# A collection of CxLL algs.



## Kenneth (Sep 13, 2008)

I have been working on pages in the wiki that will list algs for any type of CxLL (CLL, COLL and so on).

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/CxLL_Algorithms
http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/CxLL_Pi_U

The first link is the main page for CxLL and the second is my prototype page.

Next step will be to add the pages for all cases and then the pages are ready for use...

But before I do that I like to ask if there are any improvments I can do to the page. It is much easier to copy the prototype to the rest of the pages when it is OK than it is to change all pages afterwards if someone comes up with a good idéa.

Idéas?


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## Wacky (Sep 13, 2008)

Random, and possibly stupid, beginner comment: I like Roux but what gets me about CLL compared with OLL/PLL is how to identify which case it is easily. Is there anything like the "One bar, two bars" identification method like Ortega for the 2x2x2?

(Edit: What I meant to say was, identification methods will also be handy on the wiki)


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## Kenneth (Sep 13, 2008)

Yes, that's what's the "Description of the case" section is ment to be.

About bars, not for all cases but for U, T, Pi and H you can, or do use bars. If you look at this case image:

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Image:CxLL_T_F.jpg

Edit, I tried to embed the image but it did not work so I put the link instead.

You see one bar of blue at the Urb and Ulb stickers and another bar at the urF and ulF having opposite coloured stickers (red and orange). For T and U cases you always look at those bars, for H and Pi both bars are in the U-layer.

S -S and L also uses something like that but then the "bars" are split. There are always four stickers to look for but in these cases only the two in U and one more is needed for recognition, you can pick the one of the two coloured side stickers displayed in the images you like best.


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## Athefre (Sep 14, 2008)

I think this is a great idea, I've been wanting a database for CxLL for a long time because going through the many COLL, CLL, CMLL, etc sites trying to find the ones that feel the best for those annoying cases is tiring.

How are you going to handle the different recognition "styles". For example, look at -SR. I would look at all three extra stickers on U and the sticker at FUL and see that I have the "diagonal opposites" case. But the way on the page you are creating looks at the stickers at UFR, UFL, BUL, and BUR and has the "diagonal same" (or "vertical/horizontal opposites") case. Someone that understands CxLL recognition would eventually figure which link to go to but it would take time.

Or is there something I'm not seeing?


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## Kenneth (Sep 14, 2008)

The other way is to put two corners (or all four if they are permuted) in position using AUF, then orient the cube so the whites are pointing in the same direction as in my images and then see on which side the two swapped corners are, it is either no swapped = U, diagonal = D or swapped at R, L, F or B side.

EDIT: I don't think I replied this at first (didn't read that careful) :



Athefre said:


> How are you going to handle the different recognition "styles". For example, look at -SR. I would look at all three extra stickers on U and the sticker at FUL and see that I have the "diagonal opposites" case. But the way on the page you are creating looks at the stickers at UFR, UFL, BUL, and BUR



One solution to diffrent recognition methods is to upload images for the other methods too. But to put them in the navigator... hmm, maybe not because it would make it huge and messy, (it already is).

The system used at the pages is my own creation, for all sunes I use: find two opposite stickers in U and one more of any of the two colours and then compare positions = you only need three stickers to see witch case it is.


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## Kenneth (Sep 14, 2008)

Wrong by me....


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## Athefre (Sep 14, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> One solution to diffrent recognition methods is to upload images for the other methods too. But to put them in the navigator... hmm, maybe not because it would make it huge and messy, (it already is).
> 
> The system used at the pages is my own creation, for all sunes I use: find two opposite stickers in U and one more of any of the two colours and then compare positions = you only need three stickers to see witch case it is.



I like that idea. I may switch to it sometime later...right now I'm satisfied with having one consistent way of recognizing the Sunes (looking at the same four stickers for every case). Your way may be faster after some practice because it seems like it would be easier to notice the patterns quickly.

I'll be sure to add my own algorithms and I can't wait to see the ones you (and everyone else) will be adding.

The only solution I have thought of is to use mouseover images. Like...keep your table the way it is but make it so for each case when you move the cursor over it, it will bring up images for the other recognition types people use....but there are so many possibilities.

Don't most people that use COLL type recognition already understand how to tell which set of two corners need to be switched (using what you described above)? If so, all they would have to do is look at the top of your table to find the link they want.


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## Kenneth (Sep 14, 2008)

I don't think it is possible to do mouseovers in the wiki but it's a nice idéa.

I think I will start the makeing of the actual pages soon, then I will also add my COLL's and possibly some of my CLL, CMLL, Waterman and EG algs too (I will add them sooner or later but maybe not in the first run).


