# Stachu Korick's New Method :)



## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

Hello fellow speedsolvers,

Over the past month, I have been playing around with both ZZ and Roux, and have been enjoying them both very much, as a sort of break from "plain old Fridrich."

While toying around, (no pun intended) an idea came to me. Since, in Roux, there is time spent dealing with two [1x2x3] blocks, and have to deal later with edge orientation, would ZZ not help here?

Here is what I propose, and after a few tests, find very successful:

-EO-Just like in ZZ's "EOline," just without the line
-One [1x2x3] block on the left side, using U, L, R, and sometimes (MU2M') or (M'U2M)
-A [1x2x2] block on the right, setting up a WV(Winter Variation/F2LL) case.
-Corner Permutation + Edge Permutation (2 or possible 1 step(s), although I am currently using 2)

If you are new to either or both of the base methods, I will now provide various resouces:

*ZZ:*
-SpeedSolving Thread
-"Official" ZZ guide
Esperantanaso's YouTube ZZ Tutorial
Winter Variation Page #1
Winter Variation Page #2
Winter Variation Page #3

*Roux:*
Original Website
Waffles' YouTube Tutorial
jus102u's YouTube Tutorial (...meh)


It took me quite a while to find all of these links, and I definitely think that this method has potential, so I'd appreciate some response.

Thanks a lot,
StachuK1992


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## Gparker (Apr 22, 2009)

seems very... interesting. ill consider learning some ZZ since ive done roux solves. but this looks like it has potential. but wouldent the EO change as your doing 1x2x3s? im a noob when it comes to this but wouldent it be harder to look ahead for EO?


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

It sounds pretty simple, and I don't think you can do M U moves, because it messes stuff up. (EO)


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

byu said:


> It sounds pretty simple, and I don't think you can do M U moves, because it messes stuff up. (EO)



You can do M2 Moves...or something like "M U2 M"...you just gotta watch what you're doing

BTW...considering that I just got 2 sub-30 solves with this, and I can't get sub-30 with either of the base methods, I'm kinda liking this

After 10 solves, I got a 25.42 solve...My Fridrich average is 23 seconds...NICE!


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

M U2 M' is OK, but not M U M'

I'm going to do a solve with this right now.


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

sweet...I assume you know some Roux?

Actually, this doesn't really have too much Roux in it...besides the 1x2x3 Blocks and the 6Edge Permutation.


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## waffle=ijm (Apr 22, 2009)

the korick method


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

waffle=ijm said:


> the korick method


haha...IDK what or if I'd call it...
hmmm


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

Korick method first solve

36.12

Pretty good! I don't know WV so I did a F2Lslot+Corners OLL


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

meh...I don't like "Korick Method"
Still, it feels A LOT like a ZZ solve, until you see the majestic 1x2x3's


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## waffle=ijm (Apr 22, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> waffle=ijm said:
> 
> 
> > the korick method
> ...



looks like the Korick method 

bleh 58.14. I'm not that good with that EOline idea of ZZ
definite potential CLS to orient corners


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

Well...Waffles, once gotten the EO, what (time) do you get from there?


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## waffle=ijm (Apr 22, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> Well...Waffles, once gotten the EO, what (time) do you get from there?



like 34 seconds, I've only seen 1 EO tutorial for ZZ and I've been trying to remember what to do... so lots and lots and lots of hesitation. As a strict roux solver, I really don't practice other methods so much


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

No. I mean like, once your done EO, start the timer.
Then, from there, what do you get for the rest of the cube.
I'll just add a "standard EO time" to your time from there.


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

Korick Method Avg. 5

1. 36.12
2. (34.29)
3. 35.17
4. (37.28)
5. 36.88
AVERAGE 3/5 = 36.05

This is a good method. I see high potential for the Korick method. Stachu, I've made a variation of this method that I think is quite a bit faster, if you'd like, I'll do a write up and post it here. If you don't want that to happen, tell me.


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

I'd be VERY open to suggestions.
Give it a shot.


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## miniGOINGS (Apr 22, 2009)

byu said:


> This is a good method. I see high potential for the Korick method. Stachu, I've made a variation of this method that I think is quite a bit faster, if you'd like, I'll do a write up and post it here. If you don't want that to happen, tell me.



i want to see this!!! im liking roux right now but having a little problem with fixing the bad edges,, this might help a lot!


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> byu said:
> 
> 
> > This is a good method. I see high potential for the Korick method. Stachu, I've made a variation of this method that I think is quite a bit faster, if you'd like, I'll do a write up and post it here. If you don't want that to happen, tell me.
> ...



I'm writing it right now, might take a while. I'm still trying to explain EO.


