# 2-gen contest



## Lucas Garron (Jun 7, 2008)

Somehow, 2-generator isn't done enough. So, here's a contest of 12 scrambles to compare our 2-gen times (and so that I can see if my 6.xx avg is in danger ). Scramble 2-gen, solve 2-gen, record your times:

1. R2 U R2 U2 R U' R U' R' U' R' U2 R' U' R U'
2. R' U R' U2 R2 U2 R' U' R2 U R2 U2 R' U2 R U' 
3. R' U2 R' U2 R U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U2 R' U'
4. U R U R2 U' R U' R U R2 U R U' R U' R 
5. R' U' R2 U R' U2 R U R' U R2 U R U2 R2 U2 
6. R' U R U' R U2 R' U R2 U' R2 U2 R U R2 U2 
7. R' U R2 U2 R U2 R2 U2 R U' R2 U' R2 U' R U2 
8. R U' R U2 R U R2 U2 R U R U' R2 U2 R2 U' 
9. U2 R2 U2 R' U' R2 U2 R' U2 R U2 R U' R2 U2 R' 
10. R2 U' R2 U2 R' U2 R U R' U' R' U' R2 U2 R' U2 
11. R U' R' U2 R2 U2 R U R U2 R2 U R' U' R U 
12. R' U2 R2 U R' U2 R U' R' U' R' U R2 U R' U' 

(9.19), 7.48, 7.06, 6.72, 8.45, 8.18, 7.41, 9.01, 5.71, 7.77, 9.18, (5.13)
>7.70, bad 

By the way, I can't prevent side-talk, but could we keep it to discussing times , algs, etc. instead of "wut's 2gin? is it just twisting 2 sides?" (it is) and "can i allowed to twist F face in my solve?" (No, you may not. But you're welcome to create a new event for that.)?


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## Siraj A. (Jun 7, 2008)

Times: 10.42, (14.93), 14.42, 9.09, 13.83, 12.55, 8.91, (6.67), 10.73, 8.94, 10.97, 8.21

Avg: *10.81*

I was going for sub-10 here but I failed! Not knowing a 2-gen Z-perm doesn't help.


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## fanwuq (Jun 7, 2008)

Very bad, no warm up.
The 22 was a pop.
Average: 14.48 seconds
Individual Times: 17.41, (22.41), 12.72, 17.20, 19.42, 14.34, 11.12, 14.52, 17.25, (08.98), 09.89, 10.88

I hate the 2-3 look OLL and Z perm. They are the sup-14s. If I know the 2gen OLL and PLLs, I can average sub-10. The last 3 are the usual 2LLL. I remember doing this a few weeks ago and getting a few sub-7 solves and a 10-12 second average.


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## jtjogobonito (Jun 7, 2008)

Times:
(10.05), 9.55, 9.69, 8.13, 9.86, (6.11), 7.80, 7.09, 7.77, 7.94, 9.92, 6.28

Average=8.40

Alright my goal was to lose by less than a second to Lucas. Those first three solves were 2gen warm ups.


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## ExoCorsair (Jun 7, 2008)

(7.66) 14.52 12.11 10.53 13.88 12.31 9.52 (16.75) 15.34 11.88 14.89 8.20 = 12.13

My TPS is low.


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## Harris Chan (Jun 8, 2008)

6.13, 6.66, (7.91), 5.09, 5.30, 6.21, 6.16, 6.97, 6.66, 5.96, 6.93, (3.55) (PLL skipped)

=6.21 seconds.

Lol I remember trying this back when I was around 20s, and I got 7s just because of PLL skipped (averaged around 10-12 with 2 gen at the time). I was using 2 step OLL for some of the OLLs (based on Joel's beginner tutorial)


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## Jason Baum (Jun 8, 2008)

(04.42), 06.11, 06.05, 05.61, 05.67, 06.28, 06.72, 04.98, 06.47, 05.31, (07.62), 05.38 = *5.86*

Four or five of the solves had easy 2 gen ZBLL cases. Finally ZBLL pays off


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## Lofty (Jun 8, 2008)

9.97 average...
I think I can do faster OH as RU turns are much more natural there.
This makes me want to finish the 2GLL algs I generated...
Where can I get random 2gen scrambles? I can't join the chat for some reason to get them there.


