# Big cube BLD progression



## HEART (Oct 21, 2012)

Hiya.

Up on trying to learn 4BLD, I was curious how others have progressed through big cube BLD

What are some things that help learn bigger BLD? How long did it take you to get your first success on 4BLD/5BLD/xBLD

I feel as though there need to be more 4BLD video tutorials. While although Daniel's is very well done, it doesn't always fit everyone. 

-

What i want to be different with this thread from the other big cube BLD thread, is that I want take poll of how many of you big cube BLD'ers have done more 

than 5BLD, whether it be 6 or 7, or even other puzzles. This IS the BLD subforum, no need to be restrained to cubes.


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## Noahaha (Oct 21, 2012)

I would say that the difference between bigBLD and 3BLD is that the bigger the cube, the more memorization matters as opposed to execution. For me the most difficult part by far was coming up with a good system for memo, since you can basically apply any 3BLD method to bigger cubes. My next video will be about the memorization aspects of 4 and 5BLD, since I think daniel covered execution very well.


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## Mikel (Oct 21, 2012)

Other: 3x3 BLD I would say its a good progression to big cubes BLD 

Attempt that I completed first success:
2x2 BLD: no idea
3x3 BLD: 4th
4x4 BLD: 1st
5x5 BLD: 3rd


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## HEART (Oct 21, 2012)

the main part that i'm struggling with is centers on 4BLD. Comm set ups tend to be confusing, but M2 seem even more confusing and long.I know how to memo centers and edges fine, but centers are the only thing holding me back.


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## vd (Oct 21, 2012)

For me, the most difficult part in big cubes BLD was accuracy. Especially on 5BLD, it was not that hard to memorize everything, neither it was that hard to solve the cube, but the hardest thing was not to make a single mistake in many hundreds of moves.


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## TMOY (Oct 21, 2012)

Same for me. That's why it took me so long to get a 5BLD official success (and that's also why I'm really inconsistent at multi).


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## CubeRoots (Oct 21, 2012)

333bf not an option :confused:


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## NevinsCPH (Oct 21, 2012)

I did 4BLD and 5BLD, and 5BLD actually is so much harder for me because there are 2 types of centre. So I'll have to memorise them in a different order, I memo x centre then edge wings then + centre to reduce my chances of confusion.


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## DrKorbin (Oct 21, 2012)

HEART said:


> What are some things that help learn bigger BLD?


There are no things, you just sit and learn ^_^



HEART said:


> How long did it take you to get your first success on 4BLD/5BLD/xBLD


4x4 - 3rd attempt; 5x5 - 1st; 6x6 - 4th; 7x7 - about 15th attempt.



HEART said:


> I feel as though there need to be more 4BLD video tutorials. While although Daniel's is very well done, it doesn't always fit everyone.


They are not needed, really. If you don't understand comms for centers, you can start with U2 method. For wings, the r2 method is pretty straightforward.


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## A Leman (Oct 21, 2012)

I have solved multi with my 2 4X4's and some 3x3's, but have not even dared to try 5bld with my rubiks brand. I locks up so badly that I haven't speedsolved it for months. The execution would be too frustrating. Once I get a good cube, I think I will get a 5bld fairly quickly.


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## drewsopchak (Oct 21, 2012)

2-5. Would do bigger cubes, however I have a v-6 missing one piece, and I'm not gonna do 7 until I get a SS.


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## HEART (Oct 22, 2012)

Why wait for a SS? is your 7 borked or something? or do you just not like the pillow?

As far as big cube BLD progression goes, are there really wany faster methods? I know of r2, U2, comms ( centers ) I'm not counting corners because those don't change for big cubes.

How fast do you think 7BLD can get if someone actually stuck to it and tried to get faster? I remember mike's being around an hour (?)


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## Mikel (Oct 22, 2012)

HEART said:


> Why wait for a SS? is your 7 borked or something? or do you just not like the pillow?
> 
> As far as big cube BLD progression goes, are there really wany faster methods? I know of r2, U2, comms ( centers ) I'm not counting corners because those don't change for big cubes.
> 
> How fast do you think 7BLD can get if someone actually stuck to it and tried to get faster? I remember mike's being around an hour (?)



I know for a fact Mike has a 37 minute 7x7 BLD. He's the only one I know who does it semi-regularly in the weekly competition.


