# Guinness World Record -- 839 Rubik's Cubes in 4:56:01 During a Marathon



## PhillipEspinoza (Jul 14, 2014)

Hello Speedsolving Forum,

It's been a while, I just wanted to let you all know of the Guinness World Record I will be attempting to break on November 15, 2014 at the Azusa Canyon City Marathon and maybe get some tips and/or support for setting this record. The current record is 175 cubes solved during a marathon by Shane White. My goal is to do at least 1,000 solves during the 5 hour time limit they set. Note: the time limit is 5 hours and given that the record is not for fastest marathon but most cubes solved during, it makes most sense to try to solve as many cubes as possible under the time limit that they set instead of trying to pull a sub-3 marathon while solving 176 cubes. I have written to Guinness and have received all the guidelines for breaking this record and it seems pretty straightforward and liberal as to how you decide to have the cubes presented to you during the attempt.

Here's my idea for the most efficient way to break this record (let me know if you could think of a more efficient way to pull this off): I will have a 4-person crew (Steven Turner, Michael NotKevin Young, Sam Chiu, Everett Kelly and possibly Cameron Brown). They will all be accompanying me in one pedicab as I do the 11:13/mile pace. 1 person will be the official scrambler of the event, 1 person will be responsible for handing/taking the cubes from me, 1 person will be responsible for keeping count, and the final person will be filming the event for evidence purposes. There will be about 10-20 cubes on deck that will be cycled through the whole run. With this system set up, I feel like it should be highly possible for me to reach 1,000 cubes (given that the pedicab driver does enough training to withstand driving 4 people for 5 hours straight). *Is there any timer system out there that highlights the number of cubes currently solved as opposed to the time of the most recent solve?*

Please let me know if you can foresee any issues I may have overlooked in attempting this run. Also, if you can, I know everyone is spending their money on cubes and other cubing related things, but please take time to support this endeavor on www.gofundme.com/rubiksrunrecord. I am also raising money to start an organization that will help San Diego Native Youth afford expensive race fees and good running shoes so that there is no longer a reason to continue unhealthy lifestyles that plague Native Americans. Every little bit helps to bring awareness to this cause through the cool hobbies of speedcubing and running! Thanks in advance!


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## Goosly (Jul 14, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> (given that the pedicab driver does enough training to withstand driving 4 people for 5 hours straight)



My first thought while reading your plan is that this might be an issue.


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## rokicki (Jul 14, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> They will all be accompanying me in one pedicab as I do the 11:13/mile pace.



Most marathons have a strict no-wheels policy; have you verified with the marathon organizers that they will make an
exception for you? Especially for a large pedicab; that's going to be real popular with all the runners around you.
Of course you'll be way at the back, so maybe it's not that big a deal.

If one pedicab driver is not up to it, it's probably not that hard to have, say, 5 drivers do it as a relay, 5.2 miles each.

Pops could be a real problem early in the race when it's crowded. I'm surprised you're choosing such a crowded
marathon.

Have you done any dry runs? Can you tell us about them? Even just knocking off six miles as a test will bring out
issues, I am sure.

11:13 is so slow you may actually be able to *walk* for most of the marathon and do the cubes then, and run
a mile every so often to make up the required time. Don't know if this violates the spirit of what you are
attempting, though. It's pretty easy to walk 13:30's; if you can run 8:00's that means you can walk 16 miles
and run 10.2, so you're walking for 3 1/2 of the 5 hours. If you can run 7:00's you can walk nearly 18 miles.
And alternating walk/run like this is surprisingly easy.

I've tried running and cubing simultaneously and for *me* it was dangerous; I had a hard time watching for unexpected
obstacles (other runners, curbs) while cubing at the same time. I wish you the best of luck!


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jul 14, 2014)

rokicki said:


> Most marathons have a strict no-wheels policy; have you verified with the marathon organizers that they will make an
> exception for you? Especially for a large pedicab; that's going to be real popular with all the runners around you.
> Of course you'll be way at the back, so maybe it's not that big a deal.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback! I've taken a lot of these things into account but what I'm interested in is your last idea. If I walk 18 miles at 13:30 pace, and say I can get a no-inspection average of 11 seconds, I could solve 1,337 cubes and just run 7 minute miles for the last 8.2? Hmm.. that might actually make it easier on the pedicab too, only having them do 4 hours and at a slower pace... although, yeah I'd have to decide if that would compromise the intent of what I'm trying to do (I don't want it to seem as if I'm trying to cut corners) but I will seriously consider this, thanks!

I picked the marathon based on flatness of the course. As much as I'd want the pedicab to do 1,000 ft of gain it's already iffy on a flat marathon course. The crowd shouldn't matter too much as I will obviously be in back, and I will also coordinate this event with the organizers of the marathon so I'm not just crashing the marathon.


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## Rocky0701 (Jul 15, 2014)

Is the person who is cyling the pedicab a cyclist? 26.2 miles wouldn't be too hard for someone who isn't used to cycling, but hauling 3 passengers and a heavier bike would make it easily 800+ pounds, which could be a challenge for a non cyclist. I would also time your scrambler to make sure that they can keep up with you since based on your signature you seem to be sub 10. I average 21 and scramble in about 10 seconds, so it could be an issue if they are slower than you.


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## qqwref (Jul 15, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> Is there any timer system out there that highlights the number of cubes currently solved as opposed to the time of the most recent solve?


There's a marathon timer out there, which was used during Eric Limeback's 24 hour WR marathon. I think strakerak also made another one. It would also be pretty simple to modify something like qqtimer to make the number of solved cubes really big (or at least the number of scrambles done - and then you would subtract the number of unsolved cubes at the end).



rokicki said:


> Most marathons have a strict no-wheels policy; have you verified with the marathon organizers that they will make an
> exception for you? Especially for a large pedicab; that's going to be real popular with all the runners around you.
> Of course you'll be way at the back, so maybe it's not that big a deal.


This is a good point. And a 5 hour time may not necessarily be way at the back, depending on how many casual runners there are...


