# Race to Full ZB/ZBLL



## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 19, 2009)

Who can learn all ZB/ZBLL algorithms the fastest?

Rules:

First choose if you want to compete in the race to ZB or to ZBLL.
Post your progress regularly.
Don't lie.

List of competitors for ZB:

Maarten Smit

List of competitors for ZBLL:

Brian Yu

My progress:

ZBF2L: 21/306
ZBLL: 0/494

Next that will be learned: I will finish VHF2L and then use it in my practise solving, when I have mastered VHF2L I will start with the no corner permutation version of the T-orientation. Then I will do the Basic ZBF2L.


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## byu (Apr 19, 2009)

Brian Yu
ZBLL

Progress: 21/494 (the PLLs)


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 19, 2009)

Updated.

Where do you find your algs? I used Jason Baum's site for ZBF2L, but he lists a very limited number of ZBLL cases. I'm mainly making my own with Cube Explorer...

I'm making a website, by the way. I'll put all my ZB algs on it.


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## Dene (Apr 19, 2009)

Lol, this thread is a joke right? Like, you think you can just learn full ZB like this? good luck...


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## byu (Apr 19, 2009)

I'm competing for fun, but this race will probably never have a winner.


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## Lt-UnReaL (Apr 19, 2009)

byu said:


> Brian Yu
> ZBLL
> 
> Progress: 21/494 (the PLLs)


Any OLLs you know with all edges oriented are ZBLL's.


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## byu (Apr 19, 2009)

Lt-UnReaL said:


> byu said:
> 
> 
> > Brian Yu
> ...



Yeah, but I don't know about which edge permutation and corner permutation I have. If I got a PLL skip, I would know ahead of time.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 19, 2009)

Dene said:


> Lol, this thread is a joke right? Like, you think you can just learn full ZB like this? good luck...


It's a joke if you think we think we can just learn full ZB like _this_. But if you think I can't learn full ZB in... a long time, you're wrong. Totally.


Johannes91 said:


> trying-to-speedcube... said:
> 
> 
> > ZBLL: 0/494
> ...


True, but I try to keep it all organized. I have a (not yet completed) list of ZBLL algs, and I will just work off that list and not already say I know a case when I haven't seen it yet.


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## Lofty (Apr 19, 2009)

Oh no... Johannes is entering... well theres the winner right there... 
Sign me up tho.

Brian Loftus
My Progress: ~50/494

I think I'll end up using mainly LUR and LFR algs and learning the 177 unique cases then since they are LUR you can easily mirror them. Inverses will be a little harder but not much. But yea, with ZBLL you pretty much have to find your own algs. Unless you are good with ACube it may take awhile... There are a few lists online I think, you just have to sift thru algs that were brute-forced and add finger tricks and stuff. 
I think I will use only F<U,R>F', LUR, and LFR algs as I will be learning these algs straight to OH so no OH amnesia just 2H amnesia on them 


Dene said:


> Lol, this thread is a joke right? Like, you think you can just learn full ZB like this? good luck...


Full ZB might be a little much... but just ZBLL shouldn't be near as bad. Its only 177 algs plus mirrors and inverses... haha.


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## EmersonHerrmann (Apr 19, 2009)

Dene said:


> Lol, this thread is a joke right? Like, you think you can just learn full ZB like this? good luck...



If it isn't and someone actually finishes learning it...that would be sick.

P.S. - these races are getting out of control, don't go too far with them.


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## soccerking813 (Apr 19, 2009)

Dene said:


> P.S. - these races are getting out of control, don't go too far with them.



Lets make a full last layer race maybe?

I think that maybe in the next 5-10 years someone will remember all of the algs for full ZB, and have really good recognition and finger tricks, and look ahead, they that person will totally kill us all.

But that is not going to be me. I'm not planning on learning any ZB cases, and I think that this thread will go dead before the winner is found. But I don't doubt that someone will get it.


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## shoot1510 (Apr 19, 2009)

Your just wanting us to memorized all ZBF2L/ZBLL. But who in the world can remember up to 400 or more algorithms that fast? It like almost impossible!! In one day?


