# Volunteers for High Range IQ Test needed



## F.P. (Sep 6, 2008)

Hello!

We are working on a high-range IQ Test and need people to test it.
Currently the test consists of 15 sequence items.

More items will be added but first we want people to the test the current set of items. There is no time limit, calculator/internet everything is allowed, even though there is almost no knowledge besides simple math needed.
Don't make any solutions public.

If you are interested, PM me and I will send you the test.
When sending me the solutions, please add the following information:

Solutions+explanation for every item.
Age/Gender/Other standardized/normed IQ Tests you have taken+scores (we act extremely discreet).


Volunteers will be allowed to do the final version of the test and get it scored for free. Since the final test version (which will consist of way more items) will be properly normed and used as admission test for a few high IQ societies, you might be interested in it.

You should spend more than a day for the test though. Give it at least 4-7 days or even more. 
The items might be very different in terms of difficulty...as of now, there might be some items which are unsolvable with the information given. We already tested the items on several members of High IQ societies and the majority of the items were solved.

For any further questions or requesting the test, PM me.

Thanks in advance!


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## Dene (Sep 6, 2008)

Ummm... all based on maths? That doesn't sound like a very accurate judge of IQ.

EDIT: Sorry, that doesn't sound like what I'm trying to say... is it all based on maths? In which case it would not be very accurate.


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## DAE_JA_VOO (Sep 6, 2008)

Yeah, no "IQ" test can be accurate if it's based completely on mathematics.

Nevertheless, drop me a PM, i'd like to have a look.


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## StachuK1992 (Sep 7, 2008)

I would also like to take a look.


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## Pedro (Sep 7, 2008)

me too, please


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## Dene (Sep 7, 2008)

Oh for sure, doing it would be great fun


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## waffle=ijm (Sep 7, 2008)

Might be fun. me too then


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## pcharles93 (Sep 7, 2008)

I'd like to take this test also. It'll be nice to actually have to think about something other than simple school topics and other teens' crises.


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## Faz (Sep 7, 2008)

yep. me too.


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## Lucas Garron (Sep 7, 2008)

DAE_JA_VOO said:


> Nevertheless, drop me a PM, i'd like to have a look.





Pedro said:


> me too, please





waffle=ijm said:


> Might be fun. me too then





pcharles93 said:


> I'd like to take this test also.





fazrulz said:


> yep. me too.





F.P. said:


> PM me


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## DavidWoner (Sep 7, 2008)

Lucas Garron said:


> DAE_JA_VOO said:
> 
> 
> > Nevertheless, drop me a PM, i'd like to have a look.
> ...



since i followed directions does that mean i win? was following directions actually part of the test? was the IQ test just a cover for the real test, which was to discover who could follow directions? Will Sharon's Husband Jeff ever wake up from his coma? Tune in next week to find out on the next episode of "As the Cube Turns"


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## F.P. (Sep 7, 2008)

Thanks to everyone who is interested and willing to try. 

The test is non-verbal and it's all about pattern recognition.
I said that only basic/simple math is needed...so 1+1=2 will do it. 

So, everyone here got the "tools" to solve the items.

There are extremely difficult IQ tests out there which aren't solvable with the typical "school mathematics". If anyone is interested in such a test you may contact me as well.


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## malcolm (Sep 9, 2008)

Hmm I'd like to take a look too


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## F.P. (Sep 9, 2008)

Just PM me then. 


There will be a second volunteer set finished soon and we started working on the spatial part of the test (this will take longer though).

So anyone who is interested in the second set of items may already contact me or mention it when sending the solutions for set one.


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## fw (Sep 9, 2008)

F.P. said:


> There are extremely difficult IQ tests out there which aren't solvable with the typical "school mathematics". If anyone is interested in such a test you may contact me as well.


So someone who is extremely intelligent, but has no knowledge in university level math, will fail that test? IQ tests suck. They have no expressiveness or significance at all. Since when does high intelligence imply high math skills (or the other way around)?


