# The Gan Debate Thread



## ProStar (May 8, 2020)

Love em or hate em, we all have an opinion on them. What do you think of Gan and their puzzles? Do they need to start making something unique and not just a bunch of extremely similar 3x3s, or is Mr. Gan today's Thomas Edison?


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

I personally dislike their cubes, if i had to tell them something to make their cubes better, I’d say make them slower,
But that’s just my opinion and i know people are fine with their cubes that fast.


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## Hazel (May 8, 2020)

Have they innovated a bunch and done a lot for the cubing community? Absolutely.

Are their cubes excessively priced? Also absolutely.

Do they make good cubes? Very much so.

Are their expensive cubes for everybody? No way.


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## Sion (May 8, 2020)

Aerma said:


> Have they innovated a bunch and done a lot for the cubing community? Absolutely.
> 
> Are their cubes excessively priced? Also absolutely.
> 
> ...




The only things they can really call their own are their magnet rods and numerical. The XS seems very much ripped off from MoYu, and all of their recent puzzles seem like copies of each-other.


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

Sion said:


> The only things they can really call their own are their magnet rods and numerical. The XS seems very much ripped off from MoYu, and all of their recent puzzles seem like copies of each-other.


like they’re not innovating any more?


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## Nmile7300 (May 8, 2020)

They are innovative in terms of customization, but _let's be honest the piece design hasn't changed since the 356._


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

Nmile7300 said:


> They are innovative in terms of customization, but _let's be honest the piece design hasn't changed since the 356._


356 sm


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## Sion (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> 356 sm



The only altered things were some honeycombs instead of regular tracks, an extra torpedo, slightly different edge shape, and weight. 

There are many more differences between the gts1 and gts2.


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## Pyr (May 8, 2020)

They really innovated on the price of flagships, I'll give them that

I also really like how gross their business model is, it's really fascinating to watch from a distance

Also the X is ok



ProStar said:


> Love em or hate em, we all have an opinion on them. What do you think of Gan and their puzzles? Do they need to start making something unique and not just a bunch of extremely similar 3x3s, or is Mr. Gan today's Thomas Edison?



oh boy here we go


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

I still can't get over the fact that they only produce good hardware in 2 events (debatably 3 but the 251 is not as good as the valk or mgc imo) and when they do branch out it's most likely a failure like with the original gan 249 and 460.


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## 3ACuber (May 8, 2020)

Yes, they had 5 years and all they changed in the pieces was the honeycomb pattern (As if v2 was better than v1...)

They have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from pretty much the same cube


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

Alex Moscibroda said:


> They have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from pretty much the same cube


I agree with that, especially when they are charging upwards of 50 dollars for a cube where the only difference from the last version is a slight tweak to customization and an older core that they have already used.


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## BenChristman1 (May 8, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> only produce good hardware in 2 events


??? Which events?


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## brododragon (May 8, 2020)

They've just become a successful company with a premium reputation, so, why waste money on research and development when you can just make minor adjustments and have people buy your products just the same?


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> I agree with that, especially when they are charging upwards of 50 dollars for a cube where the only difference from the last version is a slight tweak to customization and an older core that they have already used.


Yeah but think about having to buy the plastic, having to buy all the bolts and nuts (no dirty jokes pls) and all the magnets.
They need to get their money back somehow, remember it’s business.


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## brododragon (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> Yeah but think about having to buy the plastic, having to buy all the bolts and nuts (no dirty jokes pls) and all the magnets.
> They need to get their money back somehow, remember it’s business.


It's not like other companies are doing the same for 20-30$, right?


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## Pyr (May 8, 2020)

Alex Moscibroda said:


> They have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from pretty much the same cube



Yea, GAN is in the business of making money, rather than innovative cubes

Their products from the ground up reek of pure advertising and trying to sell you on this sleek and innovative aesthetic they manufacture. I'd argue the honeycomb pattern is pretty symbolic of this, as it's actual practicality is questionable, but it looks _beautiful_ on their site



BenChristman1 said:


> ??? Which events?



3x3 and Megaminx


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> Yeah but think about having to buy the plastic, having to buy all the bolts and nuts (no dirty jokes pls) and all the magnets.
> They need to get their money back somehow, remember it’s business.


But at the same time YJ is pumping out a magnetic cube for 8 dollars, at the same time qiyi is making a magnetic cube for 10 dollars, and moyu is making a magnetic cube for 15.


BenChristman1 said:


> ??? Which events?


mega and 3x3


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

brododragon said:


> It's not like other companies are doing the same for 20-30$, right?


Not really in aus


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## BenChristman1 (May 8, 2020)

Pyr said:


> 3x3 and Megaminx





Sub1Hour said:


> mega and 3x3


Oh, duh.


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> But at the same time YJ is pumping out a magnetic cube for 8 dollars, at the same time qiyi is making a magnetic cube for 10 dollars, and moyu is making a magnetic cube for 15.


But remember the x, it came with over 100 magnets.


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> Not really in aus


we are talking USD here.


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## BenChristman1 (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> But remember the x, it came with over 100 magnets.


I just noticed, you used my template for your PB sheet.


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> But remember the x, it came with over 100 magnets.


https://www.ebay.com/p/628976484?ii...w4871BRAjEiwAbxXi205yAmn5g-GeL5ttNk6tAFhNeYep these magnets cost 3 dollars


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## Hazel (May 8, 2020)

Pyr said:


> I'd argue the honeycomb pattern is pretty symbolic of this, as it's actual practicality is questionable, but it looks _beautiful_ on their site



The honeycomb pattern is good for keeping lube in the cube, and I think it works. But it's also good at trapping grime. When I used the 354 or the X, I had to clean them out _constantly._


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> I just noticed, you used my template for your PB sheet.


Oh yeah thanks, but of topic



Sub1Hour said:


> https://www.ebay.com/p/628976484?ii...w4871BRAjEiwAbxXi205yAmn5g-GeL5ttNk6tAFhNeYep these magnets cost 3 dollars


You know what, gan is stupid, their getting the expensive magnets, why don’t they just get the cheap ones (yes i know, the x had different strength magnets)sorry for double post


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## brododragon (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> Not really in aus


30-45 AUD.


Sub1Hour said:


> https://www.ebay.com/p/628976484?ii...w4871BRAjEiwAbxXi205yAmn5g-GeL5ttNk6tAFhNeYep these magnets cost 3 dollars


You can get them for less if you really look.
EDIT: Way less a piece: 





Retail Wholesale 10000pcs 5mm x 1mm Disc Rare Earth Neodymium Super Strong Magnets N35 Craft Model magnet 5x1mm _ {categoryName} - AliExpress Mobile Version -


Quality Retail Wholesale 10000pcs 5mm x 1mm Disc Rare Earth Neodymium Super Strong Magnets N35 Craft Model magnet 5x1mm with free worldwide shipping on AliExpress Mobile




m.aliexpress.com


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## BenChristman1 (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> Oh yeah thanks, but of topic


Well, we'd better get back on-topic then. I personally think that Gan has come up with some really cool ideas, but they have just been recreating old cubes. I really like the customization of the X, but I am hoping to get the Tengyun v2, because I think that that is better.


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## ProStar (May 8, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> I agree with that, especially when they are charging upwards of 50 dollars for a cube where the only difference from the last version is a slight tweak to customization and an older core that they have already used.



Sounds like TNLCubings Moyu skit


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> You know what, gan is stupid, their getting the expensive magnets, why don’t they just get the cheap ones (yes i know, the x had different strength magnets)sorry for double post


Don't quote me in this but I think that gan did get the cheap ones or at least ones that are cheap in bulk. Since they are based in China I'm guessing that they have easy access to bulk goods like plastic and magnets that are produced for a cheap price in China.


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

I wonder how much. A skewb made by gan would cost


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Sounds like TNLCubings Moyu skit


I will admit that the wrm is my main, maybe a little bit hypocritical but at least they had a high demand from the community to get rid of the ridges, and then they did.


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## Pyr (May 8, 2020)

Aerma said:


> The honeycomb pattern is good for keeping lube in the cube, and I think it works. But it's also good at trapping grime. When I used the 354 or the X, I had to clean them cube _constantly._



This probably wasn't the best example of what I mean in hindsight, sometimes more like their focus on marketing their cubes and how they release products would have been better to reference

That being said though, our X goes through lube like it's nothing. Rather than the lube rubbing over the pieces normally, it seems to just get caught in the honeycomb pattern, requiring a lot more than most cubes. I can't say we've ever had this issue in any other cube to this extent



Sub1Hour said:


> I will admit that the wrm is my main, maybe a little bit hypocritical but at least they had a high demand from the community to get rid of the ridges, and then they did.



It was a silly change, but yea, it made more sense because of the outcry for a version without ridges. We still use our GTS3LM though

Releasing a variant because there was a huge controversy over a design choice is different than releasing the same design over and over again for years. The GTS line has more differences between one cube and the next than a lot of GAN puzzles have between each other. The WRM is an exception, not the norm


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## ProStar (May 8, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> I will admit that the wrm is my main, maybe a little bit hypocritical but at least they had a high demand from the community to get rid of the ridges, and then they did.



I'll refer to a post I made on the subject of GTS3M/WRM/GTS3LM:



ProStar said:


> There's completely no difference [with ridges] imo. I've tried the WRM, and they don't really change anything when it comes to slices(although that kinda makes sense cause they're on the outside anyway). And as far as preventing slipping your hands off the cube, it's really rare anyway so the ridges again don't really change anything. Basically this is the story of ridges:
> 
> Moyu: "Let's put ridges!"
> Cubers before trying: "WTH ARE U CRAZY THIS CUBE SUX"
> ...


