# [Indian NR] Akash Rupela 6.91 3x3 single



## aashritspidey (Jul 27, 2014)

Akash rupela got a 6.91 3X3 single at Indian nationals 2014. It was a PLL skip. WR 34 GJ


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## PJKCuber (Jul 27, 2014)

Aww.. I wanted to break this in the future. GJ Akash !


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## PeelingStickers (Jul 27, 2014)

wut... his previous best was 15.27 in comp o.0

congrats


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## aashritspidey (Jul 27, 2014)

LOL wut no. You're looking at the person who posted this (me)'s profile  Akash had a previous best of 8.29


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## PeelingStickers (Jul 27, 2014)

oh lol, that would explain it, sub-7 is still pretty damn good in comp though


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## Ninja Storm (Jul 27, 2014)

Very impressive!


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## Akash Rupela (Jul 27, 2014)

Ninja Storm said:


> Very impressive!




Thanks


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## Genius4Jesus (Jul 27, 2014)

PeelingStickers said:


> wut... his previous best was 15.27 in comp o.0
> 
> congrats



I think the person you are talking about is the guy who started this thread. 

Not the person (Akash Rupela) who broke the record.


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## 10461394944000 (Jul 27, 2014)

lol india reactions

R2 L U' F' U2 F B R2 D2 R' B' U2 F U' L2 D L2 D' B2

R' B' L R' F R'
U' R' U R U' y' R' U' R
y' R' U R U' R' U R
U' U2 F R U R' U' x z' r' F R U R' U' F' U'

lol solve


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## Robert-Y (Jul 27, 2014)

"Pure" OLL to finish ftw 

Congrats Akash!


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## Akash Rupela (Jul 28, 2014)

10461394944000 said:


> lol india reactions
> 
> lol solve



Lol ikr !
Thanks for the reconstruction 


Robert-Y said:


> "Pure" OLL to finish ftw
> 
> Congrats Akash!



Thanks Man! Cheers on 6.91


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## RayLam (Jul 28, 2014)

wow,NR again,congratz


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## Iggy (Jul 28, 2014)

Wow well done!


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## Sessinator (Jul 28, 2014)

Nice solve! So much enthusiasm from the crowd.


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## Akash Rupela (Jul 29, 2014)

Thanks everyone. Your comments mean a lot  I hope i will get a NL sub7 one day


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## Akash Rupela (Aug 4, 2014)

Apologies to everyone, this solve has been converted to a DNF because of a one move error in the scramble(which had not been verified earlier) that was spotted only now. The Indian NR is 8.29 seconds again . I hope it will be broken soon again


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## DuffyEdge (Aug 4, 2014)

Akash Rupela said:


> Apologies to everyone, this solve has been converted to a DNF because of a one move error in the scramble(which had not been verified earlier) that was spotted only now. The Indian NR is 8.29 seconds again . I hope it will be broken soon again


That's a shame


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## ajayd (Aug 4, 2014)

Seriously? This isn't even your fault or anything, just a 1 move miscramble. GL on reclaiming this record later


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## Rubiks560 (Aug 6, 2014)

wtf. The WCA can DNF solves if not scrambled right? That's not even the competitors fault.


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## Genius4Jesus (Aug 6, 2014)

Rubiks560 said:


> wtf. The WCA can DNF solves if not scrambled right? That's not even the competitors fault.



Ya, one time I was at a scrambling station, and some other guy was helping too. After the other guy had scrambled 20-30 cubes, I realized he was not scrambling in the correct orientation and was very confused with notation. All of those solves have not and should not be DNFed!


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## Akash Rupela (Aug 6, 2014)

Rubiks560 said:


> wtf. The WCA can DNF solves if not scrambled right? That's not even the competitors fault.



Yeah. Not competitors fault but WCA thinks it's fair that way and I accept the decision  . The sadder part is i dont get a resolve and become 4th instead of 1st 
Can a mod please move this to official solves forum?

It is clear that there was one 'accidental' turn in the scramble, the scramble matches if one R' turn is replaced by R


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## BillyRain (Aug 6, 2014)

That's bull. Totally not your fault. 

