# My Lecture to Beginning Cubers



## yockee (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok, so since all these super crazy cubes are all being released and "newer" cubers don't seem to know about any cubes BUT these, I figured I'd post this here to let them see why I think it's a big mistake for them to worry about such advanced cubes in the beginning stages. There are many DIY's much more suited for beginners, but they never seem to hear about them because all that goes around is what's new, so here it is. And yes, this video is pretty old.


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## Edward (Jul 17, 2011)

Why are there DIY's suited for beginners? 
Why can't babbys first cube be the newest and greatest thing? I don't see a problem with a beginner using a good cube to learn :u


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## yockee (Jul 17, 2011)

I explain it in the video. These new cubes allow you to do things you normally can't do, so your times aren't "really" that good. They will only be good with a good cube. If you try to use a normal cube, you'll see you don't really have the accuracy and skill because you're used to cubes that mask regular problems. Also, there is the problem of these new cubes being too hard to control. I just think it's better to start out a beginner.


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## JyH (Jul 17, 2011)

Awesome! :tu
Listened to the entire thing while practicing.


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## Edward (Jul 17, 2011)

yockee said:


> I explain it in the video. These new cubes allow you to do things you normally can't do, so your times aren't "really" that good. They will only be good with a good cube. If you try to use a normal cube, you'll see you don't really have the accuracy and skill because you're used to cubes that mask regular problems. Also, there is the problem of these new cubes being too hard to control. I just think it's better to start out a beginner.


 
If they're harder to control at first, as a beginner, wouldn't you need to develop good accuracy and skill to even use the cube correctly? 
I don't think they "mask problems" unless you've come from cubes where the problems exist
That's the only part I disagree with though. Great video


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## yockee (Jul 17, 2011)

Edward said:


> If they're harder to control at first, as a beginner, wouldn't you need to develop good accuracy and skill to even use the cube correctly?
> I don't think they "mask problems" unless you've come from cubes where the problems exist
> That's the only part I disagree with though. Great video


 
Well, I would only assume that most people start out with a storebought, but it seems lately that, that is either incorrect, or for a very short time, as most new cubers seem to start cubing because of a review on an awesome cube, etc. Thanks though, dude!


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## Jostle (Jul 17, 2011)

Hmm, I used a storebought for a long time. However, a newish or not well broken in storebought can be really horrible. I noticed that the FII is a pretty good alternative. My friend is learning on one, it's actually going pretty well. He's learning 4LLL atm.
That was a little offtopic but sure.


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## Erzz (Jul 17, 2011)

My first DIY was a green Alpha-I. It's pretty worn out now, it can corner cut almost at 45 and reverse corner cut around 10 degrees. Almost as fast as my GuHong too. When I first got it though, the corner cutting was much worse, which made me a more accurate turner. Now, I prefer cubes such as the Alpha-V and mf8 Legend over the DaYan cubes. I'm not sure if it's the turning style of the cubes, or the feeling, or what, but I still find it strange.

Turning accurately also lets me set my cube tensions much looser. At the competition I went to, every person who tried my cubes popped them, even though I very rarely pop them myself. My friends have also commented that my cubes feel like they are going to fall apart in their hands, though I don't feel that way.


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## yockee (Jul 17, 2011)

Erzz said:


> My first DIY was a green Alpha-I. It's pretty worn out now, it can corner cut almost at 45 and reverse corner cut around 10 degrees. Almost as fast as my GuHong too. When I first got it though, the corner cutting was much worse, which made me a more accurate turner. Now, I prefer cubes such as the Alpha-V and mf8 Legend over the DaYan cubes. I'm not sure if it's the turning style of the cubes, or the feeling, or what, but I still find it strange.
> 
> Turning accurately also lets me set my cube tensions much looser. At the competition I went to, every person who tried my cubes popped them, even though I very rarely pop them myself. My friends have also commented that my cubes feel like they are going to fall apart in their hands, though I don't feel that way.


 
My A1 sucks. It can corner cut 45 with ease, though no reverse cutting. You must have one of the 2007 A1's if it's that fast! I have one of the 09's and it is just slow like a C4U cube. You just can't be an accurate turner if your first cube is a Gu Hong or Zhan Chi. I guess it won't matter if you never ever use another cube, ever, but it's good to have the ability to solve any cube just as fast as the best cubes.


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## fiftyniner (Jul 17, 2011)

Afraid I've to disagree. 
IMO, there is no 'advanced' cube. Just tighten it to the point where you are comfortable with it, beginners or advanced cubers.
(There are crap cubes of course)


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## yockee (Jul 17, 2011)

fiftyniner said:


> Afraid I've to disagree.
> IMO, there is no 'advanced' cube. Just tighten it to the point where you are comfortable with it, beginners or advanced cubers.
> (There are crap cubes of course)


 
By advanced cubes, what I mean is that cubes like the Dayan series, the MF8 legend, and other fast cubes, can be very difficult to control. Sure, you can tighten them, but you can only tighten them so much before there just isn't a point in using the cube because it's designed to have the special features be used, and if tensioned too tightly, you can't really use them how they're meant to be used, if you know what I mean. If you need to tighten a cube that much just to be able to control it, you might as well just use a cube that doesn't cause such problems. You have to think about it. Even if you can control a Dayan cube, you still won't really build the turning accuracy that you would with a normal cube, so you'll only have good times with a Dayan, as where if you start with a normal cube and build that skill, you'll be even better when you switch to the Dayan or other good cube, and you'll get more out of it. If you start with a good cube and get your times down to, let's say, sub 30, you might just hit a dead end, whereas if you became sub 30 with a type C and switch, your times will show great improvement!


