# Do you believe in the P-word?



## Eleredo (Jun 28, 2010)

So in like every thread where the opener asks how to get faster, I mainly read the answer 'Practice', 'Practice' and... 'Practice'!

Some cubers even claim that you can average 30 seconds with ANY method. However, what I don't understand is; what exactly is it that makes you better by practicing?

For example, a cuber knows all algorithms by heart and can perform them blindingly fast, what exactly will get better by practicing, then?

I personally don't believe in practicing. Well, it will help you, for the first two months, but I think that your time will no longer decrease if you already know all algorithms by heart and recognize patterns almost instantly.

Does practice really lower your times, even after like a year?


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## cincyaviation (Jun 28, 2010)

yes


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## Kian (Jun 28, 2010)

Yes, of course it does. Knowing algorithms is not the be all end all. Turning speed and lookahead are improved only through lots of practice. These are extremely important factors in cubing.


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## cuber952 (Jun 28, 2010)

practicing is always good because you will find better ways to do things.


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## Escher (Jun 28, 2010)

Practice is important for improving, but seemingly not as important as basically random, unexplainable jumps in speed.


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## Chrish (Jun 28, 2010)

Take two people who started cubing at the same time, and finished learning all the OLLs and PLLs are the same time. Person A doesn't practice because he doesn't think he needs to. Person B does.

If they met back up in 2 months, you'll see a significant difference between the two.


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## Weston (Jun 28, 2010)

There is no secret to getting faster...
Fast people just practice a lot.

Do you really think that two months is enough time to be able to recognize and execute your algorithms as fast as humanly possible? You can always get a little faster. That's what practicing is for.

Also, there is more to speedsolving than just executing and recognizing algorithms.


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## amostay2004 (Jun 28, 2010)

C'mon, the entire cubing community can't be wrong >_>


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## Eleredo (Jun 28, 2010)

Weston said:


> You can always get a little faster.



But isn't there ever a limit, that when reached you just have to learn faster algorithms / OLL/PLL's in order to get faster, or can you keep getting faster and faster with the same algorithms without learning let's say OLL/PLL?


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## Olivér Perge (Jun 28, 2010)

Eleredo said:


> I personally don't believe in practicing. Well, it will help you, for the first two months, but I think that your time will no longer decrease if you already know all algorithms by heart and recognize patterns almost instantly.



I have to quote John McEnroe: You cannot be serious!

Your statement fails in many ways: 



Eleredo said:


> Well, it will help you, for the first two months



Not only in the first two months. Go and experience it!



Eleredo said:


> but I think that your time will no longer decrease



This means after 2 months of practice everyone reaches their peak?



Eleredo said:


> if you already know all algorithms by heart and recognize patterns almost instantly



After 2 months? Seriously?


I think this thread was looking for a mystery, imaginary key to get faster, which is (sorry, but I have to disappoint you) *is* practice...


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## Weston (Jun 28, 2010)

Eleredo said:


> Weston said:
> 
> 
> > You can always get a little faster.
> ...


There is no limit. Or if there is, its so ridiculously fast that we don't have to worry about that.


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Jun 28, 2010)

Practice doesn't make perfection, but excellence.


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## Mitch15 (Jun 28, 2010)

amostay2004 said:


> C'mon, the entire cubing community can't be wrong >_>



more like, the entire competitive world can't be wrong, haha


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## iChanZer0 (Jun 28, 2010)

p word= fast times


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## shelley (Jun 28, 2010)

Escher said:


> Practice is important for improving, but seemingly not as important as basically random, unexplainable jumps in speed.



But those unexplainable jumps in speed don't happen without (at least some) practice. You can memorize all the algorithms there are to know, but there is absolutely no way to get from a minute to sub-20 without any practicing.



Eleredo said:


> I personally don't believe in practicing. Well, it will help you, for the first two months, but I think that your time will no longer decrease if you already know all algorithms by heart and recognize patterns almost instantly.



Prove it. Get a world record in two months.

Speedcubing is more than memorizing and regurgitating algorithms. It might even be an overstatement to say that the algorithms are only half the battle. There's a lot of dexterity, pattern recognition and recall that can only happen with practice. If you don't believe practice is key, what's your idea for improving your times then? Magical flying pony droppings?


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## oprah62 (Jun 28, 2010)

I think anyone can learn algs, but it's dedication in practicing to get better, and changes start slow and increase steadily. Also, no practice= slower times . If you quit cubing for a year without practice, you'd be much slower then practicing everyday because when you practice you realize things you need to work on and you learn more.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 28, 2010)

shelley said:


> If you don't believe practice is key, what's your idea for improving your times then? Magical flying pony droppings?



