# Which Z perm?



## fanwuq (May 27, 2008)

I've been using 2 Z perms. I can't dicide which to use. Both are very fast for me. My 4th fastest after U, U, and H.
(U’)M’UM2UM2UM’U2M2
1.87 best, 2.06 best average

(U’)l’URU’D’RUD’RU’R’D2
1.87 best, 2.10 best average

The MU one is more consistent and less likely to pop. The other one is fewer moves HTM. You can feel like you are going very slowly and still get sub-2. But i don't like the UD' and it is likely to pop.

I never learned the RU alg. What's the fastest anyone can do the Z perm, and what alg? Also try my algs and say which is better.
Thanks.


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## qqwref (May 27, 2008)

I personally do the second one and execute it like this:
x' (R U R') (U D) R' (U' D) (R' U R z') (R2' F)
I hold the back and front centers with my left hand and do the D moves with my left ring finger. I like how this one has very few motions, so it looks really efficient and isn't much slower than a U perm even if you go slowly (unlike the 18(?)-move 2-generator Z perm). My best Z perm times are probably around 1.7s, not too fast, but this is a very nice alg anyway.


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## Jai (May 27, 2008)

I personally use the first Z perm (the M' U 2-gen), but occasionally, I use this: 
M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U2
It's not that bad.


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## TobiasDaneels (May 27, 2008)

For this PLL I use this: L' U' L U' L U L U' L' U L U L2 U' L' U2.

Depending on you like it, you can do U2 in the begining or the end. And if you see it earlier, you sometimes don't need U2 at all.
Off course it can also be used on the R side. But I prefer L algo's.


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## bundat (May 27, 2008)

I used to use the Nakaji Z-perm
y (U R' U' R U' R U) (R U' R' U) R U (R2 U' R' U)
and I can do it at around 2.2 secs.

But I switched to
(M2 U2) (M U) (M2 U M2 U) (M U')
since I can constantly sub-2 that one (1.7 secs)


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## brunson (May 27, 2008)

qqwref said:


> I personally do the second one and execute it like this:
> x' (R U R') (U D) R' (U' D) (R' U R z') (R2' F)
> I hold the back and front centers with my left hand and do the D moves with my left ring finger. I like how this one has very few motions, so it looks really efficient and isn't much slower than a U perm even if you go slowly (unlike the 18(?)-move 2-generator Z perm). My best Z perm times are probably around 1.7s, not too fast, but this is a very nice alg anyway.


That alg is attributed to Dan Knights. It was the first one I permuted with various cube rotations until I found that same execution, the original notation I found did it without the x'. A video of Joel van Noort dominating that perm in about 1.6 seconds can be viewed here: http://solvethecube.110mb.com/fingertricks.html


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## Kenneth (May 27, 2008)

I know a couple of shorties:

F2 M2 F2 U M2 U M2 U M2 U ... do for real: (x) U2 M2 U2 (x') U M2 U M2 U M2 U

M2 U F2 M2 F2 M2 U' M2 U2 ... basicly the inverse of the previous one

Or use B2 instead of F2, it does the same thing.

Those two algs uses F2 M2 F2 M2 and setup turns but you can also use M E2 M E2 + setup, like this:

M2 U (M E2 M E2) U' M2


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## MistArts (May 27, 2008)

bundat said:


> I used to use the Nakaji Z-perm
> y (U R' U' R U' R U) (R U' R' U) R U (R2 U' R' U)
> and I can do it at around 2.2 secs.




I use that one but U' the ends.


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## fanwuq (May 28, 2008)

I think I'll stick with my MU alg. It flows quite nicely. Almost as fast as my H perm (1.50, 1.96). I can see people who get sub-1 on H perm to get about 1.1 on my Z.
Also I believe my mirror+x2 is better than Dan Knights' for 2H. It's better use of the Right hand. I prefer R over R' and U over U'. His is better for OH. ( I use it. Average sub-6, best of 4.47). 
I won't bother to learn the RU perm. It's too long. I refuse to learn that long of an alg. 2Gens are hard to memorize for me (trying 5-7 times). 3Gens are very easy to memo (Trying it 2 or 3 times). I'm glad to get rid of the FRU'... 17 move Y alg this week. Sadly, I've learned a 17 move F and 16 move R which are nice for OH.



brunson said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > I personally do the second one and execute it like this:
> ...



His video was a reason why I was reconsidering my old alg.


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## DavidWoner (May 28, 2008)

i suck at M turns, and i use a different RU than everyone else:

(R' U' R2 U) (R U R' U') (R U R U') (R U' R' U2)

i get about 2.3 with it, i am not very fast at perming.


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## FU (May 28, 2008)

Vault312 said:


> i suck at M turns, and i use a different RU than everyone else:
> 
> (R' U' R2 U) (R U R' U') (R U R U') (R U' R U2)
> 
> i get about 2.3 with it, i am not very fast at perming.



Last R should be R'


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## *LukeMayn* (May 29, 2008)

nice perms but I don't like M,S or E at all anywho this is mine UR'U'RU'RURU'R'URUR2U'R'U


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## fanwuq (May 29, 2008)

I love M'. The Other slice turns suck.


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## Alex DiTuro (May 31, 2008)

I'm *HORRIBLE *at M slices. I'll stick to UR'U'RU'RURU'R'URUR2U'R'U.
Hey, this gives me a nice idea for a poll


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## Poobslag (Jun 1, 2008)

My favorite is x'(RU')(R'U)(DR'DU')(R'UR)? It can kind of be done in 3 smooth motions.


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## philkt731 (Jun 1, 2008)

I don't like AUFing, so I use a nice MU thats different from anyones I've seen (its the mirror of an alg I saw Erik use)
M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U' M2
I can get 1.45 on it


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## fanwuq (Jun 1, 2008)

philkt731 said:


> I don't like AUFing, so I use a nice MU thats different from anyones I've seen (its the mirror of an alg I saw Erik use)
> M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U' M2
> I can get 1.45 on it



Actually I used that at first.

But i don't like the U' in the middle.


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## watermelon (Jun 1, 2008)

philkt731 said:


> I don't like AUFing, so I use a nice MU thats different from anyones I've seen (its the mirror of an alg I saw Erik use)
> M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U' M2
> I can get 1.45 on it


I use that alg as well. It's definitely one of my faster permutations. For OH, however, I use the standard RU alg.


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## Lofty (Jun 3, 2008)

I'm trying to switch to the first MU alg stated in this thread because I really like MU algs that are only M2, M' U2 and U' but my left hand is very M2 happy from doing the H so much.


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