# BLD HELP!!! (Help With Pochmann Method)



## KubeKid73 (Mar 9, 2009)

I saw badmephisto's video. It wasn't as great as I expected from one of his videos. I also went here, http://www.stefan-pochmann.de/spocc/blindsolving/3x3/old.php, to try to get a better understanding of it. I really need a great video that can walk me through how to solve it slowly step by step. Once I can solve it using Pochmann, I can use any method that I want for memorization. I just need to understand Pochmann first. Thanks!


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## byu (Mar 9, 2009)

Use solvethecube.110mb.com

It's not a video, but it's very, very good. I used that to help me with BLD with pochmann.


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## hr.mohr (Mar 9, 2009)

eric limeback also has some nice videos on pochmann (M2 for edges and pochmann for corners)


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 9, 2009)

byu: Thank. It helped a little. I think most of my problem is not knowing the perms yet.  And how do I remember all of the set up moves? Those and the perms are maybe the only things keeping me from learning BLD.
hr.mohr: Link?

Is it edges, parity, corners, or corners, parity, edges?


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## hr.mohr (Mar 9, 2009)

Do a search on youtube, if you can't find it you wont be able to learn BLD 
BLD is not hard but it takes a lot of practice and effort.


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## Gparker (Mar 9, 2009)

i learned from badmephistos vid and it was very easy. and the setup moves should only me 3 moves max, grintoth has a tutorial and its the same method, and only 3 algs and 2 are pretty much the same


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## HASH-CUBE (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi, if you want to learn how to solve the cube blind step by step (solw) then watch this (go along with the 7 parts)

part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMe4G_3HMI8

after you practice watch badmephisto's tutorial to get some usful tricks, but keep the same memorization system u learned in this tutorial i linked it to you.

i learned from that video as well.

hopefully you'll learn in 3 days at maximum, i got it in 2-3 days 

thanks


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## Stefan (Mar 10, 2009)

KubeKid73 said:


> how do I remember all of the set up moves?


Um, they're obvious? And don't need to be remembered?


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 10, 2009)

Not really. I forget how to reverse it. And I don't think I use the ones that I should. I just use what I can think of and they're usually really long. I don't think I would be able to remember them while actually BLD solving. Is there anything easier than M2 for edges and Pochmann for corners?


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## byu (Mar 10, 2009)

KubeKid73 said:


> And how do I remember all of the set up moves?



Like Stefan said, they're intuitive, but if you want, learn patterns. All of the ones that start with D can be done with

(d, d', d2, or nothing) (L2) (T-Perm) (Reverse Setup)

All the ones that end with D can be done with

(D, D', or nothing) (l' or l) (J-Perm) (Reverse Setup)

All the ones starting with U can be done without setup moves

LU can be done with L d' L

BU and FU can be done with

(l or l') (J-Perm) (Reverse Setup)

Middle Layer edges can be done with

(D, D', D2, or nothing) (L or L') (T Perm) (Reverse Setup)



KubeKid73 said:


> Is it edges, parity, corners, or corners, parity, edges?



Choose the way you want it. I did edges-parity-corners when I did old pochmann.

I hope that helped.


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

So there's nothing easier than Pochmann and M2? Although some people (maybe?) say Pochmann for edges too, but I think M2 is easier.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

i did corners edges, but i get what you mean now by setup moves, first you have to learn the algorithms until you get comfortable with them. my problem was i didnt etheir and i was really foccusing on getting the algorithm right and then forgot the setup. but that didnt last long. go do a big average since your going to probably run into all of the plls at least once and get comfortable with them

EDIT: if you get M2 then learn it, old pochmann full is easier because usually people dont have to learn new algorithms, and for M2 you have to keep track of the m slice but its not that hard


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## byu (Mar 11, 2009)

I say that the "easiest" BLD method is pochmann for corners and edges, although M2 is pretty easy also.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

byu said:


> I say that the "easiest" BLD method is pochmann for corners and edges, although M2 is pretty easy also.



yes it is, once you learn the M slice algs its very fast. hows M2/R2 working for you?


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

I don't really understand Pochmann edges. I think its just the setup moves though. I'll give it another try. Especially since I have the T Perm memorized from that little bit that I was using Pochmann for edges.


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## byu (Mar 11, 2009)

No! Don't do that.
If M2 works for you, use it. It's much faster than pochmann edges (in my opinion)

@Gparker: M2/R2 is really fast, I'm not sub-2 average yet, but I'm coming closer. And then occasionally I'll get an unexpected sub-1:30 or 4:xx solve. That inconsistency is the only downside I've seen to using R2. It all has to do with which R-slice corners you have to shoot to.