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

tbh, i dont even think cubes should be that expensive because at the end of the day, it’s just a puzzle that we’re all addicted too


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> I'll refer to a post I made on the subject of GTS3M/WRM/GTS3LM:


I'm still waiting for my WRWRWRWRm (Which is in fact a ridged GTS3 with a whole 12 duel adjustment spring tensions)


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## ProStar (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> tbh, i dont even think cubes should be that expensive because at the end of the day, it’s just a puzzle that we’re all addicted too



To be fair, $60 is _cheap_ for the top of the line(supposedly) cube compared to most hobbies. My Brother plays Guitar, and a new one will cost upwards of 1k easily


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> To be fair, $60 is _cheap_ for the top of the line(supposedly) cube compared to most hobbies. My Brother plays Guitar, and a new one will cost upwards of 1k easily


Well yeah true, my dream pc would cost about $8000 aud
Edit No my parents would never pay for that


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> To be fair, $60 is _cheap_ for the top of the line(supposedly) cube compared to most hobbies. My Brother plays Guitar, and a new one will cost upwards of 1k easily


The cubing perspective is quite different when it comes to hardware from other hobbies. Cubing hardware seems to advance much, much faster than in most other hobbies. I know a lot of hobbies where it's very common to use something that came out in 2008 but you don't see cubers using alpha 5s anymore


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## ProStar (May 8, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> The cubing perspective is quite different when it comes to hardware from other hobbies. Cubing hardware seems to advance much, much faster than in most other hobbies. I know a lot of hobbies where it's very common to use something that came out in 2008 but you don't see cubers using alpha 5s anymore



But most things have been around much longer than cubing has(not counting the no hardware updates in 1980s-2000)


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> But most things have been around much longer than cubing has(not counting the no hardware updates in 1980s-2000)


That is very true, I wonder when the hobby will get old enough where people start paying hundreds for slight improvements in the hardware. I also think that it's very cool that cubing has a very low entry cost since after all its just a bunch of plastic and screws and not something as complex as an instrument or (Insert thing used for hobby that is complex)


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## Pyr (May 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> There's completely no difference [with ridges] imo. I've tried the WRM, and they don't really change anything when it comes to slices(although that kinda makes sense cause they're on the outside anyway). And as far as preventing slipping your hands off the cube, it's really rare anyway so the ridges again don't really change anything. Basically this is the story of ridges:
> 
> Moyu: "Let's put ridges!"
> Cubers before trying: "WTH ARE U CRAZY THIS CUBE SUX"
> ...



Those are 2 different groups of people, though

The people who were fine with the ridges were the minority, compared to the large amounts of people who complained about being forced to have to use them to use the GTS3. The complaints only died down _after_ the WRM released and people could choose, at which point the people who were fine with ridges could be heard a bit better



ProStar said:


> To be fair, $60 is _cheap_ for the top of the line(supposedly) cube compared to most hobbies. My Brother plays Guitar, and a new one will cost upwards of 1k easily



This has much more to do with production costs and craftsmanship than it does anything else. Cubing is only cheaper than most hobbies because the products take less material and tuning and can be quickly massed produced. $60 is great for a large, fully functioning, quality instrument, but it's not great for a small chunk of molded plastic and magnets that can be produced cheaply and quickly at an incredibly small fraction of the price


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## ProStar (May 8, 2020)

Pyr said:


> Those are 2 different groups of people, though
> 
> The people who were fine with the ridges were the minority, compared to the large amounts of people who complained about being forced to have to use them to use the GTS3. The complaints only died down _after_ the WRM released and people could choose, at which point the people who were fine with ridges could be heard a bit better



That's not true, almost everyone thought the ridges were whatever, and very few thought they were proactively bad


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

Pyr said:


> it's not great for a small chunk of molded plastic and magnets that can be produced cheaply and quickly at an incredibly small fraction of the price


My dad is still wondering why he paid $75 for a 5x5
Edit: but not why he paid $2500 for a laptop


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## ProStar (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> My dad is still wondering why he paid $75 for a 5x5



Angstrom Valk? It's the only 5x5 close to that price


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Angstrom Valk? It's the only 5x5 close to that price


https://www.speedcube.com.au/collections/qiyi/products/qiyi-valk-5?variant=23382864920657 now do you know


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> My dad is still wondering why he paid $75 for a 5x5
> Edit: but not why he paid $2500 for a laptop


Well, a 5x5 is much more intricate than a 3x3 and the benefits of moving hardware on big cubes are much greater than 3x3. I paid 31 dollars USD for a pro shop MGC 5x5 and its very good despite the price. I also get your comment about complaining about a cubes price right after buying an expensive piece of tech. It just does not make sense to most people to spend that much on a cube, but those are also the same people that question buying a CCTV for Tetris or speedrunning. You gotta do what you gotta do to cut away at those times.


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> buying a CCTV for Tetris or speedrunning. You gotta do what you gotta do to cut away at those times.


I dont know if its just i want to defend cubing but i think that’s a little bit more dedication than cubing


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> I dont know if its just i want to defend cubing but i think that’s a little bit more dedication than cubing


I don't speedrun retro games (I might in the future) or play Tetris competitively but I can tell you that it's worth reducing lag.


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> I don't speedrun retro games (I might in the future) or play Tetris competitively but I can tell you that it's worth reducing lag.


Can’t you just get an emulator, oh wait i think there’s a rule against that


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## Sub1Hour (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> Can’t you just get an emulator, oh wait i think there’s a rule against that


Using real hardware with a CCTV is the method with the least lag involved (or at least thats what I could gather from watching Phillip Lewicki talk about Tetris)


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## brododragon (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> Can’t you just get an emulator, oh wait i think there’s a rule against that





Sub1Hour said:


> Using real hardware with a CCTV is the method with the least lag involved (or at least thats what I could gather from watching Phillip Lewicki talk about Tetris)


Speedrunning tech is just too complicated to summarize in a couple sentences.


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## Username: Username: (May 8, 2020)

Just wondering, is this a random debate thread or the Gan debate thread?
seems to be a lot of off-topic discs'

anyway, I feel they are great at making exorbitantly high-price tags for a good cube, but succs at making budget cube because they are also expensive for some people.


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## Cody_Caston (May 8, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> Just wondering, is this a random debate thread or the Gan debate thread?
> seems to be a lot of off-topic discs'
> 
> anyway, I feel they are great at making exorbitantly high-price tags for a good cube, but succs at making budget cube because they are also expensive for some people.


He’s not wrong with off topic


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## 1cubealot (May 8, 2020)

Cody_Caston said:


> I wonder how much. A skewb made by gan would cost


$Yes


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## kubesolver (May 8, 2020)

I started cubing a little over a year ago and since that time I have bought roughly 10 different 3x3 cubes from different manufacturers.

At the beginning with every cube I bought I felt that I get genuinely better cube so I started buying even more stuff to see if I like something even more.

I switch frequently between all my 3x3 and I can say with confidence that for me, for my turning style none of the other cubes matches what I get from the GAN XS.

If anyone believes that there is some other 3x3x3 that has a potential to be the best for me please let me know. I am willing to try that one out as well.



Spoiler: My personal standings are as follow right now:



Gan XS,
Gan 354M v1,
Gan 356X v2,
Gan 354M v2,
Dayan Tengyun,
WRM. (but I can feel that in other hands it could be the best cube. Maybe if I wasn't used to gan so much)
Gan 356i,
The Valk Power 3M,
Kylin,
The Valk Power 3 without M



For some people Gan cubes just feel the best. I don't care about marketing, I don't care who invented what, I don't care too much about the cube price, I just care what feels best for me. And if there is enough people like me out there - it's fair for Gan to charge premium for that.


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## AbsoRuud (May 8, 2020)

When people stop buying their cubes they'll lower the prices, it's simple as that. But people buy their cubes because for a lot of people they are extremely good cubes. So their market strategy works and is quite brilliant.


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## HG Cubing (May 8, 2020)

i think gan cubes are good but over priced


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## Username: Username: (May 8, 2020)

AbsoRuud said:


> When people stop buying their cubes they'll lower the prices, it's simple as that. But people buy their cubes because for a lot of people they are extremely good cubes. So their market strategy works and is quite brilliant.



so basically, Gan is the Supreme brand of cubing, hypebeasts are Gan fanboys.


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## alexiscubing (May 9, 2020)

tbh the only gan cubes I love are the mega, well setup 251 (very unstable unless setup well), and 354m. I thought the most impressive things gan have done recently were the incredibly fast and light megaminx, and the smaller size of the 354m, which was the main of pretty much every cuber under 10, and OH mains for a lot of people


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## Timoth3 (May 9, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> so basically, Gan is the Supreme brand of cubing, hypebeasts are Gan fanboys.


To an extent. With supreme you are buying the name to flex, not because the product is good. With Gan it’s the best option for a lot of people, although I’m sure some spoiled kid gets them just to flex...

Edit: Gan = Apple down to the letter. Naming scheme, high quality, no change in design, overpriced, everything.


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## alexiscubing (May 9, 2020)

yeah, i still dont get why people buy so much supreme merch, its basically an unimaginative tshirt that is expensive


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## Cody_Caston (May 9, 2020)

GANQIYIMOYU said:


> gan will never lower their prices, they overuse materials to make the cubes so it is so expensive, plus labor and added profit, they will rather go bankrupt.


That’s what i was saying


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## David Zemdegs (May 9, 2020)

For me there's no argument. Gan sponsors Feliks so I use a Valk


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## Timoth3 (May 9, 2020)

David Zemdegs said:


> For me there's no argument. Gan sponsors Feliks so I use a Valk


Oof


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## ProStar (May 9, 2020)

David Zemdegs said:


> For me there's no argument. Gan sponsors Feliks so I use a Valk



*Fazrulz* has been yeeted into the void by *FazDad*


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## Sub1Hour (May 9, 2020)

I'm not sure if anyone else sees this at competitions but in my area, I notice that on average the faster a person is the less likely they are to use a gan cube. When I staff I see all of these people that avg 1:15-45 on 3x3 and most of them use the X or XS. Once you get into the final round the most common cube is the WRm followed by Valk variants, GTS3s, and then MF3RS3s and Tengyuns. At the final round of 3x3 that happened in my area, there was only 1 person using a gan cube.


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## EngiNerdBrian (May 9, 2020)

To me Gan is the Louis Vuitton, Rolex, newest Apple product, Cadillac of cubes. Yeah they’re nice but tons of other products accomplish 99% of the features at 25%-75% of the price. 
The marginal increase in quality or features is not worth the large difference in cash. I think there are many other more economical choices out there that offer similar stability and speed. Gan cubes do have a unique style and feel, and if that works for you I could see why someone would become a big fan of their products.

They market themselves as premium and that marketing effort is powerful and has been very successful. They are good cubes but they aren’t THAT good...mostly just a little bit different.

I’m glad I purchased my XS at a discounted rate ($35)-it’s the most expensive 3x3 in my collection and still not my main...hard to justify paying such a premium for any more Gan cubes when I reach for a $20 YLM over the XS daily.