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## Harris Chan (Jun 8, 2008)

Omg  ZB rocks man, but I haven't learn any new algorithms in the past half year lol (or did I? hmmmmm).


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## pjk (Jun 8, 2008)

Lofty said:


> 9.97 average...
> I think I can do faster OH as RU turns are much more natural there.
> This makes me want to finish the 2GLL algs I generated...
> Where can I get random 2gen scrambles? I can't join the chat for some reason to get them there.


Along with the Chat Room link from this forum, there is this, which connects to the same place: http://www.strangepuzzle.com/chat.php . I doubt that is the difference, but it is worth a try.

My times: 
Average: 08.56 seconds
Individual Times: (06.05), (10.45), 09.34, 06.97, 08.55, 08.81, 08.34, 08.86, 08.61, 09.03, 09.02, 08.03


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## DavidWoner (Jun 8, 2008)

Lofty said:


> 9.97 average...
> I think I can do faster OH as RU turns are much more natural there.
> This makes me want to finish the 2GLL algs I generated...
> Where can I get random 2gen scrambles? I can't join the chat for some reason to get them there.



you can always use regular scrambles and ignore the letter, only paying attention to the ', 2, or plain letter demarcation and just alternate R and U.
so D' L2 F R U2 B' would become R' U2 R U R2 U'. a little slower to scramble but i think it would work.

also lucas i'm sorry for side-talking but i think this falls under the "etc" that you mentioned. i will do these soon.


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## Ron (Jun 8, 2008)

7.22 average
best #11: 4.71
worst #3: 12.24


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jun 8, 2008)

4.31 5.36 6.38 4.36 6.11 (8.38) 7.59 6.40 (4.09) 6.47 5.65 4.96 => 5.76

Suck on that Lucas! (tons of easy scrambles)


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## Johannes91 (Jun 8, 2008)

8.23 7.34 7.66 5.77 8.09 9.66 6.22 (4.75) 5.36 (11.18) 8.30 6.27 => 7.29 avg

I think I could drop at least a second easily if I practised this a bit. I'm not used to being restricted to the two sides.



Lofty said:


> Where can I get random 2gen scrambles?


My JavaScript scrambler can generate them.


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## Stefan (Jun 13, 2008)

Average: 09.47 seconds
Individual Times: 11.05, 08.23, (14.42), 12.19, (06.58), 06.98, 08.92, 09.86, 07.03, 09.61, 13.39, 07.42

I've been wanting to run a competition like this ever since I noticed the category had disappeared from speedcubing.com. I'd like to see it back, and I think high quality scrambling and many interested people could achieve it.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 13, 2008)

Okay, just so you can all laugh at me, here I am. I've never tried it before; I did a few solves first to make sure I could do it at all. I use hardly any 2-gen algorithms, so I have very little to work with - all I have is Sune, a U perm I don't know very well and am therefore very slow with, and the rest is intuitive.

31.71 seconds:
28.16, 16.97, 41.98, 23.89, 25.80, (1:21.34), 29.26, 27.31, 1:03.50, 21.28, 38.98, (12.75)

On the worst one there, I put a pair in the wrong way into the wrong slot, and spent about 30 seconds trying to get the other pair to go in the other wrong slot until I realized what I did wrong.

Wow, I'm about the same at this as I am with regular 3x3x3. How sad. 

At least I had a good last solve. Maybe I was just starting to get better when I quit.


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## Dene (Jun 13, 2008)

Mine would be: DNF (unless I didn't have to cycle corners in a single solve). I can't 2-gen corner cycle.


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## Stefan (Jun 13, 2008)

Dene, just try it. Seriously.


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## fanwuq (Jun 13, 2008)

Dene said:


> Mine would be: DNF (unless I didn't have to cycle corners in a single solve). I can't 2-gen corner cycle.



Stefan is right. If you scramble with 2 sides, you can always solve with 2 sides. And when you only move 2 sides, the corner permutation is always correct. Just solve F2L and orient with sune and finish with U perm (unless you know more optimal algs).


