# The Layer by Layer Podcast



## Kit Clement (Apr 7, 2020)

​
Andrew Nathenson and I have been doing a cubing podcast for a couple years now, so I figured I'd start a thread here too for when we post new episodes of the podcast! You're welcome to discuss episodes here, but we also have an official subreddit for discussing each episode linked below. You can click the logo above to see our Anchor page, which shows all the podcasting apps that we're listed on.

Latest: Episode 42 - The Game Show Featuring Feliks Zemdegs and Jayden McNeill!
Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/layerbylayer/


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Apr 7, 2020)

Wow. You finally made a page for it. Also you need to get Andrew in the forums bro.


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## ProStar (Apr 7, 2020)

lol it's about time you posted this. Haven't been listening long, but love the podcast. I like the idea where instead of interviewing guests, you kind of just add them to the normal madness that occurs. Can't wait for the next gameshow episode! Also you definitely need Andrew to get on here

- PR(oStar)

Edit: Wait is @ColorfulPockets real?


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## GAN 356 X (Apr 7, 2020)

I love your podcast! My favourite I've listened to so far has been the multi blind with graham siggins and mark boyanowski. I found that very entertaining


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## Toothcraver55 (Apr 7, 2020)

There should be seperate categories this year for gandalf related usernames on the subreddit and the ss thread


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## ProStar (Apr 7, 2020)

Question for Andrew: One of the places the podcast is hosted is Pocket Casts. Is that your less creative twin brother?


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## gruuby (Apr 8, 2020)

I've been listening since the first episode. Feet is gone! *Insert crab rave*


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## ProStar (Apr 8, 2020)

Nuuk cuber said:


> I've been listening since the first episode. Feet is gone! *Insert crab rave*



Kit: I'm kind of disappointed in our community in this...
Andrew: *continues crab rave*


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## ColorfulPockets (Apr 8, 2020)

Hello


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ProStar (Apr 8, 2020)

ColorfulPockets said:


> Hello
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'm skeptical, Andrew said at one point he wasn't on SS, and yet this user joined in 2013?


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## gruuby (Apr 9, 2020)

That's weird...


Sent from the McDonalds Ice Cream Machine using Tapatalk


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## ProStar (Apr 9, 2020)

Nuuk cuber said:


> Sent from the McDonalds Ice Cream Machine using Tapatalk



That actually made me break out laughing, haven't laughed at a forum post in a while, but this was hilarious somehow


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## ProStar (Apr 11, 2020)

What did everyone think of the livestream? I wasn't able to make it, but I'm ready for it to come out


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## NevEr_QeyX (Apr 15, 2020)

I love it when you mentioned the Squan scramblers at Mudd winter 2020 because I scrambled for Squan at that comp. And let me tell you... It's like all my squan practice just disappeared in a matter of seconds.


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## ProStar (Apr 18, 2020)

LOL Andrew called me out for thinking his account was fake in the new episode(not by name, but he specifically mentioned my comment)


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## brododragon (Apr 18, 2020)

ProStar said:


> LOL Andrew called me out for thinking his account was fake in the new episode(not by name, but he specifically mentioned my comment)


All publicity is good publicity?


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## Sub1Hour (Apr 18, 2020)

brododragon said:


> All publicity is good publicity?


I don't know if you need any more publicity with 2,500 posts


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## Cuberstache (Apr 18, 2020)

Can you guys please keep threads on topic thanks


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## ProStar (Apr 18, 2020)

Aw, you got rid of the 2x speed version of episode 32 on Apple Podcasts. I liked it better, good thing I have both downloaded


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## alexiscubing (Apr 19, 2020)

I watched the first one yesterday and it was really good!


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## Cuberstache (Apr 19, 2020)

Glad to see another 69-minute episode


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## I'm A Cuber (Apr 19, 2020)

I just listened to the new one, and I have only one thing to say: Snail


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## topppits (Apr 19, 2020)

Power to the people forums! (says the guy with 9 comments)

<3 the 2x speed version


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## ProStar (Apr 19, 2020)

topppits said:


> Power to the people forums! (says the guy with 9 comments)
> 
> <3 the 2x speed version



So glad I have the 2x one downloaded


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## Kit Clement (Apr 20, 2020)

As many of you have noticed already, Episode 32 - Hyperdimensional Supercomputer is out!


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## Cube Tribe (Apr 20, 2020)

Kit Clement said:


> As many of you have noticed already, Episode 32 - Hyperdimensional Supercomputer is out!


I really love emmm, please keep them coming  I hope you the best!


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## PapaSmurf (Apr 20, 2020)

ColorfulPockets said:


> Hello
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Woah, it's ColorfulPockets! Get discord pls and join the ZZ server (I know it has nothing to do with the podcast but pjk won't mind).


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## Cubeguy11 (Apr 20, 2020)

Wow cool finally sorry if I am a bit late but this is cool


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## ProStar (Apr 20, 2020)

@Kit Clement was the 2x version intentional as a special release or did Andrew mess up?



topppits said:


> Power to the people forums! (says the guy with 9 comments)



(And is partially in charge of r/Cubers)


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## Kit Clement (Apr 20, 2020)

ProStar said:


> @Kit Clement was the 2x version intentional as a special release or did Andrew mess up?



Definitely an accidental release. We've already pulled it out of our podcast distributor, but your podcast app might have downloaded it locally already. If you like the 2x version, most podcasting apps have features that let you play any episode at whatever speed you desire.


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## ProStar (Apr 20, 2020)

Kit Clement said:


> Definitely an accidental release. We've already pulled it out of our podcast distributor, but your podcast app might have downloaded it locally already. If you like the 2x version, most podcasting apps have features that let you play any episode at whatever speed you desire.



Would've been better as a special release, but I have it anyway. And the only reason I like it is because it's a limited edition, it's not as cool if you just play it at 2x


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## ProStar (Apr 25, 2020)

Andromedas "Andrew" Colorful Nathenson (Formerly Andromedas Colorful Pockets) has been put on trial for releasing an incorrectly edited version of the "Layer By Layer" Podcast. If proven guilty, he will be sentenced to 5 years of straight podcast editing, with each fatal mistake costing him another 6 months added to his sentence.


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## brododragon (Apr 25, 2020)

ProStar said:


> with each fatal mistake costing him another 6 months added to his sentence.


Shouldn't it be a lifetime sentence because fatal mistake = a mistake that costs your life?


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## ProStar (Apr 25, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Shouldn't it be a lifetime sentence because fatal mistake = a mistake that costs your life?



Another meaning is "leading to failure or disaster"


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## xyzzy (May 19, 2020)

Some comments about episode 32 (wall of text warning).


Spoiler: half of the scrambles, random-state scrambles, etc.



The hypothetical about half of the scrambles is interesting. Jaap Scherphuis once brought up how web browsers typically use 128-bit pseudorandom number generators, so for puzzles with large numbers of states (mainly a concern for 4×4×4), even if the scramble generator would have been truly random-state when using a true random number generator, the reality is that only a tiny section of the states can be produced at all by the scramble generator.

TNoodle uses Java's SecureRandom, which is guaranteed to be a cryptographically secure PRNG, but this could mean something like 256 or 512 bits of internal state, which is _still finite_. A 7×7×7 scramble uses about 564 bits of randomness, so even a 512-bit CSPRNG wouldn't be "enough". Then again, random-move big cube scrambles already have significant biases (not necessarily in a meaningful sense, but more in the "we know for sure some things are many orders of magnitude off (but still very rare)" sense), which shadow whatever minor biases come from imperfect random number generation.

j_sunrise and Ben Whitmore brought up megaminx scrambles in the r/layerbylayer subreddit. The R++/D++ megaminx scrambling method was often used as an example of how you can use a tiny portion of the entire state space and still have an "essentially" uniform distribution. What's important isn't really that the distribution is uniform, but that it's impossible to _efficiently distinguish_ the actual distribution from the uniform distribution—in principle one could go through all 2^70 possible megaminx scrambles to pick out certain biases, but the hope is that being able to reliably tell apart uniform sampling versus sampling among 70-move Pochmann scrambles should be "difficult".

In the hypothetical situation where a random half of the scrambles just can't be generated, it would likely take somewhere on the order of billions of scrambles to reliably distinguish this from a true uniform distribution (cf. birthday paradox), which sounds like it should be good enough.

(For what it's worth, I'm almost certain that the 70-move scrambles we're using for megaminx have _human-noticeable_ biases that can be teased out within maybe 100 scrambles, certainly much less than the billions mentioned above. I don't really have a solution to this besides "increase scramble length to 100+ moves", but I expect that that will not be received favourably, considering that people already complain about 70 moves being very long.)





Spoiler: algs for megaminx



Andrew already mentioned in the show itself some reasons why learning algs on mega has less impact than simpler/smaller puzzles like 3×3×3, and the one I agree with the most is the case count explosion. The number of cases typically grows exponentially with the number of pieces you want to solve; CLL on 3×3×3 (and variants like COLL, CMLL) has only 43 cases, but CLL on megaminx has almost 200 cases! (Usefulness of megaminx CLL aside; I'm just bringing this up as an example of combinatorial explosion.) The benefit per alg is much smaller, since each alg is useful less often.

