# M2/R2 Questions:



## byu (Jan 30, 2009)

I have a few questions about the M2/R2 blindcubing method:

1. What do I do if there are edges and corners flipped but in the correct position in the beginning?

2. What do I do if a cycle for example begins with FU and ends with UF, or begins with BUR and ends with URB?

3. What are some tips for memorizing setup moves?

4. What memorization method is best for M2/R2?


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## happa95 (Jan 30, 2009)

1. You have to remember them in the beginning and then flip then like you would in 3OP. Of course, you could just shoot to both stickers of that edge. Also, if there is only 1 flipped edge, DF will be flipped at the end of the solve as well.
2. That's supposed to happen. Just keep going.
3. First, see exactly how each setup gets the piece to UB. Then, you can practice it just like any other alg: by muscle memory.
4. Anything works. Whatever you were using for classic Pochmann will be just as good here as there is no difference to the memo, except for M-slice edges when the centers are flipped. I recommend memorizing in pairs with letters.


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## tim (Jan 30, 2009)

3. Don't do it.
4. Define best.


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## byu (Jan 30, 2009)

happa95 said:


> 1. You have to remember them in the beginning and then flip then like you would in 3OP. Of course, you could just shoot to both stickers of that edge. Also, if there is only 1 flipped edge, DF will be flipped at the end of the solve as well.



Um, what if there is an odd flipped corner?



happa95 said:


> 2. That's supposed to happen. Just keep going.



Will I have to flip it at the end or something?

Thanks for the help though.


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## flee135 (Jan 30, 2009)

1. When you finish all the other cycles, you should end up with one or two corners that need to be corrected. Just flip the corners at the end.

2. If that happens, it means there is one edge on the puzzle that is flipped. Just flip those at the end.


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## happa95 (Jan 30, 2009)

byu said:


> happa95 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. You have to remember them in the beginning and then flip then like you would in 3OP. Of course, you could just shoot to both stickers of that edge. Also, if there is only 1 flipped edge, DF will be flipped at the end of the solve as well.
> ...



For #1, I can't help you because I still use pochmann corners. I don't like R2. 

For #2, well, if it's at UF, then unless you know an algorithm/commutator for FU, you will have to shoot to UF both at the beginning of the cycle and at the end. Then, if you have no flipped edges, or an even amount of flipped edges, just flip UF and DF. If you had an odd number, then flip the other pieces along with UF, and just forget about flipping DF.

EDIT: seems I was a bit late.


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## flee135 (Jan 30, 2009)

happa95 said:


> For #2, well, if it's at UF, then unless you know an algorithm/commutator for FU, you will have to shoot to UF both at the beginning of the cycle and at the end. Then, if you have no flipped edges, or an even amount of flipped edges, just flip UF and DF. If you had an odd number, then flip the other pieces along with UF, and just forget about flipping DF.
> 
> EDIT: seems I was a bit late.


I don't think you'll ever have to flip UF and DF.


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## byu (Jan 30, 2009)

flee135 said:


> happa95 said:
> 
> 
> > For #2, well, if it's at UF, then unless you know an algorithm/commutator for FU, you will have to shoot to UF both at the beginning of the cycle and at the end. Then, if you have no flipped edges, or an even amount of flipped edges, just flip UF and DF. If you had an odd number, then flip the other pieces along with UF, and just forget about flipping DF.
> ...



Why? I understand how to do M2/R2 completely except for this stuff about orientation of pieces. That, I am completely clueless about. Especially corners, since there are three possible orientations instead of 2.


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## happa95 (Jan 30, 2009)

flee135 said:


> happa95 said:
> 
> 
> > For #2, well, if it's at UF, then unless you know an algorithm/commutator for FU, you will have to shoot to UF both at the beginning of the cycle and at the end. Then, if you have no flipped edges, or an even amount of flipped edges, just flip UF and DF. If you had an odd number, then flip the other pieces along with UF, and just forget about flipping DF.
> ...



If you had no other flipped edges, then yes, you will. This is because UF will be the only flipped edge which will mean that DF will be flipped. After all, wasn't there a rule that there can't be only one flipped edge? (correct me I'm wrong)

EDIT: sorry if I'm confusing you at all, byu. I'm trying my best to explain it well. I might be wrong about what I'm saying. However, I know it works for me.


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## flee135 (Jan 30, 2009)

happa95 said:


> flee135 said:
> 
> 
> > happa95 said:
> ...



That's strange. I have been using M2 for over half a year, but I've never run into this case. I'm not sure how this could happen, either, unless UF was flipped to begin with? You should have solved UF while solving all the other pieces as well.



byu said:


> I understand how to do M2/R2 completely except for this stuff about orientation of pieces. That, I am completely clueless about. Especially corners, since there are three possible orientations instead of 2.



I don't use R2, but I believe that if you end with your corner oriented incorrectly, there should be other corners that are incorrectly oriented as well. Just flip all of those together. If that is not the case, then something is wrong with your memo. For M2, it's the same thing. There should be another edge that needs to be flipped. If not, then your memo is wrong.


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## happa95 (Jan 30, 2009)

flee135 said:


> happa95 said:
> 
> 
> > flee135 said:
> ...



