# Where do you stop being a beginner and become a speedcuber?



## Escher (Jul 25, 2008)

ironically, not definite which section this should go in (speedcubing or beginners section), but any thoughts? I wouldve said sub 1-min but any other ideas? P.S please let me know if this should go anywhere else.


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## tim (Jul 25, 2008)

There are speedcubers who are beginners.


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## shelley (Jul 25, 2008)

When you're not just solving the cube to solve it and start trying to improve your times, you're a speedcuber. But there are plenty of beginner speedcubers.


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## MistArts (Jul 25, 2008)

When you start solving the cube for speed not for just to solve it.


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## Johannes91 (Jul 25, 2008)

There are also cubers who are neither beginners nor speedcubers.


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## Escher (Jul 25, 2008)

question promptly answered


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## Ton (Jul 25, 2008)

MistArts said:


> When you start solving the cube for speed not for just to solve it.



I agree, the only thing we know that a top speedcuber is one with an average below 13 sec, all other cubers are still speedcubers if they solve the cube for speed and try to improve.


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## Ron (Jul 25, 2008)

Speedcubing is a hobby. You are a speedcuber if you think speedcubing is your hobby.
You may be the best soccer player in the world, but if you never play soccer, then you are not a soccer player.
You may be a slow speedcuber, but you are still a speedcuber.

You may want to discuss who you think is a slow or a fast speedcuber.

Have fun,

Ron


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## Lotsofsloths (Jul 26, 2008)

IMO, Sub15 is a speedcuber.
But I said sub20 was a speedcuber when I averaged 22.
And I also said sub30 was a speedcuber when I averaged 35 xD


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## smskill12 (Jul 26, 2008)

everybody that solves the cube and tries to get faster time is a speedcuber


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## crazyasianskills (Jul 26, 2008)

Agreed, I believe a speedcuber is anyone who solves the cube as fast as they can. I think i heard that in the Cubefreak documentary.


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## badmephisto (Jul 26, 2008)

i wouldnt call someone who solves the cube in 3 minutes a "speedcuber", because... there is simply no speed involved, relatively speaking of course 
Besides there is the fact that it degrades me (and many others below me) in a sense, because I enjoy thinking of myself as a speedcuber 

So anyway to me clearly that definition does not suffice. Imo speedcubing starts at around 40 seconds. If you get that far, you have shown that you are interested enough in the cube to have learned some new algorithms and that you actually care about your speed.


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## Hadley4000 (Jul 26, 2008)

Like the guy said in the extra second of Pursuit of Happyness, it just depends on your intentions. If you are at 2 minutes, and practice so you can hit sub minute, if you are at sub-minute and want to be faster, you are a speedcuber.


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## fanwuq (Jul 26, 2008)

badmephisto said:


> i wouldnt call someone who solves the cube in 3 minutes a "speedcuber", because... there is simply no speed involved, relatively speaking of course
> Besides there is the fact that it degrades me (and many others below me) in a sense, because I enjoy thinking of myself as a speedcuber
> 
> So anyway to me clearly that definition does not suffice. Imo speedcubing starts at around 40 seconds. If you get that far, you have shown that you are interested enough in the cube to have learned some new algorithms and that you actually care about your speed.



Damn it! That means I hit sub 20 maybe 8 month after I started speedcubing. I submitted one year 5 days. Thanks a lot. 

I'd say if you actually bothered to join this forum, you are a speedcubist. 
(what's the difference between cubist and cuber? I use cubist as a noun and cuber as an adjective.) For example, Picasso is a cubist, and he is so much cuber than all the noobs.


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## cmhardw (Jul 26, 2008)

I also think that if you solve the cube, and care about the time taken to solve and not just the solve itself, then you are a speedcuber.

Also, there was a big transition because of the documentary "Cubers". We all used to say speedcubist, or speedcubists. After the first trailers for "Cubers" the documentary came out, and also after the media at the 2003 World Championships started calling us cubers, we all took to the term too.