It's also worth keeping in mind that there just isn't user-friendly software to generate algs for megaminx. Or big cubes, for that matter. You need to spend time messing around with ksolve or another solver, which is very unlike how for 3×3×3, you can paint the sides of a cube in Cube Explorer, click a button, and get hundreds of algs relatively quickly. Another thing is that many people treat megaminx (or big cubes) as side events, and are correspondingly less motivated to learn large-ish alg sets even if they're useful.

(I keep saying "or big cubes" because honestly I care more about big cubes than megaminx, but megaminx was what's mentioned in the show, so I'm focusing the discussion on that instead…)

Like Kit, I use comms to finish the last few corners on megaminx LL too. I used to know a couple of L4C algs and optimised 3-cycle comms, but have since forgotten them due to disuse.


bonus:


Spoiler: re: averages



Not mentioned in the episode itself, but mentioned by u/tasguitar on the subreddit.

I may or may not be writing up a post about that…


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## brododragon (May 19, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> Some comments about episode 32 (wall of text warning).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: half of the scrambles, random-state scrambles, etc.
> ...


Great Read!


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## ProStar (May 24, 2020)

Bump. New episode soon please @ColorfulPockets


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## NevEr_QeyX (May 24, 2020)

OK, so far the bell has been rung for the sail of a sail boat, what could that be?


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## ProStar (May 24, 2020)

NevEr_QeyX said:


> OK, so far the bell has been rung for the sail of a sail boat, what could that be?



Andrew was trying to get Kit to say "Sail", but he said "Snail", which still rung the bell


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## NevEr_QeyX (May 24, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Andrew was trying to get Kit to say "Sail", but he said "Snail", which still rung the bell


He then said "Close enough" and ended the podcast, leading me to believe that he meant the sail on a sail boat.


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## brododragon (May 24, 2020)

NevEr_QeyX said:


> OK, so far the bell has been rung for the sail of a sail boat, what could that be?





ProStar said:


> Andrew was trying to get Kit to say "Sail", but he said "Snail", which still rung the bell





NevEr_QeyX said:


> He then said "Close enough" and ended the podcast, leading me to believe that he meant the sail on a sail boat.


Haven't listened to the podcast, but definently sounds like a cubing podcast based on this conversation.


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (May 24, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Haven't listened to the podcast, but definently sounds like a cubing podcast based on this conversation.


It is a cubing podcast obstensively


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## ProStar (May 24, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Haven't listened to the podcast, but definently sounds like a cubing podcast based on this conversation.



It's not really a cubing podcast, they just talk about related subjects sometimes. Other topics include the sickos who eat the cream right out of the Oreo!


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## ColorfulPockets (Jun 5, 2020)

New episode soon! (As in, we’re hopefully recording tomorrow) 

(Posting here because I’m using this as an excuse to figure out how these forum things work)


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## ProStar (Jun 5, 2020)

ColorfulPockets said:


> New episode soon! (As in, we’re hopefully recording tomorrow)
> 
> (Posting here because I’m using this as an excuse to figure out how these forum things work)



Yay! Also, you already figured out how to remove the tapatalk signature, usually people never figure that out


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## Mikel (Jun 5, 2020)

Nuuk cuber said:


> I've been listening since the first episode. Feet is gone! *Insert crab rave*


Has University of Iowa Cube as Avatar, but has never been to an Iowa comp?


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## ProStar (Jun 5, 2020)

Mikel said:


> Has University of Iowa Cube as Avatar, but has never been to an Iowa comp?



"Shhhhhh..... _Irrelevant_" - Kit Clement


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## gruuby (Jun 5, 2020)

Mikel said:


> Has University of Iowa Cube as Avatar, but has never been to an Iowa comp?


I'm from iowa but live in Texas and am a huge Iowa fan


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## Mikel (Jun 5, 2020)

Nuuk cuber said:


> I'm from iowa but live in Texas and am a huge Iowa fan


I'm sorry for you. Go clones.


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## gruuby (Jun 5, 2020)

Mikel said:


> I'm sorry for you. Go clones.


I'm sorry for your football losses


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## ColorfulPockets (Jun 9, 2020)

New episode!






33: “Nice,” but Stupid — Layer By Layer — Overcast







overcast.fm


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## gruuby (Jun 9, 2020)

haha sans


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## ProStar (Jun 9, 2020)

I did the unnamed but cool event, don't look at my solution if you haven't done it



Spoiler: 3FM Dice Roll



14 Rolls, 50 Moves

Scramble: L2 B' U F2 B2 L F D' R' U2 D2 L2 F R2 B U2 F2 U2 R2 F

U2 F2 L' D // 1st Roll

B' D2 R2 F' D' F // 2nd Roll

// 3rd Roll

D F' L' F L2 // 4th Roll

D' L' // 5th Roll

D F' // 6th Roll

R F' // 7th Roll

R' F B R' // 8th Roll

B' L B R B' L' // 9th Roll

D2 R // 10th Roll

L' F2 L2 // 11th Roll

F L2 F R' L D' // 12th Roll

L2 D' F2 L2 // 13th Roll

D L2 F2 L2 // 14th Roll


Here's what my steps were:

U2 F2 L' D B' // 2x2x2

D2 R2 // 2x2x3

F' D' F // EO But Not

D F' L' F L2 D' L' D F' R F' R' F // L2P

B R' B' L B R B' L' // CLL

D2 R L' F2 L2 // M-Slice [Cancelled into ELL]

F L2 F R' L D' L2 D' F2 L2 D L2 F2 L2 // ELL



I used the same rolls and scrambles in Andrew's Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19YuG1BmWpYQn_2NCsJRE34FZ9rVp_Ign0QN3yByd1Hw/edit


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## ColorfulPockets (Jun 10, 2020)

ProStar said:


> I did the unnamed but cool event, don't look at my solution if you haven't done it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nicely done! Kit and I have been working on refining this event a bit, hopefully we’ll have some cool updates to make it more interesting next episode


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## BenChristman1 (Jun 11, 2020)

Spoiler: 3x3 w/ Face Results



Generated By csTimer on 2020-06-11 (solving from 2020-06-11 14:52:19 to 2020-06-11 15:01:43)
avg of 5: 1:10.708

Time List:
1. (DNF(1:39.636)) D B' L2 B2 L2 U2 B' U2 F2 D2 U2 F U2 R' U R U L2 R2 F @2020-06-11 14:52:19
2. 1:13.304 B2 D' L2 U2 R2 U' F2 D F2 U L' R D L2 B' F' U L B L @2020-06-11 14:56:51
3. (59.648) L2 D2 R' F2 L' D2 R' B2 D2 B2 U2 R' B D' F D2 R U F' U2 B' @2020-06-11 14:58:36
4. 1:01.267 L2 D L' F D B2 R' B D' B R2 B' U2 B U2 L2 U2 F' B' D2 @2020-06-11 15:00:19
5. 1:17.553 R U2 F2 R2 B' U2 L2 F' U2 F D2 R2 U B' D' F U' L B2 R' D2 @2020-06-11 15:01:43





Spoiler: 3x3 w/ Dice Results (Have I come up with a name???)



21 rolls
56 moves
13 minutes, 12.62 seconds
I just did a normal CFOP solve since I'm too lazy to do any sort of FMC.


Spoiler: Rolls Solution



1. L F'
2. B L D' F D
3. U L'
4. U L U2 L
5. U L'
6. U
7. B
8. U' B' F U2
9. F' U2 R
10. U R'
11. U'
12. R U
13. R2 U
14. R B U2
15. B' F' U' F U'
16. F' U F
17. U F R' F' R
18. R2 U' F B'
19. R2 F'
20. B U' R2
21. U





Spoiler: Actual Moves Solution



L F' B L D' F D // Cross
U L' U L U2 L U L' // F2L 1
U B U' B' F U2 F' // F2L 2
U2 R U R' U' R U R2 // F2L 3 (cancel into 4th pair)
U R B U2 B' // F2L 4
F' U' F U' F' U F U F R' F' R // OLL
R2 U' F B' R2 F' B U' R2 U // PLL


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## xyzzy (Jun 12, 2020)

(I'll ramble on and on about scrambles if you let me. (please don't let me))



Spoiler: big cube solvers and random-state scrambles



The solving algorithm used in the 555 solver is indeed reduction, but it's more like domino redux (orienting pieces and placing them into specific orbits) than like the speedsolving redux (solving centres then doing edge pairing). I and a few other people have been exploring other computer big cube methods, but the domino-like approach seems to be solidly in the lead in terms of move count. Unfortunately, large lookup tables (= high disk/RAM usage and long initialisation times) seem to be unavoidable, and even with the large lookup tables, it's not very fast.

In terms of speed or low memory usage, the centres-then-edges reduction method is probably better, but it'd also take 10-30 more moves.





Spoiler: subpixels



Boy do I have some Opinions about subpixels, completely unrelated to cubing. In fact, it's pretty much also unrelated to what Andrew said except for involving subpixels. Please disregard unless you're exactly the same type of nerd that I am. (I wrote a wall of text about font rendering here, then deleted it because it was way too off-topic.)

More relevant to what Andrew was actually talking about, maybe that's something like how 2D video games might require your positions to be accurate to less than a display pixel to do certain things? (I don't play video games much, but I watch speedruns sometimes and absorb the ideas through osmosis.) That seems to be more related to how the game engine might internally store locations as (e.g.) floating-point or fixed-point numbers, but they need to be rounded to integers to display a sprite on the screen. I don't think subpixel cursor movement is a thing in general.





