# Will you pay 60 dollars for the CamCuber Zhanchi?



## TomWood (Jun 8, 2012)

Will you be willing to pay 60 dollars for the new CamCuber ZhanChi? 

[youtubehd]bgRJx0XRSCU[/youtubehd]


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## Kirjava (Jun 8, 2012)

Without watching the video, I can say that I will not.


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## ottozing (Jun 8, 2012)

no. my 15$ zhanchi is good enough.


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## tx789 (Jun 8, 2012)

THe only puzzle I want to buy that more expensive than that it an 8x8. And the most expensive cube I've brought is a v-cube 7 I think


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## Godmil (Jun 8, 2012)

Watch the video Kir, it's like the Force Cube mk2.
It's a Zhanchi, that has been 'specially lubed' and restickered. There are no mods done, also when you first get it it's kinda slow, but you need to break it in.
I'm amazed by the audacity of this.


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## applemobile (Jun 8, 2012)

Shut up and take my money.


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## VP7 (Jun 8, 2012)

No.


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## monkeytherat (Jun 8, 2012)

$60 for a lubed ZhanChi or $20 for a lubed and modded one... Hmmmmmm...


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## mati1242 (Jun 8, 2012)

I can buy 4 brand new ZhanChi's for this money...


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## ottozing (Jun 8, 2012)

Godmil said:


> Watch the video Kir, it's like the Force Cube mk2.
> It's a Zhanchi, that has been 'specially lubed' and restickered. There are no mods done, also when you first get it it's kinda slow, but you need to break it in.
> I'm amazed by the audacity of this.



its not slow when you get it, its fully broken in when you get it according to cams vid.


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## Goosly (Jun 8, 2012)

so $60 for a $15 cube + some lube? Meh?

No.


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## god of rubic 2 (Jun 8, 2012)

Probably not..


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## lkhphuc vietnam (Jun 8, 2012)

i don't even have a zhanchi yet


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## Hippolyte!!! (Jun 8, 2012)

Is there really people who are willing to pay 60$ just for a classic 333? Oo
Could someone please explain me why? It's not like it can really improve your times...


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## applemobile (Jun 8, 2012)

Just watched the first few minuites. What an absolute hock. ''special lubrication techniques'' Lubing is lubing. I don't care what anyone says. Just randomly squirt some diff oil around in your cube and use it for a hundred solves. Take it back apart and you will find lube has got everywhere. Poster above hit the nail on the head, people are always looking for a easy way out, if they think it will make them faster without effort, they will buy it. You only have to look at all the 'diet pills' on the market that cost £50 each to realise this.


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## a small kitten (Jun 8, 2012)

This is kind of sad.


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## Thunderbolt (Jun 8, 2012)

Sad but my lingyun 2 after less than year good tensioning and lubrication move the same way like this zhanchi and do not pop


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## 5BLD (Jun 8, 2012)

No. By buying it I would be going as low as selling a cube like that for such a price.


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## blackzabbathfan (Jun 8, 2012)

I myself am going to pass. I'd still be using a GuHong V1 right now had I not messed up a mod. I don't think a 3x3 us wirth spending that much on.


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## insane569 (Jun 8, 2012)

As with the force cube no. "Special lubrication technique"? Thats not even worth an extra 10$ on the normal price. Ima stick with my good old pink GuHong.


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## ben1996123 (Jun 8, 2012)

no.

[03:28:18] somepony: lol camcuber is selling cubes he tensioned, lubed, and stickered for 60 dollars
[03:28:24] somepony: someones desperate for business


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## Noahaha (Jun 8, 2012)

Maybe just get the three best cubes ever from the cubicle instead?


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## hcfong (Jun 8, 2012)

$60? Absolutely no way.


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## cubenut99 (Jun 8, 2012)

I think that normal zhanchi's are horrible, but if Camcuber's says this one is better it is over priced.
I think Camcuber's zhanchi is going to do very bad in his store.


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## sa11297 (Jun 8, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> Maybe just get the three best cubes ever from the cubicle instead?



exactly. Those cubes are awesome, and not overpriced.


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## 5BLD (Jun 8, 2012)

cubenut99 said:


> I think that normal zhanchi's are horrible, but if Camcuber's says this one is better it is over priced.
> I think Camcuber's zhanchi is going to do very bad in his store.



I think a few people who are lazy and are desperate to improve their times might think this as a good investment, and who knows, maybe the placebo after paying so much money will improve their times.


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## camcuber (Jun 8, 2012)

Just wanted to give you guys here an explanation. I hope that I did not offend any of you but the reason for the extremely high price of $60 is probably close to the same reason that the Lubix Elite is $100. Time. I don't have time everyday to fully lubricate even 3 of these cubes, do orders, do chores, and continue on with my day so I put this cube out on the market not expecting to sell a whole lot of them, just for the people who really wanted them. I will be giving one out for free today for Free Cube Friday, one for the Logo Contest, and I have also lowered the price to $29.99 which I hope is more reasonable. I lowered the price because, yes, it is very time consuming but I didn't realize that people would be so interested in buying it. I know that a lot of people at competitions always offer to buy my cube but I didn't think that it would do that well online. If you know me, you know that I am all about trying to help out the community as long as I can. Hopefully this price is more reasonable for those of you who want this cube for yourself. I do realize that all that I am doing is lubricating, tensioning, and sticking but I also make sure that all pieces are held together sturdily and spend about 15 - 20 minutes tensioning alone to make sure that the tensions are exact as I can get them. Stickering takes me about 30 minutes because I try to get them as straight as possible and cannot use application tape. Then there is the lubricating. The lube that I use is currently not on the market but is a type of silicone. I believe that I have found a way to apply this lube so that when it starts to fade, it will fade with the cube breaking in, then leave the excess lube for the cube's actual use if you understand what I am saying. I still think that this price is a little high but honestly, I cannot make it lower because if I made it around the $20 mark, that would probably create more orders for this cube there fore resulting in a huge time loss for myself which I cannot afford at this time. I hope that this clears some things up for you guys, let me know if you have any other inquiries about this cube or my store and I would be happy to answer you.



