# The Event Debate Thread



## Sub1Hour (Jun 25, 2020)

We have had debate threads on methods and companies, now we have one about the official WCA Events!

Everyone has their opinions on the 17 WCA events, and here is a place to discuss them. From which events are the worst, to which are the hardest, to which are the most fun, all of these topics and more can be discussed in this thread


Why don't I start off with a very controversial opinion, _*6x6 is the best speedsolving NxN Event*_


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## MJS Cubing (Jun 25, 2020)

False. 5x5 is the best because triple parity isn't a thing on 5x5


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 25, 2020)

MJS Cubing said:


> False. 5x5 is the best because triple parity isn't a thing on 5x5


5x5 is not as good as 6x6 for a few reasons

1. The centers aren't very complex. 6x6 has debatably the most complex centers due to a lack of true centers, so you can do a lot more fancy stuff on 6x6 and 7x7 then on 5x5, so it limits your options
2. The centers don't matter. Your solve can have very crappy centers but as long as you have good edges it will be fine. This technically applies to 6x6 but since centers are a giant portion of the solve compared to 5x5, so if your centers are bad, its very hard to save the solve
3. The edges are more complex. Like Centers, there is much more you can do to save time/m6oves with 6x6 edges compared to 5x5 edges, they also don't have a "Center Edge" so they can be built a little more freely than 5x5 edges
4. Triple parity can be reduced to double parity if you are smart with your edge pairing. 6x6 technically has triple parity, but if you actually try it's very easy to reduce it to double parity, Just make sure that your edge with parity on it is in your LL, then once you get to LL you can recognize whether the Midges or Wings have parity


Also, 7x7 is worse than 6x6 because its has all of the same things but with true centers, which limit the freedom of your solving, and therefore it prevents you from doing some tricks to save on moves/time.


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## Dylan Swarts (Jun 25, 2020)

Okay so, I said 5x5. To be completely honest, there probably is not a 'best event'. Some factors narrow the 17 event list down but from there it is opinion. But ignoring this fact.
If we are going to look at the best events, I would assume we need to look at a few things. Difficulty of hosting it, spectator friendliness, and then a bunch of things about the event: time it take to solve for intermediate - advanced solvers, complexity and whatever else you think (lol)

So why 5x5?

It's not really a problem to host, scrambling is easy too
If you put enough practice in, you should be like sub 3 or faster, so it does not take super long to solve.
You have that nice solving experience of big cubes, but you also have everything about 3x3 actually.
yEah

I was lying, multi is obviously the best event, its the most spectator friendly event ever, its challenging to git gud, I could go on.


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## Micah Morrison (Jun 25, 2020)

6x6 is probably a great event but I can't seem to enjoy it very much because my shadow M is so sluggish, and I'm still waiting for my MGC.


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## VIBE_ZT (Jun 25, 2020)

Okay, so originally when I tried to answer this, I went with a few key points that I thought could make a puzzle/event good.

Those were:

Solving time (too fast? Too slow?)
How much can be done on the puzzle? As in, what options are there for turning and for moving pieces?
How complex is the event?
Is it based on luck? Or is there a lot of learning and skill needed to do it?
Is there room for improvement in this event?
If we follow these guidelines that I have myself, then in my opinion that leaves:

3x3, 4x4, 5x5, 6x6, and Megaminx.

.....I have thought for a long time and I have not been able to take away any event from this list, even if I really wanted to.

Now, this is not about what events I like or hate. If that were the case, then Skewb would be on this list too. 

So yeah. I think these are the best events.... But idk which is THE best.


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## Owen Morrison (Jun 25, 2020)

VIBE_ZT said:


> Okay, so originally when I tried to answer this, I went with a few key points that I thought could make a puzzle/event good.
> 
> Those were:
> 
> ...


how do those guidelines not allow blind?


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## I'm A Cuber (Jun 26, 2020)

Why am I the only one who said 3x3?


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## dudefaceguy (Jun 26, 2020)

Dylan Swarts said:


> Okay so, I said 5x5. To be completely honest, there probably is not a 'best event'. Some factors narrow the 17 event list down but from there it is opinion. But ignoring this fact.
> If we are going to look at the best events, I would assume we need to look at a few things. Difficulty of hosting it, spectator friendliness, and then a bunch of things about the event: time it take to solve for intermediate - advanced solvers, complexity and whatever else you think (lol)
> 
> So why 5x5?
> ...