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## Lofty (Jun 13, 2008)

yay I just did 12 scrambles OH on Johannes' wonderful scramble generator and got:

Average: 09.73 sec.

Fastest Time: 04.81
Slowest Time: 11.43
Standard Deviation: 01.37

Individual Times:
1) 11.23 
2) 07.23 
3) 10.61 
4) (11.43) 
5) 10.55 
6) (04.81) 
7) 09.26 
8) 10.34 
9) 10.84 
10) 09.25 
11) 10.33 
12) 07.61


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## Dene (Jun 14, 2008)

Oh.

Average: 18.59 sec.
Individual Times: (30.41), 15.81, 22.50 (+2), 17.80, 18.23, 21.75, 10.86, (09.00), 26.05, 22.14, 20.73 (+2), 10.02

The 9.00 and 10.02 were PLL skips. I'm so cold right now so everything was a bit slow. Also, I kept on getting damn anti-Sune's which I hate, and of course I realise that I am left hand dominant now so that didn't help either.


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## FU (Jun 14, 2008)

Average: 09.25 seconds
Individual Times: 08.06, 07.09, 07.27, 10.94, 08.66, 10.08, 08.17, (13.24), 10.14, 10.03, (05.89), 12.11


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## cmhardw (Jun 14, 2008)

7:27.08, DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, 1:56.00, DNF, DNF

BLD of course. Oh my god that was crap. I used to practice this a lot, and clearly I am extremely out of practice. Stupid undoing of setup turns  Man I gotta start practicing this again, that was almost insulting. At least 1:56.00 is my new pb fastest time though, that is one saving grace ;-)

--edit--
12.05, 12.08, 13.50, 13.18, 11.19, 15.01, 11.51, 13.63, 19.06, 9.22, (19.35), (6.92) = 13.04
--edit--

Chris


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## joey (Jun 14, 2008)

cmhardw said:


> BLD of course. Oh my god that was crap. I used to practice this a lot, and clearly I am extremely out of practice.
> Chris


As soon as I had seen you were the last person to post this in the thread, it reminded me of you, Stefan and me talking about this in Budapest! I _still_ havn't tried it!


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## Ron (Jun 14, 2008)

In 1981 I wrote an article about 2-gen for a book.
The book was never published.
The system I proposed was worse than I can now think of:
- solve RD (intuitively)
- solve bottom corners (intuitively)
- solve top corners (OLL algorithms)
- solve FR BR edges (algorithms in 2 steps)
- solve LL edges (PLL algorithms)
I think I averaged 12 seconds for that system.

Have fun,

Ron


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## Erik (Jun 14, 2008)

Erik
7.64, 6.16, 8.00, (5.67), 6.77, 6.59, 6.42, 5.78, 6.36, (9.52), 6.36, 6.69=>*6.68*


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## cmhardw (Jun 14, 2008)

joey said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > BLD of course. Oh my god that was crap. I used to practice this a lot, and clearly I am extremely out of practice.
> ...



Hey Joey,

Actually, when I saw this thread the first thing I thought about was you, me, and Stefan talking about 2-gen BLD in Budapest 

I just tried 2 solves this morning, both successful. I got 3:16.91 and 4:17.75., which is probably close to my average right now. I use a mix of speed-BLD style and (RUR'U')*3 to solve corners. I track what happens to orientation during the solving of corners and solve it after. Then I track the edge permutation during the corner moves and solve those. Basically the bulk of my time is memorization, the actual solving phase might take 30 seconds or less for me most solves. I feel like this must be a terrible BLD method, but I don't know many corner move algs in 2-gen that preserve orientation, otherwise I would just use orient first and then permute.

The only alg I know for corners that permutes without affecting orientation is ridiculously long: (RUR'U')*3 U R' U2 R U R' U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' U (and yes there is a move cancellation in the middle)

I'm tempted to get out ACube and find some nice algs to allow me to do orient first then permute to some extent for the corners. That would certainly speed up memo quite a bit.

And I recommend to try it! It's a whole different BLD experience, and quite fun!

