# HK Now Store Official Thread - New Arrivals in May 2011



## calvinfan (May 28, 2011)

*HK Now Store Official Thread - New Arrivals in June 2011*







Hello, everyone ~
Sorry for not coming here for a long time, I have been very busy in my wholesales business. From now on, I shall frequently update the new arrivals here.
Below are new arrivals recently.

If you have any inquiries, feel free to contact me at [email protected] .


----------



## calvinfan (May 30, 2011)

Thanks for the supports of all of you.
We have almost sold out the blue body and having a small amount of pink one left in stock. If you wanna get one of these limited editiion, you can get the pink one now.
Well, I have just got the white body sample on hand. And, we are accepting the pre-orders now. ^^

*Dayan Gem III prototype*


----------



## calvinfan (May 30, 2011)

Photo below are the clear body prototype, just for reference.
We are accepting the pre-orders now, the orders shall be ready to post at mid June if no delay from the factory.

*Dayan ZhanChi prototype*


----------



## calvinfan (Jun 1, 2011)

*New Strict Price Control Policy takes effect from 1st June 2011*

We are the agent of Meffert's puzzles, main distributors of Dayan and mf8 cubes in Hong Kong.
In our cube business, we do have the rules to control the market prices and let our customers, those shops selling cubes, can survive and earn a living for their family.

Lightake ingore/break all our rules, and sell the cubes like rubbish, that indeed insult all our inventors, factories, distributors and the cubers. 
Are we selling rubbish ? the cubers playing with rubbish ? the answer should be simple ...

After having round-table discussion with all our inventors, factories and also main distributors, we have already set a very strict rules to control the market prices, which takes effect on 1st June, today.

We have enough tolerance on Lightake, and particularly looking at him now. Hope, he will not break our rules again.
If anyone find that lightake or other online sellers are doing another big discount or the set price having much difference with me, http://www.hknowstore.com/.
Then, we shall take action again them by all means. And, we shall set the prices at the same prices or below their prices.

Thanks for the time of all of you. Anytime, you can reach me at my personal email, [email protected].


----------



## Zubon (Jun 1, 2011)

What? Lightake was selling much cheaper than you so you forced them to raise their prices to the same level as you?

I think you will lose a lot of friends on this forum by doing that. Why do you want to control the prices? Can you be more specific as to how lightake is selling cubes "like rubbish"? And by forcing lightake to raise their prices, how will it remedy this problem? How exactly does lightake having cheaper prices insult cubers?

In the capitalist world we live in, businesses who can sell products cheaper get more business. That is how it works.


----------



## gundamslicer (Jun 1, 2011)

Zubon said:


> What? Lightake was selling much cheaper than you so you forced them to raise their prices to the same level as you?
> 
> I think you will lose a lot of friends on this forum by doing that. Why do you want to control the prices? Can you be more specific as to how lightake is selling cubes "like rubbish"? And by forcing lightake to raise their prices, how will it remedy this problem? How exactly does lightake having cheaper prices insult cubers?
> 
> In the capitalist world we live in, businesses who can sell products cheaper get more business. That is how it works.



Yes but they are the supplier of the products. They are the ones that sell it to do them


----------



## Stefan (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm confused...

Are you the maker/supplier of the cubes?
- If yes, then can't you just sell to Lightake for a higher price so they need to have higher prices as well to still make a profit?
- If not, then what is your right to make rules for them?

Also, I thought price-fixing was illegal...


----------



## Zubon (Jun 1, 2011)

gundamslicer said:


> Yes but they are the supplier of the products. They are the ones that sell it to do them


 
Of course they are free to do this, but I can't imagine that the people in this forum would be too happy about them controlling the prices. 

Lightake run their website with a very small profit margin. This is why they can be cheaper than other stores. If they pay the same for the goods as the other vendors but sell for less, that makes regular cubers like you and me happy. 

