# Memory Method Proposal: Condensed Sentences



## riffz (May 13, 2011)

I should start by providing some quick details about how I memorize, so that you can understand my line of thinking. Originally I was using letter pair sounds to memorize edges first, then repeating this auditory loop to myself once or twice while memorizing the corners of the cube visually. What I found is that I am terrible at visual. Even with memorizing just the corners I had to take way too many passes to make memorization stick. So I decided to assign a letter scheme to my corners as well. 

Now, in my opinion there is no doubt that excluding visual, one-syllable letter pair sounds is the fastest method widely used at the moment. So I decided to continue memorizing edges using this method, as its potential in my mind would be slightly wasted to only use it for corners. The current WR holder uses this method for both types of pieces, but I find this very difficult to do. So I decided that I would need to find a slightly more long term memorization method to use for corners. Recently I had been using images placed in a single room, making it easy to memorize corners first and solve them last. However, I recently became frustrated with this method. Images, at least for me, are hard to memorize quickly because they often require creativity and some time to come up with a memorable interaction between them. 

Aronpm is of the opinion that sentences are much superior to images for 3BLD. (He even uses sentences for big cubes and multi as well.) So I decided to give it a try. Even without a pre-memorized list of words, I am finding sentences far superior to images thus far. I have probably done less than 10 attempts using sentences, and already I have broken my personal best by about 20 seconds. However, I feel that a more systematic approach could make this memorization method even faster. Sentences still require creativity and the linking of letter pair words/phrases with others to make a coherent, sensible sentence. Sentence length can vary greatly from solve to solve, depending on how easy it happens to be to the words you use for one letter pair to the next. 

But what if we could take sentences one step further to produce an almost completely brain-dead method that requires absolutely no creativity and creates extremely condensed memorization every time? My proposal is this; a method that uses a predefined sequence of different word types (noun, verbs, adjectives, etc) that would allow you to create a syntactically (but not necessarily semantically) correct phrase or sentence every time, without using ANY additional words in between them, an exception being words like “the, a, an, etc”. This method would be almost as fast and condensed as letter pair sounds, but would stick in your memory for a slightly longer amount of time.

I should note here that whether or not the sentence makes sense is unimportant. The resulting absurdity often makes the sentence even more memorable. For example, SLBUJUGR might yield the phrase “Slippery buildings jump graciously.” Another example is this completely nonsensical but grammatically correct sentence: "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." As you can see, this method is actually very similar to the popular word game “Mad Libs”, and unless someone has put forth a serious proposal similar to this, I am considering adopting this name to describe this method.

I suppose I should provide an example sequence that could be used, although this is only the first one I have come up with:

Adjective , Noun, Verb, Noun, Adverb

SLTHPHRDNV -> Sly (SL) thing (TH) punches (PH) a rod (RD) nervously (NV)

It is important that any number of targets under 10 be able to fit with this structure, as this is the maximum number of targets you can have for corners (excluding ones twisted in place). For example, chopping the last 1 or 2 words off of the above sentence still yields something that flows nicely.
I suppose this method could be extended even further with a sort of flowcharting approach, but I haven’t put much thought to this.

I am curious to hear your opinions, and especially your criticisms of this idea. Keep in mind that this intended to be an advanced method to yield fast memorization and recall times. Complaints about the large number of words you would be required to memorize are hardly worth considering, as anyone who takes BLD seriously should not be put off by memorizing such a list. To solve corners this would require (21 * 18 + 21) * 4 = 1596 different words. Also, many words can be easily modified to form other word types (ie. Quick, quickly), so in reality this is far less daunting than memorizing an equivalently sized list of images.


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## cmhardw (May 13, 2011)

I think it's a very interesting approach. I've heard that sentences can be very fast, but I would want it to be a brain dead approach if I am to try it. From the memory sports masters it can be seen that a list of length 2000-3000 is human manageable, so as long as this method meets or beats that target then it is adoptable.

So are you thinking of making a word list where every pair has a noun, verb, adverb, and adjective? Would that be the place to start? I feel a group, or collaborative, effort would make this method come to reality more quickly than any individual working on it by him/herself.


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## riffz (May 13, 2011)

Yes, I am working on putting together a list, although it's far from complete. Perhaps if there is enough interest we could make a google doc where people can dump their own words and other suggestions.

I fear that an adverb list will be somewhat difficult to compile, or at least to associate with all the different letter pairs.


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## aronpm (May 13, 2011)

cmhardw said:


> So are you thinking of making a word list where every pair has a noun, verb, adverb, and adjective? Would that be the place to start? I feel a group, or collaborative, effort would make this method come to reality more quickly than any individual working on it by him/herself.