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## sauso (Jul 17, 2011)

i used a store brought cube for a good 2 years before moving to a guhong and i believe it made me a better cuber. with store brought cubes you have to be precise as corner cuts are pretty much impossible. When i moved to my speed cube i dropped about 10 seconds off my average.


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## hammerhead (Jul 17, 2011)

It was nice to see you calm in a video, and I thought it was a great lesson :]

I like to look at where I am in cubing and how I followed almost exactly what you said in how you should progress with cubes. The only thing that I was confused about, is when you said you kind of said that once you pull your hair learning full fridrich's, and are about sub40, THEN get a GuHong? When I was consistant sub1, I got myself an f-II, and used that until I averaged sub-30. I thought you missed the topic of intermediate cubes a little.

When I was averaging sub-30 was a time where I was about halfway done with full PLL and knew my 2L-OLL, and right before I finished full PLL, I got an ultimate, and I think it really played a part in picking up speed. I think a cube like a GuHong is necessary when you average 20-30 seconds, because this is where execution of algorithms and the smooth flow of a solve becomes more important. And it was great because the GuHong helped me THEN and it doesn't fail me now when my Ao100 is 18 seconds.

I followed the basic path you said in your video(beside my slightly different opinions), and I managed to get sub-20 in about 7 months. Not bad, I'd say.


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## Tao Yu (Jul 17, 2011)

Okay i admit I haven't watched the video but...
I quite agree with what you are saying in your description of the vid because I often see 30-40s solves with a guhong or an haiyan memory and I think to myself "you don't need a guhong to reach that TPS". I got my first sub 15 with a storebought I later got sub 20 avg with ghosthand and sub 15 avg with an A-V.
I think there is no set time to change. You should change when you feel your cube is limiting you.
so basically method>hardware


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## Kirjava (Jul 17, 2011)

You're recommending to use a Type C or an old Type A cube before you move onto a Guhong or whatever.

There was a time when people advocated using a storebought before moving onto a Type C because you won't be used to it. 

Maybe there'll be a time when beginners are told they should get used to using a Guhong before moving onto the latest high end cube.

Ho hum.

EDIT:

In your example solve at the end you did R U' l U' R' U x R' d' R U R' to solve two pairs which contains 'an algorithm you learned'. R2 U R' U' B' R2 B is much better and was found by intuition. Algs are great, but intuition is powerful ****.


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## fiftyniner (Jul 17, 2011)

yockee said:


> ...Even if you can control a Dayan cube, you still won't really build the turning accuracy that you would with a normal cube



'accuracy' was a necessity back in the pre-dayan days. If cubes hardware is progressing towards guhong-like, 'accuracy' may become a redundant technique. 

We may be asking our young cubers to acquire skills that are outdated. 

Just my 2 cents as an old timer who had previously learnt accuracy using storeboughts, A2 and rubiks DIYs.


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## yockee (Jul 17, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> In your example solve at the end you did R U' l U' R' U x R' d' R U R' to solve two pairs which contains 'an algorithm you learned'. R2 U R' U' B' R2 B is much better and was found by intuition. Algs are great, but intuition is powerful ****.


 
I'm not sure which pairs you're talking about. I'll have to go check this out, although, I never use F or B moves in F2L, so I more than likely wouldn't have figured this out.... Oh wait, I know which pair you mean. The one where it's in the slot, but upside-down. I'll have to try your way. I really like the alg I use there because the "l" move tilts the cube toward you, and gives you a view of the entire cube, including the back, without really doing a rotation, but I know what you mean.


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## dieguito (Jul 17, 2011)

wow... this was amazing... It's a pity I didn't watch this before... now I'm a bit stuck and struggling to get my times down... I do Fridrich F2L and 2-look OLL & PLL and I average about 50 seconds... I started with fridrich almost right away... I learned from Dan Brown's tutorial and after a few months I was already watching Fridrich F2L tutorials and stuff... In Argentina you just can't find any "storebought" I mean, I live in Buenos Aires, and I don't know if you've ever heard of it but it's bloody huge... I tried to find a bloody storebought and I couldn't... I searched all over for it but I couldn't find one... I ended up buying a Ghost Hand II 3x3 in cubedepot...
Oh well... I guess I'll continue to practice. thanks a lot!


