# Yongjun has completed the design for 13*13*13 cube pattern?



## r_517 (Oct 13, 2009)

I just translated the following articles from the spokesman of Yongjun from mf8(The biggest cubing forum in China Mainland). I have no relation with them anyway.

________________________________________________

We have completed the design for the pattern of 13*13*13 cube. We believe that this is the most difficult and has the most precision among all the cubing products. According to the computer's calculating result, we have the ability and facilities to make it. We believe it will be a legand that may not be broken in many years. We will make the pattern between Oct. and Nov., and it will be in volume production in June, 2010.

......

Our first products are indeed knockoffs. We are trying hard to get rid of it by making lots of new independently developed products.

......


----------



## 4Chan (Oct 13, 2009)

Fjfdklsajfs.

Wow, Im not sure to be impressed or irate?

*clap clap*


----------



## Muesli (Oct 13, 2009)

I don't see the point in any cube larger than 7x7x7. The challenge has reached it's apex and it's only elitists and collectors that will buy it. I predict that the 13*13*13 cube will only take longer to solve than the 7x7x7, and throw up no new complications.


----------



## Lux Aeterna (Oct 13, 2009)

Musli4brekkies said:


> I don't see the point in any cube larger than 7x7x7. The challenge has reached it's apex and it's only elitists and collectors that will buy it. I predict that the 13*13*13 cube will only take longer to solve than the 7x7x7, and throw up no new complications.



Well, unless I'm missing something, if you can solve a 4x4 and a 5x5 (i.e. you can solve a 3x3 and you know the 4x4 and 5x5 parity algorithms), you can solve any cube whatsoever, just with the regular reduction method, and easy commutators for the centers. The challenge with bigger cubes is not finding new methods to solve it, it's how long it takes you to recognize whatever pattern you're looking for at any given step.


----------



## IamWEB (Oct 13, 2009)

While that's true [above poster], where were the V6 and V7 made?
After the 4 and the 5, wouldn't things just repeat in terms of the new challenges? I haven't solved beyond a 4 so if I'm wrong let me know, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Still the V6 and V7 become very popular, and I see the same thing happening again with Verdes releases the V8 and V9.

EDIT: Responding the 2 posts above.


----------



## Feanaro (Oct 13, 2009)

I think anything past a 10x10 is just rediculous. I personally won't get anything higher than that, not only because they will most likely be really expensive, but also because they would take so long to solve.


----------



## Dirk BerGuRK (Oct 13, 2009)

I would certainly love to have a cube that large, but I am skeptical of the quality if a design was actually created. It sounds like a lot of pieces and a lot of chances for one to break. I doubt it would be well suited for speedcubing. Also a cube that large would seem mighty expensive. I would like to see some reviews before I bought one.


----------



## waffle=ijm (Oct 13, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> Fjfdklsajfs.



almost what I said after reading this. but it was more like a "Faiwhrnffjkfs"

anyway all I can say is WOW.


----------



## Muesli (Oct 13, 2009)

Lux Aeterna said:


> Musli4brekkies said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see the point in any cube larger than 7x7x7. The challenge has reached it's apex and it's only elitists and collectors that will buy it. I predict that the 13*13*13 cube will only take longer to solve than the 7x7x7, and throw up no new complications.
> ...



Exactly. It's going to be a test of endurance, not problem solving.

TPIS: The 13*13*13 will be a very boring puzzle.


----------



## blah (Oct 13, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> Fjfdklsajfs.


QWERTY sucks.


----------



## qqwref (Oct 13, 2009)

It is cool to see that they are planning on producing a puzzle that nobody else has planned, although I wonder if they are still using the V-mech for it (which could arguably still count as intellectual property infringement).

I am one of the people who would buy a 13x13 for solving, incidentally. Probably wouldn't solve it very much (except at the beginning hehe) but it would be cool to own one.


----------



## r_517 (Oct 14, 2009)

qqwref said:


> It is cool to see that they are planning on producing a puzzle that nobody else has planned, although I wonder if they are still using the V-mech for it (which could arguably still count as intellectual property infringement).
> 
> I am one of the people who would buy a 13x13 for solving, incidentally. Probably wouldn't solve it very much (except at the beginning hehe) but it would be cool to own one.



Verdes didn't have a design for 13*13 however none of us has ever seen the design or the pattern, but i'm looking forwarding to it. Hope i can get one for free. They sometimes send new products for free randomly to the cubers on bbs.mf8.com.cn Some people said that their KO 9*9 will be sold at about €50, so i think maybe 13*13 will be €100?


----------



## LNZ (Oct 14, 2009)

Verdes only has patents up to 11x11x11. So a 13x13x13 is not a knockoff puzzle. 