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

No. I'm just trying it out again. I may be able to understand it. And I don't really like M2 that much anyway. I may use Pochmann, I may not. I'm just experimenting.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

byu said:


> No! Don't do that.
> If M2 works for you, use it. It's much faster than pochmann edges (in my opinion)
> 
> @Gparker: M2/R2 is really fast, I'm not sub-2 average yet, but I'm coming closer. And then occasionally I'll get an unexpected sub-1:30 or 4:xx solve. That inconsistency is the only downside I've seen to using R2. It all has to do with which R-slice corners you have to shoot to.



Byu: when are you going to learn freestyle? when you get like sub 1:45? thats what i plan on doing


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## byu (Mar 11, 2009)

Gparker said:


> byu said:
> 
> 
> > No! Don't do that.
> ...



I used to use freestyle edges for about a week, but I found I spent too much time thinking about the algs I have to do instead of just actually doing them, so I used M2 instead. I plan on re-attempting at maybe sub-1:30, but it all depends. I may find that I like M2/R2 so much that I use it until I average sub-minute (long time from now)


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

byu said:


> Gparker said:
> 
> 
> > byu said:
> ...



if you keep working on your execution you will be there in no time because your memo is worth sub minute and a half for your execution


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## byu (Mar 11, 2009)

My memo has actually become significantly slower (by maybe 10-20 seconds) recently because of my transition to M2/R2. I'm used to UR and UBL as buffers, and not DF and DFR


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

Okay, I just made my almost first solve using Pochmann. The only problems I had is that two pieces weren't correctly oriented and I somehow messed up the corners, so I had to redo those. And I had to do a J (b) perm for the last layer also because I think I didn't account for the parity, right? I'm doing corners then edges. Any tips on not messing up the corners, and how do I fix the orientation of the two pieces? They were these two pieces / when facing the up face.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

Sometimes when your on the last layer youll just have a J perm, but its not unexpected, when you memo youll see. when a peice is mis oriented, you act like breaking into a new cycle and then you reshoot it with the correct orientation


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

But its on the top layer next to the buffer corners w/e you call them. Would I use l to set it up to shoot it?


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## byu (Mar 11, 2009)

KubeKid73 said:


> Okay, I just made my almost first solve using Pochmann. The only problems I had is that two pieces weren't correctly oriented and I somehow messed up the corners, so I had to redo those. And I had to do a J (b) perm for the last layer also because I think I didn't account for the parity, right? I'm doing corners then edges. Any tips on not messing up the corners, and how do I fix the orientation of the two pieces? They were these two pieces / when facing the up face.



I am assuming the two pieces are edges. This can occur if an edge is misoriented before you begin, but in the correct place. It is always good to check before starting to make sure there are none, and if there are some (which happens a lot) remember them. Later, flip them with the buffer piece (UR)


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

if the orange green is flipped, so will your buffer, you shoot to the orange of orange green and then the green of green orange


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

I got it. Last night I had my first actual Pochmann solve, but I had to go back and fix the corners. And since I mess up on the edges sometimes and it messes up the corners, I'm starting edges then corners so nothing gets messed up. Then once I can sub-5 (avg of 5) at Pochmann without any mess-ups, then I'll start BLD. This is going to take a long time.
I just had my first full solve!!! Nothing got messed up. Edges first is better.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

so you actually memod? or did you just do it with your eyes open. if you did it with your eyes open then why wait till your sub 5? as soon as i learned a different memo system i went at it and got it


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

No eyes open. And I'll wait so that I can actually solve it. If I can barely solve it with my eyes open, its a waste to try it BLD. I just chose 5 randomly. Is 5 minutes using Pochmann like an equivalent to 2 minutes Fridrich?


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

oh, do only a couple of more solves and then learn memorization. dont let it matter how long it takes to solve it blindfolded. my first was about 13 minutes and now im down to 7:30 consistantly. ill give you some links for memo

This guy uses M2,old pochmann but the memorization is still the same
Corners:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3dh8TuYu8
Edges:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snlPUuaAMD4&feature=related
Example solve:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTlC1I93Dzo&feature=channel

after you master pochmann i reccomend watching his tutorial for M2

And for 5 minutes pochmann is around 2 minutes maybe with fridrich


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

I already tried M2 (I was using his tutorial) and I like Pochmann for edges better. Do you have any other links for full Pochmann memo?


