# 4x4



## thackernerd (Mar 14, 2011)

I need a 4x4, what do you think is the best 4x4 avalible?


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## Andreaillest (Mar 14, 2011)

The most expensive one.

Do your own research on youtube and decide what fits your personal preference.


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## iLUVcubing (Mar 14, 2011)

search button, one question answer thread, but anyway back to the topic, it all depends. Shenshou is an all around good 4x4 and is really cheap. X-cube is widely considered as the best 4x4, problem is its about $40-50. Mf8 dayan is good, but its pretty big and pops alot. Maru is another 4x4 which is quite smooth and all round pretty good but does have misalignment issues now and then. You can buy most of these from lightake, cant be stuffed giving links =)


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## theace (Mar 14, 2011)

First of all, STOP MAKING THREADS ABOUT STUFF THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED! SHEESH!

IMO, The X Cube 4 is the "best" with regards to size, feel and cutting ability but is expensive.

The Dayan MF8 is nice but pops.

So I'd suggest to Shenshou 4x4 unless you can spend money on the x4.


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## anush (Mar 14, 2011)

the mefferts 4x4 is also very good


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## jianziboy (Mar 14, 2011)

dayan + mf8 if you want a 4x4 for a competition that is close to happening

x cube 4 if you have time to break it in

Maru [email protected] no it mis alines

shengshou is good but doesn't cut corners therefore it locks up


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## theace (Mar 14, 2011)

jianziboy said:


> shengshou is good but doesn't cut corners therefore it locks up



My friend has one that's really amazing.


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## EricReese (Mar 14, 2011)

Seriously why do people make 10 threads about this every week? Does no one bother searching first? This has been answered so many freaking times.

XCube


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## Kirjava (Mar 14, 2011)

No idea why people are suggesting the xcube. It's a terrible 4x4x4.


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## EricReese (Mar 14, 2011)

Not mine. I got mine pre ordered when they came out so I have done loads of solves on it. Its pretty nice. I like it more then my Dayan. (Not including the size of the Dayan either). Just my opinion.


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## anush (Mar 14, 2011)

if you dont have the patience to modify your 4x4 order a mefferts or a clefferts


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## ianography (Mar 14, 2011)

no get a Ghosthand II 4x4 it's basically a better shengshou (and it's cheap)


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## Kirjava (Mar 14, 2011)

EricReese said:


> I got mine pre ordered when they came out so I have done loads of solves on it.



Implying the multiple xcubes I've used haven't been broken in and tweaked? Your opinion is no more valid than mine. (Well, maybe less so ^^)

The inner layers suck - this isn't much of a problem for you using the beginner method but it really shows up with other techniques. The pops are muuuch worse than on the Dayan - often you have to disassemble the damn thing some more before you can put it back together.


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## Godmil (Mar 14, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> No idea why people are suggesting the xcube. It's a terrible 4x4x4.


 
So what 4x4x4's are better?


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## Kirjava (Mar 14, 2011)

Dayan.


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## theace (Mar 14, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> No idea why people are suggesting the xcube. It's a terrible 4x4x4.


 
Why do you think so? Mine is really good (for me at least)


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## Godmil (Mar 14, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> Dayan.



That's really interesting cause my Dayan feels nowhere near as nice as my X-Cube now. I wonder if I've just got it set up poorly.


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## Kirjava (Mar 14, 2011)

theace said:


> Why do you think so? Mine is really good (for me at least)


 
I outlined the main reasons for this above.

It's personal preference of course, but I think it's good to warn people about various issues with this cube.


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## freshcuber (Mar 14, 2011)

I have to agree with Kirjava about the X-Cubes pops. Very rarely does a single piece pop. I usually get at least one edge and a center. Getting the center back in is a pain and you really can't continue the solve and hope for a good time. My Dayan pops less dramatically but probably pops more. If you have larger hands then the Dayan is a good cube for you. It doesn't have any bad attributes other than it's enourmous size and the occasional pop. If your hands aren't on the larger size though I recommend the X-Cube. The outers are great and the Inners have a bad feel for awhile but that goes away. Other than pops I don't have any problems with the cube.


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## Bapao (Mar 14, 2011)

ianography said:


> no get a Ghosthand II 4x4 it's basically a better shengshou (and it's cheap)


 
Aren't those cubes exactly the same build wise? If not, do you happen to know in which aspects they differ?


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## ianography (Mar 14, 2011)

b4p4076 said:


> Aren't those cubes exactly the same build wise? If not, do you happen to know in which aspects they differ?


 
Yep, they're the same, but the Ghosthand II is supposed to have a better tensioning


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## Bapao (Mar 14, 2011)

ianography said:


> Yep, they're the same, but the Ghosthand II is supposed to have a better tensioning



Ah, thanks for the info. 
Because I ordered a ShengShou version. So I'll probably need re-tension it when it arrives...oh well, probably would have done that anyway.


