# Old Zhanchi vs. New Zhanchi. Different plastic? All hype or fact?



## LarryLunchmeat (Feb 3, 2013)

I bought my first two Zhanchi's the first month they were released and I bought my third one just last month. I noticed slight differences between the old and new, but I think the only real difference is that my newer one isn't broken in. But there are noticeable differences between my two old ones that were bought from the same shop at the same time and probably came off the same assembly line too. I think this indicates that things like cube tensions and slight variances in hardware and assembly have more of an impact of a cubes overall feel than people think.

I examined all three of my Zhanchi's and there doesn't seem to be any noticeable difference in plastics, but EVEN if there was a different plastic, is it necessarily "better?" Put it this way; even though they feel slightly different from each other, I got the same average with all three of them, and I really can't tell the three of them apart in a blind test. 

I had a similar experience with guitar effect pedals a few years ago with a pedal that was produced over a period of about 12 years. About halfway through the pedals run, the Japan factory closed down and was moved to Taiwan. Users claimed that the older "Made In Japan" models sounded better than the newer "Made In Taiwan" ones. I had one of each and recorded a blind A/B test and posted the clips as a poll on a guitar forum where users could guess which sound clip was the "better" Made In Japan pedal. The results were split right down the middle at 50% which seems to suggest that differences really aren't noticeable despite everybody claiming that they could hear a difference.

I say it's more hype than anything. I'm not saying there's no difference, but I am saying that if there is, it doesn't necessarily make a better cube or give you better times. Just my two cents.


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## Isaac Paurus (Feb 3, 2013)

i dont think that most people buy the OP zhanchis because they think it'll make them faster, i think people just like the feel better. that is the case for me. i do believe that there was a change.


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## xShamoo21x (Feb 4, 2013)

There is definitely a difference. However, the performance is not better, just the feel.


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## insane569 (Feb 4, 2013)

Well I havent been on in awhile, But I still find it hard to believe that the plastic questions are still around.


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## Maccoboy (Feb 6, 2013)

As said earlier CrazyBadCuber contacted the manufacturer and they said its true the plastic has been changed, the debate so far has been about the fact that my dayan has said it hasnt.

as it turns out he was wrong and admitted it, he was just not aware that the plastic had changed.

and ythey feel different, its down to preference to see if its better.


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## SpeedCuberMod (Feb 6, 2013)

My friend has Old Zhanchi,Its so much better than my new one..performance and feeling..soooo smooth..And yes its not just broken in because My Zhanchi is well broken in and still isnt that good..even if Friends Zhanchi is unlubed.


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## CubeLTD (Feb 6, 2013)

Hype. Placebo affect.


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## jayefbe (Feb 7, 2013)

I have 3 57mm ZhanChis, all of them "sound" and "feel" different, just like every single batch is probably slightly different, and just like the way everybody lubes and tensions their cubes will make a difference. Doesn't mean that one is more special than any other, and it doesn't mean that there's a mythical cube that will somehow decrease your times to any degree at all.

There should be a 3rd option in the poll, "Yes, there are probably MANY slight differences in the plastic from one batch to another, but ultimately it doesn't matter and people shouldn't waste two seconds on it". CrazyBadCuber had Feliks on for a dual commentary in one of his videos. When CBC asked Feliks what his "main" cube was, Feliks laughed and said (I'm paraphrasing), "I don't have one, I just use whatever is around". This should emphasize how ridiculous it is worrying about "old plastic" and "new plastic". All Dayan cubes are amazing, and are good enough for setting records, it's the user that is of inferior quality and is what should be focused on.


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## ViXoZuDo (Feb 7, 2013)

So true, I have 2 zhanchi's and the 3 mini (55,50,52) and all of them feel different. Maybe the lube, maybe the plastic color (All of them is a different plastic color), maybe the tension, how straight is the core/screw (?) but after all, all have a different feel...


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## mark49152 (Feb 7, 2013)

Cuboris said:


> I didn't even know what an original plastic ZhanChi was when I watched a video of one for the first time, and it sounded completely different. That can't be the Placebo Effect.


No, could be microphone or speakers.


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## cubizh (Feb 7, 2013)

For the people still looking for "_original plastic zhanchi's_", I recommend just getting pre-ordered panshis. I know with 100% certainty that these are original plastic panshis. There is no need to talk to manufacturers to know this fact.
And in a couple of years, they will be worth much more than they are now, when or if the plastic changes again.
With all this talk about plastic quality, I have no idea why some stores haven't adopted this marketing idea to bump sales on this or other puzzles.