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 19, 2009)

Dude, why in one day? I don't care how long it takes you, I think it might take me 1.5-2 years.


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## Lofty (Apr 19, 2009)

It can maybe be done in a summer. Its easier to be optimistic about it if you think of it as 177+ algs.


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## Jhong253 (Apr 20, 2009)

Just memorizing 177+ algs? Maybe that could be done in a summer. But getting them down in muscle memory so that you can perform each alg in 2 seconds or less probably will take much longer time.


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## Robert-Y (Apr 20, 2009)

The only thing I'm really worried about with ZB is the recognition of the ZBLL case you need to do.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Apr 20, 2009)

Oh, that's pretty simple... First you recognize the COLL case (which can be done really fast) and then you look what edge permutation you have. You look at the FRU corner, and you decide if FU and FUR are connected (C) adjacent (A) or opposite(O). Then you do the same for RU and RFU. There are 3 special cases though... That's because there are 4 possibilities for A/A, so you need another recognition method. You have C/O X, which means that FU and RFU are the same and RU and FUR are opposite, you have O/C X, which is obvious and you have Opp X, where both FU and RFU, and FUR and RU are opposite. On the combination of that edge code and the COLL case you can decide on the ZBLL case.


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## rahulkadukar (Apr 20, 2009)

Wow someone really wants to thrash the 3x3x3 Times. Well I am still learning F2L but I will definitely try ZB maybe after 3 months when my exams are over


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## Robert-Y (Apr 20, 2009)

Hmm... I wonder how hard ZBLL would be for a colour neutral person...


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## MistArts (Apr 20, 2009)

Robert-Y said:


> Hmm... I wonder how hard ZBLL would be for a colour neutral person...



COLL and EP is easy to recognize colour neutally.


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## Robert-Y (Apr 20, 2009)

Ok fine, I'll probably learn some ZB algs during this summer or the next summer...


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## 4Chan (Aug 11, 2009)

EDIT: I win.


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## *LukeMayn* (Nov 2, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> Bring it on.
> 
> I just finished the T set.



THE WINNER (if you count mirrors )


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## 4Chan (Nov 2, 2009)

OH GOD, when i saw this thread bumped I thought someone beat me to it. O_O

Haha, yessss, within the week I'll win (or if I really push it tomorrow)~
Only 24 algorithms left!


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## Edward (Nov 2, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> OH GOD, when i saw this thread bumped I thought someone beat me to it. O_O
> 
> Haha, yessss, within the week I'll win (or if I really push it tomorrow)~
> Only 24 algorithms left!



Learning all these algs, now all thats left is to recognize them while solving.


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## Tim Major (Nov 2, 2009)

rahulkadukar said:


> Wow someone really wants to thrash the 3x3x3 Times. Well I am still learning F2L but I will definitely try ZB maybe after 3 months when my exams are over



Don't!


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## MichaelP. (Nov 2, 2009)

Has anybody ever memorized all the algs? If so, is it only an elite few (like 5 people ever)? And are they fast, and do they have good recognition?


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## 4Chan (Nov 2, 2009)

MichaelP. said:


> Has anybody ever memorized all the algs? If so, is it only an elite few (like 5 people ever)? And are they fast, and do they have good recognition?



If you want, I can memorize them all tomorrow. d:
I only have a 90 minute long class tommorow, and the rest of the day is mine.

I'm not fast, and my recognition sucks because im using a bad system, but im switching once I know all algorithms fluently.


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## MichaelP. (Nov 2, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> MichaelP. said:
> 
> 
> > Has anybody ever memorized all the algs? If so, is it only an elite few (like 5 people ever)? And are they fast, and do they have good recognition?
> ...



Aren't their like 4XY algorithms? I'm pretty sure theirs more than 41. Or at least in this race...


