# 5BLD's And PandaCuber's Roux Tutorial



## PandaCuber (Jan 4, 2012)

Learn Roux?​

We are announcing our site in order to get feedback directly from the cubers.

Our site is not 100% done, but I am constantly updating the site and making video's to improve the learners experience. 

We would really appreciate constructive criticism, mainly on our way of explanation. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As of this minute, you will find on our page:

-An introduction to the Roux method
-Written and video explanation of each sub-step of Roux.
-Miscellaneous page where we have a 'Sub-12 Guide' and some Team BLD Codes we are working on.
-And a Chat/Shoutbox page.

I plan on expanding the website, in order to get as much information on the Roux Method.

Thanks -PandaCuber.

To visit our website, you can click where it says "Learn Roux?" Or right here, 
http://rouxtorial.webs.com/


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## jrb (Jan 4, 2012)

I think the website is really cool! Second block page helped me a lot.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 4, 2012)

jrb said:


> I think the website is really cool! Second block page helped me a lot.


 
I think 5BLD has a video on the second block..I should put it on that page. Thanks,


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## Hovair (Jan 4, 2012)

I checked out the site and it was great. You and 5bld make a great roux team.


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## zipzap321 (Jan 4, 2012)

Tried to view some of the videos but it says they are private and I cannot view them.

Other than that I like the site.


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## jrb (Jan 5, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> I think 5BLD has a video on the second block..I should put it on that page. Thanks,



Awesome, I'll go check that out! Thanks


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## PandaCuber (Jan 5, 2012)

jrb said:


> Awesome, I'll go check that out! Thanks



Youtube is acting up today, sorry, Give it time.



Hovair said:


> I checked out the site and it was great. You and 5bld make a great roux team.



Thanks




zipzap321 said:


> Tried to view some of the videos but it says they are private and I cannot view them.
> 
> Other than that I like the site.


 
Okay, ill check it out.


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## tasguitar7 (Jan 5, 2012)

Great site, one question though, on the cmll page it says that you can do a diagonal swap when all of the corners are oriented with a T-Perm or a J-Perm, I do not understand how this is possible considered both of these algs swap adjacent corners. I have been using Y-Perm for this case. Can you please explain how to use T or J Perm in this case?


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## PandaCuber (Jan 5, 2012)

tasguitar7 said:


> Great site, one question though, on the cmll page it says that you can do a diagonal swap when all of the corners are oriented with a T-Perm or a J-Perm, I do not understand how this is possible considered both of these algs swap adjacent corners. I have been using Y-Perm for this case. Can you please explain how to use T or J Perm in this case?



Oops I totally forgot about the Y-perm :/ , Yes, use Y-perm.

But on the side note, Im actually making a 2lookCMLL chart thats much more beginner friendly.


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## tasguitar7 (Jan 5, 2012)

Alright cool, and also as a heads up the link to the D-H CMLL chart currently links to the A-C.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 5, 2012)

tasguitar7 said:


> Alright cool, and also as a heads up the link to the D-H CMLL chart currently links to the A-C.


 
Thanks, Fixed now


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## 5BLD (Jan 5, 2012)

zipzap321 said:


> Tried to view some of the videos but it says they are private and I cannot view them.
> 
> Other than that I like the site.


 
That was my fault, sorry. I deleted a lot of my videos a while ago. 
Ill make new ones now that im more experienced.


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## LarsN (Jan 5, 2012)

Really nice site 

I'm at the 15 sec mark (official 14.96 avg). I would be really interested in an articel/video/discussion about LSE shortcuts.


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## CuberMan (Jan 5, 2012)

Interesting... will learn roux if I have spare time...
EDIT: has just learned from the website, and I've found out that roux is easy! thanks for the tutorial...


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## Bapao (Jan 5, 2012)

Nice. This actually motivated me to give it a try. Block building is pretty straight forward but it takes me far too long to find pieces. It would take me ages to get fast at this method even though it is more fun.

I laughed at myself when I noticed that during block building, I was frantically searching for pieces in the top and middle layers only. I had this real "duh!" moment when I finally found them


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## chardison1980 (Jan 5, 2012)

i have the same problem locating pieces, i know its only a 3x3x3 but dang i swear the pieces seem to hide from me


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## PandaCuber (Jan 5, 2012)

Bapao said:


> Nice. This actually motivated me to give it a try. Block building is pretty straight forward but it takes me far too long to find pieces. It would take me ages to get fast at this method even though it is more fun.
> 
> I laughed at myself when I noticed that during block building, I was frantically searching for pieces in the top and middle layers only. I had this real "duh!" moment when I finally found them


 
Dont worry about your time, if you practice roux, your times will drop very fast(happened to me).

Yeah might help if you look at the M slice...LOL.


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## aronpm (Jan 5, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Dont worry about your time, if you practice roux, your times will drop very fast(happened to me).
> 
> Yeah might help if you look at the M slice...LOL.



I think he meant the D face... half of the M slice edges are on the top layer. "top and middle layer only"


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## PandaCuber (Jan 5, 2012)

aronpm said:


> I think he meant the D face... half of the M slice edges are on the top layer. "top and middle layer only"


 
No, because the M slice is constantly 'rotating' sooo its like, you cant just focus on the D face part of the M slice. Understand?


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## Bapao (Jan 5, 2012)

aronpm said:


> I think he meant the D face... half of the M slice edges are on the top layer. "top and middle layer only"


 
Exactly. I'm too used to the D edges being correctly orientated after doing cross so I instinctively ignore the pieces in those positions.

I'll try learning the full method just for fun though and I'll see where it takes me. I've spent too much time on my current method to abandon it at this stage.


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## Sarahjdes (Jan 17, 2012)

Great website  I really like the Sub-12 how-to, it's sometimes hard to know where to start when it comes to lowering your times!

Good job!


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## PandaCuber (Jan 17, 2012)

Sarahjdes said:


> Great website  I really like the Sub-12 how-to, it's sometimes hard to know where to start when it comes to lowering your times!
> 
> Good job!


 
Thanks!


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## kelseymckenna (Jan 25, 2012)

Hey guys! (I started the "Naming of Last Steps" thread and I said that I would maybe give Roux a go. I started using it yesterday and with using 2 look corners and generally really bad look ahead I'm getting around 27 seconds which makes me think that I should continue with the method. One thing that I think you should really add in is optimal solutions for pairs for the second block. Like the way this site does 
http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Step_2.html
Except clearer and really only for difficult or special cases. Because that is the part that I'm really having problems with. That and placing the UR and UL edges but that's just slow recognition which has been lowered by about 5 seconds since yesterday 
I will keep practising Roux and hopefully learn full CMLL  I'm not sure if you guys are still working on the site currently but it looks great and I'm sure it will be even better with a few more additions 
There were a few things I had to work out myself for the F2B and the last step of LSE and so they are probably not optimal. 
Also, do you want to try and get names for the last step of LSE? 
As far as I know there a are 3/4 main last step cases (The very last alg case) so we could maybe get names for them because at the moment I remembering this from Waffle's names like "Fuuu" and "Double FUuu" or something lol
Thanks Again Guys


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## PandaCuber (Jan 25, 2012)

> I'm getting around 27 seconds which makes me think that I should continue with the method


Thats actually really good! Once you hit sub 30, blocks and lse seem to get easier (happened for me)



> One thing that I think you should really add in is optimal solutions for pairs for the second block. Like the way this site does
> http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Step_2.html
> Except clearer and really only for difficult or special cases. Because that is the part that I'm really having problems with. That and placing the UR and UL edges but that's just slow recognition which has been lowered by about 5 seconds since yesterday


I will put that on our siteThanks




> Also, do you want to try and get names for the last step of LSE?



Yeah of course! We would LOVE names that, especially if they are funny and easy to remember. 


> As far as I know there a are 3/4 main last step cases (The very last alg case) so we could maybe get names for them because at the moment I remembering this from Waffle's names like "Fuuu" and "Double FUuu" or something lol
> Thanks Again Guys


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## kelseymckenna (Jan 29, 2012)

Hey! Well, I think Dots is a good name and is already well known, so it's taken care of.
I think a good syntax for names of cases would be "Name + Noun". This is the same syntax for many juggling patterns such as the "Mill's Mess" or "Rubenstein's Revenge" etc. Also, alliteration would be nice for names.
We could maybe sort out a few names on this thread, so the "U2 M2 U2" case, could be called eg. "Devil's Dash". You know what I mean 
Anyway, it would be pretty cool to get some memorable names here, but preferably not names directly related to one of us because then people would fight over what they should be called. We could maybe name them after mythical beings or something like that. And really bad cases could be named after evil dictators, so a case could be called, "Adolf's Alg". Maybe that's too controversial but maybe something like that


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## AbstractAlg (Feb 15, 2012)

Didn't know where to post it, so...
( M' U' M' U ) x3

Switches UD and FB centers. Yeah there is M E2 M' E2, but that's kinda tricky to do, and this alg can be done sub1 without an ease. 
Hope you like it.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 15, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> Didn't know where to post it, so...
> ( M' U' M' U ) x3
> 
> Switches UD and FB centers. Yeah there is M E2 M' E2, but that's kinda tricky to do, and this alg can be done sub1 without an ease.
> Hope you like it.


 
This is a really fun alg. 
But its long. Dots and be subbed 1 too  

I didnt see kelseymckennas post, Very clever names. Will add them to the site if you dont mind.


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## 5BLD (Feb 15, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> Didn't know where to post it, so...
> ( M' U' M' U ) x3
> 
> Switches UD and FB centers. Yeah there is M E2 M' E2, but that's kinda tricky to do, and this alg can be done sub1 without an ease.
> Hope you like it.


 
NO DONT REPLACE MY BELOVED E2ME2M'


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## PandaCuber (Feb 15, 2012)

5BLD said:


> NO DONT REPLACE MY BELOVED E2ME2M'


 
I thought moo was your beloved...


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## 5BLD (Feb 15, 2012)

NO PARITY IS MY BELOVED


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## PandaCuber (Feb 15, 2012)

5BLD said:


> NO PARITY IS MY BELOVED


 
Moo is your Mistress.. <3


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## AbstractAlg (Feb 15, 2012)

Mistress, wifes, beloved ones...

Do whatever you like, this is just a suggestion. I personally use my alg when doing Roux, but when solving switched center on something like Axis cube I also prefer ME2M'E2, because it's very simple and short.
Add it to site or whatever, maybe someone would like my alg more.  (sweet dreams?..)

p. s. i hate the equator slice moves. ^__^
p. s. s. cfop < roux < commutators (bld)
p. s. s. s. cheers!


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## mormaii2 (Feb 16, 2012)

I think this is a great idea to help people interested in learning roux, I know the beginner method so i was thinking of going with F2L but seeing as roux is more intuitve and it has a majority in m-slices then i'll definitely check it out!


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## PandaCuber (Feb 16, 2012)

mormaii2 said:


> I think this is a great idea to help people interested in learning roux, I know the beginner method so i was thinking of going with F2L but seeing as roux is more intuitve and it has a majority in m-slices then i'll definitely check it out!


 
Dont forget to check out Petrus. If youre into block building.
But if you like M slices, deff roux.


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## jms_gears1 (Feb 16, 2012)

idk if anyones mentioned it yet. But you STILL havnt fixed the sidebar navigation issue


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## PandaCuber (Feb 16, 2012)

jms_gears1 said:


> idk if anyones mentioned it yet. But you STILL havnt fixed the sidebar navigation issue


 
Yeah that is 5BLDs job, but he hasnt touched the site in months.


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## AbstractAlg (Feb 16, 2012)

I opened your site for the first time, now.
First, the cube images are hand drawn? Use visual cube - http://cube.crider.co.uk/visualcube.php, it's much prettier.

Second, why some free web builder, don't you have someone in team that could make you the site?


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## PandaCuber (Feb 16, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> I opened your site for the first time, now.
> First, the cube images are hand drawn? Use visual cube - http://cube.crider.co.uk/visualcube.php, it's much prettier.
> 
> Second, why some free web builder, don't you have someone in team that could make you the site?


 
I dont know anybody. I need to ask around I guess.


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## AbstractAlg (Feb 16, 2012)

Would be best to work on Wordpress.
No ads, a lot of themes, plugins, tagging, even forum.

Even for the beginners, wordpress shouldn't be that hard, if you need some help anyway, you can even ask me, I am experienced in web-programming, and I posses many skills, HTML, CSS, JS (jQuery, webGL), XML, php and MySQL. So, good luck.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 16, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> Would be best to work on Wordpress.
> No ads, a lot of themes, plugins, tagging, even forum.
> 
> Even for the beginners, wordpress shouldn't be that hard, if you need some help anyway, you can even ask me, I am experienced in web-programming, and I posses many skills, HTML, CSS, JS (jQuery, webGL), XML, php and MySQL. So, good luck.


 
Oh wow thats cool. Yeah Ill play with that today and maybe we can get a nicer website.


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## 5BLD (Feb 16, 2012)

Let's get on skype and make a new one together then  
Ill be online in 15 mins, you can create the site with either my or your email... I also know how to program a bit.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 16, 2012)

Hows my efficiency?

R' U2 R U R2 r2 U R' U r2 U R r U2 r U2 R' r U2 R2 U2 R U' R U'

r U' r2 U2 R' 

R' U' R U' M2 R'U R 

alg.garron

U' r2 U R' U R' U' r' U2 R' r' U' R U2 R' U2 r R2 U' r2 U2 r R U' R'

U2 R U R F' U2 F r U r'

R' U2 R MU M'U2 R' U R

alg.garron

r U' R U2 r U2 R' U' r U' r U r' U' R2 r' U' r U' R U' R U' R r' 

U M U' M2 R U R2' 

r' U R 

alg.garron


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## PandaCuber (Feb 24, 2012)

Maybe you guys will like this picture:



Spoiler


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## PandaCuber (Mar 2, 2012)

Heres a little Walkthrough solve and Lookahead tips. Trying to post more videos to help you guys reach sub 20. Anything you guys would like to see from me?


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## 5BLD (Apr 7, 2012)

Little bump for those who haven't seen this yet. Mind you, I haven't touched the site in months.

I got a little something too that you might find helpful.


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## PandaCuber (Apr 7, 2012)

Slower? Lol


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## Jaycee (Apr 8, 2012)

5BLD Y U NO UPDATE SIG WITH SUB-6 SINGLE


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## Googlrr (Apr 18, 2012)

I have questions for some of you fast roux users. 

I'm currently trying to become somewhat color neutral (roux-tral?) because I hate seeing nice blocks on other colors that I know I cant make good use of.

Currently I solve Red-orange on l and r blocks and just choose whichever one looks better. I always solve with white on bottom. What do you guys think is more worthwhile, doing blue-green blocks or using yellow on bottom too. Both options would open two more blocks to me, but I was just curious as to what other people use.

Thanks


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## 5BLD (Apr 18, 2012)

Yellow bottom would be easier to transition to with similar benefits to the other I think. But there's a part of me telling you to go do both as I believe the way I do it is a good compromise between full CN and non- i.e. White/Yellow on D, any other colour on L.

Perhaps if you have difficulty switching to green/blue on L then you may like to go straight for fixed L/R colours- any colour but red/orange on D that is. That has 8 blocks also which is the same number as they way I do it.


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## Googlrr (Apr 18, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Yellow bottom would be easier to transition to with similar benefits to the other I think. But there's a part of me telling you to go do both as I believe the way I do it is a good compromise between full CN and non- i.e. White/Yellow on D, any other colour on L.
> 
> Perhaps if you have difficulty switching to green/blue on L then you may like to go straight for fixed L/R colours- any colour but red/orange on D that is. That has 8 blocks also which is the same number as they way I do it.


 
Thanks for the reply! I've been trying out blue-green blocks. Its definitely different but I've gotten a few sub20s with it which is about my average. Biggest issue I have is I keep putting my blocks in all stupid because I'm used to inserting the red portion as opposed to the blue. I'm gonna try to stick to white on bottom for now until I get this whole blue green thing down.


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## Sarahjdes (May 17, 2012)

Calling all Rouxers! I recently started solving a 4x4 with the reduction method, and since I use Roux for my 3x3, I figured I'd use the same for the 4x4. I have a little problem with oll parity. When I get to the point where I have to solve the bad edges, I sometimes find myself with too many cases I don't exist, because one edge is flipped. Is there a way to know which one is flipped so I can position my bad edges in order to solve them? Right now I just play around until I get the right one, but it's not very efficient. Thanks!


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## JensRenders (May 17, 2012)

Sarahjdes said:


> Calling all Rouxers! I recently started solving a 4x4 with the reduction method, and since I use Roux for my 3x3, I figured I'd use the same for the 4x4. I have a little problem with oll parity. When I get to the point where I have to solve the bad edges, I sometimes find myself with too many cases I don't exist, because one edge is flipped. Is there a way to know which one is flipped so I can position my bad edges in order to solve them? Right now I just play around until I get the right one, but it's not very efficient. Thanks!


 
It doenst matter wich one is flipped! just flip any edge and it is possible again  done!


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## PandaCuber (May 17, 2012)

Sarahjdes said:


> Calling all Rouxers! I recently started solving a 4x4 with the reduction method, and since I use Roux for my 3x3, I figured I'd use the same for the 4x4. I have a little problem with oll parity. When I get to the point where I have to solve the bad edges, I sometimes find myself with too many cases I don't exist, because one edge is flipped. Is there a way to know which one is flipped so I can position my bad edges in order to solve them? Right now I just play around until I get the right one, but it's not very efficient. Thanks!


 
What I do is solve F2B, then Solve Oll Parity, then CMLL, so on. 

Once you finish Blocks, look at the edges. If you see a case you dont normally seen on 3x3, you have parity. 
Because if you do CMLL and THEN parity, you mess up the the Corners. Get it?


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## Sarahjdes (May 17, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> What I do is solve F2B, then Solve Oll Parity, then CMLL, so on.
> 
> Once you finish Blocks, look at the edges. If you see a case you dont normally seen on 3x3, you have parity.
> Because if you do CMLL and THEN parity, you mess up the the Corners. Get it?



