# Why is your F2L slow?



## ilikecubing (Mar 30, 2011)

Well,not every cuber in this world is sub 4 F2L.

So I really wanted to know from people that why do they think their F2L is slow.

Starting with me,i think my F2L is slow because -

1. Cube rotations

2. I can't handle bad cases well

3. Bad Turn speed

4. Pauses

5. Lockups

My lookahead is not that bad so I won't include that


----------



## cookieyo145 (Mar 30, 2011)

I need to start trying. 90% of the time i don't speedcube.


----------



## gundamslicer (Mar 30, 2011)

I am slow because when ever the f2l pair is soled, and I don't know that, I waste like 3 seconds


----------



## Cool Frog (Mar 30, 2011)

By the time my f2l is done, the whole cube is finished.


----------



## DavidWoner (Mar 30, 2011)

If another non-f2l method user comes into this thread posting "hurr durr I don't do f2l look at me wut is f2l" or anything else equally stupid like what ALWAYS HAPPENS when there is a thread about CFOP, you will be banned for at least a week. You have been warned.


----------



## RyanReese09 (Mar 30, 2011)

Everyone has to do F2L somehow.

My suckiness is due to me either handling hte case incorrectly (from going too fast) or me not seeing the pairs. Most often the former.


----------



## somerandomkidmike (Mar 30, 2011)

My F2L sucks, because I don't use Fridrich.


----------



## Coke (Mar 30, 2011)

somerandomkidmike said:


> My F2L sucks, because I don't use Fridrich.


 
Ban away, david.


----------



## Coke (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm getting better, but my f2l is kind of slow because mainly of my look ahead.

When i'm inserting a pair, I spend quite a few seconds, maybe 3 or so sometimes, looking for a pair.

I've reduced this a bit, so more like 1 or 2 seconds, but still, that is the main reason. My turn speed is alright, and i'm ok with bad cases pretty much, just get them in the U layer.


----------



## nlCuber22 (Mar 30, 2011)

Coke said:


> Ban away, david.


 
Not the same thing at all.


----------



## pistelli (Mar 30, 2011)

I have a horrible look ahead. my f2l must be something like 20-25 seconds. My oll and pll are pretty fast though even though they are 2 look so I usually get in the mid 30s.


----------



## Coke (Mar 30, 2011)

nlCuber22 said:


> Not the same thing at all.


 
I suppose. 

However he DID say he wasn't using f2l or whatever.


----------



## freshcuber (Mar 30, 2011)

Inneficieny
Cube rotations
Poor look ahead


----------



## Erzz (Mar 30, 2011)

Because I put them in the wrong slots.


----------



## Mr 005 (Mar 30, 2011)

eh i am not that fast at it because i dont practice it enough, bad look ahead, and too many cube rotations. i usually add 20 - 40 seconds to my time if i use F2l


----------



## Zarxrax (Mar 30, 2011)

My F2L is slow primarily because of turning speed. Secondly, because of my poor lookahead.


----------



## Cyrus C. (Mar 30, 2011)

I sometimes go for a bad case, rather than looking for alternatives and dealing with it later. Sometimes I spend too much time looking for the best F2L to do next, and have a large pause. TPS is also a factor.


----------



## JonnyWhoopes (Mar 30, 2011)

I would honestly like a working definition for "slow F2L".


----------



## EricReese (Mar 30, 2011)

well to be fair, consistent turning can get you 10 seconds F2l. So I would say anything over 15 seconds is slow.

I pause too much, I can't spot the pairs fast enough

edit: and i meant 15 seconds entire solve. my bad.


----------



## crashdummy001 (Mar 30, 2011)

uses intuition and occasionally finds that my intuitive algs are twice the optimal length


----------



## Andreaillest (Mar 30, 2011)

I need to improve my look ahead and turning speed.


----------



## Cool Frog (Mar 30, 2011)

FreeFOP:Something along the lines of me building the random F2L blocks all wierd... and tons of cube rotations.
CFOP: Not optimal Corner edge pairing, Meh lookahead, and bad fingertricks.


----------



## cmhardw (Mar 30, 2011)

1) RUSHING then... ... .. pausing .... .. then RUSHING
2) Wristing like there's no tomorrow
3) Cube rotations like I win a prize if I physically can look at all 6 sides of the cube within the same second.


----------



## ElectricDoodie (Mar 30, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> If another non-f2l method user comes into this thread posting "hurr durr I don't do f2l look at me wut is f2l" or anything else equally stupid like what ALWAYS HAPPENS when there is a thread about CFOP, you will be banned for at least a week. You have been warned.


