# [Discussion] Is speedcubing a sport?



## Me (Sep 19, 2006)

Even though i'm american, for somereason i'm really anticipating the European Championships this weekend. During the Polish open i was impressed that they had a live scoring system, much like perhaps a soccer line up or such sports, even almost favoring ceratain cubers like certain soccer players.
So with that i couldnt help notice how much of truly similar to a sport it was.
So the true question though that i keep asking myself:
is speedcubing really a sport, or a pseudo like speed stacking? 
disscus....


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## KoenHeltzel (Sep 19, 2006)

Funny, I was talking with Ton Dennenbroek with this on the way back from the Polish Open. He said: "This time around it's not a hype, it's become a sport".

And it has, thanks to a bunch of very enthusiastic people in the scene who started sharing ideas over the internet and organizing meetings again (and this group keeps growing  )


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## sgowal (Sep 19, 2006)

Whether you can consider speed-cubing as a sport depends on the definition you want to give to "sport".

Some people consider something to be a sport as soon as there are competitions. Others might think that a sport is only something that requires a physical activity.

As for me, I do *not* consider chess to be a sport (not physical enough). So, it is quite tricky to answer to whether speed-cubing is a sport since it contains that additional physical activity...

If I had to choose, I would say that speed-cubing "has become a sport" thanks to the increasing number of competitions and interest that people manifest for it.

My two cents.


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## Erik (Sep 19, 2006)

I can't stop myself from posting this since I'm a chess player for 8 years...
What about lightningchess? It is almost like speedcubing, you have to be able to spot a lot of things is short time and make the move quick without knocking other pieces over. This is easier than speedcubing of course but still... 
Some people say Darts is a sport but Speedcubing isn't, but that makes totaly no sence to me. 
Well after all, maybe it is more importand that you think speedcubing is a sport for yourself than what others think...


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## sgowal (Sep 19, 2006)

I indeed haven't thought about lightningchess... maybe you can agree with me that regular chess isn't a sport, maybe not.

What I wanted to say it that this discussion is endless... if someone comes to me and says that speed-cubing isn't a sport I won't be able to argue with his definition of what a sport is!

By the way, we should do some chess sometime, I suck but I enjoy to play it.


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## pjk (Sep 20, 2006)

I agree that speedcubing is a sport. It is a talent that people have and then they compete. I think as they months and years go by, more people will become interested.

Erik, lightnigh chess, or I call it speed-chess, is also a sport in a way. That is always fun, playing those 1 minute games. BTW, I still want to play you. PM me a good time for you and a good place to play. Yahoo is what I usually use. Let me know.


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## chiperten (Sep 20, 2006)

I want in on some chess.... I have a yahoo ID..

but more on topic, we had a huge debate in my freshmen history class about what a sport is. My teacher seemed to categorize sports as a physical activity, like full body physical, that had someone physically opposing you and is capable of stopping you from reaching your goal. His definition ruled out any racing or board game. He replied to students saying "but swimming/racing/whatever are in the Olympics" with "I believe it is the Olympic Games." I kinda liked his definition and I feel that calling something a great activity or game or whatever doesn't take away from its dignity. And if you think about it, racing really doesn't have physical opposition. You are only racing a clock. According to this definition, which I prefer, I wouldn't call speedcubing a sport, nor would I call chess a sport but they are great activities.


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## pjk (Sep 20, 2006)

Well, I guess it just what you define as a sport.

As far as chess, send me a PM with the time you'd like to play, and we can play some.


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## Lotsofsloths (Dec 31, 2007)

*Is speedcubing a sport?*

Please state your answer and give a brief explanation.


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## andrewvo1324 (Dec 31, 2007)

DEFINITION:

an athletic *activity* requiring* skill* or *physical prowess* and often of a *competitive nature*, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

activity - cubing 
skill - remebering algorithms, turning the cube, looking ahead
physical - finger tricks
competive natures - wanting to get better then everyone else

So yes i think its a sport. =)


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## ExoCorsair (Dec 31, 2007)

You are going to get a biased result with this poll, given the people you are polling.


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## TimMc (Dec 31, 2007)

I'm inclined to say no. The amount of physical effort can be compared to playing any console game or PC game for that matter.

Tim.


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## Lotsofsloths (Dec 31, 2007)

> You are going to get a biased result with this poll, given the people you are polling.





> I'm inclined to say no. The amount of physical effort can be compared to playing any console game or PC game for that matter.
> 
> Tim.





> DEFINITION:
> 
> an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
> 
> ...


Exactly what I think.
Although, I think skill should involve twisting the cube, remembering algorithms, and looking ahead.


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## Lucas Garron (Dec 31, 2007)

*YES!*

Of course it is! More so than "sportstacking"...
I don't like it when people say it's not...

Hmm, is bowling a sport? Archery? Cricket?


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## qqwref (Dec 31, 2007)

Any definition of sport that involves golf or bowling (activities which are not that labor-intensive and don't require great physical strength to be good at) must also be open to possibilities of things like speedcubing. In fact, Wikipedia calls sport-stacking, curling, ballooning, angling, hamster racing, robot combat, MMO gaming, geocaching, arm wrestling, poker, solitaire, chess, the fifteen puzzle, and trading card games sports; I don't think anyone would claim that all of these require huge amounts of exertion on the part of the people playing them.

Basically, the amount of skill required in speedcubing (I'd like to see someone who hasn't spent more than a few weeks practicing get a sub-15 average...) and the competitive nature of it make it an obvious example of a sport, even if there are no teams, no coaches, and next to no physical exertion.


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## Lotsofsloths (Dec 31, 2007)

Well, I have to admit, doing the PLL time attack..OH must work the heck out of your muscles..in your fingers.


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## Dene (Dec 31, 2007)

Definitely a sport...


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## darkzelkova (Dec 31, 2007)

If _bridge_ is a sport, than so is this. And so is debate. They both meet all the requirements of a sport.

EDIT: They may not be recognized by the *Inter*National Olympic Committee, but I still think that they are.


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## Lotsofsloths (Dec 31, 2007)

we should make cubing recognized by the National Olympic Committee


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## Lucas Garron (Dec 31, 2007)

Skip "National"! Go straight to the IOC!

"Today, we bring you the famous 100m dash finals, followed by the most-anticipated event of these games: the 3x3x3 speedsolve finals! (With buffers like BLD to keep you awake and make you watch everything.)"


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## Jason Baum (Dec 31, 2007)

I think that anything that is competitive can be considered a sport. So yes, speed cubing is a sport in my book.


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## Lotsofsloths (Dec 31, 2007)

Anyone who can't solve a cube, would say no, anyone who can solve a cube, says yes. And theres no convincing each other which one to choose, they all have a solid opinon..

[off topic]Jason, do you know when the next eastern coast competition is going to be? My first competition, VA open, was a blast, and looking forward to another competition.[/off topic]


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## pjk (Dec 31, 2007)

Definitely. People call cheerleading a sport, then speedsolving sure as heck is.


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## cmhardw (Dec 31, 2007)

I think both sportstacking and speedcubing are sports. My reasons are that they are competitive, forcing you to strive to better yourself, and they both take a high degree of dexterity and a very large amount of practice to reach high levels.

Chris


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Dec 31, 2007)

Speedcubing is not a sport, how coult you compare it to something like hockey and bowling? speedstacks require more physical effort than cubing, sorry to say :]


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## badmephisto (Dec 31, 2007)

of course it is a sport. How can you compare it to hockey? You cant! It's like comparing apples and oranges, to use the overused analogy. Both oranges and apples are still fruits though!


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## TimMc (Dec 31, 2007)

I can't imagine it being viewed as a sport. No PE teacher at school would in their right mind give you the option of Speedcubing over playing Basketball or Rugby. It's more like an extracurricular activity that you'd find the Mathematical department hosting after school...

Given the broad understanding of Sport to be some kind of activity that involves a lot of sweat and exercise it'd be hard to call it a sport. Then again, there are many sports that are internationally recognised as such and don't required that much physical effort.

You could call it a sport, but I wouldn't expect any school to call it a sport 

Tim.


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## ExoCorsair (Dec 31, 2007)

I'm going to say no, because you cannot make a living off of it. *prepares for arguments against this*


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## Jason Baum (Dec 31, 2007)

Well, I think there are different kinds of sports. There are athletic sports (hockey, football, etc), mental sports (any type of memory sport), musical sports (DCI) and other kinds. The common factor in all of these is that they involve competition. Anything that is competitive can be a sport. Now, we are not athletes just because we cube competitively. But just because we're not athletes doesn't mean that what we do isn't a sport. There is a difference between sports and athletics.

This is just my opinion of course. When most people here the word sport they think hockey, baseball, basketball, football, soccer (the REAL football). I just think that the word sport is not limited to athletics.



Lotsofsloths said:


> [off topic]Jason, do you know when the next eastern coast competition is going to be? My first competition, VA open, was a blast, and looking forward to another competition.[/off topic]


I think there is going to be a competition in Atlanta sometime in March. Other than that, I'm really not sure. I'll definitely be there if it happens though!


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## Dyste (Dec 31, 2007)

I would have to agree. Well, there really isn't any professional league. No one represents anything but themselves. Although. their country of current residence is posted in the results. You definitely could not base your livelihood off of speedcubing because the prizes are usually not money-oriented. It's not a very lucrative activity.


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## Me (Dec 31, 2007)

Wow, ok there is a lot of double posting here.
http://www.speedsolving.com/showthread.php?p=3381&highlight=speedcubing+sport#post3381
sure its from last year pretty much but still


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## Me (Dec 31, 2007)

if people want to read more about this topic, except not in Poll form.
THE SEARCH TOOL IS THERE FOR A REASON!


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## badmephisto (Dec 31, 2007)

Dyste said:


> I would have to agree. Well, there really isn't any professional league. No one represents anything but themselves. Although. their country of current residence is posted in the results. You definitely could not base your livelihood off of speedcubing because the prizes are usually not money-oriented. It's not a very lucrative activity.



yes but that doesn't have too much to do with it being a sport or not. 
For example playing Starcraft here is a hobby at best, but in Korea it is broadcasted on TV just like any other sport, and there are huge money prices for it as well, so you can totally make a living out of it. So... is it sport now or not?
i don't know... tough question. I think post #2 explains pretty well though.


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## Lofty (Dec 31, 2007)

March! I can never learn full ZB to pass Rama/Gilles/Dzoans/CuTex/all the other fast people by then!
SC is an e-Sport. Savior ftw. I suppose I'm happy with a zerg player winning the OSL even if it wasn't him.
I voted yes, I think its been explained enough


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## ExoCorsair (Dec 31, 2007)

badmephisto said:


> For example playing Starcraft here is a hobby at best, but in Korea it is broadcasted on TV just like any other sport, and there are huge money prices for it as well, so you can totally make a living out of it. So... is it sport now or not?



You can go to those competitions if you are good enough; you're not limited by where you reside. I've seen pro (televised) games with European competitors against Koreans, and I believe there were a few very good Canadians at the game.

I guess the difference I'm arguing and what everyone else is is that I'm thinking of a professional sport. Which (in my mind), cubing is clearly not.


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## Erik (Dec 31, 2007)

this forum is not going to give you the most objective view on this subject....(at least when you want to know the average people's opinion)


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## Dyste (Dec 31, 2007)

Well, that wouldn't help either. As people have said, anyone who doesn't speedcube would have in mind the general idea of what a sport is, which is basically anything athletic. So there's really only 2 sides to this coin.


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## Sin-H (Dec 31, 2007)

andrewvo1324 said:


> DEFINITION:
> 
> an athletic *activity* requiring* skill* or *physical prowess* and often of a *competitive nature*, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
> 
> ...



and that's why I also say YES!