Yeah, that's what I figured out after I posted this. I had to do them twice. So yes, everything makes sense. 

Any good guides about parity you would recommend?



JensRenders said:


> It doenst matter wich one is flipped! just flip any edge and it is possible again  done!


Great, thanks!


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## MostEd (May 17, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Because if you do CMLL and THEN parity, you mess up the the Corners. Get it?


 
Inner slice parity? problems 

its slower tho


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## PandaCuber (May 17, 2012)

Sarahjdes said:


> Any good guides about parity you would recommend?


 
This is a great 4x4 tutorial in general. But has longer Edge parity alg.

I use r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 r' U2 r'


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## Godmil (May 17, 2012)

I like the reverse of that. Waffo has some videos up of him doing it: slow and fast


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## emolover (May 27, 2012)

I have a question for all y'all senior Roux users. How do you get faster at L6E? I once read a 5BLD post where he says he looks ahead during it, I do not really get that.

Also should I learn CMLL or COLL with my best average of 12 being a 22.xx? I will still be using CFOP for big cubes and OH but I there is significantly less moves for CMLL I might learn both. 

Also I am happy to have boarded the Roux train as this is my second day of using it.

Edit: Has anyone generated algs for Roux winter variation? If not I will start that tomorrow.


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## Cool Frog (May 27, 2012)

Winter variation for roux tis a silly thing.

Yeah, You can lookahead (Kinda necessary) Practice to force things for LSE.

Learn BOTH since they can both come in handy. If you decide to only learn one, It really depends on how much you plan on doing big cubes/OH though.


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## MostEd (May 27, 2012)

COLL can help in an oriented LSE


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## 5BLD (May 27, 2012)

Yah I tried WV roux a while ago, didn't benefit at all. For looking ahead for LSE- I predict EO (and location of LR edges but this isn't awfully necessary) during CMLL. Then find (if I haven't already) LR edges during EO. As I do LR edges I predict 4c. That to me is what looking ahead is.

I know both CMLL and COLL. IMO you should start with COLL to make EO prediction easy.


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## SpeedSolve (May 27, 2012)

When I wake up in the morning, I'm going to take this tutorial, memorize it, and get an average lower than 20 seconds.


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## emolover (May 31, 2012)

How do I improve my inspection for the first block? I usually can not seem to get the whole thing memorized in 15 seconds. I can usually get the first 1x2x2 down and along with another edge but from there I just noob it. I too use to looking for only 4 of the same pieces and those were a lot easier to finger trick, so how do you finger trick or at least speed up the execution of the first block. 

Also would being non-colorneutral improve these things? 

BTW I average about 21 or 22 now.


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## waffle=ijm (May 31, 2012)

ya 1x2x2 is good enough. but whole first block is always the way to go. 

The easiest way to make the first block is to turn faster, but it's not always guaranteed whereas smoother execution usually works especially with less moves. Personally, I just just turn faster and make blocks with fingertricks that I know are fast, more moves but whatever, it's fast. Usually contradictory to "Roux" thinking but who cares.


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## PandaCuber (May 31, 2012)

Color neutral helps for the square. It gives you more options. 
I had trouble too getting the inspection under 15, but i started playing with bigger cubes where theres no inspection and just noob it from there.


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## Cool Frog (May 31, 2012)

When you become colour neutral you get lazy at blocks (Easy blocks but lazy).
When you get lazy at blocks you don't know how to deal with scrambles that have no 1x1x2 blocks built.
When you don't know how to deal with scrambles that have no 1x1x2 block built you get paranoid about your shitty blocks.
When you get paranoid about your shitty blocks you spend weeks working on making your blocks better.
When you spend weeks on making your blocks better you get lazy again.
When you get lazy again you don't know how to get better at first block (Seeing the pattern)?

When you don't know how to get better at first blocks you raeg.


Moral of the story, If you go colour neutral know how to build blocks that are missing 1x1x2


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## 5BLD (May 31, 2012)

emolover said:


> How do I improve my inspection for the first block? I usually can not seem to get the whole thing memorized in 15 seconds. I can usually get the first 1x2x2 down and along with another edge but from there I just noob it. I too use to looking for only 4 of the same pieces and those were a lot easier to finger trick, so how do you finger trick or at least speed up the execution of the first block.
> 
> Also would being non-colorneutral improve these things?
> 
> BTW I average about 21 or 22 now.


 
For inspection there's no real way to practice it but time inspection for the whole first block, then once you stop the timer do it blindfolded. I usually inspect the whole FB then solve while tracking some pieces I found in inspection...

Actually I think it's unecessary what I do; 1x2x2 in inspection should be enough, then track the last pair. Mind you- you can always solve the first block in other ways, I do lots of Uw and sometimes even E moves in the first block.

For execution, just plan ahead as you go and turn faster. For me, my first block turnspeed is always significantly lower than the other steps- I make it up in movecount. For you, maybe you should look for easier to execute (although longer) solutions as waffle said. Maybe you'll find it easier to turn fast. And look ahead.


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## MalusDB (May 31, 2012)

Quickly scanned the posts and didnt notice this being posted:

"Note: It's much better to do it on the left in my opinion because the next step is very RU intensive.* If you're left handed you might prefer doing it on the left though*. Funnily enough I'm left handed but still do it on the left. However, you may prefer to do it like the diagram on the right. The diagram on the left is the way most people, I included, do it."

Should say " If you're left handed you might prefer doing it on the *right* though", right?
Sorry if I'm being an *****. I like forming it on the right hand side and getting some inspection on the front side, then d2 to change it to the left, that way I kind of get to see the whole cube while using more or less exclusively fingertrick friendly movements on my right hand. Then again I am **** at roux, so not exactly saying it works lol.


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## PandaCuber (May 31, 2012)

MalusDB said:


> Quickly scanned the posts and didnt notice this being posted:
> 
> "Note: It's much better to do it on the left in my opinion because the next step is very RU intensive.* If you're left handed you might prefer doing it on the left though*. Funnily enough I'm left handed but still do it on the left. However, you may prefer to do it like the diagram on the right. The diagram on the left is the way most people, I included, do it."
> 
> ...


 
If your left hand is "faster", then do your first block on the right. You need speed for the second block which would be on the left. 
There are some people that are left handed that still do SB on right. Idk ask them why.


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## 5BLD (May 31, 2012)

I am one of them who is a lefty and does SB on right. I do it because it's how I learnt; simple as that.

Also, DID I JUST SEE A d2 IN A ROUX SOLVE?


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## Georgeanderre (May 31, 2012)

5BLD said:


> I am one of them who is a lefty and does SB on right. I do it because it's how I learnt; simple as that.


 
Likewise, I have tried SB on left but it just isn't as fast because its like learning a new method all over again... having said that I may try and do it that way for a while, I'm slow enough for it to not affect me that much =]

EDIT:

+ if it can be done both ways just as fast then maybe you can be even more optimal in the future... seeing a FB case that works better on the right than the left may be an advantage?

Sorry if that sounds ridiculous...

2nd EDIT:

Adds around 5 seconds to my solves, from 18-22 up to 23-26, but I reckon with some practice I can get them to be around the same...

3rd EDIT: 

might as well edit, saves a double post. Just got a sub 20 with FB on right and SB on left... so I'm going to practice FB on right for a while and see where it takes me =)

4th EDIT + after-thoughts:

It also gives me a reason to practice Roux again, since I have been meaning to learn CMLL for about 6 months =/ ... might actually get round to learning it =o

+ I have to think A LOT more than I usually would, so I like it for now =)



Spoiler



Ao5: 26.54 - (23.46), (30.62), 24.13, 27.30, 28.20
Terrible times but I like it because I have to think rather than just mindlessly turn the cube



Feeling an awful lot like when I tried K4 with white on right, strange but a lot more challenging and as thus a lot more fun for my brain to work with.


----------



## gogozerg (Jun 1, 2012)

5BLD said:


> I am one of them who is a lefty and does SB on right. I do it because it's how I learnt; simple as that.



Anyone doing the second 1x2x3 on top?


----------



## Kirjava (Jun 1, 2012)

You still advocate that?


----------



## gogozerg (Jun 1, 2012)

Just curious.


----------



## Ickathu (Jun 1, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> Anyone doing the second 1x2x3 on top?


 
I just tried that...  it's weird...


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 1, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> Anyone doing the second 1x2x3 on top?


 
I remember a girl a while back on this forum that did it on the back.


----------



## Alcatraz (Jun 1, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> Anyone doing the second 1x2x3 on top?


 I think JonnyWhoopes does........


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 1, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> Anyone doing the second 1x2x3 on top?



I have done, its similar to COL CFOP.. just not mindless =p


----------



## JonnyWhoopes (Jun 1, 2012)

Alcatraz said:


> I think JonnyWhoopes does........


 
Nope, nice try. I do that with ZZ.


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 1, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> Anyone doing the second 1x2x3 on top?


 
How would you get around M moves which are now E? I would do it if I could get round it.


----------



## jms_gears1 (Jun 1, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> Just curious.


 
When I solve, I try and do the FB on the right or left side

EDIT: Im stupid and completely misunderstood what he meant .-.


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 1, 2012)

5BLD (or Panda) do you have a decent OH diagonal corner swap PLL that disregards M slice...?

I use the Y perm at the moment and it kills the wrist to perform it because of stupid F turns -.-


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 1, 2012)

RUR'U'L2URU'R'U2L2UL2UL2 --a Y perm
R2Dr'UrD'R2d'r'F'r --an OLLCP


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 1, 2012)

5BLD said:


> RUR'U'L2URU'R'U2L2UL2UL2 --a Y perm


 
That one is perfect, so much nicer to perform... even with 2 hands =o

EDIT : Added to cubing pages CMLL and PLL alternative


----------



## Ickenicke (Jun 1, 2012)

I am trying to do as good blockbuilding as I can. (Hard when using CFOP in one year and never practised blockbuilding)
I am doing a 1x2x2 block and then inserting a pair. (most often)
How many moves should I average for the 1x2x2 block? What is the maximum of moves that I should use?


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 1, 2012)

Your first block should be at the very very most 11 moves in total, allowing for more ergonomic solutions.


----------



## gogozerg (Jun 1, 2012)

Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it?

Sequences here are based on E:
http://speedcubing.com/corners_first_middle_edges.html


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 1, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it?
> 
> Sequences here are based on E:
> http://speedcubing.com/corners_first_middle_edges.html


 
Is this how you do blocks? If so, may we see a video?


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 1, 2012)

I don't think Gilles does blocks on UD normally.
Also, that's a corners first website, lots of cool cases there which I may start using for LSE, but he was just demonstrating how E can be useful I think. That's not how you solve your SB..

Gilles, can you make a video on how you make your blocks on U/D? I'm curious because my way may be different.


----------



## Athefre (Jun 2, 2012)

http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Step_2.html

A little down the page.


----------



## gogozerg (Jun 2, 2012)

5BLD said:


> he was just demonstrating how E can be useful I think


I just wanted to show that for some people, using E could be as intuitive as M.
I don't know if it can be as fast. Nowadays, nobody does it this way.

For the 2nd block, even if you don't use E, R/U/u can be fast.

No video sorry, I'm not fast. Never tried to be.


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 2, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> No video sorry, I'm not fast. Never tried to be.


 
Its not about speed. We just wanna see you cube. Didnt matter if you average 30 seconds.


----------



## Ickenicke (Jun 2, 2012)

I wonder if I should complete learning COLL for Roux. (I know just a few cases) or should I learn good CMLL algs?
If I learn COLL what algs should I learn then?


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 2, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I wonder if I should complete learning COLL for Roux. (I know just a few cases) or should I learn good CMLL algs?
> If I learn COLL what algs should I learn then?


 
CMLL. Not COLL. Because CMLL is meant for Roux.


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 2, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I wonder if I should complete learning COLL for Roux. (I know just a few cases) or should I learn good CMLL algs?
> If I learn COLL what algs should I learn then?


 
1. Both! 2. All of them!
COLL is slightly easier for EO prediction tho so you may want to start with it. Tho CMLL is shorter


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 2, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I wonder if I should complete learning COLL for Roux. (I know just a few cases) or should I learn good CMLL algs?
> If I learn COLL what algs should I learn then?


 
Depends what methods you use for other cubes really..

Personally I will learn CLL before anything Roux specific because I use K4 on the 4x4 and the M slice needs to be retained, however ELL doesn't matter in the slightest so I can mess with that as much as I like

As a side note, I added a CLL page to my site this afternoon and have started learning CLL in the hope that it can drop both my 3x3 and 4x4 times to sub 20 and sub 60 respectively =)


----------



## Ickenicke (Jun 3, 2012)

I am having problem to improve my LSE. I am solving both fast and slow so I can solve without pauses. I am still averaging like 8 seconds.
I don't know what is wrong. It feels that I turn pretty fast and that I don't get many pasues at all. I am still so slow. Anything that I could do or practise?
I think I know pretty much every case for all 3 steps and how it works, but I guess my transitions isn't that good. How do I practise them?


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 3, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I am having problem to improve my LSE. I am solving both fast and slow so I can solve without pauses. I am still averaging like 8 seconds.
> I don't know what is wrong. It feels that I turn pretty fast and that I don't get many pasues at all. I am still so slow. Anything that I could do or practise?
> I think I know pretty much every case for all 3 steps and how it works, but I guess my transitions isn't that good. How do I practise them?


 
Go slow and dont pause at all. Work on predicting the LR case after EO.


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 3, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I am having problem to improve my LSE. I am solving both fast and slow so I can solve without pauses. I am still averaging like 8 seconds.
> I don't know what is wrong. It feels that I turn pretty fast and that I don't get many pasues at all. I am still so slow. Anything that I could do or practise?
> I think I know pretty much every case for all 3 steps and how it works, but I guess my transitions isn't that good. How do I practise them?


 
Metronome met ro nom


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 4, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> LSE : I am still averaging like 8 seconds.


 
Slow turning, and learn some EP tricks, M' U' M' can _sometimes_ be more beneficial than M' U M' ... or even M' U' M / M' U M as these can save you an unnecessary M2 

PS. *whispers* L6E ... just don't tell 5BLD 

-------------------------

5BLD, and Panda if you know them, which order did you learn the CxLL sets... or just learn the easy one first and hard ones last?

I already knew the H set a while back and I am currently working my way through the U and T sets. One a day if its a new case and 2 a day if it's just readjusting my recognition or the case has a mirror / inverse... I prefer doing an LU mirror to an RU case because all I have to do is flip my execution and not learn another algorithm + LU turns feel much nicer than RU 

... also which stickers do you look at for the Sune and AntiSune sets? there doesn't seem to be any obvious bars on my images, although I may just be blind to them at the moment 

if you need, there is a link to my images in signature.. just click the CLL or CMLL page, if nothing it shows you which orientation I use for the sets 

Not that its at all relevant to the recognition, because they are identical, but I'm learning CLL as opposed to CMLL... even though the algs I have are pretty much the same anyway. Only 1 of my CMLLs even affected the M slice... and only by M2 :confused:


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 4, 2012)

I learnt DUSAsHTPi


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 4, 2012)

I prefer Waffles site when it comes to learning CMLL. Its so easy. Thats how i recognize. 
I learned them H G B C E F D 
That way you go from easy short algs, to longer ones.


----------



## mullemeckmannen (Jun 4, 2012)

hey, 5bld can you redo first block tut on youtube?


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 4, 2012)

Yeah, will get round to it soon.


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 5, 2012)

5BLD said:


> I learnt DUSAsHTPi



I'm assuming your D is what I call L... through a process of elimination :confused:

Anywho I've learnt all the H cases, all but 1 U case, 3 T's, 2 pi's and 2 L's... give me 2 weeks and I should have the lot, or be working on As and S recognition :tu

-------------------------

In other news, this happened this morning - 17.12, (16.39), 20.03, (22.15), 19.83 ... 18.99 Ao5

Slightly shocked at the time because I've never been sub 20 and I haven't even picked up a 3x3 in weeks, it must be all the 4x4 I've been doing.

But after seeing this, I think I finally have a reason to learn CLL


----------



## Ickathu (Jun 5, 2012)

Figure I can post this here too.



Ickathu said:


> I have LSE ao12. For some reason I had a "Low Light Boost" option checked on my recording software that made all the colors duller shades than they are for real.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 5, 2012)

That cube looks real tight... not good for Moo spamming

Ideally both index fingers need to be free, M2 with right ring then left ring or left ring and middle... this is what I do and I'm rarely sup 4 for the smexi MU stage


----------



## Ickathu (Jun 5, 2012)

Georgeanderre said:


> That cube looks real tight... not good for Moo spamming
> 
> Ideally both index fingers need to be free, M2 with right ring then left ring or left ring and middle... this is what I do and I'm rarely sup 4 for the smexi MU stage



I'll switch to my Lingyun. I prefer the feel of the guhong, but it is a little slow I guess. Not really slow, but it takes significant (relative term) force to do Ms. The Right Left M2s are weird  I'll keep trying though. Do you grip then with your Middle and Thumb on BL/BR and FL/FR?


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 5, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> I'll switch to my Lingyun. I prefer the feel of the guhong, but it is a little slow I guess. Not really slow, but it takes significant (relative term) force to do Ms. The Right Left M2s are weird  I'll keep trying though. Do you grip then with your Middle and Thumb on BL/BR and FL/FR?



I grip with thumbs on FR and FL edges respectively and with middle fingers on BR and BL edges respectively.

I used to grip like you are in the video but this meant I couldn't do U moves easily... this made me slower, since changing my grip I have dropped at least 5 seconds on my times... although this may also be down to me getting very near to sub 1 on 4x4 (I use K4 so have a similar grip for the ELL)

This frees up my index fingers for U and U' flicks and U2 flicks if they are needed.. pulling from behind and then pushing.
It also frees up both ring fingers for M', M and M2 if I use both fingers..
It also frees up both pinkys but I don't use them 

But to execute 'parity' I do drop my middle finger from the right in favour of my index just to make it easier to execute..


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 5, 2012)

The way you hold your cube doesnt really matter. Its how you cube. 

