# Already Existing Concept/Method Thread



## guitardude7241 (Aug 3, 2009)

Upon thinking how often already thought-of concepts would be brought up in the other topic(New Concept/Method Thread), I thought posting already existing concepts/methods here would be a good idea.

Ex. ZOMG I JUST INVINTID A NEW MEATHOD!!!1!!1

Sorry, that idea has been around for months.

So that ^^ wouldn't happen. Could everyone help out and post those already existing concepts/methods? I'll edit them into this post, and hopefully, in time, there'll be a big long list right here for anybody who wants to possibly switch to a new method, or just see what has been thought of. Also, if anybody helping out could provide links to a tutorial to that concept/method, whether it be video or text, please post the link like this.

Fridrich F2L tutorial part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-xbcAMfWwM&feature=related

part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GxLM_dZqg4&feature=channel

I'll also edit those to this post. Thanks everyone!

Yes, I *AM* aware there is a database of most of this in the wiki. Alot of those links are outdated. Some links aren't even there. Might as well put them here.

*Method List*

*Layer-by-Layer*

-badmephisto's Beginner Tutorial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=609nhVzg-5Q&feature=channel_page

*Fridrich/Fridrich Variants*

-Erik's Tutorial
http://erikku.er.funpic.org/rubik/Fridrich.html

-badmephisto's Fridrich F2L tutorial part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-xbcAMfWwM&feature=related
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GxLM_dZqg4&feature=channel

-F2L Variations
--AvG's Keyhole Method Tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ-qIyScA5o

-ZZ Method(somewhat similar to Fridrich, as far as cross/F2L slots you fill in)
--Michal Hordecki's description
http://www.emsee.110mb.com/Speedcubing/ZZ speedcubing system.html
--ZZ Tutorial(Text)
http://cube.crider.co.uk/

-XG (Extreme Garron)

--(Forum containing the info about XG)
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14877

*Petrus*(Blockbuilding)

--Lars Petrus' Tutorial
http://lar5.com/cube/

--Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeC3JUbDcL0&feature=channel_page
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU6ZzTvLzHE&feature=related
(Says it's part 4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inF9Qbykbbo&feature=related

--Bad Edges
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Psv_7Nnfc&feature=related

-EJF2L

--Overview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yn1wLkC1eI

--Examples
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivpo1h5K7Ak&feature=channel

--Cases
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR2K3Xq6ux8&feature=channel

*Roux*(Blockbuilding)

--Gilles Roux's Tutorial
http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Intro.html
--Waffle's Roux Tutorial
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIHw7nPjLmY
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLViKnfJopQ
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-YDVEjRhHQ
Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGfCGqjcIEw
Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-tuh1fMB2o
Part 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nUuUc1l1kk
Part 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELOkmCFSn0o

*Waterman*(corners first)

--Marc Waterman's Tutorial
http://rubikscube.info/waterman/

*Ortega*(corners first)

--Text
http://rubikscube.info/ortega.php

*Heise*(Blockbuilding)

--Ryan Heise's Tutorial
http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/

*Last Layer Systems*

-OLL
--2-Look OLL Tutorial (Lance The Blue Knight's)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i92TfwcSJgw

--OLL Algorithm List
http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/OLL
http://www.cubewhiz.com/oll.html

-PLL
--2-Look PLL Tutorial (Lance The Blue Knight's)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4pkkB5yMHE
--badmephisto's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S61q3FYVFis

-COLL
--Jason Baum's
http://jmbaum.110mb.com/coll.htm
--Bob Burton's
http://cubewhiz.com/coll.html
--Gilles Roux's
http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Step_3.html
--Waffle's Video Sets
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F5DF15566E1BE366&annotation_id=annotation_736983&feature=iv

-CMLL
----Thom Barlow's
http://www.nytelyte.com/cmll/

-CLL/ELL
--CLL/ELL Tutorial
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH2kK9Wg9d8&feature=related
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-kuQ0QnDII&annotation_id=annotation_540678&feature=iv
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qcvPJ8U__8

