# Poll: Opinion on Health Care Reform



## beingforitself (Mar 22, 2010)

Regarding passage of H.R. 4872 (Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act) and H.R. 2590 (Health Care and Education Affordability Reconciliation Act of 2010) last night.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 22, 2010)

I was watching Obama yesterday. Seems good to me. I <3 Tommy Douglas.


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## Edmund (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm not digging it. My dad had cancer and with what we had in the US he was treated so quickly and luckily they were able to terminate the cancer before it big time spread but if we had a system run by the government he would not have been treated with such speed. Take my cousin in England, which has health care. She has crazy oral problems and she's had them for so long because of the poor medical system and in America she would have been treated with more speed. I just don't want America to become a place where it takes for over to fix something. I also don't like the gov't having so much power. It seems scary. It would be wonderful if everyone could be treated and all could be healthy but that's not gonna happen. They'll start selecting who is worthy of getting immediate care and it'll eventually turn into people deciding whether you live or not.
This thread will most likely turn into a fight thread but I'm just throwing in my 2 cents.

And the amount of spending, insane.

If I can just leave with a great quote on health care
"In the wild, there is no health care. In the wild health care is: ow I hurt my leg, I can't run, a lion eats. wow I'm dead. No I'm not dead, I'm the lion, you're dead!"
-Dwight K. Schrute


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## Muesli (Mar 22, 2010)

I think that...

Oh wait...


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## Parity (Mar 22, 2010)

Me and my mom were traveling around the state takeing votes on this from doctors.
We asked 1000 doctors if they would quit if this passed.
769 said they would quit.


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 22, 2010)

Parity said:


> Me and my mom were traveling around the state takeing votes on this from doctors.
> We asked 1000 doctors if they would quit if this passed.
> 769 said they would quit.



Yea, seems likely to me that they're just gonna quit their jobs over this bill.
(Note, my sarcastic reply in no way indicates my position on the bill, I just thought his statement was ridiculous)


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## aronpm (Mar 22, 2010)

Of course, if I'd spent around 12 years in medical school to get a medical degree so that I could be a doctor, I would definitely quit my job because the public gets public health care.


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## Daniel Wu (Mar 22, 2010)

Free market > Government control. Particularly when the government is just so inefficient anyway. I don't think they can manage this. I allow don't like how the government decided that they should just ram the bill down the throats of the House of Representatives. I don't think that the bill should be voted on unless it has been read. Most of this bill was written behind closed doors and it's just not right to have people voting on bills without knowing the contents. And if I may ask, how is increasing people covered by 32 million not going to increase the deficit. The spending is out of control. It needs to stop and it's really that simple. *It is unsustainable.* This is really just out of control. What it comes down to is you can't spend money that you don't have.


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## kunz (Mar 22, 2010)

personally i don't mind that is passed but i don't think its the governments place to give sick people (no matter how sad there story is) our money


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## Parity (Mar 22, 2010)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Parity said:
> 
> 
> > Me and my mom were traveling around the state takeing votes on this from doctors.
> ...


I most defiently would quit as well.


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## aronpm (Mar 22, 2010)

Parity said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
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> > Parity said:
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Why would you quit? Give reasons.


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 22, 2010)

Parity said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
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> > Parity said:
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Good thing you aren't a doctor. Luckily for me, I'm confident that my doctor, as well as 99.999% of doctors in the country, will not be quitting their jobs because of this.


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## 4Chan (Mar 22, 2010)

I think someone doesn't understand what the healthcare bill proposes. (x


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## beingforitself (Mar 22, 2010)

Just a clarification from all the Patriots opposed to this measure:

Y'all are also in favor of the complete abolishment of Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid, right?


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 22, 2010)

beingforitself said:


> Just a clarification from all the Patriots opposed to this measure:
> 
> Y'all are also in favor of the complete abolishment of Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid, right?



Over a long period of time, yes.


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## RyanO (Mar 22, 2010)

Parity said:


> I most defiently would quit as well.


 
Quit and do what? I'm pretty sure most doctors wouldn't be able to make more money doing something else just because of this bill. If I was considering going into the helthcare business this might effect my decision, but I don't think there will be very many doctors who actually stop being doctors because of this.


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## Bryan (Mar 22, 2010)

beingforitself said:


> Y'all are also in favor of the complete abolishment of Social Security



Everyone knows that Social Security is broke. Talk to anyone under 40 and they acknowledge the fact that they won't be getting anything back from it, yet have to pay into it.

Medicare and medicaid also take up large portion of the government money. Go back and look at the early estimate of how much these programs were originally expected to cost. They well exceed that, and I expect the Health Care Reform won't be anywhere near it's projected budget.

Obama talks about how they could save so much money by eliminating fraud. Fine. So just do it. Do it immediately. If there's really money there, just start saving it. Don't sit there and say, "Well, I know how we can save a bunch of money, but we won't unless I get to say how it's spent." 

You think deregulating insurance and letting people buy across state lines will help? Just pass that. Don't bunch it up with other crap.

The bill doesn't do anything to save money, it just spends more and more. Costs will go up, and some insurance companies will go out of business. That's what the Democrats want, so they can sweep in and have the government control health care. At that point, the government can decide what you can and cannot do, because they're paying for your health care.


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## Edmund (Mar 22, 2010)

beingforitself said:


> Just a clarification from all the Patriots opposed to this measure:
> 
> Y'all are also in favor of the complete abolishment of Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid, right?



I would be for abolishing social security. I realize it couldn't be done immediately because so many people are dependent. It should be phased out gradually. The others I don't know so much about but because they're listed with social security I might be for abolishing them.


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## Daniel Wu (Mar 22, 2010)

Bryan said:


> The bill doesn't do anything to save money, it just spends more and more. Costs will go up, and some insurance companies will go out of business. That's what the Democrats want, so they can sweep in and have the government control health care. At that point, the government can decide what you can and cannot do, because they're paying for your health care.


That pretty much sums it up right there.


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## biohead (Mar 22, 2010)

I live in a country with Health Care. If you are sick you get treated at a public hospital, and if they take to long you go to a private one for free.
I cant for the live of me see what you have against this. I have seen what Fox News has said about "Health Care == Communism" and i'm sorry, it is insane. 

But i'm not really surprised that something like that comes from a country where you sue someone because you eaten to much junk food...


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## Dene (Mar 22, 2010)

From an external point of view, I am completely in favour of the bill. 

Oh and those that are worried about the costs: Do you realise how much debt the latest wars have caused?


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## Daniel Wu (Mar 22, 2010)

Dene said:


> From an external point of view, I am completely in favour of the bill.
> 
> Oh and those that are worried about the costs: Do you realise how much debt the latest wars have caused?


A dollar spent for war and a dollar spent for this bill is still a dollar that we don't have.


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## 4Chan (Mar 22, 2010)

biohead said:


> I cant for the live of me see what you have against this. I have seen what Fox News has said about "Health Care == Communism" and i'm sorry, it is insane.



>Fox News

Moar liek Faux News lolololol.

I don't like the media. 
.-.


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## DavidWoner (Mar 22, 2010)

Ethan Rosen said:


> beingforitself said:
> 
> 
> > Just a clarification from all the Patriots opposed to this measure:
> ...



Ditto.



biohead said:


> I live in a country with Health Care. If you are sick you get treated at a public hospital, and if they take to long you go to a private one for free. I cant for the live of me see what you have against this.



You mean you are treated for "free." It's not free healthcare, its just prepaid with your tax money. In order for this to be a good thing, it would have to provide healthcare equal to what people receive now, for less money. Given the poor state of Veteran's Hospitals (free gov't-run hospitals for veterans) I don't really see that happening.



Dene said:


> From an external point of view, I am completely in favour of the bill.
> 
> Oh and those that are worried about the costs: Do you realise how much debt the latest wars have caused?



If the war ended today it would only alleviate ~14% of the national debt. With the coming increases in spending for medicare, medicaid, and social security the national debt is expected to increase to ~$53 trillion by 2040. Sure, ending the war would definitely help a bit, but it won't be any sort of saving grace.


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## Dene (Mar 22, 2010)

rickcube said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > From an external point of view, I am completely in favour of the bill.
> ...



Ok... You realise that goverments are meant to spend the money that they tax you to benefit the country? As in, to guarantee healthcare, not to send men out to get killed?


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## Dene (Mar 22, 2010)

DavidWoner said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > From an external point of view, I am completely in favour of the bill.
> ...



Ok, but if the wars never started in the first place, the US would never been in so much debt that the number no longer fitted on the sign that shows the national debt.


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## Bryan (Mar 22, 2010)

Dene said:


> Ok, but if the wars never started in the first place, the US would never been in so much debt that the number no longer fitted on the sign that shows the national debt.



If the US never went to war, we'd be under Britain's control still.....


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## anythingtwisty (Mar 22, 2010)

Bryan said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, but if the wars never started in the first place, the US would never been in so much debt that the number no longer fitted on the sign that shows the national debt.
> ...



So you're saying that US intervention in the Middle East is as justifiable as a war for independence on our own soil?


