# Dayan, Sinking in quicksand and can't get out



## skips27913 (Oct 2, 2013)

Dayan, we all know the name but probably a year down the line, Dayan will suffer the same fate as Alpha. They will become the old guys or the "classics". They wont be anyones main speedcube by any means, it will be the set of cubes in the back getting dusty and watching all the other new cubes giving people faster averages and PB's. This will happen because of the simple act of influence. People like Feliks Zemdegs and CrazyBadCuber have persuaded such a large number of the cubing community to ditch Dayan and switch to these new and definitely improved cubes. One example being the simple question said and answered by CrazyBadCuber saying "Is it better than a Zhanchi?" Yes". From that moment on the Zhanchi being the penultimate cube of speedcubing had just been threatened by Fangshi and Moyu. Then Mats Valk and Feliks Zemdegs switch to the Weilong. Dayan was trapped, after the squeamish horrors unveiled by the PanShi, they had nothing to fall back on. They relied solely on the Zhanchi and the GuHong to keep their boat afloat. The mistake Dayan made that screwed their company over was the act of over reliance on the ZhanChi, they couldn't move on. They incorporated the exact same design on their 2x2 and you can still see this act of over reliance by the discontinuing of the Panshi, they realised their mistake and are just taking shelter in their tent of Zhanchi. If you go on thecubicle.us, you will see in the coming soon section, NEW 2X2 FROM MOYU NEW 4X4 FROM MOYU AND A NEW 3X3 FROM MOYU and nothing from Dayan in the past 8 months. Lets face it, Dayan is up to their shoulders in quicksand and need a miracle to break out. But one thing Dayan still has is the WR single and I guess that puts a fraction of a smile on their face.


----------



## PranavCubes (Oct 2, 2013)

Even many new cubes tend to come out and you feel like the pros switched to them(Weilong) it doesnt mean that Zhanchi is bad. It can be as good as any other cube. I am into cubing from November 2012 and got my Zhanchi in December 2012. It is still my main. I tried out a Shuang Ren v1 from a friend and it was not as good as my Zhanchi. My OH main is a Guhong which I got in May. I did not have a single issue till date. Many of the former 3x3 WRs was made with a Dayan cube. 

EDIT- Some Cubers now also Dayan Cubes as their mains even after the advent of new cubes.


----------



## youngcuber1 (Oct 2, 2013)

PranavCubes said:


> Even many new cubes tend to come out and you feel like the pros switched to them(Weilong) it doesnt mean that Zhanchi is bad. It can be as good as any other cube. I am into cubing from November 2012 and got my Zhanchi in December 2012. It is still my main. I tried out a Shuang Ren v1 from a friend and it was not as good as my Zhanchi. My OH main is a Guhong which I got in May. I did not have a single issue till date. Many of the former 3x3 WRs was made with a Dayan cube.



Keyword: "former"
But I do agree with most of what you said.


----------



## hoolahoop (Oct 2, 2013)

this is the reason why i want my friend to buy a zhanchi and me to buy a shuangren to compare. he asked why, i answered "to save money"


----------



## Dene (Oct 2, 2013)

What was the point of all this? Who cares if Dayan goes bust? That's the corporate world. It can suck but you have to roll with the punches.


----------



## pipkiksass (Oct 2, 2013)

Dene said:


> What was the point of all this? Who cares if Dayan goes bust? That's the corporate world. It can suck but you have to roll with the punches.



I guess OP is just highlighting the fact that the unrivalled market leader of the past few years have suddenly found themselves a rival. I agree though, it's more a statement of fact than a discussion.

In economic theory there are what is known as first movers and second movers. First movers establish a new market, or revolutionise an existing market. This is what Dayan did. Second movers exploit the lessons learned by the first mover and bring a competing product to the established market. If the first mover (Dayan) doesn't make an effort to keep up, their market share falls.

Perhaps they didn't expect WRs to be set with the Weilong - remember OP that, until last week, both the single and average WR were set with a Zhanchi. We're not talking about them failing to respond to something that happened months ago!

