# What took you longer to learn? OLL or PLL?



## OMGitsSolved (Apr 1, 2011)

So I see that OLL has shorter algorithms but there is lots more and PLL has longer algorithms but there isn't as much. So for all of you who know full 2 look LL which one was easier? OLL or PLL.


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## Nestor (Apr 1, 2011)

I bet no one is going to say OLL.


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## OMGitsSolved (Apr 1, 2011)

UnAbusador said:


> I bet no one is going to say OLL.


 
I know someone who will...


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## Systemdertoten (Apr 1, 2011)

I learned PLL in a week or so in September.
I started OLL back in October.
I'm still learning.


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## Rpotts (Apr 1, 2011)

OLL, but i had like a year break in learning PLL lol.


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## freshcuber (Apr 1, 2011)

Learn OLL first. Sure PLL is less to learn and all that jazz but I'm almost done with OLL and recognition can be rough at first. Not recognition as much as recall really but either way with 57 possibilities it takes longer for that to get better. Especially when most subsets are one or two cases and then a mirror. The only thing that's hard about PLL is longer algs. I think recognition is really easy. The only thong that takes me a bit to identify is which G is which and that's because there's four and then for some reason I have problems recognizing Ja as well as I do Jb. By the time I finish I'd say that they'll both have taken roughly the same amount of time.


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## Rpotts (Apr 1, 2011)

freshcuber said:


> Learn OLL first.


 
do not do this.


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## freshcuber (Apr 1, 2011)

Rpotts said:


> do not do this.


 
Why not?


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## tx789 (Apr 1, 2011)

OLL I've been learning slowly since July even a little before the first tournament. I've got 22 left and PLL a learned in a few months or so-ish a learned the H and Z before July 10 later year as well. I learned the G last but didn't learn to recognise them and have half-forgotten them.


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## RyanReese09 (Apr 1, 2011)

I learned OLL and PLL semi together. Mostly OLL first but I'd learn a few PLLs mid way through just because I wanted to do something cool with the cube.

I guess OLL took longer if you talk about periods of time.


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## EricReese (Apr 1, 2011)

PLL took me about 7 days. OLL is by far easier to learn though Nick..the algs are so easy to learn. And its an easy way to knock off around 2 (if your fast, because recognition for both the 1st and 2nd look of OLL)-3 seconds off your time

inb4pplquote

These added times reflect Nicks current times, and the approximation I think it adds to his solves.


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## Tim Major (Apr 1, 2011)

freshcuber said:


> Why not?


2 look OLL adds on 1~ second. Depends on turning speed but Faz did 8.xy a12 with 2 look OLL, FRUR'U'F' and the variants are much faster than RUR'U'R'FR2U'R'U'RUR'F'. 1 look PLL saves more time.


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## Cool Frog (Apr 1, 2011)

OLL took me less time to learn than PLL I found PLL algorithms hard to get into memory, then when i started getting into OLL it was all about recognition. Was able to do 3-4 performances until OLL got drilled in.


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## cubeslayer (Apr 1, 2011)

I am still learning my olls ( I know, on and off, 30 +). Plls were easy to learn since there are only 13 algs to learn ( the remaining 8 are mirrors).


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## freshcuber (Apr 1, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> 2 look OLL adds on 1~ second. Depends on turning speed but Faz did 8.xy a12 with 2 look OLL, FRUR'U'F' and the variants are much faster than RUR'U'R'FR2U'R'U'RUR'F'. 1 look PLL saves more time.


 
Execution isn't what kills you at OLL. It's recognition. The more time you look at OLL cases and see lines, dots, or small L's the harder it is to break from there and scan the whole top layer quickly to see the case.

Whichever you learn first once you learn it start on the next. I took months before I started learning OLL and it was a bad choice. Starting to learn algs is like homework. It sucks at first but once you're in the mindset it's not too bad. Don't look at it as "Oh, I'll learn full PLL right now." Look at it as "Oh, I'll learn 2LLL"


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## Andreaillest (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm procrastinating the hell out of learning OLL.


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## freshcuber (Apr 1, 2011)

Andreaillest said:


> I'm procrastinating the hell out of learning OLL.


 
Just grit your teeth and take the plunge. Two a day and you're done in a month. Not too bad at all.


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## Chrisalead (Apr 1, 2011)

PLL took me 2 weeks (specially the 4 G perms took me 4 days to avoid mistakes). OLL took me 1 month and a half.


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## Godmil (Apr 1, 2011)

As above. 2 weeks PLL, 6 weeks OLL.


