# Windows 7 RC



## Lofty (May 12, 2009)

Has anyone else installed 7 yet? 
I like it pretty good so far. Maybe its just that I don't have all the stuff installed that I did on vista but I have about half of the processes running that I did on Vista and my computer is much quieter. 
I'm still waiting for a Windows OS so come with Colemak tho...


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## martijn_cube (May 12, 2009)

I've installed it on multiple pc's. i use it as main on my home and work pc. And i work as a system/network guy, and it works very good.


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## Lofty (May 12, 2009)

Cool! I'm definitely going to have to try to get a real copy once my trial runs out next year. I'm still getting it set up to use as my main OS on this computer. 
I deleted my linux partition for it. Its so much easier to use. No messing with any grub loader thing and I can easily create shortcuts to my vista partition where all my files are. And of course all my hardware works which it didn't on linux.


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## d4m4s74 (May 12, 2009)

I've got it on my laptop and I love it

If I'm totally sure I don't need Vista anymore I'll remove it and dualboot OSX


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## Jai (May 12, 2009)

It looks very promising, but I'm not going to install it yet; I'll buy it when it comes out in October or so (yes, it's coming out this year) along with some more RAM (I want to bump up my 2 GB to 3 GB).

Is the XP Virtual Machine functional / have you tried it yet?


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## Lofty (May 12, 2009)

I would remove vista but since the trial of the rc isn't endless I don't want to make anything permanent in case I can't afford a valid copy which is very very likely. 
From what I have seen on the internet the XP virtual machine is functional but may not work on all laptops due to the laptop processor. I haven't tried it myself as I am switching from vista not xp. I don't think I have anything that works only for XP.


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## MichaelErskine (May 13, 2009)

Still just a poor copy of KDE4  

Don't get hooked on its promises unless you're willing to fork out the full price for it: many will fall foul of the 2-hr automatic shutdown extortion.


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## d4m4s74 (May 13, 2009)

msemtd said:


> Still just a poor copy of KDE4
> 
> Don't get hooked on its promises unless you're willing to fork out the full price for it: many will fall foul of the 2-hr automatic shutdown extortion.


just moved my clock forward to march 1, all of a sudden a screen pops up saying my computer will shut down in 18 minutes

then I moved the clock back to today...


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## DcF1337 (May 13, 2009)

That isn't very smart of Microsoft.... how can they make it so easy to bypass the auto-shutdown?


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## rahulkadukar (May 13, 2009)

I tried Windows 7 RC 64 bit but honestly I prefer Vista Ultimate 64 bit


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## gillesvdp (May 14, 2009)

DcF1337 said:


> That isn't very smart of Microsoft.... how can they make it so easy to bypass the auto-shutdown?



So that means as long as you leave the date on your pc set to the 2009 year, you will be ok?
nice 
though you might have some issues with documents you sort by date or emails...


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## DcF1337 (May 14, 2009)

rahulkadukar said:


> I tried Windows 7 RC 64 bit but honestly I prefer Vista Ultimate 64 bit



Why? Stability?



gillesvdp said:


> DcF1337 said:
> 
> 
> > That isn't very smart of Microsoft.... how can they make it so easy to bypass the auto-shutdown?
> ...



Yeah. But I personally would rather get the gold version, for stability and updates.


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## AvGalen (May 14, 2009)

I have it running as my main OS on my personal PC.
I also have it running (in a test-environment) for work (2008 R2 RC)

I keep finding small, but very nice improvements over Vista.
All my hardware and software works on it.
I miss Windows Movie Maker and Windows Mail (the Live variations just don't cut it for me)

Highly recommended for testing and even for day-to-day usage (but using a non-RTM product on a machine you really need continuously is a bad idea)


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## d4m4s74 (May 14, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> I have it running as my main OS on my personal PC.
> I also have it running (in a test-environment) for work (2008 R2 RC)
> 
> I keep finding small, but very nice improvements over Vista.
> ...


Windows movie maker can be downoaded (well, beta)

just download the Windows Live Messenger installer, uncheck WLM and check Windows Movie Maker Beta


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## tim (May 14, 2009)

d4m4s74 said:


> just download the Windows Live Messenger installer, uncheck WLM and check Windows Movie Maker Beta



Windows Movie Maker is part of the Windows Live Messenger setup?


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## AvGalen (May 14, 2009)

tim said:


> d4m4s74 said:
> 
> 
> > just download the Windows Live Messenger installer, uncheck WLM and check Windows Movie Maker Beta
> ...


