# corener permutation and edges orientation/allowed moves



## deadalnix (Apr 2, 2009)

We that we cannot permute coreners using only RU. We need to add another face like D, L or F usualy.

Diagonal permutation need 4 extra face turns, and and to adjecent corener needs 2. If you don't change edges orientation.

If you change edges orientation, you can permut corners diagonaly using only 2 extra moves (FRUR'U'F' for exemple).

These knowleges are quite practical for me, but I'm looking for a deeper understanding of the mecanisms involved. If you have any idea, please share


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 2, 2009)

F (R U R' U')*3 F'


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## deadalnix (Apr 2, 2009)

Ok, there is one thing wrong in my forst post 

But i was expecting more explainations


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 2, 2009)

There's nothing strange anymore now, is there? So why do you want more explanations?


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## deadalnix (Apr 2, 2009)

WGy can't you (neither me) permute two corners using RU moives ?

That's seems trivial for you ?


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 2, 2009)

In your first post you said that it was clear to you.

Your question was: Why do you need to do 4 other turns to permute 2 corners diagonally?

I gave proof you don't have to...


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## Johannes91 (Apr 2, 2009)

Jaap's site is down at the moment, Google has a cache here but without pictures.


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## deadalnix (Apr 2, 2009)

Jaap page looks great 

Trying-to-speedcube > I know what you mean. I wasn't clear enought in my first post.


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## pjk (Apr 3, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> Jaap's site is down at the moment, Google has a cache here but without pictures.


His site is in the process of being moved to a domain and new server, and he is also working on some major updates.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 3, 2009)

deadalnix said:


> Jaap page looks great
> 
> Trying-to-speedcube > I know what you mean. I wasn't clear enought in my first post.



I'm sorry if I sounded rude or anything... The last thing I want on this forum is a fight 

But on-topic... I really don't know... :O


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## AvGalen (Apr 3, 2009)

All edge PLL's can be done with only RU
For corner PLL's you need 1 extra face-move like L+L' or F+F'
For orienting edges you need FUR (might be disguised as MU)

If you learn a orient-first, permute layer method (for blindfolded for example) it should become obvious why this is true


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