# 5-style method pros and cons



## abunickabhi (Mar 31, 2019)

All the best if you plan on giving this method a shot!

Resources and links:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x-gGoO4mzYkHuQoZXQcvrQLDLU_x_UYb460y58OJ8ss/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b3tT8Wv18WdzFyY7FujyptwzYeWFH8K-UXTddTvwUWw/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bfDsydw6pxBftd8Xwik95FNjILGkdrJMBO5EORbftII/edit?usp=sharing

Edit: The video above is a bit outdated, I have made a better one, updated according to the progress made until the year 2021. Its later in the thread, and if you cannot find it, its the video on the main page of '5AlgSolve' YT channel.

Happy 5-styling!


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## Underwatercuber (May 14, 2019)

abunickabhi said:


> All the best if you plan on giving this method a shot!
> 
> More resources after you watch this video and if you have lot of free time coming up:
> 
> ...


Bunch of random questions and critique. 



Has any research been done with different buffers? On your document you make it sound like the only reason you are pushing DF/DFR is because that is what you started with. I feel like even if difference is negligible between buffers for 5style it would make the most sense to use UF/UFR so you can fill in the gaps where you don’t know the 5style cases with the best algs. 



Wouldn’t it make more sense to move the 5style algs over to a google sheet? Right now it’s a huge list that’s difficult to navigate but with sheets you could make 26 tabs (what the first target of the 5cycle is) and it would make it a lot easier to sort through. You could also enable commenting so people could suggest good algs that they find. 



Also have some critiques for the 5 year plan 



Year 1 - remove the music stuff, not really pertinent to cubing. Just practicing cubing will make their fingers more nimble.

Year 2 - recommends orozco and then 3style with UF UFR, if the method uses DF DFR then their 3style should probably reflect that. 

Year 3 - no comment

Year 4 - that’s a LOT of algs, even with memoing with quads that’s 164 algs per day. Wouldn’t it make sense to spread it out a bit more and maybe combine some previous years or maybe learn letter quads as you learn 5style? I feel like the rate they have to work at is a bit too much and is going to cause the few people who may attempt to learn this set to burn out. 

Year 5 - drill all algs and make them sub 1 on the gikker cube. I don’t think most of these algs are sub 1able. Do you plan fixing the algs yourself or having others contribute to your alg database?


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## WoowyBaby (May 14, 2019)

Is this real?
Isn’t there already ~800 cases for 3-style, and how many for 5-style? 100,000?


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## Underwatercuber (May 14, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Is this real?
> Isn’t there already ~800 cases for 3-style, and how many for 5-style? 100,000?



Yes but I’m not sure if it’s doable/viable 

378 for corners, 440 edges. Not too crazy since it’s intuitive. Full floating is 2768 which only a few people know or are close to knowing still intuitive though.

5style is almost never intuitive and has about 12600 edge algorithms and about 80000 corner algs. 

Just for references on big alg sets zbll is 493 and 1LLL is 3915


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## WoowyBaby (May 14, 2019)

I know that 3-style algs are pretty intuitive and short so that learning all 818 cases is not all that hard, much easier than ZBLL despite having “only” 493 algs.

But if 5-style algorithms aren’t intuitive comms like 3-style is, and the algs are longer, then 5-style is actually the equivalent of learning ZBLL times 190.

And also memory retention would be practically impossible because you run into each case like what.... in 0.00005% of solves?

If you want to make a breakthrough in blind solving, then it’ll have to be something other than 5-style...


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## abunickabhi (May 16, 2019)

Thanks for the critique, Samuel.
I do not plan on using the DF/DFR buffer for 5-Style. No way, DFR is a too ancient buffer and 5 cycle algs with it are bad.

In fact, two 3-Style corners algs are already faster than one 5-Style alg. I stackmatted and saw it. (So, the end goal is to have floating/UFR repertoire with floating 5-style edge algs and UFR corners) For the time being UF 5-cycles excluding the DF piece is not being developed.

The good thing about 5 Style is that UF and DF both share the same buffer in many cases like 20-30% of them. So we can have the same algorithm for the UF, that the DF has which involves the UF piece.

I intend to share the google sheet by next year and help other people contribute to better algs and also UF specific algs which do not involve the DF buffer, which I can treat as floating algs if I stick to UF. This is a personal endeavor as of now, and I personally prefer DF over UF although it does not make that much of a difference for 5-Style as compared to 3-Style (DF vs UF).

I just created this thread to get the opinion of BLDers on whether they will be willing to accept this idea in the future if this method gets developed and simplified. But for the proof of concept, I want to keep it personal for a year and get good official results using these algorithms and memorization techniques.

I have been making Letter quads for the last 3 years and have already improved my memo significantly. For the execution part in year 5, I think most of the algs are sub-1 able, and I will try and grind to get there.


