# Proposal: More delegates more competitions



## giorgi (May 20, 2015)

So as the title says I am just interested why WCA has few delegates and why WCA does not give more responsible people who leave far from competitions chance to become delegates and organise competitions for the local cubers. This way speedcubing will expand and local speedcubers will have more chances and courage to go to competitions. Some people who leave far from competitions will say"Oh I am too slow and whats the point of me going to competitions which are too far from my house" this is Why we should make more people delegates in different regions of the country spreaded equally to make for speedcubers going to competitions more accessible. I mean it is not gonna be hard if some not too experienced people take more responsibility and run local competitions with not too many people competing as there are few cubers at that area. Here you can discuss if we should have More delegates in order to have more competitions. If you don't agree Please say reasons why you are not agreeing.


----------



## Coolster01 (May 20, 2015)

I really agree. Many people have all the regulation knowledge and maturity to be in charge of competitions.


----------



## MrMan (May 20, 2015)

There's only two left in France... So yeah I agree !


----------



## Mollerz (May 20, 2015)

New delegates are being suggested and appointed all the time, the amount of delegates there are today as there were 2 years ago is significantly different. The problem is, we can't pick just anyone to be delegates. There is a standard that needs to be met. When there are competitions that happen in a location that lack a delegate, we do look at anyone with potential and we recommend them to the board. However, sometimes that just is not the case, and there is nobody we feel could stand up to the task.

In regards to Scotland, both myself and Daniel can get there with relative ease, the problem is the lack of _organisers_ in that location. If there are people who live in this area who want to organise a competition, we will absolutely come up north and delegate it for you guys. I can't say the same for other locations however. Obviously there will be places that lack delegates, and they will have to travel quite a distance to get there, and like I said, delegates who attend those competitions will look for people who have potential to become a delegate. But this is not needed when there are delegates who can already cover these locations.


----------



## kinch2002 (May 20, 2015)

Generally just wanted to say what Mollerz did.
Indeed there's no point having delegates if there are no organisers. If the prospective delegate is in the area, then he should already be organising, assuming he can get a current delegate to attend. And if he can get a current delegate to attend, there's no need for another delegate 
The situation in which another delegate would be deemed necessary is when people want to organise (and are suitable candidates to be organisers), and no delegates can attend.

Relating to you specifically...
A couple of a years ago there weren't really any people suitable to organise in Scotland. Now I believe there are more, so hopefully more comps can happen. As James said, one of us can travel up, and if we are not able to then indeed that gives a good case towards appointing a delegate if a suitable one is found.

On the topic of suitability of delegates, have a look at my video 

EDIT: If you want more comps in Scotland, then talk to Breandan and Simon. Alternatively, you may be ready to organise one yourself, now that you're a bit older and have attended several competitions


----------



## tseitsei (May 20, 2015)

Mollerz said:


> New delegates are being suggested and appointed all the time, the amount of delegates there are today as there were 2 years ago is significantly different. The problem is, we can't pick just anyone to be delegates. There is a standard that needs to be met. When there are competitions that happen in a location that lack a delegate, we do look at anyone with potential and we recommend them to the board. However, sometimes that just is not the case, and there is nobody we feel could stand up to the task.
> 
> In regards to Scotland, both myself and Daniel can get there with relative ease, the problem is the lack of _organisers_ in that location. If there are people who live in this area who want to organise a competition, we will absolutely come up north and delegate it for you guys. I can't say the same for other locations however. Obviously there will be places that lack delegates, and they will have to travel quite a distance to get there, and like I said, delegates who attend those competitions will look for people who have potential to become a delegate. But this is not needed when there are delegates who can already cover these locations.



+1

Delegates need to be very trustworthy responsible and experienced people so we can't just add more and more delegates if there are no good enough candidates...


----------



## AlphaSheep (May 20, 2015)

Hmmm... Africa needs more delegates. The rest of the world seems to be doing just fine. Actually, Africa needs more cubers first, but we're making progress with that.


----------



## AlexMaass (May 20, 2015)

I have to agree with this ofc, but we have to make sure we just don't appoint random people as delegates. We also need more people to step up and take initiative, e.g helping out at competitions, maybe try organizing a competition etc. 


AlphaSheep said:


> Hmmm... Africa needs more delegates. The rest of the world seems to be doing just fine. Actually, Africa needs more cubers first, but we're making progress with that.


