# My General Cubing Progress



## BlastKracken7 (Sep 26, 2019)

Thread has been changed to reflect my algorithm learning process. I hope you like this now


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## xyzzy (Sep 26, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> I know enough VHLS to always get to yellow cross solved


Have you considered being at least partially colour neutral (e.g. white/yellow)?


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## BlastKracken7 (Sep 26, 2019)

yeah I have I am there for bi color (white/yellow) but I still do white most of the time


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## DGCubes (Sep 26, 2019)

ZBLL is a *big *commitment! I'm not saying you can't do it, but I've seen people make the claim time and time again that they're going to learn full ZBLL only to give up after a week. You should definitely go for it if this is something you really want to do, but make sure you understand how much of a commitment it is before you jump in. It's not just learning a bunch of algs (which is already a very big deal); you also have to consistently practice implementing them in solves if you want to retain them. (Also, do you know COLL yet? I'd honestly recommend learning that first; it's much easier to retain and is a good first step to learning a huge algset like ZBLL.)

Hmm I realize that this message has some discouraging undertones, but please prove me wrong! I'd love to see your progress of learning full ZBLL if you decide to go through with it.


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## BlastKracken7 (Sep 26, 2019)

Thanks DG! Ive always been a good fan! I honestly don't know COLL but I wont let that stop me. I can just do an Oll then Pll. But thanks for your feedback and I *WILL* learn full zbll no matter what! I already got a trainer and everything downloaded. I also already learned one today because 2 gen I feel is easy to learn. so far it has been. But I know it will get harder when Fs and Ds start appearing


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## Apolo (Sep 26, 2019)

Little tip:
Give yourself a rule: You have to learn at least a new ZBLL every 3 days. You can't go against this rule, it works very well to not give up


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## BlastKracken7 (Sep 26, 2019)

Apolo said:


> Little tip:
> Give yourself a rule: You have to learn at least a new ZBLL every 3 days. You can't go against this rule, it works very well to not give up


Yeah im thinking a ZBLL a day


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## PetrusQuber (Sep 26, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> As you can tell im trying to learn full ZBLL. I am trying to switch to ZB so I feel starting with learning ZBLL is a good start considering I know enough VHLS to always get to yellow cross solved. I will post every Monday about my progress. Also that's to PetrusCuber for giving me this idea with him trying to get sub-8 With petrus.
> Current ZBLLS learned:
> ZBLL-T: No corner swap: 5
> ZBLL-U: No corner swap: 1


Good luck with this! It’s definitely posdible!


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## BlastKracken7 (Sep 26, 2019)

thanks


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## Cuberstache (Sep 26, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> As you can tell im trying to learn full ZBLL. I am trying to switch to ZB so I feel starting with learning ZBLL is a good start considering I know enough VHLS to always get to yellow cross solved. I will post every Monday about my progress. Also that's to PetrusCuber for giving me this idea with him trying to get sub-8 With petrus.
> Current ZBLLS learned:
> ZBLL-T: No corner swap: 5
> ZBLL-U: No corner swap: 1


I haven't tried learning ZBLL myself, so take this with a grain of salt but I would highly recommend learning full COLL first. Each COLL alg is a ZBLL, so you're really just picking certain algs to learn first. Also, recognizing COLL cases is very important for ZBLL recognition and not super intuitive either.


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## Apolo (Sep 26, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> Yeah im thinking a ZBLL a day


Yeah but there might be some days where you can't, if this happens think about the 3 days rules 

Good luck


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## BlastKracken7 (Sep 26, 2019)

CuberStache said:


> Each COLL alg is a ZBLL.


I get that but I honestly don't care. I might learn COLL during my progress of this and if I do I will post that here


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## Cuberstache (Sep 26, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> I get that but I honestly don't care. I might learn COLL during my progress of this and if I do I will post that here


Ok, suit yourself. It was just a suggestion.


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## BlastKracken7 (Sep 26, 2019)

Apolo said:


> Yeah but there might be some days where you can't, if this happens think about the 3 days rules
> 
> Good luck


Ill keep it in mind


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## 2180161 (Sep 27, 2019)

Hey! So I'm pretty late to the party on this thread, but I was learning ZBLL about a year ago, and had a little over half done when I quit cubing because I didn't have the motivation, time, blah blah blah. anyway, if you're planning on learning ZBLL, definitely make sure you know COLL, as COLL is very important to learning ZBLL since its one of the main (and most common) ways of recognizing ZBLL's.

Some tips that will hopefully help you out:

1. Learn the alg before the recognition. I know this sounds weird and stupid but hear me out. By learning the alg before the recognition, you're allowing yourself to do the alg properly with the case set up, such that recognition is not only easier to learn, but also quicker.

2. Make sure you aren't just trying to drill the algs into muscle memory. This rarely works effectively, especially for larger algsets such as ZBLL, where some algs are bound to be similar. Instead, learn them by "tracking" where the pieces are and where they are going as you do the alg. I made a video about it in I think March, and I'll link that to you here.

3. For most people, ZBLL is daunting as it is one of the largest algsets that people will learn. Be careful not to try learning too many at once for risk of burnout (happened with me, I learned a whole set [T] in like 45 minutes, didn't learn any more for almost 4 months because I just didn't feel like it) Pacing is very important with this, especially if it seems like ZB is your end goal, as ZBLS is another 306 algs.

4. Have fun with it! Don't make it something you have to do because you said you'd do it, do it because its something you want to do. A word of advice about this specific bullet point, is that don't expect ZBLL to make you fast right off the bat. Until your recognition of cases and algs get faster you'll most likely have a little bit slower last layer, especially if you only know, say 25 out of 72 for a set, as you have to check whether you know the alg or not from the recognition.

edit: 5. I also strongly recommend you do NOT learn ZZLL or any other subset of ZBLL that is just ZBLL algs but controlled to reduce alg count. Make sure you go on a set by set basis, and by that I mean something like T 2GLL, then T diag-swap, etc.