ben1996123 said:


> no.
> 
> [03:28:18] somepony: lol camcuber is selling cubes he tensioned, lubed, and stickered for 60 dollars
> [03:28:24] somepony: someones desperate for business



If I was desperate for business wouldn't the price be lower? I have lowered it now and it was at such a high price because I was originally kind of hoping that I wouldn't have to make that many because it is time consuming, especially for someone who is trying to run a store and have time for other things.


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## a small kitten (Jun 8, 2012)

> I do realize that all that I am doing is lubricating, tensioning, and sticking but I also make sure that all pieces are held together sturdily and spend about 15 - 20 minutes tensioning alone to make sure that the tensions are exact as I can get them. Stickering takes me about 30 minutes because I try to get them as straight as possible and cannot use application tape.



Really?


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## camcuber (Jun 8, 2012)

a small kitten said:


> Really?



Yeah, i've never timed it but taking off the stickers, taking the goo off, and applying the new stickers takes me about that long.


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## RaresB (Jun 8, 2012)

camcuber said:


> Yeah, i've never timed it but taking off the stickers, taking the goo off, and applying the new stickers takes me about that long.



I can vouch for this it takes me a long time as well, the application tape never works out for me, but the main problem is that when people see the difference between a diy kit and an assembled cube is at most 1$, you cant justify putting stickers on as your time. People dont care if they were put on by a machine or hand placed by god in the end they just want a cheap price.


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## Goosly (Jun 8, 2012)

30 minutes for stickering is quite a lot. You might as well sell a cheaper version, which you do not resticker.


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## sa11297 (Jun 8, 2012)

Goosly said:


> 30 minutes for stickering is quite a lot. You might as well sell a cheaper version, which you do not resticker.



this, and if you (Camcuber) want to help the community because you believe you have found a very good way to lubricate, why not tell us exactly what that is? Also, tensioning and stickering can be done by the customer.


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## 5BLD (Jun 8, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> this, and if you (Camcuber) want to help the community because you believe you have found a very good way to lubricate, why not tell us exactly what that is? Also, tensioning and stickering can be done by the customer.



Agreed. I'm interested to see what makes the cube so special. Lubing is lubing, stickering is stickering, tensioning is tensioning. Modding however- this is where I'm curious.


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## stoic (Jun 8, 2012)

Lol at poll results. 49:0


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## TomWood (Jun 9, 2012)

I have to say regardless of how much t is for someone to buy, If it take Cameron that long to make, and I was making them and it was my life, I'd be charging a fair bit too. Its not worth it if he didn't. Depending on how good they were, I'd consider buying one. Its a lot of work put into a cube and like cameron said, Elite Lubix is 100 bucks and I dont know that Cam's Zhanchi would be any worse. Put that into perspective and I dont think its that bad a buy.


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## a small kitten (Jun 9, 2012)

He's creating a lot of inefficiencies for himself and then charging a high price to "compensate" for the inefficiencies. In other words, a lot of the "work" and "time" he puts into the cube seem drawn out and borderline unnecessary. The only differentiating aspect about the cube is some sort of "special" lubing process, which he has been very vague about (probably intentionally). 

Also, comparing it to a Lubix Elite might not be very useful. Of course it isn't a bad deal compared to a hundred dollar 3x3. Nothing seems like it's a bad deal that way.


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## storebought (Jun 9, 2012)

Maybe you should release the lube technique to the community? Lubix did, and they are still selling cubes, also I realize it is time consuming but you should consider doing some kind of mod (48 point edge mod, modding the centers , center cap paper mod  ) in order to justify the still ridiculous price . And finally why not just send the stickers with the cube, that would save time and effort and people cannot complain about stickering a speed cube.


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## Godmil (Jun 9, 2012)

TomWood said:


> If it take Cameron that long to make, and I was making them and it was my life, I'd be charging a fair bit too....



Yeah, it's fine to mark something up for time spent but close to $50 for 1 hours work? That's a hellava wage you'd be earning.
$30 for the cube is a much more competitive price, I may be willing to pay $10-15 more for a cube if I knew it was lubricated (from the inside) well tensioned, and if I really wanted different stickers. But I think you're kidding yourself Camcuber if you think there is anything magical about your lube (or lubing method). On any cube the bits that grind and wear down the most are going to be the first bits that the lube wears off.

Also the Elite is a rip off too - it was fine when it was that price due to bidders on Ebay, but setting it as that price is ridiculous now.


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## ottozing (Jun 9, 2012)

im pretty sure his "special lubing" is just lots of shock oil plus breaking in the cube and then wiping out most of the lube. thats what i do to my cubes and they end up being pretty damn smooth.

just my guess though.


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## Winball (Jun 9, 2012)

We have to pay 60 dollars for a cube because camcuber have to do chores at home and he doesn't really have time to assemble cubes. We dont care.
I agree with the 30 minute of applying stickers. There is no way he use 30 minutes.
I get really upset when people are trying to take advantage of something that is not real. (magic lubricant and 20 minute tensioning,30 minute on stickers).
30 dollars is still more than a lubix zhanchi, witch is lubed, tensioned, modded.


