# Allow The Use Of Headphones During Our Competition Solves



## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

Hello as many others do I solve better while I listen to music. There was a huge debate about this a few years ago as I have been told, but I think I have an ansewer to all the issues people were having with allowing headphones.
1. People thought that others would blast their music and they would be disturbed.
The only way music leaks is when you are wearing over ear headphones, on ear headphones or earbuds. On ear and over ear are pretty self explanitory. Ear buds are the things that come wirth your ipod. They sit on the outside of your ear which means they can leak at high volumes. So my fix is that it is manditor to use in ear headphones. Other names are in ear monitors and earphones. In ear headphones will never leak sound son their will be no disturbances to others who don't like using headphones. Something I reccomend is comply foam tips http://complyfoam.com/ These eartips will not leak, are supremely comfortable and block out 99% of ambient noise. You can isolate yourself from the outside would and just focus on cubing. 
2. I canot afford expensive headphones.
Most people have a device they listen to music on ipod, iphone, mp3 player and other smartphones. So those come with earbuds which can leak sound. For only 10 dollars you can buy the Whoomp earbud enhancers. http://complyfoam.com/products/index.php?strProductName=Whoomp!-Earbud-Enhancers these will make your earbuds in ear headphones. These will also isolate you from the outside world.
3. You will not be able to hear the judge.
As stated in the WCA regulations if some one canot hear the judge will use hand signs. The same could be implimented here.
4. I don't like listening to music while i solve and concentrate better without music.
Thats fine this is not a manditory thing.

I think that fixes all the problems. For me atleast when im isolated and cubing i don't even listen to the music and I concentrate much better. This will also make people who are nervous fell less nervous. I know it would have helped me at my first competition. This will also help blind solvers as many of you know. Please leave your thoughts and comments below. If there is a general interest we can make a thread on the WCA fourms and when time comes to change the regulations hopefully we can get earphones legalized seeing i have found a fix to the problems with legalizing them before.


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## TheMachanga (Jan 31, 2011)

People might use it for cheating...somehow.


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## Toad (Jan 31, 2011)

What if someone has an MP3 player constantly playing their voice saying "R U R' U' R' F' ... etc..."

Would be so easy to cheat yeah?


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## kinch2002 (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> This will also help blind solvers as many of you know


Listening to music helps blind solvers?! Non-electronic headphones used to block out noise are already allowed (and many blind solver use them)

How about the image of cubing? I don't think it's great to see people listening to music while they do official solves. And I don't think it's a great image for the general public to see if, say, Felik's 3x3 WRs had him listening to music.


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## Magix (Jan 31, 2011)

Having an algorithm constantly spamming in your ear would be so annoying, it would make you slower rather than faster.

And if you're in competitions, you'll probably know your algorithms so well you don't need to listen to them from headphones. And if you do need to, then you probably still suck at cubing so miserably that you wont get a good time anyway, so it doesn't matter.


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

They would have to record the scramble backwards and they do not get the scrambes so that is void. I promise you there is no way to cheat. If it did just say R U R' U' R' F' it would not be the right moves and there is no way to get the right moves on to your mp3 player usless you stole the scrambing sheets which is cheating anyway.


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> Listening to music helps blind solvers?! Non-electronic headphones used to block out noise are already allowed (and many blind solver use them)
> 
> How about the image of cubing? I don't think it's great to see people listening to music while they do official solves. And I don't think it's a great image for the general public to see if, say, Felik's 3x3 WRs had him listening to music.


Many other big tournaments allow people to listen to music and those are ear muffs not headphones and they do not block out that much noise.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 31, 2011)

what about someone who doesn't know OLL parity. how bout that huh?!?

For real though, no sport except for EXTREME SPORTS (X Games stuff) allows participants to listen to music while competing.


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## marthaurion (Jan 31, 2011)

i solve better when no one is watching me solve, but that doesn't mean that the regulations will just let me sit in a soundproof box each competition


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

marthaurion said:


> i solve better when no one is watching me solve, but that doesn't mean that the regulations will just let me sit in a soundproof box each competition


 
Using the foam tips or earbud enhancers is like being in a soundproof box.


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## marthaurion (Jan 31, 2011)

doesn't change the fact that ppl are watching me...the key part of that was the box, not the soundproof part
also, earbuds are hardly soundproof


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

masterofthebass said:


> what about someone who doesn't know OLL parity. how bout that huh?!?
> 
> For real though, no sport except for EXTREME SPORTS (X Games stuff) allows participants to listen to music while competing.


 
World poker allows music. If someone does not know OLL parity then they are not very fast. And if the OLL parity algorithm was playing throughout the solve you would get messed up and when you need to use the alg you would have to wait for the algorithm to restart.


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## marthaurion (Jan 31, 2011)

but you said they weren't very fast to begin with...
say you have someone that knows everything about 4x4 but never memorized the parity algs, so instead he/she goes up and competes with those two algs playing in his/her ears, as they will surely come up in a 4x4 solve...now, suppose we have another person who actually knows the algs, but it slower at edge pairing...does the first person deserve to outplace the second?


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## Godmil (Jan 31, 2011)

Could this mean that the judges have to evalutate the headphones you have, as well as your cube, sounds just more work for the judges.
I get where the OP is coming from, but I think you have to just get used to it. Competitions by their very nature are stressful.


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## kinch2002 (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> Many other big tournaments allow people to listen to music and those are ear muffs not headphones and they do not block out that much noise.


I use Peltor Optime III ear protecting headphones with foam earplugs under them (all within the current regs), and I can sit in a room with people playing guitar hero loudly, and blindsolve with no problem. So they do block out a lot of noise


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## CharlieCooper (Jan 31, 2011)

You could have glasses with a camera in that converts the cube into an audio description for you to BLD solve.