Chris


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## Lotsofsloths (Jun 14, 2008)

9.46
Lots of mess-ups


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 14, 2008)

cmhardw said:


> The only alg I know for corners that permutes without affecting orientation is ridiculously long: (RUR'U')*3 U R' U2 R U R' U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' U (and yes there is a move cancellation in the middle)
> Chris


You haven't seen Joel's alg? 
(RUR'U RUR'U2)*2


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## Joël (Jun 15, 2008)

Lucas Garron said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > The only alg I know for corners that permutes without affecting orientation is ridiculously long: (RUR'U')*3 U R' U2 R U R' U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' U (and yes there is a move cancellation in the middle)
> ...



He's been missing out .


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## watermelon (Jun 15, 2008)

7.03, 4.55, (8.16), 8.00, 7.27, 5.55, 7.44, 8.02, 5.81, 5.97, 7.89, (3.99) -> *6.64*

Yay, I beat Erik by 0.04 .


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## Kenneth (Jun 16, 2008)

I didn't have the energy to do the scrambles but I made up a nice method for 2-gen solving:

1, build the two pairs but newer mind where you place them at first.
2, compleate F2L ... place RD and the two pairs
3, OLLC
4, EPLL

The method I also recomend for Petrus users, you save truns from building both pairs before the RD edge and any pair is placed.


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## Stefan (Jun 16, 2008)

cmhardw said:


> The only alg I know for corners that permutes without affecting orientation is ridiculously long: (RUR'U')*3 U R' U2 R U R' U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' U



Try this one: (RU'R'U)*3

Gosh are you stuck.


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 17, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > The only alg I know for corners that permutes without affecting orientation is ridiculously long: (RUR'U')*3 U R' U2 R U R' U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' U
> ...



Could you recommend a good way to do setups in F2B2?


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## joey (Jun 17, 2008)

Did he not mention, not messing up orientation?


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## Stefan (Jun 17, 2008)

Lucas: What? Are you sure you mean F2B2?

Joey: Yes he did. And apparently you're even more stuck than him.


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## joey (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at Stefan!


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## Brett (Jun 19, 2008)

20.98, 26.56, 18.71, 17.31, 18.92. (27.29), 20.96, 23.56, 20.39, 18.23, 20.64, (13.93)

Average - 20.92.

Wow, I'm slow. o-o


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## Stefan (Jun 19, 2008)

Now I'm disappointed. I was sure you'd figure this out. Fine, I'll explain.

You applied my alg to a solved cube, saw it didn't keep the UD stickers on the UD sides, and concluded it didn't preserve orientation. You asked about it and I replied I know and didn't take it back, instead calling you more stuck than Chris. Guys, you know I love you and don't just mock you for no good reason. That was a hint! Geez.

If you and I disagree about preservation of orientation of a certain alg, then obviously we're talking about different definitions of orientation. I'm simply talking about orientation keeping the FB stickers on the FB sides. Instead of your UD version.

This is btw part of what I meant with "obsessed with a messed up understanding of orientation" in another thread recently. I meant that mostly for newbs and intermediates, but apparently the experts have trouble thinking outside the box, too.


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## FU (Jun 19, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> Now I'm disappointed. I was sure you'd figure this out. Fine, I'll explain.
> 
> You applied my alg to a solved cube, saw it didn't keep the UD stickers on the UD sides, and concluded it didn't preserve orientation. You asked about it and I replied I know and didn't take it back, instead calling you more stuck than Chris. Guys, you know I love you and don't just mock you for no good reason. That was a hint! Geez.
> 
> ...



But how would that algo help in 2-gen BLD solving? Well it is 2-gen but neither of the 2 sides being turned are the U face if you're preserving U/D sticker orientation.


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## AvGalen (Jun 19, 2008)

For all the people that think 2-gen solving is fun, but easy, here is a nice variation/challenge:

Scramble: Just like the rest of this contest, you can only scramble with RU moves, BUT during that scrambling you have to do 1 L' move and also 1 L move (in that order).
Example: RUR2U2 *L'* R'UR2 *L* U2R2UR' 
Result: You might or might not be able to solve this with only RU moves, but you can always solve it with only RU moves, 1 L' move and 1 L move
Beginners challenge: Solve with only RUL moves
Regular challenge: Solve with only RU moves and a maximum of 1 L' and 1 L move
Additional challenge: Find a way to determine of L moves are actually necessary for solving the cube.