Mr. Ickathu, you need to slow down. Speed = Pauses = Slower times; Slow = No Pauses = Faster times. 

Here are some useful links:
Walkthrough Solve and Lookahead Tips 
4b To 4c Transition 
Last Six Edges orientation tutorial


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 6, 2012)

Finished learning my 2nd CLL set this afternoon... going to start work on the Sune set and just mirror them onto the As set tonight and tomorrow.

Hoping to have learnt full CLL by the end of June, then I can start on faster recognition and hopefully get consistent sub 20 Roux and _a lot more_ Sub 60 K4 solves 

Also working on L6E transition... I'm sub 5 already but I want sub 4  Mr Algorithm can't be bad for the longer EO cases


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 6, 2012)

For longer ones try to influence LR edges at least if you don't already.

Tomorrow I will try to make some walkthrough solves... if they are wanted. I havent much time tho.


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 7, 2012)

Imma attempt to go CN again. Hows the TUT going?


----------



## Qert31 (Jun 7, 2012)

....
I have everything else except for LSE
I tried watching 5BLD's videos... but they go too fast ._.
When I tried slowing it down too... well that made it worse because everything sounded disorted.
Brusinque's videos aren't complete due to a screw-up of youtube.
GG.


----------



## Cool Frog (Jun 7, 2012)

Georgeanderre said:


> Finished learning my 2nd CLL set this afternoon... going to start work on the Sune set and just mirror them onto the As set tonight and tomorrow.
> 
> Hoping to have learnt full CLL by the end of June, then I can start on faster recognition and hopefully get consistent sub 20 Roux and _a lot more_ Sub 60 K4 solves
> 
> Also working on L6E transition... I'm sub 5 already but I want sub 4  Mr Algorithm can't be bad for the longer EO cases



Race to Full CLL?

I plan on Learning the rest of OLLCP (75 cases left) And would love to race!


----------



## Ickathu (Jun 7, 2012)

What's the difference between COLL and OLLCP? Is OLLCP a subset of COLL?


----------



## JonnyWhoopes (Jun 7, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> What's the difference between COLL and OLLCP? Is OLLCP a subset of COLL?



COLL is a subset of OLLCP where all the edges are oriented. Or, in simpler terms, OLLCP orients all pieces while also solving the corners.


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 7, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> Race to Full CLL?
> 
> I plan on Learning the rest of OLLCP (75 cases left) And would love to race!



Nah, I learn at my own rate.

But thanks for the offer anyway


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 7, 2012)

Qert31 said:


> ....
> I have everything else except for LSE
> I tried watching 5BLD's videos... but they go too fast ._.
> When I tried slowing it down too... well that made it worse because everything sounded disorted.
> ...



Would you like me to make another?


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 7, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Would you like me to make another?



I would like another one as well, please  ... not because I need a tutorial, just to see someone else's perspective on it :tu

-------------------------



PandaCuber said:


> Imma attempt to go CN again. Hows the TUT going?



CN Roux is fairly easy, for blocks anyway, though I have found adapting to CN L6E is nearly impossible for me because of my colour-blindness


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 7, 2012)

what exactly do you guys want? walkthrough? tips? tutorial?


----------



## Ickenicke (Jun 7, 2012)

I want a 1-look fb tutorial that goes a little bit deeper and shows more than just a few examples.


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 7, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I want a 1-look fb tutorial that goes a little bit deeper and shows more than just a few examples.



Be specific. You want to see the logic behind making the First Block?


----------



## Ickenicke (Jun 7, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Be specific. You want to see the logic behind making the First Block?



More how to track pieces. I can easily do 1x2x2 and also sometimes track the 2 last pieces. But at most scrambles that is too hard for me.


----------



## Ickathu (Jun 7, 2012)

I like walkthrough solves. They always help me see things that I might not otherwise notice. 2nd block tips (just in general - my SB is pretty bad) would be good too. I feel like my second block is too CFOP-y. 

Specific question:
Better way to solve this second block case:
Set-up: R2 U R' U R U2 R2

I always solve it R2 U2 R' U' R U' R2 because that's how I'm used to doing it as F2L. I need a better way, because I'm sure that I can get something better without the M slice restrictions.


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 7, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> Better way to solve this second block case:
> Set-up: R2 U R' U R U2 R2



M' U' M U R U R2' F R F'

Thats how I would do it.
But then again, im not an efficient solver.


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 7, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> what exactly do you guys want? walkthrough? tips? tutorial?



Second block basics... M pairing and influencing CLL
L6E... your perspective on it

-------------------------



Ickathu said:


> Set-up: R2 U R' U R U2 R2



How I might solve that; r' U' r U R U R' U/U2 R U R'


----------



## gogozerg (Jun 7, 2012)

U2 M' r U' r' U2 r U r'

Thats how I would do it.
But then again, im not a fast solver.



PandaCuber said:


> M' U' M U R U R2' F R F'


If you're not afraid of using F, there's a much better sequence: M F' U' F r U r'.


----------



## Ickenicke (Jun 7, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> U2 M' r U' r' U2 r U r'



Really nice!


----------



## Kirjava (Jun 7, 2012)

how do i get better at second block

plz help


----------



## Ickathu (Jun 7, 2012)

gogozerg said:


> U2 M' r U' r' U2 r U r'
> 
> Thats how I would do it.
> But then again, im not a fast solver.



That's awesome!! It's easily finger-trickable too!


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 7, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> how do i get better at second block
> 
> plz help



Track first SB square pieces in FB. Solve square while tracking last pair (turn moar slows) then solve last pair quickly


----------



## NoobyCuby (Jun 8, 2012)

Can you please make it so the link can be right-click-new-tabbed? ^^


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 8, 2012)

It can already be done on my computer...


----------



## Ickenicke (Jun 10, 2012)

Tips for blocks?


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 10, 2012)

Forgot to post this here:


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 12, 2012)

Any requests to put on the site? (RouxTorial)

We are going to start updating it!


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 13, 2012)

Peoplz, I made another site. 
RouxDatabase.webs.com

Right now it doesnt have much, but im currently putting in algs and after that Ill work on some LSE stuff. 
Whats do you guys think!?


----------



## Cheese11 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm learning some HTML and so I'm putting a site together. It will be complete with a Rouxtorial. (I might also add in a Matt's Block Roux tut to **** off Alex)


----------



## Noahaha (Jun 13, 2012)

Add a Petrus tutorial.


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 13, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> Add a Petrus tutorial.



Why Petrus?


----------



## Noahaha (Jun 13, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Why Petrus?



It's the best method ever.


----------



## JonnyWhoopes (Jun 13, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> It's the best method ever.



Sure, why not take a website dedicated to the Roux method, and put Petrus on there.


----------



## Noahaha (Jun 13, 2012)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> Sure, why not take a website dedicated to the Roux method, and put Petrus on there.



Lol. Hope you weren't taking me seriously .


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 13, 2012)

Ive updated the Intro-FirstBlock-SecondBlock pages. 
Tell me what you think!


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 13, 2012)

Great stuff! I need to add stuff.... mind PMing me the pass to rouxdatabase account too please?


----------



## tasguitar7 (Jun 14, 2012)

I've been finally working on 1-look CMLL and I have no idea how to recognize the permutation case quickly when the corners aren't oriented. Do you have a system for recognition?


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 14, 2012)

tasguitar7 said:


> I've been finally working on 1-look CMLL and I have no idea how to recognize the permutation case quickly when the corners aren't oriented. Do you have a system for recognition?



Bars. 
I use waffles method.


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 14, 2012)

tasguitar7 said:


> I've been finally working on 1-look CMLL and I have no idea how to recognize the permutation case quickly when the corners aren't oriented. Do you have a system for recognition?



Look at same or opposite colours and make up your own recog method


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 17, 2012)

Guys, guys GUYS you don't need to turn fast


----------



## Ickenicke (Jun 17, 2012)

Cheatz.


----------



## o2 (Jun 17, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Guys, guys GUYS you don't need to turn fast



Amazing. Its cool that you can do that

Hope I can do it in the future


----------



## AbstractAlg (Jun 19, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Guys, guys GUYS you don't need to turn fast



amazing. 
just needed inspiration.

I decided today to switch completely to Roux after 3 years of cfop. 0_0 feels GREAT!


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 19, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> amazing.
> just needed inspiration.
> 
> I decided today to switch completely to Roux after 3 years of cfop. 0_0 feels GREAT!



 YAY


----------



## AbstractAlg (Jun 19, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> YAY



Is there some nice place where I could seek for some nice insertations, there are some cases that give me a headache for 2nd block and I refuse to rotate the cube but I lose a lot of time trying to find something nice and short but usually fail at that? So 2nd block tips and tricks stuff.


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 19, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> Is there some nice place where I could seek for some nice insertations, there are some cases that give me a headache for 2nd block and I refuse to rotate the cube but I lose a lot of time trying to find something nice and short but usually fail at that? So 2nd block tips and tricks stuff.



Our page, with examples 
Mr. Roux page, if you wanna read.


----------



## AbstractAlg (Jun 19, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Our page, with examples
> Mr. Roux page, if you wanna read.



Thank you, mylord. 
Also, will lse recognition come with the time?
What are your time splits for sub13 solves?


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 19, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> Thank you, mylord.
> Also, will lse recognition come with the time?
> What are your time splits for sub13 solves?



of course. soon youll, be skipping steps and what not. 

Sub 15 guide by 5BLD 
And one by waffle 

13 solve breakdown
F2B/CMLL/LSE
7/2/3
or
6/3/4


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 19, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> Thank you, mylord.
> Also, will lse recognition come with the time?
> What are your time splits for sub13 solves?



Mine is like 4.5 1.5 2.5 = 8.5

so for a 12.5 sec avg that goes to... roughly 7 2 3.5


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 19, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> of course. soon youll, be skipping steps and what not.
> 
> *13* solve breakdown
> F2B/CMLL/LSE
> ...



7 + 2 + 3 = 12 ... correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## PandaCuber (Jun 19, 2012)

Georgeanderre said:


> 7 + 2 + 3 = 12 ... correct me if I'm wrong



More or less, whatever im not sub 13 lol.


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 19, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> More or less, whatever im not sub 13 lol.



Simple addition ... irrelevant to cubing me thinks


----------



## ThtDarnNeighbor (Jun 19, 2012)

i solve the second block by making an edge then two pairs (f2l)

helps


----------



## waffle=ijm (Jun 20, 2012)

ThtDarnNeighbor said:


> i solve the second block by making an edge then two pairs (f2l)
> 
> helps



not really. in fact it doesn't help. it prevents you from learning new and efficient ways of doing blocks.


----------



## AbstractAlg (Jun 20, 2012)

my time splits: *14-3-5*

what should I improve? LOLOL 

first block feels kinda awkward to me, dunno why exactly, and my 2nd block look-ahead, simply, it exist does not. 

Btw, I picked naming-cubes-thngy from waffle and now I play with my Fedora all the time. 

EDIT: I hate when bottom color of one corner from second block faces up, it reminds me so much on cfop, which I hate. 

EDIT2:

Average of 5: 19.50
1. (15.36) 
2. 17.47 
3. 21.70 
4. 19.34 
5. (22.17)


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 20, 2012)

Blocks need work


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 20, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> I picked naming-cubes-thngy from waffle and now I play with my Fedora all the time.



I do the same but only because 6 people at College all have ZhanChis ... and as you could guess, they are all exactly the same :confused: so as a group we named them all, they are Fred, Alex, Joey, Matty, Jolene and 1 other that I can't remember  

When anyone wants a cube it's easier to say a name than try to describe the cube in terms of how chipped stickers are, whether or not it has anchors or which cap has tipex under


----------



## ThtDarnNeighbor (Jun 20, 2012)

waffle=ijm said:


> not really. in fact it doesn't help. it prevents you from learning new and efficient ways of doing blocks.



ik i was saying help me
how can i pull away from that

i dont understand how you can solve the second block with two pieces, then one then two


----------



## Georgeanderre (Jun 21, 2012)

ThtDarnNeighbor said:


> i dont understand how you can solve the second block with two pieces, then one then two



F2L pair at the bottom (RDB+RD), M pair the middle edge (RD) then finish with the last F2L pair (RDF+RF) ... I don't do this at the moment but I should probably start doing so


----------



## ThtDarnNeighbor (Jun 25, 2012)

Georgeanderre said:


> M pair the middle edge (RD)



what?


----------



## 5BLD (Jun 25, 2012)

R2U'M2UR2 etc.
But ew. I think that is worse than doing DR first or even than doing S moves (or rotating and M if its awkward) like I did in this video:





You really don't want to do it with 1x1x3 first or any ways which end with inserting single pieces. 

The way I do it is certainly not the best, but although appears pretty terrible it doesnt waste many/any moves. I find DR edge in inspection then track it as I track two random pieces of a pair. I make/insert the pair as I insert the edge then if not done already insert the pair. Then last pair.

If you wanna start with 1x2x2 imo you should start it with an edge that is already/like 2 moves away from solved. Ofc if theres an easy pair go for it but if you're stuck for which one is blindingly easier (which you shouldn't be) go for inserting an edge while making or preserving a pair.


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## CubeRoots (Jun 25, 2012)

I'm around 25 seconds now with Roux . I think with a month or two of practice I will be better at it than ZZ.

I've read though, that permuting L & R during EO is something that is quite easy to do. Can anyone describe roughly how I would go about doing that?


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## PandaCuber (Jun 25, 2012)

CubeRoots said:


> I'm around 25 seconds now with Roux . I think with a month or two of practice I will be better at it than ZZ.
> 
> I've read though, that permuting L & R during EO is something that is quite easy to do. Can anyone describe roughly how I would go about doing that?



Scramble: U M2 U' M U2 M2 U' M2 U' M' U2 M U M' U' M U2 M' U2 M' U2 M U2 M U
Setting up case: M' U2 M' U M U' M2 U' y2

As you can see LR edges are orange and red. there we have moo and in order to orient, the answer is <M>.
Now alll you gotta do is insert LR edges in the correct location. <U' M2>
Place edge to corresponding center<U>
Re-orient MCenters <M'> 
Solve <U2 M2 U2> 

YAY

view at alg.garron


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## Cool Frog (Jun 25, 2012)

Yep started improving (After like forever being stuck)

Second block lookahead just magically happened...
Still have some things That I want to learn (By hand) soon.

Quick unmatching centers recognition.
4C (Magically figured out that UB/UF don't move when solving UL/UR (Could probably one look like all of EO LSE)


Lastly finding fast ways to do first block (Because sometimes it might be short but not fast)


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## 5BLD (Jun 25, 2012)

CubeRoots said:


> I'm around 25 seconds now with Roux . I think with a month or two of practice I will be better at it than ZZ.
> 
> I've read though, that permuting L & R during EO is something that is quite easy to do. Can anyone describe roughly how I would go about doing that?



You can do stuff like panda said- very interesting stuff with 'free centres'. Also, when you orient, and you do <M><U><M> to flip stuff, try doing say U instead of U'. Like here's scrambles and what I'd do.

Scramb: M2 U M' U' M' U M2 U M U' M' U M U' M U2 M' U2 M U2 M U M' U M2

Solve: U2MUM' UM'U2M'U M'U2M'U2
Comment: this is just a little trick which you should know AFTER EO...

Scram: M2 U2 M2 U2 M U' M U' M2 U M' U M' U2 M U' M U M' U' M U2 M U' M 

Solve: UMU'MU'M'UM' U'M2U' M2U2M'U2M'
Comment: Aha! This 2-flip LR edges case is cool too. Know it. Love it.

If u want more tell me..


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## conn9 (Jun 26, 2012)

Thanks for the tutorial. I got bored of fridrich, so started roux. I'm only averaging 1 min 30, half an hour after starting, but its so fun!
Edit: Make that 45 seconds!


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## PandaCuber (Jun 26, 2012)

conn9 said:


> Thanks for the tutorial. I got bored of fridrich, so started roux. I'm only averaging 1 min 30, half an hour after starting, but its so fun!



Keep it up!


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## ThtDarnNeighbor (Jun 26, 2012)

hmm i learned last weekend and im like 35-40 secs
with cfop im sub 20 (been doin for like 6 months)


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 10, 2012)

(17.31), (13.62), 15.01, 16.17, 14.82 = *15.33 ao5*

17.56, 17.31, (13.62), 15.01, 16.17, 14.82, 18.16, 19.56, (20.27), 18.20, 19.39, 18.67 = *17.49 ao12*

OMG OMG OMG!!! Roux!!


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## arcio1 (Jul 10, 2012)

Nice tutorial, I'm switching to Roux! 
With CFOP I'm sub 23 after 5 months, but still I want to switch  I began yesterday and now I'm about 45 seconds  I think I will record myself and ask about tips


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 10, 2012)

good luck! roux is way more fun than cfop.


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## arcio1 (Jul 10, 2012)

Yes, I can see it already 
I noticed that sometimes CFOP is useful, because sometimes I get PLL case on last layer.


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## mati1242 (Jul 10, 2012)

The PLL step is part of Fridrich method and it usually occur unless you get lucky and get a PLL skip.
You proably mean "get a PLL skip on last layer"


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## PandaCuber (Jul 10, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> (17.31), (13.62), 15.01, 16.17, 14.82 = *15.33 ao5*
> 
> 17.56, 17.31, (13.62), 15.01, 16.17, 14.82, 18.16, 19.56, (20.27), 18.20, 19.39, 18.67 = *17.49 ao12*
> 
> OMG OMG OMG!!! Roux!!



Wow, how long have you been with roux?


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## arcio1 (Jul 10, 2012)

mati1242, I mean that sometimes after orienting last six edges one thing that I have to do to solve the cube is PLL


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 10, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Wow, how long have you been with roux?



Month and a half?

I have turning speed after 3 years of CFOPing, but blocks are big problem, I got used to f2l pairs that much, that I always build second block with medium edge + 2 f2l pairs, which is bad. Blocks have so much potential to be extremely fast, cmll are algs (6/42 so far) and lse look-ahead is still awful.

