# Cubing on youtube is over with COPPA



## ElephantCuber (Nov 20, 2019)




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## Etotheipi (Nov 20, 2019)

I feel like overlap between YT kids and normal youtube should exist, 13+ people should still be able to view, search, and comment on content marked for kids on the main platform. The child safety part is great, just they don't have to do it in a way that cripples all channels that involve something kids would like. And just because something interests kids doesn't mean that they are the target audience, merely a subset of that.


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 20, 2019)

That makes me angry... As long as J Perm can still make great videos I will be mostly happy


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## White KB (Nov 20, 2019)

Elephant Cuber-
YAYAYAYAYAYAAAAAAY

COPPA-
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Now my YouTube channel will SUFFER!
I wish...
MMPH!
I hate this!
Why...?
I'm about to cry right now! ...
Like, I was about to get 50 subs, and now! ...
I'm just going to have no way to... to grow, to... to do anything!
COPPA is stupid!

I mean, I thought you could solve any illegal problem by suing them! (irrational I know, but take the tobacco industry as an example)
But this injustice is the law!
YouTube is so stupid for AGREEING with them!

I don't hate the video (Thank you so much (not sarcastic) for informing me) but now my day is considerably worse.

Anyway, do you people have any tips now that this new stupid anarchic unnecessary law is in its disgusting place in a now much worse society?


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## White KB (Nov 20, 2019)

Petition for banning COPPA on YouTube:
(COPPA is a U.S. system, so due to the First Amendment, we have the right to petition, unless your country says otherwise)
https://forms.gle/h5qXH6LZei1YAbGq9

If you sign the petition your voice will count!
Thank you in advance for signing!


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Nov 20, 2019)

Wow this is incredibly dumb. I’ve seen a lot of people on YouTube making videos about this. Like craft channels are being threatened because they are directed to both ages as well. Thats really dumb I mean this could even be bad because what if someone posts a video that has things that aren’t safe for children and says that it is safe for children that’s a big no no.
EDIT: i don’t know much about this so I don’t know if YouTube is going to actually look at the videos that’s what I assumed when I made my last comment.
EDIT 2: I also am not going to get in this any further cause it’s a politcal matter and that a no no for me.


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## Wish Lin (Nov 20, 2019)

WTF?
So basically I either choose between no views or being sued.

Here is the thing: My only cubing channel is a collab channel with 43 subs so I only get about 200 views per video RIGHT NOW and if COPPA affected me, I will basically have 0 views.


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## PugCuber (Nov 20, 2019)

Quick thing, this should actually be in the Off-Topic Discussion area.

Anyway, This is so stupid! I understand that YouTube has kept COPPA’s ideas in mind, but now that they actually support them, they’re basically just murdering the view counts of smaller channels. The thing is, this is mainly because of suspicion of minors in your YouTube videos. Because of this, with my most recent video, my Austin Fall 2019 vlog, (If you watch my videos, go watch it if you haven’t seen it) I was really confused why comments were turned off automatically. Like 3 minutes after I uploaded it. I tried to turn comments back on manually, but literally like 2 minutes later, they’re disabled again. This makes no sense. I understand this is to prevent bullying, but in reality, this does everything but that. I feel like a good analogy for the things YouTube’s partnership with COPPA is doing would be the things PETA does. Neither solves problems, both try to downfall the community in one way or another, and both just make the internet a bad place.


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## xyzzy (Nov 20, 2019)

PugCuber said:


> Quick thing, this should actually be in the Off-Topic Discussion area.


It does seem to relate to the cubing community as a whole, considering how frequently information is disseminated via video. Well, it's up to the mods to decide if this should stay in General Speedcubing Discussion or be moved to Off-topic Discussion.



PugCuber said:


> I understand this is to prevent bullying, but in reality, this does everything but that.


It's not just bullying that they're worried about, I can assure you.



ElephantCuber said:


> video


Please don't talk over a video that also has someone talking in it; I can't make out what you or the guy in the video is trying to say. (And you don't have closed captions either!)