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jul 15, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Is the person who is cyling the pedicab a cyclist? 26.2 miles wouldn't be too hard for someone who isn't used to cycling, but hauling 3 passengers and a heavier bike would make it easily 800+ pounds, which could be a challenge for a non cyclist. I would also time your scrambler to make sure that they can keep up with you since based on your signature you seem to be sub 10. I average 21 and scramble in about 10 seconds, so it could be an issue if they are slower than you.



Thank you all great points. I would be having someone from the crew scramble (Michael?) so they're pretty safe if I solve on avg 12-13 secs while running with no inspection if they could scramble random state ~9 secs. I would take an occasional break to down some gu or drink something too so there should be comfortable space in terms of timing but yeah no doubt they're gonna be busy the entire time.

And yeah that is true about the pedicab driver, if I could I'd do it myself but yeah we need a decent to strong cyclist.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jul 15, 2014)

qqwref said:


> There's a marathon timer out there, which was used during Eric Limeback's 24 hour WR marathon. I think strakerak also made another one. It would also be pretty simple to modify something like qqtimer...



Awesome! Do you know where I could find that timer, or could you maybe help with the qq modification?


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## PJKCuber (Jul 15, 2014)

Just get 1000 Sulongs They are cheap. Good Luck on the WR!


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## RobertFontaine (Jul 15, 2014)

Solving at a rate of 12-13 seconds it would be very easy to overrun your scrambler who has to retrieve a cube read the correct scramble and then hand it off or put it in the pile. Probably worth doing a dry run to find out how many cubes you will need and whether you will need 2 scramblers or more over a period of 5 hours.
They may not be as motivated as you.


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## DeeDubb (Jul 15, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> Just get 1000 Sulongs They are cheap. Good Luck on the WR!



Before you hit submit, you should consider what you just typed, do some research, and see if it makes sense. 1000 Sulongs, at their cheapest price are maybe around $3.50USD in bulk... multiply by 1000, that's $3,500USD. That's assuming you can even find somewhere to buy that many cubes in bulk. Plus the practicality of towing 1000 cubes through a marathon. It's simply ridiculous.


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## blade740 (Jul 15, 2014)

I think I could pedal a pedicab for 5 hours if need be.


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## rokicki (Jul 15, 2014)

For each role, have an understudy. With this big a production, one person being sick
could wreck the whole thing.

And scrambling does worry me; I might do have two people scramble and each
count as well (you can get little click things that count).

The video will probably be pretty boring; I bet you could get a few GoPro cameras
and attach them to the pedicab and get everything you need video-wise without
actually needing an individual to run the cameras.


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## Bunyanderman (Jul 15, 2014)

Do they make pedi-cabs that hold 4 people plus some equipment? Unless you already have one, some can be very expensive. If you spaced out the marathon to 5 hours, thats 5mph average for the cyclist. I average 18mph and good cyclist can average over 20mph, on a 20+ mile ride, but I don't know about the added weight on how much that affects the ride. If you had the right gear, it would be a breeze.


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## brian724080 (Jul 15, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> Just get 1000 Sulongs They are cheap. Good Luck on the WR!



Or just buy three, because 1000 cubes of any kind is both expensive and heavy.


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## Baku (Jul 15, 2014)

To address the concern of the pedi-cab driver becoming too tired to drive. You could have a scrambler (or anyone else involved) and the pedi-cab driver switch roles mid race so they wouldn't have to peddle for so long. Keep in mind that a pedi-cab will not ride like a road bike so even a two and a half hour ride could tire your average cyclist out.

And in response to this ...



PJKCuber said:


> Just get *1000* Sulongs They are cheap.



Just ... no


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jul 15, 2014)

blade740 said:


> I think I could pedal a pedicab for 5 hours if need be.



That'd be awesome to have you on Board Andy. I will get back to you to see if this could happen. The pedicab company I called said that their driver needs to be licensed to operate the pedicab so it might not be as simple as we would like it to be.



rokicki said:


> For each role, have an understudy. With this big a production, one person being sick
> could wreck the whole thing.
> 
> And scrambling does worry me; I might do have two people scramble and each
> ...



Yeah, that is a great idea with having someone as backup. The driver will have to show up as I would be paying the company good money for this stunt. But I have arranged for the mentioned cubers to be there. I feel like other cubers in the SoCal area could come too just to spectate or something and maybe I could have some of my backups be there if they're not too far from the area. Long Beach I thought was really good in terms of being central to socal cubers. I'm also doing Ventura and was thinking about having that one be the marathon for this event because it too is really flat, but it's kinda out of the way for most cubers. I'll just settle for a sub-3 Boston qualifying time for that one.



Bunyanderman said:


> Do they make pedi-cabs that hold 4 people plus some equipment? Unless you already have one, some can be very expensive. If you spaced out the marathon to 5 hours, thats 5mph average for the cyclist. I average 18mph and good cyclist can average over 20mph, on a 20+ mile ride, but I don't know about the added weight on how much that affects the ride. If you had the right gear, it would be a breeze.



Yeah I cycle too and am about the same average wise, but yeah unfortunately I can't clone myself and even so, I wouldn't be sure how much different it would be. I almost feel like yeah, the driver needs to train more than me because they need to be damn sure they can do keep up if I'm paying them. Again, not like I'm going incredibly fast but 5mph carrying 4 people might be a different story. The guy from the pedicab company I talked to said it might be a record for longest distance for 4 person pedicab too! lol



Baku said:


> To address the concern of the pedi-cab driver becoming too tired to drive. You could have a scrambler (or anyone else involved) and the pedi-cab driver switch roles mid race so they wouldn't have to peddle for so long. Keep in mind that a pedi-cab will not ride like a road bike so even a two and a half hour ride could tire your average cyclist out.
> 
> And in response to this ...
> 
> ...



Yeah, again, I dunno if it would be as simple as just switching in whoever given that you have to be licensed to "drive" the pedicab but yeah, if they're flexible this would be a good idea.

