# FMC with Different Methods



## byu (Apr 15, 2009)

I think this would be interesting. I know a lot of people use Petrus for FMC, but I'm thinking that other methods might work too, such as ZZ. So this is what I'm going to do, I'll post a scramble, and we can work together to find the best solution for each one. Then we can compare and note the advantages of each method for FMC.

SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2

Fridrich (44) -
CROSS (4): F L B F2
F2L #1 (4): R2 D R D'
F2L #2 (6): U' R U B R2 B'
F2L #3 (5): L' B' R' B L
F2L #4 (8): R2 B' R' B R B' *R' B*
OLL (10) : *B' R2* B2 R B' R B R2 U' B' U
PLL (10) : F2 D2 F U F' D2 F U' F R
NOTES: Bolded part becomes just R

Petrus (37)- 
2x2x3 block (9): L U' R' F2 R' U' L' D' B
EO (5): F' L F2 U F'
Pseudo F2L (8): L' D R2 D' L D R2 D'
ZBLL (14): L' U' L U' L U2 L2 U' L2 U' L2 U L U2
Undo pseudo (1): L

ZZ -
EOLine (8): F L D R B' L' U' F2
Blockbuilding #1: R' U B2 R2 B2 R2

Feel free to post new suggestions for each method. ZZ Users, I'm sure you can definitely find a better EOLine than my 8-mover (non ZZers, 9 move is the maximum, and there's only 1 case that has 9 moves) And as for the the first part of blockbuilding, I know you're not supposed to do F2 or B2, but it doesn't affect orientation, and I thought it would be good just to do it.


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## fanwuq (Apr 15, 2009)

I use no method for FMC. Just solve.


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 15, 2009)

byu said:


> SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2
> 
> Fridrich -
> Cross (6): D' R U' B L2 D2
> ...



That doesn't build a cross.

This builds a cross (on L) in 4 moves.
F L B F2


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## byu (Apr 15, 2009)

You're much better at FMC than I am.

F2L pair #1 : R2 D R D' ?
I think that's the best I can find right now.


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## EmersonHerrmann (Apr 15, 2009)

Petrus (not gonna do insertions and whatnot, just Petrus):
2x2x2 block: x2 L D2 L' U' F (5)
2x2x3 block: x2 Dw R' U2 R U' R (6)
Orient Edges: L F L' (3)
Rest of F2L: y' R U R' U2 R U R U' R U2 R2 (11)
OLL: U2 R U R' U (5)
PLL: F R B' R' F' R B2 L F' L' B' L F L' U (15)

x2 L D2 L' U' F x2 Dw R' U2 R U' R L F L' y' R U R' U2 R U R U' R U2 R2 U2 R U R' U F R B' R' F' R B2 L F' L' B' L F L' U (45)

Not FMC stuff...I could probably improve this significantly since the 2x2x3 can cancel into a few nice pairs...although one with a flipped edge and another with a flipped pair. Who knows, I could have tried them.

P.S. - For your cross: F L B F2 (4)

Cross on L, I could do something nice with this I'm sure but who knows, maybe your would turn out better. I must go do my homework so I cannot and probably will not get around to it. 

Edit: Damn, Bruce took my cross


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## MistArts (Apr 15, 2009)

byu said:


> SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2



F L B F2 (4)
R2 D R D' (8) 
U' R U B R2 B' (14)
L' B' R' B L (19)
R2 B' R' B R B' R' B (27)
B' R2 B2 R B' R B R2 U' B' U (38-3)
F2 D2 F U F' D2 F U' F R (44)

Somewhat linear. I wouldn't use full method in a FM solve though.


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## byu (Apr 15, 2009)

I see how the B and B' cancel out, and the R' and R2 become R, but that's -2, not -3 is it?

EDIT: Oh I see now, haha sorry.