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## HEART (Oct 22, 2012)

I almost want to see 6bld and 7bld in competitions, but that will never happen. Almost no one does it, but i think it'd be interesting if some competitions hosted it as an unofficial event.


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## emolover (Oct 22, 2012)

@HEART

How are you with memoing 4BLD edges? When I did my first attempt(and official attempt) it took me 25 minutes to memorize edges.


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## HEART (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm fairly decenti suppose. I don't time myself on 4bld, i'm just sitting on my bed for now whenever i try 4BLD. I just use straight up letters, no stories or anything. I use pairs of 4 letters to make a word. MIAV-JPEC-LKTS etc. I'd estimate i'm at about 8 minutes to memo edges


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## Mikel (Oct 22, 2012)

emolover said:


> @HEART
> 
> How are you with memoing 4BLD edges? When I did my first attempt(and official attempt) it took me 25 minutes to memorize edges.



25 minutes just for edges? I think when I did my first attempt (success) it took me 23 minutes to memorize the whole cube. I use Roman rooms and use 4 locations for edges with each having 3 letter pairs interacting. I think my 4BLD memo now is about 8 minutes for the whole cube.


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## emolover (Oct 22, 2012)

Mikel said:


> 25 minutes just for edges? I think when I did my first attempt (success) it took me 23 minutes to memorize the whole cube. I use Roman rooms and use 4 locations for edges with each having 3 letter pairs interacting. I think my 4BLD memo now is about 8 minutes for the whole cube.



Yes 25 minutes for edges, but centers and corners only took me 5 minutes. It took me so long to figure out where the piece went. I think I should put a cube in front of me for reference. Can you do that? I saw Mike doing it.


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## Cubenovice (Oct 22, 2012)

emolover said:


> I think I should put a cube in front of me for reference. Can you do that?



Interesting... 
Many cubers have an additional cube on the table during official solves (to use in the waiting area) but I never thought about it as a reference item for BLD.
It *could* *act as such so perhaps a regulation update is in order?

emolover: finding where the edge goes becomes easier with time.
Eventually you will just know where each sticker has to go.


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## DrKorbin (Oct 22, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Interesting...
> Many cubers have an additional cube on the table during official solves (to use in the waiting area) but I never thought about it as a reference item for BLD.
> It *could* *act as such so perhaps a regulation update is in order?


I saw a little discussion about it somewhere, but no actions were taken, and current and "new" regs say nothing about it.
Really, it wont speed up fast blindfolders. In fact, if you have learnt your center positions in your orientation (and you should learn it after some practice in 3x3 bld), then I don't see how another cube will help you.


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## Cubenovice (Oct 22, 2012)

It would indeed not speed up the fast solver 

But from emolovers post it seems like it could help him.


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 22, 2012)

emolover said:


> Yes 25 minutes for edges, but centers and corners only took me 5 minutes. It took me so long to figure out where the piece went. I think I should put a cube in front of me for reference. Can you do that? I saw Mike doing it.



Wow, I didn't even think about that. I was simply holding my 3x3x3 when I had to do 4BLD, and I was going to put it in my pocket, but my glasses were already there, so I put it on the table because I didn't have anywhere better to put it. I definitely wasn't looking at it for reference - that would be slow. 

It takes a while to get used to seeing where the edges go. It took me several months to get where it was automatic. Now, however, it's really automatic, which unfortunately means I can't handle a cube that doesn't have my color scheme.

With regard to the original post, I've solved 2x2x2, 3x3x3, 4x4x4, 5x5x5, 6x6x6, 7x7x7, 8x8x8, megaminx, pyraminx, square-1, clock, skewb, UFO BLD so far. (I can't think of any others right now, but I may be forgetting something.) My gigaminx hasn't gotten here yet.  I got successful solves on most of these within my first 3 attempts, but 6x6x6 took 4 tries, 8x8x8 took 14 tries, and I'm not sure about megaminx, but it took a lot of tries too.


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## cmhardw (Oct 22, 2012)

For anyone attempting bigger BLD I would suggest to invest time now in a good memory method. It doesn't have to be terribly elaborate, but visual is often hard for those just learning bigger BLD. There are people who do very well with visual on the bigger cubes and get fast solves, but I feel that this can be intimidating to someone just starting out. Read up on Journey methods, sentence methods, letter pair methods and see if any of that sounds good to you.

The bigger the cube, the more you have to memorize. So start smaller (4BLD) and work up one cube size at a time (then 5BLD, then 6BLD, etc.).


