# What is this forum meant to be for?- I've just had ENOUGH of the rude, discouraging..



## CubeX (Mar 25, 2011)

I have just had enough of the nonsense, rudeness, and put downs people make of others.

When i first joined the forum in 2008, i did not post anything as such, because i was afraid that my ideas or even questions about the Rubik's Cube would be laughed at, not giving any feedback/comments. 

And when i did post threads on such as New Method: F3L, i actually was TRYING to contribute to the cubing world, and express my ideas out.

And what do i get?

When i said even though i am quiting cubing for 2 years, Dene Bea....sly said (similar):

Dene: "The two years of peace i have been waiting for"

Well, my comment to you is back off, leave me alone. The reason i joined the Australian WCA Competitions was to have fun, i don't really care about the times anyway. And you suddenly think that i am there just to waste your time because i can't reach the cut-off limit. Oh, so what you are saying is that only if you can reach the cut off limit, then you can participate in those events. And so much more i could see your UNKINDNESS.

And even to other users:

"Lets spam this thread so it gets closed"
and about the "trolling" buisness.

etc..

I have seriously had enough with this.

I thought that this forum was meant to be for meeting new people, socializing, communicating/discussions, have fun, share ideas etc. BEING HAPPY!

So i leave you with this question?

Why is there a forum like SpeedSolving.com?

Is it for users like you guys to put people down, and only allow the fastest cubers in?


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## qqwref (Mar 25, 2011)

CubeX said:


> And when i did post threads on such as New Method: F3L, i actually was TRYING to contribute to the cubing world, and express my ideas out.


"I will finish this unrealistic method in 3 years" is not a useful contribution. The attitude is all wrong; if you want to discuss a method idea we're happy to do that, but you can't go in with a ridiculous idea and act like people will wait YEARS for you to finish thinking about it.



CubeX said:


> Oh, so what you are saying is that only if you can reach the cut off limit, then you can participate in those events.


Yes, that is exactly how the cut-off is supposed to work. People who have put in the time and effort to get fast enough are allowed to do their solves. If you're slower, the whole point is that you're not supposed to use up too much time, since a competition only has so much of it.



CubeX said:


> I thought that this forum was meant to be for meeting new people, socializing, communicating/discussions, have fun, share ideas etc. BEING HAPPY!


Discussing and sharing ideas? Sure. But "have fun" and "being happy" are not the points of the forum. If they were, we'd spend all day sharing funny youtube videos and so on.


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## Zane_C (Mar 25, 2011)

I find your comments more aggressive than the ones posted by the "users".


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## Tim Major (Mar 25, 2011)

Let me ask you, a question.
What is the point of life?
Meeting new people, socializing, communicating, discussion?
This happens, just like the forums. But the forums have rules, to keep the super anti-social things away.
So does life!
But do you see these things always kept to how it's meant to be? No. But people put up with it. If you whinge and complain it happens more. Suck it up, and avoid doing things that'll prevoke others.
And I hope to see you at Kubaroo Open. In regards to cutoffs, they're as lenient as we can make them. They vary. But if the fast 2x2ers take less than a minute to do their averages, why would you be allowed 10 minutes to do yours? (Not directed at you)
People are given a roughly even amount of time.
If you can't make cutoffs, practise until you can. But it's either have 1 event with no cutoff, or 5 events with cutoffs. Choose your favourite events, and practice those, to make the cutoff.

Edit: posted on phone, excuse mistakes.


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## Meisen (Mar 25, 2011)

I have to agree with OP. Especially 3 relatively rude people pops into mind; kirjava, dene and stefan. Ofcourse they also contribute with helpfull and positive things. I've grown tired of the smirk comments often originating from some users. Some people on this forum just communicate in a way that can make others feel "less".


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## EnterPseudonym (Mar 25, 2011)

Meisen said:


> I have to agree with OP. Especially 3 relatively rude people pops into mind; kirjava, dene and stefan. Ofcourse they also contribute with helpfull and positive things. I've grown tired of the smirk comments often originating from some users. Some people on this forum just communicate in a way that can make others feel "less".


 
those three do stand out, but I think that it's more of their "followers"(actually it seems that since their(kir, sefan, etc.) flaming is alright [since they contribute to the comm.] that it is okay for the other lesser know people to do it. It also seems that since they aren't very well known inside the comm. that they feel the need to make themselves stand out, whether by postwhoring or just being asshats.) that do the insulting, such as Zane and Tim. I could go on with the list if I wanted, and I'm sure many of them will post flaming comments as well.


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## Zane_C (Mar 25, 2011)

EnterPseudonym said:


> those three do stand out, but I think that it's more of their "followers"(actually it seems that since their(kir, sefan, etc.) flaming is alright [since they contribute to the comm.] that it is okay for the other lesser know people to do it. It also seems that since they aren't very well known inside the comm. that they feel the need to make themselves stand out, whether by postwhoring or just being asshats.) that do the insulting, such as Zane and Tim. I could go on with the list if I wanted, and I'm sure many of them will post flaming comments as well.



How was I insulting? Please justify.


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## Andreaillest (Mar 25, 2011)

Uh, calm down brah. A couple of small rude posts is nothing to get worked over for. Just move on. Yes, Kir, Dene, and Stefan do insult people, but they do it when they find something utterly idiotic. They have contributed to the Speedcubing community more than you know and can be really helpful when they want to be. 

