# What will the next gen of 4x4's look like?



## Dom (Oct 28, 2016)

What can we expect from 4x4's of the near future? What brand will dominate the 4x4 market? We haven't had any major innovations lately. I feel that with as awesome as 3x3's have been recently, you'd think we could get a 4x4 that can reverse corner cut better than what we've seen. 

Thoughts?


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## TheChaiCuber (Oct 28, 2016)

Let's see how the new QiYi one will stack up. Hopefully it releases soon.


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## RayTheCuber13 (Oct 28, 2016)

Dom said:


> What can we expect from 4x4's of the near future? What brand will dominate the 4x4 market? We haven't had any major innovations lately. I feel that with as awesome as 3x3's have been recently, you'd think we could get a 4x4 that can reverse corner cut better than what we've seen.
> 
> Thoughts?


I haven been thinking about this lately but that's a great idea. With so many 3x3's out on the market, theres a huge variety of cubes for many peoples personal preferences.On the other hand, new and better 4x4's have not seem to come out. Sure theres the Aosu, the Yuxin Blue, and maybe even the yj Guansu(My main). We need to see more 4x4's come out in the future so that more and more people can enjoy the event, I really like your thinking there Bud!


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## Dom (Oct 31, 2016)

TheChaiCuber said:


> Let's see how the new QiYi one will stack up. Hopefully it releases soon.



when is the QiYi 4x4 being released? I have high hopes for QiYi.

also, I heard that GuoGuan is coming out with a 4x4. does anyone know when this one will be released? maybe @4Chan knows.


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## 4Chan (Oct 31, 2016)

From what I've heard, the GuoGuan one is delayed, and QiYi will be releasing two 4x4s.
From a business standpoint, they should stagger the releases, but they work in very mysterious ways. Don't expect it anytime soon though.

The QiYi ones are supposedly very very good.


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## TheChaiCuber (Oct 31, 2016)

4Chan said:


> From what I've heard, the GuoGuan one is delayed, and QiYi will be releasing two 4x4s.
> From a business standpoint, they should stagger the releases, but they work in very mysterious ways. Don't expect it anytime soon though.
> 
> The QiYi ones are supposedly very very good.


I know the wuque is going to be 62mm, is the other one (I'm assuming the x-man design) possibly going to be 60mm? is there any chance you know?


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## 4Chan (Oct 31, 2016)

I don't know the size off the top of my head, but I wanted to say that there's a lot of room for innovation in 4x4 design.

For example, no 4x4 currently has internal edges that extend deep into the puzzle under the centers like modern 3x3 edges do.
Once 4x4s start to have than, they'll have even more corner cutting and flexibility.


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## gokkar (Oct 31, 2016)

4Chan said:


> I don't know the size off the top of my head, but I wanted to say that there's a lot of room for innovation in 4x4 design.
> 
> For example, no 4x4 currently has internal edges that extend deep into the puzzle under the centers like modern 3x3 edges do.
> Once 4x4s start to have than, they'll have even more corner cutting and flexibility.


I was literally thinking about this all day today. Tried to doodle some ideas in my notes during class but I can't draw to save my life


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## Dom (Nov 2, 2016)

The QiYi Wuque released this photo in September. They said it should be coming out soon.
They say it's 62mm. (Reference)






It doesn't look particularly groundbreaking from the outside. None of the corners are rounded. I couldn't imagine that reverse corner cutting would be that good.


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## Dom (Nov 4, 2016)

This was posted today on the QiYi Facebook
The full Wuque collection





62mm and look, the corners are rounded, unlike that prototype I posted.

Can't wait!


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## Dom (Nov 11, 2016)

This was posted on Tuesday. Here's the current Wuque in action.


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## willi pilz (Nov 15, 2016)

How the next gen 4x4 will look like?
It will eventually evolve into a 5x5.


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## Dom (Nov 16, 2016)

Yesterday, the Wuque was released. In response, Moyu released this photo on their Facebook. 
It's a prototype for the Moyu Bosu GTS 4x4. 
Has anyone heard anything about this one?


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## TheChaiCuber (Nov 16, 2016)

Dom said:


> Yesterday, the Wuque was released. In response, Moyu released this photo on their Facebook.
> It's a prototype for the Moyu Bosu GTS 4x4.
> Has anyone heard anything about this one?



They are scrambling lol, the wuque is so hyped up right now.


