# Do you solve edges or corners first on 3bld?



## randomtypos (Feb 26, 2013)

Do you have a specific reason why?

Personally I memo corners first, edges, then exe edges, corners, since there are less corners. I see videos of many people doing corners first so I was just wondering.

Clarification: Do you EXECUTE edges or corner first

Edit:Anyone who voted Corners, can you guys explain why it is easier for you to do corners first? I know my friend does audio pairs for edges then visually memos his corners so he can see his 3cycles easier when he exes his corners first. Just curious.


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## antoineccantin (Feb 27, 2013)

Corners first on 3BLD, edges first on all-but-last-cube in multi.


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## Noahaha (Feb 27, 2013)

Just to be clear, you meant during execution right? If that's the case I'm surprised even though it's early that so many more people voted for edges first. I thought corners first was way more popular.


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## randomtypos (Feb 27, 2013)

Yes, during exe


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## antoineccantin (Feb 27, 2013)

He clearly says: Which do you *solve* first?

edit: ninja'ed


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## Noahaha (Feb 27, 2013)

Oh I see. It's not worded like that in the poll =P

Edges first is perfect for audio I think. My memo dropped from 5 minutes to 2 minutes in a day after I started using it.


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## Mikel (Feb 27, 2013)

Noahaha said:


> Just to be clear, you meant during execution right? If that's the case I'm surprised even though it's early that so many more people voted for edges first. I thought corners first was way more popular.



You converted us. (At least you converted me)


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## antoineccantin (Feb 27, 2013)

I do a really weird almost audioish crappy thing for corner memo, so I memo the first 2 visually, which makes it easier to execute corners first.


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## randomtypos (Feb 27, 2013)

Anyone who voted Corners, can you guys explain why it is easier for you to do corners first? I know my friend does audio pairs for edges then visually memos his corners so he can see his 3cycles easier when he exes his corners first. Just curious.


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## JasonK (Feb 27, 2013)

I execute corners first. When Noah got really good I tried doing audio edges, but I discovered that I would always forget the last few pairs. For me audio corners followed by images for edges seems to work best.

Of course for multi I do edges first to make parity easier, but I use Journey for multi so that's not a problem.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 27, 2013)

For those of us who have been doing it for several years, unless they've changed, most execute corners first. The reason is that we traditionally used shorter-term memory for corners because we didn't think shorter-term memory would be sufficient to do a job as big as edges. It's only since people started regularly cracking the minute barrier that it now seems reasonable to put edges in short-term memory.

Now that we see it's possible, it's almost certainly better to put the edges in short-term memory, since they can fit and short-term memory is more reliable and requires less effort and time to memorize.

I haven't taken the plunge yet of trying to switch. I probably will someday, at which point I will regret that I can't change my vote on this poll. But for now, I had to vote for corners.

I do suspect that switching to edges (and a thousand practice solves or so) is probably all that would be required for me to become consistently sub-minute. Although I'm slow enough at execution that I will probably still then be averaging 59 seconds.


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## ottozing (Feb 27, 2013)

Corners first. My first ever success was edges first though, and if I ever get into BLD, I'll probably switch to edges first.


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## A Leman (Feb 27, 2013)

There are a few reasons I like corners first.(I realize edges first can be faster, but oh well)
1.I can use audio/tapping/visual to memorize them last and solve them first. (I don't think I can breaze over edges as easily as corners) 
2. This is consistant on big cubes so I don't have to change my order based on the cube size.
3. I am much more confident about my edge comms so I can increase my tps at the end.


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## DrKorbin (Feb 27, 2013)

In single 3x3 bld I solve edges first (the reason was described by Mike Hughey and Noahaha; in fact, Noahaha convinced me to switch from corners first).
In multi-bld, all cubes except last are solved corners first.


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## Iggy (Feb 27, 2013)

Edges first, because I prefer audio edges (they're fast and stuff).


