# Rowe Variation: My new last slot/OLL experiment



## rowehessler (Mar 9, 2012)

Hey everyone,

I've been meaning to make a thread on this new "method" for a while now, so here it is. I have only shared my algorithms with a select few people to see what they think, including Jeremy Fleischmann, Breandan Vallance, and Anthony Brooks, and they also believe that this system has great potential. I guess the first part of the "RLS" system is what is most commonly known as the Winter Variation.
Winter Variation (F2LL) is a set of algs which allows you to orient LL corners while solving your 4th pair if this pair is connected. The full set of Winter Variation algs can be found here: http://absolutemind.pagesperso-orange.fr/f2ll-angl.htm
Not many people have actually taken the time to learn the 27 Winter Variation cases. But I believe they are definitely worth while. Mats Valk from the Netherlands uses one of the Winter Variation cases on his 6.41 official single, ranking him 3rd in the world. 




scramble : D R2 D' F2 D' L2 U R2 D2 L' B2 D' L' U F' L U' L2 D' 
X-cross : x y2 D U' R' F y R U' R' u R' (9)
2nd pair : y' U' R U2 R' U R U' R' (8)
3th pair : U' L' U L U2 L' U L (8)
WV setup : U2 R' U R U2 (5)
WV: R2 D' R U R' D R2 (7)
PLL : U' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' U' (16) 
53 moves / 6.41 = 8.27 TPS

This is the solve that inspired me to finally learn Winter Variation, and to generate RLS algorithms. RLS is simply Winter Variation with all types of last layer edge orientations. There are 216 cases in total (this number includes the 27 WV cases). Here are a few examples of some solves during which I would use RLS:

Example 1: R2 F2 R' D2 B2 L' R' B2 U2 L D2 F' U' L2 F2 L D' R' B' L2 D' (cross on U)
cross: z2 D' R' y' R' U2 R' F D' (7)
first pair: R' U' R U2 R' U R (7)
second pair: y' U' R U' R' U R' U' R (8)
third pair: y' U R' U' R U2 R' U R (8)
setup: U R U' R' (4)
RLS: y' U R' F' U' F U' R U R B' R' B (12) 
PLL: U' R2 u' R U' R U R' u R2 B U' B' U' (14)
total moves: 60

Example 2: L D2 U2 L2 D2 R D2 U2 B2 L B2 U' F' D B U' B2 U2 L' D2 F (cross on U)
cross: z2 y L U2 D' R' D F (6)
first pair: L F' L' F R U' R' (7)
second pair: y R U' R' U2 R U' R' (7)
third pair: y U2 R U R' (4)
setup: y U' R U' R' (4)
RLS: U F' U F R U' R' (7)
PLL: R' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R2 (11)
Total moves: 46

You can find my complete set of RLS algorithms on my website here: http://rowe.cubing.net/rls/
I hope people find all of this useful. Feel free to comment, question, and leave both positive and negative opinions on the system.


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## Sa967St (Mar 9, 2012)

Whoah! This will be REALLY useful, it's basically an OLL skip guide for all paired LS cases! Thanks for putting the time and effort into making this. 

So what does the "R" in RLS stand for?


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## jskyler91 (Mar 9, 2012)

Ah, darn, I was literally working on this myself as of a few days ago.... Good job though, you saved me some serious time.


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## rowehessler (Mar 9, 2012)

Sa967St said:


> Whoah! This will be REALLY useful, it's basically an OLL skip guide for all paired LS cases! Thanks for putting the time and effort into making this.
> 
> So what does the "R" in RLS stand for?



Lol yeah I couldn't think of anything else. I hate my last name so i just put the R


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## brandbest1 (Mar 9, 2012)

that's a lot of algs (but could be worth learning)


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## Escher (Mar 9, 2012)

Sweet, I'd thought about generating these a few times in the past year or so after finding a bunch by hand but never had the time/dedication.
I heard that Mats Valk knew the whole thing but I don't know how true that is (if anyone can confirm/deny?).

It's awesome that you actually went and made them all!

Are there any algs you can think of that you feel need improving? Brest and Robert Yau love finding new algs for cases...


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## rowehessler (Mar 9, 2012)

Escher said:


> Sweet, I'd thought about generating these a few times in the past year or so after finding a bunch by hand but never had the time/dedication.
> I heard that Mats Valk knew the whole thing but I don't know how true that is (if anyone can confirm/deny?).
> 
> It's awesome that you actually went and made them all!
> ...


Yes I've talked to Mats and he generated most of his own but I found all of these. We know about the same amount of skip cases, about 100 or so. He learned them at random but I've been learning them in order. Mats named the method "verba" far before I did any of this, so the name really isn't set in stone. I'm calling it RLS for now at least. And there are a few random ones, especially the all edges flipped wrong cases. But i don't plan on learning those anyway so i don't really care


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## jskyler91 (Mar 9, 2012)

This biggest problem with this is that trying to mirror 216 cases is kind of ridiculous. Instead, I think it is easier to only learn the UL, UB, and WV cases, those are the easiest to recognize because they create nice OLLish shapes and they tend to have pretty nice solutions as well. This is my plan at least. This way you only need to keep 81 algs fast and mirrable.


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## rowehessler (Mar 9, 2012)

yeah i don't plan on doing the mirror algs for anything. Also this isn't a system that is used every single time, only for the f2l cases that can easily be set up to the formed pair. So yeah I plan on learning all of them for the FR slot only and WV for the BR.


