# Multiple-blindfolded



## DennisStrehlau (Feb 9, 2008)

Okay everybody!
This is a new Thread for everything about multi-bld, wich is my absolute favourite cathegorie and i didn't find a THREAD about that...so here it is

We can write about your memo methods in multi-bld, you times in memorizing 5, 10 or more cubes, your plans for multi-bld in the next competitons, competitions where multi-bld will be or HAS TO BE and so on...

So i think and hope it will be fun for all of us and i hope that even MORE peolpe will do multi-bld at home and on competitions of course...

Have fun everybody...Greetings to all of you...Dennis


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## Dene (Feb 9, 2008)

I'll start! I hope to be able to do 2 cubes BLD by the end of March!


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 9, 2008)

Great...
what's your problem by solving 2 when you can do 1?
In the beginning, my problem was, that there were the same symbols for each piece, so i was often confused...
You'll do it


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## Swordsman Kirby (Feb 9, 2008)

I never really understood the power of stories... I find it even harder to memorize. I've only done 3 cubes multi-BLD.


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## MiloD (Feb 9, 2008)

I did 2 cubes on my first try with visual memo which I would recommend trying just for practice....I don't know why but I felt more comfortable doing the same steps on each cube i.e. EO on cube 1 then EO on cube 2 etc....

I finished a PAO spreadsheet in excel and just need to get use to it then I can go for more cubes. I really want to come up with something I like more though. Maybe something that involves music or foods...or i can use a different system for each cube to not get confused.

I noticed all the Multi BLDers organize their cubes at the start. Are they grouping them by which piece is in the UF slot or somthing like that?


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 9, 2008)

well i also organize the cubes at the beginning...
i search for the blue/red piece, because the slot, where the blue/red has to go in, is my start-point and so i just look, if there is any cube where THIS piece is already solved ( matter what orientation it has) and the cubes, where this is the case, i put to the right (with a small space to the other cubes, as you can see on the pics for example), because i have to do one step at the beginning of the solve then and i do not have to memorize THAT step, cause i know, that this is one of the "cubes on the right"...
well I also organize cubes in one line but in two different groups ( near to me ant not THAT bear to me)...the cubes near to me are "good", cause i do not have to do 2 special steps before doing the corners after the edges, so i do not have to memorize that, too, cause i know in wich "group" they are...it's my own system and i didn't find any else cuber who did that, but i like that
Greetings...Dennis


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## pajodaep (Feb 9, 2008)

@ DennisStrehlau, nice job on the belgian open 2008! btw, what method do you use in memorizing all the cubes? i've tried the roman room, but i can only get as far as 3 cubes.


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## Karthik (Feb 9, 2008)

I just got my first 5/5 in this week's competition.This was my second attempt at 5 cubes.First was 3/5 with misoriented edges.I use PAO for memo.


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 9, 2008)

Well when i memorize the cubes, i use a story...sometimes VERY long, when there are 16 cubes for example (my best and most that i ever tried)...so the story goes from one cube to the other, without a stop...but i know, when one cube is solved and then move on to the next...i do that, because it is easier than memorizing many small stories, cause you coul forget the beginning of a "new" story...it works great for me


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## alexc (Feb 9, 2008)

Hey Dennis,

Congratulations on that 10/10 multi bld!  I am also very interested in multi bld. I just need to put in the center caps to my new DIY and I can try two cubes. I am going to order another DIY soon, so I can then try three. I hope to one day do around ten, more if I can handle it.  

Alex


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## alexc (Feb 9, 2008)

Sorry for the double post, but how do you use stories Dennis? Do you use a PAO system and make it into a story or do you use letter pair images or whatever? What's your execution method, too? Thanks!


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## Pedro (Feb 9, 2008)

well, I've done 3 and 4 successfully, both videos on youtube (my channel -> http://www.youtube.com/user/PedroSG)

I tried 5 just once or twice...wasn't very far, but some mistakes here and there...

I use the Major System for CP and PA for the edges

need to do it more often(again)...before I got 3, I was doing like almost a try per day...now it's ben a few weeks since my last try


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 9, 2008)

well for every piece there are images and those images, i put into a story...
for example one piece is "buggy" and the next is table-->a buggy drives over a table to a...and so on...
my execution method is the pochmann-method, not M2, i mean the
T-Permutation...also pochmann-corners...

@pedro: go on with multi-bld...wasn't it fun for you?

Greetings...Dennis


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## Jacco (Feb 9, 2008)

I'm quite new into (multi)blind solving, I've done about 4 attempts at 2 cubes multiblind, none of them succeeded (best attempt was 1 solved, other cube 2 edges switched). Perhaps it is because of my very inefficient memory method. 
Dennis, I'm gonna try using images for pieces too, it sounds very interesting!


