# Nice Z PLL for OH



## Kenneth (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm using COLL and because of that I get a lot of Z PLL's (1:6 if I do not count all times I do ZBLL or enforce a U PLL while doing COLL = half ZB).

Z PLL is not fun to do OH and I tried many algs before I found one that "works"

E2 R E r2 R2 E R L2 E2

I use the thumb to push the E slice so I do not have to go U+D. E2 I push as two E's so it's for real 11 turns but pretty fast, at least for me.

Edit: forgot, the alg affects the R side not U. I used a UME alg to make this one but changed U->R and M->E = cube orient z before the alg.


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## watermelon (Mar 6, 2008)

What about with the 2-gen Z-perm? R' U' R U' R U R U' R' U R U R2 U' R' U2


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## FU (Mar 6, 2008)

Or U R' U' R U' R U R U' R' U R U R2 U' R' U


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## Pedro (Mar 6, 2008)

yeah, I use the common alg, x' R U' R' U D...

don't know how you can be fast with E turns...and OH


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## Gunnar (Mar 6, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> I'm using COLL and because of that I get a lot of Z PLL's (1:6 if I do not count all times I do ZBLL or enforce a U PLL while doing COLL = half ZB).
> 
> Z PLL is not fun to do OH and I tried many algs before I found one that "works"
> 
> ...



Seriously, that must be one of the worst OH-algs I've tried.  Al those slice moves take forever. I use:

(x') R U' R' U (z') R U' R (z) U' R' U R D2


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## Kenneth (Mar 6, 2008)

I merely do my E's as U's using the thumb. If you put the thumb at Ruf and do U then you understand how it is done. Then you only have to put your thumb one layer lower and a finger on the backside to prevent the U layer to follow the middle one, it is not that hard if you have practice it a little 

I know about those 2-gens but they are to long for me, I don't like that because I know that any short alg is a good alg if you only practice it long enough


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## AvGalen (Mar 6, 2008)

E with a thumb push is slooooooooow and puts all your fingers in a very bad position to continue.

Short algs are good, but fingertrick friendly algs are better


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 6, 2008)

Kenneth, how fast can you do this? (It took me 12 seconds.)


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## Gunnar (Mar 6, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> Kenneth, how fast can you do this? (It took me 12 seconds.)



I, myself got 12.09 with Kenneth's alg. With my own alg, which I posted a in this thread, I got 3.30 one-handed.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 6, 2008)

Gunnar said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > Kenneth, how fast can you do this? (It took me 12 seconds.)
> ...



It took me 10 seconds with your alg. But then, I'm terribly slow at OH in general, and I actually use the thumb push often when doing BLD OH edge orientation (which I actually do practice, occasionally) (but obviously not enough to switch to a sensible edge orientation algorithm  - it takes me 20 seconds to orient 4 edges BLD).


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## Pedro (Mar 7, 2008)

16.xx with Kenneths's
7.60 first try with Gunnar's
5.95 with watermelon's
5.38 with FU's
6.63 with my usual xD (EDIT: 5.37)


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## Lofty (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't understand how it can be used either... 
I use the 2-gen one.


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## Dene (Mar 7, 2008)

I have been using the 2-gen, but with a little bit now playing with my new 2H one, I might switch. It's just a variation of Gunnar's one:

(R B' R' B) (F R' F) (B' R' B R) F2 (U)


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## Lofty (Mar 7, 2008)

hmm with proper cube rotations its not bad.


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## Kenneth (Mar 7, 2008)

I can do my alg in 10-12 seconds (hey Gunnar, you are usaly at least twice as fast as I am =) I have not tried a 2-gen Z but a U 2-gen takes me around 7-9 seconds so My guess is that a Z 2-gen may be in the same range as my alg or a bit slower.

Gunnar you can do your alg that fast because you have practice it a lot. Practice mine equally much and it will not longer be 10+ for you, Maybe not sub 5 but closer to 5 than 10.

But I will try the alg you got (or the variation of Dene) those seems really intresting.


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## malcolm (Mar 7, 2008)

I use Denes one onehanded from a slightly different angle, with B as U and F as D, and do z and z' between the turns, but not full z/z' more like 30 degree rotations


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## Johannes91 (Mar 7, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> E with a thumb push is slooooooooow and puts all your fingers in a very bad position to continue.


How would you suggest doing it, then? Thumb works fine for me. Got 6.23 after a few tries with Kenneth's alg.


