# Aachen Summer Open 2012



## Sebastien (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm glad to anounce the Aachen Summer Open 2012 for 23rd/24th June.

Here is the website: http://cube.hackvalue.de/ao12/s/en

We hope for many competitors from all over the world!


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## Geert (Apr 24, 2012)

I was looking forward to this competition!


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## hcfong (Apr 24, 2012)

oh blast! it's about the only weekend around that time that I can't make it. Oh well....


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## Florian (Apr 24, 2012)

Why not a month later? Still in AU then.
anyway have fun guys


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## Erik (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm sad to see this 'trend' in the change of the payment system for registration, like German Open I heavily doubt if I will come.


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## Geert (Apr 24, 2012)

I really don't like it either, but I can understand it from an organizer's point of view.


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## Sebastien (Apr 24, 2012)

The reason for having this system (which is already succesfully used in other countries for years) is described on the website. This reason is the only thing about the system, which is sad. 

Also events similar to speedcubing competitions (like concerts) have always worked that way.

I see no reason to be against this systme except if you don't like Paypal or for very selfish reasons.


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## Kirjava (Apr 24, 2012)

shame that people who are unsure if they will go will simply now not go


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## Sebastien (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm not sure if you mean that as pro or con. 

Anyway: Everyone who is not sure needs to be sure at some time (no matter if prepayment or not). It's no problem to register just then, even if it's a week before the comp.


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## brunovervoort (Apr 24, 2012)

Aaah... the week-end after the exams... couldn't be better for me  Of course I will come 
What is the maximum number of competitors?


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## mycube (Apr 24, 2012)

Erik said:


> I'm sad to see this 'trend' in the change of the payment system for registration, like German Open I heavily doubt if I will come.


 
Look at the BW Open 2012 or Hessen Open 2012. There are 30 or more deregistrations. I still get some and the competition is THIS weekend. So I don't have the planned entrance fee and there is now no chance for the people on the waiting list to come because it´s just before the weekend.. I really like the 'new' system in Germany!


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## Sebastien (Apr 24, 2012)

brunovervoort said:


> What is the maximum number of competitors?


 
I didn't put one as I expect less competitors (~120) than we can manage (probably ~200)


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## Geert (Apr 25, 2012)

mycube said:


> Look at the BW Open 2012 or Hessen Open 2012. There are 30 or more deregistrations. I still get some and the competition is THIS weekend. So I don't have the planned entrance fee and there is now no chance for the people on the waiting list to come because it´s just before the weekend.. I really like the 'new' system in Germany!


 
This new system is really a great way to tackle the registration frenzy that has been going on with German competitions.
It gives people who really want to go a fair chance to register in time, so I definitely support it.
I just wonder if this system will be too high of a threshold for newcomers and people who are a little tentative if they can come.
Also being able to pay with paypal/creditcard is not a luxury that every person has. (especially the younger competitors who will probably have to ask their parent who may or may not have an account/credicard etc....)


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## Erik (Apr 25, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> I see no reason to be against this systme except if you don't like Paypal or for very selfish reasons.



Ehh? Can you elaborate that? I don't really get what you're trying to say here.

I can see how it's a good thing that this makes organizing easier, I just don't think it's the best way of tackling the issue. I agree with doyle4761 here.

I think it'd be a VERY good idea to maintain a database (I'd be very willing to make it) of competitors who frequently don't come to competitions without un-registering or/and those who cancel on forehand very shortly. This way organizers can estimate the likeliness of some people showing up. In addition the organizer could ask only those that are 'black sheep' to pay on forehand to make sure they have a drive to come.

Also this '_People cancelling until a week before the competition will get back half of the money. Full refund is not possible at all._' means that no matter if you get ill or find out a month before the competition that you are not able to come, you never get back your money. With the speed German competitions reach max. number of competitors, you just have to take a gamble if you're not sure to come. (of course Aachen is an exception here because of the huge capacity)

Just my $0,02, of course any organizer has the right to organize a competition the way he/she thinks is best.


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## TMOY (Apr 25, 2012)

doyle4761 said:


> This new system is really a great way to tackle the registration frenzy that has been going on with German competitions.
> It gives people who really want to go a fair chance to register in time, so I definitely support it.



I 100% agree. I find it much less annoying to have to pay 10 or 15 euros in advance than to have to decide in a hurry between registering and not being able to come at all.



