# Cubiversity.com



## jonschneck (Nov 18, 2014)

Hey guys! My name is Jon Schneck - guitarist for the band Relient K. I just launched a new kickstarter for a new project that helps memorizing algorithms easy for beginning cubers. If you guys could check it out and give me some feedback, I would appreciate it. Also, helping spread the word would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192043607/cubiversity-the-best-rubiks-cube-instructional-des


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## SpicyOranges (Nov 18, 2014)

Just curious, how fast are you at solving? This seems like an interesting idea, but I think there are plenty of resources out there that are just as good.


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## Stefan (Nov 18, 2014)

Looks gimmicky but also interesting and indeed very professional.

One thing I really disliked is the video's statement/message that _"knowledge requires instruction"_. You can gain knowledge without instruction, in particular you can solve the cube without instructions. And I hate it when people act like that's impossible and force-feed others a solution instead of encouraging them to try it by themselves.

Also, I don't like the dissing of the good tutorials out there.


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## jonschneck (Nov 18, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback -- I meant no disrespect. I am just trying to create a space with a certain look and feel. Also, that opening montage is just for humor. Thanks again.

Hey there, I solve in the 30s, but this isn't a speed cubing site, its just for getting people into the sport. Thank you.


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## penguinz7 (Nov 18, 2014)

This actually looks pretty awesome, I would totally back this if I had money.


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## kylan (Nov 18, 2014)

Would you maybe make this available for other methods? such as roux or zz?


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## jonschneck (Nov 18, 2014)

thank you!



kylan said:


> Would you maybe make this available for other methods? such as roux or zz?



Perhaps!


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## waffle=ijm (Nov 18, 2014)

backed. good luck with the rest of the funding period.


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 18, 2014)

If there are going to be videos, I'd be interested to watch them. But as someone said, it seems gimmicky and somewhat cheesy. I'm not sure who's going to take this too seriously. I mean, cubers are already nerdy social outcasts. They don't need an acceptance letter and student ID card to Cubiversity to prove that. Half joking here.


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## obelisk477 (Nov 18, 2014)

Likes: It will help more people get into cubing, and help keep the constant growth we've seen of the 'sport' over the past several years.

Dislikes: I'm not sure where to begin. This just seems like, to me, another person who discovered they can solve the cube, and then all of a sudden wants to make tutorials and come up with new methods and teach everyone how to solve the cube while they know almost nothing other than the beginner's method and still aren't even sub-20. We see them here all the time on Speedsolving.com (which, by the way, is already the best place on the internet to learn to solve the cube and gather information. It may not be as gimmicky, but the best people in the world are here). People create accounts, ask if anyone has ever thought of this one thing before that they just came up with in their parents basement in 6 minutes, and then get offended when others tell them they've just re-invented an inefficient Petrus method. Personally, and maybe its just me, a project like this wouldn't get my respect (or monetary backing) without some well-known figureheads involved who clearly know their stuff and are really good speedsolvers. Rant over.

TLDR: There are enough tutorials out there by people who are better and who have been doing it longer.


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## BillyRain (Nov 18, 2014)

Great now that sune song is stuck in my head...


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## Randomno (Nov 19, 2014)

obelisk477 said:


> Likes: It will help more people get into cubing, and help keep the constant growth we've seen of the 'sport' over the past several years.
> 
> Dislikes: I'm not sure where to begin. This just seems like, to me, another person who discovered they can solve the cube, and then all of a sudden wants to make tutorials and come up with new methods and teach everyone how to solve the cube while they know almost nothing other than the beginner's method and still aren't even sub-20. We see them here all the time on Speedsolving.com (which, by the way, is already the best place on the internet to learn to solve the cube and gather information. It may not be as gimmicky, but the best people in the world are here). People create accounts, ask if anyone has ever thought of this one thing before that they just came up with in their parents basement in 6 minutes, and then get offended when others tell them they've just re-invented an inefficient Petrus method. Personally, and maybe its just me, a project like this wouldn't get my respect (or monetary backing) without some well-known figureheads involved who clearly know their stuff and are really good speedsolvers. Rant over.
> 
> TLDR: There are enough tutorials out there by people who are better and who have been doing it longer.