In closing, calm down. You're not seriously being cyberbullied. People who flame are either;
A) Twats.
B) See something truly moronic.

Have a nice day.


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## Meisen (Mar 25, 2011)

Andreaillest said:


> Uh, calm down brah. A couple of small rude posts is nothing to get worked over for. Just move on. Yes, Kir, Dene, and Stefan do insult people, but they do it when they find something utterly idiotic. They have contributed to the Speedcubing community more than you know and can be really helpful when they want to be.
> 
> In closing, calm down. You're not seriously being cyberbullied. People who flame are either;
> A) Twats.
> ...


I wholehartedly disagree with you insinuating rudness is OK because they also contribute!

Look at Chris Hardwick or Conrad Rider. Very helpful people, and always plesant and polite about it.

A lot would be better if people would just think a little bit before they post: "Will my post contribute in a positive way"? If yes, post away, if no, just let it be...


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## Andreaillest (Mar 25, 2011)

Meisen said:


> I wholehartedly disagree with you insinuating rudness is OK because they also contribute!



You misread my post. Not once did I say being "rude" was okay or contributed positively. Re-read it and understand it, please.


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## Zane_C (Mar 25, 2011)

EnterPseudonym said:


> those three do stand out, but I think that it's more of their "followers"(actually it seems that since their(kir, sefan, etc.) flaming is alright [since they contribute to the comm.] that it is okay for the other lesser know people to do it. It also seems that since they aren't very well known inside the comm. that they feel the need to make themselves stand out, whether by postwhoring or just being asshats.) that do the insulting, such as Zane and Tim. I could go on with the list if I wanted, and I'm sure many of them will post flaming comments as well.


 
I'm not amused by your comment at all.

So I'm an insulting follower, simply because I posted this and this?


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## Meisen (Mar 25, 2011)

Andreaillest said:


> You misread my post. Not once did I say being "rude" was okay or contributed positively. Re-read it and understand it, please.


I think we will have to agree to disagree. You basically condoned rudness by adding the comment about him having no idea how much they have contributed. And you also stated that they were only rude when they found something "utterly idiotic", and that is just not the case! Please don't contend my statement, i'm in no mood to rifle trough threads to dig up proof :/

And even if that was the case, that they find something idiotic, it STILL does not give them the right to be inpolite. There are people ranging from beginner to expert here, and what an expert might find idiotic an beginner might find curious and/or intriguing. It does not mean the beginner is an idiot, just inexperienced.

And that does not warrant ridicule, at least not in my opinion...

*Edit*: It might not have been the comment about their contribution that made me feel that you felt they were entiteled to rudeness, but more that you stated that they only did it when they found people idiotic. Isn't that condoning?


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## Cubenovice (Mar 25, 2011)

CubeX said:


> And when i did post threads on such as New Method: F3L, i actually was TRYING to contribute to the cubing world, and express my ideas out.
> And what do i get?


I agree some members can be (too) rude sometimes. 

But regarding your F3L post:
In all honesty: If you have been on the forum for three years you know what you can expect when you post “a new method” without having worked out any details. Read back your post and think how this could NOT be interpreted as a possible trolling attempt?



CubeX said:


> The reason i joined the Australian WCA Competitions was to have fun, i don't really care about the times anyway. And you suddenly think that i am there just to waste your time because i can't reach the cut-off limit. Oh, so what you are saying is that only if you can reach the cut off limit, then you can participate in those events. And so much more i could see your UNKINDNESS.



I think the cut off limits are quite fair… Many competitions have a 3 minute time limit for the 3x3x3!
In which other competitive sport would you find a time limit which is *more than 18 times that of the top 100 competitors?*And even if you do not meet the cut off limit, you are typically allowed to finish your solve so you can actually set an official result.
OK, you don’t get a second solve but you have to realize that organizers have a schedule to stick to.



CubeX said:


> And even to other users:
> "Lets spam this thread so it gets closed"
> and about the "trolling" buisness.
> etc..
> ...


Fair enough. Could do without these posts.



CubeX said:


> I thought that this forum was meant to be for meeting new people, socializing, communicating/discussions, have fun, share ideas etc. BEING HAPPY!
> So i leave you with this question?
> 
> Why is there a forum like SpeedSolving.com?
> Is it for users like you guys to put people down, and only allow the fastest cubers in?


No, it is meant for meeting new people, socializing, communicating/discussions, have fun, share ideas etc.
Never, ever, have I seen a comment about someone being too slow to be allowed on Speedsolving.com. 
Have you?

But I do have seen tons of supportive posts trying to help “slow” cubers improve.


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## Tim Major (Mar 25, 2011)

EnterPseudonym said:


> those three do stand out, but I think that it's more of their "followers"(actually it seems that since their(kir, sefan, etc.) flaming is alright [since they contribute to the comm.] that it is okay for the other lesser know people to do it. It also seems that since they aren't very well known inside the comm. that they feel the need to make themselves stand out, whether by postwhoring or just being asshats.) that do the insulting, such as Zane and Tim. I could go on with the list if I wanted, and I'm sure many of them will post flaming comments as well.


