# Let WCA allow the Dayan color cubes



## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

hey I have a very good modded guhong color and I really want to use it at a comp so help me.

If this poll gets 500 yeses by Christmas then i will email WCA asking them to allow them

If you all say that I need to get a regular guhong I still have my lunhui


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## emolover (Dec 3, 2011)

Mod a single color cube to the point of your "good" Guhong.


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## qqwref (Dec 3, 2011)

It looks like you don't understand why they don't allow those cubes.

The reason is that, when you turn one face by 45 degrees (half of a normal quarter turn), you can see the colors of some stickers you shouldn't be able to see. For example, if you turn the top face by 45 degrees, you can see the BR and BL stickers. The WCA has decided that this is an unfair advantage for lookahead, and so these cubes aren't allowed.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

emolover said:


> Mod a single color cube to the point of your "good" Guhong.


 
it toke me like 10 hours to get mine as good as it is right now and its verry well broken in and i don't want to pay $15 for a new black/white guhong.


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## aaronb (Dec 3, 2011)

Do you honestly think one email will make them do anything?


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## emolover (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> it toke me like 10 hours to get mine as good as it is right now and its verry well broken in and i don't want to pay $15 for a new black/white guhong.


 
You have five eastsheen 4x4's but only one Guhong. :fp


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

qqwref said:


> It looks like you don't understand why they don't allow those cubes.
> 
> The reason is that, when you turn one face by 45 degrees (half of a normal quarter turn), you can see the colors of some stickers you shouldn't be able to see. For example, if you turn the top face by 45 degrees, you can see the BR and BL stickers. The WCA has decided that this is an unfair advantage for lookahead, and so these cubes aren't allowed.


 
I know that but why are they allowing tiled cubes like the Mefferts 4x4 with tiles on them. If you look at one side you will see the other colors on the tiles on the 4 sides around the side you looking at.



emolover said:


> You have five eastsheen 4x4's but only one Guhong. :fp


 
no I only have one the others are broken


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## emolover (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> no I only have one the others are broken


 
But you still have bought *5*!!! Yet you have only bought *1* Guhong.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

emolover said:


> But you still have bought *5*!!! Yet you have only bought *1* Guhong.


 
why are you talking about eastsheens when this thread is not about them


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## Goosly (Dec 3, 2011)

Just buy a ZhanChi. It's at least twice as awesome as your 'good' not-competition-legal Guhong.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

emolover said:


> Because you have spent like $70 on eastsheen **** cubes but you are too cheap to spend $12 on a Guhong! That doesn't make sense.


 
look here dose it look like i spend that much on cubes


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

Goosly said:


> Just buy a ZhanChi. It's at least twice as awesome as your 'good' not-competition-legal Guhong.


 
i do have a dayan lunhui but by guhong is faster


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## emolover (Dec 3, 2011)

Goosly said:


> Just buy a ZhanChi. It's at least twice as awesome as your 'good' not-competition-legal Guhong.


 
No. ZhanChi's are not better than Guhongs. Its a personal preference.


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## aaronb (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> I know that but why are they allowing tiled cubes like the Mefferts 4x4 with tiles on them. If you look at one side you will see the other colors on the tiles on the 4 sides around the side you looking at.


 


WCA Regulations said:


> 3f)	Stickers/tiles/textures/paint must not be thicker than 1.5 mm, or the generally available thickness for non cube puzzles.



The tiles are only allowed if they are under 1.5 mm, and not stupidly large. So you gain no advantage from tiles.


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## Goosly (Dec 3, 2011)

emolover said:


> No. ZhanChi's are not better than Guhongs. Its a personal preference.



The ZhanChi pops less, is faster, is smoother and has insane reverse corner cutting. So it's better than the GuHong.
Saying it is too fast makes no sense, that's like saying a pc with 4GB RAM is better than one with 6GB because you don't need the 6.



Michael Womack said:


> i do have a dayan lunhui but by guhong is faster


 
Sure. LunHui's are not very good. That's why I said you should buy a ZhanChi


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## antoineccantin (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> i do have a dayan lunhui but by guhong is faster


 
Lunhuis are not half as good as Zhachis. (my opinion)


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

antoineccantin said:


> Lunhuis are not half as good as Zhachis. (my opinion)


 
with my guhong it is insanely fast modded it so its very hard to make it pop and its just overall smother/faster.


