# MGLS Anyone?



## ScottKidder (Sep 25, 2008)

Anyone else learning MGLS? I just started and have about 20ish of the CLS cases down. Just wondering


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## ErikJ (Sep 25, 2008)

I know the I cases and a few other easy ones but I can't see myself learning full MGLS


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## waffle=ijm (Sep 25, 2008)

yesh. the easy ones for OH petrus.


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## fanwuq (Sep 25, 2008)

I like it. I would learn it, but only for EJF2L if I ever use Petrus for speed. (It's quite difficult for me to switch, but I do like the idea.)


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## kratos94 (Sep 25, 2008)

What exactly is MGLS?


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## JBCM627 (Sep 25, 2008)

kratos94 said:


> What exactly is MGLS?



http://cube.garron.us/MGLS/.

Hmm, I wonder if Lucas has learned MGLS.


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## CAT13 (Sep 25, 2008)

JBCM627 said:


> kratos94 said:
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> > What exactly is MGLS?
> ...



on that page:


> I adopted his idea, found algs for every case, memorized them, and refined them -and did all of that work myself.


I think he has 

oh, and this:


> Several cubers are learning MGLS. The following box lists those who are so cool that they have adopted the method and have finished learning it:
> Lucas Garron (June 16, 2007)
> Justin Adsuara (Dec. 25, 2007)


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## somerandomkidmike (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm interested in learning for petrus solves. Since I use the method for OH. I am more concentrated on learning all of the Waterman algorithms at the moment though.


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## ScottKidder (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm gonna learn them all, hopefully. I only know about 1/3 of OLL right now and hated learning them for some reason, so I switched.


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## Dene (Sep 25, 2008)

I have been planning on learning MGLS for over a year now... it hasn't gone so well


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## Piercy (Sep 25, 2008)

What kind of advantage do you think this method can have over COLL + PLL ?


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## blah (Sep 25, 2008)

Piercy said:


> What kind of advantage do you think this method can have over COLL + PLL ?



Did you miss something?

You can use MGLS _everytime_, but you can only use COLL when you get an all-edges-oriented case for OLL (or if you used VHF2L or ZBF2L).

Also, COLL = no 2-gen; CLS = 2-gen.

I think I should just mention something out of the blue since I think it's a very common misconception. MGLS is optimally slightly faster then pure Fridrich in terms of move count. But that's not why you would wanna use MGLS.

In my opinion, there are 2 reasons to use MGLS: ELS and CLS (duh). Why ELS? The fact that you're doing ELS instead of a fourth F2L slot means there are NO pieces to track, the edges are all sitting there staring at you. And since you have a very good view of all the edges all the U edges all the time, simple edge control techniques can easily get you an ELS skip. In contrast, how often do you get a fourth slot skip? Using edge control techniques to skip ELS is analogous to multislotting in pure Fridrich, only it's much easier to master (that's why Lucas uses edge control all through his F2L phase, to force an easy ELS skip, I think).

And then there's CLS. CLS is optimally faster than OLL in terms of move count. But that's not what makes it useful. It's the fact that CLS can _always_ be done using 2-gen that makes it very useful for big cubes and OH. Very. But the 2-gen algorithms are sub-optimal, so if you use 2-gens for all CLS cases, you have a move count disadvantage against Fridrich. 

Summary: Non-2-gen CLS: fewer moves than OLL, not necessarily faster. 2-gen CLS: more moves than OLL, not necessarily slower, but definitely _smoother_ for big cubes and OH.

After all this, why am I not using MGLS? I tried  Recognition was too hard for me, and I couldn't get rid of the there's-still-a-fourth-slot mentality - MGLS, like ZBF2L, requires you to change your entire cubing momentum because there are now "only 3 slots" and you have "an additional step" to do, if you get what I mean. The quotation marks are there for a reason, so don't come up with a silly argument to counter that.

PS: About that question asked earlier, if memory serves, Lucas doesn't even know all of OLL, so of course he knows full MGLS (to be that fast)


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## ScottKidder (Sep 25, 2008)

Recognition is hard for me right now too, but I know that as I learn more cases it'll get easier and easier. I love how fast these algs are


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## Piercy (Sep 25, 2008)

blah said:


> Piercy said:
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> 
> > What kind of advantage do you think this method can have over COLL + PLL ?
> ...



Thank you for answering. I'll stay Petrusing / COLLing for a while, so.

I can _everytime_ use COLL.


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## fanwuq (Sep 26, 2008)

I'm going to start learning full MGLS now. I'll get into the petrus orienting style for ELS eventually.
So are there any easy positions that you should learn first?


