# Marijuana - good or bad?



## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 8, 2009)

Opinions on weed/pot/marijuana/etc..

Just for personal research.


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## Tim Major (Nov 8, 2009)

GOOOOOD. NOOOOT! Has anyone been offered it? I have, but I go to a public school, so I have an excuse...


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

Pothead are morons.


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## Edward (Nov 8, 2009)

Depends on the usage. Someone might need it for medical reasons. Other than that, I don't see any other good use of any drug.


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## Inf3rn0 (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Pothead are morons.



Exactly. You must be stupid to take it.


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 8, 2009)

Isn't everything good in moderation?


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Isn't everything good in moderation?



Bullet in the face
Knife in the face
Thrown off a cliff
Drowning
Burned alive

Nope I do believe none of those are good in moderation


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Isn't everything good in moderation?



Lol Theravada Buddhism

Weed is a lot safer than tobacco. So IMO tobacco users are more stupid than weed users. Weed is relatively safe in comparison to other illegal drugs.


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## V-te (Nov 8, 2009)

Marijuana is not a drug, it's an herb.

Yes everything is good in moderation. Marijuana can be treated like alcohol and cigarettes:Too much of it, and it will be bad. The only downside I can think of would be people abusing it. (but they already do that with alcohol and cigars).

It's good for the economy, good for self-esteem, good for the general protection of the public, good for the state, and the public (as less people will go to jail). Legalization, where are you?


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

V-te said:


> Marijuana is not a drug, it's an herb.
> 
> Yes everything is good in moderation. Marijuana can be treated like alcohol and cigarettes:Too much of it, and it will be bad. The only downside I can think of would be people abusing it. (but they already do that with alcohol and cigars).



Just because it is a herb, doesn't mean that it isn't a drug. It is. Being a "drug" just refers to how it the substance is used.

The only downside of marijuana is money. You can't OD. You would asphyxiate first.

And as Derrick pointed out, not everything is good in moderation. 
I can't imagine heroin being good in moderation.


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## V-te (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


> V-te said:
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Well yes, but the fact that it's an herb means that it does not contain any synthetic substance unless it's added to it, so It's already cleaner than any other drug. 
Could you please tell me what OD is? I don't really understand it.

Obviously not everything is, and also depends on how moderation applies to the object. Moderation for heroin might be once a year, while moderation for marijuana might be 3 times a week or less. It just depends on what moderation means.


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

V-te said:


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Well, does anything ever have synthetic substances? How can anything ever be fake and not natural to this world? Conservation of mass law. That's why when they say "100% natural" on orange juice cartons, its complete BS. Everything is 100% natural.

OD just means overdose. It just means that you ingested too much of a certain substance so that it becomes harmful and possible lethal. I don't know the details.

I don't think that Heroin once a year is good. lol Heroin never is good.
It is still very dangerous even if used in "moderation."


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## blade740 (Nov 8, 2009)

I think it depends on the person. I know people who get really dumb when they're high, and do dumb things. There's no point to that. However, I also know people that smoke every day, and are perfectly functional. I've suffered from insomnia for years and use it to help with that but I'd be lying if I said I didn't do it recreationally too. I'd much rather be high than drunk: I feel more in control of myself and my actions.

Legalization is coming in the united states. It's pretty much unstoppable at this point.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

Arguments like this go nowhere.

So the last thing I will add to this yet again is, Potheads are morons


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## blade740 (Nov 8, 2009)

And I'll add on top of that that canadians are morons.


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Arguments like this go nowhere.




It's helping me build an opinion on the matter though, and make more informed decisions


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## nzcuber40 (Nov 8, 2009)

V-te said:


> Marijuana is not a drug, it's an herb.
> 
> Yes everything is good in moderation. Marijuana can be treated like alcohol and cigarettes:Too much of it, and it will be bad. The only downside I can think of would be people abusing it. (but they already do that with alcohol and cigars).
> 
> It's good for the economy, good for self-esteem, good for the general protection of the public, good for the state, and the public (as less people will go to jail). Legalization, where are you?



yes and no. yes, it is a herb(lol)
but no, every thing is really bad in moderation. My opinion anyway.


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## blade740 (Nov 8, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
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Don't base your opinion on the opinions of others. Do a bit of research and make your OWN decision based on FACTS.


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## V-te (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


> V-te said:
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Yes, but cigarettes are supposed to be tobacco, yet they contain many more chemicals that are added in the factory. One of the reasons that MJ is healthier than cigarettes is that it is in it's pure form, without anything added to it. You only ingest what's in the plant.

Everything is dangerous, moderated or not (just look at G bush), but that's where common sense comes in. (which a lot of americans don't have)



Derrick Eide17 said:


> Arguments like this go nowhere.



We have to talk about this. The attitude that it will go nowhere has given us just that. We have to talk and stop thinking negatively.


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

blade740 said:


> BeautifullyDecayed. said:
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Opinions of others are also important to know also though. That way if you need to, you can be "socially correct."


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

blade740 said:


> And I'll add on top of that that canadians are morons.



You don't mean that at all 
Potheads actually ARE morons though seriously  you see the way they act? I rest my case   =D


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 8, 2009)

blade740 said:


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I know a lot about it, I guess.
I just like to know peoples reasons behind doing it or not doing it.


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## qqwref (Nov 8, 2009)

Marijuana is bad in the sense that it's a drug, so if you're not OK with the concept of recreational drug use you definitely won't be cool with pot. (Personally I don't do any illegal drugs, but I don't think it's really wrong to.) On the other hand, as far as I know it's one of the safest drugs there is, so from that standpoint I'd say it's a good thing: if you're only going to do one drug, having that one drug be marijuana is a really good decision.

Here's a link to an admittedly biased (but probably close to correct) table of the number of deaths due to various drugs and other things: http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30. They give a count of 0 for marijuana, and while that may not be entirely true, it's clearly nowhere near as dangerous as alcohol and tobacco (which are both completely legal for sufficiently old people).


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## blade740 (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> blade740 said:
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Canadians actually ARE morons though seriously  you see the way you act? I rest my case   =D


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

nzcuber40 said:


> V-te said:
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Everything is dangerous even in moderation? If dangerous means that there is a unusually high risk of something bad happening, what is so dangerous about taking off your socks in "moderation?"


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

blade740 said:


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see just look at the way your acting  can't come up with anything so you copy me... poor poor blade....


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 8, 2009)

What's the risk of something else being added to it though, so it isn't pure?
Also, is it addictive?


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## V-te (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


> nzcuber40 said:
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I'm sorry Weston could you please rephrase that? I have a headache so I might have some trouble following. I'm not really a metaphor person.


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## blade740 (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


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Actually, I was pointing out that you're generalizing. You don't know all potheads, and I don't know all canadians. It's fallacious for either of us to make those statements.

And I know plenty of intelligent "potheads." (and canadians)


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

V-te said:


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lol im just saying that to make statements like "everything is ____" are never any good in debates/arguments. I just made a silly example that "taking off your socks in moderation is not dangerous"




BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Also, is it addictive?


From what I hear, no it isn't. Unless its laced with crack. Then its dangerous and addictive.


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## blade740 (Nov 8, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> What's the risk of something else being added to it though, so it isn't pure?
> Also, is it addictive?



Nearly no risk of something being added, as long as you're smart in buying it. If you buy pre-ground material there's a chance something else has been ground up and mixed in, but most people buy whole buds of the plant. While they could be soaked in some sort of liquid, that would be expensive, and if I was going to lace it, I would sell it at the higher price and tell the customer it's laced. Neither I nor anyone I know has ever gotten laced weed.

As to whether it's addictive: It's not physically addictive (in the way alcohol, heroin, nicotine, etc are), but it can be mentally addictive. All that really means, though, is that you may like it and want more. Food is mentally addictive.


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## V-te (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


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Oh I see what you are saying. You're a literal person aren't you? 

Well yes, it is is wrong to say "Everything is _____" but that's where our common sense comes in and tells us that everything must not be everything. 

Unless we're literal of course.


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

V-te said:


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## V-te (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

V-te said:


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## V-te (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


> The only problem with it for me is its "gateway drug" property.



Ok, could you please explain what you mean by that?


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

Sigh... lol.

Fine. But I'm going to bed after this lol.

So, many of the people who use harder and more dangerous drugs started doing drugs initially with marijuana. Marijuana is often the first drug that people use that introduced them into drug use. Since it often leads to people doing harder drugs, it is called the "gateway drug."

That was a horrible explanation because I'm way too tired right now. Theres always google.


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## blade740 (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


> The only problem with it for me is its "gateway drug" property.



The "gateway" effect is misinterpreted: the kind of people that would do other drugs would also smoke marijuana, not the other way around. Anyone who is smart enough to look into what he's doing before taking drugs will realize the difference between marijuana and cocaine.


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## V-te (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


> Sigh... lol.
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> Fine. But I'm going to bed after this lol.
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Ok thank you. Like I've said, I live off my cynicism so I don't really know these metaphors people use. My serious flaw. lol.


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## qqwref (Nov 8, 2009)

I don't really agree with the "gateway drug" concept either. Statistically speaking, not all that many people who use common drugs like alcohol or pot will move onto dangerous stuff like cocaine or heroin; on the other hand, I can imagine that quite a large proportion of people who are going to use dangerous drugs will start out with stuff like pot and alcohol. So I'd say the gateway drug effect is more the fault of the kind of people who are going to use any drug they can get their hands on, rather than the fault of marijuana itself.

A similar argument is the one linking violent video games and killers... while it's true that some people who were obsessed with death and ended up brutally murdering someone started out playing the games, it's never the games that caused it - they were usually like that before they started playing that kind of game. If you tried to argue that violent games lead to actual killings, you'd be completely ignoring the 99.99% of people who play those games for fun and *don't* end up being mass/serial murderers.


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## Zane_C (Nov 8, 2009)

I'm not ganna say much, the last time I expressed my full opinion on something i got banned, (it was religeon by the way)
Ilicid (illegal) drugs in my opinion are very stupid. Even if your've screwed up your life, drugs are a bad way to go.
Sure, if you wanna destroy your brain cells and have other mental and physical issues, go right ahead.
Not only will it effect your mental and physical health, but when people no you take pot, your social life might go low.
If your going to try it, I couldn't care less, it's your life. For your own sake, don't get hooked on the stuff.

Oh yeah, your question was marijuana, good or bad?
It's BAD!
Drugs are bad Mmmmkay


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

blade740 said:


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You know plenty of potheads?
No wonder I don't like you


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## blade740 (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> You know plenty of potheads?
> No wonder I don't like you



Aww...but I like you! 

What makes you say that potheads are morons?


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## Crossed (Nov 8, 2009)

Marijuana is better than alcohol.
Prove me wrong with reliable sources.


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## joey (Nov 8, 2009)

How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal
And how many deaths are there per year from alcohol

Err, well actually according to research
Government funding for further education pales in insignificance
When compared to how much they spend on repairing
Leery drunk people at the weekend
In casualty wards all over the land.


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## Bryan (Nov 8, 2009)

V-te said:


> Well yes, but the fact that it's an herb means that it does not contain any synthetic substance unless it's added to it, so It's already cleaner than any other drug.



So, it's just as clean as arsenic? 



Crossed said:


> Marijuana is better than alcohol.
> Prove me wrong with reliable sources.



Apples are better than oranges. Prove me wrong with reliable sources.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2009)

Just say 'No'...


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## cookingfat (Nov 8, 2009)

joey said:


> How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal
> And how many deaths are there per year from alcohol
> 
> Err, well actually according to research
> ...



+ 1million


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## Twofu2 (Nov 8, 2009)

Meh drugs. I saw what happened to people, never going to do drugs...


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## Muesli (Nov 8, 2009)

The problem with Marijuana, is not that it is a "Gateway drug" as such. It is a "catalyst" drug. Legalising Marijuana will pave the way for slightly harder drugs to be legalised. Next time it will be LSD or a similar that will be being argued about. I would bet a large amount of money that more people die from Alcohol than from LSD so they could use the same argument.

tl;dr: It's the concept, rather than the actual substance.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2009)

More people die from alcohol because it's legal. If you made these other drugs more accessible then you would see more death from these drugs, maybe not as much as alcohol because so many people drink, but you would still see more.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 8, 2009)

@Edmund: That's blatantly false. Millions of people around the world use marijuana, but it has yet to cause a recorded death. That's a HUGE sample size. If you legalized marijuana, even if ten times as many people smoked it, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that the number of deaths would go from 0 to 85,000.

Anyway, I fail to see anything wrong with marijuana whatsoever. The medicinal purposes far outweigh any known negative effects. The recreational purposes also really aren't bad at all. I've been around high people many times, and I haven't seen anybody do something particularly dangerous that they wouldn't do sober. 

Can someone please explain to me what is so bad with a person choosing to smoke marijuana in the privacy of his home? 

Also, to Zane C: Please explain the negative effects that marijuana will have on me mentally, physically, and socially. You pretty much just repeated crap from health class and I know that you won't have anything to back it up, considering that you also seem to believe that you can become physically addicted to marijuana.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2009)

I wasn't saying marijuana I was saying all illegal drugs, and marijuana good be gateways that lead to the legalization of other drugs.


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## 04mucklowd (Nov 8, 2009)

I've seen people at my school who were nice kids in lower years, smoke green and become awful people.

Cannabis really does ruin you life one way or another


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## HowSuneIsNow (Nov 8, 2009)

I am a 26 year old man. I have never in my life used marijuana and it is a personal choice. I also have no problem with it. marijuana is far less dangerous than both cigarettes or alcohol. Marijuana prohibition is far more detrimental to society and individuals than marijuana itself.

That said I am not a huge fan of potheads. I have friends who smoke weed, but I remember how lame it was in highschool hanggn out with friends and most of our time was spent finding pot, finding what to smoke it in/with, finding where to smoke it and then them being completely high and stupid.

Who knows what the two biggest sponsors of DARE are? The alcohol and tobacco industry. they ahev a vested interest in havign less competition and if you believe their lies and propaganda you are just as stupid as the worst pot head.

more people die from alcohol because it's legal FALSE!
alcohol is bad for your body when used in large quantities. if you wanted to OD from the active ingredient in weed you would actually die from lack of oxygen first. drunk driving is far more dangerous and deadly than high driving. Frequently alcohol contributes to domestic violence. there are millions and millions of people in AA who are rebuilding their lives across the world. Marijuana while it too can have a detrimental effect on people's lives at a rate close to alcohol.


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## HowSuneIsNow (Nov 8, 2009)

04mucklowd said:


> I've seen people at my school who were nice kids in lower years, smoke green and become awful people.
> 
> Cannabis really does ruin you life one way or another



They probably became awful people and smoking pot was a part of the **** they do. it wasn't the weed that made them change it was growing up that did. it's a symptom not the disease. if they are smoking a lot and having it interfere with their lives this is likely due to self destructive behaviour and not a powerful drug consuming their lives. if it was legal they wouldn't be getting it from drug dealers and not knowing the quality or if it had been laced with something worse and government regulation would actually make your friends safer.


self destructive addictive people will find a way to hurt themselves regardless of what the local governments decide should be illegal or not. I have a good friend in rehab for huffing. shoudl we make compressed air illegal? it's WAY worse for you than marijuana.


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## fanwuq (Nov 8, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> @Edmund: That's blatantly false. Millions of people around the world use marijuana, but it has yet to cause a recorded death. That's a HUGE sample size. If you legalized marijuana, even if ten times as many people smoked it, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that the number of deaths would go from 0 to 85,000.



I find that hard to believe. Maybe the drug itself wouldn't kill you from overdose, but it could significantly increase the chances of dying in other ways. It can impair you in ways that increases the chances of accidents. Marijuana smoke damages DNA and can lead to cancer, but on the other hand, other parts of marijuana can be used to fight against cancer growth.

I'm against using it, but I would say it's reasonable to legalize it. It would be more economically efficient and probably safer for the users. Why don't we just legalize everything? That might increase the chance of people dying in random accidents, but they happen regardless of drug use.


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## Muesli (Nov 8, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Marijuana smoke damages DNA and can lead to cancer



*Citation Needed*


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## Crossed (Nov 8, 2009)

04mucklowd said:


> I've seen people at my school who were nice kids in lower years, smoke green and become awful people.
> 
> Cannabis really does ruin you life one way or another



I've seen people with no reason to live, no happiness in their life, then they smoked green and found out what living is.

Cannabis really could save your life if you thought you couldn't live a normal life.