Good Luck!


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## Owen Morrison (Sep 27, 2019)

also you really should learn coll first, you have to learn them anyway but if you learn them first then you can still do all the coll cases while your learning zbll, you don't have to, but it will make it easier


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## BlastKracken7 (Sep 27, 2019)

2180161 said:


> Hey! So I'm pretty late to the party on this thread, but I was learning ZBLL about a year ago, and had a little over half done when I quit cubing because I didn't have the motivation, time, blah blah blah. anyway, if you're planning on learning ZBLL, definitely make sure you know COLL, as COLL is very important to learning ZBLL since its one of the main (and most common) ways of recognizing ZBLL's.
> 
> Some tips that will hopefully help you out:
> 
> ...





Owen Morrison said:


> also you really should learn coll first, you have to learn them anyway but if you learn them first then you can still do all the coll cases while your learning zbll, you don't have to, but it will make it easier


I get COLL is important but I really don't care. Sorry if I sound rude


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## 2180161 (Sep 27, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> I get COLL is important but I really don't care. Sorry if I sound rude



COLL isn't just important, it is damn near mandatory for ZBLL. COLL is quite literally how you recognize your ZBLL's and tell the difference between some of them, and whether you like it or not, the 42 COLL algs are all ZBLL's themselves, so you're going to learn them anyway whether you want to or not.


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## BlastKracken7 (Sep 30, 2019)

week 1 update (started Thursday so 4 days every other update will be an actual week) 
ZBLL-T: No swap: 10
ZBLL-U: No swap: 1
Total: 11


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 7, 2019)

Week 2 update and news:
ZBLL-T: No swap: 12 Diag swap: 4
ZBLL-U: No swap: 1
Ima take a break from ZBLLs for now because I am trying to make a skewb method. Unsure if it already exists. about to make a thread on it


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 21, 2019)

update: starting up again


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Oct 21, 2019)

I’m so confused you are ignoring everyone who is saying Coll is necessary for ZBLL and I’m going to give you some more advice here: learn Coll 
Reason: zbll recognition is based on Coll and they are all zblls anyway also literally everyone who learns zbll learnt Coll first


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## Daxton Brumfield (Oct 21, 2019)

jay mcneil just posted an awesome email about how to learn algs better. It will help you but you also have to put in a lot of effort.


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## Owen Morrison (Oct 21, 2019)

Learning coll is pretty much essential for zbll, every single zbll recognition is based on coll, you see what coll it is and then what the edges look like. Also, every coll is a zbll that you will HAVE to learn anyway. So you can learn zbll in any order you want, but it will only make you slower unless you can recognize them.


Edit: I read this and realized it sounded pretty mean, I am not trying to discourage you from learning zbll, but I want to make sure that you know that zbll won't help you if you can't recognize the cases.


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 22, 2019)

Update: everyone is saying learn COLL so here I go taking another break from ZBLL to do COLL


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## sqAree (Oct 22, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> Update: everyone is saying learn COLL so here I go taking another break from ZBLL to do COLL


Why are you calling it a break dude.


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## Hazel (Oct 22, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> Update: everyone is saying learn COLL so here I go taking another break from ZBLL to do COLL





sqAree said:


> Why are you calling it a break dude.


Yep - COLL is literally just a subset of ZBLL.


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## OreKehStrah (Oct 22, 2019)

Does anyone have proof that learning COLL is necessary? I’ve learned a bit of ZBLL already, but I wonder if someone was trained from the start with ZZ and ZBLL if they could be taught to recognize ZB as 5 color PLL. I think if people could retrain themselves to do that kind of recognition, it would benefit their ZBLL


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 22, 2019)

sqAree said:


> Why are you calling it a break dude.


because im frustrated and even though it is technically a subset of ZBLL it is also a subset of OLLCP which is what I consider it
but at least people will be happy now...


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## OreKehStrah (Oct 22, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> because im frustrated and even though it is technically a subset of ZBLL it is also a subset of OLLCP which is what I consider it
> but at least people will be happy now...


You’re missing the point though. COLL is the standard basis for ZBLL recognition currently. And when you learn COLL, you get 42 free ZBLLs because all you have to do is associate the EP for your given COLL alg. I’m sure there are alternative/better ways to do ZB recognition and if you wanna be the person who tries their own way go ahead, but everyone is trying to tell you the “proven” way to learn ZBLL because, well, it’s the proven way! ZBLL is not something most people can just wake up and decide to learn. It takes a lot of dedication to learn and implement such that it becomes useful


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## Ronxu (Oct 22, 2019)

yikes


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 22, 2019)

OreKehStrah said:


> You’re missing the point though. COLL is the standard basis for ZBLL recognition currently. And when you learn COLL, you get 42 free ZBLLs because all you have to do is associate the EP for your given COLL alg. I’m sure there are alternative/better ways to do ZB recognition and if you wanna be the person who tries their own way go ahead, but everyone is trying to tell you the “proven” way to learn ZBLL because, well, it’s the proven way! ZBLL is not something most people can just wake up and decide to learn. It takes a lot of dedication to learn and implement such that it becomes useful


im not missing the point. I have been told here that colls are zblls. I get it ive been told over and over. im just tired of hearing it so im just going and doing it so I don't keep getting bugged for it.


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## OreKehStrah (Oct 22, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> im not missing the point. I have been told here that colls are zblls. I get it ive been told over and over. im just tired of hearing it so im just going and doing it so I don't keep getting bugged for it.


I just said that because it sounds like you were gonna just learn ZBLL and skip over COLL. At the end of the day ZBLL is just knowing multiple COLL so you skip EP. either way you’ll end up learning COLL. So it’s generally just better to learn COLL first to get used to corner recognition first and save a little bit of work from every ZBLL set


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 22, 2019)

im starting to feel I should've never made this thread and kept my learning a secret...


