# Unveiling of the most anticipated V-CUBE 3



## pjk (Jan 24, 2012)

If you didn't get the latest Vcube newsletter just now:


> Dear friends and valued customers,
> 
> V-CUBE™ is delighted to unveil V-CUBE™ 3, the latest gem in our product range. V-CUBE™ 3 is the finest and most attractive three layered cube in the market and features the exceptional V-CUBE™ level product quality. V-CUBE™ technology makes the rotation of its layers incredibly smooth and enjoyable making it difficult to put down once you lay your hands on it.
> 
> ...



Check them out here (you can get flat, pillowed, DIY, or the all 3 - in both white and black colors):
http://www.v-cubes.com/prod_info/v-cube3.php


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## Specs112 (Jan 24, 2012)

Oh man I can't wait to see how utterly underwhelming this is.


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## KJ (Jan 24, 2012)

Nice. If I may ask, how much are they?($ please)


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## Bapao (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up. Just ordered a flat white one. Couldn't resist the urge 

Regards,

H.


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## Erik (Jan 24, 2012)

KJ said:


> Nice. If I may ask, how much are they?($ please)


 
pjk did send a link along with his post... it's written on the website


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## Pestvic (Jan 24, 2012)

*NEW V-Cube!!!*

The 3x3x3 Just came out! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVMIwzgQBKg

http://www.v-cubes.com/prod_info/v-cube3.php

What do you think?


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## asportking (Jan 24, 2012)

Any pics of the mechanism? That might give some idea on how good it is.


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## Escher (Jan 24, 2012)

I guess I'll wait for reviews to tell me whether this is an expensive paperweight or not (23 Euros or so including shipping I'm guessing?). A set of V-cube stickers would be cool though, would be nice if they sold them separately 

EDIT: Spoke too soon...


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## ThomasJE (Jan 24, 2012)

I reckon it will be good, but not as good as Dayan. It will be interesting what the internal structure is like, the cutting and if it pops often. This could become the new 'beginner cube'; the price is a little over a Rubik's brand, and it shoud be easily accessible. They may have tried to target beginners instead of more advanced cubers, which could be interesting.


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## Pestvic (Jan 24, 2012)

Working on getting a Review in the works. One on the way. Ill let you know!


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## Specs112 (Jan 24, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> I reckon it will be good, but not as good as Dayan. It will be interesting what the internal structure is like, the cutting and if it pops often. This could become the new 'beginner cube'; the price is a little over a Rubik's brand, and it shoud be easily accessible. They may have tried to target beginners instead of more advanced cubers, which could be interesting.


 
Probably this.

Given that V-Cube has their stuff in mainstream stores, they are able to target non-cubers, though it's doubtful they can sway too many people away from the Rubik's brand name for those who don't know anything about good cubes.

And if this is better than Dayan I will gouge my eyes out with a rusty spork. I'm that certain that it won't be.

*note: I will not actually gouge my eyes out, however I may make a video of me doing something equally stupid but (unlike gouging my eyes out) ultimately harmless.


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## teller (Jan 24, 2012)

Can't make much out of this, but here are the parts:


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 24, 2012)

I bet this is going to be the Mac of 3x3's. It looks awesome, but it costs more than twice of a cube that performs better. Also, it doesn't really perform well, and is incompatible with regular spare parts. And every other 3x3 manufacturer will be sued for making a cube with straight edges and corners -.-' Dammit Verdes, stick to large cubes.


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## Pestvic (Jan 24, 2012)

Apparently there is 3 sets of springs? What do you guys think about the idea that edges, corners and centers will all be adjustable? That's just a thought I had when I heard about "3 sets"


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## Cubenovice (Jan 24, 2012)

teller said:


> Can't make much out of this, but here are the parts:



Wow!!!

Dual-core

Must be very fast!!!!


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## Specs112 (Jan 24, 2012)

teller said:


> Can't make much out of this, but here are the parts:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


 
Huh. It looks... similar to Dayan, but more... boxy?


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 24, 2012)

Pestvic said:


> Apparently there is 3 sets of springs? What do you guys think about the idea that edges, corners and centers will all be adjustable? That's just a thought I had when I heard about "3 sets"


 
That would be interesting, but what would the purpose of that be?


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## peterbone (Jan 24, 2012)

teller said:


> Can't make much out of this, but here are the parts:


Are those small parts torpedoes on the right hand side?
Why are they allowed to use the rubik's brand colour scheme and not Dayan?


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## ThomasJE (Jan 24, 2012)

peterbone said:


> Are those small parts torpedoes on the right hand side?
> Why are they allowed to use the rubik's brand colour scheme and not Dayan?


 
I believe it's because Seven Towns approached Dayan, but not V-Cube. I'm sure that Seven Towns will speak to V-Cube next, after the hype of this new cube.

EDIT: They DO look like torpedos (well to me), or some anti-popping mech. If they are, I wonder if Dayan will complain. That would be ironic, after the incident with the Guhong.


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## radmin (Jan 24, 2012)

I just ordered a white DIY and a black DIY
The total with shipping to Ohio USA was $55.42
The only shipping option was UPS 8 days max
The payment options were paypal or credit card.

on the site the prices were in Euros


```
Products ordered
SKU 	Product 	Item price 	Quantity 	Total
V-CUBE 3 - DIY 	V-CUBE 3 - DIY 	€13.99   	1 	€13.99
V-CUBE 3 - DIY (BLACK) 	V-CUBE 3 - DIY (BLACK) 	€13.99   	1 	€13.99
Subtotal: 	€27.98
Shipping cost: 	€14.00
Order processing cost: 	€1.01
Total: 	€42.99
```

Guhong V2 will have to wait a bit.


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## MostEd (Jan 24, 2012)

wat the hell bag....
trololol torpedoes and dual core
im going to force my dad to order one, 6x6 will wait
man lol diy bag


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## shelley (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm tempted to get a pillowed version just because it looks cute. Please note that the pillowed version is currently *not* competition legal.


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## Bapao (Jan 24, 2012)

Specs112 said:


> Huh. It looks... similar to Dayan, but more... boxy?


 
I predicted this might happen in an earlier post but I was joking around at the time. Looks a lot like the pieces of a DaYan cube. Their patent sketches for the 3x3x3 look more like the classic Rubiks design. And it looks like they're even implementing torps...Now all they need is a cool name for it like "V-Hong" or something along those lines.


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## Cheese11 (Jan 24, 2012)

No way I'm getting this, mostly because I have no money.




shelley said:


> I'm tempted to get a pillowed version just because it looks cute. Please note that the pillowed version is currently *not* competition legal.


 
Lol, cute.


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## Mollerz (Jan 24, 2012)

Waiting for my PayPal account to be activated then putting in an order for this. Might as well see if it's any good and if it isn't, I need more multiBLD cubes anyway.


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## pdilla (Jan 24, 2012)

The fact that this cube has been in production for so long, one would think that they would have learned a good deal from watching Dayan's success? Fingers crossed that it will be a good main cube competitor.

-EDIT-

OMFG!!!!!! I have been FANTASIZING of having V-Cube colored stickers (esp. green and blue) on my cube. It looks AMAZING. And now all my fantasies have come true!!!


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## jrb (Jan 24, 2012)

I may just buy one of these. I can't resist the urge


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## Uberzj (Jan 24, 2012)

I just ordered the Black DIY kit in square and pillowed.
I can't wait for it to come in!


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## Stezwin (Jan 24, 2012)

Hmm there was no mention of this when i was trawling the net for my first speedcube i wonder if it will surpass the guhong that ive now ordered any news on a review yet guys?


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## ChrisBird (Jan 24, 2012)

I ordered a black DIY of the cubic 3x3. I'll be making a review video of it when I can. I'm a little excited for the fact that it's a V-Cube, but I've got all the sanity to know it's probably going to be not all that great.


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## Kirjava (Jan 24, 2012)

So when are Seventowns going to threaten V Cubes with legal action?


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## benskoning (Jan 24, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> So when are Seventowns going to threaten V Cubes with legal action?


Right after there done with dayan.


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## Dene (Jan 24, 2012)

Made my order for a white pillowed, a black cubic, and a black DIY. Was 60 EU, or $77AUD


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## souljahsu (Jan 24, 2012)

The pieces look suspiciously similar to those of the Guhong. I'm hoping that Dayan will sue them back and won't be getting these for myself.


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## radmin (Jan 24, 2012)

My prediction is that Seven Towns will grant permission to V-Cubes, either for a fee or for free. Then V-Cubes can say "used with permission" and be completely legal. I could be wrong.


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## BlueDevil (Jan 24, 2012)

I want to try it, but have absolutely no desire to pay over $20 bucks for shipping and everything when I could get an alpha or dayan for under $15 via a US store


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## TheMachanga (Jan 24, 2012)

souljahsu said:


> The pieces look suspiciously similar to those of the Guhong. I'm hoping that Dayan will sue them back and won't be getting these for myself.


 
Wrong way? lol


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## Innocence (Jan 25, 2012)

Just saying...this cube is still extremely reasonably priced, still well under a Rubik's brand. Pretty sure that it even costs less than the Zhanchi I bought (when flat white[lol] or flat black). Shipping, on the other hand, would add a bit, as v-cubes tend to do, but you can't really say that the 3x3x3 itself is overpriced, considering the overall plastic quality that v-cubes tend to use.

Personally, I won't be getting it, at least until I see a review.


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## iEnjoyCubing (Jan 25, 2012)

I'll probably pass on it unless reviews say they are amazing.

Edit: Way too expensive as well. It's like $35 with shipping for just one of them.


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## BlueDevil (Jan 25, 2012)

Innocence said:


> Just saying...this cube is still extremely reasonably priced, still well under a Rubik's brand. Pretty sure that it even costs less than the Zhanchi I bought (when flat white[lol] or flat black). Shipping, on the other hand, would add a bit, as v-cubes tend to do, but you can't really say that the 3x3x3 itself is overpriced, considering the overall plastic quality that v-cubes tend to use.
> 
> Personally, I won't be getting it, at least until I see a review.



Um, the V3s cost 15 EUROS. That's almost $20 US (or about 18.5 AUD). I can go to a local store and buy a rubik's brand for $12 – and no shipping! Add the shipping from greece, and it is too much. The only way I would EVER get it is if I got it at a comp or a local store for a cheaper price. I'm not paying 25 bucks for a 3x3.


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## RNewms27 (Jan 25, 2012)

I would buy one from a US store. (hint hint)


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## Innocence (Jan 25, 2012)

BlueDevil said:


> Um, the V3s cost 15 EUROS. That's almost $20 US (or about 18.5 AUD). I can go to a local store and buy a rubik's brand for $12 – and no shipping! Add the shipping from greece, and it is too much. The only way I would EVER get it is if I got it at a comp or a local store for a cheaper price. I'm not paying 25 bucks for a 3x3.


That's weird. Rubik's brand is $20 in stores where I am.


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## JohnLaurain (Jan 25, 2012)

Finally an adjustable v-cube without modding?


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## Godmil (Jan 25, 2012)

teller said:


> Can't make much out of this, but here are the parts:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


 
In the top centre is a corner with a long stalk, but below it is a piece with a short stalk. Confusing.


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## emolover (Jan 25, 2012)

JohnLaurain said:


> Finally an adjustable v-cube without modding?


 
No. Those are rivets.


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## cubecraze1 (Jan 25, 2012)

Sahid Velji said:


> That's a huge rip off considering Australian dollars are almost the same as US dollars.


 so how much do Rubiks brands cost in America


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## JohnLaurain (Jan 25, 2012)

Aren't the DIY kits with screws?


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## RNewms27 (Jan 25, 2012)

cubecraze1 said:


> so how much do Rubiks brands cost in America


 
$12


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## CheesePuffs (Jan 25, 2012)

They should start selling v cubes 2-7 at places like target


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## rubiksarlen (Jan 25, 2012)

Innocence said:


> That's weird. Rubik's brand is $20 in stores where I am.



Rubik's brand is RM25 in my country which is like less than 8 dollars. COME TO MALAYSIA!


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## masterofthebass (Jan 25, 2012)

CheesePuffs said:


> They should start selling v cubes 2-7 at places like target


 
Thats what v-cubes wants too. Its not that easy to do though.


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## axe97 (Jan 25, 2012)

it looks as if the corners do not have cuts outs on the edges like the guhong


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## Andreaillest (Jan 25, 2012)

Kind of exciting considering how anticipated we were for a V-3 back when V-Cubes first started production. Once reviews are in, I will decide if its worth the price. Hopefully it won't require long periods of breaking in.


