# improving f2l



## crazyhippo (Oct 16, 2007)

ok, so.. i just started learning f2l a few weeks ago... and i just wanna know what ppl have to say about getting faster... apart from just practise, cos i already know that.. and also, i want to start learning some of the algorithms, cos right now im kinda just using logic to do it, but i dunno what algorithms i would mostly need and where i should start... so, anybody know a site with just the basic algorithms or somethin??


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## Foxpapa (Oct 16, 2007)

I think most of learning algorithms it's important understanding


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## chue.hsien (Oct 16, 2007)

use logic to do the f2l cases. only those pairs that take u long to insert, then u search for the algos, i.e those with >10 moves.


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## blindfold cube (Oct 16, 2007)

crazyhippo said:


> ok, so.. i just started learning f2l a few weeks ago... and i just wanna know what ppl have to say about getting faster... apart from just practise, cos i already know that.. and also, i want to start learning some of the algorithms, cos right now im kinda just using logic to do it, but i dunno what algorithms i would mostly need and where i should start... so, anybody know a site with just the basic algorithms or somethin??



You already know that you need to practice. That is the only thing that can help you get faster at the F2L. If you want you can use a metronom- http://www.metronomeonline.com/ . For every one beat make one twist.

Next time please use the search function. This question has been asked a numorus amount of times.


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## aznfury (Oct 17, 2007)

You have to look ahead, learn intuitive and sove f2l algorithms,and lube your cube every 1,2, or 3 months.


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## clincher (Oct 17, 2007)

OMG you guys have to put a really big sign in the index forum that says SEARCH BEFORE YOU ASK!


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## crazyhippo (Oct 17, 2007)

clincher said:


> OMG you guys have to put a really big sign in the index forum that says SEARCH BEFORE YOU ASK!



for goodness sake, ive already searched, and havent found good responses to my situation!! you guys think im stupid or somethin?!?!


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## TimMc (Oct 17, 2007)

crazyhippo said:


> clincher said:
> 
> 
> > OMG you guys have to put a really big sign in the index forum that says SEARCH BEFORE YOU ASK!
> ...



Prolly. Your questions can be answered by visiting lar5.com/cube/ or cubestation.co.uk and whatnot


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## AvGalen (Oct 17, 2007)

If I do a search for "improve F2L" I get 14 hits from this month alone!

If you think that a search for algorithms wouldn't give you any good results you are severely underestimating this forum!

P.S. http://www.speedcubing.com/algorithms.html for your basic needs, http://www.speedcubing.com/links.html for the rest.


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## jeff081692 (Oct 17, 2007)

I think you should get a site with the basic cases then set each one up and count how many moves it takes to get it and compare with the alg on the site. If there is a big difference you should think about changing your algorithm unless it is finger trick friendly. I suggest going to cubeloop because they have set up algorithms for each case.

And all the above is pointless if you don't practice. I know people don't want that kind of answer but its really the only way to get good at anything. For example when I started speedcubing even though I knew the algorithms they were nothing if I couldn't recognize it. Through time I eventually got very good at seeing pairs and then i developed my own algs to place them in their slots. I could go on but I think i typed too much already. Hope that helps.


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## crazyhippo (Oct 18, 2007)

thankyou to the ppl that actually try to help, instead of just dissing me.. and for those who only feel content with telling me basically how stupid i am... I.JOINED.TWO.DAYS.AGO. do u really expect me to make posts and do everything the way you like it and the way you're used to?!


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## Johannes91 (Oct 18, 2007)

crazyhippo said:


> I.JOINED.TWO.DAYS.AGO. do u really expect me to make posts and do everything the way you like it and the way you're used to?!


That's lame.



> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html
> - Read both mailing lists and newsgroups for one to two months before you post anything. This helps you to get an understanding of the culture of the group.


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## chue.hsien (Oct 18, 2007)

hey, theres no need to get ****ed lols. everyone's juz trying to improve.. though the search button helps  juz take it as a lesson haha.


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## AvGalen (Oct 18, 2007)

> thankyou to the ppl that actually try to help, instead of just dissing me


 
I hope you don't consider my post as "just dissing you". You pointed out that you know how to use the search button and I replied by pointing out that your question was easily answered by using the search button.

A lot of people have put a lot of time into previous posts that answer your questions. You should respect those people a little more because they put in that time for people like you that have questions.

This is what you should have done:
Start at the homepage
Click on Beginners Central
Read the first sticky: Introduction to Speedcubing for Beginners, especially this part:


> *How can I solve the F2L quickly with the Fridrich system/method?
> 
> *Erik A. did a nice video on how he does the F2L slowly, check it out here, it should help:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbKvOXE__CM
> ...