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## PetrusQuber (Oct 22, 2019)

Do what you want. 
It doesn’t matter how he learns it people.


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## OreKehStrah (Oct 22, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> im starting to feel I should've never made this thread and kept my learning a secret...


I think a lot of this is because in the past a lot of people have made big announcements about wanting to learn ZBLL and try to seem flashy and get attention, rather than doing to slightly improve their last layer game, so over time people became more and more critical of people who just announce they’re gonna learn ZBLL. If you’re genuinely in it to win it and really learn and get use out of ZBLL that’s awesome and good luck to you, you just need to keep in mind a lot of people make posts like this kinda as a publicity stunt kind of deal so people are super critical about it. Sorry if I rubbed off in the wrong way btw. I just want to make sure people know just how much it takes to get good at ZBLL because it’s easy and fun to imagine using it vs putting in the hours and hours of work to master it!


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## RedstoneTim (Oct 22, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> im starting to feel I should've never made this thread and kept my learning a secret...


When creating a thread, you should always be aware of the fact that there will be people replying. Most people here only want to help, even though it sometimes doesn't seem like it. You'll have to go your own way, though good help from the outside will almost certainly get you to your goal faster.


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## Tao Yu (Oct 22, 2019)

From what I can tell, it seems a lot of the frustration from other people in this thread is due to the fact that people are giving reasons to learn COLL first, but you're responding to them by saying you just don't care rather than explaining your logic. It's possible you had a good reason, but we don't know it.

Anyway, I'm just going to ignore all that and say that in my opinion, you don't need to learn COLL before ZBLL. I think people in this thread have given okay reasons to learn COLL first, but haven't proved that there is no good method to learn full ZBLL without learning COLL first.

I don't see anything wrong with learning ZBLL one COLL set at a time, and just learning the recognition for that COLL case as you're learning that set. The only thing that really matters is you learn to recognize the corner case and are able to tell it apart from others, and I can think of ways you can train sets in order to achieve this. For example, you could learn full T, one COLL set at a time, and when you're done T, just train them all together to make sure you're able to tell the corner cases apart.


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## Nilsibert (Oct 22, 2019)

People just want to help. There isn‘t any downside to learning COLL first, like none what so ever. Only benefits.
There‘s not a single reason not to go that route, so naturally people will assume you don‘t understand when you say you don‘t want to do it. Nobody is holding you at gunpoint though, so you do you


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 22, 2019)

Tao Yu said:


> I don't see anything wrong with learning ZBLL one COLL set at a time, and just learning the recognition for that COLL case as you're learning that set. The only thing that really matters is you learn to recognize the corner case and are able to tell it apart from others, and I can think of ways you can train sets in order to achieve this. For example, you could learn full T, one COLL set at a time, and when you're done T, just train them all together to make sure you're able to tell the corner cases apart.


That's what I have been doing. bases on my last update about my progress I put a no swap and diag swap for T. I find it easy that way


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## Tao Yu (Oct 22, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> That's what I have been doing. bases on my last update about my progress I put a no swap and diag swap for T. I find it easy that way



Yeah, my theory is if you said this rather than "I just don't care" people might have been more understanding. I might be wrong. 



Nilsibert said:


> People just want to help. There isn‘t any downside to learning COLL first, like none what so ever. Only benefits.
> There‘s not a single reason not to go that route, so naturally people will assume you don‘t understand when you say you don‘t want to do it. Nobody is holding you at gunpoint though, so you do you



I don't think there is much of a benefit over the method I described. At least, I think personal preference is a perfectly acceptable reason not to want to learn COLL first.


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## Nilsibert (Oct 22, 2019)

Tao Yu said:


> I don't think there is much of a benefit over the method I described. At least, I think personal preference is a perfectly acceptable reason not to want to learn COLL first.



I probably exaggerated a bit in my post. In the end, ZBLL needs a lot of drilling anyway so the benefit of learning COLL is probably not as big as it seems. I do still think there's not really a downside though, but personal preference is a good reason I have to admit. Whatever keeps motivation up.


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 28, 2019)

Starting back up
Recap:
ZBLL-T: No swap: 12/12 Diag swap: 4/12
ZBLL-U: No Swap: 1/12


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## OreKehStrah (Oct 28, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> Starting back up
> Recap:
> ZBLL-T: No swap: 12/12 Diag swap: 4/12
> ZBLL-U: No Swap: 1/12


This is just my reccomendation but I would learn all of T before U so you can drill all of T at once and never encounter a t case you don’t know


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 28, 2019)

OreKehStrah said:


> This is just my reccomendation but I would learn all of T before U so you can drill all of T at once and never encounter a t case you don’t know


That is what I am doing. I just know that 1 U case because it is the pure one.

so I found a good way to drill ZBLLs. I take 3 3x3s and get them all to look like the zbll. afterwards I solve 2 of them repeatedly until I think i know it. then I solve the other one without looking at the alg. This helped me learn 5 last night. Can yall tell me if this is a good method for drilling?


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## Hazel (Oct 29, 2019)

Have you checked out https://bestsiteever.ru/zbll/ ?
I learned the T ZBLL set a while back and this is how I learned it.
(I forgot them all since then... maybe one day I'll relearn them)


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## BlastKracken7 (Oct 29, 2019)

Aerma said:


> Have you checked out https://bestsiteever.ru/zbll/ ?
> I learned the T ZBLL set a while back and this is how I learned it.
> (I forgot them all since then... maybe one day I'll relearn them)


that is what I have been using. I use it to make sure I can still do everything I learned. But thanks anyway!