 
A noun list can be adapted or copied from a letter pair list, and nouns will too many syllables can be reduced over time. Verb and adjective lists are the most difficult (in my opinion), and an adverb list is almost a carbon copy of an adjective list, like Rob said.

My word list is somewhere in the forum, and that already has a bunch of verbs and adjectives in it. Maybe if I have some time this week I can (start to) write a list of all types. I don't even have a full noun list, I think


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## StachuK1992 (May 13, 2011)

riffz said:


> Yes, I am working on putting together a list, although it's far from complete. Perhaps if there is enough interest we could make a google doc where people can dump their own words and other suggestions.
> 
> I fear that an adverb list will be somewhat difficult to compile, or at least to associate with all the different letter pairs.


Make the google doc. I suggest just letting a few people help so it doesn't get messed with.


[10:59] <+statue> aronpm: ya I tried that "condensed sentences" ideas a while back, but with just adjective noun verb adjective noun
[10:59] <+statue> no need for adverb
[10:59] <+statue> but then I realized I don't do BLD
[10:59] <+aronpm> i thought about posting that order
[10:59] <+aronpm> but didn't 
[11:00] <+statue> it's only 3 things
[11:00] <+aronpm> adverbs are basically adjectivs anyway


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## Micael (May 13, 2011)

I think this is a great idea. It is not new though, ask to Mats. I would like to give sentences a try, because my method is too slow for small amount (at least it scale up very well). Also, I am very curious to see how this method would scale up.

Regarding the collaborative work, it is obviously great. But I am afraid It could not really helps me, because I am not enough fluent/confortable in english, I would need to all do it by myself (I think Mats did it in its own language).


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## Zane_C (May 13, 2011)

Interesting idea. 
At the moment I memorise exactly how you described in the first paragraph. I'm not into 3BLD enough to switch my current memo system though.

In agreement with others, the list will be difficult to construct, but with a joint effort it can be done. (Unless we run out of words in the english language )

The delay of recalling the correct pair may not be much at all. In reference to Chris' post, memory masters are a good examples of just how fast people can translate 'things' into pre-memorised images.


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## riffz (May 13, 2011)

I definitely like the idea of using adjective noun verb adjective noun, but when there are 8 targets it would make sense to translate the adjective into an adverb since it has no subsequent noun to describe.

I've created a spreadsheet, although I don't have the time to fill out all of the letter pairs because I'm at work. I omitted Y and Z because most people don't use them, but we can add them if necessary. I myself use A through V for corners, skipping Q.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...KIiZ9p_4OyZ5U-Ue35U20A&authkey=CM7CxLUD#gid=0


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## Micael (May 13, 2011)

I will also start a list during weekend (in french) just to have an idea of the task ahead.


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## lucarubik (May 13, 2011)

my question is if Gabriel can memorize 10 one silable letter pair sounds, why can't we?


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## riffz (May 13, 2011)

lucarubik said:


> my question is if Gabriel can memorize 10 one silable letter pair sounds, why can't we?


 
I meant to say Alejandro, the current WR holder. Personally I just cant retain that much information in my audio loop without messing up and forgetting stuff a lot.


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## amostay2004 (May 13, 2011)

Does anyone have a clear understanding of how Haiyan Zhuang's memo system is like?


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## Micael (May 13, 2011)

lucarubik said:


> my question is if Gabriel can memorize 10 one silable letter pair sounds, why can't we?


 
Everybody can! I think the point of the idea here is to design a memorable auditory system.

Sentences are more memorable than a string of word. Probably a bit slower for just 10 words as we have to make the sentence, but still fast and probably easier/safer. Also, I think this can perform well for larger amount (big cube and MBLD). I would like to have Aron's opinion about this.


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## uberCuber (May 13, 2011)

lucarubik said:


> my question is if Gabriel can memorize 10 one silable letter pair sounds, why can't we?


 
I would think sentences would be more easily usable for larger amounts of memo than an individual 3x3

EDIT: 1337th post...too bad it wasn't more special


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## lucarubik (May 13, 2011)

I have succesfully used simply words for corners
I dont think this is usefull in a single BLD
mayble a little better than visual or other methods, but doesn't make a diference
of course it would be nice for multiBLD, but improvise is cool for me


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## riffz (May 15, 2011)

I disagree about this not being useful for single BLD. I'm inclined to think lack of semantics would actually make it harder to retain for events like multi or big cubes. The objective here was to create something that was extremely condensed and would stick just a little longer than auditory loop memo.

I'm thinking I will definitely be using 'adjective noun verb adjective noun' unless someone has a better one that I am overlooking. Although a lot of adjectives can double as adverbs easily, there are still a lot of words that don't. Fat is an adjective, but to do something "fatly" doesn't make any sense.