I'm thankful for all responses and feedback, it really helps, regardless of how ridiculous they may sound. Some advice/feedback is always better than none, I don't have to follow all advice given here but it still helps to know everyone else's ideas even if they are something like buy 1,000 cubes. I could have spread out the 1,000 cubes in bags along the course somewhere if I could afford them (I never said money was a limiting factor to be fair). So thanks for the constructive feedback guys!


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## ChickenWrap (Jul 18, 2014)

I was actually going to attempt this record this year but my goal was 500 cubes....I probably shouldn't bother now 

As for advice, I am a very strong cyclist (ie I can hold 24+mph for over 50 miles) and from my cycling experience, I think that anyone who is in reasonable shape could pedal the pedicab at 5.5mph for a 5 hour effort! I would actually volunteer to pedal it but I live 800 miles away!!


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## DGCubes (Jul 18, 2014)

This sounds like a great idea. Make sure to post it on here once you do it!


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## goodatthis (Jul 18, 2014)

The 1000 sulongs post made me wonder something... How many cubes are you going to use? 20? 50? 100?


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## Stefan (Jul 18, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> The current record is 135 cubes solved during a marathon by Sean White.



Guinness says *175*, by *Shane* White, and not just "during" a marathon (which doesn't sound like you have to participate) but *while running* a marathon:
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-8000/most-rubiks-cubes-solved-whilst-running-a-marathon/
</nitpick>


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## qqwref (Jul 18, 2014)

5 hours isn't "running" a marathon 
</nitpick>


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## Stefan (Jul 18, 2014)

Well maybe he intentionally ran back and forth or accidentally took a wrong turn?


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## newtonbase (Jul 19, 2014)

Have you trained to run without using your arms? I expect it would be quite a bit harder on your legs.


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## Rocky0701 (Jul 20, 2014)

Since you'll be videoing anyway, would a livestream be possible? I guess maybe not since you'll be away from wifi.


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## IRNjuggle28 (Jul 20, 2014)

The timer for android called ChronoPuzzle does count how many solves you have done.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks for the corrections. Yes 175 by Shane White. 

There's actually quite a bit to the training to this. It takes quite a bit of core strength and you have to be really comfortable running for distance to get anywhere close to my goal of 1,000. The core strength is needed to make sure your hands move up and down as minimally as possible by keeping a steady core. You also have to make sure you have a steady and consistent cadence. 5.3 mph may seem slow, but I assure you it's not, especially when trying to solve cubes during. 

My record for the treadmill is sub-12 for 12mph (5:00min/mile pace). If anyone wants to try a challenge, try getting sub-x solve where 'x' is the mph you are doing on a treadmill. Ex: sub-13 solve at 13mph, sub-10 solve at 10 mph, sub-9 at 9mph. As you can see, the slower you go the easier solving is, but the challenge still remains as you have to be able to solve it faster as you run slower. If you could pull this off at any variation of solve/mph, you beat me.

I believe, in all modesty, that I am the perfect person to beat this record. I have actually gotten quite decent at running (sub-3 marathon being my next goal in Sep) and I have ran as far as 100k and just completed an Ironman triathlon. Also, I am a pretty fast cuber (10 to sub-10). Not too many sub-10 cubers are too competitive with running and definitely not many competitive runners know how to even solve the cube. Therefore, if I do it right, I want to make sure that, barring an increase in sub-10 marathon runners, I will hold this record for a long time.

Thanks a lot IRNjuggle28! I just downloaded it now.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jul 22, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Since you'll be videoing anyway, would a livestream be possible? I guess maybe not since you'll be away from wifi.



I have decided that I will be using a GoPro but expect it to get uploaded (maybe time lapse style) to my Youtube channel fingertapper88 (which I never use any more).


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## tpt8899 (Jul 24, 2014)

Good luck on your race! By the way - Will your scramblers be hand-scrambling or have WCA scrambles printed off?


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## RjFx2 (Jul 24, 2014)

If you solve them even at an average of 20 seconds for cube you will beat the current wr by almost double. At 18 second average you will get 1000 cubes or so done. So I'm pretty sure you have the wr already lol.


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## rybaby (Jul 24, 2014)

I would definitely recommend multiple scramblers -- it's better safe than sorry. And if it is possible to switch pedicab drivers , I think having several drivers could help. Best of luck, Phillip!


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## Shane (Sep 2, 2014)

Hello Phillip! 

Just thought I'd introduce myself, I'm Shane. Glad to see that you are taking the record to the next step! Have you petitioned Guinness yet to get the official rules for the effort? If you haven't you might be a little late to get it prior to the event. I know you can petition after the fact but you might miss a small detail in the rules that would make your effort moot. 

Off the top of my head I would also mention the issue of having a pedi-cab in the race, definitely find out if the race will allow it. Second, you have to make sure that the cubes are scrambled to WCA specs using a recognized cube scrambling program for each cube. I was told I had to have all cubes scrambled prior to the event and that I couldn't have contact with the cubes from the time they were scrambled until I put hands on one to solve. 

I know that you can put up big numbers if you're a sub-10 cuber, I myself am only a sub 45 cuber so I wasn't able to put up huge numbers. Uli, the first record setter, was actually a little faster on the cube I think, but he had no standard to beat. When he petitioned Guinness they told him that they would accept 50 for a record, so he doubled it. I initially planned to double his record but doubted my logistics to some degree and settled on 175. 

For my attempt I had crews standing by at every water station waiting with a bag of scrambled cubes; they removed the solved cubes and replaced them with scrambled cubes. I carried the cubes in a bag on my waist (couldn't get a bike on the course, not that I pushed the issue) and found that the added weight on the top of my legs as I ran caused greater fatigue, unfortunately I hit the wall sooner than I normally would have and had to walk more than I thought I would do to cramping (I made the mistake of not training with the bag after I determined I could easily break the record, I really regret that part). 