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## Dyste (Dec 31, 2007)

Well, this secondary definition from the dictionary from my word processor would support all those in favor of speedsolving being a sport.

2. pastime: an active pastime participated in for pleasure or exercise


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## Dene (Dec 31, 2007)

TimMc said:


> I can't imagine it being viewed as a sport. No PE teacher at school would in their right mind give you the option of Speedcubing over playing Basketball or *Rugby*. It's more like an extracurricular activity that you'd find the Mathematical department hosting after school...



Lol, I'm not sure how many people here would know of Rugby  .




ExoCorsair said:


> I'm going to say no, because you cannot make a living off of it. *prepares for arguments against this*



I think I mentioned somewhere else, if you were to host some tv show on the Rubik's cube or whatever, you could make a living off it....


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## Dyste (Dec 31, 2007)

That's really irrelevant. We're talking about competing for sustenance; not broadcasting.


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## AvGalen (Dec 31, 2007)

Yes, cubing is a sport as should be obvious from the definition.

It is not a professional sport (yet) and it doesn't require you to sweat, but that is not important in determining if something is a sport (this has been said 10 times before)

I think that on a day like Swedish Cube Day 2007 (12 hours of competition) you are probably using much more energy than on the 60m dash


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## Erik (Dec 31, 2007)

it's not necessary to sweat but at WC I was pretty sweaty myself....


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## slncuber21 (Dec 31, 2007)

i say yes because people compete to see who can move faster and IMO that counts as physical stuff, leading back to the def. of a sport.


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## Speedy McFastfast (Dec 31, 2007)

Yeah, the search is around, but I feel the need to post in here...

I personally do not consider speedcubing a sport. I, being a skateboarder, snowboarder, and free runner, have a very different opinion on what a sport is. There's not enough physical activity during speedcubing for it to be considered a sport, in my eyes.

But, like it's been said before, it all comes down to personal preference. I personally think it's cool how the European comps have live scores, although I myself have never seen it.


Speaking of Chess, where can I play it online? I want to learn how to play it (better than I can now, anyway) but I don't have anywhere to play it. Should I sign up with Yahoo?


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## Lotsofsloths (Dec 31, 2007)

Lets quote some Wikipedia..



> Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determiner of the outcome (winning or losing), but the term is also used to include activities such as mind sports and motor sports where mental acuity or equipment quality are major factors.



Now, for anyone who can read, obviously speedcubing falls under all of these.


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## ExoCorsair (Dec 31, 2007)

Lotsofsloths said:


> Lets quote some Wikipedia..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Firstly you really shouldn't use Wikipedia for a definition. But let's go by it anyway.

I write haikus. A Haiku has a strict format (set of rules), and I can submit one to poetry contests (competitions). Oh, and I write with a pen, which is obviously physical activity. Does that make writing haiku (or poetry or all writing) a sport?


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## brad711 (Dec 31, 2007)

Rubik's Cubing is a sport just as Marching Band and Drum Corps are- you move and you compete.


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## keemy (Dec 31, 2007)

i think it can be considered a sport depending on how you treat it yourself.

and actualy its pretty funny my PE teacher let me do my reports about speedcubing (history and rules, then the second one favorite athlete)


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## Lotsofsloths (Dec 31, 2007)

lol thats awesome


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## Leo (Jan 1, 2008)

As quoted from Dictionary.com - "an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc."

As you can see it is not just under physical prowess, but also can be considered a sport through requiring skill. Now if I was being asked "Is speedcubing considered a physical sport or a physical activity?" Then I would say no.


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## Jilvin (Jan 1, 2008)

By definition, speedcubing is certainly a sport.


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## HelloiamChow (Jan 1, 2008)

I decide if it's a sport or not on whether it shows up on ESPN

Just kidding

Ultimately, no definition matters as much as your own. There are no definite rules to deciding whether something is a sport or not. As for me, I don't think speedcubing is a sport. Each scramble doesn't pose a different enough challenge. Of course they're all different, but you go into every scramble with the same exact plan. (For fridrich solvers) Cross, F2L, OLL, PLL. It works everytime. In sports like soccer and football, you can't expect to score everytime on the same play(unless you're the Patriots). 

Of course the glaring hole in my argument, would be that of Track and Fied, and Swimming where the whole point is to run/swim faster than everyone. To that I say in my book, to be a sport, it needs to be physically demanding, and pose a different challeneg everytime.


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## AvGalen (Jan 1, 2008)

So fewest moves would be a sport?


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## Lotsofsloths (Jan 1, 2008)

> In sports like soccer and football, you can't expect to score everytime on the same play(unless you're the Patriots).


Lol.



> So fewest moves would be a sport?


Thats a tough one..
Speedcubing requires tons of dexterity, but in fewest moves, your just thinking really far ahead..


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## Mátyás Kuti(shaipo) (Jan 1, 2008)

If chess is a sport, speedcubing is a sport too.


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## Shadet (Jan 1, 2008)

YES !
My teacher said that speedcubing is like domino , because i,m doing only hand-moves and no thinking like domino O_O


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## David Pritts (Jan 2, 2008)

There are different definitions of sports; there is no official definition.

Therefore cubing is both a sport and a non-sport. 

Personally I'd say it's not. However, part of me feels that all the arguments AGAINST speedcubing being a sport are simply a result of the fact that speedcubing is less popular, understood, and appreciated. If speedcubing were as popular as golf, we might see just as many people calling speedcubing a sport as there are calling golf a sport (which is a lot).

David


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## Hakan (May 8, 2009)

Cubing is definitely a sport.

Maybe not a heavy physical sport, but rather a think sport.
It's all in the brains.


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## irontwig (May 8, 2009)

> So fewest moves would be a sport?


Thats a tough one..
Speedcubing requires tons of dexterity, but in fewest moves, your just thinking really far ahead..[/QUOTE]

"Tons" is certainly an overstatement, since one can reach world class within a few years, and in FMC, atleast for me it isn't about thinking really far ahead, it's more about getting lucky.


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## Nukoca (May 8, 2009)

I think it's more like a hobby.


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## deadalnix (May 8, 2009)

One thing is missing to consider speedcubing as a sport : a federation. But anyway, all the other requirements are filled.


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## ajmorgan25 (May 8, 2009)

With the word "sport" becoming more and more flexible everyday, I like to define the word sport as "any activity requiring _physical_ activity with a competitive atmosphere within it."


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## Jhong253 (May 8, 2009)

This is a tough one. I don't want to call cubing a sport yet -- it doesn't have that level of respect outside of cubing community (not yet anyway).

If I ask a bunch of people who do not know how to cube, they all say cubing is definitely not a sport. Until some of those people start agreeing...


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## d4m4s74 (May 8, 2009)

I'd call it a sport, it fits in the definition of sport
Cubing on itself isn't a sport, but when speed, competitiveness, etc. comes to play (speedcubing) it is


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## soccerking813 (May 8, 2009)

No, I don't think that speedcubing has reached the level of being called a sports yet. Some people quoted the dictionary.com definition of a sport, and said it fit all of the criteria. But you were missing one word. It says, "an *athletic* activity." The best definition of athletic that I could find was, "Of or pertaining to athletes or to the exercises practiced by them; as, athletic games or sports." So we as speedcubers would be considered athletes because we speedsolve, which is not true.

Also, I think that a sport is something that should take many many years to get really good at. There have been people who started cubing, and in 3 or 4 months average sub-20.

And lastly, I think a sport is something that the majority of a population believe is a sport. The majority of people would not believe speedcubing is a sport, so in my definition, it is not a sport.

It all boils down to your own opinions.


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## That70sShowDude (May 8, 2009)

not all sports have _athletic_ traits in them, take fishing, any fat guy could sit on his butt and fish, not much athleticism there, reeling in a fish shows no athletic ability at all

if they call stacking cups, sport stacking, speed cubing could just as easily be called sport cubing


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## d4m4s74 (May 8, 2009)

I asked a non-cuber what he thinks

he says "just like Chess and Sudoku thinking "games" are not sports"

edit:

from non-cubers I now have one no and 2 yesses


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## qqwref (May 8, 2009)

soccerking813 said:


> Also, I think that a sport is something that should take many many years to get really good at. There have been people who started cubing, and in 3 or 4 months average sub-20.



Sub-20 isn't that good, though. Assuming that the best cubers can get averages of around 11 seconds, a sub-20 average would be like running a 100-meter sprint in under 17.5 seconds. Not all that impressive compared to people who are really good at it, and definitely not world-class. Still, there ARE a few people who reach 11-12 seconds very fast (in 6 months or a year), but I think for most people it takes a few years to get really good.

Don't forget that cubing is still in its infancy, even if it doesn't feel like it. Perhaps in 20 years, when the fastest people are quite a bit faster, it WILL take several years to reach the top. So, just like how someone else said you need a federation to be a sport, don't say that speedcubing itself is not a sport just because people have not done it for long enough to establish incredible world-class times and a high level of organization. We haven't even been around long enough yet to have retired cubers getting paid to coach beginners! Just imagine what it will be like in 20 or 50 years.


PS: Wikipedia calls speedcubing a sport, but it does put it under the "mind sports" category along with competitive gaming and board games. On the other hand the first line of the "sport" article says "Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."

PPS: Goddammit, I've looked at the word "sport" so many times that my brain is saying "that's not a real word Michael". **** you, English.


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## luke1984 (May 8, 2009)

If chess is considered a (thinking)sport than I see no reason why speedcubing shouldn't be.


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## ConnorCuber (May 9, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> So fewest moves would be a sport?



Just as much as Chess is.


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## holypasta (May 9, 2009)

i'm amazed by the amount of people who answered no.


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## Daniel Wu (May 9, 2009)

That70sShowDude said:


> not all sports have _athletic_ traits in them, take fishing, any fat guy could sit on his butt and fish, not much athleticism there, reeling in a fish shows no athletic ability at all
> 
> if they call stacking cups, sport stacking, speed cubing could just as easily be called sport cubing



Agreed 100%. But the only problem is that no one other than people who speedcube actually get what it is. Most people understand fishing.


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## Lord Voldemort (May 9, 2009)

That70sShowDude said:


> not all sports have _athletic_ traits in them, take fishing, any fat guy could sit on his butt and fish, not much athleticism there, reeling in a fish shows no athletic ability at all
> 
> if they call stacking cups, sport stacking, speed cubing could just as easily be called sport cubing



I wouldn't say so.
But it's more than just a hobby, that's for sure.



luke1984 said:


> If chess is considered a (thinking)sport than I see no reason why speedcubing shouldn't be.



Chess requires much more actual thinking than speedcubing though.
After a while, your hands almost automatically execute everything for you.
Grandmasters can sometimes take half an hour or more for a move.


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## Cloud_9ine (May 9, 2009)

soccerking813 said:


> No, I don't think that speedcubing has reached the level of being called a sports yet. Some people quoted the dictionary.com definition of a sport, and said it fit all of the criteria. But you were missing one word. It says, "an *athletic* activity." The best definition of athletic that I could find was, "Of or pertaining to athletes or to the exercises practiced by them; as, athletic games or sports."





> an athletic activity requiring skill *or* physical prowess and often of a competitive nature



No one pick up on the or?


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## ender9994 (May 9, 2009)

It is definitely a sport according to the almighty "list of sports" on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports#Speedcubing


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## Lord Voldemort (May 9, 2009)

And here's the quote right above that:
"Requiring little or no physical exertion or agility mind sports are *often not considered true sports*. Some mind sports are recognised by sporting federations. The following list is intended to represent anything that is likely to be referred to as a mind sport, not to argue their validity as sports."


