# Events to remove



## Kirjava (Sep 19, 2010)

Thought this would be a nice contrast to the other thread.

Feet, anyone?


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## waffle=ijm (Sep 19, 2010)

Feet for sure.


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## Chapuunka (Sep 19, 2010)

3x3 Speed.


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## Kirjava (Sep 19, 2010)

Chapuunka said:


> 3x3 Speed.


 
ahahahaha you're so funny I didn't expect this


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## oprah62 (Sep 19, 2010)

2-7 because people who are good at that event and practice have an advantage. The only true event is magic.


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## Andrew Ricci (Sep 19, 2010)

Magic

The most pointless event of all.


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## qqwref (Sep 19, 2010)

Feet.

Honorable mention goes to 4x4BLD and 5x5BLD for being spectacularly unpopular (going by number of non-DNF results per competition one of them is held at).


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## Johan444 (Sep 19, 2010)

Clock
Magic
Master Magic
Feet


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## StachuK1992 (Sep 19, 2010)

Feet.

Also, replace regular magic with a cooler version of magic solving.


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## qqwref (Sep 19, 2010)

Magic should be replaced with some kind of simple magic trick such as linking metal rings. Master magic should be replaced by a more complex illusion such as an underwater escape.

Also, 6x6 and 7x7 take too long. We should just have three separate 5x5 events.


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## Shortey (Sep 19, 2010)

Johan444 said:


> *Clock*
> Magic
> Master Magic
> Feet


 
I hate being the only one who can scramble Clock who isn't competing. So, i vote for Clock aswell.


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## Daniel Wu (Sep 19, 2010)

Feet. Magic. Pretty much.


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## Siraj A. (Sep 19, 2010)

No Feet, no Magix. Needs more rounds of pyraminx.


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## r_517 (Sep 19, 2010)

feet


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## Forte (Sep 19, 2010)

I think they're all pretty cool


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## Daniel Wu (Sep 19, 2010)

Siraj A. said:


> No Feet, no Magix. Needs more rounds of pyraminx.


 Yes please. More pyraminx, less feet. Sounds good to me.


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## Mr.Toad (Sep 19, 2010)

Magic and Master Magic, definitely. Also Clock. And not adding bigger cubes.

If we remove Feet maybe we should remove OH too (they are both ways of doing speedsolving, but slower).


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## Andrew Ricci (Sep 19, 2010)

Mr.Toad said:


> Magic and Master Magic, definitely. Also Clock. And not adding bigger cubes.
> 
> If we remove Feet maybe we should remove OH too (they are both ways of doing speedsolving, but slower).


 
Yes, but OH is very popular and not as slow.


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## mcciff2112 (Sep 19, 2010)

qqwref said:


> Master magic should be replaced by a more complex illusion such as an underwater escape.


 
I couldn't agree with this more. Nothing is more exciting than a life-threatening illusion puzzle.


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## Thompson (Sep 19, 2010)

Magic.


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## Johan444 (Sep 19, 2010)

Shortey said:


> I hate being the only one who can scramble Clock who isn't competing. So, i vote for Clock aswell.


 
You should unlearn that, Mort... Shortey? Oo


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## Ashmnafa (Sep 19, 2010)

Feet. Magic = <3


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## Cyrus C. (Sep 19, 2010)

Mr.Toad said:


> If we remove Feet maybe we should remove OH too (they are both ways of doing speedsolving, but slower).


 OH is much quicker. OH is sanitary. OH is popular.


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## Owen (Sep 19, 2010)

I like Magic.

Get rid of 3x3 single. Only 3x3 avg. is cool.


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## qqwref (Sep 19, 2010)

3x3 single isn't an event. Also, OH isn't unsanitary, slow, boring, and unpopular (feet is).


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## will6680 (Sep 19, 2010)

feet. who wants a smelly cube?!


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## da25centz (Sep 19, 2010)

-Pyraminx
-2x2

+Feet BLD
+BigCubes Feet
+BigCubes Feet BLD
+ Square-1 Feet


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 19, 2010)

We should get rid of anything that's not 3x3. Keep BLD, but get rid of all its variations (Multi, 4BLD, 5BLD)

Oh, and ESPECIALLY Magic/Master Magic.

I think we should also get rid of anyone who wants to get rid of Feet.

On a serious note, why is this thread productive at all when you know you're just gonna get a lot of people saying stuff like, "Feet." "Magic". "Feet + Magic". "Skewb. Yes I want Skewb added just so it can get removed". You're just bashing on people's favorite events then, aren't you?


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## Diniz (Sep 19, 2010)

Magic, Master Magic, Clock, Feet, 4x4 Bld and 5x5 Bld


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## kinch2002 (Sep 19, 2010)

I find feet solving quite fun. I do a few solves a week usually for the weekly comp, and it is a great event to do when your hands are too cold or they just aren't cubing properly. As for competitions, feet generally only takes place in 2/3 day comps where every other event is there. It's not as if other events are being scrapped for it so I don't think it's in the way of anything. If people find it fun (which I do) then we should let them do it. Of all the events I did in Swedish Open last weekend I enjoyed competing in feet the most. Unsanitary...now that might be a small problem. I suggest generally you should use your own timer/find someone willing to lend you one. My feet don't smell so nobody should have a problem with me solving


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## Dene (Sep 19, 2010)

2x2 has to go.


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## Sakarie (Sep 19, 2010)

I think magic is silly, and I don't know why they're a part of the Rubik's products. But my impression is that it's a quick event and seldom makes trouble in the administration. On Swedish Open we had 6x6 and 7x7 as a side event. It was kind of "Find a friend that scrambles for you, and do it when you have the time." Since it was not the biggest competition it worked fine.


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## irontwig (Sep 19, 2010)

Sakarie said:


> I think magic is silly, and I don't know why they're a part of the Rubik's products.


 
There was this guy called Ernö who came up with them...


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## bluecloe45 (Sep 19, 2010)

nooooooooooo not 2x2!!!!!!!!!!! OMJiggle no


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## Zubon (Sep 19, 2010)

Magic - Just don't understand how a single memorized solution can be counted as "solving" a puzzle. It would be better if they actually scrambled the magic to a random state and the contestants had to solve it from there.


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## ben1996123 (Sep 19, 2010)

None.


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Sep 19, 2010)

Feet and Big Cubes BLD.


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## JustinJ (Sep 19, 2010)

I think that everyone in favour of getting rid of magic should consider that it provides an event for younger siblings/cousins/children/whatever who may have come along with someone else, and being able to compete in something makes the day much more fun for them.


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## maggot (Sep 19, 2010)

2x2 can stay. 

to previous post about "lets get rid of these event so we can add more event that people are going to want removed", well, these events people are not liking seriously should be removed. magic master magic (im not going to say clock because it does have its skill) feet (stupid)... they really need to be removed imho. to add new events will also spark interest from people and have our community grow (it will regardless, but it will be more diverse) there are just so many benefits. 

i think to remove magic would be a very good thing if you think about it. a lot of people can solve the magic, since it requires a very small amount of time invested to become good at, and so many people compete in this event? (maybe im wrong) and it would give more time for events that people would enjoy watching, the ones of skill. not to mention the ones that people come to compete in. the magic is a fun puzzle. so is rubik 360, rubik snake, etc. etc.

i think that the competition would become more fun if it werent "who can solve these Rubik brand puzzles the fastest" and make it more "speedsolving the puzzles that require skill and have general intrest of the community that attend the events (regardless if they have an affiliation to Rubik brand)" most likely less than 5% of the actual hardware used at a competition is made by the Rubik brand anyway. we all buy our stuff from china. face it.

im not sure how much the companies that produce Rubik brand puzzles give to the speedsolving community to sponsor events, but if it is marginal, our decisions to change the puzzle to compete with should not be even questioned by the WCA. Also, just because we decide to not have these events at a competition, does not mean that they have to make these puzzle completely obsolete from competitions, there can be room for these event, but there has to be a significant interest. but these puzzles should only be considered if the new puzzles and event have there allocated times. just like there are not many chance for the WR for feet to be broken (not like many people actually practice feet seriously), why should there be many chance for magic? its just stupid. give a chance for these new puzzle, because a lot of community agrees that some of the event are a drag. spice it up!

as far as big puzzles, i think that they have a lot of room to grow, although they do not have as much interest (because of the time investment), they still have their place imho.

i also agree with little kids being able to compete, as it is cute and fun to watch. however, honestly, little kid could easily compete in other events as well, they would just have to learn. 2x2? bouncy castle? a lot more kids would enjoy themselves with a huge bouncy castle at events, more so than competing lmao.


