# Silly 3x3x3 Speedsolving Challenge



## Mike Hughey (Apr 26, 2010)

It's a competition. 3x3x3 speedsolve.

Make sure you:
a. toss the cube in the air before you begin to scramble, and don't look at the orientation when you catch it (Thanks to Dene for the suggestion)
b. don't look at the cube while you scramble
c. toss the cube in the air before beginning inspection
d. take no more than 15 seconds for inspection

Here are the scrambles (generated from qqTimer):

1. R' B' D R L2 U2
2. U2 D' F2 L' U' B2
3. L R' B D' U L2
4. L' D2 R2 F' U' L'
5. F B' R F' D' F2
6. L' D F L D' F
7. R' U2 L2 B U' L'
8. D U' B' D L' U2
9. F' U' D2 B2 F' U'
10. L2 R D2 F2 D2 B'
11. D' B2 U' D' F2 D
12. D L U D' F2 L2 

My pathetic results:
(11.42), 32.38, 23.88, (34.41), 23.17, 17.24, 17.57, 19.87, 12.38, 25.83, 20.24, 25.29 = 21.78

So I'm curious: how many people here can just see the solutions to 6-move scrambles so quickly? And if not, how affected are you by the scrambles? I never once saw the optimal solution, but I did get to a 6 or 7 move F2L a couple of times (the 11 and 12). I also found that in a couple of cases, I had disastrous solves because I got confused trying to find a more optimal solution. This was better than average for me, but only a couple of seconds better, so I didn't do very well at all at taking advantage of the scrambles. I'm curious how others will do. Am I the only one this bad at this?


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## Dene (Apr 26, 2010)

I see a problem: Why bother tossing it up in the air? We can just put it back in the correct orientation.


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 26, 2010)

Dene said:


> I see a problem: Why bother tossing it up in the air? We can just put it back in the correct orientation.



Oh, good point. But it might take a quarter-second to put it back in the correct orientation (or in whatever orientation you like), which takes away from your inspection time. And that might matter for something like this.


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## miniGOINGS (Apr 26, 2010)

I'll try this right away.


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## Dene (Apr 26, 2010)

The other problem being that it isn't all that hard to remember what you did, and to undo it


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 26, 2010)

Dene said:


> The other problem being that it isn't all that hard to remember what you did, and to undo it



Well, I would say "don't do that", but I guess I can't enforce it. People who do that will obviously "win" this. I normally never pay any attention when I scramble, so I didn't remember what I did. Obviously, as you can see from my results. 

If you want to play fair and this is a problem for you, you could have someone else scramble for you. They're not exactly hard scrambles to apply.


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## Dene (Apr 26, 2010)

I have a better solution: throw the cube up before you scramble, do not look at the orientation. Throw up again after scramble.


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 26, 2010)

Dene said:


> I have a better solution: throw the cube up before you scramble, do not look at the orientation. Throw up again after scramble.



That helps a little. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## cincyaviation (Apr 26, 2010)

i would do this, but my teeth hurt


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## Tim Major (Apr 26, 2010)

Why not randomly rotate looking away, scramble, then randomly rotate before starting inspection. As with all speedsolving.com comps, there is always going to be a way to cheat, but I think randomly rotating without looking is the best approach to stop cheaters (they won't necessarily follow these rules though.)

I'll do it when I get home from school, if the thread is still on the homepage by then.

Edit: ninja'd by Dene, sorry, had longish post planned, so took awhile to post.


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## DaijoCube (Apr 26, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> It's a competition. 3x3x3 speedsolve.
> 
> Make sure you:
> a. toss the cube in the air before you begin to scramble, and don't look at the orientation when you catch it (Thanks to Dene for the suggestion)
> ...



I'm very bad at it XD
Statistics for 04-26-2010 17:56:50

Cubes Solved: 12/12
Number of Pops: 0
Average: 28.62
Standard Deviation: 8.13
Best Time: 11.16
Worst Time: 40.39
Individual Times:
1.	34.14	R' B' D R L2 U2
2.	39.70	U2 D' F2 L' U' B2
3.	33.23	L R' B D' U L2
4.	28.39	L' D2 R2 F' U' L'
5.	20.88	F B' R F' D' F2
6.	24.22	L' D F L D' F
7.	40.39	R' U2 L2 B U' L'
8.	30.44	D U' B' D L' U2
9.	22.33	F' U' D2 B2 F' U'
10.	24.12	L2 R D2 F2 D2 B'
11.	11.16	D' B2 U' D' F2 D
12.	34.38	D L U D' F2 L2


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## Chapuunka (Apr 26, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> i would do this, but my teeth hurt



So you solve with your teeth? That's impressive.


