# Riddle me this.....



## jonny guitar (Mar 11, 2008)

I am an old guy (for this site anyway) of 40 and the inner kid in me loves playing with my cubes. I want to star blindfold solving and after some investigative reading it has gone from being impossible to something that sounds achievable. I know that it is more difficult to pick these thing up when you are older (most of you guys are too young to know this) and am looking for some encouragement and any advice you can give.

I am thinking something along the cubefreak or pjkcube methods which seam to have diagrams and explantions that I can work with. I am quite good at algo memorization but not so good at short term memory stuff...not bad but not really good. I think I can manage to remember the short story ideas that I read in some of the post but I would fail badly at just _quickly_ memorizing a bunch on misc. numbers.

Am I biting off more than I can chew here or can an old guy learn a new trick?

Lastly, I read in here that it isn't worth bothering with the 2x2. Opinions?

Thanks for your time.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 11, 2008)

It was 10 AM three days after my 45th birthday when I decided I was going to learn blindfold solving and I printed off the blindfold cubing instructions at Macky's website (cubefreak, as you mentioned), and started reading them, trying things out with a cube as I went. I had to watch our 3 kids that day because my wife was out of the country for her sister's funeral. I was able to figure out most of it by the time I put the kids to bed, whereupon I went all out for a couple more hours. At about midnight, I almost had my first solve - I got to the very end and knew what needed to be done, but forgot one algorithm. So I took off the blindfold without looking at the cube, looked at Macky's instructions, and performed the last algorithm without looking at the cube. Unfortunately, by that time I had forgotten the setup moves. So I gave up and looked at the cube, and amazingly I was just 2 setup moves away from solved.

I got my first real solve just 2 days later. So I see no reason why you can't be solving cubes blindfolded by the end of the week. Hey, you're just a youngster! It should be much easier for you, right? 

By the way, I suspect PJK's method is probably even easier to learn than Macky's. But Macky's worked just fine for me, so I can guarantee that one will work for an over-40-year-old.

Oh, and I didn't bother with the 2x2x2 until later. A 3x3x3 is still pretty easy.

Oh, and take your time memorizing. I took 45 minutes for my first 3x3x3 solve. Improving memorization speed can come later. To start with, just make sure you have it solid, so you can concentrate on the solving part. No matter how you memorize, you should be able to be sure it's solid by repeating it over and over until you're sure you've got it. It's not that much information to memorize; if you can repeat it, say, 10 times, without a mistake, you're bound to have it solid. (Odds are you only need 2 or 3 times, but for a first solve, why take chances?)


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## jonny guitar (Mar 11, 2008)

Nice. Thats exactly the kind of post I was looking for. I thank you for the comments and just maybe curse you later for not tallking me out of it if it goes badly. 


Nice to see someone else keeping their brain young.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 11, 2008)

Okay, now I'm really rooting for you to succeed. (Don't want to be cursed.)

I'm totally hooked. I almost got a 5x5x5 multiBLD last weekend - just 2 wing pieces switched on one cube. I hope you don't catch the addiction as bad as I did.  (Then again, it might be fun if you did.)


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## Kenneth (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm one year younger than Mike and I did some BLD practising today. I have not learned it fully yet, that because I'm going for the most advanced type of methods. Maybe I can solve a full scramble but I practise only patrial solves so far. The DNF's are many still and I don't like to do a full memo just to find the cube fully scrambled when I'm done.

I don't think age is a factor doe


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## jonny guitar (Mar 11, 2008)

Well, the pdf printable version on the cubefreak site has a dead link so I will have to wait. I alerted them so hopefully it is something easy to fix....waiting is the hardest part NOT!!!