I showed this to Zane as soon as you posted, but had indoor soccer so I couldn't defend myself. Please point out any posts I've done to insult Timothy in this thread. I feel you used me and Zane as "examples" as we were the previous posts, but I see no flaming, just advice or pointing out of facts from us.
I'm not saying I've never flamed anyone, but I try not to. I can recall me flaming/trolling a few months ago and I got temp banned so I learnt from it.
And contributing to the community does not authorise you to flame others.


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## Magix (Mar 25, 2011)

OP is just raging because his "let's make a new 3x3 method that you have to learn algorithms for 20 years for" thread got shut down.

That's all there is to it, moving on.


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## Kirjava (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm appalled at the level of entitlement you feel like you have.

You post a topic that is essentially spam - even if the method is not complete vapourware (which it is), there is no content whatsoever. There was no reason to make that post. What did you expect people to say?

I don't know how you can say you're leaving the forum for three years and then start complaining that it doesn't have the right atmosphere you require. If you're going to leave, just leave and you can stop worrying about us.

You're complaining about people mocking your ideas in the thread, yet you failed to actually post any ideas.

Go away.


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## Andreaillest (Mar 25, 2011)

Meisen said:


> I think we will have to agree to disagree. You basically condoned rudness by adding the comment about him having no idea how much they have contributed. And you also stated that they were only rude when they found something "utterly idiotic", and that is just not the case! Please don't contend my statement, i'm in no mood to rifle trough threads to dig up proof :/



No I did not. Kir, Dene, and Stefan have been making "rude" responses in and out of the forums since...well forever. We've just gotten used to it by now and they really aren't serious. Do I agree with it...eh, it depends and honestly, I don't care. It's just something they do. Yes, they can get out of hand, but for most of the part, their comments aren't worth getting your panties all worked up for. Not theirs or anybody else's for that matter are worth getting mad over. And if you've met them in real life, they're actually really nice guys. Not mean at all and considered very helpful.



> And even if that was the case, that they find something idiotic, it STILL does not give them the right to be inpolite. There are people ranging from beginner to expert here, and what an expert might find idiotic an beginner might find curious and/or intriguing. It does not mean the beginner is an idiot, just inexperienced.


Again, I never said being a beginner condones rude responses. They just need guidance. I do agree that people make comments that are uncalled for. But they're just doing it for to "look cool" or "fit in." They don't realize that they looking more like an ass than they do cool. And yes some of us do call them out on their rude posts. That or no one gives them the attention they want, they don't deserve it. Even trolls don't deserve an ounce of our time.



> And that does not warrant ridicule, at least not in my opinion...


Agreed, beginners who are asking for serious help do not need ridicule, they need guidance. But then there are those just asking for it...
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...3x3x3-Method-REALLY-FAST!&p=331778#post331778
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?25980-WTF-L-moves&p=497144&viewfull=1#post497144



> *Edit*: It might not have been the comment about their contribution that made me feel that you felt they were entiteled to rudeness, but more that you stated that they only did it when they found people idiotic. Isn't that condoning?



Well, if I'm condoning them then so do a bunch of other people. not many people heckle them for this and they've never been permabanned. *shrug* Does this give them the rights to flame? No, not really, but they're hardly ever serious or crude. 
Again, a couple of rude comments here and there are not worth raging over, as most of them aren't serious and others are just being an ass. This was the point in my first post. Just move on and if it gets out of hand, let the mods take care of it. OP is just mad because people didn't like his idea.

I should be working on my final...uh. Moving on.


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## Innocence (Mar 25, 2011)

@Zane and Tim: Just leave it. Seriously, we're not going to think you're mean just because some random says you are.

I do agree that certain respected members do get away with a little too much negativity and pointless remarks, but never have I found this forum to have a hopelessly negative atmosphere. It would probably be better if we could all constructively criticize people though.

@Kirjava: +1. By the way, this is a "good" post. Nice and happy, but mean at the same time.


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## E3cubestore (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm pretty new here myself, and even though I have not had the unfortunate circumstance of being the brunt of ridicule, I've seen it occurring on this forum significantly.
From my observance, I think it happens for 2 reasons.
1. Someone posts a topic that is obviously worthless and makes themselves look like a noob.
2. Someone posts a topic that has potential, but presents it in an unproffesional manner.

But, for the people who get ridiculed, getting angry seems to only make the people making fun of you more justified because you are acting immature because you were ridiculed. 

So I think it's best to go on with life, because nobody is obligated to be nice to you.

I'm not saying people should be mean though


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## StachuK1992 (Mar 25, 2011)

As far as I can see, people told you off because your idea had no content.
This is justified to some extent, as it was a waste of a thread (and not even a humorous one!); the vagueness of this idea is pretty extreme.

As for the "hating" or "rudeness:" although it's not appropriate, being here for three years should have taught you that this would have been the general reaction.
This doesn't justify the rudeness, but an embrace for it would have been appropriate.

-Statue


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## ElectricDoodie (Mar 25, 2011)

CubeX said:


> I thought that this forum was meant to be for... BEING HAPPY!


What the hell? No. Do you live in Unicorn Land?
Do you actually think that when this site was made, that the intention was for everyone to BE HAPPY. 


