# Triplex



## uhallgeo (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi!

I've written a little rubik-like puzzle, I call the puzzle Triplex. I can't solve it. One of your members suggested I post here and see if someone in this brain bank can solve Triplex. 

I'm not a real cuber. (Although, I have solved the 3x3 in about 30 days.) I'm just a programmer.

I've posted Triplex on www.kidpaint.net That's my website. It's not a real website, but it's a public place that doesn't require you to do anything to see Triplex. (Assuming you can view Flash.)

I know the solution involves a sequence that will reposition a puzzle piece or pair of pieces while leaving the rest alone. But, for the life of me, I can't figure it out. If you can show me one or two sequences, I think I can add the 'SOLVE' button to the program and make it enjoyable for everyone.

The puzzle is a work in progress. If you return the puzzle to it's original state, it won't tell you. I've coded a 'you're finished' thing, but you have to hit the lowercase 'L' to see it. (Hit shift+l to turn it off.) The reason I haven't hooked it in yet, is I'm not sure what 'finished' is. As you can see, the puzzle has several identical pieces. I am not sure whether the puzzle is 'done' if these pieces are interchanged. Heck, I'm not even sure you CAN interchange them.

Anyway, I hope you can help me out and show me how to solve Triplex. I've looked on the web and so far, haven't found a solution yet. The closest I have seen is Jaap's Trio and Turnstile. Turnstile is the closest and it may be adaptable, but I'm still struggling. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

-george


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## Escher (Oct 24, 2011)

I only had 2 minutes spare to play with this but I'm pretty sure I know how to solve it now. It's not too difficult, especially if you're a cuber (think pyraminx).


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## Stefan (Oct 24, 2011)

Neat "you're finished" effect. A timer would be nice. And you got CW and CCW mixed up.

If pieces are identical, then their order shouldn't matter and it should count as finished either way.

You can interchange whatever you want, just not two pieces without changing anything else.


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## uhallgeo (Oct 24, 2011)

Stefan-

I assume you mean a mouse click should be CW and not CCW? OK, I'll switch it.

Re: Identical pieces in different places. Internal to the code, each piece is it's own unique instance. So, I was waiting to see if I should run a test like spot3 == piece2. But, what you said is correct. I could just as easily run a test like spot3 == Green to test the puzzle's completion.

I'll hook in the effect. 

-george


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## uhallgeo (Oct 24, 2011)

Escher-

I looked up Pyraminx since i wasn't familiar with it. I suspect you maybe correct. Triplex is a three sided, 2D Pyraminx. 

However, having the fourth side also allows you to 'park' a tile. You can't do that with Triplex. 

Solutions to Pyraminx are posted on the web. I'll look hard at it tonight.

- george


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## Stefan (Oct 24, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> I assume you mean a mouse click should be CW and not CCW? OK, I'll switch it.



I'd prefer that, though what I meant was that *you* wrote "hold shift for CCW" which is not what it does.

Second solve 2:30.43, but I got lucky.


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## collinbxyz (Oct 24, 2011)

Very fun puzzle =D Good job, although I haven't solved yet. But still pretty close in about five minutes.


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## zerkelas (Oct 24, 2011)

Pretty neat puzzle! After a couple minutes all i have left are three of the triangular pieces (i have to rotate the white, blue, and yellow ones counterclockwise). Very fun!
EDIT: Finally solved it.


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## uhallgeo (Oct 24, 2011)

Stefan-

You SOLVED it?????? HOW! Please, please, please tell me how!!


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## collinbxyz (Oct 24, 2011)

I know you wouldn't know this (no offence uhallgeo) but the beginning I find is very similar to inserting F2L pairs on a megaminx or something. That's really what I think it is; a megaminx with three sides. Maybe I'm completely wrong of course...


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## jrb (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm almost done. This is a really fun little puzzle. I'll post when I'm done.


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## collinbxyz (Oct 24, 2011)

Oh btw, I found an algorithm for inserting an _edge_ for the _f2l_. like this:






I don't know how to say it though, since there is no actual notation. Should we make one? This is super fun, so I think we should...
Oh yes, and I have a good method to get to the point where only the top circle isn't solved.

This should definitely be turned into a _physical_ puzzle. I think you could contact Oscar who makes puzzles that he or others invent (with their permission, and gives them credit of course). Just an idea of something you could possibly turn this into.


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## uhallgeo (Oct 24, 2011)

collinbxyz-

You are correct.... I don't have a clue what Megaminx is. I looked it up. There's no way I could wrap my mind around that puzzle. 

However, I think Triplex is closer to Pyraminx as Escher pointed out. Either way, I am still solution-less.

I think Triplex can be solved by solving any one circle (at the expense of the other two) and then solving the other two without involving the first. I suspect this is how Stefan has solved it. However, this solution has a problem.... you must finish the first circle with the intersection stones and bones in a solvable position. I suspect this is not easy.

What I really need is two sequences. Each sequence would exchange two stones (or two bones) and leave the rest of the puzzle in tact. That would make my programming task a cake walk. Only thing wrong with that is..... I don't have those two sequences!!! 

Surely, someone must be able to post those sequences! .... no???

- george


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## pjk (Oct 24, 2011)

Did it just sub-5. It is pretty intuitive.


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## collinbxyz (Oct 24, 2011)

pjk said:


> Did it just sub-5. It is pretty intuitive.


 
Nice... This is what I'm at:





:fp


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## zerkelas (Oct 24, 2011)

pjk, what did you do to solve it? I solved red, than green, than blue, than solved the magenta/cyan/yellow/white area.


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## Stefan (Oct 24, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> I think Triplex can be solved by solving any one circle (at the expense of the other two) and then solving the other two without involving the first. I suspect this is how Stefan has solved it.



Pretty much, yes. Red part, blue part, green part intuitively, then simple commutators (like LR'L'R one to three times) with setups.



uhallgeo said:


> However, this solution has a problem.... you must finish the first circle with the intersection stones and bones in a solvable position. I suspect this is not easy.



That's always solvable.



uhallgeo said:


> What I really need is two sequences. Each sequence would exchange two stones (or two bones) and leave the rest of the puzzle in tact.



That's impossible.


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## qqwref (Oct 24, 2011)

I got a 1:08.64 solve using a rough blockbuilding method. I kinda feel like making my own version of this just to try it with proper higames controls...

EDIT: 49.68 lolol


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## RaresB (Oct 24, 2011)

I got a 1:34.25 just using some intuitive method. It's a very interesting puzzle but it would have a similar mechanism to the 15 sliding puzzle if it was made physical


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## cuber952 (Oct 24, 2011)

Got it for the first time in about 5-6 min.


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## uhallgeo (Oct 25, 2011)

Stefan-

Thanks for everything! I haven't actually 'solved' Triplex yet, but I now see the path.

I was hoping for the 'easy' two sequence solution because it would make programming the SOLVE button so much easier. Yeah, I'm lazy. But, I think I can make it work.

Now that I know I can solve it, I'll add all the stuff it needs like a clock, a best times board and a hint assistant.

Thanks again. Can I credit you?

-george


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## cubernya (Oct 25, 2011)

I think we should develop some notation for this puzzle.

I think it should be fairly basic. U, R, and L, naturally.
Now, for how many times to turn it? I think we should use R1 to turn it once CW. R2 to turn it twice CW. R3 to turn it 3 times either way. R1- for once CCW, R2- for twice CCW

Fairly self explanatory. For example, the sledgehammer would be R1- L1 R1 L1-


Also, hoping you get the clockwise/counterclockwise fixed. I really like a normal click to be clockwise


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## qqwref (Oct 25, 2011)

theZcuber said:


> I think it should be fairly basic. U, R, and L, naturally.


Why not U, R, and F, like three adjacent faces on the 3x3 or Megaminx?



theZcuber said:


> Now, for how many times to turn it? I think we should use R1 to turn it once CW. R2 to turn it twice CW. R3 to turn it 3 times either way. R1- for once CCW, R2- for twice CCW


Why not use a Megaminx-like notation? Those moves would be written R, R2, R3 (or R3'), R', R2'.


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## cubernya (Oct 25, 2011)

I honestly think the ' symbols are a bit small, so I put in a - symbol instead. Much more noticeable IMO
As for the R1 vs R, I think it's just more uniform to have them all have a number after it.

Edit: Also nearly solved it. Just left with a 3 cycle (CCW) of the triangle pieces in the middle


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## collinbxyz (Oct 25, 2011)

I think I found a faster method (maybe not, but it seems like it to me), which is to get the Blue+Green+LightBlue pieces in the correct spots, like this:





then you do some sort of algorithm(s) to solve the _top layer_ somehow. I can usually get the beginning part in 10-20 seconds easily. I just have no idea for LL. 

As for notation, I don't care much, although I'd prefer R R' R2 R2' R3. Maybe R1 and R1', but I don't think it's a huge deal.

EDIT: I was thinking maybe from there (what's in the pic above), you could do 2 look by doing an alg for making the red solved, then another for finishing the purple, yellow, and white pieces. Maybe this would be too many cases, I'm not sure, but again it's just a possible idea.


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## vcuber13 (Oct 25, 2011)

the color is cyan


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## Stefan (Oct 25, 2011)

lucky 35.61  ... After like 20 DNFs waiting for luck  Want a better method...



uhallgeo said:


> Stefan-
> Thanks for everything! I haven't actually 'solved' Triplex yet, but I now see the path.
> Thanks again. Can I credit you?



Didn't really tell you much...



qqwref said:


> Why not U, R, and F, like three adjacent faces on the 3x3 or Megaminx?



It's left-right symmetric, so L seems more natural. Especially for two-disk versions, and Jaap uses L and R there already.


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## Stefan (Oct 25, 2011)

collinbxyz gave me an idea:


Spoiler



1. Create the left state (gray pieces don't matter yet).
2. Create right state (easy, blue corner down with like LR'L'R then blue edge down with like (LR'L'R)2).
3. Finish with L R3.


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## qqwref (Oct 25, 2011)

Stefan said:


> 35.61  ... After like 20 DNFs  Want a better method... Edit: ok, got one now.


I'd beat you if this control scheme wasn't completely awful.


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## collinbxyz (Oct 25, 2011)

Stefan said:


> 35.61  ... After like 20 DNFs  Want a better method...


 
See my last post...

Ninja'd


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## Jaycee (Oct 25, 2011)

I enjoy having to think about a puzzle again.  So far I got all green in place, but it's only been about 3 minutes.


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## RNewms27 (Oct 25, 2011)

Wow can't believe I got it... 10 minutes or so. LL was mostly pairing the blue different ways while preserving the fused colors.


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## Stefan (Oct 25, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I'd beat you if this control scheme wasn't completely awful.



It's not that bad... are you using hover + arrowkeys?

(1:14.75), 56.66, 47.59, 55.93, (46.44) => *53.39 average*


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## thackernerd (Oct 25, 2011)

I can't get the middle part.


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## Jaycee (Oct 25, 2011)

RNewms27 said:


> LL was mostly pairing the blue different ways while preserving the fused colors.


 
This. I'm stuck here. Eh, I'll try it again in the morning. Time to get some sleep!


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## Stefan (Oct 25, 2011)

24.16... +2 :fp

Improved method:


Spoiler



1. Create that top part
2. Build blue and green parts
3. Cyan down (actually easy to do both corner and edge at the same time, often with just four turns)
4. U3






33.27, (44.63), (32.78), 34.68, 33.40 => *33.78 average*


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## qqwref (Oct 25, 2011)

Stefan said:


> It's not that bad... are you using hover + arrowkeys?]


Yeah. I make a ton of wrong turns though.



Stefan said:


> Improved method:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Oh man, sick, Ill have to try that.


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## SoulSeeker (Oct 25, 2011)

time was about 37seconds i guess and i used the mousewheel..

thx stefan  good method! obviously i still make a ton of "mistakes" but well for now its ok..


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## Cuberguy21 (Oct 25, 2011)

I got like 4 minutes


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## qqwref (Oct 25, 2011)

That method is even better than I thought. Sorry Pochmann...
17.65 lolsingle
(34.65), (17.65), 19.93, 22.86, 24.86 => 22.55
24.93, (34.65), (17.65), 19.93, 22.86, 24.86, 32.33, 22.71, 26.77, 24.77, 25.99, 18.60 => 24.38
(All timed with a separate qqtimer window.)


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## collinbxyz (Oct 25, 2011)

The Pochmann method for the Triplex! In the first 24 hours of it's release :fp

Realistically, good method!


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## Stefan (Oct 25, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Sorry Pochmann...



Well I was expecting you to beat me and hoping to see a sub20 average 
But what's up with calling me Pochmann in conversation, did Dene make you do that?

12.80 lolsingle (my only other sub20 was a 15.53)
25.40 average of 5
30.45 average of 12

I use stackmat plus CCT staying in the background.


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## nitay6669 (Oct 25, 2011)

rather easy...
my idea was the same as Stefan's one, putting the cyan-yellow-pink-white, ones on the top, but i didnt think about putting them there in the right order. neat one!!


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## collinbxyz (Oct 25, 2011)

Finally solved it using the second _pochmann method_. I just got stuck at a few things, but overall didn't take long. I think that a timer or some sort would be more important (an probably easier) than adding the solve button, since you can always reset. But great job, and keep us updated, please.

EDIT: A couple things I am having the most trouble with: I can get the purple/white/yellow matched up easy enough (had trouble with this before), but I always need to take out the yellow/purple to _match it up_ with red. This I can do, it just takes a while. My biggest issue is finishing the cyan... It seems easy, but I am awful at it. The first time I solved was easy for this. help?


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## emolover (Oct 25, 2011)

Solved it after few minutes of messing with it. It is very fun.

You should try to make the quadplex or some other more difficult variation of the puzzle.