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## pjk (Mar 22, 2010)

Since I'm living outside the US at the moment, all of my knowledge has come from reading stories and information on the web. I have, however, been following it quite closely for the last several months.

The fact of the matter is that something needs to be done. Whether this bill is the right thing to do or not remains to be shown. From what I understand of the bill, I do support it. We can't just sit here and let the health care system go as it is, because it is _clearly_ not working. I think passing this bill is a huge step in reforming the way it works, and it is necessary.

I think 99% of the people that oppose the bill (as well as 99% of people who support it) have very little understanding of what exactly the bill does, and what exactly is in. It seems to me that, like with all politics, people's opinion is more or less based on what channel they watched on TV.


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## James Ludlow (Mar 22, 2010)

Bryan said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, but if the wars never started in the first place, the US would never been in so much debt that the number no longer fitted on the sign that shows the national debt.
> ...



Rule Brittania!


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## Edmund (Mar 22, 2010)

Dene said:


> Oh and those that are worried about the costs: Do you realise how much debt the latest wars have caused?



Exactly. We should be working on fixing the deficit, not on health care that's costing huge amounts of money. We are in a deep enough hole, we need to come out, not go farther in.


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## ZamHalen (Mar 23, 2010)

I may be misunderstanding this (I don't pay attention to politics) but why quit if you're a doctor?You're getting payed for what your doing either way.(Unless ,like I said, i'm misunderstanding this and the bill is lowering the cost. But that would mean more people going to you anyway if it was affordable wouldn't it?)Unless it's not an issue of being payed that is and just the fact that doctors don't want the govt. involved


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## iSpinz (Mar 23, 2010)

DavidWoner said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
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> > beingforitself said:
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Squirtle.


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## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

NHS is awesome.


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## iasimp1997 (Mar 23, 2010)

Stupid.
Government did the vote on a Sunday to prevent riots and protests, and, also, to get the bill passed quicker and easier. In other words, they're shoving **** down our throats.

If our country turns into a communist country, there are gonna be some major problems.
Communism promises food, money, all that stuff. No matter how much work is done. This is one of the major flaws in communism. If you get food and money no matter how much work you do, then people will eventually do less and less work. This is kind of obvious. But that's what would happen if America were to turn communist. Hell, if the whole world was communist, there wouldn't be that much of anything. INCLUDING CUBES!!!!!11eleven
Also, government controls basically everything, so communism = sadface.


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## ZamHalen (Mar 23, 2010)

This isn't my opinion this is more of a thing I saw today, where a former student of one of my teachers walked into class and asked how she felt about healthcare.After she stated her opinion the student proceeded to state "facts" that his current AP history teacher gave him.Soon our teacher was upset by the fact that the other teacher was feeding the students his political opinions as fact. I'm just saying this to show that some people are being biased by opinions which they are being told are facts (which is the reason I don't pay attention to polotical talks).Either way our teacher went on to argue her side.And to tell you the truth I take no sides on healthcare.


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## beingforitself (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> NHS is awesome.



Sounds like evil commie-talk to me.


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## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> NHS is awesome.



Yay it is!



beingforitself said:


> Sounds like evil commie-talk to me.



Being an evil commie I guess it must be.


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## beingforitself (Mar 23, 2010)

kunz said:


> i don't think its the governments place to give sick people (no matter how sad there story is) our money



I agree 100%. If someone's child gets sick and they are too poor to afford health care, the child should be allowed to die. It's called simple justice.


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## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

beingforitself said:


> kunz said:
> 
> 
> > i don't think its the governments place to give sick people (no matter how sad there story is) our money
> ...



You are an idiot. I'd like to see if you would say the same thing if you were a parent in that position.


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## beingforitself (Mar 23, 2010)

Escher said:


> beingforitself said:
> 
> 
> > kunz said:
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You have clearly been too corrupted by European Socialist thinking to understand the elegant simplicity of the American Way. As other posters have indicated, public health care is an abomination, and the free market solves all problems all the time.


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## vrumanuk (Mar 23, 2010)

beingforitself said:


> Escher said:
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> 
> > beingforitself said:
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Wow, talk about being corrupted.


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## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

I call troll.



beingforitself said:


> You have clearly been too corrupted by European Socialist...



Actually no, my favourite political philosopher/commentator is Noam Chomsky, and my favourite writer on economics is J.K. Galbraith. Both are American.



beingforitself said:


> ...thinking to understand the elegant simplicity of the American Way...



simple =/= correct. Nothing in life fits into nice little boxes.

Plus given your previous comment about my "European Socialist corruption" (and I would say implied 'indoctrination') doesn't it seem a little funny that you then go on to devotedly support something that your mainstream media and government constantly perpetuate?



beingforitself said:


> As other posters have indicated, public health care is an abomination...



What knowledge have you of public health care other than that which is filtered to you by US media? A google search? Hardly gives you first hand experience.



beingforitself said:


> ...and the free market solves all problems all the time.



I lol'd at this one. No self-respecting free market philosopher thinks that the free market solves "_all_ 'problems' _all _of the time".


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## ianini (Mar 23, 2010)

Rowan win!


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## Kyle Barry (Mar 23, 2010)

Here's some food for thought. http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-613.pdf. I suggest everyone who actually wants to read some facts that will combat their preconceptions to read this. 

Also, why not universal housing, higher education, employment, cars, laptops, food? Aren't these necessary for people to survive, probably more than healthcare, where emergency room visits are paid for, for the uninsured. My point, where does it end? 
The government is not intended, at least in the USA, to prevent, at any cost, the death of every person. In that case, we should ban cars, and knives, and buckets, and plastic bags, and crossing the street. This view of the government's role is warped, and is not conducive to a free and prosperous nation.


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## eastamazonantidote (Mar 23, 2010)

@ the poll:

How is being communist bad? How is being socialist bad? I'll resort to another language because English lacks sufficiently powerful curse words (and I'm not Irish).

Jebem ti sonce smo butalci, fak stari! V pičku materinu!

I don't understand why people don't want to help the poor. The American Dream at its best. Bravo.


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## Kyle Barry (Mar 23, 2010)

Hmm, why is communism bad? Well, if you glance at any historical attempt at communism, you'll see why. They always end in utter failure, or continue in abysmal situations. 
Why do you buy Rubik's cubes, can't that money go to save a child in Africa, are you that selfish?? Of course you are, like everyone else, we have personal interests and communism is a system that rejects meritocracy and personal striving, which creates an awful system.


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## RubikMagicPuzzleToy (Mar 23, 2010)

eastamazonantidote said:


> @ the poll:
> 
> How is being communist bad? How is being socialist bad? I'll resort to another language because English lacks sufficiently powerful curse words (and I'm not Irish).
> 
> ...



And you know what? It's not even about the poor. It's about the 10% of the uninsured American population, it's about those who PAY for their healthcare benefits and get denied coverage out of the greed of insurance agencies. And, to those who think the free market will fix everything, point out a time where it has. Government de-regulation has only led to depressions. See the great depression (Coolidge with his benefits to big business), Reagan/Bush and their "trickle-down theory", and the one we have now, caused by excessive spending on a war plus allowing banks to give any sort of loans to those who didn't need/afford them. FDR and Clinton cleaned up these messes with social programs and not even raising taxes. Also, show me a source that says this bill will cause a deficit. The house determined it will actually save money over 10 years: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...-bill-would-save-81-billion-over-10-years.php Also, fear of communism/socialism is only because of the possible spread (domino effect). Tell me about Switzerland's economy, will you?

I'm done. I said everything that needs to be said.


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## Kyle Barry (Mar 23, 2010)

Wow. First of all, FDR. There are countless sources agreeing that FDR put us deeper into the depression, and it's well known that he was an economic ignoramus, basing his policies in no clear economic thought, http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx, http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=258. 
Your view on Reagan is based in nothing as far as I can see, he raised standards of living, lowered unemployment, increased income, cut taxes, and halted inflation, no idea where you are getting your facts.
Clinton cleaning up with social programs? Let's prove this one. He balanced the budget due to gridlock between a republican congress and democratic executive, and he was more fiscally conservative, in my view, than Bush. "allowing banks to give any sort of loans," or do you mean, actively encouraging this, see the CRA, adjusting inflation rates, not de-regulation, regulation. 
CBO is wrong every time, by the way. http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2009/08/30/cbo-wrong-on-health-care-reform-cost-numbers/. How is $1 trillion, without raising taxes, going to not raise the deficit?
Everything you said was based in false accusations and 0 facts.


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## DavidWoner (Mar 23, 2010)

The Reagan administration was the first time the National Debt increased during peacetime.


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## Kyle Barry (Mar 23, 2010)

Yes, the debt went up, we were in a cold war. You can't base the state of the nation solely on the national debt. He produced a prosperous economy, which in turn, allows our taxes to cover the debt, eventually. Which is what happened under Clinton.


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## endless_akatsuki (Mar 23, 2010)

Can someone explain to me why people think that National healthcare means Communism?