 Thank you. This problem has seriously been getting annoying and overdone.
I hope you stick to this.




On-topic: 
-My look ahead is the main problem. Some days, I'm just doing great, and can catch the pairs in a good amount of time. Other days, I try to follow pairs, but they are lost, as I solve the current F2L. On those bad days, I have to seriously focus and concentrate on tracking the pair, or at least 1 piece. I just need to figure out a way to better practice look ahead. This goes along with my Cross-to-F2L transition. Seriously needs work. Probably worst pause in my solve.

-The second problem is efficiency. Most of the time, I just solve whatever I see first, and don't even think about looking for better/more efficient pairs.


----------



## moogra (Mar 30, 2011)

Lookahead for sure as I have random pauses sometimes after cross and other times. Then probably turn speed. Compared to people I know in real life, my turn speed is fast. Compared to here, I'm probably about half of what everyone here is (3-4 or so on average).


----------



## SixSidedCube (Mar 30, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> If another non-f2l method user comes into this thread posting "hurr durr I don't do f2l look at me wut is f2l" or anything else equally stupid like what ALWAYS HAPPENS when there is a thread about CFOP, you will be banned for at least a week. You have been warned.


 
Who will be banned, sorry? ilikecubing? Or the "non-f2l method user"

I would say my F2L is slow mainly because I hardly practise soley on F2L. I just do full solves. My lookahead is average I would say, could be better for my current speed (19-23 secs) and my pauses are SHOCKING in cross-F2L transition. I also do not have very good solutions for bad cases and my turning speed is SOMEtimes too fast for my eyes to track pieces.


----------



## theace (Mar 30, 2011)

Look ahead issues, pauses, crappy algs.


----------



## Tim Major (Mar 30, 2011)

Lock ups. Not concentrating (this makes me forget about bothering with lookahead).


----------



## MaeLSTRoM (Mar 30, 2011)

Finding the correct pieces. The insertions aren't so bad for me...


----------



## Shortey (Mar 30, 2011)

nlCuber22 said:


> Not the same thing at all.


 
No, but it's just as pointless.


----------



## timeless (Mar 30, 2011)

pauses, bad lookahead,


----------



## The Bloody Talon (Mar 30, 2011)

pauses


----------



## Godmil (Mar 30, 2011)

Terrible look ahead and colour recognition, Seriously sometimes I can spend 3-4 seconds looking for an edge that is in UF. Also I do too many cube rotations.


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 30, 2011)

Locking up on LU 2-gen, or trying to find a piece that's in DL, DR, DRB, or DLB.


----------



## peterbone (Mar 30, 2011)

Mainly cross planning and look ahead


----------



## Dacuba (Mar 30, 2011)

I think my F2L is slow because of that look ahead thing I heard of

ok not that extremely but I'm seriously working on it by slowturning etc. Blind Cross helps more than expected


----------



## stoic (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm slow but working on F2L lookahead and tracking pieces at the moment


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 30, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> If another non-f2l method user comes into this thread posting "hurr durr I don't do f2l look at me wut is f2l" or anything else equally stupid like what ALWAYS HAPPENS when there is a thread about CFOP, you will be banned for at least a week. You have been warned.


 
This annoys me to no end. Roux users are like Mac fanboys.


----------



## collinbxyz (Mar 30, 2011)

I average about a little more than 10 seconds for F2L

1. Lack of important cases

2. Cube rotations, although I only do a few each F2L solve.

3. Look ahead a little, but I feel like I am doing better.


----------



## Olji (Mar 30, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> This annoys me to no end. Roux users are like Mac fanboys.


 
lol thats true, but Roux makes the solve more interesting though IMO (although thats no excuse for acting like that) 

im slow mainly for mediocre lookahead and cube rotations on CFOP, and mostly lack of practice on ZZ ._.


----------



## Nestor (Mar 30, 2011)

All of the previous... around 10" for F2l but I have a terrible terrible cross and LL which pushes me to 24" avg.


----------



## oll+phase+sync (Mar 30, 2011)

What anys me about my F2L

1. not finding a pair

2. doing more F and B moves than normal

3. When pieces hide in a foreign slots, I pull them out for move cout optimal Slot-in afterwards. but often that requires rotations or lot of F / B moves.


----------



## ElectricDoodie (Mar 30, 2011)

oll+phase+sync said:


> 2. doing more F and B moves than normal


 
I didn't know people actually did F and B moves during F2L.


