# Transform for certain moves?



## bwatkins (Aug 15, 2009)

Hey,

So i was wondering, is there a certain set of moves that can ALWAYS be done in replacement of another to achieve the same result? For example if you wanted to execute the simple algorithm F,R,U,R',U',F' but did not want to execute the "F" move, is there a (sequence) that can ALWAYS be used in its place? I'm not asking as a matter of application, (although it could be useful) but rather just wondering if such transforms exist? 

THANKS


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## dougbenham (Aug 15, 2009)

U2 = R2F2B2L2D2L2B2F2R2

I don't know any similar algs for just U or U'.


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## *LukeMayn* (Aug 15, 2009)

dougbenham said:


> U2 = R2F2B2L2D2L2B2F2R2
> 
> I don't know any similar algs for just U or U'.



WOW, that's quick! I gotta start doing that instead of U2's!
xD


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## LNZ (Aug 15, 2009)

I am impressed that you can replace U2 with a 9 turn alg. But I'll take the easier 1 turn U2 any day.


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## Lucas Garron (Aug 15, 2009)

[M' E2 M: U]


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Aug 15, 2009)

Now, back to the OP, if you don't want to execute an F move, you can't orient edges (unless you want to do a B move). So yes, there are algorithms that do exactly the same, and no, you can't bypass an F move.


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## bwatkins (Aug 15, 2009)

thanks to those of you with constructive answers. I wondered purely out of theory. I am not solely concerned with the F move, it was just a simple example.


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## LNZ (Aug 15, 2009)

I did some random moves using "2" moves and I got the long way to do the L2 move. I guess you can do any 1 turn "2" move in any amount of "2" moves.


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## Innocence (Aug 22, 2009)

Well. Theoretically, you can substitute any move you want by modifying R2F2B2L2D2L2B2F2R2. For F2 it would be R2D2U2L2B2L2U2D2R2. Simply change the perspective for each one. Now all we need to do is find a single turn and an inverted turn algorithm.


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## ben1996123 (Aug 22, 2009)

B' D L B2 U B U' L' B2 U' D'


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## Innocence (Aug 22, 2009)

That's great, except it involves U turns...So essentially it's a palindrome with a U' somewhere in there...


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## Lucas Garron (Aug 22, 2009)

Innocence said:


> Well. Theoretically, you can substitute any move you want by modifying R2F2B2L2D2L2B2F2R2. For F2 it would be R2D2U2L2B2L2U2D2R2. Simply change the perspective for each one. Now all we need to do is find a single turn and an inverted turn algorithm.


Do you read?


Lucas Garron said:


> [M' E2 M: U]





Innocence said:


> That's great, except it involves U turns...So essentially it's a palindrome with a U' somewhere in there...


You mean an "identity"?


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## Innocence (Aug 23, 2009)

About the terminology thing, sorry, I've got english on the brain. The other thing I realized shortly after posting, I just forgot to edit my post. Sorry. :fp


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## DavidWoner (Aug 23, 2009)

Innocence said:


> Well. Theoretically, you can substitute any move you want by modifying R2F2B2L2D2L2B2F2R2. For F2 it would be R2D2U2L2B2L2U2D2R2. Simply change the perspective for each one. Now all we need to do is find a single turn and an inverted turn algorithm.



You are looking for R L F2 B2 L' R' D R L B2 F2 L' R' etc.

R L F2 B2 L' R' (layer swap)

D/D'/D2 (U move)

R L B2 F2 L' R' (swap back)

It works for all moves.


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