# Is m2 worth it?



## Rubiks560 (Feb 9, 2010)

Hey guys I was curios is learning m2 worth it? will it speed me up by much? right now I use the T perm and set up moves for edges


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## Kirjava (Feb 9, 2010)

dunno lol


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## shelley (Feb 9, 2010)

Nah. Tons of people have learned M2 and a lot of people have spent lots of time and effort documenting the method. Of course it's not worth learning. You're better off spending your time asking silly questions on forums.


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## DavidWoner (Feb 9, 2010)

There's nothing to learn. They are basically the same thing.


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## Edward (Feb 9, 2010)

I don't know, you tell me.


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## Toad (Feb 9, 2010)

shelley said:


> Nah. Tons of people have learned M2 and a lot of people have spent lots of time and effort documenting the method. Of course it's not worth learning. You're better off spending your time asking silly questions on forums.



Listen to Shelley - Creator of perfectly serious and informative cartoon material.


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## Rubiks560 (Feb 9, 2010)

Really? hmm thats what you use isn't it?


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## Toad (Feb 9, 2010)

Rubiks560 said:


> Really? hmm thats what you use isn't it?



Nobody uses it.


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## Rubiks560 (Feb 9, 2010)

Nobody uses m2?


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## Edward (Feb 9, 2010)

Rubiks560 said:


> Nobody uses m2?



Nope...


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## Rubiks560 (Feb 9, 2010)

Ah huh...


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## adimare (Feb 10, 2010)

It takes me a little bit less time to execute M2 than R U R' U' R' F' R2 U' R' U' R U R' F', but hey, that's just me.


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## MichaelP. (Feb 10, 2010)

One time, while I was learning M2, a light in my room burnt out, and my dad said I couldn't get a new one. So now, I'm never going to learn M2, because bad things happen to good people.


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## dannyz0r (Feb 10, 2010)

When you have to ask if it's worth it. It's not worth it.


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## yeee707 (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm also starting to learn M2, and it seems like the special cases with the middle slice shooting and flipped centers seems a little hard to remember. But that's just me.


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## EmersonHerrmann (Feb 10, 2010)

adimare said:


> It takes me a little bit less time to execute M2 than R U R' U' R' F' R2 U' R' U' R U R' F', but hey, that's just me.



Why can't you just use 3 Cycle?

Whatever, I don't normally do bld but I'm getting into it a little more. You could use it as a stepping stone to something better if you want. It's your choice. Why not try to find someone who uses M2 and see if they are fast or not? (of course, I mean, research before asking.)


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## Swordsman Kirby (Feb 10, 2010)

EmersonHerrmann said:


> Why not try to find someone who uses M2 and see if they are fast or not?



Former WR holders used it.


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## peterbat (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm not sure about this, but I think that M6 has replaced M2 as the most widely used method for bld. So I would go with m6.


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## Cyrus C. (Feb 10, 2010)

peterbat said:


> I'm not sure about this, but I think that M6 has replaced M2 as the most widely used method for bld. So I would go with m6.



Now your confusing me.


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## qqwref (Feb 10, 2010)

Haha, people still talk about M2? I thought everyone knew that was outdated. All the good people use M3 now - it's 50% more efficient.


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## Lucas Garron (Feb 10, 2010)

qqwref said:


> Haha, people still talk about M2? I thought everyone knew that was outdated. All the good people use M3 now - it's 50% more efficient.


Have you tried z2?


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## peterbat (Feb 10, 2010)

Don't listen to qqwref, he's just being dumb.

But I just did ten bld solves, five using m6 and five using m2.

m2: 2:26.84, 2:20.58, 2:39.11, DNF, 3:30
m6: 1:57.02, 1:44.38, 1:28.15, 2:01.78, 1:50.95


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## Swordsman Kirby (Feb 10, 2010)

Lucas Garron said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > Haha, people still talk about M2? I thought everyone knew that was outdated. All the good people use M3 now - it's 50% more efficient.
> ...



I should make a video of that sometime.


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## Rubiks560 (Feb 10, 2010)

I have never heard of m6


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## LewisJ (Feb 10, 2010)

m6 is basically m2 with a lot more algs to make it faster, very hard to learn. I prefer the e2 method, it is a lot less algs and easier to learn with no difficult cases.


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## Rubiks560 (Feb 10, 2010)

Could you link me to e2 and m6?


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## dannyz0r (Feb 10, 2010)

It would take too much effort to create tutorials.


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## peterbat (Feb 10, 2010)

Rubiks560 said:


> Could you link me to e2 and m6?



here is a website on m6.


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## Rubiks560 (Feb 10, 2010)

IS there a way to make it so it's english?


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## shelley (Feb 10, 2010)

Rubiks560 said:


> IS there a way to make it so it's english?




http://translate.google.com/


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## qqwref (Feb 10, 2010)

peterbat said:


> Don't listen to qqwref, he's just being dumb.



You just can't appreciate the beauty of 4-cycles! M6 is a subset of M3 anyway, you're just doing each algorithm twice instead of once. Waste of moves if you ask me.


