# List of 4x4x4 edges methods



## Robert-Y (Jan 24, 2009)

Just wondering how many 4x4x4 edges methods there are. So far I know:

Methods:

6-4-2 (hardwick)
6-2-2-2 (hardwick)
Freestyle
Syuhei

2-2-2-2-2-2 variations:

hardwick (again)
avg
mine
Hiroyuke (Take)

I'm guessing there are probably more


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## AvGalen (Jan 24, 2009)

Please replace AVG with 2-2-2-2-2-2. Actually, you could replace all of those n-n-n's with "Hardwick" (I don't think he invented it, but he described it best in the past)

All of these methods are incredibly simular and I wouldn't call them methods but variations.

I would call Caging, K4, Layer-by-Layer and Reduction methods


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## MTGjumper (Jan 24, 2009)

Robert, how is your method is different (meaning, what is your method)?

Also, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call Nakaji's method "freestyle"? I worked out how to use it myself intuitively, and I know others have done the same.


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## Robert-Y (Jan 24, 2009)

MTGjumper said:


> Robert, how is your method is different (meaning, what is your method)?
> 
> Also, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call Nakaji's method "freestyle"? I worked out how to use it myself intuitively, and I know others have done the same.


Well my method is kinda similar to avg on the 4x4x4 at least (5x5x5 is kinda more different). To summarise what I do, I just put 2 edges next to each other (most of the time it's one in the UF and another one in the LF or RF), and another edge somewhere in the M layer (UB, DF, or DB). Then I slice, replace, slice back to solve 2 edges (on average). I keep doing this until I've finished or I've got exactly 2 edges left. If I do get 2 edges left, I set up and then I use one of these algs:

d2 R F' U R' F d2 or d R F' U R' F d'

I think when you get 2 edges left, it is always possible to set up using 2 moves or less, and do one of the algs above (unless I've been mistaken).

This is only my 4x4x4 edge method. If you try it on the 5x5x5, it's not as good as other methods, which is why I've added more stuff for my 5x5x5 edge method.


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## James Kobel (Jan 24, 2009)

I'm not really sure what method I use so could someone tell me what it is? I set up 1 or 2 edges to be solved then do a Uw to pair them. Then, instead of slicing back, I set up 2 more edges and do Uw until there are at most 4 edges. Then I find the quickest way to pair up the last edges. I'm pretty sure this is called chain pairing but I'm not sure.


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## AvGalen (Jan 24, 2009)

Robert, that is just 2-2-2-2-2-2
James, that is a slight variation of 2-2-2-2-2-2


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## Lucas Garron (Jan 24, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Please replace AVG with 2-2-2-2-2-2.


I disagree. I did freestyle 2-2-2-2-2-2 for a while, switched to AvG, and got faster. Not looking for that first edge per pair is fast, even if it takes a bit more moves.


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## EmersonHerrmann (Jan 24, 2009)

Syuhei's is 3-3-3-(0, 2, or 3)


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## Robert-Y (Jan 24, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Robert, that is just 2-2-2-2-2-2
> James, that is a slight variation of 2-2-2-2-2-2


What? Are you implying that this variation has been discovered before? If so, I never knew that...


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## Robert-Y (Jan 24, 2009)

EmersonHerrmann said:


> Syuhei's is 3-3-3-(0, 2, or 3)


I prefer to reference it as 3-6-(0, 2, or 3) because I think after the first 3, he fixes the centres, then he does a normal 6 edge pairing. (Maybe I'm wrong, but I swear that's what I saw in his tutorial)


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## AvGalen (Jan 24, 2009)

Lucas Garron said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > Please replace AVG with 2-2-2-2-2-2.
> ...



AvG is exactly the same as 2-2-2-2-2-2 on a 4x4x4. The only difference between freestyle 2-2-2-2-2-2 and AVG 2-2-2-2-2-2 is the use of a fixed "buffer" so you waste a couple of moves, but you have less cube-rotations and better look-ahead.

