# Last Layer times? PLL, OLL, COLL, etc



## Hadley4000 (Dec 22, 2009)

I just timed all my PLLs, and averaged them out. So my average PLL time is 1.93 seconds.

What are y'alls average PLL times?


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## Edward (Dec 22, 2009)

~2 seconds without lockups.


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## thiJUMBA (Dec 22, 2009)

ima noob, 10-8 seconds... using a 2 look last layer... (hate N perms)


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## Ranzha (Dec 22, 2009)

thiJUMBA said:


> ima noob, 10-8 seconds... using a 2 look last layer... (hate N perms)



You said it, mah brutha.
N perms are the pits. Even the algs I found for them aren't fluid.


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## rubiknewbie (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes N perms are among the most difficult!


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## Weston (Dec 22, 2009)

Ua 0.90
Ub 0.82
H 0.80
Z 1.15
T 0.95
Ra 1.30
Rb 1.30
Na 2.00
Nb 2.20
Aa 1.00
Ab 1.20
E 1.30
Ja 1.05
Jb 0.95
F 1.80
Y 1.40
V 1.40
Ga 1.40
Gb 1.60
Gc 1.30
Gd 1.60

Average turned out to be 1.31
While I was timing these, I realized that I can do a T perm sub .9.
Of course, these times are nowhere near the times of what I actually do in solves. These are just averages of 5 attempts.

I also realized that some of my algs suck.


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## rubiknewbie (Dec 22, 2009)

You guys are insane. I am satisfied if I can get a perm around 3 sec except the U perms :fp.


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## Kian (Dec 22, 2009)

1.18, 1.17, 1.27, 2.23, 1.37, 1.37, 1.37, 1.32, 1.40, 1.95, 2.45, 2.95, 2.64, 1.81, 2.87, 2.00, 2.23, 2.16, 2.54, 1.90, 2.31

Average- 1.93, too.

The disparity of those times is concerning.


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## qqwref (Dec 22, 2009)

2.259 mean of 21.

Since I usually sub50 my PLL attacks (often sub45) I think I am wasting too much time starting and stopping the timer when I time algs individually. Oh well.

Also, my best time for any PLL ever is, like, 1.3? I dunno how people do algs megafast.


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## Sin-H (Dec 22, 2009)

mean: 1.24

I didn't take my best time, I just did each PLL a few times and took a run without lockup (they are near my best times, though  )

Accw: 1.16
Acw: 1.28
E: 1.61
Uccw: 0.84 (I can do it in 0.70 )
Ucw: 0.88
H: 1.07
Z: 1.35
T: 0.96
J: 0.91
L: 1.18
Ra: 1.38
Rb: 1.47
Y: 1.27
V: 1.25
F: 1.41
better N (R' U R U'...): 1.50
worse N (L U' R...): 1.53
G (R2 u...): 1.18
G (L2 u'...): 1.33
G (R U R'...): 1.25
G (R' U' R...): 1.27


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## aronpm (Dec 22, 2009)

My LL is atrociously slow. I got something like 3.16 as an average, sans N perms. The only algorithms that I can really sub-2 are the edge 3-cycles and the H perm. I did an average of 12 of LS + LL scrambles as well, and got something like 12 seconds.

I'll learn the N perms over Christmas, because it's pretty boring, and start doing time attacks. I probably won't even start full OLL until 2011, simply because next year will be extremely hectic at school.


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## Weston (Dec 22, 2009)

0.88 
Look at mah sexy T perms. I should start on working on getting times like these in actual solves. lol


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## PhillipEspinoza (Dec 22, 2009)

Accw: 0.99
Acw: 1.10
E: 1.31
Uccw: 0.84 
Ucw: 0.95
H: 0.97 
Z: 1.26
T: 1.06 I suck at T-perms
J: 1.03
L: 1.05
Ra: 1.17
Rb: 1.44
Y: 1.41
V: 1.42
F: 1.52
better N (R' U R U'...): 1.72
worse N (L U' R...): 1.64
G (R2 u...): 1.48
G (L2 u'...): 1.64
G (R U R'...): 1.43
G (F' U' F...): 1.36

avg: 1.2757

Those damn N and G perms.


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## cmhardw (Dec 22, 2009)

You guys are calculating weighted averages right? Each PLL doesn't have the same chance to occur, so you shouldn't do a standard average.

Chris


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## Spitfire97 (Dec 22, 2009)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> thiJUMBA said:
> 
> 
> > ima noob, 10-8 seconds... using a 2 look last layer... (hate N perms)
> ...



R U R' U ( Then J perm)
L' U' L U ( J perm)
or
L' U' L U' ( mirrored J perm)

alll my j perm I hold finished side to left so use an alg that holds it to the left


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## aronpm (Dec 22, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> You guys are calculating weighted averages right? Each PLL doesn't have the same chance to occur, so you shouldn't do a standard average.
> 
> Chris


But a weighted average takes more work than a simple arithmetic mean! 
I'll work out a weighted average for my times, in the morning. It makes more sense, now that you mention it.


