# This angers me...a ton....



## EmersonHerrmann (May 3, 2009)

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/9510204?GT1=39002

Yeah, it's considered a sport still....although they do the same thing EVERY, SINGLE TIME!!! Now they may have their little freaking variations with teams and whateva, but the speedcubing is 1000x more of a sport than cupstacking will ever be. Doesn't solving a Rubik's Cube in 7 seconds get ANY MAJOR NEWS COVERAGE???? Such BS....

Edit: Ok, I think I got a little out of line....I'm just angry at the news people who posted it there, as you can see by the end of the post...sort of. Look at the post one page 4


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## Gparker (May 3, 2009)

LOL


tiger woods of cup stacking.

Then i guess Erik is the Michel Jordan of cubing? 


but that is kind of messed up, i didnt see one thing in the last 2 monthes about cubing in the paper or TV. and theres been alot of WR's broken


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## Three Days Grace Fan (May 3, 2009)

i hear that! i think that at LEAST the world chapionship should get covered by huge news companies, and then the open compitions should be covered by the local news.


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## JLarsen (May 3, 2009)

Well it's not big enough in the world yet so they'll get all the information wrong like they used to with Formula One racing decades ago. They'd butcher the hell outta the information.


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## Kian (May 3, 2009)

in all honesty, the vast majority of people wouldn't consider cup stacking or cubing sport. And I don't disagree.


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## pjk (May 3, 2009)

Why can't speedstacking and speedcubing both be sports? Speedstacking shouldn't tick you off...

Also, you realize that the even they are talking about it the World Championship, right? If Erik set the WR at Worlds, I'm guessing it would have got a lot more attention.


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## qqwref (May 3, 2009)

Still, speedstacking is just a single repetitive motion, and all it requires is hand speed and practice. In comparison speedcubing requires hand/finger speed, good recognition, memory (since you have to be able to recall one of over a hundred different situations, if you use Fridrich), and problem-solving ability (for any intuitive steps such as cross). Speedcubing is a much more difficult and 'deep' sport than speedstacking in my opinion, so I'm also bothered by seeing speedstacking get more and better press coverage than cubing.

On the other hand, the truth of the matter is that speedstacking will always be more popular simply because it is ridiculously easy. Literally anyone can do it... there are no mental or physical hurdles to overcome to be able to do a cycle - you just learn the motions. The fact that it is so trivial (and that cubing is so difficult at a beginning level) means that fast speedstackers will always have more fans. If anyone can try speedstacking, anyone can be impressed at a fast cycle... if few people can solve a cube, few people will know how impressive a fast time is.

In public I don't really feel proud of being good at cubing... it is almost embarrassing because of the way people think of it. Instead of being an extremely impressive skill, people think that it requires so much practice and intelligence that only a dork with no social life could be good at it. While this may be true of other sports as well - golf, for instance, is almost completely based on technique and mental skill - cubing is so hard to get into that instead of being impressive it just looks like a waste of time.


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## Odin (May 3, 2009)

Speed stacking and speed solving is very similar: We scramble then solve as fast as we can, They stack and un-stack as fast as they can.IM FIRING UP MY FLAME SHEILDS


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## IamWEB (May 3, 2009)

Speedcubing is much more complex.
Didn't speedstacking start first (not counting the 80's)? And it was also something new, with their own company starting out. Rubik's Cubes are well known, and they have been around for awhile, and the crave has been starting up again. We can't really make our own company, because there's already Rubik's for that.
We're using a toy/puzzle companies for our own enjoyment, and are turning it into our own thing.
Speedstacks introduced itself as a mini-sport...

Not easy to explain, but it's easy to see why there are able to be more successful. But we can easily change that, get more people involved, get more organized, we need money. I remember Erik mentioned wanting a sponsor. As long as he was winning comps, a sponsor could pay for him to go to competitions. So much to do...
We're still somewhat early in speedcubing/cubing's comeback, so we can expand.
Not to take from speedstacking's popularity, but to add on to our own.


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## JTW2007 (May 3, 2009)

Yeah, they have fast hands. But we have fast hands *AND* we think while we move fast.


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## brunson (May 3, 2009)

We should get rid of Magic.


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## JTW2007 (May 3, 2009)

Yeah. I agree.