My cfop pb is 7.85, and roux pb - 13.62, so yeah... practice needed.


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## cubecraze1 (Jul 10, 2012)

First Block P1
If you're left handed you might prefer doing it on the *left *though. Funnily enough I'm left handed but still do it on the left.
Don't you mean right?


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## 5BLD (Jul 10, 2012)

Second block is purely RrMU
Edit: yeah we mean right where you bolded. I think.
Edit2: check the context, iirc it says if youre right handed it's easier to do on Left but if youre L handed you may still prefe to do it on L. Idk. I can't see website on my phone. 

If it's wrong we'll get it changed soon.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 11, 2012)

cubecraze1 said:


> First Block P1
> If you're left handed you might prefer doing it on the *left *though. Funnily enough I'm left handed but still do it on the left.
> Don't you mean right?



Fixed.


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 11, 2012)

17.44, (15.94), 17.01, (21.54), 16.05 = 16.83

Today I had many sub20, which is great.

Is there some place where's bunch of first block example solves, I hate the thing I do it like f2l yet there are surely more efficent and nicer ways to solve it?


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## 5BLD (Jul 11, 2012)

There are two example solve videos on my youtube channel. If you'd like text examples post scrambles and I will do them either today, tomorrow or in a few weeks' time.


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 11, 2012)

I know for videos, but something like: http://rouxtorial.webs.com/firstblock.htm but with even more examples. It's extremely difficult for me to think of all the ways to combine pieces after 3 years of f2l.

Second block is uber fun, I just did sub2 second block, insane.  Roux ftw!

Instead of Y perm I do E perm. Does anyone else do that? I can sub1 E perm, but Y perm barely sub2.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 11, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> I know for videos, but something like: http://rouxtorial.webs.com/firstblock.htm but with even more examples. It's extremely difficult for me to think of all the ways to combine pieces after 3 years of f2l.
> 
> Second block is uber fun, I just did sub2 second block, insane.  Roux ftw!
> 
> Instead of Y perm I do E perm. Does anyone else do that? I can sub1 E perm, but Y perm barely sub2.



Im going to collect examples of blocks and put them here.


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 11, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Im going to collect examples of blocks and put them here.



Ok. Thanks. Already has some nice examples.


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## Tj2OY (Jul 11, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> Month and a half?
> 
> I have turning speed after 3 years of CFOPing, but blocks are big problem, I got used to f2l pairs that much, that I always build second block with medium edge + 2 f2l pairs, which is bad. Blocks have so much potential to be extremely fast, cmll are algs (6/42 so far) and lse look-ahead is still awful.
> 
> My cfop pb is 7.85, and roux pb - 13.62, so yeah... practice needed.


I do that alot as well


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 12, 2012)

Spoiler



19.75, 19.30, 21.02, 20.07, 22.02, 28.93, *16.53, 15.62, 17.05, (18.28), (14.95)*, 21.23, 18.80, 30.01, 19.56, 17.01, 17.61, 19.84, 30.97, 24.45, 24.69, 15.09, 22.91, 25.56, 23.39, 20.72, 25.33, 20.91, 23.78, 20.24, 22.99, 23.79, 20.60, 16.98



number of times: 34/34
best time: 14.95
worst time: 30.97

best avg5: 16.40

best avg12: 18.15

Avg5 is *bold*, and avg12 is underlined.
I am progressing very well. I improved my first block doing zero rotations.


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## arcio1 (Jul 12, 2012)

30.14, (28.61), (51.86), 45.69, 39.75 = 38.53
Good avg but I have to learn some algs for orienting edges, because at 51.86 I had to orient them twice.


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## 5BLD (Jul 12, 2012)

Well done! Keep it going, always turning nice and slowly- you're progressing quick. Also one rotation in the first block may be better if your solution is awkward from a specific angle.


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 12, 2012)

Thanks.

I sometimes use rotation for something like B U L U' L' but that's why I didn't see U R L U' L'. The first one has origin in my cfop solving and being scared to destroy the cross thingy. D: Will improve over the time.


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## 5BLD (Jul 12, 2012)

U'rB


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## dbeyer (Jul 12, 2012)

I have started back up with cubing. I am taking it pretty seriously now. I have nmCmLL fully learned. Now here is my problem, my speedsolves are not as fast now. CmLL recognition seems to slow me down. On top of that, my slow F2B solves are about 18-25 moves. This is great I think. However, I do not solve this well when the timer is going.

Any tips?


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## PandaCuber (Jul 12, 2012)

dbeyer said:


> I have started back up with cubing. I am taking it pretty seriously now. I have nmCmLL fully learned. Now here is my problem, my speedsolves are not as fast now. CmLL recognition seems to slow me down. On top of that, my slow F2B solves are about 18-25 moves. This is great I think. However, I do not solve this well when the timer is going.
> 
> Any tips?



I think 20 moves on F2B is really good...
I would say, lookahead. Practice solving something without looking at it. Anything really. And once youve mastered that, you can do that, while looking for the next solution.
You dont tps at all. (fast tps).


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## dbeyer (Jul 13, 2012)

> You dont tps at all. (fast tps).


Meaning what exactly?

I know that tps is turns per second.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 13, 2012)

That you dont need to turn fast? 
I feel like the only thing you need for roux is lookahead.


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## dbeyer (Jul 13, 2012)

I saw the sub 15 average w/ slow turning on Waffle's guide. So, transition very very smoothly and the times will drop?


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 13, 2012)

5BLD said:


> U'rB



omg ._.


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## Petro Leum (Jul 13, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> That you dont need to turn fast?
> I feel like the only thing you need for roux is lookahead.



Roux is so sexy. Whenever i try to solve with roux, i automatically slowturn....

It feels that you get tps much faster then lookahead, and when using roux i realise that i am able to turn twice as fast as i need for my speed. its a good feeling.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 13, 2012)

dbeyer said:


> I saw the sub 15 average w/ slow turning on Waffle's guide. So, transition very very smoothly and the times will drop?



exactly. smooth is sexy.


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## arcio1 (Jul 14, 2012)

ao5: 29.08 
27.50, (43.00), (27.21), 29.55, 30.21 
Slowturning FTW!


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 14, 2012)

20 moves for whole f2b?!

I use like 10-14 moves just for first block. D:


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## PandaCuber (Jul 14, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> 20 moves for whole f2b?!
> 
> I use like 10-14 moves just for first block. D:



make it 9!


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## dbeyer (Jul 14, 2012)

You speak of predicting the CmLL case. How do you go about that, what are you looking for?

I can really see the power of getting a look at the CmLL while inserting the last F2B edge with an M-move.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 14, 2012)

dbeyer said:


> You speak of predicting the CmLL case. How do you go about that, what are you looking for?



when building the SB, you can start looking at the corners to atleast look for the corner orientation. its pretty easy.


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 15, 2012)

what happened to waffo's site? O_O


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## PandaCuber (Jul 15, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> what happened to waffo's site? O_O



idk. :/


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 15, 2012)

it's back on tracks.


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 21, 2012)

Roux PB: *9.96*

The solve was pretty sick.
FB: 3 moves
SB: pretty normal
CMLL: anti-sune oll
LSE: M2 U U2 (skip?)

It felt awesome!
My cfop pb is 7.99, but sub10 after so little time spent with Roux is amazing. Roux is incredible!!


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## 5BLD (Jul 21, 2012)

Nice  
Did you see the skip coming during CMLL?


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 21, 2012)

No. I saw DF and DB solved on U with matched center so decided to solve them and then saw U was solved and in speed did U, and then U2.


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## 5BLD (Jul 21, 2012)

Cool, but try not to solve DFDB first-- you may get an EPLL/ELL. Scramble?


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 21, 2012)

I know DF-DB solving is bad, but it somehow popped in the solve and it turned out to be superb.


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 24, 2012)

(12.79), 16.36, 13.38, (17.95), 15.09 = 14.94

First ao5 sub15.

I tried to keep first block as simple as possible and tried desperately to escape f2l-ing pairs which led me to a bit faster fb, and when fb is a bit easier then I have sub15 time.
Slowly learning cmll and using commutators from bld for some cases.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 24, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> (12.79), 16.36, 13.38, (17.95), 15.09 = 14.94
> 
> First ao5 sub15.
> 
> ...



Already faster than me...Why does everyone improve so quickly!?


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 24, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Already faster than me...Why does everyone improve so quickly!?



This is best ao5 ever with Roux. You probably have like sub12 ao5. Usually my ao5 is high 17.xx or low 18.xx. Also, I retained some of the speed and reco from 3 years of cfop.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 24, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> This is best ao5 ever with Roux. You probably have like sub12 ao5. Usually my ao5 is high 17.xx or low 18.xx. Also, I retained some of the speed and reco from 3 years of cfop.



Ive only had one sub 15 Ao12. 
haha yeah TPS helps a lot.


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## Cool Frog (Jul 24, 2012)

Woke up yesterday... Broke PB avg 12.

15.91, (20.23), 17.63, 16.80, 15.52, 17.54, 15.08, 14.58, 15.55, 15.16, (11.93), 14.66

15.84 avg 12 
14.80 avg5

FInally improving after a SUPER long plateau.

Oh yes, I am also working on an interesting LSE "tricks"
will post with updates after it is done =P


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## JonnyWhoopes (Jul 24, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Already faster than me...Why does everyone improve so quickly!?



Not everybody improves quickly. I've been cubing for over four years now, and I'm barely 13-14.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 25, 2012)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> Not everybody improves quickly. I've been cubing for over four years now, and I'm barely 13-14.


Wow, but 4 years with Roux? 



Cool Frog said:


> Woke up yesterday... Broke PB avg 12.
> 
> 15.91, (20.23), 17.63, 16.80, 15.52, 17.54, 15.08, 14.58, 15.55, 15.16, (11.93), 14.66
> 
> ...



Show us


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## JonnyWhoopes (Jul 25, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Wow, but 4 years with Roux?



Three years and ~ three months.


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## Cool Frog (Jul 25, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Show us



It is in the early stages... but I could give an example....

setup: M' S2 M D' M2 u M2 U M' U' M

Solution: (poor example but live with it)
M U' M2'


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## 5BLD (Jul 25, 2012)

Ya misoriented centres are cool
I was discussing stuff like that with Pandacuber a while ago 

Are the tricks mostly to do with EO+ULUR?


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## Cool Frog (Jul 25, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Ya misoriented centres are cool
> I was discussing stuff like that with Pandacuber a while ago
> 
> Are the tricks mostly to do with EO+ULUR?



including a few easy LSE cases to recognize... yep!

thought about having UF/UR stuff in there also, however it is a bit hard to recognize with NM centers. (don't stand out as much as UL/UR)


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## Petro Leum (Jul 25, 2012)

i have many qproblems with LSE, but im currently too busy to work it out  will come back on it, maybe your "tricks" can help me


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## PandaCuber (Jul 25, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> It is in the early stages... but I could give an example....
> 
> setup: M' S2 M D' M2 u M2 U M' U' M
> 
> ...



i liek.


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## Renslay (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi There!

I'm using Roux since ages (more than 6 years, ugh, yeah, I started it at the end of 2005, switching from Petrus), but I'm not really that fast-learner...  My average is now about 17.5 seconds (breakdown is about 11-2.5-4). I'm thinking about improving my partial color-neutrality. Currently I can start with 4 different blocks: White or yellow blocks on left with always red or orange on bottom (so my CMLL corners are always orange or red on top). The second block has always the same color on bottom as the first one (no "rotation"). What is your suggestion for next step? Or this is enough, and I have to improve it in an other way?
Currently my F2B is considered "fast" when it is about 9 sec. I also try to minimize the cube rotation to zero; I rotate it one times occasionally.

Thanks!


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 26, 2012)

Try improving f2b.
Use as least moves as possible and try to see whole FB during execution so you could solve it sub2 and SB in 3-4 seconds. Your cmll and lse seem pretty good, but blocks should be a lot quicker, I wouldn't suggest color-neutral solving if you are not all great with the most familiar colors. Improve f2b to solve them sub6.


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 27, 2012)

13.45, 13.18, (12.40), (21.30), 16.15 = 14.26

Not bad, not bad at all.
I cleaned up and re-lubed my Fedora cube now M turns soooo smooooth. 
Amazing what cleaning does. : ]


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## PandaCuber (Jul 27, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> 13.45, 13.18, (12.40), (21.30), 16.15 = 14.26
> 
> Not bad, not bad at all.
> I cleaned up and re-lubed my Fedora cube now M turns soooo smooooth.
> Amazing what cleaning does. : ]



Maybe one day you could make a video ao5 or something. Would love to see you roux.


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## arcio1 (Jul 29, 2012)

After a few days without solving using two hands:
18.91 L U L2 F R' B' U2 F R' B' L2 R' B2 F R U L D' B' R' F2 U F2 R F Full Step 
First Non-LC sub-20 after 20 days with Roux and about 5 days without TH solving, nice, Roux is amazing


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## ThtDarnNeighbor (Jul 29, 2012)

kso i still do second block f2l style and i have no idea how not to

and a problem i have w second block is when the corner (white cross) is facing up, i cant do F or B moves

how to do both?


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## 5BLD (Jul 29, 2012)

rUr' r'U'r
Obtw, don't do it F2L style


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## ThtDarnNeighbor (Jul 29, 2012)

to the alg i say derp

and how, all the tutorials ive seen just say "intuition! diy!" i figured out all the f2l cases intuitively and i cant figure out how to do this -_-


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 29, 2012)

(RUR'U')x3 ?
It's f2l-ish but there probably isn't any faster and nicer solution.

I solve SB always middle edge + 2 f2l pair but pairing pairs is done mostly with M slice, I do not do that only when there is some easy to see center+edge pair and corner+middle edge pair that could be easily matched. If you try to improve your way of thinking for SB don't time it, just take a nice long look at the pieces and try to find some nice ways to match them all.

EDIT:

10.14 and one very nice time, just look at my signature - *8.23*!! (FB was solved)


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## ThtDarnNeighbor (Jul 29, 2012)

say this happens, the lsat 2 pieces of ur sb

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/images/1/17/F2L23.png
m slice is open

what do you do


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## waffle=ijm (Jul 29, 2012)

r U2 r' U' M' r U r'

or

R M U' M2 R B' R' B R'

or

R M U' M2 U' R' U' r U r'

or

F' U' F U' R U' R' U R U' R'

or

M2 R U' r U2 r U R'

there's a crap load more but lazy and sht.


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## Kirjava (Jul 29, 2012)

I like U R U' R' U' R U' R' U R U' R'


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## PandaCuber (Jul 29, 2012)

My LSE is getting worse. How can I improve? 

4.78 (σ = 0.52)
4.63, 4.86, 7.82, 4.27, 4.29, 4.58, 4.13, 5.33, 5.08, 5.15, 3.80, 4.02, 5.05, 4.99, 4.17, 4.64, 3.37, 6.14, 5.01, 5.22, 5.31, 6.38, 4.85, 4.15, 4.45


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## waffle=ijm (Jul 30, 2012)

You can use this "slowed down" period to practice transitions.


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## Renslay (Aug 1, 2012)

waffle=ijm said:


> r U2 r' U' M' r U r'
> 
> or
> 
> ...



My first idea was
r M' U' r' U2 r U R'
but then I realize it is the same as your last one...


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## PandaCuber (Aug 7, 2012)

Anybody like any Roux videos/torials/anything? Ive got time to make them


----------



## Ickathu (Aug 7, 2012)

LSE and second block tutorials/tips and tricks

Oh, and walkthrough solves in general are helpful


----------



## Renslay (Aug 7, 2012)

Very slow motion videos about fingertricks, especially for LSE (M turns, the E2 M E2 M' patterns, etc.)


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## 5BLD (Aug 7, 2012)

Ill do a lse avg12 or something in slowmo. Interested to watch it myself.

I am pretty bad at walkthrougs but ill try


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## AbstractAlg (Aug 7, 2012)

After finding x U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' R2 alg I switched back to cfop. My roux look-ahead exist does not, while I sub15 cfop. Rouxprogress was too slow, and the thought of discarding all the olls and plls just wasn't attractive to me.


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## 5BLD (Aug 11, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> After finding x U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' R2 alg I switched back to cfop. My roux look-ahead exist does not, while I sub15 cfop. Rouxprogress was too slow, and the thought of discarding all the olls and plls just wasn't attractive to me.



Did you hate the J perm that much...?
I thought that that roux progress was pretty quick.
As for 'discarding olls and plls', I still use PLLs today because, well, I know (most of) them. As for OLL, well I intend to learn OLLCP anyway. 

Either way, it's not 'discarding'. How long does it take to learn OLL and PLL? Two weeks? It's never a waste of time as you'll use them later on.
Not trying to convert you back, I see from my experience it's hard to change... I would relate this to atheism but this post is already too long...


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## arcio1 (Aug 11, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> After finding x U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' R2 alg I switched back to cfop. My roux look-ahead exist does not, while I sub15 cfop. Rouxprogress was too slow, and the thought of discarding all the olls and plls just wasn't attractive to me.


You can still use them one-handed or with feet  


5BLD said:


> I still use PLLs today because, well, I know (most of) them


I though that you use Roux from the beginning, you switched to it from CFOP, too?


----------



## Cool Frog (Aug 11, 2012)

I forgot my G perms... Only because I know OLLCP...

Tis still useful though, I got an F perm at ~5 seconds into a solve (DNF because I hate F perms)


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## PandaCuber (Aug 11, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> I though that you use Roux from the beginning, you switched to it from CFOP, too?



I dont think so, he just likes to learn algs.


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## Petro Leum (Aug 11, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Did you hate the J perm that much...?
> I thought that that roux progress was pretty quick.
> As for 'discarding olls and plls', I still use PLLs today because, well, I know (most of) them. As for OLL, well I intend to learn OLLCP anyway.
> 
> ...


roux progress is slow if you have to figure out fast and efficient blockbuilding for the first time. its a pain, but its worth it not only for roux.


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## 5BLD (Aug 11, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> I dont think so, he just likes to learn algs.



