# For those saying +40 degrees is impossible



## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

So, I keep hearing that cutting corners from 40 degrees and over is impossible. Well, let me prove you wrong.

*EDIT: In this video, after calculations, the corner cutting seems to be around 42.94 degrees (Thanks to Rubik's Cube Fan).
*
Core: Old Type A
Springs: Type D
Screws: Type D
Centers: Type D
Corners: Old Type A
Edges: Old Type A

Highest tension minus 1/4 turn
Lube: Jig-A-Loo (Dissassemble, 2 full sweeps, work in for about 10 minutes.)

*Video removed as I felt it was now useless*


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## Odin (Dec 30, 2008)

DUDE!!! whats your cube!!! thats gawd like !!! how well is it over all?


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Old type A core
Type D Springs/Screws/Centers
Old type A cubies

It's the best cube I ever had, it turns super fast (can do U3, even U4 is possible, U2 is possible with an index flick), it almost never pops (I think I've gotten like 1 or 2 pops this week), corner cutting, well, you just saw it. Overall it's an awesome cube, best hybrid IMO


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## pcharles93 (Dec 30, 2008)

Now do an average with the same tension...


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

pcharles, I didnt touch the tension, but just for you, I'll make a video showing the same corner cutting, then doing a few solves and then a bunch of fast permutations, is that good for you?

(Currently uploading the video)


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## Rubixcubematt (Dec 30, 2008)

type d corners or type d centers????


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Type D centers (sorry 'bout that lol)


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## Odin (Dec 30, 2008)

im going to by a type D just to make this hybrid....!!


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

pcharles93 said:


> Now do an average with the same tension...



Here you go, just for you pcharles93.

(New vid, doesn't really fit with the comment above.)


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## Odin (Dec 30, 2008)

"The video you have requested is not available.

If you have recently uploaded this video, you may need to wait a few minutes for the video to process" whats up with that ?


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

It's still being processed, only uploaded it like 30 seconds ago.

EDIT: Video up.


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## Vulosity (Dec 30, 2008)

I just tried the hybrid. It's just too fast and it overshoots. The tension was at max.


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Doesn't do that for me Vulosity.


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## Ellis (Dec 30, 2008)

that cube looks so nice


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Trust me, it is.


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## Rodrigo Piaggio (Dec 30, 2008)

Samlambert: can be more accurate with this hybrid description? I get lost with the mix of cubies (i know that type d screws only work with type d centers, but the cubies...?)

Thanks


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok so, 
Core: Old Type A
Springs: Type D
Screws: Type D
Centers: Type D
Corners: Old Type A
Edges: Old Type A

Highest tension minus 1/4 turn


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## Rodrigo Piaggio (Dec 30, 2008)

Samlambert said:


> Ok so,
> Core: Old Type A
> Springs: Type D
> Screws: Type D
> ...



Thanks man! i will try this combo!!! Any tip for lube?


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

I use Jig-A-Loo
As for how I lube: Dissassemble, 2 full sweeps, work in for about 10 minutes.


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## toast (Dec 30, 2008)

I love this hybrid, thank you.


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## Rodrigo Piaggio (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok, i made a few tests since i have a type d with old a core (just switch the cubies from an old type a).

Yes, the cube is Super smooth and fast because the old type a cubies are a bit smaller.

The cutting corner abilities are improved and the cube seems to locks less. I still don't have any pop.

I think this is a GREAT hybrid. Thanks a lot!!!

PD: Since i switch the cubies the old type a with type d cubies sucks!! haha, but who cares.....


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## Unknown.soul (Dec 30, 2008)

Can you try it with your Diansheng? It should be the same thing as the screws, springs, and centers are almost the same.


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Unknown.soul said:


> Can you try it with your Diansheng? It should be the same thing as the screws, springs, and centers are almost the same.



I tried it and it didn't work as well.


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## Rodrigo Piaggio (Dec 30, 2008)

Unknown.soul said:


> Can you try it with your Diansheng? It should be the same thing as the screws, springs, and centers are almost the same.



