# chinese 7x7.....



## daniel0731ex (Feb 12, 2009)

http://speedcube.ihost.tw/goods.php?id=326



....is available now


stickered with smooth tiles

made by type D

so, type d 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, and 7x7
i wonder when are they going to make the 6x6?



P.S. the type d 4x4 and 5x5 is ripoff from eastsheen.


for those of you who doesn't know yet, the type d 4x4 and 5x5 is already out for about a month


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## masterofthebass (Feb 12, 2009)

that's just ****ing lame...


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## jcuber (Feb 13, 2009)

No one should buy these. I won't. Someone should send V-cube an e-mail with a link to see if they can do something with their copyrights.
EDIT: How do you know how they are stickered? Did you buy one? They may be real v-cubes, because some of the pictures have the V-logo on them. They also may just be copied from the v-cube site. Thay do have the 6x6.


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## Gparker (Feb 13, 2009)

what the?!!?!?


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## edwardtimliu (Feb 13, 2009)

isnt 1100 yuan like 30 - 40 bucks?


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## masterofthebass (Feb 13, 2009)

1400 Taiwan dollars = 41.15300 U.S. dollars


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## jcuber (Feb 13, 2009)

I just had a very rebellious thought: Adjustable?


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## blade740 (Feb 13, 2009)

When it pops, enjoy your broken piece when you realize you can't just push pieces back in like on a V-Cube.


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## Unknown.soul (Feb 13, 2009)

It finally happened, hopefully Verdes will do something about it.



jcuber said:


> How do you know how they are stickered?


It's in the product description.


jcuber said:


> I just had a very rebellious thought: Adjustable?


There are no such things as rivets in puzzles in China (sans Rubik's)


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## jcuber (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't want to buy one for the sake of Verdes, but I WANT AN ADJUSTABLE V-CORE!

Luckily for now, my pro-verdes side won, mainly because I can't speak whatever language the page is in.


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## qqwref (Feb 13, 2009)

This makes me mad


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## JTW2007 (Feb 13, 2009)

Weak. That's just low. Weak...


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## Swordsman Kirby (Feb 13, 2009)

Don't worry, they're apparently REALLY bad in quality.


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 13, 2009)

hey, maybe we should write an article about it, titled "sour grapes or sore grapes"


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## Hadley4000 (Feb 13, 2009)

It was just a matter of time.


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## qqwref (Feb 13, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> hey, maybe we should write an article about it, titled "sour grapes or sore grapes"



Huh? That doesn't make any sense.


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## Wacky (Feb 13, 2009)

masterofthebass said:


> 1400 Taiwan dollars = 41.15300 U.S. dollars



That's only ~25% cheaper given current exchange rates with the Euro, don't understand why anyone would risk buying a knockoff... (except for particular spare parts or something)


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## Unknown.soul (Feb 13, 2009)

qqwref said:


> daniel0731ex said:
> 
> 
> > hey, maybe we should write an article about it, titled "sour grapes or sore grapes"
> ...



Maybe it's a proverb, I dunno.


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## Ton (Feb 13, 2009)

jcuber said:


> No one should buy these. I won't. Someone should send V-cube an e-mail with a link to see if they can do something with their copyrights.
> EDIT: How do you know how they are stickered? Did you buy one? They may be real v-cubes, because some of the pictures have the V-logo on them. They also may just be copied from the v-cube site. Thay do have the 6x6.



My 3x3 is a Rubik's brand -always will be- so I guess you will not buy ans use clone 3x3 like the DIY types A to F ?


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## VP7 (Feb 13, 2009)

Unknown.soul said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > daniel0731ex said:
> ...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes


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## Ton (Feb 13, 2009)

http://www.windowslivetranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=Internal#http://speedcube.ihost.tw/goods.php?id=326

This gives some translation


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## d4m4s74 (Feb 13, 2009)

buy it for the core and use real v-cube pieces for the rest

if it's adjustable


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## DcF1337 (Feb 13, 2009)

Tempting, really tempting.

But I hardly even touch my V7 to start with, so why bother?

