# A new class of oil for cubes



## rasiel (Feb 11, 2015)

I wanted to make the announcement here that we're now shipping a new class of oil that has never been commercially offered before for cubing (that I know of). 

As you know most cubing oil falls into one of two camps: silicones and petroleum distillates. The silicones work well but tend to dry out soon and are expensive. The petroleum distillates (vaseline, Jig-a-loo, differential oil, etc.) are good too except they tend to damage the plastic. A minority have used other oil types (cooking oil? bacon grease?? lol) but these are the two main types at the moment.

T-Minus One oil is a new blend composed of two high-tech lubricants, PFPE and molybdenum disulfide, in a base of mineral oil. PFPE (perfluoropolyether) is a synthetic oil developed by DuPont that is mainly used in aerospace engineering and vacuum pumps with similar properties to silicone oils but with the added advantage that it has a much lower vapor point meaning it doesn't "wear" away or dry out as easily. Since it's completely inert it also means that it's 100% safe for plastics. Its only disadvantage is that it's _ridiculously _expensive. Although it makes a fine lubricant on its own we found that it works even better when combined with molybdenum disulfide, a powdered dry lubricant similar to graphite (but better). The two complement each other well by lowering the effective viscosity for even longer lasting applications.

I am confident enough that anyone who regularly lubricates their cubes will find this a better alternative. To prove it I'm willing to give away some vials. I would like to make eligible those members who have posted reviews, particularly those on lubrication threads, who wouldn't mind posting a review here afterwards. If interested in trying out please respond to thread and pm me with a link to a previous review you have made as well as your shipping address.

The oil is available on Amazon and on my new cube shop Cubiteria.

Here's crossing my fingers that you will give this a shot 

Ras


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## Rocky0701 (Feb 11, 2015)

Sounds pretty promising! I would love to try it out.


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## natezach728 (Feb 11, 2015)

Just sent a PM. Would love to test this for you!


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## pdilla (Feb 11, 2015)

Dang me and not posting reviews... I'll probably just get some and review it later. 

$$

TBH, I've always wanted to try out Krytox in cubes... I think I know what I'm going to get along with my new mini Aolong...


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## JemFish (Feb 11, 2015)

Looks good.

*EDIT*: Your website looks quite...unprofessional. I don't know if it's just me, but all that showed up was HTML. There's so much competition out there (and for a small community too) that you really need to set really high standards to be noticed. The best cube company website I've seen is the Cubes4Speed website, and everything is perfect (except for some cheesy fonts). Perfection will help you and your cube shop shine, and good luck.


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## Stefan (Feb 11, 2015)

JemFish said:


> I don't know if it's just me, but all that showed up was HTML.



Might be just you. I don't see any HTML. Don't press CTRL-U.


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## JemFish (Feb 11, 2015)

Stefan said:


> Might be just you. I don't see any HTML. Don't press CTRL-U.



I don't mean the HTML text itself; just the results of HTML (and only HTML).


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## rasiel (Feb 11, 2015)

It is unprofessional. Absolutely no argument there! This project started out with me and a Boeing engineering guy looking to start a new company selling high end plastic on plastic lubricants. Although I had had a Rubik's cube back when I was a kid in the 80's I didn't put two and two right away until just a few weeks ago! Still, I guess I really should pay someone to spruce it up a bit I guess... it's not my intention to become a major puzzle shop but imagine if all I had to sell were oil tubes 

Pdilla, if you order the Aolong from me I'll be happy to throw in the oil for free! Just would ask that you post your review here.

Ras


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## JemFish (Feb 11, 2015)

rasiel said:


> It is unprofessional. Absolutely no argument there! This project started out with me and a Boeing engineering guy looking to start a new company selling high end plastic on plastic lubricants. Although I had had a Rubik's cube back when I was a kid in the 80's I didn't put two and two right away until just a few weeks ago! Still, I guess I really should pay someone to spruce it up a bit I guess... it's not my intention to become a major puzzle shop but imagine if all I had to sell were oil tubes
> 
> Pdilla, if you order the Aolong from me I'll be happy to throw in the oil for free! Just would ask that you post your review here.
> 
> Ras



I see. Maybe you could consider selling through a major puzzle shop instead, and only your lubricant. I think that'll be far better for your business, and your lubricant will get famous quickly if you sell through resellers (like Cubes4Speed). I don't know, but I do have my eyes on your lubricant! Good luck.


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## Stefan (Feb 11, 2015)

JemFish said:


> I don't mean the HTML text itself; just the results of HTML (and only HTML).



You don't see the pictures?


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## JemFish (Feb 11, 2015)

Stefan said:


> You don't see the pictures?