Yes, i think you mean with the nº222 model, rigth? I have one of this DS with an old type a core that works great. I will try this new idea but for now i'm going to sleep (3 in the morning in my country!!)

tomorrow i will post my findings

good nigth!!!


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## vloc15 (Dec 30, 2008)

Samlambert said:


> So, I keep hearing that cutting corners from 40 degrees and over is impossible. Well, let me prove you wrong.
> 
> Core: Old Type A
> Springs: Type D
> ...



BTW, where did you order your type A from??


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Puzzleproz

EDIT: New vid is up explaining all the mods I did to my cube.


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## cardmagic12345 (Dec 30, 2008)

Wait are those Old D's or what?


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

What do you mean? If you mean the screws, yes.


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## PCwizCube (Dec 30, 2008)

Approximately 45 degrees? I think not. I paused the video, aligned my cube so it was exactly like yours, and was arctan 13.9/16.6 = 39.9 degrees. So... um this is kind of funny. "For those saying +40 degrees is impossible" Well guess what? You didn't do +40 degrees! OWNED LOL    (And yes, 0.1 degrees matters )


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## kickinwing2112 (Dec 30, 2008)

how do you cut the center legs?


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> Approximately 45 degrees? I think not. I paused the video, aligned my cube so it was exactly like yours, and was arctan 13.9/16.6 = 39.9 degrees. So... um this is kind of funny. "For those saying +40 degrees is impossible" Well guess what? You didn't do +40 degrees! OWNED LOL    (And yes, 0.1 degrees matters )



Sorry to tell you, but your calculations are wrong, this is pretty much 43-44 degrees.
Sidenote: Your cube isn't exactly like mine in those pictures.


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## Odin (Dec 30, 2008)

Rubiks cube fan your wrong sam's hybrid is cutting at 40+ish


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## PCwizCube (Dec 30, 2008)

Samlambert said:


> Sorry to tell you, but your calculations are wrong, this is pretty much 43-44 degrees.
> Sidenote: Your cube isn't exactly like mine in those pictures.


Ok, I admit that the picture was a tiny bit off. How do you know it's 43-44? Please actually prove to me it's that, with statistics. I would show you my ruler measures but my camera is way too blurry...

EDIT: Re-did calculation (like 4 times), it is over 40 degrees, but not 43-44. It is arctan 14.8/15.9 = 42.94 degrees. And if you actually calculate it yourself, I'm pretty sure you would get close to that range. Make sure you're measuring where the cube touches the surface, not the rounded part of each piece. Also, when you go from the starting point of the ruler you have to look over the cube directly overhead so you can see the starting line of the ruler touch the corner piece accurately.













Samlambert said:


> EDIT: After better calculations it seems to be around 41-42, I believe I could get 43 if I really tried.


Can you please show all of your work?


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> Samlambert said:
> 
> 
> > EDIT: After better calculations it seems to be around 41-42, I believe I could get 43 if I really tried.
> ...



I didn't calculate at first, I just looked at it and it looked like 43-44 degrees to me. Then I changed it so it would fit your calculations but if you tell me your calculations were wrong then I'll stay with my first impression, 43-44 degrees. I was just actually too lazy to calculate. I guess I'll do the calculations and see for myself.


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## PCwizCube (Dec 30, 2008)

Samlambert said:


> I didn't calculate at first, I just looked at it and it looked like 43-44 degrees to me. Then I changed it so it would fit your calculations but if you tell me your calculations were wrong then I'll stay with my first impression, 43-44 degrees.


After recalculating like 4 times, I'm pretty sure it's approximately 42.94 degrees, not approximately 45 degrees (what you first said in the video).

Whatever, I'm tired of this. Can we end this conversation? You proved me wrong, 3x3 cubes can cut corners at more than 40 degrees angle. Congratulations, be happy about that. Let's just go with that your cube can cut corners 42.5-43.5 degrees. That is amazing, be happy with that. Now, seriously, I'm getting tired, lets end this.


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## Odin (Dec 30, 2008)

no! lets not end this i want to see the exact angle it can cut before i buy a type D to make this! i dont want it to be approximately 45 degrees!


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## PCwizCube (Dec 30, 2008)

Odin said:


> no! lets not end this i want to see the exact angle it can cut before i buy a type D to make this! i dont want it to be approximately 45 degrees!