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## F.P. (Sep 9, 2008)

fw said:


> F.P. said:
> 
> 
> > There are extremely difficult IQ tests out there which aren't solvable with the typical "school mathematics". If anyone is interested in such a test you may contact me as well.
> ...



Well, the test I mentioned above actually requires some "above average" math skills. 
But the test isn't developed by me and I'm not related to it in any way...I only mentioned it because some people here would probably prefer such a test over the test I'm (and others are) creating.
That you need some math skills for this test doesn't mean that everyone who has math skills can solve the items...there is way more needed for it.
The test is made for people with a high IQ who are mathemtically gifted.

It doesn't measure general intelligence though.

Most people (especially people in high IQ societies) believe that intelligence is more about pattern recognition than about finding associations between words or solving some math problems. That's why most societies prefer non-verbal and (if possible) culture-free tests.


Tests like the one I'm working on test general problem solving skills, pattern recognition and creativity. 
There are some similar tests out there and some of them are standardized and therefore they know that only people who are really "above average" get a good score on these tests.

There is no point in seriously trying a high range IQ test if you haven't clearly scored above average on another standardized IQ test.
In the end, most items in the majority of the tests will be just too hard for an average person to get a good score. Some people don't even manage to get the minium score in tests in order to get some kind of value.

I understand your criticism...I criticize IQ tests as well but the math test I mentioned above is ment to be for mathematically gifted people who want a real challenge...probably it's rather "brain masturbation" than IQ-testing, that might be true.


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## fw (Sep 9, 2008)

I just dont see the point in testing the intelligence if there does not even seem to be a general "definition" of what intelligence is.


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## F.P. (Sep 9, 2008)

Basically there is; the problem is just that everyone is making up an own definition, ignoring that there actually already is a definition.

Most people think that individual with a pretty big knowledge are very intelligent.
Go to a quiz show, answer some stupid questions and if you win you will be considered as an outstanding/very intelligent person by like half the world. 

But it's about a certain ability, mainly about problem-sovlving and "thinking strategies". People with a high IQ also think faster than the average person; they don't have to think different, they are just faster.
It's mainly our short-term memory which decides if we can solve items in a test.

And it can't be a coincidence that outstanding people always score above average in such tests...it doesn't work the other way around though; not everyone scoring really high on a test has to be an outstanding person...there is a difference between a highly intelligent person and a genius.
Genius has way more to do with creativity than with intelligence...though for outstanding performances, one needs a good amount of both.


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## fw (Sep 9, 2008)

F.P. said:


> it can't be a coincidence


Why not?



F.P. said:


> outstanding people always score above average


How do you know? Did you test everybody?

Sorry, I am just messing with you. Ignore me, this discussion is pointless..


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## F.P. (Sep 9, 2008)

Haha...well, if that's they way you want to argument.
As soon as someone brings the problem of induction in a discussion it really is pointless.

This way you can make any scientific topic inane. 
Of course everything is based on experience only... 

Highly gifted kids who are conspicuous in school or even earlier, can read and do simple math (for example) at a very young age etc. score high on such tests while other kids don't.


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## Stefan (Sep 9, 2008)

F.P. said:


> The test is made for people with a high IQ who are mathemtically gifted.


Why say "gifted" and not "skilled"? Because I need to get the necessary math skill/knowledge as a gift and can't get it by working for it? Or why did you choose that word?


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## F.P. (Sep 9, 2008)

Well, everyone can study maths and get "skills", but still there si a difference between people who had the same maths-education. One is more gifted than the other one...that's what I meant.

So the problems of this test can't be solved by everyone who has math skills (at least I guess it's supposed to be that way...(as I said - it's not a test I developed or something).


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## Stefan (Sep 9, 2008)

You avoided the question of why you say "gifted" instead of "skilled". And what types of "gifts" do you mean when you say that? Mensa Germany btw often uses the term "highly gifted" and it's one reason I don't like them much. I never saw them justify that term.


