# Hardest Scramble ever?



## Felicko (Dec 30, 2010)

I searched it up on google and got this: 
F , U , F2 , D , B , U , R , F , L , D , R , U , L , U , B , D2 , R , F , U2 , D2
But I was wondering is it actually the hardest? Would it be harder if you repeated it on a cube?


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## cyoubx (Dec 30, 2010)

There is no "hardest" scramble. There are hardER scrambles, and even then, it's circumstantial. Depending on the method used, a scramble could be easy for one person, and difficult for another.


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## Shortey (Dec 30, 2010)

It's definetely not the hardest. I got 9.08.


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## a small kitten (Dec 30, 2010)

ZZ has some pretty bad ones if you have fixed orientations. 12 wrong edges is nasty.


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## Rinfiyks (Dec 30, 2010)

I got 26.34, slightly faster than average. And I'm not warmed up. The worst scramble for Fridrich would be an obvious but long cross that leads into an obvious but long F2L that leads into the worst OLL/PLL combo.


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## DeathCuberK (Dec 30, 2010)

Used your scramble, got 17.11, which is faster than average for me.

F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
(I think you forgot the prime symbols)


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## Felicko (Dec 30, 2010)

DeathCuberK said:


> Used your scramble, got 17.11, which is faster than average for me.
> 
> F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
> (I think you forgot the prime symbols)


 
Yeah, I think the prime symbols got left out...


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## masteranders1 (Dec 30, 2010)

Yeah, I got 19.69.


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## Ranzha (Dec 30, 2010)

Felicko said:


> I searched it up on google and got this:
> F , U , F2 , D , B , U , R , F , L , D , R , U , L , U , B , D2 , R , F , U2 , D2
> But I was wondering is it actually the hardest? Would it be harder if you repeated it on a cube?


 
Erm, from what you posted, try green cross. Lolpairs.

z2
U l' U F' R F U x2
y' R U R' y2 R U2 R' U y R U' R' U
y' (R U' R') U
y' (R U' R') U'
y' (R U' R') U
Antisune
U2 F-perm

14.62 seconds, where I average high 18.


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## Cyrus C. (Dec 30, 2010)

What website did you get that scramble from? I'd like to see their proof.


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## Rinfiyks (Dec 30, 2010)

Cyrus C. said:


> What website did you get that scramble from? I'd like to see their proof.


 
http://cube20.org/

It really is the hardest scramble. I had a pop and couldn't find a corner piece for 3 minutes.


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## Felicko (Dec 30, 2010)

Cyrus C. said:


> What website did you get that scramble from? I'd like to see their proof.


 
This one:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/God-s-Number-for-Rubik-s-Cube-Established-151749.shtml

(the alg is at the bottom)


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## Sa967St (Dec 30, 2010)

Superflip + M2E2S2 is pretty bad.


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## Johan444 (Dec 30, 2010)

OLL skip + H perm


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## somerandomkidmike (Dec 30, 2010)

I just got my fastest single solve (lucky) with this. 8.97 seconds. I skipped R-Layer corners. I


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## Ranzha (Dec 30, 2010)

Sa967St said:


> Superflip + M2E2S2 is pretty bad.


 
y z2'
U M' U M U2 M U2 M'
U2 y' M' U2 M2 U' M' U'
M' U' M U2 M' U' M
(This is where is gets bad)
z M' U M' U M' U M' U'
R U R' U' r' U2 R U R U' R2' U2' r U2
M S2 M S2.
Edit: 17.00.


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## Rinfiyks (Dec 30, 2010)

DeathCuberK said:


> F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2


Cross: z2 F' R' y2 F' R' y R' D'
F2L 1: U2 R' U R U' y L U L'
F2L 2: R' U R U L' U' L
F2L 3: R U2 R' U y L' U' L
F2L 4: U2 R U R' U2 R U' R'
OELL: U R' U' F' U F R
OCLL: U R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R
PLL: U' R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L
65 HTM


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## BigSams (Dec 30, 2010)

a small kitten said:


> ZZ has some pretty bad ones if you have fixed orientations. *12 wrong edges is nasty*.


