# Poll: Best Technique To Improve Time



## Alex DiTuro (Feb 15, 2010)

What do you guys think? I prefer minimizing cube rotations; it's brought my time down about 2-3 seconds


This is meant for someone who can solve consistantly under 15s (elite cubers) and since practice isn't really an issue for them and their look-ahead is obviously good I wanted to know what they think is the best advanced technique (look-ahead and practice aren't advanced techniques)


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## Muesli (Feb 15, 2010)

Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve Solve over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.


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## ianini (Feb 15, 2010)

The "P" word.


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## Alex DiTuro (Feb 15, 2010)

Polls Up


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## Edward (Feb 15, 2010)

Spoiler



L
O
O
K
A
H
E
A
D


No matter what method you use, it works...


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## Alex DiTuro (Feb 15, 2010)

ianini said:


> The "P" word.





I mean like if you have sub 20 times and you're looking to shed as many seconds off your time as possible. Advanced Stuff


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## daniel5 (Feb 15, 2010)

Look Ahead^^


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## josmil1 (Feb 15, 2010)

practice over and over


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## 4Chan (Feb 15, 2010)

Definitely not advanced LL techniques. Dx


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## Alex DiTuro (Feb 15, 2010)

Edward said:


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Ja, forgot to add that


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## cincyaviation (Feb 15, 2010)

Alex DiTuro said:


> Edward said:
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yes, yes you did


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## ianini (Feb 15, 2010)

Look ahead and practice. That's it. Some oll's wouldn't hurt.


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## brunson (Feb 15, 2010)

You need to qualify improvement from where. You and I are about the same speed and I need lookahead. Someone who is already sub-20 would have different areas for improvement as would someone who is sub-15. Also, at our level I would think full PLL would be necessary for improvement.


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## gamemeister27 (Feb 15, 2010)

Minimize cube rotations, it helps with all methods. Color neutrality is better for some methods than others. For Fridrich, it doesn't make too much of a difference (according to the data gathered by Lars Vandenbergh) but for Petrus, it makes the first step much easier. Advanced ll techniques are iffy in my opinion because the sheer number of cases might reduce recognition to the point where the speed balances out.


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## Alex DiTuro (Feb 15, 2010)

brunson said:


> You need to qualify improvement from where. You and I are about the same speed and I need lookahead. Someone who is already sub-20 would have different areas for improvement as would someone who is sub-15. *Also, at our level I would think full PLL would be necessary for improvement*.




Agreed 

I meant for someone who can solve consistantly under 15s (elite cubers) and since practice isn't really an issue for them and their look-ahead is obviously good I wanted to know what they think is the best advanced technique (look-ahead and practice aren't advanced techniques)


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## Edward (Feb 15, 2010)

Alex DiTuro said:


> brunson said:
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> > You need to qualify improvement from where. You and I are about the same speed and I need lookahead. Someone who is already sub-20 would have different areas for improvement as would someone who is sub-15. *Also, at our level I would think full PLL would be necessary for improvement*.
> ...


But GOOD lookahead and EFFICIENT practice can take months to master.


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## Alex DiTuro (Feb 15, 2010)

Edward said:


> Alex DiTuro said:
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This poll was meant for advanced techniques. YES, I understand Look-ahead and practice are EXTREMELY important, but aside from those, what other techniques would be the best to invest time into?


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## ianini (Feb 15, 2010)

Alex DiTuro said:


> Edward said:
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To answer your question, COLL would be useful. Also x-cross might help.


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## PatrickT (Feb 15, 2010)

I know quite a few sub-15 cubers and I must say they don't do anything particularly special. It really is just what everyone else has been saying -- look ahead and practice. Just think about the time break-down. If you want to be 14 seconds then you could do a 10 second f2l (all look-ahead) and a 4 second last layer (all practice/finger tricks).

