# I can not endure Chris's lie.



## Hai Yan Zhuang (Aug 31, 2010)

"I think it's worth noting that Haiyan appeared on a Guiness-style TV show in early 2009 and solved, claiming a new BLD world record. It wasn't until afterward that an audience member revealed that after several DNFs, he was given a scramble to practice before solving. I am aware of the pressures of television, and that producers can have unreasonable demands, but I think this is worth considering relative to the current situation"

Above is what Chris a WCA delegate in China wrote.

During the Guiness-style TV show I solve only one time and it success. 
I never get DNF during the Guiness TV show.


Everybody can ask for the Guiness and TV show for the truth!My solve is 35+ not include the inspection time.It is
Guiness rule.Actrually it is very slow.

Bellow is the video:http://www.56.com/u23/v_NDkxMzM3NTY.htmll

"我只会说我听说过的，我也没看过我不知道。如果不是这样那我会回收我说的而道歉。

主要是，我从来没说过怀疑他盲拧能力，没说过怀疑他比赛成绩，没说过怀疑他作弊。我只说我听说电视节目有这么回事。
电视节目跟比赛不一样，只是提了个问题而已。"

The picture is what Chris write in Chinese forum.
He said:"I just said I have ever heard sombody said you cheat but I do really never watch your solve,so I know nothing.If you do not cheat I will take back what I said and appologize..........."

I just want ask Chris if he do not think it is a truth why he spread the Rumor all over the world.What does he think?
Why he want others think I cheat ?If Chris have a personal hatred with me?
And this also happen for other things.......


Bellow is what Chris's apologize to me:
"I've already removed the part in question. I haven't seen the show mentioned, and shouldn't have relied on the statements of others regarding a situation as problematic as this. If what I said was not true, then I was misinformed, and will apologize to Haiyan.

What about other things.Is there any other things that is not truth you heard from others?Have you ever spreaded it over the world?
This is why I do not trust you. How can I and others cubers trust you do not lie on other things.

All these is lie!
?Rule 2k2: Mr. Zhuang repeatedly lied to competition organizers and delegates with regard to competition planning. He made false claims about the number of rounds scheduled for WCA competitions in order to serve both his personal and financial interests at the expense of the competition as a whole.”
Rule 2k3: Mr. Zhuang has repeatedly threatened physical violence against WCA delegates and competition organizers in an effort to coerce them into meeting his demands.


Hi Tyson. Since the WCA is your organization and it seems that you do not want me attend your competitions again. I will never attend your competition. 

I have to say apologize to all the cubers here, maybe I disturb all the cubers here. I am really feel sorry! Maybe my mistake brings many unhappy to yours. I just want this stop. Wish everybody enjoy the cubes. I like cube very much. It is very funny. It brings much happiness to me.
I wish everybody should be friend here. I also want be the friend of everybody.

Wish everybody get the fastest speed in the future. 

I will never give up BLD. BLD is the most important interest of my life. 
Wish every cuber happy here.


----------



## jiggy (Aug 31, 2010)

Hi Haiyan, I was hoping you would give us your side of the story here. What are your feelings about the WCA investigation? How do you feel about the ban, and do you intend to provide the requested apology? Thanks.


----------



## onionhoney (Aug 31, 2010)

So you will NEVER apologize to the public. Is that right?

As a matter of fact, Mr.Zhuang is a Rumor Creater™!


----------



## Tim Major (Aug 31, 2010)

Err... only one solve on the show? Didn't you have DNFs first? Time to check the video...

I hope you're not lying Haiyan, because that's a horrible lie.


----------



## Shack (Aug 31, 2010)

just to be sure: is this the mentioned guiness tv show?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkM7LfsWYr8&feature=related

2:26 is a DNF...

NOT THE RIGHT VID LOOK IN #1


----------



## jiggy (Aug 31, 2010)

Shack said:


> just to be sure: is this the mentioned guiness tv show?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkM7LfsWYr8&feature=related
> 
> 2:26 is a DNF...


