# CheescakeCuber's Roux Steps 4b-4c Alternative



## CheesecakeCuber (May 4, 2013)

Hello all you Rouxers out there on the SS Forums. I'm not sure if this idea has been mentioned yet and I haven't perfected this alternative substep to Roux, but I'm hoping to gain feedback here on ways to possibly improve it or if it's harder or unnecessarily complicated. Anyway let's get to it:

*4a)* Ok so just your basic EO of course with tracking the UL and UR edges. (You could alternatively track the FU and BU edges as they will be used in the later steps.)

*4b)* Solve the UL and UR edges and the FU and BU edges with some combination of an M/M' U/U' M/M'. This can be done in any order...

*4c)* Instead of the usual Permutation of the M-edges, you'll be left with either the Dots Case (E2 M' E2 M) or a cube in need of AUF. 

*Reason for Development:* My reasons for trying to come up with an alternative of the 4b-4c sub steps is to avoid the FUUUUUU cases as Waffo calls them because recog is very annoying for me.

*Issues:* It may take a while to get used to solving the UL, UR, AND FU and FB edges and to effectively track them without losing TPS.

Again, to all you more experienced Rouxers out there (I currently average about 23-25 seconds) especially 5BLD, Kirjava, and Waffo, it would mean a lot if one of you took a look at this and wrote some feedback.


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## Bestsimple (May 4, 2013)

Could you please put in some example solves?


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## Endgame (May 4, 2013)

that is like trying to recreate the key for a door when you can just kick it in


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## Ooi Yan Qing (May 4, 2013)

CheesecakeCuber said:


> *Reason for Development:* My reasons for trying to come up with an alternative of the 4b-4c sub steps is to avoid the FUUUUUU cases as Waffo calls them because recog is very annoying for me.



The FUUUUUUUUUU case is the easiest case, i hate DOTS.


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## Renslay (May 4, 2013)

Ooi Yan Qing said:


> The FUUUUUUUUUU case is the easiest case, i hate DOTS.



I agree.


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## CheesecakeCuber (May 4, 2013)

Ooi Yan Qing said:


> The FUUUUUUUUUU case is the easiest case, i hate DOTS.



Really? For me its def the hardest. Dots is the easiest right after half dots and a skipXD

Perhaps, there are some recog tricks that I still need to learn?


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## ottozing (May 4, 2013)

For the "FUUU" cases (I don't actually use Roux as my main method, but I'm experienced with it to an extent), what I do is just try and solve the D edges rather than think about it in terms of cycles. Some examples (Scramble WCA style)

U2 M' U2 M' U2 M2 U2

In this case, the D edges are YG and YB. YB is opposite of where it needs to be. What I would do to solve this case is M U2 to pair up the edges with the center, M U2 to solve the edges with their adjacent centers, and M2' to align the M slice.

M U2 M U2 M2

In this case, I would do something that is pretty inefficient, but It follows the same rules as before, and makes recog easy. I'd start with U2 M' U2 to pair the edges around the yellow center, M' U2 to solve the edges with the center again, then M2' U2 to finish.

U2 M' U2 M

This is slightly different to the last 2 examples in the sense that you don't have to align the edges with their adjacent centers at the end because they're already done for you. Just do M' U2 M to insert the yellow edge, and U2 to AUF.

Hope this helps


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## CheesecakeCuber (May 4, 2013)

ottozing said:


> For the "FUUU" cases (I don't actually use Roux as my main method, but I'm experienced with it to an extent), what I do is just try and solve the D edges rather than think about it in terms of cycles. Some examples (Scramble WCA style)
> 
> U2 M' U2 M' U2 M2 U2
> 
> ...



Thanks Ottozing, I'll be sure to try it out. I'm still leaning towards my idea that I mentioned above but I will experiment with both.


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## pijok (May 7, 2013)

I use Athefres approach
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?35350-Roux-4b-to-4c-Transition

and i hate dots, too


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## Kirjava (May 7, 2013)

what the hell is is


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## TheLizardWizard (May 7, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> what the hell is is



i dont even


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## 5BLD (May 7, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> what the hell is is



G'night

Also for 4b+4c i just suggest doing prediction through looking at the DF sticker or something. I do stuff like that


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## Czery (May 7, 2013)

5BLD said:


> G'night
> 
> Also for 4b+4c i just suggest doing prediction through looking at the DF sticker or something. I do stuff like that



Stuff that makes you the fastest in the world. I would love to master the "stuff" you posses.