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## Goosly (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> with my guhong it is insanely fast modded it so its very hard to make it pop and its just overall smother/faster.


 
What are you trying to say? I think everyone would agree that Guhongs are better than LunHui's.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

Goosly said:


> What are you trying to say? I think everyone would agree that Guhongs are better than LunHui's.


 
no im just saynig that my guhong is good


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## RNewms27 (Dec 3, 2011)

We are saying colored cubes offer an advantage that stickered cubes cannot. They made it illegal for a reason.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

RNewms27 said:


> We are saying colored cubes offer an advantage that stickered cubes cannot. They made it illegal for a reason.


 
how is there an advantage but if your going the same speed as Feliks then you will have like .10 seconds to see the split pieces colors


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## Goosly (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> how is there an advantage but if your going the same speed as Feliks then you will have like .10 seconds to see the split pieces colors


 
qqwref already explained the advantage.


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## RNewms27 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> how is there an advantage but if your going the same speed as Feliks then you will have like .10 seconds to see the split pieces colors


 
The reason he turns fast is because he CAN see the colors. And anybody slower than him just has to do half a U turn to see almost every piece.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Dec 3, 2011)

I actually agree with the OP here, but not for the stated reasons. I fail to see how people can get an advantage by seeing the extra stuff, if everyone else would be allowed to use the same type of cube too. If it's legal for all cubers, nobody has an unfair advantage, and I think it's just silly that they were illegal to start with.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> I actually agree with the OP here, but not for the stated reasons. I fail to see how people can get an advantage by seeing the extra stuff, if everyone else would be allowed to use the same type of cube too. If it's legal for all cubers, nobody has an unfair advantage, and I think it's just silly that they were illegal to start with.


 
agree with you and as what qqwref said i don't think that many people would tun a side 45 degrees just for look ahead


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## BlueDevil (Dec 3, 2011)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> I actually agree with the OP here, but not for the stated reasons. I fail to see how people can get an advantage by seeing the extra stuff, if everyone else would be allowed to use the same type of cube too. If it's legal for all cubers, nobody has an unfair advantage, and I think it's just silly that they were illegal to start with.



But then they have to make many more regulations on what inner piece color schemes are allowed to look like. It's just more complicated for them. 

Michael is just mad because he worked hard on a competition illegal cube, nothing more. If people really hate cubes with stickers or tiles, just get one with painted colors that is competition legal. There really is no reason to switch because everything is fine the way it is.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

UnAbusador said:


> They should allow stickerless cubes. Sure, they DO offer and advantage but anyone still has the option to either use them or not. Has anyone though that these cubes might actually be pushing speedsolving forward by allowing faster recognition and probably new solving styles/techniques?


 
i know and im agreeing with you its like how dayanshing and some other brands ave the stickers panted on so thay last longer


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## irontwig (Dec 3, 2011)

qqwref said:


> It looks like you don't understand why they don't allow those cubes.
> 
> The reason is that, when you turn one face by 45 degrees (half of a normal quarter turn), you can see the colors of some stickers you shouldn't be able to see. For example, if you turn the top face by 45 degrees, you can see the BR and BL stickers. The WCA has decided that this is an unfair advantage for lookahead, and so these cubes aren't allowed.



Who cares? It's obviously a ridiculous reason. Even if it would be an advantage, what would the problem be? It would just be the same thing as when a higher quality puzzle comes out; people who care enough would buy it and start using it instead.


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## BlueDevil (Dec 3, 2011)

But then records could not compare to old ones. It would have to be a new event or something. The logistics of it require too much from the WCA. Just give it up and follow the current rules.

I ask people who approve of colored cubes for lookahead: do you support use of steroids in baseball? because it's a similar concept. Sure, everyone can use it, but is it really the right thing to have allowed?


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## insane569 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> i know and im agreeing with you its like how dayanshing and some other brands ave the stickers panted on so thay last longer


 
im sorry i cant understand whay your saying
but its not gonna happen even if you get all these votes(which you wont even hit 200 all together)
just get another cube and mod it stop complaining about the rules


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

insane569 said:


> im sorry i cant understand whay your saying
> but its not gonna happen even if you get all these votes(which you wont even hit 200 all together)
> just get another cube and mod it stop complaining about the rules


 
its like how the allow different size cubes so why not the Dayan colored ones the the same as the stickered ones


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## cuberkid10 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> i know and im agreeing with you its like how dayanshing and some other brands ave the stickers panted on so thay last longer


 
That offers no advantage


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## Nestor (Dec 3, 2011)

BlueDevil said:


> I ask people who approve of colored cubes for lookahead: do you support use of steroids in baseball? because it's a similar concept. Sure, everyone can use it, but is it really the right thing to have allowed?


