# Megaminx 2GLL?



## fanwuq (Sep 10, 2008)

I've had my megaminx (cube4you $4 one) for almost a year and finally played with it for the first time today!
First it sucked really badly. Then, after playing for a day, it got nice. I can do (U'R'UR)*6 in 3.8 seconds. Then, I sanded the corners, so I can now do it about 3 seconds. (That's faster than a good 3x3 cube!) I think I have a unique turning style with it. For the "F2L" part, it's nothing special, I just grip the layer and turn slowly (it is slow, clumsy, and inconvenient). But for 2gen, I form a cup with my hand and just hold the megaminx kind of like some sort of video game controller, then I trigger crazily with my thumb and index finger. With this, I realized that a 2gen LL solution for megaminx would be super fast. I know it wound be one look, but making it as 2gen as possible would be great.
So far for LL, I've been using a beginner solution I came up with myself that I don't like much. First flip edges using Petrus or FURU'R'F'. Then permute edges using T and Y perm. Then using RUR'DRU'R'D' and such commutators to solve the corners 1 or 2 at a time. Then orient with the (R'D'RD)*2 commutator. It's here that I really get to utilize that fingertrick. 
Would it be nice if I can just flip edges, prepare for 2gen, then finish?
I realized that 2gen for megaminx means something different from 2gen on the 3x3. I don't even think a 2 gen U perm is possible on the megaminx. So what can you do to prepare for the 2gen? How can you recognize it is 2gen-able?
(The 2gen part would probably be 2 look for convenience of look ahead and minimizing # of algs.)


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## masterofthebass (Sep 10, 2008)

U perms are definitely 2gen-able on megaminx. The idea of having 2GLL doesn't really apply, because the "sune" class of OLLs still permute corners. This is really a non possible idea. I would suggest orienting corners before using the T/Y perm because you can mainly use 3x3 algs. It's much quicker than using R'D'RD


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## fanwuq (Sep 10, 2008)

Then I would need a Megaminx E and A perm.
Also I have some trouble recognizing the OLL cases.
I realized that sune permute corners, so I wasn't sure how to make it 2gen-able. Guess it's not possible?


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## Cerberus (Sep 10, 2008)

when you look at eriks site you will see some 2gens for orientation and some permutations that got two L moves or F in it, btw: permutate corners is missing...


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## TMOY (Sep 10, 2008)

I perform the 4 steps of LL in the same order as you do (orient edges, permute edges, permute corners, orient corners) but with more efficient algorithms. And yes, solving the last 3 steps in 2-gen is possible; the only alg I'm using which is not 2-gen (or, more exactly, which cannot be easily turned into a 2-gen alg) is niklaas because it is definitely the fastest way to do a 3-cycle of corners.
(And I also use a chinese Megaminx, it's definitely better than my way too stiff Meffert..(U'R'UR)*6 in 3.8 seconds is good, you're much faster than me.)


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## qqwref (Sep 10, 2008)

2gen can solve everything on the last layer except for edge orientation.

Here are two U perms: R U R' U R' U' R2 U' R' U R' U R U2', and U2 R' U' R U' R U R2' U R U' R U' R'.

I think watermelon and I calculated some optimal 2-gen corner perms for each case a while ago too, here are samples:
Adjacent 3-Cycle: U2 R U R' U2 R' U' R U' R U' R' U2 R' U R
Non-Adjacent 3-Cycle: R U2 R' U2 R2 U R2' U2 R U2' R U' R' U R'
You CAN do PLL in two steps (or one if you're crazy enough) with 2gen, but the algs do end up being relatively long.

Oh, and I think I need a better minx, it takes me 7.5 seconds to do (RUR'U')6...


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## Lucas Garron (Sep 10, 2008)

How about some intuitive 2-gen LL work like this?

Scramble: R U' R' U' R U' R U R U' R U R' U' R U' R' U R' U R U R' U R'

Everything but FR slot: U'R'U2'R2UR2 U2'R'U2'RUR'U'R
3x2x1 block + edges: U2'RUR'U'RU2R'U'RU2R'U'RU'R'U

Anyhow, 2-gen A-perm and U-perm aren't hard.


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## DavidWoner (Sep 10, 2008)

Cerberus said:


> when you look at eriks site you will see some 2gens for orientation and some permutations that got two L moves or F in it, btw: permutate corners is missing...



that is a prettier, yet incomplete version of the info on eriks site. for the full guide you need to go here


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## Erik (Sep 10, 2008)

Meh...
2G LL! That made me laugh. Just the fact that you can solve the whole minx 2G after EO doesn't mean it is faster at all. Actually I know it is not at all... For instance: a 16 move RU alg instead of a normal 9 move corner 3 cycle sounds... crazy?


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## TMOY (Sep 10, 2008)

qqwref said:


> You CAN do PLL in two steps (or one if you're crazy enough) with 2gen, but the algs do end up being relatively long..


Like L2U2L'2UL2U2L'2 for ewample ?


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## fanwuq (Sep 10, 2008)

qqwref said:


> 2gen can solve everything on the last layer except for edge orientation.
> 
> Here are two U perms: R U R' U R' U' R2 U' R' U R' U R U2', and U2 R' U' R U' R U R2' U R U' R U' R'.
> 
> ...



