# The effect of cubing on the mind/intelligence



## goldencuber (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm amazed that I couldn't find discussions on this topic anywhere. I think that learning the Rubik cube definitely positively affects your intelligence. After all, you're learning something new, which supposedly builds up new neural connections in the brain. 

Such as:
memorizing algs (memory), doing the cube BLD (memory, processing speed), getting faster (processing speed, pattern recognition), doing bigger cubes and centers/edges/F2L (intuition, etc...really a lot of things), and thinking of new methods (creativity, logic.) It's definitely something to do when ur bored... obviously better than idling around.

BUT

After a while, cubing doesn't take up as much mental work as it used to (eg i can talk to my friends and cube at the same time while doing homework).
-Algs become memorized by automatic movements such that sometimes you can't recall the algorithm itself.
-There is little intuition involved in F2L, all patterns have been memorized and automated
-Big cubes are done easily, too easily.
-As you're not learning anything really new, it becomes harder to better your times. You're brain has already considered it "mastered", as its difficulty level has dropped significantly, and does not devote as much energy to it (though obviously your times could be better.) To you brain, you are simply repeating an action, and your brain clears itself for learning something else (For example, walking required much brainpower to learn, and practice to master, with its precise coordination required, but now it is a simple task done with little usage of our brain.)

Logically it could have an effect similar to television, as it ends up using so little of your mind. Perhaps too much cubing can make your mind lazy, decreasing intelligence? Or would it be like learning an instrument, where repetition of say, scales, actually benifits the mind?
Any insights/facts that help? 

If you have any idea's feel free to post them


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## ostracod (Mar 11, 2009)

Not to mention all the group theory involved! I've learned some things about group theory by using various methods, such as:

The ZZ method: The solver first places all pieces into a <L,U,R> group, then solves using only those moves. I also did a lot of experimentation to discover how one would solve the "missing link" (where one puts the cube into an <R,U> group, and solves using only 2 gens... the conditioning process has terrible recognition though! It involves finding the permutations of several corners.);

The Human Thistlewaite algorithm: One gradually makes the grouping more strict until the pieces are solved;

And the Heise method: Commutators and conjugates teach useful skills using group theory.

I've also experimented and problem solved a lot with new methods (Supercritical method and Edges First method, which are both slow, and the Tripod method, a decent method with few algs, whose origin is the Fridrus method [credit to qqwref for the modification!!!]). By creating new methods, one learns the process for producing effective solutions.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 11, 2009)

wow, i have absolutely no idea,, i say yes and no at the same time


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## goldencuber (Mar 11, 2009)

Maybe someone experimented on this idea, and took brain scans of a cuber cubing? This sounds like a good science experiment.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 11, 2009)

YESSS i love taking images of peoples brains OHHH PICK ME PICK ME
we should put some solvers and non solvers with a cube in a MRI and see what happens


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## goldencuber (Mar 11, 2009)

yeah I really wonder what part of our brain we use when sub 20's ppl cube...and what part of the brain beginners use when they cube =)

Hint for Erik (or other fast solvers) to go into an MRI with a scrambled cube


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 11, 2009)

yea how true,, get people who do a variety of methods,, petrus, waterman, roux, fridrich,, corners first,, and beginner and see how there brain funcions compared to normal people turning a cube


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## jcuber (Mar 11, 2009)

and what part of the brain sub-10 solvers use, as well as sub-1 bld, because that would use a different part of the brain.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 11, 2009)

yea, i never thought about BLD solvers


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## deco122392 (Mar 11, 2009)

that would be pretty interesting, and to see what parts function differently or moreso then others while useing different methods!!!! wow thatd be very very very interesting to get information on!!! im getting rather excited just thinking about it *zones out*


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## jcuber (Mar 11, 2009)

I just realized, a long time ago something like this was discussed, but I don't think it was ever followed through on.

*waits for someone else to post link because I am too lazy to search*


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 11, 2009)

lol, one day, one day,, we should have a MRI event somewhere!!


