# Weekly competition 2008-25



## AvGalen (Jun 18, 2008)

All current (new) scramblers from the WCA are used. 

For all 3x3x3 events (including FMC) Cube Explorer was used to generate a random position and provide an inverse scramble (generator) for that position.
For all cubes > 3x3x3 (bigcubes) a "w" means "Wide" so you turn not just the slice, but also the outer layer.
For Megaminx R and D are "double layer moves of the entire megaminx. The U moves are normal U moves, not "double layer" or cube rotations
For Square1 the new notation is not entirely clear about when to perform a slice/half-turn. I am assuming that no slice-turns are to be performed at the beginning or the end (unless the scramble begins or ends with (0,0))
Clock hasn't changed, but just so you know: *UddU u=-1,d=5* would mean Up-Left-pin is *Up*, Up-Right-pin is *Down*, Down-Left-pin is *Down*, Down-Right-pin is *Up* and that you need to turn a corner that has its pin *up* rotated *counterclockwise by 1 hour* and that you need to turn a corner that has its pin *down* rotated *clockwise by 5 hours*
*Pyraminx* hasn't changed either, but just so you know: The first (small) letters are for the tips, then come the normal moves
Just to make sure everyone understands: We follow the official WCA rules for all events. Here are some things that people often don't know: 

For multiple blind you can choose how many cubes you are going to do (let me know if 25 scrambles is not enough). If you choose 5 cubes you have to use the first 5 scrambles.
For one-handed you can use both hands during inspection
For with feet you can only use feet during inspection
For Fewest Moves there is a 1 hour time limit
For Match the scramble you can use a glas (or other construction) so you can easily look at all sides of the cube. You perform the scramble on (solved) cube 1, can use 15 seconds inspection time and the goal is to turn a solved cube into cube 1
For relay you have 15 seconds of inspection in total, you can use any order to solve the cubes and the rest of the relay-rules should be obvious
For every event you participate in you will be rewarded points. You will also be rewarded points according to your ranking. Because this is quite a complicated system you can read about it in this thread. The results of the competition will be available as soon as possible after the competition closes in this thread.

If you think other events should be added to this competition you can influence that in the 2008: Other events for Weekly competition thread 

This competition starts now and ends tuesday/wednesday nightchange (officialy), but I will only close a competition after the new one is on-line. If a competition doesn't start at tuesday/wednesday nightchange you still get the full 7 days to participate.

*2x2x2*
*1. *D2 F2 R B2 L' F U2 R F R' U2 F' U L D2 L' B' U R2 F L B' R U' F2
*2. *U R' U2 R' U' L' D B2 D2 L' B' D2 F U R' B2 R F2 R2 U F2 L' B2 R2 B'
*3. *U2 L' U L D' L' D' L' D2 F' R2 U' B' L2 U' L F' L B U R' F2 U R U
*4. *U' L' D F' R F2 D F' R' D B U' L' F U' B2 D2 L' B R2 F2 D' R' F2 U'
*5. *D R U R' F' R' B' L' D2 L D B2 D B' U2 R2 D L D B' U' B D R2 D2

*3x3x3*
*1. *R2 U' B2 D U F2 D L2 F2 L2 F2 R2 F L' F D L' U2 B2 L2 B' (21f)
*2. *F2 R2 D U2 F2 L2 D R2 U2 R2 F2 L2 F' D2 R' F U' R D B2 F' (21f)
*3. *L2 F' D2 L2 B2 L2 R2 U2 R' B2 F R' D F2 U L D' F2 U' (19f)
*4. *L' D2 R D2 L2 U2 B2 R' D2 R' F U' R2 D2 L' D F2 U' R B' R2 (21f)
*5. *R2 D2 F' U2 B' U2 L2 F R2 F2 D2 B U R' D2 B2 R U F2 L B2 (21f)

*4x4x4*
*1. *U B' Uw' U Rw B Fw Uw U Fw' F L Fw2 U2 F U' L Uw B L2 Uw' Fw U' F' R' Fw' F L2 Rw' R U Fw' R2 D' Rw2 R2 B F L' R
*2. *D' Uw F L' Rw R Fw F' Rw Fw' D2 Uw2 R Uw Fw' L2 F U B Fw' D F R2 Uw2 B Fw2 L' R2 B2 Fw' Uw' U' B2 U B' R2 Fw R2 U' L
*3. *U Fw' F U' R B2 Rw R' U R' D B' Fw2 F' L' Rw' R Fw F' D' B2 Fw2 F2 R U' Fw' R2 Uw Fw D2 B' F2 R' U' Fw2 F' L' F U2 R
*4. *U L' Rw' R' U2 Fw2 D R' U B' D B' F L Fw' D B Fw D B' Uw L' Rw2 Fw F' Rw R D2 Uw2 U' B' Fw' F D2 Rw' U' R2 B' F' U
*5. *L B Fw' F' Uw2 Rw' B' Fw2 F L2 Rw R' Uw' L F' R2 U' Fw D Uw2 R' B2 F R2 Uw2 L' Rw2 R2 D' Uw2 U Rw R U' Fw Rw2 B F' U2 Fw'

*5x5x5*
*1. *Uw' B Bw F' U' R2 D' Rw' Dw' L Lw2 B Fw2 F2 U2 L' Lw' R Fw' F L' F R Fw2 L2 Lw2 Rw2 R2 Bw2 Uw Bw Fw' Lw' F' Dw L' Lw' Rw F L2 Lw' Bw' F' R Dw2 B2 F' L2 D2 Dw2 Uw' U L' Rw B Bw2 Fw2 F' Dw2 B2
*2. *Dw Bw2 F2 L' B' Bw Fw' D2 Bw2 R' B' Bw Rw2 Fw' Lw2 Dw' L' Lw2 Rw R2 Fw' L2 Lw Rw' U2 Fw' L Fw2 F2 Lw B' R B Lw2 F' L' F' U B2 F2 Rw' B' Fw Uw2 R Bw' R2 F Rw D2 U' R' D' Bw2 Fw' Rw Uw' U' B' F'
*3. *B' Bw2 L' Lw2 Rw' R Dw2 B Fw' F R' F L B2 L2 R Uw' F' Dw' Fw' Lw D2 B Bw2 Rw' D2 F Rw2 B Fw F' U Fw' L Rw Bw2 Fw' F L Lw' Rw R Dw L2 Lw D2 Fw2 L2 Rw2 R2 Fw Uw' Lw R' Bw' Dw2 B Rw2 Dw B
*4. *U' B2 Bw2 Fw2 F2 Uw2 Lw R2 U' Bw2 R2 B' Bw2 F Dw R U2 Rw F' D2 Dw' U2 B2 D Fw2 F' L F2 Dw' Bw' F D2 Uw B' F2 R B' L Rw2 R2 B' Bw' Fw2 L2 U2 B2 Lw2 R' Bw Dw2 U' F D Dw Uw2 U2 Bw2 Fw L2 R'
*5. *F Uw2 Fw2 Rw2 B Bw' Fw2 F' Uw' R' Dw2 F U R Dw Lw2 Rw Uw2 L2 Uw2 Fw2 L' Lw2 Rw R D2 Dw2 U L' B D2 Dw L B Fw' L Rw2 Dw2 B2 Rw D' Uw' U2 Lw2 B Uw Lw' R' B2 Bw2 Fw F' Rw' R' D2 Lw2 U L U Rw2

*2x2x2 Blindfolded*
*1. *U' R' F2 D' F' D2 F2 D' F' R F2 D B2 R' B2 L2 U2 R2 B D2 F R B L2 D'
*2. *F' L U' B U' F2 U2 B' D F' L2 U' F2 L B U L' U B D R' U F2 U F2
*3. *D F D F' U2 L' U B R2 B2 U F D' B2 L' D2 R2 D2 B D' B2 L' U2 F' L

*3x3x3 Blindfolded*
*1. *B2 L2 B2 R2 D R2 U' L2 D2 L2 R' U' L' D' F2 L2 F' D B R2 F' (21f)
*2. *B2 L2 R' F2 D2 L' D2 L U L' F D2 R' U' L' B' U2 L2 F' (19f)
*3. *B2 R' U2 B2 U2 L' B2 L2 B2 R B2 D R' U B' F' D L' R2 F' R (21f)

*4x4x4 Blindfolded*
*1. *Fw' D2 Uw' Rw2 Uw' Fw2 F L' Rw2 Fw R B2 Fw2 F' Rw R' F D' Uw F D' Rw' B Fw2 F' U Fw D2 B L D Uw' U Rw2 R' F2 Uw' B Uw F
*2. *L' D' L' Fw R Uw2 L2 Rw2 B L' Rw' R B' L Rw2 R D2 Uw' L2 Rw Fw' R D U' Rw2 R' Uw B Fw2 Uw2 L2 F R B' L2 Uw' R2 B R2 Fw2
*3. *B Fw Rw2 B2 L2 D' Uw2 B' D2 Rw2 B2 F2 D' Uw F D' Rw' R Uw R2 D2 B D' Uw' U Rw' D2 R2 B2 F2 U Rw' B2 L2 Fw' F D2 B Fw' F2