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## chewbacca1229 (Jan 25, 2012)

Just bought a 3x3x3 DIY and a 3B that was assembled. I think we all need to stop ripping on v-cube. We did this with the 2x2x2. We complained and said they should focus on larger puzzles but that 2x2x2 is one of the best if not the best 2x2 and i think the 3x3x3 will be great.


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## emolover (Jan 25, 2012)

chewbacca1229 said:


> Just bought a 3x3x3 DIY and a 3B that was assembled. I think we all need to stop ripping on v-cube. We did this with the 2x2x2. We complained and said they should focus on larger puzzles but that 2x2x2 is one of the best if not the best 2x2 and i think the 3x3x3 will be great.


 
Why should we stop ripping on V-cube? It's a forum which is for discussion and what you call "ripping on" is the opinion of some people(including me). There 2x2 is in no way one of the best 2x2's. It is locky, slow and the screws scrap the plastic of the shells unless you have it really tight. Knowing this and how much I paid for the 2x2, I really doubt the 3x3 will come close to shadowing any Dayan cube.


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## rubiksarlen (Jan 25, 2012)

Expecting a review from you guys in a few days


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## TheMachanga (Jan 25, 2012)

CheesePuffs said:


> They should start selling v cubes 2-7 at places like target


 
I'm so lucky to live in a big city. If you live in a big city, go to your mall and look for some board game shops, like, family game night shops or whatever, places that sell stuff like that, and you're (or at least I am) 90% sure to find V-cubes, Rubik's, and even a few Mefferts.


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## JianhanC (Jan 25, 2012)

Is this the 'surprise new product' that they're giving as prizes in Cannes Open? I'd be interested to see how it spins.


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 25, 2012)

Innocence said:


> Just saying...this cube is still extremely reasonably priced, still well under a Rubik's brand


 
Just saying...you are incorrect. Even without shipping you can pick up a Rubik cheaper than that in England and we get over charged for everything.


Extremely expensive, seems completely different to their patent and clearly have made an inferior looking Dayan.
But they'll probably have version II out in a little over 20 years.


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## Henrik (Jan 25, 2012)

To me it looks like a GuHong!






With torpedoes.

I do not see the big resemblance between the picture and their patent. I was kind of looking forward to the "patent version", but they might have redesigned the V3 or maybe I am looking at the wrong patent.

http://www.v-cubes.com/pdf/European_patent.pdf

btw: link to big picture: https://v-cubes.com/ecom/images/P/IMG_2344-01.jpg


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## Kirjava (Jan 25, 2012)

Wait, it has torpz?

Scumbag VCubes. Attack Dayan for stealing their ideas. Steal Dayan's ideas.

inb4 someone mentions patents


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## MostEd (Jan 25, 2012)

TheMachanga said:


> I'm so lucky to live in a big city. If you live in a big city, go to your mall and look for some board game shops, like, family game night shops or whatever, places that sell stuff like that, and you're (or at least I am) 90% sure to find V-cubes, Rubik's, and even a few Mefferts.


 
Im very lucky then
I found SS and dayan cubes in this puzzle/thingie shop


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## Achifaifa (Jan 25, 2012)

Looks like a mix between a guhong and a cheap-ass random crappy cube to me. Waiting for reviews, there is no way I'm going to pay that much for a cube, but I want to check if they can do at least one decent cube.


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 25, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Attack Dayan for stealing their ideas. Steal Dayan's ideas.


Another thing that fits well with my post about the V-3 being the Mac of 3x3's. And V-Cubes acting all Apple on other companies. I'm still really excited to see how this turns out tough, I saw it's not that expensive after all. Cheaper than a Rubiks branded in Sweden at least.


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## radmin (Jan 25, 2012)

Henrik said:


> To me it looks like a GuHong!



When Ling Yun first came out it looked like a GuHong to me. Since the only Guhong I had was gummy I didn't bother. When I finally did get one I was kicking my self for not getting it sooner. They are nothing alike. I'm expecting this to have a unique feel.


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 25, 2012)

BrainOfSweden said:


> I saw it's not that expensive after all.



It's the most expensive 3x3 available on the internet (except possibly the gas assisted C4U and limited edition Rubik).


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## asportking (Jan 25, 2012)

cube-o-holic said:


> It's the most expensive 3x3 available on the internet (except possibly the gas assisted C4U and limited edition Rubik).


Don't forget about the Lubix Elite (although I'm not sure if they're still selling them on ebay).


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 25, 2012)

I didn't forget. I'll sell you a FII that I've spat in for $100 if you'd like.

edit - I'm not having a go at Lubik. They put time and effort into making a product better. But you are paying for the time and effort not the cube.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 25, 2012)

My thoughts on this. 
I think its going to be a very nice and smooth cube, but like the bigger cubes, its gunna need tons of modding. 
Maybe it will be the new Guhong. 

I really want to buy one before they get sued by anyone or anything happens.


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## JLarsen (Jan 25, 2012)

Sahid Velji said:


> Are V-cubes sold in any store at the moment or only from their website?


 Yeah I've seen that at a mall in Portsmouth NH


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 25, 2012)

cube-o-holic said:


> It's the most expensive 3x3 available* on the internet* (except possibly the gas assisted C4U and limited edition Rubik).


On the internet, yes, but still cheaper than a Rubiks branded in Sweden. Sure, I'm not expecting it to be better than any of the current most popular cubes that are also cheaper. What I meant is that the price is not a _total_ rip-off.


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## spirit (Jan 25, 2012)

Sahid Velji said:


> Are V-cubes sold in any store at the moment or only from their website?


 
I saw them at Mind Games inside Scarborough Town Centre and the Atrium on Bay before, but the last time I was there was about a year ago. I've never seen them in any big department stores like Walmart though.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 25, 2012)

radmin said:


> My prediction is that Seven Towns will grant permission to V-Cubes, either for a fee or for free. Then V-Cubes can say "used with permission" and be completely legal. I could be wrong.



If they do, I will go mad. But, if they don't allow it, and Dayan make a complaint, that would really hit V-Cube.



chewbacca1229 said:


> Just bought a 3x3x3 DIY and a 3B that was assembled. I think we all need to stop ripping on v-cube. We did this with the 2x2x2. We complained and said they should focus on larger puzzles but that 2x2x2 is one of the best if not the best 2x2 and i think the 3x3x3 will be great.



One of the best, but not THE best. Probably the WitTwo or Lanlan would be the best. Thankfully, Seven Towns can't sue them because their 2x2 uses the Japanese colour scheme, and Lanlan already uses purple. Or could they...


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## Mollerz (Jan 25, 2012)

Just ordered a white V3. Really looking forward to see what it's like regardless of outcome.


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## Muesli (Jan 25, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> If they do, I will go mad. But, if they don't allow it, and Dayan make a complaint, that would really hit V-Cube.


 
Their rights, they can do what they like. Dayan don't have a case.


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 25, 2012)

Don't know if anyone mentioned it or even saw it yet, but I found this comment from crazybadcuber, on one of his videos. 


crazybadcuber said:


> I'm keeping that box though so when I get a v 3 I can put a dayan logo on the v cube and store it in a dayan box. Just because V Cube's told me that anybody who asks if there are torpedo's in their cubes are not welcome LOL They also told me that *if I want an adjustable cube to buy from the "chinese people".*


They can't be serious, can they? If they are, I feel sorry for everyone that already bought it, or is it _that_ perfect out of the box?
_Edit:_
I just had to read up on the flame wars on their facebook page, and they are seriously telling anyone that questions them that they are not welcome as customers. Wtf? I know it happened before but now I changed my mind. They are worse than Apple, lol. At least Apple is happy that I pay them even if I dislike them


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## The Bloody Talon (Jan 25, 2012)

BrainOfSweden said:


> I just had to read up on the flame wars on their facebook page, and they are seriously telling anyone that questions them that they are not welcome as customers. Wtf? I know it happened before but now I changed my mind. They are worse than Apple, lol. At least Apple is happy that I pay them even if I dislike them



I read it too. They don't know how to answer properly to their costumers.


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## Gabo (Jan 25, 2012)

I feel realy sorry about what v-cubes are doing. I just cheked their facebook and, as I espected they errased all the coments... but... dont worry, it's all here 

http://www.rubikmexico.com/t3425-el-v-cube-3-traera-torpedos-como-los-de-dayan-d#35852

I taked screen shots of the discusion because i wanted to post it in the mexican forum so i could translate it to spanish later for the latin-american forums.

I whas thiniking about geting one, but after this... i will not buy any v-cube.

Also, they banished me from their page , so i now know that costumers complains are not welcom in their comunity.

PD:sorry for my bad english D:


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 26, 2012)

I had to write something on that page just to troll them. I think they got really owned with one of the most recent posts (not by me). It's night in Europe right now, and I should be sleeping, but I can't wait to see if they respond tomorrow xD


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## Antcuber (Jan 26, 2012)

Gabo said:


> I feel realy sorry about what v-cubes are doing. I just cheked their facebook and, as I espected they errased all the coments... but... dont worry, it's all here
> 
> http://www.rubikmexico.com/t3425-el-v-cube-3-traera-torpedos-como-los-de-dayan-d#35852
> 
> ...



wow, after reading the page I had to rethink ever buying a v-cube again...


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## Punjisticks (Jan 26, 2012)

Is anybody doing a review on this soon? I so want to see if this is worth the hype.


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## rubiksarlen (Jan 26, 2012)

Check out this post by a guy Justin: "Again V-Cubes! CONGRATULATIONS on releasing your latest and newest V-CUBE 3! I sure am looking forward to new and future patented products to be released!"

And V-cubes replied: "Thank you Justin, We will release them all, because we do have positive's people support. Also the market seems to like us more and more..."

LOL? I really sure hope they're being sarcastic.....


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## byliu88 (Jan 26, 2012)

+1 for kevin


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## Muesli (Jan 26, 2012)

It amuses me how V-cubes suddenly want in on the speedcubing market. Quote _"The DIY is not a mass producable product. We sell it only online for the cubers. If cubers not like it we could stop selling it thought we doubt this will be the case [sic]_."

Their 6x6 cube is almost impossible to work with unless it is extensively modded and altered from the original designs, the 5x5 requires some sanding to make it smooth and none of their 5-7 cubes are adjustable (I don't know about the 2x2).

They have taken years to act upon their patents, and even then release silly (from a speedcubing perspective) cubes like the Illusion and the Dazzler in lieu of the cubes that were sought after by our community. (2,3,4,8)

I think this is an interesting change of tone for a company that has so obviously not pandered to the Speedcubing community.

It's very hard to take their side. Whilst it might not be patent-infringing it sure is hippocritical of them.

I shan't be getting one. It's also pretty overpriced for a 3x3 when we can get tried and tested cubes from Dayan for almost 2/3 of the price.

EDIT: Also, screw you all. I was about to go to bed when this drama started. Late night again.


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## chewbacca1229 (Jan 26, 2012)

rubiksarlen said:


> Check out this post by a guy Justin: "Again V-Cubes! CONGRATULATIONS on releasing your latest and newest V-CUBE 3! I sure am looking forward to new and future patented products to be released!"
> 
> And V-cubes replied: "Thank you Justin, We will release them all, because we do have positive's people support. Also the market seems to like us more and more..."
> 
> LOL? I really sure hope they're being sarcastic.....


 
I think that many people are excited. Its not just that its gonna be a good cube. It is that its a v-cube and i enjoy having the whole v-cube collection because all their puzzles are good.


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## Kyle™ (Jan 26, 2012)

People bashing V-cubes for "copying" are wrong. They are releasing puzzles that they have had planned for years.
The companies that copy V-cubes may be selling good quality products, and deliver on time but they do it for the money.
If anyone doesn't know, V-cubes was the only company interacting with our community and taking our feedback on their products before they were even released. This was several years ago, before any of these Chinese companies probably existed. To not take V-cubes side is to ignore the one company who gave us what we wanted, solely because we asked for it. All I see lately are Chinese companies who beg for attention and hand out discounts. How can anyone take their side? It's mutiny against the decade-old community that grew into what you see here on this forum. 
Back on topic, this cube looks stupid.
Lol


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## Daniel Wu (Jan 26, 2012)

Holy expensive. I'm interested to see how people who do get it like it though.


