# [Video] Roux as a Beginner Method



## DeeDubb (May 12, 2014)

So, I put together a series of videos over the weekend explaining how to solve a cube. It's targeted for complete beginners who can't solve the cube at all. The pace is very slow, but it's extremely thorough. The first video covers basic concepts (cube is made of pieces, centers don't change places, every piece is unique) and also notation. From there, it goes into a simplified form of Roux, where the DF edge is used to load the edge pieces onto the corner piece. This is, of course, not efficient, but neither is the beginner's method. Once they get through the first two blocks, I show how to use Niklas to permute the corners and Sune to orient the corners. From there it's L6E, which isn't terribly difficult. I also keep track of which moves are allowed and not allowed during each step.

Positives to using Roux as a beginner method:
No rotations, so beginner's shouldn't get lost.
Simplified block building concepts are easy to follow.
The only step where you could possibly mess up what you've already done is CMLL, and the two algorithms for that are very easy.

Negatives:
The one I could think of is that if they have a very poor cube, M slices may be difficult.

Anyway, I really need people to test out my video series, so if you are a complete beginner, or know a beginner, or you are an advanced user who just wants to "audit" my series, feel free to watch and give me any feedback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB-y0XQiN0M&list=PLajHGvYF36nSsL1r_DqrpDY07TnJwqEpn

*Part 1: Fundamentals and Notation*


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*Part 2: Left Block *


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*Part 3: Right Block *


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*Part 4: Corner Permutation *


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*Part 5: Corner Orientation *


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*Part 6: Fixing Bad Edges *


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*Part 7: Solving Left and Right Edges *


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*Part 8: Last Four Edges*


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## kcl (May 12, 2014)

This is an awesome idea. I never considered roux to be a beginner like method as I'm pretty awful at it myself, but this makes me feel otherwise.


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## DeeDubb (May 12, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> This is an awesome idea. I never considered roux to be a beginner like method as I'm pretty awful at it myself, but this makes me feel otherwise.



Thank you, I appreciate it.

It's hard to tailor my video to everyone's needs, so it probably would be too slow for some people. I would rather have too much information than too little though, so hopefully enough people are patient enough to make it through the hour+ of video.


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## Lady Pitch (May 12, 2014)

YES! Thank you for this. This is awesome. You couldn't have posted this at a more perfect time for me. 
I was just talking with Brest last night about Roux, he was trying to help me understand. The last handful of steps are throwing me for a loop and all the other video tutorials and written explanations were not computing inside my brain.

I love this.
This is exactly what I needed.


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## DeeDubb (May 12, 2014)

Lady Pitch said:


> YES! Thank you for this. This is awesome. You couldn't have posted this at a more perfect time for me.
> I was just talking with Brest last night about Roux, he was trying to help me understand. The last handful of steps are throwing me for a loop and all the other video tutorials and written explanations were not computing inside my brain.
> 
> I love this.
> This is exactly what I needed.



I'm so glad it worked for you. Thank you for your feedback, and welcome to the Roux darkside


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## Lady Pitch (May 12, 2014)

i have been sitting here for the past 30 minutes and FINALLY feel like I can comfortably get up to orienting my last 6 edges... now onto the last two steps and if by the end of the day I can solve the cube within 4 minutes using roux... if we ever meet i am hugging you SO HARD.


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## GuRoux (May 12, 2014)

very nice videos. Now they can't say there isn't a good tutorial about roux.


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## DeeDubb (May 12, 2014)

GuRoux said:


> very nice videos. Now they can't say there isn't a good tutorial about roux.



Wow, thank you so much GuRoux. That really means a lot coming from you.


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## GuRoux (May 12, 2014)

Thanks, the videos actually teaches a very easy to learn beginner's roux. I'm sure you'll be doing more advanced versions later?


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## Rocky0701 (May 12, 2014)

Awesome! I have been trying to find some good Roux tutorials that i can understand. I will watch them tonight and then guve feedback.


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## Lady Pitch (May 12, 2014)

So my current average for CFOP is around 1min... after learning the Roux method (over the past day) thanks to your videos I am at 1:35min solving. I thought it was going to be a lot slower for a lot longer. Heh.
Thank you again for these videos. I am excited to continue perfecting this method.


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## DeeDubb (May 12, 2014)

GuRoux said:


> Thanks, the videos actually teaches a very easy to learn beginner's roux. I'm sure you'll be doing more advanced versions later?



I was thinking of adding supplemental videos for each step that show and "intermediate version". For now, I'm pointing people to the other guides, like Donovan's. My main goal is to give people a stepping stone to fill the gap between Roux as a speedsolving method, and just being able to solve the cube. The way that Beginner's Method transfers easily to CFOP is how I want my Roux Beginner's Method to transfer to Roux as a speedsolving method.



Rocky0701 said:


> Awesome! I have been trying to find some good Roux tutorials that i can understand. I will watch them tonight and then guve feedback.



Thanks Rocky. For you, I would use: Donovan's Roux Tutorial for corners, because you already know most of the algorithms. My version is very simple (only two algorithms for corners), but also not very fast. But, my block building stuff should help you, and also my edge stuff. Good luck!



Lady Pitch said:


> So my current average for CFOP is around 1min... after learning the Roux method (over the past day) thanks to your videos I am at 1:35min solving. I thought it was going to be a lot slower for a lot longer. Heh.
> Thank you again for these videos. I am excited to continue perfecting this method.



Wow! Congrats! After you get comfortable solving my way, start looking at the other guides again, especially for block building. My method is NOT fast, it's just meant to get you solving. It's the stepping stone to Roux as a speed method.

Also, you can watch my Walkthrough Solves video, where I use more advanced methods for each step:


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## streamer45 (May 20, 2014)

Many thanks to the author. Even a total noob like myself was able to follow and get it done! Great stuff!


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## DeeDubb (May 20, 2014)

streamer45 said:


> Many thanks to the author. Even a total noob like myself was able to follow and get it done! Great stuff!



I really appreciate that feedback. I'm glad my video is helping some people. I will start to work on follow up videos when I get more time to help people progress into speed solving.


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## TheOneOnTheLeft (May 20, 2014)

Seems like a pretty solid tutorial from what I've watched of it. I think some good additions would be a discussion of colour neutrality (I know you aren't colour neutral, but a lot of Roux users are), and M-slice technique. You touch on it in the first video, but it's a good thing to establish early on to avoid bad habits: Kirjava's write-up describes the same technique I use, and using that technique means you never have issues transitioning between any M move and any U move. Again, it seems that this differs from your style, but I think it's worth looking into. Overall, it's always nice to see encouragement and resources for people to pick up different methods rather than blindly diving into CFOP.


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## DeeDubb (May 20, 2014)

TheOneOnTheLeft said:


> Seems like a pretty solid tutorial from what I've watched of it. I think some good additions would be a discussion of colour neutrality (I know you aren't colour neutral, but a lot of Roux users are), and M-slice technique. You touch on it in the first video, but it's a good thing to establish early on to avoid bad habits: Kirjava's write-up describes the same technique I use, and using that technique means you never have issues transitioning between any M move and any U move. Again, it seems that this differs from your style, but I think it's worth looking into. Overall, it's always nice to see encouragement and resources for people to pick up different methods rather than blindly diving into CFOP.



Thanks for the feedback. I will touch on those things in follow-up videos intending to transition them into speed solving. For now, the main thing is just getting them to solve the cube. I'm not teaching them a speed solving method, just an alternative to the beginner method (which, of course, isn't a speed solving method either).


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## DeeDubb (Jun 9, 2014)

So, I'm considering where to take this series from here. The two directions I'm considering:

1. Create follow ups for each video in the series, explaining how to transition from beginner style into actual Roux.

2. Put out example solve videos and Roux tips/tricks videos every week until I run out. 

Honestly, my original intention was going with 1, but the more I consider the currently available resources, I feel like having more example solves and tips/tricks people can add to their arsenal might be overall more beneficial.

There's also a 3rd option:

3. SHUT UP UNTIL YOU ARE SUB-15 NOOB! This one is kind of reasonable, but I think even at my intermediate level, there's lots of cool stuff I've picked up along the way that might help up and comers.

Anyway, what do you guys think?


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## PJKCuber (Jun 9, 2014)

Hi DeeDubb, I recently watched your series and it is amazing!!!! I think you should create follow ups for your begginers tutorial. YOu could do example solves, but maybe just one or two.


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## Logiqx (Jun 9, 2014)

I just wanted to say that I enjoyed watching your videos, whilst I was on my rowing machine! They are really well made an deserve a much wider audience.

What I particularly liked was how you can potentially scale the method into fully optimised Roux. I think your plan to write follow up videos for intermediate and advanced solvers is a good one.

Keep up the good work!


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## DeeDubb (Jun 9, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> Hi DeeDubb, I recently watched your series and it is amazing!!!! I think you should create follow ups for your begginers tutorial. YOu could do example solves, but maybe just one or two.



Thank you for watching, and giving feedback! 



Logiqx said:


> I just wanted to say that I enjoyed watching your videos, whilst I was on my rowing machine! They are really well made an deserve a much wider audience.
> 
> What I particularly liked was how you can potentially scale the method into fully optimised Roux. I think your plan to write follow up videos for intermediate and advanced solvers is a good one.
> 
> Keep up the good work!



I'm glad my videos made good workout viewing. I guess that means they filled time well.

It sounds like I really should move into intermediate for now. I will do advanced when I consider myself advanced or expert. Right now, I'm deep into intermediate, so I think I'm qualified to speak on that at least.

Actually, I'll just do all 3 kinds of videos, I think. I'll start doing intermediate videos, and also have 1 example solve and 1 tip per week. I think for Roux, getting more information out there is the best way to do it. 

As for the wider audience, of course I agree  . However, they are new, and I'm not really pushing them around anywhere yet. I think when I have a good library of videos, maybe I'll see if some bigger YouTube cubers might toss me a promo, but I want to make sure my content is fully worthy of being promoted beforehand.


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## Logiqx (Jun 9, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> I guess that means they filled time well.



It was great to see a new method being proposed for complete beginners. Based on your rate of improvement you seem well qualified to do videos for Roux intermediates. I'll look forward to gleaning some tips in future videos... I occasionally use Roux for respite from CFOP. 

I did happen to notice the captions for one of the L6E cases didn't match your execution. I think I noted it down at the time and can let you know which one if you like?


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## PJKCuber (Jun 9, 2014)

Thanks DeeDUbb for such a wonderful series. YOu have inspired me to make a CFOP tutorial series optimized for Roux users(even though I'm not so great). I hope some Roux users might be helped. Of course I don't expect anybody to change methods. The same way I know two methods, if any Rouxer would like to know CFOP then they can watch. I'll start from tommorrow.