Back then I thought calling myself a "cuber" sounded weird, and I preferred "cubist". Now, calling myself a "cubist" sounds weird.

Chris


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## Lucas Garron (Jul 26, 2008)

I'm still a beginner.


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## A_Qber (Jul 26, 2008)

speedcubers are people who try and solve the cube at fast times. everyone thinks differently on how fast a speedcuber should be. for me, i think they should be less than 20 seconds... (I'm only at sub 40)


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## Escher (Jul 27, 2008)

i dunno about sub-20... practically, that requires 2LookLL which is 78 algorithms (obviously not including learning dirty F2l algs), which is a LOT to learn... i think its possible to be a speedcuber without that. maybe im only saying that because i only just became a 3-Looker :S also, what does everyone think constitutes a speed-learner? Ive been cubing for about 10 weeks and am comfortably sub-30. any ideas?


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## Tim_Likes_Cubing (Jul 27, 2008)

I like Erik's definition of a speedcuber:

"speedcubing means solve the Rubik's Cube as fast as you can with the desire of doing it faster every time, so it doesn't matter if you are at 10 minutes or 15 seconds of average to be a 'speedcuber'."


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## tim (Jul 28, 2008)

Escher said:


> i dunno about sub-20... practically, that requires 2LookLL which is 78 algorithms



4-look LL and a fast F2L is enough to average sub-20.


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## Escher (Jul 30, 2008)

... surely in execution a 4LLL would take between 8-10 secs, leaving 2 seconds for the cross and 2 secs for each f2l case... thats pretty damn fast. anyone with an f2l like that would probably have learnt at least the PLLs by that time anyway... it just seems a little improbable. show me a youtube video or something and ill believe you


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## PCwizCube (Jul 30, 2008)

Escher said:


> ... surely in execution a 4LLL would take between 8-10 secs, leaving 2 seconds for the cross and 2 secs for each f2l case... thats pretty damn fast. anyone with an f2l like that would probably have learnt at least the PLLs by that time anyway... it just seems a little improbable. show me a youtube video or something and ill believe you


Do you mean this?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLki-254ZKA

Fast people like Yu Nakajima and Harris Chan can finish their Fridrich F2L within 7 seconds. That's probably around 1.5 seconds cross and 5.5 for the rest of the F2L. If you were doing LBL F2L, then you can probably finish the corners in 4.5 seconds and middle layer edges in 6 seconds. 1.5 + 4.5 + 6 = 12 seconds for LBL F2L. 4LLL can be done in 7.5 seconds which is a total of 19.5 seconds.....


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## mrCage (Jul 31, 2008)

Hi 

It is possible (by MistArts' or other definitions to be a speedcuber on the larger cubes and not being a speedcuber on the 2x2x2 and 3x3x3 for instance. That's how i see myself anyway 

Picking up competitive speedcubing today is a daunting task, at least internationally ;-)

- Per


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## Escher (Jul 31, 2008)

Fine, im convinced  Hey, thats Erik! of course hes gonna get 15 sec times with bloody lbl and 4lll! i meant for real people, not superhumans;-)


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## whauk (Sep 28, 2008)

if you average below 40 seconds you are a speedcuber!


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## Odin (Sep 28, 2008)

cool! according to most of you im a speed cuber (a slow one but im still a speed cuber)


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## fanwuq (Sep 28, 2008)

cmhardw said:


> I also think that if you solve the cube, and care about the time taken to solve and not just the solve itself, then you are a speedcuber.
> 
> Also, there was a big transition because of the documentary "Cubers". We all used to say speedcubist, or speedcubists. After the first trailers for "Cubers" the documentary came out, and also after the media at the 2003 World Championships started calling us cubers, we all took to the term too.
> 
> ...



I still prefer cubist. Cuber just seems too much of an adjective: cube, cuber, cubiest.


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## hawkmp4 (Sep 28, 2008)

Cubist makes me feel like Picasso.


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## Odin (Sep 28, 2008)

Cubist... i like it but speed cuber just has a ring to it, you know what i mean?