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## musicninja17 (Jan 26, 2012)

After talking to Konstantinos Verdes for quite some time at the MN competition last year, I really got a glimpse of his personality. He can be a nice guy on the surface, but if you say something that he doesn't necessarily agree with, he can be a dick. I think the whole using the torpedos thing is their way of sticking it to the "chinese companies"...I mean I'd be pissed off too if YJ pulled copyright infringement like that. 

He talked about they actually had a physical run in at a certain toy fair that the both of them were attending and they had "YJ kicked out of the place". I have no clue what all is the true story; but it was just interesting to meet him in person. I went away with very mixed feelings for the Verdes family that day.

He is _*extremely*_ sensitive about the whole copyright thing. And i'm sure the little bit of language barrier doesn't help. I'm not even sure if he _is_ the main PR guy. And whoever it is needs to be fired. The posting on Facebook sounds so unprofessional.


----------



## Stefan (Jan 26, 2012)

byliu88 said:


> +1 for kevin


 
-1

He also wrote this amusing piece:


Kevin Hsu said:


> V-CUBE said:
> 
> 
> > If someone(or even the thieves) believe that we copied anyone they can go to law
> ...


:fp

He's way too eager to see fault in everything V-CUBE writes, including where there is none. V-CUBE could have handled it better, but I find their responses fairly reasonable.


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## Cool Frog (Jan 26, 2012)

Fig 3.3.1 is a...


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## aronpm (Jan 26, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> Fig 3.3.1 is a...


 
cross-section of a centre piece


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## byliu88 (Jan 26, 2012)

Stefan said:


> -1
> 
> He also wrote this amusing piece:
> 
> ...


 idk, in my opinion V-Cube is really trying to avoid perfectly reasonable questions (I mean he even asked politely!) with perfectly justified reasons to do so.
edit:
also, I honestly don't care whether they use torpedos or not, whether they stole the idea or not, its just the fact that they refuse to admit anything of the sort that surprises me.


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## Kirjava (Jan 26, 2012)

V-CUBE said:


> If someone(or even the thieves) believe that we copied anyone they can go to law


 
Something doesn't have to be illegal to be a copy.

I'm glad they're taking designs from Dayan. As long as they no longer cause them trouble everything is fine.


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## choza244 (Jan 26, 2012)

LOL at the end they copied the torpedoes idea from the Dayan cubes, just hope Dayan could sue them (knowing that is almost imposible to happen).

I can't say I wont buy one, I don't like the company but that pillowed version looks interesting.


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## cookieyo145 (Jan 26, 2012)

Just posted on their facebook. Im Albert Jiang. i tried to be as nice as possible. I shouldn't have.


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## emolover (Jan 26, 2012)

Wow. I swear the guy answering the questions on the Facebook page is the absolute most stubborn person ever. To think I was starting to like V-cubes again then I saw the disrespect they give to any one who isn't 100% agreeing with them. Even though it has been almost a year since I read there patent, I truely do not remember ever seeing anything about anything that is something like the torpedo. It would have been fine of they had made the torpedo's look different like Alpha did with there CC, but they are just blatantly copying Dayan. There responces to that would be that Dayan's corners look the same, but in reality they are as alike as humans and cows are. Sure they are mammals(sure they are corners) but that is the only simalarity between them. 

I just don't think it is right for one company to dictate a whole sport(could think of a better word) when they are trying to bring it to the ground. Verdes truely does not care about the speed cubing community besides the fact that we have money to spend, we are treated the same as those horrible sticker peelers that V-cubes is trying to get to so they spend there money on over priced productes which they will never fully appreciate.


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## Stefan (Jan 26, 2012)

cookieyo145 said:


> Just posted on their facebook. Im Albert Jiang. i tried to be as nice as possible. *I shouldn't have.*


 
But... but... you _liked_ your comment :confused:


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## qqwref (Jan 26, 2012)

KYLE ALLAIRE DROPS BOMBS! said:


> People bashing V-cubes for "copying" are wrong. They are releasing puzzles that they have had planned for years.
> The companies that copy V-cubes may be selling good quality products, and deliver on time but they do it for the money.
> If anyone doesn't know, V-cubes was the only company interacting with our community and taking our feedback on their products before they were even released. This was several years ago, before any of these Chinese companies probably existed. To not take V-cubes side is to ignore the one company who gave us what we wanted, solely because we asked for it. All I see lately are Chinese companies who beg for attention and hand out discounts. How can anyone take their side? It's mutiny against the decade-old community that grew into what you see here on this forum.


Not sure if your "lol" meant that your entire post was sarcastic, but I feel like I should say that V-cubes originally took so long to deliver on their promised cubes that many people believed they were a hoax, and that they showed an attitude like this back then (before the 5-7 were released) too.

Just a little history: when the 5-7 were finally released, V-cubes got a lot of praise, and a lot of people completely reversed their opinions from highly negative to highly positive. And they deserved it - it's true that the years before that were terrible, but when the cubes were finally released, the world of bigcubing was essentially revolutionized. Plus, for a while, V-cubes was very friendly and extremely generous - they regularly donated prize money/cubes to competitions, and even flew a bunch of top bigcubers (for instance, me, Dan Cohen, and Frank Morris from the US) over to Germany to help show off at their booth at a large toy show, which was really fun. I think lately, though, V-cubes hasn't been keeping up with what people wanted, and they seem to have gotten less friendly over time too (with customer service, at least). The whole thing about getting upset and repeatedly talking about their intellectual property really hearkens back to the time before the big 5-7 release. I'm not sure why they haven't put in a lot of effort on producing the 4x4 and 8x8+, or improving their existing 5-7 designs, considering that many of the Chinese companies seem to make new bigcube designs pretty frequently. I fear that if V-cubes isn't careful they may end up almost as irrelevant to speedcubers as Seventowns is... and that makes me sad, because I know what great things they are capable of if they take care with what they say and how they act.


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## MaeLSTRoM (Jan 26, 2012)

Stefan said:


> ... V-CUBE could have handled it better, but I find their responses fairly reasonable.


 
I agree with this. V-cubes are a good company, but if you had people telling you that your product that you have planned for years, is a copy of a new-ish product, I tink you would get annoyed too. Just leave off them guys, and maybe they'll be more likely to do nice stuff for the community again.


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## The Bloody Talon (Jan 26, 2012)

MaeLSTRoM said:


> I agree with this. V-cubes are a good company, but if you had people telling you that your product that you have planned for years, is a copy of a new-ish product, I tink you would get annoyed too. Just leave off them guys, and maybe they'll be more likely to do nice stuff for the community again.


 
well it is understandable (for me) that they will be annoyed. But they should be still friendly with their costumer.


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## amostay2004 (Jan 26, 2012)

They were arguably reasonable until they started deleting those comments that were thankfully screenshot because I would've missed it =P


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## Godmil (Jan 26, 2012)

Everyone can tell that the torpedos are lifted from Dayan... what was the point in badgering them about it... when are you going to get a company to publicly admit that they use someone else's idea?
V-Cubes PR is a bit poor, but it just seems kinda human, the person is clearly emotionally connected to the product, and has a big beef with the fact that many Chinese companies are profiting from their initial designs.
I'm glad V-Cubes are using the latest cubing technologies... as well as allowing others to use theirs... I really don't see the need to 'demand an explanation'.

qqwref, it takes a long time to release a new product if you're just starting up a company, I can quite easily see them taking years to get the first one out the door. Also for releasing new cubes... it takes a lot of money (a hellava lot more than it does in China).


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm looking forward to seeing the V4 with it's misalignment mech lifted straight from X's designs.
It's just too easy these days for 1 student to mass produce puzzles when they have a DeLorean to steal future V designs with.


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## aronpm (Jan 26, 2012)

cube-o-holic said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing the V4 with it's misalignment mech lifted straight from X's designs.
> It's just too easy these days for 1 student to mass produce puzzles when they have a DeLorean to steal future V designs with.


 
Don't kid yourself, V-Cubes wouldn't bother with a misalignment mechanism.


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## Pixel 6 (Jan 26, 2012)

Sweet! A GuHong V2, and the knock-off V3 in the same month... I can't wait until Seven Towns releases their long awaited original V4!

- Pixel -


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 26, 2012)

So are we now under the impression that V only took legal action against Dayan because they wanted to make a complete KO of their design, opposed to Dayan just using the conical concept put forward by V?


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## Kirjava (Jan 26, 2012)

cube-o-holic said:


> So are we now under the impression that V only took legal action against Dayan because they wanted to make a complete KO of their design, opposed to Dayan just using the conical concept put forward by V?


 
No.


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## rubiksarlen (Jan 26, 2012)

I think we should start a new thread on this cos the argument has taken up like more than half of this thread.


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 26, 2012)

rubiksarlen said:


> I think we should start a new thread on this cos the argument has taken up like more than half of this thread.


 
Any V cube thread will end up like this. Probably better off making a new thread in a weeks time after the people who have wasted their money recieve their new GuHong, sorry I mean V-3.


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## rubiksarlen (Jan 26, 2012)

Also, is it true that they sued other companies that produced pillowed 3x3s, like QJ and Mefferts?


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 26, 2012)

Maybe. V probably think that you can own a shape.


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## Bapao (Jan 26, 2012)

Although the pieces do look similar to those of a DaYan cube, the V-Cube pieces on the few pictures posted thus far look less "refined" IMO. I can imagine that the "V-Hong" will perform nicely, but I doubt it will be on par with the GuHong. 

And although I don't agree with the manner by which some people are approaching V-Cube via their site, I'm slightly disappointed by V-Cubes general reactions from a PR point of view. Their attitude reminds me of the V-Cube/ DaYan copyright infringement thread back in the day. I'm not saying V-Cube should just suck up negative/confronting feedback, but I would like to see them taking a more professional approach to dealing with potential customer concerns and general criticism.

I doubt this discussion would have seemed as anti-V-Cube as it does if their stance were more diplomatic.


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## qqwref (Jan 26, 2012)

Godmil said:


> qqwref, it takes a long time to release a new product if you're just starting up a company, I can quite easily see them taking years to get the first one out the door.


Yeah, in hindsight that didn't really surprise me, but it was still annoying because of how early they had initially promised a release. Now, though, it's weird to see such a long period between releases, especially when they don't make small improvements to their existing design (such as fixing the 6x6 core, or making adjustable centers). You can compare this to other companies that, although they are centered in China, still do come out with many new puzzles and modifications to older ones. I do remember seeing an improvement in the design of the invisible edges and obliques on the 6x6, but I can't confirm or deny whether it's actually included in the currently available V6. 



Godmil said:


> Also for releasing new cubes... it takes a lot of money (a hellava lot more than it does in China).


Absolutely! But people still want to see new puzzles come out; a few years is a long time in a community that changes as fast as this one does. I know V-cubes is not fond of China (and I totally understand this, many cube manufacturers/modders/collectors aren't) but maybe producing everything in Greece was not a good long-term plan.


I think in general my attitude is not one of criticism of V-cubes, but one of disappointment. I don't think they are really wrong to do what they do (legally, morally, even business wise) but it's not the best decision they could take and they are not making the effort they should be making to get on the good side of the ever-growing worldwide speedcubing community.


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## cookieyo145 (Jan 27, 2012)

Crap im banned from their facebook page.


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 27, 2012)

^Me too. I can still read it, but I can't comment, regardless of me liking the page or not. They also deleted all posts that make them look bad, propably so that people will think their cubes are good -.-'


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## cookieyo145 (Jan 27, 2012)

It says someone commented, it would be interesting to know what they said.


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## CheesePuffs (Jan 27, 2012)

Anyone have any reviews out?


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## Stefan (Jan 27, 2012)

Ok fine.



BrainOfSweden said:


> They also deleted all posts that make them look bad, propably so that people will think their cubes are good


 
What did the deleted comments have to do with the quality of their cubes?

And you people trying sooooo hard to see evil ought to realize that you're talking about facebook. facebook! Since when is that the appropriate place for anything but fun/interesting/constructive talk? Never noticed there's only a like-button, no dislike-button? It's good that V-Cube deletes the clutter, doesn't have to be them trying to "hide" anything. Do you also think that whenever the mods in this forum delete something, they do so to hide something that made them look bad? Not all content is welcome, and that's nothing unusual or bad.


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## jonlin (Jan 27, 2012)

Sahid Velji said:


> Are V-cubes sold in any store at the moment or only from their website?


 
Yes. There is a store I found in the mall called "The marble brain games" where I found a v cube 5, 7, and pillowed 2. I bought the 7x7.
I'm regretting it because it sucks ****.