*5x5x5 Blindfolded*
*1. *B' Bw2 Uw' F Lw2 Rw' U2 B' Bw' L' F D2 Dw' Uw2 F Lw Rw2 R' Dw Uw' Lw2 Rw2 R' B L' F L D' L2 D2 U R2 Fw F2 D2 B Lw2 Rw2 Bw' R2 Fw2 F' Dw F' Lw' U L' Rw2 F' Dw' L2 R2 D' Rw Fw R' Uw Bw' Lw' Rw2
*2. *Lw2 D B' F' L' Lw Rw2 R Fw' L2 R' B2 Bw Fw2 F' Rw U L' R' Bw Dw' U Lw Fw Lw R Bw2 Dw' U' L Bw D Rw' Dw Lw' Fw' Dw Fw' F U' L2 D2 U2 R' F' Uw' U2 L2 Bw2 D' Uw F' L Lw U2 R' Fw' D Uw' L2
*3. *F' U Rw Bw2 Uw2 B Lw2 U Rw' Fw' Lw B Bw2 Fw2 F' Rw Bw' F2 D2 B F2 Lw2 Rw' R' B Bw' Lw2 D' Dw2 Bw L2 U Bw' F D B2 Bw2 L' Rw Bw Lw' Rw' U' R2 Bw Fw2 R D Dw' Uw' U' Lw2 F' D Dw' Uw L' Lw2 Rw2 R

*3x3x3 Multiple Blindfolded*
*1. *U2 L2 B2 F2 U F2 D' B2 L2 U' B2 L2 U L' U' R2 F' L R' U' F (21f)
*2. *R U2 B2 R B2 L' F2 D2 B2 R F' R2 U R' U L2 U F' R B R' (21f)
*3. *F2 L2 D2 B2 D2 L' B2 D2 R' B2 L F' D B2 L' B' U2 B2 F' L' (20f)
*4. *R2 F U2 B' F' R2 F' L2 U2 F2 R' F' U R' D' B2 R D2 B R' F2 (21f)
*5. *B2 R' F2 D2 L2 B2 D2 F2 D2 L' R D' F2 R' U2 F' L D2 L R' U2 (21f)
*6. *D2 L2 U L2 B2 F2 U F2 D2 R2 U' L2 U2 R D' F2 U' F' R' B D' (21f)
*7. *L2 D2 L2 U2 B L2 B2 F2 U2 B R D' U2 F L2 U2 B' D F R' D (21f)
*8. *F2 U2 F2 D2 L U2 R D2 U2 L B F L U' F L2 U' B L2 D' L2 (21f)
*9. *R2 F2 U B2 D R2 D' U2 L2 B2 U R' D' L' B' U' R U' L2 D2 U2 (21f)
*10. *R2 F' D2 B' L2 D2 F' L2 F' R2 B2 L' B U L2 U' F R F' U B2 (21f)
*11. *D2 F2 U R2 U2 L2 F2 D R2 F2 D2 L D' L' B U2 L R' B D2 R2 (21f)
*12. *U2 R2 B' D2 B' L2 B F' R2 D L' R2 U2 B' R2 D L2 F2 L' D F (21f)
*13. *R2 D2 B2 U' B2 D R2 F2 D R2 B F' U R2 D' L' D B2 U2 B R (21f)
*14. *R2 D2 F2 U2 R F2 R' B2 R2 D F R B' L D' B U' L' U' L2 (20f)
*15. *L2 B2 L2 D2 U2 B' L2 R2 U2 L2 F D' U2 F2 R' U' F D2 U' B R (21f)
*16. *D' B2 U' L2 U B2 U' L2 R2 B2 D' F D' B' D' L' B2 F D2 F D' (21f)
*17. *R2 B2 U2 R D2 L2 B2 R' U L2 B' L2 F2 U R2 F' R' F R (19f)
*18. *L' D2 F2 R' F2 R U2 F2 R' B2 D2 R2 D F' D2 F U' L' B' R' U' (21f)
*19. *R2 U' B2 R2 D' R2 D' U' B2 U R' D' U' B' F2 R' B' R' D2 U' F (21f)
*20. *U' F2 D2 B2 L2 D' L2 U B2 F2 R2 D2 B' D' F U' R D B R' U (21f)
*21. *F2 D' L2 D2 L2 R2 D' R2 U L2 U' B D2 U' R' F' R' B' D F (20f)
*22. *L F2 D2 R F2 L2 D2 L D2 F2 D2 B' F2 D2 F' R U B' L U R' (21f)
*23. *U2 R' D2 L B2 L F2 L' F2 D2 L' D L B2 U' R' B L' R D' F (21f)
*24. *F2 L F2 U2 R' U2 B2 R' D2 U2 R' F R D F2 L R B L' U' L (21f)
*25. *B2 L' D2 F2 D2 U2 R' U2 R U2 R2 F' D U F L2 R' U' B L2 R' (21f)
*26. *L2 D L2 D' R2 D B2 U B2 R2 U2 F2 L' U' R' U2 B D2 F' U L (21f)
*27. *D' F2 U2 B2 D2 R2 F2 U' R2 F' U' R B2 D' B U' F' D2 L U' (20f)
*28. *U2 L' D2 R2 B2 L' B2 F2 R B2 D' R' U B L' B2 R2 U F2 R' F2 (21f)
*29. *D' L2 B2 F2 D F2 D F2 R2 B2 R D2 F L B U2 L' F' U L (20f)
*30. *B2 F2 R' D2 R D2 R' U2 B2 D2 F' U L2 D' R' U2 L F2 R2 U F' (21f)
*31. *F2 D B2 D2 L2 U B2 R2 B2 L2 R2 U L' B F2 L' U2 B' D2 U' L2 (21f)
*32. *D2 F2 U F2 U R2 F2 D L2 U' B2 U L B L2 D R2 B2 U L2 F (21f)
*33. *B D2 L2 R2 B L2 B' F' U2 F' L D' R D U' F U2 B2 L' U' F' (21f)
*34. *U L2 U B2 U2 L2 D' R2 U2 B2 L' B L B' R' B2 D F2 U B' R' (21f)
*35. *L2 U2 R B2 L D2 R' D2 R2 D2 B' U2 L2 R U' L' F2 D (18f)
*36. *L2 B L2 U2 L2 D2 U2 B2 L D R F' L2 B2 U2 B2 U L B2 (19f)
*37. *D' B2 U' L2 D2 R2 U R2 U' L2 U' B2 L D2 R' F R' B' D2 B R' (21f)
*38. *R2 F2 R2 F2 R D2 U2 R2 B2 U' F' R2 B2 U L R2 U L F' R' F2 (21f)
*39. *B2 U' F2 D2 L2 F2 U R2 U R2 B2 R2 F' D2 U' L F' D2 L' F U' (21f)
*40. *L' D2 R2 D2 L' F2 L' F2 L' U2 R' F' R D' R' B R U B' L2 D (21f)
*41. *D2 B' D2 B U2 B2 D2 L2 B L2 U2 L2 D B U' R2 D U R' F' R (21f)
*42. *L' D2 B2 U2 R U2 L D2 B2 R' D B' D2 B' F R2 D' U2 L' B' (20f)
*43. *D' F2 D' L2 F2 U2 L2 U' L2 D' B L2 B2 L' U F L2 R2 F D' U2 (21f)
*44. *F2 U2 B2 D U' B2 D R2 U2 B R2 F L' R' U' R2 B D L2 U2 R' (21f)
*45. *D2 L F2 R' D2 U2 R B2 F2 U2 R2 U R B F L' D' R2 D' R2 F' (21f)
*46. *B L2 D2 U2 F2 L2 R2 F' U2 R2 B2 R' B R' B2 L' U' F R' B L' (21f)
*47. *B2 D2 L2 B' U2 F2 R2 D2 F D L2 F' L2 F' U R U L B F' (20f)
*48. *U R2 U2 L2 U' B2 U F2 R2 B2 L' D' L R' D' B' D' U2 F' (19f)
*49. *R U2 R F2 U2 B2 R2 F2 R D2 R' U2 R B' U' L2 B2 F R2 U' B (21f)
*50. *L2 U' R2 F2 R2 U' L2 D U2 L2 U2 B L' B2 U' L' R U R B' L' (21f)

*3x3x3 One Handed*
*1. *F2 U B2 F2 R2 D' R2 D' F2 U L' B' L2 F' R D F2 L R2 B2 U' (21f)
*2. *U' B2 U' F2 R2 B2 U2 F2 U R2 B2 U' R' U' B L B' F' L' D' L (21f)
*3. *B2 L2 D2 R' B2 R' D2 L U2 B2 R2 D R D' F R' D B' R' F D (21f)
*4. *D2 L2 U2 L B2 L F2 L' U2 R F2 L' U B F' D' U2 R2 U' L' R' (21f)
*5. *R' U2 L' D2 B2 L2 F2 L D2 R' D' F' L U' R' F R' D R2 B (20f)