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## miniGOINGS (Apr 22, 2009)

do you have any good sites for EO that i could look at?


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## waffle=ijm (Apr 22, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> No. I mean like, once your done EO, start the timer.
> Then, from there, what do you get for the rest of the cube.
> I'll just add a "standard EO time" to your time from there.



OOooOO ok 
from 3 different solve about 27-28secs. I'm not accustomed to ZZ so I had a little trouble grasping to the first block so I didn't mess up the EO. I guess I'm a little to used to M-slice pairing.


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

One tip...after doing EO, put "lousy" edges in the FD and BD positions, as to not have to look there later for non-lousy ones

lousy edges are top-color (Yellow for me) edges (i.e.-YB, YG, YR, YO)


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## waffle=ijm (Apr 22, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> One tip...after doing EO, put "lousy" edges in the FD and BD positions, as to not have to look there later for non-lousy ones
> 
> lousy edges are top-color (Yellow for me) edges (i.e.-YB, YG, YR, YO)



Hmmm. I'm starting to like this method...probably for OH
I'll try to do a little bit of ZZ and WV to get used to this.


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

Don't worry about WV...If you know the CLL algs, use those instead!


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

You're *starting* to like this method? I think it's incredible, and I'm working on a variation that might be a little bit faster.


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

byu said:


> You're *starting* to like this method? I think it's incredible, and I'm working on a variation that might be a little bit faster.



haha...yay!
I have a follower!

Yu-Korick Method?


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## waffle=ijm (Apr 22, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> Don't worry about WV...If you know the CLL algs, use those instead!



my CLL mess up orientation because I use roux and I don't need to worry about the orientation until the end. I have to do the orientation and permutation separate for now unless I come with a CLS case I know

and I think this has a lot of OH potential for me NOT FOR REGULAR SOLVES 

ROUX FOR LIFE!!!


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## miniGOINGS (Apr 22, 2009)

how about just YK?


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

I like Korick-Yu or KY or YK


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

YKZZROUX!!


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## waffle=ijm (Apr 22, 2009)

byu said:


> I like Korick-Yu or KY or YK



YK please....
KY reminds me too much of KY jelly


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## miniGOINGS (Apr 22, 2009)

YK it is then?


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

Yu-Korick, YK for short. We'll leave it as that.


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## waffle=ijm (Apr 22, 2009)

byu said:


> Yu-Korick, YK for short. We'll leave it as that.



I'll be waiting for a video guide now after your written guide


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

Let's worry about the actual method first, before the name; haha
still..YKZZROUX...just say that...
Imagine at a comp.

"Hey. I'm James. I used Fridrich; what about you"
"Oh. I'm Stachu, and I use YKZZROUX"
pronounced:
"Why-Kay-ZeeZee-Roo"(like Kangaroo)


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> Let's worry about the actual method first, before the name; haha
> still..YKZZROUX...just say that...
> Imagine at a comp.
> 
> ...



James: What?
Stachu: YKZZROUX
James: Wakazayroun?


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## waffle=ijm (Apr 22, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> Let's worry about the actual method first, before the name; haha
> still..YKZZROUX...just say that...
> Imagine at a comp.
> 
> ...



LOL if i ever give up roux. this would be my new method just so I could say that


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

Unfortunately, I have to leave now, and will next be checking this thread tomm. at 6:08

Until then, "Why-Kay-ZeeZee-Roo"


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

Whykayzeezeeroo to you too.


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

Yu-Korick Method (YK)
Descrition 1.0

STEP 1. EO

This step orients all edges on the cube. The definition of oriented is that the edge can be moved to the correct location without using quarter turns from F or B (F2 and B2 are OK)

During inspection of the cube, try to determine which pieces are oriented. The main method for this is to do this.

If 2 edges are misoriented.
Place 1 in the F or B layers, make a F or B turn, now 4 edges are misoriented.

If 4 edges are misoriented.
Place them all in F or B layers, and do an F or B turn.

If 6+ edges are misoriented.
Orient 4, and solve the new case.

There are sometimes better ways to solve, such as the Petrus edge orienter which orients FR and UL (F' U' F).

STEP 2. 1x2x3 on the Left Side

This is basically the first step of the Roux method. Nothing is solved, but we have all edges oriented. The idea is to create a 1x2x3 brick without ever using quarter turns from F or B.



A warning! If you do M or M', the F or B colors have now become the U and D layers, so you can't turn those quarter turns. For example, M U M' will disturb orientation, and M U2 M' will preserve it.

A good idea is to use the R slice as a working area, where you can pair up pieces and then use the U layer to transport them to the L slice. Remember never to use quarter turns from F or B.