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## MalusDB (Jun 9, 2012)

Winball said:


> We have to pay 60 dollars for a cube because camcuber have to do chores at home and he doesn't really have time to assemble cubes. We dont care.
> .


This is exactly the feeling I got as soon as I read his response. Camcuber, you can't use issues of time constraints originating from your private life as an excuse as to why something in your business is more expensive. Leave your **** at the door when you go to work.

What makes your cube so different from any other on the market anyway? This "lubing" is merely mentioned. If you want to gain some confidence from your potential maket you're gonna have to be a bit more open.


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## musicninja17 (Jun 9, 2012)

No. Buy a $14 zhan-chi and mod it yourself. It will take a short amount of time, but you bond with it because you made it. Only you can adjust it fully to how you like. After each edge mod, you take a feel of it and decide what you want to do from there.


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## qqwref (Jun 9, 2012)

Wouldn't it save him time to get an unassembled DIY kit and then sticker it directly without having to remove old stickers? Surely assembling a cube is faster than removing stickers and goop... or is there an obvious reason camcuber isn't doing this?


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## Bob (Jun 9, 2012)

lol the poll response is a pretty overwhelming no. However, if I was camcuber, I'd still produce it and sell it for 60. It would be worth it just for the two suckers in this thread....and if they both write positive reviews, you might be able to get sucker #3 to follow suit.


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## JackJ (Jun 9, 2012)

Sure it's overpriced. But it's not like he's making us buy it. Please everyone, quit bashing.


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## Stefan (Jun 9, 2012)

Bob said:


> if I was camcuber, I'd still produce it and sell it for 60. It would be worth it just for the two suckers in this thread



If they're serious, they truly are suckers. Note that apparently ...



camcuber said:


> I have also lowered the price to $29.99





ellwd said:


> Lol at poll results. 49:0



... they said they'd be willing to pay 60 *after the price had dropped to 30*.



camcuber said:


> If I was desperate for business wouldn't the price be lower? I have lowered it now



lol


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## Meep (Jun 9, 2012)

If stickering takes so long, I'd imagine people wouldn't mind if he just shipped a cube and a sticker set for people to apply themselves (If his time costs as much as it does).


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## shelley (Jun 9, 2012)

Godmil said:


> Yeah, it's fine to mark something up for time spent but close to $50 for 1 hours work? That's a hellava wage you'd be earning.



I'm not even earning $50/hour and my job requires a college degree and specialized education. Stickering/modding a cube should be comparable to minimum wage work. Hell, the assembly of _complex electronic equipment_ is worth less than that.

Side note: I remember the days when assembling, lubing and modding your own cube was a rite of passage for cubers. Like a Jedi having to build his own lightsaber to complete his training.

But what bothers me most is not the price itself but this special lubing/tensioning method that is apparently worth so much. If it's so good, why not share it with the community? We've always been open about the exchange of ideas. That's the whole point of this forum, and without it our community would never have grown at the rate it has. Is this going to change? How would you feel if you had to pay $50 to learn about a new method or access a certain set of algorithms?


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## Godmil (Jun 10, 2012)

shelley said:


> How would you feel if you had to pay $50 to learn about a new method or access a certain set of algorithms?



Snyder Method 3


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## Owen (Jun 10, 2012)

Totally. I'd throw any amount of money at that work of art.


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## TomWood (Jun 10, 2012)

I see where a lot of people are coming from but the way i look at it is, Cameron has every right to value his time at whatever price he wants, If he doesnt want to sell heaps (due to it taking a lot of time to make) then he can make the price higher and whoever is willing to pay will. Hes not strapping anyone down and demanding they buy his cube, He's offering his favourite cube the way he likes it, for the price he wants to sell it for, for those that want to buy it. So if you dont want to buy it............ummmmmm, Dont buy it! If its better than an Elite ( which it may very well be) then its worth anything under 100 dollars. And dont get me wrong I dont just spend my money without thinking about it especially when it comes to cubes and I havent bought one of these as of now. But I sure as hell dont have a problem with Cameron naming his price and offering yet another product that otherwise wouldnt exist.


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## shelley (Jun 10, 2012)

So there's nothing special about this stickering/lubing/modding, he's just trying to separate fools from their money. Got it.


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## TomWood (Jun 10, 2012)

There isnt anything special about the stickering, there is something different about the stickers (Cubesmith) however and I personally prefer buying stickered cubes thats for sure. There obviously is something special about the lubing/working in otherwise it would feel like a normal ZhanChi which I would assume was quite obvious and he quite clearly stated that there is no piece mod and no he isnt trying to "seperate fools from their money" he is naming a price that allows him to not have to make or sell too many as he doesnt have the time which he has also quite clearly stated. If he made them all twenty dollars he wouldnt be able to keep up with demand, so he's named a price that suits his pace in terms of supply and demand. Not that hard to understand really.


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## mrpotatoman14 (Jun 10, 2012)

So just to make sure I get all of this, Cameron is selling a 13 dollar cube for 30 because he restickered it, lubed it, and he "Doesn't have a lot of free time." That's completely logical.

btw You can get a fully lubed and tensioned zhanchi for 16$ on the cubicle.