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## blah (May 3, 2009)

brunson said:


> We should get rid of Magic.



Bob, got anything to say about that?


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## blah (May 3, 2009)

> Nearly 700 athletes from a dozen countries — including Colombia, New Zealand, Switzerland and Taiwan — traveled to Denver for the tournament.



They should really take a look at our Worlds.

Athletes. Wow. Athletes.


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## Kian (May 3, 2009)

brunson said:


> We should get rid of Magic.



I don't see the logic in getting rid of events. If a competition doesn't want to host it, that's fine. I don't see what it hurts to have an event still be official, though. Even though I think magic (as it is now) is silly, I don't see the mere fact that we have some records on the WCA database being any problem.


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## byu (May 3, 2009)

Kian said:


> brunson said:
> 
> 
> > We should get rid of Magic.
> ...



They should "disable" it like they did to the Old Multi-BLD. The results are still there, but nobody competes anymore.


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## JustinJ (May 3, 2009)

Kian said:


> brunson said:
> 
> 
> > We should get rid of Magic.
> ...



I agree. Magic takes away practically no time from a competition, and if people enjoy it, why get rid of it? It also doesn't seem fair to get rid of an event that people have practiced to get fast at. It makes all of that practice a waste of time.

More on-topic, I agree with what IamWEB said. Speedstacking is, on the exterior, a competitive sport, whereas on the outside a Rubik's cube is simply a puzzle, and the average person never sees the competitive nature of it. (if that's what he meant) So obviously Speedstacking is going to gain more attention as a sport.


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## brunson (May 3, 2009)

Kian said:


> brunson said:
> 
> 
> > We should get rid of Magic.
> ...


I was pointing out the double standard. Subtlety is apparently lost on many here.


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## abr71310 (May 3, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Well it's not big enough in the world yet so they'll get all the information wrong like they used to with Formula One racing decades ago. They'd butcher the hell outta the information.



Then why did the WC2003 and WC2005 get so much attention? Especially after Dan Knights set the WR of 20.00 average of 5 at WC2003? He was on a bunch of TV things, and WC2005 had at least enough reception to make it to local / national Canadian television... and even a documentary!!!

I've yet to see a speedstacking documentary... 



Yalow said:


> More on-topic, I agree with what IamWEB said. Speedstacking is, on the exterior, a competitive sport, whereas on the outside a Rubik's cube is simply a puzzle, and the average person never sees the competitive nature of it. (if that's what he meant) So obviously Speedstacking is going to gain more attention as a sport.



On the topic of "athletes", we had a discussion in my SCIALL class about the definition of a sport.

We came to the conclusion that a sport must involve the following aspects:
-- Usable equipment that can be modified slightly without changing the nature of the game.
-- Competitors that either play on a team or individually.
-- Standard set-up for each game / match.
-- Needs to be practiced and honed to get better at
-- Requires some form of skill other than that of physical ability.

Under those conditions, both Speedstacking and Speedcubing fall under the definition, yet the kids in my class were all quick to jump on me for saying that cubing was sport (just cuz I'm always doing it... ).... nobody said ANYTHING against speedstacking being a sport.

I don't understand the world...

I also don't get why one thing would get more attention for being a (somewhat) localized "sport" (I will NEVER consider it a sport until they get national teams for a competition held in some country with mass media coverage and betting rings... LOL), like speedstacking, and something like speedcubing is ignored the second the media finds some other gopher-wagon (for lack of a better phrase) to pounce on the second the opportunity comes...


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## moogra (May 3, 2009)

Speedstacking is as lame as magic is. I'm decent at magic, and that's only because I've practiced it a LOT. I bet if I spent the time on speedstacking, I could be nearly as good as any of those people. They probably stacked a few thousand times. I've solved a magic a few thousands times. Both take no brainpower.

Speedcubing takes much more skill. You can stuff as many algorithms into your head but it still takes quick thinking. I know a person who knows just as many algorithms as I do and solves it in 35 seconds. I can nearly solve 2 or even 2 before he can solve it once. I'm not even considered fast.

My point is Speedcubing is every bit a sport as speedstacking. To me, both aren't real sports, just great hobbies (but I've never tried speedstacking, i'm relating it to magic).