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## Thieflordz5 (May 9, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Any definition of sport that involves golf or bowling (activities which are not that labor-intensive and don't require great physical strength to be good at) must also be open to possibilities of things like speedcubing. In fact, Wikipedia calls sport-stacking, curling, ballooning, angling, hamster racing, robot combat, MMO gaming, geocaching, arm wrestling, poker, solitaire, chess, the fifteen puzzle, and trading card games sports; I don't think anyone would claim that all of these require huge amounts of exertion on the part of the people playing them.
> 
> Basically, the amount of skill required in speedcubing (I'd like to see someone who hasn't spent more than a few weeks practicing get a sub-15 average...) and the competitive nature of it make it an obvious example of a sport, even if there are no teams, no coaches, and next to no physical exertion.




I voted no, because as a sports nerd (or so I'm called...) cubing doesn't really require as many muscles or as much muscle power to do...
But if sport-stacking and all that other crap are considered "sports" than cubing is a definite YES!!!


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## qqwref (May 9, 2009)

Thieflordz5 said:


> I voted no, because as a sports nerd (or so I'm called...) cubing doesn't really require as many muscles or as much muscle power to do...
> But if sport-stacking and all that other crap are considered "sports" than cubing is a definite YES!!!



Careful. Cubing requires more muscles than many sports (because of the huge number of muscles in our hands, as opposed to a few per leg), they're just smaller muscles and they have to put out less work. I do agree that cubing requires less *muscle power* than many other sports; however, there are comparatively few sports where a large amount of raw power is the goal or even necessary (for instance, powerlifting), and in fact there are many actual sports which don't require a high level of physical strength/exertion at all on the part of the athlete. Examples: archery/shooting, any kind of motor vehicle racing, bocce, bowling, billiards, any kind of equine sports, fishing, skydiving.

Sure, many of these sports require some physical ability, but it's nothing beyond what an average person could do with minimal training, and skill is a more important determining factor to success than physical strength or endurance. I think cubing falls into this category. It does require some physical strength - I think few people have the finger strength/speed necessary to get sub-12 times without a lot of practice - but not a huge amount. The most important thing is skill - knowing what to do and being able to recognize situations quickly and react to them. I'm beginning to think that maybe chess is a terrible analogy to cubing.


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## toast (May 9, 2009)

ender9994 said:


> It is definitely a sport according to the almighty "list of sports" on Wikipedia.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports#Speedcubing



It's own category!


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## Stefan (May 9, 2009)

Carrot!...


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## Lord Voldemort (May 9, 2009)

qqwref said:


> chess is a terrible analogy to cubing.



Yeah. Unless you're talking about Bullet chess or something.


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## d4m4s74 (May 9, 2009)

ender9994 said:


> It is definitely a sport according to the almighty "list of sports" on Wikipedia.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports#Speedcubing


nice IP
67.142.162.27


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## luke1984 (May 9, 2009)

Lord Voldemort said:


> That70sShowDude said:
> 
> 
> > not all sports have _athletic_ traits in them, take fishing, any fat guy could sit on his butt and fish, not much athleticism there, reeling in a fish shows no athletic ability at all
> ...



Agreed, but it was just an example. What I meant was that sport doesn't always necessarily involve physical labour. Speedcubing, of course, does involve finger dexterity, but it is, in my opinion, mostly a product of logic and memory.


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## Ellis (May 9, 2009)

Whoever just added that 2x2 to 7x7 on wikipedia is dumb.


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## JTW2007 (May 9, 2009)

andrewvo1324 said:


> DEFINITION:
> 
> an athletic *activity* requiring* skill* or *physical prowess* and often of a *competitive nature*, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
> 
> ...





andrewvo1324 said:


> DEFINITION:
> 
> an *athletic* activity



Hmmm... I voted no. 

If speedcubing is a sport, so is cup stacking. Speedcubing is an intellectual hobby/entertainment device that does have physical aspects of coordination and timing involved, but that doesn't qualify it as a sport.


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## Deleted member 2864 (May 9, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Any definition of sport that involves golf or bowling (activities which are not that labor-intensive and don't require great physical strength to be good at) must also be open to possibilities of things like speedcubing. In fact, Wikipedia calls sport-stacking, curling, ballooning, angling, hamster racing, robot combat, MMO gaming, geocaching, arm wrestling, poker, solitaire, chess, the fifteen puzzle, and trading card games sports; I don't think anyone would claim that all of these require huge amounts of exertion on the part of the people playing them.
> 
> Basically, the amount of skill required in speedcubing (I'd like to see someone who hasn't spent more than a few weeks practicing get a sub-15 average...) and the competitive nature of it make it an obvious example of a sport, even if there are no teams, no coaches, and next to no physical exertion.



Ahem... I'm an avid golfer and it's many people's ideas that golf doesn't take very much energy at all. i play golf twice a week and it's not like it takes no labor when you walk 18 holes with weight on your back (and somewhat slopy here in ohio). 


But to answer the real question, yes, it is a sport that many believe it's not. Though you're not neccesarily sweating just by turning the cube, it is competitive and does in fact, take tons of skill.


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## qqwref (May 10, 2009)

aznmortalx said:


> Ahem... I'm an avid golfer and it's many people's ideas that golf doesn't take very much energy at all. i play golf twice a week and it's not like it takes no labor when you walk 18 holes with weight on your back (and somewhat slopy here in ohio).



Permit me to disagree. The reason is that the walking around does not have anything to do with the sport ITSELF. Being better at walking around will not make you better at golf - your skill in golf is measured only by your ability to hit the ball the right way, which does not require much energy at all. Basically what I am saying is that you are putting the work in of your own accord, and not because the work IS the sport. (If you're willing to pay a bit more, you could always get a caddy and/or golf cart, and thus do much less work, whereas in a sport like basketball there is no way to get out of running around the court without being much less skillful.) Saying golf takes a lot of energy because you have to walk from hole to hole is like saying cubing takes a lot of energy because you have to get up on stage for each solve at a competition.


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## Deleted member 2864 (May 10, 2009)

qqwref said:


> aznmortalx said:
> 
> 
> > Ahem... I'm an avid golfer and it's many people's ideas that golf doesn't take very much energy at all. i play golf twice a week and it's not like it takes no labor when you walk 18 holes with weight on your back (and somewhat slopy here in ohio).
> ...



hmm... I can't disagree with you on the first part... you're right, the walk has nothing to do with your game. But it's not like golf takes no energy when hitting. For one part, it take a heck of a lot more than doing a T perm >.< but as for the caddy/cart, maybe some people do that, but it:

1. wastes your money
2. only proves you're lazy
3. if you get a caddy, that is often pretty pricy
4. you have to deal with a bad caddy's terrible ideas 



Edit: i think in retrospect i got a little carried away because i'm a hypocrite for some of those...


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## eastamazonantidote (May 12, 2009)

I define a sport as involving some sort of athletic talent: running, jumping, throwing (the ancient definitions of sport), as well as flexibility. Finger turning falls under none of these categories.

However, that doesn't go to say that it isn't difficult. Speedcubing is like getting really good a Super Smash Bros: it takes skill, time, and quick thinking, but there is no way one could consider it a sport.

Some other common non-sports I can think of:
Poker: no physical prowess needed, despite being on ESPN
Golf: it's a GAME, not a sport, despite being on ESPN
NASCAR: the only true difficulty I see is holding in your bowels for that long

While these activities may require skill (driving a car can be harder than it looks), they are not sports by any stretch of the imagination (well, my imagination). Golf is a game: a sport should leave your body spent by the time your 40 (if you play professionally). Poker requires no physical ability other than the poker face and the ability to stay put for so long. While some have a talent for non-sports and you can get better at these non-sports, it does not make it a sport. Hell, I have an extraordinary talent for wolfing down pounds of food, but that doesn't make it a sport, nor does the fact that I can get better at eating gargantuan portions.

No, speedcubing is not a sport, but rather a competitive puzzle solving community.


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## somerandomkidmike (May 14, 2009)

andrewvo1324 said:


> DEFINITION:
> 
> an athletic *activity* requiring* skill* or *physical prowess* and often of a *competitive nature*, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
> 
> ...



I was going to say no until I saw this.


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## bamman1108 (May 14, 2009)

It's not a sport the way most people use the term. It is a sport, however, in a similar way to how gaming, billiards, and, yes, speedstacking are sports.


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## Odin (May 14, 2009)

I say yes. "an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc."

I just cant wait until speed solving gets a T.V. show on ESPN !


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## bamman1108 (May 14, 2009)

somerandomkidmike said:


> andrewvo1324 said:
> 
> 
> > DEFINITION:
> ...



Really? I could've sworn skill was involved in cubing.


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## Deleted member 2864 (May 14, 2009)

eastamazonantidote said:


> I define a sport as involving some sort of athletic talent: running, jumping, throwing (the ancient definitions of sport), as well as flexibility. Finger turning falls under none of these categories.
> 
> However, that doesn't go to say that it isn't difficult. Speedcubing is like getting really good a Super Smash Bros: it takes skill, time, and quick thinking, but there is no way one could consider it a sport.
> 
> ...



but golf requires flexibility! It's not a walk in the park on comfortability for most to get an 85° shoulder turn, 16° waist, swing plane on right spot, whilst making sure not to fall back on impact. What is your def of "wasted?" You can play baseball at 40 if you wanted to and are you implying that a sport can't last you past 40? Even if you still play past 40, it's still the same sport. You throw, catch, swing, etc. still. Or are you implying that 40+ year olds who were pro are lazy bums who can't play a sport? 
Yes, Im stubbornly debatin


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## Hadley4000 (May 14, 2009)

eastamazonantidote said:


> Some other common non-sports I can think of:
> Poker: no physical prowess needed, despite being on ESPN
> Golf: it's a GAME, not a sport, despite being on ESPN
> NASCAR: the only true difficulty I see is holding in your bowels for that long




Poker. Agreed.

Golf. A sport. It takes a lot of physical effort. The countless hours of training, plus the tournaments themselves take a ton of work. Look at Tiger, he is absolutely ripped, and that upper body strength helps him a lot.

NASCAR. Though I do not consider it a sport, there is a lot more to it. It is a very exhausting activity, and it is ot uncommon for a driver to lose up to 10 pounds of water weight due to sweat.


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## soccerking813 (May 14, 2009)

bamman1108 said:


> DEFINITION:
> 
> an athletic *activity* requiring* skill* or *physical prowess* and often of a *competitive nature*, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
> 
> ...



You guys keep missing one of the things a sport needs (according to this definition).



bamman1108 said:


> DEFINITION:
> 
> an *athletic* *activity* requiring* skill* or *physical prowess* and often of a *competitive nature*, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
> 
> ...



And cubing is not an athletic activity.


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## JTW2007 (May 14, 2009)

Yep. I agree.


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## blgentry (May 14, 2009)

This whole debate boils down to "what is a sport?"

Rather than try to define it (which you can find many different opinions on), I'll just ask this to anyone that wants to answer: Why do you care if cubing falls into some definition of "a sport"? Are you going to try to compare your cubing skill to a football player or something?

It's a challenging activity that we all enjoy. Some compete against each other. Some only compete against themselves.

Anything else is just labels, semantics, or word games.

Brian.


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## JTW2007 (May 15, 2009)

blgentry said:


> It's a challenging activity that we all enjoy. Some compete against each other. Some only compete against themselves.
> 
> Anything else is just labels, semantics, or word games.



Yes.


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## Deleted member 2864 (May 17, 2009)

Hadley4000 said:


> eastamazonantidote said:
> 
> 
> > Some other common non-sports I can think of:
> ...