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## Sin-H (Dec 22, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> You guys are calculating weighted averages right? Each PLL doesn't have the same chance to occur, so you shouldn't do a standard average.
> 
> Chris


well then, each PLL has 1/18, except for H and Ns which have 1/72 and Z and E which have 1/36.
so we should count all the PLLs 4 times, except for H and Ns just once and Z and E twice 

and then there's one PLL that has a chance of 1/72 and 0.00  (AUF not included)


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## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Dec 22, 2009)

I did means of 12
Uccw: 1.62
Ucw:1.60
Accw:2.01
Acw:1.99
T:1.79
J:1.71
L:1.92
G[R U R']:2.37
G[R2 u' R]:2.47
G[R' U' R]:2.12
G[R2 u R']:2.24
Na:3.4 ._.
Nb:2.87
R:2.52
R:2.53
V:2.47
F:2.15
E:2.39
H:1.62
Z:1.98
Y:2.02
Things I learned: I can sub 1.9 Z Y F E V perm ​


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## nlCuber22 (Dec 22, 2009)

Wow. My U perms are barely sub 1. And my T-Perms are barely sub 2


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## AdvanceFIN (Dec 22, 2009)

I got a mean of 1.60 seconds. Everything else was sub 2 except the Ns.


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## fanwuq (Dec 22, 2009)

My best averages of 12 over the past year:

```
Uccw	0.92
Ucw	1.01
J1	1.31
H	1.16
Z	1.28
T	1.35
Accw	1.27
R1	1.3
J2	1.45
Y	1.63
Acw	1.57
V	1.86
E	1.9
R2	1.85
G2	2.11
G1	1.93
G1'	2.1
F	1.96
N2	2.06
G2'	2.23
N1	2.26
```
Overall unweighted average: 1.64

Edit: Some of these times are outdated. 
I'm probably faster now on J, H, T, A, V but slower on E, R1, F.


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## CitricAcid (Dec 22, 2009)

Around a Second and a half on all of them.
That is, unless I screw up.


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## FatBoyXPC (Dec 22, 2009)

Since I 2LPLL my PLL is anywhere between 2-3sec and up to 5-6 seconds. My LL as a whole (often 4 look) cane take anywhere from 5 seconds (had as low as 4, 1 look OLL and 1 look PLL both easy cases too) to 10-15 seconds. I hate my LL. It seems when I get a nice F2L (for me it's nice hah) around 15 I'll have a 15 second LL, when I should be breaking 30 every time I F2L a 15. And it seems whenever I get a 20-22 second F2L I get a 5 second LL.


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## Piotr (Dec 22, 2009)

With no warm up. I did avg's of 5 for each PLL.

E: 1.28
U1: 1.06
U2: 1.10
A1: 1.20
A2: 1.18

J1: 1.15
J2: 1.21
G1: 1.37
G2: 1.40
G3: 1.35

G4: 1.33
N1: 1.49
N2: 1.50
H: 0.95
Z: 1.25

F: 1.40 
R1: 1.27
R2: 1.20
Y: 1.40
T: 1.30

V: 1.30

Mean: 1.27


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 22, 2009)

Mean of 21 PLLs: 3.40
I can now do a PLL time attack in sub-80 seconds, thanks to some big recent improvements in my R and V perms. I wonder if I could actually work really hard on my PLLs and get fast? If so, that would be an awfully easy second or two to cut off my solve times, wouldn't it?



rubiknewbie said:


> You guys are insane. I am satisfied if I can get a perm around 3 sec except the U perms :fp.


Me too. Well, I'm slightly sub-3 on T, H, and J's, and sometimes A's. And my U perms are also only slightly sub-3.



rubiknewbie said:


> 3x3 - PB: 21.53 (20.00); 3 of 5: 26.42; 10 of 12: 27.79; avg 100: 30.56
> Arguably the slowest cuber who knows Full Fridrich


I'm not that far behind. There was a point when I knew full Fridrich and my times were significantly worse than yours are now.


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## Rook (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm a failure at the last layer in general, but here they are anyway. I did an average of 5.

E: 03.91

Ua: 02.57
Ub: 02.49

Aa: 03.89
Ab: 03.63

Ja: 02.69
Jb: 03.61

Ga: 04.22
Gb: 04.05
Gc: 04.53
Gd: 04.47

Na & Nb: Haven't learned any permanent ones.

H: 02.89
Z: 03.98

V: 04.08
F: 05.13

Ra: 03.45
Rb: 05.10

Y: 03.32
T: 02.76

Overall: 3.72

PLL's that I'm definitely going to change are E, Z, F, Rb, and maybe some others if I find better ones. The rest, I just need to practice some more. I could probably shave off half a second+ after my storebought is broken in more. I need to re-lube it soon as well.

~Rook


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## Kian (Dec 22, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> You guys are calculating weighted averages right? Each PLL doesn't have the same chance to occur, so you shouldn't do a standard average.
> 
> Chris



Ha, I didn't even think of that! Either way I have an average of slow, though.


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## Weston (Dec 22, 2009)

Kian said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are calculating weighted averages right? Each PLL doesn't have the same chance to occur, so you shouldn't do a standard average.
> ...




So can I weight my EPLLs more since I use COLL?


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## JustinJ (Dec 22, 2009)

These aren't averages, I just kinda went until I didn't lock up. Mean of 21 was 1.30

A: 0.84
A: 0.84
E: 1.19
F: 1.90
G's: 1.27, 1.22, 1.97, 1.46
H: 1.03
Jb: 1.06
Ja: 0.97
Right Bar N: 1.74
Left Bar N: 1.84
Good R: 1.16
Bad R: 1.63
T: 1.25
U counter: 0.97
U: 0.94
V: 1.38
Y: 1.58
Z: 1.05


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## Kyle Barry (Dec 23, 2009)

H - 1.29
N1 - 2.31
N2 - 2.25
G1 - 2.05
G2 - 2.01
G3 - 2.11
G4 - 2.07
E - 2.12
F - 2.21
V - 1.81
A1 - 1.34
A2 - 1.56
U1 - 1.05
U2 - 1.25
Z - 1.84
T - 1.39
J1 - 1.35
J2 - 1.33
R1 - 1.71
R2 - 2.23
Y - 1.91

mean - 1.77

Yikes. Some of these kill me.