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## cmhardw (May 3, 2009)

Have any of you bashing sport stacking ever been to the Sport Stacking World Championships? Well I have, in 2006, and it was totally awesome. The culture there is very similar to the culture of cubing, and the people were absolutely the nicest people, and very cool to hang out with. Also like cubing, they were friendly towards beginner/intermediate people such as myself.

At risk of being the a**hole, all those bashing sport stacking because it gets more coverage than cubing can STFU. Sport Stacking is cool, and the people are great - end of story. Try to be more constructive about how we can increase the media coverage of cubing rather than bashing the sport stacking people. I honestly take offense to that.

Chris


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## JustinJ (May 3, 2009)

abr71310 said:


> We came to the conclusion that a sport must involve the following aspects:
> *-- Usable equipment that can be modified slightly without changing the nature of the game.*


I don't understand the purpose of this rule. What about something like wrestling or running? Those use some form of equipment, but they aren't really necessary to my knowledge.


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## abr71310 (May 3, 2009)

Yalow said:


> abr71310 said:
> 
> 
> > We came to the conclusion that a sport must involve the following aspects:
> ...



It was a broader definition, really...
Running requires shoes.
Wrestling requires a mat of some sort...

Either and both of which can be modified.

@Chris: Sorry mate.


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## Dene (May 3, 2009)

Ok I didn't bother to read the thread other than the first post, but LOL at anyone that _actually_ gets angry over something that really doesn't matter at all.


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## jcuber (May 3, 2009)

Dene said:


> *Ok I didn't bother to read the thread other than the first post*, but LOL at anyone that _actually_ gets angry over something that really doesn't matter at all.



and that is why we all hate Dene.


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## qqwref (May 3, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> At risk of being the a**hole, all those bashing sport stacking because it gets more coverage than cubing can STFU. Sport Stacking is cool, and the people are great - end of story. Try to be more constructive about how we can increase the media coverage of cubing rather than bashing the sport stacking people. I honestly take offense to that.



Personally I don't have anything against people who do speedstacking... but I DO think speedstacking itself is silly. (Mind you, I think football is silly too.) I'm against speedstacking getting more coverage than cubing but NOT because I hate the people, rather because I think cubing is a much more interesting activity (i.e. we could be doing so much better).


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## mazei (May 3, 2009)

qqwref said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > At risk of being the a**hole, all those bashing sport stacking because it gets more coverage than cubing can STFU. Sport Stacking is cool, and the people are great - end of story. Try to be more constructive about how we can increase the media coverage of cubing rather than bashing the sport stacking people. I honestly take offense to that.
> ...



Which football? American or soccer?

I don't mind SpeedStacking being called a sport and those who do it called athletes. I could say the same thing for sprinting. "You're just running 100m over and over again". But heck it's a sport where people compete. And I think thats where the definition of sports is. An activity people compete in(with those other definitions given by abr71310).


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## qqwref (May 3, 2009)

American football, because all of the strategy is pretty much done by the coaches, and all the players have to learn to do is be muscular and throw/catch a football. Any sport which starts out with most of the two teams basically colliding into each other is just dumb.


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## Ellis (May 3, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Any sport which starts out with most of the two teams basically colliding into each other is just dumb.



I often think that's what speedcubing is missing. Everyone would love it more if that's what happened and it would always been on TV. Can we start doing that?


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## JBCM627 (May 3, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> Try to be more constructive about how we can increase the media coverage of cubing rather than bashing the sport stacking people.


Ditto this^^



qqwref said:


> ... all of the strategy is pretty much done by the coaches, and all the players have to learn to do is be muscular and throw/catch a football...


Wow. Well, the only thing cubers have to do is learn flashy fingertricks.


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## IamWEB (May 3, 2009)

^^^"Ditto this"

What? That's exactly what I said


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## soccerking813 (May 3, 2009)

mazei said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > cmhardw said:
> ...



Well, according to that, then the Spelling Bee is also a sport.

Maybe someone should write to ESPN or some other major sports network telling them about speedcubing.


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## holypasta (May 3, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> Yeah, they have fast hands. But we have fast hands *AND* we think while we move fast.



good point.


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## Lord Voldemort (May 3, 2009)

qqwref said:


> if few people can solve a cube, few people will know how impressive a fast time is.