PS. If you respect Verdes, please don't buy the Chinese 7x7.


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## Escher (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> jcuber said:
> 
> 
> > No one should buy these. I won't. Someone should send V-cube an e-mail with a link to see if they can do something with their copyrights.
> ...



im afraid that im going to have to take the view that these (and other) copies are acceptable - how can i possibly boycott one blatant copy and champion others (in the form of DIYs, eastsheens, v5s)?

with the v5, and eastsheens, the layman couldn't tell the difference between that and a rubiks product, despite their structural differences. The only 'obvious' difference is the lack of a logo.

with DIYs, they might have adjustable cores, different colours etc, but at the end of the day they _are_ a ripoff of rubik's merchandise.

I'm not going to buy a chinese 7x7, but i cant let myself look down on anybody who does.


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## Ton (Feb 13, 2009)

Escher said:


> im afraid that im going to have to take the view that these (and other) copies are acceptable - how can i possibly boycott one blatant copy and champion others (in the form of DIYs, eastsheens, v5s)?



I guess that is what most cubers will do, expect with clone Rubik, Rubik is a strong brand and has specialist to protect the Rubik's cube. Even with clones Rubik gets a lot of money. I think this is not true for Mr Verdes, who I guess invest a lot and it will be hard to compete with clones. And to do legal actions in China is very difficult as I know for the Rubik's cube. In the end a clone 7x7 will hurt V-cube financially, I find this not fair. In the same way I think it is not fair to use non-Rubik brands 3x3.


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## Jai (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> http://www.windowslivetranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=Internal#http://speedcube.ihost.tw/goods.php?id=326
> 
> This gives some translation



Windows Live Translator translated the product title of the china7 (chinese 7x7, like chinese megaminx -> chinaminx ) to "seven phase of the magic Necker jingpin (white) processing or purchase". XD


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## Escher (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> I guess that is what most cubers will do, expect with clone Rubik, Rubik is a strong brand and has specialist to protect the Rubik's cube. Even with clones Rubik gets a lot of money. I think this is not true for Mr Verdes, who I guess invest a lot and it will be hard to compete with clones. And to do legal actions in China is very difficult as I know for the Rubik's cube. In the end a clone 7x7 will hurt V-cube financially, I find this not fair. In the same way I think it is not fair to use non-Rubik brands 3x3.


 
I think that (I've heard that) China 'does not accept' external patents, i.e. they let manufacturers make whatever they like, as long as its good for the chinese economy!
i still maintain that having DIYs is 'a good thing', as it gives rubiks some healthy competition, meaning that they (probably) won't let standards completely drop.
I think my problem is that i have a deep dislike of monopolies, yet i completely appreciate verdes (and rubiks) innovation, so i don't know where to stand


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## AvGalen (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> Escher said:
> 
> 
> > im afraid that im going to have to take the view that these (and other) copies are acceptable - how can i possibly boycott one blatant copy and champion others (in the form of DIYs, eastsheens, v5s)?
> ...


 
I still don't know what is protected and what isn't. Can anyone explain this to me "like I am a 10 year old"?

As far as I understand Eastsheen 2x2x2, 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 are perfectly legal because they have a different colorscheme, different internal mechanism and don't pretend to be Rubiks puzzles.

V5, V6 and V7 WHITE are obviously perfectly legal because they are unique creations and also fit the above 3 rules (colorscheme, mechanism, branding)

V5, V6 and V7 BLACK seem to violate the colorscheme rule, but nobody seems to care :confused:

Obviously clones that carry a V-Logo or a Rubiks-Logo are illegal (depending on the laws of the country they are made in)

All other cases seem to be unclear to me. So please, could someone
a) Confirm/Deny my assumptions about the 3 rules (colorscheme, mechanism, branding)
b) Give examples of common, but illegal, cubes and explain why
c) Explain in which countries these illegal cubes would be illegal

I have great respect for Verdes work, but at the same time I wouldn't mind more competition in the production of cubes. A competitor might just be what Verdes needs to fix the problems with the current models (unadjustable screws, locking, popping, spare-pieces come to mind)


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## Ton (Feb 13, 2009)

For all 3x3 the are illegal they voilate Copyright, Rubik 3x3 is protect like an art object, patent is expired. So even an other internal mechanism will violate a Rubik's copyright.

