# Perception and thoughts about USA



## mark3 (Sep 2, 2009)

Today in my AP Government class, we were talking about international relations and others perception of America. Some people thought that all other nations hated us, while I thought sentiments were more mixed. We got an assignment to communicate with foreigners to see what other actually thought of the US. I thought this was the perfect place since we have an abundance of international members who are very active. 

Also know that I do not care if you want to say America is the best country in the world, or that we should be nuked off the map. Just know that all comments are valid here. I also might need to take a few quotes, so if you have a problem please say so and I won't quote you, just know that I can't use any names and only about 20 people will ever hear it.

Hope I can get some good discussion going.


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## IamWEB (Sep 2, 2009)

mark3 said:


> thought that all other nations hated us.



Possible response comment: Not Mexico, for sure.

Alternative in case anyone is offended: Even Canada!?


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## gpt_kibutz (Sep 2, 2009)

Well, in my opinion USA has been very important since the times of neocolonialism. However, instead of trying to help the new independent countries to get their own government; all that americans did was to take advantage of the natural resources of the third world countries (principally south america). They keep on doing this, and they dont allow governments to decide on their own policies and laws. An example of this is that in many countries there is not a formal law against unmeasured cut of trees (due to the pressure that american companies stablish on the governments). 
Another fact that make many countries dislike american is racism. Although civil war is over, and with that slavery is over too; it was not until the 40's that african american people earned rights. However, discrimination towards latins, arabs, homosexual, etc; still continues. This is something that in my country is very present, as there are a lot of immigrants that cross the border looking for a better job, but the only thing they get is discrimination. 

Another reason is the constant intervention of the US government in other countries, such as Vietnam, Iraq, etc. They argue that it is their right to fight for democracy; but I think that is not completely true. In Vietnam, Korea etc, US was scared of the communist doctrine invading this "neutral" zone and thus, interfere with its interests. The so called war against terrorism is not more than a lie to gain the "right" to invade oil-rich countries.


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## Inf3rn0 (Sep 2, 2009)

I have a high opinion of USA. I like the fact that you are somewhat futher along? and i feel without you many of our (New Zealands) exports may fail. However i am no expert. 
I think along the lines of "In todays world USA wears the pants." please quote this from me .

Edit: Changed america to USA


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## LNZ (Sep 2, 2009)

The American people are nice people. 

But the USA became very much hated worldwide when G.W.Bush was president. His Texas style of doing things didn't work when extended to the whole world and actually aided the terrorist's side alot. The invasion of Iraq was the biggest promo for holy jihad the terrorists could get. And the lies he told about Iraq's alleged WMD's angered the islamic world and trusted allies badly.

I'm glad that G.W.Bush is gone. And the new USA president has relaised that to defeat the war on terror, we need full international cooperation and that inclides the islamic world in Asia, and not division. And in the case of Afghanistan and Iraq, we need to win both the hearts and minds ofthe local population. Something G.W.Bush forgot to do.

In many polls in Europe, people were asked what you thought was the number #1 country that supported and aided terrorism worldwide. Their answer was all the same. It was the USA by a big margin.


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## V-te (Sep 2, 2009)

I think the USA forgot it's purpose of existence.
Everybody in this country thought we were great because we were able to defeat Britain. (With the helps of France and Spain. BTW)
The purpose of this country was to be free, and stop the horrible government that the people were under. Unfortunately, I think we are back to were we were more than 200 years ago. It really is sad to see how Pride destroys a nation.


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## lala47 (Sep 2, 2009)

I just want to make a little comment.

The fact that you call yourselves "america" doesn't really help. Since America is a continent, not a single country (Even "north american" isn't really correct, sincle mexico and canada are part of northamerica also), i know you people have been raised being called "americans", but anyway that is something that many people, specially in south america, consider very arrogant.


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## Lorenzo (Sep 2, 2009)

lala47 said:


> I just want to make a little comment.
> 
> The fact that you call yourselves "america" doesn't really help. Since America is a continent, not a single country (Even "north american" isn't really correct, sincle mexico and canada are part of northamerica also), i know you people have been raised being called "americans", but anyway that is something that many people, specially in south america, consider very arrogant.



Well, sometimes it takes too long to say "I'm a citizen on the USA."

As for my thoughts, something that has bothered me for a while--

Some people in the USA think about terrorists when they hear the word "Muslim." I hate that. A Muslim is a follower of Islam, the second most practiced religion in the world.

Also, some people think terrorism is a joke, or make jokes about it. There is *NOTHING* funny about terrorism.

Another thing, if you think that slavery is over in the USA..
ever heard of Human Traffik? It exists ALL OVER THE GLOBE.
http://www.stopthetraffik.org/default.aspx


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## Bryan (Sep 2, 2009)

lala47 said:


> I just want to make a little comment.
> 
> The fact that you call yourselves "america" doesn't really help. Since America is a continent, not a single country (Even "north american" isn't really correct, sincle mexico and canada are part of northamerica also), i know you people have been raised being called "americans", but anyway that is something that many people, specially in south america, consider very arrogant.



Searching BBC news site....searching Brazilian news site......searching Canadian news site......searching Australian new site.....searching German news site....searching Argentinian news site. Oh, everyone* calls us "American".

*- Not literally everyone, but it's not just us.


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## Bomber (Sep 2, 2009)

Basically a a widely held idea in the UK about America is the price of living being considerably lower. I don't mean anything by this and I don't want to get into any arguments but you always seem to get things ridiculously cheap yet still complain. My experience of this comes from both forums but, which is possibly more valid, reality TV from the USA. Just yesterday I watched a piece of reality TV where it was showing apparently rich people in New Jersey with their 'Million Dollar Mansions', that may be a lot in New Jersey but somewhere like Edinburgh or London one million dollars will just about buy you a 2 bedroom flat.

Another example is from the Video Game market, here in England a new release will cost around $80.00. In America you will be paying much closer to $60. I have seen people constantly complain about the $60 price tag claiming that they will have to wait until it gets down to $20. Generally, in the Video Game market, dollars equal pounds: A PSP Go! will cost either $250 in the USA or £250 in the UK, that's right, we pay $405! And please don't tell me "It's the taxes" or "You're richer", that is a ridiculous comment that spans very little of the population.

You might also like to know that quite a few Brits fly all the way to New York just to do a bit of Christmas shopping, that's how cheap stuff is!


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## (X) (Sep 2, 2009)

Things I dislike with Americans/America: 

Americans don't know what football is.


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## mark3 (Sep 2, 2009)

(X) said:


> Things I dislike with Americans/America:
> 
> Americans don't know what football is.



I would have to say that is not totally our fault. In London in the 1800's, they made something called Association Football to make a version of football where you could not carry the ball. Another school named rugby came up with their version of football where you could carry the ball. Association Football was shortened to Assoc. Footbal and later to Socca' Football. There were basically two version, one of which caught on in the US.

And thanks for all the comments. Keep them coming!


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## masterofthebass (Sep 2, 2009)

Bomber said:


> Basically a a widely held idea in the UK about America is the price of living being considerably lower. I don't mean anything by this and I don't want to get into any arguments but you always seem to get things ridiculously cheap yet still complain. My experience of this comes from both forums but, which is possibly more valid, reality TV from the USA. Just yesterday I watched a piece of reality TV where it was showing apparently rich people in New Jersey with their 'Million Dollar Mansions', that may be a lot in New Jersey but somewhere like Edinburgh or London one million dollars will just about buy you a 2 bedroom flat.
> 
> Another example is from the Video Game market, here in England a new release will cost around $80.00. In America you will be paying much closer to $60. I have seen people constantly complain about the $60 price tag claiming that they will have to wait until it gets down to $20. Generally, in the Video Game market, dollars equal pounds: A PSP Go! will cost either $250 in the USA or £250 in the UK, that's right, we pay $405! And please don't tell me "It's the taxes" or "You're richer", that is a ridiculous comment that spans very little of the population.
> 
> You might also like to know that quite a few Brits fly all the way to New York just to do a bit of Christmas shopping, that's how cheap stuff is!