Wow, really? Thank you very much for the nice algs! 
I'll definitely use the U perms. 
Do you also have algs for edges 2 2-cycles and non-ajacent 3-cycle?
For example, I use T perm for non ajacent 3-cycle of edges and 'N' perm for 2 2-cycle.
That N perm is: L R U2 L' U R' L U' R U2 L' U2 R'
But a 2gen alg would be much nicer.
And for corners, some 5-cycles?
For A perm, I found x' U' F' R B R' F' R B' R' F2 U
(and its inverse)
I guess I'll practice this and see if I should keep it or adapt a 2 gen one.
For "E" perm, I found U2 R2' U2' (R'FRF')*3 U2 R2 U2'

Could I see the list? How many cases are there?


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## TMOY (Sep 10, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> Do you also have algs for (...) non-ajacent 3-cycle?





TMOY said:


> Like L2U2L'2UL2U2L'2 for ewample ?


Did you try it ?


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## fanwuq (Sep 10, 2008)

TMOY said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > Do you also have algs for (...) non-ajacent 3-cycle?
> ...



No, I'm letting my friend borrow it for the day.


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## fanwuq (Sep 11, 2008)

Erik said:


> Meh...
> 2G LL! That made me laugh. Just the fact that you can solve the whole minx 2G after EO doesn't mean it is faster at all. Actually I know it is not at all... For instance: a 16 move RU alg instead of a normal 9 move corner 3 cycle sounds... crazy?



Well, we have different turning styles. While 2g, I can do over 6tps on crappy chinese megaminx, anthing else is significantly slower, like 2tps.
So 2G 16 mover would be like 3 seconds as opposed to 5 seconds for 9 mover not 2g.

Edit:
Thanks Erik!
Your site is so helpful. I'm test algs on gelatinbrain simulator right now. I just realized that T-perm U T-perm U = solved cube! So rather than doing inverse or reflection of T, it's the samething if you simple do it after a U, that's so cool! I'll using this for now until I memorize TMOY's alg. I'll adopt your OLL system rather than R'D'RD.


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## blah (Oct 9, 2008)

Does anyone have a list of 2-gen solutions for all EPLL cases?


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## Jerhn (Aug 27, 2009)

Hi, I`ve been looking for hours for algs to permut 5 corners . I found 3 cycle, 4 cycle, but whats with 5? Next question is, where can I find algs for OLL in one step and PLL in one step for megaminx? I know it`s rather impossible to memorize all of them but I`m just curious  Thanks for replay.


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## deadalnix (Aug 27, 2009)

Jerhn said:


> Hi, I`ve been looking for hours for algs to permut 5 corners . I found 3 cycle, *4 cycle*, but whats with 5? Next question is, where can I find algs for OLL in one step and PLL in one step for megaminx? I know it`s rather impossible to memorize all of them but I`m just curious  Thanks for replay.



This is impossible. Are you sure of you ?


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## Jerhn (Aug 27, 2009)

I can solve maegaminx in less than 1.30, and now i`m looking for some algs which can halp me to speed up my solves. First i want to learn 5 cycles but i can`t find algs! ;( But if someone have algs for Pll and Oll in one step i`m also interested


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## TMOY (Aug 27, 2009)

I highly doubt anybody has ever searched for full OLL and PLL algs on the megaminx, That's 410 algs and it won't speed up your solve very much anyway.
For 5-cycle of corners, I know the following algs:
L U2 L' U L U2 L'2 U'2 L U' L' U'2 L (doesn't preserve CO)
L2 U2 L'2 U L2 U' L'2 U L2 U' L'2 U L2 U2 L'2 (preserves CO)


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## Jerhn (Aug 27, 2009)

TMOY - thanks for your alg!!! I`m solving LL in following order: EO, CO, EP, CP - so i need only algs which won`t change corner orientation. I know that`s so many cases of full Pll and Oll, but maybe some of them could be useful, for exampe- if we have 3 edges flipped correctly, full Oll is not necessary, because I need 1 sec. to orient the rest. But when we have just one filpped correctly, the number of full Oll algs will be more friendly  and we can save few seconds. I`m not sure am I able to memorize all of "1 edge correctly" Oll algs, but if i won`t try, i won`t know it. If there is no full oll and pll algs in the Internet, is any other way to create them? Any program or simulator?


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## Johannes91 (Aug 27, 2009)

Corner 5-cycles:
R2 U2' R' U2 R' U' R U R U' R' U2' R' U2' R U R' U2' R U' R'
R2 U2 R2' U R2 U' R2' U R2 U' R2' U R2 U2 R2'
R U R' U R U2' R' U2' R' U R U2 R2' U' R U2' R' U2' R2
R U' R U R U2' R2' U' R' U R2' U2 R' U' R2' U2' R U2' R' 

I'll try to make a list of all PLL cases and some <U,R> algs for them.


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## cubeninjaIV (Aug 27, 2009)

i found that using the begginers method after orienting edges i permute the edges with RUR'URU2'R' and RU2R'URU2R' expeirement with it a bit and it should start to click i do corners the same way but i orient them first


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## Jerhn (Aug 27, 2009)

Thank you so much Johannes91! Can you tell me how did you find these algs? Do you have program like CubeExplorer working for megaminx?


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## qqwref (Aug 28, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> I'll try to make a list of all PLL cases and some <U,R> algs for them.



Do you mean just the pure CP and EP cases? I think there are something like 250 distinct PLL cases (probably closer to 125 algorithms once you remove mirrors) so it would be a lot of work to come up with algs for all of them and I doubt anyone would ever learn it all.


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