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## brian724080 (Jun 9, 2014)

I just watched the entire series, and now I finally get L6E, thanks  . The video quality is great, because that's what's keeping me from finishing other tutorials (and the fact that I don't intend to learn Roux).


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## DeeDubb (Jun 9, 2014)

Logiqx said:


> It was great to see a new method being proposed for complete beginners. Based on your rate of improvement you seem well qualified to do videos for Roux intermediates. I'll look forward to gleaning some tips in future videos... I occasionally use Roux for respite from CFOP.



Thanks for the encouragement. I'm glad you enjoy playing around with Roux. I do CFOP solves every now and again (though, I don't know any perms except J and Y, so I just do Roux style PLL for the edge perm). It's good to spread into other methods I think.



Logiqx said:


> I did happen to notice the captions for one of the L6E cases didn't match your execution. I think I noted it down at the time and can let you know which one if you like?



Sure, I'll rewatch and see if I can spot it, but if you have it noted, let me know!



PJKCuber said:


> Thanks DeeDUbb for such a wonderful series. YOu have inspired me to make a CFOP tutorial series optimized for Roux users(even though I'm not so great). I hope some Roux users might be helped. Of course I don't expect anybody to change methods. The same way I know two methods, if any Rouxer would like to know CFOP then they can watch. I'll start from tommorrow.



Good luck! It seems quite specific, but I'll definitely check it out. I know most people go CFOP -> Roux, so most have a pretty good idea about it. I think I'm one of the few who is incompetent with CFOP, so it would be interesting for me to see. My main suggestion would be to try to make it broad enough to make it beneficial for people other than just your target audience.



brian724080 said:


> I just watched the entire series, and now I finally get L6E, thanks  . The video quality is great, because that's what's keeping me from finishing other tutorials (and the fact that I don't intend to learn Roux).



Thanks Brian. You were one of the first to welcome me, which I appreciated. It's amazing to see how much I've learned in under 3 months. I think trying to teach people is a great way to learn more, which is a big motivator for me making these vids.

As for quality, I actually filmed on my phone (Galaxy Note 3), which is 720p. I can't seem to figure out how to get the thing to focus right though, so the camera randomly goes out of focus which is very annoying. I'll play around with it and see if I can fix that. Also, my friend is making me a pretty awesome intro clip that I'm gonna add to videos, to give it a bit of production value, which will be fun.


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## JediJupiter (Jun 9, 2014)

@pjkcuber
Please post the link somewhere when you do that, I'm really excited to be around when so much helpful stuff is going around. On a side note, it's weird that I can't see your avatar, I was almost certain I was a cool kid.
Speaking of useful stuff, if it concerns you, DeeDub, since watching your roux for beginners tutorial two weeks ago (straight after learning the beginners method) my average is sub-50, and I am proud and I have to thank you for such an awesome bunch of videos.


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## Logiqx (Jun 9, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Sure, I'll rewatch and see if I can spot it, but if you have it noted, let me know!



Cross on top - 5:52 to 6:00. The notation for the second and third triggers is written differently to the execution.


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## DeeDubb (Jun 14, 2014)

JediJupiter said:


> @PJKCuber
> Please post the link somewhere when you do that, I'm really excited to be around when so much helpful stuff is going around. On a side note, it's weird that I can't see your avatar, I was almost certain I was a cool kid.
> Speaking of useful stuff, if it concerns you, DeeDub, since watching your roux for beginners tutorial two weeks ago (straight after learning the beginners method) my average is sub-50, and I am proud and I have to thank you for such an awesome bunch of videos.



Jedi, I really appreciate hearing from you. Sub-50 is great. I hope you move on to some more advanced stuff soon! Let me know if there's any advice you'd like, and I"ll see if I can make a video on it.



Logiqx said:


> Cross on top - 5:52 to 6:00. The notation for the second and third triggers is written differently to the execution.



Thank you. I'll take notes on these things, and I think I'm gonna have to redo the series. I see a few things I messed up. Also, I'm going to make it a lot more professional. This series was sort of a test run, and I think it's successful, but it would be nice if it were a bit more polished. I appreciate the feedback.


As for my videos, I just added a new Roux tip. Check it out, and let me know what you think!


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## TDM (Jun 14, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> video


u2 R2 u2 is also good for that case.


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## JediJupiter (Jun 14, 2014)

I will let you know, I might post a solve sometime so you could see what's good and what's not. I've been doing quite good since I was doing what that last video was about already, except Uw2 R2 Uw2 since I like to keep the bottom left in my left hand. Also, it helps me see more of the cube so I can spot the next piece to insert on the second block!


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## DeeDubb (Jun 14, 2014)

TDM said:


> u2 R2 u2 is also good for that case.



That's nice!! I like D2 L2 D2 because I can alternate hands, and and I don't do Uw very well.



JediJupiter said:


> I will let you know, I might post a solve sometime so you could see what's good and what's not. I've been doing quite good since I was doing what that last video was about already, except* Uw2 R2 Uw2 *since I like to keep the bottom left in my left hand. Also, it helps me see more of the cube so I can spot the next piece to insert on the second block!



Looks like you do what TDM does. That's a good sign, cause TDM is an experienced solver


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## TDM (Jun 14, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> That's nice!! I like D2 L2 D2 because I can alternate hands, and and I don't do Uw very well.


That's cool, everyone has their different turning styles.


> Looks like you do what TDM does. That's a good sign, cause TDM is an experienced solver


Not with Roux  I only do Roux occasionally, when I'm really bored. I'm about the same speed as you are.


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## JediJupiter (Jun 14, 2014)

Cool anyway! I'm uploading a video with 5 solves in right now. I'll put them in the critique sticky where I think they belong. I don't know how long it will take though.


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## DeeDubb (Jun 14, 2014)

JediJupiter said:


> Cool anyway! I'm uploading a video with 5 solves in right now. I'll put them in the critique sticky where I think they belong. I don't know how long it will take though.



I'm uploading an Ao5 also, haha. I'll check yours out and let you know what I see.


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## JediJupiter (Jun 14, 2014)

They are in the critique thread now. I think that I've improved a bunch of things since starting, but the second block hasn't really changed. I don't see how else to build it.
Edit: I also hold my cube in a blue front orange top orientation


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## Dane man (Jun 15, 2014)

Wow, after having looked that this, it seems that Roux is very intuitive almost the entire way through. So I had a go at doing Roux without following any tutorial and I got stuck at the orientation of the edges at the end, so I looked, used an alg, and then finished it intuitively. Roux is actually a fantastic beginner method because it doesn't need algs besides those that you can't intuit for yourself (depending on your level of determination to do it intuitively).

Awesome. I like it. I think I might start solving sometimes using Roux now because it's so easy to think through.


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## DeeDubb (Jun 27, 2014)

Dane man said:


> Wow, after having looked that this, it seems that Roux is very intuitive almost the entire way through. So I had a go at doing Roux without following any tutorial and I got stuck at the orientation of the edges at the end, so I looked, used an alg, and then finished it intuitively. Roux is actually a fantastic beginner method because it doesn't need algs besides those that you can't intuit for yourself (depending on your level of determination to do it intuitively).
> 
> Awesome. I like it. I think I might start solving sometimes using Roux now because it's so easy to think through.



Thanks for watching it  Yes, I agree. It might be harder for some people, but others will really enjoy the intuitive nature of solving with Roux. Especially because they can solve most steps without worrying about breaking up their previous steps as long as they follow restricted moves.

Anyway, here's my next tip of the week:

[video=youtube_share;zaKmryHSKcc]http://youtu.be/zaKmryHSKcc[/video]


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## supercavitation (Jul 27, 2014)

Just gave this to a future classmate who wants to learn how to solve a Rubik's Cube, hoping for the best! Thanks for the tutorial!


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## DeeDubb (Jul 28, 2014)

supercavitation said:


> Just gave this to a future classmate who wants to learn how to solve a Rubik's Cube, hoping for the best! Thanks for the tutorial!



Thanks! Let me know how it goes. I'm planning to revamp this whole thing after I get a powerful pc to make video editing easier


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## supercavitation (Jul 29, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Thanks! Let me know how it goes. I'm planning to revamp this whole thing after I get a powerful pc to make video editing easier



Gave the tutorial and a cube to my girlfriend as well, will keep you updated!


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## PJKCuber (Jul 29, 2014)

Thanks to you DeeDubb, I am going to join the race to sub 30 with Roux. Roux is so fun!!!!
I would have switched to it, but I want to be fast at bigger cubes also, so .... sadly I can't use Roux.


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## PJKCuber (Jul 29, 2014)

Thanks to you DeeDubb, I am going to join the race to sub 30 with Roux. Roux is so fun!!!!
I would have switched to it, but I want to be fast at bigger cubes also, so .... sadly I can't use Roux.


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## TDM (Jul 29, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> Thanks to you DeeDubb, I am going to join the race to sub 30 with Roux. Roux is so fun!!!!
> I would have switched to it, but I want to be fast at bigger cubes also, so .... sadly I can't use Roux.


Or you could just use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP for bigcubes. Many Roux users don't use Roux for bigcubes.


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## Future Cuber (Jul 29, 2014)

TDM said:


> Or you could just use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP for bigcubes. Many Roux users don't use Roux for bigcubes.



Imagine using a lot if M moves on a 7x7
........


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## PJKCuber (Jul 29, 2014)

TDM said:


> Or you could just use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP for bigcubes. Many Roux users don't use Roux for bigcubes.


I know, but it's better to stick to CFOP because I want to be good at all cubic puzzles and BLD. Besides, I think I'll get worse at Yau if I use Roux. Faz and Alex Lau are about the same speed at 3x3, but there's a huge speed difference on big cubes.


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## TDM (Jul 29, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> I know, but it's better to stick to CFOP because I want to be good at all cubic puzzles and BLD. Besides, I think I'll get worse at Yau if I use Roux. Faz and Alex Lau are about the same speed at 3x3, but there's a huge speed difference on big cubes.


Using Roux won't make you any worse at BLD; if you use M2, maybe the practise using the M slice will actually help.
You won't get worse at bigcubes or 3x3 if you practise both. I remember seeing Alex Lau saying he doesn't like bigcubes somewhere; that difference in times isn't caused by the 3x3 stage. He just doesn't practise the reduction part of bigcubes much.


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## FailCuber (Jul 29, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> I know, but it's better to stick to CFOP because I want to be good at all cubic puzzles and BLD. Besides, I think I'll get worse at Yau if I use Roux. Faz and Alex Lau are about the same speed at 3x3, but there's a huge speed difference on big cubes.



