# Speedsolving Pyraminx



## pjk (Jul 18, 2007)

Does anyone here speedsolve the Pryaminx? What are your times like? I just got mine, and have been messing with it today and I am down to around 19 second avg using some method I just made, basically intuitive. I went and looked at this method here which is supposedly the best:
http://www.rubikkocka.hu/angol/pages/piraminxeng.htm

And to me, the method I use seems like less moves and easier. Do you guys know of any other methods? And if you speedsolve it, what are your times like?


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## sgowal (Jul 18, 2007)

I speedsolve it when I have a "not-broken" Pyraminx.

There are 2 main methods I can think of:
- the one you said, starting at a tip
- the one where you do a layer first

I use the second one because I am too lazy to practice the first one and I got a sub-10 average a week ago, plus I still take a long time to recognize the permutation cases. So I guess sub-8 is easily possible with some practice (> 25 solves every week).

And I really don't understand how Grzegorz Luczyna got an average of 6.19 seconds... That's really impressive.


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## pjk (Jul 18, 2007)

Hey Sven,
Is the layer first where you twist all the tips, get all the middle colors correct on each side, build a layer, than permute the last edges? If so, that is what I am doing now. How long does it take you to build a layer?

Luczyna did have an amazing avg. Does he solve with the layer by layer?


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## Rama (Jul 18, 2007)

Grzegorz Luczyna uses an original Russian Pyraminx wich is a lot smaller then the Meffert Pyraminx size(just as big as a 3x3x3 cube).

EDIT: the Russian types are PWNAGE!!


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## sgowal (Jul 18, 2007)

Layer first is:
1) Put 3 centers of the same color on the same face (twist the tips while doing it)
2) Place the 3 edges corresponding on that face (you can also twist the tips here)
You should have 4 tips and 1 layer complete
3) Permute the remaining 3 edges

Building a layer is quite quick, I should do an average but of the top of my head I should be around 5-7 seconds. There is a bunch of shortcuts that enables you to place edges while placing the center during step 1.
Then I take a least 1 second recognition :-( and a 2-3 seconds permutation step.

I believe Luczyna uses the tip starting method.

On an other note, a good pyraminx does everything. I personally use the white japanese version of Mefferts or Tomy white plastic ones. I should look into those russian ones.


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## Rama (Jul 18, 2007)

Well he does the ''tips'' at the last step, because his Pyraminx is way too loose, still no pop. The russian ones are expensive tough(around 50 euro's says Ton), Ton Dennenbroek is trying to find one for me, because 3x3 5x5 and Pyraminx are now my favourite puzzles.


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## pjk (Jul 19, 2007)

Thanks Sven, I will work on that. I am using a Mefferts right now, and I can see getting sub-10 fairly easily. By the way, which algs do you use for the permutation? I know there are like 3 or 4 cases, but do you have some nice optimized algs?


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## sgowal (Jul 21, 2007)

There are 6 cases:
- 3 edges cycle CW
- 3 edges cycle CCW
- 2 edges flipped
- 3 edges cycle CW + 2 edges flipped
- 3 edges cycle CCW + 2 edges flipped

I use Sune and Anti-Sune for the edge cycles, a nice 8 moves commutator for the 2 edges flip, a 6 moves algs for the rest.


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## pjk (Jul 21, 2007)

Okay, got it. I can do the Sune and Anti, and do the 8 move comm. for the 2 edges, what is the 6 move algs for these two:?
- 3 edges cycle CW + 2 edges flipped
- 3 edges cycle CCW + 2 edges flipped
If you could list those, that would be great. I am currently using a 3LLL using R' L R L' U' L' U L to just flip pieces and move. It is basically the first part of the commutator for the 2 edges flipped.


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## AvGalen (Jul 21, 2007)

3 look last layer on Pyraminx? If you know Sune/Anti-Sune/2-Flip you can always do a 2 look last layer!

3 look last layer might be the "Bob Burton"-method.
1) Solve a layer that hasn't been solved already
2) Repeat 1 

For algs: http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/pyraminx.htm


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## pjk (Jul 21, 2007)

Excellent. I should of figured that Jaap had them, my fault. Thanks


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## sgowal (Jul 22, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> 3 look last layer might be the "Bob Burton"-method.
> 1) Solve a layer that hasn't been solved already
> 2) Repeat 1



This method is simply awesome!