 
We are talking about hardware here, not performance enhancing drugs. The fairness lies in that anyone can use the hardware they wish to. Also using baseball as an analogy, it would be like banning spikes on the shoes because they provide more grip (when they first came out).


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

cuberkid10 said:


> That offers no advantage


 
why and what is it?


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

UnAbusador said:


> We are talking about hardware here, not performance enhancing drugs. The fairness lies in that anyone can use the hardware they wish to. Also using baseball as an analogy, it would be like banning spikes on the shoes because they provide more grip (when they first came out).


 
I agree with that statement.


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## insane569 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> its like how the allow different size cubes so why not the Dayan colored ones the the same as the stickered ones


 
the size has nothing to do with it cause you gain no advantages from it unless its OH


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## ben1996123 (Dec 3, 2011)

no.


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## cuberkid10 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> why and what is it?


 
Painted dianshengs. The painted stickers offer no performance enhancement, so it's an invalid arguement.


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## deathbypapercutz (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> look here dose it look like i spend that much on cubes


 
yes


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## antoineccantin (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> I think he left speedsolving along time ago.



I don't think so: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/search.php?searchid=308186


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## MovingOnUp (Dec 3, 2011)

No one is going to change the rules for one person's benefit. This thread is ridiculous


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Dec 3, 2011)

BlueDevil said:


> But then records could not compare to old ones. It would have to be a new event or something. The logistics of it require too much from the WCA. Just give it up and follow the current rules.
> 
> I ask people who approve of colored cubes for lookahead: do you support use of steroids in baseball? because it's a similar concept. Sure, everyone can use it, but is it really the right thing to have allowed?


 
The steroids is not a valid comparison as pointed out by someone else.

Also, by your logic, we should ban all but the cubes which were available from the first competition, as the newer ones are better and therefore invalidate the old records set when they weren't available. Normal stickered GuHongs have far better reverse cutting than Rubik's brand cubes, you think they should be banned too? And don't even think about reducing popping with torpedoes. I don't see that opinion becoming popular.

Whenever better hardware comes out which offers an improvement to speed without changing the nature of the puzzle, it should be freely usable in competitions IMO. It baffles me that a lot of people accept some advances and are against others, in a seemingly arbitrary fashion.


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## asportking (Dec 3, 2011)

MovingOnUp said:


> No one is going to change the rules for one person's benefit. This thread is ridiculous


I wouldn't really say that the thread is ridiculous. While Womack originally made this thread to change the rules about stickerless cubes, most of the thread is a debate about whether WCA should allow stickerless cubes in competitions, which is a legitimate topic.

As for my opinion, I don't think they should be allowed. Just like pillowed cubes, it gives too much of an advantage for lookahead.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

asportking said:


> I wouldn't really say that the thread is ridiculous. While Womack originally made this thread to change the rules about stickerless cubes, most of the thread is a debate about whether WCA should allow stickerless cubes in competitions, which is a legitimate topic.
> 
> As for my opinion, I don't think they should be allowed. Just like pillowed cubes, it gives too much of an advantage for lookahead.


 
I agree with you but when you said that pillowed cube aren't allowed thats saying that they should remove the 7x7 event.


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## cubersmith (Dec 3, 2011)

cuberkid10 said:


> It was a joke, Jesus.


 
Leave him alone.


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## asportking (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> I agree with you but when you said that pillowed cube aren't allowed thats saying that they should remove the 7x7 event.


7x7 is an exception, because the only 7x7s that are made are pillowed, and from what I understand, the 7x7 mechanism becomes sort of unstable when it's not pillowed.


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## Litz (Dec 3, 2011)

You seriously want to change the rules so you don't have to pay 15$ for a new cube and spend "like 10 hours" breaking it in?