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## TimMc (Jan 31, 2011)

It'd be quite annoying to have to instruct competitors while they're listening to music both before, during and after a solve when they're not accustomed to relying primarily on sight for communication.

Judge: "McCuber!"
*competitor sits down with headphones on for a 3x3 solve*
Judge: "Ready?" (signals)
Competitor: "Yes." (signals)
*judge removes cover*
*competitor inspects, and then starts the solve*
Judge: "Your timer didn't start!"
*competitor ignores*
*judge taps competitor on the shoulder*
*competitor removes headphones*
Competitor: "ERRRRGH! DON'T TOUCH ME!"
Random: "Calm down!"
Competitor: "I DON'T LIKE IT WHEN PEOPLE TOUCH ME!"
Judge: "Huh?"
*competitor storms off*

Tim.


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## Toad (Jan 31, 2011)

> Don't really understand competitions and the key rules about them...

> Create thread because they should be changed.


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> Using the foam tips or earbud enhancers is like being in a soundproof box.


 


CharlieCooper said:


> You could have glasses with a camera in that converts the cube into an audio description for you to BLD solve.



Makes sence but would cost hundreds of millions of dollars or pounds in you case.


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## Akuma (Jan 31, 2011)

I agree with the above poster.
There needs to be a communication between the judge and the competitor and if the competitor is listening to music the lack of communication can cause problems.

Personally, I think it's disrespectful listening to music without paying attention to the judge and others.

As a competitor one needs to be aware of ones surroundings, aware of the judge, aware of others and that's a part of competing one needs to adjust to. It's another thing cubing at home. You just have to get used to it.


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

marthaurion said:


> but you said they weren't very fast to begin with...
> say you have someone that knows everything about 4x4 but never memorized the parity algs, so instead he/she goes up and competes with those two algs playing in his/her ears, as they will surely come up in a 4x4 solve...now, suppose we have another person who actually knows the algs, but it slower at edge pairing...does the first person deserve to outplace the second?


Just think about it for a minute say they got to the point where they had to use the parity alg they would have to wait for it to start over so they could do the full alg. I'd they were listening to an alg the whole solve they would get messed up.


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## Bryan (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> I promise you there is no way to cheat.


 
Don't most players have an RF receiver in them? Couldn't someone in the audience send you information about the cube? Or even a confirmation that your BLD is good.


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

Akuma said:


> I agree with the above poster.
> There needs to be a communication between the judge and the competitor and if the competitor is listening to music the lack of communication can cause problems.
> 
> Personally, I think it's disrespectful listening to music without paying attention to the judge and others.
> ...


 As stated in the WCA regulations if a competitor vanit hear the judge will use hand motions. Also headphones will be optional you don't have to use them. Many people do better with them though.


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## ElectricDoodie (Jan 31, 2011)

To those complaining about not hearing the Judge, like it's been said, the Judge can use hand-motions, per the rules.

And to those complaining that the person might be listening to something to help them cheat, you are acting like there is no way to find out what they are listening to.
For less than $3, you can buy a Headphone Splitter, which let's 2 people with headphones listen to the exact same player, from 1 jack. That way, you are listening to the exact same thing the competitor is listening to. 

Here's one for $1.69:
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8V234-WHT-APL-Headphone-Splitter/dp/B0000UV2AW


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## coolmission (Jan 31, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> And to those complaining that the person might be listening to something to help them cheat, you are acting like there is no way to find out what they are listening to.
> For less than $3, you can buy a Headphone Splitter, which let's 2 people with headphones listen to the exact same player, from 1 jack. That way, you are listening to the exact same thing the competitor is listening to.



I am ashamed of my taste in music so I wouldn't want the judge to know what I listen to while I solve; would I have to be disqualified?


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## ElectricDoodie (Jan 31, 2011)

coolmission said:


> I am ashamed of my taste in music so I wouldn't want the judge to know what I listen to while I solve; would I have to be disqualified?


 
No, you need to grow some balls.


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## coolmission (Jan 31, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> No, you need to grow some balls.


 
What a great way to settle an argument.


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## ElectricDoodie (Jan 31, 2011)

coolmission said:


> What a great way to settle an argument.


 
Thank you, I try.


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## flan (Jan 31, 2011)

Couldn't the organizers put some random music on for all to hear? It wouldn't distract people who don't recognize the music I don't think, and it might help others concentrate? Its a pretty stupid idea because the music would have to be quite loud and probably would have to be dance or something fast that wouldnt distract but w/e. Just an idea, places like swimming pools and gyms always play music.


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## Edward (Jan 31, 2011)

How fast someone is has nothing to do with the rules.


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## ElectricDoodie (Jan 31, 2011)

flan said:


> Couldn't the organizers put some random music on for all to hear? It wouldn't distract people who don't recognize the music I don't think, and it might help others concentrate? Its a pretty stupid idea because the music would have to be quite loud and probably would have to be dance or something fast that wouldnt distract but w/e. Just an idea, places like swimming pools and gyms always play music.


 The organizers could be the one to set up the music that goes in the headphones. This way, it won't need to play in the entire room. If you choose to have some kind of music, it could be from the Organizer's choice. If you think you would be distracted, you can choose to just not use any music.

I like your idea, except for the part where everyone is subjected to it. Which is why I think your idea could be implemented with headphones as the option, instead of music all around, like at Gym's or Swimming Pools.


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## matax (Jan 31, 2011)

Most music players have radio function in them and there is something like 'fm radio transmitter' which broadcasts sound going out from a device.
Image situation when competitor have mp3 with radio set, and one of viewers have microphone and is brodcasting him messages by FM transmitter.
Wouldn't be fair, would it be?