AvG on a 5x5x5 is exactly the same as on a 4x4x4 only the fixed "buffer" is a semi-pair.



Robert-Y said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > Robert, that is just 2-2-2-2-2-2
> ...


Implying that which variation has been discovered before?
Chris Hardwick described edges a long time ago http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve2.html and I don't see any difference between your method and AvG 2-2-2-2-2-2.
I have found James variation before. It uses slightly less moves, but look-ahead is not as good and there are some more problem-cases


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## Robert-Y (Jan 24, 2009)

@Arnaud: The difference between my edge method and yours is what you set up first and last. Maybe you could call my method a variation of yours but I developed mine before I knew about yours. I actually did use to think they were the same but they are slightly different, trust me


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## fanwuq (Jan 24, 2009)

I was just about to make a thread like this!

I'm using 6-2-2-2. I also use freestyle 2-2-2-2-2-2 and 3-6-2 sometimes.


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## DavidWoner (Jan 24, 2009)

I use a variation of 2-2-2-2-2-2 that I discovered on my own. I guess its similar to robert's but we set up in different order. I set up one pair on the M-slice, with UF for the buffer. Then I set up the second pair using [R,L,D,d] move set. Then I pair using a single comm and its mirror (Lw U R U' Rw and Rw U' L U Rw').

example solve(lowercase is wide turn, so r=Rw):

scramble: U F R D B2 Fw F2 Uw' B' Fw' U2 L2 F L' Rw2 F2 Rw' F R2 D' L2 R Uw2 R D' U2 Fw2 L2 R' D' F' R2 Uw B' Fw2 L2 F' L Rw2 B'

opp centers: x2 r2 U' x' U r' x' U r U2 r'

rest of centers: y' F' x' U' r U' r2 / F' x' U r U l2 U2 r / x2 U r U r' l' U2 l

pair 1: x R' F' R' / l U R U' r

pair 2: R B R 3D' / r U' L' U r'

pair 3: L' U' R' x / l U R U' r

pair 4: x' R U R' 3D' / r U' L' U r'

9th edge: L' U' B L / r U' L' U r'

last 3: 3D' / l U R U' r

I ran through that like 5 times so I hope its all correct. I avg 20-25 seconds for edges with this method.


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## AvGalen (Jan 24, 2009)

Robert-Y said:


> @Arnaud: The difference between my edge method and yours is what you set up first and last. Maybe you could call my method a variation of yours but I developed mine before I knew about yours. I actually did use to think they were the same but they are slightly different, trust me



I don't understand why you say "trust me". Why not explain it?

How would you solve this scramble?

Scramble (57 moves in total, but a wrote them in an easy to follow manner. small letters mean wide turns)
r U r' U r U2 r'
F' U
l' U2 l U l' U l
L2 R2 F2 B2

r U r' U r U2 r'
F' U
l' U2 l U l' U l
L R' F2 D' B2

r U r' U r U2 r'
F' U
l' U2 l U l' U l

I would do (my buffer is uLF, so I pair on the front E-slice.):
B2 R2 B', d R U R' d'
B R2, d R' D' R d'
R' B', d F' U2 F d' 
R2 B', d F' U2 F d' 
F D' z', d F D' F' d'
R, d R U' R' F' U2 F d'

For 6-4-2 it would be
B2 R2 y, R2 y, SKIP!!!!, d
R U2 R' y', R F' R' F y', F' U' F, d'
B R2 y, F D2 F', d
F' U2 F y', U R U' R', d'
R y, d2 R U' R' F' U2 F d2

Vault312, I tried you example, but centers don't seem to work. The two opposites work, then it goes bad. What do you mean with small letter turns?


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## cubacca1972 (Jan 24, 2009)

I don't know how to classify my edge solve method, but it goes like this:

After solving two opposite centers and solving the corners, build edge pairs one at a time and direct solve them until two opposite sides are solved (L and R).

