# Dan Brown gets owned by Thunderf00t



## Tortin (Mar 5, 2010)

I figured I'd post this because I found it kind of funny, and it's Dan Brown.
And, of course, Thunderf00t makes some very good points.


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## 04mucklowd (Mar 5, 2010)

Yep I do think that Dan Brown can be a bit of an idiot at times


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 5, 2010)

Hopefully some of his subscribers will listen. Less competition for me in the job markets in a few years.


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## Muesli (Mar 5, 2010)

I love that I'm associated with this guy via geography


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## GojiraFan13 (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks for posting this. He layed the smacketh down on Dan's candy .......


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## Edward (Mar 5, 2010)

Skip the crap and go straight to 2:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI4U17EKk0g


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## Khartaras (Mar 5, 2010)

Tortin said:


> I figured I'd post this because I found it kind of funny, and it's Dan Brown.
> And, of course, Thunderf00t makes some very good points.



PWNED.


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## Chapuunka (Mar 5, 2010)

I love the guy's accent.


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## Litz (Mar 5, 2010)

I had nothing against him but he seriously got rolled. And I don't agree with him at all.


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## qqwref (Mar 5, 2010)

Haha, Dan got pwned.

Education is all about understanding and it is his job as a student to get the understanding out of the facts. If he can't do that, the problem is not in the education system.


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## Bryan (Mar 5, 2010)

Hmmm.....my CEO doesn't know my name. When he comes, he just talks to a huge room of us. And guess what, none of us cry about it, and it still works.


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## Zarxrax (Mar 6, 2010)

Well, I am a university graduate, and I can say with certainty, that for me personally, college didn't teach me jack. It just gave me a piece of paper that says I'm a better job candidate than someone who doesn't have that paper. (although in this job market, even that piece of paper doesn't seem to be helping me...)

Since graduating though, I have had time to actually begin studying, learning, and understanding lots of things (mostly languages, I'm doing both Japanese and Russian at the moment). It's truly amazing what you can learn when you don't have school to get in the way.


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## fundash (Mar 6, 2010)

PWND!!!
seriously...
O_O


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## CanadianPires (Mar 6, 2010)

Funny stuff, though its kind of apples and oranges. Dan is a poli sci major and Thunderf00t draws all of his counter arguments from hard sciences. Not saying that I agree with Dan, just pointing it out. A social science degree is a great deal different than a hard science degree. So, if Thunderf00t wants to really make a fool of Dan, he should argue from Dan's point of view.


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## KJiptner (Mar 6, 2010)

"my schooling was interferring with my education". That reminded me of a close friend of mine who said similar things, dropped out and now basically spends his time reading all day long. He is quite convinced that this is educating him a lot more than university. I'm quite sure it does from his point of view. 

The guy in the response makes good points for sure. But I dislike how he is pumping up his points with unessesary "triing-to-be-complex" and weird acting that appears to me like sheer arrogance.


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## Innocence (Mar 6, 2010)

While I agree that some parts of education are useless, like primary(elementary) school, I definitely do not think that university is useless. One thing that Dan misses is that most university subjects aren't just "memorizing facts", and almost all of them have some sort of practical element to them. And as Michael said, it's all about understanding the facts that you memorize.

With that said, I do not think that his dropping out of university will hinder him in anyway from doing what he wants to do. Dan is definitely a smart guy, just a tad mislead.

NOTE: Everything above this point was said before watching the video in the OP. I will add some post-video insight below this point.


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## Bryan (Mar 6, 2010)

CanadianPires said:


> Funny stuff, though its kind of apples and oranges. Dan is a poli sci major and Thunderf00t draws all of his counter arguments from hard sciences.



Well, if Dan wants someone to argue about political science, then perhaps he should, I don't know, actually mention it?


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## Escher (Mar 6, 2010)

Dan Brown needs to get a real D/C2 level job. Then he might realise the value of going to University.