AHA! Thank you! Exactly what I was thinking, it took me 7 months to muster up a decent swing at the age of 9. I only started playing 8 months in and that took a lot of work for a 9 year old to obtain the balance, skill, and mental shape to be able to play. Golf not only is physical, but mental. Even today, I get really mad at a slice and end up screwing up the whole hole because I dwell. 
People who don't play say, "well, you hit this tiny ball that ways barely anything, make the green, put, and hooray! You got a par! Big deal!" but that's only half of it. What do you do if you slice, hook, top, or hit it fat? Can you move on or get pissed and end up screwing up the next shot?


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## Koen (May 17, 2009)

Of course it is a sport. If chess is a sport why would speedcubing not be one?


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## fanwuq (May 17, 2009)

wikipedia said:


> Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determinant of the outcome (winning or losing), but the term is also used to include activities such as mind sports (a common name for some card games and board games with little to no element of chance) and motor sports where mental acuity or equipment quality are major factors. Sport is commonly defined as an organized, competitive and skillful physical activity requiring commitment and fair play.



Not all physical activities are sports, and not all sports are physical activities. If there is no competition, you can be the most physically strong and skilled person without actually being a sportsman be definition.
For example, a traceur is technically not an athlete because it is a way of life, not competition:





I would call speedcubing, cupstacking, chess, baseball, and golf sports. But in truth, you do not actually have to be in great shape to be good at them.
I don't know why people even bother to take, steroids for baseball. Seriously, just get a fat guy with a huge club, and he will pwn every baseball game.


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## Neutrals01 (May 17, 2009)

hmm...wow...if I could be like that guy in the video I would be glad..can go anywhere(pass through any obstacles) I want...

btw...if chess,poker,cupstacking is a sport then definitely I say speedcubing is a sport..fingers speed...

and who cares about the way the ancients define sports as...things change from time to time...even english wasn't born yet at that time...

but if chess,poker,cupstacking, etc... are counted as sports, I don't see in what reason speedcubing is not a sport..and some ppl sweat a lot while speedcubing.... and my hands even get tired when I speedsolve for 2 hours non-stop..do u get tired when u fish for 2 hours? I think u will get sleepy instead of tired..(if there ain't any fish around) =P

I think speedcubing is counted a new sport..just like sport stacking...hmm...is beer pong counted as a sport? throwing ping pong balls into the cups..?


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## panyan (May 17, 2009)

nothing where you are sitting in a comfy chair and using your hands is a sport

@ fanwuq - awesome video!


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## Deleted member 2864 (May 17, 2009)

I seriously wonder why nobody has mentioned sportsmanship. Sure, for a sport, you need an athlete, but rules and courtesy should be in it, too! Baseball has rules and the umpire has the final say, soccer with the referee, and many other sports.


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## qqwref (May 18, 2009)

Any organized activity and any game has rules; and courtesy/sportsmanship is irrelevant to whether something is a sport. Think of any sport; would it still be a sport if the players were rude to each other? Of course it would, just a much less fun one to be part of. Sportsmanship tends to be a part of sports, but it's because the players want to have a better environment, not because it's necessary for the sport to exist.


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## Musselman (May 18, 2009)

well if poker is a sport, then anything is


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## SlaughterMelon (May 18, 2009)

I would say yes. 

In my opinion, a sport is anything you can compete in, and that you need to practice to get good at. I do consider playing Video Games a sport. You can compete, and you have to practice (oh god you have to practice). And you don't just have to play in teams, as with most traditional sports. Tae Kwon Do is a sport (I believe it is recognized by most sport organization, I think it's in the Olympics, too), but in competitive TKD, you're by yourself, trying to rise above the rest. No team there.

Speedcubing uses both of these. You can compete, obviously, and you have to practice, obviously.

Of course, by this definition, almost anything can be considered a sport, music, writing, speaking, etc. But then, I don't like labels .


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## sooland (May 19, 2009)

Yes, it is a sport
It is a sport due to the competition and focus of the cube, and the practice it takes.


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## Deleted member 2864 (May 19, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Any organized activity and any game has rules; and courtesy/sportsmanship is irrelevant to whether something is a sport. Think of any sport; would it still be a sport if the players were rude to each other? Of course it would, just a much less fun one to be part of. Sportsmanship tends to be a part of sports, but it's because the players want to have a better environment, not because it's necessary for the sport to exist.



hmm... nice logic, but I do think that there has to be sportsmanship in a sport. If a player is not kind, than they are playing a game, not a sport, IMO

maybe its just cuz I play golf, which requires buttloads of etiquette, but still!


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## Crumbshaw (May 23, 2009)

I think its a sport for me cause they have competitions


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## rahulkadukar (May 23, 2009)

I say it again YES


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## solver (May 23, 2009)

I don't think that cubing is sport, to me its merely an emulated sport


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## ThatGuy (May 23, 2009)

Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. cause wiki is always right. I'll read the other post eventually and get back maybe.


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## SparkZer00 (May 23, 2009)

Speedcubing is a sport like ping pong and cheerleading are sports, it arguably is and isn't


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## ThatGuy (May 23, 2009)

Our school newspaper had an article on cheer. One of the girls in soccer said: "If you don't wear a sports bra it isn't a sport."


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## qqwref (May 23, 2009)

ThatGuy said:


> Our school newspaper had an article on cheer. One of the girls in soccer said: "If you don't wear a sports bra it isn't a sport."



Damn, I totally could've made fun of the men's football team in high school if I'd known they were all wearing bras. Why didn't you tell me this earlier? >_<


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## IamWEB (May 23, 2009)

solver said:


> I don't think that cubing is sport, to me its merely an emulated sport



You just said that you didn't think it was a sport, and that you think it's a sport.

But you put in a special title second time.


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## gavnasty (May 23, 2009)

i think pretty much everything that has a competitive edge and involves physical activity at all is a sport. i also think competitive video/computer games are sports.


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## Kickflip1993 (May 23, 2009)

Speedcubing is a passion


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## Enter (May 23, 2009)

2x2x2 is like 60m run 
3x3x3 is like 100m 
4x4x4 is like 400m
5x5x5 is like 800m
6x6x6 and 7x7x7 is a marathon


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## qqwref (May 24, 2009)

Maybe not a marathon, but if 5x5 is 800m, then 6x6 is a mile and 7x7 is 2500m. I do feel like the smaller cubes are more like sprints (just going as fast as you can for a short period) whereas the larger cubes are more like long-distance running (you need consistent speed and a little endurance).


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## Mariah94 (May 12, 2010)

*The Question "Sport or Hobby?". Your answer used as a quote, or a number for my paper*

So, almost done with that research paper. But now, since my next topic "Sport or Hobby?" is not found in any books of mine, I am going to my online source (this site)

I'm basically going to do a ratio type thing. Who thinks it's a sport, and who doesn't. 

So, could you answer the question? If your answer contains valid reasoning, and sounds educated, I may quote it in the paper using your user name, or your first and or last name IF you post it with your answer. If you don't want to be "quoted" then just say so. Later today, I will ratio the answers.

Remember, this is just a research paper for my little tiny homeschool co-op. Only my English teacher will read it. And if it's really good, she will probably let my geometry teacher read it. (they are like bff)

Would love to hear your answer


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## brunson (May 12, 2010)

Oxford English Dictionary defines a sport as:


> sport
> • *noun* *1* an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others.



Clearly it requires hand speed, dexterity and skill and we compete among ourselves.

Speedsolving: sport. FMC: not a sport.


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## DaijoCube (May 12, 2010)

It is a hobby. It does not require any physical endurance, only dexterity and speed of hands.

There are no real rules about cubing too. You can solve it any way you want and the solve will still be valid, unlike most sport where rules are strict.
I know about competition rules, but they don't necessarily apply at home. Soccer rules, for example, apply the same way in competition and when you play in your yard too.


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## Edward (May 12, 2010)

Sport when competing, practice when at home.


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## jms_gears1 (May 12, 2010)

DaijoCube said:


> It is a hobby. It does not require any physical endurance, only dexterity and speed of hands.
> 
> There are no real rules about cubing too. You can solve it any way you want and the solve will still be valid, unlike most sport where rules are strict.
> I know about competition rules, but they don't necessarily apply at home. Soccer rules, for example, apply the same way in competition and when you play in your yard too.


.. have you never heard of WCA and their regulations?
What you said there could be applied to any sport.

The same rules in the 'arena' of the sport dont apply at home. For soocer there doesnt have to be a boundary at home. At home you could make it so that one could touch the ball with their hand. During practice no rules are really enforced when its you practicing by yourself, except for the ones that you enforce on yourself. Same way with cubing and every OTHER sport.

Cubing is a sport.


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## waffle=ijm (May 12, 2010)

Edward said:


> Sport when competing, practice when at home.



I agree with this completely


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## sub_zero1983 (May 12, 2010)

For me its a hobby, It lets me enter my own little world where I don't have to worry about all the b/s that goes on in our society today.


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## That70sShowDude (May 12, 2010)

waffle=ijm said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > Sport when competing, practice when at home.
> ...



Same here.


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## Carrot (May 12, 2010)

Hobby =)


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## j957_o3 (May 12, 2010)

daijo cube- you are wrong about the rules of sports applying everywhere, they are almost always changed or varied for backyard sports play


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## Cyrus C. (May 12, 2010)

Google says it's "an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition." I'm pretty sure it's a diversion, it requires physical exertion, & mental exertion. It also provokes competition. -Cyrus Colah


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## Mitch15 (May 12, 2010)

DaijoCube said:


> It is a hobby. It does not require any physical endurance, only dexterity and speed of hands.



by the google definition "an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition."
if youre getting caught up on exertion dictionary.com defines exertion as "vigorous action or effort"

im quite sure we all agree that cubing takes physical vigorous action or effort. i bet most of us have experienced times when are hands get tired after a few hours of practice.

i call it a sport


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## Venividivici (May 12, 2010)

After reading the definition of Sport and exertion from the oxford dictionary. I have to go sport. What sold me was under the definition of exertion, it included the phrasing "vigorous action" and that is what one does when speed solving. It is a sport if one attempts to solve the cube fast.


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## miniGOINGS (May 12, 2010)

DaijoCube said:


> It is a hobby. It does not require any physical endurance, only dexterity and speed of hands.



Incorrect.


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## Litz (May 12, 2010)

If you consider something like chess to be a sport, I suppose you should consider cubing a sport too.

In my opinion it's a hobby though. I really don't think it involves physical capabilities or endurance or whatever. It involves lots of practice, but so does maths and I don't consider that a sport either.


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## dannyz0r (May 12, 2010)

Litz said:


> If you consider something like chess to be a sport, I suppose you should consider cubing a sport too.
> 
> In my opinion it's a hobby though. I really don't think it involves physical capabilities or endurance or whatever. It involves lots of practice, but so does maths and I don't consider that a sport either.



Go for 24 hours straight of cubing and then come back and say no endurance involved


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## Litz (May 12, 2010)

dannyz0r said:


> Litz said:
> 
> 
> > If you consider something like chess to be a sport, I suppose you should consider cubing a sport too.
> ...



Go for 24 hours straight of writing and then come back and say no endurance involved.


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## Kirjava (May 12, 2010)

It's both, of course. Just like any other sport.


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## Rpotts (May 12, 2010)

Litz said:


> dannyz0r said:
> 
> 
> > Litz said:
> ...



pwned

I would argue it's not a sport. Cause if speedcubing is a sport, then cheerleading must be a sport too, and I'm not ok with that.


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## Kirjava (May 12, 2010)

SEMANTICS FIGHT!