I think Donovan Hale is enough for now. btw not all of the rest of the world is doing just fine with competition availability


----------



## AlphaSheep (May 20, 2015)

AlexMaass said:


> I think Donovan Hale is enough for now. btw not all of the rest of the world is doing just fine with competition availability


Yeah, I agree with you. I was just commenting at how unbalanced the list of delegates on the WCA site looks, but it really only reflects interest in each area. Donny is a great delegate, and from the competitions I've been to, I think he does a pretty good job. With a competition only every 2-3 months, there's not really that much need for a second delegate yet. It's not like Europe or North America where there are 3 or 4 competitions every week.

The main problem we face is exactly the same problem everywhere faces, that you and Mollerz have already mentioned - the competitions only happen where people step up and organise them.


----------



## Dene (May 20, 2015)

Once again someone conflates the role of delegate with the role of competition organiser. These are two separate things. As far as I'm aware we have enough delegates (supply) to meet the number of competitions (demand). 

If there is a location where many competitions are rejected because of a lack of delegates, that area is being poorly managed. But I doubt there are any major issues. I can imagine a lot of kids (especially Americans) will respond with comments like "I had my competition rejected", but then they probably just went to another competition on the same weekend down the road... The WCA actively discourages having competitions week after week in the same area, so you can't expect a competition every weekend nearby.


----------



## Chree (May 20, 2015)

Dene said:


> As far as I'm aware we have enough delegates (supply) to meet the number of competitions (demand).



The problem is that if there are no delegates in a specific region, how would you ever know what the demand is?

Just as an example, the US Pacific Northwest had a demand that cleary outstripped our supply of competitions. We've averaged about 2 competitions per year since 2010. I'm using past-tense verbage here because A) our delegate is between travelling trips for work, so Seattle will have 2 competitions this summer as opposed to its usual 1 and B) Kit Clement is on his way to Portland... snd we know how that guy likes to throw competitions.

Portland's first competitions was completely swamped. Working around Zheng's travel schedule was a challenge. And importing other delegates was just isn't reliable. Kit's arrival is really just a lucky happenstance. The demand (which was clearly evident after Roce City 2015) was completely unexpected. It goes to show that there are probably other areas of the country and the world that may not have satisfactory access to WCA events the way others do.

Still, I don't see any need for the WCA to change how they operate. Instead, what I think is happening is that a demand is being identified in these regions, and the supply will make their way to them. If anything should change, perhaps there should be a mechanism to identify regions that could use more WCA representation, rather than just creating a bunch of new delegates in places that already have enough.


----------



## shadowkiller168 (May 21, 2015)

Chree said:


> Portland's first competitions was completely swamped. Working around Zheng's travel schedule was a challenge. And importing other delegates was just isn't reliable. Kit's arrival is really just a lucky happenstance. The demand (which was clearly evident after Roce City 2015) was completely unexpected. It goes to show that there are probably other areas of the country and the world that may not have satisfactory access to WCA events the way others do.



The fact that my competition, Lawrence Spring 2015, had over 100 competitors, almost all of which were from Missouri, in central USA, a place that has had like 5 competitions total since 2010, shows that this area is also pretty devoid.


----------



## UnsolvedCypher (May 21, 2015)

There are absolutely problems in certain areas, but delegates don't just get created. Qualified organizers (people who have been to competitions and helped out significantly) need to email the WCA board to show their desire to organize, and also have a delegate that knows they can do it vouch for them. Once it's clear to the WCA that there are qualified organizers in an area that doesn't have the delegates to meet this demand, more delegates will be appointed.

Yes, it's hard to become qualified if there are no competitions in your area, but that means you need to travel to some other comps and help out to make yourself known to other delegates. This is the only way to increase competitions and the number of delegates, not some executive order to just appoint more delegates.


----------



## Mikel (May 21, 2015)

Dene said:


> The WCA actively discourages having competitions week after week in the same area, so you can't expect a competition every weekend nearby.



This seems to contradict the goal of the WCA.



> The goal of the World Cube Association is to have more competitions in more countries with more people and more fun, under fair and equal conditions.


----------



## AlexMaass (May 21, 2015)

Mikel said:


> This seems to contradict the goal of the WCA.



A competition in the same area every week is not fun for some people though.


----------



## Mollerz (May 21, 2015)

Mikel said:


> This seems to contradict the goal of the WCA.



This is the goal, upto a point where it does not become feasible anymore.


----------



## DeeDubb (May 21, 2015)

Dene said:


> Once again someone conflates the role of delegate with the role of competition organiser. These are two separate things. As far as I'm aware we have enough delegates (supply) to meet the number of competitions (demand).
> 
> If there is a location where many competitions are rejected because of a lack of delegates, that area is being poorly managed. But I doubt there are any major issues. I can imagine a lot of kids (*especially Americans*) will respond with comments like "I had my competition rejected", but then* they probably just went to another competition on the same weekend down the road*... The WCA actively discourages having competitions week after week in the same area, so you can't expect a competition every weekend nearby.



