# Will Clock get removed as an official event?



## Hazel (Jan 28, 2019)

Feet was recently announced to be leaving the WCA official event roster (which is possibly still up for change).
Will clock get this same treatment? It's been a debate in the cubing community for a while. Clock is seemingly difficult to host as an event for various reasons (DGCubes made an elaborate post regarding this a little while ago), and it's obviously not as popular of an event as most. Many people also don't think it's enough of a traditional Rubik's-type puzzle to be in the WCA, and some people also see it as too trivial of an event.
Personally, I really really hope it stays. I've started really getting into clock for the past half year, and it's so much fun, but I'm worried that all of this practice will be wasted if the WCA decides to remove it as an official event. Will this happen, or will clock stay an event?


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## Juicejam (Jan 28, 2019)

I personally don't think clock is going to be removed any time soon, especially with people getting into magnetic clocks and what not


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## weatherman223 (Jan 28, 2019)

I’m a prominent supporter of clock being removed as a WCA event because in my opinion it’s more like Magic than 3x3, but like @Juicejam above mentioned, hardware is getting decently better. Knowing the community, like what happened in the past with Square 1, people will hate the event and after the good clocks come out people will love it.


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## Lucas Garron (Jan 29, 2019)

For what it's worth, no one has actually proposed to the WRC that clock be removed as an official event.


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## Juicejam (Jan 29, 2019)

Lucas Garron said:


> For what it's worth, no one has actually proposed to the WRC that clock be removed as an official event.


Fingers crossed it stays that way.. really want to get an official average, lol


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## DGCubes (Jan 29, 2019)

If we assume another event will be removed, I would be extremely surprised if that event is anything but Clock. That doesn't mean I think it should happen or will happen soon, but it's definitely the highest-risk event in my opinion.

You should still practice Clock though! Seeing as Feet isn't even being removed until 2020 (and even that isn't 100% confirmed) and we were given a lot of advance notice, Clock will almost definitely remain until at least 2021.


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## AbsoRuud (Jan 29, 2019)

Rubik invented the Clock. You can't get more traditional Rubik's type puzzle than that.


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## Juicejam (Jan 29, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Rubik invented the Clock. You can't get more traditional Rubik's type puzzle than that.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rubik also invent the Magic? Since magic was removed, then I think it's reasonable to assume that clock isn't safe either.


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## Hazel (Jan 29, 2019)

Does anyone have the data of how many official attempts have been made in every event? Or something similar, like percent of competitions with each event or number of attempts in each event in 2018? That data could be useful.


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## freshcuber.de (Jan 29, 2019)

AbsoRuud said:


> Rubik invented the Clock.



Wikipedia: "*Rubik's Clock* is a mechanical puzzle invented and patented by Christopher C. Wiggs and Christopher J. Taylor. The Hungarian sculptor and professor of architecture Ernő Rubik bought the patent from them to market the product under his name. It was first marketed in 1988.


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## Kit Clement (Jan 29, 2019)

To clarify, Erno did not invent the clock, but bought the patent off the actual inventors to sell under his name.

Edit: I'd say ninja'd, but doesn't take a ninja to beat you by 2 hours. Apparently I had this page open for a while before I decided to respond.


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## willtri4 (Jan 30, 2019)

Aerma said:


> Does anyone have the data of how many official attempts have been made in every event? Or something similar, like percent of competitions with each event or number of attempts in each event in 2018? That data could be useful.


Some of that data is here, but only for the top 10 https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/statistics.php#most_persons


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## AbsoRuud (Jan 30, 2019)

freshcuber.de said:


> Wikipedia: "*Rubik's Clock* is a mechanical puzzle invented and patented by Christopher C. Wiggs and Christopher J. Taylor. The Hungarian sculptor and professor of architecture Ernő Rubik bought the patent from them to market the product under his name. It was first marketed in 1988.



Thank you, I stand corrected!


