# Color Neutrality



## rubikmaster (Jan 2, 2012)

Which do you think is the best: White cross,White and Yellow Cross or Color Neutral?


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## jskyler91 (Jan 2, 2012)

rubikmaster said:


> Which do you think is the best: White cross,White and Yellow Cross or Color Neutral?


 
Do a forum search and see, there are tons of threads on this.


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## rubikmaster (Jan 2, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Do a forum search and see, there are tons of threads on this.


Yeah,but the only poll I have found asks which color do you start your cross on.Here I am asking what kind of cross do you think is the best.No matter how you do it.So I just want to know what does the community think about what kind of cross is the best.


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## ZamHalen (Jan 2, 2012)

A better question would be be, "Do you prefer fixed cross, opposite color neutral,or color neutral?"
I chose color neutral anyway.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 2, 2012)

rubikmaster said:


> Yeah,but the only poll I have found asks which color do you start your cross on.Here I am asking what kind of cross do you think is the best.No matter how you do it.So I just want to know what does the community think about what kind of cross is the best.


 
This is true, the most recent one i found was in 2009 so I guess it would be interesting to see how people feel now. I say Color Neutral FTW, I have been CN since I was 30 seconds and i haven't turned back since. It can be hard though and make sure that if you do it that you still practice hard crosses or else you will get babyed and find hard crosses impossible.


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## IMSLOW1097 (Jan 2, 2012)

Definitely color neutral. look at this study by lars vandenbergh: http://www.cubezone.be/crossstudy.html


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## chrissyD (Jan 2, 2012)

Colour neutral is best but I really don't think it's much faster than having one cross colour.


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## Vinny (Jan 2, 2012)

I've been color neutral since I solved the cube for the first time. I really don't understand why people do fixed cross in the first place...


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## cubernya (Jan 2, 2012)

Personally, I find 1 move shorter for a cross a big difference when you're talking 8 moves maximum


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## Edward (Jan 2, 2012)

It's all up to the user 
Some people love fixed cross, some people love CN. No real difference either way. Just pick what you like and roll with it 
My crosses have been:
Green
CN
Orange
CN
Blue
White
CN 
Orange/ red
Now I'm CN.


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## IMSLOW1097 (Jan 2, 2012)

Sahid Velji said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but according to that study, being completely color neutral saves you 1 move on a cross on average than if you were to make the cross on a fixed color.


 
Yes, you're right. As theZcuber said though, 1 move is quite a lot if you're talking a seven or eight move cross.


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## emolover (Jan 2, 2012)

Vinny said:


> I've been color neutral since I solved the cube for the first time. I really don't understand why people do fixed cross in the first place...


 
Me too. I just don't get why anyone would choose a specific color.


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## cubernya (Jan 2, 2012)

Being CN also gives you A LOT more opportunities for an X-cross or preserved pair


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## musicninja17 (Jan 2, 2012)

Not to mention having to lookahead one to two moves less for that first f2l pair is certainly beneficial.


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## Muesli (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm colour neutral out of sheer boredom. Solving the same way every time is dull.


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## Achifaifa (Jan 2, 2012)

I usually solve the white first because it's easier to see when everything is scrambled. If you are able to do it color neutral, do it. But i don't think it's a great difference when you are averaging more than 20 sec.


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## drewsopchak (Jan 2, 2012)

Vinny said:


> I've been color neutral since I solved the cube for the first time. I really don't understand why people do fixed cross in the first place...


 
because they've trained themselves to look for white corners.


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## cubeflip (Jan 2, 2012)

I do White/Yellow cross, and someday I want to be color neutral. But it's gonna be a lot of work...


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## Dene (Jan 3, 2012)

CN ftw. Poll options are retarded.


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## Florian (Jan 3, 2012)

Poll should be: On how many cross colours do you start?
1
2
3
4
5
6


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## Kirjava (Jan 3, 2012)

Florian said:


> Poll should be: On how many cross colours do you start?
> 1
> 2
> 3
> ...



No it shouldn't. I'd vote 6 and I'm not colour neutral.


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## Dene (Jan 3, 2012)

He should have done what someone above suggested, and asked if people think single cross, opposite cross, CN, or some other variation, is the best. specifying white and yellow was just silly.


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## freshcuber (Jan 3, 2012)

The poll options are foolish because this is a new member who makes a thread every time an idea pops into his head. He just needs to sit back and lurk moar. 

Edit: He's started eleven threads since he started, most of which are useless and could have been resolved in the OAQT. Anything with a poll has had options similar to this one in that they're not well thought out and are all around sub par.