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## Godmil (Feb 7, 2013)

LarryLunchmeat said:


> ...in a blind test.



You sir, are a my hero. Too many people are unaware that they are swayed by placebos and confirmation bias.
As far as I remember Dayan switched plastic when they realised that everyone was preferring the white/coloured cubes feel, which was a less durable plastic. But there is also someone on the forums who works in plastics (sorry I can't remember who), who said you can get a lot of variation between different batches of plastics anyway.

I'm with you, I think if people did a blind comparison of two cubes which they didn't already own, they wouldn't be able to tell which was an old or new model. If they have a preference at the moment it's probably a lot more to do with tension/lube etc.
(But I'd be willing to be proven wrong).


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## rubixwiz031 (Feb 7, 2013)

*How to tell an original plastic Zhanchi from a normal one?*

Hi. I have an old Zhanchi that I got when they just came out, and I was wondering how to tell if it is an original plastic one or not. I am also looking to buy another original plastic Zhanchi, and don't want to get ripped off with a normal one.

Thanks,
Doug.


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## ViXoZuDo (Feb 7, 2013)

You can't tell it with a regular method, it's just feel different, smother (less crispy). And like a lot of people say, it's more hype than a real difference.

Maybe other way to know it is with the serial number. It must be a very low one, but I don't know which one is the last "old plastic".


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## LarryLunchmeat (Feb 7, 2013)

rubixwiz031 said:


> Hi. I have an old Zhanchi that I got when they just came out, and I was wondering how to tell if it is an original plastic one or not. I am also looking to buy another original plastic Zhanchi, and don't want to get ripped off with a normal one.
> 
> Thanks,
> Doug.


That's what I'm thinking.. What's stopping someone from selling their "new plastic" Zhanchi as an "old plastic" Zhanchi? I've noticed that there have been a lot of "OLD PLASTIC ZHANCHI FOR SALE" threads popping up lately and as far as I know there's no real defining way to prove what type your Zhanchi is. 

Oh, btw, I have an old plastic Zhanchi for sale.


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## antoineccantin (Feb 7, 2013)

My Zhanchi I bought just when it came out *sucks*. I've been buying Zhanchis relatively recently to sell to people at school and I find them amazing.


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## mark49152 (Feb 8, 2013)

Cuboris said:


> So it happens to be that all the other ZhanChi's sound similar on my computer but this one sounded different?
> 
> Also, if you think about it, there has to be a reason people think there's an original plastic ZhanChi. There wouldn't be rumors about original plastic if people didn't actually figure out that the first ZhanChi's were different. If it was all rumor, why is there no rumor of original plastic LingYun's or LunHui's?


It's already been confirmed that there were differences in plastic between different production runs. What I don't believe is that you can tell the difference from a video.


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## uniacto (Feb 8, 2013)

For the poll: what is the definition of "better"? 

Does it make your times faster? 
No, probably not. So in that perspective, the old plastic is not "better" than the new plastic, if you believe that there are actually new and old plastics. 

Does it feel smoother and nicer? 
Sure, according to multiple reviews. (this is all assuming that you actually believe there are differences in plastic.) In this perspective, then the old plastic is, in fact, better. 

It all depends on what perspective you look at on this situation, or any situation in general. There are always multiple points of view and perspectives in an argument.


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## jayefbe (Feb 8, 2013)

Cuboris said:


> So it happens to be that all the other ZhanChi's sound similar on my computer but this one sounded different?
> 
> Also, if you think about it, there has to be a reason people think there's an original plastic ZhanChi. There wouldn't be rumors about original plastic if people didn't actually figure out that the first ZhanChi's were different. If it was all rumor, why is there no rumor of original plastic LingYun's or LunHui's?



So the mere existence of a rumor is evidence that the rumor is fact?

Also, I highly doubt all Zhanchis sound the same on your computer. My Zhanchis sound different, and none of them are "old plastic".


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## EeeeeWarne (Feb 8, 2013)

How can something 'sound' smoother? Do you mean it is quieter? You can't see the smell of roses and you can't touch two pieces of paper and know which one is pink. I have two ZhanChi's (which are both white). My older one is looser and louder, however it FEELS smoother, despite being louder. My newer one is not quite as smooth but it almost silent. 

In terms of original plastic, there may be a difference, but does that make a difference to feel or speed? The placebo effect is very strong. On average, people feel better if they are given medicine by a doctor in a white lab coat.

My friend got a ZhanChi the week it came out, I prefer my other friend's one that he got two months ago. This is because the second one is lubed better. So any difference in plastic is less than what comes from good lubrication. 