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

well the memorization is still the same, just a different buffer, ill give you another link and he explains the same method with old pochmann very well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkkLN6_x8Mc


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

I actually think I can memo the edges myself. Its just which sticker you have to memo that goes into the UL position, right? And I can use the A-X thing that I think Eric teaches. I just have to watch his corners video, unless its somewhat of the same simple thing.


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## 04mucklowd (Mar 11, 2009)

erik limeback's tutorial is good


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## cookingfat (Mar 11, 2009)

04mucklowd said:


> erik limeback's tutorial is good



Indeed. I learnt the classic pochmann method from badmephisto's video, but I much prefer the memo system that eric limeback teaches in his video.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

his corners is tapping and letters, if you watch it youll see what im talking about. did you watch the link i just gave you? that explains exactly what your question is and its the exact same thing eric limeback does


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm doing a few more solves first.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

okay, when your comfortable with solving with eyes open, learn the memo. thats exactly what i did. and remember when you actually attempt, take as long as you need. you ever hear of bob burton from cubewhiz? his first try took him over 80 minutes! some people get over 30 but its succesful


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

Okay. So far I haven't had any parity. Am I doing something that makes parity impossible, or is it just luck? I did have corner parity where they weren't rotated correctly. But nothing with edges.


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## cookingfat (Mar 11, 2009)

Gparker said:


> okay, when your comfortable with solving with eyes open, learn the memo. thats exactly what i did. and remember when you actually attempt, take as long as you need. you ever hear of bob burton from cubewhiz? his first try took him over 80 minutes! some people get over 30 but its succesful



the first success I timed took about 18 minutes. The first actual solve I did was probably over 25. 

Before I did my first solve, I used to practice execution by writing down the memo, however you do it (AE FX GL etc) and solving the cube under a table or towel while reading the memo. You could do this for corners and edges separately at first, then try together. After you are comfortable doing the actual solve without looking at the cube, you could then progress to trying to fully memorize edges and then solve just the edges blindfolded. Then do corners on their own, then try both. 

At first, do not even worry about time, like Gparker said, just take as long as you need. Getting faster just happens the more you do.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

parity isnt when corners are twisted. parity happens when you do an odd number of swaps that means 2 corners are swapped from what you memod, if you have white top red front. whatver corner was in the WOB spot is switched with the WBR, and your execution will be wrong and thats why you need to do the R perm


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

cookingfat said:


> Gparker said:
> 
> 
> > okay, when your comfortable with solving with eyes open, learn the memo. thats exactly what i did. and remember when you actually attempt, take as long as you need. you ever hear of bob burton from cubewhiz? his first try took him over 80 minutes! some people get over 30 but its succesful
> ...



i did that i think once about writing it down, thats a good idea i forgot to mention. one night i was just wondering if tonight could be the night,the night i had my first blindsolve, i wanted to see if i could do it and i did


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

I will try that. I get messed up on the (ONLY TWO!!!) algorithms sometimes. Lol. And I'm not exactly sure if I will be able to remember the whole memo the first time. Plus the only blindfold in the house is my sister's sleeping mask. Lol. Its a sheep.
EDIT: Oh, well they were twisted, so I used the URU'R' etc. algorithms to fix it. It would work if I just swapped the two twisted ones, and then swapped them back the right way, right?


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## cookingfat (Mar 11, 2009)

KubeKid73 said:


> Okay. So far I haven't had any parity. Am I doing something that makes parity impossible, or is it just luck? I did have corner parity where they weren't rotated correctly. But nothing with edges.



I think you've just been lucky so far. Basically if you memorise an odd number of edges or corners, you will need to do the parity fix in between when you solve. (it doesn't matter whether you do edges first or corners first)



KubeKid73 said:


> I will try that. I get messed up on the (ONLY TWO!!!) algorithms sometimes. Lol. And I'm not exactly sure if I will be able to remember the whole memo the first time. Plus the only blindfold in the house is my sister's sleeping mask. Lol. Its a sheep.
> EDIT: Oh, well they were twisted, so I used the URU'R' etc. algorithms to fix it. *It would work if I just swapped the two twisted ones, and then swapped them back the right way, right?*



Yes it would. 

Also, you need to be fully comfortable with the algorithms you use, someone else already said that the algorithms need to be stored in your hands, not in your head.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

you could always use a jacket as a blindfold, i still dont have one and i use a belt or a headband


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

You mean one of those jackets that zip all the way up the hood? Those are awesome. And parity is just *R U2 R'* U2 R B' R' U' R U R B R2 U, or is it U' F2 U M2 U' F2 U and then U and then *R U2 R'* etc.? Or is the second one just for M2?


