# [Konsta Mod] ShengShou 4x4 solution to internal lock-ups



## Konsta (Apr 3, 2012)

Hey.

Trying to restart my cubing again and got couple new cubes, shengshou 4x4 v3 was one of them 

I made the normal edge and center mods to my cube, but had similar internal lock-up problems as many seem to have. Didn't find any solution for it from this site or youtube, so I decided to figure it out myself.

Modded all internal parts like in the pictures:



Spoiler: images



















Spoiler: more images




















So it's all the "first-contact" parts between bigger and smaller internal parts that I rounded up.
Bigger part has 8 spots modded and smaller one has 4 spots modded.

After that I basically have no lock-ups anymore with this cube.
I hope this helps.


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## MostEd (Apr 3, 2012)

Ok, gotta try this! if it works im telling the russki's about it.!


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## Ickathu (Apr 3, 2012)

When I just finished Florian's mod on my ss4x4 and finished assembling it...
Typical... :fp


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## Konsta (Apr 3, 2012)

MostEd said:


> Ok, gotta try this! if it works im telling the russki's about it.!


 
Cool, Russians are usually very effective in these kinds of things, you people will probably find improvements to this mod I'm sure 



Ickathu said:


> When I just finished Florian's mod on my ss4x4 and finished assembling it...
> Typical... :fp



Haha, don't worry. I've taken this cube apart and assembled it so many times I lost count 
Test out the Florian's mod before trying this to see how much it makes difference.


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## MostEd (Apr 3, 2012)

Konsta said:


> Cool, Russians are usually very effective in these kinds of things, you people will probably find improvements to this mod I'm sure


 
Well a lot use SS, and this can make it better


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## Konsta (Apr 3, 2012)

MostEd said:


> Well a lot use SS, and this can make it better


 
Yep, I have also modded Dayan+MF8 4x4, but it still pops sometimes, therefore I prefer using SS, even tho I like the turning more on Dayan.


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## justkidin123 (Apr 3, 2012)

While we're on the topic of the SS 4x4 tell me. does anyone think it would pop more if you sanded down the flares on the bottom of the center piece? oh. and i also did florians mod on my SS 4x4 and at first it popped a lot. but it sort of broke itself in afterwards. i had to tighten it, but it was definitely worth it in the end.


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## izovire (Apr 3, 2012)

heh... I didn't now this cube locked up internally... It just needs to eat more fibrous foods. 

Thanks for sharing this mod.


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## Alex97 (Apr 3, 2012)

I did this mod already. It suck!!!


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## Konsta (Apr 3, 2012)

Alex97 said:


> I did this mod already. It suck!!!


 
I'm sorry to hear that. Did you do exactly the same as I did? Because my cube really doesn't lock anymore after I did this..
I first did only the first picture, but only after doing the second part of the mod I really got rid of all the internal lock ups.


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## masterofthebass (Apr 3, 2012)

Just did this and lockups are gone. Now I can actually stand to use this cube.


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## Konsta (Apr 3, 2012)

masterofthebass said:


> Just did this and lockups are gone. Now I can actually stand to use this cube.



Really glad to hear this!
I actually hesitated to make a thread about this at first, thinking that maybe it's not that good mod or at least most good cubers already know this.


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## MostEd (Apr 3, 2012)

Konsta said:


> Really glad to hear this!
> I actually hesitated to make a thread about this at first, thinking that maybe it's not that good mod or at least most good cubers already know this.


 
I'm working on this mod, did about 1 half of the pieces, hope to finish tomorow


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## Alex97 (Apr 3, 2012)

Don't exist mod to do SS 4x4 to not lock up. I recommend mini/dayan mf8 for speedcubing


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## Konsta (Apr 3, 2012)

Alex97 said:


> Don't exist mod to do SS 4x4 to not lock up. I recommend mini/dayan mf8 for speedcubing


 
Yes, I have that one too, unfortunately the cube I got has very stiff outer layers, so it makes it almost impossible to cube with.
I've tried to mod it as much as possible, but it seems that it's not possible to sand it down enough without destroying the cube.
Too bad, I really like the size and the feel of that cube other than outer layers.
Of course I could buy another one and hope to get better one, but it's pretty expensive cube to play lottery 

I would really like to see some pictures of your SS internal part mods to see if it differs from what I did.
Because I modded my cube in several phases (3 or 4 days and testing between modding), only doing all the spots you can see in my pictures it stopped locking up internally.


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## Cheese11 (Apr 3, 2012)

Alex97 said:


> Don't exist mod to do SS 4x4 to not lock up. I recommend mini/dayan mf8 for speedcubing


 
GTFO. RIGHT NOW. But really, the Mini Dayan+MF8 4x4 is just too stiff. There is no mod that can make it better. Plus the plastic is really soft, and the pieces are to big for the cube. Mine broke from turning it.... It sucks.


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## 5BLD (Apr 3, 2012)

Awesome mod! I was thinking of doing it before but i was worried I'd stuff it up, but when I saw your thread I decided to give it a go.


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## Alex97 (Apr 3, 2012)

Cheese11 said:


> GTFO. RIGHT NOW. But really, the Mini Dayan+MF8 4x4 is just too stiff. There is no mod that can make it better. Plus the plastic is really soft, and the pieces are to big for the cube. Mine broke from turning it.... It sucks.


I like stiff cube!!! Isn't cubes who I can modified to be better!!


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## Konsta (Apr 3, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Awesome mod! I was thinking of doing it before but i was worried I'd stuff it up, but when I saw your thread I decided to give it a go.


 
Thanks! I made the modding decision pretty soon after I got this cube and did known mods to it, because I really couldn't stand the internal lock ups.
Also the low price encouraged me to try this out. And I wouldn't be using locking cube anyway.

At the same time I actually destroyed my MF8 megaminx by modding it too much, and the worst part is that there were actual tutorials how to mod it properly and I was just lazy to check them out 
Good thing is that I finally modded my mefferts minx and tiled it with MF8 tiles, so I have pretty nice megaminx now. (it was mefferts mod to mf8 what I did to destroy it, don't try that at home)


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## izovire (Apr 3, 2012)

masterofthebass said:


> Just did this and lockups are gone. Now I can actually stand to use this cube.


 
Aha! If Dan likes it then I'm pretty sure it's a good mod... but then again everyone has their preferences in how they like their cubes to feel.


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## cubelover111 (Apr 3, 2012)

Can you please make a video as I cannot really understand it through pictures. Thanks


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## Cheese11 (Apr 3, 2012)

I think I'll have to try it due to the amount of positive feedback.

Thanks in advance.


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## Konsta (Apr 3, 2012)

cubelover111 said:


> Can you please make a video as I cannot really understand it through pictures. Thanks


 
Unfortunately I don't have videocamera that supports such a close-up shooting.
If some friendly person can make such video based on pictures I showed it would be nice to those who prefer videos.


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## ottozing (Apr 3, 2012)

thanks for sharing. seeing as dan cohen likes the mod i guess ill have to give it a go


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## masterofthebass (Apr 4, 2012)

Just to make it clear, I didn't even take my time doing it. I just shoved the pieces against a dremel to round them out and it has completely gotten rid of the lockups. I even was able to get a 27 today after doing the mod.


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## wytefury (Apr 4, 2012)

WOW...that was ridiculously easy/fast and extremely effective. This definitely is the solution to the SS 4x4 lock-up problem. Thanks for posting up your pictures and idea!


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## drewsopchak (Apr 4, 2012)

Why can't cube makers do these simple things.....


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## Konsta (Apr 4, 2012)

masterofthebass said:


> Just to make it clear, I didn't even take my time doing it. I just shoved the pieces against a dremel to round them out and it has completely gotten rid of the lockups. I even was able to get a 27 today after doing the mod.


Out of curiousity, did you round up all the spots or just like in that first picture?
I was kinda surprised how fast you modded it.



wytefury said:


> WOW...that was ridiculously easy/fast and extremely effective. This definitely is the solution to the SS 4x4 lock-up problem. Thanks for posting up your pictures and idea!


Yes, I might have given wrong impression how long it takes to do this mod. I modded it very carefully as I didn't want to overmod anything after wrecking my megaminx, but the actual sanding/dremeling the parts shouldn't take that long if you have good tools and you know beforehand what to do. Altho I doubt I could do it as fast as Dan did, if he did all the spots I showed..
Especially the last pictures spot was hard for me to do, I found it to be pretty tricky spot to sand down without sanding something extra.


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## masterofthebass (Apr 4, 2012)

Konsta said:


> Out of curiousity, did you round up all the spots or just like in that first picture?
> I was kinda surprised how fast you modded it.



I only didnt mod the smaller section of the +centers. I rounded the outer contact point of both pieces as well as the inner point of the edges. I spent no time making sure it was accurate or pretty, so thats why it took me so little time. It seems that just rounding those corners does wonders for lockups, regardless of how much you actually round them off.


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## LarryLunchmeat (Apr 4, 2012)

I sanded the hell out of all my SS4 V3 cubies and although it was a lot better, it still had the occasional outer layer lockup. I assumed that it was the small and big inner pieces that you have shown here, so I will try this mod and see how it turns out. Thanks


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## Konsta (Apr 4, 2012)

masterofthebass said:


> I only didnt mod the smaller section of the +centers. I rounded the outer contact point of both pieces as well as the inner point of the edges. I spent no time making sure it was accurate or pretty, so thats why it took me so little time. It seems that just rounding those corners does wonders for lockups, regardless of how much you actually round them off.



