# New Homepage Released



## pjk (Nov 10, 2015)

Hey guys,
After discussion with the mod team and getting some feedback from members, I've decided to replace the old homepage with a new one. This has been in the making for awhile, and there are many reasons for the change (see feedback link above). Overall, this new change will allow us to do a lot more with the site, and I'm excited to see what will come of it. The older homepage was very limited, wasn't responsive, and was out of date. 

In addition to this homepage change, I'll be posting some updates regarding a few changes to the forums soon, which will mainly be some restructuring and some added features.

I want to also point out the "What's New?" link in the navbar at the top. Many people use it, but many aren't aware of it. It allows you to see all the news posts since your last visit and posts that you haven't read yet. It is super powerful, and we encourage everyone to use it when browsing the forum (note you have to be signed in to use it).

Please provide any feedback you have in regards to the new homepage, or any changes you want to see regarding the forum itself.

Thanks for making the community what it is today.


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## LostGent (Nov 10, 2015)

Clicked on to the site for the first time this morning and was sure I'd landed somewhere else. It looks great!


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## SenorJuan (Nov 10, 2015)

It seems over-complicated, people using "slightly out-of-date" technology, like myself, will find it a bind. All the 'activity' on it has seriously slowed things up, I get popups about unresponsive scripts, I get lines of HTML text appearing on the screen. And it won't work at all if scripting is turned off (largely black front-page).
As you no doubt will ask, I have Mozilla Firefox 3.6.28 web browser, on a win XP laptop.
I'm sure it would look pretty when viewed on the latest equipment, it's just that it doesn't seem to be coded in a way that caters for the slower/older/legacy hardware/software. 

I'll tinker with my browser settings, see if I can persuade it to stop animations etc for this site only.

Edit: I see the old page is still running. I guess I'll set up a new shortcut to that, until the day comes when you turn it off.


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## Mollerz (Nov 10, 2015)

SenorJuan said:


> It seems over-complicated, people using "slightly out-of-date" technology, like myself, will find it a bind. All the 'activity' on it has seriously slowed things up, I get popups about unresponsive scripts, I get lines of HTML text appearing on the screen. And it won't work at all if scripting is turned off (largely black front-page).
> As you no doubt will ask, I have Mozilla Firefox 3.6.28 web browser, on a win XP laptop.
> I'm sure it would look pretty when viewed on the latest equipment, it's just that it doesn't seem to be coded in a way that caters for the slower/older/legacy hardware/software.
> 
> ...



When you say slightly out-of-date, I think you are making a huge understatement. Windows XP has been out for 14 years, something that old could be considered ancient in the tech world. You are also running Firefox 3.6.28, the latest release of Firefox is 42.0! You are definitely in the minority and are running historic software. This is like going into a car parts shop and asking for a tyre for your Ford Model T and seeming confused when they don't have any available to you. You are definitely in the minority and I highly recommend upgrading.

Personally I really liked the old homepage, as it allows me to see what threads are active amongst the community. I agree that the homepage definitely needed updating, it was getting a bit archaic and the new site looks very smooth. 

If I had to recommend something it would be that I would ask for a page identical in functionality to the old homepage, but with the new style, and perhaps removal of omitted forum subsections and to nest it under something like Forums -> Recent Posts. Going to Forums -> Get New Posts hides posts that I have read but are still recent which I personally find annoying.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 10, 2015)

James: I realised I would come in for some stick. FF 3.6.28 is in fact only 3 yrs old, the fact they are on 42 now is because they release bug-fixes and minor updates every 3 minutes. I suspect the XP OS isn't the real problem. I haven't actually tried a more recent version of FF, tbh, I did some reading up beforehand, and the 3.6.28 (or another similar version) were suggested as being more likely to work correctly with the rest of my gear.
I think a lot of PC users take the approach of "If it isn't broken, don't fix it", they don't want to upgrade any software in case things go pear-shaped, it doesn't work properly afterwards, all the setting are different and you have to mess about getting it how you like it for an hour etc etc.
I'm no web design / HTML guru, but I think that making your code compatible with as wide a range of users/equipment as possible would be one of the design requirements. So you would want it to work on smartphones, tablets, laptops, desktops, 1024 pixel-wide screens, hi-res widescreen displays, MS Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome etc, Apple devices, the latest gear, and older stuff. Which is no doubt a tough job, and would need a fair bit of testing to winkle out the bugs. 
I was merely offering my opinion and (limited) technical info in case it was useful to the web designer.
Anyway, for now, this page is my new shortcut:
https://www.speedsolving.com/old/index.php

I'm now off to buy some more coal for my PC's boiler.


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## Mollerz (Nov 10, 2015)

Actually a majority of PC Users go with the approach of "If it's outdated, I need to upgrade". Generally, if you were to buy an average computer, within 2 years it would be outdated. If you are even just one revision out of date using software, it is outdated. 3 years old for a version of FF is still archaic, computers improve and move on fast. Yes there is a chance it doesn't work with your software, that is their way of telling you your setup is *absolutely, unequivocally, 100% outdated*. The reasons they update are not just bug fixes, but constant improvements to the software, improvements in the code, etc. And the WORST thing about keeping an outdated version is because of vulnerabilities! The new software has better security that the older versions do not have, you are putting yourself at risk for using older software. If you upgraded Firefox every single update, the amount of settings changes would be minuscule, they do not take an hour to update, and if a setting changes, it's for a reason, deal with it. Most pieces of software require you to use the latest version, or it just won't let you get past the entry screen. Being able to use previous versions is generally a luxury.