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## fanwuq (Nov 8, 2009)

Musli4brekkies said:


> fanwuq said:
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=marijuana+cancer
 Pwned.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2009/02/marijuana-use-a.html
Do not smoke if you want to keep your balls.


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## 04mucklowd (Nov 8, 2009)

Crossed said:


> 04mucklowd said:
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There are many different ways to turn your life around other than cannabis.


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## Crossed (Nov 8, 2009)

fanwuq said:


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"Marijuana Cuts Lung Cancer Tumor Growth In Half, Study Shows"

"Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection - washingtonpost.com"

"Marijuana Chemical May Fight Brain Cancer"

It's just as many links for each side of the cause.




04mucklowd said:


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That's my point? About anything could also ruin your life.


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## fanwuq (Nov 8, 2009)

Crossed said:


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Read my full post.


fanwuq said:


> Marijuana smoke damages DNA and can lead to cancer, but on the other hand, other parts of marijuana can be used to fight against cancer growth.


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## Crossed (Nov 8, 2009)

Ah sorry bout that, strange quoting from Musli there.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 8, 2009)

04mucklowd said:


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So what exactly is wrong with using marijuana? Please explain why that isn't a valid option for personal use.


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## Muesli (Nov 8, 2009)

fanwuq said:


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First two results;

"Marijuana Damages DNA And May Cause Cancer,"

"Marijuana Chemical May Fight Brain Cancer"

Hmmm... I think this is a grey area.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 8, 2009)




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## Connor (Nov 8, 2009)

04mucklowd said:


> I've seen people at my school who were nice kids in lower years, smoke green and become awful people.
> 
> Cannabis really does ruin you life one way or another



Some of the nicest people I know, and have ever met smoke weed, and a couple of them are going to college now, and are doing great.

They seem to be doing pretty good in life.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2009)

Connor said:


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Do they do it regularly?


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 8, 2009)

Edmund said:


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I know many regular (on average more than once a week) marijuana smokers who are going to schools like Cornell, NYU, Vassar, Princeton, Yale, Hamilton, and many others.


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## 4Chan (Nov 8, 2009)

Threads like these are fun to read.


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## stiwi griffin (Nov 8, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> Threads like these are fun to read.



pikachu is adiccted to it


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## 4Chan (Nov 8, 2009)

stiwi griffin said:


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AHAHAHAhAHAHAHAha


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## Lofty (Nov 8, 2009)

Eh, I'm not a fan of any drug including alcohol and tobacco. 
I've had very little experience with weed. I've seen people smoke it and be fine students, tho completely out of their minds at times, and my neighbor last year had to drop out of school because he was addicted to it. 
I wouldn't want to do anything that would be me in the metal state that I saw either of these people in.


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## Mr Cubism (Nov 8, 2009)

Why even think about Marijuana (or alcohol, cigarettes, any kind of drugs) when you have a lot of cubes all around you
The taste of a nice floating F2L must be ways better!


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## DavidWoner (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> blade740 said:
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People who stereotype are morons.



Bryan said:


> V-te said:
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> > Well yes, but the fact that it's an herb means that it does not contain any synthetic substance unless it's added to it, so It's already cleaner than any other drug.
> ...



Clean in the sense of having no contaminants? Yes. Arsenic is very clean. Do not confuse safe with clean.



Musli4brekkies said:


> The problem with Marijuana, is not that it is a "Gateway drug" as such. It is a "catalyst" drug. Legalising Marijuana will pave the way for slightly harder drugs to be legalised. Next time it will be LSD or a similar that will be being argued about. I would bet a large amount of money that more people die from Alcohol than from LSD so they could use the same argument.
> 
> tl;dr: It's the concept, rather than the actual substance.



I do not know of a single person who thinks LSD should be legalized, nor a single person who thinks it is not dangerous. People die all the time from hard drugs, they will have one hell of a hard time legalizing a proven killer.



04mucklowd said:


> I've seen people at my school who were nice kids in lower years, smoke green and become awful people.
> 
> Cannabis really does ruin you life one way or another



Correlation does not imply causation. 
Why does nobody remember that? What do they teach kids these days anyway?



fanwuq said:


> Musli4brekkies said:
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That article says:
"these results provide evidence for the DNA damaging potential of cannabis [marijuana] smoke, implying that the consumption of cannabis cigarettes may be detrimental to human health with the possibility to initiate cancer development"

It never says they have proven or they have found. Since they are trying to find damaging substances in marijuana, of course they are going to report their findings in a way that makes them look succesful.



Ethan Rosen said:


> Edmund said:
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To be honest some of the most brilliant people I knew at Penn smoked all the time. I found it to be more common in college, most likely because it is so effective at relieving stress.


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## Meisen (Nov 8, 2009)

Marijuana is not deadly. You simply cannot OD on cannabis.

Not only is it not deadly, but it's far less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. Still, here in Norway alcohol and tobacco is perfectly legal, but if the cops catch you with more than five grams of hashish or marijuana, they arrest you and charge you as a drugdealer, the same as if you had 5 grams of heroin on you!

Now that is just wrong!

How many people do you guys know that do violent things and/or get aggressive when they drink alcohol?
Granted i don't know a lot of people that smoke ganja, but those i do know i've never seen aggressive or threatening when high.

As for the argument of pot beeing a gateway drug.... I don't know. It sure doesn't help forcing people into an criminal enviromet to get their goods!
If it was legalized, and you could buy it in your local supermarket, that would not be a problem.

Another thing is all the taxes the government would earn from weeds if it was legalized and sold over the counter. I can't for the life of me understand why it is still viewed upon as a dangerous drug, just like heroin is.

I have strong opinions, and more arguments on this subject, but i think i'll stop here 

Oh btw, contrary to your suspicions after reading this post; i do not smoke weed, but i do want to be able to choose to do so, without beeing a criminal according to norwegian law! 


For Norwegians on this forum: http://normal.no/


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## waffle=ijm (Nov 8, 2009)

SWIM does Marijuana for recreation reasons, but doesn't regularly do it. SWIM enjoys the taste but agrees that there are gray areas about health reasons.


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

waffle=ijm said:


> SWIM does Marijuana for recreation reasons, but doesn't regularly do it. SWIM enjoys the taste but agrees that there are gray areas about health reasons.



lol we were talking about that on skype.


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## waffle=ijm (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


> waffle=ijm said:
> 
> 
> > SWIM does Marijuana for recreation reasons, but doesn't regularly do it. SWIM enjoys the taste but agrees that there are gray areas about health reasons.
> ...


SWIM knows this is true.


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## (X) (Nov 8, 2009)

Meisen said:


> Marijuana is not deadly. You simply cannot OD on cannabis.
> 
> Not only is it not deadly, but it's far less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. Still, here in Norway alcohol and tobacco is perfectly legal, but if the cops catch you with more than five grams of hashish or marijuana, they arrest you and charge you as a drugdealer, the same as if you had 5 grams of heroin on you!
> 
> ...



Am I the only one who translates this, and similar arguments, into "ban alcohol"?


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## Meisen (Nov 8, 2009)

Hehe, we can discuss this further in february


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## goatseforever (Nov 8, 2009)

Too lazy to read this thread, it will probably make me facepalm anyway. But weed is harmless if you're not retarded.


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## waffle=ijm (Nov 8, 2009)

SWIM agrees with above poster.


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## masterofthebass (Nov 8, 2009)

(X) said:


> Am I the only one who translates this, and similar arguments, into "ban alcohol"?



They already tried that in the US. Led to the worst organized crime in history.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

DavidWoner said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > blade740 said:
> ...


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> DavidWoner said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...



Can you back it up with anything? I mean you're allowed to have an opinion, but I'd like to hear some sort of reasoning to explain why you are so misguided.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > DavidWoner said:
> ...



Every pothead I've met acts like a total moron. There proof enough?


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## CL_Pepsi (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...



Well you haven't met enough people.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...



Then you obviously have a very small sample size. I have friends that frequently use marijuana but are applying to/going to colleges most of us could only dream of going to.


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## dunpeal2064 (Nov 8, 2009)

Michael Phelps *cough cough* >.>

But yes, I believe Weed is perfectly fine recreationally. And saying that all stoners are morons is quite a moronic thing to say... i mean, a lot of people smoke weed and no one knows they do... and maybe these morons you met were already morons before they started weed

But i have yet to find ANY solid proof that weed is bad for you. "It kills Braincells!" Yeah, the test they used to conclude that involved them putting a gas mask on these poor monkeys and pumping weed into it, suffocating them. Braincells die due to suffocation. =/

We are all allowed our opinions, and i can see someone who has never tried it being wary of it... but calling all stoners morons just makes no sense. 

Side Note: I only learned how to solve a rubik's cube because i was stoned and saw it sitting there and decided "i'm fixing that thing no matter what it takes" only took 4 hours =) and now I'm down to 40 sec`


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## Dave Campbell (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Every pothead I've met acts like a total moron.



The rub there, of course, is that perhaps you have met several potheads in your life but had no idea they were so because they were not conforming to the same standard. The mature ones don't go around with signs on their shirt letting everyone know. 

In fact, i will tell you that i know you have met potheads in your life that were not "total morons" and have lead very successful lives and made a positive difference in other people's lives. Who knows, maybe even some of the cubers you look up to smoke pot?

I'd personally like to hear some people's opinion on the effect of pot on cubing. Though getting some to admit publicly that they smoke pot in order to comment is the bigger obstacle there. 

I will also say, for the record, some of the smartest people i have known smoke pot. It doesn't mean you need to do so to be smart, they would be smart without it. In my opinion, it is a personal choice. It doesn't have to define the person. Of course it can be used as a crutch and have a negative effect on someone's life. But so can many things, alcohol, sex, videogames, religion, cubing, and so on.


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## dunpeal2064 (Nov 8, 2009)

as for pot on cubing... everything moves slower... Look Ahead anyone? lol. 

I will say that memorizing algs can be tough for obvious reasons, but seeing patterns is easier. Also, just being able to relax, not stressing out over a previous mess up ( because you dont remember ) treating every solve the same... stuff like that.

also, for bigger cubes, my edge pairing goes twice as fast, because i can pinpoint identical pieces faster for some reason. 

Since the subject of Pot is up, any stoners in here should listen to Tool next time they get stoned. =) 

I'm hoping all the stoners flock to Berkley next weekend and meet up behind campus =) haha jk


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

CL_Pepsi said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > Ethan Rosen said:
> ...



and You murder people.

I'll make assumption on someone's life I have NO idea about as well 

Potheads are morons, geez stop hurting my opinion lulz


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## Anthony (Nov 8, 2009)

Dave Campbell said:


> Who knows, maybe even some of the cubers you look up to smoke pot?



I can actually think of quite a few cubers who would fit that description, cubers that I've looked up to since I first saw cubing videos on YouTube. They're still really cool and aren't bad people at all. I'm not saying that I support smoking pot, I just know that it doesn't necessarily define the person.


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## goatseforever (Nov 8, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Then you obviously have a very small sample size. I have friends that frequently use marijuana but are applying to/going to colleges most of us could only dream of going to.



QFT. I have high school friends in UCLA and Berkeley now who smoked weed for the first time when they were 16.

Ironically, I also know a person who has never tried weed; he is failing out of community college at the moment and will probably spent his life working as a cashier (I'm not exaggerating this).

InB4 someone interprets my post as smoke more weed = go to a better college.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

goatseforever said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Then you obviously have a very small sample size. I have friends that frequently use marijuana but are applying to/going to colleges most of us could only dream of going to.
> ...



There are people in life who are absolute total jerks, maybe even murderer's who have gotten away with it. Celebrities with no morals or maybe are horrible people and they are great successful people.

So everyone's point..... Doesn't matter WHAT you do in life... WHO you are, or what kind of person you are... it's okay as long as your successful your fine? 

That pathetic.

Also college does NOTHING, it means NOTHING.

You wanna talk about success. There are TONS of rich successful people out there, who 99% of people on these forums will NEVER amount to even CLOSE of the success of them, and they probably never went to college or even finished high school (plenty of rich celeb's etc for example)


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## shelley (Nov 8, 2009)

So meeting a smart, successful person who smokes pot every once in a while wouldn't change your opinion that all potheads are morons?


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## 4Chan (Nov 8, 2009)

Because finding small exceptions disproves the general majority as a whole. 

That was a neutral statement, I don't want to take sides. D:


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## shelley (Nov 8, 2009)

I find it hard to believe Derrick has met the general majority of pot smokers.


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## LSDJ (Nov 8, 2009)

I SMOKE!!!! there i said it! I don't "Know a guy" or "Have this firend..." and I smoked long before i cubed. I started many years ago now and smoke "recreationally". I started cubing about 6 months ago and i usually practice with a bong or two. After 6 months I now record sub-20 time. I find no real difference either way. 
As for Ethical reasons... to each his/her own, I know many who both smoke and grow legally and Ilegally for every reason under the sun. So to group them as a single entity is just plain Ignorant, but kids shouldn't smoke pot anyway. 
*To the original poster*
I suspect you ask because you are interested or the opportunity arose. No one can tell you yes or no, that is ultimately up to you, but i applaud your need to research before making that decision. Learn as much as you can.
I am not suggesting to anyone that It is ok to smoke pot, it is still illegal, nor should I deter you from making decisions on your own. Just be SMART!!!! 
-H'Legend


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## TioMario (Nov 8, 2009)

Hey, if you want to enjoy weed, you need a nice group of people, with no pressure. You should try it if you want to; and if you like it, well, do it.
*BUT*: MODERATION, of course. 
I smoke one every week maybe, sometimes not even that, and what I enjoy is not the weed itself, that's just an excuse to get together with my friends. I don't tend to smoke alone, is boring.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 8, 2009)

shelley said:


> I find it hard to believe Derrick has met the general majority of pot smokers.



Why would I go around the world meeting pot smokers when I hate them?

Do a barrel Roll (LOL IM INTERNET KEWL NOW!!!!111111ONE111)


Edit: Did I say ALL potheads are morons? sure they may not be absolute morons, but they are still stupid for doing pot in my mind  oh yeah my opinion again.

and yet again being smart and successful isn't EVERYTHING in life.


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## 4Chan (Nov 8, 2009)




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## V-te (Nov 8, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


>



Ahh the sweet smell of subliminal advertising.. =)


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## qqwref (Nov 8, 2009)

joey said:


> How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal


Careful. Gay marriage, copyright infringement, and verbal sexual harassment are all illegal in the US. I doubt anyone has ever been directly killed by any of these.



Musli4brekkies said:


> Legalising Marijuana will pave the way for slightly harder drugs to be legalised. Next time it will be LSD or a similar that will be being argued about.


Not really. I know of other countries in which pot is legal, and they didn't even consider making stuff like LSD or cocaine legal. Marijuana is just so safe that the only real reason to illegalize it that I can see is because you don't like the concept of drugs at all (but then smoking and alcohol should be illegal too, right?).

Interesting quote: "In driving simulator tests, subjects under the influence of pot typically manifest their impairment by decreasing their driving speed and requiring greater time to respond to emergency situations. However, unlike subjects under the influence of alcohol, these drivers are usually aware of their impairment and compensate for it accordingly, such as by driving more cautiously or by focusing their attention when they know a response will be required." I'd much rather have to deal with drivers who are high on pot than drivers who are drunk.

Derrick: Wait, have you only met pot smokers in Canada? That's like a double whammy. No wonder you're biased. kidding!


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## Andreaillest (Nov 8, 2009)

Aah, Mary Jane. Complicated thing she is.
Well, I can go on and spew facts about cannabis, but I'm not. Too much to think about. While I do believe cannabis is less harmless than most drugs, there are still bad effects it has. However, it can and is being used for good. Some people with cancer use it and I haven't heard a negative response from that. In fact, I get more upset to see someone smoking a ciggarette than a joint. I personally won't care that much if they legalize it because I don't use it. But if they do legalize, it will definitly end up taxed like every other drug. Some say this will help the economy, but who really knows.

And yes, there are smart users out there. Iv'e seen some and they weren't jerks or idiots. Some of them are highly intelligent human beings. It's possible to keep your intelligence level if you use it, just like it's possible to be an idiot who uses it. Marijuana is not a cause of douchiness or complete idiocy.

Really, I find that people who actually smoke it have the most knowledge on it because of experience.


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## DavidWoner (Nov 8, 2009)

qqwref said:


> I'd much rather have to deal with drivers who are high on pot than drivers who are drunk.



Or texting, or talking on a phone, or sleepy...