If the whole plastic thing is just a rumor, the reason it is not about LingYun's and LunHui's is that the LingYun has two different versions, and the original one didn't have many takers because it popped like crazy. The LunHui is just nowhere near as popular as the ZhanChi. There was a fuss over Original Plastic GuHong's and how they changed the plastic for the v2. Is this a rumor, or do they feel the slight differences in design?

And if there is a difference that is noticeable, is it worth paying an extra however much?


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## jayefbe (Feb 8, 2013)

Cuboris said:


> In basic terms, I'm saying that there has to be some legitimate reason for the existence of the rumor, but a lot of people are saying it's completely blind and illogical.



No, in basic terms, you're saying that the existence of a rumor suggests that there is a legitimate reason for the rumor. Which is completely illogical. If there IS a legitimate reason to believe that there is a difference in plastic, then use THAT to support your argument. Don't say that the fact that a rumor exists means that there's a legitimate reason for the rumor. It's circular reasoning. I still haven't heard a legitimate and objective argument to support the "old is better" side of things. It's all "it feels better", "one is smoother through my computer speakers", or "this person contacted someone who knows someone that heard something and they said that it's true and everyone else is a straight up liar, also nobody would be saying it if it wasn't true, so obvious it's true". 

I believe that there's a difference in plastic among ALL batches of cubes. If this didn't coincide with a slight change in cores, and wasn't overblown by YouTube, nobody would notice. I have a ZhanChi that I am positive that I could convince someone is an old plastic version. Why? It feels slightly smoother than the other ones I own, and the hype has created an expectation that will skew people's perceptions. It's why people think organic fruits taste better, when any objective study would show that there is no discernible difference to us.


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## yockee (Feb 8, 2013)

Not again. They are different. I have 3 old ones, and several new ones. All the new ones suck. They get slow and the old ones just don't. The old ones are lighter (you don't need to turn them to notice a difference). They feel cheaper. They are much smoother and faster, even if the old ones are brand new (which 2 of mine are), and they don't lock like the new ones. The new ones feel fat and heavy. In light, you can see differences in the color. There are definite changes in the plastic. If you aren't able to notice them, you have poor attention to detail.
And to the person who thinks it's placebo.... I originally bought one when they were very first released, in July 11. In November 11, I bought my second one and noticed it was much crispier and just different overall. After buying a few more, and getting a few more old ones, I realized it was a plastic difference. No one told me, and I feel I was one of the first to even notice, at least out of people that I know. There are several other people that agree, who know what they are talking about. Its not placebo.
For the guy with all the Eeee's in his name, let me explain it this way:
The Gu Hongs started with one type of plastic, then it changed a few months later to what you get today. 
The Gu Hong v2 has an even different plastic than the new v1 plastic.

The Ling Yun v1 and Lun Hui have the old, good plastic.
The Ling Yun v2 has the crappy, new plastic.
The Zhan Chi started out with the good plastic, (however, the old white ZCs is NOT the same plastic as the old white Gu Hongs, yet, it is still better than the new white ZCs)
and now has the crappy, new plastic. 
My guess as for why it has happened this way is this: 
As the Gu Hong and Zhan Chi started, they were made with a soft, cheaper plastic, and as they grew in popularity, they upgraded the plastic to a more expensive, sturdier plastic. 
The Ling Yun v1 and Lun Hui never changed because they never really became that popular, therefore, there was no reason to upgrade to make them sturdier.


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## Jboogie300 (Mar 18, 2013)

Everybody hast their own opinion. Feliks is an extraordinary cuber, but his opinions shouldn't apply to everyone unless they made that decision on their own. It's all preference. A better feeling cube can influence a person to practice more, to get faster, to improve. It's all up to the individual.


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## redbeat0222 (Mar 19, 2013)

Opinions will be opinions. It shouldn't matter what type it is. It depends on the cuber.


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## ~Adam~ (Mar 19, 2013)

The term 'observational bias' comes to mind.

There is no significant difference because of the plastic.
I bought 2 DIY 55mm ZhanChis when they 1st came out. I assembled them at the same time, in the same way and used the same lube in the same places in the same quantities. They felt completely different.


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## antoineccantin (Mar 19, 2013)

My old Zhanchi sucks yet my new one is great.

My old Guhong is great, my medium Guhong is great, my new Guhong is great.


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## Chrisalead (Mar 19, 2013)

I bought 3 Zhanchi at the same time, right after they were released. One of them is incredibly smooth and fast (my main). The second is really great but feels heavier, the third feels like it's made of really bad plastic and it feels lighter that the other two.

