# full 4x4 pll



## palmcubes (Aug 11, 2010)

i was wondering how meany pll cases there are on the 4x4 when you have parity and if it would be practicle to learn them


----------



## M4rQu5 (Aug 11, 2010)

Sigh. Please use the "one answer question thread".
What you have to do is learn full pll for 3x3 (if not already) and if you have parity, it is simply a pll case you can't recognize.
Do parity and then the PLL case.


----------



## vcuber13 (Aug 11, 2010)

wow!
both of you fail at 4x4ing.
there would be too many "pll cases on a 4x4"


----------



## palmcubes (Aug 11, 2010)

M4rQu5 said:


> What you have to do is learn full pll for 3x3 (if not already) and if you have parity, it is simply a pll case you can't recognize.
> Do parity and then the PLL case.


 i mean do parity while you do pll how meany cases


----------



## uberCuber (Aug 11, 2010)

palmcubes said:


> M4rQu5 said:
> 
> 
> > What you have to do is learn full pll for 3x3 (if not already) and if you have parity, it is simply a pll case you can't recognize.
> ...



at the same time? 43 cases


----------



## Edward (Aug 11, 2010)

Oh I see, you want algs that fix parity, while also solving PLL. Have these algs been made yet?


----------



## dabmasta (Aug 11, 2010)

I've seen them somewhere iirc.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2556

Look at Swordsman Kirby's post.


----------



## lilkdub503 (Aug 11, 2010)

Actually, there is a resource for this: http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=4x4x4/paritypll


----------



## riffz (Aug 11, 2010)

There are 22 extra cases.

See here for some algs:

http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=4x4x4/paritypll

EDIT: I just noticed I was ninja'd.


----------



## dabmasta (Aug 12, 2010)

Do people use these? Or does everybody just do parity then pll.


----------



## uberCuber (Aug 12, 2010)

dabmasta said:


> Do people use these? Or does everybody just do parity then pll.



I've never seen someone actively use all 43 algs. usually they just do parity and then pll. Out of the extra 22 usually they would just learn the 4 "pure parity" cases: the two opposite edge swap, the two adjacent edge swap, the two opposite corner swap, and the two adjacent corner swap.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is the case.


----------



## Christopher Mowla (Aug 12, 2010)

As I have shown in my New Two-Corner Swap Algorithm Technique for Big Even Cubes (PLL Parity)thread, the original source for these algorithms is this.

The best pure adjacent corner swap I have made is:
z r2 U2 R' U2 R' U2 R x U2 Rw2 U2 B2 L U2 L' U2 Rw2 U2 z' y' (17f)
and a faster brief diagonal algorithm than Clement's solvers 15f
Rw2 f2 U2 Fw2 U' Rw2 U2 Fw2 U Fw2 R2 U2 F2 Rw2 U
is my 16f: (which is based off of the same idea, so I have to thank Clement for his solver because I analyzed that algorithm and came up with my own by hand, using the same idea).
Rw2 F2 U2 y Rw2 U' Rw2 U D Lw2' U' Lw2' y' r2 U2 F2 Rw2 U

Other than that, several of the other 4X4X4 PLL cases can be made using similar techniques. I have not made fast forms like my adjacent alg for other cases, but I probably could if there was a demand for it. However, I think uberCuber is correct in saying that probably only algorithms for the pure PLL parity cases should be learned, while the rest should be just tackled with PLL parity+ 3X3X3 PLL.


----------



## theace (Aug 12, 2010)

parity +pll prefered


----------



## dimwmuni (Aug 12, 2010)

I think it's an interesting idea to solve both parity and PLL but practically I don't think it will save enough time to be worth it.


----------



## drewsopchak (Aug 12, 2010)

just learn i pure oll and pll parity


----------



## puzzlemaster (Aug 12, 2010)

Here's the equation. Do your PLL parity from any algorithm, and then do the PLL. I could easily write all 21 algs by copying and pasting the PLL parity algorithm in front of all of the PLL algorithms.


----------



## riffz (Aug 12, 2010)

puzzlemaster said:


> Here's the equation. Do your PLL parity from any algorithm, and then do the PLL. I could easily write all 21 algs by copying and pasting the PLL parity algorithm in front of all of the PLL algorithms.



That's not what he's asking.


----------



## puzzlemaster (Aug 12, 2010)

riffz said:


> puzzlemaster said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the equation. Do your PLL parity from any algorithm, and then do the PLL. I could easily write all 21 algs by copying and pasting the PLL parity algorithm in front of all of the PLL algorithms.
> ...



Well PLL parity cannot be fixed without slice moves. So I see no point in attempting to create an extra set of PLL's when you can just do a 6 move algorithm (if you really want to conserve moves) and then doing a PLL.


----------



## Christopher Mowla (Aug 12, 2010)

puzzlemaster said:


> Well PLL parity cannot be fixed without slice moves.


I am not sure what you meant by "slice" moves, but it certainly can be fixed with all wide turns (although longer algorithms are required):

Rw2 U2 Rw2 F2 Rw2 F2 Rw2 F2 U2 Rw2 (10)

or 2-gen

Rw2 U2 Rw' U2 Rw2 U2 Rw2 U2 Rw' U2 Rw2 (11)


----------



## puzzlemaster (Aug 12, 2010)

cmowla said:


> puzzlemaster said:
> 
> 
> > Well PLL parity cannot be fixed without slice moves.
> ...



Sorry I should clarify that. It's obvious that PLL parity cannot be fixed without moving the inner slices on a 4x4. As there is no way around this, why bother learning algorithms in which you have to move inner slices as well as outer slices? Why not simply fix PLL parity with any algorithm? The shortest of these algs if 6 moves so honestly all one has to do is perform that alg and then a PLL. There simply is no need to learn another 20 algorithms.


----------