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## qqwref (Sep 19, 2010)

Zubon said:


> Magic - Just don't understand how a single memorized solution can be counted as "solving" a puzzle. It would be better if they *accidentally* scrambled the magic to a random state and the contestants had to solve it from there.


 
I like this idea. Get a bunch of noncubers to play with it or something. "Can you fix it?" Accidental scrambles are always harder to fix than deliberate ones.


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## maggot (Sep 20, 2010)

qqwref said:


> I like this idea. Get a bunch of noncubers to play with it or something. "Can you fix it?" Accidental scrambles are always harder to fix than deliberate ones.


 
this is also how a lot of magics become broken. speedsolving random states is asking for broken strings?


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## syuhei222 (Sep 20, 2010)

Clock. 
And I hope 3x3x3 team solve is added to Official.


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## MichaelErskine (Sep 20, 2010)

Scrap them all - let's go skate


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## KboyForeverB (Sep 20, 2010)

theanonymouscuber said:


> Magic
> 
> The most pointless event of all.


 
That offends those who are good at it, and it an easy opportunity to get into cubing


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## bigbee99 (Sep 20, 2010)

I think all of the events that were added were added for a reason.


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## BigSams (Sep 20, 2010)

bigbee99 said:


> I think all of the events that were added were added for a reason.


 
Mhm just like these laws http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/alabama . The events may have felt relevant 7 years ago but now clearly a majority of the community is rejecting magic, master magic, clock, feet. We should just take a vote and get it over with. (Assuming the WCA will accept the decision made by the community)


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 20, 2010)

KboyForeverB said:


> That offends those who are good at it.



Can't you say that about all events that people suggest should be removed? That's why I think this thread is pointless. Most people just say:

"Feet = stupid", or "Magic = pointless".

Not only is that offensive to people who put time/effort into being good at the event but it's a complete waste of a post as it contributes nothing. You might as well "+1".


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## Kirjava (Sep 20, 2010)

If people are offended by legitimate complaints (and I don't mean simply calling the events stupid (although you could argue that this is a legit complaint)) about events, they are being oversensitive.

If feet was suggested as a new event these days, it would not be taken seriously.


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## Bryan (Sep 20, 2010)

maggot said:


> i think to remove magic would be a very good thing if you think about it. ... (maybe im wrong) and it would give more time for events


You can do a full round of Magic in maybe 15-20 minutes. I usually do it during lunch and people have to take a minute of their time to complete their average of 5. This doesn't really buy you much time for other things.



maggot said:


> im not sure how much the companies that produce Rubik brand puzzles give to the speedsolving community to sponsor events, but if it is marginal, our decisions to change the puzzle to compete with should not be even questioned by the WCA. Also, just because we decide to not have these events at a competition, does not mean that they have to make these puzzle completely obsolete from competitions, there can be room for these event, but there has to be a significant interest. but these puzzles should only be considered if the new puzzles and event have there allocated times. just like there are not many chance for the WR for feet to be broken (not like many people actually practice feet seriously), why should there be many chance for magic? its just stupid. give a chance for these new puzzle, because a lot of community agrees that some of the event are a drag. spice it up!


So many things wrong with this paragraph. Rubik's companies do significant sponsorship (Worlds, for one of them). As for our decision not to be questioned by the WCA? It's the WCA's decision to make, we can just offer suggestions. I'm not sure what the rest of your paragraph is saying. You seem to be suggesting competition organizers shouldn't be able to choose the events. 



maggot said:


> as far as big puzzles, i think that they have a lot of room to grow, although they do not have as much interest (because of the time investment), they still have their place imho.


They suck to scramble and require significant amount of time to hold.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 20, 2010)

My point is, what's the point of this thread? There was no real NEED to get rid of events so why make a thread that you know people are just gonna bash on different events for? The real question should be, "Do we need to remove events?". Not, which events do you hate? Which is pretty much what this thread has turned into. How would you like it if people got to decide whether or not your favorite event stayed based on how many people thought it was stupid? 

Take it to the WCA Forums. They had this same discussion about 4/5BLD.


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## Joker (Sep 20, 2010)

I hope this thread doesn't become a flamatorium...


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## Kirjava (Sep 20, 2010)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> My point is, what's the point of this thread? There was no real NEED to get rid of events so why make a thread that you know people are just gonna bash on different events for?



There's no need to add events, but we do that.

Can I not ask what events other people wouldn't mind removing? 

I'm so sorry for asking for opinions on something I'm interested in.



PhillipEspinoza said:


> The real question should be, "Do we need to remove events?". Not, which events do you hate?



Ok, so now you're simply twisting my words.

I don't like Square-1, but I think it should be an event. I like OH, but I don't think it should be an event.



PhillipEspinoza said:


> How would you like it if people got to decide whether or not your favorite event stayed based on how many people thought it was stupid?



I would love it, since that would apply to everyone. Let's do that.



PhillipEspinoza said:


> Take it to the WCA Forums.



I fully intend to, but unfortunatly there is only a certain time of year assigned to really dealing with things like these in depth.

Speedsolving.com has a larger audience then the WCA forum, and listening to things from this larger audience has been useful in the past for influencing events. I wonder if you remember.


There is nothing wrong with having this discussion.


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## Joker (Sep 20, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> There's no need to add events, but we do that.
> 
> Can I not ask what events other people wouldn't mind removing?
> 
> ...


Tis looks like the start of a flamatorium...that's why I didn't say what events I would like to get rid of


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## DavidWoner (Sep 20, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> If people are offended by legitimate complaints (and I don't mean simply calling the events stupid (although you could argue that this is a legit complaint)) about events, they are being oversensitive.


 
I've yet to see a legitimate reason to remove an event. Ever.


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## That70sShowDude (Sep 20, 2010)

I agree w/ Phillip. This thread is pointless. Why would you want to get rid of any event. People have been practicing them and are good at them. Besides, the non-popular events that take a while are very rare.

The idea of having a 'scrambled' magic would be pretty cool. Imagine the singles and averages if we did it that way.


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## BigSams (Sep 20, 2010)

Some of you sound like the fifa president who is afraid of computers taking over football refereeing. Don't be afraid of progress. Like I said before, take a vote and all the arguing will stop.


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## Chapuunka (Sep 20, 2010)

That70sShowDude said:


> People have been practicing them and are good at them.


 
People practice (and are good at) all sorts of unofficial events. That doesn't mean that we should make them events.


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## Ashmnafa (Sep 20, 2010)

KboyForeverB said:


> That offends those who are good at it, and it an easy opportunity to get into cubing


 
These are the words I have always been looking for but could never find the right words to say. Thank you sir.


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## riffz (Sep 20, 2010)

As much as I dislike some events, I think removing any would be unfair. All of these events have attracted dedicated competitors who have worked hard to be where they are. On the other hand, some of these events have become quite obsolete (feet, master magic, clock) that keeping them seems silly because the importance of the rankings is significantly lowered since so few people get a chance to compete in them.

That being said, I personally think the spirit of speedsolving should be to solve puzzles as quickly as possible, and adding physical restrictions such as OH and feet is something that has never interested me. The same goes for magic, since its focus is entirely execution, and not "solving" in my sense of the word.


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## jms_gears1 (Sep 20, 2010)

*** he asked for what we thought should be removed, or what we would like to see removed. 
Anyway. I think if Dan Cohen is not competing in feet then its all good.


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## tx789 (Sep 20, 2010)

yes feet


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## ElectricDoodie (Sep 20, 2010)

jms_gears1 said:


> *** he asked for what we thought should be removed, or what we would like to see removed.
> Anyway. I think if Dan Cohen is not competing in feet then its all good.


 
Exactly this. It was just a curious question of cuber's opinions on what they think should be removed, if anything. This is a completely valid question, seeing as how people have opinions, and others are curious about them. I cannot understand the reasoning behind such a debate over something so simple.