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## DavidWoner (Apr 15, 2009)

SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2

R D B2 D2 B (5)

L U2 L' U F' U2 F2 (12)

L2 U' L' F' L F (18)

U2 L' U L F U2 F' (25)

B U2 B' U' B U' B' (32)

U F2 R2 F L F' R2 F L' F (42)

linear solve. I usually wouldn't bother with a start this bad. If you'd like to practice, you can insert those last 3 corners.


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## Johannes91 (Apr 15, 2009)

First try, linear, about 7 minutes. Almost Petrus.

Scramble: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2

S1+2: L U' R' F2 R' U' L' D' B (9)
S3: F' L F2 U F' (14)
Pseudo S4: L' D R2 D' L D R2 D' (22)
S5+6+7: L' U' L U' L U2 L2 U' L2 U' L2 U L U2 (36)
Undo pseudo: L (37)


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 15, 2009)

Block-building solution, not quite as good as the solution by Johannes.
Boldface indicates where there are moves that can be combined into a single move.
2x2x2: R D B2 D2 B (5)
2x2x3: L U L' F' L' *U2* (11)
F2L minus 1 slot: *U'* F' U F2 D F2 D' F' (18)
Edges: L2 F L' F' L2 D' L' D *L2* (27)
Four corners remain. Could be done without insertions as:
*L'* U' L D' L' U L (33)
F R2 F' L2 F R2 F' L2 D (42)
Should be able to get a little improvement with insertions.

EDIT:


Vault312 said:


> SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2
> 
> R D B2 D2 B (5)
> 
> ...



Final A-Perm could be done as:
*B* L' B R2 B' L B R2 B2 U (42-2 = 40)


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## DavidWoner (Apr 15, 2009)

cuBerBruce said:


> Final A-Perm could be done as:
> *B* L' B R2 B' L B R2 B2 U (42-2 = 40)



Of course, but I wanted to get back to playing video games so I just scribbled down the obvious one and stopped there


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## Cride5 (Apr 16, 2009)

byu said:


> SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2



This is what I got for ZZ.

EOLINE = 6: F' L2 D R L' B'
F2L = 20 : L' U2 L2 U' L R' U2 L2 U2 L, U2 R U R U2 R U R2 U' R'
OLL = 9 : y2 R2' D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R'
PLL = 12 : y' R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R', U'
TOTAL: 47

My OLL/PLL probably aren't optimal, and a colour neutral EOLine might be better..


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## Johannes91 (Apr 16, 2009)

Cride5 said:


> EOLINE = 6: F' L2 D R L' B'
> F2L = 20 : L' U2 L2 U' L R' U2 L2 U2 L, U2 R U R U2 R U R2 U' R'


Nice. I checked with my solver, and each of those 3 steps is optimal. Here's an alternative LL:

1x2x2 block = 7: y R' U' R U' R' U2 *R*
Rest = 9: *R* U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 U'

Which gives 42 moves. This is occasionally useful, although some of the ZBLL cases with a 1x2x2 block are quite nasty.



Cride5 said:


> a colour neutral EOLine might be better..


Here's one solution, although I cheated a bit; I found optimal EOLines with a computer and tried a few of them until I got a nice F2L.

But in FMC, where there's no strict time limit and taking moves back is ok, this could've been done entirely by hand, so I'll post it anyway.

Scramble: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2

EOLine: F D2 L2 D x' (4)
Left 1x2x3: U' R2 U R2 L U L2 (+7 => 11)
Pseudo F2L: R U2 R U2 R' U R (+7 => 18)
ZBLL: B U2 B2 D' B U' B' D B2 U' B' U' (+12 => 30)
Fix pseudo: R2 (+1 => 31)


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## Cride5 (Apr 16, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> I found optimal EOLines with a computer and tried a few of them until I got a nice F2L.



... what prog you using?



Johannes91 said:


> Scramble: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2
> 
> EOLine: F D2 L2 D x' (4)
> Left 1x2x3: U' R2 U R2 L U L2 (+7 => 11)
> ...