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## JLarsen (Jan 27, 2012)

Even though this PR guy was astonishingly unprofessional, and (he? most likely) removed what made him look bad, I'm not going to throw the whole company under the bus as a result. It seems to me that V Cube is trying to gain back the hearts of the speedsolving community with things like the V3 and the adjustable screw sets for 5-7. I was quick to get angry as an initial response to this whole drama but I really hope that everyone can take a step back and see this from the perspective of that guy on Facebook, and not generalize Verdes, or the company as evil or mean.


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## rubiksarlen (Jan 27, 2012)

what?! check their Facebook page again, the posts they deleted are somehow there again!


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## Meep (Jan 27, 2012)

cookieyo145 said:


> It says someone commented, it would be interesting to know what they said.


 
I was the one who commented, and said that Speedsolving isn't the entire cubing community, which you tried to say you were representing. I also added some bits about how a lot of people posting there are being ignorant, and that while V-Cubes' decisions/responses to people at the moment aren't the best, it's almost understandable considering how some people are arguably harassing them.


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 27, 2012)

Stefan said:


> Ok fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Valid point, but I will not agree fully. No reason to get mean tough. I realise some content might not be welcome, but this is a forum, and I see a difference between that and a company that produces stuff. I believe facebook is a perfectly good place to discuss this type of things, as other people will see it. I might have chosen the wrong expression, even tough some of the comments had to do with quality. But they may, or may not, have been trying to hide the fact that they acted like ******s. Sure, some of the people on facebook did too, but the customer always have the right to say what he feels, and doesn't always have to do so in a professional way. Remember that this started with a simple question regarding the obvious torpedoes, and that whoever is behind that account started raging even before someone had said anything offensive. Of course people will get mad. You might be right that they deleted comments to "clean up", or maybe they want to look like the perfect beloved cubing company. Only they know, and I think I'm done here


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## Stefan (Jan 27, 2012)

BrainOfSweden said:


> No reason to get mean tough.



So why did you? You and the others suggesting somewhat unethical reasons when, as you acknowledged now, _"only they know"_? That's mean.



BrainOfSweden said:


> but the customer always have the right to say what he feels



As does the seller. The customer is no higher being or whatever. Customer and seller are _partners _in a deal and neither is somehow "worth more". Customers with a _"The customer is always right"_ attitude are egomaniacs.



BrainOfSweden said:


> whoever is behind that account started raging even before someone had said anything offensive.



Well, looks like from his perspective/understanding, he saw people wrongly suggesting that his company was stealing. How is that not offensive? Also, where's the "rage"?


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## TheMachanga (Jan 27, 2012)

jonlin said:


> Yes. There is a store I found in the mall called "The marble brain games" where I found a v cube 5, 7, and pillowed 2. I bought the 7x7.
> I'm regretting it because it sucks ****.


 
Ok, I haven't been cubing much lately, but after reading this thread, I have to ask:

Why do so many people think V-Cube cubes suck now?

The v-7 is a great cube, did you even bother breaking it in and lubing it? Since when was their so much hate? I still like V-cubes, they introduced 3 great cubes with great mechs and gave us the 6x6 and 7x7. I don't know why so many people are complaining about the situation. V-cubes must be pretty pissed off about you guys' attitude too. So what if they used torpedos? That was an innovative invention by Dayan, but remember that Dayan still took the cones.


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 27, 2012)

Stefan said:


> So why did you? You and the others suggesting somewhat unethical reasons when, as you acknowledged now, _"only they know"_? That's mean.


Well I was only speculating. On their facebook page tough, I wasn't being mean. I was only upset that they refused to give a professional answer to a legit question.


Stefan said:


> As does the seller. The customer is no higher being or whatever. Customer and seller are _partners _in a deal and neither is somehow "worth more". Customers with a _"The customer is always right"_ attitude are egomaniacs.


Of course the seller does. But as a seller, you are expected to do it in a professional way. I wouldn't say that I'm an egomaniac, and of course, the customer is sometimes completely wrong. But here in Sweden, most people live by "the customer is always right". I understand this is frustrating to some sellers, and it might work very different in Greece, but I'm Swedish, and I can't do anything about that.


Stefan said:


> Well, looks like from his perspective/understanding, he saw people wrongly suggesting that his company was stealing. How is that not offensive? Also, where's the "rage"?


Rage is a strong word, but it was the best I could come up with. At the very least he or she was very mad. And with all due respect, but I still don't understand why they didn't make a professional explanation of the case in the first place. Just saying "everyone steal from us, we never steal. You are not welcome here" is not how a company should respond. Sure, whoever wrote might have tight emotional bonds to the company, but you have to keep emotions and profession apart from each other.


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## Stefan (Jan 27, 2012)

BrainOfSweden said:


> they refused to give a professional answer to a legit question



What if they simply didn't understand the question? Just because *you* happen to know what torpedos are, doesn't mean everybody at V-Cubes does.


----------



## BrainOfSweden (Jan 27, 2012)

Stefan said:


> What if they simply didn't understand the question? Just because *you* happen to know what torpedos are, doesn't mean everybody at V-Cubes does.


First of all, I wasn't the one who asked in the first place. Secondly, someone explained what it was, and made a very clear explanation. And well, they must know what they've produced, right? PR-guy might not tough, so don't get started on that one


----------



## Stefan (Jan 27, 2012)

BrainOfSweden said:


> First of all, I wasn't the one who asked in the first place.



Ah right, you did this:



BrainOfSweden said:


> I had to write something on that page *just to troll them*.


 
Much nicer indeed.



BrainOfSweden said:


> Secondly, someone explained what it was, and made a very clear explanation.



To me it looks like that was misunderstood.


----------



## BrainOfSweden (Jan 27, 2012)

Stefan said:


> Ah right, you did this:
> Much nicer indeed.


Well, I might have said that I was trolling them, but still, I did with style. Trolling with style? Well, I didn't just say "hehe u sux lololol", and I did it mostly to make my point of view clear. I just wanted to make a little fun out of it, and therefore wrote, oh crap, they deleted that too. Well I asked how come they have made a cube that "description of the basic concept of a Rubiks Cube" if they never copied anyone. I know there's lot's of shortcomings in that argument, but I wasn't dead serious about it either. 


Stefan said:


> To me it looks like that was misunderstood.


Might be so, but I don't understand how anyone could misunderstand that, the guy even explained what a pop is, and thus, why we need pop-resistancy.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 27, 2012)

It's all about the reputation of the business. It takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch (or whatever that proverb is). I can see the PR guy getting V-Cube in a lot of trouble. If people don't like the customer service, they will just get a Dayan or another brand. What was this all caused by? One comment. One mistake. A mistake which could really hurt V-Cube. Until V-Cube's PR guy makes an apology, then they will keep digging into the hole he got them in. I know that some people won't agree with this at all, but this is my honest opinion.


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## Bapao (Jan 27, 2012)

V-Cube reps aren't always as tactful as one might expect. For those that missed the following 65 page thread, get yourself some coffee and grab a comfortable chair:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?26141-Dayan-Guhong-vs.-V-Cube-Patent-Infringement


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## qqwref (Jan 27, 2012)

Speaking of that thread, this post was amusing in hindsight:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...t-Infringement&p=507985&viewfull=1#post507985


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## Dene (Jan 27, 2012)

Muesli said:


> Their 6x6 cube is almost impossible to work with unless it is extensively modded and altered from the original designs, the 5x5 requires some sanding to make it smooth and none of their 5-7 cubes are adjustable (I don't know about the 2x2).


 
I prefer both the 5x5 and 6x6 unmodded. I know a lot of people don't like the clicking, but everyone that has tried my 6x6 (before it became too loose through extensive use) knows that it turned really well. My old 5x5 was also viewed positively by many people way back in 2009 when I was in the US.



BrainOfSweden said:


> ^Me too. I can still read it, but I can't comment, regardless of me liking the page or not. They also deleted all posts that make them look bad, propably so that people will think their cubes are good -.-'


 
So if someone puts a whole lot of posts on your fb page insulting you, you would leave them there? I doubt it.

Also @BrainsOfSweden the word is spelt "though"; "tough" is a completely different word in English. It's just bugging the crap out of me, that's all.


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 27, 2012)

Dene said:


> So if someone puts a whole lot of posts on your fb page insulting you, you would leave them there? I doubt it.
> 
> Also @BrainsOfSweden the word is spelt "though"; "tough" is a completely different word in English. It's just bugging the crap out of me, that's all.


I'm not a company. Also, some of the posts might have been insulting from their point of view, but not *all* of them. I can understand that they don't want posts like "V-Cubes are good? lol", but that was only one post.
Thanks for enlightening me, I just always misspell some English words. I wont do it again *though*.


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## rubiksarlen (Jan 28, 2012)

So what's gonna happen when everyone who purchased a V3 gets their order and finds out that we were right about the torpedoes, and what will happen when Dayan finds out?


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## TimMc (Jan 28, 2012)

rubiksarlen said:


> So what's gonna happen when everyone who purchased a V3 gets their order and finds out that we were right about the torpedoes, and what will happen when Dayan finds out?


 
I don't think everyone who purchased a V-CUBE 3 has speculated that it may contain torpedos. So it's difficult to answer your first question. Some people might by happy  , while some might be sad .

You'd have to ask Bao Daqing (Dayan) to comment. It's difficult say what will definitely happen after he finds out that the V-CUBE 3 either does or does not contain torpedoes. He might be happy  , or he might be sad .

I hope that helps.

On an unrelated note: Does the V-CUBE 3 pop easily?

Tim.


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## Meep (Jan 28, 2012)

Have people considered that DaYan possibly doesn't have patents on the torpedoes in the countries that V-Cube has patents in, if at all? Been seeing a lot of people jumping to the conclusion that DaYan can/will take action about it, or that V-Cube is infringing a patent.


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 28, 2012)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> It seems to me that V Cube is trying to gain back the hearts of the speedsolving community with things like the V3 and the *adjustable screw sets for 5-7*


 
Really? Where? No more useless overused V cubes?

edit - just checked their website. No sign of these sets. Was that just hope?


----------



## amostay2004 (Jan 28, 2012)

Meep said:


> Have people considered that DaYan possibly doesn't have patents on the torpedoes in the countries that V-Cube has patents in, if at all? Been seeing a lot of people jumping to the conclusion that DaYan can/will take action about it, or that V-Cube is infringing a patent.


 
I think the (sensible) people here are not caring about the legal issues or whether or not DaYan will take any action (because they most likely can't for reasons you stated), but rather how much of a hypocrite V-Cubes will be if they blatantly copy a DaYan design while previously trying to take action against DaYan for copying theirs.


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## rubiksarlen (Jan 28, 2012)

So Vcubes are just gonna get away with it cos Dayan didn't patent their torpedoes? Although they did say whoever believes they copied Dayan can go to law, I doubt that will happen. Imagine if Cubes invented the Rubik's cube and patented it in 1980, we'll still be frustrated with our overpriced V3s that still suck after 30 years of breaking in. Oh well, let's just see how the new cube will turn out, though I doubt it'll be good.


----------



## Uberzj (Jan 28, 2012)

How long is the normal processing time for a V-Cubes order?
It has been quite a while since I ordered my 7 so I do not remember.
I ordered the V-3 the day of release, still yet to see any change in status on the website. It is still "Processing".


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## BrainOfSweden (Jan 28, 2012)

cube-o-holic said:


> Really? Where? No more useless overused V cubes?
> 
> edit - just checked their website. No sign of these sets. Was that just hope?


Check out the video in the first post of this thread


----------



## TimMc (Jan 28, 2012)

amostay2004 said:


> but rather how much of a hypocrite V-Cubes will be if they blatantly copy a DaYan


 
Verdes can still prevent DaYan cubes from being sold via eBay and PayPal, and DaYan could try to boycott Verdes. The minority of consumers in this market (i.e. competitors) would become annoyed if either group of products became unavailable due to some legal battle (or VeRO). Perhaps I'm just underestimating the size and impact of the hive mind...



rubiksarlen said:


> overpriced V3s



Rubik's Cube is US$26.50 (Australia), Dayan Zhan Chi is US$22, V-CUBE 3 is US$18.50

Tim.


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## somerandomkidmike (Jan 28, 2012)

rubiksarlen said:


> Oh well, let's just see how the new cube will turn out, *though I doubt it'll be good*.


 
Why? V-cubes has released good cubes in the past.