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## HEART (Oct 27, 2012)

Are there any special ways some of you big BLDers practice memo besides cubing? I know ollie has memorized decks of cards, is there anything else?


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## A Leman (Oct 28, 2012)

HEART said:


> Are there any special ways some of you big BLDers practice memo besides cubing? I know ollie has memorized decks of cards, is there anything else?



you can use the principles of the method of loci for lots of things. you could memo cards,numbers,parts of books,Vocabulary,random letters,the periodic table,presidents,monarchs,capitals,quotes,to-do lists,anatomy,phone numbers and more. Just about everything you memorize will help improve you memory skills. I have found this http://www.dave-reed.com/Nifty/randSeq.html useful to practice letterpairs where cubing is inappropriate. It can also do numbers if you are interested.


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## Ickathu (Oct 28, 2012)

I think I'm gonna switch my 4x4 edge lettering scheme from an Eric Limeback's 3x3 variant to that, but based on setup moves. So If I memo A, I would do the same thing (r2) that I would do for A on a 3x3 (M2), instead of having to do my 3x3 equivalent of B as A. Does that seem like a good way to letter it? How long will it take to switch, cause I've only done 4 attempts.

U layer for example:
Old:
x A B x
H x x C
G x x D
x F E x

New:
x B A x
G x x D
H x x C
x E F x

Does that make sense?


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## HEART (Oct 28, 2012)

I use daniel sheppards letter scheme. Works well and isn't to hard to pick up. It's a pretty different system from eric's, but it's intuitive enough to just use.


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## Ickathu (Oct 28, 2012)

Link?


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## HEART (Oct 28, 2012)

There ya go. Check the description


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## Cubenovice (Oct 28, 2012)

HEART said:


> Are there any special ways some of you big BLDers practice memo besides cubing? I know ollie has memorized decks of cards, is there anything else?



And this is where my initial fear about this thread comes true 

Now we're getting into big bld discussion and that is a different thread.
It would be good if all the info relating to the actual solvings stays in one thread.


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## Mikel (Oct 29, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> I think I'm gonna switch my 4x4 edge lettering scheme from an Eric Limeback's 3x3 variant to that, but based on setup moves. So If I memo A, I would do the same thing (r2) that I would do for A on a 3x3 (M2), instead of having to do my 3x3 equivalent of B as A. Does that seem like a good way to letter it? How long will it take to switch, cause I've only done 4 attempts.
> 
> U layer for example:
> Old:
> ...


I use your "new" lettering scheme, but I picked that scheme when I started 4BLD because it is the same as what my 3x3 BLD was.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Oct 29, 2012)

Mikel said:


> I use your "new" lettering scheme, but I picked that scheme when I started 4BLD because it is the same as what my 3x3 BLD was.



I did this too, I never looked up a letter scheme for wings, I just adapted one from my 3x3 edges in the natural way so I wouldn't get confused. X centres follow corner letters, + centres follow edges, and I'm still debating how to do obliques but they will follow one or the other (so far I've made them use my corner letters).


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## HEART (Oct 29, 2012)

What where your first few 4BLD times? Most of my 4BLD times are around 17 minutes, my initial goal is to get to 10 minutes


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## Ickathu (Oct 30, 2012)

HEART said:


> What where your first few 4BLD times? Most of my 4BLD times are around 17 minutes, my initial goal is to get to 10 minutes



36, 42, 32, 28, and imma try another in just a minute.


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## HEART (Oct 30, 2012)

Wow, then my 4BLD times are fairly good for someone who's just started, yet still hasn't gotten a success  at this rate my 5BLD whenever i attempt it should be <30 minutes.

Are comes or U2 faster for centers? I want to use the fastest method possible for centers right now, i'm going to hold off on comm edges in big cubes.


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## JasonK (Oct 30, 2012)

HEART said:


> Wow, then my 4BLD times are fairly good for someone who's just started, yet still hasn't gotten a success  at this rate my 5BLD whenever i attempt it should be <30 minutes.
> 
> Are comes or U2 faster for centers? I want to use the fastest method possible for centers right now, i'm going to hold off on comm edges in big cubes.



I've been similar I guess, I still don't have a success but my first timed attempt was 17 mins, and they range between 11 and 15 now.

If you can do them comfortably, comms are always going to be faster because of how many moves you save. U2 would be faster if you're having to think for ages about how to do the comm.


