# Did the Americans walk on the Moon?



## Kubismo (Sep 2, 2008)

*............*


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## nitrocan (Sep 2, 2008)

Oh my god... You don't have to post multiple threads.


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## DAE_JA_VOO (Sep 2, 2008)

Nope. The whole Neil Armstrong thing was total bull crap. There's absolutely no way that they were on the moon. I've done quite a bit of research on the matter and i'm absolutely and undeniably certain that it was bull crap.

It's stuff like this (and 9/11, of course) that make it impossible for me to take the US seriously (no offence to any americans here. It's not you that i don't understand, it's your government  )

EDIT: I haven't watched the "Spoiler material" you posted, but i will now.


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## nitrocan (Sep 2, 2008)

You can delete your own post (and the thread appearantly if you opened it). Just click Edit, then delete.


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## DAE_JA_VOO (Sep 2, 2008)

BTW, why are "I do not live in the US" and "I live in the US" even options? How is that relevant?


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 2, 2008)

Some alternate opinions, for what they're worth:
http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1758/was-the-apollo-moon-landing-a-hoax
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html


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## AvGalen (Sep 2, 2008)

Can I tag this topic with "conspiracy theory", "black helicopters" and "Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean nobody is trying to get me".

[This is the REAL truth. Honestly. Trust me on this ok]
1. It is very obvious that all the moonwalks (and games of moongolf) were actually true.
2. Aliens are now suing for damages
3. The US government has to find a way to deny they ever were on the moon
4. They created echelon (supposedly to seek for terrorists)
5. They secretly renamed echelon to google
6. They made sure everyone trusts the search results from google
7. They made this "moonlanding was fake" websites and give them a pagerank of 10^google-1
8. Everyone that has ever searched for anything hoax or space-related has seen those "moonlanding was fake" websites and thinks they are real
9. They went 1 step further and also added youtube to google
10. They made sure noone trusts the videos from youtube
11. They put the real moonlanding videos on youtube so everyone now thinks they are fake.
12. They hired all the best lawyers (MS and OJ are missing them now) and convinced the aliens they never went to the moon so they are not liable for the damages
13. Skipped because of the bad luck factor
14. They made a deal with the aliens to never visit the moon and got the technology to go to Mars in exchange.
[/This is the REAL truth. Honestly. Trust me on this ok]


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 2, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> Can I tag this topic with "conspiracy theory", "black helicopters" and "Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean nobody is trying to get me".
> 
> [This is the REAL truth. Honestly. Trust me on this ok]
> ...
> ...



I believe, I believe!!!!


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## badmephisto (Sep 2, 2008)

groooaaaan conspiracy theories


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## Kian (Sep 2, 2008)

this is sad. every major conspiracy theory that has been promulgated about 9/11 and the lunar landing has been proven to be bogus. for example, the classic moon hoax theories were tested in an episode of mythbusters, in which they were able to simulate the waving flag in a vacuum, the slant of shadows being different because the moon is not a completely flat surface. they proved these very easily. the real "hoax" is convincing smart people it never happened.

either way, it's pretty sad that people keep up with these myths when they don't do the research to prove otherwise. the famous 9/11 conspiracy myths fail as well. Loose change has been debunked with numerous responses. other such ideas have been brought up time and time again and have never been met the test of real science.

And to Joo, I do take offense on the taking the US seriously comment, even though you say I shouldn't. The audacity that you must have to make such a comment about our government from 5000 miles away is pretty absurd. I can only hope you don't believe in the "myth" that I don't live in a fantastic nation. I thank God I'm able to live here and your flippant statements are unfair and unfounded. I will not take cheap shots at the government of RSA, a nation in far worse a situation than my own, and I do expect the same from you.


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## tim (Sep 2, 2008)

Kian said:


> this is sad. every major conspiracy theory that has been promulgated about 9/11 and the lunar landing has been proven to be bogus. for example, the classic moon hoax theories were tested in an episode of mythbusters, in which they were able to simulate the waving flag in a vacuum, the slant of shadows being different because the moon is not a completely flat surface. they proved these very easily. the real "hoax" is convincing smart people it never happened.
> 
> either way, it's pretty sad that people keep up with these myths when they don't do the research to prove otherwise. the famous 9/11 conspiracy myths fail as well. Loose change has been debunked with numerous responses. other such ideas have been brought up time and time again and have never been met the test of real science.
> 
> And to Joo, I do take offense on the taking the US seriously comment, even though you say I shouldn't. The audacity that you must have to make such a comment about our government from 5000 miles away is pretty absurd. I can only hope you don't believe in the "myth" that I don't live in a fantastic nation. *I thank God I'm able to live here* and your flippant statements are unfair and unfounded. I will not take cheap shots at the government of RSA, a nation in far worse a situation than my own, and I do expect the same from you.



I almost took you seriously.


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## DcF1337 (Sep 2, 2008)

Wow.

Honestly, I don't know who's serious and who's sarcastic anymore.

Seriously.

Even I don't know if I'm sarcastic.

God damn it. I can't help but put a "tongue sticking out" smiley.



So am I serious, or am I joking?

Let's create conspiracy theories over why you think I'm serious/joking.


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## Bounb (Sep 2, 2008)

Question: Did the Americans walk on the Moon?

Answer: Yes. Yes of course they did.