Hey while we are at it... let's DNF every single 6x6 and 7x7 solve ever done in the UK. Cus people get those scrambles right every time :s


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## obelisk477 (Aug 6, 2014)

BillyRain said:


> That's bull. Totally not your fault.
> 
> Hey while we are at it... let's DNF every single 6x6 and 7x7 solve ever done in the UK. Cus people get those scrambles right every time :s



https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#4g1

4g1) Exception: For the 6x6x6 Cube, 7x7x7 Cube, and Megaminx, it is not necessary to correct the scramble, at the discretion of the WCA Delegate.


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## BillyRain (Aug 6, 2014)

obelisk477 said:


> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#4g1
> 
> 4g1) Exception: For the 6x6x6 Cube, 7x7x7 Cube, and Megaminx, it is not necessary to correct the scramble, at the discretion of the WCA Delegate.



Lol. Somuch inconsistency.


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## Goosly (Aug 6, 2014)

BillyRain said:


> Hey while we are at it... let's DNF every single 6x6 and 7x7 solve ever done in the UK. Cus people get those scrambles right every time :s



There's an exception for 6x6 and 7x7 in the regulations.
_4g1) Exception: For the 6x6x6 Cube, 7x7x7 Cube, and Megaminx, it is not necessary to correct the scramble, at the discretion of the WCA Delegate._

If this fault would have been noticed in the competition, he would've gotten a rescramble to replace this DNF. But unfortunately this is now impossible, since the competition is over. By the way, if anyone suggests that this solve should be legit because it's the scramblers fault and not the competitors, I'll "accidentally" misscramble Mats' cube at the next competition in the Netherlands and give him an easy triple x-cross. The solve would obviously be legit because it was my fault and not Mats'.


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## XTowncuber (Aug 6, 2014)

Wait what? Since when have we DNF'd misscrambled solves??


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## Kirjava (Aug 6, 2014)

XTowncuber said:


> Wait what? Since when have we DNF'd misscrambled solves??



Since forever


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## Robert-Y (Aug 6, 2014)

So if this had happened at least twice in the world championship finals for Feliks, he wouldn't be world champion?


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## Musicalboy2 (Aug 6, 2014)

Robert-Y said:


> So if this had happened at least twice in the world championship finals for Feliks, he wouldn't be world champion?



A good question, but I think people would have a natural tendency check the scramble more carefully if they were scrambling for 3x3 finals of worlds or nats or any big comp.


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## XTowncuber (Aug 6, 2014)

Kirjava said:


> Since forever


Wow, I really had no idea that was even a possibility.


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## uberCuber (Aug 6, 2014)

Robert-Y said:


> So if this had happened at least twice in the world championship finals for Feliks, he wouldn't be world champion?



And if it had happened even once to Collin last weekend, Rowe would be US champion instead (with Feliks winning the competition)


The fact that this is a possibility is so annoying...


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## Deleted member 19792 (Aug 6, 2014)

Genius4Jesus said:


> Ya, one time I was at a scrambling station, and some other guy was helping too. After the other guy had scrambled 20-30 cubes, I realized he was not scrambling in the correct orientation and was very confused with notation. All of those solves have not and should not be DNFed!



inb4 this becomes an unofficial competition.


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## Coolster01 (Aug 6, 2014)

Spoiler: inb4



ohey, it's a really good 2x2er, i'm gonna misscramble 2 of his solves and make them good scrambles, then he'll think he gets WR, but instead it becomes DNF average.


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## mati1242 (Aug 6, 2014)

The WCA decision is just ridiculous...


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## XTowncuber (Aug 6, 2014)

So like, what if I am scrambling for a round and I don't want someone to win...can't I just give them 2 easy misscrambles and then point it out in the video after the competition? Instant DNF average? That doesn't make sense.


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## MatejMuzatko (Aug 6, 2014)

That's why we should use Cubestormers instead of boring people!


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## Mikel (Aug 6, 2014)

DNFing this average makes sense. The solve was misscrambled and was not set under "fair conditions".



XTowncuber said:


> So like, what if I am scrambling for a round and I don't want someone to win...can't I just give them 2 easy misscrambles and then point it out in the video after the competition? Instant DNF average? That doesn't make sense.



If you or anyone else were to do this, I'm sure the WDC would ban you for a long time. It would be extremely unsportsmanlike to do so. The WCA relies on an honor system providing that judges and scramblers follow the regulations.