I don't understand that...
Once people know how to solve a cube, those 10.xx world records are still impressive, but if someone had showed me that before I knew how to solve it, I would have been like "Whoa!!!! That's impossible!!!"


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## EmersonHerrmann (May 3, 2009)

I bet that somewhere on a major forum....speedstackers are bashing us (for reasons currently unknown), and aside from that, on the forum, they are talking about speedstacking stuff that is different but "parallel" to our own stuff. Like Chris said, their sport is similar, but different in the sense they do/use different things.

P.S. - In my first post it might have seemed as if I was angered about speedstacking, but I'm really angered about the idiots who posted an entire article on the front page of a somewhat majorly(?) used news website.


Edit: *Reads some more of article* Alright now I really, REALLY don't like how they covered this. I bet people consider speedcubing less of a sport just because to society is seems GEEKISH. That's right. I said it. Damn society and their criticizms.


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## pcharles93 (May 3, 2009)

If it makes you guys feel better, http://www.cracked.com/article_17309_6-people-with-amazing-abilities-that-are-totally-useless.html


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## Odin (May 3, 2009)

pcharles93 said:


> If it makes you guys feel better, http://www.cracked.com/article_17309_6-people-with-amazing-abilities-that-are-totally-useless.html



That did make me feel better >.<


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## ExoCorsair (May 3, 2009)

abr71310 said:


> We came to the conclusion that a sport must involve the following aspects:
> -- Usable equipment that can be modified slightly without changing the nature of the game.
> -- Competitors that either play on a team or individually.
> -- Standard set-up for each game / match.
> ...



So, StarCraft and Counter-Strike and other computer games played at a competitive level are also sports, eh?

Same thing with challenging people at Word Challenge and Tetris Friends on Facebook?

*is reminded of a thread on sports on here a while ago*


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## shelley (May 3, 2009)

soccerking813 said:


> Maybe someone should write to ESPN or some other major sports network telling them about speedcubing.



We actually thought about doing that a while ago, when we were trying to get sponsors/coverage for one of the US Nationals competitions (don't remember if it was 2007 or 2008). I looked all over the ESPN website but couldn't find the right person to contact for this kind of thing though.


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## soccerking813 (May 3, 2009)

Yea, if someone attacks you you can throw a card into their face and run.

But I like card throwing too. It is fun.


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## EmersonHerrmann (May 3, 2009)

pcharles93 said:


> If it makes you guys feel better, http://www.cracked.com/article_17309_6-people-with-amazing-abilities-that-are-totally-useless.html



That was really funny...I have to give him props though, he moves pretty damn fast


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## Lord Voldemort (May 3, 2009)

pcharles93 said:


> If it makes you guys feel better, http://www.cracked.com/article_17309_6-people-with-amazing-abilities-that-are-totally-useless.html



The etch-a-sketch dude is amazing. (#1 on their list)


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## qqwref (May 3, 2009)

Lord Voldemort said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > if few people can solve a cube, few people will know how impressive a fast time is.
> ...



Let me put it this way: if someone doesn't know how to solve a cube, they won't see a 15-second solve (or even a 30-second solve) as being any different from a 10-second solve. To them it's all just solving a Rubik's Cube quickly which is impossible anyway. If someone has not put effort into trying to speedsolve, they won't understand how much more work and skill goes into a 10-second solve than into a 15-second one.



ExoCorsair said:


> So, StarCraft and Counter-Strike and other computer games played at a competitive level are also sports, eh?



Why wouldn't they be?


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## EmersonHerrmann (May 3, 2009)

I agree with Michael, to the standard public, 15 seconds is not very far away from 10 seconds. To speedcubers, it's a big skip.


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## abr71310 (May 4, 2009)

Ellis said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > Any sport which starts out with most of the two teams basically colliding into each other is just dumb.
> ...



I'm pretty sure we can do that; don't we already sometimes host live video feeds at competitions??

If we tipped off the media somehow or got them interested, maybe Worlds can be broadcast worldwide (if we gave them enough notice... or public interest??)!!

Or at least some local competitions, that could lead up to worlds maybe in 2010!! 