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## mark49152 (May 16, 2019)

abunickabhi said:


> But for the proof of concept, I want to keep it personal for a year and get good official results using these algorithms and memorization techniques.


That's a good approach. You'll gain way more credibility if you can prove it is feasible before you advocate it.


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## cuber314159 (May 16, 2019)

I don't know much about blind but why don't you just do 4style instead?


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## Thom S. (May 16, 2019)

cuber314159 said:


> I don't know much about blind but why don't you just do 4style instead?



Old Pochmann is a 2-cycle method, meaning you cycle 2 Pieces and solve one at a time - this only works if you also permute an even number of pieces of the other type (3BLD only for simplification, Corners and Edges)
Now 3-Style up's things by cycling 3 pieces and solving 2 (Orozko and Eka left out for simplification) at a time by using commutators. Now, 4-Style would go back to the old formula OP uses which would be basically a downgrade again from 5-Style and it's commutatorish properties. Not to mention Parity is nicer to deal with (if 5-style would be adopted before full Parity)


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## Underwatercuber (May 16, 2019)

Thom S. said:


> Old Pochmann is a 2-cycle method, meaning you cycle 2 Pieces and solve one at a time - this only works if you also permute an even number of pieces of the other type (3BLD only for simplification, Corners and Edges)
> Now 3-Style up's things by cycling 3 pieces and solving 2 (Orozko and Eka left out for simplification) at a time by using commutators. Now, 4-Style would go back to the old formula OP uses which would be basically a downgrade again from 5-Style and it's commutatorish properties. Not to mention Parity is nicer to deal with (if 5-style would be adopted before full Parity)


It’s less algs than 5style and is just as intuitive, it’s definitely more doable so I could see that becoming a thing before 5style. You could even end up using it as parity for some cases you would run into if you did learn 5style


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## Thom S. (May 16, 2019)

Underwatercuber said:


> It’s less algs than 5style and is just as intuitive, it’s definitely more doable so I could see that becoming a thing before 5style. You could even end up using it as parity for some cases you would run into if you did learn 5style



Less algs is true, I didn't think of that but please elaborate on how it's just as intuitive.
Using it as Parity would defenitely be possible, but we have to see if for the majority of cases doing a 4-Style alg is faster than doing one comm and a Parity algorithm


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## New Generation of cubers (May 16, 2019)

Wow, thanks I inproved a lot.


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## abunickabhi (Jun 5, 2019)

FInalllyyyyyyyyyyyyyy,

Sharing my 5-cycle sheet from both DF and UF buffer.

Let's keep the debate of doable or not doable aside and let's start contributing.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/158F-jyu8ld8kbdD4I_Lqy4fsX5vvp_MQOq7Ofg8NdSI/edit?usp=sharing

Please do contribute algs, I am sharing the entire sheet, there is either DF 5-cycles or UF 5-cycles that you can find and contribute.

If contributing one alg at a time is cumbursome, join my discord server rouxnblind, and contribute there.
Your inputs are vital since this algset is huge.

The lettering scheme used here is not speffz so please keep that in mind yo!


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## u Cube (Jun 5, 2019)

an alg a day keeps noobness away


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## mark49152 (Jun 5, 2019)

u Cube said:


> an alg a day keeps noobness away


An alg a day keeps you busy for 345 years


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 5, 2019)

abunickabhi said:


> Let's keep the debate of doable or not doable aside and let's start contributing.


Yes, let’s definitely use our energy contributing to something that is not even usable....?

Doesn’t make sense to me.


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Jun 6, 2019)

Guys seriously, stop w/ all the ridicule. For all we know in 5 years this could be the next big thing in blidnsolving.


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 6, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> Guys seriously, stop w/ all the ridicule. For all we know in 5 years this could be the next big thing in blidnsolving.


Way more than that because it takes 5 years just to learn all the algs

Let’s find something else that will revolutionize blind solving


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## mark49152 (Jun 6, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> Guys seriously, stop w/ all the ridicule. For all we know in 5 years this could be the next big thing in blidnsolving.


If someone posts an idea into a public forum, they should expect scrutiny and feedback. That is kind of the point, isn't it? Otherwise they could choose to keep their work private.

In this case, the idea of learning edge 5style by brute force and posting one alg a day on YouTube is, frankly, ridiculous. You may be right that 5cycles become a thing in blindsolving, but for that to happen, someone will have to find a more ingenious and realistic approach. @abunickabhi has been challenged to do that, but there's no sign of it yet.

(Finally, "ridicule" implies mocking and disrespect. While there may be some light-hearted mocking here, I don't see any serious disrespect and certainly don't intend any in my posts. @abunickabhi is an accomplished and knowledgeable blindsolver and I respect him for that; a respect which extends to giving him credit that he can accept criticism of his ideas.)