I also think MBLD is the "best" event purely based on challenge and fun for me. But I voted for 3BLD because it's more accessible generally, and I get to actually do it a lot more often than MBLD. Basically, 3BLD is almost as good/fun/cool as MBLD but it's a whole lot more convenient.


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 26, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> Why am I the only one who said 3x3?


Because 3x3 is extremely vanilla. Its got good qualities, but those qualities are amplified in other events. For example, megaminx is basically a 3x3 that has been on roids for 4 years. It takes every quality of 3x3 and turns it up to the max. 3x3 is a lot of people's favorite event, but very few people consider it the best event since its hardly unique at all compared to stuff like clock and squan.


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## xyzzy (Jun 26, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Why don't I start off with a very controversial opinion, _*6x6 is the best speedsolving NxN Event*_


My very controversial counteropinion is _*can you please stop doing this big bold italics thing?*_


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## PetrusQuber (Jun 26, 2020)

3x3 is best, it’s classic.

It doesn’t take too long to solve, and it’s not over in the blink of an eye like with 2x2 or Skewb. Depending on your method it can be very intuitive or algorithmic.


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 26, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> My very controversial counteropinion is _*can you please stop doing this big bold italics thing?*_


_*no


Spoiler



just a prank bro


*_


PetrusQuber said:


> 3x3 is best, it’s classic.
> 
> It doesn’t take too long to solve, and it’s not over in the blink of an eye like with 2x2 or Skewb. Depending on your method it can be very intuitive or algorithmic.


Eh, I could say the same thing about other events that are more unique. I'm a little biased though since 3x3 has never been my favorite/main event in my entire cubing career since I have preferred unique events like square-1 and big cubes. 3x3 has amazing qualities as you mentioned but if you give me 1 quality you like about 3x3 I will give you an event that does it better or has more of it. For example, you like the speed of the event. Square-1 is an event that takes around the same amount of time as long as you try and get fast, and I think that they have similar limits in terms of what the fastest WR will be ever.


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## PetrusQuber (Jun 26, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> _*no
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


And I also like the simplicity, straightforwardness, and few algs.
IDK though really, I’m biased towards 3x3 as well.

I generally don’t enter into debates but why not ¯\_ (ツ) _/¯


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## dudefaceguy (Jun 26, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> _*no
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Yeah, I think there is an important distinction is between 3x3 as a puzzle and 3x3 as an event. As a puzzle, 3x3 is amazing -- we get 5 events out of that one puzzle! But the "regular" 3x3 speed solving WCA event is only one thing you can do with this amazing puzzle. And even though there are a lot of really cool and fun ways to solve a 3x3, only a few are viable in this event, since the only goal is speed. Other events that use 3x3s, like FMC and blind events, use other aspects of cubing knowledge besides just recognizing patterns and applying algorithms. And of course, there are a lot of fun things you can do with a 3x3 that are not captured in any WCA events (linear FMC for example).


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## Owen Morrison (Jun 26, 2020)

IMO Megaminx is just 3x3 but better because it is longer, less luck based, and you have tons of freedom.


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## I'm A Cuber (Jun 26, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> IMO Megaminx is just 3x3 but better because it is longer, less luck based, and you have tons of freedom.


IMO Megaminx is just 3x3 but worse because it is longer, less luck based, and you have tons of freedom.


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## Etotheipi (Jun 26, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> IMO Megaminx is just 3x3 but better because it is longer, less luck based, and you have tons of freedom.





I'm A Cuber said:


> IMO Megaminx is just 3x3 but worse because it is longer, less luck based, and you have tons of freedom.


Hence the IMO.


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## Nmile7300 (Jun 26, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> IMO Megaminx is just 3x3 but worse because it is longer, less luck based, and you have tons of freedom.


Just curious, how is less luck and more freedom a bad thing?


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## Spacey10 (Jun 26, 2020)

Definitely cloncc
jk
I picked 4BLD because I saw Stanley Chapel about to break the WR, until he got a pop, and started to swim on the floor.
such fun


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## VIBE_ZT (Jun 27, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> how do those guidelines not allow blind?


.......im gonna be honest with you, I forgot that blind existed when I wrote this haha


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## BenChristman1 (Jun 27, 2020)

My favorite event and the best event are 2 different things. 2x2 is my favorite event because it is so quick. You can grind through hundreds of solves in a couple hours. I think that the best event overall is either 4x4 or 5x5, but I'm leaning towards 5x5 because of double parity on 4x4.