Ugh. America is massive. If by "down the road" you mean an 8+ hour drive, then possibly.

EDIT: I know Australia is similar in size to the US, but the population distribution is totally different.


----------



## JustinTimeCuber (May 21, 2015)

shadowkiller168 said:


> The fact that my competition, Lawrence Spring 2015, had over 100 competitors, almost all of which were from Missouri, in central USA, a place that has had like 5 competitions total since 2010, shows that this area is also pretty devoid.



awwwww gawd we really need more competitions in this area  There aren't nearly enough competitions around here. Despite the significant number of cubers in St. Louis area, including Kevin Hays.


----------



## TimMc (May 21, 2015)

UnsolvedCypher said:


> organizers (people who have been to competitions and helped out significantly) need to email the WCA board to show their desire to organize, and also have a delegate that knows they can do it vouch for them.



It'd be preferable to just have a conversation with a local Delegate or Senior Delegate first. The Senior Delegate can then make the proposal to the WCA Board.

Tim.


----------



## Dene (May 21, 2015)

To the people saying they don't have enough competitions in the US: Have you tried organising a competition? Have you tried contacting delegates from the areas around you to see who is available? The US has 24 delegates alone, and plenty more people that could step up if necessary. 

I want to give you an illustration of the problem. In Sydney, the most populated city in Australia, there are loads of cubers, and for years they've either had to travel, or miss out. Why? Because no one was prepared to go to the effort to organise a competition. Tim and myself were stuck, needing to find someone to do something, and someone to prove themselves to be suitable delegate material. After years without a competition we finally got things up and running last year when a couple of people stepped up, and they're now hosting competitions with 80+ people.

My point is, there may be loads of cubers, but is there anyone genuinely trying to do something about it?

@Chree you say the demand is big, because lots of people show up to competitions, but what I mean is the _demand of people attempting to host competitions_. There could be 100+ cubers sitting around in the same area without ever getting to a competition, but if none of them attempts to host one, there isn't actually any demand. On the other hand, if you have people trying to host competitions on a monthly basis, but those plans keep getting rejected because there isn't a delegate available, then there is a demand that the supply isn't meeting. If this is the case, then you can complain there aren't enough delegates in your area. But then... is anyone stepping up to prove themselves to take on the trusted position of delegate...?


----------



## BboyArchon (May 21, 2015)

We need a delegate in Madrid. There are lots of organisers but the 3 spanish delegates come from the furthest places (outside vs the center). Should we recommend some experienced candidates to the board?


----------



## MTGjumper (May 21, 2015)

Mollerz said:


> In regards to Scotland, both myself and Daniel can get there with relative ease, the problem is the lack of _organisers_ in that location.



Woah, let's not say something we might regret. I might organise another comp one day.


----------



## Mollerz (May 21, 2015)

MTGjumper said:


> Woah, let's not say something we might regret. I might organise another comp one day.



Hey now, I said lack of not absence of


----------



## Chree (May 21, 2015)

Dene said:


> @Chree you say the demand is big, because lots of people show up to competitions, but what I mean is the _demand of people attempting to host competitions_. There could be 100+ cubers sitting around in the same area without ever getting to a competition, but if none of them attempts to host one, there isn't actually any demand. On the other hand, if you have people trying to host competitions on a monthly basis, but those plans keep getting rejected because there isn't a delegate available, then there is a demand that the supply isn't meeting. If this is the case, then you can complain there aren't enough delegates in your area. But then... is anyone stepping up to prove themselves to take on the trusted position of delegate...?



Perhaps not on a monthly basis, but Rose City 2015 was supposed to be 2014. It was delayed nearly half a year while trying to work around our delegate's travel schedule. It was never outright rejected, mind you... just postponed.

Still, before then, the whole state of Oregon had only ever had 1 competition. Ever.

And no, no one seems interested in being a delegate out here, as far as I'm aware. But I'm not speaking strictly for our sake. I only want to illustrate that there is very likely a demand not being met, no matter how you define the word. But I agree with you that the solution will be more complicated than simply, "more delegates, more competitions". The right people have to want the job. Then they must prove qualified. Hell... I love organizing, but even I'm not sure about taking on that kind of responsibility.

Edit:



Dene said:


> My point is, there may be loads of cubers, but is there anyone genuinely trying to do something about it?



Because... This ^^^.