Give me one piece of 'evidence' countering this and I will tell you why you are wrong.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 2, 2008)

DcF1337 said:


> Let's create conspiracy theories over why you think I'm serious/joking.



I think this post is a conspiracy. The US government is concerned that Arnaud has figured out their plan, and DcF1337 is trying to draw attention away from it. Don't let him!


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## brunson (Sep 2, 2008)

DAE_JA_VOO and Kubismo, could you post pictures of yourselves wearing your foil hats? It'd be cool. Really.


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## Neroflux (Sep 2, 2008)

why do you humans call it the moon anyway?


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## Ethan Rosen (Sep 2, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> [This is the REAL truth. Honestly. Trust me on this ok]
> 13. Skipped because of the bad luck factor
> [/This is the REAL truth. Honestly. Trust me on this ok]



Perhaps the skipping of step 13 is actually a government conspiracy to lead people away from the fact that step 12.5 was to stage the Vietnam War.


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## DavidWoner (Sep 2, 2008)

well there goes your "spoiler" video...(snopes article)

im glad the poll was multiple choice, i was afraid i wouldnt be able to select "yes of course" and "this poll sucks". i am a little upset that there wasnt a "this poll should not even exist because the question is that freaking stupid." option

also those astronauts were totally justified in both their anger and their violence. if you had a bunch of attention-craving morons coming up to you and telling you that what you worked for your entire life was a lie, then you would probably punch people too. come to think of it, i would probably punch that guy too.


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## fanwuq (Sep 2, 2008)

What if the moon doesn't even exist?
What if people are actually suing the aliens?


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 2, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> How did the astronauts survive the van Allen radiation belt?



An opinion on this:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may2000/959341359.As.r.html


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## Lucas Garron (Sep 2, 2008)

I would like to create another poll:

Has any human ever actually solved a Rubik's cube?

Yes, of course.
Yes, I think so.
Maybe yes, maybe no.
No, maybe.
No, I don't think so.
No way.
I have seen someone "solve" it in real life.
I have not seen someone solve it in real life.
What an interesting poll; please make some more in the future.
This poll sucks.

Okay, people, try to prove that any YouTube solve is not a fake.


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## Lofty (Sep 2, 2008)

tim said:


> Kian said:
> 
> 
> > this is sad. every major conspiracy theory that has been promulgated about 9/11 and the lunar landing has been proven to be bogus. for example, the classic moon hoax theories were tested in an episode of mythbusters, in which they were able to simulate the waving flag in a vacuum, the slant of shadows being different because the moon is not a completely flat surface. they proved these very easily. the real "hoax" is convincing smart people it never happened.
> ...



Why does the fact that he is a theist change anything?
More on topic: This is a pretty dumb poll...


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## tim (Sep 2, 2008)

Lofty said:


> tim said:
> 
> 
> > Kian said:
> ...



It doesn't. It's more the fact, that he believes that god has anything to do with nations. But maybe it's meant ironically, i don't know.


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## DavidWoner (Sep 2, 2008)

tim said:


> Lofty said:
> 
> 
> > tim said:
> ...



he could also just be using it as an expression too...


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## Lofty (Sep 2, 2008)

tim said:


> Lofty said:
> 
> 
> > tim said:
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the post seemed serious enough but I dont know either. And the idea that God has something to do with nations doesnt seem that farfetched to me. if there was a supreme all powerful being interested in the affairs of humans why would He not have something to do with nations?


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 2, 2008)

Based on Lucas's comment, I think there should be two more options to this poll:
11. I personally walked on the moon.
12. I helped create the moon hoax.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Sep 2, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> Based on Lucas's comment, I think there should be two more options to this poll:
> 11. I personally walked on the moon.
> 12. I helped create the moon hoax.



LOL xD  I love this topic


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## Kian (Sep 2, 2008)

I did not claim that God ordained any nation as the greatest or anything of the sort. All I said was that I am thankful that I was born in the United States and that I am blessed to live a happy and fulfilling life.

I really don't see what the problem with that is.


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## Dene (Sep 2, 2008)

I think anyone that is prepared to believe such conspiracy theory stuff is an idiot - offence intended. Are you that jealous?



> also those astronauts were totally justified in both their anger and their violence. if you had a bunch of attention-craving morons coming up to you and telling you that what you worked for your entire life was a lie, then you would probably punch people too. come to think of it, i would probably punch that guy too.



I disagree, violence of any form is never acceptable, no matter what. It is merely an excuse of the weakminded.


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## DAE_JA_VOO (Sep 2, 2008)

brunson said:


> DAE_JA_VOO and Kubismo, could you post pictures of yourselves wearing your foil hats? It'd be cool. Really.



Sure thing. Myself:








My dog:








And my cat:






Stop being such a chop. My opinion is mine. No need to be nasty about it. I can't remember ever treating YOU in a similar fashion.


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## Lofty (Sep 2, 2008)

You did insult the US govt and its people and saying no offense after something offensive doesn't make the original statement less offensive.... that could be taken as nasty.
So tho you haven't been nasty to Dene you have been in general.


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## Dene (Sep 2, 2008)

But i'm not American? I think you're talking about Mr. brunson, not me >.<


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## tim (Sep 2, 2008)

Kian said:


> I did not claim that God ordained any nation as the greatest or anything of the sort.



No one says that you claimed that.


