What's the best way to do a single corner memo 3x3 solve? Aka for a single solve, what is the easiest memo way? Edges are no problem memo wise, but corners...diffficult


 
I would recommend some kind of auditory system. For example I label each corner with a letter followed by a vowel to determine it's orientation, and Kirjava uses some Japanese characters thingy 

I've never used 3OP for corners but if I do I'd memo CP with numbers and CO visually


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## Cubenovice (Sep 24, 2010)

Or use a different letter for all three stickers of the corner


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## RyanReese09 (Sep 24, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> Or use a different letter for all three stickers of the corner


 
thats what i do



Cubenovice said:


> Yeah I already found that out...
> But I will first try to get a bit more comfortable with BLD solving (set up moves, flipping/twisting and parity) and then indeed change to a letter system.
> 
> 
> Why are corners more difficult? There are more edges?


 
dunno. i just did a try, 3:30 for edge memo, corners...around 16 minutes
My edge memo was
Special victims question jay about losing fights N
corner memo was
kites gust over seas ...something.. promising ryan vows x

i know the corner memo was 9 total, i'm just missing something there

23 minutes some total dnf. anyway, lettering isn't cutting it


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## Truncator (Sep 24, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> EG:
> 
> AFERHDJ
> 
> AFter ERik HiDes...


The problem I have with this is that I sometimes forget which letters in the word actually apply to my memo. I might accidentally do something like this:

AfTer ERik HIdes...


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## Cubenovice (Sep 24, 2010)

@ Ryan: Then perhaps for corners you could try to do the name-person-action type thingy as in my post on the previous page.
Just find some words for every sticker that are easily recognizable for you. 

Edges and corners do not have to be the same memo style.


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## RyanReese09 (Sep 24, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> @ Ryan: Then perhaps for corners you could try to do the name-person-action type thingy as in my post on the previous page.
> Just find some words for every sticker that are easily recognizable for you.
> 
> Edges and corners do not have to be the same memo style.


i'll try, although I don't really understand how the name/person/action concept applies to the stickers. i suppose i'l go read more up on it to try and understand


RyanReese09 said:


> thats what i do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 That "something" is "questioning" . remmebered it ;P


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## cmhardw (Sep 24, 2010)

@Ryan: I definitely recommend an auditory system for corners. I use single syllable words for corners, with prepared words for all cases, and corner memo is just so quick and simple with such a system. Do some research on auditory memory if you're curious. There is something called the 10 second auditory loop, and this is how you are memorizing. It takes literally no effort to memorize this way, as your brain is wired to do this automatically. Utilize what your body is capable of instinctually without effort, and this will speed up your memorization - and make it easier to do as well!

@ everyone: Another method that I used to be a fan of is linked lists. It's difficult to do many solves in a row this way because of massive memorization interference, but it makes for super easy and fast single solves.

AFERHDJ using linked lists would be a story, but not exactly journey style. Each letter is an image that has that letter as it's first letter.

So my images would be:
*A*lligator *Ph*one (PH is like F) *E*lephant *R*hino *H*itler *D*ark Knight (a.k.a. Batman) *J*ubilee (from X-men)

Now the way you memorize this is by using the linked lists method. My visualization would be the following. *WARNING* I am not being polite with this memorization list at ALL. I am typing quite literally what I would memorize with this list. One of the things the memory experts told me was to go so over the top funny/bloody/violent/sexual that you can't help *but* memorize it. This list is an example of a particularly violent list, but it's vivid enough that I guarantee that it would be easy to memorize.

I picture an *Alligator* moving it's mouth up and down. I am picturing it as if I am right in the Alligator's face and about to be bitten. I then zoom out my mental image a bit and see that in fact the Alligator is not chewing, but is in fact talking on a *Phone*. An *Elephant* standing next to the Alligator is angry at the noise and trumpets into the phone to get the Alligator to hang up. I am imaging a sort of side scrolling from left to right here to give you some context. The elephant is so angry, and trumpets so hard, that it farts onto a *Rhino* standing behind it. This makes the Rhino so angry that it runs a bit to the right and charges right into *Hitler*, mauling him to a bloody pulp of broken bones and bodily fluids leaking everywhere. The *Dark Knight* (Batman) laughs at the mangled dead body of Hitler, and walks over and kicks it. Standing behind Batman, *Jubilee* from the X-men shoots the Dark Knight with her sparks and energy field, presumably because she was mad at Batman for kicking the dead body for some reason. Batman is blinded by the sparks, trips and falls onto the dead body, getting blood and guts all over himself.

Linked lists are easy to memorize with, because they are so vivid and easy to picture/remember. This is also their downfall, because it is difficult to forget what you just memorized and start fresh with a new solve. I find it to be a very quick technique for memorizing, but don't expect good solve times for anything more than 1 or 2 solves in a row memorizing this way.

Chris


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## Zane_C (Sep 24, 2010)

@ Truncator: That's why it helps to have a prapared list of pairs, but after a while you will develop them as you go along.


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## RyanReese09 (Sep 24, 2010)

The main problem I have is finding good words to use

Like..take this recent 21 minute dnf I did
edges were..

(NOTE THAT MY MEMO IS SEXUAL)


Spoiler



vagina juice xtra hot that a lick must questionable **** pussy



8/8 edges done. no problem once again. 6 minute or so memo with another minute of confirming it

corners


Spoiler



g spot q x **** mothers now



1 corner already was fixed

edit-the **** is the F word


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## Zane_C (Sep 24, 2010)

It helps if you can atleast make a bit of sense out of it.


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## RyanReese09 (Sep 24, 2010)

Zane_C said:


> It helps if you can atleast make a bit of sense out of it.


 
i fail at making sense of it though :-/
another 20 minute some dnf..alot wrong iwth it


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## Forte (Sep 24, 2010)

AFER HoDJ would be my memo >_>


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## Cubenovice (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm actually dong the same thing as Chris, the only difference is that my words are based on the actual colors of the pieces.


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## Marcell (Sep 24, 2010)

RyanReese09 said:


> i fail at making sense of it though :-/


Still, that's the way to go. As I'm reading your memos that you've written down, these are more or less random words put after each other. Human brain sucks at remembering stuff like this. You should choose words that you can actually visualize and use to build sentences, and forget words like "questionable" right away. Take a look at the words in the memo Chris proposed for example.
If you find that you're taking a long time finding out words on the fly, you should sit down once and write your own list. I suggest that you only choose nouns, this way you can fill in the verbs (and thus the story) when memoing the actual cube.


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## amostay2004 (Sep 24, 2010)

You probably should try not to build one word out of every letter you memorise. Try to connect two or four words (I memo in groups of 4 letters) into a single word or something else you associate with. For example your first memo: 


Spoiler



vagina juice xtra hot that a lick must questionable **** pussy



which I assume is VJXH TALM QFP, I would just rely on sound and visual memory to remember those. Which means I'll pronounce the words in my head (VaJ XaH, Talm (direct pronounciation, like 'calm', QueFoP). The first 4 letters are tough because it's easy for me to confuse with other letters that have the same sounds eg FaJ SaH, etc. So I'd visualise the first four letters in my head just to make sure I see those letters when I pronounce them and not get confused.


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## MrMoney (Sep 24, 2010)

amostay2004 said:


> You probably should try not to build one word out of every letter you memorise. Try to connect two or four words (I memo in groups of 4 letters) into a single word or something else you associate with. For example your first memo:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 
As corny as it may sound, using your seHsual imagination REALLY helps with remembering stuff. I wont tell what my images are, but when letterpairs such as SM, DP, GH, AM and others come I always remember them.

Just don´t say them out aloud.


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## Killermanp (Sep 25, 2010)

hmmm, I will try these methods, so story first, ok. Sounds easy enough. Thanks guys!


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## Killermanp (Sep 25, 2010)

SeHual imagination soudns fun as well, hahahad


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## Billbowser (Oct 2, 2010)

I use a custom letter pair for big cubes center.

Uface
Ba Bi
Be Bu

F face
Ca Ci
Ce Cu

L face
Da Di 
De Du

B face
Fa Fi
Fe Fu

R face
Ga Gi
Ge Gu

D face
Ha Hi
He Hu

So if the cycle is Ulb>Fru>Lru i memorize it Ball and a CD(BaCiDi).


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## aronpm (Oct 2, 2010)

Billbowser said:


> I use a custom letter pair for big cubes center.
> 
> So if the cycle is Ulb>Fru>Lru i memorize it Ball and a CD(BaCiDi).


You shouldn't need to memorize the buffer.


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## Joker (Oct 2, 2010)

I make a song. I use pieces in positions and give them a letter of the alphabet like lots do. But instead of story, I use a song. Usually a rap.
BTW
I'm not that into BLD, so I use old Pochmann.


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## Ranzha (Oct 2, 2010)

*Ranzha's Epically Terrible Blind Memo Method*

I do not suggest anyone use my memo method. It's quite stupid, in my own opinion, but it's secure.


When I solve BLD, I use a 4-step system.
These steps are corner orientation, edge orientation, corner permutation, and edge permutation.
Abbreviated, they are CO, EO, CP, and EP, respectively.

You may be thinking that from this stance, doing stuff like EO is lol, and that I should just learn M2. I will in due time, but for now, this is my own self-taught way of doing BLD.
So! My memo for edges is lettering, and for corners, numbers substitute.
The letters for the edges denote individual piece targets, not a sticker of a piece (e.g. I would memo the UF edge instead of the UF sticker). The same goes for corners.
I use two buffer pieces: UR for edges, UBL for corners. Considering I use a self-taught Old Pochmann variant, I use set-ups and the T/Y/J-perms for permutation with R-perm for even cycle parity, as would a normal OP user. Additionally, since orientation is involved, I use Sune and Sexy variants for corner orientation, and pure algorithms for edge orientation.
In basic terms, I memo as such:
Visual corner orientation with planning
Visual edge orientation with planning
Lettered edge permutation cycles
Numbered corner permutation cycles
Count amount of corner permutation targets (odd = even cycle parity, even = no parity).

I always keep white on U, green on F while memoing and executing, between algs that is.

The lettering and numbering systems are:
For edges:


Spoiler











White is U, green is F.

UL = A
FL = B
DL = C
BL = D
UB = E
UF = F
DF = G
DB = H
UR = I (buffer)
FR = J
DR = K
BR = L

For corners:


Spoiler










Note: In the picture, there's an x2 rotation.

UBL = 1 (buffer)
UBR = 2
UFL = 3
UFR = 4
DBL = 5
DBR = 6
DFL = 7
DFR = 8

Now since we have the notation system down, let's get into execution:

I use set-ups, TYJ, and pure orientation algorithms, as stated before. Here is the order in which I execute:

CO
CP
EO
EP

It's different than the memo in that CP shifts from last in memo to second executed, reinserting itself between the orientation steps.
For future reference, parity can go virtually after any step after CP (i.e. after CP, EO, or EP).


Let's start with CO execution:
I separate into layers. If I have one of the OCLLs on top, it's quite obvious another OCLL will be on the bottom. The same principle works if a non-OCLL is on top/bottom.
Let's take this example for an OCLL that can be solved with Sune variants:


Spoiler



Scramble: R2 D' R2 U R' F2 U F2 U' R2 D R' U'.

This is an optimal solution for the headlights OCLL case. Using Sune and its variants, I can do (R U2 R' U' R' U' R')(L' U2 L U L' U L) to solve the orientation in a pure fashion.


And then, this other example in which I would execute in two steps:


Spoiler



Scramble: F U D R' D' L D' L D' R D2 L2 U' F.
This one deals with corners UBR, UFL, and DFR.
I’d first notice that the corner in the UBR position needs to be twisted anticlockwise (in the “2” position, I’d call it, for my own commutatortastic reasons to be explained shortly), as does the UFL corner.
I’d group these as follows:
Twist UBR anticlockwise and UFL clockwise, as the pure “bowtie” OCLL, and then, after an x rotation, twist the other two corners in the same way.
Thus, I’d execute:
(R U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R U R' U) [x U’] (R U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R U R' U) [U x’]
The first portion orients the UBR corner as if it were in a bowtie case. Then the last part orients the other two corners, which are actually then put into the bowtie case.

Note: R U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R U R' U is a pure bowtie algorithm.


So basically, group all the oppositely-oriented pieces as pairs and orient. OCLLs make this step nice. So do CO skips for a layer. Maybe two, if you’re lucky. =D

Next comes CP.
After corners are oriented (with U/D stickers on U/D faces), I execute the string of numbers I memo’d.


Spoiler



Scramble: F2 D2 R2 U F2 D F2 D' B2 U' B2 D' R2 F2 U'.
Since I use UBL as a buffer (the “1” corner piece position), I look for the place where the “1” corner needs to go, and in this case, it needs to go to DBR, or the “6” position.
From 6 --> 5,
From 5 --> 2,
From 2 --> 4,
From 4 to buffer.
Since there are corners we haven’t covered yet, I know we’ll need to break into a new cycle.
This first part would be memo’d as 6524.
Since the “3” corner is unsolved, We then add onto “6524”, “3”, to form “65243”.
3 --> 8 --> 7 --> 3.
Thus, “65243873”.
And that’s the memo for corner permutation. This is done last in memo, so it’s easy to recall right after quick CO.
Since this corner orientation string has an even number of targets, this case requires no even cycle parity. Yippee!

Now, to execute:
6: R2 (Y perm) R2
5: D F2 (Y perm) F2 D’
2: U (L perm) U’
4: (Y perm)
3: U2 (J perm) U2
8: D R2 (Y perm) R2 D’
7: F2 (Y perm) F2
3: U2 (J perm) U2

Where Y-perm is the dual OLL, L-perm is (R’ U2 R U R’ U2 L U’ R U L’) or (x U2 r’ U r U2 l’ U R’ U’ l2), and J-perm is T-permish.



Next, EO:
Visualize the disoriented edges. Pair them up to form groups of 2 adjacent, 2 across, and four flip. Use minimal set-ups to avoid room for error.
Adjacent 2-flip: R U R’ U’ r’ U2 R U R U’ R2’ U2 r.
Across 2-flip: M’ U M’ U M’ U M’ U M’ U’ M’ U’ M’ U’ M’ U’.
4-flip: M’ U M’ U M’ U M’ U’ M’ U M’ U M’ U M’ U’.

Next, EP:
This step requires the most recall, the most memo, and the most finger tricks.


Spoiler



Scramble: U2 R2 B2 L2 D B2 U' L D2 U2 R' D B2 L2 D'.
Since UR (the I piece) is buffer, and all edges are oriented, there are only 11 targets for the buffer to go.
In this case, the buffer needs to go from I --> B. 
B --> J --> D --> A --> I.
Since “I” is buffer, we need to break into a new cycle.
Thus:
C --> G --> H --> E --> L --> F --> K --> C.

In all, BJDACGHELFKC.
Or, BJ DAC GHELF KC.
I just remember it by trying to pronounce it, or by coming up with something to memo it with.
I’d say “Bizh dack gelf casey”, and I’d remember BJDACGHELFKC.
Simple as that.

So, I’d execute:
B : L’ (T perm) L
J : d2 L (T perm) L’ d2
D : L (T perm) L’
A : (T perm)
C : L2 (T perm) L2
G : l2 (L perm) l2
H : l2 (J perm) l2
E : (l perm)
L : d2 L’ (T perm) L d2
F : (J perm)
K : D2 L2 (T perm) L2 D2
C : L2 (T perm) L2.


I do believe that is all. Any questions?


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## Sakarie (Oct 2, 2010)

Billbowser said:


> I use a custom letter pair for big cubes center.
> 
> Uface
> Ba Bi
> ...


 
Wouldn't it be smarter to use "better" consonants? H is the worst letter for me, and if I would've known, I would've excluded it from my letters.


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## aronpm (Oct 2, 2010)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> I do believe that is all. Any questions?


 
One question: why are you still using this? It's terrible and I told you months ago to stop using it!


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## Billbowser (Oct 2, 2010)

Sakarie said:


> Wouldn't it be smarter to use "better" consonants? H is the worst letter for me, and if I would've known, I would've excluded it from my letters.


 
And C is a worst letter for me.Thats my first list,a first bad list.


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## Ranzha (Oct 2, 2010)

aronpm said:


> One question: why are you still using this? It's terrible and I told you months ago to stop using it!


 
I haven't learned. Even so, I get 2:30 means of 3 with it, with a 75% success rate over 50 solves.


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## Billbowser (Oct 3, 2010)

aronpm said:


> You shouldn't need to memorize the buffer.


 I use 4 buffer.If my first buffer is solved,I change my buffer to second Buffer.


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## aronpm (Oct 3, 2010)

Billbowser said:


> I use 4 buffer.If my first buffer is solved,I change my buffer to second Buffer.


 
I use floating buffers (all of the U centers) but I don't need to memorize the buffer. I can just make a mental note of what buffer to use for a cycle and when to change.


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## riffz (Oct 3, 2010)

aronpm said:


> I use floating buffers (all of the U centers) but I don't need to memorize the buffer. I can just make a mental note of what buffer to use for a cycle and when to change.


 
I'm no expert on 4BLD, but I just make a mental note of my buffer. After the first I add the new one to my memo, though.


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## Erzz (Oct 3, 2010)

Erzz said:


> I assign a letter to each sticker, then when I memorize I make a story-type-thing. For example, say I got "AFERHDJ..." I could make a story "A french elephant ran home drinking juice" or something. It's easy to remember. I just make two stories, one for edges and one for corners.



Could I apply this to harder puzzles, like 4x4 or megaminx?


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## riffz (Oct 4, 2010)

Erzz said:


> Could I apply this to harder puzzles, like 4x4 or megaminx?


 
Think about it for a second, and I think you can answer that yourself.


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## Andrew Ricci (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm not sure if this has been said or not ( I doubt it) but has anyone played the picnic game? The object of the game is to think of a food to bring to the picnic for each letter of the alphabet, and once you get to z, recite all 26 items in order. I think this method (so called) could translate well to old pochmann corners: each color sticker being a different food of that color, and each corner being a different amount of the certain food. For example: Corner 4, Blue, Corner 6, Red, and Corner 3, Yellow, would translate to: To the picnic I am bringing 4 Blueberries, 6 Bottles of Ketchup, and 3 Bananas. 

Any thoughts?


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## CharlesOBlack (Oct 11, 2010)

theanonymouscuber said:


> I'm not sure if this has been said or not ( I doubt it) but has anyone played the picnic game? The object of the game is to think of a food to bring to the picnic for each letter of the alphabet, and once you get to z, recite all 26 items in order. I think this method (so called) could translate well to old pochmann corners: each color sticker being a different food of that color, and each corner being a different amount of the certain food. For example: Corner 4, Blue, Corner 6, Red, and Corner 3, Yellow, would translate to: To the picnic I am bringing 4 Blueberries, 6 Bottles of Ketchup, and 3 Bananas.
> 
> Any thoughts?


 
I once played that game with three friends... I was the only one that didn't cheat. 

No, I'm not gonna play it again.

on-topic: that sounds like a good idea for fixed centers. (always same way of holding the cube, that is)


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## clarubik (Oct 11, 2010)

I do the algorithms about twenty times then if I need to break it down into sections or make rhymes or songs for them


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## Marcell (Oct 11, 2010)

theanonymouscuber said:


> I'm not sure if this has been said or not ( I doubt it) but has anyone played the picnic game?


 
Not exactly in this form, but I've used to memo corners with types of food. But if you're at it, you might as well find 21 different types instead of using amounts. A chocolate-covered pizza is easier to remember then, say, three pizzas.


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## StachuK1992 (Oct 11, 2010)

Hello,
I'd like to get into the journey method.

On, the wiki page, I am referenced to Memory-Sports.com.
It seems as though this site has been closed.

Does anyone have a good suggestion on a good alternative?

Thanks a lot,
statue


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## Andrew Ricci (Oct 11, 2010)

Marcell said:


> Not exactly in this form, but I've used to memo corners with types of food. But if you're at it, you might as well find 21 different types instead of using amounts. A chocolate-covered pizza is easier to remember then, say, three pizzas.


 
Yes, i tried my method a couple times, and I will definitely switch to this. Numbers and food is just too much.


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## Sakarie (Oct 11, 2010)

StachuK1992 said:


> Hello,
> I'd like to get into the journey method.
> 
> On, the wiki page, I am referenced to Memory-Sports.com.
> ...



Loci/Journey is just half a method, so you still need to convert stickers/numbers into something, and then put them into a journey to remember there order more easily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci


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## riffz (Oct 12, 2010)

StachuK1992 said:


> Hello,
> I'd like to get into the journey method.
> 
> On, the wiki page, I am referenced to Memory-Sports.com.
> ...


 
http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/memorizing.html

Click on 'Letter Pair Images' (although I highly recommend the other method explained there for memorizing at least part of the cube (it's amazingly fast but still accurate and easy to remember))


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## Micael (Oct 23, 2010)

theanonymouscuber said:


> I'm not sure if this has been said or not ( I doubt it) but has anyone played the picnic game? The object of the game is to think of a food to bring to the picnic for each letter of the alphabet, and once you get to z, recite all 26 items in order. I think this method (so called) could translate well to old pochmann corners: each color sticker being a different food of that color, and each corner being a different amount of the certain food. For example: Corner 4, Blue, Corner 6, Red, and Corner 3, Yellow, would translate to: To the picnic I am bringing 4 Blueberries, 6 Bottles of Ketchup, and 3 Bananas.
> 
> Any thoughts?



Hi Andrew,
Your idea would make the memorization challenging, I think. There is too much similarities between each images. Basically, there would be food and amount of them. You will have to memorize many details to make sure you do not confuse things (for multi and big cube, that would simply became a nightmare). For the single-image-per-sticker method, my advice is to take 24 images VERY different from each others. With very distinct images, you only need to remember vaguely one image to recall it, as even if you only remember a tiny part of it, you still cannot get confuse. Also, by wisely chosing the images, you can get some freedom. As an example, if one image is "food", then you can simply pick the one that fit best the situation. Others could be "fire", "Mode of transport", "superhero". These are very flexible. One image I like is Santa Claus, because it is vivid and bright (and distinctive). For best result, do massive use of you imagination to chunk things.

Good luck

Micael


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## Andrew Ricci (Oct 23, 2010)

Micael said:


> Hi Andrew,
> Your idea would make the memorization challenging, I think. There is too much similarities between each images. Basically, there would be food and amount of them. You will have to memorize many details to make sure you do not confuse things (for multi and big cube, that would simply became a nightmare). For the single-image-per-sticker method, my advice is to take 24 images VERY different from each others. With very distinct images, you only need to remember vaguely one image to recall it, as even if you only remember a tiny part of it, you still cannot get confuse. Also, by wisely chosing the images, you can get some freedom. As an example, if one image is "food", then you can simply pick the one that fit best the situation. Others could be "fire", "Mode of transport", "superhero". These are very flexible. One image I like is Santa Claus, because it is vivid and bright (and distinctive). For best result, do massive use of you imagination to chunk things.
> 
> Good luck
> ...


 
Thanks for the advice. I think I'll either:

1.) Switch to 1 distinct food per sticker or
2.) Find some other images besides food

I've already began to try different foods for each sticker, and this has proved much easier than foods and numbers. 

Also, you would only need 21 images, since you can't shoot the buffer to the buffer.


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## Kynit (Oct 23, 2010)

21 images? I think you need 22 for edges, right?


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## Micael (Oct 23, 2010)

Well, I just said 24 because I don't know what exactly you are going to memorize and how.


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## riffz (Oct 24, 2010)

theanonymouscuber said:


> Thanks for the advice. I think I'll either:
> 
> 1.) Switch to 1 distinct food per sticker or
> 2.) Find some other images besides food


 
Do #2. Your picnic method is basically journey but with less distinct images. Tying random images to locations will prove much more effective I think. So <24 images and if you start taking BLD more seriously you can memo 2 pieces per image (~500 images)


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## Sakarie (Oct 24, 2010)

Yeah, and 23 if you're aiming for bigger cubes.


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## Marcell (Oct 24, 2010)

And 24 if you're aiming for bigger cubes but your buffers are different on them.


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## buelercuber (Oct 24, 2010)

what's a method?


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## scylla (Oct 25, 2010)

Are there memory methods especially for multiple blindfold?

Two main reasons why did may differ:
1. In speed blindfold it's important to maximize memory speed(under certain restriction of succes chance), but in multiple blindfold it's important to maximize memorisation success chance (under certain restriction of speed)
2. In multiple blindfold you have also minimize the chance of interference between cubes (which you dont have in speed blindfold)


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## riffz (Oct 25, 2010)

scylla said:


> Are there memory methods especially for multiple blindfold?
> 
> Two main reasons why did may differ:
> 1. In speed blindfold it's important to maximize memory speed(under certain restriction of succes chance), but in multiple blindfold it's important to maximize memorisation success chance (under certain restriction of speed)
> 2. In multiple blindfold you have also minimize the chance of interference between cubes (which you dont have in speed blindfold)


 
Yes. Typically people use Journey or other methods that allow you to memorize more information for longer amounts of time.


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## scylla (Oct 25, 2010)

Im looking for methods which minimize the amount of memorisation. 

By example, I do BFD first orientation, than permutation ( I know, that's for losers  ) 

For orientation of the edges of 1 cube I can memorize it with 1 number between 0 and 2^13-1 (or in 3 numbers between 0 and 2^4-1, to make less calcualations during solve), for orientation of the edges, I can do something similar with a number between 0 and 3^8-1.

when I memorize the number let's say 2313 for edges, I reconstruct that the edges 11,8,3 and 0, are misoriented because 2^11+2^8+2^3+2^0 = 2313.

I thought this out by myself but probably this already exists (like almost all cuberelated things you can invent  )

Now im looking for a reconstruct method for permutations as well, are there any?


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## Stefan (Oct 26, 2010)

scylla said:


> For orientation of the edges of 1 cube I can memorize it with 1 number between 0 and 2^13-1



Not 2^*12*-1?



scylla said:


> Now im looking for a reconstruct method for permutations as well, are there any?


 
There's one here: http://kociemba.org/math/coordlevel.htm


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## Sakarie (Oct 26, 2010)

Actually, you can cut the EO-memo even more, and make it easier, if you pair the binar numbers four and four, and memo them with three hexadecimal numbers. It would make everything much easier to convert too.

You should be aware that no matter how how you convert it, you'll always memo the same amount of information. So if you really want to do 3OP, you could create systems like 142 is a cake, 634 is a baboon, and so on. But just as your system will probably turn out, the converting will probably take more time than doing the "extra" memo.


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## Johan444 (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm using Old Pochmann with T and J perms. First I memorize the edges and then the corners.

I'm using a room in my apartment with 11 different locations to memorize the edges, every edge has two images or objects depending on the orientation. I don't do anything special to memorize new cycles for the edges. I go through the edges once after I've memorized them.

For the corners I memorize A for white and yellow stickers, B for blue and green and C for red and orange. For new cycles I memorize a "." and the order or path is visual, it's easy to remember since I solve them first. So for example a memorized string for corners could be "A . B C C C . A A".

I don't know if the corner method is used by anyone else but it's really nice.

Needless to say this method is kinda slow (for me avg. 4 min per solve), but I find it really safe. :tu


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## scylla (Oct 26, 2010)

> Not 2^12-1?



yeah im sorry



> There's one here: http://kociemba.org/math/coordlevel.htm



thx this is very interesting, difficult to reconstruct, but interesting (I do not know all multples of x! by heart for every x)


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## Faz (Nov 4, 2010)

2, or 4 letters to a location?


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## Tim Major (Nov 4, 2010)

Fit as many as you can. I had all 7 corners on one location a while ago. I don't see why it should be fixed.


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## Zane_C (Nov 4, 2010)

Well, at the moment I can't make events that well. So for me it's 2, I want to switch to 4 soon.


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## riffz (Nov 5, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> 2, or 4 letters to a location?


 
Are you using 2 letters per image? If so I'd say you could easily do 6.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 5, 2010)

riffz said:


> Are you using 2 letters per image? If so I'd say you could easily do 6.


 
I do 6 most of the time - 3 images per location. But for 3x3x3 multi, I just put all edges at one location, and all corners at another location, with flipped edges and twisted corners each getting their own additional locations if needed. So that can be quite many letters at a single location for edges!


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## cmhardw (Nov 5, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> I do 6 most of the time - 3 images per location. But for 3x3x3 multi, I just put all edges at one location, and all corners at another location, with flipped edges and twisted corners each getting their own additional locations if needed. So that can be quite many letters at a single location for edges!


 
Hey Mike,

Just a question from an uninformed MultiBLDer, but why combine them? Why don't you split up the edges into 2 locations to ease the memory load per location, but just utilize more locations? I'm reminded of Boris Konrad who memorizes a deck of cards with one image per card per location, but uses journeys that are 52 locations in length. It seems a sort of hybrid of this would allow you to memorize "normally" with 3 images per locations, and just use specially prepared "multi" journeys that allow you to do this.

Just curious, and just trying to bring it up as a topic of conversation. I'm sure you have reasons for why you prefer to memorize this way.

Chris


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 5, 2010)

I actually started by memorizing as you suggest; I did it that way for the first couple of years. Then, as an experiment, I tried this way, and found I was instantly about a minute per cube faster by doing it this way. It turns out that I have delays between the locations when I split them up, and although this way requires slightly longer to get it memorized (you'd think it would be a lot more, but it's really just a few seconds more), it pays off big (really big) during execution. Making the change to this was one of the biggest improvements I've ever had in multi!

I've often wondered if this means I should do the same for big cubes BLD - switch to something like 6 images per location instead of 3. But I've never really bothered to try. Maybe I'll try next week just to see what it's like, after Dayton.


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## cmhardw (Nov 5, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> ... Then, as an experiment, I tried this way, and found I was instantly about a minute per cube faster by doing it this way...
> 
> I've often wondered if this means I should do the same for big cubes BLD - switch to something like 6 images per location instead of 3...


 
Wow! That's really neat, I would not have expected that! I'm not sure how well it would work for centers, as you would consistently have around a location and a half or so. For wings that could be very neat to always memorize them in 2 locations!

I'll have to try this on 3x3x3. For some reason I have the hardest time with 3x3x3 edges, and the central most edges of the 5x5x5. I feel I should be memorizing them more efficiently than the 2 locations I normally use, and using single syllable words for both corners and edges seems to be just a bit much for the 10 second auditory memory loop for me. I'll have to give this a shot for 3x3x3 edges and see how it goes.

Chris


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## riffz (Nov 5, 2010)

Chris: I've been meaning to ask you... You say that you can't use your auditory system for both edges and corners because it's too much, but have you considered using the auditory for edges and the journey for corners? That way you could store a bit more using your short term memory, and have less to memo using journey, which obviously takes more time. I'd say most of the time corners require 4 or 3 images, so you could always use just one room for the journey part of your memo.


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## cmhardw (Nov 5, 2010)

riffz said:


> Chris: I've been meaning to ask you... You say that you can't use your auditory system for both edges and corners because it's too much, but have you considered using the auditory for edges and the journey for corners?