Maybe we're just confused as to what the other person is saying.  I was talking about if he had to shoot to FU.


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## flee135 (Jan 30, 2009)

happa95 said:


> Maybe we're just confused as to what the other person is saying.  I was talking about if he had to shoot to FU.



Yeah, I think we were talking about different things. I think byu used UF/FU as an example, saying that if he shot to UF, and then later FU. In that case, the buffer edge would be flipped, which will either be fixed by continuing with different cycles or by flipping a piece that was already flipped in the beginning.


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## Ellis (Jan 30, 2009)

Why are you trying to learn R2 if you don't understand M2. Old pochmann corners are fine. R2 is difficult because of how many corners are on the R slice. M2 is nice because there are only 3 edges besides the buffer in the M slice. I'd say stick to classic pochmann for corners now while you're learning M2, and then decide if you want to switch to R2. If you learn 2 more algorithms for corners, LFB -> FDR and RDF, then the maximum setup moves for any classic pochmann corner becomes 1.


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## byu (Jan 30, 2009)

OK, so I'll work on M2 for edges and stick with classic pochmann for corners. That simplifies things a lot. Thanks for the help all of you!


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## happa95 (Jan 30, 2009)

byu said:


> OK, so I'll work on M2 for edges and stick with classic pochmann for corners. That simplifies things a lot. Thanks for the help all of you!



Or, better idea: Learn TuRBo with me!!!! We'll be like the only TuRBo edge users! woot woot!


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## byu (Jan 30, 2009)

Do you know any TuRBo guides that I can follow? Good ones?


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## happa95 (Jan 30, 2009)

byu said:


> Do you know any TuRBo guides that I can follow? Good ones?



indeed I do: http://erikku.110mb.com/Tedges.html
Learning Turbo really isn't learning a method. I could easily get a solve with TuRBo right now. It's just you have to get used to it. Once you're used to all 1xx different setup combinations, it will get really fast. Also, it is an amazingly big step towards freestyle.


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## byu (Jan 30, 2009)

So, my possibilities are as follows, I'd like some suggestions:

Stick with classic pochmann
M2 edges, R2 corners
M2 edges, classic pochmann corners
Turbo edges, classic pochmann corners
Full Turbo


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## happa95 (Jan 30, 2009)

byu said:


> So, my possibilities are as follows, I'd like some suggestions:
> 
> Stick with classic pochmann
> M2 edges, R2 corners
> ...



I'm sure you've heard enough feedback from me but I would say that full turbo COULD be the fastest if you practiced a lot. However that would take a heck of a lot of practice so I'll say Turbo edges, pochmann corners. Are you using Erik's other two algs for pochmann corners?


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## Ellis (Jan 30, 2009)

I think personal blindfold methods should be a progression. Don't jump into anything that's really confusing or that has a difficult execution. I haven't looked too much into TuRBo, but even if I had I think I'd still give the same answer. My suggestion - stick with classic pochmann edges and corners until you are pretty comfortable with them both and can get a decent rate of successful solves. Then learn M2, sticking with classic pochmann corners. From there you can decide if you want to switch to R2 or TuRBo. 

You want something thats going to give you good results (success). If you're learning something because it's what you think would be fastest, but you aren't understanding it, then you're just going to get fast DNF's. The difficult blindfold methods become easier if you're good at blindfold solving first.


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## martijn_cube (Feb 3, 2009)

does anybody know an alg to switch 4 centers? 
to switch white/yellow and orange/red. and these are there opposites.

edit: i found it with cube explorer: M E2 M' E2

edit: i'm trying to find a way to get rid of the UF/DB switch part with the M2 method. Because when memoing the cube now, i have to remember if its odd or even. But i want to memo like UF alway's goes to UF. But i think that's pretty hard to do with M2. it could save alot of thinking time. Does anyone know something to get rid of this?


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## tim (Feb 3, 2009)

martijn_cube said:


> edit: i'm trying to find a way to get rid of the UF/DB switch part with the M2 method. Because when memoing the cube now, i have to remember if its odd or even. But i want to memo like UF alway's goes to UF. But i think that's pretty hard to do with M2. it could save alot of thinking time. Does anyone know something to get rid of this?



You can get rid of this. Just use any kind of 3-cycles for the UF/DB + the next/previous pieces.


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## kickinwing2112 (Feb 3, 2009)

hmm, these are questions i was going to ask.


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## blah (Feb 4, 2009)

tim said:


> martijn_cube said:
> 
> 
> > edit: i'm trying to find a way to get rid of the UF/DB switch part with the M2 method. Because when memoing the cube now, i have to remember if its odd or even. But i want to memo like UF alway's goes to UF. But i think that's pretty hard to do with M2. it could save alot of thinking time. Does anyone know something to get rid of this?
> ...



http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71157&postcount=67
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=72025&postcount=68
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=72146&postcount=72
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=72149&postcount=73

The third and fourth links are pretty irrrelevant, I just thought you might like to have a couple of different ideas


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## martijn_cube (Feb 4, 2009)

thanks.
But i might stick with normal M2 for now. because after benelux open i want to switch to freestyle. so maybe it's not really worth to learn something new now.


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