Anyway, sorry I didn't find out about your attempt sooner, I would have gladly shared my experience. I didn't do this for the record, merely something to draw attention to our goal of raising money for cancer research. 

If you have more questions you can contact me on FB through our page - Battle for Banny. Hope to hear from you. Good luck! Not that it sounds like you need it. 

Shane White


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 2, 2014)

Cool, thanks a lot Shane for sharing your experience! I had a friend who I taught how to cube that moved to Hinesville recently for a job when I found out about this record. It was funny seeing the record set in Savannah, and the funny thing was it was set on her birthday too. Weird conincidences as I know really nobody outside of California.

I've been meaning to update this page with some recent developments.

My original goal race of Long Beach City Marathon would have been perfect due to it's really flat course, however, they got back to me a week or 2 ago (AFTER MONTHS OF TRYING TO REACH THEM!), and told me the course is too narrow on some parts (beach path) and it would not be pedicab friendly. I offered to work something out where I would simply do those parts solo, they agreed to look into it, then they emailed a week later saying pretty much, you know what, this is getting too complicated, forget it. 

Jerks. 

But yes, before I did/do anything with this attempt, the thing I am making sure first is to get clearance from the 1) Guinness for the course (they specify flat as possible, otherwise the record would be uphill) and 2) The race directors. I also got clearance from Guinness for the pedicab as an acceptable means of carrying out this record so no worries there. They just specified that I get clearance from the race directors themselves and it would be acceptable. 

I found a new marathon on November 15 in Azusa, CA called Revel Canyon City Marathon. It's great and I talked to the organizers who are more than excited to have me attempt this at their marathon and were really willing to accomodate my presence for the attempt (they just are awesome race organizers in general, look up their race). So this is the new date and I got most of the original crew on board, I am just waiting to hear back from Guinness as to the acceptability of this course. They specified in the rules that the course should be as flat as possible, otherwise it would have to be done as an "uphill" record. But the thing about this course is it is unlike that of any other marathon I've seen or ran; it is mainly downhill from 5,000+ft to about sea level! 

This would provide a whole set of different nuances to this attempt but if I can get it cleared by Guinness then I'm going to go for it. The good thing about this is the pedicab (which the race providers prefered to a golf cart, which would have been an easier alternative), would just be going downhill for about 5 hours instead of having to pedal for that long; they just have to ride the brakes the entire time. 

As long as Michael NotKevin Young is on board (which is tentative at this point) or even someone else on my crew, I would have them in the pedicab scrambling cubes with the WCA scrambler on an open laptop. So really, this is probably the most efficient way for breaking this silly record. Carrying bags and/or trying to find some way to have 175+ cubes during the marathon seems not only too costly but too weight-inefficient. Especially if I'm trying to go for 1,000 cubes (which is conservative at 18 seconds/cube on avg), the weight of all those cubes would be too much of a burden for the actual race. If you do the math, it would be over 200 lbs in cubes alone! And unlike mosaic attempts (where cubes in bulk are also needed), quality cubes are necessary in order for this record to be effective, which would put the cost at $10,000 at least, just for the cubes!

So I guess this is for future reference, if anyone else wants to try this ridiculous record, this would probably be the most effective way of breaking the record past 1,000 cubes. If I could, I'm thinking about trying to do 1,337 cubes which would be one of the coolest records ever haha. 

Again thanks for sharing your experience and I will definitely keep you updated. Add me on FB "Phillip Kwa'han Espinoza".


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## Stefan (Sep 2, 2014)

They wouldn't accept uphill but would accept downhill? Makes no sense.

(ha, highlighting every "hill" to reread those parts I realized there's a hill in you (or rather your name))


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## rokicki (Sep 2, 2014)

Right, I'd be surprised if a record set with 5000 feet of net elevation *loss* would be acceptable;
that makes the "marathon" part of it much easier than normal (4% average decline!).

I'm not sure the race organizers are really jerks; they are responsible for a huge event with
major safety and logistic considerations; adding a pedicab into the mix is just one more
issue they need to deal with.

Have you considered using a loop marathon (there are many), perhaps one that traverses
the same loop twice (common when the marathon is held in conjunction with a half-marathon)?
If you do this you may be able to find a good compromise between number of cubes you and
your friends have to carry, and you could probably do the scrambling off-course. Think bags
of 50 cubes each bag; that might be reasonable, and you could have people meet you at
the mile stops to exchange. You yourself would never carry the bags; it would be one of
your friends running alongside, and they would trade-off every so often.

Maybe you would need a total of three bags; one being worked on, on the course, one being
scrambled, and one in transit to/from the next stop. Maybe have two people responsible
for each bag; they could trade off the running, and scramble in parallel. You'd then need
three bags, six friends, 150 cubes, and six bikes. Each friend would do about 4 miles.

This would also allow different people to run with you at different times. You'll be running
slowly enough that, with bikes using surface roads on a loop course, all this could potentially
work out pretty well.

If 50 cubes is too much to carry, try 25 and half-mile rendezvous points.

I think the key here is just practice runs; make a plan, try it out for a mile or two, refine it.
I'm sure you'll be able to come up with something effective.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 2, 2014)

Stefan said:


> They wouldn't accept uphill but would accept downhill? Makes no sense.
> 
> (ha, highlighting every "hill" to reread those parts I realized there's a hill in you (or rather your name))



Yeah, it's kinda counterintuitive but one could hope. Waiting on their response before anything is set. I'm going off of the guidelines they sent me, in which they didn't specify that the course cannot be downhill (of course that's probably because there is rarely a marathon with a downhill course this dramatic). One can hope. If anything it'll be on onto the next, that was just the next available marathon in SoCal. 



rokicki said:


> Right, I'd be surprised if a record set with 5000 feet of net elevation *loss* would be acceptable;
> that makes the "marathon" part of it much easier than normal (4% average decline!).
> 
> I'm not sure the race organizers are really jerks; they are responsible for a huge event with
> ...