Inattentiveness behind the wheel is the real danger, no matter the cause. If you know you won't be able to react as fast it is easy to compensate by driving more carefully and paying more attention. It's like my driver's ed teacher said "People ask me 'How can you ride around with kids all day? They don't know anything about driving, aren't you terrified?' I tell them that these kids are 100% focused on driving, that is the only reason they are there. They aren't focused on what to have for dinner or that presentation tomorrow, I am probably safer with them than I am with you."


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## Jude (Nov 8, 2009)

joey said:


> How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal
> And how many deaths are there per year from alcohol
> 
> Err, well actually according to research
> ...



lol this needs more love. That's the only good song The Streets ever did


Also, I really don't want to get involved in this argument, and I won't give my opinions either way, but wow Derrick, you are being so incredibly narrow-minded. I can't believe you would actually make a claim as ridiculous as "All potheads are morons". I'm genuinely incredulous that someone who appears to be intelligent would make a comment like that. It's just so idiotic and offensive in so many ways.


EDIT: For those who don't know, Joey was quoting lyrics from this song.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 8, 2009)

Derrick, I hope you realize how many members of this forum and community you are insulting and labeling, all based on ONE harmless activity. 
You know what? All people who make stupid videos of people trapped in walls or some crap like that are stupid. My sample size: You.


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## mr.onehanded (Nov 8, 2009)

V-te said:


> Marijuana is not a drug, it's an herb.



Are you seriously that ignorant. If you don't have anything useful to contribute, don't post.


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## Muesli (Nov 8, 2009)

mr.onehanded said:


> V-te said:
> 
> 
> > Marijuana is not a drug, it's an herb.
> ...



The same to you. That was a pointless flame and you know it. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it.

What is a drug? A substance that affects the body and/or mind. In that case, everything we interact with is a "drug". Nutmeg, for instance, will kill if injected. Does that make it a drug? It surely affects the body in such a dramatic way that it kills.

The definition of "drug" is very hazy. Technically marijuana is a herb, seeing as everything else is a drug.


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## Weston (Nov 8, 2009)

I think that many of the people here are taking what Derrick said incorrectly. 
(not that I agree with him)
I think that most people are thinking that when he says "all potheads are morons," they think that he is saying that the people who are stupid, smoke pot because they are stupid.

What i'm pretty sure he is saying is that, because people do pot, they are morons in his mind, because pot, to him, is a moronic thing to do.

Once again, I don't agree with him, but I'm just clarifying.


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## CL_Pepsi (Nov 8, 2009)

Weston said:


> I think that many of the people here are taking what Derrick said incorrectly.
> (not that I agree with him)
> I think that most people are thinking that when he says "all potheads are morons," they think that he is saying that the people who are stupid, smoke pot because they are stupid.
> 
> ...



You explain things very well. I get what he says now.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

DavidWoner said:


> I do not know of a single person who thinks LSD should be legalized, nor a single person who thinks it is not dangerous. People die all the time from hard drugs, they will have one hell of a hard time legalizing a proven killer.



I think you need to do a bit of research. LSD is quite safe (physically; it could be very psychologically damaging) 



> No well-documented human deaths resulting directly from the toxic effects of LSD itself have occurred, though LSD has been implicated in accidental deaths, suicides, and homicides



As to being a successful marijuana user, check this out: http://coedmagazine.com/2009/02/06/...theads-on-the-planet-cool-enough-to-admit-it/


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## Weston (Nov 9, 2009)

blade740 said:


> DavidWoner said:
> 
> 
> > I do not know of a single person who thinks LSD should be legalized, nor a single person who thinks it is not dangerous. People die all the time from hard drugs, they will have one hell of a hard time legalizing a proven killer.
> ...


----------



## Weston (Nov 9, 2009)

blade740 said:


> DavidWoner said:
> 
> 
> > I do not know of a single person who thinks LSD should be legalized, nor a single person who thinks it is not dangerous. People die all the time from hard drugs, they will have one hell of a hard time legalizing a proven killer.
> ...




The real danger of LSD comes from not the drug itself, but what it makes you do. Like some people high on LSD think that they can fly and they jump off building.

Another example is that a while ago, a woman ate her daughters lungs while on acid.[/QUOTE]


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## Dene (Nov 9, 2009)

DRUGS R BAD.


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## Escher (Nov 9, 2009)

When I see a bunch of students drunk out of their minds, I am much more concerned for them and what they will do than when I see a few stoned teenagers.


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## DavidWoner (Nov 9, 2009)

Weston said:


> blade740 said:
> 
> 
> > DavidWoner said:
> ...



Yes that is more what I was referring to, I guess I didn't really phrase it correctly.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

Obviously you need to take precautions when using psychedelic drugs. Have a sober friend around to keep you from doing anything dumb. 

Of course stupid people do stupid things while under the influence of drugs. But stupid people will do stupid things regardless, and using a drug IRRESPONSIBLY is stupid. 

I'm not claiming that everyone should use drugs, by any means. Some people don't like it, and some can't handle it. But there's no reason to demonize an activity just because it can be dangerous in the wrong hands. If we did that, we might as well ban a lot of things that could be dangerous to dumb people:
anything pointy, heavy, hot, electric, etc. (I'd note that nearly any object you find in your house is more likely to cause death than marijuana)


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Derrick, I hope you realize how many members of this forum and community you are insulting and labeling, all based on ONE harmless activity.
> You know what? All people who make stupid videos of people trapped in walls or some crap like that are stupid. My sample size: You.



@Jude: I never said all Pothead are morons, I even told Shelley that, look again pl0x.

99% are though, drugs are stupid in my opinion, and again thats my opinion? wtf I can't have one? 

@Ethan: I can't help if they are potheads, oh well that's their decision, in my opinion they are stupid for doing so, i can't help it, it's my morals, my opinions my thoughts, do I ask YOU to change your beliefs?!? nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Also your just using that last part to single me out, to be immature, also on purpose as kind of an "insult" which is pretty sad, i just mentioned my opinions, drugs (alcohol, pot etc) are stupid and turn people into Absolute retards.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

You've been insulting many people throughout the thread, so I really don't see anything wrong with stating my opinion on people who make 30 part videos about people trapped in a wall.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> 99% are though, drugs are stupid in my opinion, and again thats my opinion? wtf I can't have one?
> 
> ...
> 
> drugs (alcohol, pot etc) are stupid and turn people into Absolute retards.



Nobody said you can't have an opinion, but if you post an opinion based on false assumptions you can expect that someone will refute those assumptions. 

I have no doubt that you think drugs are stupid. That's your opinion and nobody can take it away from you. But the second part of that is your false assumption that they turn people into absolute retards, which I KNOW is false. It's not an opinion, it's a FACT. There are PLENTY of examples of people who smoke marijuana regularly and are NOT absolute retards.


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Nov 9, 2009)

.... I like the person trapped in his wall


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

ThePizzaGuy92 said:


> .... I like the person trapped in his wall



Could someone refer me this video. I have no idea what you guys are talking about.


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## Andreaillest (Nov 9, 2009)

I will say this. I have tried alcohol about once or twice(A drug I consider more harmful than marijuauna) and I'll most likely do more of it. Yet, I am no way an retard or have become a retard. I still am perfectly fine.


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## Jude (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> 99% [of potheads] are [morons] though, drugs are stupid in my opinion, and again thats my opinion? wtf I can't have one?



Uh, it's not an opinion, you're portraying something as fact, which is literally incorrect. The definition of a Moron is "someone who is lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.". It is _FACTUALLY INCORRECT_ to say that 99% of people who smoke weed 'lack ordinary quickness and keenness of mind'. It's just not true that they are all stupid. You are arguing something that is by definition incorrect, and can be proved to be so. 



blade740 said:


> Nobody said you can't have an opinion, but if you post an opinion based on false assumptions you can expect that someone will refute those assumptions.



This.


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## daniel0731ex (Nov 9, 2009)

marijuana is TOXIC!! it causes your brain to rot and makes you stupid



btw yeah i do marijuanas


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## *LukeMayn* (Nov 9, 2009)

Dene said:


> DRUGS R BAD.



Quoted for immortality 

But I would like to see what would happen if it was legalized. I honestly think that it wont effect the world. 

I just sincerely hope that it wont lead to people doing the next worse illegal drug instead of weed.


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 9, 2009)

Do you think marijuana is a motivation killer?
Like, when you do it a few times you kinda loose motivation for study/exercise and can't be bothered doing much?
School is pretty important to me so I wouldn't want to throw it away just for a bit of stress-release.

Also, is it a lot more dangerous when you are young? I am only 16, so, I assume by brain isn't fully developed.. 

And thanks for all your facts/opinions, they are wonderful


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## anythingtwisty (Nov 9, 2009)

Weston said:


> blade740 said:
> 
> 
> > DavidWoner said:
> ...


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## vgbjason (Nov 9, 2009)

I just want you guys to think about how much less crime there would be if pot was legal.

For one, a lot of drugs are manufactured in the middle east, by the Taliban. (not necessarily marijuana, though.) By legalizing marijuana, we would be throwing less money into the hands of extremists.

I know that's kind of a roundabout point. many of the points against marijuana use are extremely roundabout as well.


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## anythingtwisty (Nov 9, 2009)

LONG POST WARNING

I find this thread especially interesting because I have been doing a lot of research on drug use lately. I have several friends who smoke marijuana, and their healthy appearances and states of mind contrast what I have always been told by authority figures about this plant. Reading major news articles and taking a visit to California, where personal marijuana possession is legal (by state law, not federal law), have also changed my perspective.
Cannabis(also known as marijuana) is a plant that has a chemical that produces psychoactive effects. This chemical is called THC. The plant has been consumed in various ways for thousands of years. It was legal for personal possession in much of the world until the twentieth century. Cannabis has does have undesirable side effects, most of which come from the method of intake. Smoking it, for example, releases carcinogens into the lungs. However, many people wrongly compare smoking marijuana with smoking cigarettes. Cigarettes containe nicotine, a physically addictive substance, and marijuana is not physically addictive. Studies have also shown that cigarette smokers smoke on a much more regular basis than those who smoke marijuana, leading to a higher rate of cancer. Not one death related to cancer from marijuana use has ever been reported. 
Why is marijuana illegal in the United States?, you may ask. The reasons for the current legal status of cannabis is early misinformation supplied to and from the US government. Posters like the one below were spread and believed, while they have no factual basis in reality:





Marijuana is not the only drug that I believe should be legalized, however. I will edit this post later, as I have a lot more to say.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

vgbjason said:


> I just want you guys to think about how much less crime there would be if pot was legal.
> 
> For one, a lot of drugs are manufactured in the middle east, by the Taliban. (not necessarily marijuana, though.) By legalizing marijuana, we would be throwing less money into the hands of extremists.
> 
> I know that's kind of a roundabout point. many of the points against marijuana use are extremely roundabout as well.



Well, I think the better reason is that the majority of marijuana users will have no reason to know a "drug dealer" (who will most likely, at some point up the supply chain, have some sort of gang/organized crime affiliation). Not only will this take money out of the hands of violent criminals, it will mean that less people will have access to (and possibly pressure to buy/use) harder, more dangerous drugs.


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## i luv pants (Nov 9, 2009)

I think all drugs are terrible: they ruin your body and you just don't need them. I have a friend (we're adults) who used to smoke weed then got out of it. Now he chews a lot of gum instead. There's always alternatives and someone has to be dumb or has a terrible life to take it, and I applaud those who are smart enough to get the help they need to stop there dependency on marijuana or any drug for that matter.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

Jude said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > 99% [of potheads] are [morons] though, drugs are stupid in my opinion, and again thats my opinion? wtf I can't have one?
> ...



Sorry jude it IS an opinion. I THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO SMOKE POT ACT LIKE MORONS AND ITS PATHETIC.

thats my opinion, you dont have to take it as fact at all by any means, but to me its how I see it.

@Ethan: Show me ONE TIME please I insulted someone in this thread. I would LOVE to see it. You know like ACTUALLY insulting someone please i need to be shown this.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> @Ethan: Show me ONE TIME please I insulted someone in this thread. I would LOVE to see it. You know like ACTUALLY insulting someone please i need to be shown this.







Derrick Eide17 said:


> Pothead are morons.





Derrick Eide17 said:


> So the last thing I will add to this yet again is, Potheads are morons





Derrick Eide17 said:


> Potheads actually ARE morons though seriously  you see the way they act? I rest my case





Derrick Eide17 said:


> Every pothead I've met acts like a total moron. There proof enough?





Derrick Eide17 said:


> @Jude: I never said all Pothead are morons, I even told Shelley that, look again pl0x.
> 
> 99% are though





Derrick Eide17 said:


> I THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO SMOKE POT ACT LIKE MORONS AND ITS PATHETIC.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > @Ethan: Show me ONE TIME please I insulted someone in this thread. I would LOVE to see it. You know like ACTUALLY insulting someone please i need to be shown this.
> ...



Nope sorry, I did not insult ANYONE.
I just stuck with my first opinion throughout the WHOLE thread.
POTHEADS ARE MORONS, that's my opinion, and I back it up through my own experiences. If you still again say that it's wrong to say that, well then I'm gonna start having to ask you to change your beliefs and opinions too pl0x. Did I actually come out and insult someone directly on here?

No I don't think so.

Pwndkthxbai


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

Canadians are morons
I'm not mentioning any names, so it's ok right?

Also, I hate black people
No names mentioned there, that means it's perfectly ok right?


----------



## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Canadians are morons
> I'm not mentioning any names, so it's ok right?
> 
> Also, I hate black people
> No names mentioned there, that means it's perfectly ok right?



Sure I don't care. I was just proving you wrong that I didn't insult anyone on here directly or in anyway.
Blade himself already said Canadians are morons earlier in this thread as well, and did you see me flipping out? Nope   

Sorry Ethan I'm not a hypocrite.


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Canadians are morons
> ...



No, you're just an idiot. I never said you had to care if I said Canadians were stupid, all I'm saying is that since you are a Canadian, I'm insulting you. I didn't have to mention you're name, just like you didn't need to mention anyone's name to say all "potheads" are morons. 
This reminds me of the time you said that all parents are morons, and then when Bryan was like, btw I'm a parent, you were like, no no I don't mean you. The simple fact is that you are wrong here.


----------



## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Canadians are morons
> ...


You're an idiot Derrick.
Holy ****! That's an opinion AND an insult! They're NOT mutually exclusive! YEEEEEEEEEEEES HAHA WTF LOL!!!  OMG LOL!!! OMG WOW  YES HAHA LOL XD WOW!!! HAHA OMG  HAHA!!! LOL MATYAS LOL XD OMG WTF (Courtesy of qqtimer. Good scramble, btw.)

EDIT:


ethan rosen said:


> This reminds me of the time you said that all parents are morons, and then when Bryan was like, btw I'm a parent, you were like, no no I don't mean you. The simple fact is that you are wrong here.


There's a name for that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > Ethan Rosen said:
> ...



1. Now look who comes right out and calls me an idiot? Hypocrite, you are one    

2. Also no your not insulting me really, sure it doesn't feel great, but if you ACTUALLY THOUGHT all canadians are morons, i could understand because from experience you actually believe that, but no your just being an immature little faggot 

3. Yet again did I say all parents? Most parents Buddeh 

4. Go smoke pot and relax pothead


@Hawkmp4: Wow your even more immature than Ethan. Your not even involved at all and you come right out and call me an idiot? Of course you and Ethan should be both banned for randomly coming out and calling another member an idiot but w/e thats cool, Hypocrites hypocrites hypocrites    

also LOLwikipedia links  your funny

Major lol at being insulted for expressing my opinion too, speedsolving.com gotta love it


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## qqwref (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> no your just being an immature little faggot



Mirror, meet Derrick. Derrick, mirror.


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...


Oh but Derrick, that was my opinion! I thought people were allowed to have opinions?
I'd watch your language too. Idiot is one thing, faggot is another.
If any mod wants to follow your ridiculous advice and ban me, I invite them to. Please, ban me. Ban me for this tiny offence, which offended one person, whereas your two sweeping comments offend a very large amount of people who you really don't know.

And in regards to your argument with Ethan- he'll freely admit he's insulting you. That's not an issue with him, I'm sure. You, however, ARE denying that you're insulting people and that's the issue we're having here.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > no your just being an immature little faggot
> ...



Do i sit here and let someone call me an idiot?

I never insulted him at ALL until Ethan came right out and clearly called me an idiot. Sorry I'm not spineless.


@Hawkmp4: Okay hawk why do you think I'm a moron? any reasons? just because I don't like pot?
nice reason.

Idiot faggot? big difference? Oh alright then sorry your an idiot. There better? 
Also if I'm directly insulting so many people on here, please name names....