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## vcuber13 (Oct 25, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Finally solved it using the second _pochmann method_. I just got stuck at a few things, but overall didn't take long. I think that a timer or some sort would be more important (an probably easier) than adding the solve button, since you can always reset. But great job, and keep us updated, please.
> 
> EDIT: A couple things I am having the most trouble with: I can get the purple/white/yellow matched up easy enough (had trouble with this before), but I always need to take out the yellow/purple to _match it up_ with red. This I can do, it just takes a while. My biggest issue is finishing the cyan... It seems easy, but I am awful at it. The first time I solved was easy for this. help?


 


Spoiler



like what stefan said, put the corner in (shouldnt be too hard) then sledgehammer a few times should work


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## collinbxyz (Oct 25, 2011)

This is what I got... 



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

But I like the timer, except that I'd like 15 seconds (at the very most) of inspection time, then it starts when I start turning, not right after it gets scrambled. I am getting better, I think.


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## vcuber13 (Oct 25, 2011)

the timer doesnt stop


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## collinbxyz (Oct 25, 2011)

vcuber13 said:


> the timer doesnt stop


 
I just realized this. But I think I got a 3:2x.xx


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## Stefan (Oct 25, 2011)

nitay6669 said:


> my idea was the same as Stefan's one, putting the cyan-yellow-pink-white, ones on the top, but i didnt think about putting them there in the right order.


 
Why did you want to put them on the top?

24.78 average of 5
26.73 average of 12

[youtubewide]rCyDPc_BGLQ[/youtubewide]


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## zerkelas (Oct 25, 2011)

vcuber13 said:


> the timer doesnt stop


 
My guess is that it has something to do with this:


Stefan said:


> Neat "you're finished" effect. A timer would be nice. And you got CW and CCW mixed up.
> 
> *If pieces are identical, then their order shouldn't matter and it should count as finished either way.*
> 
> You can interchange whatever you want, just not two pieces without changing anything else.


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## collinbxyz (Oct 25, 2011)

And I'm averaging about 3:00 

But I think I'm getting better.


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## jrb (Oct 25, 2011)

Thank you Stefan! Thanks to your method I can now solve Triplex

EDIT:


qqwref said:


> I kinda feel like making my own version of this just to try it with proper higames controls.



That would be awesome! Please make one


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## uhallgeo (Oct 25, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I'd beat you if this control scheme wasn't completely awful.



qqwref-

How can I improve the control scheme?? (I changed the click = CCW problem, added a timer and hooked in the lightning finish.) 
But, I'm open to any suggestion that would make it better.... just tell me.
- george


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## Stefan (Oct 25, 2011)

At least six keyboard keys would be nice, one for each direction of each disk. qqwref probably wants certain keys.

I just solved again, no lightning finish (and time keeps running).

And I find the default speed way too slow. Usually I use max or almost max speed. If I don't, I make two turns and it doesn't register the second because I did it before the first was shown


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## qqwref (Oct 26, 2011)

george: Well, okay, it isn't THAT bad. I mean, obviously it's good enough to get a 25ish average on. The problem is that almost every control scheme available requires both the keyboard AND mouse, and most of them revolve around the idea of selecting a wheel to turn and then doing something to actually turn it, which is pretty awkward and not very intuitive. The only pure control scheme you have is the up-down left-right one, and up and down is a really unintuitive way to select one of the wheels; the only control scheme that doesn't involve selecting and then turning is the click and shift-click one, which just feels uneven and is hard to get used to. I'd suggest a control scheme that more closely follows how it would feel to actually use this puzzle (although these are not necessarily *faster*), such as:
- right and left clicks turn the wheels in the two directions (I know Flash is bad for this, but you can do it in another language)
- each wheel has a clockwise and a counterclockwise button placed in obvious places (on or near the wheels), and are activated by clicking
- you can turn the wheels by dragging them in the appropriate direction - the length of the drag determines the amount of turn, and the wheels snap into a turnable position when you stop dragging
- have three keys (such as W A S) select the wheels instead of up-down, and keep the left-right keys to turn
- each of the 6 possible moves has a unique, customizable key


Anyway, I made my own speedsolving version (http://mzrg.com/js/triplex.html).
11.396 single (54 moves)
13.694 (17.553) (11.396) 16.086 12.022 => 13.934
17.38 (24.515) 13.694 17.553 (11.396) 16.086 12.022 20.036 18.52 12.65 19.83 16.94 => 16.471


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## Rpotts (Oct 26, 2011)

qqwref that whole post seems to ready backwards. The last listed option is exactly what you wanted, OH WAIT, you already made it and it's pretty much perfect kthxbai.


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## Forte (Oct 26, 2011)

Dunno if it's faster or anything, but I'm doing it like Green, Blue, then U face and the random colours.

Also qq thanks for making sim


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## Stefan (Oct 26, 2011)

Forte said:


> random colours


 
They're not random.


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## Forte (Oct 26, 2011)

Stefan said:


> They're not random.


 
and other colours ):


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## Jaycee (Oct 26, 2011)

Grrr. I am very close to solving this. A red edge piece is in cyan's spot, and the cyan is in that spot.

Basically all I have to do is swap the cyan edge and the UR edge on the U (red) face (Assuming there are 6 edges per face, called UL, L, DL, DR, R, and UR).


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## uhallgeo (Oct 26, 2011)

collinbxyz-

I can't tell you how much you've helped me! But, you guys are so F-A-S-T!!! I am having a hard time keeping up with you guys. (Real work keeps getting in the way.) 

I'll add the Ready-Set-Go and fix the end of puzzle bug with the timer. I've started the 'SOLVE' button. I think you guys are right.... hints would be better and maybe a "I can solve the puzzle in XX moves" line.

The way Triplex is coded, it would be easy to build a quad - pent - or bigger plex puzzle. In fact, linear, cross, hexaagon configurations are all rather easy. But, is it of value??? Should I convert Triplex to a stages puzzle? You know, starting with a turnstile two circle puzzle, then a three linear, then Triplex, etc.???

Either way.... slow down!!! You're pushing my two brain cells to the limit!

- george


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## Cubenovice (Oct 26, 2011)

Hi George.

Thank you for putting this fun little puzzel out there.

If it is worth it to make larger / more challenging versions? For sure.
Some people love this stuff. 
Have a look at gelatinbrain for inspiration 

http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/Applets/Magic Polyhedra/ranking.htm#3.1.1

Notice the frequent appearances of Mr Gottlieb aka *qqwref*


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## uhallgeo (Oct 26, 2011)

qqwref-

Thanks for the input!

From the beginning, I struggled with complaints about the control scheme. The current method is for the most part forced by FLASH as you indicated. However, I really like your suggestion of click-able areas for CW and CCW rotation. Just to check... are you suggesting something like:






I think I'll also put in the ability to select whatever control scheme is the user likes (keyboard, mouse, mouse wheel, or drag). I like the touch and drag method, but I can't put that in and still have clickable areas without getting false commands.

- george


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## collinbxyz (Oct 26, 2011)

Can't wait for the updates! I would definitely suggest doing all of this, then adding a more advanced version (Quadplex?). 

I just got my PB of about 1:10-1:15. I just used the timer on the website, so I'm not quite sure, but I thought it was sub 1:15

EDIT:
And got another sub 1:20

EDIT 2: Averaging about 1:45, which is pretty bad compared to stefan and I think qqwerf. Tips? I wanna make a video about this, but don't wanna suck at solving it.

EDIT 3: sub 55 single


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## Carrot (Oct 26, 2011)

How do you stop the timer after solving it?


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## RTh (Oct 26, 2011)

Same question as Odder. Solved it and the timer keeps running.


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## nitay6669 (Oct 26, 2011)

can someone calculate god's number on this thing?
i think it would be rather interesting...


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## nitay6669 (Oct 26, 2011)

can someone calculate god's number on this thing?
i think it would be rather interesting...


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## qqwref (Oct 26, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> However, I really like your suggestion of click-able areas for CW and CCW rotation. Just to check... are you suggesting something like:


The image didn't show up, but here's one way of doing it: http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/javascript/puzzlerj.htm. If you play with it carefully you can see that clicking on the left of a wheel will do a CCW rotation while clicking on the right will do a CW. You could also use arrow-shaped buttons outside the wheels.



uhallgeo said:


> I think I'll also put in the ability to select whatever control scheme is the user likes (keyboard, mouse, mouse wheel, or drag).


That sounds like it would work very well. That way the control schemes wouldn't get in each others' way.


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## Rpotts (Oct 26, 2011)

Odder said:


> How do you stop the timer after solving it?


 


RTh said:


> Same question as Odder. Solved it and the timer keeps running.


 
Stefan addressed this on page 1, it has to do with identical looking pieces being swapped. Like on a 4x4, if some of the centers are arbitrarily swapped differently than the original solved position, we'd still count it solved, ofc. This sim doesn't have that feature yet, idk about qqwref's adaptation.


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## Stefan (Oct 26, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Tips?



Sounds like you're building the top part inefficiently. I put a red edge at the left or right border, then build and insert three corner+edge pairs (always pushing the built part further in). And you can insert pairs two ways depending on orientation. Let's say you have a pair built in the middle and are inserting into U from the left, then do L' U or U' R U2.

Blue and green parts nothing special, but last few of those and particularly for cyan, think of building and inserting 3x3x3 F2L pairs. Helps to know this way of pairing up (the first four moves).


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## qqwref (Oct 26, 2011)

Rpotts said:


> idk about qqwref's adaptation.


Mine doesn't have this problem, since it just keeps track of (and checks) the colors of each piece. Basically the same thing I've done for all my sims. So the identical pieces really are identical.



Stefan said:


> But what's up with calling me Pochmann in conversation, did Dene make you do that?


Nope. Somehow it just feels more natural to me in this case...


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## Jaycee (Oct 26, 2011)

Solved it for the first time immediately after I got home from school. Took 4:57.xy.

Just solved it again, 2:58.xy

I spend the most time getting the cyan where it should go.

I use Stefan's second method.


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## jrb (Oct 26, 2011)

Does anyone have an algorithm for switching two of the center pieces(the cyan, purple, and yellow pieces)?

And BTW qq your sim is awesome.


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## collinbxyz (Oct 26, 2011)

Stefan said:


> Sounds like you're building the top part inefficiently. I put a red edge at the left or right border, then build and insert three corner+edge pairs (always pushing the built part further in). And you can insert pairs two ways depending on orientation. Let's say you have a pair built in the middle and are inserting into U from the left, then do L' U or U' R U2.


 
This is definitely my problem as the top part takes me about 45 seconds, more than half the entire solve. I am sort of confused about your explanation though. What I usually end up doing is getting the purple, yellow, and white all together, put it at the top, then insert red where it should go. 



Stefan said:


> Blue and green parts nothing special, but last few of those and particularly for cyan, think of building and inserting 3x3x3 F2L pairs. Helps to know this way of pairing up (the first four moves).


 
I think I am pretty good at this, and I have already been using this algorithm when needed. But thanks anyway.

EDIT: I've been averaging about 1:15 now.


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## uhallgeo (Oct 26, 2011)

Odder-

Sorry, its a bug. I'll fix it tonight.

- george


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## Stefan (Oct 27, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> I am sort of confused about your explanation though.


 
Have a look at my video:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?33104-Triplex&p=659814&viewfull=1#post659814

First solve I go from the right, first putting a red edge in, then yellow+yellow, then white+purple, then purple+red.




jrb said:


> Does anyone have an algorithm for switching two of the center pieces(the cyan, purple, and yellow pieces)?


 
As said already, you can't just swap two pieces. You can if you additionally swap two identical others, though (e.g. cyan-yellow and red-red). For corners, sexy*3 and sledgehammer*3 are double swaps, easy to use with simple setups. For edges, the *2 versions are 3-cycles, so maybe use two of those to build double swaps.

But really, a method where you don't even have to do this at all is probably better.

Btw, Michael, I give up. You're better anyway, and now that you're using your own controls, I have no chance. Awesome times so quickly!


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## qqwref (Oct 27, 2011)

Yeah, it gets kind of lopsided when hi-games controls start to get involved  I have a lot of practice with those.

I switched to a method where I build the middle colors on the L/F face first, and then do the blockbuilding with 2gen:
10.296 single = 58 @ 5.63
12.844 (11.806) 13.201 (14.448) 12.5 => 12.848
13.993 14.279 (16.465) (11.641) 14.167 14.76 12.844 11.806 13.201 14.448 12.5 16.335 => 13.833


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## ben1996123 (Oct 27, 2011)

First solve with qq's sim - 2:31.383

I found with qq's sim that if you do a T perm (ijkfkhiifkfijkg) or a Y perm (hifkfijkgijkfkhig) you can actually get some quite useful results.

Edit: 5th attempt, second solve - 34.88. Just got lucky, easy case for red.

Here's my "method":

Solve blue
Solve green
Solve cyan
do random stuff until the rest is solved.

Edit2:



qqwref said:


> Yeah, it gets kind of lopsided when hi-games controls start to get involved  I have a lot of practice with those.
> 
> I switched to a method where I build the middle colors on the L/F face first, and then do the blockbuilding with 2gen:
> *10.296 single = 58 @ 5.63*
> ...



wtf 58 turns, my solves usually take 900+ -.-


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## uhallgeo (Oct 27, 2011)

Everyone....

I played with the code last night. I moved the program to a more commercial format. Hopefully, I got the 'Timer won't Stop' bug fixed. But, since it takes me forever to solve Triplex I didn't do a 100% V&V on that bug.

I also modified the 'circle select' function. I don't think this will affect anyone who runs the Triplex animation at full speed. The puzzle will NOW ignore you if you attempt to select a different circle while it is moving a circle. If this causes anyone a problem, please let me know. I don't cue events (that's a pain) but, if I have to.....

Moving the puzzle to the commercial format may inject other bugs. If anyone finds one, please let me know. 

I promise to work on the leader board this weekend. I have the tools in place, but never have actually done one, so please be patient. Besides the Eagles are playing the Cowboys this weekend and .... well... we all have our priorities!

- george


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## Nostra (Oct 27, 2011)

The timer still won't stop for me


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## uhallgeo (Oct 27, 2011)

Nostra said:


> The timer still won't stop for me


 
Nostra-

Aaaarrrrgggghhhh! 

