# Regulation 3L, and why I don't like it



## Ayce (May 29, 2022)

Yesterday I went to the CubingUSA Northeast Championships. I use a GAN cube for my blindfold solves, which have a logo on the plastic, *on the plastic, not a sticker*. I complete my first solve just fine and DNF my second solves, I wait at the table for the next scramble, and a delegate approaches me, telling me that I can't use the cube because it has a logo on it, I tell him that it isn't a sticker. I see him rubbing the logo with his thumb, so he definitely knew that this He tells me about the regulation and brings it up on his phone. My solves were invalidated and I use my GTS2 for my last solve.

Keep in mind, if I handed you this cube with your eyes closed, you won't be able tell where the logo is. *There is no competitive advantage for using this cube.* I believe the WCA didn't intend for this, and this is just a matter of wording.

3L) A puzzle may have a logo on a colored part. If it does, it must have at most one colored part with a logo.* Exception: For blindfolded events, a puzzle must not have a logo*

My time was nothing stellar, and I wasn't going to make it far into the 3BLD finals anyway. What most pisses me off is that my time was invalidated, instead of telling me to just change it out for my final solve. It wasn't like I was going to win anything.

I don't know why he enforced to this extend. Is there any reason its worded like this?

edited, added an extra point, turns out it’s 3L not 3


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## Imsoosm (May 29, 2022)

Ayce said:


> Yesterday I went to the CubingUSA Northeast Championships. I use a GAN cube for my blindfold solves, which have a logo on the plastic, *on the plastic, not a sticker*. I complete my first solve just fine and DNF my second solves, I wait at the table for the next scramble, and a delegate approaches me, telling me that I can't use the cube because it has a logo on it, I tell him that it isn't a sticker. I see him rubbing the logo with his thumb, so he definitely knew that this He tells me about the regulation and brings it up on his phone. My solves were invalidated and I use my GTS2 for my last solve.
> 
> Keep in mind, if I handed you this cube with your eyes closed, you won't be able tell where the logo is. *There is no competitive advantage for using this cube.* I believe the WCA didn't intend for this, and this is just a matter of wording.
> 
> ...


I asked this question to @abunickabhi a while ago. He said that this rule was enforced because you wouldn't want to give the judges a hard time checking every BLD competitors' cubes to see if the logo is stickered or imprinted. I'm frustrated about this rule too, but we don't want to delay the competition too much.

Also, what's your WCA ID?


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## Ayce (May 29, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> I asked this question to @abunickabhi a while ago. He said that this rule was enforced because you wouldn't want to give the judges a hard time checking every BLD competitors' cubes to see if the logo is stickered or imprinted. I'm frustrated about this rule too, but we don't want to delay the competition too much.


I don't think it will be such a hassle to scrub your finger over the center piece for half a second to check if its a sticker or not, 90% of the time I can eyeball it if its a sticker or not. Scramblers who will have to scramble every cube will easily tell if the cube has a sticker on it or not. It should be a strong recommendation to bring a logoless cube, not a regulation.

2016MARS09


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## Imsoosm (May 29, 2022)

Ayce said:


> I don't think it will be such a hassle to scrub your finger over the center piece for half a second to check if its a sticker or not, 90% of the time I can eyeball it if its a sticker or not. Scramblers who will have to scramble every cube will easily tell if the cube has a sticker on it or not. It should be a strong recommendation to bring a logoless cube, not a regulation.
> 
> 2016MARS09


I agree. It wouldn't make sense, especially if it means I have to buy a new logoless cube 

btw can you put your WCA profile on here? (you can put it in your profile)


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## Ayce (May 29, 2022)

I’ll write an email or put something on the official WCA forum. 

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016MARS09 WCA profile


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## Klaudiusz Szyprocinski (May 29, 2022)

Ayce said:


> What most pisses me off is that my time was invalidated, instead of telling me to just change it out for my final solve. It wasn't like I was going to win anything.



2t) Each competitor must be familiar with and understand the WCA Regulations before the competition.


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## abunickabhi (May 29, 2022)

Ayce said:


> Yesterday I went to the CubingUSA Northeast Championships. I use a GAN cube for my blindfold solves, which have a logo on the plastic, *on the plastic, not a sticker*. I complete my first solve just fine and DNF my second solves, I wait at the table for the next scramble, and a delegate approaches me, telling me that I can't use the cube because it has a logo on it, I tell him that it isn't a sticker. I see him rubbing the logo with his thumb, so he definitely knew that this He tells me about the regulation and brings it up on his phone. My solves were invalidated and I use my GTS2 for my last solve.
> 
> Keep in mind, if I handed you this cube with your eyes closed, you won't be able tell where the logo is. *There is no competitive advantage for using this cube.* I believe the WCA didn't intend for this, and this is just a matter of wording.
> 
> ...


I agree with the 3I WCA reg. Even if the logo is not felt, it should not be used for any blindsolving events.

What I did not like from this entire situation is the delegate approaching you after your second solve, and not during puzzle submission.