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## Edward (Jan 31, 2011)

And what if you're associating a certain song with an alg to help you remember it? There's always a way to gain an advantage. I'm sure the rule makers have thought long and hard about every rule and why it's there.


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## ElectricDoodie (Jan 31, 2011)

matax said:


> Most music players have radio function in them and there is something like 'fm radio transmitter' which broadcasts sound going out from a device.
> Image situation when competitor have mp3 with radio set, and one of viewers have microphone and is brodcasting him messages by FM transmitter.
> Wouldn't be fair, would it be?


Did you even read my other post?






ElectricDoodie said:


> And to those complaining that the person might be listening to something to help them cheat, you are acting like there is no way to find out what they are listening to.
> For less than $3, you can buy a Headphone Splitter, which let's 2 people with headphones listen to the exact same player, from 1 jack. That way, you are listening to the exact same thing the competitor is listening to.
> 
> Here's one for $1.69:
> http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8V234-WHT-APL-Headphone-Splitter/dp/B0000UV2AW


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## Godmil (Jan 31, 2011)

Edward said:


> And what if you're associating a certain song with an alg to help you remember it?


 
If someone went to that much trouble to cheat, I'd let them off with it


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## matax (Jan 31, 2011)

I don't even take your point with splitting sound to competitor and judge. That sounds just ridicoulous to me


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## ElectricDoodie (Jan 31, 2011)

matax said:


> I don't even take your point with splitting sound to competitor and judge. That sounds just ridicoulous to me


 
I don't understand what your first sentence is trying to say, but care to explain why it sounds ridiculous?
I understand someone not liking the idea, but I'd like to hear why it's ridiculous.


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## flan (Jan 31, 2011)

Edward said:


> And what if you're associating a certain song with an alg to help you remember it? There's always a way to gain an advantage. I'm sure the rule makers have thought long and hard about every rule and why it's there.



surely you could associate a certain item of clothing with an alg to help you remember it?



ElectricDoodie said:


> The organizers could be the one to set up the music that goes in the headphones. This way, it won't need to play in the entire room. If you choose to have some kind of music, it could be from the Organizer's choice. If you think you would be distracted, you can choose to just not use any music.
> 
> I like your idea, except for the part where everyone is subjected to it. Which is why I think your idea could be implemented with headphones as the option, instead of music all around, like at Gym's or Swimming Pools.


I like the idea of the organizer choosing what you listen to but it would be very hard to implement, unless the organised brings algless CD's and the competitors supply the portable CD players. But that gets annoying for the organizer and judge checking to see if you have an authorized CD and CD players are a bit outdated now.


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## Edward (Jan 31, 2011)

Are noise cancelling earmuffs allowed currently? I'd like these, and they're not much of a stretch.


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## matax (Jan 31, 2011)

It's because i can't imagine such situation lol. Competitor and judge standing, and nodding to rhytm of the music - that would just hit the image of speedcubing.
Another thing - I just fell sorry for the judges to listen to so much music that (probably) they don't like.
The communication would look funny for the viewers too, i reckon.


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## Edward (Jan 31, 2011)

flan said:


> surely you could associate a certain item of clothing with an alg to help you remember it?


 
But peoples clothes aren't something you can really control. Music is.


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## rishidoshi (Jan 31, 2011)

ummmm... how about improving ur mental/psychological strengths instead of relying on "performance boosters" lol (im not talking dope here) lol... anyway Jessica Fridrich *mentions about psychological strengths on her page*. scroll to about 75% where she talks about Robert Pergl. And if u r (or wanna be) a world champion, no amount of noise, camera flashes, oohs and aahs from the crowds shud disturb u. I'm not trying to be too negative here Vishal. The idea sure is debatable


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## flan (Jan 31, 2011)

Edward said:


> But peoples clothes aren't something you can really control. Music is.


 
You can choose what to wear in the morning, you could wear a coat with stripes of red red blue blue urobilin urobilin lavender urobilin urobilin red urobilin urobilin red urobilin urobilin fuchsia fuchsia red fuchsia fuchsia lavender blue blue red red to remember the parity alg


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## Edward (Jan 31, 2011)

flan said:


> You can choose what to wear in the morning, you could wear a coat with stripes of red red blue blue urobilin urobilin lavender urobilin urobilin red urobilin urobilin red urobilin urobilin fuchsia fuchsia red fuchsia fuchsia lavender blue blue red red to remember the parity alg


 
But that's ridiculous. Using music to remember an alg isn't that much of a stretch. Weird clothing to remember and alg kind of is.


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## hr.mohr (Jan 31, 2011)

Edward said:


> Are noise cancelling earmuffs allowed currently? I'd like these, and they're not much of a stretch.


 
No they are not allowed.


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## Bryan (Jan 31, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> To those complaining about not hearing the Judge, like it's been said, the Judge can use hand-motions, per the rules.


When I have a competitor that needs hand motions, I go over with them in advance of what they expect. Since there are few of these competitors, it's not too much of a hassle (and I've actually had people from other comps who taught me what they've used previously.



ElectricDoodie said:


> And to those complaining that the person might be listening to something to help them cheat, you are acting like there is no way to find out what they are listening to.
> For less than $3, you can buy a Headphone Splitter, which let's 2 people with headphones listen to the exact same player, from 1 jack. That way, you are listening to the exact same thing the competitor is listening to.


And probably and extender, because you don't want them to be right over your shoulder. And no more double-judging, because you want to listen to music. Are judges required to provide their own headsets and extenders?



flan said:


> Couldn't the organizers put some random music on for all to hear? It wouldn't distract people who don't recognize the music I don't think, and it might help others concentrate? Its a pretty stupid idea because the music would have to be quite loud and probably would have to be dance or something fast that wouldnt distract but w/e. Just an idea, places like swimming pools and gyms always play music.