> I just wonder if this system will be too high of a threshold for newcomers and people who are a little tentative if they can come.
> Also being able to pay with paypal/creditcard is not a luxury that every person has. (especially the younger competitors who will probably have to ask their parent who may or may not have an account/credicard etc....)



Younger competitors have to ask their parents anyway. And people to whom paying by paypal/creditcard causes trouble may still contact Sébastien to find another way of making the payment.


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## Geert (Apr 25, 2012)

TMOY said:


> Younger competitors have to ask their parents anyway. And people to whom paying by paypal/creditcard causes trouble may still contact Sébastien to find another way of making the payment.


 
You are right. But from personal experience, I know that that parents (lets just call them the elderly generation) don't always like the whole "online payment" thing.
If there is a way to not pay online (via paypal or creditcard), even better, I think parents will be more comfortable with that!


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## Sebastien (Apr 25, 2012)

Erik said:


> Ehh? Can you elaborate that? I don't really get what you're trying to say here.



Well, I mean kind of this:



Erik said:


> Also this '_People cancelling until a week before the competition will get back half of the money. Full refund is not possible at all._' means that no matter if you get ill or find out a month before the competition that you are not able to come, you never get back your money.



Do you think people should get their money back if they cancel? To me this attitude is pure selfishness. 
If you register for a competition, than the organiser counts on you to come. If just before the competition ~20 people cancel, than it is obviously better that those people loose the small amount of money that they paid for getting a spot at the competition than that the organiser looses a big amount of money he had counted on.

Giving back half of the money if people cancel soon enough is a very good compromise. Compare this to similar stuff: Concert tickets, flights, holidays, etc. You would never get your money back after you got a spot. 



Erik said:


> With the speed German competitions reach max. number of competitors, you just have to take a gamble if you're not sure to come. (of course Aachen is an exception here because of the huge capacity)


 
No, this is the past. The registration of German Open for example was open all the way until the competition. Another benefit of this system.



Erik said:


> I think it'd be a VERY good idea to maintain a database (I'd be very willing to make it) of competitors who frequently don't come to competitions without un-registering or/and those who cancel on forehand very shortly. This way organizers can estimate the likeliness of some people showing up. In addition the organizer could ask only those that are 'black sheep' to pay on forehand to make sure they have a drive to come.



Well, to my mind this is a terrible idea, because it splits all competitors into 2 classes without having a real benefit. No benefit because:

- _white sheeps_ are supposed to come any pay anyway, so they can just pay beforehand. The only difference is, when a white sheep doesn't show up (and thus turns into a _black sheep_, yay...)
- for _black sheeps_ and newcomers there is no difference.



doyle4761 said:


> You are right. But from personal experience, I know that that parents (lets just call them the elderly generation) don't always like the whole "online payment" thing.
> If there is a way to not pay online (via paypal or creditcard), even better, I think parents will be more comfortable with that!



Yes, this is a very annoying fact. But I see no better payment option than via Paypal. If you have one, please tell me! I'm just not willing to hand out my bank data due to potential abuse.


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## hcfong (Apr 25, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> Yes, this is a very annoying fact. But I see no better payment option than via Paypal. If you have one, please tell me! I'm just not willing to hand out my bank data due to potential abuse.



Do you mean you're not willing to hand out your bank details at all, or you're not willing to put it on the competition website? If it's the latter, then a possibility could be that competitors who cant' pay by Paypal, could contact you privately and get your bank details. If you're not willing to give them at all, then Paypal is probably the easiest way, although there are other ways, but these are more of a hassle and may not be available in Germany. For example, writing a cheque, bankers' draft or Western Union transfer. But these are usually slow and a lot a hassle.


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## Sebastien (Apr 25, 2012)

hcfong said:


> Do you mean you're not willing to hand out your bank details at all, or you're not willing to put it on the competition website? If it's the latter, then a possibility could be that competitors who cant' pay by Paypal, could contact you privately and get your bank details. If you're not willing to give them at all, then Paypal is probably the easiest way, although there are other ways, but these are more of a hassle and may not be available in Germany. For example, writing a cheque, bankers' draft or Western Union transfer. But these are usually slow and a lot a hassle.



I don't really see the difference between putting it on the website or giving it to various people in private. The possibility that someone uses the date to pay online is still available.