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## daniel0731ex (Nov 9, 2009)

woah, woah. i think derrick is pissed.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...



1. Yes, you are an idiot. That isn't hypocrisy at all, I've made it very clear since the beginning of our argument that I think you're an idiot. I also never called you a hypocrite. I also thought I made it pretty clear that I was trying to insult you, and I never said that you couldn't insult anyone, so I'm not sure where the hypocrite label comes in here. Perhaps you are unclear on the definition of that word? Please look it up. 

2. You don't seem to get the point I was trying to make. I don't think all Canadians are idiots, I was just saying that you can't just insult a group and claim you don't mean the individuals in that group. 

3. The title of the thread was "Parent are morons." It wasn't "some parents are morons."

4. While I don't appreciate that word, I do have school off Wednesday, and it is quite possible that I will.


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## qqwref (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> I never insulted him at ALL until Ethan came right out and clearly called me an idiot. Sorry I'm not spineless.



Do you actually understand the concept of generalizations? If you say "all potheads are idiots" then you are quite literally saying "everyone who uses pot is an idiot". That is a direct insult to everyone who uses marijuana (which is probably more than you think - some 40% of Americans have used it). It is not an opinion any more than saying blacks are stupid would be, and you don't really have the right to say it and not expect punishment either.

I'm incredulous at how much of an idiot you are showing yourself to be in this topic. Even people who weren't even part of the argument can clearly see that you are the one in the wrong. If I were you I'd stop now before I lost any more respect.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > Ethan Rosen said:
> ...



1. Yes, you are an idiot as well ethan, immature as well, and a pothead.

2. I didn't mean it as in insult. I can see how moron can be tooken badly, but when high do people not act totally different? it's neither funny nor clever, just STUPID. 

3. Parent are morons = Parents in general. I guarantee you make statements that mean a lot more than what you actually said.

4. It's nice to know your such a weak person that you need drugs in life to keep yourself going, haha 


@Qqwerf: idiot from you too now? why would I want respect from such immature people. There are some decent, good people on here who actually know how to act civilized. Then on the other hand there is people who are on this thread. I can't express my opinion? GREAT


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

1. cool story bro
2. No, a lot people do not act totally different while high. Please educate yourself. Also, since when is moron not an insult?
3. I really don't know how to respond to this...
4. I really really like roller coasters. I must be such a weak person because I enjoy them. I also rather enjoy cubing. Man, I am just soooo weak.


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...



As (the other) Michael just said, YOU'RE not naming names but by making such generalisations YOU'RE insulting everyone who fits those generalisations. Which is a fair amount of people. 
Idiot? Faggot? Big difference, yeah. I'm a 'faggot', though I despise that term through and through. I'm not an idiot (Look, I can use contractions, too! See, you are -> YOU'RE. Not your!)
I think YOU'RE an idiot for several reasons- one, you can't use you're/your correctly. That's minor compared to the others. Second, you make derogatory, sweeping generalisations about people you don't know and then deny that you're insulting anyone. Third, you use the word faggot. Self explanatory, given my posts in the other thread that's gotten heated today. Fourth, and finally, I think YOU'RE an idiot because it's clear from your arguments that you have not had very much experience at all with people who smoke weed, yet you don't realise this and still think you're capable of insulting "99%" of the people that smoke weed.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> 1. cool story bro
> 2. No, a lot people do not act totally different while high. Please educate yourself. Also, since when is moron not an insult?
> 3. I really don't know how to respond to this...
> 4. I really really like roller coasters. I must be such a weak person because I enjoy them. I also rather enjoy cubing. Man, I am just soooo weak.



1. Cool story bro (great response ill use it too)

2. Most do, and do people going around like "WOAH MAN IM SO STONED HAHAHA SWEET LOLOLFOELFMEOFJEOMFEOJE" not seem moronic?

3. There are good parents in the world, MOST parents have no idea how to raise their kids. good enough? nope your gonna respond.

4. Using marijuana for a stress reliever? to get high, forget bout life for a bit? nice...

Only thing i may ever agree with you is sure stuff like roller coasters, fun things in life may have the same effect in making you happy or content.


@Hawkmp4: Ill use an ethan/hawk response, Shut up your an idiot  (lol omg no 're)
omg im so sorry im really being rude now arent i?  but wait... i got called in idiot 3 times already... hmmmm

Also love how fair this is, being teamed up on  nice guys


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

2. You obviously have very very little experience with marijuana or people who use it.

3. Can you provide anything backing this up, or are you just going to make sweeping generalizations based on your opinion which isn't based on anything again?

4. What is wrong with doing something that I enjoy that doesn't in any way harm anyone?


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > 1. cool story bro
> ...


Just a word to the wise, it's hard to get people to take you seriously when you don't have a firm grasp of your first language


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

It IS an insult. Most insults are opinions: if they were facts they wouldn't be very effective. 

I didn't mean that all canadians are idiots, I was trying to make a point (which you COMPLETELY MISSED, BY THE WAY) You, Derrick, are an idiot. I repeat: YOU'RE AN IDIOT. I said it. That is my opinion based on your inability to:
a) make a valid argument
b) understand what anyone is saying in this thread

Now, I'm going to tell you one more time, as clearly as possible, so please read and try to understand what I'm saying instead of just shrugging it off.

Here are the facts you know: all the potheads that you know of act in a way you think of as "retarded."

Now, from that, I can see how you could jump straight from there to "all potheads are retards" but that's a big logical jump to make due to the following reasons:
1) You don't know very many "potheads" Not nearly enough to be a reliable sample of the pothead population.
2) You don't know how many of the people you know use marijuana without your knowledge. The only ones you know of are the ones who act "retarded"

Now, here are some more facts that I would like to inform you of:
3) I personally know several "potheads" that are much smarter than the average human being. 
4) I know of MANY more marijuana users who are much smarterssumption than the average human being.
5) Having experienced the effects of marijuana, I can confidently say that while it does have some effects that you might interpret as "retardation" (for example, slowed reaction time, shorter attention span) I find that it does not stop me from thinking clearly and making rational decisions. 
6) You already know many people that use marijuana without your knowledge and do not consider them "retards" 

Now, because of #3 and #4, I believe it's safe to assume that the group of stoners you know is NOT representative of marijuana users on average, and so your statement that all potheads are retards is FALSE.


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Also love how fair this is, being teamed up on  nice guys



In our defense, it's hard to argue with people who don't listen and people who are close-minded.


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## qqwref (Nov 9, 2009)

dERRIK Eied71 said:


> @Qqwerf: idiot from you too now? why would I want respect from such immature people. There are some decent, good people on here who actually know how to act civilized. Then on the other hand there is people who are on this thread. I can't express my opinion? GREAT


You don't understand - I'm saying that even people who are not part of this thread are looking at what you're posting, and realizing that you are showing yourself off as an idiot. I don't care if you want respect or not from the people who are posting in this topic, but I think that if I showed your posts here to a lot of other cubers who are clearly "civilized" they would immediately think of you much less highly than they did before.

As far as free speech is concerned, saying "<entire class of people> are idiots" is not an opinion as much as hate speech. And yeah, there are laws and forum rules against stuff like that. Point is, if that's your opinion, then no you can't express it. Go find another opinion.


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> 2. Most do, and do people going around like "WOAH MAN IM SO STONED HAHAHA SWEET LOLOLFOELFMEOFJEOMFEOJE" not seem moronic?



Is this coming from real witness, or the common stereotype?
I'm not trying to join this argument/discussion, Id just like to know.


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Edward said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > 2. Most do, and do people going around like "WOAH MAN IM SO STONED HAHAHA SWEET LOLOLFOELFMEOFJEOMFEOJE" not seem moronic?
> ...



Given the rest of Derrick's statements, it's pretty clear it's from the stereotype.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> 2. You obviously have very very little experience with marijuana or people who use it.
> 
> 3. Can you provide anything backing this up, or are you just going to make sweeping generalizations based on your opinion which isn't based on anything again?
> 
> 4. What is wrong with doing something that I enjoy that doesn't in any way harm anyone?



2. Yeah I don't do drugs it's incredibly stupid, almost everyone at my school smoked pot.

3. Look how much family problems there are in the world now, plus I've had tons of experiences myself with parents who simply don't know how to raise their kids. They can't find a compromise between too hard/disciplining, or too easy on their child. Also you don't need me to tell you of all the **** you hear going on the world with some parents abusing their children etc, or not knowing what to do when getting pregnant (abortions)

4. Marijuana does harm people, do you really need me to explain how?
It may not be as bad but,

Impaired driving, for a LOT of people (yes I know not all) it turns them into a completely different person, getting addicted to other drugs, and I guarantee if it was legalized there would still be huge crimes involving weed and drug dealing etc, guess we'll have to wait to find out.

@Edmund: From every single person I've ever met/seen at school/around where I live that does smoke pot, yes it is pretty much is true.

@Blade: Your an idiot as well. Is this getting anywhere? 

@QQFFEFEFERERERE: Why do I want respect from such immature/despicable people again?


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Are you REALLY attempting to make the gateway drug argument?
Reason number 5 that Derrick is an idiot.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

2. So bassically you don't know what you're talking about.

3. Once again, you are taking a TINY sample size and assuming that holds true everywhere. I would use an analogy about how you only hear about the soldiers who die in wars, but based on your past posts in this thread I highly doubt you would understand it.

4. A lot of things impair driving, and you shouldn't drive while under the influence of them. It's that simple. There is also no evidence whatsoever that marijuana use in anyway causes any addiction to anything else. Yes, there would still be illegal drug dealers selling illegal, but that's completely irrelevant.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> 3. Look how much family problems there are in the world now, plus I've had tons of experiences myself with parents who simply don't know how to raise their kids. They can't find a compromise between too hard/disciplining, or too easy on their child. Also you don't need me to tell you of all the **** you hear going on the world with some parents abusing their children etc, or not knowing what to do when getting pregnant (abortions)


None of this has anything to do with marijuana



> Impaired driving


People who drive impaired are retarded, I agree.



> for some a LOT of people (yes I know not all) it turns them into a completely different person


First of all, you're obviously exaggerating. Second, what's wrong with acting differently at times? I'm sure you are a "completely different person" when you're angry from when you're happy.



> getting addicted to other drugs


Marijuana does not cause addiction to other drugs. Period.



> and I guarantee if it was legalized there would still be huge crimes involving weed and drug dealing etc, guess we'll have to wait to find out.


If weed was legal what huge crimes could be committed? The biggest offenses would be selling to minors (which would and SHOULD still be illegal) and driving under the influence (again, still would be illegal)

Everyone's "teaming up on you" because you're not arguing logically. You're simply stating your opinions and insulting pretty much anyone who disagrees with you.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

hawkmp4 said:


> Are you REALLY attempting to make the gateway drug argument?
> Reason number 5 that IM DUMB YOU'RE!!!!!!!!





Ethan Rosen said:


> 2. So bassically you don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> 3. Once again, you are taking a TINY sample size and assuming that holds true everywhere. I would use an analogy about how you only hear about the soldiers who die in wars, but based on your past posts in this thread I highly doubt you would understand it.
> 
> 4. A lot of things impair driving, and you shouldn't drive while under the influence of them. It's that simple. There is also no evidence whatsoever that marijuana use in anyway causes any addiction to anything else. Yes, there would still be illegal drug dealers selling illegal, but that's completely irrelevant.



2. You have no idea what your talking about either, you high right now?

3. ....... Talk about narrow minded, 

4. your HILARIOUS 


@Blade: I didn't insult anyone besides making my statement "Potheads are morons" sorry that people are offended by that, I didn't mean it as a direct insult at ALL, and its my opinion. You did find it insulting but its still my opinion, i have to change it? it's like me MAKING people not do weed, they can do it for all I care.

I mentioned the parent thing also because Ethan started talking about a thread I made in the past and wanted me to back it up, plz read everything (not trying to sound insulting)

And you can honestly tell me NO ONE in the entire world had gone on to other drugs or become addicted after smoking weed?..... there are people who do it all my friend, and of course they start with weed, and if it makes them feel SOO GREAT, why not move onto other drugs?


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> @QQFFEFEFERERERE: Why do I want respect from such immature/despicable people again?


Well...apparently you don't. Why don't you shut up and leave? This is embarrassing to see on a forum where usually people are so nice and intelligent.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> @Blade: Your an idiot as well. Is this getting anywhere?



How about reading the rest of that post, instead of just addressing the part where I called you an idiot.


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

DerrickEide... You express decent points, the problem is that the way you PRESENT them is immature and quite frankly, worse than some new members. I'd think you'd learn by now. 



My third grade teacher said:


> You can have the greatest essay in the world, but it doesnt matter if you turn it in with sloppy handwriting.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick, the gateway drug theory has no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Your logic simply doesn't work. Just because someone smokes marijuana doesn't mean that they don't know that drugs like heroin are bad for them...


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

hawkmp4 said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > @QQFFEFEFERERERE: Why do I want respect from such immature/despicable people again?
> ...





blade740 said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > @Blade: Your an idiot as well. Is this getting anywhere?
> ...





Edward said:


> DerrickEddie... You express decent points, the problem is that the way you PRESENT them is immature and quite frankly, worse than some new members. I'd thin you'd learn by now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




@Hawk: OMG USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION!! LOL NOOB! yeah people are really nice on here....

@Blade: Why am I interested in what else someone has to say when they are so rude/insulting when I did nothing to them first of all?

@Edward: My name is spelled Derrick Eide, don't know if you misspelled it on purpose or not cause apparently there are immature people like that on here. Also there are people WAY more immature than me on here trust me, You get what you give, and frankly I am NOT rude to any person unless they are rude to me first. I can handle myself maturely with only mature people though.

@Ethan: Please I need you to answer this, to make sure you are actually for real. You can actually say to me, that there is no possibility of people moving onto other drugs after trying weed?


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## LewisJ (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick - I'm not going to pick any side in this argument, I enjoy reading this thread as it is generally a good discussion, but having read the last few pages, I have to ask that you argue more coherently. 

First, read over your posts after you type them. Use proper English - this means "you're" instead of "your" in sentences like "Your an idiot as well."

Second, stop using unbased ad hominem attacks in your argument. Calling people idiots is not going to help your argument at all. Asking people what their qualification/experience to say something might be, or where they got some fact or statistic is fine, but calling people idiots is not. 

Third, stop taking this argument so personally. Taking a debate personally is almost never beneficial, and that applies here. 

Fourth, slow down in your replies and instead make more fleshed out responses. They will be more substantial in your argument, make the discussion more interesting, and give you a chance to express your reasonable opinion and cite sources rather than argue with insults and generalizations. Just be more careful and think your posts out more and this thread will get much better.

That's all.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

Of course there is a possibility of people who use weed moving on to other drugs. Nobody wakes up one day after a lifetime of sobriety and says, "I think I'm gonna shoot up heroin today." That doesn't change the fact that it is a personal choice, the marijuana didn't actually cause that...


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> @Edward: *My name is spelled Derrick Eide*, don't know if you misspelled it on purpose or not cause apparently there are immature people like that on here. Also there are people WAY more immature than me on here trust me, You get what you give, and frankly I am NOT rude to any person unless they are rude to me first. *I can handle myself maturely with only mature people though.*



1.My bad, It looks like Derick eddie. Hold on Ill edit it...

2. Then do that here. 

Oh no, I think I've joined this argument. Time to put on the logic cap.


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

EDIT: No, I'm done here. I can't handle this idiot any longer. Good luck to you all. I'll be lurking.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> blade740 said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...



1) You insulted me. You flat-out said "all potheads are morons" before I said a WORD to you. 
2) I apologize. I shouldn't have brought personal attacks into this debate. However, I'd still like you to read the rest of my post, where I presented my views, my impression of your views, and gave a few concrete facts.

@everyone in this topic:
Please, try to stay on topic. We're not here to debate on Derrick's debate skills. I believe we can still have a meaningful debate if everyone (ON BOTH SIDES) can stop trying to discredit each other and start talking about the topic at hand.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

LewisJ said:


> Derrick - I'm not going to pick any side in this argument, I enjoy reading this thread as it is generally a good discussion, but having read the last few pages, I have to ask that you argue more coherently.
> 
> First, read over your posts after you type them. Use proper English - this means "you're" instead of "your" in sentences like "Your an idiot as well."
> 
> ...




