# Should relays be modified for the Weekly Competition?



## Mike Hughey (Dec 10, 2019)

I have been somewhat hesitant to bring this up, but there was a lot of discussion about it in the thread for new events this year, and I felt I should at least take a survey to get a feel for what people really think.

I would like to start by saying that I am not sure I will implement anything from this discussion by 2020. It is pretty likely that, unless the opinions expressed here are overwhelming and very large, I will merely take them as advisement for possible change in 2021. I already will have a lot to do for 2020 by having to add at least one new event (and probably two), and I'm not sure I want to commit to changes to the relays as well. But it makes sense to start a discussion about it.

One reason I am hesitant to make changes to the relays is that we have already had churn on this in the past, and I prefer continuity in the weekly competitions if possible. From 2010 through 2016, 2-6 and 2-7 relays were discontinued, and by popular demand, they were brought back in 2017. I wish we had simply left them in place during those years; I certainly don't want this sort of thing to happen again if possible. I feel it's better to move slowly on such changes, especially since the weekly competition doesn't really hurt anyone by being too many events. I prefer to be somewhat slow to add new events, and extremely slow to remove them.

PLEASE NOTE that the poll here is merely to gauge opinion and interest. It is not in any way binding. Again, I will likely not make any changes to the relays for 2020. But if I see a particularly significant consensus opinion desiring a specific change here, I might consider making the change in 2021. And I won't rule out the possibility of a 2020 change if the response is truly overwhelming and the reasoning makes sense to me.

Please discuss any opinions or ideas on this topic in this thread.


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## Underwatercuber (Dec 10, 2019)

Removing all relays is my first preference, all but 2-7 is my second preference, and removing all but 2-4 and 2-7 is my third preference


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## Kit Clement (Dec 10, 2019)

I'm mostly in favor of fewer relays, regardless of the option that is taken. At the very least, I find 2-6 to be redundant.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 10, 2019)

Sorry, I just realized I left out the option of dropping all relays. I have added that option. Feel free to change your choice if you prefer that choice.


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## GAN 356 X (Dec 10, 2019)

This is probably not a very popular idea and I dont like it much myself but its an idea all the same

It might be cool to make a relay for 4 3x3s where its similar to multi blind in that inspection counts in the solve. So you would be given a scramble; for all 4 of these cubes, then you can inspect all of them before you start. This would help to pick out the easier and harder scrambles so you can order them in a way that you like, and may also help for smoother transitions between the cubes. This idea is not the best I've had, but thought I would put it out there


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## ProStar (Dec 10, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> This is probably not a very popular idea and I dont like it much myself but its an idea all the same
> 
> It might be cool to make a relay for 4 3x3s where its similar to multi blind in that inspection counts in the solve. So you would be given a scramble; for all 4 of these cubes, then you can inspect all of them before you start. This would help to pick out the easier and harder scrambles so you can order them in a way that you like, and may also help for smoother transitions between the cubes. This idea is not the best I've had, but thought I would put it out there



I'd prefer just a regular 3 or 4 3x3 relay, with 15 secs of inspection like the other relays.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 11, 2019)

DarkSavage said:


> I'd prefer just a regular 3 or 4 3x3 relay, with 15 secs of inspection like the other relays.


While this is a reasonable suggestion, I consider it to be somewhat unrelated to this thread and just another different possible event. And this event did get a number of votes this year, but not enough to make it to the poll stage.


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## BenChristman1 (Dec 11, 2019)

Even though I don't compete in 2-6 and 2-7 (I have a Shengshou 6x6 and 7x7), I still think some people have fun with them. Personally, I enjoy doing 2-4 and 2-5.


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## weatherman223 (Dec 11, 2019)

I think that 2-6 should be the only one removed. I find it redundant.


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## One Wheel (Dec 12, 2019)

Despite the fact that it’s my favorite, I have to admit that 2-6 is redundant. I also very much like the idea of splitting into 2-4 and 5-7. Anything that ends up with a 5-7 relay is my top choice.


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## xyzzy (Dec 13, 2019)

2-4 and 2-7: keep.
2-5: remove, maybe.
2-6: remove.

Reasons:

(i) 2-5 and 2-6 together take about the same amount of time as 2-7, and I'd rather have 2-7 than both 2-5 and 2-6.

(ii) 2-4 is a lot more newbie-friendly, as it doesn't require one to have all of the big cubes to participate. (Not everyone has a full set of WCA puzzles! It might not be _expensive_ per se to get good budget cubes these days, what with YJ releasing the Yu v2 series, but getting a full 2-7 set will still cost a decent amount of money.)

(iii) 2-5 is the biggest relay where the conventional methods used to solve the puzzles are different (CLL/EG, CFOP/Roux, Yau, redux), whereas in 2-6 and 2-7, the very-big cubes are all solved with redux anyway, so there's less variety. But I don't like 5×5×5 and that's a huge factor in the 2-5 relay times, so I wouldn't mind seeing it go regardless.


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## Nutybaconator (Dec 14, 2019)

Personally I don't think there is any point in 2-6


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Dec 14, 2019)

I am the one vote for dropping all relays.

Not a huge fan, don’t think they are very fun, and they give somewhat unnecessary points in the weekly comp for people who can solve higher order puzzles.


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## One Wheel (Dec 14, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> They give somewhat unnecessary points in the weekly comp for people who can solve higher order puzzles.



Huh?


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## ProStar (Dec 14, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> ImmolatedMarmoset said:
> 
> 
> > I am the one vote for dropping all relays.
> ...



My thoughts exactly


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Dec 14, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> Huh?


I can’t solve 5x5, or anything higher than that. I just feel like you’re getting extra points if you can, because you just do the 2-5 relay, and not only do you get the normal 5x5 points, you also get 2-5 relay points.

Not really important, just a thought.


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## ProStar (Dec 14, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> I can’t solve 5x5, or anything higher than that. I just feel like you’re getting extra points if you can, because you just do the 2-5 relay, and not only do you get the normal 5x5 points, you also get 2-5 relay points.
> 
> Not really important, just a thought.



That's like saying 3bld should be removed because your getting points for knowing how to solve it blindfolded and can solve it normally...


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## One Wheel (Dec 14, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> I can’t solve 5x5, or anything higher than that. I just feel like you’re getting extra points if you can, because you just do the 2-5 relay, and not only do you get the normal 5x5 points, you also get 2-5 relay points.
> 
> Not really important, just a thought.


You get points for solving puzzles. More puzzles = more points. Don’t try to bring everybody else down to your level, come up to theirs.


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Dec 14, 2019)

One Wheel said:


> You get points for solving puzzles. More puzzles = more points. Don’t try to bring everybody else down to your level, come up to theirs.


Fair point. However, I additionally feel like having 4 different relays is redundant. I’m not against relays necessarily, but some of them are unnecessary.


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Dec 14, 2019)

DarkSavage said:


> That's like saying 3bld should be removed because your getting points for knowing how to solve it blindfolded and can solve it normally...


Not really, to be honest, but I see your point


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## One Wheel (Dec 14, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> Fair point. However, I additionally feel like having 4 different relays is redundant. I’m not against relays necessarily, but some of them are unnecessary.


The only one that I really see as redundant is 2-6, but on the other hand it’s a series, why not complete it?


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