 
Wow, no to be honest I have never tried that. I can see what you mean, I would usually have between 5 and 7 words for edges which could be said or thought easily within the 10 seconds. I guess I just got so used to practicing my auditory system on the 2x2x2 that I began to associate it with corners. I will certainly try using it for edges on the 3x3x3 in this week's competition to see how it goes. This would mean memorizing the edges last and solving first, when I typically do this for corners, but that would not be a difficult switch to make.

Thanks for the idea!

Chris


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 5, 2010)

I agree - that is an interesting idea! It does seem that auditory for corners has some breathing room - it definitely feels like you can do more than just the corners with auditory - but I agree with Chris that it's too much to do both. But if you could get the edges to work, that would be a potential real improvement! It could make a big difference on regular 3x3x3 BLD.

The only catch now is that it will involve switching to doing edges first instead of corners first. That'll just take some getting used to for 3x3x3, but it's a real problem for me for 5x5x5, since I don't have entirely center-safe algs for those pieces on 5x5x5. Looks like Chris has an advantage on me there.


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## riffz (Nov 6, 2010)

The reason I suggested it is that I do it that way. But I've only started practicing using journey for corners so that's what's really slowing me down right now. One pass edges is so easy using the auditory method. 

Mike: There's no real reason why you should have to change what you do for 5x5. It's a different puzzle and you probably need to optimize your methods for solving it differently than you would 3x3. I'm sure with practice it wouldn't cause any problems, but then again who am I to say?

EDIT: I forgot to mention how much easier it is to solve parity M2 style if you solve edges first as well. Just do U' F2 U M2 U' F2 U in between and then solve your last corner Old Pochmann style. (No R perms!)


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## ilikecubing (Nov 20, 2010)

ok,I am pretty new and inexperienced to blindfold cubing,just wanted to clear sum doubts....i recently learned pochmann method from joel van noort's site and i see dat memorisin edges is a tough job,so what is the most common way of memorising edges which most speedcubers do.

and...r there any other blindfold methods where we hav to memorise less.i know m sounding stupid...so pl fogive me.


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## PalashD (Nov 24, 2010)

I have been having problems with memo. since a long time. I tried the story method. It works good if you want to do one solve per day. Then went to the journey method the association of each peice with its landmark take a long time. In the phonetic method there also the same problem and so with the PAO and other similar systems. Basically I am a very lazy guy. This has been a problem for me. So I tried experimenting and today I thought of an interesting thing (atleast I found it great). When you keep your hand on the 3x3x3 covering each peice with one finger. So you can use the fingers and make a path between them. Or maybe make them do nasty things to each other. I tried it and it seems to be working out nicely. You can extend this to bigger cubes. Just need other parts of your body. I like to call it the postmortem method. 

It is very much like the journey system but with an inbuilt list


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## riffz (Nov 24, 2010)

PalashD said:


> Then went to the journey method the association of each peice with its landmark take a long time.



I think you should just practice more. This guy uses journey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_KlsQxf_UE


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## Cyrus C. (Nov 24, 2010)

Anyone use a method where you link audio with destinations? I listen to CubeCast everyday while doing my Paper Route, whenever I hear Thom or Andrew say something, I flash back to the part of my route I was on where I've heard it before.


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## Kynit (Nov 24, 2010)

I thought about that the other day! I wonder if linking images with parts of a song would work well. I don't think it would be good for something smaller like 3BLD, but I can imagine 4 or 5BLD could benefit from something like this.


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## cubefan4848 (Nov 24, 2010)

Does anyone use a different memory from corners to edges.
I think it would help to tell when to do corners and when you change to edges


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## riffz (Nov 25, 2010)

cubefan4848 said:


> Does anyone use a different memory from corners to edges.
> I think it would help to tell when to do corners and when you change to edges


 
Plenty of people do, including myself.


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## cubefan4848 (Nov 25, 2010)

riffz said:


> Plenty of people do, including myself.


 
Could you please answer my PM then.
And I think I am going to do this then


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## riffz (Nov 25, 2010)

cubefan4848 said:


> Could you please answer my PM then.
> And I think I am going to do this then


 
I will, don't worry. I'm kind of busy tonight, and on the phone currently, but I'll respond to it tomorrow at the latest.


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## RyanReese09 (Dec 3, 2010)

Chrish said:


> I memo visually, and am currently learning M2. My concern at the moment is I don't know when I need to use (for example) the RF setup move instead of the FR setup move. Could anyone offer me a suggestion?


 
I had this problem, i'll explain via old pochmann style but you should be able to adapt
do this on a solved cube (yellow top orange front), L' , tperm, L
notice how the orange sticker is in the buffer position, look at how hte orange is on top, you need to look at the green/orange side now, since orange is the color sticker in the buffer position, you need to make whatever sticker is in the orange side of orange/green, on top ready for hte swap,

So since orange is in hte ubffer, setup in this is as easy as L' tperm, L

you're swapping stickers, not peices, think of it as that, I hope that helped


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## MichaelErskine (Dec 3, 2010)

@Chrish I suggest that you take the time to watch (and understand) badmephisto's blindfold solving video where he describes the swapping of stickers (just reiterating what Ryan said above). This is nicely backed up with Joël van Noort's tutorial on old Pochmann (linked from video)


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## Chrish (Dec 3, 2010)

Ah, didn't notice anyone responded, I deleted my post and didn't look back. I kind of figured out part of my problem but ran into something else. I'll look at the video when I have time later today, thanks both of you for the responds


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## Chrish (Dec 5, 2010)

When I made my first post, I just didn't know which setup move to use to permute the piece in the buffer spot. With experimentation, it was rather easy to figure that out. But now I'm another block, one that I couldn't wrap my head around (I watched Badmephisto's video, and his memo part several times, and another video or two by other people). 

I know what setup move to use to permute the buffer, but I don't know how to memorize what orientation the next piece is going to be, much less the next ~10 pieces.

So as I previously mentioned, I memo visually. But I concluded since there are 2 possible orientations I have to deal with, learning the story method would be beneficial. So I wrote all the possible edge sticker-combinations and assigned each a word. So this is all fine and dandy, but I don't know how to use this to help me.

Could someone share how they use the letter combinations to give them all the info they need to solve it?

For example;

Say the BR piece is in the buffer spot; then after doing the proper swap, I have to swap the UR piece. I don't know if I think ''BR UR'', ''RB UR'', ''BR RU'' or ''RB RU'' I just need help understanding how to use those letters the way they're intended to be used.


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## MichaelErskine (Dec 6, 2010)

Chrish said:


> I know what setup move to use to permute the buffer, but I don't know how to memorize what orientation the next piece is going to be, much less the next ~10 pieces.



I'm assuming you're performing edges with Old Pochmann.

You must use the setup move that will orient the piece correctly: you will want to devise a setup move for each orientation so that the sticker you want to swap will be in the target position.


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## Zane_C (Dec 7, 2010)

I am horrible when it comes to placing multiple pairs in one location. I can usually manage if the location is large, but I usually can't fit more than one pair in a small location (drawer, cupboard etc). I would like to become fluent with this as it will make the memorising and recalling phase easier.
I was also wondering what people do when it comes to ordering images in the one location, so you know which order do execute the pairs in. Thanks.


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## tim (Dec 7, 2010)

Zane_C said:


> I am horrible when it comes to placing multiple pairs in one location. I can usually manage if the location is large, but I usually can't fit more than one pair in a small location (drawer, cupboard etc).



You have to scale them down (or just treat them as toys). A table and a ship fit perfectly on a piece of paper.



Zane_C said:


> I was also wondering what people do when it comes to ordering images in the one location, so you know which order do execute the pairs in. Thanks.



They either use something like Person-Verb-Object/Person-Verb or build mini stories in which they use some kind of convention to remember the order (e.g. the second image is always the one on top).


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## Zane_C (Dec 7, 2010)

Thanks Tim.


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## userman (Dec 7, 2010)

AvGalen said:


> I only just started learning blindfolded (2x2x2 and 3x3x3 only, sofar) using Macky's guide and adjusted numbering and algs to my style.
> 
> For orientation I LEARNED numbers, but I convert them to shapes automatically in my head. Untill I read this post, I didn't know this was called shapes. Also, I don't limit this to triangles
> For corner-permutation, I try to group numbers so they are easier to remember. 1 3 2 4 becomes 13 24 becomes "unlucky 4!"
> ...


I dont even know how to solve a 2x2 blindfolded, but whats up with this memorizing methods? Is it not easier to just use full EG?


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## RyanReese09 (Dec 7, 2010)

I use 2 letters (2 images) per location, and whta I like to do is have the image that comes first in my memo to be the dominant character. Aka if it's killing someone, I'll have, for example, Hitler smashing in Magikarps head with my dresser drawer etc etc, or if it's sexual, I'll have the image that' supposed to be first take charge.


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## ilikecubing (Dec 7, 2010)

How to memorize when using Turbo Edges method,we solve 2 edges at a time using Turbo edges,so I have some big confusions on how the memorization should go like if I use letter pairs? Could someone just help me out with this.pl thanks in advance


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## amostay2004 (Dec 7, 2010)

ilikecubing said:


> How to memorize when using Turbo Edges method,we solve 2 edges at a time using Turbo edges,so I have some big confusions on how the memorization should go like if I use letter pairs? Could someone just help me out with this.pl thanks in advance


 
It's just the same as M2 or Old Pochmann, just setup whatever 2 letters to the U layer and perform the alg


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## Zane_C (Dec 8, 2010)

ilikecubing said:


> How to memorize when using Turbo Edges method,we solve 2 edges at a time using Turbo edges,so I have some big confusions on how the memorization should go like if I use letter pairs? Could someone just help me out with this.pl thanks in advance


So what you want to do is memorise your images in pairs. What I do when there is an odd number or targets; is use the letter of the final target plus its neighbouring sticker on the same piece to generate the image. That way you'll know it's odd, as it's impossible to shoot to two orietations of a piece at the same time. Unless your using conjugates to flip the piece which isn't very efficient.


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## eastamazonantidote (Dec 8, 2010)

When I first started I marked edges by their position (ACube style) then by their orientation ('o' or 'u'). To separate, for corners I had ACube positions and 'h' for oriented corners (h), 'd' for F/B on top corners (depth), and 's' for R/L on top corners (side), so I could always tell by the letter whether it was a corner or edge. I grew out of this by not even giving a number to oriented cubies. Then I started mapping piece movement with numbers for every single sticker (up to 54). Now I don't really know what I do. I just remember the piece movement


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## Kapusta (Dec 18, 2010)

I only just really started learning BLD, but I've been memorizing corners using Pokemon. If the face is facing me, then the Top left corner is a first stage pokemon of that color, the Top right is its next evolution, and the bottom left is the final evolution. The last corner is a legendary pokemon.

I started using this because I was sick of using numbers/letters and forgetting which one went where. With this, I don't really need to memorize the position of a letter; I already know the names of Pokemon, and I can easily see visually where each one is. Before, I was using letters for corners and could only do 5 corners max; now, I can do all of them pretty easily. 

Now, to find a good method for edges...


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## MichaelErskine (Dec 19, 2010)

Kapusta said:


> I only just really started learning BLD, but I've been memorizing corners using Pokemon...
> 
> Now, to find a good method for edges...


 
Well, it seems pretty obvious that you should be using Yu-Gi-Oh duel monsters for edges


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## kinch2002 (Dec 24, 2010)

I can't be bothered to trawl through the thread to see whether my question has been asked before so here goes:

Anyone got any ideas of how to memo a megaminx? I like letter systems, but there are 60 edge and 60 corner stickers on a megaminx so I'm a bit stuck there. I'd rather not use pure visual memo, because dodecahedrons confuse me a bit 

I did a bld-one-piece-at-a-time solve just now, so I know I can do the whole thing now.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm really liking the idea of doing megaminx orient-permute, for both corners and edges. Of course, you have to sort of arbitrarily pick a "correct" orientation; it doesn't matter what it is; it just has to be fixed. At first, it sounds like a really stupid idea, but there are two big advantages:
1. For permutation, you only need 30 "letters" for the edges, and 20 letters for the corners, so it's much more manageable - you can just use the same memo scheme you use for normal cubes, but with 6 extra letters worth of pairs for the edges. I think it will make memo much more manageable.
2. When it comes to solving, you'll have fewer cases to deal with setting up for the next algorithm, since the pieces are already oriented a certain way.

When I've done megaminx BLD in the past, I assigned each face a letter (A-L), and then assigned each sticker on that face a letter (A-E). Then I did face-sticker as a letter pair. So I needed a full letter pair for each piece. So by going to orient-permute, I'll be able to pack permutation two to an image. Orientation I could pack even tighter (perhaps hexadecimal, like I once did years ago for cubes). So the memo should actually be smaller with orient-permute, and hopefully it will be less confusing to encode, decode, and solve.

But I still haven't gotten around to trying orient-permute yet; maybe it won't work well at all. I'm looking forward to finding out. I will probably try it sometime early next year. (For now, I'm still trying to get through the Christmas Competition. )


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## tim (Dec 24, 2010)

kinch2002 said:


> Anyone got any ideas of how to memo a megaminx? I like letter systems, but there are 60 edge and 60 corner stickers on a megaminx so I'm a bit stuck there. I'd rather not use pure visual memo, because dodecahedrons confuse me a bit


 
You could use two letters per piece. So, one letter for the face and the other letter for the piece in that face. I've never thought about solving a megaminx blindfolded, so that's just a rough guess how it might work. I'm pretty sure Mike has already posted how he memorizes a megaminx, btw., but i can't find it right now.

Ninja'ed by Mike


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## aronpm (Dec 24, 2010)

tim said:


> You could use two letters per piece.


 
That's going to make memo much longer than it needs to be


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 24, 2010)

aronpm said:


> That's going to make memo much longer than it needs to be


 
That's how I felt whenever I did it. That's the main reason why I hated doing megaminx BLD so much - I felt so incompetent whenever I did it. So how would (or perhaps do?) you do it?


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## Kynit (Dec 31, 2010)

Can someone explain visual memo to me? How do you guys do it? It seems to have the potential to be very fast, but I have a lot of trouble memorizing more than 4 or 5 corners visually.


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## HelpCube (Jan 2, 2011)

Im using the journey system right now for edges and ive gotten all edges BLD a few times, but cant seem to find anything for corners that I can work with. Im horrible at memorizing letters/numbers. Any help?


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## RyanReese09 (Jan 2, 2011)

Just use lettering for the corners. And sound it out. Such as this memo

JSDMU

Just sound it out (memo corners last and solve them first while you still have it fresh)

I have trouble sounding stuff like that out so I just say "J S D M U" in my head. If the letters form a word then I'll say the word along with the letters. Say the memo was JUGMS. I'd sound out "JUG M S" Jug the word, then M S. Easy.


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## Zane_C (Jan 2, 2011)

HelpCube said:


> Im using the journey system right now for edges and ive gotten all edges BLD a few times, but cant seem to find anything for corners that I can work with. Im horrible at memorizing letters/numbers. Any help?


 
Many people dislike using letters/number, I would recommend you try visual for a while and see if you like it. It might take a while to get used to.


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## minime12358 (Jan 2, 2011)

Currently, I pair letters and think of a word to correspond with it. I generally just "know" when to start corners as opposed to edges. So I letter my edge stickers A-Y (skipping x, it is hard to work with) and I do the same with my corner stickers. So for RUGJNVOENBKS, I would think rug, jane, void, eastsheen, books. When executing, again I sort of just remember thant eastsheen was en not es, etc. I am really not that great so far (just got my first one beggining of winter break) but I am working on it, and this is a really easy way to begin. 


3x3 Bld : 12:32.412 3x3 S:17.321(NL) A: 24.382


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## Tyjet66 (Jan 2, 2011)

I'm still learning Old Pochmann, I have the edges down fine but I can't seem to figure out the corners. For my memo, I use "tapping" as a visual type of memo as I can't really get numbers or letters down. For memorizing corners, how exactly would I use my memory method?


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## Zane_C (Jan 2, 2011)

Tyjet66 said:


> I'm still learning Old Pochmann, I have the edges down fine but I can't seem to figure out the corners. For my memo, I use "tapping" as a visual type of memo as I can't really get numbers or letters down. For memorizing corners, how exactly would I use my memory method?


Continue what you're doing, you'll get faster.


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## Tyjet66 (Jan 2, 2011)

Oh, I'm sure that I'll get faster, but how do I tap to memorize corners? For edges, I start with R sticker on the RU edge and go in that pattern.


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## Zane_C (Jan 2, 2011)

Tyjet66 said:


> Oh, I'm sure that I'll get faster, but how do I tap to memorize corners? For edges, I start with R sticker on the RU edge and go in that pattern


Just keep on tapping through the corners one at a time until you have remembered them all. See if there are patterns which make it visually easier to remember, things like targets which are on the same face, diagonal etc. How much time have you spent experimenting with letters? Depends who the person is but generally they're easier to remember.


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## Tyjet66 (Jan 2, 2011)

I spent a good chunk of time experimenting with lettering pairs and using them in a journey method, I completely failed with that. On the other hand, I worked with tapping for 30 minutes and already had more success. I'll try figuring out a pattern for corners, thank you.


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## Tyjet66 (Jan 4, 2011)

I wasn't sure where I should post this as I didn't think this would be worthy of a new thread.

I'm using full Old Pochmann, I have a question:

For solving edges, you have to use set-up moves that do not disturb the UR edge and URF/URB corners.
So, for solving corners, do you have to use set-up moves that do not disturb the UB/UL edge and the ULB corner?


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## Zane_C (Jan 4, 2011)

Tyjet66 said:


> I wasn't sure where I should post this as I didn't think this would be worthy of a new thread.
> 
> I'm using full Old Pochmann, I have a question:
> 
> ...


 
Yes, that is correct.


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## MichaelErskine (Jan 4, 2011)

Tyjet66 said:


> So, for solving corners, do you have to use set-up moves that do not disturb the UB/UL edge and the ULB corner?



Assuming you are using a Y-Perm and J-Perms to swap out your buffer piece, then yes. Just take some time to understand why the method uses these PLLs and you'll see how the method works and what pieces need to be left undisturbed.


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## CubeLord (Jan 11, 2011)

*Faster Memo*

So im starting to learn M2/Old Pochmann. I want to sub 2 or 1 30 which will take fast memorization. Does anybody have an extremely fast and efficient way of memorizing???????? Also, does anybody know good BLDr's fast memo methods?


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## Tyjet66 (Jan 11, 2011)

I use visual, it takes me 3-5 minutes to memorize (I just started), 2-4 minutes to go over it (I'm a safety whore, I know it lol) and about 4 minutes execution. There major thing is, you need to practice, A LOT, good luck!


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## DennisStrehlau (Jan 11, 2011)

CubeLord said:


> So im starting to learn M2/Old Pochmann. I want to sub 2 or 1 30 which will take fast memorization. Does anybody have an extremely fast and efficient way of memorizing???????? Also, does anybody know good BLDr's fast memo methods?


 
Use images. Every edge hat 2 images and every corner has 3 of course.
I always tell the people: USE IMAGES!
You should do that too or at least try it. I also use it and i can memorize in about 30 seconds (with checking the cube again after memorizing). You always have to practise of course. 

Dennis


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## amostay2004 (Jan 11, 2011)

The key to fast memo (with whatever memo method) is to always rush your memo and not care about DNF-ing too much


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## pappas (Jan 16, 2011)

I came up with this idea the other day. It sort of combines BH corners and 3OP. So you orient all the corners like normal 3OP and then instead of using set up moves and only a few basic cycles, you learn an alg for each cycle. I believe the number of algorithms in 42 sorry if I'm wrong. Then for the memo you assign each algorithm/cycle a number or image and just memorise that. So your memo might be something like 32 4 15. Sorry if this isn't anything new but I thought I might as well share it.


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## That70sShowDude (Jan 19, 2011)

(M2/old pochmann)
Ok, I don't know much about memory methods, other than browsing this thread a little. When I started, I did what came naturally to me. Sometimes I have trouble recalling my memo when trying to go fast. Is this an efficient method for fast singles?:

Each edge sticker has a letter (A through X). I'll memorize the edges in groups of 4. I memorize the group of 4 in really awkward ways. Often, I find myself memo'ing 2 and 2 in that group of 4. Example memo- OWVQ KGMJ AED. For OWVQ, I'd think of Pestvic punching me and me saying, "OW VQ." vq as in vic. KGMJ would be an extremely easy combo to memo as in Kevin Garnett Michael Jordan; 2 great basketball players. Then AED would be a weird way of prouncing AID. This edge memo would actually be very easy for me. 

For corners, I just apply the letter to what face the sticker is on (W, Y, R, G, B, O) and remember the position of that piece. Example could be Y B B R W G O. I would try to memo those letters efficiently like the edges, but also remember their position around the cube.

I believe that I have more issues with corners.


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## Cubenovice (Jan 20, 2011)

@ 70'sDude

Here are some thoughts from a slow cuber

I use mixed tactics:
- Start with edge memo:
- Using words from my letter-pair image list. Remembering them just as words put into one or two sentences, not trying to visualize the "image" or place them in rooms or a journey
- freestyling letters into new words that contain more than two letters:
example HU NS becomes HUNS as in Atilla the HUN
example M B P becomes MoBilePhone 1st letter of each syllable

Then corner memo:
- skip first two corners
- if possible, stringing them up into something "pronouncable" by adding some random vowels in between
- otherwise same as edges 

Your corner example: Y B B R W G OY 
Skip YB remember BeRaWuGo OYster 

Solve starts with corners
YB visual
BeRaWuGo OYster 

In time you will get more comfortable with the visual part and can go to 3, 4 etc visual corners.
Then solve the edges where you have the more solid memo.


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## ilikecubing (Jan 24, 2011)

Can someone give me a short explanation on how are images used for memo.


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## Ordos_Koala (Jan 24, 2011)

you replace every edge or corner by some kind of image... and then you memorize which ones to switch. I'm not very good teacher, but you could try Badmephisto on youtube, he has some vids about BLD and he can explain it well


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## ilikecubing (Jan 24, 2011)

Ordos_Koala said:


> you replace every edge or corner by some kind of image... and then you memorize which ones to switch. I'm not very good teacher, but you could try Badmephisto on youtube, he has some vids about BLD and he can explain it well


 
Can you elaborate please

I have seen badmephisto's video,but his memo method doesn't seem to suit me


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## Ordos_Koala (Jan 24, 2011)

well, I learned only old Pochmann, so i'll stick to it... so bascily you have buffer on RU. it's green-red edge (green on top) so you need to swap these, so you remember either some word with GR (green-red) (like some friend of yours whose name is Greg or GRass, or something like that) and you continue this way, or (if your front side is red, top yellow) RB (right-back) (RoBbery,...) or you can imagine something that has a lot of green and little of red like Christmass tree... as I said, I'm very bad teacher so you should check wiki if you're interested in BLD or ask someone who can do it sub-1 minute... hope it helped thogh (btw there are some people that can mamorize it just by placing fingers on it, but in my opinion, it's really hard)


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## Cubenovice (Jan 24, 2011)

ilikecubing said:


> Can someone give me a short explanation on how are images used for memo.



This guy can probably give you a good explanation, he seems to know quite a lot about BLD solving:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...uestion-thread&p=514709&viewfull=1#post514709


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## ilikecubing (Jan 24, 2011)

Thats what I currently use,I use letters

I was just wondering if images are faster


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## Ordos_Koala (Jan 24, 2011)

on that post you seem to understand it... two weeks ago


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## ilikecubing (Jan 24, 2011)

Thats letters,isn't that different from images?


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## Cubenovice (Jan 24, 2011)

yes and no...

Yes: in case you have an image per sticker (carrot for the *Orang*e-green edge sticker, parrot for the *green*-orange edge sticker)
No: in case you assign a letter to each sticker and assign images / words to all possible letter pairs (DK = duck)

And another great idea: try reading the 53 previous pages of this thread or using the seach function...


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## Ordos_Koala (Jan 24, 2011)

it's much easier to remember images (mostly you remember the funny ones) so it's better to these letters assign words... you can imagine duck and carrot but you can't imagine "BR"... and few people could just like that remember 40 letters (i don't say it's impossible, but surely it's very, very, very hard)


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## MichaelErskine (Jan 24, 2011)

Yes, I find that images stick really well. One well-rehearsed image per colour pair -- except for blue-orange which I recall as "Mystery Object"!!!


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## Cubenovice (Jan 24, 2011)

When I was still using a single image per sticker the *Blue*-orange and *orange* blue were my worst images...
I never got comfortable with them and would mix them up too often.

I am now using letter-pair images. My list is far from complete so I throw in some freestyle words and old images to complete my memo.

My corners:


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## riffz (Jan 26, 2011)

MichaelErskine said:


> except for blue-orange


 
sad tabby cat


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## Cubenovice (Jan 27, 2011)

I would like to know how people typically memo new cycles, twisted-in-place corners and flipped edges, especially for multi BLD.

What I am currently doing:
- Old Pochmann for both edges and corners
- All stickers have their own letters
- I do a story-type memo with letter-pair images (words) and words made up on the fly (as my list is not complete yet).

- For new cycles I memo:
In case of an odd cycle I will include in my story: " 'name' places buffer in next position"
This tells me the last sticker of the cycle and that I need to move the buffer piece.
In case of an even cycle I memo actually the same but will skip the specific person as the last sticker is included in the last letter pair.
I am actually thinking of using one specific person for this case so I can better work it into the story.
I do not really have a code for the buffer's next position, this is done on plain old memory.
The above works just fine for single solves, I do not have too much trouble in recalling where the buffer needs to be stored for the various cycles.

For twisted corners and flipped edges I use visual memo.
Twisted corners I solve via two Y-perms
Flipped edges with a simple edge flipper or two T-perms (depending on set up moves required)
For a single solve this typically works just fine.

Now if I want to progress to multi BLD should I start "encoding" all the cycles, twist and flips into letter pairs?
For a new cycle
NOT memo" 'Kevin' places buffer in next position" (suppose the next location is the edge just straight across: UL which has letter E)
BUT just plain and simple memo the letter pair KE
This way I can just "forget about cycles" and just follow the story and keep shooting to the locations in the story

For twisters and flippers:
NOT visual
BUT just remember a letter pair for each corner and/OR edge.
Drawback for edges would be that this means "T-perm by default" so 4 T-perms instead of one edge-flipper to solve two flipped edges.
(Unless I would "decode" the letter pairs again, for instance when there are not too many flips and there is an easy set up).

Any feedback is appreciated!


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## cmhardw (Jan 28, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> I would like to know how people typically memo new cycles, twisted-in-place corners and flipped edges, especially for multi BLD.



I would also be interested in hearing what others have to say. To be honest I don't really have a system for flipped pieces other than visual. I've been wondering how to incorporate this into a set system using letter pairs somehow for multi as well. My worry right now is that I may confuse the flipped pieces with an actual cycle. I suppose this could be gotten around by always breaking new cycles (so that you never have more than one cycle) and then just remembering the flipped/twisted pieces as a separate chunk from the actual cycle.



Cubenovice said:


> - For new cycles I memo:
> In case of an odd cycle I will include in my story: " 'name' places buffer in next position"
> This tells me the last sticker of the cycle and that I need to move the buffer piece.
> In case of an even cycle I memo actually the same but will skip the specific person as the last sticker is included in the last letter pair.
> ...


 
I feel this is the only part I can comment on. I just always break new cycles until I'm done basically. The reason I like doing this on 3x3x3 is that it makes sure to balance the orientation of all pieces by the end (except for permuted but disoriented pieces).

Basically let's say I had the corner cycle:
(ABCD)(EFGH)

I would memo (A BC D*E* FG H*E*)
Where bolded letters show where I broke the new cycle, and bolded and underlined showed where I close out the cycle.

The key to making this work is to remember where you have broken into a cycle, and once that cycle is complete, you must shoot to that position one last time to close the cycle out.

So if you had the cycle (AB)(CD)(EF)(GH)
I would memo: (A B*C* D*C* *E*F *E**G* H*G*)
Where bolded letters show where I broke the new cycle, and bolded and underlined showed where I close out the cycle.

As to permuted but disoriented pieces, I would say that once you condense your memo such that you always break into new cycles such as to only have one longer cycle memorized, then you could memorize the permuted but disoriented pieces the same way you would memorize a 2nd cycle. But, since you know that the 2nd cycle does not exist, then those pieces must be permuted but disoriented.

I have no idea if this is how others do things, but that is probably how I would do it. Hope this helps.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 28, 2011)

For multiBLD, for new cycles, I break them until I'm done just like Chris describes. Actually, about a year ago I switched for multi to including my entire set of edges in a single location, so I might in a bad case have 7 or 8 images in that single location. I find that despite the greater difficulty in originally memorizing that many images in one location, recall for it is faster that way, which is why I do that. I also include my entire set of corners in a single location. Then, I remember images upside down for pairs of edges that are flipped. If I have a single edge that's flipped, I'll remember my image for the person that goes with that single letter (again, upside down - usually suspended from the ceiling at that location), and then know when I get to it that I need to flip it with the buffer piece. For permutations, I always have a single person who represents my buffer piece (which never changes for a given piece type in a given room) acting on all of the images. So my flipped edges or twisted corners don't get confused because: a. they're upside down, and b. they aren't being acted on by the person. For twisted corners, if they're in pairs (one clockwise and one counterclockwise), I do the same as with flipped edges - I memorize the image for the pair upside down, with the first one needing to go clockwise and the second one needing to go counterclockwise. If I have triplets that need to all go one direction or another, I come up with a word on the spot combining the 3 letters, and place that concocted image on a clock (if they need to go clockwise) or on a kitchen counter (if they need to go counterclockwise). Maybe it's a little silly, but it works for me. Anyway, I put all flipped edges at one location together and all twisted corners at one location together, so I never need more than 4 locations for a 3x3x3. Since all of my rooms have 9 locations, that means I can always fit two 3x3x3s comfortably in a single room.


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## Sakarie (Jan 29, 2011)

But, isn't it so simple so that you have a special image of when FR, UR or DF are flipped? For me, FR is A, and RF is B, so if FR would be flipped, I'd memo AB=Abba. So when Abba is standing in my kitchen, I know FR is flipped.


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## RyanReese09 (Jan 29, 2011)

That's really an interesting approach Mike, here is how I approach multi (note that I'm not nearly as good as you (yet ))

I just use standard roman rooms with 10 locations in each room, 2 images per location in my room, letter pairing gives me 4 letters per location. So basically 3 locations max for edges, 2 for corners, thus 2 cubes per room.

For flipped edges I do the same as you, I just have the image upside down, depending on whether the first letter is flipped in my image, the top half of the image will be upside down (aka a person will be flipped, top half only, if you can imagine that) and if it's the second letter that's flipped, it'll be the bottom half.

