# Which PLL perm do you hate the most?



## RubikZz (Jul 20, 2011)

Hello,,

So which do you hate the most?
I had a maximum of 10 so not everyting can added.
Please say that if he is not listed.

Greeting Mathijs.


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## emolover (Jul 20, 2011)

N perms like everyone else.


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## antoineccantin (Jul 20, 2011)

F-perm, because I don't know the OH alg.


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## uberCuber (Jul 20, 2011)

Specifically Nb. I love Na.


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## cubernya (Jul 20, 2011)

LOL 5/6 said N perm


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## Bapao (Jul 20, 2011)

I despise R perms. Ra to be precise. I like N perms though.


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## Ranzha (Jul 20, 2011)

uberCuber said:


> Specifically Nb. I love Na.


 
This.


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## Jungleterrain (Jul 20, 2011)

Interesting grammar, there, OP.



b4p4076 said:


> I despise R perms. Ra to be precise. I like N perms though.



Me too. My current R perms suck, but I think I'll switch to better ones once I finish learning OLL. N perms have a nice flow, IMO. R perms don't.


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## Muesli (Jul 20, 2011)

E. I hate that b**tard. My N(b) is faster than it.


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## BigGreen (Jul 20, 2011)

H perm. its the worst.


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## Jungleterrain (Jul 20, 2011)

BigGreen said:


> H perm. its the worst.


 
really?


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## cubernya (Jul 20, 2011)

I like my R perm 

(R' U2 R U2) (R' F R U R' U') (R' F' R2 U')


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## Ranzha (Jul 20, 2011)

BigGreen said:


> H perm. its the worst.


 
Have you tried Takafumi's H-perm? I heard of a guy who almost sub-2'd it.


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## cityzach (Jul 20, 2011)

i hate F's and E's. im fine with Ns and Gs


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## Sa967St (Jul 20, 2011)

Y perm because I can't do it fast and I almost always lock-up on it.


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## Bizarro (Jul 20, 2011)

Z perm. One of my slowest.


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## Bapao (Jul 20, 2011)

Jungleterrain said:


> Interesting grammar, there, OP.
> 
> 
> 
> Me too. My current R perms suck, but I think I'll switch to better ones once I finish learning OLL. *N perms have a nice flow*, IMO. R perms don't.


 
Right? They feel sexy


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## RubikZz (Jul 20, 2011)

theZcuber said:


> I like my R perm
> 
> (R' U2 R U2) (R' F R U R' U') (R' F' R2 U')


 
Thats the same as me (R(b)), I like R perms.

Hate N perms.


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## Bapao (Jul 20, 2011)

Bizarro said:


> Z perm. One of my slowest.


 
Which alg do you use?


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## chrissyD (Jul 20, 2011)

Z, N and E are all horrible

R(b) is my favourite


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## xabu1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Jungleterrain said:


> really?


 
I am pretty sure he is kidding because he is sub 10 roux.

I hated n perm... good thing I never got it at a competition


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 20, 2011)

Probably V or N, I chose V. It's like, ocool Aperm, and then I see adjacent edges swapped and I have to regrip from Aperm hand grip to V, and all the while I'm like FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

I dislike getting L in solves though, my alg is so slow for it (I perform L from 3 diff angles, all equally sloww).


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## xabu1 (Jul 20, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> Probably V or N, I chose V. It's like, ocool Aperm, and then I see adjacent edges swapped and I have to regrip from Aperm hand grip to V, and all the while I'm like FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.
> 
> I dislike getting L in solves though, my alg is so slow for it (I perform L from 3 diff angles, all equally sloww).


 
L perm? what is that one?


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## Bizarro (Jul 20, 2011)

b4p4076 said:


> Which alg do you use?


 
M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U2..I'm not good at flicking the M's.


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 20, 2011)

J(a)

The non T perm based one.


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## ben1996123 (Jul 20, 2011)

N perµtation


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## Sa967St (Jul 20, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> J(a)
> 
> The non T perm based one.



x U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' R2


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## Ranzha (Jul 20, 2011)

Bizarro said:


> M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U2..I'm not good at flicking the M's.


 
U' M' U M2' U M2' U M' U2 M2'


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 20, 2011)

Sa967St said:


> x U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' R2


 
Mind showing how you perform it? If I can do this alg sub 1.5, I'll switch.


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## Kirjava (Jul 20, 2011)

Z perm is a curse


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## Bapao (Jul 20, 2011)

Bizarro said:


> M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U2..I'm not good at flicking the M's.