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## AbsoRuud (May 9, 2020)

GANQIYIMOYU said:


> gan will never lower their prices, they overuse materials to make the cubes so it is so expensive, plus labor and added profit, they will rather go bankrupt.


That is simply not true. Companies will rather make less profit than go bankrupt.


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## KPOACAH (May 9, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Love em or hate em, we all have an opinion on them. What do you think of Gan and their puzzles? Do they need to start making something unique and not just a bunch of extremely similar 3x3s, or is Mr. Gan today's Thomas Edison?


This os good question. For me turning is insane, but VEEEERY unstable. Let's get my main(gan r s) this is very good cube, but in the box are not any springs or settings. For this money i can buy valk 3, but i know it have more potential than the gan r s. Gan are very expensive, but actually the parts are for something like 10 dollars. I can't understand why gan x s is too expensive, because the magnets are not too much expensive and rhe springs are nothing special. There are budger cubes like little magic m, who are better than the gan cubes. For me gan are high-cost trash. They want to put cheaper ipg in their cubes(the plastic ipg)and sold them for expensive. Now let's get the gan 356 m- the lite version is 5dollars cheaper, because in the box are not ges nuts, but wait Are too expensive just 20 springs? For this money i can get new cube. Noo, gan no!


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## PetrusQuber (May 9, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> I'm not sure if anyone else sees this at competitions but in my area, I notice that on average the faster a person is the less likely they are to use a gan cube. When I staff I see all of these people that avg 1:15-45 on 3x3 and most of them use the X or XS. Once you get into the final round the most common cube is the WRm followed by Valk variants, GTS3s, and then MF3RS3s and Tengyuns. At the final round of 3x3 that happened in my area, there was only 1 person using a gan cube.


I guess newer cubers are more likely to think because of the high price tag, Gan is the best, and when they get faster, they switch to different cubes? And newer cubers think new cubes help a lot with times.


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## u Cube (May 9, 2020)

Gan cubes are good and all but I feel like they are overcomplicated now and they have too many variants. Releasing a new flagship every 4-5 months and then raising the price by 10 dollars or so. Tbh none of the gans new installments are inherently better than their old ones. I think the SM, 354, X, and XS are relatively similar in performance, yet they range from 35 dollars to 60 dollars, just for magnet and spring customization? And for me they 100% aren't worth is because the M slices generally don't have good flow into U moves so Roux users like me won't get them. I think gan is too focused on customization and they are making it needlessly hard. The X had the perfect easy to understand system and the XS ruined that (for me).


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## brododragon (May 9, 2020)

GAN has the same naming system as Apple: Some expensive numbers followed by *really *expensive letters.


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## dudefaceguy (May 9, 2020)

I have never bought a Gan cube because they are so expensive. So, that's my non-opinion about whether or not they are worth the price.


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## brododragon (May 9, 2020)

I think before buying an X/XS/Xv2 you should buy a 356M/RS.


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## Username: Username: (May 9, 2020)

brododragon said:


> GAN has the same naming system as Apple: Some expensive numbers followed by *really *expensive letters.


 Gan's designers : we should name this new and indistinguishable product the Gan 356 XS Max Pro


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## Sub1Hour (May 9, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> I guess newer cubers are more likely to think because of the high price tag, Gan is the best, and when they get faster, they switch to different cubes? And newer cubers think new cubes help a lot with times.


I do think that is a big part of it, I also think that newer cubers only care about performance and customization but don't even think about stability. Stability is something that I value in my cubes. My last 4 mains in order were the GTS3 Valk3 Valk Elite and most recently the Mystic WRm. I love these cubes because they feel quite stable and I look for that when choosing a main. This is also the same reason that people don't use the Qiyi Square-1 or Qifa competitively. Their corner cutting is by far the best but they are so unstable and unreliable (Something I notice in gan puzzles) that it's just not worth it. I think that once people begin to try highly stable puzzles like the Valk line and RS3, they realize how important it is to have a stable puzzle. I also would like to give out a PSA to gan cube users, please don't dump an entire syringe of weight 2 inside of your cube. I have felt so many over lubed Xs while scrambling at competitions. Gan cubes can be great if they are set up correctly, but if you have to dump a ton of lube inside of your gan to make it more controllable, try switching to something else.


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## Owen Morrison (May 10, 2020)

David Zemdegs said:


> For me there's no argument. Gan sponsors Feliks so I use a Valk


Valk's are the best.


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## DerpBoiMoon (May 10, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> Valk's are the best.


Yes. Gan is overrated.


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## KeationianCube (May 10, 2020)

I got an rs and it’s ABSOLUTELY TRASH. If it had magnets, it would probably be good, but it’s too unstable. Also the honeycomb is too good at its job and gets grime in it constantly.


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## Sion (May 10, 2020)

I don't mind Gan releasing so many products, I just wish they would make new designs that could be considered distinct cubes as opposed to different versions of the same cube. While admittedly it is quite impressive that they are able to wrap an elaborate track design around cubies and also mold it, I wish they would try new designs as well.


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## KeationianCube (May 10, 2020)

I think the Gan copied the magnet system that’s in the XS from the YueXiao EDM. The EDM was released 4 months before the XS. I really don’t think they did, but I noticed that and decided it might be good for this thread.


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## Cubingcubecuber (May 11, 2020)

KeationianCube said:


> I think the Gan copied the magnet system that’s in the XS from the YueXiao EDM.





KeationianCube said:


> I really don’t think they did


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## KeationianCube (May 11, 2020)

*facepalm Lol I’m so dumb


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## brododragon (May 11, 2020)

KeationianCube said:


> I think the Gan copied the magnet system that’s in the XS from the YueXiao EDM. The EDM was released 4 months before the XS. I really don’t think they did, but I noticed that and decided it might be good for this thread.


Aren't the EDM's and XS's system different? Doesn't the XS have interchangeble capsules and the EDM has adjustable magnets like the MGC?

That grammering was horrible


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## fun at the joy (May 11, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Aren't the EDM's and XS's system different? Doesn't the XS have interchangeble capsules and the EDM has adjustable magnets like the MGC?
> 
> That grammering was horrible


the only difference is that the XS has 3 different magnet settings and the EDM has 2, the magnet systems are the same.
the X had interchangeble capsules


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## Mischiiii (May 11, 2020)

I really like their 3x3s. I especially like the easy customizable design. I hate adjusting tensions with screws because you have to check by eye if you have the tensions equal on all sides. That’s one thing everyone should do. I don’t really care about the price. I treat my puzzles like video games. A game costs basically the same and most of the time a cube has more playtime as a game.


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## intuition chapadoya (May 14, 2020)

i believe they should be more diverse in their manufacture and designs. i would like them to make more diverse budget cubes for different people.


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## I'm A Cuber (May 14, 2020)

intuition chapadoya said:


> i believe they should be more diverse in their manufacture and designs. i would like them to make more diverse budget cubes for different people.


I think they are listening to people’s complaints. They are making a budget series, monster go, which has a price tag similar to other budget cubes. They have the 356 M, which is almost as good as the x/xs/xv2, and is priced near other companies’ flagships. GAN has heard you. Stop complaining. No offense, but some of you are just too thickskulled to realize it. Other companies might have changed their base piece design, while GAN hasn’t, and yet GAN cubes are still used by Max and Feliks. The Moyu/qiyi/yj/Dayan cubes may have changed their design, but it still isn’t as good as GAN’s. If you don’t like GAN slightly changing something and branding it as a new cube, *then don’t buy it.* *Nobody is forcing you to.*

Wow that was long. And I only have one GAN cube lol.

Edit: reading that back, I realize I might have seemed mean to intuition chapadoya. Sorry if you felt that way, I didn’t mean to be mean (Homonyms lol)


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## Sub1Hour (May 14, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> They have the 356 M, which is almost as good as the x/xs/xv2,


I think that the 356 M _*IS *_the gan x.


I'm A Cuber said:


> GAN cubes are still used by Max and Feliks. The Moyu/qiyi/yj/Dayan cubes may have changed their design, but it still isn’t as good as GAN’s.


Just because Max uses a cube does not mean its the best. Its the best for him but it's sure not the best for everyone else. See post I made here 


Sub1Hour said:


> I'm not sure if anyone else sees this at competitions but in my area, I notice that on average the faster a person is the less likely they are to use a gan cube. When I staff I see all of these people that avg 1:15-45 on 3x3 and most of them use the X or XS. Once you get into the final round the most common cube is the WRm followed by Valk variants, GTS3s, and then MF3RS3s and Tengyuns. At the final round of 3x3 that happened in my area, there was only 1 person using a gan cube.





I'm A Cuber said:


> If you don’t like GAN slightly changing something and branding it as a new cube, *then don’t buy it.* *Nobody is forcing you to.*


I agree with you on this point. I don't like gan cubes, so I don't buy em. I feel like this thread seems a little more hostile than it should. I think that gan lovers and gan haters should read this before going off the rails because someone did not want to pay 60 dollars for a slightly tweaked cube, or if someone did pay 60 dollars for a slightly tweaked cube.


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## I'm A Cuber (May 19, 2020)

Can you put different colored ges nuts into a Gan rs?


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## Sub1Hour (May 19, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> Can you put different colored ges nuts into a Gan rs?


The GES on the rs look like they can be swapped with the ones that come with the M but im not sure for certain, but why would you want weaker springs in a cube that already feels like jello?


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## I'm A Cuber (May 19, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> The GES on the rs look like they can be swapped with the ones that come with the M but im not sure for certain, but why would you want weaker springs in a cube that already feels like jello?


I magnetized it, but the magnets are too strong for how slow the cube is


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## Sub1Hour (May 20, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> I magnetized it, but the magnets are too strong for how slow the cube is


Well then try using the nuts from the M, I don't know if it will work but the core looks identical


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## CodingCuber (May 21, 2020)

hi. I think GAN does make the best 3x3s but other than that they are pretty rubbish


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## ProStar (Jun 1, 2020)

In TheCubicle's newsletter, they say that the new Gan Explorer is a rerelease of the 354 V2 except it includes extra GES nuts. Instead of just letting people buy a set of GES nuts, Gan has to sell the same cube with it and tell everyone it's new...