---

I don't yet have any strong opinion regarding this since I've only just heard about it. On one hand, my gut feel is that the reaction is overblown and this will end up being a huge nothingburger. On the other hand, YouTube also hasn't been doing great in dealing with the community at large in recent years (although to be fair, it's also a tough job).


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Nov 20, 2019)

Guys cubing content is not for kids, yes kids watch it but when we make videos we don’t think ‘hey I hope the kids enjoy this’ we think ‘hey look at this new cube/alg/solve I hope this interests someone’ I’d say the average age for cubers is around 13 and this is targeting people under 13. Also most cubing channels are too small to get attention no one at YouTube or COPPA is thinking ‘hey that XYZcuber is taking advantage of his 200 subscribers who may be younger than 13’ they are trying to stop big corporate channels that manipulate their younger audience like the toy channels where children ‘review’ toys but really the parents have just found a way of getting easy money and if worst comes to worst just start your video saying crap or something then it can’t be for kids can it.


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## PugCuber (Nov 20, 2019)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> Guys cubing content is not for kids, yes kids watch it but when we make videos we don’t think ‘hey I hope the kids enjoy this’ we think ‘hey look at this new cube/alg/solve I hope this interests someone’ I’d say the average age for cubers is around 13 and this is targeting people under 13. Also most cubing channels are too small to get attention no one at YouTube or COPPA is thinking ‘hey that XYZcuber is taking advantage of his 200 subscribers who may be younger than 13’ they are trying to stop big corporate channels that manipulate their younger audience like the toy channels where children ‘review’ toys but really the parents have just found a way of getting easy money and if worst comes to worst just start your video saying crap or something then it can’t be for kids can it.


The thing is, if we say it’s not for kids, the unfair thing is that there is a chance we could be fined $40k, which most of us don’t have.


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Nov 20, 2019)

This is a reason to make a platform specifically for cubing vids


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## cuber314159 (Nov 20, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> This is a reason to make a platform specifically for cubing vids


But to actually do that would take ages and new cubers would be unlikely to find it which would mean the Cubers on YouTube don't really know what they are talking about but they get views so bad information is more likely to spread through the community.


White KB said:


> Petition for banning COPPA on YouTube:
> (COPPA is a U.S. system, so due to the First Amendment, we have the right to petition, unless your country says otherwise)
> https://forms.gle/h5qXH6LZei1YAbGq9
> 
> ...


I'm not sure a Google form is going to get many signatures, I assume someone has already made a change.org petition for this that would be more likely to change things.


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Nov 20, 2019)

PugCuber said:


> The thing is, if we say it’s not for kids, the unfair thing is that there is a chance we could be fined $40k, which most of us don’t have.


like I said they have better things to be doing then going after cubing channels with like 200 subs even "big" cubing channels aren't actually that large compared to a lot of people on youtube also look at how complicated cubing looks to non-cubers I think you couldmake the case that it is not for kids quite easily


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## PugCuber (Nov 20, 2019)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> like I said they have better things to be doing then going after cubing channels with like 200 subs even "big" cubing channels aren't actually that large compared to a lot of people on youtube also look at how complicated cubing looks to non-cubers I think you couldmake the case that it is not for kids quite easily


That is true...


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## Etotheipi (Nov 20, 2019)

What I don't get is why you can be fined 40k for labeling something kids might like "not for kids" that doesn't harm anyone, its just like, in a terrible analogy of mine, if a apple seller got sued for not putting "dairy free" on his apples.


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 20, 2019)

This really is not a good predicament for the community as we provide a wide range of subjects for almost every age. And because of this stupid idea, Cubeorithms will no longer to be able to animate, for example!


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## PugCuber (Nov 20, 2019)

Etotheipi said:


> What I don't get is why you can be fined 40k for labeling something kids might like "not for kids" that doesn't harm anyone, its just like, in a terrible analogy of mine, if a apple seller got sued for not putting "dairy free" on his apples.


That’s what I’m saying. The fine is what’s unfair here. The chances of a minor having $40k to spend is almost zero, or maybe it *IS *zero.