Yep, but the cube for the next solve is clearly scrambled by the guy in the black t-shirt. Seems legit to me.


----------



## Shack (Aug 31, 2010)

jiggy said:


> Shack said:
> 
> 
> > just to be sure: is this the mentioned guiness tv show?
> ...



im not sure how random the scrambling looks..
by that I really meen im not sure


----------



## jiggy (Aug 31, 2010)

Guys, I would actually like to hear what Haiyan has to say about this. I'm tired of getting information second or third hand. Haiyan, you're a great competitor. I truthfully hope you give the community their apology, sit out for the year and then come back and compete in the true spirit of the hobby.

If you have anything to say about the investigation or your intentions, please let us know. Otherwise, all we'll ever have to go by is what is already out there.


----------



## FatBoyXPC (Aug 31, 2010)

Haiyan you should probably provide us with a link to the video you are talking about?

Do you plan to publicly apologize?

Do you plan to make it so CCA members cannot participate in WCA events? Please don't separate the two.


----------



## Radu (Aug 31, 2010)

I really hope Haiyan will think about this message from Ron:



Ron said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am very sorry, but this is the way it has been going since Haiyan was not able or willing to see his own faults. He knew what he would do if we would not ignore his faults. Well, we did not ignore them. And from there it went the way that he wanted it to go. I do not like this situation, but there is no way that we could ignore his seriously bad behaviour. Even a one day ban would not have changed anything. Haiyan still has one month to come to new insights.
> 
> ...


----------



## alabing11 (Aug 31, 2010)

所谓家丑不可外扬，这种事，犯不上来这闹
吵架用不着英文，LX也别翻译，本来就是国人在看


----------



## kutuan (Aug 31, 2010)

mr.Zhuang is banned from competition, but not from this forum rite?

why people use such a rude word? 

GTFO? :fp


----------



## kutuan (Aug 31, 2010)

base on the video presented and the story in #1

imo, Chris should take back his word and apologize


----------



## Johan444 (Aug 31, 2010)

kutuan said:


> base on the video presented and the story in #1
> 
> imo, Chris should take back his word and apologize



Agreed.


----------



## jiggy (Aug 31, 2010)

kutuan said:


> base on the video presented and the story in #1
> 
> imo, Chris should take back his word and apologize





r_517 said:


> Shack said:
> 
> 
> > just to be sure: is this the mentioned guiness tv show?
> ...


----------



## kutuan (Aug 31, 2010)

jiggy said:


> kutuan said:
> 
> 
> > base on the video presented and the story in #1
> ...



so? :confused:


----------



## jiggy (Aug 31, 2010)

kutuan said:


> jiggy said:
> 
> 
> > kutuan said:
> ...


This is not the incident Chris was talking about.


----------



## joey (Aug 31, 2010)

kutuan said:


> jiggy said:
> 
> 
> > kutuan said:
> ...


So he should apologise based on a video.. which isn't even the correct video. Yeah.. makes sense..


----------



## keyan (Aug 31, 2010)

I've already removed the part in question. I haven't seen the show mentioned, and shouldn't have relied on the statements of others regarding a situation as problematic as this. If what I said was not true, then I was misinformed, and will apologize to Haiyan.


----------



## Henrik (Aug 31, 2010)

joey said:


> kutuan said:
> 
> 
> > jiggy said:
> ...



Joey look at the first post in this thread, there you'll find a link to the correct video.


----------



## Johan444 (Aug 31, 2010)

Are you trying to derail the discussion? Stop discuss the video.

Chris said stuff about Haiyan wich he later confessed he didn't know a thing about.


----------



## Hai Yan Zhuang (Aug 31, 2010)

"I've already removed the part in question. I haven't seen the show mentioned, and shouldn't have relied on the statements of others regarding a situation as problematic as this. If what I said was not true, then I was misinformed, and will apologize to Haiyan.

What about other things.Is there any other things that is not truth you heard from others?Have you ever spreaded it over the world?
This is why I do not trust you.


