# Speedstacks Gen 5 timer



## Cubing Forever (Mar 5, 2021)

Speedstacks released a new timer and it has gotten negative reviews lately. Write down your opinion below.
Here's Speedstacks Inc.'s announcement video


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## OreKehStrah (Mar 5, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> Speedstacks released a new timer and it has gotten negative reviews lately. Write down your opinion below.
> Here's Speedstacks Inc.'s announcement video


This is a very premature thread to make. No one has it yet so it’s not fair to say whether or not it’s good or bad. Plus it won’t really affect cubing unless they fixed the software issues like random resets and mistiming. The main difference is the button functionality and the thumb pads for cup stacking.


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## cuberbutnotacuber (Mar 5, 2021)

I agree with @OreKehStrah because it still isn't out yet. However, my stand is that the WCA should make the YJ Timer or QiYi official too. The YJ timer prevents accidental resets, calculates ao5 and ao12 automatically. It should have a mo3 calculator as well, for big cube solves. And the QiYi timer is essentially the SpeedStacks one but cheaper. I still don't like the G5 timer as much because of the button placement. All they had to do was make a G4 with the reset button taking a longer time to reset.


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## SH03L4C3 (Mar 5, 2021)

cuberbutnotacuber said:


> I agree with @OreKehStrah because it still isn't out yet. However, my stand is that the WCA should make the YJ Timer or QiYi official too. The YJ timer prevents accidental resets, calculates ao5 and ao12 automatically. It should have a mo3 calculator as well, for big cube solves. And the QiYi timer is essentially the SpeedStacks one but cheaper. I still don't like the G5 timer as much because of the button placement. All they had to do was make a G4 with the reset button taking a longer time to reset.


its not legal because TC, SCS, and the WCA have a contract with SpeedStacks, and speedstacks wont allow them to carry Qiyi Timers or Speedstacks will break the contract

Looks decent. Remember it has to work for both speedcubing AND Speedstacking. I just hope it fixes all of the problems, and I hope they add an a05 feature like the GAN one. I also hope they at least make it under $30

"

To prevent the RESET or POWER buttons from accidently getting pressed when a timer is slammed, they must now be pressed for ½ second to activate. No more lost times or turned off timers! The buttons also have a new reinforced design that won't wear through with extended use."

Are those places for your thumb?

"The G5 timer has two modes: 4-Pad mode (for stacking) and 2-Pad mode (for speed cubing, where it operates just like a G4 timer). "









New G5 Timer! (Sport Stacking)


Speed Stacks is the worldwide leader in Sport Stacking. Sport Stacking is an amazing sport of fitness, agility, concentration and quickness. Thousands of teachers, administrators, and parents along with millions of kids have experienced the benefits of Sport Stacking.




www.speedstacks.com


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## OreKehStrah (Mar 5, 2021)

cuberbutnotacuber said:


> I agree with @OreKehStrah because it still isn't out yet. However, my stand is that the WCA should make the YJ Timer or QiYi official too. The YJ timer prevents accidental resets, calculates ao5 and ao12 automatically. It should have a mo3 calculator as well, for big cube solves. And the QiYi timer is essentially the SpeedStacks one but cheaper. I still don't like the G5 timer as much because of the button placement. All they had to do was make a G4 with the reset button taking a longer time to reset.


The time to reset doesn't really matter. It's an objective improvement for the comp setting since it helps remove accidental resets. The extra half second it takes is inconvenient at home, but in comp, there's usually a few minutes in between solves so it doesn't really matter.


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## SH03L4C3 (Mar 5, 2021)

after checking more about the timer, it sucks, they are just ruining Speedstacks. The timer is not that bad, but THEYY are resetting the records!?!?


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## Kit Clement (Mar 5, 2021)

cuberbutnotacuber said:


> However, my stand is that the WCA should make the YJ Timer or QiYi official too





SH03L4C3 said:


> TC, SCS, and the WCA have a contract with SpeedStacks, and speedstacks wont allow them to carry Qiyi Timers or Speedstacks will break the contract



WCA does not have any exclusivity contract with speedstacks. However, speedstacks has a US patent on their timers that would make the WCA liable to be sued for violating the patent if we were to use any timer from these cube companies, as they are breaking that patent. This is why Cubicle/SCS have been threatened to have other cube timers removed from their website.

