# My Tips for Becoming Color Neutral



## jskyler91 (Jan 9, 2012)

This video is meant to be nothing more than a guide for those who wish to become color neutral. In short, my "method" for doing this, which is more just a scheduled way to change, calls for a 30 day period in which you do not ever use your original color. During this 30 days you will spend approximately 5 days on each other colors working through them systematically by color filter groups (opposite colors that share the same f2l pieces). There will be two review days where you will practice all the colors you have learned. The point of this way of doing things is that it makes sure that you have no chance to try your main color which will be faster until you complete the month and thus are not tempted to stop learning CN before your mind has the time to get used to it. Most people either only try for a week or two as Weston did or they don't do the correct system for learning each color i.e. by color filters. My method calls for a 100% CN solve policy, which most people do not normally follow and thus, IMO , fail. I do not claim this method to be fullproof or that you will be 100% perfect at CN by the end of it, I am just stating that if you stick to it you can become CN far faster than most people realize (approx. one month if you do not stop). I acknowledge that being faster will make the transition more uncomfortable, but not impossible. As many studies have shown it takes a month to change a habit, and I believe this applies for CN as well. 

Please try this method before you say it won't work. I personally think it will, but if you don't think so please prove me wrong.

Per request, here is a schedule for those who want it:

Days 1- 4 Practice Yellow only
Days 5- 9 Practice Blue only
Day 10- Practice Blue and Yellow, always doing the best cross
Days 11-15- Practice Green Only
Day 16- Practice with Blue Green and Yellow Only
Days 17- 21- Practice Red Only
Days 22- 26- Practice Orange Only
Days 27- 30- Practice all Colors Except White
Day 31- Til you quit cubing- Practice all colors, always choosing the best cross. 

This assumes you will be starting with white, if not just switch yellow with the color opposite of your normal starting color. You will also see that on days 10, and 16 i have you doing all the colors you have learned, after some thought I realized that it might be a good idea to have some review every now and then.

To all of those who wish to comment on the validity of this idea please watch this first:





I made this video simply to help those who wished to change, this forum is not a place to have CN battles or to say that going CN is impossible because it simply isn't. If you don't like my method then don't try it.
Some benefits I see to making this change are:

better cross choice, shorter crosses, more chances for extended crosses, a better lookahead due to your shorter cross, a smoother solve due to this increased lookahead, more confidence that you won't have a horrible cross and thus less stress during inspection, likely a lower standard deviation because you won't have that random horrible solve due to a crazy hard cross and ideally a lower solving time in the end because you had less moves and all of the benefits listed here.

Thank you and good luck changing!!!


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## PandaCuber (Jan 9, 2012)

Love this Vid<3


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## jskyler91 (Jan 9, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Love this Vid<3


 
I am glad to hear it, I responded to you on youtube, but I am sure you will be able to do it. Just make sure that you don't give up or do your dominant color until the month is up. What color are you starting with?


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## PandaCuber (Jan 9, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> I am glad to hear it, I responded to you on youtube, but I am sure you will be able to do it. Just make sure that you don't give up or do your dominant color until the month is up. What color are you starting with?


 
Im talking to you here and on Youtube, Where do you wanna keep the Convos? lol

And Yellow.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 9, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Im talking to you here and on Youtube, Where do you wanna keep the Convos? lol
> 
> And Yellow.



You might as well do it here, that will make things easier and others can benefit/enter into out convos. Sounds good, One thing that I forgot to mention in the vid is that switching colors will seem really confusing and frustrating at first, but sometime around the 20-25 day mark you will get that click and it will seem so easy after that.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 9, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> You might as well do it here, that will make things easier and others can benefit/enter into out convos. Sounds good, One thing that I forgot to mention in the vid is that switching colors will seem really confusing and frustrating at first, but sometime around the 20-25 day mark you will get that click and it will seem so easy after that.


 
Right now the only thing bothering me, is that i insert pairs into the wrong slot. You know?


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## 5BLD (Jan 9, 2012)

Very good video, I've been trying but its really hard. I will now watch the video again carefully and pick up more info... It's very very informative 

I find being colour neutral with CFOP much easier, I dunno whether it's because ive gotten fast with Roux or whether Roux blockbuilding is somehow harder to be colour neutral. For Roux I even struggle for sub-15, even then, there's the problem that I can't help but be biased towards my original colours.

Also I find little change in times with colour neutral for one handed...

anyway, I'll use Rapidash Open 2012 as a reason to postpone my colour neutral pursuits to May...

EDIT: actually, I think I might be able to get down to 10 seconds again CN by April... Well, I see how it's either I do it or I don't; I can't practice CN then suddenly do my averages non CN. 

Edit2: **** it, im doing it. But alongside non CN practice. You've convinced me...


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## Bapao (Jan 9, 2012)

Seriously, that is one of the most impressive displays of awesomeness that I have ever encountered. I have no place here... *closes door quietly*. 

*Talks from behind the closed door*: 

I was actually working on CN at work today. Your out of the box thinking is seriously amazing. But also intimidating at the same time. 

You seemed very nervous in that video though  Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

H.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 9, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Very good video, I've been trying but its really hard. I will now watch the video again carefully and pick up more info... It's very very informative
> 
> I find being colour neutral with CFOP much easier, I dunno whether it's because ive gotten fast with Roux or whether Roux blockbuilding is somehow harder to be colour neutral. For Roux I even struggle for sub-15, even then, there's the problem that I can't help but be biased towards my original colours.
> 
> ...


 

Alex, you worry about time wayyy too much! If your times go up, so what? Cause in less than 2 months youll be back to your old self, but CN and faster, cause blocks will be easier to find and we will be like the only 2 roux solvers that are color neutral lololol..jk im sure there are more.


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## Dene (Jan 9, 2012)

Way too much effort. Man up and go cold turkey. That has always been my advice to those wanting to switch, and I haven't been given any good reason not to do it this simply.


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## StachuK1992 (Jan 9, 2012)

Challenge accepted.
To decide what cross to do, I'm just going to do what the last move is (always scramble white top green front. Let's say last few move is B, I'd do green.)


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## 5BLD (Jan 9, 2012)

@pandacuber
There's only one other that I know of... Cool Frog. 
Yeah but I'm nearing sub-10 and in 2 months I could be sub-10 non CN. 

But since you're doing it too..... LETS DO THIS.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 9, 2012)

5BLD said:


> @pandacuber
> There's only one other that I know of... Cool Frog.
> Yeah but I'm nearing sub-10 and in 2 months I could be sub-10 non CN.
> 
> But since you're doing it too..... LETS DO THIS.


 
Wouldnt it be better to sub 9 CN?!?! Thats my dream <3 

Lol


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## 5BLD (Jan 9, 2012)

Thats my new goal. For the end of this year. Ambitious eh? But its not impossible XD


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## Bapao (Jan 9, 2012)

Get a room you two.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 9, 2012)

Bapao said:


> Get a room you two.


 
Care to join? 
WE ARE LIVING THE DREAM BUDDY! 
I feel so inspired now.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 9, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Alex, you worry about time wayyy too much! If your times go up, so what? Cause in less than 2 months youll be back to your old self, but CN and faster, cause blocks will be easier to find and we will be like the only 2 roux solvers that are color neutral lololol..jk im sure there are more.


 
My thoughts exactly, I also to Dene, I think going cold turkey isn't a very structured way to do it and thus many people fail because they see how much faster their original color is.. My way you never need to be tempted because u are not ever doing your original color.

Edit, To 5bld and panda I say great to see you doing it.. 5bld, I I think that if you switch to color neutral first then becoming sub 9 will be all the easier. 

Edit 2 


StachuK1992 said:


> Challenge accepted.
> To decide what cross to do, I'm just going to do what the last move is (always scramble white top green front. Let's say last few move is B, I'd do green.)


 
I wouldn't do this, but because it doesn't develop your color pair filters. You will likely just get frustrated this way. 
PS. the no double posting is annoying when you want to respond to multiple people.


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## Kirjava (Jan 9, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Edit2: **** it, im doing it. But alongside non CN practice. You've convinced me...


 
gahh. you were so close to sub10. Now I have to watch as you stop improving


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## jskyler91 (Jan 9, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> gahh. you were so close to sub10. Now I have to watch as you stop improving


 
Is he really stopping his improvement? I if he decided to learn Coll would u say this? I CN is just like learning a new alg or WV, I it is an investment.


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## Bapao (Jan 9, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> *Care to join*?
> WE ARE LIVING THE DREAM BUDDY!
> I feel so inspired now.


 
Challenge accepted. But do expect to still be solving 10 years from now if you ever want to see me catch up with you guys. This is certainly motivating content though. I'm going for CN...make it 30 years from now...owait..


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## Dene (Jan 9, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> I think going cold turkey isn't a very structured way to do it and thus many people fail because they see how much faster their original color is.. My way you never need to be tempted because u are not ever doing your original color.


 
So do any colour but your original.



StachuK1992 said:


> Challenge accepted.
> To decide what cross to do, I'm just going to do what the last move is (always scramble white top green front. Let's say last few move is B, I'd do green.)


 
Damn it no! That is _not_ what CN is about! Don't pre-chose your cross, go with the best cross available.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 9, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Is he really stopping his improvement? I if he decided to learn Coll would u say this? I CN is *just like learning a new alg* or WV, I it is an investment.


 
I just wanna say, this alg has thee hardest recognition EVAR.


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## Jaycee (Jan 9, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> I just wanna say, this alg has thee hardest recognition EVAR.


 
This wins the thread.

While I really liked the idea, I think I'm just going to try going CN (when I do; it may be a while) without much structure to the process. Cold turkey, as Dene said.