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

asportking said:


> 7x7 is an exception, because the only 7x7s that are made are pillowed, and from what I understand, the 7x7 mechanism becomes sort of unstable when it's not pillowed.


 
but there are a few "Cubic" 7x7 in existance tony fishers and this one


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## asportking (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> but there are a few "Cubic" 7x7 in existance tony fishers and this one


Neither of those are mass-produced.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

asportking said:


> Neither of those are mass-produced.


 
but it could happen


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## cubersmith (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> but there are a few "Cubic" 7x7 in existance tony fishers and this one


 
Thats cool, just proves its not impossible


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## asportking (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> but it could happen


I believe someone said that if it did happen, then pillowed 7x7s wouldn't be allowed. But until then, they are allowed.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Dec 3, 2011)

asportking said:


> I believe someone said that if it did happen, then pillowed 7x7s wouldn't be allowed. But until then, they are allowed.


 
That was Ron.


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## cubernya (Dec 3, 2011)

And when it does, pillowed will be illegal. It's already been said by Ron

Edit: Ninja'd


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## Meep (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> but it could happen


 
They're also unstable from what I've heard, where V7s turn really well. Would imagine big cube solvers wouldn't be too happy if they were forced to downgrade due to the regulations. As for the colored cubes, some might not think it'd provide much of an advantage, but if you imagine someone starting out with one and purposely practiced to use it, it really doesn't take much for us to recognize and acknowledge colors (even just 0.1s glances). It's also not a hardware performance improvement, it's just like sticking colored flags on cubies that won't get in your fingers' ways. It's less like having spikes on shoes for grip and more like something that told you exactly where a ball would end up without putting the effort to watch where it's headed.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

Meep said:


> They're also unstable from what I've heard, where V7s turn really well. Would imagine big cube solvers wouldn't be too happy if they were forced to downgrade due to the regulations. As for the colored cubes, some might not think it'd provide much of an advantage, but if you imagine someone starting out with one and purposely practiced to use it, it really doesn't take much for us to recognize and acknowledge colors (even just 0.1s glances). It's also not a hardware performance improvement, it's just like sticking colored flags on cubies that won't get in your fingers' ways. It's less like having spikes on shoes for grip and more like something that told you exactly where a ball would end up without putting the effort to watch where it's headed.


 
*wow* that is one *GREAT* explanation on that and I think that sums up the hole thread in one post.


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## Rpotts (Dec 3, 2011)

So you submit to the reasoning behind the WCA's decision then? You admit that color cubes shouldn't be allowed?


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

Rpotts said:


> So you submit to the reasoning behind the WCA's decision then? You admit that color cubes shouldn't be allowed?


 
not really but meep gave a good reason why they should be allowed


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## Rpotts (Dec 3, 2011)

What else other than good reasons do you need? You can't expect us to say, "Oh well this kid doesn't want to buy a new cube, let's just change the regulations, that'll be easier."


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## cubernya (Dec 3, 2011)

Meep gave a reason why they shouldn't be allowed, not the other way around


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## Rpotts (Dec 3, 2011)

Lol I didn't even notice that the first time around ^^


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

Rpotts said:


> What else other than good reasons do you need? You can't expect us to say, "Oh well this kid doesn't want to buy a new cube, let's just change the regulations, that'll be easier."


 
not really heres something what if you have a color dayan cube and you practice on it and get sub 1 min on it but all the other 3x3s are crappy one and you get 1:30.xx on them so why cnt you still use that same cube at the comps?


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## Rpotts (Dec 3, 2011)

All the other 3x3s aren't crappy ones. Your argument is flawed.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

Rpotts said:


> All the other 3x3s aren't crappy ones. Your argument is flawed.


 
as crappy one I mean ones that lock up alot, no corner cutting or verry little, and not fingertrickable 3x3s


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## RNewms27 (Dec 3, 2011)

HINT: Do your research on competitions if you want to participate. Become aware of the rules. If you knew they were not allowed in competition then you probably would not have bought one in the first place and this thread would never have existed at this point in time. A stickered cube is just as good as a colored cube as far as performance.


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## Rpotts (Dec 3, 2011)

Right I know, and your argument was that you get faster times on your colored Dayan and all other cubes are crappy. This is not true. 

You cannot start an argument with a flawed premise and then accept the conclusions you draw from that premise as fact.


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## Phlippieskezer (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> as crappy one I mean ones that lock up alot, no corner cutting or verry little, and not fingertrickable 3x3s


 
Get any stickered Dayan. 