Some people need to get less sensitive about things.


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## tx789 (Sep 20, 2010)

not feet. 5x5 bld it takes 10+ mins and is dnfed a lot


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## Kenneth (Sep 20, 2010)

Feet, feet, feet I hear...

If you want to remove feet, then also remove OH becuse it is equally silly, just more poplar 

I'm not a fan of 6x6x6 and 7x7x7, they take too much time and kills the scramblers.


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## Weston (Sep 20, 2010)

Kenneth said:


> Feet, feet, feet I hear...
> 
> If you want to remove feet, then also remove OH becuse it is equally silly, just more poplar
> 
> I'm not a fan of 6x6x6 and 7x7x7, they take too much time and kills the scramblers.


 







[/off topic]
It makes me sad when people mention dropping OH.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 20, 2010)

DavidWoner said:


> I've yet to see a legitimate reason to remove an event. Ever.



Exactly. What if someone created a thread "People to ban from the WCA"? You need a reason to ban someone. You don't just remove people just because they're unpopular, or unsanitary, or they take too long to solve. If you're an organizer and you don't want an event that takes that long, then simply don't have the event at your competition. The initial question was a valid one inspired by curiosity, I guess it's just the responses that annoyed me. 

Also, maybe it's chicken and egg thing. Maybe the reason the times aren't faster for Feet is because it's not popular yet.

A couple years ago, in mid-2007 when the sq-1 WR single was barely sub-20 and the top 100 single was over 7 minutes, there were hardly any competitions in the US that had square-1 as an event. I imagine if a vote was taken then, I'm sure it would've been taken off the list of official events and you wouldn't have people sub-10'ing square-1 and it wouldn't have grown to be as popular of an event as it is now.

Why cut a tree before it grows?


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## ChrisBird (Sep 20, 2010)

It makes me sad when people mention dropping big cubes.

I recommend dropping every event that I don't like. Because that's totally what is right to do.
I am obviously the only intelligent barometer of what is a good event and what isn't.

Herp derp.

(This was not serious. This was not directed at anyone in particular. I'm adding this so I'm not flamed for a joke. kthxbai)

~Chris


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## Kenneth (Sep 20, 2010)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> If you're an organizer and you don't want an event that takes that long, then simply don't have the event at your competition.



True! This is why I like to add events rather than removing any.

If there are easily adapted rules and a scrambler (if needed) for a puzzle, then I think we shall have it =)


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## Anthony (Sep 20, 2010)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> If you're an organizer and you don't want an event that takes that long, then simply don't have the event at your competition.


http://www.speedcubing101.com/small-cubes-open-2010.html
:3

And just to throw my meaningless opinion out there, I don't think any events should be cut. While I do feel that a few could be done away with due to lack of popularity/obscureness/silliness, I don't see a real reason as to why it *should* be done.


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## Erik (Sep 20, 2010)

I'd say either remove feet (would be a shame but whatever..) or have it organized more often. It doesn't make any sense the way it is now where it is an official event but is never organized. If it'd be banned for hygienic reasons I'd be very disappointed in the cubing community since this reason is just bs. if it'd be for popularity reasons I'd understand it.

Furthermore, then 5x5BLD should also be removed since it is not popular.

I'm in favor anyway of getting rid of one of the big BLD events: Multi/4x4BLD/5x5BLD, it's just too much for a 'speedcubing' sport. 3 of those long blindfolded events (we have 4 in total) is a bit too much towards 'blindcubing' sport, which is a memory sport and not a dexterity sport like speedcubing is. There are pro's and con's for removing any of the 3 (I don't think normal BLD should go of course) but I'd like one of them to be removed. It'd give other events a bigger chance of making it like teamBLD (which doesn't take months to master and is a lot of fun), or skewb or sth like that.


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## Enter (Sep 20, 2010)

da25centz said:


> -Pyraminx
> -2x2
> 
> +Feet BLD
> ...


 + OFeet 
+ Feet magic and mastermagic


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## hic0057 (Sep 20, 2010)

I reckon we should instead have a thread of what events we wants in not out. And why worry about magic when it only take 10 minutes of a competition


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## nck (Sep 20, 2010)

I like the idea of scrambled magic.
Besides that, I see no reason in removing events people are practicing for just because 'most' people don't like them.
It's like people saying we should get rid of rubik's cubes at all because most people cannot/aren't interested in solving them.


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## manyhobbyfreak (Sep 20, 2010)

If you dont like a puzzle, then just don't compete in in. It is that simple


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## Johan444 (Sep 20, 2010)

manyhobbyfreak said:


> If you dont like a puzzle, then just don't compete in in. It is that simple


 
It's not that simple 

You might like an event but want to remove it from being an official event, or you might be an organizer and therefore having different reasons to have an event removed.


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## MichaelErskine (Sep 20, 2010)

nck said:


> I like the idea of scrambled magic.


That would be fun.
Is there a Magic scramble generator anywhere? Moreover, is there an accepted Magic notation anywhere?


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## Kirjava (Sep 20, 2010)

DavidWoner said:


> I've yet to see a legitimate reason to remove an event. Ever.



I've heard a certain competition organiser say that they feel like they have to hold every event at the national level. This is a reason for /not adding/ new events due to time constraints. Removing an event nobody likes so that you can add an event that everyone likes is reason enough for me.



PhillipEspinoza said:


> Also, maybe it's chicken and egg thing. Maybe the reason the times aren't faster for Feet is because it's not popular yet.



You honestly think that it's just a matter of time?


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## supercuber86 (Sep 20, 2010)

I'd take out square 1 ive seen people solve it is so weird expecially with the scrambles


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## Radu (Sep 20, 2010)

Why isn't there a poll? It would have been more relevant.
Maybe this topic would have a greater impact on the WCA forum.


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## Bryan (Sep 20, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> I've heard a certain competition organiser say that they feel like they have to hold every event at the national level.



But they don't. The rules don't require it. If they're putting in a ton of effort and time to hold a relatively unpopular event, they need to reconsider. If someone in that country really wants the event, they can organize their own competition and hold it. More competitions, yay!


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## Kirjava (Sep 20, 2010)

Bryan said:


> But they don't. The rules don't require it.


 
Of course they don't - that doesn't change how they feel, and this person has a big influence on what events get added/removed and rules get changed.


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## KboyForeverB (Sep 20, 2010)

How about removing Feet and putting in the chopsticks thing


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## Stefan (Sep 20, 2010)

riffz said:


> some of these events have become quite obsolete (feet, master magic, clock) that keeping them seems silly because the importance of the rankings is significantly lowered since *so few people get a chance to compete in them*.


 
What are you talking about?

So far known this year (more might get announced):
feet: 33 competitions
master magic: 109 competitions
clock: 77 competitions

In 2006 we only had 33 cubing competitions total. I guess we should've gotten rid of cubing competitions since so few people had a chance to compete in them?


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## coinman (Sep 20, 2010)

Cyrus C. said:


> OH is much quicker. OH is sanitary. OH is popular.



And how is not feet sanitary? Don't you wash yours? 
A investigation i saw on TV shoved that the most unsanitary aria of the human body is the hands, not strange at al sins you touch a lot of things between hand washes. There is in fact a lot more bacteria on your average hands then between your bur buttocks!

But really, why remove events at all? I think adding events is better, then the organizers has a lot to chose from. The only problem with having a lot of events is that it's getting harder and harder to do al of them in one competition. Doing all events is not that common as it is in competitions now but in big championships it's more or les necessary. I think three day competitions will become more and more common due to the many events and growing popularity of the cube sport. 

I also think magic and mastermagic is good events sins it's easy to learn and fun for young people and beginners. I got a few kids in to cubing through magic. And It's not at all time consuming.


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## Stefan (Sep 20, 2010)

coinman said:


> A investigation i saw on TV shoved that the most unsanitary aria of the human body is the hands, not strange at al sins you touch a lot of things between hand washes. There is in fact a lot more bacteria on your average hands then between your bur buttocks!



[citation needed]

And:


http://health.howstuffworks.com/skin-care/information/anatomy/question514.htm said:


> So what's different about our feet? The answer is our socks and shoes. The sweat our feet excrete can't easily escape into the air like the sweat our hands excretes -- it all collects on our skin and in our socks. *The bacteria love this dark, damp feast and have a sort of feeding frenzy*.


