# TuRBo Corners



## byu (Mar 1, 2009)

I am in the process of learning TuRBo corners, but the algorithms seem to be lengthy and hard to memorize. I know commutators can be intuitive ways to do corner 3-cycles, but I'm not sure. How should I go about learning TuRBo corners (I've already memorized all the edge algs)


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## Shamah02 (Mar 1, 2009)

yea just try and intuitively learn the algs as commutators


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## byu (Mar 1, 2009)

You see, I "kind of" understand commutators, but I can definitely only execute them with my eyes open, and blindfolded, well, I just can't do them. Any tips? (I have been looking at Ryan Heise's tutorial for Corner 3-Cycle Commutators but I still can't do them blindfolded)


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## Shamah02 (Mar 1, 2009)

well I'm kinda in the same boat your in...(can't execute commutators blindfolded.... except for the easier U/D ones) do you understand what the algorithms do?


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## byu (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah, if I'm looking at them


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## Shamah02 (Mar 1, 2009)

well try and make "rules" for yourself when executing commutators like you most likely did in F2L...


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## byu (Mar 1, 2009)

rules... I don't understand


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## Shamah02 (Mar 1, 2009)

like say you had a commutator where you had 2 stickers on the U layer facing up and the lone corner in the D layer facing down. When you "see" this you know that it is not the simple commutator and needs 12 moves to be solved... If you see the same thing as the one above except the D layer sticker is on the R,L,F, or B face, then you would know that this can be solved using the simple 8 move commutator. I'm just speaking in general about all commutators and not the TuRBo ones though and this is hard to explain because you have to make the "rules" up yourself.


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## byu (Mar 1, 2009)

12 move commutator? Can you give me the alg?


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## Shamah02 (Mar 1, 2009)

well you do know that all corner 3 cycles can be solved in 8-12 moves and 12 being the worst case scenario... There are 6 cases that are 12 moves. This is one URB->ULF->DRF: U F2 U' F2 U' R2 U F2 U F2 U' R2

The other nasty ones are either mirrors or inverses of this one...
Daniel Beyer has a site of all corner commutators from URB but I can't find the link right now.


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## Rubixcubematt (Mar 1, 2009)

Shamah02 said:


> well you do know that all corner 3 cycles can be solved in 8-12 moves and 12 being the worst case scenario... There are 6 cases that are 12 moves. This is one URB->ULF->DRF: U F2 U' F2 U' R2 U F2 U F2 U' R2
> 
> The other nasty ones are either mirrors or inverses of this one...
> Daniel Beyer has a site of all corner commutators from URB but I can't find the link right now.



thats BH, not TuRBo or comms.........


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## Shamah02 (Mar 1, 2009)

I know. I was just speaking about commutators in general. And yes that is a commutator from the BH system...


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## Rubixcubematt (Mar 1, 2009)

Shamah02 said:


> I know. I was just speaking about commutators in general. And yes that is a commutator from the BH system...



How is it a commutator???? what is the ABA'B'??????


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## Shamah02 (Mar 1, 2009)

A=U F2 U' F2 U' 
B=R2
A'=U F2 U F2 U'
B'=R2


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## cmhardw (Mar 1, 2009)

Shamah02 said:


> A=U F2 U' F2 U'
> B=R2
> A'=U F2 U F2 U'
> B'=R2



[thread hijack]

That is my favorite commutator out of all of the corner ones. The A part is really beautiful once you understand what it's effect is and how it achieves it.

[/thread hijack]



Shamah02 said:


> like say you had a commutator where you had 2 stickers on the U layer facing up and the lone corner in the D layer facing down. When you "see" this you know that it is not the simple commutator and needs 12 moves to be solved...



Not all cases of that type need 12 moves.

case 1) UBL -> DLB -> URB: D L2 D R2 D' L2 D R2 D2
case 2) UBL -> DLB -> URF: R' U2 R U L2 U' R' U L2 U R

I do agree though that you learn to see, based on how the stickers are situated in relation to eachother, which case type you have. It's a lot like F2L in CFOP solving actually. You could memorize every possible case as an "algorithm" or learn a small group of types of commutators and learn how to recognize them on other faces or from different angles. That's all BH is really. As for R2 commutators, try looking at the BH corner commutators first to see if you find one you like. If those don't work, or you don't like them, then try freestlye using setups and A perms or setting up into one of a couple simple commutators that you can recognize easily.