Who's to say it wouldn't distract people who don't recognize it? I would say if I didn't recognize it, it would be more distracting because of trying to figure out what it is. And besides, licensing music for public performance is a big pain in the butt. And many Youtube videos might be taken down.



ElectricDoodie said:


> The organizers could be the one to set up the music that goes in the headphones.


Again, to verify it, I would have to verify the entire track is truly just music, verify that the player is just a regular player (and isn't a front-end that will change tracks based on motion, etc).


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## Reinier Schippers (Jan 31, 2011)

With FMC it is not allowed to use any alg sheets or whatever right? just 3 cubes a pen and some stickers and the paper to write your solution. If you take your Ipod you just can put in all zbll algs and listen to them. Wouldn't be fair i think. What they could do is, that you cant use your mp3 while fmc but they should allow a mp3 with big cubes, not with small cubes: When you put on your music during inspection you cant hear the judge calling your 8 sec, 12 sec go. I think it will be difficult to make a rule about music and earphones. Organisors could do a little bit of background music though.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> World poker allows music. If someone does not know OLL parity then they are not very fast. And if the OLL parity algorithm was playing throughout the solve you would get messed up and when you need to use the alg you would have to wait for the algorithm to restart.


 



You really think you can equate proffesional poker playing to cubing? There is a huge difference in activity levels during a tournament of poker and a single Rubik's Cube solve.In poker you don't even have to be playing, and you still have to pay money to have your seat at a table... I cannot see how this style of sport is relateable.


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## qqwref (Jan 31, 2011)

Er, I'd go as far as to say that almost all sports can't be related to cubing. Unless we look at another major sport that combines (a) a time trial type of event, (b) small-scale dexterity rather than whole-body physical ability, and (c) no direct competition (such as a race or a team match), we shouldn't go around trying to compare cubing to other sports in too much detail.


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## ElectricDoodie (Jan 31, 2011)

Bryan said:


> Are judges required to provide their own headsets and extenders?


 Ah, you got me there. 
I don't think extenders are necessary, as most headphones have a fairly long chord. At least mine do.
But, what you say about who will be providing such Headphone Splitter, is a good question. 

I feel like the burden should be on the person who wants to have music playing. If you decide you want to listen to music, then bring your Headphone Splitter. If you don't have one, or don't want to bring one, you can either borrow it from someone else, or just compete the regular way, without music.







Reinier Schippers said:


> When you put on your music during inspection you cant hear the judge calling your 8 sec, 12 sec go


 This has already been addressed.


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## marthaurion (Jan 31, 2011)

for all of you that keep saying the judges can do this, the judges can do that, have you actually judged before? it's pretty hectic and they already have enough on their plate

edit: i'd like to dedicate this post to andrew kang, who talked me into judging every round at a competition >.>


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 31, 2011)

It's still too much burden on the judge. There is not sufficient reason to allow a competitor to use music to justify the work required by the judge to accommodate it. All of these convolutions to make it possible are unnecessary; the current rules prevent having to worry about any of those things.

I'm really totally against this idea.


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## EricReese (Jan 31, 2011)

Since when did listening to music help while doing BLD? All music does is distract me during BLD....


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

EricReese said:


> Since when did listening to music help while doing BLD? All music does is distract me during BLD....


 That is your opinion Chris Hardwick says if this were legal it would help him alot with blind. This is not mandatory it is just an option if it helps you.


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## TheRubiksGod (Jan 31, 2011)

*The Solution: close thread after please*

Listening to Music while solving a rubik's cube at a Competition should be legal. there are many reasons why it should become legal and too little for it to be made illegal 


*1.CHEATER!*

(what Judges might think)

1. To have an audio recording of the mix reversed so that the person listening to the audio may solve it... AKA cheating 

Impossible, The scramblers use random scrambles and cannot possibly record a random scramble, convert it into an audio format and transfer it to a music device in time for the competitor to compete the CHEATING debate may now end 

*2. The Music distracts me! TURN IT DOWN *

A good reason to make it illegal right? WRONG! The competitors music volume even from a regular headset is no different than the talking of cubers around in a noisy area PERIOD! But what if it is a nice quiet place, easy. 

If a person is talking in a quiet area you tell him to shut up. If a person is blasting his music in a quiet area you tell him to turn it down! 

The fact is, if there was a cricket chirping in a cubing comp and the cricket could not be found the Cricket would be a distraction and the Competition would have to cancelled

(The above statement is FALSE you would live with it like at any other public or private place especially a Competition)

*3. The judge cannot communicate with the competitor*


This is a simple solution. your music is too loud. there are rules to fix this 
(Look Below)

YOU MAY WEAR EARBUDS FOR MUSIC IF 

1. YOU CAN HEAR THE JUDGE AND COMPLY WITH WHATEVER HE SAYS NO EXCEPTIONS!!

2. ONE EAR MUST BE REVEALED DURING THE COURSE OF THE SOLVE SO THAT THE JUDGE MAY COMMUNICATE WITH HIM/HER


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

The whole point is to isolate yourself from the outside. According to the regulations if someone vanit hear the judge uses hand motions which would work. If you do not use over ear headphones on ear headphones or ear buds music will not leak. You can read my first post about it.


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## ElectricDoodie (Jan 31, 2011)

TheRubiksGod said:


> 1. To have an audio recording of the mix reversed so that the person listening to the audio may solve it... AKA cheating
> 
> Impossible, The scramblers use random scrambles and cannot possibly record a random scramble, convert it into an audio format and transfer it to a music device in time for the competitor to compete the CHEATING debate may now end.


 This has already been addressed in a different manner.






TheRubiksGod said:


> *3. The judge cannot communicate with the competitor*
> 
> 
> This is a simple solution. your music is too loud. there are rules to fix this
> ...