Are you using the latest version? (You have to hit 'play' to get to the puzzle).

Do you get the lightning???

When I checked the fix, I didn't 'Actually' solve the puzzle. I just undo all the 'mix up' moves, so I do get the solution that is perfect. Some bone, somewhere is switched with an identical colored bone in your solution, and I'm not considering that a solution. 

Aaaaarrrrgggghhh! Someone on this board was astute enough to mention that earlier, and I ignored it! 

I'll fix it!

- george


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## Stefan (Oct 27, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I switched to a method where I build the middle colors on the L/F face first, and then do the blockbuilding with 2gen



Not enough details to understand it... video? Would be nice anyway.



ben1996123 said:


> wtf 58 turns, my solves usually take 900+ -.-


 
wtf 900+ turns. I think I take about 50-80 depending on luck and how many mistakes I make. You're joking, right? Even with the worst method you can't possibly take that many moves.

Solved again, timer doesn't stop and no lightning. And after clicking "Mix" I usually move the mouse onto the puzzle already (not waiting for the mixing to finish), and then to start I have to move it again to have a disk selected and be able to make a turn with the arrow keys.


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## Litz (Oct 27, 2011)

Stefan said:


> wtf 900+ turns. I think I take about 50-80 depending on luck and how many mistakes I make. You're joking, right? Even with the worst method you can't possibly take that many moves.


Considering the last step of his method is doing random stuff until it's solved, you never know..


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## ben1996123 (Oct 27, 2011)

20.109 single, lucky. After I solved blue green and cyan, magenta and yellow were already solved and I just had to solve the white center.



Stefan said:


> wtf 900+ turns. I think I take about 50-80 depending on luck and how many mistakes I make. You're joking, right? Even with the worst method you can't possibly take that many moves.



Well, 900+ when I didn't really have a method and just guessed. Now it takes me about 300. Just done a solve, 56.073, 287 moves = 5.12 tps. If I get a lucky solve, it usually takes about 140ish. 26.301, 132 moves = 5.02 tps.

Edit:

14.32 single, lolscramble. After the scramble, green was already solved. 100 turns = 6.98 tps.


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## ben1996123 (Oct 27, 2011)

Edit: 11.129. LL was just R U R' U' R' F R F'. 48 turns = 4.31 tps


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## qqwref (Oct 27, 2011)

Haha, your method looks hilariously inconsistent, but I bet you can get some good times on it with luck nevertheless.

PS: I recorded a 15.0xx avg5, but my roommate was talking in Cantonese (lol) during most of it. So I'll probably take another better video later.


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## Nostra (Oct 27, 2011)

Stefan said:


> wtf 900+ turns. I think I take about 50-80 depending on luck and how many mistakes I make.



50 - 80! oO I take about 30-40 moves (not counting mistakes)!


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## qqwref (Oct 27, 2011)

Nostra said:


> 50 - 80! oO I take about 30-40 moves (not counting mistakes)!


In half turn metric or quarter turn metric? If it's quarter turn metric (same as used in my program) I'm impressed - please make a video.


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## Nostra (Oct 27, 2011)

In HTM, actually, I mean each time I turn a wheel, I count one more move. So if stefan number was in QTM, I guess it's quite the same than me.
I didn't try your program, I gonna do this now

EDIT : I tried on your program. I made a lot of mistake as I'm not used to your control, I got 70 moves, so I guess without mistakes, it should have been 50


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## collinbxyz (Oct 27, 2011)

I think that we could do the method that ben was using, by getting the blue+green+cyan, then doing PLL algorithms (from 3x3). Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume that you could use all the PLL algorithms after you find the cases for each alg. If there are too many cases (I don't think there would be with so much red), then you could do 2 look. I'm gonna experiment with PLL algorithms now...

EDIT: OLL algorithms might work too


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## vcuber13 (Oct 27, 2011)

theres no orientation...


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## collinbxyz (Oct 27, 2011)

vcuber13 said:


> theres no orientation...


 
Yes, I know, but I'm saying the OLL algorithms for the 3x3 could be used to permute the top layer, since they don't affect the left and right layers.


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## vcuber13 (Oct 27, 2011)

really? speedy olls move peices around? hmmm.


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## Rpotts (Oct 27, 2011)

yes, just think of the Red as the U face, the Green is R and the blue is F. 
Do a J perm, you'll see. 

same with things like sexy sledge and F sexy F'


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## rubixwiz031 (Oct 27, 2011)

I am so bad at this. I spent like 10 mins on it and gave up.


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## qqwref (Oct 27, 2011)

Here's a video:


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## cuBerBruce (Oct 27, 2011)

qqwref said:


> In half turn metric or quarter turn metric? If it's quarter turn metric (same as used in my program) I'm impressed - please make a video.


 
I think you mean sixth-turn metric vs. wheel turn metric.


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## Stefan (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks for the video. Congrats for the sub10, and nice to see we're pretty much solving the same way (except whole puzzle orientation and your 2-gen vs my randomness). Had been wondering whether you also solve the first part as edge plus three pairs. But do you always go cyan->white->pink, or sometimes the other direction, pink->white->cyan?


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## bamilan (Oct 27, 2011)

I am sub-20 now. First I solve all blue, then all green, then cyan, after that I pair up pink, put white next to pink block, then send yellow corner next to white corner, and in the end solve the yellow edge using this: R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R' or the backward one. (permutes 3 edges on top layer)
Normally it takes 40-60 moves.


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## collinbxyz (Oct 27, 2011)

I just did Blue+Green+Cyan, then did random moves without disturbing blue/green/cyan, and solved in like 55 seconds.


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## uhallgeo (Oct 28, 2011)

Nostra-

I looked at my code to determine whether the puzzle is solved (ie, turn off the timer). I found something interesting. There are LOTS of Triplex solutions!!

My check compared the users current puzzle with the original, pristine order. If you consider the color wheel the solution, there are at least six permutations per circle that will look like the color wheel, but vary from the pristine order. I think I fixed the problem.

However, I suck at solving Triplex. Can you please post back as to whether this bug is squashed? Thanks!

On a side note. Since you guys like a challenge, I think Triplex would be a tougher puzzle if the required solution was unique. What do you think?? I could put an option that would 'skin' the wheels with unique bones and stones (keeping the base colors), thus requiring the solver to find the one solution, not one of many.

- george


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## qqwref (Oct 28, 2011)

Stefan said:


> Thanks for the video. Congrats for the sub10, and nice to see we're pretty much solving the same way (except whole puzzle orientation and your 2-gen vs my randomness). Had been wondering whether you also solve the first part as edge plus three pairs. But do you always go cyan->white->pink, or sometimes the other direction, pink->white->cyan?


Yeah, edge + pairs seemed the most natural way to build from the beginning. I always do the first block in the same way because I'm worried I'll make a mistake if I don't (and I do NOT want to have to fix it later!).


george: The timer now stops properly now, good job fixing it 



uhallgeo said:


> On a side note. Since you guys like a challenge, I think Triplex would be a tougher puzzle if the required solution was unique. What do you think?? I could put an option that would 'skin' the wheels with unique bones and stones (keeping the base colors), thus requiring the solver to find the one solution, not one of many.


That would definitely be an interesting addition, but keep in mind that the current solution isn't really "one of many" if you allow for the idea of identical pieces. From my point of view the puzzle right now has exactly one solution, and the distinction between the identical pieces only exists inside the code


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## mrCage (Oct 28, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I got a 1:08.64 solve using a rough blockbuilding method. I kinda feel like making my own version of this just to try it with proper higames controls...
> 
> EDIT: 49.68 lolol


 
I suck at computer solving (gelatinbrain for instance). But this puzzle is very easy to solve with 4-turn 3-cycle commutators. Most puzzles are solvable with commutators ...
Actually only the last few pieces need commutators. The rest is block building ...

Per


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## mrCage (Oct 28, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Anyway, I made my own speedsolving version (http://mzrg.com/js/triplex.html).
> 11.396 single (54 moves)
> 13.694 (17.553) (11.396) 16.086 12.022 => 13.934
> 17.38 (24.515) 13.694 17.553 (11.396) 16.086 12.022 20.036 18.52 12.65 19.83 16.94 => 16.471



Hmm. I cannot load that in IE or Chrome. Weird!!

Per


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## scottishcuber (Oct 28, 2011)

^^Same here, all i get is the picture saying 'goal'.


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## mrCage (Oct 28, 2011)

Does anyone here have a short way to swap 2 colors, say red and blue. Note that this would also involved swapping colors in the overlap color segments. (light blue and yellow also needs to be swapped in my example!!)

Per


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## collinbxyz (Oct 28, 2011)

Yes, the timer works pretty well now, but a bug is that even after you scramble to puzzle after you've solved it, the new time just adds on to the old time. Same with the reset button. It solves the puzzle to the original state, but keeps the original, unnecessary, time.


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## collinbxyz (Oct 29, 2011)

Any tips now? I know I have trouble with blockbuilding the second blue/green (whichever I do second). And that I could do a lot better with control and the top part. Oh, and I'm using only the arrow keys.


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## collinbxyz (Oct 30, 2011)

Sorry for the double post, but I found a bug:

When the time is turning from 00:00:59.xx to 00:01:00.xx, it becomes 1:59.xx instead of 1:00.xx. This changes after a second, and goes to 1:02.xx or whatever, but if you solve it at what should be 1:00.xx, it shows up as 1:59.xx.


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## uhallgeo (Oct 31, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Sorry for the double post, but I found a bug:
> 
> When the time is turning from 00:00:59.xx to 00:01:00.xx, it becomes 1:59.xx instead of 1:00.xx. This changes after a second, and goes to 1:02.xx or whatever, but if you solve it at what should be 1:00.xx, it shows up as 1:59.xx.



collinbxyz-

Excellent get! I found the bug and squished it.

Thanks!!

- george


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## AustinReed (Oct 31, 2011)

Just solved it for the first time intuitively. Fun!


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## collinbxyz (Nov 12, 2011)

Sorry for the bump, but 27.83 pb single 

Are you going to add anything else to this btw? Like a "quadplex" or something?


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## uhallgeo (Nov 14, 2011)

collinbxyz-

Yes. I just added the LeaderBoard. 

I'm sorry I dropped off line for a bit. I spent the time putting the leaderboard in the game.

What a royal pain in the arse! I'm not a web programmer, and I couldn't believe how many different disciplines it took to put a stupid leaderboard in the game. 
Anyway, it's probably got bugs. If you wouldn't mind solving the thing and see if it works, I would be appreciative. Please let me know if (yeah, right) WHAT bugs you find.

Thanks!!

- george


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## uhallgeo (Nov 14, 2011)

*Triplex Leader Board*

Everyone-

I added a leader board to Triplex.

For those of you unfamiliar with Triplex, it's a simple rubik-like 2D puzzle. It may be Trio (I've never seen Trio, but it looks like Triplex from what I've seen.) I posted in this forum a couple of weeks ago asking for help solving it. It took you guys four hours from my post to solve it, less than a day to post a youTube video on how to solve it.

I made a boast that I would put a Leader board in Triplex. I thought it would take me a weekend.... it took me three weeks. It was a real pain! This effort is my first server-client web app. And, well, I fumbled around a lot.

Anyway, the Leader Board is up. Since this is my first go with this kind of thing, I'm asking for any critiques or bug reports. Normally, I'd do this myself, but I still can't solve Triplex any faster than 20 MINUTES. 

I had to put a little bit of 'fluff' in the program. I DO intend to put much much more (I have a cool original song the Ant can dance to on the reward screen.) But, I will table that to put up a Quadplex first.

OK... to find Triplex, it's at www.kidpaint.net Triplex is the only thing on the site, but you do have to get an account to post a time with your username. Otherwise, you get assigned a guestXXX name.

I want to thank you guys in advance for helping me with Triplex.... thanks!

- george


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## emolover (Nov 14, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> Quadplex


 
That will be awesome!

If this is not too much of a pain in the ass, you should master a maste version of these!


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## uhallgeo (Nov 14, 2011)

emolover-

Please excuse my ignorance... what's a maste version??

- george


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## collinbxyz (Nov 14, 2011)

Awesome job! Can't wait for "Quadplex". I'll see what I can rank now...


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## emolover (Nov 14, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> emolover-
> 
> Please excuse my ignorance... what's a maste version??
> 
> - george


 
On cubes it is a 4x4.

So on triplex it would be a triplex with another layer, not a Quadplex.


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## JonnyWhoopes (Nov 14, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> emolover-
> 
> Please excuse my ignorance... what's a maste version??
> 
> - george


 
I think he meant to say "make a master version"

In the cubing world, a "master" version is usually one order higher than the most common order. So a 4x4x4 is a "Master Rubik's Cube"


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## uhallgeo (Nov 14, 2011)

*Quadplex*

Emolover-

I think most people solve Triplex by arranging the top circle's middle stones then rotating them out of the way, then arranging the bottom two circle's stones. But, if I add a fourth circle (two rows of two intersecting circles) I am not sure that technique is possible.

The way I wrote Triplex, I can actually throw together N circles pretty easy. The only problem is adding a 'fast' enough user interface. Among this community, I sense people use the keyboard. So, I might have to finally add something behind that 'Options' button to let each player pick his key set, and that will take me saving cookies. I've never programmed cookies before. Man, I hope it's not as bad as the client/server stuff.

This is what I am going for with Quadplex . . .


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## qqwref (Nov 14, 2011)

Oh, nice, leaderboards.

Just now the network was down and the program was doing some weird stuff. I'd finish a solve, and get the lightning, but no certificate would display; then halfway through the next solve it would suddenly display with the timer still running.


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## collinbxyz (Nov 15, 2011)

Sorta off topic from what you just said, but how do you solve qqwred? Like arrow keys, click/shift-click, etc. I feel like using arrow keys for everything is really hard, and I mess up a ton with it. Anyway, great improvement so far, so when can we expect quadplex (assuming you're planning it)?