VIBE_ZT said:


> Solving time (too fast? Too slow?)
> How much can be done on the puzzle? As in, what options are there for turning and for moving pieces?
> How complex is the event?
> Is it based on luck? Or is there a lot of learning and skill needed to do it?
> Is there room for improvement in this event?


Going by these qualifications:
1. There are a lot of people who average under 1 minute, so it is a spectator-friendly event (assuming you're watching high-level solvers).
2. There are a decent amount of options, though as @Sub1Hour said, a lot more can be done on 6x6 and 7x7 centers than 5x5 centers, but L2C and L2E on 5x5 are simple enough that they can be done algorithmically pretty easy.
3. It is more on the complex level as far as speedsolving events go, but nothing compared to the big blinds. It isn't something that most new competitors will be competing in in their first competition, but maybe after 2-3 comps.
4. There is absolutely no luck, because there is a very slim chance that there will be a center already done, like on Max Park's former 4x4 WR single.
5. I think that there is a lot of room for improvement in almost every event (except for things like 2x2, pyraminx, and skewb singles).


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 27, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> My favorite event and the best event are 2 different things. 2x2 is my favorite event because it is so quick. You can grind through hundreds of solves in a couple hours. I think that the best event overall is either 4x4 or 5x5, but I'm leaning towards 5x5 because of double parity on 4x4.
> 
> 
> Going by these qualifications:
> ...


Wow, that's actually a fantastic case for 5x5! It's one of my favorite events, probably ranked 5 now though but in my first year of cubing it was definitely my best and favorite event. I'll go through the same qualifications specified by @VIBE_ZT but for 6x6

1. Depending on who does it, it doesn't take up a ton of time, although inexperienced solvers can take over 4 minutes which isn't great
2. There are probably more options for centers and possibly for edges on 6x6 than any other event since its the biggest without a defined true center. That way you aren't forced to solve into a certain orientation or color scheme, so you can take advantage of huge blocks a little easier. Not to mention that makes the process harder for centers than on 7x7 since the color scheme should be taken into account most of the time, although in a few cases doing the wrong color scheme and then fixing it later can save a lot of time.
3. Megaminx and 7x7 are the only speedsolving events that I would consider to be just as complex or more complex. Megaminx is definitely the most complex speedsolving event in my opinion with 6 and 7 right behind. I don't think that the complexity of 6x6 can be compared to stuff like Bld and FMC since they are complex in a different way than your normal speedsolving events. So in terms of complexity 6x6 is one of the highest in the WCA
4. Luck is only a factor during the first center. But what I like the most about 6x6 is that you can "manipulate luck" in your favor. It's very easy to manipulate future cases to be "lucky" on 6x6, but it doesn't even come close to the effectiveness of doing this technique on square-1.
5. There is so much room for improvement in 6x6. The world record has been dropping quickly ever since Max came on the scene, and there are people like Nahm, Arian, and Ciarán that are also improving very quickly, not to mention the leaps in hardware we have seen recently from the Shadow and almighty MGC.


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## I'm A Cuber (Jun 28, 2020)

Nmile7300 said:


> Just curious, how is less luck and more freedom a bad thing?


Because there is no way I could average 2 minutes and get a 1:15 single. Everything in the solve is based on how I perform. Also, while you have more freedom, that comes at the cost of needing extremely good look ahead, which is something that I don’t have.


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## Owen Morrison (Jun 28, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> Because there is no way I could average 2 minutes and get a 1:15 single. Everything in the solve is based on how I perform.


I actually really like that part of Megaminx.


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## Nmile7300 (Jun 28, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> Because there is no way I could average 2 minutes and get a 1:15 single. Everything in the solve is based on how I perform. Also, while you have more freedom, that comes at the cost of needing extremely good look ahead, which is something that I don’t have.


 It is perfectly okay to dislike something because you aren't good at it. It's just your opinion, and as long as you don't use that as an objective argument, you're fine.


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## brododragon (Jun 28, 2020)

I think square one because it's unique, a bit brain-breaking, yet simple after a while.


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## Nmile7300 (Jun 28, 2020)

I think that the only thing Square-1 doesn't have going for it is that it is pretty alg-based.