 This has also been addressed. It's in the rules, that the Judge may use hand signals.
Please read the thread before posting.


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## Bryan (Jan 31, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> This has already been addressed in a different manner.


Yes, a completely impractical one. Instead of telling people to keep re-reading, how about you re-read and followup on _ALL_ of the issues people are pointing out?


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## marthaurion (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> The whole point is to isolate yourself from the outside. According to the regulations if someone vanit hear the judge uses hand motions which would work. If you do not use over ear headphones on ear headphones or ear buds music will not leak. You can read my first post about it.


 
Nearly everyone can solve better when isolating themselves than in a social setting, but the point of the competition is to keep everyone equally in a social setting...adding optional headphones allow some people to isolate themselves while other cannot


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## ElectricDoodie (Jan 31, 2011)

Bryan said:


> Yes, a completely impractical one. Instead of telling people to keep re-reading, how about you re-read and followup on _ALL_ of the issues people are pointing out?


Not impractical.

What issues haven't I followed up on?
Other than the one with the guy that needs to grow some balls.

Besides, that was the first time I told someone to re-read, based on my Headphone Splitter idea.


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

There is no way you can get the scramble unless you steal them which is already cheating weather we talk about headphones or not.


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## TheRubiksGod (Jan 31, 2011)

*ridiculous!*



Vishal said:


> The whole point is to isolate yourself from the outside. According to the regulations if someone vanit hear the judge uses hand motions which would work. If you do not use over ear headphones on ear headphones or ear buds music will not leak. You can read my first post about it.


:fp



If you cannot hear the judge (Deaf or hard of hearing) only then should the judge use hand motions!

if you can hear and choose to not want to hear by listening to music. the judge shouldn't waste his/her time flapping his hands in the air PERIOD! 


You must be able to listen to the judges comments if you are able to hear. if you want to enjoy music as a distraction that is fine but you must be able to listen and respond to the judge

And making it completely illegal for the use of any music whatsoever is insane! music is fine as long as you can hear the judge


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

Hand motions are not that hard to do. You can talk about the hand motions before the competitor puts on there music.


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## marthaurion (Jan 31, 2011)

im gonna ask again...have you judged at a competition before?


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

There is no reason that we Canot make a few hand motions. It is not that are and if it is so bad don't be a judge.


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## marthaurion (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> There is no reason that we Canot make a few hand motions. It is not that are and if it is so bad don't be a judge.


 
then the organizers are left with 3 people willing to judge and then they now have to judge every round

edit: also, by the fact that you're dodging my question, I'm assuming you've never judged before


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## TheRubiksGod (Jan 31, 2011)

marthaurion said:


> im gonna ask again...have you judged at a competition before?


 

Yes I have, In casper Wy (where i live) i know a couple people who solve cubes and we hold monthly comps. Judges switch off every now and then but we have our own ruling system.. we have discussed the issue with mp3 players only twice and have decided that it was fine as long as the competitor could hear and respond to the judge and everything i said a while ago


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## marthaurion (Jan 31, 2011)

how big are these competitions?


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## TheRubiksGod (Jan 31, 2011)

There is no reason any judge should have to do it unless the competitor is disabled. as i said many times before the competitor should be able to hear and respond to a judge if they plan on listening to music


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## Bryan (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> There is no reason that we Canot make a few hand motions. It is not that are and if it is so bad don't be a judge.


 
As Ken said, "Yay for a rule that discourages people from helping out at a competition."*http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/member.php?2408-marthaurion*



TheRubiksGod said:


> Yes I have, In casper Wy (where i live) i know a couple people who solve cubes and we hold monthly comps. Judges switch off every now and then but we have our own ruling system.. we have discussed the issue with mp3 players only twice and have decided that it was fine as long as the competitor could hear and respond to the judge and everything i said a while ago



You have monthly competitions, but just three days ago you posted this thread? http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?27072-Cubing-in-ol-wyoming Also, judging in a friendly situation is much different than an official competition.

anyway, if you seriously think you need music, you're probably going to be some sort of prima donna for other stuff. "Man, I can totally sub-20 when I'm at home, but that's when I'm in my beanbag with a plate of pizza rolls. Competitions should allow bean bags to be used. The organizers can just bring bean bags and set them on the floor. I see no issues with this."


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## Tyjet66 (Jan 31, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> Listening to music helps blind solvers?!


 
Listening to music actually helps me with BLD, since my memo is more of a muscle memory (tapping) I don't have to remember anything. The music helps block out noise and music calms me down so I can focus better.


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## TheRubiksGod (Jan 31, 2011)

marthaurion said:


> how big are these competitions?



The Competition's that I hold usually range in sizes of 20-23 people. (understand that i live in a small area) but amazingly numbers have increased since the start of it when i was 15 (two years ago) it started with a group of 6. Each competitor votes for a judge and that judge judges for 1 comp and can't be revoted for four months (four comps)


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## JonnyWhoopes (Jan 31, 2011)

TheRubiksGod said:


> The Competition's that I hold usually range in sizes of 20-23 people. (understand that i live in a small area) but amazingly numbers have increased since the start of it when i was 15 (two years ago) it started with a group of 6. Each competitor votes for a judge and that judge judges for 1 comp and can't be revoted for four months (four comps)


 \/


Bryan said:


> You have monthly competitions, but just three days ago you posted this thread? http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?27072-Cubing-in-ol-wyoming Also, judging in a friendly situation is much different than an official competition.


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## cmhardw (Jan 31, 2011)

This is a tough issue, and I am ambivalent here. Purely from the viewpoint of being a competitor I would do much better with music, especially with BLD. It may sound dumb, but listening to really fast paced, high energy music helps me to stay focused and GOGOGOGO during BLD.