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## Zubon (Mar 6, 2010)

In my job now, I rarely use any of the things that I learned in the 5 years that I studied Math, Physics and Engineering at university. Most of the technical stuff I need for my job, I learned on the job.

However, what it did teach me was to think like a mathematician/physicist/engineer. It gave me critical thinking skills and made me look at the world in a different light. It was the best thing that I could have done.

Studying any course at university makes you associate with generally intelligent people and a lot of their ways of thinking get passed to you and you become 'intelligent'.

Even if you don't learn anything, the unfortunate truth is that in society today, if you don't have a degree, you won't get very far. Sure there are a LOT of high profile exceptions to this but the general reality is that these days, it is hard to get a start with only a high school level education.

I am a subscriber to Thunderf00t and I love his rational videos. Although I think he was a little hard on the juvenile Dan Brown.


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## RyanO (Mar 6, 2010)

Both sides have some good points. There are a lot of degrees offered at university that will never pay off the costs and time spent on that education. If you are pursuing one of these degrees you are wasting your time and money. You can learn about things you are interested in on your own time for free. I know plenty of people who are going to college just because their parents want them to. I think people should put a lot more thought in if and why they should go to college.

That being said, I certainly don't think a university education is useless. There are plenty of degree programs that will easily pay for themselves over the course of your career. Also lots of jobs require a college education, so in some cases it is justifiable to get a degree that will never be profitable, but I have a hard time understanding why people do this.


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 6, 2010)

Innocence said:


> While I agree that some parts of education are useless, like primary(elementary) school



WHAT?!!?!?!?!?!
Just think about the stuff you learned in elementary school. Almost all of it is the base of everything you need today. Without elementary school knowledge, it would hardly even be possible to function in society. Basic math, reading, writing, sentence structure. How is any of this not useful?


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 6, 2010)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Innocence said:
> 
> 
> > While I agree that some parts of education are useless, like primary(elementary) school
> ...



cuz liek... everone noez how tu spall aned aad. I skiped grad 1 tu 6 becuz i wuz ahed uf may claz.
Elementary school does have its uses though. It's not like you can introduce the basics of algebra a couple years after a small child has entered school.


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## Innocence (Mar 6, 2010)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Innocence said:
> 
> 
> > While I agree that some parts of education are useless, like primary(elementary) school
> ...



The truth is that if you were to stay at home and simply use your time playing etc. then you would simply learn it by yourself anyway. My brother was schooled basically that way, and he's way above his level in high school type stuff.

It goes by the principle that kids have a drive to learn, and they're going to learn something whether you help them or not.

I don't really expect anyone to believe me 100%, as we would rather it isn't true, for obvious reasons. Look it up if you actually care.


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## Dene (Mar 6, 2010)

Firstly, I want to say that you are completely wrong, Innocence. I need not give reasons, other than what you are saying makes no sense whatsoever. 

Secondly, I want to say that Dan Brown has a point; what need has he for a degree?


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## Innocence (Mar 6, 2010)

Dene said:


> Firstly, I want to say that you are completely wrong, Innocence. I need not give reasons, other than what you are saying makes no sense whatsoever.



Lulwut.



Dene said:


> Secondly, I want to say that Dan Brown has a point; what need has he for a degree?



Maybe because a degree can get you a job?


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## hatter (Mar 6, 2010)

I agree with Zubon. I'm a sophomore optical engineering major and I definitely think that a lot of the things I will need for a job I will learn at the job. However, the entire point of education is not to simply learn but to learn how to learn. I am in lab over 10 hours a week for my degree, and will I ever be paid to repeat any of those labs? I doubt it. However, the labs are teaching me how to think like an engineer, just as my homework and lecture "scribbles" as Dan says, are teaching me how to think, or learn, like an engineer.


Perhaps the most important part about school, though, is to learn to do something you don't like [like sit in a lecture hall with lots of people in front of a guy who doesn't know your name for an hour, as Dan points out] because, in the real world you will be put in situations you don't like and if you can't handle it I'm sure the real world would be more than happy to let you go.