----------



## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Mar 30, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> I didn't know people actually did F and B moves during F2L.


If I'm not wrong B moves aren't very common, but F moves are.


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 30, 2011)

B moves are the sh*t in algs.


----------



## uberCuber (Mar 30, 2011)

ilikecubing said:


> 4. Pauses
> 
> My lookahead is not that bad so I won't include that


 
I would like to know your reason for bad pauses if it isn't bad lookahead.



EricReese said:


> well to be fair, consistent turning can get you 10 seconds F2l. So I would say anything over 15 seconds is slow.
> 
> edit: and i meant 15 seconds entire solve. my bad.



I can get a 10-second F2L without getting a 15-second solve. Slow/Fast F2L doesn't say all that much about last layer speed. I don't see why you mention full-solve times when the question was simply about F2L speed.



ElectricDoodie said:


> I didn't know people actually did F and B moves during F2L.


 
It's called edge control.
R' F R F' etc.
I would agree though that B moves are not that common in F2L, but what Kirjava says about B moves in algs is :tu


----------



## ElectricDoodie (Mar 30, 2011)

uberCuber said:


> It's called edge control.
> R' F R F' etc.
> I would agree though that B moves are not that common in F2L, but what Kirjava says about B moves in algs is


 That's true. F moves aren't too weird to use, but a B in my F2L would throw me way off.

And B moves during PLL is fine with me.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Mar 30, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> This annoys me to no end. Roux users are like Mac fanboys.


 
Yeah, but Roux users are fun to race with when you rush the inspection time on them.


----------



## ssb150388 (Mar 30, 2011)

My F2L is slow because of not-so-optimal handling of the not-so-good cases.
TPS is not bad because I just use R/L/U in F2L. (Inspired by Faz \m/).
and of course, sometimes I forget to look ahead.


----------



## ilikecubing (Mar 30, 2011)

uberCuber said:


> I would like to know your reason for bad pauses if it isn't bad lookahead.


 
With lookahead i know where the pieces of my next pair have gone,but there is a slight pause in recognizing the EO and thinking about starting moves which are to be done after seeing the pair


----------



## uberCuber (Mar 30, 2011)

ilikecubing said:


> With lookahead i know where the pieces of my next pair have gone,but there is a slight pause in recognizing the EO and thinking about starting moves which are to be done after seeing the pair


 
Lookahead shouldn't just see where the pieces are but also how they are oriented. There is little point in looking ahead if it doesn't allow you to continue without pausing.


----------



## FatBoyXPC (Mar 30, 2011)

Mike Hughey said:


> Yeah, but Roux users are fun to race with when you rush the inspection time on them.


 
Or when you just make them stick to 12s (Jt at minimum), unless they have an easy first block. Give him time to pre-plan out his whole first and/or second block and of course he'll fly  That's like saying "let him plan out his entire F2L and see how fast he is"


----------



## jack3256 (Mar 30, 2011)

Between cross and the first pair even though I solve it on the bottom


----------



## Vinny (Mar 30, 2011)

Definitely cube rotations...

It'd be interesting if this was a poll to sort of compare everyone's reasons.


----------



## Pyjam (Mar 30, 2011)

My eyes are too lazy during F2L, instead of looking ahead I look at the pair I’m currently solving (even if I can do it with my eyes closed).

For this reason, I chose to apply a personal method: after the cross, I orient the edges (like in ZZ but much easier), then I solve the F2L.

The Pros:
– The difficulties are separate in two stages : orientation then F2L.
– It forces my eyes to be very active while orienting the edges.
– It simplifies the F2L cases. So I’m more confidant and I have a better look-ahead.
– Possibly, it prepares me a little for the EO step of ZZ.
– Very useful for OH beginners. I now have a decent PB.

The Cons:
– The OLL is reduced to the second step of 2-look OLL. So, you can’t include new OLL algs.
– Per se, it’s not a good speedsolving method, but it’s not its goal.

I opened a thread on this subject.
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?28340-Fridrich-with-early-edges-orientation


----------



## chris410 (Mar 31, 2011)

My cross needs work so the transition is slow, easy cross I can usually find the first pair however, most solves I can only spot a corner. Simply finding the pieces and inefficiency in some cases. I am working on simply slowing down and focusing on "smooth" solves with minimal pauses so my times are up and down. Of course, my times are horribly slow compared to most of the forum however, I cube for pure fun and self challenge so, I am ok with my speed compared to others.


