# PLL Time Attack discussion



## Vampirate713 (Jan 19, 2009)

While you are doing the PLL Time Attack, you usually end up with an unsolved cube. I want to know if anyone knows of an order where you do each of the PLL's, and end up with a solved cube again?


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## amostay2004 (Jan 19, 2009)

I'm sure it isn't that hard to work the order out...there must be several ways to end up with a solved cube..


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## MistArts (Jan 19, 2009)

I'm sure people use different angles for each case, so you have to work out your own.


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## blah (Jan 19, 2009)

Mine goes back to the solved state  AND it's nice to perform (for me). I was customizing my PLL order to get a smooth transition from every PLL to the next, and I got a solved cube at the end by chance, so that order's been stuck ever since.

G: R U R' y' R2 Uw' R U' R' U R' Uw R2 (smooth transition into next G)
G: R'2 Uw' R U' R U R' Uw R2 y R U' R' (smooth transition into next G)
G: R' U' R y R'2 Uw R' U R U' R Uw' R2 (smooth transition into next G)
G: R'2 Uw R' U R' U' R Uw' R2 y' R' U R (smooth transition into N)
N: R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R (smooth transition into next N)
N: R U' R' U Lw U F U' R' F' R U' R U Lw' U Lw' (smooth transition into E)
E: U R' U' L U R U' Rw'2 U' R U L U' R' U (smooth transition into A)
A: R U' R D2 R' U R D2 R'2 (smooth transition into next A)
A: R2 D'2 R' U' R D'2 R' U R'
H: M'2 U M'2 U2 M'2 U M'2 (smooth transition into Z)
Z: U2 M'2 U M'2 U M' U2 M'2 U2 M'
R: U R U'2 R' U2 Lw U' R' F' R F R U (R' Lw') (smooth transition into F)
F: U' R' U R U' (R' Lw') Dw' R' U R y' R U R' U' (R Lw) (smooth transition into R)
R: R' U2 R U'2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 U' (smooth transition into V)
V: R' U R' U' y R' F' R2 U' R' U R' F R F (smooth transition into U)
U: R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 (smooth transition into next U)
U: R'2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R' (smooth transition into Y)
Y: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F' R F' (smooth transition into T)
T: R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' (smooth transition into J)
J: R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' Rw (smooth transition into next J) (the RFU J perm flows nicely _from_ T, but not _to_ the next J)
J: (you already did an x rotation) U2 Rw' U' Rw U2 Lw' U R' U' R2
Solved!

If you use non-slicing H and Z perms, then the whole sequence just flows like magic. But, I like slicing 

I can hit 9.xx tps from the nice R perm onwards. It's part of my "philosophy" that PLL time attacks should start with the bad algs and end with the nice ones, this way I can just stop the timer and reset if I don't sub-8 after the G's, or if I don't sub-13 after the N's, something like that. And smooth algs at the end are always better because that's when you tend to get nervous and lock up.

It's not the best, but it can't be a bad sequence either, because I can sub-40 with it


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## rcnrcn927 (Jun 7, 2009)

The order doesn't matter for PLL attack, right?


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## mcciff2112 (Jun 7, 2009)

rcnrcn927 said:


> The order doesn't matter for PLL attack, right?



No, just as long as you do all 21 Plls


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## Zarxrax (Jul 30, 2009)

I've recently finished learning the PLLs, and I'm interested in PLL time attack. 
I still make frequent mistakes on some of my PLLs, so just doing all 21 PLLs and then finding out if I did it correctly isn't going to work for me. 
I'm ideally looking for an order where the cube will return to a solved state at the end, and at least a few other times throughout the solve. I was able to work this out myself for about half of the algorithms, but then I started getting stuck.

Is something like this possible at all?


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## Zaxef (Jul 30, 2009)

This question has been asked SO many times.. use the search function


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## blah (Jul 30, 2009)

G G G G N N E A A H Z R F R V U U Y T J J

Cube returns to solved state after execution  Check out my signature if you want some credibility  Would you like a video of this? Or would a list of the exact algs I perform suffice?


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## Zaxef (Jul 30, 2009)

blah said:


> G G G G N N E A A H Z R F R V U U Y T J J
> 
> Cube returns to solved state after execution  Check out my signature if you want some credibility  Would you like a video of this? Or would a list of the exact algs I perform suffice?



Please do list them
including cube rotations too.. since I don't end up with a solved cube :/


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## blah (Jul 30, 2009)

This was from another thread quite some time ago, but it got ignored    I've changed some stuff since then, but (1) it gets the cube back to the solved state, and (2) it's sub-40-able, so you should be fine with it.



blah said:


> Mine goes back to the solved state  AND it's nice to perform (for me). I was customizing my PLL order to get a smooth transition from every PLL to the next, and I got a solved cube at the end by chance, so that order's been stuck ever since.
> 
> G: R U R' y' R2 Uw' R U' R' U R' Uw R2 (smooth transition into next G)
> G: R'2 Uw' R U' R U R' Uw R2 y R U' R' (smooth transition into next G)
> ...



I'll make a video if you still want my current PLL time attack sequence, just ask


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## Jokerman5656 (Jul 30, 2009)

i would also like to see that if it isn't too much trouble.