I don't think Dayan are 'stuck', they're just resting on their laurels and failing to respond to the market shift and the emergence of genuine competitors. I'd expect them to already be working on a new 3x3, but if they're not then they're effectively committing business suicide. If they don't want to be pushed out of the 3x3 market completely, they really should release a new design in the next few months, and I fully expect them to do just that.


----------



## windhero (Oct 2, 2013)

MoYu cubes are as good as dayan cubes for the general public, but they are much cheaper. Dayan has some gems like the Guhongs and the Lingyun for example. WeiLong competes with the Zhanchi but not with the smooth and silky guhong.
Until MoYu comes up with a controllable and smooth cube such as the Guhong, the Dayan era is not over.

But in the end; Who cares? Dayan fanboyism is just as stupid as any other kind, like V-cube fanboyism. Sticking to a lesser product because of loyalty to a company in China that has absolutely no connections to yourself; Why would anyone do that?


----------



## Ninja Storm (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm sure many people will still use Dayan cubes simply because they offer a different feel. Yes, I use a Fangshi for OH, but I've been using a Guhong/Zhanchi for regular 3x3 speedsolving since I started, and I don't see myself switching to the Fangshi, Huanying, or Weilong any time soon.


----------



## YddEd (Oct 2, 2013)

Hey bro, I saw what you said about me on CBC's facebook page. Cool. (Sam Paul aka Thread creator)

OT: Who cares.


----------



## youngcuber1 (Oct 2, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Hey bro, I saw what you said about me on CBC's facebook page. Cool.



Who are you talking too?


----------



## tx789 (Oct 2, 2013)

I still use my zhanchi. I haven't brought any cubes for about a year now. Since my parents enforced a cubing break because I have NCEA lvl 1 this year (now all that left is the final exams(you have mocks at the end of term 3). ON topic. Some people won't switch. The new best cube comes out every 2 months or so. Some people don't want to buy a new cube that often and will stick with their old ones. I still use v-cubes for 5-7 since I haven't got shengshou's yet. At least the 5x5-7x7. I want them those.


EDIT: Back in 2009(and earlier) what did everyone have as thier mains? (I wasn't very active in the community part speedcubing back then) because from the youtube videos I saw it seemed someone main varied a lot. Whether it was type A or whatever. Now seems to be a point where people are a huge variety of mains rather than just a few.


----------



## TDM (Oct 2, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Perhaps they didn't expect WRs to be set with the Weilong - remember OP that, until last week, both the single and average WR were set with a Zhanchi.


Faz's 7.53 average was with a Guhong v2, not a Zhanchi.


----------



## Kirjava (Oct 2, 2013)

You're acting like this is a bad thing


----------



## googlebleh (Oct 2, 2013)

I love how dramatic this thread sounds.

Then I remembered that it's not that big of a deal yet. Dayan still has a pretty good megaminx and 2x2x2 (for now), so if they get themselves working on a cool 5x5x5 they could be back in biz. Companies like WitEden still came back after awhile (their first 3 3x3x3s weren't amazing, yet later their v4 and v5 were moderately popular and their 2x2x2 rocked), so I think Dayan's not dead yet.


----------



## TimMc (Oct 2, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> I guess OP is just highlighting the fact that the unrivalled market leader of the past few years have suddenly found themselves a rival.



How well are Yongjun rivaling Dayan?

Are either synonymous with KO?

Do both produce 3x3's with improved designs regularly?

Have both donated thousands of puzzles to competitors?

Tim.


----------



## Ollie (Oct 2, 2013)

<3 Dayan


----------



## Lchu613 (Oct 2, 2013)

V-cubes are better. You argument is invalid

/flail


----------



## KongShou (Oct 2, 2013)

i dont see how the most popular speedcube company is sinking in quicksand

dude moyu has the weilong and thats it, some dont even like the weilong
just cos mats and feliks use the weilong dont mean dayan is going to crap


----------



## Noahaha (Oct 2, 2013)

Two cubers switch and suddenly it's the end of Dayan. Lol. Dayan's cubes are still really good. Lots of people still use them and keep buying them. Just because Dayan made ONE bad cube after 5 really good ones doesn't mean they won't make more good ones.