Spoiler: difference between capped stickerless/black puzzles



Kit mentioned that the black-plastic versions of the Gan X/XS/etc. have unified piece caps, so you can't just make a stickerless-black puzzle out of it. I _think_ the Valk Elite does this too; the promotional pictures suggest that the black-plastic version has unified piece caps.

This is only tangentially related, but I really dislike the _stickerless_ Valk Elite (which I've mentioned before here), partly because of the capped design (which I haven't mentioned before). The Valk Elite's corner caps aren't held in very firmly, so they can get slightly dislodged and catch on other pieces mid-turn. (This happens especially often when I'm trying to do eido U2s and I'm not pushing the layer perfectly perpendicular to the axis.) I'm not sure if this is specifically because the stickerless version uses split caps, though, and perhaps the black-plastic version with unified caps also has this same problem.

What is more relevant is that while the corner caps of the (stickerless) Valk Elite can be pried off easily (exactly because they aren't held in firmly), the edge caps are nigh impossible to get out. There's barely any seam to use to push the caps out. Even if the black version used split caps, it would still be very difficult to make a stickerless-black version.





Spoiler: 3BLD scrambles for normal solving + extra rambling about scrambles



I've been doing this for _years_ now. When I post my scrambles/times, every so often I get asked about it, as if doing this is strange or abnormal or something. Maybe after this LBL episode this practice will be somewhat normalised.

Wouldn't it be funny if someone were to use 3BLD scrambles for 444? Ha ha, who'd fall for that

One interesting difference between csTimer's 3BLD scrambles and official TNoodle 3BLD scrambles is that in the latter, the wide moves at the end are _guaranteed_ to never cancel with the end of the "base" scramble, while this isn't the case with csTimer (where cancellations are common). This doesn't affect random-state-ness of the scrambles. Speaking of which, csTimer's FMC scrambles do guarantee that the base scramble won't cancel moves with the R' U' F prefix and suffix… but this is enforced by filtering the scrambles, which makes the distribution non-uniform. I'm pretty sure the cubers.io scrambles have this problem as well. OTOH, @Mike Hughey mentioned that he took care to handle this correctly for the weekly comps here. (Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find the post where Mike mentioned this.)





Spoiler: bonus note



>super intelligent, super knowledgeable
_yes please feed my ego more_

Really though, it's not like I'm good at programming or anything. I like the theory more than the practice (that's why I majored in pure maths, duh), and to whatever extent I bother writing code, it's only to put the theory to the test.



edit:


Spoiler: 333 with dice



Seems like a fun idea; might try it later.

10 rolls, 46 moves. (Didn't time, but probably 15-20 minutes.)
F2 U2 L' D F
B2 D F2 B D' R F'
R2 F' U F2
U' L' U L D'
L' U' L2 F D
F' D' L' U'
F'
U F' U'
F2 U' B L B' R2 B L'
B' R2 U2 F

Annotated:
F2 U2 L' D // almost 222
F B2 D F2 B D' // p223
R F' R2 F' U F2 U' // almost F2L-1
L' U L D' L' U' // corner comm to finish F2L
L2 F D F' D' L' // EO with fururf
U' F' U F' U' F2 // EP+1 with Sune
U' B L B' R2 B L' B' R2 U2 F // corner comm, AUF

Almost got to do a whole comm in the penultimate set, which certainly helped.


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## I'm A Cuber (Jun 13, 2020)

I think a better version of 3x3 with dice is to use a 1x1 instead of dice


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## ProStar (Jun 13, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> I think a better version of 3x3 with dice is to use a 1x1 instead of dice



Oh, we can get that guy that made like 100 1x1s to sponsor this at a competition!


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## NevEr_QeyX (Jun 14, 2020)

Hmm,
Bell 1: Sail from sail boat
Bell 2: Sail in reference to QiYi Sail
Bell 3: ~Weilong, which sounds like whaling or whale if you nix the ong part
Ergo the bell is rung for things found in the book Moby Dick, obviously.
Alternatively it could just literally be general ocean-y things.

@Kit Clement
@ColorfulPockets


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## ProStar (Jun 14, 2020)

NevEr_QeyX said:


> Hmm,
> Bell 1: Sail from sail boat
> Bell 2: Sail in reference to QiYi Sail
> Bell 3: ~Weilong, which sounds like whaling or whale if you nix the ong part
> ...



And the first one Kit said "snail" instead, which could ring the ocean-y bell


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Jun 14, 2020)

NevEr_QeyX said:


> Hmm,
> Bell 1: Sail from sail boat
> Bell 2: Sail in reference to QiYi Sail
> Bell 3: ~Weilong, which sounds like whaling or whale if you nix the ong part
> ...





ProStar said:


> And the first one Kit said "snail" instead, which could ring the ocean-y bell


Maybe it’s just the sound “ail”


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## NevEr_QeyX (Jun 14, 2020)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> Maybe it’s just the sound “ail”


OHHH, dangit why didn't I think of that!


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## ColorfulPockets (Jun 17, 2020)

SHORT NOTICE ANNOUNCEMENT: 

LBL stream tomorrow (Wednesday) at 12 noon Pacific Time! On the ColorfulPockets twitch channel!

EDIT: stream done! Thanks to those who came!


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## xyzzy (Jun 17, 2020)

I have no friggin clue how US time zones work, but I'm assuming that's 12:00 UTC−7, or 19:00 UTC. About five and a half hours from now?

---

edit: I was there for the stream but my mind was half asleep at that point (as it is now), so maybe I shouldn't have been…

My Twitch username is a visual joke based on the same username I use for GitHub/Discord/etc. I chose my username here (xyzzy) to be as generic as possible, originally with some intention of being separate from all my other online activity, but at some point I gave up on trying to maintain a million distinct online identities so it's now a mishmash of whatever. (Also, since I live in a Commonwealth country, the canonical pronunciation is axe-wye-*zed*-*zed*-wye. )

Speaking of Twitch, I streamed a couple of 2-7 relays two weeks ago and a couple of people hopped in to spectate, but honestly it's boring to watch someone solve cubes for like an hour straight, and nobody sat through the whole thing (except for myself, duh). Cube-related streaming probably only makes sense if there's already some pre-existing community around the streamer, to fill in the void when they're solving cubes and not paying attention to chat. (You guys did already mention this in the show, I think.)


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## ProStar (Jun 17, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> I have no friggin clue how US time zones work, but I'm assuming that's 12:00 UTC−7, or 19:00 UTC. About five and a half hours from now?



Yeah, it'll be in 5 hours. Just search "Pacific Time", that's what I do lol


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## I'm A Cuber (Jun 17, 2020)

lol, I’m listening to all the episodes again. I hope I’ll be able to make it (finger crossing emoji)


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## ProStar (Jun 18, 2020)

Missed it live again, had a doctors appointment  hope it will be out soon(*cough*). How'd the stream go?


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## I'm A Cuber (Jun 18, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Missed it live again, had a doctors appointment  hope it will be out soon(*cough*). How'd the stream go?


Pretty good. @xyzzy made it in again


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## ProStar (Jun 19, 2020)

Episode 34 - KUKUKUKUKU has been released!


Get rekt Kit & Andrew


It's just a prank bro


Mostly


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## ProStar (Jun 19, 2020)

My guesses for the bell:

Kit says the same letter/number/symbol twice in a row (i.e: he had had a trumpet)
Kit says a symbol (i.e: colon, semicolon, apostrophe, period(dot), etc.)


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## EngiNerdBrian (Jun 19, 2020)

I listened to this for the first time today while taking the dogo for a walk. It was interesting and I’ll have to check out some old episodes. We got rained on so I didn’t get to finish KUKUKUKUKU but I wanted to post and say the podcast was well done and caught my attention


----------



## ColorfulPockets (Jun 19, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Episode 34 - KUKUKUKUKU has been released!
> 
> 
> Get rekt Kit & Andrew
> ...



I’ll never complain about someone else doing my job for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [emoji3590]


----------



## ColorfulPockets (Jun 19, 2020)

EngineeringBrian said:


> I listened to this for the first time today while taking the dogo for a walk. It was interesting and I’ll have to check out some old episodes. We got rained on so I didn’t get to finish KUKUKUKUKU but I wanted to post and say the podcast was well done and caught my attention



Thanks! Glad you liked it!


----------



## BenChristman1 (Jun 19, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Kit says a symbol (i.e: colon, semicolon, apostrophe, period(dot), etc.)


That's my guess.

@ColorfulPockets I can't see the doc with the new rules. Is anybody else having that issue?



Spoiler: Scramble and Pockets



B R2 D2 F2 L F2 L' B2 L2 D2 R F2 U F' R' U F L2 D L'


Spoiler: Pockets



1. LLL FF R B D
2. LL FFF RR B
3. U RR BB DDDD
4. LL FF RR BBB
5. UUU LL F RR B D
6. UU LLL FF R DD
7. UUU LL FF RRR D
8. UUUU FF RR B DD
9. U L F RRR B DDDDD
10. U L F RR BBBBB DD
11. UU LLLLL FFFF R B
12. U LLLLLL F R B DDDD
13. UUUU L FFF BB DDDDD
14. U LLLL FFF R BB DDDDD
15. UUU LLLL FFFF RR BBBB
16. UU LLL FFFFF RRR B DDDD
17. UUUU LL FF RRRR BBBB DDD
18. UU LLLLLLLLLL F RRRRR B D
19. UU LL FFFFF RRRRRR B DDDDD
20. U LLL FFFFF RRRR BBBB DDDDD






I tried it and ended up with a DNF.


