# Yish is a liar



## Stefan (Dec 24, 2007)

Of course if I make a claim like that, I have evidence.

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Part 1) This video from this thread. 

He applies the scramble correctly, the twisting is not edited, and the time is correct. However...

The solve is incredibly easy after a complicated xcross:
scramble: B2 D U2 R2 F2 D2 L2 F2 D2 L2 D' R2 U F' D U B' R' U F2 U' L2 U'
9 moves extended cross: *B2 (R' R) U (R' R2) U R' F' U L R'*
3 moves second pair: *B' U B*
3 moves third pair: *B U B'*
4 moves fourth pair and OLL: *U R U2 R'*
PLL = *edge 3-cycle*

There are canceling moves in his xcross.

He said "couple of f2ls. zbf2l. pll solved". There's no ZBF2L and there's no OLL or PLL skip.

When asked why he didn't inspect, he replied "shuffle for so long, along the way i also inspect lor haha". This would already be hard to believe if it wasn't a complicated xcross and if he weren't *at the same time looking at the screen reading the scramble*.

He needs 24 seconds to scramble, suggesting he's a slow cuber.

The scramble has only 23 moves. He uses JNetCube which shows 25 moves scrambles. 

I painted the scrambled cube in Cube Explorer and let it generate it. Cube Explorer found this generator, which is *exactly* the same as Yish's scramble after a y2 cube rotation.
F2 D U2 L2 B2 D2 R2 B2 D2 R2 D' L2 U B' D U F' L' U B2 U' R2 U'

Conclusion: He probably constructed the solve and let Cube Explorer generate a fake scramble for it.

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Part 2) This video from this thread. 

Scramble with U=yellow and F=red:
F2 L2 U2 R F2 U R' B' F2 R2 U F2 R' F' L' R D' R2 (18f)
1 move during inspection: *D'*
8 moves double extended cross: *U B U B' R' U F B'*
3 moves third pair: *F U F'*
7 moves fourth pair: *B' U' B U' B' U' B*
6 moves OLL: *B U L U' L' B'*
PLL = *edge 3-cycle*

So again an incredibly easy solve after an (in this time even double) xcross (which was btw executed just as quickly as the rest of his solve). There's also some moves canceling again but this time I left them out.



yish said:


> during the handing over of the scrambled cube i fumbled and almost dropped it, so i accidentally spun the D face (need to adjust my cube tension) when i grabbed it before it hit the floor. so yeah >< didnt have time to shift it back then cos my friend started the countdown. so i had to observe first then shift it back into place.


This is his defense after someone pointed out he made the D' turn near the end of inspection. It could very well be the truth, as he probably knew the scramble perfectly and thus was able to recognize it wasn't correctly scrambled.

Conclusion: Probably another constructed and rehearsed fake solve.


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## Pedro (Dec 24, 2007)

nice job, Stefan
I think you should work at the FBI 

that makes me wonder why people do that kind of thing...just to look fast? what do they earn with that?

is that the same Yish who can solve straing CFOP bld in 30 seconds?


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## Stefan (Dec 24, 2007)

Pedro said:


> I think you should work at the FBI


They only take US citizens (see item 16). I looked at that a few years ago after getting a list of job opportunities from them after I competed in a programming competition they sponsored. Just for fun, though. I prefer being a free agent.


Pedro said:


> is that the same Yish who can solve straing CFOP bld in 30 seconds?


I guess so. Probably somebody watched him doing that and didn't notice him peeking, then told the story as if it were real, then Harris heard it and added the buzz word "photographic memory".


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## masterofthebass (Dec 24, 2007)

Wow Stefan, you really put a little bit of effort into this. I never suspected that yish was valid, but now there's not doubt in my mind he is a fake. I find it hard to believe that he could do stuff this fast without finger tricks as well.


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## Erik (Dec 24, 2007)

Good job Stefan Holmes , now where is that hat and pipe of yours? Oh yes you hate smoking .


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## Stefan (Dec 24, 2007)

masterofthebass said:


> Wow Stefan, you really put a little bit of effort into this.


About three hours (including my above accusal). Analyzing that 7.52 video was tough, it has small size, not good quality, and the right hand often covers the cube. Then again, I'm stubborn. And watched quite a lot of House recently. He da man.

If you're curious how I analyze videos: I use KMPlayer or TMPGEnc's "preview" functionality to watch the video frame by frame. I also use at least one real cube or an applet cube I move simultaneously to the video. For constructing a scramble for an already scrambled cube (like in his slower video) I use Cube Explorer.



Pedro said:


> what do they earn with that?


Lifelong distrust, I hope. What's his real name?
*Edit: As explained in my clarification post, I regret having said this this way.*


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## Jai (Dec 24, 2007)

I think I saw somewhere that Yish = Yi Sheng. I think that's his first name, assuming that Yish relates to his name.

You should make a video proving that it's fake, parodying the Michel Gondry fake solve proof vids, and also to get the word out there.


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## pjk (Dec 24, 2007)

Yeah, I know it was BS when I first saw it. Member "yish" said he got down to like a 13 sec avg in 3 months, and then posted those vids. Lets not get member "yish" mixed up with anyone else until we know for sure.

anyway, lets try to keep this forum on topic. Does this fit into "speedcubing" or "general talk" more?


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## Stefan (Dec 24, 2007)

chue.hsien seems to know him and called him Yi Sheng.

