# Vasseline Theory. Please leave feedback.



## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

Ok, well as I'm sure you all know, vasseline "eats" you cube. Well I want to know what facts people have to show for this idea. The only even consiterable evidence is that there is tons of black gunk in the cube. But this black gunk is just plastic dust produced by breaking in the cube, whether the vasseline is there or not. The vasseline just acts as a "glue" to hold the plastic dustm becuase it has no where else to go. The cube gets loose over time because it has to move more than just internals, like putting sand in, it presses the parts apart stretching the springs and breaking it in. Just some food for thought. I find silicone will always be better, but just an idea that I thnk has some probablity behind it.


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

The reason vaseline is bad for cubes is because it has petroleum in it, which eats away at the plastic. This is also why WD-40 is bad for cubes.


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## CubesOfTheWorld (May 23, 2010)

It's a good theory.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> The reason vaseline is bad for cubes is because it has petroleum in it, which eats away at the plastic. This is also why WD-40 is bad for cubes.




What proves this? So far the gunk which I've explained above. And people say it does, That doesnt make it true.


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

you could try taking some random edge (not from you fav. cube, of course  )
and put some vaseline on it. Then update us again in 1-4 weeks.


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## radmin (May 23, 2010)

I put it in a store bought and left it in a year. I wiped it out and put in jigaloo. The cube is not ruined by any means.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

dillonbladez said:


> you could try taking some random edge (not from you fav. cube, of course  )
> and put some vaseline on it. Then update us again in 1-4 weeks.



Ive done this, I put some in an edge (Gob) and on an edge, in a thin layer, and left them to set. When i cleaned them off there was nothing, no dust, and no thining of plastic. I did this for about 2 1/2 weeks,


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## Daniel Wu (May 23, 2010)

radmin said:


> I put it in a store bought and left it in a year. I wiped it out and put in jigaloo. The cube is not ruined by any means.


That's pretty much what I did too (except I used CRC instead)p


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## jackdexter75 (May 23, 2010)

Why don't you just try it yourself? I did and I ruined two Ghost Hands and Type C( don't know which gen) diy. So I say the theory is well backed up.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

jackdexter75 said:


> Why don't you just try it yourself? I did and I ruined two Ghost Hands and Type C( don't know which gen) diy. So I say the theory is well backed up.



If your talking to me, I did, and had no negative affects, however i dont put it in DIYs unless its like a Type B.


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## JeffDelucia (May 23, 2010)

It is a fact that petroleum dissolves plastic. The only cubes I've ever broken have been lubed with Vaseline.


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## Portponky (May 23, 2010)

I recently found some old cubes that have had vaseline in them for about 15 years. I cleaned them out and they were fine. The black gunk is, as you say, just the regular dust caused by friction mixed with the vaseline.

I use generous amounts of vaseline on my cubes and they do not melt or get eaten away by it. I have used it on Rubik's brand, some Type Cs, an Alpha F-II and a slew of other puzzles for many months on end.

I am confused by this supposed "petroleum dissolves plastic" thing. Plastic is made of petroleum. Vaseline comes in a plastic tub. If it dissolved plastic, it would not be a good substance to put on your hands. The label of a tub I have nearby doesn't warn about it being dangerous at all and even says it can be used "to care for babies' skin". And... it apparently has similar chemical properties to paint thinner? I don't buy that.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

JeffDelucia said:


> It is a fact that petroleum dissolves plastic. The only cubes I've ever broken have been lubed with Vaseline.



Vasseline is not in fact a permanant lube, as I said, it adds more volume and allows for the cubes springs and screws to loosen, like putting in sand. Your supposed to clean it out.


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

radmin said:


> I put it in a store bought and left it in a year. I wiped it out and put in jigaloo. The cube is not ruined by any means.



Plenty of people put vaseline in storeboughts to break them in.