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## Yes We Can! (Sep 20, 2010)

I'd remove none. But if I had to choose I would take magic and feet.


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## oskarasbrink (Sep 20, 2010)

i don't really see why events should be removed atm. but anyway

magic events and feet


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## Novriil (Sep 20, 2010)

I would remove square-1, but as all the teachers say: If we suck at it, then we say it sucks.


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## Zane_C (Sep 20, 2010)

I personally think it's fine in its current format, the most pointless events would be magic and feet though.


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## That70sShowDude (Sep 20, 2010)

Chapuunka said:


> People practice (and are good at) all sorts of unofficial events. That doesn't mean that we should make them events.



Yes, but these events are already official. That's a big reason why they'd be practicing. Would be very unfair.


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## qqwref (Sep 20, 2010)

coinman said:


> And how is not feet sanitary? Don't you wash yours?


I tend to wash mine about once a day; this is probably normal. And yet in the remaining time I often walk around with shoes on, and they get less clean. I imagine that in the middle of a competition I would have been on my feet for a few hours already. Maybe the event would be more sanitary if it was mandatory for people to wash their feet right before competing (although of course the organizers would have to supply this).



coinman said:


> A investigation i saw on TV shoved that the most unsanitary aria of the human body is the hands, not strange at al sins you touch a lot of things between hand washes. There is in fact a lot more bacteria on your average hands then between your bur buttocks!


Sure you believe this? I will lick one of my hands if you will lick between my buttocks. I will also lick one of my hands if you lick my feet. Number of bacteria means nothing because bacteria are not all equally bad; in fact plenty of them are helpful, such as the bacteria found in huge quantities in yogurt.


----------



## MichaelErskine (Sep 20, 2010)

qqwref said:


> I will lick one of my hands if you will lick between my buttocks


Where is this thread going?


----------



## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 20, 2010)

qqwref said:


> I will lick one of my hands if you will lick between my buttocks.



WHOA. Totally didn't need that. Wow. Ok, can't do anything about it now.

At the risk of going there,


Spoiler



distaste is not an indicator of how much bacteria something has


.

But ya, maybe Hand Sanitizer for your feet? 

Also, one thing if the event were to get removed. What would happen to the current results? Would Annsi hold the official WR forever?! Would it be just like old multi? But they just changed the format of multi, they didn't get rid of it forever.


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## Isbit (Sep 20, 2010)

If any bld events ever get removed, I will form the BCA (BlindCubing Association), and then I can have two rounds everytime!!!


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## qqwref (Sep 20, 2010)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> Also, one thing if the event were to get removed. What would happen to the current results? Would Annsi hold the official WR forever?! Would it be just like old multi? But they just changed the format of multi, they didn't get rid of it forever.


Well, I think they've removed events before (due to lack of popularity IIRC). There is no WR anymore when the event gets removed, but there's nothing stopping the last person to hold the WR from saying that they used to have it.


----------



## Erik (Sep 20, 2010)

Isbit said:


> If any bld events ever get removed, I will form the BCA (BlindCubing Association), and then I can have two rounds everytime!!!


 
Nobody would stop you from doing that. In fact I hope you do so all blindcubers have more fun! (honestly)


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## coinman (Sep 20, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> [citation needed]
> 
> And:



I'm sorry i cant remember the name of this TV documentary. It was however broadcasted on swedish television not to long a go. They tested several arias of the human body for bacteria. Among the test arias was hands, feet, and actually between buttocks! All test persons hade the most bacteria on there hands. 



qqwref said:


> Sure you believe this? I will lick one of my hands if you will lick between my buttocks. I will also lick one of my hands if you lick my feet. Number of bacteria means nothing because bacteria are not all equally bad; in fact plenty of them are helpful, such as the bacteria found in huge quantities in yogurt.



Yes there is a lot of helpful bacteria but bacteria on your hands coming from everything you touch is doubtfully good.


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## Stefan (Sep 20, 2010)

coinman said:


> All test persons hade the most bacteria on there hands.



http://www.chacha.com/question/which-is-cleaner,-your-feet-or-your-hands
Q: Which is cleaner, your feet or your hands?
A: The feet often have more negative organisms on them, and the hands tend to have more positive ones, but the amount is the same.


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## riffz (Sep 21, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> So far known this year (more might get announced):
> feet: 33 competitions
> ...



Right. Tons of people have had a chance to compete in feet because there have been a grand total of 33 competitions that have hosted it over the past 7 years. Not to mention the fact that most of those were in Europe.

I guess the numbers for clock and master magic aren't too bad.


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## splinteh (Sep 21, 2010)

I don't like magic. I mean, you can only do so much....It gets boring. You can get good fast


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Sep 21, 2010)

splinteh said:


> I don't like magic. I mean, you can only do so much....It gets boring. You can get good fast


 
Go get WR right now.


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## Stefan (Sep 21, 2010)

riffz said:


> StefanPochmann said:
> 
> 
> > What are you talking about?
> ...



Um... NO?! That's *87* competitions.


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## riffz (Sep 21, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> Um... NO?! That's *87* competitions.


 
Oops. My apologies.

Ya know, I was thinking to myself last night that I probably wasn't correct, and that arguing with you would result in me looking foolish eventually. Didn't take long.


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## Joemamma556 (Sep 21, 2010)

Magic is all right its really just a filler event during regestration usually 
I don't think feet should go because I never got to compete in it yet lol


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## cubedude7 (Sep 21, 2010)

None. Add 2x2 BLD.


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## Slash (Sep 21, 2010)

Remove 3x3 cuz I suck at it and me no likee.

Seriously, WTF???

In general, I think we shouldn't remove any events. If you don't like an event, don't participate in it, don't have them at competitions you organize maybe, and that's it. If you do like it, practise and have fun with it!

Why should we remove clock? It's an original Rubik's puzzle, and I don't see why would it be bad to have it. And no, it's not hard to scramble. It's like you said that "omg it's so hard to understand the scrambels for 3x3" when you couldn't scramble it.

Why sould we remove feet? Ok, feet can smell bad. But not if you wash it... And scramblers can wear gloves or something. And it's not a reason that it's slow. It's almost exactly as fast/slow/whatever as BLD (single WR 36 in feet and 30 in BLD, and the ones who doesn't practice it get ~5-10 min solves in both).

And why the f*** should we remove 4x4/5x5 BLD? I bet that all the people who said that can't solve them blindfolded. It's a way bigger thing to do than just solve a 3x3x3 (not bld). And it's not unpopular, it just needs a lot time of practice which most of the people would rather use for practising something else. And it doesn't mess up the time schedule: you put them in as a side event, and you lost 0 exact minutes.

(2x2x2, magics an pyraminx are pointless to remove, too. Each of them needs a lot of practice to be good at it, and if we just removed it, all the time the people spent with practising would worth sh*t, and that's btw true for all events you want to remove)


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## Kirjava (Sep 21, 2010)

Slash said:


> And why the f*** should we remove 4x4/5x5 BLD? I bet that all the people who said that can't solve them blindfolded.


 
I lol'd.


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## Slash (Sep 21, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> I lol'd.


 I correct it: They don't practice it.


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## Kirjava (Sep 21, 2010)

If clock wasn't an event, many people who do practise it wouldn't.


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## Andrew Ricci (Sep 21, 2010)

Slash said:


> I correct it: They don't practice it.


 
Doesn't matter. 4 and 5 BLD are disliked because they:

1.) Take forever, even if you are quite good.
2.) Are unpopular. I've seen competitions where only 1 person out of 50 signed up for 4/5 BLD.


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## Slash (Sep 21, 2010)

theanonymouscuber said:


> Doesn't matter. 4 and 5 BLD are disliked because they:
> 
> 1.) Take forever, even if you are quite good.
> 2.) Are unpopular. I've seen competitions where only 1 person out of 50 signed up for 4/5 BLD.



1.) 30 minutes ain't forever. And then why don't we remove multi? it takes an hour :fp
2.) Are unpopular BECAUSE people who maybe want to practice it don't do it because they rather practice something easier. And hold 4/5 blind only if you have enough competitors. I've seen competitions where 1/10 of the competitors signed up (still not a lot I know). It depends on the competitors.