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## abunickabhi (Jun 6, 2019)

Yes agree, I have still not come up with an ingenious and realistic approach. But, by open sourcing, I am hoping some selfless contributors will help make this algset complete and then easier. 

There are many challenges in the world that seem impossible (send a man to the moon, internet over the entire planet, curing cancer) but with a few years of invested time and collective effort, it becomes mainstream and widely adapted.


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## mark49152 (Jun 6, 2019)

abunickabhi said:


> There are many challenges in the world that seem impossible (send a man to the moon, internet over the entire planet, curing cancer) but with a few years of invested time and collective effort, it becomes mainstream and widely adapted.


Such things involve judgment, planning and innovation as well as investment of effort. There are reasons we haven't built a city on the moon yet.

As I'm sure I've said before, I'm excited to see you pushing the limits and would love to see you come up with something useful. The best contribution I can make today is to point out the folly of trying to brute-force 5-style, and encourage you to approach it differently.

Personally I think the most promising way to explore 5-style would be to focus on the 4-movers plus a systematic method of setting up other cases to those, with the objective of maximising the number of cases covered. That way, you stand a better chance of achieving a reasonable move count benefit while keeping an intuitive approach to aid with learning and recall. I'm just not sure a significant enough proportion of cases could be covered with manageable effort, but it's worth a try. You could also try cancelling 4-movers into adjacent 3-cycles, e.g. solve ABCD as (ABCE)(ED).

Edit with example: 
[M', U] solves IADM speffz. IADF could be solved with (IADM)(MF) where MF is [U: [M', U L' U']. 

(M' U M U')(U M' U L' U' M U L U2) = M' U2 L' U' M U L U2 = [M', U2 L' U']


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## abunickabhi (Jun 13, 2019)

This video is to make sure everyone is on the same page on how it is, and how this method is not for everyone.


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## Seniorcuber (Dec 9, 2019)

I find the idea good, but not the approach.

Also, the number of cases should not be the main argument. Rather, is it possible to find a well structured method that enables us to tackle all cases with just a few algorithms and less or equal than three or max four setup moves.

I don't think someone learned an algorithm for each of the 440 edge 3-cycle perms. I am using a variation of the TuRBo method. 3 algorithms with their mirror and inverse (2+2+4=8), 3 edges (=6 stickers) affected, of which each can coincide with the buffer (8x6=48) cover 48 out of 440 possible permutations, and the 392 remaining can be solved with obvious setup moves (1 or 2, at max 3).
I learned 3 algorithms to solve the 440 permutations.

Nobody will learn the sheer number of 126 720 permutations. But it should be possible to reduce that number to a set of algorithms of a reasonable size, together with simple rules to determine the algorithm, its orientation and setup moves.

The algorithm MBM'B' has 8 variations (a mirror, an inverse and a double MBM'B'MBM'B'). It affects 5 edges with 10 stickers and can thus solve 80 permutations. With an AUF-move (B, B' and B2), it can solve 80x4 = 360 permutations.

There's another 'simplification' I'm thinking of : instead of considering sticker-permutations, we could consider piece-permutations, and keep track of orientation separately. The number of permutations solved with one algorithm increases : there are 2^5 = 32 sticker-perms for one piece-perm. The 8 variations cover 4 piece-perms, they affect 5 pieces and with an AUF-move, this covers 4×5×4×32 = 2560 sticker-perms.

Here is an outline of the method :

Solve piece-permutation, minimizing edge flips.
Looking at the 5 pieces involved (buffer + letter quartets), determine the setup moves needed to have four pieces on the same plane and one on the opposite side.
Determine the AUF-move and the variation of the algorithm required. There are two solutions for each piece-perm. Choose the one that results in less remaining flipped edges.
Keep track of the edges that have the wrong orientation (11 bits of information for the whole cube. Should be doable).

If there's a remaining 3-cycle, do it.
Orient flipped edges with algs of the 3EO method.
Handle parity, if necessary.

There are still missing pieces :

- How to handle breaking into a new cycle
- There are 6 permutations of 4 pieces on the same plane, given the starting point. This alg only covers 4 of them.

Nevertheless, I think this is a good starting point for tackling the problem of 5-style.
What is your opinion?


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Dec 9, 2019)

Seniorcuber said:


> I find the idea good, but not the approach.
> 
> Also, the number of cases should not be the main argument. Rather, is it possible to find a well structured method that enables us to tackle all cases with just a few algorithms and less or equal than three or max four setup moves.
> 
> ...


I think this is a very good idea (although it got kinda deep to where I didnt understand to well but we’ll ignore that.) That would make it a lot less algs and not be as fast but still faster than 3-style if there was enough practice put into it.