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## 5BLD (Jan 9, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> gahh. you were so close to sub10. Now I have to watch as you stop improving


 
Well I guess we will have the sadness of not reaching sub-10 together 

But as jskyler said, it's an investment; sure, I won't reach sub-10 which I would've non-CN in month but still, after that, I'll be so much more versatile... 
I have always been considering colour neutrality since I've been 'relatively fast'(which is unfortunate, wish it was earlier), but never got round to it. I may as well do it now. 

Why don't you do it with us? It'll be fun (I hope)


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## teller (Jan 9, 2012)

Good advice, jskyler. 

I would add: A color filter isn't just for corners. For example, if you have a blue cross, you don't just filter on blue corners, but also *non-green* edges.

And you probably know your fixed cross color scheme backwards and forwards. You need this same insight on the other 5 crosses in order for the easy ones to pop out at you, so during each single-color 5-day pounding-in period, give special attention to memorizing the given cross scheme. Knowing that scheme will also help the 2nd layer edges to pop out at you more easily.

@5BLD: I think blocks are harder in general than crosses, but the principle is the same--you'll see patterns instead of specific colors. I put myself through a month of CN 2x2 blocks and by the end they were no trouble at all and I had a self-satisfied grin. Go for it!


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## collinbxyz (Jan 9, 2012)

While I'm already CN, I still looked at most of this video, and I have to say, great job. I sort of started as CN when I originally switched to CFOP, but this seems like a very good approach to this.


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## 5BLD (Jan 9, 2012)

Great to hear teller, it would be more useful for blocks although a bit harder to get used to, so it seems.
I've started practicing! Ill do three days on yellow, as well as this evening. Then five days on each other colour. I've got two months, by then I hope I will-no,-will be sub-10.5 CN for the next UK competition. If not, who gives a ****?


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## Bapao (Jan 9, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Great to hear teller, it would be more useful for blocks although a bit harder to get used to, so it seems.
> I've started practicing! Ill do three days on yellow, as well as this evening. Then five days on each other colour. I've got two months, by then I hope I will-no,-will be sub-10.5 CN for the next UK competition. If not, who gives a ****?


 
Your thirst for success in unquenchable. High hopes I have for you.

The cross/ colour adjustment is easy on pair insertion IMO, but making the cross really freaks me out.


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## Kirjava (Jan 9, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Is he really stopping his improvement?



Yes, CN is a tangent from his normal progression.



jskyler91 said:


> I if he decided to learn Coll would u say this?



No, because CN requires a much bigger investment of time. (Also I'm pretty sure he already knows COLL).



jskyler91 said:


> I CN is just like learning a new alg or WV, I it is an investment.



Very much not. If CN was just like learning a new alg, many more people would be CN.



5BLD said:


> Well I guess we will have the sadness of not reaching sub-10 together



Speak for yourself, I'm not stopped improving, y'know 



5BLD said:


> But as jskyler said, it's an investment; sure, I won't reach sub-10 which I would've non-CN in month but still, after that, I'll be so much more versatile...



Haha you think it's going to be as easy as he says it is. 



5BLD said:


> Why don't you do it with us? It'll be fun (I hope)



You didn't read my thread, did you?


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## chrissyD (Jan 9, 2012)

Good video but I don't think a month or two of work is worth the extra 1 move I'll save...


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## thackernerd (Jan 9, 2012)

Do you want to know what I did to switch over? I started to solve the cross on different sides each time I started the puzzle...


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## joey (Jan 9, 2012)

This video doesn't really explain anything.
You're saying "look at other colours like you look at white".. RIGHT! That's the whole point in CN.

Also this whole 1 month thing, that's just a made up figure until someone actually does it.

Also, you said you guarantee that I can be dual colour in 5 days? What's do I get if I'm not.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 9, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Yes, CN is a tangent from his normal progression.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
All I have to say is you won't know until you try man, and those who are trying my method will be the proof one way or another.



thackernerd said:


> Do you want to know what I did to switch over? I started to solve the cross on different sides each time I started the puzzle...


 
Again, this will work for some but not others, and I personally tried my approach and it worked, I now I am sharing it for those for whom this won't work 



joey said:


> This video doesn't really explain anything.
> You're saying "look at other colours like you look at white".. RIGHT! That's the whole point in CN.
> 
> Also this whole 1 month thing, that's just a made up figure until someone actually does it.


 


jskyler91 said:


> All I have to say is you won't know until you try man, and those who are trying my method will be the proof one way or another.



I did it in a month and I don't think myself to be superior to anyone else.


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## joey (Jan 9, 2012)

Because you were 30s... 30s is slow.

Do you really think that in one month, I can become as good with other colours as I am with green? I've been solving with green for 5 years now.

Also, your "method" is just motivation and dedication.


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## Cool Frog (Jan 10, 2012)

As a CN Roux solver, I am going to be One block only for a while, simply to allow my self to see more difficult blocks in less moves and know how to deal with more cases than those that come up with in most solves. 

I admit sometimes I get solves where I honestly have no idea where to start in a CN solve(because of consistent "easier" cases I haven't learned to deal with hard cases), there is nothing that jumps out at me while rare this can ruin an average.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

joey said:


> Because you were 30s... 30s is slow.
> 
> Do you really think that in one month, I can become as good with other colours as I am with green? I've been solving with green for 5 years now.
> 
> Also, your "method" is just motivation and dedication


Try it and see, worst case scenario you end up the same or more than likely two color neutral, At best it works. I realize that it will be harder for you, but I am certain that you can change.. It takes one month to change a habit and I believe that applies here to.. If you think I am wrong then try it fullheartedly and see.. Consider the losses and the potential gains. Plus you can still learn other things, and I am not saying that you shouldn't practice other things, and just practice them color neutral.


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## Robocopter87 (Jan 10, 2012)

You know, I wasn't color neutral at first. I started on Green all the time. BUt not long after I learned (Which I think is the main reason this was possible), I said, heck, I'll do the best cross I can find. No need to be confined to one color. After that I was CN. Still am. 

I didn't know switching was hard until people said it was. I just did it. 

Same way I learned CFOP, I *knew* it was faster. Even if it wasn't faster at that time. But I *knew* I would do better once I learned it. And it didn't disappoint. 

So yeah, Color Neutral wasn't really a challenge because I knew it would work better. And thus didn't mind doing worse until I could do it consistently. Of course, this was really early in my cubing career. So I'm sure that had an impact on how easy it was for me to switch. 

And the switch didn't take long. It was just, bang, I'm going to be color neutral, Bang, I'm color neutral. 

Except, sometimes I'm not sure whether or not it was the best thing. Having a quick cross is nice yes, but in the event of having nothing to work with, I don't have a backup, thus I just gotta pick the nearest color and just go with it. Plus Its harder to recognize Edge pairs when you are searching for a cross. I can't even consistently do that yet. 

With one color, you know what you are looking for, you know how to identify whats next. And being able to identify the cross and do it a second or two faster doesn't really seem like that good of a sacrifice in comparison.

But, I'm CN, so thats that.


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> All I have to say is you won't know until you try man, and those who are trying my method will be the proof one way or another.


 
How do you not see that this applies to yourself, too? Saying that anyone can be CN in a month is completely made up.

You said a month because you switched in a month when you were really slow. 

It is really /really/ harder the faster you get. *Please stop lying to people.*


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## Robocopter87 (Jan 10, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> How do you not see that this applies to yourself, too? Saying that anyone can be CN in a month is completely made up.
> 
> You said a month because you switched in a month when you were really slow.
> 
> It is really /really/ harder the faster you get. *Please stop lying to people.*



I second this, There is no way I could've switched like that if I wasn't so new to cubing. I cannot imagine being around 15 seconds and doing it. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2012)

Things like this really annoy me, this thread needs to be closed or removed for spreading misinformation.

Many fast people have tried to switch for months and months and no one has ever succeeded. This thread has already convinced people that it is worth their time. All that's going to happen is they will try and realise that's they're still heavily colour biased and evetually give up trying to switch. Switching takes a very very very long time if you're already fast.

I made my colour neutral thread to stop this kind of misinformation spreading. This is obviously a response to that thread, and I attempted to stress how difficult switching was. Without evidence, the contrary to what has been observed to happen has been stated as if it was a true fact, wasting people's time.


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## MalusDB (Jan 10, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Things like this really annoy me, this thread needs to be closed or removed for spreading misinformation.
> 
> Many fast people have tried to switch for months and months and no one has ever succeeded. This thread has already convinced people that it is worth their time. All that's going to happen is they will try and realise that's they're still heavily colour biased and evetually give up trying to switch. Switching takes a very very very long time if you're already fast.
> 
> I made my colour neutral thread to stop this kind of misinformation spreading. This is obviously a response to that thread, and I attempted to stress how difficult switching was. Without evidence, the contrary to what has been observed to happen has been stated as if it was a true fact, wasting people's time.


 
I don't think anybody is truly colour neutral. Whether they realise it or not they probably are slightly biased to certain colours, or will notice crosses (or the equivelant) more quickly on certain combinations. I think we should drop the term and go for something that expresses general indifference alongside a vague preference for those who are closest to true colout neutrality. And I am aware I have responded to a fair few of your posts on the matter Kirjava, just saying that I'm not trying to be contrary.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Things like this really annoy me, this thread needs to be closed or removed for spreading misinformation.
> 
> Many fast people have tried to switch for months and months and no one has ever succeeded. This thread has already convinced people that it is worth their time. All that's going to happen is they will try and realise that's they're still heavily colour biased and evetually give up trying to switch. Switching takes a very very very long time if you're already fast.
> 
> I made my colour neutral thread to stop this kind of misinformation spreading. This is obviously a response to that thread, and I attempted to stress how difficult switching was. Without evidence, the contrary to what has been observed to happen has been stated as if it was a true fact, wasting people's time.