----------



## kcl (Oct 2, 2013)

Noahaha said:


> Two cubers switch and suddenly it's the end of Dayan. Lol. Dayan's cubes are still really good. Lots of people still use them and keep buying them. Just because Dayan made ONE bad cube after 5 really good ones doesn't mean they won't make more good ones.



This ^^ I don't get it. Zhanchis are really good. Guhongs are really good. Weilongs are really good. Why can't we just go without bashing other cubes?


----------



## ~Adam~ (Oct 2, 2013)

fazrulz said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm faster on my weilong than my zhanchi. Although, I think my zhanchi (the one I used at worlds) is dying, so I'd probably be about the same speed on a good zhanchi. My weilong isn't particularly good, at least compared to Mats'.



Also almost nobody here cares what CBC thinks about cubes.


----------



## ZamHalen (Oct 2, 2013)

I thought you were going to show me a video of a dayan literally sinking in quicksand.... I can't explain how disappointed I am right now...


----------



## KongShou (Oct 2, 2013)

ZamHalen said:


> I thought you were going to show me a video of a dayan literally sinking in quicksand.... I can't explain how disappointed I am right now...



dayan mean a bird so it would be quite funny


----------



## Lchu613 (Oct 2, 2013)

Poor bird...


----------



## Owen (Oct 2, 2013)

Guhong is still best cube.


----------



## TheNextFeliks (Oct 2, 2013)

ZamHalen said:


> I thought you were going to show me a video of a dayan literally sinking in quicksand.... I can't explain how disappointed I am right now...



Lol. Me too.


----------



## skips27913 (Oct 3, 2013)

Exactly but in my opinion, the PanShi was buisness suicide. They knew that the psychological advantage to the cube was that it would be able to cut 45 degrees but the PanShi failed to do that, I'm not saying that anyone needs that cutting but you have to agree that it is an advantage. The ZhanChi came out in 2011, and the PanShi came out in 2013, that gave them a 2 year span as #1 but they dug their own grave with the realisation of their new cube not surpassing its previous design. 2 year is a long time to "perfect or at the very least improve. You also have to see the laughable irony in the cube, "PanShi" refers to solid as a rock and yet my corner stalk broke off in less than a week. I'm not saying that Dayan is bad and should be erased from the market, I'm saying that if they don't keep up, they're gonna be kept in the dust.



TheNextFeliks said:


> Lol. Me too.


oh my goodness, what a knee slapper :0

u do realise they have come out with a 4x4 that has currently just beaten shengshou by a landslide @KongShou


----------



## YddEd (Oct 3, 2013)

skips27913 said:


> u do realise they have come out with a 4x4 that has currently just beaten shengshou by a landslide @KongShou


You do realise that they're only on preorder right?

Edit: Nice triple posting, Sam.


----------



## KongShou (Oct 3, 2013)

skips27913 said:


> u do realise they have come out with a 4x4 that has currently just beaten shengshou by a landslide @KongShou



Has anyon reverse tried this so amazing 4x4?

How has is beaten shengshou


----------



## tx789 (Oct 3, 2013)

skips27913 said:


> that gave them a 2 year span as #1 but they dug their own grave with the realisation of their new cube not surpassing its previous design. 2 year is a long time to "perfect or at the very least improve.



DaShing Bao (is that how you spell it?) the designer of the zhanchi and guhong has said he thought the zhanchi was as as good as any cube he could design basically in short he was happy to leave it at the zhanchi but people forced him into doing it. He didn't want to make the panshi. He just caved in the the pressure people gave him.


----------



## Genesis (Oct 3, 2013)

tx789 said:


> DaShing Bao (is that how you spell it?) the designer of the zhanchi and guhong has said he thought the zhanchi was as as good as any cube he could design basically in short he was happy to leave it at the zhanchi but people forced him into doing it. He didn't want to make the panshi. He just caved in the the pressure people gave him.



*DaQing Bao


----------



## Drake (Oct 3, 2013)

Personally I don't think Dayan will "sink", for one reason. They do other puzzles then just speedcubes.