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## amostay2004 (Feb 27, 2013)

Mike Hughey said:


> For those of us who have been doing it for several years, unless they've changed, most execute corners first. The reason is that we traditionally used shorter-term memory for corners because we didn't think shorter-term memory would be sufficient to do a job as big as edges. It's only since people started regularly cracking the minute barrier that it now seems reasonable to put edges in short-term memory.
> 
> Now that we see it's possible, it's almost certainly better to put the edges in short-term memory, since they can fit and short-term memory is more reliable and requires less effort and time to memorize.
> 
> ...



Exactly. I've thought about switching to audio edges for years but just didn't bother enough to revamp my whole memo system and practise to get good at it.


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## JianhanC (Feb 27, 2013)

I memo edges then corners, and solving corners first then edges. Trying to clean up my memo and actually use proper letter pairs, to be able to transition to comms better and for easier multi memo in future.


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## Martial (Feb 27, 2013)

With edge->corner memo + corner->edge solving, I couldn't remember my edges, so I reversed all my system (see Noah's video), and now it's easier to remember three items for corners in long term even if I memorized them quickly.
Edges in short term memory was a little harder in the beginning but now it's pretty cool


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## stoic (Feb 27, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> edges first on all-but-last-cube in multi.





DrKorbin said:


> In multi-bld, all cubes except last are solved corners first.



Why does the last cube differ?


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## antoineccantin (Feb 27, 2013)

ellwd said:


> Why does the last cube differ?



You solve the last cube as if it was a normal 3BLD.


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## stoic (Feb 27, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> You solve the last cube as if it was a normal 3BLD.



Sorry but I don't do BLD (yet) so I still don't understand the difference


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## DrKorbin (Feb 27, 2013)

ellwd said:


> Why does the last cube differ?



Cuz all cubes except the last one are memorized using long-term memory. The last one is memorized using short-term memory (i.e. like in simple 3x3 bld) and is solved first. All other cubes are memorized and executed corners first.
Another question: why don't I memorize them edges first so I can execute all cubes the same way? It is the matter of habit.


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## TMOY (Feb 27, 2013)

I solve corners first, except eventually for parity that I can fix at any moment during the solve, depending on when I can use an easy alg for that. Since I'm still using 3OP corners (still too lazy to practice BH corners seriously), the argument "edges require more info than corners" doesn't apply to me.


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## stoic (Feb 27, 2013)

DrKorbin said:


> Cuz all cubes except the last one are memorized using long-term memory. The last one is memorized using short-term memory (i.e. like in simple 3x3 bld) and is solved first. All other cubes are memorized and executed corners first.



Thanks


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Feb 27, 2013)

Corners first (with audio) then edges (with images). This thread is making me want to try audio edges again, I sucked too badly at it at first to manage it, but I might be able to do it now. If so, I'll then do edges first. It would be annoying since I switched multi order to memoing edges then corners (for all but last cube) so I memo'd in the same order, having originally memo'd corners first for multi, and then I would have to switch back to corners first and get even more confused. It would probably motivate me to practice more to fix it, so maybe not a huge issue.


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## ben1996123 (Feb 27, 2013)

corners, so I dont forget them after I've done edges.


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## PianoCube (Feb 27, 2013)

I memo corners last and solve them first because my audio memo sucks. I have big problems remembering all corners when there are more than 8 targets.


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## Sessinator (Feb 28, 2013)

I guess the way I do it isn't too popular haha. I execute edges first and corners last. I also memo in that order and use audio for edges and tapping/visual for corners. I use M2/R2 and it makes a lot more sense to me to execute edges first with that method. If I have an odd cycle and execute corners first, the edges on the R slice be off by an R2. If have an odd cycle and execute edges first, I avoid any conflict with the corners because only the M slice will be off.


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## Noahaha (Feb 28, 2013)

Sessinator said:


> tapping/visual for corners



I die a little on the inside every time I see this.


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## Sessinator (Feb 28, 2013)

Ha. Which part? The tapping, the visual, or both?