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## hcfong (Apr 25, 2012)

The difference is that if you put in on the website, everybody in the world with an internet connection can see it. If you give it privately, at least you know who you've given it to and if they are competition regulars, chances are that you know them personally as well and they're less likely to mess with you. 

Of course, I don't know how easy it is to abuse someone's bank details, but I would think that there are some measures banks have in place to prevent abuse. In The Netherlands, my bank number and name alone are never enough to pay online. I still need my bank card and pincode to complete the transaction online.


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## Erik (Apr 25, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> Do you think people should get their money back if they cancel? To me this attitude is pure selfishness.
> ...
> Giving back half of the money if people cancel soon enough is a very good compromise. Compare this to similar stuff: Concert tickets, flights, holidays, etc. You would never get your money back after you got a spot.



I disagree, plus I don't agree it's a good comparison. Speedcubing, where a big part of the competitors is under 18, is definitely not the same as a concert or booking a flight. And yes, if a competitor wants to come and wants to unregister a month before the competition I think it's fair to give him back all the money. Sometimes competitions are announced only a few weeks on forehand, switching competitions is not possible without loss of money now.



Sebastien said:


> No, this is the past. The registration of German Open for example was open all the way until the competition. Another benefit of this system.



So you might end up with a waiting list of lets say 30 people, all paying lets say 10 euros and have to trust you in giving it back? I trust you on this, but if I don't know the organizer personally I think twice before putting the money out there. (this adds up to the threshold doyle4761 was talking about)



Sebastien said:


> Well, to my mind this is a terrible idea, because it splits all competitors into 2 classes without having a real benefit. No benefit because:
> 
> - white sheeps are supposed to come any pay anyway, so they can just pay beforehand. The only difference is, when a white sheep doesn't show up (and thus turns into a black sheep, yay...)
> - for black sheeps and newcomers there is no difference.



Having a 'risk list' in combination with the possibility to pay at the venue (those who pay in advance get a discount) would be an excellent way to better calculate the risk of some people not coming. The discount system is being used for years and years now in chess without any problems: those who don't like online or pre-payment can just pay at the venue. Key is that at registration you say which way you want to pay. 

Competitors who frequently cancel or not come should/can be punished by the WCA anyway, if a risklist would exist and be maintained in combination with automatic punishments for those misbehaving there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.


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## mycube (Apr 25, 2012)

Erik said:


> Sometimes competitions are announced only a few weeks on forehand, switching competitions is not possible without loss of money now.


 
The german Competitions are announced long time before. at least 2 months.


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## Sebastien (Apr 25, 2012)

hcfong said:


> Of course, I don't know how easy it is to abuse someone's bank details, but I would think that there are some measures banks have in place to prevent abuse.



For paying at Amazon for example, you just need the bank data to pay via direct debit. 



Erik said:


> So you might end up with a waiting list of lets say 30 people, all paying lets say 10 euros and have to trust you in giving it back? I trust you on this, but if I don't know the organizer personally I think twice before putting the money out there. (this adds up to the threshold doyle4761 was talking about)



There was also no waiting list at German Open and I expect none for future comps as well.



Erik said:


> Having a 'risk list' ...



Would you put newcomers on that list?



Erik said:


> those who don't like online or pre-payment can just pay at the venue



Or just not show up without any direct consequences.



Erik said:


> Competitors who frequently cancel or not come should/can be punished by the WCA anyway, if a risklist would exist and be maintained in combination with automatic punishments for those misbehaving there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.



They should definitely!


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## Erik (Apr 25, 2012)

mycube said:


> The german Competitions are announced long time before. at least 2 months.


 
That doesn't mean the others are announced like that. Lets say someone from Spain registers for one of your competitions and one month later a competition in Spain is registered. He can't unregister without losing money.



Sebastien said:


> Or just not show up without any direct consequences.



First of all: there would be way less competitors paying cash if you get a discount online, remember you have to choose the way you pay at registration in my proposal. This way the problem is already solved for at least 80%. At chess tournaments only a handfull pays cash.
Secondly, direct consequences? Maybe not, but if not showing up will mean they can't compete in the future, or get some other punishment, this will not happen anymore. 



Sebastien said:


> They should definitely!



I hope they will start doing this soon, so the problem you're trying to solve wouldn't be a problem in the first place and make this new system uneccesary.


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## Tim Reynolds (Apr 25, 2012)

Registered!


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## jonlin (Apr 25, 2012)

What? No way!


