# Should Energy Drinks/Caffeine Be Banned From Competitions?



## PhillipEspinoza (Nov 25, 2011)

Hello all,

I was wondering as another year of regulations approaches, what you all thought about the use of energy drinks and caffeine by competitors at competitions. I might be mistaken but as it is now there is no regulation of "performance-enhancing" products. I know it seems kinda ridiculous for speedcubing, but I wanted to know if it will ever get to the point where stuff like Monsters/Rockstar energy drinks will be banned from competitions. I personally use energy drinks during competitions because I do feel they help wake me up. Does this mean that I, as well as others who use energy drinks and caffeine, have an unfair advantage in my solves? Or are energy drinks and caffeine just getting rid of a disadvantage? 

I started thinking of this because I was once again thinking about how ridiculous the ban on headphones are. People argued that listening to certain music can increase memory and therefore be considered "performance-enhancing". To which I ask, should practice at competitions be banned as it could be considered "performance-enhancing"? What exactly would be considered "performance-enhancing"? What could be considered an "unfair advantage"?

EDIT: I would also like to open up the discussion to the opposite of energy drinks, things that are meant to calm you down. What about if a competitor takes non-prescribed Ritalin? Would that be acceptable?


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## SpeedSolve (Nov 25, 2011)

I've only had one Monster, and I fell asleep afterwards. Eh, I don't think they should be banned. Practicing is warming up.


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## Sa967St (Nov 25, 2011)

NO.


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## Specs112 (Nov 25, 2011)

How is this even a question that deserves to be asked?


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## emolover (Nov 25, 2011)

Although it is a "performance enhancer" for some people, for some it is detrimental to there solving ability. Personally I can think well when I have excess sugar in my system.


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## Escher (Nov 25, 2011)

I agree that there should be consistency. Imo there should be zero banning of substances until something emerges that increases performance significantly. 

I definitely think that the ban on listening to music while you compete is ridiculous (aside from BLD events, obviously).

The music rule to me just seems like another part of the WCA rulings that is defendable, but arbitrary in light of other weaknesses.


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## MiPiCubed (Nov 25, 2011)

I agree with Rowan. At this point there is nothing that provides a significant enough advantage to be considered for banning. Also, music can put you in the cubing zone, but only if you've practiced enough to get in that zone in the first place.


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## jrb (Nov 25, 2011)

Definitely not IMO. As Escher said, it doesn't increase performance significantly or even noticeably.


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## thackernerd (Nov 25, 2011)

No.


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## Weston (Nov 25, 2011)

A5b) While inspecting or solving the puzzle, the competitor must not have any assistance from anyone or any object (other than the surface). 
Penalty: disqualification of the solve. 

I guess its this rule at we are talking about?
Glasses are against the rules too.


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## chrissyD (Nov 25, 2011)

no... they don't even help.


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## Dave Campbell (Nov 25, 2011)

I think I'd quit cubing if I wasn't allowed to have my morning coffee before coming to compete. And as a delegate/organizer, that's the last thing I need to be worried about. "Is the huge slurpee cup Sarah has actually filled with juice or something with caffeine?"


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## DavidWoner (Nov 25, 2011)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> What could be considered an "unfair advantage"?
> 
> EDIT: I would also like to open up the discussion to the opposite of energy drinks, things that are meant to calm you down. What about if a competitor takes non-prescribed Ritalin? Would that be acceptable?


 
1. There is no way to enforce a ban on substances so the whole argument is pointless anyway.
2. An unfair advantage is something only a few people can do. Caffeine is available to everyone, so if someone gained something from it, it would be a fair advantage.
3. People who take Ritalin/Adderall unprescribed likely do not have a condition that would require them to take it. In these cases it acts like an upper (they are just amphetamines after all) similar to high doses of caffeine. These drugs have their own advantages and disadvantages when it comes to cubing and it cannot be clearly shown that on the whole they are beneficial. Then again, see #1.