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## StachuK1992 (Apr 26, 2010)

current avg12: 15.18 (σ = 6.70)


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## Kian (Apr 26, 2010)

7.65, (22.03), 15.28, 6.22, 16.30, 8.18, 13.41, 8.43, 12.00, 13.18, (2.26), 16.08

Average- 11.67

The 11th scramble is LOL.

I only tried white and yellow cross for these, even though I only use white cross generally. It was difficult enough to get through yellow cross, but some times it was just so much easier that I couldn't pass it up.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 26, 2010)

I have an idea: Take all your 3x3s (6 or 12 would work best) and scramble them with the different scrambles, then solve them from the beginning again. This should prevent you from memorizing them so easily


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## MTGjumper (Apr 26, 2010)

I saw the solution to numbers 1 and 4; I've only tried up to 4.


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## DaijoCube (Apr 26, 2010)

Kian said:


> 7.65, (22.03), 15.28, 6.22, 16.30, 8.18, 13.41, 8.43, 12.00, 13.18, (2.26), 16.08
> 
> Average- 11.67
> 
> ...



Yep, 11 is amazingly easy hahah


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## Athefre (Apr 26, 2010)

1. 3:14:77
2. 29.60
3. 14.05
4. 26.46
5. 59.46
6. 48.55
7. 34.79
8. 56.58
9. 1:02:30
10. 12.17
11. 12.08
12. 33.72

I timed until I found the "correct" 6 move solution and I didn't do any inspection. I didn't realize I did the whole thing wrong until I was finished. So maybe a new set of scrambles will be posted later and I can do it right next time. I didn't realize we were just trying to "speedsolve" it and not really focus on the optimal solution.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 26, 2010)

I did this a bit differently for fun: I scrambled 6 cubes at a time so that I couldn't remember any of them. Then I took no inspection and set out to solve them all optimally. The 11th one I mucked up and couldn't find my way back to the original scramble so I had to DNF. The rest I did in 6 moves 

7.94
(6.97)
16.75
1:26.19
12.63
1:15.93
46.16
54.92
12.76
20.69
DNF
9.88
= 34.39

EDIT: Apprently the 11th is easy...well I clearly didn't see it somehow!


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## Edam (Apr 26, 2010)

nothing too amazing, pretty happy with number 8, stumbled onto the solution without meaning too. I mostly managed x crosses/ double xcrosses and normal last layers. 2 and 10 were just normal solves, because I failed at seeing anything. 

Average: 12.14
Standard Deviation: 3.15
Best Time: 2.76
Worst Time: 18.23
Individual Times:
1.	11.21
2.	(18.23)
3.	16.87	
4.	9.45	
5.	14.82	
6.	9.05
7.	12.13	
8.	(2.76)	
9.	9.88	
10.	16.22	
11.	7.20	
12.	14.54


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## masterofthebass (Apr 27, 2010)

Average of 12: 11.19

10.45, (36.28+), 9.58, 15.70, 11.98, 6.20, 12.75, 6.06, 3.15, 24.69, (2.02), 11.36

ya i suck...


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## flee135 (Apr 27, 2010)

So I found optimal solutions for all of them except one. I rushed it and ended up not solving it in 6 moves. I'll go back and check that one I guess...

6.08, (DNF), 6.90, 10.24, 14.90, 18.32, 31.98, 6.35, 12.43, 7.82, (3.04), 6.02
Average = 12.10

The 31 second one and that DNF really took a toll on my average. This is pretty fun though!

EDIT: Yeah, I see. The second move in the second scramble did not form any blocks, but created some pseudo-blocks instead. That was very difficult for me to see...


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## qqwref (Apr 27, 2010)

Pretty good.

7.63, 2.88, (2.44), (19.69), 16.97, 10.39, 10.32, 6.82, 2.53, 9.01, 2.44, 3.10 => 7.21

Anything sub4 was optimal solution (not all in inspection). Some of them I planned out and at least one was just luck that the four or so moves I tried ended up being the first four of the solution.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2010)

8.36, 15.48, 6.91, 12.96, 13.75, 8.45, 10.30, 15.36, (1.73,) (20.70), 8.80, 15.40 =11.58
yes, that 1.73 was amazing!


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## Baian Liu (Apr 27, 2010)

18.94, 28.60, (1.70), 4.96, 14.32, 18.89, 14.11, 7.50, (32.49), 9.33, 7.41, 6.32 = 13.04


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## cmhardw (Apr 27, 2010)

This was very fun to do!

