# Simple Idea for 4x4 BLD Centers



## byu (Mar 20, 2009)

So I have looked at some tutorials for centers BLD and none make much sense to me. So I thought if I used Ubl center as buffer and got three algs to just swap that with Ufr, Ufl, and Ubr, and used setup moves, it would work. Is this practical?


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2009)

What algs would you use to do this? Are there any that will just affect 2 centers and nothing else? I don't know any algorithms like that - when I need to swap two pieces, I do a 3-cycle commutator including another piece of the same color as one of the others.

If I recall correctly Derrick Eide used a similar method for 4x4x4 BLD; he had some complex algorithm for swapping two centers, although I think it might have swapped two corners as well, and he just swapped the corners back and forth until he was done. But I might not be remembering that correctly. He was able to go sub-15 with it, but that's just because he's very fast - the problem with a method like that is that it's a LOT of moves; it's unlikely you could get world-class times with a method like that.


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## mande (Mar 20, 2009)

byu said:


> So I thought if I used Ubl center as buffer and got three algs to just swap that with Ufr, Ufl, and Ubr, and used setup moves, it would work. Is this practical?



I'm happy using 3 cycles for centers. I set up 2 of the center pieces involved in a 3 cycle on the U face, and the third on a non-D face, then I use a commutator. I guess if you learn those 3 algos you mentioned, you will use lots of moves and also it will solve only 1 center at a time.


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## Gparker (Mar 20, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> What algs would you use to do this? * Are there any that will just affect 2 centers and nothing else? * I don't know any algorithms like that - when I need to swap two pieces, I do a 3-cycle commutator including another piece of the same color as one of the others.
> 
> If I recall correctly Derrick Eide used a similar method for 4x4x4 BLD; he had some complex algorithm for swapping two centers, although I think it might have swapped two corners as well, and he just swapped the corners back and forth until he was done. But I might not be remembering that correctly. He was able to go sub-15 with it, but that's just because he's very fast - the problem with a method like that is that it's a LOT of moves; it's unlikely you could get world-class times with a method like that.



like this? this commutator switches any 2 center peices

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jSkk4pNo4


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## qqwref (Mar 20, 2009)

.........Gparker, that's a commutator. It does a 3-cycle. They all do.


There's no way to switch 2 centers without messing up edges or corners. However you can always use two buffers (say, Ufr and Ufl, then you can use a Niklas-comm for F centers and a modified A perm for U ones) or just solve the centers in 3-cycles.


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## flee135 (Mar 20, 2009)

@Gparker: Actually, this commutator switches 3 center pieces. It looks like it only switches 2 pieces, but this is because there are multiple center pieces with the same color.

@byu: If you must, one option is to just memorize one commutator, its inverse, and which pieces it cycles. Set-up moves may be a bit complicated, but it will work every time. However, I suggest that you stick to learning commutators. It took me a long time to understand them, and I had to read a variety of different sources. Learning 3x3 commutators is a good way to start too.


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## Gparker (Mar 20, 2009)

if we found it which 3 itd be cool


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## flee135 (Mar 20, 2009)

Gparker said:


> if we found it which 3 itd be cool


The first algorithm in the video switches:
Ubr -> Ful -> Fur

I'm not good with center notation, but I think that's it. I could be wrong.


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## Lucas Garron (Mar 20, 2009)

T-perm, anyone?


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 20, 2009)

Lucas Garron said:


> T-perm, anyone?



Setup moves would really be tricky with that though, wouldn't they?


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## qqwref (Mar 20, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> Lucas Garron said:
> 
> 
> > T-perm, anyone?
> ...



Well, you could do T-centers that way, by setting up with l moves. No way I'd want to do X-centers that way, though... Eww.


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## rachmaninovian (Mar 21, 2009)

i tried bld centres (for 4x4...) but i always FAIL at tracking the centres...you know since niklas is a 3cycle stuff do get moved around pretty often...algs that i use for speedsolve do work as well i guess? but i need help with tracking the pieces..boooooo.


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## sukesh12 (Sep 13, 2012)

That T-perm, post by Garron, is already used by me I guess. I use it 4x4 BLD centers. It may sound pretty easy but it is really hard to remember the set up moves and to undo them. This is based on my experience.



rachmaninovian said:


> i tried bld centres (for 4x4...) but i always FAIL at tracking the centres...you know since niklas is a 3cycle stuff do get moved around pretty often...algs that i use for speedsolve do work as well i guess? but i need help with tracking the pieces..boooooo.


I also tried to use niklas but..... It failed.


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## riffz (Sep 13, 2012)

The U2 method sounds a lot better than this IMO, but I still think center comms are by far the easiest and can be learned with minimal effort.



sukesh12 said:


> It may sound pretty easy but it is really hard to remember the set up moves and to undo them.



Sounds stressful and rage inducing to me.


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## pedrinroque (Sep 13, 2012)

I use A perm
x' r U' r d2 r' U r d2 r2
x' r2 d2 r' U' r d2 r' U r'


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