# bh for edges or corners?



## zaub3rfr4g (Mar 12, 2010)

Hi everybody,, at the moment i average about 1:25 with old pochman corners and turbo edges, with 30 sec memo, 18 sec corners and 35 sec edges.
After the montpellier open my target is to learn full bh to improve my time and i want to learn full BH. but the question is, is it better to learn it for edges or corners? Is there one which is more difficult then the other?
thanks, marco


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## xXzaKerXx (Mar 12, 2010)

Your times are awesome, but in my opinion, M2 is great already for edges, so must as well learn BH corners. but that's just my view.


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## zaub3rfr4g (Mar 12, 2010)

now i've noticed that bh uses a different buffer (UR and i'm using UF) and will probably be hard to chagne now, i think i'll move to corners


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## TheBB (Mar 12, 2010)

BH is good for corners, BH edges for 3x3 is dubious in my opinion.

It's not hard to move the buffer around by the way.


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## Toad (Mar 12, 2010)

Lean BH corners, it's one of the fastest corners method and very popular for fast solvers.

TuRBo edges is pretty good but not that many people use it as far as I know? BH corners / TuRBo edges could be a very fast combination methinks...


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 12, 2010)

Yes, you'll want to learn BH corners. It should really help there. I would do that first before you do anything for your edges.

For edges, eventually you can start looking for ways to optimize what you already do. See if you can find ways to shave a few moves off by using more optimal direct algorithms instead of setups. But that's probably all you need to do to get optimal - just slightly optimize your current TuRBo approach. I agree that BH corners / TuRBo edges could really be a fast combination.


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## Micael (Mar 12, 2010)

I am about half your speed, looking at your time for speedcubing. However, I do edges in about 35 sec too, using M2. Also, 18sec with classic pochmann corners looks very fast to me. For these reasons, I am likely to think that M2 would make your edges faster.


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## blah (Mar 12, 2010)

zaub3rfr4g said:


> now i've noticed that bh uses a different buffer (UR and i'm using UF) and will probably be hard to chagne now, i think i'll move to corners


You average 1:25. One would expect you to realize something as simple as switching the "default" buffer to your own.

If you insist on picking one and only one, pick corners for two very good reasons: Fewer "algorithms" and WAY fewer moves than Classic Pochmann. Like, WAY fewer.


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## zaub3rfr4g (Mar 12, 2010)

blah said:


> zaub3rfr4g said:
> 
> 
> > now i've noticed that bh uses a different buffer (UR and i'm using UF) and will probably be hard to chagne now, i think i'll move to corners
> ...



i know, change my buffer will not be so hard but i really like to use UF also for my memo so probably i'll change my corners


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## masterofthebass (Mar 12, 2010)

.... he meant that you can just use your buffer for BH. If you are going to learn the method, you should probably understand it first. If you actually understand it, then you should know that switching the buffer used has nothing to do with the actual method.


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## zaub3rfr4g (Mar 12, 2010)

ok my fault, but where can i find a list of all the algs with UF buffer?


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## masterofthebass (Mar 12, 2010)

Don't use a list of all the algs... All BH is commutators. Personally I don't feel the need for optimal ones either. Neither Haiyan or Ville use optimal comms, and just solve cases with algs that are the fastest. If you insist on BH, just learn the types of commutators and learn to apply them. Going through each case and learning an alg for that is definitely not the correct approach to learning in my opinion.


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## zaub3rfr4g (Mar 12, 2010)

ok so probably i'll move to bh corners cause i find corners commutators really easier then edges


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 12, 2010)

masterofthebass said:


> Don't use a list of all the algs... All BH is commutators. Personally I don't feel the need for optimal ones either. Neither Haiyan or Ville use optimal comms, and just solve cases with algs that are the fastest. If you insist on BH, just learn the types of commutators and learn to apply them. Going through each case and learning an alg for that is definitely not the correct approach to learning in my opinion.



Right - I find that it's best to learn BH by treating it as a puzzle - trying to find each algorithm one at a time yourself. When I learned BH corners, I really wanted to learn true BH first (meaning optimal commutators), so I did use the list of algorithms, but I didn't actually read the algorithm for each case - instead, I looked at the algorithm to see how many moves it was, and then tried to find an algorithm myself that had just as few moves as the official BH algorithm. That way I knew mine were as optimal as the official ones, although they might be different. I never bothered to check to see if my algorithms were the same as the one on Chris's site - that didn't matter. If it was a commutator and was an optimal number of moves, it was a true BH algorithm, whether it was on the list or not. 