No, only a few people like Feliks are good at most of the events. I think Alex practices 3x3 more then any other events.

Also, stop double posting. You always double post.


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## PJKCuber (Jul 29, 2014)

FailCuber said:


> No, only a few people like Feliks are good at most of the events. I think Alex practices 3x3 more then any other events.
> 
> Also, stop double posting. You always double post.



Yes, my internet connection is slow so I don't know If I have posted twice. I am pretty sure Faz does 3x3 most too.


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## PJKCuber (Jul 29, 2014)

FailCuber said:


> No, only a few people like Feliks are good at most of the events. I think Alex practices 3x3 more then any other events.
> 
> Also, stop double posting. You always double post.



Yes, my internet connection is slow so I don't know If I have posted twice. I am pretty sure Feliks does 3x3 most too. No not only Faz. Kevin Hays is sub 10 on 3x3 and great at big cubes. He's pretty good too.


As for TDM : Many Roux Users told me to just stick with CFOP so that I'd be better at 4x4 and big cubes.


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## guysensei1 (Jul 29, 2014)

At the very least delete the double posts.


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## TDM (Jul 29, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> Yes, my internet connection is slow so I don't know If I have posted twice. I am pretty sure Feliks does 3x3 most too. No not only Faz. Kevin Hays is sub 10 on 3x3 and great at big cubes. He's pretty good too.


Yes, but they probably actually practise bigcubes. That's nothing to do with the method they use for 3x3 or not.


> As for TDM : Many Roux Users told me to just stick with CFOP so that I'd be better at 4x4 and big cubes.


Really, who? If I were you, I would use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP/Petrus for bigcubes.
But the 3x3 stage is not as near as an important part of bigcube solving as the reduction part, especially as you get to bigger and bigger cubes. Even if you only use CFOP for bigcubes (which is what I'm recommending) and you can't look ahead at all, that will barely affect your times. Getting to the 3x3 stage is ~2/3 of a 4x4 solve, ~5/6 of a 5x5 solve and is even more important for 6x6. If you use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP for bigcubes, you will be almost exactly the same speed at bigcubes as if you used CFOP for 3x3.


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## PJKCuber (Jul 29, 2014)

TDM said:


> Yes, but they probably actually practise bigcubes. That's nothing to do with the method they use for 3x3 or not.
> 
> Really, who? If I were you, I would use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP/Petrus for bigcubes.
> But the 3x3 stage is not as near as an important part of bigcube solving as the reduction part, especially as you get to bigger and bigger cubes. Even if you only use CFOP for bigcubes (which is what I'm recommending) and you can't look ahead at all, that will barely affect your times. Getting to the 3x3 stage is ~2/3 of a 4x4 solve, ~5/6 of a 5x5 solve and is even more important for 6x6. If you use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP for bigcubes, you will be almost exactly the same speed at bigcubes as if you used CFOP for 3x3.


I'll try it.


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## PJKCuber (Jul 29, 2014)

TDM said:


> Yes, but they probably actually practise bigcubes. That's nothing to do with the method they use for 3x3 or not.
> 
> Really, who? If I were you, I would use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP/Petrus for bigcubes.
> But the 3x3 stage is not as near as an important part of bigcube solving as the reduction part, especially as you get to bigger and bigger cubes. Even if you only use CFOP for bigcubes (which is what I'm recommending) and you can't look ahead at all, that will barely affect your times. Getting to the 3x3 stage is ~2/3 of a 4x4 solve, ~5/6 of a 5x5 solve and is even more important for 6x6. If you use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP for bigcubes, you will be almost exactly the same speed at bigcubes as if you used CFOP for 3x3.


I'll try it.


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## Future Cuber (Jul 29, 2014)

TDM said:


> Yes, but they probably actually practise bigcubes. That's nothing to do with the method they use for 3x3 or not.
> 
> Really, who? If I were you, I would use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP/Petrus for bigcubes.
> But the 3x3 stage is not as near as an important part of bigcube solving as the reduction part, especially as you get to bigger and bigger cubes. Even if you only use CFOP for bigcubes (which is what I'm recommending) and you can't look ahead at all, that will barely affect your times. Getting to the 3x3 stage is ~2/3 of a 4x4 solve, ~5/6 of a 5x5 solve and is even more important for 6x6. If you use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP for bigcubes, you will be almost exactly the same speed at bigcubes as if you used CFOP for 3x3.


CFOP is better cos u wont use M moves as much as you would using Roux.....
and it would be annoying doing M moves on 5x5 and above


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## TDM (Jul 29, 2014)

Future Cuber said:


> CFOP is better cos u wont use M moves as much as you would using Roux.....
> and it would be annoying doing M moves on 5x5 and above


Re-read my post; I'm saying it's fine to use Roux on 3x3 and CFOP on bigcubes. You don't have to use the same method for everything!


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## thatboyahcubah (Jul 29, 2014)

I think you got corner orientation and permutation mixed up


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## DeeDubb (Aug 7, 2014)

thatboyahcubah said:


> I think you got corner orientation and permutation mixed up



Me? Where did I get it mixed up? You mean how I arranged it? I did that intentionally so they can use a Niklas for corner perm rather than a J-Perm or something.



DeeDubb said:


> As for my videos, I just added a new Roux tip. Check it out, and let me know what you think!
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Here's a scramble where this works perfectly:

B' R2 D2 B2 D2 F2 L2 F U2 L2 U2 R' B' F2 U' L' B F' D R' U


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## Qber (Oct 1, 2014)

DeeDub, thank you so much for posting this tutorial! I used to use Fridrich, and when i hit an average of 40 I decided it was getting boring, so I used this tutorial for roux to get from 1 minute 30 seconds to 33 second average, in a couple of weeks! Thank you so much... and btw, Let's start a new Hashtag: #RouxOverCFOP lol


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## polikarpos (Oct 3, 2014)

Thanks for a great tutorial! It almost made me stop hating M slices. )


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## DeeDubb (Nov 11, 2014)

Qber said:


> DeeDub, thank you so much for posting this tutorial! I used to use Fridrich, and when i hit an average of 40 I decided it was getting boring, so I used this tutorial for roux to get from 1 minute 30 seconds to 33 second average, in a couple of weeks! Thank you so much... and btw, Let's start a new Hashtag: #RouxOverCFOP lol



Thank you so much for you kind words! I'm glad to hear you are progressing well. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.



polikarpos said:


> Thanks for a great tutorial! It *almost* made me stop hating M slices. )




Close, but no cigar, eh?



Also, I posted a new walkthrough solves video today. I'm trying to get back into the flow of things.


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## MarcelP (Nov 11, 2014)

Your bump has made me go watch the first few video's! Nice.. I think I might go do Roux for a while  What is your speed these days?


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## NotFastAtAll (Nov 12, 2014)

TDM said:


> Yes, but they probably actually practise bigcubes. That's nothing to do with the method they use for 3x3 or not.
> 
> Really, who? If I were you, I would use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP/Petrus for bigcubes.
> But the 3x3 stage is not as near as an important part of bigcube solving as the reduction part, especially as you get to bigger and bigger cubes. Even if you only use CFOP for bigcubes (which is what I'm recommending) and you can't look ahead at all, that will barely affect your times. Getting to the 3x3 stage is ~2/3 of a 4x4 solve, ~5/6 of a 5x5 solve and is even more important for 6x6. If you use Roux for 3x3 and CFOP for bigcubes, you will be almost exactly the same speed at bigcubes as if you used CFOP for 3x3.


Would I be correct in assuming that 3x3 stage will matter once you get world class. I mean, 3-5 seconds could mean the difference between WR or not.


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## TDM (Nov 12, 2014)

NotFastAtAll said:


> Would I be correct in assuming that 3x3 stage will matter once you get world class. I mean, 3-5 seconds could mean the difference between WR or not.


When you're world class at 4x4, you've probably practised the 3x3 stage enough for it not to slow you down. I was talking about for if you don't practise bigcubes that much, but when you're world class you aren't going to have the problem with lookahead that you get by using a different method for bigcubes.

(at least I think that's what I meant; I wrote that a while ago )


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## DeeDubb (Nov 12, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> Your bump has made me go watch the first few video's! Nice.. I think I might go do Roux for a while  What is your speed these days?



Not great unfortunately. I"m out of practice. I've slipped by about a second. Hanging around at about 22.5-23 seconds


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## Rushcubed (Dec 8, 2014)

I've switched to Roux after watching this. It'll take a while to get the hang of, but it's way more fun than COFP (IMO). Great job


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## DeeDubb (Dec 16, 2014)

Rushcubed said:


> I've switched to Roux after watching this. It'll take a while to get the hang of, but it's way more fun than COFP (IMO). Great job



Best of luck to you  Make sure to check out more advance tutorials, such as Waffo's, Donovan's, and 5BLD's


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## lllllllllllllll (Dec 17, 2014)

Hey I just started learning to cube a week ago with beginner's method however I would like to convert to Roux but I couldn't understand how to properly construct a left block. Any clearer tips for the beginner?


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## GuRoux (Dec 17, 2014)

lllllllllllllll said:


> Hey I just started learning to cube a week ago with beginner's method however I would like to convert to Roux but I couldn't understand how to properly construct a left block. Any clearer tips for the beginner?



there's no proper way to do it. do what ever works for you. if you haven't already, watch deedub's videos in the beginning of this thread.


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## lllllllllllllll (Dec 17, 2014)

Finally got my first Roux solve after watching your videos, will appreciate it if slow down your pace even more as complete beginners like me had to playback several times to actually see what you did. Still, this is the best Roux tutorial series I have watched.


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## DeeDubb (Dec 17, 2014)

lllllllllllllll said:


> Finally got my first Roux solve after watching your videos, will appreciate it if slow down your pace even more as complete beginners like me had to playback several times to actually see what you did. Still, this is the best Roux tutorial series I have watched.



Congrats! I think I went about as slow as I could without making it impossible to watch for most people. I'm glad you were able to pick it up after replaying a few times. Once you get comfortable solving with Roux, I suggest you look at more advanced methods like 5BLD, Waffo, and Donovan's. My guide is just a gateway to get you into Roux and solving comfortably


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## lllllllllllllll (Dec 28, 2014)

Reporting back after a week of practice and timed myself using cubemania for the first time, getting an ao5 of 1m40s. What timing should I start learning advanced methods?
I have a problem spending more time to find the specific cubes for block building rather than building the block. Do you have any tips and tricks for finding the cube that I need?