I did in fact switch from CFOP but I didnt care about my times until people began pointing out my progress was quite fast (lol). I think in this 'not caring' time I accidentally discovered the benefits of practising slowly and the benefits of lookahead, though not to mention the fact I used to use a rubik's brand for roux until like 15s.




Petro Leum said:


> roux progress is slow if you have to figure out fast and efficient blockbuilding for the first time. its a pain, but its worth it not only for roux.



Yes, progress is slow at first if you look at speed. But efficiency is what is developing in that 'static' time. 

I do stroke my imaginary beard when someone tells me "I've switched to Roux, it's really easy, I think I can speedcube with it easily now. Second block is easy"
I proceed to say, well thats strange, I find second block the hardest- how many moves do you average for it?
"uh, 20"
So yeah. being efficient is very hard at first but if you find it hard and work at it, eventually you wqill have a strong foundation for speed.


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## arcio1 (Aug 11, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> I dont think so, he just likes to learn algs.


just lol 

EDIT:
ninja'd


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## Petro Leum (Aug 12, 2012)

do you actually always do LH block first and then right one with RrUM? because i didnt really think about that and now i noticed i mostly do RH block first


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## 5BLD (Aug 13, 2012)

Petro Leum said:


> do you actually always do LH block first and then right one with RrUM? because i didnt really think about that and now i noticed i mostly do RH block first



I always do it that way yes. There's no disadvantage to the way you suggested. Give it a go.


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## Petro Leum (Aug 13, 2012)

5BLD said:


> I always do it that way yes. There's no disadvantage to the way you suggested. Give it a go.



my left hand has become pretty fast because of zz so ill stick with that for roux


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## AbstractAlg (Aug 14, 2012)

Crazy thing happened.
Practicing CFOP then, "oh well, let's check the rouxy." After 10 solves with Roux I had better single than last 50 cfop solves but averages were +4 seconds worse. What should I do? Stick to Roux desperately trying to equal my solve times and lower the averages or hope that a bit lucky cfop solve will come? Help. (


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## PandaCuber (Aug 14, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> Crazy thing happened.
> Practicing CFOP then, "oh well, let's check the rouxy." After 10 solves with Roux I had better single than last 50 cfop solves but averages were +4 seconds worse. What should I do? Stick to Roux desperately trying to equal my solve times and lower the averages or hope that a bit lucky cfop solve will come? Help. (



Flip a coin. Assign one of the faces Roux and the other CFOP. As you throw the coin in the air, you will most likely 'hope' for one of them to win. Thats your answer.


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## Ickathu (Aug 14, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Flip a coin. Assign one of the faces Roux and the other CFOP. As you throw the coin in the air, you will most likely 'hope' for one of them to win. Thats your answer.



Yeah, and when it lands with one of them and you go "Aw man!" then you know the answer. Or if you go "YES!" when you see one of them up, then you know. Your subconscious is quite helpful...


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## AbstractAlg (Aug 14, 2012)

No, I really have no clue which one to pick. Roux can be improved in means of efficient solving F2B and learning CMLL, while CFOP is somewhere reaching it's limits. UGH, hate this decision.

I'll probably do 50 solves of both methods and see which one I like more. 

* coin flip would probably result in "aw man" for cfop, because I really like Roux while CFOP is just faster (currently).


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## PandaCuber (Aug 14, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> No, I really have no clue which one to pick. Roux can be improved in means of efficient solving F2B and learning CMLL, while CFOP is somewhere reaching it's limits. UGH, hate this decision.
> 
> I'll probably do 50 solves of both methods and see which one I like more.
> 
> * coin flip would probably result in "aw man" for cfop, because I really like Roux while CFOP is just faster (currently).



Only you can solve this problem my friend.


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## Cool Frog (Aug 14, 2012)

Roux? CFOP?


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## spyr0th3dr4g0n (Aug 14, 2012)

I have a question for roux users:

If you were given a scramble with a cross pre-solved, would you fill in two corners to make a block (or another trick) and proceed with roux, or would you CFOP the solve?


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## arcio1 (Aug 14, 2012)

I would CFOP the solve, because I have similar times with CFOP and Roux now (CFOP even little better).


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## TanookiTrev (Aug 14, 2012)

I averaged about 21-22 with Fridrich (Two years using it, so I'm a slow progresser) and recently It started getting extremely tedious and my averages were slowing by about 2 seconds (which I attribute to not enjoying the method anymore) so two days ago I switched to roux. I realize it is REALLY early days and I probably shouldn't have timed myself until I really got the gist of the method but I got an average of 5 of about 1.16.xx . I'm not really sure if it's "normal" to be THAT much slower after switching to roux. I'll probably stick with it at least until the new year anyway because it is so much fun (I may switch back if I don't get to sub-30 by then) but I was just wondering what other people were averaging in their first few days and what is a reasonable time to hope to average in 4 months? Sorry for all the words but I figured too much information is better than too little


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## Endgame (Aug 14, 2012)

TanookiTrev said:


> I averaged about 21-22 with Fridrich (Two years using it, so I'm a slow progresser) and recently It started getting extremely tedious and my averages were slowing by about 2 seconds (which I attribute to not enjoying the method anymore) so two days ago I switched to roux. I realize it is REALLY early days and I probably shouldn't have timed myself until I really got the gist of the method but I got an average of 5 of about 1.16.xx . I'm not really sure if it's "normal" to be THAT much slower after switching to roux. I'll probably stick with it at least until the new year anyway because it is so much fun (I may switch back if I don't get to sub-30 by then) but I was just wondering what other people were averaging in their first few days and what is a reasonable time to hope to average in 4 months? Sorry for all the words but I figured too much information is better than too little



See my signature for my progression. I've started ±3 weeks ago.


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## 5BLD (Aug 14, 2012)

spyr0th3dr4g0n said:


> I have a question for roux users:
> 
> If you were given a scramble with a cross pre-solved, would you fill in two corners to make a block (or another trick) and proceed with roux, or would you CFOP the solve?



I would NOT solve the block that the cross entails as you described; I'd solve a block using fewer moves


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## Renslay (Aug 14, 2012)

spyr0th3dr4g0n said:


> I have a question for roux users:
> 
> If you were given a scramble with a cross pre-solved, would you fill in two corners to make a block (or another trick) and proceed with roux, or would you CFOP the solve?



Solve the corners to get a regular block and do Roux (since my CFOP is awful). Although, it is possible that building an other block is even easier (but with only a small chance).


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## 5BLD (Aug 14, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> * coin flip would probably result in "aw man" for cfop, because *I really like Roux* while CFOP is just faster *(currently)*.



just go with Roux. You will be happier.


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## TanookiTrev (Aug 15, 2012)

Endgame said:


> See my signature for my progression. I've started ±3 weeks ago.



Ahh, cool! The more I think about my times the less I get hung up on it. I'll just see how I go with practice and hope I can improve my move count. I'm just not very efficient because I tend to use an f2l sort of style with blockbuilding. But I suppose good things take time!


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## Endgame (Aug 15, 2012)

TanookiTrev said:


> Ahh, cool! The more I think about my times the less I get hung up on it. I'll just see how I go with practice and hope I can improve my move count. I'm just not very efficient because I tend to use an f2l sort of style with blockbuilding. But I suppose good things take time!



Just look at blockbuilding as F2L where the corner can never point to the top and where you use the M-slice to form corner-edgepairs.


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## PandaCuber (Aug 15, 2012)

spyr0th3dr4g0n said:


> I have a question for roux users:
> If you were given a scramble with a cross pre-solved, would you fill in two corners to make a block (or another trick) and proceed with roux, or would you CFOP the solve?



I would continue with my usual Roux solve. No tricks. 



TanookiTrev said:


> I averaged about 21-22 with Fridrich (Two years using it, so I'm a slow progresser) and recently It started getting extremely tedious and my averages were slowing by about 2 seconds (which I attribute to not enjoying the method anymore) so two days ago I switched to roux. I realize it is REALLY early days and I probably shouldn't have timed myself until I really got the gist of the method but I got an average of 5 of about *1.16.xx* . I'm not really sure if it's "normal" to be THAT much slower after switching to roux. I'll probably stick with it at least until the new year anyway because it is so much fun (I may switch back if I don't get to sub-30 by then) but I was just wondering what other people were averaging in their first few days and what is a reasonable time to hope to average in 4 months? Sorry for all the words but I figured too much information is better than too little



I remember I averaged around 27 with CFOP and I started playing with roux and my times went up a minute(so 1:30)
I continued with Roux because I hated the algs of CFOP. Just kept playing with it and within a few months, I was already faster than my cfop times.


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## TanookiTrev (Aug 15, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> I remember I averaged around 27 with CFOP and I started playing with roux and my times went up a minute(so 1:30)
> I continued with Roux because I hated the algs of CFOP. Just kept playing with it and within a few months, I was already faster than my cfop times.



Ooooh this makes me want to do loads of solves  Thanks!


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## A Leman (Aug 15, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> No, I really have no clue which one to pick. Roux can be improved in means of efficient solving F2B and learning CMLL, while CFOP is somewhere reaching it's limits. UGH, hate this decision.
> * coin flip would probably result in "aw man" for cfop, because I really like Roux while CFOP is just faster (currently).



I started geting serious about Roux when my CFOP solves felt too comfortable. I put so much work into Inspection that my look ahead made solving boring and left my tps as the main section of improvement. 

On the otherhand, I have ALOT of things that I need to improve with Roux and feel it is a method that can grow with its user. It also has a much lower movecount if you control your eo and blocks. 

Why not use both? CFOP is not a hard method to keep in shape for. you could do around 20 CFOP solves a day and spend the rest of the time improving your Roux. Either way, don't lose hope in Roux so easily!!!


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## 5BLD (Aug 15, 2012)

It will end up being a lot of work to maintain the CFOP. Roux progress WILL be faster if you work on it more you see.


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## AbstractAlg (Aug 15, 2012)

I practiced yesterday efficient solving SB, and very few solves are closer optimal when solving middle edge + 2x f2l pair, it's even better to do middle edge+corner+edge + pair. The point is, all I've ever done is f2l-ing, and now I realize there's even more to improve in my roux. cmll algs, lse look-ahead still waiting, so as optimal FB. And I do like Roux. Damn with choices.

I also flipped coin.
The result:



Spoiler



tails = Roux
"YESS!!"


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## 5BLD (Aug 15, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> I practiced yesterday efficient solving SB, and very few solves are closer optimal when solving middle edge + 2x f2l pair, it's even better to do middle edge+corner+edge + pair. The point is, all I've ever done is f2l-ing, and now I realize there's even more to improve in my roux. cmll algs, lse look-ahead still waiting, so as *optimal FB*. And I do like Roux. Damn with choices.
> 
> I also flipped coin.
> The result:
> ...



Hmmm. Good luck with optimal first block on every solve...
Also:


Spoiler



YEESSSS!!


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## AbstractAlg (Aug 15, 2012)

*more optimal 

Session stats:


Spoiler



number of times: 50/50
best time: 14.14
worst time: 29.38

best avg5: 15.77
best avg12: 16.75 

21.55, 21.07, 20.80, 15.87, 19.13, 16.10, 18.59, 14.97, 24.40, 16.91, 22.47, 16.72, 20.26, 29.38, 23.23, 16.96, 19.96, 18.74, 19.87, 22.14, 16.45, 15.14, 17.99, 18.04, 26.07, 18.19, 16.00, 23.21, 25.16, 20.01, 19.49, 17.91, 16.71, 19.63, 22.77, 15.67, *17.06, 14.70, (23.24), 15.56, (14.14)*, 17.19, 15.93, 17.80, 17.24, 17.51, 18.80, 17.58, 17.66, 17.37

-_- pause that did nothing good. f2b takes usually 10.xx seconds
this is painful


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## Iggy (Aug 15, 2012)

Great tutorial! Just started learning Roux a few weeks ago, my current PB is 22.xx. I think I average around 38-40. It's just so fun!


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## PandaCuber (Aug 16, 2012)

Iggy said:


> Great tutorial! Just started learning Roux a few weeks ago, my current PB is 22.xx. I think I average around 38-40. It's just so fun!



Thanks. Keep up the good work.


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## arcio1 (Aug 17, 2012)

B2 R2 F' L F D F L' R D F U' L' U' F2 U F2 B' L' U R' D' B R' U Scramble white on top, green front
Is the Blue-White-Green-Red first block the best or is there better?


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## Athefre (Aug 17, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> B2 R2 F' L F D F L' R D F U' L' U' F2 U F2 B' L' U R' D' B R' U Scramble white on top, green front
> Is the Blue-White-Green-Red first block the best or is there better?



Well, those three pieces can fit two centers, giving two different blocks. Put the scramble into jarcs and it gives these as the shortest:

F2 M B D'
L U' F2 D2 B


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## Ickathu (Aug 17, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> B2 R2 F' L F D F L' R D F U' L' U' F2 U F2 B' L' U R' D' B R' U Scramble white on top, green front
> Is the Blue-White-Green-Red first block the best or is there better?



I would do

y' x'
r U' B R2 u2 B u // (7, 54)
U R' U' r' U' M' U' R' // (7, 54)
F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' // yperm (17, 54)
U' M' U' M' U' M2 U' M' U' M' // EO (10, 54)
M2 U' M' U2 M U M2 U // UL/UR (8, 54)
M' U2 M U2 R2 // L4E (5, 54)

I'm not sure if it's the best, but that's what I see.


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## Cool Frog (Aug 17, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> I would do
> 
> y' x'
> r U' B R2 u2 B u // (7, 54)
> ...


for EO
U' M' U M U' M' U' M' //EO (8)
U M2 U' // UL/UR (3)
r2 U2 M' U2 M //EP (5)


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## 5BLD (Aug 17, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> B2 R2 F' L F D F L' R D F U' L' U' F2 U F2 B' L' U R' D' B R' U Scramble white on top, green front
> Is the Blue-White-Green-Red first block the best or is there better?



z'y'
R2Eru' 4/4
U'r'UM'URU2R URU'MU'R' 14/18
x'RUR'DRU'RU'R2D'RUL' 13/31
MUM'UM' U'MU2M U'M2U2M' 14/45

SB was long, and so was LSE but its what id do in speedsolve


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## 5BLD (Aug 17, 2012)

> F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' // yperm (17, 54)
> U' M' U' M' U' M2 U' M' U' M' // EO (10, 54)
> M2 U' M' U2 M U M2 U // UL/UR (8, 54)
> M' U2 M U2 R2 // L4E (5, 54)



MUM2 //EO
x'r'DR2UR'U2R'D'RU2RU'L' //CMLL+ ULUR stuff
UM2U //ULUR
rU2M'U2r //4c


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## arcio1 (Aug 17, 2012)

5BLD said:


> z'y'
> R2Eru' 4/4
> U'r'UM'URU2R URU'MU'R' 14/18
> x'RUR'DRU'RU'R2D'RUL' 13/31
> ...


It doesn't seem to work.
http://alg.garron.us/?alg=z-y-
R2Er...-_R_D_F_U-_L-_U-_F2_U_F2_B-_L-_U_R-_D-_B_R-_U


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## 5BLD (Aug 17, 2012)

Oh you can use common sense
z'y' R2Eru' // 4/4 U'r'UM'URU2R URU'MU'R' // 14/18 x'RUR'DRU'RU'R2D'RUL' // 13/31 MUM'UM' U'MU2M U'MU2M'// 14/45


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## arcio1 (Aug 17, 2012)

Just wanted to inform you


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## 5BLD (Aug 17, 2012)

ya thanks for that
sorry my comment was a tiny bit rude 
too much talking to kirjava


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## PandaCuber (Aug 17, 2012)

5BLD said:


> too much talking to kirjava



Next thing you know, youll have cat ears on and taking seminude pics...


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## Cool Frog (Aug 18, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Next thing you know, youll have cat ears on and taking seminude pics...



What do you mean "Next thing you know?"


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## PandaCuber (Aug 18, 2012)

Should i learn 2.5looklse? Is there an advantage to it? (inspeedsolves)


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## Athefre (Aug 18, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Should i learn 2.5looklse? Is there an advantage to it? (inspeedsolves)


 Which one? You can discover some useful things from other methods, but, unless you see an overlooked advantage, it's more important to focus on improving your knowledge of your current method.


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## PandaCuber (Aug 18, 2012)

Athefre said:


> Which one? You can discover some useful things from other methods, but, unless you see an overlooked advantage, it's more important to focus on improving your knowledge of your current method.



This


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## 5BLD (Aug 18, 2012)

I learnt all of it a while ago. I do not recommend you actually use it in solves all the time however it will teach you some tricks if you don't know them already...


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## TanookiTrev (Aug 19, 2012)

I started learning Roux on August 13th and I did an average (3of5) this morning- (39.43), 41.52, 41.89, (45.88), 41.86 = 41.116
I think my maths is right (I hope). After about 45 minutes with roux I did an average and got 1.16.xx so I've improved quite a bit with only about a total of 2 hours practice. I understand I'm still really slow but I'm pleased with my progress (especially considering I haven't put a whole lot of time into it yet). My next goal is sub-30 within a month(?), and after that I hope to get to my CFOP times. 
I was just wondering If I were to make a video with some of my solves would people help me out even if I didn't talk in it? Anyway, I officially love roux and I'm really excited because I have heaps to improve on


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## waffle=ijm (Aug 19, 2012)

If you post a video, then we can critique you. Go for it.


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## TanookiTrev (Aug 19, 2012)

waffle=ijm said:


> If you post a video, then we can critique you. Go for it.



Yay, Thanks. I'll post it in this thread when I get around to it, I'm not sure when It'll be though because I have lots of school work


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## AbstractAlg (Aug 19, 2012)

Holy mother of god! 

12.93, (12.68), (18.49), 13.16, 12.88 = 12.99 ao5

That was sick. All five solve had nicer FB than usual solves, but this was insane. My LSE improved a lot for some reason, now can sub3. 
So surprised by this, but happy.


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## Mnts (Aug 19, 2012)

Hello all roux fans, recently I started learning this method because it looked very attractive to me and now I found its really fun too. I'm really thinking to switch it to my main but not sure yet. I'd be glad if you could give me some tips to improve.


