# Health safety of Chinese cubes?



## Artic (Jul 11, 2014)

I was wondering if anyone knew the health safeties of Chinese manufactured cubes from Moyu, Dayan, Shengshou etc. I know they are very popular and I would like some information regarding the health safety of their products. There have been serious concerns with Chinese made toys in the past for using toxic materials with known carcinogenic causing plastics and using other harmful materials. 

The cubes we purchase are all made in China where there is little to no regulation for health safety and rampant use of cheap toxic materials to create almost all of their toys. 

I've tried researching these companies to find any information, but cannot find anything establishing proper use of materials in their cubes. Could any representative from Moyu, Dayan, Shengshou confirm and list the material contents of their cubes. Could anyone else post any information regarding this subject?

I really hope we are not all using toxic cubes made from unsafe materials. A lot of these materials cause birth defects and/or cancer, so we along with our children and/or younger siblings would be really affected by this.


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## RobertFontaine (Jul 11, 2014)

Small pieces are an obvious choking hazard and would probably have a minimum age issue with stupid law suits in the U.S. but the plastic is probably only carcinogenic if you store your cubes in your water bottle.


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## DeeDubb (Jul 11, 2014)

What about modding a cube and breathing in the plastic?


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## RobertFontaine (Jul 11, 2014)

Can someone list off the common plastics used for prototypes, white and black cubes off the top of their head?


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## Artic (Jul 11, 2014)

Tempus said:


> ...If you eat your cube. So please, people, don't eat your cube.



A large percentage of Chinese manufactured toys are painted with a coating of paint containing harmful amounts of lead. In those cases, all you have to do is touch it, and already you are increasing your chances for cancer. So please don't joke around with eating a cube, which you know is nonsense.


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## Stewy (Jul 11, 2014)

Artic said:


> The cubes we purchase are all made in China where there is little to no regulation for health safety and rampant use of cheap toxic materials to create almost all of their toys.



do you have any proof to support your claim?


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## qqwref (Jul 11, 2014)

Lead doesn't cause cancer, Artic.

Personally I don't think there's any problem with speedcubes being dangerous. Sure, it's possible, but you have to consider that the big reason you occasionally see toxic products coming from China is to try to make very cheap products even more cheaply. The speedcubes you buy are actually quite expensive in relation to the cost of the plastic, which is an indicator that the makers are going for quality, not rock-bottom pricing - they do not need to get their prices as low as possible in order to compete. In addition, companies like Moyu and Dayan ride on their reputation for making good cubes, not on flooding the market with cheap plastic items. If people were somehow getting sick from using their cubes, it would cause huge and irreparable damage to their reputation, pretty much putting them out of business. For a company in that position, that kind of risk will never be worth a few cents per cube.


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## SirDuctTape (Jul 11, 2014)

Wow, for some reason this thread has got me spooked.

Edit:

Just read the last post. Intantly less spooked, but boy, I need to stop believing everything I read....


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## Owen (Jul 11, 2014)

I would think our beloved cube companies would be trustworthy.


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## Artic (Jul 11, 2014)

qqwref said:


> Lead doesn't cause cancer, Artic.
> 
> Personally I don't think there's any problem with speedcubes being dangerous. Sure, it's possible, but you have to consider that the big reason you occasionally see toxic products coming from China is to try to make very cheap products even more cheaply. The speedcubes you buy are actually quite expensive in relation to the cost of the plastic, which is an indicator that the makers are going for quality, not rock-bottom pricing - they do not need to get their prices as low as possible in order to compete. In addition, companies like Moyu and Dayan ride on their reputation for making good cubes, not on flooding the market with cheap plastic items. If people were somehow getting sick from using their cubes, it would cause huge and irreparable damage to their reputation, pretty much putting them out of business. For a company in that position, that kind of risk will never be worth a few cents per cube.



Large companies we consider "trustworthy" have been exposed for manufacturing toys containing lead and other toxic materials/chemicals. All of these companies manufacture their toys in China. Examples include:

*Mattel* - it sold toxic dolls such as Barbies http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/05/news/companies/cpsc/
*Marvel *- dangerous levels of lead detected in the paints they used http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2008...-By-Marvel-Toys-Due-to-Risk-of-Lead-Exposure/

Time and time again studies have shown that a large percentage of toys coming from China include harmful and toxic materials. You can read this study for more information:
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...de-china-lead-antimony-arsenic-cadmium-mattel

I've searched but cannot find any guarantees from Moyu, Dayan, Shengshou that they do NOT use these harmful materials in any of their products. Usually, there is a warning label attached or other information on the product itself. I would like to find out if their cubes are safe.