In the UK, you also make more than us on average. Also, London is obviously a very pricy real estate market, and so is NYC. The apartment I have in Pittsburgh (a studio) is probably worth almost $700,000 in New York. I also do know friends who come and shop in new york, but that is also partly because the flights from London -> JFK are so outrageously cheap.


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## brunson (Sep 2, 2009)

lala47 said:


> I just want to make a little comment.
> 
> The fact that you call yourselves "america" doesn't really help. Since America is a continent, not a single country (Even "north american" isn't really correct, sincle mexico and canada are part of northamerica also), i know you people have been raised being called "americans", but anyway that is something that many people, specially in south america, consider very arrogant.


The interesting thing is that most of the people I know in the US don't call our country America, we call it the United States, usually dropping the "of America" part completely. I listen to a lot of international news and media. Far more people from other countries call us America than we do, ourselves.


(X) said:


> Things I dislike with Americans/America:
> 
> Americans don't know what football is.


You're spelling it wrong, it's "fútbol"_. 
_


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## (X) (Sep 2, 2009)

brunson said:


> lala47 said:
> 
> 
> > I just want to make a little comment.
> ...



Actually in norwegian we call the version were you use your feet for "fotball", and the other version for "amerikansk fotball", meaning american football


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## MichaelErskine (Sep 3, 2009)

Yeah we hate the USA -- but we love the USA too! Pity we can't have the good without the bad


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## IamWEB (Sep 3, 2009)

Bomber said:


> Basically a a widely held idea in the UK about America is the price of living being considerably lower. I don't mean anything by this and I don't want to get into any arguments but you always seem to get things ridiculously cheap yet still complain. My experience of this comes from both forums but, which is possibly more valid, reality TV from the USA. Just yesterday I watched a piece of reality TV where it was showing apparently rich people in New Jersey with their 'Million Dollar Mansions', that may be a lot in New Jersey but somewhere like Edinburgh or London one million dollars will just about buy you a 2 bedroom flat.
> 
> Another example is from the Video Game market, here in England a new release will cost around $80.00. In America you will be paying much closer to $60. I have seen people constantly complain about the $60 price tag claiming that they will have to wait until it gets down to $20. Generally, in the Video Game market, dollars equal pounds: A PSP Go! will cost either $250 in the USA or £250 in the UK, that's right, we pay $405! And please don't tell me "It's the taxes" or "You're richer", that is a ridiculous comment that spans very little of the population.
> 
> You might also like to know that quite a few Brits fly all the way to New York just to do a bit of Christmas shopping, that's how cheap stuff is!



Many of us complain because prices are rising, and they are getting much higher than 'normal' or what they used to be not long ago. This is problem because we have to spend more to get the same things, which no one likes.

And it's not like the rich are becoming less rich (which would still suck), because the average American does not get to buy things 'ridiculously cheaper'. That is only in comparison to _your_ country. Here in America's economy, it's not ridiculously cheap when it's not as easy to get by or stay stable or average as it used to be.

You may say our economic in general is better, but ours still isn't in the best shape itself, so I feel we have a right to complain (if people are really trying and still struggling, not the lazy and lousy ones).


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## Escher (Sep 3, 2009)

There's a lot about America I like (the constitution pretty much owns), but a lot I don't like, mostly based on the general political leaning and economic culture, the imperialistic behaviour over the past few decades, supplying terrorist groups that were anti-communist during the cold war (and supplying Saddam with weapons before realising he wasn't actually a nice guy), the refusal to sign the kyoto agreement, the massive gun culture, the embargo against cuba (and the bullying of nations that traded with cuba), the large inequality between rich and poor, lack of a proper healthcare system, the fact that they get loads of stuff cheaper than us (windows 7 anyone? $149 and £149 for exactly the same product?), etc etc.

Basically, I'm too left wing to like much of it.
btw, I'm not completely anti-America, the list of things i can think of that i don't like about Britain is easily longer, and I really like lots of elements of the political system and early history of the US (Tom Paine rocks my socks).


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## blade740 (Sep 3, 2009)

I say "American" because there's no easier way to say "United Statesian"


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## Bryan (Sep 3, 2009)

Bomber said:


> Another example is from the Video Game market, here in England a new release will cost around $80.00. In America you will be paying much closer to $60. I have seen people constantly complain about the $60 price tag claiming that they will have to wait until it gets down to $20. Generally, in the Video Game market, dollars equal pounds: A PSP Go! will cost either $250 in the USA or £250 in the UK, that's right, we pay $405! And please don't tell me "It's the taxes" or "You're richer", that is a ridiculous comment that spans very little of the population.
> 
> You might also like to know that quite a few Brits fly all the way to New York just to do a bit of Christmas shopping, that's how cheap stuff is!



It may very well be the taxes. Your VAT is 15%, so that's double the sales tax here. But it's not as simple as that. Your fuel tax is around $3.49/gallon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_tax#United_Kingdom), just for the tax. In the US, it's $0.45/gallon. How do you think those games get from the manufacturer to the store? So moving all these things around costs more, so the price of stuff is greater. Also looking at that link "Jet fuel used for international aviation attracts no duty, and no VAT." That would explain why it's so cheap to fly from London to NYC.


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## Jokerman5656 (Sep 3, 2009)

lets all get together and make our own cubing country  Cube-gea (pangea reference)


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## hillary (Sep 4, 2009)

Here in Germany I would say that people don't really hate the USA, it has rather become an object of ridicule. There are so many things that seem stupid compared to European conditions. for example do the USA have one of the unfairest health care systems in the world, USA started war in the Middle East, they did not sign the Kyoto treaty, there was a lot of commotion about the legitimacy of Bush's election (had this happened in a third world country the president would have been accused of fraud), people are getting fatter and fatter, university education is way too expensive, the list goes on forever. In Europe people like to point their fingers and give a :fp at stupid Americans. Americans didn't do us any harm but it just makes us feel better to blame the USA for everything that is going wrong in the world. 

This may be a little bit off topic but I've taken module on Esperanto last year at university and it included a lecture about the language situation in the world right now. A lot of people complain that English is the dominant language in the world and that native speakers of English have a huge advantage over non native speakers. They can access information more easily over the internet, can lead business negotiation more confidently, make themselves heard, etc
I really think it is good to have one language that a lot of people speak, so that people from all over world can communicate, but, honestly, why does it have to be English?


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## mark3 (Sep 4, 2009)

hillary said:


> Here in Germany I would say that people don't really hate the USA, it has rather become an object of ridicule. There are so many things that seem stupid compared to European conditions. for example do the USA have one of the unfairest health care systems in the world, USA started war in the Middle East, they did not sign the Kyoto treaty, there was a lot of commotion about the legitimacy of Bush's election (had this happened in a third world country the president would have been accused of fraud), people are getting fatter and fatter, university education is way too expensive, the list goes on forever. In Europe people like to point their fingers and give a :fp at stupid Americans. Americans didn't do us any harm but it just makes us feel better to blame the USA for everything that is going wrong in the world.
> 
> This may be a little bit off topic but I've taken module on Esperanto last year at university and it included a lecture about the language situation in the world right now. A lot of people complain that English is the dominant language in the world and that native speakers of English have a huge advantage over non native speakers. They can access information more easily over the internet, can lead business negotiation more confidently, make themselves heard, etc
> I really think it is good to have one language that a lot of people speak, so that people from all over world can communicate, but, honestly, why does it have to be English?



I think that English being a primary world language was something that just happened. English speaking counties have pretty much been the most powerful world leaders over the last 500 years or more. If the French would have came to America and colonized it like the English did and the same situations occured, we might all be speaking French now. 

I differ from ost Americans in that I see it as unfair that we expect other countries to understand and learn English. Thats why I have been learning Spanish throughout high school and why I am going to minor in linguistic. I have been starting on some French in my own time, and once I get Spanish and French down, Italian should come easier. Then I'll do some German that will help me learn some Dutch later on (at least I think they are kind of similar).