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## PatrickJameson (May 12, 2010)

Rpotts said:


> Cause if speedcubing is a sport, then cheerleading must be a sport too, and I'm not ok with that.



Have you seen cheerleading competitions? Some are quite intense.


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## Edmund (May 12, 2010)

If curling is in the olympics and hot dog eating is on ESPN cubing is definitely a sport.


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## Lux Aeterna (May 12, 2010)

"A hobby is an activity or interest that is undertaken for pleasure or relaxation, often in one's spare time."

Why exactly is this an either-or thing? I'm pretty sure if you play a sport but not professionally, that's a hobby.


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## cubedude7 (May 12, 2010)

Pretty difficult question.
If someone asks me if I sport, I mostly say:' I play volleyball and I also go to speedcubing competitions, but that's more a hobby.'
Hmm, confusing, I think it's a hobby.


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## Edward (May 12, 2010)

Lux Aeterna said:


> "A hobby is an activity or interest that is undertaken for pleasure or relaxation, often in one's spare time."
> 
> Why exactly is this an either-or thing? I'm pretty sure if you play a sport but not professionally, that's a hobby.



So little league sports is just a hobby? I'm sure noone playing for a little league team is professional.


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## Chapuunka (May 12, 2010)

For me it's just a hobby because I'm not competing directly against others. It does require skill and practice, but require a lot of physical exertion so it doesn't seem like a sport to me.

Feel free to quote me.


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## Lux Aeterna (May 12, 2010)

Edward said:


> Lux Aeterna said:
> 
> 
> > "A hobby is an activity or interest that is undertaken for pleasure or relaxation, often in one's spare time."
> ...



Uh, yes, little league sports is a hobby. So is college sports, so is any sport whose players aren't just in it for money. Pretty much everything kids do on a regular basis except go to school is a hobby. What is this "just a hobby" business? My point was that the word "hobby" does not imply that the activity is frivolous or trivial or anything... A hobby is for fun, and a sport is competitive -- why do you have to pick one or the other?


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## CubesOfTheWorld (May 12, 2010)

I am not 100% sure on either side. I will make a ratio of votes for my brain and what it thinks...

5 hobby:4 sport.


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## Meep (May 12, 2010)

DaijoCube said:


> It is a hobby. It does not require any physical endurance, only dexterity and speed of hands.
> 
> There are no real rules about cubing too. You can solve it any way you want and the solve will still be valid, unlike most sport where rules are strict.
> I know about competition rules, but they don't necessarily apply at home. Soccer rules, for example, apply the same way in competition and when you play in your yard too.



Solving it different ways is still achieving a common goal. Having multiple ways of solving it is like having multiple strategies for scoring in a sport.

I say it's a sport, btw


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## shelley (May 12, 2010)

Sports can be hobbies. Also, a poll would help you with your numbers.


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## Mariah94 (May 12, 2010)

PatrickJameson said:


> Rpotts said:
> 
> 
> > Cause if speedcubing is a sport, then cheerleading must be a sport too, and I'm not ok with that.
> ...



cheerleading is definitly a sport. i don't know that from expirience, though.


----------



## Mariah94 (May 12, 2010)

Lux Aeterna said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > Lux Aeterna said:
> ...



i have to pick one or the other 'cause my teacher says so, lol. But very good point. anything that is a sport, is a hobby, but not all hobbys are sports.


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## DaijoCube (May 12, 2010)

j957_o3 said:


> daijo cube- you are wrong about the rules of sports applying everywhere, they are almost always changed or varied for backyard sports play



Yeah, they are different. I failed to say what I wanted to say rly.


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## Samania (May 12, 2010)

Its a hobby. 
you dont exactly sweat while you cube.


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## RyanO (May 13, 2010)

Hobby


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## Kian (May 13, 2010)

I absolutely do not consider cubing a sport. In my view, it is a hobby.


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## cincyaviation (May 13, 2010)

I consider it a sport. It is a very low-level one, and barely above a hobby but it is still a sport.
The reason i say this is because there is a definite win-lose factor (unless you tie). You are not relying on people's opinions for your scores, and in my opinion, that makes it a sport. I consider a sport to be something that you can compete against others in and there can be a definite win-loss based on a solid fact. I would consider cheerleading, for example, to be a recreational activity, because scoring (to my knowledge) would be based on the opinion of a judge. Like it or not, this is why i think cubing is a sport.


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## waffle=ijm (May 13, 2010)

Samania said:


> Its a hobby.
> you dont exactly sweat while you cube.



I do.


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## Googlrr (May 13, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> I consider it a sport. It is a very low-level one, and barely above a hobby but it is still a sport.
> The reason i say this is because there is a definite win-lose factor (unless you tie). You are not relying on people's opinions for your scores, and in my opinion, that makes it a sport. I consider a sport to be something that you can compete against others in and there can be a definite win-loss based on a solid fact. I would consider cheerleading, for example, to be a recreational activity, because scoring (to my knowledge) would be based on the opinion of a judge. Like it or not, this is why i think cubing is a sport.



To me, this makes a lot of sense, to a certain degree I agree. I do however consider Cheerleading somewhat of a sport, more so than cubing anyway. But that's a different story.


Cubing I wouldn't consider a sport. It's just a competitive hobby, more or less a game. I mean if someone asked me if I play sports, I wouldn't say I cube daily. That's silly. If I have to explain and convince someone that what I'm doing is a sport, then it's probably not a very good sport.


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## SuperNerd (May 13, 2010)

I would barely consider cubing a sport. For the most part, I think that it is a hobby. However, if you cube too much, then you can get RSI or CTS, which means that you can physically strain yourself while cubing, but that is if you cube in such a way that turning is akward, and you cube like that for a long time.

Cubing is recreational.


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## Chapuunka (May 13, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> I consider it a sport. It is a very low-level one, and barely above a hobby but it is still a sport.
> The reason i say this is because there is a definite win-lose factor (unless you tie). You are not relying on people's opinions for your scores, and in my opinion, that makes it a sport. I consider a sport to be something that you can compete against others in and there can be a definite win-loss based on a solid fact. I would consider cheerleading, for example, to be a recreational activity, because scoring (to my knowledge) would be based on the opinion of a judge. Like it or not, this is why i think cubing is a sport.



So you're saying something like gymnastics isn't a sport? Have you seen it, been a part of it?



Googlrr said:


> I mean if someone asked me if I play sports, I wouldn't say I cube daily. That's silly. If I have to explain and convince someone that what I'm doing is a sport, then it's probably not a very good sport.



This.


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## cincyaviation (May 13, 2010)

Chapuunka said:


> cincyaviation said:
> 
> 
> > I consider it a sport. It is a very low-level one, and barely above a hobby but it is still a sport.
> ...


i thought about that just before i posted that, i definitely consider gymnastics a sport, but that means i just contradicted myself, i'm really not sure where my opinion should be on this one


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## Johannes91 (May 13, 2010)

The question would make a lot more sense as "Sport or not?", although some posters in this thread do seem to consider hobby vs. sport a dichotomy. Go figure.

There have been a couple of threads about sport-or-not and one even had a poll.


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## vgbjason (May 13, 2010)

I think it depends on what you cube for. If you cube to occupy your time, it's a hobby. If you cube to get better and perform in competition, it's a sport.

Hobby for me.


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## Dene (May 13, 2010)

As far as the "it can be a sport and a hobby" comments are concerned, I think the intention of the original poll was to say "does it count as a sport, or simply as a hobby". Or otherwise as Johannes91 suggests, "sport or not" would be a better way to put it.

Personally I think cubing is a sport when at a competition (WCA or otherwise). When at home you might say "I'm practising my sport" but that would be like saying soccer practise is a sport, which it is not, it is practise for a sport. So: yes cubing is a sport at the competition level. If you just cube at home then it is a hobby.


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## Innocence (May 13, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> Chapuunka said:
> 
> 
> > cincyaviation said:
> ...



You don't need to contradict yourself at all. As far as MAG is concerned:

We are scored out of an arbitrary figure based on the difficulty of the skills in the routine. Fair so far? If your toes are not pointed to a certain degree, you lose some points. (Usually between 0.1 and 0.5.) same goes for bent legs, and poor shape. You fall off completely, 0.8. Fall on to the apparatus without touching the ground, 0.5. And so on, there's almost no opinion in it. The same judges judge everyone, so it's completely fair, bar corruption etc, which isn't the sport's fault.

By the way, I do think cubing is a sport, at a competitive level. There's another number for you.


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## hyunchoi98 (May 13, 2010)

Of course it's a sport.
You practice and you become better at it and compete.
Sports are like that too.


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## Tim Major (May 13, 2010)

It's a sport for geeks with no lives.


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## Bayamo Penguin (May 13, 2010)

Like most any "sport", there are those who do it for "fun" or recreation on their free time, and there are those who dedicate themselves full time to it..


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## gavnasty (May 13, 2010)

Someone needs to come up with a term that will define activities that are not traditionally sports."Sports" that involve no legitimate physical action, but do have a strong competitive aspect. Things like cubing, poker (it's on ESPN), or esports (like StarCraft). Their only relation to sports is the competitiveness. 

To answer the question, I'd say cubing is a hobby that I compete at occassionally.


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## JTW2007 (May 13, 2010)

Agreed with Kirjava.


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## cuberkid10 (May 14, 2010)

It is a sport. Although it may not be as well known as more popular sports such as football, it still involves movement of the hand, and can even cause some to break a sweat!


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## Hiero (May 14, 2010)

I would compare it to archery or rifle marksmanship. You might want to research what makes these two a sport. I think under similar grounds cubing could be considered a sport.


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## RubiksDude (May 22, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> It's both, of course. Just like any other sport.



I think the same thing.


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## goatseforever (May 22, 2010)

Hi


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## Forte (May 22, 2010)

Speedsolving is an ILLEGAL DRINKING GAME.
Fewest moves is an EVENT.

Thank you for the clarification, goatseforever.


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## lilkdub503 (May 22, 2010)

This is not a sport AT ALL. It's simply a hobby. I do it in my spare time, it saps my energy and money, I will not have a chance at getting money for college for cubing. Or money in life. You can be obese and be a cuber, you can't golf or play baseball and be obese.


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## Meep (May 22, 2010)

lilkdub503 said:


> This is not a sport AT ALL. It's simply a hobby. I do it in my spare time, it saps my energy and money, I will not have a chance at getting money for college for cubing. Or money in life. You can be obese and be a cuber, you can't golf or play baseball and be obese.



Obesity doesn't determine whether something's a sport or not. You can play both golf and basketball while obese; you just wouldn't be very good at it.


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## Mitch15 (May 22, 2010)

plus, there are athletes that are overweight... john daly was good


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## ElderKingpin (May 22, 2010)

according to wikipedia.

A sport is commonly defined as an organized, competitive, and skillful physical activity requiring commitment and fair play...

And A hobby is an activity or interest that is undertaken for pleasure or relaxation, often in one's spare time.

So. cubing is so awesome. its both


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## BC1997 (Apr 28, 2011)

If poker and golf are sports so is speedcubing, but not a really physical one.


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Apr 28, 2011)

BC1997 said:


> If poker and golf are sports so is speedcubing, but not a really physical one.


 
But it helps your FINGERS!!


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## Godmil (Apr 28, 2011)

AGH!!! a 3 year bump, on a small thread that was started 5 years ago.


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## d4m4s74 (Apr 28, 2011)

Speedsolving is sport, just like sportstacking (look, sport is even in the name), chess and poker, unnecessary bumping however, is not


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## BC1997 (Apr 28, 2011)

Godmil said:


> AGH!!! a 3 year bump, on a small thread that was started 5 years ago.