V-cube 7x7 mechanism is patented if the clone uses the same it will be illegal

I do not think Rubik consider 4x4 and 5x5 all types legal, but they do not act on it 

a) is not true for the 3x3 Rubik
b) all 3x3 non-Rubik are illegal , copyright violation
c) for Rubik if there is a distributor in that country


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## Stefan (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> b) all 3x3 non-Rubik are illegal, copyright violation


Which copyright? I tried to find it but failed. Can you show it to us?


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## Odin (Feb 13, 2009)

> Copyright notice
> 
> 
> Rubik® and Rubik's Cube® are registered trademarks throughout the world of Seven Towns Limited. Seven Towns Limited is the exclusive worldwide licensee of copyright in the Rubik's Cube puzzle and is the registered proprietor of European Community Trade Mark registrations in the images of the Rubik's Cube puzzle and the puzzle itself.
> ...


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## Ethan Rosen (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> jcuber said:
> 
> 
> > No one should buy these. I won't. Someone should send V-cube an e-mail with a link to see if they can do something with their copyrights.
> ...



Theres a big difference there. 3x3 "clones" sold by cube4you and other vendors are not knockoffs. They are modifications on an expired patent, so not only is it legal for them to be produced, but a lot of the moral arguments to buying them are null since the differences are enough to make a signifigant increase in turning.

As far as I know, this is an exact copy, but with poorer quality because of cheap plastic. The patent exists, so this is illegal, and as far as anyone knows, there is no difference in the mechanism, so there is no moral argument to buy these either. Unlike with the DIYs, if you buy a knockoff 7x7, you are quite literallly aiding in theft.


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## Stefan (Feb 13, 2009)

Odin, is that supposed to be an answer to my request? Because that's insufficient. At the very least, a definition of "Rubik's Cube puzzle" must be provided.


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## Ton (Feb 13, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Theres a big difference there. 3x3 "clones" sold by cube4you and other vendors are not knockoffs. They are modifications on an expired patent, so not only is it legal for them to be produced, but a lot of the moral arguments to buying them are null since the differences are enough to make a signifigant increase in turning.


First many clone 3x3 are excellent products, but to Rubik they all violate Copyrights. It is illegal to import them e.g to Europe even if they do not use any brand. Wallmart made a big mistake in the past to produce a cube like in your argument....Now they sell them as Rubik..... ..


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## AvGalen (Feb 13, 2009)

Patents never scared me, but Copyright would give 7 Towns an incredible amount of power. I just read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrights and this part scares me

*[edit] Exclusive rights*

Several exclusive rights typically attach to the holder of a copyright:

to produce copies or reproductions of the work and to sell those copies (mechanical rights; including, sometimes, electronic copies: distribution rights)
to import or export the work
to create derivative works (works that adapt the original work)
to perform or display the work publicly (performance rights)
to sell or assign these rights to others
to transmit or display by radio or video (broadcasting rights)
"to perform or display the work publicly" means that all youtube tutorials that show a cube are copyright infringements 

Actually, me cubing in a train would be as well


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## Odin (Feb 13, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> Odin, is that supposed to be an answer to my request? Because that's insufficient. At the very least, a definition of "Rubik's Cube puzzle" must be provided.



No. Its just the copyright Erno Rubik has on his little twisty puzzles. And sense it doesn’t go into much detail that’s more or less how people are able to make knock offs Of the "Rubik's Cube puzzle"....


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## masterofthebass (Feb 13, 2009)

Personally, I don't see how you can copyright a mechanism for a puzzle. That entire "intellectual property" statement is complete crap. All that says, is that Seven Towns owns the trademark of the Rubik's brand. Unless you look at the Rubik's cube as a sculpture (which I'm sure it can be looked at, but i don't really think it applies) there is no basis for a copyright to be placed on it. 