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## ilikecubing (Apr 1, 2011)

Duh...OLL


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## d4m4s74 (Apr 1, 2011)

I learned full PLL in around a week, no problem at all
I'm still learning full OLL

I do one look oll with two look algs 
For example for headlights I use atisune U' sune (The only second look case I do with two algs, just because I don't like the alg in the OLL list I learned from) and for the "kiteflip" (OLL 39) I use P (f sexy f') sune
and because I can already recognize all OLLs I'm slowly learning each of them


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## QCcuber4 (Apr 1, 2011)

I think the post's question has an easy answer... Pll is the easiest... 21 algs vs 57, pll wins.


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## ElectricDoodie (Apr 1, 2011)

freshcuber said:


> Execution isn't what kills you at OLL. It's recognition. The more time you look at OLL cases and see lines, dots, or small L's the harder it is to break from there and scan the whole top layer quickly to see the case.


Wow, if this is true, I've made a bad choice.

I've been holding off on OLL, as I try to get my F2L under 11 seconds. Because of this, I'm still using 2LOLL, and Full PLL. 
So, me getting used to the dot/bar/line/L is going to make it harder for me to transition to Full OLL? 

Maybe I should get on it, then...


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## That70sShowDude (Apr 1, 2011)

Obvious sarcasm is obvious


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## RTh (Apr 1, 2011)

OLL is taking way longer. PLL took a week, 3 algs per day. 2 weeks to practice.

OLL about 1 alg every 4 days, they are boring xD


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## Hiero (Apr 1, 2011)

PLL took me about 2 weeks and OLL took about 2 months. The PLL algorithms were a pain to learn at first because when you are a begginer you are not used to such long algorithms. OLL was suprisingly easy until you get past 30 algorithms and then it's about recognition and keeping the algorithms straight in your head. I do like the OLL algorithms much better.


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 1, 2011)

OLL (57) is taking me longer to learn than CLS (105) did. 
Numbers aren't everything; interest helps a lot.


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## JyH (Apr 1, 2011)

cfopyuck


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## CubicNL (Apr 1, 2011)

Oll for sure.


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## cuberkid10 (Apr 1, 2011)

PLL took the longest. (Almost a year and a half) I only have 10 OLl's left and it took 2 months.


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## freshcuber (Apr 1, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> Wow, if this is true, I've made a bad choice.
> 
> I've been holding off on OLL, as I try to get my F2L under 11 seconds. Because of this, I'm still using 2LOLL, and Full PLL.
> So, me getting used to the dot/bar/line/L is going to make it harder for me to transition to Full OLL?
> ...


 
It still messes me up sometimes. I'll think I have a Line case and it ends up actually being a Knight Move case and then I end up with another OLL to solve. The dots are pretty easy to overcome but it the Lines and small L's are a bit tougher to break the habit with.


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## Rpotts (Apr 2, 2011)

sorry freshcuber, but OLL recognition is easy. you can recognize but looking at the U face (obvious pattern which limits the case to a few mirrors and such) and one side face like R or F (or both)


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## freshcuber (Apr 2, 2011)

That's easy to say once you've been doing it a while but in the beginning I believe OLL recognition is harder. Especially since PLL can be identified by looking at two faces and OLL usually needs three.


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## Rpotts (Apr 2, 2011)

OLL does not need 3. 2 face pll recognition is sorta hard (especially when it's not auf'd) but 2 face oll recognition is easy.


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## freshcuber (Apr 2, 2011)

Yea free a while. Neither of us will agree with the other. Speaking from experience everyone says "oh just learn PLL and then do OLL whenever" that leads to people putting off OLL when its really not hard at all.


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## Rpotts (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm just curious which OLLs you think need 3 faces to recognize, I haven't noticed any that do but I could be wrong.


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## Coke (Apr 2, 2011)

OLL, mainly because there are like more than twice as many cases, not to mention practicing recognition.

On the other hand however, Those G perms can get pretty nasty...


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## Andrew Ricci (Apr 2, 2011)

Freshcuber, I have to disagree with you completely. And I'll give you four good reasons for why.

1.) Learning PLL first keeps beginners from getting frustrated, since you can complete the entire set in around two weeks easily. With OLL, it can take you 2-3 months, which is plenty of time for a new solver to give up. 57 algs is pretty intimidating as well.

2.) Switching from two look OLL to one look is really not hard to get used to. Seriously. It took me maybe a day or two, max. 

3.) Finishing PLL first allows the user to have a full set completed, while learning OLL results in the user being stuck in an in between stage for weeks. This can get very frustrating when it comes to recognizing cases. In reality, it will result in the user having a large recognition increase, which will not improve until the cuber can finish a certain set of patterns. This can be frustrating for beginners trying to get faster.