Those smaller sections of the +centers were the last thing I did to finish up this mod. But it might be just that I rounded less the inner point of the edges than you did.
But only after doing the last part I felt like the last tiny occasional internal lock-ups were truly gone.
It's good that people try to do mods a bit different ways so we get rid of unnecessary moddings


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## masterofthebass (Apr 4, 2012)

Its probably best to do both points of the contact, but I just was like... I'm not messing with these tiny pieces again  I think though, if you round one of the pieces enough, that the other shouldn't ever catch on it because it is so rounded, which may be why I don't feel any lockups.


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## Konsta (Apr 4, 2012)

masterofthebass said:


> Its probably best to do both points of the contact, but I just was like... I'm not messing with these tiny pieces again  I think though, if you round one of the pieces enough, that the other shouldn't ever catch on it because it is so rounded, which may be why I don't feel any lockups.


 
Hehe, I know how you feel. I was thinking of doing the smaller parts if the inner edge mod is not enough, but in the end just didn't want to take it apart again even tho I felt small occasional lock-ups.
Next day I had more energy to start modding again and did those annoying small parts on that last picture.
And yes, you're probably right about that rounding thing, I was just over-careful after destroying my favorite megaminx, so I rounded a bit on both parts instead of just rounding more on that edge part. Both ways might work equally well.


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## gokkar (Apr 4, 2012)

I took WAY too much plastic off of mine, now its all rough and bumpy, barely turns. Hopefully a bit of smoothing, breaking in, and Lubix will do the trick, but be careful, everyone.


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## masterofthebass (Apr 4, 2012)

So I decided to do some 4x4 today after this mod:

35.75 avg12 and 38.93 mo100

Good cube :3


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## Konsta (Apr 4, 2012)

masterofthebass said:


> So I decided to do some 4x4 today after this mod:
> 
> 35.75 avg12 and 38.93 mo100
> 
> Good cube :3


 
Ooh, so maybe we can expect some average on youtube soon?


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## BlueDevil (Apr 4, 2012)

Trying this tonight. With Harvard Spring coming up on Saturday, I really hope it works. I'd really like to cut a few seconds off my time by having very few lock ups


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## Konsta (Apr 4, 2012)

BlueDevil said:


> Trying this tonight. With Harvard Spring coming up on Saturday, I really hope it works. I'd really like to cut a few seconds off my time by having very few lock ups


 
I'm sure you will like it. But be careful not to take too much like gokkar said, especially so close to competition where getting a new cube might be a problem 

It seems I'm getting my SS 5x5 and 6x6 tomorrow, so a long modding day or few ahead of me 8)


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## LouisCormier (Apr 5, 2012)

Wow, did this on my 4x4 and it helped a lot! 39.42 single on my third solve on it :O (5th sub-40)


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## Akash Rupela (Apr 5, 2012)

Well how do u recommend doing this. Just did the first picture as of now, and it hurts . I dont have dremel. Sandpaper or blade or scissors or wat?


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## Konsta (Apr 5, 2012)

Akash Rupela said:


> Well how do u recommend doing this. Just did the first picture as of now, and it hurts . I dont have dremel. Sandpaper or blade or scissors or wat?


 
Dremel(you can buy one surprisingly cheap if you don't go for the best on the market) would be fastest/easiest way of course, but sandpaper type nail file is very good and cheap option too.
That last pictures mod will be very hard to do without a dremel, you could use some type of blade but yeah, it will be slow and painful.
Just doing the first pictures mod makes it better, but you will still have lock ups.
If you aren't ready to buy new tools I would use sandpaper on all spots that are easy to do, like the first pictures mods. Blade on harder spots.


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## Akash Rupela (Apr 5, 2012)

It would be nice if you could give a link from where should i buy it?
I m not that serious 4x4 cuber, but i believe a 5-10 second modding difference can turn me into one


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## Ickenicke (Apr 5, 2012)

Is this anything you can apply to the 5x5? 
To the center pieces or something?


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## Konsta (Apr 5, 2012)

Akash Rupela said:


> It would be nice if you could give a link from where should i buy it?
> I m not that serious 4x4 cuber, but i believe a 5-10 second modding difference can turn me into one


I bought my dremel from a local shop/cheap hall called Clas Ohlson. Not sure if there are any in India. But my dremel was like a bit over 10€ if I remember correctly.
You should be able to find those in shops that sell some basic electronic tools.



Ickenicke said:


> Is this anything you can apply to the 5x5?
> To the center pieces or something?


I will get my 5x5 (and 6x6) today so I'll be able to tell you more after doing the basic mods to them. What I've seen from videos they don't seem to lock up that much after modding(?).
I could guess that middle edges might be somewhat moddable, but I won't start doing any mods to them if the cube feels just fine after Florian's mod


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## MostEd (Apr 5, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> Is this anything you can apply to the 5x5?
> To the center pieces or something?


 Yes, my russian friend did this thing to his 5x5 before this 4x4 mod was published... he likes it(sub russian NR)



BlueDevil said:


> Trying this tonight. With Harvard Spring coming up on Saturday, I really hope it works. I'd really like to cut a few seconds off my time by having very few lock ups


 It worked great for me/


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## Florian (Apr 6, 2012)

This mod is awesome, even though my cube was already really good, this is improving the cube by a lot.

When I ever meet you at a comp I shout you a beer.


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## radmin (Apr 6, 2012)

What is the best Dremel bit to use for modding? Can someone post a link to a pic? 
I have an old Craftsman knock off but no bits.


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## Konsta (Apr 6, 2012)

Florian said:


> This mod is awesome, even though my cube was already really good, this is improving the cube by a lot.
> 
> When I ever meet you at a comp I shout you a beer.


Heh, thanks but I don't drink beer  I get my reward from people being happy about the mod. I'm sure you feel the same way 
I just yesterday modded my ss 5x5 based on your video, still gotta work on tensions and such, but I think my main problem is that my turning style is really bad.



radmin said:


> What is the best Dremel bit to use for modding? Can someone post a link to a pic?
> I have an old Craftsman knock off but no bits.


I used quite rough sandpaper head on my dremel to get the work done faster, except that last picture I had to use smaller metallic head to be able to round that tricky spot.
If you use something very rough, you better be careful not to take too much plastic off.
I never even polished the pieces, but they seem to polish themselfs pretty nicely after some silicone and maru lubing + using the cube.


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## Alex97 (Apr 6, 2012)

Can somebody to make a video with this cube and a solve?


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## Ickenicke (Apr 6, 2012)

Florian said:


> This mod is awesome, even though my cube was already really good, this is improving the cube by a lot.



The same for me!

SS 4x4 is awesome


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## Speedmaster (Apr 6, 2012)

could you make some more pictures from the pieces? from back and side please


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## HelpCube (Apr 6, 2012)

Alex97 said:


> I like stiff cube!!! Isn't cubes who I can modified to be better!!


 
I think you are the only person in the world who likes stiff cubes better than cubes which can turn. Congratulations.


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## Konsta (Apr 6, 2012)

Speedmaster said:


> could you make some more pictures from the pieces? from back and side please


I added few pictures of the inner points, hope you get a better view on them now. I don't quite understand what you mean pictures from back?


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## mati1242 (Apr 7, 2012)

Does your cubes also get more clicky after mod ?
Because I think I do something wrong and my cube is even worse after mod...


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## ottozing (Apr 7, 2012)

mati1242 said:


> Does your cubes also get more clicky after mod ?
> Because I think I do something wrong and my cube is even worse after mod...


 
you might have sanded down too much :/, when i did the mod i didnt notice any difference tbh so im gonna try and fix it on monday.


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## Alex97 (Apr 7, 2012)

HelpCube said:


> I think you are the only person in the world who likes stiff cubes better than cubes which can turn. Congratulations.


 I like to feel a 4x4 like a 3x3


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## Ralinda4 (Apr 11, 2012)

I did it in about 4 hours using sandpaper, and I have to admit it didn't do much although it does feel different now (and not worse!). It's possible that I sanded the pieces too little, and sandpaper definitely wasn't the best tool to use for it. It may also need breaking in more and I need to lube it with lubix at some time in the future, plus it's worth noting that I haven't done the other edge/centre mods that you mentioned so that may affect it.

Despite that, I really enjoyed actually modding it, so it wasn't at all a waste of time. Hopefully it'll get better with time.


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## Konsta (Apr 11, 2012)

Ralinda4 said:


> I did it in about 4 hours using sandpaper, and I have to admit it didn't do much although it does feel different now (and not worse!). It's possible that I sanded the pieces too little, and sandpaper definitely wasn't the best tool to use for it. It may also need breaking in more and I need to lube it with lubix at some time in the future, plus it's worth noting that I haven't done the other edge/centre mods that you mentioned so that may affect it.
> 
> Despite that, I really enjoyed actually modding it, so it wasn't at all a waste of time. Hopefully it'll get better with time.