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## RyanO (Mar 23, 2010)

Ronald Reagan was considered a liberal by most of the world. I'm not sure how Americans came to belive he was a conservative. Moral conservative, maybe, but certainly not a fiscal conservitive. Fiscal conservatives don't really exist anymore, sadly.


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## Dene (Mar 23, 2010)

endless_akatsuki said:


> Can someone explain to me why people think that National healthcare means Communism?



I was going to say something along the same lines. Where in hell is the connection?? I can't see it. People clearly do not have a right to a computer, or a car, as Kyle suggested. These things are not basic needs. Everyone has a right to good health. But where Communism comes into the picture, I am at a loss. I simply do not see it.


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## Bryan (Mar 23, 2010)

eastamazonantidote said:


> I don't understand why people don't want to help the poor.



Believe it or not, there are more ways to help people besides a straight up handout.


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## ShadenSmith (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> I'm not digging it. My dad had cancer and with what we had in the US he was treated so quickly and luckily they were able to terminate the cancer before it big time spread but if we had a system run by the government he would not have been treated with such speed. Take my cousin in England, which has health care. She has crazy oral problems and she's had them for so long because of the poor medical system and in America she would have been treated with more speed. I just don't want America to become a place where it takes for over to fix something. I also don't like the gov't having so much power. It seems scary. It would be wonderful if everyone could be treated and all could be healthy but that's not gonna happen. They'll start selecting who is worthy of getting immediate care and it'll eventually turn into people deciding whether you live or not.
> This thread will most likely turn into a fight thread but I'm just throwing in my 2 cents.
> 
> And the amount of spending, insane.
> ...




Your father would have died if we lived by that quote.


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## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

I find it astounding how little importance Americans place on health.


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## Stefan (Mar 23, 2010)

iasimp1997 said:


> if the whole world was communist, there wouldn't be that much of anything. INCLUDING CUBES!



Um, the cube did come from a communist country.


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## Jason (Mar 23, 2010)

Apart from South Africa, The Unites states is the only country in the western world that doesn't have state healthcare. I live in France, I can assure you there's nothing evil or sinister about it. I thought the Red scare indoctrination ended with the cold war.


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## Jason (Mar 23, 2010)

Kyle Barry said:


> Hmm, why is communism bad? Well, if you glance at any historical attempt at communism, you'll see why. They always end in utter failure, or continue in abysmal situations.
> Why do you buy Rubik's cubes, can't that money go to save a child in Africa, are you that selfish?? Of course you are, like everyone else, we have personal interests and communism is a system that rejects meritocracy and personal striving, which creates an awful system.



I guess you're refering to former USSR. USSR was in fact a regime of extremely centralised state-capitalism and holds virtually none of the tenets of a real communist/socialist state. 
The word socialism was used by both blocks as a propaganda tool


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## beingforitself (Mar 23, 2010)

Bryan said:


> eastamazonantidote said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why people don't want to help the poor.
> ...



Do tell your government-free method of providing universal healthcare.


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## 04mucklowd (Mar 23, 2010)

Its hardly communism


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## iasimp1997 (Mar 23, 2010)

endless_akatsuki said:


> Can someone explain to me why people think that National healthcare means Communism?



Government controlled healthcare.
Communism controls everything. Including financial institutes and stuff like that.


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## masterofthebass (Mar 23, 2010)

iasimp1997 said:


> endless_akatsuki said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone explain to me why people think that National healthcare means Communism?
> ...



you do realize that the government has already controlled healthcare for quite a bit of time (at least for the elderly) and they all love it.


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## endless_akatsuki (Mar 23, 2010)

iasimp1997 said:


> endless_akatsuki said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone explain to me why people think that National healthcare means Communism?
> ...



You seriously think that a government-controlled healthcare is gonna make us communist? Have you even gone to Europe?

You are incredibly closed-minded, and you have been corrupted by some real stupid politicians.


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## SlapShot (Mar 23, 2010)

When medicare was instituted in 1965, they made cost projections for each year. For each year it never stayed within it's budget, some years by a factor of 10.

I don't believe the CBO numbers. It will never stay within it's budget, or reduce the deficit. More fudging the numbers to get people to agree with it.

37 states were supposed to be filing lawsuits today, because it is unconstitutional to make people take something against their will.


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## Stini (Mar 23, 2010)

iasimp1997 said:


> Stupid.
> Government did the vote on a Sunday to prevent riots and protests, and, also, to get the bill passed quicker and easier. In other words, they're shoving **** down our throats.
> 
> If our country turns into a communist country, there are gonna be some major problems.
> ...



http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/health/spend/cost_longlife75.gif

You don't think there's something wrong with your health care? Look at for example Cuba, which is a communist country and according to some sources they even have longer life expectancy than US citizens. Also countries like Sweden, Norway and Finland are quite socialist countries and they have long life expectancy with mediocre health care costs.

If you think about it a bit, the primary motivation of private companies is to make money and not what's best for people. In my opinion some institutions are good to be controlled by the government to ensure that the goal of those institutions is to help people and not just make money. One example of this is private prisons - the US has the most prisoners in the world so private prison industry is a huge business. Obviously the motivation of private prisons is not to make prisoners good citizens, but to keep people locked up as cheaply as possibly (not spending much money on health care of the prisoners or anything "irrelevant" like that) so that they make more profit. Private prisons actually make more money the more there are prisoners, so they spend a lot of money each election cycle to influence the justice policies to their benefit (to put more people in jail so to speak). 

Oh btw, I'm sure most of your cubes are from the communist China.


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## eastamazonantidote (Mar 23, 2010)

Kyle Barry said:


> Hmm, why is communism bad? Well, if you glance at any historical attempt at communism, you'll see why. They *always end in utter failure*, or continue in abysmal situations.
> Why do you buy Rubik's cubes, can't that money go to save a child in Africa, are you that selfish?? Of course you are, like everyone else, we have personal interests and *communism is a system that rejects meritocracy and personal striving*, which creates an awful system.



The world has never experienced true communism, only Leninism and socialism. Skipping over the capitalist part and the proletariat revolution is a HUGE part of making communism succeed. Cuba is the notable exception, but they rebelled out of necessity because the US was being an imperialist dickweed like it usually is. Communism in Cuba worked out very well.

My mom was born "communist" and Catholic in Yugoslavia. That system of government was one of the best she's ever lived in (in large part due to Tito) and there was never a point where the government came to take away people's selfish nature. They understood that people have these strange competitive urges.

Go to a youth hostel in Sweden and tell me communism is bad. Hell, just go the Sweden. One of the most desireable countries in the world to live in is *gasp* socialist. They maintain much of the free economy from capitalism's reign, but the country is truly a socialist place. In a communist country, the government expects work, yes, but they give back to the people an equal amount if not more than what they produced. That is the goal of communism and much of Europe is thriving on some healthcare system based on communism.

Anyway, great political site here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

Become informed (not claiming that I am).


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## kunz (Mar 23, 2010)

04mucklowd said:


> Its hardly communism



i agree a *bit* socialist *maybe* but definitely not communism


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Stini said:


> iasimp1997 said:
> 
> 
> > Stupid.
> ...



1-sweden and all of those countries live longer BECAUSE THEY DON'T EAT 5000 HAMBURGERS EVERY DAY!!!! Not because of their helathcare. Also, when my dad broke his leg in Canada, he had to wait 7 YES 7 hours to simply SEE the doctor. AND he had a BONE STICKING OUT and blood all over the place. Great healthcare system, eh?

2-and all of those people in congress only care about their fat @$$e$. All of those pron-life democrats who were "AGAINST abortion" signed the bill. America isn't heading in the right direction. The people now what they like, and forcing this down their throats isn't a good idea. 

I'm sorry, you're just wrong. :fp


----------



## Muesli (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> 1-sweden and all of those countries live longer BECAUSE THEY DON'T EAT 5000 HAMBURGERS EVERY DAY!!!! Not because of their helathcare. Also, when my dad broke his leg in Canada, he had to wait 7 YES 7 hours to simply SEE the doctor. AND he had a BONE STICKING OUT and blood all over the place. Great healthcare system, eh?
> 
> 2-and all of those people in congress only care about their fat @$$e$. All of those pron-life democrats who were "AGAINST abortion" signed the bill. America isn't heading in the right direction. The people now what they like, and forcing this down their throats isn't a good idea.
> 
> I'm sorry, you're just wrong. :fp



1: ********, I'm afraid to say. Nobody would be made to wait that long without treatment, especially with an open fracture in their leg. Exposed marrow leads to untreatable infections and amputations.

2: In your opinion.


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## endless_akatsuki (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> I'm sorry, you're just wrong. :fp



It's not for you to determine who is right or wrong, as these are opinions we're are talking about.

It's not wrong to think that National Healthcare is good or bad. It's debatable, but it's not a "you're just wrong" matter.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

endless_akatsuki said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, you're just wrong. :fp
> ...



lol :fp


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

masterofthebass said:


> iasimp1997 said:
> 
> 
> > endless_akatsuki said:
> ...



They love it cause it's not them paying for it, it's their children's taxes. That takes enough from taxes, do we really want to have to pay extreme taxes or increase the deficit so much more? No.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

yup


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## Muesli (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> masterofthebass said:
> 
> 
> > iasimp1997 said:
> ...