 
Maybe they haven't done it because they haven't had the right way to do it man. Just chill out and see if others like my method for switching. How can you say my method doesn't work when you haven't tried it? It worked for me and I think it can for others. What "misinformation" am I spreading? I am saying that if you stick to it IIIIIIIII believe you can switch in a month. Let's see if I am right instead of getting annoyed for no reason because YOU, who has not tried my method yet, thinks it wont work. Just because you gave up dude doesn't mean it is impossible. I am almost certain your reasons for it not working are because you didn't switch systematically. Think about it, with cigarettes, if you just try to go cold turkey your chances of suceeding are far less then if you ween yourself off of them. This is the same thing, you are weening yourself off of white and onto other colors.

PS. Can everyone stop hatting? I am simply trying to help out the forum with a new, structured way to switch, something which the forum did not have before. If you don't think it will work then either try it 100 percent sticking to my method and prove me wrong or don't try it. Your repetitive nay saying without any real proof (this is a new method so trying to say that others have tried and failed does not count as proof, the only really proof you can provide is to actually try it and fail.) is just to qoute Kirjava "misinformation".


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## Muesli (Jan 10, 2012)

MalusDB said:


> I don't think anybody is truly colour neutral. Whether they realise it or not they probably are slightly biased to certain colours, or will notice crosses (or the equivelant) more quickly on certain combinations. I think we should drop the term and go for something that expresses general indifference alongside a vague preference for those who are closest to true colout neutrality. And I am aware I have responded to a fair few of your posts on the matter Kirjava, just saying that I'm not trying to be contrary.


 
I disagree. Colour Neutrality means no active preference to a colour when solving the cube. If you can solve consistently using any colour then I think you're allowed to call yourself colour neutral. Obviously it's a spectrum thing; for all I know I could solve faster on red or slower on blue, but cluttering the cubing rhetoric with meaningless definitions is pointless and confusing. Either your CN, White/Yellow (or any other combination) neutral or one colour. 

When we come down to it, it's not important whether someone claims to be CN or not. It's a curio at best because it offers no obvious speed advantage (until someone does a study that shows either way).


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Muesli said:


> I disagree. Colour Neutrality means no active preference to a colour when solving the cube. If you can solve consistently using any colour then I think you're allowed to call yourself colour neutral. Obviously it's a spectrum thing; for all I know I could solve faster on red or slower on blue, but cluttering the cubing rhetoric with meaningless definitions is pointless and confusing. Either your CN, White/Yellow (Or any other combination) neutral or one colour.



Agreed, nice point.


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## joey (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> I am simply trying to help out the forum with a new, structured way to switch, something which the forum did not have before.


 
This is not a new way to switch, really.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

joey said:


> This is not a new way to switch, really.



Most people just say try switching, they never really give you a method or a particular time you should spend on each color, I did. Also, they don't teach that it is color filters and patterns, not just an entire new color. The way I am trying to explain it, there are only really three colors to learn seeing as the f2l pieces are the same. Let me ask you this Joey, who I hear is quite the good cuber and with whom I am honored to be speaking, how many times have you tried to switch to color neutral?


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## Cool Frog (Jan 10, 2012)

When I averaged 30 seconds with CFOP and I tried switching to color neutrality (Beginning)
It took me A week to switch where my times where consistent with my old times, 

I did it where i just solved whatever cross was best.

Therefore, with 2 pieces of data (yours VS mine), my "method" is faster.


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## pdilla (Jan 10, 2012)

After hearing the word "filter" something just clicked in my mind and I can, all of a sudden, solve color neutrally without strain.

Holy crap.  You HAVE to be kidding me...


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## PandaCuber (Jan 10, 2012)

Day 1: Solving all day with yellow D. Avg12: 20.38 (σ = 1.34). This is Yellow D, L/R neutral. Might I say, I could *only*(Literally) solve White D, Red F.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

pdilla said:


> After hearing the word "filter" something just clicked in my mind and I can, all of a sudden, solve color neutrally without strain.
> 
> Holy crap.  You HAVE to be kidding me...



Thats great for you dude!!!



PandaCuber said:


> Day 1: Solving all day with yellow D. Avg12: 20.38 (σ = 1.34). This is Yellow D, L/R neutral. Might I say, I could *only*(Literally) solve White D, Red F.



Nice work dude, and that is only after one day of practice!!


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## iShadows (Jan 10, 2012)

Does CN helps looking ahead development?


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## PandaCuber (Jan 10, 2012)

iShadows said:


> Does CN helps looking ahead development?


 
Its really helped my lookahead. Its making me go slow and look ahead. If i dont , i will have a 4 second pause to look for pieces.


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## iShadows (Jan 10, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Its really helped my lookahead. Its making me go slow and look ahead. If i dont , i will have a 4 second pause to look for pieces.


Yea, I just noticed xDDD


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## MalusDB (Jan 10, 2012)

Muesli said:


> I disagree. Colour Neutrality means no active preference to a colour when solving the cube. If you can solve consistently using any colour then I think you're allowed to call yourself colour neutral.


 
Fair point actually. I think alot of people make the assumption I made when they hear/read the term though. I guess thats their own problem for misunderstanding. I live and learn I guess! I'm personally going to give this a go though. I am around 30 seconds but its more down to using bad insertions and bad last layer that it isn't quicker, rather than recog. I would consider my recog fairly drilled in by now. I'll see how it goes but I seriously doubt a month is realistic even no-life-ing it.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Its really helped my lookahead. Its making me go slow and look ahead. If i dont , i will have a 4 second pause to look for pieces.


 


iShadows said:


> Yea, I just noticed xDDD



That's a nice bonus  So a few of you guys have messaged me asking for a schedule so I made one:

Days 1- 4 Practice Yellow only
Days 5- 9 Practice Blue only
Day 10- Practice Blue and Yellow, always doing the best cross
Days 11-15- Practice Green Only
Day 16- Practice with Blue Green and Yellow Only
Days 17- 21- Practice Red Only
Days 22- 26- Practice Orange Only
Days 27- 30- Practice all Colors Except White
Day 31- Til you quit cubing- Practice all colors, always choosing the best cross. 

This assumes you will be starting with white, if not just switch yellow with the color opposite of your normal starting color. You will also see that on days 10, and 16 i have you doing all the colors you have learned, after some thought I realized that it might be a good idea to have some review every now and then.


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## Jaycee (Jan 10, 2012)

Even if your "method" "worked", would a schedule really help? It's not like you can say "follow this schedule. You'll be color neutral!" If I believed this was really something special, I'd want it to be on my own terms so I can progress at my own pace.


jskyler91 said:


> Also, please try *this method*





jskyler91 said:


> I think going cold turkey isn't *a very structured way* to do it





jskyler91 said:


> those who are trying *my method* will be the proof one way or another.





jskyler91 said:


> *I personally tried my approach and it worked*,





jskyler91 said:


> Just chill out and see if others like *my method for switching*. *How can you say my method doesn't work* when you haven't tried it? ... because YOU, who has *not tried my method* yet, thinks it wont work. ... because you didn't *switch systematically*. ... I am simply trying to help out the forum with *a new, structured way to switch, something which the forum did not have before.* ... *sticking to my method* and ... (this is *a new* method so ...)





jskyler91 said:


> Most people just say try switching, they never really *give you a method ..., I did.*



What's your method? Hard work, dedication, motivation, persistence, practice, etc etc? Olook I can do this too!

Go set the WR for every event. All it takes is practice!!!

Exaggerated but it's the second thing I thought of and it's still the same concept.

I think these people do a pretty good job of explaining my point.



Dene said:


> Way too much effort. Man up and go cold turkey.





Kirjava said:


> If CN was just like learning a new alg, many more people would be CN.





chrissyD said:


> Good video but I don't think a month or two of work is worth the extra 1 move I'll save...





joey said:


> This video doesn't really explain anything. ...You're saying "look at other colours like you look at white".. RIGHT! That's the whole point in CN. ... Also this whole 1 month thing, that's just a made up figure until someone actually does it.





joey said:


> This is not a new way to switch, really.



EDIT on next day : Still haven't answered my question -.-


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> Even if your "method" "worked", would a schedule really help? It's not like you can say "follow this schedule. You'll be color neutral!" If I believed this was really something special, I'd want it to be on my own terms so I can progress at my own pace.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
To all of those who wish to comment on the validity of this idea please watch this first:


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## PandaCuber (Jan 10, 2012)

I liked the video. A month has not passed yet, so how would all you haters know if his method works or it doesnt?


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## Weston (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Try it and see, worst case scenario you end up the same or more than likely two color neutral, At best it works


 Every time I try to switch to color neutral I get slower with white cross.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Weston said:


> Every time I try to switch to color neutral I get slower with white cross.


 
Really now, I have never seen that before. I would think it would be the opposite. In its simplest form trying to be color neutral is a way to practice going slower and mastering what you know in all environments/colors. This is a chance to work on turnign slower and looking ahead more and getting more comfortable with what you know. Maybe it didn't work because you are focusing on it way too much, like I said in the video, switching doesn't mean you have to stop learning other things, it just means you should try to apply them while doing others colors. If you can do a new f2l pair on all color then I think you have it. Just relax and practice a colors for about five days each with a few practice days of all colors. How did you used to try being color neutral?


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## Sahid Velji (Jan 10, 2012)

Appreciate the video! I will try this as my purpose is to have fun. Really when you solve on the same color every time, you're doing it without thinking much. I kind of get bored and this video has encouraged me to at the LEAST use my opposite color as well.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Sahid Velji said:


> Appreciate the video! I will try this as my purpose is to have fun. Really when you solve on the same color every time, you're doing it without thinking much. I kind of get bored and this video has encouraged me to at the LEAST use my opposite color as well.