I think being more of a beginner can help to make a tutorial. It's easier to remember what you had trouble with when learning and you can cover that more thoroughly if you make a tutorial.


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## obelisk477 (Nov 19, 2014)

Randomno said:


> I think being more of a beginner can help to make a tutorial. It's easier to remember what you had trouble with when learning and you can cover that more thoroughly if you make a tutorial.



I agree with this, but my problem is mainly with making grandiose claims, which this does. "The best place on the internet for all your cubing needs" or whatever is ridiculous. Just make the claim of what you're going to do (a beginner tutorial with song and video) and thats it.


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## Kit Clement (Nov 19, 2014)

obelisk477 said:


> I agree with this, but my problem is mainly with making grandiose claims, which this does. "The best place on the internet for all your cubing needs" or whatever is ridiculous. Just make the claim of what you're going to do (a beginner tutorial with song and video) and thats it.



This pretty much summarizes my thoughts on this. Great idea -- but I'm irked by a lot of the claims made in the video.


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## Stewy (Nov 19, 2014)

as much as you'd like to be "the best rubik's cube instructional destination" and whatnot, there will always be more people going on to google and youtube and typing in "how to solve a rubiks cube". 

also, will all the songs etc be free or do they need to be purchased when the website is launched? i can't imagine someone buying a $20 rubik's brand cube and then spending another $10 learning to solve it, when there's hundreds of free (and probably more helpful) sources.


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## Chree (Nov 19, 2014)

I agree with the contentions above. The program seems to forget that learning an alg has less to do with learning the notation, but it's more important to lock it into muscle memory. Having a learn a song first adds an extra, needless step. And having to pay to sit through it? No.


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## ~Adam~ (Nov 19, 2014)

Randomno said:


> I think being more of a beginner can help to make a tutorial.



I think the more people you teach makes you better at it because you see where people have trouble and find improvements in your method of teaching. I did start teaching people the week that I learnt though so that may have helped.


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## Ranzha (Nov 20, 2014)

I like what you guys are trying to do.
I don't know if it'll work as well as you might like.

How can you be sure your methods of teaching are more intuitive than what's currently out there?

Is the goal of this project only to instruct people how to solve? I'm sure there are a lot of people who can solve the cube who could benefit from supplementary instruction on things like finger tricks, optimisation, lookahead, other useful algorithms, etc. Instruction on topics like those allows students to really grasp the material and get more personally involved. This can lead to more people not only signing up, but sticking around for more.


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## Anthony (Nov 21, 2014)

Jon has added me to the Cubiversity team as a content advisor, so I'll leave my impression and address some of the concerns expressed in this thread.

I believe that Cubiversity's musical approach has huge potential for beginner instruction. As most of us have experienced, many people are turned off by the notion of memorizing algorithms. Just the word "algorithm" can be daunting. Musical hooks - much less intimidating! I was first intrigued by the idea of using music as a method of memorizing algorithms by DeStorm's "How to Solve a Rubik's Cube" rap video years ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYv_oB_PXSg). Unfortunately, DeStorm's video does not lend itself to proper teaching despite going through the steps. I've always thought it could work if done right - Jon is the man for the job. 




SpicyOranges said:


> Just curious, how fast are you at solving?



Jon's been cubing for around 5 years and averages in the 30s. More importantly, he's demonstrated his passion for cubing through founding the Nashville based cubing club, Cube it Forward. The mission of the Cube it Forward initiative is to teach individuals how to solve the cube, trusting that in return they will further the initiative by teaching someone themselves. Jon has personally taught dozens of people how to solve the cube.



SpicyOranges said:


> This seems like an interesting idea, but I think there are plenty of resources out there that are just as good.





Stefan said:


> Looks gimmicky but also interesting and indeed very professional.
> ...
> Also, I don't like the dissing of the good tutorials out there.





obelisk477 said:


> This just seems like, to me, another person who discovered they can solve the cube, and then all of a sudden wants to make tutorials and come up with new methods and teach everyone how to solve the cube while they know almost nothing other than the beginner's method and still aren't even sub-20... Personally, and maybe its just me, a project like this wouldn't get my respect (or monetary backing) without some well-known figureheads involved who clearly know their stuff and are really good speedsolvers. Rant over.
> 
> TLDR: There are enough tutorials out there by people who are better and who have been doing it longer.