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## Jaycee (Nov 15, 2011)

^ I think QQ has a sim for it.  He may or may not use it often >__>


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## collinbxyz (Nov 15, 2011)

Jaycee said:


> ^ I think QQ has a sim for it.  He may or may not use it often >__>


 
I know that, but on the leaderboards, it says that qqwref has top 10 solves, not on his sim.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 15, 2011)

collinbxyz-

I'm working on Quadplex. But, I've got some bugs with the leader board. Now, I'm torn. Fix or build. The code and methodology behind the leader board is new to me, so it will take me some time to find the bug.

I'm leaning toward build. I may have to get some help with the bug.

- george


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## uhallgeo (Nov 15, 2011)

qqwref-

You ARE AWESOME!! Can I ask how you're doing it??? Are you loading the database?? Please tell me about the 8 second solve..... real or hacked? Either way, I bow to your AWESOME-ness!

BTW. You've hit one bug that I didn't anticipate. If the certificate doesn't come in time, you can start another solution before it is delivered to you. So, in the middle of your next game you get a certificate for the last game! I NEVER anticipated someone beating the network and stacking up solves!!

- george


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## Stefan (Nov 15, 2011)

Lol, so qqwref is officially too fast?


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## qqwref (Nov 15, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Sorta off topic from what you just said, but how do you solve qqwred? Like arrow keys, click/shift-click, etc. I feel like using arrow keys for everything is really hard, and I mess up a ton with it.


I used mousehover + left/right, but now that Triplex has hi-games controls, I've been using those.



uhallgeo said:


> You ARE AWESOME!! Can I ask how you're doing it??? Are you loading the database?? Please tell me about the 8 second solve..... real or hacked? Either way, I bow to your AWESOME-ness!


Haha. Legit - your scrambler just gives slightly easier scrambles than mine (which does 300 moves). I just got a 7.80, too o_0



uhallgeo said:


> BTW. You've hit one bug that I didn't anticipate. If the certificate doesn't come in time, you can start another solution before it is delivered to you. So, in the middle of your next game you get a certificate for the last game! I NEVER anticipated someone beating the network and stacking up solves!!


To be fair, after doing a lot of solves in a row the network seems to get a bit slower, and sometimes takes 5-10+ seconds to load. At least I haven't "lapped" it and finished two solves before it gave me the first certificate


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 15, 2011)

A suggestion:

What really works better in my opinion for a leaderboard is to show the top ten (or however many) people, and for each person, their best single time. I'm sure qqwref loves being able to fill up the board, but it makes it pretty meaningless for the rest of us - we'd have to practice ages to get to be as good as he is, with all his experience on computer puzzles already. As is, I don't see any reason to get an account and login, since I know the only way I can be on the daily board is if qq hasn't played yet. I know that probably isn't as interesting a change for you (and probably not nearly as interesting as doing Quadplex), but I do think it would be helpful.

I'm so bad at computer puzzles. My best single so far: 23 seconds. I probably average around 40.


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## qqwref (Nov 15, 2011)

Mike Hughey said:


> What really works better in my opinion for a leaderboard is to show the top ten (or however many) people, and for each person, their best single time.


Definitely. It's kind of silly for the best person to be able to (almost?) fill up the leaderboard just by playing a lot.

And here's what I had in mind for Quadplex...
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/qqwref/quadplex2.png
(Warning: This will be significantly harder to solve than any pattern of Triplex-type circles.)


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## uhallgeo (Nov 15, 2011)

Mike-

I agree with you! I'll try to make the change tonight.

- george


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## uhallgeo (Nov 15, 2011)

qqwref-

I like your Quadplex much better. My version can be solved just like Triplex. Your version presents a different problem. 

Thanks!!

- george


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## collinbxyz (Nov 15, 2011)

Just another bug: When using keyboard controls, it doesn't show the move count at all... 

Also, I really wish you could make your own keyboard controls. I know it's mostly that I've never really used hi-games controls (Other than attempting and failing for a little bit on the 3x3 and 2x2), I have an idea for my own keyboard controls, but I doubt many other people would use it. It would be:
F = Left Cw; D = Left CCw; J = Right CCw; K = Right CW; E = Up CCw; I = Up Cw.
If you look at these keys on your keyboard, the j and k are to the right (hence moving the right side) And the j is to the left of the k, in the direction of the right side moving to the left or ccw. k would be the same idea, since it's to the right, visually clock-wise seems to go the right. The i and e seem to be right near j/k and f/d, so it's above them (U layer) and the i is moving to the right/cw and e is going left/ccw. 

Hopefully that made sense. Just my little idea of keyboard controls. As for which to do first, Uhallgeo, I say quadplex, as it will add more challenge and more fun for all of us. If the bug is what QQ said about the certificate not coming up, than I am pretty sure that only applies to qq, as he's the only one who can be fast enough to actually get that bug. But that's just me.

EDIT: I have another idea, btw. I think that the "Top Ten" leaderboards should be the people with the tops 10 times. Like WCA, for example, they don't put 5 feliks solves in their "leaderboards" they put the person with the best time, with his best time for first place. Then the second place person in second place, with his best time, even if it's slower than a few of the #1's top times. 

Also, I was thinking about starting some threads for the forums. Here are my ideas. The one I think you should start, since you're admin:

1) "Accomplishment Thread" Like the one here on Speedsolving for accomplishments on the triplex, quadplex, or other puzzles you make. 
2) "Bug Fixes Thread" I don't have a good name for it, but I think you should create this for sure, since you're admin. They post bugs they find.
3) "General Puzzle Discussion" A thread for puzzle ideas in general, or other suggestions. 

There are probably a lot more, these are just the big ones that popped in my head. I'd be happy to make some of these, btw.
Also, with the creation of the forums, you will probably need moderators. qqwref and Stefan would be pretty good, assuming they'd want to do it, of course. And I would love to help with that as well, if you need it. 

Anything I didn't cover?


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## qqwref (Nov 16, 2011)

Some new times on my version:
*7.957* single = 41 @ 5.15
12.424 (14.161) 12.388 10.258 (8.925) => *11.69 *avg5
13.827 11.128 (9.232) 11.768 12.588 14.671 14.089 12.142 11.684 11.624 (15.06) 10.063 => *12.358* avg12 



collinbxyz said:


> Just another bug: When using keyboard controls, it doesn't show the move count at all...


Aha, good point. I noticed my movecount wasn't recording properly, but I didn't realize it was because of the keyboard controls.



collinbxyz said:


> If the bug is what QQ said about the certificate not coming up, than I am pretty sure that only applies to qq, as he's the only one who can be fast enough to actually get that bug. But that's just me.


All you have to do is start a new solve before the certificate pops up... and if it takes 5-10+ seconds it doesn't require any special ability to do.



collinbxyz said:


> Also, I was thinking about starting some threads for the forums. Here are my ideas. The one I think you should start, since you're admin:
> 1) "Accomplishment Thread" Like the one here on Speedsolving for accomplishments on the triplex, quadplex, or other puzzles you make.
> 2) "Bug Fixes Thread" I don't have a good name for it, but I think you should create this for sure, since you're admin. They post bugs they find.
> 3) "General Puzzle Discussion" A thread for puzzle ideas in general, or other suggestions.


These look generally good, although "Bug Fixes" should be an entire subforum, so that individual bugs can be listed in individual topics and then locked when they are solved.



collinbxyz said:


> Also, with the creation of the forums, you will probably need moderators. qqwref and Stefan would be pretty good, assuming they'd want to do it, of course. And I would love to help with that as well, if you need it.


No thanks - I'm mostly interested in this because of the novelty of a new puzzle/thing to improve at, and I don't think I'd want to have a commitment to it in the long term.


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## emolover (Nov 16, 2011)

Those quadplexes look nice! I hope to see those come into action soon.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 16, 2011)

Mike Hughey said:


> A suggestion:
> 
> What really works better in my opinion for a leaderboard is to show the top ten (or however many) people, and for each person, their best single time. 40.



Mike-

I've made the change you suggested. Now a player will only appear once on a leader board. His best time will be shown. Is that OK?

- george


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## uhallgeo (Nov 16, 2011)

qqwref-

I looked at your Quadplex last night. It's different enough that I'll have to change some underneath code. So, I hope you don't mind... I'm going to finish my version first. I think I can get my version up before the weekend. (We'll see.)

Second thing, in your version, there are only four positions for each wheel (as opposed to 6 in my version). I'm wondering if more permutations means a tougher puzzle? I guess I'll have to build both to find out!

- george


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## uhallgeo (Nov 16, 2011)

All-

I put in a fix into the leaderboard. I had a bug that would sometimes cause the red "NETWORK ERROR" sign to come up. (I was violating my 'sandbox'.... whatever that means.) 

Anyway, if anyone sees the red "NETWORK ERROR" sign, could you please post and let me know??

Thanks!!

- george


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## Rpotts (Nov 16, 2011)

Unrelated to the Leaderboard - 

Using the keys to make turns doesn't increase the move count, but using the buttons and mouse clicks does.

I'm using Google Chrome.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 16, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Just another bug: When using keyboard controls, it doesn't show the move count at all...



OK... Now that makes sense! I don't use the keyboard controls, so I never tested it completely. I was seeing 0 moves in some of the saved solves and was wondering about that. I'll get on that bug right away!!



collinbxyz said:


> Also, I really wish you could make your own keyboard controls.



I'm working that issue. It's just something I've never done before... saving cookies so the program can reconfigure itself to the machine it plays on. It's not hard, just one more technique to learn.



collinbxyz said:


> As for which to do first, Uhallgeo, I say quadplex, as it will add more challenge and more fun for all of us.



I hope to have Quadplex online before the weekend..... stay tuned.

- george


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## benskoning (Nov 16, 2011)

WOO HOO Quadplex


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## qqwref (Nov 16, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> I looked at your Quadplex last night. It's different enough that I'll have to change some underneath code. So, I hope you don't mind... I'm going to finish my version first. I think I can get my version up before the weekend. (We'll see.)


Go ahead. Your version looks interesting too, and I'd like to try it.



uhallgeo said:


> Second thing, in your version, there are only four positions for each wheel (as opposed to 6 in my version). I'm wondering if more permutations means a tougher puzzle? I guess I'll have to build both to find out!


Well, in general, if you have more freedom the puzzle is easier. So for instance a puzzle with only 6 possible moves that interact in complicated ways will be very tough, whereas a puzzle with 100 possible moves that each affect a very small part of the puzzle would be pretty easy. The number of positions on each wheel shouldn't matter much; what's more important is how many pieces are affected by each move, and how hard it is to move only a few pieces without affecting the others. In the case of my Quadplex, it will be pretty tough to move the small pieces around independently. I think your Quadplex may even be slightly easier than the Triplex, since each move affects a smaller part of the puzzle, so it's easier to move pieces around.


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## ben1996123 (Nov 16, 2011)

Yay quadplex. Can you also make it so it "mixes it up" when the spacebar is pressed?


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## collinbxyz (Nov 16, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> I'm working that issue. It's just something I've never done before... saving cookies so the program can reconfigure itself to the machine it plays on. It's not hard, just one more technique to learn.



It seems like this project is a huge learning experience for you! 



uhallgeo said:


> I hope to have Quadplex online before the weekend..... stay tuned.
> 
> - george


 
Wow, I didn't expect it that soon! Awesome, and thanks.



ben1996123 said:


> Yay quadplex. Can you also make it so it "mixes it up" when the spacebar is pressed?


 
+1 to this. It just makes it so much easier, especially when you are using keyboard controls, since you don't have to switch over to the mouse.

Another suggestion is about the timer. I think that you should make inspection *UP TO* 15 seconds long, and you press the spacebar to mix up, then again to start the timer. If you go 15 seconds or longer, it counts as a DNF (Did Not Finish). Also, another thing you could add is a session and overall history. It would calculate the averages of 5, 12 for the session. 

These are just long-term ideas that I'm brainstorming, of course.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 17, 2011)

*Comparing Uhall Quadplex with qqwref Quadplex*



qqwref said:


> what's more important is how many pieces are affected by each move, and how hard it is to move only a few pieces without affecting the others.



qqwref-

Interesting.... I hadn't thought of it that way. It will be fun to check your hypothesis and compare the two different Quad's. I'm about 80 percent done with mine and still on track to putting it up by this weekend.

- george


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## ben1996123 (Nov 17, 2011)

Yay I'm 2nd on the leader board now. Now I just have to (almost) half my time to get 1st :/


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## uhallgeo (Nov 17, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> Yay I'm 2nd on the leader board now. Now I just have to (almost) half my time to get 1st :/



Ben1996123-

Congratulations!!! 

I have a question concerning 'game etiquette' and Triplex. Would it be a violation of trust to send email notices to those you have usurped on the board? Assuming they had previously agreed to be notified?

I guess I'm asking whether or not I should bother to put in an automatic emailing feature that fires off notices of board position changes and what you think of that. After all, what good is getting second place if you can't rub it in third places face?

- george


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## qqwref (Nov 18, 2011)

It wouldn't be wrong to send emails when someone beats you on the high score board, but only do it if people have already agreed to those emails. (The default should be to not be emailed.)

PS: At least one of the Guests was me, accidentally not logged in. I'm pretty sure the 3rd place (14.07) was me.


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## qqwref (Nov 18, 2011)

I had some extra time today, so I decided to write up my own copies of the Quadplex puzzles...

The easy one: http://mzrg.com/js/quadplex-u.html
16.253 single = 80 @ 4.92
(16.253) 22.509 (26.152) 25.76 23.397 => 23.889
(16.253) 22.509 26.152 25.76 23.397 24.642 29.854 27.489 30.233 24.728 (31.538) 23.538 => 25.83

The hard one: http://mzrg.com/js/quadplex-q.html
3:51.734 single = 578 @ 2.49
(5:20.604) 4:18.884 4:10.786 4:56.759 (3:51.734) => 4:28.81

My method for the hard one isn't all that great, so I wouldn't be too surprised if someone (Stefan?) beats it.