IMO it's just a matter of luck because every single cube is different !

Edit : All of them are white.


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## a small kitten (Mar 19, 2013)

> The term 'observational bias' comes to mind.
> 
> There is no significant difference because of the plastic.
> I bought 2 DIY 55mm ZhanChis when they 1st came out. I assembled them at the same time, in the same way and used the same lube in the same places in the same quantities. They felt completely different.



I think the others are discussing 57mm ZhanChis.


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## yockee (May 9, 2013)

They are incredibly better, so much so, in fact that I will never buy a new ZC ever again. I have 2 new ones and they just turn into garbage. All 3 of my originals are still going strong, and actually, I have 2 different kinds of original ones. I have the one I very very first got with the pre order, which is different to one that was from later on that same month. I have 2 black ones and one white one. The white one is like the second black one I got. I am not willing to sell them because they are my favorites, but I'm just letting it be known that there are 2 different kinds. Most people only seem to have the second kind though. They are all shown in this video. There is a short intro where I beat the crap out of an old man and steal his fig newtons, then the ZCs are after that, before the reviews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98_4uV55x6U

And I really hate this poor attention to detail people seem to have, or just plain disbelief that they exist. There is a HUGE difference, there is no mixing up the different ones.
You don't even have to turn them to know they are originals or new ones. The new ones are much sturdier and heavier / bulkier feeling. The originals are super fast with no effort while the new ones stay fast for a short time and just kind of die out and feel like garbage, with lockups. I could sit here blindfolded, have a thousand people put ZC's into my hands, and I'll tell you which ones are old and new before I even turn them. You can also see the difference by looking at the pieces. The old ones have a more solid, darker black color, while the new ones have this light black, with grey swirls thing happening.

Side story on how I originally realized there was a change: 

First off, I should say that my first pre order, original original ZC I had first. The second type of original from later that month and the white one which is the same as that second type, I bought much more recently from other people. The black one came from Phil Yu of the Cubicle and the white one was from izovire who still had some whites left from his first batch.
So, I bought my original ZC and it was great, smooth, fast, effortless to use (and I'll mention here that I tension ALL of them the EXACT same)
I had it starting July 2011, and wanted to try my first Lubix cube, so in November 2011, I bought a ZC from Lubix. I got it and it was really hard and scratchy. I thought, "wow, the Lubix cubes really do feel different!" No one ever told me there were different plastics, no one even mentioned this before I brought it up to CBC (I got him his original from the same Phil Yu batch which was originally sold to Aryn Scheulkin (Modcuber)). 
After about 2 months, my Lubix ZC started to wear out, so I went back to using my first one. I couldn't believe how different they felt. Then, I realized, my old one was still really good, but my brand new Lubix one was crap. I ordered another ZC from a regular store, unmodded, etc. It felt exactly like the Lubix one. Then, it hit me, the plastics were different. That's why my first one is so much better. That's why the Lubix one felt different. Not because it was modded, but because it was changed. 
** I will admit, the white ones are harder to tell apart. The new white ones are really good, but still sturdier and heavier feeling than the old ones. Also, the old white ones are a solid, bright, pure white, while the newer ones are an off white / grey color.


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## Bunyanderman (May 9, 2013)

Thanks Yockee for backing me up, but every one that disagrees this is my opinion. If you disagree than this is not the place to argue


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## TheOneOnTheLeft (May 9, 2013)

yockee said:


> There is a short intro where I beat the crap out of an old man and steal his fig newtons



This is why your videos are the best.


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## yockee (May 9, 2013)

TheOneOnTheLeft said:


> This is why your videos are the best.



Hahaha, thanks man.


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## ~Adam~ (May 9, 2013)

*Looking for an Original Plastic Zhanchi*



yockee said:


> Blah blah blah



It's because of ridiculous posts like these that people are willing to pay through the nose for original ZhanChi's.

I have new, original, coloured and mini ZhanChi's.

They all, like all other cubes, start to feel a bit worse when it's been a while since they've been cleaned, tensioned and lubed.
Once you've done that they feel like much better cubes again.

I also bought 2 55mm DIY ZhanChis at the same time, built, tensioned and lubed them exactly the same and guess what, they felt completely different.

Ps I liked the bit where you said your new ZhanChis turn into garbage. Cute.
Try solving a Rubik brand cube straight out the box and compare it to your 'garbage' ZhanChis. Even compare them to Alpha Vs and F2s.


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## yockee (May 9, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> It's because of ridiculous posts like these that people are willing to pay through the nose for original ZhanChi's.
> 
> I have new, original, coloured and mini ZhanChi's.
> 
> ...