At least he could have said the real reason for the price fixing, rather than slandering lightake, saying that they were "selling rubbish" or whatever he was trying to say. Sure, if lightake has poor service, or a lot of their cubes are broken due to cheap shipping options, he would have a valid point, but making lightake raise their prices will only mean that the members of this site will pay more for cubes and Calvin will profit by diverting more customers to his store. Lightake will not change how they do business.


----------



## MaeLSTRoM (Jun 1, 2011)

I think some of the anger might be over Mefferts KO's on Lightake as well, which harm Mefferts as a company and remove profits from them.


----------



## Zubon (Jun 1, 2011)

MaeLSTRoM said:


> I think some of the anger might be over Mefferts KO's on Lightake as well, which harm Mefferts as a company and remove profits from them.


 
I think this may be a reason for some of the anger. Lightake sells KO Mefferts puzzles and they also sell genuine ones for a higher price. If this was a big problem for Mefferts, surely they would be able to prevent them from selling their genuine puzzles and try to somehow pursue them legally to stop selling KO versions.

I just can't see how any of this has anything to do with or can justify price fixing, which although it is in a legal gray area, it certainly is not moral.


----------



## Stefan (Jun 1, 2011)

Zubon said:


> price fixing [...] certainly is not moral.


 
Why not?


----------



## Zubon (Jun 1, 2011)

Although this is nothing compared with price fixing done by oil companies, etc. price fixing in general removes competition between retailers, and makes the consumers pay more for what they are getting. This is the reason why it is illegal in some areas. Although Calvin has not told the entire story here, I think it is easy to see how one could think that this is not moral.

Although this is not strictly price fixing because the two parties are not conspiring together to raise prices for mutual benefit, rather it is one retailer who also controls supply, forcing other retailers to raise their prices. 

The supplier is free to sell cubes to retailers at any price they like, but who are they to make rules as to how much the retailers can profit off the sales?

Anyway, if this works out, we can say goodbye to cheaper DaYan cubes on sites like Lightake. For me it doesn't make much of a difference but for people who buy a lot of cubes and have little money, it makes a difference.


----------



## Stefan (Jun 1, 2011)

Zubon said:


> price fixing in general removes competition between retailers, and *makes the consumers pay more* for what they are getting. *This is the reason why it is illegal in some areas.*



_"In the United States, agreements to fix, raise, *lower*, stabilize, or otherwise set a price are illegal per se."_
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing#Legal_status_in_the_United_States_and_Canada

Explain.




Zubon said:


> I think it is easy to see how one could think that this is not moral.



I don't see it.


----------



## calvinfan (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks for the response of all of you.
The School has the regulations; The Soceity has the law.
In our cube business, the factores have the rules, wholesalers have the rules, the retailers also have the rules.

On internet, there are no borders. Every online stores can be regarded as the shops nearby.
Say for an example, one McDonald besides another McDonalds nearby selling half prices of the others for the Hamburger and French fries. 
Another example, one apple shop besides another apple shops nearby selling the iphone 4 at a much cheaper price.
If no price policy and the market has no rules, think about what happens ...

As I am mainly doing the wholesales business, we got tooo many complaints from our honur customers about the under-cutting prices on Lightake, and also their coupons. 
This even happens when the cubes are just released, their prices are as low as selling rubbish. That under-cut others profit and raise the price wars, end-up hurting all the people engaging in the cube business.

We need to be fair to those retailers who follow the rules. We are all not willing to see the Price Wars happens.
Hope our cube business can grow steady and healthy with your kindly support.


----------



## kenlui (Jun 1, 2011)

Stefan said:


> _"In the United States, agreements to fix, raise, *lower*, stabilize, or otherwise set a price are illegal per se."_
> -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing#Legal_status_in_the_United_States_and_Canada
> 
> Explain.



Below it states price fixing is still legal in some area. 
"However, price-fixing is still legal in the magazine and newspaper distribution industry. Retailers who sell at below cover price are subject to withdrawal of supply. The Office of Fair Trading has given its approval to the status quo."

Price control policy is also very common in retail chain stores. 
In my family, there are also several family rules.


