# Pyraminx Crystal



## Stefan (Jul 25, 2008)

I got my Pyraminx Crystal and solved it a few dozen times. So far best single 4:18.16 and best average 4:57.58. I like it a lot, except it locks up all the time. The problem seems to be the sharp tips of the corner pieces, so I'm thinking about cutting them shorter. But I'm afraid they're like this for a reason and shortening them would make the puzzle unstable or so. Did anyone try this already or have other thoughts about getting rid of the lockups?


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## pjk (Jul 25, 2008)

I was actually thinking of doing the same. Perhaps one of us should take it apart to see what effect cutting the edge tips would have. Does anyone have any ideas on taking it apart?


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## Stefan (Jul 25, 2008)

It has screws.


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## MistArts (Jul 25, 2008)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xx1qQDVtN10

Take it part like that.


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## pjk (Jul 25, 2008)

Edit: Thanks for the video.

Stefan, let us know if you decide to do it and how it works out. I just lubed mine and will try messing with the screws tonight to see how it works.


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## RobinBloehm (Jul 26, 2008)

I loosened the screws of mine, but the lockups got worse, of course. If you accidentally pull an edge instead of a corner as you have to, it will pop out or cause a horrible lockup. But 'cause it is loose now, you can easily pull the corners for simple triggers. I'll stick with that for a while, we will see.
By the way, I never timed a solve, very good idea


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## Stefan (Jul 26, 2008)

Haven't done it yet, don't want to risk making it worse. But hopefully tomorrow. In the meantime I improved my records, now 3:57.40 single and 4:16.71 average.


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## pjk (Jul 27, 2008)

I adjusted mine a bit after taking it apart. I trimmed a bit a 1 corner. I think if instead of shorting the length of the corner you cut the sides in at an angle, it would avoid making the corner tips stick to each other (lockup). I shaved a couple of the sides of my corners and it made a big difference in those areas. Try identifying the corners that are locking up most, and trim them.

I took some pics of me taking it apart here.


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## masterofthebass (Jul 27, 2008)

i loosened a couple of my screws earlier, and it made hte puzzle really nice. It seems that i loosened a bit too much, and I've gotten some pops recently. As I'm typing this, my crystal is in pieces, so that I'm able to adjust the core. Before this, I didn't really have any problems with lockups, it was mainly just a tightness that I didn't really enjoy.


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## mrCage (Jul 30, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> Haven't done it yet, don't want to risk making it worse. But hopefully tomorrow. In the meantime I improved my records, now 3:57.40 single and 4:16.71 average.


 
Hi Stefan 

Congrats on awesome times. I can solve it about same speed until 7-8 edges remain. Then i struggle with setup moves for my edge 3-cycles (i do corners first as you have guessed already).

And btw. Do you (or others) have any elegant way to rotate only 2 corners?? Not like 2 corner 3-cycles in a sequence ... Yes i'm thinking a simple commutator or similar ...

Mach spass ...

- Per


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## Stefan (Jul 30, 2008)

I usually need a little over 3 minutes to solve everything but the ten edges in the last layer. Then I solve one edge at a time with about 7 moves on average, which takes a bit more than a minute. With yet another pochmann braindead method, of course.

The corner orientation, does it have to be pure, i.e., affect no pieces except those two corners? I have no solution for that at all, let alone an elegant one. But I'd like one.

Do you have good pure corner-3cycles?


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## mrCage (Jul 30, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> I usually need a little over 3 minutes to solve everything but the ten edges in the last layer. Then I solve one edge at a time with about 7 moves on average, which takes a bit more than a minute. With yet another pochmann braindead method, of course.
> 
> The corner orientation, does it have to be pure, i.e., affect no pieces except those two corners? I have no solution for that at all, let alone an elegant one. But I'd like one.
> 
> Do you have good pure corner-3cycles?


 
Haha, i have pure corner 3-cycle but it's rather long. Isolating a single corner is not a trivial task actually - as you know of course.

Btw i have pure 16 turn edge 2-flip.

More later.

- Per


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jul 30, 2008)

mrCage said:


> StefanPochmann said:
> 
> 
> > I usually need a little over 3 minutes to solve everything but the ten edges in the last layer. Then I solve one edge at a time with about 7 moves on average, which takes a bit more than a minute. With yet another pochmann braindead method, of course.
> ...



Us on #rubik use a 14 turn edge 2-flip discovered by joey.


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## Stefan (Jul 31, 2008)

Searched for a corner-orienter last night, so my current status is:

2-edges flip: 8 moves
corner-3cycle: 14 moves
2-corners rotation: 20 moves

All pure, of course.


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## mrCage (Jul 31, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> 2-edges flip: 8 moves
> 2-corners rotation: 20 moves
> corner-3cycle: 14 moves


 
Care to share?? I bet the edge 2-flip is not pure, right?? The others seem feasible I bet the 8-mover is a commutator with corner side effect, much like R' U F' - U - F U' R - U' on the (3x3x3) cube.

- Per


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## Stefan (Jul 31, 2008)

Wrong, they're all pure. I don't want to describe them as text, but maybe I'll make a video tonight and also show my solving method.