----------



## MrMoney (Aug 31, 2010)

To mr. Hai Yan Zhuang: I just want to applaud how well you have learned english the last year, your improvement is very good. I have been a fan of yours for a long time, you got me interested in BLD and now I average around 2min.

I really hope you try to have a dialogue with the WCA, that would be the best thing for cubing around the world. Please try to see that you are a reason to this problem, please resolve it. Noone else here has ever had problems with the WCA.

We need you to be a good man as you are a good cuber.


----------



## CitricAcid (Aug 31, 2010)

The only way we are going to resolve this whole controversy with the TV show that is being talked about is for a link to an uncut video of the show, and whoever is right, is right. As for the whole thing with Haiyan getting banned, etc. Haiyan should apologize. Even IF the WCA blew it out of proportion (which I do not believe happened) Haiyan still was obnoxious in the competition, and that could disrupt people who are solving. So Mr. Haiyan, simply apologize, do your time, and come back and be a great competitor in BLD.


----------



## ElectricDoodie (Aug 31, 2010)

CitricAcid said:


> *The only way we are going to resolve this whole controversy with the TV show that is being talked about is for a link to an uncut video of the show, and whoever is right, is right.* As for the whole thing with Haiyan getting banned, etc. Haiyan should apologize. Even IF the WCA blew it out of proportion (which I do not believe happened) Haiyan still was obnoxious in the competition, and that could disrupt people who are solving. So Mr. Haiyan, simply apologize, do your time, and come back and be a great competitor in BLD.



This. So, until then, no one should make false accusations or assumptions, on something no one here probably saw.


----------



## onionhoney (Aug 31, 2010)

Hai Yan Zhuang said:


> "I've already removed the part in question. I haven't seen the show mentioned, and shouldn't have relied on the statements of others regarding a situation as problematic as this. If what I said was not true, then I was misinformed, and will apologize to Haiyan.
> 
> What about other things.Is there any other things that is not truth you heard from others?Have you ever spreaded it over the world?
> This is why I do not trust you.



lol. He will apologize to you ,but you never apologize to anybody.
This is why we do not trust you.


----------



## Crazycubemom (Aug 31, 2010)

Hay Yan, you are my Idol.
I have much respect on you, you've been in my country just to compete with all Indonesian Bld Cubers. I've never seen you in real but your courage and fight till you able to compete at Indonesian Champs 2010 I can see your motivation with bld. I know its not easy from your country to go to another country just for Rubik's Cube competition.....

I wish you good luck and be strong with all situations 

from 1 of your BIG fan's  forever.


----------



## deadalnix (Aug 31, 2010)

You are totaly out of this topic.

Nobody is saying that Haiyan is cheating or whatever. We all know that he's damn good at bld. This have nothing to do with what we are talking about.


----------



## Crazycubemom (Aug 31, 2010)

I have no his Facebook, so from here I can say Hello to him .... Ni Hao?


----------



## ocg42=YJ (Aug 31, 2010)

As to me, during the whole issue(until now), Zhuang is always finding for supporters rather than evidence. In this matter, Chris did make some mistakes, but he made appologize as soon as he realized it. But Zhuang tries to convince us that Chris's words and deeds throughout the issue were unfair because of these mistakes, but it makes no sense.
As onionhoney said,"He(Chris) will apologize to you(Zhuang), but you never apologize to anybody.This is why we do not trust you." Through the issue Zhuang hardly made any real apology to anybody. Zhuang tried to divide people into two groups that one supported him and another did not. And he sought for absolute(I can't sure that this word is accurate) support. But he hardly reply for questions that may demonstrate his fault. This is a traditional way for chinese to defend himself when he makes fault and do not want to admit.
That's a view of a normal, non-benefit-related chinese player.