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## Sa967St (Dec 23, 2009)

I did an avg5 (re-doing ones with lockups) for each PLL

H 1.44
Ua 1.08
Ub 1.10
Z 1.52
Aa 1.05
Ab 1.37
E 2.18
F 1.58
Ga 1.63
Gb 1.87 
Gc 1.38
Gd 1.58
Ja 0.95
Jb 1.17
Na 1.99
Nb 1.82
Ra 1.59
Rb 1.34
T 1.17
V 1.53
Y 1.54


the mean is 1.44


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## fanwuq (Dec 23, 2009)

Sa967St said:


> H 1.44
> F 1.48
> the mean is 1.44



Why the sad face? It's a very fast average! Why is your F so fast and H so slow?


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## Sa967St (Dec 23, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Sa967St said:
> 
> 
> > H 1.44
> ...



I suck at H.

edit: F should have been 1.58


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## lilkdub503 (Dec 23, 2009)

qqwref said:


> 2.259 mean of 21.
> 
> Since I usually sub50 my PLL attacks (often sub45) I think I am wasting too much time starting and stopping the timer when I time algs individually. Oh well.
> 
> Also, my best time for any PLL ever is, like, 1.3? I dunno how people do algs megafast.



I'm with qqwref. Seriously, how do people have such fast finishes. I'll come back and edit in my averages (not weighted), but I have to know how people do that so fast. I usually start with the cube out of my hands, with no recog time on badmephisto's PLL trainer. Maybe that's why my T is only ~2.5 seconds, and I average out to 3.0-3.5, but I average low 20's. But I have found that my attacks are really crappy (63-65).



Spoiler



Corners_Three_Cycle_Clockwise_(A1):_____avg: 3.32, std: 0.47, num: 22
Corners_Three_Cycle_Anti-Clockwise_(A2):avg: 4.14, std: 0.70, num: 30
Parallel_Corners_Swap_(E):______________avg: 4.32, std: 0.42, num: 15
Adjacent_Edges_Swap_(Z):________________avg: 3.73, std: 0.76, num: 9
Opposite_Edges_Swap_(H):________________avg: 2.57, std: 0.51, num: 8
Edges_Three_Cycle_Anti-Clockwise_(U1):__avg: 3.00, std: 0.64, num: 23
Edges_Three_Cycle_Clockwise_(U2):_______avg: 2.84, std: 0.34, num: 20
Push_Push_(Jb):_________________________avg: 3.21, std: 0.48, num: 19
Push_Push_Upside_Down_(Ja):_____________avg: 2.96, std: 0.65, num: 31
T_perm_(T):_____________________________avg: 2.95, std: 0.72, num: 25
Lucky_7_(Rb):__________________________avg: 3.84, std: 0.40, num: 17
Lucky_7_Upside-Down_(Ra):______________avg: 3.94, std: 0.48, num: 35
Parallell_Lines_(F):___________________avg: 4.15, std: 0.52, num: 23
Edges+Corners_Three_Cycle_(Gc):________avg: 3.85, std: 0.38, num: 19
Edges+Corners_Three_Cycle_(Ga):________avg: 3.90, std: 0.62, num: 29
Edges+Corners_Three_Cycle_(Gb):________avg: 4.47, std: 0.67, num: 28
Edges+Corners_Three_Cycle_(Gd):________avg: 4.01, std: 0.93, num: 18
V_Perm_(V):____________________________avg: 3.56, std: 0.42, num: 28
N_Perm_(Na):___________________________avg: 4.84, std: 0.21, num: 2
N_Perm_(Nb):___________________________avg: 4.60, std: 0.58, num: 5
Y_Perm_(Y):____________________________avg: 3.70, std: 0.80, num: 24
Total Average: 3.89



What I decided to go was include the recognition time, but have the cube in my hands because that's how you start a PLL. Sorry it took me so long to do this. I actually immediately thought of my PLL attacks because I am scraping 60. So can I say I'm exactly three with about .9 seconds of recognition?


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## Squeek (Dec 23, 2009)

Yeah, my average for PLLs are probably ~2.5 seconds. And since I average about 15 seconds, that's pretty sad.


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## rubiknewbie (Dec 23, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> Mean of 21 PLLs: 3.40
> I can now do a PLL time attack in sub-80 seconds, thanks to some big recent improvements in my R and V perms. I wonder if I could actually work really hard on my PLLs and get fast? If so, that would be an awfully easy second or two to cut off my solve times, wouldn't it?
> 
> 
> ...



What is more important is that I lock up often and can end up with PLLs of 5-7 sec. Like T perm locks up easily for me. I am learning to control my strength better.

I would really like to see Dan Brown's PLL times.


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## Sa967St (Dec 23, 2009)

rubiknewbie said:


> I would really like to see Dan Brown's PLL times.


 ummm, I'm pretty sure he doesn't know any PLLs.


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## rubiknewbie (Dec 23, 2009)

lilkdub503 said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > 2.259 mean of 21.
> ...



Ya what the hell is going on?! Why is everyone doing sub-2 like nobody's business ? 

But you should start with the cube in hand for this test, I think the aim is to see execution rather than recog.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Dec 23, 2009)

2.97 >.> The G's drove up my average. Most of them are around 2.25-2.50, which I still don't think is as fast as I want them to be. Oh well


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## Anthony (Dec 23, 2009)

rubiknewbie said:


> Ya what the hell is going on?! Why is everyone doing sub-2 like nobody's business ?



Because it's easy. I would assume that most sub 15 cubers can sub 2 most, if not all, PLLs.