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## aronpm (Jan 3, 2012)

White only is clearly the best.


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## fastcubesolver (Jan 3, 2012)

I chose white cross, from personal experience. I would fail at CN and even a yellow cross. I think that if you were really good at it(Rowe, Faz), then CN is best, but I made my decision based on what I personally prefer.


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## LeighzerCuber (Jan 3, 2012)

Vinny said:


> I've been color neutral since I solved the cube for the first time. I really don't understand why people do fixed cross in the first place...


 
When you consistently use only one color f2l is very easy because you are used to looking for the same 8 pieces every time and you recognize bad pieces faster. CN people just have developed that recog from one side to all sides by practicing a hell of a lot more. That is why sticking w/ one color or dual cross solving is beneficial to relatively slow people.


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## The Bloody Talon (Jan 3, 2012)

i'm white/yellow
but I'm rying to be a CN. 
I think CN is the best


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## aronpm (Jan 3, 2012)

It's OK to not be colour neutral.


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## Moops (Jan 3, 2012)

I tried color neutrality with CFOP and hated it. From my experience it's only good if you want to find an easy start. I build EOLine, not cross, on either white or yellow and recognition during F2L is so much easier. Instead of going for color neutrality for an easy start or because it's the hip thing to do it is better to learn how to deal with harder cases efficiently.


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## emolover (Jan 3, 2012)

Moops said:


> I tried color neutrality with CFOP and hated it. From my experience it's only good if you want to find an easy start. I build EOLine, not cross, on either white or yellow and recognition during F2L is so much easier.


 
In your case it might be easier. You learned to recognize colors and color neutral people learned to recognize patterns. A fixed cross in no way enables you to have better recognition.


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## Moops (Jan 3, 2012)

emolover said:


> In your case it might be easier. You learned to recognize colors and color neutral people learned to recognize patterns. A fixed cross in no way enables you to have better recognition.


 
That would make a much more interesting poll and discussion. What is best/better/good? Recognising colors or recognising patterns?


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## emolover (Jan 3, 2012)

Moops said:


> That would make a much more interesting poll and discussion. What is best/better/good? Recognising colors or recognising patterns?


 
Even if you are right about recognition being better with a fixed cross and a better start with color neutral, they probably cancel each other out.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 3, 2012)

emolover said:


> Even if you are right about recognition being better with a fixed cross and a better start with color neutral, they probably cancel each other out.


 
And with enough practice, CN should simply be better due to the increased chances of x cross and the easier cross solves.


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## 5BLD (Jan 3, 2012)

Full colour neutrality annoys me. My LSE is faster with white/yellow on L/R but my blocks are so much slower this way. So I have to stay white/yellow colour neutral.

The problem is, if I practiced colour neutrality, won't it slow my progress and only give me a tiny tiny advantage? Any colour neutral Rouxers out there (hello Cool Frog), does it benefit you a lot?


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## Moops (Jan 3, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> And with enough practice, CN should simply be better due to the increased chances of x cross and the easier cross solves.


 
CN Could be better but CFOP isn't the only method. Are there any color neutral ZZ users out there?


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## Kirjava (Jan 3, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Any colour neutral Rouxers out there (hello Cool Frog), does it benefit you a lot?


 
They wouldn't possibly know.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 6, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Full colour neutrality annoys me. My LSE is faster with white/yellow on L/R but my blocks are so much slower this way. So I have to stay white/yellow colour neutral.
> 
> The problem is, if I practiced colour neutrality, won't it slow my progress and only give me a tiny tiny advantage? Any colour neutral Rouxers out there (hello Cool Frog), does it benefit you a lot?


 
My lse is only a sec slower when i dont do it with yellow U. 
im reallllly thinking about becoming CN, cause my blocks are a mess. 
And since im not that good(as you), there would no problem, right??


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## Rama (Jan 6, 2012)

I started out this week with cn and i do at least one avg of 12 a day with all the colours.
I'm around 15 with yellow and 25 with the rest.

It's not that hard, just be patient.

P.S. it's also quite fun to see my times drop down by the seconds again instead of tenths and hundreds.


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## porkynator (Jan 6, 2012)

Moops said:


> CN Could be better but CFOP isn't the only method. Are there any color neutral ZZ users out there?


 
I am white/yellow EOLine color neutral too, but I wouldn't say this is color neutrality, since I need orange/red on F/B and white/yellow on U/D. I think it would be very hard to be full color neutral with ZZ, and also, how would one inspect? Checking EO for the 6 different possible orientation (counting them in groups of 4) is rather impossible to do in 15 seconds.


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