And since then, I've started switching some of my algorithms for ones that are a move or two longer but faster to execute.


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## Radu (Mar 12, 2010)

Can one start learning the BH corners without knowing the R2 method? I only know the 3OP method and right now I've almost finished the M2 for edges and personally I think the 3OP is not very fast for corners and I don't like R2 too much. So, is it ok taking a look to BH corners in this stage?


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 12, 2010)

pablobaluba said:


> Can one start learning the BH corners without knowing the R2 method? I only know the 3OP method and right now I've almost finished the M2 for edges and personally I think the 3OP is not very fast for corners and I don't like R2 too much. So, is it ok taking a look to BH corners in this stage?



Of course it is OK! If you're going to learn BH, there's not much point in learning R2, since it's not very likely it will ever be faster than BH, and the two methods are really independent of each other. Might as well learn BH now. 3OP can be fast, but BH should probably be faster. It's not really that hard to learn BH, especially for corners, although it does require some dedication. You should try it. BH corners and M2 edges is quite fast.


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## Radu (Mar 12, 2010)

Ok. Thanks for your support and explanation! I'm really feeling the need of learning something new. I'm quite bored of Fridrich...nothing creative, even if I'm not that fast..only 18-19s averages.

So I decided to learn a powerful bld method and started with M2. After reading this posts I guess I will give BH a try for corners. It's not such a popular method and that makes it more interesting for me. I hope I won't loose my motivation. That's the most important thing. Thank you!


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## deadalnix (Mar 22, 2010)

BH for corner is really great. Yhe main difference between 3OP, is the fact you have to think in stickers instead of pieces (to handle both permutation and orientation).

I can also suggest you to have a look at DIADEM, which is a method that you can learn part by part as M2 improvement. At the end, you'll end up with something which is really different to M2, but the transition can be done nicely. So you can begin to learn some part of it as tricks for crappy M2 cases.


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## stradmore (Apr 10, 2010)

I got a problem here...
I don't know if I should make another topic for this but since it's about BH corners, I replied here instead...

I currently use M2/3op corners and i average about 2:20.... I really want to switch to BH corners... 

but i'm getting problems with 2 cycle pairs... 
Example.. URF and RDF are switched, as well as the DRB and LUF..
I really dont know what to do here.. so until now I'm orienting all of the corners instead and use 3 cycle due to these kind of cases...
I tried searching but i cant find 2 cycles for BH...


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## riffz (Apr 10, 2010)

stradmore said:


> I got a problem here...
> I don't know if I should make another topic for this but since it's about BH corners, I replied here instead...
> 
> I currently use M2/3op corners and i average about 2:20.... I really want to switch to BH corners...
> ...



Do you understand breaking into new cycles? So to solve this you need a fixed buffer for BH. Lets assume its URF for now. So you would first shoot to RDF, then shoot to either DRB or LUF to start a new cycle. Lets just pick DRB for arbitrary reasons. So your first cycle is:

URF -> RDF -> DRB

Then the piece at DRB needed to go to LUF, and the piece at LUF needs to go to DRB, so we have:

URF -> LUF -> DRB

You can't swap just two edges with BH corners. If you have parity, use any method you want to solve the last corner, but you can't solve the parity with BH commutators.


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## stradmore (Apr 10, 2010)

@riffz

oh i got it now...
Thanks for your reply.. that helped me a lot...
however.. there is another case that freaked me out... I want to know your thoughts on this case...

This is also 2 cycle... but the stickers for each pair wont match
It's like this...
1st Pair: URF > FRD > RUF
2nd Pair: ULF > DRB > LFU

I dont know if you got my point... 
do you also break cycles for this one??


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## deadalnix (Apr 10, 2010)

yes ! With B your buffer, you'll do :

B -> URF -> FRD
B -> RUF -> ULF
B -> DRB -> LFU


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## stradmore (Apr 10, 2010)

sorry for this but I didn't get the B part...
was that the B of DRB??


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## riffz (Apr 10, 2010)

stradmore said:


> @riffz
> 
> oh i got it now...
> Thanks for your reply.. that helped me a lot...
> ...



The thing about having a buffer is that once all the other peices are solved, your buffer will be solved and flipped properly as well.

So what deadalnix was saying was if B is your buffer position then thats what you would need to do.

EDIT: It would be much easier to help if you told us which piece/sticker you are using as your buffer.


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