Thanks for the comments Kenneth..dnf are okay with me as I learned everything the hard way growing up so emotion self flagellation due to repeated failures is okay as long as I am going somewhere with it.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 11, 2008)

I noticed this in the news on Macky's website the other day:



> # 03/02: Rewrote the corner orientation section of the blindfold cubing guide. I dealt separately with 2-corner rotations and 3-corner rotations, using slightly different monoflips. Advanced algorithms have all been moved to the appropriate section of the miscellaneous blindfold cubing techniques page. This was one section many people had trouble with, so hopefully this new change will help.
> 
> There are a couple more changes I want to make before putting the PDF guide online.



You could ask him directly for the old one, or you could try to find a way to print the online version. Or you could wait for him to finish the new one.


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## jonny guitar (Mar 11, 2008)

^^ Thanks Mike I didn't notice that. I will do the ole import into word and screen capture all the pics way for now.


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## Lotsofsloths (Mar 11, 2008)

Blindfolding is REALLY fun, I don't know if you could do it or not at your age, but by reading Mike's post, I bet you can.

It took me a couple months.
But thats because I wanted to practice my execution for each step to prefection before I went on to the next step.

I personally suggest using Pochman to start out, just because of the simplicity and the easy memo.(no edge orientation.)

But as you get faster I guess cycle would be more efficiant.

But for now, I suggest PJK's method.


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## Bill (Mar 12, 2008)

I am currently 58 years old and I started blindfold solving in 2005, using
my own variation on two-cycling. My method has now evolved into a 3-cycle
...and my best at home is 3:03, with an average of about 4:30 on successful solves. 

The thing that slows me down is the lack of speedsolving technique (i.e. fingertricks)...a good speedcuber,
doing the same algorithms, would execute them at least twice as fast.

I also feel like I make a few more errors in execution now than I would have made if this sport would have been around 40 years ago (a pretty hypothetical scenario).

Meanwhile...I am working toward 4x4x4 BLD, when I have time...

Bill McGaugh


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## Kenneth (Mar 12, 2008)

Here in Sweden we got Mats Luthman, just like Bill he only practice BLD and is 47 years old. Then there is Benneths fader John in India, he is also a BLD exlusive, don't know his age but probably around 40 years.


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## Stefan (Mar 12, 2008)

http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/statistics.php#2


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## Kenneth (Mar 12, 2008)

Thanks Stefan, now I know John is also 47.

I also know I'm old enough to get into that list, if I do BLD in my next competition I can get the place after Mike (probably after the summer because I have no plan to do any before that and then I'm 45)


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## pete (Mar 12, 2008)

2x2x2 blindfolded is not waste of time, in fact i would recommend
that you start with that. once you manage that you are half way there.

the 2 steps you learn in solving 2x2x2 (corner orientation & corner
permutation) are exactly same 2 steps you'll reuse in solving corners 
on 3x3x3.

even if you don't own 2x2x2 cube, you can still practise on 3x3x3
just by ignoring all the centers and edges (or just put black
stickers over those pieces and your 3x3x3 becomes 2x2x2).

more importantly, once you do your first successful 2x2x2, it'll
fire you up and motivate you to do full 3x3x3.


i'm older than you and got my cube for Xmas in December, i ignored it
until last month and then did few solves by intuition and then moved
on to blind solving. i started solving corners only (equivalent to 2x2x2)
and had my first successful solve that same day, this small success
gave me enough energy to do successful 3x3x3 by the next day. last week
i did my first multipleBLD (2 of 2).
i now believe any person can do it, it's really that simple.

i used Bill's guide because I found it easiest to understand and follow :
http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcgaugh/

i just use slightly different method for memorization.
i was first doing it entirely by numbers but it was hard to remember
all 30 to 40 numbers. my first solve (last month) took me 35 minutes.
i'm now memorizing corner permutation by visualization
(usually some geometrical objects such as triangles, lines, squares,...)
corner orientation by numbers (this is the easiest part to remember i reckon
because there are only 3 numbers that alternate : 0,1,2), edge orientation
i memorize last and execute first (i try to execute it in a hurry before i
forget it) and edge permutation which is the hardest i now memorize
with use of my pre-prepared list of PAO (person -> object -> action) images.
(i find inventing stories on the go much harder).
with this new memorization method i cut down my solve time (incl. memo)
from 35 minutes to 10-15 minutes (still terribly slow but major improvement
for me).

good luck


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## Joël (Mar 12, 2008)

Hi Johny,

Nice that you are getting into blindfold cubing; it's a great discipline... 