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## HaHaHaHeeHeeHee (Jun 2, 2020)

eww i dont like gan


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## Chinmay47 (Jun 2, 2020)

Actually the problem with GAN is that it doesn't like to step in the global market of Puzzles except the NxN puzzles. Look at its history. It has a lot of puzzles and their updated versions. The 460 M 4x4 is available in both stickerless and stickered. It then came out with two versions of the 249 M, both having stickered and stickerless types of their own. The 356 line has so many more versions including the X, XS, R, SM, Air SM, i, XM, Air UM, RS and the 330. Recently it also came out with the MonsterGo collection for beginners including the MonsterGo Cloud Blue and Pink. And finally the latest GAN Megaminx, unfortunately, only in stickerless. These variants, considering both their stickered and stickerless types, amounts for some 30 types of cubes!
.
Now this is the problem with it. It is continuously improving the mechanisms and types of the 3x3 only. Sometimes it changes the magnet replacement system, and sometimes, it switches to a full plastic core to make the cube light. It isn't ready to come out with other WCA events. I mean, just think about it. A GAN Pyraminx? With some 60 or something magnets? A GAN Skewb? With 60 magnets? A GAN Square-1, with 64 magnets? These will hit out the market just as they'll come. GAN is known for its premium products and this one will really help raising its popularity among other speedcube manufacturers
.
I personally feel the need to have more types of puzzles for their respective events, rather than having the same event with many types of puzzles. Why didn't I replace my Rubik's brand 3x3 with some flagship speedcube 6 months ago? (It performs really good though now!) The reason simply being that I wanted more events rather than some new 3x3s. Instead of getting the new MGC Elite right away, I first went on for a new Megaminx, Pyraminx, Skewb and a 2x2.
.
Now I have 5 different puzzles instead of having the same old 3x3. This really helps a lot to keep a balance between all the WCA events and keeps you ready for all WCA events whenever they come.
.
So personally I feel that GAN needs to produce "new types of products" rather than "new products". It would be really great if it can make all WCA puzzles at the earliest. Being a Sub-5 Pyraminxer, I really look forward to a GAN Pyraminx. With 36 magnets or so, factory default blue GES nuts, lubed with the Angstrom Gravitas Angstrom Dignitas and the DNM 37 or Lubicle Black or SCS Cosmic Nebula, and stickered with the best quality stickers or maybe stickerless. I've used only one GAN product till now which is the 356 X and I actually love the feel of GAN Cubes! I mean, its not super impressive, as I have some preference for the MGC line and the Kylin Black line of cubes, but the texture, the turning and the smoothness makes it feel like a premium product actually!
.
Not a big fan of GAN cubes, but will surely join the GAN fray if it comes out with puzzles other than the NxNs and the Megaminx!


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## alexiscubing (Jun 2, 2020)

Ok, I love some gan cubes, but I hate others
The Gan354m is my current main, and one of my favourite cubes. I personally think that the XS feels cheap and isnt as good as the X, and the 4x4 is pretty garbage. The Mega is amazing though. Overall the price isnt worth the puzzles, although they have some 'great' cubes


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## I'm A Cuber (Jun 2, 2020)

ProStar said:


> In TheCubicle's newsletter, they say that the new Gan Explorer is a rerelease of the 354 V2 except it includes extra GES nuts. Instead of just letting people buy a set of GES nuts, Gan has to sell the same cube with it and tell everyone it's new...


Except for the fact that this exists:








GAN Digital GES Set


This is a set of the Numerical GES from GAN. This is the set that comes with the 356 M, but they are compatible with other puzzles from GAN as well. Compatible with: GAN 356 M GAN 356 M Lite GAN 356 X V2 GAN 356 XS GAN 354 V2




www.thecubicle.com




Also, where can I find this newsletter?


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## ProStar (Jun 2, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> Except for the fact that this exists:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That just makes it worse lol. You can sign up on the website


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 2, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> Except for the fact that this exists:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a different set than the one that comes with the 354 "Explorer". The "Explorer Set" comes with blue instead of purple so if you want blue you are kind of screwed unless you want to pay an extra 40 dollars for the same exact cube for 1 set of nuts.


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 16, 2020)

It seems like Cyoubx shares many of the same veiws as I do regarding GAN as a company.




All GAN fanboys, watch this video and then maybe you should find a new company to follow.

Also here is a graph/chart that he made to display how rediculous GAN is as a company with their post SM cubes.




_*HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY MAKING 6 CUBES FOR INSANE PRICES WITH ONLY 2 DIFFERENT MODELS?*_


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## pi³ (Jun 16, 2020)

GAN is high quality but you can get similar quality cubes for much cheaper prices from Moyu or Qiyi. Plus, it seems like almost every new release is very similar to the last one except for a few small changes. Also, look at the first section in my signature  GAN also seems very stubborn as they only make megaminxes and NxNs.


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## ProStar (Jun 16, 2020)

pi³ said:


> GAN is high quality but you can get similar quality cubes for much cheaper prices from Moyu or Qiyi. Plus, it seems like almost every new release is very similar to the last one except for a few small changes. Also, look at the first section in my signature  GAN also seems very stubborn as they only make megaminxes and NxNs.



They've made one megaminx and one 4x4, so really they only make 3x3s. Although it's been confirmed that we'll get some side events sometime


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## pi³ (Jun 16, 2020)

ProStar said:


> They've made one megaminx and one 4x4, so really they only make 3x3s. Although it's been confirmed that we'll get some side events sometime


Sometime? I've been waiting for them forever


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## ProStar (Jun 16, 2020)

pi³ said:


> Sometime? I've been waiting for them forever



They've officially confirmed it though


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## Spacey10 (Jun 16, 2020)

ProStar said:


> They've officially confirmed it though


Clonnc pls







its just a prank bro
copyright @NevEr_QeyX eyX


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 17, 2020)

I would honestly rather see gan release this than rehash the XS or X with different GES _AGAIN_


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## kubesolver (Jun 17, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> All GAN fanboys, watch this video and then maybe you should find a new company to follow.



Hate on GAN is just silly. There is absolutely nothing shady or unethical going on.

Their cubes are almost perfect, and a lot of people don't believe that a major improvement in 3x3x3 area is possible nor it is necessary. Instead of making something stupid like trying to be creative and ruining a perfect product they make slight variations of the same thing. What a crime!?

Also complaining that they try to make money is also silly. Not only someone who makes a product people want to buy deserves to make money, but also you have no clue how much time and money they wasted in the labs for the products that didn't work. They work on products other than 3x3x3, but somehow can't release it. How many prototypes have went to trash? How many people are working on it? Where should the money for this come from?

Research and production is gambling. You invest a lot of money into product and often lost everything if you fail or lose a lot if the product turns out to be unpopular. If you spawn a popular product you deserve to collect a jackpot.


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 17, 2020)

kubesolver said:


> Hate on GAN is just silly. There is absolutely nothing shady or unethical going on.


Well, I consider lying to your customers to be shady. That is a bit of a stretch though, but they have not said anything about the RS, M, or X v2 to have the same exact mechanism as the X. They also did the same thing by advertising the Air M as a completely new puzzle even though it's just an XS. I have a few problems with their 3x3's after the XS just being rehashes with no changes aside from the core and magnets, but I do have a problem when they don't tell you that its the same cube. Their marketing makes it look like they are all brand new and different puzzles and that's at least a little shady. I would be fine if they actually came out and said "Hey, The M is just the X, if you have one, you don't need the other one." instead of basically lying to their customers.


kubesolver said:


> Their cubes are almost perfect, and a lot of people don't believe that a major improvement in 3x3x3 area is possible nor it is necessary. Instead of making something stupid like trying to be creative and ruining a perfect product they make slight variations of the same thing. What a crime!?


I doubt that their cubes are almost perfect. In fact, their performance hasn't gotten any better since 2016 when the Air came out. In fact, I think that the SM was their peak. Every cube afterwards has the same locking issues the original Air series had but without the stability. The only reason why their cubes are useable is that you are able to use the yellow GES and they are too weak for a cube as flexible as the gan cubes. Have you ever tried a post SM cube with purple GES? Its basically like trying to cube with a block of jello. I would also love to see them make something "stupid" that may or may not be good because that at least shows that they care enough to make something different. Also by slight variation do you mean a core swap? Thats the only difference aside from magnets between modern gan cubes since they are all either X or XS cubes with a different core.


kubesolver said:


> Also complaining that they try to make money is also silly. Not only someone who makes a product people want to buy deserves to make money, but also you have no clue how much time and money they wasted in the labs for the products that didn't work. They work on products other than 3x3x3, but somehow can't release it. How many prototypes have went to trash? How many people are working on it? Where should the money for this come from?


Here, ill give an example of a rehash that was done CORRECTLY. The WRm is what a rehash should look like. Many people had a problem with the ridges on the GTS3, so they made a model without them since people were actually asking for it. Not only did they do that, but they also made the Dual Adjustmen system finer and included another set of springs for more customizability. If you went up to someone and said: "Hey, do you like your iPhone? Cool, buy this other one that has a different charging cable and no differences at all but we market it like its an entirely new product!" do you really think they would want that product? I think that the money should come from new innovations, something that gan hasn't been good at since the 356 Air and something they haven't done at all since the X.



kubesolver said:


> Research and production is gambling. You invest a lot of money into product and often lost everything if you fail or lose a lot if the product turns out to be unpopular. If you spawn a popular product you deserve to collect a jackpot.


I'm fine with them collecting the 3 jackpots they got from the original 354, X, and XS, but collecting 6 extra jackpots from the R, RS, M, Air M, Explorer 354, and X v2 is an issue. And I'm not sure how much money you have to invest to mix and match cores and hardware, I could do that for free, I'll just get an XS and put the core from the M in and boom, new gan cube! 

TLDR; most of your points have some truth to them, but you need to see behind the facade that GAN has put in front of their products to realize they haven't done anything new since the XS and don't deserve to be seen as the most innovative company anymore, I honestly think that ShengShou is doing a good job at innovating right now than Gan.