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## AbsoRuud (Jan 30, 2019)

Juicejam said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rubik also invent the Magic? Since magic was removed, then I think it's reasonable to assume that clock isn't safe either.



Now I don't know anymore. He didn't invent the clock either apparently. My whole world is upside down!


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## WillyTheWizard (Feb 9, 2019)

Clock must stay because it is super fun and still yet so undiscovered! Only one method has been found which leaves room for so many other ideas and techniques to be found. It would be a major shame if it was removed.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Feb 9, 2019)

WillyTheWizard said:


> Clock must stay because it is super fun and still yet so undiscovered! Only one method has been found which leaves room for so many other ideas and techniques to be found. It would be a major shame if it was removed.


No, I made the noflip method years ago and demoed it in comp. Nobody seems to care about using a method that's faster and more interesting though, they'd rather just complain about the normal method.


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## Underwatercuber (Feb 9, 2019)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> No, I made the noflip method years ago and demoed it in comp. Nobody seems to care about using a method that's faster and more interesting though, they'd rather just complain about the normal method.


Because it’s not faster or more interesting lol


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## Underwatercuber (Feb 9, 2019)

Clock shares a few of the cons feet had primarily being harder to organize due to clock hardware being very bad which makes scrambling a pain and pins can easily be pushed in or fall without proper covers. If those two points aren’t fixed then I could definitely see a proposal for the removal of clock being made soon. The ideal solution would be for a company to release a new clock that has excellent hardware and would draw people in and also cubestores doing things selling 3D printing clock covers (which makes running comps so much easier). With those fixed pretty much the only negatives I see with clock is lower competitor count (would most likely increase with better hardware being released similar to Qiyi sq1 but probably not to the same degree), it’s less intuitive to judge (but 1e2 covers that so minor point) and that lots of people consider it to be too simple and repetitive (which has never really been the reason to remove an event as far as I’m aware)


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## ecuber57 (Feb 9, 2019)

Just remove it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TetCuber48 (Feb 9, 2019)

i don't really care about clock at all and there's like no good hardware


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 9, 2019)

The hardware is actually pretty great now if you magnetize it. It's just that there's no one doing that commercially yet.


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## Underwatercuber (Nov 3, 2019)

Made a discussion on GitHub 








Reasons to remove or keep clock as an event · Issue #848 · thewca/wca-regulations


Here is a list of pros and cons for what happens if clock is removed as an event Positive outcomes of removing Clock Clocks easily fall over or have their pin state messed up in transit so clocks b...




github.com


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Nov 3, 2019)

I would argue that clock is objectively worse than feet and yet feet is being removed, therefore I think it is likely clock will be removed. 
Having said this I think both events are good and the reasons to have them removed are not stronger than the reasons to be kept and Currently believe no WCA events should be removed


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 3, 2019)

With the Angstrom one coming out soon though it might all change. Moyu and Qiyi may even follow suit and make their own clocks


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## Underwatercuber (Nov 3, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> With the Angstrom one coming out soon though it might all change. Moyu and Qiyi may even follow suit and make their own clocks


Not sure, just looking at some of the random pics people are posting I’m not sure if they know what they are doing


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## Underwatercuber (Nov 4, 2019)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> I would argue that clock is objectively worse than feet and yet feet is being removed, therefore I think it is likely clock will be removed.
> Having said this I think both events are good and the reasons to have them removed are not stronger than the reasons to be kept and Currently believe no WCA events should be removed


If you have to argue it then it’s probably not objective


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Nov 4, 2019)

Underwatercuber said:


> Not sure, just looking at some of the random pics people are posting I’m not sure if they know what they are doing


where have you seen thoselol


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## Underwatercuber (Nov 4, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> where have you seen thoselol


On Facebook, they only had a magnet on one side of the pin and didn’t remove the metal rods lol


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## TipsterTrickster (Nov 4, 2019)

I think clock will remain an event for the following reasons. It IS a twisty puzzle, I mean you twist it and its a puzzle lol. It's not like any other event, feet is like 3x3 and OH, but clock is completely unique. Its gaining popularity, I've seen a ton of people get into clock over the past year, and with the angstrom clock coming out I think its popularity will only continue to rise, however with feet, its popularity hasn't been high at all (at least until they announced its removal). Lastly its a challenging event to get good at, making competitions sometimes unpredictable due to someone good dnfing their average. Lastly its a pretty beginner friendly event, It required no algs and I learned how to do it in 2 minutes completely intuitively.