No, Windows Movie Maker and Windows Live Messenger are both part of the Windows Live setup (you can install any or none of those and other Live programs)

However, as I said before: the Live variations just don't cut it for me

Windows Live Movie Maker is a complete joke!


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## d4m4s74 (May 14, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Windows Live Movie Maker is a complete joke!



true, it doesn't even have a webcam function


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## shelley (May 14, 2009)

http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/04/22/portable-windows-movie-maker/

Someone made a standalone version of the original Windows Movie Maker. Perhaps that's what you're looking for?


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## Lofty (May 14, 2009)

That reminds me that I no longer have any webcam program on my computer to film solves with. What would you guys recommend? I'm just using the webcam that came with the computer so I was using the software that came with the computer.


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## AvGalen (May 15, 2009)

shelley said:


> http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/04/22/portable-windows-movie-maker/
> 
> Someone made a standalone version of the original Windows Movie Maker. Perhaps that's what you're looking for?


I am not entirely sure that's legal, but since I own a license to Vista Ultimate for the pc I am now running Windows 7 RC on, I think it should be ok.
Thanks Shelley, you just saved me from setting up a multi-boot for the (very limited amount of) video-editing I sometimes do.

I do hope that Microsoft will fix this: http://www.osnews.com/story/21499/Why_Windows_7_s_Default_UAC_Is_Insecure
(discussed in very great detail at http://www.pretentiousname.com/misc/win7_uac_whitelist2.html)

For now, I have just put "User Account Control Settings" on "Always Notify"

My favorite new/improved features so far:
* Windows Media Center
* Jumplists
* Taskbar ("Dock")
* Snaps (A really simple feature that is incredibly useful)


> With Snaps, you can simply grab a window and pull it to either side edge of the screen to fill half the screen. Snap windows to both sides, and it’s easier than ever to compare those windows


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## Lofty (May 16, 2009)

Hm, I have always ran my machine with the UAC all the way off... Its just annoying having to always click that yes I want to do something that I just told my computer to do. 
Snaps doesn't quite work as easily when you are using more than one display. I can only fill the right half of my right monitor and the left half of the left one. I still use it to snap at the top and make things full screen temporarily.


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## MichaelErskine (May 16, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> My favorite new/improved features so far:
> * Windows Media Center
> * Jumplists
> * Taskbar ("Dock")
> * Snaps (A really simple feature that is incredibly useful)


Welcome to early 1990's unix window manager features


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## FrankLZ (May 16, 2009)

I want to reformat my hard drive and dedicate it entirely to Windows RC1 (yes I know that might not be the smartest thing, but still). I've backed up everything but I worry that I will have to totally reformat my ipod touch because it will think I am switching computers.

This would be REALLY annoying. Does anyone know if there is a way for me to not have to do this?

(I explained that poorly so let me try again, basically I'm trying to prevent this situation: when I first got my ipod touch I was at work and downloaded a bunch of apps on my itunes at work and transferred them over to my ipod touch. When I got home, it made me redownload all of those apps because they were downloaded at a different computer then retransfer those newly downloaded apps as fresh copies to my ipod touch, effectively clearing all data I previously made in that app. Throughout all of this I was signed in to the same itunes account. How can I prevent this same thing from happening if I reformat my computer?)


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## AvGalen (May 16, 2009)

msemtd: Please tell me which window manager you are talking about. All my Unix experience has been on SCO Unix and in the early 90's, that didn't have a window manager. I also can't imagine Unix having a Media Center. I am not claiming these features are new or unique, but I love the way they work in Windows 7. It is so easy to record a serie in Media Center and then see it appear in the Media Center Jump List the next time I use my computer. And Snaps works so much better than "cascade windows". It is not the fact that these features are there that I like. It is the way they work that I like.
I just did some checking and this is what Irix 6.5 (1998) looked like: http://software.majix.org/irix/screenshots/screen.5.big.jpg). I don't see a dock/taskbar, anything that works like jumplists or even a good way to organise all those windows. I am wondering if that "Register to win" was an Irix thing, or if there was some malware installed 

FrankLZ: You should contact Apple with this question (and post the answer here). I have heard they have great support.
Vista and Windows 7 can change the partition size while running so maybe you could just perform an upgrade (only works if you are using Vista, doesn't work when you are using XP) and resize afterwards?