 
Not really, I just intuitively do F B D R L' F2 U2 B every time (you do the last of the 4-4-4 on B so that you can have a clear look ahead for Line) and then do a Line which should be like a few fast flicks. Doing a set alg for the 12 bad case EO followed by an alg for Line that you prepared during the EO is way faster and more reliable than trying to figure out optimal EOLine for the 12 case.
Oh and using the OP's scramble, I got OCLL skip in ZZ lawl.


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## Diniz (Dec 30, 2010)

BigSams said:


> Not really, I just intuitively do F B D R L' F2 U2 B every time (you do the last of the 4-4-4 on B so that you can have a clear look ahead for Line) and then do a Line which should be like a few fast flicks. Doing a set alg for the 12 bad case EO followed by an alg for Line that you prepared during the EO is way faster and more reliable than trying to figure out optimal EOLine for the 12 case.
> Oh and using the OP's scramble, I got OCLL skip in ZZ lawl.


 
So you do a 8 moves EO plus the moves to do the line? Thats not a good solution at all..


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## TMOY (Dec 30, 2010)

Sa967St said:


> Superflip + M2E2S2 is pretty bad.


 
Not for corners first


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## Forte (Dec 30, 2010)

14.56

average scramble, bad lookahead


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## That70sShowDude (Dec 30, 2010)

My worst combo's would be:
1. bad cross w/ all pieces needing 2 moves to insert
2. no edges/corners in the top layer during f2l
3. oll 55
4. bad r perm


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## qqwref (Dec 30, 2010)

For normal solving it's not even all that hard, the cross isn't even maximally bad (8 moves required).

Besides, there can be no one "hardest scramble", because if there was you could just memorize the solution and make it one of the easiest scrambles


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## JackJ (Dec 30, 2010)

L' R' F' B' L' R' D'
y R U R' F R' F' R
U' y' L F' L' F L' U L
R U' R' U2 y' R' U' R U' R' U R
y' R U' R' U2 y' R' U' R U' R' U R
U2 R U R' U R' F R F' U2 R' F R F'
U' R U R' F' R U2 R' U2 R' F R U R U2 R' U'

80 moves including rotations. I am not proud of this solve.


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## a small kitten (Dec 30, 2010)

> Not really, I just intuitively do F B D R L' F2 U2 B every time (you do the last of the 4-4-4 on B so that you can have a clear look ahead for Line) and then do a Line which should be like a few fast flicks. Doing a set alg for the 12 bad case EO followed by an alg for Line that you prepared during the EO is way faster and more reliable than trying to figure out optimal EOLine for the 12 case.
> Oh and using the OP's scramble, I got OCLL skip in ZZ lawl.



aaaaahahahaha....xD


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## BigSams (Dec 30, 2010)

a small kitten said:


> aaaaahahahaha....xD


 
No good? eh, works for me.
EDIT: Humm I wonder if permuting without orienting Line edges then doing a standard alg for 12 flip without disturbing the two permutations would be better.


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## izovire (Dec 30, 2010)

15.72... also slightly better than average for me


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Dec 30, 2010)

Hooray for lack of counter-clockwise turns.


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## Rpotts (Dec 30, 2010)

New Event: Scramble with only clockwise turns - Solve with only counterclockwise turns.


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## Kynit (Dec 30, 2010)

Rpotts said:


> New Event: Scramble with only clockwise turns - Solve with only counterclockwise turns.


 
Does U'3 count as counterclockwise...?


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## Sa967St (Dec 30, 2010)

TMOY said:


> Not for corners first


ok... how about superflip + M2E2S2 + supertwist?


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## irontwig (Dec 31, 2010)

Sa967St said:


> ok... how about superflip + M2E2S2 + supertwist?


 
lol3movecorners


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## Rinfiyks (Dec 31, 2010)

Sa967St said:


> ok... how about superflip + M2E2S2 + supertwist?


+ M2E2S2 equivalent for corners

U' B F' U B' F R' B R2 F D' F2 R2 D F L' F R' U' (19f*)
8 corner-edge pairs lol
I got above average


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## Hiero (Dec 31, 2010)

The article was talking about fewest moves, so when it says the most difficult to solve scramble I'm not sure it was talking about speedsolving.