----------



## Michael Womack (Oct 3, 2013)

I Don't see Dayan becoming a forgotten Speedcube company anytime soon. The Dayan 2x2 and Dayan Megaminx are still one of the best Speedcubes out there.


----------



## KongShou (Oct 3, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> I Don't see Dayan becoming a forgotten Speedcube company anytime soon. The Dayan 2x2 and Dayan Megaminx are still one of the best Speedcubes out there.



you missed out all the other cubes they made that are also the best in the market


----------



## ILMZS20 (Oct 3, 2013)

who knows if dayan is dying. they havent made a good 3x3 in a long time, but that doesnt mean that they cant do better than the zhanchi. look how good it was and still is, they can also learn from the new cubes that came out. not knocking off of course.


----------



## rj (Oct 3, 2013)

ILMZS20 said:


> who knows if dayan is dying. they havent made a good 3x3 in a long time, but that doesnt mean that they cant do better than the zhanchi. look how good it was and still is, they can also learn from the new cubes that came out. not knocking off of course.



Their mega and 2x2 and Guhong are all still amazing cubes. Dayan is treading water (or quicksand) very well.


----------



## kcl (Oct 3, 2013)

rj said:


> Their mega and 2x2 and Guhong are all still amazing cubes. Dayan is treading water (or quicksand) very well.



Don't forget the zhanchi..
Srsly tho
Dayan isn't sinking. So new stuff comes out, Dayan is amazing regardless.


----------



## rj (Oct 3, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Don't forget the zhanchi..
> Srsly tho
> Dayan isn't sinking. So new stuff comes out, Dayan is amazing regardless.



Oh, and the mini zhanchis.


----------



## Lchu613 (Oct 3, 2013)

The megaminx isn't a speed*cube.* But other than that yes I don't think Dayan is near quicksand.

And that 4x4 that has "beaten ShengShou" doesn't even have a review yet afaik. Don't spout BS unless it's backable BS.

(BS totally means Boy Scouts)


----------



## kcl (Oct 4, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> The megaminx isn't a speed*cube.* But other than that yes I don't think Dayan is near quicksand.
> 
> And that 4x4 that has "beaten ShengShou" doesn't even have a review yet afaik. Don't spout BS unless it's backable BS.
> 
> (BS totally means Boy Scouts)



Speed dodecahedron shall now be the official term. Sorry for any confusion


----------



## Michael Womack (Oct 4, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Speed dodecahedron shall now be the official term. Sorry for any confusion



Or speedminx.


----------



## skips27913 (Oct 4, 2013)

Wow, so YddEd over here thinks that a cubes performance is based on if it is on preorder or not. Nice <3


----------



## YddEd (Oct 4, 2013)

skips27913 said:


> Wow, so YddEd over here thinks that a cubes performance is based on if it is on preorder or not. Nice <3


Yeah, because EVERYONE has tried the cube already.


----------



## rock1313 (Oct 4, 2013)

lol, I literary thought he put a Dayan cube in quicksand and can't get it out. XD


----------



## Drake (Oct 4, 2013)

I doubt they care, they did what they had to do with the zhanchi. It's true that maybe betgter speedcubes are comming out, but even if they are better, the zhanchi was one of the best, or the best for a long time. And like I said, dayan isn't just a brand that makes speedcubes. They make other puzzles. Just during the summer they released the dayan gem V and VII, so why would they be sinking? The speedcubing market isn't the only market out there (puzzle wise).

And if you want my opinion those who are sinking down the drain, are the speedcubers. Those speedcubers who buy evry singly new cube, just to get faster, and waste over 1000$ on 3x3x3's. Yes a good cube is helpfull to get good times. But if you chose zhanchi, or fangshi, or whatever other speedcubes, it won't make a big diffrence.


----------



## peterbone (Oct 4, 2013)

Am I right in saying that Dayan are still the only company selling stickerless cubes (not including tiled)? If so there will always be a market from people like me who want a fast stickerless cube and are not interested in competitions.