It's all a matter of publicity, methinks; any "sport" which can be performed well is, needless to say, impressive to those who can't do it... all we have to do is show our stuff to the right people and we'll be at the top in no time!


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## JTW2007 (May 4, 2009)

I don't support the mainstream-ness of cup stacking, but I also don't support popularizing speedcubing. I think one of the things it has going for it is that it hasn't been corrupted by the media or the masses.


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## Thieflordz5 (May 5, 2009)

I couldn't even make it through the first... 3 paragraphs without a giant sigh and a face-palm...

This saddens me... 
I want to cry right now, but I'm doing homework...



That fox place said:


> Many competitors believe cup-stacking should be recognized as an Olympic sport. It takes intense focus and a deft ambidexterity honed by hours of practice. Friends may scoff — "They think it's totally goofy," 17-year-old Dustin Gonzalez said at the competition — but veteran stackers know the truth: Fingers cramp. Legs tremble. Foreheads bead with sweat.


HAHAHAHAHA OMFG THAT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE FUNNIEST THINGS I HAVE EVER READ!!! XD


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## Poke (May 5, 2009)

Thieflordz5 said:


> I couldn't even make it through the first... 3 paragraphs without a giant sigh and a face-palm...
> 
> This saddens me...
> I want to cry right now, but I'm doing homework...
> ...


 
"Fingers cramp. Foreheads bead with sweat." Rubik's Wrist, Dangerous flyng projectiles from pops, inhaling lubricant.


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## Thieflordz5 (May 5, 2009)

Poke said:


> Thieflordz5 said:
> 
> 
> > I couldn't even make it through the first... 3 paragraphs without a giant sigh and a face-palm...
> ...



Cubing is obviously MUCH more dangerous than speed-stacks


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## qqwref (May 5, 2009)

I think it's pretty hilarious that they think it should be an Olympic sport (hell, I don't think either that OR cubing shout ever be an Olympic sport... or anything with teams...), and also that the best examples they can think of of speedstacking being difficult is that people get nervous XD There's really no stamina and very little athletic ability involved at all in speedstacking (or 3x3 - but the bigger cubes definitely have a physical stamina element) so it's pretty funny to hear people talking about it as if it requires a lifetime of intense physical and mental training.


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## rahulkadukar (May 5, 2009)

Speedcubing is a better and more intellectual sport as compared to stacking


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## soccerking813 (May 5, 2009)

Usually sports do not at first glance* appear to require intellect, which is one reason cubing is not considered a sport.

*If you look into it, any sport requires intellect, just not as obvious as cubing.


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## Cloud_9ine (May 5, 2009)

I personally feel its jsut the anti-intelectuallist veirw of the public and how it applys to speedcubing. I think cause of this stacking is to cubing the way Frid is to intuitive methods when it comes to intuitive brain use. (No offense to Frid users)


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## qqwref (May 5, 2009)

It's more like the very easiest beginners methods to Fridrich. People want something they can just do the same every time, not something where they have to think, and look out for situations where they can be more efficient by doing something a little different. Intuitive F2L isn't really any harder than LBL, but it does require a lot more thought and understanding, and I think many people have an aversion to that.


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## shelley (May 6, 2009)

Hey, just curious... of the people who think speedstacking is lame, how many would be upset if we removed Magic/Master Magic from the WCA official events?


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## ConnorCuber (May 6, 2009)

shelley said:


> Hey, just curious... of the people who think speedstacking is lame, how many would be upset if we removed Magic/Master Magic from the WCA official events?



Me !


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## EmersonHerrmann (May 6, 2009)

Oh, Michael:

You talked early about differences in times and how the public views times differently than speedcubers. What about how they view speedstacker times?


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## MistArts (May 6, 2009)

shelley said:


> Hey, just curious... of the people who think speedstacking is lame, how many would be upset if we removed Magic/Master Magic from the WCA official events?



I'll be upset. It should be modified, not removed.


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## Lord Voldemort (May 6, 2009)

shelley said:


> Hey, just curious... of the people who think speedstacking is lame, how many would be upset if we removed Magic/Master Magic from the WCA official events?



I wouldn't care.
Magic doesn't take very much time, but I think it's set up sort of dumb.