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## Bounb (Sep 2, 2008)

Bounb said:


> Give me one piece of 'evidence' countering this and I will tell you why you are wrong.





Kubismo said:


> How did the astronauts survive the van Allen radiation belt?



The spacecraft spent approximately 30 minutes moving through a radiation belt and the astronauts had some protection from the radiation by the aluminium hulls of the spacecraft (harmful ionizing radiation can be slowed or stopped entirely with a little bit lead or aluminium, alpha radiation is easily stopped, low level beta will be stopped by 3mm of aluminium.). Further, NASA made efforts to ensure that the trajectory from the Earth to the Moon through the belts was selected to minimize radiation exposure. Supposedly, Van Allen whom after the radiation belts in space are named personally rebutted the claims that radiation levels were too dangerous for the Apollo missions. 

Dosimeters carried by the crews showed they received about the same cumulative dosage as a chest X-ray or about 1 milligray. Phil Plait cites (in Bad Astronomy, a book) an average dose of less than 1 rem, which is equivalent to the ambient radiation received by living at sea level for three years. 

The radiation belts are not evidence for the hoaxed moon landing. In fact it is funny you should choose this line of attack as the radiation is actually evidence that the astronauts actually DID go to the moon. 

Irene Schneider (whose area of expertise and research is focused around planet Mars and its radiation environments!) reported (on a November 2005 episode of The Space Show podcast) that thirty-three of the thirty-six Apollo astronauts involved in the nine Apollo missions to leave Earth orbit have early stage cataracts that have been shown to be caused by radiation exposure to cosmic rays during their trip. (Wikipedia)

Any more?


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## MistArts (Sep 2, 2008)

Maybe we need to check Neil Armestrong's passport .


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## AvGalen (Sep 2, 2008)

Dene said:


> I think anyone that is prepared to believe such conspiracy theory stuff is an idiot - offence intended. Are you that jealous?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In this case violence is not acceptable. Punching someone because he insults you is way overreacting.
But I can imagine many cases were violence is acceptable, like self-defense or reaction to an enemy that isn't interested in talking/listening


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## Dorsenstein (Sep 2, 2008)

You know what I say about this:

My favorite shade of MOON sticker is regolith!



Sorry, I just thought that was pretty funny.

if you don't know what regolith is, read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regolith


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## Derrick Eide17 (Sep 2, 2008)

Scissors12321 

thats what i think.


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## Odin (Sep 2, 2008)

Yes they did, and the U.S. has proof

1. the Apollo astronauts landed on the moon then put reflector like pyramids (kind of like the ones on your bike BUT HUGE) on certain areas of the moons face so earth scientists could beam a laser like light to that spot and learn more about the surface of the moon. (You can find pictures/results of this test on line just Google "moon reflectors" 

2 there’s satellite images of the Apollo astronauts foot prints which pictures where token via satellite.

(Both of those could not be there if the Apollo astronauts never went to the moon)

Also Myth Busters did A LOT of tests about this and showed the giant laser thingy which I think was kinda cool


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## Pedro (Sep 2, 2008)

tim said:


> Kian said:
> 
> 
> > I did not claim that God ordained any nation as the greatest or anything of the sort.
> ...



so what was the point of your first post?


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## Squircifer (Sep 2, 2008)

*mooniemericas*

Interestingly enough, I am an american and I think the US Gov Sucks. Plain and simple. Before anyone *****es about that, it is my opinion.. whether it offends you or not... for the record, I am a decorated Gulf War vet.. fought for the country, freedom all the advertisement stuff the army and all have on thier nifty little billboards.. and I still think that the gov is ass. Their treatment of gulf war vets is shabby and I could go on, but since it is my opinion I need not. I am thankful I am still alive, that I am able to do things most people could only dream about and to have people who love me dearly... all of these things were made possible by me and my actions. A freak accident of birth had something to do with it as well. 

Now, on to the poll thingy... of course they walked on the moon.. the government says they did, and gosh durn it, since it is the bestes nation in the universe it is true. And to show my abilities I ahve included a pic of me with the tinfoil crown and evil creation of the moon folks... thank goodness an american did not create this wonderful toy!!

http://www.squirrelsisland.com/hat.jpg

And yes that is me.


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## brunson (Sep 2, 2008)

DAE_JA_VOO said:


> brunson said:
> 
> 
> > DAE_JA_VOO and Kubismo, could you post pictures of yourselves wearing your foil hats? It'd be cool. Really.
> ...


I was just poking a little fun, it wasn't meant to be a real insult. If you felt it was, then I apologize.


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## Dene (Sep 2, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> But I can imagine many cases were violence is acceptable, like self-defense or reaction to an enemy that isn't interested in talking/listening



Really? I'd rather take the beating than fight back, personally (of course, my first option would be to run, and I'm surprisingly fast for my size, so that works in my favour). Of course i'm an "extreme" kind of pacifist, so that's just me. I still think that violence can never be accounted for.


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## tim (Sep 2, 2008)

Pedro said:


> tim said:
> 
> 
> > Kian said:
> ...



That's what he said: "I thank God I'm able to live here". No claim about better countries or stuff like that. But the statement itself is ********. Even if you believe in an almighty god.


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## qqwref (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm extremely surprised that there are actually people here who seriously think that we have not walked on the moon at all. The fact that an idea is a conspiracy theory should already be enough to take it with a pile of salt.