----------



## nck (Aug 31, 2010)

ocg42=YJ said:


> As to me, during the whole issue(until now), Zhuang is always finding for supporters rather than evidence. In this matter, Chris did make some mistakes, but he made appologize as soon as he realized it. But Zhuang tries to convince us that Chris's words and deeds throughout the issue were unfair because of these mistakes, but it makes no sense.
> As onionhoney said,"He(Chris) will apologize to you(Zhuang), but you never apologize to anybody.This is why we do not trust you." Through the issue Zhuang hardly made any real apology to anybody. Zhuang tried to divide people into two groups that one supported him and another did not. And he sought for absolute(I can't sure that this word is accurate) support. But he hardly reply for questions that may demonstrate his fault. *This is a traditional way for chinese to defend himself when he makes fault and do not want to admit.*
> That's a view of a normal, non-benefit-related chinese player.



wut
If I stuff up I then I would apologize. It all depends on a person's pride and ego and not Chinese traditions.
From the way I was brought up, I think avoiding the question is the worst possible way of defending one's self.


----------



## Stefan (Aug 31, 2010)

Thanks mods for deleting several "gtfo" and similar posts. Effing unreasonable haters. I don't know much about the general issue with Haiyan (have read only what was published), but I looked a bit into this one right here.



> I think it's worth noting that Haiyan appeared on a Guiness-style TV show in early 2009 and solved, claiming a new BLD world record. It wasn't until afterward that an audience member revealed that after several DNFs, he was given a scramble to practice before solving. I am aware of the pressures of television, and that producers can have unreasonable demands, but I think this is worth considering relative to the current situation



"*Guiness-style*" sounds like it's some clone show. But there's Guinness all over the place. The host carries a folder with the GWR logo, so does the judge who also wears it as a button. It's in the audience, it's on the certificate, and the judge says "Guinness world record". Also, r_517's quote below. Looks to me like it *was* a GWR show.

"*early 2009*"? The video was posted early 2010 and r_517 posted this a month later:


r_517 said:


> BLD Guinness World Record 35.66s by Haiyan Zhuang :
> Former record was set by Danyang Chen with 41.16s.
> Video: http://www.56.com/u23/v_NDkxMzM3NTY.html
> Regulation:
> ...


I think one year does make a significant difference.

"*after several DNFs, he was given a scramble to practice before solving*"? Several DNFs? With practically unlimited memorization time? And then after practice, he only gets 35.66 *execution*? Seems slow for him. And why would he practice, anyway?

"*an audience member revealed*". Way too strong language, in my opinion, I'd find "_an audience member claimed_" much more appropriate, especially considering the above issues. You did write Haiyan "_claiming a new BLD world record_", after all. Which, as far as I can tell, he didn't even do. It was a Guinness world record, I didn't see any claim of a world record (you don't think that's the same, do you?).

"*I think this is worth considering relative to the current situation*". Why? Even if it's true, what does it matter? We all know Guinness is laughable, the media distorts, and as far as I can tell, he wasn't accused of peeking or so. The TV show possibly hiding DNF attempts, cutting the memo time, letting practice... even if that's true I'm not shocked at all and I don't see what it's supposed to tell about Haiyan. I'd still call it a legitimate blindsolve, just not a WCA-type one.

Again, these are just my thoughts/findings about this particular issue, not about the Haiyan situation as a whole. Don't know much about that, though I do believe the WCA is doing its best to handle it in a proper and fair manner, trying to do what's best for cubing and its community.


----------



## r_517 (Aug 31, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> "*early 2009*"? The video was posted early 2010 and r_517 posted this a month later:
> 
> 
> r_517 said:
> ...



still my point, i DO admit that he was, is and maybe will still be a good cuber, but he didn't behave like a good, polite man.


----------



## Tyson (Aug 31, 2010)

Crazycubemom said:


> Hay Yan, you are my Idol.
> I have much respect on you, you've been in my country just to compete with all Indonesian Bld Cubers. I've never seen you in real but your courage and fight till you able to compete at Indonesian Champs 2010 I can see your motivation with bld. I know its not easy from your country to go to another country just for Rubik's Cube competition.....
> 
> I wish you good luck and be strong with all situations
> ...



