# How to solve corner orientation with sune and antisune



## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 12, 2014)

How to solve corner orientation with sune and antisune
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This guide is made for begginers that want to solve OCLL without learning the 7 OCLLs just yet. Also this guide aims at solving the OCLLs using at most one sune, AUF, and one sune/antisune.

So for solving all 7 orientations you will need to learn 2 algs first:

If you have 3 wrong corners:

The Sune

Put the solved corner on the front left position and apply the alg:
R U R' U R U2 R'

The Anti-sune

Put the solved corner on the back right position and apply the alg:
R U2 R' U' R U' R'

So if you have 3 wrong corners you know how to solve.

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> Now if you don't have exactly 3 wrong corners, you will reduce the case to have 3 wrong corners. This is how you do it:



If you have 4 wrong corners:

Put a wrong corner *pointing left on the front left position* and *do a sune*.
Now you will have a sune to solve.

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If you have 2 wrong corners:

Put a wrong corner *pointing front on the front left position* and *do a sune*.
Now you will have an anti-sune to solve.

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I hope this guide can help.

Please comment!


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## Chree (Jun 12, 2014)

That's actually a really interesting way of looking at those cases.

I've been trying to come up with some sort of scheme to help my girlfriend remember where to start her sunes for beginner CO. So this might come in handy... thanks!


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## Renslay (Jun 12, 2014)

That is actually pretty useful!

I used to teach something like this:

Sune (R U R' U R U2 R') will bring up the stickers of FUR, RUB and BUL.
If you have only one yellow sticker on top, then it is sune or anti-sune (trivial case).
If you have less or more yellow stickers (non-trivial case), then search for an AUF, and see what would a sune do (which yellows come up, and which ones disappear to the side). Out of the 4 possible AUFs, there is (at least) one in which a sune would cause an exactly-one-yellow-sticker-on-up case (which is of course a sune or anti-sune case).

For example, let's see your last image: the yellow stickers are FUL, UFR, RUB and UBL. A sune would leave FUL (yellow sticker remains on F), turns the UFR (the F color would go up, yellow goes to R side), turns the RUB (R sticker goes up, which is yellow in this case), and turns BUL (the B sticker would go up, and the yellow sticker disappears). So, overall, we would have only one yellow sticker on up: this is the right AUF, and do a sune. Right after, do a sune or anti-sune (anti-sune in this case).

But I have to admit, this is a much easier way for begginers! Thank you for sharing. :tu


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 12, 2014)

Thanks for you feedback.


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## Petro Leum (Jun 12, 2014)

good explanation! i wish i had has that when i had my rubiks cube workshop at school. was pretty hard to teach stuff like that w/o material


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 12, 2014)

Petro Leum said:


> good explanation! i wish i had has that when i had my rubiks cube workshop at school. was pretty hard to teach stuff like that w/o material



thanks. I successfully taught my dad this method, he got it really well.


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## DeeDubb (Jun 12, 2014)

Actually, this is an upgrade for the orientation portion my Roux 2 algorithm CMLL video. The recognition is a bit better than the way I did it.


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## Cubenovice (Jun 13, 2014)

Let's call it a usefull reminder for new cubers.


But actually this is very old stuff


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 13, 2014)

Take out the "2 wrong corners" case, and do the same as you would for 4 corners.

To make it even simpler, take out the anti-Sune case.
This is how I teach it:


1 corner solved: make sure the ULF sticker is yellow
Otherwise: make sure the LUF sticker is yellow
Do a Sune (and start over)

It might take longer, but they will never get stuck.
For this kind of approach, it doesn't really get simpler than that.


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## DeeDubb (Jun 13, 2014)

This is how I described it. I went through all the cases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVqfBvWrqHk

I might improve to a more simple description, but I think this isn't too bad. It was sort of just a flowchart from one to the next.


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 13, 2014)

Lucas Garron said:


> Take out the "2 wrong corners" case, and do the same as you would for 4 corners.
> 
> To make it even simpler, take out the anti-Sune case.
> This is how I teach it:
> ...



The title of this guide is "how to use sune and antisune to solve OCLL". Not "how to use sune several times to solve OCLL".


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 13, 2014)

filipemtx said:


> The title of this guide is "how to use sune and antisune to solve OCLL". Not "how to use sune several times to solve OCLL".



You're using them multiple times, though?

The first post states that "This guide is made for begginers who are learning to solve the cube and don't know OCLL yet."
For true beginners, it is my experience-backed observation that you should aim to keep it as simple as possible.

(It is not true that "you will need to learn 2 algs". You should figure out what exactly the purpose of this guide is, and make sure the steps and claims match that.)

Edit: Oh. It appears that your objective is to solve OCLL using at most two [anti-]Sunes. You should state this very clearly, and perhaps add a short remark on tradeoffs (number of cases/algs to memorize vs. number of algs you need to execute in a normal solve). I also suggest changing the "who are learning to solve the cube" phrase. Presumably this is for beginners who *have learned to solve the cube*, and are now taking small steps to improve. (This is definitely a good step for that.)


