# Rubik's Legal action?



## James Ludlow (Apr 24, 2012)

> The low quantity of 3x3x3 cubes available on our website today is due to a legal action initiated by Seven Towns Ltd., owner of the Rubik trademark. The company is trying to force specialized cubes resellers worldwide to stop the sales of any cube brand and type, included 2x2x2, 4x4x4, 5x5x5 and most probably other types. This obviously includes any speed cube.If Seven Towns Ltd wins this battle, the whole speed cubing world will be thrown out of existence and there will be only Rubik brand cubes on the market. ICubiK and all the other cubeshops are fighting this battle to let the cube enthusiast enjoy their favorite hobby now and in the future. we will do our best to have the largest possible selection of items offered on sale, within the terms of this legal battle.
> 
> iCubiK.com staff



i received an email from icubik today, which in. a nutshell says that SevenTowns is trying to block the sale of any cube other than Rubik's.


Does anybody have any further info on this?



Also can we try to avoid the innevitable Verdes references please? No flaming, just useful info please?

James


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## SweetSolver (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh no, this is extremely bad.  

I did hear about this somewhere. When they say *all* cubing shops I'm guessing they just mean the major shops.


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## tx789 (Apr 24, 2012)

Rubik can't take it that we buy speed cubes


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## Sillas (Apr 24, 2012)

It's sad. Rubik's brand can't monopolize the production of puzzles. Even being the inventor of 3x3, and have patents, must receive only their part of royalties and nothing more.
They are moving this action because can't competing with the quality of another brands.


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## hcfong (Apr 24, 2012)

Yes, you will still be able to use your speedcubes at comps. WCA operates independently from Seventowns, and Seventowns doesn't have any say in what cubes can be used in competitions. The only thing they can do is to stop sponsoring competitions, which will mainly affect UK competitions.


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## tx789 (Apr 24, 2012)

cubecraze1 said:


> If this happens would i be able to use my speed cubes in comp? If not what a waste of money


 
it might affect worlds since they sponser it.


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## ottozing (Apr 24, 2012)

guys dont worry its not like seventowns is going to win this.


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## cubecraze1 (Apr 24, 2012)

ottozing said:


> guys dont worry its not like seventowns isnt going to win this.


 
I don't understand your saying that i shouldn't worry because seventowns will win this???
If they win this then that is something to worry about


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## pi.cubed (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't get the point of this. What good is it going to do for Seventowns?
They are not losing any money from us buying Dayan cubes, for example, becuase speedcubers are pretty much the only people who buy them. If Dayan (and other speedcube brands) didn't exist then we wouldn't revert back to Rubik's, many people would just stop speedcubing.
All it is going to do is damage Seventowns' reputation. They will also lose a lot of advertising as speedcubers provide a lot of marketing for them.
One thing I found really annoying was in an article a couple of years (I think) back when Rubik's used the WRs to promote themselves, without saying anything about how they were on other brand cubes and that the records wouldn't be anywhere near as fast on a Rubik's brand.
Surely Rubik's wouldn't destroy the hobby (and livelihood in a way for some) of many people for pretty much no advantage to themselves?
:confused:

edit: Why are there only 9 replies to this massive issue?


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## pdilla (Apr 24, 2012)

^ +1

Barring the sales of speedcubes won't make us buy your crappy Rubik's brand, Seventowns.


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## SweetSolver (Apr 24, 2012)

pi.cubed said:


> I don't get the point of this. What good is it going to do for Seventowns?
> They are not losing any money from us buying Dayan cubes, for example, becuase speedcubers are pretty much the only people who buy them. If Dayan (and other speedcube brands) didn't exist then we wouldn't revert back to Rubik's, many people would just stop speedcubing.
> All it is going to do is damage Seventowns' reputation. They will also lose a lot of advertising as speedcubers provide a lot of marketing for them.
> One thing I found really annoying was in an article a couple of years (I think) back when Rubik's used the WRs to promote themselves, without saying anything about how they were on other brand cubes and that the records wouldn't be anywhere near as fast on a Rubik's brand.
> ...



You have a very good point. I was just thinking about some of those things aswell. Anyway, the reason there is hardly any replies is because it was only started an hour ago any many people haven't been online since then (obviously.) In 48 hours I think pretty much all of the active members on this forum will be aware this stupid thing that SevenTowns is doing.