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## fanwuq (Mar 11, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgQMqI6uidc


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 11, 2009)

i know this has nothing to do with this but whatever http://http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9001652


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## JLarsen (Mar 11, 2009)

Um, yeah I don't really find myself to be smarter because of the cube really....at all. I mean I have a LOT of information retained in this head, a lot of it I can recall at lightning speed, so maybe, you could say having this in my memory somehow positively affects my ability to learn easier. But who knows.


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## mcciff2112 (Mar 11, 2009)

my original reaction is that it is beneficial for your mind.

when doing bigger cubes (5x5,6x6,7x7) alot of cubing is intuitive, meaning its more in your own judgement than it is on algorithms. this forces you do make decisions on what to do rather than just memorize what to do. i think its a good mental activity to keep your brain in shape (if thats really possible??)


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 11, 2009)

i just taught a kid the basic method like 2 months ago,, his GPA went from 40% to 80%,, 12 to 74 in math  i think it made a difference for him,, my math mark went from 97 to 99.8 soo i think it helped me to!!!


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## JLarsen (Mar 11, 2009)

Meh, I think that's a matter of work ethic. Also the little number next to your name is a really bad indicator of actual intellect in my opinion.


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## miniGOINGS (Mar 11, 2009)

HAHAHAHAH i stopped cubing for 2 months after i taught him,, been waiting for money to buy a cube lol


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## AvGalen (Mar 11, 2009)

> now im at an average of about 58 seconds





> 24 seconds with a basic LBL


That's weird.

Back in the day I had an average of about 1:10. 1 day after getting back into cubing I was already faster than that.

Can anyone summarize what is explained in the MRI stage of the "Play Blindfolded on Coaster on TV" video?


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## (X) (Mar 11, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> > now im at an average of about 58 seconds
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yes I would like to know that aswell...


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## Stefan (Mar 11, 2009)

goldencuber said:


> Hint for Erik (or other fast solvers) to go into an MRI with a scrambled cube


But please please please a Meffert assembly one!


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## brunson (Mar 11, 2009)

I've mentioned in the forum before that studies have shown people who play chess suffer less from Alzheimers. I'm hoping the correlation is causal and cubing will have the same benefit. Then again, I play chess, too.


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## tim (Mar 11, 2009)

My juggling skills didn't improve, my maths skills didn't improve, my programming skills didn't improve, i don't get more points on those "IQ tests". Even my reaction times didn't improve. For me cubing didn't have any positive side effects on my brain.

Oh, wait: I'm faster at memorizing images now. But that's because i've practiced memorizing images. So not a real Rubik's Cube thing.


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## Chuberchuckee (Mar 11, 2009)

Haha, I love how you all assume that we'll get something useful from an MRI. 

No, no. What you'll need is a PET (positron emission tomography) scan. The subject consumes a radioactive isotope which bonds to glucose molecules, or sugar molecules basically. As the different parts of the brain are put to work, the body sends more glucose molecules to that area. As the radioactive molecules attached to the glucose molecules decay, the scanner picks them up. What we get is an image of the energy consumption for different parts of the brain.







If I didn't explain that very clearly, just do a Google search: http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=pet+scan&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


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## cookingfat (Mar 11, 2009)

jcuber said:


> and what part of the brain sub-10 solvers use, as well as sub-1 bld, because that would use a different part of the brain.



I once watched a documentary video of a blindfold cuber get hooked up to a brain monitoring machine and they took readings while he was memorising and also while he solved it under a black cloth. (he couldn't use a blindfold because he had lots of wires stuck to his head) Can anyone find this and post the link, I'm sure the person was a young asian looking male


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## Stefan (Mar 11, 2009)

tim said:


> For me cubing didn't have any positive side effects on my brain.


Well, maybe it didn't improve the potential that was already there, but recently you sounded like it helped you *become aware* of it:



tim said:


> After several sleepless nights i finally understood most of the method and solved my first cube blindfolded. The feeling was so intense that i even cried .
> I think i learnt a lot from that week (not only cubing-wise) and i was even sure, that i can reach everything in life if i want to .