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## BlastKracken7 (Nov 4, 2019)

weekly update:

*T: 24/72: *No Swap: 12/12 Diag Swap: 12/12​​*U: 1/72*: No swap: 1/12
1/3 t done


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## BlastKracken7 (Nov 11, 2019)

weekly update:

*T: 27/72: *
No Swap: 12/12 
Diag Swap: 12/12​Back Swap: 3/12​*U: 1/72​*: No swap: 1/12​
slow week. aslthough I was focused on getting a sub-20 ao5. I got a 20.604...…..


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## PetrusQuber (Nov 11, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> weekly update:
> 
> *T: 27/72: *
> No Swap: 12/12
> ...


Lol. Nice. My PB ao5 is only 22.81 so far.


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## BlastKracken7 (Nov 11, 2019)

actually ima take a break from learning ZBLL until I can get a ao5 of 19.XXX


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## PugCuber (Nov 11, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> actually ima take a break from learning ZBLL until I can get a ao5 of 19.XXX


Honestly, you don’t really need ZBLL until like Sub-15 or Sub-12. Don’t get me wrong. You *CAN *learn ZBLL at Sub-20, but it’s really not needed that much at that level. But still, good luck!


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## BlastKracken7 (Nov 12, 2019)

Welp… got an 18.914..


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## PetrusQuber (Nov 12, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> Welp… got an 18.914..


Ao5???
Probably single, and I get the feeling I’m missing a joke...

Edit: I see it’s a ao5. Congrats


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## fortissim2 (Nov 12, 2019)

Some COLL cases are not very important to learn, either because they're very long or they're very inefficient. Someone from the r/Cubers Discord channel said that only 19/45 COLL cases are worth learning, making it less than half of the whole set. 
If you were to learn ZBLL, then more than half of the cases may be pretty inefficient/slow, so just be aware of that. On the other hand, good luck!


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## BlastKracken7 (Nov 12, 2019)

PetrusQuber said:


> Ao5???
> Probably single, and I get the feeling I’m missing a joke...
> 
> Edit: I see it’s a ao5. Congrats


Thanks Bro


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## xyzzy (Nov 13, 2019)

fortissim2 said:


> Some COLL cases are not very important to learn, either because they're very long or they're very inefficient. Someone from the r/Cubers Discord channel said that only 19/45 COLL cases are worth learning, making it less than half of the whole set.
> If you were to learn ZBLL, then more than half of the cases may be pretty inefficient/slow, so just be aware of that.


Of course there are some cases that are better and some that are worse; of course they're not equally fast. If one is going to learn the whole set of ZBLL algs anyway, what does it matter?

(I mean, it does sort of matter if you roughly know which subsets are the fastest for you, so you can try to force e.g. T sets to show up more frequently when solving your last slot, but this isn't information that should affect how one would go about learning ZBLL itself.)

ZBLL is a sizeable 1LLL subset; it replaces two-look last layer with one-look last layer when applicable. It's not like COLL (or its superset, OLLCP) where you still need to do EPLL afterwards (and hence is still two-look). Assuming execution/recognition are perfect, it's literally impossible for a ZBLL alg to be strictly slower than any "two-look-two-alg" way of solving the case—were that the case, the ZBLL alg would just be a combo of whatever those two-look algs are, and they'd be of equal speed.


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## RyanP12 (Nov 13, 2019)

It’s very impressive what you are accomplishing. My advice is to don’t always listen to what other people say. Cubing is for fun, and to experiment and try new things. Just because other people learned ZBLL at sub 8 doesn’t mean you have to. Good Luck!


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## BlastKracken7 (Nov 15, 2019)

OK I JUST GOT A 12.282 SINGLE AND I AM FREAKING OUT!!! I WILL POSTA RECONSTRUCTION LATER


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## Etotheipi (Nov 15, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> OK I JUST GOT A 12.282 SINGLE AND I AM FREAKING OUT!!! I WILL POSTA RECONSTRUCTION LATER


Gj man!!!! Nice!!!


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## BlastKracken7 (Nov 15, 2019)

Reconstruction
Scramble: R' F' L2 F2 L2 D2 L2 U F2 U L2 D' R2 U L' B2 R' F U' L' B
Solution:
y //inspection
R U' R2 y' R' F' l2 //cross (ik its on top) 
R U2 R' y' L' U L //first pair
R U' R' //second pair
U2 y R' U2 R U2 R' U R //third pair
y U' L' U' L // fourth pair
U F R U R' U' F' //yellow cross
L' U R U' L U R' U //preserving block causing accidental zbll


when 2 look OLL causes a pll skip XD


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## FakeMMAP (Nov 16, 2019)

Hey! I've recently become a new entry to the full ZBLL club.

so, first of all, as DG said already full ZBLL is a huge commitment, make sure you really want to put in the effort for such a big task.

second: *USE THE ZBLL TRAINER TO YOUR ADVANTAGE*
it's helpful as heck, and helped me consolidate the first algs I knew.

remember this one thing: the more algs you know, the easier it is to learn others, because you get more used to it, and you're able to relate new algs to others more often, and for a big alg set this is VERY useful.


so, with that said, here is how I learnt ZBLL:

I created a bunch of txt files, one for every OCLL (you can use spreadsheets too), each of which the cases by COLL.
I indicated the cases by how they're indicated them on the ZBLL trainer, so I could just check the file and instantly know what
cases I should input into the trainer. so for the U case FBBF CxO, i would have it on the U file, in the FBBF (checkerboard) section, and i would write CxO. then I would write the algorithm, that I broke down into triggers using a teamBLD notation I saw somewhere (I think bob burton site). triggers include push=R U' R', pull=R U R', super=R U2 R', front-push=F' U F, back and left versions, and also wide move versions. I would write the algs with that notation, then train them.