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## Rama (Nov 25, 2011)

Coffee = my breakfast <-- You want to deny me my breakfast?
Coffee = my brunch <-- You want to deny me my brunch?
Coffee = my lunch <-- You want to deny me my lunch?
Coffee = my ''nightcap'' <-- You want to deny me my nightcap?


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## ben1996123 (Nov 25, 2011)

You cant stop people.


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## qqwref (Nov 25, 2011)

If there is any advantage to be gained here, it is certainly not an unfair one, considering the incredibly wide availability of caffeine: for only a few dollars (or less) anyone can buy an energy drink, soda, or tea/coffee. Plus, there are many people who drink tea or coffee as part of their daily routine, and forbidding it would give them an unfair disadvantage.

The case of amphetamines/uppers is a little trickier, but at that point we have to think about another issue here: how are we to test for ingested substances? The equipment and testing is expensive (remember, cubing has no money) and time-consuming, especially if you want to prevent the well-known ways of cheating the test. Plus, if you test people beforehand you have to very carefully police them during the competition, and if you test people afterwards you have to ensure that nobody leaves early, and deal with possible retroactive disqualifications, which isn't fun for anyone involved. I'd say it's a big hassle and is only even remotely realistic when very large amounts of money are on the line.


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## Achifaifa (Nov 25, 2011)

Doesn't sound reasonable IMO, unless something or someone proves that those drinks actually affect the results significantly.


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## chrissyD (Nov 25, 2011)

Achifaifa said:


> unless something or someone proves that those drinks actually affect the results significantly.



What would be wrong with energy drinks improving times? Things like lubix are used to improve times so why shouldn't cube lube also be banned?


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## 4. (Nov 25, 2011)

It doesn't give you an unfair advantage if it's easily available to anyone.


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## Achifaifa (Nov 25, 2011)

chrissyD said:


> What would be wrong with energy drinks improving times? Things like lubix are used to improve times so why shouldn't cube lube also be banned?


 
Just to make a comparison (And in my opinion), it would be like using drugs for cycling/running/other sports. If it improves the performance, what's wrong with it? As for lubix and other stuff, there is a difference between making your tools better and using drugs to make yourself better. Even if those drugs were available for everyone it would not be fair. In my opinion cubing, like sports or other competitions, depends on the cube and the cuber's skills. And the only thing that should improve that skill is practice.

In this particular case I don't think caffeine should be banned because, as someone has already said, there are people who take it in a daily basis, and denying them that could result in a worse performance, and because that particular substance does not improve the performance of the rest significantly.


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## elimescube (Nov 25, 2011)

I dislike energy drinks but love coffee/tea, and I don't usually go a day without one or the other. I wouldn't consider caffeine significantly performance enhancing, and since it is a big part of a lot of peoples days it would be unfair to ban it.

One thing I have (rarely) noticed is some individuals tendencies to drink many caffeinated beverages and occasionally become disruptive to others at the competition. This behaviour isn't really fair, but has much more to do with the individual than the substance.

I'm just echoing everyone else here, but whatever.


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## zmikecuber (Nov 25, 2011)

its the cuber, not the caffeine.

no, it shouldnt be banned. what are they going to do? like test to see if people have caffeine in them?

unfair advantages? lol. anything could be an "unfair advantage"... glasses, bright cubesmith stickers etc. etc


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## Tim Major (Nov 25, 2011)

Hoe is it an unfair advantage? If other people wanted energy drinks they can go buy them. I don't think most people see it as an advantage.

And as others have said, how would it be tested.


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## zmikecuber (Nov 25, 2011)

oh my I forgot and drank coffee this morning in the hotel. guess I cant compete in the nationals...  *hides face*

I wonder if anybody will come out and say that caffeine should be banned.... really, that would be interesting.


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## fastcubesolver (Nov 25, 2011)

I think that nothing should be banned, except for music.


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## Muesli (Nov 25, 2011)

fastcubesolver said:


> I think that nothing should be banned, except for music.


 
Lol, why?