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## Selkie (Mar 14, 2011)

*<Shameless hijack>*




Godmil said:


> That's really interesting cause my Dayan feels nowhere near as nice as my X-Cube now. I wonder if I've just got it set up poorly.


 
I know you are UK based Godmill. Where did you order your x-cube 4x4, I do not see them on Verdes site and wanted to get one now I am becomming more interested in larger cubes. I did buy a cheap set of 2x2, 4x4 and 5x5 back in January but the quality is rather pittiful. I am about to order a v-cube black collection directly from Verdes but obviously it does not contain the 4x4 as it is not mass produced yet. I was debating on a Shenshou or Dayan but think I would rather get the V taking everyone's recommendations into account.

*</Shameless hijack>*


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## Godmil (Mar 14, 2011)

When the X-Cube first came out a group of us in the UK ordered a set of them (cause you could only buy them directly from xb27 in packs of 13). I think HKNowStore is the cheapest place to buy them at the moment, but I've never bought anything from there before so I can't vouch for it.


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## MaeLSTRoM (Mar 14, 2011)

Selkie said:


> I do not see them on Verdes site



Its not a V-cube so it wouldn't bo on Verdes' site


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## sa11297 (Mar 14, 2011)

b4p4076 said:


> Aren't those cubes exactly the same build wise? If not, do you happen to know in which aspects they differ?


 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QSUyJfAbkE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


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## Selkie (Mar 14, 2011)

MaeLSTRoM said:


> Its not a V-cube so it wouldn't bo on Verdes' site


 
Now you say that I have only just noticed. Only 1 letter diffrence but a very important difference. Damn my ignorance.

I'll wander off to hide in my corner


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## mr6768 (Mar 14, 2011)

xcube is not worth the money !
Dayan is good and i think popping problem can be solved with a good tensioning and the big size won't be another problem if you learn to control it.
Feliks does not have Big hands !!!


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## Cyrus C. (Mar 14, 2011)

MiniQJ is great. I like it more than an XCube or Dayan.


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## theace (Mar 14, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> I outlined the main reasons for this above.
> 
> It's personal preference of course, but I think it's good to warn people about various issues with this cube.


 
Yes I read. i got uber ninja'd there lol

The pops are disastrous, I agree. However, the way I've tensioned mine, they're usually fall outs. A Fu or BU edge falls out sometimes. Before this, it was quite prone to violent explosions and deadly internal pops. But i guess you get used to it. At least with my time. I'm close to 1:40 so it isn't too much of a big deal for me. I do intend to try out the Dayan sometime though!


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## mr6768 (Mar 14, 2011)

> MiniQJ is great. I like it more than an XCube or Dayan.


My friends and I bought 3 MiniQJ and all of them sucked ! even after breaking in for months !
a Tperm took me like 6 7 seconds .
It was so loose and locky.
was your MiniQJ great out of box or you made it great with tensioning and lubing and breaking in ... ?


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## EricReese (Mar 14, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> Implying the multiple xcubes I've used haven't been broken in and tweaked? Your opinion is no more valid than mine. (Well, maybe less so ^^)


Cant argue with that. I don't know the quality of 4x4's you are used to. Maybe you just have higher standards then me when it comes to 4x4s (imo all 4x4's suck still, even xcube, though its more like pick my poison, in which I'd choose Xcube anyday, closely followed by Dayan, actually theres no other reason Im choosing Xcube over Dayan other then I go through too much maru lube, and the tiny pops on it is an inconvenience.)


> The inner layers suck - this isn't much of a problem for you using the beginner method but it really shows up with other techniques. The pops are muuuch worse than on the Dayan - often you have to disassemble the damn thing some more before you can put it back together.



My inner layers don't suck at all. This is a problem I feel as if the xcubes you have felt haven't been broken in enough. They are never "amazing" but they are good enough for me to do a pure 2flip alg sub 4, though admittedly they are NOT as nice as Dayans. Right now I just use regular reduction with 2pairing. 

My XCube *never* pops. Its fairly loose too. I get about one "pop" (meaning an internal piece comes out, that like little black piece..er..hard to explain, its the tiniest piece, its small...lol) about once every..50 solves? And its more because I get frustrated with me not improving and so I get rough. So its more a choice of smaller/slightly less nice inner layers/no pops over better quality overall turning/pops/bigger. It would be nice to have Dayan, as smaller, with less pops.


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## Kirjava (Mar 15, 2011)

EricReese said:


> My inner layers don't suck at all. This is a problem I feel as if the xcubes you have felt haven't been broken in enough.



You're wrong. No amount of breaking in will change how the mech handles.