Next, sort the l edge cubies and r edge cubies, so that they are in their appropriate layer (1 of 7 algorithms).

Finally, solve all 4 remaining edge pairs (1 of 8 algorithms). Usually, an l or r layer move will be required to align the edge pairs.

You can see the algorithms here:

http://cubacca1972.googlepages.com/alternatephase2:solvetheremainingedgecub


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## Robert-Y (Jan 24, 2009)

Ah I feel stupid lol. I thought I understood avg, NOW I think I understand avg and now I think our variations aren't as similar as I thought they were. I was talking to Dan Cohen a few minutes ago, he basically uses something similar to me. My method involves many cube rotations. I'll post a solution to how I would do your scramble in a couple of minutes. I'm gonna eat dinner now.


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## fanwuq (Jan 24, 2009)

Arnaud's scramble, my method:

U2/ U'L'U/ x2LUL'U'/ l' 9
R'FRF'/ xU'R2U/ xU'R'U/ r 20
D/ l'/ UL2U'/ r 26
L'U'/ r/ FR2F'/ r' 33
U'L/ x'dRF'UR'Fu' 42

6-2-2-2 M-slice.
After watching arnaud's solution, I'm liking 6-4-2. One thing I hate about 6 pairing is when there are 3- cycles, it really sucks. It takes me a while to realize it when I see that situation. I usually continue and solve 5 edges instead. But now I think I realize if you do a 2 pair method, you end up solving all 3 edges. So now, when I see it, I should solve as 2-6-2. That would actually skip a step.


my solve replayed on Lucas's really cool applet


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## AvGalen (Jan 24, 2009)

cubacca1972: I would call that a different method. What times do you get with it?
Robert-Y: I will look at your solutions tomorrow
fanwuq: 6-4-2 can be really nice (like this example) or horrible. On average 2-2-2-2-2-2 is faster and much more consistent.

I hope everyone uses my scramble if they want to compare their edge-pairing method. The scramble keeps centers solved and can be performed really fast.


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## Robert-Y (Jan 24, 2009)

Ok I'll go through it in good detail

R=Red
O=Orange
Y=Yellow
G=Green
B=Blue
W=White

(Scramble with white on top and green at the front)

1st pair: I can see the red and yellow pair in front of me so I do z' R U to set up the RYs. The RY in the LFU has to replace the OY in the UFL so I need to find the other YO edge. It's in the BL slot, so I simply do B to place it correctly in the M layer. Then I simply use slice, replace, and slice back: r2' (slice), U L' U' (replace), r2 (slice back), to fix RYs and OYs.

2nd pair: Searching around, I can see the GYs, so I set them up by doing x U'. The GY in the LFU has to replace the GO in the UFL so I try to find the other GO edge which is in the RF slot. To place it in the M layer, I do R2 B. Then I fix the GYs and GOs by doing r' U L' U' r.

3rd pair: Immediately after the 2nd pair of edges, I can see the OW edges and to set them up, I just do U. The OW in the RFU has to replace the RW in the UFR. The other RW is in the RD slot. To place it in the M layer, I do D'. To fix the OWs and RWs, I do l' U' R U l.

4th pair: BWs. Set up: x R'. BW in RFU must replace BR in UFR. Other BR is in LF, so to place in M layer: L D. To fix BWs and BRs: l' U' R U l.

5th pair: BYs. Set up: x z' U'. BY in UFL must replace BO in UFL. Other BO is in UL, so to place in M layer: L' B' L. To fix BYs and BOs: r2' U L' U' r2.

6th pair (last two). GRs and GWs. y R to set up. d R F' U R' F d' to fix.

This is a basic example and doesn't cover "special avg like cases" and the problem(s) where you set up two edges which contain the same coloured edges e.g. two edges with BO and BR.

Hope that helped, (sorry if there are mistakes anywhere.)