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## chewbacca1229 (Jan 29, 2012)

V-Cubes said early this coming week all order are being shipped out. Some of you guys take this way to far. They are a company that brought us 2 revolutionary cubes. The 6x5 and 7x7. Both took a while to make great cubes but we would't have had them without them. Also the 2x2x2 was instantly destroyed. When the v-cube is just as good as a zhanchi you will all want it and have it and make it your main. How could you say you have all the sanity to know it probably won't be too good if you haven't even put your hands on it. I MEAN LOOSEN UP CUBING COMMUNITY AND REALIZE WHAT V-CUBE HAS DONE FOR US!


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## XVicarious (Jan 29, 2012)

Okay guys. I got this whole torpedo thing I think. I went on the facebook page and pretended to be a novice/beginner with puzzles and I'm going to see what they say about it (and handle it)


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## Meep (Jan 29, 2012)

Just thought I'd leave this here:


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## masterofthebass (Jan 29, 2012)

Meep said:


> Just thought I'd leave this here:


 
chris tran <3 That picture is total win though.


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## ZincK_NOVA (Jan 29, 2012)

Quick question or two:
First; can I confirm that this is v-cube's patent, and figure 3 is their 3x3 design? http://www.v-cubes.com/pdf/European_patent.pdf (this was posted above).
Second, assuming the above is true; am I the only person who doesn't see a significant resemblance between figure 3 and the cube itself? Maybe I'm missing something, either way I'd be very grateful if somebody could clear this up. Thanks.


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## Meep (Jan 29, 2012)

ZincK_NOVA said:


> Quick question or two:
> First; can I confirm that this is v-cube's patent, and figure 3 is their 3x3 design? http://www.v-cubes.com/pdf/European_patent.pdf (this was posted above).
> Second, assuming the above is true; am I the only person who doesn't see a significant resemblance between figure 3 and the cube itself? Maybe I'm missing something, either way I'd be very grateful if somebody could clear this up. Thanks.


 
You might have to go through all the text rather than base it entirely off of the pictures. IIRC the pictures just show how they derived the geometry of the conforming surfaces.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 29, 2012)

ZincK_NOVA said:


> Quick question or two:
> First; can I confirm that this is v-cube's patent, and figure 3 is their 3x3 design? http://www.v-cubes.com/pdf/European_patent.pdf (this was posted above).
> Second, assuming the above is true; am I the only person who doesn't see a significant resemblance between figure 3 and the cube itself? Maybe I'm missing something, either way I'd be very grateful if somebody could clear this up. Thanks.



Figures are irrelevant to patent discussions. The only things that matter are the claims the patent makes, which are very specific. Products go through many iterations between a concept on a piece of paper to a physical item, and the figures are there to only give a raw picture of the basic form of a product.


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## ZincK_NOVA (Jan 29, 2012)

I see. Thanks, I don't really understand exactly how patents work but, I'll try to make sense of it when I'm more awake (ie: tomorrow, as it is nearly midnight here).


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## aronpm (Jan 30, 2012)

TimMc said:


> Rubik's Cube is US$26.50 (Australia), Dayan Zhan Chi is US$22, V-CUBE 3 is US$18.50
> 
> Tim.


I can't comment on the price of the Rubik's Cube (although I believe it to be accurate) but your other prices are wrong. I can see a Dayan Zhanchi on Puzzle Addictions for USD$18.45 (free shipping) and the V-CUBE 3 is €14.99, which is roughly $18.50 *not including shipping*.


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## Datak (Jan 30, 2012)

*Is the v cube 3 adjustable*

Is the vcube 3 adjustable


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## Owen (Jan 30, 2012)

Yes.


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## Bapao (Jan 30, 2012)

Meep said:


> Just thought I'd leave this here:


 
I was looking for that everywhere but just couldn't find it. Thanks for sharing 

Which higher order V-Cube was that though? 7x7x7?


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## Dene (Jan 30, 2012)

Datak said:


> Is the vcube 3 adjustable


 
You can get adjustable DIY kits or non-adjustable pre-made cubes


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## masterofthebass (Jan 30, 2012)

Bapao said:


> I was looking for that everywhere but just couldn't find it. Thanks for sharing
> 
> Which higher order V-Cube was that though? 7x7x7?



Chris made it from a 6x6 iirc.



Dene said:


> You can get adjustable DIY kits or non-adjustable pre-made cubes


 
Are you sure about that assumption? I haven't seen any evidence that the pre-made are/aren't adjustable


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## TheMachanga (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm sure V-cubes is smart enough to know that we like adjustable 3x3's.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jan 30, 2012)

TheMachanga said:


> I'm sure V-cubes is smart enough to know that we like adjustable 3x3's.


 
I hate to sound harsh, but V-cubes are smart enough to add bumps to the corners of a 5x5 to make it turn worse, design an anti-misalignment mechanism which clearly fails to prevent misalignment, and not realise we like adjustable 5x5s, 6x6s and 7x7s. I commend them for the basic idea of the conical cuts which make for a good mech, but they suck at making good design choices when using that mech.


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## TheMachanga (Jan 30, 2012)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> I hate to sound harsh, but V-cubes are smart enough to add bumps to the corners of a 5x5 to make it turn worse


Yeah, I still haven't been told why they did that on the 5x5, but not the 7x7. 



> design an anti-misalignment mechanism which clearly fails to prevent misalignment



They would have had to have altered the entire 6x6 mech to fix it. Remember that this was years ago, before it was such a big problem, that many people today try to solve.



> and not realise we like adjustable 5x5s, 6x6s and 7x7s. I commend them for the basic idea of the conical cuts which make for a good mech, but they suck at making good design choices when using that mech.



At the time, there were no other adjustable big cubes with springs. I guess they didn't see a reason. So they wouldn't know that we like adjustable 5x5's, 6x6's, and 7x7's, because there were no other adjustable ones, and there were no other 6x6's and 7x7's.


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## Godmil (Jan 30, 2012)

Also the main market is the general public, and like the rubik's brand they don't want those people playing with the cubes tensions and having it fall apart, or it coming loose by itself. A casual customer may not be impressed with a 7x7 coming apart in their hands.


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## qqwref (Jan 30, 2012)

TheMachanga said:


> They would have had to have altered the entire 6x6 mech to fix it. Remember that this was years ago, before it was such a big problem, that many people today try to solve.


I think I remember someone from Verdes (Konstantin?) saying that they knew a way to fix the misalignments at the time, but it would make different layers take different amounts of force to turn, and they wanted all the layers to be approximately the same to appeal to consumers.



TheMachanga said:


> At the time, there were no other adjustable big cubes with springs.


I think I remember there being an adjustable Mefferts 5x5 that some top people were using before the V5 came out. Not sure, though.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 30, 2012)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> I hate to sound harsh, but V-cubes are smart enough to add bumps to the corners of a 5x5 to make it turn worse, design an anti-misalignment mechanism which clearly fails to prevent misalignment, and not realise we like adjustable 5x5s, 6x6s and 7x7s. I commend them for the basic idea of the conical cuts which make for a good mech, but they suck at making good design choices when using that mech.


 
You forget that they have released a new model since their original cubes. I don't think anyone is downplaying the quality of the v2 for speedcubing.


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## Dene (Jan 31, 2012)

masterofthebass said:


> Are you sure about that assumption? I haven't seen any evidence that the pre-made are/aren't adjustable


 
hmm good point. I guess it was just implied, but will be interesting to find out. My order has been shipped so hopefully I'll know soon.


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## TimMc (Jan 31, 2012)

aronpm said:


> I can't comment on the price of the Rubik's Cube (although I believe it to be accurate) but your other prices are wrong. I can see a Dayan Zhanchi on Puzzle Addictions for USD$18.45 (free shipping) and the V-CUBE 3 is €14.99, which is roughly $18.50 *not including shipping*.



Apologies, I guess my quote on the V-CUBE 3 was a bit dodgy without including shipping.

I quoted lightake on the Zhan Chi price. I've only ever received them from Bao Daqing... The price of it could probably drop a bit but it's already a competitive price considering the competitors.

Hopefully someone imports the V-CUBE 3 in bulk into Australia and distributes the shipping cost so that the RRP is closer to US$20 on shelves here...

Tim.


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## radmin (Jan 31, 2012)

I also got a notice from UPS. The tracking number still isn't active yet. The initial email said it will arrive 2-3-2012.


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## MrRubiksUFO (Jan 31, 2012)

Got mine, pillowed version


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## Godmil (Jan 31, 2012)

MrRubiksUFO said:


> Got mine, pillowed version



If it was pre-assembled, does it have adjustable screws?


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## MrRubiksUFO (Jan 31, 2012)

Godmil said:


> If it was pre-assembled, does it have adjustable screws?


 
Yeah.


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## mocenigo (Jan 31, 2012)

BrainOfSweden said:


> I bet this is going to be the Mac of 3x3's. It looks awesome, but it costs more than twice of a cube that performs better. Also, it doesn't really perform well, and is incompatible with regular spare parts. And every other 3x3 manufacturer will be sued for making a cube with straight edges and corners -.-' Dammit Verdes, stick to large cubes.


 
(I have never seen a mac that costs more than twice of something else that performs better. But I guess we should leave these silly comments outside a forum that is devoted to cubing.)

On a more relevant note, if the 2x2x2 is any indication, Verdes probably does not care much about extreme corner cutting. I do not see deeply cut, rounded corners in the cubies in the pictures of the 3x3x3. It will probably turn very well (like the 2x2x2) but if you want crazy reverse corner cutting you have to go somewhere else.

Roberto


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## mocenigo (Jan 31, 2012)

souljahsu said:


> The pieces look suspiciously similar to those of the Guhong. I'm hoping that Dayan will sue them back and won't be getting these for myself.


 
Well, we know that they reached an agreement and then that legal action stopped. Maybe the v-cube 3 is the result of this.

Roberto


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## coldplay (Jan 31, 2012)

Yay, there's a cubic version 

It will be interesting to see how it turns. I'm probably going to order one tonight (black, non-pillowed). Still, there's no reason to throw out my perfectly good ZhanChi and Type F3 just because this has come out. But we may be surprised like we were with the V2.

Whatever happens, it should be fairly decent, at the least.



TheMachanga said:


> Yeah, I still haven't been told why they did that on the 5x5, but not the 7x7.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well, currently, *today*, Verdes Innovations S.A.'s cube tech (besides their 2x2x2 and the new 3x3x3) is severely outdated. I think they should do a complete overhaul of their big cube line with adjustable screws, a mech that turns better and a anti-misalignment system that works better than their current system.

But then, there will be some terribly protracted delay that accompanies the cube's facelift, and we still don't have a V-Cube 4, 8, or 11 yet.


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## Godmil (Jan 31, 2012)

coldplay said:


> I think they should do a complete overhaul of their big cube line with adjustable screws, a mech that turns better and a anti-misalignment system that works better than their current system.



I'm happy with my V-cube 5 and 7... the only thing I'd like to change about them is the screws... but since they're releasing adjustable core sets then that's that taken care of.


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## coldplay (Jan 31, 2012)

Godmil said:


> I'm happy with my V-cube 5 and 7... the only thing I'd like to change about them is the screws... but since they're releasing adjustable core sets then that's that taken care of.


 
Are you sure? I believed that was just a rumor... In that case, then there isn't a real need for any of the other stuff I posted up (they can always add that stuff later and it's not a complete necessity).

But where did you see that Verdes was, in fact going to release adjustable cores?


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## Godmil (Jan 31, 2012)

coldplay said:


> Are you sure? I believed that was just a rumor...



There is a video showing bags of them in this thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?35015-V-cubes-5-7-now-adjustable
Still no offical word though, but they'd have to release them.


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## coldplay (Jan 31, 2012)

Godmil said:


> There is a video showing bags of them in this thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?35015-V-cubes-5-7-now-adjustable
> Still no offical word though, but they'd have to release them.


 
That's cool. I'll probably either buy the new adjustable cores or wait until they start including them with their preassembled cubes.


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## Dene (Jan 31, 2012)

MrRubiksUFO said:


> Yeah.


 
Just to confirm, did you actually try turning the screws to make sure they aren't rivets?


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## peedu (Jan 31, 2012)

qqwref said:


> Speaking of that thread, this post was amusing in hindsight:
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...t-Infringement&p=507985&viewfull=1#post507985



I used some copyrighted sentences and patented combination of words. I hope they won't come after me.


Peedu


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## chewbacca1229 (Feb 1, 2012)

Must admit great shipping speed by v-cubes mine shipped today and it is scheduled to arrive tmrw and i am in new york. Great job verdes. It has been 4 days since my order.


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## bluecloe45 (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't see Vcubes making a better 3x3/4x4 than there already are.