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## tim (May 16, 2009)

I watched this presentation movie. Windows 7 looks nice and seems to be much more user friendly then before.
But there's no doubt, that they've lend a lot of stuff from other operating systems (especially Mac OS X). I haven't seen any real innovation.


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## d4m4s74 (May 16, 2009)

the dock has been in mac (which is BSD based)
whatever it's called, but windowskey-tab in vista was on linux before
snaps was used in linux before
there is a linux media center, but I don't know if it was there earlier then windows media center. The one I use was made in 08 though


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## eragg0 (May 17, 2009)

I really like my evaluation copy of 7 ultimate. It boots from sleep in matter of seconds (3-4 secs usually (my screen is usually slower to start up with 5 secs))


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## AvGalen (May 17, 2009)

tim said:


> I watched this presentation movie. Windows 7 looks nice and seems to be much more user friendly then before.
> But there's no doubt, that they've lend a lot of stuff from other operating systems (especially Mac OS X). I haven't seen any real innovation.


Thanks for that link. Impressive demonstrations! I hope you also watched part 2. Since the beginning of time every OS has lend/taken/copied/improved features from others. Windows Vista was all about introducing new features (especially in video and audio driver model and lots of new IO-improving techniques). Windows 7 is not about introducing new features (although it has some), it is all about improving what was started in Vista and User Experience.

I don't know what kind of innovation you would like to see in an OS. By nature, all of them seem to be evolutionary and not revolutionary lately. (I would only call Windows 95, Windows NT and Mac OS X revolutionary)
Other innovative things from Microsoft would be DirectX, XMLHTTPRequest (base for Ajax) and the Ribbon interface

For really innovative things from Microsoft I would recommend looking at Surface, Singularity and Gazelle. All of those are coming from the Microsoft Research Department and it takes a long time for those projects to become products (Surface was already shown in the movie Minority Report, but has only been a product for about a year now). Who wants to bet that when people find out about Multi-touch in Windows 7 they will say it is copied from the IPhone?

I personally don't really care which OS has a feature first. I care that they all get them. Right now the most important feature that Windows is missing is a package manager/repository system. Windows/Microsoft Update just doesn't cut it and all those applications with their own update mechanisms is just a mess.

Windows XP had a seperate Media Center Edition in 2002
Some Vista versions had the next version Media Center built in


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## FrankLZ (May 17, 2009)

Uh Oh

I installed Windows 7 RC 1 yesterday and was quite pleased with it, but decided today that I would reinstall it. After I did so I had the pleasant surprise of finding out that I could no longer boot into my old OS, Windows XP, which was on a separate partition.

The first time I installed RC1 I could still boot into my old OS just fine. I'm sure that my old OS is still intact. My guess is that it is only my ability to boot into it that is the problem. 

Does anybody know how to get my computer to recognize my other OS? Currently when I go into System Properties>Advanced>Startup and Recover Settings>System Startup it only recognizes Windows 7, there is no Windows XP as there was before. Does anybody know how to fix this?

I'm gonna post this on a Win7 board, but I figured I'd post it here too since we are all probably computer nerds too


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## Musje (May 17, 2009)

FrankLZ said:


> Uh Oh
> 
> I installed Windows 7 RC 1 yesterday and was quite pleased with it, but decided today that I would reinstall it. After I did so I had the pleasant surprise of finding out that I could no longer boot into my old OS, Windows XP, which was on a separate partition.
> 
> ...


Is the windows XP on a different partition or a whole different disk?

If it's on a different disk you can try booting from the other disk. 
You can do this by going to boot menu on startup (escape for me, buttons differ per computer) and then selecing one harddrive, if it fails (boots windows 7 or just doesn't boot at all) try another one.


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## AvGalen (May 18, 2009)

Please tell us the current disk/partition schema. You can get that by running the command "diskpart" and then "list volume"

Alternatively you could run diskpart and then:
select disk 0
list partition
select disk 1
list partition
select disk 2
list partition
etc


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## KubeKid73 (May 18, 2009)

I'm downloading it right now to install in VirtualBox.


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## FrankLZ (May 18, 2009)

Musje said:


> Is the windows XP on a different partition or a whole different disk?



I've got two physical drives and two main partitions (that have drive letters) on each.









