# 5x5 BLD guide needed!



## modem (Apr 2, 2009)

cant find with speedsolving/com or friendly links posted (

founded 4x4 BLD some guides. it is the same way to solve?

... or will be pleased to hear the advise for 5x5 BLD.

Thnx.

PS Skills: 3x3, 3OP (Macky's method + advanced) sub 3, memo visual+PAO+etc.


----------



## byu (Apr 2, 2009)

Did you search?

http://www.ws.binghamton.edu/fridrich/Richard/BlindfoldRevenge.pdf


----------



## modem (Apr 2, 2009)

didnt

file name content no "5x5" so coud't find by websearch lol

thnx


----------



## shelley (Apr 2, 2009)

There's a couple of very useful tutorials on commutators for big cube BLD in the How-To subforum. You'll have to dig way back though, they're pretty old.


----------



## Sebastien (Apr 2, 2009)

there should be no problem solving a 5x5 Blindfolded if you can solve 3x3 and 4x4 Blindfolded, and let's say if you also got the ability to think a bit on your own ;-)


----------



## modem (Apr 2, 2009)

Sébastien_Auroux said:


> there should be no problem solving a 5x5 Blindfolded if you can solve 3x3 and 4x4 Blindfolded, and let's say if you also got the ability to think a bit on your own ;-)



3x3 only ...

Now thinking about 5x5 %)

I want to jump through 4x4, or must first be acquainted with the methodology for 4x4?


----------



## hippofluff (Apr 2, 2009)

why would you skip 4x4 BLD?


----------



## MatsBergsten (Apr 2, 2009)

modem said:


> Sébastien_Auroux said:
> 
> 
> > there should be no problem solving a 5x5 Blindfolded if you can solve 3x3 and 4x4 Blindfolded, and let's say if you also got the ability to think a bit on your own ;-)
> ...



Not necessarily, but all the moments you need to learn for 4x4BLD you need for 5x5BLD. So it seems simpler and the logical way to do it.

The main new thing about big cubes blind are doing the centers (and I know of no other way than commutators).


----------



## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 2, 2009)

MatsBergsten said:


> modem said:
> 
> 
> > Sébastien_Auroux said:
> ...



U2

blablabla


----------



## modem (Apr 2, 2009)

hippofluff said:


> why would you skip 4x4 BLD?



assume that the decision of the 5x5 is a combination of 3x3 + 4x4. Thus, solving the Professor, I shall possess technique for the 4x4 automatically.

will it work?


----------



## Mike Hughey (Apr 2, 2009)

modem said:


> hippofluff said:
> 
> 
> > why would you skip 4x4 BLD?
> ...



Yes, absolutely it will work. When doing typical blindsolving, a 4x4x4 is just a subset of a 5x5x5. I often console myself on some failed 5x5x5 BLD solves by noticing that, while it was a failed 5x5x5 BLD, it was still a successful 4x4x4 BLD (if all I missed were + centers and/or central edges). If you can solve a 5x5x5 BLD, you need to do nothing extra to know how to solve a 4x4x4 BLD. The biggest difference is that with a 4x4x4 BLD you can reorient the cube to make less work for yourself, where you can't do that with a 5x5x5 BLD (unless you use blah's suggestion, which takes a bit of work to learn to do).


----------



## modem (Apr 2, 2009)

thnx a lot for answers

I will begin to practice according to your hints %)


----------



## Ville Seppänen (Apr 2, 2009)

The first big cube I solved blindfolded was the 5x5x5, simply because I didn't have a 4x4x4. So yes, you can do it first, but it is a lot more to memorise than a 4x4x4 so it can be really frustrating.



trying-to-speedcube... said:


> MatsBergsten said:
> 
> 
> > The main new thing about big cubes blind are doing the centers (and I know of no other way than commutators).
> ...



U2 is/uses commutators.


----------



## DennisStrehlau (Apr 8, 2009)

Well, i think U2 is the best.
My accuracy is pretty good with U2.
If you have any questions, especially about breaking into new cycles on the U-Face, feel free to ask, cause this is quiet tricky.

Greetings...Dennis


----------



## Ellis (Apr 8, 2009)

Are there any guides on U2 or websites? I'm assuming there are probably some here on the forum but I haven't searched yet because U2 is a hard term to search for.


----------



## byu (Apr 8, 2009)

Search for 4x4 bld tutorial here. It's by trying to speedcube


----------



## Ellis (Apr 8, 2009)

byu said:


> Search for 4x4 bld tutorial here. It's by trying to speedcube



I'm only seeing a short explanation as an alternate method with no examples. Am I missing something?


----------



## byu (Apr 8, 2009)

Isn't there an example solve at the end?


----------



## Ellis (Apr 8, 2009)

Ah yes, you're right. I didn't even look because he was just giving it as an alternate, I didn't expect there to be an example. Thanks.