As you said, there are many different platforms that you need these websites to run on already. I guarantee that by the time you've got all of it working for current versions of software and scaling for every possible device, you do not want to go back and modify it even further for people who are using software that is old, outdated, has far fewer optimisations, vulnerabilities etc. I'm sure you are aware, Microsoft recently released Windows 10 and allowed everyone to get a free upgrade. One of the reasons for this is because they want to stop supporting older operating systems. By giving it out for free they will get a majority of the Windows userbase onto Windows 10. When they finally stop supporting older pieces of software like XP, Vista and 7, people will of course still use it, but they are in the tiniest minority and they _know_ what they are getting themselves into.

I understand you were offering your opinion and technical specs to help, but it's never going to be fixed for the software and hardware you are using, it's far too outdated. "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" isn't a good mantra to follow in the PC world, and you apparently need to learn this, sorry.


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## qqwref (Nov 10, 2015)

Mollerz, take it to PMs or something. Nobody cares about your rude and lengthy rants about outdated software. And Windows 10 sucks - personally, I'll switch to Linux permanently when 7 becomes unusable.


pjk: To be honest, I absolutely hate the new frontpage. Instead of feeling like a community, it feels like a (low-quality) journalistic outlet - the kind of place where paid writers produce clickbait articles, and other people click on them, read them, and discuss them in the comments. That is, the kind of place where the official content is far more valuable than users' contributions, and where articles' click counts literally pay the staff. I, and probably many others, am here for the forum - the place where regular users post information, videos, questions, etc. and then discuss it over the course of an entire topic. I'm not here for short blurbs about WRs, and I certainly never came here daily because of the interviews or podcasts. Perhaps you are planning to hire people to write articles about cubing, and make that the focus, but that would then be a very different site, and I don't really want to be part of the community on a site like that.

I do appreciate that you've put together some introductory pages for new users and put the interviews, cubecasts, etc. into a menu. We certainly do have good resources for non-cubers and new users, that should be put in a more obvious and accessible place on the site. I do like the new top menu (except for the gigantic images and the quality of the animation code). And yes, the main page could use a bit of modernization. But, please, NOT like this.


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## Goosly (Nov 10, 2015)

qqwref said:


> Mollerz, take it to PMs or something. Nobody cares about your rude and lengthy rants about outdated software. And Windows 10 sucks - personally, I'll switch to Linux permanently when 7 becomes unusable.



I fail to see where Mollerz is rude. I also fail to see why Windows 7 sucks. Have fun on Linux!


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## Mollerz (Nov 10, 2015)

qqwref said:


> Mollerz, take it to PMs or something. Nobody cares about your rude and lengthy rants about outdated software. And Windows 10 sucks - personally, I'll switch to Linux permanently when 7 becomes unusable.



My responses aren't intended to be rude, they are intended to be informational. If you found them rude and they weren't even directed to you then I suggest you avoid the internet, since you are clearly easily offended.

My content is on-topic and is a response to someone's technical queries related to the first post. If you find it too lengthy then you don't have to read it, nobody is forcing you to.

As for your personal opinion on software, that is your opinion and that is off-topic, we don't need to know that you don't like Windows 10, or that you will switch to Linux. That's personal preference.

As for the rest of your post, I don't see how you can dislike it so much. The layout of the home page seems pretty much like a standard Web 2.0 page which I don't think is a bad thing. Someone who is newer to the internet (And bear in mind the common cuber is quite young) would find this page much more appealing than a webpage from 2007. The work on the website is good and takes speedsolving in a good direction. If you want to go straight to the forum that is fine, it's still there. You never have to touch the homepage if you don't want to, just amend your bookmark.


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## Chree (Nov 10, 2015)

I'm with qqwerf on this one. I'm here for the forums. One of my simple pleasures is how easy it was to type "www.speedsolving.com" and be greeted with all the latest random posts from people in the community. The front page is just highlights, and feels like a barrier I have to click through to get to the conversation I'm adore. Personally, I'll probably never look at the new homepage again, and https://www.speedsolving.com/old/index.php is not my default homepage for all my web browsers (work and home).

Full disclosure: I'm the type of person that hates change, in general. So hopefully someone with less anxiety about this sort of thing can weigh in.


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## Ollie (Nov 10, 2015)

Yeah, not liking the new style:

1. The same five threads seem to appear all over the place. This includes the Recent, Popular and Random thread containers on the page.
2. Some strange choices for Popular threads are appearing on the page. For example, I have Stefan Pochmann's interview from 2008 appearing in my Popular Posts.

Hopefully this will iron itself when the new layout has been going for a few weeks. The new front page is probably a bit more appealing to new visitors, but for current members it just adds an unnecessary step in order to get to the real forums and see what the latest news is.

/r/Cubers


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## biscuit (Nov 10, 2015)

I feel like if something like this had been implemented at/near the begging, this would not be an issue. My issue is it feels like you're trying to change the scope of the website. It has become 90% forum, and 10% wiki. Updating the home page so dramatically just feels like you want it used differently. I love the way it looks, and provides functionality, I think it's to abrupt though.