There are certainly good tutorials out there - none quite like this, though. Will it be the best resource out there? That remains to be seen. I'm confident that Jon and I will ensure that the final product is excellent - both from a production and methodical standpoint.



BillyRain said:


> Great now that sune song is stuck in my head...





Chree said:


> I agree with the contentions above. The program seems to forget that learning an alg has less to do with learning the notation, but it's more important to lock it into muscle memory. Having a learn a song first adds an extra, needless step. And having to pay to sit through it? No.



Fast speedcubers have most of their algorithms embedded into their muscle memory. However, I've taught 40+ people how to solve the cube over the years and, based on my experience, preferred learning styles certainly vary greatly from person to person. Repeating the algorithm until it's in their muscle memory, memorizing the notation of each algorithm, understanding what pieces the moves are affecting, and fabricating stories to recall the moves are all ways of learning algs which I have seen work well for some people and fail spectacularly for others. This musical approach is just another way of translating algorithms into something memorable. I really believe this approach will _click_ for a lot of people. And seeing as most people who learn to solve the cube are not interested in becoming 'speedcubers', I think this mental hook will be a great way of recalling algorithms down the road for those who don't practice enough to rely on muscle memory alone.


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## obelisk477 (Nov 21, 2014)

Anthony said:


> Jon has added me to the Cubiversity team as a content advisor, so I'll leave my impression and address some of the concerns expressed in this thread.



Well I personally am glad to hear that you are advising, and could see this going much further with some good professional input.


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## Chree (Nov 21, 2014)

obelisk477 said:


> Well I personally am glad to hear that you are advising, and could see this going much further with some good professional input.



Indeed. I see this as a good turn of events. Even though speedcubers aren't the target audience for this, it's good to see there will be some speedcuber perspective involved.




Anthony said:


> Jon has added me to the Cubiversity team as a content advisor, so I'll leave my impression and address some of the concerns expressed in this thread.
> 
> ...
> 
> Repeating the algorithm until it's in their muscle memory, memorizing the notation of each algorithm, understanding what pieces the moves are affecting, and fabricating stories to recall the moves are all ways of learning algs which I have seen work well for some people and fail spectacularly for others. This musical approach is just another way of translating algorithms into something memorable. I really believe this approach will _click_ for a lot of people.



That's a good point. With that in mind, the musical approach doesn't need to be the only option. That particular technique turned me off to the program and I'm getting the impression I'm not the only one. If they offer more options and market a variable, customizable approach to learning, they can appeal to a wider audience. And it looks like that's well within all your wheelhouses.


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## Stefan (Nov 21, 2014)

"Cubiversity" and "Speedcubing 101"... nice development!


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## jonschneck (Nov 21, 2014)

Chree said:


> Indeed. I see this as a good turn of events. Even though speedcubers aren't the target audience for this, it's good to see there will be some speedcuber perspective involved.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input! The musical approach is not the only approach. We are doing a full ebook and video series to help in learning to solve. The music is honestly, just for fun. It is not meant to be the end all or even a method to solve. I do remember when I was learning to solve, trying to digest 5, or 10 algorithms at once is tricky. Breaking them into song is just a way to help get a fresh perspective on them. The idea is to get them in your head, and then put them into practice.

Keep in mind, this is not a speed cubing site, its an intro to the cube and will hopefully get people interested in the sport. 

We're really stoked Anthony is going to be coming along on this journey. Thanks everyone for joining in the dialogue!


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## ElectricDoodie (Nov 21, 2014)

Lol, what are the odds. I was just talking to an old high school friend about Relient K being his favorite band back in the day, and this thread pops up.
Anyway, good luck with this.


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## Chree (Nov 21, 2014)

jonschneck said:


> Thanks for the input! The musical approach is not the only approach. We are doing a full ebook and video series to help in learning to solve. The music is honestly, just for fun. It is not meant to be the end all or even a method to solve.



Aah... well, seems awesome then.


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