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## timeless (Jul 11, 2014)

lots of plastics contain BPA which is proven to been toxic, the stickers/ cube is usually abs or pvc which contain BPA
also lube like traxxas has labels which say it might cause birth defect


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## ZamHalen (Jul 11, 2014)

I want to be so sarcastic with this one but I'll hold off on that in case this thread really gets out of hand.

I wouldn't be too concerned seeing as most of the harmful materials have to be ingested to have negative effects on health and if I remember correctly some are related to being heated. Also more recently the issue has been with paint which is absent from most cubes anyway. Point being I think we're fine especially seeing as Mattel is pretty obviously going for a lower price rather than quality.


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## waffle=ijm (Jul 11, 2014)

The dose makes the poison


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## Artic (Jul 11, 2014)

ZamHalen said:


> I want to be so sarcastic with this one but I'll hold off on that in case this thread really gets out of hand.
> 
> I wouldn't be too concerned seeing as most of the harmful materials have to be ingested to have negative effects on health and if I remember correctly some are related to being heated. Also more recently the issue has been with paint which is absent from most cubes anyway. Point being I think we're fine especially seeing as Mattel is pretty obviously going for a lower price rather than quality.



Large companies we consider "trustworthy" have been exposed for manufacturing toys containing lead and other toxic materials/chemicals. All of these companies manufacture their toys in China. Examples include:

Mattel - it sold toxic dolls such as Barbies http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/05/news/companies/cpsc/
Marvel - dangerous levels of lead detected in the paints they used http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2008/...Lead-Exposure/

Time and time again studies have shown that a large percentage of toys coming from China include harmful and toxic materials. You can read this study for more information:
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...cadmium-mattel

I've searched but cannot find any guarantees from Moyu, Dayan, Shengshou that they do NOT use these harmful materials in any of their products. Usually, there is a warning label attached or other information on the product itself. I would like to find out if their cubes are safe.

*Did you read the last article I posted, from globalpost regarding the Greenpeace-IPEN study? To quote from the article*
_The toys — even some made by reputable manufacturers — also tested positive for lead, antimony, arsenic, cadmium, chromium and mercury, which can cause permanent damage to a child's nervous and immune systems after entering the body through the skin or mucous membranes, or through the air._

So it is not only paint and ingestion that is the issue, it is the plastic and the substances used to manufacture the toys.


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## RobertFontaine (Jul 11, 2014)

abs, pvc and vinyl are not toxic to touch. the puzzles are not painted. plastics are generally toxic to eat or smoke as the are petro-chemicals.
The bpa's in the ink on some heat based inks used in store cashier tills are readily absorbed through the skin but those aren't the inks used to colour the vinyl as they don't smear or fade.

If you took your cubes and placed them in a bottle of drinking water and left them out in the sun I would surmise that you could create a product that would cause an effect that could be measured with a sensitive enough blood test. Would the dosage of poisons incurred result in a toxic effect all by itself? Likely not.


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## Stewy (Jul 11, 2014)

Artic said:


> Large companies we consider "trustworthy" have been exposed for manufacturing toys containing lead and other toxic materials/chemicals. All of these companies manufacture their toys in China. Examples include:
> 
> *Mattel* - it sold toxic dolls such as Barbies http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/05/news/companies/cpsc/
> *Marvel *- dangerous levels of lead detected in the paints they used http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2008...-By-Marvel-Toys-Due-to-Risk-of-Lead-Exposure/
> ...



So even the largest and most popular products from the largest companies aren't safe. Do you trust non-chinese cubes like the Rubik's brand cubes or Meffert's? With your logic i should just burn all of my puzzles, or anything i own that came from a factory for that matter. I'm don't mean for that to come off as rude but technically no company can be trusted, so you might as well take the risk and grab some nice shengshou and moyu puzzles instead.