That's it! I'm going to follow Dan around at the next competition and collect all his magical flying ponies' droppings. And I'll be awesome!


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## Kian (Jun 28, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> shelley said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't believe practice is key, what's your idea for improving your times then? Magical flying pony droppings?
> ...



What a load of crap.


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## iChanZer0 (Jun 28, 2010)

Fall of 09 my best average was in the low 40's using intuitive F2L, 2-Look OLL, and 2-Look PLL. Today my best average is 20.xx using intuitive F2L,2-Look OLL + a few OLLs I learned intuitively,and 2-Look PLL + the two Js.


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## jms_gears1 (Jun 28, 2010)

Kian said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > shelley said:
> ...


Kian i love you


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## TeddyKGB (Jun 28, 2010)

Wait, your telling me to get faster all I gotta do is practice? I knew I was missing something


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## cmhardw (Jun 28, 2010)

Eleredo said:


> So in like every thread where the opener asks how to get faster, I mainly read the answer 'Practice', 'Practice' and... 'Practice'!
> 
> Some cubers even claim that you can average 30 seconds with ANY method. However, what I don't understand is; *what exactly is it that makes you better by practicing?*



Reduced decision making time (i.e. fewer pauses), improved finger dexterity (i.e. doing turns more quickly), learning new cases by seeing new situations arise that you have never encountered before. The list goes on.



> For example, a cuber knows all algorithms by heart and can perform them blindingly fast, what exactly will get better by practicing, then?



Even faster execution, knowledge gained of even more situations that you've never encountered before. Learning entirely new methods that can be used to enhance your current method, etc.



> I personally don't believe in practicing. Well, it will help you, for the first two months, but I think that your time will no longer decrease if you already know all algorithms by heart and recognize patterns almost instantly.
> 
> Does practice really lower your times, even after like a year?



I can give you the perfect example. I am not doing this to be sarcastic or funny, but I really am taking your argument at face value: that practicing does absolutely no good beyond about 2 months in of learning how to speedcube.

Erik Akkersdijk's first competition average of 22.61 seconds on his WCA profile is from the German Open in April of 2006. His second competition average is 20.36 seconds in September of 2006 at the European Championships also in 2006.

Erik's current best average in competition is 9.89 seconds set just this past weekend at the Alania Open.

I can see one of two scenarios explaining this incredible improvement in Erik's averages. I am, of course, assuming that Erik is a reputable speedcuber and has not learned to peel and re-stick the stickers in sub-10 seconds 

Scenario 1) Erik has not practiced at all since 2006 (actually since 2005 or even a bit before that, because this is well beyond his initial 2 month learning curve), and he is now literally more than twice as fast as he used to be simply by the sheer power of magic alone.

OR

Scenario 2) Erik practices all the time, and this helps him to improve over time.

Now I think you can see why you're getting the responses in this thread that you are about practicing and it's usefulness.

Chris


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## miniGOINGS (Jun 28, 2010)

Of course not. This word, "practice", does not exist. I do not believe in it.


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## vcuber13 (Jun 28, 2010)

iChanZer0 said:


> Fall of 09 my best average was in the low 40's using intuitive F2L, 2-Look OLL, and 2-Look PLL. Today my best average is 20.xx using intuitive F2L,2-Look OLL + a few OLLs I learned intuitively,and 2-Look PLL + the two Js.



This is similar for me, at the Candian Open (Sept 19/20) I averaged 45.60 seconds (~12 OLLs and ~7 PLLs), and at TOW (Jan 31) I got a 22.18 average (~17 OLLs and full PLL), over twice as fast.


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## jms_gears1 (Jun 28, 2010)

Eleredo said:


> Some cubers even claim that you can average 30 seconds with ANY method. However, what I don't understand is; what exactly is it that makes you better by practicing?







L




O




L

and those are just the three 'main' speedcubing methods.


But honestly if you dont practice how did you expect to get faster?


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## souljahsu (Jun 28, 2010)

GO P-WORD!!!!!


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## Blake4512 (Jun 28, 2010)

Practicing absolutely helps you with your times.
An example is, when people take a break from cubing they become a little bit slower depending on how long the break was. But when people practice they get faster. But i bet all of the fast cubers started out with xy:xy.xy or x:xy.xy times but as they kept solving and practicing they improved and learned new methods and algorithms.


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## CubesOfTheWorld (Jun 29, 2010)

You recognize cases a lot faster from practice.
You get faster fingertricks from practice.
You turn more accurately from practice.

There are no limits.

Practice.


