# Extensive Letter Pair List (PAO-ish + open source)



## CyanSandwich (Apr 13, 2017)

>>> Here it is <<<

(Keep in mind there will be potentially offensive words in there)

Currently, every possible letter pair other than ones starting with Y or Z (I don't use those, but it's a WIP) has at least one word. Most of them have all of: (Person), (action or adjective), (object) and many of them have several options.

I'd love for people to add their own words. But public editing is too risky, so you'll have to comment your word on the cell.

I hope this is helpful! Let me know if you have any questions.


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## SirWaffle (Apr 13, 2017)

Awesome!! I'll add some of my words


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## pinser (Apr 13, 2017)

This is a great idea. I think there should be a huge database of letter pairs, something like algdb.net but for letter pairs. 
It would be super helpful for a lot of people, I know that I and many others have used Chris Hardwick's list extensively. 
I agree that public editing is too risky, but commenting is impractical, maybe there's some other way to do this?


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## JustinTimeCuber (Apr 13, 2017)

Outraged that (H)Yuge wasn't included for HY.


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## CyanSandwich (Apr 13, 2017)

pinser said:


> This is a great idea. I think there should be a huge database of letter pairs, something like algdb.net but for letter pairs.
> It would be super helpful for a lot of people, I know that I and many others have used Chris Hardwick's list extensively.
> I agree that public editing is too risky, but commenting is impractical, maybe there's some other way to do this?


I agree that a database like algdb would be perfect. But I lack the web development skills.

Commenting will have to do, until I or someone else comes up with a better idea.
I'll add words and remove comments as they come.


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 13, 2017)

Nice! this is super awesome because i've just starting finishing execution optimization and now i'm working on memo 

One smallish problem tho is that some images can fit for many different letter pairs (like rubiks cube can be RB, RC, CB, or RU)
I guess it doesn't really matter tho


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## CyanSandwich (Apr 13, 2017)

SirWaffle said:


> Awesome!! I'll add some of my words


Thanks for the additions so far 
Request access and I'll grant it.


JustinTimeCuber said:


> Outraged that (H)Yuge wasn't included for HY.


Amended. 


Daniel Lin said:


> Nice! this is super awesome because i've just starting finishing execution optimization and now i'm working on memo
> 
> One smallish problem tho is that some images can fit for many different letter pairs (like rubiks cube can be RB, RC, CB, or RU)
> I guess it doesn't really matter tho


That's a bit of a problem, inherent to the whole idea of letter pairs I guess.
it just means you'll have to decide which words you want to use for which pair.

If anyone wants access to edit, request it on the sheet. I'll add people I know and/or trust.


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## SirWaffle (Apr 13, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> Thanks for the additions so far
> Request access and I'll grant it.


Happy to help 
Oh my i feel so special  haha


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 13, 2017)

ok 1 more question

does this list include locations?


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## CyanSandwich (Apr 13, 2017)

Daniel Lin said:


> ok 1 more question
> 
> does this list include locations?


I didn't have any locations before I shared it, but there are a few now. For the purposes of this list, they fall under objects.

Also you can edit now, no need to comment.


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 13, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> I didn't have any locations before I shared it, but there are a few now. For the purposes of this list, they fall under objects.


aite. Do you not usually not use locations when you're doing bigBLD/multi?



CyanSandwich said:


> Also you can edit now, no need to comment.


Ok. I already finished adding all my (non-personal) images on there tho


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## CyanSandwich (Apr 13, 2017)

Daniel Lin said:


> aite. Do you not usually not use locations when you're doing bigBLD/multi?


Nah. It seems a bit strange to me to put locations into locations if you use the journey method.

Although this got me thinking about an absurd way to condense edges into 1 image.
Location, person, action, adverb, verb, object
HW PK VI JB TQ AB
In Hawaii Pikachu Violently Jabs a Turquoise Abacus


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## FastCubeMaster (Apr 13, 2017)

I'm really looking forward to use some of these! Thanks


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## pinser (Apr 13, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> I agree that a database like algdb would be perfect. But I lack the web development skills.
> 
> Commenting will have to do, until I or someone else comes up with a better idea.
> I'll add words and remove comments as they come.


Edit access requested 
I'll add my full letter pairs list. 
I've also wanted to make an algdb.net but for comms, it would be easier than switching back and forth from different people's lists like I've been doing.


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## TDM (Apr 13, 2017)

Added some of mine for y/z, though I've not included personal ones which other people won't find helful.



Daniel Lin said:


> like rubiks cube can be RB, RC, CB, or RU


Wow, I've never thought about this, but I've never actually used Rubik's Cube as an image before.


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## mark49152 (Apr 13, 2017)

TDM said:


> Wow, I've never thought about this, but I've never actually used Rubik's Cube as an image before.


I use QB. And AO is Aosu. And QJ is a pyraminx.