*Sub-Step Methods*

-MGLS
--Lucas Garron's MGLS
http://cube.garron.us/MGLS/

-ZB

--ZBLL

--Jason Baum's
http://jmbaum.110mb.com/zbll.htm

--ZBF2L

--Jason Baum's
http://jmbaum.110mb.com/zbf2l.htm

-VH

--VH tutorial(theWestonian's)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQEMporZhD8

-Winter Variation/F2LL

--(theWestonian's)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2uIqju7ZJo

--Page of Algorithms
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/absolutemind/f2ll-angl.htm

-JTLE

--Explaining JTLE
http://algobase.110mb.com/JTLE.html

*Blindfold Methods*

-M2/R2

--(Stefan Pochmann's[text])
http://www.stefan-pochmann.de/spocc/blindsolving/M2R2/

--(Eric Limeback's)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_iHsQ045EM&feature=related

-Old Pochmann

--Stefan Pochmann's(text)
http://www.stefan-pochmann.de/spocc/...ng/3x3/old.php

-Eric Limeback's Full Tutorial

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncpkVvIEcKc&feature=channel
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EUWjI4sYbA&feature=related
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_iHsQ045EM&feature=related
Part 3.5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cL6ZYtmeXU&feature=related
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cL6ZYtmeXU&feature=related
Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3dh8TuYu8&feature=related

*Misc./Unexplored 3x3 Methods*

Lars Nielsson's Orient Firs](text)
http://www.speedcubing.dk/index.php...st-method&catid=40:advanced&Itemid=58Nielsson

David J. Salvia's(text)
http://www.speedcubing.com/DavidJSalvia.html

The Human Thistlethwaite Algorithm(Yes, odd name. [text])
http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/human_thistlethwaite_algorithm.html

Triangular Francisco Method

--Thread Explaining TF
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11896

--Alg Set for Step 3 of TF
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~dlli/NewAlgSet.html
Big Cube Methods

Tripod(Blockbuilding)

--Main Method Overview(text)
http://web.mac.com/teisenmann/Tripod/main.html

--Last 5 Cubies Algorithms(text)
http://www.ws.binghamton.edu/fridrich/L1/ece.htm

*2x2 Methods*

*Guimond*

-Thrawst's Tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pChtsvCk31o

*Ortega*
-rubixgod's Tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZKjGyxVX2I

*Big Cubes Methods*

-Cage

--Jonowl's Tutorial(One of 2 found, this seems to be better than the other.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41VccPFNNvw

-Reduction

--http://bigcubes.com/ (in text)

--4x4(Lance The Blue Knight's)

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSvP2JIPhwo

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M3wS91Odzo&feature=related

--5x5(Lance The Blue Knight's)

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQhlj4SZGTo&feature=related

Part 2a - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ0ylGxcsmk&feature=channel

Part 2b - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v_y52rmV4o&feature=channel

-K4

--(Thom Barlow's[text])
http://rxdeath.com/k4/

*Misc.*

--Bigger Cubes Centers Tips

--(Lance The Blue Knight's)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jSkk4pNo4&feature=fvw

--(Leviskatyboard's)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwxYWKrDQmY


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## PatrickJameson (Aug 4, 2009)

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Category:3x3x3_methods


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## JLarsen (Aug 4, 2009)

Finishing Roux / Petrus without bad edges and full OLL PLL has been thought of before. Sorry to let you down, no go learn bad edges you pansy.


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## waffle=ijm (Aug 4, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Finishing Roux / Petrus without bad edges and full OLL PLL has been thought of before. Sorry to let you down, no go learn bad edges you pansy.



WHY DOES BAD EDGES SCARE THE HELL OUT OF PEOPLE? they're so easy learn.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 4, 2009)

waffle=ijm said:


> WHY DOES BAD EDGES SCARE THE HELL OUT OF PEOPLE? they're so easy learn.



Took me about 8 minutes to understand what to do, about 20 minutes to memorize the sequences. It was real easy stuff when you just sit down, and learn it.


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## anythingtwisty (Aug 4, 2009)

Even I can do bad edges!


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## guitardude7241 (Aug 4, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Finishing Roux / Petrus without bad edges and full OLL PLL has been thought of before. Sorry to let you down, no go learn bad edges you pansy.