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## IamWEB (Dec 14, 2008)

whauk said:


> if you average below 40 seconds you are a speedcuber!



I consider myself a speedcuber, but I average in the late 40's.

I consider someone a speedcuber when they either are trying to improve their solve times and/or attempt to solve it as fast as they can, and you know what speedcubing is. I say that because someone who, at their fastest, get 3 minute solves, probably doesn't know what speedcubing is/shows interest in it. This is because you'd probably being practicing fingertricks if you knew, and someone using real fingertricks averages 3 minutes seems rare.


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## AvGalen (Dec 24, 2008)

Escher said:


> Fine, im convinced  Hey, thats Erik! of course hes gonna get 15 sec times with bloody lbl and 4lll! i meant for real people, not superhumans;-)



Well, it is not sub 20, but is was also more than 1.5 years ago. I have since gotten a 21 average and many sub 20 solves using the same method which is really a beginners method:
cross
3 corners
4 middle layer edges
4th corner to finish the F2L
Edge-OLL (3 algs)
Corner-OLL (7 algs)
Corner-PLL (2 algs)
Edge-PLL (4 algs)

I don't think that qualifies me as a superhuman


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## d4m4s74 (Dec 24, 2008)

I'd say you are a speedcuber when you race, against others, against the clock and especially yourself


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## Lord Voldemort (Dec 24, 2008)

badmephisto said:


> i wouldnt call someone who solves the cube in 3 minutes a "speedcuber", because... there is simply no speed involved, relatively speaking of course
> Besides there is the fact that it degrades me (and many others below me) in a sense, because I enjoy thinking of myself as a speedcuber
> 
> So anyway to me clearly that definition does not suffice. Imo speedcubing starts at around 40 seconds. If you get that far, you have shown that you are interested enough in the cube to have learned some new algorithms and that you actually care about your speed.



Yay, I am a Badmephisto Certified speedcuber  (as of like three days ago)
I was thinking something like 1 minute for the same reason. Mostly everyone who gets to a minute does have interest in getting better.


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## Kit Clement (Dec 24, 2008)

You're a speedcuber when you solve cubes for self improvement in time instead of the enjoyment of seeing it solved, regardless of your speed.


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## Escher (Dec 24, 2008)

i think the generally accepted definition here seems to be...

you are a cuber if you enjoy solving a cube. 
you are a speedcuber if you enjoy solving a cube, and strive to solve the cube faster.

thus, one can be a cuber all their life, never wanting to go faster, but having the ability to solve many different puzzles (or even just the 3x3). it is possible to be a cuber and be very fast - as a 'cuber', you just dont care how fast you are, as long as you still enjoy it for the 'thrill of the ride'.

you can also be a speedcuber from the moment you solve a cube for the second time. like me 

Arnaud:
maybe it doesnt qualify you as a superhuman, but it does mean you are very, very good at your method 
Erik does have superhuman tps though 

Edit: and why the bump on this generally concluded thread everybody?


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## shelley (Dec 24, 2008)

Thank you everyone who repeated exactly what everyone else posted in answer to the question 5 months ago. Seriously, we need an "old thread" warning for stuff like this.


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## Tomarse (Dec 25, 2008)

I think the sub-20 barrier is a pretty large benchmark in speedcubing.


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## Sin-H (Dec 25, 2008)

When you start measuring your times, maybe also keeping track of them, then you are a speedcuber.