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## Dene (Dec 31, 2010)

Pretty easy green cross.


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## alkanova (Dec 31, 2010)

cyoubx said:


> There is no "hardest" scramble. There are hardER scrambles, and even then, it's circumstantial. Depending on the method used, a scramble could be easy for one person, and difficult for another.


 
Actually, wouldn't the hardest scramble be the scramble that would need the most moves if you were to solve the cube without any unnecessary/extra moves ( as in the best shortest solution)? Though if you were to philosophize it. Then we'll have to define what it is for a scramble to be the hardest — or harder than another —. 

Now the definition has two parts( as in the definition would be It's the scramble that  First Part:  Second part):for the first part, I'd just save time and skip thinking and wondering whether it is the one that takes the longest time to solve or the one that takes the most moves to solve or the one that makes you think the most or the one that makes you feel worst or a combination of those or whatever. I am skipping all that and I am gonna say: It's the scramble that gives you the hardest time (This should suffice for now). Now the second part is the important part (or at least I'd like you to think so to make things easier for me): gives you the hardest time when/what?

1. At the time you try to solve it?
2. If you were to be the best possible for yourself and tried to solve it?( now, anytime, usually...
3. If the you right now tried to solve it right now ?
4. If you tried to solve it anytime.
5. If the best humanly possible tried to solve (tried to solve it now, anytime, usually....)

and the list could go on infinitely — like hell do I care though —. So whichever plausible answer you choose from the long list we are stuck with the maybe(ok fine, most probably) impossible way to find what's the hardest scramble or even which scramble is harder than which, as we will be stuck with all those endless statistics,factors and induction trials or the hunt for a psychic potential, etc. Or if we get an answer like the one that takes you the most moves even if you were to solve using the fewest moves possible, even if you get the answer to that, the scramble won't do you any good unless you were trying to solve with the fewest moves possible and after the first few times you solve it that's it, you will eventually find it very silly and it will cease to do serve the initial purpose intended (go to the second hardest and so on?). Note that the fewest moves is an example, for instance if you use Fridrich then the knowledge of the hardest scramble for Fridrich( the one that would requires most moves and —usually, I guess— therefore most time) would just render the scramble( and the second hardest and the one after...) to be just general knowledge. Though for a speedcuber using Fridrich maybe knowing the exact moves you'll be doing might do less harm and solving the hardest over and over might help practice (then get you too used to it and screw you up with the rest of normal random scrambles). Though unless you are participating for a Fridrich hardest scramble speedcubing competition(Guy1: hah I solved the hardest Fridrich scramble faster than you. Guy2:Hah I solved it faster using Petrus *Killed*) or unless you know that this is the scramble coming in the competition, then the hardest scramble for X, even if both definable and acquirable, might not be of much use except for practice at the beginning only as it will be like solving any other scramble over and over and over.

Gah! I don't wanna think about it anymore. Why did you ask this question? — no it's not another philosophical question — just use a damn scrambler, or go into the great thinking chamber and try to come up with some deductive/inductive/whatever answer, impress us!.. if you really insist XD


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## EricReese (Dec 31, 2010)

Every cube can be solved in 20 moves or less. There are plenty of scrambles that result in 20 move solutions I'm sure. So they must not know what they are talking about if that scramble is for FMC


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## jms_gears1 (Dec 31, 2010)

the 'hardest' scramble is: (M U M U M U M U xy')x3


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## Lucas Garron (Dec 31, 2010)

EricReese said:


> Every cube can be solved in 20 moves or less. There are plenty of scrambles that result in 20 move solutions I'm sure. So they must not know what they are talking about if that scramble is for FMC


Did you even look at the page? *You* don't know what you're talking about. *They* very much do.


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## Zane_C (Dec 31, 2010)

This is stupid.


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## Lucas Garron (Dec 31, 2010)

Zane_C said:


> This is stupid.


Maybe not. But note the interesting number paradox.


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## Cubenovice (Dec 31, 2010)

Zane_C said:


> This is stupid.