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## I'm A Cuber (Jun 17, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Well, I consider lying to your customers to be shady. That is a bit of a stretch though, but they have not said anything about the RS, M, or X v2 to have the same exact mechanism as the X. They also did the same thing by advertising the Air M as a completely new puzzle even though it's just an XS. I have a few problems with their 3x3's after the XS just being rehashes with no changes aside from the core and magnets, but I do have a problem when they don't tell you that its the same cube. Their marketing makes it look like they are all brand new and different puzzles and that's at least a little shady. I would be fine if they actually came out and said "Hey, The M is just the X, if you have one, you don't need the other one." instead of basically lying to their customers.
> 
> I doubt that their cubes are almost perfect. In fact, their performance hasn't gotten any better since 2016 when the Air came out. In fact, I think that the SM was their peak. Every cube afterwards has the same locking issues the original Air series had but without the stability. The only reason why their cubes are useable is that you are able to use the yellow GES and they are too weak for a cube as flexible as the gan cubes. Have you ever tried a post SM cube with purple GES? Its basically like trying to cube with a block of jello. I would also love to see them make something "stupid" that may or may not be good because that at least shows that they care enough to make something different. Also by slight variation do you mean a core swap? Thats the only difference aside from magnets between modern gan cubes since they are all either X or XS cubes with a different core.
> 
> ...


_You don’t need to buy them all. _They are doing a good job of giving people who want to buy a Gan cube lots of options. If their business model takes advantage of the consumer, then that is the consumer’s fault. Don’t blame Gan for the lack of research by the consumer


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 17, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> Don’t blame Gan for the lack of research by the consumer


You know what, I will. They are doing the worst job out of any cube company on making clear what products are what. When MoYu came out with the WRm it was _clear_ that it was just a GTS3 without ridges and with some small variations. When QiYi came out with their valk power it was _clear_ that it was a mere alternative to the original valk. When companies like Qiyi, YJ, Moyu, and Yuxin are as clear as they are about what puzzles are different from which it's inexcusable for GAN to keep tricking their customers into buying "New" puzzles for prices that are hard to justify for the product you are receiving. For me, and many others, the Air M was the last straw. Not only was it advertising itself as a new cube in the Air series, but it was also literally just an XS with capsule magnets instead of the adjustable ones. I'll stop blaming gan for a lack of research when they either actually inform their customers instead of selling them the same thing over and over again, or if they actually make a new puzzle that isn't a core swap of existing puzzles.

Also, by options do you mean 4 different cubes that are actually the same exact thing? Yeah, I love pseudo options.


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## SnowyDay (Jun 17, 2020)

Robot & 356i concepts are awesome. There is a lot of tough hardware, firmware, and cloud engineering to combine. This was an expensive and risky bet that can payoff big once the system is finalised. Gan is on V2 of both so the system is maturing.

I hope Gan the very best at getting these out of beta. They are very close.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Jun 17, 2020)

kubesolver said:


> Research and production is gambling. You invest a lot of money into product and often lost everything if you fail or lose a lot if the product turns out to be unpopular. If you spawn a popular product you deserve to collect a jackpot.


To an extent. GAN has pushed the envelope a bit too far on justifying high prices for their "premium" features. Alot of their business strategy just feels like a cash grab at this point. It seems similar to new phones coming out that really don't offer the consumer any drastically noticeable benefits even though the sticker price is considerably higher than market average.



Sub1Hour said:


> You know what, I will. They are doing the worst job out of any cube company on making clear what products are what. When MoYu came out with the WRm it was _clear_ that it was just a GTS3 without ridges and with some small variations. When QiYi came out with their valk power it was _clear_ that it was a mere alternative to the original valk. When companies like Qiyi, YJ, Moyu, and Yuxin are as clear as they are about what puzzles are different from which it's inexcusable for GAN to keep tricking their customers into buying "New" puzzles for prices that are hard to justify for the product you are receiving. For me, and many others, the Air M was the last straw. Not only was it advertising itself as a new cube in the Air series, but it was also literally just an XS with capsule magnets instead of the adjustable ones. I'll stop blaming gan for a lack of research when they either actually inform their customers instead of selling them the same thing over and over again, or if they actually make a new puzzle that isn't a core swap of existing puzzles.
> 
> Also, by options do you mean 4 different cubes that are actually the same exact thing? Yeah, I love pseudo options.


I generally agree with this. Given the transparency displayed by other cube manufactures it definitely doesn't make you feel like GAN is trying to truly benefit the general cubing population but just collect a higher price from those arrogant enough to need "THE BEST" hardware because they have the cash and the power of brand recognition and marketing has convinced them GAN is objectively the best when in fact it's still a subjective subject. Then there's those who genuinely want to purchase something high end and premium but don't have all the details and comparisons made, this group often feels dooped or underwhelmed given the $$$ they spent when the cube arrives. I definitely fall into the second category. 

Lets face it shopping for anything in the digital age is hard with so many options; it is nice as @Sub1Hour said that some manufactures are clear about their upgrades or differences between products and disappointing that GAN is not.


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## Sion (Jun 24, 2020)

Gan has a really good cube model admittedly. I have a gan X i use on and off as a main at many points. 

My issue with them comes from the fact that it's all the same product over and over again. There's nothing new. They act like every release is going to be something new and special, but it's really just a rehash of a design they've used since 2015. I understand it, and the fact they use the same mechanism over and over again is likely why they're recommended over and over again. However, a lot of the stuff they promote is just cool-looking add-ons, gadgets and gizmos onto the same puzzle. 


If you want my honest opinion, if you want a GAN, only get one. Practically every cube in the lineup has the exact same feeling, same corner cutting, and even the same catches (not meant to be facetious). Getting every new GAN product is honestly a waste of money if you're doing it for purposes other than collection.


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## alexiscubing (Jun 24, 2020)

They also just made a pyra prototype so more diversity?
i am hoping that the side events live up to the high standard of the 3x3s and mega


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## mukerflap (Jun 24, 2020)

they messed up the market and now everything costs more


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## Zain_A24 (Jun 24, 2020)

Had a skype chat with GAN earlier today and I personally like the direction they're heading over the next few months or so.


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## ProStar (Jun 24, 2020)

Zain_A24 said:


> Had a skype chat with GAN earlier today and I personally like the direction they're heading over the next few months or so.



Any spoilers


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## Zain_A24 (Jun 24, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Any spoilers


Unfortunately not.


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 24, 2020)

Zain_A24 said:


> Had a skype chat with GAN earlier today and I personally like the direction they're heading over the next few months or so.


I am actually going to lose it if they recycle 1 more cube model, the only way that I would be okay with GAN doing another rehash is if they actually put some ridges on their megaminx.


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## qwr (Jun 25, 2020)

GAN didn't get enough credit in their thread for investing in making a smartcube (no other major cube manufacturer has made one)

But I have to agree with a lot of cube reviewers in that flagship cube performance is so close that the decision to main a cube often comes down to feel and style now. That's probably why so many people will still main a Valk or Tengyun


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 25, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> Valk's are the best.


I switched back to my original Valk 3 M recently since I get the fastest LL times on it. I absolutely love how stable it is and It might even become my solo main instead of using it alongside my Valk Elite and Mystic WRm (I haven't had a single 3x3 main since my days with the GTS2). Its honestly a fantastic puzzle, even 4 years later. I'm also thinking about getting a Valk Power since my brother has a Thunderclap v3 and it's pretty nice, from what I have heard from speedcubers in my area the Power is like a more refined Thunderclap v3.

I know this post is very old but I think that it represents how a company like Qiyi can make cubes of similar quality that last without making them 50+ dollars.


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## Tabe (Jun 25, 2020)

mukerflap said:


> they messed up the market and now everything costs more


Not really. We have a $9 magnetic 3x3 with adjustable tensions and $6 magnetic 3x3s.


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## mukerflap (Jun 25, 2020)

Tabe said:


> Not really. We have a $9 magnetic 3x3 with adjustable tensions and $6 magnetic 3x3s.


those are budget cubes


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## I'm A Cuber (Jun 25, 2020)

Tabe said:


> Not really. We have a $9 magnetic 3x3 with adjustable tensions and $6 magnetic 3x3s.


Do you mean spring elasticity?


mukerflap said:


> those are budget cubes


And they preform just as well as flagships.


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 25, 2020)

mukerflap said:


> those are budget cubes


Like @I'm A Cuber said, these cubes perform at a flagship level. For crying out loud, the RS3 2020 is only 10 dollars and is the main of Yusheng Du! When 10$ cubes outperform 50$-60$ cubes to such an embarrassing degree things are going to have to change. From some videos I have seen recently from Cyoubx and TC, the community is fed up with GAN's antics and if they don't change things soon I can definitely see them becoming the next shengshou, but without the cool non-WCA puzzles. I mean people are already modding gan cubes to improve performance. If you need to mod something that is 10-20 dollars like the Volt v1 and YLM square-1 that's okay, they aren't perfect by any means and they don't advertise themselves to be perfect either like GAN does. Not to mention, square-1 has the worst hardware out of any event aside from clock since the first good square-1 came out around the same time as "Modern" hardware like the original Valk 3 and GTS1.

If you think I'm joking about modding GAN puzzles, I'm not. Here is a video of Cyoubx modding the XS to get rid of the stupid tensioning system in favor of the superior screw


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## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 25, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Like @I'm A Cuber said, these cubes perform at a flagship level. For crying out loud, the RS3 2020 is only 10 dollars and is the main of Yusheng Du! When 10$ cubes outperform 50$-60$ cubes to such an embarrassing degree things are going to have to change. From some videos I have seen recently from Cyoubx and TC, the community is fed up with GAN's antics and if they don't change things soon I can definitely see them becoming the next shengshou, but without the cool non-WCA puzzles. I mean people are already modding gan cubes to improve performance. If you need to mod something that is 10-20 dollars like the Volt v1 and YLM square-1 that's okay, they aren't perfect by any means and they don't advertise themselves to be perfect either like GAN does. Not to mention, square-1 has the worst hardware out of any event aside from clock since the first good square-1 came out around the same time as "Modern" hardware like the original Valk 3 and GTS1.
> 
> If you think I'm joking about modding GAN puzzles, I'm not. Here is a video of Cyoubx modding the XS to get rid of the stupid tensioning system in favor of the superior screw



My 354 with a WRM core and screws, Valk springs


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## kubesolver (Jun 25, 2020)

I would like to challenge the statement that gan is ruining the market with their super high prices. 

Actually they allow the competition to flourish. Imagine that gan would sell all their flagships for 6.99 usd. Tell me what other companies would feel that there is a sense to design and innovate in a market where there are already excellent products for almost nothing?


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 25, 2020)

kubesolver said:


> I would like to challenge the statement that gan is ruining the market with their super high prices.
> 
> Actually they allow the competition to flourish. Imagine that gan would sell all their flagships for 6.99 usd. Tell me what other companies would feel that there is a sense to design and innovate in a market where there are already excellent products for almost nothing?