Personally, I would recommend Pochmann. I think it is rather easy, because once you planned and memorised the solve correctly, you don't have to do much thinking during the execution.

I wrote a tutorial on this method. You can find it here.

If you think you have a bad memory, I suggest you use tricks that improve your performance. Look here for inspiration:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X-xl7_hdWZo
http://www.memoryconsulting.com/
http://www.memoryconsulting.com/videos.htm


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 12, 2008)

Bill said:


> I am currently 58 years old and I started blindfold solving in 2005, using my own variation on two-cycling. My method has now evolved into a 3-cycle ...and my best at home is 3:03, with an average of about 4:30 on successful solves.
> 
> The thing that slows me down is the lack of speedsolving technique (i.e. fingertricks)...a good speedcuber,
> doing the same algorithms, would execute them at least twice as fast.
> ...



Hi, Bill - I hadn't noticed before that you were a member here! It's nice to have you here - you're famous for your method. I see you're getting pretty fast now - that's great - you should enter a competition sometime and halve your times!

I'm curious what your memorization time is like. I memorize in about a minute, and average around 3 minutes total; I figure I have the same problem with you (too slow at execution). I'm just wondering if your numbers are similar or not.

It's also nice to have someone on here that makes me actually feel young for a change - I'm actually 12 years younger than you!

Good luck on the 4x4x4 BLD - it's lots of fun!


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## jonny guitar (Mar 12, 2008)

Thanks for all the help and encouragement. I guess I really need to go over each method and see which one grabs me. Joel, your link to Pochmann looks interesting and I already know the main algos inside and out so it would be mostly memory and setup moves...it is looking good right now. Also, thanks for the memory links; there are some glitches in them that won't allow me to play all the videos right now but I will keep trying.

Cheers everybody for the time.


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## Bill (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi Mike,

I memorize in about 1:30 and solve in about 3:00. My best
memo ever, on some easy cube, was 52 seconds...I think
that one was completed in 4:00. I really should push memo speed more.

I noticed on the WCA database that we are very similar in 3x3x3
speedsolving.

I will probably do a competition again, soon...but I really suffer from nerves
during competition, to the point where it was becoming psychologically painful. 
I had a couple of years of getting faster and faster in practice, and watching
my competition times get slower and slower. In fact, I wonder if I am
the slowest full Fridrich method solver there is...

Bill McGaugh


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for responding, Bill. It sounds like you have the same percentages as me memorization to execution - about twice as long for execution as for memorization. I guess that's really not that bad, though, since the experts seem to go at about the same percentages (but faster). The interesting thing is that as your memorization speeds up, your execution seems to speed up proportionally. So yes, you probably should push your memo speed more.

As for the nerves, I can empathize with you - other people who see me at competitions seem to get worried about me when they see how much I'm trembling from the nerves. But for some reason it just speeds me up - it seems to help me more than it hurts me (adrenaline = speed). When I got my 32 second 3x3x3 average, it was better than anything I had ever done at home. I'm now getting really close to 30 seconds on average at home. I'm full Fridrich as well - I learned all the OLLs a month or two ago. Our averages are about the same, but your fastest competition single solve is very fast compared to mine. I've only had about 3 solves ever at home less than 24 seconds, and one was an OLL skip that I got a couple of days ago.


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## Bill (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi Mike,

My best average of 12 at home is 24.45...I have done an average
of 100 in 27 something...so I am seriously impaired during competition.
I have had competitions where all of my solves were slower than any solves
that I had done in months...I get very shaky and the cube locks up constantly.