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## One Wheel (Nov 30, 2016)

Dom said:


> Yesterday, the Wuque was released. In response, Moyu released this photo on their Facebook.
> It's a prototype for the Moyu Bosu GTS 4x4.
> Has anyone heard anything about this one?



I predict a $26 price point, available in April 2017, and it will either be THE 4x4 for the next 3-5 years or it will be the final straw that relegates Moyu to permanent also - ran status. Just because it's fun to make bold predictions.


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## TheChaiCuber (Nov 30, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> I predict a $26 price point, available in April 2017, and it will either be THE 4x4 for the next 3-5 years or it will be the final straw that relegates Moyu to permanent also - ran status. Just because it's fun to make bold predictions.


lol, 26$ thats funny moyu.


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## One Wheel (Nov 30, 2016)

TheChaiCuber said:


> lol, 26$ thats funny moyu.



Not sure if that or 3-5 years is the least likely part.


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## TheChaiCuber (Nov 30, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Not sure if that or 3-5 years is the least likely part.


It would prolly depend on how the X-man 4x4 will be priced, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it was 26$ even though the market doesn't seem to sell that high anymore.

the 3-5 years is very unlikely IMO, simply because thats such a long time.


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## TheChaiCuber (Nov 30, 2016)

The big cube generation is flourishing, all the big name brands (moyu, qiyi, yuxin) have or are about to have cubes that are competitive within the markets.
4x4: wuque, aosu, blue.
5x5: yuxin, bochuang/weichuang, wushuang
6x6: red, weishi, wuhua
7x7: aofu, huanglong, and in prototype stage wuji

Since the wuji isnt released yet, i can't really say much about that. but all the cubes listed are competitive for best cube on market (although the red and blue require a spring swap)

I think its saying a lot when the aosu pops the most out of the cubes listed. thats a crazy good cube.


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## One Wheel (Nov 30, 2016)

TheChaiCuber said:


> It would prolly depend on how the X-man 4x4 will be priced, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it was 26$ even though the market doesn't seem to sell that high anymore.
> 
> the 3-5 years is very unlikely IMO, simply because thats such a long time.



Most are a lot cheaper than that. If you're willing to wait for shipping from China you can get a good 4x4 for $20 less than that. A good price point for a premium 4x4 in my opinion would be $16-18 right now. When I said 3-5 years I was thinking about the Dayan 2x2. I wonder what the price point would be if Gans ever made a 4x4.


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## TheChaiCuber (Nov 30, 2016)

One Wheel said:


> Most are a lot cheaper than that. If you're willing to wait for shipping from China you can get a good 4x4 for $20 less than that. A good price point for a premium 4x4 in my opinion would be $16-18 right now. When I said 3-5 years I was thinking about the Dayan 2x2. I wonder what the price point would be if Gans ever made a 4x4.


for sure, I actually live in china so all the cubes are so cheap haha. I've actually wondered if gans would ever produce one. they don't seem that interested in it atm though


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## dskids (Dec 1, 2016)

As long as the next gen of 4x4's has 60mm options I'll be happy


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## Dom (Dec 2, 2016)

On November 24th, Moyu posted the MF4S on their Facebook page. It's 62mm with nice rounded corners of the pieces. It looks cool. I especially like the green internals on the stickerless. I've been waiting for the Cubing Classroom 4x4.
@4Chan, @camcuber:
When will you be carrying this in your stores?
What are your thoughts on this? Is this an improved version of the Yusu R?


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## 4Chan (Dec 2, 2016)

Dom said:


> On November 24th, Moyu posted the MF4S on their Facebook page. It's 62mm with nice rounded corners of the pieces. It looks cool. I especially like the green internals on the stickerless. I've been waiting for the Cubing Classroom 4x4.
> @4Chan, @camcuber:
> When will you be carrying this in your stores?
> What are your thoughts on this? Is this an improved version of the Yusu R?



Unsure, probably soon!


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## Dom (Dec 30, 2016)

This Cyclone Boys 57mm 4x4 was just released. I found a bunch of good photos at the ZCUBE.vip website.
The mechanism looks just like the G4.

Maybe 60mm wasn't small enough. Will the next generation of 4x4's be the same size as the original 3x3's?

(Props to @One Wheel for bringing this up)


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## asacuber (Dec 30, 2016)

Gan could release a 4x4


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## Dom (Jan 3, 2017)

asacuber said:


> Gan could release a 4x4


Yeah, that's what @TheChaiCuber was talking about. I think Gan's first 4x4 would be super fast, have except corner cutting, but be very unstable. 