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## JediJupiter (Jan 2, 2015)

lllllllllllllll said:


> Reporting back after a week of practice and timed myself using cubemania for the first time, getting an ao5 of 1m40s. What timing should I start learning advanced methods?
> I have a problem spending more time to find the specific cubes for block building rather than building the block. Do you have any tips and tricks for finding the cube that I need?


This is an advanced method [emoji6] 
You can start learning new techniques whenever you like, when you feel you've stopped improving, when you're bored... 
For your blocks, do you use the same colours every time or not? Finding pieces should come with practise though, doing more and more solves should make it easier. If you know what moves you're gonna do to move some pieces into place, you could try looking for your next pieces as you're still doing the previous moves. It's a very good habit to get into.


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## DeeDubb (Jan 2, 2015)

lllllllllllllll said:


> Reporting back after a week of practice and timed myself using cubemania for the first time, getting an ao5 of 1m40s. What timing should I start learning advanced methods?
> I have a problem spending more time to find the specific cubes for block building rather than building the block. Do you have any tips and tricks for finding the cube that I need?



Oh hey, sorry, I just saw this.

You should keep doing this until you are down to about a minute, I would say. At about a minute, I'd say you have enough understanding to start adding new complex block building to your solve.

As for finding the piece you need. Use deduction. Search in a similar pattern each time. Start with the four edges on the left, then the two on top, then the four on the right, if they aren't there, they must be in one of the two edges on left on the bottom. Think of your eyes as scanners, searching each piece one by one. This prevents you from looking at the same pieces several times while ignoring others (and wasting valuable time!)


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## DeeDubb (Jan 4, 2015)

*Walkthrough Solves 5*





more walkthrough solves...


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## MarcelP (Jan 4, 2015)

Great stuff Dan.. What I learned from the first solve was the last few moves to put in the bar with bottom color first... Never thought of that. I really enjoy these video's.


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## oneshot (Mar 22, 2015)

Thanks for doing this! I'm not stupid at all, but I just wasn't grasping CFOP (two little kids can be distracting) but this method is very intuitive. The thing I love is how you put what moves are/are not allowed. I hadn't seen that in a tutorial before, helped me a lot. Thanks again.


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## DeeDubb (Mar 23, 2015)

oneshot said:


> Thanks for doing this! I'm not stupid at all, but I just wasn't grasping CFOP (two little kids can be distracting) but this method is very intuitive. The thing I love is how you put what moves are/are not allowed. I hadn't seen that in a tutorial before, helped me a lot. Thanks again.



I'm glad it helped you  If you would like to get faster, switch to a different CMLL method ASAP.


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## michaelcmelton (Mar 27, 2015)

DeeDubb! Great Tutorial. I'm a CFOP solver sitting at a sub-40 average, and I was interested in Roux. I went ahead and learned 2-Look CMLL in a night, due to already knowing full PLL, but the only issue is my lookahead for edges and corners when building blocks. I'm struggling with it. Is it alot like CFOP lookahead?


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## King Mike (Mar 27, 2015)

michaelcmelton said:


> DeeDubb! Great Tutorial. I'm a CFOP solver sitting at a sub-40 average, and I was interested in Roux. I went ahead and learned 2-Look CMLL in a night, due to already knowing full PLL, but the only issue is my lookahead for edges and corners when building blocks. I'm struggling with it. Is it alot like CFOP lookahead?



I do my Roux f2l like CFOP, except I look for edges in the bottom layer and match them. I also use M slice moves to split apart bad pairs to make an easier F2L case.


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## GuRoux (Mar 27, 2015)

King Mike said:


> I do my Roux f2l like CFOP, except I look for edges in the bottom layer and match them. I also use M slice moves to split apart bad pairs to make an easier F2L case.



well, you shouldn't be doing any cube rotations, if you are, you're doing it wrongly.


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## theROUXbiksCube (Mar 28, 2015)

michaelcmelton said:


> DeeDubb! Great Tutorial. I'm a CFOP solver sitting at a sub-40 average, and I was interested in Roux. I went ahead and learned 2-Look CMLL in a night, due to already knowing full PLL, but the only issue is my lookahead for edges and corners when building blocks. I'm struggling with it. Is it alot like CFOP lookahead?



its harder, but easier to get used to it. its different because you have to look for edges in m slice as well.


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## Sergeant Baboon (Mar 28, 2015)

Hey just wanted to pop in and say that these videos own. I bought my first cube about 2 months ago, quickly gave up on the beginner's method and found these videos instead. Roux made perfect sense to me and I think the version that you teach is much, much better than the beginner's method. When my dad wanted to learn how to solve a Rubik's cube again (he used to solve them back when they were big in the 80s) I just linked him to these and he picked it up in a couple days.

I've been practicing regularly for the past 2 months or so--now that I have an Aolong I'm down around 45 seconds on average. Gotta keep working on that block building...

Thanks again for the awesome tutorial.


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## King Mike (Mar 28, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> well, you shouldn't be doing any cube rotations, if you are, you're doing it wrongly.



Thanks, I never knew....guess I gotta re learn that!


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## DeeDubb (Mar 28, 2015)

michaelcmelton said:


> DeeDubb! Great Tutorial. I'm a CFOP solver sitting at a sub-40 average, and I was interested in Roux. I went ahead and learned 2-Look CMLL in a night, due to already knowing full PLL, but the only issue is my lookahead for edges and corners when building blocks. I'm struggling with it. Is it alot like CFOP lookahead?



Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm glad my videos are helping people.

Umm... I need to make a video on Roux "look ahead". Though, my lookahead isn't that great, but it'll probably be helpful. Lookahead should really only apply to the second block, as you should be able to get most of the first block planned out during inspection (at the very least the 2x2).



King Mike said:


> I do my Roux f2l like CFOP, except I look for edges in the bottom layer and match them. I also use M slice moves to split apart bad pairs to make an easier F2L case.



Half of Roux pairs (on the second block specifically) should look like CFOP pairs. The other half should not. Any time you need to do a y rotation, you should try to find a way to use a Rw to insert the pair instead.



Sergeant Baboon said:


> Hey just wanted to pop in and say that these videos own. I bought my first cube about 2 months ago, quickly gave up on the beginner's method and found these videos instead. Roux made perfect sense to me and I think the version that you teach is much, much better than the beginner's method. When my dad wanted to learn how to solve a Rubik's cube again (he used to solve them back when they were big in the 80s) I just linked him to these and he picked it up in a couple days.
> 
> I've been practicing regularly for the past 2 months or so--now that I have an Aolong I'm down around 45 seconds on average. Gotta keep working on that block building...
> 
> Thanks again for the awesome tutorial.



Great job, and thank you so much for the kind words. It feels really good to help people. I cannot stress enough that my method is simply to get your foot in the door. Look at Waffo's and Donovan's videos as soon as you get a chance. They will help you go from solving to speed sovling. However, at 45 seconds, it seems that you are doing some amount of speed solving, which is great!


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## oneshot (Mar 28, 2015)

So I'm having trouble. If when I get to the last step, there are two similar and one odd along the top and bottom I can finish it. Even the dots case. But now I've got a case where all four edges on the m slice need to be moved. 

Can you explain how to proceed?


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## GuRoux (Mar 28, 2015)

oneshot said:


> So I'm having trouble. If when I get to the last step, there are two similar and one odd along the top and bottom I can finish it. Even the dots case. But now I've got a case where all four edges on the m slice need to be moved.
> 
> Can you explain how to proceed?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M23uuqkiVUA&index=8&list=PLajHGvYF36nSsL1r_DqrpDY07TnJwqEpn


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## oneshot (Mar 28, 2015)

Thank you. That's the video I was using. However it doesn't cover (or if it does I'm not seeing it) on what to do if there isn't the 2 and 1 case. 
With blue on the left and green on the right, I need the top front edge to switch with the bottom front. And same with the rear top and bottom. If that makes sense


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## GuRoux (Mar 28, 2015)

oneshot said:


> Thank you. That's the video I was using. However it doesn't cover (or if it does I'm not seeing it) on what to do if there isn't the 2 and 1 case.
> With blue on the left and green on the right, I need the top front edge to switch with the bottom front. And same with the rear top and bottom. If that makes sense



M' U2 M2 U2?


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## oneshot (Mar 28, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> M' U2 M2 U2?


Lol. I hate you. I've been trying for like an hour...


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## oneshot (Mar 28, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> M' U2 M2 U2?


on my other cube I need to move top front to the bottom back, the bottom back needs to go to the top back, and the top back needs to come to the top front


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## GuRoux (Mar 28, 2015)

oneshot said:


> on my other cube I need to move top front to the bottom back, the bottom back needs to go to the top back, and the top back needs to come to the top front



U2 M U2 M'

make sure you know the difference between M and M'.


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## PenguinsDontFly (Mar 28, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> U2 M U2 M'
> 
> make sure you know the difference between M and M'.



Ur understanding of the descriptions is ridiculous...


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## DeeDubb (Mar 29, 2015)

King Mike said:


> Thanks, I never knew....guess I gotta re learn that!








Here's a good video to help you with avoiding the rotations.


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## michaelcmelton (Mar 29, 2015)

DeeDubb said:


> Umm... I need to make a video on Roux "look ahead". Though, my lookahead isn't that great, but it'll probably be helpful. Lookahead should really only apply to the second block, as you should be able to get most of the first block planned out during inspection (at the very least the 2x2).



Whenever you get that Roux lookahead video up, I would be glad to view it.


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## philipneri (Apr 6, 2015)

DeeDubb, thank you for these videos. I have been fiddling with the Rubik's Cube for about a month and a half. I learned the Roux method from your tutorial videos five days ago; I thought they were excellent. I proceeded to immediately start watching your Walkthrough Solves. I found them frustrating because I had no idea what was going on. Fast forward to today, after just five days on practicing on my own, I gave your Walkthrough Solve videos another shot and I found them to be immensely helpful/insightful. So good job on those as well.

Thank you thank you thank you


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## DeeDubb (Apr 21, 2015)

philipneri said:


> DeeDubb, thank you for these videos. I have been fiddling with the Rubik's Cube for about a month and a half. I learned the Roux method from your tutorial videos five days ago; I thought they were excellent. I proceeded to immediately start watching your Walkthrough Solves. I found them frustrating because I had no idea what was going on. Fast forward to today, after just five days on practicing on my own, I gave your Walkthrough Solve videos another shot and I found them to be immensely helpful/insightful. So good job on those as well.
> 
> Thank you thank you thank you



Wow, this feels great to hear. You're so welcome.