Huge win!

Regarding Stefan, yes... there have been a number of TV shows, and other events that do "Guinness" records. I contacted Guinness 6 years ago and when they told me you had to use a cube that was fresh from the packaging, I knew that they had no idea what they were talking about and that it was all a publicity stunt to improve their brand name, sell books, TV shows, and just make money. They really don't care about the accuracy of their records, or what the records mean.

Let's see... not only did you have to use a cube fresh from the packaging, but you had to have two cubes mixed up by "someone" and then you get to choose one... the entire thing was quite inane.

In any case though, this has nothing to do with anything really. There are too many "Guinness" attempts out there, and some of them, (I'm not saying this one) were done under very questionable conditions. So just take this for what it's worth... it's a variety show trying to get ratings and piggy-backing off the "Guinness" name.

Isn't that great Haiyan? You have an idol! YAY!


----------



## Hai Yan Zhuang (Aug 31, 2010)

Hi Tyson ,what you want say is that Guinness world record worth nothing. But what I say is Chris lie. He create a rumor. He have agreed he lie.How about you think of his lie???

Isn't that great Tyson? You ignore the lie.You are a real genius!!!!!YAY!!!


----------



## qqwref (Aug 31, 2010)

CitricAcid said:


> The only way we are going to resolve this whole controversy with the TV show that is being talked about is for a link to an uncut video of the show, and whoever is right, is right.



You're not going to get more than what was seen on TV. If there was anything not legit and it wasn't revealed until an audience member spoke up, the only way to find out for sure would be to contact the studio and ask them for the original unedited footage. Good luck with that! :tu


----------



## kutuan (Aug 31, 2010)

Hai Yan Zhuang said:


> Hi Tyson ,what you want say is that Guinness world record worth nothing. But what I say is Chris lie. He create a rumor. He have agreed he lie.How about you think of his lie???
> 
> Isn't that great Tyson? You ignore the lie.You are a real genius!!!!!YAY!!!



chill out dude 

chris "lie" maybe not a right term, i prefer "accusing without evidence"


----------



## Tyson (Aug 31, 2010)

Hai Yan Zhuang said:


> Hi Tyson ,what you want say is that Guinness world record worth nothing. But what I say is Chris lie. He create a rumor. He have agreed he lie.How about you think of his lie???
> 
> Isn't that great Tyson? You ignore the lie.You are a real genius!!!!!YAY!!!



Because the Guinness record *IS* worth nothing. I'm quite confident I've had more experience dealing with Guinness officials than most people here. I've seen how they do things and I know the record is worthless. It's about publicity, and not about cubing.

What do I think about this lie? I don't think anything of it. It doesn't matter. You're picking up on one very small facet of this issue. This doesn't change the bigger picture of who you are and what you've done. Focusing on this lie is ignoring the big elephant in the room... the big elephant named Haiyan.

And his NUMBER ONE FAN because you are an IDOL OH YAY!

Seriously though, stop trying to distract people from the real issue. These small things don't change who you are. These small things don't suddenly make you right. They don't absolve you of everything you've done.


----------



## shelley (Aug 31, 2010)

nck said:


> ocg42=YJ said:
> 
> 
> > As to me, during the whole issue(until now), Zhuang is always finding for supporters rather than evidence. In this matter, Chris did make some mistakes, but he made appologize as soon as he realized it. But Zhuang tries to convince us that Chris's words and deeds throughout the issue were unfair because of these mistakes, but it makes no sense.
> ...



It's also worth noting that a previous investigation of a cheating incident involved a Chinese competitor, who publicly apologized and accepted having his records revoked.


----------



## Crazycubemom (Aug 31, 2010)

Is it not allowed to have Idol's? I like Hai yan because his courage with bld that's all and visited my country.


----------



## Tyson (Aug 31, 2010)

Crazycubemom said:


> Is it not allowed to have Idol's? I like Hai yan because his courage with bld that's all and visited my country.