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## Zarxrax (Mar 6, 2010)

Zubon said:


> Studying any course at university makes you associate with generally intelligent people and a lot of their ways of thinking get passed to you and you become 'intelligent'.



I wish that had been the case. At my university, I was constantly astounded by the sheer stupidity of some people. Whenever I would have to work on a paper with a group, my teammates would often demonstrate that they didn't have more than a 5th grade level grammar ability. I would always have to go through and try to understand what people had written, fix their fragments, fix their misused homonyms, misspellings, incorrect words...
I still have nightmares about it :|


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## Neo63 (Mar 6, 2010)

LOL pwnage


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## Zarxrax (Mar 6, 2010)

hatter said:


> However, the entire point of education is not to simply learn but to learn how to learn. I am in lab over 10 hours a week for my degree, and will I ever be paid to repeat any of those labs? I doubt it. However, the labs are teaching me how to think like an engineer, just as my homework and lecture "scribbles" as Dan says, are teaching me how to think, or learn, like an engineer.



School doesn't teach you how to learn. Especially not college. In fact, most people really don't know how to learn quickly and efficiently. Methods generally taught in school are quite horrible.

I can _kind of_ see the point people say about it teaching you how to think, but... I also studied engineering for a few years, and honestly, I think I learned more about engineering from watching "Mythbusters" than I ever learned in a college classroom.


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## infringement153 (Mar 6, 2010)

Zarxrax said:


> Zubon said:
> 
> 
> > Studying any course at university makes you associate with generally intelligent people and a lot of their ways of thinking get passed to you and you become 'intelligent'.
> ...



Please expand.


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## LNZ (Mar 6, 2010)

Here in Australia, we are having a big debate right now of what people should be taught at school. The federal government wants to create a national cirrulclum to replace all 9 state and terrority ones for students from reception (K in the USA) to Year 12 (12th grade in the USA). 

So Dan Brown raises some great arguments. 

It is the very cynical over sexed and bored adults that will decide what is taught. And the beliefs and prejudices of such people will factor in it too.

Almost every one agrees on the bits to be taught in maths, science ad english. But in the subject called history is where the major dis agreements start. No one can agree to the same cirruclum for this subject.

Personally, I passed all my primary school subjects with a C average. Which is very good considering all my learning disabilities I had to face up to and the loss of 305 days of school without tutoring or remidal programs like the McDonalds Learning Program we have now.

I attended primary school from 1975 to 1982. Ray Croc (co founder of McDonalds) died in 1984. His will created the Ronald McDonald House Charities of which the Learning Program is a part of.

I passed almost high school subjects with a C or better average. But it was in english where I truly struggled. I got a C- average for Year 10, failed with a D- aveage in Year 11 and dropped the subject all together in Year 12.


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## reThinking the Cube (Mar 6, 2010)

How many of you have cubing diplomas?

[youtube]bVZoVQuwqLc [/youtube]

UNpwned!


.
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.
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[youtube]ZKci3_cmlqI [/youtube]
[youtube]ZJPRtOq-msc [/youtube]
[youtube]Eo75-8MAEoc [/youtube]
[youtube]H1J9KR1_vhk [/youtube]

You can learn more about the meaning of a real education here -
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/


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## Dene (Mar 6, 2010)

Innocence said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > Secondly, I want to say that Dan Brown has a point; what need has he for a degree?
> ...



Did you completely ignore him when he said that he was already making a lot of money?



LNZ said:


> I passed almost high school subjects with a C or better average. But it was in english where I truly struggled. I got a C- average for Year 10, failed with a D- aveage in Year 11 and dropped the subject all together in Year 12.



And the grammar used throughout your post makes this very clear. Until you said this, I was almost in disbelief at your statement that you went to school in the 70's and 80's. I usually expect an adult to have better grammar.


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## Innocence (Mar 6, 2010)

Dene said:


> Innocence said:
> 
> 
> > Dene said:
> ...