Maybe in the eye of Seven Towns, any 3x3 is a copyright infringement, but I highly doubt that is the case in actuality, since patents have been given to modified versions (i.e. Vcube). Just because you personally believe something, doesn't actually make it true. 


Also, James (the owner of cube4you) is very aware of patents. I talked to him recently about making a new puzzle, and the first thing he asked me was "does someone own the patent." Cube4You is not, in my opinion, a "knockoff" company, when it comes to making cubes.


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## Stefan (Feb 13, 2009)

masterofthebass said:


> Unless you look at the Rubik's cube as a sculpture (which I'm sure it can be looked at, but i don't really think it applies)


You mean like this?
http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2004/11/rubiks_cube_r_a.html


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## Ton (Feb 13, 2009)

masterofthebass said:


> Personally, I don't see how you can copyright a mechanism for a puzzle. That entire "intellectual property" statement is complete crap. All that says, is that Seven Towns owns the trademark of the Rubik's brand. Unless you look at the Rubik's cube as a sculpture (which I'm sure it can be looked at, but i don't really think it applies) there is no basis for a copyright to be placed on it.
> 
> 
> Maybe in the eye of Seven Towns, any 3x3 is a copyright infringement, but I highly doubt that is the case in actuality, since patents have been given to modified versions (i.e. Vcube). Just because you personally believe something, doesn't actually make it true.
> ...


Well Wallmart thought they could make cubes, Rubik consider any cube with 9 clored patches as its property. Wallmart lost a law suit on this. It is not the patent that is protected it is the image. The cube as object is considered the trademark and may not be copied. I respect cube4you but I think they violate the Rubik copyrights/trademark


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## AvGalen (Feb 13, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> masterofthebass said:
> 
> 
> > Unless you look at the Rubik's cube as a sculpture (which I'm sure it can be looked at, but i don't really think it applies)
> ...


I think 7 Towns really thinks of the Rubiks cube as a form of art (and I don't think they are wrong in that). The patent on the mechanism is gone and now they protect their market with the copyright (SMART!)

But from Stefan's link, that might not be realistic. So just like Stefan, I am wondering if 7 Towns has an official copyright (and them claiming so on their website doesn't count)



> In a recent case (TrafFix), the Supreme Court ruled that items that were previously patented are generally considered functional. Because tradedress is only on nonfunctional features of an object, there can be no protection of previously patented elements


 
Ton, please keep patents, trademark and copyright seperate as they


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## Wacky (Feb 13, 2009)

http://www.faqs.org/rulings/rulings2006HQW480158.html

AFAIK trademark is only over a 3x3x3 with the standard colour scheme, and so the knock-off cubes with random colour schemes are fine.

However, that might imply that the people stickering their diys in the usual colour schemes or making youtube videos might be breaking copyright...? Not sure how fair use may/may not apply...

But back on topic there is obviously a current patent on the V-7 so a direct copy like this is clearly not legal.


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## Stefan (Feb 13, 2009)

Wacky said:


> there is obviously *a current patent* on the V-7 *so a direct copy like this is clearly not legal*.


According to this page there are actuall *51* national patents:
http://www.v-cubes.com/inventor.php

Why do you suppose that is? Maybe because you need to get patents for each country where you want copying to be illegal? But then some countries could be missing and copies would be legal there.


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## Ethan Rosen (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Theres a big difference there. 3x3 "clones" sold by cube4you and other vendors are not knockoffs. They are modifications on an expired patent, so not only is it legal for them to be produced, but a lot of the moral arguments to buying them are null since the differences are enough to make a signifigant increase in turning.
> ...



Although Rubik may think that those violate laws, the simple fact is that the patent for the 3x3 is expired. They hold only the rights to the trademark, which the DIYs (usually) don't violate. Although the morality of them is up for debate, 3x3 DIYs are legal.


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## Ton (Feb 13, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Ton said:
> 
> 
> > Ethan Rosen said:
> ...



Huh , the cube is the trademark ,as Wallmart knows now , copy of a cube is a voilation of the trademark. But I guess you do not believe me.