What's "general talk"? This forum was the most suitable I saw.


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## Dene (Dec 24, 2007)

This is specifically about a speedcuber right? So it should go i nthe speedcubng forum  . Nice job Mr. Pochmann, very good effort put in, just to prove him a liar  . I'm sure the FBI would be prepared to make an exception to the rule, just for yourself  .


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## Lotsofsloths (Dec 24, 2007)

Wow..
I couldn't do that in a million years, well maybe you should go around youtube proving even more fakes


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## MiloD (Dec 24, 2007)

I knew it!!!


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## Swordsman Kirby (Dec 24, 2007)

Lotsofsloths said:


> Wow..
> I couldn't do that in a million years, well maybe you should go around youtube proving even more fakes



There are simply too many.


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## badmephisto (Dec 24, 2007)

wow i'm impressed  nice job Stefan haha, that's a pretty thorough analysis


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## Kristoffer (Dec 24, 2007)

wow..Nice work Stefan (Y)


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## Lucas Garron (Dec 24, 2007)

Why is everybody congratulating Stefan?

It's simple: Everyone was suspicious, but no one knew for sure whether Yish was a fake.

Then along comes Stefan the hero and has all this fantastic evidence to prove his point! He looks like he's helping the speedcubing community through debunking!

Stefan must be obviously corroborating with Yish to set up this excellent scheme that makes him look so good. Yes, the video was a fake, but Stefan is equally much at fault for fraudulence.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 24, 2007)

Of course. How brilliant! So maybe Yish is actually fake - Stefan made him up?


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## badmephisto (Dec 24, 2007)

Mike Hughey said:


> Of course. How brilliant! So maybe Yish is actually fake - Stefan made him up?



ill get right on that. Expect me back with the evidence within 24 hours.


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## AvGalen (Dec 25, 2007)

OK, so just like Clark Kent and Superman I am going to have to ask the question:

Has anyone ever seen Stefan and Yish at the same time?

(Which is a stupid prove anyway because Superman would be fast enough to appear as 2 persons in the room at the same time)

Seriously Stefan, I like the effort you put into everything you do. I try to be as correct as you when I put stuff online, but it is _plane_ to see I don't always succeed.


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## Lucas Garron (Dec 25, 2007)

Also, Stefan, do you really expect us to believe he was that careless in creating a scramble? It's easy to get a 25-mover out of Cube Explorer:
R2 F2 U' F2 U R2 U B2 R2 B2 R D R2 B D' U2 F' U' B D' L' B R2 L' D'
That took me, like, two minutes...

You obviously made "Yish" (whoever he is, if he's real and not you) use a bad "easily generated" scramble to use as further evidence. 


(And if anyone is about to accuse all three of us together, I have this uncounterable defense argument: Yarholsky!)


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## Kemp_Drumsalot (Dec 25, 2007)

I hadn't even heard anything about this at all until this. Just watching the videos I could tell it was fake.


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## Dene (Dec 25, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> , but it is _plane_ to see I don't always succeed.



I'm sorry was this intentionally done wrong to make a point? In this case, it is "plain" that you want to use....


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## Lofty (Dec 25, 2007)

i think the fact that he went out of his way to make it italic shows it was intentional.
Very Nice Work Stefan! You have made the world a better place for us all to live.


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## Tim Reynolds (Dec 25, 2007)

Hmm, who says Yish isn't using the new proposed method of scrambling: generating cubes with sub-optimal solutions to random cubes from cube explorer? Isn't that what's been discussed on the yahoo group and the WCA forum a bit? He might have generated the scramble with cube explorer then switched to JNetCube for the actual timing (a switch we don't see, so I concede my point probably isn't valid). That said, I don't actually believe that Yish is honest. For me, the turn during preinspection seals it. But there is a possible, albeit unlikely, explanation.


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## Dyste (Dec 25, 2007)

I don't think he meant to use "plane", but is probably not that used to differentiating between the two homonyms. Either way, I don't think such hyperbole is necessary. It doesn't really do much to root out one liar in a world that is home to millions; if not billions.


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## Dene (Dec 25, 2007)

Bear in mind though, that from what I can see of my time here so far, this is a very open community, here to help and hone the skills of those not so good, and challenge those that are better. There is no need for someone to pretend to be so fast, if he clearly has the ability to do fast-ish solves genuinely (judging from his general move speed and such, I assume he can average in early 20's maybe). He's just wasting his time coming here trying to degrade others.... (or show-off, however you see it).


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## Derrick Eide17 (Dec 25, 2007)

*stands up and claps*
BRAVO stefan man! i watched that video actually somethingl ike 1-2 weeks and i was VERY SUSPICIOUS about it and on alex's comment it made me think about it EVEN more. then i come on this topic and see and i was like OMG I KNEW IT!! but man to bring out all those facts, and to figure out everything was AMAZING man. SO great job again stefan!

also this thread is getting a bit off topic what are we even talking about anymore? lol. we went from BRAVO STEFAN, to no bravo stefan, to is stefan yish himself?, to talking about the mispelling of a word such as plain lol.


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## van21691 (Dec 25, 2007)

oh wow.. nice work
It is suspicious if you watch his video again.

There is no possible that you can solve that fast without inspecting it.