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## aronpm (Apr 24, 2012)

pi.cubed said:


> edit: Why are there only 9 replies to this massive issue?


95% of posts in this thread are just going to be "baww I want my guhong"

if people don't have anything to contribute to the discussion (ie. information) there is no point posting


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## Chrisalead (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't understand why Seventown and Dayan (and other good speedcube manufacturers) cannot get to a commercial deal ?!?
Ok, They invented the cube (well, Mr Rubik did), they want money from people who sell good speedcubes (ok again... money rules the world...), can't they simply take a percentage on their sales ?


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## Godmil (Apr 24, 2012)

Chrisalead said:


> can't they simply take a percentage on their sales ?



That may be a possibility, but in many ways Seventowns doesn't have the right to demand a percentage. The mechanical design patent has long since expired (not that Dayan or V-cubes use it anyway). This whole image trademark thing is messy, Seventowns may not have a leg to stand on, but they certainly have the legal muscle to cause problems.

Can you imagine what it will be like if we can no longer buy speedcubes? We'll need to take good care of our current dayans, or we'll need some people with 3d printers to be making us spare parts.... agh, anyway that may not happen. Hopefully this will all blow over.


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## Kirjava (Apr 24, 2012)

James Ludlow said:


> i received an email from icubik today, which in. a nutshell says that SevenTowns is trying to block the sale of any cube other than Rubik's.



This has been happening in various forms for a while now, and it has never really had an effect on the market.

China doesn't care, lightake et al will still send you cubes.



James Ludlow said:


> Also can we try to avoid the innevitable Verdes references please? No flaming, just useful info please?



Verdes will become relevant at some point. Could someone explain to me why VCubes can produce and sell a 3x3x3 legally when the trademark is for the cube's image and not the mech?



tx789 said:


> Rubik can't take it that we buy speed cubes



Rubik really doesn't care. We're not their target market and they've tolerated it for a long long time. They have videos on their official channel of people using non-branded cubes. They let people use non-branded cubes at official competitions that they sponsor. The KOs may even be helping boost their sales via advertising.



Sillas said:


> They are moving this action because can't competing with the quality of another brands.



Please don't make up claims that you do not know are true. Rubik's are likely just protecting their trademark, as is legally required of them.



hcfong said:


> The only thing they can do is to stop sponsoring competitions, which will mainly affect UK competitions.



This isn't the only thing they can do, and this will not be something they do. 



pi.cubed said:


> edit: Why are there only 9 replies to this massive issue?



It's not a massive issue - this entire thread is fearmongering.

tl;dr 

Seventowns contacted icubik and scared them a little and because this thread had been make everyone is going to panic about nothing.


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## HelpCube (Apr 24, 2012)

Quick, everybody buy as many Zhanchis as you can!

Seriously though? I don't think anything will come out of this. If they actually end up going to court, there's no way Seven Towns will win.


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## Ninja Storm (Apr 24, 2012)

Patents only last 20 years, right?

...Then what's the problem here?


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## James Ludlow (Apr 24, 2012)

pdilla said:


> ^ +1
> 
> Barring the sales of speedcubes won't make us buy your crappy Rubik's brand, Seventowns.


 
This is the type of reply that I asked to not have. 

On subject - how long do patents last?

James



aronpm said:


> 95% of posts in this thread are just going to be "baww I want my guhong"
> 
> if people don't have anything to contribute to the discussion (ie. information) there is no point posting


 
Given that potentially this is massive, let's keep on subject, and keep it constructive please. 

James


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## pi.cubed (Apr 24, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> It's not a massive issue - this entire thread is fearmongering.
> tl;dr
> Seventowns contacted icubik and scared them a little and because this thread had been make everyone is going to panic about nothing.



I see.
So do you think that Rubik's will not even take it to court if this 'threat' doesn't work?


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## tx789 (Apr 24, 2012)

V cu es lasts to 2023 it say. Copyright 2012-2023 on there website so just over 20years


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## Godmil (Apr 24, 2012)

James Ludlow said:


> This is the type of reply that I asked to not have.
> 
> On subject - how long do patents last?