Read the third sticky: Forum Rules


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## crazyhippo (Oct 20, 2007)

Fine!!! I'll Just Stop Replying And Get Out Of Here So All You Ppl Can Stop Getting Annoyed At My Fckin Stupidity!! Happy Now?!


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## clincher (Oct 20, 2007)

crazyhippo said:


> Fine!!! I'll Just Stop Replying And Get Out Of Here So All You Ppl Can Stop Getting Annoyed At My Fckin Stupidity!! Happy Now?!



ehhh no...


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## TimMc (Oct 20, 2007)

Best way is to probably take the focus of the conversation of the topic of "searching" and "Being new" and just forcing discussion related to the original question down their throats as I'm sure such questions will get answered over and over in different ways to suit different people


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## blindfold cube (Oct 20, 2007)

crazyhippo said:


> Fine!!! I'll Just Stop Replying And Get Out Of Here So All You Ppl Can Stop Getting Annoyed At My Fckin Stupidity!! Happy Now?!



No one ever said you were stupid. All we are saying is try searching for your topic before you post. For one, when someone posts questions that have already been answered it becomes annoying for the people who have already answered the question to answer it again. Two, if you post something you might have to wait some time for other people to reply the answer your looking for. This doesn't help you crazyhippo, because you can get most answers quickly by searching instead of waiting for people to reply. Can you agree?


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## AlexandertheGreat (Oct 20, 2007)

blindfold cube said:


> crazyhippo said:
> 
> 
> > Fine!!! I'll Just Stop Replying And Get Out Of Here So All You Ppl Can Stop Getting Annoyed At My Fckin Stupidity!! Happy Now?!
> ...



I agree with you.


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## AvGalen (Oct 20, 2007)

> Fine!!! I'll Just Stop Replying And Get Out Of Here So All You Ppl Can Stop Getting Annoyed At My Fckin Stupidity!! Happy Now?!


 
I don't mind getting annoyed by questions and I definately don't want you to stop enjoying this forum. I just want to give you some tips so you will enjoy this forum more. There is so much information that you can benefit from. I wanted to point out how you could get it. Sorry if that came at you as a personal attack, it wasn't meant that way.


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## ExoCorsair (Oct 20, 2007)

Alright, a couple things.

First off, crazyhippo, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and will assume that you have not been reading this forum much before posting. Your first post could definitely have been written much more cohesively, since this is a forum and not a chatroom. Searching isn't necessary, but it does help you find threads that are pertinent to your problem; however, I realize that there are 300 threads on the topic and the stickies are also buried in there as well. Moreover, try not to spout tantrums like your second and fourth posts, please. They don't do anything constructive towards the discussion and just make others less inclined to help you.

As for everyone else, if you're going to post something, please make it relevant to the topic and not simply "search for it" without at least providing an example of what a search will bring. Thank you to those who have been providing help.


Back on topic, here are a couple of links that will help you:
http://www.speedcubing.com/f2l.html
http://www.cubefreak.net/F2L.html
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~leyanlo/f2l.html


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## crazyhippo (Oct 21, 2007)

ok, fine, i guess i shouldnt have lost my temper last time i posted. im sorry to the people that i might have annoyed or offended... so, can we just get back to the topic now?? but i guess nobody wants to help me now...? 

maybe forums just arent the place for me to be


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## AvGalen (Oct 21, 2007)

> but i guess nobody wants to help me now...?


 
We have already helped you a lot. You have been pointed at several topics on this forum and also on other sites that have F2L-sections.

Maybe you should tell us something about you?
How fast are you now?
Which cases give you trouble?
How long have you been cubing?


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## crazyhippo (Oct 21, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> > but i guess nobody wants to help me now...?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yeh, and thx for being patient with me, cos i know i sound like a n00b a lot of the time... but anyway, ive been cubing for around 5 months, and dont seem to be getting anywhere past the 50sec mark... which is why i started learning F2L. im kinda having trouble spotting the peices quickly, though... how do you guys do it quickly?


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## chue.hsien (Oct 21, 2007)

are u able to spot the next edge piece when insert another edge piece using your layer by layer method? maybe u could give us a breakdown of your times. after cubing for 5 months your first 2 layers without using fridrich should be quite decent.


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## ExoCorsair (Oct 21, 2007)

crazyhippo said:


> yeh, and thx for being patient with me, cos i know i sound like a n00b a lot of the time... but anyway, ive been cubing for around 5 months, and dont seem to be getting anywhere past the 50sec mark... which is why i started learning F2L. im kinda having trouble spotting the peices quickly, though... how do you guys do it quickly?