 
I found the thread when i was surfing the web on the subject for some odd reason. Lol did't mean to start a new argument or rather continue one.


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## leonopulos1 (Apr 28, 2011)

If chess is a sport speedcubing is also a sport!


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## ianography (Apr 28, 2011)

My signature for some time said "I don't care what you say, cubing is a sport." I still live by this.


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## Hershey (Apr 28, 2011)

sport   
[spawrt, spohrt] Show IPA
–noun
1.
an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2.
a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
3.
diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sport

Well, i guess speedcubing is more of definition #3.


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## Shortey (Apr 28, 2011)

Hell no, cubing ain't a sport. Chess isn't either. How is it a sport?! xD


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## MaeLSTRoM (Apr 28, 2011)

Hershey said:


> sport
> [spawrt, spohrt] Show IPA
> –noun
> 1.
> ...


 

And it gets 2/3 on number 1 (As proved by cubecast episode 17)


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## Hershey (Apr 28, 2011)

If moving your fingers are athletic and make cubing a sport, then that means that,


ewwww no (I'd rather not say how else you can use your fingers)........


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## cubeslayer (Apr 28, 2011)

Do not look down upon chess. Chess is more of a sport than cubing will ever be. Why, because chess is not simple memorization and execution. Two warriors come to a battlefield and fight tooth and nail to conquer the other's monarch. Chess has limitless possibilities, theory is ever increasing and the older dogmas and schools of thought are constantly challenged . With cubing one can get sub 20 seconds within a matter of two to three months. With chess one can spend a lifetime and never become a master. Do not belittle that which you know snuff about. 

--THIS COMMENT IS TOWARDS ALL OF YOU WHOM ARE OF THE SAME OPINION AS leonopulos1


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## freshcuber (Apr 28, 2011)

I don't think speedcubing is a sport on the same level as soccer, swimming, lacrosse ect ect are but I'd consider it a mental sport just like chess would be.


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## Xishem (May 1, 2011)

I think that there are a few different types of sports. I don't consider physical sports to be the only type of sport. I think that there are three main types of sports: physical sports (football, baseball, hockey), mental sports (memory, chess, blindfold cubing), and dexterity sports (speedstacking, cubing, juggling, yoyoing).

I see no reason that sports should be restricted to physical activity. I think a sport is really anything that is considered competitive, really. But that's just my opinion.


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## TheMachanga (May 1, 2011)

Chess, dance, speedcubing, and cheerleading are not sports...


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## Erzz (May 1, 2011)

cubeslayer said:


> Do not look down upon chess. Chess is more of a sport than cubing will ever be. Why, because chess is not simple memorization and execution. Two warriors come to a battlefield and fight tooth and nail to conquer the other's monarch. Chess has *limitless possibilities*, theory is ever increasing and the older dogmas and schools of thought are constantly challenged . With cubing one can get sub 20 seconds within a matter of two to three months. With chess one can spend a lifetime and never become a master. Do not belittle that which you know snuff about.
> 
> --THIS COMMENT IS TOWARDS ALL OF YOU WHOM ARE OF THE SAME OPINION AS leonopulos1


 
I thought there were like 10^123 possibilities.

On topic, if Poker is a sport then Cubing is a sport. You can memorize things for both but both need a little extra to be good.


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## Cool Frog (May 1, 2011)

cubeslayer said:


> Do not look down upon chess. Chess is more of a sport than cubing will ever be. Why, because chess is not simple memorization and execution. Two warriors come to a battlefield and fight tooth and nail to conquer the other's monarch. Chess has limitless possibilities, theory is ever increasing and the older dogmas and schools of thought are constantly challenged . With cubing one can get sub 20 seconds within a matter of two to three months. With chess one can spend a lifetime and never become a master. Do not belittle that which you know snuff about.
> 
> --THIS COMMENT IS TOWARDS ALL OF YOU WHOM ARE OF THE SAME OPINION AS leonopulos1


 
You don't HAVE to memorize algorithms. It would be like memorizing openings, If you don't know the concept or can change them to do what you want then you won't be very good (well at least for FMC). End bad comparison?


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## Phlippieskezer (May 1, 2011)

I definitely don't consider it a sport, but that doesn't make it any less enjoyable.

I don't understand why people make such a big deal about. :-/
Personally, I'm a hobbyist, not an athlete. I have my chess board (which I have unfortunately not touched in a while due to a large overseas move, and lack of players) a few metres away from me, my Guhong right next to me, and Grim Angus (a figurine from a a tabletop game "Warmachine," or, technically, "Hordes") beside my keyboard. That doesn't prove anything other than that I'm a nerd/geek/dork (which you don't actually have to be in order to cube).
Also, hobbies are no less competitive, enjoyable, etc. Chess tournaments are HUGE in the areas of South Africa that I used to live in, we all know cubing can be competitive, and even tabletop gaming to a degree (though there's a lot more luck involved).
That being said, I don't consider golf a "sport."

I personally don't consider cubing a sport because then the word becomes to flexible and you can use it for just about anything, resulting in a useless word. People ask for language to provide a systematic, objective, and definite way of defining things. This is wrong.
Why? Because linguistics is full of contradiction and ambiguity. 

More-or-less the closest you can come to a systematic/objective method of determining whether or not something is a "sport": http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5607/1271671539757.jpg
According to this, (speed)cubing is a "Race (at best)" and chess is either a race or a game (depending on your variation. Blitz and most competitive games tend to be under "Race [at best]")

At best, cubing is a pseudo-sport (not following the diagram), IMO.


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## sa11297 (May 1, 2011)

Oh can be tiring and feet solving can be also so that would require athletic abilities, making cubing a sport. not that it matters


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## MrIndianTeen (May 1, 2011)

It is a sport if you consider these 2 definitions --

Sport -- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

1) cubing is a sport because it has a competitive nature that requires skill.

Athletic -- involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina

2) It is athletic because it requires finger agility.

SO CUBING IS A SPORT BY DEFINITION.


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## Phlippieskezer (May 1, 2011)

But you can twist and turn the word "athletic" in so many ways...

I need agility in rolling my dice and moving my figurines in Warmachine. Therefore, it is a sport. 
Competitive eating is then a sport as well, etc., etc.
Linguistics is too flawed for there to be a definite answer.
I think the word "sport" because far too vast then.


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## Nestor (May 1, 2011)

Speedcubing a sport? I don't think it quites fit the definition, I consider it a competitive hobbie (99% of the time you are competing only against yourself, though).

Just don't compare chess to cubing. Ever. As challenging as cubing can be, it is not on par with what chess has to offer in terms of complexity, challenge and mastery. Anyone talented enough can simply memorize/execute and break world records in this hobbie after a couple of years... in chess it takes a lot, lot more (strategy and having an opponent affecting the dynamics are just a couple of the things speedcubing lacks to be par with it).


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## Rpotts (May 1, 2011)

Phlippieskezer said:


> I think the word "sport" because far too vast then.


 
OH NO THINK OF THE CONSEQUENCES


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## Xishem (May 1, 2011)

Rpotts said:


> OH NO THINK OF THE CONSEQUENCES



This.

Another function of language is to form and shape to new usages.


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## CubeCow (Mar 13, 2015)

Do you consider speed cubing a sport?

Yea cuz...:
1: It requires finger dexterity
2: There are not only competitions, but global competitions
3: It doesn't only take finger dexterity, but also skill
4: It has equipment and practice
5: There are tactics and strategies
6: *If you have any more let me know!*

No way! Cuz...
1: No Inherent risk of injury?
2: Idk, I think cubing is a sport *if you think speed cubing isn't a sport, let me know why!*


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## biscuit (Mar 13, 2015)

no... Just no. I love it but it is not a sport. A sport takes your entire body working together while cubing is just your hands. A sport has an inherent physical risk while cubing does not (ok you can get hand injury's but shut it)


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## mDiPalma (Mar 13, 2015)

cubing: no

speedcubing: yes


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## Thatoneguy2 (Mar 13, 2015)

I don't think it's really a sport. It should require some physical exercise at least...and no, moving your fingers does not count as exercise, sorry.


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## tx789 (Mar 13, 2015)

Speedcubing isn't a sport. It has no physical exertion as said before by others. I put it in a category of psuedo sport. Things people call sports that aren't become of the lack of physical exertion. 

Also


CubeCow said:


> Do you consider speed cubing a sport?
> 
> Yea cuz...:
> 1: It requires finger dexterity


So does playing a musical instrument.


> 2: There are not only competitions, but global competitions


So does a lot of things. An example is paper, scissors, rock.


> 3: It doesn't only take finger dexterity, but also skill


As do many, many things. This is almost the same reason as the your first reason..


> 4: It has equipment and practice


You have to practise to get good at anything and equipment is a very broad thing. If you play music you need to have equipment and practise.


> 5: There are tactics and strategies


 As with games. Whether they are a computer game or a board game. 

All I'm trying to say is those reasons aren't good ones since they can be applied to things no considered sports. That very, few if at all say are sports. Playing Music fits all these reasons is that a sport?


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## CubeCow (Mar 13, 2015)

tx789 said:


> Speedcubing isn't a sport. It has no physical exertion as said before by others. I put it in a category of psuede sport. Things people call sports that aren't become of the lack of physical exertion.



Like Chess?


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## Ollie (Mar 13, 2015)

Why is a risk of injury criteria to class something as a sport? Besides, what about repetitive strain injury?

I would say that speedcubing (agreeing with Matt) can be classed as a sport in the same way Chess is, technically. But it doesn't affect anything in the scheme of things, so who cares.

I would challenge the physical exertion argument by saying that your cubing endurance can be indirectly improved by doing physical activity. I go to the gym to stay fit, but exercise improves your overall cognition so you can practice more events for longer (especially BLD) by staying healthy. This is something a lot of the top chess players do too. But see above ^


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## tx789 (Mar 13, 2015)

CubeCow said:


> Like Chess?



In my opionion chess isn't a sport. I'd say psuedo sport but only because people consider it a sport.


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## Bunyanderman (Mar 13, 2015)

If Poker is a sport, cubing is a sport.


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## Skullush (Mar 13, 2015)

High physical exertion is not required for something to be a sport. Anything that can be done competitively can be a sport in the appropriate setting. Anything that has a championship at any level is a sport. Poker is a sport, chess is a sport, cup stacking is a sport (albeit a silly one), League of Legends is a sport (an even sillier one), and speedcubing is a sport.


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## CubeCow (Mar 13, 2015)

Skullush said:


> High physical exertion is not required for something to be a sport. Anything that can be done competitively can be a sport in the appropriate setting. Anything that has a championship at any level is a sport. Poker is a sport, chess is a sport, cup stacking is a sport (albeit a silly one), League of Legends is a sport (an even sillier one), and speedcubing is a sport.



Thank you. Someone that things along(Aolong, haha so punny) the same lines of me.


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## Ordway Persyn (Mar 13, 2015)

I think its a sport to the people who want it to be, and not a sport to the people who don't.


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## obelisk477 (Mar 13, 2015)

spôrt/Submit
noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


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## SpeedCubeReview (Mar 13, 2015)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sport

I would say speedcubing counts. Also, if hunting is a sport... So is this


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## AlphaSheep (Mar 13, 2015)

The counter-example to all the "sports involve physical exertion, etc." arguments is lawn bowls.


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## DeeDubb (Mar 13, 2015)

Ordway Persyn said:


> I think its a sport to the people who want it to be, and not a sport to the people who don't.



That's a fine answer. An arbitrary label such as "sports" is pointless to debate about.