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 13, 2014)

Lucas Garron said:


> You're using them multiple times, though?
> 
> The first post states that "This guide is made for begginers who are learning to solve the cube and don't know OCLL yet."
> For true beginners, it is my experience-backed observation that you should aim to keep it as simple as possible.
> ...



I wanted to make a easy and efficient guide. And 2 algs are not that bad.

EDIT: I changed the guide description.


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 13, 2014)

filipemtx said:


> I wanted to make a easy and efficient guide. And 2 algs are not that bad.



2 algs are definitely not that bad.

However, 1 works nearly as well. I just did quick calculation for the descriptions in your and my post.
Yours averages 1.63 algs/solve, while mine averages 2.22.

I think doing an extra alg half the time is still pretty efficient.

For instructing beginners, I'd argue that making the description simpler (namely: using one alg and a single way to handle non-Sune cases) is worth the tradeoff. If they get to the point where two algs for a single step are not that bad, pretty soon 7 will not be that bad either.


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 13, 2014)

I agree.


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 13, 2014)

filipemtx said:


> EDIT: I changed the guide description.



Thanks, that definitely makes it more clear.

You could possibly make it even more clear with something like: "solving any OCLL using at most two algs: *one* sune, AUF, and then *one* sune/antisune".
It might seem subtle, but these details matter – especially if you're targeting beginners.


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 13, 2014)

Ok. Next step would be doing a guide showing how to solve the 57 OLLs using sune/antisune variations.


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 13, 2014)

filipemtx said:


> Ok. Next step would be doing a guide showing how to solve the 57 OLLs using sune/antisune variations.



Maybe. However, here's the approach that comes to my mind when you mention that:

- one of F U R U' R' F' or F R U R' U' F', followed by
- Sune or anti-Sune

If you allow mirrors, you can get most OLLs (that have two edges flipped) directly into a Sune or anti-Sune. YOu don't even need to memorize anything.

Before spending a lot of time working on a system, think about what you're really trying to do. (Unless you just want a fun exercise.)


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## 10461394944000 (Jun 13, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=609nhVzg-5Q&t=17m48s


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## guysensei1 (Jun 13, 2014)

Lucas Garron said:


> Maybe. However, here's the approach that comes to my mind when you mention that:
> 
> - one of F U R U' R' F' or F R U R' U' F', followed by
> - Sune or anti-Sune
> ...




Why not use sune,antisune, fat sune and fat antisune? Along with their mirrors. Even less memorizing.


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 13, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Why not use sune,antisune, fat sune and fat antisune? Along with their mirrors. Even less memorizing.



Because it's easier to use your head to calculate the effect of two adjacent corner rotations (instead of three).
Wide Sunes are useful and easy to learn, but try this:

- Set up any "annoying" (2-edges flipped) OLL.
- If it has two opposite edges, figure out if one of the two AUFs for F R U R' U' F' will give you a single oriented corner.
- If it has two adjacent edges, figure out whether F U R U' R' F' or its mirror will give you a single oriented corner.

I've never really sat down to learn this, but it was so easy that I just got used to it. I can do it in a split-second now; I could describe the visual cues I use, but they're easy to derive by looking at the case.
Come to think of it, this has part of my ELS strategy for a long time. (Along with wide Sunes and whatever else I happened to know.)


Of course, if you're going to be learning full OLL anyhow, I recommend compound OLL instead. If you'll be going for speed some day, fast recognition is more important than the number of algs/moves you use.


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 13, 2014)

> Before spending a lot of time working on a system, think about what you're really trying to do. (Unless you just want a fun exercise.)


I was kidding when I said that the next step was doing a guide on full OLL.

But I already have a diagram on how to solve all OLLs using sune variations.

http://webfront.com.br/suneoll/

RFS would be a sune starting from RF slot.
RBAS would be a antisunes from RB slot.
LBWAS would be a Fat antisune starting from the LB slot.
LFMAS would be M followed by a antisune starting from the LF slot followed by U M'.
RBMS would be M' followed by sune starting on RB followed by U' M


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## Renslay (Jun 13, 2014)

filipemtx said:


> I was kidding when I said that the next step was doing a guide on full OLL.
> 
> But I already have a diagram on how to solve all OLLs using sune variations.
> 
> ...



I don't get it. I have No19 (first image), so yellow stickers are BUL, UB, BUR, RU, FUR, FU, FUL, UL. The table says RFWAS RFWAS, so I guess the solution would be (Rw U R' U R U2 Rw')2, but it doesn't work.

EDIT: Oh, okay. I did RFWS, not RFWAS... so it is (Rw U2 R' U' R U' Rw')2.


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 14, 2014)

Renslay said:


> I don't get it. I have No19 (first image), so yellow stickers are BUL, UB, BUR, RU, FUR, FU, FUL, UL. The table says RFWAS RFWAS, so I guess the solution would be (Rw U R' U R U2 Rw')2, but it doesn't work.
> 
> EDIT: Oh, okay. I did RFWS, not RFWAS... so it is (Rw U2 R' U' R U' Rw')2.



I admit the diagram is a mess, but I plan to choose the best sequences mannually anytime.


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 18, 2014)

Also on using sune variations to solve OLL:
https://sites.google.com/site/babbyandhunny/3x3x3/beginners-oll


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