# Stefan's M2 R2 blindfold method



## Harris Chan (Jun 3, 2007)

http://stefan-pochmann.info/spocc/blindsolving/M2R2/http://stefan-pochmann.info/spocc/blindsolving/M2R2/

Have a look at it 


-Harris


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## Erik (Jun 3, 2007)

Good now I can put mine online too:
http://erikku.er.funpic.org/rubik/M2.html


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## pjk (Jun 3, 2007)

I was just looking at that, seems interesting.

Erik, I am going to check yours out now. I need to work on BLD now...


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## dolphyfan (Jun 4, 2007)

The tutorial looks interesting. Good Job!!!!!!!! 
Your 4x4BLD link dosent work.


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## dChan (Jun 5, 2007)

Erik your M2 R2 page needs a giant spellcheck ,man, lol. I put it throug hword and spellchecked it before pritning it out. Sorry, I am just an English nut. 

I like this idea. Good job Erik and Pochmann.


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## Erik (Jun 5, 2007)

Hey,
I know my 4x4 doesn't work yet, I'm working on it, i think it'll be online tomorrow.
@ dChan, you are possibly very right, I made the site in only an hour and since English is not my native language...I'll check the spelling tomorrow too. 
And btw, I don't know R2


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## dbeyer (Jun 5, 2007)

dChan, I was going to say the same thing. He doesn't speak English as his native tongue. So don't bash him, his concepts are portrayed in an organized, and understandable way. 

It's not like he said, 

"Joooo, sup guyz?! I got dis killa method to solve the edges in like too secondz! OMG its rox out lowd!"

I talk to Erik a lot through instant messaging, and he makes some mistakes in spelling, and doesn't know certain words, and sometimes we confuse eachother because our vocabulary repitiores don't match, but don't bash his English.

Psst
Check your spelling dChan!!


> I put it throug hword and spellchecked it before pritning it out. Sorry, I am just an English nut.


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## Erik (Jun 5, 2007)

Nah, dChan is right, English not being my native language is not an excuse for making mistakes like this. Its tomorrow now for me so I'll have a look at the spelling and then I'll go to work on the 4x4 (well at least the ideas etc.)


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## dbeyer (Jun 5, 2007)

How can you know that you messed up, if you just don't know though? Seriously?

I read through it and everything was clear and concise, I didn't notice anything attrocious. 

You know it's been proven that if a common word is misspelled but the last and first letters are the same, and all of the letters are there that are supposed to be, the normal reader won't even notice, and muscle memory will unscramble the words!

It works better when reading in context rather than playing the game where you find words in a scramble. 

You know, the way I've always looked at it. I was already yelled at for not using commas and periods correctly!

I keep on reading, waiting to take a breath, and no commas or periods come!

Well ... you shouldn't have to see a comma to take a breath ... sort of stupid. That's why it's an involuntary muscle ... people don't carry bags full of commas and periods to make them breathe ...

[/rant] haha

Later,
Daniel Beyer


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## Erik (Jun 5, 2007)

What I mean is that I should've checked it with spelling checker before putting it online, although mistakes as: 'automaticly -> automatically' are quite bad 
Anyway, it's updated now.

Oh, and about the first and last letter, I know that indeed.


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## tim (Jun 6, 2007)

Thanks Erik for writing this guide. It's really worth reading it .


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## dbeyer (Jun 6, 2007)

Wow, M2 memo is akward ... odd haha


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## Stefan (Jun 6, 2007)

> _Originally posted by dbeyer_@Jun 6 2007, 01:43 PM
> *M2 memo is akward*


Why?


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## Harris Chan (Jun 6, 2007)

I hate it when I have to shoot to M slice...seems kinda confusing because the algos kinda didn't work O.O

Lol I found out about the mistake on LB too...cuz i printed it out the night b4...and noticed that it was wrong...while posting i checked again and it was fixed...lol...Yahoo! forums...


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## blade740 (Jun 6, 2007)

Holy Sune, I think I've got it. Mike Bennett and I just started trying a modified version of this for our edges.

1. I didn't understand Stefan's OR Erik's explanation of M slice edges. I decided just to cycle them. There are two cases:
UF piece in DF (buffer): I'll setup the piece AFTER UF in the cycle (the piece that's in UF at the moment) into UB, then do U2 M' U2 M.
DB piece in DF: setup the next piece to UF and do M' D2 M D2.

2. If you orient edges before permutation, with F/B restricted to half turns, then all the setups are amazingly simple. Because my EO step is extremely fast, I think it's beneficial. Also, learning all those setups and trying to remember each corner's orientation would be tough, and would tax my accuracy.

3. I use T perms for my corners, so my parity fix is in two parts: centers and edges. I first do M E2 M' E2 to fix the centers, then I do B2, H-perm, B2 to swap UF <-> DB and UL <-> UR.

Man, this method is cooler than I first thought. I love it. I got my PB today, on my FIRST solve with M2. Amazing.


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## dbeyer (Jun 7, 2007)

Oh, yea, hey Stephan ... it's just a new buffer, when you've built habits, and have never had to memorize in pairs visually on the 3x3 

It's sorta new -- which is odd ... so that is about the sum of it all.

Hehe, awsome method Stephan!