As for not melting the cube, I think the movement of the cube is what works the vaseline into the plastic and cases the damage. I had a storebought with vasline in and used it for a long time, and I must say that compared to other lubricants the amount of black dust that came out was unreal. One day the cube simply broke.

EDIT: After checking multiple sites on Google, I have determined that petroleum jelly melts latex.

Taken from Wikipedia:
"Petroleum jelly is commonly used as a personal lubricant. (Not recommended for use with condoms because it dissolves latex)."


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## jackdexter75 (May 23, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> jackdexter75 said:
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> > Why don't you just try it yourself? I did and I ruined two Ghost Hands and Type C( don't know which gen) diy. So I say the theory is well backed up.
> ...



Hmm well I wasn't that lucky.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> radmin said:
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> > I put it in a store bought and left it in a year. I wiped it out and put in jigaloo. The cube is not ruined by any means.
> ...





People use it with condoms all the time, but wiki isn't always the best source


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## qqwref (May 23, 2010)

Portponky said:


> I am confused by this supposed "petroleum dissolves plastic" thing. Plastic is made of petroleum. Vaseline comes in a plastic tub. If it dissolved plastic, it would not be a good substance to put on your hands. The label of a tub I have nearby doesn't warn about it being dangerous at all and even says it can be used "to care for babies' skin". And... it apparently has similar chemical properties to paint thinner? I don't buy that.



You say that something which dissolves plastic wouldn't be good to put on your hands. Sure? Solvents usually dissolve things because of a specific chemical property they have, and what's safe to touch has to do with an entirely different set of chemical properties. There's a plastic called PVA which will dissolve in water, and nobody would say water is harmful. Wikipedia also says that ABS (cube plastic) will dissolve in ketones (such as acetone, which is nontoxic in small amounts) and esters; these are quite large groups of chemicals. I couldn't find evidence of petroleum jelly dissolving ABS in a quick search, but that doesn't mean it doesn't do anything.

Anyway, my point is that it's wrong to think that being toxic or corrosive and being a solvent are the same. A lot of chemistry is due to interactions on the atomic level, and skin is microscopically totally different from inorganic materials.


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## jackdexter75 (May 23, 2010)

qqwref said:


> Portponky said:
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> > I am confused by this supposed "petroleum dissolves plastic" thing. Plastic is made of petroleum. Vaseline comes in a plastic tub. If it dissolved plastic, it would not be a good substance to put on your hands. The label of a tub I have nearby doesn't warn about it being dangerous at all and even says it can be used "to care for babies' skin". And... it apparently has similar chemical properties to paint thinner? I don't buy that.
> ...



WIN


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


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And they're idiots.


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## Samania (May 23, 2010)

Nice theory. From my experiences, you read my mind.


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## ElderKingpin (May 23, 2010)

vaseline is only bad if you physically turn after you put in the Vaseline, because that oil acts like a blocker to the cube and every time you turn you push your plastic through it, and it seems to shave off plastic


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## blade740 (May 23, 2010)

I know from personal experience. I used vaseline in a cube once and within a week a center piece had been eaten through to the point that it pulled off of the core (and the screw!)


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## Hadley4000 (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> Boxcarcrzy12 said:
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Exactly. Some people do heroin, and it doesn't always kill them. Does that mean sites are wrong that have said it's deadly?

I say this all the time about various things. Just because it has worked before does not mean it's a good idea.


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> radmin said:
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> > *"Petroleum jelly is commonly used as a personal lubricant. (Not recommended for use with condoms because it dissolves latex)."*
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## Weston (May 23, 2010)

CubesOfTheWorld said:


> It's a good theory.







Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> riffz said:
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blade740 said:


> I know from personal experience...




This keeps reminding me of a religion discussion. lol


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## Mr.Toad (May 23, 2010)

I put it in my store bought for 7 months. After a year, the cube is perfectly fine


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## Tomk (May 23, 2010)

My first cube which had had vasseline in (for about a year) broke and due to the eating away at cubes theory I guessed that it had been weakened by vasseline. However it was really old, had been overused, and what broke it was falling 4ft onto a hard surface.