You are a decent speedcuber if you average Sub30
You are a quite good speedcuber if you average Sub20
You are a really good speedcuber if you average Sub15
You are a top speedcuber if you average Sub14
You are a world class speedcuber if you average Sub13
You are an insanely fast speedcuber if you average Sub12 
You are a guy who needs professional help if you average Sub11 
You are decent+quite good+really good+top+world class+insanely fast+needing professional help+just flabbergasting & mind-blowing if you average Sub10 
You are a liar if you average Sub9 

The last 4 are obviously jokes 

Note that you can be insane without averaging Sub12 ^^


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## Escher (Dec 25, 2008)

Escher said:


> question promptly answered



to shelley : yeah, i would have thought that once i'd said this, the thread would die... evidently, i was wrong.

to sin-h, im glad you think im quite good


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## csdoplr (Jun 26, 2009)

*Am I Considered A Speedcuber?*

I was wondering am i considered a speedcuber. PB for 3x3 is 15.71, 4x4 is 1:49, 5x5 is 3:14 2x2 is 1.60. I know 18/21 pll and like 15 oll. my avg is around 25-27. My pb avgs are 3x3 22:60 4x4 is 2:11 I never practice, and 5x5 is like 3:45. my youtube is http://www.youtube.com/user/StaleBread12 if you wanna see. What you think am I or not?


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## StachuK1992 (Jun 26, 2009)

If you aim to get faster at cubing, YOU ARE A SPEEDCUBER.


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## enigmahack (Jun 26, 2009)

Yeah, even if you're averaging 45 seconds... but you're trying to get faster I'd say you're a speedcuber


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## Sa967St (Jun 26, 2009)

"It doesn't matter whether you average 10 seconds or 10 minutes. If you solve the cube in order to get faster at it, then you are a speedcuber"

I hope I remembered that quote correctly...


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## StachuK1992 (Jun 26, 2009)

badmephisto quote?


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## Sa967St (Jun 26, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> badmephisto quote?


 I think it's either from Macky or Tyson Mao, it's from a video on youtube.


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## Enter (Jun 26, 2009)

yes you are a speed cuber


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## cmhardw (Jun 26, 2009)

I think we can settle this matter with a comprehensive and in depth questionnaire. Please answer all questions or the results will not be valid.

------------------------
**Begin Questionnaire**

Question #1:
When solving a rubik's cube is there a functional stopwatch, computer timer program, clock, wristwatch, computer clock, stackmat, or any other device used to accurately measure time actively being used anywhere within 10 feet of your person, or through a third party observer?

Please answer "yes" or "no".

**End of Questionnaire**
-------------------------

Results: If you answered "yes" to all of the above questions then congratulations! You qualify for the coveted "speedcuber" status.

If you answered "no" to any one of the above questions then I am sorry, but you are not a speedcuber. Please try again at a later time.

Chris

[/sarcastic jerk] ;-)


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## Berry (Jun 26, 2009)

YAY! i'm a speedcuber


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## JTW2007 (Jun 26, 2009)

Sa967St said:


> Stachuk1992 said:
> 
> 
> > badmephisto quote?
> ...



Doesn't matter, they all know what they're talking about. Yes, you're a speedcuber! Congrats!


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## veazer (Jun 27, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> I think we can settle this matter with a comprehensive and in depth questionnaire. Please answer all questions or the results will not be valid.
> 
> ------------------------
> **Begin Questionnaire**
> ...



So when my timer breaks i won't be a speedcuber any more?


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## TemurAmir (Jun 27, 2009)

veazer said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > I think we can settle this matter with a comprehensive and in depth questionnaire. Please answer all questions or the results will not be valid.
> ...



If your timer breaks, and you can still use online sources


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## Corpsez (Jun 27, 2009)

Congrats to finally figuring out you are a speed cuber!


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## pentrixter (Jun 27, 2009)

Wow. Do you also wonder whether you exist or not?

I can't help but think that you already knew that you were speedcuber before you asked the question.


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## rahulkadukar (Jun 27, 2009)

Well I like the definition that has been suggested as it means I am a speedcuber too


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## panyan (Jun 27, 2009)

in my view: timing yourself and trying to improve times, whatever they are, means your a speedcuber


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## Lalena (Jun 27, 2009)

I never would have though I would be a speedcuber since my PB is 1:59 minutes. But yes, I'm trying to ge faster so.....



oh and I would like to concur with pentrixter, smells like fishing for a compliment haha


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## KubeKid73 (Jun 27, 2009)

Are you kidding me? 15.71 and you don't think you're a speedcuber? I'm not even consistently sub-60, and I still somewhat consider myself a speedcuber.


