# Online Cubing Competition



## CubingCompetitions (May 4, 2010)

Alright guys, I am starting an online cubing competition website with puzzles not usually speedcubed in competitions. there will be 10 events every 2 months and there will be prizes for the top in each. Registration is 2 dollars. The prizes are Trajber's Octahedron or QJ dodecahedron 3x3x3. if you win 2 events, you get both!!! Sorry but no more than 2 prizes won is allowed. For instructions on how to enter, visit www.cubingcompetition.webs.com If you have any questions contact me. The events will be different for every competition and there will be 6 per year, if there is a lot of participation, the price for registering will drop to 1 dollar. Please post your questions and comments. Anyway, you can register from now till may 20th and then start submitting videos.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 8, 2010)

alright, i was planning for this to be a may-june competition, please register soon or I will have to cancel it. this is going to be a really fun competition and a chance to win 2 awesome puzzles!!!


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## Dene (May 8, 2010)

The problem is, it isn't really worth entering unless you have a good chance at winning, which not many people do.


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## Faz (May 9, 2010)

And if you have to pay.


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## TheMachanga (May 9, 2010)

Not in.


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## martin8768 (May 9, 2010)

http://cubemania.org


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## CubingCompetitions (May 9, 2010)

guys, you don't have to post here just to say you don't want to enter, this is supposed to be a fun competition, I am just getting it off the ground. future competitions will only be 1 dollar and the prizes will get better, however, this will never happen if I don't get some people that are willing to be in the first few competitions, I hope some of you like this idea. I have also advertised on the twistypuzzle forum and if anyone knows where else I should advertise, I would appreciate it.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 9, 2010)

@martin 8768, this site has no prizes, or any motivation to enter and win, although it looks like a fun site, for our competitions you will get a prize!


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## PatrickJameson (May 9, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> @martin 8768, this site has no prizes, or any motivation to enter and win, although it looks like a fun site, for our competitions you will get a prize!



No motivation? Racing is not only a fun way to practice, as opposed to solving on you own, it also helps you get better, and possibly helps to get rid of some of the nerves involved with competing in actual WCA competitions.

Like said above, this is silly to enter unless you have a good chance of winning. Everyone else would and should just join competitions like those on cubemania.org if they wish to compete.

There's a good chance that your main motivation is that you would just like to make a few extra bucks while doing this, as well.

Also, who are you? I don't really like the anonymity of this whole thing.


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## riffz (May 9, 2010)

Okay so basically, only the top cubers in the world will bother to enter (if they read this thread and are willing to pay to enter). Combine that with the fact that you can just practice the scrambles over and over until they aren't legitimate solves and its not much of a fun competition.


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## 04mucklowd (May 9, 2010)

I might do it when the exchange rate is better


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## IamWEB (May 9, 2010)

You would have be on webcam with the competitor as they receive the scrambles, reading out the moves to them to make it that much harder to give the scrambles to someone else, and watch them do every solve while you judge them, just to ensure that they don't cheat.
Preventing cheating is too much a burden to do this all successfully every 2 months.


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## amostay2004 (May 9, 2010)

We should assign 1 person from this forum to join and win it.

Then donate the prizes to competitions or sell them and donate the profit to this forum


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## CubingCompetitions (May 9, 2010)

Ok guys, I really don't like the negative response, but I'm not afraid of a bunch of people that get mad easy. so if you guys want to ask some legit questions instead of trying to bash us, I would appreciate it. in response to some of your comments, no, competitors will not be able to practice the scrambles as qqrewf from twistypuzzles is making a random scramble generator. secondly, if you don't like me being anonymous, my name is Elijah Cross and I am ENCuber on twistypuzzles. Evan Jennings, Ezra Kelly and Luke Benjii are all helping me get started. for those of you who are worried about me trying to scam you: this is going to cost me some personal money trying to get started, if you don't want to enter, that's fine, I respect that totally. but that's not going to stop me from trying to do this competition, I have received a positive response on other forums, but hey more cynics on this site i guess lol. but anyway, if you just want to be irate and be a noob, find a politician to pick on, but if you have serious questions, comments, or suggestions, that's what I would like to hear.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 9, 2010)

oops, forgot something, the events will be different every competition, and the puzzles won't always be commonly speedsolved ones, so people who aren't amazing still have a chance. and competitors are only allowed to win 2 at the max, so second place people still have a chance to get a prize, eventually I'm hoping 1st second and third places will all get prizes.