If two edges are flipped, and permuted, I just (since I solve edges first) put on the blindfold and do a pure two flip. Haven't really decided what to do if only one is permuted but flipped, probably new cycle (if I'm doing multi)

If regular 3x3x3 BLD then I'll just visually remember that it needs to be flipped

Corners, I know pure twists but I never apply them to corners, due to me being afraid if I'm twisting the incorrect way . Should really start doing the pure twists, it would save me a lot of memo for those situations.


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## Cubenovice (Jan 29, 2011)

Chris, Mike,
thank you for your detailled replies.

Are you sure we are BLDig the same puzzle?
As I am usig Old Pochman my cycles seem to work quite different from yours;-), my cycles "close themselves"

I have now tried a few solves in which I coded breaking into new cycles, flips and twists into regular letter pair images and it works like a charm.
At first it feels a bit weird that you encounter a given letter twice but that is something I can get used to.
This system also makes it easier to check for parity. Previously I had letter pairs, single letters and breaking into new cycles to count and see if I ended up odd or even.
But now everything is in pairs and so I only have to look at the very last letter: paired or single.


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## Krible (Feb 1, 2011)

Hey! I'm kind of new to blindfolding and i havent solved a cube blindfolded successfully yet, but i think i have come up with a new method for memorizing corners and would like to see what you think.

The first step is to assign each sticker of every corner to a physical movement in your body. So for instance, LUF can be assigned with putting your toungue to the left, FUL can be putting your tounge to the right, ULF can be biting your tounge, FRD can be crossring your toes on the right foot ect ect..

Then, when memorizing, let's say the first corner is FRD, then you can just cross your toes or do whatever that corner is assigned to, and remember the rest of the corners visually. When executing you notice that your toes are crossed so you know where the first corner belongs. This way, you can remember one less corner visually, so i think it will be faster.

It would be difficult to remember all the corners with this method because you don't know what order to do them. That's why i think it would be useful to only do it with the first corner and do the rest visually. 

I'm not that good at explaining, but if you understand what I mean, what do you think?


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## LarsN (Feb 1, 2011)

It is possible to use your body to assist your memo. I cross my legs to remember parity.


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## Zane_C (Feb 1, 2011)

Krible said:


> Hey! I'm kind of new to blindfolding and i havent solved a cube blindfolded successfully yet, but i think i have come up with a new method for memorizing corners and would like to see what you think.
> 
> The first step is to assign each sticker of every corner to a physical movement in your body. So for instance, LUF can be assigned with putting your toungue to the left, FUL can be putting your tounge to the right, ULF can be biting your tounge, FRD can be crossring your toes on the right foot ect ect..
> 
> ...


 
One corner isn't all that much different, but it does sound interesting. Definitely give it a shot and see how is works for you.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 1, 2011)

Krible said:


> Then, when memorizing, let's say the first corner is FRD, then you can just cross your toes or do whatever that corner is assigned to, and remember the rest of the corners visually. When executing you notice that your toes are crossed so you know where the first corner belongs. This way, you can remember one less corner visually, so i think it will be faster.
> 
> It would be difficult to remember all the corners with this method because you don't know what order to do them. That's why i think it would be useful to only do it with the first corner and do the rest visually.
> 
> I'm not that good at explaining, but if you understand what I mean, what do you think?


 
Uhm... *especially the first* (few) corner(s) are easy to remember visually so why start with something complicated?
If you really want to use something like this use it for parity or perhaps remembering the locations of flipped edges.


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## Krible (Feb 1, 2011)

Well, you are right one corner isn't that much. But i find that when i have remembered 7 corners and try to remember the last one, then i instantly forget everything. So even if it's just one corner it might help alot, at least for me.


EDIT: I have been thinking a bit about how this method can be used for remembering more than one corner. Maybe this is complicated, but im just brainstorming: To remember two corners you can do more tension in your muscle for the first corner and less for the second. So if the first corner is FRD, then cross your toes very tight. If your second corner is LUF, then put your tounge just slightly to the left. This way you know what order they are because the muscle with more tension is the first one, and the one with less tension is the second one.


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## Zane_C (Feb 1, 2011)

I seem to have missed the little discussion on flipped and twisted pieces in multi. My system probably isn't too good, sorry for the bad explaining:

I have a separate route, away from the cycles. The locations are numbered, i.e. the first location is where I would find any flipped or twisted pieces on the first cube.

Edges:
If I have 1 edge that needs to be flipped (excluding the buffer), I use the 2 letters on that edge to create an image.

Example: If UR is flipped I'll use the letters for UR "C" and RU "F", hence the image is coffin. 

If I have 2 edges which need to be flipped, I'll randomly pick 2 of the 4 letters and make an image.
If the number of flipped edges exceed 2 (Excluding the buffer), more than 1 image is obviously needed. For the flipped edges, the images relate to the sky in some way, i.e. floating, falling, hanging, stuck to the ceiling.

Corners: 
For twisted corners, I memorise the letter of the sticker which needs to face up or down. 

Example: If the corner UFR needs to be twisted clockwise, the upper sticker is at FRU. For me that letter is "I", if there isn't a pair of twisted corners I will use one of the 2 remaining letters on that corner to make an image. The letter of the sticker which needs to face up or down is always in front.
The images for twisted corners are placed on the ground.


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## Sakarie (Feb 2, 2011)

I came up with an idea the other day, and I'm just wondering if anyone uses it, and if it's any good.

It's basically an image method, were you have images for preferably every pair of letters, and the first letters/image DQ/Duck, suddenly transforms into a table/TB, which suddenly gets crushed by Curios George, and so on. (Everything is happening very "sudden", it's meant to be memorized fast, and the "story" is also happening very fast.) When I've done a few tries, I've ALSO put the whole image-chain into a special place, to avoid confusing one chain to the previous one. Anyone uses it?


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## riffz (Feb 2, 2011)

Sakarie said:


> I came up with an idea the other day, and I'm just wondering if anyone uses it, and if it's any good.
> 
> It's basically an image method, were you have images for preferably every pair of letters, and the first letters/image DQ/Duck, suddenly transforms into a table/TB, which suddenly gets crushed by Curios George, and so on. (Everything is happening very "sudden", it's meant to be memorized fast, and the "story" is also happening very fast.) When I've done a few tries, I've ALSO put the whole image-chain into a special place, to avoid confusing one chain to the previous one. Anyone uses it?


 
Isn't that just images/journey?


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## amostay2004 (Feb 3, 2011)

LarsN said:


> It is possible to use your body to assist your memo. I cross my legs to remember parity.


 
I thought about using your legs to remember flipped edges the other day. Not just whether or not there are flipped edges, but also the position. For example:

Floor
----------UL------------------UR


BL---------------FL--FR---------------BR


----------DL------------------DR


And possible have some area in the middle for M slice edges, you get my point. It's effective when having 1 edge flipped, but might be hard with 2 edges, and can't be used for more than 2 edges, but the majority of scrambles have 2 or less flipped edges anyway 

Does anyone use something like this? I personally have not tried it though


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## cmhardw (Feb 3, 2011)

@Using your body to remember things: I used to use a base 5 counting system with my feet to count how many wings I had cycled to


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## RyanReese09 (Feb 3, 2011)

I use my legs to let me know whether the M slice is rotated or not, really don't need it for a single BLD but for multi where I use letter pair images it's helpful.

FOr single 3x3x3 as I finish corner memo, if I have parity I strain my leg to let myself know at the end to do parity :3.


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## Sakarie (Feb 3, 2011)

riffz said:


> Isn't that just images/journey?


 
In my mind, Images/journey is placing 1-3 images on a location, and having a chain of locations. BUt that may be just how I've thought of it.

On "body memory": I once solved corners, with the thought that each (non-thumb) finger is a corner and every part of the finger was an orientation, and than I pinched my fingers. It didn't work.


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## riffz (Feb 3, 2011)

I've been using my feet to assist in memorizing twisted corners. Because I memorize corners first and solve them last, the twisted ones give me trouble.

I angle my foot to the right (CW) or left (CCW). I use my right foot if the corner is on the R face and my left foot if it is on the L face. Obviously this technique is best for only one twisted corner and sometimes two. I'm looking to improve this method by using the angle that my knee is bent at or the position of my foot on the floor, but I haven't decided yet.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 3, 2011)

Over the last week I have found that (if I am not confident in memoing the twists visually) using letter pairs works very well for me.
1st letter is where to pick up the sticker (typically the easiest set up move)
2nd letter is where to put it back


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## riffz (Feb 3, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Over the last week I have found that (if I am not confident in memoing the twists visually) using letter pairs works very well for me.
> 1st letter is where to pick up the sticker (typically the easiest set up move)
> 2nd letter is where to put it back


 
A lot of us use algs that flip the corner instead of shooting to that position twice. It's easy enough to memo a letter pair that indicates the direction the corner must be twisted in, but I'm looking for something faster that won't require an additional image per twisted corner.


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## poller (Feb 3, 2011)

amostay2004 said:


> The key to fast memo (with whatever memo method) is to always rush your memo and not care about DNF-ing too much


 
if i always rushing my memo(at the moment i need 2-4 minutes for memorizing) so leets think about 50-60 seconds.. i will get no succes il think..(dont tested jyet)
but, how is your experience with this.. ? is it getting better after a tonn oft solves(95--100% rate) or is there everytime a low rate?

please tell me some about this


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## Jakube (Feb 3, 2011)

I´ve got a question about memorizing big cubes. 
For the 3x3x3 I use letter-pairs for edges and a visual memo for corners. (Memo ~50 sec)
For 4x4x4 I use the same (also letter-pairs for centers) (Memo ~5 min)

These methods work very well. But when I started BLd 5x5x5 I was not able to solve the cube, because I forgotten so much things, switched pairs, ... (Memo ~40 min!!!, because I had to repead a lot of the things several times.)
I´ve done some trys in the last days, but again with a huge memo time and a DNFs. 

Should I use the Journey method for the 5x5x5, (or even for the 4x4x4) to get a safe memo? (Or is this just practice and practice and practice?)


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## Marcell (Feb 3, 2011)

@poller: Rushing through tons of solves won't improve your accuracy. When practising, take your time, and make sure to get it right. I recommend that you do lots of solves without even timing it at all. Just get comfortable with memoing and execution. Practise, practise, practise. And then later, when timing your solves, you can try rushing memo on some of the scrambles.

@Jakube: Yes, you should look into journey, roman rooms etc. The information you have to memo on a 5x5 is more then what most people can intuitively remember.


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## poller (Feb 3, 2011)

thanks for your tip. il gep you up to date.. see you in 500 solves


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## amostay2004 (Feb 4, 2011)

@poller: You should speed up your memo bit by bit, not going from 2-4 minutes to 50 seconds straight away, because obviously you're gonna DNF most of the time. If it's 2-4 minutes now, try to always make it low 2 minutes, then aim for sub-2, etc. Though at your current speed your slow memo is probably because you're not fully used to memo-ing the cube, or you can't execute braindead yet. At this point you should just get more comfortable with your solves until maybe you can average sub-3 in BLD.
Obviously I wouldn't suggest someone averaging 15mins to just gogo rush memo, I was mainly talking to those averaging in the sub-2 region I guess


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## Narraeson (Feb 6, 2011)

I can't comprehend any of this, can someone simplify? :|


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## Kynit (Feb 6, 2011)

Narraeson said:


> I can't comprehend any of this, can someone simplify? :|


 
Sure thing!


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## RyanReese09 (Feb 6, 2011)

For speed, visual is far greater then roman rooms for single 3x3x3 yes? Even if I use a letter pair list which makes me have to memo less? I imagine me only needing 3 locations tops for edges on single 3x3x3.

Visual still faster?


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## Marcell (Feb 6, 2011)

There's no answer to that, it all depends on one's personal abilities and preference.
I for one can't seem to memo anything purely visually. Thus even roman rooms would be faster than visual, as I would either take a disproportionately long time on the latter, or rush it and then fail.
But using roman rooms on a single 3x3 would most probably slow down someone who is otherwise used to memo visually.
To sum it up: the best memo is what suits you the best, and you have to find out which one that is.
-But roman rooms is usually used for memorising bigger cubes or multi, as most people find that the information one has to remember on a 3x3 is not as much as to require this kind of memo technique.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 7, 2011)

You might as well skip the rooms/locations alltogether for a single solve.
Just work your letter pair images (words) into some sentences without "visualising" the actual image to much. Use the words instead.


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## Julian (Feb 7, 2011)

I was wondering how most people remember flipped edges and twisted corners. I give edges an X, corners that need to be twisted cw an X, and corners that need to be twisted ccw a Z. I'm not sure I want to use my legs or feet to memo this because I cross my legs for parity, and sometimes for difficult letter pairs if the stickers form a pattern on the cube (for example, if I needed to shoot to BR and then to FL, and I couldn't think of a word/image for that, I'd extend my right foot forward, and pull my left foot back, to represent the spots on the cube).

I was wondering how some other BLDers do it


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## cmhardw (Feb 7, 2011)

I make no claims to how effective my method is, but it is what I do.

I only memo these visually, as I have yet to really actually attempt multi (other than some occasional attempts for fun).

For corners I call a corner a "1" corner if I need to rotate it clockwise, and a "2" if I need to rotate it counterclockwise. The number represents how many clockwise twists will return it to solved. I only use these for memorizing groups of 3 corners that twist the same direction. I will tap all 3 corners and then say "1" or "2" for which direction they need to twist.

For a pair of corners that twist in opposite directions I imagine the setup move that will bring them into the same column, then I call that pair an "S" if they appear to twist from inward to outward (UFR rotates counter-clockwise and UBR rotates clockwise would be an "S" pair). I call the pair an "O" pair if they rotate from outwards inwards (UFR rotates clockwise and UBR rotates counter-clockwise would be an "O" pair). The "S" stands for "Same" and the "O" for "Opposite". Look at the U face stickers for each of the examples I listed to see why.

For edges, I just remember the setup moves that bring the edges either adjacent to eachother on the same face, or opposite on the same face. For 4 edges twisted I remember the setup moves that bring them into the shape solved by (M' U)*4 or all onto the same face.

It's probably not the most efficient method out there, but it works well for me on single solves. For multi, I have to be honest that I am still working on that, but there have been a lot of good ideas discussed in this thread recently about this. I'm just trying to find what works best for me.


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## collinbxyz (Feb 13, 2011)

I don't know what to call some things like WB and WG for the story method. Help? (Those aren't the only ones)


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## cmhardw (Feb 13, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> I don't know what to call some things like WB and WG for the story method. Help? (Those aren't the only ones)


 
I use WB=Web and imagine a giant spider web (like 8-10 feet across).
WG=Wig for me, and I picture a judge in the British legal system, wearing a wig.

If you're just using words, then I use the same words for my sounds list too.


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## collinbxyz (Feb 13, 2011)

cmhardw said:


> I use WB=Web and imagine a giant spider web (like 8-10 feet across).
> WG=Wig for me, and I picture a judge in the British legal system, wearing a wig.
> 
> If you're just using words, then I use the same words for my sounds list too.


 
Okay, thx I got the idea. I am thinking about making a list of all the possible words I can make. I am new to BLD and haven't even gotten my first solve...but I understand everything else, just don't want to be in the middle of my first solve and don't know what to call (for example) OG.


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## collinbxyz (Feb 13, 2011)

Here is my list of my post ^ above.

White - 

*WG*-*W*i*G*
*WB*-*W*e*B*
*WR*-*W*o*R*m
*WO*-*W**O*w

Yellow -

*YO*-*YO*yo
*YR*-*Y*ea*R*
*YB*-*Y*a*B*a(I don't know, just one of those words...)
*YG*-*YG*nite (ignite)

Green -

*GO*-*GO*or or *GO*blin
*GR*-*GR*ass
*GY*-*G*u*Y*
*GW*-*G*e*W*(Goo)

Blue -

*BW*-*B*o*W*
*BY*-*BY*g (big)
*BR*-*BR*rick
*BO*-*BO*ss

Red -

*RW*-*R*o*W*e (Hessler)
*RY*-*R*a*Y* (light)
*RG*-*R*i*G*
*RB*-*R*a*B*ie(s)

Orange -

*OW*-*OW*ch (ouch)
*OY*-*OY*l (oil)
*OB*-*OB*i wan kenobi (star wars)
*OG*-b*OG*

For the ones with question marks, I still need to find out...


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## cmhardw (Feb 13, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> *WR*-*W*orld *R*ecord


 
I strongly recommend you change this to only 1 word, like "WoRd" or "WoRn" or "WoRm".

Using 2 words when most of your other words are only 1 word will mean that shooting to WR will be a "bad" or "slow" target to memorize. Just a suggestion of course, I but I strongly believe that it will allow you to memorize much more quickly on average. In fact, I recommend to make ALL of your target names only 1 word, no matter what. So, for Obi wan Kenobi just say "Obi", implying you're on a first name basis with Mr. Kenobi


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## collinbxyz (Feb 13, 2011)

cmhardw said:


> I strongly recommend you change this to only 1 word, like "WoRd" or "WoRn" or "WoRm".
> 
> Using 2 words when most of your other words are only 1 word will mean that shooting to WR will be a "bad" or "slow" target to memorize. Just a suggestion of course, I but I strongly believe that it will allow you to memorize much more quickly on average. In fact, I recommend to make ALL of your target names only 1 word, no matter what. So, for Obi wan Kenobie just say "Obi", implying you're on a first name basis with Mr. Kenobi


 
fixed


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## collinbxyz (Feb 13, 2011)

Ideas for *BW RW YB*???


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## ben1996123 (Feb 13, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Ideas for *BW* RW YB???



Imagine me. I'm too awesome.


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## cmhardw (Feb 13, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Ideas for *BW RW YB*???


 
BW = BoWl, BoW (the verb to bow down), BoWie (David Bowie), BoWser (zomg!)
RW = RoWe (Hessler), RoW (a rowboat), RaW (raw meat), ReWind
YB = YaBa (Yabba Dabba Dooooo!!!), YoB (the book of Job, but mispronounced), YooB ("You better!" said waaaay to quickly and abbreviated - this only works in the south  ), YoBo (like a hobo yo-yo, a yo-yo for hobos. It sounds mean, but it's memorable in that evil funny sort of way)


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## Cubenovice (Feb 13, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Here is my list of my post ^ above.
> 
> White -
> 
> ...


 
I see that you are trying to find a word for every sticker, using the starting letters of the colors to make your words.
In choosing your words (especially if you want to progress to using letter pair images which gives a list of 500+ words) I reccommend to stick to certain "rules" for your words.
These could be:
single syllable words: the target letters are the first and last letter BR = BeeR instead of BRick
two syllable words: the target letters are the first letters of the two syllables YG = YoGi (bear)
three or more syllables : the target letters are the first two letters of the word WO = WOnderfull

When I was still using a single word per sticker I had a different approach which made it very easy form me to recall the colors of the piece.
I based my words on the actual colors of the pieces.
for the green orange edge:
green sticker: parrot (green bird with a little bit of orange)
orange sticer: carrot (orange with a little green)

You should also know that in the single word /image per sticker you have to deal with a very long memo.
But if you can pull it off you will see a huge improvement once you switch over to letter pair images.


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## JyH (Feb 21, 2011)

Old Pochmann for Corners
M2 for edges

Each sticker on each edge is assigned a letter, starting with A, ending with X.
Memorizing edges is easy. I memorize in groups of 4, for example, "COWJ" I memorize as "Cow-J, or Cow-Jeffrey".
It makes the groups of 4 easy to turn into "pronouncable" words. The other great thing is it's very east to tell when the centers are flipped when you have an edge in the memo that has to go in the middle layer. For flipped edges, I just remember by tapping the edge, then when I'm done with everything, I try to remember if I had any flipped edges, and flip them accordingly.

Corners are annoying. Rather than assigning the corners A-H, and turning the corner memo into 2 letter groups, such as BB, I use taps. When you are a beginner, it takes longer than you'd think to get used to it, since there's no memo in your head, you're just going by muscle memory. I never have to think about the sequence of the letters in the corner memo because the tapping just goes along with it. While memoing the corners, and when I'm done, I count the Y-Perms for parity, and memorize any corners that need to be flipped. I usually do this in the beginning. I'm pretty slow at memo, but I hope I can get faster =P.


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## toastman (Feb 22, 2011)

Here's a new one that's currently working for me, may not work for you. 

Background - Old Pochmann, current memo method is Person-Verb-Object using letter pairs (so, you get groups of six). Trick is, *At the end of your edge memo, if you have an edge to flip, how do you remember to "flip" it and not to "solve" it?* I don't like adding another letter in a normal sense, in case I do the wrong thing. So I came up with the following.

Think of a letter (i.e. a sticker) on the edge you need to flip (either sticker will do).

Imagine the person in your final image, doing whatever else their doing, with a frying pan in one hand, flipping (or saute-ing, or stir-frying). Whatever he's cooking, that's the piece you need to flip. Here's a sample list.



Spoiler



A Asparagus
B (Burger without bun) or bird.
C Crepes
D Dog (a dog. Yup a dog)
E Eggs (like a fried egg)
F Fish
G Greens (green vegetables)
H Hamburgers (including the bun)
I Ice (cubes... or that blue naughty stuff that Heisenberg makes)
J Jellybeans
K Kidney
L Lobster
M Mince 
N Noodles (like Pad Thai or something)
O Onions
P Pancakes
Q (Ch) - Chips (U.S. French Fries) or - 
R Rice (Like a wok full of fried rice)
S Sandwich / Steak
T Turtle (Yes, a turtle)
U Underpants (someone frying a pair of underpants in a frying pan)
V Veges (like a stir-fry)
W Wok
X (Sh) Sh*t (a cow-pat)



Notes
1) Yes, I know, I really only need half this list (as we're flipping pieces, not stickers).
2) I do a similar thing for corners and "brute-force" the direction of twist. Seems to work so far.
3) As it's "image" memo, I'm OK differentiating pancakes/crepes and burger (no bun)/hamburger(with bun).
4) I back this up with "sort of just remembering what needs to be flipped".

Anyway, as I said, it's currently working for me (because I cook a lot). This may or may not be useful long term. I plan to do lots of MultiBLD, so, might come in handy. And it doesn't need to be food either. Some dude with a frying pan with a cat in it? Yeah, you'll likely recall that OK. Use whatever you want.
Example:
HSKOCU-P

"Homer-Simpson-Knocks-Out-Cow-Udder-Flip-Pancake"
Picture Homer Simpson wearing shorts and boxing gloves giving a big knockout punch to a cow udder with one hand, and in the other hand, he has a skillet, flipping a pancake.
Means, solve stickers H-S-K-O-C-U and flip sticker P (which is BR or RB, but remember "P" so you don't undo the wrong set-up move and DNF by like 3 GODDAMN moves ARRGHGHGHGHGHGH DAMNIT! STUPID BLD! ARGHGHG!)

If you have 2 or more edges to flip, then, hey, come up with something and throw that in the pan too ~

Anyway, it works for me.

Now I'm hungry. Damn it.


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## Faz (Feb 22, 2011)

Hmm, looks interesting. But if you're going to attempt more than 5 cubes for multiBLD, I suggest using a separate route for flipped pieces, with the first location being the first cube, and so on. This way, you won't have to worry about running into lots of flipped pieces.

For example, if corner GHI needed to be twisted clockwise, and edge L needed to be flipped, simply memorize someone *L*icking an *IC*e cream in a location.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 22, 2011)

For multi I was thinking about just using an additional letter pair image to my story for "single" twists / flips.
Using Old Pochman so buffer doesn't count.

Corner GHI clockwise could be GuHong, HIndenburg or IGuana
Flipped edge L could be LeeK or KoaLa

For two or more flipped edges I think a specific location or action would be best indeed.
This could be the lightswitch (flips too...) or indeed the pan flipping thing or when the specifice letter pair would be a person imagine him/her doing a salto.
L and G flipped: LeGo on the lightswitch
M and J flipped: Michael Jackson performing some flips (or being stir fried...)


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## toastman (Feb 22, 2011)

fazrulz said:


> Hmm, looks interesting. But if you're going to attempt more than 5 cubes for multiBLD, I suggest using a separate route for flipped pieces, with the first location being the first cube, and so on. This way, you won't have to worry about running into lots of flipped pieces.
> 
> For example, if corner GHI needed to be twisted clockwise, and edge L needed to be flipped, simply memorize someone *L*icking an *IC*e cream in a location.


 
Damn you're good!


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## d4m4s74 (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm not able to solve a full cube BLD yet but I am practicing, and for flipping corners I just remember the same piece in another position twice

for example, the right bottom back corner is twisted counter clockwise I place the piece in the buffer there (putting the edge to twist in the buffer) and replace it correctly oriented. which I remember as FB FD (I use the first and last letter of a word so I'd remember that as Ferb Farted)


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## aronpm (Feb 22, 2011)

fazrulz said:


> Hmm, looks interesting. But if you're going to attempt more than 5 cubes for multiBLD, I suggest using a separate route for flipped pieces, with the first location being the first cube, and so on. This way, you won't have to worry about running into lots of flipped pieces.
> 
> For example, if corner GHI needed to be twisted clockwise, and edge L needed to be flipped, simply memorize someone *L*icking an *IC*e cream in a location.


 
I don't like this method.

Say I need to flip UR and BL. The letters for UR and RU are S+W, and my letters for BL+LB are P+L. So I remember the letters SW PL after the rest of my edges on that cube. If I've got the URF corner that needs to go clockwise, then the white sticker is on FUR and my letter for that is C. The letter for URF (the oriented sticker) is S so I memorize the letters CS with my corners. Easy peasy. If I don't like that word for the corner I'll twist both stickers clockwise and remember SV (V is RFU) or VC.

Vastly superior to my try-to-remember-everything-that-is-flipped-visually method that I used at Australian Nationals 2010 and got 1/10.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 22, 2011)

aronpm said:


> Say I need to flip UR and BL. The letters for UR and RU are S+W, and my letters for BL+LB are P+L. So I remember the letters SW PL after the rest of my edges on that cube.



I don't like this method.

Why not remember one of the following codes SP, SL, WP, WL, PW, PS, LW or LS?
There is no need for four letters, two letters is enough to show which edges you need.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 22, 2011)

I remember all flipped edges as images upside down (usually suspended from the ceiling above the location) at a single location, choosing whichever letter is convenient on the piece. For corners, I memorize them in clockwise-counterclockwise pairs, with the top or bottom sticker from the clockwise piece as the first letter in the letter pair and the top or bottom sticker from the counterclockwise piece as the second piece in the letter pair. If I happen to have a triplet of clockwise or counterclockwise pieces, I make up an image on the fly for the three letters, and place it either on a clock (for clockwise) or on a kitchen counter (for counterclockwise).


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## aronpm (Feb 22, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> I don't like this method.
> 
> Why not remember one of the following codes SP, SL, WP, WL, PW, PS, LW or LS?
> There is no need for four letters, two letters is enough to show which edges you need.


 
Because S and P are on different edges so that could be interpreted as a 3cycle. Basically I think multi memo should be brain-dead, with no thinking required to tell if something is two flipped edges or a cycle*. That way, when you get to execution, if you think that SP was a cycle, rather than 2 flipped edges, then you DNF. With my way, that won't happen because you can't accidentally do that cycle.

_*Also if you've got an odd number of flipped edges outside your buffer then you have to memorize an odd number of letters. _


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## riffz (Feb 23, 2011)

Mike Hughey said:


> I remember all flipped edges as images upside down (usually suspended from the ceiling above the location) at a single location, choosing whichever letter is convenient on the piece. For corners, I memorize them in clockwise-counterclockwise pairs, with the top or bottom sticker from the clockwise piece as the first letter in the letter pair and the top or bottom sticker from the counterclockwise piece as the second piece in the letter pair. If I happen to have a triplet of clockwise or counterclockwise pieces, I make up an image on the fly for the three letters, and place it either on a clock (for clockwise) or on a kitchen counter (for counterclockwise).


 
I really like the upside down idea. Why don't you use this, Aron? It definitely allows you to compress the memo more.


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## aronpm (Feb 23, 2011)

I've got plenty of spare room in my routes anyway so it doesn't matter much. But, I'm not really into descriptive modifiers like that since my multi memo is more like sentences.


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## riffz (Feb 23, 2011)

aronpm said:


> I've got plenty of spare room in my routes anyway so it doesn't matter much. But, I'm not really into descriptive modifiers like that since my multi memo is more like sentences.


 
Ah, right. Sentences.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 23, 2011)

aronpm said:


> Because S and P are on different edges so that could be interpreted as a 3cycle. Basically I think multi memo should be brain-dead, with no thinking required to tell if something is two flipped edges or a cycle*. That way, when you get to execution, if you think that SP was a cycle, rather than 2 flipped edges, then you DNF. With my way, that won't happen because you can't accidentally do that cycle.
> 
> _*Also if you've got an odd number of flipped edges outside your buffer then you have to memorize an odd number of letters. _



Good point! I will consider it when going for multi.


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## RTh (Apr 10, 2011)

I've been having some problems with my memory method for BLD.

First of all, I have very good memory (seriously). 

The system I've been using was assigning words to cubies, plus a number for orientation. It's been working so far, but it takes me about a minute to memo, which for me is way too much.

So, I want to try a different method, but I don't really know which. I'm looking for a fast memo method, or at least knowing which method the top 5 BLD cubers use, so I can get an idea of what I should be using.

Thanks in advance =]


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## aronpm (Apr 10, 2011)

IMO a very fast method (which I use) is letter pairs to make a sentence for edges and then just letter pairs to make sounds for corners.


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## sa11297 (Apr 10, 2011)

I know how to solve a 3x3 bld, and I tap the piece for memo. I was starting to use sentences of words that represent each piece but that didnt work. Is there anything that may be good for me? I have considered memorizing a 24 letters for each slot for edges (12 x 2 = 24) and the same for corners (8 x 3 = 24) Then I would have to memorize around twenty letters. 12 edges + 8 corners. Does anyone do this? Is it good?


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## Rpotts (Apr 10, 2011)

lots of people do something similar to what you suggested. Yes it can be very good. What I and many other cubers do is use letters for edges and visual for corners.

First memo your edges, which should come to a ~12 letter string which you can turn into words or sounds or sentences or whatever. Then memo corners visually, some like to tap the stickers, some say the letter corresponding to the face aloud (i.e. D for DFR.) Then solve corners using the shorter term visual memo, then edges with the longer lasting letters. This means you only need to memorize the locations of edges with their corresponding letters. Works for me.


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## RyanReese09 (Apr 10, 2011)

aronpm said:


> IMO a very fast method (which I use) is letter pairs to make a sentence for edges and then just letter pairs to make sounds for corners.


 
I'm by no means a person who can do memo fast (30-40 seconds or higher if bad scramble) but I do have to fully agree that this is amazing. Using letter pairs to make a sentence, it only ends up being like 5 or 6 or 7 real words long (real words being the letter pair words, not stupid words like articles). And auditory makes it so you have free memo, and you just say the letters fast and it sticks in your head.

<3 it.


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## RTh (Apr 10, 2011)

aronpm said:


> IMO a very fast method (which I use) is letter pairs to make a sentence for edges and then just letter pairs to make sounds for corners.