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## ZamHalen (Jul 11, 2014)

Artic said:


> Large companies we consider "trustworthy" have been exposed for manufacturing toys containing lead and other toxic materials/chemicals. All of these companies manufacture their toys in China. Examples include:
> 
> Mattel - it sold toxic dolls such as Barbies http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/05/news/companies/cpsc/
> Marvel - dangerous levels of lead detected in the paints they used http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2008/...Lead-Exposure/
> ...



I apologize you are correct I was just admitted to the local emergency room after a rather long cubing session today and am now near death.

In all seriousness though waffle's post is the perfect way to sum it all up. Do you happen to remember the the big deal that was made a few years back with apple juice? It was found that apple juice contained trace amounts of arsenic and the media ran with it, urging people to not drink apple juice when, in all reality, the amounts found were harmless. This proved to be sensationalism at it's best because it being not harmful wouldn't sell that much. ( And I understand this is a weird analogy but I find it relevant).

I find it highly unlikely that our speedcubes will have long lasting effects on our health, but being a musician I can't guarantee anything given my lack of education in this matter. But you in all your wisdom and your articles obviously know much more than all of us here.



EDIT: It appears that Waffle's post has been removed though it is quite relevant to this discussion. The point was that the amount of poison changes the need for worry. I.E. small amounts of arsenic won't kill you or even have adverse effects, but in large amounts you're as good as dead.


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## BaMiao (Jul 11, 2014)

Most reports of harmful toys out of China is for lead in the paints. I haven't seen any reports of any products that are harmful because of the plastic.

Also, the health risk is pretty much entirely limited to small children. If you are no longer a toddler, and you are not pregnant, there shouldn't be any risk to you. We should, of course, still be worried about the issue, but again, I don't think there is anything to worry about regardless.


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## RayLam (Jul 11, 2014)

relax guy,knowing too much makes you worry too much XD this is an unmoved faith of we chinese...


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## DeeDubb (Jul 11, 2014)

RayLam said:


> relax guy*,knowing too much makes you worry too muc*h XD this is an unmoved faith of we chinese...



"Ignorance is bliss" is how we say it in English, haha.


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## FailCuber (Jul 11, 2014)

Everyday we touch chinese products. Almost every thing we touch is from China. So cubes won't be a problem.


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## Tempus (Jul 11, 2014)

FailCuber said:


> Everyday we touch chinese products. Almost every thing we touch is from China. So cubes won't be a problem.


Exactly. It seems ironic that people are arguing over the safety of handling Chinese plastic in a venue where everyone (who isn't using a touchscreen) is typing their arguments on a keyboard made of Chinese plastic.


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## Kirjava (Jul 11, 2014)

I'd be nice if you didn't go all out scare mongering; there's no reason to believe there are any health risks associated with cubes. 

Your tone is very alarmist.


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## RayLam (Jul 11, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> "Ignorance is bliss" is how we say it in English, haha.


wow,new to me,thanks.


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## Dane man (Jul 11, 2014)

We use plastic everyday. And it's not the plastic that is considered harmful through absorption, it's paint (which at least my cubes don't have). Nothing has happened to anyone until now because of the plastic unless they put it in their hot water and drank it, or burned it and inhaled the smoke. And plastic is toxic when ingested regardless of type because it's oil based. The biggest risk we run isn't simply touching our cubes, but inhaling the natural powder lube that results from frequent use, which isn't a lot. I see no reason to worry as most everything is made of plastic from china, especially the really really cheap stuff like our keyboards, mouses, chairs, monitors, cellphone casings, and basically ever other plastic thing we use and touch on a daily basis. The risk is so small from our cubes that there are other health issues that we should worry about much more than the plastic from china, such as our own eating habits, washing our hands, taking showers every day, etc.

All in all, while there might be a tiny risk of there actually being something in one of our cubes, it's not something we need to freak out over or worry about. So, don't worry about it, we'll be fine.


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## kcl (Jul 11, 2014)

so in other words I'm probably not the smartest human being for fully modding a 5x5 with a dremel and no face mask? Much dust was inhaled.


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## guysensei1 (Jul 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> so in other words I'm probably not the smartest human being for fully modding a 5x5 with a dremel and no face mask? Much dust was inhaled.



I didn't use a face mask when modding my 6x6


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## Dane man (Jul 11, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> so in other words I'm probably not the smartest human being for fully modding a 5x5 with a dremel and no face mask? Much dust was inhaled.


