# What happens when people leave competitions before competing in the next round?



## Matt11111 (Feb 27, 2016)

I just came home from the Big Apple Cube Clash, and I'm pretty upset.

When I competed in 3x3, I got a 16 second average, which was good for 60th place in the first round. Or so I thought. The top 60 competitors advanced to the second round, so I was stoked. I had just made it in. Or so I thought. The second round rolled around, and they didn't call my name, so I went to find out what was up. They told me that Andrew Ricci had come in very late and gotten second place, bumping me down to 61st. First of all, if he was so late that they had already finished entering the 3x3 times into Cubecomps before he competed, why did they still allow him to do so? My dad wasn't happy either, because we had spent two extra hours there for no reason (He's the kind of person who leaves when all my rounds are over). 

I'm not done.

So I get home and I check Cubecomps. I see myself in 61st place, like they said. But then I noticed that only 57 people competed in 3x3 round 2. That implies that three people (Zachary Ashany, John Hu, and Hans Hu) likely left the competition. If so, doesn't that mean that 61st, 62nd, and 63rd place should have competed in their place? Considering what happened, it would only be fair.


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## DGCubes (Feb 27, 2016)

"9p3) If a qualifying competitor withdraws from a round, they may be replaced by the best-ranked competitor below the cutoff from the preceding round."

The word "may" makes it sound like it's up to the organizers. I have a feeling that if you complained to them, they would've allowed it, although it's somewhat ambiguous. Speaking from personal experience, at Norwich Summer 2015, I was 17th in round 2 (top 16 made finals), but Tim Wong left, so they let me compete in the final round.


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## Mikel (Feb 27, 2016)

From what I have seen at competitions usually organizers do not add more people if advancers opt out of the next round. I'm not sure why, but I'd guess its just a hassle to track down people.

At World's 2013 the 3BLD final was supposed to be top 16. Feliks neglected to compete in the finals and they didn't allow John Brechon to compete. They just went ahead with top 15.

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=WC2013&allResults=1#e333bf_f


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## Reinier Schippers (Feb 27, 2016)

Most of the time people are allowed to compete if somebody doesn't compete in the next round. However generally the competitor that doesn't compete already told the organiser before the round happened. Also about the getting kicked out because andrew ricci joined later.. do you have proof how much later he competed than the rest did?


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## Matt11111 (Feb 27, 2016)

DGCubes said:


> "9p3) If a qualifying competitor withdraws from a round, they may be replaced by the best-ranked competitor below the cutoff from the preceding round."
> 
> The word "may" makes it sound like it's up to the organizers. I have a feeling that if you complained to them, they would've allowed it, although it's somewhat ambiguous. Speaking from personal experience, at Norwich Summer 2015, I was 17th in round 2 (top 16 made finals), but Tim Wong left, so they let me compete in the final round.



Fair enough, but I didn't even know that three people left, because my dad and I had already packed up and gone.

Plus the 2x2 final had already started when we realized something was up.



Reinier Schippers said:


> Most of the time people are allowed to compete if somebody doesn't compete in the next round. However generally the competitor that doesn't compete already told the organiser before the round happened. Also about the getting kicked out because andrew ricci joined later.. do you have proof how much later he competed than the rest did?



No, they just said he was "very late."


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## Reinier Schippers (Feb 27, 2016)

Each round must be completed before any following round of the same event starts.

So if you were already competing in round two and then later you were dnf'ed because ricci did round one after round 2 started you had the right to complain
Which didnt happen?


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## Matt11111 (Feb 27, 2016)

Unfortunately, no, it didn't happen.

I'll probably contact the organizer to see how late Andrew actually was.


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## Reinier Schippers (Feb 27, 2016)

Yeah, even if he was very late it would be fair to at least give you a heads up. Communication is key I suppose. Did they print out results or did you just look om cubecomps?


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## Matt11111 (Feb 27, 2016)

Reinier Schippers said:


> Yeah, even if he was very late it would be fair to at least give you a heads up. Communication is key I suppose. Did they print out results or did you just look om cubecomps?



I looked on Cubecomps multiple times long after the 3x3 round was over, and every time I checked, I was in 60th.


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## Reinier Schippers (Feb 27, 2016)

Okay, then just email the organiser and see his response


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## Matt11111 (Feb 27, 2016)

Reinier Schippers said:


> Okay, then just email the organiser and see his response



Ok then. 

EDIT: I just got an email from Eric Zhao. He says Andrew was actually one of the first people to compete, as part of the staff round. However, the competition was behind schedule, so everybody was working to get back on track, so a bunch of score cards were stacked on top of Andrew's, and it took a while to enter all of the results (I think they were finished with entering the 3x3 results around lunchtime). 

Fair enough. Guess I need to practice a little more. When I saw myself in 60th place, I thought, oh crud, a few people are probably going to bump me down. (checks Cubecomps) Yowie. I missed 60th (59th?) place by .06 second.


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## Matt11111 (Mar 1, 2016)

What?

Hang on, so what place am I in? 

Does this mean I should have made the second round?

WHAT HAPPENED THAT I'M OFFICIALLY RANKED AS 60TH?

Did someone get disqualified or something?

Should I contact Eric Zhao again?

Should I just retire


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## ottozing (Mar 1, 2016)

Ship happens man, not much more can be said or done beyond that. Sorry to hear about what happened but do you honestly expect anything to be done?


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## Isaac Lai (Mar 1, 2016)

Matt11111 said:


> View attachment 5940
> 
> What?
> 
> ...



http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1398&cat=1&rnd=1

In short, yes I guess.


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## Mollerz (Mar 1, 2016)

I'll give some insight on this as an organiser, it may sound harsh, but it will get the point across.

If you are checking cubecomps for your position in a round, you should also _always_ check the bottom of the list to see if there are any competitors who are not entered. If there are very few, you should ask the organisers whether all of the results are in. In the past, we used to just ignore people who did not compete and as a result leave them in the ranks at the bottom with no results entered. However organisers *should* instead make sure they receive the blank scorecard, proving that they did not compete, and quit them out the round. This will let all competitors that are checking cubecomps know that all results are in, since there will be no competitors with empty results.

Given that your competition went behind schedule, I can understand not getting the results fully in. You could have gone up to an organiser and asked a very simple question, "Are all the results for 3x3 Round One entered?" and they will check (or know already) and let you know. From my understanding, you were close to the second round cut but did not check the bottom of the list to see if everyone was entered. So this is your fault for not checking that.

This is sort of on the same topic, so I'll mention it as well. Let's say all the results were entered and you were in 61st place, with 60 people going forward to the next round. The first option is to accept this and go home, no big deal, you'll probably compete again in the future, have practiced, and be much faster anyway. The second option is to ask the organisers again. I would phrase it something like this; "I am currently in 61st place with 60 going through the next round. Has anyone let you know they won't be competing in 3x3 Round Two, or will you not send any extras through to the next round?" As mentioned before, given that they were behind schedule, as an organiser I would *not* accept extra people in case anyone misses the second round for any reason. Fewer solves take less time, and therefore catching up on the schedule. If we were on time or ahead of schedule, I would definitely let them compete assuming someone dropped out. However, the crux of this is the following: *It is on your head to ask the organiser whether they will accept more people if someone drops out, and it is also down to you whether you wait around for an extra two hours (Or whatever the time frame may be), for only a chance to compete in the next round.*

TL;DR: Practice more and don't worry about not making the next round, it's way easier.


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## Matt11111 (Mar 1, 2016)

Just for the record, we got back on schedule rather quickly.


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## WACWCA (Mar 1, 2016)

They were also very slow uploading to cube comps there which may be why


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