Ask anyone who has ever trusted my opinions on anything if I've ever been wrong. I have a very trusted opinion for many people, because I have a serious attention for detail. 
And I've never had to clean or relube any of my originals. Only the garbage new ones.
When I say garbage, I'm not comparing them to brand new Rubik's brands. Hell, I even have a Rubik's brand that isn't bad. It cuts 45 and I can sub 12 with it. I am also a huge fan of ALL of the Alpha cubes and the first 2 type F cubes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them. I know what I'm talking about because I own all of these cubes and have been studying and comparing them for a few years now. This is why people trust me. A ZC should not feel like the new ones. Sorry.


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## ~Adam~ (May 9, 2013)

*Looking for an Original Plastic Zhanchi*

So you want me to ask someone who trusts your opinion if they trust your opinion?

Your opinion can't be 'trusted' to be true. After all it is just an opinion. Do a double blinded study and I'll trust the results.

What I do know is a new ZhanChi is one of the best, if not the best cube, you can buy new. Your opinion could cost people money unnecessarily.


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## yockee (May 9, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> So you want me to ask someone who trusts your opinion if they trust your opinion?
> 
> Your opinion can't be 'trusted' to be true. After all it is just an opinion. Do a double blinded study and I'll trust the results.
> 
> What I do know is a new ZhanChi is one of the best, if not the best cube, you can buy new. Your opinion could cost people money unnecessarily.



No no, I would never ask anyone to pay loads of money for any cube. Are they better than new ZC's? YES, by far. Are they worth more than new ZC's? Yes, because they're harder to find. I even just recently had someone offer me $100 for one of mine, but I can't get rid of them because they are THAT good. Even the original plastic Gu Hongs and Ling Yun v1's are better than new ZC's. They're all great cubes that you can rarely find nowadays, and therefore, priceless to me.


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## ~Adam~ (May 9, 2013)

*Looking for an Original Plastic Zhanchi*

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. My collection in running into the several thousand dollar range now and I would never buy a previous version of a puzzle for well over the odds just because some people's opinions of them are high. I have original GuHongs, LingYuns, ZhanChis and a couple of SS4 V IIIs I would never sell for a high price because it is just perpetuating an unproven belief IMO.


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## uniacto (May 9, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. My collection in running into the several thousand dollar range now and I would never buy a previous version of a puzzle for well over the odds just because some people's opinions of them are high. I have original GuHongs, LingYuns, ZhanChis and a couple of SS4 V IIIs I would never sell for a high price because it is just perpetuating an unproven belief IMO.



Then would you sell them for the regular prices then? I also don't see how Shengshous are relavant in your argument.


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## ~Adam~ (May 9, 2013)

Not planning on selling them. I tend to give puzzles I don't use anymore to friends who I've taught.

SS4 version III is regarded by some as the best SS post modding I think. Some people seem to be willing to pay crazy money for them.


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## yockee (May 9, 2013)

The SSv5 will catch on soon. It is great! I don't even touch the rest anymore. I still want to find a v2, though.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 9, 2013)

Do you happen to have pics of the pieces next to the v4?

If so.. please post in the shengshou v5 thread with them?


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## yockee (May 9, 2013)

I don't, but I can try to take some with my wife's camera when she gets home.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 9, 2013)

Yes please 

Thank you


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## ~Adam~ (May 10, 2013)

a small kitten said:


> I think the others are discussing 57mm ZhanChis.



I know. I was pointing out how 2 'identical' puzzles can feel completely different.


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## stensgaard (May 10, 2013)

where does the stickerless ZhanChi fit into all this?
is it closer to the new or the old one in "feel" / plastic quality?


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## Maccoboy (May 12, 2013)

@cube-oh-holic

your inbox is full  i can't reply


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## greenblob1818 (Jul 13, 2013)

I am getting an "Original Plastic" ZhanChi on Monday. I found a shop in China that still had some ZhanChi's left over from the original batch. I post about how it is when I get back from China or next week as I may not have Wi-Fi.


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## mark49152 (Jul 13, 2013)

greenblob1818 said:


> I am getting an "Original Plastic" ZhanChi on Monday. I found a shop in China that still had some ZhanChi's left over from the original batch. I post about how it is when I get back from China or next week as I may not have Wi-Fi.


Buy them all up and sell them on here, you'd make a decent profit  How do you know they are "original batch" anyway?


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## greenblob1818 (Jul 13, 2013)

I contacted them and they said it was the original batch that they got when the ZhanChi first came out. I only bought one. I'll buy them all if they really are "originals."


