# Introducing CTLL: A Novel Simplified Approach to ZBLL



## 4Chan (Jan 16, 2015)

What if I told you that ZBLL can be carried out with:


Under 200 algorithms.
Easy memorization.
Fingertricky, fast algs.
Near optimal algorithms.

I recently had dinner with Andrew Kang and Chris Hardwick, whom inspired me to do a little bit of cubing.
As I was going through my old notes, I was trying to figure out ways to reduce the total number of work that I'd have to do to get going again.

I hypothesized that_ any ZBLL permutation can be solved with the combination of two OLL algorithms._

As I started inverting and combining OLLs to find cases, I realised that SEVERAL combinations of OLLs were already optimal or within a few turns of optimal. Since they're OLLs, they were also fingertrick friendly and most people already know them. It was after I started combining algorithms that I realised that this could significantly simplify ZBLL for easy memorization.

The only thing that needs to be memorized is which combination of OLLs to use, instead of a whole new algorithm.

*For example:*

Set up the case: R, U2, R2, F2, R, F2, L', U', R, U', L, R', U', R, U', R'

This is solved _optimally_ with the combination of the two common OLLs
[f, R, U, R', U, f'] + [F, R, U, R', U', F']

The f' and the F cancel to become S', which when done with a thumb motion, becomes quite fast.

*TL;DR: CTLL is the combination of fast OLLs to do ZBLL, memorizing OLL pairs is easier than memorizing new algs!*

I'll be working on this in the coming months, I'll update if I make any breakthroughs!


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## StachuK1992 (Jan 16, 2015)

a) Woah, it's Chris Tran
b) Isn't this basically Kirjava/Rob's thing from years back, but ZBLL rather than full LL?


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## 4Chan (Jan 16, 2015)

Aw, I've been out of the loop so I didn't know if this had been done before.

Hay Stachu c:


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## StachuK1992 (Jan 16, 2015)

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but it feels like this to me: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?36791-Developing-a-better-LL-system


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## Torch (Jan 16, 2015)

4Chan said:


> I recently had dinner with Andrew Kang



Andrew still cubes?


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## 4Chan (Jan 16, 2015)

Yeeeap, that's pretty much it.

I'm embarrassed, but not too surprised that it wasn't original.
In my defense, I asked Weston if this had been done before I posted on here!



Torch said:


> Andrew still cubes?



Nahhh, he's too busy working.


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## StachuK1992 (Jan 16, 2015)

Sorry to make you sad within 5mins of coming back on here.
But at least it was me, an old-timer, and not some n00b, right?


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## ottozing (Jan 16, 2015)

StachuK1992 said:


> Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but it feels like this to me: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?36791-Developing-a-better-LL-system



This is exactly what I thought when reading OP, but with that said I'm very excited to see this get developed


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## 4Chan (Jan 16, 2015)

Thank you! I'm learning bits and bobs per day, and I hope to memorize everything by August!

I'll post an average video when I'm done.


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## Kirjava (Jan 16, 2015)

do you want my documentation?

it's complete but unpublished


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## StachuK1992 (Jan 16, 2015)

Hey Chris, why don't you just go and learn ZBLL? I heard some crazy person did that like YEARS ago.


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## Robert-Y (Jan 16, 2015)

1. Welcome back!

2. Yes it's been done before unfortunately  But I think more algorithm "components" should be included. For example, kirjava didn't include F R U' R' U' R U2 R' U' F'. I think perhaps it's worth researching this again.

Here's one I just found yesterday which is long but is really fast imo: (R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R')(R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') which cancels to: R U2 R' U' R U R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'.


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## waffle=ijm (Jan 16, 2015)

whoaaaaa, good to have you back chris. It's been a while since I saw you back here.


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## 4Chan (Jan 16, 2015)

StachuK1992 said:


> Hey Chris, why don't you just go and learn ZBLL? I heard some crazy person did that like YEARS ago.




LOL, my original plan was to figure out the nicest OLL combinations, and then learn ZBLL with those interspersed throughout, so it won't be too far off!



Kirjava said:


> do you want my documentation?
> 
> it's complete but unpublished



oooOoOhhh, it's pretty satisfying doing the combinations myself, but I'd love to look through your work for nice cases !
Thanks and hay Kirjava 



waffle=ijm said:


> whoaaaaa, good to have you back chris. It's been a while since I saw you back here.



Hay Waffo! It's nice to cube, I'll stick around for a bit longer for sure!



Robert-Y said:


> Here's one I just found yesterday which is long but is really fast imo: (R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R')(R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') which cancels to: R U2 R' U' R U R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'.



Hay Mr.Yau ! Your algs always were the best, I still use the one you gave me with all edges all corners in the right place but twisted. I'll include that one because it's much better than my old case!


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## Kirjava (Jan 16, 2015)

4Chan said:


> oooOoOhhh, it's pretty satisfying doing the combinations myself, but I'd love to look through your work for nice cases !
> Thanks and hay Kirjava



hay 

Try this tool: 2LL

You can modify it with your own alg lists

PM me your email and I'll send you dox.


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## 4Chan (Jan 16, 2015)

Ugh, that interface is SO CLEAN! 

Thank you thank you thank you!


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## Chree (Jan 16, 2015)

This could even be a fun way to learn a ton of cool OLLs. Will you make it obvious which OLL case each alg was originally intended for when you finally catalog all of these?


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## pewpewrawr (Jan 16, 2015)

are you boxxy?!


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## 4Chan (Jan 16, 2015)

Chree said:


> This could even be a fun way to learn a ton of cool OLLs. Will you make it obvious which OLL case each alg was originally intended for when you finally catalog all of these?



Ha, I'll try when I'm done. I'll share some nice cases when I finish my notes and writing everything down. It won't be soon, probably several months.


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## qqwref (Jan 16, 2015)

Oh hey, nice to see you around again


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## 4Chan (Jan 16, 2015)

qqwref said:


> Oh hey, nice to see you around again



Hay qq, everyone's so welcoming, this feels so nice !


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## Ranzha (Jan 16, 2015)

Haven't seen your face around these parts for ages! Glad to see this idea being developed.


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## mDiPalma (Jan 16, 2015)

doing OLL twice instead of doing OLL+PLL?

sounds legit


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## pdilla (Jan 16, 2015)

This is friggen awesome. I can't wait to see both yours and Kirjava's work on this. It'll make learning those funky ZBLLs a lot more joyous.



mDiPalma said:


> doing OLL twice instead of doing OLL+PLL?
> 
> sounds legit



If recog can get as fast as regular LL recog, then the seamless gap between the two OLLs would be faster.


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## IQubic (Jun 24, 2015)

I hate to be a downer, but as much as I like this idea you and me probably use different OLLs. Although two algs might work for the same OLL they will result in a different permutation. As much as this seems cool, I don't want to re-learn my OLLs just to match your pairings.


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## Bindedsa (Jun 24, 2015)

IQubic said:


> I hate to be a downer, but as much as I like this idea you and me probably use different OLLs. Although two algs might work for the same OLL they will result in a different permutation. As much as this seems cool, I don't want to re-learn my OLLs just to match your pairings.



Chris said there are less than 200 algorithms, so it's probably well over 150. So if your not even willing to look at a few new OLLs, why would you think this is for you?


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## irontwig (Jun 24, 2015)

There's really no set amount of algs. It's more of a general approach. Also, I find it quite funny that Chris even commented on the following thread, and then 4 and a half years later decided to call basically the same thing CTLL: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?22254-Idea-for-CFOP-users-learning-ZBLL ...and that was just a obvious extension of Lars' idea which is even older.


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