Other things that they do are algorithms from different angles instead of AUFing or rotating the cube. For the purposes of your poll I would probably vote this, since it applies to F2L as well as last layer. But I don't know why you consider this an advanced technique whereas look ahead/practice are "not."

I know a couple of them tried COLL but didn't think it's worth it. There are like two people who do MGLS which looks pretty good, and a couple of cases are worth learning anyway. I don't know any sub-15ers who do VHF2L, but I know someone sub-20 who does it. It's good to be able to do some LL edge control, but VHF2L is unnecessary.

I don't personally know any color neutral people. I think it's worth it to be white/yellow color neutral or whatever color is opposite your normal cross, as it's basically the same and I've seen a few sub-15 people do that. But it's definitely not necessary for sub-15.


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## Alex DiTuro (Feb 15, 2010)

PatrickT said:


> I know quite a few sub-15 cubers and I must say they don't do anything particularly special. It really is just what everyone else has been saying -- look ahead and practice. Just think about the time break-down. If you want to be 14 seconds then you could do a 10 second f2l (all look-ahead) and a *4 second last layer *(all practice/finger tricks).
> 
> Other things that they do are algorithms from different angles instead of AUFing or rotating the cube. For the purposes of your poll I would probably vote this, since it applies to F2L as well as last layer. But I don't know why you consider this an advanced technique whereas look ahead/practice are "not."
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Wow, your fingertricks must own = o My LL is usually about 8 to 9 seconds with a 12 - 13 seconds F2L

I missed a bunch of techniques (empty slot, X-cross, Solving from different angles), Probably should have put some thought into this poll = P

I put minimizing cube rotations as an advanced technique because it is not one of the main things they tell you to work on after a cfop tutorial. It's mostly practice and to look ahead.


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## lorki3 (Feb 15, 2010)

Edward said:


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I agree ''P'' word and lookahead
''P'' word is


Spoiler



practise practise


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## DavidWoner (Feb 15, 2010)

Other- JUST F%#$ING PRACTICE


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## PatrickT (Feb 15, 2010)

Alex DiTuro said:


> PatrickT said:
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> > I know quite a few sub-15 cubers and I must say they don't do anything particularly special. It really is just what everyone else has been saying -- look ahead and practice. Just think about the time break-down. If you want to be 14 seconds then you could do a 10 second f2l (all look-ahead) and a *4 second last layer *(all practice/finger tricks).
> ...



The 4 second LL is on the low end of the range for me. More reasonable is 9 second F2L and 5 second last layer. 6 second last layer is on the slow end. I'm pretty sure the former WR holder had a consistent 3 second last layer. 

If you have a 9 second last layer you should probably learn better ways to do your algs, or just practice a lot more.


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## Alex DiTuro (Feb 15, 2010)

PatrickT said:


> Alex DiTuro said:
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We talkin' bout PRACTICE!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI LOL

I should probably learn better algs for my PLL and get a better cube... my y perm is usually around 3.5 seconds no lie, I'm pretty sure its my cube.....


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## ElderKingpin (Feb 15, 2010)

is it your cube? is it really?
when did you last lube it
what type is it


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## Dene (Feb 15, 2010)

Alex DiTuro said:


> This is meant for someone who can solve consistantly under 15s (elite cubers) and since practice isn't really an issue for them and their look-ahead is obviously good



Are you so sure about that?


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## Alex DiTuro (Feb 15, 2010)

Dene said:


> Alex DiTuro said:
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> > This is meant for someone who can solve consistantly under 15s (elite cubers) and since practice isn't really an issue for them and their look-ahead is obviously good
> ...




I was.......




ElderKingpin said:


> is it your cube? is it really?
> when did you last lube it
> what type is it




Its a storebought that I bought 5 days ago.. I dremeled it down and CRCed it but it clicks and locks up a lot o.o


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## Daniel Wu (Feb 16, 2010)

Alex DiTuro said:


> Dene said:
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According to my most recent 500/500 average from CCT, I average 15.70 and my look ahead could be a lot better. I need much, much more time to practice.