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## ben1996123 (Oct 30, 2012)

2x2, 3x3, 4x4 centers, stupideasystuff like floppycube, clock.


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## CHJ (Oct 30, 2012)

5BLD, i wont go any further unless it becomes official. As for 4 and 5 im about 8 minutes and 26 minutes


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## Mikel (Oct 30, 2012)

HEART said:


> What where your first few 4BLD times? Most of my 4BLD times are around 17 minutes, my initial goal is to get to 10 minutes


First one was ~38 minutes. My best success now is 14:41, but I could probably get around 11-12. I usually just do 5x5 BLD instead.


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## DrKorbin (Oct 30, 2012)

HEART said:


> What where your first few 4BLD times? Most of my 4BLD times are around 17 minutes, my initial goal is to get to 10 minutes



45 minutes. Now I'm reading that other's first times were 17-20-25 minutes, and it surprises me :confused:


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## HEART (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm sure edges are the hardest part to memo, but easiest to execute. Unless you already know BH or comms from other BLD solving, centers are pretty obnoxious to wrap your head around, but easy to memo. I need to work on my edges more, it really sucks when you mess up a solve because you miss memo'd one pair of edges, and at the end you only have 4 edges competely flipped like my last.

My DF and FL edge pairs where flipped :C


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## JianhanC (Oct 30, 2012)

Ville learnt 5BLD before 4BLD. Chuck (WicakTP04, yt channel) has a great tutorial on center comms but it's in Indonesian. Also, I find that knowing just the Pure Comms in BH helps immensely.


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## Ickathu (Oct 30, 2012)

My 4bld attempt last night was 25:11. Definitely getting faster. It could have been sub 25, maybe sub24, but my dad came in and decided to have a conversation with me even though he knew I was busy and couldn't really talk. I got all my centers this time, and was only off by a 3 edge cycle and 2 swapped edge pieces like a flipped 3x3 edge. I'm gonna review the scramble later (but I think I might have scrambled wrong) and see what I did.


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## Cubenovice (Oct 30, 2012)

I do not know my # of attempts to a first solve but here are my times of my first successes:

2 BLD: 20:45.22 LOL, I just didn't have a clue about memo systems and it was at the end of a very long day (flying into the US)
3 BLD: still searching
4 BLD: 33:43.99


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## kinch2002 (Oct 30, 2012)

3BLD: Sometime 2009.
4BLD: 29/12/09 (1st attempt 33 minutes)
5BLD: 01/01/10 (1st attempt 1:15 maybe)
6+7BLD Sometime 2010 I think.
Other events done bld: Clock, Pyra, Sq-1 from cubeshape, domino, 2x2, 3x3x4, feet, OH, mirror blocks


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## NevinsCPH (Oct 31, 2012)

HEART said:


> What where your first few 4BLD times? Most of my 4BLD times are around 17 minutes, my initial goal is to get to 10 minutes



My first 4BLD time is around the range as yours, 15~17minutes. Tho before I actually do full attempt, I did quite a lot of sighted solves(to get comfort with setup moves and parity), then a lot of center BLD, wings BLD individually. Eventually, my memory capacity allows me to memo both and corner then I started my first attempt. However I did has a lot of DNFs at the beginning dealing with parity. Where I did PLL parity before solving center, thus messing up center most of the time. My current 4BLD time range from 7minutes to 9minutes.

My first 5BLD time is around 36minutes DNF, first success for 5BLD was 28minutes, now my 5BLD time range between 17minutes to 24minutes.


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## JianhanC (Oct 31, 2012)

NevinsCPH said:


> My first 4BLD time is around the range as yours, 15~17minutes. Tho before I actually do full attempt, I did quite a lot of sighted solves(to get comfort with setup moves and parity), then a lot of center BLD, wings BLD individually. Eventually, my memory capacity allows me to memo both and corner then I started my first attempt. However I did has a lot of DNFs at the beginning dealing with parity. Where I did PLL parity before solving center, thus messing up center most of the time. My current 4BLD time range from 7minutes to 9minutes.
> 
> My first 5BLD time is around 36minutes DNF, first success for 5BLD was 28minutes, now my 5BLD time range between 17minutes to 24minutes.



You either improved really fast or you are a natural in BLD O__O


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## HEART (Oct 31, 2012)

Odd my memo is appearently at "natural BLD'er" level, but my execution is the level of a scrub :C Takes me like 2-3 mins for centers, and like 7-9 for edges.


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