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## peterbat (Feb 10, 2010)

qqwref said:


> peterbat said:
> 
> 
> > Don't listen to qqwref, he's just being dumb.
> ...



But if you're going to use 4-cycles, you may as well just use the E method.


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## shelley (Feb 10, 2010)

Has anyone tried M4? It's just like 3OP, but you do an M4 after every cycle. It combines the benefits of 3OP and M2, but with double the efficiency of M2!


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## MichaelP. (Feb 10, 2010)

I prefer memoless BLD. You repeat the devils algorithm as fast as you can until your friend cough's, letting you know your done.


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## Ashmnafa (Feb 10, 2010)

Has anyone tried M6 one-handed? It is 40% more efficient than M6, because you have to choose the optimal solution so your hand doesn't hurt.


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## adimare (Feb 10, 2010)

but why male models?


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## peterbat (Feb 10, 2010)

We can't forget about ME2, which is a hybrid between M2 and E2.


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## LewisJ (Feb 10, 2010)

peterbat said:


> We can't forget about ME2, which is a hybrid between M2 and E2.



Yea ME2 is what I'm currently learning after starting with the very easy E2 method.

There is a page that shows you how to do E2 on the wiki.


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## Lucas Garron (Feb 10, 2010)

peterbat said:


> We can't forget about ME2, which is a hybrid between M2 and E2.


If you're going to go for M2 variants like that, I recommend R2/M2. R2 for edges is crazy cool enough, but M2 for corners is INSANE.


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## Neo63 (Feb 10, 2010)

shelley said:


> Has anyone tried M4? It's just like 3OP, but you do an M4 after every cycle. It combines the benefits of 3OP and M2, but with double the efficiency of M2!



yeah I've been practicing M4 for a while now and I have to say it's much better than M2. Maybe I should try the hybrid methods?


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## yeee707 (Feb 10, 2010)

It's all about sweet 16's not M16's! -Flight of the Conchords


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## rubiknewbie (Feb 10, 2010)

I made a hole in the blindfold. It helps tremendously.


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## Sakarie (Feb 10, 2010)

I've tried very much, including E2, M3 and KBCM, but I found that Y2KM6 is the absolutely best method!

Basically it's the same thing as normal M6, but you have this logo on all the stickers:







Those stickers gives you the opportunity to skip all the corners 1/2000 of the solves.


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## Toad (Feb 10, 2010)

I've heard about a really advanced version of M2 called "L2 R2 x2" ...

Does anyone use it and is it good?


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## Toad (Feb 10, 2010)

MistArts said:


> No one uses S2?



I use S2 for corners but I'm currently experimenting with E2 and "L2 R2 x2" for edges...


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## MichaelP. (Feb 10, 2010)

I sometimes use R2D2. He tells me what to do.


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## Toad (Feb 10, 2010)

MichaelP. said:


> I sometimes use R2D2. He tells me what to do.



Which variation do you use?

Original or the extended variation (the one with flying things ) ?


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## MichaelP. (Feb 10, 2010)

randomtoad said:


> MichaelP. said:
> 
> 
> > I sometimes use R2D2. He tells me what to do.
> ...



A hybrid of the two. (They levitate)


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## rjohnson_8ball (Feb 11, 2010)

<serious> I prefer 3 cycle still, because I am not good yet at memorizing positions and orientations together. M2 is faster than Classic Pochmann (T-perm) but you need to keep track of the even/odd state that M2 gives; in the odd state, you need to do the FU algorithm for BD and BD algorithm for FU.</serious>


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## LewisJ (Feb 11, 2010)

rjohnson_8ball said:


> <serious> I prefer 3 cycle still, because I am not good yet at memorizing positions and orientations together. M2 is faster than Classic Pochmann (T-perm) but you need to keep track of the even/odd state that M2 gives; in the odd state, you need to do the FU algorithm for BD and BD algorithm for FU.</serious>



Or just learn a few more algs and do it macky's way.
http://cubefreak.net/BLD/M2_guide.html


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## Micael (Feb 11, 2010)

rjohnson_8ball said:


> <serious> I prefer 3 cycle still, because I am not good yet at memorizing positions and orientations together. M2 is faster than Classic Pochmann (T-perm) but you need to keep track of the even/odd state that M2 gives; in the odd state, you need to do the FU algorithm for BD and BD algorithm for FU.</serious>



With an adequate memo system, M2 is less to memorize than 3 cycle. And, with that adequate system, there is no problem at all to keep track of the state of M slice. Person-Action is a good system for this. Combined with method of loci it is powerfull. I think it is exactly what Chuck use (he did 50/54 multi). Robert, I think it is time for you to consider M2 and that memo system. Pretty sure you will break 5min with that.

Yes, M2 worth it.


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## Neo63 (Feb 11, 2010)

Micael said:


> With an adequate memo system, M2 is less to memorize than 3 cycle. And, with that adequate system, there is no problem at all to keep track of the state of M slice. Person-Action is a good system for this. Combined with method of loci it is powerfull. I think it is exactly what Chuck use (he did 50/54 multi). Robert, I think it is time for you to consider M2 and that memo system. Pretty sure you will break 5min with that.
> 
> Yes, M2 worth it.