The G5 timer is great for cubing - having reset buttons that only trigger after being held for 0.5 seconds will make it very easy to distinguish actual timer malfunctions and user error, making it easier to award extras. The data cord being hidden will also make our cords/timers last longer, as I've definitely had timers in competition have their data port/cord break from being snapped out by a clumsy competitor. 

In theory, I also think that if G5 timers could be replaced worldwide, that using the 4-pad mode would make judging timer starts/stops so much easier and more consistent, but replacing all timers in the WCA worldwide is going to be expensive and I don't see this happening anytime soon.


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## SH03L4C3 (Mar 5, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> WCA does not have any exclusivity contract with speedstacks. However, speedstacks has a US patent on their timers that would make the WCA liable to be sued for violating the patent if we were to use any timer from these cube companies, as they are breaking that patent. This is why Cubicle/SCS have been threatened to have other cube timers removed from their website.
> 
> The G5 timer is great for cubing - having reset buttons that only trigger after being held for 0.5 seconds will make it very easy to distinguish actual timer malfunctions and user error, making it easier to award extras. The data cord being hidden will also make our cords/timers last longer, as I've definitely had timers in competition have their data port/cord break from being snapped out by a clumsy competitor.
> 
> In theory, I also think that if G5 timers could be replaced worldwide, that using the 4-pad mode would make judging timer starts/stops so much easier and more consistent, but replacing all timers in the WCA worldwide is going to be expensive and I don't see this happening anytime soon.


I agree. It might be great for Speecubing, but it messed up speedstacking. Plus, they now reset all speedstacking records!!


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## qwr (Mar 5, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> WCA does not have any exclusivity contract with speedstacks. However, speedstacks has a US patent on their timers that would make the WCA liable to be sued for violating the patent if we were to use any timer from these cube companies, as they are breaking that patent. This is why Cubicle/SCS have been threatened to have other cube timers removed from their website.


Which is weird - why are they suing the WCA if they are not the ones manufacturing it? And aren't all big cubes patent infringing too?


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## SH03L4C3 (Mar 5, 2021)

qwr said:


> Which is weird - why are they suing the WCA if they are not the ones manufacturing it? And aren't all big cubes patent infringing too?


its their patented design to have the display in the middle, and touch pads, and that it clips onto the mat


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## Tabe (Mar 5, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> WCA does not have any exclusivity contract with speedstacks. However, speedstacks has a US patent on their timers that would make the WCA liable to be sued for violating the patent if we were to use any timer from these cube companies, as they are breaking that patent. This is why Cubicle/SCS have been threatened to have other cube timers removed from their website.


How would the WCA - which doesn't even purchase timers - be held liable for companies breaking the Speedstacks patent?


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## SH03L4C3 (Mar 5, 2021)

Tabe said:


> How would the WCA - which doesn't even purchase timers - be held liable for companies breaking the Speedstacks patent?


they have a contract with speedstacks to make speedcubing timers.


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## Kit Clement (Mar 5, 2021)

Tabe said:


> How would the WCA - which doesn't even purchase timers - be held liable for companies breaking the Speedstacks patent?





qwr said:


> Which is weird - why are they suing the WCA if they are not the ones manufacturing it? And aren't all big cubes patent infringing too?



Patent law protects against the importing or use of infringing products. Timers for competitions currently are actually bought by the WCA and distributed to delegates. If the WCA were to use a new timer, Speedstacks could certainly go after the WCA for buying and distributing to delegates, or worse, go after delegates for purchasing them if they were to do so directly. Given that the WCA has a large influence on the types of timers that cubers would want to purchase, even going after individuals would likely be worth the effort for them.

It's difficult to go after Chinese manufacturers to protect a US patent, China is basically an IP theft paradise. V-Cube tried for years to go after Chinese manufacturers and ended up making little progress and basically lost all community support as a result.