----------



## ColorfulPockets (Jun 19, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> @ColorfulPockets I can't see the doc with the new rules. Is anybody else having that issue?



Should be fixed now! I think


----------



## ProStar (Jun 23, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> @ColorfulPockets I can't see the doc with the new rules. Is anybody else having that issue?



xyzzy hacked it so he could hold the record. Also I'd be interested in hearing xyzzy on the podcast if you guys were serious


----------



## CG Dab (Jun 30, 2020)

The bell is when kit pronounces punctuation, like saying ‘slash’ out loud


----------



## ProStar (Jun 30, 2020)

CG Dab said:


> The bell is when kit pronounces punctuation, like saying ‘slash’ out loud





ProStar said:


> My guesses for the bell:
> 
> Kit says the same letter/number/symbol twice in a row (i.e: he had had a trumpet)
> Kit says a symbol (i.e: colon, semicolon, apostrophe, period(dot), etc.)


----------



## CG Dab (Jun 30, 2020)

I thought my guess was different enough from yours, and maybe only one of us would get it based on the different wording.


----------



## ColorfulPockets (Jul 3, 2020)

__





35: Happy Little Trees — Layer By Layer — Overcast







overcast.fm





A new episode!

Also, today’s LBL’s second birthday, so that’s cool


----------



## tx789 (Jul 5, 2020)

On algs the major reason why people say learning them isn't worth it is they're too lazy to learn algs.


I personally find the hard part of learning algs is retaining them. I can learn it quickly but remembering it for more than a few days or about a week is harder. I get sick of drilling the algs.


----------



## I'm A Cuber (Jul 5, 2020)

tx789 said:


> On algs the major reason why people say learning them isn't worth it is they're too lazy to learn algs


Literally me


----------



## Username: Username: (Jul 5, 2020)

tx789 said:


> On algs the major reason why people say learning them isn't worth it is they're too lazy to learn algs.
> 
> 
> I personally find the hard part of learning algs is retaining them. I can learn it quickly but remembering it for more than a few days or about a week is harder. I get sick of drilling the algs.


The major reason why I don't like learning algs is mostly because of unintuitive sequences or recognition e.g ZBLL or I'm just lazy


----------



## tx789 (Jul 5, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> The major reason why I don't like learning algs is mostly because of unintuitive sequences or recognition e.g ZBLL or I'm just lazy


It gets easier the more you learn. But beyond oll pll learning more algs has got a lot more of diminishing returns for 3x3. Working on F2L is usually a faster way to improve until a point.


----------



## Keroma12 (Jul 6, 2020)

@ColorfulPockets I was definitely not asking you to shame Kit lol. It's just that you guys were discussing that you used to keep track of everything in your head and said it wasn't working as well anymore. I also used to keep track of everything in my head too, and it worked fine. These methods of organization (the ones I sent to you) were pretty interesting to me and seemed relevant so I thought I'd share them. Although the methods do focus a lot on email, they're really about the four follow-up categories: calendar, tasks manager, resources, and read-later - any inbox, email being just one example, can flow into those four categories.
The main point being that if you actually funnel _all_ your tasks and events into a task manager and a calendar, you'll actually be motivated to look at them - as opposed to keeping some events in your head, some in your email, etc, and only some in your calendar. Centralization.
Again, not trying to shame Kit, just offer advice. Unless you're offering a recurring segment on shaming Kit - that I might be interested in.


----------



## ProStar (Jul 6, 2020)

Keroma12 said:


> @ColorfulPockets I was definitely not asking you to shame Kit lol.



That's what they all say


----------



## xyzzy (Jul 8, 2020)

Spoiler: counting positions



Ben already mentioned the generating functions thing for calculating positions on the subreddit. A different Ben (benpuzzles, the one who's really into FTO) also recently did a video about how the number of paths is related to Fibonacci numbers, using that to get a lower bound for god's number for FTO.

I also wrote two short Python functions to calculate the number of scramble sequences and the number of "canonical" move sequences in the Probability Thread a few months ago. (For canonical move sequences, you declare ahead of time that, say, if you have L and R moves next to each other, then they must be in the L-R order and not the R-L order. This means that the number of canonical move sequences is less than the number of non-cancelling move sequences, although the number of paths/cases will still be the same Fibonacci numbers either way.)





Spoiler: learning algs



I think Kit has this completely right: whether learning algs is good or not is dependent on the cuber. Blanket statements like "ZBLL is good and you should learn it" or "full OLL is useless and 2-look is good enough" are completely nonsensical, and yet it's all too common to see people suggesting not-quite-as-exaggerated versions of those two statements.

I really dislike the process of learning algs, but I like being able to use them in solves, so there's some tension there…

Regarding confusing algs with each other, that's definitely a problem I have too. I use like three ZBLL algs that start with D R' U' R D' (one of which is Gb perm) and I sometimes just confuse them with each other. There are some 2GLL cases where the "standard" algs most people use are Sune combos, but for some of them I use a completely different RU alg (e.g. R U R' U' R' U2 R U R' U R2 U2 R') just so my muscle memory for that alg is a separate thing and there's less risk of messing things up.





Spoiler: slice misalignments, outer block turn metric (OBTM)



There's one very nice property of OBTM that STM/BTM doesn't have: there's a _unique_ decomposition of moves on a single axis into outer block moves. Not so for block moves. Let's say we're looking at an n×n×n cube (n ≥ 2).

Assuming the cube's layers are only misaligned along the U-D axis, you can represent the rotation angle of each of the slices, relative to some independent reference, as some number from 0° to 360°. This gives a free module of rank n, (ℝ/(360°))^n. Since rotating the whole cube shouldn't affect the penalty, we can take the quotient by the rank-1 submodule corresponding to all whole-cube rotations along the U-D axis, leaving us with a rank-(n−1) module.

(N.b. if you don't know what a "free module" is, just think of it as a vector space, except that the coordinates are angles (and hence wrap around at 360°) rather than numbers you can freely multiply and do whatever with.)

With OBTM, we have the moves 1Uw, 2Uw, 3Uw, 4Uw, …, nUw, 1Dw, 2Dw, …, nDw. This is a set of 2n generators within (ℝ/(360°))^n, but if you quotient out by the submodule of whole-cube rotations, we get [nUw] = [nDw] = 0 and [kUw] = [(n−k)Dw] for all 1 ≤ k ≤ n−1, effectively leaving us with only n−1 generators. A set of (n−1) generators for rank-(n−1) ⇒ all of these are independent, and there is an _essentially unique_ way of writing any misalignment in terms of (possibly-fractional) outer block turns. The only source of non-uniqueness comes from replacing, say, 2Uw with (n−2)Dw, but these are really the same move written in different ways anyway.

With BTM, we have the moves 1U, 2U, 3U, …, nU, 1-2u, 2-3u, 3-4u, …, (n−1)-nu, …, which is a _much_ larger set of generators, with n(n+1)/2 elements; even if you quotient out by the whole-cube rotations, this leaves n(n−1)/2 generators. We get unique decomposition when this is equal to n−1, and the only way that can happen is if n = 2 (which makes sense, since that's where OBTM and BTM are truly equivalent). If n > 2, then n/2 > 1 and hence n(n−1)/2 > n−1, so there's _definitely_ no way our generating set can be linearly independent, which also means the decomposition will fail to be unique.

For a concrete example, let's look at a 3×3×3 and do an E move to a solved cube. Now, instead of using the "obvious" decomposition as 2U^−1, there are other possible decompositions, such as U^0.5 2U^−0.5 D^−0.5. With this choice of decomposition, we never need to do a move of more than 45° to fix the cube. In other words, no misalignment penalty!

With BTM, how should you choose _which_ decomposition to use to judge for misalignments? It's already non-obvious for n=3, and it only gets worse as you increase n, where the system of equations gets increasingly underdetermined.





Spoiler: some history on misalignment penalties



Also worth looking at the really old regulations here. Back in 2007, the allowed misalignment was essentially "line to line", which is a bit harsher than the 45° standard we now use, *but* you could misalign any number of layers and still have only a +2 penalty, not DNF! In other words, a U D2 or U2 D2 would have counted as +2 by those rules.

That changed in 2008 to something that resembles our current regulations a lot more. 45° turn limit, maximum of one pair of adjacent layers misaligned beyond that to still be considered solved.

If you clicked on those two links, do you notice something? The regulations used to have pictures in them!


----------



## AlphaCuber is awesome (Jul 8, 2020)

On the topic of twitch I think that cubing works well because with a good streamer doing sighted events it is essentially The just chatting stream category with a visual element, I also think it is better than YouTube as at the moment it Is not oversaturated and the community is older and more mature so the chat is generally still like a normal conversation in most streams and not just little kids trying to get attention (see: any YouTube comment section). Also I think things like channel points, bits and subs help make things interesting with options for challenges and community interaction (for example I have Various options for channel points to get me to do any WCA event and even 6bld).

Also @ColorfulPockets thanks for the raid on my 6bld attempt stream it helped get me to affiliate and was really cool as I am a massive fan of both this podcast (I think it might have been the stream of the podcast but I’m not 100% sure) and your videos.