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## Underwatercuber (Nov 4, 2019)

TipsterTrickster said:


> I think clock will remain an event for the following reasons. It IS a twisty puzzle, I mean you twist it and its a puzzle lol. It's not like any other event, feet is like 3x3 and OH, but clock is completely unique. Its gaining popularity, I've seen a ton of people get into clock over the past year, and with the angstrom clock coming out I think its popularity will only continue to rise, however with feet, its popularity hasn't been high at all (at least until they announced its removal). Lastly its a challenging event to get good at, making competitions sometimes unpredictable due to someone good dnfing their average. Lastly its a pretty beginner friendly event, It required no algs and I learned how to do it in 2 minutes completely intuitively.


Not a twisty puzzle by most definitions.

I’m interested to see how much it is grown compared to other events, I made a post in wca statistics and will give and update if anyone gives me numbers.

not really challenging at all lol, it’s just practice, learning a few of the basics and spamming comps

that’s one of my least favorite things about clock, it’s overly simple. Unlike other puzzles though it’s trivial on all levels. At least for Pyra you can move up from Bob burtons method to LBL to L4E and you can learn a bunch of stuff, Clock you learn almost nothing.


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## Tabe (Nov 4, 2019)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> I would argue that clock is objectively worse than feet


I would love to hear your reasons.


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## ProStar (Nov 4, 2019)

I personally have no preference for clock as an event, I don't pay much attention to it. However, I'd like it kept(and feet as well, but thats another discussion), as there are people who have put a lot of time into it and like it.


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## ketchupcuber (Mar 4, 2020)

if you think about it clock is just to weird all, other events are cube shaped and the clocks a circle it just has no relevance to cubing, its just a random puzzle someone threw in there without thought. J perm said if a puzzle was not there and there were requests to add it would it make sense to add it or not. Frankly if people were proposing to add clock i guarantee we would think it a ridiculous idea


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## ProStar (Mar 4, 2020)

ketchupcuber said:


> if you think about it clock is just to weird all, other events are cube shaped and the clocks a circle it just has no relevance to cubing, its just a random puzzle someone threw in there without thought. J perm said if a puzzle was not there and there were requests to add it would it make sense to add it or not. Frankly if people were proposing to add clock i guarantee we would think it a ridiculous idea



Yeah and a lot of people would say that adding 7x7 and even 6x6 is stupid because we already have 2-5, but we aren't removing them now. Also, #BrodoBumpVirus is spreading to others lol


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## RiceMan_ (Mar 4, 2020)

I don't like clock but I know there's a lot of people who like the event so I don't think it should be removed from WCA.


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## ElephantCuber (Mar 4, 2020)

I personally love clock, and it is by far my best event, and If it were removed, I would lose motivation to cube


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## AbsoRuud (Mar 5, 2020)

ketchupcuber said:


> if you think about it clock is just to weird all, other events are cube shaped and the clocks a circle it just has no relevance to cubing, its just a random puzzle someone threw in there without thought. J perm said if a puzzle was not there and there were requests to add it would it make sense to add it or not. Frankly if people were proposing to add clock i guarantee we would think it a ridiculous idea


All other events are cube shaped. Pyraminx. (Cough)

Obviously, Clock was added because it's a puzzle that you can speedsolve, which was originally introduced by Rubik's, like the Magic and Master Magic. The Magic and Master Magic were removed because the competition wasn't about solving, but about who could do the exact same step the fastest. It's one alg. That has nothing to do with solving. Clock can be scrambled into a random state and it can be solved. It's a great puzzle, I've enjoyed it for over 30 years and I enjoy it today.