I'm gonna bring up an example from Gaming that applies to this thinking

When the Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 were at their height, the online gaming scene first formed. All 3 of these consoles allowed for online play in a few of their games, but there is 1 major difference, Xbox Live was a paid service, while you could play online for free with the Gamecube and PS2. After the other companies saw that Xbox was making money off a service that cost next to nothing to produce(Like customizability) they realised it would be easy to make money off of this service. The PS4 required you to pay for online play, and recently the Switch requires a subscription service to play online. Back in the days of the Xbox and Xbox 360, they were the only company that required you to pay for their online service, and even then they didn't have the best performing servers by any means (like how gan doesn't outperform their competitors). If Microsoft decided to never launch the Xbox Live service, the chances of online play being free on the Switch and PS4 would be almost 100%.

I know that the comparisons aren't completely accurate, but they sure do paint a picture of what GAN has done to the market. But even now, we are still getting great prices on great cubes like the RS3 2020. If gan sold all their flagships at 6.99 USD, I think that the other companies wouldn't care as much as you think they would. GAN products are inferior in objective performance already, so it just makes sense that they should cost less. And I have already said before that GAN hasn't innovated for almost 2 years now, ever since the X they haven't done anything innovative that wasn't already done better by another manufacturer.


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## ProStar (Jun 25, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> I'm gonna bring up an example from Gaming that applies to this thinking
> 
> When the Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 were at their height, the online gaming scene first formed. All 3 of these consoles allowed for online play in a few of their games, but there is 1 major difference, Xbox Live was a paid service, while you could play online for free with the Gamecube and PS2. After the other companies saw that Xbox was making money off a service that cost next to nothing to produce(Like customizability) they realised it would be easy to make money off of this service. The PS4 required you to pay for online play, and recently the Switch requires a subscription service to play online. Back in the days of the Xbox and Xbox 360, they were the only company that required you to pay for their online service, and even then they didn't have the best performing servers by any means (like how gan doesn't outperform their competitors). If Microsoft decided to never launch the Xbox Live service, the chances of online play being free on the Switch and PS4 would be almost 100%.
> 
> I know that the comparisons aren't completely accurate, but they sure do paint a picture of what GAN has done to the market. But even now, we are still getting great prices on great cubes like the RS3 2020. If gan sold all their flagships at 6.99 USD, I think that the other companies wouldn't care as much as you think they would. GAN products are inferior in objective performance already, so it just makes sense that they should cost less. And I have already said before that GAN hasn't innovated for almost 2 years now, ever since the X they haven't done anything innovative that wasn't already done better by another manufacturer.



Gaming was huge way before that. Gaming was huge back before consoles were a thing


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 25, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Gaming was huge way before that. Gaming was huge back before consoles were a thing


I meant online gaming on consoles not gaming as a thing in general unless you mean something else that I didn't pick up on or something.


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## alexiscubing (Jun 26, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> View attachment 12699
> My 354 with a WRM core and screws, Valk springs


IM TRYING THAT RIGHT NOW


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## Sub1Hour (Jul 1, 2020)

Video from cubemaster talking about some stuff from gan and their future and I thought that it belongs here.


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## I'm A Cuber (Jul 2, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> You know what, I will. They are doing the worst job out of any cube company on making clear what products are what. When MoYu came out with the WRm it was _clear_ that it was just a GTS3 without ridges and with some small variations. When QiYi came out with their valk power it was _clear_ that it was a mere alternative to the original valk. When companies like Qiyi, YJ, Moyu, and Yuxin are as clear as they are about what puzzles are different from which it's inexcusable for GAN to keep tricking their customers into buying "New" puzzles for prices that are hard to justify for the product you are receiving. For me, and many others, the Air M was the last straw. Not only was it advertising itself as a new cube in the Air series, but it was also literally just an XS with capsule magnets instead of the adjustable ones. I'll stop blaming gan for a lack of research when they either actually inform their customers instead of selling them the same thing over and over again, or if they actually make a new puzzle that isn't a core swap of existing puzzles.
> 
> Also, by options do you mean 4 different cubes that are actually the same exact thing? Yeah, I love pseudo options.


I know this is an old post, but I want you to answer this and tell me if I’m just being silly or if I’m actually making a decent point here. For the average cuber, how much of the hype for the new Gan cubes comes from Gan marketing their products on platforms like Instagram, and how much of the hype comes from places like cube stores and cubing youtubers? I feel like back when I was a mere uneducated slow cuber who was not on these forums, wondering which cube was the best, I would go to TheCubicle’s website, and see on the homepage “awesome new cool different Cube from Gan, the Gan xs”,
Or I would type Gan xs reviews into YouTube and see all these YouTubers switching from the Gan x to the xs, as though it was a better and different cube. What I wouldn’t do is go to the Gan instagram page and see their latest post saying “brand new mechanisms with all new magnet adjustment system”. Am I the only one who feels like this? For your example with the Valk power, I don’t think that they marketed it as an “alternative.” The Valk power was the latest and greatest cube in the Valk line, and the only people who said otherwise were outside of qiyi as a company.


Spoiler: What I think is going on here



I think that Gan is paying off everybody reviewing their products to say that each cube is new and different. So I won’t be surprised if Cyoubx is murdered in the middle of the night by ninjas


Edit: wow that was longer than I meant it to be


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## Nmile7300 (Jul 2, 2020)

Your logic is sound until right about here:


I'm A Cuber said:


> Spoiler: What I think is going on here I think that Gan is paying off everybody reviewing their products to say that each cube is new and different. So I won’t be surprised if Cyoubx is murdered in the middle of the night by ninjas


I'm sorry, that is just ridiculous.


Also..


I'm A Cuber said:


> For your example with the Valk power, I don’t think that they marketed it as an “alternative.” The Valk power was the latest and greatest cube in the Valk line, and the only people who said otherwise were outside of qiyi as a company.


Actually they did market it as an alternative. If you go watch TheCubicle's Everyone Solves on it from back a few years ago, they say how it was not meant to replace the Valk.


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## ProStar (Jul 2, 2020)

Gan makes good cubes. They make great cubes, amazing cubes. No one can deny that(I'm sure that even someone like Kit Clement(who hates Gan cubes(and also Gan)) would say that they just don't fit his preference). The problem that people have with Gan is that almost all their recent cubes have been _very_ similar to each other. Gan doesn't make unique cubes. But their cubes are still good


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## Nmile7300 (Jul 2, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Gan makes good cubes. They make great cubes, amazing cubes. No one can deny that(I'm sure that even someone like Kit Clement(who hates Gan cubes(and also Gan)) would say that they just don't fit his preference). The problem that people have with Gan is that almost all their recent cubes have been _very_ similar to each other. Gan doesn't make unique cubes. But their cubes are still good


So basically they don't make good cubes, they make a good cube.


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## Owen Morrison (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> The Valk power was the latest and greatest cube in the Valk line,


I had both and the Valk 3 was significantly better.


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## Owen Morrison (Jul 2, 2020)

In one of speedcubing.org's recent videos, Daniel proves that all Gan cubes are basically the same by putting together a cube that uses pieces from the 5 most recent Gan 3x3s.


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## Sub1Hour (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> I know this is an old post, but I want you to answer this and tell me if I’m just being silly or if I’m actually making a decent point here. For the average cuber, how much of the hype for the new Gan cubes comes from Gan marketing their products on platforms like Instagram, and how much of the hype comes from places like cube stores and cubing youtubers? I feel like back when I was a mere uneducated slow cuber who was not on these forums, wondering which cube was the best, I would go to TheCubicle’s website, and see on the homepage “awesome new cool different Cube from Gan, the Gan xs”,


I would say that most of the hype comes from pre-orders being out on cube stores. I don't think that many cubers are old enough to have Instagram, and if they do have Instagram im not sure how much cubing they are looking for on there. I might just be weird but I never go on Instagram to see cubing stuff, I go there for athletics and stuff (probably because I prioritize athletics over cubing). I mean I was extremely hyped when I saw the RS3 2020 on TC for pre-order since I hadn't seen it anywhere else, and after looking at reviews it made me even more exited, but I don't see reviews first most of the time unless it was something like the valk elite where it was in development seemingly forever and it was a huge deal when testers got it. But I almost never buy a cube solely because I saw it listed at TC. The only time I did that was with the MGC 6x6 since my local vendor got it right as it came out and a comp happened to be the same day that they came in and since it was cheap, I got it (thats also the cube that made YJ my favorite company). But with stuff like GAN cubes, I saw the Air M promotion, got exited because I thought GAN was going to make something similar to the Air line of cubes that have superior stability to their modern cubes. Then I watched Dana's review and got upset that it was the same thing all over again. At least with the XS it was a little different from the X, so It's a better release from GAN even though it has many flaws.


I'm A Cuber said:


> Or I would type Gan xs reviews into YouTube and see all these YouTubers switching from the Gan x to the xs, as though it was a better and different cube. What I wouldn’t do is go to the Gan instagram page and see their latest post saying “brand new mechanisms with all new magnet adjustment system”. Am I the only one who feels like this? For your example with the Valk power, I don’t think that they marketed it as an “alternative.” The Valk power was the latest and greatest cube in the Valk line, and the only people who said otherwise were outside of qiyi as a company.


Again, I think that the XS was a better release from gan since it was different, but they only reason that they switched is that its different. The reason why no one that already had the X switch to the M, or people that had the XS switch to the Air M, is because they dont have a reason to, its just the same cube. The only reason I would see someone switching to the M or Air M from an X or XS is that their X/XS was dying and they wanted a replacement, and luckily for them, the M is an X and the Air M is an XS. Regarding the Valk Power, I think that Qiyi did imply that it was better, but they didn't do that to the degree that GAN did with the Air M and M. If Qiyi really wanted to say that the Valk Power was definitively better, then they wouldn't have made the Valk M that had a release that was more than a year later than the Valk Power. I also think that the community behind the Valk lineup was a little smarter in terms of knowledge on puzzle design. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people that main GAN cubes that have vast knowledge in cube design, but overall the users of the valk tend to have more experience and knowledge in cube design than GAN users. Valk users tend to be more experienced in cubing since they value stability and control instead of just pure conercutting and "Clout". That sounds kind of dumb, I know, but from the comps I have been to the faster people are the less likely the chance that they use a GAN puzzle. And since the Valk users don't main a cube for the release date or price, they just went off their own times and then chose weather to switch to the Valk Power or stay with the Valk.

