# How would you solve this scramble?



## martijn_cube (Apr 19, 2008)

*How would you solve this scramble? 2nd scramble added.*

Just a random scramble from a timer:
Scramble: U2 B2 R D L2 B’ R’ F D’ B2 R2 F’ D F2 D’ L’ R2 F’ D2 L B F2 D’ L’ R2 

U: yellow
F: Red
edit: scramble with your cross color on bottom

This is how i would solve it:

Cross: D B’ L F’ L2 D’ (6) 

F2L pair1: L’U2L U’ B’UB (7)
F2L pair2: y’ RUR’ (3)
F2L pair3: y R’U2R U’ R’U’R (7)
F2L pair4: y’ UR’URU’ y RUR’ (8)

Total cross+f2l: 31

OLL: (RU2)(R2’FRF')(RU2R) (9) 
PLL: U yx (R’UR’) D2 (RU’R’) D2R2 x’ (10) 

Total moves: 50 
(but I don’t know if I have to count the y and x moves also as a move?, and I count U2 as one move. Don’t really know what the normal count rule for this is.) 

This is how I probably would solve it. I took it slow now, so maybe when I would speed I would make some different choices. 


But my question is, can you show me how you would solve it??

And I’m practically interested in how many people will get an OLL or PLL skip (or maybe both)
And this may help me with my cross and F2L solving.


thanks.


*Edit: *****ok second scramble for the ones who like to do another one*****
U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F
scramble with your cross color on bottom
it starts on paige 8*


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## Lt-UnReaL (Apr 19, 2008)

You counted correctly. 

How I'd solve:
Cross + F2L pair1: D L2 B' L' F' u' (6)
F2L pair2: U2 L' U' L U' L' U L (8)
F2L pair3 + F2L pair4: R' U' R2 U2 R' U R U R' (9)

Cross + F2L move count: 23

OLL: U L F' L' F L' U2 L d R U R' (12)
PLL: R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U (14)

I was just going for cross but ended up getting the first F2L pair, too...my normal Cross + F2L move count is about 7 moves higher than that...

EDIT: Here's some tips -For your 3rd pair on your solve, you can insert it as U2 L U' L' U2 L U' L'. On your 4th pair, you can insert it as U' R U R' U R U R'. These are faster because of no cube rotations.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 19, 2008)

thanx for the tips. your cross was really nice. never would have tought of the L2 move like that. and as for the third pair, that one is indeed easier. (would have got me an RUR' 4th pair too.) and for the 4th pair. strange wy i didn't do it that way. your 3rd and 4th is also very cool, never used that one before. can you also see it when speedsolving?
but seeing others solve the same solve is very handy i think. i can learn alot from this.

but not yet an oll or PLL skip. i wander if every scramble can get an oll or PLL skip. just by solving the cross and f2l different.


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## Dene (Apr 20, 2008)

Lt-UnReal: Would you really solve like that at speed? That is amazing, or else just extremely lucky!

Scrambled with yellow on top, red on front I would:
Cross: x' U2 x U R' U x' U L2
First pair: U L' U L U' y R U R'
Second pair: U' L' U L U' y R U R'
Third pair: y2 U R U' R' U R U' R' U R U' R'
Fourth pair: U L' U L U2 L' U' L

42 move F2L

OLL: r U R' U' r' R U R U' R'
PLL: U' y' R' U l' f' x R' U R' U' (l R) U' R' U R U

67 move total. I counted the (l R) in the V perm as one move, as really I do a cube rotation at the same time and it is impossible to write with the current notation.

I tried my best to make it reflect what I would normally do. Quite a long solve, I normally average mid-50's, but full of easy triggers and two very easy Last Layer algorithms.


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## Rpotts (Apr 20, 2008)

EDIT: I tried again (First try had a mistake) 

Cross: R' U' B' R F' L F (7)

F2L 1: U2 F' U F (4)
F2L 2: L U' L' U2 y2 L' U' L (7)
F2L 3: R' U' R F R' F' R (7) 
F2L 4: y U R U2 R' U2 F' U F (8)

Cross + F2L = 33 Moves HTM

OLLe: y2 F U R U' R' F' (6)
OLLc: y2 R U R' U R U2 R' U R' U' R U' R' U2 R (15)
PLLc: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' (17)
PLLe: y2 R2 U' F B' R2 F' B U' R2 (9)

LL = 47 Moves HTM

80 Moves total...

That was an atrocious LL for me. The PLL was a N, which I don't know so I used a Y to do corners and then had a 3 cycle Allan for the edges and the OLLc was a case which I use 2 sunes for. Fast, but a lot of moves. It's too bad because my F2L was good.

I just timed myself on it and got 30.03, which isn't bad for how long the solve was.


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## Pedro (Apr 20, 2008)

Cross: y2 L' U' F L y R' F R (7)
y R' U' R (3)
d R' U' R (4)
y' R' U' R U y L' U L (7)
U2 R U2 R' U2 y L' U L (8)
F R U R' U' F' (6)
U R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' (14)

Total: 49

quite a good one


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## gogozerg (Apr 20, 2008)

First speed solve:

1st block: (z'x2) r'UFr2U' (x')
2nd block: R'U'RUrRUR2U2R'2rU'r
Alignement for case recognition: U'
Corners: L'U2LU2rU'L'U(x')
Edges: M2UM'UMUMU2MU'M2U2


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## Johannes91 (Apr 20, 2008)

Why are you so interested in lucky cases?