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## Pedro (Feb 9, 2008)

DennisStrehlau said:


> @pedro: go on with multi-bld...wasn't it fun for you?
> 
> Greetings...Dennis



yeah, it's a lot of fun to take off the blindfold and see all those cubes solved 

it's just that I'm being lazy recently...now I'm in vacation, so I'll work on it more


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 9, 2008)

@jacco: yes, the story-method is really a great method i think...everybody will see, wich method is the right for himself, so you'll see... 
Good luck!

@pedro:yes, that's what i mean...taking off the blindfold and see ALL cubes solved Maybe wee meet in a competition one day, i hope so

Greetings...Dennis


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## alexc (Feb 9, 2008)

Hello again,

I have decided to try your story method, Dennis, for regular and multi bld. When you say you have images for each piece, how many images were you talking about? You aren't like Matyas (500+ images per piece) are you? I'm thinking maybe 5-10 images per piece? Also, if you have the same piece but on different cubes do you use a different image for each one to avoid confusion?


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 9, 2008)

@alexc: HI i have different images for each piece, but i do not know, how many images i have for each piece. i also invent new images for the pieces while memorizing, you can do that, if you have many images for a piece...for example: one image is water and when it dosn't make any sence in the story, so it is hard to memorize, i invent a surfboard, cause when i solve the cube later, i know: aha, that must be the piece for water, cause it is nearly the same...same enough, to know what piece it stands for, you know
so i do not have to have many images, cause i can just invent new ones

Greetings...Dennis


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## alexc (Feb 9, 2008)

Ok, yeah that makes sense.


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## AvGalen (Feb 9, 2008)

I don't really like mutli-blind because I am not good at regular blind. 1 cube takes me over 5 minutes, 2 cubes over 20 minutes and 3 cubes took me 50 minutes (with small errors, never succesfull)

My first succesfull competition blindfold was 2/2 on multi-blind. I had tried (8) regular blind attempts, but none were succesfull. It got me the Dutch NR and the nr 7 rank on the WCA last year. Now, everybody is much better and I haven't improved 

I am going to use this tactic:
I do the multi-blind on the weekly competition every week. If I get them all, I will do one more the next week. Hopefully I can do 10 by the end of this year.

I think I will change methods pretty soon because I do Orient edges, Orient Corners, Permute Corners, Permute Edges and that means I have more info to memorize than a "non-orient-first" solver.

I don't have a real memory system. I just use whatever comes up to memorize. Sometimes that's numbers, sometimes it's letters/words, sometimes it's visual...


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## Dene (Feb 9, 2008)

DennisStrehlau said:


> Great...
> what's your problem by solving 2 when you can do 1?
> In the beginning, my problem was, that there were the same symbols for each piece, so i was often confused...
> You'll do it



Actually, I've never tried multi-BLD, and I've only ever done normal BLD no more than 20 attempts (maybe 50% success rate). Thus I am slow (about 5 mins). I might actually try multi-BLD later today for the weekly comp just for the sake of it ^^. Actually, I set the end of March as my target as I don't have much time to pratise BLD, and I was going to use my mornings at University before lectures to practise BLD in a quiet place in the library or something... But, still I'll give it a shot later!


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 10, 2008)

that's very good...try try try...never give up...
@ArnaudvG: i think i will try 10 cubes tomorrow for the weekly comp.
i never knew, what this weekly comp. is but now i know it, cause i was looking around on the page a bit is it okay, if i try another one with 10 tomorrow, after having done 5 today for the comp.?

Greetings...Dennis


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## Dene (Feb 10, 2008)

Well, that did NOT go well, lol. Complete botch up. Using the same room for memo probably didn't help either  . But that wouldn't have mattered either way. The attempt I made at corners was abysmal and I don't memo them using images anyway...19 minutes of my life spent doing almost completely nothing, never mind


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## alexc (Feb 10, 2008)

Hey Dennis, I have another question about your memo. Do you use locations with your stories, (Roman Rooms or Journey Method) or do you just come up with a location based on the story? Also, how do you know when you are done with the corners, edges, or a whole cube? Do you have specific images that signal the end of them? Thank you so much! (I think that by next week I can try my first attempt. I'll post the results.)


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 10, 2008)

@Dene:
yes, but i mean, that it is very good, not to give up, what you are hopefúlly doin

@alexc:no, i do not have a location for my story...i just memorize the pictures by having some verbs between the images, so it is just a story, without any location or sth.
Well, i do corners at last and when the next image is an image for an edge, i know, that i have to go on with the next cube and that it is solved now

Greetings...Dennis


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## Dene (Feb 10, 2008)

I have no intention of giving up  . I of course, never expected that first attempt to go well, and thanks to that crappy first scramble of the competition, I really got thrown off. It will be a while before I try again, but I promise I will have it by the end of March!