The order I recommend is this: learn 2GLLs (order: T/U simultaneously, L, Pi, H, S/As, which can be delayed a bit), while making sure you know all COLL+skip cases for T, U, L and some mirrors and inverses as well. H, Pi and S/As+skip cases are harder to recognize, except for diag H.

next I recommend learning ZBLL for the worst U-set COLL (R' Y-perm R), and then finish the other COLL sets, while drilling them as soon as you finish a subset. meanwhile you can learn some other random T and L cases. next I would learn T and L, by starting with diag cases, because they're the worst. meanwhile learn easy cases. you can also learn some H/Pi/S/As if you want (I remember learning all sune+F-perm cases because I was into OH, and the COLL+skip cases+mirrors and inverses for all other COLL cases at this point)

finish with H, Pi, S and AS, again starting from Pi. (actually I learnt diag Pi after starting L, because diag Pi is so bad)


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## BlastKracken7 (Nov 18, 2019)

weekly update: more slow week :/

*T: 30/72: *
No Swap: 12/12 
Diag Swap: 12/12​Back Swap: 6/12​*U: 1/72:​*No swap: 1/12



FakeMMAP said:


> second: *USE THE ZBLL TRAINER TO YOUR ADVANTAGE*


as said in a previous message I use the trainer. Thanks for the advice though


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## PetrusQuber (Nov 18, 2019)

BlastKracken7 said:


> weekly update: more slow week :/
> 
> *T: 30/72: *
> No Swap: 12/12
> ...


I can’t even be bothered to learn 3 U COLLs this week, although one day I felt like it, I managed to learn all the G Perms and the V Perm...


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## BlastKracken7 (Dec 3, 2019)

So i forgot to do a thingy last week and i lost all my documents for learning zblls... i will take a break this week and continue on monday.. Keep cubing yall!


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## fortissim2 (Dec 3, 2019)

Would you recommend learning OLLCP first or ZBLL first?


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## Etotheipi (Dec 3, 2019)

fortissim2 said:


> Would you recommend learning OLLCP first or ZBLL first?


I wouldn't know very well, but I'd say ZBLL because EO is pretty easy to force, and OLLCP only gives a small advantage of an EPLL, which would be mostly negated by the recog difficulty and alg recall. (Though a person who knows ZBLL or OLLCP might think differently)


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## Owen Morrison (Mar 3, 2020)

Did you give up?


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## OreKehStrah (Mar 3, 2020)

fortissim2 said:


> Would you recommend learning OLLCP first or ZBLL first?


Sorry to bump this 3 month old comment but the only way OLLCP is worth it IMO is to learn a second alg yo skip a diag PLL


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## PetrusQuber (Mar 3, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> Did you give up?


Last seen Jan 31


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## Filipe Teixeira (Mar 3, 2020)

FakeMMAP said:


> Hey! I've recently become a new entry to the full ZBLL club.
> 
> so, first of all, as DG said already full ZBLL is a huge commitment, make sure you really want to put in the effort for such a big task.
> 
> ...


congrats on learning the whole thing


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## BlastKracken7 (Mar 23, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> Did you give up?





PetrusQuber said:


> Last seen Jan 31


I did kinda give up. Ever since I lost the files I had I lost interest a bit. I might come back eventually but idk when


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## BlastKracken7 (May 4, 2020)

So i have renamed the thread. It is no longer about zbll it is about my algorithm learning process. I hope you guys like the change

anyway currently learning oll

current progress:
OLL (35/57) cross: 100% (7/7) L: 59.259% (16/27) Line: 46.6% (7/15) Dot: 62.5% (5/8)


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## BlastKracken7 (May 14, 2020)

So sorry for the late update. I would've updated on Monday but I could not as I was using my school laptop as it is surprisingly better than my tablet. Anyway here was my stats of what I had done in Friday and when I can I'll update again
OLL (43/57) cross: 100% (7/7) L: 77.7% (21/27) Line: 46.6% (7/15) Dot: 100% (8/8)


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## PetrusQuber (May 21, 2020)

BlastKracken7 said:


> So sorry for the late update. I would've updated on Monday but I could not as I was using my school laptop as it is surprisingly better than my tablet. Anyway here was my stats of what I had done in Friday and when I can I'll update again
> OLL (43/57) cross: 100% (7/7) L: 77.7% (21/27) Line: 46.6% (7/15) Dot: 100% (8/8)


Are you done? 
Only had a few to go last week.


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## BlastKracken7 (May 21, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> Are you done?
> Only had a few to go last week.


Sadly no. I'm afraid to go into algdb on my tablet as when it is in chrome its risky as chrome crashes a lot. Just writing this post I thought it would crash a lot because of lag. I would've been done if I knew the algorithms in my old book that i wrote algorithms in. I just looked in it before writing this post and I found an algorithm that wasn't mostly accepted therefore I can't rn. Yeah sorry about that.. Bad devices are bad to work with...


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 13, 2020)

i know this message is a good month later but as of rn i am not learning anything and basically i am putting this on a stand still atm. ill notify when i can start learning again


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 21, 2020)

So now i have some news. My dad is going to sign me up for my first comp. I have 2 months yet to learn algorithms. Here is what i have planned. I am going to sign up for 2x2-5x5, OH, pyra, and squan. Starting tomorrow when i get to my cousins) or when i get home monday as i dont have my 3x3 with me, im going to start learning algorithms again.

The algorithms ima learn, in order, are: OLL, 2x2 CLL, COLL, probably some pyra algs, and then some squan algs. if you think i should learn these in a different order or other algorithms, please tell me and where i should learn them in the order. WV will probably be added somewhere at the end. Thanks!

p.s. ima have fun getting a trainer on mobile...