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## Kirjava (May 7, 2013)

This is like, literally what the Roux method is, with the steps described in an odd way.


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## Renslay (May 7, 2013)

Okay, maybe it's me, but I have no idea how to merge 4b+4c or predict 4c during 4b (if it's a 3-permutation). I always have to look at DB (the sticker on D) to tell the case. I can't understand Athefre's description either, it's just simply too brief.


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## Kirjava (May 7, 2013)

Merging and predicting are two different things.

People have been doing 4b+c forever. You just learn cool cases, usually taking the form of forcing an LL skip.

Saying "do 4b+c and sometimes get dots" isn't... worth... posting...

Especially when no research has gone into it, and there is no explanation of how this is meant to be done.


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## 5BLD (May 7, 2013)

Czery said:


> Stuff that makes you the fastest in the world. I would love to master the "stuff" you posses.



I'll make about weird stuff I do in solves if i feel like it...

But yeah the gist of this is simple identifying either the DF or UB edge before 4c. And then when you get there you have enough info to work out the case.


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## TheLizardWizard (May 7, 2013)

5BLD said:


> I'll make about weird stuff I do in solves if i feel like it...
> 
> But yeah the gist of this is simple identifying either the DF or UB edge before 4c. And then when you get there you have enough info to work out the case.



Yeah, I just look at the piece(s) I send to the D layer while I insert UR/L and then I know where the last piece(s) have to go. I can't really think of a much quicker way other than knowing the optimal solve (one-look L6E algs haha that would be all bad)


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## Veerexx (May 7, 2013)

I am learning Roux atm... This doesn't seem too different... But I am unexperienced.



5BLD said:


> I'll make about weird stuff I do in solves if i feel like it...
> 
> But yeah the gist of this is simple identifying either the DF or UB edge before 4c. And then when you get there you have enough info to work out the case.


5BLD that Soarin pic is CUTE


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## CheesecakeCuber (May 8, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> what the hell is is



My thoughts exactly now that I've read over this again...sigh.


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## Kirjava (May 8, 2013)

00:48 <+Kirjava> why
00:48 <+Kirjava> whhhy
00:48 <+Kirjava> when anyone tried to improve roux
00:48 <+Kirjava> they always
00:49 <+Kirjava> try and do LSE in two looks
00:49 <+Kirjava> whhhy
00:49 <+Kirjava> LSE IS LIKE 0 LOOKS
00:49 <+Kirjava> AND NEAR OPTIMAL
00:49 <+Kirjava> **** ABOUT WITH SECOND BLOCK OR SOMETHING

srsly, try improving something else for once. LSE is not going to get any better anytime soon.


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## Renslay (May 8, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> 00:48 <+Kirjava> why
> 00:48 <+Kirjava> whhhy
> 00:48 <+Kirjava> when anyone tried to improve roux
> 00:48 <+Kirjava> they always
> ...



Sorry, couldn't resist. 
LSE IS LIKE 0 LOOKS


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## Kirjava (May 8, 2013)

Recog EO before/during CMLL.

Recog UL/R during EO

Recog LL at some point before getting to it.

You can grep LSE info entirely from lookahead - giving 0 pauses for recognition.


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## Renslay (May 8, 2013)

The first two checked (mostly), however, I feel problems at the "Recog LL at some point before getting to it." part. So, if I get well, there isn't an exact method for that (or if is, it's "forced"), and I have to figure out what piece will go to DF (or UB) during the solving of the UL/R. Neat... Time for some random scramble experimenting!

I also feel that I have to slow down really, reeeally during these recogs...  Like 2 TPS.


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## Kirjava (May 8, 2013)

Renslay said:


> So, if I get well, there isn't an exact method for that



Sure there is. I use the 'track what's gonna be at BU' system. You find that once you get used to it and are doing it without thinking, you end up knowing the case earlier and earlier in the LSE.


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## Renslay (May 8, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> Sure there is. I use the 'track what's gonna be at BU' system. You find that once you get used to it and are doing it without thinking, you end up knowing the case earlier and earlier in the LSE.



Okay, one final question (for now). Is 'track what's gonna be at BU' system equivalent to the 'track what's gonna be at FD' system (i.e. to determine the 3-perm)? Since I currently look at the DF sticker to determine the final step, the latter sounds easier to me.


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## 5BLD (May 8, 2013)

Yes it is


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