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## Rubixcubematt (Dec 23, 2009)

Anthony said:


> rubiknewbie said:
> 
> 
> > Ya what the hell is going on?! Why is everyone doing sub-2 like nobody's business ?
> ...



Yeah, I'm not one of them :fp


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## HaraldS (Dec 23, 2009)

1.67, 1.99, 2.58, 1.71, 1.66, 1.69, 2.57, 1.68, 1.55, 1.87, 1.96, 2.20, 2.54, 2.33, 2.77, 2.67, 2.51, 2.35, 2.42, 2.35, 2.27

avg and mean=2.16sec


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## Novriil (Dec 23, 2009)

Ua: 1.42
Ub: 1.39
Z: 2.41
H: 1.49
Aa: 1.59
Ab: 2.00
E: 1.92
Ra: 2.13
Rb: 1.97
Ja: 1.13
Jb: 1.53
Na: 2.91
Nb: 3.04
F: 2.20
V: 1.86
T: 1.23
Y: 1.74
Ga: 1.96
Gb: 2.16
Gc: 2.17
Gd: 1.98

Mean: 1.89

nice.. I love J perms.. and I hate N perms.


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## CubesOfTheWorld (Dec 23, 2009)

5 seconds


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## yogonu (Dec 23, 2009)

I wish I knew how some of you get them so fast.


Mean= 2.64

Aa 2.22
Ab 2.16
Ua 1.59
Ub 1.68
Ga 3.41
Gb 3.08
Gc 2.91
Gd 3.38
F 2.94
Na 3.38
Nb 3.46
V 2.77
Ra 2.90
Rb 2.52
H 2.19
Z 2.84
Ja 1.96
Jb 2.31
T 2.11
E 3.09
Y 2.64


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## Robert-Y (Dec 23, 2009)

For corner PLLs (not including H perm): I'd recommend this:


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## miniGOINGS (Dec 24, 2009)

Weston said:


> So can I weight my EPLLs more since I use COLL?



Yes, and remember to account for EPLL skips.


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## rubiknewbie (Dec 24, 2009)

For more humanly PLL times:

Ua	1.60
Ub	1.64
H	2.11
Z	2.65
T	2.52
Ra	3.14
Rb	2.85
Na	3.73
Nb	3.74
Aa	2.05
Ab	2.36
E	2.95
Ja	2.07
Jb	1.94
F	3.11
Y	2.64
V	2.71
Ga	3.02
Gb	2.92
Gc	3.45
Gd	2.97

Average: 2.67
Weighted average: 2.60


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## guitardude7241 (Dec 24, 2009)

U:1.74
U:1.42
H:1.47
Z:2.23
A:1.62
A:1.67
E:2.59
G:2.24
G:2.36
G:2.38
G:2.40
J:1.64
J:1.12
N:2.45
N:2.54
R:2.16
R:2.28
T:1.57
V:2.61
Y:1.72


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## flee135 (Dec 24, 2009)

H 2.07
Ua 1.25
Ub 1.69
Z 2.79
Aa 1.90
Ab 1.75
E 2.53
F 2.43
Ga 2.30
Gb 2.38
Gc 2.37
Gd 2.16
Ja 1.64
Jb 1.80
Na 2.96
Nb 2.97
Ra 2.15
Rb 1.69
T 1.63
V 2.49
Y 2.38

Mean of 21: 2.16

Lol @ my H and Z perm. I'm just glad my N perms are sub-3. I average about 15.50 for speedsolving.


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## blah (Dec 24, 2009)

I suck.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 24, 2009)

blah said:


> I suck.



Pffft. You're silly.


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## Sebastian-1 (Dec 24, 2009)

1.41 Ub
1.67 Ua
1.76 H
1.66 Ab
1.83 Aa
1.64 T
2.31 F
2.24 V
2.44 Nb 
2.14 Na
1.75 Rb
2.46 Ra
2.58 Ga
2.48 Gb
2.12 Gc
2.22 Gd
2.31 E
2.20 Z
1.83 Jb
1.55 Ja
1.94 Y
*Average: *2.03


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## Cyrus C. (Dec 24, 2009)

Ua - 1.61
Ub - 1.80
H - 2.45
Z - 2.57
Aa - 2.48
Ab - 2.29
F - 3.17
E - 3.12
Gx - 2.91
Gx - 2.50
Gx - 2.49
Gx - 2.89
T - 1.82
Y - 2.98
V - 4.13
Ja - 2.22
Jb - 2.02
Na - 3.45
Nb - ???
Rx -2.44
Rx - 2.47
Avg. - 2.59

Man I really need to work on some of these.


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## DavidWoner (Dec 25, 2009)

Ucw- .96
Uccw- .93
H- .90
Z- 1.11
Acw- .96
Accw- 1.30
J- 1.19
L- 1.08
G- 1.50
G- 1.50
G- 1.53
G- 1.41
R- 1.37
R- 1.77
T- 1.13
F- 1.89
V- 1.69
E- 1.78
Y- 1.66
N- 1.71
N- 1.84

Sum= 29.21
Mean= 1.39

wtf...


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## nlCuber22 (Dec 29, 2009)

I got a .90+2 (lol, off by M') H Perm on camera as well as a 0.96 (?) at CitricAcid's house today. It should be on YouTube soon. 

I will do a mean of 21 in a few minutes here.


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## Muesli (Dec 29, 2009)

nlCuber22 said:


> I got a .90+2 (lol, off by M')



That's a DNF I'm afraid.


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## nlCuber22 (Dec 29, 2009)

Musli4brekkies said:


> nlCuber22 said:
> 
> 
> > I got a .90+2 (lol, off by M')
> ...