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## Ickathu (Aug 19, 2012)

I noticed that you seemed a bit rigid on your second block. Now, don't quote me, because I stink at SB, but it looked like you were searching for the one red-blue edge first, rather than doing a different one, or taking a different approach to that square. Your LSE looked pretty good, but the EO was a bit slow. That will probably come with practice though. My EO, for example, is pretty fast, and I can usually do it without any thinking, but the rest of my LSE is slow and miserable. Not really inefficient, but just slow.
One more thing, there was a big pause between your first and second block. I think that was partly because you solved FB on F, instead of L, so you couldn't really look around the cube - it was all blocked. Try building the first block on the left side, so that you can see the rest of the pieces and look-ahead into the second block better.


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## Mnts (Aug 19, 2012)

Thanks for tips, I'm having quite hard transition from Cross, so I just keep looking for peaces during first block, for second one I found some nice ways to build it but I need to practice it more and start look ahead a bit. I already learned sunes and antisunes CMLLs maybe its too early but earlier I learn less trouble in future. LSE is tricky but yeah with time I'll get used to it.


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## 5BLD (Aug 21, 2012)

Okay so FB on F is fine, if you can plan in inspection is good. However always think of different angles. You may be able to do it on L without problems. If youre gonna do it on F make sure you look ahead on the B and S slices.

Also, don't hurry! That SB, just turn slowly and try to plan the beginning while solving the last bit of the FB. Do not pause, turn really fast, pause, turn really fast, pause, turn really fast etc.

Cmll is ok

Lse, turn slower so you don't pause between steps. And look for easy cases. Like in the vid rather than M'U2M' you could do MU2MU2M2 and not have E2ME2M. Maybe its a bit early for stuff like that.

Your main problem is you turn too fast. You need to be able to solve with very few pauses


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## 95Rifles (Aug 22, 2012)

Can someone help me with my 2nd block? I recorded and then reconstructed this solve, it was 21.89s.

Yesterday I decided since my CFOP isn't really getting anywhere, stuck around 15/16s that I would change to Roux for good. 

*Solve
*

Because I don't know CMLL I'm two looking the corners... I can upload video but I was trying to turn slow...


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## PandaCuber (Aug 22, 2012)

95Rifles said:


> D' R2 B' U' R U' D R D2 L2 D R2 F2 D2 R2 D' B2 R2 D
> 
> z2 //inspection
> D' d' M U M' U2 L U' L' M U M' L' U L //FB
> ...



Okay lets start with First Block. There are various things you could've done to rid of some moves. 
I noticed you connected the WG(whitegreen) edge to the center; thats too CFOPy. What you need is a Corner-Edge pair => Going to insert GOW corner to WG edge <R' U2 R>. 
Now we could do a <D'> But the GO edge isnt in the right 'slot'. So we do a <F2 D'>. Do you see how the square was made? 
To finish the First Block , <y> to but square on left. ,<R' U' R2 U> There the pair was made. <B2> Insertion. 
15 moves was reduced to 10. Doesnt sound like much, but in a solve, it really is. 

So lets go back to your original Second Block. 
Here you also put the BW edge to its center, making it your 'cross' then you create 2 pairs. Since youre a previous CFOP user, youre forgiven xD 

This is how I would do it. 
I would connect the RBW corner with its edge(RB) and place that BW edge in its place at the same time. 
<M' U' R'> So the pair is made and the BW edge is only a U2 away from being in its place, so lets do that. <U2 F> We broke first block to insert pair, so lets fix it and insert. <R F' R>
The BO edge is in its correct 'slot', so we gotta place the corner without taking out the edge. Heres a little trick. Place corner above edge<U> , place corner and abuse M slice to insert edge <R U M U M' U' r'>

22 Moves reduced to 16. Thats actually a HUGE difference. 

My advice is that you take your time and play with your blocks. Try to rid of that CFOP habit. I know its hard, i had to do the same.


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## 95Rifles (Aug 22, 2012)

Jeez, wow thanks for that, although I can't get the 2nd block advice to work.

I've been trying to avoid making my first block like an XCross and do it a bit differently. I have been trying to work with blocks without timing to make the most efficient choices. This time I'm really serious about choosing Roux and I want to make the best go of it. Seeing how you did that 1st block is was so obvious to me but currently I need these things pointed out...

When should I learn CMLL?


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## PandaCuber (Aug 22, 2012)

> although I can't get the 2nd block advice to work.



Go back to your original solve. Do:


> D' R2 B' U' R U' D R D2 L2 D R2 F2 D2 R2 D' B2 R2 D
> 
> z2 //inspection
> D' d' M U M' U2 L U' L' M U M' L' U L //FB


Then do what I wrote. 



> I've been trying to avoid making my first block like an XCross and do it a bit differently. I have been trying to work with blocks without timing to make the most efficient choices. This time I'm really serious about choosing Roux and I want to make the best go of it. Seeing how you did that 1st block is was so obvious to me but currently I need these things pointed out...



Its all good. Everyone needs help. 



> When should I learn CMLL?



When you average around 25, i think you should start learning.


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## pijok (Aug 22, 2012)

D' R2 B' U' R U' D R D2 L2 D R2 F2 D2 R2 D' B2 R2 D 

*First block:*


95Rifles said:


> D' d'


You're inserting the DL edge here, you can just use an edge which already is matching the center



95Rifles said:


> M U M' U2 L U' L'


you are creating the corner edge pair at a very bad position (ULF, UF)
better would be: l U M' U



95Rifles said:


> M U M' L' U L


rubbish... M U R' F

*Second block:*


95Rifles said:


> F R' F'


same as FB



95Rifles said:


> R U R2 U R U2 M r U r'


just R' U' R or with your pair:
R U R2 U R U2 R U R'



95Rifles said:


> U' M U2 M' U2 R' U R


U' r' U2 M' U' R

You insert the D edge first, often you just can use an other edge with is matching the L/R center or you can do a corner-edge pair first.


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## pijok (Aug 22, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> <M' U' R'> So the pair is made and the BW edge is only a U2 away from being in its place, so lets do that. <U2 F> We broke first block to insert pair, so lets fix it and insert. <R F' R>


Pair: U' R'
Insertion: U' F' U' F
Rest: R' U M U M' U' R'


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## PandaCuber (Aug 22, 2012)

pijok said:


> Pair: U' R'
> Insertion: U' F' U' F
> Rest: R' U M U M' U' R'



Oh thats nice. Would have never figured that out. Thanks.


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## A Leman (Aug 22, 2012)

> D' R2 B' U' R U' D R D2 L2 D R2 F2 D2 R2 D' B2 R2 D


This scramble is perfect for me to ask about a growing habit of mine.

When I solved that I ended up making two squares before the first block and finishing the right side first. It was all a result of lucky case recognition. I intended to protect the left block while solving the right, but ended up doing the right side first. It is something that I have slowly started doing as I became more comfortable block building. 


I guess my question is, do other more experienced Rouxers end up flipping steps like that often to protect lucky right block states?

Inspection x2z’
U2L2U’x (3) right square 
U’R2U (6) left square
r RU’R’ (10)right block
U2 M U’ l’ U l (16) left block
R’FRUR’U’F’UR (25) KCMLL
M2U2M2 (28) LR edges
U’M’U2MU’ (33) finish


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## PandaCuber (Aug 22, 2012)

A Leman said:


> Inspection x2z’
> U2L2U’x (3) right square
> U’R2U (6) left square
> r RU’R’ (10)right block
> ...



I wouldve been too focused on First block to see that xD If it works for you, thats all that matters i guess.


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## 95Rifles (Aug 22, 2012)

What about this as an FB followed by SB

*Here*

This is more hypothetical at the moment, but I guess it's my most efficient yet... Second block is still confusing me but I'm going through some reconstructions to try and improve. To me just now, from CFOP, I want to insert D edge and then do both edges, as you can see.

I'm going to play around with the 2nd block a bit on the solve I've posted and try and finish that efficiently.

pijok - M U R' F that was genius.


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## emolover (Aug 25, 2012)

Are these times good for LSE?

5.60, 2.74, 4.06, 3.53, 4.28, 6.28, 3.34, 4.68, 4.66, 3.63, 5.00, 3.59, 4.36, 6.16, 4.98, 3.78, 5.87, 3.93, 3.98, *3.79, 7.20, 4.23, 2.66, 2.09*, 4.94

number of times: 25/25
best time: 2.09
worst time: 7.20

current avg5: 3.94 (σ = 1.17)
best avg5: 3.56 (σ = 0.81)

current avg12: 4.43 (σ = 1.06)
best avg12: 4.11 (σ = 0.57)

session avg: 4.34 (σ = 0.86)
session mean: 4.37

Current average is 21.5.


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## JonnyWhoopes (Aug 25, 2012)

What's with the random spikes? You should be relatively consistent in your times.


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## PandaCuber (Aug 25, 2012)

For someone who avgs 21, its pretty good.


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## emolover (Aug 25, 2012)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> What's with the random spikes? You should be relatively consistent in your times.



Isn't it like that for everyone? Getting a 3 move orientation, Line(?) skip, and a 3 move permutation makes sometimes a lot faster than others. 

Also I am more consistent in regular solves.


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## PandaCuber (Aug 26, 2012)

Okay fellow Rouxers. Im going to make a serious video this time. Something that I could put a lot of effort/work into. (making scripts,camera angle,background,onscreen text,etc)

What EXACTLY do you guys want? Series with short videos, or a long detailed video about a specific subject? 
If so, about what? 

PS: I know I asked before, but there was a problem with the internet and couldnt upload. Everything is fixed now.


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## SpeedSolve (Aug 26, 2012)

I say a long, detailed video about a specific subject.


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## Endgame (Aug 26, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Okay fellow Rouxers. Im going to make a serious video this time. Something that I could put a lot of effort/work into. (making scripts,camera angle,background,onscreen text,etc)
> 
> What EXACTLY do you guys want? Series with short videos, or a long detailed video about a specific subject?
> If so, about what?
> ...



A very long video about blockbuilding


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## Iggy (Aug 26, 2012)

Finally got a sub-30 average of 5!

29.30, 28.05, 35.04, 27.34, 32.03 = 29.79

By the way, how long does it usually take to fully get used to Roux?


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## 5BLD (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice 
It takes as long as it takes. It depends on the quality of your practice.


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## Speedmaster (Aug 26, 2012)

Is it possible to average sub 10 with Roux in 6 months? I'm nearly sub 10 with CFOP, I know how to do blockbuilding with Roux, my slices are fast, I practice a lot and I have a very good look ahead during f2l  I'm cubing for 1 year now


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## SpeedSolve (Aug 26, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> Is it possible to average sub 10 with Roux in 6 months? I'm nearly sub 10 with CFOP, I know how to do blockbuilding with Roux, my slices are fast, I practice a lot and I have a very good look ahead during f2l  I'm cubing for 1 year now



Sure it's possible. All you need to do is practice. Say, for every 5 CFOP solves, do a Roux solve. Then when you get better with Roux, bring down the amount of CFOP. For every 3 solves do a Roux, and so on. Or, you could just practice Roux all day long. I know that 5BLD cut about 2 seconds off of his average when he did the 10,000 solve challenge.

Edit: Why 6 months?


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## Speedmaster (Aug 26, 2012)

Because there's an important competition for my, and I want to win it,but the question is, can I get the same times, with Roux, or should I stay solving with CFOP. The reason for switching to Roux is, because I think the method has more potencial to be faster, if you watch Feliks and Alexander, you see that Alexander is turning a lot slower, but he is getting better times, and that's what want ! And Alexander's slices look sexy xDD
Sry if you couldn't really understand what i wanted to say, I don'T speak English very well....


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## SpeedSolve (Aug 26, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> Because there's an important competition for my, and I want to win it,but the question is, can I get the same times, with Roux, or should I stay solving with CFOP. The reason for switching to Roux is, because I think the method has more potencial to be faster, if you watch Feliks and Alexander, you see that Alexander is turning a lot slower, but he is getting better times, and that's what want ! And Alexander's slices look sexy xDD
> Sry if you couldn't really understand what i wanted to say, I don'T speak English very well....



No problem. What do you average with Roux? And if this is how you want it to be, do the first thing I suggested. ( xCFOP, 1 Roux) so that you are still getting practice with CFOP, and then if you aren't good enough with Roux, you have been practicing CFOP as well so it's not going to need dusting off. And, you may even increase times with CFOP as well. If you're already averaging 10 seconds with CFOP, there's the good chance that you will at LEAST place, considering it's not like a huge competition. 



Spoiler



And yes, Alex's slices are sexy.


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## Speedmaster (Aug 26, 2012)

D
Thank you so much
And when I'M sub 10 with Roux, I will pracitce both methods, because then I will be good at big cubes too, and I can switch the methods if there's an easy cross, for example
I'm averaging about 25-30s but I did only 50 solves at all. If I would practice 1 week I'm sure i will be sub 20 or sub 15 
Should I make a video? 
Could you give me some special tips?
And what i learned from Alexander's roux tut is, pairing with the M slice, I use that very often now


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## PandaCuber (Aug 26, 2012)

SpeedSolve said:


> I say a long, detailed video about a specific subject.



What should the subject be?


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## SpeedSolve (Aug 26, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> What should the subject be?



Blockbuilding


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## 5BLD (Aug 26, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> D
> Thank you so much
> And when I'M sub 10 with Roux, I will pracitce both methods, because then I will be good at big cubes too, and I can switch the methods if there's an easy cross, for example
> I'm averaging about 25-30s but I did only 50 solves at all. If I would practice 1 week I'm sure i will be sub 20 or sub 15
> ...



So you're trying to get fast at Roux while still practising CFOP? I recommend you chuck away all CFOP for a while until you're faster with Roux. 
Oh for bigcubes. Meh. Freefop is good enough for me lol.

Movecount is really important. I recommend you average movecount to be:
FB - 8
SB- 13
CMLL- bleh/about 10
LSE- 14

Also, don't pause at all. If you struggle with pauses, turn slower. Until you don't pause at all. If you struggle with low movecounts, well, sit there on each scramble and work at it until you get a decent movecount. I didn't do much of that when I started but I'm happy I got it quickly, otherwise my movecount wouldn't be as low. I have trouble lowering my overall SB movecount now despite the efficient things I can see untimed.

psst. metronome practice is good. if you can do it. even if you have to go at 0.25 tps, it is still useful, just keep pushing turnspeed up.

-
Oh, does anyone want a tutorial from me? My tutorials are like, short but detailed. I talk fast and don't hesitate. Because pauses are for nubs 
Enter exhibit A (lol i made this so long ago when my voice still sounded high on camera):


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## Speedmaster (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm sub 25 now
Ok I will only do 50 solves with CFOP now..., and practise more with Roux 
Please do a LSE and a FB tutorial, I really need them, but please explain it slowly xD


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## PandaCuber (Aug 26, 2012)

Do an LSE tutorial. 
Im currently working on F2B walkthroughs.


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## JonnyWhoopes (Aug 26, 2012)

emolover said:


> Isn't it like that for everyone? Getting a 3 move orientation, Line(?) skip, and a 3 move permutation makes sometimes a lot faster than others.
> 
> Also I am more consistent in regular solves.



I more meant the spikes in long times. I can only imagine like 6flip and dots, but even then there are some great algs for 6flips and you can get really fast with dots.


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## Kirjava (Aug 26, 2012)

yeah, these days 6flip is a *good* case


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## Speedmaster (Aug 26, 2012)

5BLD?
do you have a cmll sheet for me?


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## 5BLD (Aug 26, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> 5BLD?
> do you have a cmll sheet for me?



No?
But there is a CMLL thread here with most of my algs?


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## PandaCuber (Aug 26, 2012)

5BLD said:


> No?
> But there is a CMLL thread here with most of my algs?



lol?


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## 5BLD (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh whoops?
I need to get round to making an updated list of my algs?


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## Cool Frog (Aug 26, 2012)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> I more meant the spikes in long times. I can only imagine like 6flip and dots, but even then there are some great algs for 6flips and you can get really fast with dots.



Dots are really easy to recognize UL/UR + eo cases because you only need to see U and F

they are all quite nice.


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## PandaCuber (Aug 26, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> they are all quite nice.



Cuz its a sexy method.


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## Speedmaster (Aug 27, 2012)

5BLD could you do some FB walktroughs? I really need them, because my FB average is about 9-10 moves, I don't really know how to get better, and I have been doing Roux Slow turning for more than 8 hours now... Or could you do whole example solves?


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## PandaCuber (Aug 27, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> 5BLD could you do some FB walktroughs? I really need them, because my FB average is about 9-10 moves, I don't really know how to get better, and I have been doing Roux Slow turning for more than 8 hours now... Or could you do whole example solves?



Im still editing my video. Probably be uploaded by tomorrow. 
Will include F2B walkthrough, with great efficiency.


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## PandaCuber (Aug 28, 2012)

OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG I had this great 15 min video about F2Bs and when i open it right now in windows movie maker(cuz im not going for anything pro), it says that my original videos are no where to be found...
I must have accidentally deleted them. 

Do you guys feel like providing me a scramble? ("a" as in 1 per person)


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## already1329 (Aug 28, 2012)

B' D2 L2 F2 L2 B' L2 D2 B' L2 B2 R D R2 B' F2 L D L' R F2


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## PandaCuber (Aug 28, 2012)

already1329 said:


> B' D2 L2 F2 L2 B' L2 D2 B' L2 B2 R D R2 B' F2 L D L' R F2



Perfect. There are sooo many ways to do FB.


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## Speedmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Did you finish it?


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## Renslay (Sep 1, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> Did you finish it?



I think he will inform us when it is finished.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 1, 2012)

oh totes forgot hahah sorry bro. thanks for reminding me. i get right on it.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 3, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> Did you finish it?



Do you guys find this useful at all?
Or did you not understand a thing and still prefer a video?