*3x3x3 With Feet*
*1. *D' L2 D' R2 B2 D2 L2 F2 U R' F D' R2 B2 L B' D' L D (19f)
*2. *B2 F' L2 F' R2 U2 B2 D2 U2 R2 B R2 F2 L U L D' B' F2 L' B (21f)
*3. *U2 R' D2 F2 U2 L2 R' U2 R2 D2 F2 D' L2 F' R F2 L F L R2 (20f)
*4. *D2 B2 U2 L2 R' U2 L' B2 R2 B L2 D B' D2 B' L U2 F2 R2 U (20f)
*5. *F2 L B2 L2 D2 R D2 R D2 B2 U2 B2 L B' D B2 R B' F' L' (20f)

*3x3x3 Match the scramble*
*1. *R' D2 L2 U2 L B2 L2 R D2 B U R' F U2 L' R F D2 B2 D2 (20f)
*2. *D2 F D2 F' U2 R2 B' D2 L2 B2 R' U' R F2 R B D2 F' U' L' R2 (21f)
*3. *B2 L2 F2 L2 U L2 U B2 L2 U R2 U' L U' F D2 L' U2 R2 U' R' (21f)
*4. *F2 L2 B2 F L2 B' D2 R2 D2 F U B U L B' F2 U F L' D' U2 (21f)
*5. *D2 B2 R2 U2 F2 U2 R' F2 R B2 F D2 B D2 L' D2 U2 L' U F' D (21f)

*3x3x3 Fewest Moves*
*1. *F2 U2 L2 R2 F2 D F2 U' F2 L2 D' F U L' U2 R B L R2 U L2 (21f)

*2x2x2+3x3x3+4x4x4 Relay*
*1. *R U2 F2 D L' U' L D R2 B2 U' L D2 R2 F' U' B2 U' F2 L' B2 D B2 U2 B2
*1. *L2 R' B2 R B2 D2 F2 R' B2 R' B2 U R F L' U2 F2 R' B2 D U' (21f)
*1. *B L2 B2 Uw2 L Rw2 R F2 D F D2 Uw F2 D' F L2 Fw D B F' Rw2 B2 R' Uw2 U2 R' F2 U2 R Fw' F' Uw L' Uw2 Rw R' D U' L B

*2x2x2+3x3x3+4x4x4+5x5x5 Relay*
*1. *B2 U2 L2 F2 L' B' L2 D' F2 U B' L' D' B2 R' F2 R B' R2 D' R B' D B L'
*1. *B' D2 F' R2 F' L2 B R2 U2 L2 D' R' U F' D B R' B2 F L2 (20f)
*1. *B' Rw B2 L' F2 Rw' Fw' F' D Uw R D2 B L F L F' Uw U Fw2 D2 Fw F L2 Rw' D' Uw2 U' L2 R D' F2 D L2 Rw2 U L' B2 L' R'
*1. *L Lw2 Fw2 Lw' B' Rw2 Uw2 R B2 Rw2 D' Dw2 L Lw Rw' R' Dw Lw Dw' F2 L' B' R Dw' Rw2 R' B Fw F' L' B2 U F Uw L Dw' R2 D L2 R F2 L' U R Uw2 U' R2 Bw' Fw F2 Dw Uw U2 Bw2 Fw Dw2 Bw Fw2 Rw2 Dw2

*Magic* (Just do 5 solves)
*1. *
*2. *
*3. *
*4. *
*5. *

*Master Magic* (Just do 5 solves)
*1. *
*2. *
*3. *
*4. *
*5. *

*Clock*
*1. *UUdd u=4,d=6 / dUdU u=-4,d=-1 / ddUU u=-2,d=-3 / UdUd u=2,d=-1 / dUUU u=6 / UdUU u=4 / UUUd u=5 / UUdU u=-2 / UUUU u=-1 / dddd d=1 / UddU
*2. *UUdd u=3,d=6 / dUdU u=-3,d=3 / ddUU u=2,d=3 / UdUd u=-5,d=-5 / dUUU u=6 / UdUU u=1 / UUUd u=5 / UUdU u=1 / UUUU u=5 / dddd d=1 / dUUd
*3. *UUdd u=0,d=-2 / dUdU u=1,d=-3 / ddUU u=4,d=0 / UdUd u=-5,d=5 / dUUU u=-2 / UdUU u=5 / UUUd u=6 / UUdU u=-1 / UUUU u=0 / dddd d=3 / dUdU
*4. *UUdd u=6,d=3 / dUdU u=3,d=-1 / ddUU u=2,d=-3 / UdUd u=2,d=6 / dUUU u=1 / UdUU u=-3 / UUUd u=5 / UUdU u=5 / UUUU u=-4 / dddd d=-2 / dUUU
*5. *UUdd u=1,d=-2 / dUdU u=-4,d=-5 / ddUU u=3,d=-1 / UdUd u=5,d=0 / dUUU u=2 / UdUU u=-1 / UUUd u=0 / UUdU u=5 / UUUU u=-4 / dddd d=6 / dUUU

*MegaMinx*
*1. *R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ U
R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R++ D++ U
R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ U
*2. *R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- U'
R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- U'
R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- U'
R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- U'
R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D-- U'
R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ U
*3. *R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- U'
R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- U'
R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- U'
R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ U
*4. *R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- U'
R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D-- U'
R-- D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ U
R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- U'
R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- U'
R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ U
*5. *R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- U'
R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- U'
R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ U
R++ D++ R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- U'
R++ D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ U
R++ D-- R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ R++ D++ U

*Pyraminx*
*1. *l r' u U' L B U' B' R L' B L B R' L' U' R U' B R' B L' U' B R' 
*2. *l b' u' R' U' B L' B L' U R B' L B U L B L' U L' U B R B' U 
*3. *b B L' R' U R' L' R' L' U' R U' B' U L' U' L' U R' L' B R' B' U L' 
*4. *r b u' L' U' L U L' B' U' L' B' U' L' U B U' B' L' U' L R' L' B' U 
*5. *r' U' L' R B L' R' U' B' U' R B' L' B' U R' L R B' U R L' U L B 

*Square-1*
*1. *(0,6) (0,-3) (-2,3) (0,2) (0,3) (3,3) (0,5) (6,4) (-3,3) (-3,3) (0,4) (0,5) (3,0) (0,3) (3,4) (5,4) (4,0)
*2. *(3,2) (-3,-2) (3,3) (0,2) (-5,1) (-1,0) (-2,1) (-2,4) (6,2) (4,4) (-4,2) (-4,4) (4,2) (2,0) (-4,0)
*3. *(0,2) (0,-3) (1,1) (-1,0) (0,3) (0,2) (6,1) (0,1) (0,2) (6,0) (0,3) (6,3) (-3,3) (-3,3) (-3,0) (-2,0) (0,3) (6,0)
*4. *(-5,0) (0,-1) (3,0) (2,0) (0,3) (0,1) (2,3) (0,2) (-2,1) (-2,5) (6,0) (4,0) (2,4) (0,2) (4,2) (0,4) (4,4)
*5. *(0,-3) (3,0) (6,3) (6,0) (6,0) (-5,0) (-1,5) (-3,1) (1,0) (-3,5) (1,3) (0,2) (-4,4) (0,2) (-2,0) (2,0) (0,4)


----------



## AvGalen (Jun 18, 2008)

*Fewest Moves Analysis*

Reserved for Fewest Moves Analysis


----------



## Faz (Jun 18, 2008)

3x3x3 speed

Average: 21.40
Times:
21.11 
(19.14) 
(24.13) 
22.55 
20.55


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## icke (Jun 18, 2008)

2x2: 13,27 16,95 18,27 10,76 23,88 ==> 16,16 OK 
3x3: 30,65 26,45 34,24 23,81 24,19 ==> 27,10 OK 
4x4: 2:33,10 1:49,70 2:39,54 2:22,75 DNF ==> 2:31,80 
The DNF was because of a missed PLL parity otherwise the avg would be 2:25,27
2-4 Relay: 2:40,41 very good for me 
2-5 Relay: 9:51,88 first time that i did that again and also the first time under 10 min


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## rafal (Jun 18, 2008)

*5x5x5 BLD*: DNF 13:25 DNF = 13:25

First solve was 11:30 off by 2 centers and 3 wings. 2 centers off is a standard for me; 3 wings, because I did one cycle in wrong direction. Second solve could have been faster, because I messed up the memorization of wings and I had to rememorize most of them. Third solve was a mess.

*MultiBLD*: 13/13 in 1:11:34

Yes, I got them all! The time was far from perfect, but I had to be sure. There could be no mistakes this time.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 18, 2008)

rafal said:


> *5x5x5 BLD*: DNF 13:25 DNF = 13:25
> 
> First solve was 11:30 off by 2 centers and 3 wings. 2 centers off is a standard for me; 3 wings, because I did one cycle in wrong direction. Second solve could have been faster, because I messed up the memorization of wings and I had to rememorize most of them. Third solve was a mess.
> 
> ...



Incredible, Rafal. If anyone can beat Tim's record in similar time, you certainly can.

Tim's time per cube in his 24/24 competition solve: 5:40
Rafal's time per cube on this 13/13 solve: 5:30

It can be done.

And very nice 5x5x5 solves too - what's your best ever at home? Have you ever managed a sub-10?