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## 4Chan (Nov 2, 2009)

>=/

I believe I'm fully aware of that.
41 subsets, 12 algorithms each.
I've been doing this for a*while* now.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16553
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16405


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## *LukeMayn* (Nov 2, 2009)

so cubes=life, what the avg. move count for a solve now?


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## 4Chan (Nov 2, 2009)

Last time I counted, it was like, 50-ish since I'm still wasting turns on VHF2L.

Even though the optimal ZBLL is 12-13 turns on average, a bunch of my algs aren't optimal, since I chose ones which felt fast. );


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## OLLiver (May 30, 2015)

I resurrect this thread after all this time!
OLLiver knows 40/493 ZBLL, after 3 weeks learning.
Hopefully in june we will learn the entire T subset, will keep you posted


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## OLLiver (Jun 2, 2015)

MY ZBLL Progress
I have taken a few days off to learn VHLS (20 algs in one day as VHLS is so easy lol)
Then we can start the Entire T set! aiming for 2 weeks

5th of june 2015.
Started T-set, 3/72

20 of june 2015,
Argghh Had to relearn 20 algs but making progress now.

23 of june 2015 
36/72 T set

21st august 2015.
96 ZBLLS. T set done onto U

2/07/2015 
48/72, of T set not enough time


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## Berkmann18 (Jun 24, 2015)

I want to participate in this race so my name is Maximilian and I know full ZBF2L (I don't know every optimal or almost optimal algs as I mainly do by intuition) and I know 74 ZBLLs with some more that I forgot.


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## Berkmann18 (Jul 24, 2015)

3 more ZBLLs into the my head .


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## OLLiver (Aug 21, 2015)

Finished the T set a week ago. I have started the U and plan to learn it as fast as possible. I know ~100 ZBLLs total out of 494! so I am around 20% done. will keep you posted


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## xchippy (Sep 3, 2015)

43 ZBLL (LL skip, PLL, Part of COLL) full zbf2l (intuitive)


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## GCubegrrr (Feb 23, 2016)

The easiest and most efficient way to learn a set of algs especially a set as extensive as the ones found in ZB is to devise a story scenario and attach the algs to parts of the story. This method of memorization is called Loci and it is how I remember my algs. There is no limit to how many algs you can memorize with Loci. Here is a link to help you get started... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdfUaydquXs


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## Berkmann18 (Feb 23, 2016)

GCubegrrr said:


> The easiest and most efficient way to learn a set of algs especially a set as extensive as the ones found in ZB is to devise a story scenario and attach the algs to parts of the story. This method of memorization is called Loci and it is how I remember my algs. There is no limit to how many algs you can memorize with Loci. Here is a link to help you get started... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdfUaydquXs



There's a limit but that only applies to people who didn't travelled enough or didn't explored far enough from their house.


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## Ksh13 (May 24, 2016)

Guess I could post my progress here. I finished U a couple of days ago, currently working on the 2GLL set for T.


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## JTcuber (Mar 26, 2017)

Is it too late to post here? I am finishing up my first H set, I'll work on all 2gll sets next


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## Lazy Einstein (Mar 27, 2017)

Hyped to see others learning.

I quit like three times because of school, kids, and work but I am back on and going full force. I also was genning algs for every case, learning OH alt algs, AUF and Y2 recognition while learning which made it slow.
I am only genning algs and learning ZBLL till done. Then I will get on the others.
I'll post my progress in here as well.

Done 2GLL and I know my COLLs plus the odd easy ones so my numbers look odd but I am at:

H: 40/40
Pi: 72/72
AS: 72/72
S: 31/72
T: 22/72
U: 33/72
L: 21/72
Total: 312/493

Just drilling algs till the second week of April and then moving on to Sune


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## Ksh13 (Mar 27, 2017)

Oh right this thread exists. I quit at like 200 since I lost motivation/time, plan on finish up ZBLL this summer though, and then start pondering with ZBLS. I currently know pretty much full U and T, and a lot of misc cases (mostly Pi and L though).