Really interesting. Could you give an example of your letter pairs?


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## aronpm (Apr 10, 2011)

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...ing-Discussion&p=544227&viewfull=1#post544227


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## RTh (Apr 10, 2011)

aronpm said:


> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...ing-Discussion&p=544227&viewfull=1#post544227



Great thanks!

Also, is this corner scheme a good letter pairing? http://www.praktijkborn.net/misc/BLD corners.jpg

Edit: Anyway, I like how you memo. Seems rather easy. If you don't mind I'm gonna copy a few of your letter pairs =]


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## Cubenovice (Apr 10, 2011)

RTh said:


> Also, is this corner scheme a good letter pairing? http://www.praktijkborn.net/misc/BLD corners.jpg



Yes! 
If you hold the cube in the same orientation as I do: green in front, yellow on top.
Old Pochman so the "A" is my buffer sticker.

EDIT: offcourse this is just a letter scheme, the "letter pairing" is what you do in your memo.


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## Jakube (Apr 13, 2011)

I´ve got some questions about Roman Rooms. 
I want to start learning Roman Rooms for Multi- and Big- BLD. 

1) How many locations should there in each room? 
2) Do you use one Letter Pair each location, or more?
3) How many cubes should I put in each room?


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## RyanReese09 (Apr 13, 2011)

Try for 10 locations. I have 8 objects placed around the room (bed, dresser, etc), then floor/ceiling.
I don't know what others do, but I place two letter pairs per location (interacting. The one I execute first is the dominant figure). I think some people group all the edges in one location, all the corners in another, etc. 
Depending on how you group, 1 or 2. I do 1 because I find it faster for me in multi and less cramped (I put 2 pairs per location, thus leading to cramping). If you group all edges and corners in one location (two separate locations I mean, but group the same ones together) then you could do 2.


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## RTh (Apr 15, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Yes!
> If you hold the cube in the same orientation as I do: green in front, yellow on top.
> Old Pochman so the "A" is my buffer sticker.
> 
> EDIT: offcourse this is just a letter scheme, the "letter pairing" is what you do in your memo.



Is it necessary to study and know by heart the letter pairs? 

Also, I used that scheme but in my own strange way xD Using V as buffer.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 15, 2011)

RTh said:


> Is it necessary to study and know by heart the letter pairs?



Not necessary but it is definitely a BIG plus if you know them all by heart.
You can make up words “on the fly” but this takes longer and can lead to errors.
One could say that using a fixed set of words speeds up the “encrypting” and “decoding” of the info.

I do not know my full list by heart (yet) and I can clearly feel the difference (in both speed and accuracy) between fixed words and words I have to make up during memo.



RTh said:


> Also, I used that scheme but in my own strange way xD Using V as buffer.


You shoot from DFL?

Or do you shoot from UBL as in regular Old Pochmann and just have your cube oriented with V on UBL? (white up, blue in front)

The idea behind my corner lettering image is showing my lettering scheme for the cube oriented as I solve it:
Yellow on top, green in front.
Label the pieces clockwise around the corners, starting from my buffer piece UBL, then clockwise around the cube.


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## RTh (Apr 15, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Not necessary but it is definitely a BIG plus if you know them all by heart.
> You can make up words “on the fly” but this takes longer and can lead to errors.
> One could say that using a fixed set of words speeds up the “encrypting” and “decoding” of the info.
> 
> ...



Yes I did orient the cube with V on UBL, but changed the letters. That's the mistake I made. At least I didn't start memorizing with that scheme yet. I'm going to change it to a more suiting one
I like solving with the cube oriented with green on top, orange front and yellow right.


But, the think that I don't really understand is how you memo different cycles. If there are 2 cycles for your corners, how do you memo that change?

Also, what scheme do you use for the edges?

I'm going to memo with sentences for edges and sounds for corners, as Aron does. But I'm not sure how he builds his sentences =/


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## Selkie (Apr 20, 2011)

I am still creating my letter pair list so am still using my PAO system. One thing I have done recently is change the Person element. Instead of famous people I have started using occupations, e.g. Acupuncturist, Butcher, Clairvoyant.. I have felt there is promising results. Using the interactions associated with each of these 'jobs' and they way they interact with the journey locations and actions and objects seems to stick more.

Damn I wish my execution would catch up with memory


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## Micael (Apr 25, 2011)

Selkie said:


> I am still creating my letter pair list so am still using my PAO system. One thing I have done recently is change the Person element. Instead of famous people I have started using occupations, e.g. Acupuncturist, Butcher, Clairvoyant.. I have felt there is promising results. Using the interactions associated with each of these 'jobs' and they way they interact with the journey locations and actions and objects seems to stick more.
> 
> Damn I wish my execution would catch up with memory



Do you mean you memorize faster then you execute? Is this for a single cube (in that case it is commun) or big cube/lot of cubes?


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## Selkie (Apr 26, 2011)

Micael said:


> Do you mean you memorize faster then you execute? Is this for a single cube (in that case it is commun) or big cube/lot of cubes?



Memory does not seem to be an issue but I have had issues with execution. Forgetting setup, messing up an algorithm, fingers slipping. My first 3x3 sucess was only about a month ago and I have only had a handful of sucesses since. My brain and attitude has almost convinced me that BLD is my jinx cubing discipline so all my BLD solves are infected with self doubt. I realise that practice and sucesses will only go to improve my self confidence.

I feel I have the memory method and ability to multi but I do not feel it is worth attempting it until I have got some BLD confidence. It seems kind of pointless trying a 2, 3 or 4 multi when I may remember all correctly but get 0/4 because of silly execution mistakes.

Meanwhile my brain thinks overtime of ways to improve the memory when that really isn't my stumbling block.

Hope that explains somewhat  .. I know I just need to practice BLD more and have a 'plan' to that practice and the confidence will come.


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## jorgeskm (Jun 19, 2011)

I have thought a method for memo, but I don't know if will be good.
For edges I want to use letters pairs (building words ). And for corners I want to memorise 2 commutators visual and the rest with monosyllables (for examples ba,fe,ci,da,...)

I want to memorise *sub20*, Can I be sub 20 with this method?


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## riffz (Jun 19, 2011)

jorgeskm said:


> I have thought a method for memo, but I don't know if will be good.
> For edges I want to use letters pairs (building words ). And for corners I want to memorise 2 commutators visual and the rest with monosyllables (for examples ba,fe,ci,da,...)
> 
> I want to memorise *sub20*, Can I be sub 20 with this method?


 
Absolutely.


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## fastcubesolver (Jun 24, 2011)

visual, occasional numbering for harder cases, cycle method.


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## RussianWhiteBoi (Aug 18, 2011)

Hi

I have a question concerning the journey method. I've been trying to use it, but find that if I do a lot of solves in a row I tend to confuse a past solve with my current one. Does anyone have this problem? Do I need to use different routes, or what?


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## RyanReese09 (Aug 18, 2011)

Yes, you should try and use different routes for different solves.

Though it's only 3BLD, it's not that much information. You could try just making sentences if you desire (audio the corners too)

I used to use images for 3bld, and it was slow and bad. Sentences edges and audio corners worked very nicely for me.


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## sa11297 (Aug 18, 2011)

what method is considered the fastest? i currently use visual (tapping) and i would like to switch now if i will ever need to.


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## RyanReese09 (Aug 18, 2011)

There is no "fastest" memo method. It's whatever works for you. There are people who use visual and are very fast.


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## sa11297 (Aug 18, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> There is no "fastest" memo method. It's whatever works for you. There are people who use visual and are very fast.


 
well I mean gow for 3x3 fridrich doesn't have to be the fastest but it pretty much is. so what is the "fridrich" of bld memo? (if that made sense)


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## RyanReese09 (Aug 18, 2011)

I understand what you mean. But really there is no "fridrich"...I guess you could consider sentences edges and audio corners to be extremely fast (aron uses it). But the WR holder uses pure audio. Ville uses a combination of visual and other stuff to memo. Haiyan uses some sort of letting thing. I tried asking on IRC what he uses but that was the best response I got.

I personally recommend sentences edges and audio corners. It's nice.


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## JonnyWhoopes (Aug 18, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> I personally recommend sentences edges and audio corners. It's nice.


 
On the go sentences, or predetermined by letter pair lists?


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## RyanReese09 (Aug 18, 2011)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> On the go sentences, or predetermined by letter pair lists?


 
Predetermined letter pairs. It's a huge list I had to learn, but I <3 BLD so I did it.

It's nice though because you never have that fear that you can't think of something good.


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## sa11297 (Aug 18, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> Predetermined letter pairs. It's a huge list I had to learn, but I <3 BLD so I did it.
> 
> It's nice though because you never have that fear that you can't think of something good.


 for the sentences and audio corners... you are going to have to explain. I have read a little about different methods involving sentences but I am not sure which one this is. for audio i am completely in the dark.


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## RyanReese09 (Aug 18, 2011)

Basically you give a letter to all the edges (and all the corners since audio) of the cube.

You basically just memo the stickers of your memo (if you use visual, it's the same as the sticker tapping, just memo the letter though associated).

So your edge memo could be. CHJPMIOLVR

You'd turn that into a sentence. Most would just use one long sentence. I'm nub and make a sentence per 4 letters. So my memo is

Chris Hardwick punching JigglyPuff
Milk being poured over Olives
Velocoraptor jerkin off (spelling)

Audio is sorta the same, just letter all the corner stickers. When you get the lettesr, make sounds out of them (CH would be CHHHHHH, that sound). Your brain has something called the 10 second auditory loop. It helps with conversations. You can remember the last sounds you heard for 10 seconds, it helps when you have a conversation. You don't have to work at it and everyone has it (I should really do proper audio, (random comment)).

Just say the sounds real fast, and put on blindfold and solve fast. As long as you memo sub10 and solve (I keep repeating the sounds to make it stick) you'll never forget them.


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## sa11297 (Aug 18, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> Basically you give a letter to all the edges (and all the corners since audio) of the cube.
> 
> You basically just memo the stickers of your memo (if you use visual, it's the same as the sticker tapping, just memo the letter though associated).
> 
> ...


 
intersting... the problem is with the sentence making I get stuck sometimes and cant think of anything. maybe it comes with practice. I will try that audio thing. sounds cool. (get it)


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## RussianWhiteBoi (Aug 18, 2011)

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

I'm going to try the audio loop thing. Any suggested letter scheme? (I do O/P seperately so no need for 24 letters) Also, would you recommend using the same letters for corners as edges?

thanks


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## sa11297 (Aug 18, 2011)

RussianWhiteBoi said:


> Ok, thanks for clarifying.
> 
> I'm going to try the audio loop thing. Any suggested letter scheme? (I do O/P seperately so no need for 24 letters) Also, would you recommend using the same letters for corners as edges?
> 
> thanks


http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Speffz


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## RyanReese09 (Aug 18, 2011)

sa11297 said:


> intersting... the problem is with the sentence making I get stuck sometimes and cant think of anything. maybe it comes with practice. I will try that audio thing. sounds cool. (get it)


 
My sentences always involve some sexual or violent act. That's what it should be. Given that, just come up with a few scenarios. My letter pairs are almost all objects. Works nicely. It'll come with practice.


RussianWhiteBoi said:


> Ok, thanks for clarifying.
> 
> I'm going to try the audio loop thing. Any suggested letter scheme? (I do O/P seperately so no need for 24 letters) Also, would you recommend using the same letters for corners as edges?
> 
> thanks


 If you use A-X for edges, use A-X for corners. So yes.


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## clifford2704 (Sep 15, 2011)

ugh so confused


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## Cubenovice (Sep 15, 2011)

clifford2704 said:


> ugh so confused



Yes, it can be. But eventually you *will* see the light.

Nice to see that you are actually reading through this stuff.
If you are just starting out in BLD you may want to start with an "easy" memo system.


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## collinbxyz (Sep 15, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Yes, it can be. But eventually you *will* see the light.
> 
> Nice to see that you are actually reading through this stuff.
> If you are just starting out in BLD you may want to start with an "easy" memo system.


 
For example...?


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## Cubenovice (Sep 15, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> For example...?



Copied from one of my posts in another BLD thread:

A "simple" way to get started without having to prepare 500+ images is the following:
Prepare a list with the 24 possible color combinations and attach an image to each of them.

Base the images on the actual colors of the pieces, the target sticker bing the predominant color in the image
orange - green = carrot this is the orange sticker on the orange-green edge (orange vegetable with some green loaf)
green - orange = parrot this is the green stacker on the same edge (green bird with an orange beak)

You can use the same images for your corners (make sure to read them all clockwise)
carrot: this is the orange sticker on the orange-green-yellow corner
parrot: this is the green sticker on the green-orange-white corner

24 images is all you need ;-)

BUT!!!
In this single-image system the actual story you have to memorise during the solve is twice as long as in the letter-pair method

This is a way to quickly set up a scheme for practicing BLD, in the mean time you can work on the 500+ list for letter-pairs. 

Offcourse you can read "images" as "words".
Just make a story featuring the words.

This is what I used when I started BLD and it got me my first successes.
Some more images:
*white*-green: my bathroom (mostly white tiles, some green)
*green*-white: flowers (mostly green, some white)
You get the idea.

Easy because:
Short list of words
No need to assign (and remember) a number or letter scheme to your stickers; the words contain the color info

Now I use letter-pair images. Each sticker has its own letter.
I made a list with ~ 700 words for all possible letter-pair combinations. (for some letter pairs I have multiple words).
I go through (and edit) my list occasionally in the Anki flashcard program.


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## riffz (Sep 15, 2011)

Don't use colours. Use a lettering scheme. You can still use one image per letter.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 15, 2011)

riffz said:


> Don't use colours. Use a lettering scheme. You can still use one image per letter.



Can you elaborate why not to use colors?
Remembering the lettering scheme is an additional step and this was intended as an "easy" memo method afterall.


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## MrSpike (Sep 15, 2011)

My memorization method is very much "off the cusp" per solve. However I follow a set of guidelines. I label each position on the edges as a letter A-X including the buffer position (therefore I can keep reference wven when changing methods.)
Regularly I use Person action object on a normal solve, however some cases I come across allow me to condense more.
For example I got - H K O L, I would think Harold and Kumar (the film) Open a lift. Condensing a single letter, sometimes it is more. Just whatever kinda tips off your memory. ]
Corners is tapping + visual.


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## RyanReese09 (Sep 15, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Can you elaborate why not to use colors?
> Remembering the lettering scheme is an additional step and this was intended as an "easy" memo method afterall.


 
It will be much more use later. And a memo system with letters is very easy.


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## Sillas (Sep 15, 2011)

Ryan Reese, what method u use for BLD and Multi-BLD? I'm thinking of learning 3op corners and M2 edges..


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## RyanReese09 (Sep 15, 2011)

For BLD/Multi I used to use M2/OP
Currently it is M2/BH
Soon it will be basically full BH.

I don't do multi anymore, ever since early August.

For single BLD, M2/3OP is good, but if you were to start advancing into multi, then I'd go with M2/OP, that way you don't have to memorize the orientation AND permutation, as in 3OP. It's easier.

If you understand comms, I'd try and use them in solves. Though they will be more DNF prone starting out (not to mention slow.)


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## CRO (Sep 17, 2011)

Is anyone using tapping for memo?

Like, tapping edges, and audio corners or something..

What do you think about it?


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## Ezy Ryder (Sep 17, 2011)

I use tapping for corners, but I don't get too good times with this method.


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## Sakarie (Sep 19, 2011)

CRO said:


> Is anyone using tapping for memo?
> 
> Like, tapping edges, and audio corners or something..
> 
> What do you think about it?



Isn't tapping just an addition to visual memo?


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## RyanReese09 (Sep 19, 2011)

Yes it is.


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## asportking (Sep 19, 2011)

I never really used tapping, it seems like I could never really memorize things efficiently that way. Of course, I've never actually had a successful bld solve, so maybe I shouldn't be talking, but that's my opinion.


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## NeedReality (Sep 19, 2011)

CRO said:


> Is anyone using tapping for memo?
> 
> Like, tapping edges, and audio corners or something..
> 
> What do you think about it?


 
I use letters for edges, and I used to use tapping for corners. As I have done more BLD solves, the tapping has turned into more of a visual + sometimes a "Top" or "Back" to remember the proper orientation if they are changing constantly from one corner to the other. I still use my fingers to touch the piece that I'm memoing a lot of the time, but I don't actual use that in my memorization, just as a way to make sure I don't miss corners.


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## collinbxyz (Sep 19, 2011)

I am still wondering what an easy beginners memo method is. I can easily do the execution for OP, but not sure about memo. I'm also a little confused with M2 atm, so Im gonna stick with OP until I get memo down well enough. I tried vizual, and tapping for it, and it is pretty good for me (never tried whole cube), but I dont think I would be able to do it for the whole cube. Maybe corners only?


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## riffz (Sep 20, 2011)

Give your cube a lettering scheme and construct sentences on the fly. It's very fast and easy to improvise, even without a word list.


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## Zane_C (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm having difficulty discussing this, I apologies. 

While reviewing memo during a multi or big cube BLD attempt, it's inevitable that I will get stuck on an image that I simply can't recall.
What I do is focus hard and attempt to recall the image without looking at the cube. If I still can't recall the image after ~5 seconds I look at the cube to 'jog my memory'.
I've always been under the assumption that memo will set in more if you're able to recall the memo without looking at the cube while reviewing. 

Here's an example leading onto the questions at the end:

_Prior to donning the blindfold, you're in the final memo review stage of a particular BLD attempt. However, you are stopped because you can't recall a certain image/sentence/word/sound/piece etc._

*Solution 1:* You focus, after about 5-10 seconds of thinking you recall the information.
*Solution 2:* You immediately decide to take a look at the cube to 'jog your memory'.

@BLD cubers, based on your memo review experiences, my questions are:

-Do you find that the information is easier to recall during execution if you go with Solution 1?
-Or do you find that it makes no difference to go with Solution 2? (Also, you get the benefit of not have to stall for 5-10 seconds).

Hopefully that wasn't too messy.


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## Marcell (Sep 29, 2011)

For multi with a great number of cubes I would always do the first (that is, concentrating till I can recall the image). Looking at the cube and trying to put some words in my memory once again doesn't assure me in any way that I will be able to recall this particular fragment while solving the cubes - there are so many things in my head already! I'd much rather force myself to remember the way I memorised the first time. It's like a path that I have to go along, and if I find my way once (that is, I can remember how did I come up with an image here, what the hell happened around these words etc.), I'll find my way next time as well.
But that's just me. And that's only multi - on single cubes where there's significantly less information to store and I'm in a bigger hurry, I'd just check the cube again.


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## Selkie (Sep 30, 2011)

Well having had a few BLD sucesses a few months ago but all BLD attempts were plagued with bad memo, missing cycles, execution errors and then eventually plagued by low confidence. I got very frustrated. However I really enjoy BLD and it is an event I do want to get better at.

I used to use a Person/Action/Object based memo and on looking into my failures it seemed I was getting confused with 3 letters per image, not sure why, probably just me.

I have adapted my memo to include another letter per image and added 'profession or job' so now I have Person/Profession/Action/Object. The profession may be how they are dressed in the image or the nature of the profession interact with the image in some way. Early indication, just memorising letter sequences seems much better.

Proof positive will be in the solves, which I will gradually start again now but I do not want to become despondant again with BLD and would prefer to take it slowly. Just thought some may want to know about the adaptation of the PAO system.


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## Julian (Oct 1, 2011)

Selkie said:


> Well having had a few BLD sucesses a few months ago but all BLD attempts were plagued with bad memo, missing cycles, execution errors and then eventually plagued by low confidence. I got very frustrated. However I really enjoy BLD and it is an event I do want to get better at.
> 
> I used to use a Person/Action/Object based memo and on looking into my failures it seemed I was getting confused with 3 letters per image, not sure why, probably just me.
> 
> ...


I have thought about doing something similar, in adding another part to PAO, to bring it to an even number of parts. I thought about PAOS: Person/Action/Object/Setting, where setting is kind of a location within the location. I thought about setting up P, A, O and S for each letter of the alphabet, and then having a PAOS image for each 4 letters.

For example, I could have Michael Jackson/moonwalking/with a white glove/on a stage. Or Michael Phelps/swimming/in a Speedo/in a pool.

I never did do this, though, and instead, I'm now composing a letter pair list.

Just a thought


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## Sakarie (Oct 1, 2011)

Julian said:


> I have thought about doing something similar, in adding another part to PAO, to bring it to an even number of parts. I thought about PAOS: Person/Action/Object/Setting, where setting is kind of a location within the location. I thought about setting up P, A, O and S for each letter of the alphabet, and then having a PAOS image for each 4 letters.
> 
> For example, I could have Michael Jackson/moonwalking/with a white glove/on a stage. Or Michael Phelps/swimming/in a Speedo/in a pool.
> 
> ...


 
Just remember that "Michael Jackson/moonwalking/with a white glove/on a stage" is easy to remember, because it REALLY fits together, and the odds of getting anything that fits this good is probably 1/(20x18x16) assuming you actually have all of these things, and NOT on the same sticker. "Michael Phelps, playing pinball, with a white glove, in a sauna" may be harder to remember. 

Not saying it's a bad idea, but it will be a lot of info on every location.


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## Julian (Oct 1, 2011)

Sakarie said:


> Just remember that "Michael Jackson/moonwalking/with a white glove/on a stage" is easy to remember, because it REALLY fits together, and the odds of getting anything that fits this good is probably 1/(20x18x16) assuming you actually have all of these things, and NOT on the same sticker. "Michael Phelps, playing pinball, with a white glove, in a sauna" may be harder to remember.
> 
> Not saying it's a bad idea, but it will be a lot of info on every location.


No, all those things would be for the same sticker, and one of them would be used per solve. So you would get images like 'Michael Jackson is kicking a Rubik's Cube on a table.' Maybe something else would work better than setting.

Isn't this how PAO systems work?


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## 4. (Oct 14, 2011)

Hello, I'm learning Old Pochmann atm and trying to choose a memory method that will work for me. I figured I have to make it myself since English isn't my native language and I figure I'd rather remember something if it was in my language. I've mainly been looking at the story method. I'm going to give each cubie a 2 letter name (f.x. YG for yellow green). My main concern is that in Icelandic, Yellow and Green both start with the same letter (Gulur, Grænn) and I was wondering, what should I do? Keep the colour names in English and choose an Icelandic word for each cubie? I would also appreciate it if you would post a list of what you call the cubies if you use story method, just to see what kind of words people generally choose.


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## Cubenovice (Oct 14, 2011)

If you want to use letters for memo you should appy a lettering scheme to your cube.

You do not give letters to a *cubie*, you give a single letter to each *sticker*.
Look up "spefs" in the wiki for an example of a lettering scheme.
24 letters is all you need so you can skip the 2 letters of the alphabet that are the most difficult to find words with.

With a lettering scheme you can still do different things for the actual memo:
- remember letters just as they are(hard)
example memo for 6 edges: C W L O M S 

- make a letter-word list: assign a word to each letter (easy list but many words to remember during a solve)
example memo for 6 edges: Cola Wombat Lion Oil Man Ship
As a story: I feed Cola to a Wombat and a Lion while sailing on the Oil Man's Ship 

- make a letter-pair list: assign a word to every possible letter-pair (500+ word list but you only have to remember half the number of words vs the previous memo)
example memo for 6 edges: CoW LoO MosS
As a story: a CoW on the LoO is eating MosS
See? a letter-pair list cuts the length of your story in half  only three words to remember instead of six.
Most of my words are objects, some are locations and people. This allows for a lot of variations in interaction between my words. The actual actions are never stickers so I cannot get confused.


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## Schmidt (Oct 14, 2011)

4. said:


> aábdðeéfghiíjklmnoóprstuúvxyýþæö



So that's why there are no zebras in/on Iceland.

So far I have only done 2x2x2 BLD, using WBO as DLB and me, my wife and our 4 sons eating fruits and icecream, and "the bad one(RYG)" that makes 8 total.
The few times I have tried 3x3x3 I just try to remember "this goes there and that has to go there" for edges, but that is way to difficult.


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## Cubenovice (Oct 14, 2011)

4. said:


> I think you accidentally wrote memo for 8 edges instead of 6 btw.


THX I fixed it.

Initially I had 8 edges but I couldn't find nice letter image pairs for 7-8 
My own list is in Dutch and I wanted an example which is correct in English 



4. said:


> Hehe, the Icelandic alphabet has 32 letters  (aábdðeéfghiíjklmnoóprstuúvxyýþæö)
> Should I start with the letter-word list and then move on to the letter-pair list or should I dive into the latter right away?


32  I figured something like this would be the case when I wrote it.

You can start with both 
While constructing the big list you can fill in the "blanks" with words that denote a single sticker.
This will get you started and as you get more comfortable with the longer list your memo story will just get shorter>

Take care not to use words in the 24 list that you want to put in the large list or you might get confused


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## Cubenovice (Oct 14, 2011)

4. said:


> Anyway, I stumbled upon this method for the corners and thought it was pretty interesting. Do you have any experience with this?



Nope...
I have always used words or letters for specific stickers which works perfectly for Old Pochmann.


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## Escher (Oct 23, 2011)

Current corners audio memo system I'm messing about with:

U layer corners are given a 'soft' consonant - l, r, w (UFL, UFR, UBR)
D layer corners are given a plosive consonant - k, t, d, b (DFR, DBR, DFL, DBL) (Some other order might be marginally better but meh)

Sounds are then made by adding a vowel modifier at the end - a, o and i. 'A' for oriented corners, 'I' for oriented left/right, and 'O' for oriented front/back. Not too sure whether this can be better revised either (by using different vowel sounds).

Example:
D U L2 D B2 U' F2 R2 U' F2 U F D2 R2 D2 R2 F' U B2 U'

DaLa KiTo Ra (visually memo/tap buffer flipped) WaBo (fix parity & flip corners)

Seems like a pretty decent way to go about memorising, you can end up with some pretty funny word combinations for an english speaker, and it's easily recitable. Very easy to learn too...


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## toastman (Oct 25, 2011)

Hey guys,

I've recently been having quite a few problems with the "end" part of my memo recall in 3BLD. Was wondering if anyone could give me some tips.

I do everything as letter-pairs. First I memo edges (with "images"), then corners with an audio-loop, solve corners then solve edges. Trouble is, when I get to the last couple of edge pieces, I have a really really hard time recalling them. Say my edge memo is:

ABCD EFGH IJK

I have a word-list prepared, so this would be:
1) An Abacus with the beads as CDs
2) An EFt terminal being used by a GHost
3) InJecting a Kite.

That's 3 images. I've tried
- "Putting each in a place" like I think Zane does and
- "Associating each with a character / person" like Chester does (this works for me quite well).

Both these methods work generally, but no matter how many times I go over and over the memo, I have a *lot* of trouble remembering the last "image" or last piece of the memo. First 2 images - fine, no problems. That last bit... If I'm lucky it'll come to me after a gap. Far too often - fail (or ragequit), sometimes after 2-3 minutes. If I'm desperate, I'll trace the solved pieces with my fingers and see "what's left over". Sometimes that works, sometimes not.

The first 8 letters / 2 images, no problems. That last bit - Nadgers!

The Annoying bit when I attempt 2-3 cube multi-blds, I don't seem to have this problem. Mainly because I "refresh" my memo quite a few times.

So, any advice on how to overcome this? Apart from "Practice"?

For the record, I average ~5 minutes using Old Pochmann, broken down:
- 80 seconds memo edges
- 40 seconds memo corners
- 2-3 minute solves (My TPS is not good).

(TL;DR - I can't seem to remember the last 2-3 letters of my edge memo).


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## Cool Frog (Oct 25, 2011)

toastman said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
do a Multi BLD, that helped my times quite a bit and made memorization much easier, (with just one or two going through memo again)
or a larger cube blind. 
after i did a 3/3 MBLD with my normal memo it seems like a walk in the park.

Also spend as much time as you need to recall the memo, don't just give up. you memorized it it is in there somewhere.

Hope that helps.


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## Zane_C (Oct 25, 2011)

@toast

It's really good that you've got a prepared list of letter-pairs images, that way you always have an image at the ready for any letter combination. 
It seems to me that you need to spend more time reviewing the edges before you don the blindfold. Make sure you can recall all your images with ease before beginning execution. 

One thing you can do to make the images more memorable; is add emphasise to the images. 
Go into detail with the images and sounds present at your imaginary situation. So essentially; create a memo that gives you the feeling of actually standing there.


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## hic0057 (Oct 30, 2011)

I'm starting practice multiblind for MCD and I'm wondering how people remember flipped pieces and when to transits from edge execution to corner execution to edge execution etc? Also how people deal with parity?


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## blakedacuber (Oct 30, 2011)

hic0057 said:


> I'm starting practice multiblind for MCD and I'm wondering how people remember flipped pieces and when to transits from edge execution to corner execution to edge execution etc? Also how people deal with parity?


 
if your doing old pochmann for a fliped edge i just tap the edge repeatedly for a few secs until i know where it is for a twisted corner i put my hand over the corner and turn my hand clockwise or ccw depending on which way it sould be turned


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## Stefan (Oct 30, 2011)

blakedacuber said:


> if your doing old pochmann for a fliped edge i just tap the edge repeatedly for a few secs until i know where it is for a twisted corner i put my hand over the corner and turn my hand clockwise or ccw depending on which way it sould be turned


 
For how many cubes can you do that?


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## RyanReese09 (Oct 30, 2011)

Back when I was into big multi I would have 10 locations in each roman room. 8 for all corners and edges, one for twisted corners (middle of floor) and then ceiling for flipped edges. 
For knowing where to transitioh, I would put an imaginary barrier from one location to another, or if I need to put it between the two images then I make it seem as if those two can't get to each other. You get the picture. Just split it off. Probably not the best way though but it worked for me. I can give better detail later if you want me to go into something more specific. On phone currently.


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## Zane_C (Oct 30, 2011)

hic0057 said:


> I'm starting practice multiblind for MCD and I'm wondering how people remember flipped pieces and when to transits from edge execution to corner execution to edge execution etc? Also how people deal with parity?


For the memorising of flipped twisted pieces:
Memorise the letter of the edge that needs to be flipped. Or the sticker of the corner that needs to be twisted to the top or bottom face.

Examples:
*Edges:* With my letter scheme DF sticker is W and FR sticker is N. 
So if DF (W) and FR (N) needed to be flipped, I would imagine either a WiNdow or Nuclear Waste.

If only DF (W) needed to be flipped, I would use FD (S) as the other letter: So W + S = WalruS.

*Corners:*
Work pretty much the same as edges. If FRU needed to be twisted so that the FRU (I) sticker went to UFR (A), I would imagine diamonds.

---------------------------------

*Parity:* Edges executed first is easy.
Solve the edges normally, but solve the last edge with a Z-perm by setting it up to UR. (Thus, swapping UB and UL)

-If UB is the last edge target: y' cw U-perm.
-If UL is the last edge target: y' cww U-perm
-If LU is the last edge target: Lw' U' L U M U' L' U L
-If BU is the last edge target: L U L' U' M' U' L' U Lw

Finally, solve an odd number of corners with OP/Y-perm. 
This is exactly how I deal with parity in multi, I only do the last corner with OP though.