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## Cyrus C. (May 9, 2010)

I don't see how random scrambles prevent cheating. They just make it more unfair.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 9, 2010)

well they make it so no one can practice them, and the time recorded is mean of 3 not single solves, if that clears up anything.


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## Dene (May 10, 2010)

I don't think anyone was mad. We were all giving you reasoned responses detailing why we have no interest whatsoever. Don't hate on us for trying to talk you out of wasting your money.


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## Neo63 (May 10, 2010)

very impractical idea. no point paying if you can compete for free...


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## abr71310 (May 10, 2010)

And, you still have to pay.
:S

Make the first ones free, still with prizes - if you get a loyal consumer base, then people will come to pay... hopefully.


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## abr71310 (May 10, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> Ok guys, I really don't like the negative response, but I'm not afraid of a bunch of people that get mad easy. so if you guys want to ask some legit questions instead of trying to bash us, I would appreciate it. in response to some of your comments, no, competitors will not be able to practice the scrambles as qqrewf from twistypuzzles is making a random scramble generator. secondly, if you don't like me being anonymous, my name is Elijah Cross and I am ENCuber on twistypuzzles. Evan Jennings, Ezra Kelly and Luke Benjii are all helping me get started. for those of you who are worried about me trying to scam you: this is going to cost me some personal money trying to get started, if you don't want to enter, that's fine, I respect that totally. but that's not going to stop me from trying to do this competition, I have received a positive response on other forums, but hey more cynics on this site i guess lol. but anyway, if you just want to be irate and be a noob, find a politician to pick on, but if you have serious questions, comments, or suggestions, that's what I would like to hear.



Negative response?

"pay us and you COULD win prizes... if you're the best"

I'm pretty sure NOBODY thinks they are that "best", so nobody is going to want to join.
Why make a P2P competition when we could just go to a WCA sanctioned one where we have real judges, real timers, real people around us, real fun and real results at the end that can actually really help us along the way?

I'd say it's a good constructive criticism, but if you want to be a five-year-old and assume we're attacking you, fine, we're attacking you.

What are you going to do about it?
Cry?
I don't think anybody will give you sympathy for a badly thought out idea.

His name is qqwref, please get it right.

Positive response on other forums! Perfect! Go there!
If we don't like you here, then back off, we don't like you here.
Leave it at that.

Cynics?
We're just cheap - is there wrongdoing in wanting to save money and reserving judgement on a guy who just joined our forum?

I think our entire logic is completely legitimate, and to rag on us is to insult us.
We demand an apology from your half-hearted attempt at guilt.

OMG WE'RE BEING NOOBS AND ATTACKING YOU.
What are you, five?

Oh wait, I went over that.
Sorry, I'll let you go back to playing with your crayons on the kiddie table.


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## Neo63 (May 10, 2010)

lol Michael...that was a bit harsh but right to the point. Seriously, stop asking for input then saying that we are attacking you. As someone already said, we are trying to prevent you from wasting your time and money.


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## Me (May 10, 2010)

Cyrus C. said:


> I don't see how random scrambles prevent cheating. They just make it more unfair.





CubingCompetitions said:


> well they make it so no one can practice them, and the time recorded is mean of 3 not single solves, if that clears up anything.