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 10, 2008)

To be honest, I don't really like multi-BLD very much. Well, actually, the truth is that I dread each attempt up until I do it. Then, when I'm finished, I'm usually very happy with the result (and it's nice to see all the solved cubes), but then I don't want to try again. However, at the beginning of the year I decided to do the same thing Arnaud is doing, and try one more than I've ever done successfully before each week, and I just got 5 this week! So it's 6 next week. I'm hoping for 20 by the end of the year, but it's starting to take too long since I'm so slow.

Karthik, congratulations on getting a 5th cube. I was hoping I'd beat you this week because I had 5 cubes and you didn't. Oh well, congratulations.

I use Roman Rooms, one per cube, and I go in the order that I created the rooms. I use images by pairs for the permutation, and then hexadecimal converted to images for orientation. I've made about 10 total tries, and got 2/2 3 times, 3/3 once, 4/4 once, and 5/5 once. So my accuracy so far is pretty good.

Now it really seems painful to think about doing 6 cubes next week. Big cubes BLD seems so much less painful for some reason. I don't know why, but it does.


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## Karthik (Feb 10, 2008)

I definitely don't think MultiBLD is painful.I enjoy doing it a lot.
I use PAO and place these images in my journey.
Total # of locations=Total # of cubes.
I also like "burning" technique which Tim mentioned somewhere.
BTW Mike,I have 7 cubes now, but 3 are very bad.So I won't be trying >5 until I get my DIYs.Though I will get more cubes at Indian Open.


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## tim (Feb 10, 2008)

karthikputhraya said:


> BTW Mike,I have 7 cubes now, but 3 are very bad.So I won't be trying >5 until I get my DIYs.Though I will get more cubes at Indian Open.



Hehe, i had to use one keychain cube + 2 4x4 + 2 crappy store bought cubes for my 16 cubes attempt .


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## alexc (Feb 10, 2008)

DennisStrehlau said:


> Well, i do corners at last and when the next image is an image for an edge, i know, that i have to go on with the next cube and that it is solved now



Yes, but do you have different images for the corners and edges or something? How can you tell the difference between a corner and edge image?


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## Karthik (Feb 10, 2008)

tim said:


> karthikputhraya said:
> 
> 
> > BTW Mike,I have 7 cubes now, but 3 are very bad.So I won't be trying >5 until I get my DIYs.Though I will get more cubes at Indian Open.
> ...


But Tim, you still have 12 good cubes.I was thinking of using my 4x4 but even that is equally bad.



alexc said:


> DennisStrehlau said:
> 
> 
> > Well, i do corners at last and when the next image is an image for an edge, i know, that i have to go on with the next cube and that it is solved now
> ...



Depending on the order of the appearance of the images.I memo corners first then edges.


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## alexc (Feb 10, 2008)

@karthikputhraya
Yes, but how do you know you are done the corners or edges or a cube while solving? Dennis, how do you tell the difference between corner and edge images?


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## Karthik (Feb 10, 2008)

alexc said:


> Yes, but how do you know you are done the corners or edges or a cube while solving? Dennis, how do you tell the difference between corner and edge images?


You can use some kind of "flags" to mark the end of edges/corners.
I generally memo all corners in 1 image.So it is very easy for me to tell when my corners are done.
Moreover you can make letter pairs separately for corners and edges.Corner A-H, Edges I-T


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## tim (Feb 10, 2008)

alexc said:


> @karthikputhraya
> Yes, but how do you know you are done the corners or edges or a cube while solving? Dennis, how do you tell the difference between corner and edge images?



Uhm, do you want to know, how to tell the difference between an apple and a tree for example? I don't get it.


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 10, 2008)

@alexc: well i have always different images for edges and coners, so i know when there is an image for a corner, and then an image for an edge, that i have to go on to the next cube

Greetings...Dennis


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## alexc (Feb 10, 2008)

Ok, now I understand. Sorry if I was a bit unclear expressing my question. I think I might try to have different images for edges and corners. The only problem is I use M2 for edges, and I'm switching to Y perm with no orientation for corners. There aren't enough letters in the alphabet to have different images for them. 
So, I think I have to come up with some symbol that tells me to start the corners or start edges. Like I could have something dying for the first image for the corners and I could have some other specific verb that signals me to start the edges. This way whenever I run into something dying in my story, I know that that image is the start of the corners. Does anybody do something similar to this? (I know Tim imagines the image on fire to signal a misoriented piece.)


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## joey (Feb 10, 2008)

You have two images for letters A-X, one image for corners and one for edges.

I have Apple - edges, and Aardvark - corners.


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## alexc (Feb 10, 2008)

@Joey
Yes, but I might want to do a more freestyle variation. For multi, I think I will get confused if I use the same image over and over again, especially for 5+ cubes, I think it would be difficult. So, I think I'll still use what I described in my earlier post. I think your method will work well for regular bld, though. Thanks!


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## joey (Feb 10, 2008)

Tim uses fixed images. He is one of the fastest multi-blders.