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## Kenneth (Sep 15, 2008)

I started to add little comments after the algs. Is that a good idéa or will it make the pages messy?

Examples here: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/CxLL_Pi_D

BTW: All Pi pages are ready for use exept the Pi B that is my "empty page" that I use to copy to make the rest of the pages, it will be the last page I compleate. Next I will do H I think.


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## Athefre (Sep 15, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> I started to add little comments after the algs. Is that a good idéa or will it make the pages messy?
> 
> Examples here: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/CxLL_Pi_D
> 
> BTW: All Pi pages are ready for use exept the Pi B that is my "empty page" that I use to copy to make the rest of the pages, it will be the last page I compleate. Next I will do H I think.



I like the idea of having comments but I don't like the way it looks when a comment is in that position, maybe if you put it below it like:

R'U'RU'R'UF'UFR
-(small suggestion of how to perform it, probably wouldn't be needed for most of them)
-(small description of how it works, like you already have on your page)

But maybe that style would look ugly to other people.


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## Kenneth (Sep 15, 2008)

Your suggestion is good but it is one little problem. As yoiu can see the algs are in lists and that is because thw wiki software always places sections of text in blocks with no carrige returns if it is not lists. The only option is to use <BR> but then it is a empty line in between lines. But I can try to make the comments in sublists, like:


```
* List
** sublist
** sublist
* next entry in the main list
** sub
```

Edit, I found "inlines" (don't know the word for it and does not have the energy to check =) are useful, look at the example page now.


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## Kenneth (Sep 16, 2008)

To be honest I liked the first version better so I will revert the changes I did.


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## Athefre (Sep 16, 2008)

Yeah, it doesn't affect the readability of the algorithms having it to the right so it doesn't matter where it's placed, I was just giving a suggestion. But I don't know much about editing Wiki sites so I can't really help much when it comes to that.

What I will help with though is the algorithms. I have a few fast ones I plan to add.


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## Kenneth (Sep 16, 2008)

Great Athefre, I can't wait to see your algs because I got some that is a bit slow 

I will probably have all pages done by the end of this week (OK, I can do all today but that would take time from my cubing and that is something we do not like, not at all, currently I'm planning a 5x5x5 10(12) average because my V-5 is getting really good now =)


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## Athefre (Sep 16, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> Great Athefre, I can't wait to see your algs because I got some that is a bit slow



I'm sure with your block method experience (especially your love for BCE) you have created at least some that are very fast.

BTW, what method do you use now when solving for speed? If it is a BCE, do you have a description somewhere? I checked the site in your profile but didn't see anything.


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## Kenneth (Sep 16, 2008)

For competiton I always using COLL because that's my most consistent method. I'm faster using CLL/ELL but my recognition for some of the ELL's are slow and I keep forgetting a few of the algs, that because I'm out of practice. I started with CLL but then I got cases where all edges was oriented but my CLL alg changed them = not fun. And ELL is slow for OH so I learned COLL, now I'm using diffrent algs depending if I do CLL or COLL for like 40-50% of the cases.

My fastest method is a BCE where I place the four pairs, then CLL, place RD/LD and BD, orient last 5 edges using M' U M and then 5-edge permut but I'm wery unconsistent using it, I need more practice and that I'm planning to do this winter. Even faster is to use orient the pairs in random positions and then use EG to solve CLL and permute the pairs (with double layer turns to preserve the pairs) but that is even more unconsistent...

But man!, it's a great method


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## Athefre (Sep 16, 2008)

That's an amazing idea, I remember your posts early this year (EDIT: or last year?) about something similar to that. Keep practicing.


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## Kenneth (Sep 27, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> I will probably have all pages done by the end of this week (OK, I can do all today but that would take time from my cubing and that is something we do not like, not at all, currently I'm planning a 5x5x5 10(12) average because my V-5 is getting really good now =)



Took another week but now all pages are up 

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/CxLL_Algorithms

Hope I did not do to many errors, if you find one write at the talk pages (all pages in the wiki has got a talk page), or write here or simply fix the error =)

Got an alg?... add it to the lists 

But if you like to contribute, then please read the first page so you understand the "rules" of where to put the algs.

Note that you can not only find algs at the pages, you can also learn recognition from there (hope my descriptions works, it is not always that easy to write descriptions =)


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## Athefre (Sep 30, 2008)

Great, I can finish adding mine now.


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## joey (Sep 30, 2008)

So, where is the ELL version


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## Kenneth (Sep 30, 2008)

joey said:


> So, where is the ELL version



And you got nothing else to do than that I assume? 