STEP 3. Line

This solves DF and DB. It should be done intuitively, and without messing up edge orientation.

Some hints:

If the edge piece is in the U layer, put it on top of where it needs to go. 
For DF, now do M' U2 M.
For DB, now do M U2 M'.

If it's in the R layer, do a R layer turn to bring it to U and do a U insertion.

STEP 4a. Finish F2L

This is basically the Petrus F2L step. Using R and U turns only, finish the entire F2L. This can be done by blockbuilding, or by a simple Fridrich system where you add a cross piece and then do Fridrich F2L to solve. This is not the only option, you can also do a method that will guarantee an OLL skip, see STEP 4b.

STEP 4b. Finish F2L

This is a different way of doing step 4a. Use blockbuilding methods to solve a 2x2x1 brick with the DBR corner, RD and RB corners. Then, use WV (Winter Variation) to solve the last two pieces in the F2L and orient all corners at the same time, therefore creating an OLL skip (since you preserved Edge Orientation).

STEP 5a. OLL/PLL

This is probably the easiest method to use. If you know 2-look OLL with Fridrich, you know 1-Look OLL for YK since edges are already oriented. If you know full PLL as well, you have a 2 look LL. If you know 2-look PLL, you have a 3-look LL.

STEP 5b. PLL

This applies only if you used step 4b, and not 4a. You now have an OLL skip, so if you learn PLL, you have a 1-look LL.

STEP 5c. ZBLL

This is the hardest method to learn, because of the amount of algorithms. Solve with Step 4a, and then do ZBLL to give you a 1-look LL. It's much easier to use WV instead for a 1-look LL.

------------------

If you use Yu-Korick, and you want to say the exact name, use the letter names for steps 4 and 5. For example, if you used step 4a and 5c, your method would be Yu-Korick AC. This is just to make things easier when explaining.




And that's it! I'm still improving it. But I'll tell you this, I got a 28.27 average of 5 using YK AA. It's pretty fast. I'm learning WV so I can do YK BB


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## ErikJ (Apr 22, 2009)

I think doing EO first would make the first 1x2x3 much slower than normal. and regular EO for roux only take about 1.5 seconds anyway (faster than ZZ EO).


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## blah (Apr 22, 2009)

Not new. Thought of it before, looong ago. Didn't like it.

ErikJ's got all the right reasons spelled out.

And, this really doesn't deserve a name of its own. Name it EO-Roux if you want, but there's no way you're taking all the credit away from Roux himself.


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## byu (Apr 22, 2009)

blah said:


> Not new. Thought of it before. Didn't like it.



You thought of this exact same thing? What didn't you like about it? I think it's really good...


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## blah (Apr 22, 2009)

In any case, if you insist on combining ZZ and Roux, here's another idea I've had not long after having the one you mentioned:

EOLine as usual. Only this time, the Line in EOLine is DR and DL. Then Fridrich those 4 slots. Use (slightly more advanced) phasing during the last slot to permute 2 opposite edges. Then a 1-look last step.


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## DavidWoner (Apr 22, 2009)

When did pre-orient become the basis for every new method? People seem to think that 2gen pairs are the greatest thing ever, when most cases are either already 2gen after rotating, or just much nicer 3gen (R U' R' (U+d) R' U' R remains my definitive example)

I also don't get what is so great about WV. Most of the cases seem like a lot of moves for not much work. People seem so opposed to doing regular OLL these days and I don't get why.



blah said:


> In any case, if you insist on combining ZZ and Roux, here's another idea I've had not long after having the one you mentioned:
> 
> EOLine as usual. Only this time, the Line in EOLine is DR and DL. Then Fridrich those 4 slots. Use (slightly more advanced) phasing during the last slot to permute 2 opposite edges. Then a 1-look last step.



It seems like you would be wasting the formation of the line though. With normal ZZ getting the other 2 D-layer edges in place is really easy, it seems needlessly complicated here.



ErikJ said:


> I think doing EO first would make the first 1x2x3 much slower than normal. and regular EO for roux only take about 1.5 seconds anyway (faster than ZZ EO).



Major high-five.


Time to split this up and take it apart.



byu said:


> Yu-Korick Method (YK)
> Descrition 1.0
> 
> STEP 1. EO
> ...



I'm pretty sure setting up and doing F R F' etc. will always be a better way of orienting 2 edges.



> STEP 2. 1x2x3 on the Left Side
> 
> This is basically the first step of the Roux method. Nothing is solved, but we have all edges oriented. The idea is to create a 1x2x3 brick without ever using quarter turns from F or B.
> 
> ...



Move-restricted blockbuilding kind of sucks. The advantage of blockbuilding vs CE pairs is the lower move count of the blockbuilding. Using R as a "working area" to make pairs also defeats the purpose of blockbuilding, although its a result of pre-orienting. 