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## Stefan (Mar 11, 2009)

cookingfat said:


> I once watched a documentary video of a blindfold cuber get hooked up to a brain monitoring machine and they took readings while he was memorising and also while he solved it under a black cloth. (he couldn't use a blindfold because he had lots of wires stuck to his head) Can anyone find this and post the link, I'm sure the person was a young asian looking male



Was it the video a bit higher on this very page?


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## cookingfat (Mar 11, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> cookingfat said:
> 
> 
> > I once watched a documentary video of a blindfold cuber get hooked up to a brain monitoring machine and they took readings while he was memorising and also while he solved it under a black cloth. (he couldn't use a blindfold because he had lots of wires stuck to his head) Can anyone find this and post the link, I'm sure the person was a young asian looking male
> ...



haha, yes it was 

doh.


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## hippofluff (Mar 11, 2009)

To think more logically, does anyone have the money or even remotely knows somebady that would be able to help you (us) achieve this goal?


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 11, 2009)

jcuber said:


> I just realized, a long time ago something like this was discussed, but I don't think it was ever followed through on.
> 
> *waits for someone else to post link because I am too lazy to search*



I always like searching for things like this. Here is the thread I thought of:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7020


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## goldencuber (Mar 11, 2009)

Yeah that's related to this, it's sad that it was never followed up on. 

Oddly enough no one's discussed the possibility of the cube negatively affecting your mind, that is, the 2nd part of my original post.


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## F.P. (Mar 11, 2009)

Doesn't have any effect on intelligence.


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## Stefan (Mar 11, 2009)

F.P. said:


> Doesn't have any effect on intelligence.


Proof please.


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## tim (Mar 11, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> F.P. said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't have any effect on intelligence.
> ...





StefanPochmann said:


> WaffleCake said:
> 
> 
> > Santa was thought up specifically as a lie
> ...



You can't say anything else, can you?


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## goldencuber (Mar 12, 2009)

tim said:


> StefanPochmann said:
> 
> 
> > F.P. said:
> ...



I find that funny. 

Anyway cubing definitely increases your "cognitive reserve" when you learn to do the cube (More connections are formed in your brain. Don't get it? use google.com) I find doing the cube way easier than i did when i first solved it, which proves that my brain has adapted itself for cubing. Adaptation=higher cognitive reserve=better for brain

But, after as you get faster, you're brain begins adapting less and less. In fact, the easier it is to do something, the less brainpower your using. My essential question is this, would the adaptation your brain develops to get from say...avg of 17 to avg of 15 really be (brain health wise) worth the hours of practice? Likely your brain adapts less per minute of solving time as you get faster. (Like watching television, your brain's working, but not enough...so you end up w/ Alzheimer's)


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## F.P. (Mar 12, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> F.P. said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't have any effect on intelligence.
> ...



By practicing to solve the cube you are practising to solve the cube. 
And after one has solved the cube a few times, the brain gets bored eventually anyway.

You can improve your memory by practising certain techniques but that doesn't have any effect on your natural memory ability.
They haven't even found a way yet to successfully improve the working memory (even though some scientists claim they actually did).

And they also haven't found a way to improve intelligence; and solving the cube doesn't help as well...no matter if you do it two-handed, one-handed, blindfolded, whatever.

Someone being able to solve the cube and suddenly getting higher math grades doesn't really have anything to do with this person being able to solve the cube but rather with the higher interest in maths (probably motivated by the cube).


@goldencuber:

I really wouldn't use google to gather information about this topic...because that's why people end up with biased information like you - I guess you didn't read that those "more connections" can also have the complete opposite effect of what you call "cognitive reserve" and can actually cause information to be forwarded slower.

And that cubing is easier for you is because you have practised it (for hours) and that didn't improve your cognitive abilities on other areas.

I can't believe that people really think that if they solve the endless amount of puzzles/brain teasers which are available nowaydays, they actually improve anything besides the ability to solve those certain puzzles...hell, everyone should be a genius.