EricReese said:


> They are never "amazing" but they are good enough for me to do a pure 2flip alg sub 4, though admittedly they are NOT as nice as Dayans.



I kinda lol'd. That's slow.



EricReese said:


> My XCube *never* pops. Its fairly loose too. I get about one "pop" (meaning an internal piece comes out, that like little black piece..er..hard to explain, its the tiniest piece, its small...lol) about once every..50 solves?


 
So it does pop.

I don't think you're fast enough to notice, but it appears that the xcube pops as much as any other cube. I asked around a few 'fast' people who use one before making this post and the general consensus is that it still pops from time to time.


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## maggot (Mar 15, 2011)

i agree that the xcube explodes from time to time. for me the explosions happen on PLL parity algs, the corner gets caught up on a center piece. i have done a little modding to try to make it better. rounding out the edges and corners seem to help tremendously. the biggest reason the explosion happens, however and unfortunately, is because of the sluggishness on the inner layer. it moves at a different speed from the outer layer. when doing R2' r2, the r slice is typically slightly misaligned before doing the U move. the fix is to grip the Rr tightly and kinda manhandle it. the sanding helped as well. 

the only thing that stands out from the dayan to the xcube to me is the slice feels a little sluggish in comparison, however the only time i ever spam slice moves is 1st 3 edges, L4C, and parity cases. however i would like to point out that my slice spamming consists of r's and r2's mostly, and the u and u'. i hardly ever do sequences of rur'. this is where the inner slice shows its true colors. sure, it wont make a good 2x2. the slow inner layers dont really show for me as much as people say they do in a typical 4x4 speedsolve.

i've done extensive solve on my xcube, with slight mods, and i prefer it strongly over the dayan. the dayan is a really great 4x4, but what it all boils down to for me is the size. popping/exploding aside, the slight resistance on the inner layer is something i live with because of the size of the dayan. if they made a 6cm dayan, it would be my cube of choice.

also, the xcube is supporting a member of the cubing community who did something great. imagine if tk had the amount of assets that dayan company has to develop a good cube. im sure the corners and edges of tk's cube wouldnt be so boxy and the slice turning would have been addressed before the final release.


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## yomaster (Mar 15, 2011)

If you want a 4x4 for a moderate price, you should get a Lanlan. It's really smooth and it's one of the best 4x4s. You can buy it on Amazon in white or black for only $10.50.


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## maggot (Mar 15, 2011)

yomaster said:


> If you want a 4x4 for a moderate price, you should get a Lanlan. It's really smooth and it's one of the best 4x4s. You can buy it on Amazon in white or black for only $10.50.



i disagree, lan lan is garbage. if you were asking 'what 4x4's are there?' then lan lan would be an answer. 

dayan, xcube. .


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## splinteh (Mar 15, 2011)

Some people think that if a cube is new, it means it's the best


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## maggot (Mar 15, 2011)

splinteh said:


> Some people think that if a cube is new, it means it's the best


 
typically newer cubes means more issues solved or more innovation. before v-cubish mechs (which are fairly recent), we had ballcores. v-cube mechs, as we found out, have many barriers to jump over to be suitable speedcubes. so, it is not that some people think the newest cube is the best cube. what came out after the guhong? feng V? yeah, that was an awesome cube! whats the newest 3x3? mf8 ballcore! let me rush out and get that one! the best cube is the cube that doesnt physically get in the way.


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## yomaster (Mar 16, 2011)

maggot said:


> i disagree, lan lan is garbage. if you were asking 'what 4x4's are there?' then lan lan would be an answer.
> 
> dayan, xcube. .


 
No, you're wrong. Lanlan is a really awesome cube and I highly recommend it.


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## Engberg91 (Mar 16, 2011)

yomaster said:


> No, you're wrong. Lanlan is a really awesome cube and I highly recommend it.


 
Which cube's do you compare with?


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## theace (Mar 16, 2011)

yomaster said:


> If you want a 4x4 for a moderate price, you should get a Lanlan. It's really smooth and it's one of the best 4x4s. You can buy it on Amazon in white or black for only $10.50.


 
If you want to throw it at people, yes it's amazing. It's horribly imbalanced in terms of Speed : Cutting. It's speedy as hell but can't cut for nuts. The lock ups are maddening and the size makes it even worse.


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## maggot (Mar 16, 2011)

yomaster said:


> No, you're wrong. Lanlan is a really awesome cube and I highly recommend it.


 
"BESTS: (2x2:1.28) (3x3:22.83) (4x4: 2:34.92)"

nuff said.


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## yomaster (Mar 16, 2011)

That's because I've only been solving 4x4 for less than a week. And I don't practice every minute of every day like some people. I have better things to do. I mean jeez, I'm only 11! It's not like I can get the world record or something!


