# Tampere Open 2008



## Ville Seppänen (Oct 12, 2008)

Date: 25th October
Location: Tampere, Finland
Registration and information: http://speedcubing.dy.fi/tampere-open/2008/english/

We have 10 competitors, we need more (less than 12 means unofficial)!
It really doesn't help that there's 3 other competitions on the same day.


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## joey (Oct 14, 2008)

Guys. seriously, call ALL finnish people (finnish people, not finnish cubers)
Get people to go to this competition.


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## CharlieCooper (Oct 14, 2008)

ouch.i would love to go!


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## AvGalen (Oct 14, 2008)

25th October seems to be a big problem for Finnish and Hungarian Open. With other competitions on that day in Germany and Poland it is hard to get enough people to come to the competition.

I am also doubtfull that the Swiss tournament will get enough participants. UK Open is also on the same day.

Did the organisers know about the other tournaments when they decided on their dates?


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## Ville Seppänen (Oct 14, 2008)

We have 10 competitors now, Johannes should be 11th, he said he will probably come. So one more.

Everyone from Hungary should come here.


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## Erik (Oct 14, 2008)

i think they would be more likely to go to Germany or Poland then, Finland is quite far...
It's indeed a very bad date of planning tournaments. Would the WCA not better monitor these things? I mean it's nice to have so many competitions but what's the use when there are not enough cubers to attend to them?
I'd rather have a big competition where everyone comes then 3 competitions where only about 15 people would show up because of other competitions in Europe...


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## Bryan (Oct 14, 2008)

I think the 12 person rule should be removed. As long as the competition is made in good faith, it should be considered legal. Now, there's a lower turnout, then perhaps the WCA should determine the cause, and if it's possible to mitigate them for the next competition.

For example, in Austrailia, people want a competition, but are unsure of the turnout. If this rule didn't exist, they could just hold it and those people who are weary to commit because they aren't sure if it'll be official could just come and know that they'll have official results.

I won't hold a competition in the winter because if there 
was a snowstorm, I might not hit my 12 people. I don't hold a competition in lower population areas because I'm not sure of the turnout.

Now, if I held a competition and it had a low turnout, I would expect the WCA to not approve another competition in that location for up to a year. This prevents the argument of people saying, "Well, what's to prevent people from 

having a weekly competition?" They're all WCA-approved.

This rule goes against the "More competitions" philosophy.


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## AvGalen (Oct 14, 2008)

I don't think the 12 person rule should be removed. Getting 12 people to show up for a competition that takes weeks to organise should absolutely be the minimum, otherwise there is really no reason to origanise an official WCA competition. If you don't think you can get 12 people to show up, just organise an unofficiel cubemeeting and have all the fun you can have.

If there would be no limits, I could just organise the Capelle midnight 2008 competition and be the only competitor (well, if I would organise that this weekend I might even end up with 12 pretty good speedcubers anyway)


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## CharlieCooper (Oct 14, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> I don't think the 12 person rule should be removed. Getting 12 people to show up for a competition that takes weeks to organise should absolutely be the minimum, otherwise there is really no reason to origanise an official WCA competition. If you don't think you can get 12 people to show up, just organise an unofficiel cubemeeting and have all the fun you can have.
> 
> If there would be no limits, I could just organise the Capelle midnight 2008 competition and be the only competitor (well, if I would organise that this weekend I might even end up with 12 pretty good speedcubers anyway)



ohhhhh yes you would  the capelle aan den ijssel midnight open.


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## Erik (Oct 14, 2008)

I'd rather see the minimum amount go up than down to be honest...
Less would only give more troubles...


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## Bryan (Oct 14, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> I don't think the 12 person rule should be removed. Getting 12 people to show up for a competition that takes weeks to organise should absolutely be the minimum, otherwise there is really no reason to origanise an official WCA competition. If you don't think you can get 12 people to show up, just organise an unofficiel cubemeeting and have all the fun you can have.
> 
> If there would be no limits, I could just organise the Capelle midnight 2008 competition and be the only competitor (well, if I would organise that this weekend I might even end up with 12 pretty good speedcubers anyway)



You go to the WCA, tell them you want to have a competition at midnight, and they'll reject it.