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## Tabe (Nov 20, 2019)

Soooooo much misunderstanding up above, so let me see if I can clear some stuff up:

1) COPPA is not a group or person. "COPPA" isn't doing anything to anyone. COPPA is the name of an American law aimed at protecting the privacy of children under 13. It has been in effect for nearly 20 years. Google and Youtube have been violating the law for a long, long time and are finally falling into line. It is a law with a valid, important purpose and not at all "stupid".

2) You will not get fined if you mark your content as "not for kids" and it ends up being for kids. If you have a cubing channel and mark it as "not for kids", you're good to go. The problem arises if you mark it "ok for kids" and then publish content that isn't OK for kids. That's where the $42,500 fines come from. Even then, the likelihood of actually getting hit with the fine is really, really small. Mostly what will happen is that Youtube, through their AI, will automatically flag you video as not for kids and that will be that.

3) The disabling of comments on videos for kids is not to protect from bullying. Well, that's maybe 1% of it. The main purpose is to stop the comment sections of videos from being used by predators seeking victims. Currently, the comment sections at Youtube are a haven for gross behavior of that nature.

4) The main effect of this law will be a reduction in ad revenue for a lot of channels. A major effect of COPPA is to make targeted advertising impossible for many demographics. This is because, before the enforcement of the COPPA law, advertisers were (illegally) using the private information of children under 13 (like browsing history, internet searches, etc) to deliver personalized ads. That won't happen anymore. So the ads displayed will be much more generic and, therefore, far less valuable. So, less ad money for channels that are monetized.

For the most part, this is going to be much ado about nothing. There will still be tons of cubing channels putting out content.


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## PugCuber (Nov 21, 2019)

Tabe said:


> Soooooo much misunderstanding up above, so let me see if I can clear some stuff up:
> 
> 1) COPPA is not a group or person. "COPPA" isn't doing anything to anyone. COPPA is the name of an American law aimed at protecting the privacy of children under 13. It has been in effect for nearly 20 years. Google and Youtube have been violating the law for a long, long time and are finally falling into line. It is a law with a valid, important purpose and not at all "stupid".
> 
> ...


Thanks for providing more context. I think the entire cubing community appreciates it.


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## White KB (Nov 21, 2019)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> Guys cubing content is not for kids, yes kids watch it but when we make videos we don’t think ‘hey I hope the kids enjoy this’ we think ‘hey look at this new cube/alg/solve I hope this interests someone’ I’d say the average age for cubers is around 13 and this is targeting people under 13. Also most cubing channels are too small to get attention no one at YouTube or COPPA is thinking ‘hey that XYZcuber is taking advantage of his 200 subscribers who may be younger than 13’ they are trying to stop big corporate channels that manipulate their younger audience like the toy channels where children ‘review’ toys but really the parents have just found a way of getting easy money and if worst comes to worst just start your video saying crap or something then it can’t be for kids can it.


Agreed.


ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> This is a reason to make a platform specifically for cubing vids


But you can't make money off of it, that's the problem...


cuber314159 said:


> But to actually do that would take ages and new cubers would be unlikely to find it which would mean the Cubers on YouTube don't really know what they are talking about but they get views so bad information is more likely to spread through the community.
> 
> I'm not sure a Google form is going to get many signatures, I assume someone has already made a change.org petition for this that would be more likely to change things.


Change.org? Never heard of it. Maybe I'll check it out.


GAN 356 X said:


> This really is not a good predicament for the community as we provide a wide range of subjects for almost every age. And because of this stupid idea, Cubeorithms will no longer to be able to animate, for example!


I love Cubeorithms animations! Sad to see them go...


Tabe said:


> Soooooo much misunderstanding up above, so let me see if I can clear some stuff up:
> 
> 1) COPPA is not a group or person. "COPPA" isn't doing anything to anyone. COPPA is the name of an American law aimed at protecting the privacy of children under 13. It has been in effect for nearly 20 years. Google and Youtube have been violating the law for a long, long time and are finally falling into line. It is a law with a valid, important purpose and not at all "stupid".
> 
> ...


Wait guys, I get it now.
This has blown over for me.
I can just mark all of my videos "Not for kids".
Bingo!
Well, that cleared things up. Thanks, @Tabe.
(The things I said above I just had in multi-quote, sorry about that.)