I tend to believe that the US government needs a facelift. All politicians are run by companies. We can see that now while Barack Obama is practically giving up on the public option. I was a huge supporter of him, but it makes me mad to see that he can't do one thing that he promised during his campaign. But then again, I'm also stuck in a world where I am a liberal in a relaivley conservative country.


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## Shmekekey (Sep 4, 2009)

hillary said:


> *there was a lot of commotion about the legitimacy of Bush's election (had this happened in a third world country the president would have been accused of fraud)*



A lot of people questioned him in America too...



mark3 said:


> I tend to believe that the US government needs a facelift. All politicians are run by companies. We can see that now while Barack Obama is practically giving up on the public option. I was a huge supporter of him, but it makes me mad to see that he can't do one thing that he promised during his campaign. But then again, I'm also stuck in a world where I am a liberal in a relaivley conservative country.



Dude, it hasn't even been a year yet. How can you expect him to fix any of the ******** Bush left behind in 9 months?


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## Jason (Sep 4, 2009)

There are great things that came out from the USA; the first labor movements, the abolishment of slavery... The USA is actually the country with the greatest freedom of speech, but there are a lot of darker things. The USA is a jingoist/imperialist country where disires of world domination have been clearly expressed by such people as Rumsfeld in military documents. The USA has a history of overthrowing governments, starting with the banana republic.
Also, apart from South Africa, The USA is the only country in the Western world without a proper social security program.
US media is intellectually conformist and from the outside, it seems that many americans are endoctrinated with the belief that no-holds-barred short-termist unsustainable capitalism is the only viable solution.
I equally see that power is concentrated and is very close to the coorporate world, manipulating the people through sophisticated human relationship campains (but that's everywhere else as well, but to a lesser degree).
Of course, today, the majority of americans favor a more reasonable society, but there is a lack of organising and social movements.
But the american people themselves are no deifferent from the rest of us, they bleed when they're cut, they cry when their children die...


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## lala47 (Sep 4, 2009)

Bryan said:


> Searching BBC news site....searching Brazilian news site......searching Canadian news site......searching Australian new site.....searching German news site....searching Argentinian news site. Oh, everyone* calls us "American".
> 
> *- Not literally everyone, but it's not just us.



The fact that it is extended, doesn't make it right.



Bomber said:


> Another example is from the Video Game market, here in England a new release will cost around $80.00. In America you will be paying much closer to $60. I have seen people constantly complain about the $60 price tag claiming that they will have to wait until it gets down to $20. Generally, in the Video Game market, dollars equal pounds: A PSP Go! will cost either $250 in the USA or £250 in the UK, that's right, we pay $405! And please don't tell me "It's the taxes" or "You're richer", that is a ridiculous comment that spans very little of the population.
> 
> You might also like to know that quite a few Brits fly all the way to New York just to do a bit of Christmas shopping, that's how cheap stuff is!



Same thing here, usually 1USD turns into 1,000CLP for example when the ps3 was just released, it cost about 500USD right? here in Chile it was like 599,990CLP, if you are wandering, the actual conversion rate is about 1USD=~550CLP. But that's something that may cause jealousy to someone, but not actually hatred,


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## V-te (Sep 4, 2009)

Shmekekey said:


> hillary said:
> 
> 
> > *there was a lot of commotion about the legitimacy of Bush's election (had this happened in a third world country the president would have been accused of fraud)*
> ...



Thank you! Finally somebody who understands that the presidency is 4 YEARS LONG.


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## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

mark3 said:


> first post



I'm Candian. I don't hate America I hate American's though... (Kidding). The thing I hate is that you guys are so strict about imagrents. Seriously! And your government system is awful, it takes almost a year for an election to ride out. I also don't like the fact that many Americans think that America is the last remaining super power in the world. I wouldn't say that: Look at Canada, China, Russia, Germany and many other countries! I also don't like the fact that you guys have a **** load of nukes and CONSTANTLY ask other countries to dispose of theirs to make a "Nuke free world". BULL! I doubt America would dispose of their nukes. I don't give a **** if the other countries are more "dangerous". Hell, I'm Jewish and part Israeli, I don't like the fact that we are considered "dangerous" with nukes, its complete ****. Look at it this way: The USA isn't bad, just some of their ideas are. And its POP not SODA! :| 
You can quote me on that.


Edit: I also dislike your gun laws and your school system . Thanks for ready ...


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## anythingtwisty (Sep 5, 2009)

Jason said:


> The USA has a history of overthrowing governments, starting with the banana republic.


Finally, someone mentions this! This is one thing the government has DEFINITELY tried to keep quiet.


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## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> And your government system is awful, it takes almost a year for an election to ride out.



Timeline of the 2008 Presidential Election
11/4/08 12:00AM EST: The First Polls Open in some small towns on the East Coast
11/4/08 11:00PM EST: Polls on the West Coast Close, Barack Obama surpasses the needed 270 electoral votes to win. John McCain concedes defeat.


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## DavidWoner (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> I'm Candian.



You're what?



krazedkat said:


> The thing I hate is that you guys are so strict about imagrents.



About what?



krazedkat said:


> I also don't like the fact that many Americans think that America is the last remaining super power in the world. I wouldn't say that



Neither would anyone I have ever talked to EVER.



krazedkat said:


> I also don't like the fact that you guys have a **** load of nukes and CONSTANTLY ask other countries to dispose of theirs to make a "Nuke free world".



Really? I thought we asked countries to dispose of their nukes because they had shown clear intent or outright stated a desire to use them against other countries. But maybe I'm wrong. Oh wait, I'm not.



krazedkat said:


> And its POP not SODA!



Actually it isn't. Read a book sometime.



krazedkat said:


> I also dislike ... your school system . Thanks for ready ...


This speaks for itself.


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## Kian (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> mark3 said:
> 
> 
> > first post
> ...



So many, many things are wrong here.

1) You're silly if you think any superpower comes close to the United States right now, and the fact that you put Canada on the list of other potential superpowers is indicative of your lack of education on the matter. The US has a GDP that is more than 1/5 of the GDP of the world. And the US has, far and away, the most powerful military on the planet. Our language is the language of business, our corporations are spread worldwide. There is no doubt that the US if the only superpower in the world at present. China is rising Russia is falling hard, and Canada is a silly suggestion. Not even remotely close. Germany is an important nation, for sure, but they don't exercise nearly the global hand in economics or military prowess the US does.

2) We try to keep nukes out of the hands of people like Kim-Jong-Il and others because it behooves us and the rest of the world. We are so often the fall guy b/c we have to be the force that leads things. And it's within those countries interests to obtain nukes. That's how the world works, you do whats best for yourself, because nobody else will.

3) Education? Our universities are the envy of the world. We have many of the top facilities and minds in the world. Great thinkers from all over the world come to the US to study and teach more so than anywhere else.

4) Your Israel comment, like much of your rambling, was completely unintelligible.

5) Immigration? We have nearly 21% of the immigrants in the world, making up approximately 13% of our entire population. That's about 1 in 8 people. We welcome many people to the most diverse country in the world. If you're referring to our problem with ILLEGAL immigration, well that's just silly. Obviously we want to apply some sort of procedure for entering the country. For many reason it makes very little sense not to know who is here.

6) Our second amendment reads "the right of the people to keep and bear arms should not be infringed." We believe in the right to defend ourselves and rebel against a tyrannical government when necessary. Thank God we weren't disarmed by the British in the 1700s like the citizens of more modern tyrannies are. People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.

7) It is obviously soda. You and the entire Midwestern portion of the United States are wrong.

8) This is actually worst than your BS thread about having no method to solve the 2x2, you just see the whole thing and can solve it in 3 seconds. Don't think we've forgotten.

To all:
I'm happy to live in the most prosperous country in the history of the world, in a place where I feel safe, and a country where I enjoy more freedoms than anywhere else in the world. The US was born by a distrust in government and a passion for individual liberty, and we are not apologetic about our belief in that. 

This thread is just about the most unbelievable display of global ignorance I've ever seen. You make rash comments about a world many of you know very little about. Stop making the US out to be your biggest problem. It's like hating the Yankees because they're good.


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## gpt_kibutz (Sep 5, 2009)

DavidWoner said:


> krazedkat said:
> 
> 
> > I'm Candian.
> ...



