# Who's fast with visual memo?



## Lucas Garron (Nov 30, 2007)

I am definitely sub-2 with visual memo on 3x3x3 BLD, sometimes sub-1:30. I can even get sub-2 with freestyle edges.
And on 4x4x4, I can get sub-10 with very few mistakes (and, like, sub-4 on a good memo now), even though I get horribly close DNF's. I was _so_ close to 3rd in the world...
And I think that though visual may be slower, it doesn't detract from accuracy so much.

I haven't heard of anyone who's gotten sub-2 without adopting a non-visual memo system for most of the cube. I think Leyan might, depending on what you consider "weird shapey things"...
Does anybody know of other (preferably fast-ish) people who still use visual memo? Does anybody else even do 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 visually?
(Am I missing someone obvious?)


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## watermelon (Nov 30, 2007)

Lucas Garron said:


> Am I missing someone obvious?


Yes ! Rowe Hessler uses pure visual memorization for 3x3 and big cube BLD. Although he uses stories for multi-BLD, they are purely freestyle (no predetermined images, letter combos, etc.).


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## alexc (Nov 30, 2007)

watermelon said:


> Lucas Garron said:
> 
> 
> > Am I missing someone obvious?
> ...



That's cause Rowe uses pure 3 cycle, which is easy to memorize with visual method.


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## malcolm (Nov 30, 2007)

I use visual for corners, but numbers for edges because i find using two different methods is easier. Corners takes me around 30 sec to memo both orientation and permutation, and I use pure Macky.


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## LarsN (Nov 30, 2007)

My best 3x3 blind was done purely visuel memo, but I'm working on a new memo for edges that I call "Worlds memo" which has an avg of 3-4 images for 3x3 and 6 images for 4x4 edges. I'm doing this because I had to many dnf when trying to go fast.


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## Marcell (Nov 30, 2007)

Erik uses pure visual memo and he's fast. Not sub-2, though.


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## masterofthebass (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't know if you were to consider this visual:
I just memorize the colors of the stickers in my buffer. What I really end up doing is memorizing where the piece goes, along with it's first color sticker. I'm hovering right around 2 min and have a PB os 1:4x with using this memo system. I also use it for r2 on the 4x4.


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## joey (Nov 30, 2007)

I use visual, lgarron, you knew that!


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## Pedro (Nov 30, 2007)

I use visual 

well, I think it is...I used to use numbers, but I don't "think" it that way anymore...


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## alexc (Dec 1, 2007)

One plus I like about Macky's 3 cycle is that it is easy to memorize by just tapping the pieces in the order of the cycle, because you don't have to worry about the orientation. (This is what I do. I need a better memo system. Hopefully I'll make one soon.) However, with M2, TuRBo, or free setup 3 cycle, this way is harder because you have to remember if a piece goes to UF or FU; for Macky's 3 cycle you just need to know that it goes to that spot.


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## malcolm (Dec 1, 2007)

Exactly. I use 3 cycle, and just remember the shapes the corners make, I can remember in one passing unless i get some ugly shapes which are too hard.


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## vlarsen (Dec 1, 2007)

I try to translate colors into pictures. But I haven't yet thought of images for some color combinations, so I use a number system to remember these. But when I execute I try to remember visually, because it goes faster. The reason I use images/numbers and not pure visual when memorizing is for memory leaks. When I can't remember the next position automatically, I can spend a second or two running through my story-interlaced-with-numbers and figure out the place to shoot a cubie to. This slows me down a bit on memorization because I am trying to use more than one system; my memo times are usually 2:30. But I rarely have DNFs.


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## pajodaep (Dec 1, 2007)

gosh, is it really possible to memorize the cube using purely visual method? i do it for the corner orientation and permutation, but my head will get overloaded if I also use it for the edges...


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## clement (Dec 2, 2007)

I use pure visual memorisation (my times are about 2:30). For 4x4 also, and for multiple blindfold.


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## Erik (Dec 2, 2007)

Marcell said:


> Erik uses pure visual memo and he's fast. Not sub-2, though.



not sub-2?? I did sub-2 once 
Oh btw, I do visual for everything.. 3x3, 4x4, multi, etc..


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## magicsquares (Dec 3, 2007)

You don't use images or stuff like that? Is visual like photographic memory or you just remember the colors/shapes?


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## joey (Dec 3, 2007)

There is a dispute wether true photographic memory exists. For some visual memory is hard to explain, for me, I just can't explain what I "see".


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## TheBB (Dec 3, 2007)

I use the "Macky" method, and just tried visual memo. Usually my times are from 3:30 to 4:00... and now I just produced three times below 3:30, one even 3:07: a PB, and no DNFs. I think I'll go visual from here .

Edit: I don't memorize what the cube looks like, of course. What I mean by visual memo is that I memorize the cycles "as is" on the cube, the shape the path of cubies make on the cube, so to speak. Usually, like for multi BLD, i memorize them in some other fashion.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 4, 2007)

Yeah, I had my biggest breakthrough in BLD when I switched from using person-action-object for edge permutation to using "visual" memo, exactly like you're describing, TheBB. I was actually averaging 7+ minutes, then switched to memorizing the shape of the path of the cubies, and suddenly dropped to 4-5 minutes. More than 2 minutes off my time instantly. It was the biggest change in times I've ever had.


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## shelley (Dec 10, 2007)

I use purely visual memo, with Macky's 3-cycle method. But that's mostly because I was too lazy to familiarize myself with a numbering scheme. Right now I'm probably averaging around 40 seconds for memorization. However, with visual memo certain sequences are easier or harder to memorize than others, a drawback that I think people who use numbers or other memory techniques are less likely to encounter.