*This * and this scramble was already posted and tried in the FMC thread soon after the publication...


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## chikato_tan (Dec 31, 2010)

i got a 14s with it


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## Godmil (Dec 31, 2010)

Without having followed the link, I pressume by 'hardest' they meant it took the most amount of cpu time to calculate the optimal solution?


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## Rinfiyks (Dec 31, 2010)

Godmil said:


> Without having followed the link, I pressume by 'hardest' they meant it took the most amount of cpu time to calculate the optimal solution?


 
"_To date we have found about twelve million distance-20 positions. The following position was the hardest for our programs to solve_"


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## Godmil (Dec 31, 2010)

Bingo! There, that wasn't too difficult to work out now was it


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## Stefan (Dec 31, 2010)

I want to know how far into a CFOP (or other common method) solve you can get and still need 20 turns. Is there a position with solved cross that still needs 20? Or even with one or more solved F2L pairs?


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## Toad (Dec 31, 2010)

Stefan said:


> I want to know how far into a CFOP solve you can get and still need 20 turns. Is there a position with solved cross that still needs 20? Or even with one or more solved F2L pairs?


 
Now this would be interesting!!

What's God's number for LL? Anyone know it?


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## Rinfiyks (Dec 31, 2010)

randomtoad said:


> Now this would be interesting!!
> 
> What's God's number for LL? Anyone know it?


 
It's 16 I believe.

Edit: F' L2 B L B' U2 B L' B' L2 U F U' R U2 R'
Edit2: Thanks to this page. Just had to write a little program to find the longest algorithm. It's the only 16 move algorithm, interestingly.


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## rishidoshi (Jan 1, 2011)

Yeah dis was a hard scramble. took me 30 secs to SCRAMBLE it and 10 to admire the white Edge pcs   which wen dropped one by one make the white cross in only 6 moves.
aw c'mon out of 43 quintillion possibilities this is the ONE? 
wats the definition of hardest?? 
my newbie bro once told: Wen all 9 stickers on a face are of different colors thats the hardest! rolf. (It really wud be hard. jst imagine!)


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## Rune (Jan 1, 2011)

A mission for Joe?


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## Eleredo (Jan 2, 2011)

D' F L2 U R' B' L'
U F R' U F' U F2 U F
U' R U R U2 R2 U2 R U R2
U2 R U R' U R U2 R' 
U' R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 U

49 HTM


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## Kirjava (Jan 2, 2011)

L'D2BF2U'B2R'U x'y'
RUR2FRF'U' y'
RU2R'U2R'FRF'U2R'FRF'
TripSune


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## uberCuber (Jan 2, 2011)

jms_gears1 said:


> the 'hardest' scramble is: (M U M U M U M U xy')x3


 
not for speedsolving


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## stinkocheeze (Jan 2, 2011)

rishidoshi said:


> Yeah dis was a hard scramble. took me 30 secs to SCRAMBLE it and 10 to admire the white Edge pcs   which wen dropped one by one make the white cross in only 6 moves.
> aw c'mon out of 43 quintillion possibilities this is the ONE?
> wats the definition of hardest??
> my newbie bro once told: Wen all 9 stickers on a face are of different colors thats the hardest! rolf. (It really wud be hard. jst imagine!)


 
Are you horribly dyslexic?


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## Owen (Jan 2, 2011)

The scramble in the OP is actually a very easy scramble for my method. I got 18.00 for it, while I average 23.


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## Cool Frog (Jan 2, 2011)

Owen said:


> The scramble in the OP is actually a very easy scramble for my method. I got 18.00 for it, while I average 23.


 
What is your method?
I am a rouxer... and got a rather good solve with this... (rather good move count also)

Edit:nevermind


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## rishidoshi (Jan 3, 2011)

stinkocheeze said:


> Are you horribly dyslexic?


no. strangely funny.


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## MrRg52 (Jan 3, 2011)

When you use the prime symbols it's easier. :0


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## 1996iscool (Jan 15, 2011)

I got a PLL skip with this scramble!


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## Cubebacca (Jan 17, 2011)

I got 11.43 just slightly above average for me... not the hardest scramble ever.


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