Those kind of attitudes make me dislike americans...


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## DavidWoner (Sep 5, 2009)

luisgepeto said:


> Those kind of attitudes make me dislike americans...



What kind of attitude? Sarcasm in the face of someone who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about?


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## qqwref (Sep 5, 2009)

Don't think I have any problem with people who criticize my country. There are just a few things I felt should be said:
- English is a pretty good candidate for a global language in my opinion. Sure, it's got some pretty weird spelling, but look what it has that most other candidates don't have: it's relatively easy to type and to read and write (compare to Chinese and many Indian languages), it's already well-used (compare to Esperanto), and it's really really popular already (compare to everything but Mandarin, Hindi/Urdu, and arguably Spanish). The spelling problems will even themselves out soon enough. Besides, it's not even our fault - blame the British for taking over half of the world 

- I can understand being somewhat annoyed at silly things like stuff costing less in the USA, us calling a dumb sport football, us calling ourselves American when there is no better and similarly short word, etc., but HATING the country for it?

- Have a problem with the American government? Yeah, we (USA citizens) do too. For the most part it isn't our fault (the US has a big right-wing heavily Christian demographic that can cause the gov't to lean towards stuff like being anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-alcohol/drugs, etc. even if most urban or highly-educated people don't support that). President Bush has had one of the lowest approval ratings ever, with (in one poll) only 25% of people saying they liked what he was doing, and 71% saying they didn't like it (4% were undecided). Just remember that in this case hating the government shouldn't translate to hating the citizens.

- re krazedkat's "And its POP not SODA!": you're kidding, right? It's a regional variant. Some areas in the US call it pop, some call it soda, some call it coke fp). Other areas have their own terms. (See .) Having a problem with the entire USA because certain areas of the country call soft drinks soda is as ridiculous as having a problem with everyone who has dark skin just because there are a few dark-skinned people that you don't like.


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## gpt_kibutz (Sep 5, 2009)

DavidWoner said:


> luisgepeto said:
> 
> 
> > Those kind of attitudes make me dislike americans...
> ...



No, I'm refering to the belief that many americans think they live in a superior country; and therefore they are superior men that can humiliate others in any way.


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## qqwref (Sep 5, 2009)

luisgepeto said:


> DavidWoner said:
> 
> 
> > luisgepeto said:
> ...



That's just arrogance. It is a personality trait, not an attribute of everyone from a country of 300 million.
AND I DON'T LIKE HOW PEOPLE FROM YOUR COUNTRY ALWAYS GENERALIZE
There are plenty of people who aren't from America who are arrogant and nationalistic, too.


----------



## gpt_kibutz (Sep 5, 2009)

qqwref said:


> luisgepeto said:
> 
> 
> > No, I'm refering to the belief that *many *americans think they live in a superior country; and therefore they are superior men that can humiliate others in any way.
> ...



Did I say everyone?


----------



## edd5190 (Sep 5, 2009)

luisgepeto said:


> DavidWoner said:
> 
> 
> > luisgepeto said:
> ...



*searches David's post for anything similar to "I live in a superior contry; and therefore I am a superior superior man that can humiliate others in any way."*

Nothing. David would've said the same thing if he lived in any other country. David not being in the US wouldn't have made krazedkat any more correct.


----------



## DavidWoner (Sep 5, 2009)

luisgepeto said:


> DavidWoner said:
> 
> 
> > luisgepeto said:
> ...



What makes you think you know my beliefs based on a few sentences on a forum? I don't believe anything of the sort, and I find it extremely presumptuous of you to say so. It doesn't matter what country I or somebody else is from, if they are going to be blatantly incorrect and still act like they know what they are talking about, then I am going to say something about it. 

I am extremely bothered by people who outright assume Americans think they are better than everyone else. If you have a legitimate issue with America or Americans than feel free to bring it up. However, if you are going to continue making offensive remarks based on stereotypes then this conversation is over.


----------



## vvtopkar (Sep 5, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Don't think I have any problem with people who criticize my country. There are just a few things I felt should be said:
> - English is a pretty good candidate for a global language in my opinion. Sure, it's got some pretty weird spelling, but look what it has that most other candidates don't have: it's relatively easy to type and to read and write (compare to Chinese and many Indian languages), it's already well-used (compare to Esperanto), and it's really really popular already (compare to everything but Mandarin, Hindi/Urdu, and arguably Spanish). The spelling problems will even themselves out soon enough. Besides, it's not even our fault - blame the British for taking over half of the world



Hm, I've never thought of that. I guess Hindi/Urdu would actually be a good candidate. Many Middle-Easterners know Urdu (which is almost te exact same as Hindi, except for the script). It would cover all Indians, Nepalis, Middle-Easterners. Which covers a good 2 Billion people (at least).


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> krazedkat said:
> 
> 
> > And your government system is awful, it takes almost a year for an election to ride out.
> ...


:fp
Including the time it takes them to campaign!


----------



## Sa967St (Sep 5, 2009)

lala47 said:


> Since America is a continent...



Isn't it 2 continents?



lala47 said:


> (Even "north american" isn't really correct, sincle mexico and canada are part of northamerica also)


there are more than 3 countries in North America...


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > krazedkat said:
> ...



THAT ISN'T PART OF HOW LONG AN ELECTION TAKES TO RIDE OUT

YOU LOSE
YOU GET NOTHING
GOOD DAY SIR


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

Kian;233891
To all:
[B said:


> I'm happy to live in the most prosperous country in the history of the world, in a place where I feel safe, and a country where I enjoy more freedoms than anywhere else in the world.[/B] _The US was born by a distrust in government and a passion for individual liberty, and we are not apologetic about our belief in that. _



The bolded part I must disagree with. Have you ever noticed that the USA doesn't make up the entire free world. Actually Americans have less freedoms than some other countries. In freedoms Canada and the USA are nearly tied.

The itallic part I can understand, sure you broke away from Britian because of their insane taxes (I still believe that now you pay not enough but whatever...)


On an ending note: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how stupid you may think it is, most people don't find the USA as the best place on earth. Your thinking is simply warped because you haven't tasted the freedoms of other countries.



Edit:
@Sa967St:
You're wrong. It consists of 3. Canada, the USA and Mexico.


----------



## JBCM627 (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> You're wrong. It consists of 3. Canada, the USA and Mexico.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America#Countries_and_territories


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

JBCM627 said:


> krazedkat said:
> 
> 
> > You're wrong. It consists of 3. Canada, the USA and Mexico.
> ...


Yes. But the majority of those are owned by other countries. 

@luisgepeto:
thank you for your input


----------



## Sa967St (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Edit:
> @Sa967St:
> You're wrong. It consists of 3. Canada, the USA and Mexico.


-1

The Carribean Islands and the countries in Central America are a part of North America too.

So NA would also include: Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Panama, Bahamas, Dominican Republic, Dominica, St Lucia, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Grenada, Trinidad and Tobago, St Kitts and Nevis, Haiti, and Jamaica. There are a few more, but I can't remember them right now.

edit: I forgot about Cuba, Antigua and Barbuda and Barbados

http://www.sporcle.com/games/northamerica.php


----------



## qqwref (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> On an ending note: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how stupid you may think it is, most people don't find the USA as the best place on earth. Your thinking is simply warped because you haven't tasted the freedoms of other countries.



Everyone is indeed entitled to have opinions, but that doesn't mean they automatically have the freedom to never be made fun of for them. (By the way, saying something that is factually wrong, i.e. North America has 3 countries, is NOT an opinion.)

Incidentally, what does freedom taste like?


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

No, I am not. Don't call me stupid. All I did was input my thoughts about America and then a HUGE war erupts!? WTF? Screw you. I don't care if you think I am stupid. I believe that I live in a wonderful country. I don't really give a CRAP if you have some Liberal crap or whatever. I live in a country that is a democracy (much like yours) but without lots of the people (XD). Yes we may have less people but so what. This does not mean that we are less powerful, sure we are but that is beside the point. It doesn't give you the right to be snide about your freedoms or anything. We have almost the same freedoms that you do.