Also, so this is what looks to have happened:
-You post "Hey guys, I'm thinking of a crazy method, with thousands of algs, where you skip the LL. I have no idea how I'm going to go about this, nor will I say anything about my method, other than these 2 lines. See everyone in 5 years!"
-People make fun of how stupid that sounds.
-You get angry, because people pointed out how stupid your method was, instead of BEING HAPPY, and saying "Wow, such a great idea! I'll sit in this chair, and wait 5 years just for you! Your method seems amazing!"

I don't know how old you are, but in life, if you give out stupid ideas, without a single back up or information of what you're doing, methods, etc..., then people are going to let you know that it's stupid. Don't try to live in a sheltered life, where your parents are always telling you that everything you do is great, and that your the hottest person in school.


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## CubeX (Mar 25, 2011)

StachuK1992 said:


> As far as I can see, people told you off because your idea had no content.
> This is justified to some extent, as it was a waste of a thread (and not even a humorous one!); the vagueness of this idea is pretty extreme.
> 
> As for the "hating" or "rudeness:" although it's not appropriate, being here for three years should have taught you that this would have been the general reaction.
> ...


 
Well, you know, i did not want you guys to wait for me to finish making the method; i am just pointing out that i am making a new method that's all. I know it maybe impossible, but hey, it may not be, no one may ever know the truth of some things if they don't explore very deep into it.

So what i am trying to say is that: "Don't wait for me, continue with things of other importance; and don't worry about the method. Even if it takes years or maybe never to finish.........."


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## EricReese (Mar 25, 2011)

CubeX said:


> Well, you know, i did not want you guys to wait for me to finish making the method; i am just pointing out that i am making a new method that's all. I know it maybe impossible, but hey, it may not be, no one may ever know the truth of some things if they don't explore very deep into it.
> 
> So what i am trying to say is that: "Don't wait for me, continue with things of other importance; and don't worry about the method. Even if it takes years or maybe never to finish.........."



Then what would be the point of even announcing this method? What you're basically saying is that you meant to tell everyone "ohai geyz i thought of dis NEW! supamethod and i know i dont have anythiing worked out now but dont worry about it and forget i said anything, BUT IN 5 YEARS I WILL HAVE THIS METHOD DONE. just lettin ya no. letz be happay"

Makes no sense at all. People get put off with the idea of like 500 some algs just for ZBLL, and Ranza already figured out that just for R U R' insert F2l cases there is like 7000+ algs just for that F2L pair insertion. Surely you can't possibly dream that anyone would even bother with your method...?

Jus' sayin.


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## Kirjava (Mar 25, 2011)

You should be banned. You have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Innocence (Mar 25, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> You should be banned. You have no idea what you're talking about.


 
I also like this post, because it A. Doesn't quote anyone, leaving it up in the air who the target is. And B. Insinuates that not knowing what you're talking about is a bannable offence, which is just *barely* over the top. 

Yeah, I'm only in this thread to critique the posts.


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## Kirjava (Mar 25, 2011)

Innocence said:


> Insinuates that not knowing what you're talking about is a bannable offence, which is just *barely* over the top.


 
His odd sense of entitlement is the offence. Banning him shouldn't be an issue if he wanted to leave anyway.

I'd ask him about his method ideas, but there's no point because I know it's all bollocks.


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## Edward (Mar 25, 2011)

Innocence said:


> I also like this post, because it A. Doesn't quote anyone, leaving it up in the air who the target is. And B. Insinuates that not knowing what you're talking about is a bannable offence, which is just *barely* over the top.
> 
> Yeah, I'm only in this thread to critique the posts.


 This post is interesting because A. It quotes a post, making sure we know who you're talking about. And B. It implies that being barely over the top is a good thing  

Yeah, I'm the second in this thread to critique the posts.


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## Dene (Mar 25, 2011)

Andreaillest said:


> No I did not. Kir, Dene, and Stefan have been making "rude" responses in and out of the forums since...well forever. We've just gotten used to it by now and they really aren't serious. Do I agree with it...eh, it depends and honestly, I don't care. It's just something they do. Yes, they can get out of hand, but for most of the part, their comments aren't worth getting your panties all worked up for. Not theirs or anybody else's for that matter are worth getting mad over. And if you've met them in real life, they're actually really nice guys. Not mean at all and considered very helpful.



Usually when I am rude I am serious. Also, I doubt we have met because I am not a "really nice guy" by any stretch of the imagination. Also, definitely not "very helpful".



CubeX said:


> When i said even though i am quiting cubing for 2 years, Dene Bea....sly said (similar):
> 
> Dene: "The two years of peace i have been waiting for"



Not what I said, and considering you could easily check and quote me word for word I'm not sure why you decided to just go off memory and end up getting it wrong. Why edit out my name? Everyone knows it, or can find it with one click of their mouse (literally).



CubeX said:


> Well, my comment to you is back off, leave me alone. The reason i joined the Australian WCA Competitions was to have fun, i don't really care about the times anyway. And you suddenly think that i am there just to waste your time because i can't reach the cut-off limit. Oh, so what you are saying is that only if you can reach the cut off limit, then you can participate in those events. And so much more i could see your UNKINDNESS.



Cut offs have absolutely nothing to do with you. I think you are being way too egocentric. I hope you will notice that in the 3x3 event we have been trying to go with the absolute upper limit, that is only taking out 25% of competitors in each new round as required by the regulations. In other events we set cut offs based on what we _know_ is reasonable (I stress the point that we do know what times count as reasonable by current standards).