Very true, I hope this helps you to transition. Even if you only end up doing two colors it will be a huge change in the way you cube and give you a large advantage over your older cubing self.


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## Weston (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Really now, I have never seen that before. I would think it would be the opposite. In its simplest form trying to be color neutral is a way to practice going slower and mastering what you know in all environments/colors. This is a chance to work on turnign slower and looking ahead more and getting more comfortable with what you know. Maybe it didn't work because you are focusing on it way too much, like I said in the video, switching doesn't mean you have to stop learning other things, it just means you should try to apply them while doing others colors. If you can do a new f2l pair on all color then I think you have it. Just relax and practice a colors for about five days each with a few practice days of all colors. How did you used to try being color neutral?


 I have tried cold turkey and one color at a time.
Even after I try to practice solving with a yellow cross, when I go back to white I put my edges in backwards, put pairs in the wrong slots, or just make outright wrong pairs.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Weston said:


> I have tried cold turkey and one color at a time.
> Even after I try to practice solving with a yellow cross, when I go back to white I put my edges in backwards, put pairs in the wrong slots, or just make outright wrong pairs.


 
Lol, how long consecutively did you try to change? I.e. how many days in a row did you try CN non stop and did you do white as well or did you just try adding one new color at a time?


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## Cool Frog (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Lol, how long consecutively did you try to change? I.e. how many days in a row did you try CN non stop and did you do white as well or did you just try adding one new color at a time?



there is a big difference between White and Yellow crosses, to a well practiced user this stands out since when you use yellow, the orange and red sides are swapped, and the "natural" orientation of the cube is flipped.

It would be similar to forcing a BLDer to using a cube off by a z2 as his new orientation, then switching back after he gets used to it.


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## solved (Jan 10, 2012)

This just makes me so glad I have always been color neutral. I guess the DB method wasn't ENTIRELY horrible.


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## Weston (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Lol, how long consecutively did you try to change? I.e. how many days in a row did you try CN non stop and did you do white as well or did you just try adding one new color at a time?


 About a week each time.
For "cold turkey" I included white. For "one color at a time" I obviously didn't.

Anyway, I think that there are much better investments that you can make other than color neutrality. I think just learning a bunch of F2L tricks would be much more beneficial, or even just practicing OLLs and PLLs until you can consistently do them sub 1 in solves.
When people try to be color neutral, they're basically trying to get around the difficulty of predicting the first F2L pair when you have a long cross. Well, you could always just practice predicting the first F2L pair, or practice finding more optimal cross solutions, or practice looking ahead while you're solving. I'm not a big fan of trying to get around a problem instead of just tackling the problem head-on. For example, for OH solving, I am an advocate of practicing your two-handed algorithms one-handed instead of learning a bunch of one-handed OLLs and PLLs. That way your one-handed dexterity improves and you become better at turning one-handed in general. This way your one-handed speed isn't limited by the availability of good one-handed algorithms since you are used to incorporating awkward turns in your turning style. Obviously there are some exceptions to this, but I think in general time is better spent practicing than trying to learn new things.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> there is a big difference between White and Yellow crosses, to a well practiced user this stands out since when you use yellow, the orange and red sides are swapped, and the "natural" orientation of the cube is flipped.
> 
> It would be similar to forcing a BLDer to using a cube off by a z2 as his new orientation, then switching back after he gets used to it.


 
True, that is something that practice will help eliminate, hense why I didn't make a video saying you can be color neutral in one day or even a week. Where you trying to say more here or where you just pointing this completely valid point out?


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## Cool Frog (Jan 10, 2012)

Trying to explain why one would get slower at white cross after practicing yellow.



Weston said:


> Anyway, I think that there are much better investments that you can make other than color neutrality. I think just learning a bunch of F2L tricks would be much more beneficial, or even just practicing OLLs and PLLs until you can consistently do them sub 1 in solves.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Weston said:


> About a week each time.
> For "cold turkey" I included white. For "one color at a time" I obviously didn't.
> 
> Anyway, I think that there are much better investments you can make other than color neutrality. I think just learning a bunch of F2L tricks would be much more beneficial, or even just practicing OLLs and PLLs until you can consistently do them sub 1 in solves.


 
Oh, I completely agree that there will always be other things that you can practice, but at one point you will reach your limit and I believe that limit is lower (in times) for color neutral persons. At that point you would probably want to change and if that is so then why don't you do it now when it will be easier and you are less set in your ways? Plus I think you underestimate the value of a shorter and easier cross, as I said in my video; a shorter and easier cross means a better cross to f2l transition, higher chances of finding your first pairs, smoother and more confident solves and just a better solve all around. 

A good solve, at least for me can be the difference of an 16 to a 10. Seeing as how I have greater chances at good solves because my cross was easier, then I am actually probably cutting off a few seconds by being color neutral. Now obviously the gains are smaller when you are faster but still, a half second off of your average is still the difference between a 10 average and a 9 average or a 7 and a 6

Also, to your not succeeding, I again qoute the stats you can find on google, that it takes, on average 30 days to break a new habit, so if you only spend 7 that is not enough.


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## Weston (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Oh, I completely agree that there will always be other things that you can practice, but at one point you will reach your limit and I believe that limit is lower (in times) for color neutral persons. At that point you would probably want to change and if that is so then why don't you do it now when it will be easier and you are less set in your ways? Plus I think you underestimate the value of a shorter and easier cross, as I said in my video; a shorter and easier cross means a better cross to f2l transition, higher chances of finding your first pairs, smoother and more confident solves and just a better solve all around.
> 
> A good solve, at least for me can be the difference of an 16 to a 10. Seeing as how I have greater chances at good solves because my cross was easier, then I am actually probably cutting off a few seconds by being color neutral. Now obviously the gains are smaller when you are faster but still, a half second off of your average is still the difference between a 10 average and a 9 average or a 7 and a 6
> 
> Also, to your not succeeding, I again qoute the stats you can find on google, that it takes, on average 30 days to break a new habit, so if you only spend 7 that is not enough.


I added stuff to my post, but I'll post the stuff I added here to make sure that you see it.



Weston said:


> When people try to be color neutral, they're basically trying to get around the difficulty of predicting the first F2L pair when you have a long cross. Well, you could always just practice predicting the first F2L pair, or practice finding more optimal cross solutions, or practice looking ahead while you're solving. I'm not a big fan of trying to get around a problem instead of just tackling the problem head-on. For example, for OH solving, I am an advocate of practicing your two-handed algorithms one-handed instead of learning a bunch of one-handed OLLs and PLLs. That way your one-handed dexterity improves and you become better at turning one-handed in general. This way your one-handed speed isn't limited by the availability of good one-handed algorithms since you are used to incorporating awkward turns in your turning style. Obviously there are some exceptions to this, but I think in general time is better spent practicing than trying to learn new things.






jskyler91 said:


> Also, to your not succeeding, I again qoute the stats you can find on google, that it takes, on average 30 days to break a new habit, so if you only spend 7 that is not enough.


Yes, but I'm not talking about my inability to solve on new colors. I'm talking about my inability to solve on my old color.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Weston said:


> I added stuff to my post, but I'll post the stuff I added here to make sure that you see it.



I like your approach to cubing, mine is very similar, I always try to do what is necessary to get fast, not what is easy. I would also agree that practicing your look ahead is very valuable and I am not saying that you should be color neutral so that you can not practice your look ahead, I am saying you should be color neutral so that you can have even better look ahead and more opportunities to use that lookahead to look further into the solve. I do both, I am color neutral and I practice my look ahead cross memo a lot. My point is why would I want to practice my look ahead a bunch to only be able to predict one pair on hard crosses when I could use that same lookahead CN and lookahead to two pairs? Being color neutral only helps to aid your lookahead and gives you more opportunities to benefit from it.



Weston said:


> Yes, but I'm not talking about my inability to solve on new colors. I'm talking about my inability to solve on my old color.



Right, I think you loss in the white color was because you didn't properly transition into CN which lead you to get completely confused and mess up everything. If you don't fully do it right then you will obviously see some negative effects. Imagine if I tried to get a sex change, but I only stopped half way, don't you think I would be a little messed up? I realize this was an ab absurdium argument, but it is the same idead with this, you need to do it right or you might just end up frustrated and confused.


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## Cool Frog (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Right, I think you loss in the white color was because you didn't properly transition into CN which lead you to get completely confused and mess up everything. If you don't fully do it right then you will obviously see some negative effects. *Imagine if I tried to get a sex change, but I only stopped half way, don't you think I would be a little messed up*? I realize this was an ab absurdium argument , but it is the same idead with this, you need to do it right or you might just end up frustrated and confused.


 And even after you where don't you couldn't go back because things have changed so much.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> And even after you where don't you couldn't go back because things have changed so much.


 
Not sure if you joking, if you are ha ha, if not then not quite, you can go back and relearn to be color fixed (obviously he (Weston) did it). I think this is why so many people get frustrated about going to CN , because they try once in a less than optimal way, and then get so screwed up and annoyed that they just think it is impossible. It isn't guys, you just need a better method. This is just like when people said it was impossible to do a solve in less than 10 seconds a long time ago, many people had tried but they couldn't do it so they thought it was impossible. What was wrong? they weren't doing the right method (I am talking about the old lbl ers and stuff).


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## Mollerz (Jan 10, 2012)

I am a colour neutral solver, I've been colour neutral since I started cubing about half a year ago and my suggestion is, if you are new to cubing, pick Colour Neutral, Opposite Neutral, or single colour cross dependant on what you feel you will do the best with. There are advantages with all of them.