Now if anyone wants to try this for speed, just insert the L' move after the 5th turn and the L move after the 11th turn in the provided scrambles.

P.S. I realize this is not just "keeping it to discussing times , algs, etc."


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## ch_ts (Jun 19, 2008)

> But how would that algo help in 2-gen BLD solving? Well it is 2-gen but neither of the 2 sides being turned are the U face if you're preserving U/D sticker orientation.


1. Memorize orientations differently using front/back colors, or 
2. Do <F,R> instead.


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 20, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> P.S. I realize this is not just "keeping it to discussing times , algs, etc."


That's fine. 
I'll try to figure out what I can learn from the J-perm.



StefanPochmann said:


> I'm simply talking about orientation keeping the FB stickers on the FB sides. Instead of your UD version.


That's what I meant with F2B2, sorry for not correcting that. (Should've said R2U2?)
Anyhow, could you give an example solve with sane setups?



ch_ts said:


> 1. Memorize orientations differently using front/back colors, or
> 2. Do <F,R> instead.


We're presuming <U,R> for the easy alg.

EDIT: I have a general solution to Arnaud's challenge. CP is the only issue. Essential solution: Solve as many corners as possible, you'll need either a 2-cycle or a 3-cycle to place DFL and finish CP (CO and EP are trivial while the L is up - Sune and Allan (make sure L' doesn't hide FL).
3-cycle: L' U R2' U' R U L (hand-found, based on an obvious comm idea)
2-cycle: (U2) L' U' R' U' L (found by getting a gazillion algs in CE, then realizing I could severely chop this one down)

I'll do an average tomorrow.

(But: First AvG-2.5-gen solve: 32.60+ [with CLS ])


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## Stefan (Jun 20, 2008)

FU said:


> But how would that algo help in 2-gen BLD solving? Well it is 2-gen but neither of the 2 sides being turned are the U face if you're preserving U/D sticker orientation.


Oh gosh... pure ignorance dripping here. I so need to write my tutorial about this stuff.



Lucas Garron said:


> That's what I meant with F2B2, sorry for not correcting that. (Should've said R2U2?)


I suspected. And yes, should've been R2U2.



Lucas Garron said:


> Anyhow, could you give an example solve with sane setups?


Will do some tomorrow.


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## AvGalen (Jun 20, 2008)

Lucas Garron said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > P.S. I realize this is not just "keeping it to discussing times , algs, etc."
> ...


You have the same approach as I do Lucas. The problem is in the CP, so you solve that first and continue with regular 2-gen. (and I also used RUL-J-Perm to figure it out)But it is much more fun to try it without doing the corners first. That is why I gave the challenge to determine whether or not you would actually need the L/L' moves.

I think challenges like this is why there is such a strong correlation between mathematicians, programmers, cubers. We handle big and impossible problems by dividing them into smaller problems which are (preferrably) independent of each other.


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 20, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> You have the same approach as I do Lucas. The problem is in the CP, so you solve that first and continue with regular 2-gen. (and I also used RUL-J-Perm to figure it out)But it is much more fun to try it without doing the corners first.


Actually, I didn't end up using the J-perm. But I forgot to mention that if DFL gets replaced in the scramble, you can to use a Niklas (CP of the J-perm: L'URU'L) if you have 2 corners to swap.




AvGalen said:


> That is why I gave the challenge to determine whether or not you would actually need the L/L' moves.


Aha. So that "of" was "if." 
If you know about CP in 2-gen, and remembered that the J/Niklas uses only L' and L once, I thought that this was obvious.

I thought the regular challenge was just to solve it once (or twice), and the additional challenge was to know what you're doing. 



AvGalen said:


> I think challenges like this is why there is such a strong correlation between mathematicians, programmers, cubers. We handle big and impossible problems by dividing them into smaller problems which are (preferably) independent of each other.