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## spdqbr (Jun 27, 2009)

Was it **** Van Patten or Kierkegaard who said, "If you label me, you negate me?" 

(Sorry I don't know Cantonese).


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

*How fast?*

Dear speedcubers, how fast do I need to be to consider myself a speedcubers or compete? I currently only own Rubik's brand 3x3s - which sucks! I average around a minute using f2l and 2 look oll. How should I get faster?


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## sqAree (Sep 19, 2015)

You can consider yourself a speedcuber as soon as you try to improve your times. Compete whenever you want to, competitions are fun! If possible, get a better cube indeed, there are awesome cubes for all price ranges.
How to get faster: Train a lot, learn PLL.


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## deathbat (Sep 19, 2015)

dude u gotta get a speed cube, ur times will magically decrease as u practice, i too have an experience with rubik's 3x3 but in my opinion other brands are far better than rubik's (better than even the speed cube model)


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks! Hoping to get some new cubes for Christmas! Do you know any good websites for pll. Also, how do you add p.bs at the bottom of a post?


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## NeilH (Sep 19, 2015)

kvrcuber1112 said:


> Dear speedcubers, how fast do I need to be to consider myself a speedcubers or compete? I currently only own Rubik's brand 3x3s - which sucks! I average around a minute using f2l and 2 look oll. How should I get faster?



learn 2 look pll and solve a lot


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Yeah I know! Rubik's brand is crap! Which brand/s would you recommend? I am currently looking at Moyu (Aolong v2)!


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## NeilH (Sep 19, 2015)

kvrcuber1112 said:


> Thanks! Hoping to get some new cubes for Christmas! Do you know any good websites for pll. Also, how do you add p.bs at the bottom of a post?



algdb.net
speedsolving wiki
cyotheking.com


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks! Where do I find 2 look pll? Also, how do you get PBs on the bottom of a message?


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## sqAree (Sep 19, 2015)

kvrcuber1112 said:


> Thanks! Hoping to get some new cubes for Christmas! Do you know any good websites for pll. Also, how do you add p.bs at the bottom of a post?



Use a signature and there is an option you have to toggle so that is always shows up (when you send a post).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYvCj0dpvKk, here are the PLLs Feliks Zemdegs used at some point, I find them decent and use many of them.

It depends on how much time you want to invest in cubing, but as long as you are not totally limited I'd recommend learning full PLL immediately, there are only 21 cases. Start with U, A, then H, Z, E, then the others.


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## deathbat (Sep 19, 2015)

you could look into Shengshou (decent price tag, smooth) 
gans (corner cuts like a dream, hefty price)
Yuxin Zhisheng (a nice blend of aolong and gans, though its not like any of them)


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks!


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## CubeWizard23 (Sep 19, 2015)

dont get a gans, aolong is what u want.
u r a speedcuber when cube trying to go as fast as you can. =)


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Thank you! Any tips for memorisation?


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Yeah I am hoping for an Aolong v2 for Christmas! New at cubing though so not sure if I will get it as my parents find it annoying!


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## sqAree (Sep 19, 2015)

kvrcuber1112 said:


> Thank you! Any tips for memorisation?



Yeah, just repeat the algs over and over (let it be with looking at the sheet), and if you do it a lot you will automatically learn them as the execution is stored in muscle memory then.


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks! Do you know any good links for learning finger tricks?


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## Deleted member 29232 (Sep 19, 2015)

Chris Olson has a series on PLL fingertricks, you could look that one up.Here Fingertricks also come along with getting faster imo


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## sqAree (Sep 19, 2015)

But fingertricks are probably only possible with a decent cube.


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## cuberkid10 (Sep 19, 2015)

It doesn't matter what cube you have/use or what you average. If you solve the cube for speed, then you are a speed cuber!

I also find that finger tricks comes from practicing. I never actually "learned" finger tricks for algorithms. I found them through practicing and experimentation.