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## AvGalen (Mar 7, 2008)

Johannes91 said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > E with a thumb push is slooooooooow and puts all your fingers in a very bad position to continue.
> ...


I would suggest NOT doing it! 6.23 is slower compared to me doing the 2-gen OH. Me doing OH is slow compared to you doing OH, so 6.23 should be very slow compared to you doing the 2-gen OH.


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## fanwuq (Mar 8, 2008)

I use Gunnar's. It is so strange to use different algs for OH... What's a good H perm? I do LRU2L'R'...


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## Pedro (Mar 8, 2008)

Tomy's is nice:
x' r R U2' r' R' u' U' R2 U D


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## Johannes91 (Mar 8, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> Johannes91 said:
> 
> 
> > AvGalen said:
> ...


It just sounded like you were critizing using thumb, not E in general.



Pedro said:


> Tomy's is nice:
> x' r R U2' r' R' u' U' R2 U D


That's H.


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## tim (Mar 8, 2008)

Johannes91 said:


> Pedro said:
> 
> 
> > Tomy's is nice:
> ...



fanwuq asked for a good H-perm. Pedro just forgot to quote him.


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## Johannes91 (Mar 8, 2008)

Ah, ok. Didn't notice that.

x' r R U2' r' R' u' U' R2 U D = R L U2 R' L' B' F' U2 F B (x' y')


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## fanwuq (Mar 8, 2008)

I found R2U2RU2R2U2R2U2RU2R2 on lofty's site. I think I will try it.


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## Dene (Mar 8, 2008)

Yes, that is the one that I think most fast OH cubers use. I can do it sub5, so it must be good.


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## malcolm (Mar 9, 2008)

Yeah, using Denes i got a sub 4 not counting the last F, because you can account for it before the alg, and it slows me down heaps because i need to regrip


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## Swordsman Kirby (Mar 9, 2008)

I did 7.66 using (rR)2 U (rR)2 U2 (rR)2 U (rR)2, which is what I would've done for OH (but I don't do OH, so yeah), 7.75 with the <R,U> alg, and 4.56 with Tomy's alg.

I like Tomy's.


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## fanwuq (Apr 18, 2008)

4.47 Z perm and 5.17 H perm. I don't suck at half of the PLLs anymore! 
Still need to get better on N, G, V, T, R, E, F

I use tomy's H.


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## coopersacatfilms (Apr 19, 2008)

Also you could use the 2-gen algorithms but that one is the one with the M2 in it except on the right right?


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## fanwuq (Apr 19, 2008)

coopersacatfilms said:


> Also you could use the 2-gen algorithms but that one is the one with the M2 in it except on the right right?



Who?
I find the 2 gen for both H and Z slow for OH.
Z
R B' R' B F R' F B' R' B R F2 U' (do it after x' for easy fingertricks) I can get sub-4.50, 3rd fast single and average sub-6.
H
x' r R U2' r' R' u' U' R2 U D 
Fastest single at 4.07 and average sub-6.

2gen Z: I don't know it but it is 17 moves, so probably about 7 on average if I know it.
2gen H: about 6.

Kenneth's Z is optimal in STM I think.


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## Johannes91 (Apr 19, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> Kenneth's Z is optimal in STM I think.


M2 u M2 u' S' M2 S


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## fanwuq (Apr 19, 2008)

I remember there were middle slice turns on different sides for the optimal. 
This optimal solution is quite similar to Kenneth's one move less. I wonder why he does not do zx then this one.


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## Kenneth (Apr 19, 2008)

There is actually a 7 turn MSU for Z but I don't remeber it anymore, it was so slow because you had to shift between M and S sides several times.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Apr 20, 2008)

idk about you guys, but i think gunnars alg posted earlier on this topic is the BEST ONE so far! thanks gunnar!


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## watermelon (Apr 20, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> There is actually a 7 turn MSU for Z but I don't remeber it anymore, it was so slow because you had to shift between M and S sides several times.


These are 7 turn MSU algs for the Z-perm (on D):

S M2 S' U' S2 U M2
S2 U M2 U' M' S2 M
S2 U M2 U' M S2 M'
S' M2 S U' S2 U M2
M S2 M' U M2 U' S2
M2 U' S2 U S' M2 S
M2 U' S2 U S M2 S'
M' S2 M U M2 U' S2

As you said, they're not very good for OH.


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## joey (Apr 20, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> There is actually a 7 turn MSU for Z but I don't remeber it anymore, it was so slow because you had to shift between M and S sides several times.



Look two posts up. 

EDIT:
sorry, my mistake.


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