# 2 Quick questions



## oneshot (Jul 31, 2017)

What does this mean: 
*[U': [U' R' U, L2]]*
Specifically, what do the brackets mean and the colon mean?
It seems like there's so many more moves for OP versus 3style...

And on the speed solving wiki, there are average number of moves per method, but I don't see it for blind solving methods. Any info on average number of moves for OP/M2 versus 3style or Turbo?

Any info would be appreciated.


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## willtri4 (Jul 31, 2017)

That's the notation for commutators and conjugates.

Commutators: [A, B] = A B A' B'
Conjugates: [A: B] = A B A'

So *[U': [U' R' U, L2]]* = U' [U' R' U, L2] U = U' (U' R' U L2 U' R U L2) U = U2 R' U L2 U' R U L2 U


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## oneshot (Jul 31, 2017)

willtri4 said:


> That's the notation for commutators and conjugates.
> 
> Commutators: [A, B] = A B A' B'
> Conjugates: [A: B] = A B A'
> ...


Lol... I'll stick to OP/M2.


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## Alex B71 (Jul 31, 2017)

oneshot said:


> Lol... I'll stick to OP/M2.


Don't be scared off by it mate, once you get it you've got it. I'll put it like this - 
*[U': [U' R' U, L2]] *The first U' is the set up move. That will come at the start and end of the "alg" if it is needed. then the insertion is next (U' R' U), this is what is meant by "A" and finally the "L2" is the interchange and is the "B".

So, in this case set up move --> A --> B --->A' ---> B' ---> Undo set up move. Have a look at this Comm before you change you mind completely.

*[U' L' U, R2] *so that would be U' L' U, R2, U' L U, R2. This should work as i imagine you'll be using UBL as the buffer piece. play around with that and try adding a D2 as a set up move a little later on. It's also worth nothing it is a 3 cycle, so you'll have to do it twice from the solved state to see the case as it truly is, but i'm sure you know that.

Also, the A-Perm PLL is a commutator it's self (It falls into the category A9, but that stuffs not really important).

I should point out just in case that this is an intuitive method and not a "Learn ALGs of a sheet" type thing, it's slightly tricky to wrap your head round at first but once it's there it is there. Here's a quick example of the thought process i use when trying to create better cycles.

Are the two pieces "interchangeable"? if we look back at the example alg i showed we can see that the two target areas for the cylce (not including the buffer piece) can be swapped with 1 move, the R2. this shows us that they are interchangeable for the insertion that we are doing. Now if we look at the buffer piece and then to it's target it can be seen with the moves "U' L' U" we are simply slotting the piece, quite similar to doing basic F2L, into it's area and removing the next piece of the cycle into the Buffer (sort of...). Then with the "R2" interchange we are placing the next target location into the previous. Then simply undoing the insertion to both "re-fix" and place the next piece of the cycle into it's correct place, followed by the R2 to once again "re-fix" from the interchange.

It's does go slightly deeper than this and finding insertions can be somewhat tricky, but once with a good understanding of the method you can look at other peoples algs and instantly learn them. MANNN i went off on one. Don't give up on this it's really nice not doing a ton of Y-perms all the time. (Sorry if i missed anything! if theirs anything else i can try to help with i'd be happy to, i love talking about blind.)

_Extra information - youtube "Noah Arthurs 3-style tutorial"_


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## oneshot (Aug 30, 2017)

Alex B71 said:


> Don't be scared off by it mate, once you get it you've got it. I'll put it like this -
> *[U': [U' R' U, L2]] *The first U' is the set up move. That will come at the start and end of the "alg" if it is needed. then the insertion is next (U' R' U), this is what is meant by "A" and finally the "L2" is the interchange and is the "B".
> 
> So, in this case set up move --> A --> B --->A' ---> B' ---> Undo set up move. Have a look at this Comm before you change you mind completely.
> ...


Ok. You've convinced me to give it a try. I also want to learn 4bld so I'm deciding if I should do one or the other first. 

Two more questions. You can do 3style for corners and m2 for edges, right?

And is there less targets to memo because you solve more than one piece at a time?


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## Alex B71 (Aug 30, 2017)

oneshot said:


> Ok. You've convinced me to give it a try. I also want to learn 4bld so I'm deciding if I should do one or the other first.
> 
> Two more questions. You can do 3style for corners and m2 for edges, right?
> 
> And is there less targets to memo because you solve more than one piece at a time?


Same amount of targets to memo, and yeah you can do M2 for edges at the same time.


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## TheGrayCuber (Aug 30, 2017)

oneshot said:


> Ok. You've convinced me to give it a try. I also want to learn 4bld so I'm deciding if I should do one or the other first.
> 
> Two more questions. You can do 3style for corners and m2 for edges, right?
> 
> And is there less targets to memo because you solve more than one piece at a time?



To expand on what Alex said:

Yes, you solve two pieces at a time, but you need to know what both of those pieces are, so there is still the same amount of targets. The difference is that it OP, when you do an alg, it is for one target/letter. In 3-style, one commutator solves two targets/one letter pair. So you memorize the same amount but you solve a pair at a time rather than one letter.


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