Isn't that life?
Anyhow, here we're being analytic.
I used to dislike the scientific method, mostly because I didn't want to accept it as the logical way to deduce just because they teach it to us. Now, I like it, and even though it doesn't work quite as well in math, it's implicit in problem-solving like this.


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## FU (Jun 20, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> Oh gosh... pure ignorance dripping here. I so need to write my tutorial about this stuff.


Just a simple example solve will do.


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 20, 2008)

20.91, 28.12, 20.77, (20.67), (DNF), 27.28, 23.62, 48.17, 22.64, 25.34, 26.17, 24.74 > 26.78 avg

1. R2 U R' U R2 U' L' R2 U2 R U2 R2 U' L R' U' R2 U' R2 U
2. R U2 R U2 R U L' U' R' U' R' U2 R' L R' U' R' U R' U
3. U' R2 U' R2 U R L' U2 R2 U R' U2 R L R' U' R U2 R2 U'
4. R U' R2 U2 R2 U' L' U2 R' U2 R U' R' L U R' U2 R2 U2 R
5. R2 U2 R2 U R U2 L' U R' U' R' U' R' L U R U' R2 U2 R
6. R' U' R' U' R U' L' R' U R U2 R U2 L U R' U' R' U' R
7. R U R' U2 R2 U' L' R2 U R' U R' U2 L U' R U R U R
8. U' R U' R2 U' R L' R' U R2 U' R2 U' L R' U R U' R U'
9. U2 R U' R2 U2 R' L' U R U2 R' U R L U' R U R2 U' R2
10. U2 R2 U' R' U R2 L' U' R U' R2 U R L U R' U' R' U R2
11. U2 R2 U2 R' U' R L' R2 U R' U2 R2 U' L U' R' U' R2 U' R
12. U R' U R U2 R' L' U2 R2 U' R2 U' R' L R U R U R2 U

I was being really careful because my first avg had 2 DNFs and I got another DNF as I was rolling out the first of the 2. 

And I'm still not happy with the randomness of those scrambles.


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## Stefan (Jun 20, 2008)

Your first few scrambles and ways to solve the corners with FB orientation. Not necessarily optimal, and with more algs one can of course do more. Here I only considered using these:

double swap: (R U' R' U)*3
double swap: (R' U R U')*3
"X-perm": R2 U2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R U2 R2 U2
"U-turn": U R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R'
"U'-turn": R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R' U'

Scramble 1:
*[scramble]* R2 U R2 U2 R U' R U' R' U' R' U2 R' U' R U'
*[orient corners]* R2 (R' U' R U' R' U R U' R2 U' R' U' R' U R U R U' R) R2
*[solve BDR]* (R' U R U')*3
*[solve FRD]* U2 (R U' R' U)*3 U2
*[solve rest]* R2 U2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R U2 R2 U2

Scramble 2:
*[scramble]* R' U R' U2 R2 U2 R' U' R2 U R2 U2 R' U2 R U'
*[orient corners]* R2 U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R
*[solve FDR]* R2 (R U' R' U)*3 R2
*[solve BRD]* (R' U R U')*3
*[solve rest]* R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R' U'

Scramble 3:
*[scramble]* R' U2 R' U2 R U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U2 R' U'
*[orient corners]* R (R' U R' U' R' U' R U R U R2 U R' U' R U R' U R) R'
... Darn this must be like the worst case. I give up for now.

ACube found an alright algorithm which 3-cycles the front corners as well as the back corners, exactly what I would've needed in the first solve. So that would be:

Scramble 1:
*[scramble]* R2 U R2 U2 R U' R U' R' U' R' U2 R' U' R U'
*[orient corners]* R2 (R' U' R U' R' U R U' R2 U' R' U' R' U R U R U' R) R2
*[solve all corners*(R' U2 R2 U2 R2 U) (R U')*3 (R U)*3

There are only 120 possible corner permutations. I certainly wouldn't want to learn 120 algorithms for one-step CP without setup moves, but I estimate 15 algs to be enough for a two-step CP without setup moves, and that would be reasonable to learn.