Well, I'll be back to posting regularly and such...


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## mark49152 (Nov 21, 2019)

Tabe said:


> The problem arises if you mark it "ok for kids" and then publish content that isn't OK for kids. That's where the $42,500 fines come from.


You sure? I'm no expert, but I thought it was the other way around. If you fail to mark a child-directed video as "made for kids", but kids end up watching it and consequently YT illegally gather their personal info and deliver them personalised ads, you can be fined.

The issue for cubing is whether cubing content is "child-directed". In my opinion, most of it is not. Cubing isn't specifically targeted at under-13s, even if some happen to like it, and the great majority of cubers are over 13. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer so don't take that as legal advice


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## White KB (Nov 21, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> You sure? ... Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer so don't take that as legal advice


Any cubing lawyers?


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## Deadloxz (Nov 21, 2019)

I get how they are trying to protect kids privacy and protect them from predators. But there are other ways to fix this and currently it is looking bad for a ton of content creators in general not just cubing.


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## cubeshepherd (Nov 21, 2019)

White KB said:


> Any cubing lawyers?


Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Phil from the Cubical know law/went to law school?


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## cuber314159 (Nov 21, 2019)

cubeshepherd said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Phil from the Cubical know law/went to law school?


Yes, he has studied law 




__





Phil Yu - Speedsolving.com Wiki







www.speedsolving.com





He hasn't been active since February 2018 but I guess I can try and get his thoughts 

@a small kitten


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## ThatGuy (Nov 21, 2019)

From what I'm reading, you're not safe if you just mark your videos not for kids. YouTube plans to use its algorithms to automatically find videos it believes are aimed for kids (even if you mark not for kids, Youtube's algorithm may belive you made an error). Cubing will likely be affected because cubes are colorful toys (two supposed criteria YouTube might be looking for), and thus cubing videos will likely be automatically found to be aimed for kids. Video game content creators are similarly concerned.

Edit: to clarify further, it seems there are 2 things going on. First, the FTC's goal is to 'protect' children with COPPA. If there is a video that a child may find appealing, the FTC doesn't want that video to have targeted ads, comments, etc. Second, Youtube's answer to these new rules is the system where you mark your video for kids or not. But, this relies on content creators willing losing revenue and marking their potential videos for kids. 

Let's say someone who makes minecraft videos doesn't want to lose ad revenue, so they mark their video not for kids. But, kids find minecraft appealing, so they watch the video, and it has targeted ads, comments, etc. Then, that creator is in trouble with the FTC for violating COPPA. That is where the 42k$ fine comes in. It doesn't seem to matter what the creator believes their audience is, it matters what the FTC thinks are for kids (and the guidelines are very vague, which is part of the reason so many people are concerned).


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## Tabe (Nov 21, 2019)

mark49152 said:


> You sure? I'm no expert, but I thought it was the other way around. If you fail to mark a child-directed video as "made for kids", but kids end up watching it and consequently YT illegally gather their personal info and deliver them personalised ads, you can be fined.


Having done more reading, no, I'm not sure. I've seen it both ways.

FYI, I've reached out to Phil @ The Cubicle to see what he has to say.

What I don't get is why the content creator would be at fault because Google & Youtube are delivering targeted advertising at someone. Creators aren't the ones delivering the ads.

The FTC is taking comments. You can submit yours here:





__





Regulations.gov







www.regulations.gov





If you do choose to comment:

1) BE RESPECTFUL. No profanity, etc.

2) PROOFREAD. 


If you care, here is the comment I submitted:

I am writing to comment specifically on the FTC settlement with Google/Youtube and the COPPA compliance mechanisms being put into place by Youtube as pertains to content creators on that platform. While I support the intent of the COPPA law, the enforcement of the settlement is problematic in a few ways:

1) The guidelines for content "for kids" are extremely vague. This particularly applies to "gray area" channels like channels whose content consists of videos regarding toys or games directed to adults but with appeal to kids. This could include video game channels, nostalgia channels, or toy/gaming channels such as those dedicated to the Rubik's Cube. 