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## jskyler91 (Mar 9, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> yeah i don't plan on doing the mirror algs for anything. Also this isn't a system that is used every single time, only for the f2l cases that can easily be set up to the formed pair. So yeah I plan on learning all of them for the FR slot only and WV for the BR.


 
My plan is to learn the ones I said and be able to mirror them to the left. This way if I get a case in the back right, for instance, I can just do a Y and it will be a front right case and vice versa.


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## Divineskulls (Mar 9, 2012)

Nice, this must be the LL stuff you were talking about when you posted in the Accomplishment Thread a while back. Will definately look into this once I get faster (sub-12).


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## jskyler91 (Mar 9, 2012)

My problem thought is I can't decide between mastering this or mastering R-OLL. Both seem useful, but R-OLL is really easy to recognize and doesn't require any real mirroring or learning of new cases (I already know pretty much all cases from U2).

I guess the question is: "Is it better to have a shorter OLL but have little idea of the upcoming PLL or is it better to do a slightly longer OLL and be able to predict the PLL that is coming?"


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## Hershey (Mar 9, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> I guess the question is: "Is it better to have a shorter OLL but have little idea of the upcoming PLL or is it better to do a slightly longer OLL and be able to predict the PLL that is coming?"


 
Depends on how quickly you are able to recognize different cases?


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## Benjamins (Mar 9, 2012)

216 cases for something that comes up very rarely, only saves about 2-3 moves, has a harder recognition than OLL and has algs that don't seem nicer to me.
I think its cool to know them but not worth learning, at least for me.


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## Sa967St (Mar 9, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> I guess the question is: "Is it better to have a shorter OLL but have little idea of the upcoming PLL or is it better to do a slightly longer OLL and be able to predict the PLL that is coming?"


CP recognition wouldn't be as easy as it is for OLL, but it can still be learned.



Benjamins said:


> 216 cases for something that comes up very rarely


They *should* show up about 1 in 4 solves. That's not so rare.



Benjamins said:


> only saves about 2-3 moves


It looks like most of cases save many more moves than that. 



Benjamins said:


> has a harder recognition than OLL


Not necessarily. You need to see the orientation of at least six U cubies to determine you case, which is the same for OLL. Although it looks more challenging, by looking at the images, recognition shouldn't be too bad.


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## ottozing (Mar 9, 2012)

nice rowe, ive allways wanted to see a full list of algs for this. cant wait to learn some algs


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## Godmil (Mar 9, 2012)

It's an interesting idea, and well done for putting the work in, but I've got a wee problem with the idea (though not having tried it and not being near your level I may be way off the mark). It seems what you're doing is swapping LS for WV Setup and then OLL for RLS, so the same number of steps, just the first one may be simpler, but the second one seems massively more complicated.
It seems like you need the 216 cases for FR + 27 for BR + the 57 OLLs for when your last slot is on the left (unless you're strategically doing F2L to encourage the last slot to be on the right). It seems like a really complex system and I'm afraid I can't quite see the advantage. I'd love to be proven wrong, but on the face of it recognition/recollection hit plus the added difficulty of predicting PLL (which I assume you fast guys can do by understanding your existing OLLs) makes me worry that it may not be that useful a system.
If on the other hand it is intended simply to broaden your knowledge of lucky cases then more power to you, and good luck learning them.


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## Hershey (Mar 9, 2012)

This is actually a very good alternative to OLLCP, about 114 less algs.


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## Escher (Mar 9, 2012)

Godmil said:


> It's an interesting idea, and well done for putting the work in, but I've got a wee problem with the idea (though not having tried it and not being near your level I may be way off the mark). It seems what you're doing is swapping LS for WV Setup and then OLL for RLS, so the same number of steps, just the first one may be simpler, but the second one seems massively more complicated.
> It seems like you need the 216 cases for FR + 27 for BR + the 57 OLLs for when your last slot is on the left (unless you're strategically doing F2L to encourage the last slot to be on the right). It seems like a really complex system and I'm afraid I can't quite see the advantage. I'd love to be proven wrong, but on the face of it recognition/recollection hit plus the added difficulty of predicting PLL (which I assume you fast guys can do by understanding your existing OLLs) makes me worry that it may not be that useful a system.
> If on the other hand it is intended simply to broaden your knowledge of lucky cases then more power to you, and good luck learning them.


 
Don't assume this is a replacement for LS -> OLL!

It's only to be used when f2l cases are very easily reduced to the joined pair, or if your last pair is already joined. Imo it's worth learning just for the funhax value.


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## rowehessler (Mar 9, 2012)

Remember that this system is not for every solve. It is not meant to replace OLL.


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## spyr0th3dr4g0n (Mar 9, 2012)

I think that this could be quite useful for OH. With slower turning leading up to the step, prediction could be easier and recognition faster, so the savings on moves could balance it out to be as fast as usual.


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## Godmil (Mar 9, 2012)

You know looking through the algs, I guess I can see some merit to it. But it certainly is an extreme method (compairing learning to usefulness). I guess with your recognition skills this could give you an extra edge. I'm keen to see how you get on with it.


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## jskyler91 (Mar 10, 2012)

If you want to have a link to printer friendly versions Rowe, I have made them for UB,UL and WV, let me know if you want me to make the rest for you and I can email them to you.