Yes, you should do the Florian's mod too, altho I'd like to try a cube with only internal mod done, but of course I would want a full modded cube if I'm going to cube with it.
I might do the first picture with sandpaper, but wouldn't even dream about trying other spots with it  If you have nail file or any kind of smooth file, that would be much better option, but dremel of course is the best one I can think of.
And lubing is always important if you want a cube that moves nicely.


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## toruu (Apr 11, 2012)

Somebody please make a video


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## sa11297 (Apr 11, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY9XfIIaI5k&feature=g-u-u&context=G2f7643fFUAAAAAAALAA
not my video, but there you go toruu

I am getting a new SS 4x4 v3 soon, and there are quite a few mods. I do not want to regret doing any, and I want to do them all at one time. Can someone tell me which mods I should do with these. Also, If I do many mods, will the cube begin to pop?


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## Konsta (Apr 11, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY9XfIIaI5k&feature=g-u-u&context=G2f7643fFUAAAAAAALAA
> not my video, but there you go toruu
> 
> I am getting a new SS 4x4 v3 soon, and there are quite a few mods. I do not want to regret doing any, and I want to do them all at one time. Can someone tell me which mods I should do with these. Also, If I do many mods, will the cube begin to pop?


I don't think there are mods that take away anti-popping mechanisms or anything useful (without replacing it with similar mechanism). If the cube pops, it pops because it is loose and you force corner cut or something similar.
Mods are made to reduce or even remove lockups that might also cause pops. So doing a mod properly should never cause cube to pop more than it pops already, if at all.
Also finding the right tension and lubing the cube is as important after the mod as it was before any mods, these things never change.
If you like to keep very loose tension, you probably experience more popping and even lock-ups with bigger cubes if you don't have very good/smooth handling over your cube.
With bigger cubes I personally need to set the tension so that it basically never pops as my cubing style is awful especially with bigger cubes atm.
No mod will make one a better cuber, but it can and will make the cube better if it's done correctly.
So make a mod if you trust your modding skills enough


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## RTh (Apr 11, 2012)

I modded my SS today and I have to say you do notice an improvement, however it doesn't completely solve lock-ups. The outer layers still lock up a bit, and sometimes it is enough to screw up the solve. Should I do the mod Florian proposes? I finished doing it to my SS 5 a few days ago and it improved very much (still, it isn't perfect).
I used a Dremell to round up the pieces, took about an hour.


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## Konsta (Apr 11, 2012)

RTh said:


> I modded my SS today and I have to say you do notice an improvement, however it doesn't completely solve lock-ups. The outer layers still lock up a bit, and sometimes it is enough to screw up the solve. Should I do the mod Florian proposes? I finished doing it to my SS 5 a few days ago and it improved very much (still, it isn't perfect).
> I used a Dremell to round up the pieces, took about an hour.


 
Yes, absolutely. I kinda assumed that people had modded with Florian's mod already. Internal mod is for internal parts only.
I also modded my new SS 5x5 and 6x6. With 5x5 I modded also 1 center piece more that wasn't in that mod, I'm kinda studying both of them atm.


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## Noahaha (Apr 12, 2012)

How necessary is a dremel? Would I be able to do it with a knife and sand paper?


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## Konsta (Apr 12, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> How necessary is a dremel? Would I be able to do it with a knife and sand paper?


Yes, it just takes more time. I wouldn't bother doing it with those, but then again.. I have a dremel 
When I tested some spots in this mod I always started with a knife, I used dremel only after I knew how much plastic I should take off.


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## wytefury (Apr 12, 2012)

Konsta said:


> I also modded my new SS 5x5 and 6x6. With 5x5 I modded also 1 center piece more that wasn't in that mod, I'm kinda studying both of them atm.


 
How are the results? Any big differences?


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## Konsta (Apr 12, 2012)

wytefury said:


> How are the results? Any big differences?


I assume you're talking about the 5x5?
Well it helped for the particular lockup I experienced a lot. I rounded the edge-centers outer edges (all the way internally), because the wing edge piece took too much contact to it while turning when it was just a tiny bit misaligned. I might mod some other spots later on if I feel like it. Still need to do more solves to get more info out of this cube


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## Noahaha (Apr 16, 2012)

Took me about an hour with a metal file. I still catch a little bit on M-slices occasionally, so I may not have gotten each piece perfect, but other than that it's spectacular. Thanks Konsta!

EDIT: First solve was a PB by 1 second despite OLL and PLL parity.


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## Cheese11 (Apr 16, 2012)

Did you guys fully assemble when you did this? I always have trouble putting it back together XD


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## ottozing (Apr 16, 2012)

Cheese11 said:


> Did you guys fully assemble when you did this? I always have trouble putting it back together XD


 
its not that hard to assemble.


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## Cheese11 (Apr 17, 2012)

ottozing said:


> its not that hard to assemble.


 
It's fricken crazy hard. Took me 3 hours last time!


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## Ralinda4 (Apr 17, 2012)

Hopefully you should be able to assemble the 1st 3 layers with only a little bit of difficulty. After that, I loosen the top side and just do it piece by piece; I slide in the inner edge then slowly insert the smaller part from an angle. This video may help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYydMmZywas&feature=related

In general it's best to take it slow, and it does get easier the more you do it.


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## scrubofcubes (Apr 21, 2012)

Does this solve the outer layers locking up as well? I just received the ss 4x4 v3 and the inner layers are great but the outer layers lock up a bunch


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## Konsta (Apr 21, 2012)

scrubofcubes said:


> Does this solve the outer layers locking up as well? I just received the ss 4x4 v3 and the inner layers are great but the outer layers lock up a bunch



This is not for inner or outer layers, but for internal parts that cause both inner and outer layer locking. Doing this and Florian's mod you should get a pretty nice 4x4.


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## Hermanio (Apr 21, 2012)

Does this mod fix the corners catching onto some parts?


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## Cuberfreak (Apr 22, 2012)

the reviews are great for this mod so i really want to use this on my SS.
the problem is, i have difficulty understanding what i should do to modify my cube based on some pictures. what i really need is a video of someone actually showing the process of modifying their cube, not what the end result looks like. someone please post a video of you in the process of performing (and explaining) this modification.


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## Noahaha (Apr 22, 2012)

Cuberfreak said:


> the reviews are great for this mod so i really want to use this on my SS.
> the problem is, i have difficulty understanding what i should do to modify my cube based on some pictures. what i really need is a video of someone actually showing the process of modifying their cube, not what the end result looks like. someone please post a video of you in the process of performing (and explaining) this modification.


 
I made a little tutorial. It's not a video, but...

Red is where you sand/file/shave/dremel.

Big pieces:

 (disregard the bottom left patch of red in this picture)

Small pieces:


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## Konsta (Apr 22, 2012)

Hermanio said:


> Does this mod fix the corners catching onto some parts?



No, that's why Florian's mod is for.



Noahaha said:


> View attachment 2082View attachment 2083
> 
> I made a little tutorial. It's not a video, but...
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for trying to help, but your colorings are a bit misguiding.
You could've added red to the first pictures smaller counter-part, as it shows the side picture of how to mod those outer spots.
Then your second picture shows left down corner a wrong spot.

I added 2 weeks ago 4 new pictures of inner spots, there's a knife pointing where to sand and side picture of the sanding angle and how much I took plastic off.
The very first picture is pretty much self-explanatory. You can just compare your non-modded pieces to the picture if you don't see right away what parts are modded.


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## Noahaha (Apr 22, 2012)

Konsta said:


> Then your second picture shows left down corner a wrong spot.



You're right. The spot is actually on the other side of the piece. Hope that doesn't misguide anyone.


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## ThomasJE (Apr 30, 2012)

I may try this with some P240 sandpaper. I don't want to take too much off, but the lock-ups are quite annoying when they happen. In my first solve today, I did a 1:15 reduction (quite fast for me), but ended up with a 2:03.50 due to lock-ups and DP


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## radmin (Apr 30, 2012)

I did this mod along with some corner modifications. The cube feels creamier now. Once you get the exact right tension it's nice. I was able to get a sub 2 min ave of 5 with it. I'm usually 2.05-2.15 pb in the 1:4x range.

I'm going to put some un-modded corners on it and see if that changes it.


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## Zyrb (Apr 30, 2012)

I did this mod on Saturday along with Florian's mod. It has improved the cube a lot, I'd recommend everyone do it and make sure they take their time so it turns out good.


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## Thunderbolt (May 4, 2012)

do you guys know what's wrong with my ss 4x4. 
i have tensions which the cube came and during last 3 weeks it has lock ups but never pops. few moments ago it didnt pop it exploded. 1\4 of cube just dissapeared. i had to bring it back together. why it popped so hard.it never has something like that


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## JianhanC (May 4, 2012)

Thunderbolt said:


> do you guys know what's wrong with my ss 4x4.
> i have tensions which the cube came and during last 3 weeks it has lock ups but never pops. few moments ago it didnt pop it exploded. 1\4 of cube just dissapeared. i had to bring it back together. why it popped so hard.it never has something like that


 
Have you ever disassemble it? I can't think of any reason. Maybe you can show us pictures of your cube? Btw, I'm quite sure that people who thinks SS 4x4s are hard to assemble have never assembled a V Cube 6 before. Really, Maru 4x4s are way harder.