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## Stefan (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> Wallmart made a big mistake in the past to produce a cube like in your argument....Now they sell them as Rubik..... ..


Do you have more information about this? News article or wikipedia article or something? Also, when they sell their clones as Rubik now, isn't that even worse?


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Ton said:
> ...



I tried Googling for the trademark dispute with Walmart, but I couldn't find it. Do you have any link to the case between them?


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## Deleted member 2864 (Feb 13, 2009)

walmart made knok-offs??? 0.o Lol were they any better or were they crappy ones?


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## AvGalen (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Ton said:
> ...


 
I don't understand what you mean by "the cube is the trademark" and "copy of a cube is a violoation of the trademark".

The link about the Magic Cubes was very enlightning, especially the conclusion:


> Because the four Magic Cube samples consist of different colors from the protected mark, both on the cube itself as well as on almost all of their faces, they are unlikely to confuse consumers. Therefore, none of the four Magic Cube samples infringe the protected Rubik’s Cube trademark.


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## Ethan Rosen (Feb 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> Ethan Rosen said:
> 
> 
> > Ton said:
> ...



I believe that there was a dispute with walmart, and I believe that Seven towns has a trademark. This trademark though, only applies to a 3x3 cube with black plastic, a Rubik's logo, their color scheme, and it must be confusingly similar to tho Rubik's Cube to be illegal. I don't know enough about the walmart situation, but for the most part, DIY cubes are legal.


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## qqwref (Feb 14, 2009)

For me the difference between a 3x3 knockoff and a V-7 knockoff is in respect towards the official company.

I respect Rubik for inventing the original 3x3 mechanism, but this was decades ago and the patent has expired. He and Seventowns have already made many millions of dollars from this and I don't think they need more money any more than I need more air. I don't respect Seventowns as far as helping out or supporting the cubing community, because they really haven't put a lot of effort into trying to make their cubes better. As far as I can tell they think we are "fans" of the company itself. So I don't really mind if a few knockoff cubes are sold, especially if they are better than official storebought cubes, which in my opinion they certainly are.

On the other side, we have V-cubes. Verdes invented the mechanism and has patents which still apply. As a small business owner rather than a large corporation, the money from buying a cube really does affect him and his family. And in addition he helps out and supports the cubing community: V-cubes tries to improve their cubes however they can, is working on coming out with the remaining cubes, agreed to produce cubes in both white and black plastic, and has made friends with quite a few of the fastest bigcube solvers. I really do respect Verdes for this and that's the main reason why it saddens me so much more to see a knockoff V-7 than to see a knockoff Rubik's cube.


About trademarks and DIYs: I have heard that the Rubik company has trademarked the 'image' of the Rubik's cube. So this means their intellectual property is of a cube with 9 stickers on each of the 6 sides, and the color scheme on black plastic. However, even if this is true, unassembled DIYs do not fall under this trademark! Nobody is going to buy a package of cube parts and sticker sheets and think it is an official Rubik's cube. It may look like a Rubik's cube once it is assembled, but if it is not sold that way the trademark does not affect it. As far as the mechanism, the patent for that is expired, so there is no problem with that.


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## JTW2007 (Feb 14, 2009)

qqwref said:


> I don't think they need more money any more than I need more air.



Either Rubik's needs cash or you don't breathe.


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 14, 2009)

just to let you guys know, that erno rubik no longer have the control of the rubik's brand.....


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## Wacky (Feb 14, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> Wacky said:
> 
> 
> > there is obviously *a current patent* on the V-7 *so a direct copy like this is clearly not legal*.
> ...



Ah, didn't know about that. I thought that the there was some kind of international treaty that allowed for it to apply around the world but I guess that's not the case.

But on your list, it's patented in China which should mean that Verdes has the legal right to prevent production of copies there?


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## masterofthebass (Feb 14, 2009)

"Hi Dan,

thanks for the info.
Plz inform me of anything else you find.

We will get them if that is true."

This is an e-mail from Konstantinos I got in response to my e-mail notifying him. I hope he succeeds in what he should be able to do.