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## timeless (Mar 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> If you want to have a link to printer friendly versions Rowe, I have made them for UB,UL and WV, let me know if you want me to make the rest for you and I can email them to you.


 
what is R-OLL?


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## StachuK1992 (Mar 10, 2012)

Saw this a few nights ago - you definitely need some more optimized algs, but nice job.
Nice .css colors


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## Escher (Mar 10, 2012)

timeless said:


> what is R-OLL?


 
http://absolutemind.pagesperso-orange.fr/roll-angl.html

Basically just using COLL recognition to help determine which category of PLL you'll get, and thus aiding recognition a little.


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## jskyler91 (Mar 10, 2012)

Escher said:


> http://absolutemind.pagesperso-orange.fr/roll-angl.html
> 
> Basically just using COLL recognition to help determine which category of PLL you'll get, and thus aiding recognition a little.


 
more than a little, you can determine if you are getting a ENVY and avoid it, if you are getting all corners permuted or if you are getting two corners permuted, you can tell exactly where they will be and thus only have to recognize the alg and then your already know AUF plus perm.


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## Anthony (Mar 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> more than a little, you can determine if you are getting a ENVY and avoid it, if you are getting all corners permuted or if you are getting two corners permuted, you can tell exactly where they will be and thus only have to recognize the alg and then your already know AUF plus perm.


 
I don't think R-OLL is *that* useful if you don't actually know a fair amount of OLLCP. Honestly, unless your PLL recognition is terrible, you won't shave much time off your solves by taking the time to recognize the R-OLL case just to shave a very small amount of time off your PLL recognition. If you couple it with actually knowing OLLCP algs then it's certainly worthwhile in many cases.

Anyway, RLS is pretty sweet. A lot of the algs are great and easy to learn - I'm up to 35 after a couple of days. I've already had a few sub 7s using it too, which is definitely motivating.


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## jskyler91 (Mar 10, 2012)

Anthony said:


> I don't think R-OLL is *that* useful if you don't actually know a fair amount of OLLCP. Honestly, unless your PLL recognition is terrible, you won't shave much time off your solves by taking the time to recognize the R-OLL case just to shave a very small amount of time off your PLL recognition. If you couple it with actually knowing OLLCP algs then it's certainly worthwhile in many cases.
> 
> Anyway, RLS is pretty sweet. A lot of the algs are great and easy to learn - I'm up to 35 after a couple of days. I've already had a few sub 7s using it too, which is definitely motivating.


 
I know almost all of my OLL's from both angles so if I see that I am getting an ENVY then I use another alg which avoids it. Therefore I almost never get ENVY's. This fact plus the fact that I can know what is going to come up without needing to learn any new algs is plenty useful in my opinion. Its not like I pause to check my R-OLL either, I just observe it and then process it while I am doing my OLL so that before my OLL finishes I know what is coming. I realize that R-OLL isn 't incredibly time saving, but I think many people underestimate its potential.


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## blade740 (Mar 10, 2012)

Wow, I've been working on exactly this for the past few weeks. I learned all of Winter Variation, and I was working on the Magic Wondeful cases before I went on to generate the other alg sets. I've been calling it "LSOLL", but I'll probably call it "Rowe Last Slot" just for the hell of it.


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## wontolla (Mar 10, 2012)

y' U' R U2 R' U R U' R' (8)

should be

y U' R U2 R' U R U' R' (8)


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## rowehessler (Mar 10, 2012)

blade740 said:


> Wow, I've been working on exactly this for the past few weeks. I learned all of Winter Variation, and I was working on the Magic Wondeful cases before I went on to generate the other alg sets. I've been calling it "LSOLL", but I'll probably call it "Rowe Last Slot" just for the hell of it.



lol wow so thats three people now who said they've already been generating them lmfao. And yeah I'm still not sure about the name, but LSOLL does pretty much sum it all up.


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## teller (Mar 10, 2012)

What I love about this is that Rowe has approached the typical cuber's age of retirement, but he's not quitting. Keep this type of behavior up, Rowe, and you will become Yoda.


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## rowehessler (Mar 10, 2012)

teller said:


> What I love about this is that Rowe has approached the typical cuber's age of retirement, but he's not quitting. Keep this type of behavior up, Rowe, and you will become Yoda.



lol thanks


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## Tim Major (Mar 10, 2012)

I learnt WV/F2LL back when I averaged over 25. I still remember most of it. I remember thinking of this variation of it, but I realised the ridiculous amount of cases and didn't bother. I will look through your site picking some short cases to learn. Thanks.


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## rowehessler (Mar 10, 2012)

Tim Major said:


> I learnt WV/F2LL back when I averaged over 25. I still remember most of it. I remember thinking of this variation of it, but I realised the ridiculous amount of cases and didn't bother. I will look through your site picking some short cases to learn. Thanks.


lol over 25


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## GlowingSausage (Mar 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Ah, darn, I was literally working on this myself as of a few days ago.... Good job though, you saved me some serious time.


 
I also had the idea a few weeks ago, but I wanted to learn full OLL first. I would have named it RMLS. Great job Rowe  I think I'm gonna learn some if I have time to


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## Escher (Mar 10, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> more than a little, you can determine if you are getting a ENVY and avoid it, if you are getting all corners permuted or if you are getting two corners permuted, you can tell exactly where they will be and thus only have to recognize the alg and then your already know AUF plus perm.