However, I think it's a very good point that the extra training necessary for the judges would be a hinderance to first time judges. I sometimes feel that judges feel a bit overwhelmed even just explaining the +2 rules to them. If you also had to add in official hand signals to the mix I think it may discourage some judges from participating.

Although I have strong feelings on both sides, I feel that the pros gained by allowing some people to have music when they want do not outweigh the cons of the extra pressure on the organizers and judges.

I would have to say that I lean strongly toward no music allowed.


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## Tim Reynolds (Jan 31, 2011)

If we go with the headphone splitting idea, what exactly are the rules on what kind of music is allowed? What if it was someone singing "Six easy flips on the right hand side...", or the OLL parity? Do all judges have to be experienced cubers, to know exactly what to listen for in songs that might contain cheating information? During BLD, do you expect judges to listen intently to songs while simultaneously making sure the sheet of paper doesn't fall? I think this is just adding another complication that we don't really need to add and will just make it harder to find judges.

Also, even with the splitter, I can't imagine it would be that hard for someone to put a chip in the earbuds that plays a different song from what is being played by the ipod. And with the glasses transmitting the coded BLD information, Vishal, I don't think you're even close to how much that would cost to make. Tiny cameras don't cost more than a few thousand dollars, and that's certainly the most expensive part.

Basically we're giving people new ways of cheating, which I don't think is the best idea.


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## Kian (Jan 31, 2011)

The biggest problem with listening to music while cubing would be the hassle it would cause. It would waste time as competitors took our their ipods, picked their song and began. Then it would be a problem for instructing competitors because of their inability to hear the judge. It is, all and all, a bad idea.


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## Vinny (Jan 31, 2011)

Or we could just leave the rules the way they are.


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## Rubiks560 (Jan 31, 2011)

I would love the idea of having music, but I think it should just stay the way it is. Less hassle for people.


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## PowerCuber (Jan 31, 2011)

I honestly don't think music will ever be allowed. It's way too easy to cheat using it.


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## AndrewRocks (Jan 31, 2011)

Headphones and a soundproof, private box are not the same thing. Headphone usage is a pretty minimal request.


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## Tim Major (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> I promise you there is no way to cheat.


 
Quite on the contrary, I can think of many ways to cheat in competition. I'm not saying I do, and I don't really want to mention loopholes with the current regs, but with earphones you could listen to someone saying the memo for blind events. 
Competitions currently involve a fair bit of trust, and I have seen and heard about incidents. I think handsigns is a bad fix.
As a side note, I personally think music might help Faz, whenever he's solving, someone walking around the room, breaks the absolute silence.

I know my post seems to've seemed fairly mixed, but I personally think music is a bad idea, just because;
1. It isn't allowed currently, and isn't important enough to be changed.
2. Just gives even more opportunity to cheat.
3. It's antisocial, and makes new judges learn more. 
All because some nerves? Anything you do in competition is meant to make you nervous. That's a hard thing about competing. But that's how it's been in the past and in all past competitions.

And don't think that this is my opinion just because I don't feel nervous in comp. I shake so much, I mess up cases.
And this was typed on my "small screen phone", so cut me some related to grammar and spelling.


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## qqwref (Jan 31, 2011)

My opinion is basically:
- it would be really nice to be able to use music, but
- it would also be so much hassle for judges and organizers that it's totally not worth it.


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

PowerCuber said:


> I honestly don't think music will ever be allowed. It's way too easy to cheat using it.


Please explain how it would be EASY to chart the only ways I can think if would be extremely hard and cost alot of money.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 31, 2011)

Vishal said:


> Please explain how it would be EASY to chart the only ways I can think if would be extremely hard and cost alot of money.


 
so people with phones can't cheat at BLD?


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

You could be required to keep the mp3 player or phone on the table. You would also have to answer the phone.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 31, 2011)

what if its already connected? Or you have a bluetooth headset with auto answer on?


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## Vishal (Jan 31, 2011)

There voise would still mess you up in my opinion and you might easily messy a move or they could tell you a wrong move on accident and this would take a few people to do this.


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## Dene (Feb 1, 2011)

Anybody that would actually seriously consider this has clearly never had to run a competition or help out at all. It would be such an insanely huge hassle and encourages more cheating. Absolutely 1000000000% no.


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## Whyusosrs? (Feb 1, 2011)

Dene said:


> Anybody that would actually seriously consider this has clearly never had to run a competition or help out at all. It would be such an insanely huge hassle and encourages more cheating. Absolutely 1000000000% no.


 

wat. That is more then 100%.


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## PatrickJameson (Feb 1, 2011)

Vishal said:


> You could be required to keep the mp3 player or phone on the table. You would also have to answer the phone.


 
Do you see what is happening here? More and more regulations equates to more and more loopholes and more and more hassles.

*competitor walks up to table*
*takes out mp3 players and puts headphones in*
*chooses song and plays*
*judge tries to make sure competitor knows how the solve procedure goes but the competitor can't hear*
*competitor takes out headphones to hear*
*judge confirms everything and competitor puts headphones back in*
*by this point the song has ended and the competitor must start the song over*
*competitor places mp3 player in pocket*
*judges tries to tell competitor the mp3 player must be on the table*
*competitor takes out headphones to hear judge*
*competitor complies and puts headphones in ear*
*judge does hand signal to make sure competitor is ready*
*competitor gets confused by this hand signal and finally realizes what it means and confirms that he is ready*
*solve starts*

I don't even want to write a situation where splitters would be needed.


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## Vishal (Feb 1, 2011)

PatrickJameson said:


> Do you see what is happening here? More and more regulations equates to more and more loopholes and more and more hassles.
> 
> *competitor walks up to table*
> *takes out mp3 players and puts headphones in*
> ...


 
A competitor should know the rules in advance.the rule could be you start your music just before inspection time.