Single Colour Cross users will quickly get used to doing "bad" crosses. I say quote it because it may be longer but it is not necessarily less beneficial than a shorter cross because after the cross, there is still 4 F2L pairs, OLL and PLL (Assuming CFOP). You could save that half a second from that longer cross from easier F2L pairs or less rotations of the cube. With single colour you also know exactly what pieces you are looking for and you know where they go regardless because rather than a filter the non-cross colour pieces out. From doing these bad crosses, when you do get a good cross you get much faster solves also. You also get "increased" inspection time and can plan for better crosses better because as you start inspection you ALREADY know what cross colour you are doing so you can look for the edge pieces, and lookahead to the first F2L pairs or plan Xcrosses because you have that "extra" time you spend looking for a good cross.

Colour Neutral, obviously you can look for all the crosses but this DOES take time, even if it is just 2 or 3 seconds, that is 2-3 seconds less to plan a cross. You get easier crosses more often than not but when you do get 6 non-obviously good crosses, you have to do a bad cross, and you won't necessarily be practiced for these bad crosses. For me, I've been colour neutral since the beginning so I am going back to single colours to work on getting used to bad crosses and practice forcing Xcrosses, then when I go back to colour neutral I will be able to pick up some easy Xcrosses I may not have noticed before.

Personally, I think Opposite Neutral is the best, it gets the best of both worlds and if you are opposite neutral from the start then it should work very nicely at least I think. It isn't that hard for people who struggle with colour neutrality but it's not that far of a step up from just a single solve.

Now, in response the the response video:

You literally have no idea how hard it is to switch when you are faster. You switched at 30 seconds, and now you are faster you are like, oh yeah CN is easy because I can do it, doesn't take too long to switch. No **** you can say it's easy to switch if you are CN already because we already can do it and we can see "everything". When you are fast, it is HARD to switch, and there is literally no proof that colour neutral is better. Ok, Faz and Rowe are colour neutral and they are ranked as #1 and #2 in the average rankings but look at the rest of the top 10.

3. Piti Pichedpan (ปิติ พิเชษฐพันธ์) - White
4. Cornelius Dieckmann - White
5. Giovanni Contardi - Orange
6. Michał Pleskowicz - Yellow/White
7. Breandan Vallance - Yellow
8. Kanneti Sae Han - Orange
9. Yu Nakajima - Blue (On Japanese Colour Scheme)
10. Mats Valk - Blue

The last I checked these were their cross colours, if I am wrong, whatever, most of them are still right nonetheless. Even if you continue down the only other colour neutral cuber for a while is Robert Yau. All of these CN cubers have been such from a very early stage. And there are no fast CN cubers that have switched from a single/opposite scheme and that has been said before many times.

Breandan IS trying to swap to colour neutral at the moment because he does not believe he will get any faster if he stays on yellow cross only. Only time will tell if he does get faster and we will be able to see how long it does take for him to get faster.

I'm going to go ahead and say, if you are not a brand new cuber, I would not recommend this at all, stick with what you know. If you are new then do try all colours, find which style whether it be a single colour cross, colour neutrality or opposite neutrality suits you best.

EDIT: It does seem as if you ARE trying to force colour neutrality onto people. You are telling them to try it before giving a valid reason not to switch. If you are beyond the realm of even 25 seconds, then it is a waste of your time switching if it takes you longer than a month. It seems colour neutrality is something you pick up naturally and is very difficult to actually learn how to do once you are fast already with a single colour or opposite scheme.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yttrium said:


> I am a colour neutral solver, I've been colour neutral since I started cubing about half a year ago and my suggestion is, if you are new to cubing, pick Colour Neutral, Opposite Neutral, or single colour cross dependant on what you feel you will do the best with. There are advantages with all of them.
> 
> Single Colour Cross users will quickly get used to doing "bad" crosses. I say quote it because it may be longer but it is not necessarily less beneficial than a shorter cross because after the cross, there is still 4 F2L pairs, OLL and PLL (Assuming CFOP). You could save that half a second from that longer cross from easier F2L pairs or less rotations of the cube. With single colour you also know exactly what pieces you are looking for and you know where they go regardless because rather than a filter the non-cross colour pieces out. From doing these bad crosses, when you do get a good cross you get much faster solves also. You also get "increased" inspection time and can plan for better crosses better because as you start inspection you ALREADY know what cross colour you are doing so you can look for the edge pieces, and lookahead to the first F2L pairs or plan Xcrosses because you have that "extra" time you spend looking for a good cross.
> 
> ...



Please read this entire thread before posting, i have responded to all that you have said and I have also made a separate video saying that I understand it will be harder if you are faster, but it is in no way impossible. Also just because you can be fast not color neutral doesn't mean you won't be faster not color neutral. I personally believe that those who are at 9 seconds non color neutral would be way faster now had they switched. True not that many fast people are color neutral, but that is because it isn't popular, that doesn't mean that it isn't still better. Same reason that there aren't any Roux solvers up there, because not enough people have tried it. Color neutral has many more advantages than you listed, read the entire forum for those, and it is all, IMO , an investment. Also, it is your fault that you got pampered by color neutrality and didn't practice hard crosses, this is not the fault of color neutrality in and of itself. 

Please don't try posting in a forum that you obviously haven't read. Also, You started out CN, how can you know what it is like to transition?


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## pjk (Jan 10, 2012)

To all: if you don't like the idea, then don't practice it and move on. If you like the idea, try it and post your results. It's okay to disagree. It is just an idea.

Has anyone who uses just a 1 color cross tried to do 5 averages of 100 with each of the 5 other colors (starting with the opposite color and then opposites from there on out)? I'd be curious of the results, and how they decline over each avg of 100.


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## Mollerz (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Please read this entire thread before posting, i have responded to all that you have said and I have also made a separate video saying that I understand it will be harder if you are faster, but it is in no way impossible. Also just because you can be fast not color neutral doesn't mean you won't be faster not color neutral. I personally believe that those who are at 9 seconds non color neutral would be way faster now had they switched. Color neutral has many more advantages than you listed, read the entire forum for those, and it is all, IMO , an investment. Also, it is your fault that you got pampered by color neutrality and didn't practice hard crosses, this is not the fault of color neutrality in and of itself.
> 
> Please don't try posting in a forum that you obviously haven't read. Also, You started out CN, how can you know what it is like to transition?


 
I have read everything and it does **** me off to see that you are oblivious to what others are saying when they are voicing their opinion and you still try to spew all your misinformation on everyone.

You also clearly haven't read what I have written as well because I never said I was held back by colour neutrality, I just never practiced harder crosses because I rarely, if ever, got them. I'm around 16-17 seconds at the moment and I've only been cubing half a year or so, I've never really done any specific practice. I don't practice crosses, I don't drill LL algs, I just solve a lot. That's why I'm "stuck" with an 8-10 second F2L and a 4-8 second LL, and a lot of that F2L is actually executing my cross. But I've saved a few seconds just by being CN. I can go and drill LL algs and practice crosses, Xcrosses and the like by sticking to a certain colour and learning a few F2L algorithms for cases I do badly intuitively and that will undoubtedly make me faster.

Also, I didn't really start CN, I just realised after a few days of solving that I might as well learn to do it on all colours, since I was slow anyway I thought there would be an advantage to learning how to solve on all crosses so I've been CN from a very early stage, but when I started I learnt full PLL (Without GPerms, which I subsequently learnt the next day) and intuitive F2L on my first day, so my first few timed solves on my 2nd day of being a "speedcuber" was about 40 seconds, which was pretty much as slow as you were since at that speed, 5-10 seconds is very little in reality. You cannot really say you know what it is like to transition either since you were slow as well.

And please, humour me and everyone else and list all the advantages of being Colour Neutral, briefly and concisely in a simple list so we can see what these "advantages" are.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yttrium said:


> I have read everything and it does **** me off to see that you are oblivious to what others are saying when they are voicing their opinion and you still try to spew all your misinformation on everyone.
> 
> You also clearly haven't read what I have written as well because I never said I was held back by colour neutrality, I just never practiced harder crosses because I rarely, if ever, got them. I'm around 16-17 seconds at the moment and I've only been cubing half a year or so, I've never really done any specific practice. I don't practice crosses, I don't drill LL algs, I just solve a lot. That's why I'm "stuck" with an 8-10 second F2L and a 4-8 second LL, and a lot of that F2L is actually executing my cross. But I've saved a few seconds just by being CN. I can go and drill LL algs and practice crosses, Xcrosses and the like by sticking to a certain colour and learning a few F2L algorithms for cases I do badly intuitively and that will undoubtedly make me faster.
> 
> ...


 
Wow, you are quite firey about this, I am just going to end this before it starts and say you are perfectly allowed to voice your concerns, but do so informedly. I responded to all of the claims you made in previous parts of the thread. I feel no need to respond to your asking for a list of the advantages as I say them in my video and in detail on many pages here. Also, I don't care if you wish to use ****'s to curse at me, but just so you realize, ****'s just make you look rather immature and show how short tempered you are. This is a simple discussion man, relax.

Also, congrats on your quick progress!!