If you really want to know go do what I did. Copy SamLamert's cube exactly and measure it yourself. Whatever SamLamert says, I'm not going to do anything more.


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok, so after trying about 10 times with almost always the same results, I get arctan 16.1/14.8. This is the maximum my cube can go, if anyone asks for it I can give some proofs (video with calculations in it then showing it can cut corners from that angle). I don't know how to calculate degrees with that but the results are 16.1/14.8

EDIT: Got it calculated, once again, this is the MAXIMUM, and it wont always work, maybe 3 times out of 5, also, I need to apply some force so it works. 

Result: 47.40809 degrees.


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## PCwizCube (Dec 30, 2008)

Samlambert said:


> (Currently doing calculations to know how much degrees exactly my cube allows for corner cutting. Will edit. The results will be very precise.)


If you want it to be EXTREMELY precise then you would have to do it on all the corners of the cube, on all angles of the corners. Then you would average those.


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## fanwuq (Dec 30, 2008)

Woah! That's crazy! How did you make it so that when you pull R' down it always do U, not U'?
I had a cube that was also very loose (didn't calculate degrees, but it was more like 25 because when it gets that loose, it tends to lock up. When it was at a speedcubing tension, it was something like 28-31. No point in arguing over 1 or 2 degrees, it's just weird. I sure can't cube with something like that. 
Like Vulosity said, the cube just overspins way to easily.
I had a type D before, but I never tried this test on it.
The center piece was spinning as if it was springless (the springs were not putting any pressure on the pieces.) In that case, my cubes always lock up.
What's your secret of no lock ups? And you must have quite amazing turning precision to not over spin it. If I have a cube that cuts corners that crazily, I'd actually put in some anti-lube to slow it down so it is more controllable. 
If you have such amazing turning precision, why not just use a tight cube? 
Corner cutting is not the only thing too look for in a cube. I know that cube is not for me. I like controllable cubes that I can sub-1 the U-perm on, I dislike any cube that turns more than a single quarter turn too easily.


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

fanwuq, this cube is much more controllable than you would think, well for me. I dont have any problem with overturning or anything. Also, I use this cube because for me it's the perfect cube, there's nothing more I could ask from a cube.


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## fanwuq (Dec 30, 2008)

I really want to see this cube in person. Looks too uncontrollable from the video.

Edit: I now remember this cube.
I had the same cube except it was with white type C cubies and D centers. It's just that the screws were unscrewing and I lost that cube. It was awesome when I had it, but I didn't really do many solves with it. I don't know how well it cut corners, but it was pretty good.

edit2:


Samlambert said:


> Result: 47.40809 degrees.


ROF2L!!!
I guess you have a good cube that cuts corners better than most, but I'd estimated at about 35 degrees from the video.


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## Odin (Dec 30, 2008)

i want to but that cube so bad....


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## PCwizCube (Dec 30, 2008)

Samlambert said:


> EDIT: Got it calculated, once again, this is the MAXIMUM, and it wont always work, maybe 3 times out of 5, also, I need to apply some force so it works.
> 
> Result: 47.40809 degrees.


Wow... that means your cube can cut corners from another turn. Is that the same as when you showed it in the video? Because I can just tell my imitation of your cube is not over 45 degrees.

And if doesn't work all the time and you have to apply more than usual force to it, it doesn't really count...


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> Samlambert said:
> 
> 
> > EDIT: Got it calculated, once again, this is the MAXIMUM, and it wont always work, maybe 3 times out of 5, also, I need to apply some force so it works.
> ...



It's not the same as in the picture, did it just now about 15 minutes ago. And yes I know it doesn't really count but I wanted to see the maximum I can go.


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## Pietersmieters (Dec 30, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> I really want to see this cube in person. Looks too uncontrollable from the video.
> 
> Edit: I now remember this cube.
> I had the same cube except it was with white type C cubies and D centers. It's just that the screws were unscrewing and I lost that cube. It was awesome when I had it, but I didn't really do many solves with it. I don't know how well it *cutted* corners, but it was pretty good.
> ...