The main complaint seems to be that there is no quick access to newly updated threads, which is something I immediately missed as well. My solution, is to add a panel that holds links to all the newly update threads, similar to a mini old home page. How I would do this, is to shift the content to the left, you might be able to just set the margin-left to half of what is or what ever, and fill some of the blank space on the right with a div that extends from the header to the bottom of the "Have a news story?" panel (I have some other suggestions to make this work), making sure there is still a small buffer between the new div and the edge of the browser, that holds links to all the newly updated threads.

Regarding the Header, I have a few suggestions that I think would make it look better how it is, and also allow for the previously mentioned suggestions. First, there should not be any room between the header and the top of the page. That just looks bad. I personally wouldn't put any between the header and the content, but I can see why you would like that. If you wanted to use my idea of adding the newly updated threads panel as proposed it would be needed, unless you like the idea of having the panel starting at the top of the content instead. I personally think that the header should extend across the entire page, allowing for some of the stuff under the "other" tab to be on the menu bar, as well as just looking better in my opinion. This would definitely be required if you wanted to implement the newly added threads idea as proposed.

Here is a mock up of what I'm thinking.



The other thing I would do, which would be really, really quick, would be to point the Forums link in the header to the forum home page


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## tx789 (Nov 10, 2015)

I like the old homepage to see what has most recently been posted in. I have used the What's New a bit. The homepage now shows no sign of it being a forum, if you ignore the navigation bar. The content on the new homepage favours the new features and co tent you've added. I'm sure you'll being making some small changes here and there. Also I never found the old homepage archaic. I've got so used to the old one, over the last five years.


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## Dene (Nov 10, 2015)

Woot, changed my bookmark to the new homepage <3


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## cubernya (Nov 10, 2015)

qqwref said:


> pjk: To be honest, I absolutely hate the new frontpage. Instead of feeling like a community, it feels like a (low-quality) journalistic outlet
> 
> I do appreciate that you've put together some introductory pages for new users and put the interviews, cubecasts, etc. into a menu. We certainly do have good resources for non-cubers and new users, that should be put in a more obvious and accessible place on the site. I do like the new top menu (except for the gigantic images and the quality of the animation code). And yes, the main page could use a bit of modernization. But, please, NOT like this.



Agreed. If nothing else, at least have an option to choose between the old and new front page (I presume that's possible).


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## tseitsei (Nov 10, 2015)

Dont like it. It was much better when you saw new posts immediately when you entered the site. 
Now I just see some news I already knew in weird box layout...

Well doesnt really matter that much, because soon all my devices will learn to automatically propose speedsolving.com/old as I just type sp...

But yeah. Old one was/is so much better...


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## Praetorian (Nov 10, 2015)

I personally prefer the old one as it was much more convenient, I'm not a fan of things becoming over-complicated when unnecessary


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## qqwref (Nov 10, 2015)

Goosly said:


> I fail to see where Mollerz is rude. I also fail to see why Windows 7 sucks. Have fun on Linux!


Just for clarification, I was saying that 10 sucks; 7 is fine.



Spoiler






Mollerz said:


> My responses aren't intended to be rude, they are intended to be informational.


You write in a very passive-agressive manner and seem to be assuming bad faith on the part of SenorJuan. It honestly comes across as "I can't believe how stupid you are, you have no right to even be on the internet with that setup". It reminds me of Stefan's posts (in the last few years). If you really just wanted to be informational, and you wrote like that, well, I'd recommend taking a class on communication.



Mollerz said:


> My content is on-topic and is a response to someone's technical queries related to the first post. If you find it too lengthy then you don't have to read it, nobody is forcing you to.


I don't consider it on-topic because lengthy rants about OS and software updates have nothing to do with the homepage. When I posted your discussion with SenorJuan was literally ~80% of the text in the thread, so I'm sure you can understand why I'd rather see those thousands of characters dumped somewhere that isn't so important to the cubing community.





Mollerz said:


> The layout of the home page seems pretty much like a standard Web 2.0 page which I don't think is a bad thing.


I do think it's a bad thing, actually. I'm one of those people who think simpler and cleaner layouts are better. There is a lot of space wasted in white space, borders/margins/padding, unnecessary "0 Comments" links (remember, this is a forum, not a new media company ), big "Read More >>" buttons, and of course images. Even the menus contain large images, which makes them take up a solid third of the screen when deployed.

Compare to http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/, where instead of having a semi-random 2D assortment of colorful blocks, they have their news posts in the middle and everything else in a fixed place. They have images when necessary, but don't force them in on every post, and since their reason for existing isn't to maximize their page views, they have put all of the text out in the open without a "Read More" button. Of course, since that's a site with its own game the updates (on tournaments, song releases, etc.) are a lot more meaningful, but I'm not suggesting we copy that any more than I'm suggesting we never change the old look of speedsolving.

My other big issue with the layout is that the entire homepage seems to be about WRs, interviews, and media article links, repeated over and over (seriously, I see Feliks's 5x5x5 WR five times and that's without even going into the menus) in various different sorting styles and groupings. The discussion is what makes this site worth going to, and the fact that it is barely even ON the front page bothers me. Have a place for announcements and interviews, by all means, but the newly updated or popular forum topics is what I really want to see.