You mean no one can practice them until they're released. 
I've thought many times how something like this could be done online legitimately.. 
My only solution is that once you release the scrambles, the deadline is 4 mins later, that way there's only enough time to do a mean of 3 once. To confirm them, a small video of the average has to be submitted within 20. blah blah all this still doesn't really 100% stop the possibility of cheating...

There are so many requirements it just becomes a hassle, and the best can sign up anyway and win with ease. I'm going to stick with cubemania competitions for now. Or we're just naysayers and you're about to come up with the next best thing since sliced bread. Nevertheless, good luck.


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## Bryan (May 10, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> my name is Elijah Cross and I am ENCuber on twistypuzzles. Evan Jennings, Ezra Kelly and Luke Benjii are all helping me get started.


And who are these other people? I don't see them in the WCA database.



CubingCompetitions said:


> for those of you who are worried about me trying to scam you: this is going to cost me some personal money trying to get started


Besides the puzzle and shipping, what are you other costs? The fact that you seem to be willing to cancel the competition if you don't have enough interest seems to indicate that you are trying to fully fund this from competitor fees.

Also, you seem to be disorganized. On your site, you have May 1st as the date when events will be announced, but you haven't done that. And is it $2 per event? It's not really clear. How can people register if they don't know the events?


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## CubingCompetitions (May 10, 2010)

OK, trying to answer a lot of comments here. first of all, I don't belong to WCA, that's not the point, this isn't a WCA event, the whole point is that we're doing puzzles that AREN'T solved in speedsolving. second, i know it's not as cool as real events, but a lot of people can't go to events anyway! that's why it's online, if they is ever enough people I will host a non-conventional competition in the flesh. third, I am not acting like a 5 year old, although I admit I may have, at the first come across as a wimp, but do you guys have a problem with facilitating an environment where people with legitamite ideas feel received warmly? and BTW, to most of the people that tried to convince me that people weren't being harsh, made the harshest comments. I really don't care, but people who have nothing productive to say, really have nothing to post about. to most of you, i appreciate your criticism, you have really helped me alot, I will probably postpone the competition, make everything more clear and host the first one free, and still have prizes, that way you guys can know that we are trustworthy. I would still appreciate it if you guys became a member of the website so I can know who's interested. Thanks for everything guys!!!
-Elijah-
BTW, don't consider this the end of the discussion.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 10, 2010)

Neo63 said:


> very impractical idea. no point paying if you can compete for free...


forgot to reply to this one, the only reason to pay is because there are prizes, hopefully, I will get a professional site in the future and advertisements will pay for the cost so that there will be no admission fee.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 10, 2010)

Neo63 said:


> lol Michael...that was a bit harsh but right to the point. Seriously, stop asking for input then saying that we are attacking you. As someone already said, we are trying to prevent you from wasting your time and money.



ya, sorry for the triple post guys, 
you're right, I really have no excuse for being so upset, I appreciate everybody's criticism, 

@bryan, the events are announced, I'm pretty sure they're on the website, but I'll check


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## Bryan (May 10, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> first of all, I don't belong to WCA, that's not the point, this isn't a WCA event



No one expects this to be a WCA event. Determining if you're in the WCA database is just as easy manner to determine what sort of connection you have to the cubing community, since no one has ever heard of you. Trying to fix that by listing other people who no one has ever heard of doesn't really help either.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 10, 2010)

I will become a member then, the ironic thing is, I really am not much of a speedsolver, but I like to solve puzzles that aren't normally speedsolved. But it doesn't really matter, because I won't be competing.


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## anders (May 10, 2010)

The irony here is that becoming a part of the WCA database requires that you indeed compete. There is no other "membership".


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## jms_gears1 (May 10, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> I will become a member then, the ironic thing is, I really am not much of a speedsolver, but I like to solve puzzles that aren't normally speedsolved. But it doesn't really matter, because I won't be competing.


Wait so you want to hold a competition, albeit one online, and yet your not a speedcuber, and dont plan on being one. You also didnt know that you had to compete to become a 'member' of the WCA

You obviously have no knowledge of the speedcubing community in general, and you want to run this competition? AND charge people for it?