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## Cool Frog (Sep 3, 2012)

I think the LSE could have probably been better... But I didn't check it.
(yet)


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## Renslay (Sep 3, 2012)

Seems like a "lucky case", especially with the second block. I don't think it is aways that easy.
In a competition, I would not risk such a technique (preserve one co-pair while creating another), so here is what I would do:

Second block:
r U2 r' U' R U R U' R U' M U R' U' r U r'

Or a better one:
R' U' M2 U R' M2 U r'

Or with matching block (I'm not familiar with non-matching blocks out of FMC):
M R U2 r U' R2 U' R M U R' U' r U r'

A better one:
r' U' R2 U2 M' U' R U M U' R

How much are these solutions bad/good?
(The first one is quite the "worst" case for me, it is rare that I build the second block with longer solution.)


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## arcio1 (Sep 3, 2012)

I think that x2 y' B' L2 U D2 L is better for FB


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## PandaCuber (Sep 3, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> I think the LSE could have probably been better... But I didn't check it.
> (yet)



It was a F2B walkthrough. I still havent mastered the LSE


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## Speedmaster (Sep 3, 2012)

I like it !
But could you do a one with a difficult scramble? I want to know what to do if there are no lucky things


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## PandaCuber (Sep 3, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> I like it !
> But could you do a one with a difficult scramble? I want to know what to do if there are no lucky things



provide scrambles?


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## Speedmaster (Sep 3, 2012)

I had to do 13 solves to get this wonderful scramble 

D' L2 U D' F2 L' R' F D B D' R' U2 F D' B' F L R2 D2 L2 D' L2 F B2

And there are also some questions 
How many moves should my SB take? only the SB. And if the Bottom colour of the SB isn't the same as the FB how can I recognise if I should use T or Y perm? and at your website, with CMLL,there are so many algrhitms, which should I learn? and which of them does 5BLD use  I also want to know if there's a page with the pictures of the cases, because I need to know how all of them look like, before I can learn how to recognise them. 
I've been using Roux for exactly 2 days with practising now, at the begining I was somewhere at 35+ because I wasn't used to blockbuilding..., then I was practising my blocks a lot, I was doing about 150 solves with Roux and now I'M nearly sub 20...Is this good?
Should I learn CMLL now?


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## pijok (Sep 3, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> I had to do 13 solves to get this wonderful scramble
> 
> D' L2 U D' F2 L' R' F D B D' R' U2 F D' B' F L R2 D2 L2 D' L2 F B2


That is what i did with this scramble:

FB: z' U2 r2 F' U2 R' U2 x' U2 (7)
SB: F R2 U F U' R' U' R' U L' (10)
CMLL: U L' U2 L U2 L F' L' F (9)
LSE: U M U M U' (5)

31 STM


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## Speedmaster (Sep 3, 2012)

Nice but you're CN I want to know what opposite colour neutral people would do 
Would you recommend me doing colourneutral Roux, at the moment it's very difficult for me, but I can average sub 15 with it with CFOP, and I'm averaging about sub 11 with White cross only


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## 5BLD (Sep 3, 2012)

pijok said:


> That is what i did with this scramble:
> 
> FB: z' U2 r2 F' U2 R' U2 x' U2 (7)
> SB: F R2 U F U' R' U' R' U L' (10)
> ...



L moves and F moves in our precious SB? I'd like to see you do this stuff in a speedsolve.

To recog Y perm is easy. If on F B L and R there is an opposite colour pattern for U corners. Otherwise T.


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## Renslay (Sep 3, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> I had to do 13 solves to get this wonderful scramble
> 
> D' L2 U D' F2 L' R' F D B D' R' U2 F D' B' F L R2 D2 L2 D' L2 F B2
> Should I learn CMLL now?



z' U2 M2 F' x' R' U R' U F' (8)
M U R' U' r U r' (7)
U' F U R U' R' U F' U' R' F' R (12)
M2 U' M U M' U' M U2 M' (9)

36 STM. Am I good?  Okay, the second block was a bit lucky...

edited: actually, in a competition, probably I'd do M2 U' M U M' *U U2* M U2 M' in a competition.


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## pijok (Sep 3, 2012)

5BLD said:


> L moves and F moves in our precious SB? I'd like to see you do this stuff in a speedsolve.


How would you do something like:
B' D2 U F' U' F D2 R' B U' (SB Scramble, SB on RD)
without using F?




Speedmaster said:


> Nice but you're CN I want to know what opposite colour neutral people would do


I'm not CN, i just use that colour all the time, which blocks do you want?


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## Renslay (Sep 3, 2012)

pijok said:


> How would you do something like:
> B' D2 U F' U' F D2 R' B U' (SB Scramble)
> without using F?



My solutions:
R U r' U' R' U' M2 U R' U' M' U2 r' U' r
or
R2 U r' U' M U' R U R U M U' M' U' R


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## waffle=ijm (Sep 3, 2012)

pijok said:


> How would you do something like:
> B' D2 U F' U' F D2 R' B U' (SB Scramble, SB on RD)
> without using F?



U' R U' Rw' U' R U R U2 Rw' U' R U' R U R' U' R

or

U2 R' U2 R' U2 Rw' U M R' U' M2 U R (NMCMLL)

or R' U Rw' U M' Rw U' R U Rw' U' R2 U M U2 M2 U R'

bunch more but wait if F or L is your block style why bother NOT using them?


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## pijok (Sep 3, 2012)

pijok said:


> B' D2 U F' U' F D2 R' B U' (SB Scramble, SB on RD)


I would do: *F' U' F* R' U R' U' R (8)
or without F: *U r U r U r U'* r2 U' M' U2 r' U' r (14)

I think F' U' F (3) is faster than U r U r U r U' (7) or something similar (I usually build a 1x2x2 first).

Between: I don't use L during I build the SB


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## TanookiTrev (Sep 3, 2012)

I was just wondering- If after corner and edge orientation you have an easy edge insert to get a U, Z or H perm do you do it or just ignore it and put the UL and UR edges in and complete the solve regularly. At the moment it's quicker for my recognition to just put the edge in and do a PLL but I thought it may be a bad habit to get into ? Thanks in advance


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## aznanimedude (Sep 3, 2012)

I don't see why not, but take my opinion with a grain of salt


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## Athefre (Sep 3, 2012)

Renslay said:


> z' U2 M2 F' x' R' U R' U F' (8)
> M U R' U' r U r' (7)


z' U2M2F'U'M'UR2U'B'R'


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## PandaCuber (Sep 3, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> And there are also some questions
> How many moves should my SB take? only the SB.



I personally dont think you should put a number on it. But less than 18 would be a good goal.


> and at your website, with CMLL,there are so many algrhitms, which should I learn?



You could learn all of them?  
There are only 42. You probably already know about 7 or more. 



> and which of them does 5BLD use  I also want to know if there's a page with the pictures of the cases, because I need to know how all of them look like, before I can learn how to recognise them.



Heres Waffos site. He puts pictures. 
If you dont like his algs, heres a database of algs for you to choose!  
5BLD uses many algs depending on the situation. I believe he knows around 90? and thats just for CMLL. 



> I've been using Roux for exactly 2 days with practising now, at the begining I was somewhere at 35+ because I wasn't used to blockbuilding..., then I was practising my blocks a lot, I was doing about 150 solves with Roux and now I'M nearly sub 20...Is this good?



Thats really good for 2 days.



> Should I learn CMLL now?



Once you feel like youre comfortably getting sub 23's, its a good idea to start working on CMLL


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## TanookiTrev (Sep 4, 2012)

What sort of move count should I be aiming for to average sub-30? Or should I just work on fluidity for now? (In an ao12 I got 34.xx but I'm still considerably inconsistent).


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## PandaCuber (Sep 4, 2012)

TanookiTrev said:


> What sort of move count should I be aiming for to average sub-30? Or should I just work on fluidity for now? (In an ao12 I got 34.xx but I'm still considerably inconsistent).



FB: Aim for 10. 
SB: Dont go for a number, but for smoothness. 
LSE: Smoothness aswell 

In total: Smoothness...lol

Dont worry toooo much on numbers right now. Just be as efficient as possible


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## Speedmaster (Sep 4, 2012)

Thank you 
And how do I recognise where to do the T perm? I know that if the corners aren't on the right place, but there are two white of them right and two yellow of them on the left, that I have to do the Y perm, and If there is an diagonal swap I have to do the T perm, but I don't know where to do the T perm, sometimes if I do the T perm, all of the corners aren't on the right place...


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## Athefre (Sep 4, 2012)

The easiest way, using the traditional recognition, is to look at the U stickers first, as you already do, and see if the two whites are connected and the two yellows are connected. If not, the whites and yellows will be diagonal.

Connected - Just continue on to looking around the sides for the two opposite stickers that need swapped.
Diagonal - Look around the sides for two opposite stickers and, assuming those two are at RFU and RUB, make sure RUB and FLU match. If they do, they need to be swapped. If not, the corners on the other side need to be swapped.


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## arcio1 (Sep 4, 2012)

pijok said:


> How would you do something like:
> B' D2 U F' U' F D2 R' B U' (SB Scramble, SB on RD)
> without using F?



R U r U r2 U2 R' U R2 M U M2 r' U' r (15 STM)


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## PandaCuber (Sep 4, 2012)

pijok said:


> How would you do something like:
> B' D2 U F' U' F D2 R' B U' (SB Scramble, SB on RD)



How id speedsolve:
U'MU2M'rU2RU'R2MUM'rUR' (15)


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## PandaCuber (Sep 4, 2012)

Concept of ColorNeutral Squares

Anything in particular you guys want me to write about?


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## Renslay (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm not sure that the second half of the CN example is correct.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 4, 2012)

Renslay said:


> I'm not sure that the second half of the CN example is correct.



Youre right. :fp

Fixed.


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## Renslay (Sep 5, 2012)

An interesting thing:

I usually get better times with Roux if I solve the cube with some completely different method before (CFOP, Petrus or even a beginner method). Solving two cubes at a time also helps a lot, my guess is because I forced to turn the cube slower (lack of pre-examining), hence there are fewer stops => better times. I just did 34.38 for two cubes - my usual average is about 17, but for two cubes I can not plan a full (or even near full) FB for each cube. They are almost like no-inspeciton solves.

The wonders of speedcubing. 

[Really-really need to concetrate on slow turning and foreseeing...]


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## Speedmaster (Sep 5, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Youre right. :fp
> 
> Fixed.



I'm not sure if it'S right now, i've tried it 5 times now and the cube was always scrambled after the second part of the FB...


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## PandaCuber (Sep 5, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> I'm not sure if it'S right now, i've tried it 5 times now and the cube was always scrambled after the second part of the FB...



its correct,


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## Speedmaster (Sep 5, 2012)

Is it important to be colour neutral with Roux? There are so many ways to do FB with two side CN so why should I be completely CN with Roux?


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## PandaCuber (Sep 6, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> Is it important to be colour neutral with Roux? There are so many ways to do FB with two side CN so why should I be completely CN with Roux?



No one is telling to be completely CN. Even most people will say, its better to have a favorite color in Roux.


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## Cool Frog (Sep 6, 2012)

I am colour neutral, and I think the biggest disadvantage is having trouble dealing with "bad" scrambles, they don't happen often, but when they do... I don't know what to do.


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## Speedmaster (Sep 6, 2012)

If I use two different bottom colours for my two blocks, will the CMLL recognition be another than normal?


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## A Leman (Sep 6, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> I am colour neutral, and I think the biggest disadvantage is having trouble dealing with "bad" scrambles, they don't happen often, but when they do... I don't know what to do.



same here.For the rare scrambles where there isn't anything good, I waste alot of inspection searching, before I just pick something and go with it.


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## Athefre (Sep 6, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> If I use two different bottom colours for my two blocks, will the CMLL recognition be another than normal?



If only opposite blocks: www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34195-Roux-Opposite-Blocks&p=686889&viewfull=1#post686889

If any bottom color for the second block: Check the NMCLL link in my sig.


----------



## Iggy (Sep 8, 2012)

Not sure if this is off-topic or not, but what method do rouxers usually use to solve big cubes? I'm seriously thinking of switching to Roux since CFOP isn't getting me anywhere.


----------



## Ickathu (Sep 8, 2012)

Iggy said:


> Not sure if this is off-topic or not, but what method do rouxers usually use to solve big cubes? I'm seriously thinking of switching to Roux since CFOP isn't getting me anywhere.



I use yau, but probably because I'm a former CFOPer
I think what some people do is modified redux. You pair up centers, and then you pair certain edges and build the first block simultaneously. That way you just have SB CMLL LSE. I think some people also use OBLBL


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## PandaCuber (Sep 8, 2012)

I use OBLBL


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## Speedmaster (Sep 8, 2012)

I love this thread <3

How do you do The Ms in LSE? I always do it with r' R, should i learn it another way? and how?


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## PandaCuber (Sep 8, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> I love this thread <3
> 
> How do you do The Ms in LSE? I always do it with r' R, should i learn it another way? and how?



Ive noticed that i tend to r' R, but i think its a bad habit. 
Since i use my right hand ring finger to M', im trying to use the same to M, but flicking the other way.



Spoiler



<3 U


----------



## Speedmaster (Sep 8, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Ive noticed that i tend to r' R, but i think its a bad habit.
> Since i use my right hand ring finger to M', im trying to use the same to M, but flicking the other way.
> 
> 
> ...



<3 <3

and what's the best/fastest way to do it?


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## PandaCuber (Sep 8, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> and what's the best/fastest way to do it?



there is no fastest way. you have to find what works best with you and stick with it. 
read this thread and try out what others do


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## AbstractAlg (Sep 9, 2012)

8.44 pb roux - cmll skip
6.42 pb cfop - ll skip

WHATTHE!!!???


----------



## Speedmaster (Sep 9, 2012)

I just wanted to watch the videos from 5BLD, but all of them are locked now.., does anybody know why?

I'm sub 20 now with Roux <3


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## PandaCuber (Sep 9, 2012)

AbstractAlg said:


> 8.44 pb roux - cmll skip
> 6.42 pb cfop - ll skip
> 
> WHATTHE!!!???



Niceeeeee


----------



## 5BLD (Sep 9, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> I just wanted to watch the videos from 5BLD, but all of them are locked now.., does anybody know why?
> 
> I'm sub 20 now with Roux <3



Yeah, there is a reason why I did that. Which ones were you thinking of watching? I am un privatising them as we speak.


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## Speedmaster (Sep 9, 2012)

I love watching all your videos, not only the Roux tutorials, all of them, because it's very interesting watching you doing some solves.

btw: how do you do your M moves and if you do different fingertricks, when do you do them?

Do you use the same algs for CMLL as Waffo uses?


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## PandaCuber (Sep 9, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Yeah, there is a reason why I did that. Which ones were you thinking of watching? I am un privatising them as we speak.



Youre always doing this. Before you went from like 30 videos to 8. 
Just keep allllll your videos. WE love em


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## cowabunga (Sep 9, 2012)

Some of the algs on Waffos site are outdated- slow. And there are also many COLL algs


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## waffle=ijm (Sep 9, 2012)

wat. outdated yes. COLLs yes. But speed depends on the user...


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## cowabunga (Sep 9, 2012)

waffle=ijm said:


> wat. outdated yes. COLLs yes. But speed depends on the user...



True
I had a lot of trouble getting fast with some of them so I had to find new ones.
Great learning site


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## Speedmaster (Sep 9, 2012)

Yes I love it, the recognition of the cases is explained so nice  thx !!


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## PandaCuber (Sep 9, 2012)

cowabunga said:


> Some of the algs on Waffos site are outdated- slow. And there are also many COLL algs



if you want new ones...


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## 5BLD (Sep 9, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> I love watching all your videos, not only the Roux tutorials, all of them, because it's very interesting watching you doing some solves.
> 
> btw: how do you do your M moves and if you do different fingertricks, when do you do them?
> 
> Do you use the same algs for CMLL as Waffo uses?



1) I have many different ways, and do them in a way that the solve flows and no need to regrip. I could elaborate but I think you can apply them from here.
2)no


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## Iggy (Sep 10, 2012)

I've been practicing Roux a lot lately and finally got a sub-20 single - 19.95! I've also been getting a lot of 20s today. Should I start learning CMLL?


----------



## Kirjava (Sep 10, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> No one is telling to be completely CN. Even most people will say, its better to have a favorite color in Roux.



Please ignore this advice and be CN if you want to.



Iggy said:


> Not sure if this is off-topic or not, but what method do rouxers usually use to solve big cubes? I'm seriously thinking of switching to Roux since CFOP isn't getting me anywhere.



There doesn't seem to be a consensus, people use normal redux with roux, meyer, roar, K4, yau or anything really.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 10, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Please ignore this advice and be CN if you want to.



Didnt you say that CN had no real advantage? From Jskylers whole CN "tutorial" thingy.


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## Kirjava (Sep 10, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Didnt you say that CN had no real advantage? From Jskylers whole CN "tutorial" thingy.



No, I never said that.

People continue to not read what I wrote and just assume what they think I mean and parrot it along attributing false information and advice to myself.


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## JasonK (Sep 10, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Didnt you say that CN had no real advantage? From Jskylers whole CN "tutorial" thingy.



Switching to colour-neutral when you're already fast on fixed-colour*


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## PandaCuber (Sep 10, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> No, I never said that.
> 
> People continue to not read what I wrote and just assume what they think I mean and parrot it along attributing false information and advice to myself.



Sorry Kirjava, I was wrong. My apologizes.


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## Kirjava (Sep 10, 2012)

np babes <3


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## arcio1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Iggy said:


> I've been practicing Roux a lot lately and finally got a sub-20 single - 19.95! I've also been getting a lot of 20s today. Should I start learning CMLL?


Definitely yes. I started learning when I reached sub19 ao5, now I have terrible recognition..


----------



## Renslay (Sep 10, 2012)

Lately, I made a 16.66 average on the Hungarian Open, with a 13.40 (non-lucky) single. Awesome!


----------



## arcio1 (Sep 13, 2012)

Could you give me any tips for CMLL recognition? Please, don't write "practise", I have done at least 1000 solves using CMLL already and recognition still takes me a few seconds. L and Pi are worst.
Btw. new PBs:
ao12: 20.26
mo100: 23.66


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## PandaCuber (Sep 13, 2012)

Look at the color patterns. 
Over time, youll be able to recognize cases in a flash.