I do.


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## pdilla (Feb 11, 2015)

rasiel said:


> Pdilla, if you order the Aolong from me I'll be happy to throw in the oil for free! Just would ask that you post your review here.
> Ras



You don't have Mini Aolongs, unfortunately. But I'll be glad to review your lube for you if you'd like.



Stefan said:


> You don't see the pictures?



Perhaps he means that he expected at least some CSS.


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## JemFish (Feb 11, 2015)

pdilla said:


> Perhaps he means that he expected at least some CSS.



That's what I meant. (Or at least some artistic taste if he has to only use HTML.)


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## CuBouz (Feb 11, 2015)

I personally don't see any problems with his site. All the information I need in a very simple format. Keep things simple and keep cubes cheap


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## Berd (Feb 11, 2015)

I would love to test for you!


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## AlphaSheep (Feb 11, 2015)

I like the website. It means he can concentrate on good shop service rather than charging extra so he can pay a professional web developer, or even worse, spending half his time maintaining the website himself.


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## pdilla (Feb 11, 2015)

I also like _simple_ designs, but not so much _simplistic_ designs.


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## JemFish (Feb 11, 2015)

CuBouz said:


> I personally don't see any problems with his site. All the information I need in a very simple format. Keep things simple and keep cubes cheap





AlphaSheep said:


> I like the website. It means he can concentrate on good shop service rather than charging extra so he can pay a professional web developer, or even worse, spending half his time maintaining the website himself.



We shouldn't make excuses to be slack. You bring in half the customers from the pretty logo, or from the neat design, or from the amazing set-up of the store, or the sleek design of your website. I understand that things should be simple, and that he should have good shop management, but to be at the top, you can't compromise anything. But like I said, it would be better if he sold through another reseller.



pdilla said:


> I also like _simple_ designs, but not no much _simplistic_ designs.



Nice.


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## pdilla (Feb 11, 2015)

JemFish said:


> Nice.



Yay for distinctions!

But cheap prices and reliability are still more important in the end.


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## JemFish (Feb 11, 2015)

pdilla said:


> Yay for distinctions!
> 
> But cheap prices and reliability are still more important in the end.



You're right.


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## CriticalCubing (Feb 11, 2015)

I would love to review this  Lets see how it compares to my current lubrication.


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## Seanliu (Feb 11, 2015)

Wow. I really want to test this out. I will write a review on Maru Lube, WD-40 and both of them. Also, there is an error on your website: the MOYU 13x13 isn't made by ShengShou.


EDIT: PM sent. If you don't see it, here is the link.


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## Thatoneguy2 (Feb 11, 2015)

Sounds awesome! I've always wanted see a better lube try to be created, can't wait for the reviews.


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## StachuK1992 (Feb 11, 2015)

There a lot of big words in that post, OP. And as everyone knows, Big words = great product!!


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## ketchuphater999 (Feb 11, 2015)

Seanliu said:


> the MOYU 13x13 isn't made by ShengShou.



lol
how did that get on there?


anyway, I would probably try this out on my own, but with my money I think it's best that I wait until someone's made a review. And also, you can make a nice looking website with even less effort using a web design software like sandvox(the demo should be good enough for you).


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## rasiel (Feb 11, 2015)

Just wanted to say thank you for all the well-qualified PM's received and the notes of encouragement posted on the thread. I think we have enough reviewers for now.

I also wanted to note that the first round of oil bottles are kind of stiff so squeezing isn't all that easy. I find it easier to just unscrew the vial and with a little brush paint the surfaces of the cubies and core. You can try the couple of drops in the cracks and let it dribble in method too but that's messier 

Ras


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## JemFish (Feb 12, 2015)

Yay! Looks like this lubricant is going to be good...


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## dan41 (Feb 12, 2015)

rasiel said:


> cubing oil falls into one of two camps: silicones and petroleum distillates.



false.
you forgot the incredibly cheap and far better syncolon ptfe:

http://www.homedepot.ca/produit/tube-3-onces-graisse-synthetique-avec-syncolon-ptfe/849414


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## rasiel (Feb 12, 2015)

Have you actually tried it on a cube?

One would *think* that Teflon (PTFE) would be the perfect lubricant but in practice it is a poor choice for plastic on plastic applications. Teflon is great at keeping stuff from sticking to it with the exception of.... other things made of Teflon! When two objects are coated with Teflon and allowed to come to rest the two form a weak bond. A bond, of course, is exactly the opposite of what you want a lubricant to do. Once you break the bond the two parts slide past each other really well but while standing they're a little sticky. If you coated your cube in Teflon you would find it had an annoying stickiness every time you stopped turning. This is due to Teflon having a higher static coefficient of friction than a moving one.

