# Cheating at Weekly Competitions



## Nikhil Soares (Feb 26, 2018)

Hi,
I have recently started competing in the weekly competitions.
Thanks to everyone at Speedsolving for organising them.
After a while, I realised that it would be very easy for a person to cheat at the weekly competitions!
I would hereby request the Organisers of the weekly competitions to implement some rules for the competitions to follow so that no cheating takes place, or at least it is reduced.
Some methods for conformation of times are -
1) You should not be allowed to edit your times once you have entered them. However, this may not be that effective since errors may start to take place. For example it is possible that a person may enter 2x2 times in 3x3 or something like this. They may not be able to change them back and may even get an advantage in their times.
2) WCA times could be compared for each person by linking each person’s speedsolving profile to their WCA profile. This still may not be that effective since -
a) that person may not have competed officially due to lack of competitions in that area.
b) that person may have improved since their last competition.
For the b) part, there is still a solution - maximum 5% time drop could be accepted in comparison with official WCA timings. You can still cheat to get your times closer to your WCA times for example cheating and entering a 10 second average which is almost my official PB instead of a 11 second one.
Thus, I feel that the next point would be the best possible option.
3) Video proof should be provided along with their solve timings and there should be someone to check these videos on a daily basis.

If you check week 8’s results from this year (2018), in MBLD there are many people who have entered a 0/0 cubes and thus it is a DNF. It look like they are just entering DNFs to earn some participation points!

These were just some of my opinions on how this problem could be resolved, if you have more options for this, please leave a comment about that in this thread.
I would love it if the Weekly Competition Organisers could implement one of these options or maybe even multiple of them if possible. Please take this as a complaint.
Thanks,
Nikhil Soares.
I’m also posting a poll regarding the same problem.


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## xyzzy (Feb 26, 2018)

Nikhil Soares said:


> 1) You should not be allowed to edit your times once you have entered them. However, this may not be that effective since errors may start to take place. For example it is possible that a person may enter 2x2 times in 3x3 or something like this. They may not be able to change them back and may even get an advantage in their times.


More than a couple of times I've accidentally started the timer (before even scrambling the cube, say) and being able to delete those times is pretty nice, so no, I'd vote against this change.



Nikhil Soares said:


> For the b) part, there is still a solution - maximum 5% time drop could be accepted in comparison with official WCA timings.


I've gotten sub-50 averages for 444 for the weekly comps three times, but my fastest official single is 56.x; where does that put me?



Nikhil Soares said:


> 3) Video proof should be provided along with their solve timings and there should be someone to check these videos on a daily basis.


I wouldn't personally mind this too much, but some people might find it very inconvenient to film all of their solves, and it's not always easy to determine whether a solve video is "legitimate", especially if the video is of very low quality. (Yes, some of you have GoPros and whatnot, but a fair number of solve videos I see on this forum are so bad that I can't even distinguish the colours half of the time, with a frame rate so low that I can't even see a full move being executed.)



Nikhil Soares said:


> If you check week 8’s results from this year (2018), in MBLD there are many people who have entered a 0/0 cubes and thus it is a DNF. It look like they are just entering DNFs to earn some participation points!


Some of them look legitimate, going from the comments they've left (e.g. Jacck's 1/5); I don't know why the site doesn't reflect the correct number of solved/attempted cubes. That said, I _think_ MCuber should have been disqualified for MBLD (from earlier comments and the times, they're not even seriously attempting two cubes).


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## MatsBergsten (Feb 26, 2018)

We have had cheaters - or "jokers", yes. Some obvious, some not so obvious.
Were constantly trying to remove such results. For all those who compete in earnest
it is much nicer if there are no phony results.

As to your suggestions we have some experience with all of those.

1) is error prone. There is another cube competition site which has this rule.
It feels very bad to enter results there, whatever little error you do in timing
or submitting results or whatever you cannot correct your errors. It feels rigid
and unforgiving. We prefer a user friendly site. In that site you are not allowed
to see the scrambles before you compete. What is the point in that.

2) we're using but with afterthought. There are some people who really improve fast,
some are not succeeding in making their best efforts at WCA competition because
they are nervous or unlucky. Even if you could have a rule or function that could
accurately tell possible improvement over time, that does not in any way hinders
a person to enter his/her best result from WCA when the actual result at home
were much worse.

3) videos: in extreme cases we ask for a video or some other proof. It usually
gives some result, often withdrawal of the entered results. Sometimes the person
just quit posting which is not all good.


We want a site where everyone has fun and can have a nice time with our mutual hobby.
But we prefer to trust people. There have been several cases where people have
entered phony results but after a while and perhaps some messages realized the
futility (and perhaps unfairness) and quit doing that.

*In the end everyone must realize that there really is no point in cheating.*
You cannot fool yourself with fake results.

This at least is my point of view.

EDIT: oh, I forgot. The silly Multi results are our "fault". We (Mike mostly ) are trying
to include all info also for DNF Multis and are close to succeeding. The 0/0 DNF was
how all dnf:s showed previously. This week we have both.


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## Nikhil Soares (Feb 26, 2018)

Ok, thanks for having a look at this. Your opinions made me think and I really appreciate them.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 26, 2018)

Thanks, Mats, for outlining so well the reasons for our decisions on how to run the site. 

I should also mention that this week I introduced a new rule to the site - you are no longer allowed to enter a result with all DNFs for a given event unless you provide a comment that explains something about your all-DNF entry. The hope is that this will discourage people entering DNFs for points - that is not supposed to be allowed. We will be checking all-DNF comments to make sure they seem reasonable; if they seem frivolous or meaningless, we will be removing those entries.