 
You can't complain about the posting quality, then double post, and ask a question that was answered in the post before yours 

Yes, 20 years seems to be a kinda standard, but it's irrelevant as we already know the Rubiks patent has expired long ago. The issue is with them claiming the look of the cube is their trademark (which they have a duty to defent for fear of weakening it). However, there is no hard rule that says they Do have the trademark of the image of the cube... that needs to be decided in court. However I can't see them going to court with any of the chinese companies... it's much easier to threaten small companies who can't do anything about it (re: individual shops).


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## Kirjava (Apr 24, 2012)

pi.cubed said:


> I see.
> So do you think that Rubik's will not even take it to court if this 'threat' doesn't work?


 
Who cares if they do? icubik doesn't produce any cubes.


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## Chrisalead (Apr 24, 2012)

Yes but for example there is nothing anymore interesting (3x3 speaking) on iCubiK now... And it's a shame because it was the fastest deliverer for my country. Now I buy cubes at iCubeMart but they takes 3 times longer to deliver and the shopping fee is higher !


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## pi.cubed (Apr 24, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Who cares if they do? icubik doesn't produce any cubes.


I meant if they went to court in an attempt to make the making and selling of all Dayan, Shengen etc cubes illegal.
And I was asking if you thought they would bother to do that.


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## Kirjava (Apr 24, 2012)

pi.cubed said:


> I meant if they went to court in an attempt to make the making and selling of all Dayan, Shengen etc cubes illegal.
> And I was asking if you thought they would bother to do that.


 
I doubt they'd be able to, and if they did - China doesn't care anyway.


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## stoic (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm reminded of this from a while back



MichaelErskine said:


> This whole thing will blow over and not affect individuals buying their DIYs in kit form from China. Nothing to see here. Move along...


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## Godmil (Apr 24, 2012)

Yeah, it probably wont affect us directly, but if it forces small cube shops to go out of business then it's still a negative effect on the community overall.


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## E3cubestore (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm not too worried because there's no legal ground that I can see.

The rubiks cube patent expired long ago and they only own a patent to the color scheme.

If the speed cube producing companies have a good lawyer, there shouldn't be any problem at all.

The worst they can do is make it so all 3x3x3's have purple stickers.


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## balloon6610 (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't think seventowns can win at all. How such a big company like V-cubes lose right ?


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## MaeLSTRoM (Apr 24, 2012)

balloon6610 said:


> I don't think seventowns can win at all. How such a big company like V-cubes lose right ?


 
This isnt against V-cubes.....


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## Kirjava (Apr 24, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> The rubiks cube patent expired long ago and they only own a patent to the color scheme.



They own a trademark, not a patent.



E3cubestore said:


> If the speed cube producing companies have a good lawyer, there shouldn't be any problem at all.



They don't need a laywer, they will produce cubes regardless. It's China.



balloon6610 said:


> I don't think seventowns can win at all. How such a big company like V-cubes lose right ?


 
lol do you think VCubes are bigger than 7towns?

vcubes aren't even being targeted here.


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## Cube-Fu (Apr 24, 2012)

Legal obligations only it seems; Seventowns, losing lots of money but still selling cubes, Erno Rubik, multi-millionaire. Do you know how many cubes are sold in the U.K. every year, compare that to the amount of people involved in competitions (interested in speed solving) and look at it from the point of view of the street ... 'Hey, I've always wanted to get one of those things, where can I get one?'
'Well, if you want to get really fast, you'll need a special cube, you have to buy one from China; or you can get a not so good one from down the road for a tenner, it'll be really solid, and last years, but you won't be able to beat any records.' 
'I've just always wanted one, I don't even know how to solve it.'
'Oh! Ok.'


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## ben1996123 (Apr 24, 2012)

they cant stop every cube manufacturer in the world making cubes. its no big deal.


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## izovire (Apr 24, 2012)

I emailed seventowns legal about a year ago. I covered up as a mother named Sharon that was about to order from a 'speedcube' website. 

(I've since lost the email... but this is what I can recall)

Sharon's concern was that her son wanted to buy from a website that didn't say they were Rubik's brand or not. So Sharon gave him a link to the products and asked if it was still okay to buy. Here was the reply:

_Hi Sharon, 

That website is likely for speed cubers and we have no relations with them. Often times they will want a cube manufactured in China because they perform better. We do not intend to bother these online sellers but we do have customs take action and seize bulk imports of copied Rubik's Cubes. Thank you for your concern._

Remember this was a year ago and idk if they have different motives. Right now I'm not too concerned until a 2nd or 3rd store encounters the same problem like iCubik. 
I'm still pissed at Verdes for last months claims... But what does it matter? China will still make these cubes and we can still get them. Only bad thing is that it slows down progress in making better cubes all the time. Crap like this makes me less motivated in making new puzzles (yep I have plans).


