# Probability breakdown of F2L cases?



## fleeting_penguin (Sep 15, 2007)

Where could I find a listing of Fridrich F2L cases by the probability of them occurring? I need to know which ones I will use a lot and should learn by memory.


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## clincher (Sep 15, 2007)

In cubestation there are probality for PLL I'm not sure if there are for F2L too. you should check that page


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## cmhardw (Sep 15, 2007)

They all are of roughly equal probability based on experience, but of course some cases will occur slightly more of less often than others.



> I need to know which ones I will use a lot and should learn by memory.



I would recommend definitely do not learn cases by memory. Learn to do the F2L intuitively by first pairing up the corner and edge, then inserting that pair. Although I learned the F2L by rote memory I think eventually you learn to understand what each sequence achieves and why it works.

Better to start on intuitive approach now by just practicing, without the timer, how to solve each F2L case. Then as you build an understanding of what you are doing you can do any F2L case without having to learn them by memory, which although this is how I learned is in my opinion a terrible way to learn the F2L.

My $0.02
Chris


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## masterofthebass (Sep 15, 2007)

I learned F2L intuitively by using macky's page. He says the basic moves, and the what you try to accomplish. I took that and then spent a decent amound of time playing around with every case I got. When I felt I knew everything, I compared what I was doing to macky's algorithms, and it ended up being extremely similar except for a couple of cases (flipped edge for example). I can now, about 5 months later, can sub 10 my F2L and my PB is 12.77 (OLL skip). It just takes practice.


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## fleeting_penguin (Sep 15, 2007)

Well doing the probabilities out they are fairly equal...

I know the three cases from badmephisto's video, but it seems I spend a lot of times breaking up things so I can join them, and in general a lot of time thinking when I shouldn't be. For example, I don't see how many people get the cross out in like three seconds. I suppose it just takes practice. But I am going to review some algs for the tricker cases to see if I can find some shortcuts.


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## DanHarris (Sep 16, 2007)

fleeting_penguin said:


> I don't see how many people get the cross out in like three seconds. I suppose it just takes practice.



Yes, it is just practise  Have you seen my cross tutorial? http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=3x3x3/cfop/cross/cross

The cross should be done in 2 - 2.5 seconds, max

Dan


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## Johannes91 (Sep 16, 2007)

The cases where both pieces are in F2L should be 4 times less probable than others.


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## masterofthebass (Sep 16, 2007)

yeah. My main problem is the cross. I have no idea how to use double-layer, and my cross can end up being around 5 seconds.


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## fleeting_penguin (Sep 16, 2007)

Johannes91 said:


> The cases where both pieces are in F2L should be 4 times less probable than others.


Well, the way I do F2L (probably wrong) is to find a non-yellow edge in the top layer and its respective corner while doing the previous alg. So the probability of the corner being on top and bottom are equal for the first corner, and gets higher after each solved CE pair. So if anything, I should be studying the ones with the CE pair already on top of the cube.

Or am I supposed to do recognition another way?


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## badmephisto (Sep 16, 2007)

DanHarris said:


> fleeting_penguin said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see how many people get the cross out in like three seconds. I suppose it just takes practice.
> ...



its a nice tutorial on cross. I wish people would stress more though that it is not only the number of moves that matters, but also how fast you can do them.if your solution only has 5 moves, what does it matter when you need to regrip 3 times? Also, for example, solving an incorrectly flipped edge from UR to FD can be done with a lightning fast trigger R' F R, which is technically 3 moves, but is sometimes an alternative i would gladly choose. When I solve the cross I don't only try to minimize the number of moves, but also the number of regrips and I try to maximize the number of finger tricks I can perform as well.


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## Johannes91 (Sep 16, 2007)

badmephisto said:


> if your solution only has 5 moves, what does it matter when you need to regrip 3 times?


That's very unrealistic. Or please show a sequence of 5 moves that requires 3 regrips.

Going for quick finger tricks is not a very good idea in the beginning of the solve IMO, unless you are extremely good at looking ahead. Even awkwards sequences can be done with very reasonable speed.


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