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## tim (Feb 10, 2008)

joey said:


> Tim uses fixed images. He is one of the fastest multi-blders.



But still damn slow. The level of all multi bld cubers is ridiculously low.


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## joey (Feb 10, 2008)

Yeah tim, I never said you were fast. I just said one of the fastest


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 10, 2008)

yeah, that's true, he really is one of the fastest...
i never care about the time, i just want to do many cubes and as long as i am not over the time limit, everything is okay...
so i do not PRACTISE speed in multi-bld, but it practises itself when you do often multi-bld...so you get faster automatically...

Greetings...Dennis


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## Jacco (Feb 10, 2008)

So what are exactly "fixed images", images that are not attached to a letter?


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## joey (Feb 10, 2008)

Fixed images is where each piece has a dedicated image.


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## AvGalen (Feb 10, 2008)

DennisStrehlau said:


> that's very good...try try try...never give up...
> @ArnaudvG: i think i will try 10 cubes tomorrow for the weekly comp.
> i never knew, what this weekly comp. is but now i know it, cause i was looking around on the page a bit is it okay, if i try another one with 10 tomorrow, after having done 5 today for the comp.?
> 
> Greetings...Dennis


Sorry Dennis, but you are only allowed one try every week. You can try to do 10 (use scramble 6 to 15) and post it as an unofficial result. Next competition starts tuesday/wednesday night change so you don't have to wait long for your next official attempt


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## Derrick Eide17 (Feb 10, 2008)

tim said:


> alexc said:
> 
> 
> > @karthikputhraya
> ...



HAHA! lmao Tim you just made my day with that comment! lol


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## Dene (Feb 10, 2008)

Ok, so here's an interesting idea, does anybody do multi-BLD relays, like, 2x2x2, 3x3x3, 4x4x4, 5x5x5 BLD? I wonder how fast Mr. Kuti could do that!

EDIT: I mean at the same time of course, in case that wasn't clear, (memo all, solve all, to be quite explicit).


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## joey (Feb 10, 2008)

Yup. http://www.speedcubing.com/records/recs_bf_relays.html

#1 on there is amazing, blows my mind everytime I read it.


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## Dene (Feb 10, 2008)

WOW!! He did four 4x4x4's? There has to be something funny going on inside his head, that is inhuman!! He never fails to amaze me! And he just throws in a square-1 for fun? Crazy! He must have memoed those 4x4x4's in about 3 minutes each, and the 5x5x5's about the same!! Oh I can't get over this, it is just crazy. Interesting also that he did it one day after my birthday last year   . That's a better present that what I got from my parents ^^ .


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 10, 2008)

YES!
the most funny thing is, that he has to memorize the square 1 in 13 minutes, cause he had to thin, wich piece would be where, when it is in cube-sharp
so the other 13 minutes for the rest of the cubes!!!

Greetingd...Dennis


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## RobinBloehm (Feb 10, 2008)

2 5x5x5 Cube
1 Square-1
4 4x4x4 Cube
1 Rubik's Cube
3 2x2x2 Cube


Damn, is he crazy??? I bet he never practiced this, just like:

Boored...what can I do this sunny morning...

Mom: Darling, I prepare the meal, get down in one hour!!

Matyas: kk, mom, I'll be ready!

Okay, so let's grab as many cube-like stuff as I can carry, wanna have some fun, maybe do them blindfolded, what do we have here? 2 5x5, a square-1...no matter what...where's my guy to scramble all that stuff??? 
Damn....have to do it myself...
(Half an hour later, no, he has not scrambled, but already memorized...) "Darling, are you fine?"
"Yes, mum, but tell me the story of uncle Ádam again, otherwise I'm so bored solving all this stuff blindfolded!"

....

He's amazing...


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 11, 2008)

@Robin:
i think that is is absolutely possibe
great strory

Greetings...Dennis


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 11, 2008)

Alex, since I am doing separate memorization for orient and permute, I only need 12 letters for edges and 8 more for corners, so I use different letters for edges and corners - edges are A-L and corners are M-T. So I never get them confused.

For big cubes, I go a different route. I always start my cycle with a person, then use 2-letter images for the rest of the cycle. Then, I have 4 separate categories of person (actors, people I know, cartoon characters, musicians), one for each type of piece (central edges, x centers, wings, + centers, respectively). So I know when I'm done with a type of piece based on switching the category of person that my cycle starts with. I could do that on multi-BLD as well, but I only have 4 categories of person, and I find that they're better used distinguishing between cubes. So my first cube will be actors, the second will be people I know, etc. Now that I'm up to 5 (6 next week), I have to use some categories twice, but at least it helps keep the cubes separated in my mind.