For this reason DuPont, the company that invented Teflon, recommends its use in parts that are moving (and preferably moving fast). See for yourself http://www.performancelubricantsusa.com/product/multi-use-lubricant.php

Ras


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## timeless (Feb 12, 2015)

dont forget about hair gel, some thai cubers use it from what ive heard


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## Seanliu (Feb 12, 2015)

rasiel said:


> Just wanted to say thank you for all the well-qualified PM's received and the notes of encouragement posted on the thread. I think we have enough reviewers for now.
> 
> I also wanted to note that the first round of oil bottles are kind of stiff so squeezing isn't all that easy. I find it easier to just unscrew the vial and with a little brush* paint the surfaces of the cubies and core*. You can try the couple of drops in the cracks and let it dribble in method too but that's messier
> 
> Ras



Hopefully I can put that information to good use if I test it!

How to paint the core?
Take screws out and just paint them?


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## (X) (Feb 12, 2015)

timeless said:


> dont forget about hair gel, some thai cubers use it from what ive heard



Best lube I ever tried


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## Seanliu (Feb 12, 2015)

(X) said:


> Best lube I ever tried



Lolwut.

Try Bacon grease then WD-40 then top it off with Maru lube. Now put Superglue. Boom. 

(May render cube unusable.)


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## ySoSrs (Feb 12, 2015)

> The silicones work well but tend to dry out soon and are expensive.


What?  Differential oils typically sell for about $0.1 per ml, that's not expensive, that's just cheap. The "ridiculously expensive" PFPE only costs about $0.80 per ml (even in a small quantity such as 0.5 kg instead of 20 kg: link). The product that you are proposing here costs $2.8 per ml, if $0.80 per ml is "ridiculously expensive", then what should I call this? Even the overpriced Maru lube only costs $0.5 to $0.2 per ml.

I can hardly imagine the improvement of either the lubrication itself or the time it takes to dry out is so big that it justifies this price difference, but that's of course just my opinion. Who knows, this might just be the holy grail of cube lube.


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## dan41 (Feb 13, 2015)

rasiel said:


> Have you actually tried it on a cube?
> 
> One would *think* that Teflon (PTFE) would be the perfect lubricant but in practice it is a poor choice for plastic on plastic applications. Teflon is great at keeping stuff from sticking to it with the exception of.... other things made of Teflon! When two objects are coated with Teflon and allowed to come to rest the two form a weak bond. A bond, of course, is exactly the opposite of what you want a lubricant to do. Once you break the bond the two parts slide past each other really well but while standing they're a little sticky. If you coated your cube in Teflon you would find it had an annoying stickiness every time you stopped turning. This is due to Teflon having a higher static coefficient of friction than a moving one.
> 
> ...



Yes I use it regularly on all older cubes for which the original lube is gone, or for non pre-lubed ones.

This is not the dry dupont teflon spray (which is really slow and not sticking by the way, I tried it);
This is not about teflon "coating" either.

This is about a silicon grease (not dripping viscous) with teflon molecules in the mix (as far as I can understand).I would say it exceeds vaseline performance while giving a similar feel, but without the harm to the plastic.

It is designed explicitly for plastic parts. There is no guess in that choice, it is not an experiment like hair gel or what else...


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## NewCuber000 (Feb 13, 2015)

Wait, did you say differential oil has negative effects on your cubes? The most I've ever heard happening to people using Differential was parts of the plastic inside the cube getting a bit discoloured or something. And I wouldn't care about that, I don't look inside my cube while solving  Jigaloo on the other hand melts the plastic if you do it wrong, but I have a method to it and I've been using it for like 3 months now with no problems. (I ruined my 2x2 before perfecting the use of Jigaloo)


This lube you're talking about (Although overpriced) seems pretty good the way you're talking about it. But Im probably just going to stick with the 30K differential oil thats on it's way to my house atm


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## Rubiks560 (Feb 14, 2015)

I have this coming. I'll review it when I get it.


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## pdilla (Feb 14, 2015)

I just received the lube. Review will come soon (Valentine's Day with the wife first, )

EDIT -----

Feb 14, 2014:
A quick review, since I have time.

*BEFORE YOU CLICK THE REVIEW*.

If you are planning on reviewing this lube yourself, please don't read my review of it yet. I would like to see what you think about this lube _without_ any influence or priming from a prior review. 

Just an experiment,
Thanks.



Spoiler: Quick Review



This review is for T-Minus One from Cubiteria.