If you broke your back in a car accident how much would it cost you to get treatment? What if you had to be fed through a straw for 2 months on a hospital ward?

I bet that would cost a hell of a lot more with your health insurance than a higher tax rate.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

so? if its your fault its your problem. if its the drivers fault they should pay for it. people who work hard shouldn't pay for something that they aren't concerned in. honestly, that just takes incentive to work away from people. benjamin franklin once said something along these lines:

if you want people to get out of debt just let them fend for themselves

nowadays, its cool to have government pay for you or to get awards for participation or maybe to live on honest people's money. some people have strain from the right path. also, they want to legalise all illegs. and gay mariages too ? what's happening?!


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## puzzlemaster (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> endless_akatsuki said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...



I hope that facepalm was at yourself


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

you can just keep hoping then lol


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## puzzlemaster (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> you can just keep hoping then lol



Then you just proved how much of an idiot you are...you can't take a debatable topic and turn it in your favor and say nothing else goes.. That would be why it's a debate.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

well i said my opinion. try and change it


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## Muesli (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> so? if its your fault its your problem. if its the drivers fault they should pay for it. people who work hard shouldn't pay for something that they aren't concerned in. honestly, that just takes incentive to work away from people. benjamin franklin once said something along these lines:
> 
> if you want people to get out of debt just let them fend for themselves
> 
> nowadays, its cool to have government pay for you or to get awards for participation or maybe to live on honest people's money. some people have strain from the right path. also, they want to legalise all illegs. and gay mariages too ? what's happening?!


That is primary school logic. Eye for an eye.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

no. its common sense. just wait for the future.


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> so? if its your fault its your problem. if its the drivers fault they should pay for it. people who work hard shouldn't pay for something that they aren't concerned in.



I hope that the next time you're in a car crash, the EMT won't use any equipment on you unless you can pay for it with the money in your pocket. Afterall, he's spending the money of the Ambulance corp on you with no guarantee that it's gonna get back to the corp. Also, next time someone you know goes into cardiac arrest, maybe using an AED isn't the best idea until we can be sure he has the money to pay for the pads.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

i don't care what you hope. i won't be in a car crash. i'm careful.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> i don't care what you hope. i won't be in a car crash. i'm careful.



Right, and that prevents you from getting into a car crash by 100%.


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## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

Musli4brekkies said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > masterofthebass said:
> ...


I should have the option to health care or not. It's rare that that would happen and the gov't shouldn't make me have to have insurance or use their plan. Also what if I needed instant care for something? With universal health care it's much harder to get instant care. I talked about this earlier in the thread: my dad had cancer but was treated very quickly so it wouldn't spread. I'm worried that he wouldn't have gotten such rapid care with this universal plan. My cousin in England has had oral problems for a very long time, yet she has been treated so poorly and not quickly because of this universal plan.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> i don't care what you hope. i won't be in a car crash. i'm careful.



Judging only from your appearance for your videos, I don't think you're of legal age to be driving =/ How would you know you're careful.

Besides, if a drunk driver hits you on the side at 60 mph, why does it matter if you're a careful driver or not.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > i don't care what you hope. i won't be in a car crash. i'm careful.
> ...



of course it does! but if i am in a car crash, then i hope there's a heaven


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> i don't care what you hope. i won't be in a car crash. i'm careful.



HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO THE SCENE OF A CAR CRASH? It doesn't matter how careful you are, this happens all the time. I was on a call recently where someone was driving someone else to the hospital in an emergency situation, and on the way to the hospital they hit a car full of kids. A couple of these kids didn't have a parent with them, and likely had no money on them. Are we supposed to deny treatment because there is no 100% guarantee that this kid would be able to pay us back?

Also, you're like 12; you can't drive, so you can't even pretend to know what you're talking about.


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## puzzlemaster (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> i don't care what you hope. i won't be in a car crash. i'm careful.



I suppose that all drivers who get in accidents are being careless...


----------



## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...



So you're saying...wait...I have no idea what to say. No idea at all.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

i've BEEN in a car crash. and im 13, not 12


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## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...



No it doesn't. I'm not for this health care but you're making bad points. What if someone else isn't careful? You might going fine and someone runs a red light?
Of course then the person who ran the red light should pay your hospital costs.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

indeed. if its your fault you pay for it.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> i've BEEN in a car crash. and im 13, not 12



Then *obviously* you're not very careful. At all.


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> i've BEEN in a car crash. and im 13, not 12



Doesn't answer my question. Should we have not treated the little kid in the car that got hit because there was no guarantee that whatever money in gas/equipment was used would be compensated? Also, should the person who was driving the first car have been forced to pay for the entire thing, even though he was in an emergency situation?


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

listen. im not saying we shouldn't pay for the little kid. but why ruin the whole system? just fix bits of it. the bill if 1000 pages for god's sake. come on.

edit: and so what if he was in an emergency? why should taxpayers pay for it? they weren't responsible at all! and anyway, the world's cruel. you can't please everyone. about 84% of the people are pleased with healthcare as it is. just change it! not REforem it. jeez...


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> i've BEEN in a car crash. and im 13, not 12



pssht. Were you behind the wheel? If you were then you should be arrested -.-

You're 13, huh? Good job. 

I'm sure not driving but being in a car crash makes you _the most_ careful driver to live.

And to your brilliant above post: I think most bills are 1000 pages long.



CuBeOrDiE said:


> and so what if he was in an emergency? why should taxpayers pay for it? they weren't responsible at all! and anyway, the world's cruel. you can't please everyone.



I NOE!!!11! WE SHULDANT PAIY 4 TEH RODES 2!!! ITZ A HARD WORLED AOT THAR AND WE SHULD BILD AOR OWN RODES!

WE SHULD ALSO STOP PAIYING 4 PUBLIC SCHOOLZ!!! EVEN IF A POOR FAMIRY WIT A CHILD WIT POTENTIAL, LETZ NOT MAEK EDUCASION POSSIBOL 4 DEM!!!


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> listen. im not saying we shouldn't pay for the little kid. but why ruin the whole system? just fix bits of it. the bill if 1000 pages for god's sake. come on.
> 
> edit: and so what if he was in an emergency? why should taxpayers pay for it? they weren't responsible at all! and anyway, the world's cruel. you can't please everyone.



SO you're saying not to treat the driver/wounded passenger of the original car because it's technically their fault? This isn't sounding very Christian of you.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

oh, so now your bringing christianity in! i have my own definition of christian. leave it alone. and we're in debt already. healthcare reform is too expensive for this.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> oh, so now your bringing christianity in! i have *my own definition of christian*. leave it alone. and we're in debt already. healthcare reform is too expensive for this.



Um, what?


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

what do you mean what ? lol


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> oh, so now your bringing christianity in! i have my own definition of christian. leave it alone. and we're in debt already. healthcare reform is too expensive for this.



Define your definition of "Christian". I think all of the main branches of Christianity promote you to "love others as you love yourself" if Jesus Christ has anything to do with Christianity.

Also, you're ignoring all my posts. Ansar dem all plox.


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

Ethan Rosen said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > listen. im not saying we shouldn't pay for the little kid. but why ruin the whole system? just fix bits of it. the bill if 1000 pages for god's sake. come on.
> ...



I would say treat them but the guy who's fault it was should have to pay. If he couldn't pay it right away, fine then goes into some debt. I don't care what the circumstances are when you get behind the wheel you should be able to take the blame for whatever you caused, and face the consequences (in this case, paying for the injured persons hospital fees).


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## Ethan Rosen (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> oh, so now your bringing christianity in! i have my own definition of christian. leave it alone. and we're in debt already. healthcare reform is too expensive for this.



tl;dr: avoiding the question


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

yes THANK YOU that was a beautiful post. 

edit: i mean the one before the previous one


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Ethan Rosen said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > oh, so now your bringing christianity in! i have my own definition of christian. leave it alone. and we're in debt already. healthcare reform is too expensive for this.
> ...



i am? let me answer it:

the one who's fault it is should pay. and if they can't, sucks for them. don't drive.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> yes THANK YOU that was a beautiful post.
> 
> edit: i mean the one before the previous one



you're still avoiding both ethan's and my posts. Instead, you're hiding behind some other person's point.

EDIT:

You answered one of ethans. Now answer all of mines with a logic that is reasonable.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

ok. be direct: what do you want me to answer?


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> ok. be direct: what do you want me to answer?



err... how about ALL of the posts I made to you that you seem to have ignored.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> the one who's fault it is should pay. *and if they can't, sucks for them. don't drive*.



*You don't have to be driving to get into a car accident.* You could be biking, or walking, or playing on a playstructure, or in bed sleeping.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

i don't have too much time. give me one question.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > the one who's fault it is should pay. *and if they can't, sucks for them. don't drive*.
> ...



yup. then its the drivers fault and he should pay.


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## biohead (Mar 23, 2010)

Don't feed the 13 year old kid... Doesn't look like anything good will come out of it.