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 21, 2020)

BlastKracken7 said:


> So now i have some news. My dad is going to sign me up for my first comp. I have 2 months yet to learn algorithms. Here is what i have planned. I am going to sign up for 2x2-5x5, OH, pyra, and squan. Starting tomorrow when i get to my cousins) or when i get home monday as i dont have my 3x3 with me, im going to start learning algorithms again.
> 
> The algorithms ima learn, in order, are: OLL, 2x2 CLL, COLL, probably some pyra algs, and then some squan algs. if you think i should learn these in a different order or other algorithms, please tell me and where i should learn them in the order. WV will probably be added somewhere at the end. Thanks!
> 
> p.s. ima have fun getting a trainer on mobile...


My boi Calvin Neilson AKA Rouxbic Cuber is actually working on "Cube Gym", a trainer app for mobile. It's in its early stages right now and is mostly meant for square-1 but it could branch off into other puzzles too.


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 21, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> My boi Calvin Neilson AKA Rouxbic Cuber is actually working on "Cube Gym", a trainer app for mobile. It's in its early stages right now and is mostly meant for square-1 but it could branch off into other puzzles too.


Thanks! your imput really helps!


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## PetrusQuber (Jun 21, 2020)

BlastKracken7 said:


> So now i have some news. My dad is going to sign me up for my first comp. I have 2 months yet to learn algorithms. Here is what i have planned. I am going to sign up for 2x2-5x5, OH, pyra, and squan. Starting tomorrow when i get to my cousins) or when i get home monday as i dont have my 3x3 with me, im going to start learning algorithms again.
> 
> The algorithms ima learn, in order, are: OLL, 2x2 CLL, COLL, probably some pyra algs, and then some squan algs. if you think i should learn these in a different order or other algorithms, please tell me and where i should learn them in the order. WV will probably be added somewhere at the end. Thanks!
> 
> p.s. ima have fun getting a trainer on mobile...


Cool! Comps are really fun


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Jun 21, 2020)

BlastKracken7 said:


> So now i have some news. My dad is going to sign me up for my first comp. I have 2 months yet to learn algorithms. Here is what i have planned. I am going to sign up for 2x2-5x5, OH, pyra, and squan. Starting tomorrow when i get to my cousins) or when i get home monday as i dont have my 3x3 with me, im going to start learning algorithms again.
> 
> The algorithms ima learn, in order, are: OLL, 2x2 CLL, COLL, probably some pyra algs, and then some squan algs. if you think i should learn these in a different order or other algorithms, please tell me and where i should learn them in the order. WV will probably be added somewhere at the end. Thanks!
> 
> p.s. ima have fun getting a trainer on mobile...


What do you average on the events your signing up for.


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 21, 2020)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> What do you average on the events your signing up for.


well i have a lot of time to bring down my times.
2x2 its like 4-6, 3x3 is 18-24, 5x5 is like 2:40-2:50, and OH, Squan, and Pyra i havent done in a while.
i was planning on practicing all of them on the way

Name of thread changed from "My algorithm learning process" to "My General Cubing Progress" because i will be posting things other than algorithm learning


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Jun 21, 2020)

Don’t learn Coll and don’t learn Pyra algs as pyra doesn’t have algs.


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## PetrusQuber (Jun 22, 2020)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> Don’t learn Coll and don’t learn Pyra algs as pyra doesn’t have algs.


He mentions trying to learn ZBLL later which I think needs COLL.


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Jun 22, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> He mentions trying to learn ZBLL later which I think needs COLL.


Still he should learn Coll until sub 15 if he is using CFOP


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## PetrusQuber (Jun 22, 2020)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> Still he should learn Coll until sub 15 if he is using CFOP


Hmm maybe, but it's his choice, I learnt full PLL at 35 avg


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## ProStar (Jun 22, 2020)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> Don’t learn Coll and don’t learn Pyra algs as pyra doesn’t have algs.



Top-First methods have algs, but L4E is intuitive


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Jun 22, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> Hmm maybe, but it's his choice, I learnt full PLL at 35 avg


PLL is different because it directly improves your times and is necessary to be fast whereas many people who know COLL don’t even use it for 2h as it is only marginally better than OCLL PLL


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 22, 2020)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> many people who know COLL don’t even use it for 2h as it is only marginally better than OCLL PLL


In some cases it might be even worse, to be honest. ZBLL or VLS is a much more useful alg set to learn since for the most part it doesn't bar you from getting easy cases. COLL is only really useful for learning how to predict corners IMO since outside of OH it's not worth it, especially since 1/2 of the possible EPLL's are worse than a lot of the adj corner PLLs


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## ProStar (Jun 22, 2020)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> PLL is different because it directly improves your times and is necessary to be fast whereas many people who know COLL don’t even use it for 2h as it is only marginally better than OCLL PLL



It's worse in many cases, it's only worth it for OH or as a stepping stone to ZBLL



Sub1Hour said:


> In some cases it might be even worse, to be honest. ZBLL or VLS is a much more useful alg set to learn since for the most part it doesn't bar you from getting easy cases. COLL is only really useful for learning how to predict corners IMO since outside of OH it's not worth it, especially since 1/2 of the possible EPLL's are worse than a lot of the adj corner PLLs



ZBLL is definitely more worth it than VLS


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 22, 2020)

ProStar said:


> ZBLL is definitely more worth it than VLS


I agree, but I think that learning either one is much, much more beneficial than learning COLL or OLLCP


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## BenChristman1 (Jun 22, 2020)

I really don't see the point of learning COLL, if you can just do ZBLL. It is way more algs, but probably a lot better. Then again, the recognition for ZBLL is probably really slow.


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 22, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> I really don't see the point of learning COLL, if you can just do ZBLL. It is way more algs, but probably a lot better. Then again, the recognition for ZBLL is probably really slow.


It's not really all that much worse than COLL or CLL, or any 1LCLL alg set since all you need to look at aside from corners is the edges, which are much easier to recognize since they are oriented.