The reason we have cut offs is to ensure that we can keep to schedule, so that we can have as many events as possible, and so that we can have as many rounds as possible. If a cut off is set based on what we know any cuber could reach with a decent amount of practise. Some are harsher than others because they take up more time, for example 5x5+ sized cubes. In all fairness though, some of us (for example myself or Feliks) worked our butts off to reach the times that we are at so that now we are able reach the cut offs set (at least, Feliks can reach all of the cut offs; I can reach the ones that I care about). If you choose not to put in that same effort to reach the cut offs that is no fault of ours.

Also I never said that you were there to waste our time. I have no idea where you came up with this idea; I assume that in your anger you made a up a whole lot of negative ideas in your head, thinking that everyone is out to get you or something. I can assure you that this is not the case; we want as many people as possible to come to competitions. You further say that "i am there to waste your time because i can't reach the cut-off limit". I have no idea what you think cut offs have to do with anything, but the reason cut offs are there is for the exact opposite to what you think. We have cut offs to avoid people wasting our time, as in, the cut off is there so that you won't waste our time if you can't reach it.

As to your next statement, again I would encourage as many people to compete in as many events as possible. I do have certain exceptions to this statement, however. They are not unreasonable exceptions. For example, I would encourage people to compete in 6x6 and 7x7 only if they were likely to reach the cut off. The reason for this is that if a cuber were serious about either of these events they would be able to reach the cut off (therefore the cuber should not mind if they do not compete in the event) and also the fact that it wastes considerable time and resources (scrambler and judge) for someone that does not care about the event and is going to take a long time to get through. 

Of course I am unkind. I never tried to convince you or anyone else of the opposite. I am glad that we are now on the same page.

Now would you like me to explain why I made the comment that I did in the original thread? I will do so anyway so hopefully you can at least understand my point of view. I do not care whether you agree with my point of view or not.

The first and obvious reason is that you made a silly thread. This has already been explained in detail below and I need not say anymore other than for some reason you take this personally, when really most people do not know who you are nor care at all. All that matters is that people see a silly thread and then some decide that it is their responsibility to inform you of this. Usually they choose to inform you in an indirect manner (insults or rudeness or whatever) and therefore it might not come across as polite, but where is the fun in being polite?

The second reason is somewhat more specific to competitions. I will not go into detail in a public place due to privacy issues but if you wish for me to give you my specific reasons I would be happy to send you a PM.

Finally, you ask me to "back off". I would like to know at which point I "backed in", so to speak, as I have no idea what you are talking about.


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## shelley (Mar 25, 2011)

Innocence said:


> [...] insinuates that not knowing what you're talking about is a bannable offence


 
For the record, I've always liked that idea. Not sure all the other mods are with me on that though.


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## DavidWoner (Mar 25, 2011)

So before people accuse me of condoning rudeness, I will go ahead and say in plain English that I *do* condone rudeness when it is justified. Not everybody is a good forum member when they first join, I'd say a majority of them are quite poor. The process through which people learn to become good, contributing members of the forums varies on a personal basis. Some people lurk and learn by example, and some people post stupidly and are torn apart. Tim Major's transformation is a good example of the latter in action. When people are flamed repeatedly they will either correct their behavior or leave the site (voluntarily or through a ban). Both are preferable to continued poor posting. Instead of being thin-skinned and egotistical, think about why what you wrote may have elicited this sort of reaction from people. 

As for Kir/Dene/Stefan, it is not an issue of extra rights gained through seniority, it is an issue of correctness. The things they point out as stupid ARE stupid. They ARE pointless, and they should not be on the forum. K/D/S are also willing to elaborate on why something is stupid if prompted, as they have done so in this thread.

The flip side of this is the fine line between justified rudeness and pointless repetitive flaming. 20 posts in a row of people jumping on a flaming bandwagon is not ok.



shelley said:


> For the record, I've always liked that idea. Not sure all the other mods are with me on that though.


I throw that under the wide umbrella of "asshattery."

Also, in a direct answer to the OP's question, PJK made this forum so he could learn more about cubing from people who knew what they were talking about.


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## maggot (Mar 25, 2011)

Holy rage... 

In all seriousness I have no idea who you are. You're probably a cool cat. That's all I'm going to say.

As far as f3l, its cool to make a thread like that, but be prepared to discuss and defend your method if you start a thread about it. If its at least 100 algs, which we all agree something like f3l would take, well what is your estimated upper bound? What have you discovered about this ll skip method so far? Are you able to construct a solve as an example to how you would approach the solve and recognition? 

This is why you were flamed. Not because you're stupid, but posted something rediculous without any kind of backbone. It was honestly just clutter on the homepage. 

Get serious and I will discuss open mindedly with you.


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## qqwref (Mar 25, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> You post a topic that is essentially spam


Oh, good point. This sums up why I (and other people?) am annoyed by certain topics.



DavidWoner said:


> When people are flamed repeatedly they will either correct their behavior or leave the site (voluntarily or through a ban). Both are preferable to continued poor posting.