I know the scrambler in this instance did not do his job of checking the scramble, but if it were caught in the competition, Akash would be awarded a resolve. I'm hoping the scrambler made a mistake and was not doing it intentionally. I'm too slow to ever set a record like this, but if I ever did set a Continental or World record, I would check with the delegate to be sure I had the correct scramble before the end of the round so that I could do a resolve for that solve.


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## XTowncuber (Aug 6, 2014)

Mikel said:


> DNFing this average makes sense. The solve was misscrambled and was not set under "fair conditions".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Joe wins a major competition with a 9.55 second average. He posts the average online and someone points out that 2 of the solves were misscrambled. Joe's average becomes DNF. There were 2 scramblers for that round. Both scramblers say that the other person did the misscrambles. 

What happens now? 

pretty stupid hypothesis, but there does seem to be a bit of a loophole.


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## Akash Rupela (Aug 6, 2014)

I have seen prepared scrambles and totally unmatching scrambles being DNF'ed. But a scramble where its clearly proved as just a single move is wrong is the first time i have seen so. 

I have not verified three other solves in this average yet. Does this mean i should go ahead and check them also for a potential misscramble?(considering its the same scrambler, there is a probability of another error).
If any one of them is wrong, My first round gets DNF. My next 3 rounds all become invalid for not qualifying, the winner of the competition gets changed. In the stats list for most solves in a competition, i would go out of the list from currently being at 2nd place. It might be fair on the rules . But is it fair for me?
I am not saying this solve neccessarily be made revalid, My point is why do we have to stress on verification only of good solves? I think it should be made compulsary to verify scrambles for as many puzzles as possible and a scrambler found not verifying be eligible to be disqualified from the competition(or some ban?), and any capable person refusing to scramble is already eligible as per current regulations. There is no other way to get a very high level accuracy with using human scramblers and using robots is still not being feasible at least for a few years. Things should be same for all people, fast or slow. If i would have got a 12-13 second solve , i m 100% confident no one would have bothered to check the scramble. That part is not fair and as a delegate myself, I think some loopholes need to be fixed in the 2015 regulations . I accept the decision but I don't want this to happen to others


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## uberCuber (Aug 6, 2014)

(not addressed at a particular person)

Every time people film their solves and plan to upload them for people to see, should they check with the delegate to make sure their scrambles were correct on every single solve? Is that really the only way to ensure that they won't be DNF'd for something that isn't their fault?


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## Renslay (Aug 6, 2014)

uberCuber said:


> (not addressed at a particular person)
> 
> Every time people film their solves and plan to upload them for people to see, should they check with the delegate to make sure their scrambles were correct on every single solve? Is that really the only way to ensure that they won't be DNF'd for something that isn't their fault?



It seems so. So you have to ask everybody not to film you, or if you film yourself, make sure it's private. Share it at least half a year later.


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## kinch2002 (Aug 6, 2014)

Every time a solve gets DNFed a hundred people complain about it being a stupid decision by the WCA. How on earth can you think it was a fair record when it wasn't the right scramble, and therefore the regulations were not followed? Just because something isn't your fault doesn't mean you should be allowed whatever happened...I really can't understand how anyone could think this.

Sure, it's not a perfect process in place, because cubes do get mis-scrambled and situations like this arise, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong decision to wipe those times! Please find a better way to deal with situations like this before you rudely criticise.

If you want to allow this solve, what will you say when a 2x2 is mis-scrambled, leaving a 1 move solution? Not the competitors fault therefore it is allowed.

As for the 'loophole' of giving someone incorrect scrambles on purpose: Firstly, if you allow misscrambles then there's a loophole the other way too...give them hard scrambles on purpose. Secondly, it's called sportsmanship. I hope that everyone in this community wants to compete in a fair manner.

Please stop randomly calling decisions 'bull****' just because it makes you angry in the first second that you react to it. As someone deeply involved in the WCA it hurts to hear it.


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## Tim Major (Aug 6, 2014)

When the scramble is basically correct I think it has to be counted. There was a Thai NR with a miscramble but that was completely wrong, so it was understandably DNF'd. However this scramble is the same except for one move as the official scramble, so it obviously wasn't planted for a single.

Does this work in reverse? Say there's a four move 2x2 scramble and it's miscrambled for you to be 10 moves, would it get DNF'd?


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## Cube Is Life (Aug 6, 2014)

Tim Major said:


> Does this work in reverse? Say there's a four move 2x2 scramble and it's miscrambled for you to be 10 moves, would it get DNF'd?