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## ProStar (Mar 5, 2020)

AbsoRuud said:


> All other events are cube shaped. Pyraminx. (Cough)
> 
> Obviously, Clock was added because it's a puzzle that you can speedsolve, which was originally introduced by Rubik's, like the Magic and Master Magic. The Magic and Master Magic were removed because the competition wasn't about solving, but about who could do the exact same step the fastest. It's one alg. That has nothing to do with solving. Clock can be scrambled into a random state and it can be solved. It's a great puzzle, I've enjoyed it for over 30 years and I enjoy it today.



To be fair, when someone(not just a non-cuber) looks a clock, there's no way they'd think it was a twisty puzzle


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## AbsoRuud (Mar 5, 2020)

Saying that Clock is not a twisty puzzle makes absolutely no sense. 

Definition of twist: to rotate around a stationary point; turn. 

Hey look, the clock has dials, they rotate around a stationary point. They turn.


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## ProStar (Mar 5, 2020)

AbsoRuud said:


> Saying that Clock is not a twisty puzzle makes absolutely no sense.
> 
> Definition of twist: to rotate around a stationary point; turn.
> 
> Hey look, the clock has dials, they rotate around a stationary point. They turn.



As a certified cuber(I'm talking about you), I must ask you something. Imagine yourself as a cuber still, but having never seen a clock. You go to a competition and see one. Would you think that was a twisty puzzle? There's no layers to turn, heck, not even individual layers at all. Just gears with a weird bumpy thing on the corners of the circle. What? Also, you've been asked to run for this competition. You grab the....circle..., put it in it's cover, and..... it falls out!! Ok, now you're going to another competition. This time, you signed up for clock! You sit down, say "ready", and your judge takes off the 3D printed, specially made cover from the clock. Aaaannndd...... it falls over!


This being said, I don't really want to go through the people raging if clock gets removed, it's not worth it. There are still people angry about feet. So I'd just rather keep it over having that happen again


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## AbsoRuud (Mar 5, 2020)

I think your logic is so immensely flawed that I am going to choose to no longer reply.


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## ProStar (Mar 5, 2020)

AbsoRuud said:


> I think your logic is so immensely flawed that I am going to choose to no longer reply.



Saying my logic is flawed, but giving no proof and simply using the age-old comeback of "I'm just not even going to reply" isn't even an answer to what I said. Unless you can't answer it, in which your entire statement was a lie, there's no reason not to respond to my argument


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## PetrusQuber (Mar 5, 2020)

To be clear, I am not trying to support or to not support Prostar, just joining the Reactaloution.


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## Kit Clement (Mar 5, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Saying my logic is flawed, but giving no proof and simply using the age-old comeback of "I'm just not even going to reply" isn't even an answer to what I said. Unless you can't answer it, in which your entire statement was a lie, there's no reason not to respond to my argument



Then make arguments that are based on actual logic rather than what you feel should be a twisty puzzle.


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## ProStar (Mar 5, 2020)

Kit Clement said:


> Then make arguments that are based on actual logic rather than what you feel should be a twisty puzzle.



"The World Cube Association governs competitions for mechanical puzzles that are operated by twisting groups of pieces, commonly known as 'twisty puzzles'. The most famous of these puzzles is the Rubik's Cube, invented by professor Rubik from Hungary. A selection of these puzzles are chosen as official events of the WCA."

Turning a dial isn't technically twisting groups of pieces. And a pin isn't twisted at all. If you want to say the clock faces move, they're never actually touched by the solver. The solver simply turns a singular piece(dial) and pushes pins up and down


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## WarriorCatCuber (Mar 5, 2020)

No clock is my favourite event I can't let it get removed.


