# LL-Skip in competition



## Worms (Sep 8, 2007)

hi!!!

I have a question 
Anybody had got a last layer skip in a oficial competition???


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## gillesvdp (Sep 8, 2007)

YES !

Check my 4th time in the 5x5 final at the European Championship 2006 ^^


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## badmephisto (Sep 9, 2007)

its funny that PLL skip is technically supposed to happen a little more than 1/22 times, but it seems way lower than that most of the time. I get it so rarely. And entire LL skip happened to me only once.


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## Worms (Sep 9, 2007)

After 2 years cubing, i have 2 LL-SKIP this summer 

My little cousin got one in his first competition, here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd7rySV9EwQ


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## Johannes91 (Sep 9, 2007)

badmephisto said:


> its funny that PLL skip is technically supposed to happen a little more than 1/22 times, but it seems way lower than that most of the time.


It's 1/72.


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## CorwinShiu (Sep 9, 2007)

Johannes91 said:


> It's 1/72.



What's the probability for both?


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## Johannes91 (Sep 9, 2007)

CorwinShiu said:


> What's the probability for both?


You mean OLL and PLL?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=PLL+OLL+skip+chance

1/72 * 1/216 = 1/15552


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## Jack (Sep 9, 2007)

That means that Worms should have had to solve about 31104 cubes this summer!


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## badmephisto (Sep 9, 2007)

Johannes91 said:


> It's 1/72.


1/72 ? Where is that from... Hmmm... Do you count it a PLL skip if all you need to do is a U or U' to finish the cube? 1/72 sounds like the chance of you getting exact PLL skip without even needing to adjust top layer


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## Johannes91 (Sep 9, 2007)

There are 4!*4! / 2 = 288 even permutations. Four of those are considered a PLL-skip (solved, U, U2 and U').

4/288 = 1/72


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## Worms (Sep 9, 2007)

Jack said:


> That means that Worms should have had to solve about 31104 cubes this summer!



Only???


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## hdskull (Sep 10, 2007)

Worms said:


> After 2 years cubing, i have 2 LL-SKIP this summer
> 
> My little cousin got one in his first competition, here is the video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd7rySV9EwQ



wow ur family is blessed with the LL skip lucky charm, haha, i've had it once in 6months of cubing.


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## TimMc (Sep 10, 2007)

I do CFOP. My LL is: OE OC PC PE

Having said that, in the past week I've had two cases where I've only had to do OE of the LL step to solve it. Would you regard this as a LL skip? 

Both times I was on public transport and not timing the solve :-/


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## AvGalen (Sep 10, 2007)

No, not in a competition and not at home either. I don't think I have solved 15552 cubes yet though. My luckiest ever was a 1 look last layer (skipped 3 steps) and that was a 16 second solve.


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## Jason Baum (Sep 11, 2007)

I've never had a LL skip in competition, but I have had 8 LL skips at home, and on two of them they were "pure" skips (I didn't have to AUF to finish the solve). 6 of those LL skips, including the two pure skips, were done with ZBF2L. The odds for a LL skip with ZBF2L are better, but not by much. I think it's 1 in 13xxx.


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## Todd (Sep 11, 2007)

The chances of a PLL or OLL skip seem pretty good yet it never happens for me?? A few weeks ago i had 2 PLL skips in a row and havent had it happen since then.


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## hdskull (Sep 11, 2007)

Todd said:


> The chances of a PLL or OLL skip seem pretty good yet it never happens for me?? A few weeks ago i had 2 PLL skips in a row and havent had it happen since then.



ever after since first reading this thread, i've had about 10 PLL skips, like 2 every 2 days or something, with limited amount of playing also(playing with other people's cubes at school, since someone else has mine). but i rarely get skips at home by myself :confused: weird...



TimMc said:


> I do CFOP. My LL is: OE OC PC PE
> 
> Having said that, in the past week I've had two cases where I've only had to do OE of the LL step to solve it. Would you regard this as a LL skip?
> 
> Both times I was on public transport and not timing the solve :-/



i think it's a PLL skip.