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## AlphaSheep (Mar 30, 2017)

It's about a year since I decided to actually learn ZBLL, but I keep getting distracted. Anyway, I might as well post my progress here for the record. I will finish one day. I think I just need a structured plan instead of just learning random cases like I have been. 

PLL: 21/21
U: 24/72
T: 23/72
H: 12/40
L: 12/72
Pi: 10/72
S: 4/72
AS: 4/72

Total: 110/493 (22.3%)
Or if I exclude sune and antisune cases, 102/349 (29.2%)


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## I Know One Case Of ZBLL (Mar 30, 2017)

I think I am doing great so far: 

_PLL: 21/21_

U: 0/72
T: 1/72
H: 0/40
L: 0/72
Pi: 0/72
S: 0/72
AS: 0/72
Hehe.


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## Rahul Tirkey (Mar 30, 2017)

trying-to-speedcube... said:


> Who can learn all ZB/ZBLL algorithms the fastest?
> 
> Rules:
> 
> ...


Can you tell me the name of the website where you got zbf2l algs?


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## GenTheThief (Apr 11, 2017)

Might as well post my progress here.
I've been skipping around throughout T, U and Pi, which I find the easiest to learn.
Full COLL, including sune/antisune.

ZBLL: 170/494 ~33%



Spoiler: U: 52/72



Right Swap - 2/12
Back Swap - 12/12
Left Swap - 2/12
Front Swap - 12/12
Diag Swap - 12/12
No Swap - 12/12





Spoiler: T: 41/72



Right Swap - 5/12
Back Swap - 4/12
Left Swap - 5/12
Front Swap - 3/12
Diag Swap - 12/12
No Swap - 12/12





Spoiler: L(ol): 8/72



Right Swap - 1/12
Back Swap - 1/12
Left Swap - 1/12
Front Swap - 1/12
Diag Swap - 2/12
No Swap - 2/12





Spoiler: S: 7/72



Right Swap - 1/12
Back Swap - 1/12
Left Swap - 1/12
Front Swap - 1/12
Diag Swap - 1/12
No Swap - 2/12





Spoiler: As: 7/72



Right Swap - 1/12
Back Swap - 1/12
Left Swap - 1/12
Front Swap - 1/12
Diag Swap - 1/12
No Swap - 2/12





Spoiler: H(aha): 5/40



Right Swap - 1/12
Front Swap - 1/12
Diag Swap - 1/8
No Swap - 2/8





Spoiler: Pi: 28/72



Right Swap - 1/12
Back Swap - 1/12
Left Swap - 1/12
Front Swap - 1/12
Diag Swap - 12/12
No Swap - 12/12





Spoiler: PLL: 22/22



Right Swap - 12/12
Diag Swap - 5/5
No Swap - 5/5



I posted it in the goals thread too, but I hope to finish U, T, L, Pi, and maybe H depending on how I find the recognition, before the end of this year, and then S/AS and H (if I didn't start it), by april 1st.


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## AlphaSheep (Dec 18, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> It's about a year since I decided to actually learn ZBLL, but I keep getting distracted. Anyway, I might as well post my progress here for the record. I will finish one day. I think I just need a structured plan instead of just learning random cases like I have been.
> 
> PLL: 21/21
> U: 24/72
> ...


I'm walking this race at a pretty slow pace but I'm definitely still moving forward, so that's something. 

Progress toward full ZBLL: *192 / 493* (38.95%)
Excluding Sune and Anti-Sune: *184 / 349* (52.72%)

*PLL: 21/21 (100%) *
U: 28/72 (39%)
*T: 72/72 (100%)*
H: 18/40 (45%)
L: 35/72 (49%)
Pi: 9/72 (13%)
S: 4/72 (6%)
AS: 4/72 (6%)

I stopped learning random cases and focused on finishing the T set. It's boosted my confidence massively. I'm going to work on U and L next, focusing in particular on the sets that are inverses of sets I already know.


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## Hazel (Jan 15, 2020)

We should revive this thread 

I currently know 96 ZBLLs, which include all of Pi and 1/3 of L. In ten days, I want to have finished L. Then, I'll force myself to take at least a week or two off to practice, and then I'll start a 3rd set!