12:	00:18.95	x
11:	00:13.89	x
10:	00:19.51	x
9:	00:12.25	x
8:	00:13.37	x
7:	00:11.95	x
6:	00:09.60	x
5:	00:13.78	x
4:	00:03.88	x
3:	00:12.98	x
2:	00:22.62	x
1:	00:12.66	x

I'm kind of disappointed actually, I only saw the optimal solution once (solve #4). I had tons of Xcross solves, but I was hoping that by finding that I would be finding the solution and apparently not. This was very fun, but I didn't like that I knew how many double turns were in the solution.

Mike, in the future you can do this, which is what we used to do to get scrambling algs for short solves.

Take a scrambling algorithm (25 turns) and plug the cube state in cube explorer. Cube explorer will discover a 17-19 move solution usually.

Now do:
(Scramble) -> (Cube explorer solution minus number of turns you want your scrambled state to be)

This will give a long scrambling alg, but it does not let you know any information about the solve when inspecting.

Chris


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 27, 2010)

Some very interesting results so far! I love seeing the sub-2's. Such fun!



cmhardw said:


> Mike, in the future you can do this, which is what we used to do to get scrambling algs for short solves.
> 
> Take a scrambling algorithm (25 turns) and plug the cube state in cube explorer. Cube explorer will discover a 17-19 move solution usually.
> 
> ...



Oh, that's a nice idea! Sorry I didn't think of that the first time - that is much better.


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## Neo63 (Apr 27, 2010)

12.04, 16.96, 33.73[Used M2 LOL], 20.62, 9.10, 12.08, 13.09, 13.70, 13.84, 19.98, 5.50, 14.14 = 14.55

Tried to be CN but did not work at all...only saw optimal solution once


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## Cride5 (Apr 27, 2010)

4.65, 4.71, 5.37, 8.17, 23.10, 24.33, 17.37, (26.84), 21.60, 18.98, (3.30), 20.91 => 14.92

All the sub-10's were trivial to solve after EOLine, the rest were just regular solves really. Any other ZZ'ers fancy trying this? It seems as though EOLine almost solves the whole scramble a lot of the time..


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## Jai (Apr 27, 2010)

8.73, 13.70, 13.10, 11.64, 8.85, 6.04, 7.75, 3.15, 10.32, 8.26, 12.31, 2.55 = 9.01
I think I scrambled that 11th one wrong.


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## JTW2007 (Apr 27, 2010)

Very interesting and quite depressing. This was quite a bit higher than my normal average.

Average: 15.20
Standard Deviation: 2.05
Best Time: 4.38
Worst Time: 25.69+
Individual Times:
1.	16.95	
2.	(25.69+)	
3.	13.92	
4.	13.53	
5.	18.46	
6.	11.55	
7.	16.51	
8.	15.20	
9.	12.40	
10.	15.25	
11.	(4.38)
12.	18.25


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## Sir E Brum (Apr 27, 2010)

Cride5 said:


> 4.65, 4.71, 5.37, 8.17, 23.10, 24.33, 17.37, (26.84), 21.60, 18.98, (3.30), 20.91 => 14.92
> 
> All the sub-10's were trivial to solve after EOLine, the rest were just regular solves really. Any other ZZ'ers fancy trying this? It seems as though EOLine almost solves the whole scramble a lot of the time..



15.32, 23.43, (24.56), 17.93, 7.30, 18.03, 18.40, 20.30, (3.04), 9.36, 6.19, 18.16, 5.43 = 14.45 (σ = 6.29)

I actually looked for blocks for optimal solutions but I will try it with ZZ and see how it goes.


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## iSpinz (Apr 27, 2010)

16.90, 22.54, 20.06, 4.50, 22.95, 10.92, 16.34, 26.49, 4.34, 5.68, 19.09, 15.29 = 13.35

 4, 9, 10


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## ManasijV (Apr 27, 2010)

DNF(2.48), 20.31, 5.88, 15.78, 10.47, 5.05, 8.24, 4.61, 4.66, 14.13, 7.23, 7.19
For the first one I didn't toss the cube after the scramble. (Read the rules later)
9.89


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## MiloD (Apr 27, 2010)

(23.88), (6.22) avg was 11.42

dope


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## Hadley4000 (Apr 27, 2010)