I never said that you couldn't make money without a degree. All I'm saying is that having a qualification of some sort will give you an advantage over someone who hasn't. That's why I'm doing an incredibly basic IT course right now.


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## tim (Mar 6, 2010)

Zarxrax said:


> Well, I am a university graduate, and I can say with certainty, that for me personally, college didn't teach me jack. It just gave me a piece of paper that says I'm a better job candidate than someone who doesn't have that paper. (although in this job market, even that piece of paper doesn't seem to be helping me...)



That's exactly how i feel after i have been studying computer science for almost 4 years now. I've learnt almost everything i know about it from reading books, the internez or playing around at home. So i kinda understand Dan's point.
And like Kai, i also think the response was too arrogant. He really shouldn't use words like "moron" if he's trying to make a valid point.


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## Tyrannous (Mar 6, 2010)

Innocence said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > Innocence said:
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That is true, at Queens University Belfast, a study was done over the country and shown that people who have a degree would make *on average* 30% more than people who dont.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 6, 2010)

Tyrannous said:


> Innocence said:
> 
> 
> > Dene said:
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Surely Dan wouldn't be representing those figures.


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## Tyrannous (Mar 6, 2010)

aznmortalx said:


> Tyrannous said:
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> > Innocence said:
> ...



didnt say he was, i was merely showing the generalisation that qualified people tend to get higher paid jobs than ones who dont, hence why average was said above.


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## Cride5 (Mar 6, 2010)

Below is a bit of a blurb, so to summarise: A good university will allow you to learn a far greater amount than you'd ever learn from home, surfing the web.

The explanatory blurb... 



Innocence said:


> The truth is that if you were to stay at home and simply use your time playing etc. then you would simply learn it by yourself anyway. My brother was schooled basically that way, and he's way above his level in high school type stuff.
> 
> It goes by the principle that kids have a drive to learn, and they're going to learn something whether you help them or not.



From your earliest years in school, to the most advanced studies and eventually academic research there is a gradual trend towards moving from 'spoon fed' education towards self directed learning. Moving from School (teenage education) to University there's a marked increase in encouraging more personal responsibility for your learning. This is perhaps why folks feel that they're not being 'taught' well in university. In reality university offers a vast range of resources for learning, including a carefully chosen syllabus, vast library of books and academic papers, and the opportunity to apply your understanding practically. All it takes is a student who 'wants' to learn. If you coast though uni you won't get anything out of it. Generally the more effort you put in, the more you'll get back.

As for learning from home, the main problem is knowing 'what' to learn and where to find the resources. Using the internet or Wikipedia will only scratch the surface of many subjects. The internet also contains a LOT of inaccurate, poorly cited and plainly incorrect information. Quality wise, its like the MacDonalds of information resources, and should never be used for anything more than a quick snack. Learning an academic subject requires reading of specialist text books and also research literature (depending on how far you want to go). These resources are very difficult to acquire without access to a university.



Zarxrax said:


> However, the entire point of education is not to simply learn but to learn how to learn.


Exactly. This is why undergraduates are not employed in academic or industrial research. It requires a proven ability to teach yourself up to the level of cutting edge science. Sitting surfing the web doesn't quite cut it.



hatter said:


> School doesn't teach you how to learn. Especially not college.


I think this is either because you are not in a good university or you're not motivated enough.

I can assure you there are Universities which teach very well.


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## ender9994 (Mar 6, 2010)

Perhaps this whole situation could have been avoided if he simply chose his college better. For me, I decided not to go to Cornell because it was too large and impersonal. Instead, I am attending Susquehanna University where a freshman chemistry lecture contains about 30 people and the professors know everyone's name within a few weeks. The point is that you have to know what type of college experience you "need" (perhaps want) and choose based on that.


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## Stefan (Mar 6, 2010)

Tyrannous said:


> at Queens University Belfast, a study was done over the country and shown that people who have a degree would make *on average* 30% more than people who dont.



