# HELP: No clue where to start



## Sturkman11 (Jul 13, 2007)

HEy everyone, im new to blndfold cubing. I obtain an average of 34.33 for regular 3x3 speedsolving, and i want to learn how to blindfold solve. I have read many sites and tutorials, but i just dont know where to start. Can anyone help me>? Thanks.


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## hait2 (Jul 14, 2007)

Sure thing, I can help you out with the 3cycle method. LaffyTaffyKid can confirm that I'm not so horrible at teaching even if I suck at solving myself 
PM me with AIM/MSN/IRC contact, whatever suits you best


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## LaffyTaffyKidd (Jul 18, 2007)

OMG !!! Hait2 is THE BEST TEACHER!!!!!! He has a lot of patience teaching me (i screwed up like 5x and had to redo A LOT of the cube). Trust me sturkman11, hait2 is the best teacher (from what i know). Just that before he teaches you, you should go read like PJKs or Mackys guide on how to blindfold cube just to give you an idea, so when hait2 says something, you'll understand what he's talking about


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## hdskull (Jul 31, 2007)

i'm reading macky's guide right now, but i'll probably need clarification on a couple of things also.


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## pjk (Jul 31, 2007)

If you post what you need here, I and the rest of the members can help you if you want.


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## Sturkman11 (Jul 31, 2007)

I read the guide, I decided to just put 2/3 Cylce Blindfolding on hold for a while. Just until i got my first sub-30 avg. I avg. 33.23 now.:>


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## Lt-UnReaL (Aug 1, 2007)

I really don't understand blindfold cubing either...I read Macky's tutorial but all it shows for edge and corner orientation is when they are in the layer they are supposed to be in...how do I get the piece in the layer so it can be oriented??? If I do a 'setup move' which I don't really know what that is, wouldn't the permutation get messed up or something, how can you memorize the permutation? Also, HOW do you memorize the cube? He really doesn't get into that...He says something like, "You can memorize a commutator of AU2xUA' and x=0,1,2 and 2 = A' CCw for corner 2 where A=R'D'RD and A'1cw2 is a commutator of A' being A'cw12kasj234798" BLAH
His tutorial is too long and confusing...


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## Jack (Aug 1, 2007)

Lt-UnReaL said:


> I read Macky's tutorial but all it shows for edge and corner orientation is when they are in the layer they are supposed to be in...how do I get the piece in the layer so it can be oriented???



Using a setup move to put a piece in the top layer will not mess up permutation if you only affect the two pieces that need to be oriented then undo the setup move. So if you have a corner at UFL and one in DFR that need to be flipped, doing R, any move that will flip the two corners there, then R' will orient those two corners.


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## hait2 (Aug 1, 2007)

Lt-UnReaL said:


> I really don't understand blindfold cubing either...I read Macky's tutorial but all it shows for edge and corner orientation is when they are in the layer they are supposed to be in...how do I get the piece in the layer so it can be oriented??? If I do a 'setup move' which I don't really know what that is, wouldn't the permutation get messed up or something, how can you memorize the permutation? Also, HOW do you memorize the cube? He really doesn't get into that...He says something like, "You can memorize a commutator of AU2xUA' and x=0,1,2 and 2 = A' CCw for corner 2 where A=R'D'RD and A'1cw2 is a commutator of A' being A'cw12kasj234798" BLAH
> His tutorial is too long and confusing...



i disagree, i think macky's tutorial is really good, pretty much nothing is left unsaid. he mentions what you need to memorize throughout the tutorial implicitly as well as in the example solves explicitly.

i.e.
1. Memorization
CP: (1 5 4 2 7 8 3)
EP: (1 7 9 12 11 4 5 8)(2 6)
EO: 3 5 7 10 11 12
CO: (2 1)(5 7 8 cw)

i guess in reality, the issue you're having is not understanding what setup moves are, which macky also explains quite clearly in his tutorial, as well as giving you additional link for further reading/explanation at jaap's puzzle page
read the tutorial more carefully, just about every question you have is answered in it 

sorry just needed to get this out there, since i think macky's tutorial is really well written and definitely is enough to get you bld solving without any other source, so people bashing it etc. annoys me to no end.

edit: guess i should mention that if you want any specific help or just cant figure out how to get started etc, i can go through an example solve with you if you have some sort of im client like msn/aim/whatever


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## Lt-UnReaL (Aug 1, 2007)

Jack said:


> Using a setup move to put a piece in the top layer will not mess up permutation if you only affect the two pieces that need to be oriented then undo the setup move. So if you have a corner at UFL and one in DFR that need to be flipped, doing R, any move that will flip the two corners there, then R' will orient those two corners.