It's actually a 3.7% average grade, which is still dramatic but what I'm concerned about is that this won't be EASY like you would think. To the half marathon point it's actually an average of 6% grade, and if you have any experience running dowhill, running that long downhill will be an entirely different but just as crazy workout on your quads. 3% grade or less would be ideal for the speed benefit you would get for running downhill without killing your legs (which is why this might make for a better half marathon choice, with a 1.35% average grade downhill). 

The Long Beach Marathon organizers were jerks not because they rejected me, but because it took them 2 months to even adequately respond to any of the constant voicemails, emails, facebook messages, and phone calls I sent them. I would always get a "we'll respond to this tomorrow" message or "Please email this guy", interspersed with 3 of the same or similar messages from me over the course of 2 months. Meanwhile, I messaged this other marathon after 5pm one day and got a call back that next morning saying they would love to have this happen and they think we could pull it off. It really contributes to your overall appreciation of the race and what you usually end up paying over $100 for. 

And with regard to your suggestion, thank you, this is an interesting option possibly worthy of looking into. The things I prioritize in order of importance is cost, and simplicity. At first glance I can tell you the cubes would cost over $2,000 themselves, which though cheaper than 1,000 cubes is still too costly. This would fall second to the idea that I would also have to do more coordinating amongst more people who would be required to do more than my original plan (they would actually have to run, or bike 4 miles, right?). Not to mention the logistics of how one bag would get to the next aid station and the fact that wheels would still be involved which woudl be the main complicating factor of my initial idea.

I appreciate your feedback though and all the thought you put into this, it really contributes to a greater end product, thank you!


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## Shane (Sep 3, 2014)

The guidance I got was that the record had to be performed on a certified marathon course, which usually requires a flat course, or at least a course that finishes the final mile on an uphill grade. I know I had to read the instructions about a dozen times to get all the details right, don't know why but I just seemed to catch a new detail every time I read it. 

I shared your Coss On Left page on FB, my friends are excited to see you break the record! We'll be looking for it.


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## Shane (Sep 3, 2014)

I just reread my rules and this is the part that stuck out for me:

The event must be made on a pre-measured course that is perfectly level or as
part of an annual marathon race, such as the courses in the World Marathon
Majors. The course must be measured and marked out by someone suitably
qualified, such as a professional surveyor. This person should also confirm that
the average gradient over the entire course is no greater than 1:1000. If the
gradient is steeper than this, the record attempt must be made “uphill”.

Since this course drops so much I'm pretty sure that it's not going to be acceptable. My math could be off but the 1:1000 tells me that you can't drop more than 139' over the course of the race, thus it must be run "uphill" instead of down. Please confirm this! I would really hate to see you're record denied because the course didn't meet the standard.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 3, 2014)

Shane said:


> I just reread my rules and this is the part that stuck out for me:
> 
> The event must be made on a pre-measured course that is perfectly level or as
> part of an annual marathon race, such as the courses in the World Marathon
> ...



Ahh, I see, so you take it to mean that the gradient is allowed to be over 0.001% on average but that it must have a net gain instead of a net loss of 139ft or more. You know what's odd about this, is that if this was the case for the 2011 attempt, I'm not sure the London Marathon would have met these requirements. 

Take a look at their elevation graph.

I think Savannah most likely met these standards, it's just nearly impossible to find a flat course over here. Any more uphill and it might be a challenge for the pedicab, though a golf cart *might* be a good solution as long as it's not too steep. I will wait to hear back from Guinness, although I think you may be correct. The verbiage is still kinda weird though, stating the course must be "perfectly level *OR* part of an annual marathon race *such as* the courses in World Marathon Majors", as if being an annual race is a valid alternative to not being perfectly level? I guess that's how the first guy got the okay with London, though I take "such as" to be a suggestion and not a requirement. Rock n Roll marathons are annual marathon races, would they suffice even if had a net loss of 139ft+?

I don't think Guinness really cares too much about making the details of this record clear. I'm gonna look into doing Bakersfield Marathon and start going down that path.


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## Stefan (Sep 3, 2014)

Ah yes, that makes much more sense (I had somehow thought it can't be too uphill or else it would have to be *called *"uphill" and be a record separate from the old one, rather that being *done* uphill).


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 3, 2014)

Stefan said:


> Ah yes, that makes much more sense (I had somehow thought it can't be too uphill or else it would have to be *called *"uphill" and be a record separate from the old one, rather that being *done* uphill).



That was my understanding of it as well.


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## Stefan (Sep 3, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> I'm not sure the London Marathon would have met these requirements.
> 
> Take a look at their elevation graph.



Looks like it drops about 115ft, well under 139ft.


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## qqwref (Sep 3, 2014)

Just to clarify, does Phillip actually have to have 1000 separate cubes? Because that would seriously be bad news. I wouldn't be surprised though, as Guinness seems to know next to nothing about Rubik's Cubes.

Also, it'd be pretty funny if they actually do put such thin limits on elevation changes while allowing 5 hours to run the thing. This isn't a marathon WR attempt, course difficulty is almost irrelevant  And it would be so incredibly silly to have a record of, say, 1000 cubes for a normal course and 200 cubes for an "uphill" course.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 4, 2014)

Stefan said:


> Looks like it drops about 115ft, well under 139ft.



It looks like it goes up to ~50m then drops to about sea level making that a change of more than 42.195m which would be the 1:1000 ratio.



qqwref said:


> Just to clarify, does Phillip actually have to have 1000 separate cubes? Because that would seriously be bad news. I wouldn't be surprised though, as Guinness seems to know next to nothing about Rubik's Cubes.
> 
> Also, it'd be pretty funny if they actually do put such thin limits on elevation changes while allowing 5 hours to run the thing. This isn't a marathon WR attempt, course difficulty is almost irrelevant  And it would be so incredibly silly to have a record of, say, 1000 cubes for a normal course and 200 cubes for an "uphill" course.



lol seriously though. Here you could have 5 hours but make sure not to go down 140ft otherwise that's too easy. lowat.