SH03L4C3 said:


> they have a contract with speedstacks to make speedcubing timers.



I literally quoted your post above above debunking this. Just stop posting on this forum if you're not going to bother reading others' posts.


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## SH03L4C3 (Mar 5, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> Patent law protects against the importing or use of infringing products. Timers for competitions currently are actually bought by the WCA and distributed to delegates. If the WCA were to use a new timer, Speedstacks could certainly go after the WCA for buying and distributing to delegates, or worse, go after delegates for purchasing them if they were to do so directly. Given that the WCA has a large influence on the types of timers that cubers would want to purchase, even going after individuals would likely be worth the effort for them.
> 
> It's difficult to go after Chinese manufacturers to protect a US patent, China is basically an IP theft paradise. V-Cube tried for years to go after Chinese manufacturers and ended up making little progress and basically lost all community support as a result.
> 
> ...


sorry


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## Tabe (Mar 5, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> Patent law protects against the importing or use of infringing products. Timers for competitions currently are actually bought by the WCA and distributed to delegates. If the WCA were to use a new timer, Speedstacks could certainly go after the WCA for buying and distributing to delegates, or worse, go after delegates for purchasing them if they were to do so directly. Given that the WCA has a large influence on the types of timers that cubers would want to purchase, even going after individuals would likely be worth the effort for them.


OK. My understanding was that delegates buy them. Doesn't really change anything though. After doing some research, I can't find any case law or lawsuits that involved pursuing the end consumers (which the WCA would be) for patent infringements they themselves didn't commit. 

Which is not to say the WCA should encourage violating the patent. Going with the only "legal" timer is the right thing to do. It's the moral high ground. I just don't see any actual liability for them if they don't.


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## Kit Clement (Mar 5, 2021)

Tabe said:


> OK. My understanding was that delegates buy them. Doesn't really change anything though. After doing some research, I can't find any case law or lawsuits that involved pursuing the end consumers (which the WCA would be) for patent infringements they themselves didn't commit.
> 
> Which is not to say the WCA should encourage violating the patent. Going with the only "legal" timer is the right thing to do. It's the moral high ground. I just don't see any actual liability for them if they don't.



I'd imagine it's a rare case, as going after those that manufacture or distribute the timers is far easier than going after individuals, and going after individuals usually isn't worth it. From my understanding of patent law it's theoretically possible to go after those that use or import infringing products, which the WCA/delegates would be doing if we were to use some other timer. But I'm not a lawyer, so it's hard for me to know anything definitively.

Their patent expires in June 2022, so who knows what might happen at that point. I think I might agree more with the morals standpoint if speedstacks made a reasonable effort to make their timers at a quality level that reflects their price, but after several years they still can't figure out why their own displays are causing strange reset issues other than blaming us for causing too much static at our events.


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## Tabe (Mar 5, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> Their patent expires in June 2022, so who knows what might happen at that point. I think I might agree more with the morals standpoint if speedstacks made a reasonable effort to make their timers at a quality level that reflects their price, but after several years they still can't figure out why their own displays are causing strange reset issues other than blaming us for causing too much static at our events.


Yeah, it's kinda like VCubes. Like, yeah, I have sympathy for the fact you have a patent but when make no effort to innovate and your product isn't great...


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## DNF_Cuber (Mar 5, 2021)

So... it's clunkier, and it has one countdown light instead of 2?
In all seriousness though the 4 pad thing is sort of cool.(Now we have to put our thumbs even closer to the reset!)


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## qwr (Mar 5, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> I think I might agree more with the morals standpoint if speedstacks made a reasonable effort to make their timers at a quality level that reflects their price, but after several years they still can't figure out why their own displays are causing strange reset issues other than blaming us for causing too much static at our events.


Exactly what I wanted to say. The prices don't reflect the quality. If a timer were very reliable, then $40 is a reasonable price. But they're not and maybe the YJ timer is more reliable.