But I would be turned off at the cost and the time taken to solve it. I'm not the fastest cuber in the world (but faster than 99% + worldwide though) and given my PB for a V7 of 28:30, a 13x13x13 would take me hours to solve. I would get bored long before finishing it. My limit without getting bored would be a 9x9x9 at the highest.


----------



## Heaartful (Oct 14, 2009)

wow, youll need a whole day to solve a 13x13x13


----------



## Me Myself & Pi (Oct 14, 2009)

A 13x13?! Come on! You know, there is a reason why the V-Cube company only plans to go up to an 11x11. Even if this Verdes did make a 13x13, the quality would probably be as bad as the Gigaminx. & if a knock off company makes it, ewww, it just makes me cringe!

Oh & by the way, I'm pretty sure that just because the original inventor didn't patent his puzzle, doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a knock off. I knock off is a puzzle that is made without the inventors consent. Remember the knock offs of Tony Fishers cubes? He hasn't panted them, but they're still knock offs.


----------



## elcarc (Oct 14, 2009)

Me Myself & Pi said:


> A 13x13?! I knock off is a puzzle that is made without the inventors consent.



but then you could call any 3x3 thats not rubik's a knock off of the original


----------



## JTW2007 (Oct 14, 2009)

LNZ said:


> Verdes only has patents up to 11x11x11. So a 13x13x13 is not a knockoff puzzle.



It's not like they would have to invent anything new though to make a 13x13x13, providing they just take the design from the Verdes patents. You can't expect Verdes to patent every variant of his design. I would say that it's a knockoff as long as it uses the same design of the V-cubes, even if Verdes never intended to produce this specific model.



elcarc said:


> but then you could call any 3x3 thats not rubik's a knock off of the original



Yes, you could.


----------



## luke1984 (Oct 14, 2009)

elcarc said:


> Me Myself & Pi said:
> 
> 
> > A 13x13?! I knock off is a puzzle that is made without the inventors consent.
> ...



Then practically everything you own is a knock-off...


----------



## Mike Hughey (Oct 14, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> LNZ said:
> 
> 
> > Verdes only has patents up to 11x11x11. So a 13x13x13 is not a knockoff puzzle.
> ...



The patent explicitly explains that the design only works through 11x11x11. After that, there are rumors that Verdes had solutions for how to build up to 17x17x17, but that's not included in the patent. So in theory, they couldn't have just taken the design from the Verdes patents - the design in the patents can't be used past 11x11x11.

Also, I think it's interesting to note that Verdes claimed in the patent that the larger sizes might not work very well with plastic:


> It is suggested that the construction material for the solid parts can be mainly plastic of good quality, while for N=10 and N=11 it could be replaced by aluminum.



So I wonder if a plastic 13x13x13 will really even work? If not, I'm guessing it might be even more expensive, and I also wonder if an aluminum cube could ever move very fast.

Still, I have to admit that if a 13x13x13 ever came out, I would want very much to own one, and I would probably be willing to pay pretty much to have it. I'd want to try to BLD it, even if that took all day. (Quick calculation [I hope I did it right] gave 866 pieces, which would be approximately equivalent to 4 7x7x7s! I'd guess that would take 8 or 9 hours on the first attempt.)


----------



## JTW2007 (Oct 14, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> The patent explicitly explains that the design only works through 11x11x11. After that, there are rumors that Verdes had solutions for how to build up to 17x17x17, but that's not included in the patent.



Interesting.



Mike Hughey said:


> Also, I think it's interesting to note that Verdes claimed in the patent that the larger sizes might not work very well with plastic:
> 
> 
> > It is suggested that the construction material for the solid parts can be mainly plastic of good quality, while for N=10 and N=11 it could be replaced by aluminum.



Interestinger.



Mike Hughey said:


> Still, I have to admit that if a 13x13x13 ever came out, I would want very much to own one, and I would probably be willing to pay pretty much to have it. I'd want to try to BLD it, even if that took all day. (Quick calculation [I hope I did it right] gave 866 pieces, which would be approximately equivalent to 4 7x7x7s! I'd guess that would take 8 or 9 hours on the first attempt.)



Even more interestinger.

Where did you hear that he had a new design for up to 17x17x17?


----------



## Lucas (Oct 14, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> Still, I have to admit that if a 13x13x13 ever came out, I would want very much to own one, and I would probably be willing to pay pretty much to have it. I'd want to try to BLD it, even if that took all day. (Quick calculation [I hope I did it right] gave 866 pieces, which would be approximately equivalent to 4 7x7x7s! I'd guess that would take 8 or 9 hours on the first attempt.)



Lol, with 30 kinds of centers, 6 of edges and 1 of corners, that would be really difficult. But still it may be a problem to turn the correct inner layer, with 13 layers.