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## yoshinator (May 4, 2012)

Thunderbolt said:


> do you guys know what's wrong with my ss 4x4.
> i have tensions which the cube came and during last 3 weeks it has lock ups but never pops. few moments ago it didnt pop it exploded. 1\4 of cube just dissapeared. i had to bring it back together. why it popped so hard.it never has something like that



I have had similar problems, but don't worry, it happens extremely rarely. 

What I have found is that when one is doing inner-outer turns (such as during OLL parity) this will (extremely rarely) happen. It will also happen if your cube is extremely loose. 

Thus, if it is happening a lot, tighten your cube, if it happens next-to never, just try to figure out when it happens, and turn more accurately during that time.

(By the way, this all comes from pure experience with my SSV3, not from speculation or anything)


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## Thunderbolt (May 4, 2012)

thanks for the advice. It happens very rarely for me and happend during E-slice edge pairing. I wanted to solve last 2 edges, when I performed second move after D it exploded


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## yoshinator (May 4, 2012)

Thunderbolt said:


> thanks for the advice. It happens very rarely for me and happend during E-slice edge pairing. I wanted to solve last 2 edges, when I performed second move after D it exploded


 
Yeah, your D move (I assume you mean Dw) was probably inaccurate, and so when you started to do outer layer turns, the core pieces that hold the cube together (tw ones to mod in the Konsta mod) were not in line, and so it exploded. Try to improve your turning accuracy and everything will be fine.


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## RTh (May 13, 2012)

So I did this mod along with Florian's mod about a month ago and even though I did notice a big improvement with the internal mod regarding internal lock-ups, with the external pieces' mod it started to lock-up again.
Outer layers move perfectly, very fast and nearly lock free, but the internals tend to catch up with a ''creamy'' feeling to it.
I'm afraid I may have modded it too much, taking extra plastic in some pieces and thus making it unstable, or maybe I just have really bad tensions right now. Who knows.
My question being, has anyone had a similar problem, and if so how did you do?
It feels as if the internal pieces were catching on to each other when there's a slight misalignment with the outer faces.


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## yoshinator (May 17, 2012)

RTh said:


> So I did this mod along with Florian's mod about a month ago and even though I did notice a big improvement with the internal mod regarding internal lock-ups, with the external pieces' mod it started to lock-up again.
> Outer layers move perfectly, very fast and nearly lock free, but the internals tend to catch up with a ''creamy'' feeling to it.
> I'm afraid I may have modded it too much, taking extra plastic in some pieces and thus making it unstable, or maybe I just have really bad tensions right now. Who knows.
> My question being, has anyone had a similar problem, and if so how did you do?
> It feels as if the internal pieces were catching on to each other when there's a slight misalignment with the outer faces.


 
Having over modded your pieces certainly wouldn't result in lock-ups, but rather in pops. The problem is more likely that your cube is overly loose, or overly tight, so I would suggest messing around with the tensions until you find a comfortable one. 

And anyway, inner layers only really matter during centers and parity algorithms, which are much easier to get fast than edge-paring and 3x3 stage, which is why the outer layer lock-ups were so obnoxious.

Hope this helps!


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## sa11297 (May 25, 2012)

Can this be applied to the 6x6?


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## Iggy (May 30, 2012)

I did this mod along with Florian's. The outer layers feel nice, but the inner layers are kinda slow and tend to lock up. I probably didn't mod it enough, I'm not sure. Does it always feel like this after you mod it? Does it just need breaking in?


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## rubiksarlen (May 30, 2012)

Iggy said:


> I did this mod along with Florian's. The outer layers feel nice, but the inner layers are kinda slow and tend to lock up. I probably didn't mod it enough, I'm not sure. Does it always feel like this after you mod it? Does it just need breaking in?


 
What did you use? A dremel? Cos its so rare in Malaysia, my parents don't even know what it is


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## Iggy (May 30, 2012)

rubiksarlen said:


> What did you use? A dremel? Cos its so rare in Malaysia, my parents don't even know what it is


 
Nah, I used a nail file. It took about 4 days.


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## Georgeanderre (May 30, 2012)

I did this mod a few weeks back, with a nail file, the outer layers turn almost liek my ZhanChi but the inner layers still lock up very easily and even pop! ~for the record it took me about 2 days to file + a third to Dioshwasher it and re-lube it

All I've had to do is learn to turn slower than I usually would, despite this my times haven't dropped... if I can sort out the locks then I can probably sub 1 on the od ocasion but I can't seem to shake them despite all the modding I've done to it.

All together I've done this mod and Florians mod, but I am very hesitant to do any more for risk of sanding the wrong bit down


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## yoshinator (May 30, 2012)

Georgeanderre said:


> I did this mod a few weeks back, with a nail file, the outer layers turn almost liek my ZhanChi but the inner layers still lock up very easily and even pop! ~for the record it took me about 2 days to file + a third to Dioshwasher it and re-lube it
> 
> All I've had to do is learn to turn slower than I usually would, despite this my times haven't dropped... if I can sort out the locks then I can probably sub 1 on the od ocasion but I can't seem to shake them despite all the modding I've done to it.
> 
> All together I've done this mod and Florians mod, but I am very hesitant to do any more for risk of sanding the wrong bit down


 
Tighten your cube, the SS4 inner layers never lock up if your cube is at a good tension.


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## Georgeanderre (May 30, 2012)

yoshinator said:


> Tighten your cube, the SS4 inner layers never lock up if your cube is at a good tension.


 
I have done, any tighter I risk breaking something or having it so tight that it slows me down during solves.


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## yoshinator (May 30, 2012)

Georgeanderre said:


> I have done, any tighter I risk breaking something or having it so tight that it slows me down during solves.


 
Maybe try loosening it?


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## Georgeanderre (May 30, 2012)

yoshinator said:


> Maybe try loosening it?


 
I'll mess around with the tensions tonight, see if I can minimize the locking.


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## Georgeanderre (May 31, 2012)

Loosened it half a turn or so this morning and had nothing but success since  58.48 an hour or so ago and what should of been sub minute just a second ago.. if I actually noticed the 4 cycle instead of doing double parity -.-

Bit annoyed at the 58 though as it was my first Sub minute and I didn't get it on film... because it looked bad, goes to show bad scrambles can sometimes be good solves, or even a PB :fp


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## linglingli93 (Jun 21, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> Can this be applied to the 6x6?



I was also wondering about this as well.


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## Hunter (Jun 21, 2012)

I finished my mod last night, and I first put it together it was way worse than before I started.

After a little lube, some breaking in and a re-tension it made a huge transformation, and it is now much better than before!


I am thinking now about sanding some open areas on the 4 corners of each face like my ZhanChi to give it a little reverse corner cutting.


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## samchoochiu (Jun 23, 2012)

I did the konsta and florian mod then tighten the cube ALL the way, and I loved it.
I still like it but I noticed that after a week of use (did about 100 solves total) its starting to lock up more.
Anyone else experiencing this?


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## KingTim96 (Jun 23, 2012)

idk about you, but i only did the florian mod and the cube has gne to crap, it locks up, even POPS, and feel all scratchy and like there is something holding it back. i wana tighten it. (and this may sound stupid) but idk how to tighten it because there are no center caps so it just looks weird. any help?


samchoochiu said:


> I did the konsta and florian mod then tighten the cube ALL the way, and I loved it.
> I still like it but I noticed that after a week of use (did about 100 solves total) its starting to lock up more.
> Anyone else experiencing this?


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## yoshinator (Jun 23, 2012)

KingTim96 said:


> idk about you, but i only did the florian mod and the cube has gne to crap, it locks up, even POPS, and feel all scratchy and like there is something holding it back. i wana tighten it. (and this may sound stupid) but idk how to tighten it because there are no center caps so it just looks weird. any help?



Just tighten the screws on the core.


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## mdolszak (Jul 2, 2012)

Here's a video by Cyoubx showing this mod + the Florian mod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5TeqKqU8wk


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## maxyso (Jul 2, 2012)

well sounds like you only did the konsta, no florian? am i right cuz the mod you wanted to do shud be part of florian mod, which should also be done.


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## Cheese11 (Jul 5, 2012)

maxyso said:


> well sounds like you only did the konsta, no florian? am i right cuz the mod you wanted to do shud be part of florian mod, which should also be done.



I did the Konsta mod and did not do the Florian mod, my cube feels just as good as a ShengShou with both mods.


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## maxyso (Jul 5, 2012)

Cheese11 said:


> I did the Konsta mod and did not do the Florian mod, my cube feels just as good as a ShengShou with both mods.



well i did both and it feels good. some people say konsta only makes 3x3 stage horrible and konsta said he assumed florian was already done.


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## NSKuber (Jul 26, 2012)

So, yesterday I spent all day modding my SS 4x4(actual modding time is ~4 hours I think, but there were many breaks). I did Florian's and Konsta's mods. Lubed the core with Lubix and assembled. And was like WTF WHY IS IT SO FAST EVEN IF I TIGHTEN IT SO MUCH THAT IT DOESN'T CUT CORNERS. Really, it's super fast, too fast. After I put Lubix it became bit better, but still I need time to get used to it. Almost no lock-ups. And few attempts of some algs:
PLL parity(l2 U2 l2 Uw2 l2 Uw2) - 0.86
H-Perm - 0.88
T-Perm - 1.03(I think I can do sub-1, just was unlucky yesterday)
6 RURU's - 1.41
OLL Parity 2.33.
In total: AWESOME mods. Do it if you want to have fastest 4x4 in the world.