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## chue.hsien (Dec 25, 2007)

lmao.. haven;t been on the forums for some time, and i come back seeing this lol. in sch around 2 mths ago, i scrambled a cube myself, and he solved it in 12sec. the 7.52 might be a fake (i hv no idea) but he still has a CubeExplorer embedded in his head. his bro is also as godly as him, he did 5 cfop blindsolves with around 3minutes of inspection time. now if only his bro could make a vid...

steven, look at this vid now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlXDr97IYN4


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## van21691 (Dec 25, 2007)

on the first solve. he did a speed blindfold.. he used Sune, possible?


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## van21691 (Dec 25, 2007)

he also used R' U' F' U F R to orient last layer


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## Lt-UnReaL (Dec 25, 2007)

It looks like he has an eye patch? He is just looking out of the other eye... :/


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Dec 25, 2007)

I've never seen anyone try so hard to disprove someones setup video. Well done Stefan!


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## Johannes91 (Dec 25, 2007)

chue.hsien said:


> the 7.52 might be a fake (i hv no idea) but he still has a CubeExplorer embedded in his head.


Then why does he make fake videos instead of real ones?



chue.hsien said:


> his bro is also as godly as him, he did 5 cfop blindsolves with around 3minutes of inspection time.


Do you except anyone to believe that?


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## chue.hsien (Dec 25, 2007)

yea i din believe it til i saw the 5 blindsolves.


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## AvGalen (Dec 25, 2007)

chue.hsien said:


> lmao.. haven;t been on the forums for some time, and i come back seeing this lol. in sch around 2 mths ago, i scrambled a cube myself, and he solved it in 12sec. the 7.52 might be a fake (i hv no idea) but he still has a CubeExplorer embedded in his head. his bro is also as godly as him, he did 5 cfop blindsolves with around 3minutes of inspection time. now if only his bro could make a vid...
> 
> steven, look at this vid now...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlXDr97IYN4


You are either very gullable, or you are in with them. If you really think someone has CubeExplorer embedded in his head you should do a search for "photographic memory" on this forum.

And I will stop making plain/plane jokes now. If putting them in italic is not enough hinting at a joke, I don't know what to do. My english is not really that bad, is it?


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## Lofty (Dec 25, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> chue.hsien said:
> 
> 
> > lmao.. haven;t been on the forums for some time, and i come back seeing this lol. in sch around 2 mths ago, i scrambled a cube myself, and he solved it in 12sec. the 7.52 might be a fake (i hv no idea) but he still has a CubeExplorer embedded in his head. his bro is also as godly as him, he did 5 cfop blindsolves with around 3minutes of inspection time. now if only his bro could make a vid...
> ...



I don't know Arnaud, I have seen a few cases here on the forums were most people missed someone's sarcasm. Maybe they just don't read every single post (save for some in the BLD) like I do to get all the jokes.
And I will not believe anything from Yish or his bro until I see it in official competition.


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## cielru (Dec 25, 2007)

Hi,

found something on this site.

Yish:

"i use a program called JNetCube or something.

Basically it is a timer and an algorithm generator.

So I generated a random algorithm to scramble my cube and then I timed myself (by pressing spacebar on the keyboard)."

http://sgcubers.com/forum/index.php?topic=36.0

This further proves that it should be a 25-moves scramble instead of a 23.


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## Stefan (Dec 25, 2007)

Lofty said:


> And I will not believe anything from Yish or his bro until I see it in official competition.


That's what I fear when it comes to BLD. Our current competition blindfolds certainly don't prevent cheating.


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## edd5190 (Dec 25, 2007)

chue.hsien said:


> lmao.. haven;t been on the forums for some time, and i come back seeing this lol. in sch around 2 mths ago, i scrambled a cube myself, and he solved it in 12sec. the 7.52 might be a fake (i hv no idea) but he still has a CubeExplorer embedded in his head. his bro is also as godly as him, he did 5 cfop blindsolves with around 3minutes of inspection time. now if only his bro could make a vid...
> 
> steven, look at this vid now...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlXDr97IYN4



That video is very strange. What caught my eye was an eyepatch serving as a blindfold? We're not that gullible.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Dec 25, 2007)

... The fact that you tapped the yellow CENTER also doesn't really cut it as a technique in BLD.

Oh and an eyepatch. I wasn't aware that people were THAT stupid.


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## Dene (Dec 25, 2007)

> And I will stop making plain/plane jokes now. If putting them in italic is not enough hinting at a joke, I don't know what to do. My english is not really that bad, is it?



Lol yea sorry, I thought it was a joke, but I probably missed posts that didn't make it so obvious  . You're doing better than me, at least you can speak multiple languages  (probably as well as most of the people here).


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## hait2 (Dec 26, 2007)

of all things, why would you fake something cube related? i mean, not to offend, but i'm pretty certain we all know the stigma associated with cubing.
to people that cube, it's fake. to people that don't, it's no different than any legit video out there

i mean if you're gonna fake something, at least fake something that makes you look cool to the general public rather than an idiot to the cubing community. i dunno, fake a bicycle stunt jump over a lake of pirahna fish or whatever the rage is nowadays (levitating street magic?). jeez~


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## badmephisto (Dec 26, 2007)

hait2 said:


> of all things, why would you fake something cube related? i mean, not to offend, but i'm pretty certain we all know the stigma associated with cubing.
> to people that cube, it's fake. to people that don't, it's no different than any legit video out there
> 
> i mean if you're gonna fake something, at least fake something that makes you look cool to the general public rather than an idiot to the cubing community. i dunno, fake a bicycle stunt jump over a lake of pirahna fish or whatever the rage is nowadays (levitating street magic?). jeez~



lol yea that kinda makes sense


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## Schwatz (Dec 26, 2007)

yeah but if that's true =\ does it mean that he is not faking it?

sure he could be faking it.. but as hait2 said. there is no point in faking it really. so maybe, we are over complicating matters. but i am still not convinced haha. as a 30 second cuber, 7 seconds seem impossible to me. but that's just me.