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 23, 2020)

So I'm seeing a lot of feedback about how I shouldn't learn coll. I'm only learning it as it will help later for recognition of zbll. Oh and because alg knowledge

anyway I'm starting up again and here are my current stats:
Currently Learning: OLL (43/57) cross: 100% (7/7) L: 77.7% (21/27) Line: 46.6% (7/15) Dot: 100% (8/8)

Tablet froze 1 time and Google crashed 1 time while typing this

Edit:
Just before I start for today, I've been updating my algorithm book with the algs I'm learning. As I said before I don't find my alg book reliable for oll atm so I'm updating it slowly.

After I went to update my progress yesterday, I found out I forgot to count 2 algs that I knew and that's why it says 3 and not 5 in my bio (as I'm posting this)

one last thing, as I said with my tablet being unreliable (freezing and Google crashing), I'm only going to check this thread 1.5 times a day. I'm saying 1.5 because the second one is after I update knoll to what I learn, which is 3 olls a day plus refreshing what I learned yesterday.

Anyway cya!

Ok so I need some help for optimal settings for someone my speed.

I was messing with the gan xs's settings and I'm wondering what I should use at my speed. I went to the slowest setting (I think) and I got a 12 5 solves in. I. wondering if I should use the slowest setting or not. Would help to know.


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## Owen Morrison (Jun 24, 2020)

BlastKracken7 said:


> Ok so I need some help for optimal settings for someone my speed.
> 
> I was messing with the gan xs's settings and I'm wondering what I should use at my speed. I went to the slowest setting (I think) and I got a 12 5 solves in. I. wondering if I should use the slowest setting or not. Would help to know.


You should use whatever setting feels the best to you, it's all personal preference.


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 24, 2020)

Ok then yeah I'm probably you to use the slowest settings.


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## joshsailscga (Jun 24, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> I really don't see the point of learning COLL, if you can just do ZBLL. It is way more algs, but probably a lot better. Then again, the recognition for ZBLL is probably really slow.



Every single thing you said is 100% correct. That said, let's consider why every single thing you said is useless for most people.

COLL is 40 algs. And of those 40 algs, basically everyone agrees the S/AS cases are a waste of time, which takes us down to 28 algs. I can learn that in an afternoon, two at most. Figure out which ones don't really help you (spoiler, a good many are actually really nice especially given the increased chance of PLL skip) and forget those, maybe you're left with 15-20 algs. As an intermediate cuber who's just getting into how to learn algs and wants to figure out the next steps to getting faster, this is a fairly easily achievable goal with a pretty favorable effort/reward ratio.

ZBLL is 493 algs. That is a many-months-long learning process for all but the few crazy people who grind through it in a few weeks. Let's not pretend there are very many of those people, and let's not pretend that those people are doing ANYTHING cubing related except drilling algs for that time period. Mid-fast cubers who want to become faster and who have learned how to learn algs learn ZBLL because it's the next step in their journey.

Or we could put it this way:
"I really don't see the point of buying $60 running shoes, if you can just buy $200 running shoes. They are way more money but probably a lot better. Then again, it probably takes a long time to save up that much money."

Yes, $200 shoes should be objectively better than $60 shoes, just like ZBLL should provide objectively more benefits than COLL. However, there's a cost to everything, whether money or memorization/practice or whatever, and many people decide the benefits gained aren't worth the cost to attain them, at least for the present time.

inb4 "ZBLL recog isn't actually slow if you do it right". That's totally fair. Most people only think it's slow, because if it takes months to learn the alg set it's going to take even more months to get the visual recognition down solidly.
inb4 "But you can just learn ZBLL in chunks at a time". What do you think COLL is?
inb4 "I only average 25 seconds and I'm learning full ZBLL before full OLL". Sincere congratulations if you do it. You are again the minority and it's noteworthy but not representative of the larger population.


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## Owen Morrison (Jun 24, 2020)

joshsailscga said:


> Every single thing you said is 100% correct. That said, let's consider why every single thing you said is useless for most people.
> 
> COLL is 40 algs. And of those 40 algs, basically everyone agrees the S/AS cases are a waste of time, which takes us down to 28 algs. I can learn that in an afternoon, two at most. Figure out which ones don't really help you (spoiler, a good many are actually really nice especially given the increased chance of PLL skip) and forget those, maybe you're left with 15-20 algs. As an intermediate cuber who's just getting into how to learn algs and wants to figure out the next steps to getting faster, this is a fairly easily achievable goal with a pretty favorable effort/reward ratio.
> 
> ...


WHAOJ I FOUND A MORR01 WCA ID.


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## WarriorCatCuber (Jun 24, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> WHAOJ I FOUND A MORR01 WCA ID.


Long lost cousin


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 25, 2020)

It's done! I got all 57 done! Now I just need to be able to recognize the 2-4 I have memorized but are forgetful!
Those are 55, 56, 40 and 39!! I'm done!!!!! Technically....


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 25, 2020)

BlastKracken7 said:


> It's done! I got all 57 done! Now I just need to be able to recognize the 2-4 I have memorized but are forgetful!
> Those are 55, 56, 40 and 39!! I'm done!!!!! Technically....


GG! I'm currently "trying" to learn full OLL and I was wondering if you used any techniques during your learning that helped you out.


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 27, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> GG! I'm currently "trying" to learn full OLL and I was wondering if you used any techniques during your learning that helped you out.


well i used a book to keep track of the ones i use. i would put a ? for when i just learned it and dont expect to know for when it shows up. and after every day go back and check to see if you can preform the alg. Afterwards i would then but ..? for when you can preform it but dont know if you can recognize it. thats basically all i did. it might help for you might not.


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## BlastKracken7 (Jul 10, 2020)

welp rip me... my comp was moved to next year.

Anyway im going to start cll on monday so expect that. I have the pictures to reference in the book so i am ready for it! i have some learned already because of them either being known by me already (S, aS, and H) or because, well, the face is solved already.