Gan, I challenge you to prove me wrong!


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## asacuber (Jan 3, 2017)

If they released one they would name it the gan462


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## Dom (Jan 3, 2017)

asacuber said:


> If they released one they would name it the gan462


hopefully, it would be more like GAN460! QiYi made the Wuque 62mm, and a lot of people think they should've made it 60mm. These companies need to realize that most of us like the smaller 4x4's. Take a look at the new Cyclone Boys 4x4. It's 57mm!


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## One Wheel (Jan 14, 2017)

Dom said:


> This Cyclone Boys 57mm 4x4 was just released. I found a bunch of good photos at the ZCUBE.vip website.
> The mechanism looks just like the G4.
> 
> Maybe 60mm wasn't small enough. Will the next generation of 4x4's be the same size as the original 3x3's?
> ...



I finally got this today, and it's legit. As far as I can tell it is a shrunken G4, with all the good and bad of that. It is stable, ridiculously fast, and slightly catchy. I'm guessing the last one, and possibly two, will decrease with more solves.

As far as size, sure, it would be great for people with small hands, but if a 57mm 3x3 is good for somebody with large hands, do your hands grow because the cube has one more layer? My hands are 9 3/8" thumb to pinkie. The 57mm and 60mm CB 4x4s feel equally good as far as size to me, but my 62mm Aosu is definitely the old clunker of the bunch.

Edit: oh yeah, the stickerless shades are fantastic.

Edit 2: the speed is slowing down. So far the catching isn't. I've gotten a few sub-1:40 singles, I think even a 1:30.xx, which is probably one of my 10 fastest solves ever, but it seems I'm averaging about 1:56 with this vs 1:49 with the G4.


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## Dom (Feb 4, 2017)

Yes, after a lot of solves, my 57mm CB Feiteng 4x4 is freaking awesome! I think this could really catch on.



One Wheel said:


> do your hands grow because the cube has one more layer?


I thought about this, but after a lot of solves, I've determined that people with wide fingers might not like this one. For me, it's great because I have shorter fingers that aren't thick, so the thin layers of this cube work out for me. Also, I think it's more comfortable to do wide layer turns so I don't have to strain to reach the other side of the cube. I really do think that if QiYi made a 57mm version of the Wuque, it would easily become many people's favorite. In my opinion. 

What do y'all think? 
(Oooohh.. that's going in the New Puzzle Hype/Wishlist Thread!)


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## One Wheel (Feb 4, 2017)

Dom said:


> I thought about this, but after a lot of solves, I've determined that people with wide fingers might not like this one. For me, it's great because I have shorter fingers that aren't thick, so the thin layers of this cube work out for me. Also, I think it's more comfortable to do wide layer turns so I don't have to strain to reach the other side of the cube.



Hmm. You make a good point. I'll have to break this cube out again and give it a try with that in mind. I have reasonably long and thick fingers. That might be part of the cause of the catching that made me go back to the G4. I can easily do slice moves on the G4, and occasionally on 5x5, but there I usually do something like Rw R' instead, and certainly not slice moves for 6x6 and 7x7.


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## Dom (Feb 21, 2017)

@4Chan brought this to my attention: 




Valk 4

Has anyone heard any details on this? I haven't seen anything on the QiYi Facebook page. And what could it possibly be like? I think that this one would probably be 60mm, since the Valk 3 was a little smaller.


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## Dom (Feb 23, 2017)

QiYuan 4x4
Another potentially awesome 4x4 from QiYi (posted on the QiYi Facebook). What could be better than the Wuque?


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## 4Chan (Feb 23, 2017)

From what I've heard, the QiYuan will be more like a "budget" 4x4. ):


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## Dom (Feb 24, 2017)

4Chan said:


> From what I've heard, the QiYuan will be more like a "budget" 4x4. ):


!!!
Now I'm even more excited! I'm a sucker for budget cubes. 

That stickerless blue shade looks like the same plastic as the Warrior W. That frosted plastic is amazing!


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## Jlvs2run (Jun 28, 2017)

4Chan said:


> From what I've heard, the QiYuan will be more like a "budget" 4x4. ):



Has anyone tried this cube yet?


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## Competition Cuber (Jun 28, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> Has anyone tried this cube yet?


Many people. I think the Guansu is better.