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## Cheese11 (Jul 26, 2012)

maxyso said:


> well i did both and it feels good. some people say konsta only makes 3x3 stage horrible and konsta said he assumed florian was already done.



Well he shouldn't just assume that everyone did the Florian.


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## Stingray970 (Jul 26, 2012)

Well, if you're doing the Konsta mod, you might as well take the time to do Florian as well as you already have the modding materials.


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## Andri Maulana (Oct 8, 2012)

Finished this mod yesterday, WITHOUT Florian's mod.

First thought, the cube became a bit loose so i need to retension it. The outer layer turn faster, almost no lockup.

I haven't encounter any internal lockup yet, but sometimes got external lockup. Maybe i should try florian mod too

Overall, this mod definitely worth to do. It reduces internal lockup that you got when perform pll parity or h-perm.


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## PeelingStickers (Oct 10, 2012)

I did similiar to the above, I did some of the florian although I didn't have much time to do the edges, cube is very nice, very few lockups and still pretty fast, corner cutting could be better which is why I'm intending to finish the florian sometime.

Any tips for how much I should sand off the edges?


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## googlebleh (Oct 11, 2012)

PeelingStickers said:


> Any tips for how much I should sand off the edges?



About as much as you did the corners. If you watch the cube from the back as you try to reverse-corner-cut (which is what the sanding is supposed to allow), then you'll notice that the cube won't really cut unless _both_ the corners and the edges are rounded.


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## DavidFivexFive (Nov 9, 2012)

*How to stop shengshou V4 inner layer lockups?*

Im not sure how to stop inner layer lock ups, could anyone direct me to a mod or a picture of what to mod?


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## o2gulo (Nov 10, 2012)

I don't own a SS 4x4 and I'm no expert in these things but, I'd say you could do the Konsta mod for your SS, I heard it reduces lockups, There's also a Florian mod out there 

Here, you could use the "search" button y'know.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?36217-SS-4x4-solution-to-internal-lock-ups


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## sneaklyfox (Nov 10, 2012)

From what I have read/heard/watched, you should not do Konsta without doing Florian but what do I know...


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## BigGreen (Nov 10, 2012)

konsta mod is fine on its own.


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## googlebleh (Nov 10, 2012)

Florian said:


> For 4x4:
> My mod<Konsta<both



But keep in mind, Florian said this before the SS4 v4 was made. Both those mods were made for the SS4 v3, so idk how well they work on the v4


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## JAMtron (Nov 10, 2012)

*SS 4x4 solution to internal lock-ups*

I was also wondering how this mod works on the SS V4


waka waka waka


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## Stingray970 (Nov 10, 2012)

Well I know that the Florian mod works wonders for a v4, but the Konsta mod didn't seem to make much of a difference. I might've just executed that mod incorrectly, however.


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## NOLAcuber (Dec 7, 2012)

I have a SS4 v4 and just did both mods and it didn't seem to help. Also there doesn't seem to be much play in the core, or maybe my springs are not long enough? I lubed the core and pieces w 30k diff oil. It doesn't corner cut even a half cubie. Did I not take off enough in the mod? Does it need breaking in, as it was new and only had 6 or so solves before the mod?


Also how do you add pics?


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## Konsta (Dec 7, 2012)

NOLAcuber said:


> or maybe my springs are not long enough?



I've compressed all springs in all my shengshou cubes, feeling that they are always too long.
And when I modded my ss4 it was pretty much unused, as it felt really horrible without mods.
So my opinion is that you don't need to break it in after modding, but someone may think differently.


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## canadiancuber (Dec 18, 2012)

after using the konsta mod my outer layers are really loose. how do i fix.


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## aznanimedude (Dec 18, 2012)

maybe florian then tighten a little bit


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## Ezman1 (Jan 8, 2013)

*Modded shengshou 4x4 keeps coming out of alignment*

i recently modded my shengshou 4x4 v3 (konsta and florian mod, saw it on youtube) and now it keeps coming out of aligment iv noticed its only on the orange layer any ideas on how to fix this?


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## ducttapecuber (Jan 8, 2013)

try tightening it. If it still doesn't work, you over-modded


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## TheHedghogCuber (Jan 11, 2013)

basically, you've over modded the cube.
And there's nothing you can do about it.


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## nuclearbigdaddy (Mar 16, 2013)

*Amazing Shengshou 4x4*

I have recently done the Konsta Florian Mod to my Shengshou 4x4 V4 and it is AMAZING!!! What is different about though is that I have lubed it with a mix of Lubix, 30K Weight Traxxas, and The Cubicle Weight 1. YOU HAVE TO USE WEIGHT ONE...THAT IS WHAT MADE IT THE SMOOTHEST! This made the cube unbelievably smooth. (Use a very small amount of Lubix, use moderate amount of 30K on the pieces and core, and pour quite a bit of weight one into the cube on 2 sides.) ALSO, one of the main reasons it is still smooth is because I DIDN'T over mod it...YOU absolutely can't overmod if you want it to even be near a decent cube! I overmodded my first one and it sucked!

I have made a video showing the turning of the puzzle (It is much more quite in real life, my crappy webcam audio makes it sound loud and clicky.)


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## antoineccantin (Mar 16, 2013)

Doesn't look that awesome...


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## nuclearbigdaddy (Mar 16, 2013)

You have to turn it for yourself...BTW, I love your videos, You are one of my favorite cubers. But I need to break it in a bit. Thanks for the feedback.


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## littlewing1208 (Mar 17, 2013)

After modding my SS 4x4, I've noticed that the screws are completely screwed in such that the friction of the fully compressed springs made it feel like crap so I had to back the screws out just a hair. Is this common?


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## Kattenvriendin (Mar 17, 2013)

After modding a cube you need to retension, so I wager that is normal, yes


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## littlewing1208 (Mar 17, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> After modding a cube you need to retension, so I wager that is normal, yes



Yes I agree that retensioning would be required, but the fact that you run out of spring tension is my concern. I might throw an extra washer in the centers next time I take it apart.


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> If it is twice the price of an SS it would still be considered cheap by lots of people and have a market.



The thing is that the V5 is already pretty awesome with just a konsta mod. If its twice the price and only a little better I dont see it would have a big market. The X-Cube goes around 35 dollars and often other good 4x4s go at over 20 dollars. Actually I have no idea why the SS 4x4 is so cheap; it might have more to do with the factory and costs rather than with the complexity of the puzzle. Having said this I find it hard to believe that someone could make a puzzle that is better and still cheap enough to be a "better choice".

YJ has been a very cheap company so far so it's hard to say. All I know is that the search for a good 4x4 has been over after the introduction ofKonsta/florian mods to the SS 4x4.


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## YOUdudex (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> The thing is that the V5 is already pretty awesome with just a konsta mod. If its twice the price and only a little better I dont see it would have a big market. The X-Cube goes around 35 dollars and often other good 4x4s go at over 20 dollars. Actually I have no idea why the SS 4x4 is so cheap; it might have more to do with the factory and costs rather than with the complexity of the puzzle. Having said this I find it hard to believe that someone could make a puzzle that is better and still cheap enough to be a "better choice".
> 
> YJ has been a very cheap company so far so it's hard to say. All I know is that the search for a good 4x4 has been over after the introduction ofKonsta/florian mods to the SS 4x4.



Not everyone can mod cubes and make them better


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

YOUdudex said:


> Not everyone can mod cubes and make them better



I've Florian- and konstamodded a SSv4 4x4 with a piece of sand paper and a nail file; Konstamod can be done with a single nail file easily in under 60 minutes. So yeah, I'd say everyone can mod cubes and make them better.


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## youngcuber1 (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> I've Florian- and konstamodded a SSv4 4x4 with a piece of sand paper and a nail file; Konstamod can be done with a single nail file easily in under 60 minutes. So yeah, I'd say everyone can mod cubes and make them better.


I'm too afraid to florian mod my shengshou 4x4x4 v5 because I don't want to ruin a great cube.


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> Having said this I find it hard to believe that someone could make a puzzle that is better and still cheap enough to be a "better choice".



I don't think you realise just how cheap cubes are for people who have full time jobs and no kids.

$8 for a SS which is the best available choice! If a 4x4 comes out which is even arguably marginally better for less than $50 I, and many others, would happily spend the money on a puzzle which can give hundreds of hours of entertainment.

£12 to go to the cinema. £5 for popcorn and a drink. 2 hrs of entertainment for the best part of $30. Cubing is ridiculously cheap in comparison.


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## stoic (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> I've Florian- and konstamodded a SSv4 4x4 with a piece of sand paper and a nail file; Konstamod can be done with a single nail file easily in under 60 minutes. So yeah, I'd say everyone can mod cubes and make them better.



I agree with cube-o-holic. 

60 minutes? In one go!? You'd be surprised how little free time some of us have...


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## kcl (Sep 24, 2013)

youngcuber1 said:


> I'm too afraid to florian mod my shengshou 4x4x4 v5 because I don't want to ruin a great cube.



Just round off the internals. It's pretty tricky to mess it up.