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## iasimp1997 (Jun 29, 2010)

Eleredo said:


> So in like every thread where the opener asks how to get faster, I mainly read the answer 'Practice', 'Practice' and... 'Practice'!
> 
> Some cubers even claim that you can average 30 seconds with ANY method. However, what I don't understand is; what exactly is it that makes you better by practicing?
> 
> ...



So, you're basically saying that you don't believe in practice. Then you go on to say that only knowing all algorithms by heart (which is nearly impossible including ZB and stuff) will improve your times? Where do you think knowing that comes from?


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Jun 29, 2010)

Kian said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > shelley said:
> ...


Literally.


miniGOINGS said:


> Of course not. This word, "practice", does not exist. I do not believe in it.



Lol.


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## gavnasty (Jun 29, 2010)

How can you not practice?


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## musicninja17 (Jun 29, 2010)

I believe in Practice X Lookahead X algs X familiarity = Faster


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## Daniel Wu (Jun 29, 2010)

Plus, practice is fun.


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## Kian (Jun 29, 2010)

~Phoenix Death~ said:


> Kian said:
> 
> 
> > Mike Hughey said:
> ...


You are a joke murderer.


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## souljahsu (Jun 29, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> Of course not. This word, "practice", does not exist. I do not believe in it.



you just said it so it exists.


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## Innocence (Jun 29, 2010)

Kian said:


> ~Phoenix Death~ said:
> 
> 
> > Kian said:
> ...



This.

@Musicninja17: Don't forget that familiarity is directly related to practice.

Actually, if any interested non-cubers are reading this, and are stupid enough to be my guinea pig, start cubing, and don't actually solve the cube more than 200 times, just learn F2L, and full OLL and PLL (or even ZBF2L/LL), and we'll see how fast you are.

By the way, it's unlikely the above will ever happen, because everyone will think I'm crazy, because practice is also essential to make learning algorithms seem less daunting. Take full OLL for example. The 57 algs seemed like not much at all when I learned them, because of the ridiculous amount of time I'd wasted on cubing, and because I could actually execute them semi-fast off the bat. Learning them as a beginner would be freaking scary for most people, IMHO.

EDIT9001: Souljiashu is also a joke murderer. lrn2sarcasm


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## Chapuunka (Jun 29, 2010)

souljahsu said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > Of course not. This word, "practice", does not exist. I do not believe in it.
> ...



Chapuunka that is sub-10 on 3x3! I said it, so it must exist.

Oh, wait...


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## Deleted member 2864 (Jun 29, 2010)

I think there's a good way to practice and a bad way to practice.

Mindlessly solving= bad practice
Trying to find what you can improve on by analyzing solves=good practice

While I believe even bad practice will eventually lower your times, I also think that if you want the best results, good practice is best.


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## beingforitself (Jun 29, 2010)

I am getting really bad grades at school, and all anyone ever tells me is "study more." I am somewhat skeptical.

Is this really true? I feel that after two months of studying your brain will have absorbed all the knowledge it ever could possibly absorb, and any further studying will have no results.

Do you all really believe in the S-word?


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## Deleted member 2864 (Jun 29, 2010)

beingforitself said:


> I am getting really bad grades at school, and all anyone ever tells me is "study more." I am somewhat skeptical.
> 
> Is this really true? I feel that after two months of studying your brain will have absorbed all the knowledge it ever could possibly absorb, and any further studying will have no results.
> 
> Do you all really believe in the S-word?



I think there's good ways to study and a bad ways to study.

Mindlessly staring at a text book OR over-studying= bad studying
Focusing only on the task of studying, taking good notes, and quizzing yourself=good studying

While I believe even bad studying will eventually get the job done, I also think that if you want the best results, good studying is best. 

:O IT WORKED FOAR STUDIYING 2!!!!!!!!!!


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## Innocence (Jun 29, 2010)

aznmortalx said:


> beingforitself said:
> 
> 
> > I am getting really bad grades at school, and all anyone ever tells me is "study more." I am somewhat skeptical.
> ...



epic mad skillz.

It's all practice though. I don't think the OP believes in ANY practice.


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## souljahsu (Jun 29, 2010)

practice "praticing"


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## Edward (Jun 29, 2010)

Eleredo said:


> I personally don't believe in practicing.


Good luck with that.


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## Chapuunka (Jun 29, 2010)

So what does this guy even average?


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## waffle=ijm (Jun 29, 2010)

have fun being slow.


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## JeffDelucia (Jun 29, 2010)

Until you reach the point where you turn so fast the friction causes your cube to melt by the end of the solve you can always improve by practicing...