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## Kit Clement (Mar 5, 2020)

ProStar said:


> "The World Cube Association governs competitions for mechanical puzzles that are operated by twisting groups of pieces, commonly known as 'twisty puzzles'. The most famous of these puzzles is the Rubik's Cube, invented by professor Rubik from Hungary. A selection of these puzzles are chosen as official events of the WCA."
> 
> Turning a dial isn't technically twisting groups of pieces. And a pin isn't twisted at all. If you want to say the clock faces move, they're never actually touched by the solver. The solver simply turns a singular piece(dial) and pushes pins up and down



Turning a dial does exactly that? A set of dials all rotate when a corner dial is turned, which sounds exactly like a group of pieces that are twisted. And the pins do twist, even if that is irrelevant in terms of the solved state. You're talking about if it _feels_ like a twisty puzzle again, and ignoring the definition put squarely in your face.


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## ProStar (Mar 5, 2020)

Honestly, I don't even want clock removed. No just because of the backlash that will occur, but just because I don't care. It isn't really hurting the WCA, some people just think it looks weird(which I do agree with). I was kind of playing devil's advocate, giving reasons why it could be removed. That being said, I still don't think clock is much of a twisty puzzle, but I think it's pointless to remove now. It's like 6x6 and 7x7, many people would say now not to add it, but no one wants it removed


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## kubesolver (Mar 5, 2020)

I also think similarly to prostar.
It's cubing association. Cubing. Solving cubes. 
For me and i think a big part of general public WCA is the Rubik's Magic Cube aka 3x3x3 plus variations of it. 
Smaller, bigger, solving weird way, turning weird ways, other cuboids all fit. 
Clock doesn't fit. It's here because it comes from the same toy company which produced first 3x3.
The only way it might look like it fits is that it has been here for a long time, people got used to it and came up with their definition of a suitable puzzle that includes a clock.
But because it's been here for a while and doesn't hurt anyone I think it's ok for it to stay.


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## ProStar (Mar 5, 2020)

kubesolver said:


> I also think similarly to prostar.
> It's cubing association. Cubing. Solving cubes.
> For me and i think a big part of general public WCA is the Rubik's Magic Cube aka 3x3x3 plus variations of it.
> Smaller, bigger, solving weird way, turning weird ways, other cuboids all fit.
> ...



I agree. I don't think it should have been added to the WCA in the first place, but there's no reason to remove it.


Also, @Kit Clement you've said multiple times you think clock is stupid. Were we both playing devil's advocate?


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## Kit Clement (Mar 5, 2020)

I do think clock is a stupid event, but I don't think it should be removed. The argument that it's not a twisty puzzle is completely bogus though, because nobody has a clear definition of what a twisty puzzle is. People usually go to some definition of "twist" and clock clearly fits the definition of that. There's surely something intuitively different about clock compared to other WCA puzzles, but it's not that it doesn't belong with twisty puzzles.


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## ProStar (Mar 5, 2020)

Kit Clement said:


> I do think clock is a stupid event, but I don't think it should be removed. The argument that it's not a twisty puzzle is completely bogus though, because nobody has a clear definition of what a twisty puzzle is. People usually go to some definition of "twist" and clock clearly fits the definition of that. There's surely something intuitively different about clock compared to other WCA puzzles, but it's not that it doesn't belong with twisty puzzles.



I think I'm of your opinion; I think clock is stupid but it shouldn't be removed


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## RPerm (2020GOME05) (Dec 9, 2020)

Hello if we remove clock we’re going to remove half of the community.


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## BenChristman1 (Dec 9, 2020)

RPerm (2020GOME05) said:


> Hello if we remove clock we’re going to remove half of the community.


First of all, half of the community does not do clock, and second, why did you bump a 9-month-old thread?


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## MJS Cubing (Dec 9, 2020)

RPerm (2020GOME05) said:


> Hello if we remove clock we’re going to remove half of the community.


if clock gets removed the half of the community is in outrage, unlike feet, where only a small portion liked the event.


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## Hazel (Dec 9, 2020)

MJS Cubing said:


> if clock gets removed the half of the community is in outrage, unlike feet, where only a small portion liked the event.