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## maxyso (Jun 10, 2012)

mrpotatoman14 said:


> So just to make sure I get all of this, Cameron is selling a 13 dollar cube for 30 because he restickered it, lubed it, and he "Doesn't have a lot of free time." That's completely logical.
> 
> btw You can get a fully lubed and tensioned zhanchi for 16$ on the cubicle.


it is a little expensive for a three by three. also he hasn't revealed his technique so u have no idea how it compares


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## TomWood (Jun 10, 2012)

mrpotatoman14 said:


> btw You can get a fully lubed and tensioned zhanchi for 16$ on the cubicle.



Then get that lol, whats wrong with Cameron naming his price? He's already sold some so quite obviously someone likes the feel of his ZhanChi over the normal, and thats their choice, its also their choice to buy it. If it felt heaps good and I couldnt get that result anywhere else, I'd consider buying it too. If it felt the same as any ZhanChi then I obviously wouldnt, wait for the reviews and see. Cameron has made a cube that a credible number of people agree feels like no other ZhanChi, so I think Cameron has every right to name his price and if people dont want it, Just dont freaking buy It!!


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## shelley (Jun 10, 2012)

Yes, Cameron has every right to name his price. And I have every right to express the opinion that it's only for people with more money than sense. You're the one who made the forum thread/poll about it.


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## mrpotatoman14 (Jun 10, 2012)

maxyso said:


> it is a little expensive for a three by three. also he hasn't revealed his technique so u have no idea how it compares


There are only so many ways to lube a cube, I highly doubt he truly has a new technique. :/
@TomWood So basically your telling me to stop stating my opinon...


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## TomWood (Jun 10, 2012)

No I get your guys opinion and although it doesnt seem like it I half agree, I definitely have no problem with anyone stating their opinion at all and i am sorry if I came off like that  I did start this thread because I thought myself 60 was steep, I still think it is but I also think each to their own (i.e if people want to buy it good on them) I understand your opinion and quite clearly from the poll, youre not alone in your opinion


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## Andreaillest (Jun 10, 2012)

No. Hell, I just spent a little over $60 on just 2 pairs of jeans alone. Even with the price mark down, my money can be spent in better use.
I fail to see what's so special about his technique and I hope Cameron reveals such information because it _could_ in fact, be special. However, I'm perfectly content with a $13 cube that I take the time to lube and break in myself.

I'm not knocking Cameron for wanting to sell it though. If he truly believes there are people willing to fork out that kind of cash and those people do so, then good for him. I, as well as many others just aren't willing to pay for a service that one can do on their own for free.


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## TomWood (Jun 10, 2012)

Andreaillest said:


> No. Hell, I just spent a little over $60 on just 2 pairs of jeans alone. Even with the price mark down, my money can be spent in better use.
> I fail to see what's so special about his technique and I hope Cameron reveals such information because it _could_ in fact, be special. However, I'm perfectly content with a $13 cube that I take the time to lube and break in myself.
> 
> I'm not knocking Cameron for wanting to sell it though. If he truly believes there are people willing to fork out that kind of cash and those people do so, then good for him. I, as well as many others just aren't willing to pay for a service that one can do on their own for free.



Extremely fair comment  I agree


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## jonlin (Jun 10, 2012)

Bob said:


> lol the poll response is a pretty overwhelming no. However, if I was camcuber, I'd still produce it and sell it for 60. It would be worth it just for the two suckers in this thread....and if they both write positive reviews, you might be able to get sucker #3 to follow suit.



Good job. A sucker with the Youtube name of youcuber1 said he bought one.
He was pretty proud of it too...


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## BlackStahli (Jun 10, 2012)

i remember back when the lubix elite was going in the $100s and it still sold 
maybe cameron's doing a similar thing here?


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## camcuber (Jun 11, 2012)

I will try to summarize this one last time in this post to hopefully clear this up, I will start off by addressing the price of this cube. I originally posted this cube for such a high retail because yes, it does take me quite some time to fully produce one of these items but also because it was intended for those people who genuinely wanted this item (there were few who did purchase it for it's original price but were refunded the additional cost once the drop occurred). This cube wasn't necessarily designed to be something that you would see even 2/10 people using at a competition because I did not intend it to become "mass-produced" rather a specialty cube that was requested by some cubers who I have met. I know that there are ways in which I can cut down time and therefore the price of this cube but I was currently working with what I had at the time, assembled ZhanChi's. I actually am not looking to cut costs per say because I would not be able to keep up with orders for this cube assuming it was popular once the price was more around the $20 mark. This cube is 90% going to be a limited time product that will only be sold throughout the summer while I do not have school. I am not blaming my time constraints on chores or personal things but I am saying that they do have a substantial part in my life such as running SpeedCubeShop does. I am once again sorry that I seem to have offended so many of you with this cube but don't worry, it will be off the market in due time and then you won't have to worry about the price of it. Thanks to those who have placed your orders, I am currently preparing your cubes for shipment and hope that you enjoy them.


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## insane569 (Jun 11, 2012)

So how many ways is there to lube a simple 3x3 cube? Can't be that many. Seems everyone nowadays has their own "special technique".


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jun 11, 2012)

lol people complaining about a product they haven't even bought, criticizing that it's nothing special, then demanding that Cameron share that not so special secret with the world. Surely your lives, or lack thereof, will continue regardless of the price of Cameron's cube. 

The mistake might've been putting it on the website which led people to believe that it would be sold to a lot of people instead of a select few. 