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## Kirjava (Sep 21, 2010)

Slash said:


> Are unpopular BECAUSE people who maybe want to practice it don't do it because they rather practice something easier.


 
I fail to see your point.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 21, 2010)

As far as popularity is concerned, there is another aspect of popularity that at least might be considered: popularity among spectators. I know that often, big cubes BLD is quite interesting to spectators, even though not many compete in it. And as for feet, I have never seen anything generate as much attention from a very busy room as when we held feet at Indiana Winter 2010. The entire room suddenly started paying attention; people were falling over each other to get a good spot to watch. And our kid judges couldn't wait to be a judge for it! Many people certainly went away talking about that event in particular.

Of course, one could argue that's not the kind of attention we want for cubing, but it was certainly popular, from a spectator perspective.


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## Andrew Ricci (Sep 21, 2010)

Slash said:


> 1.) 30 minutes ain't forever. And then why don't we remove multi? it takes an hour :fp


 
Multi only takes as long as the number of cubes you choose to solve, anywhere from two to twenty, or more. Also, multi requires no extra knowledge, simply a good memory/memorization technique.


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## TMOY (Sep 21, 2010)

Yeah, getting a clue about commutators and learning two parity algs. That's a lot of extra knowledge for big BLDs, for sure.


----------



## Slash (Sep 21, 2010)

@Kirjava: if you're on e.g a bus you won't start an 5x5 blind attempt cause it requires more attention. you'd rather start normal 5x5 solving. sorry if I'm not understandable, I know I fail at expressing myself in English

@theanonymuscuber: I mean 30 minutes for a safety 5x5 solve (for the people who're kinda practice it). 30 minutes is enough for maximum 7 cubes in multi (not for everyone, but for most). And what does this topic have to do with extra knowledge? I didn't get it sorry.

I can just keep saying that events which require more time are usually side events and don't mess up the schedule.


----------



## Andrew Ricci (Sep 21, 2010)

Slash said:


> @Kirjava: if you're on e.g a bus you won't start an 5x5 blind attempt cause it requires more attention. you'd rather start normal 5x5 solving. sorry if I'm not understandable, I know I fail at expressing myself in English
> 
> @theanonymuscuber: I mean 30 minutes for a safety 5x5 solve (for the people who're kinda practice it). 30 minutes is enough for maximum 7 cubes in multi (not for everyone, but for most). And what does this topic have to do with extra knowledge? I didn't get it sorry.



We're talking about why big cubes BLD is unpopular. And this argument is getting nowhere. Bai.


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## Andrew Ricci (Sep 21, 2010)

TMOY said:


> Yeah, getting a clue about commutators and learning two parity algs. That's a lot of extra knowledge for big BLDs, for sure.


 
I never said it was a lot.


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## Kirjava (Sep 21, 2010)

Slash said:


> @Kirjava: if you're on e.g a bus you won't start an 5x5 blind attempt cause it requires more attention. you'd rather start normal 5x5 solving.


 
So?


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## Slash (Sep 21, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> So?


 So that you don't practice it, so that you won't be good at it, so that you won't compete in it, so that it becomes an unpopular event.


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## Kirjava (Sep 21, 2010)

So what's your point?


----------



## aronpm (Sep 21, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> As far as popularity is concerned, there is another aspect of popularity that at least might be considered: popularity among spectators. I know that often, big cubes BLD is quite interesting to spectators, even though not many compete in it.
> 
> Of course, one could argue that's not the kind of attention we want for cubing, but it was certainly popular, from a spectator perspective.


I agree with this. At Australian Nationals, during the 4BLD and 5BLD events lots of people were watching us, and during Multi there were even more people (this was at about noon in the middle of a mall ).


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## qqwref (Sep 21, 2010)

Slash said:


> So that you don't practice it, so that you won't be good at it, so that you won't compete in it, so that it becomes an unpopular event.


I hardly think 4BLD and 5BLD are unpopular because people like Kirjava aren't interested. In my view it's unpopular because it is very difficult (not to learn, but to do - requires a lot of concentration, lots of patience, awesome accuracy to get even one success, not to mention mastery of a memo method if you want to be good at it) and takes a lot of time to do even one solve (more than any other event - you can do a multi attempt in 2-3 minutes and a 7x7 in 4).

Look at yourself, even. You have 2 successes in 12 tries for 4BLD and 0 in 8 for 5. And you can hardly argue that you're inexperienced at BLD events. 4BLD and 5BLD are the only two events which regularly end up with no winners. On the other hand, 3BLD is easy enough and multi only requires half the cubes for a non-DNF. I don't think big cube blind events will ever be anywhere near as popular as the others, just because of the time and effort involved.


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## Owen (Sep 21, 2010)

I just realized "Kirjava" is finnish for multicolored. 

lol, some people's usernames are so creative.


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## RCTACameron (Sep 21, 2010)

qqwref said:


> I hardly think 4BLD and 5BLD are unpopular because people like Kirjava aren't interested. In my view it's unpopular because it is very difficult (not to learn, but to do - requires a lot of concentration, lots of patience, awesome accuracy to get even one success, not to mention mastery of a memo method if you want to be good at it) and takes a lot of time to do even one solve (more than any other event - you can do a multi attempt in 2-3 minutes and a 7x7 in 4).
> 
> Look at yourself, even. You have 2 successes in 12 tries for 4BLD and 0 in 8 for 5. And you can hardly argue that you're inexperienced at BLD events. 4BLD and 5BLD are the only two events which regularly end up with no winners. On the other hand, 3BLD is easy enough and multi only requires half the cubes for a non-DNF. I don't think big cube blind events will ever be anywhere near as popular as the others, just because of the time and effort involved.



Aronpm will hate me for this, but I kind of agree with you. Big cubes blind are probably the least nescessary events, and feet is also.

Also, not everyone can do 7x7 in 4 minutes. I don't actually compete in it yet, but unofficialy I take 23.


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## Kirjava (Sep 21, 2010)

Owen said:


> I just realized "Kirjava" is finnish for multicolored.
> 
> lol, some people's usernames are so creative.


 
I am smiling. :3


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## CubesOfTheWorld (Sep 22, 2010)

Although I really like magic, you should take it out. It's the same thing every time. Same with master magic. I'm perfectly fine either way.


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## maggot (Sep 22, 2010)

qqwref said:


> I tend to wash mine about once a day; this is probably normal. And yet in the remaining time I often walk around with shoes on, and they get less clean. I imagine that in the middle of a competition I would have been on my feet for a few hours already. Maybe the event would be more sanitary if it was mandatory for people to wash their feet right before competing (although of course the organizers would have to supply this).
> 
> 
> Sure you believe this? *I will lick one of my hands if you will lick between my buttocks. I will also lick one of my hands if you lick my feet. *Number of bacteria means nothing because bacteria are not all equally bad; in fact plenty of them are helpful, such as the bacteria found in huge quantities in yogurt.



i laughed so hard i cried. 

seriously..

i cried.


----------



## Stefan (Sep 22, 2010)

Awesome, this is like watching little kids kick each other's sand castles.


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## dimwmuni (Sep 22, 2010)

I disagree, I think big cube blind are necessary because a bunch of people are interested in BLD and just 3x3 is not satisfactory. Some big cube BLD has to be kept in my opinion.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 22, 2010)

dimwmuni said:


> I disagree, I think big cube blind are necessary because a bunch of people are interested in BLD and just 3x3 is not satisfactory. Some big cube BLD has to be kept in my opinion.


Well, it is true that if all that was left of BLD was 3x3x3 BLD, my interest level would decrease (I'd probably keep coming to competitions, but probably not so many of them). And keeping multi wouldn't help much, because while I am reasonably good at it, I have to admit I still don't think it's that much fun. I really enjoy big cubes BLD - they're always fun! I kind of like doing a few cubes multi, but when it gets to a whole hour of them, it becomes more of a chore for me. A 7x7x7 BLD seems much more fun and less like work than doing 10 cubes multi, even though they take about the same amount of time. I don't know why, but that's the way it is for me.



StefanPochmann said:


> Awesome, this is like watching little kids kick each other's sand castles.