2) It is unfair to place the burden on the content creator when those creators are not the ones delivering ads. Google and Youtube are the ones delivering ads and they are own the owners of the platform. They are able, at the account and access level, to determine the age of the person using Youtube and alter their content delivery without involving the content creator. Such a method would be a more fair, more accurate way of protecting the privacy and safety of children than putting an unfair burden on the creators of the content.

3) The method for determination of whether content is "for kids" - machine learning and AI - is fraught with issues, open to abuse, and notoriously inaccurate. Youtube currently uses similar systems for determining copyright and those systems routinely flag things incorrectly. It is simply not fair or just to potentially impact a person's livelihood based on the whims of an unproven, not publicly transparent, AI system for flagging content.

4) The currently outlined implementation of Youtube's COPPA compliance does not specify any method for appealing directly to an actual human being at Youtube nor does it specify timeframes for Youtube to respond to issues or complaints. In addition, there is no policy or plan in place to compensate creators whose channels are wrongly negatively impacted by the changes. Content creators should not suffer a non-recoverable loss of income because Youtube's AI system incorrectly flags a video as being for kids when it is not. I would strongly request that Youtube be required to implement an appeal system wherein a content creator can directly speak - not just email or form communications but actually speak - to a live person in order to appeal the labeling of their videos.

Respectfully submitted.



Tabe said:


> FYI, I've reached out to Phil @ The Cubicle to see what he has to say.


I spoke to Phil and he was not comfortable with giving what could be perceived as legal advice.


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## Sion (Nov 22, 2019)

The issue with COPPA is that kids are autonomous themselves. If a child wants to watch something, they will watch it. This goes for every video on YouTube. If a child wants to watch a video that isn’t explicitly made for them, they will most likely watch it. 

The flaw of logic is that it’s so easy to get around these laws. If a child watches something they aren’t supposed to watch, data will be collected on them, which really jeopardizes all parties involved. It really goes down to this:children will watch children’s channels, children and adults will watch adult channels because children want to feel grown up. 
As a consequence, YouTube will collect data on the child anyway.

I’ll create a little game to explain the absurdity of this rule. Let’s call it Little Mikey.
The room is filled with eleven people. Three are card collectors, six are neutral card givers, one is a card giver called Little Mikey, and the other is the informant. The card collectors are all informed by the informant of three things that all seven card givers *might* like. Each card collector must list five things that they think will give them the most cash. In turn, each cash giver will write a list of five things that they like. Each match on the lists is one card. However, if anyone collects a card from Little Mikey, they lose all their cards and are eliminated from The game Whoever has the most cards wins.


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## teboecubes (Nov 22, 2019)

I was just thinking about this idea of whether cubing content is "for kids." Obviously it's not the "Ryan Toys Review Kinder Egg surprise LOL Frozen Elsa Unbox" that Youtube/COPPA is trying to weed out, but there are under 13 cubers that watch cubing videos, and i would be lying if i said i didn't expect kids to watch my content. I put "not for kids" on my (already unmonetized) channel, because it's not made FOR kids, (and because i want to have comments, reccomendations, endscreens available lol)


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## Caden :) (Nov 22, 2019)

White KB said:


> Petition for banning COPPA on YouTube:
> (COPPA is a U.S. system, so due to the First Amendment, we have the right to petition, unless your country says otherwise)
> https://forms.gle/h5qXH6LZei1YAbGq9
> 
> ...


You can't just "ban" COPPA. It's dumb, but it's a necessary act.


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## ProStar (Nov 22, 2019)

CadenG05 said:


> You can't just "ban" COPPA. It's dumb, but it's a necessary act.



COPPA is _not _dumb. It is a necessary and favorable act. The problem is the way YouTube(and Google, but that's another discussion) is implementing it.


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## Tabe (Nov 22, 2019)

DarkSavage said:


> COPPA is _not _dumb. It is a necessary and favorable act. The problem is the way YouTube(and Google, but that's another discussion) is implementing it.


Exactly. Google and Youtube should be enforcing some kind of age gate on their sites and apps, similar to what Facebook does (supposedly, you can't have a Facebook account unless you're 13). They could then adjust the collection of data and delivery of ads based on the user's age. And, if users aren't logged into Youtube, treat them as if they're under 13. Problem solved.