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## Noahaha (Feb 28, 2013)

Sessinator said:


> Ha. Which part? The tapping, the visual, or both?



They're both pretty horrendous, and I have no idea why they are so popular. I'm sure there are people who do better like that, but that is a much, much lower percentage than the number of people who use it. I cannot think of a single person who has sub-15 memo and uses visual or tapping primarily for either corners or edges. Visual is a good way to memo twisted/flipped pieces, but I think that for most people it's usefulness stops there. 

This is how I think visual came about:

>Let's do a blindsolve!
>But how do we memo?!?
>Idk... maybe we should just stare at it.
>Ok, seems good enough.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong and explain to me a single advantage that visual has over letters. So far I have seen no evidence that there is more than a small minority of people who remember random visual cues better than well-constructed mental images and sounds.


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## antoineccantin (Mar 1, 2013)

Noahaha said:


> They're both pretty horrendous, and I have no idea why they are so popular. I'm sure there are people who do better like that, but that is a much, much lower percentage than the number of people who use it. I cannot think of a single person who has sub-15 memo and uses visual or tapping primarily for either corners or edges. Visual is a good way to memo twisted/flipped pieces, but I think that for most people it's usefulness stops there.
> 
> This is how I think visual came about:
> 
> ...



It can be faster until you can come up with a good image within a fraction of a second. I do the first couple pieces visual since I just need to glance at them for a second before execution, and it's less to remeber for the rest of the corners.


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## Sessinator (Mar 1, 2013)

Noahaha said:


> They're both pretty horrendous, and I have no idea why they are so popular. I'm sure there are people who do better like that, but that is a much, much lower percentage than the number of people who use it. I cannot think of a single person who has sub-15 memo and uses visual or tapping primarily for either corners or edges. Visual is a good way to memo twisted/flipped pieces, but I think that for most people it's usefulness stops there.
> 
> This is how I think visual came about:
> 
> ...



I started BLD back in late 2008 when there were fewer tutorials to choose from than there are now. I did start off with audio for edges, but I decided to use tapping/visual for corners probably after reading about it somewhere on speedsolving. In less than 2 months (and before my first competition) I was pretty consistently sub 2 min with my solves, so initially I thought the way I was doing it couldn't be that bad, and I stuck with it. 

When I memorize visually, I tap the pieces as I go through and I sometimes I also say "left," "right," "back", "up," to help me remember the orientation the piece should go in the cycle. Sometimes I do get a very nice easy to memorize cycle if the pieces are oriented on the same sides in the cycle (ex. "left, right, left right, up, down"). These situations are fortunate, but not common. Most of the time I don't find a very easy cycle pattern to memorize and I get slowed down. 

If I were to teach someone how to memorize the cube blindfolded today, I wouldn't suggest this method. Recently I've been trying to wean myself off of memorize corners this way in favor of some other methods that may be faster for me in the long run. Recently I've been trying to start out improve my memo. I've seen my edge memo drop over time (and in recent practice I've gotten my edges sub 10s), but I can't say as much for corners. I'm sure some people could probably get fast memo visually, but I've come to realize I may not be one of those people, so I've started looking into other options (namely letter pairs). I probably take 2-3 times as long to memorize corners as I take to memo edges. This is frustrating, and even though I do sometimes get really easy to memorize cases, it doesn't seem to be paying off for me. If I were to get my corner memo down to where my edge memo is, I would cut my memo significantly. I'm hoping letter-pairs works out better for me.


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## PJKCuber (Oct 19, 2014)

I'm really confused on what to do first. I think corners first is better for me because I can still remember the images used in my attempt from an hour ago VU FS CB JO
Vulture Fish Cub Joe. But I want to be good at Multi BLD and for Multi BLD most people solve edges 1st. Anyway, I am weaker at solving edges than corners, so would images for edges help?


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## Goosly (Oct 19, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> But I want to be good at Multi BLD and for Multi BLD most people solve edges 1st.



