# Why is "F2L" a "method"?



## Tetris Cube (Mar 2, 2009)

From what I understand, F2L only stands for first two layers. I'm familiar with the system associated with said term, but isn't the specific method Fridrich F2L? Petrus F2L and keyhole F2L are also first two layer methods, are they not?


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 2, 2009)

F2L describes the first two layers, it is not a method, but part of one


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## shelley (Mar 2, 2009)

It's not. It just refers to the first two layers of the cube.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 2, 2009)

the F2L is a part of each speedcubing method


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## toast (Mar 2, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> the F2L is a part of each speedcubing method



Roux? 10char


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 2, 2009)

come again toast? im not to familliar with block building methods


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## pcharles93 (Mar 2, 2009)

Or Google. Block building methods are speedcubing methods too. I'll let someone else handle the specifics of Roux.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 2, 2009)

so confused


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## Tetris Cube (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm just referring to how people call the F part in the CFOP method F2L and ONLY mean one kind of F2L.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 2, 2009)

ohhh, soo far the most efficient methods stick to building a 2x3x3 block (somehow) and then the LL, or edges of the LL


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## Tetris Cube (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm not talking about the efficiency of methods, you can't really say that making two layers is the most efficient anyway. That depends on a lot of factors. I just don't understand why people say F2L and are method specific (Fridrich).


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## ConnorCuber (Mar 2, 2009)

It's simple. Only noobs do that.


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## Tetris Cube (Mar 2, 2009)

Fair enough. lol


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 2, 2009)

who you callin a n00b?


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## DAE_JA_VOO (Mar 2, 2009)

ConnorCuber said:


> It's simple. Only noobs do that.



Yep. As pointed out, F2L refers to the first two layers, and that's ALL. Only a n00b will call it a method.


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## qqwref (Mar 2, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> the F2L is a part of each speedcubing method





miniGOINGS said:


> ohhh, soo far the most efficient methods stick to building a 2x3x3 block (somehow) and then the LL, or edges of the LL


I don't know what to do with someone who's so completely wrong ?_?


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## DavidWoner (Mar 2, 2009)

Tetris Cube said:


> I'm just referring to how people call the F part in the CFOP method F2L and ONLY mean one kind of F2L.



you can't look at only the F part. because you have already built the Cross, the F can only mean Fridrich F2L.


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## TheBB (Mar 2, 2009)

F2L means either the first two layers, or the step (presumably a substep of a greater method) of solving those layers, or the method of solving them using cross + four C/E pairs, in which case it's "Fridrich F2L", but it's almost synonymous with F2L in common usage anyway. So it's context specific...



miniGOINGS said:


> the F2L is a part of each speedcubing method


This is what he's referring to. There are numerous methods that do not construct the F2L explicitly.


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## Robert-Y (Mar 3, 2009)

How would you people define a "method" in speedcubing?


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## Tetris Cube (Mar 3, 2009)

The only thing I mean is when people say F2L like it is a method or a step that's exclusive to a method. 

For example: A beginner asks how to get faster on the cube. One replies, "Learn 4 look LL, then learn F2L." The problem is... WTF is F2L? Are you talking about Petrus F2L? Keyhole, Fridrich, any of the last slot variants? Just a gripe of mine.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 3, 2009)

couldnt roux and waterman be considered to have F2L as well? same with heise and MLGS


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## Tetris Cube (Mar 3, 2009)

Roux doesn't have an F2L step, you solve two 1x2x3 blocks, the corners, then the M layer and the other two edges. The M layer would be part of F2L. Waterman is corners first, isn't it? Logically thinking, where is the F2L being built until the end? Heise does have an F2L step. MLGS is just a last slot variant, I think. But this is all really besides the point.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 3, 2009)

yea, but every method has its own type of F2L,, solved somewhere in the method


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## Tetris Cube (Mar 3, 2009)

F2L is a part of the cube, of course it has to be solved somewhere. But when solving the cube, I would think F2L assumes a scrambled U layer. It really can't be a part of a method (a specific step) if it's in the middle or at the end.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 3, 2009)

true,, but does a layer have to be described as a physical part of the cube??


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## Tetris Cube (Mar 3, 2009)

Well... yes, in fact, it does. I don't see how it wouldn't be anyway. But this REALLY isn't the point of my topic.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 3, 2009)

sorry,, i mostly think of the cude as something animate, something pseudophysical and psycological


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## AvGalen (Mar 3, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> sorry,, i mostly think of the cude as something animate, something pseudophysical and psycological


And with that one comment you have explained both your avatar and your lifestyle


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## brunson (Mar 3, 2009)

It's a matter of context and nomenclature. Many methods solve two layers completely before solving the last layer. If I'm talking about LBL or Petrus I would say "complete your first two layers". 

Though it *may* be used in the aforementioned context, many (and I might be tempted to say, "most") people familiar with the nomenclature use the abbreviation F2L to refer to the specific CFOP step of solving the first two layers after cross by inserting each edge and corner pair into their desired slot in a single algorithm.

Just as COLL could mean several different things with respect to orienting corners in the last layer, when properly used in our forum the term refers to the specific technique of solving the last layer corners while preserving edge orientation. I take deference to people using the term F2L to mean all but last layer, but I usually just chalk it up to ignorance or inexactness and let it slide. 

However, I'm a mathematician, a programmer and a grammar pedant, so I take issue with a lot of inexactness and I'm used to letting it slide. I rarely point these things out unless it's adding confusion to a conversation.


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## badmephisto (Mar 4, 2009)

i use f2l all the time to refer to "fridrich f2l"
maybe we should just call fridrich f2l the "ff2l" with the first f being for fridrich? haha

but then instead of 1000 people confused about what f2l means we will get 2000 people confused about what ff2l means!  Its a loosing battle


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## Hadley4000 (Mar 5, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> yea, but every method has its own type of F2L,, solved somewhere in the method



*Facepalm*


No, that's not true. Roux does not use F2L, as stated(But obviously not retained) before.


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## fanwuq (Mar 5, 2009)

Hadley4000 said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > yea, but every method has its own type of F2L,, solved somewhere in the method
> ...



Actually in Roux, you do complete the first 2 Layers before you finish the whole cube. They are just on the R and L sides, not D and E layers. 

I can only think of Tripod and Heise as methods that are very likely to finish the whole cube without finishing 2 layers first.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 5, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > sorry,, i mostly think of the cude as something animate, something pseudophysical and psycological
> ...



finnaly someone understands


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 5, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Hadley4000 said:
> 
> 
> > miniGOINGS said:
> ...



couldnt the F2L of a method be U and R? like in some sort of antipetrus??


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## Tetris Cube (Mar 5, 2009)

It could be, that that seems really dumb and counterproductive in relation to block building. Or even if it could be done efficiently, your antipetrus finish would take a ridiculous amount of algorithms because you closed off two entire sides to expand your block. 

Tripod and Heise sort of have the normal F2L, they both have F2L minus one slot at one point. But in terms of completion, they get other stuff done before finishing the last slot, so objectively they have more than F2L done when finishing their F2L.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 5, 2009)

how true,, that would be a monster to finish!!


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