I don't have to do 1,000 cubes that was just my goal, and I'll try to stick to it even if I have to wait for the right marathon to do it, and even if that takes a while. I wanna do it once and do it right, to the best of my ability. Go 1,337 or go home.


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## Stefan (Sep 4, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> It looks like it goes up to ~50m then drops to about sea level making that a change of more than 42.195m which would be the 1:1000 ratio.



Yeah but looking at it that way would be silly. Ignores the rise at start and end.

You start at 41m, you end at 6m, that's a net loss of 35m.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 4, 2014)

Stefan said:


> Yeah but looking at it that way would be silly. Ignores the rise at start and end.
> 
> You start at 41m, you end at 6m, that's a net loss of 35m.



I don't think that's what they mean by 1:1000 average gradient. By that logic you could have a start at 41m and and end at 41m and be a net loss of 0m regardless if they had 500m ups and 500m downs, which would not be perfectly level. And that's not what's meant by net loss either. Net loss = cumulative descension, that means the amount you descend during a race given ups and downs not just start elevation minus the begining elevation. If the race PEAKED at 41m (not simply started) and went straight down to 6m, you would be right. But that's not the way the course is designed with London or most marathons. In fact, the only marathon I've ever come across that even comes close to being like that is the one I proposed with 5,000ft+ drop straight down with only a slight back uphill or flat portion.

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure that's how it goes...


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## Methuselah96 (Sep 4, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> I don't think that's what they mean by 1:1000 average gradient. By that logic you could have a start at 41m and and end at 41m and be a net loss of 0m regardless if they had 500m ups and 500m downs, which would not be perfectly level. And that's not what's meant by net loss either. Net loss = cumulative descension, that means the amount you descend during a race given ups and downs not just start elevation minus the begining elevation. If the race PEAKED at 41m (not simply started) and went straight down to 6m, you would be right. But that's not the way the course is designed with London or most marathons. In fact, the only marathon I've ever come across that even comes close to being like that is the one I proposed with 5,000ft+ drop straight down with only a slight back uphill or flat portion.
> 
> I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure that's how it goes...



I am almost certain Stefan is correct and you are wrong. Do you have sources?


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 4, 2014)

Methuselah96 said:


> I am almost certain Stefan is correct and you are wrong. Do you have sources?




Not that this really has anything to do with the subject matter anymore... you can refer to this for a better explanation. 



> In the simplest case of a trip where hikers only travel up on their way to a single summit, the cumulative elevation gain is simply given by the difference in the summit elevation and the starting elevation. For example, if one were to start hiking at a trailhead with elevation 1,000 feet (300 m), and hike up to a summit of 5,000 feet (1,500 m), the cumulative elevation gain would just be 5000 ft - 1000 ft = 4000 ft. The loss of elevation on the descent is not relevant, because only increases in elevation are considered in this measure.
> 
> However, when climbing a mountain with some "ups-and-downs", or traversing several mountains, you must take into account every "up" along the whole route. This even means that the (usually small) uphills on the descent must be counted. For example, consider a mountain whose summit was 5,000 feet (1,500 m) in elevation, but somewhere on the way up, the trail went back down 250 feet (76 m). If starting at an elevation of 1,000 feet (300 m), one would gain 4,250 feet (1,300 m) on the way up (not 4000, because 250 is lost and has to be "regained"). The 250 feet on the way down is not counted.


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## Methuselah96 (Sep 4, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> Not that this really has anything to do with the subject matter anymore... you can refer to this for a better explanation.



doesn't sound like "the average gradient over the entire course" to me.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 5, 2014)

That's what google is for dude, if you don't understand google it. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gradient+calculator. 

The disagreement was what was considered net loss. 

And just to drive home this point, take a look at Pike's Peak Marathon, one of the hardest marathons in the world with almost 8,000ft vertical gain. If I were to go by Stefan's logic, then this marathon would be an acceptable course for this record because it starts at 6,300 and ends at 6,345. 45ft total gain? I'M SIGNING UP!


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## Stefan (Sep 5, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> That's what google is for dude, if you don't understand google it. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gradient+calculator.



Acting like that is a rather bad idea if you're the one who's wrong. Especially if the results of your lmgtfy don't cover the issue or disagree with you.



PhillipEspinoza said:


> Not that this really has anything to do with the subject matter anymore... you can refer to this for a better explanation.



Funny how even just the string "net" doesn't even appear on that page at all.


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## Bunyanderman (Sep 5, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> That's what google is for dude, if you don't understand google it. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gradient+calculator.
> 
> The disagreement was what was considered net loss.
> 
> And just to drive home this point, take a look at Pike's Peak Marathon, one of the hardest marathons in the world with almost 8,000ft vertical gain. If I were to go by Stefan's logic, then this marathon would be an acceptable course for this record because it starts at 6,300 and ends at 6,345. 45ft total gain? I'M SIGNING UP!



Any course that starts and ends in the same place has an average gradient of 0%. If you have a turn around point in a marathon, that is mainly downhill there and uphill back you can find the gradient of the highest point and lowest point, but that is not average gradient. Which is what I believe the rules specify for the coarse. Gradient = net elevation gain or loss / total distance traveled, They have this rule in place for marathons that do not start and end in the same place, that is what i read the ruling as but this is a vague ruling over the course.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 5, 2014)

Stefan said:


> Acting like that is a rather bad idea if you're the one who's wrong. Especially if the results of your lmgtfy don't cover the issue or disagree with you.



Hey you know what, you're right, acting like that is a bad idea, regardless of whether you're right or wrong. What a shame you still act like that in 99% of your posts, I can imagine how unpleasant of a person that makes you out to be.

I apologize for the condescension on a matter that really doesn't matter, it seems I fell victim to Stefan's usual and unnecessary troll-like nitpicking. Enabling trollish behavior, by accusing me of being wrong without explaining why of offering a clearer explanation, and instead argumentatively questioning my sources, is certainly not the way to be conducive to a thread so please stop posting.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 5, 2014)

Shane said:


> The guidance I got was that the record had to be performed on a certified marathon course, which usually requires a flat course, or at least a course that finishes the final mile on an uphill grade.