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## Raffael (Jun 18, 2008)

2x2x2: (14.72) , 15.16 , 17.69 , (31.84) , 16.22 *16.36*
New Pb AVG
3x3x3: (41.73) , (23.61) , 25.09 , 30.05 , 35.78 *=30.31*
4x4x4: 2:19.26 , (3:12.25) , (1:58.97) , 2:20.86 , 2:18.70 *=2:19.61*

3x3x3 bld: 7:14.39 , DNF (6:59.22) , DNF (5:43.88) *7:14.39*
1st DNF was off by two edges, 2nd was off by two corners 

3x3x3 OH (1:24.94) , 1:51.25 , 1:49.02 , 1:40.11 , (2:40.33) *=1:46.79*

3x3x3 multibld: 1/2 in 20:17.64
second cube was only off by two misoriented edges.
This was my first attempt ever at multi. Memo time was approx. 14 mins.
I really need a memo system.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Jun 18, 2008)

3x3x3OH: 35.98, 38.23, 29.20, 35.26, 34.43 = Something horribly sucky i can imagine....
2x2x2BLD: 23.55, 23.53, DNF= 23.53 -------- Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! lol
3x3x3BLD: DNF, DNF, 1:31.46= 1:31.46 ---- Ummmmm.... I thought M2 was supposed to be good??!?!!??!?!!? grr


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## rafal (Jun 19, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> Incredible, Rafal. If anyone can beat Tim's record in similar time, you certainly can.
> 
> Tim's time per cube in his 24/24 competition solve: 5:40
> Rafal's time per cube on this 13/13 solve: 5:30
> ...



Thanks Mike! But, like Derrick said, I'm not even close to Tim. With my memorization method (corners visually), adding more cubes significantly increases the amount of time per one cube. So if I was to solve 24 cubes, I'm not sure if I would meet the time limit (10min per cube).

As for 5x5, I'm far away from sub-10. My best is 11:41


----------



## Mike Hughey (Jun 19, 2008)

rafal said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > Incredible, Rafal. If anyone can beat Tim's record in similar time, you certainly can.
> ...



Wow - you're able to do 13 cubes with visual corners!?!?! That's just astonishing! Yeah, you need another method to handle the corners. And I guess that means you'll probably lose a little speed if you switch to something non-visual, since visual is usually faster. But I still think it's amazing you've only done a few tries above 10 cubes and are already this fast - Tim was doing a lot of practicing when he got so fast.


----------



## Derrick Eide17 (Jun 19, 2008)

rafal said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > Incredible, Rafal. If anyone can beat Tim's record in similar time, you certainly can.
> ...



Well i didn't really mean it as FAR away from Tim. just not quite there yet. thats still really awesome seriously. and Your 5x5x5 BLD times are amazing.


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## ExoCorsair (Jun 19, 2008)

3x3x3_bf: DNF DNF DNF

Guess who's trying speed BLD.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 19, 2008)

ExoCorsair said:


> 3x3x3_bf: DNF DNF DNF
> 
> Guess who's trying speed BLD.



Cool! How long were the attempts, and did any of them look close to solved when you were done?


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## joey (Jun 19, 2008)

*3x3 BLD* 1:33.05 DNF DNF
Distracting dad on the first solve 
2nd was 34.39 DNF, cross + 1 F2L, but one cross piece was flipped. How can I leave Exo alone? 
3rd, cross + 1 F2L, but the edge of the CE was flipped.

*3x3 multi* 0/3 9:16.82
2 flipped corners. Parity. 3-cycle edges + Parity.

*3x3:* 15.71 12.77 (12.69) (19.13) 14.86
Pretty good.


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## fanwuq (Jun 19, 2008)

rafal said:


> With my memorization method (corners visually), adding more cubes significantly increases the amount of time per one cube. So if I was to solve 24 cubes, I'm not sure if I would meet the time limit (10min per cube).



WOW!!!!
13 cubes with corners all visual?!?!?!?! What do you use for edges? I don't think I can do more than 3 sets of corners pure visual!


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## MistArts (Jun 19, 2008)

*FMC*

Scramble: F2 U2 L2 R2 F2 D F2 U' F2 L2 D' F U L' U2 R B L R2 U L2

Solve: D' R F' R' L' D2 F B2 U B' L U' B' U' L2 B' L' B L2 F' L' F L' F' L F L2 F' L2 F B U B' U' F' U B U' B' F(40)

2x2x2 Block:.........................D' R F' R' L' D2 F................................(7)
2x2x2 Block on other side:.......B2 U B' L U' B' U'..............................(14)
3rd Slot:..............................L2 B' L' B........................................(18)
Leaving 3 corners:.................L2 F' L' F L' F' L F L2 F' L2 F...............(30)
The 3 corners:......................F B U B' U' F' U B U' B' F....................(40)

Explaination: Bad start. Ended up buildng another 2x2x2 block for some reason. Easy 3rd slot. The end was too many L's and F's so I accidently ran into an easier solution. Didn't have time to insert the corners because spent too much time on a solve that went wrong.


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## ExoCorsair (Jun 19, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> ExoCorsair said:
> 
> 
> > 3x3x3_bf: DNF DNF DNF
> ...



First one had up to one F2L pair solved, the other two had two F2L pairs solved. I really hate memo so I only spent around 20-30 seconds on memo for each solve... So these were around 1-minute attempts.


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## AvGalen (Jun 20, 2008)

ExoCorsair said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > ExoCorsair said:
> ...


Sounds to me like you are trying to see a double X-Cross (impressive if you can in 15 seconds!) and just get a basic idea of the rest of the solve. I think chances of you getting a solved cube correct with this method this year are < 1%, but if you keep practising it you might become the worlds "most-profitable-from-inspection"


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## rafal (Jun 20, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> WOW!!!!
> 13 cubes with corners all visual?!?!?!?! What do you use for edges? I don't think I can do more than 3 sets of corners pure visual!



Thanks and yeah, memorizing that way can be hard. Over 20 cubes with visual corners would be painful. Therefore, as Mike suggested, I will change my method – I will experiment with numbers. For edges I use letters and make up words on the spot. This isn’t probably the most effective way for multi either 



Derrick Eide17 said:


> Well i didn't really mean it as FAR away from Tim. just not quite there yet. thats still really awesome seriously. and Your 5x5x5 BLD times are amazing.



Thanks Derrick, but the fact is that I AM far away from Tim


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 20, 2008)

rafal said:


> Thanks and yeah, memorizing that way can be hard. Over 20 cubes with visual corners would be painful. Therefore, as Mike suggested, I will change my method – I will experiment with numbers. For edges I use letters and make up words on the spot. This isn’t probably the most effective way for multi either


For multi, I use letters and my image list for the corners just the same as I do with edges. It works just fine; you might want to try it. I would think the numbers might still get tough if you add too many cubes. The letter pair images feel limitless; there's basically no difference between memorizing 10 cubes and memorizing 100 cubes.

But that being said, if you could come up with really solid images to go with the numbers, that would work too. I use hexadecimal numbers for corner orientation, and I'm able to make up images on the fly that work pretty well. It's usually possible to make up an image to go with most any number sequence; it just might take a bit too long.


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## Alex DiTuro (Jun 20, 2008)

2x2x2 BLD:

1. 1:13.03
2. 1:22.99
3. 1:16.45

Yay!!! This is awesome!!! *I got all three without a DNF*! I'm on my way to consistently solving 3x3x3 BLD!(I've only done it once...)


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## ExoCorsair (Jun 20, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> ExoCorsair said:
> 
> 
> > First one had up to one F2L pair solved, the other two had two F2L pairs solved. I really hate memo so I only spent around 20-30 seconds on memo for each solve... So these were around 1-minute attempts.
> ...



I'm just doing (attempting) Fridrich solves, actually. I'm not good at finding blocks, and I definitely have much more difficulty solving them BLD.

I really don't like memorization; I don't have the patience for it, so I'm trying to memorize as much of the cube as I can before I get bored.


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## cmhardw (Jun 20, 2008)

Chris Hardwick
--------------
3x3x3: 15.23 (16.05) 14.63 15.38 (13.62) = 15.08
2x2x2_bld: 25.37 20.68 DNF
3x3x3_bld: DNF DNF 1:52.64
4x4x4_bld: DNF 9:02.30 6:16.88
5x5x5_bld: DNF DNF 16:07.25
comment: Rafal you're too fast ;-)


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## vlarsen (Jun 21, 2008)

Victor Larsen

*3x3x3*: 1:03.55 38.22 35.90 31.36 43.50 = *39.21*
*4x4x4*: 2:19.37 2:39.11 2:13.41 2:04.60 2:29.28 = *2:20.69*

It's been quite a while since I've submitted times, but my 4x4x4 didn't seem to lose much time.


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## *LukeMayn* (Jun 21, 2008)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I did an avg. for like everything but then my computer froze and now I wasted like 1 hour.......
all I have is my OH thing 
3x3x3 OH:
1:35.31
1:24.65
1:21.20
1:20.89
1:08.25
avg. 1:22.25


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## fanwuq (Jun 21, 2008)

Fanwuq
3x3 speed

1. 21.95 

2. 27.57 

3. 27.07 
4. 26.72 
5. 21.09

AVerage: 25.25
Haven't done this in about over 2 weeks. 2 decent solves, 3 bad solves. it's ok.