Mythbusters did a recent segment where they debunked several claims of how the moon landing could have been faked or how the photos or video couldn't have been taken on the moon. For those who didn't see it, at the end they mentioned that on one trip some of the astronauts left a retroreflector on the moon, which is a man-made device that reflects incident light exactly back in the direction it came. At an observatory, they shone a laser at that spot and received photons of light of the same frequency with a time delay appropriate to light that bounced off the moon. They also indicated that this same experiment has been replicated many times by other people. The moon's surface scatters light so the chance of a photon randomly coming back in exactly the same direction is extremely small, which means there must be a man-made (and relatively delicate!) object on the moon and that therefore people put it there themselves.


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## Lofty (Sep 3, 2008)

tim said:


> Pedro said:
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> > tim said:
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Care to explain why it is bull?


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## Pedro (Sep 3, 2008)

Lofty said:


> tim said:
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> > Pedro said:
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QIA


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## Guoguodi (Sep 3, 2008)

Conspiracy theories are retarded. So is this thread.


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## gogozerg (Sep 3, 2008)

DAE_JA_VOO said:


> brunson said:
> 
> 
> > DAE_JA_VOO and Kubismo, could you post pictures of yourselves wearing your foil hats? It'd be cool. Really.
> ...


Ernö Rubik?!?


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## shadowpartner (Sep 3, 2008)

i believe,through observation of the laws of light and physics,they were never on the moon.


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## toast (Sep 3, 2008)

I believe they were, but I don't see how this really makes an affect on our lives, they may not or may have walked on the moon. It's not like if they confessed it was fake that it was the only lie the US government has spoken.


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## CAT13 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think that NASA needs to stop wasting their dang money and DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE!!!!!
There is no point in researching space and everything out in space. If there is any other life supporting planet, we already know that it is NOT in our solar system. It will take us years after years to get there. Centuries and centuries there is no freaken point. "Oh lets go jump on the moon and see if there are any rocks up their. Maybe there used to be life there..." WHO CARES!?!? Focus on your own planet


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## Dene (Sep 3, 2008)

There is good reason to research outer space! Imagine the plethora of knowledge to be gained. Also, I don't agree with your "centuries" proposal, artificial intelligence should be able to get use there in the next few decades.


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## JBCM627 (Sep 3, 2008)

Conspiracy theories? who are you all kidding. Of course the moon landing was a hoax. So were spirit and opportunity actually; those were just really nice photoshopped pictures from Alaska. Same with Cassini. And 9/11. And the JFK assasination. Actually, you are a hoax too.


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## toast (Sep 3, 2008)

CAT13 said:


> I think that NASA needs to stop wasting their dang money and DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE!!!!!
> There is no point in researching space and everything out in space. If there is any other life supporting planet, we already know that it is NOT in our solar system. It will take us years after years to get there. Centuries and centuries there is no freaken point. "Oh lets go jump on the moon and see if there are any rocks up their. Maybe there used to be life there..." WHO CARES!?!? Focus on your own planet



Soon, our planet may be too polluted to live on. Where shall humankind thrive?


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## JBCM627 (Sep 3, 2008)

toast said:


> CAT13 said:
> 
> 
> > I think that NASA needs to stop wasting their dang money and DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE!!!!!
> ...



Actually, believe it or not, they are. Some of their underlying motives include the long term survival of the human race as a whole. My brother in law to be just started working as an engineer at mission control in Houston, so I can speak from hearing about his new job... there were apparently quite a few orientation presentations that talked about how all of what they were doing is for the good of humanity. And actually considering what they are doing, their budget isn't very big at all...


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## Dene (Sep 3, 2008)

Yes well, you see, the US are too busy spending their money on bombs


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 3, 2008)

qqwref said:


> Mythbusters...



You mean the guys who showed us how to solve cubes BLD and with feet?

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=zePA3uIbB5I


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Sep 3, 2008)

I voted for "yes, i think so" because I think so, haha.

and i think your hoax material is the dumbest thing i've ever wasted my time watching


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## Bounb (Sep 3, 2008)

CAT13 said:


> I think that NASA needs to stop wasting their dang money and DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE!!!!!
> There is no point in researching space and everything out in space. If there is any other life supporting planet, we already know that it is NOT in our solar system. It will take us years after years to get there. Centuries and centuries there is no freaken point. "Oh lets go jump on the moon and see if there are any rocks up their. Maybe there used to be life there..." WHO CARES!?!? Focus on your own planet



What an utterly RIDICULOUS thing to say.
Do you know what the acronym NASA stands for?

*National Aeronautics and Space Administration*

Space is their domain. I don't know what you think about missions to the Moon or Mars or whatever but the idea is most certainly not to just "go jump on the moon and see if there are any rocks up their [sic]".

Important fundamental experiments are carried out on these missions which will greatly further our understanding of space. You must be extremely selfish and naive to criticise these projects in this way.


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## qqwref (Sep 3, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> (source: herbreck from Colorado, USA)



That's a user comment, which anyone can type. Many of the other user comments just point to the film being a mockumentary, a satire (and apparently a pretty good one which I wanna see now). Can you find anyone authoritative (i.e. anyone worth trusting) who thinks the landing was a fake?