If you were talking to me, I'm doing this in parts. Not all at once, I couldn't take that. Also, I do know how to do bad edges. They're easy.


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## Ellis (Aug 4, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> Yes, I *AM* aware there is a database of all this in the wiki. Alot of those links are outdated. Some links aren't even there. Might as well put them here.



You mean put them in the wiki, right? That's what the wiki is for.


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## guitardude7241 (Aug 4, 2009)

Ellis said:


> guitardude7241 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I *AM* aware there is a database of all this in the wiki. Alot of those links are outdated. Some links aren't even there. Might as well put them here.
> ...


Sorry about that. Then if that's what the wiki's for, then how come there's the comparison of most all of the 3x3's in the hardware section? It's stickied, by pentrixter.


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## JLarsen (Aug 4, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> Sn3kyPandaMan said:
> 
> 
> > Finishing Roux / Petrus without bad edges and full OLL PLL has been thought of before. Sorry to let you down, no go learn bad edges you pansy.
> ...



This was directed towards beginner's who may click on this thread in the future to see if someone has made a petrus/roux /fridrich hybrid before. It is so damn common these days. 

@Waffle

Roux edges are hard for me to understand actually. I've tried to fully understand them before but they're not quite as intuitive as Petrus edges.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 4, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Roux edges are hard for me to understand actually. I've tried to fully understand them before but they're not quite as intuitive as Petrus edges.



Each edge has either a U or a D sticker on it. If the D or U center is on U, you want all of the edges to have there U or D sticker facing U or D. 

Example: if your using white on U and yellow on D, you want all of the stickers on U and D to be yellow and white.

Here is an example of unoriented edges. This is after orientation.


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## Lucas Garron (Aug 4, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> -COLL
> --Jason Baum's
> http://jmbaum.110mb.com/coll.htm
> --Bob Burton's
> ...


COLL ≠ CMLL



guitardude7241 said:


> -MGLS
> --CLS Algorithms(Lucas Garron's site)
> http://cube.garron.us/MGLS/I.htm


Any good reason you don't link to the main page?


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## guitardude7241 (Aug 4, 2009)

Lucas Garron said:


> guitardude7241 said:
> 
> 
> > -COLL
> ...



Fixed Thom's CMLL page, put it under CMLL; Put your main page up for MGLS. Any better?


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## Ellis (Aug 4, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> Fixed Thom's CMLL page, put it under CMLL



But left roux's? I still don't understand the point of this thread.


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## blade740 (Aug 4, 2009)

This thread isn't going to do ANY good, because you're listing methods by their names. Nobody's going to think "hey, I should just use a method called MGLS"


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## guitardude7241 (Aug 4, 2009)

I'm not close to being finished yet, I wasn't planning on listing them by their names once I'm done either. I'd estimate I'll be done in a few days, no more than a week.


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## waffle=ijm (Aug 4, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> @Waffle
> 
> Roux edges are hard for me to understand actually. I've tried to fully understand them before but they're not quite as intuitive as Petrus edges.



Keep the center on top be either the U or D center. any edge on around that center that is NOT that color or the opposite color is bad. same goes with the center on D.

Adjust the U or rotate the cube to fit these cases

if the bad edges are:
1) UL/UR/DF/DB
2)UL/UR/UF/UB
then do M'U2M'
this is will go into another case


if the bad edges are:
1)UL/UB/DF/DB
then do M2
this is will go into another case

if the bad edges are:
1)UF/DB
2)UF/UB
3)DF/DB
4)UL/UR/UF/DF***
5)all six are wrong
then do M'UM'
keep looking for the case after you do the moves. until you reach the one with the ***. after doing the move all edges will be oriented

it's repetitive and easy to do


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## Michiel van der Blonk (Aug 5, 2009)

I've got my LBL method on http://vanderblonk.com/tutorial. Soon to add another method with more block building and 5 corners last.


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## GuyWithFunnyHat (Aug 5, 2009)

Why is ZZ listed as a Fridrich variant?


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## Johannes91 (Aug 5, 2009)

GuyWithFunnyHat said:


> Why is ZZ listed as a Fridrich variant?