I think it's cuts


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## PCwizCube (Dec 30, 2008)

Wow. I actually tried this cube and it's VERY good. Super fast, no pops, and doesn't lock up! I haven't tightened the tension yet to what SamLambert has but I'll do it later. Thanks a lot SamLambert! 

It doesn't seem to be able to cut corners very well, but locks up less than my Type D w/ old A core. SamLambert, did the sanding of the pieces help it cut corners better? Or was it originally good at cutting corners?

EDIT: I just tried this mod but with Type C cubies. Both cubes are very similar, but I think I like the feeling of the hybrid with the Type A cubies a little bit better


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## bamman1108 (Dec 30, 2008)

I think that was the most pointless arguement I have ever seen.


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

bamman1108 said:


> I think that was the most pointless arguement I have ever seen.



I think that was the most pointless post I have ever seen


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## n00bcubix (Dec 30, 2008)

Samlambert said:


> bamman1108 said:
> 
> 
> > I think that was the most pointless arguement I have ever seen.
> ...



Owned.


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## Samlambert (Dec 30, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> Wow. I actually tried this cube and it's VERY good. Super fast, no pops, and doesn't lock up! I haven't tightened the tension yet to what *SamLamert* has but I'll do it later. Thanks a lot SamLamert!
> 
> It doesn't seem to be able to cut corners very well, but locks up less than my Type D w/ old A core. SamLambert, did the sanding of the pieces help it cut corners better? Or was it originally good at cutting corners?



The sanding did seem to help cutting corners. Also, the cube at first wasn't as good for cutting corners, just make sure you set it at the right tension, sand enough, and well, all the usual things. Also, should be mentionned, this cube has been lubed well over 20 times. I'm pretty sure it helped making everything smooth. But like I said, I might have forgot some mods I did, if I remember some things I did and that did change something, I'll post em here.

EDIT: SamLamert xD


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## bamman1108 (Dec 30, 2008)

That's two in less than 10 minutes.


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## ConnorCuber (Dec 31, 2008)

bamman1108 said:


> That's two in less than 10 minutes.



Two what ?


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## Odin (Dec 31, 2008)

ConnorCuber said:


> bamman1108 said:
> 
> 
> > That's two in less than 10 minutes.
> ...



i think he means posts


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## krazedkat (Dec 31, 2008)

Very good cube you have there. I may make one similar... ..


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## Lofty (Dec 31, 2008)

Hmmm well I have all green cubes so or type D and A the colors are a little different adn I have different shades of stickers so it looks goofy.
I tried this combo anyway (without the mods) and with the cube set at full tension (the tension all my type D's are set at it is not a good cube at all and can't cut corners at all... I'll try the 1/4 turn and see if it does anything. But I doubt it will jump for no corner cutting to 45degrees.
edit: My cube was not even at full tension so my tension when I tried this was more then 1/4 away from full.
I wonder mine sucks when all of yours seem pretty good.
Edit2: at an entire turn from max tension it cuts corners pretty well. Maybe around 30 only tho. It locks a little when trying to do these extreme corner cuts so I can see how the rounding will really help it.


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## amostay2004 (Dec 31, 2008)

I tried this hybrid as well and it didn't work out for me..decent at cutting corners but not as good as yours. But yes, very smooth.


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## panyan (Dec 31, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> Approximately 45 degrees? I think not. I paused the video, aligned my cube so it was exactly like yours, and was arctan 13.9/16.6 = 39.9 degrees. So... um this is kind of funny. "For those saying +40 degrees is impossible" Well guess what? You didn't do +40 degrees! OWNED LOL    (And yes, 0.1 degrees matters )



that is the worst come back i have ever heard:
1) your cube and his are not the exact same
2) your measurements are not perfect
3) rounding of the measurments make the final answer imperfect
4) the measurements from the screen onto your cube are inaccurate

the only way to test this hypothesis is to get his cube and measure exactly the lengths and then work it out


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## Swordsman Kirby (Dec 31, 2008)

panyan said:


> and measure exactly the lengths



I would like to see that.