Also, I hope that GAN doesn't "assassinate" Cyoubx since he is probably my favorite cubing youtube at the moment (I love your stuff bro). I actually think that your claim that GAN is paying off their sponsors isn't completely true, but I think there is a reason that many of their sponsorees switched to be with Rubik's. Maybe their sponsorees weren't being completely honest with us on their opinions and that could be the fault of either party but no matter who lied/bribed in that situation that defeats the purpose of sponsorship and makes the company disconnect from the community.



ProStar said:


> Gan makes good cubes. They make great cubes, amazing cubes. No one can deny that(I'm sure that even someone like Kit Clement(who hates Gan cubes(and also Gan)) would say that they just don't fit his preference). The problem that people have with Gan is that almost all their recent cubes have been _very_ similar to each other. Gan doesn't make unique cubes. But their cubes are still good



I can deny that they make Amazing cubes _*NOW, *_but in the past, they were definitely making amazing cubes. The problem with GAN is that their last big jump in hardware was going from the 356 S v2 to the 356 Air. Other companies either have superior products that don't need an upgrade to stay relevant, or they are making jumps in hardware from each model to the next. For example, The original valk doesn't need an upgrade to stay relevant, but people still have a great product in the Valk Elite and Valk Power, and all of them have seen wide usage in modern competitions. Moyu has also done a great job, especially in the jump from the GTS2 to the GTS3/WRm where the product was completely different from the last and both oof those cubes have also seen very wide use comparatively. Not to mention cubes like the Meilong M and RS3 2020 coming out in the last few weeks taking the community by storm for having puzzles that have performance par or better than cubes that are 6x the price. Gan, on the other hand, hasn't made their hardware perform much better than the original Air line of cubes. In fact I think that I could get better times on the Air SM than on the X, XS, or 354 despite them being much newer since their stability is awful.



Owen Morrison said:


> I had both and the Valk 3 was significantly better.


It was better for a lot of people, but there were still people that switched to the Power, and I can applaud Qiyi for making) 5 different puzzles that are competition viable in the MS, Valk, Valk Elite, Valk Power, and Wuwei (and also the Thunderclap v3 after a spring swap for a few people). Sure, Gan made 9 Puzzles that are competition viable, but they are all the same 2 cubes with a slight alteration in size, core, and magnets.


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## cyoubx (Jul 3, 2020)

> I actually think that your claim that GAN is paying off their sponsors isn't completely true



I'm not sure where you think I said this, but I'm sorry if I gave off that impression. That statement implies that sponsored cubers (myself included) have no integrity. It would be very irresponsible of me to suggest that.

The only video I can recall mentioning this at all is in a video I did with Phil where we talked about Gan cubes and sponsorship where I cite Feliks using the XS. My point was not to say that Feliks is being paid _off_, just that there's monetary incentive for him to use whatever is the flagship at the time. It's a bit pedantic, but saying whether someone is "paid" or "paid off" is very different. The latter implies using money to cover up a problem whereas the former just suggests that there is incentive to say good things about something, regardless of its quality. It's an important nuance in my opinion.


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## qwr (Jul 3, 2020)

GAN could not release a new speedcube for a year and still be in business because they get enough publicity from Max and Feliks. Cubes from last year or two years ago are still perfectly usable. I still use my Pro Shop GTS2 with no problem.


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## Sub1Hour (Jul 3, 2020)

cyoubx said:


> I'm not sure where you think I said this, but I'm sorry if I gave off that impression. That statement implies that sponsored cubers (myself included) have no integrity. It would be very irresponsible of me to suggest that.
> 
> The only video I can recall mentioning this at all is in a video I did with Phil where we talked about Gan cubes and sponsorship where I cite Feliks using the XS. My point was not to say that Feliks is being paid _off_, just that there's monetary incentive for him to use whatever is the flagship at the time. It's a bit pedantic, but saying whether someone is "paid" or "paid off" is very different. The latter implies using money to cover up a problem whereas the former just suggests that there is incentive to say good things about something, regardless of its quality. It's an important nuance in my opinion.


Sorry, I wasn't very clear with that statement. I was referring to this sentence from @I'm A Cuber


I'm A Cuber said:


> I think that Gan is paying off everybody reviewing their products to say that each cube is new and different


I don't think that this is true at face value, but I'm sure that GAN is coaxing their sponsorees to use their products in some capacity, even if they are inferior. For example, I don't think that Rami Sbahi thinks that the 251 is the best on the market, but he uses it anyway even though the MGC Elite or Valk have a high likelihood of being better for him.


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## ketchupcuber (Jul 3, 2020)

Feliks has said many times that he uses gans cube by choice and for those of you that dont remember feliks was once asked to be sponsored from moyu but refused because he liked gan more also there are many people who use the xs by choice eg one of the most respected cubing youtubers J perm


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## PetrusQuber (Jul 3, 2020)

ketchupcuber said:


> Feliks has said many times that he uses gans cube by choice and for those of you that dont remember feliks was once asked to be sponsored from moyu but refused because he liked gan more also there are many people who use the xs by choice eg one of the most respected cubing youtubers J perm


He didn’t choose Moyu because they kind of used him when he got the WR on one of their cubes a while back.


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## kubesolver (Jul 3, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> He didn’t choose Moyu because they kind of used him when he got the WR on one of their cubes a while back.


Speaking of that. It was more evil and unenthical than anything gan has ever done by a magnitude.


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## PetrusQuber (Jul 3, 2020)

kubesolver said:


> Speaking of that. It was more evil and unenthical than anything gan has ever done by a magnitude.


Though not saying it was evil and unethical, just more


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## I'm A Cuber (Jul 3, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Sorry, I wasn't very clear with that statement. I was referring to this sentence from @I'm A Cuber
> 
> I don't think that this is true at face value, but I'm sure that GAN is coaxing their sponsorees to use their products in some capacity, even if they are inferior. For example, I don't think that Rami Sbahi thinks that the 251 is the best on the market, but he uses it anyway even though the MGC Elite or Valk have a high likelihood of being better for him.


lol I was 99% joking


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## Sub1Hour (Sep 7, 2020)

Now with the Gan 11 coming out, I'm wondering if GAN will actually make something unique for the first time in 2 years. Has there been any mech leaks?


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## HaHaHaHeeHeeHee (Sep 7, 2020)

other than primary internals nothing I'm aware of


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## Sion (Sep 7, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Now with the Gan 11 coming out, I'm wondering if GAN will actually make something unique for the first time in 2 years. Has there been any mech leaks?




the cubie shape is the same. It's just another assembly change to make the cube itself lighter and the core magnets. GAN changes its designs, just not where it's that visible.


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## Sub1Hour (Sep 7, 2020)

Sion said:


> GAN changes its designs, just not where it's that visible.


That's true, but I would dare to ask if they change their designs to where it matters.


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## SpeedyCube (Sep 7, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> In one of speedcubing.org's recent videos, Daniel proves that all Gan cubes are basically the same by putting together a cube that uses pieces from the 5 most recent Gan 3x3s.



Replying to the July 1, 2020 post. Sorry, this is a bit late, I just saw this. My job is basically fixing really complex items (I’m purposefully not being more detailed for security reasons). Putting parts from one thing into another does not make something “basically the same;” it means the two items are similar and their parts compatible — which makes sense. The same designer does, in most cases, make similar designs between products. Think break pads for cars, or computer parts. Often interchangeable but not necessarily the same.

As relates to this discussion, I think it’s fair to say that Gan cubes are similar. Maybe too similar to be sold as separate models, maybe not. The company doesn’t think so. Personally, I think as long as there is a difference in design, it works to sell them as different models. How much difference should there be? That’s up to the market to decide.

And the price? Business-wise, as much as the market will bear. If the market will bear $60 for a cube with minimum difference from the last model, so be it. But if we (the market) will only bear $30 for a cube with minimal differences in design, Gan will have to acknowledge that if they want to stay open. Ultimately, it’s up to us to decide how much is too much for a Gan cube.


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## Cheersbigears (Sep 29, 2020)

Price isnt always just what people will pay. It has to ensure a profit for GAN. Bear in mind its not only the cheap plastic and magnets. Gan also have to cover research and development which they seem to do more than others, say with customisation and the 356i. 

Admittedly this should only make them slightly More expensive than the competition as they also need research and development.

After research and development, Gan make decisions on which ideas go forward. They seem to be the brand who are least price driven in these decisions, they regularly bring out complicated cubes with new components, that other brands might leave on the drawing board to ensure they can hit a price point. None of these decisions necessary mean Gans R and D is better, just that the way the make decisions means their cubes are likely to be more expensive.

Additionally we need to consider marketing. Gan seem to spend significantly more sponsoring cubers, competitions, you tubers etc etc. All that costs money and the only way they can do that is by including it in the cost of a cube. 

Its a pretty standard business model. And it might make you feel better (or worse!) to know that buying a gan cube is also supporting people they support like Max and Feliks, and the events they support, like the world cups.

This also means alot of what you pay isn't going into increasing the quality of the cube you're buying!


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## brododragon (Oct 1, 2020)

Cheersbigears said:


> Price isnt always just what people will pay. It has to ensure a profit for GAN. Bear in mind its not only the cheap plastic and magnets. Gan also have to cover research and development which they seem to do more than others, say with customisation and the 356i.
> 
> Admittedly this should only make them slightly More expensive than the competition as they also need research and development.
> 
> ...


I think the real problem _is_ the buisness model. They put a lot of bells and whistles most people aren't going to use to the fill potential.


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## BenChristman1 (May 4, 2021)

A few month bump, but I wanted to add this. A couple things that I want to say before I start:

- All prices stated here are in USD.
- The phones that are compared here have very similar specs.

There are a lot of people who compare Gan to Apple (the tech company, in case you didn’t know). This is 100% false in my opinion. These people look at Gan as a company alone, but I think that it should be compared to other cube companies.



Spoiler: Phone Comparisons



Apple’s current flagship phone, the iPhone 12, costs $700. Let’s compare that to Samsung’s flagship, the Samsung Galaxy S21, which costs $800.