----------



## mark3 (Sep 5, 2009)

V-te said:


> Shmekekey said:
> 
> 
> > hillary said:
> ...



I didn't say he hasn't done anything. He promised a public option and now he is giving up on it. If they fussed and made a scene like Republicans always do, then they could push it through congress easily.


----------



## qqwref (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> This does not mean that we are less powerful, sure we are but that is beside the point.



Oh.


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Incidentally, what does freedom taste like?



Oddly, its tastless. Ever heard of a metaphor?


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> No, I am not. Don't call me stupid. All I did was input my thoughts about America and then a HUGE war erupts!? WTF? Screw you. I don't care if you think I am stupid. I believe that I live in a wonderful country. I don't really give a CRAP if you have some Liberal crap or whatever. I live in a country that is a democracy (much like yours) but without lots of the people (XD). Yes we may have less people but so what. This does not mean that we are less powerful, sure we are but that is beside the point. It doesn't give you the right to be snide about your freedoms or anything. We have almost the same freedoms that you do.



I was actually calling you stupid because you said there were only three countries in North America and then claim.e the other ~20 don't count because a few territories of other countries exist in North America. That's why I quoted WHAT YOU SAID. I don't know how to make it any clearer that the fact that I think you're stupid is based around your complete rejection of fact, but I'm sure you will somehow fail to understand this post and whine about how Canada is a free country.


----------



## DavidWoner (Sep 5, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Incidentally, what does freedom taste like?



Like this.





(for those who can't tell I'm kidding:

I'm kidding.)


----------



## Sa967St (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Ever heard of a medaphor?


 no


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> krazedkat said:
> 
> 
> > No, I am not. Don't call me stupid. All I did was input my thoughts about America and then a HUGE war erupts!? WTF? Screw you. I don't care if you think I am stupid. I believe that I live in a wonderful country. I don't really give a CRAP if you have some Liberal crap or whatever. I live in a country that is a democracy (much like yours) but without lots of the people (XD). Yes we may have less people but so what. This does not mean that we are less powerful, sure we are but that is beside the point. It doesn't give you the right to be snide about your freedoms or anything. We have almost the same freedoms that you do.
> ...



a) it is a free country
b) my mistake, sorry


----------



## daniel0731ex (Sep 5, 2009)

Q:so, what do you think of Bush??
Terrorist: oh yeah..i love the bushes......oh wait, you meant the president!!


----------



## qqwref (Sep 5, 2009)

because this thread needs some more comedy


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

Since I moved to Canada at age 10 I missed the core geo studies.


----------



## gpt_kibutz (Sep 5, 2009)

Sa967St said:


> lala47 said:
> 
> 
> > Since America is a continent...
> ...



Why do people think that america is two different continents?
I was thaught in school that it was only one, but separated into 3 regions (north, central and south). I guess that it is the country's own choosing to include itself and others in norh or south america. (In mexico, we think we believe that we belong to the north part, but i've known many people who say that mexico is part of central america).

BTW my apologies to David Woner.


----------



## PatrickJameson (Sep 5, 2009)

luisgepeto said:


> Why do people think that america is two different continents?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas


----------



## Forte (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm from Canada and I saw practically no difference between here and the US when I went to Nationals, except that they had newer reruns of Friends, so that ruined that particular episode of that particular season for me. I GUESS THAT MEANS THAT THE US IS BAD!  But seriously, the distinctions are so minimal that your mindset will influence your opinion the most about the country. Personally, I just think of it as Canada with more people.

Also, when I went to Costa Rica, they DID have a clear distinction between "from America" and "from the US". In Spanish, a person from America (the continent) is Americano, and a person from the US is Estadounidense (Unitedstatesian). Just so you know.


----------



## Paul Wagner (Sep 5, 2009)

Please David, I'm begging you please don't close this thread I love it so much. 

And 2 things.

1A. To all the people saying "I dislike Americans because _____" 
90% of those reasons are things we can't control such as laws. And just because you don't like them doesn't mean we should fix them so it makes you just as bad as us except worse because you're so stupid you can't even realize that your argument won't make a difference.

1B. Also to all the people out there saying "I dislike Americans because____." makes you even worse than we are because you say you dislike us for a reason that gets completely contradicted by your own statement. Let me use this perfect example, "I dislike Americans because they are ignorant." Is so ignorant by itself, because you are labeling a whole country after something.

2. The people here are no different from wherever you are, they're all idiots who don't care anything of what you have to do. And also, even if you speak highly of Americans its just useless because your wrong to. And foreigners please don't say most Americans, because 99% of people are the same so there is really hardly any difference between any of us at all. But back to the statement please don't say most because that's just as bad as saying all because I'm a long-haired blue-eyed American boy so don't say all Americans are the same.


And by the way, you just got face-palmed.


----------



## mark3 (Sep 5, 2009)

I think everyone should note that this thread is about perceptions of the USA and Americans, not tell whats wrong with the US and please provide facts. 

You can continue your discusion by all means (it's awesome ), but maybe some more people could give their views on the USA.


----------



## Lorenzo (Sep 5, 2009)

mark3 said:


> I think everyone should note that this thread is about perceptions of the USA and Americans, not tell whats wrong with the US and please provide facts.
> 
> You can continue your discusion by all means (it's awesome ), but maybe some more people could give their views on the USA.



Are you going to show this thread to your AP Government teacher?


----------



## soccerking813 (Sep 5, 2009)

Forte said:


> I'm from Canada and I saw practically no difference between here and the US when I went to Nationals.



So you are basing the entire US on what you experienced those few days at a Rubik's cube competition?


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

To tell you the truth, we don't hate Americans. We just hate people who are like the people in this broadcast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPRD3P2748A There's a part 2 too...


----------



## qqwref (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> To tell you the truth, we don't hate Americans. We just hate people who are like the people in this broadcast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPRD3P2748A There's a part 2 too...



Fair enough, but it is not just America that has people like that ;-)


----------



## daniel0731ex (Sep 5, 2009)

guys, guys...

why so socialist??


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

Sure, we have people like that too but I don't think we've ever broadcast **** like that. But whatever. Lets just stop this flame war...
Socialism=good.
Think about it. People in socialist countries have a better standard of life: 10 weeks PAID vacation (Can't remember the country), better wages and less work hours! Its amazing. Slovakia was a socialist country for a while (I'm part Slovak)


----------



## StachuK1992 (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Sure, we have people like that too but I don't think we've ever broadcast **** like that. But whatever. Lets just stop this flame war...
> Socialism=good.
> Think about it. People in socialist countries have a better standard of life: 10 weeks PAID vacation (Can't remember the country), better wages and less work hours! Its amazing. Slovakia was a socialist country for a while (I'm part Slovak)


No. Just. no.


----------



## qqwref (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Socialism=good.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_countries

I'm sure it rocks to live in Maoist China, North Korea, or Stalinist Russia. Yep. Totally rocks.


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes, because out of all the countries in the world, the one we want to emulate is Slovakia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
That's a great idea, let's throw out our #1 GDP and our #15 GDP per Capita and go from a country where the average person has $43,000 to a country where the average person has $17,000, just like Slovakia!


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

Think of Denmark and Norway. Look at their standards of living. Some socialist countries are cotrupt.


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2009)

Look at France, Canada, Germany, the UK, Israel, Slovakia, China, Russia, North Korea, Vietnam, and almost every other socialized country. Just because something works in a few tiny countries doesn't mean it works in a country with 300,000,000 people.


----------



## qqwref (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Think of Denmark and Norway. Look at their standards of living. Some socialist countries are cotrupt.



Denmark "is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system of government" "with a free market capitalist economy and a large welfare state".

Norway "is a constitutional, hereditary monarchy and parliamentary democracy".

Note that neither of these are listed in the "list of socialist countries" article. I don't think either of these have EVER been officially socialist.


