# 5x5x5 Blindsolve Video



## Toojdwin (May 27, 2007)

Hey, one of guys should upload a video of a 5x5x5 blindsolve to Strange Puzzle or something. I know it would be really long, so you could just upload a video of the resolution part or something. If there already is one up somewhere, link me to it!



Trevor


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## Toojdwin (Jul 7, 2007)

Hey Trevor. I uploaded a 5x5x5 BLD video on youtube. Here's the URL: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-kzFib-3u-0 Hope you like it.


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## hait2 (Jul 8, 2007)

err schizo? 
really nice vid, i should really get into big cube bld.. seems like a lot of fun and excellent exercise for the mind! (amount of information to memorize in 3x3x3 was overwhelming at first but now it's just 'meh'.. hmm, maybe it's time to obtain a 5x5x5 or 4x4x4)


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## dbeyer (Jul 9, 2007)

We have been working on some videos. Sadly ... stupid errors brought many DNFs.

We now have obtained some very fast videos of Chris cubing along with me DNFing ... 

We just did a 2 cube multi bld (Chris) and a 5x5 bld (me)

It was quite interesting

We both made 1 error each. I had two disoriented centrals, and Chris was off by a 3-cycle 

Later,
Daniel Beyer


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## pjk (Jul 11, 2007)

What technique do you use to memorize the 5x5?


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## dbeyer (Jul 11, 2007)

I use Roman Rooms to file images. I turn cycles (using a buffer) into images, treating each cycle as a letter pair.

The image for CB would tell me Buffer -> C -> B


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## pjk (Jul 12, 2007)

That question was for Toojdwin, sorry Daniel.

I already know how amazingly you do it Daniel  Keep up the good work.


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## dbeyer (Jul 12, 2007)

I figured as much ... thanks anyway 

haha

Yes, Trevor, you memorize visually right!?
That's insane ...


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 12, 2007)

Actually, Trevor answered this in his original announcement of his first solve, although I didn't notice it at the time (I'm not sure why I didn't notice it before). He said:



> ...I don't use a special memory system or anything, I just memorize all the center pieces and wings with cycles of the letters A-X, and then I memo the middle edge pieces and corners with numbers, like on the 3x3x3. Then I solve in this order: Corners, Corner-Centers, Edge-Centers, Wings, and Middle-Edges.



So at least it's not purely visual. 

I'm going to try the 5x5x5 for the first time for the online competition this weekend, and I'm going to go in a similar order, but I'm doing Corners, Corner-Centers, Wings, Edge-Centers, and Middle Edges, so that it's just like a 4x4x4 solve until I hit the Edge-Centers. Somehow that makes it feel less daunting. Middle Edges last allows you to not worry about messing with the centers, so some of the 3x3x3 3-cycle algorithms will work on them and you can solve them just like you do the 3x3x3 (with a restriction on the algorithms that work). I use images with the letter pairs, like Chris and Daniel (although I don't have any memorized, so I have to construct them on the fly, which sometimes takes a lot of time), but I don't bother with a journey to anchor them; it doesn't really seem necessary to me. Maybe I'll need it if I'm trying to go faster, but at my speed, I don't have any trouble remembering the story without locations to anchor them.


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## Toojdwin (Jul 13, 2007)

Yeah, I use letters, but I also tap the pieces and remember which direction the next piece in the cycle is from the current piece, and stuff like that.

Wow, good luck, Mike. It's a lot of fun. Are you going to pair up the wings with their correct edges, and then solve the edges like a 3x3x3?


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## pjk (Jul 13, 2007)

I see. Where did you learn to do the actual solving stage? Did you just read the Big-Cube tutorial that Chris and Daniel made?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 13, 2007)

Toojdwin said:


> Wow, good luck, Mike. It's a lot of fun. Are you going to pair up the wings with their correct edges, and then solve the edges like a 3x3x3?



No, I've walked through several sighted 5x5x5 attempts, and it works well to just solve it like a 4x4x4 BLD up until the center edges, so here's what I do (it's really very close to Chris and Daniel's method, except that I never saw a tutorial on the 5x5x5 instead of the 4x4x4, so I had to come up with my own method for the middle edges):
1. Solve the corners. Leave parity for later, if there is one.
2. Solve the center corners.
3. Solve the wing edges, leaving the middle edges exactly where they started.
4. Solve the center edges. (I've noticed that for commutators, these are the easiest of all commutators to do!)
5. Solve the middle edges, doing it exactly like I would the 3x3x3. So first I do edge orientation, which I can do safely without messing up wing edges or centers using M' U' M' U' M' U2 M U' M U' M U2, and then I do edge permutation, which I always use the algorithm M' U2 M U2 with setup moves to do. I use this algorithm a lot on the 3x3x3 anyway, so I'm used to thinking of the setup moves to use it.
6. Fix parities, exactly like Chris describes in his original 4x4x4 tutorial.

I use commutators exactly like Chris and Daniel describe in the tutorials for centers and wings - their stuff really helped in figuring them out. That was the hardest part - learning how to do the commutators, and then learning to do them reliably.

