# Cross memo tehniques?



## Zarxrax (Feb 19, 2012)

I've been cubing for several years now, and the cross is still one of the most difficult points for me. In particular, I have a lot of trouble remembering all of the moves that I need to make in order to fully solve it. So usually I just end up memorizing about 2 pieces and then solving the rest as I see it.

Everyone says to just keep practicing it, but as I said, I have been cubing for years now, and I'm just not getting any better at my crosses.

For blind solving, everyone has special memorization methods that they use, so I was thinking, why not use something like that for the cross as well?
Does anyone actually use any sort of special technique for remembering the cross, or does everyone just do visual memo?

What might be an effective method for cross memorization?


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## JasonLee (Feb 19, 2012)

I think you need to reduce the moves, all the cross can be done in eight moves, special technique is not necessary.How many moves do you need to do the cross?


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## pi.cubed (Feb 19, 2012)

I think a fair few people (including myself) just look at the cross pieces and think about where they need to go. I just think 'So I can bring this piece down here and move this one over here so it can be flipped'. It's difficult to explain, but I find that if you think about how you're going to do it you just remember it. 
What do you currently do? When you say "remembering all the moves" do you mean you try to remember R' D2 F B' U2 L or something like that? I have tried that previously and I couldn't get it work. I don't think many people do that.
But yeah, I personally just think about where they need to go. I just did some solves trying to work out what I do but it's just too hard to explain properly.

This may not help but oh well.


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## Zarxrax (Feb 19, 2012)

Well, I also usually think of it as looking at "where they need to go". Its just that I usually have trouble visualizing it through the entire cross solve. And even if I am able to remember the whole thing, my execution tends to be rather slow because I'm having to think about it as I execute it.
My crosses are usually not optimal, but I am pretty good at making them 8 moves or less.


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## JianhanC (Feb 19, 2012)

Seriously, I used to have cross problems too, but it just improved the more I solved. Now I can make the cross without much thought. Just practise and reduce move count.


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## JasonLee (Feb 19, 2012)

I usually remember all moves, but don't use letters. I do a little "simulation" in my head, like which finger move which layer. My way is to remember how my fingers move, then do the cross.


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## 5BLD (Feb 19, 2012)

The trick is not to remember the move sequence, but remember how the cross comes together.


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## MWilson (Feb 19, 2012)

Zarxrax said:


> So usually I just end up memorizing about 2 pieces and then solving the rest as I see it.


 
This sounds like your problem, at least it was for me back then. You won't get better at solving all four pieces fluidly if you don't practice just that. Don't worry about doing well, just do it.

Force yourself to do 20 crosses a day where you take _as long as you need to_ figuring it out without making _any_ "preview" turns. Have it all in your head, figure out your finger tricks in your head so you can "feel" it before you do it, and then do it in one motion. Make that motion slow enough that you can go smoothly. Also, _do not look at the cube_ when you do it. Don't bother timing it or even finishing the solve. You can practice cross->F2L much more quickly and effectively once your cross is practically subconscious.

It's hard and honestly I remember it _feeling_ bad, like my brain couldn't handle it. Just remind yourself that it's that feeling that means you'll improve if you keep at it. Also, don't expect drastic improvement in a short time. Force yourself to do it that 20 (or whatever) crosses a day for at least two weeks before worrying about it.


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## speedpicker (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks for a really great post there Dominate, that certainly clarified matters for me. However it does beg the question, what about learning to reduce move count? I have found that I can solve the cross BLD 9 times out of 10, but sometimes my move number is way too high. I have spent some time giong through reconstructions of top speedsolves and find a lot of use of wide turns, Ms and similar techniques that make me go "I'd have never thought of that". 

I find I rely on a number of mini algs, basically those on cubefreak ( http://cubefreak.net/speed/cfop/cross.php ) and R u R' u' and R' u R' u' when necessary. 

So now we have a handle on how to train ourselves to plan the cross thoroughly, how can I then do this more efficiently?


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## Zarxrax (Feb 19, 2012)

Yes, while it is usually not too hard to get a cross under 8 moves, sometimes there is just a really difficult cross, like: D L D L2 U2 L U D F2 L B2 F L D' L2 U2 F2 U F' B2 R' L' F L R
(scramble with white on bottom, green on front, solve for white cross)
Scrambles like this are killers. It took me 11 moves to solve, and there was NO WAY that I could plan out the whole thing before starting.
When trying to solve this in a low number of moves, what kind of things would I be looking for? What types of strategy do you approach with?