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## Edward_Lin (Jan 10, 2012)

I've been CN ever since I started cubing about 4 years ago and I avg about 10.5. Honestly, I don't think it is that beneficial. While it is true that I get a few amazing solves once awhile because of an easy cross, I usually spend most of my inspection deciding which cross is the easiest. Most of the time I feel like all the crosses are all equally bad. I think the best way to go is just dual neutrality. You can find your cross quicker and have more time to plan the first pair. I think I can be faster if I stopped being CN


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Edward_Lin said:


> I've been CN since I started cubing about 4 years ago and I avg about 10.5. Honestly, I don't think it is that beneficial. While it is true that I get a few amazing solves once awhile because of an easy cross, I usually spend most of my inspection deciding which cross is the easiest. Most of the time I feel like all the crosses are all equally bad. I think the best way to go is just dual neutrality. You can find your cross quicker and have more time to plan the first pair


 
Yeah, sometimes I forget how much it helps, but then I try and do a fixed cross only average and see how my times become way more sporatic. I like that being CN helps to keep me relatively consistent.


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## Mollerz (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Wow, you are quite firey about this, I am just going to end this before it starts and say you are perfectly allowed to voice your concerns, but do so informedly. I responded to all of the claims you made in previous parts of the thread. I feel no need to respond to your asking for a list of the advantages as I say them in my video and in detail on many pages here. Also, I don't care if you wish to use ****'s to curse at me, but just so you realize, ****'s just make you look rather immature and show how short tempered you are. This is a simple discussion man, relax.
> 
> Also, congrats on your quick progress!!


 
I'm not cursing at you, believe me. I'm using a common British phrase (to put it lightly, p'd off) which I would use in day to day life but happens to be censored in this forum to shelter the younger ones amongst us. Your lack of response to anything I've actually written is more of a sign that you don't have a reasonable argument at all.

You say you have told us all the advantages, but all I can hear you say is that it will help you find an easier cross, which again is not necessarily an advantage since it may set you up for a worse solve in the other stages or because you have found an easier cross you may have missed out on an easy Xcross. The other advantage you mention is that it improves your lookahead. How is this so? You aren't looking for anything MORE, you are just looking for different colours. If you are a single colour cross solver with equal lookahead skill to a colour neutral solver then the chances are you will actually solve faster because you know the exact pieces, where they need to go and can plan ahead much more easily. Obviously if you can do this on any colour cross then your lookahead is superior and you deserve those sub-9 averages you should be getting since presumably your lookahead can handle your TPS.

The advantages that you list are not necessarily advantages. For whatever speed you are, there will always be something better for you to learn to actually get faster.


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## TheMachanga (Jan 10, 2012)

I've been CN all my life of cubing, and I f****** suck at cross building. That's the disadvantage. Once in a while, you get no obvious crosses to start with. I panic, and I dnf almost always. This happened to me in a competition too. I don't know how to no be CN. If I were to begin solving non-cn (which I tried before for fun), and do averages of 20+, I'm MUCH slower. There is no preference in cross colors, really, if you started early. If you were to switch now, the only advantage would be knowing how to solve those once in a blue moon scrambles that has no easy cases. However, because you started late, you will forever see white as an advantage color that you're better at.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yttrium said:


> I'm not cursing at you, believe me. I'm using a common British phrase (to put it lightly, p'd off) which I would use in day to day life but happens to be censored in this forum to shelter the younger ones amongst us. Your lack of response to anything I've actually written is more of a sign that you don't have a reasonable argument at all.
> 
> You say you have told us all the advantages, but all I can hear you say is that it will help you find an easier cross, which again is not necessarily an advantage since it may set you up for a worse solve in the other stages or because you have found an easier cross you may have missed out on an easy Xcross. The other advantage you mention is that it improves your lookahead. How is this so? You aren't looking for anything MORE, you are just looking for different colours. If you are a single colour cross solver with equal lookahead skill to a colour neutral solver then the chances are you will actually solve faster because you know the exact pieces, where they need to go and can plan ahead much more easily. Obviously if you can do this on any colour cross then your lookahead is superior and you deserve those sub-9 averages you should be getting since presumably your lookahead can handle your TPS.
> 
> The advantages that you list are not necessarily advantages. For whatever speed you are, there will always be something better for you to learn to actually get faster.



Lookahead improvement and a shorter cross isn't enough? How about more chances are getting x-crosses, confidence that you will almost never have an eight move cross unless you really suck, increased tps you will be able to turn at during cross because it is easier, and a lower standard deviation because you never have to do the hard crosses? All of these advantages which you can gain in every single solve. I don't know fo any other thing that you can learn/ practice that will help you this much... except maybe cross practice. anyway, this is not a forum to discuss CN it is a forum on how to change. I offered a way to change. Can we end it at that please?



TheMachanga said:


> I've been CN all my life of cubing, and I f****** suck at cross building. That's the disadvantage. Once in a while, you get no obvious crosses to start with. I panic, and I dnf almost always. This happened to me in a competition too. I don't know how to no be CN. If I were to begin solving non-cn (which I tried before for fun), and do averages of 20+, I'm MUCH slower. There is no preference in cross colors, really, if you started early. If you were to switch now, the only advantage would be knowing how to solve those once in a blue moon scrambles that has no easy cases. However, because you started late, you will forever see white as an advantage color that you're better at.



Not true at all, I started later and I am fine, plus I am great at crosses, this just seems to be your experience, not the necessary outcome of becoming CN.


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## Kyle™ (Jan 10, 2012)

Maybe I thought of something that people seem to be overlooking... I hear a lot of "The #1 and #2 solvers in the world are CN". Ok, but how about for the past 5~ years? Look back at any random year and see how many people in the top 10 were CN. What if you made this thread back then? See how it seems a bit biased now? Or even coincidence? What if next year the #1 and #2 spots aren't CN? Do you think Feliks or Rowe would be slower if they weren't CN ( How much could it REALLY be helping at their level? ) If I recall correctly, when Jean Pons set the WR and he did his cross on top, and almost everyone will tell you to form your cross on D. Jean Pons apparently did what was comfortable, not possibly fastest. I think Erik also used to do cross on top. Without all of that "WR holders use CN" jive, it just seems like a "Hey, make your cross .5 sec faster" method. I'll take my medicore look-ahead over that, thanks very much. No negativity intended here. 

Edit : If any new cubers enjoy the video hey should give it a shot though. Do what feels comfortable in my opinion.


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## TheMachanga (Jan 10, 2012)

KYLE ALLAIRE DROPS BOMBS! said:


> Maybe I thought of something that people seem to be overlooking... I hear a lot of "The #1 and #2 solvers in the world are CN". Ok, but how about for the past 5~ years? Look back at any random year and see how many people in the top 10 were CN. What if you made this thread back then? See how it seems a bit biased now? Or even coincidence? What if next year the #1 and #2 spots aren't CN? Do you think Feliks or Rowe would be slower if they weren't CN ( How much could it REALLY be helping at their level? ) If I recall correctly, when Jean Pons set the WR and he did his cross on top, and almost everyone will tell you to form your cross on D. Jean Pons apparently did what was comfortable, not possibly fastest. I think Erik also used to do cross on top. Without all of that "WR holders use CN" jive, it just seems like a "Hey, make your cross .5 sec faster" method. I'll take my medicore look-ahead over that, thanks very much. No negativity intended here. Just my opinion.


 
Yeah, but people were slower back then. Pons did his cross on top and had a WR. Ok. That's like saying "the old marathon WR was done with a pair of 1976 New Balance shoes. It's a lot slower than today's times, but hey, it was a world record, so it's the same as using modern shoes.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Those who are trying this please feel free to use this as a place to post your results and opinions, I would love to hear them. Also, I thank everyone who has provided me their feedback and opinions; even if I don't agree, your opinions help to better inform my statements and help others to see CN with as many filters as possible.


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## Kyle™ (Jan 10, 2012)

TheMachanga said:


> Yeah, but people were slower back then. Pons did his cross on top and had a WR. Ok. That's like saying "the old marathon WR was done with a pair of 1976 New Balance shoes. It's a lot slower than today's times, but hey, it was a world record, so it's the same as using modern shoes.


 
That analogy doesn't really make sense, especially since I made several points in my post. I wasn't just pointing out that past WR holders weren't CN, but that just because the current WR holder is CN doesn't make it better than non-CN. It's like saying 5 years ago "CN is bad because the WR doesn't use it". Different year, same logic. Learn what makes sense and feels fast. If people want to learn it so that they can improve their times, that's one thing. Doing it because the WR holder uses it = not a good reason to learn. Just sayin'.


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## Weston (Jan 10, 2012)

pjk said:


> To all: if you don't like the idea, then don't practice it and move on. If you like the idea, try it and post your results. It's okay to disagree. It is just an idea.
> 
> Has anyone who uses just a 1 color cross tried to do 5 averages of 100 with each of the 5 other colors (starting with the opposite color and then opposites from there on out)? I'd be curious of the results, and how they decline over each avg of 100.




White: 10.40, 10.54, 11.89, 9.93, 9.45 = 10.29
Yellow: 8.84, 10.44, 13.57, 13.03, 12.45 = 11.97
Blue: 14.75, 13.28, 13.96, 16.28, 14.00 = 14.24
Green: 14.30, 14.76, 16.92, 14.87, 13.86 = 14.94
Red: 13.03, 20.22, 17.43, 17.27, 12.72 = 15.91
Orange: 13.77, 16.54, 12.05, 14.32, 16.77 = 14.88

12.05 on orange was ZBLL. The rest were full step (too).

EDIT:
Oh, he said 5 averages of 100. lol
oops. I don't have time for that now. I might do it later.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Weston said:


> White: 10.40, 10.54, 11.89, 9.93, 9.45 = 10.29
> Yellow: 8.84, 10.44, 13.57, 13.03, 12.45 = 11.97
> Blue: 14.75, 13.28, 13.96, 16.28, 14.00 = 14.24
> Green: 14.30, 14.76, 16.92, 14.87, 13.86 = 14.94
> ...