Scramble: U2 B2 R D L2 B' R' F D' B2 R2 F' D F2 D' L' R2 F' D2 L B F2 D' L' R2
Step 1: y' R' U r2 F' D
Step 2: y' R' F R2 F' U R'
Step 3: y L R U R2 F' R
Step 4: y' U L U' R2 U L' R' U2 R2 U' R' U R' U2
LL: z' L U2 L' U' L U' L' U


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## FU (Apr 20, 2008)

Cross: y' D L' F R' F2 D' (6)

1st pair: U' R' U2 R L' U L (7)
2nd pair: R U R' (3)
3rd pair: y2 U2 R U R' U2 R U R' (8)
4th pair: U' L' U L U' L' U' L (8)

OLL: (U) F R U' R' U' R U R' F' (10)

PLL: y R' U R' U' x2 y' R' U R' U' (l R) U' R' U R U (14)

Total move count: 56

Counted (l R) as one move for the same reason as Dene, I do it more like R2 x' with the cube rotation done together with the R2. And the y2 for the 3rd pair sucked. I couldn't find a pair while doing the 2nd so had to do it. Would have been a bad solve if I had done it physically.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 20, 2008)

i've not yet tried all the scrambles, but thanx for all the imput. it's really cool to see that everybody solves it interely different, even though almost all the solves are with fridrich.

@johannes: i'm interested to see all the different possebilities on one solve, and learn from it. mostly learn from the cross and f2l.
and i wander if everey scramble can get a lucky case. i recontructed your solve (very strange for me, petrus?) and your oll was some sort of sune right? but than you had a PLL skip, correct?


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## Jacco (Apr 20, 2008)

Cross (on top): x2 y' U R' F' U2 R U x2 (6)

F2l 1: R U R' U' L' U' L R' U' R (10)
F2l 2: L U L' (3)
F2l 3: L' U L R U R' (6)
F2l 4: y2 R' U' R U2 [edge control: y R U R'] F' U F (10)

OLL: y' R2' D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' (9)
PLL: y' L' U' L y' R2' u R' U R U' R u' R2 (12)
U2
Cross: 6
F2l: 29
LL: 21
Total: 56
Yes I know I'm slow and I should learn all Oll's =P


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## Kristoffer (Apr 20, 2008)

Solve:

Cross: y F' U' R' F D' L' u' L (8)
1st pair: U' F R' U R F' (6)
2nd pair: y R' U R U' R' U' R (7)
3rd pair: U L' U2 L U L' U' L (8)
4th pair: y' R U' R U R' U' R (7)
F2L+ Cross = 36..:|
OLL:------
PLL:-----
LL= ----

Total=----


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## Johannes91 (Apr 20, 2008)

martijn_cube said:


> it's really cool to see that everybody solves it interely different, even though almost all the solves are with fridrich.


Have you seen Stefan's F2L study? Many people solved the same scrambles and wrote down their solutions. You might find it interesting.



martijn_cube said:


> @johannes:


This isn't Lojban.



martijn_cube said:


> and i wander if everey scramble can get a lucky case.


I'm not sure what you mean. In theory, of course it's possible.



martijn_cube said:


> i recontructed your solve (very strange for me, petrus?) and your oll was some sort of sune right? but than you had a PLL skip, correct?


Petrus, yes. The LL was an Anti-Sune, yes. I know enough algs so that 1-look LL isn't lucky for me (using scc's definition), though.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 20, 2008)

Johannes91 said:


> Have you seen Stefan's F2L study? Many people solved the same scrambles and wrote down their solutions. You might find it interesting.


yeah i saw the topic, but i haven't red it yet. going to do right now 



martijn_cube said:


> @johannes:





> This isn't Lojban.


what do you mean with this? it just means 'a reaction to your post, just without the quote.



martijn_cube said:


> and i wander if everey scramble can get a lucky case.





> I'm not sure what you mean. In theory, of course it's possible.


just interested to see how many people will get a lucky case on a scramble, just with solving the cross and f2l different. it's not very important, because it wont't really bennefit you, because you will never no you get one , but more for fun then.



martijn_cube said:


> i recontructed your solve (very strange for me, petrus?) and your oll was some sort of sune right? but than you had a PLL skip, correct?





> Petrus, yes. The LL was an Anti-Sune, yes. I know enough algs so that 1-look LL isn't lucky for me (using scc's definition), though.


when i reconstuct your petrus solve it looks somewhat like solving an optimal solution for a scramble. well that's maybe because i don't really understand petrus.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 20, 2008)

@dene: you solve it with cross on red. that's really impossible for me, lol. it's very hard to make any pairs  but still nice solve if you can use it this way.



Rpotts said:


> Cross: R' B' R' y' U' R' F' R (7)
> 
> F2L 1: R U2 R' U2 R U R' (7)
> F2L 2: y2 U R' U2 R2' U R' (6)
> ...



i can't seem to get this one working. 
U:yellow
F:red
cross on white? it goes wrong with the cross. the green one isn't in the cross. and if i continue no pair is getting formed.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 20, 2008)

gogozerg said:


> First speed solve:
> 
> 1st block: (z'x2) r'UFr2U' (x')
> 2nd block: R'U'RUrRUR2U2R'2rU'r
> ...



this is also very cool to solve. i tried roux a couple times, but find it a bit difficult. but it's fun to do a full roux solve.




FU said:


> Cross: y' D L' F R' F2 D' (6)
> 
> 1st pair: U' R' U2 R L' U L (7)
> 2nd pair: R U R' (3)
> ...



this could also be a possibility for your third and fourth pair. but it wouldn't give you that much advantage because of the y turns in your 4th pair.
3rd: LU2U LUL'
4th: y'LU2L'U y R'U'R


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## Lofty (Apr 20, 2008)

Yes, Johannes uses Petrus! Very nice movecount on that solve too. He knows like 24785346 algs so it may not have been lucky it was skipped especially since he did it on the left hand.
And yes again every scramble can become lucky if you do the F2L right.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 20, 2008)

Lofty said:


> Yes, Johannes uses Petrus! Very nice movecount on that solve too. He knows like 24785346 algs so it may not have been lucky it was skipped especially since he did it on the left hand.
> And yes again every scramble can become lucky if you do the F2L right.



wow that's alot of algs. lol. but it is indeed nice if you no algs to do a 1LL.
how would you solve it with OH?
and for the lucky cases, to bad you don't know your solving it 'right'.

and i looked at the f2l study topics of stefan, and i see alot of the same ideas. everyone solves the cross +f2l different. i will examen, the solutions from the f2l study more closely. i think i can learn alot from it.