What a surprise! The poor people and people who failed school way before university end up earning less than those capable to go to university! Shocker!

What was their result comparing people with a university degree with people who started but then dropped out, or at least could've started but just decided not to?


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## Dene (Mar 6, 2010)

Innocence said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > Innocence said:
> ...



How does this point have any relevance whatsoever to Dan's situation? I never said that having a qualification will not give you an advantage; look at me, I'm determined to get a PhD. I see no reason for my life other than to be a giant academic nerd. 

None of this has any relevance to the fact that Dan Brown is better off doing what he's doing and making a lot of money doing it, instead of wasting his time getting a degree that he is clearly not capable enough of.


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## Tortin (Mar 6, 2010)

Dene said:


> Innocence said:
> 
> 
> > Dene said:
> ...



The thing is that he's getting in front of a shitload of subscribers (and I'd guess that most of them are still in school) and making it sound like dropping out is a good idea.


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## JBCM627 (Mar 6, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> Tyrannous said:
> 
> 
> > people who have a degree would make *on average* 30% more than people who dont.
> ...


Median income is also usually more representative anyway...


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## reThinking the Cube (Mar 6, 2010)

JBCM627 said:


> StefanPochmann said:
> 
> 
> > Tyrannous said:
> ...



*FALSE!*
*PLEASE watch this video, and THEN answer the ACTUAL question above. *
[youtube]bVZoVQuwqLc [/youtube]

...


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## Escher (Mar 6, 2010)

Why does it always have to be about money?

Isn't gaining a degree and becoming an 'expert' in a field good enough reason in itself to go to University?


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## cmhardw (Mar 6, 2010)

This is a tough topic to comment on. I would not know nearly what I know about math nowadays if it wasn't for what I learned at University. I always would not speak German at anywhere near the level that I speak it now (and even now I still don't speak at a very high level). *However*, I really resent the mountain of debt I had to accumulate in order to attend University. Also, by choosing to only go to University, and not work, it took me 6 months to find a job after I graduated. The reason: no one would hire me, because although I had a degree I lacked work experience. My feelings on University are such a mixed bag.

Chris


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## aronpm (Mar 6, 2010)

reThinking the Cube said:


> JBCM627 said:
> 
> 
> > StefanPochmann said:
> ...



:fp Please, stop posting. With every single post you make, you are lowering the collective intelligence of this forum. Seriously, you are so 
azwsxedcrfvtgbyuhnjmik- sorry, my head rolled on the keyboard because you're so mind-numbingly stupid.


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## Zarxrax (Mar 6, 2010)

Escher said:


> Why does it always have to be about money?
> 
> Isn't gaining a degree and becoming an 'expert' in a field good enough reason in itself to go to University?



Getting a degree by no means makes you an expert at anything.


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## reThinking the Cube (Mar 6, 2010)

aronpm said:


> :fp Please, stop posting. With every single post you make, you are lowering the collective intelligence of this forum. Seriously, you are so
> azwsxedcrfvtgbyuhnjmik- sorry, my head rolled on the keyboard because you're so mind-numbingly stupid.



Yes - you should take your own advice, aron. Once again, without even bothering to read the previous posts, you are commenting, not to add value, but rather to just be a smart a** at someone else's expense. If you had actually taken the time to read (and comprehend) all of the earlier posts, then you would have seen some very valid, and intelligent reasons for those posts. On the other hand, it is childish smart a** posts like yours, that are really doing collective DAMAGE to this forum. Where is the "collective intelligence" in that?

Moderator(s): What *IS* the forum policy concerning "mind-numbingly stupid" posts like the one above, that are made solely for the purpose of conducting off-topic personal attacks?

...


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## Escher (Mar 6, 2010)

Zarxrax said:


> Escher said:
> 
> 
> > Why does it always have to be about money?
> ...



Hence "'expert'" 

What I'm trying to say is that I consider education valuable in itself, not about what monetary benefits you may or may not gain.