That's a lot of setup moves then... o.0

hait2 add me to msn: [email protected][dot]com


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## hdskull (Aug 1, 2007)

Lt-UnReaL said:


> I really don't understand blindfold cubing either...I read Macky's tutorial but all it shows for edge and corner orientation is when they are in the layer they are supposed to be in...how do I get the piece in the layer so it can be oriented??? If I do a 'setup move' which I don't really know what that is, wouldn't the permutation get messed up or something, how can you memorize the permutation? Also, HOW do you memorize the cube? He really doesn't get into that...He says something like, "You can memorize a commutator of AU2xUA' and x=0,1,2 and 2 = A' CCw for corner 2 where A=R'D'RD and A'1cw2 is a commutator of A' being A'cw12kasj234798" BLAH
> His tutorial is too long and confusing...



hey, i found it confusing to me also(CO part, i haven't read past that), i think it's just the way he put it, i'm sure it's a good guide, so what i am doing now is i'm going to read tyson's guide first and then read macky's guide, because tyson's guide seems to be more understandable for CO. i started reading the guide today, and i can now correctly do CO w/o looking. haven't done EO yet cuz CO is what's been getting me stuck, but i'm sure i can do EO also, I have finals tomorrow and the day after, so i'll probably start on EP the day after.

thanks for all those that's willing to help us noobs.


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## hdskull (Aug 1, 2007)

Lt-UnReaL said:


> I really don't understand blindfold cubing either...I read Macky's tutorial but all it shows for edge and corner orientation is when they are in the layer they are supposed to be in...how do I get the piece in the layer so it can be oriented??? If I do a 'setup move' which I don't really know what that is, wouldn't the permutation get messed up or something, how can you memorize the permutation? Also, HOW do you memorize the cube? He really doesn't get into that...He says something like, "You can memorize a commutator of AU2xUA' and x=0,1,2 and 2 = A' CCw for corner 2 where A=R'D'RD and A'1cw2 is a commutator of A' being A'cw12kasj234798" BLAH
> His tutorial is too long and confusing...



hey, i found it confusing to me also(CO part, i haven't read past that), i think it's just phrasing is a little more advanced(e.g. i don't know what commutators are.), i'm sure it's a good guide, so what i am doing now is i'm going to read tyson's guide first and then read macky's guide, because tyson's guide seems to be more understandable for CO for a beginner. i started reading the guide today, and i can now correctly do CO w/o looking. haven't done EO yet cuz CO is what's been getting me stuck, but i'm sure i can do EO also, I have finals tomorrow and the day after, so i'll probably start on EP the day after.

thanks for all those that's willing to help us noobs.


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## hdskull (Aug 2, 2007)

*Bld*

okay, now i can correctly do EO and CO, but when i get the the cycles i get confused, can anyone post an example solve with the scramble so that i can see how everything works?

i use the 3 cycle method.

also a cycle e.g. (12345), i solve 123 first, but which goes where ? 3 goes to 1 ? if that's the case then i think i get CP but EP is still confusing. and the parity also.

thanks


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## AvGalen (Aug 2, 2007)

If you use 3-cycles than this is what would happen, both for edge and cornerpermutation:

Cycle: 147825|36
Meaning:
1 goes to 4
4 goes to 7
7 goes to 8
8 goes to 2
2 goes to 5
5 goes to 1
3 goes to 6
6 goes to 3
Solution:
First 3 cycle: 1->4->7->1
Second 3 cycle: 1->8->2->1
Finally a 4 cycle (more like 2 2-swaps): 1->5->1 and 3->6->3

(numbers were randomly chosen)


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## Johannes91 (Aug 2, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> Finally a 4 cycle (more like 2 2-swaps): 1->5->1 and 3->6->3


What do you mean, "more like"? One 4-cycle and two 2-cycles are two completely different things. (1 5)(3 6) is the latter.

If you have a cycle (a b c d e) and you cycle pieces (a b c), b and c get solved and you're left with (a d e). I'm sure Macky explained this, just read more carefully.


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## AvGalen (Aug 2, 2007)

Johannes91 is correct. I should have just said 2 2-swaps or 2 2-cycles. Just to be clear:
1536 (4-cycle) is not possible on a 3x3x3. You would do 153 and be left with 16.
15|36 is possible and you can use 2 2-swaps (H-Perm for 4 edges, H-Perm+U2 for 4 corners, T-Perm for 2 edges+2 corners for example)

All of this is indeed explained in Macky's guide. Everything you need is explained in there, really.


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## hdskull (Aug 2, 2007)

maybe that's the problem, i haven 't read macky's guide for Permutation yet, haha.

i just found out today he put up sample solves.

thanks for clarification arnaud.


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