Yes


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## uberCuber (Aug 7, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> stuff



As a delegate, do you have a response to my earlier question? I'm sure you wouldn't want to have to deal with checking a bunch of videos during the competition to verify scrambles, right? What would your response be if more than one person started doing that for all of their solves? Would you be allowed to say "no, I'm not going to check 25 filmed solves because I'm busy"? And if you did refuse, what would happen if one of those filmed solves ended up being a misscramble?

I have to ask these things because I _especially_ don't think it would be appreciated at large competitions like some nationals, euros, and worlds where staff is pretty busy, but it's the only solution I can see to prevent this aside from "refuse to have videos of your solves taken/uploaded."



Tim Major said:


> When the scramble is basically correct I think it has to be counted. There was a Thai NR with a miscramble but that was completely wrong, so it was understandably DNF'd. However this scramble is the same except for one move as the official scramble, so it obviously wasn't planted for a single.



Unfortunately, a one-move mistake can sometimes make a ridiculous difference


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## PhillipEspinoza (Aug 7, 2014)

I think you have a case here of what is called moral luck where decisions are based on the result or consequence (whether its a fast solve) rather than the actual injustice. If it's a misscramble, it's only DNF'd if it's fast ie. a NR/WR. It is obvious if its a repeat scramble and he got this time that it should be a DNF, but if he got a 10 second time on this scramble, it is doubtful as to whether or not it would even be reversed, even if found out to be one move off.

I agree, there should be consistency if the spirit of the rule is "fairness". Though fairness in this aspect proves to be not only burdensome and impractical, but pointless as well. Like Tim pointed out, would already bad solves be further retroactively DNF'd because it was proven to be misscrambled?

Note how there are no consequences for either the judge or delegate or competition organizers?

Simple solution to all this instead of reviewing videos would be to just review the scrambles to make sure they match before giving it to the cuber. Maybe if this is that big of a problem, there should be a scramble-checker who has to initial after each scrambler scrambles a cube?

EDIT: Does someone with Brest-like skills and a copy of scrambles from Finals want to review the final round of Nats just to maybe stir the pot if there was in fact a misscramble (as unlikely as it is)?


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## Julian (Aug 7, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> EDIT: Does someone with Brest-like skills and a copy of scrambles from Finals want to review the final round of Nats just to maybe stir the pot if there was in fact a misscramble (as unlikely as it is)?


That will happen when finals gets uploaded and reconstructed.


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## qqwref (Aug 7, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> How on earth can you think it was a fair record when it wasn't the right scramble, and therefore the regulations were not followed?


Fair? The only people it's not fair to is the other people at the competition. I think it's perfectly fair to people in the rest of the WCA database. It's still a random scramble - maybe not the one that was generated, but a one-move mistake is an honest mistake.

Also, this is a guy with a 10.x average. I think he can get a very high 6 normally. 6.91 is a good time for him, but this isn't a situation like the 3.52 where the scramble became ludicrously easy because of the mistake. I say it's an honest mistake that hurt nobody - let it stand.

Just thought of something else - do you have a video of every solve from the competition? If there was video, would the WCA be willing to analyze it? This may not be the only solve where a scrambling mistake was made. What if the mistake rate was 10%, 20%, 50%? Will all those solves get DNFed? Do competitors have recourse (e.g. a replacement solve) if there was a scrambling mistake, since it is after all not their fault - and if so, how could they possibly get this extra solve during the round, since it's obviously not OK for random competitors to ask for the official scrambles? If a PB being DNFed due to a misscramble is a serious danger competitors have to contend with, how could anyone with a video of their PB *not* want to verify that the scramble was correct?


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## Julian (Aug 7, 2014)

qqwref said:


> Fair? The only people it's not fair to is the other people at the competition. I think it's perfectly fair to people in the rest of the WCA database. It's still a random scramble - maybe not the one that was generated, but a one-move mistake is an honest mistake.


This thought has been kicking around my head reading this thread.

Also, what if the scrambler makes a mistake on the last move in the scramble? As in, the first move of the solve is R instead of R', for example, and the rest is the same as what it 'would' be. This happened to me at a recent competition.


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## yoinneroid (Aug 7, 2014)

As Kir has brought up, Ando's case clearly came to mind
also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXqUVFKofz4&list=UUnETRknCbFoy3IIXmGMWjxw
too bad I cleared that up during the competition XD


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## SolveThatCube (Aug 7, 2014)

uberCuber said:


> Unfortunately, a one-move mistake can sometimes make a ridiculous difference



Very true.