Nothings probably gonna happen if it hasn't already. Though, I would recommend using a face mask while modding anything made of plastic that way. lol.


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## Artic (Jul 11, 2014)

I don't know why a lot of you are excusing the possible harmful nature of Chinese made cubes. The fact remains that 99% of American and Western made toys contain safe plastics free of toxic or harmful paints and metals. Products made by American companies in China like Apple etc undergo safety checks to ensure they are safe. However, small to mid size companies refuse or decide not to clean their products to increase profit, which is why so many Chinese made toys are unsafe. 

It has been shown time and time again that Chinese made toys contain toxic materials that cause serious health issues. *Please read the articles I linked as they contain examples and studies showing exactly how damaging the materials in these toys can be.* A lot of you seem to be brushing it off as insignificant or treating this subject lightly. The heavy metals present in some of these toys are known to be carcinogenic, cause brain/neural and birth abnormalities and defects, and lead to serious lifelong health issues. Yes, most of you will not feel these effects immediately. That's because these are health issues that slowly develop over time. It might be 10 years before they become apparent. If you have younger siblings, infants in your family, pregnant relatives, they will affect them much more seriously quicker. Personally I don't want anyone else in my family getting sick over unsafe toys.

All I'm asking for is information or for a representative of Moyu, Dayan, Shengshou to confirm that their products are safe. If they have nothing to hide and their products are safe, this should be a simple and easy thing to do. Or if someone else has any information, please post it. I know there are several concerned people on this site in addition to myself.


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## Ninja Storm (Jul 11, 2014)

Artic said:


> If they have nothing to hide and their products are safe, this should be a simple and easy thing to do.



Saying that the companies are Chinese(and not English-speaking by default) and are barely active on this forum, I doubt it's as easy as you make it out to me.


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## rowan (Jul 11, 2014)

If this was your concern, maybe your first step should have been emailing the companies that manufacture your cubes instead of posting on an unrelated forum. Maybe if they didn't respond, you could have brought this to the forum. You are making a lot of assumptions based of the previous history of unrelated companies and providing no evidence for your claims.


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## Dane man (Jul 11, 2014)

Artic said:


> ...anyone else in my family...


Has someone in your family gotten sick because of the toxic chemicals in toys? Is this the motivation behind your posts?

Also, there is no such thing as plastic that is free of toxic chemicals, paints, metals. It's just that some are more harmful than others. And the statistics you provided do not match the statistics you claim. Only 1/3 of Chinese produced toys contain traces of toxic materials, and most of the chemically toxic ones are only sold internally to China according to your references (which are quite old, and from sources known to exaggerate and skew information). And there are very very few American made toys, most of our toys today come from China. If I were to worry about the toxic chemicals in China produced products, I'd worry about all of them, not just puzzle cubes.

And no, we are not excusing bad things. Bad things should never be excused, but we are simply saying that it is not as bad as all the other bad things that we should really be worrying about, and there's a lot to worry about that affects our health much much more than the plastic used in our toys (like the toxic chemicals in the food we eat). Please understand, if there is a problem, we'd like to see it fixed, but we're not going to get all worked up about it until a problem shows up.

You can ask them (Moyu, Dayan, etc) what plastics they use in their products. I'm sure they'll be happy to respond. And if they do have something bad in them, we can ask them to choose a cleaner plastic, and I'm sure they'd happily oblige because they want our business.


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## waffle=ijm (Jul 11, 2014)

ZamHalen said:


> IEDIT: It appears that Waffle's post has been removed though it is quite relevant to this discussion. The point was that the amount of poison changes the need for worry. I.E. small amounts of arsenic won't kill you or even have adverse effects, but in large amounts you're as good as dead.



If the mods saw my post as irrelevant then I'm not as clever in my posting than I thought and the removal of my post was reasonable and I have no reason to fight against them. Though this is the point I was trying to make with fewer words. Perhaps this reworded version will be more appealing.

Literally everything we eat and touch is poisonous*.

*-amount varies


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## DeeDubb (Jul 12, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> so in other words I'm probably not the smartest human being for fully modding a 5x5 with a dremel and no face mask? Much dust was inhaled.





DeeDubb said:


> What about modding a cube and breathing in the plastic?