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## emolover (Nov 18, 2011)

The hard one looks scary in comparison to the easy one.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 19, 2011)

Everyone-

I put my Quadplex up on KidPaint.net I didn't quite get make it up 'before' the weekend and I rushed it a bit so it probably has bugs. I would appreciated it if you guys let me know of any short comings.

Thanks!

- george


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## uhallgeo (Nov 19, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I had some extra time today, so I decided to write up my own copies of the Quadplex puzzles...



qqwref-

MAN, you're fast!! Both in solving and coding. Excellent work!

- george


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## Meep (Nov 19, 2011)

Sorry qq ):


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## Litz (Nov 19, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> I put my Quadplex up on KidPaint.net I didn't quite get make it up 'before' the weekend and I rushed it a bit so it probably has bugs. I would appreciated it if you guys let me know of any short comings.


I only solved it once (I don't really like simulators so it took me long enough since I kept destroying it) and it worked perfectly. There was no thunder animation at the end and the menu was different from the time I solved the triplex but that's all I noticed.

Great puzzles.


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## ben1996123 (Nov 19, 2011)

First solve on qq's easy sim - 5:38.269


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## Stefan (Nov 19, 2011)

Holding the mouse over the right or upper wheel, the arrow keys move the other wheel.


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## ben1996123 (Nov 19, 2011)

I need to figure out how to do the LL... I'm at 25 minutes in to my 2nd solve, and I can't do the LL. I'm just gonna scramble it and resolve until I get lucky 

Edit:

hao2sorve







Edit2: Yay solved. for the case above, do (T perm U2)2

30:46.888
5607 @ 3.04

lol


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## vcuber13 (Nov 19, 2011)

i got this:





then the timer didnt stop...

edit:
just got a 1:33 (timer stopped), but about half the time the timer doesnt stop.


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## emolover (Nov 19, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just get it to this. 






Its the way you would do the normal triplex. At that point I am sure you can get it from there.


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## collinbxyz (Nov 19, 2011)

I solved it for the first time, but the timer didn't stop. It was about 4 minutes. Pretty intuitive, but it was very fun!


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## qqwref (Nov 19, 2011)

6.50? What the hell, Meep :O

I got a 17.70 on Quadplex, not bad but better is possible.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 19, 2011)

Stefan said:


> Holding the mouse over the right or upper wheel, the arrow keys move the other wheel.


 
Stefan-

Another great catch! I'll fix it.

While you're here.....I have a couple of thoughts.

Should I put a mail function into these 'Plex programs? You know, so the player can mail off bragging rights? or automatically be notified if someone beats their time? Did you know Meep slaughtered QQWREF's best time???

I've been looking at the Triplex database. Should I be keeping track of aborted or reset games? Since I now have local machine storage, I can maintain a complete users history on his machine for him/her and chart it for them locally.

- george


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## Jaycee (Nov 19, 2011)

I'll make an attempt to solve Quadplex once keyboard arrow controls work.  Looks really awesome! :tu


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## collinbxyz (Nov 19, 2011)

I think you should really fix the quadplex timer not stopping when solved. But I solved twice so far. I am confused about the very last step, switching two corners to solve.

But great job so far! Just an off-topic note: You live in Maryland? I live in South-East Pennsylvania 
I think you should attempt to learn the 3x3 Rubik's Cube, as you are doing all of this! If you don't own one, you can buy a cube for like $5 at some places. (The better ones are around $10-$15).

EDIT: Oh yes, I found a _bug_. Although I think you did it on purpose, it'd be so much better if you made the times in the leaderboards in hours/minutes/seconds/hundredths-of-a-second, not just seconds/hundredths-of-a-second.

EDIT 2: yaay! It finished as solved, and I got a sub-3 single making me 4th on leaderboards.


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## collinbxyz (Nov 19, 2011)

Sorry for the double post, but I sorta want Uhallgeo to see this.

I created an accomplishment thread on the forms there, but I put it in the "welcome mat" section without realizing it until now. Is there a way to move that? But i think you should create some other section for it, since it doesn't fit into "Suggestion Box" category either. Thanks.


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## Jaycee (Nov 19, 2011)

I solved Quadplex! :O

9:33.17..... Lol.


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## Stefan (Nov 19, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> While you're here.....I have a couple of thoughts.
> 
> Should I put a mail function into these 'Plex programs? You know, so the player can mail off bragging rights? or automatically be notified if someone beats their time? Did you know Meep slaughtered QQWREF's best time???
> 
> I've been looking at the Triplex database. Should I be keeping track of aborted or reset games? Since I now have local machine storage, I can maintain a complete users history on his machine for him/her and chart it for them locally.


 
I'm even too lazy to create an account and log in, so I'm probably the wrong guy to ask this 

I did notice Meep's record, I went looking when he hinted at it.


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## Jaycee (Nov 19, 2011)

WTF Next solve?!?!? 3:45.30 O_O

EDIT : @ Quadplex


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## zmikecuber (Nov 19, 2011)

I got triplex on first try in 2:16.... though I think I was lucky... now I just have to try quadplex


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## qqwref (Nov 19, 2011)

I might have to write a few more of these... get ready for PENTRIFIED, HEXOTIC, and SEPTACULAR


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## emolover (Nov 19, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I might have to write a few more of these... get ready for PENTRIFIED, HEXOTIC, and SEPTACULAR


 
Go for it! If possible see if you can make bigcube versions of them.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 19, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> I solved it for the first time, but the timer didn't stop. It was about 4 minutes. Pretty intuitive, but it was very fun!


 
Collinbxyz-

My worst nightmare! The 'puzzle is solved' routine doesn't work 100 percent. Since, I can't solve Quadplex in a timely manner, I had to simulate a solve. Obviously, my sim sucks! 

I have an alternate plan. I'll get it in before the night is out.

- george


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## uhallgeo (Nov 19, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I might have to write a few more of these... get ready for PENTRIFIED, HEXOTIC, and SEPTACULAR


qqwref-

That's my thought exactly! Mind if I steal the names???

BTW what may I call your version of Quadplex? And, I haven't asked yet, so here it is...."Can I code up your version and put in on Kidpaint????"

- george


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## qqwref (Nov 19, 2011)

Bigcube versions wouldn't be too hard to create, the problem is thinking of a control scheme...

I drew out some 5- and 7-wheeled puzzles, and I'm beginning to think it's actually impossible to include all the possible cuts, because there will be infinitely many of them. I think sticking with even numbers (except 3) will be required.

EDIT: Feel free to use my names and puzzle. And I think "Quadplex II" would be good, if you don't have any other ideas.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 19, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> You live in Maryland?



Yes, I'm live in St. Mary's county... squirrel heaven.



collinbxyz said:


> I think you should attempt to learn the 3x3 Rubik's Cube, as you are doing all of this!



I solved the 3x3 Rubik when it first came out. It took me a month. Shortly after I solved it, solutions were printed (pre-web days) and distributed. Once I compared my solution to others, I realized how deficient my grey matter is in these pursuits. I still have my cube, it's in the attic along with my slide rule.



collinbxyz said:


> EDIT: Oh yes, I found a _bug_. Although I think you did it on purpose, it'd be so much better if you made the times in the leaderboards in hours/minutes/seconds/hundredths-of-a-second, not just seconds/hundredths-of-a-second.



You're very astute! The base frame rate of the Flash programs is 30 fps. I foolishly chose this rate. It never dawned on me that you guys would be fighting over hundredths of a second! Having chosen 30fps, the granularity of the time keeper is 0.03333 seconds.

I suppose I'll have to change that for the next level of these xPlex programs.

-george


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## collinbxyz (Nov 19, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> Yes, I'm live in St. Mary's county... squirrel heaven.


 
You live 4 and a half hours a way, driving. Still pretty close compared to most people.  I'm in the suburbs of Philadelphia. 




uhallgeo said:


> I solved the 3x3 Rubik when it first came out. It took me a month. Shortly after I solved it, solutions were printed (pre-web days) and distributed. Once I compared my solution to others, I realized how deficient my grey matter is in these pursuits. I still have my cube, it's in the attic along with my slide rule.



Then I think you should learn a again, and try to get under one minute, at least. That wouldn't take that long at all!



uhallgeo said:


> You're very astute! The base frame rate of the Flash programs is 30 fps. I foolishly chose this rate. It never dawned on me that you guys would be fighting over hundredths of a second! Having chosen 30fps, the granularity of the time keeper is 0.03333 seconds.


 
Yes, since if you look at the leaderboards (for both Triplex and Quadplex) it always ends in .x0, .x3, or .x7. Just a little "history", the former world record for 2x2 cube was 0.96 seconds, tied by three people. It was all at the hundredths, so I could see this being a problem in the future for triplex.



Just a little side note, what should we call your puzzles? I mean all of them in general. Like do we call the triplex, quadplex, pentaplex (idk, just later puzzles), etc. Kidpaint Puzzles? 



Did you see this, Uhallgeo? If you don't mind, and you can do it, could you put this in a new section of the forums? I accidentally put this in "Welcome Mat".


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## Jaycee (Nov 19, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> ]Just a little side note, what should we call your puzzles? I mean all of them in general. Like do we call the triplex, quadplex, pentaplex (idk, just later puzzles), etc. Kidpaint Puzzles?


 
I've been mentally calling them the Plex Puzzles.

Pentaplex / Hexaplex next? xD Those make me be like T_T_T_T_T_T_T_T

EDIT : Waaaah. Solved Quadplex in a PB time, but the time didn't stop.


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## collinbxyz (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaycee said:


> I've been mentally calling them the Plex Puzzles.
> 
> Pentaplex / Hexaplex next? xD Those make me be like T_T_T_T_T_T_T_T


 
I would, but doesn't this mean that he may not use "plex" at the end of every puzzle?




uhallgeo said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > I might have to write a few more of these... get ready for PENT*RIFIED*, HEX*OTIC*, and SEPTA*CULAR*
> ...



It just seems to me as though he's planning on using something other than "plex" for future puzzles, especially if they have nothing to do with the design of triplex. 



qqwref said:


> And I think "Quadplex II" would be good, if you don't have any other ideas.


 
Either this, or "Super Quadplex", as in "Square-One" and "Super Square-One". Just another idea.


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## qqwref (Nov 19, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Either this, or "Super Quadplex", as in "Square-One" and "Super Square-One". Just another idea.


That doesn't really fit, because "Super" or "Master" (and so on) usually imply things that have an extra layer or something like that. The Super Square-1 has another layer of Square-1 type pieces. For me, calling the puzzles I and II is reminiscent of some of the Chinese mass-produced puzzles, such as the 4x4 Circle Cube I and II which look pretty similar but are pretty different to solve.

And as for a name for the whole class of puzzles... I'd like to call them something like "Flat Puzzles", "Circle Puzzles", or "Turny Puzzles". Many variations of this type of puzzle have been made before and it would feel wrong to name the whole class based on the names we're using here.


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## collinbxyz (Nov 19, 2011)

qqwref said:


> That doesn't really fit, because "Super" or "Master" (and so on) usually imply things that have an extra layer or something like that. The Super Square-1 has another layer of Square-1 type pieces. For me, calling the puzzles I and II is reminiscent of some of the Chinese mass-produced puzzles, such as the 4x4 Circle Cube I and II which look pretty similar but are pretty different to solve.


 
I see what you mean, and I completely agree. My bad, I just was thinking of anything that popped into my head.



qqwref said:


> And as for a name for the whole class of puzzles... I'd like to call them something like "Flat Puzzles", "Circle Puzzles", or "Turny Puzzles". Many variations of this type of puzzle have been made before and it would feel wrong to name the whole class based on the names we're using here.


 
I think in the end, it is Uhallgeo's decision, but i think we should somehow include "2D" or "2-Dimensional" (preferably the former) or something like that in there, as it's short.


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## Meep (Nov 19, 2011)

Also, this physical equivalent has been around for quite a while already.


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## collinbxyz (Nov 19, 2011)

Meep said:


> Also, this physical equivalent has been around for quite a while already.


 
How long has it been around? And where can you buy?
So is the only difference the color scheme (Yellow pieces vs purple/yellow/cyan/white pieces)? I think that a better physical version could easily be made with a pretty simple mechanism, even for future "Plex Puzzles" (Or whatever it will be called in the future).


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## AgentKuo (Nov 20, 2011)

This is fun. Does anyone know anymore games like this?

Is anyone familiar with Eyezmaze? And the "Grow" series?


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## Julian (Nov 20, 2011)

AgentKuo said:


> This is fun. Does anyone know anymore games like this?
> 
> Is anyone familiar with Eyezmaze? And the "Grow" series?


Yes! I love Eyezmaze games


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## uhallgeo (Nov 20, 2011)

qqwref said:


> And I think "Quadplex II" would be good, if you don't have any other ideas.



qqwref-

Quadplex II it is!! (My only other thought was QQadplex.)

- george


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## uhallgeo (Nov 20, 2011)

Jaycee said:


> Waaaah. Solved Quadplex in a PB time, but the time didn't stop.


 
Jaycee-

I am so-o-o-o sorry about your lost solve time. I just uploaded a fix for that (hopefully.)

- george


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## uhallgeo (Nov 20, 2011)

Everyone-

I uploaded version 0.02. Hopefully, it fixes the clock won't stop problem. Someone please post if they solve QuadPlex and the clock keeps running. Oh! I also fixed the left arrow key problem.

And, one more thing...... Apparently, I am not the original creator of Triplex. I came up with Triplex while working on another game. I wanted to create a 'simple' puzzle for a mass market 'escape' game. I came up with Triplex by myself, but that's of no real relevance. I've been told a physical game called Trio is Triplex. So, all I did was implement someone's game in Flash.

Whatever this group mind decides to name or where to take these puzzles... I'm good with it. Besides, I'm having plenty of fun just trying to keep up with you guys. 

- george


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## AgentKuo (Nov 20, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> I know you wouldn't know this (no offence uhallgeo) but the beginning I find is very similar to inserting F2L pairs on a megaminx or something. That's really what I think it is; a megaminx with three sides. Maybe I'm completely wrong of course...