Ah, darn. It was close though. And I got a 0.77 just now anyway. xD


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## cubeslayer (Jun 19, 2011)

~3.15 s 

( I know this is an old thread, but I chose the lesser of two evils by searching the forums and bumping an old thread than starting a new one).


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## retep (Mar 16, 2012)

*PLL times*

So I recently broke down my solves and noticed that my PLL times were quite bad (worse than my 2 look OLL times), so I decided to really drill them (and learn new algs for some of the cases) until I got sub 4 for all the PLLs. Here are my results using Badmephisto's pll trainer (averages were taken using 30 executions each, sorted in ascending order):

T avg: 2.26
J (b) avg: 2.39
U1 (ccw) avg: 2.41
U2 (c) avg: 2.48
A1(c) avg: 2.65
G (d) avg: 2.69
H avg: 2.96
G (a) avg: 2.96
A2(ccw) avg: 2.97 
J (a) (L) avg: 3.03
Y avg: 3.09
R(b) avg: 3.19
G (c) avg: 3.21
G (b) avg: 3.24
V avg: 3.24
F avg: 3.45
R(a) avg: 3.54
E avg: 3.57
Z avg: 3.87
N (a) avg: 3.88
N (b) avg: 3.96

Total Average: 3.25

So I was just wondering do these seem like decent execution times for the algs? (I have seen videos of people sub 1ing the plls and in the last layer competition on these forums people are getting times for the entire last layer lower than some of my execution times for the plls alone...) 
Are there any that seem particularly bad that I am probably finger tricking poorly or maybe using a bad alg for?
Also, somewhat related, what is like a typical F2L to last layer ratio? For me F2L takes about 20 seconds and last layer about 10 (of course rather roughly rounded) but is this 2:1 ratio typical?


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## Ezy Ryder (Mar 16, 2012)

Many cubers (who use CFOP) do the LL faster than F2L. And considering Your total times, I think they are pretty good. But You know, You can always get better.
Ps.: I think I also have a ~(2:1) F2L to LL ratio.


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## Ickenicke (Mar 16, 2012)

I think 2:1 is pretty normal.


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## Escher (Mar 16, 2012)

Don't worry too much about your PLL times imo. If you're going to worry about them at all - practice difficult to recognise cases. Also, your Rb and Ra can probably be a little bit faster, and your Z really shouldn't be that slow. Practice M-slice algs! Learn the <M, U> U perms (M2 U' M U2' M' U' M2 and inv) and practice those too, as you begin to use more advanced algs for OLL etc, being able to use slice moves effectively will be important.

If you have trouble with the style of execution, watch Breandan Vallance's videos, as he has basically flawless technique you'll be copying the best.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that you should practice your f2l! 
Concentrating purely on f2l for a long time (think 10-12s f2l) will help you understand a lot more about good fingertricks and good turning style, and by the time you come to want to break sub 20, all you have to do is drill your LL a bunch 

This way is far more rewarding than getting a fast LL first, imo.


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## Kirjava (Mar 17, 2012)

Oi, rowan. Did you sub1 J yet?


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## Escher (Mar 17, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Oi, rowan. Did you sub1 J yet?


 
Nope, sub 1.10 is easy now though. Need to work on my picking-up skillz.


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## Kirjava (Mar 17, 2012)

I should buy a stackmat and practise.

better than magic


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## antoineccantin (Mar 17, 2012)

1.2ish


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## cityzach (Mar 17, 2012)

under 2 secs for each, most of them are sub 1. normal times are around 1.2 ish


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## emolover (Mar 17, 2012)

Half of them it is under one but for the other half(G, N, V, A) its around 1.7.


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## Riley (Mar 17, 2012)

1.56 was my average of all of them. I average 13.5 secs on 3x3.


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## FinnGamer (Mar 18, 2012)

I have every alg sub 3 (except n -.-) so my avg is about 2.7, excluding recognition.


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## ~Adam~ (Mar 18, 2012)

I can sub 3 all of them and sub 2 Us, M, Z, Js, As and Rs. My T perm sucks though. I guess I should try to learn better finger tricks but I'm just so lazy.


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## NSKuber (Mar 18, 2012)

Executed every alg severeal times to get time without lockup:
cw U: 0.77
ccw U: 0.91
H: 0.69
Z: 0.91
some A: 0.90
other A: 0.94
E: 0.94
Right R: 1.11
Left R: 1.15
G(R U R'): 1.21
G(R2 Uw'): 1.58
G(R' U' R): 1.33
G(R2 Uw): 1.47
Left J: 0.93
Right J: 0.94
N(R U R' D): 1.25
N(R' U R U'): 1.46
T: 0.84
Y: 1.25
F: 1.25
V: 1.34
Average: 1.10(3)


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## Applecow (Mar 18, 2012)

T-Perm 1,07
A-Perm cw 1,03
A-Perm ccw 1,06
U-Perm ccw 0,86
U-Perm cw 1,07
H-Perm 0,91
Z-Perm 1,21
J-Perm 1,04
J-Perm 1,08
V-Perm 1,72
F-Perm 1,63
N-Perm 1,52
N-Perm 1,74
Y-Perm 1,36
E-Perm 1,37
G-Perm 1,34
G-Perm 1,50
G-Perm 1,83
G-Perm 1,81


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## blackzabbathfan (Mar 18, 2012)

Session average: 2.31 Session Mean: 2.31
A. 1.96 
A. 1.94 
E. 2.34 
F. 2.91 
G. (4.44) 
G. 3.21 
G. 2.41 
G. 3.09 
H. 1.46 
Bad J. 2.02 
Good J. 1.40 
Good N. 3.08 
Bad N. (3.58) 
Right Handed R . 2.52 
Left Handed R. 2.47 
T. (1.38) 
CCW U. (1.19) 
CCU. 1.77 
V. 2.72 
Y. 1.61 
Z. 2.30


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## Rpotts (Mar 18, 2012)

I did this back in July11, some have gotten faster since then. I don't have a stackmat anymore, lost at Cubetcha11 :C, so I know a few of those have gotten faster, most notably Ra and probably Na too. I don't really use that Acw anymore either, pretty much only use x' R' U R' etc.