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## xchiltonx (Dec 31, 2008)

Q1.
What would you say are the main contributing factors to not popping?
Obviously not including tightening the screws.
My type A edges cores measure 3.5mm from the side of the edge-cubie, it pops.
My type F edges core measures 4.0mm from the side of the edge-cubie, they don't pop.

When swapping all edges in both cubes it makes the new type f pop and the type A not pop.

Q2.
OMG this is difficult to accurately describe... I can see that the four gaps around center.
You said that you sanded the 'center cubie edge' as well as the 'edge and corner core', did you also sand the edge and corner cubies ?

Thanks


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## Samlambert (Dec 31, 2008)

xchiltonx said:


> Q1.
> What would you say are the main contributing factors to not popping?
> Obviously not including tightening the screws.
> My type A edges cores measure 3.5mm from the side of the edge-cubie, it pops.
> ...



A1
It's because type D springs/centers/screws have a "limit" that they can be like pulled up, and this limit is just low enough so the cube rarely pop. On an Old type A this limit is very high, and if you force it, pops are really easy. I think it's the main reason. (Dont know if you really understand but I could post you some screenshots if you want)

A2
I sanded the "corners" of the centers, and everything that looked sharp for the edges and corners. That would be another way to describe it


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## xchiltonx (Dec 31, 2008)

1.
Cool thanks. I think that sanding really helps for cutting corners, but I'm always afraid of it possibly contributing to the popping :/
2.
Maybe a screen shot might help because I'm having difficulties getting the picture, I mean I'm sort of confusing it with you cutting the centers so that the free spin.


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## Micael (Dec 31, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> After recalculating like 4 times, I'm pretty sure it's approximately 42.94 degrees, not approximately 45 degrees (what you first said in the video).





"approximately 42.94 degrees" 4 significant digits in that affirmation don't make sense to me. As you based your calculation on a video, 2 significant digits look more fair here. So you calculated it as approximately 43 degrees. You sould agree for at least a 1 degree uncertainty, so 43 degrees and 45 degrees are approximately the same thing.


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## amostay2004 (Dec 31, 2008)

Why are u all freaking arguing on some stupid degree calculations? Yes he said that his cube could cut more than 40 degrees but it's just to show that it's good at cutting corners..

and indeed his cube is good at cutting corners from the video...screw the degrees


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## vloc15 (Dec 31, 2008)

this cube is good..i might give it a try..i have a white type D..do you think a black type A and D cube might still feel the same? or does the white plastic really matter?


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## xchiltonx (Jan 2, 2009)

xchiltonx said:


> 1.
> Cool thanks. I think that sanding really helps for cutting corners, but I'm always afraid of it possibly contributing to the popping :/
> 2.
> Maybe a screen shot might help because I'm having difficulties getting the picture, I mean I'm sort of confusing it with you cutting the centers so that the free spin.


sorry 1 and 2 are inverted there. Anyway for the limit of the centers, would putting washers on the screws fix the limit?


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## Samlambert (Jan 2, 2009)

xchiltonx said:


> sorry 1 and 2 are inverted there. Anyway for the limit of the centers, would putting washers on the screws fix the limit?



My guess is that it would help, but not completly fix it.


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## PCwizCube (Jan 2, 2009)

panyan said:


> Rubik's Cube Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Approximately 45 degrees? I think not. I paused the video, aligned my cube so it was exactly like yours, and was arctan 13.9/16.6 = 39.9 degrees. So... um this is kind of funny. "For those saying +40 degrees is impossible" Well guess what? You didn't do +40 degrees! OWNED LOL    (And yes, 0.1 degrees matters )
> ...


Thanks a lot. That makes me feel so much better 

3) It was better than Samlambert's "approximation." He was using whole numbers so what's wrong with me getting more into detail?

And I and Samlambert himself proved that in the video, the cube did not cut corners approximately 45 degrees. (I wouldn't say ~42.94 degrees is approximate, and Samlambert himself said he measured and got 41-42 degrees)

And don't make such a big deal about it. I was just making a little joke that I knew would probably be bad. If you would like to say somethings about measuring at least say it in a nice tone. "that is the worst come back i have ever heard:" is pretty harsh  (in my standards)

And let it be known that I make REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY bad comebacks at school. It's so embarrassing... I don't want to talk about it



Micael said:


> Rubik's Cube Fan said:
> 
> 
> > After recalculating like 4 times, I'm pretty sure it's approximately 42.94 degrees, not approximately 45 degrees (what you first said in the video).
> ...