If you can still be sub 15 with Cn and you haven't practiced, I think you would be able to do full CN with not that much effort. You should really try my idea man, you would benefit from it a lot.


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## joey (Jan 10, 2012)

His white avg was 10.2, sub 15 on other colours at that level is really easy..


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Maybe they haven't done it because they haven't had the right way to do it man. Just chill out and see if others like my method for switching.



What method? This is just advice on switching, nothing here is new.



jskyler91 said:


> How can you say my method doesn't work when you haven't tried it? It worked for me and I think it can for others. What "misinformation" am I spreading?



Of course it's possible to switch. The misinformation you are spreading is the level of effort and time involved. It's absurd to say that it will take a month to switch when you have no idea of the actual timeframe, and you are misleading people into thinking it requires less effort than it actually does.



jskyler91 said:


> I am saying that if you stick to it IIIIIIIII believe you can switch in a month.



You are saying that you /can/ switch in a month. If you portrayed this as if it was something you /thought/, I wouldn't have a problem. But you seem to be giving this figure of a month as if it is true.



jskyler91 said:


> Let's see if I am right instead of getting annoyed for no reason because YOU, who has not tried my method yet, thinks it wont work. Just because you gave up dude doesn't mean it is impossible.



I never gave up because I never tried switching. I don't want to. Waste of my time.

There are reasons for me to be annoyed that I've stated over and over again.



jskyler91 said:


> I am almost certain your reasons for it not working are because you didn't switch systematically.



You're assuming that I tried to switch. You're assuming that I want to switch.



jskyler91 said:


> PS. Can everyone stop hatting? I am simply trying to help out the forum with a new, structured way to switch, something which the forum did not have before.



I'm not 'hatting'. I'm being realistic and trying to explain to people how switching will take them longer than a month if they are already fast.

Also, there is nothing new here. There's nothing special about your 'method'.



jskyler91 said:


> If you don't think it will work then either try it 100 percent sticking to my method and prove me wrong or don't try it. Your repetitive nay saying without any real proof (this is a new method so trying to say that others have tried and failed does not count as proof, the only really proof you can provide is to actually try it and fail.) is just to qoute Kirjava "misinformation".


 
How come we are not allowed to explain to people that based on past experience and opbservation, you are not likely able to switch in a month, yet you seem to think it's perfectly fine to tell people that they can easily switch in a month if they want to.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> What method? This is just advice on switching, nothing here is new.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We will see, honestly I could care less what you think, I am simply trying to help people who wish to change. You have made your opinion known, now please stop littering this forum with useless arguing. This is not a forum to discuss Color Neutrality or whether or not you can/ should switch to it, it is simply a new way for people to try switching and a place where they can record their results. Thank you for your input Kirjava, have a good night.


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> We will see, honestly I could care less what you think



Thanks for your reply, I'm glad you addressed the points I made without ignoring them. It shows that you know what you're talking about.

(On a side note, I think you meant to say that you "couldn't care less", as what you said doesn't quite make sense)



jskyler91 said:


> I am simply trying to help people who wish to change.



I'm trying to help people not waste their time unless they're aware of exactly how much time they will be investing.



jskyler91 said:


> You have made your opinion known, now please stop littering this forum with useless arguing.



I'm contributing valuable information, no need to stop.



jskyler91 said:


> This is not a forum to discuss Color Neutrality or whether or not you can/ should switch to it



Of course it is. 



jskyler91 said:


> Thank you for your input Kirjava, have a good night.


 
Pfft, you're not thankful at all. XD


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## chardison1980 (Jan 10, 2012)

question?
are you able to make a video like this for block building methods, like ROUX, PETRUS, and WATERMAN?
id be interested to see it.


jskyler91 said:


> I hope this helps those of you wishing to change. Remember that if you want this to work you have to do what I said EVERY TIME. If you stick to it you can do it.
> 
> Also, please try this method before you say it won't work. I personally think it will, but if you don't think so please prove me wrong.
> 
> ...


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

chardison1980 said:


> question?
> are you able to make a video like this for block building methods, like ROUX, PETRUS, and WATERMAN?
> id be interested to see it.



I think this concept and method is rather universal. No matter what method you do you will still have to develop these same filters in relatively the same way. I guess I did mention a lot of f2l in here, but just replace that with whatever you do as your method. So for Roux this would be your 2x3x1 block pieces and for petrus this would be you 2x2x2 block pieces, I don't really know waterman so I don't know the equivalent. I could make the vid if enough people want it, but right now I am feeling a little less inclined to seeing as how some many people just ripped apart this vid when all I was trying to do was help.


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## Thorsten (Jan 10, 2012)

Hi there,

I fell over this thread and I have to say I always wanted to be ColorNeutral. Not only in the way "I want to be faster" but more the way it is more flexible while solving. I always asked myself why a red cross is not working for me. And it certainly is a limitation of my mind while solving.

I once tried to became CN with a system like change the color every solve. My problem with that system was that my mind couldn't change fast enough (not only the cross but the F2l pairs and the corresponding color scheme!). Practicing every color for a few days will maybe solve this problem.

So I'll give it a try.
I'll give feedback after a while, too.


PS: What I think is weird about ColorNeutrality or Fixed Cross is the ingnorance of some people. Everybody says he is right. I personally don't know what is better. And there is certainly no way to proof that one or the other way is better.

What most people forget about cubing is that its not all mathematical and it's not only about saving one or two moves at the cross. There is always a human being solving the cube and they are all different which means what can be good for one can be bad for the other.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Thorsten said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I fell over this thread and I have to say I always wanted to be ColorNeutral. Not only in the way "I want to be faster" but more the way it is more flexible while solving. I always asked myself why a red cross is not working for me. And it certainly is a limitation of my mind while solving.
> 
> ...


 
Very good points. I really hope this works for you.


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## Florian (Jan 10, 2012)

I like your video's, i might translate some to german, so they can benefit from it too
When you don't mind


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Florian said:


> I like your video's, i might translate some to german, so they can benefit from it too


 
Thank you, that would be really useful. It would be cool to see how my words translate


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## Cool Frog (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> I think this concept and method is rather universal. No matter what method you do you will still have to develop these same filters in relatively the same way. I guess I did mention a lot of f2l in here, but just replace that with whatever you do as your method. So for Roux this would be your 2x3x1 block pieces and for petrus this would be you 2x2x2 block pieces, I don't really know waterman so I don't know the equivalent.


 
For roux at least, This is not the method that should be followed. since there are MUCH more kinds of blocks that you can make than just the 6 crosses. 
Not to mention forcing yourself to build shitty blocks when the end goal is to have more options.


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## DYGH.Tjen (Jan 10, 2012)

Alright, jskyler, I'll also be trying out your switchingtoCN method, regardless of the pros' advice against it.  I don't really time myself often (and am slow, too), but I'll just try your method out, and have a little fun doing weird color crosses. Thanks for the video!

(on a side note, what exactly does 'cold turkey switching' mean? If I'm not mistaken, cold turkey means not doing white at all but picking the easiest cross available? Am I right? Tenkiu :3)


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## Jaycee (Jan 10, 2012)

Winning. Kirjava quoted pretty much every post I did earlier on. Winning.




pjk said:


> Has anyone who uses just a 1 color cross tried to do 5 averages of 100 with each of the 5 other colors (starting with the opposite color and then opposites from there on out)? I'd be curious of the results, and how they decline over each avg of 100.


 
I might try this one time. Not all on one day though... Maybe 3 days. ;_;


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2012)

DYGH.Tjen said:


> I'll also be trying out your switchingtoCN method, regardless of the pros' advice against it.


 
I'm not against switching at all. I'm just warning you that it's a lot more effort than you think and have been told.


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## DYGH.Tjen (Jan 10, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> I'm not against switching at all. I'm just warning you that it's a lot more effort than you think and have been told.


 
Hi Kirjava, yeah, I know, read the entire thing before posting. I'm slow after all, so it doesn't really matter. Thanks though!


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2012)

Cool. The slower you are when you switch, the easier it will be to do so.


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## chardison1980 (Jan 10, 2012)

no the video is great, i will keep it in the back of my mind when i go to frid, somewhere down the line if i do, or just use it for refrence to practice on, its just i am using roux, and the cross doesnt really come into play, but i see what your doing, its good to be color neutral, no matter what method. 



jskyler91 said:


> I think this concept and method is rather universal. No matter what method you do you will still have to develop these same filters in relatively the same way. I guess I did mention a lot of f2l in here, but just replace that with whatever you do as your method. So for Roux this would be your 2x3x1 block pieces and for petrus this would be you 2x2x2 block pieces, I don't really know waterman so I don't know the equivalent. I could make the vid if enough people want it, but right now I am feeling a little less inclined to seeing as how some many people just ripped apart this vid when all I was trying to do was help.



color neutral is good to try and learn, i for one, if i get a cube scrambled and handed to me, and there happens to be a partial cross on any other side but white, im going to go with it, why destroy that to build a white cross or you dominate color cross right,


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## Achifaifa (Jan 10, 2012)

I'll try this in february. As soon as I finish my exams, I'll try to switch to CN. Awesome vids, I hope I can do it.


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## PandaCuber (Jan 10, 2012)

I think being color neutral will help me as a roux solve. It would help me be a much more efficient block builder. 
Ive seen scrambles where, I could easily see a block on another color, like red. But I didnt do it, cause i can only do white. 
But i dont care if it takes me a month, or 2 or even 5 months, I wanna be color neutral. 
im doing this.

oh yeah, the best part is that im stilll learning new algs, new fingertricks and all that good stuff. Whos saying , " STOP LEARNING NEW STUFF" ? Nobody.


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## uberCuber (Jan 10, 2012)

This thread is amusing.