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## Stefan (Jun 7, 2007)

> _Originally posted by dbeyer_@Jun 7 2007, 01:21 PM
> *it's just a new buffer, when you've built habits, and have never had to memorize in pairs visually on the 3x3
> *


Ah, ok. Yes, of course one needs to get used to it. But besides the different buffer it's pretty much the same for me as my old method, thanks to memorizing in pairs so that I can simply ignore the whole "M-slice temporarily out of place" issue. It's beautiful.

Oh well, there's one difference. I never read FU/BU/BD but always UF/UB/DB because that's where I always shoot, ignoring the actual orientation of the M-edge I'm shooting. Confusing at first, but I got used to that, too.


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## mizzle (Jun 8, 2007)

Ok. I've been playing with this method sighted for the past few days, and I must say, I'm really impressed.

I taught myself BLD last month using the 3 cycles method, so my brain is still having a bit of trouble adjusting. I'm very good at seeing and performing orientation for the corners and edges, as in the standard 3 cycle approach, and think a hybrid system might be useful.

Orienting all edges and corners at the beginning of the solve makes the edge permutation step very, very easy, and cuts down on half of the data you need to memorize.

I'm still having a bit of trouble with a few M slice cases, though. For instance, what if your target edge is UF, and your UF edge needs to go to DF? That one always throws me. I usually fix it by just setting up a 3 cycle on the M slice, and putting one of my unfinished edges at UF. Is this right?

Another thing I'm curious about is memorization. As I'm defecting from the 3 cycle camp, I'm used to seeing things in 3 cycles, and not really remembering pairs. Any tips?

I'm also confused about the best way to remember if my M centers are flipped or not, for certain cycles.

One more idea I had was that sometimes, your DF edge is solved, and normally, you'd just grab another edge and start a new cycle. What if, instead, you used the DB piece as your new buffer position (assuming it's unsolved still)?

Another common problem case I seem to get is when one of my final cycles is UB<->DF and RF<->DR. The fixes I do for this case are always really awkward and long. Any ideas?

As for the R2 portion of the method, I've only just started playing with it, but this is a really cool idea. You're my hero.


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## Erik (Jun 8, 2007)

Are you orienting the edges before solving them with M2?? If you orient them anyway use 3 cykles to solve them. One of the tricks with both of pochmann's systems is that you solve them directly instead of 2 steps. Though personaly I think that preorienting the M-slice might become a bit handy, but it'd be a bit different cause you have to see in the cycle on which sticker of an M cubie you'd normaly shoot to..
As for your UF-DF problem. I don't realy see the problem, you just shoot to UF then your buffer cubie should be solved after that so just start a new cycle after that..
For memorization, well it's just getting used to. Remember in pairs is all I can say  
Why would you have problems with orientation of any cubie at all? You just pick the right sticker/position and remember it, it's not that you memorize each cubie and wheter its orientation is good or wrong. 

Your idea of switching to the DB is very possible but there are some minor difficulties like if that piece is already solved and what if the centers are wrong at that moment, because that would mean the DB position has moved to UF.

'UB<->DF and RF<->DR' I think you mean that both need to be switched. Your memo would look like: UB-FR, DR-FR. Which is are quite short cases actualy.


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## Stefan (Jun 8, 2007)

> _Originally posted by mizzle_@Jun 8 2007, 01:59 AM
> *Orienting all edges and corners at the beginning of the solve makes the edge permutation step very, very easy, and cuts down on half of the data you need to memorize.*


Orienting edges first indeed makes the M2 method a lot of fun and even faster, as you get the nicer half of the algs.

Erik, I see you disagree, but have you tried this?

Orienting corners first might not be such a good idea if you intend to use the R2 method. At least if you use the usual orientation definition, U/D stickers on U/D faces. That gives you some of the harder R2 algs.



> *Another thing I'm curious about is memorization. As I'm defecting from the 3 cycle camp, I'm used to seeing things in 3 cycles, and not really remembering pairs. Any tips?*


(AB)(AC) = (ABC)



> *One more idea I had was that sometimes, your DF edge is solved, and normally, you'd just grab another edge and start a new cycle. What if, instead, you used the DB piece as your new buffer position (assuming it's unsolved still)?*


Possible, but I'm afraid of it. I thought about this before, but quickly gave up. But that doesn't mean it must be bad. It's a very specific situation, so maybe there's a quick way to exploit it and get an advantage?


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## Erik (Jun 8, 2007)

Not realy, but it wouldn't be very efficient? Just my suspection about this, though I have to admit I have not tried this (yet) What is the speed you'd gain with M2 for the edges afterwards? Less moves for the M-slice, but not much for the rest...(maybe 1 per edge you solve)


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## Stefan (Jun 9, 2007)

Yes it doesn't save many moves, but the setups are all in LUR without cube rotations, making the transitions between the steps a bliss. Plus you don't have to clean up remaining flips at the end. Try a few of these scrambles:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/blindf...ube/message/715

Or these, with 11-cycles not including UB:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/blindf...ube/message/754
I just tried a few of these again and got times from 13.5 to 15.0 seconds.

Btw, my favourite pair is UR-BR (RU-RB if you shoot from FD), I looove the transition between them.
R' U R U' M2 U R' U' R U R' U' M2 U R U'
I just did that three times in a row in 6.2 seconds. If you subtract a little for starting stopping my stopwatch, that's one alg every second.


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## Harris Chan (Jun 9, 2007)

Why not just do z' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R z? lol...the rotation might make it slower...


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## Erik (Jun 9, 2007)

Yeah, it is indeed pretty nice to solve them  no x or x', very fluent and fast.


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