Lolz, no bad for a ZZ solve!

I'm used to my fixed ZZ colour scheme which I think is prob better for lookahead in speedsolving, but it looks like colour neutrality is deffo the way to go for FMC!


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## byu (Apr 16, 2009)

question: do you really know that ZBLL alg, or are you looking it up?


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## Johannes91 (Apr 16, 2009)

Cride5 said:


> ... what prog you using?


Ones I've written / am writing. There's a web interface here, and a few people seem to be using it, so I guess it's somewhat usable.



byu said:


> question: do you really know that ZBLL alg, or are you looking it up?


I knew it, and also the one I used in the Petrus solution.


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## Cride5 (Apr 16, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> Cride5 said:
> 
> 
> > ... what prog you using?
> ...



Nice work 

Any plans for move animations?


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## Swordsman Kirby (Apr 16, 2009)

byu said:


> question: do you really know that ZBLL alg, or are you looking it up?



Johannes probably knows a greater proportion of ZBLL algs than anyone else.


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## AvGalen (Apr 16, 2009)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> byu said:
> 
> 
> > question: do you really know that ZBLL alg, or are you looking it up?
> ...



Zbigniew Zborowski(the Z from ZB) and Jason Baum (not the B in ZB) might know more by now.



> but it looks like colour neutrality is deffo the way to go for FMC!


You'd think so?


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## Swordsman Kirby (Apr 17, 2009)

cuBerBruce said:


> byu said:
> 
> 
> > SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2
> ...



R2 D' B U using Johannes's cross solver (hey, I was lazy).


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## Swordsman Kirby (Apr 18, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Zbigniew Zborowski(the Z from ZB) and Jason Baum (not the B in ZB) might know more by now.



I don't think Jason has learned much since completing the T-orientation. Johannes claims to know at least 40% of ZBLL. As for ZZ, does ANYONE know?


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## Matthew (Apr 18, 2009)

Linear solve:

SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2

EO-Line: F L D R B' D' L D (8)

Left-side: L2 U' L U2 L' U L U2 L R' U2 L' (12 (20))

Rest: U' R' U' R U' R U2 R U2 R' U R U' R' U2 (15 (35))


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## Swordsman Kirby (Apr 18, 2009)

Matthew said:


> Linear solve:
> 
> SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 R B' L D2 F' L R U2 B' F U' F2 R2 F L2 B2 R2 U2
> 
> ...



EO-line: F L2 D L' R B'


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## JohnnyA (Apr 18, 2009)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Linear solve:
> ...



That's not an EO-line. It's a line.


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## Matthew (Apr 18, 2009)

JohnnyA said:


> Swordsman Kirby said:
> 
> 
> > EO-line: F L2 D L' R B'
> ...



Yes - that's EO-Line - I know about it but i start from a bit longer - later with this i couldn't find better solution (everything ~36 moves)

if you scramble with cross(line) color on top there is 5 moves (R' U' B L F) EO-Line - and also this 4-moves Johannes EO-Line ;]


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## JohnnyA (Apr 18, 2009)

Matthew said:


> JohnnyA said:
> 
> 
> > Swordsman Kirby said:
> ...



F L2 D L' R B' doesn't make EO line. It makes line. There are still 2 edges unoriented.


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## Matthew (Apr 18, 2009)

JohnnyA said:


> F L2 D L' R B' doesn't make EO line. It makes line. There are still 2 edges unoriented.



When you hold the cube with cross-color on bottom when you scramble it's ok.. - it makes EO-Line... - all edges are correctly oriented


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 18, 2009)

Matthew said:


> JohnnyA said:
> 
> 
> > F L2 D L' R B' doesn't make EO line. It makes line. There are still 2 edges unoriented.
> ...



It makes 3 lines: on D, on L, and on F. If you take the "line" to be the one on L or F, then it's not EO-line, but if you take the "line" to be the one on D, then it is EO-line.


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