 
Ha ha, yeah, looking at it with F2L in mind makes a lot of sense. Maybe it's just because I've been out of the mindset for a while, but that's a really good way of looking at it.

After thinking about it like that, the outer parts are really easy to finish, but the center...now that is a challenge.


LMAO, I only realized there were 20 pages after I posted this...lol


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## vcuber13 (Nov 20, 2011)

whenever i turn the green one anti clock wise it lags or the yellow anti clockwise


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## collinbxyz (Nov 20, 2011)

Just an idea for future puzzles, I suggest making centers of some kind that indicate what color the face should be. Like a 3x3 it would twist but couldnt move positions from turning. You could make a challenge out of this by making multiple colors on the center (not one solid color) so that the center must be twisted correctly also.


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## collinbxyz (Nov 20, 2011)

I got a 1:30 single on QuadPlex, making me 5th. I still need to find out the algs for the last step in 'my' method. qqwref, what is your method? I skipped the last step in that solve.

I will try to get a picture of the last step when I solve. It could be simple OLL/PLL algs that solve it...I'm not sure. There seems to be a few cases though.





This is just one of the cases. You can see it's usually just switching a piece. Another case is two corners must be swapped, etc. Would commutators solve this? I don't know how I should apply any, as I'm not good with them.


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## vcuber13 (Nov 20, 2011)

try a <R,U> z perm


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## uhallgeo (Nov 20, 2011)

vcuber13 said:


> whenever i turn the green one anti clock wise it lags or the yellow anti clockwise


 
Does anyone else experience this? I can't replicate it on my machine.

- george


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## Jaycee (Nov 20, 2011)

^ It happens sometimes, but I just refresh the page and it works.


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## qqwref (Nov 20, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> I got a 1:30 single on QuadPlex, making me 5th. I still need to find out the algs for the last step in 'my' method. qqwref, what is your method? I skipped the last step in that solve.


It's pretty similar to Triplex. I have a feeling my Quadplex method is much more efficient than what other people are doing...
- Setup the left face 180 degrees away (so, solve two red edges, grey, pink, and a white corner).
- Solve all of the right face (yellow).
- Solve the bottom face (blue) and insert the cyan pieces.
- Using F,U moves (and some L,U if you want) solve the top face (green)
- Solve the brown pair, then the white pair, and finally fix the left face.
For reference, I treat the four wheels as the L, U, R, and F faces, and use a key setup that reflects this.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 20, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Just an idea for future puzzles, I suggest making centers of some kind that indicate what color the face should be. Like a 3x3 it would twist but couldnt move positions from turning. You could make a challenge out of this by making multiple colors on the center (not one solid color) so that the center must be twisted correctly also.



Collinbxyz-

After reading your post, I find that I am a bit lost. But, that's my normal state, so don't pay it too much attention. 

The thing about these 'plex puzzles is that the centers are the only position dependent stones. I was forced to find (because the puzzleIsSolved routine didn't always work right) that say... stone1 doesn't always end up in the position it starts out in.

I think making the stones unique and forcing the solver to put it back in the 'original' position would add another level of complexity. This isn't too hard of a thing to do, and I probably will get around to it. 

First, I want to finish Quadplex II and then add more fluff to the Tri and Quad plex before I take on anymore new projects.

Besides.... I've been toying with (laying it out in my mind) a new puzzle genre. I'm thinking a mouse maze where the object is to let Ratnee go from point A to B on a grid field where you can move the pieces around, but not without affecting other pieces. It's just a thought. I'm not sure whether it would be a glorified 4x4 1 thru 15 puzzle we all did as kids.



- george


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## Jaycee (Nov 20, 2011)

I do this :

-Solve all the yellows. Now it can be viewed as a Triplex, except with 2 extra colors (cyan and brown).
-Solve the left face 180 degrees away (Like QQ).
-Solve blue and cyan at the same time.
-Solve green while connecting the brown pieces.
-Solve brown.
-Solve white.
-Solve the left face by turning it 180 degrees.

Similar to QQ! :O

I sometimes turn my head once I've finished yellow because I'm used to the red-on-top, blue-on-left, green-on-right color scheme of Triplex. I don't turn the yellow face at all once I've finished it.


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## vcuber13 (Nov 20, 2011)

im doing
yellow
magenta grey white corner red edges on left
blue
cyan
green
brown
white
L3

edit: Sub 1!


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## collinbxyz (Nov 20, 2011)

qqwref said:


> It's pretty similar to Triplex. I have a feeling my Quadplex method is much more efficient than what other people are doing...
> - Setup the left face 180 degrees away (so, solve two red edges, grey, pink, and a white corner).
> - Solve all of the right face (yellow).
> - Solve the bottom face (blue) and insert the cyan pieces.
> ...


 
I just solved it for the first time like this, and got about 2:30, although I was sorta following the directions while solving. Waaaay more efficient. Thanks!



uhallgeo said:


> Collinbxyz-
> 
> After reading your post, I find that I am a bit lost. But, that's my normal state, so don't pay it too much attention.
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, I posted that from my phone right when I woke up, so I didn't explain well at all. It's really not a good idea, now that I think of it. But I'll say it anyway. 
If you could make a piece in future puzzles that can twist, but can't actually move positions (like a 3x3 center piece), then you could make it so that that one piece has multiple colors on it like this (Just a rough sketch. Imagine the white piece on the "triplex" in this picture could twist, but can't move to other places on the puzzle. I know this CAN move positions, but I don't want to make another picture example.)





Than you'd have to do extra moves, or learn an algorithm to solve this, if the "center" isn't twisted the right way. It just seems waay to easy now that I think of it, but if you made multiple pieces like this, with more than three colors on each one, than it would at least take longer to solve. 

Again, this is a bad idea to me now, but I thought I'd explain what I was thinking before.

EDIT:

On my third try with qq's method, I almost got pb single (off by 5 seconds).


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## AgentKuo (Nov 21, 2011)

Something wrong with the site? It says "Page Not Found" when I try to go on.


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## Jaycee (Nov 21, 2011)

Yeah, me too. I'm angry. I WANT TO QUADPLEX. D:


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## uhallgeo (Nov 21, 2011)

Everyone-

Yes... the site is down. My son, Wes who owns the site finally decided to spruce it up. And, it went down.

Getting to it is a pain in the arse. You have to google Triplex and the click on the link google provides.

The host provide is working the problem. Nobody seems to know what's going on at this point.

- george


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 21, 2011)

Everyone-

The site is back up (sorta). You can now get to Tri and Quad plex..... just ignore the junk at the bottom. 

BTW if anyone wants to complain about the outage, please do! His name is Wes and he never takes my advice about working local first!

One thing more... I'm about 50% done with QuadPlexII, hopefully I'll get it up before Thanksgiving. I've noticed that my version of QuadPlex has 48 stones and bones. QuadPlexII has eighty!!! It will be interesting to see the delta in solve times.

- george


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 21, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> Everyone-
> 
> The site is back up (sorta). You can now get to Tri and Quad plex..... just ignore the junk at the bottom.
> 
> ...


 
Great to see that! I also noticed the admins  Thanks

Do you know when the site will be running smoothly? As in not having all the stuff at the bottom?


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 22, 2011)

collinbxyz-

He's working it. (Since he's home for the holiday, I'll be sure to sit on him til it gets done.)

- george


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 22, 2011)

Cool, it's working properly now. Just a few minutes ago (I suspect it was caused when you updated) the only page that would work was the home page. Everything else came up with an error. Thanks Uhallgeo! And your son!

Oh yes, and I am getting used to the keyboard controls. Just got a 35 sec solve. 
Hard to get used to though XD


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 22, 2011)

All-

I got the QuadPlexII puzzle up and running locally last night. Seriously, I don't know how you guys can solve that thing. The increase in bones and stones adds a serious level of complexity.

I hope to be done with the database integration tonight. So, it should be up on Kidpaint.net late tonight or early tomorrow.

- george


----------



## SoulSeeker (Nov 22, 2011)

u probably want to change that the key "r" resets the puzzle but wont stop the solve. because my 2 move 0,17s solution would be kinda lucky else 

edit: and with quadplex there are several issues. for examples the mouseover/scrollwheel isnt functioning. and if you mouseover and use the arrowkeys the upper wheel turns (mouseover) turns the right wheel and vise versa. and the keyboard controls are strange aswell. the furthest left keys move the right wheel and the right keys move the left wheel.. i dunno the whole keyboard controls of the quadpley feel unnatural to me...


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 22, 2011)

I just drew out a design for Hexaplex 

Going to add colour and upload now

Edit: Here it is.


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 22, 2011)

@Ben
lets stick with pentaplex first... That looks ridiculous.


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 22, 2011)

@Ben

I just died inside.


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 22, 2011)

Uhallgeo, I think you should make all the different puzzles (triplex, quadplex, quadplex II, etc.) in one flash "window", so you can choose which one you want to solve and stuff without going to different URL's. I think it'd just be much easier.


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 23, 2011)

Sorry for the double post. Wanted to bump this.

I think that the top-3 singles for triplex should be removed. They're either too easy scrambles, or glitches in the system to get sub-1. Do what you want, but that's just a suggestion. 

17.17 single Triplex


----------



## whauk (Nov 23, 2011)

@ben
dont you want to add a piece in the middle by a deeper cut?


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 23, 2011)

Yes, Collin, it was a glitch. See this post from yesterday.



SoulSeeker said:


> u probably want to change that the key "r" resets the puzzle but wont stop the solve. because my 2 move 0,17s solution would be kinda lucky else


 
My inner Grammar Nazi is raging.

Side-note. Quadplex has been helping my Triplex times. I just got a 59.xy, but the timer didn't stop. -__- (Not like it matters)


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 23, 2011)

Jaycee said:


> Yes, Collin, it was a glitch. See this post from yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Okay, sorry for not seeing that. But still needs to be fixed 

59.xx on quadplex? Nice...


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 23, 2011)

Nononono, I meant 59.xy on Triplex. xD

Yeah, I suck at these ;_;


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 23, 2011)

Jaycee said:


> Nononono, I meant 59.xy on Triplex. xD
> 
> Yeah, I suck at these ;_;


 
Oh... good job then!

Oh yes, Uhallgeo, I just tried the glitch to see if it was still working, and I got a 4.10 single. So you can delete that too when you fix the leaderboard thing. Although I was top ten with my 17.17 single, I think


----------



## qqwref (Nov 23, 2011)

I feel like I need to ask Meep if the 6 single was done accidentally with that glitch or not. I'm just not sure if it was a legitimate easy solve or if the time was recorded by accident.

Actually, it might be easier to just reset the leaderboard after this glitch gets fixed...


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 23, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Actually, it might be easier to just reset the leaderboard after this glitch gets fixed...


 
I guess this would be the easiest way. Or should we delete the top 4/5 times (glitched ones) and leave the 6-10 solves on the leaderboards reset?


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 23, 2011)

SoulSeeker said:


> u probably want to change that the key "r" resets the puzzle but wont stop the solve. because my 2 move 0,17s solution would be kinda lucky else



SoulSeeker - 

Fantastic bug find! I'll kill that bug tonight, right after dinner! Unfortunately, I'll dump the 2 move solve too. (sorry).




SoulSeeker said:


> with quadplex there are several issues. for examples the mouseover/scrollwheel isnt functioning. and if you mouseover and use the arrowkeys the upper wheel turns (mouseover) turns the right wheel and vise versa. and the keyboard controls are strange aswell. the furthest left keys move the right wheel and the right keys move the left wheel.. i dunno the whole keyboard controls of the quadpley feel unnatural to me...



I killed the scroll wheel function. Different browsers treat the scroll wheel event differently. And, stupid Adobe changed the way they trapped the event from AS2. Anyway, long story short.... I couldn't make it work reliably in all browsers so I killed it. I plan to implement a drag function in its place. You know, drag the mouse across the wheel and it will rotate in the direction as if the wheel was pinned in the center.

- george


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 23, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> I just drew out a design for Hexaplex
> 
> Going to add colour and upload now


 
You guys are seriously bent. You know that.... right???

- george


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 23, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Uhallgeo, I think you should make all the different puzzles (triplex, quadplex, quadplex II, etc.) in one flash "window", so you can choose which one you want to solve and stuff without going to different URL's. I think it'd just be much easier.


 
Collinbxyz -

You and I think very much alike! I have already been working on just that. 

- george


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 23, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I feel like I need to ask Meep if the 6 single was done accidentally with that glitch or not. I'm just not sure if it was a legitimate easy solve or if the time was recorded by accident.
> 
> Actually, it might be easier to just reset the leaderboard after this glitch gets fixed...



qqwref -

I actually record more than is shown in the leaderboard. I did that in order to stop hacking and cheats. So I can use that info to find bad solves. After I fix the glitch tonight, I'll try to go through the database and try to 'clean' it up. Throwing away honest achievements just seems wrong.

- george


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 23, 2011)

Great to see updates happening soon 

Another thing, sometimes I (randomly, I'm pretty sure) get the certificate to pop up. But not all the time. One thing I don't like is the lifetime average on it since the idea is too get better, so your lifetime average is waaay higher than what you currently average, for most people. I think you should have a little database of the session, which gives you average of 5, average of 12, and session average (and maybe best ao5 and ao120). If you didn't know, averages are calculated by removing the best and worst time, than finding the mean for the three middle times.


----------



## qqwref (Nov 23, 2011)

If you get averages working, it might be interesting to have a high score list of averages of 5 or 12. (To prevent cheating, the session should reset whenever you quit out of a solve after seeing the scramble.) Although it would be in roughly the same order as the single ranking, it would prevent people being lucky and getting a really amazing time, because you need to be consistently good to get a good average.


----------



## emolover (Nov 23, 2011)

29.811 (45.207) 25.719 (22.744) 27.729 => 27.753
29.882 (45.977) 40.79 34.98 26.448 24.527 44.288 29.811 45.207 25.719 (22.744) 27.729 => 32.938

Edit: Sub 20 single 

19.736

62 @ 3.14


----------



## Forte (Nov 23, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I feel like I need to ask Meep if the 6 single was done accidentally with that glitch or not. I'm just not sure if it was a legitimate easy solve or if the time was recorded by accident.
> 
> Actually, it might be easier to just reset the leaderboard after this glitch gets fixed...