It's a bit of work, I won't do it, at least not now. For the moment I'm writing pages for some of my experimental methods and after that I plan to move the description of my big cube method over to the wiki, update it a little and add some images. That's enough work for at least a month.


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## joey (Sep 30, 2008)

I've nearly learned most of ELL anyway.
I have to learn CLL, except I need CLLBDMUE (corners of the last layer, but dont mess up the edges!), so most of the algs are useless to me :S


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## Kenneth (Sep 30, 2008)

joey said:


> I've nearly learned most of ELL anyway.
> I have to learn CLL, except I need CLLBDMUE (corners of the last layer, but dont mess up the edges!), so most of the algs are useless to me :S



I have been thinking of putting algs also for those cases to the pages but then I need to do descriptions for each case because it is more than 40 of them (I know around 20-30 as is). I'm not sure but I think it is around 80 or so (doing ELL first is better, like 14 cases).

But I can give you Sune-Bruno, it is at least one 

R U R' U R' U' R2 U' R2 U2 R ... also mirror (or inverse)

--------

waffle=ijm: the algs are there so you and everybody else can use them, in vids or anywhere.


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## Quadrescence (Oct 2, 2008)

*hyperorientations*

thought this would be appropriate.

http://home.comcast.net/~quadricode/hyperorientations/

knock yourself out.


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## Kenneth (Oct 3, 2008)

It's above the scope of the page, same goes for ZBLL and a style I use sometimes where you orient LL edges when doing CLL (CEOLL maybe? I used to call it XCLL, = eXtended CLL). I think, if we put methods like that in the wiki, it will be in separate pages for each method because of the many cases they got (XCLL is 300+, ZBLL is nearly 500).


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## Kenneth (Nov 25, 2008)

I just added an alg that I just found, a really great, short and speedy 2-gen for CMLL (Roux) case H U.

One of my better findings lateley 

CxLL_H_U#CMLL


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## LarsN (Dec 10, 2008)

Would it be allright to add CLLEF to the CxLL page?

It's the same 40 cases as COLL only with all edges flipped, which means recognition is the same.

The method is discussed in this thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7809


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## LarsN (Dec 12, 2008)

I was wondering about the recognition method for the CxLL page. Is it some kind of approved standard? I find it hard to use because you need to look all around the cube for different stickers.
The main reasson might be because I learned COLL from Bob Burtons page, which only requires you to look at U and F.

The page has a link to a method called "Hyperorientations" maybe there should be a link to Bobs method or a description of it?


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## Kenneth (Dec 12, 2008)

Yes you can add your algs.

There is no standard for recognition, the system at the pages is mine, but I guess most is the same as everybody uses.

You are free to add links to any page that may be to some help to someone


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## qqwref (Dec 12, 2008)

Er, this CxLL thing is kind of cool, but I don't like the organization. If someone wants to add algorithms for a new CxLL method they have to edit about 40 different pages (!!!) and if you want to learn CxLL you also have to look at 40 or so different pages. Can you guys please try to condense it? Here is my idea for the organization:
- One introduction page describing what CxLL is, like we already have.
- One page describing the cases. This would for example say which cases are mirrors of other cases, and this would also describe the most common ways to recognize the cases.
- One page for each method: CLL, CMLL, 2x2 CLL, COLL, CLLEF, EG...

I think this would make it much easier to navigate the pages and learn the methods. If someone agrees that this would be better than forcing someone to look through 40 separate articles just to learn a method, but nobody wants to do it, I'd be glad to help.


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## Kenneth (Dec 12, 2008)

I made it this way so there is one page per case so it is possible to add many methods having the same recognition. It would make enormous pages if it all shall fit into one page. Having it like this you can also compare methods easily.

I suggest you keep this page and if you like, fill in algs for all COLL at the COLL page and so on, we can have both.


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## qqwref (Dec 12, 2008)

Why would you want to compare methods, though? They're all used for different situations. If you're trying to learn CMLL, it doesn't matter what the EG or CLLEF or CLL algs are, you need CMLL algs and that's it. It's just inconvenient to have all the algs on different pages. If you are learning a method, you don't just learn one case at a time, you have to have them all in front of you so you can see what you are doing.

And the pages would not actually be that gigantic, each page would basically be a table of algorithms, like this: http://erikku.er.funpic.org/rubik/EGCase_1.html. If you want to know the recognition there is a separate page for that, which is better because it would compare the recognition for similar cases rather than just showing what one case looks like. I think the pages for each set of algorithms would be smaller than the OLL and KBCM Step 6 pages.


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