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## Chapuunka (Jun 29, 2010)

JeffDelucia said:


> Until you reach the point where you turn so fast the friction causes your cube to melt by the end of the solve you can always improve by practicing...



Wouldn't you hate to have to buy a new cube after every solve?


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## vgbjason (Jun 29, 2010)

Chapuunka said:


> JeffDelucia said:
> 
> 
> > Until you reach the point where you turn so fast the friction causes your cube to melt by the end of the solve you can always improve by practicing...
> ...



At that point you'd be able to scare people into giving you a free supply of all the cubes you need by finger-ninja-ing them into submission


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## Erdos (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm sure that if you're going that fast, you'd probably break your fingers first. At least that would be the first of many things to go wrong.


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## PeterNewton (Jun 29, 2010)

i was so sure that this thread was about punani... darn it.
also, for such a stupid question, there is a whole lot of replies. the whole damn point of practicing is to improve. some mod should just close this thread. geez.


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## Andreaillest (Jun 29, 2010)

I don't see how one cannot practice and expect to be better. Really? How can you not practice cubing at all? Just stare at it and hope it magically solves itself in under 20 seconds?


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## Dene (Jun 29, 2010)

LMAO this guy is actually an idiot. I mean really... how stupid must he be? I think Edward summed it up nicely:



Edward said:


> Good luck with that.



Have a nice life working at a checkout in a supermarket.


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## PeterNewton (Jun 29, 2010)

Dene said:


> LMAO this guy is actually an idiot. I mean really... how stupid must he be? I think Edward summed it up nicely:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



but you have to practice for that...


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## JTW2007 (Jun 29, 2010)

Practice is important. It's easily possible to get a decent average (say sub-15) by pra–WAITWAITWAIT. Is there seriously a thread debating the merits of practice? How is that even subject to opinion?


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## PeterNewton (Jun 29, 2010)

JTW2007 said:


> Practice is important. It's easily possible to get a decent average (say sub-15) by pra–WAITWAITWAIT. Is there seriously a thread debating the merits of practice? How is that even subject to opinion?



have you read a single comment? there is no "discussion". just a collection of rants and raves. raves about practicing is good and rants about the thread's pointlessness/the OP's stupidity. argg its 2am. time for me to sleep. i wonder if this thread will still be on the front page tomorrow morning.


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## ssb150388 (Jun 29, 2010)

Read the signature.
Explains it all.


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## Andreaillest (Jun 29, 2010)

This reminds me of an old discussion my friends had in Biology.(Aww, the sophmore years...) anyway, we were debating about the statement, "Practice makes perfect." Someone inquired that it really should be, "Perfect practice makes perfect." And this lasted almost the whole class time. Ha, that discussion really went no where because we found it useless trying to make sense of it all. Kinda like this one right here!


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## nck (Jun 29, 2010)

Eleredo said:


> So in like every thread where the opener asks how to get faster, I mainly read the answer 'Practice', 'Practice' and... 'Practice'!
> 
> Some cubers even claim that you can average 30 seconds with ANY method. However, what I don't understand is; what exactly is it that makes you better by practicing?
> 
> ...



new WR. gratz

but seriously how much p----- do you think it will take for someone to "know all algorithms by heart and recognize patterns almost instantly"?


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## ribonzz (Jun 29, 2010)

"Practice makes perfect"


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## theace (Jun 29, 2010)

> but seriously how much p----- do you think it will take for someone to "know all algorithms by heart and recognize patterns almost instantly"?



Depends on how long you practice and you're brain's awesome quotient.

I got my times from "under a minute" to sub 30 with a few months of practice (Go Friedrich!) So, yeah, go practice.


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## Feryll (Jun 29, 2010)

Chapuunka said:


> JeffDelucia said:
> 
> 
> > Until you reach the point where you turn so fast the friction causes your cube to melt by the end of the solve you can always improve by practicing...
> ...



Now I know why Haiyan get's a new memory every week...


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## cincyaviation (Jun 29, 2010)

theace said:


> > but seriously how much p----- do you think it will take for someone to "know all algorithms by heart and recognize patterns almost instantly"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fridrich


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## Erdos (Jun 29, 2010)

you're -> your.
Also, it's a grammatically incorrect sentence, but who's counting? It doesn't really matter haha.


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## uberCuber (Jun 29, 2010)

@ Eleredo

how long have you been cubing?
come back when youve been cubing for a couple months and tell us how close you get to the 7.08 WR without practicing :fp


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## rubiknewbie (Jun 30, 2010)

I used to think practice helps. But I just realise you have to practice and think about it a bit. If you keep practising the wrongs things it won't help a lot.


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