Thanks I'm gonna go with this interpretation.


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## tseitsei (Sep 5, 2014)

Bunyanderman;101372.Gradient = net elevation gain or loss / total distance traveled[/QUOTE said:


> This is what net gradient actually means. So stefan is right. Please don't argue anymore because this really is what NET GRADIENT means.
> 
> Also Stefan is hardly ever trolling in any thread. Merely correcting facts that people usually get wrong...


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 11, 2014)

Ok so after all this, and though Stefan may be right, Guinness has approved the Canyon City Marathon:



> Dear Phillip Espinoza,
> 
> The Canyon City Marathon will be acceptable for this record attempt. Please note that this record is for a full marathon and not a half marathon.
> 
> ...



Is Guinness as stupid as I am, or do they realize the course doesn't necessarily meet their general requirements for "fastest marathon"? Maybe because they are general and because of what qq said, it wouldn't make much of a difference speed wise as I'm not going for the speed record. But as I understand Stefan and the policy now, the course should be generally flat and start and end almost at the same elevation. 8 guess Guinness doesn't mind though. Should I just go with their approval or go with this flatter course I've been looking at under the idea that they just don't know their own regulations?


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## qqwref (Sep 12, 2014)

If you have time, I'd recommend replying with a mention of your concerns along with the elevation info you have, and asking if they could please double-check that the course is OK. Better safe than sorry.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 12, 2014)

qqwref said:


> If you have time, I'd recommend replying with a mention of your concerns along with the elevation info you have, and asking if they could please double-check that the course is OK. Better safe than sorry.



Right, I agree, which is why I made sure in my inquiry to specifically mention the regulation in question. Here is my original inquiry:



> ---------- Previous Message ----------
> Hello,
> 
> The marathon I was looking at for my initial attempt date on October 12, 2014, got back to me and declined approval for me the attempt the record at their event.
> ...



I sent them that link which has the course elevation on there, and sited the regulation that might affect the approval of the course. I thought this was clear enough, but maybe I should be more explicit?

EDIT: I will make sure by asking them again, with actual numbers, but the nature of their emails are no-reply so I can't just shoot back an email. I'd have to fill out another inquiry and wait 2-4 weeks for a response. But I feel like since I showed them the course, and since they approved it, they would be in the wrong for deciding the course wasn't legit after the fact.


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## Stefan (Sep 12, 2014)

I know you requested I stop posting, but I'd like to offer my thoughts anyway.

To me, their long response time sounds like they're overloaded. Possibly they're flooded by requests and don't have time to check everything properly. And they might spend more time to check actually executed record-breaking attempts, as there might be far fewer of those and it's more serious for them to publish a record than to say "yeah go ahead" in a private email. So I'd not just link to the marathon website but also clearly say that it's downhill (and by how much).

On the other hand, maybe I'm just paranoid and Guinness doesn't actually mind it being downhill (though then their rule is a complete mystery), the cube solving being the more important aspect. Also, in general I get the feeling that Guinness is getting more and more obsolete, thanks to other organizations and the internet as a whole (like records being at Wikipedia, or at WCA for cubing). So they ought to take every record they can still get


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## PhillipEspinoza (Oct 31, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDH5jAbf_Ko

16 days away. Made this cool little video. Check it out!


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## timeless (Oct 31, 2014)

anyone tried joggling while solving rubik's cube ?


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## Please Dont Ask (Oct 31, 2014)

timeless said:


> anyone tried joggling while solving rubik's cube ?



I have ....
But I failed


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## Randomno (Oct 31, 2014)

timeless said:


> anyone tried joggling while solving rubik's cube ?



I assume you mean juggling...

Chris Olson (I think it's him) can do a 2x2 OH while juggling in the other hand. There's some guy who can solve 3 3x3s whilst juggling them, and can juggle about 6 cubes max.


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## Chenkar (Oct 31, 2014)

Randomno said:


> I assume you mean juggling...
> 
> Chris Olson (I think it's him) can do a 2x2 OH while juggling in the other hand. There's some guy who can solve 3 3x3s whilst juggling them, and can juggle about 6 cubes max.



no he means joggling:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joggling

I want to, but i gotta juggle first

Edit: Dat epic face on de wikis!!


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## Stefan (Oct 31, 2014)

Randomno said:


> I assume you mean juggling...



And you give others lmgtfys...


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## Randomno (Oct 31, 2014)

Stefan said:


> And you give others lmgtfys...



http://bit.ly/1u2KDId

EDIT: Old link was a double redirect, didn't work though.


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## Bunyanderman (Nov 5, 2014)

ChickenWrap said:


> I was actually going to attempt this record this year but my goal was 500 cubes....I probably shouldn't bother now
> 
> As for advice, I am a very strong cyclist (ie *I can hold 24+mph for over 50 miles*) and from my cycling experience, I think that anyone who is in reasonable shape could *pedal the pedicab at 5.5mph for a 5 hour effort!* I would actually volunteer to pedal it but I live 800 miles away!!


Tell me when you go pro and get sponsored please. Technically weight does not affect constant motion at all, all energy is lost to friction, probably 70% fluid, and 30% rolling. Moving a bike at 6mph only needs like 25w, if that. With 1000 pounds it should be about 75w, due to extra rolling resistance and bearing friction. Once you hit a 1% grade, you need about 3x the wattage. So if it was flat it would still be easy. (200w is baseline for a in shape cyclist, over a 1 hour period).


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## ChickenWrap (Nov 5, 2014)

Bunyanderman said:


> Tell me when you go pro and get sponsored please. Technically weight does not affect constant motion at all, all energy is lost to friction, probably 70% fluid, and 30% rolling. Moving a bike at 6mph only needs like 25w, if that. With 1000 pounds it should be about 75w, due to extra rolling resistance and bearing friction. Once you hit a 1% grade, you need about 3x the wattage. So if it was flat it would still be easy. (200w is baseline for a in shape cyclist, over a 1 hour period).