1. You might want to tell that to other on here first though, I wasn't the one who started the "idiot" insults etc.

2. I'm not taking this argument personally, I was just trying to express my opinion, and that I despise people who do weed, I think it's wrong and it changes people for the worse. Then people jumped on me, I continued to argue without becoming insulting by any means, then I got called an "idiot" more than once. :confused: 

LewisJ and Edward, have I insulted them or been totally outrageous in my replies to them in any way? No, I wonder why.... Maybe because they can reply themselves in a mature and decent way...

@Blade: I apologize as well then.

@Ethan: The weed played a part though did it not?


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

hawkmp4 said:


> @ @Edward- Immature people like...you? "@QQFFEFEFERERERE:"


This is my first day of really getting my act straight and trying to be a better member of the forums. Yes my older posts were immature/unhelpful/etc. but I'm definitely changing now.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

hawkmp4 said:


> @ @Ethan- Of course there's a possibility that people will try weed then try, for example, heroin. *But no more likely is that, than someone who tries heroin out of the blue. There's just no correlation.*



I actually happen to disagree with this. I don't have a statistic handy, but I'd be very willing to bet that the first drug most heroin users tried was marijuana. That said though, I stand by my belief that the marijuana has nothing to do with the use of harder drugs, and it's a personal choice. From what I've seen/read about though, these people almost always start out with marijuana, but they personally made what is in my opinion the stupid choice to move on.


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Edward said:


> hawkmp4 said:
> 
> 
> > @ @Edward- Immature people like...you? "@QQFFEFEFERERERE:"
> ...



I'm sorry for the confusion, Edward, that was not about you in any way. My apologies. I was meaning to refer to his statement that was prefaced by @Edward. I didn't make that clear. No offense was meant to you- only Derrick. I meant that he was being hypocritical by whining about you misspelling his name accidentally when he clearly and deliberately misspelled qqwref's just a few posts earlier in the thread.


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## qqwref (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> LewisJ said:
> 
> 
> > Second, stop using unbased ad hominem attacks in your argument. Calling people idiots is not going to help your argument at all. Asking people what their qualification/experience to say something might be, or where they got some fact or statistic is fine, but calling people idiots is not.
> ...


Are you really sure you want to argue this?


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> hawkmp4 said:
> 
> 
> > @ @Ethan- Of course there's a possibility that people will try weed then try, for example, heroin. *But no more likely is that, than someone who tries heroin out of the blue. There's just no correlation.*
> ...


I know I said I was done, but you replied to my post before I edited it out so I feel compelled to answer that.
Yeah, you're right. That was poor wording/poor arguing on my part. I guess what I meant to say was that smoking marijuana does not change people's attitudes about other drugs. If someone is not going to smoke meth, for example, smoking weed isn't going to change that at all. Which is the opposite of which the (faulty) gateway drug theory says.


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

hawkmp4 said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > hawkmp4 said:
> ...


Oh OK. Apology accepted.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > LewisJ said:
> ...



Did I actually call someone an idiot? and I'm not trying to use some type of worthless excuse like "I SAID MORON NOT IDIOT", just the fact that I didn't in anyway directly insult someone. NOR was I trying to sheepishly insult anyone behind their backs by saying "Potheads are morons", I think pot is a HORRIBLE decision, it's moronic in my mind because of the things I've mentioned. I said my opinion, and I got actually insulted by more than one person including you Michael. 

@Hawk: Are you serious? go a few posts back? I AM NEVER RANDOMLY RUDE TO PEOPLE FOR NO REASON. Michael purposely spelled my name wrong first so why should I sit here and take such disrespect.


----------



## LewisJ (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> 1. You might want to tell that to other on here first though, I wasn't the one who started the "idiot" insults etc.
> 
> 2. I'm not taking this argument personally, I was just trying to express my opinion, and that I despise people who do weed, I think it's wrong and it changes people for the worse. Then people jumped on me, I continued to argue without becoming insulting by any means, then I got called an "idiot" more than once. :confused:
> 
> LewisJ and Edward, have I insulted them or been totally outrageous in my replies to them in any way? No, I wonder why.... Maybe because they can reply themselves in a mature and decent way...



Regardless of who started it, you don't need to continue it. If only one side shoots insults, it only makes that side look bad. If you stop, it is beneficial, no matter who threw the first insult. If the other side continues to insult you, it only makes them look worse. If they started it, again, it only makes them look worse, but replying with your own insults won't make you look any better.

I agree that you didn't take this argument personally at first, but after insults began to fly it looks like you started taking it very personally. Of course you're entitled to your opinion and have a right to express it, but try to do it without any personal involvement; you don't need to be involved with any insults, throwing or receiving. It simply does not contribute to any intelligent debate.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

LewisJ said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. You might want to tell that to other on here first though, I wasn't the one who started the "idiot" insults etc.
> ...



I don't just sit there and let people insult me nor ridicule my beliefs. Sorry LewisJ, I respect your posts and glad I can actually talk to you in a civil manner. I know it was not best to keep it up but Like I said I'm not going to be ganged up on. Also another reason why I took it so personally after being clearly insulted and ridiculed because of my Thoughts and beliefs.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

Edward said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > @Hawk: Are you serious? go a few posts back? I AM NEVER RANDOMLY RUDE TO PEOPLE FOR NO REASON. Michael purposely spelled my name wrong first so why should I sit here and take such disrespect.
> ...



So let me get this straight... If I went outside, right now and say... attacked someone, stole from someone, they have NO RIGHT to be mad?
It's not whining, it's only common courtesy to not randomly insult others and show such disrespect. If I punch you in the face you have no right to want to punch me back? there is NO logic in that.... People can do whatever they want with no consequence?


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Did I actually call someone an idiot? and I'm not trying to use some type of worthless excuse like "I SAID MORON NOT IDIOT", just the fact that I didn't in anyway directly insult someone. NOR was I trying to sheepishly insult anyone behind their backs by saying "Potheads are morons", I think pot is a HORRIBLE decision, it's moronic in my mind because of the things I've mentioned. I said my opinion, and I got actually insulted by more than one person including you Michael.



If that was your opinion you should've stated it like that. You should say "Potheads are making a moronic decision" THAT is a valid opinion. Making one bad decision doesn't make a person a moron, or a complete retard, or anything of the sort.



> @Hawk: Are you serious? go a few posts back? I AM NEVER RANDOMLY RUDE TO PEOPLE FOR NO REASON. Michael purposely spelled my name wrong first so why should I sit here and take such disrespect.



"He did it first" is never an excuse for an action that you yourself said is immature.


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## qqwref (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Did I actually call someone an idiot? and I'm not trying to use some type of worthless excuse like "I SAID MORON NOT IDIOT", just the fact that I didn't in anyway directly insult someone. NOR was I trying to sheepishly insult anyone behind their backs by saying "Potheads are morons", I think pot is a HORRIBLE decision, it's moronic in my mind because of the things I've mentioned. I said my opinion, and I got actually insulted by more than one person including you Michael.


I don't get how you can not see that saying "potheads are morons" insults everyone who uses pot. Try this experiment: go up to a bunch of black people and say "I think black people are morons", or go up to a bunch of Mexicans and say "I think Mexicans are morons", or anything else in the same vein. See if they interpret it as an insult or just an "opinion" that isn't meant to directly insult anyone.



Derrick Eide17 said:


> @Hawk: Are you serious? go a few posts back? I AM NEVER RANDOMLY RUDE TO PEOPLE FOR NO REASON. Michael purposely spelled my name wrong first so why should I sit here and take such disrespect.


I meant that as a joke to point out how you spelled my name wrong. I guess I'd have to be a really immature person to enjoy making jokes, right? Or maybe it's just that you can't take a joke, even one that isn't intended maliciously and that doesn't contain anything that could be interpreted as an insult.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> I don't just sit there and let people insult me nor ridicule my beliefs.
> ...
> Also another reason why I took it so personally after being clearly insulted and ridiculed because of my Thoughts and beliefs.



You, in the third post in the topic, said "Potheads are morons" That is an insult to marijuana users, and ridicule of their thoughts and beliefs. Is it not?


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> LewisJ said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...


I really don't see what your talking about. How are you being ganged up on? It is simply a few people who don't agree with your individual takes on the subject.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

@Blade: I agree, that would have been a better way to put it.
Also for the "he did it first" excuse part, read my above post.

@Michael: When Did I Misspell your name wrong? Also I admit I'm a sensitive person in life, but I can take a joke, as you can see when Blade said all canadians are morons. Plus spelling my name wrong on purpose I found just totally disrespectful and rude.

@Ed: I've been called an idiot by Ethan, Hawk, QQwerf Which I didn't think/or say any of them where. I can understand just arguing the subject, but when they started insulting, or throwing out childish insults, I don't take that sorry.


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 9, 2009)

Oh my gosh - I am so over reading these now.
Derrick, you have like, wrecked this thread..
There is no point arguing, you aren't going to change peoples opinion and it's soo off topic its silly!


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...



Yes, my post was a little, eh... off. I deleted it, sorry.
Though I still meant what I said. If you stole from someone, they'd report you. If you attacked someone, they'd call the police. But you're right, if you came up and randomly punched me, we'd have a fight on our hands.


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## LewisJ (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> I don't just sit there and let people insult me nor ridicule my beliefs. Sorry LewisJ, I respect your posts and glad I can actually talk to you in a civil manner. I know it was not best to keep it up but Like I said I'm not going to be ganged up on. Also another reason why I took it so personally after being clearly insulted and ridiculed because of my Thoughts and beliefs.



Just calm down and remember that this is just a discussion on the internet - you have nothing to prove personally aside from your opinion, and nobody is going to think any less of you for not responding to insults with insults.


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 9, 2009)

I agree with LewisJ.


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## cmhardw (Nov 9, 2009)

:fp

Oh my holy God, can a mod please close this thread? Based on where this thread started and where it ended up, I think we can clearly say that it no longer serves a purpose on this forum. I, for one, was enjoying the discussion of how the thread started too.

Chris


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Oh my gosh - I am so over reading these now.
> Derrick, you have like, wrecked this thread..
> There is no point arguing, you aren't going to change peoples opinion and it's soo off topic its silly!





Edward said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > Edward said:
> ...





LewisJ said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't just sit there and let people insult me nor ridicule my beliefs. Sorry LewisJ, I respect your posts and glad I can actually talk to you in a civil manner. I know it was not best to keep it up but Like I said I'm not going to be ganged up on. Also another reason why I took it so personally after being clearly insulted and ridiculed because of my Thoughts and beliefs.
> ...



@Beautifully Decayed: I wasn't trying to change other peoples opinions at all, where did I tell others to stop smoking pot? 

@LewisJ: Yeah LewisJ im calm, not like Im screaming at my computer screen while typing this, just replying like everyone else and have even apologized to some people on here throughout. And like I said i can't help it, I don't like being called an idiot just like I sure no one else does.

@Qqwref: I looked back and am sorry, I didn't know that I put Qqwerf instead of Qqwref, I actually thought it WAS Qqwerf and get it mixed up a lot.
My apologies


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> :fp
> 
> Oh my holy God, can a mod please close this thread? Based on where this thread started and where it ended up, I think we can clearly say that it no longer serves a purpose on this forum. I, for one, was enjoying the discussion of how the thread started too.
> 
> Chris



Aren't you a moderator? I'm confused now.


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## cmhardw (Nov 9, 2009)

Edward said:


> Aren't you a moderator? I'm confused now.



I have no mod powers in off topic.

Chris


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 9, 2009)

I really seriously just wanted a few questions answered to help my understanding of pot and make a decision I think is important in my life..
Now no one is interested in helping and more in proving you wrong..


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> I really seriously just wanted a few questions answered to help my understanding of pot and make a decision I think is important in my life..
> Now no one is interested in helping and more in proving you wrong..



Just read everything before the argum~*ahem* Discussion started.


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 9, 2009)

Yeah, I have but I had a few more questions I don't think people noticed .. or just couldn't help with.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> I really seriously just wanted a few questions answered to help my understanding of pot and make a decision I think is important in my life..
> Now no one is interested in helping and more in proving you wrong..



and there is the problem, trying to prove me wrong. It's like my opinion is the only one trying to be changed here? I don't want start ANYTHING new here but really....

Also I agree with Blade that "Potheads are making a moronic decision" would have been a better way for me to put it, especially since I wasn't trying to be insulting to anyone directly when I said so anyhow.


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 9, 2009)

Lets just drop it.


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Yeah, I have but I had a few more questions I don't think people noticed .. or just couldn't help with.



Maybe try detailing all your questions in the first post next time?



BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Lets just drop it.


Gladly.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> :fp
> 
> Oh my holy God, can a mod please close this thread? Based on where this thread started and where it ended up, I think we can clearly say that it no longer serves a purpose on this forum. I, for one, was enjoying the discussion of how the thread started too.
> 
> Chris



Do you mind if I ask your opinion on the subject?


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> BeautifullyDecayed. said:
> 
> 
> > I really seriously just wanted a few questions answered to help my understanding of pot and make a decision I think is important in my life..
> ...


Give it a rest, please.
BeautifullyDecayed, I'd be glad to talk to you about any questions you have. Just not on a public forum. IRC, Yahoo IM, or my email all work for me if you're interested.


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 9, 2009)

Yes.. I should have but only came up with more things I wanted to know after the discussion had started.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

hawkmp4 said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > BeautifullyDecayed. said:
> ...



Do you see me commenting anymore until now? I can express my opinion if I want, Can I not? How am I being rude now? Yet again you are trying to silence me?


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Yes.. I should have but only came up with more things I wanted to know after the discussion had started.



Maybe you can ask a mod if you can make a new thread, but this time, detailing all questions beforehand. With what just happened, I doubt that one will have any trouble.


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## cmhardw (Nov 9, 2009)

blade740 said:


> Do you mind if I ask your opinion on the subject?



In my own personal opinion, and yes these are my own personal opinions just as others have their own personal opinions:

1) Should marijuana be legalized, regulated, and taxed? Absolutely.

2) Should driving under the influence of marijuana, using marijuana in any situation where alcohol is equally banned be still considered illegal? Absolutely.

Chris


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## Hadley4000 (Nov 9, 2009)

I know that a lot of people are saying to drop it, but I would like to get in my two cents really quick.

The college I go to was just recently ranked #8 on the biggest pothead list in the country, so I have been around a lot of it. I have friends who smoke several times a day, and are great people. Intelligent, nice, and do very well in their classes. True, there are some people who are total screwoffs, but ANYTHING that is not done in moderation can cause negative affects physically or psychologically.

I have seen more negative effects come out of people who use alcohol regularly. Just last night a guy I know drank far too much, and had a total freakout, ran away. We spent hours trying to find him and were worried he would become suicidal. I have seen this same guy, along with many others smoke a ton in one night, and sit around really happy, really chill, and do nothing more than have a few laughs and gorge themselves on junkfood.


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> hawkmp4 said:
> 
> 
> > Derrick Eide17 said:
> ...


Yeah, I actually DID see you commenting. And in your comment, you complained about how you thought the discussion was unfair. You posted that knowing fully well that it would start something. Now, you want to drop it? DROP IT. Talk about the original topic, and quit bringing something back up then complaining when someone responds to it.


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

Id also like to say one more thing
What defines a moderate amount? How can I eat my cookies in "moderation' if one guy says 3 cookies are moderate, another guy says 2 are, and some other dude says 1 cookie is the moderate amount. Wouldn't it be better to just not eat at all, less I risk going over the cookie limit? I suppose common sense would guide me, but...


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 9, 2009)

Yes, I don't mean drop the discussion on marijuana.. just drop the pointless arguments!
The thing I'm worried about is losing any motivation to study, and also getting hooked and getting bad side effects due to my young age.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Nov 9, 2009)

hawkmp4 said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > hawkmp4 said:
> ...




Actually things settled down a LOT last few posts. I wasn't really posting anything about all what went on before. I also added in one small comment that really wasn't rude in ANY shape way or form, just like you can post on here too. Then you come along telling me to still drop it? What am I doing wrong now please? Sure the discussion was unfair but now you yourself are bringing back the old argument which everyone (including you apparently) say you want to just drop. So let's drop it Hawk.


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## BeautifullyDecayed. (Nov 9, 2009)

Edward said:


> Id also like to say one more thing
> What defines a moderate amount? How can I eat my cookies in "moderation' if one guy says 3 cookies are moderate, another guy says 2 are, and some other dude says 1 cookie is the moderate amount. Wouldn't it be better to just not eat at all, less I risk going over the cookie limit? I suppose common sense would guide me, but...



Amazing metaphor
and yes, I like your point - many people are saying once a week is 'moderation' but to me this seems like quite a bit.
When people say 'recreational use..' how often is this.?