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## newtonbase (Mar 13, 2015)

Cubing, poker, chess, pool, snooker, pool and darts are all games not sports imho. They all require skill but just aren't physical enough.


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## Berd (Mar 13, 2015)

Blindsolving is a memory sport?


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## Dene (Mar 13, 2015)

Ohcool another one of these threads.

Let's all define "sport", then based on that definition we can determine whether cubing is a "sport" or not.


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## Ollie (Mar 13, 2015)

Dene said:


> Ohcool another one of these threads.
> 
> Let's all define "sport", then based on that definition we can determine whether cubing is a "sport" or not.



I googled the word sport, so I know my stuff - right?


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## Dene (Mar 13, 2015)

Ya totes. All I'm sayin' is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports#Speedcubing


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## Berd (Mar 13, 2015)

Dene said:


> Ya totes. All I'm sayin' is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports#Speedcubing



That's cool!


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## NewCuber000 (Mar 13, 2015)

I'm in a few 'sports', but I've NEVER considered speedcubing as one of them. I think it's safe just to call speedcubing a competitive hobby.


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## ~Adam~ (Mar 13, 2015)

AlphaSheep said:


> The counter-example to all the "sports involve physical exertion, etc." arguments is lawn bowls.



Yet still more physical than cubing.

I think sports and exercise go hand in hand.
However why does it matter? If it's just because you want to consider an activity which you enjoy a sport then maybe you care too much about labels.


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## rowan (Mar 13, 2015)

mDiPalma said:


> cubing: no
> 
> speedcubing: yes



Never seen anyone differentiate like that before, interesting. ^_^

I was honestly surprised to only find three previous threads on this when I searched; I might be missing some. I remember Cubecast talked about it, too. They said no according to this definition.


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## Petro Leum (Mar 13, 2015)

*Speed*cubing is a sport in the definition that it's competitive, based on skill and has competitions n ****
Speedcubing is not a sport in the colloquial definition of physical exercise.


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## asacuber (Dec 11, 2015)

*What is cubing?*

This is a question I have found myself pondering about for quite a time... and I am interested...


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## sqAree (Dec 11, 2015)

I think it's a question of what cubing is for ourselves.
It's pretty obvious that cubing can be at least Art and/or Sport and/or some "weird" talent. 
It's Sport because of the competitive aspect (it even has physical activity and chess is a Sport also).
It's Art cause of the variety of ways how to solve or even work with a cube (think of disciplines like FMC for example but it applies for every discipline imo).
Maybe one doesn't need to be overly talented to cube but I bet there are people out there who think of themselves to have only a weird talent with cubing.


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## PenguinsDontFly (Dec 11, 2015)

I think its a sport in that we practise to improve and compete for rankings/podiums/wins/records. I dont see how it could be classified as an art unless you do something creative with it.


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## BananaSlayer64 (Dec 11, 2015)

I consider it a hobby, and a sport when you're competing.


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## qwertycuber (Dec 11, 2015)

I think it is all of the above.


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## stoic (Dec 11, 2015)

Cubing is relaxation, for me.


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## shadowslice e (Dec 11, 2015)

Cubing is love, cubing is life


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## Selkie (Dec 11, 2015)

Agreed all of the above. Interesting I wave wondered this at times and others have asked me the same thing


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## BananaSlayer64 (Dec 11, 2015)

shadowslice e said:


> Cubing is love, cubing is life


I was thinking of saying that lol


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## henrysavich (Dec 11, 2015)

I've always thought of cubing as a non-athletic sport


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## Matt11111 (Dec 11, 2015)

My friend from Mathcounts says that he's better than me at sports, so a mutual friend said that cubing is a sport, so then he said that he's better than me at athletic sports. So then the mutual friend called cubing an athletic sport, but to be fair, that would make chess an athletic sport. Heck, that'd make watching TV an athletic sport. WHAT THE BISCUIT. Basically, he said that you're working out your hands whenever you cube. But does that really make me an athlete?


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## YouCubing (Dec 11, 2015)

It's whatever you think it is.


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## sqAree (Dec 11, 2015)

Chess and watching TV is possible without training the fingers or a physical part of our body.
For cubing we need to train our fingers physically.


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## JustinTimeCuber (Dec 11, 2015)

Cubing is cubing. But I have always thought of it as a sort of sport, not exactly an "athletic" one, but more of a dexterous one, because we need to be fast with our fingers.
Edit: lol I voted and I accidently hit "Art". (But seriously, it is a weird talent.)


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## Matt11111 (Dec 11, 2015)

JustinTimeCuber said:


> Cubing is cubing. But I have always thought of it as a sort of sport, not exactly an "athletic" one, but more of a dexterous one, because we need to be fast with our fingers.
> Edit: lol I voted and I accidently hit "Art". (But seriously, it is a weird talent.)



And that's why we both disagreed with said mutual friend.


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## youSurname (Dec 11, 2015)

I would say cubing is a "sport" (note the quote marks), as it has many qualities of sport (practice, competitive etc.), yet lacks the typical athletic side.


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## Hssandwich (Dec 11, 2015)

What is cubing? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more.


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## biscuit (Dec 11, 2015)

henrysavich said:


> I've always thought of cubing as a non-athletic sport



That is a contradiction. According to the blurb that pops up in google when you google "define sport" a sport is 

"an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."

So to all you calling cubing a sport, no, it is not.


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## Cale S (Dec 11, 2015)

I'd say cubing is a hobby, but if you are competitively trying to get faster it is also a sport



Hssandwich said:


> What is cubing? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more.



my first thought when I saw the thread


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## biscuit (Dec 11, 2015)

Cale S said:


> I'd say cubing is a hobby, but if you are competitively trying to get faster it is also a sport
> 
> 
> 
> my first thought when I saw the thread



A competitive activity/game but not a sport.


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## Matt11111 (Dec 11, 2015)

biscuit said:


> That is a contradiction. According to the blurb that pops up in google when you google "define sport" a sport is
> 
> "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."
> 
> So to all you calling cubing a sport, no, it is not.



Gosh dang it, mutual friend.


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## Ordway Persyn (Dec 12, 2015)

biscuit said:


> That is a contradiction. According to the blurb that pops up in google when you google "define sport" a sport is
> 
> "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."
> 
> So to all you calling cubing a sport, no, it is not.



Your wrong here, cubing is within that definition of a sport. Let me give that definition an autopsy and see if anything does not apply to cubing:

An activity Involving physical exertion: In order to cube you are using your fingers and hands (and sometimes feet) to move the cube. Very fast cubers are moving there fingers very fast and have athletic hands. 

and skill: Obviously, the more skill you have the faster of a cuber you are

in which and individual or team competes against another or others: Obviously we have cubing competitions where people compete against each other. While its often a friendly competition its still a competition. Also cubing to break your past self counts as competition as your competing against your past self, and if you disagree with that statement that playing golf by yourself won't count as a sport.

for entertainment: Cubers find cubing or watching other people cube entertaining.

So yes, cubing can be considered a sport.


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## biscuit (Dec 12, 2015)

Ordway Persyn said:


> An activity Involving physical exertion: In order to cube you are using your fingers and hands (and sometimes feet) to move the cube. Very fast cubers are moving there fingers very fast and have athletic hands.



Using this definition of physical exertion, you could say slap jack/it's superior ERS are sports. It's not a substantial amount of energy exerted as in a sport like basketball. If you cube for 24hrs straight, you will be tired of natural fatigue, but not because you've been cubing.

I'm not saying cubing isn't similar to a sport, it is, but it does not meet all the requirements.


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## Ordway Persyn (Dec 12, 2015)

biscuit said:


> Using this definition of physical exertion, you could say slap jack/it's superior ERS are sports. It's not a substantial amount of energy exerted as in a sport like basketball. If you cube for 24hrs straight, you will be tired of natural fatigue, but not because you've been cubing.
> 
> I'm not saying cubing isn't similar to a sport, it is, but it does not meet all the requirements.



I see where your coming from. I believe there is something called mind sports and cubing is considered one of them. So its not a sport in the sense of athletic sports but In mind sports along with Poker, Chess Etc. Mind sports are basically non-athletic sports.


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## molarmanful (Dec 12, 2015)

Cubing is a way of life. We are one with the cube, and harness its power as representatives of the Cubing World Order.


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## biscuit (Dec 12, 2015)

Ordway Persyn said:


> I see where your coming from. I believe there is something called mind sports and cubing is considered one of them. So its not a sport in the sense of athletic sports but In mind sports along with Poker, Chess Etc. Mind sports are basically non-athletic sports.



I'm fine with calling it a mind sport, as long as the mind part of it is not dropped. Same with E-sports. They are not traditional sports, but they are similar.


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## SpeedSkewber (Feb 12, 2016)

*Is Cubing a Sport?*

Is cubing a sport? Two major definitions of the word exist
"an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment"
and or
"an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc."
Depending on the definition, other things like poker or pool could be sports? 
This is all being asked because I have a meeting with other members of my school's Cubing Club with the District Athletic Administration, and we need a good argument to present. Could anyone help? If this can happen, the Cubing Club (of 12) will become a Cubing Team 
Wouldn't this help expand the community too, due to it offering a Sport (P.E, athletic etc.) credit, giving drive for other kids to learn and go out for a team. This may in the end help the kids that aren't as well rounded and lack in athletics.
Don't forget, the brain is a muscle too!


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## crafto22 (Feb 12, 2016)

SpeedSkewber said:


> Is cubing a sport? Two major definitions of the word exist
> "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment"
> and or
> "an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc."
> ...



A very short answer for this one: no.

Don't call yourself a cubing athlete, because non-cubers will kill you.


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## obelisk477 (Feb 12, 2016)

My best definition, personally, for what a sport is:

Two simultaneously opposing (playing together at the same time) teams/persons that have the ability to affect the other teams/persons ability to score in whatever metric the 'sport' in question is scored in.

So no, cubing is not a sport according to that definition. But that's my definition


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## SpeedSkewber (Feb 12, 2016)

obelisk477 said:


> My best definition, personally, for what a sport is:
> 
> Two simultaneously opposing (playing together at the same time) teams/persons that have the ability to affect the other teams/persons ability to score in whatever metric the 'sport' in question is scored in.
> 
> So no, cubing is not a sport according to that definition. But that's my definition



By this, golf, swimming and bowling wouldn't be a sport either?


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## WACWCA (Feb 12, 2016)

SpeedSkewber said:


> By this, golf, swimming and bowling wouldn't be a sport either?


I was thinking the same thing, by his definition running isnt even a sport


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## NewCuber000 (Feb 12, 2016)

Sorry but it really isnt a sport, and it really shouldnt count as an athletic credit XD. 
Although, one thing about cubing is if your group participates in compeitions then it is competitive... so you could sort of consider it a team. Is there any other benefits to it being considered a sport besides the P.E credit?


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## SpeedSkewber (Feb 12, 2016)

NewCuber000 said:


> Sorry but it really isnt a sport, and it really shouldnt count as an athletic credit XD.
> Although, one thing about cubing is if your group participates in compeitions then it is competitive... so you could sort of consider it a team. Is there any other benefits to it being considered a sport besides the P.E credit?



Not many other benefits, it may grab college attention, but only due to it being so unique. It is unlikely scholarships could come from it.


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## CubesOfTheWorld (Feb 12, 2016)

I always look at questions like this (e.g. Is League of Legends a sport?) the same way. I don't apply any definition of a sport, so I don't squish or stretch any existing definition to its bounds to include something that I may take as seriously as a sport. Although it seems childish and lazy to forgo any definitions, I don't think that there should be much though put into deciding whether something is a sport. In my own very subjective opinion, speedcubing (and League of Legends, as in my example) is not a sport. It just does not seem similar enough to tradition sports in my mind to be considered a sport. However, this does not mean that it should be demeaned for not having the status as a "sport." 
So rather than using the word "sport" to uplift cubing, I'd prefer that people understand cubing as a regular hobby and be open-minded to how seriously some people may take it, because it's satisfying and fun.


