# Faster N Permutations



## StaticPulse13851 (May 8, 2008)

All of the N perms that I found suck. I want some N permutations that are faster, better, and use more finger tricks. (I ****ing love fingertricks)


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## Crzyazn (May 8, 2008)

http://www.cubingtechniques.com/cubing/pll/

Have faith in his...


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## brunson (May 9, 2008)

N is so funny. So many people hate their algorithm, and I'm not particularly fond of mine, but everyone just seems to suck it up. I do a very typical alg that I'm pretty sure I got from Macky's page, but I changed it by flipping U to L or R. That allows me to do what would normally be L and R are U and D, which I can do with LH first and ring fingers while gripping the cube with my LH on E, all the while RH is doing R, R' and R2. It's not the greatest, but it works for me.

Bob Burton's comment on one of his alg's is simple, "this alg blows."


I'd really be interested to hear from anyone that is pleased with their N.


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## Aub227 (May 17, 2008)

For N:a I use this: (RUR'U) (J:b perm) (U'RU'R'). My J:b perm is (RUR'F') (RUR'U'R'F) (R2U'R'U'). It's rather long, but is easy and flows nicely. I hate D and B moves, so this fits my style. For N:b, I use (R'URU') (R'F'U'FRU) (R'FR'F'RU'R). 
-- Auburn


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## watermelon (May 17, 2008)

I think I just use the stardard URL algs (with a z before execution), and I can usually execute either N-perm sub-2.


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## hait2 (May 18, 2008)

i like my N
(R U' R' U) (l U F) U' (R' F' R U' R U l' U R')
but surely you've already found this one, so I dunno what to tell you


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## Lt-UnReaL (May 18, 2008)

Don't Nakajima and Chan do something like an R turn and then do a Z rotation and then some huge finger trick? What alg is that?


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## Crzyazn (May 18, 2008)

I don't understand how Nakajima gets his Ns so fast...I think the key is in his Z axis turn or r axis turn in japanese notation

Someone needs to make a fingertrick video...


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## death_kg (May 18, 2008)

Does anyone have the PLL/OLL video of Nakaji/Chan?


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## PCwizCube (May 18, 2008)

death_kg said:


> Does anyone have the PLL/OLL video of Nakaji/Chan?


*Harris Chan:*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzsVK_ivo20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6RktqTnRls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9hi8R5ZKxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QO0bTplTkI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzsFgqGOtb8
*
Yu Nakajima: (Nakaji)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aKhrwTMgW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT4PWHioQhQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk1q334pjic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB_HxPiaVa8


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## death_kg (May 25, 2008)

Thanks for your help,
they are really useful!


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## Kenneth (May 25, 2008)

R' U L' U2 R U' L

Repeat it twice, do the last L in the first round while you start the first R in the second round. Sometimes when I practice it I can do all turns in the alg as one looong trigger.

2x(L U' R U2 L' U R') makes the mirror.


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## nicoJ (May 25, 2008)

did you guys try this one?

i do not know if this algorithm is for Na or Nb
but just try it

R U R' (u) *R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L* (u') R U' R'

the idea is very simple
is just to set up the cube in order to solve N pll as a L pll
so for the other way, you just have to start like R' U' R and apply the other L (normally called J) pll

any questions, ask, and i'll be pleased of answering


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## Kickflip1993 (May 25, 2008)

hey nicoJ Kupfer

the second (u) should be (u')


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## MistArts (May 25, 2008)

nicoJ Kupfer said:


> did you guys try this one?
> 
> i do not know if this algorithm is for Na or Nb
> but just try it
> ...



Isn't it Called J-Perm...?


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## blgentry (May 25, 2008)

Thank you NicoJ !!

I kind of like those. I've been putting off learning the Ns, as they are the last PLLs that I do not have memorized and I don't like any of the ones that I have tried. 

I just ran through these a few times and they are very easy to remember, since they have the embedded J (or L as you said) PLLs. I'm not super fast with them, but they work, and are certainly faster than doing a Y perm followed by a U perm, which is what I've been doing instead.

So how did you figure that out? I can't see the J permutation at all in the middle. I'm very curious how you came up with this idea.

Brian.


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## blgentry (May 27, 2008)

So I've been playing with NicoJ's idea and drilled the Ns like crazy with this method and I liked my results.

Just a few minutes ago, I decided to actually look at the blocks during the (R U R' u) setup and, amazingly enough, I actually see how the blocks have been moved into a J perm.

So I asked myself, why is the last setup move a (u) instead of a simple (U) ?