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## hait2 (Apr 20, 2008)

z y2 F' R' u r' U L2 x u'	7(7)
y' R' U2 R y' L' U2 L 6(13)
y2 U L' U2 L d R' U' R 8(21)
y' R U' R2 U' R 5(26)
U R U2 R' U F' L' U' L F	10(36)

total cross+f2l+edges OLL = 36

U' R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' 10(46)
y2 R' U' R y R2 u R' U R U' R u R2 12(58)

I'm really terrible though. I solved it first normally then went through the scramble slowly to figure out what I did. Waaaaay too many cube rotations =/

edit: i'd imagine it would be better if you said the scramble colors with respect to your cross color. i mean i solve a blue cross, so i had to do z y2 at first and then the rest of the solve is totally diff. IMO just say "scramble with your cross color on bottom"


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## martijn_cube (Apr 20, 2008)

hait2 said:


> i'd imagine it would be better if you said the scramble colors with respect to your cross color. i mean i solve a blue cross, so i had to do z y2 at first and then the rest of the solve is totally diff. IMO just say "scramble with your cross color on bottom"



edit: yeah that had been better. i forgot that not everybody solves it with cross on white. but scramble with cross color on bottom is easiest. i will edit it in the start post. tnx


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## Lt-UnReaL (Apr 20, 2008)

Dene said:


> Lt-UnReal: Would you really solve like that at speed? That is amazing, or else just extremely lucky!


The extended cross was lucky, but besides that is how I normally solve



martijn_cube said:


> can you also see it when speedsolving?


Yep, that was my speedsolve, got a really nice 13.79 sec on it, too.


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## pete (Apr 20, 2008)

- cross on left
- not using Fridrich pairs

Cross + Edge : (z x') L U' (x) U' F2 L2 B L (7)
Corner + Edge : U' R' U2 R U' (5)
Corner : L' R' U' R U (5)
Edge : (x') R U R' U' (4)
OLLe (Heise) : (x) L2 U' R U F R' F' (7)
Finish F2L : U R' U' L' U R U' (7)
PLLe : R2 U' R2 U R U' R U (8)
OLLc : lucky skip (0)
PLL : (x2 y') R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R (9)

Total 52 moves 
(F2L + LL cross : 35 moves)


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## Lucas Garron (Apr 21, 2008)

U2 B2 R D L2 B' R' F D' B2 R2 F' D F2 D' L' R2 F' D2 L B F2 D' L' R2 

Cross: UL'U2 y' RF2 z2 D'
Slot 1: L'ULURUR'
Slot 2: dRU'R'URU'R'
Slot 3: y'L'U2LU'yLUL'
ELS: L'U2L
CLS: y'U' RUR'URU'R'U2RUR'
PLL: ULU2'L'U2LF'L'U'LUrUL2'

Uh, a typical bad solve...


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## mrbiggs (Apr 21, 2008)

Cross: R' U' B' R F' L F

F2L: U' d' L' U L U R U' R' U F' U F y2 R U R' U' d' L' U L d L' U2 L U' F U F'

eOLL: U R' U' F' U F U' F' U F R U' (this isn't quite how I perform this, I do most of a y' during the Fs so it's all Us and Rs)

cOLL: R U R' U R U2 R' U' R U R' U R U2 R' U2

PLL: U' R' U R U' R2 y' R' U' R U B R B' R' B2

overall a weird combination of Leyan Lo's beginner guide and Macky's Fridrich. The U2 U' is a waste, but it's a habit I'm in with this particular PLL that I haven't been able to drop, same thing with the too-long eOll. Also, my next step is to learn the cOLLs so I don't have to do two or three Sunes.

I speedsolved this trying to get the same F2l but I messed up somewhere so I had a different solution. In any case, the other solution was about the same length and I got 27 seconds, which is not great for me but not bad either. I'll chalk the extra seconds up to worrying about copying the above .

Move count: 81 pretty bad, largely due to my eOLL, which isn't even a good algorithm, and I think that's my longest PLL. It wasn't particularly slow, though.


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## dChan (Apr 23, 2008)

Cross: y F' U' R' F L' B L (7 moves)
1st Slot: U L' U2 L (4 moves)
2nd Slot: U' y L' U L (4 moves)
3rd Slot: U2 R U2 R' U y L' U' L (8 moves)
4th Slot: R U R' U' R U R' (7 moves)
OLL: R' F R F' y U' L' U L (8 moves)
PLL: U' y R' U2 R U R' U2 L U' R U L' (12 moves) 
Total: 50 moves

Completely standard Fridrich style. Nothing special I believe.

EDIT: Just for some fun, here are facts about my solve: I thought the cross was going to be over 8 moves for some reason. When I visualized it during inspection it felt like 9 moves. Also, there were four cube rotations and all were mainly so I could do a specific sequence on the R or L face as opposed to on the F face. Finally, I didn't use any special tricks at all during the solve. It was pure Fridrich. 

I don't know if those little facts help at all, but yeah, that's how I solved it.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 23, 2008)

thanks dchan. i'm going to try your solve soon. and also the other solves in this paige. i'm curious how the mgls solve works.

edit: did your solve dchan. that's how i would solve it too if i did your cross. only with the OLL i would use the first part of the Y-PLL. that's without a cube turn. so maybe faster? but yours is pretty short(OLL). but nice solve.

edit2: nice solve lucas. is it with mgls(i assume that this was a mgls solve) alway's that with putting in the last f2l corner that you solve the entire OLL? so last corner+OLL is then 1 step, is that correct? that would be nice. and why is it a bad solve for you?

edit3:mrbiggs: i like your f2l with the d moves. i have to try to use that too. but with your OLL, a nice alg for the H-OLL you had: (RUR'U')(M’URU')r'. and for your second OLL you had i also have a easy one: f(RUR'U')f' F(RUR'U')F'. maybe it helps.

edit4-pete: strange solve for me , but fun to do.


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## dChan (Apr 23, 2008)

The first part of the Y-permutation? Wouldn't that require doing R U R' U' R' F R F' twice? Is this just because you do not know full OLL? Oh wait... I think I understand what you are saying. Can you type up the moves though so I can see what you mean?

