# CMLLEO... We Want YOUR Help!



## Ross The Boss (Jan 25, 2015)

CMLLEO. Some of you have heard it discussed under the name of KCMLL. It is an approach to Roux in which the corners _and_ EO is solved simultaneously in one alg. Most good Rouxers use some form of EO manipulation during CMLL, such as move canceling at some point to missorient the centers or using a second algorithm to flip edges with the goal of a lower move count. CMLLEO is basically the overachieving big brother to casual edge manipulation.

Is it practical? Maybe. It really does depend on the solvers abilities and preferences. It's similar to the concept of OLLCP: you wouldn't expect most solvers to memorize all of it (though i think a few have), but relatively many have learned a subset or the odd one here or there and it benefits them. 

What is the difference between memorizing the resulting EO of a given case, and learning an algorithm to solve it completely? Technically, not much. R U R' U' R' F R F' M2 U M' U M' is still an algorithm, which can be written into muscle memory and executed rather well, and even those more clunky EOs can be changed through edge manipulation. But, if one is going to go through with step 4A on it's own, it would be best for efficiency to solve 4B at the same time. It would be much more work to memorize each EP case as well. Of course there will be some cases where CMLL + 4A algs will be most efficient, but attempts should be made to find an efficient direct solving alg. 

Anyway, like it or not, its here. And even if I'm the only one working on it, it will be completed eventually. If you have algorithms, post 'em here. Ive got a bunch of F1 worked out which i will post as a reply to this OP here. 

This will become more organized as time goes on, as i expect this to be a pretty gradual process. 

Most of these algs are modds to my standard algs. By counter-slicing here, throwing in a wide there you can get results, but I'm concerned that the similarity between many of the algs my make recall a bit of a bother. Oh well. If anybody has solutions for the incomplete algs or an alternative solution for one of the algs listed, get wit-it .


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## Ross The Boss (Jan 25, 2015)

*F1*

6flip: F R' F R2 U' R' U' R U [R'+M'] F2 (AUF, AMS)

DF + DB flipped: (U') R' F R2 U' L' U2 B U' L R2 F' R
(it looks bad, but i've done it in ~1.3 so it has a bit of potential)

DF + UF flipped: F R' F R2 U' [R'+M'] U' R U r' F2

DF + UL flipped: F R' F R2 U' r' U' R U r' F2

DF + UR flipped: F R' F [r+R] U' r' U' R U R' F2

DF + UB flipped: no idea

DB + UF flipped: no idea

DB + UL flipped: [R+M] U2 R' U' R U' [r'+R'] U2 R U R' U R

DB + UR flipped: F R' F [R2+M] U' R' U' R U r' F2

DB + UB flipped: (M) F R U R' U' R2 U' R' U' R U r' F2

DF + UF + UL + UR flipped: r U2 R' U' R U' R2 U2 R U R' U r

DF + UB + UL + UR flipped: (Y2) [M'+R'] U2 R U R' U R2 U2 R' R U' r'

DF + UL + UF + UB flipped: (U' M' U) r U2 R' U' R U' R2 U2 R U R' U R

DF + UR + UF + UB flipped: (U' M' U) r U2 R' U' R U' R2 U2 R U R' U R

DB + UF + UL + UR flipped: (Y2) r' U2 R U R' U R2 U2 R' U' R U' r'

DB + UB + UL + UR flipped: F R' F [R2+M] U' r' U' R U R' F2

DB + UL + UF + UB flipped: (U M U') r U2 R' U' R U' R2 U2 R U R' U R

DB + UR + UF + UB flipped: (U' M U) r U2 R' U' R U' R2 U2 R U R' U R

And then there are all of those 2flip (and one 4flip) on U cases, but those are all very well documented on Robert Yau's OLLCP table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq2MYrmu606CdFFuallJVFRDQm9FUm44ekoxbDRwQVE#gid=0 . They work to preserve DF+DB, but they are very good none the less.

And then there are all of those 2flip on D + 2flip (and one 4flip) on U, but I have not come across any alg for their solvation.


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## waffle=ijm (Jan 25, 2015)

For now, I wanna say we can focus on getting

no flip
ULUR
UBUF
UFUR
URUB
UBUL
UFUL
4Flip
6flip

The rest are easy to set up M U2 M and the sort.

I'll be doing B1-B3 this week.


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## Ranzha (Jan 25, 2015)

I'm working on H1.


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## Berd (Jan 25, 2015)

Could you just do ollcp for cases where DF and DB are oriented?


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## Smiles (Jan 25, 2015)

Berd said:


> Could you just do ollcp for cases where DF and DB are oriented?



Yes, if you happen to already know the case. But CMLLEO could produce a nicer alg I guess, for the sake of completeness.


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## Berd (Jan 25, 2015)

Smiles said:


> Yes, if you happen to already know the case. But CMLLEO could produce a nicer alg I guess, for the sake of completeness.


It's preserving the same thing?


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## obelisk477 (Jan 25, 2015)

Berd said:


> It's preserving the same thing?



But you can use M-slice, which may be quicker


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## Berd (Jan 25, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> But you can use M-slice, which may be quicker


O yeh I see thanks.


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## Kirjava (Feb 4, 2015)

Often the easy case is better than having EO solved for good lookahead. you should aim for that instead of EO solved (it's easier too)

You should be as haxy as possible for covering more cases to make it more easily learnable.

We thought that CLLEO was going to be a thing a few years ago, but it really isn't. You should just be learning CMLL masterfully and learning how to manipulate edge orientation and permutation instead.


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## StachuK1992 (Feb 4, 2015)

How many cases are there? Upper bound of 42 * 2^5?


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## Ross The Boss (Feb 4, 2015)

Kirjava said:


> Often the easy case is better than having EO solved for good lookahead. you should aim for that instead of EO solved (it's easier too)
> 
> You should be as haxy as possible for covering more cases to make it more easily learnable.
> 
> We thought that CLLEO was going to be a thing a few years ago, but it really isn't. You should just be learning CMLL masterfully and learning how to manipulate edge orientation and permutation instead.



ya, i agree with this but it's still nice to have the alg set. you know, for those people who disagree. also i like messing around with stupid stuff like this =P. 


and i have decided that it is honestly pointless to deal with those cases that have flipped edges on the bottom; so easy to figure them (most of them) out intuitively that documentation inst worth it. so the amount of cases is the same as ollcp, 330 according to the wiki.


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## GuRoux (Feb 4, 2015)

Ross The Boss said:


> ya, i agree with this but it's still nice to have the alg set. you know, for those people who disagree. also i like messing around with stupid stuff like this =P.
> 
> 
> and i have decided that it is honestly pointless to deal with those cases that have flipped edges on the bottom; so easy to figure them (most of them) out intuitively that documentation inst worth it. so the amount of cases is the same as ollcp, 330 according to the wiki.



but you have to add 6 flip.


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## irontwig (Feb 4, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> but you have to add 6 flip.



fruruf coll mum?


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## obelisk477 (Feb 4, 2015)

irontwig said:


> fruruf coll mum?



only on speedsolving.com is this an intelligible question


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## GuRoux (Feb 4, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> only on speedsolving.com is this an intelligible question



i actually don't know what this is asking.


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## obelisk477 (Feb 5, 2015)

GuRoux said:


> i actually don't know what this is asking.



I said intelligible, not intelligent


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## PenguinsDontFly (Feb 5, 2015)

Wait...what?


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## GuRoux (Feb 5, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> I said intelligible, not intelligent



i know, i'm saying i can't understand what he is asking.


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