# How many methods can you sub-20 with?



## Zarxrax (Mar 24, 2011)

I know I will never be a world-class cuber getting sub-10 times or anything, but one of my main goals has always been to just achieve sub-20 times consistently.

As I've been getting close to that goal recently, I'm starting to think about what I'll do when I actually get there. And I think that what I'll do is start training on a different method, and try to get that one to sub-20 as well 

For those of you who already practice with several different methods, how many of them can you sub-20?

Are there any methods that would be particularly more difficult to sub-20 than others?


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## a small kitten (Mar 24, 2011)

Just my main, which is ZZ.


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## Tim Major (Mar 24, 2011)

What are you counting as different methods? I can sub 20 with a lot of methods, but if they can have no or very little relation (CFOP and CF), then not many. I'm sub 20 with Petrus, CFOP, many varieties of CFOP, and a few other methods.
Do ZZ and CFOP count as different? If so do Cross, First 3 F2L pairs, forced OLL skip, PLL count as different? Or COLL?


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## RyanReese09 (Mar 24, 2011)

ZZ, CFOP, uh...don't really know any other methods..I could learn Roux I guess one day..and try sub20 with that. I'm pretty lazy though.


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## Andreaillest (Mar 24, 2011)

One, CFOP. I haven't really dwelled into other methods, but I can try to be sub 20 with Petrus. Whenever that will be.


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## qqwref (Mar 24, 2011)

It's hard to define what a method is, but... Fridrich, ZZ, Roux, Petrus, Triangular Francisco, Columns First, and possibly some others.


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## JyH (Mar 24, 2011)

Not completely sub-20 yet. Using CFOP. I really want to learn Roux, just rather learn it at a competition in person. I'm not interested in any other methods.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 24, 2011)

Sub 20 with 0 methods

But can solve with the following (sub) methods 
LBL
Keyhole
CFOP with 2LL
Some edge control stuff
Petrus
Heise (still need to take a closer look at some of the more advanced steps)
ZZ
Corners First (Ortega, then fill in edges traditional CF style)
Edges First (no algs, fully intuitive)
Human Thistlethwaite
Old Pochmann
Not a method as such but used in FMC: NISS, pseudo-blocks and Insertions

Hmm… I guess it is time I start looking into Roux 
But from the list above you may have noticed that I am not really into algs and Roux has so many of them ;-)


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## Bapao (Mar 24, 2011)

Wow...the content on this website generally inspires and motivates me but on some days, it just plain intimidates me.


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## Kirjava (Mar 24, 2011)

Human Kociemba and 4D are hard to sub-20 with.


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## Godmil (Mar 24, 2011)

what's 4D?


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## Edward (Mar 24, 2011)

Just CFOP
Used to be sub 20 with Petrus and Roux, but now I average like 21 with them. I'm getting back down to sub 2 with roux though.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 24, 2011)

4D cube: http://en.lmgtfy.com/?q=4D+cube

Hope to add this to my method list within a few weeks, still working (on and off) on finding my own method.


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## Kirjava (Mar 24, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> 4D cube: http://en.lmgtfy.com/?q=4D+cube
> 
> Hope to add this to my method list within a few weeks, still working (on and off) on finding my own method.


 
I like that you used LMGTFY to say that it was easy to find out what it is, but linked to the wrong thing altogether.

4D is an ill-defined 3x3x3 method.


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## Godmil (Mar 24, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> 4D cube: http://en.lmgtfy.com/?q=4D+cube



That suggests the 4D cube is a thing, rather than a method.

EDIT: Thanks Kirjava.


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## Anonymous (Mar 24, 2011)

ZZ and Fridrich.

To someone's earlier question, ZZ is undoubtedly a different method from Fridrich. Even if you use EOCross (which you shouldn't), the EO step changes the rest of the solve way too much for it to be considered a variation on Fridrich.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 24, 2011)

4Doh! :fp


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## Specs112 (Mar 24, 2011)

0 for me. Almost 1... very close with CFOP.



qqwref said:


> Triangular Francisco



What is this I don't even.


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## Anonymous (Mar 24, 2011)

Specs112 said:


> What is this I don't even.



You don't even... know what it is?


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## Specs112 (Mar 24, 2011)

Anonymous said:


> You don't even... know what it is?


 
What. How does that work, and why would anyone do it?