> STEP 3. Line
> 
> This solves DF and DB. It should be done intuitively, and without messing up edge orientation.
> 
> ...



Now we come to the major downfall of this method. Why would you split up the EO and the line? Its like making your cross with 2 flipped edges and an adjacent swap! You're taking EOline, replacing it with a step that takes virtually the same number of moves but does half the work, then going back later and finishing with more pointless moves. Not to mention the extra moves caused by having pieces from your first block located in DF/DB.



> STEP 4a. Finish F2L
> 
> This is basically the Petrus F2L step. Using R and U turns only, finish the entire F2L. This can be done by blockbuilding, or by a simple Fridrich system where you add a cross piece and then do Fridrich F2L to solve. This is not the only option, you can also do a method that will guarantee an OLL skip, see STEP 4b.
> 
> ...



Most of what I said about step 2 applies here as well.

I also don't know why everyone thinks WV is so great, CLS would probably be better since your edges are already oriented.



> STEP 5a. OLL/PLL
> 
> This is probably the easiest method to use. If you know 2-look OLL with Fridrich, you know 1-Look OLL for YK since edges are already oriented. If you know full PLL as well, you have a 2 look LL. If you know 2-look PLL, you have a 3-look LL.
> 
> ...



For 5b and 5c, you may have a 1-look LL, but you have a 2-look Last Slot.


Okay, what you just outlined is nothing more than a broken form of ZZ. You waste moves and time by not combining steps 1 and 3, and step 2 suffers as a result. There's really nothing original here, and I definitely believe blah came up with this exact thing when he went through his phase where he played around with new methods.

What Stachu described is a bit more efficient, I would describe it as pre-orient Roux with WV+CPLL instead of CMLL. However, the blockbuilding still suffers from the pre-orient, and I think COLL would be better than WV+CPLL.

I don't think either method really stacks up to its unaltered parent, and don't see any clear advantages over any method being used widely right now.


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## Ellis (Apr 22, 2009)

^Epic win.


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## blah (Apr 22, 2009)

Vault312 said:


> It seems like you would be wasting the formation of the line though. With normal ZZ getting the other 2 D-layer edges in place is really easy, it seems needlessly complicated here.



Have you ever tried ZZ? Or are you just assuming? I believe I've done enough ZZ (been using it for half a year for OH) to know that although it's ridiculously easy to get those 2 edges in, it also wastes a ridiculous number of moves just to solve 2 pieces.

I'm not a big fan of this approach either, that's why I'm not using it although I came up with it independently. All I did was suggest an alternative approach to what Stachu suggested.


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## DavidWoner (Apr 22, 2009)

blah said:


> Vault312 said:
> 
> 
> > It seems like you would be wasting the formation of the line though. With normal ZZ getting the other 2 D-layer edges in place is really easy, it seems needlessly complicated here.
> ...



Yes I do know that finishing the cross after EOline is very inefficient. That's why I always try to blockbuild whenever I play around with ZZ.

I also didn't realize that you were suggesting your method as a modification of Stachu's, I thought you were proposing it as a separate idea. I guess it would work better that way, it would allow you to use CLS and PLL which would be better than WV+CPLL+M-slice EP


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 22, 2009)

To clear up some confusion:
I originally did not want to take credit for anything (well, as far as using a name)
I originally was fine with "ZZ-Roux".
I did not expect this method to take over amazingly well, and was even surprised when byu was so excited.

While executing this method, I think that it feels a lot more like zz than roux, mainly because of the EO throughout.

Again, I ask the following:
Using similar ideas, do you(plural) think that there IS a better way to beat both Roux and ZZ?

Cheers,
Stachu


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## mazei (Apr 22, 2009)

Corner First-ZZ ftw!!

I think there isn't a variation that can beat both Roux and ZZ. Combining the two is kinda pointless because one of the major advantages of ZZ is not having to regrip and doing only R,U,L turns which is really finger-trick friendly. Roux also have that same advantages, but with an addition to M-slice moves to the group of moves(Or maybe it was just me that never regripped during Roux solves). And on another note, blockbuilding shouldn't something that becomes restricted like how Fridrich F2L is.


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## Athefre (Apr 22, 2009)

The problem I have with this topic's idea, ZZ, and most other methods that have edge orienting as their first step is that you spend your pre-inspection time planning the edge orienting moves, then after they are oriented, the pieces you need for your next step are all over the cube.

If you are going to orient all edges first, you could have the second step be solving some corners. Even with that though, immediately after that step, the cube becomes very restricted. Pre-orientation feels terrible.


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