 
E, V and Y are good PLLs...

Trust me, I know the benefits, and I spent a while working on being able to recognise 1LLL using OLLCP+1 edge. I just don't think the overall benefit is really that great. I've been using OLLCP to some extent for over 2 years now, and I wish instead I'd spent my time practising and learning other systems, like MGLS/RLS/ZB.


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## Ickenicke (Mar 10, 2012)

How often can I use WV?

How often can I use Rowe's new algs, if I use all?


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## rowehessler (Mar 10, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> How often can I use WV?
> 
> How often can I use Rowe's new algs, if I use all?


 
You'd be using wv about once every 30 solves and RLS about one in four solves roughly.


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## StachuK1992 (Mar 10, 2012)

one in 4? what all cases are you simplifying to R U' R'?


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## Ickenicke (Mar 10, 2012)

I didn't know that you could use WV that often, maybe worth to learn.

@Rowe Is that if I can use WV or RLS for all slots (or rotate), or to get it at just FR for example?


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## stoic (Mar 10, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> Lol yeah I couldn't think of anything else. I hate my last name so i just put the R


 
I actually think your name is pretty cool...although it's arguably cooler that you can just use your first name and everyone knows who you are.

I'm not fast enough to learn these but it's great to see top cubers sharing their work and being prepared to collaborate like this. :tu


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## rowehessler (Mar 11, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I didn't know that you could use WV that often, maybe worth to learn.
> 
> @Rowe Is that if I can use WV or RLS for all slots (or rotate), or to get it at just FR for example?


 
Just FR but technically BL would be the same thing with a y2.


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## jonlin (Mar 11, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> Lol yeah I couldn't think of anything else. I hate my last name so i just put the R


 
Rowe's last slot


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## DaKrazedKyubizt (Mar 11, 2012)

I like it.

I like it a lot.

I will undoubtedly learn it.


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## Sillas (Mar 11, 2012)

This method/variation, in my view, has a great and epic potential.
Rowe, you are making History.


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## Sa967St (Mar 11, 2012)

StachuK1992 said:


> one in 4? what all cases are you simplifying to R U' R'?


It's assuming every regular LS case ends with either R U' R', R U R', F' U' F or F' U F'. They're not evenly distributed of course, and there are algs people use that don't end in either.


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## rowehessler (Mar 12, 2012)

Sa967St said:


> It's assuming every regular LS case ends with either R U' R', R U R', F' U' F or F' U F'. They're not evenly distributed of course, and there are algs people use that don't end in either.



lol thank you, yeah I was having a tough time trying to explain it.


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## oll+phase+sync (Mar 23, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> I know almost all of my OLL's from both angles so if I see that I am getting an ENVY then I use another alg which avoids it. Therefore I almost never get ENVY's.



I don't think this works without learning additinal OLL variants.
At least 18 of my (optimal) OLL's are not permuting Corners (Sune,...), and the are also some diagonal OLLs (FRUR'U'F',...) - for all these cases mirroring/inverting my OLL will not make ENVY disapear.

Personally I use even more then 18 non permuting OLLs (around 40) especially for all this cases I use R-OLL recogniton (didn't know it has a name so far)


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## Sillas (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm training Winter Variation from the Rowe's website, are good algs (2/3-gen). 
It would be nice to have sames WV algorithms mirrored to the left. Is more easy to memorize, and would have a better cost-benefit.


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## timeless (Mar 23, 2012)

Sillas said:


> I'm training Winter Variation from the Rowe's website, are good algs (2/3-gen).
> It would be nice to have sames WV algorithms mirrored to the left. Is more easy to memorize, and would have a better cost-benefit.


 
this site might be helpful, http://cube.crider.co.uk/algtrans.html


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## Escher (Mar 23, 2012)

oll+phase+sync said:


> I don't think this works without learning additinal OLL variants.
> At least 18 of my (optimal) OLL's are not permuting Corners (Sune,...), and the are also some diagonal OLLs (FRUR'U'F',...) - for all these cases mirroring/inverting my OLL will not make ENVY disapear.
> 
> Personally I use even more then 18 non permuting OLLs (around 40) especially for all this cases I use R-OLL recogniton (didn't know it has a name so far)


 
Yup, mirroring/inverting OLLs isn't effective 1/3rd of the time, you just have to learn a different alg if the alg you normally uses solves diag CP or solved CP.


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## jskyler91 (Mar 23, 2012)

timeless said:


> this site might be helpful, http://cube.crider.co.uk/algtrans.html


 I was just about to link to that lol.


Escher said:


> Yup, mirroring/inverting OLLs isn't effective 1/3rd of the time, you just have to learn a different alg if the alg you normally uses solves diag CP or solved CP.


 
I tested my U2 algs to make sure of course. I have about 20 or so that have different effects on the corner permutation from the U2 angle.


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## CoryThigpen (Apr 12, 2012)

Rowe, you motivated me to learn WV. 4 down, 23 to go. Thanks!


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## jskyler91 (Apr 12, 2012)

I keep wish washing on learning UB,UL and WV fully. My biggest problem is that if I don't learn to mirror them then I will really only be using these like 1 out of every 6 or 7 solves, maybe less because i have many f2l cases that are just algs which dont end with the block formed and then inserted. I would be interested to see some stats on how often these will actually be used if you could do front right and front left. Because just doing RLS 1 out of 7 solves is really not enought to make me get really comfortable and fast with the algs. 