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## Renslay (Sep 14, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> Could you give me any tips for CMLL recognition? Please, don't write "practise", I have done at least 1000 solves using CMLL already and recognition still takes me a few seconds. L and Pi are worst.



Here is my recognition system.

Case A: easy to recognise.
Case B: well-oriented corner at UBL. Look at the color pairs LUB-UFL and LUF-UFR. same-same means B1, opp-opp means B6, and every other case one of the pairs is same (or opposite) and the other pair is neutral. E.g. blue-green for LUB-UFL pair and red-blue for LUF-UFR means I need a swap on the left cubies: B5.
Case C: well-oriented corner at UFL. Color pairs to look at: LUF-UBL and LUB-UBR. Same rules as above.
Case D: well-oriented corners at UFL-UBR, also a top-side color sticker at FUR. Color pairs to look at: UFR-RUB and RFU-FLU. Same roles as above.
Case E, F, G and H are the same as Waffle's, see here:
http://wafflelikescubes.webs.com/cmllalgorithms.htm
Just as PandaCuber said, look for patterns for same/opposite/neutral color pairs on the key positions for a case. If you still need help, send a PM to me.


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## Iggy (Sep 14, 2012)

Woah, just got a 16.38 single, 2-look CMLL and LSE skip!


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## already1329 (Sep 15, 2012)

Iggy said:


> Woah, just got a 16.38 single, 2-look CMLL and LSE skip!



Congratulations.


I'm sub-20 with Roux now.

Average of 12: 17.80
16.33, 14.69, 17.61, 19.31, (22.02), 19.00, (13.06), 17.38, 16.21, 20.05, 18.96, 18.41


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## PandaCuber (Sep 15, 2012)

already1329 said:


> I'm sub-20 with Roux now.
> 
> Average of 12: 17.80
> 16.33, 14.69, 17.61, 19.31, (22.02), 19.00, (13.06), 17.38, 16.21, 20.05, 18.96, 18.41



Niceeeeeee


----------



## Tyjet66 (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm slowly learning Roux. I currently use CFOP's 2-look OLL for orienting corners, then Y-perm and T-perm for permuting them. I then use OLL 17 and 44 for orienting edges (if the edges I need to orient are on bottom, I do M2 to bring them up.) From there I solve UL/UR and then intuitively solve then last four edges. I'm just trying to get used to this method before diving into algorithms.

Does this seem like a good way to start learning? If not, what should I change? 

Also, thanks for your site, it's going to be a lot of help in the foreseeable future.


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## Ickathu (Sep 15, 2012)

Tyjet66 said:


> I'm slowly learning Roux. I currently use CFOP's 2-look OLL for orienting corners, then Y-perm and T-perm for permuting them. I then use OLL 17 and 44 for orienting edges (if the edges I need to orient are on bottom, I do M2 to bring them up.) From there I solve UL/UR and then intuitively solve then last four edges. I'm just trying to get used to this method before diving into algorithms.
> 
> Does this seem like a good way to start learning? If not, what should I change?
> 
> Also, thanks for your site, it's going to be a lot of help in the foreseeable future.



Oh gosh no. 
Firstly: for orienting corners, you know that you don't have to do EO first? Just the corners.
Secondly: CP is good (but I prefer J-perm to T-perm, but that's personal preference)
Thirdly: Orienting edges should not be done with OLLs. Once you finish corners, everything else should be solved using only M and U (and E, but that's only one case). Check out some LSE videos on youtube.


Spoiler: videos







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwH9_lCJFSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac6L6x-NEm8 (Can a mod make this one imbedded as well? Thanks)


For EP, that sounds like it's good, but watch these tutorials to see if you can do it more efficiently. I know when I first started that my LSE was really bad. I did everything slow and inefficient.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 15, 2012)

5BLDS "even shorter lse tutorial" is a really bad video for a beginner lol. 

Waffle explains LSE pretty good


Spoiler: Video


----------



## Tyjet66 (Sep 15, 2012)

I do CO -> CP -> EO -> EP. So unless I'm missing something, my order is right there. I chose those two OLLs for EO as they don't mess up the corners and I already knew them, but I'll look into better algs. 

I watched Donnovan's EP tutorial and that's pretty much how I do it, I just don't know the algs for every case. I just figure them out intuitively quite easily.

Waffle's video didn't help too much as he just seemed to state "do these three mini-algs to cycle through edges." I understand that they link to different cases, but how is the more efficient than the OLLs I'm using? It just seems to add a layer of guess work to it.

Edit: Instead of cycling from case, to case, to case, why not do the specific alg to solve the EO? Am I missing something here?


----------



## Ickathu (Sep 15, 2012)

Tyjet66 said:


> Waffle's video didn't help too much as he just seemed to state "do these three mini-algs to cycle through edges." I understand that they link to different cases, but how is the more efficient than the OLLs I'm using? It just seems to add a layer of guess work to it.
> 
> Edit: Instead of cycling from case, to case, to case, why not do the specific alg to solve the EO? Am I missing something here?



Because that's not roux.
Plus, you'll get to the point where the EO is instantaneous, almost like your executing an alg, even though you didn't learn one. I bet if we had a race, the times would be nearly the same, or the MU user might be faster even. Do an ao25 using the MU scrambler on qqtimer. Just time EO, no inspection allowed.
1.47, 0.05, 1.93, 2.59, 0.09, 2.67, 2.22, 3.69, 2.58, 2.07, 0.78, 3.69, 2.47, 1.65, 1.84, 3.71, 6.17, 2.52, 5.83, 2.63, 2.49, 2.59, 0.94, 1.25, 2.41
number of times: 25/25
best time: 0.05
worst time: 6.17

current mo3: 1.53 (σ = 0.77)
best mo3: 1.15 (σ = 0.98)

current avg5: 2.05 (σ = 0.69)
best avg5: 1.16 (σ = 0.96)

current avg12: 2.69 (σ = 1.29)
best avg12: 2.01 (σ = 1.03)

session avg: 2.29 (σ = 0.81)
session mean: 2.41

Plus, MU EO flows better with the rest of the LSE. And you can learn to force things like UL/UR skips that you can't do with OLL stuff.


I'll do an entire LSE ao25 too, but I want to let you know first that I suck at LSE. I think my times are probably about twice as high as they should be for my average, but I haven't done any LSE averages in a while, so we'll see.

7.17, 6.33, 6.74, 4.54, 7.31, 3.65, 9.80, 8.21, 6.26, 3.82, 7.78, 6.83, 7.16, 5.87, 6.63, 4.70, 8.82, 6.39, 4.48, 5.84, 5.49, 6.99, 6.52, 9.00, 6.59
number of times: 25/25
best time: 3.65
worst time: 9.80

current mo3: 7.37 (σ = 1.41)
best mo3: 5.17 (σ = 1.91)

current avg5: 6.70 (σ = 0.25)
best avg5: 5.64 (σ = 0.86)

current avg12: 6.38 (σ = 1.09)
best avg12: 6.12 (σ = 1.05)

session avg: 6.51 (σ = 1.12)
session mean: 6.52
@5bld and panda, are these LSE times good now for what I'm averaging (27)? It's better than my 9 second avgs I was getting a few months ago!




Tyjet66 said:


> I do CO -> CP -> EO -> EP. So unless I'm missing something, my order is right there.


Yeah, the order is fine. I just don't like the way you do EO.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 15, 2012)

Was that 0.05 an EO skip? 

Cycling is good for another reason: Makes lookahead easier. 
Personally, i find it incredibly difficult to track pieces while doing algs. 

Plus its not even that hard.


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## Ickathu (Sep 15, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Was that 0.05 an EO skip?
> 
> Cycling is good for another reason: Makes lookahead easier.
> Personally, i find it incredibly difficult to track pieces while doing algs.
> ...



Yeah. The 0.09 was an M' iirc

That seems really fast for M' though. It might have been skip too.


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## Tyjet66 (Sep 15, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> you'll get to the point where the EO is instantaneous, almost like your executing an alg, even though you didn't learn one.


That's all I needed to hear. I'll start working on cycling.


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## arcio1 (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks for answers 
Just did LSE ao12.
5.66, 5.77[DOTS], 7.29, 5.89, 6.14[DOTS], 4.58, 4.22, 3.32, 6.13, 5.36, 5.39, 5.11 = 5.43
Is this slow/fast/normal for my times? My mean of 100 is about 23 and yesterday I did 19.99 ao12.


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## Iggy (Sep 15, 2012)

Finally got a sub-20 avg5:
17.58, 21.88, 17.61, 19.31, 25.55 = 19.60


----------



## PandaCuber (Sep 15, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> Thanks for answers
> Just did LSE ao12.
> 5.66, 5.77[DOTS], 7.29, 5.89, 6.14[DOTS], 4.58, 4.22, 3.32, 6.13, 5.36, 5.39, 5.11 = 5.43
> Is this slow/fast/normal for my times? My mean of 100 is about 23 and yesterday I did 19.99 ao12.



Your LSE times are pretty good. You might need to work on Blocks instead.


----------



## already1329 (Sep 15, 2012)

Iggy said:


> Finally got a sub-20 avg5:
> 17.58, 21.88, 17.61, 19.31, 25.55 = 19.60



Cool.


----------



## arcio1 (Sep 15, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Your LSE times are pretty good. You might need to work on Blocks instead.


Definitely yes, but I think that my CMLL recognition needs more work.

F2B ao12:
11.58, 13.56, (10.18), 10.41, 12.75, 11.44, 13.42, 12.91, 11.11, (14.43), 13.30, 12.31 = 12.28 I think that it isn't my best, 0 sub-10s.
So 23(mo100)-12(F2B)=11 seconds for CMLL in average!


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## PandaCuber (Sep 15, 2012)

So yup, work on CMLL. Maybe learn fullcmll?


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## arcio1 (Sep 15, 2012)

I know all but sunes and anti-sunes, but I don't have time to learn them, maybe next weekend.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 15, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> I know all but sunes and anti-sunes, but I don't have time to learn them, maybe next weekend.



What do you mean you dont have time? No one is telling you to learn them all today. Just learn 1. then whenever, another. and so on.


----------



## 5BLD (Sep 15, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> I know all but sunes and anti-sunes, but I don't have time to learn them, maybe next weekend.



No time? How much time do you have?


----------



## Hunter (Sep 16, 2012)

I would like to see a video of Panda, 5BLD or Waffo doing an Ao5 with 2L-CMLL


----------



## Tyjet66 (Sep 16, 2012)

I think I'm starting to get this cycling thing down, but I want to clarify before I get any further. I'm currently attempting to get to the point where I have 4 flipped edges in DF, UF, UL, UR, and then flip those with either M' U' M' or M' U M' while looking ahead for my UL (yellow/green) and UR (yellow/blue). From there I solve as normal. This is what I've gathered from Waffle's video, I just want further confirmation.


----------



## waffle=ijm (Sep 16, 2012)

Hunter said:


> I would like to see a video of Panda, 5BLD or Waffo doing an Ao5 with 2L-CMLL



will do then...


----------



## 5BLD (Sep 16, 2012)

I will try, but it won't be fast


----------



## PandaCuber (Sep 16, 2012)

Tyjet66 said:


> I think I'm starting to get this cycling thing down, but I want to clarify before I get any further. I'm currently attempting to get to the point where I have 4 flipped edges in DF, UF, UL, UR, and then flip those with either M' U' M' or M' U M' while looking ahead for my UL (yellow/green) and UR (yellow/blue). From there I solve as normal. This is what I've gathered from Waffle's video, I just want further confirmation.



Thats called Moo. 
Yeah you can modify the alg with an U or U'.

@Hunter: I just tried it and its actually pretty awkward doing 2look when your so used to 1look.


----------



## arcio1 (Sep 16, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> Definitely yes, but I think that my CMLL recognition needs more work.
> 
> F2B ao12:
> 11.58, 13.56, (10.18), 10.41, 12.75, 11.44, 13.42, 12.91, 11.11, (14.43), 13.30, 12.31 = 12.28 I think that it isn't my best, 0 sub-10s.
> So 23(mo100)-12(F2B)=11 seconds for CMLL in average!


Lol, I'm stupid, it should be 23(mo100)-(12+5)(F2B+LSE)=6 seconds for CMLL, so it isn't THAT bad, but it still bad. Should be sub3 at this level I think.



PandaCuber said:


> What do you mean you dont have time? No one is telling you to learn them all today. Just learn 1. then whenever, another. and so on.


I don't want to do sth like this, because for example when I learn 1 sune case and then I get another sune case I will sit and try to recognise it and then realise that I don't know it and do 2-Look CMLL. It would be ridiculously slow, so I learn whole groups of algs.


5BLD said:


> No time? How much time do you have?


Not enough ;] I really have to learn things for school now.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 16, 2012)

aim for 4. 2 for CO, 2 for CP.


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## 5BLD (Sep 16, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> Not enough ;] I really have to learn things for school now.



You can stay up later.




PandaCuber said:


> @Hunter: I just tried it and its actually pretty awkward doing 2look when your so used to 1look.



This... Hunter, why do you want this? If there's a good reason I may take the time to do it.


----------



## arcio1 (Sep 16, 2012)

5BLD said:


> You can stay up later.


To learn algs? Lol xD


----------



## Endgame (Sep 16, 2012)

arcio1 said:


> To learn algs? Lol xD



results require dedication.

tru story ^


----------



## PandaCuber (Sep 16, 2012)

an epic story it was


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## Iggy (Sep 21, 2012)

Yay, finally sub 20!
19.86, 17.76, 16.88, 17.73, 16.97, 22.78, 19.25, 17.61, 22.96, 16.58, 18.99, 20.70 = 18.85

I also broke my PB average of 5 in it:
19.86, 17.76, 16.88, 17.73, 16.97 = 17.49


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## arvind1999 (Sep 21, 2012)

Its almost a month since I started Roux.
I am currently averaging Sub 25 with it. I wanted to know when I should start learning full CMLL?
Should I learn CMLL or something like COLL?


----------



## PandaCuber (Sep 21, 2012)

arvind1999 said:


> Its almost a month since I started Roux.
> I am currently averaging Sub 25 with it. I wanted to know when I should start learning full CMLL?
> Should I learn CMLL or something like COLL?



CMLL = roux
COLL = cfop/petrus


----------



## arvind1999 (Sep 21, 2012)

And when should I start learning full CMLL?


----------



## Kirjava (Sep 21, 2012)

whenever you feel like it


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## arvind1999 (Sep 21, 2012)

I am ready to start learning just now itself..Should I go ahead with it?
EDIT: An good sets of CMLL?


----------



## PandaCuber (Sep 21, 2012)

arvind1999 said:


> I am ready to start learning just now itself..Should I go ahead with it?
> EDIT: An good sets of CMLL?



If you want to learn it, learn it. Simple as that.


----------



## arvind1999 (Sep 21, 2012)

Thank you!


----------



## Renslay (Sep 21, 2012)

And select your own prefered algorithms - there is no "ultimate set", everyone prefer one algorithm over an other for a particular case.


----------



## ThomasJE (Sep 21, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> COLL = cfop/petrus



/zz


----------



## already1329 (Sep 21, 2012)

Iggy said:


> Yay, finally sub 20!
> 19.86, 17.76, 16.88, 17.73, 16.97, 22.78, 19.25, 17.61, 22.96, 16.58, 18.99, 20.70 = 18.85
> 
> I also broke my PB average of 5 in it:
> 19.86, 17.76, 16.88, 17.73, 16.97 = 17.49



Cool.


----------



## Hunter (Sep 21, 2012)

5BLD said:


> This... Hunter, why do you want this? If there's a good reason I may take the time to do it.



Basically the concept of these videos:

(Sub 20 with slow turning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uSuqqEtAW8&list=UUEyNPUx5dsZqmcqpktDelXA&index=1&feature=plcp 
(Sub 20 with beginners method) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLki-254ZKA 
(Sub 20 with Rubiks Brand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmLaBt7wenw


Just an interesting experiment. 
Don't do it if you don't want to.


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## 5BLD (Sep 21, 2012)

I'll do sub-20 really slowturning if you want as this is how I practise sometimes; 2lclll is awkward for me personally


----------



## Hunter (Sep 21, 2012)

The slow turning videos always make me sad, but I would love to watch another.


----------



## PandaCuber (Sep 22, 2012)

5BLD said:


> I'll do sub-20 really slowturning if you want as this is how I practise sometimes; 2lclll is awkward for me personally



butbutbutbut you already have a sub 15 slowturning video. or had..


----------



## already1329 (Sep 22, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> butbutbutbut you already have a sub 15 slowturning video. or had..





5BLD said:


> really slowturning



Really slow turning.


----------



## Hunter (Sep 22, 2012)

5BLD, you should update your signature with your 7.77 Ao12!


----------



## 5BLD (Sep 22, 2012)




----------



## Hunter (Sep 22, 2012)

thanks! ^


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## PandaCuber (Sep 22, 2012)

epic.


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## already1329 (Sep 23, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Yes because it's so easy for me to record solves on camera. I can just like, throw the camera up and, just do a couple solves and it'll be done easy peasy with no pressure.



You still should update your signature though. At least change it to the 7.77 average.
Also, we can't watch any of your videos in your signature (8.69 average of 12, speedBLD UWR, sub-20 with 20 methods) because they are all private.


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## 5BLD (Sep 23, 2012)

Good point. I will sort it out at some point...


----------



## arvind1999 (Sep 23, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Good point. I will sort it out at some point...



Why have you made your videos private?


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## Endgame (Sep 23, 2012)

pls thumb up for british accent


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## arvind1999 (Sep 23, 2012)

Can you make some more F2B examples?


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## 5BLD (Sep 23, 2012)

arvind1999 said:


> Can you make some more F2B examples?



Yeah sure. You've seen the ones I re-publicised?


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## arvind1999 (Sep 23, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Yeah sure. You've seen the ones I re-publicised?



In the middle of it..Crappy internet connection


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