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## rubiksarlen (Feb 1, 2012)

MrRubiksUFO said:


> Got mine, pillowed version



Can you please do a video of it?


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## Mollerz (Feb 1, 2012)

Mine arrived, cuts about 30º, reverse cuts about 5º. I can't take the centre caps off so I'm not going to. I'll do a large average and then post an impressions and comparison video later today.

EDIT: Doing this average makes me want to not cube anymore. Don't expect a video, it's an average cube at best.


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## TimMc (Feb 1, 2012)

Yttrium said:


> EDIT: Doing this average makes me want to not cube anymore. Don't expect a video, it's an average cube at best.



Your average is now so awesome that you fail to see the point in cubing any more? Nice. I want one!

Tim.


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## aronpm (Feb 1, 2012)

TimMc said:


> Your average is now so awesome that you fail to see the point in cubing any more? Nice. I want one!
> 
> Tim.


I think it's the opposite actually.

Aron.


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## Muesli (Feb 1, 2012)

Yttrium said:


> Don't expect a video,


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## GeoSpeedcuber (Feb 1, 2012)

see this video guys 
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?35166-V-Cube-3-First-Impressions-Review


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## timelonade (Feb 1, 2012)

Geospeedcuber, I really enjoyed your review, thanks for taking the time to make it


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## Bapao (Feb 1, 2012)

GeoSpeedcuber said:


> see this video guys
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?35166-V-Cube-3-First-Impressions-Review


 


Good vid on a what seems to be a mediocre cube btw....
Still need to get mine before I can go all out on whining about it though.


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## GeoSpeedcuber (Feb 1, 2012)

It's not my video  I only posted the first reviw which I found on youtube


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## Kirjava (Feb 2, 2012)

Seems like an assload of plastic inside that thing.


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## Michael Womack (Feb 5, 2012)

*Is the V-CUBE 3X3 a KO Dayan 3X3?*

Here is a video that I made about this and sorry about it being a long video.






The patent photos http://www.v-cubes.com/pdf/European_patent.pdf

Also this video has some other evidence.


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## emolover (Feb 5, 2012)

Not at freakin all.


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## Jaycee (Feb 5, 2012)

Nope. I've just heard the edge pieces are somewhat similar to a Guhong, and that doesn't make it a knockoff.


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## Kirjava (Feb 5, 2012)

They copied the torpz, that's all. I wouldn't call it a 'knock-off'.

The current definition of 'knock off' seems to apply to anything other than V-Cube and Rubik's brands.


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## MaeLSTRoM (Feb 5, 2012)

The original V-3 patent design looks similar to a V-5 with bandaging. 
To see this, treat the outer 2 layers as 1 and look at those pieces after disassembly. (Corner+3 adjacent wings+xcentre->corner, midge&+centres->edge, centre->centre)
The v-3 design that is out looks like a post-reduction 5x5, so tredges->edge, corner->corner, centres->centre.
Same type of design, but different bandaging of a 5x5.
Still valid, not KO.


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## Michael Womack (Feb 5, 2012)

MaeLSTRoM said:


> The original V-3 patent design looks similar to a V-5 with bandaging.
> To see this, treat the outer 2 layers as 1 and look at those pieces after disassembly. (Corner+3 adjacent wings+xcentre->corner, midge&+centres->edge, centre->centre)
> The v-3 design that is out looks like a post-reduction 5x5, so tredges->edge, corner->corner, centres->centre.
> Same type of design, but different bandaging of a 5x5.
> Still valid, not KO.


 
watch the video at 13 min


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## masterofthebass (Feb 5, 2012)

Why the hell can't people understand that the images in the patent are completely irrelevant. Please stop comparing a finished product to a theoretical mockup done 7+ years earlier.


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## Godmil (Feb 5, 2012)

Has anyone got a new v-cube with torpedoes? I'm wondering if they pulled them after the hubbub.


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## Kirjava (Feb 6, 2012)

I like that all the speedcubers I know are trying to get hold of Guhong2 instead of VCube.


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## Cheese11 (Feb 6, 2012)

Godmil said:


> Has anyone got a new v-cube with torpedoes? I'm wondering if they pulled them after the hubbub.


 
MM&P got his with torps


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## Stefan (Feb 6, 2012)

masterofthebass said:


> Why the hell can't people understand that the images in the patent are completely irrelevant.


 
It annoys me as well that almost everybody is just pointing out the images and ignoring the text, but I wouldn't call the images "completely irrelevant". They do show how Verdes apparently envisioned the V-3 or how they chose to present it to demonstrate how "unified" their different size cubes are, which they emphasized in the patent. While both those images and the actual V-3 do fit the patent claims text(*) and while having a patent doesn't mean that you must follow it but that others must not, changing your parameters drastically so it looks like another cube does give the impression that you copied the parameters from the other cube and that you're a hypocrite if you lamented about copying yourself. Of course maybe Verdes came up with the new parameters on its own, but then again, maybe Dayan came up with the GuHong on its own as well. So Verdes shouldn't expect less criticism now than they handed out back then.

(*) except maybe for minor details, would have to check again


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## radmin (Feb 6, 2012)

My DIY's came with torpedoes. But one has broken already. If the cube were any good I'd try taking them out. When a torpedo broke I looked at the remaining ones. They wiggle in the slot. 

Here is my quick summary. The cube has potential but would require lots of modding. The corners are too square. When it locks it locks bad. It distorts and locks in a distorted position. 

My Black DIY was missing the screws, center caps and orange stickers. So far no reply from the company about getting replacements.


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## Dene (Feb 6, 2012)

radmin said:


> My Black DIY was missing the screws, center caps and orange stickers. So far no reply from the company about getting replacements.


 
As long as your contact with them was sensible (and in saying this I am not implying in any way that you may have been rude, but if someone were to be rude in such a manner they bring any repercussions on themselves) you should get that soon, but bear in mind how busy they must be at the moment.


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## qqwref (Feb 8, 2012)

Dene said:


> As long as your contact with them was sensible you should get that soon, but bear in mind how busy they must be at the moment.


Yeah, I hope so... I have not heard the best things about V-Cube's email responding service lately.


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## Pixel 6 (Feb 9, 2012)

Got mine today and laughed. 

It's a Black V3- NIB.

They require signatures on the UPS shipping, and missed the UPS guy 2 days in a row. Finally had to drive 30 miles to pick it up from the UPS will-call center. 

So, moving right into it. 

Center caps are glued down, and it's NOT adjustable. News to me. They should have put this info on their site. (DIY is adjustable) Edges, and corner pieces are glued together. (not a bad idea to some extent) The centers have uneven tensions that can not be adjusted now however. The screws (rivits?) are all set differently, which causes the core to be permenently off center... Like a Rubik's brand... You get what you get.

It was too tight, and I could not get an edge out... Until I found one of the two edges where they forgot to include the torpedos. Yep... two of the twelve torpedos missing... And the edges are glued together... So how can they fix this? Send me two torpedos? Nope.

Good parts. Stickers look great, were centered, and nice and large. Size and weight of the cube are what I'd expect a speedcube to be. Nice rounded external feel, no sharp edges.

Design flaws... Glued down center caps? Were these cubes made to compete with the empty spot next to a Rubik's brand in Wal-Mart? Price is right then...

Internal corner caps are recessed, which causes really bad lock-ups as the corners slide across the lip of the edges and center piece. Using Roux (method I use) M's lock on me a ton. When doing M's and U's it reminded me a lot of the Rubiks feel.

Also, they missed the purpose of the wings when they stole Dayan's torpedo design (yea, I said it). The wings are there to keep the torpedos stepped away from the edge, and keep the torpedos from constantly touching anything on the inside, be it a corner or an edge until there is a position on the cube (45°) that would cause a pop... Then the torpedos grab the corners on the inside keeping it from popping.

With all their research and development, they seemed to miss this. In the V3 the torpedos are in constant contact with the corner when turning 45°. And because their torpedos don't step off the edge far enough, the internal edge hits the adjacent torpedo on every turn. This results in constant clicking, and some lock-ups.

I found it amusing getting this cube in. I have hundreds of different types of puzzles in my personal collection... And this is the first time I've felt duped... (cube plus shipping to my home was around $35 USD) 

This cube would have had potential 2 years ago... But in comparison of the current market, swing and a miss.

I'm not sure wether to send it back for a refund, set it on fire for a ceremonious YouTube review, or put it on my mantle next to an ELITE for a good laugh now and then.

My advice? Save your money and buy an Alpha-Feng.

- Pixel -


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## CrazyBadCuber (Feb 9, 2012)

musicninja17 said:


> After talking to Konstantinos Verdes for quite some time at the MN competition last year, I really got a glimpse of his personality. He can be a nice guy on the surface, but if you say something that he doesn't necessarily agree with, he can be a dick. I think the whole using the torpedos thing is their way of sticking it to the "chinese companies"...I mean I'd be pissed off too if YJ pulled copyright infringement like that.
> 
> He talked about they actually had a physical run in at a certain toy fair that the both of them were attending and they had "YJ kicked out of the place". I have no clue what all is the true story; but it was just interesting to meet him in person. I went away with very mixed feelings for the Verdes family that day.
> 
> He is _*extremely*_ sensitive about the whole copyright thing. And i'm sure the little bit of language barrier doesn't help. I'm not even sure if he _is_ the main PR guy. And whoever it is needs to be fired. The posting on Facebook sounds so unprofessional.


 
I was the one he was talking to and YES it was Verdes himself making those dumb comments.

I think people were missing the point of what I was saying in my video that people have been passing around. I didn't say that V Cubes don't have the right to change the design as I've read the patent and I understand that it's the way the pieces hold onto each other and the basic way the puzzle acts. Of course they can change the way it looks. HOWEVER, why do all the other cubes they have put out look exactly like they do in the pictures in the patent. It's totally relevant that the V3 looks nothing like the patent. All the others do. So my point is this... they could have changed the way the V3 is sure.... but why to exactly the same as a guhong? Chance? Maybe... but highly doubtful. Same with the torpedo's. They would have to be really really oblivious to the speed cube community to not know about torpedo's. Give me a break. 

So yes, Dayan copied V Cubes but they made the V3 BETTER. Dayan took what was there and improved upon it to make a superior cube. V Cubes has the rights to this and I believe VERY strongly that V Cubes knew that their inferior design of the V3 wouldn't stand a chance against Dayan so they copied Dayan. So they are a rip off of each other. The Dayan is a knock off of V Cubes, but the new V3 design is a knock off of Dayans Guhong design. PLAIN. AND. SIMPLE. Buy a V3 and buy Guhong. Then study both cubes and look and read the patent front to back and tell me I'm wrong. They are both in the wrong. It doesn't matter that V Cubes have it patented. They didn't go with their original V3 design and took an improved version that somebody else has made.

People are completely missing the point of the video I made and turned it into me saying that Dayan made the design first. I never said that. People need to listen to what they are hearing. that's why I took the video off my channel and I don't know how it's still playing here when it's set to private. That video was half made to show people that the V3 is NOT V Cubes patented design and also to show how they treat people.

Thanks

Dan (CrazyBadCuber)


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## Meep (Feb 9, 2012)

CrazyBadCuber said:


> they could have changed the way the V3 is sure.... but why to exactly the same as a guhong?



Because DaYan copied V-Cubes with the GuHong (Group the wings with the edges instead of with the corner pieces, as if you were doing redux).



CrazyBadCuber said:


> They would have to be really really oblivious to the speed cube community to not know about torpedo's. Give me a break.



I'd imagine if my first language wasn't english, I wouldn't know what the heck a 'torpedo' in a cube would be. Whether I was in tune with the community or not, an 'anchor' would probably make more sense.



CrazyBadCuber said:


> It doesn't matter that V Cubes have it patented. They didn't go with their original V3 design and took an improved version that somebody else has made.



Legally it matters, and the pictures, like stated numerous times throughout, aren't representative of the original design. Even though the other ones look like the pictures, they likely went through many revisions before that, and had the same possibility of being modified. In the case of the V3, it was as if they bandaged a V5 like how we do our reduction, as opposed to the outer two layers being bandaged (like their pictures).



CrazyBadCuber said:


> People need to listen to what they are hearing.



I know, right?



CrazyBadCuber said:


> That video was half made to show people that the V3 is NOT V Cubes patented design



But it is!



CrazyBadCuber said:


> and also to show how they treat people.



This is probably the main valid point IMO.