I also want to mention I am learning ZBLL (very slowly) and I think most people overestimate how hard it Is to learn algs and also the importance of learning them.


----------



## EngiNerdBrian (Jul 30, 2020)

"Well it would force you to solve the cube next time"...


----------



## ColorfulPockets (Aug 3, 2020)

Episode 36 is here! Sweet Bread





__





36: Sweet Bread — Layer By Layer — Overcast







overcast.fm


----------



## Cuberstache (Aug 3, 2020)

"3,000,000 ÷ 64 ≈ 500,000" - A statistics professor


Spoiler



For anyone who misses the joke, the actual answer is 46,785, an entire order of magnitude off


----------



## xyzzy (Aug 3, 2020)

Spoiler: pyra scrambles



The 222/skewb/pyra scramblers in TNoodle all use random search, and are always forced to be exactly 11 moves long (iirc). (For pyraminx, this applies to the non-tip part of the scramble. This is _not_ related to the 6-move scramble filtering, which does count tips.) God's number happens to be exactly 11 moves for all three of these puzzles, but most states can be solved in 10 or less. If you always use the same move order when searching, the first solution found will almost always start with the first move you search, then a 10-move optimal solution, or the first two moves + 9-move optimal solution, or something along those lines.





Spoiler: mega scrambles



That's… interesting. The distance distribution of the individual edges is closer than I'd expected.

I still suspect that the _joint_ distribution is slightly (but noticeably) biased, though. Now that Kit's done some work on demonstrating that the individual edges have the right distribution, I should get off my lazy bum and do the same calculation for multiple pieces.

I primarily start my solves with blockbuilding rather than star (iirc @GenTheThief does as well) and having free corner-edge pairs helps this a lot. I did a small-scale experiment back in May, by visually inspecting scrambles with csTimer's "draw scramble". 50 moves definitely had too many free pairs (p value ~ 0.0004), while 60 moves, 70 moves, or 80 moves didn't have a statistically significant bias due to my small sample size.

Also, I don't remember if I came up with the term or if I read it somewhere else, but I like to think of "QTM" as standing for "quantised turn metric", rather than "quarter turn metric". Calling fifth-turns on a megaminx a "quarter turn" bothers me so much. (And what about "HTM" / "half turn metric"? I've always preferred "FTM" / "face turn metric" anyway.)





Spoiler: mirrored moves



Back when the Giiker was first released, Ben Whitmore did a thing where he simultaneously solved the physical cube and the virtual cube with different scrambles, where the virtual cube's moves were the inverse of the physical cube's moves (so U became U', L became L', etc., but the moves were still on the same faces). If you haven't seen it yet, go check it out.








edit:


Spoiler: budget relay



Maybe there should be an additional rule that says you can't use the same model more than once. Like, you can't just use three Little Magics.

My attempt:
Cubes: Tengyun M ($26), Guhong v3 M ($12), Cubing Classroom 45 mm ($4)
47.938, 49.736, 47.481, (52.097), (47.416) = 48.385 average

Didn't have any other cube under $12 that's worth using to fill in the third spot.


----------



## Kit Clement (Aug 3, 2020)

CuberStache said:


> "3,000,000 ÷ 64 ≈ 500,000" - A statistics professor
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Being bad at basic arithmetic when put on the spot is honestly a requirement for the job.


----------



## NeoBridgeburn (Aug 3, 2020)

'Is a hotdog a sandwhich?'

Matpat: 'Well no, but maybe yes.'


----------



## Cubing5life (Aug 3, 2020)

You should start a food podcast! The cubing community would really enjoy it!


----------



## NeoBridgeburn (Aug 4, 2020)

Cubing5life said:


> You should start a food podcast! The cubing community would really enjoy it!


Hmm, 'The Slice by Slice Podcast'?


----------



## EngiNerdBrian (Aug 5, 2020)

$20.97 budget relay: 1:35.74 (Yulong v2m, Qiyi MS, OG YLM)
$69.97 mains relay: 1:26.05 (Cubicle pro shop YLM, Cubicle Angstom YLM, Hand magnetized/setup Angstrom YLM)

...Solving cubes 2 and 3 without inspection sucks...I messed up the cross many times.


----------



## BenChristman1 (Aug 5, 2020)

MFJS 50 mm M ($3.99, $12.98 with magnets), Gan 356 Air ($22.99), Qiyi Thunderclap v3 M ($9.99) = $45.96

54.479, (53.130), 57.440, 56.177, (59.066) = 56.032 ao5


----------



## Cuberstache (Aug 5, 2020)

Qiyi MS ($7.99), Qiyi MS ($7.99), Qiyi MS ($7.99) = $23.97

(40.00), (32.75), 36.40, 38.70, 36.74 = 37.28 ao5

I main the MS anyway so this was pretty easy lol


----------



## ColorfulPockets (Aug 16, 2020)

__





37: Null Sets In Their Names — Layer By Layer — Overcast







overcast.fm





New episode’s out!


----------



## BenChristman1 (Aug 17, 2020)

Spoiler: 3x3 in Mirror



*1.* (1:22.742)
*2.* 1:54.456
*3.* 2:30.075+
*4.* (DNF) (I looked  )
*5.* 1:37.514
*Average:* 2:00.682





Spoiler: The Unreal-Man's Challenge






Spoiler: Solve 1 - DNF



Scramble: L B2 L D2 B2 L' B2 R' B2 D2 R2 D' R U' B' L' D' R B L

x2 U R2 U F2 y2 U R’ F R // Cross
U R U’ R’ // F2L 1
y’ R U R’ U R U’ R’ // F2L 2
y’ U D’ L’ U L D // F2L 3
y’ *U (missed this move in the reconstruction) *R U R’ U2 R U R’ // F2L 4
y’ r U R’ U’ M U R U’ R’ // OLL
y F R U’ R’ U’ R U R’ F’ R U R’ U’ R’ F R F’ U2 // PLL





Spoiler: Solve 2 - DNF



Scramble: L U' B2 D2 U' L2 D' L2 B2 U F2 R2 F U L R2 B' L' U2 L2

I started the reconstruction while I was solving. I'm kind of stupid. 





Spoiler: Solve 3 - DNS



I just had given up at this point.





Spoiler: Solve 4 - DNS



^





Spoiler: Solve 5 - DNS



^


Average: DNF


----------



## ProStar (Aug 17, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> Spoiler: 3x3 in Mirror
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think its Unreal-Man's challenge, cause it's like even more insane than Real Man


----------



## BenChristman1 (Aug 17, 2020)

ProStar said:


> I think its Unreal-Man's challenge, cause it's like even more insane than Real Man


Okay, I knew it was something like that, but I was too lazy to go back in the episode to find it. I have changed it.


----------



## EngiNerdBrian (Aug 23, 2020)

WHAT!?! How did i never notice this was possible!


----------



## gruuby (Aug 23, 2020)

EngiNerdBrian said:


> WHAT!?! How did i never notice this was possible!
> View attachment 13286


My eyes = False


----------



## I'm A Cuber (Aug 23, 2020)

EngiNerdBrian said:


> WHAT!?! How did i never notice this was possible!
> View attachment 13286


Can you post more pictures from different angles?


----------



## Spacey10 (Aug 23, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> Can you post more pictures from different angles?


Cubeorthims ludicrous unboxing has a 3x3x2, timestamps are in the comments, random person posted them


----------



## NeoBridgeburn (Aug 28, 2020)

If anyone really cares, here is where you find lit whether a hotdog is a sandwhich:


----------



## Spacey10 (Aug 28, 2020)

nairismic said:


> If anyone really cares, here is where you find lit whether a hotdog is a sandwhich:


THEY HAVE A CHANNEL CALLED FOOD THEORY?!?
IS THERE ANY MORE?


----------



## ProStar (Aug 29, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> THEY HAVE A CHANNEL CALLED FOOD THEORY?!?
> IS THERE ANY MORE?



Game Theory, Film Theory, Food Theory. Don't think there are any others


----------



## Spacey10 (Aug 29, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Game Theory, Film Theory, Food Theory. Don't think there are any others


Thank goodness! I would be freaking out of my recommendation were filled up with "..." Theory!


----------



## NeoBridgeburn (Aug 29, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Thank goodness! I would be freaking out of my recommendation were filled up with "..." Theory!


He did joke that the next channel is 'Fitness Theory: The Aftermath of Food Theory.'


----------



## freshcuber.de (Aug 30, 2020)

EngiNerdBrian said:


> WHAT!?! How did i never notice this was possible!
> View attachment 13286



I checked it out: My 2 domino cubes don't do that move, but (as I knew before) my (Dian Sheng) Crazy 2x2x3 does that half-turn move. On that cuboid I considered it always as a legal turn - like mixup moves on a Mixup Cube.

But on a regular 2x2x3 I would not have considered these turns as legal, because it's obvious that they are not following the outer geometry of that puzzle. They are only possible because the cubies have not cube form on the inside.
Now I see that this counts for the Crazy 2x2x3 as well. These moves have nothing to do with the circle structure of that puzzle.


----------



## xyzzy (Aug 30, 2020)

The illegal turns discussion makes me think of the Helicopter Cube (and related puzzles like the Curvy Copter, edge-turners of other shapes).