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## greenblob1818 (Jul 18, 2013)

Okay, so Original Plastic ZhanChi's are real and they are better.

The old ZhanChi's are pitch black unlike the newer ones which are a lighter colour. It is really clear so that's how you know if it's original. They are smoother, faster and feel more like butter once lubed. I have modded another ZhanChi and it feels as good as an original plastic, but feels cheaper and harder due to the plastic. A modded original would be amazing. 

I have tried out both ZhanChi's and now I know that there IS a difference. It's fact, not hype.​


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## ~Adam~ (Jul 18, 2013)

greenblob1818 said:


> Okay, so Original Plastic ZhanChi's are real and they are better.
> 
> Stuff
> 
> I have tried out both ZhanChi's and now I know that there IS a difference. It's fact, not hype. [/LEFT]



No two cubes feel exactly the same.
Your single data point means absolutely nothing. That's an actual fact.


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## cube100 (Jul 18, 2013)

Yes older zhanchi is better that the newer zhanchi because the quality of plastic is better in the older versions


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## Lchu613 (Jul 18, 2013)

That's debatable, some may prefer the feel of the new plastic. Also the new plastic may not be as smooth and may break in slower, but it probably last longer as it is harder.


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## jayefbe (Jul 18, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> No two cubes feel exactly the same.
> Your single data point means absolutely nothing. That's an actual fact.



This, absolutely. Add in placebo built up from the ridiculous hype surrounding the "OP" zhanchi (thanks again CBC) and that's enough to explain any perceived difference. I'm positive an unscrupulous seller could sell fake "OP" zhanchis and it would result in dozens of YouTube videos of people testifying about how much better the "OP" version is. 

Plus, I'm skeptical of any shops that still have stock of 2+ year old cubes. Since its release, this has been the most popular speed cube. What kind of shop would buy so many cubes in their initial order that they couldn't sell them all in over 2 years? The Panshi, sure, but the zhanchi? Additionally, things may be done differently in China, but stock can usually be returned to the supplier if it doesn't sell. 

I'm sure there are some incredibly old zhanchis sitting on the shelves of toy shops here and there. But I'm also sure that these are isolated instances where a small shop may have ordered a handful of cubes, and then never sold them all because they sell such low numbers of cubes. So how would someone across the world find such a shop? It would have to be pure dumb luck. Plus, how can someone remember when they received shipment of stock from over two years ago? Who would actually look that up for someone that only wants to buy a single cube? Especially when it's much simpler to just answer yes to every question, and guarantee a sale. My money is on the latter.


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## greenblob1818 (Jul 22, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> No two cubes feel exactly the same.
> Your single data point means absolutely nothing. That's an actual fact.



Well, the plastic is a pure black (like xxoxia said in his post) unlike the new ones which you can easily tell that it is grayish. It is really noticeable.

I also got a LingYun V1 to compare and it was pitch black because they are original plastic. It is almost identical in the OP ZhanChi but it is ever so sightly lighter in colour (still pure black though, you really have to look closely have have good attention to detail.) My data is backed up by xxoxia and others. If you don't believe that OP ZhanChi's exist, fine by me. 

All I'm saying on this forum is that I found that OP ZhanChi's exist and telling everyone that it isn't all hype (although CBC did create quite a bit of hype), most of the rumors are true that the plastic is different.


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## ~Adam~ (Jul 22, 2013)

greenblob1818 said:


> Okay, so Original Plastic ZhanChi's are real and they are better.​






greenblob1818 said:


> All I'm saying on this forum is that I found that OP ZhanChi's exist and telling everyone that it isn't all hype (although CBC did create quite a bit of hype), most of the rumors are true that the plastic is different.



It also seems as if you think that because you think yours is better that they are better.​


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## greenblob1818 (Jul 22, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> It also seems as if you think that because you think yours is better that they are better.



No. The one I got was better than the new ZhanChi's and so are other's OP ZhanChi's like CBC's, Phil's, xxoxia's, MODcuber's, Justin's, Camile's etc. They all say that they are better so I tried them and found that they are better. It proves that they are better because I have more than 10 sources saying that they are better.

Do you have an original plastic ZhanChi? If you don't then you can't day that they are worse, better or the same. You would not be able to say that my statements are false until you have one and tried it. You can believe whatever you want, you just can't say for sure unless you have one.