Your experience with my walkthrough solve videos is exactly the experience i had watching other walkthrough solve videos. When I was first starting, they were WAY over my head, but pretty soon, more and more of it started to make sense.

As much as I try, it's impossible to just transfer knowledge to people. There's some level of self discovery needed to open some of the doors. I'm glad you took time and began to understand the cube, and I'm really glad you are able to absorb my walkthrough solves.

Also, I hope you have upgraded to a better 2 Look CMLL if you are speed solving. The algs are tougher, but WAY easier to recognize and execute.

Keep me updated on your progress, best of luck, and let me know if there's anything I can do to help.


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## philipneri (Apr 21, 2015)

DeeDubb said:


> Also, I hope you have upgraded to a better 2 Look CMLL if you are speed solving. The algs are tougher, but WAY easier to recognize and execute.
> 
> Keep me updated on your progress, best of luck, and let me know if there's anything I can do to help.



Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have upgraded to the 2 Look CMLL from LubixCube.com. I am making slow and steady progress. I have been cubing for 2 months and 4 days. I switched to Roux 20 days ago. Before Roux, I was averaging 110 seconds with CFOP. Now I average 70 seconds with Roux. My first block takes about 17 seconds/12 moves. My second block takes about 23 seconds/15 moves. U Corners takes 10 seconds. L6E takes 20 seconds. Not particularly impressive ... But I am content/pleased with my progress.

Your walkthrough solves have really helped me with my L6E. Tracking the UL/UR edges. Making sure I do my M moves in the proper direction for the yellow bar/white bar to end on the top so that I don't have to do an extra M2 at the end. They have also helped me a bit with getting more efficient with my pair insertions on the first two blocks.

So again ... thank you.


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## GuRoux (Apr 21, 2015)

philipneri said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have upgraded to the 2 Look CMLL from LubixCube.com. I am making slow and steady progress. I have been cubing for 2 months and 4 days. I switched to Roux 20 days ago. Before Roux, I was averaging 110 seconds with CFOP. Now I average 70 seconds with Roux. My first block takes about 17 seconds/12 moves. My second block takes about 23 seconds/15 moves. U Corners takes 10 seconds. L6E takes 20 seconds. Not particularly impressive ... But I am content pleased my progress.
> 
> Your walkthrough solves have really helped me with my L6E. Tracking the UL/UR edges. Making sure I do my M moves in the proper direction for the yellow bar/white bar end on the top so that I don't have to do an extra M2 at the end. They have also helped me a bit with getting more efficient with my pair insertions on the first two blocks.
> 
> So again ... thank you.



nice progression, you're right on track. don't forget that doing slow solves is beneficial to your efficiency.


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## philipneri (Apr 21, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> nice progression, you're right on track. don't forget that doing slow solves is beneficial to your efficiency.



Thank you for the encouragement. I agree that slow solves are more beneficial. The majority of my solves are slow. I am actually not too interested in getting fast/being a real speedsolver.

I am a middle school science teacher. My students got me into cubing. Most of my students are way faster than I will ever be. I don't really have the time/dedication/motivation to get sub-30 or anything. I just enjoy solving the cube in between classes or as a break from grading.


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## DeeDubb (Apr 21, 2015)

philipneri said:


> Thank you for the encouragement. I agree that slow solves are more beneficial. The majority of my solves are slow. I am actually not too interested in getting fast/being a real speedsolver.
> 
> I am a middle school science teacher. My students got me into cubing. Most of my students are way faster than I will ever be. I don't really have the time/dedication/motivation to get sub-30 or anything. I just enjoy solving the cube in between classes or as a break from grading.



That's cool. I'm a teacher also. I teach English in Korea. I have enough spare time that I can spend a lot of time getting faster, fortunately. I also get some chances to teach my students. It's nice to have more adult cubers around the forums as well. Best of luck. Maybe you'll catch the bug and push to sub 30.


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## philipneri (Apr 22, 2015)

DeeDubb said:


> That's cool. I'm a teacher also. I teach English in Korea. I have enough spare time that I can spend a lot of time getting faster, fortunately. I also get some chances to teach my students. It's nice to have more adult cubers around the forums as well. Best of luck. Maybe you'll catch the bug and push to sub 30.



I am not surprised that you are a teacher. Your tutorial shows that you have excellent didactic/pedagogical skills. Yeah, you never know ... I might catch the bug over summer break. I will have a lot of free time then.

Another fun update on my progress. I just got a new cube today (MoYo AoLong v2). I have done about 50 solves on it today. Only 20 of them were timed, but I think this new cube has shaved 5-10 seconds off my time. I am getting dangerously close to averaging 60 seconds. It is a small sample size. Maybe, I will be back to averaging 70 seconds tomorrow.


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## philipneri (Apr 23, 2015)

DeeDubb, on your Walkthrough Solves #2 video during your third solve (approximately at the 7:07 mark), you do an algorithm for orienting 2-edges on the U layer. Is it (R U R' U') M' U R U' r'?


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## obelisk477 (Apr 23, 2015)

philipneri said:


> DeeDubb, on your Walkthrough Solves #2 video during your third solve (approximately at the 7:07 mark), you do an algorithm for orienting 2-edges on the U layer. Is it (R U R' U') M' U R U' r'?



That is correct


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## DeeDubb (Apr 23, 2015)

philipneri said:


> DeeDubb, on your Walkthrough Solves #2 video during your third solve (approximately at the 7:07 mark), you do an algorithm for orienting 2-edges on the U layer. Is it (R U R' U') M' U R U' r'?



Yes, it's an OLL algorithm. I learned that from Waffo's page. I'm not sure that it's faster than doing the standard version, but I do it anyway. I use algs for 2 Flip, Six Flip, and Dots case (4 opposite centers).


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## TheOneOnTheLeft (Apr 23, 2015)

DeeDubb said:


> Yes, it's an OLL algorithm. I learned that from Waffo's page. I'm not sure that it's faster than doing the standard version, but I do it anyway. I use algs for 2 Flip, Six Flip, and Dots case (4 opposite centers).


I recommend you learn to do it with MU as your go-to, just because the capacity to influence UL/UR is so much greater. That alg is a good option to have, but unless you know it'll give you favourable positions for UL/UR then your LSE overall will probably be quicker using the MU version. Good LSE has a lot to do with blending the steps together, and using a one-case, one-alg approach can really hold you back from taking advantage of that.


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## CubeCow (Apr 28, 2015)

Wish I could get this written.


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## theROUXbiksCube (Apr 28, 2015)

http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Intro.html


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## TDM (Apr 28, 2015)

theROUXbiksCube said:


> http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Intro.html


That doesn't teach it as a beginner's method.


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## Ross The Boss (Apr 28, 2015)

TDM said:


> That doesn't teach it as a beginner's method.



id say it provides enough information to teach somebody who has never solved before. they would just need to use their head-brain-thing a little bit.

EDIT: no, never mind. i forgot that cube notation is not common knowledge... but apart from that, the animations and text explanations are pretty easy.


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## TDM (Apr 28, 2015)

Ross The Boss said:


> id say it provides enough information to teach somebody who has never solved before. they would just need to use their head-brain-thing a little bit.
> 
> EDIT: no, never mind. i forgot that cube notation is not common knowledge... but apart from that, the *animations and text explanations are pretty easy*.


I still think that a beginner would find it hard. I don't think the person asking would find it too hard to understand, but for someone with no cubing experience at all I definitely don't think it's a good place to start. The first step doesn't have much information on blockbuilding, and the second step has lists of algs which I would find a bit intimidating if I was just learning to (or had just solved) a cube. Step 3 doesn't have an easy method for a beginner. The LSE part doesn't look too bad though.


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## OrigamiCuber1 (Apr 28, 2015)

I haven't seen this yet but I am aware that there is a decent tutorial on the lubix website


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## Chree (Apr 28, 2015)

DeeDubb said:


> Yes, it's an OLL algorithm. I learned that from Waffo's page. I'm not sure that it's faster than doing the standard version, but I do it anyway. I use algs for 2 Flip, Six Flip, and Dots case (4 opposite centers).



I just started playing around with Roux and I find your material really helpful. So thanks!

anyway... for that case, I've been doing M U' M' U M U' M'. For the inverse case of that OLL I've been using M U' M' U'2 M U' M'... which was actually the first alg I learned for that OLL case anyway.

What do you use for the 6 flip?


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## TDM (Apr 28, 2015)

Chree said:


> For the inverse case of that OLL I've been using M U' M' U2' M U' M'


You can replace the Ms with M's if you want a slightly better alg.


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## Chree (Apr 28, 2015)

TDM said:


> You can replace the Ms with M's if you want a slightly better alg.



Holy crap... roux is awesome.


Edit: and I saw someone posted some really nice 6 flip algs on the Request an Alg thread.


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## h2f (Apr 28, 2015)

Chree said:


> What do you use for the 6 flip?



There's a movie on DeeDubb's chanel:


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## rowan (Apr 28, 2015)

TDM said:


> I still think that a beginner would find it hard. I don't think the person asking would find it too hard to understand, but for someone with no cubing experience at all I definitely don't think it's a good place to start. The first step doesn't have much information on blockbuilding, and the second step has lists of algs which I would find a bit intimidating if I was just learning to (or had just solved) a cube. Step 3 doesn't have an easy method for a beginner. The LSE part doesn't look too bad though.



I learned Roux from this with no prior cube knowledge (other than reading). I think it's a good guide, when something confused me I just searched on Speedsolving. I learned notation from the wiki. I also just solved corners with Sune and Niklas. I did disregard the color neutrality approach based on Thom's write up. Also helpful was looking at reconstructions reconstructions.

There may not be an all encompassing text resource for Roux as a beginner's method, but I think gathering information from a variety of sources is more beneficial anyway. Maybe a page documenting various links might be useful because I can see how watching 75 minutes worth of videos might not work for some. Regardless, text is more concise.


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## biscuit (Apr 28, 2015)

I learned roux with yyour videos. What is the most important thing to learn next? CMLL?


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## theROUXbiksCube (Apr 28, 2015)

biscuit said:


> I learned roux with yyour videos. What is the most important thing to learn next? CMLL?



Proper two look CMLL imo if you want to start speedsolving it


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## biscuit (Apr 28, 2015)

theROUXbiksCube said:


> Proper two look CMLL imo if you want to start speedsolving it



by that what do you mean? Do you mean learning optimal algs for two look? At that point why not just start learning full CMLL?