 
That's the one I use...which finger do you use for M's?



RyanReese09 said:


> Probably V or N, I chose V. It's like,* ocool Aperm, and then I see adjacent edges swapped and I have to regrip from Aperm hand grip to V, and all the while I'm like FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU*.
> 
> I dislike getting L in solves though, my alg is so slow for it (I perform L from 3 diff angles, all equally sloww).





Kirjava said:


> Z perm is a curse



@ Kirjava: For the same reason?


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## BigGreen (Jul 20, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> Mind showing how you perform it? If I can do this alg sub 1.5, I'll switch.


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## Sa967St (Jul 20, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> Mind showing how you perform it? If I can do this alg sub 1.5, I'll switch.


 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WScZIbVlDw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpBF_gIcsdM


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## Bizarro (Jul 20, 2011)

b4p4076 said:


> That's the one I use...which finger do you use for M's?


 
Middle, but since I'm awful at it I end up doing a r2/R2 action..I should put in the practice considering how much faster it is to flick, but I don't.


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## dimwmuni (Jul 20, 2011)

On 3x3 I don't like either N perm

On megaminx I dislike BMo BM+ and BM++ the most, they are annoying to recognize.


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## teller (Jul 20, 2011)

I'm going to have to go with "E."

(and I'm going to have to switch to Sarah's L Perm)


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## RaresB (Jul 20, 2011)

i hate n and e but i hate n more


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## Kirjava (Jul 20, 2011)

b4p4076 said:


> @ Kirjava: For the same reason?


 
na. Z makes EPLL all nasty and stuff.


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## Bapao (Jul 20, 2011)

Bizarro said:


> Middle, but since I'm awful at it *I end up doing a r2/R2 action*..I should put in the practice considering how much faster it is to flick, but I don't.


 
Hahaha! Sounds familiar 



Kirjava said:


> na. Z makes EPLL all nasty and stuff.


 
Please forget I asked


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 20, 2011)

Sa967St said:


> x U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' R2


I approve of this alg.


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## RubikZz (Jul 20, 2011)

What does mean L Perm and what is the algorithm above here?


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## TMOY (Jul 20, 2011)

B-perm and D-perm. Never found any good alg for those two. C-perm and Q-perm are bad too.


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## James Cavanauh (Jul 20, 2011)

Musli4brekkies said:


> E. I hate that b**tard. My N(b) is faster than it.


 
y perm is good for that...


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## uberCuber (Jul 20, 2011)

James Cavanauh said:


> y perm is good for that...


 
wut


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## TeddyKGB (Jul 20, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> I approve of this alg.


 
I approve of this approval.


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## DaKrazedKyubizt (Jul 20, 2011)

antoineccantin said:


> F-perm, because I don't know the OH alg.


 
R U2 R' U' R U2 R (L' U) R U R U' R' U' R2 U' r

Does that help?


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## tx789 (Jul 21, 2011)

F perm


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## Clayy9 (Jul 21, 2011)

V-perm, but only because I use a bad (for me) alg for it.


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## Juju (Jul 21, 2011)

V perm was by far my worst, until I drilled it constantly for like 3 days. Now it's one of my favourites. I need to do the same for N(a) and Z


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## Phlippieskezer (Jul 21, 2011)

V, N, F, and E, because those are the only ones I don't know 1LPLL for... And I don't care, since I solve Roux. 

PS: The spelling and grammar in the title of this thread is horrible. ._.


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## cubernya (Jul 21, 2011)

Also, for those of you complaining that you hate E perms (yes I know I thought the same until yesterday) look below

Thanks to kprox for posting this on another thread, it was very easy to learn and perform

E perm (holding it horizontally switching) - z (U2 R'2 F) (R U R' U')*3 (F' R2 U'2)


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## uberCuber (Jul 21, 2011)

Why can't people RUD?


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## Clayy9 (Jul 21, 2011)

theZcuber said:


> Also, for those of you complaining that you hate E perms (yes I know I thought the same until yesterday) look below
> 
> Thanks to kprox for posting this on another thread, it was very easy to learn and perform
> 
> E perm (holding it horizontally switching) - z (U2 R'2 F) (R U R' U')*3 (F' R2 U'2)


 
This is what I use as my E-perm, and I like it.

EDIT: To uberCuber, I just happened to learn this one first, and I haven't had any reason to change it.