EDIT: Actually, if you continued to use rooms with 3 letter pairs each and did make some effort to visualize an 'adjective noun verb' scenario, I think this would work quite nicely.


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## Hershey (May 15, 2011)

amostay2004 said:


> Does anyone have a clear understanding of how Haiyan Zhuang's memo system is like?


 
This.


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## Zane_C (May 15, 2011)

riffz said:


> I disagree about this not being useful for single BLD.


Same, I thought this was going to be used especially for single BLD.


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## blah (May 15, 2011)

amostay2004 said:


> Does anyone have a clear understanding of how Haiyan Zhuang's memo system is like?


When I asked him a while ago (when he was still competing), he said he only uses letter pairs, citing a specific example: PC = pao cai. I doubt he's radically changed anything.


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## toastman (May 15, 2011)

Heya,

I like this idea. I'm forever filling out a complete PVO spreadsheet, and you do get short sentences (Adam Ant Arches Around Armoured Armadillo / Billy Bunter Brick-Builds Ball Bearings). What you're going to find difficult is coming up with all the verbs. It's really hard. Especially if you restrict yourself to "somatic" verbs like "punches" and "kicks" (although that's more a problem if you're creating images, like I am, rather than sentences).

Although, it can be done.

Try a few google searches for things like "List of verbs beginning with A".

The good thing with this sort of thing is that it's very easy to know what "number" in a sequence you're up to.

Best of luck, would love to see your lists!


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## aronpm (May 15, 2011)

I don't think somatic verbs are necessary, just transitive verbs.


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## riffz (May 15, 2011)

Now that I've been trying this, the adjectives are somewhat difficult to recall, as they are very arbitrary in relation to the noun they describe. Anyone else having a similar difficulty?


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## Erzz (May 15, 2011)

This is almost what I do except I use just single letters and don't plan words. (I use old pochmann)
The sentences are usually easy to remember ('Xenial elephants hide under tables because candycanes eat popcorn' would be XEHUTBCEP)
I make two sentences, one for corners and another for edges. X is usually Xylophone or Xenial. I personally find this method very simple and easy to remember.

Edit: I don't try to imagine the image.


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## riffz (May 15, 2011)

Well yea, tons of people use what you describe, except with letter pairs for each word. The distinguishing feature of this is how condensed it makes the memo.


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## toastman (May 16, 2011)

Can you give us an example of the sort of adjectives you are using? I don't use them now, but seemed to do OK when I was using things like "colours" (A purple watermelon), and things that would definitely "make an object look different". 

I'd apply it to "watermelon" and if it made sense, I'd use it: The sort of things that worked:
Red, slimy, spotty, stripy, holey, glowing, flaming, electrocuted (XC), hovering, battered (as in deep-fried), orbitting, swarming. Or "verbs" like "spewing", "peeing" etc (I looked it up, these are called "Gerunds"). Put the word "watermelon" after each of these, and you should be able to picture it.

Things that don't work so well:
Loud, Stupid, crazy, quiet, boring, tasty, handsome, smelly and verbs like thinking, judging.

While I'm here, Indeed some people say these techniques are overkill for 3BLD, but I find it awesome for multi-BLD and stuff like memoing packs of cards. Trouble is, I have to come up with a lot of these things on the fly. My list is about 1/3 finished (and I need A-Z of people, verbs and objects), which is 2028 words. I do a few cells every day. Takes forever, but it's so going to be worth it!


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## toastman (May 16, 2011)

riffz said:


> Well yea, tons of people use what you describe, except with letter pairs for each word. The distinguishing feature of this is how condensed it makes the memo.



Although it'd be a mammoth task, I also thought of the following. Sort of "chaining" images with a verb.
Person-Verb-Object-VERBING-Person-Verb-Object-VERBING-Person...
Homer Simpson Kicks-a Watermelon SPLATTERING Spiderman Lassooing Fudge (which then) TRIPS Adam Ant
(HS-KC-WM-SP-SM-LS-FJ-TR-AA). The image of the watermelon splattering on spiderman's head means that it's easier to remember the last "object" in the chain than a set of 3 separate PVO images.

Potentially you could throw an adjective before each object, meaning each "group" would be 10 letters. Again, more if you're into memory sports I guess. I've sort of abandoned this approach, could barely come up with 26 "chain-words", let alone 676.

Again, love to hear more of your ideas.