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## lucarubik (Apr 13, 2017)

i love pokemon in letter pair lists work great, i use unfezant for UZ, but pokemon moves is next level lol
I use rubik cube for Z H/CH (zanchi), one of the lots of 2011 letter pairs i couldnt forget, i just remembered when i saw the stickers
its pretty helpfull to you know knowing some other langauge's memes, some of my words are english
I use Jeff from my name is jeff for Y/LL F, classic


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## newtonbase (Apr 13, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> If anyone wants access to edit, request it on the sheet. I'll add people I know and/or trust.


I can't work out how to request this through the app. Do I have to access it through a desktop?



mark49152 said:


> I use QB. And AO is Aosu. And QJ is a pyraminx.



QJ is a cube for me. 



lucarubik said:


> i love pokemon in letter pair lists work great, i use unfezant for UZ, but pokemon moves is next level lol


I found a list on Anki that was full of Pokemon. They used flaming Pokemon for parity IIRC.


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## Roman (Apr 13, 2017)

That's cool. Collective letter-pair images list is an old idea and this is probably the best implementation so far.
Also, just about time to mention this: http://bestsiteever.ru/letterpairs/


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## h2f (Apr 13, 2017)

Awsome idea. Although my letter pair list is in my native language it's very helpfull.


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## newtonbase (Apr 13, 2017)

I really like this but I wish they would extend it to include fictional characters. 
http://peoplebyinitials.com


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## CyanSandwich (Apr 13, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I can't work out how to request this through the app. Do I have to access it through a desktop?


No idea how it works on mobile. On a desktop you can click on the "comment only" at the top left and request edit access.



newtonbase said:


> I really like this but I wish they would extend it to include fictional characters.
> http://peoplebyinitials.com


That's what I was wishing the whole time I made my list.

Here are some other useful resources:
http://www.morewords.com/
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokémon_by_name
http://nounsstarting.com/
http://verbs1.com/
http://adjectivesstarting.com/

I also looked up lists of characters from big shows (like the simpsons)


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## newtonbase (Apr 14, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> No idea how it works on mobile. On a desktop you can click on the "comment only" at the top left and request edit access.
> 
> 
> That's what I was wishing the whole time I made my list.
> ...


I'm beginning to wish that I knew more than 1 Pokemon.


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## CyanSandwich (Apr 14, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I'm beginning to wish that I knew more than 1 Pokemon.


It helps to be familiar with the word you're using, but it's not necessary.

I use a few pokemon and people/characters I'd never heard of.


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## newtonbase (Apr 14, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> It helps to be familiar with the word you're using, but it's not necessary.
> 
> I use a few pokemon and people/characters I'd never heard of.


I will occasionally use a famous person I don't know well but I'll still have an image of them even if it's inaccurate. I find that we tend to have good images for fictional characters so it would be great to have a version of peoplebyinitials.com for that. I emailed them last night.


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## Roman (Apr 14, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> That's a bit of a problem, inherent to the whole idea of letter pairs I guess.



That's why I am using a deterministic approach when encoding letter-pairs with words and vice versa. In my images table, it's always first and third letters in a word that matters, with very rare exceptions. I guess the encoding system is very language-specific. For Russian, it's generally easy to find words using first-third rule, as all words are more or less equally spreaded relative to different 1st-3rd letters.


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## CyanSandwich (Apr 14, 2017)

Roman said:


> That's why I am using a deterministic approach when encoding letter-pairs with words and vice versa. In my images table, it's always first and third letters in a word that matters, with very rare exceptions. I guess the encoding system is very language-specific. For Russian, it's generally easy to find words using first-third rule, as all words are more or less equally spreaded relative to different 1st-3rd letters.


That's a good idea. But there are some letters in English that you really can't do that with.
For Q, I struggled to find usable words that were even remotely related to the letter pair.

Still, I think the only difference it makes is how hard it is to learn your pairs. Once you know them all and use them regularly, it doesn't matter if "KQ = puppy" because it will be an automatic association in your head.


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## newtonbase (Apr 14, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> That's a good idea. But there are some letters in English that you really can't do that with.
> For Q, I struggled to find usable words that were even remotely related to the letter pair.
> 
> Still, I think the only difference it makes is how hard it is to learn your pairs. Once you know them all and use them regularly, it doesn't matter if "KQ = puppy" because it will be an automatic association in your head.


When learning audio I used TH for Q and I now use it in images too. I also use SH for X and NG for H (at the end of a word). It gives more options.


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## pglewis (Apr 15, 2017)

This is awesome! I haven't worked on 3bld in months but I was surprised how important a ready-to-go list is vs. trying to make things up on the fly. Bookmarked and I may have a few to contribute from my sheet once I get around to taking a good look.


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## mark49152 (Apr 15, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> Still, I think the only difference it makes is how hard it is to learn your pairs. Once you know them all and use them regularly, it doesn't matter if "KQ = puppy" because it will be an automatic association in your head.


Yeah I totally agree with this. As long as the association is strong, in the end it doesn't matter how logically or systematically it was arrived at. It's also important that the images are distinct so they are less likely to get mixed up.