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## Sin-H (Sep 11, 2007)

I actually just had 1 or 2 LL skips in half a year of Cubing. (I'm not shure about the second, I was just doing it while watching TV, so I don't remember the solve well).

But I get about 1-5 PLL or OLL skips a day


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## Johannes91 (Sep 11, 2007)

Jason Baum said:


> The odds for a LL skip with ZBF2L are better, but not by much. I think it's 1 in 13xxx.


4! * 4! * 3^3 / 2 = 7776

4/7776 = *1/1944*


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## Jason Baum (Sep 11, 2007)

Johannes91 said:


> 4! * 4! * 3^3 / 2 = 7776
> 
> 4/7776 = *1/1944*


Wow, I didn't realize that it was that much better. I'm pretty sure I read it was 1 in 13xxx somewhere on the Yahoo group, but that never made sense to me and I had always wondered what the actual number was. Thanks for calculating that!


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## Lt-UnReaL (Sep 11, 2007)

Todd said:


> The chances of a PLL or OLL skip seem pretty good yet it never happens for me?? A few weeks ago i had 2 PLL skips in a row and havent had it happen since then.



Same thing happens to me.


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## Lofty (Sep 11, 2007)

I had a single OLL skip today but I don't even know if it counts because i used one of the like 5 zbf2l algs I know.. so I don't know the probability of the corners coming up oriented when you purposefully orient the edges other than that I may have had 1 pll skip in the past week or two...


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## Karthik (Sep 12, 2007)

Johannes91 said:


> 4! * 4! * 3^3 / 2 = 7776
> 
> 4/7776 = *1/1944*



Hmm...Also the probability of a OLL skip after a ZBF2L is 1/27.


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## Johannes91 (Sep 12, 2007)

Explanation: first 4! comes from EP, second 4! comes from CP, 3^3 comes from CO and it's divided by 2 because odd permutations are not possible.

If you multiply it by 8 (or 2^3), you get the probability for complete LL-skip (also works for OLL-skip, 27*8 = 216).


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## Lofty (Sep 13, 2007)

haha wow I have had over 6 PLL skips in the past two days! Not timed solves tho...


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## GlowingSausage (Dec 25, 2011)

a week ago i had 4 pll and 2 oll skips in about 50. the 1 pll skip was my new rekord (13.97) and i got 25.xx nearly every solve with a skip that day. with sucks because i'm averaging about sub 21 to 20 :l
So what's the chance of getting 2 oll and 4 pll skips in 50 solves ?


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## Goosly (Dec 25, 2011)

GlowingSausage said:


> So what's the chance of getting 2 oll and 4 pll skips in 50 solves ?


 
(1/216)^2 * (215/216)^48 * 50!/(2! * 48!) * (1/72)^4 * (71/72)^46 * 48!/(4! * 44!)
Correct me if wrong.

EDIT: I didn't take in account that the OLL and PLL skips happened in different solves (so no LL skips). Fixed now.


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## Benyó (Dec 25, 2011)

Worms said:


> Anybody had got a last layer skip in a oficial competition???



Milán Baticz austrian open 4x4 - 42.xy
István Kocza wc2011 3x3 - 14.xy
Gunnar Krig fungslangspark (or something similar) open 2009 7x7 - 7:xy
Tuan Nghia Duong french open 2010 3x3 - 9.31
and these are only the comps i've been to


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## RyanReese09 (Dec 25, 2011)

Dan Cohen has.

My 20 official OH single has LL skip. I couldn't turn fast for it.

ZZ^


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## masterofthebass (Dec 25, 2011)

Benyó said:


> Milán Baticz austrian open 4x4 - 42.xy
> István Kocza wc2011 3x3 - 14.xy
> Gunnar Krig fungslangspark (or something similar) open 2009 7x7 - 7:xy
> Tuan Nghia Duong french open 2010 3x3 - 9.31
> and these are only the comps i've been to



I had 10.12 LL skip in 08.


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## Anthony (Dec 25, 2011)

masterofthebass said:


> I had 10.12 LL skip in 08.


9.69 LL skip in 09.


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## insane569 (Dec 25, 2011)

Just got a PB in OH with a complete last layer skip. 