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## Pitzu (May 8, 2012)

Guys! Could you recommend me the best way from Weeze airport to Aachen? Bus/train?! Or could I join to somebody's car? I'm landing at 10:55


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## Sebastien (May 9, 2012)

Weeze Airport is a bit away from everything (well, itÄs a ryanair airport so this is a common problem).
There is a bus going from Weeze Airport to "Kevelaer Bahnhof" or "Weeze Bahnhof". From there you can take a train to Krefeld and then another train to Aachen. The train station you should get out at in Aachen is "Aachen West".


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## Tyson (May 11, 2012)

Okay my take on this.

Having people pay before makes their commitment more meaningful. I don't think anyone disputes this. The issue here is that some people don't want to pay online for some reason.

You should be able to pay at the competition. The price of registration should rise as you get closer to the competition, so if your competition is on May 1, maybe it's 10 Euros online until April 15, and then after April 15, you have to register at the competition for 20 Euros, but at least you can pay cash.

OR, you could mail a check to the person in charge.

Please be mindful that this is an organization run by volunteers, and the idea of keeping a database of people who don't show up after registering, and then trying to enforce penalties on people who don't show up after registering is not only difficult to implement, but time consuming for organizers and delegates.


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## Pitzu (May 16, 2012)

Hi Guys,

Is there any preferred hostel for the competition?! Like last year http://www.hostel-aachen.de/index_en.html
As I remember last year it was 18€/night/person which is quite OK. Do they know about the competition? As I would like to book only 1 bed but then I would ask them to put me among cubers instead of unknown people.


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## Pitzu (May 16, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> Weeze Airport is a bit away from everything (well, itÄs a ryanair airport so this is a common problem).
> There is a bus going from Weeze Airport to "Kevelaer Bahnhof" or "Weeze Bahnhof". From there you can take a train to Krefeld and then another train to Aachen. The train station you should get out at in Aachen is "Aachen West".


Is it worth buying tickets now or later or personally?


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## Sebastien (May 16, 2012)

For the trains you mean? this makes no difference when you buy the tickets, I would just buy them as soon as you arrive.



Pitzu said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Is there any preferred hostel for the competition?! Like last year http://www.hostel-aachen.de/index_en.html
> As I remember last year it was 18€/night/person which is quite OK. Do they know about the competition? As I would like to book only 1 bed but then I would ask them to put me among cubers instead of unknown people.



Well, this hostel will be the prefered hostel as it is the only hostel directly linked on our website. We did not contact them as it made no difference last time, but I guess others have already reserved their beds there, so they will probably know about the competition.


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## Reinier Schippers (Jun 12, 2012)

Will be lots of fun!

If anyone has a cubesmith semi-bright or bright sticker set (3x3). I would like to buy it. Because the competition is in less than 2 weeks and since i dont have any stickers left, bu t i do want to put on some new stickers on saturday. Ofcourse i will pay for it!


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## Pitzu (Jun 20, 2012)

Guys, do you have any weather-forecast for Aachen this weekend?! What stuff shall we bring?! Shorts, sandals, winter coats, jackets?!


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## Sebastien (Jun 20, 2012)

well, it will likely be neither cold nor warm and will probably be raining at some point. I would advice to pack in normal jeans and a light rain-proof jacket.


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## Tim Reynolds (Jun 21, 2012)

Just got to Aachen, and checked in to the hostel. Looks like the 4 of us staying here who said we're cubers have a room together; right now it's just me by myself.

I assume not many people are in Aachen right now, but let me know if you are.


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## Sebastien (Jun 21, 2012)

well, all people from Aachen are in Aachen 

Where is your hostel located? If you're interested in meeting this evening for eating, beer and cubing just cantact me via PM


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## Tim Reynolds (Jun 22, 2012)

Good point 

Seems I can only get online occassionally, since there's only 4 ethernet cables in the hostel, and no wireless. My hostel is http://hostel-aachen.de/, by the Aachen Schanz station. I guess I'll just meet up with you guys tonight, since I can't get online often enough to arrange something else.


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## Sebastien (Jun 22, 2012)

yes, it's a bit too late now for yesterday evening


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## pady (Jun 24, 2012)

BREAKING NEWS:

Sebastian Weyer broke the 4x4 WR with a 30.81 average
btw in the first round, the final will follow 

His results:
28.02, 27.43, 32.91, 34.53, 31.50


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## Mr Cubism (Jun 24, 2012)

pady said:


> BREAKING NEWS:
> 
> Sebastian Weyer broke the 4x4 WR with a 30.81 average
> btw in the first round, the final will follow
> ...