And as for the dearth of photos and documents - honestly, nobody cares about the moon anymore. Nowadays we all realize the huge cost and immense distances involved in sending even an unmanned probe into space, and nobody thinks there is anything interesting or useful up there that is within our reach. We've already been to the moon and Mars is just too far away. The people who are really the most interested in the old moon landing idea are just going to be, well, conspiracy theorists.


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## MTGjumper (Sep 3, 2008)

Bounb said:


> What an utterly RIDICULOUS thing to say.
> Do you know what the acronym NASA stands for?
> 
> *National Aeronautics and Space Administration*
> ...




I completely agree with this. I had to argue in a Physics class that space exploration in general was a waste of time and resources. Before researching the topic thoroughly, I had no real opinion on the matter, but after looking into it, I realised how important space exploration was, not just to further our understanding of space, but to benefit our own lifestyle.

Also, for what it's worth, I believe man landed on the moon.


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## Kian (Sep 3, 2008)

if that's not it, tim, i'm not exactly sure what you're getting at.


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## CAT13 (Sep 3, 2008)

toast said:


> Soon, our planet may be too polluted to live on. Where shall humankind thrive?



Humankind won't thrive. We will all die and over many many many many many many many many many many many many many years, (almost) all evidence of humans will disappear forever and other animals will have their chance to thrive.


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## toast (Sep 4, 2008)

CAT13 said:


> toast said:
> 
> 
> > Soon, our planet may be too polluted to live on. Where shall humankind thrive?
> ...



Are you sure humans won't wipe out animals before we get wiped out?


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## hawkmp4 (Sep 4, 2008)

Well, hopefully at least some microbes will survive, at which point they may evolve into animals. Or God will make them *POOF* into more humans. Whichever theory you subscribe to.


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## CAT13 (Sep 4, 2008)

toast said:


> CAT13 said:
> 
> 
> > toast said:
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I don't know. Humans are stupid and will probably kill everything


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## KConny (Sep 4, 2008)

I made up my mind when I was in like sixth grade. I had this thought:
Who are most keen to expose the moon walking as hoax? I'd say that it would have to be the Russians, since of the space race . And why wouldn't they spend a crapazilion rubles on trying to prove it was a hoax? Their not just as stupid/bored as Kubsismo.


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## Pedro (Sep 4, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> "The Russians" just do not think it is useful to
> come out with this information (at least not yet);



why wouldn't it be useful?


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## MTGjumper (Sep 4, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> I speak 7 languages (incl. Russian) b.t.w., and the last
> time they tested me, my I.Q. turned out to be >156.
> (The scale of this test only went up to 156; not that I
> care about this sort of thing, Mensa meetings are boring.)
> ...




Boasting about your IQ on a message board is pointless. It doesn't really add much to this discussion anyway, since having a high IQ does not validate your opinion.

I'm surprised that the Russians wouldn't have come out with the information that they thought the moon landing was a hoax, anyway.


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## DcF1337 (Sep 4, 2008)

The smartest of men can make the silliest mistakes.

I second MTGjumper. It's your opinion, anyway. Just an opinion.


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## tim (Sep 4, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> I speak 7 languages (incl. Russian) b.t.w., and the last
> time they tested me, my I.Q. turned out to be >156.
> (The scale of this test only went up to 156; not that I
> care about this sort of thing, Mensa meetings are boring.)



Why did you mention your I.Q. if you don't care about it?


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## Bounb (Sep 4, 2008)

> Question: Did the Americans walk on the Moon?
> 
> Answer: Yes. Yes of course they did.
> 
> Give me one piece of 'evidence' countering this and I will tell you why you are wrong.



I'm waiting for more 'evidence'. Do not post a link, but post as many points as you like.


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## qqwref (Sep 4, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> I speak 7 languages (incl. Russian) b.t.w., and the last
> time they tested me, my I.Q. turned out to be >156.
> (The scale of this test only went up to 156; not that I
> care about this sort of thing, Mensa meetings are boring.)



A high IQ is worth nothing if you aren't willing to take a fair look at both sides of an issue. (Besides, those tests are probably flawed; I think anyone with a good education and the motivation to do well can score well over 100. Also, your IQ is not ">156" if you got a 156 which was the test's highest score, because there is some error involved in that you won't get the same score every time you take the test.)

I did take a look at both sides a while ago, and as with many others I have come to the conclusion that all of the theories made by those who believe the moon landing was a hoax are false because they are easily debunked by those who have a better understanding of exactly how the sound/photos were edited before they were released to the public (and yes, they were), physics in a vacuum, the properties of moon dust, etc. This Wikipedia page does a pretty good job of explaining a great deal of these things.

Also remember that prejudice solves nothing. You keep implying that anyone who believes the moon landing was not a hoax is an extreme American nationalist, for instance. You should know that if this happened to any other country I'd defend their space voyages as well, provided that their hoaxists' allegations were as silly as ours are. I don't care about promoting America, but I do care about promoting the truth.


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## CAT13 (Sep 4, 2008)

I really don't see why everyone really cares about the videos. Just because the videos are fake, doesn't mean that they weren't really on the moon. Maybe they forgot the camera  I don't think that they did go on they moon. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. I could really care less. The only reason I keep on reading this thread is so that I can see the arguments


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## Escher (Sep 4, 2008)

To show up america. its generally accepted that russia dont have a great relationship with america, and a tool to internationally embarass them would no doubt have been used by now. If they had scientifically credible evidence then im sure they wouldve used it 20 years ago. That argument is a little silly.
apart from raising public morale, why would they fake it? why bother? im afraid that many of the arguments can be scientifically proven to be false. therefore they are not really opinions. just erroneous interpretation of facts. then, the conspiracists arguments are rather far-fetched. Occams Razor is a useful principle here. then we can take into account that many humans like sensationalism. why would tabloid newspapers and gossip magazines sell so well otherwise? personally (this is an opinion) i think that conspiracy theories are just a slightly more educated form of gossip magazines. Sorry if i offend you, but im a chronic sceptic of things like this.