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## badmephisto (Mar 12, 2009)

I agree with F.P. on this
Intelligence is a higher level ability, and cubing is a specific activity that merely requires some dexterity and a little bit of memorization (and you could agree spatial ability etc. or whatever). But I don't see why cubing should increase anyone's overall intelligence. Your neural pathways will adjust to allow you to solve it faster by more quickly recognizing the specific patterns, etc., and you get the muscle memory to execute specific moves quicker, but none of this probably has anything to do with information processing at large.

The most direct consequence I think the cube may have on your intelligence is ironically its placebo effect if you think this is true. Spending more time in general solving various problems (and Not just cube problems), either because you like it, or because you think you like it, or because you think you are good at it, could potentially make you better in general. Its hard to say.


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## Swoncen (Mar 12, 2009)

F.P. said:


> Someone being able to solve the cube and suddenly getting higher math grades doesn't really have anything to do with this person being able to solve the cube but rather with the higher interest in maths (probably motivated by the cube).



That's what I thought. Also if one thinks that he/she is now more intelligent he/she is more motivated to learn or study because he/she is proud of that. I don't have a proof but I observed some of these things.


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## goldencuber (Mar 12, 2009)

F.P. said:


> By practicing to solve the cube you are practising to solve the cube.
> And after one has solved the cube a few times, the brain gets bored eventually anyway.


Yes, that is a FP'd version of my initial question (which no one's talked about, by the way.)



F.P. said:


> You can improve your memory by practising certain techniques but that doesn't have any effect on your natural memory ability.
> They haven't even found a way yet to successfully improve the working memory (even though some scientists claim they actually did).


no effect? The brain is not a static object, it's constantly changing. Define what you mean by "natural ability"



F.P. said:


> And they also haven't found a way to improve intelligence; and solving the cube doesn't help as well...no matter if you do it two-handed, one-handed, blindfolded, whatever.
> 
> Someone being able to solve the cube and suddenly getting higher math grades doesn't really have anything to do with this person being able to solve the cube but rather with the higher interest in maths (probably motivated by the cube).
> 
> ...


Intelligence is a relative term, and you didn't define exactly what you meant by intellegence (IQ tests, brain size, what?.) But... check out these links 
http://www3.ac-clermont.fr/pedago/anglaislp/ressources/sujets/bep_2002_4.htm (taxi drivers and better memory)

http://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/News/...tion.aspx?articleID=8071&categoryID=news-type
(mentions how playing the violin, which is closely associated with fingers...hint hint, develops sections of the brain more. Also, if gives an introduction of how the brain functions, which would be helpful for some to read)

It's quite true too many neural connections can cause lags in neuro response time. However, the brain is constantly changing these connections, destroying some, adding others, etc. Cubing or other activities do not create too many connections. Brain cell's actually decrease in number as you grow older, no matter how much you learn.



F.P. said:


> I can't believe that people really think that if they solve the endless amount of puzzles/brain teasers which are available nowaydays, they actually improve anything besides the ability to solve those certain puzzles...hell, everyone should be a genius.



Of course, people who read much or do crossword puzzles just accidentally score high on reading sections of SAT's, and people who waste their time on puzzles/brain teasers and use their brain often just happen to have healthier brains more resistant to degeneration too.



F.P. said:


> And that cubing is easier for you is because you have practised it (for hours) and that didn't improve your cognitive abilities on other areas.



By practicing your brain establishes new and more efficient neural connections. That's why it's easier. Which goes back to cognitive reserve. And you spelled practice "practised"


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## Johannes91 (Mar 12, 2009)

goldencuber said:


> And you spelled practice "practised"


http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/practice.html


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## F.P. (Mar 12, 2009)

goldencuber said:


> It seems obvious that you don't know too much about the brain.




Oh yeah, kid. You must be right then. Good luck with your research.

And by the way: I spelled practised practised because it's correct.


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## qqwref (Mar 12, 2009)

F.P. said:


> And by the way: I spelled practised practised because it's correct.



Not really, you spelled it "practised" because you grew up in a country/time that taught UK English. If you'd learned US English you would spell it "practice". But neither is correct or incorrect on an absolute scale, rather they are just different ways depending on where you are from.