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## chue.hsien (Dec 26, 2007)

yea i dunno wtf happened to his left eye. but believe it or not, u gonna see him in future competitions. and i dun appreciate ppl calling me gullible if their jealous. for all u know he's a new-gen of wrister cubers. continue flaming... 7.52 isnt his average fyi. he averages around 12s. (meaning yish, not his bro)


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## jackolanternsoup (Dec 26, 2007)

sorry this seems off topic on the whole lying thing but how do you actually see what the guy's doing with all the fingertricks, bad youtube vid quality, and the fact its just over ten secs and whatever? cool investigating


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## Stefan (Dec 26, 2007)

chue.hsien said:


> he averages around 12s. (meaning yish, not his bro)


Wrong, he averages 10.5 seconds now:
http://sgcubers.com/forum/index.php?topic=56.msg494#msg494

And he got a nonlucky 6.61 single solve:
http://sgcubers.com/forum/index.php?topic=37.msg218#msg218



StefanPochmann said:


> Part 1) This video from this thread.


That video was posted one day after this:

optakeover: "You can also use the software [Cube Explorer] to reverse the solving, to show you how form a clean cube you are able to obtain the pattern that you input into the facelet editor."

yish: "woah sweet thanks! this will help me loads in improving my lookahead."


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## Pedro (Dec 26, 2007)

how will cube explorer ever help someone on lookahead? O_O


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## Stefan (Dec 26, 2007)

Seeing that both in the video and this thread people during that Singapore cube meeting apparently didn't question any of this at all, I guess I'll from now on be very suspicious of Singaporean cubers and their results in general. Good job!
*Edit: As explained in my clarification post, this came out wrong. I didn't intend to accuse any others of cheating or supporting cheating. What I meant to question was their ability and eagerness to detect cheating.*


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## Pedro (Dec 26, 2007)

I guess he is Nakajima version 2.0 

sube-14 in 3 months, sub-11 in 6 months...

wait...no...2.0...hmm...maybe more like 3.7


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## Dene (Dec 26, 2007)

Lol, you really are onto this guy aren't you Mr. Pochmann? I don't think he ever had a chance in the world >.<


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## Stefan (Dec 26, 2007)

His brother, the guy with the eye-patch who we're supposed to believe also broke the world record for regular 3x3x3 solve during that meeting, took over 11 seconds just for an N perm in his first solve in the 5-CFOP-BLD video, using a combination of d-adjustment, A perm, J perm and U perm:

d' d'
R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R
y
L' U R U' L U2 R' U R U2
R U' y' R L' B2 L R' d' R2

G-u-l-l-i-b-l-e. If Singapore ever has an official competition, I'll make sure the WCA is properly warned.
*Edit: As explained in my clarification post, this came out wrong. I didn't intend to accuse any others of cheating or supporting cheating. What I meant to question was their ability and eagerness to detect cheating.*


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## MiloD (Dec 26, 2007)

(this is awesome)


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## Harris Chan (Dec 26, 2007)

Geez, 6.61 single solve? Where's the scramble?

10.48 seconds avg? Well, at least my best average is still better than that phew


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## MiloD (Dec 26, 2007)

This thread exemplifies yish's naivety on the 3x3.

http://sgcubers.com/forum/index.php?topic=49.0

his "tutorial" on "pure wristing" is hilarious too!

http://sgcubers.com/forum/index.php?topic=58.0

"...And the question that pops out is “Why should you write this guide?”

I shall not answer the question first, but shall pose a question. “What are the important factors in speed cubing?...”



"haha i just want to show people that wristing can get you somewhere!

blehz to you finger trickers! XD all flash no substance mesays!" - yish, December 19, 2007

:confused: I guess he just cheats to make people start using their wrists. its a conspiracy!!


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## Dene (Dec 26, 2007)

LMAO wow that is insanely funny. I love his "half touching" percentages. You only use, say, 75% of your force? Wow, he really should study some physics before writing things like this. I just turned my R face a few times, trying to use "100%" of my strength, and it sounded as if my cube was going to break, so either he's weak, or he has no concept of strength. Trying to do a 90 degree rotation on the R face (ie. R/R') is virtually impossible at full strength (thanks to a concept know as "acceleration", we don't have enough time in the extremely short rotation to get to full strength). Ah, I'll stop ranting, he is now officially a liar, and a complete dunce.


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## Pedro (Dec 26, 2007)

"yeah. sorry back from church camp. i can only lookahead less than 30% of the time."

what does he mean with "less than 30% of the time" ?


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## AvGalen (Dec 26, 2007)

chue.hsien said:


> and i dun appreciate ppl calling me gullible if their jealous.