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## Toad (Feb 1, 2011)

Vishal, have you ever been to a competition?

If so, what comp(s) and did you help out with judging or anything at all?


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## Godmil (Feb 1, 2011)

This thread keeps getting better, if it goes ahead in a way that pleases everyone, the rules governing headphones will be longer than the all the rules for the 3x3


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## masterofthebass (Feb 1, 2011)

Toad said:


> Vishal, have you ever been to a competition?
> 
> If so, what comp(s) and did you help out with judging or anything at all?


 
http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2010HARP01


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## Baian Liu (Feb 1, 2011)

Would that be legal?


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## Olivér Perge (Feb 1, 2011)

Baian Liu said:


> Would that be legal?


 
Absolutely no!

Same thing happened at Hungarian Open 2009 or 2010 with Balázs Bernát during FMC. I told him he has two choices: Handle in the paper he had at that moment or DNF. He choosed the first one. (It was at like 50-55 minutes, he had a solution written down, which counted.)


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## marthaurion (Feb 1, 2011)

masterofthebass said:


> http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2010HARP01


 
lol at doing the three easiest events


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## rishidoshi (Feb 1, 2011)

Godmil said:


> This thread keeps getting better, if it goes ahead in a way that pleases everyone, the rules governing headphones will be longer than the all the rules for the 3x3


 
lol.. yeah... and we wud be discussing tracks more than lubes. "which track helps better to soothe the nerves??"
"Oh wait, this track helps reduce nearly 2 secs!!" .. "Vote for the most fav track whilst solving the 5x5x5" ..... il stop imagining for now and work on wat matters... Algs n fingertricks


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## Joël (Feb 2, 2011)

Vishal said:


> Makes sence but would cost hundreds of millions of dollars or pounds in you case.


 
Nah, it doesn't have to survive G forces or be launched into space, so you don't need NASA to make it. Some geeks could probably make some device like Charlie suggested, and I would not be surprised if it could be done for <$1000. (But then again, there's still a judge with a piece of paper during the solve, so it would have to store some information about the initial cube state during memo...)

On topic: I personally would not mind if people used headphones, but I don't see the WCA allowing it anytime soon.


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## Kirjava (Feb 2, 2011)

Non verbal judge communication is for competitors who are aurally impaired, not selfish douchebags.


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## yomaster (Feb 2, 2011)

lol what if someone forgets an OLL algorithm and it plays to them: "R, U, R prime, U, R, U two, R prime. Congratulations! You have completed one of the easiest OLL algorithms! Now on to PLL..."


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## marthaurion (Feb 3, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> Non verbal judge communication is for competitors who are aurally impaired, not selfish douchebags.


 
Thom has spoken!


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## TheRubiksGod (Feb 3, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> Non verbal judge communication is for competitors who are aurally impaired, not selfish douchebags.


 

Exactly, thats what i said earlier (I understand now that we are enemies)

You are able to listen to music if 

1. you can hear the judge and comply with whatever he say's. 


you should have read my earlier post tsk tsk tsk


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## MaeLSTRoM (Feb 3, 2011)

Headphones yes, for making it quiter for the solver. I think music is not the way to go just becase it could be seen as unfair and also it would make it unfair on the people without their music.


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## choza244 (Feb 3, 2011)

I don't knoe exactly the WCA rules, and havdn't been in a competition either, but can someone explain me the problem here? Because from what I see in this video, you can use headphones during your solve, or am I wrong??

here is a WR by Faz where he uses headphones.






As I said, I have never been in a competition, so I don't knoe the rules


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## ElectricDoodie (Feb 3, 2011)

choza244 said:


> I don't knoe exactly the WCA rules, and havdn't been in a competition either, but can someone explain me the problem here? Because from what I see in this video, you can use headphones during your solve, or am I wrong??
> 
> here is a WR by Faz where he uses headphones.
> 
> ...


 
O__O

Yeah, so apparently you ARE allowed to use headphones?
Or maybe there's an explanation to it.


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## Kirjava (Feb 3, 2011)

TheRubiksGod said:


> Exactly, thats what i said earlier (I understand now that we are enemies)



Um... what?



TheRubiksGod said:


> You are able to listen to music if
> 
> 1. you can hear the judge and comply with whatever he say's.



No you are not.



TheRubiksGod said:


> you should have read my earlier post tsk tsk tsk


 
Your posts cause aneurysms.


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## TheMachanga (Feb 3, 2011)

choza244 said:


> I don't knoe exactly the WCA rules, and havdn't been in a competition either, but can someone explain me the problem here? Because from what I see in this video, you can use headphones during your solve, or am I wrong??
> 
> here is a WR by Faz where he uses headphones.
> 
> ...



Those are to block out noise. They're not connected to anything.


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## ElectricDoodie (Feb 3, 2011)

TheMachanga said:


> Those are to block out noise. They're not connected to anything.


 
But, as it's been said in this topic, Sound Cancelling Earphones are also not allowed.







Edward said:


> Are noise cancelling earmuffs allowed currently?





hr.mohr said:


> No they are not allowed.


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## TheMachanga (Feb 3, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> But, as it's been said in this topic, Sound Cancelling Earphones are also not allowed.


wtf.


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## JonnyWhoopes (Feb 3, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> But, as it's been said in this topic, Sound Cancelling Earphones are also not allowed.


 
Only ones that are electronic. You know, Active Noise Cancellation? However, "headphones" that simply dampen, soften, or muffle sound should be allowed.


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## Johan444 (Feb 3, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> But, as it's been said in this topic, Sound Cancelling Earphones are also not allowed.


 
They are allowed for likeable persons. Also if you're very fast on solving rubik cubes you're given certain priviligies.