----------



## izovire (Jun 1, 2011)

There is something known as a Retail Minimum, which is sort of a fixed price that retailers are not to go below, for competition fairness. For example when I ordered wholesale from Speedstacks there was a retail minimum of $20.45 for the stack timer. The retail minimum is strictly enforced by most US companies and I can see why there needs to be the same for China and other countries producing/selling puzzles. With the KO puzzle market there is a false belief that all twisty puzzles are suppose to be cheap if they are made in china. 

It looks like a lot of lightake customers are use to their lower prices and that is not very good for them after so long. So I can see why people will complain about their price increases.


----------



## demma (Jun 1, 2011)

calvinfan said:


> Say for an example, one McDonald besides another McDonalds nearby selling half prices of the others for the Hamburger and French fries.
> Another example, one apple shop besides another apple shops nearby selling the iphone 4 at a much cheaper price.
> If no price policy and the market has no rules, think about what happens...


I think this rule doesn't apply here because your examples are shops under the same franchise. Here we have different shops from different owners.



calvinfan said:


> As I am mainly doing the wholesales business, we got tooo many complaints from our honur customers about the under-cutting prices on Lightake, and also their coupons.
> This even happens when the cubes are just released, their prices are as low as selling rubbish. That under-cut others profit and raise the price wars, end-up hurting all the people engaging in the cube business.


I think this sentences have no sense. If you sell a cube for 10 dollars to LT and other 3 shops you are getting what you want: 10 dollars that represent the value of the "respect" that your inventors, factories, ect. want/need.


----------



## theace (Jun 1, 2011)

demma said:


> If you sell a cube for 10 dollars to LT and other 3 shops you are getting what you want: 10 dollars that represent the value of the "respect" that your inventors, factories, ect. want/need.



This is pretty much the same thing that I was wondering about. I mean, the maker and supplier get what they ask for! How does it matter what I do with my cubes? I can jolly well buy a 100 GuHongs and sell them for a dollar a dozen. It's MY loss not Dayan's or the retailer's or the wholesaler's!


----------



## calvinfan (Jun 1, 2011)

theace said:


> This is pretty much the same thing that I was wondering about. I mean, the maker and supplier get what they ask for! How does it matter what I do with my cubes? I can jolly well buy a 100 GuHongs and sell them for a dollar a dozen. It's MY loss not Dayan's or the retailer's or the wholesaler's!


Thanks for your message on my post.
Just like what izovire at #16 said, will speed stack USA allow their retailers to sell their products below their Retail Minimum ?

Another questions : when you register an account on speed-solving or twisty-puzzles forums, do you need to agree on the forum agreements ? 
if you refuse the forum agreements, will you able to register an account ?

After our new price control policy taking effect on 1 June 2011, each retailers have to agree on the agreements so that we supply them the cubes. Every industries have their rules.
Of course, this is not compulsory. You can either sign the agreement and get the cubes for sales, or you refuse the agreement and not to sell the our cubes.
Thanks for your time. ^^


----------



## Stefan (Jun 1, 2011)

kenlui said:


> Below it states price fixing is still legal in some area.
> "However, price-fixing is still legal in the magazine and newspaper distribution industry. Retailers who sell at below cover price are subject to withdrawal of supply. The Office of Fair Trading has given its approval to the status quo."
> 
> Price control policy is also very common in retail chain stores.
> In my family, there are also several family rules.


 
That doesn't answer what I meant (what I highlighted). Zubon pretty much said that the reason why it is illegal is that consumers have to pay more. But if agreements to *lower* the price are also illegal, that reasoning doesn't make sense.


----------



## Stefan (Jun 1, 2011)

calvinfan said:


> Another questions : when you register an account on speed-solving or twisty-puzzles forums, do you need to agree on the forum agreements ?
> if you refuse the forum agreements, will you able to register an account ?



So had Lightake agreed to the rules it broke? If so, then you have a case, and you really should've mentioned that...


----------



## Clayy9 (Jun 1, 2011)

Stefan said:


> So had Lightake agreed to the rules it broke? If so, then you have a case, and you really should've mentioned that...


