# worth making a list?



## happa95 (Jan 13, 2009)

I was wondering... should i make a list like chris of the words i use for BLD. I use a lettering system and make up words on the go. However, it takes a while so I was thinking that maybe if i made a list of all ~500 words and practiced them, it would be better. 

Thanks in advance! 

btw, there's been like NO movement in the BLD forum recently. I'm glad I could start it up a bit again.


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## tim (Jan 13, 2009)

You already gave the answer: It's faster .


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## happa95 (Jan 13, 2009)

oops, i meant, would it be better? hahahaha


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## F.P. (Jan 14, 2009)

A lot faster if you practice it.


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## byu (Jan 14, 2009)

I tried making a list once, I got to like the 10th one, and gave up because it was taking too long. After seeing this, perhaps I should retry. I'm going to now.

(Yay! This is my 100th post!)


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## happa95 (Jan 14, 2009)

byu said:


> I tried making a list once, I got to like the 10th one, and gave up because it was taking too long. After seeing this, perhaps I should retry. I'm going to now.
> 
> (Yay! This is my 100th post!)



haha this is my 101st! I WIN!


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## tim (Jan 14, 2009)

byu said:


> I tried making a list once, I got to like the 10th one, and gave up because it was taking too long. After seeing this, perhaps I should retry. I'm going to now.
> 
> (Yay! This is my 100th post!)



You just need about 50 words. Go for it!


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## happa95 (Jan 14, 2009)

tim said:


> byu said:
> 
> 
> > I tried making a list once, I got to like the 10th one, and gave up because it was taking too long. After seeing this, perhaps I should retry. I'm going to now.
> ...



50? Isn't it 500?!


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## tim (Jan 14, 2009)

happa95 said:


> tim said:
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> 
> > byu said:
> ...



Yeah, depends on your system.


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## happa95 (Jan 14, 2009)

tim said:


> happa95 said:
> 
> 
> > tim said:
> ...



lol. Okay then. But what system would only need 50?


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## byu (Jan 14, 2009)

My system requires a pair for each letter A-L, so that would be
AA
AB
...
LK
LL

I don't know how many that is. It's probably a simple computation, but I'm not sure. would it be 12x12 = 144?


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## happa95 (Jan 14, 2009)

damnit, why so few? why does only go to L? Are you using 3OP?


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## byu (Jan 14, 2009)

I don't use 3OP, I use two cycles, I don't know the name of the method, but it uses T permutations for permutation of corners and edges, and that's all I can really describe about it, so I memorize in pairs of two, and the highest an edge will go to is 12, since there are 12 edges, and that's L.

I'm working on my words, but I'm stuck with EB. I've never had to do EB before in a BLD solve, so I've never had to come up with a word for it. But I can't think of one.


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## cookingfat (Jan 14, 2009)

byu said:


> I don't use 3OP, I use two cycles, I don't know the name of the method, but it uses T permutations for permutation of corners and edges, and that's all I can really describe about it, so I memorize in pairs of two, and the highest an edge will go to is 12, since there are 12 edges, and that's L.
> 
> I'm working on my words, but I'm stuck with EB. I've never had to do EB before in a BLD solve, so I've never had to come up with a word for it. But I can't think of one.



I'd use Ebony and think of black piano keys


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## not_kevin (Jan 14, 2009)

byu said:


> I don't use 3OP, I use two cycles, I don't know the name of the method, but it uses T permutations for permutation of corners and edges, and that's all I can really describe about it, so I memorize in pairs of two, *and the highest an edge will go to is 12, since there are 12 edges, and that's L.*



Although that's true, do you take orientation into account separately? That's what most people are trying to glean by asking if you use 3OP, I think.



byu said:


> I'm working on my words, but I'm stuck with EB. I've never had to do EB before in a BLD solve, so I've never had to come up with a word for it. But I can't think of one.



If you've been cursed by others with Twilight, you could use "Edward bites"...


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## qqwref (Jan 14, 2009)

byu said:


> 'm working on my words, but I'm stuck with EB. I've never had to do EB before in a BLD solve, so I've never had to come up with a word for it. But I can't think of one.



How about the Easter Bunny?


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## byu (Jan 14, 2009)

I do orientation and permutation separately


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## joey (Jan 14, 2009)

byu said:


> I do orientation and permutation separately



You use 2-cycles and orient/permute seperatly.... that sucks.


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## happa95 (Jan 15, 2009)

joey said:


> byu said:
> 
> 
> > I do orientation and permutation separately
> ...



agreed. Either do M2, classic pochmann, or some other 2-cycle method, or do 3OP. the reason 2-cycle methods are effective is that even though they sometimes have a lot of moves, they combine orientation and permutation, or rather skip having to think of orientation at all. If you do orientation as well as 2-cycles, you're pretty much just making it harder on yourself.