Either your an idiot, an optimist or and idioticaly optimistic idiot....


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## CubingCompetitions (May 10, 2010)

wow, OK, I don't have to be part of, know about, or care anything about WCA. I don't know anything about it, because I've never needed to because I've never been able to attend a competition. But I don't understand why that is a problem, I have a good brain (i daresay) and I can handle the logistics of this. it's not really rocket science. and just to let you know, this is not about "the speedcubing community" it's about puzzles that AREN'T speedcubed, so it gives people a chance to compete with puzzles that the are good at that aren't official events.


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## Dene (May 11, 2010)

Pro tip: A "good brain" can be used to generate better grammar.


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## riffz (May 11, 2010)

Dene said:


> Pro tip: A "good brain" can be used to generate better grammar.



English may not be his first language so it's not entirely fair to base it off that. If it is, then... Well I guess... Nevermind.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 11, 2010)

Dene said:


> Pro tip: A "good brain" can be used to generate better grammar.



I sincerely apologize for the less than stellar grammar, although I don't think it was bad enough that you need to make a point about it. And to make a point myself, English has such a wierd language structure, that merely a "good brain" (I.E. logic) can afford the luxury of being perfect at it.  
and English has never been my forte, frankly it annoys me. but I will edit my previous post, if you mind so much


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## Forte (May 11, 2010)

Aside from all of the WCA stuff, there still is really not much of a purpose to join for a fee anyway, considering there will always be only a couple people who will win every time 



CubingCompetitions said:


> and English has never been my *forte*



copyriiiiiiiiiight


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## CubingCompetitions (May 11, 2010)

like I've said before, you can only win 2 events, 10 prizes will be awarded, but, judging from all the comments I think it is a wise idea for me to postpone the competition and then I will be hosting the first one for free most likely. That will prove, i hope, that I'm serious about this.


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## Faz (May 11, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> I don't have to be part of, know about, or care anything about WCA.



Wow you are right, it's only the *World Cube Association*


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## CubingCompetitions (May 11, 2010)

I detect a note of sarcasm, lol
however, it's true, I don't need to have anything to do with it. It doesn't add or detract to the way an online competition is run.


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## jms_gears1 (May 11, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> I detect a note of sarcasm, lol
> however, it's true, I don't need to have anything to do with it. It doesn't add or detract to the way an online competition is run.


Two things:
One, if your going to hold an online *CUBING* Competiton then perhaps you should be familiar with the *World Cubing Assosciation* 
and Two, It adds to your credibility, there really is no real incentive for people to compete.
Sure there are prizes, but what are they again? Maybe instead of giving two certain prizes you could let the winner choose?

And if you only detect a note.... You will soon be drowning and not know it...


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## LarsN (May 11, 2010)

I appreciate the initiative. I don't think we have to be hostile just because someone wants to hold a non-WCA competition. Especially since we are talking about puzzles which are not part of the WCA events. That's how I understood the outlines of the competition anyway.

I doubt that people will want to pay for an online competition. I know I wouldn't. Maybe you should let the competition run for a while with no entry fee and no prizes. People rarely cube because of the prizes.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 11, 2010)

jms_gears1 said:


> CubingCompetitions said:
> 
> 
> > I detect a note of sarcasm, lol
> ...



I am familiar with it, but so what? and you people are not getting it. 
1. there will be 10 events per competition
2. There will be a prize for 1st place of each event
3. contestants are only allowed to win 2 events
4. A winner can choose either the QJ dodecahedron or QJ Trajber's octahedron (atleast for this event)
does that explain anything?

and about the sarcasm talk: settle down dude, me saying "i detect a note of sarcasm" was MY sarcasm,


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## CubingCompetitions (May 11, 2010)

LarsN said:


> I appreciate the initiative. I don't think we have to be hostile just because someone wants to hold a non-WCA competition. Especially since we are talking about puzzles which are not part of the WCA events. That's how I understood the outlines of the competition anyway.
> 
> I doubt that people will want to pay for an online competition. I know I wouldn't. Maybe you should let the competition run for a while with no entry fee and no prizes. People rarely cube because of the prizes.