I agree these are preferable to continued poor posting. There is a third option, though; some people will stay on the site, while not becoming any smarter or behaving better, and just getting more trollish/angry. YouKnowWhoIMean™


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## EnterPseudonym (Mar 25, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> I showed this to Zane as soon as you posted, but had indoor soccer so I couldn't defend myself. Please point out any posts I've done to insult Timothy in this thread. I feel you used me and Zane as "examples" as we were the previous posts, but I see no flaming, just advice or pointing out of facts from us.
> I'm not saying I've never flamed anyone, but I try not to. I can recall me flaming/trolling a few months ago and I got temp banned so I learnt from it.
> And contributing to the community does not authorise you to flame others.


 
Actually when I read both Zane's and your comments I interpreted them as having a mocking tone.


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## DavidWoner (Mar 25, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I agree these are preferable to continued poor posting. There is a third option, though; some people will stay on the site, while not becoming any smarter or behaving better, and just getting more trollish/angry.


 
Well that's why I including the leave via banning part there, but I know what you are talking about.


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## EnterPseudonym (Mar 25, 2011)

Innocence said:


> @Zane and Tim: Just leave it. Seriously, we're not going to think you're mean just because some random says you are.


 
Someone random? hahahah oh wow, just kill me now so I won't have to live out my days as someone random to this guy.


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## Athefre (Mar 25, 2011)

Elite Quote Agents


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## Vinny (Mar 25, 2011)

Yeah I'm with the OP... A lot of people on the forums are constantly picking on people for making stupid threads because they think it's clogging up the forums, especially if someone decides to join the forum for the first time because they have a question. The second a new member puts up a thread that someone doesn't like, they get tons of people down their throats about something they didn't know any better about. And yes, they should read the forum rules, but not everyone's perfect. These people are all commenting on it saying "this thread is stupid," but that's just going to bring the thread back up to the top of the recent posts list.


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## Edward (Mar 25, 2011)

Vinny said:


> Yeah I'm with the OP... A lot of people on the forums are constantly picking on people for making stupid threads because they think it's clogging up the forums, especially if someone decides to join the forum for the first time because they have a question. The second a new member puts up a thread that someone doesn't like, they get tons of people down their throats about something they didn't know any better about. And yes, they should read the forum rules, but not everyone's perfect. These people are all commenting on it saying "this thread is stupid," but that's just going to bring the thread back up to the top of the recent posts list.


 
I might agree sometimes, but one problem. OP isn't new. He's been around since before a lot of people here.


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## Nestor (Mar 25, 2011)

Every forum has elitism within its members and this one is no different. What bugs me is the amount of self indulgence and lack of self restriction some people show when refuting or discussing a topic in this one. This scares newcomers as they are rapidly labeled as noobs, idiots, slow or the like... and with a such a small community as the cubing world has, exercising tolerance and patience (coated with a friendly attitude) surely would do wonders for everyone in the long run.

There is kind of a caste system to this place, in which people like me (+24"avrg, no means to attend to official meetings, meet other SS members IRL and lack of deep puzzle theory knowledge or amazing skills) are second class members and newcomers (if they go out of the one question answer thread out of ignorance or in their enthusiasm post a lot of stuff) are paria.

Not everyone is like this though, and I find a lot of people here to be really smart and polite. Is just the really smart ones + that are rude that ruin it for me.

--Edit-- I got ninjad two posts above


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## aronpm (Mar 25, 2011)

Dene said:


> Usually when I am rude I am serious. Also, I doubt we have met because I am not a "really nice guy" by any stretch of the imagination. Also, definitely not "very helpful".


 
Maybe not a "really nice guy" but you're not like online. :tu


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## Dene (Mar 25, 2011)

UnAbusador said:


> Every forum has elitism within its members and this one is no different. What bugs me is the amount of self indulgence and lack of self restriction some people show when refuting or discussing a topic in this one. This scares newcomers as they are rapidly labeled as noobs, idiots, slow or the like... and with a such a small community as the cubing world has, exercising tolerance and patience (coated with a friendly attitude) surely would do wonders for everyone in the long run.



I'm not sure why you believe that last point, but I can assure you that despite my own personal efforts the amount of people coming in is way more than the amount of people going out. Of course the reason for this is that most people won't care that they get flamed other than to stop coming on SS. They will just continue to cube at home and with their friends if they really enjoy it. 



UnAbusador said:


> There is kind of a caste system to this place, in which people like me (+24"avrg, no means to attend to official meetings, meet other SS members IRL and lack of deep puzzle theory knowledge or amazing skills) are second class members and newcomers (if they go out of the one question answer thread out of ignorance or in their enthusiasm post a lot of stuff) are paria.



When I joined the forums I was averaging sup20 and was completely isolated from the cubing world. The community was smaller then but at least Stefan was still around putting people down where he felt necessary. And yet I can assure you that I never felt like a second class member. Perhaps people were treating me like a second class member, perhaps not (I am really not sure and my lack of social skills often means that I miss social cues) but either way I continued to post and I probably posted some silly things but because I made it sound as though I was saying something intelligent, or made it look as if I put an effort into what I posted (I always do), I did not get treated like a lot of the noobs you see around. 

I guess one of the great things about the internet is that you have no identity when you come on for the first time. No one knows who you are, where you come from, what colour your skin is, whether you are a female or a male, how old you are, etc. etc. For once in the history of the human race people are judged for exactly what they should be judged for: what they say and how they act. If you say something stupid then that is the judgement that you are going to get. If you put in the effort expected of you then you will earn the respect of your peers. Newcomers should embrace this freedom that they now have in their lives; they now have the opportunity to shape the way that others think about them without any prior prejudices.