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## Godmil (Apr 24, 2012)

izovire said:


> I'm still pissed at Verdes for last months claims...



Not wanting to derail, but what did I miss?


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## Thunderbolt (Apr 24, 2012)

They won't make it. I think I remember similar case. V-cube accuse yj's cubes makers of stealing theirs patent. As you see you can still buy every YJ from 2x2 to 7x7 and more


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## MalusDB (Apr 24, 2012)

What Kir said is right, its fearmongering. No need to blow things out of proportion.


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## retep (Apr 24, 2012)

Why don't they just improve their cube design?


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## benskoning (Apr 24, 2012)

#seventowns2012 lol

Do any cube manufactures have any ground to stand on if the patent is gone?


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## Robbytrooper (Apr 24, 2012)

retep said:


> Why don't they just improve their cube design?


 
Reading through this thread has had me asking the same question. Why do they not employ someone to help them develop a Rubik's brand speedcube? They can call it the Rubiks Pro or something like that, if it's any good they could make a lot of money from it instead of seeming targetting these smaller companies who are just responding to the demand for faster cubes.


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## chardison1980 (Apr 24, 2012)

*barring of selling speedcubes*

first off, trying to basically corner the market to stop all other companies from selling speed cubes is a load of crap, if rubiks has to do this to further their business thats pretty sad.


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## ThomasJE (Apr 24, 2012)

Robbytrooper said:


> Reading through this thread has had me asking the same question. Why do they not employ someone to help them develop a Rubik's brand speedcube? They can call it the Rubiks Pro or something like that, if it's any good they could make a lot of money from it instead of seeming targetting these smaller companies who are just responding to the demand for faster cubes.



I agree. If Samsung made a tablet that was much better, would Apple stop them selling it? No, Apple would make a better version on the iPad to compete with them. Same here. If someone makes a better product than you, you wouldn't go and complain; you would make a better model to compete with them. It's very simple; people are just making it complicated.


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## Ickathu (Apr 24, 2012)

Robbytrooper said:


> Reading through this thread has had me asking the same question. Why do they not employ someone to help them develop a Rubik's brand speedcube? They can call it the Rubiks Pro or something like that, if it's any good they could make a lot of money from it instead of seeming targetting these smaller companies who are just responding to the demand for faster cubes.


 
Exactly. I, personally, _would_ buy a Rubik's brand if it was a new design and supposedly a "speedcube." I don't really care what company makes the cube, I'll be perfectly willing to try it out if I see a few good YT reviews on any cube.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 24, 2012)

Robbytrooper said:


> Reading through this thread has had me asking the same question. Why do they not employ someone to help them develop a Rubik's brand speedcube? They can call it the Rubiks Pro or something like that, if it's any good they could make a lot of money from it instead of seeming targetting these smaller companies who are just responding to the demand for faster cubes.


They don't do this because the extra money they would make from it would be irrelevant compared to what they make from their standard cubes. I have tested a few prototype 2x2s and 3x3s for them but in the end, they're not bothered that they aren't suitable for speedcubing.


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## 5BLD (Apr 24, 2012)

The way I see it all they want to do is 'flex their muscles'.
Tbh we are powerless to stop them. They can do whatever they want. All we can do is try to get them to see it from our perspective, which is difficult.


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## Kurbitur (Apr 24, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> I agree. If Samsung made a tablet that was much better, would Apple stop them selling it? No, Apple would make a better version on the iPad to compete with them. Same here. If someone makes a better product than you, you wouldn't go and complain; you would make a better model to compete with them. It's very simple; people are just making it complicated.


 
Well like verde and now seven town are doing it the opposite. If they can't beat them they just scare the small shops so the cubes can't be sold which is very pathetic


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## ~Adam~ (Apr 24, 2012)

Surely speedcubing is a fantastic free advert for Rubik.
With the millions of views the 5.66 has had how many people bought a Dayan and how many bought a Rubik?


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## bigbee99 (Apr 24, 2012)

They have contacted me about this too, around August~September-ish

If you just show that your cooperating for a while, then they leave you alone for the most part.