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 28, 2020)

I'm A Cuber said:


> Because there is no way I could average 2 minutes and get a 1:15 single. Everything in the solve is based on how I perform. Also, while you have more freedom, that comes at the cost of needing extremely good look ahead, which is something that I don’t have.





Owen Morrison said:


> I actually really like that part of Megaminx.


I also really like that part of 6x6 and 7x7 as well. It feels like you really earned your time instead of just having a wacky scramble



brododragon said:


> I think square one because it's unique, a bit brain-breaking, yet simple after a while.



YES! This is why I love square-1 so much! It's by far the most unique event in the WCA along with clock and people simply overlook it because it's so much different from any other event out there. The only event that algs work on square-1 is 2x2, and even then that's only 2-3 PBL algorithms. Square-1 is totally separate from every other event, pretty much the opposite of 5x5, 6x6, and 7x7. On 5-7, if you are great at one, you are almost guaranteed to be good at the rest, but with square-1 there is not a single puzzle in the WCA that has this effect. Your square-1 times are completely separate from the rest of your times in other events, so you don't need to be good at anything else to become world-class at square-1. Another thing that I absolutely love about square-1 is misalignments. In no other event does making a slight move make such a difference in your times. It really rewards you for knowing what your algs do to which pieces and using that to your advantage to force skips and good cases.



Nmile7300 said:


> I think that the only thing Square-1 doesn't have going for it is that it is pretty alg-based.



Well, its alg based that's for sure, but in a completely different way to things like 2x2. If you want to be world-class at square-1, it helps to learn some massive alg sets like OBL and PBL, but it's not completely necessary to unlike 2x2 where if you don't learn a ton of algs you won't be on top. You can actually mitigate how alg based the puzzle is by using misalignments to your advantage as I said earlier. If I asked you what pieces go where on a random OLL, would you be able to tell me? No, you probably wouldn't since that doesn't help you during speedsolves aside from knowing AUF, something that has instant recognition. Now, on just about every single algorithm that I know on square-1, I can definitely tell you what it does to the entire puzzle (excluding CSP because its very different from the other alg sets). Not only is this useful, but it's game-changing. You can force all different kinds of cool skips and good cases! I can tell you right now that at the speed I am at with square-1, my alg knowledge is abysmal, but because I know my way around every single alg I use, I can definitely hide that weakness. Sure, it could be argued that its the most alg based event, but you sure can get away with learning only a few!


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## brododragon (Jun 28, 2020)

Nmile7300 said:


> I think that the only thing Square-1 doesn't have going for it is that it is pretty alg-based.


I kinda like alg-based. It's makes for a nice, smooth solve, and, because it's so alg-based, you can influence things pretty easily. Also, CS and CO even it out.


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## Q-- (Jun 28, 2020)

Square-1 affects your 3x3 turning style a lot too, I execute an Nb perm faster than Ja. Square-1 caught my interest almost as soon as I got into cubing because of how unique it is. It’s also a bit underrated in my opinion and has a lot of room to grow (especially because I want to see if OBL will ever be viable).


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## Sub1Hour (Jun 28, 2020)

Q-- said:


> Square-1 affects your 3x3 turning style a lot too, I execute an Nb perm faster than Ja. Square-1 caught my interest almost as soon as I got into cubing because of how unique it is. It’s also a bit underrated in my opinion and has a lot of room to grow (especially because I want to see if OBL will ever be viable).


I do find RUD algorithms on 3x3 (Especially GA and GD) to be extremely fast on 3x3 due to my experience with square-1. Also, if you are wondering of OBL is going to be viable or not, my boy Calvin Nielson is making a trainer specifically for OBL and I think that it could be viable, especially with someone as skilled as he is working on it.


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## Sub1Hour (Jul 12, 2020)

Now that we have the Shengshou Clock out and the Qiyi clock on its way (hopefully for real this time), what are your guy's predictions on clock as an event. I for one think that it will be less hated then skewb by the forum members, but still more hated then pyra. The average cuber will now have more accessibility to clock as an event as well, since I'm assuming that the Shengshou and Qiyi clock probably won't spontaneously become illegal for 1 reason or another, IE: gear skips or pins not staying in place.