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

The R perm is used for both but U' F2 U is for M2, you can do a U then the R perm and if you do that you dont need to do the last U on the end of it


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

K Thanx.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

man, i wish i would have had this much help with mine  but i didnt know about this website before and there is alot of info on it

on topic, good luck


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

I just failed.  IDK if I would have done it correctly if I didn't, but I accidentally turned the cube without knowing it.  It took 57 minutes. I hate the memo part because I don't know if I'm doing it correctly.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

keep trying, im sure you sould have had it without the cuberotations


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

I did it again and I know where I went wrong this time. I accidentally did D' instead of D for reversing a setup move and I forgot the R perm for parity. Once more and I should get it. It took 24 minutes this time.


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## byu (Mar 11, 2009)

Try this. Time edges first, then time again and solve the corners. Post your results.


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

BLD? With memo time? I wasn't really timing, but before I started memo I wrote down the time and wen I finished I just figured out my time.


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## byu (Mar 11, 2009)

No, solve sighted, like you normally do, but just check the clock between edges and corners.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

see your times get quicker the more you do it! and do what byu said


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

4:30 for edges. 1:43 for corners, but it was really lucky. And I don't care too much about times. As long as its under 10 minutes, I just want to show off to my friends. Lol.


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## Gparker (Mar 11, 2009)

haha ive done that before, if you practice you can get it under 5. and now i guess you can try again


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 11, 2009)

I need to use a separate cube to figure out which pieces I need to shoot to. How can I fix that, and do you have any tips on how to figure out which ones to shoot to faster?


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## Gparker (Mar 12, 2009)

what? i dont understand. why do you need to use a different cube?


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 12, 2009)

Because its hard to figure out where all the pieces are going, so I actually do it on another cube and then write it down for my memo.


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## Gparker (Mar 12, 2009)

oh okayjust practice and itll get easier


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 12, 2009)

Really? Okay...


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## Gparker (Mar 12, 2009)

well im not completely understanding your question so all i can say is practice 

lol


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## tim (Mar 12, 2009)

KubeKid73 said:


> Because its hard to figure out where all the pieces are going, so I actually do it on another cube and then write it down for my memo.



Why don't you just look at the centers?


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## Gparker (Mar 12, 2009)

exactly tim!

if you have a set color scheme you should know where every color is

i use white top, red front. by that i know green is on left, blue is on right, and yellow on the bottem


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 12, 2009)

Okay I'm confusing. Its hard to remember which pieces I already "moved" in the memo.


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## Gparker (Mar 12, 2009)

you mean setup moves? or when your at the end and you have to break into a new cycle and you dont know if youve already done all the other edges?


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 12, 2009)

Yes, when I break into a new cycle.


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## Gparker (Mar 12, 2009)

ahhh i see what you mean now, i had that problem but my first ansewer is all that can help, the more you practice, the more youll know, the equation
#items = (#wrong cubies) + (#cycles) - 2 will certinly help. or you could keep your finger over an edge youve already done


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## byu (Mar 12, 2009)

I actually have never done that formula in BLD. I just take the number 11 for edges, 7 for corners. For each correct piece (even if its flipped) I subtract 1. Then, I make sure that all the others add up to the remaining number, and breaking into a new cycle, the first piece doesn't count double.


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## Gparker (Mar 12, 2009)

i havnt etheir, i dont even know it by heart because knowing becomes automatic, i just gave it to him for help


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 13, 2009)

Okay. I just got a great one. I was only like 3 corners off, and two were oriented wrong. (I forget how to memo if you need to do that.) And two edges were switched. I think it was because I had parity. What is the exact alg that you do for parity?
EDIT: And memo was only 9 minutes and I was doing stiff here during it. And solving was only 7 minutes. If I tried to, I could probably get maybe under 10-13 minutes.


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## byu (Mar 13, 2009)

R Perm. When I used old pochmann, I did this:

y R U2 R' U2 R B' R' U' R U l U R2 F x y'


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 13, 2009)

Eff. I've been using the one that Eric says. R U2 R' U2 R B' R' U' R U R B R2 U.


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## byu (Mar 13, 2009)

That's the same one that I use, except mine has a double layer turn that speeds it up a little (in my opinion)


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 13, 2009)

They're not the same. Mine cycles the corners and edges clockwise and yours switches these /| The edges / and the corners |.


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## Gparker (Mar 13, 2009)

you memo mis oriented corners by remembering c and a

A=anti clockwise
C=clockwise

Edit: BYUs R was the exact same as erics R


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## KubeKid73 (Mar 13, 2009)

I thought there was some equation for it. Oh well.


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## Gparker (Mar 13, 2009)

yea lol, youll get it next time


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