Haven't heard from them since September


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## Sebastien (Apr 24, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> I agree. If Samsung made a tablet that was much better, would Apple stop them selling it? No, Apple would make a better version on the iPad to compete with them. Same here. If someone makes a better product than you, you wouldn't go and complain; you would make a better model to compete with them. It's very simple; people are just making it complicated.


 
Dude...dirst of all this DID happen and Apple actually tried to make Samsung stopping selling it.

But more important: I have the feeling that many speedcubers take themselves way too important. In fact we are just like a small piece of dust within the whole crowd of people buying cubes. 99% of those people wouldn't even think about if a cube can be good or bad. So it is actually pretty obvious that Seventowns produces just cubes that _turn quite well_ and don't pop to satisfy the overwhelming majority of their customers.


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## insane569 (Apr 24, 2012)

Well when you see a speedcubing video and you know nothing about speedcubes, you assume that they're using a rubiks brand. So most go "Hey Ima get me a rubiks cube and get really fast at this" then they realize they can't turn fast on a rubiks compared to the cubes shown in most speedcubing videos. So then they rage quit and get rid of the rubiks cube. So 7 towns gets some money and no one else gets into speedcubing. We stay small, 7T gets more money and all the small cube making companies get no new buyers.


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## CubeRoots (Apr 24, 2012)

Samsung paid a settlement to apple to not let it go to court. Rubik's brand aren't interested in making cubes amazing, their market is people who take it as a puzzle that teases them and as a gift etc. These people arent bothered if these cubes cut corners like a guhong or rarely pop, they just want the original puzzle for around £10. it's a stocking filler, the cheaper the better for rubiks so why would they waste their money making it better when most buyers couldnt care less.


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## Yuxuibbs (Apr 25, 2012)

I think we should just tell rubik's (seven towns) to stop or just go to court and make them stop trying to take over the cubing companies and actually making "good" cubes. I'm sure if they came up with something that compared to the dayan cubes (obviously assuming they don't copy the designs like v cubes did) they would be the ones getting some money from speed cubers.


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## megaminxwin (Apr 25, 2012)

Really?

There's not much they can do here. The patent is expired, pretty much all they can do is stop them selling the cubes with the colour scheme, and even then we can get stickers from somewhere else.

Also, does anyone know if the "seize and destroy bulk Rubik's cubes" is actually true? Sounds like just a threatening move to me, considering shops like E3CubeStore.


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## Joël (Apr 25, 2012)

retep said:


> Why don't they just improve their cube design?


 
From what I have heard, Mr Rubik is quite conservative when it comes to changing the design of the original Rubik's Cube. I remember talking to Ton Dennebroek after I got a new LunHui (which was pretty new at the time), and he told me he suggested similar designs...



Kirjava said:


> Rubik really doesn't care.



From what I have also heard is that Mr Rubik is also a bit sad about the fact that speedcubers don't use Rubik's brand cubes in competition anymore. I suspect that this is emotional rather than a financial type of 'caring'.

Both of these statements seem a little contradictory. I'll check with my source the next time I see him.


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## thatkid (Apr 25, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> Dude...dirst of all this DID happen and Apple actually tried to make Samsung stopping selling it.



yes but the problem was the time of release because apple didn't want samsung to release their new tablet around christmas

on topic, I think its just how kirjava says it. * china doesn't care *


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## Cubenovice (Apr 25, 2012)

megaminxwin said:


> Also, does anyone know if the "seize and destroy bulk* Rubik's* cubes" is actually true? Sounds like just a threatening move to me, considering shops like E3CubeStore.



Offcourse it is true.
If the "non-rubik's" cubes are passed of as "Rubik's cube" it is a counterfeit issue and seize and destroy is appropriate.
But this is a different discussion all together and not related to shops selling V-cubes, Dayan's, etc.


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## jla (Apr 25, 2012)

Name list?


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## Eazoon (Apr 25, 2012)

seventowns is still selling lots of cubes, i started cubing two years ago and all i had was a ten year old rubiks. And the next year i wanted a faster cube, so i got a new rubiks. I didn't get a dayan until my rubiks broke and i averaged 32 seconds, and i STILL want another rubiks for the collection. And i would reccomend a rubiks to anyone who averages over 40 seconds because that way they learn to make percise turns. 