Even though few people competed in feet, more than half the community _was _outraged at the removal of feet.


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## ProStar (Dec 9, 2020)

Aerma said:


> Even though few people competed in feet, more than half the community _was _outraged at the removal of feet.



That's true, but also ridiculous. If you don't care about the event enough to do it, then why are you mad when it gets removed? For stuff like BLD, it makes sense to have low participation, because it's hard. But the barrier to participation is very low for Feet, as pretty much anyone who can solve a 3x3 could do feet


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## DNF_Cuber (Dec 9, 2020)

ProStar said:


> That's true, but also ridiculous. If you don't care about the event enough to do it, then why are you mad when it gets removed? For stuff like BLD, it makes sense to have low participation, because it's hard. But the barrier to participation is very low for Feet, as pretty much anyone who can solve a 3x3 could do feet


It's kind of like how if you don't live in sudan, you can still wish they had more water and try to do something about it


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## ProStar (Dec 9, 2020)

DNF_Cuber said:


> It's kind of like how if you don't live in sudan, you can still wish they had more water and try to do something about it



That's a flawed analogy. Anyone can start doing 3x3 with feet if they know how to solve a 3x3. Not everybody can move to Sudan / are in a poverty situation. In your example, people are helping their fellow humans who need it. In this situation, people are whining about something they don't care enough about to actually do.


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## Hazel (Dec 9, 2020)

ProStar said:


> That's true, but also ridiculous. If you don't care about the event enough to do it, then why are you mad when it gets removed? For stuff like BLD, it makes sense to have low participation, because it's hard. But the barrier to participation is very low for Feet, as pretty much anyone who can solve a 3x3 could do feet


I don't personally enjoy solving cubes with my feet, but I know others do, and it's unfair to take that as an official event away from people without adequate reason (which there wasn't). If an organizer thinks it's gross, nobody's making them include it in their competition. Competitors who think it's weird don't have to compete in it.


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## the dnf master (Dec 9, 2020)

Aerma said:


> I don't personally enjoy solving cubes with my feet, but I know others do, and it's unfair to take that as an official event away from people without adequate reason (which there wasn't). If an organizer thinks it's gross, nobody's making them include it in their competition. Competitors who think it's weird don't have to compete in it.


I feel like Clock is not really different from Rubiks Magic in the sense that it isn't a cubic puzzle, nor a turning puzzle. If magic got removed why didn't clock?


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## PetraPine (Dec 9, 2020)

the dnf master said:


> I feel like Clock is not really different from Rubiks Magic in the sense that it isn't a cubic puzzle, nor a turning puzzle. If magic got removed why didn't clock?


magic is MUCH MUCH more predictable and that's prob why it was removed,
also the solving method if you can even call it that is uninteresting and extremely short.
the clocks method is also kinda stupidly simple but at least a little less dumb.


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## ProStar (Dec 9, 2020)

the dnf master said:


> I feel like Clock is not really different from Rubiks Magic in the sense that it isn't a cubic puzzle, nor a turning puzzle. If magic got removed why didn't clock?



That's not why Magic & Master Magic were removed.



Kit Clement said:


> The WCA was formed in 2004 for the purpose of having independently run competitions, not necessarily tied to Rubik's. There were many irregularities in the 2003 World's that was run by Rubik's (time formats, how scrambles were generated, allowed puzzles, etc.) that the core community wanted to establish autonomy and run more local events in a fairer and more organized way. While many of the "Rubik's" branded puzzles did persist because they were at that 2003 event, WCA was not completely friendly with Rubik's, and fought for puzzle autonomy when Rubik's wanted only their brand to be used at the world championships in 2005 and 2007. By no means did Rubik's have any influence on the creation of the WCA.
> Magic was at the time a very popular event in terms of participation. By the time it was removed in 2012, 4928 competitors had a result in the event. For comparison, Pyraminx, a very popular event today, had 4390 competitors with a result by the end of 2012. Whether those competitors were actually enthused or excited for that event is another question (and overall, they probably weren't).
> Rubik's Magic was being mass produced by Rubik's and still is today. (https://www.rubiks.com/en-us/rubik-s-magic.html)
> While the triviality of the puzzle was one of the two main reasons it was removed, the far more important one that led to its removal is the incredible difficulty in judging legal timer starts and stops for such a fast event. The other two reasons you gave are just not relevant to the removal of Magic. (https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/archive/forum_topics/1013)