----------



## elcarc (Oct 14, 2009)

Lucas said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > Still, I have to admit that if a 13x13x13 ever came out, I would want very much to own one, and I would probably be willing to pay pretty much to have it. I'd want to try to BLD it, even if that took all day. (Quick calculation [I hope I did it right] gave 866 pieces, which would be approximately equivalent to 4 7x7x7s! I'd guess that would take 8 or 9 hours on the first attempt.)
> ...



if it pops, its gone forever


----------



## Mike Hughey (Oct 14, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> Where did you hear that he had a new design for up to 17x17x17?



Unfortunately, I don't remember. It seems like it was on twistypuzzles somewhere, but I could be wrong about that. I recall that it was expressed as just an idea he had for how to overcome the problem, not an actual full-fledged design.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Oct 14, 2009)

> Where did you hear that he had a new design for up to 17x17x17?



Sorry for the double post, but I found it. I guess it was better than just a rumor. From here:



> I then asked him about making a 12x12x12, and he admitted that there is a theory to overcome
> the 2:1 ratio issue, but it is only a theory. And he surely knows the deep struggle from theory
> to practice. For those who do not know the 2:1 ratio issue, it is all about the outer edge center piece.
> Its length must be bigger than its width, but once the ratio between them outgrows the 2:1 "limit"
> ...



That whole post is a great read, for anyone who has never read it.


----------



## r_517 (Oct 15, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> Still, I have to admit that if a 13x13x13 ever came out, I would want very much to own one, and I would probably be willing to pay pretty much to have it. I'd want to try to BLD it, even if that took all day. (Quick calculation [I hope I did it right] gave 866 pieces, which would be approximately equivalent to 4 7x7x7s! I'd guess that would take 8 or 9 hours on the first attempt.)



i'm looking forward to your performance. maybe i can try to contact them and let them send you one  (i just mean "maybe")


----------



## qqwref (Oct 15, 2009)

If they send me one I will try to do an OH solve


----------



## peedu (Oct 15, 2009)

my first try would be under water with gloves and swimming goggles on.


----------



## Lord Voldemort (Oct 16, 2009)

IamWEB said:


> While that's true [above poster], where were the V6 and V7 made?
> After the 4 and the 5, wouldn't things just repeat in terms of the new challenges? I haven't solved beyond a 4 so if I'm wrong let me know, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
> Still the V6 and V7 become very popular, and I see the same thing happening again with Verdes releases the V8 and V9.
> 
> EDIT: Responding the 2 posts above.



That's because while being $60+ with shipping, the V6 and V7 were still affordable for the more avid puzzlers. I have one, and I do love it. But a 13x13 probably costs a lot more, and less people will be able to buy it, since most cubers are teens and don't make their own money.


----------



## tacgnol (Jul 28, 2010)

luke1984 said:


> elcarc said:
> 
> 
> > Me Myself & Pi said:
> ...



Potentially EVERYTHING could be a knock off.


----------



## TK 421 (Jul 28, 2010)

Youg Jun= Sucks try the 9x9x9, it pops every 4 times i do R U Ri Ui


----------



## JeffDelucia (Jul 28, 2010)

TK 421 said:


> Youg Jun= Sucks try the 9x9x9, it pops every 4 times i do R U Ri Ui



but the 11x11 is good


----------



## Inf3rn0 (Jul 28, 2010)

Glad this was bumped it lead me to read the twistypuzzles post Mr Hughey linked.
It was a very interesting enjoyable read, Thanks


----------



## koreancuber (Jul 28, 2010)

Inf3rn0 said:


> Glad this was bumped it lead me to read the twistypuzzles post Mr Hughey linked.
> It was a very interesting enjoyable read, Thanks



same here!


----------



## PatrickJameson (Jul 28, 2010)

JeffDelucia said:


> TK 421 said:
> 
> 
> > Youg Jun= Sucks try the 9x9x9, it pops every 4 times i do R U Ri Ui
> ...



Amazing really, considering how bad the 9x9 is.


----------



## joey (Jul 28, 2010)

They should just make the 9x9 awesome


----------



## r_517 (Jul 28, 2010)

joey said:


> They should just make the 9x9 awesome



according to a big wholesaler, most individual sellrs in China who sell 9x9 had deficits coz it's way too expensive


----------



## Nestor (Jul 31, 2010)

koreancuber said:


> Inf3rn0 said:
> 
> 
> > Glad this was bumped it lead me to read the twistypuzzles post Mr Hughey linked.
> ...


+1


----------



## Mike Hughey (Jul 31, 2010)

PatrickJameson said:


> JeffDelucia said:
> 
> 
> > TK 421 said:
> ...



The story I heard is that the 9x9x9 is terrible because they tried to improve Verdes' design. The 11x11x11, on the other hand, is a direct copy of the patent - they didn't make any "improvements". Therefore, it's awesome.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is the story I heard.


----------



## Owen (Jul 31, 2010)

Just to clarify, the 9x9 and 11x11 are made by different companies.


----------