Hope that helps at least a bit,
Chris


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## martijn_cube (Mar 1, 2009)

don't know if you already have seen my TuRBo corners algs. but maybe you find them a bit easier. I'm also in the process of learning them.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136227&postcount=1


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## fanwuq (Mar 1, 2009)

Rubixcubematt said:


> Shamah02 said:
> 
> 
> > I know. I was just speaking about commutators in general. And yes that is a commutator from the BH system...
> ...



How can you not see it?!?

I really doubt that you actually use freestyle corners now.

Edit:

If you are transitioning between New/old Pochmann and Freestyle/TuRBo, try this: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9594


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## Rubixcubematt (Mar 1, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> I really doubt that you actually use freestyle corners now.



So your basically saying that if anyone makes a mistake, they don't do that????? If you made a mistake about speedcubing, could i say to you that i doubt you actually speedcube now?????


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## fanwuq (Mar 1, 2009)

Rubixcubematt said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > I really doubt that you actually use freestyle corners now.
> ...



The analogy is more like if I don't understand the definition of Roux EO, you will doubt that I use Roux. I'm not doubting that you can solve the cube blindfolded as you claim. But I am questioning how "free" is your "freestyle."


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## happa95 (Mar 1, 2009)

Rubixcubematt said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > I really doubt that you actually use freestyle corners now.
> ...



I think he was saying that he was doubting your freestyle corners because ABA'B' is such a fundamental part of commutators.

EDIT: sorry i didn't read your post carefully enough


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## Rubixcubematt (Mar 1, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Rubixcubematt said:
> 
> 
> > fanwuq said:
> ...



It is quite free, i just couldn't see ABA'B' in that for some reason.


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## Shamah02 (Mar 1, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> Shamah02 said:
> 
> 
> > A=U F2 U' F2 U'
> ...



Oh, I forgot about those... Thanks for pointing that out


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 2, 2009)

byu said:


> You see, I "kind of" understand commutators, but I can definitely only execute them with my eyes open, and blindfolded, well, I just can't do them. Any tips? (I have been looking at Ryan Heise's tutorial for Corner 3-Cycle Commutators but I still can't do them blindfolded)



Funny - for a number of months, I was the opposite - I could only execute commutators with my eyes closed.  With my eyes open, I would get confused somewhere in the middle and mess them up every time.

I remember at the Virginia Open when I finished my first 4x4x4 BLD attempt (a fairly close DNF - I think just a few pieces wrong), I just stared at it and couldn't solve it. Daniel Beyer took it from me and finished it for me, and I explained to him that I have trouble doing commutators sighted.

Seriously, practice doing them with your eyes closed - they're actually easier to do that way, once you get used to them.


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## byu (Mar 3, 2009)

The problem I have is that I can do the ones that are 8 moves, but not 12 moves. I can barely do 12 move ones sighted.


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## cmhardw (Mar 3, 2009)

byu said:


> The problem I have is that I can do the ones that are 8 moves, but not 12 moves. I can barely do 12 move ones sighted.



When executing the more complicated corner commutators blindfolded I go through this mental process:

1) View the setup move(s), if any, and how it/they bring(s) the 3 pieces into your standard 8 move commutator. This works for all cases except the 10 move case where all 3 corners are on the same face and all are adjacent and non-interchangeable. Also this does not work with the Per Special (the 12 move case) since it is a 12 move pure commutator.

2) Once you are into the 8 move commutator picture the function of the A part. How are you inserting a lone piece into a layer to replace a corner? Follow this process as you do the moves.

3) Now interchange the pieces, and picture them swapping with eachother.

4) Now don't picture anything at all about the pieces, just undo the moves you did in the A part.

5) Again don't picture anything at all, just undo the B, or interchange, move.

6) Picture how the 3 pieces are part of a 8 move commutator again, and picture the piece you moved at first with the setup turn. Now undo the setup turn and picture moving that piece back to where it started.

Obviously you don't always have setup turns, and for some algs setup turns combine/cancel with the A or B part of the commutator. Also sometimes you do BAB'A' commutators (A represents the insertion move and B the interchange move).

Anyway, take this as a general process for how to picture commutators when solving blindfolded.

Hope this helps,
Chris


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