It doesn't matter for multi, since you want to store everything in longtime memory anyway. While in 3BLD, you can rush whatever you are memo'ing last and solving first.


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## Hari (Oct 19, 2014)

Edges first as I learnt from Noah


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## ~Adam~ (Oct 19, 2014)

Memo edges 1st with images then corners audio. Execute corners 1st.

For MBLD memo in the same order and execute as memoed.


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## SolveThatCube (Oct 19, 2014)

Edges.


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## JasonDL13 (Oct 19, 2014)

I solve corners first, here's why:

I find it easier to remember more information in a longer time, it sounds weird but since edges are ~10 letters, I can remember it easier then corners, which is only ~8 letters.
Another reason: If there are twisted corners (which can also happen to edges, but it's more likely on corners) you can use audio to remember them.

In multi if corners doesn't come to my mind I do edges first, then I see if I remember corners.


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## moralsh (Oct 19, 2014)

Edges first, Noah's style.

In multi I just change the order of the memo, memorizing in the same order I solve (all but the last one, of course).

In 4BLD I memo corners, then edges and last audio centers and execute the other way around. Which makes me want to try to do a full 3BLD audio, I'll probably put some time into it.


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## G2013 (Oct 19, 2014)

Why is it better to solve edges first in MBLD?


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## STOCKY7 (Oct 19, 2014)

Easier for Parity


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## CuberM (Oct 21, 2014)

I do solve edges first, but I also memorize them first. I do it a kind of awkward way. I know people (noah) uses audio for edges, I think I should try that.... My memo, at the moment , is at about 2 minutes with visual memory for everything. Should I try it noah's way?


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## PJKCuber (Oct 21, 2014)

I have decided to solve corners first. When I did my 1st BLD attempt today, I was off by 4 edges because I did N instead of T. In my 2nd attempt(edges 1st), I had to repeat audio edges memo so many times that I was too tired to memo corners.


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## szalejot (Oct 21, 2014)

Corners first.

Why? There fewer corners than edges, so it easier to do audio memo on them. So I memo corners last and solve them first. This way I can have decent accuracy without spending too much time on corners memo. For me audio memo is much faster, than letter pairs, and if I solve right after memo I can use short time memory only.


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## G2013 (Oct 21, 2014)

STOCKY7 said:


> Easier for Parity


How is parity easier?


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## CuberM (Oct 22, 2014)

For M2, it's just D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D to solve parity, and the parity for corners is much longer. For Turbo, the way I do it is also much easier than the parity for corners first. On Old Pochmann, it's the same, though.


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## PJKCuber (Oct 22, 2014)

G2013 said:


> How is parity easier?


 Edges First parity is solved by doing D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D.
Corners First Parity is solved by doing R D' Y perm M2 y L2 T perm.


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## MatsBergsten (Nov 3, 2014)

I memo edges with letter pair words, corners just the (sound of) letters.
So if I do edges first I forget corner memo.


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## Antonie faz fan (Nov 3, 2014)

Edges frist, but on the other side I have done like 2 success' so I quess I don't so either of them.


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## Goosly (Nov 3, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> Corners First Parity is solved by doing R D' Y perm M2 y L2 T perm.



What? That algorithm just scrambles my cube...
Also, I do corners first and I use D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D for parity.


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## PJKCuber (Nov 17, 2014)

Goosly said:


> What? That algorithm just scrambles my cube...
> Also, I do corners first and I use D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D for parity.


You can do corners first parity with that alg, but you have to remember the last corner target longer.
BTW, by Y perm, I meant the Old Pochmann Y perm. The one without the F anf F'


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## Goosly (Nov 17, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> You can do corners first parity with that alg, but you have to remember the last corner target longer.



Longer? Longer than what? Please explain. I use it and I still don't know what you're talking about...


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## STOCKY7 (Nov 18, 2014)

I think me meant 'last' ie: You solve all but one corner (since its an odd number of targets), solve the edges, then solve the last corner (its the last thing you do - done with Y perm).