Acw - .82 --- x' R2 D2 R' U' R D2 R' U R' (9, 10.98 TPS)
Accw - .99 -- x R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R (9, 9.09 TPS)
E - .99 ----- x' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D' (16, 16.16 TPS)

CPLL Avg - .9333

Ucw - .74 --- M2' U' M U2' M' U' M2' (11, 14.86 TPS)
Uccw - .85 -- R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 (11, 12.94 TPS)
H - .85 ----- M2' U' M2' U2' M2' U' M2' (11, 12.94 TPS)
Z - .98 ----- M' U' M2' U' M2' U' M' U2' M2' (14, 14.29 TPS)

EPLL Avg - .855

L - .86 ----- x' r U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R (11, 12.79 TPS)
J - .82 ----- R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' (13, 15.85 TPS)
T - .91 ----- R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' (14, 15.38 TPS)
F - 1.53 ---- R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R (18, 11.76 TPS)
Ra - 1.38 --- R U' R' U' R U R D R' U' R D' R' U2 R' (15, 10.87 TPS)
Rb - 1.17 --- R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 (13, 11.11 TPS)

Adj PLL Avg - 1.112

Ga - 1.26 ----- R2 u R' U R' U' R u' R2 y' R' U R (12, 9.53 TPS)
Gb - 1.20 ----- F' U' F R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2 (12, 10 TPS)
Gc - 1.44 ----- R2' u' R U' R U R' u R2 y R U' R' (12, 8.33 TPS)
Gd - 1.33 ----- R U R' y' R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2 (12, 9.02 TPS)

G PLL Avg - 1.3075

Y - 1.19 ----- F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' (17, 14.29 TPS)
V - 1.39 ----- R' U R' U' y R' F' R2 U' R' U R' F R F (14, 10.07 TPS)
Na - 1.44 ---- z R' U R' D R2 U' R U D' R' D R2 U' R D' (15, 10.42 TPS)
Nb - 1.57 ---- R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' U' R U' y R U R' (17, 10.83 TPS)

Diag PLL Avg - 1.3975


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## alfacuber (Mar 18, 2012)

T-Perm 0.86
A-Perm cw 0.83
A-Perm ccw 0.88
U-Perm ccw 0.88
U-Perm cw 0.81
H-Perm 0.86
Z-Perm 1.00
Jb-Perm 0.78
Ja-Perm 1.05
V-Perm 1.33
F-Perm 1.30
Na-Perm 1.44
Nb-Perm 1.05
Y-Perm 1.03
E-Perm 0.81
Ga-Perm 1.08
Gb-Perm 1.02
Gc-Perm 1.25
Gd-Perm 1.15

average: 1.01
so close to sub 1!


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## Kirjava (Mar 19, 2012)

U 0.95
U 1.02
H 1.08
Z 1.30
A 0.83
A 0.96
E 1.30
G 1.34
G 1.83
G 1.88
G 1.99
J 0.90
J 1.05
N 1.98
N 1.93
R 1.25
R 1.71
T 0.88
V 1.55
F 1.98
Y 1.38

lolme


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## Sa967St (Mar 19, 2012)

Sa967St said:


> H 1.44, Ua 1.08, Ub 1.10, Z 1.52, Aa 1.05, Ab 1.37, E 2.18, F 1.58, Ga 1.63, Gb 1.87 , Gc 1.38, Gd 1.58, Ja 0.95, Jb 1.17, Na 1.99, Nb 1.82, Ra 1.59, Rb 1.34, T 1.17, V 1.53, Y 1.54
> 
> The mean is 1.44.


H 1.20
Ua 0.97
Ub 0.78
Z 1.05
Aa 0.84
Ab 0.93
E 1.68
F 1.45
Ga 1.51
Gb 1.12 
Gc 1.32
Gd 1.23
Ja 0.71
Jb 0.78
Na 1.55
Nb 1.80
Ra 1.48
Rb 1.20
T 0.83
V 1.49
Y 1.52

weighted mean: 1.173

All of the times were better than before, but some of them were just barely better. I guess I haven't improved all that much in 3 years.


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## antoineccantin (Mar 19, 2012)

Mean: 1.03


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## RaresB (Mar 20, 2012)

mean : 1.96, how do people have 1 sec pll means but 15 sec avgs, something is wrong there


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## Ninja Storm (Mar 21, 2012)

I have ~1.5 second PLL, but a 16-17.5 second average. I need to work on F2L more ;__;


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## Tao Yu (Mar 21, 2012)

0.98, (0.90), 1.03, 1.10, 1.61, 1.66, 1.77, 1.13, 1.12, 1.22, 1.62, 1.58, 1.54, (1.79), 1.67, 1.21, 1.28, 1.18, 1.27, 1.65, 1.56
UUAARRVHJJGGGGFAZTYNN

1.38 mean


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## RTh (Mar 21, 2012)

Fastest: A-pem 0,57s (single)
Slowest: G-Perm 1,90s (mean)

Mean with best singles of each PLL = 1,03s
Mean with average'd PLLs= 1,43s


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## JianhanC (Feb 25, 2013)

0.59 Aperm, 0.81 Lperm from back, 0.93 Eperm and 0.33 antisune, lol.


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## ben1996123 (Feb 25, 2013)

JianhanC said:


> 0.59 Aperm, 0.81 Lperm from back, 0.93 Eperm and 0.33 antisune, lol.



wideoeo analysis pree


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## arvind1999 (Feb 25, 2013)

JianhanC said:


> 0.59 Aperm, 0.81 Lperm from back, 0.93 Eperm and 0.33 antisune, lol.