In that picture you will see 6 partitions
Disk 0 - Partition 1 = My main Windows XP partition that used to be bootable
Disk 0 - Partition 0 = I'm not sure what this is
Disk 0 - Partition 2 = This is where Windows 7 is
Note - it surprised me that there are two partitions that are listed as 61 GB because this is impossible, the hard drive is only 400 GB. It is also surprising because I only created one 61 GB partition and also because in the 'Disk Managment' windows utility it only shows one 61 GB partition, the 'logical one'

Disk 1 - Partition 1 = A partition that was made by Windows 7 the second time I installed it
Disk 1 - Partition 2 = Just storage
Disk 1 - Partition 3 = Just storage

I guess there is another element to the story. The first time I installed Windows 7 I had Disk 1 disabled. The second time, the time when Windows XP bootability disappeared I had Disk 1 enabled and it created Disk 1 - Partition 1

I really appreciate your help on this. I hope this isn't too unRubiky for the forum


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## AvGalen (May 18, 2009)

The first 61 GB is an extended partition, basically a container for one or more logical partitions. You could have a 61 GB extended partition with 61 1GB logical partitions.

To re-enable XP, you could use the "diskpart" with:
select disk 0
select partition 1
active

You might need to disable disk 2 again

For more options, read http://www.multibooters.co.uk/bootmgr.html

(yes, this is very unRubiky, that's what off-topic is for)


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## FrankLZ (May 18, 2009)

Yo 'da man Arnaud! Thanks, I can't look at this today (got exams tomorrow) but I will very soon.

Anybody know of a plugin or modification that allows you to put Cut, Copy, Paste, Delete, Undo, Refresh, Properties, etc. buttons on the toolbar of Windows Vista/7 explorer windows? I am so used to having those in Windows XP. Not having them in Windows Vista/7 is my main complaint with the new OS's, otherwise I really don't have any complaints about Windows 7.


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## blah (May 18, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Right now the most important feature that Windows is missing is a package manager/repository system. Windows/Microsoft Update just doesn't cut it and all those applications with their own update mechanisms is just a mess.



Couldn't have said it better.


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## AvGalen (May 18, 2009)

Except for that major UAC bug, has anyone found/heard of another big issue with Windows 7 RC?

What are your favourite new/improved features?
What hardware/software do you have that is giving problems?
What features are you missing that used to be in previous versions of Windows or are present in another OS?
What brand new feature are you missing that should be added as soon as possible?

[my personal take]
Vista brought a lot of new things and changes compared to XP. It had some major issues when it launched (very late, file-copy-issues) and some big companies didn't have their Vista drivers ready (ATI/AMD, NVidia, Creative, HP especially). After SP1 all of these problems had gone away, but people will always remember Vista as the OS that promised, but did not deliver.
Windows 7 is going to be the OS that didn't promise anything, but delivered. It is basically going to be to Vista what SP2 was for XP: A release, 3 years after the previous release that will eventually make people forget about all previous releases and become the defacto standard for consumers and businesses. The big difference is that SP2 for XP was free and that Windows 7 will not be. Calling Windows 7 "Vista SP3" wouldn't have erased the negative image that Vista has. Ironically the Server version didn't have this negative image (although the basis/kernel of that OS is identical to Vista) because it already started with SP1 installed, so that version can be called 2008 R2
[/my personal take]

There is lot's of rome for improvement after Windows 7 and I am personally hoping for the following:
1) Less product differentiation, just 1 Server and 1 Home version should be enough
2) More use of this idea for all installations: "I don't know much about computers so just install with default options" or "I want to have lots of control so give me *very* detailed options I can choose from"
3) 1 central place (repository, app-store, programs-and-features) + commandline tools for installing, updating and removing *at least *the top 100 software programs in the (Windows) world (that includes Firefox, Chrome, Apache, PHP, MySQL, OpenOffice, Flash, Silverlight, Adobe Reader, WinZip, Java Runtime, MS-Office, Windows Live, Skype, etc)
4) Everything "secure by default, opening up only during use and after requested"
5) A very strong push for "hardware-support-only"-drivers without additional "super-duper-cool Dell/HP/Sony supplied"-programs
6) Tab-based Windows Explorer with the option to have 2 tabs side-by-side (Total Commander-like)
7) Portability. I would like to unplug my storage-unit from my "box of power hardware" and connect it to another "box of power hardware", have it reconfigure itself (only once for every different type of "boph") and continue working with all my personal files (OS, programs, tools, documents, settings, etc). Obviously this is just an intermediate step untill the storage-unit is actually just located somewhere on the internet
8) A default browser, media player, movie maker and picture viewer that are good enough for every day usage, can handle all content and are entirely based on the latest and most used standards


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## Musje (May 18, 2009)

Windows 7 seems to fail to add taskbar icons for me. 