D L2 U' F2 U R2 U' F2 D2 R2 L2 F R F L U2 B D2 B2 R' L U2 20.51 OH single
Y' inspection
L2 U' R' F Y' F' L F D2 cross
Y' U' R U R' U2 Z U' R' U Z' f2l 1
R U2 R' U' R U R' U R U' R' f2l 2
d2 U R U' R' Y' EO
U' R' U R U R' U2 R U R U' R' U' f2l 3/4
LL SKIP
Chances of this happening?
EDIT: Sorry i didnt look throught the thread. 1/72 * 1/216 = 1/15552


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## RNewms27 (Dec 25, 2011)

insane569 said:


> Just got a PB in OH with a complete last layer skip.
> 
> D L2 U' F2 U R2 U' F2 D2 R2 L2 F R F L U2 B D2 B2 R' L U2 20.51 OH single
> Y' inspection
> ...


 


Johannes91 said:


> 1/72 * 1/216 = 1/15552


 
Read the thread sir.


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## Jakube (Dec 25, 2011)

Lasse Korbanka did an official 8.43 with LL skip at German Nationals 2011.
Avg5 was 15.32, lol.


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## Sa967St (Dec 25, 2011)

I remember there was someone who averaged ~20 and got a sub10 LL skip single in his first competition. I can't find the video (he posted it here somewhere), and I only remember that the competition was somewhere in Europe last year.


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## Lid (Dec 25, 2011)

8.63 by Mattias Claesson @ Swedish Cubedays 2011, more here.


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## Viktor Kalmar (Dec 25, 2011)

Lasse Korbanka 
ll-skip 8.xx


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## Jakube (Dec 25, 2011)

Viktor Kalmar said:


> Lasse Korbanka
> ll-skip 8.xx


 
Schau mal 3 Posts weiter oben.


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## JyH (Dec 25, 2011)

Sa967St said:


> I remember there was someone who averaged ~20 and got a sub10 LL skip single in his first competition. I can't find the video (he posted it here somewhere), and I only remember that the competition was somewhere in Europe last year.


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## Sa967St (Dec 25, 2011)

JyH said:


> Sa967St said:
> 
> 
> > I remember there was someone who averaged ~20 and got a sub10 LL skip single in his first competition. I can't find the video (he posted it here somewhere), and I only remember that the competition was somewhere in Europe last year.
> ...


Yep, that's the one I was thinking of.
Thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...ia-Duong-solved-3x3-in-9.31s(French-open-2010)


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## cityzach (Dec 25, 2011)

i have yet to get an LL skip in 2 years of speedcubing.


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## tozies24 (Dec 25, 2011)

I had two pll skips in one round..


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## ben1996123 (Dec 26, 2011)

GlowingSausage said:


> a week ago i had 4 pll and 2 oll skips in about 50. the 1 pll skip was my new rekord (13.97) and i got 25.xx nearly every solve with a skip that day. with sucks because i'm averaging about sub 21 to 20 :l
> So what's the chance of getting 2 oll and 4 pll skips in 50 solves ?



Has no one realized that this is a 4 year bump..?

On topic: I've never had a PLL/OLL/LL skip in competition on anything other than 2x2 D:


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## ~Adam~ (Dec 26, 2011)

I had a PLL skip on 4x4 leaving me parity. The explosion which followed made up for the luck.


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## Tim Major (Dec 26, 2011)

RyanReese09 said:


> Dan Cohen has.
> 
> My 20 official OH single has LL skip. I couldn't turn fast for it.
> 
> ZZ^


 
Must've been a lucky judge.


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## JackJ (Dec 26, 2011)

Had maybe 4, last one being about 1 year old. 

Oh, one on sim not too long ago, bad F2L. Sim F2L is usually 7-9ish.


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## collinbxyz (Dec 26, 2011)

My first video ever posted on youtube :'(



Spoiler











About 13 months ago. Currently my only on  
I seem so slow compared to now.

EDIT: Such a freaking high pitched voice and dumb editing  memories


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## Andri Maulana (Dec 26, 2011)

In my first competition i only got one OLL skip....
In 2x2.. 