 
He just got really lucky rofl


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 23, 2011)

uhallgeo - 

My time on the leaderboard should be deleted as well due to the glitch.

~Jaycee


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 23, 2011)

Quadplex II is up!
http://www.kidpaint.net/quadplexii


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 23, 2011)

Holyshit, that looks awesome. Gogogo intuitive but slow solving!


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 23, 2011)

Since I think it just came up, it doesn't have a picture of it solved, so idk how it should look. Also I need to get used to controls


----------



## emolover (Nov 23, 2011)

qqwerf

What is your method for quadplex?  You get sub 20 times and I am struggling to get sub 2:30


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 23, 2011)

emolover said:


> qqwerf
> 
> What is your method for quadplex? You get sub 20 times and I am struggling to get sub 2:30


 


qqwref said:


> It's pretty similar to Triplex. I have a feeling my Quadplex method is much more efficient than what other people are doing...
> - Setup the left face 180 degrees away (so, solve two red edges, grey, pink, and a white corner).
> - Solve all of the right face (yellow).
> - Solve the bottom face (blue) and insert the cyan pieces.
> ...



Also - Quadplex II is making my brain die. O.O

EDIT : I think I'll wait until there's an image up, showing what it should look like solved.


----------



## qqwref (Nov 24, 2011)

I feel like I should warn you guys:
- Quadplex II is pretty hard, and
- I'm not going to tell how to do it (two reasons: my method isn't especially advanced/efficient so I'm not really withholding anything here, and I think y'all would gain something from trying to figure this one out on your own.)

Posted a 3:44, I'll try to improve it tomorrow


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 24, 2011)

Quadplex II is too much for my brain at 1:00 A.M. 

Yay, 59.33 Triplex single 

EDIT : 51.17. Wut. So lucky, but I did force a skip of a part of my method. :3 I average ~1:20.

EDIT2 : 52.00. Bummer. 

EDIT3 : 55.97. Could've been PB, but I messed up near the end.

EDIT4 : Holy ****. 40.97! YAY IMPROVEMENT. 62 moves. My 51.17 was 67! :O

EDIT5 : Are you ****ing kidding me? 2 solves later, a 47 move 33.40.

EDIT6: After ~ 15 solves in the 1:01-1:30 range, I got a 47 move 31.67. I'm done for tonight.


----------



## Meep (Nov 24, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I feel like I need to ask Meep if the 6 single was done accidentally with that glitch or not. I'm just not sure if it was a legitimate easy solve or if the time was recorded by accident.
> 
> Actually, it might be easier to just reset the leaderboard after this glitch gets fixed...


 
Not that I'm aware of; I would've reported it here. ):


----------



## qqwref (Nov 24, 2011)

I see, nice job on your luck then 

Got a 2:55 on Quadplex II.


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 24, 2011)

My quadplex II method didnt work so well... I must have tried for 30-45 minutes (through out different solves).

I sorta didnt want you to give method qq. Thx i guess.


----------



## emolover (Nov 24, 2011)

I tried for over and hour and still didn't get it.

I ended up with like only ten pieces not solved.

Method was


Spoiler



I got all the corners?(biggest pieces) solved but the top and bottom had to have a U2 done to them
Inserted the far left/right blue/yellow triangle pieces
Made a <l [ ] l> and inserted on both blue and yellow "sides"
Inserted the white triangle red side in between the orange and pink hexagons
Made a white <l [ ] l> in inserted in the place below the orange and pink hexagons
Fixed the red and green hexagons so they match with there sides in the center
Fix the top right, bottom right, bottom left and top left blue and yellow triangles
Try multiple times and rage quite at puting the movable squares in the correct place



qqwerf I am going to wait to solve it again until you reveal your method. That was frustrating especially since its a 2D puzzle which I am not use to.


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 25, 2011)

Meep said:


> Not that I'm aware of; I would've reported it here. ):


 
Meep-

I looked at the solves database. I couldn't find any reason to invalidate your 6.5 sec Triplex solve.

OK.... if you didn't backdoor the database .... You have the quickest synapses I have EVER SEEN!!!!

- george


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 25, 2011)

Jaycee said:


> uhallgeo -
> 
> My time on the leaderboard should be deleted as well due to the glitch.
> 
> ~Jaycee



Jaycee -

I killed your "Magic Reset Time" along with a bunch of others. I think qqwref lost the most solve times. Not that they were "Magic Reset Times", I just couldn't validate them for one reason or another.

- george


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 25, 2011)

Thanks, George.

Just set my Quadplex PB by over 70 seconds. 107.53.  If I can get a sub-100 I'll devote an hour to trying to figure out Quadplex II.


----------



## emolover (Nov 25, 2011)

Jaycee said:


> Thanks, George.
> 
> Just set my Quadplex PB by over 70 seconds. 107.53.  If I can get a sub-100 I'll devote an hour to trying to figure out Quadplex II.


 
Have fun with that! See if you can improve on where I failed with my method if you cant think of one yourself.


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 25, 2011)

Mother of God...

83.57 Quadplex. Version 2, here I come!


----------



## emolover (Nov 25, 2011)

@qqwerf 

Can you tell me how to switch these two pieces? 









Jaycee said:


> Mother of God...
> 
> 83.57 Quadplex. Version 2, here I come!


 
You wont like it.

Edit: Suck it Jaycee!!!

1:17.981

144 @ 1.85


----------



## qqwref (Nov 25, 2011)

emolover said:


> @qqwerf
> 
> Can you tell me how to switch these two pieces?


L (F' U F U') L' (U F' U' F)

EDIT: Even better, L (U' R' U) L' (U' R U)


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 25, 2011)

*My Results After an Hour of Experimentation With Quadplex II*

I hate life even more than before.

~Jaycee


----------



## emolover (Nov 25, 2011)

qqwref said:


> L (F' U F U') L' (U F' U' F)
> 
> EDIT: Even better, L (U' R' U) L' (U' R U)



Thank you.



Jaycee said:


> *My Results After an Hour of Experimentation With Quadplex II*
> 
> I hate life even more than before.
> 
> ~Jaycee


 
That made me laugh. How close did you get? Did you try what I had?


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 25, 2011)

It took me about 20 minutes just to build all of the reds. Then I took a Triplex sort of approach to it. I got all but one white piece, the two cyan pieces that are connected to the white center, and the two grays connected to white, together and the a U3 away. I could blockbuild some of the blue, but I ended up ragequitting when I got all but 3 of the blues left. This was about 50 minutes in, so I just tried random blockbuilding crap afterward. ;_;

On the subject of Quadplex version 1, try doing solves on the actual site. You can edit the keys used to move the faces so I don't think you'll have to change controls from QQ's sim. I still use arrow keys. >__>


----------



## emolover (Nov 25, 2011)

Hopefully qqwerf will eventually tell use his method(I might try again tomorrow).

As for doing the tri and quadplex in the actual site, I don't like doing that. It just feels so weird to me, I am also use to qqwerf colors.


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 25, 2011)

Ah, I see. 

Is there a "manual" for QQ's Tri and Quad sims? Like "F key does ___ and J does ___"?


----------



## qqwref (Nov 25, 2011)

I could write one if you want. The turns are briefly explained in the source. Here's how it works:
- For Triplex, the three faces are R, U, and F (although L turns also work for the F face), and turns are the same as on the hi-games sim. Specifically, i/k for R, j/f for U, h/g for F, and d/e for L.
- For both Quadplex versions, the four faces are R, U, F, and L, and turns are the same as on the hi-games sim.
- Space scrambles, Escape quits a solve (and clears your rolling average if you were in the middle of it).


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 25, 2011)

Thanks. I'll try getting used to that. 

@ emolover, 1:08.40, 82 moves, Quadplex. 

I still get Triplex times slower than this sometimes...


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 25, 2011)

Everyone.....

Are your solve times on KidPaint.net for Quadplex II posting???? Or do I have a problem???

- george


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 25, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> Everyone.....
> 
> Are your solve times on KidPaint.net for Quadplex II posting???? Or do I have a problem???
> 
> - george



The reason there is only 1 time is that no one can solve it.


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 25, 2011)

Hao2sorve?

I always run in to this case and I dunno how to solve it. I've only ever solved quadplex1 twice

Edit: Figured some stuff out.

First sub 5 minute :3






Edit2: lolwow this is so easy now 

45.88 48.128 (41.18) (59.111) 43.281 => 45.763

Edit3: 36.799

Edit4: 45.88 48.128 41.18 (59.111) 43.281 40.184 50.248 47.128 40.689 43.663 (36.799) 38.966 => 43.935

Edit5: 31.33 single


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 25, 2011)

Quadplex single 28.73 on kidpaint 

2nd on the leaderboard.

Top 3 are now 17.70, 28.73, 55.50

And I've only been able to solve it for an hour 

Edit: On quadplex, if you go to instructions, it says "Mix up Triplex".


----------



## Jaycee (Nov 25, 2011)

Nice solve, Ben!

Curse you for making me one spot lower on the leaderboard.


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 25, 2011)

Yaay! Optional keyboard controls 

Although I was getting used to the other controls... but this is better! Thanks

EDIT: 
16.23 triplex single 

I think we should start using the kidpaint.net forums for some stuff. I just don't think we should crowd this with PB's, when you could put it in the accomplishment thread here.


----------



## emolover (Nov 25, 2011)

Although I got a Sub 16 on the kid paint triplex I still prefer qqwerf's version.


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 25, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> Edit: On quadplex, if you go to instructions, it says "Mix up Triplex".



ben1996123 -

I am in the process of consolidating the 'Plex puzzles into one program (per collinxyz's suggestion). I should catch this error with that update.

- george


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 25, 2011)

Everyone-

Since I am consolidating the 'Plex puzzles.... I am open to any suggestions for additions or modifications. Like, should I add a sound track? Personal history? etc.

- george


----------



## emolover (Nov 25, 2011)

In the triplex forum I posted a thread about a glitch with the triplex(and I would assume the other plex's). It can be turned before the timer starts.



uhallgeo said:


> Everyone-
> 
> Since I am consolidating the 'Plex puzzles.... I am open to any suggestions for additions or modifications. Like, should I add a sound track? Personal history? etc.
> 
> - george



I think you should add a function that gives your most recent average of 5, 12, and 100. Personal history would be nice too.


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 25, 2011)

I found another glitch that you can find here.

I am just wondering, what are you working on atm?


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 25, 2011)

Here's a 31.79 I got.


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 26, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> I am just wondering, what are you working on atm?



collinbxyz -

I'm not sure what you mean, but.... on off-hours, I am re-writing the 'Plex puzzles into one flash program. But, for my day job.... I'm working on a weird secure wireless network. 

- george


----------



## qqwref (Nov 26, 2011)

Posting these Quadplex II times (from my sim) because they're ridiculous...

1:26.515 single (325 moves @ 3.76 moves/sec)
(2:10.492) 1:50.531 1:51.037 2:07.946 (1:26.515) => 1:56.505 average of 5
1:55.472 1:46.971 2:02.352 2:00.923 2:04.432 2:05.323 1:57.899 (2:10.492) 1:50.531 1:51.037 2:07.946 (1:26.515) => 1:58.289 average of 12


----------



## collinbxyz (Nov 26, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> collinbxyz -
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean, but.... on off-hours, I am re-writing the 'Plex puzzles into one flash program. But, for my day job.... I'm working on a weird secure wireless network.
> 
> - george


 
I meant for triplex, but that's still pretty interesting  thanks




qqwref said:


> 1:26.515 single (325 moves @ 3.76 moves/sec)


 
o_0 ridiculous


----------



## IanTheCuber (Nov 26, 2011)

I can't get the last ring...


----------



## emolover (Nov 26, 2011)

IanTheCuber said:


> I can't get the last ring...


 
Use Stephan's method that's on the fourth page. 




Stefan said:


> 24.16... +2 :fp
> 
> Improved method:
> 
> ...


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 26, 2011)

Lol I found a bug in quadplex and got a 0.00 

Dunno how I did it though...

Edit: Found another bug (again, dunno how), and it just basically messed the colours up.


----------



## emolover (Nov 26, 2011)

Which quadplex? QQ's or the kidpaint one?


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 26, 2011)

emolover said:


> Which quadplex? QQ's or the kidpaint one?



See edit.


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 26, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> Lol I found a bug in quadplex and got a 0.00
> 
> Dunno how I did it though...
> 
> Edit: Found another bug (again, dunno how), and it just basically messed the colours up.



Ben1996123-

That's a SERIOUS bug!!! Is it repeatable??? Can you duplicate it?? Were you using keyboard inputs?

- george


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 26, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> Ben1996123-
> 
> That's a SERIOUS bug!!! Is it repeatable??? Can you duplicate it?? Were you using keyboard inputs?
> 
> - george



Yeah I figured out how to repeat the colours messing up, still can't repeat the 0.00 "solve" though. Also, can you change my 0.00 on the leaderboard to 27.10 please?

I'll make a video showing the colour bug now.


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 26, 2011)

Here it is


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 26, 2011)

ben1996123-

I am sitting here just "lovin' it". I NEVER contemplated someone playing QuadPlex that way. Please give me a second. I need some oxygen. Ok, ok.... I'll 'fix' it.

- george


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 26, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> ben1996123-
> 
> I am sitting here just "lovin' it". I NEVER contemplated someone playing QuadPlex that way. Please give me a second. I need some oxygen. Ok, ok.... I'll 'fix' it.
> 
> - george



have fun.


----------



## qqwref (Nov 26, 2011)

I found a bug on Quadplex (don't know if it's on the other ones too). It seems that after the timer starts it takes about a second before I can do any turns (I'm using keyboard controls). I don't know if this is intentional or not but it could be a problem when trying to set records


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 26, 2011)

ben1996123-

Can you give QuadPlex a solve again and see if I fixed it.