The OP may seem to like the idea of "more delegates, more competitions", but there is already a framework to work with to get that done. In order to get that done, more people will have to identify themselves as the types of people who want to take on that responsibility and work with existing delegates and the WCA to make it happen. Unfortunately, that will be more difficult for people in areas that are too far away from their nearest delegate. So the question they need answered is "what's the best way to fix that?" Newer cubers seeking WCA representation probably have no idea how to get started with that. Or it might seem difficult enough that they don't even try.


----------



## Ranzha (May 21, 2015)

Dene said:


> To the people saying they don't have enough competitions in the US: Have you tried organising a competition? Have you tried contacting delegates from the areas around you to see who is available? The US has 24 delegates alone, and plenty more people that could step up if necessary.



It has happened on multiple occasions that delegates are simply unavailable or unresponsive to emails asking about availability to host competitions. While being unavailable is understandable, being unresponsive is highly discouraging. Additionally, there is some concern that Delegates in this area will become increasingly unavailable as their personal pursuits naturally take precedence.

This said, I'm lucky to live where there are three Delegates within a couple hours' drive and two more Delegates within a six hours' drive, i.e. an area with perhaps the highest Delegate concentration, and three independent organisation teams (Berkeley, BASC, Stanford). Our competitor turnouts have exceeded 100 competitors rather consistently, accounting for at least a couple hundred competitors. And after next week, we will have churned out five competitions in the first half of 2015.


----------



## Blabber333 (May 21, 2015)

not a bad idea!


----------



## Luis (May 22, 2015)

BboyArchon said:


> We need a delegate in Madrid. There are lots of organisers but the 3 spanish delegates come from the furthest places (outside vs the center). Should we recommend some experienced candidates to the board?


Disagreed! It's unreal that we are in need of an additional delegate for Madrid. I can't remember a single occasion when a competition in Madrid hasn't been held because of lacking delegate. We three current delegates, Javier, Álex and me, can easily travel to Madrid. And indeed, we use to! Traveling to Madrid is easy and cheap for we all:

2015 Apr 11-12 - Getafe Open 2015 - Spain, Getafe, Madrid
2015 Feb 21-22 - MAD Cube Weekend 2015 - Spain, Madrid
2014 Dec 13 - Camarma Open 2014 - Spain, Camarma de Esteruelas, Madrid
2014 Sep 26-28 - Spanish Championship 2014 - Spain, Madrid
2014 Mar 21-22 - Madrid Spring Open 2014 - Spain, Madrid

So, five competitions in one year. Not bad!


----------



## Dene (May 22, 2015)

Ranzha said:


> It has happened on multiple occasions that delegates are simply unavailable or unresponsive to emails asking about availability to host competitions. While being unavailable is understandable, being unresponsive is highly discouraging. Additionally, there is some concern that Delegates in this area will become increasingly unavailable as their personal pursuits naturally take precedence.



This is where good management comes into the picture. Hopefully any delegates that are becoming less active are preparing a succession plan where possible.


----------



## BboyArchon (May 22, 2015)

Luis said:


> Disagreed! It's unreal that we are in need of an additional delegate for Madrid. I can't remember a single occasion when a competition in Madrid hasn't been held because of lacking delegate. We three current delegates, Javier, Álex and me, can easily travel to Madrid. And indeed, we use to! Traveling to Madrid is easy and cheap for we all:
> 
> 2015 Apr 11-12 - Getafe Open 2015 - Spain, Getafe, Madrid
> 2015 Feb 21-22 - MAD Cube Weekend 2015 - Spain, Madrid
> ...



But it'll be cheaper and easier having a delegate here. As it can be seen, the cubing community in Madrid is growing incredibly fast this last months with many new competitors and people interested in speedcubing. It would be a good idea to have (even more) resources here and maybe rise the number of competitions. 

In 2015 we had 2 in 5 months and the projection is having 1 or 2 more in the rest of the year so it isn't very high compared with the proportion of cubers asking for more competitions here. As the WCA says, "The goal of the World Cube Association is to have more competitions in more countries with more people and more fun, under fair and equal conditions." and this would be a nice way to do so.


----------



## Dene (May 22, 2015)

BboyArchon said:


> In 2015 we had 2 in 5 months and the projection is having 1 or 2 more in the rest of the year so it isn't very high compared with the proportion of cubers asking for more competitions here.



You show that you haven't paid attention to the thread at all. Being a delegate has nothing to do with hosting a competition. If people in Madrid want more competitions, people in Madrid should _host_ more competitions. 

By the sounds of it, Italy has plenty of willing delegates to show up when someone else bothers to host.