The problem for me is that I'm delusional and think all the sand castles are mine, so I'm just sitting here crying my eyes out. I wanted to keep them all, but just look at the beach - destruction everywhere!


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## Zane_C (Sep 22, 2010)

RCTACameron said:


> Aronpm will hate me for this, but I kind of agree with you. Big cubes blind are probably the least nescessary events, and feet is also.


 
I will also hate you


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## Isbit (Sep 22, 2010)

RCTACameron said:


> Aronpm will hate me for this, but I kind of agree with you. Big cubes blind are probably the least nescessary events, and feet is also.
> 
> Also, not everyone can do 7x7 in 4 minutes. I don't actually compete in it yet, but unofficialy I take 23.



He didn't say that they were unnessecary, just that they were hard and not very popular.


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## Slash (Sep 22, 2010)

qqwref said:


> In my view it's unpopular because it is very difficult (not to learn, but to do - requires a lot of concentration, lots of patience, awesome accuracy to get even one success, not to mention mastery of a memo method if you want to be good at it)



3x3 BLD used to be the same. And it became a popular event. And 4x4 BLD solvers are more and more.



qqwref said:


> you can do a multi attempt in 2-3 minutes



Multi doesn't mean only 2 (or 3) cubes.



qqwref said:


> Look at yourself, even. You have 2 successes in 12 tries for 4BLD and 0 in 8 for 5.



That's just because I don't practice a lot (because the things I've said before) and go for speed all the time. I'm not saying that I could get 100% accuracy. But just look at Alejandro Orozco or István Kocza. They have very good accuracy (Alejandro's 100% but it's only 3 solves) and István had only 2 competitions where he didn't solve the 4x4, and 3 where he didn't solve the 5x5 (and those were back in 2008). I'm just saying that if you _really_ want it you can do it.


----------



## Kirjava (Sep 22, 2010)

>implying bigbld has a similar difficulty level to normalbld


----------



## Slash (Sep 22, 2010)

I've never said that it's now the same. What I try to say is this:
3x3 BLD had only 2 successful official solves until 2003, 9 until 2004, 32 until 2005 and 91 until 2006.
4x4 BLD had only 1 until 2004 and 2005, but in 2006 Chris Hardwick already had a 8 minutes solve which now could be e.g a Hungarian NR. in 2008 we had 25, until 2009 35, and now we have 66 (and they're getting more and more). By the end of the year I think that the number of it will be more than 75 which is three times as much as in 2008. For me it seems to be increasing, not as fast as the 3x3's does, but it does.


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## qqwref (Sep 22, 2010)

Slash said:


> 3x3 BLD used to be the same. And it became a popular event. And 4x4 BLD solvers are more and more.


3x3 BLD cannot be as popular as 3x3 speed. 4x4 BLD cannot be as popular as 3x3 BLD. Obviously the event will grow as cubing does, but you are delusional if you think it could ever become one of the most popular events.



Slash said:


> Multi doesn't mean only 2 (or 3) cubes.


I know that, but it can. You can compete in the event without taking much time (even if you may not get the best result) and you can practice your technique, turn speed, and memorization method with only a few cubes (i.e. quickly). Even for the very best people, 5BLD takes a good chunk of time. Comparing world-class competitors, or good competitors, it requires more time to do a practice or official 5BLD solve than in any other event.



Slash said:


> That's just because I don't practice a lot (because the things I've said before) and go for speed all the time. I'm not saying that I could get 100% accuracy. But just look at Alejandro Orozco or István Kocza. They have very good accuracy (Alejandro's 100% but it's only 3 solves) and István had only 2 competitions where he didn't solve the 4x4, and 3 where he didn't solve the 5x5 (and those were back in 2008). I'm just saying that if you _really_ want it you can do it.


That's not evidence that if you really want to you can do it, that's evidence that if you are very good you can do it. I don't think everyone can be that good; it's especially unlikely for anyone who isn't highly motivated to practice the event. I think 90%+ of cubers fall in this category and I see no reason why that number would substantially change in the future.


----------



## Slash (Sep 23, 2010)

ok, but I still think we shouldn't remove them.


----------



## qqwref (Sep 23, 2010)

I don't either. (Well, I'm not sure about 5BLD. But 4BLD should stay.)


----------



## Stefan (Sep 23, 2010)

qqwref said:


> I don't either. (Well, I'm not sure about 5BLD. But 4BLD should stay.)


 
5BLD stays. I need to eventually replace my pathetic 2.5 hours.


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## qqwref (Sep 23, 2010)

Why not just get rid of it? 

But hey, I never thought you'd compete in big blind again. It would be cool to see it happen.


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## Slash (Sep 23, 2010)

Yes, it just wouldn't be fair
Tell me if I'm wrong, but this 2.5h was the longest standing NR, wasn't it?


----------



## Stefan (Sep 23, 2010)

qqwref said:


> I never thought you'd compete in big blind again.



Oh I will... I'm building and practicing a better memory method now.



Slash said:


> Tell me if I'm wrong, but this 2.5h was the longest standing NR, wasn't it?



All of these stood much longer:
https://worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?allResults=All+Results&competitionId=WC1982

And from the new era, this is the max:
https://worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2003POUR01


----------



## cmhardw (Sep 23, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> 5BLD stays. I need to eventually replace my pathetic 2.5 hours.


 
That 2.5 hour solve was the *first* official 5BLD solve, which is saying something. I think you deserve this credit 

Chris


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## Kirjava (Sep 24, 2010)

Aw. I was hoping you wouldn't do it again because of the whole "longest time taken for any solve in any event by anyone ever" thing. 

Also, it cannot actually be broken anymore.


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## qqwref (Sep 24, 2010)

But he'll still have that record - it just won't be a personal best anymore. And there have been longer solves in old multi, which were successful solves despite not having all cubes done.

Are there actually any current time limits on 4BLD or 5BLD? Could an organizer theoretically let you remove the blindfold, wait four hours, and then stop the timer? (The regulations say the competitor has to notify the judge that the solve is over, so in theory, before putting down the cube, they could explicitly tell the judge that when they put down the cube the solve will NOT yet be over, and the judge would have to wait until the competitor changed their mind.)


----------



## Mike Hughey (Sep 24, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> Aw. I was hoping you wouldn't do it again because of the whole "longest time taken for any solve in any event by anyone ever" thing.
> 
> Also, it cannot actually be broken anymore.


 
(assuming the thing you're saying can't be broken is the "longest time taken for any solve in any event by anyone ever") Why not? I don't think there's any time limit required by the rules for any event other than multiBLD and fewest moves. The limit is at 10 minutes by default unless otherwise specified by the organizer, but that can be changed by organizers, and often is, even for things other than big cubes BLD. It doesn't even have to be a BLD event. People have recently gone over 10 minutes for 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 solves (even last weekend!); why not over 3 hours, if the organizer allows it? (Of course, I don't personally recommend that organizers allow 3 hours for solves, but I'm just saying it is possible according to the rules.)

Edit: Ninja'ed by qq.


----------



## Kirjava (Sep 24, 2010)

Oh. When they changed multibld I assumed it applied to all BLD.

I do recall seeing some 30 min 7x7x7 solves in the past 

But ya, I thought it was cool as a personal best.


----------



## cmhardw (Sep 24, 2010)

Well, the trend for Big Cube BLD at big competitions seems to be the 2 hour time limit for your solves per event. I assume this will eventually, if it hasn't already, become standard. So even if you did sit there in your chair with a solved cube, but you haven't yet removed the blindfolded, after 2 hours you would (or at least should) be DQ'd unless you chose to finish the solve by saying "done."

Chris


----------



## Tim Reynolds (Sep 24, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> And from the new era, this is the max:
> https://worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2003POUR01


 
Well, that wasn't the NR for quite a while. Michiel van der Blonk held it for a while...then pointed out to us that he wasn't actually ever a citizen of Aruba a few weeks ago. So that NR is actually pretty new. This is just nit-picking, of course


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## Kirjava (Oct 5, 2011)

Slash said:


> 4x4 BLD had only 1 until 2004 and 2005, but in 2006 Chris Hardwick already had a 8 minutes solve which now could be e.g a Hungarian NR. in 2008 we had 25, until 2009 35, and now we have 66 (and they're getting more and more). By the end of the year I think that the number of it will be more than 75


 
lol


----------



## cubersmith (Oct 5, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> lol


 
by the end of this year maybe.