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## UnstoppableWalnut (May 23, 2010)

ABS plastic has "excellent" chemical resistance to petroleum jelly.
The Acetone in CRC Silicone Spray would give you more problems.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> Boxcarcrzy12 said:
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Again, my main point was that wiki isnt always the best source.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

Tomk said:


> My first cube which had had vasseline in (for about a year) broke and due to the eating away at cubes theory I guessed that it had been weakened by vasseline. However it was really old, had been overused, and what broke it was falling 4ft onto a hard surface.



I dropped mine in the lunch room, not even 3 feet and the core snapped off.


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## JeffDelucia (May 23, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> Tomk said:
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> > My first cube which had had vasseline in (for about a year) broke and due to the eating away at cubes theory I guessed that it had been weakened by vasseline. However it was really old, had been overused, and what broke it was falling 4ft onto a hard surface.
> ...



Yeah in my experience it doesn't actually melt the thing to a puddle but it weakens it and eventually the core just breaks.


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## Stefan (May 23, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> Again, my main point was that wiki isnt always the best source.



Show a better one disagreeing with it about this or shut up.


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## Sharkretriver (May 23, 2010)

had a storebought cube, sprayed a lot of 3-in-1 silicone which is actually by wd40 without knowing  it felt horrible, doesn't speed up your cube until after 2-weeks, and even then it sucks. Disassembled my 3X3 a few months later for making a video cuz i was bored, the plastic had cracks
I tried to fix the damage using a heck lot of jig-a-loo, didn't really work, but still ok, the cracks are still there:fp


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## MiloD (May 23, 2010)

I think several samples of ABS plastic that have been treated with Vaseline and WD40 over various durations should be stress tested. It's the only way to know for sure. Unfortunately I no longer have access to a lab so some other mech e. should do it!


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## Stefan (May 23, 2010)

Sharkretriver said:


> sprayed a lot of 3-in-1 silicone which is actually by wd40 without knowing



Yeah, don't put the company in your cube.


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## Sharkretriver (May 23, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> Sharkretriver said:
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I stopped using it as soon as I found out, luckily, It didn't get into any one of my main cubes


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## nck (May 23, 2010)

a few weeks back , i got out my storebought i use to play with a year ago and cleaned it out. apparently it had Vaseline in it for more than 9month but i found no problem with it whatsoever. i cleaned it and relubed with crc and now its very speedy(still cant cut corners:fp)

my guess is that different types of plastic react to Vaseline differently.(just like how some people experience fI deteriorating with crc) but yeah,this is only a guess

EDIT:it should be obvious but you should only put vaseline in small amouts onto the core instead of applying it onto edges


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


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Don't try to discredit my sources when you don't have any.


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## zachtastic (May 23, 2010)

I have 4 storebought cubes, 2 given to me, 2 purchased, all received new. I will give you a brief description of the four.

1. vaseline+sand: was beast for OH for several months. the cube *was* fast and loose to the point it cut corners quite well. However, a few years it has become so loose and slow (core/spring degradation possibly?). This is even with cleaning and no other lube.

2. vaseline: cuts corners fairly well, doesn't lock up that much, but it has no potential to be fast. Has a weird smooth, dirty feeling despite being cleaned.

3. forcibly broke in: Hard to turn, locks, no cutting. Sucks!

4. forcibly broke in+CRC: Easy to to turn, easier to recover from locks, cuts decently.

Petroleum distillates seem to "melt" the plastic, basically diminishing the quality of the plastic. That would explain the nasty smooth feeling. Vaseline leaves a residue and doesn't wash off easily so I would think that it'd continue to produce that "eating away" effect. 

Regardless, this is just my experience with vaseline. I can't sub-15 with #1, and 2 because they are so loose and slow, but I have gotten 14s with #4, and sub-20 with #3. 