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## riffz (Oct 31, 2011)

zomg I didn't know Zane still solves parity M2/OP style like me 

Cept I use DF buffer so instead of Z perm I use some special algs like M' U M' U' M U M U' for DF->BD, etc.


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## Ickenicke (Nov 1, 2011)

Which is the best memo method for the 3x3 cube?

I do not understand how to memorize the whole cube. 
What is a good memo method?


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## Penguino138 (Jan 14, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> Which is the best memo method for the 3x3 cube?
> 
> I do not understand how to memorize the whole cube.
> What is a good memo method?



Try using words that are easy to remember. For example, when I memorize edges, I use a mix of animals, verbs, and innapropriate words to easily memorize.

EXAMPLE: (I did these yesterday) JDSE turns into: Jackals do Sexual Exersizes. 
OTHER EXAMPLES: PDEW turns into - Penguins do Everything Weird

As for when I have to break into a new cycle, I'm a bit unconventional. If I wanted to swap the buffer with V, I would say to myself: "Swap V" as part of my memo. For corners I just use tapping and saying color letters. BTW I use M2 and Old Pochmann. 

Bottom line is you have to use words that work for you and know where each go very well. It takes a lot of practice.


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## pdilla (Jan 14, 2012)

I use a memory palace, not only for cubing, but also for general long term / short term memorizing in my daily life. On the first floor of my palace, is my cube house (I'm using my old house where I lived back in '08) in which I use for BLD solves.

Edge pieces are memorized by color and correspond to a particular character or item; aka white/green = Peter Griffin, green/white = Philadelphia Eagles, etc.
Corner pieces are memorized by phonetics corresponding to another character; RWB = Rowboat, BOY = Boy. etc.

I just place the particular characters in certain locked positions, in order, in my house and then just walk through my house on a set path. Each character usually somehow interacting with the environment (on my computer, soiling the carpet, checking what sin the fridge, etc.) or interacting with the person/thing that comes after it (Spiderman [red-blue] telling Peter Griffin [white-green] that "Everybody gets one.")

To break into a new cycle, I take out my red spray can that I carry around the house and spray paint the proper x, y', z2, etc required of me at that time on the wall/window/TV/etc. , then the next character in line, say, Colin Mochrie [orange-white], reprimands me for it, or inspects the damage done.


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## Cubenovice (Jan 14, 2012)

LOL 

Ickenicke has already mastered 3x3 BLD since that post


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## Ickenicke (Jan 14, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> LOL
> 
> Ickenicke has already mastered 3x3 BLD since that post



Yes, I have! And I will soon learn a more advanced method!


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## pdilla (Jan 15, 2012)

Sweet!


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## Cheese11 (Jan 15, 2012)

My friend and I are using Pokemon and their attacks


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## Krible (Jan 17, 2012)

Can some pro who uses audio-loops for corners (like aronpm) please explain exactly how they do it?


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## Zane_C (Jan 18, 2012)

Krible said:


> Can some pro who uses audio-loops for corners (like aronpm) please explain exactly how they do it?


The wiki has a detailed section explaining audio pairs.


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## verdito (Jan 18, 2012)

i have an object or word related to each sticker of the cube... i say that is colour pairs because i use some things like green-white-red = TACO (because the taco is from MEXICO and have that colours in his flag  ) but i'm not sure.. what method is that?


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## Zane_C (Jan 18, 2012)

verdito said:


> i have an object or word related to each sticker of the cube... i say that is colour pairs because i use some things like green-white-red = TACO (because the taco is from MEXICO and have that colours in his flag  ) but i'm not sure.. what method is that?


Yes, that method sounds like colour pairs.


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## Krible (Jan 18, 2012)

So I need to prepare a letter pair list first?

And another question: Let's say I have remembered something like *Fo*e *R*o*D* *Ge*e *L*e*R*. When executing, how do I know which letters are bold?


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## Cubenovice (Jan 18, 2012)

Krible said:


> So I need to prepare a letter pair list first?
> 
> And another question: Let's say I have remembered something like *Fo*e *R*o*D* *Ge*e *L*e*R*. When executing, how do I know which letters are bold?



Not persé...

One approach to "knowing" is applying certain rules:
If the word ends on a consonant the bold letters are the first and last letter
If not: the bold letters are the first two

fits your example


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## Zane_C (Jan 18, 2012)

Krible said:


> So I need to prepare a letter pair list first?


Not necessarily, the beauty of audio-loop memo is it often doesn't need to be coherent. Incoherent sounds don't require a pre-memorised list since they're easy to make on the spot.


> Methods for forming monosyllable sounds:
> *If the letter-pair consists of 2 consonants, place a vowel in-between as a filler. (Example: TN = tin)
> *If the letter-pair consists of at least 1 vowel, say the letter pair how it would sound as if it was a word. (Example: BU = Boo, AE = "Eh")
> *Have a pre-memorised list of audio pairs, similar to a letter-pair image list.


If you are planning on using proper words to perhaps form sentences, a list could be of benefit. (Like Chris has done) 



Krible said:


> And another question: Let's say I have remembered something like *Fo*e *R*o*D* *Ge*e *L*e*R*. When executing, how do I know which letters are bold?


Once you're familiar with the system for attaining sounds, it'll be very obvious which letters are the actual targets. If you have 2 letters that are both vowels, you might need to make a mental note of what letters are involved (and/or the order the letters appear in).

F and O are the targets in "Foe", because when you say "Foe" you only hear the 'F' and the 'O'.
R and D are the targets in "Rod", because they are the consonants at the front and back.
G and E are the targets in "Gee", because they are the only letters you can hear.
L and R are the targets in "Ler", because they are the consonants at the front and back.

This probably is confusing, but after you've put this system to practice it'll come clear.


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## Krible (Jan 18, 2012)

Thanks Zane!

Do you have any tips on how I should make a letter scheme for corners? Should I just make it in alphabetic order like ULB = "A", URB = "B" ect?


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## aronpm (Jan 18, 2012)

Krible said:


> Thanks Zane!
> 
> Do you have any tips on how I should make a letter scheme for corners? Should I just make it in alphabetic order like ULB = "A", URB = "B" ect?


 
If you already have a letter scheme for edges, look at [wiki]Speffz[/wiki] and see how it relates corner letters to edge letters. If you don't have one, you can learn Speffz


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## ASH (Jan 18, 2012)

I had an idea a couple of weeks ago:
If you use loci method and have only a few paths "prepared" why not reusing useless information you already know.

So I started to scatter loci-"check points" on Counterstrike maps. 
Works perfectly fine for me and will work with every arbitrary game maps/levels you played a lot. 

Makes you instantly dozens of paths available. 

Just a hint, you may simply ignore my post.


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## nickvu2 (Jan 19, 2012)

How do you all distinguish between C and K in audio?


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## Zane_C (Jan 19, 2012)

nickvu2 said:


> How do you all distinguish between C and K in audio?


If this is a big problem, you can remove K and replace it with a different letter that isn't already included in your lettering scheme. By doing this you will eliminate similar sounding letters.

It's rare for me to encounter this issue, usually I 'just know' whether it's C or K. Even though audio isn't directly related to visual memo, it's still very possible to visually recall tiny bits of information (after all, you did look at the cycles in the place). You may find that you are able to visually remember just enough to distinguish the difference between C and K.


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## Kyle™ (Jan 19, 2012)

Krible said:


> Thanks Zane!
> 
> Do you have any tips on how I should make a letter scheme for corners? Should I just make it in alphabetic order like ULB = "A", URB = "B" ect?


 
If you use UBL as your buffer, then you can try my basic scheme. ABCD on the U face, and EFGH on the L face, and follow the scheme around the cube...F-> R-> B->D.
This way your buffer will have A/E/R on it, meaning you can use those letters as much as you want in sentences and never worry about which letters to focus on since they never need to be solved.
For example : Corner memo : ONCPLC // *Onc*e *Pl*a*c*e. Ignore a's and e's when executing every time. Zane and aron are much more educated on the subject, but that's how I do it!


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## Alcher (Jun 7, 2012)

How to memorize the corners, if the edges I memorize audio ?


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## Ickathu (Jun 7, 2012)

Try using letter pair images with a lettering scheme such as Speffz.


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## Alcher (Jun 7, 2012)

Any variants ?


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## nickvu2 (Jun 7, 2012)

Alcher said:


> Any variants ?


some do visual


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## Martial (Sep 1, 2012)

For those who have a memorization around 10-15sec : Do you repeat your memo (particurarily the edges) during the solve of corners ? My memo is pretty fast and in one time, but when i finish solve of the corners, I have often forgotten the memo of edges, so how can I remember of it ?

edit : I use letter pair words, and a series of letters/numbers for corners


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## Petro Leum (Sep 1, 2012)

ASH said:


> I had an idea a couple of weeks ago:
> If you use loci method and have only a few paths "prepared" why not reusing useless information you already know.
> 
> So I started to scatter loci-"check points" on Counterstrike maps.
> ...



i did this with locations from the mmorpg Runescape. Worked pretty nicely, but i havent enough use for loci method since i cant do big cubes BLD and need too long for MBLD


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## Noahaha (Sep 1, 2012)

Martial said:


> For those who have a memorization around 10-15sec : Do you repeat your memo (particurarily the edges) during the solve of corners ? My memo is pretty fast and in one time, but when i finish solve of the corners, I have often forgotten the memo of edges, so how can I remember of it ?
> 
> edit : I use letter pair words, and a series of letters/numbers for corners



The way I deal with some this is to memo edges second and solve them first so that I can use audio for them, but your problem can probably be fixed by memoing corners faster.

EDIT: and yes, you may have to repeat your edge memo during corners (or at least refresh it).


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## Ickathu (Sep 1, 2012)

Petro Leum said:


> i did this with locations from the mmorpg Runescape. Worked pretty nicely, but i havent enough use for loci method since i cant do big cubes BLD and need too long for MBLD



Oh my gosh runescape.

You're brilliant.
THAT MAP IS HUGE! And I've played the game so much I can totally imagine myself walking all over the map, all the details (castles, banks, stores). Oh man. Fally and Varrock are HUGE too. I'm serious, that is a genius idea.


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## Martial (Sep 1, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> but your problem can probably be fixed by memoing corners faster.



I memo corners in 3-5sec, and solve them in 15-20sec

When i make a comm, it takes me about 3 seconds, you think that I would be able to refresh edges during this time, or I must refresh edges in several times, a little bit during each comm ?


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## Mollerz (Sep 1, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> Oh my gosh runescape.
> 
> You're brilliant.
> THAT MAP IS HUGE! And I've played the game so much I can totally imagine myself walking all over the map, all the details (castles, banks, stores). Oh man. Fally and Varrock are HUGE too. I'm serious, that is a genius idea.



WELL I CERTAINLY KNOW WHERE MY NEXT MULTIBLIND JOURNEYS ARE!

Holy **** WoW map... o_o


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## Noahaha (Sep 1, 2012)

Martial said:


> I memo corners in 3-5sec, and solve them in 15-20sec
> 
> When i make a comm, it takes me about 3 seconds, you think that I would be able to refresh edges during this time, or I must refresh edges in several times, a little bit during each comm ?



I am not experienced in the wide world of corners first, but I think the best advice is to do whatever you need to do to remember edges for now, and as time goes on it'll get easier. You do memo corners fast enough, so that's fine. Perhaps start by reviewing edge memo every corner comm, then once you're comfortable with that, review them every other comm. Then if that's easy too review them just once during corners, and so on.


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## Ickathu (Sep 1, 2012)

Mollerz said:


> WELL I CERTAINLY KNOW WHERE MY NEXT MULTIBLIND JOURNEYS ARE!
> 
> Holy **** WoW map... o_o



Never played WoW. If only I _owned_ Skyrim. I've played it a few times at a friends house, but not enough to be able to use those maps.

I'm totally gonna start playing runescape again to refresh the maps a little bit. If anyone wants to add me, I'm Ickathu, zot98 (?) and dragmon60.


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## Martial (Sep 1, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> Perhaps start by reviewing edge memo every corner comm, then once you're comfortable with that, review them every other comm. Then if that's easy too review them just once during corners, and so on.



Very good advice, thanks ! I'll try this way


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## Noahaha (Sep 1, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> Never played WoW. If only I _owned_ Skyrim. I've played it a few times at a friends house, but not enough to be able to use those maps.
> 
> I'm totally gonna start playing runescape again to refresh the maps a little bit. If anyone wants to add me, I'm Ickathu, zot98 (?) and dragmon60.



I would, but it was so hard to quit and I'm worried I would get addicted again.


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## Ickathu (Sep 1, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> I would, but it was so hard to quit and I'm worried I would get addicted again.



Yeah, but you can convince yourself that you're just doing it for the sake of blind. Because that's totally what you'd be thinking about when someone is killing you in lvl 40 wildy... Right...


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## AustinReed (Sep 1, 2012)

I'm not sure if this has already been brought up before, but I've come up with an idea for people who are having trouble coming up with specific journeys. 

This has only really been tested on 4BLD by me, but I'd be interested to see it applied to some other things. 

The idea is that the first two letters determine the journey you take. On my last 4bld, the first letters were J and G. That image is a Jaguar for me, so I thought of a journey through the Phoenix Zoo. I don't know the zoo that well, but I did go through what I did know. 

Let me know if anyone does this or it has been used. It works pretty well for me. 


On another note, how do people memorize big cube centres? Do they incorporate it into their journeys? I just memo them like 3bld edges, which is pretty much image pairs. 


-Thanks.


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## Noahaha (Sep 1, 2012)

AustinReed said:


> I'm not sure if this has already been brought up before, but I've come up with an idea for people who are having trouble coming up with specific journeys.
> 
> This has only really been tested on 4BLD by me, but I'd be interested to see it applied to some other things.
> 
> ...



Your first idea seems like it would be great for remembering your first image, but perhaps it would mess you up for the rest.

I memo each set of big cube centers in a room with four locations where each location refers to a different U-layer buffer.


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## AustinReed (Sep 1, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> Your first idea seems like it would be great for remembering your first image, but perhaps it would mess you up for the rest.
> 
> I memo each set of big cube centers in a room with four locations where each location refers to a different U-layer buffer.



For my example, the JG image is where the journey starts, right in front of the Jaguar Exhibit. Then you continue from there.


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## JasonK (Sep 1, 2012)

Mollerz said:


> WELL I CERTAINLY KNOW WHERE MY NEXT MULTIBLIND JOURNEYS ARE!
> 
> Holy **** WoW map... o_o



HOW DID I NEVER THINK OF THIS BEFORE >.<


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## Noahaha (Sep 1, 2012)

AustinReed said:


> For my example, the JG image is where the journey starts, right in front of the Jaguar Exhibit. Then you continue from there.



I understand, but perhaps you would do better with a route you're more familiar with. It's just a risk you have to look out for.


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## AustinReed (Sep 1, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> I understand, but perhaps you would do better with a route you're more familiar with. It's just a risk you have to look out for.



That's the downside, but I have so many places I'm familiar with, so this just makes it easier to make a decision.


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## Noahaha (Sep 1, 2012)

AustinReed said:


> That's the downside, but I have so many places I'm familiar with, so this just makes it easier to make a decision.



I see. This wouldn't work for me since I have to very carefully plan my routes so that each room/area has exactly 5 loci and I know what order they go in.


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## AustinReed (Sep 1, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> I see. This wouldn't work for me since I have to very carefully plan my routes so that each room/area has exactly 5 loci and I know what order they go in.



How many Journeys do you have ready to use? How often do you use each one?


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## AlexByard (Sep 9, 2012)

I am quite new to blind solving (I use old pochmann for corners) and have only recently found that my memo method for corners seems to frustrate me, i was using the basic tapping method, so for the past couple of hours i have been looking around for a method which i find easy and i can recall very easily, as with the tapping method i find myself having to constantly re-memo 4/5 time... I tried the Roman rooms and many others. But while trying to work out a method of my own i came across a method i find much faster and easier to recall than my previous way. What i do is i imagine parts of my body turning a colour and the only way to solve it is to do that corner of the cube, For example, "Oh **** my left shoulder is turning orange!" I would then proceed to solve the corner that is pointing to my left shoulder with the orientation placed on the orange side  hahaha, maybe my way of memorizing the corners may help people


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## Petro Leum (Sep 9, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> Oh my gosh runescape.
> 
> You're brilliant.
> THAT MAP IS HUGE! And I've played the game so much I can totally imagine myself walking all over the map, all the details (castles, banks, stores). Oh man. Fally and Varrock are HUGE too. I'm serious, that is a genius idea.





Noahaha said:


> I would, but it was so hard to quit and I'm worried I would get addicted again.



Runescape has changed sooooo much... when did you and Ickathu stop playing? if i were you... i wonder if you would still like it. there is also some rwt-by-jagex **** going on, nothing too serious though.
On topic, i think runescape is perfect for journeys or loci-like-rooms, because its based on panels, so in small rooms you could just see special panels (some that have a table or some item on it or something, or you see a table and its split up in 2 panels... you know what i mean?)
I have yet to try this out, but i think this gives runescape a slight advantage over C:SS or WoW. I mean, you can hardly utilise this, since on a large place its impossible to really distinguish and know all the panels, but i imagine the panelness can help for memorising  anyway, my name is petro leum ingame, feel free to add me.


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## Ickathu (Sep 9, 2012)

Petro Leum said:


> Runescape has changed sooooo much... when did you and Ickathu stop playing? if i were you... i wonder if you would still like it. there is also some rwt-by-jagex **** going on, nothing too serious though.
> On topic, i think runescape is perfect for journeys or loci-like-rooms, because its based on panels, so in small rooms you could just see special panels (some that have a table or some item on it or something, or you see a table and its split up in 2 panels... you know what i mean?)
> I have yet to try this out, but i think this gives runescape a slight advantage over C:SS or WoW. I mean, you can hardly utilise this, since on a large place its impossible to really distinguish and know all the panels, but i imagine the panelness can help for memorising  anyway, my name is petro leum ingame, feel free to add me.



Yeah, I was on it this week some... It's so much weirder now... I first started playing a few years before even the GE came out. I thought that was the dumbest thing  I haven't played in almost a year before this week. It's still similar enough though, and everything ist still where it was, just mostly graphics are different. A lot different. But yeah, It's not nearly as good now as it was. I'm really only gonna play so I can memorize the layout of the dungeons and stuff. I've already got the layout of the F2P surface memorized pretty darn accurately. I'm not quite sure what you mean by panels, but I used it the other day for a multi (2/3, I stink) and it worked really well. I did all 3 cubes in just 3 buildings plus the roads between in varrock. If you really wanted too, can you imagine how many 3x3s you could memorize in Varrock alone? You could probably fit 30 or so, for me at least. I can usually get by with 3-4 images per cube, and if they work well together I can do it in 2 sometimes (1 for corners, 1 for edges).


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Sep 9, 2012)

Computer game routes have been mentioned a few times. I've been using Super Mario, Zelda, and Banjo Kazooie routes exclusively since I started using journeys, they're pretty good. One advantage that I like is that it is well suited to a slightly cartoon-like/slapstick sort of images, which help to exaggerate them. You might not get that as much on games with more realistic graphics though. I'm starting to learn some speedrunning, and I'm going to try and make a memo route around the speedrun route, as that would be pretty awesome.


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## porkynator (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm posting here a new memo idea I had today. If this becomes a method, I'm going to call it:

*Intentional Collision System (ICS)*
If you know what an hash table is, you already know what I mean by collision (don't worry, I will explain).
*Note 1:* I will describe this system as a letter-based one, but it can be easily modified so that it doesn't require letters at all.
*Note 2:* I haven't tested this system yet, and I think it will be hard to do it for me, because my memo scheme is stuck in my mind so much that I can't even change a single letter (and I've tried to do it).

*How I thought of this system*
For people whose first language is kinda "poor" in terms of different possible sounds (vowels and consonants), it might be hard for blindcubers to find a decent memo scheme. So in the end on might have different letters that are pronounced in the same way (for example, I have C, Q and K in my scheme, which is a total disaster for an italian-based audio memo system). My idea was: let's turn this disadvantage into an advantage!

_The idea_
So you need 22 different letters for your edges memo scheme? Use the 11 most common in your language (possibly consonants). Now, someone will reply saying that 11 = 22/2. Good point. So, you'll have the same letter twice, in two different spots around your cube. To make the system easier, place them in two very different spots (like UL and FR, not like, for example, DB and DL). Now, if you memorize pieces in pairs, you will have 4 different pairs represented by the same pair of letters: this is what I mean by collision. Now, a few techniques to solve this problem:

1. _Visual Help_
Since you gave the same letter to very "different" pieces, visual memo may help you: memorize letters with audio loop (or something else, but I think audio loop will fit better than anything else), while "having an idea" of where your cycle is. This can be a very fast method, but it isn't safe at all; only possibly useful for 3BLD.
This is the technique that requires the most experimentation, but also, in my opinion, the only one that can really be better than more common techniques (I think the other 2 techniques have exactly the same potential as other methods like standard letter-pairing or images).

2. _Vowel insertion_
Inspired by this. For each pairs of pieces with the same letter, label them either _0_ or _1_ (so you will have, for example, C0 C1 B0 B1 etc...). This will be easier, again, if the two different pieces are _very_ different, so you can dived them, in your mind, in, for example, good and bad, or right and wrong, or any other pair of opposite adjectives. Now, Your memo pair will look like _XaYb_ with _X_ and _Y_ consonants and _a_ and _b_ binary digits (bits). Assign to each possible 2-digit binary number a vowel, like this:
_00 = a
01 = e
10 = i
11 = o_
Now, memorize the word _XabY_ with your favourite technique.
Example: memo is _C1D0_; _10 = i_, so you memorize _CID_.
Depending on the language you use, this can be useful for fast memorization or for longer duration purposes.

3. _Image-modifiers_
For this technique, we combine letter-pair images with the idea we used before, but now to each 2-digit binary number doesn't correspond a vowel, but an image-modifier (I couldn't find a better name, I mean something that is for an image what an adjective is for a word).
Example:
_00 = destruction
01 = small/young
10 = big/old
11 = plurality_
If the letter pair corresponds to, for example, _dog_, the 4 option will be something like a dead dog, a puppy, a mastiff and 101 dalmatians (from the movie). Applied to the _house_ image this will be something like a burnt house, a small wooden house, a skyscraper and a city.
This will be useful for multiBLD or big cubes: will have 440 images at the price (effort) of 110! (where "!" doesn't mean "factorial").

That's all folks.
Does this look any good?


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Sep 20, 2012)

Interesting idea, thanks for posting. I might try it for audio loop corners, I already use a hax image system which gets good image/effort ratio. Actually, my current audio loop labells stickers based on different sounds rather than letters (that is I started with a list of vowel and consonant sounds rather than a list of letters). I'd been thinking of shuffling around the sounds a little as it's a little awkward as it stands (probably a bad design by me rather than a bad idea in general), but I might try the vowel insertion method above too and see which works out better. I might even be able to do audio loop edges for 3BLD if it works out well enough, which would be really nice, then use something else for corners.

Possible idea:
00 = a
01 = e
10 = i
11 = o
as used above. Then example section of memo is B0 C0 D1 F0, you could join it into one extended 'word' and have BaCeDiF.


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## DrKorbin (Sep 21, 2012)

Very good idea. I use it for over the year, with a vowel insertion and little modification (peculiarities of Russian language), and it helped me a lot with TuRBo for edges: you just set B0, C0, D0, K0... for all good stickers (if you don't know, what a good sticker is, see here) and B1, C1, D1 for all bad stickers. Now when you have a 3-cycle (buffer is UF), you setup all edges onto the top, left or right side using only U, R, L, D, and sticker indexes have not changed! This helps you to calculate final orientation of edges after setup and what alg you must execute. (There some other tricks, like, if you setup all edges on front or back side, then the indexes of E-slice edges are changed).

Now I use speed-opt commutators for edges, and this system still helps me, but in a more complex way to describe (sticker indexes kind of help me to recognize a case).


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## iShadows (Sep 22, 2012)

What can I do to memorize corners? It's very difficult for me to memorize corners


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## Ickathu (Sep 22, 2012)

what do you do now?


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## sukesh12 (Sep 22, 2012)

Can you guys help me out? I always forget to orient the unoriented edges and therefore have fully solved cubes except for unoriented edges.


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## Ollie (Sep 22, 2012)

sukesh12 said:


> Can you guys help me out? I always forget to orient the unoriented edges and therefore have fully solved cubes except for unoriented edges.



Memorize them last and orientate them first?


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## Martial (Sep 22, 2012)

If you see an unoriented edge, you can use (M'U)3 U (MU)3 U at the beginning with your edge buffer because this edge can be reoriented as you want, it will be in the good orientation at the end of the solve. Maybe you'll have to use a set-up move.


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## DrKorbin (Sep 22, 2012)

Martial said:


> If you see an unoriented edge, you can use (M'U)3 U (MU)3 U at the beginning with your edge buffer because this edge can be reoriented as you want, it will be in the good orientation at the end of the solve. Maybe you'll have to use a set-up move.



But if you twist this edge and your buffer edge, the whole edge chain will be wrong


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## Ickathu (Sep 22, 2012)

DrKorbin said:


> But if you twist this edge and your buffer edge, the whole edge chain will be wrong



You have to do it with your buffer piece, not the piece in your buffer position.


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## Martial (Sep 23, 2012)

> You have to do it with your buffer piece, not the piece in your buffer position.


Yes it was what I meant


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 24, 2012)

sukesh12 said:


> Can you guys help me out? I always forget to orient the unoriented edges and therefore have fully solved cubes except for unoriented edges.



What I do is this: I start every solve with my feet spread apart. When memorizing, if I find that I have unoriented edges that need flipping at the end, I move my feet together. Then, I never stop the timer without checking to see if my feet are together - if they are, I know there must be edges that need flipping. Before I started doing this, I had the same problem you have. I'd say this increases my overall accuracy by 15% or so.


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## Ickathu (Sep 29, 2012)

Does anyone here actually use a PAO system? I think it would be the most efficient once completed, in combination with a journey.
I've currently got ~115-120 PAOs between my 00-99 digit system and my attempt at an A-X cube system. Now, I think what most people see as a problem with PAO is 
a) too hard. Far too many to come up with (if done with letter pairs; i.e., AA-XX each have there own PAO)
b) odd number (A-X) makes it hard to keep track of parity.
What I started doing today (still getting used to it, so I'm a little slow) is taking a person and action from my Single letter PAO list and then for the object using a letter pair object. You could start with something like this and then as time goes on slowly add onto your list of PAOs, adding in Actions next (but then you've got the odd problem again), and then finally adding in a person for each letter pair. It's a lot of PAOs, but it's definitely doable. I know some memory people have PAO systems for digits 000-999. That's 1,000 PAOs. We're only needing 
(22*22) = 484 PAOs (cause there are 2 letter pairs for each letter that are not needed - the letter again and the letter on the other side of the piece.)
If one wanted to do this for corners, that would be only 441 images. If this system were completed entirely, you could store 6 letters in a single image.

Example memo: F2 D B2 L2 D B2 D F2 U2 B2 L B2 R D' B' D' U' R2 B2 U2 F'
I'll be using Speffz lettering scheme to simplify things. Scramble in your solving orientation. UBL and DF buffers.
Edges: MR-DS-NL-JG-OI-QP (I hope I didn't make a mistake )
With letter pairs: Mars, Death Star, Nail, Jigaloo, Oil, Quarter Pounder
Mars is exploded by the death star. A nail flies out and stabs a can of jigaloo, causing it to explode and spill oil everywhere. The oil covers up a pile of quarter pounder burgers from McDonalds.
...or something like that. This one works really well to incorporate all the images together in one image, but sometimes you may have to use more.
With the current PAO thing I'm using (1-1-2 = 4): Merry (lotr) rips the death star in half. Noah licks a jaguar. Obi Wan injects a quarter pounder.
3 images.
Full letter pair PAO (2-2-2 = 6): Merry (lotr) sings (action from the person in my 00-99 system that would be DS using the "Major system"), and a nail shatters from the high-pitched-ness of it. Dory (67 - JG in major system. Don't ask why it's dory, this is just an example anyway) spills (OI = oil = oil spill) a bucket of heads (PAO object for QP equiv in major system)

I'll write more later.


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## Ollie (Sep 30, 2012)

I tried PAO for a while, but realised I could create better images with sentences because it provides more freedom. For that example memo:

MR-DS-NL-JG-OI-QP -> "MR Owen (friend who plays a lot of Nintendo *DS*) shooting a NaiL gun into a JoGger, who shouts "OI!" (cheeky audio pair.) He drops his eQuiPment and runs away."

For me that would form one image from 12 letters and could be placed in just one room on a memory route. I find this useful in big cube BLD and multiBLD and even things like memorising playing cards and lists because I can encode a lot of information quickly, use less rooms and images, and gives me a lot more freedom to be *imaginitive*, which is probably the most important part for forming vivid images that don't need reviewing constantly.

I've also never taken time to learn a set list, and have always determined my letter pair images on the spot because it allows for more freedom for imagination. Tricky pairs I will occasionally write down, but the point is letter pairs can get overused and become boring, so even my favourite letter pairs won't last forever.


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## riffz (Oct 4, 2012)

I believe that PAO is superior to regular images if done properly. With regular images, you end up improvising some sort of interaction between the images anyway. PAO simply codifies the interaction and allows you to store more memorization because the action is storing some information as well.

I tried to make a list once but I stopped because I never do anything bigger than 3BLD and I believe sounds in combination with sentences are just as good and much easier for 3x3.


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 4, 2012)

I remember that Chuck (Wicaksono Adi), who was one of the best multiBLD solvers back several years ago when he was active, advocated person-action. Not person-action-object, but it's still halfway there. While his results seem completely ordinary today, they were rather impressive at the time.

I know that I essentially have "verbified" and "adjectivified" versions of many of my images, and I often substitute those when they seem convenient. For instance, MP is a mop, but I often have someone mopping something when I get that image. I should really stop being lazy and try to come up with a complete list, just to see how it does. I wonder then if I should put more images at a particular location if I do that. Right now, I put 3 images at each location for big cubes (although I use more than that for multiBLD). I wonder if I might not be able to move up to 6 or even 9 images per location - if that would be better or worse.


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## Noahaha (Oct 4, 2012)

Mike Hughey said:


> I remember that Chuck (Wicaksono Adi), who was one of the best multiBLD solvers back several years ago when he was active, advocated person-action. Not person-action-object, but it's still halfway there. While his results seem completely ordinary today, they were rather impressive at the time.
> 
> I know that I essentially have "verbified" and "adjectivified" versions of many of my images, and I often substitute those when they seem convenient. For instance, MP is a mop, but I often have someone mopping something when I get that image. I should really stop being lazy and try to come up with a complete list, just to see how it does. I wonder then if I should put more images at a particular location if I do that. Right now, I put 3 images at each location for big cubes (although I use more than that for multiBLD). I wonder if I might not be able to move up to 6 or even 9 images per location - if that would be better or worse.