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## theROUXbiksCube (Apr 28, 2015)

biscuit said:


> by that what do you mean? Do you mean learning optimal algs for two look? At that point why not just start learning full CMLL?



the algs he teaches here for corners aren't proper 2look CMLL, look it up on Lubix Cube or Waffo's site


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## biscuit (Apr 28, 2015)

I am not using he's algs I'm using the OLL and PLL algs I use for CFOP I understand that the are not optimal. At this point why not just start learning full CMLL? Is there a reason other than timer?


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## Chree (Apr 28, 2015)

h2f said:


> There's a movie on DeeDubb's chanel:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaKmryHSKcc&list=PLajHGvYF36nQ6VlcMyobP3mnK1GNv-gex&index=2



Nice.. that was really helpful.


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## TDM (Apr 28, 2015)

biscuit said:


> I am not using he's algs I'm using the OLL and PLL algs I use for CFOP I understand that the are not optimal. At this point why not just start learning full CMLL? Is there a reason other than timer?


If you're already using 2-look CMLL then yes, start learning CMLL.


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## GuRoux (Apr 28, 2015)

biscuit said:


> I am not using he's algs I'm using the OLL and PLL algs I use for CFOP I understand that the are not optimal. At this point why not just start learning full CMLL? Is there a reason other than timer?



if you are serious about learning roux, then start learning cmll. usually when people start, their lse efficiency is pretty bad, so that might be another place to look at. try to usually have 18 moves or less for lse, and you should be good.


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## King Mike (May 1, 2015)

Hey DeeDubb!

Great tutorial! Just one question....
Can't you just sledgehammer pairs that have white facing up, instead of avoiding them?


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## cuber8208 (May 2, 2015)

King Mike said:


> Can't you just sledgehammer pairs that have white facing up, instead of avoiding them?



Because then you'd be breaking your left block (even though it would be temporary) with the F moves. r U r' or r U R' would be better as well as more efficient and allows you to maintain the death-grip on the left block


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## philipneri (Jun 1, 2015)

DeeDubb said:


> Keep me updated on your progress and best of luck.



DeeDubb, I am not so sure how serious you were about keeping you updated on my progress. Nonetheless, here is my 2 month report.

I learned Roux on April 1 using your videos. At that time I was a 2 minute solver. Now on June 1, I am 45 second solver. My step-by-step time breakdown is 10/15/8/12. During inspection, I can plan all of the 1x2x2 square and predict the location of the remain edge and corner.

My personal best solve time is 29 seconds (achieved three days ago). My personal best Ao5 is 37 seconds (achieved about a week ago). I "know" 21 out of the 42 CMLL algorithms. I use know in quotation marks because I still have to use a cheat sheet sometimes.

By July 1, I hope to have "know" all 42 CMLL algorithms and be a 40 second solver. By the end of the summer, I hope to really know all 42 algorithms without a cheat sheet and be a 35 second solver.

Thanks for inspiring me to be a Roux solver. I have enjoyed it so much more than all the other methods (CFOP, Petrus, ZZ, LBL, EF, CF, 8355). Actually, I like Petrus a lot too; I am just not particularly fast at it.


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## adimare (Jun 6, 2015)

Hello!

My brother-in-law wants to learn how to solve the cube and I was thinking about teaching him your version of Roux instead of an LBL approach. I have a couple of concerns tho, the main one being the lack of a fixed point of reference during the first stages of the solve. Let's say he starts with yellow on top and blue on left as his orientation, while solving the first 2x2x1 he buffers the blue-red edge piece on DF using M and pairs it up with its corresponding corner using M2 (so the yellow center will end up in the B face, red on top, etc), won't he have trouble figuring out that the next edge piece he needs to solve is blue-orange? This could be solved by adding the extra step of adjusting the M layer after every pair insertion and making sure yellow is on top, but maybe I'm overthinking it and that's an unnecessary step. Have you or anyone else taught this method to any beginners and ran into this issue? Has anyone that learned this without knowing any other method to solve the cube had trouble with this?


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## dboeren (Jul 9, 2015)

Double post


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## dboeren (Jul 9, 2015)

I'm learning Roux now using this tutorial (along with Waffo's page) and I don't think it's a concern. You just learn that red is front and orange is back. It doesn't really matter what the center pieces in the M slice are at that point in the solve, they should be considered free to rotate as you like.

Currently I'm working on 2-look CMLL from Waffo's page.


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## DeeDubb (Jul 9, 2015)

philipneri said:


> DeeDubb, I am not so sure how serious you were about keeping you updated on my progress. Nonetheless, here is my 2 month report.
> 
> I learned Roux on April 1 using your videos. At that time I was a 2 minute solver. Now on June 1, I am 45 second solver. My step-by-step time breakdown is 10/15/8/12. During inspection, I can plan all of the 1x2x2 square and predict the location of the remain edge and corner.
> 
> ...



Sorry I haven't been following this as close as I should. That's great to hear! I'm glad you are keeping up with Roux. I have been focusing on other things now, so I haven't been doing Roux solves like I should. Just keep adding the CMLL algs. There's no hurry on those. Block building and L6E make the biggest difference. Congrats on the sub 30 solve!



adimare said:


> Hello!
> 
> My brother-in-law wants to learn how to solve the cube and I was thinking about teaching him your version of Roux instead of an LBL approach. I have a couple of concerns tho, the main one being the lack of a fixed point of reference during the first stages of the solve. Let's say he starts with yellow on top and blue on left as his orientation, while solving the first 2x2x1 he buffers the blue-red edge piece on DF using M and pairs it up with its corresponding corner using M2 (so the yellow center will end up in the B face, red on top, etc), won't he have trouble figuring out that the next edge piece he needs to solve is blue-orange? This could be solved by adding the extra step of adjusting the M layer after every pair insertion and making sure yellow is on top, but maybe I'm overthinking it and that's an unnecessary step. Have you or anyone else taught this method to any beginners and ran into this issue? Has anyone that learned this without knowing any other method to solve the cube had trouble with this?



I don't think this is an issue unless you're coming from a cross first method. A new solvers won't be focused on the M Slice centers because it hasn't been "programmed" into them yet. So, as long as they memorize a fixed block. Blue on the left, white on the bottom in my videos, then they will also just memorize blue red on front and blue orange on the back. I have taught a few people Roux and haven't had any issues with this.


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## dboeren (Jul 28, 2015)

I'm solving in about 60 seconds now, though I'm still timing my blocks and "the rest" separately so there may be a little bit of extra recognition time in between. Close enough...

At this point I'm doing 2-look CMLL from Waffle's page (minus the diagonal permutation, I just do adjacent twice right now) and using M' U M' to iterate through the bad edge cases until I get to the arrow. So clearly there are improvements that can be made in the second half of the solve - most of which is memorization stuff:
Full CMLL
Learn direct solves for all the bad edge cases
Learn direct solves for each of the final edge cases

What I feel I really want to improve though is my block building which is just shamefully bad  My best ao12 right now is a hair under 30 seconds for just doing right/left blocks, but I know my move count is not very good as I'm still using Deedubb's "beginner" method of putting the edge in the front bottom loading spot. If you ever have time to make another video, I nominate a "next steps" to block building showing better techniques for this stage.

One thing in particular that I seem to have trouble with is the 2nd block bottom edge. After I build my left block, my next step is to find and place the green/white edge on the bottom right and if it ends up in a bad position it takes me like 5 moves to get it there which just seems really awkward. I've also tried using my inspection time to solve both the blue/white and green/white edge first before trying to take on the first blue pair - does that sound like a better approach? The plus is easier placement of the green/white edge since the cube is still pretty "open". The drawback is that I have to maintain that edge while doing the blue pairs and occasionally I forget to restore it after making some move and the solve goes off the rails because I probably don't notice for a while 

Anyway, just wanted to say "hi" to all the other Roux newbies out there and encourage you to keep practicing.


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## GuRoux (Jul 28, 2015)

if i were you i would first learn all the lse cases, be able to sub 25 moves on average. then work on block building, i think 35 moves is a good goal. and i wouldn't worry about cmll now since it's less interesting and makes very little difference in your speed.


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## theROUXbiksCube (Jul 28, 2015)

I would learn the Y perm though because double adjacent swap is okay but one alg is good. Learn the cycles for each EO case and stuff


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## PenguinsDontFly (Jul 28, 2015)

theROUXbiksCube said:


> I would learn the Y perm though because double adjacent swap is okay but one alg is good. Learn the cycles for each EO case and stuff



what about your glorious V perm? or ryans overpowered E perm?


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## supercavitation (Jul 28, 2015)

PenguinsDontFly said:


> what about your glorious V perm? or ryans overpowered E perm?



I still use N perms


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## dboeren (Jul 28, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> if i were you i would first learn all the lse cases, be able to sub 25 moves on average. then work on block building, i think 35 moves is a good goal. and i wouldn't worry about cmll now since it's less interesting and makes very little difference in your speed.



Thanks, it's good to know what to prioritize. I'm glad it's not CMLL too, too many algorithms tend to be boring. I will benchmark my LSE on the next few solves to get an idea of how many moves I'm using right now.




theROUXbiksCube said:


> I would learn the Y perm though because double adjacent swap is okay but one alg is good. Learn the cycles for each EO case and stuff



Yes, it's definitely on my to-do list. Noob question though, do the Y, J, E, and N perms all accomplish the same thing at this state?

I did a quick search and found this page which seems to document each algorithm (assuming these are the correct ones):
https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/PLL

Since edges are not solved yet at this step in Roux, I believe that means that it doesn't matter whether the algorithm you use alters the edges, or that a high level solver could look at the edges, decide if he liked them, and then apply an algorithm that preserves them OR another algorithm that doesn't hoping for a better configuration (or even knowing the final configuration)?

If I can choose any one of these, then I suppose it's just a matter of feel and benchmarking to see which version works best.

Edit: The diagonal permutation on Waffle's page is not one of Y/J/E/N. It is:
R' U L' U2 R U' x' U L' U2 R U' R x'

So what's up with that? It doesn't seem to be used anywhere else...


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## TDM (Jul 28, 2015)

dboeren said:


> Edit: The diagonal permutation on Waffle's page is not one of Y/J/E/N. It is:
> R' U L' U2 R U' x' U L' U2 R U' R x'
> 
> So what's up with that? It doesn't seem to be used anywhere else...


This is an N perm executed slightly differently:
(R' U L' U2 R U' L)2 = R' U L' U2 R U' L R' U L' U2 R U' L
he's done some rotations to change a few of the moves a little, but it's still very similar to the N perm.


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## DeeDubb (Jul 28, 2015)

The only compelling reason to use the Y Perm over other perms is because it will also help you if you plan on getting into blind solving (most people start with OP corners, which uses a slightly modified Y Perm) Otherwise, use any diagonal you want.