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## LewisJ (Nov 9, 2009)

Edward said:


> Id also like to say one more thing
> What defines a moderate amount? How can I eat my cookies in "moderation' if one guy says 3 cookies are moderate, another guy says 2 are, and some other dude says 1 cookie is the moderate amount. Wouldn't it be better to just not eat at all, less I risk going over the cookie limit? I suppose common sense would guide me, but...



The law defines moderation on controlled substances like alcohol just as people define moderation on cookies.

edit: 


Derrick Eide17 said:


> Actually things settled down a LOT last few posts. I wasn't really posting anything about all what went on before. I also added in one small comment that really wasn't rude in ANY shape way or form, just like you can post on here too. Then you come along telling me to still drop it? What am I doing wrong now please? Sure the discussion was unfair but now you yourself are bringing back the old argument which everyone (including you apparently) say you want to just drop. So let's drop it Hawk.



You just replied to "drop it" with "drop it." It would be easier to just...you know...drop it.


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Yes, I don't mean drop the discussion on marijuana.. just drop the pointless arguments!
> The thing I'm worried about is losing any motivation to study, and also getting hooked and getting bad side effects due to my young age.



Worried about it? Don't take it. If you know the potential risks, why do you even consider using what you feel might harm you?


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## Hadley4000 (Nov 9, 2009)

Edward said:


> Id also like to say one more thing
> What defines a moderate amount? How can I eat my cookies in "moderation' if one guy says 3 cookies are moderate, another guy says 2 are, and some other dude says 1 cookie is the moderate amount. Wouldn't it be better to just not eat at all, less I risk going over the cookie limit? I suppose common sense would guide me, but...





Moderate amount can vary from person to person. 

I do not smoke pot, so let's use something else as an example. I know my limit for other substances, such as alcohol. I know that MY limit is no more than 1-2 times per week, and within that if I were to have more than 4-5 in a short amount of time, it would cause me to be more intoxicated than I would prefer. There are some people I know who could drink far more than that and still be coherent, and some people who can get very intoxicated off of 2-3 drinks.

You have to figure out moderation for yourself, be it with pot, alcohol, nicotine, food, anything you put into your body.


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## Edward (Nov 9, 2009)

Hadley4000 said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > Id also like to say one more thing
> ...


But once you find your limit with a drug, I'll bet your probably already addicted.


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## Hadley4000 (Nov 9, 2009)

Edward said:


> Hadley4000 said:
> 
> 
> > Edward said:
> ...



I know my limit with alcohol, but am not addicted. Alcohol is a drug, THC is a drug. Both can be addicting, but both can easily be consumed in a non addictive manner.


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## Ethan Rosen (Nov 9, 2009)

BeautifullyDecayed. said:


> Yes, I don't mean drop the discussion on marijuana.. just drop the pointless arguments!
> The thing I'm worried about is losing any motivation to study, and also getting hooked and getting bad side effects due to my young age.



As far as I know, there is no study that actually proves anything in either direction in terms of motivation to study, so I'll have to use personal experience here. IMO, the reasoning behind the stereotype of the lazy stoner is because a lot of the users were lazy about schoolwork to begin with. I'll yet again repeat that I know many people that go to/are applying to excellent colleges who use marijuana quite a bit (more than once a week.) To put it simply, I haven't seen anyone who started off as a really hard worker, started smoking pot, and ended up a lazy slacker, nor have I seen it go in the opposite direction. Basically, pot doesn't really affect study habits, as long as you don't smoke it when you would usually be studying.

@Edward: Why get in a car? You know that everytime you get in a car you risked winding up in the hospital after a car accident. Actually, why go outside at all? Every time you go outside you could be struck by a meteorite. Whoa whoa hold on a second, meteorites can go through roofs. Seems to me like you want an underground bunker. That you you'll be safe from almost all risks. (O wait, being underground doesn't stop Super AIDS!)

Also, marijuana is not physically addictive.


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## Davepencilguin (Nov 9, 2009)

I'm only going to live once (unless reincarnation is real ), and that life is reasonably short compared to the rest of the universe.
Even if marijuana somehow shortens your life, (I don't think there's anything too wrong with it.) so what?

I'd rather live 50 years really happy than 70 years less happy.


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## blade740 (Nov 9, 2009)

Edward said:


> Id also like to say one more thing
> What defines a moderate amount? How can I eat my cookies in "moderation' if one guy says 3 cookies are moderate, another guy says 2 are, and some other dude says 1 cookie is the moderate amount. Wouldn't it be better to just not eat at all, less I risk going over the cookie limit? I suppose common sense would guide me, but...



It really is just common sense. It's about judging the situation for yourself and deciding how many cookies will fill your desire for a snack. You have to look at what your goal is, and how cookies will help you best achieve that goal. Not enough cookies and you're still a bit hungry. Too many cookies and you'll start to feel sick (plus your cookies won't last as long!). You can look at the nutrient content of the cookies and see how many would be healthy to eat. There are so many factors that it's impossible to come up with a clear limit.

With marijuana I limit myself like this: First and foremost, if it's a financial burden, that's too much. When you sell your possessions for drug money, you have a problem. I know BEFORE I light up how long I'm going to be high, and if my plans for the next few hours involve things that would be adversely affected by being high (like school, or driving), it's a bad idea. I don't get high for the sake of getting high. I use marijuana in order to relax when I'm feeling stressed, in order to gain a new perspective on something, and (most of all) as a sleep aid.


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## hawkmp4 (Nov 9, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> BeautifullyDecayed. said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I don't mean drop the discussion on marijuana.. just drop the pointless arguments!
> ...



Yes- I agree. There's nothing showing any indication of "demotivational syndrome" as I've heard it called. Another thing I've noticed is that if someone is overtired, being high makes them more aware of that and they're more inclined to sleep. Now, it may very well be a completely inappropriate time to be asleep, but it's not sleepiness created by the drug I don't think, I think it's that people are more aware in general of how their body feels and many people are chronically sleep deprived.
For a period of time someone I was very close to had a lot of problems in his family and ended up getting kicked out of his house by his abusive father. All the while, he'd been smoking weed and his grades were improving. He used small amounts of weed (2 or 3 drags of a small pipe) 2 or 3 times a week to manage his anxiety disorder. This small amount allowed him to focus on the things that didn't matter instead of fixating on his irrational anxiety.


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## CL_Pepsi (Nov 9, 2009)

@ Blade- Exactly, that's what I tell my friends who are clean.....


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## Bryan (Nov 9, 2009)

blade740 said:


> vgbjason said:
> 
> 
> > I just want you guys to think about how much less crime there would be if pot was legal.
> ...



What would you expect the drug dealers would do after the marijuana market dries up?


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## brunson (Nov 9, 2009)

Bryan said:


> blade740 said:
> 
> 
> > vgbjason said:
> ...


Girl Scout cookies, most likely. Those things are addictive and they're only available once a year.


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## dunpeal2064 (Nov 9, 2009)

I would have to say that even something like Magic: The Gathering or any kind of trading card game would be more addictive than weed. 

its gambling for kids! I know i've spent more money on cards than weed, and got a lot less fun out of it xD


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## anythingtwisty (Nov 10, 2009)

Bryan said:


> blade740 said:
> 
> 
> > vgbjason said:
> ...


Drug dealers will always have more to sell than just marijuana, but legalizing marijuana would be a great first step in reducing crime.


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## MichaelP. (Nov 10, 2009)

Ya, this is actually one of our arguments in debate class. Make marijuana legal, tax it and have the states sell it. Use money to create a support social service program for low income individuals with HIV in the USA.


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## Dene (Nov 10, 2009)

SMOKING CAUSES IMPOTENCE.


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## Gurplex2 (Nov 10, 2009)

I used to rip a bowl like everyday in grade 10 and a bit of 9.
its no big deal, just dont do stupid **** and you'll be perfectly fine.
i stopped, but i didnt get any more stupid schoolwise.
its just for like chilling and having a good time/socializing, it actually gets boring and expensive which is why i stopped.


P.S. @BeatifullyDecayed.,post#202: to finally answer your question, I'd say its good!
its an amazing stress reliever, i was going through a really shitty time back then


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## Tyson (Nov 10, 2009)

If you are concerned for the health of your citizens, then alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana in almost every sense. It is irrational to ban marijuana and allow alcohol or cigarettes, both of which are much worse than marijuana.


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## MichaelErskine (Nov 10, 2009)

Meh! Dope is overrated: I smoked my way through school/college/university and quit in '95 when I realised it held nothing for me. I don't regret it much but I'm pretty sure I could've done something better


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## Tyson (Nov 11, 2009)

msemtd said:


> Meh! Dope is overrated: I smoked my way through school/college/university and quit in '95 when I realised it held nothing for me. I don't regret it much but I'm pretty sure I could've done something better



Sure, and no one argues that perhaps your time could have been more productive otherwise. But if alcohol and cigarettes are legal, then marijuana should be legal as well.

Either the government needs to draw a line somewhere on what it wants to regulate, and what it feels its citizens are allowed to decide for themselves.


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## brunson (Nov 11, 2009)

As usual, Tyson enters as the voice of reason. 

I liken the $15 trillion failure we call "The War on Drugs" to prohibition. It didn't work then and it isn't going to work now. Milton Friedman (Nobel prize winner in economics) put forth the treatise that any time you ban a commodity you create a black market for it, with all the corruption and violence that goes along with any black market. Prohibition contributed to the rise of the mafia due to their involvement in rum running, similarly gang violence is exacerbated by "turf wars" to protect their black markets.

Imagine the education and recovery programs we could have established with the TRILLIONS of dollars we've spent on the failed effort to keep drugs out of the country much less the money we could have made from taxing them. We could have pretty much eliminated the national debt with the savings.

In response to the statements to the of "anyone that smokes weed is an idiot", I'll point out that both Carl Sagan and Richard Feynman state they smoked marijuana on a regular basis. Sagan said he got many of his best ideas under the influence and Feynman won a Nobel prize in physics. Any substance can be used responsibly or abused.


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## Tyson (Nov 11, 2009)

Anybody who declares that only idiots smoke weed is simply ignorant. Would you say the same thing about alcohol? No, because alcohol is culturally accepted.

People simply need to look at the facts.

http://www.udel.edu/chem/theopold/chem465/copland.udel.edu/~rmarcus/drug chart.gif

And right, if used responsibly, I would say marijuana is better than some acne-faced kid who doesn't shower for weeks on end because he's just playing World of Warcraft.


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## Escher (Nov 11, 2009)

Tyson said:


> Anybody who declares that only idiots smoke weed is simply ignorant. Would you say the same thing about alcohol? No, because alcohol is culturally accepted.
> 
> People simply need to look at the facts.
> 
> ...



I don't disagree with you, but isn't 'physical harm' a little limited when looking at the 'harm' of drugs?
I was talking to a Doctor I know the other day and he mentioned the Harm Index as a way of measuring harm from drug use, that includes not just physical harm but harm to other areas of the individuals life and activity. A lengthy bit of info is on it here:
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/rdsolr2405.pdf


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## Tyson (Nov 11, 2009)

That's a bit long for me to read right now, but I'll definitely check it out.

Another way to look at it is to simply look at I guess, the societal damage that the drugs do.

How many alcoholics are there? How many people are addicted to marijuana? I guess to define 'addicted' here, we'd have to say that you're addicted when the drug starts affecting your life, such as work, school, or whatever. If you miss work because of alcohol, that's a problem.

(And I can't tell you how many times I've seen people come into work hungover, or calling in sick from alcohol.) I've never heard of someone smoking up, and then being unable to go into work the next morning. I just don't think marijuana trashes your system like alcohol.

How many deaths are caused by alcohol vs. marijuana? It is pretty much impossible to overdose on marijuana. And if you think about drunk driving, alcohol is pretty terrible.

I think if I got high every day of the week for a month, and someone got drunk every day of the week for a month, the marijuana user would come out on top. (not that I'm willing to test this out...)


----------



## Escher (Nov 11, 2009)

Tyson said:


> I think if I got high every day of the week for a month, and someone got drunk every day of the week for a month, the marijuana user would come out on top. (not that I'm willing to test this out...)



It's funny that you mention this; you mustn't have seen 'Super High Me'.
Doug Benson (the comedian who made the documentary) actually saw his sperm count and scores on an SAT rise after 30 days of taking the drug daily...
Although he did put on 8 pounds (munchies anyone?).


----------



## DavidWoner (Nov 11, 2009)

Escher said:


> Tyson said:
> 
> 
> > I think if I got high every day of the week for a month, and someone got drunk every day of the week for a month, the marijuana user would come out on top. (not that I'm willing to test this out...)
> ...



You also must not have seen this documentary*.

As for the so-called social detriments of marijuana, it has actually led me to become best friends with a lot of people that I otherwise would not have spent much time with. It's also a great opportunity to get out and explore the city and some local trails/parks, instead of just sitting in someone's basement playing video games or something.

*"documentary" used in the loosest sense of the word.


----------



## Escher (Nov 11, 2009)

Something else that those interested in the debate might like to read:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00638/Professor_Nutt_pape_638397a.pdf


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## Dene (Nov 11, 2009)

ONLY IDIOTS SMOKE WEED.


On a more serious note, I may as well point out that I would be much happier if alcohol was eradicated from the earth. Unfortunately, not such a practical hope. I also agree that drugs should stay banned, but definitely not as bad as alcohol. I'm glad that the NZ government is seriously considering raising the drinking age back up to 20 here.


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## MichaelErskine (Nov 11, 2009)

Alcohol & Weed are like Apples & Oranges: they don't stand side by side in so many of the comparisons being made here.

Neither is inherently evil. You make your choices and deal with the consequences. 

Know your limits, be considerate of others, and enjoy yourself but above all stay safe


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## qqwref (Nov 11, 2009)

Dene said:


> On a more serious note, I may as well point out that I would be much happier if alcohol was eradicated from the earth.



This is actually literally impossible. Alcohol is the product of the metabolization reactions (fermentation) of many types of microorganisms. I've accidentally produced small amounts of alcohol myself through just leaving sugary liquids around too long.

It'd be nice if alcohol wasn't such a huge part of culture, but there's no way that's going to happen without a gigantic awareness campaign for what it can do to people (and people caring about that), like what they have been doing with smoking for a couple of decades.


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## RubiksMathMaster (Nov 11, 2009)

PEOPLE SMOKE WEED CUZ THEY THINK THEIR COOL. POTHEADS ARE STUPID AND THATS THE FINAL ANSWER RIGHT OFF THE BACK, NO EXCEPTIONS. IF YOU SMOKE IT GUESS WHAT?, YOU'VE JUST RUINED UR WHOLE LIFE...


----------



## Swordsman Kirby (Nov 11, 2009)

RubiksMathMaster said:


> PEOPLE SMOKE WEED CUZ THEY THINK THEIR COOL. POTHEADS ARE STUPID AND THATS THE FINAL ANSWER RIGHT OFF THE BACK, NO EXCEPTIONS. IF YOU SMOKE IT GUESS WHAT?, YOU'VE JUST RUINED UR WHOLE LIFE...



um... lol


----------



## DavidWoner (Nov 11, 2009)

Just in case you tl;dr Rowan's article, here are some interesting excerpts:



> There have been some horrifi c examples where some of the so-called ‘top’ scientific journals have published poor quality research about the harms of drugs such as cannabis or ecstasy, sometimes having to retract the articles. The problem is, you never see the retractions, you just see the front page of newspapers saying ‘ecstasy fries your brain’. The retraction explaining that methamphetamine rather than ecstasy was given by mistake is much less visible, if published at all!





> So there’s a peculiar imbalance in terms of reporting that is clearly inappropriate in relation to the relative harms of ecstasy compared with other drugs





> So, overall, cannabis use does not lead to major health problems.



I'll finish reading it later, its interesting but I have things to do.


----------



## daniel0731ex (Nov 11, 2009)

marijuana should be limited for only medical uses, and requires a liscence to produce/own/sell/use. end of discussion.


----------



## blade740 (Nov 11, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> end of discussion.



Oh, thanks, I thought we were just going to keep discussing until nobody had anything else to discuss.


----------



## Innocence (Nov 11, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> marijuana should be limited for only medical uses, and requires a liscence to produce/own/sell/use. end of discussion.



How did you draw that conclusion with what has been said here?

My personal opinion on the matter is that all mind-altering substances aren't the best thing for you, as the human mind is the way it is for a reason. That said, I would much prefer marijuana to be legalized, because if people are going to waste their money on something, I'd prefer it to be something of a calming nature, unlike alcohol.