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> I don't think you realise just how cheap cubes are for people who have full time jobs and no kids.
> 
> $8 for a SS which is the best available choice! If a 4x4 comes out which is even arguably marginally better for less than $50 I, and many others, would happily spend the money on a puzzle which can give hundreds of hours of entertainment.
> 
> £12 to go to the cinema. £5 for popcorn and a drink. 2 hrs of entertainment for the best part of $30. Cubing is ridiculously cheap in comparison.



Some of us value our time more than you do apparently. If it was a 38 dollar cube and I could make mod the SS cube in less than 2-3 hours depending on what you get paid for work, I'd be making a rational choice from an economic point of view. Even if it's a 20 dollar cube it'd still be wise for most to mod a SS v5 themselves.



ellwd said:


> I agree with cube-o-holic.
> 
> 60 minutes? In one go!? You'd be surprised how little free time some of us have...





Really bad excuse, anyone can spare 60 minutes seeing as the mod will last for the whole life of the cube. 60 minutes was my estimation of how long it would take at the most. I finished my last konsta mod in around 25-30mins. If you dont have 60 mins how on earth do you have time to cube? Who said you had to do it in one go. Also you are acting as if all cubers are fathers/mothers of 5. Most are barely 20 years old and do have the time. All this was assumed in my first post. I still believe Shengshou will hold the place as the most preferred 4x4 unless this is as good and as cheap. No matter how you put it you are not making the best rational choice if you are paying more for a cube that is not worth the increase in price.

Nevertheless I'm excited to see how this cube will turn out; The X-cube is not used by any really fast people out there and I dont think price really matters to people in that extreme category. If the mech was the best I suppose some would use it. We'll see if this is a game changer. Sub 30 times have been achieved with unmodded SS 4x4s so I dont really see this cubing revolutionizing the market.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> Some of us value our time more than you do apparently. If it was a 38 dollar cube and I could make mod the SS cube in less than 2-3 hours depending on what you get paid for work, I'd be making a rational choice from an economic point of view. Even if it's a 20 dollar cube it'd still be wise for most to mod a SS v5 themselves.
> 
> Really bad excuse, *anyone can spare 60 minutes* seeing as the mod will last for the whole life of the cube. 60 minutes was my estimation of how long it would take at the most. I finished my last konsta mod in around 25-30mins. If you dont have 60 mins how on earth do you have time to cube? Who said you had to do it in one go. *Also you are acting as if all cubers are fathers/mothers of 5*. Most are barely 20 years old and do have the time. All this was assumed in my first post. I still believe Shengshou will hold the place as the most preferred 4x4 unless this is as good and as cheap. No matter how you put it you are not making the best rational choice if you are paying more for a cube that is not worth the increase in price.



Is this a vague reference to someone here? Cuz yeah, I only managed about 50 3x3 solves in the last 4 days (which is like nothing to me). Sunday night I managed about 2 mins of sleep in a bed. Babies were going through a growth spurt arghhh!!


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Is this a vague reference to someone here? Cuz yeah, I only managed about 50 3x3 solves in the last 4 days (which is like nothing to me). Sunday night I managed about 2 mins of sleep in a bed. Babies were going through a growth spurt arghhh!!



No particular reason to why I used that number in particular, maybe popped to my mind subconsciously because I've seen your sig on the forums so many times 

From what I understand ShengShou is a very typical chinese company, which means a lot of production for cheap but no real room for innovation. I suppose the manufacturing process is harder with rounder pieces or something. I asked Calvin at hknowstore if he could contact SS to ask if they could sell DIY kits instead of assembled cubes (screws are soft, would make lubricating the core much easier even if it's just once) and he replied something much like what I stated; apparently there is no easy way to get them convinced to change anything in their business. MoYu on the other hand seems very flexible. After asking Calvin if he could suggest that WeiLongs were made in primary colour plastic my wish was fulfilled in like a week or two.


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## rj (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> No particular reason to why I used that number in particular, maybe popped to my mind subconsciously because I've seen your sig on the forums so many times
> 
> From what I understand ShengShou is a very typical chinese company, which means a lot of production for cheap but no real room for innovation. I suppose the manufacturing process is harder with rounder pieces or something. I asked Calvin at hknowstore if he could contact SS to ask if they could sell DIY kits instead of assembled cubes (screws are soft, would make lubricating the core much easier even if it's just once) and he replied something much like what I stated; apparently there is no easy way to get them convinced to change anything in their business. MoYu on the other hand seems very flexible. After asking Calvin if he could suggest that WeiLongs were made in primary colour plastic my wish was fulfilled in like a week or two.



Well, YJ is a big company. SS is not. YJ isn't specalized. SS is.


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

rj said:


> Well, YJ is a big company. SS is not. YJ isn't specalized. SS is.



On what knowledge do you base this claim? Also smaller companies are more likely to make custom orders/listen customers, because they have to grow. Big companies have no such problems. Especially in the molding plastic business where they make a big profit anyhow.


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## rj (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> On what knowledge do you base this claim? Also smaller companies are more likely to make custom orders/listen customers, because they have to grow. Big companies have no such problems. Especially in the molding plastic business where they make a big profit anyhow.



Shengshou has a small margin. http://www.yongjuntoys.com/en/Product.asp?mywebitemid=29 They're big.


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## stoic (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> Really bad excuse, anyone can spare 60 minutes


Like I say, you'd be surprised. 60-120 minutes is probably the amount of time I legitimately cube in a week. (I generally only browse the forums while I'm eating.) Out of that time, I'd rather be cubing than modding. I recently changed my sig to Ao50 as the last time I had the time to do an Ao100 in one go was last October. 



windhero said:


> Also you are acting as if all cubers are fathers/mothers of 5. Most are barely 20 years old and do have the time. All this was assumed in my first post.


No, I'm just relating my own experience. It was you that said:


windhero said:


> Konstamod can be done with a single nail file easily in under 60 minutes. So yeah, I'd say everyone can mod cubes and make them better.


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## Michael Womack (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> On what knowledge do you base this claim? Also smaller companies are more likely to make custom orders/listen customers, because they have to grow. Big companies have no such problems. Especially in the molding plastic business where they make a big profit anyhow.



Well Yj makes many cubes 3 or 4 different types 2x2-7x7 also makes a pillowed 9x9 and many other non-WCA puzzles. SS Mainly makes WCA puzzles and one type at a time.


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> If it was a 38 dollar cube and I could make mod the SS cube in less than 2-3 hours depending on what you get paid for work.



£6.31 is minimum wage in the UK for someone 21+.
3 hrs modding is ~$30 at that rate, over 3 times more than the cube costs.
I have a painstakingly modded SS4 v3 and it's just not that great.
I believe the person who made it said they spent >10hrs on it to make it perfect.

I know a lot of people want a great (not just passable) 4x4 straight out of the box and are willing to pay more than $8 for one.



windhero said:


> Some of us value our time more than you do apparently.



???

Really? How did you get that from what I said?

I have bought 2 SS 5x5s from Florian because I value my spare time highly,


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> £6.31 is minimum wage in the UK for someone 21+.
> 3 hrs modding is ~$30 at that rate, over 3 times more than the cube costs.
> I have a painstakingly modded SS4 v3 and it's just not that great.
> I believe the person who made it said they spent >10hrs on it to make it perfect.
> ...



Time = money, you'd rather waste money than save it by paying too high of a price. If the puzzle is 8 dollars and it takes 30 minutes to mod the total cost is 18 dollars with an hourly wage of 20 dollars an hour. If you are willing to pay more than that you are essentially wasting money.

Also the V5 does not need a florian mod to be great, it needs a konsta mod which takes 20-30mins to do.


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## KongShou (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> Time = money, you'd rather waste money than save it by paying too high of a price. If the puzzle is 8 dollars and it takes 30 minutes to mod the total cost is 18 dollars with an hourly wage of 20 dollars an hour. If you are willing to pay more than that you are essentially wasting money.
> 
> Also the V5 does not need a florian mod to be great, it needs a konsta mod which takes 20-30mins to do.



i dont see what your point is

everyone should mod their puzzles instead of buying new ones?


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> Time = money, you'd rather waste money than spend it by overpaying. Also the V5 does not need a florian mod to be great, it needs a konsta mod which takes 20-30mins to do.



Cubing is cheap! It might be 'wasting' money but it's not very much money.
You spend hours modding cubes, I pay other people to do it because they charge less per hour than what I get paid at work.

If you read the words I wrote I bought 2 5x5s from Florian.
You can't Konsta mod a 5x5 and the SS4 v5 doesn't respond well to Konsta mod so I have no idea what you're talking about.


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

KongShou said:


> i dont see what your point is
> 
> everyone should mod their puzzles instead of buying new ones?



You should read back to my first comment and cube-o-holics reaction instead of making assumptions based on the last page of the discussion.



cube-o-holic said:


> Cubing is cheap! It might be 'wasting' money but it's not very much money.
> You spend hours modding cubes, I pay other people to do it because they charge less per hour than what I get paid at work.
> 
> If you read the words I wrote I bought 2 5x5s from Florian.
> You can't Konsta mod a 5x5 and the SS4 v5 doesn't respond well to Konsta mod so I have no idea what you're talking about.