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## qqwref (Aug 7, 2014)

I went and looked at the Ando topic and it seems like the conclusion was that the scramble he got was totally different from the actual one, and it looked like he knew the scramble and solve ahead of time. Similar to what probably happened with Shane Rowland ages ago (he got a 13 or 14 on the first solve of an average, and no other solves under 35). So that's a clear but arguably unprovable instance of cheating, whereas this is just a scrambler making an honest mistake.

Now, if Akash had ended up with a totally ridiculous solve and time, something like that Riley Woo video, then yeah, I'd say we ought to DNF the solve... not because a misscramble is against the rules, but because it's unfair to have to compete against a solve on a scramble like that, and I'd expect Akash to reluctantly agree that that was the best course of action. Just like what was done on Prusak's Square-1 WR single ages ago. But really, this wrong scramble isn't that crazy, the time is reasonable, and it will get beaten. Don't punish Akash alone for something that may have happened to many, many solves at that competition.


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## DuffyEdge (Aug 7, 2014)

I'm sure this sort of thing happens ALL the time at many competitions, but goes unnoticed


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## DeeDubb (Aug 7, 2014)

What is very annoying here goes back to my video evidence dilemma. If this misscramble had been caught during the comp, he would get a new try. Now he gets a DNF. So, how are the rules being followed when video evidence is not giving someone a retry and instead giving them a DNF? If you can break off the regs and use judgement to call this a DNF because it's impossible for him to get a retry, why can't you break off the regs and say this this scramble was still random and should therefore stand? I just don't understand why common sense can't play a part in these judgments. He still got a random scramble, and solved it legally.


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## mark49152 (Aug 7, 2014)

Are scramblers briefed or trained? Does a second pair of eyes check each cube before it's delivered? Is there both a defined process for scrambling, and a defined process for ensuring that this is applied consistently by the scrambling team? Who is the responsible person and what is their direct involvement in that process?

Seems to me that the real problem here is not how the WCA responds to such events, but that mis-scrambles can get to the table in the first place. It really shouldn't be that hard to prevent.


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## MatejMuzatko (Aug 7, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Are scramblers briefed or trained? Does a second pair of eyes check each cube before it's delivered? Is there both a defined process for scrambling, and a defined process for ensuring that this is applied consistently by the scrambling team? Who is the responsible person and what is their direct involvement in that process?
> 
> Seems to me that the real problem here is not how the WCA responds to such events, but that mis-scrambles can get to the table in the first place. It really shouldn't be that hard to prevent.



Scramblers get a scramble sheet, where each scramble has a picture how it looks - that's how they check it...
Of course they are not trained, they are usually just volunteers from other groups (except for big finals like Worlds or so)
But on each competition I have been on, the delegate/organiser went to ask people he knows and believes them, not some random children who don't know direction of B'... I have also seen my friend going judging and organiser forced him not to judge...


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## BillyRain (Aug 7, 2014)

DuffyEdge said:


> I'm sure this sort of thing happens ALL the time at many competitions, but goes unnoticed



Indeed. There are a lot of things that go unnoticed at WCA competitions.


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## deepkt (Aug 7, 2014)

i"m very sad fot it


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## aashritspidey (Dec 13, 2014)

Time to change the title maybe? 
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1216


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## Robert-Y (Dec 13, 2014)

Congratulations again!


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## guysensei1 (Dec 13, 2014)

aashritspidey said:


> Time to change the title maybe?
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1216


Awesome news!


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## ~Adam~ (Dec 13, 2014)

Fantastic news. Once again seems like a good decision to me.


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## XTowncuber (Dec 13, 2014)

Well that's a rather unexpected turn of events. Congrats!


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## Iggy (Dec 13, 2014)

Woah, didn't expect this, congrats!


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## pappas (Dec 13, 2014)

I think too much fretting over honest mistakes like this take away a lot of the fun from cubing. Rules are necessary for fair competitions to take place, but at the end of the day, it's a hobby.

It's good to see this has been rectified. Nice solve, and congratulations!


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## ryanj92 (Dec 13, 2014)

oh wow, congratulations!


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## Rubiks560 (Dec 13, 2014)

Didn't see that coming  congrats!


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