I do get the open programs things (square with logo)
However, any logo supposed to be in the right (MSN, connected device status etc) seems to just add to the normal stuff. Pretty annoying because it means some icons are simply in the wrong place..


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## AvGalen (May 18, 2009)

Musje said:


> Windows 7 seems to fail to add taskbar icons for me.
> 
> I do get the open programs things (square with logo)
> However, any logo supposed to be in the right (MSN, connected device status etc) seems to just add to the normal stuff. Pretty annoying because it means some icons are simply in the wrong place..


Screenshot please, and if you are sure it is a bug you should file a bug report.

I have personally added two icons to the taskbar and that worked just fine


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## Musje (May 18, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Musje said:
> 
> 
> > Windows 7 seems to fail to add taskbar icons for me.
> ...


here are some screenies, first 2 without the real windows open (the showed stuff should be in the taskbar on the right)
last 2 with the main windows open, showing 2 windows in the program part of the taskbar. 

Click thumbnails to make them bigger


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## AvGalen (May 18, 2009)

Musje said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > Musje said:
> ...


I tried to understand what you mean and expect to happen, but I don't understand what you think is wrong. Please make sure you are not confusing the taskbar (the area that includes the "docked icons" on the left and the empty space to the right of the docked icons) with the notification area (the tiny icons on the right). If you want to determine what happens in the notification area you should do the following:
- Right-click on an empty area of the taskbar and choose properties
- On the taskbar-tab, choose Customize (middle area)
or navigate to Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Notification Area Icons
- Now determine what you want to appear in the notification area


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## Musje (May 18, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Musje said:
> 
> 
> > AvGalen said:
> ...


The MSN and ZEN windows (left ones on both pictures) should be in the notification area. 

The customize option only allows you to customize stuff already put there by windows, which it doesn't do in the first place. That is my problem.

I don't recall having this problem with the beta, but I haven't used that for long.


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## AvGalen (May 18, 2009)

@Musje: I don't know why you think these should be in the notification area. They are both programs that can have multiple windows and thus belong in the taskbar. The notification area is meant for background information that gets provided by continuously running services.

I can understand why you might think MSN might be a candidate for the notification area if you are having it constantly turned on and consider it a background program that you sometimes turn on/off. But I think a place in the taskbar is better because mostly you want MSN loaded when you are using it and unloaded when you are not going to use it for a longer time.

I don't know what the ZEN program does, but I am assuming it is an iTunes/Media Player like application and so that should be in the taskbar as well, not in the notification area.

If those two programs were in the notification area in previous versions, I think the change to the taskbar was for a good reason


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## Lofty (May 19, 2009)

When I used Vista all of my messenger programs were placed in the notification area so I understand his confusion. AIM still appears in that area but I don't really know why. I never access any of the features available to me from the notification area because I always have it open. 
I don't know why you would want your media player over there... unless you want it always open with a few basic controls available to you.


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## Musje (May 19, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> @Musje: I don't know why you think these should be in the notification area. They are both programs that can have multiple windows and thus belong in the taskbar. The notification area is meant for background information that gets provided by continuously running services.
> 
> I can understand why you might think MSN might be a candidate for the notification area if you are having it constantly turned on and consider it a background program that you sometimes turn on/off. But I think a place in the taskbar is better because mostly you want MSN loaded when you are using it and unloaded when you are not going to use it for a longer time.
> 
> ...


In previous versions of windows, MSN popped up on the notification area. 
With windows just opening in the taskbar. 
Now I have a thing in the taskbar that just opens the main window when clicked (making me have 2 things in the taskbar for 1 window)

The ZEN thing is just something from windows that allows you to manage it and see how far it's charged (that's pretty buggy for me though as 36-39% according to windows is full according to the player. And that doesn't update unless I reconnect the player)
So that's not a media player 

I use winamp as media player and that one is okay in the taskbar.


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## AvGalen (May 19, 2009)

If you can make a better argument for the old way of MSN, file it as a regression bug with Microsoft.

Are you sure the Zen thing is something from Windows (Device Stage probably) it looks like a driver-application (I hate those, drivers should be drivers and not include applications).

The simple reason why both of these belong in the taskbar is that they can have multiple windows associated with them as you can see in your screenshots


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## Musje (May 19, 2009)

I'm sure it's of windows as I was getting it before installing the drivers. 

Also, the drivers are integrated in the windows menu's (right click - copy to ZEN and there's a separate manager in windows explorer)


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