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## waffle=ijm (Sep 26, 2008)

Piercy said:


> blah said:
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same with roux...but i'm learning a bunch of CMLL algs to replace my COLLs


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## MistArts (Sep 26, 2008)

I thought about learning it, but then I came up with something called PPAE1C.


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## yurivish (Sep 26, 2008)

MistArts said:


> I thought about learning it, but then I came up with something called PPAE1C.




And what's that?


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## blah (Sep 26, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> I'm going to start learning full MGLS now. I'll get into the petrus orienting style for ELS eventually.



An alternative resource:

Lucas' page for ELS:http://cube.garron.us/MGLS/ELS.htm
Mine:http://zzzonked.googlepages.com/mgls.html

You can try my page for ELS if you like, created it when I first started learning MGLS. Never got round to making a proper CLS page though, because of the number of algs, and also because, well, I never finished learning them 

Now, a little advertising for my page : I like my ELS algs way better than Lucas' (the ones that are different from his of course). Only 2 of my algs require 1 regrip, every other alg can be done in one smooth movement, and all but one of my algs are HTM-optimal. And I think my organization of cases is more layman-friendly than Lucas' binary IDs (though it's a very clever way of naming cases). I organized the cases in such a way that the mirrors are directly above and below(?) each other, but I retained Lucas' alg IDs, so you can refer to his page when comparing algs. Yep.

PS: Tell me if the images are really hard to see/confusing/distracting, I've got complaints on those before 



fanwuq said:


> So are there any easy positions that you should learn first?


You can pretty much learn ELS in a day or two, honestly. You already know some cases and half the cases are just mirrors. Heck, they're all intuitive after an hour or so (okay maybe I'm exaggerating a little but you get the point).


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## yurivish (Sep 26, 2008)

Do you have a page for CLS algs too? Lucas's look good, but it's always nice to have more than one source.

I'm thinking of learning the I and Im cases for when the corner is already in the F2L slot but misoriented. I currently use ZZ, and it'd be cool to get a sort of 1-look LL more often (I'm using COLL/EPLL | sune/antisune/PLL).


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## ScottKidder (Sep 26, 2008)

Yeah for a couple of the CLS cases on Lucas's page I do a rotation. I like algs with rotations that avoid B and B2 moves. Nice page blah, I like it. I just learned intuitive ELS from Heises old method page and it works for now while I'm attempting to learn all the CLS cases. I'm sitting on about 20 of them so far.


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## MistArts (Sep 26, 2008)

yurivish said:


> MistArts said:
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> > I thought about learning it, but then I came up with something called PPAE1C.
> ...



Something I made up using a little over 100 algorithms


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## CAT13 (Sep 27, 2008)

MistArts said:


> yurivish said:
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But what is it?


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## MistArts (Sep 27, 2008)

CAT13 said:


> MistArts said:
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I'm not giving it out until I look into in. It's actually 450 algs including mirrors and inverse.


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## yurivish (Sep 27, 2008)

MistArts said:


> CAT13 said:
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Sounds exciting. Something comparable to ZB?

Edge O/PLL and then corner O/PLL?


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## blah (Sep 27, 2008)

yurivish said:


> Do you have a page for CLS algs too? Lucas's look good, but it's always nice to have more than one source.





blah said:


> *...Never got round to making a proper CLS page though...*


Message too short 



ScottKidder said:


> Nice page blah, I like it. I just learned intuitive ELS from Heises old method page and it works for now while I'm attempting to learn all the CLS cases.


Oh you'd better like it, pal!  I spent like 20 hours generating those images and another 20 going through every alg Cube Explorer spat out, which makes me wonder why I didn't move on to CLS with all that time I invested in stupid ELS


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## cubeRemi (Sep 27, 2008)

yurivish said:


> MistArts said:
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> > CAT13 said:
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so it's a quiz?? okay

uuhhmm 
-ELS and edge permutation at once,
-corner orientation, 
-corner permutation ??

can you give a hint? is it 2 stage or 3 stage?

Remi


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## MistArts (Sep 27, 2008)

cubeRemi said:


> yurivish said:
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Intuitive, one of the algs, then Intuitive to finish


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## Pro_Yo (Dec 7, 2008)

i am learning the I and Im mgls algs for petrus they are faster in my opinion with petrus than petrus+coll also less cases to learn. i forgot to mention that i also average around 30-35 seconds with petrus. i am making the transition from full fridrich to petrus and mgls or ejf2l.


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