What it comes down to is, what goes around comes around on the internet. If you act stupid you will get treated in that way. If you act polite then you will get treated in that way. If you set yourself up for a big debate then people will debate with you. This is a very good thing.

Anyway, I have no idea why you feel as though you are treated like a second class member. I recognise your name and although I usually wouldn't go to the effort of reading your posts specifically (very few people have this status, not that it is special or anything), I do not associate your name with "stupid" or "flame-material" or anything like that.


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## Dene (Mar 25, 2011)

aronpm said:


> Maybe not a "really nice guy" but you're not like online. :tu


 
boo usmell


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## Kirjava (Mar 25, 2011)

Andreaillest said:


> And if you've met them in real life, they're actually really nice guys. Not mean at all and considered very helpful.


 
I don't know about that. I consider myself to be the same in real life.


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## qqwref (Mar 25, 2011)

UnAbusador said:


> people like me (+24"avrg, [...] lack of deep puzzle theory knowledge or amazing skills)


How do you think people with puzzle theory knowledge, or decent speed, got their talents? Magic? Blind luck? Natural talent? No, it's because these people put in a lot of effort, and did research into methods and techniques, and practiced for a long time even when they thought they wouldn't improve. It isn't easy, but anyone can do it, including you. If you are not reasonably fast (sub-20, let's say) or knowledgeable, it's only because of yourself. You just have to apply the effort and concentration that many other people have already put in.


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## moogra (Mar 26, 2011)

Going on about the cutoff times as I haven't seen this mentioned yet, the idea of a cutoff time is not new. It's been around before 2007 (Used in US Nationals 2006 for sure). I'm sure it's been around even earlier but I don't really want to look it up. The point of my bringing up this point is because complaints that cutoff times exist don't really make sense. They've been around since almost forever (back then < 1000 competitors).


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## Tim Major (Mar 26, 2011)

On phone, too lazy to quote, if the last para (@moogra) made sense, racism and sexism would never change. Just because things have been around for ever, doesn't mean they shouldn't change.


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## EricReese (Mar 26, 2011)

Theres no real alternative to cutoff times though. Some comps have a set time limit for their venue and if they let people who were 7 minutes on 5x5 complete their average, they would get done way behind schedule. The last comp I went to had to completely cut the 2nd round of 3x3 speed to make up for the lost time they accumulated.


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## Dene (Mar 26, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> On phone, too lazy to quote, if the last para (@moogra) made sense, racism and sexism would never change. Just because things have been around for ever, doesn't mean they shouldn't change.


 
No, but I hardly think it is reasonable to compare racism and sexism to cut off times in a Rubik's Cube competition.


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## crashdummy001 (Mar 26, 2011)

Cheer up and be happy that you weren't banned for spam like most other people like you


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## cuberkid10 (Mar 26, 2011)

Honestly, I feel that the Friendly feel of the forum is not very present. It's declining since 2009, and people are becoming meaner.


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## cuberr (Mar 26, 2011)

cuberkid10 said:


> Honestly, I feel that the Friendly feel of the forum is not very present.


I agree with this. Honestly I barely ever post in here because I'm afraid if I do then someone will automatically say something mean back. Although there is definitely a lot of people who are very helpful and give great advice.


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## cyoubx (Mar 26, 2011)

cuberkid10 said:


> Honestly, I feel that the Friendly feel of the forum is not very present. It's declining since 2009, and people are becoming meaner.


 
That's how I used to feel. I felt like I would get ostracized or flamed for something stupid. Here's my two cents:

1. This is a speedsolving forum, not a "make new friends, be happy forum." I think it's unfortunate the way we treat each other, but there's no reason why we wouldn't be rude to one another. This forum is centered around speedsolving, not making people feel welcome.

2. This is the internet. Flaming and any other sort of "rude" behavior doesn't really matter. Real-world skills are not directly applicable online. People can almost post anything they would like and get away with it because there's no strict rule that governs the speech (aside from the obvious profanity, etc). Conversely, it's unreasonable to react in the same way as you would in real life because the grounds are different. You just have to learn to cipher the useful information from the banter. This goes beyond this forum. The prime example is YouTube. People will post insensitive things, you just have to differentiate between the constructive and the useless. 

3. Rude posts =/= useless. Alot (pun intended) of the time, people are flamed because the post is irrelevant or far fetched. The OP's should consider what people tell them. Even if a reply is excruciatingly hurtful, it's important to look into WHY it was posted, not just that it was. People (including haters) do not just respond insultingly for no reason. Look into the content of what they are saying, and not their tone. 

'Tis only my thoughts.


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## Logan (Mar 26, 2011)

Couple of things:

1. People aren't nice. Suck it up.
2. You learn more when someone yells at you for doing wrong, than for "awww, it's ok. You'll do better next time. Don't worry. Here, have a cookie".
3. Some know how to flame in a moderate and well deserved way (like the people mentioned numerous times before).
4. If you wanna leave, leave. The sooner you learn how things like life work, the better.
5. I wish you luck for the future. Maybe you'll learn. Maybe not.