Okay sorry for being stupid? Thanks for mention that


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## Samlambert (Jan 2, 2009)

Yeah, I think it was kinda rude and you don't deserve it. Anyway, we came to the conclusion that in the video it was about 43 degrees. The whole point of the thread was just to prove that it's possible to have a cube that cut corners over 40 degrees.


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## PCwizCube (Jan 2, 2009)

Samlambert said:


> Yeah, I think it was kinda rude and you don't deserve it. Anyway, we came to a conclusion that in the video it was about 43 degrees. The whole point of the thread was just to prove that it's possible to have a cube that cut corners over 40 degrees.


Yeah, thanks Samlambert. I greatly appreciated it. 

Yes, the whole point of this thread was to prove that a 3x3 can cut corners over 40 degrees. (And after all, that's what the thread title says) And Samlambert proved it.


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## JohnnyA (Jan 11, 2009)

I have a type (a) from 9spuzzles (this one http://www.9spuzzles.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=157&productname= ). Is this an old type a or a new type a? If it is new, where can I get an old type a from to get the core and cubies?


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## BigSams (Jan 11, 2009)

it says "the video has been removed by the user".. so why did you remove it?!! and i was so looking forward to seeing what everyone else was exclaiming about. geeeez


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## 12etsam (Feb 22, 2009)

.....


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## Samlambert (Feb 24, 2009)

12etsam said:


> just get an white edison cube, lube it with jig a loo, tighten all the springs to the max(careful to not strip the core), and it will cut exactly 45 degrees every single time on any layer



I doubt it, do you even know what is exactly 45 degrees or you are just "thinking"?

Unknown.Soul (below): Hehehe


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## Unknown.soul (Feb 24, 2009)

12etsam said:


> it will cut exactly 45 degrees every single time on *any* layer


Even M, E, S?


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## 4Chan (Feb 24, 2009)

12etsam said:


> just get an white edison cube, lube it with jig a loo, tighten all the springs to the max(careful to not strip the core), and it will cut exactly 45 degrees every single time on any layer



Uhmmm, i have a white edison!
And its lubed with jigaloo.

Mines is loosened quite a bit, and i cut off parts of the centre caps so that it could be even looser.
(edisons have these weird tabs.)

EDIT: not really 45, more like, 35 or 40.
It locks up at 45.


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## PCwizCube (Feb 25, 2009)

Samlambert said:


> 12etsam said:
> 
> 
> > just get an white edison cube, lube it with jig a loo, tighten all the springs to the max(careful to not strip the core), and it will cut exactly 45 degrees every single time on any layer
> ...


I agree, would you care to provide proof of your measurements? If you're guessing, you may think that it's 45. But I can tell you, I've tried it and 45 and 40 degrees (even less than 40 degrees too) look pretty similar.

Approximately 39.9 Degrees






Approximately 42.94 Degrees





P.S. Awww, Samlambert, why did you remove that video?  I thought it was not useless, because you had some pretty good information on how you sanded things and such. Would you mind re-uploading it, even as a private video? Or upload to a site where I could download the video? Thanks


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## Zarxrax (Mar 7, 2009)

I just got a plain type C cube from cube4you, and this thing is cutting 45 degree corners easily, every time. Though I tried just over 45 degrees and all of the pieces exploded out.


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## rahulkadukar (Mar 7, 2009)

The video seems to have been removed


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## GermanCube (Mar 7, 2009)

Zarxrax said:


> Though I tried just over 45 degrees and all of the pieces exploded out.



You tried to cut corners @ +45° ??? How did you do this?? 
(More than 45° isn't possible!)


Alex


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## Zarxrax (Mar 7, 2009)

GermanCube said:


> (More than 45° isn't possible!)


Then that must be why it broke apart


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## andyywz (Aug 8, 2009)

how to unscrew the type d screwS!!!


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