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 20, 2008)

While we're at devising a complete system:

I think UL/UF make nice buffers for edges:
U-turn: R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R' U (trigger last move with ring/pinky)
U'-turn: U' R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R'

(How about "Pseudo U-turn"? PsU ("syoo") and PsU' ("syoo prime"))

I suggest EF, so that the cycle can always start at UF. Otherwise, a PsU / PsU' involves + (see below).

Buffer: UF/UL
Memo: Normal, like Old Pochmann or M2, starting from UF (main buffer).

Let's call the U-perms C (clockwise: R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R') and W (ccw inverse).
Just to represent how blind this can go, initialize M=W, and let + mean (switch the value of M between C and W)

Execution:
R-slice edges: Set up to UR with ARF p), M +, undo setup.
UB: U' M + U
UL: +


EDIT: I just realized that those PsU turns don't work. So it's either something like UR'U2RUR'U'RUR'URU2 (and inverse), or Stefan's alg with an extra edge to shoot in case of parity.

And yes, I know this is slow/inefficient. You can easily resolve 3-cycles with easy setups. But it's so simple.


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## Stefan (Jun 20, 2008)

You're switching to the LR version of the corner orientation scheme?


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## Stefan (Jun 20, 2008)

There are only five targets, no need for setup moves. Here are two nice algs:

U' R' U' R U R U R U' R'
R' U' R' U' R U R U R U'


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 21, 2008)

StefanPochmann said:


> There are only five targets, no need for setup moves. Here are two nice algs:
> 
> U' R' U' R U R U R U' R'
> R' U' R' U' R U R U R U'


I know. I actually setup to DR more often (not UR), and I can easily do 3OP-style. But I wanted to get down a full 2-cycle method.

And sorry about those algs, I edited in a note, but submitted the edit way too late because the tab got forgotten...


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## whauk (Sep 28, 2008)

12: 00:10.45 x 
11: 00:12.42 x 
10: 00:14.35 x 
9: 00:07.06 x 
8: 00:13.45 x 
7: 00:15.48 x 
6: 00:12.71 x 
5: 00:11.00 x 
4: 00:11.50 x 
3: 00:19.81 x 
2: 00:13.95 x 
1: 00:11.32 x 
avg:12.67

not that good


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## StachuK1992 (Sep 28, 2008)

1. 14.05
2. 21.21
3. 18.96
4. 18,68
5. 12.69
6. 20.94
7. 16.30
8. 11.52
9. 18.36
10. 14.68
11. 14.34
12. 6.93


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## blah (Sep 28, 2008)

(25.02), 20.63, 17.84, 21.59, 17.75, 22.40, 19.05, 19.66, 16.42, (8.56), 18.64, 17.99

I know my OH sucks, so this is good practice I guess?

PLL skip on 8.56 (and I beat a couple of guys who used 2 hands! ), others non-lucky.

Edit: My 2H results: 7.45, 10.62, 8.14, 8.79, 12.30, 12.06, 8.60, 11.15, (12.31), 7.04, 12.14, (6.02). 3 PLL skips this time for some strange reason


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## Hadley4000 (Sep 28, 2008)

Average: 15.51 seconds
Individual Times: 18.85, 11.43, 16.21, (09.61), 20.80, 12.48, 16.04, (24.19), 20.34, 10.96, 11.90, 16.12



Terrible. All 3 of the 20s were Z perm. I don't know 2gen Z perm.


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## Sa967St (Sep 28, 2008)

2H average : 7.44 
8.55, (5.32), 8.25, 7.15, (8.92), 7.45, 7.12, 7.11, 8.64, 7.10, 7.21, 5.81

I've been messing around with a siamese 3x3x3 all day so I guess that helped me get used to 2-gen


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## CAT13 (Sep 28, 2008)

Average: 16.04 seconds
Individual Times: 12.16, 19.83, (21.58), 17.50, 18.55, 11.55, 13.53, 17.17, 13.72, 19.14, 17.30, (10.20)

Not very good. I was thinking more like a 13s average, but a couple of the OLLs and the z perm threw me off :/


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## Hadley4000 (Sep 29, 2008)

CAT13 said:


> Average: 16.04 seconds
> Individual Times: 12.16, 19.83, (21.58), 17.50, 18.55, 11.55, 13.53, 17.17, 13.72, 19.14, 17.30, (10.20)
> 
> Not very good. I was thinking more like a 13s average, but a couple of the OLLs and the z perm threw me off :/



A couple of the OLLs? There are 7. All for edges oriented.