I see it this way: If there is more MJ readily available, then there will be more money being spent on it. If there is more money being spent on it, then there will be less being spent on alcohol, cigarettes, and other 'hard' drugs.

Yes, I'm aware that because another commodity exists, there is more wealth in the economy, but the average joe probably wouldn't be making his money from weed. (Except in present times, obviously)

EDIT: I was inclined to think so, too. I don't really think he has power to end the discussion anyway.


----------



## qqwref (Nov 11, 2009)

blade740 said:


> daniel0731ex said:
> 
> 
> > end of discussion.
> ...



That would be awful. It's a good thing daniel is here.


----------



## cmhardw (Nov 11, 2009)

RubiksMathMaster said:


> PEOPLE SMOKE WEED CUZ THEY THINK THEIR COOL. POTHEADS ARE STUPID AND THATS THE FINAL ANSWER RIGHT OFF THE BACK, NO EXCEPTIONS. IF YOU SMOKE IT GUESS WHAT?, YOU'VE JUST RUINED UR WHOLE LIFE...



Thanks for stating your opinion in this thread, even if some of us don't share the same opinions as you.

One useful tip: to get more respect on this forum you really should press the key to the left of the letter "A" on your QWERTY keyboard. Make sure the little light on your keyboard that comes on when you do this is turned off. Contrary to popular belief, that little light does *not* signify that "Respect me more" mode is engaged.

Chris


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## anythingtwisty (Nov 11, 2009)

I find the situation with MDMA (ecstasy) to be quite similar. A huge problem that started occurring when ecstasy was banned is the problem of impurities and adulterants. Due to the (il)legal status of ecstacy in most countries, methamphetamine, caffeine, cocaine, and other substances are sold as ecstasy, all of which have worse effects than pure MDMA. If you want to learn more about this subject, search for the documentary Ecstasy Rising on Google Video. It was made by ABC and is very well done.


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## masterofthebass (Nov 11, 2009)

The problem with MDMA is the after effects of the drug. Due to the massive amount of seratonin given off, if someone were to use MDMA, the time after the high is quite depressing, possibly leading to various things. Also, you can overdose on it relatively easily.


----------



## Dene (Nov 11, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> RubiksMathMaster said:
> 
> 
> > PEOPLE SMOKE WEED CUZ THEY THINK THEIR COOL. POTHEADS ARE STUPID AND THATS THE FINAL ANSWER RIGHT OFF THE BACK, NO EXCEPTIONS. IF YOU SMOKE IT GUESS WHAT?, YOU'VE JUST RUINED UR WHOLE LIFE...
> ...



DENE BEGS TO DIFFER, BUT AGREES THAT RUBIKSMATHMASTER IS NOT COOL.


----------



## luke1984 (Nov 11, 2009)

masterofthebass said:


> The problem with MDMA is the after effects of the drug. Due to the massive amount of seratonin given off, if someone were to use MDMA, the time after the high is quite depressing, possibly leading to various things. Also, you can overdose on it relatively easily.



I've tried MDMA on several occasions, and I can say it has been a very special experience every time. I've never overdosed on it, nor have I ever seen anyone overdose on it. My own doses ranged from 60mg to 500mg(spread out of course) and I've never had any side-effects. I've seen people dosing much higher than that without any negative effects. I've seen so many people overdosing on alcohol though, including myself. 
Now I'm NOT saying you should pick MDMA over alcohol, I'm just saying the nature of the effects of alcohol could cause a user to overdose quite easily.

Not cannabis, nor MDMA, nor cocaine have ever been addictive to me. Not any kind of drug for that matter, besides alcohol.

Again, I'm not advocating drug use, I'm just saying what my own experiences have been. There can be negative after effects after using MDMA, but not everyone experiences them and only for a small percentage of people they can be bad. It mostly depends on a persons serotonin metabolism and the way the neurons handle reuptake inhibition of serotonin. 

Some people experience no after effects what so ever, but others do. I've experienced slight emotional discomfort 2 days after use, but it's managable. Alcohol hangover is much, much worse.


----------



## Dave Campbell (Nov 12, 2009)

I am quite pleased with this thread as a whole, as long as you glance over some of the early stuff. And we have discussed at length whether it is good or bad for you. Whether it should be legal, illegal, etc. Many interesting and valid points were brought up.

I was hoping more people would have commented on my question about the affect of it on your cubing. But in general terms, I did see some people state it makes them relaxed more, that it helps them to focus on things better, etc. So my question, which seems inevitable, is this:

What should happen if someone chooses to compete in an official WCA competition high? I don't think we have a rule against this. I saw someone walk up to the timing station at Worlds, put his beer on the side of the timing station and do an official solve. 

To help put it in the right perspective, the question could also easily be: How would you feel if someone beat a WR after he or she smoked a joint?


----------



## MichaelErskine (Nov 12, 2009)

Dave Campbell said:


> How would you feel if someone beat a WR after he or she smoked a joint?



Jealous?


----------



## fanwuq (Nov 12, 2009)

Dave Campbell said:


> To help put it in the right perspective, the question could also easily be: How would you feel if someone beat a WR after he or she smoked a joint?



That would be awesome! I see nothing wrong with it. I don't think any drug can significantly change cubing performance (at least improve it).


----------



## Edward (Nov 12, 2009)

It still amazes me how many people here actually do drugs.


----------



## waffle=ijm (Nov 12, 2009)

Edward said:


> It still amazes me how many people here actually do drugs.



HAHA
SWIM loves it


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## Escher (Nov 12, 2009)

Dave Campbell said:


> What should happen if someone chooses to compete in an official WCA competition high? I don't think we have a rule against this. I saw someone walk up to the timing station at Worlds, put his beer on the side of the timing station and do an official solve.
> 
> To help put it in the right perspective, the question could also easily be: How would you feel if someone beat a WR after he or she smoked a joint?



If it works for you, it works for you...
I actually intend to do this (not set a WR unfortunately) once I've set a few times I'm happy with in competition and can be more relaxed about each solve.
I've only ever solved while high a couple of times and that was before I was at all fast, I'd like to try soon after warming up a bit.

I don't think the WCA should ever set a policy on it.


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Nov 12, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> RubiksMathMaster said:
> 
> 
> > PEOPLE SMOKE WEED CUZ THEY THINK THEIR COOL. POTHEADS ARE STUPID AND THATS THE FINAL ANSWER RIGHT OFF THE BACK, NO EXCEPTIONS. IF YOU SMOKE IT GUESS WHAT?, YOU'VE JUST RUINED UR WHOLE LIFE...
> ...



Hey Chris, just pointing out that the "A" key is placed in the same place on dvorak as in QWERTY, so next time you give this explanation you could include that. I also believe that "A" is placed similarly in the colemak layout, but next to "A" in colemak is a second backspace key. Next time you give this explanation you could point out that colemak users should not follow that advice, just to avoid confusion. 

Also, @rubiksmathmaster

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Just want to point out that literally everything you posted is false and you might not want to ever say that in front of people who actually know what they are talking about. You can thank me later.
Also, please try telling people like Barack Obama, Michael Bloomberg, Michael Phelps, and 42% of the nation that their lives are ruined.


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## qqwref (Nov 12, 2009)

RubiksMathMaster said:


> PEOPLE SMOKE WEED CUZ THEY THINK THEIR COOL. POTHEADS ARE STUPID AND THATS THE FINAL ANSWER RIGHT OFF THE BACK, NO EXCEPTIONS. IF YOU SMOKE IT GUESS WHAT?, YOU'VE JUST RUINED UR WHOLE LIFE...



I decided to recompile this into a bit of freeform poetry


```
people smoke weed cuz they think
    their cool. potheads are stupid
        and that's the                  FINAL answer
                              right off the back,
                      no exceptions.
if you smoke it
                      guess what
                                                 ?,
 you've just          RUINED           ur whole life

                       ...
```


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## blade740 (Nov 12, 2009)

Dave Campbell said:


> I am quite pleased with this thread as a whole, as long as you glance over some of the early stuff.



Like the first 20 or so pages.


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## daniel0731ex (Nov 12, 2009)

Dave Campbell said:


> I am quite pleased with this thread as a whole, as long as you glance over some of the early stuff. And we have discussed at length whether it is good or bad for you. Whether it should be legal, illegal, etc. Many interesting and valid points were brought up.
> 
> I was hoping more people would have commented on my question about the affect of it on your cubing. But in general terms, I did see some people state it makes them relaxed more, that it helps them to focus on things better, etc. So my question, which seems inevitable, is this:
> 
> ...



lol it reminds of this vid:








BTW is it silicon spray at 0:25 ??


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## cmhardw (Nov 12, 2009)

Dave Campbell said:


> To help put it in the right perspective, the question could also easily be: How would you feel if someone beat a WR after he or she smoked a joint?



I think this is something we should take very seriously, because marijuana use is still illegal in most places. I think this should be banned from tournaments, on the grounds that most places consider marijuana use illegal. From a legal standpoint it's like asking how people would feel if a fast speedcuber assaulted a spectator before going up to the timer to set their WR? The activity engaged in is illegal, and thus its use must be banned from tournaments. Now this brings up an interesting point about marijuana use in tournaments where marijuana is *legal*.

Hmm.. I think drinking a beer during a tournament should be allowed as long as you are of legal drinking age, and *as long as you do not cause a disturbance of any kind to other competitors*.

In this case though, I think marijuana should still be banned at tournaments, even if it was legalized worldwide. The problem is that marijuana use at a tournament would cause a disturbance to other competitors via the second hand smoke.

Hmm.. This is interesting, this question actually has me rethinking my stance on legalizing marijuana, or at least on its regulation. If marijuana use is legalized, and its use is allowed in public, then the second hand smoke would cause people to feel effects of marijuana who might not want to. This would be a *huge* negative in my opinion.

How do places like the Netherlands, or places where marijuana use is legal, handle this issue? I think this is a huge issue that must be taken into consideration. If second hand tobacco smoke has ill effects, then second hand marijuana smoke has even worse effects to those who might not want to feel any effects of the THC at all.

Perhaps marijuana should either not be legalized, or should be strictly controlled and it's use only allowed in certain areas with set restrictions. Consider a home with an infant where the parents smoke marijuana regularly. What are the effects of repeated exposure to second hand marijuana smoke to infants as their brain develops? I think this might not be a good situation to allow the more I think about it.

Chris


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## masterofthebass (Nov 12, 2009)

Chris, 

I don't think Dave was implying that someone were to smoke inside the building during a competition. WCA regulations suggest that a venue should be smoke free, and that would definitely apply to marijuana smoke. I don't see a reason for a person under the effect of marijuana to be banned from a competition, as long as that person is not acting out of the ordinary, and creating a disturbance. 

On the second hand smoke issue, I definitely think that if marijuana was legalized, most public places would still not permit the use of it inside. It would be segregated in places, just like tobacco is. As for experiencing second-hand smoke on the street, I really don't think passing by someone smoking a joint is going to make you feel anything.


----------



## PatrickJameson (Nov 12, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> Hmm.. I think drinking a beer during a tournament should be allowed as long as you are of legal drinking age, and *as long as you do not cause a disturbance of any kind to other competitors*.



2f)	Competitors must obey venue regulations and conduct themselves in a manner considerate of others at all times during the competition and while at the competition venue.



cmhardw said:


> In this case though, I think marijuana should still be banned at tournaments, even if it was legalized worldwide. The problem is that marijuana use at a tournament would cause a disturbance to other competitors via the second hand smoke.



I'm not sure how it is in other parts of the world, but in most indoor places that would be appropriate for a competition smoking tobacco is prohibited anyway. We don't seem to have a problem with that at the moment(at least as far as I know).



cmhardw said:


> Hmm.. This is interesting, this question actually has me rethinking my stance on legalizing marijuana, or at least on its regulation. If marijuana use is legalized, and its use is allowed in public, then the second hand smoke would cause people to feel effects of marijuana who might not want to. This would be a *huge* negative in my opinion.
> 
> How do places like the Netherlands, or places where marijuana use is legal, handle this issue? I think this is a huge issue that must be taken into consideration. If second hand tobacco smoke has ill effects, then second hand marijuana smoke has even worse effects to those who might not want to feel any effects of the THC at all.
> 
> Perhaps marijuana should either not be legalized, or should be strictly controlled and it's use only allowed in certain areas with set restrictions. Consider a home with an infant where the parents smoke marijuana regularly. What are the effects of repeated exposure to second hand marijuana smoke to infants as their brain develops? I think this might not be a good situation to allow the more I think about it.



Again I remind you to think about tobacco second hand smoke currently. Of course I don't fully know the effects of both, short term and long term, so I'm just putting that thought out there.


----------



## qqwref (Nov 12, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> Hmm.. This is interesting, this question actually has me rethinking my stance on legalizing marijuana, or at least on its regulation. If marijuana use is legalized, and its use is allowed in public, then the second hand smoke would cause people to feel effects of marijuana who might not want to. This would be a *huge* negative in my opinion.
> [...]
> Perhaps marijuana should either not be legalized, or should be strictly controlled and it's use only allowed in certain areas with set restrictions. Consider a home with an infant where the parents smoke marijuana regularly. What are the effects of repeated exposure to second hand marijuana smoke to infants as their brain develops? I think this might not be a good situation to allow the more I think about it.



We have the exact same problems with tobacco smoke IMO... if I'm out walking around I don't want to have to deal with secondhand smoke of either kind, and I'm sure both kinds of smoke can be damaging to kids (not sure if the effects are known). Personally, as someone who doesn't do either drug, I find tobacco smoke even more annoying than marijuana smoke. I think lawmakers would treat both drugs similarly, though - if tobacco smoke is only allowed outside or a certain distance from offices/restaurants/etc then I'm sure the same restrictions will be applied to marijuana smoke. The two problems have the same causes and the same solutions.


----------



## blade740 (Nov 12, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> Dave Campbell said:
> 
> 
> > To help put it in the right perspective, the question could also easily be: How would you feel if someone beat a WR after he or she smoked a joint?
> ...



I think most everyone would agree that smoking in the venue, or really in any public, central area that would expose others to secondhand smoke should be illegal according to the regulations. What Dave is asking, I think, is this: what if someone were to smoke before competing (outside, away from everyone) then come back inside and set a world record while high?

On the one hand, you could compare it to setting a world record while drunk, but it could also be considered (by some people) a performance-enhancing drug. If we let someone compete after using marijuana, should we let someone compete after using a drug that might be helpful? What about Caffeine? I think it's clear that if someone uses a substance that gives them a clear advantage over the competition it's cheating, but can we really keep cubers from drinking energy drinks at competitions?


----------



## cmhardw (Nov 12, 2009)

masterofthebass said:


> WCA regulations suggest that a venue should be smoke free, and that would definitely apply to marijuana smoke. I don't see a reason for a person under the effect of marijuana to be banned from a competition, as long as that person is not acting out of the ordinary, and creating a disturbance.



This I would definitely agree with, and if marijuana were legalized, or the competition were held in a place where marijuana use is legal, then I think the smoking outside solution would be one that could be viable. As long as the competitor doing so realized they could still be kicked out *if* they created a disturbance inside the venue. The same would obviously apply to anyone drinking alcohol at a tournament.



> As for experiencing second-hand smoke on the street, I really don't think passing by someone smoking a joint is going to make you feel anything.



Yes, and I agree with that, but not everyone would. There are people who are adamantly against the use of marijuana, many of whom post in this thread. Assuming marijuana were legalized, it would be a huge issue to people who are against marijuana in general if people were allowed to smoke on the street. That is moreso why I was asking how the Netherlands handles this issue, as I am sure in the Netherlands there are people who are adamantly against marijuana use.



PatrickJameson said:


> Again I remind you to think about tobacco second hand smoke currently. Of course I don't fully know the effects of both, short term and long term, so I'm just putting that thought out there.



Yes, but sadly tobacco *is* allowed around newborns, and this is detrimental to their health.  Allowing marijuana smoke around newborns has potential to add another substance that newborns can experience second hand that might be detrimental to their health. Obviously the smoke debri would be, but I don't know about the effects of THC on newborns, or even if anyone knows.

Chris


----------



## DavidWoner (Nov 12, 2009)

Dave Campbell said:


> I was hoping more people would have commented on my question about the affect of it on your cubing. But in general terms, I did see some people state it makes them relaxed more, that it helps them to focus on things better, etc. So my question, which seems inevitable, is this:
> 
> What should happen if someone chooses to compete in an official WCA competition high? I don't think we have a rule against this. I saw someone walk up to the timing station at Worlds, put his beer on the side of the timing station and do an official solve.
> 
> To help put it in the right perspective, the question could also easily be: How would you feel if someone beat a WR after he or she smoked a joint?