2x2 BLD
using old pochmann. Done on 3x3 corners
46.38 
36.68 
38.43 (DNF)
All the scrambles were so easy! especially the 2nd and 3rd. I was really tempted to bo 3 cycle again. But I discovered that I forgot how to set up permute with it. I messed up on the CO and forgot to swap 2 corners on the last solve. Both 2nd and 3rd solves, the memo was only about 10 seconds.


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## MistArts (Jun 21, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> Fanwuq
> 3x3 speed
> 
> 1. 21.95
> ...




How do you get 2x2 BLD sub-1? Keep working on 2x2 BLD.... let me take NR for FMC...hehe


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## MTGjumper (Jun 21, 2008)

3x3x3 Speed
19.74 19.66 18.61 (21.81) (17.69) = 19.34

Heh, that's a good time for me, and four sub-20. I must have hit a good run of form; I've been cubing much of the day due to illness and terrible British weather.


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## joey (Jun 22, 2008)

Another Brit! Where are you located?


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jun 22, 2008)

MistArts said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > Fanwuq
> ...



Chinese NR? That's trivial.


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## MTGjumper (Jun 22, 2008)

joey said:


> Another Brit! Where are you located?



Nottingham.

Are you from Yorkshire, or thereabouts? My grandparents (from Yorkshire) said they saw "some Rubik's kid" on the local news, who set a new record "in something".


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## joey (Jun 22, 2008)

Yes, that was me  I'm in Leeds.

Did you compete in UK open 2007?


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## FredM (Jun 22, 2008)

Frédéric Meinnel

Fewest Moves.

I used Petrus method with pseudo block for 223 and Insertion.

Block 222 : LD2B'U'R'
Block 223 : D'FLFD2
Orient edges : z RU2R'FL'UL
F2L : y' . URU'RU2R2URU'R'U'R
LL Skip : U
Undo premove : F'

Insert at . : RU2R2U2R2U2R

This is 38 HTM , I believe.

I am really tired, and I don't know why I did the Fewest moves being this tired, so the solution can be really shortened. I used the first block I saw, didn't look for another... etc...


Speedcubing to come.


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## MistArts (Jun 22, 2008)

FredM said:


> Frédéric Meinnel
> 
> Fewest Moves.
> 
> ...



Do you look for a way to get a LL skip or something?



Swordsman Kirby said:


> MistArts said:
> 
> 
> > fanwuq said:
> ...



Really? I actually beat Fanwuq in FMC in DC Open but I DNFed because I wrote y instead of y'.


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## masterofthebass (Jun 22, 2008)

He's saying that almost all Chinese NRs are trivial. he lives in china, and competes for america. He wins every event easily except for BLD because of Danyang.


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## Jai (Jun 22, 2008)

*2x2:* 03.90, 04.74, 04.47, 05.93, 04.59 = *04.60*
Comment: Did okay...

*3x3:* 13.09, 13.67, 14.41, 15.41, 13.69 = *13.92*
Comment: Good, but could've done better.

*3x3 OH:* 35.13, 38.59, 35.02, 34.98, 32.73 = *35.04*
Comment: Decent average. I really need to improve on my OH.

*Magic:* 1.45, 1.62, 1.46, 1.55, 1.49 = *1.50*
Comment: MAN, I haven't practised Magic in ages.

*Pyraminx:* 10.40, 8.51, 6.48, 10.05, 4.23 = *8.34*
Comment: That last scramble was RIDICULOUS.


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## FredM (Jun 22, 2008)

For MistArts, I only got OLL Skip in fact. And PLL was a Z Perm.

But, the insertion I made solves the Z perm.

So, I guess your question turns into how do I skip OLL, I just have a lot of way to have influence on my OLL , all this because I don't know all my OLL's, only with oriented cross, but I edge control very easily and I sometimes corner control too. So, OLL Skip comes from my speedcubing technic.


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## MistArts (Jun 22, 2008)

FredM said:


> For MistArts, I only got OLL Skip in fact. And PLL was a Z Perm.
> 
> But, the insertion I made solves the Z perm.
> 
> So, I guess your question turns into how do I skip OLL, I just have a lot of way to have influence on my OLL , all this because I don't know all my OLL's, only with oriented cross, but I edge control very easily and I sometimes corner control too. So, OLL Skip comes from my speedcubing technic.



But...how do you do that. Do you control the corners and edges orientation while solving?


----------



## FredM (Jun 22, 2008)

I had a step for orienting edges so if I only use R and U, the edges will stay oriented. So I just have to try orienting the corners, this is very difficult but possible, I just do it like I feel it in speedcubing, and in Fewest Moves, I just try a few things. Here a got a skip, but usually I try to get an OLL for which I know a lot of algs, for example a sune.

Other way to skip things, know a lot of way of inserting a pair in its slot, I know six way for doing that, two keeping edges oriented. So sometimes I don't orient the edges after 223, and I orient them while doing F2L.

Sometimes, insertions, like I did on Weekly 24, can skip your OLL, I skipped it because I three cycled three edges that wer wrong in my LL.


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## AvGalen (Jun 22, 2008)

*2x2x2*: = 16.58 10.30 6.93 6.84 8,75 = *8.66*
*3x3x3*: = 24.02 25.34 24.68 26.41 22.43 = *24.68*
*4x4x4*: = 1:26.63 (O) 1:21.56 (P) 1:24.94 1:29.96 1:25.68 = *1:25.75*
*5x5x5*: = 2:38.46 2:05.05 2:22.90 2:23.21 2:41.31 = *2:28.19*
*2x2x2_bf*: = DNF DNF DNF = *DNF*
*3x3x3_bf*: = DNF DNF DNF = *DNF*
*3x3x3_oh*: = 38.53 45.63 43.69 44.69 36.93 = *42.90*
*3x3x3_match*: = 1:50.93 1:28.88 1:37.56 2:09.78 1:41.77 = *1:43.42*
*3x3x3_fmc*: = *L D2 B' U' R' B' L B' D B2 D B2 D2 B2 L D2 B D' B' R' B L' D2 L B R' B L' R2 F2 D* = *31*
(Do pre-moves F2 D to see what's going on)
2x2x2 (the premoves make it a 2x2x3): L D2 B' U' R'
Tripple X-Cross + align 4th pair: B' L B' D B2 D B2 D2 B2
Finish F2L: L D L'
Inverse!!!! OLL: L D B D' B' L'
OLL (+PLL-skip): L R' B L' D2 L B R' B L' R2
Undo Premoves: F2 D
Comment: I think this was the first time ever that I "messed up" something that was already fixed. I was experimenting on the last layer and found this ending by accident. 
*234-Relay*: *1:59.55* (OP)
Comment: Both parities on 4x4x4 and still below 2 minutes!
*2345-Relay*: *4:35.33* (P)
*Magic*: = 2:34 1.81 4:06 1.72 2.72 = *2.29*
*Master Magic*: = 4.80 5.11 5.11 9.68 5.15 = *5.12*
*Clock*: = 25.90 19.97 23.86 25.86 21.86 = *23.86*
*MegaMinx*: = 4:05.25 3:31.11 3:19.08 2:49.33 3:18.58 = *3:22.92*
*PyraMinx*: = 14.34 25.00 8.16 18.47 11.38 = *14.73*
*Square-1*: = 1:44.75 (P) 1:12.44 1:01.72 1:32.96 (P) 55.19 = *1:15.71*

Glad to see you are enjoying FMC Frédéric. Your insertion last week was a nice start, but this weeks insertion was already much better! And maybe it would confuse people less if you wrote down your solution a bit differently. Now they seem to think that you have gotten 2 LL-skips in a row and might be cheating. Instead, writing it down like this might be better:
(Do premove F' to see what's going on)
2x2x2: Block 222 : LD2B'U'R'
(pseudeo) 2x2x3: D'FLFD2
Orient edges : z RU2R'FL'UL
F2L : y . URU2RU2R2URU'R'U'R
AUF : U
Undo premove : F'
This leaves a 4-cycle of edges that can be solved by inserting the following moves at the . : RU2R2U2R2U2R

Except for this, I have tried your solution and it doesn't seem to work. Maybe something is wrong with the cube rotations? Remember, xyz equals RUF.


----------



## Jude (Jun 22, 2008)

*Chukk*

*2x2x2:* 8.28, 10.70, (12.75), 12.70, (6.11) = *10.56* --> Nothing special

*3x3x3:* 28.16, (29.17), 27.17, 26.14 (23.67), = *27.24* --> Nothing special

*4x4x4:* 2:14.62, 2:17.03 (P), (2:04.83), (DNF), 2:17.36 = *2:16.23* --> New average 3/5 PB, only because of insanely lucky parities.. just 1 PLL parity in the entire thing, and 0 OLL! (DNF = Forgot to start timer)

*2x2x2-4x4x4:* *3:11.11 (O)* --> New PB

*3x3x3 OH:*(52.42), 1:01.36, 1:00.28, 1:02.69, (1:05.20) = *1:01.44* --> New PB avg 3/5 and single!