EDIT: Can someone create a RLS TRANER? This would be really cool, especially if it mirrored things to all slots, this way you could practice EVERY case as many times as you needed.


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## Bob (Apr 12, 2012)

I just finished learning WV the other day. I found most of Rowe's algs to be my favorite...probably in part because he taught me the first few of them. To practice, I have just been scrambling and solving 2-gen. This does not help, however in practicing the other slots or non-WV cases.


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## rowehessler (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm now done learning RLS. I learned all of the cases except for when all the edges are unoriented (I'm not really sure those are worth it, sledgehammer + OLL is fine for me). As of right now I haven't had any amazingly fast times with any because the recognition still needs work, but I'm slowly getting better at them all.


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## Godmil (Apr 13, 2012)

Can't wait to find out how you get on with this as you get more practice. Well done learning the set.


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## cubecraze1 (Apr 13, 2012)

I will get on to learning some of these. will there ever be a full set of 57 winter variations (f2ll) not just the dot and cross cases?


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## pady (Apr 13, 2012)

Nice work Rowe! I also had the idea of such thing like RLS when I learned a few WV-cases. I look forward to learn some RLS-cases when I'm done with normal WV.
btw: here.. http://rowe.cubing.net/rls/wv.php shouldn't the first algorithm be U L' U2.. instead of U' L' U2..?


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## rowehessler (Apr 14, 2012)

pady said:


> Nice work Rowe! I also had the idea of such thing like RLS when I learned a few WV-cases. I look forward to learn some RLS-cases when I'm done with normal WV.
> btw: here.. http://rowe.cubing.net/rls/wv.php shouldn't the first algorithm be U L' U2.. instead of U' L' U2..?



no its correct i think you're referring to the alg if it was (U) L' U2 R *U* R' U2 L. My alg on the site is different.


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## pady (Apr 14, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> no its correct i think you're referring to the alg if it was (U) L' U2 R *U* R' U2 L. My alg on the site is different.


 
Yep, you're right. I didn't notice you're using an other alg...


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## sa11297 (Apr 14, 2012)

This is a lot of algorithms (I will still learn WV), so is it better to learn this or a couple of sets of zbll (or ollcp)? While I am asking, is zbll more useful or ollcp or just depends on the person?


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## TheAwesomeAlex (Apr 14, 2012)

found this on youtube. what was the time?


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## Ickenicke (Apr 14, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> This is a lot of algorithms (I will still learn WV), so is it better to learn this or a couple of sets of zbll (or ollcp)? While I am asking, is zbll more useful or ollcp or just depends on the person?



I think recognition is better for RLS.


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## jskyler91 (Apr 14, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> I'm now done learning RLS. I learned all of the cases except for when all the edges are unoriented (I'm not really sure those are worth it, sledgehammer + OLL is fine for me). As of right now I haven't had any amazingly fast times with any because the recognition still needs work, but I'm slowly getting better at them all.


 
How often are you getting to use these algs? Do you do this every solve or not really that often?


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## A Leman (Apr 14, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> I'm now done learning RLS. I learned all of the cases except for when all the edges are unoriented (I'm not really sure those are worth it, sledgehammer + OLL is fine for me). As of right now I haven't had any amazingly fast times with any because the recognition still needs work, but I'm slowly getting better at them all.


 
How long did this take? could you please explain how you went about learning them. For example, how many algs per day and breaks it took.


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## rowehessler (Apr 14, 2012)

I get them about 1 in 4 solves. I started learning them in January so about 3 months to learn them all. I learned them by subsets and learned like one set per week or so and then break and just practice those dew


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## jskyler91 (Apr 14, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> I get them about 1 in 4 solves. I started learning them in January so about 3 months to learn them all. I learned them by subsets and learned like one set per week or so and then break and just practice those dew


 
Thanks for the reply, my biggest problem with learning these is that less than half of my f2l algs end with a block formed, this would make my chances of getting and RLS even lower right? I just worry that 100 plus algs for only a 1 in 4 chance of using them is a little bit of a waste. How do you feel about them? Do you do anything to help ensure that you get a block formed in the front right slot?


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## rowehessler (Apr 14, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Thanks for the reply, my biggest problem with learning these is that less than half of my f2l algs end with a block formed, this would make my chances of getting and RLS even lower right? I just worry that 100 plus algs for only a 1 in 4 chance of using them is a little bit of a waste. How do you feel about them? Do you do anything to help ensure that you get a block formed in the front right slot?


 
well half of the f2l cases set up to it with only a few moves, but I don't try to set up to them every time. I will hopefully generate lags with the pair broken as well, but the recognition will be worse and I don't think I'll actually learn them. The only thing i think I will get out of RLS is a few ridiculous singles once in a while, but I don't think my average would be affected that much seeing as I won't be using them every time. Only time will tell I guess, hopefully by nationals I will be comfortable with them all.

should i make videos on the algs?


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## cubecraze1 (Apr 14, 2012)

TheAwesomeAlex said:


> found this on youtube. what was the time?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Video


 
9.27 you hear them say in the vid.


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## A Leman (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. I already know wv so I am going to try to learn most of these. From what i see, you choose very good algs. These make pll skips so much cooler!


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## ottozing (Apr 15, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> should i make videos on the algs?