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## joey (Jul 31, 2008)

8 move seems crazy, I cannot imagine how that would work.


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## Stefan (Jul 31, 2008)

Hint: It's simple.


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## joey (Jul 31, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> Hint: It's simple.



Haha, I saw this post before it was edited. Not that it shed much light on the situation!
edit:
what about pure 3-cycle edges?


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## masterofthebass (Jul 31, 2008)

i have a pur 3 cycle edges, but it's pretty long  19 moves to be exact.

--EDIT---
4 move pure edge cycle... i'm an idiot.


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## Stefan (Jul 31, 2008)

masterofthebass said:


> 4 move pure edge cycle... i'm an idiot.


That's what I thought.


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## Kenneth (Jul 31, 2008)

I don't have a crystal but can't you transfer algs from Pyraminx to it?

A Pyraminx 8 turn edge flip is: R' L R L' B L' B' L ... two times the 4 turn edge cycle.

If you are holding it so there is a U-face and a F-face, then the tips becomes R, L, D and B = the notation I use for Pyraminx.


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## Stefan (Jul 31, 2008)

Nope......


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## joey (Jul 31, 2008)

Btw, when I said pure 3-cycle, I meant a U-perm.
I have 2 16 movers.


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## Kenneth (Jul 31, 2008)

Well, I took a chance


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## Stefan (Jul 31, 2008)

Please define "U-perm".


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## joey (Jul 31, 2008)

Umm. Edge 3-cycle that doesn't affect orientation. Edges on LL, 3 adjacent or two adjacent one opposite.


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## Stefan (Jul 31, 2008)

You do realize I should ask what you mean with "affect orientation", don't you? But alright, I'll make an exception, cut you some slack and assume I know what you mean. But I still hate people's messed up understanding of "orientation".


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## mrCage (Jul 31, 2008)

masterofthebass said:


> i have a pur 3 cycle edges, but it's pretty long  19 moves to be exact.
> 
> --EDIT---
> 4 move pure edge cycle... i'm an idiot.


 
Final hint for 2-flip and edge 3-cycle

3-cycle: replace a lower edge of the U layer (as opposite to face) in 1 turn only, then make commutator based on that

2-flip: similar hint= flip one lower edge of U layer and make a commutator.

More direct hints are hard to find

- Per


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## joey (Aug 1, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> You do realize I should ask what you mean with "affect orientation", don't you? But alright, I'll make an exception, cut you some slack and assume I know what you mean. But I still hate people's messed up understanding of "orientation".


Thanks Stefan. If I could define what I meant by "orientation" I would do, but since I don't know a good way to express it, I'll just say orientation!

Keeping the U face colour on the top and cycling 3-edge? Maybe?


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## Stefan (Aug 1, 2008)

I posted some videos:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5508


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## Stefan (Aug 1, 2008)

Got simple U-perms for Joey in 10 moves, btw. Both versions, adjacent and spread edges.


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## mrCage (Aug 1, 2008)

Hi 

I have 2 ways to flip 2 edges in 8 turns. One is a commutator built on a 3-move flip. The other is 2 4-move 3-cycles  Both of them use 2/5 turns only 

- Per

(edit)

I have 3 ways actually, the last is an obvious variation of the first one ...

(/edit)


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## pjk (Aug 1, 2008)

Per, you should post your algs or make a video.

Thanks Stefan for the vids, that was helpful.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Aug 2, 2008)

mrCage said:


> Hi
> 
> I have 2 ways to flip 2 edges in 8 turns. One is a commutator built on a 3-move flip. The other is 2 4-move 3-cycles  Both of them use 2/5 turns only
> 
> ...



So I guess you don't need mine anymore? 

EDIT: Heh, found the second one you were talking about.


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## mrCage (Aug 2, 2008)

Hi 

All those corner cycle/twist stuff is ultimatelt useless as far as speedsolving os concerned. I'm truly convinced that corner first is the way to go. And then sort out the edges with easy cycles and setups. I estimate that 2-3 minutes solves will be easily attainable with a little more practice, and lubing ... 

-Per


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## Stefan (Aug 2, 2008)

Do you mean pure corners first? Seems like waste. I always solve the corners of one layer and then insert the edges right away (just those up to five which are strictly between the corners).


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## mrCage (Aug 3, 2008)

Hi 

Yes i mean pure corners first. In most cases up to half the edges are solvable in 4/5 turn 3-cycles. Of course, as far as fewest moves is concerned that approach may still be a waste as blocks can be utilized.

Btw, Stefan i have 7/9 face turn solutions for the 2 U-perm edge cycles. I based both of them off a 5-turn variation of the basic 4-turn 3-cycle. Then very easy setup moves. You will find them easily i guess 

-Per


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## TimMc (Aug 3, 2008)

Finally figured it out 

Skewb and Skewb Ultimate to go now 

tis always satisfying to struggle with puzzles and finally solve them. Now to speedsolve :-D

Tim.