First off, OP didn't send this to me for review. I bought this lube with my own money. 

I didn't use the website for checkout, but used Amazon instead. That being said, the package was shipped the very next day and the package arrived two days later. Priority envelope inside of another priority envelope. Not the best padding, but it didn't really matter as I'll explain.

The bottle that the lube came is *tough*. It has a low chance of being simply smooshed, but that strength is also its drawback. It's hard to squeeze. Good luck doing careful, controlled applications with this bottle. I would think about purchasing a separate syringe for applications.

The lube itself is graphite grey. There appears to be some demulsification between a clear oil and a grey matter. A good shake prior to application will help this. The lube is fairly runny so keep towels around. Also, I'm not sure how well this will work for white cubes, as staining occurs.





_Notice the grey staining_

I've applied the T-Minus One to an *AoLong v2*.

As for how the cube resulted in performing and feeling...



The cube is a bit _sluggish_ at first, like many first applications of lube. After a bit of breaking in I immediately noticed a distinct change in the cube's _sound_. That is, that high pitched clickiness that my cube had, whilst lubed by a bit of Traxxas, is gone. A muffled and duller clacking sound has replaced it. 

The muffled sound came paired with a very _padded_ feel. I'm not sure how else to describe it. I can feel an almost rubbery substance between the pieces that sort of _smoothes out_ the collisions of the pieces. The cube has a new smoothed out feel overall. 

A good way to describe it is like this; think about having a rock in each hand and clacking them together. Feel that tactile sensation? Good. Now imagine the rocks had a cloth between them while hitting each other. A distinct drop in _impact_. 

The lube also has a tendency to find it's way out of the cube and onto the surface of your stickers. I didn't use very much, but the leakage still happens. Some hot water on a paper towel, then a quick wipe with a dry towel does the trick though, which I am surprised at since PFPE typically requires special removal chemicals due to it's high resistance to organic solvents. I guess the mixture of oils helps.

All in all, an interesting lube. I'm not sure what I think of it yet. I'll break in the lube a bit more and play around with the cube for a while more before posting up a *full* video review and posting it to this thread.

Thanks.



Full video review coming soon...


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## ender9994 (Feb 14, 2015)

pdilla said:


> I just received the lube. Review will come soon (Valentine's Day with the wife first, )



Perhaps you could also give a quick summary about your interaction with this new cube shop. Let us know how easy check out was, how long items took to be shipped out, and how long shipping took/method of shipping. This would allow potential customers to decide if they want to purchase from this store. 

-Doug


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## pdilla (Feb 14, 2015)

Review posted in above post.


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## confusedcuber (Feb 15, 2015)

Anyway to get it outside the US?


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## Berd (Feb 15, 2015)

confusedcuber said:


> Anyway to get it outside the US?


I'm meant to be testing it and I'm in the UK.


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## confusedcuber (Feb 15, 2015)

Berd said:


> I'm meant to be testing it and I'm in the UK.




Me too, but both amazon and the guys site said US only. Ill wait for ur review and see if u get it i guess.


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## Seanliu (Feb 15, 2015)

After looking at the website, the main thing I'm concerned about is its price: it is a little pricy for $14, and it could have a lifetime like Maru Lube, although I doubt it. So I take out every screw, put a few drops on every screw, and put them back in, assemble, pop a piece out and then put a few drops on the piece, then break in? 

TY for reading


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## Seanliu (Feb 15, 2015)

confusedcuber said:


> Anyway to get it outside the US?



In Taiwan, and maybe it will arrive in a few days (or weeks xD). Thanks for sending to me!


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## pdilla (Feb 16, 2015)

Seanliu said:


> After looking at the website, the main thing I'm concerned about is its price: it is a little pricy for $14, and it could have a lifetime like Maru Lube, although I doubt it. So I take out every screw, put a few drops on every screw, and put them back in, assemble, pop a piece out and then put a few drops on the piece, then break in?
> 
> TY for reading



Right, I just used it like I'd use any ol' lube. Lube the core, screws, washers, pieces, etc.


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## Seanliu (Feb 16, 2015)

pdilla said:


> Right, I just used it like I'd use any ol' lube. Lube the core, screws, washers, pieces, etc.



You got yours already? I don't even know where mine is xD


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## Ihasdapie (Feb 16, 2015)

I can help test if it isnt too late XD
anyway really intrested in how this will turn out! Ive alwasys liked the feel of a 2 year old rubiks brand lubed with vaseline for some reason....


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## pdilla (Feb 16, 2015)

Seanliu said:


> You got yours already? I don't even know where mine is xD



Yep I already posted a review. Here it is again for those who missed it on the last page:

*BEFORE YOU CLICK THE REVIEW*.