Probably because some noobs think you're supposed to solve cross after EOLine. As stupid as it is, if you do that, it is basically a Fridrich variant.

[off-topic]You probably like this: http://www.google.com/search?q=recursion.[/off-topic]


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## Cride5 (Aug 6, 2009)

Lol, nice to see the Google geeks at it again 

Looks like wikipedia are in on it too.


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## GuyWithFunnyHat (Aug 6, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> [off-topic]You probably like this: http://www.google.com/search?q=recursion.[/off-topic]



Hah. I love google's humor.


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## guitardude7241 (Aug 24, 2009)

Bump. Because this topic already has alot of links.


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## krazedkat (Aug 24, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> First post...



Can you add the Petro method?


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## Cride5 (Aug 24, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> -ZZ Method(somewhat similar to Fridrich, as far as *cross/F2L slots* you fill in)



ZZ does not use a cross. The first step (EOLine) is orientation of all 12 edges, and placement of two down-face edges (DF and DB). The F2L stage involves blockbuilding two 1x2x3 sides (in a similar manner to the first step of Roux). Unlike Roux, however, edges are already oriented and only R, U and L moves are required. Doing EOCross followed by CE pairs is a ZZ-Fridrich hybrid, its not ZZ, and is certainly less efficient.


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## Lucas Garron (Aug 24, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> guitardude7241 said:
> 
> 
> > First post...
> ...


Can you also add the XG method?


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## guitardude7241 (Aug 24, 2009)

Lucas Garron said:


> krazedkat said:
> 
> 
> > guitardude7241 said:
> ...



Petro seems ineffecient. Were you serious about the XG?


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## Lucas Garron (Aug 24, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> Lucas Garron said:
> 
> 
> > krazedkat said:
> ...


Since when is effeciency a criterion to be considered a concept/method?
And yes, I'm serious.


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## guitardude7241 (Aug 25, 2009)

Lucas Garron said:


> guitardude7241 said:
> 
> 
> > Lucas Garron said:
> ...



Technically, efficiency isn't a criterion to be considered a method. But then again, I could make a tutorial on how to solve the cube only by using a J perm, and call it an already exsisting concept. Would that concept really have any use? This is for semi-useful concepts/methods. Link to XG thread please?


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## Lucas Garron (Aug 25, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> Technically, efficiency isn't a criterion to be considered a method. But then again, I could make a tutorial on how to solve the cube only by using a J perm, and call it an already exsisting concept. Would that concept really have any use? This is for semi-useful concepts/methods. Link to XG thread please?


Yes, J-perm-only can be used in FMC. 

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14877
Anyhow, have fun deciding what's useful.


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## rachmaninovian (Aug 25, 2009)

please put sandwich as a variation!


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## krazedkat (Aug 26, 2009)

Could you add the Petro method to that list. Its edges first...


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## Lucas Garron (Aug 26, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Could you add the Petro method to that list. Its edges first...


Good idea. Also make sure to add XG as a Fridrich variant.


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## krazedkat (Aug 26, 2009)

And what is sanwich exactly?


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## krazedkat (Aug 26, 2009)

Guitardude. that was out of line. English is my 3rd language! My first is Slovak and second is Czech...


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## Lucas Garron (Aug 26, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> -XG (Extreme Garron)


That's incorrect. XG stands for "Xtreme-Garron"


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## krazedkat (Aug 26, 2009)

I still don't see the Petro Method...


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## fanwuq (Aug 27, 2009)

Pyraminx:
FP (face permute)
WO (Odder's method)
LBL
Patterson (Oka)

3x3 BLD:
M2 variant: Deadalnix
R2 variant: Freestyle for Dummies

Big cubes:
Oxidation

2x2:
SS
EG


Edit:
Oxidation doesn't exist yet... maybe?
This list is ridiculous. Don't we already have this in the wiki?


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## Paul Wagner (Aug 27, 2009)

New F2L method based off of Fridrich.

