# 2x2 - Seeing the whole solve during inspection?



## watermelon (Dec 2, 2008)

While there have been many threads on 2x2 methods in the past, I'm not sure if this particular topic has been discussed before.

A lot of the more advanced 2x2 methods lend themselves to seeing all but the last step of the solve during inspection, but do any of the current 2x2 methods allow for consistently seeing the entire solve during inspection? If not, can anyone propose such a method? Even if the algorithm count is quite large, 2x2 algorithms are generally pretty short, and being able to see the whole solve during inspection would be worth it in my opinion.


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## fanwuq (Dec 2, 2008)

I don't know of any, but EG seems the closest it gets. 
Similarly, I'm trying to do this with Pyraminx, that method is just like EG.


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## DavidWoner (Dec 2, 2008)

well theres DOTS. i dont quite remember what I made it stand for but its basically a cross between OFOTA and EG. I think the alg count was like 1480 or something like that. oh yeah now I remember, I think it was David's Opposite Then Solve, because you make an OFOTA style 1st face, then solve the cube. since OFOTA first face is 0-1 moves, you should be able to predict the entire solve, although case recognition would still be difficult in 15 seconds. I'll go find the alg count...

I think SS has the potential to be a 1-looker if you learn how all of the SS algs affect permutation.


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## watermelon (Dec 2, 2008)

1480 algorithms, or even 1000+ seems a little unreasonable. Perhaps the key to seeing the whole solve isn't necessarily learning an inordinate amount of algorithms, but instead improving your speed BLD skills.


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## DavidWoner (Dec 2, 2008)

watermelon said:


> 1480 algorithms, or even 1000+ seems a little unreasonable. Perhaps the key to seeing the whole solve isn't necessarily learning an inordinate amount of algorithms, but instead improving your speed BLD skills.



yeah its actually 3132 algs. I came up with the idea just to be ridiculous.

really any of the 2 step methods can become 1-look if you learn how the algs affect permutation.

I place both OFOTA and SS in the same category for this purpose, since they are 0-1 moves, orientation alg, PBL. for these you just learn how the algs affect permutation, then you should be able to figure out the whole solve.

EG(and possibly CLL) are different here, since there are 4 or more *random* moves, you would have to learn some sort of method to accurately predict cases.

I think in terms of difficulty for predicting PBL it goes EG<SS/OFOTA<CLL<other methods

I'm not sure about G-FASSST, although I am assuming that you should also be able to predict PBL with this method. We'll have to ask Phil.


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## joey (Dec 2, 2008)

I guess, you could just practice speed BLD a bit. Like, taking as long as necessary to solve the whole cube in your head. I guess after a while, you would start seeing it naturally.. (for 2x2)


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## Faz (Dec 2, 2008)

sometimes i predict OLL with Ortega, but thats as far as it gets, only with a first step skip - eg; face, layer, orient, can i predict the whole solve.


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## MistArts (Dec 2, 2008)

I was just going to post this...

I can see the first face plus the permutation and the OLL using Ortega in around 6 seconds. If I practiced, I can probably predict the permutation of the last layer (and knowing how each OLL permutes or go with EG.)

Mitchell, what method do you used?


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## Swordsman Kirby (Dec 3, 2008)

I only see to the PBL of the bottom layer.


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## cuBerBruce (Dec 3, 2008)

Vault312 said:


> well theres DOTS. i dont quite remember what I made it stand for but its basically a cross between OFOTA and EG. I think the alg count was like 1480 or something like that. oh yeah now I remember, I think it was David's Opposite Then Solve, because you make an OFOTA style 1st face, then solve the cube. *since OFOTA first face is 0-1 moves,* you should be able to predict the entire solve, although case recognition would still be difficult in 15 seconds. I'll go find the alg count...
> 
> I think SS has the potential to be a 1-looker if you learn how all of the SS algs affect permutation.



Huh? I think OFOTA first face is 0-3 moves. Try this scramble:

U' R2 F' R U F' R U2


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## Swordsman Kirby (Dec 3, 2008)

cuBerBruce said:


> Vault312 said:
> 
> 
> > well theres DOTS. i dont quite remember what I made it stand for but its basically a cross between OFOTA and EG. I think the alg count was like 1480 or something like that. oh yeah now I remember, I think it was David's Opposite Then Solve, because you make an OFOTA style 1st face, then solve the cube. *since OFOTA first face is 0-1 moves,* you should be able to predict the entire solve, although case recognition would still be difficult in 15 seconds. I'll go find the alg count...
> ...



The average for OFOTA should be 1.xx moves. It's certainly not 0-1 moves all the time.


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## Erik (Dec 3, 2008)

cuBerBruce said:


> Huh? I think OFOTA first face is 0-3 moves. Try this scramble:
> 
> U' R2 F' R U F' R U2



So? A cuber with a BIT of knowledge sees that you can do the first 2 steps of ofota in 4 moves here straight... (x U'L'U'L)


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## cuBerBruce (Dec 4, 2008)

Erik said:


> cuBerBruce said:
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> > Huh? I think OFOTA first face is 0-3 moves. Try this scramble:
> ...