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## Tim Major (May 16, 2011)

I have kind of been using this, but not quite as compressed. I use audio for corners, and short sentences for corners. I use auditory edges on my fast/reckless attempts, but it just isn't reliable. Audio pairs like IU WE UI UE WI WH are too hard to differentiate. I had an idea inspired by Zubon's method, in which he uses Japanese characters. Japanese characters are unique, as they can't change, like our letters can. "ku" is always pronounced "koo", never "ka", so instead of assigning letters to stickers, he assigns sounds (Japanese characters) to stickers, so they usually make words, and if not, they're still memorable sounds, as they don't have silent letters, or letters like C and U which change depending on the preceding letters.
Then I thought of audio loop, with premade pairs, so difficult ones could have something assigned, which is the basic concept here.
If I was ever to take on bld as my main event(s), I would look into learning this, but even a single letter pair list was too much for me. I've been using semi compressed sentences, where you have a 1/2 word filler inbetween some of the groups. I make up an object/person/action for the letter pair, then incorporate it as tightly to the previous one as I can.


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## riffz (May 16, 2011)

toastman said:


> Can you give us an example of the sort of adjectives you are using? I don't use them now, but seemed to do OK when I was using things like "colours" (A purple watermelon), and things that would definitely "make an object look different".
> 
> I'd apply it to "watermelon" and if it made sense, I'd use it: The sort of things that worked:
> Red, slimy, spotty, stripy, holey, glowing, flaming, electrocuted (XC), hovering, battered (as in deep-fried), orbitting, swarming. Or "verbs" like "spewing", "peeing" etc (I looked it up, these are called "Gerunds"). Put the word "watermelon" after each of these, and you should be able to picture it.
> ...


 
Well, as I said in the original post, the sentence doesn't need to make sense. So although it would obviously make things slightly more memorable to use gerunds, I don't think it's necessary. But I'm only planning on using this for 3BLD.



toastman said:


> Although it'd be a mammoth task, I also thought of the following. Sort of "chaining" images with a verb.
> Person-Verb-Object-VERBING-Person-Verb-Object-VERBING-Person...
> Homer Simpson Kicks-a Watermelon SPLATTERING Spiderman Lassooing Fudge (which then) TRIPS Adam Ant
> (HS-KC-WM-SP-SM-LS-FJ-TR-AA). The image of the watermelon splattering on spiderman's head means that it's easier to remember the last "object" in the chain than a set of 3 separate PVO images.


 
As long as you place the images along a linear route, remembering the next set of PVO images shouldn't cause problems anyway. This thread isn't about using images, though.



Tim Major said:


> I have kind of been using this, but not quite as compressed. I use audio for corners, and short sentences for corners. I use auditory edges on my fast/reckless attempts, but it just isn't reliable. Audio pairs like IU WE UI UE WI WH are too hard to differentiate. I had an idea inspired by Zubon's method, in which he uses Japanese characters. Japanese characters are unique, as they can't change, like our letters can. "ku" is always pronounced "koo", never "ka", so instead of assigning letters to stickers, he assigns sounds (Japanese characters) to stickers, so they usually make words, and if not, they're still memorable sounds, as they don't have silent letters, or letters like C and U which change depending on the preceding letters.
> *Then I thought of audio loop, with premade pairs, so difficult ones could have something assigned, which is the basic concept here.*



Not really. This is supposed to stick for a little longer than audio loop because it forms a syntactically correct phrase/sentence. The words don't need to be one syllable either.


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## nickvu2 (May 19, 2011)

Instead of starting a Google Doc, I propose just adding to the existing Letter Pairs wiki page and just tag the words with their part of speech. It might look something like this:

FP

Falcon Punch
Flipper
Frappachino (starbucks bottle)
Fire Place
Face Paints [_verb_]
Face Plants [_verb_]
Face Palms [_verb_]
Frappy [_adj_]
Factory Priced [_adj_]
Fast-paced [_adj_]
Flippantly [_adv_]

In fact, I'm going to add these now =)


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## riffz (May 19, 2011)

I've actually decided against learing/using this for now. I'd prefer to work on a PAO list, as this would still help a lot for 3x3, but even more so for big cubes and multi, which I really want to start practicing.


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## riffz (May 20, 2011)

Okay, I was just practicing and as soon as I started using sentences my times were ~20s faster. So I WILL be using sentences, just not this condensed method. The adjectives screw me up, but I will be making a list of nouns and verbs. Gah.


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## nickvu2 (May 20, 2011)

Yeah, I've always had a hard time with adjectives and adverbs (back when I was using single letter words). After I finish learning my letter pair nouns, I intend to start a verb list. Riffz, even if condensed sentences don't work out, I still find your idea insightful and inspiring, and it's helped define my next step. Cheers =)

PS-please share your verb list when you finish it!


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## riffz (May 20, 2011)

nickvu2 said:


> PS-please share your verb list when you finish it!


 
Will do. I'm not sure when it'll be finished, though.


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