 
I think the written version on your website is enough. You should however put winter variation algs for BR on your site.

PS Have you learned winter variation from 2 angles or just 1?


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## sa11297 (Apr 15, 2012)

you could make a video just explaining what RLS is because many people have not seen this thread and do not know what it is.


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## jskyler91 (Apr 15, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> well half of the f2l cases set up to it with only a few moves, but I don't try to set up to them every time. I will hopefully generate lags with the pair broken as well, but the recognition will be worse and I don't think I'll actually learn them. The only thing i think I will get out of RLS is a few ridiculous singles once in a while, but I don't think my average would be affected that much seeing as I won't be using them every time. Only time will tell I guess, hopefully by nationals I will be comfortable with them all.
> 
> should i make videos on the algs?


 
I always say a video is better than a written explanation, but I can tell you that making that video would be incredibly time consuming. My f2l vid which one had about 200 algs in it was over an hour long after editing it down dramatically and the original footage was around 2 hours. I would love to see how you finger them though. Thanks again for sharing all of your hard work. Even if I don't choose to use this, I really appreciate your effort here and I think this has a lot of potential if someone is willing to try and mirror all of the algs.


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## sa11297 (Apr 16, 2012)

jskyler91 got me thinking, would it be helpful to learn a kind of R Oll for RLS or maybe just WV? You would be looking at the corners already anyway.


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## A Leman (Apr 16, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> jskyler91 got me thinking, would it be helpful to learn a kind of R Oll for RLS or maybe just WV? You would be looking at the corners already anyway.


 
I think this would be way too many algs. I guess combining rls with r oll would create well over 1000 algs with difficult recognition and few benifits.


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## sa11297 (Apr 16, 2012)

A Leman said:


> I think this would be way too many algs. I guess combining rls with r oll would create well over 1000 algs with difficult recognition and few benifits.


 
R Oll is not any algorithms right? It is just recognition, so if you can do it for the 57 cases of Oll then the 24 (I think) cases of WV should not be too bad. I can see how doing this for complete R Oll would be too difficult. Btw, are there any R Oll web pages or videos other than jskyler91's and the page on absolutemind.com?


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## Bob (Apr 16, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> R Oll is not any algorithms right? It is just recognition, so if you can do it for the 57 cases of Oll then the 24 (I think) cases of WV should not be too bad. I can see how doing this for complete R Oll would be too difficult. Btw, are there any R Oll web pages or videos other than jskyler91's and the page on absolutemind.com?


 
There are 27 WV cases and 27*8 = 216 RLS cases in total.


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## sa11297 (Apr 16, 2012)

Bob said:


> There are 27 WV cases and 27*8 = 216 RLS cases in total.


 
yeah so a modified R OLL for just WV should not be too bad. It is just that WV is not used that often, so the benefit would not be that much.


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## Rpotts (Apr 16, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> yeah so a modified R OLL for just WV should not be too bad. It is just that WV is not used that often, so the benefit would not be that much.


 
But how many CP patterns are there for the 5 remaining corners with WV? Can you easily distinguish between them using two adjacent faces like in CxLL?


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## Foster Conklin (Apr 16, 2012)

could this also be used to force a oll case where all edges are oriented? Instead of learning all 216, would learning one of the algorithms from each subsection to orient last layer edges?


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## sa11297 (Apr 16, 2012)

Rpotts said:


> But how many CP patterns are there for the 5 remaining corners with WV? Can you easily distinguish between them using two adjacent faces like in CxLL?


 
I do not know. I was basically asking you guys. I do not even know regular R Oll. It was just a thought that I had. I wonder what jskyler91 thinks.


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## cubernya (Apr 16, 2012)

Foster Conklin said:


> could this also be used to force a oll case where all edges are oriented? Instead of learning all 216, would learning one of the algorithms from each subsection to orient last layer edges?


 
VHLS


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## sa11297 (Apr 16, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> VHLS


 
http://www.cubewhiz.com/vh.php
that is VHLS, Foster


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## cubacca1972 (Apr 16, 2012)

As an aside, Winter Variation was the name of the original diagram/algorithm document I submitted to the speedsolving club on yahoo groups. I have absolutely no idea where the term F2LL came from. 

Lucas Winter


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## Bob (Apr 16, 2012)

cubacca1972 said:


> As an aside, Winter Variation was the name of the original diagram/algorithm document I submitted to the speedsolving club on yahoo groups. I have absolutely no idea where the term F2LL came from.
> 
> Lucas Winter


 
Indeed, I prefer Winter Variation over F2LL. I read somewhere what it stands for but I don't know that it was supported by any evidence and I think it was just a guess.


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## rowehessler (Apr 16, 2012)

I think I'm renaming RLS to Rowe variation. RV for short. RLS stands for restless leg syndrome


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## Bob (Apr 16, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> I think I'm renaming RLS to Rowe variation. RV for short. RLS stands for restless leg syndrome


 
Haha, good idea.


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## RNewms27 (Apr 16, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> I think I'm renaming RLS to Rowe variation. RV for short. RLS stands for restless leg syndrome


 
That made me chuckle.


