# Pierre Bouvier 3.00 Clock Single



## turtwig (Jul 14, 2017)

https://clips.twitch.tv/PopularIcyCaribouPJSalt

EDIT: It was a DNF. Apparently he was just trolling.


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## CornerCutter (Jul 14, 2017)

Just saw it on live! GJ!

I will update this when on CubeComps.

Edit: This solve was a DNF.


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## mycube (Jul 14, 2017)

Apparently it was a DNF and he was just trolling. (he knew that it was DNF and just behaved as if he made WR)


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## qaz (Jul 14, 2017)

Wasn't Nathaniel and it was a DNF lol


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## CornerCutter (Jul 14, 2017)

mycube said:


> Apparently it was a DNF and he was just trolling. (he knew that it was DNF and just behaved as if he made WR)





qaz said:


> Wasn't Nathaniel and it was a DNF lol


I just found that out as well. Not good.


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## Ollie (Jul 14, 2017)

The round wasn't over either


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## Gomorrite (Jul 14, 2017)

mycube said:


> Apparently it was a DNF and he was just trolling. (he knew that it was DNF and just behaved as if he made WR)


This is so stupid!


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## uyneb2000 (Jul 14, 2017)

I feel like regardless of whether he was trying to distract others or not, this merits some sort of punishment from the WDC. It's really not cool.


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## Ronxu (Jul 14, 2017)

Definitely deserves a ban. Influencing the results of a world championship final should not go unpunished. Joke around all you want at small local comps, but the round wasn't over and his actions undoubtedly distracted other competitors.


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## FireCuber (Jul 14, 2017)

That is too bad.. I can't believe it!


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## SpeedCuber71 (Jul 14, 2017)

There is a chance of few months ban if this is true. (i say few months because actual cheaters who have faked stuff not for trolling but for real to get away with it have gotten 1 year ban.)

Also, he had a 26 in the average already. Why did he cost himself a potential podium? I'm still confused :/


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## turtwig (Jul 14, 2017)

SpeedCuber71 said:


> Also, he had a 26 in the average already. Why did he cost himself a potential podium? I'm still confused :/



He didn't really have a chance for podium. His best possible average after his 4th solve was 8.47, which is over a second more than the 3rd place average.


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## SpeedCuber71 (Jul 14, 2017)

turtwig said:


> He didn't really have a chance for podium. His best possible average after his 4th solve was 8.47, which is over a second more than the 3rd place average.


Oh.
I was just referring to his speed in general but still doesn't make sense why he would mess up his average :/ .


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## weatherman223 (Jul 14, 2017)

saw this live. pretty messed up.


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## CornerCutter (Jul 14, 2017)

A small ban or something from the WCA would be good depending on everything that happened. 

Anybody know the details?



weatherman223 said:


> saw this live. pretty messed up.


Yes, big distraction.


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## Ronxu (Jul 14, 2017)

CornerCutter said:


> Anybody know the details?


Basically a group of French people had already cheered at most of his solves. Around half? of the people in the final had already finished their average and the other half (most notably Nathaniel and Knott) was either preparing for or completing their final attempt. Pierre did some random twists and stopped the timer at 3.00 and jumped around pretending that it was legit. Crowd started screaming and ****.


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## SpeedCuber71 (Jul 14, 2017)

Ronxu said:


> Basically a group of French people had already cheered at most of his solves. Around half? of the people in the final had already finished their average and the other half (most notably Nathaniel and Knott) was either preparing for or completing their final attempt. Pierre did some random twists and stopped the timer at 3.00 and jumped around pretending that it was legit. Crowd started screaming and ****.



I guess he didn't know that some competitors were still left and wanted to troll or something? Still got himself a counting 26...
If he knew there were still people left then ehh, he should have thought twice before doing this :/


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## Ronxu (Jul 14, 2017)

SpeedCuber71 said:


> I guess he didn't know that some competitors were still left and wanted to troll or something? Still got himself a counting 26...
> If he knew there were still people left then ehh, he should have thought twice before doing this :/


He definitely knew. He would've seen people at the solving stations to his left.


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## Charles Jerome (Jul 14, 2017)

He is in trouble big time, he distracted competitors not at a local comp, but at a World Championships which is not the right thing to do, so I think he deserves to be banned. I also got fooled while watching the live stream...


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## aybuck37 (Jul 14, 2017)

Wait why should this result in a ban?


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## I_<3_SCS (Jul 14, 2017)

aybuck37 said:


> Wait why should this result in a ban?



Excuse my French (lol), but this piece of [email protected]#$ distracted all the other competitors by [email protected]#$ around


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## WACWCA (Jul 14, 2017)

aybuck37 said:


> Wait why should this result in a ban?