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## Kit Clement (Mar 5, 2021)

qwr said:


> Exactly what I wanted to say. The prices don't reflect the quality. If a timer were very reliable, then $40 is a reasonable price. But they're not and maybe the YJ timer is more reliable.



Maybe - I know the old QJ timer is of abysmal quality, and so I'm skeptical of whether the other companies' timers are any better. Many of the newer ones seemed to use clones of SpeedStacks boards to make their timers, like the Yuxin. The Gan timer intrigues me as potentially of very high quality, but haven't had one in my hands. You really don't learn the quality of a timer until you put it under the stress of a day long WCA competition. Hoping that G5 will fix a lot of the issues we saw with G4, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## Tabe (Mar 6, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> So... it's clunkier, and it has one countdown light instead of 2?
> In all seriousness though the 4 pad thing is sort of cool.(Now we have to put our thumbs even closer to the reset!)


There's a 2-pad mode for cubing so you don't have to put your thumbs there.


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## Mr. McCubing (Mar 6, 2021)

Tabe said:


> There's a 2-pad mode for cubing so you don't have to put your thumbs there.


Yeah, honestly though I could imagine some little kid at a comp switching it to four pad lol


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## SH03L4C3 (Mar 6, 2021)

Mr. McCubing said:


> Yeah, honestly though I could imagine some little kid at a comp switching it to four pad lol


My thumbs are naturally at the 4 pad spot anyway.


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## Deleted member 55877 (Mar 6, 2021)

Why should cubers buy a timer that has 4 pads if they're only ever going to use 2 of them?


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## Mr. McCubing (Mar 6, 2021)

Alex Davison said:


> Why should cubers buy a timer that has 4 pads if they're only ever going to use 2 of them?


Good point. They should make a cubing timer and a stacking timer, not both in one.


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## SH03L4C3 (Mar 6, 2021)

Alex Davison said:


> Why should cubers buy a timer that has 4 pads if they're only ever going to use 2 of them?





Tabe said:


> There's a 2-pad mode for cubing so you don't have to put your thumbs there.


plus its cheaper to manufacture


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Apr 12, 2021)

If you listen to the most recent layer by layer podcast they talk about other reasons it’s important. Most importantly, you have to hold down the time off and reset buttons for a 1/2 second before it does those actions, making it much less prone to accidents. (and it may be less prone to static, etc.)


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## SH03L4C3 (Apr 12, 2021)

SH03L4C3 said:


> I agree. It might be great for Speecubing, but it messed up speedstacking. Plus, they now reset all speedstacking records!!





ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> If you listen to the most recent layer by layer podcast they talk about other reasons it’s important. Most importantly, you have to hold down the time off and reset buttons for a 1/2 second before it does those actions, making it much less prone to accidents. (and it may be less prone to static, etc.)


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## itscubingtime (Jun 20, 2021)

I got my timer around two weeks when it got released, and up until a week ago its been doing fine. but now for some reason the pads are acting up, like it'll randomly register after I've already started, or start while my hands are on it.

I couldn't find anyone else having this problem, so because my timer is literally patient zero here, I just figured to come out myself.


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## DuckubingCuber347 (Jun 22, 2021)

I think it's fine the Speedstacks released a new timer but what isn't fine is the price. A timer is not worth that price Speedstacks isn't gorgeously high quality, and they don't need to be because they basically have a monopoly. They can release a new timer make everybody use (In the case of the WSSA, luckily we don't have that yet in the WCA) and thus generating big bucks, the WSSA community doesn't really have a say in it. This also effects the cubing community because the previous timers were not perfect a number of reasons were listed in the Layer by Layer podcast, so the fact that we have a new timer with upgrades seems nice. And since comps have to use Speedstacks they're going to most likely start replacing them with the "newest and best" timer. Not every place can do this though. Take for example African comps, there's not very many cubers in Africa so why would you spend hundreds of dollars to replace functional timers?
It's a good marketing strategy but not a good support strategy. I no longer am a fan of Speedstacks because they have become exactly what Rubik's and V-cube were, Rubik's is now mostly ridiculed and V-cube is basically dead.


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