You must be joking....!?! :confused:


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## Slowpoke22 (Jun 24, 2012)

O_O lolwut no way


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## cubernya (Jun 24, 2012)

Mr Cubism said:


> You must be joking....!?! :confused:



It's possible, he already had a 34 average


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## kbh (Jun 24, 2012)

And Björn Korbanka got a 0.84 single? xd Should be 10.84 I guess.


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## pady (Jun 24, 2012)

Of course, this is no joking or whatever. He posted this a month ago on the german forum


> Average of 5: 29.07
> 1. 29.95 r' F2 u D' R2 f' L2 R' B' D2 R' r' f' B' R' U' D' f' u U r' U' F2 f' B2 r' B2 r' f' D R' L f R D' U' L f' D R
> 2. (28.48) R' D u' R F2 R2 u R u F' D R' B' f' L' D u' R2 r' U2 R' B R2 F2 f2 r2 L' F u2 R f B D' F' u2 F' r U R B'
> 3. 28.56 R B2 R' f D' L f R' B' R D2 f2 u' F' L2 B2 r2 U' D2 r' F' D' L2 R f2 u2 r U2 r f2 D' F u' r L F2 u R' B u2
> ...


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## Mr Cubism (Jun 24, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> It's possible, he already had a 34 average



I know he´s fast, but this is riddikuluss!


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## Sebastien (Jun 24, 2012)

It is true of course, results are up now 

Thanks Tim!


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## amostay2004 (Jun 25, 2012)

Uhh okay just saw the WR on WCA page because I wasn't following this thread, but WAT. 30.81 average??!! Please tell me there's a video!


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## TanLaiChen (Jun 25, 2012)

insane....not human...
but...i want video!!!!!


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## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Jun 25, 2012)

I'll be crying myself to sleep for a week.

Congratulations Sebastian!


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## rubiksarlen (Jun 25, 2012)

And its only 1s away from his home PB avg (rite? correct me if I'm wrong) !! And a counting sub-30 too! So close to single WR o___O


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## Cubenovice (Jun 25, 2012)

4x4x4 Congratulations to Sebastien and Marco.

And congratulations François!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Sebastien (Jun 25, 2012)

rubiksarlen said:


> And its only 1s away from his home PB avg (rite? correct me if I'm wrong)



Well, at least 1.74 apparently. Rounding this down to 1 looks false to me.



Cubenovice said:


> 4x4x4 Congratulations to Sebastien [...]



Thanks. I did quite decent in the first round despite lots of parities. But I assume your congratulations go to Sebasti*a*n Weyer 


------------------------------------------------


Concerning a video of the WR Average: The solves were filmed, but Sebastian got a quite slow internet connection at home and it took him mostly several days in the past already to upload videos. So we might have to wait until the end of the week.


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## Reinier Schippers (Jun 25, 2012)

I scrambledyour cube, i checked the entire cube everytime to make sure i scrambled correctly


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## Erik (Jun 25, 2012)

I sadly lost my 3x3. If you competed please check for your cubes. It's a Zhan Chi with normal cubesmith stickers (not bright). To be sure it's mine: open it and smell it. It's lubed with Thai lube so it should smell like shampoo xD (not joking).

First 2 rounds were Roux


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## Carrot (Jun 25, 2012)

Erik: I finally get why people are lubing it with shampoo!! it's easier to smell your way to it!


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## 5BLD (Jun 25, 2012)

Erik said:


> First 2 rounds were Roux



:3


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## blah (Jun 26, 2012)

erik #4 bld by < 1 second... twice


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## Mollerz (Jun 26, 2012)

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER.

http://i.imgur.com/TdGS4.png

Congrats Francois, finally!


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## Crazycubemom (Jun 26, 2012)

Congratulations to Sebastian Weyer <3 with amazing WR @ 4x4x4 avg and thank you to make competition so exciting with this WR, I hope to see you again and again and again with WR's @ this your favorite event  And also congratulations to all the winners.


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## DYGH.Tjen (Jun 26, 2012)

Sebastian.

wat.

Congrats! O__O


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## JianhanC (Jun 26, 2012)

That explains Erik's 1st and 2nd round times, I saw the results on WCA and was wondering what happened


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