# Can a DNF be first place?



## Daniel Lin (May 18, 2016)

If you're the only person competing, and you DNF, are you first place?

I was going to sign up for BASC 9 2016 (its full now,so im not going) and I saw no one registered for 4BLD. So I thought if i signed up I would be guaranteed 1st place (lol). 
Another question:What happens if during 3BLD everybody DNFs? Do they just have another round?


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## guysensei1 (May 18, 2016)

There was a Singapore Open (either 2014 or 2015, too lazy to check) where none of the participants in 5BLD got a success. No prize was given out, although on the WCA website, they all 'podiumed'.


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## 4Chan (May 18, 2016)

It's extremely, extremely unlikely that they'll hold another round if everyone DNFs in BLD.
The only reason I think this might happen is if there's over an hour ahead of schedule/buffer, and a lot of people want another round, which is pretty unlikely according to current BLD statistics. (Less and less comps are holding BLD)


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## Kit Clement (May 18, 2016)

Competitors who podium/win with a disqualified result are not recognized on the winners or podium page on WCA.

As for the second question:

9p) If an event has multiple rounds, then:

9p1) At least 25% of competitors must be eliminated between consecutive rounds of the same event.
9p2) The competitors who advance to the next round must be determined by either a cutoff ranking or a cutoff time in the preceding elimination round.
Since everyone has the same result (DNF) in such a round, the only result of setting a cutoff ranking or time would result in advancing everyone (not allowed by 9p1), or advancing nobody, which means a second round could not occur.


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## Daniel Lin (May 18, 2016)

4Chan said:


> (Less and less comps are holding BLD)


nooooo BLD is my fav events


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## Daniel Lin (May 18, 2016)

Kit Clement said:


> Competitors who podium/win with a disqualified result are not recognized on the winners or podium page on WCA.


Ok I see. Thx. But technically they are winners and made it to the podium, right?


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## mycube (May 18, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> Ok I see. Thx. But technically they are winners and made it to the podium, right?



Technically yes, practically there is no podium.


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## AlphaSheep (May 18, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> Ok I see. Thx. But technically they are winners and made it to the podium, right?


Depends on the organiser. The two times its happened to me with MBLD were handled differently. The first time, everyone DNFed but one person had attempted more cubes. He got the medal, but no prize money was awarded (and rightly so). The second time, everyone had attempted the same number of cubes so the whole event was dropped from the prize giving, with just a passing comment from the announcer that no one had been successful. 

Just keep in mind though that its against regulations to sign up for an event intending to DNF. If you're going to try your best, and there is some realistic chance of a success though, then thats fine.


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## Ranzha (May 19, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> If you're the only person competing, and you DNF, are you first place?
> 
> I was going to sign up for BASC 9 2016 (its full now,so im not going) and I saw no one registered for 4BLD. So I thought if i signed up I would be guaranteed 1st place (lol).
> Another question:What happens if during 3BLD everybody DNFs? Do they just have another round?



Sorry about 6.25  We didn't want a repeat of BASC 5.
I was thinking of doing 4BLD just for the prize tbh


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## Dene (May 19, 2016)

How can you _place_ anywhere if you _don't finish_?


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## Daniel Lin (May 20, 2016)

Dene said:


> How can you _place_ anywhere if you _don't finish_?


If there are 2 people competing and one person DNFs, then that person is listed as 2nd place.


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## Dene (May 20, 2016)

Where are they listed as 2nd place?


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## mycube (May 20, 2016)

Dene said:


> Where are they listed as 2nd place?



e.g. here:
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/ErfurtOpen2015/results/all#e555bf
even if you choose to see only the podiums, Gregor and me are both 2nd place, which also is the last place


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## Dene (May 21, 2016)

Sure but the number 2 there is meaningless; surely you're in agreement with that?


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## mycube (May 21, 2016)

Dene said:


> Sure but the number 2 there is meaningless; surely you're in agreement with that?



Yeah of course  As mentioned earlier, there is no point in calling them 'second on the podium', in this example there is simply only one person on the podium.


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## JustinTimeCuber (Jun 19, 2016)

It could, in theory, happen in a "normal" event like 3x3. If first and second place got averages, third got a DNF average but at least one single, and everyone else got all DNFs.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

What exactly happens when you get a DNF? Is there time added to your solve?


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## DGCubes (Aug 24, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> What exactly happens when you get a DNF? Is there time added to your solve?



No; your solve is completely disqualified. A 5 second DNF and a 1 minute DNF show up as the same thing: a DNF. In averages, if you get more than one DNF, your entire average is also a DNF.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

DGCubes said:


> No; your solve is completely disqualified. A 5 second DNF and a 1 minute DNF show up as the same thing: a DNF. In averages, if you get more than one DNF, your entire average is also a DNF.



Okay, thanks. So, if there's 1 DNF during an average of 5, is your average based on the remaining 4 solves? (I probably should've worded my original post like this.)


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## Matt11111 (Aug 24, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Okay, thanks. So, if there's 1 DNF during an average of 5, is your average based on the remaining 4 solves? (I probably should've worded my original post like this.)


Your DNF will be your worst solve in the average. So your result will be the mean of the three worst solves you completed.


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## turtwig (Aug 24, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Okay, thanks. So, if there's 1 DNF during an average of 5, is your average based on the remaining 4 solves? (I probably should've worded my original post like this.)


Yeah. If you get 1 DNF it'll always count as your worst solve.


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## PlainCuber (Aug 24, 2016)

Matt11111 said:


> Your DNF will be your worst solve in the average. So your result will be the mean of the three worst solves you completed.



Cool. Thanks!


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## shadowslice e (Aug 25, 2016)

PlainCuber said:


> Cool. Thanks!


To clarify, an average of 5 is where you eliminate the fastest solve and the slowest solve in the 5 and average the middle 3.

More generally, an average is where you eliminate the best 5% and worst 5% of solves and take an average across the rest in a simpler and quicker way to getting rid of outliers insteas of having to calculate standard deviation which wouldn't work over 5 solves and stuff.

In contrast, a mean of x (abbreviated as MoX as opposed to AoX) is where no solves are eliminated. This can also be used to easily roughly determine the skew by comparing the average and mean.


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## JustinTimeCuber (Aug 25, 2016)

shadowslice e said:


> To clarify, an average of 5 is where you eliminate the fastest solve and the slowest solve in the 5 and average the middle 3.
> 
> More generally, an average is where you eliminate the best and worst 10% of solves and take an average across the rest in a simpler and quicker way to getting rid of outliers insteas of having to calculate standard deviation which wouldn't work over 5 solves and stuff.
> 
> In contrast, a mean of x (abbreviated as MoX as opposed to AoX) is where no solves are eliminated. This can also be used to easily roughly determine the skew by comparing the average and mean.


Isn't it 5% of solves? I know that when I do averages of 50 on csTimer it eliminates the best and worst 3.


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## shadowslice e (Aug 25, 2016)

JustinTimeCuber said:


> Isn't it 5% of solves? I know that when I do averages of 50 on csTimer it eliminates the best and worst 3.


Oh, sorry, I should have been clearer: I meant top 5% and bottom 5%, cumulitively top and bottom 10%. My fault sorry.


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