MGLS is 3 pairs of F2L and with the final slot you insert the FR edge and orient LL edges and then you insert the DR corner and orient the LL corners. 

Oh yeah, it seems I have the shortest solution. Anyone mind putting up a move count of your solve? I counted Mrbiggs and Lucas's solves and they ended up over 50. Possibly why Lucas did not like his solve, because it was relatively long compared to the difficulty factor of the scramble(which is easy)?

EDIT: Nevermind, some people have 49s...

EDIT: Lucas, do you always do your cross on top?


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## martijn_cube (Apr 23, 2008)

i don't know full oll but for the oll you had i use: F(RU'R'U'RUR')F'
the alg you typed is the second part. you can use that for the T with two yellow infront. but i think your already using that one.


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## dChan (Apr 23, 2008)

Okay, I see what you are saying. Yeah, I use full OLL so I already use that for the T. 

I tried pete's solve and I found it very odd as well. I couldn't get it to work at first because I was trying to figure out what he was doing during each step. 

We should have a Nielsson solution to this, lol. I would like to see that.


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## hdskull (Apr 24, 2008)

Solve: 15.26s good.

Cross: L' R' U' B' R U' L2 (7)
1: U' L' U L U y' R' U R (15)
2: L U L' U L U' L' (22)
3: U' L' U2 L y' R' U' R (29)
4: U R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' (41)
OLL: U R U2 R' U' R U' R' (49)
PLL: U' R' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R2 (51)


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## martijn_cube (Apr 24, 2008)

nice solve. nice OLL and PLL. even though everybody solves it differently almost all the solve are around 50 moves.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 24, 2008)

these are all the crosses that have been used till now.

i've selected only the ones with cross in D. (same as i use)
Scramble with your cross in D (can use your own cross color)
F=Red
U=Yellow
D=White
U2 B2 R D L2 B’ R’ F D’ B2 R2 F’ D F2 D’ L’ R2 F’ D2 L B F2 D’ L’ R2
Cross: 
1)	D B’ L F’ L2 D’ 
2)	D L2 B' L' F' u'
3)	y2 L' U' F’ L y R' F R
4)	y' D L' F R' F2 D'
5)	y’ D L’ F’ D2 L D 
6)	y F' U' R' F D L' u' L
7)	R' U' B' R F' L F
8)	y F' U' R' F L' B L (same as 7, but then with y)
9)	L' R' U' B' R U' L2

i think the f2l with fridrich solvers is most of the time the same, but the cross has many possibilities.


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## Dene (Apr 24, 2008)

The problem with this is, everyone is going to do white on D. If you aren't going to choose white you are probably colour neutral (like myself) in which case you choose the best colour _after_ the scramble.


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## David (Apr 25, 2008)

Cross on left (white)
F - Blue
D' M' U' F' l' r' U R' U (cross 9) crappy but sets up F2L pair 1

F2L 
Pair 1 - R U R U' x' U R U' (17 counting the x)
Pair 2 - l U R U' R' U R U' (25)
Pair 3 - l' U R2 U' R2 U R' U' (33)
Pair 4 - R U' R U l' U R' U' (41)

z (42 again if you count rotations)

OLL - U' l d R d' F l' U' R U' R' (53) 
PLL - d' l' U R'D2 U' R' D2 R2 (62)

I need to find better OLL's 
total 62 moves counting rotations and 60 if you don't. Not bad for Fridrich.


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## CanadianPires (Apr 25, 2008)

Thinking of learning Doug Li's method better/fully, otherwise i just solve fridrich w/ 3LLL. Right now im just following the visual steps of his method but probably am not doing it correctly with his algs..

2x2x3 minus edge: D' F' R B D' U B2 D' y M2 U M2 L F' L2 R B' L (17)
Last edge: U' y R' F R (4) 
3rd pair: U y' R U' R' U R U' R' (8)
4th pair: y R U' R' U' R U' R' U F' U' F (11)
DF edge + OLLe: y2 U M' U M (4)
OLLc: U R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' (10)
PLL: U2 y x' R U' R' D R U R' u2 R' U R D R' U' R (16)

Total = 70 which is lame, but im sure he combines steps 2, 3 & 4 all together in his full method sorta like petrus. And my 2x2x3 minus edge could improve a lot. Im still searching for a full outline of his method just cus im interested and might switch if i like..


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## joey (Apr 25, 2008)

Dene said:


> The problem with this is, everyone is going to do white on D.


Oi! That's not true! I do green


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## Paiev (Apr 25, 2008)

y D R' B' D2 R D [6]
y' U' L' U L R U R' [7]
L' U2 L U y R U R' [7]
U2 R' U R U2 y R U R' [8]
U' y R U R' [4]

F2L move count: 32

F U R U' R' F' [6]
l' U' L' U R U' L U x' [8]
U' R' U2 R U2' R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 U2 [15]

Total: 61


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## martijn_cube (Apr 25, 2008)

nice solve paiev. For your OLL(the second one) i use this alg:F'(rUR'U')r'FR. maybe you like it. you have to turn the shape so that you have one yellow in front and one left.


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## dChan (Apr 25, 2008)

@Dene: I solve the green/blue cross. I picked up the habit from the Beginner Solution Hints Guide that comes with the cube(they tell you to solve the green cross). Now I'm using full Fridrich with green/blue cross, lol. I like my cross color(s) though.

I assume everyone who uses full Fridrich should probably get around 50 moves on this scramble. It really isn't too complicated. I didn't even have to do any LL orientation control with the last slot or any block-building.

@CanadianPires: I think I've seen Doug Li's F2L method. I actually have tried several different F2L methods(Petrus, Roux, Salvia, etc. even corners-first solving) and I ended up sticking with Fridrich + various F2L tricks. I suggest you do the same... or learn the Nielsson method.


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## CanadianPires (Apr 25, 2008)

@dChan: you remember where you saw it or anything? I have also "shopped around" for an F2L and I also will probably stick with Fridrich F2L and add on some tricks to it, but I'm curious to see how all the F2L techniques work, and I think Doug Li's will probably be the last one I check out before I fully commit to just stick w/ Fridrich.