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## freshcuber (Mar 26, 2011)

To people calling out Kirjava, Dene, and Stefan, stop complaining so much. They will help you so long as you're not ignorant or are so stupid you drool through your helmet. (No reference to Stefan's video there btw)

Last week Kirjava and I disagreed on something or I was wrong and was corrected. I don't recall what it was exactly and I'm not going back to look at it but I was slightly put off. I didnt care too much that he'd been blunt but the next day there was a discussion in a thread about why there is OLL parity on a 4x4. I saw Kir had posted and was hesitant at first because I didn't feel like getting flamed but I did anyway. I, once again, was wrong and Kir was very blunt. I realized he obviously knew what he was talking about and asked him to explain. He answered and now I know more about cubing. If you take every small comment or bash to heart the first time it happens then you shouldn't leave your house. Many, many, people do this. Teachers, parents, friends, and a ton of coaches do it. They're not trying to be jerks they're just not going to waste their time one someone who doesn't care. 


Then just tonight I posted a thread about my stackmat malfunctioning. I was bordering on noobish but I thought there could be multiple problems that were the cause of it all and I didn't want to clutter the OAQT. Dene gave me a very prompt response that answered all I needed pretty much. If you go back and look at the thread it wasn't an "OMGGZZ MAH STACKMAT IS BROKED" I did everything I could to make my problems clear so I could get help. 

I can't think of an occasion where Stefan has been on my case. I'm sure it's happened though. For every time I took an insult I learned more than enough in return. When these people start to get on someone it's for a good reason. Only a few of their posts are mean purposefully without any other content. If you can't take someone not beating around the bush and getting right into the middle of a debate with you over something then good luck in life. You'll need it.

Edit: These are also the members that when I see they've posted in a thread I almost always give it a look. I'll eithe get a good chuckle or learn something new. Oftentimes all of the above. There are some members who contribute more and many of us recognize their names and check out there posts. These three are some of them.


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## moogra (Mar 26, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> On phone, too lazy to quote, if the last para (@moogra) made sense, racism and sexism would never change. Just because things have been around for ever, doesn't mean they shouldn't change.


 
So this is basically saying that I should compete in 7x7x7 since I can solve one but I take more than 10 minutes (assuming you mean that cutoffs should be changed/removed). I'll be taking up a large amount of the competition solely by myself just by solving it. Some things do not work and it is hardly fair to compare this to racism since as stated before, cutoffs are needed to maintain a timely schedule at a competition. Racism isn't needed in any community. They are needed and cannot change. I am not great at many of the puzzles (i.e. 6x6+, Sq-1, etc) and I choose not to compete in them because I would take up much of the competition.


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## Nestor (Mar 26, 2011)

Dene said:


> Anyway, I have no idea why you feel as though you are treated like a second class member. I recognise your name and although I usually wouldn't go to the effort of reading your posts specifically (very few people have this status, not that it is special or anything), I do not associate your name with "stupid" or "flame-material" or anything like that.


Perhaps my word choosing was poor. I didn't mean "second class member" in a derogatory way, but more like "not relevant" kind of way (you'll have to excuse my English). I don't feel affected personally by this, after all this is the internet and if I would let anonymous people affect me IRL then I would be lacking more than just plain self esteem. What I meant is that while lurking this forums I am well aware of my limitations and how much I can contribute to several discussions, and clearly is not much since more informed, experienced and skilled people here dominate the subjects. This creates a gap between a certain group that are the ases of this hobbie and the rest, that sometimes turns into elitism (judging by some of the comments I've read and the mocking some people love to do).




qqwref said:


> How do you think people with puzzle theory knowledge, or decent speed, got their talents? Magic? Blind luck? Natural talent? No, it's because these people put in a lot of effort, and did research into methods and techniques, and practiced for a long time even when they thought they wouldn't improve. It isn't easy, but anyone can do it, including you. If you are not reasonably fast (sub-20, let's say) or knowledgeable, it's only because of yourself. You just have to apply the effort and concentration that many other people have already put in.



Never said otherwise. I am well aware that my execution and knowledge are proportional to the time I invest in nurturing them, and I respect and admire those who have the dedication and natural skill to excell in any area. But shinning is no excuse for looking down on those that lag behind you: those that are humble and helpful to newcomers serve as an example to all of us as to how to behave in general.

I love sarcasm and the occasional picking for fun when the occasion suits, but after it becomes a norm it starts to get really annoying. I dont think anyone here is mean or a bad person, but sometimes they can look that way to newcomers and IMO it just hurts this forum's community.


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## Kenneth (Mar 26, 2011)

Meisen said:


> Especially 3 relatively rude people pops into mind; kirjava, dene and stefan.



Not fair to have Stefan in there, sure he is rude, but only when there is a serious reason, (stupidness mostly). Dene is random, you newer know when he strikes but Kirjava does it all the time, reason or no reason, for fun, when he is bored e.t.c. He really should get a life....


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## Rune (Mar 26, 2011)

Kenneth said:


> Not fair to have Stefan in there, sure he is rude, but only when there is a serious reason, (stupidness mostly). Dene is random, you newer know when he strikes but Kirjava does it all the time, reason or no reason, for fun, when he is bored e.t.c. He really should get a life....



Sometimes you look very wise, Kenneth!


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## Dene (Mar 26, 2011)

Kenneth said:


> Dene is random, you newer know when he strikes


 
<3 you Kenneth


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