Step 1. Cross
Step 2. Insert E layer edges.
Step 3. Solve three corner/edge pairs.
Step 4. Orient U layer edges.
Step 5. MGLS/ Insert fourth edge
^ ^
Step 6. PLL Step 6.OLL
Step 7. PLL


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## Cride5 (Aug 27, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Pyraminx:
> FP (face permute)


Lol, didn't you mean :fp ...that's me used up my month's quota 



fanwuq said:


> This list is ridiculous. Don't we already have this in the wiki?



If it isn't already, it deffo should be. I was going to do some method edits on the wiki, but the Front page really needs re-structuring. There's:
*3x3x3 Methods -> Beginner's Methods*
and..
*Common Methods -> Basic method* (with the same stuff!)
Experimental methods
etc, etc.

It really needs tidying up.

Methods-wise, I was thinking we should probably have a single page with a table containing ALL methods ever discussed. I'm happy to go ahead and implement this, but I'd like to discuss it with some more senior members before-hand. If any of the older WIKI'ers are interested could you PM me?

EDIT: The Wiki now hosts a complete list of methods here. Feel free to add to it


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## V-te (Sep 27, 2009)

Sorry to bump, but I have a question before I make an entire new thread on it. 
What if, Once we reach one of the 2 Look OLL algorithms, we solve the entire last layer from there? Basically, force a PLL skip once we solve the 2 look OLL case?


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## Cride5 (Sep 27, 2009)

You mean CLL/ELL ?


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## V-te (Sep 27, 2009)

Cride5 said:


> You mean CLL/ELL ?



Well kinda, Combining CLL/and ELL in one step?


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## Cride5 (Sep 27, 2009)

1-Look Last Layer?


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## V-te (Sep 27, 2009)

Cride5 said:


> 1-Look Last Layer?



Kinda, See it's 1 look last layer, only after you reach the 1 of the 2 look OLL cases. 
So it would be like this

Cross
F2l
Setup 2 look OLL case
Solved


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## Cride5 (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm not sure if I follow. Could you explain the steps and what they achieve. For example. OLL/PLL is two steps:
1. Orientation of Corners + Orientation of Edges
2. Permutation of Corners + Permutation of Edges
... CLL/ELL is:
1. Orientation and Permutation of Corners
2. Orientation and Permutation of Edges


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## Escher (Sep 27, 2009)

V-te said:


> Cride5 said:
> 
> 
> > 1-Look Last Layer?
> ...



Umm... Isn't that just ZBLL? If by '1 of the 2 look OLL cases' you mean 'an OLL case with all edges oriented', then yeah, that would be.


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## V-te (Sep 27, 2009)

It's hard to explain, see it's basically ZBLL, but only from the 2 look OLL Cases.
See we finish F2l, and we set up a 2 look OLL case. From there, we look at the orientation of the pieces, and based on that, perform an algorithm to orient and permute all pieces at the same time, removing the need for PLL.


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## miniGOINGS (Sep 27, 2009)

So like do EOLL and then ZBLL it? That would work really well for Petrus...

Or OCLL and then doing ELL + CPLL at the same time? That might work...


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## joey (Sep 27, 2009)

ZBLL is only for the second half of two look. ZBLL needs edges oriented.


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## miniGOINGS (Sep 27, 2009)

joey said:


> ZBLL is only for the second half of two look. ZBLL needs edges oriented.





miniGOINGS said:


> *So like do EOLL* and then ZBLL it? That would work really well for Petrus...
> 
> Or OCLL and then doing ELL + CPLL at the same time? That might work...


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## Escher (Sep 27, 2009)

V-te said:


> It's hard to explain, see it's basically ZBLL, but only from the 2 look OLL Cases.
> See we finish F2l, and we set up a 2 look OLL case. From there, we look at the orientation of the pieces, and based on that, perform an algorithm to orient and permute all pieces at the same time, removing the need for PLL.



ZBLL = Permute Corners, Permute Edges, Orient Corners.


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## V-te (Sep 27, 2009)

Yes but this is all those steps in one algorithm. You orient and permute the edges and corners at the same time, but you only need to do it directly form the 2 look OLL cases.


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## miniGOINGS (Sep 27, 2009)

What do you mean by "2 look OLL cases"?