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## dChan (Apr 25, 2008)

Ugh. I think I found it through a link on Speedcubing.com's Links page. I am pretty sure I saw it there.

EDIT: I believe his site ahs been destroyed by nefarious aliens. Sorry.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 25, 2008)

what do you call 'f2l tricks' dchan?


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## dChan (Apr 26, 2008)

@martijn_cube: Extended cross/ block-building, empty slot usage, and a little bit of LL orientation control. It is basically Macky-style F2L although I found out about extended cross of Chris Hardwick's page, learned to use block-building from Petrus, figured out empty-slot usage from Joel's guide to Keyhole F2L(it is a great jumping off point for learning empty slotting), and LL orientation control from a stint with ZBF2L. Of course I learned some of the more advanced LL control techniques from Macky's site so he does deserve credit.

There are probably more tricks that I don't know of but that's what I use. Check out Macky's site and Chris Hardwick's page for some good guides on this kind of stuff.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 26, 2008)

ok thanks. i see that i still can learn alot more


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## Dirk BerGuRK (Apr 26, 2008)

U2 B2 R D L2 B’ R’ F D’ B2 R2 F’ D F2 D’ L’ R2 F’ D2 L B F2 D’ L’ R2 

1) (u) R2 F U' r2 F (r') U2 r U' (r)
2) r' U' r' U' R' U' (R' M') U2 (r2 R) U' R
3) U' L' U2 L U L' U L2 U' R' U L' U' R
4) U M' U' M U' M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M

stm=47


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## martijn_cube (Apr 27, 2008)

hoe do you do that solve? if i do all the moves i end up with a scambled cube? what do you do with the moves between the ()?


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## Dirk BerGuRK (Apr 27, 2008)

The way I posted that is kind of confusing. (r), (u), and (f) notation is another way to write x, y, and z notation. Maybe this is easier...

1) y R2 F U' r2 F x' U2 r U' x
2) r' U' r' U' R' U' R' M' U2 r2 R U' R
3) U' L' U2 L U L' U L2 U' R' U L' U' R
4) U M' U' M U' M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M

I hope that is correct. I always get confused when using x, y, and z notation. The other parentheses meant that those moves were performed simultaneously.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 27, 2008)

wow nice solve. roux method. and if you know what (r) means it is easier than x. so now i know .


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## *LukeMayn* (Apr 27, 2008)

mine would be
cross: R' D' y2 F R2' U' F2 R (X-cross) (8)
F2L
2. d R U2 R' U' L U L' U L' U' L (11)
3. U' L' U L y' R' U' R U' F' U F (11)
4.U R' U2 R U2 y R U2 R' U R U' R' (12)
OLL:y R U2 R2 U' R U' R' U2 F R F' (11)
PLL: U l' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 (10)
I need to get some alg F2L for joint pairs but incorectly joint. I didn't count whole cube rotations as a move.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 27, 2008)

could you review your cross? i can't seem to get i to work.


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## Erik (Apr 27, 2008)

U2 B2 R D L2 B’ R’ F D’ B2 R2 F’ D F2 D’ L’ R2 F’ D2 L B F2 D’ L’ R2 
cross:
LuL'R' y R'u' (6)
F2L: 
1. u'RUR'DU' (6) (yes I know it would cancel one move doing u2 but I wouldn't do it like that)
2/3. L'ULRUR'U2L'UL (10)
4. y' L'U2LU'L'UL (7)
LL: RU2R2U'FRDR2D'F'R'UR (13)
total: 42 (time: 9.03)
sorry about the 1 look LL and the semi-multislotter it's not very usual, but this was a nice one


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## martijn_cube (Apr 27, 2008)

wow very nice solve erik. i like your 'u' using. like your first cross piece and your first f2l pair. how many 1LL algs do you use? also very nice time


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## Erik (Apr 27, 2008)

Haha normally I hate u moves but lately I've been using them more. I don't know many 1 LLL algs, just trivial ones like flipping some stuff only or a J perm with 2 flipped edges etc, and about 75% of ELL


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## martijn_cube (Apr 27, 2008)

what is more usefull to learn, ELL or CLL?


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## Swordsman Kirby (Apr 27, 2008)

Learn both!

x2y' L2 D' F L D' 
y F2 U' L' U L2 F' L'
y U L' U L F' L'
y' R U2 R' U' R U' R U2 R' U' R
R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R'
y' U-perm U2

(47), I'm no Johannes in fast linear solving.


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## Cerberus (Apr 27, 2008)

Cross: D B’ L F’ L2 D’ (6) (same^^)
f2l:
#1: U2 L2 F' L2' F (5)
#2: y U' R U R' U2 R U R' (8)
#3: D2 R' U' R D2 (5) (MUCH luck that I saw it)
#4: y' U' R U' R' U' F' R F (8)
32 moves so far
OLL: U' R U R' U R U2 R' (8)
PLL: y2 R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 U' (14)
so i end up with 54

alternate if I would not have seen the keyhole:
Cross: D B’ L F’ L2 D’ (6) (same^^)
f2l:
#1: U2 L2 F' L2' F (5)
#2: y U' R U R' U2 R U R' (8)
#3: R' U2 L' U' L U2 L' U L (9) (just all intuitive :-S)
#4: U' R' U' R U2 R U' R (8)
36 moves
OLL: U F U R U' R' F' + U R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' (17) (2-look)
PLL: y R2 u' R U' R U R' u R2 y R U' R (12)

so I got 65 in total


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## martijn_cube (Apr 27, 2008)

Cerberus said:


> Cross: D B’ L F’ L2 D’ (6) (same^^)
> f2l:
> #1: U2 L2 F' L2' F (5)
> #2: y U' R U R' U2 R U R' (8)
> ...



nice solve. i like your first and 3rd pair. totally different then my usual. good stuff to learn from. that 3rd pair, never new to use that emty slot like that, but it can be very usefull.