----------



## moralsh (May 22, 2015)

Luis said:


> Disagreed! It's unreal that we are in need of an additional delegate for Madrid. I can't remember a single occasion when a competition in Madrid hasn't been held because of lacking delegate. We three current delegates, Javier, Álex and me, can easily travel to Madrid. And indeed, we use to! Traveling to Madrid is easy and cheap for we all:
> 
> 2015 Apr 11-12 - Getafe Open 2015 - Spain, Getafe, Madrid
> 2015 Feb 21-22 - MAD Cube Weekend 2015 - Spain, Madrid
> ...



In fact of these 5 competition, 3 had 2 delegates attending, 1 had all 3 and only one had just 1 delegate, so we had a 2 delegates per comp average!

I agree it could be a good idea for the future, but right now, as Luis points out, we're being covered more than fine.

Where is the "We need more organizers" thread ?


----------



## megaminxwin (May 22, 2015)

Dene said:


> To the people saying they don't have enough competitions in the US: Have you tried organising a competition? Have you tried contacting delegates from the areas around you to see who is available? The US has 24 delegates alone, and plenty more people that could step up if necessary.
> 
> I want to give you an illustration of the problem. In Sydney, the most populated city in Australia, there are loads of cubers, and for years they've either had to travel, or miss out. Why? Because no one was prepared to go to the effort to organise a competition. Tim and myself were stuck, needing to find someone to do something, and someone to prove themselves to be suitable delegate material. After years without a competition we finally got things up and running last year when a couple of people stepped up, and they're now hosting competitions with 80+ people.
> 
> ...



I do think it's mainly a problem of people not wanting to organise competitions, which is why there were hardly any comps up here for a looong time. I don't, but I know I'd screw it up, being a very unorganised person anyway. Thankfully there are now actual organisers up here who know what they're doing so I don't have to travel a lot to get to a comp.

Also Ray just got confirmed as a full delegate but that's really just a bonus.


----------



## JustinTimeCuber (May 28, 2015)

In the US:
Year# of comps20045200510200612200717200835200945201048201152201253201354201462

More competitions. Every time.

In the world:
19821200322004122005242006332007532008109200916920102262011305201230320133582014481
^table irregularities are real.


----------



## AlexMaass (May 28, 2015)

Ranzha said:


> While being unavailable is understandable, being unresponsive is highly discouraging.


 Agreed, not mentioning names, but this has happened to me. : P

More organizers are needed in the US tbh.


----------



## Phinagin (May 28, 2015)

AlexMaass said:


> Agreed, not mentioning names, but this has happened to me. : P
> 
> More organizers are needed in the US tbh.


The US already has an incredible amount of competitions compared to the rest of the world. There have been roughly 1/6 of all competitions in US in 2014. 62 competitions which is more than 1 competition per week, I could imagine some places get 1 competitions every few months. I hardly think that the US needs more organizers.


----------



## biscuit (May 28, 2015)

Phinagin said:


> The US already has an incredible amount of competitions compared to the rest of the world. There have been roughly 1/6 of all competitions in US in 2014. 62 competitions which is more than 1 competition per week, I could imagine some places get 1 competitions every few months. I hardly think that the US needs more organizers.



Well the demand for competitions in the US vs anywhere else is very large. Europe has high demand but there is a metric butt ton of people who want to go to comps in the US. The other thing to consider is that the US is huge. WE are talking about a country that could be a small continent (it's bigger than Australia)


----------



## AlexMaass (May 28, 2015)

Phinagin said:


> The US already has an incredible amount of competitions compared to the rest of the world. There have been roughly 1/6 of all competitions in US in 2014. 62 competitions which is more than 1 competition per week, I could imagine some places get 1 competitions every few months. I hardly think that the US needs more organizers.


The US is a big place, there's places like Colorado which have a lack of competitions, but it seems to be improving.


----------



## Phinagin (May 28, 2015)

biscuit said:


> Well the demand for competitions in the US vs anywhere else is very large. Europe has high demand but there is a metric butt ton of people who want to go to comps in the US. The other thing to consider is that the US is huge. WE are talking about a country that could be a small continent (it's bigger than Australia)



Ya and because of the big population of cubers and size of the country the high number of competitions is somewhat needed, but more is unnecessary. It would also be interesting to see a stat somewhere showing the number of comps compared to population density of the whole world. With that we would be able to see where competitions are needed due to the little number of existing competitions compared to population density. 

Also Canada and Russia are huge in size, and have much less competitions than US, 13 in Canada(2014), idk about Russia, and 62 in United States(2014). Canada does not have a very large population to support the same number of comps, but most of Canada is not inhabited so the density is considerable. 


AlexMaass said:


> The US is a big place, there's places like Colorado which have a lack of competitions, but it seems to be improving.



Yes, there are areas in the US where competitions are less frequent, but you had said US not Colorado.


----------