And where i'm from, as i said before, we have public health care. But but but... you can still pay and go to a private hospital... i'm 100% sure its going to be the same way in the US.
So... why are you complaining ?


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > *You don't have to be driving to get into a car accident.* You could be biking, or walking, or playing on a playstructure, or in bed sleeping.
> ...



This was more about the "I'll never get in a car crash, I'm careful!" mentality.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

im not sure. obama is forcing us to buy insurance and all that. i don't think anyone but political figures will have private doctors that are any good.

and im not against healthcare. im against healthcare REFORM. seriously, don't reform something that works pretty well!


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > miniGOINGS said:
> ...



what?


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## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

biohead said:


> Don't feed the 13 year old kid... Doesn't look like anything good will come out of it.
> 
> And where i'm from, as i said before, we have public health care. But but but... you can still pay and go to a private hospital... i'm 100% sure its going to be the same way in the US.
> So... why are you complaining ?



It's gonna get a lot more expensive to go to a private one, because they will have to raise their prices due to losing so many people to Obamacare.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> what?



Nevermind, I give up. You're utter ignorance is starting to confuse me. And quite badly I might add.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...



very well. Let me give you all my main questions in one post so I don't waste your precious time.

1. How is being a careful driver going to keep you safe from a crash? It's not like everybody's healthy
--------1.5. How are you making posts stating you're a careful driver when you can't drive?
2. If you think taxpayers shouldn't be funding things like this and help shouldn't be given because "the world is cruel", then why are we funding schools, roads, parks, and memorials?
3. What is your definition of "Christianity"? It seems to go against Jesus' words of, "Love others as you love yourself."
4. Since you've been in a car crash, how would that keep you safe when you are driving later in your life?


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

utter ignorance? you mean common sence? and let me remind you that hitler started out by talking all sweet...and look what happened... of course, Obama's not violent, but he's misleading (in my eyes)

disagree with me if you want; its all cool


----------



## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> utter ignorance? you mean common sence? and let me remind you that hitler started out by talking all sweet...and look what happened... of course, Obama's not violent, but he's misleading (in my eyes)
> 
> disagree with me if you want; its all cool



lol sence

I made my post with questions. Please answer them and not ignore them like you have to almost all of my posts.


----------



## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> utter ignorance? you mean common sence? and let me remind you that hitler started out by talking all sweet...and look what happened... of course, Obama's not violent, but he's misleading (in my eyes)
> 
> disagree with me if you want; its all cool



...are you comparing Obama to Hitler?

Oh and:

ig·no·rance   /ˈɪgnərəns/ [ig-ner-uhns] 
–noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

Do you actually understand the implications of this act?


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## SlapShot (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> im not sure. obama is forcing us to buy insurance and all that. i don't think anyone but political figures will have private doctors that are any good.
> 
> and im not against healthcare. im against healthcare REFORM. seriously, don't reform something that works pretty well!



The politicians get the best healthcare possible, while the peons get the dregs. I'm not surprised that some doctors plan on quiting.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

aznmortalx said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > miniGOINGS said:
> ...



1-its not. but if you're careful and you are in a car crash, its not your fault. 

1.5-i didn't state im a careful driver. i said i would drive carefully

2-tax payers should help pay for this, but not entirely...

3-christian=follower of christ. and "love your neighbour as myself?" so why not just give up all of your belongings and die a hobbo? there are limits. and love doesn't come from FORCING someone to do something. its the THOUGHT that coutns. FORCING someone to pay isn't love. if you would like to pay for someone's bill, great. but not FORCE someone to pay.


*the thing about all of these people who voted for the bill is that the yare too generous with other people's money. they're multimillionaires! why don't they pay for this themselves? and obama's wife has 20 people taking care of her. is that normal? all of that money could go to resolve...dunno...help to the poor?*

4-i just do.


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## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> 3-christian=follower of christ. and "love your neighbour as myself?" so why not just give up all of your belongings and die a hobbo? there are limits. and love doesn't come from FORCING someone to do something. its the THOUGHT that coutns. FORCING someone to pay isn't love. if you would like to pay for someone's bill, great. but not FORCE someone to pay.



My posts make it obvious that I'm against this health care reform but this stuff about Christianity I have to disagree with. I'll start with this: I am a Christian. Why not die a hobo? Because you don't want that to happen to others so if you love your neighbor as yourself, why would you want that to happen to you. You want the best for everyone, including yourself. In the Christian mind the ultimate goal is heaven so being a billionaire isn't necessarily what you should want for yourself either.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> and obama's wife has 20 people taking care of her. is that normal?



No. But then again, only 46 people in the ENTIRE WORLD have been in her position. Ever.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > 3-christian=follower of christ. and "love your neighbour as myself?" so why not just give up all of your belongings and die a hobbo? there are limits. and love doesn't come from FORCING someone to do something. its the THOUGHT that coutns. FORCING someone to pay isn't love. if you would like to pay for someone's bill, great. but not FORCE someone to pay.
> ...



you just misunderstood it all :fp


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > and obama's wife has 20 people taking care of her. is that normal?
> ...



so? and we have to pay for that with taxes! and she didn't DO anything special..its all the fact she married obama.


----------



## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> i won't be in a car crash. i'm careful.



What if I blindside you?



CuBeOrDiE said:


> so? if its your fault its your problem.



And what if it isn't your fault? Does that then make it everyone's problem?

Whose fault is it that 16% of Americans are below the poverty line? I'm willing to bet that a significant proportion of those didn't choose to be so poor.
If you think that it is their fault they're poor and they can help it, prove it to me.



CuBeOrDiE said:


> people who work hard shouldn't pay for something that they aren't concerned in. honestly, that just takes incentive to work away from people.



You're 13, I doubt you've worked a day of your life.

As far as incentive to work, Sweden has roughly half the unemployment levels yet the mean tax rate is about 15% higher. Seem unusual?



CuBeOrDiE said:


> and gay mariages too ? what's happening?!



Seeing as God made people gay (I lol at how some people still consider sexuality a 'lifestyle choice') I guess they should suffer for it and not be allowed to get married right? Right?


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...



You make your posts very hard to understand, and that is not a complement about you using big words or anything.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Escher said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > i won't be in a car crash. i'm careful.
> ...



oh no. look at that last statement...god didn't make people gay. why can't gay people have babies? why didn't a single person in the bible be gay? hm??

only with all of this freedom and retarded concepts in everyone's head do they think gay is normal. it shouldn't be promoted.

work? yes, i have worked. and i know what its like

and what about poor people? get a job! the reason they don't want to is government provides them with stuff without work! they're poor because they're lazy!

of couse, they're are people who are poor and have conditions preventing them from working, but very few...only like 1%...


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## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

Actually a lot of people in the Bible were gay but it was frowned upon. I do believe some people are born gay but I believe it's an obstacle God wants certain to overcome, I really believe that. Homosexuality would not have been so frowned upon in the Bible if God didn't want people to change. I've known some people who were homosexual and have changed through Christian Homosexual Rehab Centers. God gives us all our own different obstacles he wants us to hurdle.

This is getting pretty off-topic so can we at least try to keep this civilized. If it stays civilized and people don't make nonsensical statements galore it could be a very good debate. I just don't want the mods shutting it down for getting out of hand.


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Mar 23, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > miniGOINGS said:
> ...



I'll never get cancer. I just know it! Why in the world should I be forced to pay for OTHER people with cancer.


----------



## Daniel Wu (Mar 23, 2010)

I'm not sure how health care drifted into Christian stance on gay marriage but http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm
CCC 2357-2359


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

lol


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Ethan Rosen said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...



you shouldn't.


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> why can't gay people have babies?



gay != sterile


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> Actually a lot of people in the Bible were gay but it was frowned upon. I do believe some people are born gay but I believe it's an obstacle God wants certain to overcome, I really believe that. Homosexuality would not have been so frowned upon in the Bible if God didn't want people to change. I've known some people who were homosexual and have changed through Christian Homosexual Rehab Centers. God gives us all our own different obstacles he wants us to hurdle.




You are a fruitcake. Stop using your magic sky wizard to justify your homophobic propaganda.



CuBeOrDiE said:


> and gay mariages too ? what's happening?!




Progress.



CuBeOrDiE said:


> only with all of this freedom and retarded concepts in everyone's head do they think gay is normal. it shouldn't be promoted.




It's perfectly normal, it's not promoted anymore than being straight is (not that promotion is a problem).


----------



## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > I'll never get cancer. I just know it! Why in the world should I be forced to pay for OTHER people with cancer.
> ...



Because if *they* have cancer, it *must* be their fault!


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

:fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp

progress?!?!?! more like going over to the darkside


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## Daniel Wu (Mar 23, 2010)

One real problem with the health bill is that you must have health insurance or the government fines you. That's just stupid. You're being forced to get health insurance.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> 1.5-i didn't state im a careful driver. i said i would drive carefully











CuBeOrDiE said:


> i don't care what you hope. i won't be in a car crash. i'm careful.



You didn't say you *would* drive carefully. You said you *are* careful.