This thread is about the new 4x4, which I have compared to a SS 4x4 logically. No one has been talking about the 5x5 except for you. And yes, the SS 4x4 v5 responds well to a konstamod. How do I know? Because I've tried the cube without a mod and with the mod and modded it myself. Which took 30 minutes. Not hours. This is why I said the 4x4 does not need the Florian mod, because Florian mod is the mod that can take hours to make where as the konsta mod is a very minor and short mod that improves the puzzle a lot.

Cubing is cheap was never the point. What is cheap to you is not cheap to everyone. This statement also does not imply that I personally cannot pay for puzzles; I just happen to have noticed that many people on these forums are in their teens and probably do not have the funds to buy any puzzle whether its 10 or 30 bucks. This is where I found my belief. This is why I assume 30mins of work with a nail file on a 8 dollar cube might be the more attractive option compared to a potentially expensive puzzle. But as said in the very first post, we'll see what the price is.

As I stated in the very beginning, I believe that price has a major role to play on how popular this cube will be.


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## rj (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> You should read back to my first comment and cube-o-holics reaction instead of making assumptions based on the last page of the discussion.
> 
> 
> This thread is about the new 4x4, which I have compared to a SS 4x4 logically. No one has been talking about the 5x5 except for you. And yes, the SS 4x4 v5 responds well to a konstamod. How do I know? Because I've tried the cube without a mod and with the mod and modded it myself. Which took 30 minutes. Not hours. This is why I said the 4x4 does not need the Florian mod, because Florian mod is the mod that can take hours to make where as the konsta mod is a very minor and short mod that improves the puzzle a lot.
> ...



If it is good, I will get it if it's <$20. I'm not rich. I'm 12. I don't have a job. I do odd jobs for people. Teens should get jobs.


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> Also the V5 does not need a florian mod to be great, it needs a konsta mod which takes 20-30mins to do.



The SS4 v5 comes Konsta 'modded'.

You blame the off topic discussion on me but it occurred because of this post.



windhero said:


> Now everything is about the price. If it's much more expensive than a SS v5, I dont see a market for this. Looks interesting though!



Which is ridiculous!


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## KongShou (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> You should read back to my first comment and cube-o-holics reaction instead of making assumptions based on the last page of the discussion.
> 
> 
> This thread is about the new 4x4, which I have compared to a SS 4x4 logically. No one has been talking about the 5x5 except for you. And yes, the SS 4x4 v5 responds well to a konstamod. How do I know? Because I've tried the cube without a mod and with the mod and modded it myself. Which took 30 minutes. Not hours. This is why I said the 4x4 does not need the Florian mod, because Florian mod is the mod that can take hours to make where as the konsta mod is a very minor and short mod that improves the puzzle a lot.
> ...



tbh 30 dollars is not much at all

i paid 45 quid for GTA 5 and i didnt think that was much

also so did all my friends and they are all in their teens . 30 bucks which i assume to be around 20 pounds ish is not that expensive to the point where people will not buy it cos its expensive


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> The SS4 v5 comes Konsta 'modded'.



Have you guys even tried a straight out of the box v5 and a konstamodded one? Yes, the internals are not improved but they are not konstamodded. The cube still needs a minor konstamod to prevent inner lock ups. I know because I have actually tried this out and I have tested it. I've tried the cube out of the box, modded it and tried it again. I also have an out of the box V5 and a konstamodded one right in front of me and its very clear based on performance alone which is which.

The point was never what is expensive as I've said now several times. It is about being rational and not overpaying. Rational choice theory, google it if you dont subconsciously understand it.

Here I am arguing about the difference of modded and unmodded cubes with people that based on their replies have never modded anything. Funny how it ended like this.


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 24, 2013)

My SS4 v5 didn't have any internal lock ups straight out of the box.
SS modified their design to make the Konsta mod unnecessary.
I've heard that Konsta modding them despite not needing to can result in major problems with the cube.
If you are just tickling the cube with a nail file you probably aren't doing anything that a couple of hundred solves wouldn't.


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## rj (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> Have you guys even tried a straight out of the box v5 and a konstamodded one? Yes, the internals are not improved but they are not konstamodded. The cube still needs a minor konstamod to prevent inner lock ups. I know because I have actually tried this out and I have tested it. I've tried the cube out of the box, modded it and tried it again. I also have an out of the box V5 and a konstamodded one right in front of me and its very clear based on performance alone which is which.



That's your _opinion_, not a fact. Breaking in has the same effect.


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 24, 2013)

rj said:


> That's your _opinion_, not a fact. Breaking in has the same effect.



Not to mention the placebo effect from taking a cube apart, spending 30 mins working on it, then putting it back together. Adds up to a belief in a 'better' cube.


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> My SS4 v5 didn't have any internal lock ups straight out of the box.
> SS modified their design to make the Konsta mod unnecessary.
> *I've heard* that Konsta modding them despite not needing to can result in major problems with the cube.
> If you are just tickling the cube with a nail file you probably aren't doing anything that a couple of hundred solves wouldn't.



Yeah well you'll never know until you do it yourself. I can tell from my own experience that it helps. It also cannot be reproduced by solving the cube a few hundred times. If plastic wore down that fast I should have an overmodded and unusable 4x4, because I have done close to 1000 solves after the mod. Overmodding is a bad job, it does not in any way represent what a good mod does to a cube. If someone says that konstamodding a V5 breaks the cube, they have overmodded it.



rj said:


> That's your _opinion_, not a fact. Breaking in has the same effect.


Actually it is all about how much the plastic there is on the pieces. If there is too much, it locks up. If there is too little, it breaks. If there is the right amount the cube performs well. It has nothing to do with opinions, it has to do with how the pieces move around the mechanism. This is not about the feeling of the cube; Its about modding the cube to avoid lockups. This is why people mod cubes. Not for the placebo, but for the result. This is why cube-o-holic according to his own words has bought atleast 2 modded cubes. I base my results on testing, not on how it feels.

[youtube]v=XDmnaHI8gY4[/youtube]


Also all of your arguments have actually backed up my initial statement, hope you realized that.


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## Ninja Storm (Sep 24, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> Not to mention the placebo effect from taking a cube apart, spending 30 mins working on it, then putting it back together. Adds up to a belief in a 'better' cube.



I feel like the most improvement, in that case, is from the fact that people usually lube their cube when they mod it.


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## KongShou (Sep 24, 2013)

windhero said:


> Also all of your arguments have actually backed up my initial statement, hope you realized that.



how


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## windhero (Sep 24, 2013)

KongShou said:


> how



If the you do not even need to konsta mod the V5, then its a great cube out of the box for 8 dollars. Which makes it that much harder to beat. Which is why price matters.


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## mark49152 (Sep 24, 2013)

I earn a fair amount per hour, but I'm not going to earn any extra by not spending 3 hours modding. Besides which, modding is fun, even if it doesn't really improve the cube, and it brightens up my last 3 hours at work to think about the modding I'm about to do unpaid at home. Just my useless 2 cents there (which is about the value of a modded internal edge).


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## kcl (Sep 25, 2013)

windhero said:


> If the you do not even need to konsta mod the V5, then its a great cube out of the box for 8 dollars. Which makes it that much harder to beat. Which is why price matters.



But if the cube is better, do we care? People are lazy. Why use more effort when it's not necessary? It's called efficiency. So if we can get a better cube, for only *insert dollar value, I'll guess $10 more*, why would we not pick to pay the extra $10 and not have to waste hours of our lives? If paying $10 more will give you a better cube than modding one for hours, it's honestly a no brainer.

In all honesty, let's get real here. You people started a flame war over a cube you haven't tried yet, and don't even know the price range. Really? 

I'm done. 
-Kennan


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 25, 2013)

windhero said:


> If the you do not even need to konsta mod the V5, then its a great cube out of the box for 8 dollars. Which makes it that much harder to beat. Which is why price matters.



But nobody ever said the SS4 v5 is bad because it has internal lock ups.

The cube is OK but it's not great by any stretch of the imagination.



kclejeune said:


> In all honesty, let's get real here. You people started a flame war over a cube you haven't tried yet, and don't even know the price range. Really?



I wouldn't consider that a flame war and it started because an assumption was made with no evidence or knowledge to back it up. It kind of just escalated from there.


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## windhero (Sep 25, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> But nobody ever said the SS4 v5 is bad because it has internal lock ups.
> 
> The cube is OK but it's not great by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> ...


I'd really want to know what you are using for a 4x4 because what I have can be easily described as great. And out of the box the inner layers lock up. You can test that by doing the PLL parity over and over with an out of the box SS 4x4 v5. What do you base your opinion on? I base mine on having tried an unmodded cube and a modded one and then comparing the two by doing timed solved and comparing the standard deviation of the solves.

You are not going to get a 4x4 that performs like a 3x3. The reason to this is that there is plastic in the way (edge pieces).

And I agree on the last part: No one was insulted, there was no flaming. It was just a heated argument that never ended up in an agreement. That does not mean it was a bad discussion.


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 25, 2013)

As I have already stated (albeit deleted now) I have a Konsta and Florian modded SS4 v3 and have a SS4 v5 which straight out of the box didn't have internal lock ups.



windhero said:


> You are not going to get a 4x4 that performs like a 3x3.



Another assumption based on nothing.
Yes, I expect that I will be able to purchase a 4x4 which performs almost as well as a 3x3 at some point in the future.