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## martijn_cube (Jan 15, 2009)

I made a list of all my letter combinations, and came to 510 pairs. But i'm thinking of making more then 1 word for the same letter-pairs. In a way you can make better sentences. But it will be a big job making/knowing all the words  But i think it can bennefit me in the future.
I want to read the cube 1 time and then know a sentence, wich is easy to remember.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 16, 2009)

Just to give some statistics, when I switched from making up images on the fly to a memorized list, I dropped 5 minutes on my 4x4x4 BLD times (from an average of about 20 minutes to an average of about 15 minutes), pretty much immediately. So it can really help. And my times dropped steadily as I was learning the list. It took about a month to create and memorize the list, and during that month my times dropped about a minute per week. I've never had such a fast improvement since then.


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## cookingfat (Jan 21, 2009)

Ok I really want to change my memorisation system for 3x3x3 edges. I use classic pochmann and currently use badmephisto's memo system, (GOng, YGnite, BRick etc) but I'm finding that the more solves I do, the more often I need to link the same 2 objects and because there are only 24 objects, they come up quite regularly together. 

I watched Eric Limeback's M2 tutorial, and although I don't feel I'm ready to switch to M2 for solving, I quite like his memo system which is assigning letters to the cube, so edges could go something like this > 

U M E S A O G Q B I L I 

Now, if I look at the list and solve under the table, I can recognise extremely quickly and recognition and execution is a lot quicker than my old method, however I need some way of actually memorising that list of letters. 

If I were to memorise a full list of letter pairs (but I wouldn't need to remember pairs that contain C or D as that is my buffer) it would be around 500 images, but the above edge memo would go something like >

Umbrella, Eastsheen, Aerosol, GQ mag, Billiards, Light

and then use a link/story method to remember them. 

I feel this would be a lot quicker, but remembering the list seems quite daunting as I printed off Chris' list (but I will probably adapt and change a lot of the words) and there are pages and pages of stuff. 

Can anyone say if they think I should carry on this way or can anyone suggest an easier way to remember the list of letters?


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 21, 2009)

cookingfat said:


> I feel this would be a lot quicker, but remembering the list seems quite daunting as I printed off Chris' list (but I will probably adapt and change a lot of the words) and there are pages and pages of stuff.
> 
> Can anyone say if they think I should carry on this way or can anyone suggest an easier way to remember the list of letters?



Yes, it is daunting. It took me about a month. I created a Word document, and started by pasting Chris's list into it. Then I went through one starting letter at a time and changed the words until they worked well for me. As I finished a letter, I started reciting the list as far as I knew it when driving to and from work, over and over again. By the time I finished editing the word list (I kept about 1/4 of Chris's images, and replaced the other 3/4 of the list), I had almost all of it memorized.

My average 4x4x4 BLD solve improved from 20 minutes to 15 minutes during this process. So it was definitely worth it to me. It is true that for me, one of the nicest benefits was that I didn't have the same images coming up over and over again.

So it's certainly not the only way to go (Tim Habermaas does better than me with your current method), but I can say that it was worth it to me.


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## cookingfat (Jan 21, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> cookingfat said:
> 
> 
> > I feel this would be a lot quicker, but remembering the list seems quite daunting as I printed off Chris' list (but I will probably adapt and change a lot of the words) and there are pages and pages of stuff.
> ...



Thanks for your input Mike, the bit I highlighted is the main reason for me wanting to change, there's only so many ways I can link Wig with Bone etc, and they just come up far too often. 

If I manage to do the whole list, which is possible because I am quite a determined person, then edges would be 5-7 images to remember as opposed to 10-14 images and also they wouldn't keep coming up on every solve. 

Yes I think I will carry on and make my own version of the list like you did, but a lot of Chris' images can stay because they are alright.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 21, 2009)

cookingfat said:


> Thanks for your input Mike, the bit I highlighted is the main reason for me wanting to change, there's only so many ways I can link Wig with Bone etc, and they just come up far too often.
> 
> If I manage to do the whole list, which is possible because I am quite a determined person, then edges would be 5-7 images to remember as opposed to 10-14 images and also they wouldn't keep coming up on every solve.
> 
> Yes I think I will carry on and make my own version of the list like you did, but a lot of Chris' images can stay because they are alright.



Another thing - there's no reason not to switch to using these images immediately. If you don't remember one from your list, just make one up on the fly. That's how I did it before I created the prememorized list.


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## Ellis (Jan 22, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> If you don't remember one from your list, just make one up on the fly.


And when you make one up on the fly, put it on the list after the solve. I think this is probably even better than just sitting down and writing out a full list. Say you do 5 solves and make up images on the spot and write down the image pairs after each solve. Thats 25-35 images that you made up without thinking very hard. You want something that comes to mind first in real practice.


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## cookingfat (Jan 22, 2009)

Mike I've tried doing that and it kinda works, I find the biggest pauses I have are actually thinking of an object for the letters I don't know. So once I've completed the list this should be much easier. 



Ellis said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't remember one from your list, just make one up on the fly.
> ...



Yes, I've actually been doing that as well, if I think of an object I don't know, I've just updated the list after the solve. 

At the moment I'm not doing many timed solves with this memo method until I get it fully down. I've memo'd 3 letters and their pairs so far, A, B and E. (plus the odd ones I make up) I'm getting my girlfriend to test me each night to see if I can remember the list.


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