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## Edmund (Mar 6, 2010)

Escher said:


> Why does it always have to be about money?
> 
> Isn't gaining a degree and becoming an 'expert' in a field good enough reason in itself to go to University?



Well, because a degree alone doesn't pay the bills. But yes you are right knowledge is always good, no matter what the benefits are or are not.


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## qqwref (Mar 6, 2010)

reThinking the Cube said:


> Yes - you should take your own advice, aron. Once again, without even bothering to read the previous posts, you are commenting, not to add value, but rather to just be a smart a** at someone else's expense. If you had actually taken the time to read (and comprehend) all of the earlier posts, then you would have seen some very valid, and intelligent reasons for those posts. On the other hand, it is childish smart a** posts like yours, that are really doing collective DAMAGE to this forum. Where is the "collective intelligence" in that?
> 
> Moderator(s): What *IS* the forum policy concerning "mind-numbingly stupid" posts like the one above, that are made solely for the purpose of conducting off-topic personal attacks?
> 
> ...



Look, people don't dislike you because you're new or whatever. People dislike you because you're an arrogant ass. Shape up or enjoy your ban.


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## badmephisto (Mar 7, 2010)

Oh wow, this is so juicy

first of all btw, does noone else find Dan Brown incredibly annoying? The way he stares and the way he talks the way he waves his hands and the way he tries to look silly is just ... the most annoying thing to me. It was almost torture listening to his blabbing and not making any sense in the 2 of his videos, but I forced myself because this is so interesting to me 

Here is the true story: Dan Brown attended the university, happened to get a few bad teachers (also they didn't care what his name was! muffin!  ), did some intro stuff to his program that he didn't care about in the first place (probably philosophy or psychology or something) and decided that it was boring and that he wasn't learning anything and dropped. He didn't see it worthy of his time when he already has a popular channel going on and making money. But there is no need to make up ******** excuses of why he dropped and trying to convince others that he dropped for some other noble reason, or even attempt to open a debate on this issue.

Anyway, :fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp
There is no debate. He is flat out wrong and Thunderfoot points out the biggest flaw in his reasoning. And I don't know what university he goes to, but in mine many of our courses now have open book tests. There is no need to memorize things if you can look them up very quickly, we all agree on that. He is not pointing out anything spectacular here. The education IS moving on, improving and changing and Dan has absolutely NO business generalizing his unfortunate situation and addressing "Educators" of the entire world. I'm sorry to be frank but What the **** does he know? He is a kid on YouTube who has a popular channel because he is funny.

I can't even understand how he could come up with all that information is free crap. First and foremost you don't go to school to learn these facts. You go there because going through the process makes you think about these facts, absorb them, argue about them... Here is a VERY simple fact:

*University changes the way you think.*

It is NOT about a single class. It is NOT about the facts you get and then mostly forget. It is about the process you go through. The analytical thinking you develop. The ability to absorb new knowledge and form connections between new pieces of information. And many many other things, including seeing what's out there, meeting new people of mutual interest, and being presented all that information in structured coherent way.

So... yes. Nothing to see here... Just another instance of Dan talking about things he doesn't know anything about


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 7, 2010)

reThinking the Cube said:


> aronpm said:
> 
> 
> > :fp Please, stop posting. With every single post you make, you are lowering the collective intelligence of this forum. Seriously, you are so
> ...



I've read all the posts, and I did not see any valid or intelligent reasoning for your posts.


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## Tortin (Mar 8, 2010)

He uploaded a new video yesterday, because many other people had a similar complaint that he was a little too harsh.





The video he has about Glen Beck (that he sort of refers to in the video) is here


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## Cride5 (Mar 8, 2010)

badmephisto said:


> Just another instance of Dan talking about things he doesn't know anything about



I think that sums it up pretty well


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## Khartaras (Mar 8, 2010)

reThinking the Cube said:


> aronpm said:
> 
> 
> > (_insert personal flame_)
> ...



TAKE IT TO PMs.


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