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## Dorsenstein (Sep 4, 2008)

You know what I did? I voted for all of 'em. You know why? Because this thread confuses the hell out of me. I don't give a crap on whether we went to the moon or not, because, as CAT13 said, we're all gonna die anyway, so what does it matter? All these advances are absolute bull. Even though it's a record of our history all the other beings after us will think how stupid we are and think how humans were dumb and arrogant. I know this post is really pessimistic. But that's what I believe.


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## tim (Sep 4, 2008)

Dorsenstein said:


> I don't give a crap on whether we went to the moon or not.



We? The speedsolving community? I definitely have never went to the moon.


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## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> Mostly because of "the Jews" (Kissinger, Hollywood, CNN), "the
> Americans" and their satellite-states have a wrong perception
> of "the Russians".



WTF


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## immortalcube (Sep 5, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> Mostly because of "the Jews" (Kissinger, Hollywood, CNN), "the
> Americans" and their satellite-states have a wrong perception
> of "the Russians".


Where exactly do the Jews come in on a debate about whether Americans went to the moon? Also, I fail to see how Hollywood or CNN are Jewish (although maybe I'm just blind to that conspiracy too :confused. And wasn't Kissinger a German? or maybe he was just born in Germany.


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## CAT13 (Sep 5, 2008)

Dorsenstein said:


> You know what I did? I voted for all of 'em. You know why? Because this thread confuses the hell out of me. I don't give a crap on whether we went to the moon or not, because, as CAT13 said, we're all gonna die anyway, so what does it matter? All these advances are absolute bull. Even though it's a record of our history all the other beings after us will think how stupid we are and think how humans were dumb and arrogant. I know this post is really pessimistic. But that's what I believe.



WOOHOO! .


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## xspamx (Sep 5, 2008)

how about a video of someone solving a rubik's cube on the moon?


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## Lofty (Sep 5, 2008)

Man I only speak English (with a little Spanish and learning Chinese) what I think of about the whether or not we went to the moon must be invalid since language and science/physics are related disciplines.
And too bad we don't our children as much maybe then we would have a better space program...


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## qqwref (Sep 5, 2008)

Too lazy:



Kubismo said:


> (I know, this may be difficult for those of you who grew up
> under constant America-America-über-alles conditioning.)



Pro-moon = nationalist.



Kubismo said:


> The relevant information is that I speak seven languages fluently,
> like the Serbian genius Nikola Tesla and unlike the vast majority
> of people born and grown up in North America who are quite limited
> by being mono-lingual, or should I say: semi-literate in one language...



Linguistic knowledge has nothing to do with science.



Kubismo said:


> Even among Americans, there are exceptions, for instance my
> woman in the 1990's when I lived and worked in N.Y.C. - Brooklyn
> residency...


"My woman", lololol. Also I don't like this "even among Americans statement", it's obvious you are extremely prejudiced and I feel sorry for you.



Kubismo said:


> Mostly because of "the Jews" (Kissinger, Hollywood, CNN), "the
> Americans" and their satellite-states have a wrong perception
> of "the Russians".


(1) lol, anti-semitism; but if the Jews were REALLY in charge wouldn't we have a very negative perception of, say, the Germans? We don't.
(2) Of course we do, we were at war with them for like 50 years. It's not like they (and you) don't have a wrong perception of us.
(3) I went to Russia for a bit and I can agree that they're nice people. But of course this is irrelevant.



Kubismo said:


> You see: Радиационный пояс (=v.Allen belt or whatever you call it)
> cannot be penetrated by Man. (But you're not supposed to know that.)


Lack of proof is not proof of impossibility. Besides, you overestimate it. Wikipedia: "An object satellite shielded by 3 mm of aluminium in an elliptic orbit passing through the radiation belt will receive about 2,500 rem (25 Sv) per year" (van Allen belt artlcle). This is because even small amounts of metals such as that will stop most alpha radiation and some low-energy beta radiation. If you assume shuttle speed = escape valocity you can calculate how long the astronauts spent in the field, obviously less than a day's exposure, which would be 6.8 rem = 68 mSv. Wikipedia: "50 mSv is the yearly federal limit for radiation workers in the United States" (Radiation poisoning article). Radiation is cumulative so this is not that bad for a single trip.


What I can't understand is why you keep responding with allegations and ad hominem attacks instead of actually arguing against our points. Whether we landed on the moon or not has nothing to do with the friendliness, intelligence, or linguistic skill of an average American, or with our relations with Russia, or with how members of the forum act. A supposedly intelligent person such as yourself ought to realize this immediately. It's very easy to continuously accuse the other person of things, but it doesn't solve arguments and it doesn't win people over to your line of thinking; it only creates animosity.