The delegate should resolve such matter during puzzle submission.


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## OreKehStrah (May 29, 2022)

Ya that sucks. Especially since they didn’t say anything when you first brought it to the scramblers. However, it is ultimately YOUR fault for not paying attention to the regs. Regardless if you agree or not, if you want to participate in comp, you will be subject to the wca rules.


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## Stock_Fish109 (May 29, 2022)

Ayce said:


> Yesterday I went to the CubingUSA Northeast Championships. I use a GAN cube for my blindfold solves, which have a logo on the plastic, *on the plastic, not a sticker*. I complete my first solve just fine and DNF my second solves, I wait at the table for the next scramble, and a delegate approaches me, telling me that I can't use the cube because it has a logo on it, I tell him that it isn't a sticker. I see him rubbing the logo with his thumb, so he definitely knew that this He tells me about the regulation and brings it up on his phone. My solves were invalidated and I use my GTS2 for my last solve.
> 
> Keep in mind, if I handed you this cube with your eyes closed, you won't be able tell where the logo is. *There is no competitive advantage for using this cube.* I believe the WCA didn't intend for this, and this is just a matter of wording.
> 
> ...


Completely agree! Similar experience, I went to a comp yesterday and I had 2 logos on my pyraminx, and my solves weren't counted and I had to do my average again.


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## xyzzy (May 29, 2022)

Ayce said:


> Is there any reason its worded like this?


Yes.



Ayce said:


> *There is no competitive advantage for using this cube.* I believe the WCA didn't intend for this, and this is just a matter of wording.


This _is_ intended.

Some printed logos can be felt. Some can't. But that's not all! Some printed logos can be felt by only a fraction of cubers – not everyone can feel the logo, but also not everyone can't feel the logo either.

A few years ago, the regulations did allow non-touch-distinguishable logos, but there was some dispute as to whether e.g. Qiyi's printed logos (on their flagship products) could be felt. You don't want to waste time at a competition having the delegates argue with the competitors about whether their cubes should be BLD-legal. What if the competitor thinks they can't feel the logo, but the delegate can? Or what if the delegate can't feel the logo, but they also know from past experience their fingertips are less sensitive and might miss out on actually-touch-distinguishable logos?

That's the main reason why logos are completely banned now. Objective rules are easier to enforce than subjective rules.


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## Ayce (May 30, 2022)

Klaudiusz Szyprocinski said:


> 2t) Each competitor must be familiar with and understand the WCA Regulations before the competition.





OreKehStrah said:


> Ya that sucks. Especially since they didn’t say anything when you first brought it to the scramblers. However, it is ultimately YOUR fault for not paying attention to the regs. Regardless if you agree or not, if you want to participate in comp, you will be subject to the wca rules.


Alright, I see your point. But it isn't in the blindfold section of the regulations, it is in an exception case. I don't think its unreasonable for the WCA to make some note of that in the Blindfold Section of the regulations.


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## DGCubes (May 30, 2022)

Ayce said:


> Alright, I see your point. But it isn't in the blindfold section of the regulations, it is in an exception case. I don't think its unreasonable for the WCA to make some note of that in the Blindfold Section of the regulations.



I support this! Technically all competitors should be familiar with all regulations, but for regulations like 3l that are frequently broken accidentally, some redundancy might help it happen less often.


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## OreKehStrah (May 30, 2022)

Ayce said:


> Alright, I see your point. But it isn't in the blindfold section of the regulations, it is in an exception case. I don't think its unreasonable for the WCA to make some note of that in the Blindfold Section of the regulations.


Agreed. It should be explicitly stated in the bld section.


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## Ayce (May 30, 2022)

Who should I email if I want to make this change?


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## L1meDaBestest (May 30, 2022)

I had a 4BLD solve that was PR by 12 minutes DNFed for this too… What hurt the most is that the delegate agreed that rule was dumb but still had to enforce it. It shouldn’t be a thing in the first place. (I managed to rebeat this stolen solve on my 3rd attempt so there’s a happy ending but it still sucked.)


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## DGCubes (May 30, 2022)

Ayce said:


> Who should I email if I want to make this change?


You can post about it on the WCA Forum in the Regulations category. Make sure to read the rules before posting: https://forum.worldcubeassociation....tions-category-please-read-before-posting/902 Good luck!


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## Ayce (May 30, 2022)

https://forum.worldcubeassociation....egulation-3i-in-the-blindfolded-section/21390 Here it is! (fixed the link)

Turns out it’s 3L not 3i…


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## Tabe (May 31, 2022)

abunickabhi said:


> What I did not like from this entire situation is the delegate approaching you after your second solve, and not during puzzle submission.
> 
> The delegate should resolve such matter during puzzle submission.


I don't think I've ever seen a delegate check all puzzles at any competition I've attended.


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## Ayce (May 31, 2022)

The event had multiple delegates but the one that disqualified me was competing across the room on the “red stage” So I don’t think he was able to DQ the cube during the first few solves. If it an issue I would’ve thought one of the other ones would’ve DQ’ed me.


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