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## One Wheel (Dec 9, 2019)

5-style bigBLD centers seem like a much more feasible application than anything 3BLD.


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## dudefaceguy (Apr 10, 2020)

I just solved edges using 5-style intuitively, which was fun. I used DF as the buffer (U in speffz) and I conjugated the other 4 of the pieces onto the U face, making the cycle I A B E (or inversions). I solved both cases with M' U M U' (or inversions). It required very long conjugates, which I remembered without writing them down surprisingly. The first alg had a 5 or 6 move conjugate, and the second had a 7 move conjugate. I performed them in a systematic way so that it was easy to reverse them (with my eyes open, anyhow).

This amounted to about 14 moves for the first cycle and 18 moves for the second, though I probably could have canceled a few. If we say 30 moves to solve 10 pieces that's 3 moves per piece - still obviously more move-efficient than 3-cycles even with my gigantic conjugates.

Since the cycles are very easy and intuitive, it might be worthwhile to learn a partial set for a few cases that can be recognized easily. I'm a super slow noob though, so I don't really know what I'm talking about. Anyhow, it was fun executing the edge solve.

Using 5 style for corners seems less useful and more difficult, since the algs are not intuitive, and there are only 8 corners so you will save 1 commutator per solve at most.

Also, how does 5 style deal with 2 cycle breaks in the same 5 piece cycle? It seems to be that you can't solve C A B A with a 4-move commutator because you need to use the same sticker twice.



One Wheel said:


> 5-style bigBLD centers seem like a much more feasible application than anything 3BLD.



I use 4-move commutators to solve up to 6 pieces in my big-cube method, which leaves partial centers last. My method sets up to easy 4 movers since it leaves half-centers unsolved until the last step, when they are solved with commutators. It seems like they would require extensive conjugates to get all of the pieces in the right place if all of the center pieces were unsolved.


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## abunickabhi (May 2, 2020)

Hi dudefaceguy,

Many of the 5 cycle algs have gigantic conjugates. I agree with that. The average count right now is 10.4 moves STM after covering 60k cases (halfway there)

I am focussing a lot of fingertricks and fingertrickablity of the 10STM move alg, so that it can be faster than 2 3-style algs.


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## abunickabhi (May 11, 2020)

I am closing onto 60k edge algs with UF buffer. This quarantine time is really helping me develop 5-style algorithm more. Can anyone help me make a JavaScript Trainer, so that people can start practising specific subsets of 5-style?


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## TerryD (Aug 7, 2020)

60, 000 algs... that means you've been learning an average of more than 100 algs every day. did you learn all of them with Yo notation? is there any website where i can turn a normal alg into a Yo notation alg? I want to try learning zbll with yo notation.


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## qwr (Aug 7, 2020)

Underwatercuber said:


> Also have some critiques for the 5 year plan


Is this Soviet Russia or something? 5 year plans don't work


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## abunickabhi (Sep 8, 2020)

TerryD said:


> 60, 000 algs... that means you've been learning an average of more than 100 algs every day. did you learn all of them with Yo notation? is there any website where i can turn a normal alg into a Yo notation alg? I want to try learning zbll with yo notation.



ZBLL with Yo notation doesn't work that well, as it is mostly RUF or 2-gen (2GLL). Whereas in 5-cycles, the algs are generally RUFD + MES (slice moves), so the Yo notation is more varied up, and can be broken down into letter pairs/triads/quads and memorised. ZBLL with Yo notation isnt the best idea, sticking with triggers like RUR'U' and chunking them is the best way to go.


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## abunickabhi (Sep 8, 2020)

The UF video playlist has almost grown to 200 videos now yay. Still a long way for the best fingertricks being shown for each alg in video form.


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## abunickabhi (Sep 21, 2020)

This lockdown has proved to be fruitful for my 5-style quest. I was in two minds always, one mind thinking that method will not give any returns, and the other was that this method will just restructure the human brain, as to how we consume information and the thin line between memorisation and understanding a thing fully that we are able to reconstruct it.

This idea has been bugging me since 2014 but it has always been fuzzy in my mind, and I was not confident enough in 3-cycles and all the other tricks involved in 3BLD exec. But now atleast I have a brief idea about all the stuff like full floating, so I have a reference point to compare.

I know my approach might not be the best to tackle such a big algset, I have chosen randomized way of reassuring the idea that I have for each letter quad and each 5-cycle that I encounter, as per the memotool and the solves I do throughout the day.

I also made some roles for people to contribute to the 5-style endeavour without dealing with bare bone 10.5 STM algs, which are not fingertrick friendly at first.

The roles that I have formed currently are:
1) Fingertrick analyst 
2) Communication person (discord/YT/SS Forum) 
3) Mega-manual content writer 
4) Solve annotator 
5) Mnemonics and Letter Quads improvement engineer 

Still a long way to go before this method gains traction. As Mark Rivers said, there is a reason why people have not built a colony on moon. It is all about investment of time and effort and I fully understand that.