 
No; starting today, they have to agree to the rules. Before, they didn't have to.


----------



## Fred Bloggs (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm not buying any more cubes if this price fixing is in place!
Consumers can also set prices. If I don't like your prices, I will not buy. If we all do the same, I'm sure the prices will get lower!


----------



## James Ludlow (Jun 1, 2011)

Stefan said:


> But if agreements to *lower* the price are also illegal, that reasoning doesn't make sense.


 
of course it does.

Tesco and Asda buy 1000 cubes at £10each, and Costcutter can only afford to buy 100 at £15each
Market minimums are given as £17.50.
If Asda and Tesco agreed to sell their product at £12.50 - still making the £2.50 that Costcutter would make selling at the minimum price permitted - then clearly, for Costcutter to remain competitive, they will make a loss.

Okay, I have picked random figures, but surely this makes sense?


----------



## Stefan (Jun 1, 2011)

James Ludlow said:


> Tesco and Asda buy 1000 cubes at £10each, and Costcutter can only afford to buy 100 at £15each
> Market minimums are given as £17.50.
> If Asda and Tesco agreed to sell their product at £12.50 - still making the £2.50 that Costcutter would make selling at the minimum price permitted - then clearly, for Costcutter to remain competitive, they will make a loss.


 
But does that make the consumers pay more?


----------



## Fred Bloggs (Jun 1, 2011)

It may force someone out of business and then the price is increased as there is no longer any competition.


----------



## Zubon (Jun 1, 2011)

Stefan said:


> _"In the United States, agreements to fix, raise, *lower*, stabilize, ....."_
> --Explain



This is not related to this issue but....Imagine that McDonald's and Burger King both agree to sell 20 cent hamburgers, wait until all other smaller burger chains go broke and them raise their prices back up and enjoy more market share. Can you not see how that could be illegal or immoral?


----------



## Stefan (Jun 1, 2011)

Zubon said:


> Imagine that McDonald's and Burger King both agree to sell 20 cent hamburgers, wait until all other smaller burger chains go broke and them raise their prices back up and enjoy more market share.



That doesn't rely on price fixing, though. If McDonalds wanted this, they could just do it and then Burger King would drop their prices as well in order to stay in business. It's an issue independent from price fixing.



Zubon said:


> Can you not see how that could be illegal or immoral?


 
I can see people might declare it illegal, though I'm still not sure why. And no, I don't really see immorality there. Maybe because I gave up my idealism about the world a while ago.


----------



## Zubon (Jun 2, 2011)

Stefan said:


> That doesn't rely on price fixing, though. If McDonalds wanted this.......



Still unrelated to the topic but...Imagine if all franchise owners of *shell* gasoline stands called each other up and organized
to drop their prices to 1 cent per liter from 10am on monday. They have a lot of money so they can afford to do this. Faced with the sudden loss of customers, all of the mom and pop, family run gasoline stands would be forced to close because they can't compete. Once the non-conspiring gasoline stands close, the conspirators can raise their prices to $100 per liter and motorists are forced to pay. 
Extreme example but I think it is easy to understand.


----------



## izovire (Jun 2, 2011)

Zubon said:


> Still unrelated to the topic but...Imagine if all franchise owners of *shell* gasoline stands called each other up and organized
> to drop their prices to 1 cent per liter from 10am on monday. They have a lot of money so they can afford to do this. Faced with the sudden loss of customers, all of the mom and pop, family run gasoline stands would be forced to close because they can't compete. Once the non-conspiring gasoline stands close, the conspirators can raise their prices to $100 per liter and motorists are forced to pay.
> Extreme example but I think it is easy to understand.



That is sort of an example of lightake. They can afford the thin profit margin due to the very large selection of products other than twisty puzzles. With a large customer flow why not lower the price even further to get more people? Eh?


----------



## calvinfan (Jun 2, 2011)

Stefan said:


> So had Lightake agreed to the rules it broke? If so, then you have a case, and you really should've mentioned that...