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## Sion (Nov 23, 2019)

Tabe said:


> Exactly. Google and Youtube should be enforcing some kind of age gate on their sites and apps, similar to what Facebook does (supposedly, you can't have a Facebook account unless you're 13). They could then adjust the collection of data and delivery of ads based on the user's age. And, if users aren't logged into Youtube, treat them as if they're under 13. Problem solved.



Easier said then done. Many people make accounts When they are below the age minimum and falsify their age. I remember making a YouTube account back when I was 10 and I set it so it said my birthday was in 1972 instead of in 2001.


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## Tabe (Nov 23, 2019)

Sion said:


> Easier said then done. Many people make accounts When they are below the age minimum and falsify their age. I remember making a YouTube account back when I was 10 and I set it so it said my birthday was in 1972 instead of in 2001.


Of course it's easier said than done. But, with the sums of money at stake, and Google's vast database of information, it's hardly insurmountable.


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## ProStar (Nov 23, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> So... If I don't make videos for money and I don't care whether people comment on them or not, can't I just mark my videos as 'for kids' and move on with my life?



People over 13("not kids") cannot watch content marked as "for kids"


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## ElephantCuber (Nov 23, 2019)

actually you can be fined for marking it not for kids when it is for kids


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 23, 2019)

DarkSavage said:


> People over 13("not kids") cannot watch content marked as "for kids"


Surely this is not true? It doesn't make any sense. And anyway, it appears that any account can, for instance, watch "Baby Shark". (Unfortunately.)


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## ProStar (Nov 23, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> Surely this is not true? It doesn't make any sense. And anyway, it appears that any account can, for instance, watch "Baby Shark". (Unfortunately.)



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the changes concerning COPPA haven't been implemented yet.


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## Tabe (Nov 24, 2019)

DarkSavage said:


> People over 13("not kids") cannot watch content marked as "for kids"


This is not correct.


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## GenTheThief (Nov 25, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> So... If I don't make videos for money and I don't care whether people comment on them or not, *can* I just mark my videos as 'for kids' and move on with my life?


That seems to be the case.

I think the big problem is that the videos are not searchable and wont be recommended to other people.


But I don't know how people will find the videos if you can't search for them.


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## Etotheipi (Nov 25, 2019)

Lets just hope Youtube fixes their broken system before it takes effect.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 25, 2019)

Dr. Lube said:


> In that case, in the words of one YouTuber, I'll just have to 'adult my videos up' and mark them as not for kids. Sure, they won't be advertiser friendly, but at least they'll be open to searches, comments and playlist addition.


Does "adulting your videos up" really protect you, or are you still liable due to using colorful images (cubes) that can attract kids? It looked to me like that might make you liable, even if you have other kid-inappropriate content.


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## Sion (Nov 26, 2019)

The more I think about it, the less it seems like they are going after large creators, and the more it looks like they are specifically targeting the content farms that produce "elsagate" material.

For all of you who don't know what elsagate is, it's basically content on Youtube that is very cartoonish and seemingly directed towards children. That said, it is also unusually graphic and depicts material that is far from age appropriate (graphic depictions of surgery, relationship issues that extend all the way to affairs and paternity disputes, and even depictions of numerous types of assault.) I mind you, this is using characters that are familiar to children, such as Spiderman, Elsa, Mickey and Minnie mouse among others while lively, jumpy music that would appeal to kids plays in the background.


The new guideline, if enforced appropriately, might significantly cut down on the number of these videos due to massive cuts in monetization. That said, if enforced in a way everyone is implying, the results can and will be disastrous for the platform.

PS: If you don't know what elsagate is still, First off, I *don't* recommend watching it. However, if you still don't want to heed this warning, looking up "elsa mickey mouse spiderman" should yield results. I warn you though, it will make you sick to how people can make content like this for kids.


EDIT: I am aware youtube made an attempt to get rid of elsagate content back in August 2017, though there are still massive amounts of it on Youtube as we speak. Given that this material looks like it is targeted to children (and probably is), but is not age appropriate, this could solve a major issue on youtube in regards to kids content.