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## F.P. (Sep 9, 2008)

It's not only the german Mensa. "Highly gifted" people are what we call "Hochbegabte" in german. So, you are born with that, it's a gift from nature...everyone is different and some people are mathematically gifted, some are gifted when it comes to certain sports and it's just easier for them compared to others.

Skills are something you can get by practice/studying etc. ...at least that's what I mean. So maybe there is just some kind of misunderstanding since english isn't my mother tongue.


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## AvGalen (Sep 9, 2008)

Please, not the talent versus practice discussion again!

Before you actually take an IQ-test you should be able to answer this question: "What will be the average score of the tested people?"
If you can answer that correctly it MIGHT be ok to take an IQ-test. Otherwise you just don't understand what the result means.


Spoiler



100


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## Stefan (Sep 9, 2008)

Arnaud, not all IQ-tests are that way. You do realize this thread is about a "high range IQ test", right? Average or somewhat above average people shouldn't even be taking such a test, its purpose is to differentiate people who already achieved high results at a "normal IQ test" which is intended for everybody but isn't capable to differentiate at high ranges. So I disagree with your number above. The people tested with this should have a far higher IQ than that.


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## Swoncen (Sep 9, 2008)

I've done some points on the test and it was very easy. I mean you need no math.. just because there are a lot of numbers does not mean that you need alot of math. you should be able to count to 10 and use a calculator. =)

I don't know if my answers are correct, but I was sitting for like 10-15 minutes and solved 5 points. It's all about patterns.. so maybe some people have advantages and I really think so because they have experiences in such things and are able to think about possible solutions. I work at the University of Technology in Vienna at the Pattern Recognition and Image Processing Group and I'm really no genius and I don't think that I'm very gifted like "Hochbegabte". I just know how to visualize the things and then the solution is easier to see. There is definitely a point which is not clear. At least mathematically.. but I think this point is the only point to show your IQ because while solving the previous points you may know what the author meant. In terms of numers like (e.g. IQ=150), an IQ test can never be accurate but it can show some differences.

I do it just for fun and I really thank F.P. for that Quiz. =)


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## Swoncen (Sep 9, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> Arnaud, not all IQ-tests are that way. You do realize this thread is about a "high range IQ test", right? Average or somewhat above average people shouldn't even be taking such a test, its purpose is to differentiate people who already achieved high results at a "normal IQ test" which is intended for everybody but isn't capable to differentiate at high ranges. So I disagree with your number above. The people tested with this should have a far higher IQ than that.



Yes, I also think so. Usual IQ tests include silly questions and you have to do it within a time limit.


I have a question: Since the IQ changes over years, there must be a factor like experience, knowledge and so on.. F.P. can you tell me something about this?


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## F.P. (Sep 9, 2008)

Hi!

Well, some of the items on this set are easy...the easier items will be removed from the test. So, everything is in the testing phase; we need to find out if there are items which are too easy for this test and items which are probably not solvable with the information given (or items which allow more than one clear solution/more than one relevant solution).

The test will contain about 100 items, the set you got here is only the first volunteer set. And there will be a spatial part too...people will be able to do one of the parts only too of course.

With above average we mean an IQ at about 130 with SD 15, which is about 2% of the population.


It's said that the IQ can "change" (develop) until an individual is 25 years old (approx.); most of the scientists agree that there is a hereditary factor and a environmental factor and the last one may influence the actual IQ value of an individual. 
But since the IQ is measured with tests, it's also proven that if one person takes two IQ tests, with certain time between the two tests, the IQ result changes. The difference between the two results might be even more drastically, if an individual takes two different IQ tests with a certain time between them.

That's actually because there are different types of standardized IQ tests.
So you have pure matrice-tests (like the Raven Matrices Test) and tests (like the IST) which contain matrices, sequences, verbal items and mental calculation...some even contain general knowledge tests and memory tests (I guess you know that these are things one can easily practice and don't really have anything to do with IQ).