If you know Cameron you know he's not trying to pull one over on anyone. Do you know how many times he donates prizes to competitions he goes to? How much cheaper his cubes are generally than other shops? He's doing a favor for the Community by providing a (SoCal) local cube shop for newbies and experts alike. Of course he makes some profit off it but that doesn't mean that's the only reason he's in it. He's not some big corporation with tons of people working for him, just him and his family, in their spare time. If he has a special technique that he doesn't wanna reveal for free then that's on him, but it doesn't make him necessarily selfish or greedy. I know some cubers who don't believe in sharing every single technique they have, but that doesn't make them selfish. Sure a lot of cubers in the community feel compelled to share information that could help the community but it doesn't make you an ass if you don't share an idea. Cameron's way of giving back to the Community is his shop and that's good enough for me.


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## aronpm (Jun 11, 2012)

Charging $35/$60 for a 3x3 is _not_ "giving back to the community". It's called a scam.


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## maxyso (Jun 11, 2012)

aronpm said:


> Charging $35/$60 for a 3x3 is _not_ "giving back to the community". It's called a scam.



actually not really, because a scam is like fraud. and he is actually doing what he says. its just expensive. its like you didn't read the thread.


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## shelley (Jun 11, 2012)

Nobody's accusing him of being dishonest. Just maybe overvaluing his time and/or skill.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jun 11, 2012)

shelley said:


> Nobody's accusing him of being dishonest. Just maybe overvaluing his time and/or skill.





aronpm said:


> Charging $35/$60 for a 3x3 is _not_ "giving back to the community". It's called a scam.



It's also inherent in calling people "suckers" for buying his cube, as if Cameron is deliberately trying to pull one over on people. The price represents what he thought was fair, and if you disagree with what he thinks is fair then it's fine to say so.


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## Godmil (Jun 11, 2012)

maxyso said:


> and he is actually doing what he says.


But what he says is rediculous... about having a special lubing technique that will last for a year and help break the cube in.. etc. He's suggesting that he's doing something totally unique, and that everyone who's tried his cube has been amazed that it feels better than normal ZhanChi's.... and the only way to get it is to pay a premium.

I mean it's not the end of the world, many companies charge extortionate prices for cheap products. If you can do it, then that's great business (in a away),but you've also gatta be aware that there will be a backlash and criticism.

Also saying that it was only high priced to limit the quantity... instead of just, I dunno... limiting the quantity, is a bit rubbish. Clearly he wanted to just capitalise on something that he thinks is unique... which is fine, like I said "good business", but still you're going to see criticism for it.. and in small communities like this criticism seems to go a long way.


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## camcuber (Jun 11, 2012)

Godmil said:


> But what he says is rediculous... about having a special lubing technique that will last for a year and help break the cube in.. etc. He's suggesting that he's doing something totally unique, and that everyone who's tried his cube has been amazed that it feels better than normal ZhanChi's.... and the only way to get it is to pay a premium.
> 
> I mean it's not the end of the world, many companies charge extortionate prices for cheap products. If you can do it, then that's great business (in a away),but you've also gatta be aware that there will be a backlash and criticism.
> 
> Also saying that it was only high priced to limit the quantity... instead of just, I dunno... limiting the quantity, is a bit rubbish. Clearly he wanted to just capitalise on something that he thinks is unique... which is fine, like I said "good business", but still you're going to see criticism for it.. and in small communities like this criticism seems to go a long way.



Thanks for taking the time to put in your input. I do, however, have an answer to what you said. I am not sure exactly how many people wanted to buy this cube. I estimated around 20-30 but did not just want to make 20-30 cubes and hope that they were the ones to obtain them. Each of those people offered me $50-$60 for the cube, so I priced it accordingly.


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## Godmil (Jun 11, 2012)

camcuber said:


> Each of those people offered me $50-$60 for the cube, so I priced it accordingly.



fair enough.


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## Goosly (Jun 11, 2012)

camcuber said:


> Each of those people offered me $50-$60 for the cube, so I priced it accordingly.



They offered $50-$60 for a non-modded ZhanChi? We really need some reviews here


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## Kirjava (Jun 11, 2012)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> lol people complaining about a product they haven't even bought, criticizing that it's nothing special, then demanding that Cameron share that not so special secret with the world. Surely your lives, or lack thereof, will continue regardless of the price of Cameron's cube.



This product is damaging to the image of the community.



PhillipEspinoza said:


> I know some cubers who don't believe in sharing every single technique they have, but that doesn't make them selfish.



Yes it does. Selfishness is putting your own interests before the interests of others.


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## TomWood (Jun 11, 2012)

dont think not sharing a lubing technique is selfish at all. Who cares if someone comes up with something they like for a feel they like, and if cameron is on to something that people want to buy and own then fine. There is SO much information for us aall out there, algorithims, methods sooooo much. When it comes to maintenence and techniques involved with ones cube, a few little secrets here and there is not a problem, cubing is still competitive and so is owning a shop/business to do with cubing. Im in no way offended by someone keeping a lubing technique secret at all, hes not neccesarily keeping the lube itself a secret he sells it all on his shop. Who cares if people keep things like lubing tehniques to themsleves, I think it's sad that people care that much. Theres nothng wrong with keeping some things to yourself and my opinion its especially ok when youve given as much to the community as Cameron, If he wasnt selling his cube in a shop, noone would care how he lubed it, the fact that he is still isnt a reason to care, just dont buy it and stick to your lubing technique if you have a problem with buying his.


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## Kirjava (Jun 11, 2012)

TomWood said:


> Im in no way offended by someone keeping a lubing technique secret at all, hes not neccesarily keeping the lube itself a secret he sells it all on his shop. Who cares if people keep things like lubing tehniques to themsleves, I think it's sad that people care that much.