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## EmersonHerrmann (Jan 24, 2009)

Robert-Y said:


> EmersonHerrmann said:
> 
> 
> > Syuhei's is 3-3-3-(0, 2, or 3)
> ...



I think you're right Robert, because he does Uw and that his first three edges, then a normal 6 edge pairing (with possible edge pairing "parity", where everything doesn't work out perfectly), and then the last 2 or 3 (or 0). So, yeah, 3-6-(0, 2, or 3) makes more sense.


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## Lucas Garron (Jan 24, 2009)

My Solve of AvG's scramble.
Something I also slice r' first. In actuality, I also hold DF more at an (x/2)-turn up.
The 2nd-to-last pair was based on going-slow lookahead.


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## TMOY (Jan 25, 2009)

cubacca1972 said:


> I don't know how to classify my edge solve method, but it goes like this:
> After solving two opposite centers and solving the corners, build edge pairs one at a time and direct solve them until two opposite sides are solved (L and R).
> Next, sort the l edge cubies and r edge cubies, so that they are in their appropriate layer (1 of 7 algorithms).
> Finally, solve all 4 remaining edge pairs (1 of 8 algorithms). Usually, an l or r layer move will be required to align the edge pairs.
> ...


It's just another variant of the cage method.


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## AvGalen (Jan 25, 2009)

Robert-Y said:


> ...5th pair: BYs. Set up: x z' U'. BY in UFL must replace BO in UFL. Other BO is in UL, so to place in M layer: L' B' L. To fix BYs and BOs: r2' U L' U' r2....(sorry if there are mistakes anywhere.)


Just one mistake. The L' B' L should be L' B L

Your method is indeed a 2-2-2-2-2-2, but without a "fixed buffer". The disadvantage is that you need to find two pieces at once which is much harder to do. If you compare your solution to Lucas solution you will see that they are almost identical (technique, not moves) but that he uses a fixed buffer

Lucas, I liked how you did the last 4 pairs as 1-3 instead of 2-2. I almost never do that in a speedsolve though.
I wonder why you choose to do the 4th pairing as FR *z' B'* r FRF'r' instead of F R *F'* r F R F' r'


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## DavidWoner (Jan 25, 2009)

Arnaud: small means wide turn. I will look through it again.

Here is my try at Arnaud's scramble, small letter means wide turn.


y' L' 3D / l' U R U' r

U F' L2 / r U' L' U r'

F' R2 / l' U R U' r

x2 B' R2 U y / r U' L' U r'

x' R B R 3D' / r U' L' U r'

D x2 z u R U R' F R' F' R u


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## AvGalen (Jan 25, 2009)

Vault312 said:


> Arnaud: small means wide turn. I will look through it again.
> 
> Here is my try at Arnaud's scramble, small letter means wide turn.
> 
> ...



y' L' 3D / l U R U' r doesn't work. Do you mean y' L' 3D / l' U R U' r


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## fanwuq (Jan 25, 2009)

After looking at all the solves (people, please check your solutions in Lucas's applet), I liked Lucas's method the best. My recognition really sucks, so using a fixed buffer for good lookahead really helps.
Before, I do a 6 pairing, then something similar to Rob for finish 2 at a time, except my way is even worse because I only look for 1 piece at a time while Rob sets up both pairs. 
Perhaps I can still start with 6 pairing, but end with Lucas style 2 pairing?


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## Robert-Y (Jan 25, 2009)

I had this idea of a 6-2-2-2 variation, but I'm not used to 6-2-2-2 so I wasn't particularly good at it. What you do is:

1. Fix 6 edges normally.

2. Place them all in the D layer and on the BL and BR slots. (If there are more than 6 edges solved, it doesn't matter, just as long as there are solved edges in D layer and on the BL and BR slots)

3. Use classic hardwick 2 pair chain solving to fix the rest of the edges. (The advantage of this is that you only have to look on the U layer for the edges and you don't need to use any D moves.)


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