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## Athefre (Oct 8, 2009)

You can add mine to the list if you want, even though I don't recommend anyone use it because it has slightly more to memorize than Fridrich, depending on the variation.

http://athefre.110mb.com/


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## V-te (Oct 8, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> What do you mean by "2 look OLL cases"?



Ok, you know how we have 7 Olls that we use for 2 look OLL? that's what I mean. Steps would be like this.

Cross
F2l
2 look OLL
Solved.

So the main thing would be looking at all the possible permutations of those 7 cases, finding algs for them, then fixing the entire LL from the 2 look case.


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## Daniel Wu (Oct 8, 2009)

So you take all the two look OLLs and then solve them and the permutation of *both the edges and the corners *at the same time? 



Recognition would be awful though...


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## waffle=ijm (Oct 8, 2009)

V-te said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > What do you mean by "2 look OLL cases"?
> ...



sounds like CLL/ELL
not new, just not popular.


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## Cride5 (Oct 8, 2009)

waffle=ijm said:


> V-te said:
> 
> 
> > miniGOINGS said:
> ...



Yup, that's what I was thinking. CLL/ELL is probably the most sensible way to solve permutation during a '2-look' OLL. Its also is possible to do EO+EP before CO+CP, which is actually slightly less moves, but more algs [ref]. You could also do stuff like permuting edges while orienting corners, but that would just be a bit zany


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## miniGOINGS (Oct 8, 2009)

Cride5 said:


> waffle=ijm said:
> 
> 
> > V-te said:
> ...



Actually I think I'm going to look into that, permuting edges while orienting corners and then permutating corners while orienting edges...


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## V-te (Oct 9, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> Cride5 said:
> 
> 
> > waffle=ijm said:
> ...



But it could work right?
I mean if I could, I would find the algs myself, but unfortunately do not have the time. We could make this into a LL alternative.


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## anythingtwisty (Oct 9, 2009)

What about....
1. Heise blocks
2. Fridrich last pair
3. OLL/PLL


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## waffle=ijm (Oct 9, 2009)

anythingtwisty said:


> What about....
> 1. Heise blocks
> 2. Fridrich last pair
> 3. OLL/PLL



Or you can just use petrus...

when I do heise blocks, I always end with a 3 corner cycle and these corners can be any corner so I'm not sure how heise blocks would work...


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## miniGOINGS (Oct 9, 2009)

V-te said:


> But it could work right?
> I mean if I could, I would find the algs myself, but unfortunately do not have the time. We could make this into a LL alternative.



Yes it could work, and possibly quiet well. I would do this myself, but I don't have the time either.


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## V-te (Oct 9, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> V-te said:
> 
> 
> > But it could work right?
> ...



Do you think that we could have a collaboration to look for these algorithms?


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## miniGOINGS (Oct 9, 2009)

V-te said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > V-te said:
> ...



Sure, first we should find out all of the cases, and then we'll see if we should look for algorithms.

We need cases for

CO + EP
CP + EO

and then we could decide which order to do them.


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## 4Chan (Oct 9, 2009)

Wait a second there.
How many algs would that be?

Permuting edges and orienting corners... 7 oclls x 24 edge permutations = 168.

Also recognition would even be harder than ZBLL.

EDIT: I'm unsure about this number but, from knowledge about COLL and ZBLL, there are 6 possible corner permutations, and 6 possible edge orientations.

So.. 6 x 6 = 36.

That makes the Algorithm count lower than ZBLL. You might be onto something here.


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## miniGOINGS (Oct 9, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> Wait a second there.
> How many algs would that be?
> 
> Permuting edges and orienting corners... 7 oclls x 24 edge permutations = 168.
> ...



But mirrors. And for H there would only be 8 edge permutations. Harder than ZBLL? Really?


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## 4Chan (Oct 9, 2009)

That's very impractical.

Prove me wrong though, I know how it feels to learn an "impractical" method.

EDIT: It would be harder than ZBLL, because in ZBLL, you dont have to recognize the orientation of the edges, but if you do EO afterwards, youd have to look at the U side, as well as the other sides.

SECOND EDIT: See prior post.