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## ElderKingpin (Feb 16, 2010)

> Its a storebought that I bought 5 days ago.. I dremeled it down and CRCed it but it clicks and locks up a lot o.o



Why do you have a storebought at sub-20 O.O


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## gboh19 (Feb 16, 2010)

If it is practise; then .... Slow solves will do.

Slow Solves then improve look ahead along with it. After that just keep on practising and gradually turn faster.


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## qqwref (Feb 16, 2010)

Other: turn faster and learn to lookahead while doing so.

You can get well under 10 seconds with standard, pure Fridrich.


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## Dene (Feb 16, 2010)

Alex DiTuro said:


> Dene said:
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Just so you know, I did average sub15 once upon a time, and my lookahead is still terrible.


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## eastamazonantidote (Feb 16, 2010)

COLL and VHF2L are nice (especially the skips!) but unneeded. You just need to get fast look ahead, better LL case recognition (PLL rec by 2 faces), and fewer cube rotations (actually makes a huge difference). However, I'm at 25 seconds, so what do I know?


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## josmil1 (Feb 16, 2010)

not to be rude or anything but u answered your own question. But the "p" word is also another answer


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## cooldayr (Feb 16, 2010)

silicon OIL
beats any lube i have ever tried by far 
brought my 5x5 time from 5 min avg to 4:30 avg
no lock ups
perfectly smooth


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## shelley (Feb 17, 2010)

Alex DiTuro said:


> I meant for someone who can solve consistantly under 15s (elite cubers) and since *practice isn't really an issue for them and their look-ahead is obviously good* I wanted to know what they think is the best advanced technique (look-ahead and practice aren't advanced techniques)



How would you know? Have you been there? And you should know that practice is an issue for anyone. You can't get magically faster without practice, even if you do learn advanced techniques.

There are definitely advanced techniques to look into once you get to around 15 seconds, e.g. COLL, VHF2L, multislotting, etc. But when you compare me (~16 seconds average) and someone who averages 12-13, the difference has less to do with those advanced techniques than sheer lookahead and finger speed.


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## Olivér Perge (Feb 17, 2010)

shelley said:


> Alex DiTuro said:
> 
> 
> > I meant for someone who can solve consistantly under 15s (elite cubers) and since *practice isn't really an issue for them and their look-ahead is obviously good* I wanted to know what they think is the best advanced technique (look-ahead and practice aren't advanced techniques)
> ...



What Shelley said.

And btw, in my opinion sub15 is far from elite.

Suddenly everyone is rushing into these topics and needs a magical method for improving instead of sitting down and practicing *a lot*...


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## DavidSanders (Feb 17, 2010)

Take ADD stimulant medication.


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## Alex DiTuro (Feb 17, 2010)

ElderKingpin said:


> > Its a storebought that I bought 5 days ago.. I dremeled it down and CRCed it but it clicks and locks up a lot o.o
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> *Why do you have a storebought at sub-20 O.O*





I have a AI, but I really don't like it. It's the tensions I'm sure of it. I reset them, and it worked great, but its all screwed up again. I should be getting a yong jun 3x3 from popbuying as well as a yj 4x4, a qj mini, and a qj pyraminx. I just came back from a long break from cubing, so I gave away a lot of my cubes = P





shelley said:


> *How would you know? Have you been there?* And you should know that practice is an issue for anyone. You can't get magically faster without practice, even if you do learn advanced techniques.
> 
> There are definitely advanced techniques to look into once you get to around 15 seconds, e.g. COLL, VHF2L, multislotting, etc. But when you compare me (~16 seconds average) and someone who averages 12-13, the difference has less to do with those advanced techniques than sheer lookahead and finger speed.




Jeez, you don't have be so mean about it. Thank you for the advice, though.


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## fundash (Feb 21, 2010)

PRACTICE


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