The cuts line up when you make an edge turn of about 71 degrees, allowing you to make a jumbling move on an adjacent axis. Was this _intended_ by the two people (Adam and Katsuhiko) who first designed a puzzle with such a mechanism? It's uncertain whether Adam knew about it when he first announced the Helicopter Cube, but at least Katsuhiko already knew by then. They did consider jumbling moves to be valid and legal, and today it's standard practice to assume so as well.

The external appearance of cuts might not be a strong argument for whether moves should be allowed either. After all, there are puzzles like the Pandora Cube, where the appearance would suggest that it can't turn at all, and yet it's just a 3×3×3 shape mod.

But as a purist, I'd say that shapeshifting turns on a domino cube shouldn't be considered legal, even if you could execute the moves without running into physical obstructions. Besides purism, there's also the obvious argument that not every domino cube can do those moves. And yet we can't just impose a blanket ban on the domino cubes that can do M/S moves, because the most popular ones would then be banned! While M' U2 M doesn't let you go into puzzle states that aren't solvable with normal moves, it does provide a significant shortcut to the "proper" domino solution U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U2; allowing this would seem like a huge unfair advantage for those with M/S-capable hardware.

(Briefly going into a tangent on the copter cubes again, I've seen comments to the effect that the Curvy Copter Plus or whatever is the "true" unbandaged version of the Curvy Copter, but this is really a matter of drawing the line _somewhere_. You could, in theory, just keep adding new cuts to unbandage it, until the puzzle becomes unmeasurable dust at ω iterations, but clearly the most principled (canonical!) choice is to not add any cuts at all: which is to say, the original Curvy Copter!)


----------



## ColorfulPockets (Sep 6, 2020)

New episode!







38: Have You Heard About the Rubik’s? — Layer By Layer — Overcast







overcast.fm


----------



## BenChristman1 (Oct 14, 2020)

I know that your obsession with Tillamook was a while ago (  ), but I saw an article about where Tillamook's money is going, and it's not to a cubing podcast.  https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/tillamook-farmers-help-farming-in-amerca

Also, when is the next episode coming out?


----------



## ColorfulPockets (Oct 19, 2020)

New episode! Oops, All U Moves






39: Oops, All U Moves — Layer By Layer — Overcast







overcast.fm


----------



## Kit Clement (Oct 19, 2020)

I should also mention for additional visibility: our alternative title guessing contest form can be found here:









Layer By Layer Alternative Title Contest


Every episode's title is something we said in that episode, meaning that many of our episodes had many proposed titles that didn't make the cut. See how many of the titles you can get correct! Each question will pose the alternative title as the question - you pick the correct episode from the...




docs.google.com





Hope you have fun trying to figure these out, and maybe go back and listen to some old episodes!


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 19, 2020)

have you made a podcast about the potential of methods like ZZ, LEOR and Petrus?


----------



## tx789 (Oct 19, 2020)

The world record holder for average wasn't at the comp with the with wr single. 


Also I have a comp in a few days. I have been to 31 in 10 years.



Eocross ZZ is basically a cfop variant (efop). I think some kids want to feel special but using bad methods not one else does. Then they can be unique or the fastest person using method x really easily.


----------



## BenChristman1 (Oct 25, 2020)

Spoiler: A slight rant about altering methods and method neutrality



I don't know much (actually anything) about ZZ, so I can't say much about that, but like Kit, I sometimes take a FreeFOP/Petrus approach to certain scrambles. For example, if i see a really easy 2x2x2 block in inspection, I will plan out that and then move on to finishing the cross, then doing the rest of the solve like normal. I will also occasionally insert cross-edges with MU or rU moves if there was an easy F2L pair that I had created and inserted earlier. In my opinion, I think this is still CFOP, just doing about it a different way. A lot of other people have stated it, but even the WR solve was technically done with Petrus. Yusheng Du made a 2x2x3, got an EO skip, solved F2L, and did a ZBLL. He obviously uses CFOP as his main method, but that solve just happened to be Petrus-like. He meant for it to be a CFOP solve, but it just ended up being Petrus. As Andrew was saying in the episode, even if you alter a method slightly in the middle of the solve, if you eventually change it back at the end, it really isn't changing it to a different method.

I think that a person can't really consider themself "method neutral" unless they: 1) get approximately the same averages with the 2+ methods they use, and 2) use the methods somewhat evenly. For example, I wouldn't consider you method neutral if you use CFOP 75% of your solves and Roux the other 25%. I think there are a couple people on the forums who are method neutral who may be able to give more insight on this, though. (@RadicalMacaroni?)





Spoiler: U Moves Only



CStimer has 1x1x2 scrambles as well.

*1.* (0.911)
*2.* (1.275)
*3.* 0.980
*4.* 1.017
*5.* 1.011
*Average:* 1.003





Spoiler: Among Us Cubing



I am playing on mobile with 2 impostors.


Spoiler: Attempt 1 - DNF (6)



Role: Crewmate

I got finished all of my tasks, went to security and went on cams then started solving cubes. I got killed while on cams, then kept solving. My body got reported, and one of the crewmates got voted out (so both impostors were still in the game), and eventually the impostors killed enough people and won.





Spoiler: Attempt 2 - DNF (8)



Role: Crewmate

I finished all of my tasks and went to security just like last time, except this time, the impostors won by sabatoging O2.





Spoiler: Attempt 3 - 13



Role: Crewmate

I finished all of my tasks except trash in case anybody accused me, then I went on cams to solve cubes, then with 5 people left, we tasked out and won, and I solved 13 cubes.





Spoiler: Attempt 4 - DNF (0)



Role: Crewmate

I did my first task (garbage in cafeteria) then got killed in weapons when I was heading down to navigation. I started doing my tasks, but then the imposters won the game in literally 2 minutes by sabatoging the reactor.





Spoiler: Attempt 5 DNF (4)



Role: Crewmate

3 people left right at the start (those lame little kids who leave if they're not impostor), then I got killed right away, tried to finish doing my tasks, but the impostors won right afterwards by getting kills.


----------



## RadicalMacaroni (Oct 25, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> I think there are a couple people on the forums who are method neutral who may be able to give more insight on this, though. (@RadicalMacaroni?)



I'm not method neutral, but I'm sub 8 with ZZ and sub 9 with Roux so I've tried it before. And I have to say that honestly, its probably not worth it except special solves where you see something super easy with a method you don't main (5 move eocross or FB + DR for example)


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## ProStar (Oct 25, 2020)

*sigh*

Time to sit down for about 48 hours straight and listen to every episode in a row so I can get 100% on the survey


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## ColorfulPockets (Nov 7, 2020)

ProStar said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Time to sit down for about 48 hours straight and listen to every episode in a row so I can get 100% on the survey



Muahahaha it’s working


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## TheSlykrCubr (Nov 7, 2020)

ColorfulPockets said:


> Muahahaha it’s working










btw hope you don't mind me saying fam, but worst judges ever is literally the funniest sh*t i've seen in cubing


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## Nir1213 (Nov 8, 2020)

ColorfulPockets said:


> Muahahaha it’s working


omg hes back lol


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## Mr. McCubing (Nov 8, 2020)

Kit Clement said:


> View attachment 11669​
> Andrew Nathenson and I have been doing a cubing podcast for a couple years now, so I figured I'd start a thread here too for when we post new episodes of the podcast! You're welcome to discuss episodes here, but we also have an official subreddit for discussing each episode linked below. You can click the logo above to see our Anchor page, which shows all the podcasting apps that we're listed on.
> 
> Latest: Episode 39 - Oops, All U Moves
> Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/layerbylayer/


Yay


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Nov 8, 2020)

Just now listening to the most recent episode of the podcast. I thought your discussion about ZZ method “purity” was really interesting, and I noticed that you also mentioned Roux in that discussion. 

From my personal experience as a Roux solver, there is pretty good consensus that you should do whatever is the most efficient. I think this may have something to do with Kian Mansour being a pretty clear leader in the Roux field for a while and actively encouraging people to play around with blocks and EO and LSE at the end of the solve. To my knowledge, there was never a cuber using ZZ of the same central prominence as Kian was to Roux, and as such the decentralization may have caused an air of rigidity among the solving styles with no one to push the method along.

Secondly, move count in Roux is almost divine. Especially at a higher level, the amount of moves you spend to complete a task on the cube is almost always more important than the ergonomics of it (unless the optimal solution is very awkward to solve). Thus, people are very willing to play around with different block orders and alg sets to get a better movecount as long as they can still execute it relatively quickly, making experimentation part of the game.

Thirdly, many of the more fringe methods (ZZ being at the top of those, then Petrus, then LEOR and others) are similar to more common methods like Roux and CFOP, so when someone decides to use one of these methods, their “method identity,” as you mentioned, is often very important to them and they don’t want to stray from the orthodox version of the method that they learned. I tend to be a little more freeform with blockbuilding in my Roux solves (again, because of the things I previously outlined) but many people who use other methods may not be so inclined.

I wanted to mention this because I think the discussion about “method culture” is really interesting and deserves more time, and I’d like to hear y’all dive into this some more!


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## abunickabhi (Nov 8, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> Spoiler: A slight rant about altering methods and method neutrality
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with your assumptions about method neutrality. For the next decade atleast, I do not expect speedcubers to become method neutral. Maybe after the competition gets crazy tough, becoming method neutrality can provide an edge.