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## Jlvs2run (Jun 28, 2017)

Competition Cuber said:


> Many people. I think the Guansu is better.



What is your evaluation of the Qi Yuan vs Guansu?


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## Competition Cuber (Jun 28, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> What is your evaluation of the Qi Yuan vs Guansu?


I don't have either of them, that is just what a lot of people say.


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## Jlvs2run (Jun 28, 2017)

Okay, thanks.


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## Dom (Jul 2, 2017)

QiYi posted this a couple days ago:

"Smaller 4x4,can you guess what is it?"


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## KAINOS (Jul 2, 2017)

Dom said:


> QiYi posted this a couple days ago:
> 
> "Smaller 4x4,can you guess what is it?"
> View attachment 8128


I guess it's a mini WuQue, considering the fact a lot of people want a smaller version of the puzzle. It could also be a Valk4 but WuQue is relatively new AND dominating the 4x4 market, so I don't really think that QiYi is planning to release another one.


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## Competition Cuber (Jul 2, 2017)

The florian cuts look like a Wuque.


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## Dom (Jul 5, 2017)

They're calling it the "Thunderclap 4x4 and Thunderclap Mini 4x4"
It sounds very clacky. Let's hope that doesn't mean it'll be catchy, too.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=814672885381110


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## Competition Cuber (Jul 5, 2017)

Dom said:


> They're calling it the "Thunderclap 4x4 and Thunderclap Mini 4x4"
> It sounds very clacky. Let's hope that doesn't mean it'll be catchy, too.
> 
> 
> ...


Probably like a 12-15 dollar 4x4 with nice performance.


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## Dom (Nov 11, 2017)

So Moyu just skipped the Aosu GTS regular version and jumped right into the magnetized version. Good choice. But they failed to make it 60mm, despite the overwhelming consumer demand for a 60mm 4x4. 

And the mechanism looks plain - nothing new - nothing we haven't already seen - nothing that will revolutionize the 4x4 market. 

not worth my time. 

anyone else agree?


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## One Wheel (Nov 11, 2017)

Dom said:


> But they failed to make it 60mm, despite the overwhelming consumer demand for a 60mm 4x4.



I would have agreed with you a few months ago, but I'm not so sure now. I wanted a good magnetized 60mm 4x4, so I made a Yuxin Blue M, which I'm very happy with. My one complaint with the Blue is that sometimes during PLL parity the inner slice is just a bit narrow to flick. I've heard a lot of good about the WuQue, so I traded for one and just got it today. Right now it's not as good as my Blue, but it is a very good puzzle. I suspect that when I get it magnetized it will become my main 4x4. I think that the better stability of magnetic cubes changes the ideal grip slightly: you have to grip a non-magnetic 4x4 a little more precisely, which is easier to do with a 60mm, or even a 57 or 58mm cube than with a 62mm. A 62mm, on the other hand, is a little easier to, for lack of a better term, "throw around," provided it has sufficient stability. 

Back to market demand: it is my distinct impression that the best-selling 4x4 over the last several months has been the (62mm) Wuque. I agree that there is certainly a market for 60mm cubes but it seems that Yuxin has claimed that, Qiyi has claimed the 62mm market, and now Moyu is way behind in the big cube game. And since Qiyi seems to be winning, at least for 4x4, they're chasing Qiyi. 

I would love to see them release a 60mm version as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did, particularly if the 62mm is a success. I also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.


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## One Wheel (Feb 3, 2018)

One Wheel said:


> I would have agreed with you a few months ago, but I'm not so sure now. . . . I think that the better stability of magnetic cubes changes the ideal grip slightly: you have to grip a non-magnetic 4x4 a little more precisely, which is easier to do with a 60mm, or even a 57 or 58mm cube than with a 62mm. A 62mm, on the other hand, is a little easier to, for lack of a better term, "throw around," provided it has sufficient stability.



I think I'd like to recant this statement. After magnetizing my Wuque I was ready to write off the catching issues as a faulty cube or due to insufficient break-in, but it hasn't gotten better. I scrambled several nice 4x4s at the competition I organized 2 weeks ago, and there is something ckunkier about the 62mm size. Chris Olson's Wuque M in particular has a very nice feel, very similar to my Blue M, but with lighter magnets, and it's just clumsier in my hands because of the extra 2mm. The nicest 4x4 I scrambled belonged to Andrew Karbusicky. Not sure exactly what kind it was, but if I had to guess I'd say it's a Weisu M.


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