I am not jealous, so you should be ok with me calling you gullible 

(actually I said you were either gullible or in with them)


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## HelloiamChow (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm not calling you gullible because I'm jealours. I'm calling you that because you're gullible.

How does wristing help lookahead when you've got a hand blocking an entire face?


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## MiloD (Dec 27, 2007)

Pedro said:


> "yeah. sorry back from church camp. i can only lookahead less than 30% of the time."
> 
> what does he mean with "less than 30% of the time" ?



it means hes full of pure BS


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## amateurguy (Dec 27, 2007)

I hope we don't hit the logical fallacy of guilt by association (because I notice the topic is sliding in that direction). Just because Yish and his eye-patch bro are Singaporean doesn't mean all Singaporeans are liars at speeducbing.

For one, I have a cousin who lives there and is learning to speedcube. I've checked on him and he's learning great actually. And he doesn't set up his scrambles.

And I'm very sure there are Singaporean forum members here who might get offended with stuff like 'WCA must be warned of Singaporean cubing competitions'. 

But, on the other hand, nice investigative work and sleuth-like deduction, Mr. Pochmann.


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## Jilvin (Dec 27, 2007)

Wow, nice lol.

There are two things that got him:

1. 25 move scramble.
2. Claiming the wrong method.

WHAT HE COULD HAVE DONE TO COVER THIS UP BETTER:

1. Select a PLL case that is its own inverse and perform it on the cube.
2. Select an OLL Case which undoes only the corners.
3. At least take the liberty to look up a ZBF2L alg and perform it on the last slot, practice executing it.
4. Undo the other 3 slots backwards.
5. Undo the cross 4 or 5 moves.
6. Look at the currently "scrambled" case and go to a Cube Generator and plug in the stickers. It should give you a solve/unscramble.
7. HERES HIS PROBLEM: TOO LITTLE MOVES. Lets say it give him 23 moves like it did.

Now, all he needed was 2 more moves for a legit scramble. Now, go back and redo your cross, and pick 2 random moves, say L2 F. 

Make your cube so the first thing you apply is L2 F', and design it so it cooperates in solving your cross. This shouldnt be too hard.

He should also practise unscrambling it.


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## chue.hsien (Dec 27, 2007)

well, looks like i'm gonna be in the fray soon. and saying that sgcubers cheat juz isnt the way to go. make sure u eat ur words back in the future if he does a sub 13 at wca competition.


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## Jilvin (Dec 27, 2007)

OR

He could make up a 25 move scramble of his own, which has a relatively easy extended cross, (this shouldn't be too hard either, with some thinking).

Now, All you have to do is look up the cases for advanced multi-slotting for the first 2, the ZBF2L case for the last slot, and ZBLL for the last layer and you're good.

I average 25 seconds, I can only hope to have this method down someday.


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## ExoCorsair (Dec 27, 2007)

chue.hsien said:


> well, looks like i'm gonna be in the fray soon. and saying that sgcubers cheat juz isnt the way to go. make sure u eat ur words back in the future if he does a sub 13 at wca competition.



You know, I personally would take you a lot more seriously if you wrote legibly. (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one...)


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## pjk (Dec 27, 2007)

chue.hsien said:


> well, looks like i'm gonna be in the fray soon. and saying that sgcubers cheat juz isnt the way to go. make sure u eat ur words back in the future if he does a sub 13 at wca competition.


By looking at what member "yish" has posted, it is pretty obvious that he is trying to fool us, do you not see that? I have also requested that he posts a video of an avg of 5, just so we can get an idea of how good he is, and maybe even gain some tips. Of course, both times he comes up with an excuse. Yes, there are time where you can't post an avg video (which is understandable), but if you can't post something to prove yourself, why even post these amazing times? What do you gain by doing so? There is a valid reason to be suspicious.

On the other hand, if he can really do that, why not come out with an avg video, legit, and not only post videos of the bogus times?


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## qqwref (Dec 27, 2007)

How about this? Give him 5 scrambles that we've randomly generated, and then ask him to tape an (unbroken) average of 5 video. The best he'd be able to do is memorize those solves, and even if that were the case he couldn't get a sub-12 average of 5 unless he was already very fast at turning to begin with. So if his average is any good (and the video isn't sped up or anything) he's got to be legitimate.


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## CorwinShiu (Dec 27, 2007)

yish said:


> i am thinking of creating a method where you can manipulate the cube in such a way, that you always reach a same stage. then you can solve the first 2 layers through a fixed series of step.



Is a sub 13 cuber asking if it's possible to solve the cube with a repeated series of predetermined moves despite different scrambles? This is ridiculous. And also, the video of his brother doing 5 Fridrich BLD solves with memo of 3 minutes? The 3-look OLL just gave it away, remembering all the pieces affected by the moves orientation AND permutations. Also, what's with the cube rotations BEFORE you start solving? Generally (more like all), cubers would start with the preferred position so they don't have to memorize the rotation?


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## philkt731 (Dec 27, 2007)

You know what would be the funniest thing ever? if these guys were actually legit all along...


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## CorwinShiu (Dec 27, 2007)

philkt731 said:


> You know what would be the funniest thing ever? if these guys were actually legit all along...



If these guys are legit, I'll quit speedcubing and mail my cubes to one of you guys.