Since my first time of cubing, i only have one LL skip in 3x3 and it was handscramble...


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## TMOY (Dec 26, 2011)

Sa967St said:


> Yep, that's the one I was thinking of.
> Thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...ia-Duong-solved-3x3-in-9.31s(French-open-2010)


Yep that's Nghia's solve, which had already been mentioned by Bence in this thread. Nut his average was more ~16 than ~20.


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## Sebastien (Dec 26, 2011)

Could everyone who is talking about OLL/PLL-Skips or LL-Skips NOT in competition please stop posting?

I had one real LL-Skip on 5x5x5 at Altbier 2011 (time was 1:59.xy, so really bad! ) and I also had 2 or 3 Wintervariation + PLL-Skips, so "forced LL-Skips". Also none of these gave me a good time.


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## Pro94 (Dec 26, 2011)

Andrea Santambrogio got 2 PLL skip in a row (can't remember what was the open). 
Also Marco Rota got 2 PLL skip in the same avg. at Castelbelforte Cube Battle 2011; probably in a row, but i'm not sure.


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## Cubenovice (Dec 26, 2011)

Both FMC WR's had LL skip


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## Johan444 (Dec 26, 2011)

Pro94 said:


> Andrea Santambrogio got 2 PLL skip in a row (can't remember what was the open).
> Also Marco Rota got 2 PLL skip in the same avg. at Castelbelforte Cube Battle 2011; probably in a row, but i'm not sure.


 
I got 2 PLL-skips in the same avg in a competition.


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## cubernya (Dec 26, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Both FMC WR's had LL skip


 
I think this is about speedsolving, but either way, do you have any way to prove this?


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## cubernya (Dec 26, 2011)

I wasn't questioning him, I was just asking him where he got that information from. I never heard it had a LL skip, only the PLL skip (like aaronb said)


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## Tao Yu (Dec 26, 2011)

theZcuber said:


> I think this is about speedsolving, but either way, do you have any way to prove this?



Jimmy Coll's 22 moves: 
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?11618-WR-Fewest-Moves

Don't know about Istvan's


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## Pro94 (Dec 26, 2011)

Istvan's

scramble: D' R2 D L2 F2 D L R2 B' D2 U2 L2 D F' L2 U L2 F U 

Xcross on green: F D' F L' B R2
2nd f2l: R BR' B2 D B D' (12 move with R2 R cancel)
U2 B L U' L F' L' F U' L' (22 moves total)


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## cubernya (Dec 26, 2011)

Pro, that can't be true. I heard from multiple places that neither FM WRs had cancellations


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## Pro94 (Dec 26, 2011)

Found here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?21037-Czech-Open-2010&p=419835&viewfull=1#post419835


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## Tao Yu (Dec 26, 2011)

theZcuber said:


> Pro, that can't be true. I heard from multiple places that neither FM WRs had cancellations



I recall Cubenovice saying that the FMC WRs had no *insertions* once, I can't be bothered to look for the post


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## Cubenovice (Dec 26, 2011)

Tao Yu said:


> I recall Cubenovice saying that the FMC WRs had no *insertions* once, I can't be bothered to look for the post


 
Yep, I mentioned that once.


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## cubernya (Dec 26, 2011)

Tao Yu said:


> I recall Cubenovice saying that the FMC WRs had no *insertions* once, I can't be bothered to look for the post


 
Insertions, cancellations, same thing... Thanks for showing the solutions to the FMC WRs, interesting to see how they solve it (especially since I'm doing another FMC today)


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## cubeflip (Dec 26, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that Piotr Alexandrowicz's 11.19 3x3 OH WR was a last-layer skip.


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## Sa967St (Dec 26, 2011)

cubeflip said:


> I'm pretty sure that Piotr Alexandrowicz's 11.19 3x3 OH WR was a last-layer skip.


Looks like a forced OLL skip with a lucky PLL skip. http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...0-Live-Results&p=442548&viewfull=1#post442548

Justin Adsuara's 12.31 OH was an LL skip as well.


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## plechoss (Dec 26, 2011)

50.00 4x4 AUFless LL skip at Polish Nationals last year :]


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