Currently, I do 65% CFOP on 2H and 30% Roux, and 5% 3-style or some hybrid (2H CFOP global-10, 2H Roux global-10.5). In OH, it is 80% Roux and 20% CFOP (OH Roux global 17, OH CFOP global-19).
So, achieving the 50-50 split with both method is not ideal.


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## PapaSmurf (Nov 8, 2020)

Seeing as it's kinda a big theme of the episode, ZZ.


Spoiler: CFOP-y things that 'break' ZZ



The big thing (as identified) for ZZ is EO. That differentiates it most from CFOP and Roux, so doing EOCross is really just EOLine but blocks are made generally more ergonomic. Rotating for cases that are better with rotations (I don't think there are any for TH, but triple sexy from BR for OH is probably one) is still keeping EO and not 'breaking ZZ', it's just doing something in a more ergonomic way and if it's better, do it. Same for F moves. For example, F' R U R' U' R' F R (or inverse) is the best alg for the given case. There's no point delibrately restricting yourself to a subset of moves just for the sake of method purity, just as most CFOPers don't do OLL/PLL exclusively.





Spoiler: ZZ is fast



ZZ is faster in general with EOCross, but I agree that doing EOLine can sometimes be better, but there's a major difference between the DR of Roux and EOCross in ZZ. The fastest solvers (Simon K from Germany, RadMac from earlier on in this thread, me) all say that EOCross is better as the thing you do 95% of the time and that's because it is. On the other hand, Rouxers who are faster tend to say it could help, but don't do it exclusively. If we assume constant EOCross with ZBLL for most cases ie. not sune/anti (this ignores things like pseudoslotting, multislotting, OLS tricks and other things that can reduce movecount) you get a movecount of 50-55 which is lower than CFOP. You also have really good ergonomics. Switch EOCross out for EOLine and while you save maybe 5 moves, you probably add at least 2 regrips in plus more blindspots. So comparing ZZ with EOLine purely to CFOP will show that CFOP is better, but if you compare with EOCross you get 2 very similar and competitive methods. If you wanna see more, read this post to see more of my reasoning. Also ZZ has none of the bad F2L cases like edge flipped in slot, corner solved, so that's pretty good.





Spoiler: Andrew, don't look at this spoiler



Andrew, don't look at my signature.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Nov 17, 2020)

Who is "Jay" mentioned a few times in episode 38?


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## TheSlykrCubr (Nov 17, 2020)

EngiNerdBrian said:


> Who is "Jay" mentioned a few times in episode 38?



I think Jayden Mc'Neill


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## ProStar (Mar 1, 2021)

New episode! It's only been about 6 years!






40: Memo, Then Sleep for a Year — Layer By Layer — Overcast







overcast.fm






Kit & Andrew do be out here getting rekt


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## xyzzy (Mar 2, 2021)

Spoiler: learning (mathematics)



For some bizarre reason, in my younger years I did a lot of number crunching on paper, and that gave me a decent amount of "number sense" to work with. I made light work of most of the high school maths curriculum just cruising on my intuition; the exceptions were geometry (draw triangles and circles, chase angles, etc.) and integration because I didn't find those fun and so I hadn't practised much of those outside of school. I _still_ mostly cruised through an undergraduate curriculum with this strat, but things got pretty dicey near the end. Turns out you need to actually do things to get good at them!

I also used to dislike trigonometry (since it's geometry-adjacent), and I'm still not exactly hot on it, but I pretty much had to force myself through it to get to the actually fun stuff like Fourier transforms. (Protip for anyone struggling with trig: learn complex numbers and use Euler's formula e^ix = cos x + i sin x as much as you can. Stuff like the double-angle/half-angle formulae just drop out of that with very little work.)

Integration by parts is basically just the product rule for derivatives: write (fg)' = f' g + f g', then integrate both sides and transfer one term to the other side. Well, I know the intuition for it, but I was doing some integration by parts earlier (after I knew there was a new podcast ep, before I listened to it) and I still had to keep checking to not mess up the signs. True calculus struggles.





Spoiler: graph stuff



I've been following this very-long-running blog that mostly touches graph theory, algorithms, and related topics (including some of computational geometry), 11011110. Might be of interest to Andrew!

A Cayley graph is the graph you get by taking the group's elements as the vertex set, and drawing edges whenever there is a single "move" to go between two vertices. (You have to decide what count as legal moves ahead of time, of course.) Cayley graphs are relevant to cubing in that they describe how you move from one cube state to another: an "optimal solution" is just a shortest path on the graph; "god's number" is just the graph's diameter.

Naturally, if you draw more edges, shortest paths might get shorter but never longer, and that's why optimal solutions in STM are usually shorter than those in FTM, and god's number in STM is (believed to be) smaller than god's number in FTM.


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## ColorfulPockets (Mar 14, 2021)

NEW EPISODE
41: or/and 






41: or/and — Layer By Layer — Overcast







overcast.fm


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Mar 14, 2021)

Just want to let you folks know (I am aware this was from the previous episode) that ice cream cake is usually mostly ice cream. There may be a layer or two of cake-style cake, but for the most part, the whole point of ice cream cake is the ice cream! I strongly encourage you to try ice cream cake from a local ice cream shop (not from a big chain).

I am also aware that I live on the east coast, and that may have something to do with it.


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## Mo_A2244 (Mar 14, 2021)

ProStar said:


> New episode! It's only been about 6 years!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn't see this...


ColorfulPockets said:


> NEW EPISODE
> 41: or/and
> 
> 
> ...


or this... I'll be back.
runs to Google Podcasts


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## xyzzy (Mar 14, 2021)

Regarding the G5 timer and 4-pad mode:

The regulations currently have laxer requirements for a legal timer stop compared to timer starts (e.g. can't start with your palms, but can stop with your palms), and switching to 4-pad would basically make starts and stops symmetrical. Which is aesthetically pleasing, but maybe not an entirely good idea.

In comps I've been to, there was maybe one or two instances where the timer wasn't reset before I started inspecting; I don't practise with a timer at home, and I go to non-FMC-only comps only once a year, so this was a bit disorienting. (I didn't ask for extras; I think I noticed this either before inspecting or just before starting the solve (with plenty of inspection time to spare), so I just hit the reset button myself.) With the G5, having the timer accidentally be in 4-pad mode is likely to be even more disorienting. Competitors unfamiliar with the G5 might not know why they can't start the timer, and even competitors who are familiar would have to spend quite a few seconds pressing-and-holding the reset button to switch to 2-pad mode or to just use the timer in 4-pad mode and hope to remember to stop it with their thumbs too.

Looking at the WCA forums, there's been quite a few angry posts by Michał Halczuk in a thread about the G5. On one hand, I am extremely sympathetic to Michał's point of view; on the other hand, there are indeed legal risks if the WCA starts allowing non-(Speed Stacks) timers, and nobody really wants to take on that risk. Tear down IP law! (it's obvious that I'm a bit of an extremist on that front, isn't it)

---

Regarding WCA forums: I still don't understand the need for a real name policy there, but then again maybe I'm the weird one for wanting to be pseudonymous/anonymous. I guess people are less inclined to shitpost if it's irrevocably linked to their name, or something.


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## ColorfulPockets (Apr 26, 2021)

Guess who’s back!






42: The Game Show! Featuring Feliks Zemdegs and Jayden McNeill! — Layer By Layer — Overcast







overcast.fm


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## abunickabhi (Apr 27, 2021)

ColorfulPockets said:


> Guess who’s back!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yay another episode. We have to aussies featuring in this one, D' F2 R' M' F M F' R F2 D.


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## any name you wish (Nov 9, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> View attachment 11669​
> Andrew Nathenson and I have been doing a cubing podcast for a couple years now, so I figured I'd start a thread here too for when we post new episodes of the podcast! You're welcome to discuss episodes here, but we also have an official subreddit for discussing each episode linked below. You can click the logo above to see our Anchor page, which shows all the podcasting apps that we're listed on.
> 
> Latest: Episode 42 - The Game Show Featuring Feliks Zemdegs and Jayden McNeill!
> Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/layerbylayer/


When's the next episode? You have 13 world records to talk about!


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## White KB (Nov 9, 2021)

any name you wish said:


> When's the next episode? You have 13 world records to talk about!


I haven't gotten caught up to that, but I _have_ watched listened to the first 30 episodes, and now that you say it I realize they uploaded their last episode on April 26th. Maybe they have a hint as to explaining this hiatus in the episode audio.


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## any name you wish (Nov 9, 2021)

White KB said:


> I haven't gotten caught up to that, but I _have_ watched listened to the first 30 episodes, and now that you say it I realize they uploaded their last episode on April 26th. Maybe they have a hint as to explaining this hiatus in the episode audio.


1. What do you mean?
2. What's a hiatus?


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## White KB (Nov 9, 2021)

any name you wish said:


> 1. What do you mean?
> 2. What's a hiatus?


1. I mean if you listen to this episode, you might find a clue as to why they haven't uploaded for a while.
2. According to Google Dictionary, hiatus as a noun means "a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process." Typically a hiatus refers to a gap in a show or book series, e.g. if you just finished reading all the books in _The Inheritance Games_ (there are two out of three published so far) and are waiting for the third one to be published. If you particularly like a series, a hiatus can be a long, drawn-out experience.