I couldn't see a reason, so I tried it out. It works with a setup of (R U R' U) just as well. Obviously, the "unsetup" (commutator?) now must become: (U' R U' R')

This has an interesting consequence for me in both of the N perms due to the type of J perms that I use. Specifically:

J1: (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R2 U' R' U')
J2: (L' U' L F) (L' U' L U) (L F' L2 U L U)

So now putting it together:

N1 = R' U' R U + J2 + U' R' U R

Notice that J2 ends with (U), but the next move in the sequence is U' . So they cancel out, making the alg shorter. Altogether:

N1: (R' U' R U) (L' U' L F) (L' U' L U) (L F' L2 U L) (R' U R)

N2 is similar in that J1 ends with U' and the next move in the sequence is another U' , which yields a U2. Altogether:

N2: (R U R' U) (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R2 U' R') U2 (R U' R')

These are long, but because they contain so many triggers, and of course the familiar Js, they are reasonably fast, at least by my slow standards.

This is great for me since I have never found any Ns that I liked previously and thus had put off learning them. Give these a try and you might find you like them as much as I do.

Brian.


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## Johannes91 (May 27, 2008)

blgentry said:


> So I asked myself, why is the last setup move a (u) instead of a simple (U) ?


(u) = y


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## mrCage (May 27, 2008)

Notation, notation ...



-Per


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## blgentry (May 27, 2008)

Johannes91 said:


> blgentry said:
> 
> 
> > So I asked myself, why is the last setup move a (u) instead of a simple (U) ?
> ...



Well that's irritating. I can understand when notations are different, for example having Uw meaning the same thing as u . But now the modifier is a set of parenthesis? Oh well, I guess I'll learn these as I go along. I was simply trying to offset a single letter of notation in the middle of my sentence. I hadn't even realized that NicoJ had done it and had meant y when he typed (u) .

It's an interesting coincidence that both methods work and that my analysis still holds true. So the question becomes, what would you rather do: Rotate the cube a quarter turn, or turn the U face a quarter turn? I know my answer. 

...oh and I still thank NicoJ for this. This is awesome. 

Brian.


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## mrCage (May 27, 2008)

Hi 

The idea behind J-perm and N-perm are very similar.

Swap 2 c-e pairs twice to achieve the desired effect. In fact a commutator idea at heart ...

*J-perm :* (d2 = (ED)2 ) - bottom 2 layers together

R' L' d2 L R (first swap)

R' U L' d2 L U' R' (second swap)

(Adjust the U layer, then rewrite in pure UDFBRL notation ...)

*N-perm : *

1 = R' U L' d2 L U' R (first swap)

2 = L' U R' d2 R U' L (second swap - symmetric to first swap)

(Adjust the U layer, then rewrite in pure UDFBRL notation ...)

Deliberately i didn't do the rewriting/cancellation for these perms (exercise).

- Per


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## brunson (May 27, 2008)

Kenneth said:


> R' U L' U2 R U' L
> 
> Repeat it twice, do the last L in the first round while you start the first R in the second round. Sometimes when I practice it I can do all turns in the alg as one looong trigger.
> 
> 2x(L U' R U2 L' U R') makes the mirror.


Those are the alg I use, but I do either a z' or a z (respectively) and invert them so they turn into:

z' (U L' D L2' U' L D')x2
and
z (U' R D' R2 U R' D)x2

I like the way the L/R spins forwards, then back and I can execute the U/D moves with index and ring finger of either hand, as appropriate.

It just feels very fluid and zen. ;-)


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## Dene (May 27, 2008)

The problem with using a setup, then another alg, then an anti-setup is that you will never be able to do it faster than the middle alg. This isn't a problem if your targets aren't too high, but if you're aiming for sub2 every time you're making it difficult for yourself.


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## blgentry (May 27, 2008)

Dene said:


> The problem with using a setup, then another alg, then an anti-setup is that you will never be able to do it faster than the middle alg. This isn't a problem if your targets aren't too high, but if you're aiming for sub2 every time you're making it difficult for yourself.



I'm not advanced enough to be shooting for PLLs that fast. Plus I'm not sure I can sub-2 any alg. My finger tricks and dexterity just aren't that good. I think my absolute fastest PLL is in the 3.3 second range. For me, simply having an N perm that is faster than a Y + cube rotate + U is a big win. Every N I've tried just sucked. So I'm happy to have something that I can remember and can do relatively fluidly.

I get your point of course. Maybe when I get a lot faster, many, many months from now, I'll be down to shaving seconds off of my PLLs.

Brian.


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## nicoJ (Jun 21, 2008)

actually the idea just came of thinking for a fastest method
for example, to do T (in the position of a T rotated 90º clockwise)

if we do R2 U' R2 now we do J1 and we undo the first 3 moves, so we do R2 U R2
this way we solve a T perm (wich is not userfull, because T is faster) when you dont know too many PLLs.
when i was starting, first plls i learned were U, A and J
so with that 3 algs you could solve any PLL with a maximum (and sometimes you just have to do 1 pll) number of 2 plls, wich in any other way all plls except for those 3 (u, a and J) will be of 2 plls to solve it

i dont know if you understand.. i can't explain it better
any questions, ask me


so it came of... "how can i transform a pll to another without doing a pll?"
and N came by itself


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