4.) PLL will improve your times much quicker. Nuff said.


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## tozies24 (Apr 2, 2011)

I learned full pll in the first couple months of cubing (roughly 3) and I just finished full oll. It took about 12 months for full oll but I didn't really bother too much with that until recently. pll was a lot easier to learn for me because the cases come up more often since there are only 21. Two look OLL was good enough for me since it is pretty straight forward. two look pll in my opinion was a lot of guess and get lucky, so i wanted to learn that first.

So OLL took a lot longer to get to answer the question.


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## cincyaviation (Apr 2, 2011)

PLL took much longer, mostly because i was a lot more dedicated to learning OLL than PLL.


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## freshcuber (Apr 2, 2011)

The small L's can take three faces. if you have the ones with a bar one the side you won't know if it's the mirror or not. Once you're well acquainted with all the cases I'm sure you do only need two to know which it is but starting out it's more likely than not a beginner will use three. 

If OLL takes 2-3 months then you're just not putting effort into learning it. A month is very easily possible with two algs a day and many algs are extremely easy to learn like all the R U R' U' variants. 

That depends on how many cases you learn. If you just learn a hodge podge of who ever ones you feel like then yeah you'll get used to it faster by if you start with dot cases like most do you'll see it as dot or no dot and if it's no dot you'll see L case or Line. You don't see which actual case it is for a while. 

OLL shouldn't take a countless amount of time to complete. You can finish it in nearly the same time as PLL if you do one a day with PLL and two a day with OLL. And in the long run of your cubing career those few weeks will be pretty much meaningless. 

Not necessarily. Sure learning the algs isn't bad but getting fast at them can take time. A decent average for PLL execution would be considered something like 1.2 seconds per alg. Getting a T-Perm that fast doesn't take much because all you have to do is spam TPS. Something like the V F and G perms can take a longer time to get good at.


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## crashdummy001 (Apr 2, 2011)

PLL took me 4 months. OLL took me 2 days.

April fools, i'm not done with OLL


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## freshcuber (Apr 2, 2011)

crashdummy001 said:


> PLL took me 4 months. OLL took me 2 days.


 
I see what you did there


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## amostay2004 (Apr 2, 2011)

@freshcuber: The main point is, learning PLLs first is way more beneficial to solves than 1 look OLL. You see a lot of fast cubers that still does 2 look OLL but you don't see any of them with 1 look OLL and 2 look PLL do you? Sure for a person who is very certain of dedicating him/herself to learning full CFOP, it doesn't really matter which you learn first because in the end it's all the same. But for someone who just wants to solve faster first without being daunted by a lot of algs which take so long to learn to recognise and execute, or someone who may feel like switching methods in the future, it's always nice to get a 'feel' of CFOP by doing 2 look PLL first.

It doesn't mean because OLL recognition is harder (I don't agree with you on this point btw) that you should learn OLL first, because it's the same thing in the end.

That being said, does anyone here actually learned full OLL first before learning full PLL?


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## freshcuber (Apr 2, 2011)

:fp

*WHEN FIRST LEARNED* OLL recognition is harder than PLL recognition due to the sheer number of cases is what I'm saying. In the end I'm sure OLL recognition is easier since you're looking at eight stickers instead of eight cubies.


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## EricReese (Apr 2, 2011)

I think every OLL case but the "awkward" ones are so easy to recognize. They are all so different that its really hard to mess up recognition. With PLL its more common for me to mess up recognizing what it is (though of course it happens almost never"


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## RyanReese09 (Apr 2, 2011)

amostay2004 said:


> That being said, does anyone here actually learned full OLL first before learning full PLL?


 
I technically learned OLL first and hten PLL, although I didn't start even doing CFOP solves until I had learned full OLL/PLL. So classify that how you wish.


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## JustinJ (Apr 2, 2011)

I don't know if freshcuber is serious or not, but learning OLL first is just silly. PLL gives you roughly the same benefit for a third of the work.


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## guinepigs rock (Apr 2, 2011)

Im not really learning oll I know a few of the cases after I get the cross. Pll takes longer for me.


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## ooveehoo (Apr 2, 2011)

PLL took about a month.
OLL 3 years and counting


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## Selkie (Apr 2, 2011)

I learned 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL in about 5 days.

Then 10 more days for full PLL and about 5 weeks for full OLL.


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## ~Adam~ (Apr 2, 2011)

I learnt PLL in about a week and OLL over a 2 month period.