----------



## Chapuunka (Mar 31, 2011)

When I'm using ZZ:
-Lack of practice (not used to looking in all those places for pieces)
-Too lazy to plan out the line part of EOline = huge pause

When I'm using CFOP:
-Cross-to-F2L transition
-Lockups because I don't slow down enough
-When I get lazy and stop trying to look ahead


----------



## 24653483361 (Mar 31, 2011)

Well lookahead is probably a big thing for me.
Also the transition from cross to f2l takes me like 5 seconds to find a pair.


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 31, 2011)

Chapuunka said:


> When I'm using ZZ:
> -Too lazy to plan out the line part of EOline = huge pause



This doesn't have to happen. Because of bad habits, I often don't even bother to locate the line edges before I start solving, but I always find them as I execute EO and then solve them. Usually, there's no pause. I / people in general should still plan out the line part of EOline in inspection anyway, though.


----------



## ryo (Mar 31, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> Roux users are like Mac fanboys.


This. Make my day.

My F2L sucks because :
- Either I'm not concentrate or I'm to lazy for a good look ahead.
- I slow down to search a multi-slot / an OLL skip / a shortest way to make the pair.
- Turning speed is not that great.


----------



## eastamazonantidote (Mar 31, 2011)

My eyes pick up pieces and I keep track and I know where everything is but I always get so proud of myself that I don't actually do the case with 100% focus and screw it up.


----------



## Reinier Schippers (Mar 31, 2011)

mostly bad cases screw up my f2l im around 8 seconds now...


----------



## Schmidt (Mar 31, 2011)

U3 moves! 1st pair! The next white not in the U layer! Being indecisive!


----------



## maggot (Mar 31, 2011)

for me, what kills my f2l is TPS. also, kind of related, during long session i am lazy to look for xcross. i just look for the easiest cross, not always the best cross. also i need to learn edge control. i try to learn it intuitively, but im a loser! hahah 

anyone have a good partial edge control guide? all i can figure out intuitively is 2gen and sledgehammer to help, but i use sledgehammer inefficiently? help thanks!


----------



## Chapuunka (Mar 31, 2011)

@maggot:





@Anonymous:
Thanks for all the useful ZZ advice you always seem to give. I'll definitely pay more attention to that.


----------



## cubefan4848 (Mar 31, 2011)

Mine is slow because I don't practice 3x3 enough.
I do too much pyraminx


----------



## nlCuber22 (Apr 1, 2011)

Coke said:


> I suppose.
> 
> However he DID say he wasn't using f2l or whatever.


 
Yes, but it's not the same thing. His answer was legitimate; he said his F2L isn't good because he doesn't practice Fridrich.


----------



## cubeslayer (Apr 1, 2011)

Pauses are what kill me...that and the fact my cube can't cut corners ( using a lubed Rubik's brand )


----------



## asportking (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm way too indecisive about pairs. I'll figure out how to do one pair, and right before I start it, I'll be like "Oooh! That pair looks easier" and switch.


----------



## Yuxuibbs (Apr 9, 2011)

my f2l is usually 20-30 sec and i get sub 40 a lot, i use intuitive f2l and end up using beginner's method for inserting edges sometimes


----------



## Elbeasto94 (Apr 9, 2011)

Yuxuibbs said:


> i use intuitive f2l and end up using beginner's method for inserting edges sometimes



When you are practicing try to force yourself to insert them using f2l and I can almost guarantee you will get faster.


----------



## toastman (Apr 9, 2011)

Because I have to find, then choose the first pair after the cross. If I don't have any D stickers on the top layer on F/B/L/R I'm completely stuffed and at that point have wasted 5 seconds+ trying to find something favourable to start with.


----------



## Chiv (Apr 12, 2011)

The reason my F2L is slow is mainly because I take so long looking around -- it's recognition which is the problem. I guess this will get better with practice.


----------



## caseyd (Apr 14, 2011)

my f2l (including the cross) is 15 -25 seconds ( but almost consistently at 20) and I think my f2l is bad because of
incomplete lookahead
bad U2 rotations
not knowing one alg that takes 15 moves for me to do intuitively, but other than that im happily sub 30


----------



## asportking (Apr 14, 2011)

My f2l's pretty slow, about 20 seconds. It's probably because I keep having trouble looking away from the one f2l pair I'm working on, although about a second before finishing one f2l pair, I can usually start looking for other pairs.


----------