I am kind of in the other direction. I memorize in groups of 8 letters, so I usually end up with one of the following:
Person Action Adjective Object
Adjective Person Action Object
Person Adverb Action Object
Adjective Person Adverb Action

This allows a little more wiggle room with the same kind of recall.

Side Note: I prefer the term character over person
Side Note 2: I also use MoP for MP =D


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## A Leman (Oct 5, 2012)

I have just recently started using a Letterpair PAO-ish type system where I have 26 groups of 26 characters that each have An accesory and action that I link to have 10 letters in a loci.for example, Ash ketchum in piccolo's cape uses Avada Kedavra on a wartortle wearing Gandalf's hat and holding his stick would fit in a loci.

I also like this for numbers since they are grouped in 10's which makes it easier to find say the 326th letter of pi in a roman room.

Another trick I figured out for cards is that the first four parts of the image tell me the number and color of the cards while i use an audio loop to remind me wheather it is clubs/spades hearts/diamonds. I then translate the audio into the last image in the loci. This gives me 8 cards in a loci and an easy compromise to the Ben system which would have required me to quadruple my image list. I have never heard of anyone else using a system like this for cards, but it was a convient way for me to make my blindsoving system work better than a single card PAO.


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## Ickathu (Oct 5, 2012)

that seems like a pretty good PAO thing. For cards, that seems pretty hard though... how can you keep track of club/spade/heart/diamond for 52 different cards? I really like normal PAO for cards. I end up getting 3 per loci, which is a fairly good amount. 8 cards in a loci seems awfully crammed like you may mix up images.


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## A Leman (Oct 5, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> that seems like a pretty good PAO thing. For cards, that seems pretty hard though... how can you keep track of club/spade/heart/diamond for 52 different cards? I really like normal PAO for cards. I end up getting 3 per loci, which is a fairly good amount. 8 cards in a loci seems awfully crammed like you may mix up images.



Maybe I wasn't too clear,I only keep track of 8 at a time. It is a bit more thought intensive than single letter PAO, but it is stores more. A-M are the reds and N-Z are the blacks,Club/Spade Heart/Diamond act like binary I use temperary audio loop to keep the 8 digit binaryish string in my head until I convert it to be the last image. I also don't need to add new images to my letter pair system since 2^8=256. 

This system did take alot of effort to make but not as much as the millenium PAO or the Ben System would. The audioloop is very weak and a short term tool that really only helps me translate the last image more quickly. I have mostly worked on finishing and practacing this over the last few weeks so I am still getting more fluent in the system.

Also, Do others use this to practice memo http://www.dave-reed.com/Nifty/randSeq.html I have found it usefull.


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## Ickathu (Oct 5, 2012)

A Leman said:


> Maybe I wasn't too clear,I only keep track of 8 at a time. It is a bit more thought intensive than single letter PAO, but it is stores more. A-M are the reds and N-Z are the blacks,Club/Spade Heart/Diamond act like binary I use temperary audio loop to keep the 8 digit binaryish string in my head until I convert it to be the last image. I also don't need to add new images to my letter pair system since 2^8=256.
> 
> This system did take alot of effort to make but not as much as the millenium PAO or the Ben System would. The audioloop is very weak and a short term tool that really only helps me translate the last image more quickly. I have mostly worked on finishing and practacing this over the last few weeks so I am still getting more fluent in the system.



ahhh okay.



> Also, Do others use this to practice memo http://www.dave-reed.com/Nifty/randSeq.html I have found it usefull.



You mean like this? http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?26035-The-BLD-Stories-Thread


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## piece popper (Dec 20, 2012)

I just came up with one that works surprisingly well while trying to learn blindfold solving. You just use multiple sentences of this for both cycles:
(first colors)s who eat (second colors)s get (third colors)s for christmas. Just use this cycle over and over until you finish with the edges. Then use this cycle for the corners. It is easy to memorize and you can track how many of each there are without counting so you can find parity. Just note flipped edges and twisted corners. If you use positions instead of colors, it also works. If you don't have a multiple of three, just think (second to last colors) eat (last colors). If there is one more than a multiple of three, say that they get (second to last colors) and (last colors) for christmas. This is very easy to memorize.


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## Noahaha (Dec 20, 2012)

piece popper said:


> I just came up with one that works surprisingly well while trying to learn blindfold solving. You just use multiple sentences of this for both cycles:
> (first colors)s who eat (second colors)s get (third colors)s for christmas. Just use this cycle over and over until you finish with the edges. Then use this cycle for the corners. It is easy to memorize and you can track how many of each there are without counting so you can find parity. Just note flipped edges and twisted corners. If you use positions instead of colors, it also works. If you don't have a multiple of three, just think (second to last colors) eat (last colors). If there is one more than a multiple of three, say that they get (second to last colors) and (last colors) for christmas. This is very easy to memorize.



This is like a more restricted version of PAO, and would be more efficient if you used a letter scheme and had each word contain two letters.


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## A Leman (Jan 6, 2013)

*What not to do*



A Leman said:


> I have just recently started using a Letterpair PAO-ish type system where I have 26 groups of 26 characters that each have An accesory and action that I link to have 10 letters in a loci.for example, Ash ketchum in piccolo's cape uses Avada Kedavra on a wartortle wearing Gandalf's hat and holding his stick would fit in a loci.



I want to talk about this 26 almost random lists of 26 not particularly ordered people/characters (from books, movies, TV, manga) system. I thought it would work since people say that associations to pegs only matter when you start and that you need to focus on using strong images. 
I obviously misinterpreted this advice.:fp
DO NOT MAKE A RANDOM LIST OF 676 CHARACTERS AND TRY TO USE IT FOR MNEMONICS!!!
I was spending every night drilling the list and tapping the stickers to memorize the list for over a month and spent further months practicing it. The whole time I was convincing myself that I would get a better result than letter pairs in the long run. This is probably the BIGGEST cubing mistake I have ever made. Don't make associations were there are none. The craziest thing is that this system actually worked until I stopped Bld for a while to learn some speedcubing algs. It took about 3 weeks without practice for most of the associations to disappear and the rest were very difficult. Furthermore, I found this out right before a competition and did terribly (4x4: DNF DNS DNS, 3x3: DNF DNF DNF). 

If this stops anyone else from making such a list, I will consider this post a success because 
CE RH EB JF US
should never mean "Ash Ketchum in piccolo's cape uses Avada Kedavra on a Wartortle wearing Gandalf's hat"

I thought this would solve similar letter confusion and rare letter pair difficulty, but I created a whole host of problems instead.
I was stupid and tried to brute force mnemonics. Don't be like I was. I am back to using phonetic letter pair associations and I am much better off.


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## cmhardw (Jan 6, 2013)

I tried something fun yesterday, and I considered it a failure for what I was trying to achieve but I also found it very motivating to improve my memory method.

My girlfriend had a friend from college visiting town this weekend and the three of us spent a lot of time together just hanging out. At one point we went to WonderWorks in Orlando, which is sort of a science museum/learning center geared towards kids and adults. One of the games was a giant version of the memory game Simon. It had 5 buttons, each showing a different color. At one point Katie and her friend were playing a two player game elsewhere so I decided to give the Simon game a try using my memory images and journeys.

The record for the Simon game (which the game displays at all times) was 25, and I figured that would be 13 images in order to beat and set a new record of 26. 13 images would fit into 4 full journey locations each containing 3 images of 2 letters, plus another letter pair image in the start of a fifth location. This is less information to remember than a 4x4x4 cube, so I figured it would be a cinch to beat the record of 25 without much effort.

I was very wrong. I made it to 15 in two tries, and after that we had to leave because I was really there to hang out with Katie and her friend, not to play memory games 

I found that my problem was not with the encoding. I could encode as quickly as the machine showed me new colors. Basically I took the first letter of every color and set it as a letter from my letter pairs. (O)range, (B)lue, etc. If I got two of the same color in a row, so (B)lue (B)lue then I would just picture an exaggeratedly large version of my single letter image for B which is Orlando (B)loom. So the memory method was sound for the most part, albeit a little different than what I am used to.

I found that the problem came during recall. The machine did not allow you much time to pause when playing back the sequence after it had shown you a new color added onto your previous sequence. I sometimes would find that I would have a memory recall delay for an image, and as I tried to use my normal techniques to decode what was there the machine would tell me that I timed out and lost. This happened to me twice, and is how I stopped both of my attempts. As I said before, the furthest I made it to was 15 colors in a sequence. This is 7 images and a single letter image after that, which only takes 2.5 locations, about as much to remember as a 3x3x3 cube.

This was a huge wake-up call for me, as it showed me that under intense pressure my failing is not encoding, but decoding. Does anyone have any ideas on how to improve your ability to decode when memorizing quickly, to avoid the recall delays? I know that is a HUGE question, and is the kind of thing we are all searching for. I am open to ideas, though, if anyone has any.


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## kinch2002 (Jan 6, 2013)

cmhardw said:


> ...Does anyone have any ideas on how to improve your ability to decode when memorizing quickly, to avoid the recall delays?


My 4bld started as a very formulaic memo, with letters made into sentences, placed into locations in rooms. My coding and decoding times improved when I decided not to be so stuck in my set ways of memorising things. After all, some cycles are so easy to remember visually that coding into roman rooms is very inefficient. I stuck to memorising edges 4 pieces at a time into each location, but I started to occasionally memo 4 pieces visually instead of with letters, when the targets seemed easy to do so. My centres were always fairly flexible in terms of number of targets to memo in each locations, but again I tended to start using more visual and sometimes numbers as well (following A=1 B=2 etc). The numbers were particularly useful when I got 3 targets (or more) in a row that would clearly make a nice number sequence (e.g. constant difference). For example, BGLQ isn't so pretty to memorise with letters, but for me it was obvious from their position on the cube (before even thinking of the letters) that they would make a simple number sequence 2-7-12-17.

This memo (that I called 'freestyle memo') was very easy for me to recall as I still had set locations in each room, but some locations I would have remembered that I memorised the 4 pieces visually, or 4 pieces with numbers. And if I had memorised e.g. 4 centres with numbers, 5 centres visually and 4 edges visually, it was very easy to remember what the memo was because there weren't many cases of it. This also reduced the number of letters/sentences I had used and therefore those were also easier to recall.

I encourage 'fast' people to experiment with a more freestyle type of memo because that accounts for much of what got me from a 2 minute memo to 1:20


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## cmhardw (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks for your reply Daniel. I guess I just need to be more flexible and try out freestyle memo (for cubing). I imagine this would have helped me during the Simon game also.

One question: When memorizing part of a cycle visually how do you keep track of whether you used an even or odd number of pieces in the cycle? Do you just count them and move back into your formulaic memo appropriately?

For example, so I start to memorize my memo in formulaic way as: (A NU EF * * *) where * * * represents that I memorized 3 pieces visually. If that cycle continued on and did not complete yet then I would have to start my next letter as a single letter image so that my cycles after the visual stuff still executed as one cycle per image.

Do you track this during encoding? Or do you not worry about it during encoding, and wait till the solving phase where you would just deal with doing cycles that span 2 letter pair images after the point where you memorized the visual cycle?

To complete the example my final memo might be:
(A NU EF ** *R ST XC) etc. Again an * represents a piece memorized visually.


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## kinch2002 (Jan 20, 2013)

Visual edge memo I'd always do 4 edges visually, as my memo is always broken down into 4s.
Centres I would always do an even number of targets visually - tended to be 4 again (unless 3/5 pieces finished the cycle). Therefore I would never encounter cycles that span 2 images

p.s. sorry for the slow reply - didn't see this until now!


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## DW9550 (Nov 30, 2013)

I have not seen anyone mention this idea, but I am guessing it has come up.
I have not solved the cube blindfolded yet, but I am very close, and I use Pochmann's method for both edges and corners.
I match a number to a face of the cube. Yellow: 1 Blue: 2 Red:3 Green: 4 Orange: 5 White:6
I then remember a series of numbers that correspond to each edge. So, for example, 15, 26, 41 would be Yellow and Orange, Blue and White, Green and Yellow pieces.
I use 3 digit numbers for corners, reading in a clockwise fashion. eg 265 would be Blue, White and Orange. I would know blue is facing up.
This method involves memorising 20 different numbers in a row (if I am correct), does anyone believe this to be a useful method? Is it a big waste of my time? Is it difficult to execute while blindfolded?
Thanks in advance, I'm pretty new to cubing, 28.5 seconds is my PB XD


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## Tim Major (Nov 30, 2013)

DW9550 said:


> I have not seen anyone mention this idea, but I am guessing it has come up.
> I have not solved the cube blindfolded yet, but I am very close, and I use Pochmann's method for both edges and corners.
> I match a number to a face of the cube. Yellow: 1 Blue: 2 Red:3 Green: 4 Orange: 5 White:6
> I then remember a series of numbers that correspond to each edge. So, for example, 15, 26, 41 would be Yellow and Orange, Blue and White, Green and Yellow pieces.
> ...




It's a lazy method of BLD. Can work, but if you want to get "fast" it isn't very viable unless you have abnormal short term memory.


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## Ollie (Nov 30, 2013)

DW9550 said:


> I have not seen anyone mention this idea, but I am guessing it has come up.
> I have not solved the cube blindfolded yet, but I am very close, and I use Pochmann's method for both edges and corners.
> I match a number to a face of the cube. Yellow: 1 Blue: 2 Red:3 Green: 4 Orange: 5 White:6
> I then remember a series of numbers that correspond to each edge. So, for example, 15, 26, 41 would be Yellow and Orange, Blue and White, Green and Yellow pieces.
> ...



More difficult to encode, decode and execute. 

Using letters uses the exact same principle with 27263552818236x more efficiency, numbers are more abstract and harder to comprehend for most people for memorization. Letters can be used to make words. Plus other stuff


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## ~Adam~ (Nov 30, 2013)

If you do intend to stick with this method (don't though) you don't need to memorise 3 digit numbers for corners. You could just memo clockwise around a corner every time which means you don't have to memo the 3rd sticker.


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## DW9550 (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks guys, I will switch method!


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## ChickenWrap (Feb 3, 2014)

I have been struggling with coming up with a memory method...then I got to thinking about binary. It seems like that might be useful for memorizing the cube...maybe. Any ideas on how I might go about it?

Edit: Or maybe hexadecimal? It seems like it might work but I can figure out corners....


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## cmhardw (Feb 3, 2014)

ChickenWrap said:


> I have been struggling with coming up with a memory method...then I got to thinking about binary. It seems like that might be useful for memorizing the cube...maybe. Any ideas on how I might go about it?
> 
> Edit: Or maybe hexadecimal? It seems like it might work but I can figure out corners....



How would binary be useful as a memory method?

Hint: It is, but for a specific method and for a specific part of that method.


Spoiler



Binary or even hexadecimal is a great way to memorize which edges are flipped in 3OP.



Don't take this the wrong way, but your question is showing that you are really approaching this from an unusual perspective. There are many different memory methods, and they all have strengths and weaknesses. Basically you will learn a memory method based on what it is you need to memorize. Not only that, but usually there are memory methods that generally work _better_ for what you need to memorize than other memory methods.

For example I use the MAJOR system to remember phone numbers, or what page I am on in a book. The MAJOR system is built around being able to remember strings of numbers which is why this works well. I would, however, probably not use the MAJOR system to memorize a cube because using numbers is generally not as good of a method as using letters. This is due to the "memorization space" of a cube. There are 10 digits if you use a number based method. However, there are 12 edges on a 3x3x3 cube. Already numbers is an inferior method since the memorization space of the cube (12 3x3x3 edges) is larger than the memorization space of a digits based memory method.

I would suggest not to come up with a memory method you like or that you find interesting, and _then_ try to apply that memory method to your cubing. Instead, try to think of what exactly you need to memorize when you memorize a cube. Then either come up with, or learn about, a memory method that helps you remember _that_ type of information.

I for one am willing to help you get on the right track for this if you really are interested. However, you have to start asking the right questions first 

Happy learning!

P.S. Seriously, please keep asking more questions (and no that is not sarcasm)


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## Renslay (Feb 3, 2014)

cmhardw said:


> For example I use the MAJOR system to remember phone numbers, or what page I am on in a book. The MAJOR system is built around being able to remember strings of numbers which is why this works well. I would, however, probably not use the MAJOR system to memorize a cube because using numbers is generally not as good of a method as using letters. This is due to the "memorization space" of a cube. There are 10 digits if you use a number based method. However, there are 12 edges on a 3x3x3 cube. Already numbers is an inferior method since the memorization space of the cube (12 3x3x3 edges) is larger than the memorization space of a digits based memory method.



Hmmmm, thanks, I didn't know about MAJOR system. I should learn it, since I use numbers to describe the corner permutations.


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## cmhardw (Feb 3, 2014)

Renslay said:


> Hmmmm, thanks, I didn't know about MAJOR system. I should learn it, since I use numbers to describe the corner permutations.



I would agree with using numbers for corners since the memorization space of the corners (8 pieces) can be accounted for by the memorization space of using a memory method with the 10 digits.

Also, if you haven't learned about the MAJOR system yet, and you use numbers for corners, then I think you will LOVE this method!


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## ChickenWrap (Feb 4, 2014)

cmhardw said:


> How would binary be useful as a memory method?
> 
> Hint: It is, but for a specific method and for a specific part of that method.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice!! I was simply thinking hexidecimal would work because it could store more numbers with less to memorize. Honestly, I need to work on my method more before I start working on memo.

Off topic (kind of), but is OP edges with T and J perms significantly slower than M2?


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## Renslay (Feb 6, 2014)

ChickenWrap said:


> Off topic (kind of), but is OP edges with T and J perms significantly slower than M2?



Yes. In OP, you do 1 or 2-move setups and 12-14-move PLLs for inserting one edge. In M2, you do 3-4-move setups and a 1-move insertion. M2 requires nearly half as many turns; advanced M2 uses even less turns.


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## ilikecubing (Feb 26, 2014)

Is there any use of letter pair images in things other than cubing? Like in any other memory challenges?


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## ChickenWrap (Feb 26, 2014)

Ok, I understand the idea behind Roam rooms. How do you actually apply that to memorization though? I mean, if I have my room with say, 10 objects/locations, what do I do next?


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## Ollie (Feb 27, 2014)

ilikecubing said:


> Is there any use of letter pair images in things other than cubing? Like in any other memory challenges?



Yes - random digits, memorizing a pack of cards, binary digits, historic dates, all can use letter pairs. Playing cards for example:

First letter = number of card (Ace = A, 2 = B, 3 = C etc. JQK remains the same.
Second letter = the first letter of the suit (SCHD)

6 of diamonds = FD = FreD

Memorize one image per card and you can memorize an entire deck with very little effort.



ChickenWrap said:


> Ok, I understand the idea behind Roam rooms. How do you actually apply that to memorization though? I mean, if I have my room with say, 10 objects/locations, what do I do next?



For example, let's say you have 3 loci and in brackets is your memo:

1. Table (BXTRPO)

Imagine that on the table is a BoX, place on top of the box a TRay covered in POo.

2. Drawers (PLRSCH)

I PuLl out a RuSty CHicken out of the drawers.

3. Lamp (WGHDPMLA)

I can see a man in a WiG HiDing behind the lamp. I shake some PoM poms in his face and sing at him "LAaaaa!"


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## ChickenWrap (Feb 27, 2014)

Ollie said:


> For example, let's say you have 3 loci and in brackets is your memo:
> 
> 1. Table (BXTRPO)
> 
> ...



I understand now. Would this be something I could/should use for single BLD, or should I just reserve that for multi BLD once I actually get a regular BLD success?


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## TheOneOnTheLeft (Feb 27, 2014)

Loci methods are usually reserved for longer-term memorisation, ie big cubes BLD and multi. For 3BLD you don't need to remember the information for as long, so you don't need those sorts of memory methods. Most people stick to images and audio for 3BLD.


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## TDM (Feb 27, 2014)

Ollie said:


> First letter = number of card (Ace = A, 2 = B, 3 = C etc. JQK remains the same.


What about 10? Would you use T for that, as you can't use J?


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## A Leman (Feb 27, 2014)

TDM said:


> What about 10? Would you use T for that, as you can't use J?



Everyone can makes their own scheme. I think Ollie does A-H,9=N,10=t,J,Q,K
I use a different scheme for numbers where [0123456789]=[otnmrfsdbg] and I use A,J,Q,K (I also use 0=C,k 9=J and 8=P 5=L sometimes for long digit events and catchphrases with more than 2 digits in a word) 

so 6 of diamonds, Jack of spades, 8 of diamonds= sd js bd= A sandstorm pushes Jessie into a bed.

I am trying something different for cards now, but I think it is better to not mention it in this post because it is more work and certainly more confusing. 

Letter pairs and images in general can also be used for passwords, phone numbers, addresses, birthdays, licence plate numbers, vocabulary and school work.


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## Ollie (Feb 27, 2014)

A Leman said:


> Everyone can makes their own scheme. I think Ollie does A-H,9=N,10=t,J,Q,K
> I use a different scheme for numbers where [0123456789]=[otnmrfsdbg] and I use A,J,Q,K (I also use 0=C,k 9=J and 8=P 5=L sometimes for long digit events and catchphrases with more than 2 digits in a word)
> 
> so 6 of diamonds, Jack of spades, 8 of diamonds= sd js bd= A sandstorm pushes Jessie into a bed.
> ...



correct  GOOD MEMORY!

How is MS going atm? I think I'll have to make a comeback to 'practice' multi whilst I have no cubes


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## A Leman (Feb 28, 2014)

Ollie said:


> correct  GOOD MEMORY!
> 
> How is MS going atm? I think I'll have to make a comeback to 'practice' multi whilst I have no cubes



It's going. I have been doing only untimed endurance. The 3 things that I have been practicing is 12 decks of cards, 1000 digits in as long as it takes and reciting 2120 digits of Pi that I memorized in separate routes. For digits, I am putting a post-it note over the Memoriad timer on my laptop and I have realized how much more exhausting it is to recite a digit at a time for pi since it is ~4 times less compact in terms syllables. This practice is not fun at all and turns my brain to mush. How does Maskow do it? I'm weak. 

No cubing at all, but this practice will definitely cross over when I get back into cubing.


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## DeeDubb (Mar 31, 2014)

*Linguistic Audio Method - Proposal and request for suggestions*

I'm not really sure if this is a new method, but I was working on a *different approach to the audio method for edges a single 3BLD cube*. I was following Noah's awesome guide, which he uses lettering systems for both edges and corners, but it seems to be less fitting for the audio shorter memory method, which creates a lot of weird combos that don't make good sounds together (q's and x's), and also letters with the same or similar sounds (k, c or c/s sometimes, various vowels have the same sounds in different environments). I was trying to think of possibly a better way involving focusing on *sounds rather than letters*.

So, basically here goes. My major was linguistics, so I understand a lot about the phonetics of English and other languages and phonology in general. I'm not very familiar with cognitive memory sciences, so that is where I need some help with this system, but I really think I'm on to something good.

Instead of focusing on letters for each edge, _each side would be assigned a sound_. The two sides that make up the edge would combine into a syllable. So, let's say the U face was given sound A and the F face was given sound B, then the syllable that would be created for UF would be A+B and the syllable that would be created for FU would be B+A.

The one mandatory requirement for making a syllable (in nearly every language in the world) is a vowel (or semivowel, but we don't need to get into that). This would mean that a consonant+consonant edge must not exist. Therefore, only two opposing sides can be assigned a consonant sound, while the other four sides must have vowel sounds.

Since we have four vowel edges, that means some syllables will consist of only vowels. This means that we must find a way to make distinctive vowel + vowel combinations. Most languages, including English, have many vowel+vowel combinations within a syllable. These are known as "glides" (such as 'ya' or 'wa') or diphthongs such as the vowel on 'house'. So, these should not be a problem as long as we select vowels that are far enough separated to prevent ambiguous pronunciation.

In phonetics, we sometimes talk about the 3 most basic vowels, which nearly every language possesses, and those are */i/* (like the vowel in "seek") */a/* (like the vowel in "rot" or "ah") and */u/* (like the vowel in "soon"). For top face, I definitely think /i/ is best, and for bottom face /u/ is best. These is because these two vowels can easily be combined with other vowels to create easy glide sounds. like /i/ + /o/ would make a "yo" sound. and /u/ + /a/ would make a "wa" sound.

Back or front face could get /a/, doesn't really matter. I assigned it to the back face. The front face, I gave another very common vowel sound, which is */o/* (like the vowel in "home". This creates a lot of easily pronounceable vowel+vowel combinations.

Now, what's left is left and right face. For these, I'm having trouble deciding the best possible consonants to use. The fact is, they could be any two consonants basically, as long as they don't sound to similar to each other. I actually started off just using /l/ for the left face and /r/ for the right face. I decided to try more distinct and different sounds, so_ I used */p/* for the left face and */k/* for the right face_. This is something I would really like suggestions about.

So, here's the sound combinations by side:

*U face: /i/ (like the vowel in "seek")*

UF: /i/ + /o/ = "yo"
UB: /i/ + /a/ = "ya" (like the first part of "yawn")
UL: /i/ + /p/ = "eep"
UR: /i/ + /k/ = "eek"

*Down Face: /u/ (like the vowel in "boo")*

DF: /u/ + /o/ = "whoa"
DB: /u/ + /a/ = "wa" (like the first syllable of "water")
DL: /u/ + /p/ = "oop"
DR: /u/ + /k/ = "ook"

* Front Face: /o/ (like the vowel in "home")*

FU: /o/ + /i/ = "oi" (like the vowel in "poise" or "oink")
FD: /o/ + /u/ = "owe" (like the word "owe" or the letter "O") _NOTE: this one will not be used with M2, because it is the buffer_
FL: /o/ + /p/ = "ope" (like everything except the 'h' in "hope")
FR: /o/ + /k/ = "oak"

*Back Face: /a/ (like the vowel in "rot" or "all")*

BU: /a/ + /i/ = "aye" (like "aye aye captain")
BD: /a/ + /u/ = "ow" (like "ow, I hurt myself") _NOTE: This is the only one that may sound similar to another, which is "ow" vs. "owe". However, as mentioned above, "owe" isn't used in M2_
BL: /a/ + /p/ = "op" (like the first consonant of "operation", you can also say "app" like "application here, as it will not be confused with anything else)
BR: /a/ + /k/ = "auk" (like the first syllable of "awkward" or "October", you can also say "ack" here like the second syllable of "attack" as it won't be confused with anything else)

* Left Face: /p/*

LU: /p/ + /i/ = "Pee"
LD: /p/ + /u/ = "Poo" (not intentional I swear...)
LF: /p/ + /o/ = "Poe" (like Edgar Allen...)
LB: /p/ + /a/ = "Pa" (like "Ma and Pa")

*Right Face: /k/*

RU: /k/ + /i/ = "Kee"
RD: /k/ + /u/ = "Koo"
RF: /k/ + /o/ = "Ko" (like "Co-worker")
RB: /k/ + /a/ = "Ka" (like a bird saying "Caw" or the first part of "Caught")


These can easily blocked into pairs as my example solve will show.

Scramble: B2 L2 U' R2 B2 U' F2 U2 B2 R2 D' B F2 D U2 F' L' D2 L' D' U2

RU/FL: eek-ope
DR/RF: ook-ko
DB/UF: wa-yo
UB/LB: ya-pa
RB/UL: ka-eep
DL = ook (+parity)

So, our memo sequence would be "eek-ope ook-ko wa-yo ya-pa ka-eep ook" (and remember parity)

After working with this system for a while, here's the pros and cons:

*PROs*
Absolutely 100% consistent, no ambiguity issues
Easily track number of moves by counting syllables
Very easy sounds, that nearly every language on the planet can utilize
You can easily remember flipped edges because they will have symmetry (i.e. "ook-koo" would be a flipped edge)
In M2, You can easily remember which setups need B or B' because they will be the only ones that start with consonants (since L/R are the only consonant faces)

*CONs*
Very little semantic association with these sounds (very few of these combinations make anything similar to English words)
_This con is a big one. I had a lot of trouble retaining these sounds in my mind. I know audio method is just supposed to be sounds, but there is something about having similarity to actual words that makes them easier to retain._ 
_EDIT:By only having one piece of information per syllable, we will have twice as many syllables to remember._


My ideas for possible improvement:

This one, I thought of while writing this up. Fully change the /a/ back face to /æ/ (which is the vowel in "Dan" "sand" and "apple") This will create a lot more sounds that are more similar to English words.

Instead of using 1 consonant for L and R, I could use a group of consonants for each side. For example, I could use voiceless consonants on one side /p/ /t/ /k/ /s/ and "ch" sound and voiced on the other side /b/ /d/ /g/ /z/ and "j" sound. This would allow for more creativity when making sound combos. So, "eep" isn't a word in English, but "eat" is. "oop" isn't very memorable but "ooze" is... etc.

Thank you for your time. If you guys can help come up with any other possible ways to perfect this system, I will gladly pursue it further. If it is unanimously thought of as worthless, then I will scrap it.


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## TheOneOnTheLeft (Mar 31, 2014)

This seems like a really good idea to remove the ambiguities in audio, but what seems to me to be the biggest con is one that you missed. You're only encoding one target per syllable, and that's not likely to be efficient enough to make sufficiently short audio loops. Modern working memory models suggest we can hold about 7 "chunks" of information in our short term memory (it's actually more about the time it would take to say, but 7 syllables is a useful measure). By encoding two targets to a syllable, letter-pair based audio memorisation means it should be fairly easy to memo up to fourteen edge targets. With your system, this would be a lot harder, and this might be the reason you're having trouble remembering them. 

If you can come up with a way to encode two targets per syllable while avoiding ambiguity, this could be really effective. Good luck with it, and hopefully some people more experienced in BLD than I am will weigh in. Ollie has a good post going over some of the neuroscience of memory which might be of some use to you moving forward.


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## DeeDubb (Mar 31, 2014)

TheOneOnTheLeft said:


> This seems like a really good idea to remove the ambiguities in audio, but what seems to me to be the biggest con is one that you missed. You're only encoding one target per syllable, and that's not likely to be efficient enough to make sufficiently short audio loops. Modern working memory models suggest we can hold about 7 "chunks" of information in our short term memory (it's actually more about the time it would take to say, but 7 syllables is a useful measure). By encoding two targets to a syllable, letter-pair based audio memorisation means it should be fairly easy to memo up to fourteen edge targets. With your system, this would be a lot harder, and this might be the reason you're having trouble remembering them.
> 
> If you can come up with a way to encode two targets per syllable while avoiding ambiguity, this could be really effective. Good luck with it, and hopefully some people more experienced in BLD than I am will weigh in. Ollie has a good post going over some of the neuroscience of memory which might be of some use to you moving forward.



Yes, you are correct. The string could be considerably longer because the syllable only codes to one value. I overlooked that. Thanks.