CuBeOrDiE said:


> 3-christian=follower of christ. and "love your neighbour as myself?" so why not just give up all of your belongings and die a hobbo? there are limits. and love doesn't come from FORCING someone to do something. its the THOUGHT that coutns. FORCING someone to pay isn't love. if you would like to pay for someone's bill, great. but not FORCE someone to pay.


Dying as a begging hobo won't help anybody... so why would that have anything to do with loving others like yourself. 

So, if you think it's the thought that counts, you obviously pay no thought or heed to the people struggling, do you? Still, you're not seeming much like a Christian.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > Ethan Rosen said:
> ...



you missed the point: why be FORCED to pay for them? if you have the heart, give a donation. but if you are struggling to feed your family..why force you to pay for them?


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp
> 
> progress?!?!?! more like going over to the darkside




Humour me. Name something wrong with being gay.


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > Actually a lot of people in the Bible were gay but it was frowned upon. I do believe some people are born gay but I believe it's an obstacle God wants certain to overcome, I really believe that. Homosexuality would not have been so frowned upon in the Bible if God didn't want people to change. I've known some people who were homosexual and have changed through Christian Homosexual Rehab Centers. God gives us all our own different obstacles he wants us to hurdle.
> ...



I'm not a homophobe. I have a couple gay friends but I have problems also. I'd love it if they would go to a rehab for something like this but I've got problems I've gotta work on too. I'm saying EVERYONE has different problems, and yes I believe this is a problem. People are born with things that they should try to overcome. Yes, I believe are born gay but I also believe people are born with an eye for lust or greed. These are all things we have to overcome.


----------



## Muesli (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp
> ...


<3 Kir


----------



## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp
> 
> progress?!?!?! more like going over to the darkside


----------



## Muesli (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > Edmund said:
> ...


Being Gay is a problem? 

_I think being Christian is a problem, and it's a problem that you must overcome._ <<<-See how weird that sounds?


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Mar 23, 2010)

@cubeordie

I was on a call a couple of days after a storm. This guy was driving and a tree fell on his car. This guy happened to have been unbelievably lucky, and walked away with relatively minor injuries. Had his car been about two feet further in the road, he would have been really screwed, and anything less than critical condition would have been a miracle. 
Say that this guy didn't have the money to cover the treatment he needed. Are we supposed to deny him care?


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > You are a fruitcake. Stop using your magic sky wizard to justify your homophobic propaganda.
> ...




I don't think people are born gay. I also don't think it's a problem. Why do you think it's a problem?


----------



## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

Musli4brekkies said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > Kirjava said:
> ...



Not weird at all. Ethan thinks gays are people that have been given a challenge from Christ. I don't think it seems weird to him.

@cubeordie if you see this: Read my new post and answer it please. I want a real answer.


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

Musli4brekkies said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > Kirjava said:
> ...



I don't understand why being gay is a problem, I'll be honest. But I don't understand why being lustful or envious is a sin. I couldn't begin to understand the trinity. But what do I know is that God tells us being gay is wrong, being envious is wrong, being lustful is wrong and to believe in the trinity. Maybe it sounds like I'm a blind follower but God wants us to have faith.

Edit: This is becoming far too off-topic and CuBeOrDiE, I agree with your general stance but could you make worse points? I don't think so.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp :fp
> ...



liking men oooo what den?


----------



## biohead (Mar 23, 2010)

If it is so wrong being gay... why is it so right to watch 2 girls making out ??

And this has nothing to do with health care anymore...


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> liking men oooo what den?



Best post of the thread. By far.


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> I don't understand why being gay is a problem, I'll be honest. But I don't understand why being lustful or envious is a sin. I couldn't begin to understand the trinity. But what do I know is that God tells us being gay is wrong, being envious is wrong, being lustful is wrong and to believe in the trinity. Maybe it sounds like I'm a blind follower but God wants us to have faith.




This is what happens when you get your morals from a crazy book instead of discovering them with logic and reason.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

biohead said:


> If it is so wrong being gay... why is it so right to watch 2 girls making out ??
> 
> And this has nothing to do with health care anymore...



1-i don't watch lesbians making out. maybe you do, but not me

2-indeed, it doesn't


----------



## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

biohead said:


> If it is so wrong being gay... why is it so right to watch 2 girls making out ??
> 
> And this has nothing to do with health care anymore...



When did Ethan say it was right to watch girls making out. I didn't catch him saying that. Linkie to the post?

And I'd try to drive this back on topic, but I don't think anybody active on this thread now is interested on shifting away from the current discussion. You can blame Cubeordie if you wish to pinpoint a reason to the topic switch.


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...




And what's wrong with that?


----------



## Muesli (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why being gay is a problem, I'll be honest. But I don't understand why being lustful or envious is a sin. I couldn't begin to understand the trinity. But what do I know is that God tells us being gay is wrong, being envious is wrong, being lustful is wrong and to believe in the trinity. Maybe it sounds like I'm a blind follower but God wants us to have faith.
> ...


<3 Kir


----------



## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> oh no. look at that last statement...god didn't make people gay. why can't gay people have babies? why didn't a single person in the bible be gay? hm??



You clearly don't know **** about sexuality. It has been _scientifically proven_ that there is a genetic component to sexuality and there is such a thing as 'brain gender', not limited to the presence or not of a Y chromosome.

Nobody in the bible was gay because the concept of being exclusively homosexual or 'straight' DIDN'T EXIST. It is a modern, constructed concept.



CuBeOrDiE said:


> only with all of this freedom and retarded concepts in everyone's head do they think gay is normal. it shouldn't be promoted.



Yes it is normal.



CuBeOrDiE said:


> work? yes, i have worked. and i know what its like



What? At school? That isn't hard work, trust me. 
Proper jobs are not available to you at your age, you don't know what it's like.



CuBeOrDiE said:


> and what about poor people? get a job! the reason they don't want to is government provides them with stuff without work! they're poor because they're lazy!



Once again you prove you know nothing about getting jobs. People don't just employ anybody, and if you have no idea how to conduct yourself in an interview, or you have no qualifications or the ability to adapt and learn skills in the workplace then you simply don't get jobs. Is that their fault?



CuBeOrDiE said:


> of couse, they're are people who are poor and have conditions preventing them from working, but very few...only like 1%...



Thanks for conceding somewhat. However, you're demonstrably wrong about your figure: here you can see a few figures about disability and employment in the US (from 07). 26% of those with a severe disability are below the poverty line, and that represents 12% of the total population.

And of course it doesn't stop at medical disability, like I said above, some people just have _never been taught to get a job_. How the hell is that any fault of theirs?


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why being gay is a problem, I'll be honest. But I don't understand why being lustful or envious is a sin. I couldn't begin to understand the trinity. But what do I know is that God tells us being gay is wrong, being envious is wrong, being lustful is wrong and to believe in the trinity. Maybe it sounds like I'm a blind follower but God wants us to have faith.
> ...



define logic and reason. personally, it makes sence that there is an afterlife. energy has to go SOMEWHERE.... and your spirit is energy right?


----------



## Cyrus C. (Mar 23, 2010)

I don't really have an opinion, but, I do know in India they have healthcare & everyone goes to private hospitals because they are usually better. That will probably happen here (history repeats itself).


----------



## biohead (Mar 23, 2010)

aznmortalx said:


> biohead said:
> 
> 
> > If it is so wrong being gay... why is it so right to watch 2 girls making out ??
> ...



I wasn't quoting anyone... it was just to all that are saying that being gay is wrong.


----------



## Muesli (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > Edmund said:
> ...


No.


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> define logic and reason. personally, it makes sence that there is an afterlife. energy has to go SOMEWHERE.... and your spirit is energy right?




If you're not going to answer my questions, why should I answer your crazy ramblings?


----------



## puzzlemaster (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> biohead said:
> 
> 
> > If it is so wrong being gay... why is it so right to watch 2 girls making out ??
> ...



And to think I thought you were actually a somewhat intelligent individual.. At this point, you've proved this: that you are a careful driver at the age of 13, that you know everything about the reform while you clearly dont, that you are your own version of a christian because you're that good, and that being gay is wrong because men liking men is a problem. Do us all a favor...come up with some intelligent responses because at this point you're only destroying your image more and more...not that there was much left at this point...


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Escher said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > oh no. look at that last statement...god didn't make people gay. why can't gay people have babies? why didn't a single person in the bible be gay? hm??
> ...



i think this is your best post so far. i agree with some things and disagree with others...

1-it has also been "scientificlly proven" before that the earth is flat. science changes. its not precise

2-no its not

3-no, not at school. i have done jobs. not paying ones...just for people here and there. i don't mind. its hard work, but its a job. and then, you completely ignore intellectual (nerdy for you) jobs.

4-you definitely have a point. its not your fault if you don't know how to get a job. that is something that should be worked on


----------



## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> define logic and reason. personally, it makes sence that there is an afterlife. energy has to go SOMEWHERE.... and your spirit is energy right?



Ah-ha. I know not to make any posts in this thread aimed at you anymore.


----------



## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > Edmund said:
> ...