Because he distracted other competitors who most likely believed it was legit. Then going into the last solves they might be expecting an easy solution and are looking for what he might've done. I personally don't find a ban appropriate, I would DNF his clock solves but im he got a bad avg anyway sonidk what they could do


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## efattah (Jul 14, 2017)

You can't disqualify anyone or anything unless specific rules have been broken. In some sports tactics such as trash talking other competitors are allowed. Similarly 'deceptive' tactics such as over-celebrating are allowed in some cases-- the rules need to be very clear as to what is allowed and what is not, you can't disqualify someone for something that isn't in the rules.


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## WACWCA (Jul 14, 2017)

efattah said:


> You can't disqualify anyone or anything unless specific rules have been broken. In some sports tactics such as trash talking other competitors are allowed. Similarly 'deceptive' tactics such as over-celebrating are allowed in some cases-- the rules need to be very clear as to what is allowed and what is not, you can't disqualify someone for something that isn't in the rules.


Yes I agree, but i do believe they should add something to the rules to cover situations like this


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## xyzzy (Jul 14, 2017)

WACWCA said:


> Yes I agree, but i do believe they should add something to the rules to cover situations like this



2k4 is what you're looking for.


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## turtwig (Jul 14, 2017)

efattah said:


> You can't disqualify anyone or anything unless specific rules have been broken. In some sports tactics such as trash talking other competitors are allowed. Similarly 'deceptive' tactics such as over-celebrating are allowed in some cases-- the rules need to be very clear as to what is allowed and what is not, you can't disqualify someone for something that isn't in the rules.



Well there's this rule:


A1c) A competitor participating in an event must be able to fulfill the event's requirements (e.g. know how to solve the puzzle). A competitor must not compete with expectation of a DNF result or an intentionally poor result. Penalty: disqualification of the attempt (DNF) or disqualification from the event (see Regulation 2j), at the discretion of the WCA Delegate.
I don't know how much it applies here, but he purposely did a DNF.


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## Underwatercuber (Jul 14, 2017)

aybuck37 said:


> Wait why should this result in a ban?


Because it's super distracting for other competitors and could throw them off


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## Charles Jerome (Jul 15, 2017)

aybuck37 said:


> Wait why should this result in a ban?


someone said it maybe a troll or wasnt serious about this fake wr distracts other competitors and the replies above saying he should be banned to one above saying that influencing world championship results by distraction, but im not sure.


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## I_<3_SCS (Jul 15, 2017)

This is pretty straightforward. As cops have told me often, "you do the crime, you pay the time."


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## guysensei1 (Jul 15, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> 2k4 is what you're looking for.


That reg also implies that anyone who jumps and shouts after getting good solves should be banned too


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## uyneb2000 (Jul 15, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> That reg also implies that anyone who jumps and shouts after getting good solves should be banned too



It is to the discretion of the delegate, so I guess this regulation could honestly be ultimately interpreted by the WDC. I feel some punishment is needed, we just have to wait and see :/


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## AlphaSheep (Jul 15, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> That reg also implies that anyone who jumps and shouts after getting good solves should be banned too


People have been warned for excessive reactions before, especially in events like blindfolded. Don't know if anyone has actually been banned for it though.


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## I_<3_SCS (Jul 15, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> People have been warned for excessive reactions before, especially in events like blindfolded. Don't know if anyone has actually been banned for it though.



I don't know how much more CLEAR-CUT this can GET!!!!!

I think he should be banned for disrupting competitors at a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP and INTENTIONALLY DNFing!!!!!!


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## xyzzy (Jul 15, 2017)

I_<3_SCS said:


> I don't know how much more CLEAR-CUT this can GET!!!!!
> 
> I think he should be banned for disrupting competitors at a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP and INTENTIONALLY DNFing!!!!!!



I think you should be banned for constantly abusing punctuation and all-caps, but hey, _opinions_.


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## Gomorrite (Jul 15, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> People have been warned for excessive reactions before, especially in events like blindfolded. Don't know if anyone has actually been banned for it though.


This is quite worse because it was premeditated.


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## aybuck37 (Jul 15, 2017)

Gomorrite said:


> This is quite worse because it was premeditated.


Ohh it was on purpose? I mean if it wasn't maybe he just messed up. He is pretty fast at clock


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## turtwig (Jul 15, 2017)

aybuck37 said:


> Ohh it was on purpose? I mean if it wasn't maybe he just messed up. He is pretty fast at clock



It's quite clear that he just faked a fast solve and purposely reacted a lot. The chance that it was genuinely a mistake is quite low.