Making cubing much more richer is one aim, because the other mind sport that I practice seriously, chess has insane theory and great personalities who have contributed. Whereas in cubing only see people get one record and quit, get fast and attend major championships and quit and so on. 

Cubing is changing a lot with lot of US cubers getting sponsorships, and also the Rubik's brand kinda getting out of its slumber and using its marketing a bit (its not well directed and enough at all but that's my personal opinion).

I hope I get something out of this, and atleast people a linguist and my brain becomes a huge transfer learning framework.

Yo!


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## abunickabhi (Oct 27, 2020)

Recited part 1 of 20 of all the UF5 algs. Was a fun exercise to do. My letter quads also got revised.


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## abunickabhi (Jan 4, 2021)

The year 2021 has started. 

My current plans is to make more UF algs, and compared more UF5 alg drill time with the corresponding 2 3-style edge algs. I need to get more comfortable in my new system of letter quads + UF5 soon, since I plan to do a lot of attempts of MBLD. I think 3BLD is a good way to notice chances where you could use a 5-cycle that is familiar, easy and you have prepared. MBLD practice also helps as well, as we can do thorough post-mortem of each of the scrambles afterwards. 

I am excited to see how UF 5-cycle fares in the future. I also want to make a small subset of 5-cycles which are lesser than 10 moves STM, it will be good collection for people who don't want to learn the full set, but want fancy things in their solves. 3-style is always needed as a fall-back solution though, as a 3BLD scramble cannot be solved with pure 5-cycles, that's just not feasible.

Happy Cubing and happy new year, U' f' L' S L S' L' S L F U!


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## abunickabhi (Jan 30, 2021)

Finally an update video on the 5-style blindsolving method! (Last one was 2 years back, lot of new algs and features made)


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## abunickabhi (Feb 3, 2021)

Made tons of changes to the 5-style mega-manual documentation I had been writing since 2018.

It explains the back story, my motivation, example solves, feasibility and future scope.

I also talk about the 3 new concepts in more depth and clarity, in the mega-manual, Letter Quads, Yo notation and UF5 algs.When I introduced this concepts in 2018, I was not super descriptive and precise about them. I hope I am more precise in describing these ideas now.

Mega Manual


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## abunickabhi (Feb 3, 2021)

https://forms.gle/pdf7nvuAZi9keaXJ7

Feedback about the 5-style method

This form is intended to get the community's opinion on alg learning and big algsets like ZBLL, 1LLL and 5-style. Do these big algsets seem worth the effort? Is there enough returns that we get, on the amout of time we invest into these methods?


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## abunickabhi (Feb 4, 2021)

Just a sneak peek on how I go about generating these algorithms.


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## abunickabhi (Feb 11, 2021)

I am getting close to 105k letter quads on my sheet Took 1529 days to get here. Today is the 1530th day, I am developing 5style My speed has been 68 letter quads a day 2019 was the year, I did least contribution since I was very busy. 

105k LQs is really good, my 2017 version of me is super proud now. Also 20k UF5 cases are good. Its good that there are good cubers and non-blders who point out if the alg is not good, or not fingertrickable, and then I try to improve on those batch of algs.


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## abunickabhi (Feb 12, 2021)

_




i have even made a new intro, and added some new editing stuff to the video alg discussion.

i am also planning to do some 5-style video walkthrough solves this month.

It will help people make judgement on when to use it, how much to use it and when to resort to UF 3-style._


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## abunickabhi (Mar 10, 2021)

Crossed 109k Letter quads, 

My progress with letter quads and 5-style each year, 

end of 2016 *- 5k letter quads* all the easy MU gen algs and setup to that discovered and listed out, referred to Ishaan's algs and Oleg's algs and added them to my sheet. 

end of 2017 - *23k letter quads, * refuted viability of 5cycle corners, and focus now only on edges. Made a subset of 5-cycles only for Roux LSE. 

end of 2018 - *48k letter quads, * stopped genning DF buffer and focus solely on UF5. Discussion with Yongqiang peng, regarding the derivation of various categories of 5-cycles and mathematics of it (most of the comms are not of the form [A,B]). 

end of 2019 - *58k letter quads, * very less free time this year hence only 10k+ LQs added. Also I did not have a laptop, and had to save money to buy one so that I could start genning again. Drilling of algs, and comparing times with 2 3-style exec. 

end of 2020 - *97k letter quads, * thanks lockdown for creating lot of time. Coded some software for 5-style Yo notation, reconstructions, cube images, latex pdf export, keyboard cube trainer. Completed 17k UF5 algs which rotationless,speed optimal and have 0-2 regrips. 