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## Dyste (Dec 27, 2007)

I don't think this is something to quit over. But in any case, I call "dibs". JK.(unless we're not kidding)


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## Swordsman Kirby (Dec 27, 2007)

Those forum posts are hilarious, let me just say.


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## Dyste (Dec 27, 2007)

This has turned into such a sordid discourse.


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## qqwref (Dec 27, 2007)

I think it's pretty zany actually, his posts on the forum seem so bizarre


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## Dyste (Dec 27, 2007)

Well, the generalizations of the integrity of certain inhabitants of areas isn't.


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## optakeover (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm also a Singaporean cuber who is learning speedcubing with them. I'm really new to the community and I myself don't know the full story as well. I also choose not to believe that he can solve 5 cubes blindfolded. Maybe I'll personally ask him when we meet up again...


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## garfield123 (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi, I'm a Singaporean Cuber too... well, I don't know if Yish and his brother are legit or not, can't tell for sure. I've seen that BLD multiple solve myself, but I can't comment much on it as I don't know much about BLD solving. Those two aside, I'm sure of one thing. Not all of us Singaporean cubers are as unscrupulous as what some of those who replied to this have made us out to be. We're really just a group of cubers striving to be better and enjoying the hobby, hanging out and just having fun. I don't think such discriminating comments are fair at all. Perhaps it's just the hype of all this discussion that's causing the feelings of discrimination to arise. "I hope we don't hit the logical fallacy of guilt by association (because I notice the topic is sliding in that direction). Just because Yish and his eye-patch bro are Singaporean doesn't mean all Singaporeans are liars at speeducbing." How true. In my opinion, we gotta let things cool down a bit, forgive and forget yeah. Cubing was never meant to be taken this seriously. Hate me all you want, but these are just my two cents. Peace.


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## optakeover (Dec 27, 2007)

I agree. Look guys, I'm neutral on this, although I voice my disbelief for the 5 cube blindfold. But, @StefanPochmann: I discourage you marginalizing Singaporeans just because you think all of us are cheaters and liars. From what I make out whatever you've said, you have absolutely no faith in the abilities of us. I may be new to cubing and even newer to this forums, but let me tell you that I'm only 16 years old but I'm mature enough to say that you're childish to astigmatise us in an opinion that we are not legitimate. Cubing should be used to bring people together on a single platform as a community, not to destroy people whom you believe are cheating and try to build a tenable ground to prove his fault. Wouldn't it suffice to just tell him not to? I can guarantee you that if I really know that he cheated during his 7 second solve and 5 cube blindfold movie, I will voice my honest opinion against it, but for that I'd have to see it for myself, and I don't have the chance. If need be, I'll make my own video evidence to prove his ability or if he is really cheating, to prove that he is.

Let me reiterate and add that you can voice your opinion and lay down whatever evidence to prove that he's cheating but,


StefanPochmann said:


> Seeing that both in the video and this thread people during that Singapore cube meeting apparently didn't question any of this at all, I guess I'll from now on be very suspicious of Singaporean cubers and their results in general. Good job!



is totally uncalled for.


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## optakeover (Dec 27, 2007)

As a second reply,


StefanPochmann said:


> chue.hsien said:
> 
> 
> > he averages around 12s. (meaning yish, not his bro)
> ...



YOU ARE MISUNDERSTANDING MY PURPOSE OF MY POST. My intention was to tell people about how to use it. It is not to prove whatever claim that yish was cheating whatsoever. 

_"You can also use the software [Cube Explorer] to reverse the solving, to show you how form a clean cube you are able to obtain the pattern that you input into the facelet editor."
_ 

If cube explorer doesn't work like that, SOMETHING IS WRONG.

PLEASE let me clear the air about the post by pasting whatever that I mentioned at http://sgcubers.com/forum/index.php?topic=24.0:






_http://kociemba.org/cube.htm

This is by far the most powerful cube solver that I have come across. It has also made its way to power a 'Cube-solving robot', Rubot II which you can see on Youtube. This software has the ability to solve the cube in about 18+ moves (depending on the settings, can also be 18, 25...). To us, using all the Fridrich, Petrus and other systems, solving a cube has very little maths(and IQ, really) involved, just sets of memorized manouveres called 'algorithms'. However, the creator of the software explains that the software has a mathematical explanation behind it. Hmmm....

The software has a Facelet editor, which is basically a cube with which you can paint in the pattern of your unsolved cube. It can proceed to examine the cube and supply a set of moves to solve the cube('Add and solve' button). You can also use the software to reverse the solving, to show you how form a clean cube you are able to obtain the pattern that you input into the facelet editor.(of course, in about 18+ moves as well. 'Add and generate' button.)

The software also has an 'Optimal solver' which attempts to solve the cube in less than 18 moves, unlike the normal 'Two-phase algorithm' mode. However, it takes a long time for it to map the moves, unless the cube has an easy scramble. It does have a 'Huge Optimal solver' that can cut the Optimal solving time by half. The software does say that you need 1 Gb of RAM, 673 MB free space in the software's directory and even recommends a 'just-rebooted' system before using it. For my computer, it doesn't meet the requirements, but it seems that the software greys out the checkbox so I can't seem to turn it on anyway...

It also has a pattern editor, but I'll leave it to you to experiment with it. The web cam feature allows you to use a robot with the software..._

THE REASON WHY I'M SAYING ALL THESE IS BECAUSE THAT STEFANPOCHMANN IS INDIRECTLY CLAIMING THAT I'M LIAISED WITH YISH IN HIS 'CHEATING' EFFORTS. 