WTF? 0.33 antisune and 0.59 A perm? You can't be serious!


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## ben1996123 (Feb 25, 2013)

arvind1999 said:


> WTF? 0.33 antisune and 0.59 A perm? You can't be serious!



sub 0.5 antisune is easy, and people that arent me are fast at A perms.


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## TheNextFeliks (Feb 25, 2013)

JianhanC said:


> 0.59 Aperm, 0.81 Lperm from back, 0.93 Eperm and 0.33 antisune, lol.



Whoa. My best antisune is .82 I think. Is your antisune faster than sune like me?


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## Escher (Feb 25, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> sub 0.5 antisune is easy, and people that arent me are fast at A perms.



Ya although timing is probably sketchy I'm consistently between 0.42-0.55 with A perms nowadays.


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## antoineccantin (Feb 25, 2013)

Escher said:


> Ya although timing is probably sketchy I'm consistently between 0.42-0.55 with A perms nowadays.



How???|

I have a hard time sub-1ing them...


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## yoshinator (Feb 25, 2013)

Escher said:


> Ya although timing is probably sketchy I'm consistently between 0.42-0.55 with A perms nowadays.





antoineccantin said:


> How???|
> 
> I have a hard time sub-1ing them...





TheNextFeliks said:


> Whoa. My best antisune is .82 I think. Is your antisune faster than sune like me?



.33 back sune (I used that instead of antisune)
.53 A-perm, although the timing 
.75 E-perm


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## antoineccantin (Feb 25, 2013)

yoshinator said:


> .33 back sune (I used that instead of antisune)
> .53 A-perm, although the timing
> .75 E-perm



0.75 E-perm for me is was easier than 0.75 A-perm 
(I've already got 0.75 E, but never sub 0.8 A)


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## Escher (Feb 25, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> 0.75 E-perm for me is was easier than 0.75 A-perm
> (I've already got 0.75 E, but never sub 0.8 A)



I do LH double-D2 flick, using ring->pinky. Just practise it a bunch 2H and OH - helped me get my U-perm OH to nearly sub 1 (idr if I have a sub 1 U yet though).


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## antoineccantin (Feb 25, 2013)

Escher said:


> I do LH double-D2 flick, using ring->pinky. Just practise it a bunch 2H and OH - helped me get my U-perm OH to nearly sub 1 (idr if I have a sub 1 U yet though).



Ring->Pinky or Pinky->Ring? The first seems extremely unnatural and weird to me. Right now I do Ring->Middle

My best OH U-perm is 1.0x

edit: 0.75 after a few tries


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## Lchu613 (Feb 25, 2013)

Escher said:


> I do LH double-D2 flick, using ring->pinky. Just practise it a bunch 2H and OH - helped me get my U-perm OH to nearly sub 1 (idr if I have a sub 1 U yet though).


I use ring-middle
I guess it just depends on your hand (my fingers are mostly longer than normal but my pinkies are pretty short)


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## yoshinator (Feb 26, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> 0.75 E-perm for me is was easier than 0.75 A-perm
> (I've already got 0.75 E, but never sub 0.8 A)



.58 E-perm


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## antoineccantin (Feb 26, 2013)

yoshinator said:


> .58 E-perm


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## ben1996123 (Feb 26, 2013)

yoshinator said:


> .58 E-perm



O.M.G.! Thats 27.5862068965517241379310344827repeating tps! Your cube will melt if you go over 30 tps!


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## antoineccantin (Feb 26, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> O.M.G.! Thats 27.5862068965517241379310344827repeating tps! Your cube will melt if you go over 30 tps!



I just did 200 htps ZOMG MIND=BLOW 



Spoiler



M' in 0.01


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## yoshinator (Feb 26, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> I just did 200 htps ZOMG MIND=BLOW
> 
> 
> 
> ...



\


ben1996123 said:


> O.M.G.! Thats 27.5862068965517241379310344827repeating tps! Your cube will melt if you go over 30 tps!



Shut up guys. 


In other news, 43.24 4x4 avg12 wherein I found myself being disapointed with 44s. Progress =D


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## immortalchaos29 (Feb 26, 2013)

Escher said:


> I do LH double-D2 flick, using ring->pinky. Just practise it a bunch 2H and OH - helped me get my U-perm OH to nearly sub 1 (idr if I have a sub 1 U yet though).



This is how I execute my 1.33 avg. A-perm. But it takes me a while to recognize it sometimes. It is easy to confuse with V-perm seen from the front and that can suck with the grip change and x rotation before I realize it's a V! And from the back it looks like G. So in an actual solve I probably average over 2 seconds


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## yoshinator (Feb 26, 2013)

immortalchaos29 said:


> This is how I execute my 1.33 avg. A-perm. But it takes me a while to recognize it sometimes. It is easy to confuse with V-perm seen from the front and that can suck with the grip change and x rotation before I realize it's a V! And from the back it looks like G. So in an actual solve I probably average over 2 seconds



Try doing pinky ring. I think that it's way faster. In fact, I have no idea how one could manage to do ring-pinky fast. Maybe that's just me though.
Also, maybe look into 2-sided PLL recognition.