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## Brest (Apr 16, 2012)

Spoiler: Video



[youtubewide]zdmNknNY1h8[/youtubewide]


R2 D U2 B2 R2 U' L' D2 L2 F' L B2 F' R B' L' U L2 R2

x2 y // inspection
U' R2' U R x' r' U r D2 // cross
r U' r' F r B r' // 1st pair
U2' R' U2 R U R' U' R // 2nd pair
d U3' x' R U' R' U x R U R' // 3rd pair
y U' R R' U R U' R' U' R U' R' // setup
y' r' U' r r' R U M' // OLS
U // AUF
View at alg.garron.us

```
[B]Step	Time	STM	stps	ETM	etps[/B]	
[COLOR="red"]Total	9.27	49	5.29	60	6.47	[/COLOR]
						
Cross+1	2.81	14	4.98	17	6.05	
F2L-1	5.89	31	5.26	39	6.62	
LSLL	3.38	18	5.33	21	6.21	
						
[B][SIZE="4"]%[/SIZE]						
Step		Time	STM	ETM[/B]		
Cross+1/F2L-1	48%	45%	44%			
F2L-1/Total	64%	63%	65%
```


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## rowehessler (Apr 16, 2012)

Brest said:


> Spoiler: Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
wow what a crappy solve


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## Kirjava (Apr 18, 2012)

I like that you used OLS - it's like using EOLS instead of ZBLS.


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## rowehessler (Apr 18, 2012)

new pb with an RV: 6.20
case was U' F' U' F U' R U' R' and U perm
first non lucky sub7 with one


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## Bob (Apr 18, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> new pb with an RV: 6.20
> case was U' F' U' F U' R U' R' and U perm
> first non lucky sub7 with one


 
Very cool.


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## Sillas (Apr 24, 2012)

ottozing said:


> You should however put winter variation algs for BR on your site.


Are you kidding me? 
A moment please... 



rowehessler said:


> should i make videos on the algs?



If you want divulge more this system/method, would be nice... and also have few tutorials about Winter Variation - without decent recognition and all algs.


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## ottozing (Apr 25, 2012)

Sillas said:


> Are you kidding me?


 
well to be fair he did say that he was going to learn winter variation from 2 angles. plus i find text based tutorials better than video tutorials.


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## Bob (Apr 25, 2012)

I tested Rowe on a few of these today between bowling frames. He still knows them.


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## zzomtceo (Apr 30, 2012)

Would this be faster than MGLS?


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## Godmil (May 1, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> This makes little to no sense.



Mallards > Ducks.

Rowe, you've been using this for a wee while now, what are your current thoughts on RV?


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## rowehessler (May 1, 2012)

Godmil said:


> Mallards > Ducks.
> 
> Rowe, you've been using this for a wee while now, what are your current thoughts on RV?


 
Honestly, RV (OLLS) (OLLLS) (OLLLLLLLLLLLLS) or whatever the **** people want to ****ing call it, who ****ing cares, is fast on cases that have 0,1, or 2 cases that are misoriented. They are easier to recognize this way, but when its 3 corners unoriented, its totally unworthy it. the cases/rtecognition sucks major ass.


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## Godmil (May 1, 2012)

thanks for the update.


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## soldii3runit (May 1, 2012)

rowehessler said:


> Honestly, RV (OLLS) (OLLLS) (OLLLLLLLLLLLLS) or whatever the **** people want to ****ing call it, who ****ing cares, is fast on cases that have 0,1, or 2 cases that are misoriented. They are easier to recognize this way, but when its 3 corners unoriented, its totally unworthy it. the cases/rtecognition sucks major ass.


 
thnx for the setups, I just learned 4 cases andd it helped my solve. well one of them helped

is there a possibilities chart thaatt tells youu how oftenn a ccase sshows up?


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## Bob (May 1, 2012)

soldii3runit said:


> thnx for the setups, I just learned 4 cases andd it helped my solve. well one of them helped
> 
> is there a possibilities chart thaatt tells youu how oftenn a ccase sshows up?


 
There's no symmetry so for RV, each case has a probability of 1/216 if you have a RV case.


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## JK (May 12, 2012)

It's really useful,but the problem is that it's hard to rocognize them quickly(otherwise you'll be slower than doing your normal OLL).So I'm going to learn only WV cases at present.


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## avgdi (Oct 27, 2013)

I'm wondering what the current status of RV is. Rowe, do you still use it? Has anyone else learned the all?


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## Jakube (Oct 27, 2013)

During the last cubecast-episode Mats Valk revealed, that he and Rowe are working on better algs and they will release a new version of it in the next weeks.


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## elrog (Oct 27, 2013)

I think doing a different last slot system is not really worth it if you add another look. I also think that it is not worth it if you have to have nearly 4 times the alg count for the same amount of looks for the LS and LL with a maximum of saving 3 moves because a pair in the U layer is only 3 moves from being in the slot.

The only kind of slotting techniques that are worth it are partial corner control and partial edge control.


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## TheNextFeliks (Oct 28, 2013)

elrog said:


> The only kind of slotting techniques that are worth it are partial corner control and partial edge control.



Pruf?


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## Noahaha (Oct 28, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Pruf?



It's in the pudding.


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## AHornbaker (Oct 28, 2013)

With large alg sets like this, I've always thought it would be easier to learn the "building blocks" that make up the alg instead of trying to memorize all 216 algs. For example, you would have certain algs that Flip Just These Corners, Flip Just These Corners, Flip These Corners and These Edges. By learning this way, you would know a solution to all the cases, and have a better intuitive understanding. To execute, you would take one "block", do a U move or something, then do the other "block". If it worked perfectly, you would need only 15 algs (assuming a set of 15 for the first step and the same 15 for the second step would yield 225 combos) but you could probably do it in about 20. Kirjava did this type of thing for 1LLL and i'm trying it out for an EOCP method.