I have been practicing M2 for a while now adn I can solve all edges with my eyes open consistently sub-30. I'm just having trouble with memo...help?


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## LewisJ (Feb 11, 2010)

Neo63 said:


> Micael said:
> 
> 
> > With an adequate memo system, M2 is less to memorize than 3 cycle. And, with that adequate system, there is no problem at all to keep track of the state of M slice. Person-Action is a good system for this. Combined with method of loci it is powerfull. I think it is exactly what Chuck use (he did 50/54 multi). Robert, I think it is time for you to consider M2 and that memo system. Pretty sure you will break 5min with that.
> ...



Like he suggested, person-action pairs. Make 24 people and 24 actions, each one corresponding to an edge sticker position. Each pair of edges is a person doing a thing. Read more in the blindfolded forum.


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## Chuck (Feb 11, 2010)

Rubiks560 said:


> Nobody uses m2?



Nobody uses m2.
I use M2, by the way.


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## MichaelP. (Feb 11, 2010)

Chuck said:


> Rubiks560 said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody uses m2?
> ...



And Chuck's not even good, I heard he missed 4 cubes in one multiBLD.


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## rubiknewbie (Feb 11, 2010)

LewisJ said:


> Neo63 said:
> 
> 
> > Micael said:
> ...



I need to improve my memory system. I form a sentence with 4 letters, sometimes I struggle to make a sentence. I need to think of more actions, adjectives and people for more letters, especially for like V, X, Z etc.

It's not often you get easy cases like Xena Wants Kyle's D*** .


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## Faz (Feb 11, 2010)

rubiknewbie said:


> LewisJ said:
> 
> 
> > Neo63 said:
> ...



But X and W are the same piece?


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## Anthony (Feb 11, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> rubiknewbie said:
> 
> 
> > It's not often you get easy cases like Xena Wants Kyle's D*** .
> ...



Not necessarily, but it is in a lot of people's lettering schemes (including mine).


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## Tim Major (Feb 11, 2010)

Would m2 be like, double layer turns? Like r2? Except triple layer I guess. I don't think I know anyone solving the edges using x2 and x'2 rotations.

Learn M2 if you want speed, with not too much effort.


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## driftboy_wen (Feb 11, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Would m2 be like, double layer turns? Like r2? Except triple layer I guess. I don't think I know anyone solving the edges using x2 and x'2 rotations.
> 
> Learn M2 if you want speed, with not too much effort.



i do swap edges with x2


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## Haste_cube (Feb 11, 2010)

I flip FD edge with z2 x'


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## adimare (Feb 11, 2010)

Is it possible to solve the cube blindfolded using only x, x', y, y', z and z'? I'm really fast with the algs that use those, so I'm interested in finding a good method to solve the cube using only those moves.


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## Lucas Garron (Feb 11, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Would m2 be like, double layer turns?


m2 is the same as M2 on a 3x3x3.



adimare said:


> Is it possible to solve the cube blindfolded using only x, x', y, y', z and z'? I'm really fast with the algs that use those, so I'm interested in finding a good method to solve the cube using only those moves.


z2 is a pretty good way to do this, although there are a couple of setup moves to learn.


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## Micael (Feb 11, 2010)

Neo63 said:


> Micael said:
> 
> 
> > With an adequate memo system, M2 is less to memorize than 3 cycle. And, with that adequate system, there is no problem at all to keep track of the state of M slice. Person-Action is a good system for this. Combined with method of loci it is powerfull. I think it is exactly what Chuck use (he did 50/54 multi). Robert, I think it is time for you to consider M2 and that memo system. Pretty sure you will break 5min with that.
> ...



When I was doing 3 cycle I was using visual memo. Then I quit it for M2/R2 and found it harder to do visual. Tracking stickers make more complex pattern than just tracking cubies. May be that is why you have trouble. Image + loci highly worth it.


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## Micael (Feb 11, 2010)

rubiknewbie said:


> *I need to improve my memory system.* I form a sentence with 4 letters, sometimes I struggle to make a sentence. I need to think of more actions, adjectives and people for more letters, especially for like V, X, Z etc.
> 
> It's not often you get easy cases like Xena Wants Kyle's D*** .



No, you need more practice. If your PB si 38:48.20 as said in your signature, then you obviously not pushed that method. I garantee you can sub-3 with normal practice. After that, you will see if it is good or not.


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## rubiknewbie (Feb 12, 2010)

Micael said:


> rubiknewbie said:
> 
> 
> > *I need to improve my memory system.* I form a sentence with 4 letters, sometimes I struggle to make a sentence. I need to think of more actions, adjectives and people for more letters, especially for like V, X, Z etc.
> ...



Yes I need tons of practice. Down to 14 min now. I also realised my memory system was pretty silly as I did not use A (vowel!) and F which are easy letters to remember. Now I use A in place of the V sticker and F in place of the X sticker .

I also kept getting confused with parity and FU/UF-BD/DF swap which is finally clearing up now. I am still slow with FU, BD and BU algorithms which I need to practice. Also those misoriented pieces algorithms which I need to get more confident in executing. A lot to improve!


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