I'm not offended that he's keeping his lubing technique secret, I'm complaining about it because it's vapourware.



TomWood said:


> Theres nothng wrong with keeping some things to yourself



There's nothing wrong with being selfish, but that doesn't make it selfless.



TomWood said:


> its especially ok when youve given as much to the community as Cameron



Yes, donating products to competitions to advertise your store is truly a major contribution.


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## TomWood (Jun 11, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Yes, donating products to competitions to advertise your store is truly a major contribution.



Im not talking about that, his videos for a start have influenced me massively and are the reason I'm into different cubes and speedcubing as a whole, understand you may not share that influence but he has dedicated a lot of videos (over 400) to cubing and his store has good service and good prices


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## stoic (Jun 11, 2012)

TomWood said:


> what have you contributed that is so much better.



Did he really just say that


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## aronpm (Jun 11, 2012)

TomWood said:


> and for the record what have you contributed that is so much better.



http://snk.digibase.ca/k4/
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?26342-Kirjava-Meep-Method-for-Skewb
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?28778-Kirjava-s-3x3x5-Method
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?31506-OLLCP-(hax)
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?23222-SuneOLL
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?21210-KCLL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYvgEL5Qwkk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3fGelHdkXo
http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/CubeCast_Podcast


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## Noahaha (Jun 11, 2012)

aronpm said:


> http://snk.digibase.ca/k4/
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?26342-Kirjava-Meep-Method-for-Skewb
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?28778-Kirjava-s-3x3x5-Method
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?31506-OLLCP-(hax)
> ...



http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?36791-Developing-a-better-LL-system


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## TomWood (Jun 11, 2012)

I do apologize for saying that without knowing how much you actually have contributed


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## Godmil (Jun 11, 2012)

Hahaha 

Didn't Kirjava also have something to do with popularising CLL for 2x2?


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## TomWood (Jun 11, 2012)

I definitely do not want to offend anyone who has contributed such an amount as Kirjava especially considering how little (nothing) I have so I do apologize for writing without thinking then


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## Mudkip (Jun 11, 2012)

We _were_ talking about the CamCuber Zhanchi right? 
No 3x3 is worth 60$. I think I'll stick with my 17$ Dayan, which is already great.


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## Bob (Jun 11, 2012)

Mudkip said:


> We _were_ talking about the CamCuber Zhanchi right?
> No 3x3 is worth 60$. I think I'll stick with my 17$ Dayan, which is already great.



...I think even that is overpriced.  Can't they be had for around 10-12?


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## camcuber (Jun 11, 2012)

Yes, donating products to competitions to advertise your store is truly a major contribution.[/QUOTE]

It's not much of advertising considering I have a banner at my table in the back of the room. I donate prizes because most of the delegates do not have any to provide the winners so I thought it was a nice thing to do.


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## Ninja Storm (Jun 11, 2012)

I probably would... If I had money to spend xP


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## Matthew3075 (Jun 12, 2012)

The camcuber zhanchi is definitely worth the money. A lot of people say that it is a complete waste, but i currently have the cube in my possession, and it's just amazing. I have a review for this cube up on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl8mHcFBDOg&feature=youtu.be . Again, it is definitely worth the money ($35 VERY REASONABLE) and it can be a main speedcube for anyone out there.


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## YddEd (Jun 12, 2012)

Or you could just get a Godly Guhong from Izovire


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## TomWood (Jun 12, 2012)

Matthew3075 said:


> The camcuber zhanchi is definitely worth the money. A lot of people say that it is a complete waste, but i currently have the cube in my possession, and it's just amazing. I have a review for this cube up on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl8mHcFBDOg&feature=youtu.be . Again, it is definitely worth the money ($35 VERY REASONABLE) and it can be a main speedcube for anyone out there.



See there we go! The first person in possession of it and they justify the price, imo he's the only one who knows if its worth it that posted so far and it'll be interesting to see what happens when more pop up


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## Godmil (Jun 12, 2012)

TomWood said:


> See there we go!



It's a lubed tensioned ZhanChi. It's be amazed if anyone said it *wasn't* great. That's not really the point.


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## TomWood (Jun 12, 2012)

Godmil said:


> It's a lubed tensioned ZhanChi. It's be amazed if anyone said it *wasn't* great. That's not really the point.



Fair enough, The part I guess I should have quoted was the "well worth the money" part


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## bran (Jun 12, 2012)

Godmil said:


> It's a lubed tensioned ZhanChi. It's be amazed if anyone said it *wasn't* great. That's not really the point.



He also compares it to a lubix zhanchi and says that he prefers it more.


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## Godmil (Jun 12, 2012)

bran said:


> He also compares it to a lubix zhanchi and says that he prefers it more.



He compares it to his *old* lubix ZhanChi. Last ZhanChi I bought, straight out of the box (unlubed and with not tension fiddling) I prefered to my Lubix ZhanChi. It didn't have 6 months of lube and dusk stuffing it up - which I didn't notice at the time, but when compared to a brand new cube it was dramatic.
The real test would be if it was comparable to another new cube that had just 5 mins of tensioning and a touch of lube... would it be $20 better? I dunno, I'm not going to buy them to find out. Thankfully we can use our brains and realise that there is no magical lubing technique that is worth spending more than the cost of the cube to have performed.

Having said that, the stickers look nice, and sometimes I'd prefer to pay someone else to set the tensions for me... I'm just worried about peoples claims/expectations running off to fantasy land.