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## kcl (Oct 28, 2013)

rowehessler said:


> this is true. also some name changes have been done. mats created these algs in 2008 and kept them secret, so when i came up with the same idea i thought id publish it under my name. Mats contacted me and for the last few months, when we've had time, have combined our algs. Most of the them were the same, but some were not, and we're perfecting them. Out of fairness, RV is now VLS(Valk), and I have started generating the algs for broken pair, HLS(Hessler). Summer variation is a subset of HLS, and Winter Variation is a subset of VLS. altogether, were naming the entire set OLS (OLL Last Slot). Pretty much, with these 432 algs, you will be able to skip OLL every solve. tbh, every case where all of the edges are unoriented are useless and terrible, though, so i recommend not learning them. Mats and I are making a youtube channel and will be posted all of the algs there. I will be uploading the first few videos this week.



Are the all unoriented edge cases just too long?


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## CubezUBR (Nov 1, 2013)

any chance of intuitive


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## kcl (Nov 2, 2013)

CubezUBR said:


> any chance of intuitive



Lolno


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## elrog (Nov 2, 2013)

CubezUBR said:


> any chance of intuitive


Only if you get an extremely simple case or you break it up into steps. But what is the point in OLL plus Last Slot if you break it up into more steps anyway. If you did break it up, you might as well do the standard F2L then OLL.


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## 736 (May 29, 2014)

I don't understand why you can't just learn zz method instead of a bunch more algorithms


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## rowehessler (May 29, 2014)

736 said:


> I don't understand why you can't just learn zz method instead of a bunch more algorithms


ew


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## guysensei1 (May 29, 2014)

736 said:


> I don't understand why you can't just learn zz method instead of a bunch more algorithms



The ZZ method doesn't let you 'skip' OLL either.


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## TDM (May 29, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> The ZZ method doesn't let you 'skip' OLL either.


WV


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## IRNjuggle28 (May 30, 2014)

736 said:


> I don't understand why you can't just learn zz method instead of a bunch more algorithms



...where did that come from? ZZ and OLS have barely anything in common. And spoiler alert: ZZ is slower than CFOP for 2H for just about everyone. 

Not a good bump.


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## TDM (May 30, 2014)

IRNjuggle28 said:


> ZZ is slower than CFOP for 2H for just about everyone.


Why?


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## Renslay (May 30, 2014)

IRNjuggle28 said:


> ZZ is slower than CFOP for 2H for just about everyone.



Citation needed.


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## kcl (May 30, 2014)

Renslay said:


> Citation needed.



Take a look at the WCA database. There is no official sub 10 average with ZZ, but hundreds with CFOP.


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## guysensei1 (May 30, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Take a look at the WCA database. There is no official sub 10 average with ZZ, but hundreds with CFOP.



That's only because more people use CFOP. Give Phil Yu more time. He'll get there.


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## Renslay (May 30, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Take a look at the WCA database. There is no official sub 10 average with ZZ, but hundreds with CFOP.



That is completely irrelevant, since the difference between the size of the two groups (CFOP users and ZZ users) are immense.


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## TDM (May 30, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Give Phil Yu more time. He'll get there.


He isn't the only fast ZZ user. He doesn't have the fastest official ZZ average.


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## Escher (May 30, 2014)

Sample size is always relevant for discussing the meaning of pretty much any statement like that, bad citation. There are probably <20 people who use ZZ competitively. If you took 20 random CFOP users from the database you'd find that ZZ was by far the faster method. Does that lead you to believe that ZZ is faster now? No.

Personally speaking I think ZZ can definitely be faster than CFOP, it's just that it is much higher skillcap. I got to ~12 second average with ZZ after practising for a month when I was around 9ish at CFOP, and I'd barely scratched the surface of where you can go with it, and my EOLine was awful.


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## kcl (May 30, 2014)

Escher said:


> Sample size is always relevant for discussing the meaning of pretty much any statement like that, bad citation. There are probably <20 people who use ZZ competitively. If you took 20 random CFOP users from the database you'd find that ZZ was by far the faster method. Does that lead you to believe that ZZ is faster now? No.
> 
> Personally speaking I think ZZ can definitely be faster than CFOP, it's just that it is much higher skillcap. I got to ~12 second average with ZZ after practising for a month when I was around 9ish at CFOP, and I'd barely scratched the surface of where you can go with it, and my EOLine was awful.



This is true, I didn't think about sample size. I think it could be faster, but too many people use CFOP and don't want to switch to it.


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## kcl (May 30, 2014)

Escher said:


> Sample size is always relevant for discussing the meaning of pretty much any statement like that, bad citation. There are probably <20 people who use ZZ competitively. If you took 20 random CFOP users from the database you'd find that ZZ was by far the faster method. Does that lead you to believe that ZZ is faster now? No.
> 
> Personally speaking I think ZZ can definitely be faster than CFOP, it's just that it is much higher skillcap. I got to ~12 second average with ZZ after practising for a month when I was around 9ish at CFOP, and I'd barely scratched the surface of where you can go with it, and my EOLine was awful.



This is true, I didn't think about sample size. I think it could be faster, but too many people use CFOP and don't want to switch to it.


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