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## mazei (Feb 14, 2009)

I wonder if Rubik's will do anything when the V-3 comes out. As far as I know, it has a different mechanism and all so that would be interesting.


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## AvGalen (Feb 14, 2009)

qqwref: Just because you think a company has made enough money doesn't mean anything. And I haven't *seen* any improvements on the V5/V6/V7 since they came out. I do agree that the Verdes-family seems much more involved in the cubing community, but I have also met the Seven Towns people and they are much more involved then you seem to think. I think you have an excellent point in the "DIY isn't assembled logic"


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## Ton (Feb 14, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> qqwref: Just because you think a company has made enough money doesn't mean anything. And I haven't *seen* any improvements on the V5/V6/V7 since they came out. I do agree that the Verdes-family seems much more involved in the cubing community, but I have also met the Seven Towns people and they are much more involved then you seem to think. I think you have an excellent point in the "DIY isn't assembled logic"



Without the support of Seventowns speedcubing was not this big, it is the team effort of Ron and Dave and Chrissie (Seventowns) that made cubing big. Verdes family are just starting so it is expected that I noticed only support in sponsoring T-shirts and cubes, compared to Seventowns -who organized many big competitions - it is a small contribution
As for the DIY I come back with an official statement


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 21, 2009)

there's the in-box verson now

So weird! It says TYPE B on the packaging


http://www.wretch.cc/album/show.php?i=freecomic101&b=8&f=1593791216&p=0

what is funny is that on the box it says "all-rights reserved"




PS: i heard that type D is going to make their own 9x9 now, and it's coming out in May


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 21, 2009)

BTW, the cube is said to have ADJUSTABLE SCREWS!! looks like they pays more attention to our wishes...


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Feb 21, 2009)

chinese puzzles never have rivets.

someone with a v-7 should buy the knockoff and try it out. [only someone who already has a v-7, so it doesn't really screw the v-cube company, haha]


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## masterofthebass (Feb 21, 2009)

This makes me physically angry. Not only are they copying the actual puzzle, but they are copying hte packaging as well. "Z-cubes'... wtf. I really hope V-cubes can stop this ridiculousness before it ruins them


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 21, 2009)

masterofthebass said:


> This makes me physically angry. Not only are they copying the actual puzzle, but they are copying hte packaging as well. "Z-cubes'... wtf. I really hope V-cubes can stop this ridiculousness before it ruins them





err....it's not "Z" cube. It's 乙, which is actually 國乙 (type B), even though it's a type D


(terrible grammer)


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## blade740 (Feb 21, 2009)

The packaging looks the same. "NO LIMITS" etc. I seriously hope that whoever's doing this get's sued. That's the biggest knockoff I've even seen.


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## panyan (Feb 21, 2009)

this is apparently the video of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMm_KbNv7KA

*if you want to buy me one i will compare it to my official v7 for you - only 1000 now!*

better translation here: http://66.102.9.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://speedcube.ihost.tw/goods.php%3Fid%3D326&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://speedcube.ihost.tw/goods.php%253Fid%253D326%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG&usg=ALkJrhhwJTf0aR0cNJDMkjoTAZeSSKZc8w


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## toast (Feb 23, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_g_LDSs-Z0


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## panyan (Feb 23, 2009)

the guy makes them sound as good if not better than the genuine ones


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## Spyyder (Feb 23, 2009)

These companies can't be sued for copying other companies patented products because China doesn't "recognize" foreign patents. The Chinese government wont do anything about it because it helps their economy, all that can be done is to boycott these companies and not buy their products.


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## jcuber (Feb 23, 2009)

Spyyder said:


> These companies can't be sued for copying other companies patented products because China doesn't "recognize" foreign patents. The Chinese government wont do anything about it because it helps their economy, all that can be done is to boycott these companies and not buy their products.