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## alexc (Feb 13, 2008)

@Mike
Hi,
I like your method for big cubes blindfolded. I have started coming up with images for corners and edges. I have almost completed a set of two images from A-V, just need the Q's. (One for edges, the other for corners.) I am going to place these images on a journey. I also hope to have about 5-10 images for corners and edges eventually. (For multi bld)
I was also thinking that for edges, I could have images that have vowels a or e in them. So, for example, an edge image for piece B could be bread, blade, bead, or bed. For corner pieces, I could use vowels i, o, and u. So, an image for corner B could be bowl, bill, or bull. I like this way because it is very easy and intuitive to come up with new images for multi bld, etc.

I am still debating about which one to use. Give me some opinions on both of my ideas.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 13, 2008)

Those certainly sound like workable ideas. The big difference between your approach and mine is that I took to using letter pairs, like Chris Hardwick and Daniel Beyer do. The obvious reason for doing this is that you have less images to memorize, but Tim Habermaas has pointed out that it's really not that different to memorize two images than one, and he's certainly one of the world's best, so if it works for him, I'm not about to knock it. But for me, the other advantage with memorizing pairs is that it leads to a much larger range of possible images, which tends to make each attempt easier to remember and keep straight from other attempts for me. I don't find it that difficult to do quite a few attempts back-to-back, and I think that using letter pairs helps that a lot. Of course, it's a lot more to memorize to get a list for letter pairs; that's why up until recently I just constructed my letter pair images on the fly as I needed them. But memorizing them has greatly improved my speed. There are some other minor advantages with letter pairs as well in the execution - like for instance, pairing them up is particularly helpful for M2 or r2, since you can keep track of the position of the centers easier.

I do have single letter images for the starting and endings of cycles - I just use the letter pairs for the rest of the cycles. I therefore have the distinguishing types based on the person that starts the cycle, and then my letter pairs all use a shared set of images. So if I had + centers that went C G H K M, I'd memorize Cher meeting a GHost wearing a KiMono. But if I had wings that went C G H K M, I'd memorize Casper being a GHost and wearing a KiMono. The person clues me into which type of piece I'm solving. If a cycle spreads to multiple locations, I reuse the person from the start of the cycle at the next location, so it covers everything.

I particularly like your idea of distinguishing the types by which vowels you use - that's nice.


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## alexc (Feb 13, 2008)

@Mike
I have been considering a letter pair system. I actually started making one once, but I only got past the A's and most of the B's. I think that I might try it again. Thanks for your input!


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## Dcuber (Feb 14, 2008)

ughhh trying to do 1!!


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## alexc (Feb 17, 2008)

Hello again everyone,

Updating you on my progress over the last week or so. I tried 2 multi bld attempts. The first took about 20 minutes. The result was 1/2, the second cube was off by 3 edges. The second attempt was 0/2.    Oh well, I will try again as soon as I finish my letter pair system. I am currently finishing the G's and starting the H's. I want to finish my system within the next week or two. I also am planning to switch to either Pochmann or R2 as well.


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## joshuali (Feb 21, 2008)

do you use orientations for ur method? denis


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## alexc (Feb 22, 2008)

Update: Tried another multi for the weekly contest. Result was 1/2  The first cube was off by 4 misoriented edges, so it was close. I used visual for CO and CP. (I am going to start using R2 very soon for multi) I used letter pair images in a story for the edges. I am happy that memo was much faster than my first two attempts. My first two attempts memo took about 15 minutes with single letter images. My third attempt memo was about 7:30, (and I went slow so I wouldn't mess up ) so a big improvement there. I think letter pairs are the reason I have improved. I will try again soon, and I will get it.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 22, 2008)

alexc said:


> Update: Tried another multi for the weekly contest. Result was 1/2  The first cube was off by 4 misoriented edges, so it was close. I used visual for CO and CP. (I am going to start using R2 very soon for multi) I used letter pair images in a story for the edges. I am happy that memo was much faster than my first two attempts. My first two attempts memo took about 15 minutes with single letter images. My third attempt memo was about 7:30, (and I went slow so I wouldn't mess up ) so a big improvement there. I think letter pairs are the reason I have improved. I will try again soon, and I will get it.



It sounds like your memo time is about like mine - I average around 4 minutes per cube on multi (well, a little more as there get to be more cubes, but the first couple run about 4 minutes each). I think R2 would really help - it would be so much easier to memorize without orientations. But unfortunately the fastest I've ever done a single cube R2 is about 7 minutes, and the fastest I've ever done freestyle 3-cycle is about 5:30, so it's still slower for me to go that way than it is for me to do orientation and permutation separate. I'm hoping I'll switch away from separate orientation steps for multi by summer or so - we'll see.