BAM. Amazing to decent 3x3x3, and competition legal.


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## insane569 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> as crappy one I mean ones that lock up alot, no corner cutting or verry little, and not fingertrickable 3x3s


 
"Its the cuber not the cube"
I can get sub 20 times using a store bought that is lubed and broken in for about 1 week
Just get a new cube because the rules arent gonna change.


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## Tim Major (Dec 3, 2011)

What will you do if you get 500 people voting no. Close your account?


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> What will you do if you get 500 people voting no. Close your account?


 
just deal with the fact that it might not happen


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## insane569 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> just deal with the fact that it might not happen


 
CAUSE ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN AT ALL


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## r_517 (Dec 3, 2011)

First I would say changing the rule just because you spent some money on it is really stupid. 
WCA rules are not simply decided by one or two delegates. Rules may be changed annually based on public's opinions. I honestly don't think the majority will agree with you in any aspect. 
Finally for the coloured cube, just like Ron had said in this thread, "We could allow these and similar puzzles in future WCA Regulations, but I would not vote for it." You can vote for yes, but as already shown in this thread, most people chose no.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

insane569 said:


> CAUSE ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN AT ALL


 
ya never know I blame Daqing Bao the creator of the Dayan cubes and making very good cube and a good stickerless version that's not comp legal.


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## ben1996123 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> ya never know I blame Daqing Bao the creator of the Dayan cubes and making very good cube and a good stickerless version that's not comp legal.



No, I blame you for being a dumbass and not accepting that you have to buy a new cube.


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## r_517 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> ya never know I blame Daqing Bao the creator of the Dayan cubes and making very good cube and a good stickerless version that's not comp legal.


 
His original intention for the coloured Guhong is for collection only, if you wish to know.


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## IMSLOW1097 (Dec 3, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> No, I blame you for being a dumbass and not accepting that you have to buy a new cube.


 
hey ben, that was absolutely RUDE. stop ripping on this kid and get on with your life!!!!


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

IMSLOW1097 said:


> hey ben, that was absolutely RUDE. stop ripping on this kid and get on with your life!!!!


 
he always says stuff like that in most of my threads and says stuff like that on my youtube videos


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## asportking (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> ya never know I blame Daqing Bao the creator of the Dayan cubes and making very good cube and a good stickerless version that's not comp legal.


Wait, so it's his fault because he made a cube that's not competition legal?


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

asportking said:


> Wait, so it's his fault because he made a cube that's not competition legal?


 
ya its ether by a stickers one or a colored one there both the same puzzle same paformance so why not use both of them


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## asportking (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> ya its ether by a stickers one or a colored one there both the same puzzle same paformance so why not use both of them


Exactly. They're both the same puzzle, same performance, so why not just stop complaining and get a stickered one?


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

asportking said:


> Exactly. They're both the same puzzle, same performance, so why not just stop complaining and get a stickered one?



I do have a stickerd lunhui and your not getting my point. My point is that the stickerd one is the same as the colored one no matter how you deal with the color of the plastic.


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## insane569 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> ya its ether by a stickers one or a colored one there both the same puzzle same paformance so why not use both of them


 
JUST BUY A STICKERED ONE
And i know that your poll wont even hit 500 votes 
And one more thing
STOP COMPLAINING


Michael Womack said:


> I do have a stickerd lunhui and your not getting my point. My point is that the stickerd one is the same as the colored one no matter how you deal with the color of the plastic.


 
If there the same then just use the stickered one
For crying out loud.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

insane569 said:


> JUST BUY A STICKERED ONE
> And i know that your poll wont even hit 500 votes
> And one more thing
> STOP COMPLAINING


 
i do have a stickerd lunhui so stop telling me to buy a new cube


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## zmikecuber (Dec 3, 2011)

Just say no to illegal cubes.


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## insane569 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> i do have a stickerd lunhui so stop telling me to buy a new cube


 
THEN USE THE STICKERED ONE IN COMPETITION


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

zmikecuber said:


> Just say no to illegal cubes.


 
so if that the roll then no one will buy the colored dayan cube and then no one will ever see them


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## asportking (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> My point is that the stickerd one is the same as the colored one no matter how you deal with the color of the plastic.