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Look at France, Canada, Germany, the UK, Israel, Slovakia, China, Russia, North Korea, Vietnam, and almost every other socialized country. Just because something works in a few tiny countries doesn't mean it works in a country with 300,000,000 people.


a) Canada isn't socialist...
b) France isn't socialist...
c) Both France and Canada are doing great. Currently Saskatchewan is doing better than most states.
d) Germany isn't socialist...
e) Israel isn't socialist...
Nice job at listing most of the countries I have ancestory in:
Canada
Germany
France
Israel
Ireland
USA
Slovakia
Czech Republic
That's not even all the countries I have ancestory from!


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2009)

1. If you're going to list Denmark and Norway as socialist, you have to go all the way and start listing other countries with heavy socialist influence in policies. 
2. France and Canada may be doing well, bet neither of them have a higher GDP per Capita than the US, so they aren't doing as well as the country you're trying to beat.


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm not trying to "beat" the USA. So what if we don't have a higher GDP?


----------



## StachuK1992 (Sep 5, 2009)

I disagree with krazedkat on all other points, but I agree with the above.
Money is nice, but not how we should rate people, nor countries.


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2009)

If you don't have a higher GDP per Capita, you aren't as well off. If you're GDP per Capita is 1/3 that of the United States as it is in Slovakia, the example YOU used, we shouldn't be trying to emulate you, you should be trying to emulate us.

Edit:


Stachuk1992 said:


> I disagree with krazedkat on all other points, but I agree with the above.
> Money is nice, but not how we should rate people, nor countries.



Then he probably shouldn't be telling us that one system of economics is better, when the simple facts show it isn't.

Edit:
If you want to rate countries by happiness though, you should know that the US has a lower suicide rate than countries he's listed as being well off, such as Slovakia, Canada, France, Norway, and Denmark, aka every country he's listed. 
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

Look money isn't everything. You also have to take into account prices, resources, climate and MULTIPLE other things to tell if someone is "better off". Besides. Which Canadian laws demonstrate socialism?


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Look money isn't everything. You also have to take into account prices, resources, climate and MULTIPLE other things to tell if someone is "better off". Besides. Which Canadian laws demonstrate socialism?



Read my Edit on my previous post. 

Also, Canada has:
Socialized Medicine
A very involved welfare system (SA)
Unemployment Insurance
Personal Tax Rates around 30% on average
and a ton of other stuff that you can find by using the google.

I'm not claiming many of these things don't exist in the United States, I'm just answering his question.


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

is that rate per capita or overall??


----------



## Jason (Sep 5, 2009)

When non-US forum members say socialist, they don't mean communist. Generally when you say the word socialist to an american, Stalin, goulags and the Gosplan come to their minds. When europeans say socialism, they mean to talk about ideas such as universal free healthcare, wellfare protection, trustworthy public services, solidarity.... In which case I would say that France is definately a country with socialist values.


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 5, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> is that rate per capita or overall??



I have used the term GDP per Capita several times now.


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

I meant the suicide rate...


----------



## Cyrok215 (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm pretty sure muslim is the most practiced religion.


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 5, 2009)

Random much? But yes it is... And Taoism, budism and hindu are also in the top 5... I think...


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 6, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> I meant the suicide rate...



Are you unaware of what the word "rate" means?


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 6, 2009)

No, I'm not. It has multiple meanings and you obviously haven't checked up on the word...


----------



## brunson (Sep 6, 2009)

Ethan Rosen and krazedkat, you guys have degenerated into a nit-picking pissing match. You need to elevate the level of discussion to something other than "it depends on what the meaning of "is" is". This is a forum, if you're going to carry on a person to person discussion, take it to PM.


----------



## skarian (Sep 6, 2009)

i hate the racism in america, not against the black people, but against latins indians,chinese, middle-eastern as an indian i get the racist card often. And absolutely hate it when people ask me to do the accent..uhh... and when other people do it.


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 6, 2009)

skarian said:


> i hate the racism in america, not against the black people, but against latins indians,chinese, middle-eastern as an indian i get the racist card often. And absolutely hate it when people ask me to do the accent..uhh... and when other people do it.



That is ****. I'm a middle-easterner and I don't get that much racism because I'm not VISIBLY asian but when in airports, when they see my passport, I am sometimes "randomly" selected for extra screening just because of my background.


----------



## PatrickJameson (Sep 6, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> skarian said:
> 
> 
> > i hate the racism in america, not against the black people, but against latins indians,chinese, middle-eastern as an indian i get the racist card often. And absolutely hate it when people ask me to do the accent..uhh... and when other people do it.
> ...



I'm a white American with no background of any culture that you are describing in which you say many people are racist against. I don't travel much but twice I've been 'randomly' selected to have extra screening.


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 6, 2009)

brunson said:


> Ethan Rosen and krazedkat, you guys have degenerated into a nit-picking pissing match. You need to elevate the level of discussion to something other than "it depends on what the meaning of "is" is". This is a forum, if you're going to carry on a person to person discussion, take it to PM.



He is literally unable to figure out what the word "rate" means in "suicide rate." I really don't think I can be blamed for this...


----------



## qqwref (Sep 6, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> I'm not VISIBLY asian but when in airports, when they see my passport, I am sometimes "randomly" selected for extra screening just because of my background.



Yeah? So? I have too. And I'm not in any minority. It really is random - it might've been more biased several years ago, but they're not allowed to do that anymore, even though it would actually make sense to be target certain groups. (How many airline terrorists are families, seriously?)


----------



## mark3 (Sep 6, 2009)

qqwref said:


> krazedkat said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not VISIBLY asian but when in airports, when they see my passport, I am sometimes "randomly" selected for extra screening just because of my background.
> ...



You really shouldn't target anyone. The minute they know how to get a leg up on you is the minute they take advantage of our weakness again. It needs to be truly random.


----------



## skarian (Sep 6, 2009)

i have gone in the airport over 20 times, every time, RANDOM CHECKING....uhhh. but i understand why...Its just annoying


----------



## tanya33 (Sep 6, 2009)

A few months ago I was watching a US news channel and there was a story about Vancouver in Canada. They referred to Vancouver as "A city North of Washington state" and didn't even mention the name of the city... as if people in the US are too stupid to know one of the main cities in a neighbouring country. anyway this is just an example of typical US television which gives people in the US a bad image they don't deserve... well most  

Also being a neighbour to the US has allowed Canada to be a little lazy 

Generally though I like the US and I like the people as much as anywhere else


----------



## qqwref (Sep 6, 2009)

mark3 said:


> You really shouldn't target anyone. The minute they know how to get a leg up on you is the minute they take advantage of our weakness again. It needs to be truly random.



I disagree. The World Trade Center attack (and related ones) was all done by Muslim men traveling without families, right? If future attackers are likely to fit a similar profile, you have a much better chance of finding them that way, since you're concentrating more effort on checking similar travelers. It doesn't need to be along race lines (targeting just "young or middle-aged adults traveling alone who have seats near the cockpit" would do a much better job, with less hassle, than targeting Muslims), but if you don't do any targeting at all then you might as well not even do searches.

More politically neutral analogy: suppose a company made laptop and desktop computers, but the laptop ones were known to (once in a long while) have a fatal flaw that would cost the company thousands of dollars to fix if they were released to the consumer. Does it make more sense to test every 10th laptop, or to test ever 20th laptop and every 20th desktop?


----------



## EmersonHerrmann (Sep 6, 2009)

I live there, it's kinda boring...but hey, that's just the opinion of a high school Freshman


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 6, 2009)

tanya33 said:


> A few months ago I was watching a US news channel and there was a story about Vancouver in Canada. They referred to Vancouver as "A city North of Washington state" and didn't even mention the name of the city... as if people in the US are too stupid to know one of the main cities in a neighbouring country. anyway this is just an example of typical US television which gives people in the US a bad image they don't deserve... well most
> 
> Also being a neighbour to the US has allowed Canada to be a little lazy
> 
> Generally though I like the US and I like the people as much as anywhere else




Not that I'm angry but Canadians are far from lazy. We actually supply the USA with lots of resources, sometimes more than they provide us. We send over lumber, uranium, potash and much more if I'm not mistaken...