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## Kirjava (Jul 17, 2011)

yockee said:


> I never use F or B moves in F2L


 
nub


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## choza244 (Jul 17, 2011)

I think that is a bad idea to learn F2L algs before you learn to do it intuitively, I agree that algs can change the way you see the F2L but if you learn them before you can do it intuitively you wont understand what you are doing with the algs, you will do them like automatically, but if you learn them just after you can do a good intuitive F2L you will see and understand how the algs work and how you can adapt them to your "intuitive F2L"


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## JyH (Jul 17, 2011)

yockee said:


> F or B moves in F2L



F' R U R' U' R' F R


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## Bapao (Jul 17, 2011)

I used my store bought for a month before I got my first GuHong. When I got the GuHong, I couldn't even use it because my finger joints were killing me. I only had to look at a cube, and my hands would start hurting. Using the store bought put me out of business for about a month and nearly put me off cubing altogether because it was also influencing my guitar practice.

Since I dumped the store bought, I have no problems with pain what so ever.

I get what you mean though, you're suggesting optimization before moving on. But a store bought can really mess up your hands if you use it as much as a beginner would.


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## Cyrus C. (Jul 17, 2011)

JyH said:


> F' R U R' U' R' F R


 
R' U' R' U' R' U R U R


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## Godmil (Jul 17, 2011)

yockee said:


> These new cubes allow you to do things you normally can't do, so your times aren't "really" that good. They will only be good with a good cube. If you try to use a normal cube, you'll see you don't really have the accuracy and skill because you're used to cubes that mask regular problems.


 
I completely agree, far too many beginners are starting out with advanced cubes (which are designed to be really stable and require high degrees of turning skill, Rubik's etc.). It gives a false illusion of skill. Give one of these guys a normal speedcube (say a Dayan) and they just dont know how to control it. I think beginners should use a standard cube from the very beginning (such as a GuHong). That way they develop good form and technique for handling cubes, then when they've got the basics down and start to get faster they can move onto an advanced cube like a Rubik's DIY.


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## michaelfivez (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't really agree, you can start learning F2L fast.
I started recently (april) and I see all these 'old-scool' cubers talking about 'years' before they got sub 30 and stuff, but nowadays with all those tutorials you can get faster fast.

2 days after I started cubing I averaged 1.30s and I started learning F2L. 1 week after I started I started with 4LL, I finished it 2 days later (I averaged 1 min). Then I immediately started full PLL wich I finsihed about 2 weeks later, at that time I bought a Guhong. At the start of may I averaged 40 seconds, Near the end about 32-33 sec. In the middle/end of June I averaged 27 sec, now I average 23-25.
It really goes faster nowadays.

I do practice 5 hours a day regularly tough (essentiatly almost every second I'm not with friends/working/sleeping)


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## yockee (Jul 17, 2011)

choza244 said:


> I think that is a bad idea to learn F2L algs before you learn to do it intuitively, I agree that algs can change the way you see the F2L but if you learn them before you can do it intuitively you wont understand what you are doing with the algs, you will do them like automatically, but if you learn them just after you can do a good intuitive F2L you will see and understand how the algs work and how you can adapt them to your "intuitive F2L"


 
I can see why people say this, but the reason I think it's better doing it the other way around is because, in my example, if I had tried to start intuitively, it would have taken much longer as I really knew nothing at all about F2L, and really would have come up with some horrible ways of inserting the pairs. By learning algs first, it showed me what I was really supposed to be doing, and once I understood a little more, I changed most of the algs to faster ways of inserting pairs. It was pretty automatic with the algs, and that is what made me realize that it was so much slower than it needed to be. Now, I'm really comfortable with my F2L and looking ahead is more my main concern. I progress a little at a time, but I at least am aware of what I'm doing wrong, rather than having to ask the same question all the time. "How do I get faster?" etc.


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## yockee (Jul 17, 2011)

b4p4076 said:


> I used my store bought for a month before I got my first GuHong. When I got the GuHong, I couldn't even use it because my finger joints were killing me. I only had to look at a cube, and my hands would start hurting. Using the store bought put me out of business for about a month and nearly put me off cubing altogether because it was also influencing my guitar practice.
> 
> Since I dumped the store bought, I have no problems with pain what so ever.
> 
> I get what you mean though, you're suggesting optimization before moving on. But a store bought can really mess up your hands if you use it as much as a beginner would.


 
Usually, it would suck, but my storebought, as you can see in the video (when I show it, not the cube I use for the examples) is better than a lot of DIYs!!


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## yockee (Jul 17, 2011)

Godmil said:


> I completely agree, far too many beginners are starting out with advanced cubes (which are designed to be really stable and require high degrees of turning skill, Rubik's etc.). It gives a false illusion of skill. Give one of these guys a normal speedcube (say a Dayan) and they just dont know how to control it. I think beginners should use a standard cube from the very beginning (such as a GuHong). That way they develop good form and technique for handling cubes, then when they've got the basics down and start to get faster they can move onto an advanced cube like a Rubik's DIY.


 
Hahahaha, I can't tell if you're making fun of what I'm saying, or agreeing with me, saying how backwards people are.


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