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## tim (Dec 11, 2007)

Mike Hughey said:


> Yeah, I had my biggest breakthrough in BLD when I switched from using person-action-object for edge permutation to using "visual" memo, exactly like you're describing, TheBB. I was actually averaging 7+ minutes, then switched to memorizing the shape of the path of the cubies, and suddenly dropped to 4-5 minutes. More than 2 minutes off my time instantly. It was the biggest change in times I've ever had.



You definitely should've practiced more, if it took you 7 minutes to memorize 20 pieces of information. Sorry, i couldn't resist .
/edit: To get your memo times down it really helps, to force yourself to memorize the cube within x seconds. Then try to recall as much as possible. Over time you can easily halve your memo times.



shelley said:


> However, with visual memo certain sequences are easier or harder to memorize than others, a drawback that I think people who use numbers or other memory techniques are less likely to encounter.


I use images and i also have some fast and slow sequences. For example: "car + fat man" is much easier and faster to memorize than "ship + tree". But you're right, the difference between worst and best case isn't as big as with visual memorization.

Back to topic: I memorized visually before i switched to images. My memorization average was about 1:30 minutes. I found it very hard (almost impossible) to memorize in one pass, that was the main reason for me to switch to a more serious memory system.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 11, 2007)

tim said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I had my biggest breakthrough in BLD when I switched from using person-action-object for edge permutation to using "visual" memo, exactly like you're describing, TheBB. I was actually averaging 7+ minutes, then switched to memorizing the shape of the path of the cubies, and suddenly dropped to 4-5 minutes. More than 2 minutes off my time instantly. It was the biggest change in times I've ever had.
> ...



I still don't know why person-action-object was going so slow for me. I didn't have a journey or anything to go with it, and it seemed like my memory got slower and slower the more I practiced it. Old memorizations confused my new ones, somehow. Oh, and I know you were joking, but it definitely didn't take me 7 minutes to memorize. Typical memorization times were 3:30 or so. It took me 3:30 just to solve the thing. (I'm slow at turning the cube, and I was really slow back then!)

I think that trying different methods is one of the most helpful things you can do. It seems like every time I try another method, when I go back to my tried and true method after that, I make a significant jump in speed.

joey recommended to me a few days ago that I should "just go for it", aiming for a 40 second memorization time. I tried, and I didn't quite make it, but amazingly, just by trying I went from my typical 1:20 memorization time to just under a minute, which was very amazing to me! I had 3 solves in a row under 3 minutes, which is very rare for me. So I can see that what you are saying works. A big thank you to both you and joey for that suggestion.


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## joey (Dec 11, 2007)

Mike Hughey said:


> joey recommended to me a few days ago that I should "just go for it", aiming for a 40 second memorization time. I tried, and I didn't quite make it, but amazingly, just by trying I went from my typical 1:20 memorization time to just under a minute, which was very amazing to me! I had 3 solves in a row under 3 minutes, which is very rare for me. So I can see that what you are saying works. A big thank you to both you and joey for that suggestion.



Thats great Mike! I have done several sub30 memo now, but I havn't had much time to practice it alot recently, so I havn't been getting them consistently!


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Dec 22, 2007)

for the corners [pochmann method] I memorize semi-visual, and i haven't messed them up since i switched to pochmann. I memorize the sticker that will end up on U, and the path of corners visually, so in my mind i have something like this memorized "Green, blue, yellow, yellow, white, green"
edges take me like 5-7 minutes to memorize because of my lack of an efficient method, corners take like 50 seconds i guess? my DNFs are usually over 10 minutes. I've only had one pochmann success so far, out of maybe 4 attempts


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## MiloD (Dec 23, 2007)

i use to use journeys(roman room to be exact...) but i had trouble distinguishing between consecutive solves. so i switched to visual and have had great results. the recall is almost instant because there is no need for translation.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Dec 23, 2007)

Lucas Garron said:


> I am definitely sub-2 with visual memo on 3x3x3 BLD, sometimes sub-1:30. I can even get sub-2 with freestyle edges.
> And on 4x4x4, I can get sub-10 with very few mistakes (and, like, sub-4 on a good memo now), even though I get horribly close DNF's. I was _so_ close to 3rd in the world...
> And I think that though visual may be slower, it doesn't detract from accuracy so much.
> 
> ...



I am purely visual memo, and am around 1:35, so yeah, you missed someone, but maybe I'm not obvious enough.  And I use a terrible method, too!


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Dec 31, 2007)

I switched to pure visual, and it takes me about 2-4 minutes to memorize, depending on how in the zone I am I guess, haha


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## Zava (Feb 18, 2008)

my memo average is about 20-25 secs with stories (pb is around 15 secs) for edges and numbers for corners (which depends on orientation) could visual memo improve this?


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## tim (Feb 18, 2008)

Zava said:


> my memo average is about 20-25 secs with stories (pb is around 15 secs) for edges and numbers for corners (which depends on orientation) could visual memo improve this?



Yes, ask Rowe Hessler .


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## Swordsman Kirby (Feb 20, 2008)

Zava said:


> my memo average is about 20-25 secs with stories (pb is around 15 secs) for edges and numbers for corners (which depends on orientation) could visual memo improve this?



Can I have your memo times?


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## rubiks to the third (Feb 21, 2008)

i do visual orientation of corners and edges, then do letters for corner permutation and numbers for edge permutation


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## Zava (Feb 21, 2008)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> Zava said:
> 
> 
> > my memo average is about 20-25 secs with stories (pb is around 15 secs) for edges and numbers for corners (which depends on orientation) could visual memo improve this?
> ...



sorry, no, i need them too.


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