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## qqwref (May 6, 2009)

shelley said:


> Hey, just curious... of the people who think speedstacking is lame, how many would be upset if we removed Magic/Master Magic from the WCA official events?



Speedstacking is lame. And so are the Magics.

But that doesn't mean nobody should be allowed to compete in those events. A lot of people enjoy/practice them, and as far as magic and master magic are concerned they take up very little time in a competition. Even if you or I think Magics are silly, it does not give us the right to deny everyone in the world from competing in them.


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## Thieflordz5 (May 6, 2009)

EmersonHerrmann said:


> Oh, Michael:
> 
> You talked early about differences in times and how the public views times differently than speedcubers. What about how they view speedstacker times?



I don't know... The public just realizes that it's easier than impossible, and they think that there's some kind of mathematical "formula" to it and if you know it, you can solve it sub-15 or something...


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## anythingtwisty (May 6, 2009)

hey, you guys shouldn't be so hard on this "sport". if people like it and it doesn't really bother you, it's fine. kinda what i think of baseball, jus "meh". and where do you think the name "stackmat" came from. (i do not cup stack, btw)


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## shelley (May 6, 2009)

qqwref said:


> shelley said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, just curious... of the people who think speedstacking is lame, how many would be upset if we removed Magic/Master Magic from the WCA official events?
> ...



Just because they're not WCA official doesn't mean you can't enjoy them or even compete in them anymore. But why spend any time and energy at all on those events when the cube and other twisty puzzles deserve more recognition?


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## qqwref (May 6, 2009)

shelley said:


> Just because they're not WCA official doesn't mean you can't enjoy them or even compete in them anymore. But why spend any time and energy at all on those events when the cube and other twisty puzzles deserve more recognition?



That's the thing, you don't have to spend any time or energy on them. Nobody important will complain if you just refuse to hold Magic at a competition (or if you say that you will only have Magic if someone else will agree to run it). But if you make it unofficial, you prevent *everyone* from doing it, and since there are so many people who enjoy Magic I don't think that can be justified.


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## shelley (May 6, 2009)

How would that prevent someone from making a World Rubik's Magic Association if they want to compete in it that badly?

Anyway, my point is that people are bashing speedstacking, but then when it comes to Rubik's Magic they all defend it, even though they're practically the same thing.

I really don't think news coverage of speedstacking is anything to get angry about. Realize that the public's perception of stacking cups is very different from solving Rubik's cubes anyway.


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## Thieflordz5 (May 6, 2009)

shelley said:


> How would that prevent someone from making a World Rubik's Magic Association if they want to compete in it that badly?
> 
> Anyway, my point is that people are bashing speedstacking, but then when it comes to Rubik's Magic they all defend it, even though they're practically the same thing.
> 
> I really don't think news coverage of speedstacking is anything to get angry about. Realize that the public's perception of stacking cups is very different from solving Rubik's cubes anyway.



Well, people are just getting angry about the LACK of news coverage on cubing...
They get all the 'glory' and all they're doing is stacking cups!
We actually have to think...


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## shelley (May 6, 2009)

Aside from the speed factor, it's not as if speedstacking and cubing are similar sports. You might as well complain that baseball gets more coverage than cubing.


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## Tyson (May 6, 2009)

shelley said:


> Aside from the speed factor, it's not as if speedstacking and cubing are similar sports. You might as well complain that baseball gets more coverage than cubing.



Yeah, how can you bash cup stacking when there's magic? Cup stacking is more of a sport than Rubik's Magic.

And to be honest... I think I know why SpeedStacks has that type of coverage. They have a PR department. Hasbro isn't investing any money into PR, and Winning Moves is a small company.

Think about what SpeedStacks is. It's a single company invented by Mr. Fox who turned HIS product into a sport, and in order to compete in this sport, you pretty much need to use his product. So naturally, if you market, more people will buy the product.

Pretty ingenious if you ask me...


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## SnappleXXL (May 6, 2009)

I used to sport stack, It gets really boring after a while. For one, its not as good as cubing because you cant collect. All the cups are pretty much the same. Also there aren't many variations, you do the same routine pretty much all the time.

