# Algorithmless Pll



## SilentlyintheShadows (Jan 21, 2009)

Is anyone interested in a tutorial for algorithmless Pll?


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## blah (Jan 21, 2009)

I already know one version of "algorithmless" LL. I've taught about 10 people this method already. The way they see it, they solve the entire cube without one single algorithm 

And yes, I'm apparently hijacking your thread  I just realized this too  Hope you don't mind.

Yes I'm interested to see what your version is like.


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## Zaxef (Jan 21, 2009)

Sure lay it on us


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## 4weeksAndImSub60 (Jan 21, 2009)

Yes... I too am interested in what your version is like... same goes to you blah


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## toast (Jan 21, 2009)

I'd like to see it.


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## MistArts (Jan 21, 2009)

Like M D' M' to "ex-sert" an edge and M D M' to "insert" it and R' D' R for "ex-serting" corners and R' D R the "insert" it?


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## nitrocan (Jan 21, 2009)

What would be your aim for doing this?


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## Lucas Garron (Jan 21, 2009)

No, I'm not interested.


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## ManuK (Jan 22, 2009)

What do you teach for orienting the corners/edges?


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## kratos94 (Jan 22, 2009)

Do you mean a LL method comprised completely of commutators? if so is there any way to do a T perm or G perms in one commutator?


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## shafiqdms1 (Jan 22, 2009)

if you mean solving the last layer without any algs, then yes!


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## nitrocan (Jan 22, 2009)

shafiqdms1 said:


> if you mean solving the last layer without any algs, then yes!



Why?


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## AvGalen (Jan 22, 2009)

MistArts said:


> Like M D' M' to "ex-sert" an edge and M D M' to "insert" it and R' D' R for "ex-serting" corners and R' D R the "insert" it?


I think this is what he means, but I don't think every PLL can be done with that method.


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## Jens (Jan 22, 2009)

Sure it can. Just use U turns to change Parity


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## riffz (Jan 22, 2009)

Lucas Garron said:


> No, I'm not interested.



Haha.


Eh, sure... but why didn't you just post it to begin with?


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## AvGalen (Jan 22, 2009)

Jens said:


> Sure it can. Just use U turns to change Parity



I think that works, but I am not sure it would be easy enough to explain to a beginner.

"Now position the U-layer so that you either have to perform a 3-cycle of corners, or 2 2-cycles"  And execution would be pretty hard as well.

But doable


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## Jens (Jan 22, 2009)

That's the way i use to explain to beginners.
Except i tell them to use M D2 M' and R' D2 R. This way they don't keep forgetting which direction they turned the last time.


> "Now position the U-layer so that you either have to perform a 3-cycle of corners, or 2 2-cycles"


I tell them to put either one or no piece in the correct place. That worked pretty well for everyone i explained it, yet.


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## JLarsen (Jan 22, 2009)

Well how you REALLY would do ll with no algs, would be with commutators. and yes, there are endless commutators for each pll. Whether or not they are remotely practical, is another story.


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## kickinwing2112 (Jan 22, 2009)

i would like to see that


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## AvGalen (Jan 22, 2009)

Jens said:


> That's the way i use to explain to beginners.
> Except i tell them to use M D2 M' and R' D2 R. This way they don't keep forgetting which direction they turned the last time.
> 
> 
> ...



I also prefer to teach those halfturn moves. I use the quarterturns on megaminx and sometimes mess them up. Half turns don't work on MegaMinx 

The "one or no piece" sounds good, but an E-Perm (with a U2 to misalign) would also be no good corners but fairly hard to execute


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## minsarker (Jan 26, 2009)

I wanna see this in depth just to know I guess

Isnt it impossible to do something without algorithms? Cuz even intuitive steps use algorithms except that we didnt use them to learn it.


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## d4m4s74 (Jan 26, 2009)

alg-less PLL is easy, but I am still looking for an alg-less OLL


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## h5n1 (Jan 26, 2009)

Just flip the cube making the last layer the first layer and it's easy. At the end you will have solved all layers.


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## *LukeMayn* (Feb 1, 2009)

h5n1 said:


> Just flip the cube making the last layer the first layer and it's easy. At the end you will have solved all layers.



LOL, but not have them done all at the same time


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Feb 1, 2009)

d4m4s74 said:


> alg-less PLL is easy, but I am still looking for an alg-less OLL



What about R'D'RD for corners, and MD'M'DMD2M' for edges?

"put an incorrectly oriented corner in URF, then do R'D'RD until the corner is correctly oriented, then put another incorrectly oriented corner in URF (with U, U2, or U') and do R'D'RD until... etc.

put an incorrectly oriented edge in UR, then do MD'M'DMD2M' to flip it, put another incorrectly oriented edge in UR, then do the inverse (MD2M'D'MDM') etc."


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## d4m4s74 (Feb 1, 2009)

thanx
I needed an edge orientation tip

corners never were a problem (started out with Dan Brown)


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Feb 1, 2009)

d4m4s74 said:


> thanx
> I needed an edge orientation tip
> 
> corners never were a problem (started out with Dan Brown)



Me too 

I learned the principle of commutators too, so I just took a random alg that flipped an edge and kept the rest of the LL intact.

P.S. change the name into freestyle PLL, because algorithms are hard to avoid


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## Odin (Feb 1, 2009)

SilentlyintheShadows, hasent posted a thing about his "algorithmless Pll", he just left us hanging.


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## badmephisto (Feb 2, 2009)

i always teach the M D2 M', R' D2 R method for pll to my friend beginners. They generally get it. I dont know of any other way... besides using commutators of course


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## Ellis (Feb 2, 2009)

Odin said:


> SilentlyintheShadows, hasent posted a thing about his "algorithmless Pll", he just left us hanging.



I was thinking about that yesterday when this thread popped up again. Kinda funny.


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## Thieflordz5 (Mar 4, 2009)

Well... "TECHNICALLY" it's still algorithms, but I guess they just don't know it...


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## Tommie (Mar 7, 2009)

Hell yeah.


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## Zeroknight (Mar 20, 2009)

Were's the guide?


FALSE ADVERTISING


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## FelixFroberg (May 13, 2009)

perhaps intressted, only to know how to do, not for speedsolving...


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