I have found the effects to be entirely negative, doubly so as far as team BLD is concerned. However, cubing at home is different from cubing in a competition. In a competition, more stress and more nerves are a large factor, and the use of marijuana could downplay these. I know I generally have problems with nerves, especially as far as clock is concerned. While I am certain that smoking would eliminate my nerves, I think it would also greatly impair my ability to solve. Looking ahead as much as I do and turning as fast as I do requires (for me) more concentration than any other puzzle. Basically, the cons outweigh the pros.

I think if someone were to break a WR while high I would probably feel bad for them, because it most likely would have been faster if they were sober.


----------



## daniel0731ex (Nov 12, 2009)

while skimming through the posts in this thread, i sometimes misread "marijuana" as "nakajima". :fp


----------



## Dave Campbell (Nov 12, 2009)

Yes, i most definitely did not mean the competitor is cubing like a rock star with a joint in his mouth at the timing station. I assumed all of this discussion was treating the use of marijuana in the same fashion as tobacco, done outside preferably away from others who do not wish exposure.




fanwuq said:


> I don't think any drug can significantly change cubing performance (at least improve it).



I don't think i agree with this. Everyone reacts to substances differently. Like Andrew pointed out, i too have seen cubers use Redbulls (or similar drink) at a competition to make them feel more awake and aware in an effort to set good times. If i am not mistaken, i think Ryan did this before winning the 2007 US Open. 



DavidWoner said:


> I think if someone were to break a WR while high I would probably feel bad for them, because it most likely would have been faster if they were sober.



Again, though, this is just how it affects you. I have seen first hand someone outperform themselves while solving shortly after smoking a joint. This person was hitting 11s back when 13s were fast. 

I'd worry about having the regulations different depending on location. If we say the WCA standard mirrors the legislation of the venue's location, we could be giving an unfair advantage to the competitors at that competition (and let's be honest, the Dutch guys are fast enough already!).


----------



## esquimalt1 (Nov 12, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> while skimming through the posts in this thread, i sometimes misread "marijuana" as "nakajima". :fp


haha nice


----------



## krazedkat (Nov 12, 2009)

Marijuana has never killed ANYONE... Do some research guys ...


----------



## daniel0731ex (Nov 12, 2009)

if you smoke marijuana you will become like this:


----------



## Ethan Rosen (Nov 12, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> if you smoke marijuana you will become like this:



Or like this:


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## guitardude7241 (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeah, ethan, bill clinton smoked weed too. He was grand.


----------



## daniel0731ex (Nov 12, 2009)

LOL!!


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## fanwuq (Nov 12, 2009)

Dave Campbell said:


> Yes, i most definitely did not mean the competitor is cubing like a rock star with a joint in his mouth at the timing station. I assumed all of this discussion was treating the use of marijuana in the same fashion as tobacco, done outside preferably away from others who do not wish exposure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, you make some good points. It is tough to say what type of doping is legit in any sport. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_performance-enhancing_drugs_in_sport
Maybe it can have an effect on cubing, but I don't think it's serious enough. We don't have the money to test people for a thousand types of chemicals anyway.



esquimalt1 said:


> daniel0731ex said:
> 
> 
> > while skimming through the posts in this thread, i sometimes misread "marijuana" as "nakajima". :fp
> ...


Cubing must be a worse drug than marijuana.


----------



## DavidWoner (Nov 12, 2009)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Is there a WCA regulation against taking drugs? (I'm serious)
> 
> Also, are you aloud to have V/Red Bull/Mother/Monster and other energy drinks. (I don't know if these are sold in America, but they're all similar to Red Bull.)
> 
> ...



People should also abstain from getting a good night's sleep or eating breakfast because it gives you an energy boost and improves concentration.



guitardude7241 said:


> Yeah, ethan, bill clinton smoked weed too. He was grand.



If that's sarcasm then you fail. Clinton oversaw the greatest period of economic expansion in decades. He did a lot for our country, all of which is usually forgotten because of the Lewinski scandal. Some of his personal decisions may have been questionable but he was still a great leader.


----------



## Tim Major (Nov 12, 2009)

DavidWoner said:


> ZB_FTW!!! said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a WCA regulation against taking drugs? (I'm serious)
> ...


Yes, it's against the spirit of cubing


----------



## qqwref (Nov 12, 2009)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> The WCA should ban coffee. The Australian circket team is banned from drinking coffee, because the head of Australian Cricket says they improve reflexes, which it's proven they do. It is not banned in cricket, but Australian players are fined because they think it is against the spirit of the game.
> 
> Even if energy drinks, coffee, or drugs aren't banned, people shouldn't use them.



I strongly disagree. You mention that the reason the Australian players give is that it is "against the spirit of the game"... this is an important point. As I understand it Cricket is a game where teams compete, so it makes sense to not take drugs that give you an advantage, because it is unfair (well, ONLY if the other team does not have access to those drugs, which obviously they do because energy drinks and coffee are like $2 and available everywhere).

On the other hand, what's the "spirit of the game" in cubing? It's simply to go as fast as possible. You're not directly competing against anyone, the spirit is just to solve the cube in as little time as you can manage. Taking small doses of common, legal stimulants to improve your performance is not against the spirit of the game; in fact I guess I'd say it is actually right in line with the spirit of speedcubing, because it makes you faster. Not everyone will agree with me here, but that's my perspective.


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## blade740 (Nov 12, 2009)

You shouldn't be able to use any algorithms at all, because not everybody knows algorithms.


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## cmhardw (Nov 12, 2009)

I've had mixed results with drinking coffee in competitions. Coffee is also proven to improve short term memory temporarily, and this is why I would drink it before a blindfold event sometimes. Sometimes I do very well when caffeinated in competitions, and sometimes I would get jittery or go "too fast" and do terribly in competitions. I've also heard other speedcubers say that caffeine helps for speedsolving, but there comes a point where you get jittery and it hurts your times.

I know this is slightly off topic, but to me coffee doesn't even come close to the effects of a good night's rest (for blindsolving at least).

Chris


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## Tim Major (Nov 12, 2009)

qqwref said:


> ZB_FTW!!! said:
> 
> 
> > The WCA should ban coffee. The Australian circket team is banned from drinking coffee, because the head of Australian Cricket says they improve reflexes, which it's proven they do. It is not banned in cricket, but Australian players are fined because they think it is against the spirit of the game.
> ...



That's like 100m sprinting. If people took drugs to improve there performance, surely this would have them banned. Why is cubing any different? It's not. Drugs and energy drinks and coffee should not be allowed. Even recreational drugs that have no effect on performance. They are in other sports, so why not cubing. Please explain your point of view. Or is your point of view on 100m sprints different as well? I really don't understand you.


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## guitardude7241 (Nov 12, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> Yeah, ethan, bill clinton smoked weed too. He was grand.



If that's sarcasm then you fail. Clinton oversaw the greatest period of economic expansion in decades. He did a lot for our country, all of which is usually forgotten because of the Lewinski scandal. Some of his personal decisions may have been questionable but he was still a great leader.[/QUOTE]

it's not sarcasm.


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## qqwref (Nov 12, 2009)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> That's like 100m sprinting. If people took drugs to improve there performance, surely this would have them banned. Why is cubing any different? It's not. Drugs and energy drinks and coffee should not be allowed. Even recreational drugs that have no effect on performance. They are in other sports, so why not cubing. Please explain your point of view. Or is your point of view on 100m sprints different as well? I really don't understand you.



100m sprint is still a race. It's not an event where everyone gets up and does their sprint separately and has it timed; instead you have a bunch of people all racing against each other and the person who wins gets a medal (unless they get DQ'd). In that case it is really not fair to use drugs. But cubing is pretty much individual - everyone comes and does their solves separately, and whether you won or lost is just shown at the end (and has a lot of randomness anyway), and individual competition rankings don't really matter except at a national or world championship. Essentially, having a fair advantage does not directly hurt anyone in any significant way.


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## Tim Major (Nov 12, 2009)

qqwref said:


> ZB_FTW!!! said:
> 
> 
> > That's like 100m sprinting. If people took drugs to improve there performance, surely this would have them banned. Why is cubing any different? It's not. Drugs and energy drinks and coffee should not be allowed. Even recreational drugs that have no effect on performance. They are in other sports, so why not cubing. Please explain your point of view. Or is your point of view on 100m sprints different as well? I really don't understand you.
> ...


So if Breandan took performance enhancing drugs (no offense Breandan, but you must be taking something to be this fast ), you wouldn't care. What if it helped him win WC 2009? He took the prize money. How is it individual? Then what if he had the WR? That would be unfair on everyone else who wanted it. Personal Records feel nice, but a WR would feel nicer. In no way can you say cubing is an individual sport. There are other competitors wanting to win too?

You confuse me qq.


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## DavidWoner (Nov 12, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> > guitardude7241 said:
> >
> >
> > > Yeah, ethan, bill clinton smoked weed too. He was grand.
> ...



Then high-five!


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## Dirk BerGuRK (Nov 12, 2009)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Drugs and energy drinks and coffee should not be allowed. Even recreational drugs that have no effect on performance. They are in other sports, so why not cubing.



So in your opinion, smokers should not be allowed to compete. Perhaps we should also ban multivitamins and aspirin because they can improve performance.


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## vgbjason (Nov 12, 2009)

If marijuana was legal, you would only be limited to smoking it outdoors, right? someone could still eat a couple "special brownies" right before a solve


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## qqwref (Nov 12, 2009)

vgbjason said:


> If marijuana was legal, you would only be limited to smoking it outdoors, right? someone could still eat a couple "special brownies" right before a solve



Of course. The only reason it has to be done outside is the smoke itself. Similarly, if you can find a way to get nicotine into your system that doesn't involve smoke, feel free to do it inside...


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## DavidWoner (Nov 12, 2009)

I found this hilarious. Mildly on-topic.


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## Rune (Nov 12, 2009)

qqwref said:


> vgbjason said:
> 
> 
> > If marijuana was legal, you would only be limited to smoking it outdoors, right? someone could still eat a couple "special brownies" right before a solve
> ...




"Dipping tobacco, also known as moist snuff or spit tobacco, is a form of smokeless tobacco. It is commonly referred to as dip. The act of using it is called dipping. Dip is colloquially called "chew"; because of this, it is commonly confused with chewing tobacco. It is a version of the Swedish "snus" that was brought to America by Swedish immigrants in the 19th century."


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## masterofthebass (Nov 12, 2009)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > ZB_FTW!!! said:
> ...



There's a reason why only the Australian CRICKET team banns coffee. No other professional sport bans the use of over the counter energy drinks and coffee. They do have restrictions of various other drugs, such as Amphetamines, anabolic steroids, cocaine, and other things that effect a person in a great way. Some sports ban marijuana, and some sports don't really care (basketball/football off the top of my head. probably a lot more).


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## Swordsman Kirby (Nov 12, 2009)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> DavidWoner said:
> 
> 
> > ZB_FTW!!! said:
> ...



Good job shooting down your own argument.


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## brunson (Nov 12, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> guitardude7241 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, ethan, bill clinton smoked weed too. He was grand.
> ...



it's not sarcasm.[/quote]

Anyone that's studies economics can tell you that any minor change to the economy (minor meaning short of dumping half a trillion dollars on lending institutions to keep the world economy afloat) made by an administration will not yield results for at least four or five years. Clinton could only possibly have had an effect on growth that was seen in the last few years of his presidency, any thing during the first half would have to be attributed to the policies of Reagan and Bush the First. "Oversaw" is correct, he largely oversaw the effects of the Republican administration that preceded him.

Conversely, the aggressive lending practices pressed upon Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac by the Clinton cabinet (practically mandating that anyone with a pulse should be eligible for a mortgage) were the core of the financial collapse that we're still in the midst of.

Clinton was no savior, except to some hikers in North Korea.


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## Edward (Nov 12, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> if you smoke marijuana you will become like this:



So ill be amazingly smart with reasoning and deduction skills. Gimme some marijuana noaw.


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## daniel0731ex (Nov 12, 2009)

Edward said:


> daniel0731ex said:
> 
> 
> > if you smoke marijuana you will become like this:
> ...



but you'll get killed.


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## fanwuq (Nov 12, 2009)

brunson said:


> vault312 said:
> 
> 
> > guitardude7241 said:
> ...



+1.
Clinton was a decent president, but you can't thank he for the economy.


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## vgbjason (Nov 13, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > daniel0731ex said:
> ...



Come on, you're going to die anyway. People accept skydiving and mountain climbing but not a little cannabis? :fp


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## Edward (Nov 13, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > daniel0731ex said:
> ...



NOOO!!! SPOILERS!!!!!!

I haven't finished the series yet


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## qqwref (Nov 13, 2009)

vgbjason said:


> daniel0731ex said:
> 
> 
> > but you'll get killed.
> ...



http://www.explosm.net/comics/913/


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## Tyson (Nov 13, 2009)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> ZB_FTW!!! said:
> 
> 
> > DavidWoner said:
> ...



I'm going to preface with by saying that this is a thought experiment and not my position...

But let's say the WCA *did* in fact ban the use of drugs, steroids, caffeine and other stuff... how would the WCA test for this stuff?

It would be impossible. Chess has been in disarray because of some people's desires to get it in the olympics, and hence the drug testing.


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## beingforitself (Nov 16, 2009)

Dene said:


> ONLY IDIOTS SMOKE WEED.



Abbreviated list of idiots according to Dene's worldview:

Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman, Simon and Garfunkel, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Johnny Cash, Steven King, Pablo Picasso, Michael Bloomberg, Barack Obama.


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## waffle=ijm (Nov 16, 2009)

NO *bangs head on wall*
THIS THREAD WAS SUPPOSE TO BE DEAD!


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## Escher (Nov 16, 2009)

Seeing as it's been resurrected;

I tried solving while high the other night...
For bigcubes it's fail, for 2x2 is fail (mostly because going fast actually requires effort), for 3x3 it made me much more consistent (around 11-13) when I could be bothered to turn fast.
It makes teamsolves FAR more amusing though


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## MalusDB (Jun 25, 2012)

Escher said:


> I tried solving while high the other night...for 3x3 it made me much more consistent (around 11-13) when I could be bothered to turn fast.



Ressurection 2.0 I guess  I was a bit worried about starting a thread about this, but after using the search function I was amazed there were quite a few threads about it. I don't smoke often at all, but did have about 4g over the last month or so once exams ended for a nice chill and night cap every other night  I also found that solving 3x3 was alot easier to be consistent timewise, but only when my determination to solve was also consistent, which it most definitely wasn't. Took me an hour to do avg of 12, when normally takes more like half that. Scrambling was a chore.

In terms of it being bad for you, of course it is. But so is burnt toast. It can be used to have an extremely good time, and I've had some of the best moments of my life while under its influence. However I have seen friends go through phases of overindulgence and it makes them less "good" as a person (for want of a better, more fully encapsulating term). Nothing is good in excess, but some things when treated with due respect can be rendered into very enjoyable and otherwise virtually harmless things. I would say there is probably more damage to my self from cubing than smoking weed ( I used a very stiff cube for quite a while and RSI or whatever it is was an issue. I've never had even remotely noticeable after efects of smoking mary jane).

I'd say legalise it but the fact is it doesn't really matter that much because nobody really cares if you are just using it in small amounts, at least where I live. My parents know I've smoked it and all my dad said was "well I've never heard of anybody getting their head kicked in by someone who was hi. Maybe hugged to death..". It's definitely less socially destructive than alcohol or cigarettes. But the govmnt makes so much from these "acceptable" drugs that they can't afford (literally) to turn their backs on it.


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## insane569 (Jun 28, 2012)

Me smoke? Hell no. I got other things like cubing minecraft or girls. But for a simple relax why not? So long as its not everyother day. I doubt trying anything 1 time(except heroin, steroids et cetera) will have a long term effect on you. Unless you go all out 1 day. Then your a dipshit and die.


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## applemobile (Jun 28, 2012)

I have a fair personal history with substances, and have been around to view the affects they have on people over time. Anyone that says marijuana is perfectly safe, has not seen the long term affects. Yes many people who use it very sparsely show no signs, and yes it is fine in small doses. But lets face it, not every one stays this way, once a week, turns into once every few days, turns into every day, Soon you cannot sleep without its aid, paranoia, loss of friends, and the downward spiral into depression. I am not an advocate for anything, infact i dislike the whole 'alcohol is fine' culture. Certain clean narcotics are much safer than all of the above, it has been medically proven time and time again. The main issue is miss education.


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