This is inappropriate:



StefanPochmann said:


> ...That video was posted one day after...



Now, disregard Yish's post. If you take a look here: http://sgcubers.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=47,
you noticed that I joined the forums on 2 December 2007, and if you look here: http://sgcubers.com/forum/index.php?topic=24.0, my post was also dated 2 December 2007. In fact, this thread was started by me AFTER I SIGNED UP WITH THE FORUMS. If Stefan was so meticulous in his investigations, why did he get the date wrong?



StefanPochmann said:


> chue.hsien said:
> 
> 
> > he averages around 12s. (meaning yish, not his bro)
> ...



I know there are such things like International Date Line (which is a bit irrelevant, it's just for the sake of saying) and the difference in time zones between Singapore and the United States. But *3 days dfference is just ridiculous.* Therefore, if Stefan was not making any mistake at all, he must be mistaken to *QUOTE ME.*


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## Dene (Dec 27, 2007)

I think a lot of you are misreading Mr. Pochmann's comments. Yes, ok he did say he will be suspicious of Singapore cubers, but I think when he was talking about warning the WCA, it was not directed at all Singaporean cubers, but the few who seem extremely suspect (as in Mr Yish here). I'm sure you (with your almost perfect grammar and rather advanced language for a 16 year old) are no threat to the genuine cubers' community, and thus I applaud you for your efforts towards making cubing a much larger and more internationally recognised sport.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Dec 27, 2007)

Dene are you suggesting that 16 year olds do not possess sufficient knowledge about the rules of grammar?


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## Dene (Dec 27, 2007)

I am suggesting that a 16 year old who is capable of writing like that without any adult help, with perhaps a little bit of work in their grammar (and spelling), would be capable of receiveing a scholarship in English here in New Zealand. Is English their first language? I guess that question can be aimed directly at them.


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## optakeover (Dec 27, 2007)

Well, unlike some of my other Singaporean friends, I'm brought up in an English-speaking environment, rather than a Chinese-speaking (Chinese is the majority race in Singapore) and other language-speaking ones. Therefore, my command of the language is significantly stronger, compared to some of those I know in school, who struggles with the language. I did get an A1 for English in the Singapore-Cambridge General Certificate of Education Normal levels examinations, but the N-levels is considered insignificant as I am from the Normal(Academic) stream, while most of my other friends are in the Express stream, who goes on to do the Ordinary levels immediately, whilst I spend an extra year doing the N-levels, then proceeding on the next year to do the O-levels, which is next year for me and the rest of my classmates.

@Dene: I understand, but still it is quite unnecessary to say "...the few". Even if there are, before joining a WCA-sanctioned competition they should be briefed over the rules and regulations laid out by the WCA board and Ron van Bruchem, as failure to complete their tasks in the competition could mean waste of time and money(due to administrative needs for the competition. Well, nothing comes free in this world, except salvation from Jesus Christ). Besides, I firmly believe that there are definitely no allowances for cheating. According to Article 8f of the World Cube Association Competition Regulations Version 2007:

"If the WCA regulations are not followed correctly during a competition, then the WCA board may declare the competition, specific events or specific solves unofficial."

Because of this, I have a inference that Stefan is just marginalizing and that he is turning this into a witch hunt. Well, this debate could go on forever.


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## Pedro (Dec 27, 2007)

optakeover said:


> YOU ARE MISUNDERSTANDING MY PURPOSE OF MY POST. My intention was to tell people about how to use it. It is not to prove whatever claim that yish was cheating whatsoever.


He, at no point, said your post was intended to prove whatever claims...



> If cube explorer doesn't work like that, SOMETHING IS WRONG.


yes, it works that way...you put the colors and it generates a short (or optimal, if you want) solution to that cube state
what I (and I guess most people here) don't understand is how in the world would cube explorer help someone's lookahead 



> THE REASON WHY I'M SAYING ALL THESE IS BECAUSE THAT STEFANPOCHMANN IS INDIRECTLY CLAIMING THAT I'M LIAISED WITH YISH IN HIS 'CHEATING' EFFORTS.


I don't think he's saying that...he said nothing about you trying to help Yish in his cheating...at least I didn't understand that from all his posts...



> ...But *3 days dfference is just ridiculous.* Therefore, if Stefan was not making any mistake at all, he must be mistaken to *QUOTE ME.*[/size]


he wasn't quoting you
he was quoting Yish's response to your post about cube explorer

his response was on december 4th, and he posted the video here at december 5th, so "one day after..." is indeed correct


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## optakeover (Dec 27, 2007)

Let me reproduce what he said:



StefanPochmann said:


> chue.hsien said:
> 
> 
> > he averages around 12s. (meaning yish, not his bro)
> ...



Now, please look at this line:



StefanPochmann said:


> optakeover: "You can also use the software [Cube Explorer] to reverse the solving, to show you how form a clean cube you are able to obtain the pattern that you input into the facelet editor."
> 
> yish: "woah sweet thanks! this will help me loads in improving my lookahead."



A mistake made: by quoting in this manner, he is putting me into the issue. I'm out of it, please. I'm just here to show that I might been wrongly placed into this issue.