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## Zarxrax (Jul 31, 2009)

a video would be nice


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## DanHarris (Jun 24, 2010)

*PLL Time Attack*

Hi,

I have a question regarding PLL time attack - do you have to perform a full PLL including any final U turns or rotations?

So for example - on a solved cube, is (y) R' U' R U' R U R U' R' U R U R2 U' R' a valid PLL, or do you have to put U2 at the end?

Cheers,

Dan


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## riffz (Jun 24, 2010)

DanHarris said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a question regarding PLL time attack - do you have to perform a full PLL including any final U turns or rotations?
> 
> ...



You don't have to AUF.


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## DanHarris (Jun 24, 2010)

yeah but do you have to align U layer at the end? So for example, in the PLL time attack, the PLL you are doing might not correspond to the PLL on the cube, but you still have to execute it as if it were, ie in the example i gave, would you need to do U2 at the end?


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## amostay2004 (Jun 24, 2010)

I would, just because it's part of the PLL


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## Escher (Jun 24, 2010)

DanHarris said:


> yeah but do you have to align U layer at the end? So for example, in the PLL time attack, the PLL you are doing might not correspond to the PLL on the cube, but you still have to execute it as if it were, ie in the example i gave, would you need to do U2 at the end?



Nah, you can ignore any pre or post AUFs completely


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## Edward (Jun 24, 2010)

Well now that that's solved...

You forgot about the OAQT :I


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## DanHarris (Jun 24, 2010)

thanks guys


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## coinman (Jun 24, 2010)

Do you think you can take Breandan?


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## DanHarris (Jun 24, 2010)

I doubt it, he is too good. But I never tried it before - just investigating a good order, and I would like it to finish up solved (the OCD in me) so any old order just wont do!


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## Repsela (Jul 20, 2014)

*Pll attack*

I've not ever used this training method for get me faster with Pll algs. What is the best way to apply it? All Pll in a casual sequence or else?


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## CriticalCubing (Jul 20, 2014)

Repsela said:


> I've not ever used this training method for get me faster with Pll algs. What is the best way to apply it? All Pll in a casual sequence or else?


I do it like A E F G H J ... in sequence but you can change the sequence to have a solved cube in the end. Once I have a solved cube after Z perm but I was doing random sequence!


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## QPowerPrime (Nov 12, 2014)

I do COLL time attack and it makes my hands hurt like **** because of all the Dw' R Uw R' (insert alg here) turns I use with ZZ.
They flow nicely but each of them needs their own grip which is extremely annoying

My PLL time attack record is 25.63 seconds and my COLL is 39.47
It is amazing for practising LL algs. (I don't use fridrich but should I learn full OLL and do time attacks or should I stick with (cross-COLL-Edge PLL):confused:
I will be using this for 4x4 solves as i can't do EOline.


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## GuRoux (Nov 12, 2014)

QPowerPrime said:


> I do COLL time attack and it makes my hands hurt like **** because of all the Dw' R Uw R' (insert alg here) turns I use with ZZ.
> They flow nicely but each of them needs their own grip which is extremely annoying
> 
> My PLL time attack record is 25.63 seconds and my COLL is 39.47
> ...



Nice! those time attacks are insanely fast!


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## TDM (Nov 12, 2014)

QPowerPrime said:


> They flow nicely but each of them needs their own grip which is extremely annoying


Try changing the order you do them in so you don't have to regrip as much between algs.


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## Y2k1 (Nov 30, 2016)

Hello
Is there a pll time attack order that ends on solved? I think ive seen an order like it before, but not sure. Thanks.


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## bryson (Jun 2, 2017)

Y2k1 said:


> Hello
> Is there a pll time attack order that ends on solved? I think ive seen an order like it before, but not sure. Thanks.


The short answer is, yes, there are actually very many orders that begin and end in a solved cube. The thing is that the specific order is dependent on you algs. For example, if you did your Ja perm from the back and I did mine from the left we would end up with different orders.

The good news is that I have written a python program that can solve for the order. I can give you an order for your algs (or several if you would like) that would have the LL end up solved after PLL time attack. All you need to do is write out your PLL Algorithms for me to put into the program.

I can not promise that the PLLs will lead into one another as far as finger position goes. And you may have an AUF to deal with at the very end, but you will have a working order (or several if you like). Just let me know.


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## moneybomb3605 (Jul 24, 2018)

Hello, I just started to get into PLL time attacks. I’m around sub 19 and I’m getting 45-49 seconds for all 21 PLL’s. Is that a good time for sub 19 or what times should I be getting? Thanks


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## Hazel (Jul 25, 2018)

moneybomb3605 said:


> Hello, I just started to get into PLL time attacks. I’m around sub 19 and I’m getting 45-49 seconds for all 21 PLL’s. Is that a good time for sub 19 or what times should I be getting? Thanks


That's probably fine, I average low 12's and my PLL Time attacks are in the low-30's.


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## Cubing Forever (Oct 29, 2020)

A 2 year bump.
Btw here's my order:
Ua Ub Rb V Ga Gb Gc Gd Ra Z H T Jb Ja F E Aa Ab Na Nb Y
I average low 50s


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## Hazwi (Aug 28, 2022)

Basically i want a pll time attack order with my plls. heres a screenshot of all my plls that i use:


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