Umm... could you make better points? I'm sorry... but wow.

Once again: roflololololsence


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why being gay is a problem, I'll be honest. But I don't understand why being lustful or envious is a sin. I couldn't begin to understand the trinity. But what do I know is that God tells us being gay is wrong, being envious is wrong, being lustful is wrong and to believe in the trinity. Maybe it sounds like I'm a blind follower but God wants us to have faith.
> ...



It may seem crazy to you but the reason it has so much appeal to so many people is because so much of it lines up so perfectly it's hard to believe some average Joes wrote it.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

puzzlemaster said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > biohead said:
> ...



and you know everything about the bill so you can say i know nothing? and as for destroying my image... does it look like i care? ive been banned for saying there is something wrong with being gay. ban me again. my oppinion won't change.

edit: and im not a retard...im going to mathcoutns state contest saturday


----------



## Daniel Wu (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> 4-you definitely have a point. its not your fault if you don't know how to get a job. that is something that should be worked on


But then there are also people who are just lazy and expect everything to be handed to them. I actually listened to someone seriously tell me that he should be payed to do nothing because he has the right to be lazy. That's just stupid and I imagine that a lot of people who don't have a job are people with this type of attitude.


----------



## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

puzzlemaster said:


> [...] you're [cubeordie] only destroying your image more and more...not that there was much left at this point...



Well, he could still use Petrus


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

yup. i said that before... and im now getting bashed for it


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > Edmund said:
> ...




No, I'm not turning this into a religous debate. I'm complaining about your justification.

You say being gay is a problem. "The book told me to say that" isn't an explanation. The magic book also says a lot of other things you don't follow, you're just using it to justify your homophobia and not have to explain it.

Maybe if you thought for yourself, you'd change your mind, maybe you wouldn't. But at least then you'd have a reason instead of it being simply because you are brainwashed.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

aznmortalx said:


> puzzlemaster said:
> 
> 
> > [...] you're [cubeordie] only destroying your image more and more...not that there was much left at this point...
> ...



definately. but im not going to use petrus just to **** them all of


----------



## puzzlemaster (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> puzzlemaster said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...



Actually, I didnt have to say anything about your knowledge of the bill...you showed us how little you know by yourself . And yea...banning doesn't fix people i suppose...do you know the definition of insanity? 

Congrats...I did that too...in middle school...that doesn't really prove anything of your intelligence..just an fyi...a team will take anyone as long as they fill their quota.


----------



## puzzlemaster (Mar 23, 2010)

aznmortalx said:


> puzzlemaster said:
> 
> 
> > [...] you're [cubeordie] only destroying your image more and more...not that there was much left at this point...
> ...



Why? I feel as if he needs to simplify it more for himself so that he can use it...hence his method.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > Kirjava said:
> ...



humans have their information from different sources. you saying me wrong and me being brainwashed could easily be applied to you. you just were taught differently. i believe im right and so do you. we'll see who's right later.


----------



## Bryan (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> I don't think people are born gay.





Escher said:


> You clearly don't know **** about sexuality. It has been _scientifically proven_ that there is a genetic component to sexuality and there is such a thing as 'brain gender', not limited to the presence or not of a Y chromosome.



OK, you two fight now.



Escher said:


> Nobody in the bible was gay because the concept of being exclusively homosexual or 'straight' DIDN'T EXIST.


I'm pretty sure the guys in Genesis 19:5 are gay.


----------



## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> You say being gay is a problem. "The book told me to say that" isn't an explanation. The magic book also says a lot of other things you don't follow, you're just using it to justify your homophobia and not have to explain it.



Hey Kirjava, this is just a question I want you're opinion on,

Would it be justifiable for him to believe that homosexuality is wrong if he did follow the rest of so called "magic book"? 

I'm just looking for your point of view.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

puzzlemaster said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > puzzlemaster said:
> ...



i don't get that last sentence. and i think i know better than you that this bill is insane. its been passed with shady deals and buying. and it had a disaproval rating of about 60%. why? gee, that's a question!


----------



## Daniel Wu (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > Kirjava said:
> ...


One could say that homosexuality is contrary to the laws of nature.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

hehe


----------



## puzzlemaster (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> puzzlemaster said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...



You can't understand that and you feel like you understand the bill? Just another thing...You answered your own question in your post...Why was it passed? because of "shady deals and buying." Not that that's what I believe...however since you're convinced of it I might as well feed you your own crap.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

wow...i thought speedcubers were smart. guess im wrong again and again.

yeah, im and ******* and i should die. bash on me i rly don't care.


----------



## puzzlemaster (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> *wow...i thought speedcubers were smart. guess im wrong again and again.*
> 
> yeah, im and ******* and i should die. bash on me i rly don't care.



Aren't you a speedcuber?


----------



## guitardude7241 (Mar 23, 2010)

rickcube said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > Edmund said:
> ...


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > Kirjava said:
> ...



What it's coming down to know is our difference in religious beliefs. And you say you don't wanna argue about religion and fine, that's the end of it. I don't plan on changing my religious beliefs unless another religion has a huge revelation. But I don't think I'll ever turn to denying God because what if there is an afterlife? Isn't it nice to have a safety? If you wanna practical reason to believe in God there it is. 
I doubt I'm changing your mind here so this is the end of this argument, between me and you, sound good?



guitardude7241 said:


> average joes? prophets aren't average joes.



I was saying they weren't average joes.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

oh, so now your trying to be a smartass?

edit: @puzzlemasters last post


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> humans have their information from different sources. you saying me wrong and me being brainwashed could easily be applied to you. you just were taught differently. i believe im right and so do you. we'll see who's right later.




I was raised Catholic. Since I changed my mind on those issues ingrained by the church by myself, I would not call that brainwashing. More like... thinking.



Bryan said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think people are born gay.
> ...




OMG ROWAN HOW DARE U USE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE AGAINST MY OPINION.

But seriously, I find this hard to believe. I view sexuality as a man made concept.



miniGOINGS said:


> Hey Kirjava, this is just a question I want you're opinion on,
> 
> Would it be justifiable for him to believe that homosexuality is wrong if he did follow the rest of so called "magic book"?
> 
> I'm just looking for your point of view.




No, I was just pointing out inconsistancies in his beliefs.



rickcube said:


> One could say that homosexuality is contrary to the laws of nature.




You could say that, but you'd be wrong.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

just leave this alone. let's agree to disagree


----------



## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> i think this is your best post so far. i agree with some things and disagree with others...
> 
> 1-it has also been "scientificlly proven" before that the earth is flat. science changes. its not precise



The Greeks proved that the earth was spherical hundreds of years before Christ. The 'flat earth' theory is also a modern conception, that appeared in the last 200 years or so. That doesn't prove me wrong or even show that I could be wrong.

Science does indeed change, but for now it's completely logical to believe what scientists say rather than ignoring it for the sake of some ridiculous prejudice.



CuBeOrDiE said:


> 2-no its not



Erm, yes it is.
It has been shown that a vast majority of homosexual (or bi-sexual) people are genetically hard-wired that way. Do you think they can help that? And that they deserve your ridiculous prejudice?



CuBeOrDiE said:


> 3-no, not at school. i have done jobs. not paying ones...just for people here and there. i don't mind. its hard work, but its a job. and then, you completely ignore intellectual (nerdy for you) jobs.



Hmm, so what jobs have you actually done then?

I don't ignore them. They are just as difficult or more so, but in a different sense. It's just that they are irrelevant in the context of poverty.

I'm a little baffled as to why you think that I need 'intellectual' dumbed down to 'nerdy'.



CuBeOrDiE said:


> 4-you definitely have a point. its not your fault if you don't know how to get a job. that is something that should be worked on



Exactly! That's my whole point! 

If you don't know how to get a job, you can't pay for health insurance. Is that your fault?


----------



## puzzlemaster (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> oh, so now your trying to be a smartass?
> 
> edit: @puzzlemasters last post



Succeeding and trying are 2 different things...besides...you called yourself stupid...what do you want me to say to that?


----------



## endless_akatsuki (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> oh, so now your trying to be a smartass?
> 
> edit: @puzzlemasters last post



are you ever gonna stop being a dumbass? 

okay, okay...I really don't mean to insult you or anything, but grow up, and start thinking more. Please.




I wonder what other random topics this thread will churn out (Religion and Homophobia...what next?)


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

1-:fp

2-yes it is

3-stuff like working a bit in lawn maintenance here and there.

4-there aren't a lot of people that can't get a job


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > No, I'm not turning this into a religous debate. I'm complaining about your justification.
> ...




I'd rather have truth than comfort, sadly. 

Just... please stop blindly believing things when you don't know why you're believing in them. You're hurting people.


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

endless_akatsuki said:


> I wonder what other random topics this thread will churn out (Religion and Homophobia...what next?)


Digimon vs. Pokemon?


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

puzzlemaster said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > oh, so now your trying to be a smartass?
> ...



yup. succeeding and trying ARE two different things.

edit: i think this thread will turn out more popular than my f2l thread...


----------



## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> endless_akatsuki said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder what other random topics this thread will churn out (Religion and Homophobia...what next?)
> ...