Dude, I race at the national level. I actually train for cycling and 200w is a baseline for your average joe. My average wattage is significantly higher than 200w, even for mutltiple hours of cycline. I don't know why you felt that need to bring this up literally months after I posted, but oh well.

Good luck with the attempt!! I hope you succeed and will be looking for your result!


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## Bunyanderman (Nov 5, 2014)

ChickenWrap said:


> Dude, I race at the national level. I actually train for cycling and 200w is a baseline for your average joe. My average wattage is significantly higher than 200w, even for mutltiple hours of cycline. I don't know why you felt that need to bring this up literally months after I posted, but oh well.
> 
> Good luck with the attempt!! I hope you succeed and will be looking for your result!


Sorry I just thought it was funny, doing 50 miles in 2 hours is extremely fast! Not disputing your claims, this would definitely put you near the pro level. I would sure hope you can hold more than 200w for those speeds, you would need about 350w.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Nov 15, 2014)

New world record 839 cubes 4:56:01


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## qqwref (Nov 15, 2014)

Awesome!


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## supercavitation (Nov 15, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> New world record 839 cubes 4:56:01



Very impressive!


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## Tim Major (Nov 15, 2014)

Congrats dude!


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## blade740 (Nov 16, 2014)

So close to the deadline. Did you wait near the end and just keep solving as many cubes as you could until you reached 5 hours? Or did you just pace yourself the whole race?


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## rebucato314 (Nov 16, 2014)

Good job! What is your strategy?


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## amostay2004 (Nov 16, 2014)

Congrats..but wasn't your goal to reach at least 1,000 cubes? What went wrong?


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## PhillipEspinoza (Nov 16, 2014)

45 degree weather made the first hour particularly hard and had to wear fingerless gloves which slowed down a lot of those solves. We also had 2 people from the crew not make it so we had to make ends meet with 2 of my non cuber people and because 90% of the race including the place we stayed at didn't have cell or Internet service whatsoever (didn't know till we got there) we weren't able to use the timer that would've given me a better idea of how many cubes I was ahead or behind and my pace running with regard to that. 

Overall I tried solving while running the entire time, of course there were times where I had to eat refuel and drink so that probably took some time away from solving. I had a camelbak along with a cooler full of Gatorade and food and stuff but neither of those made it to the starting line. Plan was to keep sipping as I was solving to save time but instead aid stations became a regular thing. There were times where I ran a mile or 2 at 7-8 minute pace without solving to catch up as we were trying our best to guess my actual time (GPS watch was started late). Overall it went really well though. It's really not as easy as you would think.

839 solves
20 skips
4 drops
0 pops
15 cubes (moyus and liyings from speedcubeshop)


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## newtonbase (Nov 16, 2014)

Do you think you'll ever try it again?


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## Stefan (Nov 16, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> It's really not as easy as you would think.



Lol...
Yeah, I and probably everyone else totally thought this is easy. Not.

Too bad you didn't reach your goal, but congrats on the achievement anyway. I mean, still the record by far, and very impressive.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Nov 18, 2014)

newtonbase said:


> Do you think you'll ever try it again?



Never say never but I think since I have picked up other hobbies and interests it has been hard enough to get me to pick up a cube these days so this will most likely be a one-time thing (unless someone decides they want to do 840+ cubes in a sub-5 marathon). 



Stefan said:


> Lol...
> Yeah, I and probably everyone else totally thought this is easy. Not.
> 
> Too bad you didn't reach your goal, but congrats on the achievement anyway. I mean, still the record by far, and very impressive.



Yeah it would have been awesome to reach 1,000 and it would have been very doable I'm convinced if it weren't for the cold weather and other circumstances. I just meant it's not as easy as the 21-seconds per cube average would make it seem. 

Did you know:

-Downhill running is no joke. Especially on your quads.
-OH THIS IS AN A-PERM! I KNOW THAT ONE!
-J-perms were the most common PLL (BY FAR). Maybe 100 total?
-I did Green cross about 3 times?
-I incorporated ZBF2L and ZBLL maybe about 10 times. 
-I DIDN'T TRIP OR FALL!
-I kinda ran into someone as I was speeding up but just barely really.
-There were maybe two 8-second solves that were LOL crazy. This was no-inspection too.
-This whole thing almost didn't happen because my official bib was nowhere to be found until 10 minutes before start time.
-Race officials suggested I start asking people for their own bib, and they would change the name afterwards online. 
-After so many no's, someone literally ALMOST gave me their bib until Whitney showed up with mine. 
-Everett and Michael are AMAZING BEAT BOXERS/HUMAN DUBSTEP BOOMBOXES. 
-Cubing with gloves (even if fingerless) is a handicap all on it's own. 
-I don't even remember what the scenery looked like. But apparently it was beautiful. 
-We had maybe 10 corner twists.
-The cubes were AMAZING otherwise. Seriously, speedcubeshop.com :tu
-It was a point to point race with no shuttle back up to the starting line after.
-I should've cubed an extra 3 minutes and 50 seconds to get in at least 11 more solves to make it 850.


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## rybaby (Nov 18, 2014)

To combat the cold issue, you could always try this in the summer sometime if you ever want to do it again, and maybe that would help the cold hands and gloves issue. I think you have a pretty safe record though!


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## rebucato314 (Nov 23, 2014)

The record is not updated at the official guinness world record site!


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## pdilla (Nov 25, 2014)

COngrats!!!


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## Douf (Feb 22, 2017)

Just curious if anyone out there has any information on why this record was not ratified by Guinness, because this is actually not a Guinness World Record (which is sad, because he obviously crushed it). They won't tell me why since it's in relation to another person's attempt/claim, they just said "the record you see on our site is the official record that stands", (that would be Shane White's record of around 170). I can't get a hold of Philip or anyone related to his claim. Please, any info would be great!


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