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## EricReese (Mar 16, 2011)

any lookahead at all will get you sub 2. less then a week..you really aren't justified in saying whats good or not then..

so you only practice puzzles because you think you can get WR's then? Good luck.

Oh the complicated lives of 11 year olds. (lol...)


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## yomaster (Mar 16, 2011)

EricReese said:


> any lookahead at all will get you sub 2. less then a week..you really aren't justified in saying whats good or not then..
> 
> so you only practice puzzles because *you think you can get WR's* then? Good luck.
> Oh the complicated lives of 11 year olds]. (lol... I am weird)


 
I never said I would get WRs. I said the complete opposite!


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## Engberg91 (Mar 16, 2011)

Have you only tried out the lan lan?


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## EricReese (Mar 16, 2011)

yomaster said:


> That's because I've only been solving 4x4 for less than a week. And I don't practice ... I have better things to do....It's not like I can get the world record or something!


 
You implied in that post that you don't practice 4x4 because you believe its impossible for you to get a WR from doing it. Therefore that logic can be applied to all puzzles you solve, in which it brings to question why you cube, especially when you already implied you cube simply for the goal of attaining a WR.


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## freshcuber (Mar 16, 2011)

yomaster said:


> I never said I would get WRs. I said the complete opposite!


 
That was sarcasm...

If you've only been solving 4x4 for a week don't recommend on over the other. At least the other people debating in the thread have used multiple 4x4s and have been solving them for awhile. We also don't care how old you are. Many people believe that younger cubers have the potential to be faster because they have more free time, less responsibilities, and most things, like new cubes, are provided to them as gifts. Once you hit high school, start honors classes, and get a job, cubing has to be worked into your schedule where it fits.

The layer comparison of Dayan to X-Cube is really simple. Dayan has really good inners and tolerable outers. X-Cube has really good outers and okay inners. If the Dayan had just slightly faster outer layers and was the size of the X-Cube, I'd even be fine if it were a little larger, I'd use the Dayan as my main. But slow outers and behemoth size makes it awkward for me to use.


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## collinbxyz (Mar 16, 2011)

I got sub 2 pretty quick, when I'm 11...




EricReese said:


> any lookahead at all will get you sub 2. less then a week..you really aren't justified in saying whats good or not then..
> 
> so you only practice puzzles because you think you can get WR's then? Good luck.
> 
> *Oh the complicated lives of 11 year olds. *(lol...)



win


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## ianography (Mar 16, 2011)

EricReese said:


> any lookahead at all will get you sub 2. less then a week..you really aren't justified in saying whats good or not then..
> 
> so you only practice puzzles because you think you can get WR's then? Good luck.
> 
> *Oh the complicated lives of 11 year olds. *(lol...)


 
I say the same thing, except with middle school


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## Vinny (Mar 16, 2011)

yomaster said:


> That's because I've only been solving 4x4 for less than a week. And I don't practice every minute of every day like some people. I have better things to do. I mean jeez, I'm only 11! It's not like I can get the world record or something!


 
I didn't know we practiced all day... Because I definitely don't. Maybe I'm doin' it wrong.

EDIT: I also heard that the ghost Hand II is like an improved Shengshou.


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## maggot (Mar 16, 2011)

haha you guys are awesome. 

i work almost 80 hours a week, i have a wife and 2 kids, and on top of all of that im not exactly antisocial. and dont forget, i sleep too.

while i admit that i didnt get sub2 in 2 weeks, hell, even 6 months, i am far beyond that now. i own almost every speedcubeable 4x4 on the market meffert, qj, mini qj, rubiks, eastsheen, YJ, maru, shenshou, dayan, xcube, and the lanlan. i have broken in, modified, and solved each one of my 4x4's extensively (in which many of them i have more than 1).

also, i dont express the opinion of just myself. if you read the thread the top suggestions (in which i do not disagree) are maru, xcube, dayan, and shenshou. you stated lanlan, and i disagree with this suggestion. the cube is garbage. 

whats the best 3x3? posts: 
guhong
f2
a5
C4U

wait? what? no.


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## sa11297 (Mar 17, 2011)

Vinny said:


> EDIT: I also heard that the ghost Hand II is like an improved Shengshou.


 
i heard that also


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## collinbxyz (Mar 17, 2011)

Vinny said:


> I didn't know we practiced all day... Because I definitely don't. Maybe I'm doin' it wrong.
> 
> EDIT: I also heard that the ghost Hand II is like an improved Shengshou.


 
ghost hand II and shengshou are the exact same things.


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## Vinny (Mar 17, 2011)

collinbxyz said:


> ghost hand II and shengshou are the exact same things.


 
Yes but I've also heard they have a different feel even though they have the same pieces.


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