# Request for a random state, NON-optimal 2x2 scrambler



## DavidWoner (Nov 18, 2010)

Yeah title. I dig the appeal of random-state scrambling, but giving optimal scrambles becomes a problem for 2x2. Short and/or 2gen scrambles can lead me (and I know others) to try/look for solutions we wouldn't otherwise try if someone else had scrambled the cube. This bothers me. I was wondering if it would be possible to make a random state scrambler that always spits out 12(?) move scrambles. This way you wouldn't ever be able to reverse the scramble to get the optimal solution, inadvertently or otherwise. It'd be cool if this was implemented into existing scramblers *cough*qq*coughcough* I'd do it myself but I suck at computers and the like. Thanks.


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## Cyrus C. (Nov 18, 2010)

If you don't mind switching timers, cubemania isn't optimal.

EDIT: qqTimer has an option for non-optimal scrambles. 

Whoops, read over those words.


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## DavidWoner (Nov 18, 2010)

What are the 4th and 5th words of the title?


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## joey (Nov 18, 2010)

Want this!


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 18, 2010)

Isn't this what you want?

But I guess that's not built into timers. Yet.


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## qqwref (Nov 18, 2010)

I could put it into qqTimer if you want. Wouldn't be hard.


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## Anthony (Nov 18, 2010)

qqwref said:


> I could put it into qqTimer if you want. Wouldn't be hard.


 
Yes, please.


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## RyanO (Nov 19, 2010)

I think pyraminx scrambles would benefit from this as well.


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## Kirjava (Nov 19, 2010)

RyanO said:


> I think pyraminx scrambles would benefit from this as well.


 
loltips

Dan should add this to Nibblr...


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## maggot (Nov 19, 2010)

i really want this as well. because when i am practice 2x2, if i dont look away while im scrambling and then randomly drop my cube on a table and pick it up funny, i tend to try to look for backward solns. after 1000's of scrambles, i can read the last 5 or so moves of the scramble and then look at my cube while i am applying them. its not so bad for the 8-10 move scrambles, but for the 5 move ones, yeah. . . i feel like sometimes the short scrambles i cheat myself unless i do some kind of dice roll with my cube. and if i do get a good time, i dont regard it.


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## Kenneth (Nov 19, 2010)

Would it be possible to create a scrambler for 2x2 and/or pyra that has a built in solver without to much hassle? The idea is to not use random position but random face moves. Let's say you create a 25 move FRU for 2x2 and then let it find a 12 move solution (all positions must be solvable in more than one way using 12 moves).

I find face scrambles harder on average than random setup for both 2x2 and pyra (don't ask me why it is so but it seems so to me =) this is the reason for me asking this.

Or if not a solver just a look up table that has got scrambles for all positions if it is a downloadable scrambler.

Hmm, that would be useful in three ways, random position look up, random face move position look up and also select random scramble from the list.


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## Kirjava (Nov 19, 2010)

Kenneth said:


> I find face scrambles harder on average than random setup for both 2x2 and pyra (don't ask me why it is so but it seems so to me =) this is the reason for me asking this.


 
They are actually less random.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Nov 19, 2010)

If you are tempted to backtrack the moves when you are scrambling for opt 2x2, then what you can do is after you're done scrambling toss/spin your cube up in the air, catch it, and start inspecting.

I do think something like this would be cool though.


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## joey (Nov 19, 2010)

But you still have the knowledge of an easy scramble.


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## Carrot (Nov 19, 2010)

I want an 11 move scrambler for pyraminx... because I get really annoyed when I know that it's an easy scramble...


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## Godmil (Nov 19, 2010)

You could always do the scramble twice. Maybe with a cube rotation in between?


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## Lucas Garron (Nov 19, 2010)

Godmil said:


> You could always do the scramble twice. Maybe with a cube rotation in between?


Not a good idea, especially when good ideas are not much harder.


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 20, 2010)

I note that the scrambler linked to by Mike generates a random cube position, but not a random cube orientation. It always leaves the DLB cubie in place. The OP didn't specify whether by "random state" he wanted both the position and cube orientation to be random or just the position. I suppose it doesn't make that much difference, but if you really want both random position and random cube orientation, you should specify that.

I also note that with Pyraminx, standard scrambles do not change the orientation of the puzzle. With self-scrambling, this makes it even easier to see how you need to turn the corners (or whatever you call the pieces next to the trivial tips) to align them correctly.


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## Kenneth (Nov 20, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> They are actually less random.



Yes, and I think that because you reach a level of around 9 moves optimally and then you kinda walk in circles there when applying more moves. The chance of getting really easy scrambles (3-5 moves) is therefore smaller than with random setup and that makes it harder on average.


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## Lucas Garron (Nov 20, 2010)

Kenneth said:


> Yes, and I think that because you reach a level of around 9 moves optimally and then you kinda walk in circles there when applying more moves. The chance of getting really easy scrambles (3-5 moves) is therefore smaller than with random setup and that makes it harder on average.


Sorry to be blunt, but: I thought you'd be better at this math. The distribution levels out completely, and it does *not* walk in circles; you could make a sort of argument for it, but it's irrelevant. And of course, there's always a minuscule skew toward solved.


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## qqwref (Nov 21, 2010)

Alright, guys, qqTimer now supports suboptimal random state scrambling for 2x2x2 and Pyraminx. You can still use optimal random state scrambling if you want, but the default is the suboptimal one. So now it should be less obvious when you get a stupidly easy scramble.

That is: all scrambles generated will be exactly 11 moves (not counting trivial tips) since that is God's Number for those two puzzles. You can set the minimum to something other than 11 if you want, but I don't recommend it, since there is really no point in doing that.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 22, 2010)

qqwref said:


> Alright, guys, qqTimer now supports suboptimal random state scrambling for 2x2x2 and Pyraminx. You can still use optimal random state scrambling if you want, but the default is the suboptimal one. So now it should be less obvious when you get a stupidly easy scramble.
> 
> That is: all scrambles generated will be exactly 11 moves (not counting trivial tips) since that is God's Number for those two puzzles. You can set the minimum to something other than 11 if you want, but I don't recommend it, since there is really no point in doing that.


 
Awesome - thanks! I'll definitely be using qqTimer for 2x2x2 practice from now on.


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