Swordsman Kirby said:


> Learn both!
> 
> x2y' L2 D' F L D'
> y F2 U' L' U L2 F' L'
> ...



from the highlighted part your solve goes wrong i think. i have 2 'f2l' pairs in, but when i do that move i loose one. but i can't really find the good way to do it.


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## Sin-H (Apr 29, 2008)

U2 B2 R D L2 B’ R’ F D’ B2 R2 F’ D F2 D’ L’ R2 F’ D2 L B F2 D’ L’ R2 

Cross: y D R' B L' B2 D' (6)
1st/2nd pair: y R' U2 R y U' L' U L R U R' (10)
3rd pair: D' R' U' R D (5)
4th pair: y R U' R' U R U R' (7)
OLL: y' R U R' U' R U' R' F' U' F R U R' (13)
PLL: U' L' U2 L U L' U2 R U' L U R' (12)

so it would be 53 moves...


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## martijn_cube (Apr 29, 2008)

nice solve. nice 1st/2nd  and again i see this way of solving the third pair, i have to remember that one. ow and your PLL alg insn't right.


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## joshuali (Apr 30, 2008)

Scramble: U2 B2 R D L2 B’ R’ F D’ B2 R2 F’ D F2 D’ L’ R2 F’ D2 L B F2 D’ L’ R2 
cross: u R' y R B' R2 D' (6)
1st pair: U2 R U' R2 U R (6)
2nd pair: u L' U L u' (5)
3rd pair: U R U R' (4)
4th pair: y' L' U L y' U2 R U R' (7)

f2L: 28

OLL: U R' U' y' R' U R B (7)

lol and i just realised its Pll skip hahaha

whole solve move count = 28 + 7 = 35


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## rjohnson_8ball (Apr 30, 2008)

I just looked at this post for the first time. I am surprised no one saw the typo in post #1:
OLL: (RU2)(R2’FRF)(RU2R) (9) 
should be
OLL: (RU2)(R2’FRF')(RU2R) (9)


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## martijn_cube (Apr 30, 2008)

mmm yeah that should work alot better  thanks


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## Swordsman Kirby (Apr 30, 2008)

martijn_cube said:


> Swordsman Kirby said:
> 
> 
> > Learn both!
> ...



Hrm, probably is an L2 instead of L. By the way, I don't use pairs in this solution.


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## martijn_cube (Apr 30, 2008)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> x2y' L2 D' F L D'
> y F2 U' L' U L2 F' L'
> y U L' U *L2 *F' L'
> y' R U2 R' U' R U' R U2 R' U' R
> ...



yes the L2 works. is this a petrus solve?




joshuali said:


> Scramble: U2 B2 R D L2 B’ R’ F D’ B2 R2 F’ D F2 D’ L’ R2 F’ D2 L B F2 D’ L’ R2
> cross: u R' y R B' R2 D' (6)
> 1st pair: U2 R U' R2 U R (6)
> 2nd pair: u L' U L u' (5)
> ...


nice 2nd pair solving. and a nice pll skip . do you always use that alg for your OLL? i use B'(U'R'UR)B. i tried my OLL alg, and that gives me an PLL skip too. only need a U turn as 'PLL'.
edit:  i now see that your alg is actually the same as mine, only performed a bit different


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## coopersacatfilms (May 3, 2008)

Cross F' U' R' F L' B L
F2L 1: U2 L' U L
F2L 2: U' R U' R' U2 R' U R 
F2L 3: U' R U' R' U' y L' U L
F2L 4:y R U R' U' R U R' 
OLL: F R U R' U' F'
PLL: U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L


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## malcolm (May 3, 2008)

cross x2 U F' L B' L2 U' x2 (6)
pair 1 U2 L U' L2 U L (6)
pair 2 D y' L' U L D' (5)
pair 3 U y' R U R' (4)
pair 4 y R' U R U2 y R U R' (7)
OLL f' L' U' L U f (6)
PLL U (1)
35 moves


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## martijn_cube (May 3, 2008)

coopersacatfilms said:


> Cross *y* F' U' R' F L' B L
> F2L 1: U2 L' U L
> F2L 2: U' R U' R' U2 R' U R
> F2L 3: U' R U' R' U' y L' U L
> ...



nice solve, but i think these moves need to be added.




malcolm said:


> cross *x2* U F' L B' L2 U' *x2* (6)
> pair 1 U2 L U' L2 U L (6)
> pair 2 D y' L' U L D' (5)
> pair 3 U y' R U R' (4)
> ...



good solve malcolm. only your y2 from your cross needs to be x2. and another PLL skip, nice. it's the same OLL as the solve of joshuali. i think it's also almost the same solve.


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## Johannes91 (May 3, 2008)

martijn_cube said:


> it's the same OLL as the solve of joshuali. i think it's also almost the same solve.


Yeah, there's only a very small difference in LL. Both solves in basic UDFBRL notation:

D B' L F' L2 U2 D' L U' L2 U L D B' U B U D' L U L' F' U F U2 R U R' U R' U' F' U F R
D B' L F' L2 U2 D' L U' L2 U L D B' U B U D' L U L' F' U F U2 R U R' B' U' R' U R B U


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## martijn_cube (May 3, 2008)

mm cool. bit of difference, same result. funny to see that even when they do the same solve they perform it differently.


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## malcolm (May 4, 2008)

Yeah, I saw his after mine, and thought hey, thats the same =X only difference is he did the U for PLL before OLL, and I did it afterwards. Fixed the mistake, thankyou. Can we have another scramble? I like this stuff


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## puzzleplus (May 4, 2008)

first make a cross then put the corners on the right place then do the second layer then 3rd layer then 4th-5th layer...... that's what i will do so far


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## *LukeMayn* (May 4, 2008)

puzzleplus said:


> first make a cross then put the corners on the right place then do the second layer then 3rd layer then 4th-5th layer...... that's what i will do so far



What 4th and 5th layer???? and anyway you're meant to explain what moves you do, also BTW matijn_cube I think I may of forgot to put z,x or y in my cross. >.< oh well.