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 15, 2017)

turtwig said:


> It's quite clear that he just faked a fast solve and purposely reacted a lot. The chance that it was genuinely a mistake is quite low.



Actually it was 100 percent a mistake.



guysensei1 said:


> That reg also implies that anyone who jumps and shouts after getting good solves should be banned too



Agreed, which happens all of the time, and this is no different from that. Is there a video?


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## Gomorrite (Jul 15, 2017)

Well, the judge would see if the puzzle was almost solved or not at all.


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## I_<3_SCS (Jul 15, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> Actually it was 100 percent a mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, which happens all of the time, and this is no different from that. Is there a video?


see the first few posts for vid


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## uyneb2000 (Jul 15, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> Actually it was 100 percent a mistake.



How can you make this presumption when you literally ask for a video of the solve in the same post?


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## Jlvs2run (Jul 16, 2017)

The DNF / mistake is easy to see on this thread, without first seeing the video. 
More extreme celebrating than his is common, and none of those people are penalized.
Because of that, I see no issue with his celebrating what he thought would be a good solve.
If people disagree, then the rules should be changed for everyone, not to single out one person.


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## turtwig (Jul 16, 2017)

Jlvs2run said:


> The DNF / mistake is easy to see on this thread, without first seeing the video.
> More extreme celebrating than his is common, and none of those people are penalized.
> Because of that, I see no issue with his celebrating what he thought would be a good solve.
> If people disagree, then the rules should be changed for everyone, not to single out one person.



The celebrating per se is not the issue. The issue is that it is likely the case that he *intentionally* got a world record time, in order to get a reaction from the crowd. Normal reactions also distract competitors, but we should generally allow such reacts for _legit _good times (except for during something like blind). It's inevitable that people will get excited over world records. But as far as I, and many other people, can see, Pierre knowingly faked a solve for a reaction, which then distracted other competitors, which is not defensible, at least not in the same way as normal reactions, which is why we think he should be punished.


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## aybuck37 (Jul 16, 2017)

Idk. I still think it was a mistake. If you look at his past times he is fast so it could be legit. I kinda wish you could see the pins.


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## uyneb2000 (Jul 16, 2017)

aybuck37 said:


> Idk. I still think it was a mistake. If you look at his past times he is fast so it could be legit. I kinda wish you could see the pins.



It's been confirmed that the scrambles were garbage and that people at the competition have been told that it was on purpose. He pulled a scum move, there's no argument to it. His clock solves have been DNF'ed, as they should. The argument that he just did it by mistake is no longer valid.



Jlvs2run said:


> The DNF / mistake is easy to see on this thread, without first seeing the video.
> More extreme celebrating than his is common, and none of those people are penalized.
> Because of that, I see no issue with his celebrating what he thought would be a good solve.
> If people disagree, then the rules should be changed for everyone, not to single out one person.



Please enlighten me with how you came to the conclusion that it was a mistake without any evidence through the use of either a video or a scramble and reconstruction. I really wish I had your powers.

Also, the regulation regarding celebrating is under 2k4, I believe, which is under the delegate's discretion, meaning that the regulation comes with context. If a guy legitimately had a good solve, then there's no need for a penalty, as we don't expect people the suppress the joy of breaking a PR, NR, CR, WR, etc. However, in the context of celebrating for the sake of disrupting others, then there should be a penalty. It's been confirmed that Pierre did this on purpose. The one thing that should be included in the regulations, in my opinion, is adding the word "excessive" or "intentional" or both to 2k4.

With the video you provided, the context of the solves was that the reactions were impulsive and really shouldn't be held against them. And in some, it wasn't even the competitor reacting. In Jakub's feet solve and Collin's 5.25, much of the commotion was from the spectators. Who should we punish then?

Again, your argument is under the presumption that he genuinely thought it was a good solve, which has been found to be false, so I don't really see what more there is to say about this.

EDIT: adding more just because why not. DNF/Mistake? Don't put them in the same category. This DNF was NOT a mistake, and this has been confirmed and dealt with. And after looking through the video again, some examples weren't even that extreme, and a LOT of them were during head-to-head, meaning nobody was even distracted. Only maybe three or four could be questionable with the regs WITHOUT context, but WITH context they would be completely understandable. Again, your argument was built completely around a presumption that was proven false.


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## Ordway Persyn (Jul 16, 2017)

This is fishy, this probably warrants an investigation by the WCA. I will withhold judgement until it is confirmed on wether he did/didn't do it on purpose, and/or to distract other competitors.


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## CornerCutter (Aug 31, 2017)

Did the WCA ever do anything about this?


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## FireCuber (Sep 1, 2017)

CornerCutter said:


> Did the WCA ever do anything about this?



Yeah, Did they?


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