Bakugan

@cubeordie's post: That's because this the posts you have made here have less facts than your f2l method has advantages.


----------



## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Kirjava, this is just a question I want you're opinion on,
> ...



Ok.

Oh and Edmund, Gen 1 and some Gen 2 and Gen 3 Pokemon beat Digimon, but as a whole, Digimon beats Pokemon.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

im not blindly beleiving.... over 1/2 the people in the world are christian. america was founded on christian beliefs. gee, that's interesting!


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> Kirjava said:
> 
> 
> > miniGOINGS said:
> ...



No Gen 1 and 2 Pokemon beat Digimon but Gen 3 totally loses to Digimon. What are you smoking? And as a whole Pokemon!


----------



## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> No Gen 1 and 2 Pokemon beat Digimon but Gen 3 totally loses to Digimon. What are you smoking? And as a whole Pokemon!



Some Gen 2's are bad, and some Gen 3's are good. I do like Pokemon though. I meant, factoring in the lameness of the new Pokemon storyline, Digimon wins.


----------



## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

no. yugioh.


----------



## Muesli (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> im not blindly beleiving.... over 1/2 the people in the world are christian. america was founded on christian beliefs. gee, that's interesting!


Just because Christianity is powerful doesn't mean it is right. Blindly believing means refusing to look at ones faith critically.


----------



## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> im not blindly beleiving.... over 1/2 the people in the world are christian. america was founded on christian beliefs. gee, that's interesting!



America was also founded with the belief that blacks don't deserve rights.

That has changed.

America was founded on Christian beliefs.

That has changed.

I'm a Christian too, but I don't blind myself and attempting to blind others by bestowing religion upon other people. I believe that being gay isn't right, but I'm not about to deny them what they wish to be just because it is against my beliefs. I also don't think that America is very Christian-based now. What with the media and the popular television shows being aired.


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > No Gen 1 and 2 Pokemon beat Digimon but Gen 3 totally loses to Digimon. What are you smoking? And as a whole Pokemon!
> ...



Yes new Pokemon is rather lame but you can't top the goodness of early Pokemon. That puts them so far ahead.


----------



## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

Point taken, Edmund. 



CuBeOrDiE said:


> im not blindly beleiving.... over 1/2 the people in the world are christian. america was founded on christian beliefs. gee, that's interesting!









Over 1/2? Looks more like ~1/3 to me.


----------



## koreancuber (Mar 23, 2010)

Ok, this thread is getting out of hand. Why is pokemon and yugioh the main topics in a Healthcare thread?
Back on topic: I think (as a perspective of an Asian (Korean)) this bill was needed far long ago. In Korea, healthcare isn't that expensive and it is available. My family use Korean healthcare although we are in Florida. I have heard many stories about the costs of the bills (money bills) when in the hospital. I've heard stories which some people divorce because of this. The healthcare system has to improve in America in one way or another. I am not sure if it's the best way, but I'm pretty sure it's better than nothing.


----------



## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

koreancuber said:


> Ok, this thread is getting out of hand. Why is pokemon and yugioh the main topics in a Healthcare thread?



ARE YOU BELITTLING POKEMON?!?!?!?!


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## koreancuber (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> koreancuber said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, this thread is getting out of hand. Why is pokemon and yugioh the main topics in a Healthcare thread?
> ...



Yes. I think it's kinda pointless. (IMO)


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

koreancuber said:


> Ok, this thread is getting out of hand. Why is pokemon and yugioh the main topics in a Healthcare thread?



I think they're trying to steer the topic away from cubeordie's posts. This is just as off topic, but I suppose it's better than a religion/belief thread which has much more potential to be a flame war than a silly argument over video games.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

koreancuber said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > koreancuber said:
> ...






Spoiler


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## Edmund (Mar 23, 2010)

aznmortalx said:


> koreancuber said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, this thread is getting out of hand. Why is pokemon and yugioh the main topics in a Healthcare thread?
> ...



Not just video games, they have cards, TV shows and action figures.


HAHAHAHA miniGOING's picture.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> aznmortalx said:
> 
> 
> > koreancuber said:
> ...



Fine. Japanese merchandise.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 23, 2010)

Edmund said:


> HAHAHAHA miniGOING's picture.



Thanks. I try, I really do.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

yes. it has strayed from the constitution. and you can believe w/e you want...im just making my point. don't have to agree w/me


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## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> I was raised Catholic. Since I changed my mind on those issues ingrained by the church by myself, I would not call that brainwashing. More like... thinking.



Yep, so was I. I went to a Catholic secondary and primary school but luckily I was switched on enough to be aware that belief is another word for opinion.
Luckily the only part of the curriculum that was altered compared to standard was Religious Education but I had so much fun arguing with people that didn't matter.



Kirjava said:


> Bryan said:
> 
> 
> > Kirjava said:
> ...



I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is such a thing as brain gender, but the idea that people are exclusively straight or homosexual is modern concept. In the 18th century it was considered perfectly normal for a man to have a 'special relationship' with his best male friend...

@Bryan: Yeah, I'd forgotten about that, sorry. Aren't they angels though? I'd imagine they'd be a bit hotter than Lot's daughters


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## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> im not blindly beleiving.... over 1/2 the people in the world are christian. america was founded on christian beliefs. gee, that's interesting!



Oh my god, you're an idiot.


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## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)




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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

so that's you trying to impress your boyfriend?


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## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)




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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Escher said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > im not blindly beleiving.... over 1/2 the people in the world are christian. america was founded on christian beliefs. gee, that's interesting!
> ...



yes i am. i meant in north america.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirjava said:


>



was that supposed to impress me? he has his lip pierced and he looks messed up.


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## Kirjava (Mar 23, 2010)




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## Escher (Mar 23, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> Escher said:
> 
> 
> > you're an idiot.
> ...



I win.

/thread


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## endless_akatsuki (Mar 24, 2010)

Lmao. Don't go overboard.


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## dannyz0r (Mar 24, 2010)

North America != the world. Don't try to cover your fail.


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 24, 2010)

north america does not equal the world.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 24, 2010)

dannyz0r said:


> North America != the world. Don't try to cover your fail.





CuBeOrDiE said:


> north america does not equal the world.



Did you just have to write it out for yourself to understand it?


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 24, 2010)

well i didn't understand that != meant not equal


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## Kirjava (Mar 24, 2010)




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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 24, 2010)

a bit of self respect, plz...

it makes people think ur gay...


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 24, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> it makes people think ur gay...



And what's wrong with that?


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## Escher (Mar 24, 2010)




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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 24, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > it makes people think ur gay...
> ...



:fp here we go again... *sigh*


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## Kirjava (Mar 24, 2010)




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## Muesli (Mar 24, 2010)

CuBeOrDiE said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > CuBeOrDiE said:
> ...


To be honest you didn't answer the question the first time.


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## royzabeast (Mar 24, 2010)

Why is the no answer so stupid and ignorant? "Boo, communism" button is just a shot at the people against the bill. Should have made it a bit less biased?


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## CuBeOrDiE (Mar 24, 2010)

is that a good thing?


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 24, 2010)

Musli4brekkies said:


> CuBeOrDiE said:
> 
> 
> > miniGOINGS said:
> ...



I agree, you never answered the question. I'm now going to count how many facepalms you've put into this thread.


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## Escher (Mar 24, 2010)

OH LORD


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## 4Chan (Mar 24, 2010)

This is starting to feel like /b/.
How nostalgic, I haven't been there in a while.~


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## StachuK1992 (Mar 24, 2010)




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## Kirjava (Mar 24, 2010)




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## miniGOINGS (Mar 24, 2010)

Only 12. I'm suprised.


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## Quadrescence (Mar 24, 2010)

Stachuk1992 said:


>


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## koreancuber (Mar 24, 2010)

Mod, could you stop this thread? It's getting out of hand.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 24, 2010)

...but but but but it's off-topic.


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## 4Chan (Mar 24, 2010)

Stachuk1992 said:


>


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## koreancuber (Mar 24, 2010)

but but but it's not on topic! (of the off topic thread)


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## Quadrescence (Mar 24, 2010)

koreancuber said:


> Mod, could you stop this thread? It's getting out of hand.







I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.


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## Kirjava (Mar 24, 2010)

koreancuber said:


> Mod, could you stop this thread? It's getting out of hand.


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## Quadrescence (Mar 24, 2010)

Mononucleosis will be prevented because of the HEALTH CARE REFORM.


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## Quadrescence (Mar 24, 2010)




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## Kenneth (Mar 25, 2010)

In Sweden we have free medical care and had it for a long time. I can assure you that at least 90% of the people is in favour for it (only rich people complains and that's weird because they can afford it..)

And even if we have it I think moste people are sad because of cuttings in the budgets the later years, most of us like the gouverment to spend even more money on it than it actually does.

You Jankees are brain washed, no doubt, how can you say no to something like this? You have no idea what a rottening hole you are living in. Did you look in your back yards.. or on the other side of the rail raoad? SLUM! SLUM! and bloody SLUM!!


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