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## Amress (Sep 19, 2015)

Alright so I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but whatever.

I've always considered someone a "speedcuber" once they became sub 20. I have no idea why that barrier is so special, but I've always had this standard, and even I didn't call myself a speedcuber until I was sub 20.


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## sqAree (Sep 19, 2015)

Amress said:


> Alright so I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but whatever.
> 
> I've always considered someone a "speedcuber" once they became sub 20. I have no idea why that barrier is so special, but I've always had this standard, and even I didn't call myself a speedcuber until I was sub 20.



No hate I'm just curious why you think that, but as you said your have no idea yourself.. How is any barrier special, and even if some are, I would consider sub20 still very very slow (yeah I'm not sub20 and thus consider myself even slower, but still a speedcuber).


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks! What's COLL


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Amress said:


> Alright so I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but whatever.
> 
> I've always considered someone a "speedcuber" once they became sub 20. I have no idea why that barrier is so special, but I've always had this standard, and even I didn't call myself a speedcuber until I was sub 20.




Lol it's fine! I know I am really slow that's why I am trying to get faster!


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## sqAree (Sep 19, 2015)

kvrcuber1112 said:


> Thanks! What's COLL



https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/COLL


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

Dutchie said:


> Chris Olson has a series on PLL fingertricks, you could look that one up.Here Fingertricks also come along with getting faster imo



Thanks!


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

sqAree said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/COLL



Oh right! Which is better : CFOP or Petrus?


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## Deleted member 29232 (Sep 19, 2015)

You can't really say which method is better. I always thought that it was harder to get fast with Petrus. But that does not mean that Petrus is a slow or bad method. If you want to get fast you need to put the time and effort in it. (Practise). Just try the different methods and see which one you like best.


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## shadowslice e (Sep 19, 2015)

kvrcuber1112 said:


> Oh right! Which is better : CFOP or Petrus?



Vanilla CFOP is better than vanilla Petrus IMO because petrus, despite being more move efficient requires too many pieces to be planned at once with with some not very nice recognition and not a simple enough for most people to work with easily.

So, in conclusion, petrus is not necessarily a lesser method but it is certainly more difficult to get fast with.


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

shadowslice e said:


> Vanilla CFOP is better than vanilla Petrus IMO because petrus, despite being more move efficient requires too many pieces to be planned at once with with some not very nice recognition and not a simple enough for most people to work with easily.
> 
> So, in conclusion, petrus is not necessarily a lesser method but it is certainly more difficult to get fast with.



Vanilla?


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## shadowslice e (Sep 19, 2015)

kvrcuber1112 said:


> Vanilla?



No changes or alterations from the original method.


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## kvrcuber1112 (Sep 19, 2015)

shadowslice e said:


> No changes or alterations from the original method.




Oh right!


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## xchippy (Sep 19, 2015)

Anyone who solves a cube for speed. Like if you solve the puzzle for fun, you're not a speedcuber


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## molarmanful (Sep 19, 2015)

Amress said:


> Alright so I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but whatever.
> 
> I've always considered someone a "speedcuber" once they became sub 20. I have no idea why that barrier is so special, but I've always had this standard, and even I didn't call myself a speedcuber until I was sub 20.


Perhaps because sub-20 is one of the hardest barriers to break. I think that sub-30 would be a speedcuber, and sub-20 would be a good speedcuber.



kvrcuber1112 said:


> Oh right! Which is better : CFOP or Petrus?


Most people do CFOP, because it's mostly "mindless" algorithm spamming (which makes it fast). But you could be like me and learn both...

Petrus blockbuilding is somewhat hard to get used to, especially if you are from a cross-first background. But that doesn't worse, just harder.


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## sqAree (Sep 19, 2015)

Oh that's interesting? So as soon as I am sub20 it will get a lot easier?  Nice to hear.


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## molarmanful (Sep 19, 2015)

sqAree said:


> Oh that's interesting? So as soon as I am sub20 it will get a lot easier?  Nice to hear.


Uh... yeah. More or less.


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