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## gillesvdp (Jul 22, 2007)

sgowal said:


> This method is simply awesome!



There is also Lars' Vandenbergh variation:
1) Solve one face.
2) If does not get lucky, try another face.
3) Go back to number 2.


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## pjk (Jul 22, 2007)

Haha, that was how I originally tried solving. Afterall, there are really only 2 algs you need to learn to fix all the pieces.


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## AvGalen (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't think that is really Lars' variation! Solving one face at a time leaves 3! * 6 = 36 possibilities. That would only sometimes give you a sub 1 minute solve 

Solving one layer at a time leaves (1! * 3!) = 6 possibilites. That would pretty much get you a sub 30 second solve every time

Solving one layer at a time (that hasn't been solved before) will give you a sub 20 second solve every time (try it!)


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## Toojdwin (Jul 22, 2007)

Is the Meffert's Pyraminx good for speedsolving?


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## pjk (Jul 22, 2007)

Toojdwin said:


> Is the Meffert's Pyraminx good for speedsolving?



I am using a Mefferts one... and I can avg 15-19 seconds... and have had several sub-9 second solves. Not sure if they are the best, but I think sub-9 avg is very possible with it.


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## AvGalen (Jul 22, 2007)

The classic (white) ones from Mefferts are the best regular sized. The metalic (25th aniversary) are also pretty good.

And some russian version (smaller) is even better than Mefferts, but I don't know where you can buy one


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## Rama (Jul 22, 2007)

The Russian ones date back from the 80's if I am correct, I just mailed a few collectors if they have an (used)pyraminx for me for sale for a decent price... (I ain't going to pay more then 50 euro's).

But Mátyás used an Meffert pyraminx and he did a very good average at the Czech Open with it, but the Russian ones just turns smooth and is just as big as a 3x3x3 cube, so it feels nice in your hands.


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## gillesvdp (Jul 23, 2007)

I actually used one of these Russian Pyraminx during the German Open earlier this year.
They are so good I had troubles to control them and solving the pins took me a very looooong time. 

But I guess that I you have the chance to have one and can practice with it, then you have a great advantage!


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## AvGalen (Jul 23, 2007)

Or we could stop using Pyraminx and start using Tetraminx. For some reason I always feel stupid when "solving" the tips of a Pyraminx.


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## Toojdwin (Aug 3, 2007)

Does anyone know of any online stores besides Meffert's that sell Pyraminxes?


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## Rama (Aug 4, 2007)

Ow yeah people I just got myself an Russian Pyraminx, I will use it at the WC2007, now let's hope I'll find my PASSPORT!! :'(


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## Erik (Aug 4, 2007)

What?? The russian pyraminx is the one that Gregorz uses right? How did you get it?? Anyway, please bring it with you to the meeting  (I assume you'll be there?)


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## Rama (Oct 22, 2007)

Ok I am getting tired and sick of the fact that I am stuck at the 12 seconds average barrier, one of us guys seriously needs to find out a turbo method for the Pyraminx te get 6 seconds on avg, I tried, but I ended up with the weirdest/longest algs ever...


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## Erik (Oct 22, 2007)

What about make one layer minus one edge and then one move to align the LL centres and fix the rest in one go?


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## AvGalen (Oct 23, 2007)

That would work reasonably well Erik. The amount of cases is not that big, but the time-win wouldn't be very high compared to "bottom-layer, middle-layer".

A more promising method would be the "keyhole" method that PJK mentions in the topic-start or a "1 less edge solved, more algs to learn" variation on that.

However, the best method for speedsolving the Pyraminx to me has been
a) finding a good start where you connect 1 or more edges to the correct centers before aligning the centers
b) "Just see" the entire solution during inspection.


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## masterofthebass (Oct 23, 2007)

I do a "keyhole" type method that doesn't involve any algorithms except for flipping 2 edges. I avg around 13 now, but I think i just broke my pyraminx. I don't want to attempt to fix it until after my next comp though.


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## pjk (Oct 23, 2007)

I do a layer by layer, with like a 3 LLL, and avg 17 or so. With a 1 LL, 10 sec avg is definitely possible.

Arnaud, can you type up an example solve or two when you get time with those 14-15 move solutions? I am still not able to minimize my move count that low.


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## masterofthebass (Oct 23, 2007)

Well my solutions are always under 20 moves, unless I have to flip 2 edges. They can be less but in speed, it's not worth it.


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