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## miniGOINGS (Oct 9, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> That's very impractical.
> 
> Prove me wrong though, I know how it feels to learn an "impractical" method.
> 
> EDIT: It would be harder than ZBLL, because in ZBLL, you dont have to recognize the orientation of the edges, but if you do EO afterwards, youd have to look at the U side, as well as the other sides.



What if you did phasing, the number of algorithms would be waaaay less. Even if you did phasing while CP + EO. Then you would just do CO + EP.

EDIT: Depending on which you do first, there is a different number of cases for the second one.

EDIT: You were right, there is no difference in the order ou do them except maybe recog.


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## 4Chan (Oct 9, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> Cubes=Life said:
> 
> 
> > That's very impractical.
> ...



Yes, youre right~
If you did phasing to lower the algorithm count, and did mirrors and inverses, you could get the algorithm count to under a 100, and it could be feasible.


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## miniGOINGS (Oct 9, 2009)

Ok, so, ignoring phasing, we have

EO + CP = 28 cases excluding mirrors and inverses.
CO + EP = 84 cases excluding mirrors and inverses.
Total = 112 cases excluding mirrors and inverses.

For EO + CP;
If no corners have to be switched there are 4 cases (1 is EO + CP skip).
If only 2 corners have to be switched there are 8 cases.
If all 4 corners have to be switched there are 6 cases.
Total of 28 cases.

For CO + EP;
All oriented = 4 cases (Ua, Ub, Z, H perms)
None oriented = 8 + 12 = 20 cases
1 oriented = 24 cases
2 oriented = 36 cases
Total = 84 cases


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## 4Chan (Oct 9, 2009)

I just realized that you dont have to do them in a specific order.

And the numbers are still 168 and 36, ignoring mirrors and inverses.


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## miniGOINGS (Oct 10, 2009)

Read post #72.


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## 4Chan (Oct 10, 2009)

Ah, thats right, I forgot that when corners are permuted, you get 12 edge permutations.

Im curious to see how far this method will go.


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## miniGOINGS (Oct 10, 2009)

112 cases, one part could be broken up into 2 look making it 40 algorithms total.


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## V-te (Oct 10, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> 112 cases, one part could be broken up into 2 look making it 40 algorithms total.



Sweet! I am glad to see something be coming from here. 
In the event of succes with this method, I would suggest calling it the Speedsolving LL Method? Considering that this is a collaborated method. But that is just a proposal. Any others? 

In order to find the algorithms, could we use intuition or cube explorer to find the most finger friendly, fewest move algorithms?


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## Tim Major (Oct 10, 2009)

V-te said:


> Cride5 said:
> 
> 
> > 1-Look Last Layer?
> ...


ZBLL much? That's exactly what ZBLL is, but it uses ZBf2l to setup the OLL case.

Edit: Oops, I didn't realise that post was old, I thought that was the most recent post. silly me. :fp


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## miniGOINGS (Oct 10, 2009)

V-te said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > 112 cases, one part could be broken up into 2 look making it 40 algorithms total.
> ...



Yup, I'll work on that later.


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## Cyrus C. (Oct 17, 2009)

Has anyone come up with this 5x5 edge-pairing method?

Step 1: Find 2 edges that need to be matched up.
Step 2: Put those edges in the middle 3 layers with different colours facing you for each edge piece. (Like on 4x4 beginners edge pairing)
Step 3: Find the last edge that needs to be paired up and put it in the same way you would in step 2 with one of the edges (whichever is easiest).
Step 4: Using Double layer, & M layer turns, match all 3 edges up. (The centers won't be solved at this point)
Step 5: Move all 3 edges into the U/D layer and replace it with 3 unsolved edges.
Step 6: Fix the centers.

It should be easy to make a transition from beginners 5x5 method to this.


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## anythingtwisty (Oct 17, 2009)

Cyrus C. said:


> Has anyone come up with this 5x5 edge-pairing method?
> 
> Step 1: Find 2 edges that need to be matched up.
> Step 2: Put those edges in the middle 3 layers with different colours facing you for each edge piece. (Like on 4x4 beginners edge pairing)
> ...


Yes.


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