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## PetrusQuber (Jan 15, 2020)

Aerma said:


> We should revive this thread
> 
> I currently know 96 ZBLLs, which include all of Pi and 1/3 of L. In ten days, I want to have finished L. Then, I'll force myself to take at least a week or two off to practice, and then I'll start a 3rd set!


Ahhh I’ll race you, although you started earlier, so.., I‘ll start with T probably.


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## ProStar (Jan 15, 2020)

You guys: Race to full ZB!

Me: Race to 2lll!


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## PetrusQuber (Jan 15, 2020)

What LL are you doing?


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## ProStar (Jan 15, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> What LL are you doing?



If you mean me, I'm using 4lll. I'm either gonna learn CLL or PLL, haven't decided on my method yet.


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Jan 15, 2020)

Aerma said:


> We should revive this thread
> 
> I currently know 96 ZBLLs, which include all of Pi and 1/3 of L. In ten days, I want to have finished L. Then, I'll force myself to take at least a week or two off to practice, and then I'll start a 3rd set!





PetrusQuber said:


> Ahhh I’ll race you, although you started earlier, so.., I‘ll start with T probably.


I’ll race both of you.


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## WarriorCatCuber (Jan 15, 2020)

ProStar said:


> If you mean me, I'm using 4lll. I'm either gonna learn CLL or PLL, haven't decided on my method yet.


Why not start with ELL ? It's a slightly smaller set


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## PetrusQuber (Jan 15, 2020)

Cubinwitdapizza said:


> I’ll race both of you.


Have you started yet? I’ve got full PLL + COLL (no S and AS) and a grand total of 3 ZBLL algs, which are really S/AS variants being comboed.


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## ProStar (Jan 15, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> Have you started yet? I’ve got full PLL + COLL (no S and AS) and a grand total of 3 ZBLL algs, which are really S/AS variants being comboed.



Read his signature


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Jan 15, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> Have you started yet? I’ve got full PLL + COLL (no S and AS) and a grand total of 3 ZBLL algs, which are really S/AS variants being comboed.


Whatever my signature says.


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## GenTheThief (Jan 16, 2020)

Oh gosh I've barely improved over the course of 2.5 years. iirc I did pretty well through 2017 but I know that I haven't been learning anything recently.

I haven't counted in a while but I'm somewhere around 300/494.
Let's see if I can finish by summer. I'll start finishing up my pi set again right now; I just have 3/4 of a set I learned but forgot and that set's mirror/inverse.

E: I found the algs I used because I lost my slip of paper with them. I have that and I still remember around half. Hopefully I can get them, at least weakly, in my brain over the weekend.

Then I'll finish the mirror set and start working on U/L. I literally have to learn 1 set, mirror, inverse, and mirror and inverse that set along with the inverses of other two mirror sets it to finish up both. Because I know pi, I can just learn the inverses for H. I think recognition is going to be the hardest part.
Then s/as
boom easy

E2: also I know that mirrors/inverses are generally a terrible way to go about it but I'm super lazy and this is better than coll/epll
its all about the bragging rights


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## RyanP12 (Jan 16, 2020)

I’m going to going this race
T- 6/72
Started yesterday, what recog method do you guys use? One of the reasons I learn slowly is because of recog.


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Jan 16, 2020)

Ok here we go,
H: 13/40
Pi: 6/72
L: 5/72
T: 4/72
U: 4/72
S: 3/72
As: 3/72

EDIT: also, does anybody know of any videos that explain two sided recog?


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## PetrusQuber (Jan 16, 2020)

RyanP12 said:


> I’m going to going this race
> T- 6/72
> Started yesterday, what recog method do you guys use? One of the reasons I learn slowly is because of recog.


Recognise COLL case, then look at the UFR corner and it’s surrounding stickers is what I do. E.g. There’s a 2x2x1 at UFR, the stickers are all adjacent to each other, etc.