Mollerz said:


> If you want to go straight to the forum that is fine, it's still there. You never have to touch the homepage if you don't want to, just amend your bookmark.


It's still there now, if you know where to look. But it's, as you've said, "archaic". Will it still be there in a year, or a few? Or will the forum end up collecting dust in an obscure corner of the site, only used by the old farts who don't want to upgrade to the new way of doing things?


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## molarmanful (Nov 11, 2015)

Hey y'all, just use Mac 

Oh yeah, I guess I could pitch in a WIP mockup that I have yet to work on (overloaded with school and other coding stuff). It's super-makeshift, but it's what I sort of have in mind.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, the current Speedsolving forums could be all the better with just a few UI changes...


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## Chree (Nov 11, 2015)

I also just discovered that, on mobile, the button for the Menu is almost invisible. Might wanna make it more visible/brighter/white.

I'm just gonna guess you're gonna keep that front page up. Seems to have a lot of time invested in it. Can you at least make a link to the old layout much more accessible? An immediately available button somewhat near the top?


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## pjk (Nov 11, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. Please keep the feedback coming. Suggested changes will happen overtime, but I wanted to release something so I could get more feedback. 



qqwref said:


> pjk: To be honest, I absolutely hate the new frontpage. Instead of feeling like a community, it feels like a (low-quality) journalistic outlet - the kind of place where paid writers produce clickbait articles, and other people click on them, read them, and discuss them in the comments. That is, the kind of place where the official content is far more valuable than users' contributions, and where articles' click counts literally pay the staff. I, and probably many others, am here for the forum - the place where regular users post information, videos, questions, etc. and then discuss it over the course of an entire topic. I'm not here for short blurbs about WRs, and I certainly never came here daily because of the interviews or podcasts. Perhaps you are planning to hire people to write articles about cubing, and make that the focus, but that would then be a very different site, and I don't really want to be part of the community on a site like that.


Think of it as an addition to the site, not at all replacing the forum. The old homepage offered little in terms of welcoming people to the site, introducing people to what it's about, and provided little in terms of content for the forum. The recent threads module that everyone mentions only listed the last few threads (from select forums), so it was hardly a good way to see what's going on. What's New and Today's Posts are far better, and we encourage people to use those. If those aren't sufficient, I will create whatever is needed to be sufficient, just give me feedback on why those don't work.

One of the things I had in mind going into this is that our community is relatively small, but it super super interesting. Pretty much everyone I've ever met is intrigued at least slightly by cubing. However, if you tell someone to go to speedsolving.com, they show up and are confused. The old homepage wasn't welcoming, nor exciting, and really provided little value when you think about it. The old homepage was out of date, and not scalable. While it did have the recent threads module, that was it, really. And that is simple to replace as there are already solutions for that. 

While speedsolving is a community, there is so much more that can be done with the site than just a forum. Obviously you can use the forum as you did before and it will continually be improved, but I really think the community needs an outlet for news, stories, photos, videos, etc like most other communities have. The idea of this homepage isn't to make the forum go to dust, but actually grow it. Many people show up to the old homepage and say "what's this site about, I'm not sure". What is posted on the forum is only a fraction of the puzzle related stuff out there, and many people would prefer to look at something like the homepage rather than read a forum (hence why you see sports sites similar to this). As I said, the old homepage offered nothing really other than a recent threads module, which wasn’t welcoming, and wasn’t versatile at all which restricted future development. Additionally, vB (the software which runs the forum) has been going downhill for years, and the past homepage relied on it. Future plans would be to upgrade to a more modern software, but it has to be taken 1 step at a time.

In terms of content: right now it's just records/videos/interviews because that is all that was on the old homepage (which was horribly arranged and setup btw). The plan for the new piece of the site would be to provide more stories, articles, photos, etc. But it will take time and it will be a community project. It provides an outlet for cubing media, which really doesn't currently exist if you think about it, and I think it's one reason why cubing hasn't got more exposure. With an outlet done correctly, it could really change the community and lead to more competitors, more ideas, more sponsorship, etc. People wonder why cubing isn't getting as much sponsorship as other "sports", and I think part of it has to do with the lack of exposure to our community. At the end of the day the goal is to create a site where people can connect, learn, and share this hobby that we all enjoy.



Chree said:


> I'm with qqwerf on this one. I'm here for the forums. One of my simple pleasures is how easy it was to type "www.speedsolving.com" and be greeted with all the latest random posts from people in the community. The front page is just highlights, and feels like a barrier I have to click through to get to the conversation I'm adore. Personally, I'll probably never look at the new homepage again, and https://www.speedsolving.com/old/index.php is not my default homepage for all my web browsers (work and home).
> 
> Full disclosure: I'm the type of person that hates change, in general. So hopefully someone with less anxiety about this sort of thing can weigh in.


Right now the current (new) homepage isn't super useful for active forum members, but that will hopefully change. I want to make it a community project where anyone can contribute content, and if it is worthwhile and good as decided by the moderators, it will get posted.

As for change: you're not alone, it's human nature. Every time something big changes, people complain because they aren't used to it. Note that the goal with the new homepage is to better the community overall and for the future.