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## Schwatz (Dec 27, 2007)

i think that all of this can be settled if this member yish here posts up an actual pb video instead of single solves. cos frankly i have my doubts, and i dont like to accuse people of being liars and cheaters, so i am going to send him a message, telling him to post up an average video of 12.

it is a bit laughable though. we are all flaming him here and he probably doesnt even know it. imagine if he is legit. though i seriously doubt so.

it is just my humble opinion, but i dont think i will say anything until say he does/ doesnt post up an average video by like 3 days or something? but that is just my personal take on this issue.


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## Pedro (Dec 27, 2007)

optakeover said:


> Let me reproduce what he said:
> 
> (...)
> 
> A mistake made: by quoting in this manner, he is putting me into the issue. I'm out of it, please. I'm just here to show that I might been wrongly placed into this issue.



nah, I still don't see you being put into the issue

he was just quoting Yish's response to your post about cube explorer...


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## Kenneth (Dec 27, 2007)

After seeing the vids and reading the what Yish writes... Yish can't do a sub 30 average, probably even not sub 40.

chue.hsien, you are as bad as Yish & the bro and it would not suprise me if "chue.hsien" is a marionette for "Yish" (same user, diffrent names).


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## Dene (Dec 27, 2007)

You could find out? If the administrators can see their IP, it will be the same (most likely) if done on the same computer...


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## pjk (Dec 27, 2007)

After all, does it matter if "yish" is a fake? Who cares? I couldn't care less. However, if he is a fake, he isn't welcome here.


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## Stefan (Dec 27, 2007)

*Clarification:*

optakeover's comments require some clarifications from me:

1) *I do accuse Yish and his brother (the guy with the eye-patch) of cheating, and have said so explicitly.*

2a) *I do not suspect any other Singaporean cuber of cheating, or supporting cheaters.* I do realize one of my remarks can be interpreted to imply this, but this was not intended. I apologize.

2b) As far as I understand, you're *the* Singaporean cube club and forum, and I hadn't seen any of you express doubts in the video, your forum, or here. So I was wondering what you'd do if you run a competition. *I don't question your honesty, but I'm unsure about your ability or eagerness to detect dishonesty.*

3) Mostly, my Singaporean remark was designed to arouse you guys, and to make Yish aware that there's more at stake than just himself. I was the first to publicly express doubts about your group as such, but I'm sure others have felt similarly (in the above 2b way). And I don't want that. I'd much rather see your group take action and see Yish come clean. When I said "lifelong distrust", I was still very angry from his acts. I believe he will have to deal with that, but I shouldn't have said I "hope" for it. That was uncalled-for, and I apologize. (Edit: I read the context again. Actually Pedro had asked what people cheat for and my reply was "Lifelong distrust, I hope". But of course that doesn't literally make sense, and the "hope" was mostly for the cheater being caught, the lifelong distrust then being a consequence of that. But it was still unnecessary, so I still apologize.)

Other issues:

- I didn't attack your cube explorer post and didn't say that you're supporting Yish with it. I applaud you for finding CE and telling your fellow sgcubers about it. It's a great program. I only posted your remark to put Yish's in context. I thought that was obvious. You explained that one can find scrambles for given cubes, and that's exactly what I suspect Yish has done one day after seeing it (that's where the "one day" came from, I did see you posted earlier, but he didn't).

- The "good job" referred to chue.hsien and the sgcubers not expressing any kind of doubts, thereby making me doubt more than just Yish (again in the 2b way). Thus obviously it wasn't my good job but yours (and particularly chue's, for various reasons), and "good" was ironic, in a sad way.

- You said that if WCA is incompetent at detecting cheating in blindsolving, it's also incompetent at that in sighted solving. I don't think so. It's much easier to cheat in blindsolving than in sighted solving, and it also has a much more significant impact. You'd probably understand if you knew more about blindsolving and how WCA competitions work.

Finally, I'd like to say I didn't think this issue would take on the proportions it did. I'm also not happy with some of the added arguments like the tapping of the center, which I agree is irrelevant. I was hoping the whole issue would be sorted out quickly, because to me the evidence is clear, and I consider myself enough of an expert to judge this correctly.


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## FU (Dec 28, 2007)

Hi there I am a Singaporean cuber myself if most people have already realized 

To be honest, I have seen "yish's brother" in action before, and I was at the scene of the supposed '5-cube blindfold'. *I do not believe anything I saw.* He just looked too fake, and although he did a couple of sub-10 solves at the gathering that day, I was not impressed because I just didn't believe it was possible. In one of his solves, I did a count of the number of moves in his solution, it was ~25. You know what that means. What's more intriguing was that I didn't even see him complete cross, and he was already yelling 'X-cross... F2L pair... intuitive ZB...' which seems really rubbish.

Everyone else seems amazed but of course there were a couple of skeptics that wished to remain quiet for the rest of the gathering. Just to share what I feel. I am very disappointed if he / his brother are fake (which I can't really say although there is overwhelming evidence). I can however vouch though chue.hsien is genuine, he is a pretty nice guy and he does sub-20 on average easily.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted that '5-cube blindfold' video in the first place. I was very doubtful of its authenticity and already predicted flaming but was urged to post it up to show people how good supposedly yish's brother was. Just to summarize, I am disappointed that yish / his brother's actions have tarnished the name of Singaporean cubers but I hope the international community will give us a chance and not condemn our entire local community over this. Thanks


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