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## Thompson (Nov 25, 2011)

Yes if it was possible


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## fastcubesolver (Nov 25, 2011)

There can be certain music that makes you remember certain things. But energy drinks can't. I think it would be a bit rediculous to ban Mountain Dew and Monster because they could "enhance one's performance".


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## SoupFlies (Nov 25, 2011)

I dont even think music should be banned, it just reminds me of how ludicrous my highschool was.

Caffeine will not give enough of an edge to make it unfair in any way shape or form. It has effects on the brain that are positive stimulations, but they will not have a greater benefit than their drawbacks through the jitters, and crashes.

I basically live my life off of caffeine, I need it to get through my day because of how little time I have to spend on sleep, if I went to a comp and was not allowed to compete because of my lifestyle, I would make sure to have a hearty talk with Tyson.

I think banning things from competitions should be put into categories something like this:

Anything that is overly disruptive to other competitors I.E. No pants

Anything that gives you a measurable and noticeable edge over other competitors I.E. Stickerless cubes.

Anything that is considered taking advantage of a system or cheating by having scrambles before hand.


Simple things like this that are the groundwork. Banning individual things because 1 person does not like them or another blah blah is more frustrating than understandable.

I dont know why music is banned. I dont like that rule, I am very musically oriented.
I know why stickerless cubes are banned, and it totally makes sense, even though it is a slight bit silly.

/Rant


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## SoupFlies (Nov 25, 2011)

fastcubesolver said:


> There can be certain music that makes you remember certain things. But energy drinks can't. I think it would be a bit rediculous to ban Mountain Dew and Monster because they could "enhance one's performance".


 
Taking aderall will help with memory and focus, to a greater degree than any music there is.
But it is a prescription drug and is allowed. 
That argument is such bunk.


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## SoupFlies (Nov 25, 2011)

fastcubesolver said:


> There can be certain music that makes you remember certain things. But energy drinks can't. I think it would be a bit rediculous to ban Mountain Dew and Monster because they could "enhance one's performance".


 
Taking aderall will help with memory and focus, to a greater degree than any music there is.
But it is a prescription drug and is allowed. 
That argument is such bunk.


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## RNewms27 (Nov 25, 2011)

As long as it is legal it should not be banned.


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## fastcubesolver (Nov 25, 2011)

Hmm, good point. Music can be distraction to other competitiors, is there a rule against that?


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## PhillipEspinoza (Nov 25, 2011)

I guess instead of unfair advantage I mean would you consider it "cheating" because its not natural? Regardless of whether or not you would necessarily or commonly gain an advantage on speed, kinda like how you cannot take the cube apart during PLL and put it back together even though it would probably be slower and would probably not give you an advantage speed wise. It is obviously considered cheating but I wanna question what not so obvious forms of "cheating" might look like.

The same argument is used against headphones/music. People ask, "What kind of advantage would playing algs over and over again have?" Maybe nothing in terms of speed but maybe something in terms of just solving the cube. At this point I agree with Rowan that looking at this just reveals the inconsistency and arbitrariness of rules such as no headphones.

As far as glasses its already been talked about in similar discussions and it has been decided that glasses PREVENT a disadvantage rather than PROVIDE an unfair one.


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## SoupFlies (Nov 25, 2011)

If the music is played through headphones, I doubt that through the noise of the competition it will get any farther than your judge.
I wish music was allowed at competitions because I am always distracted by someone talking to me or something like that.
Music has always helped me personally focus.
When I learned about that rule I was extremely bummed out because I knew that I would never be doing as well as I can be doing in a competition, while it may not be a huge difference, 2 times it could have been the difference of me making 2nd round or not.


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## Cheese11 (Nov 25, 2011)

Even if it was banned, people could just drink it before going in.


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## Cubetastic (Nov 25, 2011)

I don't think it should be banned but if every single person starts drinking coffe and/or red bull before a competition I might be against it.


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## Sa967St (Nov 25, 2011)

Cubetastic said:


> if every single person starts drinking coffe and/or red bull before a competition I might be against it.