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## Johan444 (Feb 3, 2011)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> Only ones that are electronic. You know, Active Noise Cancellation? However, "headphones" that simply dampen, soften, or muffle sound should be allowed.


 
So wich are used in the video?


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## ElectricDoodie (Feb 3, 2011)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> Only ones that are electronic. You know, Active Noise Cancellation? However, "headphones" that simply dampen, soften, or muffle sound should be allowed.


 
But, in the video, it was an electronic one. It had the long electrical wire and everything.
Not saying that he had it hooked up or anything, but it wasn't just ear muffs. 

And I thought earmuffs were also not allowed.


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## DavidWoner (Feb 3, 2011)

Active Sound Canceling headphones require a power source, if they were not plugged in then they were acting in a legal capacity.


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## Johan444 (Feb 3, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> Active Sound Canceling headphones require a power source, if they were not plugged in then they were acting in a legal capacity.


 
Batteries are a power source.


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## masterofthebass (Feb 3, 2011)

You can use normal headphones if you want, but if they are plugged into an audio device, then that is the issue here. The passive ability of a set of circumaural headphones to block out noise is not in discussion here.


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## ElectricDoodie (Feb 3, 2011)

So, everyone is talking about how you can cheat by having someone call you, installing chips in a Splitter, having fake music, motion controlled camera, and other absurd idea.

But, finding a way to cheat with Earmuff is impossible?


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## Johan444 (Feb 3, 2011)

To my knowledge unplugged noise cancelling headphones can use its noise cancelling abilities with batteries as a power source. Say that's true, then

a) are you allowed to use them with noise cancelling on 'on'?
b) are you allowed to use them with noise cancelling on 'off'?
c) are they on 'on' in the video?
d) why do I care?
e) why am I this annoying a beautiful evening like this?
f) is the original version of "Heartbeats" better than the cover?


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## JonnyWhoopes (Feb 3, 2011)

Johan444 said:


> To my knowledge unplugged noise cancelling headphones can use its noise cancelling abilities with batteries as a power source.


 
No. You can use them, yes, but not while they are actively canceling noise. Heck, you could even use AC powered noise cancelers as long as they weren't actively canceling noise.


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## Flipper (Feb 3, 2011)

Although I have never competed in cubing competitions I have competed in many sports both physical and mental and as far as I can see there are three completely different issues being discussed.

1. Listening to music to improve performance.
2. Blocking out noise based distractions to improve performance.
3. Cheating by obtaining help during a solve.

1. Studies have shown that listening to music around 60 bpm, especially baroque such as Vivaldi and Mozart can aid memory retention while studying and that added benefits can be obtained by listening to the same music during recall. This could easily be deemed to be an artificial aid to performance.

Rock music has been shown to be an aid to visual memory even though it has been proven to have a negative effect on recall on paper based learning of information (such as written algorithms). When the same rock music is played to people as that when they were observing a film or a physical activity it has been found that visual recall is improved. As remembering how to perform a physical task (such as cubing) is heavily linked to the visualisation of carrying out the task there would be a clear artificial aid to performance.

2. Passive noise cancelling to aid concentration does not really seem to be an issue as the methods of achieving this are fairly cheap thus keeping a level playing field as opposed to active systems that can be very expensive and would disadvantage some competitors.

3. Listening to algorithms or an auditory aide-mémoire is clearly only possible with non-passive headphones and I think point 1 has shown the reason for wanting these is already a non starter as an artificial aid. I also think that it would be too slow for normal solving and for BLD the accomplice would need a clear view of the cube and might just be spotted passing the information.

I also believe that part of competing is handling distractions, maintaining your focus and performing under pressure. Producing the fastest times under these conditions is the mark of a champion.


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## marthaurion (Feb 3, 2011)

i'd like to point out that most of the stuff about electronic noise canceling headphones is fairly moot as they are designed to reduce background noise and amplify human speech, so they'd be rather ineffective in theory


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## Sa967St (Feb 3, 2011)

Baian Liu said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hahaha I remember this.  Bill is so jokes.
The judge didn't mark his solve as a DNF unfortunately, and Dave didn't know about this until after the results were sent.


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## Dene (Feb 4, 2011)

Flipper said:


> Although I have never competed in cubing competitions I have competed in many sports both physical and mental and as far as I can see there are three completely different issues being discussed.
> 
> 1. Listening to music to improve performance.
> 2. Blocking out noise based distractions to improve performance.
> ...


 
A very informative post. Do you happen to have sources for the information you give? Preferably journal articles.


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## Elbeasto94 (Feb 4, 2011)

I agree with Dan. It could have all the OLL algorithms or any other algorithm that somebody didn't have time to learn before a competition repeating over and over. I know that seems like a lot of work, but people are willing to do the stupidist things.


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## Bryan (Feb 4, 2011)

Elbeasto94 said:


> I agree with Dan. It could have all the OLL algorithms or any other algorithm that somebody didn't have time to learn before a competition repeating over and over. I know that seems like a lot of work, but people are willing to do the stupidist things.


 
I know some people who go into 4x4 or Square-1 without knowing the parity algorithms and just hope they don't hit it. It's not like they would need an extensive list of algs.


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## Vishal (Feb 4, 2011)

Elbeasto94 said:


> I agree with Dan. It could have all the OLL algorithms or any other algorithm that somebody didn't have time to learn before a competition repeating over and over. I know that seems like a lot of work, but people are willing to do the stupidist things.


 
I know what angle you are coming from but if you had an algorithm spamming your ear through the whole solve don't you think it would mess you up.


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## marthaurion (Feb 4, 2011)

Bryan said:


> I know some people who go into 4x4 or Square-1 without knowing the parity algorithms and just hope they don't hit it. It's not like they would need an extensive list of algs.


 
I did that my first time competing in 4x4...I actually didn't get the parities somehow


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