So, basically there are 24 pieces of information, we need to be able to remember up to around 14 of them within 7 or so syllables. Hmm, I will see what I can think of. I just know there has to be a better way than antiquated English orthography.


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## DeeDubb (Apr 1, 2014)

Alright, so I came up with some minor changes to the current alphabet audio method until I can think of something better.

There are a few consonant sounds in English that aren't represented by a single letter:

"ch" sound like "chunky"
"sh" sound like "shy"
"th" sound like "this" (there's actually two "th" sounds, one voiced and one voiceless, like the difference between saying "either" and "ether", but you can use either to prevent confusion)

There are 3 really problematic consonants in the letter audio method, which are q, x, and (c or k)

So, if we change those 3 to sounds we don't currently have, it makes things easier.

X -> "sh" sound (this is easy to remember, because Chinese often use x for "sh" sounds, so you've probably heard this before from Chinese names)
C -> "ch" sound (easy to remember, because "ch" has a "c" in it)
Q -> "th" sound (not easy to remember, but would be easy with practice.

As for vowels, just try to use consistent pronunciation

A -> "B*a*t"
E -> "B*e*t"
I -> "B*ea*t"
O -> "B*oa*t"
U -> "B*oo*t"

Unfortunately, vowel+vowel combinations will still be awkward. I+A will be tough to distinguish from Y+A, U+A is tough to distinguish from W+A. But at least it's better. I'll keep working on a more linguistic approach, but I think this is a pretty good adjustment to make to the current system.


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## speedcxber (Apr 1, 2014)

Apologies for the fact that this has probably been covered elsewhere, but the masses of BLD info available are pretty difficult to rifle through and find exactly what I'm looking for.
I'm learning 3x3 BLD; I think the method I'm using is M2... 
Im testing memorisation methods and I like the idea of assigning letters to pieces and then memorising the syllables, so what are some good systems of consonants/vowels that you guys use.
Also, how do you remember the orientations, and cycle breaks? Then, how do you deal with correctly permuted but incorrectly oriented pieces?
I can imagine these questions have endless answers but I feel like a noob all over again by trying to break into BLD, its not easy.
I'm currently practicing doing a cycle of 3 or 4 pieces, but struggling with orientations and cycle breaks. I've also tried memorising a last layer then solving that. Any suggestions for practice methods are also appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


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## DeeDubb (Apr 2, 2014)

speedcxber said:


> Apologies for the fact that this has probably been covered elsewhere, but the masses of BLD info available are pretty difficult to rifle through and find exactly what I'm looking for.
> I'm learning 3x3 BLD; I think the method I'm using is M2...
> Im testing memorisation methods and I like the idea of assigning letters to pieces and then memorising the syllables, so what are some good systems of consonants/vowels that you guys use.
> Also, how do you remember the orientations, and cycle breaks? Then, how do you deal with correctly permuted but incorrectly oriented pieces?
> ...



I learned from Noah's amazing tutorial. Definitely worth watching the whole thing.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?40921-Noah-s-Blindfolded-Tutorial


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## goodatthis (Jul 15, 2014)

When I memorize, I feel like I make my letter pairs too condensed. For example, one cube of a Multi memo recently:

BCGKWFXM ACGJLSHNVE

BC (dads initials) GawKed at the WildFire eXaM
AC (moms initials) did a Good Job LoSing HoNey from the VEt

Is keeping memo concise like this a better or worse way to go? When I see some people's example memos, they seem much more spread out. Note that these were pretty good letters, I was able to tell a story and the corner and edge memo both started with my parents intitials lol, but there are some other memos that I have trouble with where I wind up having random words strung together, like the one below. (I generated them, so they might not make sense cube-wise))


FX GK HJ BW PW VL DM NI UC RX

Fox GaWked HiJo Black/White
PoW VLad DaMn NIle UCla medicine (RX)


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## Ollie (Jul 15, 2014)

goodatthis said:


> When I memorize, I feel like I make my letter pairs too condensed. For example, one cube of a Multi memo recently:
> 
> BCGKWFXM ACGJLSHNVE
> 
> ...



I always preferred to keep it concise and squeeze as much information into one sentence/one room as possible, especially big blind. It's something you need to practice a bit as the trick is to not add too much detail that you're likely to forget stuff, but also not too short in order to not use too many rooms.



Spoiler: recent 5bld example



Wings: (MK RC PJ HX EU BN) (AF, WG, SD, QA) // While I'm MilKing a RaCecar in my new PyJamas, a witch (HX) brings me a bEaUtiful girl in a BiN. She starts fAFfing about with her WiG, making SaD QuAcking noises. // 20 targets, one room.
Midges: (JN AC DT GQ WL C) // JoN ACes a tennis ball into some DirTy magazine (GQ), but his WiLly mysteriously rises to the Ceiling // 11 targets, one room.
X-Centers: A(QI GR HM TN KU OW S) (BE) (DF) (LX) // Stephen Fry (QI) is GRowling, until he starts HuMming a TuNe "KUOWS!", a BEe drinking DuFf containing LaXatives // 13 targets + 3x2-cycles, two opposite ends of one long room.
+-Centers: A(IM VO QH KT LP J) (BR) C(HJ) (DW) // IMy reading VOgue, smearing jam (QH) on a KiTkat, smacking her LiPs and going "Jah!", a BRown Indian (HJ) telling me to "Don't Worry! You'll get world record on this solve" (no joke.) // various cycles, one room.


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## DeeDubb (Jul 16, 2014)

Ollie said:


> Spoiler: recent 5bld example
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ollie, I have some questions about how you memo, and maybe it's things that you've just naturally developed, but I'm fascinated by how you can use targets as different parts of speech. While most of your targets are nouns, many are verbs, which I bolded above. I'm guessing your main memo on these is noun, but you will alternate to verbs when it's beneficial:

Milking (milk)
Faffing (actually I don't know what this means, I'm guessing it's Brit slang)
Growling (growl)
Humming (hum)

you also use adjectives which don't seem to have noun counterparts:
Sad
Brown
_QuAcking_ noises (I'm guessing this is memo'd as a block, so quacking is treated as a noun in all of your memos, like the sound of a quack)


Are SD and BR always "Sad" and "Brown" to describe the next target?

Also, do you have a lot of memos that are flexible in their parts of speech?


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## PJKCuber (Jul 16, 2014)

I really need to read this thread. Most of my 3BLD DNF's are from forgetting memo.


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## Ollie (Jul 16, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Also, do you have a lot of memos that are flexible in their parts of speech?



Yes, as I usually have a choice of two or three words for each pair that I have accumulated from memorizing a lot. I still also try to make things up on the spot and try new words because sometimes they're effective and I can use them later on.

Using famous people (or friends) as letter pairs is useful because they usually have some sort of verb associated with them. DB is James Bond (like the Aston Martin DB9) so DB is either him or the verb to spy. But because I occasionally have to use audio or construct longer sentences it can also mean to dab something with something or it is "DuB" like dub step. I would say that this is possible to do with 80% of all my letter pairs.

For instance, SD is the word sad or Sid the Sloth (from Ice Age) while BR is brown or bruise, which can alternate between the noun form of bruise and to bruise something.

I usually make up filler words on the spot like beautiful for EU to make a sentence flow more easily too.

Also, faffing is slang to waste time  but AF is also a model (like Abercrombie and Fitch) and the verb to model.


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## DeeDubb (Jul 18, 2014)

Ollie said:


> Yes, as I usually have a choice of two or three words for each pair that I have accumulated from memorizing a lot. I still also try to make things up on the spot and try new words because sometimes they're effective and I can use them later on.
> 
> Using famous people (or friends) as letter pairs is useful because they usually have some sort of verb associated with them. DB is James Bond (like the Aston Martin DB9) so DB is either him or the verb to spy. But because I occasionally have to use audio or construct longer sentences it can also mean to dab something with something or it is "DuB" like dub step. I would say that this is possible to do with 80% of all my letter pairs.
> 
> ...



Oh, very interesting... Right now, my memo sheet is pretty much ONLY names of celebrities and people I know. None of these have any flexibility for changing parts of speech. I'm trying to use a room, and I just have each person fill a different role in the room. So, it will be someone's birthday party, and the first pair is the person whose birthday it is. Second pair is his friend throwing him the party, third is someone lurking in the corner, 4th 5th and 6th if necessary are people on the couch. If I have parody the last person is holding an object that starts with whatever letter the last single letter is, and that's the edges. Corners is the bathroom at the party. First target is on the toilet, second is in the shower, third and beyond are in the hot tub... This way I don't really need verbs, because I have a story and I'm just filling it with people, but I think I would memo a lot less if I scrapped the whole thing and went to a system with more flexibility.


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## Nicck (Jul 20, 2014)

The music video for DJ Shadow's "Scale It Back" is the mem for a deck of cards by Ben Pridmore (3rd in speedcards internationally)

Video:


Spoiler


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## Berd (Aug 22, 2014)

I thought I would leave my variant of Roman rooms here, exposed to constructive criticism. I play Halo: Reach a lot. 2+ hours daily for the last 2 hours so I tend to know the maps in this game. So instead of using rooms in my house I use distinct ares of maps. These is better because there are an infinite amount of rooms compared to the number in my house so I can attemped big bld / multi bld knowing that I have enough "rooms". If anyone could point out major floors or link to some other similar methods that would be great, Thanks!


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## SirWaffle (Dec 14, 2014)

So, an idea for memoing multi bld my brother actually thought of and that I hadn't even thought of once (stating this now I think it is a variation of journey method but is something to certainly look into) Basically, instead of using one room from a movie/book, you take a book or book series and have the characters, places and objects as a cube's memo, so for example, I want to memo a cube using the Harry Potter series, (note, not any room imparticular each time) HC AW LI GV SJ NG, BH GQ, TJI. So I'd picture the *H*ufflepuff *c*ommon room, with *A**r*thur Weasly holding a *li*ghter and *G*inir*v*a (Ginny) *s*tudying *j*ar a of *n*ewt *g*uts. (now to the quidditch pitch) a *b*ludger *h*itting *G*oyle making him *q*uit and storm off and *T*onks *j*oins *i*n (making a big enterance so I'd picture fireworks or something to make it standout). This is just a very basic example but the point is you use one book per cube and use as much as possible from the book. For some people this might work well if they are very avid readers and know a lot about a book series. I am actually going to be trying it myself using books I know well. (books I'd use if anyone cares , Harry Potter, Ender's Game, Hunger Games, and Percy Jackson)


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## slinky773 (Dec 14, 2014)

SirWaffle said:


> So, an idea for memoing multi bld my brother actually thought of and that I hadn't even thought of once (stating this now I think it is a variation of journey method but is something to certainly look into) Basically, instead of using one room from a movie/book, you take a book or book series and have the characters, places and objects as a cube's memo, so for example, I want to memo a cube using the Harry Potter series, (note, not any room imparticular each time) HC AW LI GV SJ NG, BH GQ, TJI. So I'd picture the *H*ufflepuff *c*ommon room, with *A**r*thur Weasly holding a *li*ghter and *G*inir*v*a (Ginny) *s*tudying *j*ar a of *n*ewt *g*uts. (now to the quidditch pitch) a *b*ludger *h*itting *G*oyle making him *q*uit and storm off and *T*onks *j*oins *i*n (making a big enterance so I'd picture fireworks or something to make it standout). This is just a very basic example but the point is you use one book per cube and use as much as possible from the book. For some people this might work well if they are very avid readers and know a lot about a book series. I am actually going to be trying it myself using books I know well. (books I'd use if anyone cares , Harry Potter, Ender's Game, Hunger Games, and Percy Jackson)



Who's up for using Steven King books?


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## Ollie (Dec 14, 2014)

Marcell used to do this with themes. I don't know the specifics, but he used to do a theme for each of his 3 solves AFAIK


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## A Leman (Dec 15, 2014)

Hi Waffle, It's a good idea. The main problem would be that it would take too much time to be coming up with letter pairs on the spot if and you don't seem to have an exact system for finding out what letter pair a word is. It would also put a large limit of the # of possible words. There is another method called the peg method that is not heard about much from cubers. Chester Lian used it in his MBLD WR. The idea would be to use a list of characters/ objects from a show like harry potter and link your letter pairs to them instead of using locations. You could also make the list in order of when characters are introduced. I haven't had much luck with it but others have.

From what I've read, Marcel's themes have more to do with the associations than the actual letter pairs. He'd make a memo sexual, violent or bizarre. Of course, the themes lend themselves to different vocabularies, but that is a more passive than conscious change. 

I want to follow up on my attempt to use my PA letter pair list. I know all of the pairs well and I have tried to follow the pattern, but I always end up deviating from using PA during memo's. It seems like I just can't make the switch since all of my time doing BLD has made it easy to come up with things on the spot and my intuition for not swapping the order is very good. I also use adjective sometimes and it's too reflexive of a habit to change those pairs. I do think it was helpful to have a list of person's though and it has improved the overall quality of my images since it is still part of my mnemonic vocabulary. 

On another note, I have been getting a lot more dodges where I can make a 2 syllable image of 4 letters like GoLDucK, RoSeWooD, etc.


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## Caddyswag (Dec 18, 2014)

I use letter pairs for corners and audio for edges, I cant seem to make up good letter pairs that make a strong image, can anyone give me a list, or some tips??


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## Hssandwich (Dec 18, 2014)

Llama llama duck


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## penguinz7 (Dec 19, 2014)

https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/List_of_letter_pairs


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## Berkmann18 (Dec 24, 2014)

Harris, yes Tyson use numbers for the memo because as he said, he is good at memorizing numbers


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## Chog (Oct 23, 2015)

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this particular method yet but what's really helping me right now is naming one face of stickers with nouns, another with verbs, another with adjectives, one with weather conditions, etc. It's making it very easy to create memorable sentences and stories.

I don't base them off letter pairs or color pairs or anything like that either, just assigned a word to a location on a face. This was easier for me than trying to come up with things that matched letter pairs or color pairs and whatnot.


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## kamilprzyb (Oct 23, 2015)

I created a system by naming every situation of 2 stickers in this way:
Every pair wchich first sticker is UB is a colour (so I have 20 colours)
UL - characters from video games, LD - items from video games etc.
And in my opinion the best images are people (more than 50% of my images) and items.
Adjectives are quite ok, but they need to be very characteristical and there can't be too many of them. The same with verbs
In general *More characteristical images = better memo*
I discovered that the best images are my teachers from the past, characters from cartoons that I watched as a kid and famous people (Vladimir Putin for example) 

That's my experience with memory system, I hope that it will somehow help you


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## DELToS (Oct 23, 2015)

I like the roman rooms method


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## Hari (Oct 24, 2015)

kamilprzyb said:


> I created a system by naming every situation of 2 stickers in this way:
> Every pair wchich first sticker is UB is a colour (so I have 20 colours)
> UL - characters from video games, LD - items from video games etc.
> And in my opinion the best images are people (more than 50% of my images) and items.
> ...



How long did it take you to develop this system? I want to do something similar but with letter pairs to speed up my MBLD memo.


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## kamilprzyb (Oct 24, 2015)

I had few long breaks while making the system + I was very lazy so it took me few months.
Maskow said that it's at least one week of hard work. But it's worth it.
It takes a lot of time because it's over 400 images, and you need to choose the best images.
I have 22 groups of 20 images + images for twists + images for 1 last target(when there's a parity)
Of course you can do it with lettet pairs, the idea is just to have always the same image for a pair
But keep in mind to use mostly people and items in your system, it will be easier to connect them with other images. Adjectives and verbs I use very characteristical and easy to imagine ones like juggling or fat.


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## MattMcConaha (Nov 8, 2015)

I'm fearing the big 500 right now. I haven't done BLD in a while, but I always used to just assign each edge piece as its location on the cube using conventional cube notation. So L in Speffz would be FD and V would be DF. But then you end up using letter pairs for just one piece instead of for two pieces. You might as well just use Speffz and not use letter pairs.
So I guess now I have to start learning Speffz notation.


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## Chrizzl (Aug 12, 2016)

Yesterday I had my first succes with 3x3 blindfolded, and so far I have not been able to do it again. I used Speffz like all of you guys seem to do. With Speffz I find it hard to create words because some letter pairs are annoying. Right now I am thinking about recalling the stickers by linking them to objects/persons. 
Why is Speffz so powerful/ widely used? Why wouldn't my proposal work just as well?


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## tseitsei (Aug 12, 2016)

Chrizzl said:


> Yesterday I had my first succes with 3x3 blindfolded, and so far I have not been able to do it again. I used Speffz like all of you guys seem to do. With Speffz I find it hard to create words because some letter pairs are annoying. Right now I am thinking about recalling the stickers by linking them to objects/persons.
> Why is Speffz so powerful/ widely used? Why wouldn't my proposal work just as well?


If you have person and action for every possible combination of 2 consecutive target then I think that would work just as well.
Because you could memorize ABCD like "person A doing action B and person C doing action D"

The reason "Speffz" (or memoing with letter pairs) is so common is that it is so easy to get in to. You can just make up words on the fly and don't need to prememorize a list of four hundred and something persons and actions before you can use it (like you would have to do if you use the method you described).

You could just make it so that one person/action means only 1 target for you but then you would have to memorize twice as much info as in speffz since in speffz you code 2 targets in a single word.

I would advice you to continue using letter pairs and prememorize good words/images for the letter pairs you find difficult. It doesnt even have to be directly related to those letters as long as you remember what targets it corresponds to. For example I use SuperMan for XM and also some other superheroes for X since X is a difficult letter.

TLDR;
Your suggestion works just as well but it takes a lot of prememorizing before you can really use it.


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## Chrizzl (Aug 12, 2016)

tseitsei said:


> If you have person and action for every possible combination of 2 consecutive target then I think that would work just as well.
> Because you could memorize ABCD like "person A doing action B and person C doing action D"
> 
> The reason "Speffz" (or memoing with letter pairs) is so common is that it is so easy to get in to. You can just make up words on the fly and don't need to prememorize a list of four hundred and something persons and actions before you can use it (like you would have to do if you use the method you described).
> ...


Thanks a lot for your reply!
I think I am going to create persons and actions for single targets first. My memo will get quite long then but I don't think thats a problem for me since I am kinda familiar with memory palaces. If I succeed with this I will report it here


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## tseitsei (Aug 12, 2016)

Chrizzl said:


> Thanks a lot for your reply!
> I think I am going to create persons and actions for single targets first. My memo will get quite long then but I don't think thats a problem for me since I am kinda familiar with memory palaces. If I succeed with this I will report it here


It will be a huge problem if you want to get even remotely fast...

You will be memoing twice as much information and that will obviously take more time. But if you just want a success then that is probably going to work


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## Chrizzl (Aug 12, 2016)

tseitsei said:


> It will be a huge problem if you want to get even remotely fast...
> 
> You will be memoing twice as much information and that will obviously take more time. But if you just want a success then that is probably going to work



Yeah I just want a succes in the first place, but if I can consistently get successes I am stuck with an useless method. Therefore I will have some looking at Speffz again and keep trying that... Thanks alot for helping me.


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## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2016)

Chrizzl said:


> Yeah I just want a succes in the first place, but if I can consistently get successes I am stuck with an useless method. Therefore I will have some looking at Speffz again and keep trying that... Thanks alot for helping me.


Yeah I agree with the last comment. If you think you will want to continue and progress with BLD, invest the time to learn good methods and techniques early. Otherwise it will be harder to switch later.


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## JanW (Aug 13, 2016)

Chrizzl said:


> I think I am going to create persons and actions for single targets first. My memo will get quite long then but I don't think thats a problem for me since I am kinda familiar with memory palaces. If I succeed with this I will report it here


Another problem with this is that you'd have a much smaller pool of persons/actions. If you do several solves in one session, every solve is likely to have 5-6 same persons/actions in edge memo as your previous solve, only in different order. This would easily confuse your memo. The more unique each memo, the better.

For speffz you only really need to come up with a word for each letter pair once. Think through your letters and choose to use those that fit your language the best, in case there are extra letters in your language. Adjustments to letter scheme can also be made to include letters that otherwise wouldn't be used as part of your buffer. I, for example, have D in the place of Q, because D is my buffer sticker for both corners and edges (I use a slightly different lettering scheme from speffz).


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## oneshot (Oct 1, 2016)

Anyone have trouble "forgetting" their memo's? I have trouble "cleaning out" my rooms.


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## Altha (Oct 1, 2016)

oneshot said:


> Anyone have trouble "forgetting" their memo's? I have trouble "cleaning out" my rooms.


For 3bld, even tho I use images for long term memo, I usually forget it by next solve no problem, as for multi/4bld/5bld, I'm not really an expect but I think you should make sure that you have plenty of rooms to use and preferably not use the same one until the following day.


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## xchippy (Oct 1, 2016)

Does anyone know how Maskow uses short term memo? Does he just not have any system and do his numbers and math symbols?


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## kamilprzyb (Oct 1, 2016)

For corners: every sticker has a symbol, and he speaks them as fast as possible
It looks like 24DG+5X


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## GenTheThief (Oct 28, 2016)

I'm having trouble figuring out where to put stuff in my rooms for MBLD. I memo c/e and then execute e/c for 3BLD and MBLD.
I have 5 rooms so far, and can fit 2 cubes in each room.
The trouble is, when I put my corners in first and my edges second in a cw fashion, when I execute the cube, I half to walk halfway through the room before I can start executing.
If I put my corners in first, halfway through the room and put my edges at the beginning of the room, I have a nicer execution, but my memo is a little weird.

How do you guys get around this? Should I start memoing e/c for MBLD?


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## Altha (Oct 28, 2016)

GenTheThief said:


> Should I start memoing e/c for MBLD?


Yep, that or have both memo and exec be c/e, whatever is more comfortable for you.


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## Ollie (Oct 28, 2016)

GenTheThief said:


> I'm having trouble figuring out where to put stuff in my rooms for MBLD. I memo c/e and then execute e/c for 3BLD and MBLD.
> I have 5 rooms so far, and can fit 2 cubes in each room.
> The trouble is, when I put my corners in first and my edges second in a cw fashion, when I execute the cube, I half to walk halfway through the room before I can start executing.
> If I put my corners in first, halfway through the room and put my edges at the beginning of the room, I have a nicer execution, but my memo is a little weird.
> ...



Memo one cube per room, place the edge memo in the middle of the room and the corner memo in the corners/sides of the room. That way you're mentally walking and looking into the center (and most part) for edge execution.


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## mark49152 (Oct 28, 2016)

GenTheThief said:


> Should I start memoing e/c for MBLD?


I do the same as you for 3BLD, so memo corners visual, edges audio, then execute edges first.

For MBLD I memo in execution order. Firstly for the reason you gave. Secondly, because memoing edges first reminds me to do them as images not audio.


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## GenTheThief (Oct 28, 2016)

Thanks for the replies.
I guess I'll start e/c memo.

@Ollie Perhaps I misspoke a little: I know how to put things in my rooms, but I was having trouble putting things in order.
I have 4 edges in 1 location, for three locations. 4 corners in 1 location, for 2 locations. I can those 5 locations on 1 side of a room, and another cube on the other side. I don't think putting all the edges in the middle of a room would work for me.


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## Altha (Oct 29, 2016)

Would full audio be the optimal 3bld memo method?


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## Heart_Johnson (Oct 30, 2016)

Altha said:


> Would full audio be the optimal 3bld memo method?


Used it in the past, i simply couldnt retain everything fast enough. I started 3bld on full audio and managed to get a 1:02 a few years ago, but i opted out. I did all the way up to 6bld attempts with it, and it just wasnt easily retainable unless you're weird


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## newtonbase (Oct 30, 2016)

Altha said:


> Would full audio be the optimal 3bld memo method?


It's quick but for me it doesn't last long enough to get OP corners done on top of edges.


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## Altha (Oct 30, 2016)

Heart_Johnson said:


> I did all the way up to 6bld attempts with it


You did 6bld attempts with full audio?


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## mark49152 (Oct 31, 2016)

Altha said:


> You did 6bld attempts with full audio?


@CHJ does MBLD with full audio, although from the way he describes it, it's maybe more like sentences.


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## newtonbase (Oct 31, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> @CHJ does MBLD with full audio, although from the way he describes it, it's maybe more like sentences.


I like watching him memo. He looks like he's dancing . I didn't know he uses audio.


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## FastCubeMaster (Oct 31, 2016)

Nat from Nat Cubes does MBLD with full audio and normal blind with audio


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## Repsela (Jan 13, 2017)

I don't know if my question is already posted by someone. It's about memo in MBLD. How many images cubers put in every location for each cube? For example i tried on room for all edges (then six or seven images) and one room for all corners ( four about for each room). then two rooms for each cube memorized. I'd like to know what do the best multibld cubers who memorize much cubes i mean more than 20... thank you


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk


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## GenTheThief (Jan 13, 2017)

Repsela said:


> I don't know if my question is already posted by someone. It's about memo in MBLD. How many images cubers put in every location for each cube? For example i tried on room for all edges (then six or seven images) and one room for all corners ( four about for each room). then two rooms for each cube memorized. I'd like to know what do the best multibld cubers who memorize much cubes i mean more than 20... thank you
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk



The way I do it, I have 10 locations per room, fit 4 pieces per location, and two cubes per room (8c 12e x 2 = 40).
I am certainly not world class as the largest attempt I've done is only 7, but the main difference (I think?) is the speed at which you can memo. Techniques are very similar.
I learned from


Spoiler: Noah Arthur's Tutorial










He has an official 18/19 MBLD.


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## Repsela (Jan 15, 2017)

GenTheThief said:


> The way I do it, I have 10 locations per room, fit 4 pieces per location, and two cubes per room (8c 12e x 2 = 40).
> I am certainly not world class as the largest attempt I've done is only 7, but the main difference (I think?) is the speed at which you can memo. Techniques are very similar.
> I learned from
> 
> ...



But the images are visualized in one big scene? I mean: first location one big scene for first cube's edges then another big scene for first cube's corners and the same for the second cube all in the first location? edges image are about six and for corners are about four. 


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Fábio De'Rose (Mar 31, 2017)

D


Repsela said:


> But the images are visualized in one big scene? I mean: first location one big scene for first cube's edges then another big scene for first cube's corners and the same for the second cube all in the first location? edges image are about six and for corners are about four.
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk



Disclaimer: I'm a MBLD Noob. Now that we put that out of the way... 

It's important to have your Rooms well organized, IMO. That means you can "walk through" each room and "pick up" each image, one at a time without cluttering the "big picture", if you know what I mean.

Instead of one big scene full of stuff happening at once, personally I prefer to have each one of my Rooms organized in a way that I can walk through it and look at each spot individually, one at a time. As I walk forward I can focus on the smaller pieces of the full act. 

I also have transitional places, such as stairs, which help me progress through different environments in very easy ways. And naturally I can place images there, so nothing gets too cluttered in the end and I have spread everything nicely along two rooms or more, if needed.


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## newtonbase (Mar 31, 2017)

Does anyone else have locations that just don't work? 
My rooms are all in my actual house. The 2nd room I use has shelving on both sides so I put edges on the left and corners on the right but I have terrible problems with the corners and have to review several times.


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## Riddler97 (Mar 31, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Does anyone else have locations that just don't work?



Sometimes if my locations are too similar it's harder to recall the image, like when I memo wings for BigBLD I always put them in the same room, but I split them up into a few smaller images so they're easier to remember. Although, since they're all in the same room, my location for the first small image is very similar to the second, so I always find myself struggling to recall the second image.

Maybe you should try moving things around a bit more, so instead of keeping everything on the shelves have edges on the shelf and then corners on the floor or something.

I'm no expert, it's just a thought.


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## newtonbase (Mar 31, 2017)

Riddler97 said:


> Maybe you should try moving things around a bit more, so instead of keeping everything on the shelves have edges on the shelf and then corners on the floor or something.
> 
> I'm no expert, it's just a thought.


I'm wondering if it might be because the shelves aren't visible when I walk into the room. I have to turn to see them. There is a nice space on the floor so I'll try that next time. Thanks.


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## mark49152 (Mar 31, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'm wondering if it might be because the shelves aren't visible when I walk into the room. I have to turn to see them. There is a nice space on the floor so I'll try that next time. Thanks.


Yeah I try to use distinct locations. In some cases I avoid obvious big ones like the second sofa in favour of something more dissimilar like a windowsill or inside a cupboard.


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## newtonbase (Mar 31, 2017)

mark49152 said:


> Yeah I try to use distinct locations. In some cases I avoid obvious big ones like the second sofa in favour of something more dissimilar like a windowsill or inside a cupboard.


I don't really have an issue with the locations being similar as I never confuse them I just keep drawing a blank on this one.


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## Fábio De'Rose (Mar 31, 2017)

Could this be happening because you're using two sets of shelves on the same room? Even though they're opposite to each other, I can imagine how it could be similar to having two chairs, for example. Even though you _know_ they're two distinct objects, when it comes to the big picture your mind could play tricks on you.


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## newtonbase (Mar 31, 2017)

Fábio De'Rose said:


> Could this be happening because you're using two sets of shelves on the same room? Even though they're opposite to each other, I can imagine how it could be similar to having two chairs, for example. Even though you _know_ they're two distinct objects, when it comes to the big picture your mind could play tricks on you.


Possibly but I have other rooms with locations that are similar such as 2 counter tops in my kitchen and the 2 ends of the floor in my hallway. 
Brains are funny things.


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## arquillian (Jul 7, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Does anyone else have locations that just don't work?
> My rooms are all in my actual house. The 2nd room I use has shelving on both sides so I put edges on the left and corners on the right but I have terrible problems with the corners and have to review several times.


Try linking the last edge and the first corner targets. Eliminates most recall pauses.
The way I memo for multi is 1 cube per location, two locations per room. I try to distill every cube to a scene (not an image, strictly speaking). Or two mini-scenes for edges and corners. idk, I've never had trouble distinguishing between edge and corner memo.


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## newtonbase (Jul 7, 2017)

arquillian said:


> Try linking the last edge and the first corner targets. Eliminates most recall pauses.
> The way I memo for multi is 1 cube per location, two locations per room. I try to distill every cube to a scene (not an image, strictly speaking). Or two mini-scenes for edges and corners. idk, I've never had trouble distinguishing between edge and corner memo.


It's been a while but I realised that the issue with that location was that there was no obvious front so I didn't know where to start. Ignoring the shelving and using the floor instead has fixed it.


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## theawesomecuber (Aug 11, 2017)

I'm very motivated to improve in BLD, and I think that currently, my slowest step is memorization of the edges.

I use audio memory for the edges and have a lot of issues with retaining 12+ letters through audio pairs. I'm not really seeing much improvement after practicing, and it's not getting easier to remember it all.