*2x2x2 BLD*: DNF  (1:43.58) DNS  = *1:43.58* --> Heh, terrible but oh well!

*3x3x3 BLD*: DNF DNF (7:59.25) = *7:59.25* --> Haha, both first 2 were 3-4 minutes, but I messed up so I went incredibly slowly on last one to make sure it was a solve!

*Multiple BLD: 1/2* --> I completed both but second one was finished after 20 minutes. 17 minute memo ( was watching the football and not concentrating... didn't realise there was a time limit until after I'd finished) but 2 minute execution for the first one, so that one counts. 2nd took 4 minute execution because I was being really careful 

EDIT: Added all BLD events


----------



## MTGjumper (Jun 22, 2008)

joey said:


> Yes, that was me  I'm in Leeds.
> 
> Did you compete in UK open 2007?



I've only really been cubing for the past 6 months, so I didn't go to the UK Open 2007. (Well, technically, I've been able to solve a cube for about a year, but my old cube was so old and difficult to turn that I had no motivation to try and improve my times. It was only when I got a new cube for Christmas that I tried to improve.)


----------



## MistArts (Jun 22, 2008)

FredM said:


> I had a step for orienting edges so if I only use R and U, the edges will stay oriented. So I just have to try orienting the corners, this is very difficult but possible, I just do it like I feel it in speedcubing, and in Fewest Moves, I just try a few things. Here a got a skip, but usually I try to get an OLL for which I know a lot of algs, for example a sune.
> 
> Other way to skip things, know a lot of way of inserting a pair in its slot, I know six way for doing that, two keeping edges oriented. So sometimes I don't orient the edges after 223, and I orient them while doing F2L.
> 
> Sometimes, insertions, like I did on Weekly 24, can skip your OLL, I skipped it because I three cycled three edges that wer wrong in my LL.



Thanks, I orient edges too. But after that, I try and leave 3 or 4 corners unsolved and everything else solved. Then solving them with a commutator. I still don't really get insertions and how they affect orientation. I also have trouble with solving 5 edges + 1/2 corners after orienting edges and solving F2L without 4th c/e pair. One more thing, is 40 moves good for a beginner?


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## AvGalen (Jun 23, 2008)

MistArts said:


> Thanks, I orient edges too. But after that, I try and leave 3 or 4 corners unsolved and everything else solved. Then solving them with a commutator. I still don't really get insertions and how they affect orientation.


4 unsolved corners is pretty difficult to do with a commutator. Most of the time you want to finish your last layer with a 3-edge-cycle or a 3-corner-cycle. Orientation of the last 3 pieces doesn't really matter much at this point. The insertion should ONLY affect those last 3 unsolved pieces and should solve both the permutation as the orientation of those pieces. For this to be much easier you are allowed to use stickers.
Small example of how to place stickers:
Scramble (White on U-face, Green on F-face): R U' L' U R' U' L U
Corner-3-cycle: Sticker A on *Up*-Right-Front, 2 on *Back*-Up-Left, 3 on *Back*-Right-Up or you could put Sticker A on Up-*Right*-Front, 2 on Back-*Up*-Left, 3 on Back-*Right*-Up or you could put Sticker A on Up-Right-*Front*, 2 on Back-Up-*Left*, 3 on Back-Right-*Up*. If you don't understand why you should put the stickers on the bolded places, just think of where each cubie needs to go.


MistArts said:


> I also have trouble with solving 5 edges + 1/2 corners after orienting edges and solving F2L without 4th c/e pair.


Examples please.


MistArts said:


> One more thing, is 40 moves good for a beginner?


Yes it is


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## fanwuq (Jun 23, 2008)

Most Chinese NR's really are easy to beat. That's why we need to replace them with better ones. Eventually, the Chinese NRs will be better than US NRs...


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## MistArts (Jun 23, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> MistArts said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, I orient edges too. But after that, I try and leave 3 or 4 corners unsolved and everything else solved. Then solving them with a commutator. I still don't really get insertions and how they affect orientation.
> ...



How do these stickers work? Like when you are going back, what do you look for these stickers be and what algorithm/commutator do you use?




AvGalen said:


> MistArts said:
> 
> 
> > I also have trouble with solving 5 edges + 1/2 corners after orienting edges and solving F2L without 4th c/e pair.
> ...



Just like in general, like what approaches do you take to leave 3 edges or corners.




AvGalen said:


> MistArts said:
> 
> 
> > One more thing, is 40 moves good for a beginner?
> ...



Good


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## AvGalen (Jun 23, 2008)

It is very difficult to explain how stickers work. For corners there is no easy answer, but mostly you look for an 8 move commutator (PQP'Q') where PQ is either 1+3 moves or 3+1 move. There is a lot of information about this in the blindfolding forum where people actually do this without stickers, in there head, in a couple of seconds. Personnaly I suck corner insertions and it takes me a long time (15 minutes or even longer) to find nice (cancelling) ones.
For edge-insertions you look for situations where the 3 edges are (almost) in the same slice or are in one of the "L-shaped-postions" so you can use the algorithms I provided last week. Another nice alg to know is (R2 U2)*3 to swap 2x2 edges. (Frédéric used that alg for his Z-perm insertion)

I don't have a general approach to leave just 3 edges or corners. I just try inserting the 4th F2L pair in different ways and/or use short OLL's like FRUR'U'F' , FURU'R'F' and R U R' U R U2 R' from different angles, mirrored and reversed and I try using double-layer-variations of those algs (fRUR'U'f'). A lot of this is trial and error, intuition, experience and luck (like my last layer this week). Also, having 3 bad pieces for the last layer is quite common


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## Erik (Jun 23, 2008)

2: 4.20, 4.30, 4.09, (3.27), (5.14)=>*4.20 *not bad for 3/5 solves with layer+CLL
3: 13.97, 13.27, (14.33), 11.16, (10.52)=>*12.8* first 3 solves were horrible
pyraminx: 6.72, (8.02), 4.31, 7.50, (3.45)=>*6.18* is it me or are these scrambles ridicilously easy?
s-1: 41.40, 41.42, (29.78), 38.72, (47.46)=>*40.51*
mag: 1.08, 1.11, (DNF), 1.06, (1.00)=>*1.08
*mmag: 2.90, (4.94), 2.78, 3.13, (2.69)=>*2.94 zomgz sub-3*


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## Henrik (Jun 23, 2008)

Henrik 
*4x4BLD:* 14:54.03
Yay its been a long time now, school have taken up a lot of time, but from today I can cube some more again. ( I graduate today )


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## Jai (Jun 23, 2008)

Erik said:


> pyraminx: 6.72, (8.02), 4.31, 7.50, (3.45)=>6.18 is it me or are these scrambles ridicilously easy?


No, I got a good average too. That last one is too easy. Like, 2 or 3 move FL, then 2-edge flip for LL.


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## MistArts (Jun 23, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> It is very difficult to explain how stickers work. For corners there is no easy answer, but mostly you look for an 8 move commutator (PQP'Q') where PQ is either 1+3 moves or 3+1 move. There is a lot of information about this in the blindfolding forum where people actually do this without stickers, in there head, in a couple of seconds. Personnaly I suck corner insertions and it takes me a long time (15 minutes or even longer) to find nice (cancelling) ones.
> For edge-insertions you look for situations where the 3 edges are (almost) in the same slice or are in one of the "L-shaped-postions" so you can use the algorithms I provided last week. Another nice alg to know is (R2 U2)*3 to swap 2x2 edges. (Frédéric used that alg for his Z-perm insertion)
> 
> I don't have a general approach to leave just 3 edges or corners. I just try inserting the 4th F2L pair in different ways and/or use short OLL's like FRUR'U'F' , FURU'R'F' and R U R' U R U2 R' from different angles, mirrored and reversed and I try using double-layer-variations of those algs (fRUR'U'f'). A lot of this is trial and error, intuition, experience and luck (like my last layer this week). Also, having 3 bad pieces for the last layer is quite common



Thank you for your help. I figured out how the stickers work now. So it looks like you don't orient edges before inserting your 4th pair. But should you? Or is it easier to orient while inserting 4th pair or after you insert.


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## AvGalen (Jun 23, 2008)

MistArts said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > It is very difficult to explain how stickers work. For corners there is no easy answer, but mostly you look for an 8 move commutator (PQP'Q') where PQ is either 1+3 moves or 3+1 move. There is a lot of information about this in the blindfolding forum where people actually do this without stickers, in there head, in a couple of seconds. Personnaly I suck corner insertions and it takes me a long time (15 minutes or even longer) to find nice (cancelling) ones.
> ...


Eventually edges need to be oriented before the cube can be solved (obviously). If you want to end with a 3-edge-cycle you should have at least 10 edges oriented. If you want to end with a 3-corner-cycle you should have all 12 edges oriented. It really doesn't matter when you orient the edges, but it is easiest the do it after the F2L (like speedsolving), but then you waste a lot of moves. If you do it earlier you will require less moves, but you will have to keep the already oriented edges oriented which is much harder.