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## FastCubeMaster (Apr 15, 2017)

Or you could just trade out Q or any other hard letter with either a remaining letter of the alphabet or a buffer letter, you'd just have to do a couple of solves to get used to it


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 15, 2017)

ok what about ideas?
those count as objects right?

ex: xenophobia for XB


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## lucarubik (Apr 15, 2017)

ussing speffz is a pain, my language has 29 letters, im not ussing the first 23, im ussing all, QB is kebab for me
*oh woops XB is fabrik for me, a night club, F and X are the same sticker, but honestly i only use F, they are not alike but both are pretty uncommon


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## pinser (Apr 15, 2017)

lucarubik said:


> ussing speffz is a pain, my language has 29 letters, im not ussing the first 23, im ussing all, QB is kebab for me


So you assign multiple letters to a sticker?

Also, I noticed that there's an option for double letters (eg-JJ). When do people ever use two of the same letter? I know I never do.


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## lucarubik (Apr 15, 2017)

pinser said:


> So you assign multiple letters to a sticker?


v/w q/k f/x n/ñ y/ll j/g and h/ch, so VQ is wookie for me, from star wars
drowings from tv shows and stuff are way better becouse you know they are not human, they have this drowing style, this colors, they are way more unique, best options imo, i use pokemon and league of legends characters with great success


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## newtonbase (Apr 15, 2017)

pinser said:


> So you assign multiple letters to a sticker?
> 
> Also, I noticed that there's an option for double letters (eg-JJ). When do people ever use two of the same letter? I know I never do.


I use them for edge flips.


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## pinser (Apr 15, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I use them for edge flips.


Why not just use the other letter for that piece? That way you can reuse your corner image pairs instead of coming up with a new word. For example, UB is C and BU is G, so I memo an UB flip with CG or GC instead of CC or GG


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## newtonbase (Apr 15, 2017)

pinser said:


> Why not just use the other letter for that piece? That way you can reuse your corner image pairs instead of coming up with a new word. For example, UB is C and BU is G, so I memo an UB flip with CG or GC instead of CC or GG


It makes it easier to recall it as a flip so there's no risk of trying to solve each letter by accident.


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## lucarubik (Apr 15, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> It makes it easier to recall it as a flip so there's no risk of trying to solve each letter by accident.


ure gonna get used to it anyway, if its single bld you better memo visually, if its multi bld you dont need to make it easier to recall, just take two extra seconds till you get used to it, so not really a good idea, when i have R as last corner and R as first edge I just picture a big capital R, just couse im too lazy to make letter pairs for only those particular cases, also if i did 4 or 5 bld (first i wouldh ave to buy a 4x or a 5x) i would use numbers for that new stickers, negative for one direction positive for the other, since all my letters are already in use


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## newtonbase (Apr 15, 2017)

lucarubik said:


> ure gonna get used to it anyway, if its single bld you better memo visually, if its multi bld you dont need to make it easier to recall, just take two extra seconds till you get used to it, so not really a good idea, when i have R as last corner and R as first edge I just picture a big capital R, just couse im too lazy to make letter pairs for only those particular cases, also if i did 4 or 5 bld (first i wouldh ave to buy a 4x or a 5x) i would use numbers for that new stickers, negative for one direction positive for the other, since all my letters are already in use


I memo corners and edges completely separately and if I have a single letter I use a superhero.


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## Roman (Apr 15, 2017)

pinser said:


> When do people ever use two of the same letter?


when the cycle ends up with just one letter, but you still need two to make a word.


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## Gregory Alekseev (Apr 17, 2017)

Will you use it in your memo? I am wondering how will the memo time decrease with PAO.


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## CyanSandwich (Apr 17, 2017)

Gregory Alekseev said:


> Will you use it in your memo? I am wondering how will the memo time decrease with PAO.


So far it's slower. I need more practice, but I think in the end it'll be best to use it like 50% of the time.
Some sequences just aren't good for PAO, and sometimes it'll be too similar to another image you had earlier in the cube or the multi.


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## mark49152 (Apr 18, 2017)

pinser said:


> Also, I noticed that there's an option for double letters (eg-JJ). When do people ever use two of the same letter? I know I never do.


For M2, I swap my M slice even targets during memo. So UF DB would be CC if UF is odd. Similar for WW, I I, SS.


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## Blindsighted (Apr 24, 2017)

Roman said:


> That's cool. Collective letter-pair images list is an old idea and this is probably the best implementation so far.
> Also, just about time to mention this: http://bestsiteever.ru/letterpairs/


Wow, this is what I've been looking for!


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## Hazel (Apr 30, 2017)

This is really helpful, but how do I remember all of these??


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## newtonbase (Apr 30, 2017)

Aerma said:


> This is really helpful, but how do I remember all of these??


If it's a good pair you'll remember it. If not, find something better.


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## mark49152 (Apr 30, 2017)

Aerma said:


> This is really helpful, but how do I remember all of these??


Time and practice. Just like OLL it looks daunting at first, but you will get there in the end.


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## lucarubik (Apr 30, 2017)

Aerma said:


> This is really helpful, but how do I remember all of these??


you dont use this, you use your own, you use this later to complete or improve


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## Roman (Apr 30, 2017)

Aerma said:


> This is really helpful, but how do I remember all of these??


using Anki, of course


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