Ollie said:


> Yeah, not liking the new style:
> 
> 1. The same five threads seem to appear all over the place. This includes the Recent, Popular and Random thread containers on the page.
> 2. Some strange choices for Popular threads are appearing on the page. For example, I have Stefan Pochmann's interview from 2008 appearing in my Popular Posts.
> ...


1. Yes, those will get fixed as time passes, people use the site, and more posts are added. Right now those 5 are showing since it hasn't been used much yet.
2. Same thing as above. Right now many people are probably seeing the Pochmann interview and therefore it is "popular", but that will change over time.

As mentioned in another comment above, hopefully over time more people will contribute content and it will be interesting to read for both new members, and current forum members. The older homepage really offered nothing for current forum members either.



biscuit said:


> I feel like if something like this had been implemented at/near the begging, this would not be an issue. My issue is it feels like you're trying to change the scope of the website. It has become 90% forum, and 10% wiki. Updating the home page so dramatically just feels like you want it used differently. I love the way it looks, and provides functionality, I think it's to abrupt though.


Better late than never, right? Technology changes, how we share changes, and it's important to adapt. Note that the wiki and forum will remain mostly the same. The new homepage simply allows for an outlet of media that is produced through cubing, and makes it exciting to new people. The purpose of a forum is to discuss things, the purpose of the new homepage is to share things. I think having both is important. For example, MacRumors has done very well with it.



biscuit said:


> The main complaint seems to be that there is no quick access to newly updated threads, which is something I immediately missed as well. My solution, is to add a panel that holds links to all the newly update threads, similar to a mini old home page...[more]


Good tips and suggestions on the layout. Much appreciated. I can implement a recent threads piece on the homepage, but I'm unsure what the purpose of this is. It isn't useful for seeing all the latest posts, only the ones within the last hour (depending on the activity at the time). I want to encourage people to use better tools like the Todays Posts and the Whats New. They are made for that purpose.



biscuit said:


> The other thing I would do, which would be really, really quick, would be to point the Forums link in the header to the forum home page


If you click on the forums link, it already goes to the forum home. What do you mean exactly?



tx789 said:


> I like the old homepage to see what has most recently been posted in. I have used the What's New a bit. The homepage now shows no sign of it being a forum, if you ignore the navigation bar. The content on the new homepage favours the new features and co tent you've added. I'm sure you'll being making some small changes here and there. Also I never found the old homepage archaic. I've got so used to the old one, over the last five years.


For new users, if they browse the new homepage it will be clear there is a big community behind it. Time will tell I suppose.



tseitsei said:


> Dont like it. It was much better when you saw new posts immediately when you entered the site.
> Now I just see some news I already knew in weird box layout...


You saw new posts, but only the latest 20, neglecting certain forums. It was not at all a good way to see the latest posts on the forum. Many people seem to have issues with this, but it seems that most of those people don't use Today's Post or What's New, which are far better solutions.



qqwref said:


> I do think it's a bad thing, actually. I'm one of those people who think simpler and cleaner layouts are better. There is a lot of space wasted in white space, borders/margins/padding, unnecessary "0 Comments" links (remember, this is a forum, not a new media company ), big "Read More >>" buttons, and of course images. Even the menus contain large images, which makes them take up a solid third of the screen when deployed.


Simpler and cleaner layouts are often better, I agree. But sometimes they aren't. We should try both and see. I am a big fan of the PhysicsForums site, and their Insight page for articles. However, cubing is quite different than just informational discussion. People are now becoming more known, people inspire others, and it's more like a sport than anything. Look at how finals are organized at competitions. Something with more visuals I think is more exciting for cubing (hence the new homepage).



qqwref said:


> Compare to http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/, where instead of having a semi-random 2D assortment of colorful blocks, they have their news posts in the middle and everything else in a fixed place. They have images when necessary, but don't force them in on every post, and since their reason for existing isn't to maximize their page views, they have put all of the text out in the open without a "Read More" button. Of course, since that's a site with its own game the updates (on tournaments, song releases, etc.) are a lot more meaningful, but I'm not suggesting we copy that any more than I'm suggesting we never change the old look of speedsolving.


Points taken. Note that saying the goal is to maximize page views makes it sound like I'm trying to make money regardless of what the community thinks. That isn't at all the case, and in fact, the site has made little profit over the course of 10 years. The goal is to bring more exposure to the community and allow us to more easily share our community with the world, but it is not financially driven at all. 



qqwref said:


> My other big issue with the layout is that the entire homepage seems to be about WRs, interviews, and media article links, repeated over and over (seriously, I see Feliks's 5x5x5 WR five times and that's without even going into the menus) in various different sorting styles and groupings. The discussion is what makes this site worth going to, and the fact that it is barely even ON the front page bothers me. Have a place for announcements and interviews, by all means, but the newly updated or popular forum topics is what I really want to see.


As I quoted someone above, this is because it was just released. Long term is to have anyone in the community contribute articles, stories, ideas, thoughts for the community. The reason why right now you only see the above is because I can only do so much alone. Just like with the forum and the wiki, I've setup a platform which allows people to share.



qqwref said:


> It's still there now, if you know where to look. But it's, as you've said, "archaic". Will it still be there in a year, or a few? Or will the forum end up collecting dust in an obscure corner of the site, only used by the old farts who don't want to upgrade to the new way of doing things?