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## greenblob1818 (Jul 22, 2013)

jayefbe said:


> This, absolutely. Add in placebo built up from the ridiculous hype surrounding the "OP" zhanchi (thanks again CBC) and that's enough to explain any perceived difference. I'm positive an unscrupulous seller could sell fake "OP" zhanchis and it would result in dozens of YouTube videos of people testifying about how much better the "OP" version is.
> 
> Plus, I'm skeptical of any shops that still have stock of 2+ year old cubes. Since its release, this has been the most popular speed cube. What kind of shop would buy so many cubes in their initial order that they couldn't sell them all in over 2 years? The Panshi, sure, but the zhanchi? Additionally, things may be done differently in China, but stock can usually be returned to the supplier if it doesn't sell.
> 
> ...



There are very few big cube shops in China. I get the cubes in China when my relatives come to Perth from several taobao shops. Go on taobao and search "zhanchi." There are lots of results and different shops that sell the ZhanChi. I contacted a small shop that sold the ZhanChi and they said that they don't sell many and that they have ZhanChi's from the original batches. For other shops, it could be complete luck.

I might have been lucky but in China, you have a higher chance of landing an OP ZhanChi.


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## ~Adam~ (Jul 22, 2013)

greenblob1818 said:


> No. The one I got was better than the new ZhanChi's and so are other's OP ZhanChi's like CBC's, Phil's, xxoxia's, MODcuber's, Justin's, Camile's etc. They all say that they are better so I tried them and found that they are better. It proves that they are better because I have more than 10 sources saying that they are better.



Wow 10. That's almost everybody that has ever tried an original ZhanChi.

How about the hundreds of people who don't have a strong opinion on the subject so stay quiet?



greenblob1818 said:


> Do you have an original plastic ZhanChi? If you don't then you can't day that they are worse, better or the same. You would not be able to say that my statements are false until you have one and tried it. You can believe whatever you want, you just can't say for sure unless you have one.



I have 2 originals left, I bought 4 and gave 2 away.

They feel about the same as the new ones.


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## stensgaard (Jul 22, 2013)

I have 3 stickerless from one batch and 3 from another.. Bought at the same shop 3-4 months apart.. 
And they are very different!

First 3 are the same.
Last 3 are the same.

Love the fist 3.
Last 3 are just ok!

So not sure about old vs new.. But I can confirm that there are very different versions of these cubes out there!


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## antoineccantin (Jul 22, 2013)

The Zhanchi I use for feet is an originial plastic one (I got pre-order). I decided to use it for feet because it was too crappy for any other event.


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## jayefbe (Jul 22, 2013)

greenblob1818 said:


> There are very few big cube shops in China. I get the cubes in China when my relatives come to Perth from several taobao shops. Go on taobao and search "zhanchi." There are lots of results and different shops that sell the ZhanChi. I contacted a small shop that sold the ZhanChi and they said that they don't sell many and that they have ZhanChi's from the original batches. For other shops, it could be complete luck.
> 
> I might have been lucky but in China, you have a higher chance of landing an OP ZhanChi.



You bought the "OP" zhanchi assuming it would be great. Now you think it's great. It's obvious that you're not a reliable source. 

How is a small store that doesn't sell many cubes going to know it came from the original batch? All they know is that they got them a long time ago. Again, I believe they just gave you the answers you wanted in order to guarantee a sale.


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## ~Adam~ (Jul 22, 2013)

I've decided this thread is pointless.

The 'true believers' are never going to entertain the idea of it being a placebo effect.

The 'skeptics' are never going to accept that the originals are better without a largish blinded study.

I'm out.

*wipes hands*


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## PeelingStickers (Jul 22, 2013)

I have felt one briefly at a comp, it feels different to my zhanchi, yet I believe it is either a placebo effect (this one had the original plastic colour), or it was lubed differently to mine.

I wouldn't be surprised if they used slightly different plastic in mass production though.


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## SatoshiPikachu (Jul 23, 2013)

Hhhmmm, it'd be interesting to really test this, but I can't come up with any experiment designs that don't lend themselves to a bunch of biases. 

I have a feeling it's mostly about the way they're assembled, tensioned and lubed, though. I've got two Zhan Chi, both the old ones (actually, one's supposed to be a prototype), and even though they're both amazingly fast, they feel quite different, probably because I assembled one of them.

I kind of agree withcube-o-holic that this discussion probably won't get anywhere, though XD


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## TheJCube (Aug 5, 2013)

I set up an experiment to test this plastics fiasco. Unfortunately, I only got 8 people at World Championships  (too busy with my events)
I would like to see other people design these experiments too.


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## Coolster01 (Aug 5, 2013)

TheJCube said:


> I set up an experiment to test this plastics fiasco. Unfortunately, I only got 8 people at World Championships  (too busy with my events)
> I would like to see other people design these experiments too.