Why?


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## Cubetastic (Nov 25, 2011)

Sa967St said:


> Why?


 
Because then the people who cant are at an unfair advantage and are being singled out.


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## cubernya (Nov 25, 2011)

It's not unfair, they can have it too


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## Cheese11 (Nov 25, 2011)

Cubetastic said:


> Because then the people who cant are at an unfair advantage and are being singled out.


 
Can you not? Like me?


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## Kian (Nov 25, 2011)

For clarification, none of these things are "unfair", as long as rules are applied impartially to all parties it is absolutely "fair." 

Allowing headphones with music would be a gigantic hassle for judges dealing with competitors that can't hear them. In no way, shape, or form should we allow that. 

As for energy drinks, I assume you are using this as an allegory for other things, because not only is this unenforceable, it's obviously capricious.


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## Cubetastic (Nov 25, 2011)

All i know is that I don't drink coffee/energy drinks nor would I ever want to(for energy drinks). Coffee might be a must-have for people in their daily lives and might not be specifically for cubing( or atleast I hope not) So I don't think coffee is a very big problem now that i think about it but Energy drinks for competitions seems alittle out of place to me.


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## Sa967St (Nov 25, 2011)

I just realized that a caffeine ban would also include chocolate, in that case my answer goes from a "NO." to a "NOOO.".



Cubetastic said:


> Because then the people who cant are at an unfair advantage and are being singled out.


Why would that bother you? People who aren't old enough to consume energy drinks don't even need it.


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## cuberkid10 (Nov 25, 2011)

What if someone drank some before the competition. You'd still feel the effects, but nobody can prove that you had some.


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## Yuxuibbs (Nov 26, 2011)

I think it doesn't matter because some people need caffeine to function (caffeine is a drug after all). It's like not allowing someone to eat food before running a marathon or something. 
If people drink too much caffeine they shake a lot and do worse but that's their problem.


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## Cubewarrior (Nov 26, 2011)

And then there's the argument that this is similar to using steroids before running a marathon. I don't think it's effective. Under that logic, why not have everyone use Rubik's Brand cubes?


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## Weston (Nov 26, 2011)

Cubewarrior said:


> And then there's the argument that this is similar to using steroids before running a marathon. I don't think it's effective. Under that logic, why not have everyone use Rubik's Brand cubes?


 
Make everyone wear flip flops


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## TheZenith27 (Nov 26, 2011)

The answer is no.


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## Vincents (Nov 26, 2011)

Reasons against headphones + music:
- A judge cannot tell what you're listening to. You could be playing back algorithms. If plugged into an iPhone during BLD, someone could be telling you what to do. Short of a judge getting a headphone splitter and also listening in, there are too many ways to cheat.
- Distraction. If you're listening to music, how as a judge am I supposed to get your attention? Do I wave my hands in your face? Are we to limit a decibel level on music being played? Just because you may listen to your music quietly (I do) doesn't mean everyone else will.

And do you have to have music to concentrate? You can listen to music before and after you solve. If people are being distracting, put on giant headphones that block out noise just while you solve. As long as they're not plugged in, they shouldn't be a problem.


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## Escher (Nov 26, 2011)

Vincents said:


> Reasons against headphones + music:
> - A judge cannot tell what you're listening to. You could be playing back algorithms. If plugged into an iPhone during BLD, someone could be telling you what to do. Short of a judge getting a headphone splitter and also listening in, there are too many ways to cheat.
> - Distraction. If you're listening to music, how as a judge am I supposed to get your attention? Do I wave my hands in your face? Are we to limit a decibel level on music being played? Just because you may listen to your music quietly (I do) doesn't mean everyone else will.
> 
> And do you have to have music to concentrate? You can listen to music before and after you solve. If people are being distracting, put on giant headphones that block out noise just while you solve. As long as they're not plugged in, they shouldn't be a problem.