If the new homepage makes the forum shrink, I will change it. In fact, the end result of having an outlet for media would be to make the forum grow and bring more exposure to it. I'll do everything in my power and listen to everyone in the community to help the forum be what the community wants.

Over the last few years, the forum hasn't grown much at all, and we can only speculate as to why. Part of this is due to the culture of the forum, or people changing hobbies, etc. But also part of this is due to the lack exposure that the site gives newcomers. Back in the day everyone was welcome. Today people are often afraid to post. It is something that needs to be worked on.



molarmanful said:


> Oh yeah, I guess I could pitch in a WIP mockup that I have yet to work on (overloaded with school and other coding stuff). It's super-makeshift, but it's what I sort of have in mind.


That is a nice idea. If you're interested in creating something like this, please let me know and I'd be glad to work with you on it.

I would like to make a final note in that while I do think this will help serve the community better in the long run, if it doesn't work it can always be changed or undone. You often never know until you try.


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## Ranzha (Nov 11, 2015)

I, for one, welcome our new homepage overlords.

But seriously, I like the addition of the new homepage and would like to see it be consistently updated by more people than just pjk and mods. I'll be updating the Podcasts section with all CubeCast material, but that area will continually change as CubeCast regroups for 2016 (because we've really needed it).


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## biscuit (Nov 11, 2015)

pjk said:


> If you click on the forums link, it already goes to the forum home. What do you mean exactly?



I meant what is now the old/index.php. I feel this is a much better page if you just want to see what is being discussed. I realize that not all threads get put on this page, but I really like how it works. Maybe that's just me how ever.

EDIT: Also, if not all threads being visible on the front page panel would be an issue, you could integrate all threads, just show a limited amount, and add a see more that takes you to the "what's new" or "todays posts" page.


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## Chree (Nov 11, 2015)

pjk said:


> As for change: you're not alone, it's human nature. Every time something big changes, people complain because they aren't used to it. Note that the goal with the new homepage is to better the community overall and for the future.



I read this. And the rest of your post. I am beginning to believe.


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## Praetorian (Nov 11, 2015)

Chree said:


> I read this. And the rest of your post. I am beginning to believe.



I can't say your name without it sounding like 'tree'...


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## Joel2274 (Nov 11, 2015)

I really like the new homepage, although when I went into it this morning, I couldn't find out how to get back here and I though my account was lost forever D:


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## Chree (Nov 11, 2015)

Praetorian said:


> I can't say your name without it sounding like 'tree'...



Heh... since my real first name is Chris, think of it more like "kree".


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## IRNjuggle28 (Nov 12, 2015)

Our community is small but interesting, as you said, and I find myself being quite content with it staying that way. Many of the changes you've implemented are aimed at increasing the number of people this forum caters to, and specifically making it appeal to people who would rather read/learn about cubing in a way more passive than posting. The changes make the forum more palatable to the people who know less and contribute less, as well as making it bigger. Neither sounds good to me. Perhaps it's a bit elitist of me, but I like that this forum is a relatively small number of cubers, and that the forum is as elite as it is. Trying to make the forum more appealing in this way that you have, and trying to make it a tool that grows the number of people who become interested in cubing, increases the size and decreases the quality of the forum. I've been on other forums where nobody knows what they're talking about, as well as forums that are so big that I don't recognize anyone by username and where posts disappear from the first page of a subforum after 10 minutes because the threads are coming so quickly and furiously. I sure hope this one doesn't turn into that. 

I'm happy to see where the different style takes the forum and give it a fair chance before writing it off, and I actually like the front page fine! Just wanted to point out that your posts treat making the community much larger as well as making it somewhere that non-cubers/new cubers can go for news and guidance as objectively good things. I'm not convinced that they are. This is one of the smallest and most consistently skilled forums I've run into and I sincerely hope it continues to be both of those things.


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 12, 2015)

I don't care all that much about the new design but please add a link to the forum at the very top of the page. It took me several minutes of clicking on random articles to find one that was a forum thread.


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## muchacho (Nov 12, 2015)

It's in the menu, the link in "Forums" goes to https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/forum.php


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## ZeshaaK (Nov 12, 2015)

Loving the new homepage! I think it is great for newcomers and will hopefully encourage more people to join the community.

Personally I am only here for the recent random posts. As long as that page exists then I am happy!

Good Job! :tu:tu :tu


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## EvilGnome6 (Nov 12, 2015)

muchacho said:


> It's in the menu, the link in "Forums" goes to https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/forum.php


Sorry. I should have specified that I was using a mobile browser. I just looked again and I finally spotted a barely visible hamburger on top of the cube. Once you click on the hamburger, you get the menu with a forum link. Ugh. I hate having to dig through menus to get to the primary function of a site.


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## pjk (Nov 13, 2015)

Please keep providing feedback and sharing ideas, it is all helpful. The more the better. 



IRNjuggle28 said:


> Our community is small but interesting, as you said, and I find myself being quite content with it staying that way. Many of the changes you've implemented are aimed at increasing the number of people this forum caters to, and specifically making it appeal to people who would rather read/learn about cubing in a way more passive than posting. The changes make the forum more palatable to the people who know less and contribute less, as well as making it bigger. Neither sounds good to me. Perhaps it's a bit elitist of me, but I like that this forum is a relatively small number of cubers, and that the forum is as elite as it is. Trying to make the forum more appealing in this way that you have, and trying to make it a tool that grows the number of people who become interested in cubing, increases the size and decreases the quality of the forum. I've been on other forums where nobody knows what they're talking about, as well as forums that are so big that I don't recognize anyone by username and where posts disappear from the first page of a subforum after 10 minutes because the threads are coming so quickly and furiously. I sure hope this one doesn't turn into that.