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## Bounb (Sep 5, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> You see: Радиационный пояс (=v.Allen belt or whatever you call it)
> cannot be penetrated by Man. (But you're not supposed to know that.)
> 
> It was called радиационный пояс when van Allen did not even
> have a clue that "his" belt existed.



Did you read my post?



Bounb said:


> Bounb said:
> 
> 
> > Give me one piece of 'evidence' countering this and I will tell you why you are wrong.
> ...


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## JBCM627 (Sep 7, 2008)

Yep, I'm this bored.

http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/index.html

Hrm, looks like thats not even an American site.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Sep 7, 2008)

Kubismo said:


> I "keep implying that anyone who believes the
> moon landing was not a hoax is an extreme American nationalist"
> does not make any sense to me.)



lol



> The *relevant* information is that I speak seven languages fluently,



lol



> Mostly because of "the Jews" (Kissinger, Hollywood, CNN)



lol anti-semitism



> "The Russians" got big Hearts and a whole lot of Soul and "the
> Russians" love their children more than "the Americans" theirs.



The quotation marks and capitalization are excessively silly, not to mention the relevance still hasn't been established.



> You see: Радиационный пояс (=v.Allen belt or whatever you call it)
> cannot be penetrated by Man.



Nice supporting evidence that followed.



> It was called радиационный пояс when van Allen did not even
> have a clue that "his" belt existed.



So when was this?


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## Genie1048 (Sep 19, 2008)

its not even a question, just look into a really good telescope and you can see the American flag we left behind.


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## cookingfat (Sep 19, 2008)

DAE_JA_VOO said:


> Nope. The whole Neil Armstrong thing was total bull crap. There's absolutely no way that they were on the moon. I've done quite a bit of research on the matter and i'm absolutely and undeniably certain that it was bull crap.



Yeah, exactly what he said.


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## tim (Sep 19, 2008)

Genie1048 said:


> its not even a question, just look into a really good telescope and you can see the American flag we left behind.



America has manipulated every single telescope on this world!


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## Bounb (Sep 19, 2008)

Genie1048 said:


> its not even a question, just look into a really good telescope and you can see the American flag we left behind.




Actually, you can't see the flag from the earth unfortunately.
Sure the moon is close, but to have high enough resolution to see the flag is practically impossible. You can mathematically determine this. The primary mirror would have to be over 350 feet wide. At this size you would not be able to resolve the flag on earth still because of the turbulence in the Earth's atmosphere (This "turbulence" has effects on even the smallest scopes. As you are looking through so much atmosphere it can be hard to get sharp images with all that 'wobbling' about. It looks like the distortion when you look through hot air above the surface of a road). I understand actually that there is/was a satellite/probe that would have been able to see the flag but it does not fly along the correct latitude. Not sure about that though.


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## rjohnson_8ball (Sep 19, 2008)

Back in those days they did not have technical ability to fake such stuff. I remember a camera pointed at the moon's surface as they were orbiting, descending, and landing. I have no doubt they did it. I watched it unfold for hours. I tell you, people develop conspiracy theories, and once they get spread around and heard a few times, people naturally start to take them as fact. By the way, a good site to check rumors is Snopes.com.


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## JBCM627 (Jul 17, 2009)

I remembered this thread when I read the following article... thought I'd resurrect it. Yet more proof the moon landings weren't hoaxes:

http://www.livescience.com/space/090717-lro-apollo11-images.html


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## JTW2007 (Jul 17, 2009)

Yes! And I can win the debate!


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## ConnorCuber (Jul 17, 2009)

Well, I just found THIS: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090716/ap_on_sc/us_sci_moon_video

Read it, and lol.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 17, 2009)

JBCM627 said:


> I remembered this thread when I read the following article... thought I'd resurrect it. Yet more proof the moon landings weren't hoaxes:
> 
> http://www.livescience.com/space/090717-lro-apollo11-images.html



But of course the conspiracy theorist will say that new evidence is coming to light to prove it was all a hoax, and their theories are starting to be accepted by more people, so of course NASA had to create a new "probe" to send back "evidence". And of course it's all just CGI photos. And when the closer images start coming back that look real, they'll probably start picking apart the photos to show how they couldn't possibly be the real thing.

This will just add fuel to the fire - watch and see.


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## Kian (Jul 17, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> JBCM627 said:
> 
> 
> > I remembered this thread when I read the following article... thought I'd resurrect it. Yet more proof the moon landings weren't hoaxes:
> ...



Indeed it will.

The problem with careeer conspiracy theorist is that they will entertain any possibility except the prevailing wisdom. To them, it is completely impossible for something to be as it seems. You can't argue with them because they're not interested in facts, they're interested in proving something wrong regardless of its truth.


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## Novriil (Jul 17, 2009)

I voted no, not in US and something more  BUT: The americans faked it all in area 51!! but still they have walked on the moon. Just not those americans who were on the apollo that went there first. On those later ones!

Look at some documentals and then judge.. it's all kinda FAKE!


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## Kian (Jul 17, 2009)

Novriil said:


> I voted no, not in US and something more  BUT: The americans faked it all in area 51!! but still they have walked on the moon. Just not those americans who were on the apollo that went there first. On those later ones!
> 
> Look at some documentals and then judge.. it's all kinda FAKE!



Thank you for proving my above point.


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## Feanaro (Jul 17, 2009)

So for those people that say we didn't walk on the moon, do they believe we go into space at all? Because that's provable beyond a doubt. And if they can go into space, it's just a little farther to the moon. I think all these theories about not landing are just silly.