----------



## Michael Womack (Oct 4, 2013)

peterbone said:


> Am I right in saying that Dayan are still the only company selling stickerless cubes (not including tiled)? If so there will always be a market from people like me who want a fast stickerless cube and are not interested in competitions.



Witeden, Dianshing and Dayan kos are making stickerless 3x3s


----------



## rj (Oct 4, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> Witeden, Dianshing and Dayan kos are making stickerless 3x3s



Isn't MF8 too? And Qiyi. Oh, and CX-3.


----------



## YddEd (Oct 4, 2013)

rj said:


> Isn't MF8 too? And Qiyi. Oh, and *CX-3*.


Totally a company.


----------



## rj (Oct 4, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Totally a company.



Sorry, Maru.


----------



## Michael Womack (Oct 4, 2013)

rj said:


> Isn't MF8 too? And Qiyi. Oh, and CX-3.



I have not seen any Mf8 stickerless 3x3's unless you count the Ledgand v2 with tiles.


----------



## rj (Oct 4, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> I have not seen any Mf8 stickerless 3x3's unless you count the Ledgand v2 with tiles.



OK, I thought I saw one once.


----------



## Michael Womack (Oct 4, 2013)

rj said:


> OK, I thought I saw one once.



But Mf8 dose make Stickerless 4x4s and other Non-WCA puzzles that are stickerless.


----------



## EMI (Oct 4, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> I have not seen any Mf8 stickerless 3x3's unless you count the Ledgand v2 with tiles.



If you remove the stickers of the Version 1 you have a stickerless Mf8.


----------



## Michael Womack (Oct 4, 2013)

EMI said:


> If you remove the stickers of the Version 1 you have a stickerless Mf8.



But you would then have a Blank cube that is all white or all black and they would have no solution.


----------



## KongShou (Oct 4, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> But you would then have a Blank cube that is all white or all black and they would have no solution.



still a stickerless cube


----------



## Michael Womack (Oct 4, 2013)

KongShou said:


> still a stickerless cube



Not the type that rj is talking about.


----------



## TheZenith27 (Oct 4, 2013)

In my opinion, no new speedcube compares to any DaYan cube. DaYan is still the best brand and it will be for a long time.


----------



## rj (Oct 4, 2013)

TheZenith27 said:


> In my opinion, no new speedcube compares to any DaYan cube. DaYan is still the best brand and it will be for a long time.



Which new ones have you tried?


----------



## Lchu613 (Oct 4, 2013)

mf8 legend v2 is "stickerless" but only if you're referring to not having stickers. It has tiles. So it's stickerless to those who are looking for something that won't have stickers wearing down and for literal people.

And EMI, well put.


----------



## Kirjava (Oct 3, 2014)

I guess this kind of happened.


----------



## Michael Womack (Oct 3, 2014)

Kirjava said:


> I guess this kind of happened.



Why revive this thread when the last post on the thread wad made 1 year ago?


----------



## Ollie (Oct 3, 2014)

Yeah, you clangnut


----------



## ajayd (Oct 3, 2014)

Because the prophecy has come to fruition


----------



## Kirjava (Oct 3, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> Why revive this thread when the last post on the thread wad made 1 year ago?



Because the thread was a prediction on the future, and as far as the original poster is concerned we are in the future.

You obviously don't understand warranted bumping.


----------



## megaminxwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Kirjava said:


> Because the thread was a prediction on the future, and as far as the original poster is concerned we are in the future.
> 
> You obviously don't understand warranted bumping.



It's definitely the future, flying cars and everything.


----------



## Michael Womack (Oct 4, 2014)

anyway Dayan is not one of those forgotten cubing companies like Eastsheen and Alpha cause dayan still makes money off of the Dayan 2x2, Dayan Megaminx, Zhanchi and the other non-wca puzzles.


----------



## cubecraze1 (Oct 4, 2014)

megaminxwin said:


> It's definitely the future, flying cars and everything.



(Not sure if joking) but here's a quick definition of future: "the time or a period of time following the moment of speaking or writing; time regarded as still to come."


----------