So you're saying that there's no difference between the stickered and the colored ones? I'm pretty sure the last 9 pages of this thread were all talking about how the two are different.


qqwref said:


> It looks like you don't understand why they don't allow those cubes.
> 
> The reason is that, when you turn one face by 45 degrees (half of a normal quarter turn), you can see the colors of some stickers you shouldn't be able to see. For example, if you turn the top face by 45 degrees, you can see the BR and BL stickers. The WCA has decided that this is an unfair advantage for lookahead, and so these cubes aren't allowed.


And that's how they're different.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

insane569 said:


> THEN USE THE STICKERED ONE IN COMPETITION


 
I do but i will use it untill the Dayan color cube be accepted


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## insane569 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> I do but i will use it untill the Dayan color cube be accepted


 
Its not gonna be accepted.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

insane569 said:


> Its not gonna be accepted.


 
You never know maybe if theres a video of feliks using a colored zhanchi and geting a sub 5 sec solve thin thy might


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## vcuber13 (Dec 3, 2011)

just scramble your coloured dayan then sticker it, problem solved


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## Phlippieskezer (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> You never know maybe if theres a video of feliks using a colored zhanchi and geting a sub 5 sec solve thin thy might


 
That wouldn't change anything. In fact, that could make it worse (slight empirical evidence of why it's illegal).

As qq said, it's not accepted because of how you can see the colours on the other side when the cube is turned 45 degrees, not because it's "better" than any other (which it truly isn't).


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## asportking (Dec 3, 2011)

vcuber13 said:


> just scramble your coloured dayan then sticker it, problem solved


You'd have to paint all the pieces black too, including the sides of them.


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## emolover (Dec 3, 2011)

What the hell. Why do these dumbass threads get 100 posts in three hours?

Even more important question is why are people still trying to argue something he will never accept.


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## vcuber13 (Dec 3, 2011)

asportking said:


> You'd have to paint all the pieces black too, including the sides of them.


 clearly you missed my point


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## Michael Womack (Dec 3, 2011)

vcuber13 said:


> just scramble your coloured dayan then sticker it, problem solved


 
thats like mixing a black and a white f2 and trying to use it they still won't let you use it also your solution makes it so that thers 2 solutions solve it by stickers and the other is by color of plastic


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## insane569 (Dec 3, 2011)

emolover said:


> What the hell. Why do these dumbass threads get 100 posts in three hours?
> 
> Even more important question is why are people still trying to argue something he will never accept.


 
Its cause womack doesnt know what a double post is.
So he double post like crazy.
Seriously womack just multi quote.


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## RNewms27 (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> You never know maybe if theres a video of feliks using a colored zhanchi and geting a sub 5 sec solve thin thy might


 
A fast solve by some kid won't bring their attention. Felik's did a solve on the pillowed 3x3, but it is not allowed. That statement you made is absolute nonsense. Although there may be some reasons to allow colored cubes, there is one major reason that it is not. That is all they require to restrict it.


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## vcuber13 (Dec 3, 2011)

im pretty sure they will, and then swap 2 peices


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## Jaycee (Dec 3, 2011)

Seriously Michael, I've attempted to be reasonable with you before but this thread is just stupid. :/


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## Micael (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael, I think I got an option for you. These cubes are allowed for Multiple Blindfolded and may be for 3x3x3BLD too (not sure about the later). So here is the deal: learn to do multi and use officially your incredibly good cube. Otherwise I believe you that your cube is awesome and I am willing to exchange it for like 2 or 3 brand new cubes of the same kind. This is serious.

If you are interrested, just PM me, I will not discuss it anymore in this thread. Thanks.


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## ernie722 (Dec 3, 2011)

just forget about the whole thing...the stickerless puzzles will probably not be accepted so just leave it there...just save up, get a sticker 3x3 that u want, break it in, problem solved


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## Petezorzz (Dec 3, 2011)

Why is the guy still on here?
Seriously Michael, you should think about what you're posting before you're posting.
Just because 500 people think that they should allow a Dayan coloured cube, it doesn't mean that WCA will allow them.

Extremely stupid post.


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## IamWEB (Dec 3, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> so if that the roll then no one will buy the colored dayan cube and then no one will ever see them


 
Not only is that irrelevant to this debate, but it's also untrue. Why?



r_517 said:


> His original intention for the coloured Guhong is for collection only, if you wish to know.