Bill


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 13, 2008)

Wow, Bill - you're still a good bit better than me. My best average of 100 is 32.24 and my best average of 10 is 28.61. Obviously I do better with competitions than you, relative to my actual ability. But I doubt you're any more shaky than I am; maybe you just need a cube that doesn't lock up as easily? (You should see me tremble in competition - I look truly awful! I invariably have people coming up and asking me if I'm okay. )


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## cuBerBruce (Mar 14, 2008)

I am 51 (although I may not look that old). I haven't been successful at BLD officially yet, but in both my attempts at Kearny Kardinal 2008, I correctly solved 18 out of 20 cubies. I've also been pretty close some other times. Hopefully next month I will have success. My first successful unofficial BLD solve was over 23 minutes. I'm now around 8-11 minutes, typically.

I did a little bit of 2x2x2 BLD solving back in 1983 or so. My method wasn't very good. I would probably make a couple or so "pre-moves" and then perform a number of swaps with a T-perm-like alg. After my mini-cube broke or came apart, I basically quit doing it. Back then, I thought 3x3x3 BLD was too difficult. I wasn't aware of anyone doing it back then.


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## pete (Mar 14, 2008)

Bill said:


> Hi Mike,
> I am seriously impaired during competition.
> ...I get very shaky and the cube locks up constantly.
> Bill






Mike Hughey said:


> But I doubt you're any more shaky than I am;
> (You should see me tremble in competition - I look truly awful! I invariably
> have people coming up and asking me if I'm okay. )




ok, I've never been to a competition but I get shaky whenever someone else
is timing me, even when my wife starts stopwatch I get all shaky (and not
just hands, the whole body).
even when I just time myself I get the same thing.

I've found though that one shot of Vodka typically fixes all that.

so there you have it guys, if there is one advantage you may have over
teenagers at competition then it's the fact that you are legally old enough
to drink


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## jonny guitar (Mar 14, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've found though that one shot of Vodka typically fixes all that.
> 
> so there you have it guys, if there is one advantage you may have over
> teenagers at competition then it's the fact that you are legally old enough
> to drink




Well, a shot before each solve.....would make for a very interesting 20 cube solve average. 


Seriously, if you guys have the shakes you should have a beta blocker an hour before...these are used for stage fright and just calm you right down without hampering any motor skills or brain functioning (not noticeable anyway).


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## Aub227 (Mar 15, 2008)

Hi All, 
I too am up there in age. I'll be 40 this year. It's good to know I'm not the only "old fart"... no offense guys, just an expression. After a 25 year hiatus (picked up the cube in the early eighties too, and just stopped), I saw Macky on youtube and noticed his fingers. I thought it would help with my arthritis, so I picked it up again. It has helped, and now I'm hooked. 

I go to a friend's house after work every day for a few beers (maybe more.. hehe), and that's when I usually practice BLD. I find it very relaxing when I have a good buzz, and have around a 60% success rate on blindfold solves.

I went to my first competition at Kearny and was very nervous too. It felt like I was shaky too. it's nerve racking. Averaged around 32-33 secs on 3x3speedcubing ... that's a good 9 seconds slower than my avg when at home (avg around 24 secs).

At the comp, I had to wait around 4+ hours until BLD event, so I decided to hang at the bar and drink with the Scots that were there. I think 8 pints may have been a little too many. All 3 attempts resulted in DNF and totally scrambled cubes. haha. At home I avg around 1:00 - 1:15 minute memorization and 2 minutes execution using Pochmann. I'm in the process of getting used to freestyle edges, cycling stickers.

Jonny_guitar, I started BLD with Pochmann and found it extremely easy to learn and easy to get used. Rarely any delays between setup moves and alg execution now. 

Thanks for reading and sorry for being so long winded.

Stefan, Joel, many thanks for your great sites, info, and inspiration. Everyone else too!


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