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## andyfreeman (Feb 9, 2012)

Pixel 6 said:


> G
> It was too tight, and I could not get an edge out... Until I found one of the two edges where they forgot to include the torpedos. Yep... two of the twelve torpedos missing... And the edges are glued together... So how can they fix this? Send me two torpedos? Nope.
> 
> 
> - Pixel -


 
I've heard a lot of people say that there are torps missing. I suspect this is deliberate: so they can assemble it.


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## Godmil (Feb 9, 2012)

andyfreeman said:


> I've heard a lot of people say that there are torps missing. I suspect this is deliberate: so they can assemble it.


 
I can see that being true... I can also see that as being a really stupid decision.


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## Yes We Can! (Feb 9, 2012)

Just got mine.
A screw *broke* while I was turning it..........
That's some damn fine quality.


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## Eleredo (Feb 9, 2012)

Just another 3x3, oh god why. :fp There are already tons of good 3x3's. Why don't they just go ahead and make a 8x8 and 9x9. :confused:



Yes said:


> Just got mine.
> A screw *broke* while I was turning it..........
> That's some damn fine quality.


 
That's what I mean. They should leave the 3x3's to the cunning hands of the real masters such as Dayan. V-Cube should stay with bigger cubes, they're already known for that.


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## ThomasJE (Feb 9, 2012)

andyfreeman said:


> I've heard a lot of people say that there are torps missing. I suspect this is deliberate: so they can assemble it.


 
What could fix that? Oh, screws! Adjustable screws!
It's pretty obvious, so why not put them in the pre-assembled version? This just shows that they should stick to what they do best - big cubes. I can't see them making a 4x4 that rivals Shengshou and Dayan+MF8.


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## andyfreeman (Feb 9, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> What could fix that? Oh, screws! Adjustable screws!
> It's pretty obvious, so why not put them in the pre-assembled version?


 
From a production engineer's point of view, assuming they are riveted or are screws set to a set distance, easy of assembly = faster production time = higher hourly yield = more money. If those are rivets then they could assembly cores extremely quickly.


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## CrazyBadCuber (Feb 9, 2012)

Meep said:


> Legally it matters, and the pictures, like stated numerous times throughout, aren't representative of the original design. Even though the other ones look like the pictures, they likely went through many revisions before that, and had the same possibility of being modified. In the case of the V3, it was as if they bandaged a V5 like how we do our reduction, as opposed to the outer two layers being bandaged (like their pictures).



I'm not talking about legal issues here. I'm talking about what is done. Are you telling me that if Dayan didn't make any kind of cube that V Cubes would have revised their original design and it STILL would have ended up looking exactly like a guhong, torpedo's and all? I seriously doubt it. I'm sure they would have gone with their original design JUST like all the other cubes have been. Dayan copied V Cubes, I NEVER said they didn't, but you have to admit, they also copied the Guhong. It doesn't matter if English is not their first language. I've talked to Verdes personally about this matter and trust me, he speaks English just fine! lol. Do you really think that a cube company of this magnitude would not watch some YouTube video's and would not listen to what other people say about other cubes. How the hell would they have torpedo's in their cubes without ever hearing about them? 

I understand your probably a V Cubes fanboy/girl and would support them to death, but there comes a point where you might have to sit back and take a look at the reality. That reality would be in front of you if you take a V3 and a Guhong, pull the pieces out and use your eyeballs. Thanks.


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## ThomasJE (Feb 9, 2012)

andyfreeman said:


> From a production engineer's point of view, assuming they are riveted or are screws set to a set distance, easy of assembly = faster production time = higher hourly yield = more money. If those are rivets then they could assembly cores extremely quickly.


 
So because they have to bother with assembling the cube, they make it worse? They should just make it cost more. And anyway, do they think it will be the fastest selling cube ever? After all this, I seriously doubt it. It won't. V-Cubes are only good after hours of modding. This makes them as bad as Seven Towns. I'll be getting Shengshou 5x5's and 6x6's.


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## amostay2004 (Feb 9, 2012)

From all the comments it seems like V-Cubes failed even more than I expected them to with the V3. Definitely staying away from this one.


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## andyfreeman (Feb 9, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> So because they have to bother with assembling the cube, they make it worse? .


 
Given the really other bad quality issues like the inserts in the corners not fitting very well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L9TzIQWFvk

Then it appears so.

You'll be surprised what companies do and think people will put up with and do to save time and ultimately money.

Having said that, looking at Jono's mod vid he has a cube with 6 or 7 out of the 12 possible torps, so it looks like it could just be poor QC.


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## Dene (Feb 9, 2012)

CrazyBadCuber said:


> I'm not talking about legal issues here. I'm talking about what is done. Are you telling me that if Dayan didn't make any kind of cube that V Cubes would have revised their original design and it STILL would have ended up looking exactly like a guhong, torpedo's and all? I seriously doubt it. I'm sure they would have gone with their original design JUST like all the other cubes have been. Dayan copied V Cubes, I NEVER said they didn't, but you have to admit, they also copied the Guhong. It doesn't matter if English is not their first language. I've talked to Verdes personally about this matter and trust me, he speaks English just fine! lol. Do you really think that a cube company of this magnitude would not watch some YouTube video's and would not listen to what other people say about other cubes. How the hell would they have torpedo's in their cubes without ever hearing about them?
> 
> I understand your probably a V Cubes fanboy/girl and would support them to death, but there comes a point where you might have to sit back and take a look at the reality. That reality would be in front of you if you take a V3 and a Guhong, pull the pieces out and use your eyeballs. Thanks.


 
Perhaps you should use your eyeballs and take a look at a bandaged 5x5, like meep told you to.


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## ZephyLynx (Feb 10, 2012)

Hi, first time posting, but long time lurker. Normally, I'm too lazy to post, but this cube got me so riled up, that I felt like I had to post. I just received my V3's a few days ago. I got a black assembled, and a black DIY, both the cubic form. I'd have to put it right next to the Gans II as one of the worst cubes I have ever gotten (and most expensive as well, $65 USD for two 3x3x3 cubes including shipping). 


Assembled version:

Right off the bat, 2 edge pieces were stuck to center pieces. I had to exert a lot of force to break the bond. I had to sand off the glue/lube or whatever stuck the pieces together to make it smooth.

While the center caps were not glued on, it did take me tremendous effort to pry off the caps. After taking the caps off, I found out that 3 of the 6 "screws" were rivets, thus I could only tension half of the cube. The centers with rivets are also unevenly tensioned. 

Of the 12 edge pieces, only 7 of them came with anchors (torpedoes). I noticed some small pieces of excess plastic, probably from the molding. So I took a few of the edge pieces apart to sand down the excess plastic. During this process, 2 of the anchor pieces broke. So now I only have 5 of 12 anchors in my cube. 

While I did not have any defects with the corners, I noticed a pretty bad design flaw. The cavity, which the corner caps fit in, are not well designed. The caps fit in, but go in too far, in the sense that the lip of the corner piece is not flush with the edge piece. This means that the edge of the corner piece is sharp. 

After lubing with Lubix and re-assembling, I did about 100 solves on it. Since the tensions of the cube are not even, it feels awkward solving it. I get a sense of unbalance with it, which is uncomfortable to me. The cube is pretty clicky/bumpy and locks up quite a bit. It can cut around 1 cubie for the faces that I could tension, but only about 2/3 - 3/4 of a cubie for the riveted faces. It has essentially no reverse cutting (maybe a few degrees at most). The bumpiness is not a nice even feeling like the Alpha II, but it almost feels random. The speed is decent, nothing to write home about. However, due to the lack of all the anchors, the cube pops, not all the time, but enough to be very annoying. I got a pop about 1 every 10 solves or so. 


DIY version:

It came with all the parts and a few extras:
- 2 cores
- 6 center pieces
- 6 center caps
- 12 edge pieces
- 12 anchors (torpedoes)
- 23 springs (6 of each strength and 5 extra)
- 8 screws
- 2 sets of stickers

There was a little bit excess plastic on a few pieces, which I sanded down with no problem. I lubed it with the Lubix technique (screw head/spring, core, and a few drops on the pieces). I used the medium springs. I put all the anchors in and assembled. After applying some CubeSmith stickers (I prefer them over pretty much all other types), I did 100 solves. 

The DIY felt much better than the assembled version. However, it was not good enough for me to justify the steep price. The DIY performs better than a store bought Rubik's Cube, but it is not on the same level as the Dayan, Alpha, or ShengEn cubes. Since I could tension all the sides on this cube, it can cut about 1 cubie on each side. There is still no reverse cutting, though. It still feels bumpy, but a more even bumpiness. It locks up a bit less, but still pops a bit. Despite the blatant copy of Dayan's anchors, they don't work very well. I got about 1 pop every 15 or 20 solves. 

Here is my thought on the drama surrounding the copyright issue. I don't really care about copying designs. Most designs of anything is usually a copied and refined from something else. The keyword here is *refined*. Look at Alpha. The A1 is basically a smaller Rubik's DIY, with slightly rounded edges. However, each Alpha cube is refined for the purpose of making it better. Not all designs worked, but the process can be seen. This is the same with the Dayan cubes. One may say, "well, the V3 is the first of its type though." However, the V3 looks pretty much like a GuHong beta version or something. The pieces' shapes are pretty much exactly like a GuHong's, but with sharper edges and corners. Clearly, the anchor pieces are copied from Dayan. However, instead of refining the anchors, it seems like they made them worse. They don't work as well and are flimsy and easy to break. Regardless of copyright issues, V-cube must have been aware of the refined designs of its competitors. Even if the V3 was the original V-cube design, which I think is highly unlikely, there is absolutely no point in releasing a cube that is an inferior version of someone's "copy." V-cube had a lot of innovation at first, but then just slowed down/stopped. While Dayan, Alpha, and ShengShou were making more puzzles and refining older versions, V-Cube was sitting there, twiddling their thumbs and releasing things like the Dazzler, Illusion, and Flag cubes (which are just color/sticker variations). 

*tl;dr*
There is no point in purchasing a V3 when there you can get a better performing cube (Alpha V, GuHong II, LinYun II, ZhanChi, etc.. ) for much cheaper and higher consistent quality.


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## coldplay (Feb 10, 2012)

What on earth has happened here? It seems like there's a LOT of argument going on – Let's break it down.

DaYan did take some inspiration from the V-5 edge design – it's pretty obvious. But that was pretty much the only thing that they did "steal" from V-Cube. The V-5 corner piece isn't that similar to the GuHong's corner design. The corner on the V-5 is basically a regular Rubik's style corner that's been extended (as Thrawst would put it, a cube on a stick), whereas the DaYan corner is more rounded and sculpted. Also, the anchor is very unique and doesn't look like the Rubik's style anchor on the V-5. 

It's true that DaYan's edge looks similar, and they did "copy" it, but what DaYan has done is really take the best elements from every cube and combine them to make their amazing 3x3x3s. Some people think that DaYan is a cheap-o Chinese ripoff manufacturer that makes flimsy ripoffs. The general public thinks so; it's pretty apparent when Seven Towns ordered the seizure of a shipment of DaYans in Germany, and then say that DaYan's are illegitimate knockoffs (when the patent for the 3x3x3 expired YEARS ago). But DaYan doesn't do that. They've advanced cube tech extremely and made possible so much more. DaYan has done something completely different –they've refined 3x3x3s to a level where others simply can't compete. They've had a lot of insight into 3x3x3 development, and their design has reached a point where cubes just can't get much better than how they are right now.

tl;dr – DaYan's are still the best in the business, while the V-Cube 3 is a disappointment. 'Nuff said.


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 10, 2012)

coldplay said:


> it's pretty apparent when *Seven Towns ordered the seizure of a shipment of DaYans in Germany*, and then say that DaYan's are illegitimate knockoffs (when the patent for the 3x3x3 expired YEARS ago).


 
Do you have any source on that? I haven't read anything indicating that the seizure in Germany is ordered by Seven Towns, and that the confiscated cubes are DaYans.


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## TheCuberboy1996 (Feb 11, 2012)

Just ordered mine in white, 63 zlotys.


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## CubeAddct (Feb 11, 2012)

Here's a video of the unboxing and first impression of the v-cube 3. I'm going to post a full review of the cube soon. Probably tomorrow. If you want to see how it works, check it out!


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## coldplay (Feb 12, 2012)

daniel0731ex said:


> Do you have any source on that? I haven't read anything indicating that the seizure in Germany is ordered by Seven Towns, and that the confiscated cubes are DaYans.