Cubing, twisty puzzles, and the forum have all changed as they grew. Everyone used to know everyone in the community. As communities grow, there are changes that happen, both good and bad. Bad being that there is more noise, everyone doesn't know everyone, and there is more work required to make it all work. The good being that there are more competitions, more ideas shared, more puzzles made and designed, and more opportunity for the "sport". 9 years ago we had this discussion and were talking about how we didn't think the community will grow more because everything about cubing had already been talked about. Many people were discussing limits and many didn't think sub-10 was possible, or sub-1 min BLD. Today we look back and it's crazy. We talked about how the forum was changing since it went from a Yahoo email list of less than 50 people to a forum with hundreds of members. Many changes are unforeseen, so you often just have to do what makes sense at the time and adapt over time with changes. 

If you look at the forum today, it is much different. Everyone doesn't know everyone, there is more noise and often it's a hassle to deal with, but the outcome has been way more competitions, way more discussion and shared knowledge, the speedsolving wiki, huge improvements in times, a massive puzzle market with more puzzles than we know what to do with, careers for many cubers as well as sponsorships. You could probably debate that these aren't all good things, but I think most people would agree that cubing has moved forward over the years.

In addition to the growth that the community has had over the last 10 years, it's always been just a forum. There has never been an outlet to just conglomerate and share media. Look at all other sports that have a competitive and community aspect to them. They all have sites that share pictures, videos, analysis, etc, and there is a reason they do it. Why not have this for cubing?

Lastly, as I mentioned in a prior reply, why don't we welcome people to the community? It's an awesome hobby and I think we should be proud to share it. I'm not alone in thinking this.

With this said, the decision to make the new homepage as a way to share our hobby was made after talking and seeking feedback from as many people as I could. If it doesn't serve the intended purpose, then by all means we can go back and try something different.



EvilGnome6 said:


> I don't care all that much about the new design but please add a link to the forum at the very top of the page. It took me several minutes of clicking on random articles to find one that was a forum thread.


The issue with mobile I'll fix soon. I notice that the menu is hidden at the moment.



biscuit said:


> I meant what is now the old/index.php. I feel this is a much better page if you just want to see what is being discussed. I realize that not all threads get put on this page, but I really like how it works. Maybe that's just me how ever.
> 
> EDIT: Also, if not all threads being visible on the front page panel would be an issue, you could integrate all threads, just show a limited amount, and add a see more that takes you to the "what's new" or "todays posts" page.


The old homepage will stay live here. Well noted on the suggestions, thanks.


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## SenorJuan (Nov 13, 2015)

I investigated the 'unresponsive script' I mentioned in my earlier post. It's a .js file located at https(colon)//static.xx.fbcdn.net/...etc. This is a Facebook file, so it is presumably out of your control, anyway. While it's ultimately likely to be my browser, Google seems to tell me FB have a record of producing sloppy code.


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## Christopher Mowla (Nov 13, 2015)

I rather like the new layout. I still of course will use the old homepage (because that's what I'm use to), but for newcomers, it is very easy for them to keep up with WRs and special events (I mean that's about 85% of what posts are here are about anyway. It's not like this is a dominate puzzle theory or algorithm discussion site), especially if they don't know about the subforums where they are first announced.

I was at first a little uneasy with it, but when I read PJK's post above, I saw it in a new light and appreciate it a lot more.


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## Ninja Storm (Nov 13, 2015)

Hate it. I have to click twice to get to recent threads, which is one of the main reasons of a forum. 

IMO, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. AFAIK, nobody was complaining about the previous front page, so why change it to something new?

EDIT: Should be important that I changed my bookmark to the old homepage already, but sometimes it bugs out and brings me to the new one anyway.


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## Chree (Nov 13, 2015)

More feedback... just a thought really...

To a new user, the Forum no longer seems to be the primary function of www.speedsolving.com. In the past, it was obvious that this page is meant to be an interactive communications front for the speedcubing community. Now, at first glance, it just appears to be a news aggregation site. The primary function of SS is to bring the community together. And while that goal hasn't reportedly changed, that function seems less obvious.

I see this as both a good and bad thing. Some folks have expressed their frustration by the flood of newbies into the community over the last couple of years, and now that could be mitigated. But the obvious downside if for the newbies themselves. The best place to learn and grow is these forums. So if a newbie doesn't immediately see SS as a means of sharing and learning, they might go just a tad bit longer without ever knowing about such a valuable resource as the forums even exists.

But on another note, I've tried at least visiting the new front page from time to time. And I've enjoyed some of the articles. Especially the Jean Pons throwback. I think I'm going to enjoy seeing more ways that you guys wind up utilizing the new front page.

Edit: Do you think there's room to list The Cubing Show in the podcasts section? Those guys were fun to listen to.


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## stoic (Nov 13, 2015)

I think it looks great. I appreciate all the thought and effort that's gone into it, as well as the detailed explanations given. 
I also enjoyed the Jean Pons throwback, I hadn't seen that before. 