Awesome video! I really thought the new one was the old, I thought it was softer lol. I don't think I'm a believer anymore  xD


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## Lid (Aug 5, 2013)

The video didn't say anything of which cube the testers though were the best one.


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## TheJCube (Aug 5, 2013)

Cubers have different tastes when it comes to cubes, so I thought it would be more objective this way.


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## jayefbe (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm glad someone finally did a blind test. However, I have something like ~6 zhanchis and they all feel different to the point that I could identify each of them without looking at them. I'm sure that if I took 2 of them and then told people that one of them was an "OP" zhanchi, they would perceive them as being different (which I agree, they are different) and one is staggeringly better than the other. I totally agree that there's variation among zhanchis, and among all cubes of a certain make for that matter. I just don't believe in some mythical rare zhanchi that's better than the rest. It's not unusual that what's rare is also generally perceived as better, that's the nature of our psychology. I don't think it's actually true.


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## CubezUBR (Aug 9, 2013)

*Original zhanchi identification (core and mech)*

i have 2 zhamchis, one is old and broken and has a opaque core and was bad and the other is my main and is really good and smooth and has a translucent core (not totaly transparent) and the core is more white. is there a different core in original plastic zhanchis to more newer ones? i bought the bad one in early 2013 and the new one more recently but the person who sold it to me had it for ages


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## Lchu613 (Aug 9, 2013)

IDK but I also have both cores. The two cubes were very different, the one w/ the opaque tannish core was smoother but slower (though I think it was more broken in), the creamy white core one was faster and also has weird texturish patches on some of the edges, and the plastic is less shiny. I don't know if that means anything.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Sep 25, 2013)

There is also rumors for Original Plastic Lunhui?


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## Adrian0 (Sep 26, 2013)

How can you even tell the core makes a difference in speed? It stays fixed without any motion...


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## Lchu613 (Sep 26, 2013)

Of course the core wouldn't make much difference if any.
But the point is that they have different cores, therefore they're probably from different manufacturing periods or something.


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## yockee (Oct 15, 2013)

I have 3 different types of ZhanChi, and they are definitely not "all hype". It's so tiring hearing about this subject because people can't seem to accept that there are more than one kind of ZhanChi, in terms of plastic feel. It's not even like it's a tiny difference, either. They are some pretty noticeable differences. 
The very first kind that ever was released was only around a matter of a couple of weeks. This was the kind I got with my pre order (and this is not including the prototypes). This very first kind was really cheap feeling, very "thin and light" allowing effortless turning and cutting, literally. This was, by far, the best kind, but because it was so fragile, it was changed to a harder grade of ABS.
This second kind is what most people today think of as the original because this is what most people first received, since there seemed to be so few of the first kind. This is the kind that CBC has, I have a couple, and most other people who have what they think is an original I have yet to see another one of the first kind, other than the one I own. This upgrade was still very thin, cheap, and light feeling, but not nearly as cheap as the first kind (this exact same "upgrade" was made with the LingYun v1's as well). Because of this harder and slightly heavier plastic, the cube isn't quite AS fast as the real original, but still very fast compared to the new laggy, slow, heavy ones, made with PC.
The new ones (ABS/PC) are by far, the heaviest and bulkiest feeling of the 3. Lube doesn't seem to help much with these, at least not for very long, and they lock up quite a bit compared to the other 2, which are incredible. 
If you MUST get a ZhanChi today, do yourself a favor and buy the 55mm. It is much better than the 57's you can get today. The plastic in the 55mm seems to be the same as the plastic used in the megaminx and 2x2. Not sure how its different from the ABS/PC, but it is.




Adrian0 said:


> How can you even tell the core makes a difference in speed? It stays fixed without any motion...



The core has NOTHING to do with the change in feel. It's the plastic of the cube. The old cores (pure white ish) were not only used in the originals, but were in the new ones for a while, up until the GuHong v2 came out, which then the core changed. And to the guy above you, there is no original plastic LunHui. The only person that I know of, who has ever used that term, is Womack. LunHuis seem to be the ONLY Dayan (not including the v2's or PanShi) which never changed. It's been a while since I've bought one though, so I may just get one to find out for sure.



Lchu613 said:


> IDK but I also have both cores. The two cubes were very different, the one w/ the opaque tannish core was smoother but slower (though I think it was more broken in), the creamy white core one was faster and also has weird texturish patches on some of the edges, and the plastic is less shiny. I don't know if that means anything.



That one with the weird texture / less shiny, is one of the originals. Not sure if its the first or second kind, but that's one of them.


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