I got pretty fast, and I do think it deserves a 'sport' status but its not hard, anyone can do it. However cubing takes alot more effort and brain power, thats why cubing is great. Lol


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## Tyson (May 6, 2009)

SnappleXXL said:


> I used to sport stack, It gets really boring after a while. For one, its not as good as cubing because you cant collect. All the cups are pretty much the same. Also there aren't many variations, you do the same routine pretty much all the time.
> 
> I got pretty fast, and I do think it deserves a 'sport' status but its not hard, anyone can do it. However cubing takes alot more effort and brain power, thats why cubing is great. Lol



Well, hmm... perhaps. I have met the 8 year-old in person... he is ridiculously fast. I tried to race him where he had to do two cycles to my one and he destroyed me.

I then beat him on the cube. 

I have this rule, where if Stephen Hawking can beat you, it's not a sport. Stephen Hawking, if sufficiently trained, could beat me in chess. As such, I don't consider chess a sport.


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## qqwref (May 6, 2009)

Tyson said:


> Yeah, how can you bash cup stacking when there's magic? Cup stacking is more of a sport than Rubik's Magic.



That's how I think of it - cup stacking and Magic are basically the same thing. So to me it is like Rubik's Magic getting way more press coverage than 3x3 (let alone any other event).

You can see why I don't like it. But unlike you and Shelley I don't agree that just because Magic is a stupid boring fail event it should be made unofficial.


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## mpohl100 (May 6, 2009)

In my opinion, there are two strong reasons why Sport stacking gets more press coverage than cubing:

1. Sport stacking represents the average intellect way more.
2. Steven Purugannan: very sensational that a 10/11 year old is the fastest in the world. That's more attention-grabbing than some older guy being the world champion at cubing.

Now imagine what would happen if Mats Valk/ Durben Virtucio or some other youngster would become World champion at the 3x3 event. I think if that happens cubing would also get much more press coverage


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## Tyson (May 6, 2009)

mpohl100 said:


> In my opinion, there are two strong reasons why Sport stacking gets more press coverage than cubing:
> 
> 1. Sport stacking represents the average intellect way more.
> 2. Steven Purugannan: very sensational that a 10/11 year old is the fastest in the world. That's more attention-grabbing than some older guy being the world champion at cubing.
> ...



Or, it would take away from the integrity of the sport. Imagine if you had some 8 year-old as the world champion of chess. All those 18 to 23 year-olds would feel worthless.


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## JTW2007 (May 7, 2009)

Tyson said:


> Or, it would take away from the integrity of the sport. Imagine if you had some 8 year-old as the world champion of chess. All those 18 to 23 year-olds would feel worthless.



Good point.

I love chess...


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## qqwref (May 7, 2009)

I don't know about WORLD champion, Tyson, but at any given point there's typically at least one child Chess prodigy who is, unless you're really highly ranked in Chess yourself, better than you and very young (for instance Ivana Maria Furtado had a FIDE rating of ~1850 in late 2007, at age 8). I don't think this really takes away from the sport or necessarily has to make older players feel "worthless" - they might be destroyed by a much younger player, but they should realize that the younger player will almost certainly be even better by the time he/she is 18-20.


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## JTW2007 (May 7, 2009)

qqwref said:


> (for instance Ivana Maria Furtado had a FIDE rating of ~1850 in late 2007, at age 8)



What!? 1850!? That's insane.


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## Tyson (May 7, 2009)

Eh, I mean these types of things happen all the time. But what if an 8 year-old were at the top of the rankings?

_Illya Nyzhnyk wins Group B

Now comes the interesting part: Group B (and please note: not the children's section) was won by Illya Nyzhnyk, who scored 8.5/9 points with a 2633 performance. The point is that this Ukrainian player, nominally rated 2217, is just ten years old! We are going to have to watch the boy carefully, and even learn to pronounce his name._

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3655

10 year-old FM... (though somebody PLEASE BUY HIM A VOWEL)


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## Mike Hughey (May 7, 2009)

I like his holding the teddy bear. Just adds to the effect.


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## Daniel Wu (May 7, 2009)

Ha ha. In the vid. He's walking around with the teddy bear. 
It must be a tactic. It makes the person he's facing think 'oh wow. i can crush him' and then the little kid goes in and dominates. Clever. lol.


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## JLarsen (May 7, 2009)

Lord Voldemort said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > if few people can solve a cube, few people will know how impressive a fast time is.
> ...