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## dboeren (Jul 28, 2015)

TDM said:


> This is an N perm executed slightly differently:
> (R' U L' U2 R U' L)2 = R' U L' U2 R U' L R' U L' U2 R U' L
> he's done some rotations to change a few of the moves a little, but it's still very similar to the N perm.



I wonder what the motivation was to add cube rotations?

Anyway, I think I will go back to the original N-perm version for now instead - thanks for pointing this out.

Definitely no plans to go blind at this point, or likely ever. If I eventually manage to get good at 3x3 I will probably try 4x4 next.


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## TDM (Jul 28, 2015)

dboeren said:


> I wonder what the motivation was to add cube rotations?


Possibly to make it easier to execute - the first one replaces two moves with zero moves, and the second one allows you to do an R move instead of an L move, and most right-handed people find R moves faster.


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## sl4ppy (Aug 28, 2015)

DeeDubb said:


> So, I'm considering where to take this series from here. The two directions I'm considering:
> 
> 1. Create follow ups for each video in the series, explaining how to transition from beginner style into actual Roux.



I guess this never happened? Really enjoyed the tutorial.. I'm 3 weeks in of never having even picked up a cube before, so just being able to solve it at all on my own is a pretty big step for me. I'm now just under a 120sec solver (lethargic, I know), but starting from scratch, the dexterity alone has been the biggest hurdle. Being 42 also makes the challenge a bit more acute. 

Take this as encouragement to get started as I'm looking forward to your transition video!


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## dboeren (Aug 28, 2015)

43 here, I know what you mean. I started with Deedubb's tutorials and have since moved on to regular Roux primarily using Waffle's page here:
http://wafflelikescubes.webs.com

Here's what you'll need to do:
1. The order of steps is slightly different: http://wafflelikescubes.webs.com/rouxmethod.htm

2. There is a small set of algorithms to learn here, and you already know Sune:
http://wafflelikescubes.webs.com/2lookcmll.htm

Basically what you're doing is replacing your Sune/Nicklas cycling algorithms with seven direct-solve algorithms and learning to recognize the seven different cases so you know which to apply.


Later on (and I'm not there yet either), you can learn better ways to fix your bad edges here:
http://wafflelikescubes.webs.com/orientation.htm

And better ways for doing the final permutation here:
http://wafflelikescubes.webs.com/rouxmethod.htm

Until you're ready, you can continue to use a cycling method at the end which works fine, it's just not the fastest.

Something else, Waffle presents two corner permutation algorithms for the top layer:
Adj Swap / J-Perm / A2 - R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 L2 x
Diag Swap/NOT N-Perm/A6 R' U L' U2 R U' x' U L' U2 R U' R x'

1. You can do the adjacent swap twice at first before you learn the diagonal swap. Everything in steps...
2. You don't have to use these algorithms, there are TONS of different ones you can choose from.

For instance, I am using these:
J-Perm (4/6): Headlights in front
(R' U L' U2 R U') R' U2 L R
N-Perm (1/6): Any orientation
(R' U L' U2 R U' L)2

This page lists like a bajillion possible algorithms you can browse through if you're interested:
https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/PLL

It's educational just to see how many options you have and consider the tradeoffs. Like, this one is 1 move shorter but maybe it has rotations which you don't like, or it uses a weird move like an E-slice that's awkward, etc...

The ones you'll want to be looking at are "Permutations of corners and edges". You're allowed to use algorithms that affect edges because you haven't solved those yet in Roux. The more things your algorithms doesn't have to preserve, the shorter they can be so this is good. For an adjacent perm, you can use anything showing an arrow between two adjacent corners. For diagonal perm, anything with a diagonal arrow between corners. I chose my two based in part on being easy to learn as they are very similar to each other. I'm sure if I eventually get really fast I'll probably revisit this page and shop for new faster ones though based on criteria I have only a poor understanding of today 

As far as practicing, what I've mainly been doing is drilling the first two blocks. I just do blocks, re-scramble without finishing the solve, and do it again. I still do the whole solve when I'm doing casual solves and not drilling though. You'll also want to practice the new algorithms over and over to learn those of course.


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## PenguinsDontFly (Aug 28, 2015)

dboeren, ur post is a little huge and would clutter stuff if I quoted. 

Most people prefer J perm (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') for adjacent swap and Y perm (F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F') for diag swap. Theyre both faster than the other Jperm you're using and the N perm.


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## muchacho (Aug 28, 2015)

dboeren said:


> For instance, I am using these:
> J-Perm (4/6): Headlights in front
> (R' U L' U2 R U') R' U2 L R
> N-Perm (1/6): Any orientation
> (R' U L' U2 R U' L)2


I'm also using that N-Perm, but I'm not sure if I like it (I think I chose it because it was short and easy to remember), I may try another... what other ones people use (apart from that Y perm of PenguinsDontFly)?

For the adjacent swap i use this one (J-permutation b):
R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L

I also started from scratch with DeeDubb videos and I'm also (a bit) old.


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## PenguinsDontFly (Aug 28, 2015)

muchacho said:


> I'm also using that N-Perm, but I'm not sure if I like it (I think I chose it because it was short and easy to remember), I may try another... what other ones people use (apart from that Y perm of PenguinsDontFly)?
> 
> For the adjacent swap i use this one (J-permutation b):
> R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L



instead of y perm, you could do an E perm. Ryan can do E perms a little faster than my Y perms, so it might be faster, but it requires a rotation.


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## dboeren (Aug 28, 2015)

Yeah, I realize it's not necessarily the fastest/best algorithm. That's part of why I specifically mentioned that ease-of-learning was a significant factor. As a noob with very limited time to practice between job and kids, even a small number of algorithms is significant work. Also, I specifically avoided any algorithms with rotations as candidates. I didn't feel comfortable with these at my level and I was concerned it might mess with my lookahead too.

Likely once I get down to 30 seconds I may want to do a reevaluation of algorithms, and I'm keeping your recommendations noted down for that time, thanks!


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## PenguinsDontFly (Aug 28, 2015)

dboeren said:


> Yeah, I realize it's not necessarily the fastest/best algorithm. That's part of why I specifically mentioned that ease-of-learning was a significant factor. As a noob with very limited time to practice between job and kids, even a small number of algorithms is significant work. Also, I specifically avoided any algorithms with rotations as candidates. I didn't feel comfortable with these at my level and I was concerned it might mess with my lookahead too.
> 
> Likely once I get down to 30 seconds I may want to do a reevaluation of algorithms, and I'm keeping your recommendations noted down for that time, thanks!



IMO, its better to learn the best algs from the start. I learned a lot of really easy algs, and replacing them with better ones took longer than it would have taken to just learn the right algs from the start. I actually have a cmll thingy in my sig if you're interested in learning full CMLL.


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## muchacho (Aug 28, 2015)

Thanks, I'll try some of those and that Y perm... and this one (that I can't remember where I found, someone knows? (*))... R' U L' U2 R U' x' U L' U2 R U' R x'

_Edited:
(*) I remembered, it was from Kirjava algs: http://helm.lu/cube/cmll/cmll.html_


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## GuRoux (Aug 28, 2015)

PenguinsDontFly said:


> dboeren, ur post is a little huge and would clutter stuff if I quoted.
> 
> Most people prefer J perm (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') for adjacent swap and Y perm (F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F') for diag swap. Theyre both faster than the other Jperm you're using and the N perm.



since when?


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## PenguinsDontFly (Aug 28, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> since when?



well what do you use?


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## dboeren (Aug 28, 2015)

PenguinsDontFly said:


> I actually have a cmll thingy in my sig if you're interested in learning full CMLL.



I appreciate it, and will check it out. It's probably more than I can bite off just now but I'll put it on the list for later.

Right now I think my priorities are:
1. Practice block building (still a weak spot I think)
2. Work on my inspection, trying to pre-solve a little further before the clock starts
3. Work on learning the "bad edges" algorithms (rather than cycling with M' U M') and "permutation of the rest"/4c algorithms
edit: I should actually say "the rest of the 4c algorithms" since I already know dots and half-dots.
4. Get better at 4x4, which right now means learning a "real" edge pairing algorithm and practicing the parity algorithms more

Once I get all that stuff in order I think I'll be ready to look more into full CMLL. Oh, and probably by that time I'll want to learn to solve a 5x5 too


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## GuRoux (Aug 28, 2015)

PenguinsDontFly said:


> well what do you use?



RUL j and n perms.


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## PenguinsDontFly (Aug 28, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> RUL j and n perms.



ewww RUL ist slo


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## theROUXbiksCube (Aug 28, 2015)

PenguinsDontFly said:


> ewww RUL ist slo



Not for Kavin, ya noob


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## GuRoux (Aug 28, 2015)

theROUXbiksCube said:


> Not for Kavin, ya noob



i mean, the n perm is slow, looking for something to replace it, there must be something better than y perm.


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## PenguinsDontFly (Aug 29, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> i mean, the n perm is slow, looking for something to replace it, there must be something better than y perm.



if you like RUD, try ryans legendary E perm. I personally cant even sub 1.3 it...


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## AlexMaass (Aug 29, 2015)

PenguinsDontFly said:


> if you like RUD, try ryans legendary E perm. I personally cant even sub 1.3 it...



I'm interested in this

also, I'm thinking about doing 2 look cmll for OH the other way around, permute and then orient, I think it would be a nice set


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## GuRoux (Aug 29, 2015)

AlexMaass said:


> I'm interested in this
> 
> also, I'm thinking about doing 2 look cmll for OH the other way around, permute and then orient, I think it would be a nice set



no, that's just going to be slower, the permutation algs are one of the worst OH algs.


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## henrysavich (Aug 29, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> no, that's just going to be slower, the permutation algs are one of the worst OH algs.



The permutation algs would be niklas and fruruf, would you describe those as slow compared to J and Y perms OH? I think it would be pretty good.


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## PenguinsDontFly (Aug 29, 2015)

henrysavich said:


> The permutation algs would be niklas and fruruf, would you describe those as slow compared to J and Y perms OH? I think it would be pretty good.



Niklas is death. 4 rotations. Its a stupid algorithm.


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## GuRoux (Aug 29, 2015)

henrysavich said:


> The permutation algs would be niklas and fruruf, would you describe those as slow compared to J and Y perms OH? I think it would be pretty good.



oh, like that, hmm, maybe that won't be too bad but recognition and number of moves will worse than regular cmll.


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## TDM (Aug 29, 2015)

I was talking to Alex (Maass, not Lau) about this before and I think it could be good. CO would all be 2-gen, and CP would be much shorter.