 
I'm not completely sure if they were DaYans, but I know Seven Towns was involved. To be honest, I really wouldn't be surprised if the seized cubes were DaYans, considering how popular they've become.


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## aronpm (Feb 12, 2012)

coldplay said:


> *I'm not completely sure if they were DaYans, but I know Seven Towns was involved. *To be honest, I really wouldn't be surprised if the seized cubes were DaYans, considering how popular they've become.


In that case, stop making stuff up. Please. Stop bringing dumb assumptions into this discussion.


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## coldplay (Feb 13, 2012)

aronpm said:


> In that case, stop making stuff up. Please. Stop bringing dumb assumptions into this discussion.



It's not a dumb assumption. Please read my entire post before criticizing it. This issue is more important than me making a mistake.

There's really no way that we, the speed cubing community can stop Seven Towns if they decide to declare speed cubes illegal. Everyone here has, at some time, owned a store-bought. But we don't use them. Unlike Verdes, which *will* suffer if we don't buy their cubes, there's nothing stopping Seven Towns from destroying the speed cubing community because 90% of their revenue comes from non-cubers. That other 10% are us, the speed cubing community, because, face it – everybody starts with a store-bought, whether we want to or not.

So Seven Towns will still be perfectly happy if speed cubes are illegal. They don't even get any money from us anyway. We can't boycott them...

If Seven Fails does go along with this, eventually people will find out that this is a corrupt maneuver and the 3x3x3 patent expired years ago, and speed cubes will have to be legal again. But it may be months, maybe a few years before it comes out, because we, as a speed cubing community aren't that large.

Yes, it is a complex dilemma... We need to find a way to protect DaYan, GuoJia, ShengEn, etc. before Seven Towns gets to them.



Anyway, back to topic, I've heard that the "torpedoes" on the V-3 can break off inside the cube, and I've also heard that they don't do anything to prevent pops because they aren't a torpedo shape, and they aren't long enough.


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## qqwref (Feb 13, 2012)

I think it's clear that boycotting Seven Towns won't actually do anything since none of us buy their cubes anyway.

HOWEVER. If you want to actually make some change, get the word out. Have someone write up a notice that SevenTowns is doing serious damage to the very speedcubing community that they use for advertising, and that they are just using their trademark to bully the higher-quality Chinese cube companies. Then, have a lot of cubers spread it on facebook, twitter, blogs, etc. People are pretty anti-corporation these days, and something like this could actually have an impact. If nothing else, we could get a bunch of non-cubers to consider buying a Chinese cube or a V-Cube instead of an Official Rubik's Cube®.


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## aronpm (Feb 13, 2012)

coldplay said:


> It's not a dumb assumption. Please read my entire post before criticizing it. This issue is more important than me making a mistake.


Yes, it was. You said "it's pretty apparent when Seven Towns ordered the seizure of a shipment of DaYans in Germany, and then say that DaYan's are illegitimate knockoffs". You stated this *as a fact*. If you did not intend to, you should learn to say what you mean correctly.



> There's really no way that we, the speed cubing community can stop Seven Towns if they decide to declare speed cubes illegal. Everyone here has, at some time, owned a store-bought. But we don't use them. Unlike Verdes, which *will* suffer if we don't buy their cubes, there's nothing stopping Seven Towns from destroying the speed cubing community because 90% of their revenue comes from non-cubers. That other 10% are us, the speed cubing community, because, face it – everybody starts with a store-bought, whether we want to or not.


Nice made up numbers, those are very far off.



> They don't even get any money from us anyway.


DYK: Seven Towns sponsors competitions? Do you know why they do this? Because it gives them exposure. When competitions are advertised or reported they aren't "Magic Cubic Puzzle Competitions" they are "Rubik's Cube Competitions". Exposure drives sales. Seven Towns aren't stupid; if they didn't get enough sales from competition exposure they wouldn't do it.



> If Seven Fails does go along with this, eventually people will find out that this is a corrupt maneuver and the 3x3x3 patent expired years ago, and speed cubes will have to be legal again. But it may be months, maybe a few years before it comes out, because we, as a speed cubing community aren't that large.


Seven Towns does not have the ability to declare "all magic 3x3 cube designs are illegal". They can _claim_ it. Whether or not a cube is illegal actually depends on intellectual property and that isn't going to change just because Seven Towns says so and then change again because a cuber says so.



> Yes, it is a complex dilemma... We need to find a way to protect DaYan, GuoJia, ShengEn, etc. before Seven Towns gets to them.


You people need to stop making Seven Towns out to be some sort of evil monster. Seriously.


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## Michael Womack (Feb 13, 2012)

qqwref said:


> I think it's clear that boycotting Seven Towns won't actually do anything since *NONE* of us buy their cubes anyway.
> 
> HOWEVER. If you want to actually make some change, get the word out. Have someone write up a notice that SevenTowns is doing serious damage to the very speedcubing community that they use for advertising, and that they are just using their trademark to bully the higher-quality Chinese cube companies. Then, have a lot of cubers spread it on facebook, twitter, blogs, etc. People are pretty anti-corporation these days, and something like this could actually have an impact. If nothing else, we could get a bunch of non-cubers to consider buying a Chinese cube or a V-Cube instead of an Official Rubik's Cube®.


 
Rethink about what you said was the first 3x3 you owned a Rubiks brand or Dayan brand


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## aronpm (Feb 13, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> Rethink about what you said was the first 3x3 you owned a Rubiks brand or Dayan brand


 
Neither, it was a dollar cube (aka generic Chinese cube) from eBay (for me).

Even if cubers own Seven Town products, that money is already spent. They already have it. Boycotting them won't do anything if you weren't going to be buying from them anyway.

On the other hand, if you are making people purchase Chinese brand, then yes, it is a loss of sale, but only if they were planning to buy a Rubik's brand cube and you changed their mind.


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## coldplay (Feb 13, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> Rethink about what you said was the first 3x3 you owned a Rubiks brand or Dayan brand


 
After you learn to solve the cube, are you really going to go back to Walmart and buy another Rubik's brand cube? No, you're going to Speedcubeshop and buying an AV. It's pretty simple logic.


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## Michael Womack (Feb 13, 2012)

coldplay said:


> After you learn to solve the cube, are you really going to go back to Walmart and buy another Rubik's brand cube? No, you're going to Speedcubeshop and buying an AV. It's pretty simple logic.


 
you would go and get one just to make a fisher cube or something else from them


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## coldplay (Feb 13, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> you would go and get one just to make a fisher cube or something else from them


 
Well maybe, but how often is that going to be? Maybe once or twice. I don't even make custom puzzles from Rubik's brand cubes anyway.


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## Michael Womack (Feb 13, 2012)

coldplay said:


> Well maybe, but how often is that going to be? Maybe once or twice. I don't even make custom puzzles from Rubik's brand cubes anyway.


 
still if you are then the Rubik's brand would be the best choice


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## aronpm (Feb 13, 2012)

coldplay said:


> I'm done wasting my time with you. I've had enough. You can critique my posts all you want, but nobody is going to care. And neither am I.


 
You've complained before about people "critiquing posts" before. I think you misunderstand the difference between arguing against what somebody has said and critiquing. If you are not able to accept people arguing against things which you have said you should not post. Good luck with the Internet.

What I said about Seven Towns sponsoring competitions _was_ relevant; you said that they don't make money off us and this is just not true.


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## coldplay (Feb 13, 2012)

aronpm said:


> You've complained before about people "critiquing posts" before. I think you misunderstand the difference between arguing against what somebody has said and critiquing. If you are not able to accept people arguing against things which you have said you should not post. Good luck with the Internet.
> 
> What I said about Seven Towns sponsoring competitions _was_ relevant; you said that they don't make money off us and this is just not true.


 
It's the way you argue that irks me. Instead of debating the subject, you make it personal. Such as when you said "dumb assumptions". There was clearly no need to say dumb. Even if you weren't implying anything, it made it seem like you dislike me on a personal level.

Anyway, what I was saying was, they don't make money off of us buying their cubes. I know they sponsor our competitions, but do we buy Rubik's brand cubes for speed cubing? No, we really don't. That's why boycotting them really won't do anything. We need them to sponsor our competitions, so we have to let them do what they want. And on top of that, we don't even buy their cubes anyway.

So yeah. That's the problem.


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## Michael Womack (Feb 13, 2012)

coldplay said:


> It's the way you argue that irks me. Instead of debating the subject, you make it personal. Such as when you said "dumb assumptions". There was clearly no need to say dumb. Even if you weren't implying anything, it made it seem like you dislike me on a personal level.
> 
> Anyway, what I was saying was, they don't make money off of us buying their cubes. I know they sponsor our competitions, but do we buy Rubik's brand cubes for speed cubing? No, we really don't. That's why boycotting them really won't do anything. We need them to sponsor our competitions, so we have to let them do what they want. And on top of that, we don't even buy their cubes anyway.
> 
> So yeah. That's the problem.


 
I know away to make a brand new Rubik's 3x3 to be close to being good as a dayan 3x3


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## ThomasJE (Feb 13, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> I know away to make a brand new Rubik's 3x3 to be close to being good as a dayan 3x3


 
A Rubik's 3x3 has a lot of potential because it is the worst cube out of the box EVER. You can't improve a Dayan *as much* because it's amazing out of the box. You can't do many very significant mods with a Dayan (maybe 2 or 3), but with a Rubik's, you can:
Sand cubies down
Change the core to an adjustable one (I hope I spelt adjustable right)
Lubricate it
Some smaller mods
And probably more I can't think of.
And what is your way out of curiosity? I could make my old storebought a little better.


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## Michael Womack (Feb 13, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> A Rubik's 3x3 has a lot of potential because it is the worst cube out of the box EVER. You can't improve a Dayan *as much* because it's amazing out of the box. You can't do many very significant mods with a Dayan (maybe 2 or 3), but with a Rubik's, you can:
> Sand cubies down
> Change the core to an adjustable one (I hope I spelt adjustable right)
> Lubricate it
> ...


 
nope simpler just do this and after that lube it


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## Muesli (Feb 13, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> I know away to make a brand new Rubik's 3x3 to be close to being good as a dayan 3x3


 
You must have a really bad Dayan.


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## Michael Womack (Feb 13, 2012)

Muesli said:


> You must have a really bad Dayan.


 
i dont


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## qqwref (Feb 13, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> Rethink about what you said was the first 3x3 you owned a Rubiks brand or Dayan brand


When I started cubing, Rubik's was the only cube you could buy. Dayan simply didn't exist. Even when the Rubik's DIYs were available (the only DIYs at the time, BTW) the cubes were pretty bad and required a lot of working in. If better cubes were available at the time, I would've bought those for sure (since I lurked the cubing community at the time).


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## Michael Womack (Feb 13, 2012)

qqwref said:


> When I started cubing, Rubik's was the only cube you could buy. Dayan simply didn't exist. Even when the Rubik's DIYs were available (the only DIYs at the time, BTW) the cubes were pretty bad and required a lot of working in. If better cubes were available at the time, I would've bought those for sure (since I lurked the cubing community at the time).


 
i started back in 2007 you could get crappy ceap cubes rubiks brand type a c4u and some others


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## fumador (Feb 14, 2012)

Hope to see any speedsolve comparison video...


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## qqwref (Feb 15, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> i started back in 2007 you could get crappy ceap cubes rubiks brand type a c4u and some others


Good for you? I remember when the first non-Rubik's DIYs started to become available online.


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## andyfreeman (Feb 15, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> nope simpler just do this and after that lube it
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


 
I've only had a few minutes to watch it as I need to go to work, but so far it seems to me that, a few minutes in, you are giving those cuts a tiny little help with your left index finger?

Even then though, it seems a lot smoother than mine just turning it, might give it a shot when I get back from work. Cheers for posting.


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## ZincK_NOVA (Feb 21, 2012)

coldplay said:


> face it – everybody starts with a store-bought, whether we want to or not.



I just want to point out that I didn't start with a Rubik's brand (and I wasn't told by anyone not to buy them; just got hold of a cheap ghost hand clone because it was cheap).
Furthermore, everybody I have influenced into cubing (I would say speed solving but... they're slow) usually listens to me when I tell them to buy a guhong DIY kit because it is cheaper and better. I would hope that I'm not the only person who's done this.
I'm not trying to start an argument, I just thought it might be news to you that not everybody starts with a "store-bought".


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## Michael Womack (Feb 21, 2012)

coldplay said:


> face it – everybody starts with a store-bought, whether we want to or not.


 
not unless you get a friend into cubing and give them a cheap DIANSHING 3x3


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