I can see how matching the wings with the middle edges might have some advantages. You'd not have the limitation of just a few algorithms that work - you could use all your normal 3x3x3 algorithms (as long as the centers and wings have been finished first!), and it seems like it's a little easier to figure out which side of the middle edge each wing piece goes to than it is when matching the centers. But you have the disadvantage of having to look for the middle edge piece as you look for where each edge piece goes, whereas with my method you know right away if you know the color scheme. All things told, though, I think your suggestion makes a lot of sense - I'm tempted to switch, but probably I won't switch until after my first couple of attempts. It is a cool idea.

So Trevor, what's your process?


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## Toojdwin (Jul 13, 2007)

Hey, Mike, that's the same thing I do for the middle edges. Orient with M'UM'UM'U2MUMUMU2, permute with commutators. And since they are always oriented correctly I can always use the same style commutator every time.

Yeah, I learned from Chris' and Daniel's tutorials, and I came up with a few things on my own.

I don't actually pair up the wings with edges, I just thought you might. Well, first I solve the corners like normal (Orient-Permute), because I can just quickly memo those right before donning the blindfold.Then I do X-centers or corner centers, then the t-centers or edge centers. All with commutators, of course. I do centers first so that I won't have to worry about algs being center-safe (no net rotation and no moving around), such as the wing parity alg. Then I solve the wings with commutators. That's my favorite part. Then I finish off with the edges. I orient-permute, like you. I get the first 2 edges in the top layer, and then the 3rd edge in the middle layer. Then I solve it with an easy commutator. For example: if I was going to perform the cycle 128 (or UF-UL-RF) I would do U(LE'L')U'(LEL) Then, If there's an edge parity, such as (13) (24), then I perform the cycles (132) and then (142) If I have a Corner-Edge parity, I get the 2 edges in the UF and UB positions, and then do the alg r2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 r2 to swap their wings, then I just fix the parity like a 3x3 corner-edge parity.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 13, 2007)

Wow, that is really close to the same as my method. The two main differences are:

1. I do the wing edges before the edge centers, simply because I like it to be the same order as the 4x4x4 BLD. But I wait on any parity until the end, which I guess means I have the disadvantage of remembering it while I do the edge centers. But it's not really that big of a deal to remember parities - it's only a little to remember. (Famous last words - I'll probably forget a parity now on my first nearly-successful solve.)
2. I don't bother with commutators on solving the middle edges; I just use the single algorithm M' U2 M U2 and its mirrors and reverses with setup moves. I find it's a little easier for me, since I'm good at those setup moves (from 3x3x3 BLD) so I can do them almost without thinking. Many times it's fewer moves than commutators (although I'm not sure how it averages out).

I do the same thing you do with handling 2 2-cycles of edges, for both wings and middle edges - 2 3-cycles to fix.

The wings with commutators are the hardest part for me. They're fun, but it seems really hard to avoid making mistakes. I've made 5 tries at 4x4x4 BLD - I got 2 right, and on all 3 of the ones I missed, my primary mistake was in doing the wing commutators wrong somewhere. Twice the centers were perfect, but the edges were messed up, and the third time corners were messed up presumably because I forgot to restore setup moves somewhere.

I also figured out everything from the tutorials by Chris and Daniel. I started reading them Tuesday, June 26, and on Wednesday, July 4, I got my first successful 4x4x4 BLD solve (8 days later). So obviously they're pretty well-written tutorials - thank you, Chris and Daniel!!!


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## Toojdwin (Jul 13, 2007)

Wow that M'U2MU2 thing is really great. I think I'm going to start using that instead.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 13, 2007)

Great. Here I was hoping to someday be half as fast as you, and now I sped you up. You'll probably be as fast as Mátyás soon. (And I doubt I'll ever be half as fast as Mátyás.) Oh, well. 

Just joking - seriously, I'd be glad if I helped you in any way.


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## dbeyer (Jul 20, 2007)

M'U2MU2M'U2MU2 is center safe 

Chris and I do not orient first, we directly permute all centrals with commutators. The system is small enough (relative to the task at hand) that you can learn an "alg" for each cycle.

If you look at the lFU and rUF wings as different orientations of UF central (3x3 edge) you can can learn intuitively apply commutators to Edges just like you do centers or wings.

Oh yes, Mike, at first, I didn't anchor images in locations such as roman rooms or journeys. I just grouped like three images together, and remembered the interaction of them all.

I am still working on some of the mental aspects of it ... this is such fun!!

Later,
Daniel Beyer


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## dbeyer (Jul 20, 2007)

When I get the time I'll have to show some tricks for centrals, and t-centers. I've been so busy, I haven't cubed much, and hadn't found the time to touch up my How-to guide.

r2 has a lot of merrit too mind you!!

Later,
Daniel Beyer


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 20, 2007)

R2 looks nice, but I haven't had time to really figure it out yet. Maybe I'll tackle it someday soon.

Daniel, I'd love to see anything you have to offer - your guides so far were definitely quite helpful!


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