Yes, that's what I have decided to do. there will be no entry fee for atleast the first competition. I'm hoping that someday when I have enough contestants and a professional website, to have all competitions free, and cover the costs by selling add space on the website. but that is a long way in the future


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## Neo63 (May 12, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> Neo63 said:
> 
> 
> > very impractical idea. no point paying if you can compete for free...
> ...



I appreciate your enthusiasm and taking initiatives, but people don't compete for the prizes, and they get prizes at WCA competitions too, where it's an actual competition that you can also meet new people etc. And it's funny how someone who isn't into speedcubing is trying to host a cubing competition. There will be a lot of details to work out and cheating is very possible. How do you know they are using the scrambles provided? What if people were afk-ing when the scrambles were given? Things like that make online competitions difficult and people will definitely be reluctant to pay for a competition like this. And what events are you exactly hosting?


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## Bryan (May 12, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> 1. there will be 10 events per competition
> 2. There will be a prize for 1st place of each event
> 3. contestants are only allowed to win 2 events
> 4. A winner can choose either the QJ dodecahedron or QJ Trajber's octahedron (atleast for this event)
> does that explain anything?



So, if you have three events, and first and second place are:

Event 1: Alice and Bob
Event 2: Alice and Charlie
Event 3: Alice and Daniel

If you limit Alice to two prizes, how do you decide who's going to get the third prize?


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## Dene (May 12, 2010)

You keep telling people to "calm down" and the like, yet I don't see anyone being not calm. Am I missing something here?


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## CubingCompetitions (May 12, 2010)

Bryan said:


> CubingCompetitions said:
> 
> 
> > 1. there will be 10 events per competition
> ...



I have been pondering this problem, and so far I can't come up with anything fair. The only way I can think of is not giving away prizes, but then if someone amazing won all 10 that wouldn't be fair to anyone. The best thing I can think of right now is who was closest to the first place time. With a ratio not a time, I'm not sure that was a good explanation though.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 12, 2010)

Dene said:


> You keep telling people to "calm down" and the like, yet I don't see anyone being not calm. Am I missing something here?



ummm........ I just think it's kind of stupid that people keep commenting about grammar and sarcasm, it's rather pointless,


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## jms_gears1 (May 12, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > You keep telling people to "calm down" and the like, yet I don't see anyone being not calm. Am I missing something here?
> ...


Well from what ive read there has been one(?) comment on sarcasm.
And grammar is kind of important in this context. If you are going to run a competition, especially one you plan on charging someone, how can people expect you to run it right if you cant even use the right grammar?

Dont get me wrong, Its not about ability, its more about presentation.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 12, 2010)

Ok, yes only one comment on sarcasm, but my only grammar error was leaving out one little word that should have been there. and I'm getting tired of defending myself against this stuff and I don't know why you people care so much. lol.


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## LewisJ (May 12, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> Ok, yes only one comment on sarcasm, but my only grammar error was leaving out one little word that should have been there. and I'm getting tired of defending myself against this stuff and I don't know why you people care so much. lol.



We care so much because you appear not to. You're handling yourself completely wrong to be taken seriously as if you've got everything figured out and can run this thing well - you're brainstorming for how to run the competition in the same thread where you were trying to get people to pay you for the competition! You're obviously not very involved with the speedsolving community. Most people are not here to make money and win prizes, most people are just here to have fun and compete once in a while. For every person here who actually wins events in competitions there are several who are nowhere close to that. 

Also, a further display of your separation from our community:
"I don't have to be part of, know about, or care anything about WCA. I don't know anything about it"
~24 hours later:
"I am familiar with [WCA], but so what? and you people"
Calling us "you people" is distancing yourself a bit, don't you think?