This quote is from a different conversation, but still relevant


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Dec 9, 2020)

I am pro-clock. I think that with the improved hardware now clock will become more competitive, and that’s a good thing. If I’m right, and when we can compete again clock does get more competitive, there is absolutely no reason to remove it. The last barrier to entry (good hardware) is gone, and it can start coming into its own.


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## RiceMan_ (Dec 9, 2020)

I think clock is a good event and I think that WCA should add more events like clock


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## Ravagerous (Dec 10, 2020)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> I am pro-clock. I think that with the improved hardware now clock will become more competitive, and that’s a good thing. If I’m right, and when we can compete again clock does get more competitive, there is absolutely no reason to remove it. The last barrier to entry (good hardware) is gone, and it can start coming into its own.


Good point.


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## CrispyCubing (Dec 10, 2020)

RiceMan_ said:


> I think that WCA should add more events like clock


Why? Like what is it about clock that we need more of through different events. Also, what non-WCA events are like clock?


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## Cubingcubecuber (Dec 10, 2020)

CrispyCubing said:


> Why? Like what is it about clock that we need more of through different events. Also, what non-WCA events are like clock?


4x4 clock?


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## RiceMan_ (Dec 10, 2020)

CrispyCubing said:


> Why? Like what is it about clock that we need more of through different events. Also, what non-WCA events are like clock?


like puzzles that are not turning puzzles


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## Nir1213 (Dec 10, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> 4x4 clock?


megaminx clonk? Could be an idea


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## Eamon (Dec 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> megaminx clonk? Could be an idea


i wonder how a squan clock would look like


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## CrispyCubing (Dec 10, 2020)

RiceMan_ said:


> like puzzles that are not turning puzzles


So we need jigsaw puzzles... /s

I assume you mean not conventional turning puzzles like the 15 puzzle. But I feel like once you get into these kinds of events there isn't much of a following and the events just get farther and farther away from a normal 3x3. Clock is already not like a normal cubic puzzle and although you can make the argument that variation is good, imo clock is getting close to the edge of_ too_ unrelated.


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## Deleted member 54663 (Dec 10, 2020)

I think the qiyi 15 puzzle/klotski is also fun.


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## RPerm (2020GOME05) (Dec 15, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> First of all, half of the community does not do clock, and second, why did you bump a 9-month-old thread?


I was bored but that’s not an excuse but if we do remove clock then we won’t know how many cubers will leave because they removed it.



BenChristman1 said:


> First of all, half of the community does not do clock, and second, why did you bump a 9-month-old thread?


what I’m trying to say is if we remove clock we’re going to remove some people that like clock and also there are tons of cubers out there doing clock so if the wca removed it then there’s no way of knowing how many are going to quit.

I don’t even know why people don’t like clock


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## BenChristman1 (Dec 15, 2020)

RPerm (2020GOME05) said:


> what I’m trying to say is if we remove clock we’re going to remove some people that like clock and also there are tons of cubers out there doing clock so if the wca removed it then there’s no way of knowing how many are going to quit.


Nobody is going to quit cubing just because Clock got removed. Do you know of anybody who quit when Feet got removed?

Nice triple post, by the way.


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## RPerm (2020GOME05) (Dec 15, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> Nobody is going to quit cubing just because Clock got removed. Do you know of anybody who quit when Feet got removed?
> 
> Nice triple post, by the way.


Not really but clock is already a big event to some people and also we shouldn’t even be removing events anyway.