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## alexc (Feb 22, 2008)

@Mike

I am going to use R2 for multi. I will still use 3 cycle for regular blind, but that might change later depending on how fast I can get at R2. To practice my new lettering system for the corners, I tried a solve with M2 and R2. Memo was about 4 minutes, so it wasn't terrible for a first time. (My usual memo with M2 and 3 cycle is 1-1:20) However, I think that once I get better at the lettering system and learn all my letter pair images I think that I can memorize M2/R2 just as fast or faster than just 3 cycle with M2.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 22, 2008)

That sounds great. I was going to go with freestyle/commutators for multiBLD, but I decided I'm just too slow still with it to be willing to take that much of a hit on time. I'm hoping I can work on it on the side, and maybe eventually switch when it's almost as fast as regular 3-cycle is for me now - like I said, maybe by summer. M2 is even worse than freestyle/commutators for me, and I've never bothered to learn the algorithms for R2, so I haven't even tried that. I'm okay with corner commutators, so I doubt I'll ever bother with R2. For multiBLD, the faster memorization with freestyle/commutators comes close to compensating for the slower solving time, but I'm still a couple of minutes faster per cube overall with 3-cycle at the moment.

It sounds like you'll probably get down to sub-2 memorization per cube pretty quickly - I'm going to be much slower than you soon, I can see. Oh well, I'm used to it - everyone else does the same thing to me.


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## alexc (Feb 24, 2008)

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!        I completed my first multi bld!!!!!!!!!! I am so excited!  The total time was probably somewhere between 12 and 14 minutes. Memo was about 7:30. I knew I had gotten it right even before I took off the blindfold.   I didn't use R2 for this because I haven't learned algs for URF and DBR. I will try three for the weekly contest next week, hopefully using R2. Oh, also, I tried a regular blindfolded solve with M2/R2 yesterday. Memo was about 2 minutes. The total time was 4:33.xx and of course I got it right.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 24, 2008)

Awesome, Alex! Congratulations!


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## KConny (Feb 24, 2008)

I've just started using M2 instead of 3cycle so that I can get faster and get easier memo. M2 is really nice. R2 on the other hand, not so nice. TuRBo is too much for me right now and old Pochmann is too many moves, so I think I'll stick with 3 cycle for corners, and orient seperatly.

Anyway, I've also started using a real memo system now. A person action kind of thing. Works great since it's easy to keep track of M slice. There's only one problem: I allways know wich person is doing what but I sometime mess upp the order they are doing things is. I don't know how to link my memo from one person to the second. That's what I do for edges. 

I don't know what to do for corners tough. I'd like to create 56 memo objects so that I can store two corners with just one bit of information. But I don't wanna use the same objects as for edges, that would just confuse me. But the thing is that I used "logic" to create my object for edges, eg. FL=Fly. But how the do you do that with UBL, DFR and so on? I don't wanna have to memorize 56 objects....

Hah, not that many questions, but I got to put my toughts in writing.


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## Erik (Feb 24, 2008)

MULTI-BLD is the new thing to do! Single-BLD is for nooobs xD


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## alexc (Feb 24, 2008)

@KConny

Why do you think R2 is not as good as M2? The R slice corner algs are a bit long and need to be learned well, but it is basically still the same principles as M2. I'm actually thinking about using A perms for the R slice corners, but DFR is a bad buffer to do that. 

As for the memo, I think that letter pair images are the way to go. It is a big system, but it has a whole variety of images that keep your stories/journey/roman rooms very unique and separate from each other. You also don't have to use the same images again and again. Occasionally you might have the same letter pair, but it is a small chance (1/500 or something) and it isn't that big of a deal.


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## tim (Feb 24, 2008)

alexc said:


> You also don't have to use the same images again and again.



That's a drawback. You don't train your images as good as with a one-image-per-piece method.


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## AvGalen (Feb 24, 2008)

I got 2/3 for this weeks weekly competition in 35 minutes (20 memo, 15 execution). A couple of weeks ago it took me 50 minutes, then 45, then 40. Havinag multi-blind in the weekly competition has really helped so far!


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## alexc (Feb 24, 2008)

tim said:


> alexc said:
> 
> 
> > You also don't have to use the same images again and again.
> ...



Perhaps that's true. Do you use the same images again and again? Or do you have 3 or so images per piece, so you only start reusing by the 4th cube?


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## tim (Feb 24, 2008)

alexc said:


> tim said:
> 
> 
> > alexc said:
> ...



Just one image per piece. There's no reason for using more than one image per piece, except you use stories to memorize your images.


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## alexc (Feb 24, 2008)

tim said:


> alexc said:
> 
> 
> > tim said:
> ...



Well, I probably will use stories, so are you saying one image per piece is bad for stories or good for them? You use the journey method, right?


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## tim (Feb 24, 2008)

Bad for stories, because you can easily get similar story parts,
good/doesn't matter for journeys


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## alexc (Feb 24, 2008)

tim said:


> Bad for stories, because you can easily get similar story parts,
> good/doesn't matter for journeys



True, I guess it doesn't matter for journeys. But Dennis uses 1 piece images and he is one of the best. He uses stories, though.