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## One Wheel (Feb 26, 2018)

Re: editing: if I was going to cheat I'd be more likely to enter dishonest times first, and feel remorse about cheating and put legitimate times layer, rather than the other way around. 

Official times: I competed in the forum competitions for about 6 months before I went to a competition. My only official feet record is a 3:02 single from a year and a half ago. I average about 2 minutes or a little less now. My only official 7x7 attempt is a DNF because I got a pop and finished in about 10:02. I was averaging about 7:20 at the time.

Video: my only way of recording is to prop up my phone. It's very awkward, and my times are significantly higher when I do it.

I'm mostly doing it to keep track of my own improvement anyway. It's silly to cheat, even more so when it's so easy to do: the very fact that it's easy to cheat means that the results don't really matter to anybody but the person submitting them. If it was more difficult to cheat then the results might seem like they meant more, and there would actually be more incentive to cheat.


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## Sajwo (Feb 26, 2018)

You can prove that someone is cheating, but you can not prove that someone is not cheating (unless results are slower than official ones). Just don't care too much about this Weekly Competition thing, only WCA results reflect the true potential of a speedcuber


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## cuber314159 (Feb 26, 2018)

I think it it is best to rely on honesty because if you start enforcing rules to prevent cheating that causes problems, you don't win anything for winning other than your name by a number one position that a few people read, so cheating is pretty pointless.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 26, 2018)

As one of the mulit-blind 0/2 guys, rest assured that I am not cheating. I am new to blind solving and, as you can see from my 3BLD record of weekly attempts, I'm not very good at that either. That said, simply because I'm not good at it doesn't mean I don't give it an honest attempt. I DO attempt it, but my reasons are only to push my memo ability... not to "get free points". Heck, if I wanted more points, I'd post my 20 min 7x7 solves and 45 minute square-1 times. 

For what it's worth, I'm not interested in how well I do or anyone else for that matter. As someone else suggested, I'm doing it to track my own progress and to use some of my other puzzles that would otherwise be just collecting dust. This is also why I don't bother to post comments for the most part... I'm not doing it for others entertainment. As that rule has changed, I will be sure to add appropriate comments so my DNFs "count"... or maybe I wont and I'll just have nothing for 3 BLD until I get a success. Who really cares anyway? 

I do have an opinion about official times as some indicator of cheating... I, as do others, get bad competition nerves. That has a direct impact on my official times. Sitting on my couch in my PJs isn't the same as getting on a stage with people watching. I routinely get times 4-6 seconds faster during warm-up just prior to my 3x3 solves in competition. So, official results are just that--an official result. But it in no way suggests my "limit" for performance while sitting on my couch.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 26, 2018)

We certainly want to promote a spirit of friendliness here; we don't want to act like we're heavy-handed about things. If there is very much objection to my new requirement for comments for DNF results, I would be happy to take it back out. But unfortunately we have had quite a few people entering obviously fake DNFs to boost their points, and I was hoping to cut down on that. People who try 6x6x6 or 7x7x7 BLD have felt a little cheated when other people simply entered a DNF without really trying to solve it and got the same points as someone who struggled for an hour on an attempt only to fail.

And anyway, the whole point of the online competition is to have fun and track your progress. It's really nice to have comments for BLD DNFs to indicate how the attempt went - I'd hope you might like to use the comment field for that. I know I think it's nice to be able to go back to my solves from 10 years ago and read about how I was missing attempts back then.


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## SpartanSailor (Feb 26, 2018)

I certainly feel this is a friendly place and don't think the new rule is at all heavy-handed. Perhaps I read into the initial post and series to follow something that was not there.... If there are real concerns about cheating, or somehow lessening the success of others by some that just DNF, then I have no problem with adding some reasonable steps to the weekly competition. 

As you say, this is just about fun.... and I actually keep a paper journal of my attempts for just the reason you suggest, so I can look back and see my mistakes and learn from them.


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## cubeshepherd (Feb 27, 2018)

I do not believe that there is much more I can add but I do have a quick thought: Most people that cheat are only doing it to make themselves feel better and think that they are great at event x. If you know and think about how silly that is you then recognize the pointlessness in cheating. If in the end a cheater continues to cheat and you then place rules to prevent cheating, he will still most likely find a way to bend the rules and cheat.
One of the biggest reasons that I have stuck with cubing and tried to get more involved in the cubing community is due to the honesty that almost everyone has. Yes, you will get people in the cubing community tying to appear better then they are, and you have to address that at that point, but there is no aspect in life where all people are one hundred percent honest all the time. You just have to try your hardest to be honest and set the example for others that struggle with being honest.

To quote a line from a song that I like from Tim McGraw's Humble and Kind "Don't steal, don't cheat, and don't lie, always stay humble and kind" 

Just so you are aware the original song is from Lori Mckenna, but Tim's version I like better.


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## tnk351 (Apr 24, 2018)

Nikhil Soares said:


> For the b) part, there is still a solution - maximum 5% time drop could be accepted in comparison with official WCA timings.


Well, that sucks.
My WCA average is 26 seconds (because i'm too nervous) and my current average is 17 seconds.


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## Dancing Jules (Apr 24, 2018)

Nikhil Soares said:


> For the b) part, there is still a solution - maximum 5% time drop could be accepted in comparison with official WCA timings.



At my first and so far only 3x3 comp (last November) I averaged 44.xx seconds. Now I am sub30.


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## RedJack22 (Apr 24, 2018)

My dad says that "locks are for honest people." This means that only honest people care if a gate is locked, and he'll stay out; a burglar doesn't care and he'll break the lock. The fact is, which it's unfortunate that people might be cheating, I would hope that their conscience would be convicting them that what they are doing is wrong


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