So all together they sold me 2 cubes and later i will buy another, so thats 3 cubes to me, and 1 or 2 cubes to each person i reccomend them to. And they still have the crap toys they sell to people who can't solve cubes.


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## ~Adam~ (Apr 25, 2012)

If you want to get into amounts of money spent on Rubik products I have at least a dozen 3x3s, 2 4x4s, a 5x5, a wooden 30 year addition, ice cube, 2x2 and 3x3 globes.
I bought most of the Rubik's 3x3s after I got my 1st DIY because they are good for mods and are 2 for £15 from Argos.

Long story short I think I've given Rubik enough money to warrant me buying 'knock offs'.


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## gundamslicer (Apr 25, 2012)

What's the point of it? It's like technology, if you don't upgrade your product to be more effective, then other companies will and people will turn to them instead. Rubiks should put more money into research to make their cubes more friendly to speedcubers rather than wreck their reputation by attempting to shut down the sales of other branded cubes


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## Cube-Fu (Apr 25, 2012)

gundamslicer said:


> What's the point of it? It's like technology, if you don't upgrade your product to be more effective, then other companies will and people will turn to them instead. Rubiks should put more money into research to make their cubes more friendly to speedcubers rather than wreck their reputation by attempting to shut down the sales of other branded cubes


 That's a pretty good point, they don't even have to be the best, they have nothing to fear they already have a good reputation.


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## Riley (Apr 25, 2012)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204319004577088513615125328.html

This article doesn't really talk about the legal issues that much, but still is interesting. Quote from it: "In Budapest, meanwhile, the reclusive Mr. Rubik, 67 years old, is working on a new solution to the marketing problem—his own version of the speed cubes to compete with the Chinese.

No rush, though. "We've been working on it for five years," said Janos Kovacs, chief executive at the puzzle-master's Rubik Studio design firm."


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## Ninja Storm (Apr 26, 2012)

Riley said:


> No rush, though. "We've been working on it for five years," said Janos Kovacs, chief executive at the puzzle-master's Rubik Studio design firm."


 
Interesting. If Rubik's makes a good speedcube, I'll definitely pick one up.


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## RNewms27 (Apr 26, 2012)

"There are deviant competitions, including five-by-five and *eight-by-eight* cubes."

Uh, cool.

Anyway, companies have nothing to worry about. Seventowns is a ninja trying to take down a horde of whales.


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## E3cubestore (Apr 26, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> They own a trademark, not a patent.
> 
> 
> They don't need a laywer, they will produce cubes regardless. It's China.



Point 1: touché 

Point 2: a nice thought but not extremely realistic. China has improved at cracking down on KO companies, and I'm not talking just puzzles here.

For instance, I play airsoft and several companies were destroying the legit airsoft market with cheap yet high quality clones. Legal issues came up and several companies got shut down, and tons of different types of airsoft guns began illegal to import to the USA and they eventually disappeared.

As far as cubing goes, sure we will still get speedcubes, but a company as big as seven towns can put an ugly complication to it all.

Food for thought: has anyone bothered to wonder why LanLan, QJ, YJ, and other similar companies haven't released any new puzzles?? A year ago they were pumping out new kinds right and left, I have a feeling they are having legal issues....



megaminxwin said:


> Really?
> 
> There's not much they can do here. The patent is expired, pretty much all they can do is stop them selling the cubes with the colour scheme, and even then we can get stickers from somewhere else.
> 
> Also, does anyone know if the "seize and destroy bulk Rubik's cubes" is actually true? Sounds like just a threatening move to me, considering shops like E3CubeStore.



As far as "seize and destroy" goes, it's a very real threat. Again I will take it into the unrelated but relevant example of airsoft guns. 

"...bad news. Apparently, both AGM and CYMA's owners has been arrested and factories dismantled. They are being prosecuted for illegal guns manufacture in accordance to PRC's laws.

That's it folks. That is why no new products from China lately. News confirmed, as we received almost verbatim message from three different and highly reputable sources"

That's a quote from an airsoft article, the same article later describes how the officials destroyed 3000 gun replicas.

Airsoft is a larger market and therefore more susceptible.

But don't kid yourselves and say nothing bad could happen though...

Not to sound melodramatic but apathy is an invitation for rights to be removed.