 
1a) Playing back algorithms is practically a distraction, at least for anybody even close to the top 500 in any event. 
b) 'no use of personal music players is allowed during BLD events'

2a) 'If a competitor opts to use headphones and goes over the time limit for inspection, their solve will be DNFed' 
Should encourage people to turn the noise down a bit. 

You don't 'have' to have music. It's just nice. I also don't think that mp3 players should be banned for a reason that would only give an advantage to the very beginners in any event. When cubing progresses in a few years time we will no doubt have invitation/pre-qualified events where having algorithms read out to any competitor would be no help at all.


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## drewsopchak (Nov 26, 2011)

I consume approximately 250 mg of caffeine per day. Honestly, it would be extremely impracticable to enforce such a a regulation. Coffee is great.... nuff said.


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## Gaétan Guimond (Nov 26, 2011)

thackernerd said:


> No.








That's It, that's All.


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## Meep (Nov 26, 2011)

I always have an energy drink the morning of a competition ):


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## musicninja17 (Nov 26, 2011)

Guimond strikes again. 

This whole argument (however stupid) is based on the assumption that caffeine enhances your performance.
I can't perform when i'm hungry either...i get shaky. Can't eat a tuna sandwich I guess.
Water neither. Because that hydrates the brain and muscles and prevents cramping. That's enhancing, isn't it?

Yeah for whoever said that they couldn't have energy drinks...yeah? That's your problem. That doesn't make it unfair.

Caffeine in doses to help you stay awake makes you feel pretty normal.
Overdoing caffeine makes you jittery. [sarcasm] Obviously a bonus when you're trying to concentrate. [/s]


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## fastcubesolver (Nov 26, 2011)

It affects people in different ways, I don't think that it would make such a huge difference as to be banned. 

And you shouldn't be distracted by someone talking to you, that's also against the WCA regulations.


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## Sa967St (Nov 26, 2011)

fastcubesolver said:


> I don't think that it would make such a huge difference as to be banned.


What makes you think that?


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## Hodari (Nov 26, 2011)

Yeah, I can just see it now...
Dec 12 2012 - Feliks Zemdegs achieves the first official sub-5 solve along with setting 10 other world records during competition
Dec 21 2012 - WCA strips Feliks of his records after a member of the Melbourne Australia Lame Cubing Organization admits to giving him "the green" and "the fizz" prior to the competition


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## TMOY (Nov 26, 2011)

Definitely against. I really need my morning coffee.
And honestly I don't think it enhances my performances, it just allows me to get normal times instead of bad ones in the morning. Especially at coms which put big BLD/multi as the first event of the day (which I think is a bad idea but unfortunately is common practice) I don't want to fall asleep in the middle of a solve.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Nov 26, 2011)

Can we start a new poll? Banning the use of Feliks in WCA competitions because he IS an unfair advantage himself.


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## MichaelErskine (Nov 26, 2011)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> I was wondering as another year of regulations approaches, what you all thought about the use of energy drinks and caffeine by competitors at competitions."



Is the plan to come up with ridiculous, unenforceable regulations? I think we need to get real - we don't have the resources of the IOC!


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## elimescube (Nov 26, 2011)

Take NZT: produce optimal solution during inspection.


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## Owen (Nov 26, 2011)

I think such beverages should be banned everywhere, but realistically, I don't think it presents and unfair advantage. It is the same sort of advantage one's cubing hardware gives. Competitors are responsible for their own hardware, including their bodies.


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## Sa967St (Nov 26, 2011)

Cheese11 said:


> Cubetastic said:
> 
> 
> > Because then the people who cant are at an unfair advantage and are being singled out.
> ...


 Why, are you pregnant?


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## mrpotatoman14 (Nov 26, 2011)

You might as well disallow speed cubes because they give an advantage don't they.


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## Tim Major (Nov 26, 2011)

mrpotatoman14 said:


> You might as well disallow speed cubes because they give an advantage don't they.


 
This argument has already been addressed many times.

Read the thread.


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Nov 27, 2011)

It's funny, cause you were drinking an energy drink at Caltech haha!