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## martijn_cube (May 4, 2008)

*LukeMayn* said:


> also BTW matijn_cube I think I may of forgot to put z,x or y in my cross. >.< oh well.



do you know wich one? i like to do your solve.




malcolm said:


> Yeah, I saw his after mine, and thought hey, thats the same =X only difference is he did the U for PLL before OLL, and I did it afterwards. Fixed the mistake, thankyou. Can we have another scramble? I like this stuff



i don't know if i should post a new scramble in this topic or make a new topic.


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## martijn_cube (May 4, 2008)

******ok second scramble for the ones who like to do another one******
scramble with your cross color on bottom

this is how i solved it. bit lucky with the cross and pairs.

U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F

Cross: y2 B (U F D’ L D’ F) (7)
1st:	y’ L’ U L (3)
2nd:	RUR’y U’ R U’ R’ (7)
3rd:	U’ L’ U’ L y RU’R’ (7)
4th:	U L U L’ U L U’ L’ (8)

F2L: 32

OLL: y’ F’ r U R’ U’ r’ F R (8)
PLL: y M2U’ M’U2M2U2M’ UM2	(9)
Total: 49

Did the B move to save the pair(didn’t really know if it would help, but I tried.) And it gave me a second pair solved to. So that saved some moves.
And I got an OLL I new, that saved some moves too.


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## popstar_dave (May 4, 2008)

martijn_cube said:


> ******ok second scramble for the ones who like to do another one******
> 
> U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F



OK, this is my solve. I haven't tried to optimise it, or look up algs where I didn't know them. This is just how I'd solve the cube if someone handed me one in the state described above.

Cross: D' L2 R D' F

Corner/Edge Pairs:
U2 B' U B
R U' R' B U B'
U2 R U2 R' F' U2 F
U L' U' L U F U F'
Giving a F2L (HTM) move count of 30. Not my best, but certainly not my worst. (My actual solve would probably have some rotations in there, but I wrote it out like that for simplicity.)

OLL:
R U B U' B' R' y' R' F' L F R F' L' F
As you can see, I use a 2LOLL, in this case it was 14 moves.

PLL:
U2 L U2 L' U' L U2 R' U L' U' R
Yay, J-Perm - my favorite. 12 moves there.

So that's a 56 move solve there. Not too bad. I'm usually pretty happy with anything below 60 moves, considering that I only know the cross OLLs, and about half the PLLs.


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## watermelon (May 4, 2008)

martijn_cube said:


> PLL: y M2U’ M’U2M2U2M’ UM2	(9)
> Total: 49


If we're counting in HTM, that PLL is 14 moves, bringing your total up to 54 moves.


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## martijn_cube (May 4, 2008)

watermelon said:


> martijn_cube said:
> 
> 
> > PLL: y M2U’ M’U2M2U2M’ UM2	(9)
> ...



yeah i useally count U2 and M2 as one move. so that would be STM right? i don't really know what the 'real' movecount is. stm or Htm. i mean the one that is used for counting solves.


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## Swordsman Kirby (May 4, 2008)

U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F

D2 R d L U2 L
y2 z U2 R' y' R U2 B R2' U' R L U' L'
x'y' R' U R U' R2 U R U' R U2 R' U' R U R'

(33) 

I would've used 58 moves including the LL, but that's ugly enough.


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## Lt-UnReaL (May 4, 2008)

U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F

Cross: B D' R L2 u'
Slot 1: U2 y' L U L'
Slot 2: d' L' U L
Slot 3: U2 L U L' U L U' L'
Slot 4: U2 y' R' U2 R U' R' U R

F2L move count: 28

OLL: U' R' U' R' F R F' U R
PLL: U'

Total: 38

I got 13.98 on this scramble.


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## martijn_cube (May 4, 2008)

popstar_dave said:


> martijn_cube said:
> 
> 
> > ******ok second scramble for the ones who like to do another one******
> ...



can't really get your OLL to work..




Swordsman Kirby said:


> U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F
> 
> D2 R d L U2 L
> y2 z U2 R' y' R U2 B R2' U' R L U' L'
> ...



what is normally your average move count then? 58 total isn't that bad right? i don't really know what method you use. some sort of petrus? after what you wrote down i have 2 'f2l' and 2 edges done.



Lt-UnReaL said:


> I got 13.98 on this scramble.



wow very good solve. does this actually count as an PLL skip? can't really call U' as a PLL right? but really nice f2l, can't get much better i think.


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## AvGalen (May 4, 2008)

I might have the weirdest solves in here, but this is just my "style". Keyhole is my main method, but I am mixing in some regular F2L. And I don't know OLL PLL so I use 4 look last layer, but I try to avoid OLL's I don't know. 
To summarize: 40 ("slow speedsolve"), 47 (slow speedsolve) and 51 ("Fridrich slow speedsolve")

Scramble1 (with cross color on bottom): U2 B2 R D L2 B’ R’ F D’ B2 R2 F’ D F2 D’ L’ R2 F’ D2 L B F2 D’ L’ R2
Using "optimal keyhole"
Cross (+ Edge 1) (5): L D F' B' L'
Corner 1 (+ Edge 2) (3): y' L' U2 L
Corner 2 (3): y L' U L
Edge 3 (3): R U R' 
Corner 3 (7): y R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2
Corner 4 + Edge 4 (4): y' D' L' U L
OLL (6): y R' U' F' U F R
PLL (9): y2 l' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2
"optimal keyhole means I go a bit slower and just do something in the F2L that solves something without breaking anything that is already done
This would have been a really nice solve for me

Scramble2 (with cross color on bottom): U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F
(how I would have solved it. It's a mixture between regular F2L (beginning), keyhole (middle part) and blindfolded (Last Layer))
Cross (5): B D' R L2 D'
1st pair (4): U2 R U R'
2nd pair (4): y' L F' L' F
3rd edge (3): y2 R U2 R' 
3rd corner (+ 4th edge) (5): y' D2 U2 L' U' L
Corner 4: (7): y R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2
Last Layer (19): z2 (R U R' U' R U R' U') D (U R U' R' U R U' R') U2 D

I also gave normal Fridrich a try:
Regular Fridrich
Cross (6): z2 y R' U F' U2 F' U'
1st pair (3): z2 y R U' R' 
2nd pair (4): y' L F' L' F
3rd pair (7): R U' R' U R U R'
4th pair (4): y' L F' L' F2
OLL (5): R U R' U' F' 
Corners PLL (10): U2 l' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2
Edge PLL (12): x' U R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2


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## Paiev (May 5, 2008)

U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F

Cross: U' F2 B D' R D' [6]
1st Pair: U R U R' U y R U R' [14]
2nd pair: R' U R U L' U' L [21]
3rd and 4th pairs: y2 E' F U F' E F U' F' [29]
OLL skip!
PLL: R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 U [43]

Too bad I didn't time this.