I'm going to do 5 avg100's with each non-white color, starting later today, and report back with the numbers that show that I haven't gotten anywhere near being color neutral.


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## Godmil (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm finding myself agreeing more and more with Kirjava lately. While I see advantages of being colour neutral I feel the effort may not justify it for faster people (I can easily see being CN taking a month if you average 30s, but many months if you're sub-15). I'm slightly colour blind and find finding pieces hard enough in F2L without mixing up the colours, However I am slightly inspired that everyone is putting in the effort.... so I'll take a few steps along the road and start learning yellow cross now.


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## 5BLD (Jan 10, 2012)

I just tried blue (on bottom), I can get sub-17... Tbh im already losing hope seeing as, as James pointed out, you're not 'really fast' so you can't even say that it'll be easy for people who are fast. Most of your arguments seem unjustified.

Also opposite colour neutral gets the best of both worlds.

Despite this, I'll keep at it, (I've only tried it for a few minutes so...) and at least become colour neutral with White/Yellow on L/R or U/D. Cool Frog did point out my hunch I had yesterday although I was caught up in the excitement after simply trying it briefly... That Roux is about efficiency and practicing, forcing yourself onto a certain block is counterproductive in a sense considering ultimately you'd pick THE most efficient block.

I don't know. I don't want to completely ditch this until I've tried. Ill continue for a week, if no success I'll work on White yellow on LR, and try to get fast at 'almost colour neutral', or partial colour neutral at the very least.


Like Godmil, I'm starting to agree with Kirjava more... 
Although it'd be an advantage, it would be so much effort to get down to my speed again. On top of that, I'm nearly sub-10 non-CN :/


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## iShadows (Jan 10, 2012)

How many solves per day?


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

iShadows said:


> How many solves per day?


 
I would say at least 100 for it to be productive.

Also to 5BLD, you should really reread this entire thread and see all of the arguments I have provided against Kir, he has not won and is not in any way right in this argument. The mods would not like me to clutter the forum more with reposting the links to my refutes (which I completely agree with seeing as how they have been already stated), but please read more closely man. You cannot expect yourself to be perfect on Blue when you have only been doing CN for 2 days!! My method calls for at least a month to be effective. If you want to be CN than stick to it all the way, but if you stop now, you cannot say it was my method that failed, but rather that you did not follow it and gave up. I know you can do it if you stick to it man


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## chrissyD (Jan 10, 2012)

I did an average of 12 earlier with green cross and got something pathetic like 40 seconds. Even if I did use your "method" and became colour neutral I wouldn't be any faster than I am now. So I really don't see the point in switching and wasting all that effort to make your cross one or two moves less on average.


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## Jaycee (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Also, please try *this method*





jskyler91 said:


> I think going cold turkey isn't *a very structured way* to do it





jskyler91 said:


> those who are trying *my method* will be the proof one way or another.





jskyler91 said:


> *I personally tried my approach and it worked*,





jskyler91 said:


> Just chill out and see if others like *my method for switching*. *How can you say my method doesn't work* when you haven't tried it? ... because YOU, who has *not tried my method* yet, thinks it wont work. ... because you didn't *switch systematically*. ... I am simply trying to help out the forum with *a new, structured way to switch, something which the forum did not have before.* ... *sticking to my method* and ... (this is *a new* method so ...)





jskyler91 said:


> Most people just say try switching, they never really *give you a method ..., I did.*



What's your method? Hard work, dedication, motivation, persistence, practice, etc etc? Olook I can do this too!

Go set the WR for every event. All it takes is practice!!!

Exaggerated but it's the second thing I thought of and it's still the same concept.

I am saying this again because you didn't answer it the first time.

You keep saying "my method" but there isn't one. There's nothing really new here.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> What's your method? Hard work, dedication, motivation, persistence, practice, etc etc? Olook I can do this too!
> 
> Go set the WR for every event. All it takes is practice!!!
> 
> ...


 
Your thread was previous post was deleted because I have already responded to you and because I made two videos detailing my method. In short, for those who are confused, my "method", which is more just a scheduled way to change, calls for a 30 day period in which you do not ever use your original color. During this 30 days you will spend approximately 5 days on each other color working through them systematically by color filter groups (opposite colors that share the same f2l pieces). There will be two review days where you will practice all the colors you have learned. The point of this method is that it makes sure that you have no relapses and thus are not tempted to stop learning CN before your mind has the time to get used to it. Most people either only try for a week or two as Weston did or they don't do this systematically. My method calls for a 100% CN solve policy, which most people do not normally follow and thus, IMO , fail. I do not claim this method to be fullproof or that you will be 100% perfect at CN by the end of it, I am just stating that if you stick to it you can become CN far faster than most people realize (approx. one month is you do not stop). I acknowledge that being faster will make the transition more uncomfortable, but not impossible. As many studies have shown it takes a month to change a habit, and I believe this applies for CN as well.


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## Jaycee (Jan 10, 2012)

Thank you for the response.



jskyler91 said:


> Your thread was deleted



What thread?


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> Thank you for the response.
> 
> 
> 
> What thread?


 
Sorry, I meant previous post 

Edit: changed



chrissyD said:


> I did an average of 12 earlier with green cross and got something pathetic like 40 seconds. Even if I did use your "method" and became color neutral I wouldn't be any faster than I am now. So I really don't see the point in switching and wasting all that effort to make your cross one or two moves less on average.



Please see my videos for the benefits of changing, but in short you would have better cross choice, more chances for extended crosses, a better lookahead due to your shorter cross, a smoother solve due to this increased lookahead, more confidence that you won't have a horrible cross and thus less stress during inspection, likely a lower standard deviation because you won't have that random horrible solve due to a crazy hard cross and ideally a lower solving time in the end because you had less moves and all of the benefits listed here. 

You can try my method for switching if you would like to make a change and try to gain these benefits, if they are not then don't


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## waffle=ijm (Jan 10, 2012)

With all this information and responses, I think that if you just stop saying "method" and replace it with "guide" or "advice," you'd suffer a lot less.

Back to the topic at hand, nice effort.

also (correct me if I'm wrong) there are 24 starting 1x2x3 blocks in Roux. Not just 6 crosses for CFOP or 8 2x2x2 blocks in petrus.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

Agreed, what I am proposing here is a guide for how to be color neutral quickly (generally in a month). I have revised the OP heavily so anyone wishing to better understand what this thread's function is should review it.


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## iShadows (Jan 10, 2012)

Man, I have been practicing for about 6 months, and my look ahead continues to suck, I really dont know what to do.. I follow all the tips guides, do slow solve while looking at the next pair I DO THAT ALL DAY, and I continue to get avg of 40. I AM MAD!!!


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## jskyler91 (Jan 10, 2012)

iShadows said:


> Man, I have been practicing for about 6 months, and my look ahead continues to suck, I really dont know what to do.. I follow all the tips guides, do slow solve while looking at the next pair I DO THAT ALL DAY, and I continue to get avg of 40. I AM MAD!!!



You probably just need to relax a little bid more. Speedsolving does not need to be fast or stressful, actually it tends to be fastest when it's neither. You need to just chill out and practice constant turning. If you are able to turn constantly at 2-3 tps then you can do sub 20. For sub 30 you only really need 2 tps. I am going to make a vid on this soon and I will pm you when it is on the forum.


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## iShadows (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> You probably just need to relax a little bid more. Speedsolving does not need to be fast or stressful, actually it tends to be fastest when it's neither. You need to just chill out and practice constant turning. If you are able to turn constantly at 2-3 tps then you can do sub 20. For sub 30 you only really need 2 tps. I am going to make a vid on this soon and I will pm you when it is on the forum.


 
Thanks , now I am not mad xD


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## Kirjava (Jan 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> you should really reread this entire thread and see all of the arguments I have provided against Kir, he has not won and is not in any way right in this argument.



Did anyone else notice this? *Is this guy serious?*


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## Specs112 (Jan 10, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Did anyone else notice this? *Is this guy serious?*


 
That post... I just... I don't even know anymore. There's no way that can be serious.

ಠ_ಠ


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## Weston (Jan 10, 2012)

Specs112 said:


> That post... I just... I don't even know anymore. There's no way that can be serious.
> 
> ಠ_ಠ


 "I could care less"


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## Kyle™ (Jan 10, 2012)

GEEZE THOM. ARGUEHOLIC.
I tried being CN today. I'm about 2.5 sec slower. Tried with CFOP though...I only average 16~ with it in the first place. I'm bad.
/end post


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## Specs112 (Jan 10, 2012)

Weston said:


> "I could care less"


 
People who think that it's "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" should be taken out back behind the woodshed and beaten with a blunt object.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 11, 2012)

Specs112 said:


> People who think that it's "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" should be taken out back behind the woodshed and beaten with a blunt object.


 


Weston said:


> "I could care less"


 


Specs112 said:


> That post... I just... I don't even know anymore. There's no way that can be serious.
> 
> ಠ_ಠ


 


Kirjava said:


> Did anyone else notice this? *Is this guy serious?*



Did anyone see this: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/rules.php
Particularly: a. No Flaming or Trolling:
Respect other users and try to contribute to a nice ambiance on the forum. No personal attacks, or provocation of other forum members. If you are being attacked or provoked, do not feel compelled to defend your honor here; report the offender to a moderator. See examples of Flaming/Trolling in the appendix section below.

Seriously guys grow up, I am simply trying to help people out here and do something for the forum. Also, if the best argument against me you have is that I made a typo then great job Kir, you are just proving me right all the more.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 11, 2012)

This thread is going nowhere. For everyone's sanity, I am closing it. Watch jskyler's video and make your own opinion on it, but keeping this thread open is not good for the forum.


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