March 2021- Currently at *109k letter quads* done!!! Yippee, near completion. All mirrors and inverses checked.


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## PCCuber (Mar 10, 2021)

Your dedication to this inspires me a lot. I haven't even learnt full Oll yet lol.


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## guelda (Mar 10, 2021)

Man this is motivation, you rocks! Definitely inspiring as PCCuber wrote.


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## abunickabhi (Apr 7, 2021)

Will be most likely be finishing with ABXX subset in video format (video of alg and its execution), by this summer. I would love if people are interested in contributing to the alg execution.

If you are interested in showing the fingertrick for any future case, and make a small video executing it 5 times, it will be much helpful. Most of the submissions for videos for non-ABXX cases will be handled on the #5style-fingertricks channel on the 5-style discord. I hope to see a few contributions.


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## abunickabhi (Apr 16, 2021)

The total hours upto the year 2020, that I have spent on making this method work is, 50 hours on fingertrick video making, 50 hours on documentation, 10 hours on kb trainer, 100 hours on software, 700 hours on making algs, 500 hours on stuff that I replaced later on, 1000 hours on letter quads making. I am not counting the time when I do background thinking of UF5, so overall about 100 days of human time has been spent till now. 

I hope my estimate is approximately correct.


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## abunickabhi (May 7, 2021)

After the release of Gil's software on fingertricks visualisation today, it will make my task of documenting fingertricks for UF5 set much easier. 






Until now, if I had to show the fingertrick for any 5-style edge alg, I would have to make a video about it, or write it down (less expressive way, and sometimes confusing). Now the role of the fingertrick analyst, is a bit easier. If anyone of you guys are interested, the job is to just see if the playout from the fingertrick lab has regrips, and how to remove those regrips by some fingertricks. 




I will be also changing the format of my each 5-style edge video on the 5AlgSolve channel, how instead of setup, and alg execution 5 times, I will include the screen grab from the speedcubestats window as well, at the end of each case video.


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## abunickabhi (May 17, 2021)

Good solve LLK!
First person other than me who has used a 5-cycle in a solve.

The alg used was: 



 (UF-UL-UB-BD-UR ), athough he traced it from the UB buffer.


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## abunickabhi (May 26, 2021)

Okay so I have finished shooting the entire ABXX series in video format. Editing it too just too much time (about 20 minutes per video). The videos will be released in sequence with frequency of one alg per day on the 5AlgSolve YT.

ACXX and ADXX video series will be much faster, fingers crossed.

Also, the video of all these algs are linked to the 5-style sheet, so you can just click on a case to view the fingertrick for the alg in video format.

Also, Letter Quads update, now I am currently at 113,286 today before going to sleep on 26th May 2021.
Cheers and Happy Summer!


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## abunickabhi (Jun 14, 2021)

I crossed 20k verified algs on my sheet today. So, 20k edges which are 5-cycles which I can say is quite good, and a bit faster than executing 2 3-style UF algs. 

Verifying 20k took about a year worth of time.


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 14, 2021)

abunickabhi said:


> After the release of Gil's software on fingertricks visualisation today, it will make my task of documenting fingertricks for UF5 set much easier.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sausage fingerrrs


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 14, 2021)

abunickabhi said:


> a bit faster than executing 2 3-style UF algs.


"memorizing 20k algs to be a bit faster than 3 style" - abunickabhi 2021


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## DuckubingCuber347 (Jun 15, 2021)

Just a bit.


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## abunickabhi (Jun 15, 2021)

Filipe Teixeira said:


> sausage fingerrrs


Maybe in future updates, Gils hires a computer graphics guys, and the person designs realistic fingers maybe, that look less like sausage.


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## abunickabhi (Jun 20, 2021)

Tried to compile some statistics today.

Total number of wide moves in my 5-style edge set = 4382/209073 = 2.095% (which is a lot less than the slice moves MES which constitute the major chunk of each alg.)
So, wide moves do exist, and they are quite fun to do, r and l are more common as compared to u and f. I try to avoid b,d wide moves as they are not fingertrickable.

Out of all the letter quads that I have annotated, about 37.8% represent *Object* images, 31.7% represent *action* images, 13.7% represent *Person* image, 6.5% represents an* emotion* or a human feeling, 5.6% represents *language* literal and 4.65% represents a *place* or a city. Cool stats indeed!


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## abunickabhi (Aug 8, 2021)

I have taken a bit of a break from pushing this algset, as I have a full time research job since June 2021.
There are still 180ish people in the discord helping me out clarify lot of letter quads and alg fingertrickability which is cool.

I think once comp come back in India in 2022 potentially, I would be interested to pursue this project a bit more.
I am happy to have spent time in UF5 since 2017. I just cannot believe that 2014 me thought of this idea. The idea of cycling 5 pieces is just insane ngl, R' F' S2 E R E' S R' f R.