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## BlastKracken7 (Aug 2, 2020)

Ight so im sorry but im not going to learn cll atm. 

I guess i shouldve told this weeks ago which i am sorry for. I got REALLY into blind solving and within a day of trying i actually was able to do 3bld. So rn i am a blindfolded solver until i get bored of it. so again sorry and i hope you guys have a great day. also my first 2bld try was a success even though i had yet to even try before hand.


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## PetrusQuber (Aug 2, 2020)

BlastKracken7 said:


> Ight so im sorry but im not going to learn cll atm.
> 
> I guess i shouldve told this weeks ago which i am sorry for. I got REALLY into blind solving and within a day of trying i actually was able to do 3bld. So rn i am a blindfolded solver until i get bored of it. so again sorry and i hope you guys have a great day. also my first 2bld try was a success even though i had yet to even try before hand.


I mean it's your enjoyment that matter the most  Blind is really fun though, I just get kind of frustrated with not many successes, and the memo stresses me out.


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## nico_german_cuber (Aug 2, 2020)

Hi, U wanna Post Here Weekly, it seems to me Like it's nice,if i keep some interested people updated about my progression. So: im a German Cuber avging 12-13 rn and i Like 3x3-5x5 and Pyra and OH . Here is my Pb Sheet. And yea... I think i will Post Every Week on Friday or so. See ya


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## PetrusQuber (Aug 3, 2020)

nico_german_cuber said:


> Hi, U wanna Post Here Weekly, it seems to me Like it's nice,if i keep some interested people updated about my progression. So: im a German Cuber avging 12-13 rn and i Like 3x3-5x5 and Pyra and OH . Here is my Pb Sheet. And yea... I think i will Post Every Week on Friday or so. See ya


You can create your own thread for that.


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## nico_german_cuber (Aug 3, 2020)

Okay, i actually didnt want that, bc there are so many... And the Idea came from Micah Morrison but i will do that


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 27, 2022)

Hey guys. I know it's been almost 2 years, but after a long hiatus I'm getting back in cubing entirely. In about a week ill be able to make progress towards learning algs again. I have forgotten a good bit of OLL and so I need to relearn that first

Since I left I've stopped using the username on this account and I wish i was able to change it to what I use now, but I'm fine using this.

So yeah like I said, expect me to start doing updates again starting next week and such. I'm glad to be back.


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 28, 2022)

So I was going through the speed solving wiki and I found a method that I like more than CFOP called Mehta-OS and I am deciding to switch over to that. Sure it'll take a little bit but I think it would be worth it in the end. What do y'all think?


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## IsThatA4x4 (Jun 28, 2022)

BlastKracken7 said:


> So I was going through the speed solving wiki and I found a method that I like more than CFOP called Mehta-OS and I am deciding to switch over to that. Sure it'll take a little bit but I think it would be worth it in the end. What do y'all think?


You may want to see  this  thread. This was the reason a lot of mehta users switched away from mehta. While there are good things about mehta, it's also very important to look at the downsides


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## Timona (Jun 28, 2022)

BlastKracken7 said:


> So I was going through the speed solving wiki and I found a method that I like more than CFOP called Mehta-OS and I am deciding to switch over to that. Sure it'll take a little bit but I think it would be worth it in the end. What do y'all think?


Pros - its majorly an alg-based method so if you can drill the algs, you'll get good at them.
Cons - way too much algs, but if you're into that sort of thing, then good for you.






Mehta


3x3x3 Speedsolving Method - Mehta




devagio.github.io


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## BlastKracken7 (Jun 28, 2022)

IsThatA4x4 said:


> You may want to see  this  thread. This was the reason a lot of mehta users switched away from mehta. While there are good things about mehta, it's also very important to look at the downsides


The thread won't load for me


Timona said:


> Pros - its majorly an alg-based method so if you can drill the algs, you'll get good at them.
> Cons - way too much algs, but if you're into that sort of thing, then good for you.
> 
> 
> ...


I like memorizing things so it isn't such a big issue for me


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## gsingh (Jun 29, 2022)

BlastKracken7 said:


> Since I left I've stopped using the username on this account and I wish i was able to change it to what I use now, but I'm fine using this.


you can change it by going into your account settings


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## IsThatA4x4 (Jun 29, 2022)

BlastKracken7 said:


> The thread won't load for me


I think I forgot some stuff at the end of the link, try  this


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## BlastKracken7 (Sep 14, 2022)

OK its been a while since my last post. news.

I got a new pc since my last one died about a month ago, and soon after that post internet on my pc decided to stop working for a month.

After trying it for a bit, i decided that as of rn i am not going to go down the mehta path. Ill still help them try to make more substeps or whatever as i think it is a really cool method in the first place

i still have a good chunk of oll i need to relearn as i couldnt really go through with it

After i do relearn full OLL, i will go after learning either NS for skewb (as that will probably be my main event) or COLL. not quite sure yet as i want to get back to learning ZBLL soon

Hopefully with this new pc i can be a lot more active now.

I did get a new pb finally after *3 hole years* dropping my pb down from 11.95 -> 11.66 recon down below

Scramble: U2 D' F' L F2 B2 D' F2 U2 D' B U2 F L2 D2 F' U2 B L2 
y' //inspection 
F R r2 F' D2 //cross 
R' U R2 U R' //F2L 1 
U L' U L //F2L 2 
U2 y2 R U R' //F2L 3 
U2 y' R U2 R' U' R U R' //F2L 4 
U' R U R' U' M' U R U' r' //OLL 
U' M2 U2 M' U' M2 U' M2 U' M' //PLL

soon after this solve i realized that it couldve been a pll skip, but i did not notice the 1x3 block that was staring me in the face. If i noticed it, the solve wouldve been sub 10


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