Such tests are there because when the IQ was invented (actually it wasn't even called IQ at that point) it was only there to test if a child was ready for school/ready for a certain class...actually Binet invented that. When Stern came up with the whole IQ-thing, Binet dissociated from it since he didn't like the idea of adding up some numbers and getting an IQ value from that.


So there are differences between certain testresults because there are different tests out there which have items which are easy to practice and because the tests have completely different items (and therefore they aren't measuring the same thing) rather than something like experience or practice.

You can only practice within your own potential.
Otherwise you would be able to rasie your IQ by 100 points with practice.
The differences between IQ testresults are in the 7-15 points area, while people who are scoring in the average range are more likely to have higher result when taking there second test than people who already scored quite high in their first test.

"Brainjogging", and all these practice books won't really help you to rise your IQ drastically.

Because of different SD, different items, validity etc. it's a coincidence if an indivual gets the same score in two tests.


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## F.P. (Sep 12, 2008)

By the way...sounds interesting (Pattern Recognition and Image Processing Group). Maybe we could get in touch via mail or some messenger program. I'm from Austria as well. 


Anybody finished yet? (didn't receive any mails yet, so I guess not  ).

Set number 2 (with more items) is finished for volunteers. So anyone interested can hit me up.


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## DAE_JA_VOO (Sep 12, 2008)

I did get your message but i haven't had chance to do it yet. I've had class all week. I'll do it soon


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## AvGalen (Sep 12, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> Arnaud, not all IQ-tests are that way. You do realize this thread is about a "high range IQ test", right? Average or somewhat above average people shouldn't even be taking such a test, its purpose is to differentiate people who already achieved high results at a "normal IQ test" which is intended for everybody but isn't capable to differentiate at high ranges. So I disagree with your number above. The people tested with this should have a far higher IQ than that.


 
No, all IQ-tests should have the result I mentioned in my previous post (from now on mentioned as X). It is literally in the definition.
That means that if you create a test and have 1 million random people do it, the average score should be X. If you look at the results of the top 1000 people their score could be something like X+50. (I am to lazy to calculate if 50 is correct for top 1000 from 1000000)
But if you let those top 1000 people do the same test again their average score wouldn't be X+50 this time. It would just be X.

Another example: The average IQ for people in The Netherlands is X. The average IQ for people in Germany is also X. But people in The Netherlands can score higher/lower compared to people in Germany on average.

Basically an IQ-test only tests how you score compared to other people that took the same test. So if you ever take an IQ-test and someone else takes a different IQ-test it isn't really possible to compare your results


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## F.P. (Sep 12, 2008)

Well, the average is 100 but there are a lot of high range IQ tests in which you will aready have an IQ of about 120 (which is clearly above average) if you have one to five items correct.

This means that if someone who has an IQ below this score won't get a result even near his real IQ when taking a high IQ test (all this depends on norming, number of items etc.).

On the other hand there are tests, in which the average person won't even be able to solve the minimum of items in order to get a score.


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## Stefan (Sep 13, 2008)

Nice try, Arnaud. But did you really think I wouldn't notice how you changed the premise from "tested people" to "have random people do it" as if that weren't entirely different? Please...


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## F.P. (Sep 15, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> Basically an IQ-test only tests how you score compared to other people that took the same test. So if you ever take an IQ-test and someone else takes a different IQ-test it isn't really possible to compare your results




That's right, because different IQ tests seem to test different things, but "above average" people score above average in every IQ test they take.
At least statistics say so and from my personal experience I know that too.


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## LuffyOniiSan (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh. Me too. Thanks!


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## F.P. (Sep 16, 2008)

To everyone who is currently working on SET 1 of the test:

In item IX - replace the 7 with an 8!!! we just found this mistake!

Sorry...I hope that noone wasted hours on this item yet.


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## Dene (Sep 16, 2008)

Ah lucky! I was going to get to that one today.


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