Removing events is unnecessary


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## abunickabhi (Dec 18, 2020)

Clock is an interesting event. I would love to see people trying out clock variants like 4x4 clock, and get it more popular and hopefully introduced to the WCA in the coming years.


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## RoundUpCubing (Jan 13, 2021)

abunickabhi said:


> Clock is an interesting event. I would love to see people trying out clock variants like 4x4 clock, and get it more popular and hopefully introduced to the WCA in the coming years.


4x4 clock sounds amazing! only ever solved virtual clocks, theyre fun but a bit too easy, 4x4 clock might be interesting. or 'cuboid' clocks, like 4x3? 5x2? would be very interesting!


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## ProStar (Jan 13, 2021)

I've changed my mind. Clock is fun. All previous negative statements retracted.


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## RoundUpCubing (Jan 13, 2021)

also a bit more on topic, i recently had a conversation about this with a friend who is a delegate, and they said that there are no plans on removing clock. its a controversial event, but unlike magic its an actual puzzle that can be scrambled.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 13, 2021)

RoundUpCubing said:


> unlike magic its an actual puzzle that can be scrambled.


I object to the claim that magic is not an actual puzzle that can be scrambled. It most certainly can be scrambled. Unfortunately, no one has ever written a decent scramble program for it, because it seems quite hard both to write it and to represent the moves with an appropriate notation. But my memories of helping by "fixing" people's Magics at WCA competitions years ago when they messed them up prove quite nicely that a Magic can be scrambled and can be a somewhat challenging puzzle to solve.


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## RoundUpCubing (Jan 13, 2021)

Mike Hughey said:


> I object to the claim that magic is not an actual puzzle that can be scrambled. It most certainly can be scrambled. Unfortunately, no one has ever written a decent scramble program for it, because it seems quite hard both to write it and to represent the moves with an appropriate notation. But my memories of helping by "fixing" people's Magics at WCA competitions years ago when they messed them up prove quite nicely that a Magic can be scrambled and can be a somewhat challenging puzzle to solve.



In that case, why did they not just scramble the magic from the start? Couldnt have been changed due to records existing already, but this has to have come up in their minds when adding the magic...


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## DNF_Cuber (Jan 13, 2021)

RoundUpCubing said:


> In that case, why did they not just scramble the magic from the start? Couldnt have been changed due to records existing already, but this has to have come up in their minds when adding the magic...


There wasn't a notation


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## Deleted member 55877 (Jan 14, 2021)

I want a good clonk but i can't afford the qiyi... 

i really hope yj makes a good, cheaper clonk


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## DNF_Cuber (Jan 14, 2021)

Alex Davison said:


> I want a good clonk but i can't afford the qiyi...
> 
> i really hope yj makes a good, cheaper clonk


Moyu akwardly in the corner:
But seriously, moyu did tease a clock once.


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## Kit Clement (Jan 14, 2021)

RoundUpCubing said:


> In that case, why did they not just scramble the magic from the start? Couldnt have been changed due to records existing already, but this has to have come up in their minds when adding the magic...



In the post you _directly_ quoted:



Mike Hughey said:


> Unfortunately, no one has ever written a decent scramble program for it, because it seems quite hard both to write it and to represent the moves with an appropriate notation.


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## abunickabhi (Jan 14, 2021)

RoundUpCubing said:


> 4x4 clock sounds amazing! only ever solved virtual clocks, theyre fun but a bit too easy, 4x4 clock might be interesting. or 'cuboid' clocks, like 4x3? 5x2? would be very interesting!


I have never heard of cuboid clocks before. Are they fun to solve, or they are just super weird to deal with? Are there virtual cuboid clocks?


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## RoundUpCubing (Jan 14, 2021)

abunickabhi said:


> I have never heard of cuboid clocks before. Are they fun to solve, or they are just super weird to deal with? Are there virtual cuboid clocks?



I have no idea! Theyre just a crazy idea haha, they will likely be quite unique


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