CO will be more moves _sometimes_, but I think it could be worth it, since the OH CO algs I use for U/S/A/P/H are 2-gen anyway. It would just be T/L that were different.


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## oneshot (Feb 12, 2016)

I'm about to lose my mind. I have it all solved except the last two edges are flipped. They're in the right spot just flipped. How do I fix that?


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## PenguinsDontFly (Feb 12, 2016)

oneshot said:


> I'm about to lose my mind. I have it all solved except the last two edges are flipped. They're in the right spot just flipped. How do I fix that?



M' U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' M'


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## oneshot (Feb 12, 2016)

Thank you! Now my head doesn't have to explode!


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## oneshot (Feb 14, 2016)

More questions... From the videos from the beginning of the thread, at the last step, it seems like every case is where there are two yellow and one white on top and bottom. But most of the time, I don't get that. I think I'm missing something. I almost always get something like the pictures, and I just randomly do M, M', and U2 moves until something works. One picture is of the top, and the other is the bottom. 

Any insights?

And, could someone point me in the direction of learning CMLL for the roux method? Thanks!


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## PenguinsDontFly (Feb 14, 2016)

oneshot said:


> More questions... From the videos from the beginning of the thread, at the last step, it seems like every case is where there are two yellow and one white on top and bottom. But most of the time, I don't get that. I think I'm missing something. I almost always get something like the pictures, and I just randomly do M, M', and U2 moves until something works. One picture is of the top, and the other is the bottom.
> 
> Any insights?
> 
> And, could someone point me in the direction of learning CMLL for the roux method? Thanks!View attachment 5889View attachment 5890



your problem is that you haven't fully finished edge orientation. Watch this video and this one and look at this.

For CMLL, everything you will need to know is explained in this video and there are a bunch of useful links in the description.


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## oneshot (Feb 17, 2016)

Thanks PDF! I went back and watched the parts about EO. Works much better now. Still very slow, but better.


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## DoctorKilgrave (Apr 12, 2016)

Looks like I'm reviving a mostly dead topic. My apologies in advance. I read through the entire thread, at least.

Someone pointed this video series out to me. Didn't realize it was made by someone on the forums. Thanks DeeDub.

I'm transitioning from a variation of the beginner's method to this. And hopefully eventually, I'll transition from this to a true Roux.

It's been super helpful. I'm not efficient at block building, but it's so much more fun than LBL. I was getting stuck on the last two steps, but I think I've finally figured it out. A couple dozen more test solves will let me know if I really am getting it, or if I'm getting lucky.

From here, I'll probably tackle 2 look CMLL, and then go through either lubixcube's tutorial or waffle's. Both look helpful.


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## GymsharK (Feb 6, 2017)

Hey @DeeDubb , Thanks for the advice. I have started playing with cube about 3 days ago and found your roux beginner guide. Trust me . I never tried FCOP beginner method so don't know how it is but your method is amazing. I have learn each and every steps and performing in certain minutes.

Can you please give me a road map that till what PB I should do this method only and then what should I learn next and then how to track stuff and then what next like that ? I will really appreciate it if you can give me some guidance with your experience.

Thanks in advanced tho. 

*Cheers and keep spinning ! *


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## AlphaSheep (Feb 7, 2017)

GymsharK said:


> Hey @DeeDubb , Thanks for the advice. I have started playing with cube about 3 days ago and found your roux beginner guide. Trust me . I never tried FCOP beginner method so don't know how it is but your method is amazing. I have learn each and every steps and performing in certain minutes.
> 
> Can you please give me a road map that till what PB I should do this method only and then what should I learn next and then how to track stuff and then what next like that ? I will really appreciate it if you can give me some guidance with your experience.
> 
> ...


I'm not @DeeDubb, but congrats on learning.

Regarding the road map, that is a bad idea. With a beginner method like this, it is far more important to be able to perform all of the steps confidently without hesitation than to be able to solve the cube in a certain time. Focus on being able to do each step without mistakes, and speed will come naturally.

I'd recommend the following steps, although others might recommend a different order:

Get comfortable with the method as you currently use it.
Learn the algorithms for 2-look CMLL. Learn one algorithm at a time and make sure you're comfortable using it before learning the next one.
Try be more efficient when solving the last 6 edges. Take note of places where you have to repeat the same thing over and over and try work out ways to improve that. You can look stuff up online for this step, but I feel it's better to work things out by trying moves and noting what they do.
Work on more efficient ways to solve the first two blocks. Once again, it's better to try work things out yourself than to look things up. Try to use as few moves possible.
Try to plan out as many moves as you can before you start solving. Do it in this order
Plan the moves to build a 2x2x1 square
Plan the 2x2x1 square, but trace how those moves will affect the corner that you will need to use to finish the first block
Plan the 2x2x1 square and trace where both the corner and edge will land up one you build the square
Plan the 2x2x1 square, then plan his you will pair the corner and edge to complete the first block
Plan out the entire first block

Learn 1 look CMLL. At this point it helps to learn algorithms in batches of 2 or 4 at a time. You'll know when you're ready.
Improve LSE efficiency, influence one step while doing the next.
After this point, you will know enough Roux to be able to get sub 10 second solves, but whether or not you do will depend entirely on how much practice you put in.

Make sure you are completely comfortable with each step before moving onto the next one. If you ever find you're making mistakes with previous steps, it means you aren't ready to move on and should go back and practice the previous step.


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## GymsharK (Feb 7, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> I'm not @DeeDubb, but congrats on learning.
> 
> Regarding the road map, that is a bad idea. With a beginner method like this, it is far more important to be able to perform all of the steps confidently without hesitation than to be able to solve the cube in a certain time. Focus on being able to do each step without mistakes, and speed will come naturally.
> 
> ...



Really thanks for the great descriptive advice @AlphaSheep. As it's just a first week of mine with a cube , I will update you once I will be bellow 2 minutes at list with Beginners' method + 2look CMLL in upcoming days.
Appreciate your time and suggestions.



PenguinsDontFly said:


> what about your glorious V perm? or ryans overpowered E perm?


Hey as you guys suggested I started to learn 2-look CMLL but I am confused with 2 things. 

1) waffle's guide advises to use _J-perm for ADJ-Swaps _and Not-N perm for DIAG-Swaps . But here you guys were talking about so many other like *Y-perm , V-perm, N-perm, E-perm* etc. So what should I need to learn?
2)As I have explained earlier , I have learned from @DeeDubb 's method for any permutations that every time take those two corners which I want and set on the L plane. Do *[R U' L' U R' U L]* until I get the right result_* A[BOY] , B[GOY], C[GRY], D[BRY]*_ on the corners clockwise. So what perm is that and for what should I go now? 

2) This permutation algorithms have *X *and *X' *notation for which I don't know how to perform so please guide.

Thanks in advance.


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## Teoidus (Feb 12, 2017)

GymsharK said:


> Really thanks for the great descriptive advice @AlphaSheep. As it's just a first week of mine with a cube , I will update you once I will be bellow 2 minutes at list with Beginners' method + 2look CMLL in upcoming days.
> Appreciate your time and suggestions.
> 
> 
> ...



1) You need two algorithms: most people use J (= R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') and Y (F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'). Some however use J (same as above) and E (x' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D' x)
2) That algorithm is called a Niklas and will permute corners, but will also disorient them if you have already oriented them. It's a different way of solving the U layer corners. DeeDubb and Waffle's methods are mutually exclusive. (But if you learn advanced algorithms, the Niklas will become useful later on)

2. x and x' are rotations. x = L' R M' and x' = L R' M.


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## GymsharK (Feb 12, 2017)

Teoidus said:


> 1) You need two algorithms: most people use J (= R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') and Y (F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'). Some however use J (same as above) and E (x' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D' x)
> 2) That algorithm is called a Niklas and will permute corners, but will also disorient them if you have already oriented them. It's a different way of solving the U layer corners. DeeDubb and Waffle's methods are mutually exclusive. (But if you learn advanced algorithms, the Niklas will become useful later on)
> 
> 2. x and x' are rotations. x = L' R M' and x' = L R' M.



Thanks for the reply bro.

Yea it seems may be for the beginners' method @DeeDubb teaches first how to permute the corners with NIKLAS and then orientation everytime only with SUNE till we get the four yellows on top. I can understand that his motive is to teach that how to solve a puzzle and it's helpful but it's time-consuming with only 1 algorithm (SUNE) to orientate it till we get 4 yellows on top.

1) I've just seen Donovan's videos as well so I will now practice to orientate UL first (with 7 cases) and then permute it (J-perm & Y-perm) as you have suggested.

2) Thanks for this x and x' clarification as well. I can't believe that a week ago I don't even know to just solve this cube puzzle and now this community is so friendly and helpful, I am learning so many interesting things pretty quickly.


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## Kristalghost (Mar 16, 2017)

Hello @DeeDubb, I just created this account because I wanted to thank you for these tutorials. I'm a beginner in CFOP and wanted to try something more intuitive, hence Roux. I coudn't make head nor tails from waffle cube's guide or parts of it at least. I followed your guide and can now do the solve without aid. I'm about to start expanding to it with Waffle's tutorial now. Thanks for the great tutorial, I think you got me hooked on Roux! And apparently I'll have to read the posts in here to.


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## fatymid (Apr 2, 2017)

I'd like to learn this method, but I encounter a lot of troubles on the right block. Usually, corners do not match and when I manage to put them correctly, the edge is misplaced and it goes like trading - either corner or edge is well placed. Is there any resource that I can use for simple algorithms?


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## Jlvs2run (May 23, 2017)

fatymid said:


> I encounter a lot of troubles on the right block. Usually, corners do not match



That means they need to be solved. Donovan's block videos *http://tinyurl.com/ljkyjuh* were
helpful to me. I repeated the moves on 1/4 speed to see them, which is important when beginning.



> when I manage to put them correctly, the edge is misplaced and it goes like trading - either corner or edge is well placed. Is there any resource that I can use for simple algorithms?



You don't need algs for 2nd block. Just keep practicing the moves.
This block trainer http://cubegrass.appspot.com/block_trainer/ has helpful examples.


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## Jlvs2run (May 25, 2017)

GymsharK said:


> it's time-consuming with only 1 algorithm (SUNE) to orientate it till we get 4 yellows on top.



There are 4 cases with Anti-sune, and 3 cases with Sune. According to my calculations the average Niklas plus Anti-sune / Sune move count is [ 7 + 10.5 ] *17.5*, compared to Anti-sune / Sune plus J / Y perm being [ 10.5 + 15 ] *25.5*. I tried the second method last year for awhile and found it to be slower, plus more complicated.


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