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## Novriil (Jul 17, 2009)

Kian said:


> Novriil said:
> 
> 
> > I voted no, not in US and something more  BUT: The americans faked it all in area 51!! but still they have walked on the moon. Just not those americans who were on the apollo that went there first. On those later ones!
> ...



I didn't bother to read all the replies so WAY TO GO MAN!


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## Kian (Jul 17, 2009)

Novriil said:


> Kian said:
> 
> 
> > Novriil said:
> ...



The point remains that what you wrote was an incoherent list of conspiracy buzzwords void of any original thought, facts, or logic. It's exactly the sort of thing I would write as a joke.


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## royzabeast (Jul 17, 2009)

qqwref said:


> And as for the dearth of photos and documents - honestly, nobody cares about the moon anymore. Nowadays we all realize the huge cost and immense distances involved in sending even an unmanned probe into space, and nobody thinks there is anything interesting or useful up there that is within our reach. We've already been to the moon and Mars is just too far away. The people who are really the most interested in the old moon landing idea are just going to be, well, conspiracy theorists.



I'm not sure, but I think we're planning to send men to Mars I think within the next few years. Does somebody anything about this?



qqwref said:


> (1) lol, anti-semitism; but if the Jews were REALLY in charge wouldn't we have a very negative perception of, say, the Germans? We don't.



Jews don't dislike Germans :/


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## coolmission (Jul 17, 2009)

What an interesting poll; please make some more in the future.


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## Me (Jul 18, 2009)

oh snap look what I just found about what the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter found!
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/17/apollo-landing-sites-imaged-by-lro/


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## JBCM627 (Jul 18, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> But of course the conspiracy theorist will say that new evidence is coming to light to prove it was all a hoax, and their theories are starting to be accepted by more people, so of course NASA had to create a new "probe" to send back "evidence".


Yeah, I realized this. I guess we'll have to wait til another country sends up a probe with high enough resolution. Although then it will be, "But, but the [insert country] are in on it too..."


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 18, 2009)

JBCM627 said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > But of course the conspiracy theorist will say that new evidence is coming to light to prove it was all a hoax, and their theories are starting to be accepted by more people, so of course NASA had to create a new "probe" to send back "evidence".
> ...


The Illuminati, you know...


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## Kian (Jul 18, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> JBCM627 said:
> 
> 
> > Mike Hughey said:
> ...



This all reminds me of Cracked's article on "5 Pathetic groups people think rule the world."

I particularly like the lizard people. That has to be my favorite.


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## kjcellist (Jul 18, 2009)

I have no doubt in my mind that man walked on the moon.


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## JBCM627 (Jul 18, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> The Illuminati, you know...



I only know what you are talking about because I just saw that movie a couple nights ago  Unfortunately I haven't read the book...


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## LNZ (Jul 18, 2009)

I have never doubted the fact. And recently LROC images of the landing sites clearly show "artificial" objects on the moon casting shadows and in case of Apollo 14, the images show the LRV tracks too. And the LRV clearly came from the earth.


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## Dene (Jul 19, 2009)

coolmission said:


> What an interesting poll; please make some more in the future.



I recommend reading through more old posts. A lot of interesting threads have been created in the past.


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## Ellis (Jul 21, 2009)

July 20th, 1969.

Happy 40th anniversary!


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## coolmission (Jul 21, 2009)

Dene said:


> coolmission said:
> 
> 
> > What an interesting poll; please make some more in the future.
> ...



The thread itself is interesting; I was simply mocking the poll, letting the users chose multiple answers, where it should clearly be limited to one (except for the "What an interesting poll; please make some more in the future."-answer, which should of course always be selected by default, thus rendering it's purpose ultimately pointless .


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## Zeroknight (Jul 21, 2009)

lol, it's funny because I don't know if you guys noticed, you can vote for more than one option, those are checkboxes, not radio.


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## Lucas Garron (Jul 21, 2009)

Zeroknight said:


> lol, it's funny because I don't know if you guys noticed, you can vote for more than one option, those are checkboxes, not radio.


We noticed.


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## rjohnson_8ball (Jul 21, 2009)

Lucas Garron said:


> Zeroknight said:
> 
> 
> > lol, it's funny because I don't know if you guys noticed, you can vote for more than one option, those are checkboxes, not radio.
> ...



Hmm, now that I voted once, it won't let me add a 2nd vote of _this poll sucks_. I guess I lost my chance.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Jul 21, 2009)

I believe it, though I do find it peculiar that the flag was in fact, waving on the moon... I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that's not very easily possible..


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## Ethan Rosen (Jul 21, 2009)

aznmortalx said:


> I believe it, though I do find it peculiar that the flag was in fact, waving on the moon... I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that's not very easily possible..



:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMBCfuKs9i8


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## JoseRubik (Jul 21, 2009)

Did you see this yesterday?


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## Feanaro (Jul 21, 2009)

aznmortalx said:


> I believe it, though I do find it peculiar that the flag was in fact, waving on the moon... I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that's not very easily possible..



Just....go watch mythbusters, and you might learn something.


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## blade740 (Jul 22, 2009)

coolmission said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > coolmission said:
> ...



The idea was that you choose (up to) three answers: whether you believe the americans walked on the moon, whether you are from the US, and whether you like the poll.


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