Oh no... you can you can! I'm pretty happy that you have such a great idol like Haiyan. Congratulations.

I only wish that I could have an idol that is of such upstanding character as you have chosen. Saying that Haiyan is your idol in no way compromises your intelligence or your character. Yup, this is true. Since Haiyan is such a model citizen of the world, your choice in idol and who you've decided to place your respect is completely representative of every sane person out there.

So awesome. But I can only sit by on the sidelines while you have your SUPER AWESOME idol. I feel sad, that I am not as privileged as you. Yes of course, your choice in idol doesn't reflect on you at all. You can have an idol! I guess I cannot. This makes me sad.


----------



## Hai Yan Zhuang (Aug 31, 2010)

Tyson said:


> on this lie is ignoring the big elephant in the room... the big elephant named Haiyan.
> 
> And his NUMBER ONE FAN because you are an IDOL OH YAY!


Hi Tyson,are you really forget you are a world WCA delegate. You said big elephant . Oh my god.
Do you feel shame ??

How about others think? The WCA world delegate abuse a cuber who need to apologize to him as a elephant ?

As a WCA world delegate you even say like this. I am really admire you very very much.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I need think should I apologize to a man like you!!


----------



## shelley (Aug 31, 2010)

I think there are some language barrier issues going on.

The English phrase "elephant in the room" means a big issue that people are unwilling to discuss, even though everyone knows the issue is there. Nobody is trying to insult you by calling you an elephant.


----------



## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Aug 31, 2010)

Haiyan its not literal :s.


----------



## Hai Yan Zhuang (Aug 31, 2010)

Tyson said:


> Crazycubemom said:
> 
> 
> > Is it not allowed to have Idol's? I like Hai yan because his courage with bld that's all and visited my country.
> ...



Hi Tyson. After I read what you write I really feel you are a little bad-mannered young guy!!!


----------



## Tyson (Aug 31, 2010)

Hai Yan Zhuang said:


> Tyson said:
> 
> 
> > on this lie is ignoring the big elephant in the room... the big elephant named Haiyan.
> ...



No, I don't feel shame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_the_room

Though, I completely understand if you didn't know that phrase. It is not necessarily fair for you to be communicating in a second language, when I am able to communicate in my primary language.


----------



## Tyson (Aug 31, 2010)

Hai Yan Zhuang said:


> Tyson said:
> 
> 
> > Crazycubemom said:
> ...



Sarcastic, maybe. But again, you're basically using this thread to pick on everything else, to take attention off yourself. You realize that everyone sees through this.

Because my temperament completely exonerates you from your behavior...


----------



## tke444 (Aug 31, 2010)

Could all of you stop? Not to say you cannot post your opinion or post on here, but this seems to only be making matters worse, for everyone involved.


----------



## Mike Hughey (Aug 31, 2010)

shelley said:


> It's also worth noting that a previous investigation of a cheating incident involved a Chinese competitor, who publicly apologized and accepted having his records revoked.



May I point out that this other Chinese competitor is my idol and I am his NUMBER ONE FAN?  Seriously, I really appreciate the behavior of this competitor, publicly apologizing and accepting the punishment. It's reminiscent of the behavior that professional golfers are expected to follow - telling on themselves when they commit a rules infraction, even if it means a severe punishment. Can we somehow manage to make that behavior the standard in cubing? People would really admire us if we would!


----------



## AbelBrata (Aug 31, 2010)

Gee... I just left a couple hours ago and things are getting hotter here...
Chill out guys. IMO there must be something between Mr. Zhuang and Chris, maybe something more personal. Can we let them resolve their problem first? They need to talk to each other to clear this situation.


----------



## nitrocan (Aug 31, 2010)

Was this worth opening a new thread? You could just say this in the same thread without distracting people from what's actually going on.


----------



## dabmasta (Aug 31, 2010)

Crazycubemom said:


> Is it not allowed to have Idol's? I like Hai yan because his courage with bld that's all and visited my country.