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## TomWood (Jun 12, 2012)

I just dont think youre giving enough credit where due, It's not 5 minutes of tensioning and a touch of lube, sure, I dont know that for certain but i definitely trust Cameron enough to believe its not. Its also not just the work that makes the cube worth it, If it feels better and is faster/better in any way for any reason than a lubix ZhanChi or any ZhanChi then a higher price is justified. Expectations can run off to fantasy land sure but if someone buys it and loves it and was happy to pay what they did, I dont see a problem with that


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## applemobile (Jun 12, 2012)

You just have to face the fact that untill he states what his lubing tecneques are, we can only presume it is a stock zanchi with some shock oil squirted at it. Putting stickers on and tentioning may take him a long time, but it's not skilled work. You could train anyone to do it. Unskilled jobs like that pay minimum wage, meaning, what, $7 labour?


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## Godmil (Jun 12, 2012)

TomWood said:


> I just dont think youre giving enough credit where due, It's not 5 minutes of tensioning and a touch of lube, sure, I dont know that for certain but i definitely trust Cameron enough to believe its not.


Oh, no I didn't mean Cameron was lying about the amount of work he was doing. I was just suggesting that it could be a tough comparsion between this and any other new Zhanchi that was quickly tensioned. I mean there isn't even any modding taking place, it literally is just a ZhanChi that's tensioned and lubed (and restickered).


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## TomWood (Jun 12, 2012)

Ahh k yeah far enough


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## Bob (Jun 12, 2012)

I have been really happy with my OH zhan chi and zhan chi silk from cubicle for just over 20 each. Those were lubed, tensioned, and modded ....for less than half the original asking price


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## Noahaha (Jun 12, 2012)

Bob said:


> I have been really happy with my OH zhan chi and zhan chi silk from cubicle for just over 20 each. Those were lubed, tensioned, and modded ....for less than half the original asking price



Ima let you finish, but the cool Guhong is the best cube of all time.


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## heavypoly6 (Jun 13, 2012)

What I don't understand is why the people who are in favor of Camcuber's cube have not bought it yet since it seems that they have such a high interest and justification for it being a reasonable cube?


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## cubernya (Jun 13, 2012)

To those of you comparing it to a brand new ZhanChi, quickly lubed and tensioned, I've done just that. I got a DIY ZhanChi, quickly assembled the cube, lubing the core and tensioning as I assembled it. I also did the mod where you sand the little bumps off the bottom of the corners. After assembled, I just did a standard lube technique. Sprayed some CRC in there, and put stickers on.

Results: Very smooth, fast, quiet ZhanChi. Great tension and sticker placement, and better than my current ZhanChi.
Time taken for everything (taking it out of the bag to breaking in the CRC): 15:02

I personally see no reason why it should take him over an hour, when I just make my new main in 15 minutes


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## TomWood (Jun 13, 2012)

heavypoly6 said:


> What I don't understand is why the people who are in favor of Camcuber's cube have not bought it yet since it seems that they have such a high interest and justification for it being a reasonable cube?



For me I'm waiting to place an order of a few cubes and because I live in Australia I prefer to make just one big order so I'm just waiting on a little bit more cash


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## camcuber (Jun 13, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> To those of you comparing it to a brand new ZhanChi, quickly lubed and tensioned, I've done just that. I got a DIY ZhanChi, quickly assembled the cube, lubing the core and tensioning as I assembled it. I also did the mod where you sand the little bumps off the bottom of the corners. After assembled, I just did a standard lube technique. Sprayed some CRC in there, and put stickers on.
> 
> Results: Very smooth, fast, quiet ZhanChi. Great tension and sticker placement, and better than my current ZhanChi.
> Time taken for everything (taking it out of the bag to breaking in the CRC): 15:02
> ...



I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to things like this but I am getting faster the more cubes I build.


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## insane569 (Jun 13, 2012)

So a new guy with 1 post made a review. Thats not enough to make my opinion change. More reviews now please?



TomWood said:


> cubing is still competitive and so is owning a shop/business to do with cubing.



Doesn't mean you over price a cube. Anyone here wanna check the average price of a normal DIY zhanchi and lube?


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## Bob (Jun 13, 2012)

insane569 said:


> So a new guy with 1 post made a review. Thats not enough to make my opinion change. More reviews now please?



...hrmmm, just joined the forum today, only made one post and it was in this thread? suspicious.


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## cubernya (Jun 13, 2012)

insane569 said:


> So a new guy with 1 post made a review. Thats not enough to make my opinion change. More reviews now please?
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't mean you over price a cube. Anyone here wanna check the average price of a normal DIY zhanchi and lube?



DIY from theCubicle - $12.50
5cc lube from theCubicle - $3.00 - by the way, 5cc lubes like 30-40 cubes easily
Stickers - comes with the DIY, but $2.25 from Cubesmith (HB)

Total: $15.50-17.75
Higher end is half the asking price for this cube (assuming that you also get tons of lube)


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## Stefan (Jun 13, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> comparing it to a brand new ZhanChi, quickly lubed and tensioned, I've done just that



You have a CamCuber ZhanChi?


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## Daniel Wu (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding this whole thing, but no one is obligated to buy cubes from him. He can set the price at whatever we wants. If you can get a great cube for less, then great. Do it. But why does it matter what price he sells cubes for? If you don't want it, don't buy it. But, obviously there are people who are willing to pay his price, so what's the big deal here?


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## Stefan (Jun 13, 2012)

rickcube said:


> no one is obligated to buy cubes from him. He can set the price at whatever we wants. If you can get a great cube for less, then great. Do it. But why does it matter what price he sells cubes for? If you don't want it, don't buy it. But, obviously there are people who are willing to pay his price, so what's the big deal here?