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## DuckubingCuber347 (Aug 8, 2021)

I've always wondered, are the algs you have at the end of your posts a secret message or is it just a random 5-style alg?


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## abunickabhi (Aug 8, 2021)

TheCubingCuber347 said:


> I've always wondered, is the algs you have at the end of your posts a secret message or is it just a random 5-style alg?


It is not cryptic enough to hold a message. It is just a random case that I have on my mind while typing out something, R' D' M F M2 F' U2 M U2 D R.


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## abunickabhi (Aug 15, 2021)

Update:

I am not focussing on improving the alg quality nowadays as it is a laborious task.
I just try to do example solves using 5-style and post it on example solve threads on SS.


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## Cubing Forever (Aug 15, 2021)

abunickabhi said:


> I am not focussing on improving the alg quality nowadays as it is a laborious task.


I have an idea for that:
You could make an alg improvement channel on the 5-style discord and post a random case and it's alg everyday for people to improve on it. Just like how you do alg-of-the-day.


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## abunickabhi (Aug 15, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> I have an idea for that:
> You could make an alg improvement channel on the 5-style discord and post a random case and it's alg everyday for people to improve on it. Just like how you do alg-of-the-day.


Nice idea, created another channel called alg-improvement


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## abunickabhi (Oct 20, 2021)

Big news!

5-style documentation is getting a nice upgrade. All the stuff will be written now on readthedocs which is super neat way to create and maintain documentation.

https://5style-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

It is still in the works, I am learning bit of sphinx command line for this. 
I hope you guys get to enjoy the finished documentation some time!


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## Cubing Forever (Oct 20, 2021)

abunickabhi said:


> Big news!
> 
> 5-style documentation is getting a nice upgrade. All the stuff will be written now on readthedocs which is super neat way to create and maintain documentation.
> 
> ...


That is cool, but there's a correction required. It is *the* biggest algset in existence, not one of the biggest that exists.


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## Filipe Teixeira (Oct 20, 2021)

The documentation is beautiful! Keep it up!


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## abunickabhi (Jan 13, 2022)

Had some fun with the all the 5-style alg images that I had. It is fun to visualize how each piece swaps from case to case, U R2 F R U M' U' r' F' R2 U'.


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## abunickabhi (Jan 13, 2022)

Feedback time, thanks to all for giving me crucial and positive feedback. Also the people who were critical about the method and its scope.


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## abunickabhi (Jan 16, 2022)

Tried and failed executing some algs in a solve. Here is the video proof of me failing.


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## abunickabhi (Jan 24, 2022)

https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/∞-reasons-to-love-5-style.86200/

Show some love for the 5-style method here!


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## abunickabhi (Jan 26, 2022)

1880 days completed since I started out with 5-style. For the first couple of months, I was just trying out M U M' U' with various setups and finding images for letter quads ABXX.

So basically 19.3% of my lifetime, I have known about 5-style. But the time I have spent actively working on the set is ~4% of my waking time on earth.


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## abunickabhi (Mar 6, 2022)

Some 5-style MBLD analysis. Let me know if some calculation is wrong:

The average 3-cycle edge comm length is 8.6.
The average number of 5-cycles for a large sample size of edges of a 3x3 is ~2.5 algs per cube and for the same scramble we have remaining ~4.5 algs for 3-cycle of corners + last edge target(s).
The average edge comm length using 5-cycles is 10.6, so the solve length would roughly look like, 10.6x2.5 +8.6x4.5 = 26.5 + 38.7 = ~65.2 turns
For a 100 MBLD cube attempt, it would be 65.2x100 = 6520 turns

Let's say we have a pauseless execution speed of 10TPS, we can complete the execution in 652 seconds or 10.86 minutes leaving, 49 minutes for memorization of 100 cubes. Sounds reasonable to me!


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## BlindNerd (Mar 6, 2022)

well the 10 tps would account for stuff like picking up cubes though,


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## abunickabhi (Apr 14, 2022)

Finally back with fingertricking the algs and video documenting them yo!


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## abunickabhi (Jul 23, 2022)

Some cool advanced techniques shared by top BLDers at a seminar at NAC:

Grip cancelling - nice
Parity Shifting - nice
Buffer orientation tracking - I feel this is intermediate stuff.
Buffer order - CEEC/ECCE neutrality and full floating
Cycle break order - very important at the top level, best to make a sheet of drilled full floating and decide the order
Visual memo - already doing it since 2013 nothing new in this
Sandwich floating - ???
Block commutators - not viable other than the parity alg
4-flips - too rare to learn them up
Nested commutators - already used a lot in 5-style algs
Trace Neutrality - after full floating, how to trace the floating algs the quickest
Premoves to solve more pieces or avoid parity
T2C - 3 twisted corners+parity, super niche and wont occur in too many solves.
LTEF - very good last target + flipped edge, tough to gen good algs for this though
LTCT - used already by top solves, it is a good algset and easy to learn


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## cuberswoop (Jul 23, 2022)

abunickabhi said:


> 4-flips - too rare to learn them up


nobody:
Him: *learning hundreds of thousands of algs, all of which are 1/43,252,003,274,489,856,000 of a cube.
Also Him: eh, it's rare.