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## EccentricSensei (Nov 28, 2019)

I searched up ‘elsagate’ and....yeah, I feel nauseated and disturbed.
What do the creators gain from traumatising young children....I feel sorry for those children!


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 28, 2019)

EccentricSensei said:


> I searched up ‘elsagate’ and....yeah, I feel nauseated and disturbed.
> What do the creators gain from traumatising young children....I feel sorry for those children!


Ok, I won't search it up then... thanks for telling us who don't know what means so we don't have to be traumatised


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## Iwannaganx (Nov 28, 2019)

I don't really know much about what's going on, I did watch like half of matpats video on it, and from my limited knowledge, it's just that YouTube has a big mouth. He goes into a lot of detail, I won't, but basically in interviews they've said things that are just bragging about how many kid watch their videos, EVEN THOUGH you aren't allowed to get a Google account if you are under 13, so that means permission, however implicit, from their parents and therefore is not in violation of COPPA.
BUT then comes yt and their big mouth bragging how many kids they get watching their vids, and COPPA has evidence to do what they've now done.


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 28, 2019)

Iwannaganx said:


> I don't really know much about what's going on, I did watch like half of matpats video on it, and from my limited knowledge, it's just that YouTube has a big mouth. He goes into a lot of detail, I won't, but basically in interviews they've said things that are just bragging about how many kid watch their videos, EVEN THOUGH you aren't allowed to get a Google account if you are under 13, so that means permission, however implicit, from their parents and therefore is not in violation of COPPA.
> BUT then comes yt and their big mouth bragging how many kids they get watching their vids, and COPPA has evidence to do what they've now done.


I'm just surprised you posted something lol. but I do agree


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## Underwatercuber (Nov 28, 2019)

Coppa is great


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## EccentricSensei (Nov 28, 2019)

I think otherwise...


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## Underwatercuber (Nov 28, 2019)

EccentricSensei said:


> I think otherwise...


So you dislike disallowing people to collect, use and share children’s personal information? Seems legit


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## EccentricSensei (Nov 28, 2019)

Hm true.
I’m on the fence because COPPA has lots of pros and cons.
The fact that it is protecting children from elsagate and likewise, like you said, is a good action, but for adults, (and cubers, hence the thread) it poses some inconvenience.
Let’s just wait till they implement it and see how it goes.


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## ProStar (Nov 29, 2019)

Underwatercuber said:


> Coppa is great



COPPA overall is a good and necessary act. It's the way YouTube is enforcing it that makes us unhappy.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 30, 2019)

Xtreme Cuber said:


> As I said before, it's not YouTube's fault.


I'm not sure I completely agree with this. Clearly all the FTC cares about is whether or not the information is gathered on kids. It seems to me that YouTube could find a middle ground in terms of how they treat videos marked for kids. It seems they're still allowed to do contextualized ads, but not personalized ads. It seems almost like YouTube has adopted the policy of completely eliminating monetization, not recommending kids videos, and making them hard to search specifically to try to force the FTC to give way to complaints about the policy.


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## xyzzy (Nov 30, 2019)

Saw this linked on Reddit: http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=395202#p395202

Tony Fisher has had (at least) one of his videos marked as "for kids", with seemingly no way to appeal the decision.

(I remember, once upon a time, when Google's motto was "do no evil"…)


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## Bamboo Cuber (Dec 4, 2019)

So I haven't read all of these (cuz its four pages long and I'm rly tired), but here are my thoughts.
People like JR and CrazyBad will have to figure out other ways to make money because their main source of income is from their channels. The problem with COPPA is that the judgment of whether a video is kid-friendly or not is up to the FTC (or so I've been told). They have ZERO experience when it comes to managing a HUGE media platform like Youtube, and they are also very outdated in terms of law enforcement. I honestly think that when the FTC hits some channels but not others, the backlash will be enormous. 
Back to Cubing, the channels that are primarily cubing will be hit very hard, as almost ALL of the videos are considered for Kids. Keep in mind that estimates place Personalised Ads make up approx. 70 - 80% of monetization. We can only hold our breath and cross our fingers for what's to come.