For a good example of how/when to orient edges you can check my solution from 2008-22. It has a 19 move F2l with 0 oriented edges and a 20 move F2L (just some small modifications) with 4 oriented edges.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 23, 2008)

Mike Hughey:
*2x2x2:* 9.75, 10.31, 8.97, 10.22, 9.56 = *9.84*
*3x3x3:* 28.41, 27.68, 27.46 33.44, 29.19 = *28.43*
*4x4x4:* 1:43.46, 2:02.38 (O), 1:59.22, 1:43.58, 1:40.13 = *1:48.75*
*5x5x5:* 2:56.59, 3:08.65, 3:15.81, 3:04.03, 3:32.44 = *3:09.50*
Comment: Very disappointing.
*2x2x2 BLD:* 56.66, 49.91, 1:20.02 = *49.91*
*3x3x3 BLD:* DNF, 2:15.97, DNF = *2:15.97*
Comment: My accuracy on 3x3x3 BLD has been terrible lately.
*4x4x4 BLD:* 10:26.80 (5:24), DNF (10:49.94, 5:04), DNF (12:09.39, 5:40) = *10:26.80*
Comment: Second one off by 3 corners mispermuted; third one 5 moves from solved – I must have messed up undoing setup moves for parity fix.
*5x5x5 BLD:* DNF (20:49.44, 10:16), 26:18.43 (15:28), 23:44.67 (11:25) = *23:44.67*
Comment: First one was just off by 2 X centers. That was a really fast memo for me; I’m sad it wasn’t solved. I did the second one when I was too tired, so I was just really slow memorizing.
*3x3x3 multiBLD:* *12/13 = 11 points, 1:46:10.22* (1:03:15 memorization)
Comment: Had just 2 edges flipped on the sixth cube; the rest were all correct. I had to go slow (about 8:10 per cube) because the new cubes were really in bad shape – two were painful to turn, and the third felt like it was going to fall apart. I did 13 cubes because it seemed silly to just go to 11 if I wasn’t going to stick to my plan of waiting until I get them all to go up by one. I forgot that Rafal also did 13; oh well, I wouldn’t have been able to beat him even if I got them all, because of the time difference. It felt pretty good to do this well; lots better than I had been doing with 10 cubes.
*3x3x3 OH:* 1:02.34, 1:08.28, 1:00.41, 55.34, 1:00.72 = *1:01.16*
Comment: Awful!
*3x3x3 WF:* 2:25.96, 2:23.40, 2:55.63, 2:11.97, 3:37.68 = *2:35.00*
Comment: Messed up OLL on last one.
*3x3x3 Match the scramble:* 3:14.71, 2:12.65, 2:06.06, 2:02.94, 2:08.78 = *2:09.16*
Comment: On the first solve, a corner was twisted in the first layer and it took a while for me to find it.
*2-4 relay:* *2:33.43* (OP)
*2-5 relay:* *5:58.65* (OP)
Comment: Not BLD this week, I’m afraid.
*Magic:* 2.50, 2.08, 2.75, 2.33, 2.55 = *2.46*
*Master Magic:* 4.52, 5.18, 6.06, 5.00, 4.68 = *4.95*
*Clock:* Still don’t have one.
*MegaMinx:* 3:02.09, 3:19.08, 3:27.38, 3:04.55, 4.38.13 (POP) = *3:17.00*
*Pyraminx:* 39.02, 28.56, 31.78, 27.59, 13.84 = *29.31*
Comment: Truly awful this week. My white and yellow stickers look the same – a dirty gray – so it’s really hard sometimes.
*Square-1:* 1:44.47 (P), 1:18.86 (P), 55.19, 1:25.55, 1:55.46 (P) = *1:29.63*
*3x3x3 Fewest Moves:* *39 moves*
F2 U2 R F B2 R2 U R’ L D L’ D’ L D’ L’ D’ L U2 L’ D2 L U2 D’ L D U L2 U’ F L U L’ B U’ F’ U B’ U’ L2
2x cross: F2 U2 R F B2 R2 U R’ L D L’ D’
3rd pr. + fix edge orientation: L D’ L’ D . L D’ L D
F2L: U L2 U’
OLL: F L U L’ B U’ F’ U B’ U’
AUF: L2
insert at .: D2 L U2 L’ D2 L U2 L’
D D2 at start of insertion become D’; L’ L at end of insertion cancel.
Not good, but not terrible, I guess.


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## AvGalen (Jun 23, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> *3x3x3 Fewest Moves:* *39 moves*
> F2 U2 R F B2 R2 U R’ L D L’ D’ L D’ L’ D’ L U2 L’ D2 L U2 D’ L D U L2 U’ F L U L’ B U’ F’ U B’ U’ L2
> 2x cross: F2 U2 R F B2 R2 U R’ L D L’ D’
> 3rd pr. + fix edge orientation: L D’ L’ D . L D’ L D
> ...


That was an incredible beginning Mike. You had so many pairs after the first couple of moves that it was pretty hard for me to choose how to procede, but I tried anyway:

I used your X-Cross for the beginning: F2 U2 R F B2 R2 U R’ 
Then I turned it into a tripple X-Cross with: D' L2, B D B'
Finishing F2L + edges last layer: U L' U' L' U L U'
Leaving a 3-cycle of corners + 1 misoriented corner (BAD), but the regular continuation cancels soooo nicely:
OLL: F' D' B D F D' B' D
PLL: D' B D' F2 D B' D' F2 D2
Align last layer: L

With 2 3-cycles it might be even better


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 23, 2008)

Wow - nice triple X-cross. I will admit it didn't even occur to me to look for one.

Realistically, I took way too long finding this beginning; I had come up with absolutely nothing about a half hour through when I suddenly found this beginning. I guess I was grateful for what I did find; I needed to spend the rest of my time finishing it to keep up my habit of not DNFing.


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## rafal (Jun 23, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> For multi, I use letters and my image list for the corners just the same as I do with edges. It works just fine; you might want to try it. I would think the numbers might still get tough if you add too many cubes. The letter pair images feel limitless; there's basically no difference between memorizing 10 cubes and memorizing 100 cubes.
> 
> But that being said, if you could come up with really solid images to go with the numbers, that would work too. I use hexadecimal numbers for corner orientation, and I'm able to make up images on the fly that work pretty well. It's usually possible to make up an image to go with most any number sequence; it just might take a bit too long.



Well, maybe I will be forced to create the image list eventually.  It is interesting that there isn't much difference between 10 and 100 cubes. 
But I'd like to try numbers first. By numbers I mean mathematical equations and connections between numbers on different cubes. I tried this already on 5 cubes and it worked excellent - I memorized CP instantly. Now I just have to test this method on a large number of cubes. Unfortunately, I have been busy lately and haven't had time to practise.



Mike Hughey said:


> *3x3x3 multiBLD:* *12/13 = 11 points, 1:46:10.22* (1:03:15 memorization)
> Comment: Had just 2 edges flipped on the sixth cube; the rest were all correct. I had to go slow (about 8:10 per cube) because the new cubes were really in bad shape – two were painful to turn, and the third felt like it was going to fall apart. I did 13 cubes because it seemed silly to just go to 11 if I wasn’t going to stick to my plan of waiting until I get them all to go up by one. I forgot that Rafal also did 13; oh well, I wouldn’t have been able to beat him even if I got them all, because of the time difference. It felt pretty good to do this well; lots better than I had been doing with 10 cubes.



Nice result - that must have hurt though. I also don't take the approach of going up by one. If I can't do 11, I try 13. If I hadn't solved 13, I would have tried 15 next time. Now I can go for more as soon as I have more cubes.
So Mike, don't stick to 13, go for more!


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 23, 2008)

rafal said:


> Well, maybe I will be forced to create the image list eventually.  It is interesting that there isn't much difference between 10 and 100 cubes.
> But I'd like to try numbers first. By numbers I mean mathematical equations and connections between numbers on different cubes. I tried this already on 5 cubes and it worked excellent - I memorized CP instantly. Now I just have to test this method on a large number of cubes. Unfortunately, I have been busy lately and haven't had time to practise.


Well, that's actually what I meant by solid images for the numbers. It sounds like the numbers should work fine indefinitely, if you're doing them that way. The only negative is that you have to make it up as you go, so an image list is a little faster to put together, but it's basically only a speed difference, and at your speed I doubt it's a problem.



rafal said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > *3x3x3 multiBLD:* *12/13 = 11 points, 1:46:10.22* (1:03:15 memorization)
> ...



Yeah, it hurt. I couldn't believe I was that close. Now I have to get more cubes, though, if I want to take your approach.