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## Meep (Sep 29, 2008)

My 2gen H-perm's horrible. =(

8.32, 8.98, 9.47, (6.99), 7.76, 8.90, 9.51, (9.61), 9.38, 7.83, 8.13, 8.53

> 8.62


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## EmersonHerrmann (Sep 29, 2008)

9.96, 6.78, 10.75, 6.83, 9.00, 9.97, 9.16, 10.75, 10.56, 9.58, 12.96, 8.90

Average: 9.60

FAIL


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## CAT13 (Sep 29, 2008)

Hadley4000 said:


> CAT13 said:
> 
> 
> > Average: 16.04 seconds
> ...



Huh? Actually, three of the OLL's threw me off. The other four were easy. The ones with two corners oriented were the hard ones. I don't know the 2 gen for those.


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## blah (Sep 29, 2008)

CAT13 said:


> Huh? Actually, three of the OLL's threw me off. The other four were easy. The ones with two corners oriented were the hard ones. I don't know the 2 gen for those.



What I use:

Sune-U-Antisune
Sune-U'-Antisune
Sune-U2-Antisune

Any Sune and Antisune combination would do, just make sure they're consistent. Anyone have optimal algs though? Or are these already optimal?


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## Jai (Sep 29, 2008)

watermelon said:


> 7.03, 4.55, (8.16), 8.00, 7.27, 5.55, 7.44, 8.02, 5.81, 5.97, 7.89, (3.99) -> *6.64*
> 
> Yay, I beat Erik by 0.04 .



Argh, you beat me by 0.01!
Average: 06.65 sec.

Fastest Time: 04.52
Slowest Time: 08.01
Standard Deviation: 00.69

Individual Times: 06.32, 07.36, (04.52), 06.29, (08.01), 05.96, 06.95, 07.77, 06.54, 06.54, 07.27, 05.50


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## Lofty (Sep 29, 2008)

i tried this again OH and now sub-8.5 was pretty easy


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## not_kevin (Sep 30, 2008)

so fail...
10.20 8.34 7.97 8.96 8.90 10.38 (19.00) 16.67 (6.25) 7.74 12.13 6.27 = 9.88

I hate H-perm...


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## hawkmp4 (Oct 21, 2008)

1.	15.64	
2.	14.28	
3.	16.02	
4.	9.41	
5.	(8.97)	
6.	15.66	
7.	12.48	
8.	13.25	
9.	11.11
10.	15.39	
11.	(16.95)	
12.	12.53

Average - 13.58

Surprised, actually. Could be two seconds faster (at least) if I knew 2-gen H and Z.


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## rcnrcn927 (Jun 7, 2009)

Siraj A. said:


> Times: 10.42, (14.93), 14.42, 9.09, 13.83, 12.55, 8.91, (6.67), 10.73, 8.94, 10.97, 8.21
> 
> Avg: *10.81*
> 
> I was going for sub-10 here but I failed! Not knowing a 2-gen Z-perm doesn't help.



I've never heard of a Z perm that wasn't two-gen


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## byu (Jun 7, 2009)

rcnrcn927 said:


> Siraj A. said:
> 
> 
> > Times: 10.42, (14.93), 14.42, 9.09, 13.83, 12.55, 8.91, (6.67), 10.73, 8.94, 10.97, 8.21
> ...



R' U L' U2 D2 R U' L R' U L' U2 D2 R U' L


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## IamWEB (Jun 7, 2009)

Random  

He could've also meant that he used the popular M-U alg. Yes, it's 2-gen, but it's not R-U. But that me assuming that the contest was just R-U.


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## a small kitten (Jun 7, 2009)

9.14 7.05 7.40 8.00 9.42 (5.73) 9.50 10.36 (10.38) 5.76 9.61 7.77

10 of 12 is 8.40. I use ZZ so this kind of 2 gen is something I practice almost every day. Need to be better at this.

Rocked the Takafumi's H Perm


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