The MF8 + Dayan V1 was amazing except it was a little too big and popped like crazy. That was their 1st attempt at a 4x4 and have failed miserably to improve upon the design. That doesn't mean that the quality won't be reproduced in the future without the cons.

Do you realise how far 4x4s have come in a few years? Faz was breaking WRs with a QJ mini.

Anyway, I'm done. I have nothing left to say to you.


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## windhero (Sep 25, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> As I have already stated (albeit deleted now) I have a Konsta and Florian modded SS4 v3 and have a SS4 v5 which straight out of the box didn't have internal lock ups.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You nicely left out the bit where I explained why its not possible. If you look into the mech you will understand why a 4x4 cannot possibly cut 45 degrees and thus cant be like a 3x3. If it ever was to cut 45 degrees it would have to make the corner piece and edgepieces extend out of the cube, which I dont really see happening with any desing. The SS 4x4 V5 already cuts halfway to the piece next to it (line to line or 30 degrees) which translates to 45 degrees on a 3x3. The reason you cant really cut any more than that is that the pieces get in the way.

I started cubing around '08 and bought my first 4x4 around that time. Now I have 7 different 4x4s so yeah, I'd say I know what has changed and what has not. Still there are physical limitations to cubes that are hard to change. The new cube wont cut anything more than an X-cube 4 if its based on the x-cube 4 mech.

Quit assuming I know nothing and try to base your arguments on some actual facts.


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## yoinneroid (Sep 25, 2013)

windhero said:


> The new cube wont cut anything more than an X-cube 4 if its based on the x-cube 4 mech.



Hmm? why?
Regular cutting, umm I guess.
But how about reverse cutting?


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## windhero (Sep 25, 2013)

yoinneroid said:


> Hmm? why?
> Regular cutting, umm I guess.
> But how about reverse cutting?


Each mechanism has it's limits. If it is based off the x-cube mech it will face the same limitations. With this I was mostly backing up my claim on why a 4x4 cant really cut any better than 30 degrees. By shaving off some plastic 30 degrees can be achieved but anything well above that cant happen in my opinion.

Reverse cutting might be a bit better because the roundness of the edgepieces, corner pieces and center corners actually matters there. The WeiSu-pieces look a little rounder than the X-cube 4 pieces (http://www.fasttech.com/products/2115/10002275/1165701-x-cube-4x4x4-puzzle-speed-cube)

Generally I think people are expecting too much out of bigger order cubes. I personally cannot come up with a feasible way to make a 4x4 cut 45 degrees or anything close it, because the rest of the pieces get in the way.


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## rj (Sep 25, 2013)

windhero said:


> Each mechanism has it's limits. If it is based off the x-cube mech it will face the same limitations. With this I was mostly backing up my claim on why a 4x4 cant really cut any better than 30 degrees. By shaving off some plastic 30 degrees can be achieved but anything well above that cant happen in my opinion.
> 
> Reverse cutting might be a bit better because the roundness of the edgepieces, corner pieces and center corners actually matters there. The WeiSu-pieces look a little rounder than the X-cube 4 pieces (http://www.fasttech.com/products/2115/10002275/1165701-x-cube-4x4x4-puzzle-speed-cube)
> 
> Generally I think people are expecting too much out of bigger order cubes. I personally cannot come up with a feasible way to make a 4x4 cut 45 degrees or anything close it, because the rest of the pieces get in the way.



I think it's possible, but you would probably sacrifice a lot of smoothness.


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## PeelingStickers (Sep 25, 2013)

my 4x4 can cut 45 on some sides, yet I think it sucks.

Also it rarely ever pops. It is slightly loose though


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## rj (Sep 25, 2013)

PeelingStickers said:


> my 4x4 can cut 45 on some sides, yet I think it sucks.
> 
> Also it rarely ever pops. It is slightly loose though



I Know what you mean. I have a SS 4x4 v1, and it's loud as hell. But it works OK.


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## windhero (Sep 25, 2013)

PeelingStickers said:


> my 4x4 can cut 45 on some sides, yet I think it sucks.
> 
> Also it rarely ever pops. It is slightly loose though


I'd love to see video material of this, because to be honest, I dont see that happening.


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## rj (Sep 25, 2013)

windhero said:


> I'd love to see video material of this, because to be honest, I dont see that happening.



Are you saying that he's lying?


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## windhero (Sep 25, 2013)

rj said:


> Are you saying that he's lying?



Yep. Atleast overestimating the actual amount of corner cutting. I'm inviting anyone to examine what would hypothetically happen inside a 4x4 when cutting 45 degrees.


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## PeelingStickers (Sep 25, 2013)

windhero said:


> Yep. Atleast overestimating the actual amount of corner cutting. I'm inviting anyone to examine what would hypothetically happen inside a 4x4 when cutting 45 degrees.



OK, I'll do a video. Not saying its smooth and easy as a 3x3, and only a couple sides do it, but it is possible.


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## windhero (Sep 25, 2013)

PeelingStickers said:


> OK, I'll do a video. Not saying its smooth and easy as a 3x3, and only a couple sides do it, but it is possible.



Thanks, I'm just curious. If possible can you scramble the cube and try to solve it too?

I'm pretty sure I can make a cube cut 45 too but it would be so prone to pop and catchy that it wouldnt really count.


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## PeelingStickers (Sep 25, 2013)

windhero said:


> Thanks, I'm just curious. If possible can you scramble the cube and try to solve it too?
> 
> I'm pretty sure I can make a cube cut 45 too but it would be so prone to pop and catchy that it wouldnt really count.



ok I'll also do that. For constructive purposes and not to post a stupid "I prove you wrong" type of comment, the cube seems to slide across to a cuttable position as you apply force upwards, then cut in one sweep. It is only possible to do this while cutting upwards rather than downwards. As a result of this by cutting downwards only around 35-40 degress is the maximum possible. It's harder without lube but still easily cuts 45 without by cutting up.


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## windhero (Sep 25, 2013)

PeelingStickers said:


> ok I'll also do that. For constructive purposes and not to post a stupid "I prove you wrong" type of comment, the cube seems to slide across to a cuttable position as you apply force upwards, then cut in one sweep. It is only possible to do this while cutting upwards rather than downwards. As a result of this by cutting downwards only around 35-40 degress is the maximum possible. It's harder without lube but still easily cuts 45 without by cutting up.



That's kinda what I expected. Imo that does not count as "cuts 45" because it actually slides to around 30 degrees, locks for a bit and then cuts 30 degrees. This means the cube is too loose and that the move is not one single move. During a solve it would lock up, not cut the 45 degrees. You can reproduce this problem with a good 3x3 that has been tensioned wrong; The first part of the move slides the pieces to a point where the cube can cut, then it locks up and then it actually cuts the corner.


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## PeelingStickers (Sep 25, 2013)

The video is pretty self explanatory (I don't solve 4x4 much and average a little faster with redux, but the solve isn't really the point).

IMO, I wouldn't really call it 45 either, definitely not downwards as it cannot be reproduced on all sides. Nevertheless, around 40 is achievable.


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## windhero (Sep 25, 2013)

PeelingStickers said:


> The video is pretty self explanatory (I don't solve 4x4 much and average a little faster with redux, but the solve isn't really the point).
> 
> IMO, I wouldn't really call it 45 either, definitely not downwards as it cannot be reproduced on all sides. Nevertheless, around 40 is achievable.



40 degrees on all sides? Have you had that on a cube? Because I'd think it would be very prone to pop with those tensions.


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## PeelingStickers (Sep 25, 2013)

windhero said:


> 40 degrees on all sides? Have you had that on a cube? Because I'd think it would be very prone to pop with those tensions.



I've never had it pop in a solve, it is pretty loose and a bit locky, definitely not the best 4x4 Ive ever felt. It was also my first mod so it is a bit sucky. But this results in pretty crazy outer layers that can do stuff like this.


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## windhero (Sep 25, 2013)

PeelingStickers said:


> I've never had it pop in a solve, it is pretty loose and a bit locky, definitely not the best 4x4 Ive ever felt. It was also my first mod so it is a bit sucky. But this results in pretty crazy outer layers that can do stuff like this.


So would you agree that the corner cuts cost that cube its stability? I think have a pretty much perfect SS 4x4 that is not loose or tight and cuts around 25-30 degrees on all sides. Loosening any sides makes it instantly unstable and more prone to pop or/and lock up. This is why I find it weird that anyone else could get better results with the same cube since I've fiddled with SS 4x4s quite a bit.


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## PeelingStickers (Sep 25, 2013)

windhero said:


> So would you agree that the corner cuts cost that cube its stability? I think have a pretty much perfect SS 4x4 that is not loose or tight and cuts around 25-30 degrees on all sides. Loosening any sides makes it instantly unstable and more prone to pop or/and lock up. This is why I find it weird that anyone else could get better results with the same cube since I've fiddled with SS 4x4s quite a bit.



I would say the quality of my 4x4 overall is not very good, definitely better after modding but not as good as my other cubes (like my 5x5). These tensions were pretty much the only decent ones I could find that didn't result in the cube being very tight and even catchier and/or pop if loosened. The corner cutting is useful, but I'd doubt that they have any effect on a solve.


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