Now, let’s go up to each company’s most premium phone. In Apple’s case, this is the iPhone 12 Pro Max, which comes in at $1,100. For Samsung, this is the Galaxy S21 Ultra, which costs $1,200.

Now for budget phones. Apple’s current budget phone, the iPhone SE costs $400. Samsung’s, the Galaxy A21, costs $250.



What does all of this phone comparison have to do with Gan? Well, this proves that Gan is not the “Apple of cubing,” because of the prices. I’m now going to compare Gan’s flagship and budget cubes to Qiyi and Moyu’s flagship and budget cubes.



Spoiler: Cube Comparisons



Gan’s flagship cube, the 11 M Pro, costs $65. Qiyi’s flagship, the Valk 3 Elite M costs $45. Moyu’s flagship, the Weilong WRM 2020, costs $30.

Now for budget cubes, I’ll be using the cheapest magnetic cube from each company. Gan’s budget cube, the 356 M Lite costs $27. Qiyi has the MS, which costs $8. Moyu has the MF3RS3M 2020, which costs $9, and has a dual adjustment system, which neither of the other two have.



My point here is that Apple actually isn’t the most expensive phone company, which means that Gan can’t be compared to Apple by price and by comparing it to other companies. Samsung’s flagship and premium phones outprice Apple’s by $100. Samsung has a much cheaper budget phone, however.

Now, if you look at the cube comparisons, Gan is by far more expensive than the other two companies, with both flagships and budget cubes.

I also don’t think that you can compare any of these cube companies to either of these phone companies. Samsung has a much wider range of prices than Apple (because I didn’t even include the folding and flipping phones in the comparison, which cost $1,800 and $1,200, respectively). This means that Apple’s price range is about $700, and Samsung’s is $1,550.

People say that Gan is the Apple of cubing because of their high prices, but realistically, Samsung’s phones are actually more expensive than Apple’s. This is why I don’t think that this is a very accurate comparison. I see how people may think that because of Gan’s box, which seems to mimic Apple, and their high-quality products, but that isn’t looking super deep.

I’m sure that I could do even more of an in-depth comparison if I wanted to, but I have to go right now, so I might update this post or make a new one later. Thanks to those of you who read the whole thing and made it all the way to the end!


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## PikachuPlayz_MC (May 5, 2021)

I honestly just like gan cause it can customize to suit my fancy at the moment, and the cube feels so different when I change the magnets and springs.


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## AlgoCuber (May 5, 2021)

Pros
1. The performance is good, and one might argue that is the best
2. Gan has come up with a lot of innovative ideas, including GES, honeycomb tracks, and black internals
3. Gan's quality is superior, and there is little leniency in the manufacturing
4. Their cubes have a lot of customization, including adjustable magnets, spring compression, and regular old tensioning
5. Gan cubes are very lightweight, nowadays hovering around 60-70 grams

Cons
1. Pricing. They have only high-end and expensive cubes that are absolutely not for people on a budget, like me. Other cubes perform around the same, or even better, at a much lower price range. For example, you could a get a WR M 2020, GTS 3 M, Tengyun V2 M, MsCube, or maybe even the RS3 M 2020 if you like it that much. They all have a spring compression system, and some have a magnet adjustment system. So I don't see myself getting a Gan cube soon.
2. You could say some of the same things about how good Gan is with other cube brands too. Gan is not the only brand that has these good qualities.

Conclusion: If you think that you can handle the price of a Gan cube, go for it. There's nothing wrong with that. They have a lot of good qualities. But if you're willing to save money to, say, buy more lube, you can buy other flagships at a lower price. That is why I personally don't have any Gan cubes.


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## Zain_A24 (May 5, 2021)

I can't remember if I've ever written anything about GAN in this thread. If not then I'll likely share my 2 cents having been a "GAN Insider" for quite a while, as well as having used their cubes for the majority of my cubing progression. I might also share a few hints on their future plans here and there if I get time. If not, then someone feel free to remind me, will be an interesting article to write and I'm sure it'll be quite interesting to read.


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## JohnnyReggae (May 5, 2021)

AlgoCuber said:


> Pros
> 1. The performance is good, and one might argue that is the best
> 2. Gan has come up with a lot of innovative ideas, including GES, honeycomb tracks, and black internals
> 3. Gan's quality is superior, and there is little leniency in the manufacturing
> ...


I agree with you on your points. I'd also like to add the "Feel" of the cube as a particular Pro. Well for me anyway. GAN has always had a different feel, which has been polarising. But I've always been on the side of enjoying the feel.

The price is the biggest drawback, but I do believe that GAN is a quality product.

Oh and lastly, seeing as you mentioned the RS3M 2020 .... that IMO is the most over-hyped and over-rated cube ... but that is a discussion for another thread somewhere


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## PikachuPlayz_MC (May 5, 2021)

AlgoCuber said:


> Pros
> 1. The performance is good, and one might argue that is the best
> 2. Gan has come up with a lot of innovative ideas, including GES, honeycomb tracks, and black internals
> 3. Gan's quality is superior, and there is little leniency in the manufacturing
> ...


personally I love the Moyu wailing GTS 1 the most and have stayed loyal to it, but the gan is just another great cube to have in your collection.


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## AlgoCuber (May 5, 2021)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Oh and lastly, seeing as you mentioned the RS3M 2020 .... that IMO is the most over-hyped and over-rated cube ... but that is a discussion for another thread somewhere


I think it is a little overhyped and not a flagship competitor, but other people may not think that way so that's why I added that.


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## Kaiju_cube (May 5, 2021)

I love Gan cubes and have a bunch of them, but they are almost ridiculously expensive at times. I paid over $50 for their 4x4 and I'm still not sure why, it's not any better or worse than a lot of other 4x4's I have that cost a lot less. I got the Gan Megaminx and a week later got the DaYan megaminx and they're almost identical. They feel almost exactly the same. Same colors, same size, same smooth crisp turning.

So sometimes I think I'm paying a lot for the name Gan on the box.

I think the 356 M Lite for around $30. is their best cube, and I have the 11 M Pro, the XS, the Air,.. I have a bunch of them, probably a dozen Gan 3x3's. But the 356 Lite just seems to be the best overall for me. it's fast and controllable, it doesn't deform as easily as some of the others (I don't like how some of them are 'squishier' than others, I don't like squishy). Yeah you can't adjust the magnets but I rarely do that anyway. it's fine as it is out of the box. And you can get them with white or black internals which is pretty neat. I've bought 3 of them. One white, one black, and one that I gave to a friend. I feel like that $30. price point for the 356 M Lite is really about the most I want to spend for a Gan. But of course I have ended up giving into hype and spending more than that. But if a friend was insistent that he wanted to buy a Gan I'd suggest the 356 M Lite. I just don't think the 11 M Pro is '_so much better!!!!'_ that it's worth over twice the price. And I actually don't much like the edge magnets on the 11 M Pro. Once you push them all the way to the right or left it's very hard to move them away from the side. You have to sort of dig into the plastic with the edge of a screwdriver to get any purchase to move the magnet switch. I found the magnet system on the earlier cubes to be easier to deal with. Though the core magnets are a neat new feature. But I preferred the edge magnets on the 356 XS line. They were just easier to adjust for me, easier to slide. Once I adjusted the edge magnets on the 11 M Pro to be not in the middle position it was very difficult to move them again since they're flush with the face of the plastic, it's hard to get any grip on them to move them.



these in the 356 XS for me are a lot easier to adjust and imho a superior design for simplicities sake..



those edges with the 11 M Pro magnetic core would be neat. ..... maybe I'll disassemble my cubes and see if I can frankenstein one together. I but you probably could do that. 

but I also like MoYu, Qiyi, DaYan, Shengshou, MGC,.. they all make very good cubes.

I thought about getting the new Gan Duo, and I probably will, but I'll wait a while. I just picked up another 356 Lite and ordered the new DaYan Zhangchi Pro M in green.

Really the only Gan I still want is a purple K'un one, but they're sold out.

Can't really imagine what more they can do with cubes at this point to keep increasing the technology and prices. It's kind of nuts you can get a very good cube like the RSM3 for $9. and then there's the 11 M Pro for $65.

Honestly I think paying ($56. plus shipping?) for the 4x4 sort of left me disappointed and really got me to start wondering why I'm paying so much for a Gan cube when DaYan and others make absolutely fantastic cubes for a lot less.

my favorite 4x4 is probably my Shengshou Mr. M and it cost like $12. .... it makes me wonder why I thought a Gan 4x4 would be so much better? And the stickers on that one are really thick, I feel the edges of the stickers when I'm solving and it's a weird 'paper cut' feeling when doing turns.

idk, Gan is really really good and I like their cubes but I'm increasingly getting tired of paying Gan prices when there are just so many other options out there that are fantastic alternatives.


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## BenChristman1 (Jun 24, 2021)

@Sub1Hour just gonna put my response here.



Sub1Hour said:


> Don't say it don't say it don't say it don't say it
> 
> Okay, I'm gonna say it.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to say that I agree completely. From my limited experience with Gan cubes, I really like the cubes themselves. They are very soft, smooth, and quiet, similar to my main, the Tengyun v2. I think that the main two issues that lie with the cubes is the company itself.

The pricing is one of them. If all of their cubes were $10-$20 cheaper, I wouldn’t have an issue. Gan is usually the first one to make new cubing “innovations” (even though some of them aren’t very innovative). Anybody can go compare the prices of the XS (not the 11, because I think that the corner-core magnets are unique, and can’t be compared to any other cube yet), the Valk Elite, the Tengyun v2, and any other cube that has a dual-adjustment core as well as adjustable magnets. You’re getting the exact same thing as far as features go. It might not be the feeling that you’re looking for, but you also shouldn’t have to pay $15 extra to get a feeling that you prefer.

The second issue, as you just stated, is their marketing. They should bluntly say something along the lines of “Hey, the M is basically the X without adjustable magnets, and the Air M is basically the XS without adjustable magnets.” If they made that more clear in their marketing, then I wouldn’t have an issue with it. It’s perfectly okay to have different tiers of products. Lots of companies in many different markets do it, and they make it clear that something is a budget version of something else. A good example is the technology industry.


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## qwr (Jun 25, 2021)

After trying it, I think the 356 M is the only one I can recommend as worth the money. Still not budget but in line with other manufacturers' flagships.

I'm gonna make a video review on it because I find it so satisfying to turn. More of a dry smoothness than my Tengyun v1.


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