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## IamWEB (Apr 2, 2011)

OLL took longer to learn, because I have a brain efficiency mutation that makes me desire to learn larger sets of algorithmic cases rather than a smaller amount. PLL took almost 3 times as long to learn because I was frustrated with knowing there were only 21 to learn. The algs just weren't saying with me !


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## LouisCormier (Apr 2, 2011)

OLL took me longer but I was racing with my friend for full PLL ...


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## Zane_C (Apr 2, 2011)

Due to their length, PLL algs are often more difficult to learn than OLL algs. But because their are 57 OLL and 21 PLL cases, full OLL took me longer to learn.


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 2, 2011)

freshcuber(and others)
Any LL case can be recognized with only 3 faces (U,F,R).
For that matter, any LS+LL case can be recognized with those same 3 faces.

Any PLL case can be recognize with only 2 faces (F,R).


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## Vinny (Apr 2, 2011)

I still have 1 more PLL to learn. I keep putting it off because I'm so lazy. Then again, I haven't started for full OLL yet. I think once I learn the last PLL, I'm going to learn the dot cases for OLL first.


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 2, 2011)

Whew. After 10-15mins of debate:
OLL can be determined with just U and F this often:
17/27+((6+4)/27)/2
so 22/27 of the time. Or 81.5% of the time, you can do so.

Fun times had by: me, ryau, timmajor, and aronpm


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## Carson (Apr 2, 2011)

Started cubing in 2005... finished PLL in roughly 2009... still only know ~1/3 of OLL.


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## danthecuber (Apr 2, 2011)

StachuK1992 said:


> Fun times had by: me, ryau, timmajor, and aronpm


 
It didn't seem all that fun

ot: i learned full pll in about a month, just started full oll, and have learned two cases.


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## eastamazonantidote (Apr 2, 2011)

OLL took me about a week because by then I knew triggers and such. PLL took me almost 3 months because I wasn't motivated and still didn't know how to learn algs.

Slightly different but related topic: COLL took me 6 months because I was constantly changing algs while learning. And I am currently 16 months into ZBLL and I only know what my sig says. grrr....


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## uberCuber (Apr 3, 2011)

freshcuber said:


> You can finish it in nearly the same time as PLL if you do one a day with PLL and two a day with OLL.


 
LOL YOU CAN FINISH A LARGER SET IN THE SAME TIME AS A SMALLER SET IF YOU LEARN THE SMALLER SET REALLY SLOWLY


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## freshcuber (Apr 3, 2011)

My point was that neither take much time to learn with only a small amount of work. Three algs a day and you can finish it all in a month. No matter how you break it down neither are that big of a time commitment.


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## Georgeanderre (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm still learning both ... I anticipate to have learned full PLL in a week or so from now and then I can start on full OLL ... think I only know 12 OLLs atm


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## primecuber (Apr 5, 2011)

OLL


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## oll+phase+sync (Apr 5, 2011)

OMGitsSolved said:


> What took you longer to learn? OLL or PLL?


 
I was hoping for a cool suggestion how to learn OLL super fast, when reading this title.

For a most obvious reason I spent much more time learning PLL though.


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## FatBoyXPC (Apr 5, 2011)

I think if I had to do it all over again, PLL would take less than 2 weeks to learn, and OLL would most certainly take 2-3 (at most 3) weeks to learn. There are so many freebies you get when learning both.

PLL:

Half of them are mirrors: Aa/b, Ga/b/c/d, Ja/b, Na/b, Ra/b, Ua/b
That leaves: E, F, V, T, Y, H, Z

If you learn a set of mirrors a day (and non-mirror cases one a day): 14 days

Now come on, that's really easy.

OLL:

I just realized I can't find my text file that I wrote up how to get 30ish "free" OLLs. I'll give some examples though to show how OLL can easily be learned in 2-3 weeks.

You already know a minimum of 9 from 2LOLL, and by expanding on those algorithms you can get those 30ish "free" OLLs. Now that I know that, OLL can certainly be learned in 2-3 weeks if you learn 1 case + its mirror + its inverse + the mirror's inverse (so a total of 4 algs) a day, which is very easy. Fat Sune is a good example of this (Fat Sune, Fat Sune Inverse, Fat Anti-Sune, Fat Anti-Sune Inverse). I realize that not all OLLs can be made into 4 cases, but this quickly knows down the amount you have to learn.


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## Godmil (Apr 5, 2011)

Yeah, there is certainly a way to learn them quickly (which is what I did), and once you've got the system down, it's not actually too hard to go back and swap out a few of the algs for better ones.