1.	10.69	B2 R' U2 F2 R F U' L2 R2 B R D U2 L U L' U F2 L2 R2 F' L2 R2 B2 R
2.	19.30	F2 R' D2 U L' R D U' L' R D' B' U' L2 U' L2 R U' B2 L' R B L D2 U
3.	(27.36)	D2 U2 B' L2 R2 U2 F L D B' D R D2 U' B' F D2 U B D2 U2 B' F D L2
4.	12.96	F L2 B D' U R' D' U B U' B D F D L2 D2 U F' L' B' D R D2 B F'
5.	6.64	B' R B D R2 D' U B L B' R2 D2 U B F R D2 U' R2 D U' F R2 B F'
6.	13.90	L' R' F' U' B R' B' F2 L' B F2 R B' U L2 U F2 D2 L' R D U' L R2 F'
7.	18.04	L' R2 B R2 D U2 L' R' B' F2 L2 B2 L' R' B' F2 L2 R' B F' L2 R B F R2
8.	4.24	R' B F L2 B L R' U2 F2 U' F2 U2 B F' R U' L2 B2 D' L2 R D B D' R
9.	17.61	L R2 F2 R2 B D' F2 L R' B2 L2 B2 L D F D U L B' F' L' B F' L2 D'
10.	22.27	B F2 L' U' L2 D L R' F D R2 B' F' L' R' B' D B2 U B2 L' D' U L D'
11.	19.50	B2 D2 L' D2 U' F L' R D' U B' F D U' F L2 R' D2 F R F2 R' U' L' R2
12.	(3.44)	L U' L' D U2 B' F L2 B D2 L' D2 L2 D' U' R2 B2 F' D2 U2 L' R' U' L2 R'


Ignore thee scrambles, obviously. 

I found optimal for 2 solves(The 3 and the 4.), had one pop(guess which one), and the rest were just normal solves, with the 6 being an OLL skip.


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## xXzaKerXx (Apr 27, 2010)

17.81, 22.62, 23.44, (27.65), 21.24, 16.11, 20.10, 17.75, 16.88, 23.44 (screwed up the PLL), (8.31), 19.34

Average=19.55, which is 4sec faster than usual. I see many X-crosses


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## plechoss (Apr 27, 2010)

times (reset):
3.69, 14.59, (19.02), 11.70, 5.66, 5.47, 1.80, (1.66), 2.83, 2.20, 1.77, 2.25 = 5.20 
I just tried to plan a triple xcross - it worked  5.66 was with OLL and PLL


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## Yes We Can! (Apr 27, 2010)

9.25, DNF(0.51), 11.35, 14.75, 9.23, 8.44, 15.15, 9.78, 2.67, 12.39, 8.50, 4.16+

Avg12: 10.30
Only 2 optimal solves.


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## TMOY (Apr 27, 2010)

Average: 08.16 seconds
Individual Times: 21.30, 22.84, (03.20), 07.48, 04.17, (26.78), 03.27, 04.83, 03.54, 05.58, 04.38, 04.18
Most scrambles are very nice for CF, lots of edges already solved


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## Zane_C (Apr 27, 2010)

This was bad, me trying to use the optimal solutions slowed me right down and turned many of the times like normal solves. I didn't once find the optimal solution, however the 6.87 came close I think.

18.99, 24.78+, 18.89, (DNF), (6.87), 11.92, 20.21, 17.17, 18.80, 29.96, 19.47, 16.93 = 19.71


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## Branca (Apr 27, 2010)

avg: 13.30
1. 13.59 R' B' D R L2 U2
2. 14.06 U2 D' F2 L' U' B2
3. 14.72 L R' B D' U L2
4. 14.53 L' D2 R2 F' U' L'
5. 8.59 F B' R F' D' F2
6. 9.83 L' D F L D' F
7. (22.03) R' U2 L2 B U' L'
8. 15.53 D U' B' D L' U2
9. 17.90 F' U' D2 B2 F' U'
10. 11.41 L2 R D2 F2 D2 B'
11. (6.22) D' B2 U' D' F2 D
12. 12.86 D L U D' F2 L2


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## Sa967St (Apr 27, 2010)

4.78, 5.11, 3.62, (17.23), 7.95, 8.66, 11.34, 12.21, 9.06, 6.06, 7.21, (2.70)=> 7.60


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## Stefan (Apr 27, 2010)

cmhardw said:


> Now do:
> (Scramble) -> (Cube explorer solution minus number of turns you want your scrambled state to be)
> 
> This will give a long scrambling alg, but it *does not let you know any information about the solve when inspecting.*



It does let you know information even *before* inspecting: The probably optimal solution will be in or biased towards <U,D,L2,R2,F2,B2>. Might be ok if you let it solve it *optimally*, though that takes long and there still might be a bias.