^That's why.




Michael Womack said:


> You never know maybe if theres a video of feliks using a colored zhanchi and geting a sub 5 sec solve thin thy might



This wouldn't help at all. In fact, it would show that there's an advantage to be gained by using it. That would only justify the reason why it's already banned.



vcuber13 said:


> just scramble your coloured dayan then sticker it, problem solved


 
And it seems to me that what vcuber13 is saying here is this: If you put stickers on the Stickerless DaYan and try to solve it, you will likely have look-ahead trouble because of the plastic coloring. That proves that the visible plastic on the sides of the stickers makes a difference, and therefore the Stickerless DaYan is not the same as a regular DaYan cube.

Some people were saying that the cubes were the same, so he should just buy a stickered one and get over it. He said you were missing the point, and he's right. If they are the same, then why is stickerless one banned? However, they aren't same for the several reasons already listed in this thread (the paragraph above, qq's posts, and a bunch of other posts here...)

The stickerless cube is banned for a reason. Please understand what the reason is.
Sucks that you spent time and money on a banned cube, but you're going to have to use one with stickers.


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## Mikel (Dec 3, 2011)

UnAbusador said:


> We are talking about hardware here, not performance enhancing drugs. The fairness lies in that anyone can use the hardware they wish to. Also using baseball as an analogy, it would be like banning spikes on the shoes because they provide more grip (when they first came out).



Strictly talking about hardware, I think you can make the analogy that using a colored cube could be like corking a bat in baseball. Both hardware, both illegal.


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## tx789 (Dec 3, 2011)

WCA will never allow dayan stickeress cube for 3x3 speed and even if 500 people say yes show many will say no


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## Itchy Cacti (Dec 3, 2011)

Micael said:


> ...These cubes are allowed for Multiple Blindfolded and may be for 3x3x3BLD too (not sure about the later). So here is the deal: learn to do multi and use officially your incredibly good cube...


 
Article B: Blindfolded Solving
•B1d) Solving phase must be done on a puzzle with tiles, stickers or paint, without different textures or markings.

Wouldn't it speed up memo?


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## Olji (Dec 3, 2011)

Itchy Cacti said:


> Wouldn't it speed up memo?


 
What I know you're not allowed to turn under memo, how would a stickerless Dayan speed it up?


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## Evan Liu (Dec 3, 2011)

Itchy Cacti said:


> Article B: Blindfolded Solving
> •B1d) Solving phase must be done on a puzzle with tiles, stickers or paint, without different textures or markings.
> 
> Wouldn't it speed up memo?


http://worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=924
Ron himself said these cubes are ok for blind events. (See last post)


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## cubernya (Dec 3, 2011)

Itchy Cacti said:


> Article B: Blindfolded Solving
> •B1d) Solving phase must be done on a puzzle with tiles, stickers or paint, without different textures or markings.
> 
> Wouldn't it speed up memo?


 
No, Ron specifically said pillowed and colored cubes can be used in competitions.

Edit: ninja'd again


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## Eleredo (Dec 3, 2011)

I voted yes, but unfortunately it will never happen.
Not even if this has 5000 votes.


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## Itchy Cacti (Dec 3, 2011)

Olji said:


> What I know you're not allowed to turn under memo, how would a stickerless Dayan speed it up?


 
Whoops I was thinking pillowed.


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## Micael (Dec 3, 2011)

Itchy Cacti said:


> Article B: Blindfolded Solving
> •B1d) Solving phase must be done on a puzzle with tiles, stickers or paint, without different textures or markings.
> 
> Wouldn't it speed up memo?



Maybe for these 8-9sec memo guys, only them could tell. As soon as the bottle neck is the organisation and storage of information in our head, I cannot see how it can help. So I think it is fine for multi, as WCA currently tolerate. For single bld I don't know what is the politic, I would like to know.

Edit: ninja'd, it is allowed for single bld, thanks.


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## Owen (Dec 4, 2011)

You should start your own cube association, with your own rules.

Call it the Michael Womak cube association. I'd totally go to the competitions.


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## Mal (Dec 4, 2011)

What's wrong with normal cubes?


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## convinsa (Dec 4, 2011)

Using the color cube is not fair. Some people can actually average a ton better on those cubes than normal cubes. Something like they can see the colors in the back or some ****


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