If you're making an honest attempt at a competition, and turnout is low because of something beyond your control, the results should still be official.


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## Erik (Oct 14, 2008)

I think that's a bit doubtfull. The WCA might have other standards of what a competition is than you. If you plan on getting 20 cubers and only 6 show up who are coincidentaly good friends, it will just be a meeting with official results instead of a real competition in my opinion. 
Furthermore:
a well organised competition will never have too few cubers to compete anyway in my opinion. A smart organiser checks about how many cubers will come and from where (ish). If I only had 18 registrations I would be in doubt if it will work out anyway. 
The only reason I can imagine of getting too few cubers is when after you announced the competition on date X, somewhere else close there is another competition planned on date X which is far more attractive to go to (ex: prize money). Bad luck for your competition then I guess.

If you however would increase the number of minimum competitors there would be less competitions and the competition itself would be bigger and attract more (top) cubers, so people would be more likely to all go there. After all: a lot of cubers only attract more cubers...


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## Zava (Oct 14, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> 25th October seems to be a big problem for Finnish and Hungarian Open. With other competitions on that day in Germany and Poland it is hard to get enough people to come to the competition.



Hungarian Open has ~100 competitors 
so everyone from Finland, come here!


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## Stini (Oct 14, 2008)

Ville Seppänen said:


> Date: 25th October
> Location: Tampere, Finland
> Registration and information: http://speedcubing.dy.fi/tampere-open/2008/english/
> 
> ...



In previous Finnish competitions it has been common that competitors register during the last week, so I'd say that we have nothing to worry about. It's nice that you advertise though .


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## Bryan (Oct 14, 2008)

Erik said:


> If you plan on getting 20 cubers and only 6 show up who are coincidentaly good friends, it will just be a meeting with official results instead of a real competition in my opinion.


If you have a competition on a Wednesday night, don't advertise, had it announced only one month ahead, and you get only a few people, I would guess the board would reject it. 

However, if you have a competition in a new area, advertised it months in advance, and 10 people showed up, 7 of them new cubers, and there was many no-shows because of a snowstorm, should the results be official?



Erik said:


> a well organised competition will never have too few cubers to compete anyway in my opinion. A smart organiser checks about how many cubers will come and from where (ish).



It doesn't matter how much you check. Some people will say they'll go to a competition, but then for whatever reasons, don't show.



Erik said:


> The only reason I can imagine of getting too few cubers is when after you announced the competition on date X, somewhere else close there is another competition planned on date X which is far more attractive to go to (ex: prize money). Bad luck for your competition then I guess.



I don't think attractiveness would have anything to do with it. If it saves the competitor travel time, they might just go to the close one. "Bad luck"? I thought having well-organized was suppose to be enough?



Erik said:


> If you however would increase the number of minimum competitors there would be less competitions and the competition itself would be bigger and attract more (top) cubers, so people would be more likely to all go there. After all: a lot of cubers only attract more cubers...



So less competitions is better? Also, smaller competitions are nice for people who aren't super-elite. At many larger competitions, you have to restrict the number of competitors, many people may not make it beyond qualifying, and therefore may not go.


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## AvGalen (Oct 14, 2008)

Zava said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > 25th October seems to be a big problem for Finnish and Hungarian Open. With other competitions on that day in Germany and Poland it is hard to get enough people to come to the competition.
> ...



You are right about Hungarion Open having more than enough competitors. I thought I saw a post about "we need more people to come to the Hungarian Open", but I think I was mistaken. 

I tried checking the Polish Open website, but
a) It was in Polish
b) It give many errors, including 404's


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## Zava (Oct 14, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> Zava said:
> 
> 
> > AvGalen said:
> ...



I guess it was something like "we need more people to come to the Hungarian Open from abroad", because we have around 3 foreign cubers (and some hungarians from countries next to Hungary)
it doesn't really matter, now we'll have a "hungarian nationals"-like thing


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## AvGalen (Oct 14, 2008)

Zava said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > Zava said:
> ...


yep, that was the post I meant. I assumed you needed more people from abroad to come to the Hungarian Open because you had problems getting 12 people from Hungary. I realise now that 12 Hungarians are easily found


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