The main way of getting really fast at F2L is just not pausing between F2L pairs, which, of course, takes practice. But you could easily get to the 30-40 second range by simply fingertricking and otherwise moving quickly during F2L.

How's your last layer?


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## blindfold cube (Oct 21, 2007)

crazyhippo said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > > but i guess nobody wants to help me now...?
> ...



The thing that sucks about the F2L is that the only way to get faster is to practice. I recommend you use a metronome- http://www.metronomeonline.com/

For every beep you make one turn. This will help you to look ahead instead of rushing. If you miss a beep start over. That is the only thing that can help you. I am assuming you are using intuitive F2L, not the LBL.

How fast are you on the cross and the PLL? Do you know all 21 PLLs?


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## Lt-UnReaL (Oct 22, 2007)

The sounds on those things are so annoying...


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## chue.hsien (Oct 22, 2007)

yeah agreed.. but cubing requires disciplined training =D at least those that intend to get fast.


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## adragast (Oct 22, 2007)

Hello ! There is not much to add to advice already given to you by other people here. Basically, I would suggest you to solve the cube slowly but smoothly (again, the metronome is a good excercise). You really need to see the next pair while you are solving one pair. Learning all PLL can also be a good idea (I don't know if you already know them).
Here are two videos that you may want to see (one very instructive about F2L and one showing an example of smooth solve):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbKvOXE__CM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TvBPg8NkaM


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## crazyhippo (Oct 22, 2007)

chue.hsien said:


> are u able to spot the next edge piece when insert another edge piece using your layer by layer method? maybe u could give us a breakdown of your times. after cubing for 5 months your first 2 layers without using fridrich should be quite decent.



yeh, i could spot the edge pieces quickly with my layer by layer method, i just cant do it quickly when i have to spot both the corner piece and the right edge piece. right now, my F2L alone takes around 30-40 secs... but using my layer by layer method, i think i could do the first two layers in around 20 secs, maybe... im not sure, cos ive never timed my F2L alone, really.


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## yish (Oct 22, 2007)

ok, i am not sure how you people get about doing about f2l, the alg is important, but i feel that the delay is more important.

let's see, let's consider each f2l a stage. so there are 4 f2ls to insert, 4 stages altogether. if you people stop to stare and try to spot each stage, for like say 1 second. that will be 4 seconds eaten up altogether, plus plus plus, you break your rhythm.

so my method of f2l focuses mainly on cutting down delays and complication. I do this by spinning the R and U face.

ok when i do my f2l, my cross (always white) is on the bottom. the pieces i want to insert are on the U face (aka the playing field)

so as you turn the cube R and U, it is rather simple to spot the white pieces as they are blatantly obvious. take note of which white pieces are on the U face. memorize them. this should be done while forming your cross.

when doing my first f2l, i spin just the R and U faces (less complicated.) i scan the edge pieces and try to search for corresponding edge pieces. say i spotted a red, blue, white piece earlier on the U face. now i try to see, is there a red and blue edge piece hanging around at the U face too?

if there is. congrats. solve it. unless there is an easier f2l pair hanging around waiting to be solved.

if there isn't. for starters, whine a bit about getting a bad f2l.

then you scan the U face quickly (this should all be done during your first f2l). very quickly in fact. check which edge pieces are there. say orange and green. so try to recall. is there any orange, green, white pieces around? like stuck on the D face? then extract it out, slam it in with that edge piece. tada.

so in short. while you are doing your cross. observe which white pieces (if your cross is white) are where. just a quick scan and memorization of 2 or 3 will do.

as you do your first f2l. try to scan the edge pieces and then pair it up with the corresponding corner piece. try to do the easiest pair first.

rinse and repeat. with each f2l that you do, you turn U and R, observe, which pieces go on the U field? where is the corresponding piece? as you solve more f2ls, there is less to scan, less pieces to memorize. so it gets easier along the way.

and as you do the last f2l, observe. (this requires experience for my case), where will the yellow pieces go? will it form a cross? a L? a bar? so when you move on to OLL, you have a rough idea of what it is. so there is less delay.

that is my method of doing f2l. ><


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## crazyhippo (Oct 22, 2007)

> How fast are you on the cross and the PLL? Do you know all 21 PLLs?



my cross is pretty slow, i think, i suck at inspecting the cube beforehand, cos i can never see the whole cross when i inspect! and i dont do PLL the fridrich way yet, i still do it my old layer by layer way, which is pretty slow as well, i guess.


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## masterofthebass (Oct 22, 2007)

I'm not sure about how slow the old LBL LL is. I can average around 27 with F2L and LBL LL. I guess it's like 9 seconds slower, but with better recognition it could be faster. Definantly work on the cross. Dan Harris's site has a great tutorial for picking out the cross during the inspection.


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