ಠ_ಠ


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## irontwig (Mar 24, 2011)

Are we talking about single or average here?


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 24, 2011)

Specs112 said:


> What. How does that work, and why would anyone do it?
> 
> ಠ_ಠ


 
Because it's a lot of fun. And looks cool. Not to mention it's basically braindead...


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## nathanajah (Mar 24, 2011)

Let's see... I can only sub 20 with ZZ and Fridrich.


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## uberCuber (Mar 25, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Are we talking about single or average here?


 
Because of the "one of my main goals has always been to just achieve sub-20 times consistently" part of his post, I would assume he means average.

I personally have only ever done sub-20 averages with CFOP, mainly because I haven't put real work into other methods.


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## NeedReality (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm sub-20 with Roux and CFOP/Fridrich. I don't practice the latter though, so I'm just barely sub-20 with it nowadays. I'm aiming for a sub-15 average with Roux and then I'll be happy - I'm not too interested in learning a ton of methods for speed.


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## eastamazonantidote (Mar 25, 2011)

ZZ at mid-18, VH/ZB at high 17, and Fridrich at low 19. Yes they are very similar and all variations of Fridrich but I have a very different mindset when using each one. Fridrich is likely that high because I suck at OLL recognition from all those solves with LLEO.

And because I experiment with methods all the time I'm very close with Roux at 21.xx (once I get used to the last step I will be) and Petrus at 22.xx (once I find the 2x2x3 fast enough I will be).


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## Tall5001 (Mar 25, 2011)

Hey can someone explain Human Kociemba since it was brought up please!


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## Anonymous (Mar 28, 2011)

eastamazonantidote said:


> ZZ at mid-18, VH/ZB at high 17, and Fridrich at low 19. Yes they are very similar and all variations of Fridrich but I have a very different mindset when using each one. Fridrich is likely that high because I suck at OLL recognition from all those solves with LLEO.
> 
> And because I experiment with methods all the time I'm very close with Roux at 21.xx (once I get used to the last step I will be) and Petrus at 22.xx (once I find the 2x2x3 fast enough I will be).



I don't think ZZ qualifies as a variation of Fridrich at all, do you?

But anyway, two: ZZ and Fridrich. 15-16.5 with ZZ, 19 with Fridrich.


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## pistelli (Mar 30, 2011)

I have heard of Human Thislethwaite but not Human Kociemba. Links please? Sounds neat, but Human Thislethwaite was hard enough to understand(For me, I was able to do a couple solves but there are only two or so tutorials and they are both pretty confusing). Pseudoprogrammer on youtube did a 27 second solve with it though, so it obviously has potential.


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## JonnyWhoopes (Mar 30, 2011)

CFOP, FreeFOP, Petrus (sometimes), Keyhole (singles only), Roux. I think that's about it. Some are average, and some are singles only.


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## Erzz (Mar 30, 2011)

I'd like to see a multiple-choice poll for this with methods (ZZ, Fridrich, Roux, Petrus, TF, etc).
I can get sub-20 singles, but not averages for any methods. So I voted 0.


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## StachuK1992 (Mar 30, 2011)

CFOP, Petrus, ZZ
sub25 with Roux, Salvia, and random variants of all of the above.


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## riffz (Mar 30, 2011)

Fridrich and ZZ. If you mean single then I guess you could throw in Roux as well.


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## Yes We Can! (Mar 30, 2011)

CFOP, Roux and LBL (with 4LLL that is)


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## Daniel Wu (Mar 30, 2011)

I've gotten sub 20 averages of 12 with CFOP, Roux, Petrus, and ZZ. Normally I average around 14 with CFOP, 18-19 with Roux, 21 with Petrus, and also 21 with ZZ.


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## Vinny (Mar 30, 2011)

Just CFOP... I'm working on Roux though, average mid 30s with that and 17's to 19's with CFOP.


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## waffle=ijm (Mar 30, 2011)

Roux, CFOP, Petrus.


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## Nestor (Mar 30, 2011)

Occasionally I do sub20" solves with CFOP (1 out of 15 or so). The best I've done with Petrus is 26".


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## uberCuber (Mar 30, 2011)

I posted earlier that CFOP is the only method that I can do sub-20 averages with, but since I am seeing people also list methods that they can just get sub-20 singles with, here are my other sub-20 single methods:

Petrus
ZZ
LBL with 4LLL
VH
Roux


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