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## JianhanC (Feb 26, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> wideoeo analysis pree










TheNextFeliks said:


> Whoa. My best antisune is .82 I think. Is your antisune faster than sune like me?



Yup, sunes aren't as nice to execute.


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## ben1996123 (Feb 26, 2013)

JianhanC said:


> [noparse]
> 
> 
> 
> [/noparse]



lol youre doing like half the alg then starting the timer

wideoeo analysis (time starting from when the first turn goes past 45 degrees):

A perm: 0.84
J perm: 0.88
Antisunes: 0.52, 0.56


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## immortalchaos29 (Feb 26, 2013)

yoshinator said:


> Try doing pinky ring. I think that it's way faster. In fact, I have no idea how one could manage to do ring-pinky fast. Maybe that's just me though.
> Also, maybe look into 2-sided PLL recognition.



Maybe. I get the impression most people do pinky ring like you but I've always found ring pinky to be more natural feeling. Could be worth a try. I am learning 2 side PLL recog from Sarah's site. It has been helpful just need to force myself to use it in my solves though...


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## JianhanC (Feb 27, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> lol youre doing like half the alg then starting the timer
> 
> wideoeo analysis (time starting from when the first turn goes past 45 degrees):
> 
> ...



Really? Ah well, I kept trying to minimise pauses, I didn't notice that I start turning before the timer starts. Rowan's 0.4 must be phenomenal.


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## Niv99 (Mar 6, 2013)

3 seconds


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## KongShou (Mar 6, 2013)

why is everyone on here like sub 10? WTF? just make rest of us sub 20s jelaouse(i cant spell)


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## TheNextFeliks (Mar 6, 2013)

2.61 average of ao5 of pll's. 

Us H J and T sub-2.


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## yoshinator (Mar 7, 2013)

2x2: 
Ortega: OLL and PBL are all sub-1 easy.
CLL: Sub-1.5.

3x3
PLL: sub-1 everything I can sub-.5 some stuff
COLL: sub-1.5 everything (except Sune, which I don't know)
OLL: sub-1 except for some like 3 cases where I orient edges then COLL.

4x4
OLL Parity: Sub-2.5 I think. Consistently sub-3
PLL Parity: sub-1


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## antoineccantin (Mar 7, 2013)

yoshinator said:


> 2x2:
> Ortega: OLL and PBL are all sub-1 easy.
> CLL: Sub-1.5.
> 
> ...



Show me a sub-1 F-perm


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## yoshinator (Mar 7, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> Show me a sub-1 F-perm



Look up "all PLLs sub-1" on YouTube. It's really not as hard as it sounds. I can sub-1 with the standard V-perm variation alg and the Setup+Tperm alg.


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## JianhanC (Mar 7, 2013)

yoshinator said:


> Look up "all PLLs sub-1" on YouTube. It's really not as hard as it sounds. I can sub-1 with the standard V-perm variation alg and the Setup+Tperm alg.



try sub1ing this 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKblyM5yjgw


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## Username (Mar 7, 2013)

Did an average of 5 with all PLL's

Aa: 1.14
Ab: 1.55
E: 1.69
F: 2.21
Ga: 2.34
Gb: 2.44
Gc: 2.68
Gd: 2.17
H: 1.56
Ja: 1.65
Jb: 1.44
Na: 3.15
Nb: 2.70
Ra: 2.53
Rb: 1.82
T: 1.43
Ua: 1.34
Ub: 1.29
V: 2.30
Y: 2.00
Z: 2.18


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## ben1996123 (Mar 7, 2013)

Acw: 0.78, 0.78, (0.90), 0.78, (0.78) = 0.78
Accw: (0.69), 0.75, 0.72, 0.71, (0.81) = 0.73
E: 1.00, 0.96, (0.91), 0.94, (1.00) = 0.97
H: 0.77, 0.71, 0.71, (0.81), (0.71) = 0.73
Z: (1.09), 1.02, 1.03, 1.03, (1.00) = 1.03
Ucw (RU): (0.50), 0.53, 0.55, (0.65), 0.55 = 0.54 (probably not accurate though but whomqaars)
Ucw (MU): (0.71), 0.68, 0.69, 0.69, (0.68) = 0.69
Uccw (RU): 0.78, (0.80), 0.78, (0.75), 0.78 = 0.78
Uccw (MU): 0.78, 0.75, 0.78, (0.72), (0.78) = 0.77
Ja: (1.06), 0.93, 0.93, 0.97, (0.88) = 0.94
Jb: 0.75, 0.72, (0.71), (0.80), 0.77 = 0.75
Ra: (1.15), 0.97, (0.93), 1.00, 1.08 = 1.02
Rb: 0.90, (0.88), 1.06, 0.90, (1.06) = 0.95
T: (0.78), 0.78, 0.80, 0.81, (0.81) = 0.80
F: 1.19, 1.06, 1.19, (1.21), (1.06) = 1.15
Y: (1.08), 1.09, 1.09, 1.10, (1.13) = 1.10
V: 0.97, 1.06, (0.90), 0.94, (1.06) = 0.99
Na: 1.59, (1.96), 1.53, (1.53), 1.75 = 1.62
Nb: 1.47, 1.61, 1.55, (1.30), (1.84) = 1.54
Ga: 1.06, (0.94), 1.00, 1.03, (1.09) = 1.03
Gb: (0.88), 0.86, 0.86, (0.81), 0.84 = 0.85
Gc: (1.13), (1.46), 1.22, 1.28, 1.18 = 1.23
Gd: 0.93, 0.90, 0.90, (0.90), (0.94) = 0.91


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