In any talent, were the person is incredibly far better than the observer, the observer is not actually capable of comprehending exactly how amazing what just happened in front of them really is. With cubing in particular people have noidea what is going on in the slightest, so how could they appreciate it in full? Now for an example other then cubing, drumming, or any instrument for that matter. If people see speed or hear something that sounds fast, they automatically say "Woah! He's good!" But they can't comprehend how difficult (complex) it is to play. 



Thieflordz5 said:


> EmersonHerrmann said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, Michael:
> ...


This is the ignorance I'm talking about. They think we're doing something similar to group theory at 12 tps. Truth is, half the solve we're just spamming algs that we have memorized and done thousands of times.


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## Thieflordz5 (May 8, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Thieflordz5 said:
> 
> 
> > EmersonHerrmann said:
> ...



No, what I mean is that they think that we're just using something like God's Alg on different sides to solve everything, they don't know that we actually have to think during a solve (at least 100 times more than speed-stacks) where Speed-stacks are just muscle memory, stack up, stack down... 
If solving were muscle memory (the type that speed-stacks is) then spamming something like RUR' would solve (which is really stupid...)


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## waffle=ijm (May 8, 2009)

magic takes so little time thats there's no point in removing it. even though its just repetition, it shows who dexterous some people are. isn't that the same as solving the cube? You repeat algorithms and solve as fast as you can. yeah magic takes no brain but neither does the cube after a while.


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## qqwref (May 8, 2009)

Thieflordz5 said:


> No, what I mean is that they think that we're just using something like God's Alg on different sides to solve everything, they don't know that we actually have to think during a solve (at least 100 times more than speed-stacks) where Speed-stacks are just muscle memory, stack up, stack down...
> If solving were muscle memory (the type that speed-stacks is) then spamming something like RUR' would solve (which is really stupid...)



I agree - I think when a lot of people (who have NOT solved a cube before) look at a fast solver, they think he just knows what to do at the start, so it's just "execute the moves as fast as they can". You have to try cubing out yourself to realize that the fastest cubers are not just spamming moves, but that they actually have to figure out where the pieces are and remember what to do with them as they go.


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## Poke (May 8, 2009)

Ahhh.... Memories. I remember when I got "1 side" when I was about 8.


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## shelley (May 8, 2009)

waffle=ijm said:


> *magic takes so little time thats there's no point in removing it*. even though its just repetition, it shows who dexterous some people are. isn't that the same as solving the cube? You repeat algorithms and solve as fast as you can. yeah magic takes no brain but neither does the cube after a while.



Why not have a competition for who can do the T perm the fastest? It's pretty much the same thing.

Magic doesn't take long, but it still does take time. At large competitions, a short amount of time multiplied by a large number of people ends up being a considerable amount of time and occupied timers. And at certain competitions when we run so short on time that we have to make big cube cutoffs ridiculous (1:10 on 4x4 in order to complete an average?) I don't think you can make the argument of "well, it takes so little time, might as well leave it in."

Maybe we should just add a bunch of silly little events involving things that are not puzzles. If people have fun with them and they don't take much time, might as well, right?


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## waffle=ijm (May 8, 2009)

shelley said:


> waffle=ijm said:
> 
> 
> > *magic takes so little time thats there's no point in removing it*. even though its just repetition, it shows who dexterous some people are. isn't that the same as solving the cube? You repeat algorithms and solve as fast as you can. yeah magic takes no brain but neither does the cube after a while.
> ...



Well, I agree with ridiculous cutoff times. The only reason I tried to make an argument is that I like magic. If you feel the removal of it as a side event is needed, then I won't argue anymore. I just thought I'd throw that in there as my own opinion and nothing else.


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## qqwref (May 8, 2009)

shelley said:


> Why not have a competition for who can do the T perm the fastest? It's pretty much the same thing.



Hey, that's a good idea.

More seriously, if you think Magic takes up too much time, just don't do it... I mean, if it's a big competition like SFO09 or Nationals, it still doesn't mean you have to hold Magic, especially if it would seriously cut into the time for real events. You can always treat it like it's not an event (just like we do with 3feet, in most of America), without forcing everyone else in the world to not do it.


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