So according to your logic where there's no problem if people aren't obligated to buy, it's ok to rip people off by selling them regular water as expensive "miracle water", taking a lot of their money by pretending to talk to their dead parents, doing homeopathy or other fake healing costing them lots of money and making them reject the real help they need, etc? Niiice.


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## applemobile (Jun 13, 2012)

I will take 2 bottles of your miracle water.


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## maxyso (Jun 13, 2012)

Stefan said:


> So according to your logic where there's no problem if people aren't obligated to buy, it's ok to rip people off by selling them regular water as expensive "miracle water", taking a lot of their money by pretending to talk to their dead parents, doing homeopathy or other fake healing costing them lots of money and making them reject the real help they need, etc? Niiice.



but all of you are assuming its not that good before you've even tried it. not saying it is but it could be miracle water.


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## Stefan (Jun 13, 2012)

maxyso said:


> but all of you are assuming its not that good



What did I write that made you think that I assume that?


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## Kirjava (Jun 13, 2012)

rickcube said:


> but no one is obligated to buy cubes from him



This product is damaging to the image of the community.


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## benskoning (Jun 13, 2012)

no way I would just get a lubix Zanchi.


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## CubeLTD (Jun 13, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> This product is damaging to the image of the community.



No not really, but your reaction to it, is.


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## a small kitten (Jun 13, 2012)

> No not really, but your reaction to it, is.



Explain.


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## 5BLD (Jun 13, 2012)

maxyso said:


> but all of you are assuming its not that good before you've even tried it. not saying it is but it could be miracle water.


 
I don't trust miracle water





I think this is what Stefan was referring to, at first it looks free but...


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## drewsopchak (Jun 14, 2012)

Nope, no, natta, no chance, neyyy, negative, never, Yahweh says no, nonexistence.


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## Noahaha (Jun 14, 2012)

drewsopchak said:


> Nope, no, natta, no chance, neyyy, negative, never, Yahweh says no, nonexistence.



Dude, just, no...


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## heavypoly6 (Jun 14, 2012)

CubeLTD said:


> No not really, but your reaction to it, is.



Because people reacting against an unnecessarily overpriced cube is such a degrading thing to do. We should all just buy everything we see without even having any thought about it now shouldn't we?


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## TomWood (Jun 14, 2012)

Haha ok this is getting a bit out of hand, 35 dollars is not expensive, Stefan with all due respect this thread has nothing to do with miracle water and Cameron is not trying to heal dead family members (or whatever) and Kirjava with all due respect once again how is it damaging to the community? Lots of people asked for it including me and the price is not that bad sure 60 was steep but 35 is totally reasonable and anyone who has it and has made a review agrees and on top of this was there ever this much backlash when the lubix ZhanChi was sold for 100? I mean this cube is a third of that price and people are saying its just as good if not better, thats a great deal if you ask me


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## Bob (Jun 14, 2012)

TomWood said:


> Haha ok this is getting a bit out of hand, 35 dollars is not expensive, Stefan with all due respect this thread has nothing to do with miracle water and Cameron is not trying to heal dead family members (or whatever) and Kirjava with all due respect once again how is it damaging to the community? Lots of people asked for it including me and the price is not that bad sure 60 was steep but 35 is totally reasonable and anyone who has it and has made a review agrees and on top of this was there ever this much backlash when the lubix ZhanChi was sold for 100? I mean this cube is a third of that price and people are saying its just as good if not better, thats a great deal if you ask me



The Ultimate Lubix ZhanChi sells for $21.99.


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## a small kitten (Jun 14, 2012)

I would think $35 for a lubed ZhanChi plus near-unnecessary services is a bit steep. Also, Stefan was making a comparison (and a fair one). Of course, miracle water has absolutely nothing to do with selling cubes. The comparison is pretty straightforward but if you want him to clarify just ask. There's no need to dismiss it as off-topic.



> was there ever this much backlash when the lubix ZhanChi was sold for 100?



I think you're referring to the Lubix Elite. Answer to your question is a yeah.



> I mean this cube is a third of that price and people are saying its just as good if not better, thats a great deal if you ask me



Comparing this cube to the Lubix Elite is a nonsense thing to do. The Lubix Elite is not the "standard". The comparison doesn't show much.


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## Noahaha (Jun 14, 2012)

Bob said:


> The Ultimate Lubix ZhanChi sells for $21.99.



He meant the Lubix Elite.


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## TomWood (Jun 14, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> He meant the Lubix Elite.



Yeah my bad I did mean the Lubix Elite I wasnt declaring it as Off topic as much as incomparable, Two very different situations in terms of intensity lol, I just think If you want a CamCuber replica that feels exactly like his ZhanChi then you'd cop 35 and be happy with it, Its not just about the way it performs its also a bit about having Cameron make you one of 'his' cubes, and I know all you'd have to do to get the look is get the cubesmith stickers and a new ZhanChi and you could not worry about feel and it would be way cheaper, But I would honestly just rather pay the 35 and get the cube that Cameron made himself, Thats just a personal choice for a few people that have asked Cameron to make it and I was never expecting anything less than 30 bucks anyway, I see why you wouldnt want to spend that sort of money especially if you arent particularly a fan of Cameron or watch his videos regularly but for some people its a once off, special cube that they want to own and dont necessarily need to be cheap, and hey if it lasts as long as Cam said it has, 30 dollars goes a long way


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