----------



## gpt_kibutz (Sep 6, 2009)

Jason said:


> When non-US forum members say socialist, they don't mean communist. Generally when you say the word socialist to an american, Stalin, goulags and the Gosplan come to their minds. When europeans say socialism, they mean to talk about ideas such as universal free healthcare, wellfare protection, trustworthy public services, solidarity.... In which case I would say that France is definately a country with socialist values.


I do think socialism is the best system in which a country could live. People think that socialism is the same as communist; but you've got to remember tha socialism was never applied in the earth. (nor USSR nor Cuba)


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 6, 2009)

There have been socialist governments: Czechoslovakia, Slovakia, .... Quite a few others...


----------



## tanya33 (Sep 6, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> tanya33 said:
> 
> 
> > A few months ago I was watching a US news channel and there was a story about Vancouver in Canada. They referred to Vancouver as "A city North of Washington state" and didn't even mention the name of the city... as if people in the US are too stupid to know one of the main cities in a neighbouring country. anyway this is just an example of typical US television which gives people in the US a bad image they don't deserve... well most
> ...


oh no I didn't mean with our resources or productivity I was referring to our military (a kind of joke). Canada is badass that is why I live here but we need to grow some balls and become more independent. btw you're the first Canadian I've seen on here soo hi.


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi my brother XD... Just so you know though, Canada was the main superpower of WWI, we basically ENDED WWI! Not to mention... Who won the war of 1812? Whose training is based on ours?


----------



## Swordsman Kirby (Sep 6, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Whose training is based on ours?



No one's?


----------



## krazedkat (Sep 6, 2009)

America's army training is based on Canada's... -.-


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Sep 6, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> Just so you know though, Canada was the main superpower of WWI, we basically ENDED WWI!



That isn't true at all. Calling Canada the main Superpower of World War One is like saying The US, Germany, The UK, France, Austria, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire didn't exist. Canada didn't end the war at all. For the most part that was a collaboration between the US, UK, Italy and France, although other European powers (as in, not Canada) had pretty big roles as well. 



krazedkat said:


> Not to mention... Who won the war of 1812?


Nobody did actually, please read the terms of the Treaty of Ghent. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Ghent



krazedkat said:


> Whose training is based on ours?



I don't know, please tell me


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## krazedkat (Sep 6, 2009)

a) Do some more research, ever heard of the battle of Passchendaele? We owned
b) Exactly... Idiot
c) Yours is. You're huge army is based on OURS!



edit:



> The term "storm trooper" was first used by the Germans in the First World War to describe the Canadian troops that they had to fight against. Canadian troops were most feared by the Germans during the First World War, and the German army always prepared for the worst when an attack was spearheaded by the Canadian army.


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## Ethan Rosen (Sep 6, 2009)

a. Ever heard of EVERY OTHER BATTLE IN WORLD WAR ONE? What about supplying the allied countries with food, fuel, and weapons that they wouldn't have been able to survive without? 
b. Yes, Canada didn't win the war of 1812, which was a draw between the US and the UK. I don't get what you're trying to prove.
c. Please provide a source. I only say this because I know you won't actually find one, and it'll save you the embarrassment of posting stupid things.

That whole thing you pasted about the word stormtrooper? It's not true.


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## masterofthebass (Sep 6, 2009)

krazedkat: please don't post random quotes you find from wikianswers.com. If you are going to make claims, back them up with factual evidence, or don't post anything at all.

btw... the actual origination of 'storm troopers' was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtrooper


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## krazedkat (Sep 6, 2009)

a) I know that was important but look at my edit now...
b) Canada and Britain were TOGETHER in the war! I'm proving that YOU didn't win!
c) Do your own research -.-


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## Ethan Rosen (Sep 6, 2009)

a. Your edit was copy and pasted from wiki answers. 
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_stormtrooper
Read the rebuttal argument already posted on the wikianswers, because it's actually true, unlike the biased, poorly written, false trash that you pasted. 
b. Canada was a territory of Britain. The war was between Britain (which was only the most powerful empire in the history of the world at the time) and the US (which had won it's independence less than 30 years earlier.) Nobody won the war. It's a minor footnote of the Napoleonic Wars that had no actual effect on anything. Nobody cares.
c. No. You made the claim, which is simply false. How could I research something that isn't true? If you make a claim you have to be able to back it up.


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## krazedkat (Sep 6, 2009)

You know what? **** this topic. God. I wish someone would lock it. I keep having urges to post here!


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## Ethan Rosen (Sep 6, 2009)

What a graceful admission of utter defeat


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## DavidWoner (Sep 6, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> a) Do some more research, ever heard of the battle of Passchendaele? We owned



So because Canada had a hand in a fairly major battle fought more than a year before the War actually ended, they all of the sudden become "the main superpower of WWI" who "basically ENDED WWI!"? I think not.

Canada's overall involvement was about on par with that of Australia and the Indian Empire. Even so, all 3 of those countries made up about 1/5 of the British Imperial Forces. Not even the entire Allied side, just Britain! Canadian military casualties make up slightly more than 1 percent of the total Allied losses, and the ratio for injured is quite similar. So unless Canada was sending in bionic super-soldiers who were largely impervious to harm, I don't think their involvement was quite as great as you say it was.





krazedkat said:


> c) Yours is. You're huge army is based on OURS!



Can you please provide a single shred of factual evidence to back this up? I tried to find some, but all I really found out was that Canada's military didn't really come into being until almost 100 years after the United States Military. Of course the bionic super-soldiers can also travel through time RIGHT? I'm sure that's it. Even though I have no factual evidence, I capitalized one of the words for emphasis, so it must be true.


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## Jason (Sep 6, 2009)

This is going to turn into "Perception and thoughts about Canada" .

The U.S. has the highest prison population per capita in the world. Something's wrong there. Also, African americans are over-represented in your prisons


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## 4Chan (Sep 6, 2009)

Jason said:


> This is going to turn into "Perception and thoughts about Canada" .
> 
> The U.S. has the highest prison population per capita in the world. Something's wrong there. Also, African americans are over-represented in your prisons



If you were to visit the areas in which i go to school, (downtown atlanta, near where Us Nationals 2008 was) you would know why african americans are "over-represented in prisons".

(';

It's a very scary place.

EDIT: I understand that this may seem "rascist" but in the inner city, I've quite literally seen things which have changed my outlook on life. If you remember, people were robbed at Us Nationals, and Ive seen that downtown. Ive seen many fights, public defecation, and even rape. (It was in a parking lot downtown, and my family was lost while driving to my university, and we ended up in the ghetto)

The university i attend, Georgia State University, has police pacing the streets and campus to keep the students safe, but while commuting, traveling through the poor parts is unavoidable. The ghetto is quite literally within a few kilometers away.


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## Jason (Sep 6, 2009)

It's a reflection of a country that has been unable to integrate a whole portion of society. People should be looking at the sociological reasons of why this is the case


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## mark3 (Sep 6, 2009)

qqwref said:


> mark3 said:
> 
> 
> > You really shouldn't target anyone. The minute they know how to get a leg up on you is the minute they take advantage of our weakness again. It needs to be truly random.
> ...



While this makes sense, it offers people trying to harm America an edge. If they see that we are targeting searches to middle aged men traveling alone with seats near cockpit, they could send a man with a women and children posing as his family and know he is less likely to get searched. Or a 35-40 year old man could disguise himself as a 55-60 year old man putting him out of the more likely searched persons.


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## 4Chan (Sep 6, 2009)

Jason said:


> It's a reflection of a country that has been unable to integrate a whole portion of society. People should be looking at the sociological reasons of why this is the case



It's okay.
I dont expect you to understand this nation.
Its normal for foreigners to misunderstand.

I don't take offense to your statement.

Its not the country, nor the governments fault.
Its the peoples fault for choosing such a destructive lifestyle.
Public schools are open to everyone, scholarships make college free. (i know from experience)
And there are bureaucracies which offer money to people who are on hard times. (welfare, WIC, food stamps, unemployment checks, etc...)


Simply said, its not the fault of the nation in the least.


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## Jason (Sep 6, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> Jason said:
> 
> 
> > It's a reflection of a country that has been unable to integrate a whole portion of society. People should be looking at the sociological reasons of why this is the case
> ...