Some people on this forum have noted using vaseline to break in their cubes, cleaning and switching to silicone, with positive results. But, these people tend to barely sub-40, skewing the results.

BTW, you misspelled "Vasseline". It should read, "Vaseline".


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> Boxcarcrzy12 said:
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> > Again, my main point was that wiki isnt always the best source.
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Well anyone can edit a wikipedia. And there haven't been any "Studies" or ideas on this. Just this one. Thats why I posted it, to get opinions, and see your guys' personal expirences. Thanks for the feedback


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


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Im not, but I've seen negative (inccorect) things on wiki, and nobodys done the study or research on this. And you said it melts latex. It's not that it melts it, but increases the friction in thin things like latex. While a cube is thicker and more durable than a condom.


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## UnstoppableWalnut (May 23, 2010)

I've yet to see a cube made out of condoms.

But Mineral oil degrades latex
http://www.walnet.org/csis/med_research/oilstudy.html


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## Stefan (May 23, 2010)

Sharkretriver said:


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I suspect you misunderstood me. Not that I'm surprised.



Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> StefanPochmann said:
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Yes, everyone can edit wikipedia. So what? It's not like everyone's a moron like the morons themselves apparently think, there's tons of good people working on it and it's pretty good. And are you seriously saying there haven't been any "studies" on petroleum jelly dissolving latex? Looks like you are, as you agreed with the other part of the wikipedia quote.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> Sharkretriver said:
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I was talking about the study of vasseline on abs plastic.


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## Stefan (May 23, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> People use it with condoms all the time, but wiki isn't always the best source





Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> was talking about the study of vasseline on abs plastic.


Sure you were. Cause condoms are made out of ABS.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> Boxcarcrzy12 said:
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That was saying that wiki isnt always the best, but the study was of vasseline on ABS. But havent you ever tried it? Any negative results? (im talking about on ABS, not condoms)


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## Chapuunka (May 23, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> (im talking about on ABS, not condoms)



Seems like a weird conversation when you have to clarify if you're talking about cubes or condoms.


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## Micael (May 23, 2010)

You would answer best your question by opening an organic chemistry book. You should find the theory there. Both plastic and vaseline are produced from petroleum and there can be chemical affinity between them.


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> Im not, but I've seen negative (inccorect) things on wiki, and *nobodys done the study or research on this*. And you said it melts latex. It's not that it melts it, but increases the friction in thin things like latex. While a cube is thicker and more durable than a condom.



I don't know where you're getting these claims from, but I'm pretty sure companies that manufacture condoms don't just pull random precautionary warnings out of their ass.


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## Micael (May 23, 2010)

Also, keep in mind that there are different kind of plastic. That could explain (though I am not sure) why people are reporting opposite effect (do nothing - do damage) of vaseline on their cube.


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

Micael said:


> Also, keep in mind that there are different kind of plastic. That could explain (though I am not sure) why people are reporting opposite effect (do nothing - do damage) of vaseline on their cube.



The general trend seems to be that storeboughts can handle it while most DIYs cannot. However, like I said before, vaseline killed my storebought after a few months of use so I'm not entirely sure what to think.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> Micael said:
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> > Also, keep in mind that there are different kind of plastic. That could explain (though I am not sure) why people are reporting opposite effect (do nothing - do damage) of vaseline on their cube.
> ...



Agreed, ive seen vaseline in a DIY, but it made it difficult to turn because the cube turns pretty good already, but the vasseline is just somthing for the cube to push throguh in the case of a DIY


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> Boxcarcrzy12 said:
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> > Im not, but I've seen negative (inccorect) things on wiki, and *nobodys done the study or research on this*. And you said it melts latex. It's not that it melts it, but increases the friction in thin things like latex. While a cube is thicker and more durable than a condom.
> ...



I'm sure they do too, but The quote in bold was meant to be about the cube, read the posts above. (All the posts)


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


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You weren't sufficiently clear about that.


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


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Sorry about that


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