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## DRAGON_RYU (Jul 21, 2011)

OH HOW I HATE THAT DAMN N PERM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cubernya (Jul 21, 2011)

Clayy9 said:


> This is what I use as my E-perm, and I like it.
> 
> EDIT: To uberCuber, I just happened to learn this one first, and I haven't had any reason to change it.


 

Yeah it just seemed to work for me, very easy to remember (especially the R'2 into the F)


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## Samania (Jul 21, 2011)

N perms. and that annoying little E perm.


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## Vincents (Jul 21, 2011)

Does anyone else do for E:
x' Right Inverse Trigger D Right Trigger D' Right Trigger D Right Inverse trigger D'

(aka x' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D'


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## dimwmuni (Jul 21, 2011)

Vincents said:


> Does anyone else do for E:
> x' Right Inverse Trigger D Right Trigger D' Right Trigger D Right Inverse trigger D'
> 
> (aka x' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D'



I use this one sometimes.
I also use 
x' R U' R' D R U R' u2 R' U R D R' U' R'

Also



TMOY said:


> B-perm and D-perm. Never found any good alg for those two. C-perm and Q-perm are bad too.



What?


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 21, 2011)

Vincents said:


> Does anyone else do for E:
> x' Right Inverse Trigger D Right Trigger D' Right Trigger D Right Inverse trigger D'
> 
> (aka x' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D'


 
That's a very popular alg. I love it.


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## Ranzha (Jul 21, 2011)

Vincents said:


> Does anyone else do for E:
> x' Right Inverse Trigger D Right Trigger D' Right Trigger D Right Inverse trigger D'
> 
> (aka x' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D'


 
I do that. All the D moves are with left ring, either pushing or pulling.


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## RaresB (Jul 21, 2011)

Man I hate s perm so much, it takes so long to do but luckily it rarely cums up.


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 21, 2011)

pwnAge said:


> Man I hate s perm so much, it takes so long to do but luckily it rarely cums up.


 
Fun fact, Z perm was originally going to be called S perm but they made it Z, for hopefully obvious reasons.

Read that somewhere, I forget what source.


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## JyH (Jul 21, 2011)

Phlippieskezer said:


> \PS: The spelling and grammar in the title of this thread is horrible. ._.





RubikZz's Signature said:


> Sorry for bad English.



>.>

Both N perms.


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## Julian (Jul 21, 2011)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> I do that. All the D moves are with left ring, either pushing or pulling.


So do I, except for the last move. I use my left thumb.



RyanReese09 said:


> Fun fact, Z perm was originally going to be called S perm but they made it Z, for hopefully obvious reasons.
> 
> Read that somewhere, I forget what source.


Lol.

Makes me wonder who decided the names for PLLs.


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## cyoubx (Jul 21, 2011)

J(a) sucks for me.

Least favorites: J(a), Y, R(a)

Everything else is awesome.


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## teller (Jul 21, 2011)

I've got 64-bit Cube Explorer hammering away at the E-Perm as we speak...it's time I find a gem in the rough...


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## maggotcuber (Jul 21, 2011)

N perms, they're just long and annoying!
Here's a good V perm for this who don't like it! 
V: (R' U R') d' (R' F') (R2 U' R' U) (R' F R F)
(Regrip before the d' and do the d' with ring finger)


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## buelercuber (Jul 21, 2011)

How is "F" perm not on this list? really? it's the most annoying one next to "N"


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## hic0057 (Jul 21, 2011)

Defiantly N perm.
Just wondering, does anyone use this alg for the N perm: zUR'DR2'U'RD'UR'DR2U'RD'
It was in a video done by Erik in the link below. Any opinions about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l691I2zEfZw&feature=channel_video_title


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## Cool Frog (Jul 21, 2011)

Z perm, Makes me angry.

Ohya, and I can't E2 (Sad and true I practice everyday and I just sobad) :'(


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## Enter (Jul 21, 2011)

I love N12 pll's i can sub one them 
i hate the F-perm 1.60 is my avg


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## MoRpHiiNe (Jul 21, 2011)

I dislike the spelling of 'wich' -> 'Which' and 'must' -> 'Most' in the title.
But on topic, I don't really hate any of the PLL algs, Although I don't know them all...
From looking at the algorithms, I'd say G's would be my worst, to many cube rotations and Double layer turns =S.
F could be another... 
I don't see how N perms are that bad though?