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## Dene (May 5, 2008)

For you Mr. van Galen:
(I'm assuming I have to use cross on D) Scramble 1:
Cross: (u) D R' (u r) R U' l2 (r') D'
First Pair: R' U2 R U' (u) L' U L
Second Pair: R U R'
Third Pair: (u') L' U2 L U' L' U' L
Fourth Pair: (u') U L' U L U' (u) L U L'
Nice OLL
A-perm

31 move F2L (+9+9, and maybe U adjustment)

Scramble 2:
Cross: D' L2 R (u) D' L
First Pair: U2 R' U R
Second Pair: (u') R U' R' (u) R U R'
Third Pair: U2 L' U L2 F' L' F
Fourht Pair: (u2) R U R' U' (u) L' U' L
11 move OLL
Z-perm (16)

29 move F2L + 27


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## malcolm (May 5, 2008)

2nd scramble
cross D' L2 R D' F (5)
1st pair L U' L' U2 y R U R' (7)
2nd pair y' D L' U2 L D' (5)
3rd pair R U R' F R' F' R (7)
4th pair and OLL U2 y R' U' R U R' U2 R2 U2 R' U' R U' R' U (15)
PLL M2 U' M U2 M' U' M2 (7)
46 total

Didn't see the pair already made the first time, because one of my tiles fell off... Here is how I would have solved it with that:
cross D' L2 R D' F (5)
1st pair y U2 R' U R (4)
2nd pair y' R U' R' y R U R' (6)
3rd pair y D' R' U2 R D (5)
4th pair y R' U2 R2 B' R' B (6)
OLL y f R U R' U' f' (6)
OLL part 2 y' R U2 R' U' R U' R' U (8)
PLL y x U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' R2 (10)

50 total, didn't know the OLL =(


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## martijn_cube (May 5, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> I might have the weirdest solves in here, but this is just my "style".
> 
> Scramble2 (with cross color on bottom): U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F
> (how I would have solved it. It's a mixture between regular F2L (beginning), keyhole (middle part) and blindfolded (Last Layer))
> ...



you're solves are indeed a bit strange  but if it works for you, then that doesn't really matter. it's fun to do it this way.
shouldn't there be a U2 before your last layer alg? if i do it this way i end up with another 'OLL' shape. and if i do the alg backwards i get the same as i had before the start of the last layer but then with a U2 added. 



Dene said:


> For you Mr. van Galen:
> (I'm assuming I have to use cross on D) Scramble 1:
> 31 move F2L (+9+9, and maybe U adjustment)
> 
> ...



again i had a bit of trouble understanding the (u) and (r) signs. if you had scrambled this with white on D, had you chosen a different cross color then?






Paiev said:


> U B2 L B2 R2 B2 R' D2 L' U' L' B L B D L2 U L2 B2 L B' R' F D2 F
> 
> Cross: U' F2 B D' R D' [6]
> 1st Pair: U R U R' U y R U R' [14]
> ...



very strange/cool way of solving the 3rd and 4th pair.



malcolm said:


> 2nd scramble
> cross D' L2 R D' F (5)
> 1st pair L U' L' U2 y R U R' (7)
> 2nd pair y' D L' U2 L D' (5)
> ...



can't seem to get you're 4th + OLL to work. can you try it again?


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## AvGalen (May 5, 2008)

Dene: I cannot get your first solve working. 
Marijn: the z2 should be x2, so Last Layer (19): *x2* (R U R' U' R U R' U') D (U R U' R' U R U' R') U2 D


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## martijn_cube (May 5, 2008)

AvGalen said:


> Dene: I cannot get your first solve working.
> Marijn: the z2 should be x2, so Last Layer (19): *x2* (R U R' U' R U R' U') D (U R U' R' U R U' R') U2 D




yes that's working alot better 


try it this way. i believe one of the (r) notations was wrong. it's a damn complicated cross. whats your time on that dene?
Cross: y DR' yx' R U' l2 x' D'
First Pair: R' U2 R U' y L' U L
Second Pair: RUR''
Third Pair:y'L' U2 L U' L' U' L
Fourth Pair: y' U L' U L U' y L U L'


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## Dene (May 5, 2008)

martijn_cube said:


> Dene said:
> 
> 
> > For you Mr. van Galen:
> ...



Well the lower case letters in brackets are cube rotations, and they are much easier to follow than x/y/z, or at least I think so.
I'm not sure what you mean by scrambling with white on D... I just scrambled it as I always do (white on U, green on F) then solved with cross on D straight from the scramble. I could have scrambled with any colour on D, it wouldn't matter.



AvGalen said:


> Dene: I cannot get your first solve working.


Damn it! Sorry, the (r) rotation in the cross should have been (r')

Cross: (u) D R' (u *r'*) R U' l2 (r') D'
First Pair: R' U2 R U' (u) L' U L
Second Pair: R U R'
Third Pair: (u') L' U2 L U' L' U' L
Fourth Pair: (u') U L' U L U' (u) L U L'
Nice OLL
A-perm


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## malcolm (May 6, 2008)

martijn_cube said:


> malcolm said:
> 
> 
> > 2nd scramble
> ...


I just tried it, seems to work fine for me.


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## martijn_cube (May 6, 2008)

yes it works out fine now , did something wrong i guess. sorry.


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