And let's analyze your money proposition with some elementary probability/game theory.
Say we have 20 entrants all paying $1, and a $20 prize.
Say a dozen entrants haven't much of a shot at the prizes, say 1%. Expected value of competition:
-1 + 0.01*20 = -$0.80
Say we have five each with a 3% chance.
-1 + 0.03*20 = -$0.40
Say we have one with a 10% chance.
-1 + 0.10*20 = $1.00
One with a 20% chance
-1 + 0.20*20 = $3.00
And one with a 43% chance
-1 + 0.43*20 = $7.60
Of course this is just madeup data, but 17/20 participants expect to gain nothing out of this. You can't use prizes as incentive to pay.


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## Dene (May 12, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> Ok, yes only one comment on sarcasm, but my only grammar error was leaving out one little word that should have been there. and I'm getting tired of defending myself against this stuff and I don't know why you people care so much. lol.



You are also missing an awful lot of capitalisations out of your typing. That looks very messy, and is tantamount to "noob".


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## CubingCompetitions (May 13, 2010)

Eeeekkk!! the grammar Nazis are after me!!! 
If you want to talk about grammar, start another thread please. BTW, nice misspelling of capitalizations, unless that's a British spelling or something. And to let you know, I think you would be hard pressed to find a majority of posts that have perfect spelling, grammar and punctuation.


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## Rune (May 13, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> Eeeekkk!! the grammar Nazis are after me!!!
> If you want to talk about grammar, start another thread please. BTW, nice mispelling of capitalizations, unless that's a British spelling or something. And to let you know, I think you would be hard pressed to find a majority of posts that have perfect spelling, grammar and punctuation.


Do you know the difference between "capitalisation" and "capitalization"?


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## riffz (May 13, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> BTW, nice mispelling of capitalizations, unless that's a British spelling or something.



Nice misspelling of misspelling. LOL.


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## cincyaviation (May 13, 2010)

CubingCompetitions said:


> Eeeekkk!! the grammar Nazis are after me!!!
> _If you want to talk about grammar, start another thread please_. BTW, nice mispelling of capitalizations, unless that's a British spelling or something. And to let you know, I think you would be hard pressed to find a majority of posts that have perfect spelling, grammar and punctuation.



I would find it very odd for Dene to start a grammar thread, to be honest. It just doesn't seem to fit his personality.


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## CubingCompetitions (May 13, 2010)

Ok guys, this discussion has wandered a long ways. I will probably not answer anyone else on this thread. I will be back with a honed, perfected, and better organized website, rules, and way of running this competition. If you have any serious stuff to say CONCERNING THE COMPETITION, you can PM me I guess. Lol, how was my grammar? (That was rhetorical, don't answer)


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## Dene (May 13, 2010)

It isn't a matter of being perfect, but making those small efforts to make a post look nicer. It's the difference to being seen as a noob with a dumb idea, and being seen as someone who has a serious and legitimate idea. I'm actually trying to help you, believe it or not.


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## shelley (May 14, 2010)

Lot of posts in this thread but only a few have touched on (and you have not addressed) what I think is a huge concern: how will you prevent cheating? If you're letting people do their solves and report their times from home, people can cheat, particularly if they have something to lose/gain. You can ask for a video, but people can still practice scrambles beforehand.

You probably weren't around for this, but a long time ago the Sunday Contest was much smaller than it is now. It was and still is free to join, but the winner of each week's contest used to get a small prize (a set of Cubesmith stickers). Eventually some people started reporting really fast results just because they wanted a free set of stickers, and now the Sunday Contest no longer awards prizes.

If you're asking people to pay $2 to join and only one or two people actually have a chance of winning the prize, it is very likely that there will be cheating (well, given that anyone actually decides to enter that is). How will you prevent it? Until you can satisfactorily address this nobody's going to pay to enter a competition that someone else might unfairly win.


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