I see three options for me that I'm willing to do. First, I could keep at it and hope it gets easier and faster. Many fast people do this, so in theory, I should be able too, with enough practice. Secondly, I could memorize a list of one syllable words, like Chris Hardwick does. I think this would result in better retention, but doing this is a lot of work that I'm not sure I'm up to do, especially while I'm busy writing up my letter pair to image list. And finally, I was working on a system to encode more letters into one syllable. I really like linguistics and therefore I have a pretty good understanding of how syllables and sounds are formed. I couldn't quite figure out how to pack 4 letters in one syllable though. I could make a system to encode 3 letters into a syllable, but that would get confusing as I currently use M2. With either of these, I would practically lose all my progress in familiarity with my letter scheme and encoding them into sounds, and this system would be very complex, assigning multiple sounds to each sticker depending on the part of the syllable. However, retaining the letters would be muuuuuch easier.

I'm most leaning towards option two, but I wanted to ask what other better people thought. Thanks!


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## newtonbase (Aug 11, 2017)

A word list will certainly help. Anki is a good method for practicing them. DeeDubb started a thread on audio pairs with some useful tips on switching out tricky letters etc. 
Do you practice tracing? The easier you find that then the more you can concentrate on memo.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 12, 2017)

I had the same problem with memoing edges with audio. I finally just got past it by memorizing single syllable images for all combinations. It really helped me lots.


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## sqAree (Aug 12, 2017)

Memo the first 8 edge targets with audio, and if there are more, just visualize where the sticker is (probably even faster than full audio if you don't forget the visual part of your memo).


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## theawesomecuber (Aug 12, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Anki is a good method for practicing them.


Oh believe me, I know . I've used anki to associate 2200 kanji to keywords and to learn the meaning of nearly 2000 Japanese vocab words, and I plan to use anki to associate letter pairs to images and images to commutators. I just am hesitant to add 400 cards that I might not really need. However, right now the consensus seems to be that a word list would help, so I will heavily consider it.


newtonbase said:


> Do you practice tracing? The easier you find that then the more you can concentrate on memo.


What do you mean? Do you just mean going through all the pieces in my edge cycles? Should I be thinking of the letters, but just not memorizing them?


sqAree said:


> Memo the first 8 edge targets with audio, and if there are more, just visualize where the sticker is (probably even faster than full audio if you don't forget the visual part of your memo).


Hmm, interesting, I'll try this out. I've never really tried visual memory before so I'll be bad, but in the long term this might be really good.

Thanks everyone!


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## Alex B71 (Aug 12, 2017)

theawesomecuber said:


> I'm very motivated to improve in BLD, and I think that currently, my slowest step is memorization of the edges.
> 
> I use audio memory for the edges and have a lot of issues with retaining 12+ letters through audio pairs. I'm not really seeing much improvement after practicing, and it's not getting easier to remember it all.
> 
> ...



I also have had this problem in the past, Here's what i do now.

I use a P.A.O system for corners (Can chuck locations in also if it is relevant and strengthens the image) and for edges i always do the first 8 with audio and the last ones (If any) with two fast words that don't need to make much sense, like DGOJ would be DoG OJ (Orange Juice or OJ Simpson). I also memo corner twists as a specific person for each corner and they are displayed a certain way depending on rotation direction, Edge flips are purely visual (I leave my fingers on the flips during the memo and just before dropping the blindfold i "Snapshot" where my fingers were).

Before i started doing this, about 2 months ago, i would use sentence memo for corners and full audio for edges with flips and twists being visual. My memo splits (according to the times i was getting just before switching) were 10-20 seconds for corners and 20-35 seconds for edges with somewhat poor accuracy, unless i was aiming for accuracy but then i would be going into the higher memo time.

Looking at today's session data i am getting 7 seconds for corners and 9-13 seconds for edges with some going over these and some going as low as sub-15 memo. But that seems to be the general area. Accuracy also increased quite dramatically a couple of days after switching but that was also the same day i decided to switch parity methods. 

The best thing i like about this is that when i'm doing the first 8 edges i can rehearse the corner memo quite easily at the same time and then when i am doing the last of the edges i can do a quick recall of the first 8 and then finally snapshot any flipped edges.

I don't know if this ramble helped at all but this is the way i have found that works best for me. P.A.O images for corners mean i can go as fast as i like and not worry about strengthening, but it did take about 2 months to make a full list and their's still some pairs that are not fluent.

Good luck, man!


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## theawesomecuber (Aug 12, 2017)

Alex B71 said:


> I also have had this problem in the past, Here's what i do now.
> 
> I use a P.A.O system for corners (Can chuck locations in also if it is relevant and strengthens the image) and for edges i always do the first 8 with audio and the last ones (If any) with two fast words that don't need to make much sense, like DGOJ would be DoG OJ (Orange Juice or OJ Simpson). I also memo corner twists as a specific person for each corner and they are displayed a certain way depending on rotation direction, Edge flips are purely visual (I leave my fingers on the flips during the memo and just before dropping the blindfold i "Snapshot" where my fingers were).
> 
> ...


I really like your strategy for edges. I think memorizing the first eight letters with audio and the rest with words (that critically, aren't necessarily one syllable, so that I wouldn't have to make a new list), would work very well for me. Or maybe I could do the first 4 targets with words and the rest with audio, I'll have to try them both out.

This does mean that I need to add more letters to my letter pair list, in order to accommodate the different buffer, which might be problematic. For example, for "X" I am often using "A" when I can't find an image that uses "X", which is fine since my buffer has "A". However, if I implement this, I would have to make sure not to confuse "A" with "X" pretending to be "A", if that makes sense. I mean this is something I'd have to do anyway if I wanted to get into bigger cubes BLD, which I think I will. (quick sidenote: I plan on using a UB buffer for when I switch to 3-style, which has my "A" letter, so this is a short term problem)

Thanks for ramble and for the luck!


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## Blindsighted (Aug 12, 2017)

Not that I would know but....
UF I think is faster at least that's what fast people say


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## theawesomecuber (Aug 12, 2017)

Blindsighted said:


> Not that I would know but....
> UF I think is faster at least that's what fast people say


This is completely off topic at this point, but my justification is that the commutators with UB are actually just as good as with UF, and my buffer for corner and my buffer for edge would be right next to each other, allowing for easier setups to 22LL cases if I ever decided to get super super serious about BLD.

Also, I really like the consistency of having my first letter in my lettering scheme be my buffer, no matter the type of piece.


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## Mastermind2368 (Aug 12, 2017)

I just found this now and am gonna share something that I did, I bet some people might use something like it, but whatever. When I first started BLD, to memo my first edge cycle I would replace the letters with the "1,2,3 1,2,3 drink." In Sia's song, chandelier. Hope it helped someone.


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## Alex B71 (Aug 12, 2017)

Mastermind2368 said:


> I just found this now and am gonna share something that I did, I bet some people might use something like it, but whatever. When I first started BLD, to memo my first edge cycle I would replace the letters with the "1,2,3 1,2,3 drink." In Sia's song, chandelier. Hope it helped someone.


Could you elaborate further on that? I have no idea what you mean.


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## Mastermind2368 (Aug 12, 2017)

Alex B71 said:


> Could you elaborate further on that? I have no idea what you mean.


Well I hope that you know the song "Chandelier." If not, then check it out here, 



 . When it says, "1,2,3 1,2,3 drink, I just sing my first edge cycle to the tune of the song when it says "1,2,3 1,2,3 drink, so I might sing, " X, Q, I, H, U, P, T." and have it in my head.


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## Alex B71 (Aug 12, 2017)

Mastermind2368 said:


> Well I hope that you know the song "Chandelier." If not, then check it out here,
> 
> 
> 
> . When it says, "1,2,3 1,2,3 drink, I just sing my first edge cycle to the tune of the song when it says "1,2,3 1,2,3 drink, so I might sing, " X, Q, I, H, U, P, T." and have it in my head.



Ahhh, i get it now. Making it a rhythmical thing. Yeah that's a useful thing to do aswell.


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## FastCubeMaster (Aug 13, 2017)

I'm not sure if this is good, but I visually memo the first 2 edges then audio the rest. 

Does full audio on edges improve much with practice? 
If so, I might put more time into it


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## newtonbase (Aug 13, 2017)

theawesomecuber said:


> What do you mean? Do you just mean going through all the pieces in my edge cycles? Should I be thinking of the letters, but just not memorizing them?


Yes. It is just working your way around the cube without memoing anything. It helps you identify pieces more quickly.


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## newtonbase (Aug 13, 2017)

FastCubeMaster said:


> Does full audio on edges improve much with practice?
> If so, I might put more time into it


Yes. You get quicker at choosing words and you learn more about your weak points such as sounds you may confuse.


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## FastCubeMaster (Aug 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> Yes. You get quicker at choosing words and you learn more about your weak points such as sounds you may confuse.


What about just sounding out letters? Do people find it easier choosing words?


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## newtonbase (Aug 13, 2017)

FastCubeMaster said:


> What about just sounding out letters? Do people find it easier choosing words?


I assume that you are still talking about pairs. Issues you can have are words sounding similar. For me KT is KaT. It would be easy to recall that as CaT if I didn't have a system that I know (CT is ChaT). 
If you mean sounding out the individual letters then you are doubling the amount you have to recall and it's harder to keep track of parity. Not recommended.


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## FastCubeMaster (Aug 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I assume that you are still talking about pairs. Issues you can have are words sounding similar. For me KT is KaT. It would be easy to recall that as CaT if I didn't have a system that I know (CT is ChaT).
> If you mean sounding out the individual letters then you are doubling the amount you have to recall and it's harder to keep track of parity. Not recommended.


No, I meant sounding out the individual letters, and I'm curious: why does it double the amount I have to recall? If you just say like "plskatinb" it can sometimes be very fast


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## CyanSandwich (Aug 13, 2017)

FastCubeMaster said:


> No, I meant sounding out the individual letters, and I'm curious: why does it double the amount I have to recall? If you just say like "plskatinb" it can sometimes be very fast


Sounding out individual letters is twice the amount of syllables to recall. It's definitely slower and makes things harder.

plskatinb = Pee Ell Ess Kay Ay Tee Eye En Bee
plskatinb = Pill Seek At In B

The 2nd one is much faster to encode and recall. But you also shouldn't stick completely to real words. Like you can just pronounce OB and VU how they're spelled.


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## FastCubeMaster (Aug 13, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> Sounding out individual letters is twice the amount of syllables to recall. It's definitely slower and makes things harder.
> 
> plskatinb = Pee Ell Ess Kay Ay Tee Eye En Bee
> plskatinb = Pill Seek At In B
> ...


Whoops, 'individual' may have been the wrong word for me to use. 
I was meaning sounding out each letter like in a word.
plskatinb is spelled literally the same as how it's pronounced in what I'm talking about. maybe: "Pl-uh-sk-at-inb" (not seperated for syllables).

Really, I thought this was how everyone did it and that's what everyone meant when they said audio edges (although I knew audio edges can be done in many different ways).

I average 1:30-1:40 but I'll try out the words and sounds combination


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## CyanSandwich (Aug 13, 2017)

FastCubeMaster said:


> Whoops, 'individual' may have been the wrong word for me to use.
> I was meaning sounding out each letter like in a word.
> plskatinb is spelled literally the same as how it's pronounced in what I'm talking about. maybe: "Pl-uh-sk-at-inb" (not seperated for syllables).
> 
> ...


Oh okay, I thought you might have meant that. That's basically what I/most people do. It's just that you've lumped more letters together.

If I saw plskatinb written down, yeah I would memo it as "pluh-skat-inb". But you wanna create the sounds as you go, at least when you start doing no review audio.

Essentially, if you want to pronounce plskatinb as it's written, you have to memo the whole letter string somehow, then convert it to audio.

Edit: You should also always memo in even chunks (whether in pairs, 4's, 6's) because it makes M2 easier, and it makes 3-cycles A LOT easier.


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## newtonbase (Aug 13, 2017)

FastCubeMaster said:


> Whoops, 'individual' may have been the wrong word for me to use.
> I was meaning sounding out each letter like in a word.
> plskatinb is spelled literally the same as how it's pronounced in what I'm talking about. maybe: "Pl-uh-sk-at-inb" (not seperated for syllables).
> 
> ...


That's audio but not strictly pairs. If it works for you then stick with it. Pairs should cut down on mistakes and help track parity though.


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## abunickabhi (Feb 8, 2018)

Mastermind2368 said:


> Well I hope that you know the song "Chandelier." If not, then check it out here,
> 
> 
> 
> . When it says, "1,2,3 1,2,3 drink, I just sing my first edge cycle to the tune of the song when it says "1,2,3 1,2,3 drink, so I might sing, " X, Q, I, H, U, P, T." and have it in my head.



Rhythm(Beats) is a very good concept.
It is just non-linear metronome, which can come handy, since we are memorising things that are distinct.


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## Mastermind2368 (Feb 8, 2018)

abunickabhi said:


> Rhythm(Beats) is a very good concept.
> It is just non-linear metronome, which can come handy, since we are memorising things that are distinct.


Lol I forgot all about that dumb method. Might try it again soon though.


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## abunickabhi (May 29, 2018)

New videos on Roman Room concept!


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## abunickabhi (May 29, 2018)

I will be making a bunch of videos like this!
Making Loci on the fly should be a thing.
It enhances our touring experience and presense of mind.


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## abunickabhi (Jul 15, 2018)

Making Loci on the fly should be a thing.
It enhances our touring experience and presense of mind.
Hope it helps!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 16, 2018)

Okay, I'm getting really frustrated with 3BLD now.

I switched to images for corners, audio for edges about a year ago (I had always done images for edges, audio for corners before.) Ever since I switched, I have found it almost impossibly difficult to put together and maintain audio for edges when it goes over 10 edges (5 pairs to memorize). Give me 14, and it's almost hopeless. 10 edges goes okay, but still is never as fast as my old method used to be. A few years ago, when I was in practice, I was able to memorize a whole cube in less than 30 seconds pretty consistently. Now, it's extremely rare that I go under 30 seconds to memorize, and I'm usually more like 45 or 50 seconds to memorize a cube, and if I have 14 edges to memorize, my memorization almost always takes more than a minute.

I'm wondering if this is just that I'm doing it wrong, or that I have a limitation to my audio memory that keeps me from being able to do it as fast as most other people. I admit that my audio memory is done with one syllable per edge pair. I tried to construct audio by combining more letters in a syllable, like I've seen that Noah Arthurs does, and like I know Brandon Satterstrom does, but I don't seem to be able to do that; I get horribly confused as I try to put them together and I never seem to succeed with that approach at all.

Is that the problem? Are there fast people who do audio edges with just 2 edges per syllable, or are all the fast people combining more edges per syllable? Do I simply have to go to 4 edges per syllable to make this work? Any pointers anyone could give to me to make this more successful?

I'm really becoming tempted at this point to go back to images for edges and audio for corners, since I was so much better that way. It's frustrating to have once been fairly regularly sub-1, but now be unable to get even close to a minute without a ridiculously easy scramble.


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## mark49152 (Jul 16, 2018)

@Mike Hughey : I had similar problems when I started audio edges. It take time and practice to build up audio capacity, speed and accuracy. One thing that really helped my 3BLD was starting audio centres for 4BLD. After practising 14-18 targets, even relatively slowly, it became much easier and faster to do just 10-14.


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## newtonbase (Jul 16, 2018)

I think 2 letters per syllable is fine. It's important to choose good distinct words to avoid confusion but what really helps me, especially with the longer memos is to use a rhythm. Something like one, *two, *three, *four... *five, *six, *seven, *eight. *Have you tried this?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 16, 2018)

newtonbase said:


> I think 2 letters per syllable is fine. It's important to choose good distinct words to avoid confusion but what really helps me, especially with the longer memos is to use a rhythm. Something like one, *two, *three, *four... *five, *six, *seven, *eight. *Have you tried this?


I have tried it (after previous people recommended it), but it doesn't seem to help. The rhythm just seems separate to the actual syllables to me. But I've pretty much just used an alternating rhythm, like your example - I haven't tried varying the rhythm between solves for variety, I suppose.

I can eventually get it to stick; it's just that it takes so horribly long to put it together and get it stuck. I have to admit - I haven't tried it, but 4BLD centers sounds just crazy to me. I'm guessing my times on 4BLD would increase from 6-7 minutes to 10+ minutes if I did that...

Maybe it's just that I underestimate the amount of practice required to get good at it. I would have thought my current total of probably around 1000 3BLD attempts I've tried with this method to be enough to start getting reasonable memo times. Perhaps it needs to be more on the order of 10,000?

Edit: I guess I should add - I have seen noticeable improvement over those 1000 or so attempts. It's just that I somehow expected to be making faster progress than this. I am now seeing a lot of sub-1:30 solves now, with sub-45 memo times; those were rare several hundred solves ago. And as I reported in another thread, I got a 1:00.74 single yesterday, which is the first time with this method and the first time in several years that I've gotten so close to a minute on a proper scramble. But that was with just 10 edges to memorize.


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## GarethBert11 (Jul 17, 2018)

Is there any tips to get faster at 3BLD memo? No matter how hard I tried, somehow sub-3 minutes is far from possible. Currently use Audio for corners and audio or sometimes use letter pairs for edges.


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## pinser (Jul 18, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> I have tried it (after previous people recommended it), but it doesn't seem to help. The rhythm just seems separate to the actual syllables to me. But I've pretty much just used an alternating rhythm, like your example - I haven't tried varying the rhythm between solves for variety, I suppose.
> 
> I can eventually get it to stick; it's just that it takes so horribly long to put it together and get it stuck. I have to admit - I haven't tried it, but 4BLD centers sounds just crazy to me. I'm guessing my times on 4BLD would increase from 6-7 minutes to 10+ minutes if I did that...
> 
> ...


Don't get discouraged, audio is hard. It took me over 5000 solves before I got comfortable with it. It may help if you set certain rules for the phonemes (eg- "a" always sounds like the "a" in "father").



GarethBert11 said:


> Is there any tips to get faster at 3BLD memo? No matter how hard I tried, somehow sub-3 minutes is far from possible. Currently use Audio for corners and audio or sometimes use letter pairs for edges.


Is there anything in particular that you are struggling with (tracing, coming up with letter pairs, reviewing, etc)? Regardless, the main thing is to just keep doing solves.


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## FastCubeMaster (Jul 18, 2018)

Mike Hughey said:


> Okay, I'm getting really frustrated with 3BLD now.
> 
> I switched to images for corners, audio for edges about a year ago (I had always done images for edges, audio for corners before.) Ever since I switched, I have found it almost impossibly difficult to put together and maintain audio for edges when it goes over 10 edges (5 pairs to memorize). Give me 14, and it's almost hopeless. 10 edges goes okay, but still is never as fast as my old method used to be. A few years ago, when I was in practice, I was able to memorize a whole cube in less than 30 seconds pretty consistently. Now, it's extremely rare that I go under 30 seconds to memorize, and I'm usually more like 45 or 50 seconds to memorize a cube, and if I have 14 edges to memorize, my memorization almost always takes more than a minute.
> 
> ...


I haven't exactly read it all, but I had this problem as well, something I did to make it more manageable is to visualise the first 2 (or 4) edge targets and do the rest with audio.
I'm sure many people do this as well. The way I do it is trace and put my finger on 2 targets then audio the rest and then come back, immediately execute the targets my fingers are on then the rest of the audio.


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## Avoirpaspeur (Aug 29, 2018)

I have a memo question.

If you use "th" sound for Q letter for the audio letter-pair,
do you still use "th" for the image letter-pair?
Or you just use normal Q letter for image?

That confuse me a bit in terms of how my brain can transfer that letter.


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## TheGrayCuber (Aug 29, 2018)

Avoirpaspeur said:


> I have a memo question.
> 
> If you use "th" sound for Q letter for the audio letter-pair,
> do you still use "th" for the image letter-pair?
> ...



I use ‘th’ for Q in audio, and sometimes in images, but sometimes I use q. It just depends on the image. 

For example, I use quiver for QV and Q-Tip for QT, but Thor for QR and Thanos for QN. After enough practice you will just associate the letter pair to the image without having to remember why.


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## AvGalen (Aug 31, 2018)

Does anyone use multiple languages? I am currently using numbers for edges and letters for corners but I like letters better. I am thinking to use Dutch and English (almost the same level) or maybe Dutch and Japanese (motivation to extend my vocabulary). I have never spend the time for fixed images because blind isn't a priority for me, but I am thinking about slowly building up multiblind or trying bigcubes blind


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## lucarubik (Aug 31, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> Does anyone use multiple languages? I am currently using numbers for edges and letters for corners but I like letters better. I am thinking to use Dutch and English (almost the same level) or maybe Dutch and Japanese (motivation to extend my vocabulary). I have never spend the time for fixed images because blind isn't a priority for me, but I am thinking about slowly building up multiblind or trying bigcubes blind


i use some english words
its not good really its not horrible but it burns some brain power



Mike Hughey said:


> Okay, I'm getting really frustrated with 3BLD now.
> 
> I switched to images for corners, audio for edges about a year ago (I had always done images for edges, audio for corners before.) Ever since I switched, I have found it almost impossibly difficult to put together and maintain audio for edges when it goes over 10 edges (5 pairs to memorize). Give me 14, and it's almost hopeless. 10 edges goes okay, but still is never as fast as my old method used to be. A few years ago, when I was in practice, I was able to memorize a whole cube in less than 30 seconds pretty consistently. Now, it's extremely rare that I go under 30 seconds to memorize, and I'm usually more like 45 or 50 seconds to memorize a cube, and if I have 14 edges to memorize, my memorization almost always takes more than a minute.
> 
> ...


im confortable with audio edges for the most part but ill admit sometimes i feel overwhelmed
genetics are an important factor here for sure but
well these are kind of desperate meassures but you can try to group the sounds by similarity, so you have less chances to get similar sounding pairs in the same scramble
if changing your letter scheme is too drastic you can try using 10 vowels see if you like it, its super low risk, no commitment needed. i really like it
i use A as auxiliar vowel and A is a sound (two actually) so there is some ambiguety, but its fine
And what newtonbase said is a great tip aswell
Ive also considered but not really tried using something extra to have more sounds and therefore less confusing ones, like tapping your foot or something
while memoing you can try to go for well chained sounds when breaking into cycles but im guessing you already do that
and.. what was i thinking? oh yeah you can try to yolo the memo for a while and see what happens, you might surprise yourself. you are not supposed to repeat the cycle at all anyway so
if you don't mess up and have to "unmemorize" stuff you will be doing much better than if you do, aswell as if you track fast (but not too fast)


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## cubeshepherd (Sep 1, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> Does anyone use multiple languages? I am currently using numbers for edges and letters for corners but I like letters better. I am thinking to use Dutch and English (almost the same level) or maybe Dutch and Japanese (motivation to extend my vocabulary). I have never spend the time for fixed images because blind isn't a priority for me, but I am thinking about slowly building up multiblind or trying bigcubes blind


Every once and a while I will use German, since that is the other language that I know, but the only times I use that is if I want to add variety to my memo when I am doing 10+ MBLD or sometimes I use German for my corners on 4x4, and 5x5 BLD since that if course ins the last thing I solve, and for me sometimes having the corners in a different language helps me to remember whatever it is I memoed it with longer. Other then that I do not use German, although I think that I will try a few different things now that I am thinking about it : )


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## Avoirpaspeur (Sep 13, 2018)

When I was working on my memo,
I still find V crashing with F sound a lot.
How do you guys fix it?
I saw quite some people don't assign a new letter/sound to replace V.

I appreciate any help.
Thanks.


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## JG Cubing (Feb 18, 2019)

Yesterday a couple of my friends saw me solve a 3x3 blindfolded, which they had never seen before. One of them was asking me about memorization and if I'm able to utilize the same techniques I use for cubing while studying. Essentially, can I memorize school work, like I would memorize a cube so that I could prepare for a test or exam. Now obviously 3BLD is short term memory and wouldn't exactly be effective like this, but when doing 4BLD or MBLD attempts, my memorization does tend to be long term and stick with me for a long time. Due to the specific nature of memorizing a cube (using letter pairs), it had me thinking if there was a way to put this to use in school. Have any of you utilized your memory techniques in high school or college/university? If you have or have considered it, how do you think you could memorize formulas or definitions in a similar way to a cube? I think this could be extremely useful for school if there was a good way to implement it.


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## CraZZ CFOP (Mar 7, 2019)

When I take the AMC 10, which is a math competition, I can remember the answers and solutions for each problem that I solve fairly easily. Maybe I should number each edge/corner with a number.


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## TheGrayCuber (Mar 7, 2019)

CraZZ CFOP said:


> When I take the AMC 10, which is a math competition, I can remember the answers and solutions for each problem that I solve fairly easily. Maybe I should number each edge/corner with a number.



Ultimately you should do whatever feels the most comfortable for you, since everyone is different. However, I think that letters are better than numbers for most people. The strongest piece of evidence is the existence of the Major and Dominic Systems, which convert numbers to letters to make them easier to memorize. If numbers were the better method then those systems would not have such a large following. But of course if you want to use numbers go ahead, it probably won’t make a huge difference unless you do big/multi bld.


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## abunickabhi (Jan 16, 2021)

I feel memorization methods in cubing have been a tad different from the memory sports.

It is good to see how letter pair system has proven to be so successful over the years, and making sentences using letter pairs or using a PAO structure for letter pairs is the go-to way of encode cube targets, be it 3BLD or 4BLD or multi.

https://forum.artofmemory.com/c/blindfolded-speed-cubing/14 The memory world also tries a bit of blindsolving from time to time, since they do notice some similarity between their methods and the method we use. But there is an extra level of difficulty in blindsolving where we also have to trace the cube and execute the algs, when having the memo at the back of our head.

I feel having bigger systems will be the key for the next decade in blindsolving. Personally, I started the project of making letter quads in late 2016, and have gotten a bit decent with it now. But it takes a lot of work for letter quads to be as fluent as letter pairs.

MBLD is definitely the event which is closely related to memory sports, and a lot of new techniques that they use, say for 1 hour cards, can be transferred over to MBLD.


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## Straniz33 (Feb 10, 2021)

I've been trying to research memorization techniques in order to improve
my times and have been considering transitioning to PAO from regular letter pairs. I think it would alleviate some
issues I've had with regular letter pairs, for instance remembering the correct order of the words. Is there any particular downsides to it (besides that it would take some time to learn)?

Currently I just make up words (mostly nouns and people) for every letter combination and then integrate these with each other into one picture, with around 3-4 loci per 3x3.

It seems like PAO is far less popular in the cubing community, so I would be interested in hearing what you guys think.


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## Keroma12 (Feb 10, 2021)

Straniz33 said:


> I've been trying to research memorization techniques in order to improve
> my times and have been considering transitioning to PAO from regular letter pairs. I think it would alleviate some
> issues I've had with regular letter pairs, for instance remembering the correct order of the words. Is there any particular downsides to it (besides that it would take some time to learn)?
> 
> ...



I often had trouble recalling people in PAO, and I've had other cubers tell me the same. I think it can work well, but it's difficult. Imagining how the person would react to what they're doing is much more helpful than just picturing them doing it.

(The following is more geared towards multi than 3Bld, but applies to both.)
I'm more flexible these days, and usually end up using PAOAOAOAO... or something close to that, for each cube. This way an attempt doesn't have too many people. Though if I forget something, it's still usually a person.
If I were starting again, I might just use myself (or some other default person) for every cube and have them do a sequence of AOAO..., which would require 2/3rds of the work to setup. Even if you only have actions for ~75% of pairs, that can still work alright (just do the action to 2 objects at once or in a row).
Either of these approaches is very helpful for getting the order of words correct; I've only made that mistake ~2 times in the past year. Or you can just come up with a bunch of rules to help remember order (for example: the first word is always on top of/outside the second word, etc.).


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## abunickabhi (Feb 11, 2021)

Straniz33 said:


> I've been trying to research memorization techniques in order to improve
> my times and have been considering transitioning to PAO from regular letter pairs. I think it would alleviate some
> issues I've had with regular letter pairs, for instance remembering the correct order of the words. Is there any particular downsides to it (besides that it would take some time to learn)?
> 
> ...


Its true that PAO is not used by that many BLDers.
Making up words on the spot is not the best strategy. I guess you make a detailed sheet of letter pairs or PAO letter pairs.

Personally, I have a personalised letter quads sheets that I have been maintaining since 2016 (126k cases of LQs for most of piece types on 3x3,4x4 (4BLD), 5x5(5BLD)). I used letter pairs since 2014 and got fluent with it, but I am investing my time with LQ.


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## Straniz33 (Feb 11, 2021)

abunickabhi said:


> Its true that PAO is not used by that many BLDers.
> Making up words on the spot is not the best strategy. I guess you make a detailed sheet of letter pairs or PAO letter pairs.
> 
> Personally, I have a personalised letter quads sheets that I have been maintaining since 2016 (126k cases of LQs for most of piece types on 3x3,4x4 (4BLD), 5x5(5BLD)). I used letter pairs since 2014 and got fluent with it, but I am investing my time with LQ.



Yeah, I currently maintain a consistent list for letter pairs. I'll be making one for PAO as well if I switch.
I guess the main reason why most people don't use PAO is because it's more complicated, and knowing over 500 different people is also not easy. I do feel though that if one gets through these hurdles It'll offer an advantage over regular letter pairs. Perhaps I'm a little bit optimistic though 
Do you think I should give it a try, or is it just waste of time? Obviously a very subject question, but interested nonetheless.

LQs are a whole different beast though, I applaud you for your dedication!


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## abunickabhi (Feb 11, 2021)

Straniz33 said:


> Yeah, I currently maintain a consistent list for letter pairs. I'll be making one for PAO as well if I switch.
> I guess the main reason why most people don't use PAO is because it's more complicated, and knowing over 500 different people is also not easy. I do feel though that if one gets through these hurdles It'll offer an advantage over regular letter pairs. Perhaps I'm a little bit optimistic though
> Do you think I should give it a try, or is it just waste of time? Obviously a very subject question, but interested nonetheless.
> 
> LQs are a whole different beast though, I applaud you for your dedication!


I think you should definitely give PAO system a try.


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## DNF_Cuber (Feb 11, 2021)

Straniz33 said:


> Yeah, I currently maintain a consistent list for letter pairs. I'll be making one for PAO as well if I switch.
> I guess the main reason why most people don't use PAO is because it's more complicated, and knowing over 500 different people is also not easy. I do feel though that if one gets through these hurdles It'll offer an advantage over regular letter pairs. Perhaps I'm a little bit optimistic though
> Do you think I should give it a try, or is it just waste of time? Obviously a very subject question, but interested nonetheless.
> 
> LQs are a whole different beast though, I applaud you for your dedication!


500 actions are probably harder.


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## abunickabhi (May 15, 2021)

Really good tutorial made by John Louis sir on memory!
He was the one of the most experienced personality in memory championship and early WCA scenes.


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## Zagros (Jun 28, 2021)

don't know if this is a commonly used strategy but i always associate my corner memorization with an action during 3bld, for example on a solve i might tense my left knee repeatedly while tracing corners, then i trace edges, solve edges, and when i need to recall corners, i tense my left knee to remember.


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## abunickabhi (Feb 5, 2022)

80 minutes of memo explanation by Elliot. Really liked his music analogies to improve memo.


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