EDIT: My perspective on this topic: I don't think cubing increases intelligence any more than math increases intelligence, although of course it does make you better at tasks related to cubing (such as memorizing things if you do lots of BLD). What's interesting, though, is that cubing is one of those things that I think more intelligent people are more likely to get interested in, so if you look at a cubing community you'll probably find more smart people than in a community about something random. It's the same thing for math, math communities are composed of very smart people, and that is not because math practice makes you smarter, but because smart people are more likely to practice math.


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## F.P. (Mar 12, 2009)

"I spelled practised practised because it's correct" doesn't imply that spelling it "practiced" is incorrect.


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## tim (Mar 12, 2009)

qqwref said:


> It's the same thing for math, math communities are composed of very smart people, and that is not because math practice makes you smarter, but because smart people are more likely to practice math.



Nicely summarized .


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## cmhardw (Mar 13, 2009)

I feel that cubing has definitely changed my brain, in at least some ways. I won't argue if those ways are better or worse than before, but simply changed. One example is that I have experienced "cube high" a number of times.

http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/cubehigh.html

It's an extremely euphoric feeling, as if my brain is a well oiled machine and I can, what feels to me, effortlessly solve and achieve fast times (subjectively from my own viewpoint, obviously). I had a friend say that this is possibly an overflow of chemicals in the brain, such as dopamine or some other neuro-receptor used in cubing that is generated at higher levels for some reason. I have no idea if that idea is even reasonable or potentially accurate, but it sounds interesting.

This is not really on the same wavelength as this thread, but I guess it is still on topic. Has anyone else gotten "cube high"? Also, has anyone here gotten "runner's high", a much more socially acceptable and recognized "natural high" than I'm sure everything thinks cube high is?

Chris


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## teller (Mar 13, 2009)

Cubing is not a net-zero activity. It cross-pollinates with everything else, probably in ways too subtle to notice.


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## qqwref (Mar 13, 2009)

teller said:


> Cubing is not a net-zero activity. It cross-pollinates with everything else, probably in ways too subtle to notice.



What exactly do you mean by that?


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## F.P. (Mar 13, 2009)

@qqwref:

Yeah, that's it. Maths, physics, cubing, playing chess etc. doesn't improve anyones intelligence. But people with a higher intellectual potential are more likely to be interested in those topics.

@cmhardw:

Of course cubing changes the brain...just like everything you do; but it doesn't have any effect on your intelligence.
I never heard of "cube high" before but I read the content of your link and your experience just sounds to me like you have synchronized your cerebral hemispheres and/or lowered your "brain-frequency"/put your brain to the alpha-phase (I doubt that those are the correct terms in english).

That's a good thing to do before studying and if you want to experience this feeling more often then you can easily achieve it by practicing the techniques to synchronize the hemispheres and lower the frequencies in your brain because our brain more receptive in the phase right before we fell asleep (that's the alpaphase); in this phase, the brain-frequency is way lower than in the betaphase, which is the usual phase when we are awake.

I'm sure there are some good books on english with the the techniques to achieve this. The more often you do it and practice it, the longer the "feeling" will persist.


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## mazei (Mar 13, 2009)

From recent posts here what it seems is that(from my point of view but as usual, it might be wrongly looked at) some people are born smart while some aren't. Although that is the case for some people but I think generally that isn't the case. I can't really explain why I think that way but its my opinion and I'm sure everyone can voice out their opinions can't they?


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## qqwref (Mar 13, 2009)

I think some people are born smarter than others, but as with everything it's a continuum, not just "this guy's smart, this guy isn't". On the other hand being smart isn't everything - everyone has a lot of potential and it is up to each person to take advantage of that. If you spent as much time as you need to really understand cube theory and to do a bit of research on common methods and techniques for creating algorithms, you'll already have a huge advantage over a very smart person who doesn't know any of that stuff, and (no matter how smart you are) you'll be able to make good posts and really contribute to discussions in a way that most other people won't. The smartest people might have an advantage in how fast they can learn things, but that doesn't mean it is over anyone's head. No matter what facet of cubing people are interested in, motivation and research is worth a lot more than intelligence.