493-21=482 (PLLs)
482-144=338 (AS and S) if I do them
338-30=308 (COLLs)
308-4=304 (ZBLLs learnt so far)
304 algs left to go! Also, should I learn AS and S???



Ok never mind, I read @Tao Yu ’s post from a while back, saying I should probably decide when I’ve finished everything else, as it is worth it, but gives less to you than learning other sets.


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## GenTheThief (Jan 17, 2020)

> As for the actual ZBLL cases, I ordered them by CC, CA, CO, AA, AC, AO, OO, OC, AC,
> OxO, CxO, OxC. This helped to keep the document organized and neat.
> This recognition system is called the Harris/Baum system, which compares the FU and RU edge
> stickers to the FUR and RUF corner stickers, respectively. Jason Baum, again, has a great way
> ...


This is a really good written description of a 2-sided recognition system called Harris/Baum. It's from this zbll google doc, second to last page of the intro before the algs start; I don't know if the algs are obsolete or if they're still good though.

I don't know of a video on 2-sided, but I'm sure you could search 'harris/baum zbll recognition' on YouTube and get a good result.


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## ProStar (Feb 7, 2020)

I guess this is dead again?


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## GenTheThief (Feb 8, 2020)

I finished up my pi cases. Recognition isn't fast but I consider myself to know full pi.
I have yet to finish up the final 10 algs in my U set, but that's one of my goals for this weekend.


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## Etotheipi (Feb 8, 2020)

GenTheThief said:


> I consider myself to know full pi.


But that's impossible, it has infinite digits.


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## GenTheThief (Feb 9, 2020)

Etotheipi said:


> But that's impossible, it has infinite digits.


I derive them when I come across the new digits.


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## GenTheThief (Apr 24, 2020)

Updates and revival of this thread:
U and Pi are finished-- I haven't reviewed in a sec, so some are pretty iffy, but given enough time I could definitely get them all, just not on the first try.

I had moved on to working on H, so I'm familiar with it, but I stopped and really don't know them at this point anymore. Re-learning them will be easier though, since I know what to look for in recognition, and half know the algs.


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## PetrusQuber (Apr 25, 2020)

Nice! I’ve pretty much given up on ZBLL for now lol, I should probably do a week or two of just ZBLL to get back into it.


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## Kaneki Uchiha (Apr 25, 2020)

has anyone ever learnt all of them with good recog


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## PetrusQuber (Apr 25, 2020)

Wdym? Loads of people have learnt ZBLL, and are good with it. Take @Tao Yu .


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## Kaneki Uchiha (Apr 25, 2020)

how can u recognise 472 algs


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## PetrusQuber (Apr 25, 2020)

Kaneki Uchiha said:


> how can u recognise 472 algs


First, recognise OCLL case. We all know how to do this. Next, recognise COLL case. You generally have to look at 4 stickers to figure out the case. Lastly, recognise ZBLL. Generally, learn this recognition like you would PLL, look for patterns on the the side of the cube.

If you practise, the recog is decently fast. OCLL recog is pretty much instant, COLL might take a quick glance, and ZBLL could be a second or maybe less.


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (Apr 25, 2020)

I’m going to start 2gll soon


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## GenTheThief (Apr 25, 2020)

Kaneki Uchiha said:


> how can u recognise 472 algs


A lot of practice.

When you initially learn OCLL, you might just be looking at the yellow stickers, but you also see the other stickers too, you just ignore them. When you learn COLL, you start to see some of the patterns on the corner pieces. It takes a little bit at first, but for some cases you just take in the COLL information at the same time as OCLL.
Once you move up to ZBLL, its the same sort of thing. None of the information is new, you've just been ignoring it. COLL recognition is basically instant and while there are a lot more cases, ZBLL just starts to feel natural.

While I certainly don't know full ZBLL, I do know over 300 cases, and would say that at least 200 of them I'd be able to recognize in an instant (given the right angle, because I haven't learned multiple angles yet). It might not something that you thing is possible unless you've put in time, but it isn't as hard as you might think-- it just takes a long time to learn.


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