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## Kirjava (Apr 26, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> Food for thought: has anyone bothered to wonder why LanLan, QJ, YJ, and other similar companies haven't released any new puzzles?? A year ago they were pumping out new kinds right and left, I have a feeling they are having legal issues....


 
Foolish conclusion.


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## MalusDB (Apr 26, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Foolish conclusion.


Elaborate.


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## E3cubestore (Apr 26, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Foolish conclusion.


 
I love how u completely ignore the core of my post to disagree with a passing quandary.


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## Jaycee (Apr 26, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> I love how u completely ignore the core of my post to disagree with a passing quandary.


 
Perhaps he only responded to the the part he actually felt needed a response?


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## asportking (Apr 26, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> Perhaps he only responded to the the part he actually felt needed a response?


 
I wouldn't qualify this:



Kirjava said:


> Foolish conclusion.



as a response. The least he could do is explain *why* it is a foolish conclusion. I can understand why, but whoever posted it obviously doesn't.


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## YouCube4x4 (Apr 26, 2012)

if rubiks wants to sell more cubes then they need to MAKE THEIR CUBES BETTER....what they don't realize is that if they did win then that wouldn't make any more people buy their cubes, in fact less people would buy them because they would be so mad at them.


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## BlueDevil (Apr 26, 2012)

YouCube4x4 said:


> in fact *fewer* people would buy them because they would be so mad at them.


fixed.

and... false

Only speedcubers would be mad, and we don't buy from them anyway. They lose little (other than maybe publicity from WRs). But this is just some legal stuff. We need to sit back and just see where things go before we get really worried.


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## David Zemdegs (Apr 26, 2012)

Seventowns cannot make speed cubes as they are "dangerous" to the general public. They also have no intention of stopping the sales of cubes for competition. If they are taking legal action against one company then something else is going on. Further investigation is needed.


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## Kirjava (Apr 26, 2012)

Just because a company hasn't made a new product recently doesn't mean they are facing legal action.

Jumping to conclusions on issues like this only serves to spread further fear and unnecessary panic.


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## E3cubestore (Apr 26, 2012)

Like I said its food for thought, don't laugh away legal stuff. Law rarely follows the most rational path.

Also I'm not offended per se, but confused that you think those companies aren't having legal trouble. I know for a fact that lanlan made a nice quality gear cube and it was only available a very short time before Meffert's got that puzzle's production terminated. Meffert's openly claims to attempt to shut down those companies, just hang out on twisty puzzles forum for a day, those KO business have some serious enemies.

Lol and I could care less if 12 year olds panic, but I'm talking facts that I know


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## Cubenovice (Apr 26, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> I know for a fact that lanlan made a nice quality gear cube and it was only available a very short time before Meffert's got that puzzle's production terminated. Meffert's openly claims to attempt to shut down those companies, just hang out on twisty puzzles forum for a day, those KO business have some serious enemies.



Seems logical and justified as it is clearly a case of Knock-Offs.

Normal 3x3x3 cubes are different story as there is no longer a utility patent:
- just do not brand or call them Rubik's Cubes or try to pass them off as Rubik's (counterfeiting)
- then there is this not-so-clear color scheme trademark thingy


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## Bapao (Apr 26, 2012)

You'll still be able to buy your cubes from Chinese stores and probably elsewhere too. This will have no effect on the larger Chinese companies producing cubes and selling them to the Chinese population. So even if resellers in the west can't get their hands on speed cubes as a consequence, manufacturers will still be able to push enough merchandise in their own country to stay above water. China has it's own laws and couldn't care less what 7T wants or demands. 

Big shipments to western resellers being confiscated at customs is the only potentially bad outcome of this IMO. We can feel sorry for those resellers and those that rely on them as their only source for purchasing speed cubes. But it's far fetched to deem this as the end of speed cubes.

Calm down.


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## Kirjava (Apr 26, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> Like I said its food for thought, don't laugh away legal stuff.



Why not? Ignoring it worked in the past. For all the many apparent legal issues cube producers have had, the effect on the consumer is almost invisible.

Remember when the Maru4 was made 'illegal' by VCubes? Getting hold of it was a case of using a different store for a month or so.



E3cubestore said:


> Also I'm not offended per se, but confused that you think those companies aren't having legal trouble.