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## MistArts (Jun 24, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> It is very difficult to explain how stickers work. For corners there is no easy answer, but mostly you look for an 8 move commutator (PQP'Q') where PQ is either 1+3 moves or 3+1 move. There is a lot of information about this in the blindfolding forum where people actually do this without stickers, in there head, in a couple of seconds. Personally I suck corner insertions and it takes me a long time (15 minutes or even longer) to find nice (cancelling) ones.
> For edge-insertions you look for situations where the 3 edges are (almost) in the same slice or are in one of the "L-shaped-positions" so you can use the algorithms I provided last week. Another nice alg to know is (R2 U2)*3 to swap 2x2 edges. (Frédéric used that alg for his Z-perm insertion)
> 
> I don't have a general approach to leave just 3 edges or corners. I just try inserting the 4th F2L pair in different ways and/or use short OLL's like FRUR'U'F' , FURU'R'F' and R U R' U R U2 R' from different angles, mirrored and reversed and I try using double-layer-variations of those algs (fRUR'U'f'). A lot of this is trial and error, intuition, experience and luck (like my last layer this week). Also, having 3 bad pieces for the last layer is quite common



I was trying to fo the short OLL thing but I tried too much and I couldn't do it so I found another way to flip edges and get out of 1 corner misoriented and 3 corners mispermuted.

Here's an example:

Scramble: R2 U' F2 R2 D2 L2 D' R2 F' L R2 B2 U R2 B' F D F R

Solve: F' U' R2 D L2 R2 U' B2 U' F' U B2 U' F U F' U F' R' F' R F2 R' F' R F' R' F D R D2 F D F2 R F R2 U2 (38)

2x2x2 Block: F' U' R2 D L2 (5)
Pseudo 2x2x3 Block: R2 U' * F' U (9)
Pseudo XXX-Cross: F' R' F' R F2 R' F' (16)
Solve some more: R F' R' F (20)
*Orient 2 edges and 1 corner: D R D2 F D F2 R F R2 (29)*
AUF: U2 (30)
Insertion at *: B2 U' F' U B2 U' F U (38)


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## FredM (Jun 24, 2008)

I fixed the problem with my solution, I put a 2 instead of ' . I put it in red.

Who thinks I'm cheating ? And why ? It's not like I give the results of 36 moves just like that, I gave my solution, what should I do ? I never got a LL Skip in speedcubing, can't I show off when I get them in FM ?


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 25, 2008)

FredM said:


> I fixed the problem with my solution, I put a 2 instead of ' . I put it in red.
> 
> Who thinks I'm cheating ? And why ? It's not like I give the results of 36 moves just like that, I gave my solution, what should I do ? I never got a LL Skip in speedcubing, can't I show off when I get them in FM ?



I think you misinterpreted what Arnaud was saying to you. I don't think anyone thinks you're cheating. He was just pointing out that those who aren't quite as good at fewest moves might have seen your explanation and thought you got really lucky or something, because you didn't fully explain the thought process that helped you come to the solution. We like to explain them out here (more explanation makes it easier for the less-experienced to understand the solution), and Arnaud was giving an example of how to do that for your solve.

And when I got an LL skip of sorts in a fewest moves solve (I've only ever done it once), I showed it off too. So of course I think you should as well.

I hope you understand, and I hope you will continue to compete; your participation is appreciated.


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## tsaoenator (Jun 25, 2008)

Andy Tsao

3x3x3: 12.22, 13.05, (12.16), 13.00, (13.19) = 12.76


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## joey (Jun 25, 2008)

If you can explain it or say that it was lucky, thats all good! They only way I'll get a good FMC is with a lucky LL skip


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## Pedro (Jun 25, 2008)

*3x3x3 multi bld* = 3/6, 29:22
Bleh...another bad one...tried to go surely this time, took longer to memorise
used a wrong piece in one of the cubes...the other 2...I'm confused...gonna check it


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## pjk (Jun 25, 2008)

Patrick Kelly
*3x3:* (29.99) 27.64 28.70 27.69 (21.80) = 28.01
Using Roux. Getting a little better. I am getting sub-25 more often. I know 3 of the COLL/CMLL cases now. Once I have all of those down, I should drop a good 3 seconds avg.

*5x5:* (2:40.05) 2:44.25 2:50.38 2:58.55 (3:13.28) = 2:51.06
Very bad. The last one I messed up.


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## Dene (Jun 25, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> And when I got *an LL* skip...



Completely off topic but... I never even thought of this before, but when you read do you think of this as "L-L" as opposed to "Last Layer"? I say this because of your use of "an" instead of "a". Might I point out that in formal writing, if you use an abbreviation you are meant to write as if you were writing it out in full  (Mr. Hughey may have learnt something new today!)

Sorry to be so late with my times this week, I have been busy with exams, and yesterday it was way too cold. I'm pumped up today though, so let's see how I go!

*3x3x3:* 19.14 24.16 16.55 19.64 21.44 => 20.07
Eww.

*3x3x3_OH:* DNF, 51.75 44.94 50.03 32.80 => 48.91
First one the timer didn't start... 3 Y perms, no joke (including the last one). I can't remember Lofty's Y perm at the moment >.<
Bad times but wow! This was done on my freshly cleaned and un-lubed cube, and it is soooo nice!!! Wow, it's amazing. I think I could sub1 H perm with this cube (if only my stackmat timer was working  ).

*3x3x3_feet:* 2:00.55 1:48.38 2:18.83 1:32.34 2:11.25 => 2:00.06
Did the wrong G on the third solve.

*4x4x4:* 1:46.88 1:48.75 1:43.13 1:47.72 1:40.08 => 1:45.91
Bad. OLL parity on everyone. PLL parity 3 time I think.

*5x5x5:* 3:37.97 3:08.41 4:16.28 3:29.80 3:27.09 => 3:31.62
Ugh.

Sorry Mr. van Galen, I know I'm gonna be late, but I don't have time to finish today, first thing tomorrow I promise!


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## AvGalen (Jun 25, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> FredM said:
> 
> 
> > I fixed the problem with my solution, I put a 2 instead of ' . I put it in red.
> ...


Thanks Mike. I wrote that part about the LL-skip because of what MistArts said: "Do you look for a way to get a LL skip or something?".
Nobody but me knew you on this forum and the first two FMC solutions you post have a LL-skip according to your explanation. To me it was obvious that those were not REAL LL skips, but just LL skips because of the insertions. Others might wonder if you are just extremely lucky, cheating, or invented a new method. To avoid that confusion I recommended the use of "leaving just a corner 3-cycle..." or "leaving just 4 unsolved edges..." followed by something like "...which I solved by inserting ABCDEFGH at the ."

On a final note: that correction you made to your FMC solution was needed, but it is still not correct. The problem is in your cube rotations (as I pointed out before: xyz equals RUF). Please fix your solution, otherwise it will be a DNF like it would be in an official WCA-competition



Dene said:


> Sorry Mr. van Galen, I know I'm gonna be late, but I don't have time to finish today, first thing tomorrow I promise!


I am the last one to judge anyone on being late. Don't worry


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## FredM (Jun 25, 2008)

Okay, sorry about that. You're right, I should explain more my solutions . I will !

I corrected another missing ' , it was y' instead of y. I hope it is know correct. (I guess I really was tired, I usually don't make mistakes in notations.)


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 25, 2008)

Dene said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > And when I got *an LL* skip...
> ...



Actually, I did - thanks, Dene! I have on a number of occasions when writing formally gotten to a situation like this and wondered what form the article was supposed to take. Usually I would just find an excuse to write it out in full, so there would be no problem. But when I haven't, I'm pretty sure I have always done the correct thing, although I wasn't sure it was the correct thing to do. So it's nice to know the rule.

But I believe in this particular situation, I did the correct thing. We are obviously not writing formally here; we're writing conversationally. That means we should use the same speech we would use in actual conversation. And I can assure you that, here in America at least, no one would say "a ell-ell skip" - everyone would say "an ell-ell skip". So I would argue it would have been wrong here for me to say "a LL skip", since it's conversational.

But I'm sure others will probably disagree. Oh well, I'm going to keep doing it my way anyway, no matter what people think.


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## AvGalen (Jun 25, 2008)

FredM said:


> Okay, sorry about that. You're right, I should explain more my solutions . I will !
> 
> I corrected another missing ' , it was y' instead of y. I hope it is know correct. (I guess I really was tired, I usually don't make mistakes in notations.)


Yep, that was the mistake. After doing the steps for the 2x2x2 + 2x2x3 I saw your pseudo-block was on the B-face if I used your 2 cube rotations, yet you wrote that the undo-move was on the F-face. That's how I figured the cube-rotations were bad, but I couldn't figure out what they should be because of the other mistake. Thanks for correcting it. And don't make mistakes like that in official competitions because they will just DNF you.

Technically, there is no rule that says you MUST explain your solution. We follow the WCA-rules and those state:


> E2f) The competitor must be able to give a clear explanation of the solution.


 But on this forum we also like to share ideas and information, so I (and most others) have made a habit of always explaining our solutions so others can recreate them, analyse them and learn from them.


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## Dene (Jun 25, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> But I believe in this particular situation, I did the correct thing. We are obviously not writing formally here; we're writing conversationally. That means we should use the same speech we would use in actual conversation. And I can assure you that, here in America at least, no one would say "a ell-ell skip" - everyone would say "an ell-ell skip". So I would argue it would have been wrong here for me to say "a LL skip", since it's conversational.



For sure. Of course if you are saying it as the letters then you would use "an". I had just never read it like this, you see. I was reading along and was thinking in my head "an last layer skip" and it just stood out  . It's kind of weird that I think of "LL" in full, whereas with almost every other acronym we use I think of it as the letters, not the words.

EDIT: Wow, bad week.


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