So what are you trying to say: Black people are intrinsically bad, they choose a destructive lifestyle, and that's why they are all poor and in prison.
Don't belittle me saying "It's okay.
I dont expect you to understand this nation.
Its normal for foreigners to misunderstand."
Do you think I'm an idiot or something? Do you think it's a purely american phenomena? You seem to have very little understanding of the underelying reasons that lead to these kind of situations


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## 4Chan (Sep 6, 2009)

Haha, you caught my insult.

Yes, this is what im saying.
"The people in the ghetto, who happen to be black, are poor and violent because they chose that lifestyle for themselves"

They too had equal opportunity.
A job on minimum wage can add up to 20+ thousand a year, which is decent enough to support oneself, and not live on the streets.

Being a minority is actually favorable when applying for jobs, due to government intervention. Which has laws known as "Equal Opportunity" 
As well as subsidies which come from government money, whilst applying for scholarships, i encountered ones specifically for African Americans and other various ones targeted to minorities.

You should go to the ghetto sometime. You wouldnt understand otherwise.
Unless youve actually been here, youre being quite narrow minded.

Also, this thread simply encourages flame to this great nation.


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## Jason (Sep 6, 2009)

You have just demonstrated that you are absolutely clueless as to why there are poor black communities by saying



Cubes=Life said:


> Yes, this is what im saying.
> "The people in the ghetto, who happen to be black, are poor and violent because they chose that lifestyle for themselves"



I know you're very proud of the USA being meritocratic, but in fact it's a myth. There is in fact very little social movement and a lot of social reproduction. If you're born at the top, you'll probably die at the top, and the same goes if you're born at the bottom.
And stop thinking it's a purely US phenomena, it happens in other countries, but not as overwhelmingly. I'm sure that the ghetto you're describing is pretty evil, but that's completely missing the point


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## 4Chan (Sep 6, 2009)

Well, mister, this thread is about america specifically.

Let's call it a moot point. (by the american definition, which from what ive heard is different from the british definition) Since nothing we can do will change the other persons opinion.

It tis not a myth, but i strongly doubt you will agree.


So, lets have peace, perhaps one day ill meet you and we can have a nice chat about cubes, algorithms and methods.
I concede that my life experiences are different from yours and that we have differing conclusions. You seem mature, and decently logical, so how about it?


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## Jason (Sep 6, 2009)

This thread is about America, but it's not because I'm not american that I'm not able to understand certain sociological mechanisms that take place in America. Also, it's extremely dangerous to base general beliefs on personal experiences. There is equally a wealth of sources that show that the US is not as meritocratic that some people might think. I know it is inscribed in the psyche of americans and the american dream, but the reality paints a different picture


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## Rikane (Sep 6, 2009)

krazedkat said:


> a) I know that was important but look at my edit now...
> b) Canada and Britain were TOGETHER in the war! I'm proving that YOU didn't win!
> c) Do your own research -.-



Alright, alright. 
I've been watching this topic for a while now, and getting angry enough about it, I have decided to post.

First off, not all Canadians are ignorant.
Secondly, I'll apologize for this behaviour.
And thirdly, I'll respond to these things.

a.) No, I don't believe that we ended WWI. We helped. At best. We did one good battle I can remember specifically, and that was Vimy Ridge.

b.) Yes, that's true.
But neither did we.

c.) Ethan did this one already, but just to reiterate


Ethan Rosen said:


> c. No. You made the claim, which is simply false. How could I research something that isn't true? If you make a claim you have to be able to back it up.




EDIT: Oh right, I guess I'll contribute to the thread in order to avoid being banned.
About the US, to me anyway, it's just another country, a powerful one, but nothing too special.
Except for those pictures that compare Bush to a monkey, those are awesome.
There are cool people in the US, and similarly, uhm, "not cool" people as well, for lack of a better term.
Also, there are smart people in the US, (think Lucas Garron), and not smart people as well (people on the street in that one video)

All in all, the stuff I pointed out can be found in any country.
One thing I would change about the US?
Change the fact that most people would think about war when someone mentions something about the US.


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## masterofthebass (Sep 6, 2009)

@Jason

Yes, social classes have been around for thousands of years. In some cultures it has actually been impossible to move out of your class (feudal Europe). It just so happens that a large population of black people are in this lower social class that lives in urban areas. The problem is, it is somewhat of a challenge to stop living the way you are, and change your attitude towards life. Its not impossible for people to choose to not live a life different from that they grew up in, but doing so requires a lot of mental effort. It just so happens, that a vast majority of people don't actually do this and decide to stay living the way they are, doing illegal things and not moving out of their social class. That is the reason for the 'ghettos' that exist, and nothing else. As chris said, the government has given unfair advantages to people who do want to change things, and people do use that system that is in place. Our newest supreme court justice is just one example of this. She decided that she didn't want to live the way her peers were, and worked to change that.


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## Ethan Rosen (Sep 9, 2009)

Your cartoons would probably be a lot more effective if they were accurate. The cartoon has WW2 era battleships and planes, yet CNN, IBM, and Microsoft were obviously non existent until many years after this picture takes place. Get your facts straight, jeez.


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## qqwref (Sep 9, 2009)

Vladimir Putin is watching You!

PS: I don't actually care how evil Biden might secretly be... because he's still a way better choice than Palin.


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## 4Chan (Sep 9, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Vladimir Putin is watching You!
> 
> PS: I don't actually care how evil Biden might secretly be... because he's still a way better choice than Palin.



But but but, she was mildly attractive. D:

(am joking around. )


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## masterofthebass (Sep 9, 2009)

lol us. americans. Miss teen south carolina anyone?


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## Bryan (Sep 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Your cartoons would probably be a lot more effective if they were accurate. The cartoon has WW2 era battleships and planes, yet CNN, IBM, and Microsoft were obviously non existent until many years after this picture takes place. Get your facts straight, jeez.



If you're going to nitpick people's facts, get yours straight. IBM was incorporated in 1911.


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## Ethan Rosen (Sep 9, 2009)

Bryan said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Your cartoons would probably be a lot more effective if they were accurate. The cartoon has WW2 era battleships and planes, yet CNN, IBM, and Microsoft were obviously non existent until many years after this picture takes place. Get your facts straight, jeez.
> ...



Gah I knew I shouldn't have included IBM


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## JBCM627 (Sep 9, 2009)

Bryan said:


> IBM was incorporated in 1911.


To be very nit-picky, that particular logo wasn't used until 1967.


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## PatrickJameson (Sep 9, 2009)

Y.g.h. said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Your cartoons would probably be a lot more effective if they were accurate. The cartoon has WW2 era battleships and planes, yet CNN, IBM, and Microsoft were obviously non existent until many years after this picture takes place. Get your facts straight, jeez.
> ...



People are using WW2 era battleships and planes now? That's not very efficient.

A lot of the logos are way out of date too.


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## DavidWoner (Sep 9, 2009)

Y.g.h. said:


> especially the speedsolving censor(s) a.k.a. "moderator(s)";



LOL

Like I said, you are free to express your opinion, as long as you do it in a way that is not offensive.

You claim Americans are terrible for trying to spread their lifestyle and opinions, but you are trying to do THE EXACT SAME THING. So not only are you as despicable as the people you dislike, you are also a hypocrite.


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## CalNgyuen (Sep 28, 2009)

Well... I must say. I have had the upmost respect for some like Chris, and some others, but a bolt of lightning struck it. There are all good and bad people, in all kinds of races and nationallities. Call me naive or old fashioned, (or an idiot) but all people are the same and should be treated equal.


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## elcarc (Sep 28, 2009)

CalNgyuen said:


> Well... I must say. I have had the upmost respect for some like Chris, and some others, but a bolt of lightning struck it. There are all good and bad people, in all kinds of races and nationallities. Call me naive or old fashioned, (or an idiot) but all people are the same and should be treated equal.



all people are not the same, but they still should be treated equal.


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## CalNgyuen (Sep 28, 2009)

Yeah, even if people are stinky, deformed, ugly, grotest. They should be treated the same


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