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## Sebastien (Oct 5, 2011)

not "maybe".


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## cubersmith (Oct 5, 2011)

Sébastien_Auroux said:


> not "maybe".


 
how many people will sign up for 4BLD in 3 months?


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 5, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> lol


It was only off by 2 - not a bad prediction, I think.

By the end of this year I predict it will be more than 125. Let's see how well I do...


----------



## pjk (Oct 5, 2011)

cubersmith said:


> how many people will sign up for 4BLD in 3 months?


113 people have now successfully solve a 4x4 BLD in comp. I suspect the number will be 120 by the end of 2011.


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 5, 2011)

pjk said:


> 113 people have now successfully solve a 4x4 BLD in comp. I suspect the number will be 120 by the end of 2011.


 
I guess I'm just optimistic by nature. That and I was sort of hoping I would be off by 2 as well - I thought that would be cool.


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## TheZenith27 (Oct 10, 2011)

Feet and 4x4/5x5 BLD


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## ianography (Oct 10, 2011)

Feet, only because the general population hates it.


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## gundamslicer (Oct 10, 2011)

Magic
Only the same case
Everytime, just memorization and practice of the same alg


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## 5BLD (Oct 10, 2011)

Magic but keep feet IMO


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## somerandomkidmike (Oct 10, 2011)

Keep feet. Take away magic. If people want to repeat the exact same thing over and over again, they could always do speedstacking.


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## DaKrazedKyubizt (Oct 10, 2011)

Um... Yeah, I know this sounds like a really stupid idea, and i'll probably get a TON of smack for it, but it is something to consider (not that it's WORTH considering, you can decide that for yourself, but it's definitely a THING to consider). With this idea, I am advocating for keeping feet:

Has anyone ever considered the idea of foot-washing stations in preparation for the foot event? I don't think that would be a terrible idea. How to set them up? Clueless. But if they could be set up, I think it would definitely increase the popularity of feet solving. Also, I liked the idea from that one guy (I don't remember who it was) who said that the scramblers should be able to use gloves. That's a great idea. If the event is popular for spectators, as Mr. Hughey argues, and everyone else thinks it's unpopular among cubers because it's unsanitary and silly and stupid, well, the silly and stupid part are just your opinions, and it's near impossible to change the general cubing community's opinion on the subject, but it's definitely far from impossible to make the event more sanitary. 

And I agree with Mr. Hughey. Spectators are important. Personally, I think taking away from spectators takes A LOT away from the thing that is being spectated. Taking away from spectators would turn cubing into something like table tennis. There's not too many spectators for table tennis (except for huge comps, like WTTC and Olympics). That makes a whole lot of people think it should be taken out of the Olympics, while the people who actually play it seriously (like me ) would be very disgruntled at the idea of removing it from the Olympics because it's an incredible game that actually requires lots of skill and fantastic neural motor connections, just like many other sports in the Olympics. From my POV (that is, a player's POV), I'd say that people don't like the sport because they haven't played enough to learn about how much skill is actually necessary to play table tennis, especially at the professional level. It's absolutely insane. Of course it looks easy if you don't know much about the sport, but if you were to try to play against someone who's serious about the sport, you'd probably get ripped apart, getting one courtesy point from your opponent if they're even willing to do so.

To complete the comparison, because the people who spectate feet, 4x4 bld, & 5x5 bld look at the events and can see very clearly (unlike in table tennis) that it actually requires skill to do feet solves quickly or bigcubebld quickly/accurately, and we all know (some from experience, some from a spectator's point of a view) that it actually requires skill gives even more of reason to keep the events in speedcubing competitions than reason to keep table tennis in the Olympics. Not only that, but spectators also watch it because, if you're an outsider, what are the chances that you'll get to watch someone solve a 4x4 or 5x5 bld in front of your very eyes in real life? Nobody does it, and it looks like a cool, rare, peculiar, mysterious skill requiring unfathomable intellect to the completely uninformed outsider. Spectators really do keep things interesting (because if nobody's interested, it's not interesting) and add a lot to competitions instead of making all speedcubers look like nerds that get together and do speedcubing things with other speedcubers without showing the general public because they're not interested. I think that to take away feet/4x4bld/5x5bld would only kind of help to seclude ourselves from the general public. IMHO, it's kind of pointless to have a WR in any event if nobody except other people who do the event know about it. (That last sentence wasn't meant to be a bashing, nor was it meant to be generally true. That statement actually has a ton of exceptions to it purely due the fact that it's just my measly opinion, and many others think differently, so please don't give me smack for saying that. That's why the key phrase there is "IMHO".)

[off topic]On that note, why isn't there more public advertisement for speedcubing competitions? We should figure out how to get that done. That'd be awesome to see more people at more competitions.[/off topic]

And also, no. I'm not saying we should turn speedcubing into an actual spectator sport to make events more popular. That would be totally irrelevant. After reading this thread, it seems like there are people who assume that that is what I'm trying to get at. I'm just making a comparison. It's probably a bad comparison, but, hey, I'm trying. I was never too good at writing essays and the like in English class.

There's my two cents. I'm ready for any smack coming my way.

EDIT: On the topic of magic/master magic, I'm on the fence about getting rid of them. I personally don't care for them, and I think it's a bit of a pointless event, like many other people have expressed on this thread, but I do wonder what that would do for all the people who actually work hard on magic/master magic. I'd hate to have all that practice time suddenly made worthless. That's kind of cruel. 

(I'll probably get more smack for my edit than the rest of my post, lol.)


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## TheMachanga (Oct 10, 2011)

I've never been to a competition with feet, but I can already imagine the smell....so I don't want that.

Plus, there are already enough videos on youtube of people solving with feet, non-cubers can watch those.


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## ~Adam~ (Oct 10, 2011)

Magic & Master Magic. They are not twisty puzzles. If they weren't made by Rubik then they wouldn't have become official events in the 1st place.
They should either be removed or add every Rubik product that can be made into an event.


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## antoineccantin (Oct 10, 2011)

gundamslicer said:


> Magic
> Only the same case
> Everytime, just memorization and practice of the same alg


 
Good idea, take away Magic, but keep Master Magic


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## Kirjava (Oct 10, 2011)

Someone needs to write a magic scrambler.


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## JonnyWhoopes (Oct 10, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> Someone needs to write a magic scrambler.


 
And develop a solving method.


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## Kirjava (Oct 10, 2011)

Solving method would be obvious. God's alg for magic won't be difficult to learn.


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## cityzach (Oct 10, 2011)

definetly keep magic and master magic. get rid of feet.


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## Thompson (Oct 10, 2011)

People just like magic because it's easy to get fast at if you're not good at other events.


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## Vinny (Oct 10, 2011)

I think that if anything, magic and master magic should be the first to go (Sorry Zach ). 3x3 feet may be unpopular, but it is still interesting. It's actually a lot like OH solving, because you're solving the 3x3 in a way that you normally wouldn't solve it.

The problem with the magics is that they're not really scrambled, so I'm not really sure if it should be considered a puzzle in the same way as every other twisty puzzle. I personally think that clock is a bit silly, but it's a puzzle that you actually scramble instead of just repeating the same exact flips every time. Also, if people practice the same thing over and over with magic, why not make an event for every single PLL?


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## Jaycee (Oct 10, 2011)

Vinny said:


> Also, if people practice the same thing over and over with magic, why not make an event for every single PLL?


 
Not everyone who knows how to solve a 3x3 knows PLL?  (/minor sarcasm)


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## insane569 (Oct 10, 2011)

magic for sure
master magic aswell
feet im ok with cause it is a challenge and its a different way of solving like OH
maybe 7x7 and 6x6 cause then there would be more time for other events like another round of 3x3 or another puzzle


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## CRO (Oct 10, 2011)

If something should be removed, it's magic and master magic IMO.


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## Andrew Ricci (Oct 10, 2011)

insane569 said:


> maybe 7x7 and 6x6 cause then there would be more time for other events like another round of 3x3 or another puzzle


 
I disagree with this. 6x6 and 7x7 don't take long at all, as long as you have fairly strict cutoffs. And even if you figure they would take too long with strict cutoffs, no one is forcing you to have 6x6 and 7x7 at your competition anyway. The amount of time an event takes isn't quite a good enough reason to remove it all together.