Basically doing this means you can use the shorter easier parity alg, which you would use anyway for edges first.

Ps. Edges first = Best!


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## SoySauS (Dec 15, 2014)

I memo corners, memo edges, execute edges, execute corners. So Edges first.

i think parity is easier with edges first, and I have to remember the edges stuff for less time, which is super handy since there is more of them.


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## Prabal Baishya (Sep 28, 2017)

Edges first with audio coz i learnt from Noah.


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## FastCubeMaster (Sep 28, 2017)

It'd be interesting to see this poll redone, I'm fairly sure more people solve edges first now


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## DhruvA (Sep 28, 2017)

Just started blindsolving a few months ago and I solve corners first.
I make sentences for edges and then quickly memo corners with just the letters and execute corners while I still remember them. I think that's better 'cause edges are more in number and I can decrease my memo time with that.

Also I use OP/OP so maybe edges first are better for M2 and stuff.


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## newtonbase (Sep 28, 2017)

DhruvA said:


> Just started blindsolving a few months ago and I solve corners first.
> I make sentences for edges and then quickly memo corners with just the letters and execute corners while I still remember them. I think that's better 'cause edges are more in number and I can decrease my memo time with that.
> 
> Also I use OP/OP so maybe edges first are better for M2 and stuff.


I think it's more common to do the safe memo on corners and the quick one on edges.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 28, 2017)

newtonbase said:


> I think it's more common to do the safe memo on corners and the quick one on edges.


It is now, yes. But 5 years ago it was more common to do the safe memo on edges, because it seemed like edges were too much for audio memory. Then that was proven wrong, and everyone switched.

I've fully made the switch now, but I'm still not quite as fast as I once was the old way. I assume I just need some intensive practice to get there; right now I still tend to take far too long constructing the audio memo.


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## newtonbase (Sep 29, 2017)

Mike Hughey said:


> It is now, yes. But 5 years ago it was more common to do the safe memo on edges, because it seemed like edges were too much for audio memory. Then that was proven wrong, and everyone switched.
> 
> I've fully made the switch now, but I'm still not quite as fast as I once was the old way. I assume I just need some intensive practice to get there; right now I still tend to take far too long constructing the audio memo.


I find corners to be my issue. I haven't timed splits but they feel like they take longer than edges. I certainly pause a lot more coming up with images. I'd like to do full audio but it's probably a step too far.


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## rezaqorbani (Sep 29, 2017)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RQWcuEd4pWL7egwQ00zuJDzYCKzQC6hlAdz0DH4jwWk/edit#gid=0


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## M O (Jan 3, 2019)

randomtypos said:


> Do you have a specific reason why?
> 
> Personally I memo corners first, edges, then exe edges, corners, since there are less corners. I see videos of many people doing corners first so I was just wondering.
> 
> ...


I memo edges then corners, solve corners then edges, because that way I can get the shorter corner part over with and get back to my edge memo as soon as possible. if I execute edges first, then its more likely that I will forget the end of my corner memo


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## SubZero (Jan 28, 2019)

memo edge/corner
solve corner/edge


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## FakeMMAP (Feb 11, 2019)

I currently solve corners first, and I've been doing it for the last 4 years. However I'm trying to switch to edges first, and I've already got a sub-30 mo3 on cam an a PB single of 21 somehow. audio edges can be hard at first, but if you're well isolated from distractions and you're focused it's easy even relatively early. I probably started the switch at the beginning of this month and some results are seen, however I'm still not 100% confident and my success rate isn't great, but I haven't practiced BLD a lot lately anyway. If I'm well focused I think I can do corners first or edges first with about the same speed, so that's cool. also edges first parity is just OP


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## Nathanael (Jan 12, 2020)

I'm still deciding and that's the reason I came to this thread. I believe that I should execute corners first because I do audio pairs for corners and visuals for edges because I use M2 and find it easier to switch I/S or C/W when you're using visuals. Often with audio, I don't use pairs so it could be something containing like 5 letters in one like EGaW or VAD.


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