AND... AND one more thing.... this is for everyone.... Can you guys please post bugs on kidpaint? I think there's a spot in the forums for them. I appreciate it. Wes is setting it up so I get notified immediately when a bug comes in.

Thanks .... really, I can't say it enough.... thanks!

- george


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 26, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I found a bug on Quadplex (don't know if it's on the other ones too). It seems that after the timer starts it takes about a second before I can do any turns (I'm using keyboard controls). I don't know if this is intentional or not but it could be a problem when trying to set records



qqwref-

This bug is (hopefully was) a serious problem. Since you're a coder......

Most of my career I've been doing embedded stuff. It's really straightforward to push ones and zeros around. This working with humans stuff is a real nightmare. The UI is 90 percent of the code! And, working with events through the web is all brand new to me. None of which I ever had to work about before.

But.... this is fun!

- george


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 26, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> ben1996123-
> 
> Can you give QuadPlex a solve again and see if I fixed it.
> 
> - george



I tried it again and it still happens...


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 26, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> I tried it again and it still happens...



ben1996123-

One thing ..... Browsers cache web pages. You have to 'refresh' the page in order to get the latest version of the code. One way to see if you're using the 'fixed' version, is the version number on the opening scene should be 0.05 AND you'll probably have to redo your keyboard settings.

I'm r-e-a-l-l-y hoping this is fixed. 

- george


----------



## ben1996123 (Nov 26, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> ben1996123-
> 
> One thing ..... Browsers cache web pages. You have to 'refresh' the page in order to get the latest version of the code. One way to see if you're using the 'fixed' version, is the version number on the opening scene should be 0.05 AND you'll probably have to redo your keyboard settings.
> 
> ...



Just went to Quadplex and it says 0.05, and I didn't have to redo my keyboard controls. I'll test the bug now.

Edit: It's still happening D:


----------



## uhallgeo (Nov 26, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> Edit: It's still happening D:



ben1996123 -

%&**%[email protected]!#$ !!!! It's a deeper bug. (*&%$%^&*!!!

I might have to implement MVC. I'm doing that for the compilation, but I REALLY didn't want to waste time redoing QuadPlex. I was really praying the band-aid would work.

Thanks ben1996123. 

- george


- george


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## ben1996123 (Nov 26, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> %&**%[email protected]!#$ !!!! It's a deeper bug. (*&%$%^&*!!!









It's not that important if it doesn't get fixed, it doesn't let you get superfast hax times.



Edit: I would try to fix it like this:

Check if the certificate is open, and if it is, stop all of the controls so you can't do anything until you close the certificate (the colours only break if the certificate is open).


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## ben1996123 (Nov 27, 2011)

I noticed you uploaded 0.06. It's fixed now


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## collinbxyz (Nov 27, 2011)

Oh, btw, I got 15.60 triplex single 

I'm still working on the best keyboard controls for quadplex... ideas?

EDIT: Woah, 11.43 single o_0 sub-10 gogogo!


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## ben1996123 (Nov 27, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> Oh, btw, I got 15.60 triplex single
> 
> I'm still working on the best keyboard controls for quadplex... ideas?



I use this:






Also, new bug in Quadplex: When a solve is finished and you close the certificate, you can mix it up and do another solve without pressing reset, so the timer also doesn't reset, it just continues from the previous solves time. I noticed this when I got a 9 minute single :/


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## Jaycee (Nov 27, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> EDIT: Woah, 11.43 single o_0 sub-10 gogogo!


 
This is weird. You're so much faster than me at Triplex (I average ~ 1:00), but I think I'm faster than you at Quadplex (I average ~1:20). How do you solve Quadplex?


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## collinbxyz (Nov 27, 2011)

Jaycee said:


> This is weird. You're so much faster than me at Triplex (I average ~ 1:00), but I think I'm faster than you at Quadplex (I average ~1:20). How do you solve Quadplex?


 
I've only done quadplex like 4-6 times with arrow keys 
I think I used qq's method... idk, I'll start practicing, but for now I'm happy to be third for triplex 



ben1996123 said:


> I use this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 
I tried these controls already by myself, I HATE the G and H reaches. 

I also got this bug.


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## qqwref (Nov 27, 2011)

I see I'm still the only person to have recorded a time on Quadplex II. Here's the deal: when someone else solves it (that is, posts a time on kidpaint), I'll post my method 

EDIT: small hint:


Spoiler



You should be able to solve everything but the little triangles with intuition. Try to figure out a commutator that moves only 3 little triangles.


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## gyc6001 (Nov 27, 2011)

Parity algorithm for 2 adjacent secondary colour swap? (ie: magenta and yellow)


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## emolover (Nov 27, 2011)

Now that I look at the Quadplex II again, it doesn't seem that hard as when I first/last time tried it, I was over think it. You just need to know one algorithm. I have a basic understanding of commutators and think I might be able to do this. 

How I plan to solve it


Spoiler



Solve the hexagon pieces(Easy)
Solve the squares(Trivial)
Finally solve the isosolese(spelling) triangles(Hard as of now)



I will do when I wake up in the mourning.



gyc6001 said:


> Parity algorithm for 2 adjacent secondary colour swap? (ie: magenta and yellow)


 
If this is for quadplex then use what's on this page for that.

If not then look of the forth or fifth page for the Pochmann method.


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## Cheese11 (Nov 27, 2011)

This is as far as I got...


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## Meep (Nov 27, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I see I'm still the only person to have recorded a time on Quadplex II. Here's the deal: when someone else solves it (that is, posts a time on kidpaint), I'll post my method
> 
> EDIT: small hint:
> 
> ...


 
I just did a 29 min solve, but that included figuring out how to solve it. =P

I managed to figure out comms that cycled squares + little triangles that were attached to them, as well as a pure little triangle 3-cycle. The latter was VERY useful.


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## adragast (Nov 27, 2011)

Sorry to go back to the triplex, but how many moves do you average on it ? If someones did not care about time, how many moves do you think he/she would need to solve it. Can we get a FMC version of the triplex  ?


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## ben1996123 (Nov 27, 2011)

Quadplex II bug: In the options menu, the controls for blue and red are switched (ie. whatever controls you set for blue, when you press them, it will actually move red.)


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## uhallgeo (Nov 27, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> Also, new bug in Quadplex: When a solve is finished and you close the certificate, you can mix it up and do another solve without pressing reset, so the timer also doesn't reset, it just continues from the previous solves time. I noticed this when I got a 9 minute single :/



ben1996123 -

This was a "feature". I never intended to make these 'Plex puzzles stand alone, so the buttons were really intended...... oh-h-h who am I kidding? I screwed up.... again! This is a residual that got left behind. 

I see you found one on QII too. I'll go after that one next!

- george


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## qqwref (Nov 27, 2011)

Congrats to Meep for figuring out Quadplex II. Here's my method/explanation:


Spoiler



For convenience I'll call the big hexagons "edges", the small squares "corners", and the small triangles "centers". I'll use the colors in my sim: clockwise from the top, we have green, lime, yellow, orange, red, purple, blue, cyan. I'll call the four faces U, R, F, and L.

The first method I used works like this:
1) Solve the red edges and corner, and then the green edges and corner. Edges should be obvious; we can move corners around with sequences of only F and U moves.
2) Solve the blue edges and corner, then the yellow edges and corner. We can move edges with algs like UL'U', and once the edges are solved we can move corners around with sequences of only L and R moves, as in step 1.
3) Solve the remaining four edges and five corners. The edges can be moved with algs like U'RUR', and the corners with algs like L'RLR'. I usually solve the purple and orange edges/corners first, which leaves two possible parity cases. First, cyan and lime are swapped; my solution is to do RU2R'U'RU'R' and then fix the green corner (LR'L'RU'). Second, we end up with a corner position that can't be solved with our 3-cycle alg; my solution is to do U'RUR'URU2R' and then fix the green corner (R'LRL'U2).
4) Now, we cycle all of the centers. It's very important to realize that the centers are actually in two separate orbits (groups of pieces that cannot be intermixed); each one contains 16 pieces. For instance, one orbit contains the four centers closest to the fixed point of the F face, the four centers closest to the fixed point of the U face, the four centers on the outside ring of R, and the four centers on the outside ring of L. I call this the UF orbit, and the other one is the LR orbit. When I do these pieces, I generally try to solve the outside pieces last because there are many of them (e.g. four yellow centers and four blue centers in the UF orbit) and so they're easier to keep track of. My alg looks like this: (LR'L'R) (U2FU2) (R'LRL') (U2F'U2). Note that a mirror (doing the LRLR cycles in the opposite direction) is also possible, and the F moves can be replaced with any turns of the F face, so you can cycle between any two of the four F centers. Being able to do this alg from any direction is recommended, and in fact, executing it 90 degrees off is required on this puzzle in order to solve the LR orbit.

So what's the improved method I've been using? Basically, I just try to blockbuild as many of the red and green centers as I can during the start, because that ends up saving some time, especially in the LR orbit, which I find a little more awkward. For red, I first build the two edges; imagine the F face is 180 degrees off from solved. Then I insert the center pointing down (R'LRL' or similar), the center (U moves), and the left/right pointing centers (LUL' and similar, and R'UR and similar). Finally I put in one or both of the other two centers (mostly U and F moves). Of course, all these algs require certain pieces to be in one of a few places, so I'll often move the red face to solved and do some other moves to set up the pieces for these steps. Now, for green, you can use similar moves (albeit a bit longer), but be aware that the parity algs will mess up some of your hard work, so it's up to you as to how risky you want to be with it. Each center you solve saves some significant time later on in the cycling step.

So yeah, it's kinda complicated, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if there's something way better out there. It's something, though, and after a bunch of solves you can get used to what you need to do.


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## Jaycee (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks for sharing, QQ! I followed it up until solving the corners in step 3, which I can't seem to figure out.


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## collinbxyz (Nov 27, 2011)

.10 off pb single triplex 
11.53... Still pretty awesome for me.

I'm gonna lay off QPII for now.


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## Meep (Nov 27, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Congrats to Meep for figuring out Quadplex II. Here's my method/explanation:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 
My pure 3-cycle was [ Doublesune , F2 ], though sunes in general were helpful with the blockbuilding lol

Edit: 11mins ): I keep messing up my F-R sunes. My method's building everything but the top circle, then use my Square-cycle [Sune,F2] and my triangle-cycle [Doublesune,F2] to solve the last circle either with a buffer or just a bunch of setups.

Edit2: 7mins, forgot a setup for an F-R sune again. ): Building the first 3 circles became a lot easier. Also found an O perm for top-circle squares: Righty Sune + Lefty Sune + U'

Okay I can probably build the bottom 3 circles sub1:30 now lol, I make 'hammers' on adjacent circles and connect them to their center, then build a 'bullet' and place that with the hammers to build a block. If that made sense. Might take screenshots of what I mean if people are interested.


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## uhallgeo (Nov 27, 2011)

ben1996123 said:


> Quadplex II bug: In the options menu, the controls for blue and red are switched (ie. whatever controls you set for blue, when you press them, it will actually move red.)


 ben1996123-

I fixed this bug. I also changed some other stuff in the UI to bring it up to where QuadPlex is at. 

- george


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## Meep (Nov 27, 2011)

uhallgeo said:


> qqwref-
> 
> This bug is (hopefully was) a serious problem. Since you're a coder......
> 
> ...


 
I think the problem's that you can't move anything while the GO! text is still there. You can only make moves as soon as it completely fades away (Which takes ~1 sec).


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## uhallgeo (Nov 28, 2011)

Meep said:


> I think the problem's that you can't move anything while the GO! text is still there. You can only make moves as soon as it completely fades away (Which takes ~1 sec).


 
Meep-

Yeah.... that's another 'feature'. I actually did put that in. The timer should start within the same 33 millisecond period after 'Go' fades completely. I never liked that "Ready - Set - Go" script. I really hate being an artist whose the equivalent of a third-grader with a box of broken crayons, but.... that's what I be.

I'll see if I can come up with something better for the compilation. If you want to suggest anything, you'll find I'm listening.

- george


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## qqwref (Nov 28, 2011)

Meep said:


> Okay I can probably build the bottom 3 circles sub1:30 now lol, I make 'hammers' on adjacent circles and connect them to their center, then build a 'bullet' and that with the hammers and place the block. If that made sense. Might take screenshots of what I mean if people are interested.


Huh, interesting. I'd like to see how you do this (a video, perhaps?).


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## Meep (Nov 28, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Huh, interesting. I'd like to see how you do this (a video, perhaps?).


 
Here's a video of the general idea:






It's key to build them on an adjacent circle just because of their orbits.


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## qqwref (Nov 28, 2011)

Cool technique. I experimented a little, and I think this is a reasonable amount to try to solve "intuitively" (nothing more complex than sunes and 4-move comms):


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## Meep (Nov 28, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Cool technique. I experimented a little, and I think this is a reasonable amount to try to solve "intuitively" (nothing more complex than sunes and 4-move comms):



It wouldn't be too much more to get the red blue and yellow triangles in too. The purple and brown square+hexagons can be easily inserted with just RUR' or L'U'L, and the last center's hexagons/squares can be done with sunes. I take advantage of sunes/doublesunes inserting triangles into the middle-D triangle while messing up the top circle when solving purple/brown, so I don't have to do my long comms.


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## qqwref (Nov 28, 2011)

I'll definitely have to play around with it some more. I got a 1:33 single with a heavier blockbuilding strategy, but then I was back to the normal 2:00ish solves, so it definitely needs some tweaking. The big question for me is how many pieces I can get done without using too many moves (as compared to the commutator step).


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## qqwref (Nov 28, 2011)

Recorded a 1:38 (sub-100 ) on the Kidpaint version of Quadplex. (Nice 2:01, Meep!)

EDIT: 1:34


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## blackzabbathfan (Mar 16, 2012)

After over 10 minutes of playing with the Triplex for the first time, I had to switch 2 greens with 2 blues, I then gave up.


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