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## Tony Fisher (Dec 11, 2019)

Etotheipi said:


> What I don't get is why you can be fined 40k for labeling something kids might like "not for kids" that doesn't harm anyone, its just like, in a terrible analogy of mine, if a apple seller got sued for not putting "dairy free" on his apples.


Because if you label it not for kids advertisers will be allowed to show interest based targeted ads. The new law prohibits that for "kids" since they are seen as vulnerable and impressionable. Comments would also be allowed so once again the kids would see those oh so dangerous naughty words.


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## Tony Fisher (Dec 11, 2019)

Tabe said:


> 1) COPPA is not a group or person. "COPPA" isn't doing anything to anyone. COPPA is the name of an American law aimed at protecting the privacy of children under 13. It has been in effect for nearly 20 years. Google and Youtube have been violating the law for a long, long time and are finally falling into line. It is a law with a valid, important purpose and not at all "stupid".


I would consider it extremely stupid. We are not talking about privacy in terms of photos, medical records, where they hide their pocket money or even their address. We are talking about their browsing habits, general location, sex and age estimations with zero serious consequences. Parents or the kids themselves worried can get 100% privacy from not going online. This nanny state law should be ditched and a simple warning put up instead. Even the ridiculous EU hasn't gone this far.......yet and they even hate the way you wash your chicken!


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## Tabe (Dec 11, 2019)

Tony Fisher said:


> Because if you label it not for kids advertisers will be allowed to show interest based targeted ads. The new law prohibits that for "kids" since they are seen as vulnerable and impressionable. Comments would also be allowed so once again the kids would see those oh so dangerous naughty words.


The issue with comments is not naughty words. The comments section is used for child trafficking and predatory behavior.


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## TNL Cubing (Dec 11, 2019)

Tabe said:


> Soooooo much misunderstanding up above, so let me see if I can clear some stuff up:
> 
> 1) COPPA is not a group or person. "COPPA" isn't doing anything to anyone. COPPA is the name of an American law aimed at protecting the privacy of children under 13. It has been in effect for nearly 20 years. Google and Youtube have been violating the law for a long, long time and are finally falling into line. It is a law with a valid, important purpose and not at all "stupid".
> 
> ...



I was going to say a couple of those points too, thanks for clearing that up for everyone! 

COPPA is definitely a valid law, and YouTube really has no choice but to enforce it the best they can or else they are in deep **** (pardon my french). It's a wonder how they have been violating it and selling data for so long. 

Most cubing content isn't targeted specifically at children (as many of the previous replies have also said), so I think everyone just needs to take a step back and chill. Your channels with 50 subscribers aren't even monetised anyway...


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## TNL Cubing (Dec 12, 2019)

Tony Fisher said:


> I would consider it extremely stupid. We are not talking about privacy in terms of photos, medical records, where they hide their pocket money or even their address. We are talking about their browsing habits, general location, sex and age estimations with zero serious consequences. Parents or the kids themselves worried can get 100% privacy from not going online. This nanny state law should be ditched and a simple warning put up instead. Even the ridiculous EU hasn't gone this far.......yet and they even hate the way you wash your chicken!



From what I understand, knowingly collecting information - even that with "zero serious consequences" - of a child under 13 is illegal in some form as is directly marketing and showing ads to a youth (based off of their tracked information) because they are considered by law not mature enough to distinguish advertising.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 12, 2019)

Xtreme Cuber said:


> If you want an objective and comprehensive view on the subject, read the publication directly from the FTC. It should clear up any questions you still have.


I don't think it does. I still don't know enough to identify whether my content will be considered to be targeting kids. And that's simply because the FTC's official guidelines are far too vague for anyone to know whether any content is going to be considered to be targeting kids. We can make assumptions about what seems sensible or logical, but that's not necessarily how things work in the legal realm.

And it makes me sad that I have to worry about this even though I'm not monetizing. I have yet to see anything that says content creators are off the hook just because they don't monetize - whether or not you're monetizing, it's still true that if you created content that gets tracked, you're liable. I would go through and mark all my videos as for kids right now, just to be safe, but I hate to lose the comments on my old videos (which I assume will probably be wiped away as soon as I mark them as being for kids).


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