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## any name you wish (Nov 9, 2021)

White KB said:


> 1. I mean if you listen to this episode, you might find a clue as to why they haven't uploaded for a while.
> 2. According to Google Dictionary, hiatus as a noun means "a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process." Typically a hiatus refers to a gap in a show or book series, e.g. if you just finished reading all the books in _The Inheritance Games_ (there are two out of three published so far) and are waiting for the third one to be published. If you particularly like a series, a hiatus can be a long, drawn-out experience.


I've listened to it five times. What's the clue?

But I'm not warmed up, so...


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## White KB (Nov 9, 2021)

any name you wish said:


> I've listened to it five times. What's the clue?
> 
> But I'm not warmed up, so...


Ah.
Well, if you've listened to it already, there might not be a clue. I just assumed you hadn't; my bad.


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## any name you wish (Nov 18, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> View attachment 11669​
> Andrew Nathenson and I have been doing a cubing podcast for a couple years now, so I figured I'd start a thread here too for when we post new episodes of the podcast! You're welcome to discuss episodes here, but we also have an official subreddit for discussing each episode linked below. You can click the logo above to see our Anchor page, which shows all the podcasting apps that we're listed on.
> 
> Latest: Episode 42 - The Game Show Featuring Feliks Zemdegs and Jayden McNeill!
> Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/layerbylayer/


Can you bring back reg of the day?


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## BenChristman1 (Dec 4, 2021)

I'm currently re-listening to all of the episodes, and I am currently on episode 14, where you talk about how cubers enjoy celebrating beating their own accomplishments, and other cubers do a great job of celebrating other people's personal accomplishments as well. Kit and Andrew were talking about the running community, and how running may or may not have that same atmosphere, so I figured that I would share a little bit.

I got done with my cross-country season a couple months ago, and I agree with Kit when he says that cross-country has more of a sense of celebrating personal achievements than track & field does, although at my school, both do a very good job. I have the same coach for CC as well as track, and she does an amazing job of creating an amazing team atmosphere, and celebrating everybody's accomplishments. The practice after a meet for CC or track, she reads a list of everybody's PRs, and it feels really good to have that recognition of your achievement.

As far as a sport overall, I think that track and field as well as swimming are very similar to cubing in that they have a large variety of events, and people often specialize in certain ones. I am not a swimmer, but for example, in track, I specialize in the 400, high jump, and triple jump. In cubing, you could compare that to specializing in 4x4, pyraminx, and skewb. The 400 is a short/middle distance event, similar to 4x4, and high jump and triple jump are field events that are often regarded as "side events," similar to how pyra, mega, skewb, square-1, and clock are considered side events in cubing. (Running blindfolded or in the fewest strides would be tough, though.  )

If any other runners have anything to add, I would love to hear it!


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## Running for cube (Nov 10, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> I'm currently re-listening to all of the episodes, and I am currently on episode 14, where you talk about how cubers enjoy celebrating beating their own accomplishments, and other cubers do a great job of celebrating other people's personal accomplishments as well. Kit and Andrew were talking about the running community, and how running may or may not have that same atmosphere, so I figured that I would share a little bit.
> 
> I got done with my cross-country season a couple months ago, and I agree with Kit when he says that cross-country has more of a sense of celebrating personal achievements than track & field does, although at my school, both do a very good job. I have the same coach for CC as well as track, and she does an amazing job of creating an amazing team atmosphere, and celebrating everybody's accomplishments. The practice after a meet for CC or track, she reads a list of everybody's PRs, and it feels really good to have that recognition of your achievement.
> 
> ...


I agree there is a lot of similarities between cubing and running are pretty similar, from long distance to sprinting to jumping and stuff which are like the fmc of cubing. Also I really need more episodes for kit and Andrew to talk in my ear again


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## Running for cube (Nov 13, 2022)

@Kit Clement do you guys plan on posting again bc I can see andrews still alive bc of his other podcast. Did he quit cubing?


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## Kit Clement (Nov 14, 2022)

Running for cube said:


> @Kit Clement do you guys plan on posting again bc I can see andrews still alive bc of his other podcast. Did he quit cubing?


We both still cube a bit, but a lot less than we did pre-COVID. I don't want to declare the podcast dead or anything, but we also don't have any plans to record anything in the near future.


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## NONOGamer12 (Nov 14, 2022)

darn


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## Running for cube (Nov 14, 2022)

Ok, but you guys ever do post again you have your dedicated listeners.


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## freshcuber.de (Nov 15, 2022)

Kit Clement said:


> I don't want to declare the podcast dead or anything, but we also don't have any plans to record anything in the near future.



The same here with my Freshcuber Podcast (in german). So sad that all cubing podcasts are idle at the moment.


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## Running for cube (Nov 15, 2022)

Yeah I just looked In Apple Podcasts and all of them stopped in 2020 or 2021 or never started


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## Zain_A24 (Nov 16, 2022)

What platforms do y'all use to listen to podcasts on?


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## Running for cube (Nov 16, 2022)

Apple


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## ProStar (Nov 16, 2022)

Zain_A24 said:


> What platforms do y'all use to listen to podcasts on?



Overcast is imo the best platform for podcasts


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## Running for cube (Nov 18, 2022)

In episode 40 that I was just listening to you guys said that you didn’t post for 4 months because you wanted to space out for topics to arise. I mean it’s been a year and max set a billion world records and tymon and him keep battling and comps started again so there is content.


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## DuckubingCuber347 (Nov 18, 2022)

Running for cube said:


> In episode 40 that I was just listening to you guys said that you didn’t post for 4 months because you wanted to space out for topics to arise. I mean it’s been a year and max set a billion world records and tymon and him keep battling and comps started again so there is content.


Once you become older your hobbies, interests, and availability change, believe it or not. If they don't have the interest to create more content, we should respect the decision instead of bugging them constantly. Kit and Andrew are under no obligation to continue the podcast, they've already done a great job with the hour of content they've put out. Life happens and life changes. What they once did they may no longer wish to do, or perhaps have not the time.

There are plenty of other cubing podcasts out there (my personal recommendation is the Methodical Cubing podcast) and there are plenty of other topics you can listen to too! If you aren't satisfied with the current cubing podcast episodes, consider exploring other interests. My three biggest interests are "Weird Al" Yankovic, Origami, and cubing. I've been drifting away from cubing and the only cubing podcast I really enjoy is the Methodical Cubing because I love theory and methods. I've yet to explore Origami podcasts as I've just recently come back from a two-year hiatus which leaves with the final, and my biggest interest, Weird Al. There are a ton of great Weird Al podcasts with tons of episodes. Best of all, a lot of them are active which means you get a constant stream of new content.

If you still insist on only listening to cubing podcasts, consider making your own, encourage others to start their own, and whatever you do, don't listen to the Woaj podcast.


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## Running for cube (Nov 18, 2022)

That’s fair I’ll listen to the other one and I also like wierd Al. If they want to make another they can but I’ll stop asking.


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## NONOGamer12 (Nov 19, 2022)

Can you please do more this is a great podcast and I want more also tymon and max will give you 24 hours worth of content


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## brickinapresent (Nov 19, 2022)

seems cool, i may listen to it if its still active


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## ProStar (Nov 19, 2022)

brickinapresent said:


> seems cool, i may listen to it if its still active



They haven't uploaded in over a year and it will very possibly never come back, but it's still a great podcast and I recommend listening; there's 40-50 hours worth of episodes out


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## Zain_A24 (Nov 20, 2022)

NONOGamer12 said:


> Can you please do more this is a great podcast and I want more also tymon and max will give you 24 hours worth of content


Our chat with Cubing Encoded was over an hour but we were limited by storage space but I can definitely see someone having a 2-3 hour talk with a cuber.


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## Running for cube (Dec 11, 2022)

Episode 26: you guys are surprised tommy cherry is in top ten 3 bld nowadays it’s like. Well look at him now.


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## Running for cube (Dec 11, 2022)

Also dec 15 is Stanley Chapel day!


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## Futurechamp77 (Jan 1, 2023)

Hi everyone


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## abunickabhi (Jan 1, 2023)

Running for cube said:


> Episode 26: you guys are surprised tommy cherry is in top ten 3 bld nowadays it’s like. Well look at him now.


Tommy Cherry is going to break the clock WR soon too !


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## Running for cube (Jan 1, 2023)

theinternet.com//;r/layerbylayer;shrubreddit.com


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## Running for cube (Jan 1, 2023)

alexiscubing said:


> I watched the first one yesterday and it was really good!


Did you watch the bar sliding across the screen? That’s the only visual podcast aspect.


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## Running for cube (Jan 3, 2023)

Hey @Kit Clement did you ever get another giker cube?


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## Futurechamp77 (Jan 3, 2023)

Tilamook


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## Cuber Score (Jan 3, 2023)

Me and my friend love your podcast, glad you made a thread!


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## Running for cube (Jan 3, 2023)

Futurechamp77 said:


> Tilamook


Dodgecubing


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## Futurechamp77 (Jan 3, 2023)

Lol dodge cubing should be the first official team wca event fr.


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## Cuberstache (Jan 3, 2023)

I actually played a game of dodgecube at a comp and it was awesome


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## Futurechamp77 (Jan 3, 2023)

Nice


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## Cuber987 (Jan 3, 2023)

Cuberstache said:


> I actually played a game of dodgecube at a comp and it was awesome


I want to try it out!


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## Futurechamp77 (Jan 3, 2023)

Same here


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## Running for cube (Wednesday at 12:52 AM)

@Kit Clement are you finally full Oll yet?


----------