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## Godmil (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm the only person to say A perm.
They are the bane of my cubing life. I've got through 4 sets of algs for them.
I just cant strike up a nice balance between finger friendly and starting from an easy to recognise position. Currently I'm learning to double D with my left hand (which most people seem to do, but feels awkward to me) and recognising by placing the 2x2 block in the FUL corner (to match my V-perm) and looking at the side colours to identify the case (colour recognition is still terrible for me, but I'm getting used to it).
F and Nb are my fav algs... although Na I lock up on too much.


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## Selkie (Jul 21, 2011)

Used to Be N perms, which I used to use the RUL 3gen. I then changed Na to the 21 move setup/J/setup and the Nb to RUD, now both of the N's are RUD.

Also hated E, but drilled that one doing the D and D' with left ring finger and happy with that.

I guess it is a couple of the G now, if for no other reason is they are the most likely I will pop a cube. Unfortunately when I originally learned my PLLs I used to do RU' or Ru' by pushing through with my thumb rather than doing the U' with left index, the latter being much more scalable with tps. also I find Ru' or R'u to be a pop-fest with my style when pushed through.

To be honest I am having to optimise each PLL one after another for possible better algs, regrips, fingertricks etc. I have done 4 of them so far and will continue after comp end of this month.


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## BC1997 (Jul 21, 2011)

N and G, also A perms make myHaiyan's Haiyan pop so.....


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## uberCuber (Jul 21, 2011)

BC1997 said:


> A perms make myHaiyan's Haiyan pop so.....


 
I'm pretty sure it's just you turning inaccurately that makes the cube pop, not the permutation itself.


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## enigmahack (Jul 21, 2011)

My worst is by far the N's and the G's, and E for recognition. N's - I know 3 sets of algs for this one, I guess I need to drill them over and over like another cuber mentioned previously. The G's, I'm learning some fancy tricks for execution but still taking a while. And E - My recognition is horrible with it. It takes me a good 2 seconds to "see" it, but not long to execute.


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## That70sShowDude (Jul 21, 2011)

Ra, Gc, or F


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## a small kitten (Jul 21, 2011)

I hate H.


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## BigGreen (Jul 21, 2011)

you see im not the only one.


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## Forte (Jul 21, 2011)

BigGreen said:


> you see im not the only one.


 
well who doesn't hate it H perm, it's like 20qtm


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## Tao Yu (Jul 21, 2011)

G(c) or N(b)
I like most of my plls though.
Those two are okay but i screw up often.
I really like the " Rowe Hessler E perm "( PB is 1.20)
("x'RU'R'DRUR'D'RUR'DRU'R'D'x. Left ring for D, keep it in place, push back for D'!") 
I'm surprised Teller doesn't use it as its one of the most showy and cool algs out there.
I think I like E better than T as I always lock up on T.


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## RubikZz (Jul 21, 2011)

What is an L perm and what does it mean and what is the algorithm?


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## lucarubik (Jul 21, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> Probably V or N, I chose V. It's like, ocool Aperm, and then I see adjacent edges swapped and I have to regrip from Aperm hand grip to V, and all the while I'm like FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.
> 
> I dislike getting L in solves though, my alg is so slow for it (I perform L from 3 diff angles, all equally sloww).


 same about the V stuff


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## RubikZz (Jul 21, 2011)

I don't understand is it almost the same as an V-Perm?


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## bostoncuber (Oct 10, 2011)

no the H perm is awesome if you have the double trigger with the M2s


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## antoineccantin (Oct 10, 2011)

I actually like the V-perm better than A-perm.


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## Pandadudex96 (Oct 10, 2011)

antoineccantin said:


> I actually like the V-perm better than A-perm.


 
GASP!! (jk personal preferences )

for me, N sucks cause I do the very slow way...


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## timeless (Oct 10, 2011)

G perm, slow rec


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## Thompson (Oct 10, 2011)

I said V because I always think they are A's.


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## Yuxuibbs (Oct 10, 2011)

I can't find a good G perm or N perm but I just saw a video with a good N perm so I said G perm....


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## Escher (Oct 10, 2011)

U, because I always **** them up.

Ns are a bit slow, but very consistent, so I don't care.


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## timeless (Oct 10, 2011)

Yuxuibbs said:


> I can't find a good G perm or N perm but I just saw a video with a good N perm so I said G perm....


 
did u try the nperm with the j perm in it


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## Andreaillest (Oct 10, 2011)

E perm. My recognition for it flat out sucks.


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## Daryl (Oct 10, 2011)

N perm, because I often mash up with N..