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## mrCage (Aug 3, 2008)

Hi 

I will soon post my PLL edge algs once i have made a decent diagram to show my notation. I have found that vids are simply too confusing for the pyra crystal. I will only show the 2 PLL and not any of the other algs. Really those others are nothing difficult at all. The corner algs of stefan are probably the most difficult anyone would possibly "need"

Corners first is really easy and algs for that (ignoring edges) can be found elsewhere - with the possible exception of corner twists. Many normal cube algs for them do not apply, as the crystal simply does not "wrap around" in the same manner. The approach that easily works is using monotwists and U layer positioning. This way we can achieve all the possible corner orientations easily. For those who know it this would work the same way for corner orientation as the singmaster beginner solution.

- Per


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## mrCage (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi 

See the link below for the notation in use.







U and D are opposite faces. T1 - T5 are the adjacent layers in clockwise fashion around the U layer. Similarly B1 - B5 are the adjacent layers of D in clockwise fashion.

Notation: T1++ moves T1 layer 2 steps clockwise, T1-- 2 steps counterclockwise etc.

For the first case: (adjacent edges)

1: T1- B2- (setup)
2: T5+ T2- T5++ T2+ T5++ (edge 3-cycle)
3: B2+ T1+ (unsetup)
[9 turns, 11 steps]

For the second case: (spread edges)

T1++ (setup)
T5+ T2- T5-- T2+ T5+ (edge 3-cycle)
T1-- (unsetup)
[7 turns, 10 steps]

- Per


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## Stefan (Aug 4, 2008)

That second 5-moves 3-cycle is quite nice. I easily found it last night after you made me search for it and it's pretty useful for my LL edges method I showed in my video, saving a few moves.

Gotta try your first one at home where I have the puzzle, I'm too tired to visualize it mentally.


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## Kenneth (Aug 4, 2008)

Per, why not place B1 opposite to T1, it would make it easier to remember the order of the sides then.


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## bearit (Aug 4, 2008)

god I want one of these, but I just don't have the 42 bucks on me. Congrats on the good times Stefan.


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## masterofthebass (Aug 4, 2008)

I just got a 3:38 single. I'll do an average later because I don't ahve time to right now.


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## mrCage (Aug 6, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> Per, why not place B1 opposite to T1, it would make it easier to remember the order of the sides then.


 
I did it like that to avoid showing the dodecahedron from 2 perspectives. But yes you're right, that would be less confusing i guess. I think the face names (letters) are quite good anyway. Not too intuitive but easy when you get used to it. Anyhow, the diagram was purely instructive, to make the algos absolutely clear to anyone 

- Per


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## Stefan (Aug 6, 2008)

"Adjacent U perm" can also be done in 7 turns (8 fifth turns).


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## mrCage (Aug 6, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> "Adjacent U perm" can also be done in 7 turns (8 fifth turns).


 
Hi Stefan.

Care to share? (in the same notation as mine). Or you will make me look for it ?

- Per


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## Stefan (Aug 6, 2008)

You'll find it. I'm actually shocked we haven't found it earlier. I can even parenthesize it two different meaningful ways, i.e., I have two approaches for finding it.


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## Kenneth (Dec 17, 2008)

Hey, I'm bumping an old tread... but I just recently got my crystal 

I found you got two puzzles in one here. You can take out all edges and it still works, (better than with the edges actually!) So if you "mode" your crystal like that you get something that can be treated as the 2x2x2 version of the Megaminx, a puzzle with only corners to solve. Try it =)

I did one try for a full solve, got 1:51.23 ... need more practice, my best for the whole puzzle with edges is just above 7 minutes.

NOTE: be careful to align the last turn before the next one, else you can probably kinda easily break the puzze.

If someone can take a picture of a no edge minx, please do and post it here because it looks really weird


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## masterofthebass (Dec 17, 2008)

Kenneth... the 2x2 version of the minx is just the impossiball. It already exists and has been produced by meffert's for a while.


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## DcF1337 (Dec 17, 2008)

masterofthebass said:


> Kenneth... the 2x2 version of the minx is just the impossiball. It already exists and has been produced by meffert's for a while.



I beg to differ. It's called the kilominx.

http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11392


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## TMOY (Dec 17, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> NOTE: be careful to align the last turn before the next one, else you can probably kinda easily break the puzze.


The puzzle doesn't seem that easy to break to me. The way the inner structure is conceived with misalignments you will rather get big ppps (if you force on an inner edge it will pop but not break).


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## Pedro (Dec 17, 2008)

DcF1337 said:


> masterofthebass said:
> 
> 
> > Kenneth... the 2x2 version of the minx is just the impossiball. It already exists and has been produced by meffert's for a while.
> ...



I beg do differ...

if you look at the thread (and the one he links at the beginning), you'll see that they say this puzzle is just like an impossiball, which is older, so Dan is probably right...


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## Kenneth (Dec 17, 2008)

masterofthebass said:


> Kenneth... the 2x2 version of the minx is just the impossiball. It already exists and has been produced by meffert's for a while.



OK, but, if you got a crystal you don't need to get one if you like to try it, just pick the edges out.

TMOY, ok it may pop instead, I wrote that just in case.


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