Although, when larger cubes like the 8x8 and 9x9 are widely available, I really don't think they should be official events. You have to draw the limit somewhere, unless many people can do 8x8 in under 5 minutes.


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## Igora (Oct 10, 2011)

I can't say I see the point in taking away events. Especially if the organizers of the competitions are the ones to pick the events involved, it doesn't take away their time if they don't add the event. Plus, it's not like adding events requires a large investment of time and energy to keep track of, especially if the event is unpopular and will rarely be needed to have upkeep. As I see it, the only reason to get rid of an event, or to want an event away, would be because it doesn't meet requirements of what someone defines as speedsolving, such as the magics, or dislike the idea, such as feet. However, I don't see these as a problem for the reason that the magics' premise can be altered to where the puzzle is scrambled and then solved from that state. As for the feet, it's not as if you're made to take part in the event, or even watch it. Overall, I don't think "I dislike event ___. Therefore, no should be able to compete in it" is a valid argument. That being said, I can understand time limits on events and wasting the time of delegates, yet with strict rules on those limits, this shouldn't be a problem.


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## qqwref (Oct 10, 2011)

I think we should remove the 3x3x3 speedsolve. The solves are too fast to be interesting and it doesn't take much skill at all. Plus, too many people want to compete in it, to the point where it takes up a large amount of time at most competitions. Without this event we would be able to spend much more time on the more interesting and worthwhile events.


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## brandbest1 (Oct 10, 2011)

i see no point in removing events, because the people that are good at it will just get extremely angry at how much they practiced for an event and now it's gone.


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## Hershey (Oct 10, 2011)

We should ask people to vote on the WCA website. Notify every single cubing forum about which event they would like to take out.


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## qqwref (Oct 10, 2011)

I don't think any events are actually going to be removed, and there's no real reason to have people vote on it. Every event currently in the WCA has many reasons to remain there, including the fact that many people have already practiced it and recorded official times on it.


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## Vinny (Oct 10, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I don't think any events are actually going to be removed, and there's no real reason to have people vote on it. Every event currently in the WCA has many reasons to remain there, including the fact that many people have already practiced it and recorded official times on it.



This. 

There isn't rally a need to get rid of events, because the delegates and organizers of a competition choose which events to host, and if they choose not to host feet, magic, etc. then that is their choice.


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## Kirjava (Oct 10, 2011)

Vinny said:


> There isn't rally a need to get rid of events, because the delegates and organizers of a competition choose which events to host, and if they choose not to host feet, magic, etc. then that is their choice.


 
This isn't an option for competitions where every event has to be held, so this causes problems for introducing new events, as there is not enough time for them.


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 10, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> This isn't an option for competitions where every event has to be held, so this causes problems for introducing new events, as there is not enough time for them.


 
I realize we have a tradition for it, especially at world championships, but there is nothing in the regulations that *requires* that every event be held in any competition. So I disagree with you - there's no such thing as "a competition where every event has to be held". I see no reason why we couldn't have a world championship and leave out events.


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## Kirjava (Oct 10, 2011)

We can, but won't. Your point is invalid.

I didn't mention regulations, Tyson used the fact that he makes sure Nats holds every event against changing BLD to best of 5.


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 10, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> We can, but won't.


Why?


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## Kirjava (Oct 10, 2011)

If it does happen, it gives leeway to adding more events. This isn't something that the WCA board seems to want to do.


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## blakedacuber (Oct 10, 2011)

why get rid of events anyway? think of it this way, its kid of like saying "don't make 3x3x3's anymore because everyone has one" ok maybe not but you get what i mean... every event was made official for a reason and besides if you don't want an event at a competition your competing in, just don't compete in it simple therefore you have nothing to do with it unless you have to scramble and even then its not that big of a deal. as for the feet/magic/mmagic. As for the discussion of magic and mmagic, they take up hardly any time any way. As for feet, I' sure every one has tried it(some probably wont admit it) but you have to say it is funny to watch


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## ljackstar (Oct 11, 2011)

OK, So I've never actually been to an event (There has never been one in my city... ever) So I can't speak outta experience but personally. However, I don't really think any event should be removed. From what I can see, all of the require skill and practice.


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## Ranzha (Oct 11, 2011)

As many have said, it's ultimately the organizer's decision to have certain events at a competition.
In regard to the Berkeley Octodecathlon, Vince said he'd run every event except feet. It's a prime example.

So like, just because a good handful of people don't particularly like certain events (ahem, magics and feet) doesn't mean they shouldn't be cut. Just as with any puzzle, there are people who strive to get better, who've put in the days upon days of practice and who have official times in the database. Is it right and fair to deny them of their time and of their willingness?

Just my two cents.


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## Mikel (Oct 11, 2011)

I believe all events should stay. Sure I don't see myself doing big cubes blind in the near future, and I know they are not popular, but what if I want to try it out sometime and would like to compete?


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## jskyler91 (Oct 11, 2011)

Mikel said:


> I believe all events should stay. Sure I don't see myself doing big cubes blind in the near future, and I know they are not popular, but what if I want to try it out sometime and would like to compete?


 
I 100% agree, also, these events don't take up that much time considering that only like 1 or two people ever do them. You can do other events while that 1 person id doing 4x4 blind or feet.


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## Vincents (Oct 11, 2011)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> As many have said, it's ultimately the organizer's decision to have certain events at a competition.
> In regard to the Berkeley Octodecathlon, Vince said he'd run every event except feet. It's a prime example.
> 
> So like, just because a good handful of people don't particularly like certain events (ahem, magics and feet) doesn't mean they shouldn't be cut. Just as with any puzzle, there are people who strive to get better, who've put in the days upon days of practice and who have official times in the database. Is it right and fair to deny them of their time and of their willingness?
> ...



I actually like feet too. It's just really smelly, and giving the scrambler gloves and hand sanitizer doesn't take away the psychological factor.


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## irontwig (Oct 12, 2011)

lol, you guys are way too paranoid about feet.


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## Bapao (Oct 12, 2011)

irontwig said:


> lol, you guys are way too paranoid about feet.


 
Right? It's a fun event  I remember that one post where Kirjava wrote that he handed his foot cube to Verdes at a comp to get it signed and Verdes declined. F yo couch nikuh!


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## 5BLD (Oct 12, 2011)

Have people who hate feet actually tried it for more than half an hour?
Feet is my second favourite event... But I'm not any fast.


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## Bapao (Oct 12, 2011)

5BLD said:


> *people who hate feet* actually tried it for more than half an hour?
> Feet is my second favourite event... But I'm not any fast.



Guffaw!

Times please ...


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## 5BLD (Oct 12, 2011)

Was that some accidental pun I did? I don't get it haha.
I average 3:20 with Roux btw.


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## fastcubesolver (Oct 12, 2011)

I would like feet to stay but there are a lot of people that would disagree, for some crazy reason. I think that 4x4 and 5x5 BLD should definitely stay, those people who have the skills to do that should definately be able to compete in it. And more and more people are getting into big cube BLD, I would hate to see it go. And magic is dumb, but kinda cool at the sam time, I really don't have an opinion on whether it should say or not.


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## Cheese11 (Oct 14, 2011)

fastcubesolver said:


> I would like feet to stay but there are a lot of people that would disagree, for some crazy reason. I think that 4x4 and 5x5 BLD should definitely stay, those people who have the skills to do that should definately be able to compete in it. And more and more people are getting into big cube BLD, I would hate to see it go. And magic is dumb, but kinda cool at the sam time, I really don't have an opinion on whether it should say or not.


 
Mostly I agree with you, but feet is just gross I'm my opinion. You have to like, feel up your cube with your feet, then use it again after.


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## Cheese11 (Oct 14, 2011)

5BLD said:


> Have people who hate feet actually tried it for more than half an hour?
> Feet is my second favourite event... But I'm not any fast.


 
Of course I have, took me 45 min to do a solve! I'm kidding of course... But actually, I hate it with a passion.


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## Sillas (Oct 14, 2011)

Feet and Clock


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