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## tim (Feb 24, 2008)

alexc said:


> tim said:
> 
> 
> > Bad for stories, because you can easily get similar story parts,
> ...



Yeah, but he uses more than one image per piece. I think he said about 3 or 4 images per piece.


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## alexc (Feb 24, 2008)

Ok, maybe I will try that. It is a lot less work than a letter pair system and obviously it can work well, too.


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## joey (Feb 24, 2008)

alexc said:


> tim said:
> 
> 
> > Bad for stories, because you can easily get similar story parts,
> ...



And Tim is also one of the best, don't take his advice light heartedly!


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## DennisStrehlau (Feb 25, 2008)

Yes, thats true!
i have more than 5 pieces for an edge and for a corner.
but i also invent new images while memorizing.

Greetings...Dennis


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Feb 28, 2008)

1/2! my best multi BLD attempt! haha usually it's 0/2 XD.
50% accuracy. 
i didn't even finish the second cube, i forgot. I just stopped the timer. :]


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## alexc (Feb 29, 2008)

I did another attempt for the weekly comp. 1/2 in 13:xx minutes. One cube had two flipped edges. At least I'm not getting 0/2. So far, I've gotten (in chronological order) 1/2, 0/2, 1/2, 2/2 D), and 1/2.

Oh, yeah, I also thought of a new memo method that I think will work well. I will use Roman Rooms. I find Roman Rooms pretty easy to recall, especially if I have the object interacting with the location. Then, I will prepare 2 lists of images. Each list will contain a separate image for each corner and edge. Therefore, I will have 2 images for every piece, so there's a total of 84 images, much easier to master than a letter pair system. I will place 2 images in each location. The first piece in the cycle will be an image from list one, the second piece from list two. This way, I can place 2 images per location and not have to worry about remembering the order. This also decreases the number of locations I'll need. I have prepared and am mastering the first list currently.


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## DennisStrehlau (Mar 1, 2008)

@alexc:
if you have your own memo-method and if you will always improve it, you will be great in multi-bld

Greetings...Dennis


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## Simboubou (Apr 9, 2008)

Yeah ! I achieved a 3/3 in 14'54 today !
It's not that hard, I'm sure I can reach a good number of cubes...National record is only 5/5 

But firsly, I have to found more images, and change my memory method for the corners: I still memorize EO and EP separately, with a visual memory...


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## alexc (Apr 12, 2008)

My first success at 3 cubes in 22:04.99.


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## Simboubou (Apr 12, 2008)

4/4 in 25 minutes yesterday. The more I add cubes, the more I am convinced that it doesn't make it harder, just longer...


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## joey (Apr 12, 2008)

You should have posted that in our BLD accomplishment thread 

http://www.speedsolving.com/showthread.php?t=3582


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## Simboubou (Apr 12, 2008)

Oopps... sorry


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## ROOT (May 25, 2008)

how much do you think rysouke mondo had to memorize when he did 36/51? (on youtube)


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## alexc (May 25, 2008)

ROOT said:


> how much do you think rysouke mondo had to memorize when he did 36/51? (on youtube)



Well you can assume that each cube has about 20 images, give or take a couple, depending on the solve. But let's say 20. So, 20*51= 1020 images. But since he uses letter pair images, divide the number in half. So, he probably memorized around 510 images. Crazy...


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## tim (May 25, 2008)

alexc said:


> ROOT said:
> 
> 
> > how much do you think rysouke mondo had to memorize when he did 36/51? (on youtube)
> ...



I sometimes write down my memo times + images i had to memorize for single bld. The average of all 100 solves was excactly 19 pieces/images. Maybe i got lucky, but i think it's more 19 than 20. (Too lazy to calculate it ).


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## dolphyfan (May 25, 2008)

(19*51)/2= 484.5


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## ROOT (May 25, 2008)

what ive noticed is that when i did 2/4 cubes yesterday is because i forgot to go over them one more time after i memoed the last corners. and i usually do them last to first for some reason to keep the first two cubes which i have gone over many many more times than the other two in my long term memory and the next cube in middle memory (inbetween) and the last cube in short term memory.


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## ROOT (May 28, 2008)

hey when you do multiblind and one cube is one turn off (for me a U') is it a dnf? i just did 3/3 but one cube was a U' off and im not sure or not. is it just +2?


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## Pedro (May 28, 2008)

good question...

I think it's a +2, but I'm not sure


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## Simboubou (May 28, 2008)

I also think it is just a +2 ( which is nothing in multiblind ).


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## Inusagi (Jun 6, 2008)

[email protected] do you have a special system in the words for each piece? Like nouns, verbs, adjectives.....


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## Inusagi (Jun 8, 2008)

Simboubou said:


> I also think it is just a +2 ( which is nothing in multiblind ).



If there is one second left before you jumps over the limit, then it's something...