The reason I posted this was because I actually modded my SS 6x6 the night before this thread started, so it freaked me out a bit. After more research, I think I'll be ok, but in future mods, I'll try to be more careful. There's no reason to take a health risk for a hobby like cubing.


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## rsquaredcuber (Jul 12, 2014)

RobertFontaine said:


> Small pieces are an obvious choking hazard and would probably have a minimum age issue with stupid law suits in the U.S. but the plastic is probably only carcinogenic if you store your cubes in your water bottle.



Would a stickerless zhanchi being solved underwater be carcinogenic?


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## FailCuber (Jul 12, 2014)

Everyone is just too serious, . If you are reading this, you are touching 'Made in China'
products.


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## Tony Fisher (Jul 13, 2014)

In order for a puzzle to be legally sold in certain parts of the world they have to pass safety tests in different regions (USA, Europe etc). That includes the puzzle, packaging and even labels on the packaging. I know of a puzzle that was recently sold in Europe that had not been tested and cleared for sale in the USA so was not allowed to be sold there. It then later turned out that a label on the packaging had not even been tested and passed in Europe so the puzzle had to be temporarily withdrawn. These kind of things are treated very seriously these days though I suspect in reality there is little danger unless you chewed on your puzzles every day of your life.
Regarding the dangers of modding puzzles, after over 30 years it hasn't affected me at all and regarding the dangers of modding puzzles, it hasn't affected me at all and regarding the dangers of modding puzzles, it hasn't affected me at all and regarding the dangers of modding puzzles, it hasn't affected me at all.


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## Cubenovice (Jul 14, 2014)

Why do you keep hammering on *Chinese* cubes?
Why not ask the same about Rubiks?

Plastic goods, and toys in particular, are subjected to lots and lots of regulatory testing before you may sell / export them.
Occasionally one may slip under the radar but even then they are still caught once near (or just on) the market.

ABS does not contain BPA
PVC does not contain BPA
PC (polycarbonate) does contain BPA and transparent cubes are typically made of this
Some cubes in PC / ABS blend have been made but the standard material is still ABS (cheaper and better cube properties anyway)

The BPA levels in PC are very low and the typical "BPA-concern" concerns food storage containers, in particular baby bottles.
There you heat instant-formula in contact with BPA containing plastic and some BPA may leach out.
Fun fact: the epoxy coating inside tin cans (also the formula cans...) contains much higher BPA levels than PC.

Really, there is lot you should worry more about than cube plastic.

If you're really worried about plastic safety better stay away from all the electronic devices:
They are full of PC and flame retardants. And do you know how many germs live on keyboards and phones?


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## Makarov (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm pretty sure all my collector's statues for video games are filled with more lead paint than my cubes  Since I don't have kids I'm not too worried about it. I did throw one statue out because it smelled up the room toxic though.

While I'm not worried about it, I don't see how it is a bad thing to establish the health safety of puzzles. Do they really conduct safety tests on cubes sold online, or just those sold in retail stores? I'm not sure. I would like to believe they would. But if we assumed everything companies were producing for us was safe, we'd never know for sure. I do believe you're more likely to get a response from a company as a thread of curious people than just as a single person emailing them. So as long as it isn't alarmist I feel like this is a good topic.


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## Johnny (Sep 20, 2014)

Unless a study comes out saying that YJ or ShengShou or Dayan uses unsafe plastic, I think the risk is relatively low. After all, these plastics are only unsafe in extreme conditions such as extreme heat. Other than that, they're generally safe.

I also suspect that cubes are a big-business operation contrary to what the companies portray. I don't have the facts but I would doubt that YJ or Dayan or ShengShou is a tiny little company located in some tiny little town in China.


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 20, 2014)

Artic said:


> There have been serious concerns with Chinese made toys in the past for using toxic materials with known carcinogenic causing plastics and using other harmful materials.



Pro tip: Don't burn Chinese cubes and inhale the smoke.

Do you eat cubes or lick the cube dust off of the inside of completely dry cubes? If so you've got bigger things to worry about, otherwise you'll be fine concerning the plastic.


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## LarryLunchmeat (Sep 21, 2014)

I've never heard of unsafe plastic to touch. Seems a little ridiculous to me.. What about my Xbox controller, steering wheel, cell phone, mouse/keyboard, guitar strings, remote control, etc that I touch all day every day.


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