That said, I've already changed my bookmarks and I don't anticipate seeing the front page much. 

A couple of thoughts:
-Once you're in forum-land, the speedsolving.com logo doesn't link to the front page, only back to the forums. 
-I frequent another forum which has a similar style to the one you're going for, with lots of news and content and the forum as a sub-section of the site rather than the main focus. However, most people don't use it that way. So what they do is make a new thread for every new bit of content added, as well as having a "New Content Thread" (stickied) which is updated as well. That draws attention to it nicely, and ensures everyone gets the most out of it.


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## biscuit (Nov 13, 2015)

stoic said:


> Once you're in forum-land, the speedsolving.com logo doesn't link to the front page, only back to the forums.



I think that's a good thing.


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## stoic (Nov 13, 2015)

biscuit said:


> I think that's a good thing.



A speedsolving.com hyperlink that doesn't point to speedsolving.com?


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## Mollerz (Nov 13, 2015)

stoic said:


> I think it looks great. I appreciate all the thought and effort that's gone into it, as well as the detailed explanations given.
> I also enjoyed the Jean Pons throwback, I hadn't seen that before.
> 
> That said, I've already changed my bookmarks and I don't anticipate seeing the front page much.
> ...



I presume the functionality of the top page of the forum will change when the forum is also brought onto newer software.



biscuit said:


> I think that's a good thing.



I still don't understand why people don't like it. It's not going to get removed because you don't like it. This front page is design for newer users, not regulars. If you are a regular who has visited for a while and only browse the forums, then, as said hundreds of times already, you can completely skip past it and bookmark the forums.

Without newer cubers, these forums will inevitably die. Look back at the forum in 2009, how many of those cubers still frequent the forums. I'll tell you now, it's not many of them. If none of us joined since then, the forums would basically be dead. Of course there are some that have been here since the stone ages, and will continue to hang around, but the forum needs to attract new cubers. There are a bunch of people who have joined within the last year or two and already contribute well to the forums.

Of course, a lot of newer cubers would look at the front page, get all their news related to speedcubing, and then never go on the forums. Those same people, prior to this front page, would come onto the forums, look at the WR posts, and then leave. You won't notice a difference anyway.

pjk has worked hard on this site for a long time and now he's getting all this negativity for trying to grow something to bring our community together even more. Please.


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## G2013 (Nov 13, 2015)

I still think that I prefer the old one :/

But I also think that I got too used to it


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## biscuit (Nov 13, 2015)

stoic said:


> A speedsolving.com hyperlink that doesn't point to speedsolving.com?



once you're in the forum, most people want to stay in the forum. I've gotten used to using the logo to get back to the old home page.



Mollerz said:


> I presume the functionality of the top page of the forum will change when the forum is also brought onto newer software.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not saying the new page is bad. I just have a couple of issues with it, which is inevitable in anything new like this, and I supplied my opinion on how to fix these issues. I won't use the new home page, but I see why it is good.

that being said, I keep typeing in "spe" and pressing enter (that's what I'm used to doing to get to the forums) that now takes me to the home page. If my ideas were implemented, I would have no issues with it.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 13, 2015)

Interesting idea to revamp it completely. Personally I'm cool with sticking to the old format because I'm used to it and it does everything I want - simple list of latest topics. I've switched my bookmark to the old home page.
If I was a new user and a new-ish cuber, I think I'd still prefer the old format tbh. It doesn't require any time to get used to and familiarise with. With the new page, I don't know where to start looking.

I appreciate all the work that has gone into it, and I hope the new page can achieve what PJK wants it to achieve.


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## Dene (Nov 14, 2015)

Mollerz said:


> Of course there are some that have been here since the stone ages



Ha!

Ugg, grmph, hoorgaah ruggamuggachunga!


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## AlexMaass (Nov 17, 2015)

lol MMAP is on the front page now

I liked the old section where you could just see all of the new posts, maybe put this section somewhere else on the forums other than the speedsolving.com link.


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## pjk (Nov 19, 2015)

Please keep the feedback coming. 

It appears the feedback is mostly about the homepage being too complex, and not including recent threads. Both of these are important points worth noting. We'll try this homepage for a month or two, and then decide if it is best to revert. I will say, so far, that it does require quite a lot of additional work to keep this homepage up to date, which is definitely a negative. I think a properly built site wouldn't require as much manual work, so this is certainly going into consideration.

Can you guys provide some feedback on these alternative layouts (if you think they are better than the current):
1) Classic: https://www.speedsolving.com/homepage-classic-layout/
2) Alt1: https://www.speedsolving.com/homepage-masonry-layout/
3) Timeline: https://www.speedsolving.com/homepage-timeline-layout/
4) Blog: https://www.speedsolving.com/homepage-blog-layout/

Lastly, I'm looking for a few active members to help with adding homepage content. *If you're interested in contributing to this, please shoot me a PM*. Thanks.


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## ZeshaaK (Nov 19, 2015)

I think all 4 of these are better than the current as they are much more clear. The current one is a bit too cluttered and has alot of repeat material. These new ones dont have these problems. However I personally do not like the masonry layout (the 2nd one).

If I had to rank them from best to worst

Blog
Timeline
Classic
Alt1
Current


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