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## Hazel (Jul 12, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Now that we have the Shengshou Clock out and the Qiyi clock on its way (hopefully for real this time), what are your guy's predictions on clock as an event. I for one think that it will be less hated then skewb by the forum members, but still more hated then pyra. The average cuber will now have more accessibility to clock as an event as well, since I'm assuming that the Shengshou and Qiyi clock probably won't spontaneously become illegal for 1 reason or another, IE: gear skips or pins not staying in place.


I think it'll become slightly more mainstream, but I think Skewb will remain more popular. Most people seem to like Skewb from what I've seen.


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## Sub1Hour (Jul 12, 2020)

Aerma said:


> I think it'll become slightly more mainstream, but I think Skewb will remain more popular. Most people seem to like Skewb from what I've seen.


I find that there are more competitors in skewb, but at least in my area people aren't too high on the event. At least people that are decently fast. There seems to be some sort of pattern or phase or whatever in beginner cubers where they really like pyraminx and skewb, and as they get faster they hate the event more and more. People constantly make fun of "Skweeb" and pyraminx at high levels in my state, mostly since no one is really all that good at the events. The only reason why I scheduled pyraminx at my first comp (which unfortunately hasn't happened yet) is that the delegate told me to since it had been over 8 months since Pyra was last held. Now I'm thinking that clock will go the way square-1 did, where it becomes very popular very quickly, but I don't think it will grow to the degree that squan did in 2016.


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## GenTheThief (Jul 12, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Now that we have the Shengshou Clock out and the Qiyi clock on its way (hopefully for real this time), what are your guy's predictions on clock as an event. I for one think that it will be less hated then skewb by the forum members, but still more hated then pyra. The average cuber will now have more accessibility to clock as an event as well, since I'm assuming that the Shengshou and Qiyi clock probably won't spontaneously become illegal for 1 reason or another, IE: gear skips or pins not staying in place.


I think that just like Feet, once a change happens that allows the event to become more popular and more world records to be broken it will get removed from the WCA.


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## Q-- (Jul 12, 2020)

GenTheThief said:


> I think that just like Feet, once a change happens that allows the event to become more popular and more world records to be broken it will get removed from the WCA.


What change happened with feet before it got removed? I remember all the records dropped really quickly but I don’t know why.


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## Nmile7300 (Jul 12, 2020)

It became an ao5 right


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## Sub1Hour (Jul 27, 2020)

Nmile7300 said:


> It became an ao5 right


Yes, I also think that they allowed inspection with hands too in that change but I'm not sure. Its a shame that it was removed though, since it was extremely unique and was the only event where +2's were a legitimate strat (excluding DNF avoidance on M2 since you can just do an L2 and take the +2 instead of risking a DNF, which is also why +2's in BLD shouldn't exist).


GenTheThief said:


> I think that just like Feet, once a change happens that allows the event to become more popular and more world records to be broken it will get removed from the WCA.


I'm hoping that the WCA learns their lesson with the removal of feet and actually let the community decide if it was removed, not a Board of people that had only 1 member that did feet. I understand that making a survey for all of the different languages would be hard, but I thought it was quite clear most people were against the removal of feet.


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## CyoobietheCuber (Jul 27, 2020)

The only problem with feet as I see it is sanitation. But it's feet. Just accept that it is feet. Pretty cool event though.


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## Username: Username: (Jul 28, 2020)

CyoobietheCuber said:


> The only problem with feet as I see it is sanitation. But it's feet. Just accept that it is feet. Pretty cool event though.


The problem is that feet's more cleaner than hands, we get alot more germs cause we touch alot of stuff. Just accept that.


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## LukasCubes (Jul 7, 2022)

might as well debate

2x2 should be removed from the wca as an event for the same reasons magic and master magic got removed. The WRs are getting too fast and I dont want to see sub-0.3 avg of 5s by people.


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## Luke Solves Cubes (Jul 7, 2022)

LukasCubes said:


> might as well debate
> 
> 2x2 should be removed from the wca as an event for the same reasons magic and master magic got removed. The WRs are getting too fast and I dont want to see sub-0.3 avg of 5s by people.


That sub 0.3 average of 5 is never going to happen, It is hard to sub 0.3 a four mover even if you optimize fingertricks and know the solution.


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## gsingh (Jul 7, 2022)

LukasCubes said:


> might as well debate
> 
> 2x2 should be removed from the wca as an event for the same reasons magic and master magic got removed. The WRs are getting too fast and I dont want to see sub-0.3 avg of 5s by people.


2x2 is one of the more popular events, i dont think they will remove it


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