Well, the scramble I gave if for one of over 23000 positions that I believe exist that require 3 moves to complete a face of opposite colors.

If my computer analysis is correct, the distribution of positions requiring 0, 1, 2, and 3 moves is:


```
0 moves:    699984
1 move:    2189088
2 moves:    762048
3 moves:     23040
```

This implies an average of about 1.0294 moves are required. Over 21% of positions require 2 or more moves.


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## Erik (Dec 4, 2008)

Haha that's so cool because my claim that it was one move on average was just based on a few tries. Anyway, if you want to use OFOTA and it's more than 1 move just use a different method for that solve...


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## palmcubes (Aug 9, 2010)

*ortega*

if your good you can predict bottom permuation and top orientation 
then look at top permutation and use two gen algs to orient and pbl will be perdictid


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## Shortey (Aug 9, 2010)

wtf


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## uberCuber (Aug 9, 2010)

palmcubes do you realize this thread is from 2008? :fp


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## Edward (Aug 9, 2010)

Well maybe it would be a good bump if we could understand what he/she was talking about D:


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## cincyaviation (Aug 9, 2010)

Edward said:


> Well maybe it would be a good bump if we could understand what he/she was talking about D:



I can, if you use 2 gen algs to orient the top face, the corners will remain in the same permutation, so you could predict where the block would be, combine this with knowing your 1st face permutation, and you get a 1 look solve.


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## TheMachanga (Aug 9, 2010)




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## iasimp1997 (Aug 9, 2010)

palmcubes said:


> if your good you can predict bottom permuation and top orientation
> then look at top permutation and use two gen algs to orient and pbl will be perdictid



:fp
Dude, this thread is from two years ago.


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## maggotcuber (Aug 12, 2010)

iasimp1997 said:


> palmcubes said:
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> > if your good you can predict bottom permuation and top orientation
> ...



so what if its from 2 years ago????? 

ive actually done this in a solve  i was doing ortega and han an easy face and i saw the i would have a sune case and i knew sune makes a diagnol swap so i predicted the pbl. 3.25 solve, i average like 7-ish


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## joey (Aug 12, 2010)

maggotcuber said:


> i knew sune makes a diagnol swap


>_>


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## maggotcuber (Aug 12, 2010)

joey said:


> maggotcuber said:
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> > i knew sune makes a diagnol swap
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the sune case i use. i dont know cll so thats how i went by it


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## cincyaviation (Aug 12, 2010)

maggotcuber said:


> joey said:
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Who the heck uses something other than sune for sune?


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## maggotcuber (Aug 12, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> maggotcuber said:
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when your using cll theres a few sune cases


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## ben1996123 (Aug 12, 2010)

maggotcuber said:


> cincyaviation said:
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...


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## maggotcuber (Aug 12, 2010)

ben1996123 said:


> maggotcuber said:
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im just proving the point that when orienting corners, there are other algorithms for the same case


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## cincyaviation (Aug 12, 2010)

maggotcuber said:


> ben1996123 said:
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None that are considerably faster than sune...


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## JeffDelucia (Aug 12, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> maggotcuber said:
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I think nikklas is faster than sune for me.


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## cincyaviation (Aug 12, 2010)

JeffDelucia said:


> cincyaviation said:
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Yet that can't be the one he was talking about.


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## Shortey (Aug 12, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> JeffDelucia said:
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I hope I'm not the only who sees where this is going.


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## maggotcuber (Aug 13, 2010)

Morten said:


> cincyaviation said:
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the point is that saw the solve during the inspectioin the algorithms used i dont matter


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## cincyaviation (Aug 13, 2010)

maggotcuber said:


> Morten said:
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They do if you care about being fast enough for seeing the whole solve in inspection to matter.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 13, 2010)

Seriously, is what algorithm he used that important?


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## cincyaviation (Aug 13, 2010)

hawkmp4 said:


> Seriously, is what algorithm he used that important?


yuh huh


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## maggotcuber (Aug 13, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> hawkmp4 said:
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> > Seriously, is what algorithm he used that important?
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:fp


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## Baian Liu (Aug 13, 2010)

Sune makes 2 diagonal swaps.


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## Innocence (Aug 13, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> maggotcuber said:
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Hey cool a quote tree can I join in?


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## Luigimamo (Aug 13, 2010)

Innocence said:


> cincyaviation said:
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Me too (Oh and Nikklas is just as fast as sune for me)


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## ben1996123 (Aug 13, 2010)

Luigimamo said:


> Innocence said:
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Yay for quote trees. My sune fails (0.70), antisune is good (0.45), anti-niklas is good (0.50), niklas is ok (0.60)


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## RyanReese09 (Aug 13, 2010)

OOO OOO ADD MEH PLZ.


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## CubesOfTheWorld (Aug 13, 2010)

ben1996123 said:


> Luigimamo said:
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Added to tree.

Not a lot of people can see a full ortega solve...

The post was too pointless for a 2 year bump.


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## ExoCorsair (Aug 13, 2010)

Way to make useless posts, guys.


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