You would do well to make less assumptions. I never said that companies aren't having legal trouble - I said that just because companies aren't making new products doesn't mean they're having legal trouble.

Eastsheen haven't produced a new puzzle since before 2004 - it would be more than foolish to assume that this is because of legal trouble.



E3cubestore said:


> just hang out on twisty puzzles forum for a day



I don't think that would go down well. 



E3cubestore said:


> Lol and I could care less if 12 year olds panic



You care about 12 year olds panicing? Good for you.


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## yockee (Apr 26, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> The rubiks cube patent expired long ago and they only own a patent to the color scheme.


 
It's not a patent to the color scheme.  What they own is the trademark / rights to the OVERALL LOOK of the 3x3 cube. That's why Dayan was allowed to continue with purple stickers. It changed the LOOK of the 3x3 cube (even though it's such a petty change).


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## E3cubestore (Apr 26, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Why not? Ignoring it worked in the past. For all the many apparent legal issues cube producers have had, the effect on the consumer is almost invisible.
> 
> Remember when the Maru4 was made 'illegal' by VCubes? Getting hold of it was a case of using a different store for a month or so.
> 
> ...



When you see that things happen the same every time and you conclude it will happen the same way again, you are using inductive reasoning, which is much less reliable than deductive reasoning.

Also remember for a short time the guhong was illegal, and the price went up significantly, which is good news for stores who operate under the radar but bad for cubers.

Touché about the assumptions, but you originally had a problem with me having "a feeling certain companies were having legal issues" is my hunch really that offensive to you?

Eastsheen has no new ideas and they make sucky products. If you have alternate theories on why the Chinese clone companies haven't been making new ones, then present a better theory rather than arguing against a perfectly relevant and acceptable hypothesis.

Actually I think it would be really funny.

Despite the way the phrase "I could care less" sounds and looks grammatically, the expression is commonly used to denote the lack of caring.


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## Bapao (Apr 26, 2012)

DaYan actually mentioned he was done with 3x3x3s after the ZhanChi was released. Since then we've seen the LingYun and GuHong V2s, but those aren't really new cubes.

The Alpha CC was more or less slammed by the community. "Alpha" put a lot of time into that cube, so I guess they feel burnt.

ShengEn screwed the Type-F line up by releasing the F-III.

WitEden brought out the half-decent C-IV.

It's not like new cubes aren't being released. People are starting to expect a certain level of performance that not every company is up to delivering. I can understand why those companies would rather put resources into other products and ideas...

*@E3cubestore* 

But wouldn't "I couldn't care less" be more fitting than "I could care less"? 

"I couldn't care less" as in "There's no way I could care any less" 
"I could care less" as in "I could care less, but I don't" 

English isn't my mother tongue so I'm just speculating...


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## Kirjava (Apr 26, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> When you see that things happen the same every time and you conclude it will happen the same way again, you are using inductive reasoning, which is much less reliable than deductive reasoning.



ok?!



E3cubestore said:


> Also remember for a short time the guhong was illegal, and the price went up significantly



No. I remember buying two guhongs during this time period for the same price as normal.



E3cubestore said:


> Touché about the assumptions, but you originally had a problem with me having "a feeling certain companies were having legal issues" is my hunch really that offensive to you?



You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.



E3cubestore said:


> Eastsheen has no new ideas and they make sucky products. If you have alternate theories on why the Chinese clone companies haven't been making new ones, then present a better theory rather than arguing against a perfectly relevant and acceptable hypothesis.



Explain why the universe exists, otherwise God did it.



E3cubestore said:


> Actually I think it would be really funny.



You misunderstand why it wouldn't go down well since you've only been active since 2010.



E3cubestore said:


> Despite the way the phrase "I could care less" sounds and looks grammatically, the expression is commonly used to denote the lack of caring.



You said the opposite of what you meant, which causes trouble for people reading your post.

Not everyone is American and understands specific (incorrect) colloquialisms.

Also, it makes you sound like an imbecile who doesn't think about what he's saying.


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## Erik (Apr 26, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> SAVE THOM


 
And the others! 



Spoiler



Ethan Rosen, Pembo, Kirjava etc. oh and somehow I got banned too 




EDIT: might as well post sth on-topic ;-) 

We'll never go back to the Rubik's brand-era. They can't get rid of the copies. The only way is if they make a better cube than we have now, which I don't see happening.


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