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## Simboubou (Jun 8, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> Simboubou said:
> 
> 
> > I also think it is just a +2 ( which is nothing in multiblind ).
> ...



Okay, I must admit I would kill myself in this case... 

I just achieved a 6/6, but I forgot to start my webcam, so I can't watch this again... This really destroy me.


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## Inusagi (Jun 8, 2008)

Why do you got to film yourself and the watch it again? :confused:


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## joey (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, others can watch it too!


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## Inusagi (Jun 8, 2008)

He said: "so I can't watch it again" why should HE watch it?:confused:


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## Simboubou (Jun 8, 2008)

I can show the video to others cubers, and I can also watch this again, and relive the exitment. This might look weird, but that is the way a am.
( Dennis, did you ever watched one of or own video just to see your own achievement ? )


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## Johannes91 (Jun 8, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> He said: "so I can't watch it again" why should HE watch it?:confused:


To see where he wastes the most time and what he should practise?

Some good chess players have said that you should spend at least as much time analyzing your games afterwards as you spent playing them.


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## Nghia (Jun 8, 2008)

I honestly do the same things with my videos, I just watch them many times in order to check details while contemplating my success . I think it's perfectly normal.

@Simboudou: C'est Nghia sur Francocube


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## Inusagi (Jun 8, 2008)

But don't he discover it while solving, what he uses long time on?

Anyway, how do you fix misoriented pieces, that are correctly permuted, in 
M2R2? Is it just to put the piece in the buffer and make it correctly after that? Or is it just orienteering it? I don't what's easier to remember.


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## tim (Jun 8, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> But don't he discover it while solving, what he uses long time on?
> 
> Anyway, how do you fix misoriented pieces, that are correctly permuted, in
> M2R2? Is it just to put the piece in the buffer and make it correctly after that? Or is it just orienteering it? I don't what's easier to remember.



You mean "easier to execute" in the last sentence, don't you? Since it doesn't depend on the exectution method how to memorize things.


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## Inusagi (Jun 9, 2008)

tim said:


> Inusagi said:
> 
> 
> > But don't he discover it while solving, what he uses long time on?
> ...



I ment memory. When I think on multi-bld, I am just thinking of memory. How is it easier to remember? Just orienteering it normaly?


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## joey (Jun 9, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> tim said:
> 
> 
> > Inusagi said:
> ...


AND he told you, the memorising is the same either way.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 9, 2008)

So, I haven't yet seen anyone comment on Rowe's latest achievement here:
http://www.speedcubing.com/records/recs_bf_333num.html

27 cubes! Pretty amazing! And pretty scary - he's discovered M2 is a good way to do multiBLD (I think it's particularly good for multi - less thinking is particularly helpful when doing lots of cubes). And he's now talking about learning to memorize with letter pairs.


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## masterofthebass (Jun 9, 2008)

He's also now using Y perm corners for mutli, as the memo is so much simpler. It's not as fast, but in large multi, memo is really all that counts.


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## alexc (Jun 10, 2008)

masterofthebass said:


> He's also now using Y perm corners for mutli, as the memo is so much simpler. It's not as fast, but in large multi, memo is really all that counts.



Yeah, I think methods that solve one piece at a time are the best methods for multi.


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## DennisStrehlau (Jun 11, 2008)

Okay guys...
ont utrn off on a cube or even on all cubes in multi, is just plus 2 seconds...i know that for sure...
and i also learned M2 now...will practise that and then also use it for multi, caus i dont want to have 2 different ways on bld-cubing, since the buffer is different on old pochmann and M2...
and no, i dont have adjectives or anything, only images


Greetings...Dennis


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## Inusagi (Jun 11, 2008)

DennisStrehlau said:


> and no, i dont have adjectives or anything, only images
> 
> 
> Greetings...Dennis



Thank you. I was waiting on this one. Now I can finnaly start.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 11, 2008)

DennisStrehlau said:


> Okay guys...
> ont utrn off on a cube or even on all cubes in multi, is just plus 2 seconds...i know that for sure...
> and i also learned M2 now...will practise that and then also use it for multi, caus i dont want to have 2 different ways on bld-cubing, since the buffer is different on old pochmann and M2...
> and no, i dont have adjectives or anything, only images
> ...



Wow - Dennis has learned M2. Look out - it's gonna get crazy now!


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## DennisStrehlau (Jun 11, 2008)

@Inusagi: i just read it, so i aswerde quickly to your question

@Mike: I hope so...maybe you can also write a comment to the M2/R2 thread on bld-cubing...i asked something there, maybe you could answer...

Greetings...Dennis


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## Rubixcubematt (Sep 23, 2008)

hey guys, im pretty new to multi BLD and i was just wondering how you do roman rooms? i think you have an image for each piece, and put them all around the room, but how does it work? do the images stay the same, you just change your journey, or do you change where everything is? sorry if this is an inconvinience


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