----------



## byu (Apr 8, 2009)

No problem


----------



## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 8, 2009)

DennisStrehlau said:


> Well, i think U2 is the best.
> My accuracy is pretty good with U2.
> If you have any questions, especially about breaking into new cycles on the U-Face, feel free to ask, cause this is quiet tricky.
> 
> Greetings...Dennis


I never break into new cycles in the U-face. If I have a U-sticker in my buffer position, I just pretend it's unsolved and shoot it into another place in the U-face. I do this by 3-cycling. My buffer is Ubr, suppose I want to shoot to Ubl, I'd do: r' u r U r' u' r U r' u r U2 r' u' r U2. (I suppose you could call this breaking into new cycles, but I don't see it like that.)

If anyone has a better alg for this (I have been thinking about some modified A-perm or something like that), please post it here, because what I use seems to be pretty long and therefore slow.

EDIT: r2 b2 r F r' b2 r F' r 

I accidentally didn't include this in my tutorial. I'll update it as soon as possible.


----------



## zaub3rfr4g (Jun 10, 2010)

can someone say me if tehre is a method for the centers of a 5x5 which uses U2 for the pieces which are not part of the "cross" of the center?


----------



## Feryll (Jun 10, 2010)

zaub3rfr4g said:


> can someone say me if tehre is a method for the centers of a 5x5 which uses U2 for the pieces which are not part of the "cross" of the center?



Isn't it the same as 4x4 centers, except you don't get to choose the orientation of the puzzle?


----------



## Sakarie (Jun 10, 2010)

Feryll said:


> zaub3rfr4g said:
> 
> 
> > can someone say me if tehre is a method for the centers of a 5x5 which uses U2 for the pieces which are not part of the "cross" of the center?
> ...



Yeah, you solve the X-centers in the same way on 4x4 and 5x5.


----------



## aronpm (Jun 10, 2010)

Feryll said:


> except you don't get to choose the orientation of the puzzle?



Yes you do.


----------



## Feryll (Jun 10, 2010)

aronpm said:


> Feryll said:
> 
> 
> > except you don't get to choose the orientation of the puzzle?
> ...



Well, I mean on 4x4, there are no fixed centers. If a big group of greens was completed on the left side on 4x4, you could just set that to green. Although I guess you could do it on the 5x5 by using center switching algs.


----------



## Cubepark (Jun 10, 2010)

Sakarie said:


> Feryll said:
> 
> 
> > zaub3rfr4g said:
> ...






For 5x5 BLD I use U2 for 4 center, but for the other 4? For the pieces which are part of the "cross" of the center?


----------



## aronpm (Jun 10, 2010)

Use commutators. While you're doing that, learn commutators or x-centers too


----------



## cmhardw (Jun 10, 2010)

Feryll said:


> Well, I mean on 4x4, there are no fixed centers. If a big group of greens was completed on the left side on 4x4, you could just set that to green. *Although I guess you could do it on the 5x5 by using center switching algs.*



Many of us do exactly that. 

Chris


----------



## Sakarie (Jun 11, 2010)

Cubepark said:


> For 5x5 BLD I use U2 for 4 center, but for the other 4? For the pieces which are part of the "cross" of the center?



You could use m2, doing setups to Ub. Or simply U2.


----------



## Cubepark (Jun 11, 2010)

cmhardw said:


> Feryll said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I mean on 4x4, there are no fixed centers. If a big group of greens was completed on the left side on 4x4, you could just set that to green. *Although I guess you could do it on the 5x5 by using center switching algs.*
> ...


sorry but I cannt understand, you show me some example set-up and anti set-up for the following centers
Fum
Fdm
Fle
Fre

thanks


----------



## cmhardw (Jun 11, 2010)

Cubepark said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > Feryll said:
> ...



I think we're not thinking of the same thing. I don't know what you're referring to with those four centers on the F face. What would you like me to do with them?

What I was referring to was that when starting a 5x5x5 BLD solve I will look around the cube for large blocks of one color. To use the example from the quote before me, let's imagine I find a large block of green. I will spin the cube so that the green block is on the front face, regardless of whether the centralmost center on that face is green or not. I then figure out which of the four remaining *z* spins of the cube are even parity for the centralmost centers, and I use the one that gives me the most "other centers" solved.

I then memorize the cube as normal. However, just before donning the blindfold I look at the cycles of the centralmost centers and see how they have to cycle to return to their original locations. After putting on the blindfold I execute that cycle using 4 move commutators that turn only the *m*, *e*, or *s* layers first before solving anything else.

Hope that helps,
Chris


----------



## Cubepark (Jun 11, 2010)

cmhardw said:


> Cubepark said:
> 
> 
> > cmhardw said:
> ...