Better:

Take random 25-mover: R' D2 B' R2 D R2 B2 U' D R' U R D L2 U B L R2 B' R2 D2 F B' D2 U'
Let Cube Explorer solve it: L2 D' L2 U' B R U' B' U' L' F R U' L' D' L2 U' F2 D2
Concatenate but leave out the first few moves of the 25-mover scramble:
B2 U' D R' U R D L2 U B L R2 B' R2 D2 F B' D2 U' - L2 D' L2 U' B R U' B' U' L' F R U' L' D' L2 U' F2 D2

Well, this still lets you know that the solution doesn't start with the first scramble side (B here). Might want to leave out one fewer move (just 5, not 6) and modify the next, e.g.:
R' B2 U' D R' U R D L2 U B L R2 B' R2 D2 F B' D2 U' - L2 D' L2 U' B R U' B' U' L' F R U' L' D' L2 U' F2 D2
Of course now you know that the solution *does* start with the first scramble side. Ideally there'd be no connection so the solution should start with the same side as the scramble 1/6 of the time. So use the first way 5/6 of the time and the second way 1/6 of the time. This works for you generating scrambles for others, but to protect everyone including yourself from the knowledge, a program should do it.


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## Carson (Apr 27, 2010)

29.99 31.34 38.13 30.60 26.66 (48.33) 27.83 30.36 36.87 (26.21) 32.79 28.31

Average of 12: 31.29
Session Average: 32.29
Best Rolling Average of 5: 29.60

This is perhaps 2-3 seconds below my current average... and you would think surely that I would have beaten my PB non-lucky single with one of these scrambles, but I was actually 3 seconds away from doing so. That is kind of disheartening really.


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## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Apr 27, 2010)

11.34, 11.51, (12.66), 7.91, 3.42, 2.92, 9.24, 7.54, 9.52, 11.99, (2.42), 2.85 = 7.82
lol


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## robindeun (Apr 27, 2010)

1: 10.43
2: 17.46
3: 2.84 
4: 16.52
5: 2.47 
6: 12.06
7: 15.36
8: 13.96
9: 5.25 :s
10: 11.33
11: 2.66 ?
12: 19.15

avg = 10.79


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## Xishem (Apr 27, 2010)

1. 48.58 - normal solve
2. 29.61 - normal
3. 37.10
4. 58.34
5. 26.05
6. 46.49
7. 1:14.46
8. 1:02.31
9. 31.02
10. 25.29
11. 17.28
12. 48.82

Never found the optimal solution or even close. Certainly not my game  I'm not very good at block building, and that certainly helps in this exercise. All were normal solves, though 11 was especially easy with a 3XCross or something.


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## Ville Seppänen (Apr 27, 2010)

2.50, (10.28), 1.58, 2.33, 9.73, 1.42, 9.31, (1.38), 4.39, 9.16, 1.53, 2.11 = 4.41
Seems like a pretty good average


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## Rinfiyks (Apr 27, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> Better:
> 
> Take random 25-mover: R' D2 B' R2 D R2 B2 U' D R' U R D L2 U B L R2 B' R2 D2 F B' D2 U'
> Let Cube Explorer solve it: L2 D' L2 U' B R U' B' U' L' F R U' L' D' L2 U' F2 D2
> ...



Better still, get someone else to just input the 6 moves


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 27, 2010)

Ville Seppänen said:


> 2.50, (10.28), 1.58, 2.33, 9.73, 1.42, 9.31, (1.38), 4.39, 9.16, 1.53, 2.11 = 4.41
> Seems like a pretty good average



Wow, Ville, that's amazing! So why are you so good at this? Is it because of your BLD inspection practice? It seems like you're disproportionately better at this than most of the other really fast solvers. (Well, I guess plechoss was pretty amazing too!)


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## Toad (Apr 27, 2010)

9.19, 3.65, 17.31, 4.69, 16.16, 6.12, 12.27, 4.09, 3.91, (17.75), (3.47), 17.55 = 9.49

Found quite a few optimals... Couldn't be bothered to try when I didn't lol.


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## riffz (Apr 27, 2010)

Average: 15.16
Standard Deviation: 4.77
Best Time: 4.93
Worst Time: 21.06
Individual Times:
1.	20.94
2.	(21.06)
3.	17.79
4.	6.28
5.	20.96
6.	6.36
7.	10.71
8.	15.03
9.	(4.93)
10.	17.43
11.	17.43
12.	18.64

I usually average ~18s


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## Tim Reynolds (Apr 27, 2010)

7.40, 2.65, 2.52, (1:03.15), 7.69, 6.80, 12.36, (2.31), 2.43, 11.77, 2.36, 2.36 = 5.83

All the 2s are optimal, most of the rest were easy blocks. The 1:03 was a pop...then again, I was already at 26 when I popped =)


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