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## goldencuber (Mar 14, 2009)

Yeah definately ppl who practice more will be better than genius' who don't


F.P. said:


> @qqwref:
> 
> Yeah, that's it. Maths, physics, cubing, playing chess etc. doesn't improve anyones intelligence. But people with a higher intellectual potential are more likely to be interested in those topics.
> 
> ...


sry for the previous post, I enjoy debate, and you just disagree with me on many things. Do you define intelligence as the ability for us to learn, as encoded in our DNA or what?



F.P. said:


> @qqwref:
> That's a good thing to do before studying and if you want to experience this feeling more often then you can easily achieve it by practicing the techniques to synchronize the hemispheres and lower the frequencies in your brain because our brain more receptive in the phase right before we fell asleep (that's the alpaphase); in this phase, the brain-frequency is way lower than in the betaphase, which is the usual phase when we are awake.
> 
> I'm sure there are some good books on english with the the techniques to achieve this. The more often you do it and practice it, the longer the "feeling" will persist.


Oh? interesting idea, elaborate please


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## Chris Brown (Mar 24, 2009)

cross = spatial awareness ie: ecology of movement
f2l = a matching game that we play over and over again
oll and pll = pattern recognition and muscle movement memorization

We're at least exercising our minds.

Also.. you have the "I can solve the rubik's cube" factor. Knowing that you can learn to solve the cube can shatter many mental road blocks that one might have when learning a new skill.

Funny 1st post huh.


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## tecnikal (Mar 24, 2009)

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10662


small explanation of the brain waves and states:

Cortextual


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## Jokerman5656 (Mar 30, 2009)

if you take a cube into an MRI wouldn't the magnet from the machine explode your cube?


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## Stefan (Mar 30, 2009)

jokerman5656 said:


> if you take a cube into an MRI wouldn't the magnet from the machine explode your cube?



Ah, I'm not the only one...



StefanPochmann said:


> goldencuber said:
> 
> 
> > Hint for Erik (or other fast solvers) to go into an MRI with a scrambled cube
> ...


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## Cloud_9ine (Mar 31, 2009)

Yea but sticking to the motivation vs. smart argument, one's mental capacity (IQ for instance) is generally fixed. However intelligence is on a sliding scale the same way motivation is and is in no way truly dependent on one's mental ability. 

Back to cubing though, just because one doesn't have a intuitive advantage doesn't mean they have a cubing disadvantage, for instance while one can't do much stuff intuitively, they might be able to commit things to muscle memory easily. 

As for the effect though, cubing helps at first in that its another mental exercise that involves you forming ideas and organizing objects mentally, but once your mind considers it "mastered" (about the time that your time progression slows to a near halt), the effects that you got remain but may slowly disappear. So in general it can help with logic.

But this can also depend on your method.


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## goldencuber (Mar 31, 2009)

goldencuber said:


> But, after as you get faster, you're brain begins adapting less and less. In fact, the easier it is to do something, the less brainpower your using. My essential question is this, would the adaptation your brain develops to get from say...avg of 17 to avg of 15 really be (brain health wise) worth the hours of practice? Likely your brain adapts less per minute of solving time as you get faster. (Like watching television, your brain's working, but not enough...so you end up w/ Alzheimer's)





Cloud_9ine said:


> As for the effect though, cubing helps at first in that its another mental exercise that involves you forming ideas and organizing objects mentally, but once your mind considers it "mastered" (about the time that your time progression slows to a near halt), the effects that you got remain but may slowly disappear. So in general it can help with logic.
> 
> But this can also depend on your method.


I find that most people w/ low avg's can cube while talking or just daydreaming, it doesn't take much effort. In fact, I sometimes solve it without realizing it. When i practice, I occasionally daydream at the same time. That doesn't really help my times. It's actually similar to practicing an instrument, only with an instrument you get new songs to play every once in a while. 

I found that my improvement slowed down after I finished learning the Fridrich algs, so maybe doing new stuff would be beneficial, so the brain wouldn't consider the cube "mastered".

..This sounds like a new thread to me


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## blindfold cube (Apr 2, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgQMqI6uidc



too bad its in another language.


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