# [Video] How to differentiate H perm from Z perm? (beginner PLL help)



## MarcelP (Aug 17, 2012)

When I was learning full PLL I started to mix up H and Z execution. Here is how I solved that:

Please don't mind the slow turning 

[video=youtube_share;3UahABXQmdg]http://youtu.be/3UahABXQmdg[/video]

H:M2' U M2' U2 M2' U M2'
Z: M'2 u M2' D' M S2 M'


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## Dacuba (Aug 17, 2012)

I just noticed how the edge is, I luckily never had problems with that
Is it opposite it is H.
Is it not it is Z.

And even tho some would say "Dude that is so obvious stop that", I like to see you caring about beginner cubers


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## ThomasJE (Aug 17, 2012)

Dacuba said:


> I just noticed how the edge is, I luckily never had problems with that
> Is it opposite it is H.
> Is it not it is Z.
> 
> And even tho some would say "Dude that is so obvious stop that", I like to see you caring about beginner cubers



That's the way I knew it. But, it's so obvious to us because we practice it every day. When I was learning it (before I even knew about Speedsolving), I found a way myself to differentiate them. Because I didn't know about a community where we all helped each other. Now, we just post in the OAQT rather than turn to YouTube.


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## MarcelP (Aug 17, 2012)

Yes, recognition has been always easy for me too. But however executing them that is where I messed up. The most standard preferred algoritms of H and Z are almost the same. These I could not keep apart. Now I probably could. I just found out about someone on this forum who is learning the Z perm since yesterday so that is why I made the video.


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## moralsh (Aug 17, 2012)

I seem to have problems memorizing many OLL and PLL but I have none when it "makes sense" or when they is some rhythm in the execution, that´s exactly what happened with these PLL.

H Perm:

Somebody explained in these forums that M2 U2 M2 U2 just swaps UF-UB and DF-DB, the M2 U just sets the cube up for the swap so we just undo it with U' M2 at the end. When you cancel U2 with U' leaving U you have the definitive alg M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2

Z Perm

I grop the execution like this: 

M2 U M2 U
M´ U2 M2 U2 M´ U2

very easy to remember for me like this


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## Schmidt (Aug 17, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> When I was learning full PLL I started to mix up H and Z execution. Here is how I solved that:
> 
> Please don't mind the slow turning
> H:M2' U M2' U2 M2' U M2'
> Z: M'2 u M2' D' M *S2* M'


When teaching beginners, please write the correct algs.


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## MarcelP (Aug 17, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> When teaching beginners, please write the correct algs.



Thanks, I missed that one.


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## Endgame (Aug 17, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Z: M'2 u M2' D' M S2 M'



NO
NO
NO

U' M' U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2


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## BlackStahli (Aug 17, 2012)

Endgame said:


> NO
> NO
> NO
> 
> U' M' U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2


NO
NO
NO

M2' U M2' U M' U2 M2' U2 M'


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## applemobile (Aug 17, 2012)

Endgame said:


> U' M' U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2



Worst. alg. ever.


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## Endgame (Aug 17, 2012)

applemobile said:


> Worst. alg. ever.



yeah, S slices are VERY EASY


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## MarcelP (Aug 17, 2012)

Endgame said:


> NO
> NO
> NO
> 
> U' M' U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2


Yes, I used that one in the beginning. It is fast and simple. But I have a real hard time remembering PLL's and therefor I mix different algs up. I continuously mix H and Z with that alg.


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## applemobile (Aug 17, 2012)

Endgame said:


> yeah, S slices are VERY EASY



Stop trying to be kirjava. M2 U' M2 U' M' U2 M2 U2 M'

OP don't worry if you get confused between them it will come in time. I would strongly suggest you do not ditch Algs because you confuse them with others, it will only irritate you in the future when you have to change Algs. Just keep doing the Algs in solves, don't worry about your times, just pause and think before executing, soon you will work out simple was to differentiate them.


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## Endgame (Aug 17, 2012)

applemobile said:


> Stop trying to be kirjava.



what the ****

it is not my problem he's right



MarcelP said:


> Yes, I used that one in the beginning. It is fast and simple. But I have a real hard time remembering PLL's and therefor I mix different algs up. I continuously mix H and Z with that alg.



H: R2' U2 R U2' R2 U2 R2' U2 R U2' R2
Z: U' M' U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2






problem solved


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## stoic (Aug 17, 2012)

applemobile said:


> I would strongly suggest you do not ditch Algs because you confuse them with others, it will only irritate you in the future when you have to change Algs. Just keep doing the Algs in solves, don't worry about your times, just pause and think before executing, soon you will work out simple was to differentiate them.



I find that part of the process of learning an alg for the long-term sometimes includes forgetting it, or mixing it up with another one (especially one with a similar beginning). If I'm learning a new alg and it causes me difficulty with one I already know I concentrate on drilling the new one for a couple of days. Then I look for a crucial point of difference and I find can refresh/relearn the older alg quite easily. Then I have both muscle memory and also a better understanding of the algs.


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## uberCuber (Aug 18, 2012)

applemobile said:


> Worst. alg. ever.



What? How is

M2' U M2' U M' U2 M2' U2 M'

that much better than

M' U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2
?

It's the exact same number of M quarter turns. There are no clockwise M moves. All U moves go in the same direction. And it happens to be one less quarter turn overall.


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## applemobile (Aug 18, 2012)

Hate M' U the one I posted is M' U'


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## jonlin (Aug 18, 2012)

BlackStahli said:


> NO
> NO
> NO
> 
> M2' U M2' U M' U2 M2' U2 M'



NO
NO
NO

M2 U' M' U2 M2 U2 M' U M2


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## uberCuber (Aug 18, 2012)

applemobile said:


> Hate M' U the one I posted is M' U'



>_>

If you do M' with that hand, you can just switch the direction of every single U in the alg, and it works exactly the same. M' U' M2 U' M2 U' M' U2 M2



jonlin said:


> NO
> NO
> NO
> 
> M2 U' M' U2 M2 U2 M' U M2



NO
NO
NO

it has U moves going in both directions. The other algs don't.


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## ThomasJE (Aug 18, 2012)

M2' U' M2' U' M' U2' M2' U2' M' is my alg.



uberCuber said:


> It's the exact same number of M quarter turns. There are no clockwise M moves. All U moves go in the same direction. And it happens to be one less quarter turn overall.



There would have to be the same amount of M quarter turns. Otherwise, the centers would be off.


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## Robert-Y (Aug 18, 2012)

I gotta say ubercuber knows what he's talking about B)

Also <RU> H perm has 20 quarter turns which is why it's slow compared to <MU> H perm.

The less distance your hands (and fingers) need to travel, the better the alg is... (though it doesn't work all the time of course)


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## Escher (Aug 18, 2012)

Robert-Y said:


> The less distance your hands (and fingers) need to travel, the better your execution of the alg is... (though it doesn't work all the time of course)



FTFY

I'm glad in a sense that people are thinking about ETM now, even if the notation that the 'spirit' of ETM uses is very flawed for its application...


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