If you are planning on reviewing this lube yourself, please don't read my review of it yet. I would like to see what you think about this lube _without_ any influence or priming from a prior review. 

Just an experiment,
Thanks.



Spoiler: Quick Review



This review is for T-Minus One from Cubiteria.

First off, OP didn't send this to me for review. I bought this lube with my own money. 

I didn't use the website for checkout, but used Amazon instead. That being said, the package was shipped the very next day and the package arrived two days later. Priority envelope inside of another priority envelope. Not the best padding, but it didn't really matter as I'll explain.

The bottle that the lube came is *tough*. It has a low chance of being simply smooshed, but that strength is also its drawback. It's hard to squeeze. Good luck doing careful, controlled applications with this bottle. I would think about purchasing a separate syringe for applications.

The lube itself is graphite grey. There appears to be some demulsification between a clear oil and a grey matter. A good shake prior to application will help this. The lube is fairly runny so keep towels around. Also, I'm not sure how well this will work for white cubes, as staining occurs.






_Notice the grey staining_

I've applied the T-Minus One to an *AoLong v2*.

As for how the cube resulted in performing and feeling...



The cube is a bit _sluggish_ at first, like many first applications of lube. After a bit of breaking in I immediately noticed a distinct change in the cube's _sound_. That is, that high pitched clickiness that my cube had, whilst lubed by a bit of Traxxas, is gone. A muffled and duller clacking sound has replaced it. 

The muffled sound came paired with a very _padded_ feel. I'm not sure how else to describe it. I can feel an almost rubbery substance between the pieces that sort of _smoothes out_ the collisions of the pieces. The cube has a new smoothed out feel overall. 

A good way to describe it is like this; think about having a rock in each hand and clacking them together. Feel that tactile sensation? Good. Now imagine the rocks had a cloth between them while hitting each other. A distinct drop in _impact_. 

The lube also has a tendency to find it's way out of the cube and onto the surface of your stickers. I didn't use very much, but the leakage still happens. Some hot water on a paper towel, then a quick wipe with a dry towel does the trick though, which I am surprised at since PFPE typically requires special removal chemicals due to it's high resistance to organic solvents. I guess the mixture of oils helps.

All in all, an interesting lube. I'm not sure what I think of it yet. I'll break in the lube a bit more and play around with the cube for a while more before posting up a *full* video review and posting it to this thread.

Thanks.



Full video review coming soon...


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## Lchu613 (Feb 16, 2015)

Interesting review, pdilla
Wonder how this one's going to turn out


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## Seanliu (Feb 17, 2015)

pdilla said:


> Yep I already posted a review. Here it is again for those who missed it on the last page:
> 
> *BEFORE YOU CLICK THE REVIEW*.
> 
> ...



Dat temptation......


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## pdilla (Feb 22, 2015)

Finally got around to doing a video review. Heck, it's not like I said much in the review that I didn't already say, but here you go.






EDIT---
The video is up.


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## Lchu613 (Feb 26, 2015)

How's the turnspeed as compared to Traxxas?


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## pdilla (Feb 27, 2015)

About the same. It gives a bit of a slower, controlled feel. Although it isn't _sticky_ like how 50k is.


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## NTCuber (Mar 3, 2015)

[video=youtube_share;KtTY7cK4jCU]http://youtu.be/KtTY7cK4jCU[/video]

Alright, I came up with my final thoughts on this oil. Attached is my video review and I hope this helps. Overall decent lube, not too awesome but isn't bad either. Probably end up buying more for a friend. Thanks again Ras!


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## Seanliu (Mar 6, 2015)

Review finally up. Came 2 days ago!

Review.


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## Lchu613 (Mar 7, 2015)

So it's a core lube, not for the pieces?


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## pdilla (Mar 8, 2015)

Lchu613 said:


> So it's a core lube, not for the pieces?



It immediately eliminates any and all spring noise, that's for sure.


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## NTCuber (Mar 8, 2015)

Lchu613 said:


> So it's a core lube, not for the pieces?



Well, I used it as both. I have got to update my description because now on my Yuxin it's not fast but it has this gummy feeling. My Guanlong doesn't have a gummy feeling but it's fast. I guess I can say others should definitely try out this lube.


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## Rubiks560 (Mar 16, 2015)

My review.


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## cashis (Mar 16, 2015)

hey chris, I think it's "T one" not "T minus one" 
edit: just kidding, I'm dumb


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## pdilla (Mar 16, 2015)

Rasiel, what do you think about PFPE and various silicone lubricants for the product?


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