Oh yeah, and Hitler is my biggest idol because he is great leader, and he visited my country. :fp


I don't want to say it, but Haiyan is acting a little immature here. Maybe its the language barrier, but I'm pretty sure he is raging now.


----------



## Tyson (Aug 31, 2010)

This open communication between Haiyan and Chris has been attempted by Chris on numerous occasions. I could go through my logs to find each attempt and give you dates, but it would really take some time, and I'm not sure it would enhance the situation to the point where it's worth my effort.

But for those who are willing to take my word for it, Chris made numerous attempts to talk this over and was rebuked over and over again. The last meeting I heard about was something about the two meeting, each bringing a friend, and the friends would help moderate the discussion, but I recall Chris telling me it was "a huge mistake."

@dabmasta... wow, thanks for that. You know, it does take a lot of courage to visit Poland in the middle of pretty much the largest war ever. And even more courage to go visit Russia in the winter.


----------



## hawkmp4 (Aug 31, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> shelley said:
> 
> 
> > It's also worth noting that a previous investigation of a cheating incident involved a Chinese competitor, who publicly apologized and accepted having his records revoked.
> ...



I seem to remember a competitor who set what I think was a Sq1 record of some sort, and told the delegate of his own accord that the puzzle was not scrambled properly. Not quite the same thing, but the same spirit, I think.


----------



## kutuan (Aug 31, 2010)

Crazycubemom said:


> Is it not allowed to have Idol's? I like Hai yan because his courage with bld that's all and visited my country.



i idolize mike tyson for his boxing skill, but not his character outside the ring

the situation is same in this case 

i believe that's what you mean, rite mom?


----------



## fanwuq (Aug 31, 2010)

hi guys! long time no cube. this seems like an exciting discussion. cliff notes?


----------



## shelley (Aug 31, 2010)

If someone claims to idolize Michael Vick because of his football playing skills and not... certain other things he was involved in, most people would still question that person's judgment.


----------



## StachuK1992 (Aug 31, 2010)

Hai Yan Zhuang said:


> Hi Tyson. After I read what you write I really feel you are a little bad-mannered young guy!!!



I'm sorry, but this irony is far too much.

Haiyan, we all know that you're pissed that Chris "lied." (uninformed telling, more like)

How about we all pull meany faces to Chris, and now move onto stuff that actually matters, like, say, threats.

Changing the subject every post you make, saying "YOU ARE BAD GUY" or "CHRIS LIES" doesn't help you. At all. It's quite blatant that you're just avoiding this "big elephant."

Please, express thoughts other than the above.

Mike - that would be fantastic , but unfortunately, not everyone is calm and collected and willing to do this. :/


----------



## nck (Aug 31, 2010)

Tyson said:


> This open communication between Haiyan and Chris has been attempted by Chris on numerous occasions. I could go through my logs to find each attempt and give you dates, but it would really take some time, and I'm not sure it would enhance the situation to the point where it's worth my effort.
> 
> But for those who are willing to take my word for it, Chris made numerous attempts to talk this over and was rebuked over and over again. The last meeting I heard about was something about the two meeting, each bringing a friend, and the friends would help moderate the discussion, *but I recall Chris telling me it was "a huge mistake."*
> 
> @dabmasta... wow, thanks for that. You know, it does take a lot of courage to visit Poland in the middle of pretty much the largest war ever. And even more courage to go visit Russia in the winter.



lol did Haiyan bring a thug friend along and knock our Chris's teeth?

I admire Hitler as a political leader, but don't agree with his views.


----------



## goatseforever (Aug 31, 2010)

>Bored at work, come on speedsolving.com for first time in weeks
>First post I read is some guy analogizing the BLD WR holder to Hitler

Dammit you guys.


----------



## dabmasta (Aug 31, 2010)

I did not intend to hijack the thread. I will remain silent.