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## SpeedSkewber (Feb 12, 2016)

CubesOfTheWorld said:


> I always look at questions like this (e.g. Is League of Legends a sport?) the same way. I don't apply any definition of a sport, so I don't squish or stretch any existing definition to its bounds to include something that I may take as seriously as a sport. Although it seems childish and lazy to forgo any definitions, I don't think that there should be much though put into deciding whether something is a sport. In my own very subjective opinion, speedcubing (and League of Legends, as in my example) is not a sport. It just does not seem similar enough to tradition sports in my mind to be considered a sport. However, this does not mean that it should be demeaned for not having the status as a "sport."
> So rather than using the word "sport" to uplift cubing, I'd prefer that people understand cubing as a regular hobby and be open-minded to how seriously some people may take it, because it's satisfying and fun.



This was exactly what I was looking for, someone who made a real argument back to me 
(Just trying to keep this going) You said "It just does not seem similar enough to tradition sports in my mind" poker was added to the Olympics on 2012 if I'm not mistaken, so do you thing the cubing community would just have to wait a while before more hobbies start to be seen as sports before we try to push cubing through as one?


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## Seanliu (Feb 12, 2016)

In my definition, a sport is something that can be competitive. Memory Sports, Basketball, throwing the piece of paper into the bin over there... They can all be defined as a sport. However, I think we should see what the Oxford Dictionary has to say:

*An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment:*
team sports such as soccer and rugby
[MASS NOUN]: I used to play a lot of sport
(as modifier sports) a sports centre

As you can see, speed cubing is a sport. First of all, SpeedCubing requires physical exertion (to turn the cube, though this can be debatable), and skill, which isn't debatable. In competitions, individuals (or teams in TeamBLD) compete against one another, for entertainment.

This is probably a valid argument, though feel free to correct me.


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## joshsailscga (Feb 12, 2016)

Wasn't there a thread very similar to this recently?

Cubing is a mind sport, like chess. Those who are saying cubing requires physical exertion, so does reading because you have to hold the book. However, your brain is incredibly active during cubing practice. 

Obelisk477, your definition is for a game. Physical 'sports' are composed of two categories, competitions and games. The difference is whether or not other people can interfere with you. E.g., a track meet is a competition, not a game, but basketball is a game.


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## biscuit (Feb 12, 2016)

WACWCA said:


> I was thinking the same thing, by his definition running isnt even a sport



Well actually running would be a sport under that definition. You can seriously affect the other runners (especially in cross country) based on how you run your race, and the better you score, the worse they score (and I don't mean relatively, if you get a higher position, they score less.)

And no. Cubing is not a sport. Look at my previous posts on this thread for my arguments. I've made all of them 3 or 4 times.


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## CubesOfTheWorld (Feb 12, 2016)

SpeedSkewber said:


> This was exactly what I was looking for, someone who made a real argument back to me
> (Just trying to keep this going) You said "It just does not seem similar enough to tradition sports in my mind" poker was added to the Olympics on 2012 if I'm not mistaken, so do you thing the cubing community would just have to wait a while before more hobbies start to be seen as sports before we try to push cubing through as one?



Yeah, I think that cubing could be considered a sport if comparable activities are also considered as such. As Bobby Fischer said about chess, it's "a sport for the mind," and I would distinguish chess and cubing from the realm of tradition sports. If the International Olympic Committee decides to assume many of these activities into the Olympics, then I will probably accept their authority. However, I just don't think that very many of these "sports for the mind" will become official Olympic sports.


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## TommyGo (Feb 10, 2017)

There are many sports about mental capability, such as Chess, Go and E-sports. I think Cubing could also be a sport. 
Cubing contains many events, and each of them tests different abilities. 
e.g. speed solving tests reaction, coordination between brain and fingers, long-term memory, fast observation and etc. (like E-sports)
Fewest moves tests spatial imagination and logical reasoning. (even much harder than Chess)
Blindfolded tests short-term memory and spatial imagination.
There are even more events than any other sports. In fact, I think Cubing is much a sport more than a game. How do you think?


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## uyneb2000 (Feb 10, 2017)

I think it's down to judgment, I can see arguments on why it should and shouldn't be a sport, and I think it's one of those that would definitely fall in some gray matter. Personally, I don't really see it as a sport, but it is definitely competitive. Of course, I respect if others think it's a sport, as I totally get why people would think so


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## shadowslice e (Feb 10, 2017)

Cubing is a sport. Just not a sport.


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## Loiloiloi (Feb 10, 2017)

If speedstacking is considered a sport (which many consider it to be) then speedcubing is definitely a sport


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## allanboss131 (Feb 10, 2017)

Speedcubing does not require physical exertion at all. It is not a sport.


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## GenTheThief (Feb 10, 2017)

I'm not going to argue, I just found something that Jason Baum said awhile ago in this thread.


Jason Baum said:


> Well, I think there are different kinds of sports. There are athletic sports (hockey, football, etc), mental sports (any type of memory sport), musical sports (DCI) and other kinds. The common factor in all of these is that they involve competition. Anything that is competitive can be a sport. Now, we are not athletes just because we cube competitively. But just because we're not athletes doesn't mean that what we do isn't a sport. There is a difference between sports and athletics.
> 
> This is just my opinion of course. When most people here the word sport they think hockey, baseball, basketball, football, soccer (the REAL football). I just think that the word sport is not limited to athletics.


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## biscuit (Feb 10, 2017)

Cubing is a competitive activity. A sport is a competitive activity that takes "physical exertion and skill". Cubing take skill yes, but is not physically demanding. Definition according to google. 

"an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."

To people talking about Chess, Go or whatever else, just because some people consider it a sport does NOT make it a sport. And there's nothing wrong with that. 

Doing to much cubing and not enough physical exercise (which I'm definitely guilty of) is a problem. But so is the reverse! (Substitute Cubing with any sort of mental stimulation). You need both, but they aren't the same.


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## Chree (Feb 10, 2017)

If I can borrow a term that I heard in this talk by Steven Pinker, I think "sports" can qualify as a "fuzzy category", or Family Resemblance category. Much in the same way any single definition of the word "game" will exclude many of the individual examples of games we can think of, a broader set of definitions is needed to capture everything.

Beginning of discussion of classical categories 
Introduction of Family Resemblance categories
The whole talk is really interesting, recommended.

Some people here have picked out some examples of activities that are commonly accepted as sports that don't fit a definition including any reference to physical exertion. That's the key point that shows that we should consider a broader definition of "sport", and one that I think speedcubing can fall into. Like cup stacking, darts, bowling, golf, poker, e-sports (I mean, why even put the world "sports" in the name if it isn't a sport); skill is definitely required to be competitive, but breaking a sweat is not. But I'm not about to walk up to the World Champion of Darts and say "what you do is not a sport". Not because I think he can beat me up, but because I believe that darts IS a sport based my acceptance of the category "sport" as a fuzzy one.

Personally, I'd be willing to accept that most organized, competitive games/activities can qualify as a sport. We call the game of basketball a sport, but maybe we'd hesitate to call "dunking a basketball" a sport. However, as soon as people start a side competition to see who's the best dunker, they're created a whole new sport that requires far less physical exertion.

On that note, can we get REALLY pedantic and start arguing the definition of physical exertion? DISCUSS.


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## aybuck37 (Feb 22, 2017)

Why not both


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## iShruthi (May 2, 2018)

A little bit of background before I get more into this topic. Yesterday, as I was sitting in gym class, our coach was prepping us for finals. She explained 6 components that all sports have, Speed, Coordination, Reaction Time, Power, Balance, and Agility. As she explained each sport, I began to wonder if speed-cubing is a sport. Based on these components, we can hopefully draw a conclusion to this topic. 
Alright, so let's get into this topic. I've seen many YouTube videos on this topic, consulted friends, and seen forum posts. The verdict depends based on a person's views. Speed-cubing may not be an athletic sport, but can be a mind sport. The definition of a sport is a competitive activity which improves skills. Sports can be either athletic or relate to the mind. They still involve skill, and competition. Take chess for example, there are championships in chess, and chess involves strategy and skill. 
Let's get into the components now. Speed is obviously a factor in speed-cubing, because you are attempting to complete an activity in the fastest amount of time. This obviously makes speed a factor in speed-cubing. Coordination describes the ability to use senses with body parts. In baseball, you see the ball, and have to hit it in the right amount of time and correctly. Speed-cubing does have this component because, when you recognize a case, your fingers immediately act on the case and perform the needed algorithms for the case. This is a good example of hand-eye coordination. Agility is debatable, because it's changing direction while maintaining motion. However the mental definition is the ability to think and understand quickly. This applies in F2L and Cross, because you need to inspect the cube and get an intuitive understanding on how to do it. You think about where pieces go, and how to get them there. Also, while using look ahead, you can spot pieces and plan your next moves. Reaction time obviously applies to cubing. When dealing with reaction time there is a stimuli, and your reaction. In cubing, the stimuli can be a case for F2L, OLL, or PLL, or it can be the timer. The moment you start the timer, you need to start solving. If you have a fast reaction time, you will immediately begin the solve when you start the timer. But sometimes you may wait a second and then begin. I could go on and on about this, but I'd rather not. For balance, you try to maintain a stable composition while in an unusual position. Like, balancing on one leg, or standing on your toes. For cubing, as you do these finger tricks and rotations you need to balance the cube in your hands as your hands are moving. You try not to drop the cube on the ground. Finally for power, you try to move your fingers swiftly and fast when executing algorithms on the cube. 
In conclusion, speed-cubing can be considered a sport. It matches all the necessary components and has many benefits. Some include, improving mental agility, hand-eye coordination, and dexterity. It gives your hand muscles a workout and can possibly be combined with any sport possible. Feel free to leave your comments and opinions on this topic, I'd be happy to read and respond to them.


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## WombatWarrior17 (May 2, 2018)

This an interesting view of the topic.
I personally don't think it's a sport, mainly because the definition of a sport (straight from Google) is: "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.".

Now, of course, you could argue that cubing is physically exerting, your hands may get a bit tired after a couple hundred solves, but IMO, that is not that exerting.

Speedcubing also isn't that fun to watch, so the "for entertainment" part of the definition doesn't really fit.

These are the same reasons why I don't think chess is a sport.

This is my view on it, of course. If you think it's a sport, then cool; if you don't, then still cool.


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## iShruthi (May 2, 2018)

WombatWarrior17 said:


> This an interesting view of the topic.
> I personally don't think it's a sport, mainly because the definition of a sport (straight from Google) is: "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.".
> 
> Now, of course, you could argue that cubing is physically exerting, your hands may get a bit tired after a couple hundred solves, but IMO, that is not that exerting.
> ...



I respect your views as well, but speed-cubing is more of a mind sport than a physical sport, which are still sports. So that's what I feel about it.


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## RedJack22 (May 2, 2018)

Yeah I wouldn't go so far to say that cubing is a sport. Now Sport Stacking (also called Speed Stacking or Cup Stacking) is, as when I did it I sweat like crazy!


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## WombatWarrior17 (May 2, 2018)

iShruthi said:


> I respect your views as well, but speed-cubing is more of a mind sport than a physical sport, which are still sports. So that's what I feel about it.


I can see that, but just calling it a sport doesn't work since that goes back to the definition of a sport. But I would agree that it is a mind sport.


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