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## thackernerd (Nov 27, 2011)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> Can we start a new poll? Banning the use of Feliks in WCA competitions because he IS an unfair advantage himself.



That would be like banning Michael Jackson from singing.


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## jskyler91 (Nov 27, 2011)

thackernerd said:


> That would be like banning Michael Jackson from singing.


 
He sort of self banned himself by dying....


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## fastcubesolver (Nov 27, 2011)

Sa967St said:


> What makes you think that?


 
I mean that I don't think that energy drinks would affect people's times to really make a difference.


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## Sa967St (Nov 27, 2011)

fastcubesolver said:


> I mean that I don't think that energy drinks would affect people's times to really make a difference.


You'd be surprised how much it can.


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## fastcubesolver (Nov 27, 2011)

Sa967St said:


> You'd be surprised how much it can.


 
I would think that energy drinks would make you jittery, which could/would lead to mistakes, and bad times. I don't know, it's different for everyone.


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## thackernerd (Nov 27, 2011)

Cubewarrior said:


> I really hope you're joking.



Of course he's joking.


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## cubeflip (Nov 27, 2011)

No. I don't think it's worth the trouble. Even if they were banned, people would still drink them at competitions. All they would have to do is walk outside, drink their "performance enhancer", then walk back in and do their solves...

EDIT: wow this thread is only 8 pages long and we're already digressing to Michael Jackson being dead and banning Feliks...


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## riffz (Nov 27, 2011)

cubeflip said:


> EDIT: wow this thread is only *8 pages long*


 
2 pages long for me 

My 2 cents: Even if we should ban it (I don't think we should), we can't enforce it anway.


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## Michael Womack (Nov 27, 2011)

I say no because the caffeine could effect you solving times.


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## Vincents (Nov 27, 2011)

Escher said:


> 1a) Playing back algorithms is practically a distraction, at least for anybody even close to the top 500 in any event.
> b) 'no use of personal music players is allowed during BLD events'
> 
> 2a) 'If a competitor opts to use headphones and goes over the time limit for inspection, their solve will be DNFed'
> ...



Regulations aren't only applicable to the Top 500 finishers; they're meant to be applied to people who are sitting down and solving the cube for the first time as well.


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## Hershey (Nov 27, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> I say no because the caffeine could effect you solving times.


 
How do you know?


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## Michael Womack (Nov 27, 2011)

Hershey said:


> How do you know?


 
I drink coca-cola alot and it helps some.


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## Cheese11 (Nov 30, 2011)

Sa967St said:


> Why, are you pregnant?


 
Yeee! My mommy no let me  But I still do sometimes.


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## Cool Frog (Nov 30, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> I drink coca-cola alot and it helps some.


 
How do you know it is helping you?

taking one piece of information and drawing a large conclusion is badmkay.


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## cuberkid10 (Nov 30, 2011)

Michael Womack said:


> I drink coca-cola alot and it helps some.


 
I wear shoes alot and it helps some... shoes should be banned.

It might just be thought effecting your times. You think "Coca Cola makes me do better", and it can actually make you perform better, not the Coca Cola.


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## purplepirate (Nov 30, 2011)

of course it shouldn't be banned. even if it was, it would be near impossible to enforce


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## waffle=ijm (Nov 30, 2011)

http://5150juice.com/32oz-Reg.html
Been using this to pull nighters. but overall, I haven't really felt that it assist my cubing.


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## TimMc (Dec 13, 2011)

No, but I've held competitions where food and drink have been banned in the venue. This makes breaks and lunch time important features of the schedule.

It's also nice when competitors aren't spilling slushies everywhere...

Tim.


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## tx789 (Dec 13, 2011)

I could cause the opposite you get more lock ups and try to go faster


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## TimMc (Dec 13, 2011)

tx789 said:


> I could cause the opposite you get more lock ups and try to go faster



What do you mean?

Tim.


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## s3rzz (Dec 13, 2011)

Energy drinks........ Meth...... Close enought right?


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