----------



## PatrickJameson (Aug 31, 2010)

What I'm confused about is why this forum is being the medium for conversation between Tyson, Haiyan, Shellie, Chris, etc. Why isn't this being done through email? 

The only thing being accomplished is the attempt to publicly humiliate the other people involved with this. In reality, there should be much infractioning and banning going on in this thread with the new rules that are in place.

This shouldn't be the place to discuss this and iron out the details of the situation. It should be done in private where outside interference is limited and the urge to attempt to publicly humiliate the other party is limited.


----------



## AbelBrata (Aug 31, 2010)

goatseforever said:


> >Bored at work, come on speedsolving.com for first time in weeks
> >First post I read is some guy analogizing the BLD WR holder to Hitler
> 
> Dammit you guys.



LOL


----------



## dabmasta (Aug 31, 2010)

PatrickJameson said:


> What I'm confused about is why this forum is being the medium for conversation between Tyson, Haiyan, Shellie, Chris, etc. Why isn't this being done through email?
> 
> The only thing being accomplished is the attempt to publicly humiliate the other people involved with this. In reality, there should be much infractioning and banning going on in this thread with the new rules that are in place.
> 
> This shouldn't be the place to discuss this and iron out the details of the situation. It should be done in private where outside interference is limited and the urge to attempt to publicly humiliate the other party is limited.




It was haiyan's decision to bring it to the public. He is calling out chris in the public, I think he intended it for the community to be involved.


----------



## Stefan (Aug 31, 2010)

Hai Yan Zhuang said:


> But what I say is Chris lie. He create a rumor. He have agreed he lie.



No, that's wrong. Yes, he did unfortunately mention this rumor, and I wish he hadn't, but you're now making it sound like he invented the story. I believe he did hear it from someone else, _believed it_, and posted it without enough to back it up. *Posting it was a mistake, not a lie.* And he was quick to say he shouldn't have done it, acknowledging that the evidence for this was poor. And he deleted it, trying to prevent the rumor from spreading.

I'm sure the evidence for the other stuff is much better, otherwise WCA wouldn't use it. Remember that this rumor was just a little side-note in a thread here, not something as serious as a WCA ban. I know from a previous incidence where I was involved that the WCA doesn't make important decisions carelessly or lightheadedly. Please believe me that the WCA tries to be as objective and unbiased as possible and is solely trying to do the best for cubing and its community. The WCA is not your enemy, it's simply the evidence that speaks against you.


----------



## Stefan (Aug 31, 2010)

dabmasta said:


> It was haiyan's decision to bring it to the public. He is calling out chris in the public, I think he intended it for the community to be involved.



Wrong, it was Chris (here, as can be seen from ZB_FTW!!!'s post under it).


----------



## dabmasta (Aug 31, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> dabmasta said:
> 
> 
> > It was haiyan's decision to bring it to the public. He is calling out chris in the public, I think he intended it for the community to be involved.
> ...



My bad, but that doesn't make Haiyan anymore innocent. He is doing the same here.


----------



## clement (Aug 31, 2010)

dabmasta said:


> Oh yeah, and Hitler is my biggest idol because he is great leader, and he visited my country. :fp



Good to see that we just verified Godwin's law.


----------



## dabmasta (Aug 31, 2010)

clement said:


> dabmasta said:
> 
> 
> > Oh yeah, and Hitler is my biggest idol because he is great leader, and he visited my country. :fp
> ...



I can't believe that is actually a real thing. I lol'd hard.

But I think people can see my point with my post.


----------



## shelley (Aug 31, 2010)

Okay, I'm closing this thread. Chris has already admitted he was wrong and said he will apologize; there is nothing more to discuss. In fact, this whole situation is only marginally relevant to the real issue at hand, but it's been played up so much someone managed to invoke Godwin's Law. Good job, guys. Can we focus on the important stuff now?


----------



## PatrickJameson (Aug 31, 2010)

Stefan has pointed out that Haiyan has edited his original post to include an apology to the cubers on this forum. It should be noted that those who have been following this thread should re-read the original post.


----------