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## Yes We Can! (Oct 10, 2011)

I really hate AUF E-Perm perm AUF. It's so slow to recognize...
Also, this G-Perm perm: RUR'y'R2u'RU'R'uR2 and N(b)-Perm perm (or was it N(a)?)... I mean the one with the block on FR.
They all maek me raeg.


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## CRO (Oct 10, 2011)

E perm.


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## RyanReese09 (Oct 10, 2011)

Yes said:


> I really hate AUF E-Perm perm AUF. It's so slow to recognize...
> Also, this G-Perm perm: RUR'y'R2u'RU'R'uR2 and N(b)-Perm perm (or was it N(a)?)... I mean the one with the block on FR.
> They all maek me raeg.


 
I *love* getting that g perm, . Only Gperm I'm actually excited to get. I can almost sub1 it.


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## ~Adam~ (Oct 10, 2011)

E, V and N. I hate them all.


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## Kirjava (Oct 10, 2011)

Z perm is the curse of EPLL.


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## DaKrazedKyubizt (Oct 10, 2011)

V. 

I sware, everytime I get a V-perm, something goes wrong, and the solve often goes over 15 seconds. It drives me up the wall. Generally doesn't happen with any other PLL, not even N-perm. JUST V-perm.


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## Kirjava (Oct 10, 2011)

Change your alg to something more consistent?


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## DaKrazedKyubizt (Oct 10, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> Change your alg to something more consistent?



I can't find something more consistent. Do you have anything that might work better than R' U R' d' R' F R2 U' R' U R' F R F? I lock up on this algorithm a lot.


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## Kirjava (Oct 10, 2011)

DaKrazedKyubizt said:


> I can't find something more consistent. Do you have anything that might work better than R' U R' d' R' F R2 U' R' U R' F R F? I lock up on this algorithm a lot.


 
look here first


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## d4m4s74 (Oct 10, 2011)

If I didn't post here yet, I'll go for the N or V. The N because it's slow, or V because it's hard to do from muscle memory using one handed (I can do it two handed without any problems, but I keep failing in OH because of some reason)


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## RTh (Oct 10, 2011)

Conclusion: Everybody loves the T-Perm, and just one poor fellow hates the U-perm.


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## CubeCraze (Oct 10, 2011)

Hate the H-perm. Like the m2s but I keep messing up the algorithms.


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## Jaycee (Oct 10, 2011)

OP should've put F and E instead of U and T. :/


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## Selkie (Oct 10, 2011)

No multi choice on the vote! 

Hmm, not really one of the more common ones but voted A. Just hate the double D flick. Have recently been trying the A similar to the J but with wide r's and its inverse but do not like the inverse much. Would have been a closely fought battle with V/F as well. Strangely after trying and switching to many variations I am quite happy with my current N's. A couple of my G's are slower than the other two but I should actually optimise the finger tricks on this so they are my own fault as it is no coincidence that my faster two are 2 I have worked on optimising. The 4 EPLL cases are probably the best but they get more of a 'work out' since incorprating some COLL subsets in my solves.


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## jrb (Oct 10, 2011)

N perm. Such a pain. I remember an average I got a couple of weeks ago where all my solves had N perms at the end. The average was 26.xx


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## RTh (Oct 10, 2011)

Selkie said:


> Hmm, not really one of the more common ones but voted A. Just hate the double D flick.



A-Perm is the only one I can do in 0.58s (PB).


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## Enter (Oct 10, 2011)

i can sub one the N pll's so i don't understand why so many people hate them  
Z D'R U'R2' DR' (UD') R U' R2' DR'U
Z UR' DR2' U'R (UD') R'D R2' U'RD'


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## umyeahhi (Nov 13, 2011)

G perms, they are part of the reason for me switching to Roux.


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## Phlippieskezer (Nov 13, 2011)

The EPLLs are the only ones I should ever encounter (Roux, or COLL with freefop/ZZ), really, so I'd probably say Z-perms, because it's my slowest of the bunch. I can still sub-2 and occasionally sub-1.5 it, though.


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## zmikecuber (Nov 13, 2011)

E perm.... definitely hate that one. lol. and all the G perms.... N perms are just kinda ehhh.


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## TheZenith27 (Nov 14, 2011)

I hate A because D2 moves are really awkward.


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## Sa967St (Nov 14, 2011)

TheZenith27 said:


> I hate A because D2 moves are really awkward.


You don't have to do D2 moves. 
I use l' U R' u2 L U' L' u2 R2 for Aa. It can be done sub 0.8.


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