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## PandaCuber (Feb 19, 2012)

Zarxrax said:


> Yes, while it is usually not too hard to get a cross under 8 moves, sometimes there is just a really difficult cross, like: D L D L2 U2 L U D F2 L B2 F L D' L2 U2 F2 U F' B2 R' L' F L R
> (scramble with white on bottom, green on front, solve for white cross)
> Scrambles like this are killers. It took me 11 moves to solve, and there was NO WAY that I could plan out the whole thing before starting.
> When trying to solve this in a low number of moves, what kind of things would I be looking for? What types of strategy do you approach with?


 
Using that scramble , White top, Green front
x2 L' F2 R2 B2 D2 . 5 Moves. 

What I do is look for pieces that can be solved with an F2 type movement <B2, R2, L2,>. Those moves are easy to see and remember. Then the 'harder' edges need to be 'flipped' because they cannot be solved with an F2 movement. 
For example: Scramble: F' R U R' F 
The piece in FR needs to be 'flipped' because you cannot solve the cross with F. Something you can do is <u F' u'>
Another trick is by solving the cross, but not having it solved in the correct place. As an example, look at the first solve I provided. As you can see in the end, I did an <D2>. To put the cross where it needs to go.

I think that you have to first find the most efficient cross in order to make memo easier. IMO.
I hope you understood me. If not. Heree.


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## Zarxrax (Feb 19, 2012)

You scrambled it upside down from the way I did, and it made it the easiest cross ever 
Try it with white on bottom.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 19, 2012)

Zarxrax said:


> You scrambled it upside down from the way I did, and it made it the easiest cross ever
> Try it with white on bottom.


 
B2 D F R L B D'


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## Zarxrax (Feb 19, 2012)

Very nice. What is the thought process for something like that? I never could have seen such a solution.
I never would have considered to start with the B2, because after doing that move, the cube doesn't seem any closer to being solved, so right away, I would have started down a different path.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 19, 2012)

Zarxrax said:


> Very nice. What is the thought process for something like that? I never could have seen such a solution.
> I never would have considered to start with the B2, because after doing that move, the cube doesn't seem any closer to being solved, so right away, I would have started down a different path.



B2 was for green. For easier insert.
D. Because if you inserted green like that, the rest would be helll.
Then you insert the rest, but being careful not to insert the wrong edges. 
Thats why F was first, instead of R for the green.
Then D' to place cross in correct position.

Im sure the pros have a better thought proccess or more efficient cross or maybe even xcross


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## irontwig (Feb 19, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> B2 D F R L B D'


 
y' L F R L B L' D' L y U2 R2


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## MWilson (Feb 19, 2012)

irontwig said:


> y' L F R L B L' D' L y U2 R2


 
B R2 L B' L' D B2 R would be better for finger tricks I think.


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## irontwig (Feb 19, 2012)

Maybe, nice and efficient nevertheless.


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## A Leman (Feb 19, 2012)

Pandacuber gave the best white cross but, not neccesarily the best cross. If you solve cubes color neutrally, you almost always find better crosses to use. After scrambling the cube, I liked the orange and blue crosses(the orange one is quick and simple, but with blue, I planned a double extended cross). Furthermore they seem more fingertrick friendly. I am defidently not a pro at crosses, but this is what I got.
orange: pre-orient y2 x' then L U L E X' D
blue: pre-oient x y then (u L u') R2 U' (R U2 R') u2 F2 
If you use your full inspection time you can plan out the blue extended cross and protect a pair. Then while you solve it, you can track the blue-orange yellow corner which would make the f2l (U R' U' R2 U2 R' U R U R') and then you're almost done with the solve.


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## oll+phase+sync (Feb 20, 2012)

Zarxrax said:


> really difficult cross, like: D L D L2 U2 L U D F2 L B2 F L D' L2 U2 F2 U F' B2 R' L' F L R
> (scramble with white on bottom, green on front, solve for white cross)



F D2 L' U R' F u R'
My "cross pcrocess" is not so elaborated (efficent), but in general
- Solve some edges 
- look if there is a super easily solved next edge
- look if I can insert some moves to get a super easily solved next edge
- be unlucky - think harder ... 
- repeat


a) Look for an easy two-edges-solve FD2L' 
b) check if a setup move or inserted move could have positioned other edges even better - but I didnt see any herer.
c) UR'F solve third edge and gets the last edge in a good position ( out of the D-Layer)
d) Finish it uR' (normaly im too lazy to remeber this moves)

All solutions wich have "inserted setup moves" are quit hard to understand if you just follow the sequence from start to end.


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## Rubiksfreak (Feb 27, 2012)

I agree i use full fridrich method and the cross is the most difficult. Its not difficult to make at all by NO means, the difficult thing about it is that some of the crosses can be hard to make when your cube is up side down(cross on the bottom so you can jump into F2l quickly) and i think its the one thing that slows my times down the most is jumping into F2l after the cross.


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