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## abunickabhi (Sep 2, 2022)

Algset at 1/4th scale. 
Mostly the 10 and 11 mover bump will look bigger in full scale.


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## Skewbed (Sep 2, 2022)

I think I've shared this idea on a discord server before, but thought it would be relevant here.

I feel like conjugated 5-style might be a more feasible approach to solving 4 pieces at a time.

Imagine using conjugates like in ayam/eka to set up a 5 cycle. It would be more like ayam since you are setting up 2 pieces, but then doing a subset of 5 style (with less algs than 3 style) to solve 4 pieces, and then undoing your setup moves.

It is less algs than 3 style and solves 4 pieces at a time, but the conjugation step is slow for setting up 2 pieces. I think that the best way to do it is just to do 2 3 style algs.


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## abunickabhi (Sep 3, 2022)

Skewbed said:


> I think I've shared this idea on a discord server before, but thought it would be relevant here.
> 
> I feel like conjugated 5-style might be a more feasible approach to solving 4 pieces at a time.
> 
> ...


The average alg length for "fingertrickable" 5-cycles is 10.38 STM. And after some stackmatting I found that it is about 40% faster than executing 2 3-style algs. So I will stick with UF5.

What is ayam method @Skewbed ? I know BOP, eka, orozco but hearing ayam for the first time.


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## Skewbed (Sep 4, 2022)

abunickabhi said:


> The average alg length for "fingertrickable" 5-cycles is 10.38 STM. And after some stackmatting I found that it is about 40% faster than executing 2 3-style algs. So I will stick with UF5.
> 
> What is ayam method @Skewbed ? I know BOP, eka, orozco but hearing ayam for the first time.


Ayam is when you set up two pieces at a time to a single 3 style case.
What I proposed is similar: set up two pieces and, and then use one of ~300 5 style cases.


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## abunickabhi (Sep 5, 2022)

Skewbed said:


> Ayam is when you set up two pieces at a time to a single 3 style case.
> What I proposed is similar: set up two pieces and, and then use one of ~300 5 style cases.


Is there an algsheet to refer to for Ayam method?


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## Thom S. (Sep 5, 2022)

Skewbed said:


> Ayam is when you set up two pieces at a time to a single 3 style case.
> What I proposed is similar: set up two pieces and, and then use one of ~300 5 style cases.





abunickabhi said:


> Is there an algsheet to refer to for Ayam method?


Do I misunderstand or are you asking for an Algsheet with One Alg?
A Tutorial might be better suited.


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## abunickabhi (Sep 5, 2022)

Thom S. said:


> Do I misunderstand or are you asking for an Algsheet with One Alg?
> A Tutorial might be better suited.


Oh I assumed the list of setup moves would be written somewhere.

Is there a tutorial on ayam method?


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## Thom S. (Sep 5, 2022)

I can find This thread that seems to be a tutorial and somewhere there is a video on Youtube acting as a tutorial.
The Post says 189 possible setup moves, almost all of them 4 moves or less with 5 moves being the max(which would put it at half as much setup as OP and Half as much Swapping Algs as OP).


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## Skewbed (Sep 6, 2022)

abunickabhi said:


> Is there an algsheet to refer to for Ayam method?


It is from https://www.speedsolving.com/thread...ntermediate-corner-bld-method-to-learn.70553/


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## abunickabhi (Nov 8, 2022)

I plan to make monthly short updates in order to stay on track with incremental progress.


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## abunickabhi (Nov 30, 2022)

A bunch of number stating my current update with learning and implementing UF5:

43453 edge algs I have gone through. I am not counting older algs or worse algs which I have discarded in this count.
32136 letter quads with a single object/image. So it is easier to memorize it compared to two letter pairs.
Around 11% of the algs cannot be decomposed into commutator notation, I plan to replace them with decomposable algs soon.
The number of 5-movers I know is 99, which is 1 short of 100. I hope I find that remaining case soon.
I am busy with my day job of being a rocket scientist since last 3 years, so it is tough to continue cubing and 5-style ofc.

Yo!


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## abunickabhi (Dec 20, 2022)

Fletcher Berry doing 5-style officially. Super cool!





His triple weak swap tutorial:


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## abunickabhi (Dec 29, 2022)

Nice IRL UF5 alg execution from Fletcher.


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