And find/blow up/ignite/raid their factories


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## ISuckAtCubing (Feb 23, 2009)

calvin which is the owner of now store in hong kong said that that the made in china one has 327 pieces and the genuine one only has 218, and clavin also said it is better then they genuine v7 it is $350 hkd, and $290 for member


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## jcuber (Feb 24, 2009)

I think those extra pieces are just the core+screws+springs+centers+caps and maybe a few other things, just to make it "technically" different. Anyone can tell it is just a knockoff that should be banned.


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## Unknown.soul (Feb 24, 2009)

Found better mechanism pictures (click to see the full-size)


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## ISuckAtCubing (Feb 24, 2009)

nah i dont think so, they are cheaper, i think, next time when i go to hk, im going to now store, but i dont know when is the next time i would go to hk >.>


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## jcuber (Feb 24, 2009)

Where are those "extra pieces"? Liars. I said, the only difference is adjustability. It still hurts Verdes. If I didn't know better, I'd say from those pics that it is a V-7.


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## jcuber (Feb 24, 2009)

They are cheaper because they use less-expensive plastic and they don't have to make extremely expensive master molds, they just have to copy the v-cube pieces.


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## qqwref (Feb 24, 2009)

Someone please show Verdes these pictures... I hope that this factory gets shut down because it really is hurting Verdes, but IF they have discovered some way to make the V7 better, Verdes should definitely know about it.


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## Jai (Feb 24, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Someone please show Verdes these pictures... I hope that this factory gets shut down because it really is hurting Verdes, but IF they have discovered some way to make the V7 better, Verdes should definitely know about it.



So you want to shut down the factory and steal any improvements they have on the official V-7 design?


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## AvGalen (Feb 24, 2009)

jcuber said:


> Spyyder said:
> 
> 
> > These companies can't be sued for copying other companies patented products because China doesn't "recognize" foreign patents. The Chinese government wont do anything about it because it helps their economy, all that can be done is to boycott these companies and not buy their products.
> ...


Spyyder: I don't think that is true anymore. Please provide a source.
jcuber: You must be american


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## jcuber (Feb 24, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> jcuber: You must be american



I am, but I would say that even if I wasn't. It just isn't right. If I were even more patriotic, I would say they should just go ahead, because monopolies aren't allowed anywhere


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## ISuckAtCubing (Feb 24, 2009)

i dont think there is anything wrong with it, as long as it is better, and it may also make offical v7 to improve too, if the china is worst then the offical v7, then less peope is going to buy the china one


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## blade740 (Feb 24, 2009)

Spyyder said:


> These companies can't be sued for copying other companies patented products because China doesn't "recognize" foreign patents. The Chinese government wont do anything about it because it helps their economy, all that can be done is to boycott these companies and not buy their products.



http://v-cubes.com/pdf/patent.pdf says that Chinese patent 200480013109.3 is pending. That's not foreign.


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## qqwref (Feb 24, 2009)

ISuckAtCubing said:


> i dont think there is anything wrong with it



How can you think there is nothing wrong with stealing someone else's design? If you designed a puzzle and then some company in China started producing it and selling it to thousands of people around the world (without asking you and without giving you a fair share of the profits), I think you'd change your tune.


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Feb 24, 2009)

you know.. i have that cheap chinese mefferts 4x4x4 ripoff... perhaps mefferts is selling actual chinese puzzles! haha

sort of off topic, but close enough


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## SlapShot (Feb 24, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> there's the in-box verson now
> 
> So weird! It says TYPE B on the packaging
> 
> ...



I looked at this photo, and you can just make out the Yongjun Toys logo.
I recently bought one of their 5x5's on Ebay, and it had separate instructions on how to re-assemble it. On the bottom of the back page, it has a drawn picture of all their products. Included are the 6x6 and 7x7. It also says "Yongjun cube patents reserved, copyright is belonged"


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## Ton (Feb 24, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Someone please show Verdes these pictures... I hope that this factory gets shut down because it really is hurting Verdes, but IF they have discovered some way to make the V7 better, Verdes should definitely know about it.



Same goes for Rubik's clones, void cube clones etc, expect it seems I am the only one who cares about the Rubik clones , but indeed it hurts Mr Verdes much more since they made a big investment and for Rubik it is more protecting the brand name.