Maybe you've right, I use U2 for 4x4 Blind, as far as I know its an easy way to solve the center. the set up are all intuitive
Now, I can use U2 for 5x5 bld, but only for 4 center, I'd liike to find a way as easy as U2 to do the other 4 center, for example, this center 
Fum
Fdm
Fle
Fre

Different peple say that solving 4x4 bld is very difficult, for me no
(I had DNF in the race, but that's another story)
now I'm interested in learning how to solve the 5x5 BLD, I will not be fast, I just want to be able to solve


----------



## Sakarie (Jun 11, 2010)

Cubepark said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > Cubepark said:
> ...



You don't have to put the "e" or "m" when telling which sticker you mean, since there are only one Fu.

Well, if you use Ul as buffer, and shoot to Ur, I guess it would be 

sus' U2 su's' (You would definitely prefer doing y/y')
s'ds U2 s'd's
re2r' U2 re2r'
er'e'r U2 r'ere'

I think those are correct.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Jun 11, 2010)

cmhardw said:


> After putting on the blindfold I execute that cycle using 4 move commutators that turn only the *m*, *e*, or *s* layers first before solving anything else.



(sorry for the quick sidetrack)
I noticed that Chester does that as well. But I got so accustomed to memorizing corners last and solving first that I actually memorize a single image to know what the centers fix is (memorizing it at the beginning), and then I solve corners before I solve middle centers.


----------



## cmhardw (Jun 11, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > After putting on the blindfold I execute that cycle using 4 move commutators that turn only the *m*, *e*, or *s* layers first before solving anything else.
> ...



Hey Mike,

That's neat I didn't think to do that. I guess I am cramming more into my super short term memory just before the solve, rather than utilizing my journeys to memorize the center cycle. I'll have to try your way as well and see which one I like better.

Btw, not that I want to lose it or anything, but when will somebody beat 15:22 for 5x5x5 BLD in competition? I feel like that record has been under the gun for so long, surely *some*one will grab it soon 

Chris


----------



## Mike Hughey (Jun 11, 2010)

cmhardw said:


> Btw, not that I want to lose it or anything, but when will somebody beat 15:22 for 5x5x5 BLD in competition? I feel like that record has been under the gun for so long, surely *some*one will grab it soon



Believe me, we're all working hard at it. I'm really hoping to get it June 26th at the Battle of Lexington. Of course, I'll probably manage it and still come in second place to Chester.  (Kind of like last weekend, when I set the North American Record at multi and came in second place to Chester. And I got my personal best at 3x3x3 BLD and came in second place to Chester... Do you notice a pattern?)

I guess even though it doesn't look like it from the time, you set the bar pretty high. Congratulations on holding that record for so long!!! And I hope you get it back someday after one of us breaks it. With a sub-10.


----------



## Cubepark (Jun 11, 2010)

Sakarie
Well said:


> perfect!
> you could write the set-up for face D? for the other I'll try to get alone
> Thanks a lot


----------



## Sakarie (Jun 11, 2010)

Cubepark said:


> Sakarie said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if you use Ul as buffer, and shoot to Ur, I guess it would be
> ...


I guess that you would do almost the same thing as shooting to D-face och X-centers. Solving Dr would be (r F2 e2 F2 r') U2 (r F2 e2 F2 r'). The other centers would be setups to Dr.

I'm not using this, but I think it might work just as good as U2 on X-centers.


----------



## Cubepark (Jun 12, 2010)

Sakarie said:


> I guess that you would do almost the same thing as shooting to D-face och X-centers. Solving Dr would be (r F2 e2 F2 r') U2 (r F2 e2 F2 r'). The other centers would be setups to Dr.
> 
> I'm not using this, but I think it might work just as good as U2 on X-centers.



Thanks a lot.
now I can start studying
I must learn M2 to solve the central pieces of the edges.


----------



## Cubepark (Jun 12, 2010)

D'OH
I had forgotten that I need algorithms for the face U
two algorithm for 
Uu
Ud
Any suggestions


----------



## Sakarie (Jun 12, 2010)

My suggestion is to not try to solve those at all. It's very rare that you have to.


----------



## Cubepark (Jun 19, 2010)

5x5 bld is becoming a nightmare for me :fp
if it continues this way, I have 50 years when I can solve it
corners
I solve the corners with old pochmann, if I do the same alg parity as in the 4x4, It exchanged two centers, one in U and one in F. I do L2 D2 F2( r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 u2) F2 D2 L2


----------



## Sakarie (Jun 25, 2010)

Use Rr2Ff2U2 r2 U2Ff2Rr2 instead, it works for even cubes.


----------



## Cubepark (Jul 5, 2010)

Done! 8 days ago, I made then other attempts, all DNF. In any case, it helps me as as training for the 4x4 BLD, since the centers are all to be resolved
For parity, I solve the central edges with M2, when I have the parity for the edges, I use an algorithm that Stefan gave me and hence solve the parity of the corners
Thanks a lot for your help Sakarie !!! 
probably I never get to solve in WCA Competition, is very difficult
I'll try at Barcellona next week
With 4x4 instead I made progress, about 4 minutes of memo, I think I'll have to learn r2 edges...after the summer, maybe...I don't know


----------