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## FatBoyXPC (Apr 5, 2011)

Yes there is, and I really wish i would have known that way when I did it. Now that I know though, I'm happy to share w/others


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## oll+phase+sync (Apr 5, 2011)

fatboyxpc said:


> I realize that not all OLLs can be made into 4 cases, but this quickly knows down the amount you have to learn.



PLL is just 13 algs instead of 21 if you don't count mirrors and inverses. But OLL is the most unsymmetric system I know of if still has 41 unique algorithms. But there's maybe some "fat" Potential.


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## FatBoyXPC (Apr 5, 2011)

Well you can combine a bunch of simple things to learn a lot of OLLs as freebies. The fat versions I mentioned were just a small bit. You can also combine common triggers and setups, do an extra trigger in an alg instead of just once, etc.

For example: Common EO Alg: F SM F', you can do F SM SM F' and get another case, and even a free COLL: F SM SM SM F'. You can also get another free case with f SM SM f' (which is a U2/y2 version of F SM' SM' F'). SM + SH for a free OLL, SH' + SM' for another one. R U2 R' SH R U2 R', the list keeps going. Like I said in that post, when I get home tonight I'll update my post with a link to a text file I wrote that I use to copy and paste into OLL help threads. I think I counted 30ish cases that you can practically get for free. That's only just over half, but many of these OLLs are very easy to learn multiples in a day.

When I attacked OLL I think I did it completely wrong. My recognition was horrible for over a month after I knew the full set. I brute forced a minimum of 4 algs a day until I knew them all (granted this was often times alg + inverse or alg + mirror, but still), and I see so many better ways I could learn it now. I still don't I even know all the handy "tricks" that are known about elsewhere.


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## FatBoyXPC (Apr 7, 2011)

I hate to double post and semi bump, but since the thread is off the main page and it is new information I went for it anyway. It made more sense than just editing my post.

http://fatboy.geekside.com/cube/learnll.txt

I wrote this up for whenever people ask for OLL and PLL help 

So this shows you a total of 34 cases (hopefully I didn't miscount, but there is a possibility that I did) that are pretty much freebies, and I'm sure that isn't the extent of it.

34 freebies...4 of those freebies a day (more are easily do-able)...9 days to learn 34 of those. That leaves you 12 days to learn 23 cases (that still probably have mirrors or something). If you learn 2 cases a day + 2 extra cases on the 9th day from the first set, you can have all of OLL in 3 weeks.

I highly suggest learning OLL in a manner like this. It not only makes it easier, but it also puts it in a nice perspective and keeps a fairly accurate timeline for yourself.

The key to remembering full OLL afterwards is doing a boat load of solves within that month (I'd say 2-3 months after, too) to get comfortable with the new recognition, because you *will* take a hit.


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## ElectricDoodie (Apr 7, 2011)

Wow, thanks for that. 

I'll be learning Full OLL starting next week, so that will come in handy to check.


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## alwynbatican (Apr 7, 2011)

I've learned all OLL's and PLL's in 1 month. 1 PLL and 2 OLL's a day.


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## FatBoyXPC (Apr 7, 2011)

ElectricDoodie said:


> Wow, thanks for that.
> 
> I'll be learning Full OLL starting next week, so that will come in handy to check.


 
No problem  Good luck, it can become difficult but you just gotta stick with it  Just remember that after learning the freebies, watch for triggers. Learn algs by setups + triggers vs a full alg, it makes it much easier.


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## Kirjava (Apr 7, 2011)

I never really learned OLL. One day I was just like "lol I guess I can do full OLL now"


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## NaeosPsy (Apr 7, 2011)

Actually, PLL took me a week, full OLL, - 4 days.  I just learned a big bunch and then solved cube for about 2-3 hours so they go in. Still have to train execution tho.


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## ben1996123 (Apr 7, 2011)

Learnt pll in 2 weeks, oll in 3 years and counting... I dont even know 2 look oll, I dont know a headlights alg, I just do sunes until its solved. And I dont intend to learn them all.


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## cubedude7 (Apr 7, 2011)

OLL, cases were also harder for me to recognize.


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## Jose Rizzato (Apr 12, 2011)

Look, for me, i started with cubes like four months ago, and it took me like 4 weeks to learn all OLL cases, and 2 weeks to learn all the PLL cases.
I learned the Bob Burton´s moves. (www.cubewhiz.com - i dont know what happend whit the site, i tried to enter but i says the service is unavailable)
But they are all similar.
In my expierence, i first learnd a couple of OLL cases, and then learn 3 PLL cases, just to have enough to complete the cube, after that, i finished with the OLL and then the PLL.

Mi best time 41.88
my average 53.52

I use the CCT 0.9.3 it is a chornometer especialized for rubiks solver for pc.


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