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## rahulkadukar (Feb 24, 2009)

Well is this similar to the Mefferts 7x7x7 and how are they offering something that cheap


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## MichaelErskine (Feb 24, 2009)

rahulkadukar said:


> Well is this similar to the Mefferts 7x7x7 and how are they offering something that cheap



They're both the same thing as far as we can tell - both total rip-offs.

They can offer them so cheap because they have not spent years of research and development, or secured the patents, or built up the market (e.g. trade shows and the V-Cube demonstration events). Perhaps they don't assemble them very well (case in point: my disappointing Meffert's rip-off mf8 megaminx!), or have shoddy quality control, or perhaps they exploit their workforce to squeeze the price down (no way of knowing about that one unless we can track down the factory and the assemblers)

Let your conscience lead the way!


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## Spyyder (Feb 24, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Spyyder: I don't think that is true anymore. Please provide a source.



The Chinese government is publicly against copyright/patent infringement but it does nothing to stop it.

Also, I doubt that Verdes could prove enough profit loss because of this for anyone other than us to actually care, especially when you have companies selling bootleg/fake harry potter books, fake ipods(brother got one, looked exactly like a nano even came in a genuine ipod nano box lawl), etc. and no one doing anything about any of that.

Does Verdes even has his products patented in China? If not then they will not get any legal protection.


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## MichaelErskine (Feb 24, 2009)

Spyyder said:


> Does Verdes even has his products patented in China? If not then they will not get any legal protection.



See earlier post...


blade740 said:


> http://v-cubes.com/pdf/patent.pdf says that Chinese patent 200480013109.3 is pending.


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## bamman1108 (Feb 24, 2009)

I'm not buying one, but as long as the internal mechanism is different, it's not a knock-off.

Verdes made a 5x5x5, but people aren't bashing him for it. Also, Erno Rubik must have spent a long time making the original Rubik's cube, but now most people here dismiss is product is crappy and buy knockoffs.

And just because it's 7x7x7 doesn't make this product any worse. Bigger cubes have already been thought of before, and although Verdes has the copyright for his mechanism behind a 7x7x7, he has no copyright for the idea of any 7x7x7.

I DO believe that Verdes worked harder and deserves more money for his work, I find it unfair to immediately hate this cube.


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## panyan (Feb 27, 2009)

bamman1108 said:


> I'm not buying one, but as long as the internal mechanism is different, it's not a knock-off.



i completely agree, different solution to same problem -> not knockoff


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## qqwref (Feb 27, 2009)

bamman1108 said:


> And just because it's 7x7x7 doesn't make this product any worse. Bigger cubes have already been thought of before, and although Verdes has the copyright for his mechanism behind a 7x7x7, he has no copyright for the idea of any 7x7x7.



It's exactly the same mechanism as the V-7... the Chinese guys just casted some pieces in two parts to change the number of pieces it had and evade Verdes's patent's specifications. If this was a newly invented 7x7 nobody would have any problem with it; the whole reason people are angry is because it is a direct copy of Verdes's work with no agreement to compensate him for inventing it.


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## Unknown.soul (Feb 28, 2009)

Their packaging is also in English...
http://www.pict.com/expo/199934/899033f392/page/1


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 28, 2009)

Unknown.soul said:


> Their packaging is also in English...
> http://www.pict.com/expo/199934/899033f392/page/1



wow...that's just....


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## jcuber (Feb 28, 2009)

How long is it going to take before verdes shuts these bastards down?


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## panyan (Feb 28, 2009)

Unknown.soul said:


> Their packaging is also in English...
> http://www.pict.com/expo/199934/899033f392/page/1



hmmm, interesting...


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## masterofthebass (Feb 28, 2009)

jcuber said:


> How long is it going to take before verdes shuts these bastards down?



nothing is instant... He's working on what he needs to do, and hopefully he will succeed.


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## Cheese_Board (Mar 1, 2009)

Compare the packaging to this: http://www.v-cubes.com/ecom/images/P/v7_img.jpg
They just removed the "V" in V CUBE and added in "Yong Jun".


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