Stefan, cheers ^^, you are on the way back home.
Mr. Dayan had spent several years on his designs for GuHong, Lingyun, LunHui, the coming Zhanchi, the coming Lingyun 2 and also Gem I, II and III.
He is going to build up a worldwide brand as Rubik and Meffert, not a brand of cheap cheap toys. We do appreciate his passion, contribution, heart and blood, particularly for speed cubing area.
Mr. Dayan had talked to Lightake in person about the pricing system, only he argeed the terms, he can get the cubes. 
For Gem I and II, their prices are the official prices, but they trickily offer 10-15% coupon at the very begining and brand new which under-cutting all other Dayan retailers. 
Mr. Dayan does not know English, but it does not mean that Lightake can play-around and bully him. When Mr. Dayan was extremely angry and stopped supplying him the cubes, he continue their prices and bullying Mr. Dayan with their stocks.
Please do respect Mr. Dayan and also Mr. mf8.


----------



## MaeLSTRoM (Jun 2, 2011)

So lightake's supplies of Dayan cubes has got more expensive becuase they can't get any more, or becuase they have been forced to make them more expensive?


----------



## demma (Jun 2, 2011)

Calvinfan, I'm not defending LT, but I think your arguments are a little bit personal against them. Did you read my previous post? I think this is simply a commercial issue because LT sells more than others, no way this is a matter of honour, respect, heart and blood, etc. Like I said before: if you sell to LT a cube for 10 dollars thats the value of the honor/work of Mr. Dayan. 15 dolars for a 333 cube is cheap cheap rubish? Did his honor get ripped off by 80 dollar cents disccount?



calvinfan said:


> He is going to build up a worldwide brand as Rubik and Meffert, not a brand of cheap cheap toys.


Will he raise the prices up to win "honor"? Please explain it because if not, this sentence has no sense. Dayan gains the "honor" and respetc of the cubing world because of the quality of their cubes and designs, not because it's a respectable or honorable worldwide brand or their cubes are the most expensive around. Nobody think that Dayan cubes are cheap cheap toys,even if your main cube is a non Dayan. If this is some marketing/bussiness strategy I think is way too much for the cubing world, go and sell cheap cheap rubish for stupid prices to some hipsters and snobs.



calvinfan said:


> Mr. Dayan does not know English, but it does not mean that Lightake can play-around and bully him.


This is way too much.


----------



## fiftyniner (Jun 2, 2011)

In recent times, there have been a sharp increase in the prices of the price of guhong, lingyun, lunhui and the expected zhanchi.

If the cubes were meant to be at these prices, it would have been the most "expensive" at the time of guhong's birth - with costs of initial set up, 'invention', etc. Increasing price is (at least to all appearances) an attempt to cash in on a very popular cube. Nothing wrong with that as the market will always find a way to balance itself. 

As we can see some consumers (like me) are not very happy. In fact I have decided to forgo the zhanchi - don't need it till I am able to sub10 (in my case, in another decade!) or get it as a collector item. It is more curiosity that got me forking out good money to try dayan's cubes.

I find it strange - if Mr. Dayan really wants to build up his brand, I thought the better way would be free market - sell at whatever prices he desires but _*allow *_the various competiting sale channels sell at whatever prices that would move his products quickly. He should really focus on his products instead of getting involved with the retailers.


----------



## Stefan (Jun 2, 2011)

calvinfan said:


> Stefan, cheers ^^, you are on the way back home.


 
I've been at home for a while... I can only guess this is a badly translated idiom 



calvinfan said:


> Mr. Dayan had talked to Lightake in person about the pricing system, only he argeed the terms, he can get the cubes.



Ok, that's helpful to know, essential to understand the situation. At first I thought you made up rules for your group and then tried to force them on an independent outsider as well. If they had agreed to them and broke them, that's something else. The coupons do look a bit sneaky now, though whether they actually break the terms is of course still impossible for us to tell without knowing exactly what they were. Anyway, I just hope your new terms work out well, so everybody is happy.


----------

