# EOline



## Spooter (Mar 11, 2009)

I am having some trouble finding help for the EOline. I understand the concept and I can implement that concept, but I'm having trouble finding the edges that are wrong, and actually solving those bad edges in a short number of moves.

Currently I use these algorithms:

2 opposite edges: M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2

4 top edges: (M' U)*4 (M U)*4

The example solve on the main page for ZZ doesn't help much with the EOline part as it only uses 4 moves to solve the 4 edges. 

If someone can give me a website or just some information that can help me with the concept of finding the edges as well as solving that would be great. Thanks

Also I am not new to speed cubing... Average=25.46 seconds Best = 20.89 seconds.


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## qqwref (Mar 11, 2009)

Ugh, your algorithms are about 10 moves longer than they should be. The point of EOline is that an edge is oriented if you can solve it with only U, L, R, and D moves, so if you do F you will flip the four edges on F (and B will flip the four edges on B). That's what you should be using to orient the edges. Recognize orientation in the same way people do with pre-orient BLD methods.


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## Spooter (Mar 11, 2009)

Ok, That helps but when I do Either a F or B it will also make all the good pieces in those faces bad. Must I move all the bad edges to the front or back and then rotate that face?


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## Asheboy (Mar 11, 2009)

Yes. 

Although, you will run into the problem where you have two mis-orientated. There I place the two bad edges in UF and UR and then do F R' F'.


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## Spooter (Mar 11, 2009)

OHHHH so kinda like solving for the mis-oriented edges in petrus method?


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## Asheboy (Mar 11, 2009)

Yeah, I was gonna say that put I didn't know if you had used Petrus before


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## Spooter (Mar 11, 2009)

I found this picture from another thread that just helped me out a lot.


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## Cride5 (Mar 12, 2009)

Spooter said:


> ...but I'm having trouble finding the edges that are wrong




Look at your U/D faces if you see:

 U/D colour its good
 L/R colour its bad
 F/B colour means you need to look to the side of the edge
 U/D on the side is bad
 L/R on the side is good

Then look at the mid-slice edges on the L/R faces if you see:

 U/D colour its bad
 L/R colour its good
 F/B colour means you need to look round the side (F/B faces in this case)
 U/D on the side is good
 L/R on the side is bad


I like this method of detecting bad edges, because U/D colours and R/L colours instantly tell me if its good or bad. Every time theres an F/B colour I know to check the side to determine good/bad.


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## Spooter (Mar 12, 2009)

Awesome explanation dude, thank you.


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## Tricked (Mar 12, 2009)

When guides say that for a edge to be oriented correctly it must be able to be put into its correct spot with any non 1/4 F/B turns, does that mean it also has to be turned correctly (ie. green face has the orange side of the edge, orange side has the green side of the edge would be incorrectly turned).

I also dont understand what Asheboy said, if i have 2 incorrectly oriented edges and i put them into UF and UR positions and then do F R' F' it doesnt orient the edges at all.

I've never done Petrus, just Fridrich with around 30 sec average so if there is a petrus page that would help this make sense could someone find me it?

Also the main ZZ page doesnt have any examples of EOLine building except for 1 random solve. I cant find any sites for EOLine with demonstrations that aren't in Polish. I have the feeling that if i saw a vid or a applet I would understand EOLine concept better.


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## Asheboy (Mar 12, 2009)

What you said was correct.

With what I said, it doesn't put them in the correct place, just flips them correctly, for orientation they don't have to be in the right place.


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## Matthew (Mar 12, 2009)

Hello

I've decided to upload and translate for you a EOLine solver made by ZZ which is actually available at ZZ's site (http://speedcubing.com.pl/nooks_zz.htm#zzspeed_narzedzia), but there is a lot of applets in java and the site load "for yonks"...

http://rubiks-cube.c0.pl/inne/eoline.html - here is this solver...

And 2 example zzf2l solves :

1)

scramble: B2 F2 D L R2 D' L' B F2 D2 L2 B' R F U2 L' B2 R' D2 L2 B' R2 F U2 B2 (blue on front, yellow on top)

you have 6 flipped edges..

EOLine: R L2 B F' L' F'

F2L: R' L' U L2 U' L' R U2 L' R' U R' U' R U R' U' 

end 1.1) (without phasing) R2 U2 R'

end 1.2) (with phasing) R2 U' R' U R U2 R'

---------------------------------

2)

scramble: F' U2 L' B2 R' F D L2 B' R2 F D' B2 F' D L R2 F2 D' L' B F' D2 L B'

EOLine: L U D B

to show you good trick to f2l: U R' U' R2 L u L2 u'

L' U' L' U' L U' L2 U L U L U2 L' U' L U L' U2 R' U R U L' R' U R U' L (oc with phasing)

I know that this can be easily solve in lower count of moves but I want to show you tricks to ZZF2L


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## Asheboy (Mar 12, 2009)

That solver is really useful thank you


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## qqwref (Mar 13, 2009)

Matthew said:


> scramble: B2 F2 D L R2 D' L' B F2 D2 L2 B' R F U2 L' B2 R' D2 L2 B' R2 F U2 B2 (blue on front, yellow on top)
> 
> you have 6 flipped edges..
> 
> ...



end 1.3) (winter variation) R U' L' U2 R U R' U2 L


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## Cride5 (Mar 13, 2009)

Tricked said:


> I also dont understand what Asheboy said, if i have 2 incorrectly oriented edges and i put them into UF and UR positions and then do F R' F' it doesnt orient the edges at all.



What this does is place one bad edge into the F face. The quarter turn fixes the 1 bad edge, but also creates 3 new bad ones in the process. You're then swapping the 1 fixed good edge with your final bad one. This leaves the F face with four bad edges, which are then fixed by the quarter turn.

NOTE: If you have only 2 bad edges, it may not seem so, but this is the most efficient way to do it. If you were to place both bad edges into the F face and turn, you would simply end up with two more bad edges!

Finally, in case it helps, here's what I do for each number of bad edges:

 0: You should be so lucky 
 2: As above, move one to F/B, turn, move the other to replace it, turn.
 4: Easy, just move them all to F/B and turn
 6: Most common, probably hardest. Either do 4, then deal with the other 2 as above ... or, flip 3, then add the 1 new bad edge to the other 3 to make a 4.
 8: Easy, 4 on one side, turn, then 4 on the other side turn.
 10: Forget about the bad edges. Move the 2 remaining good edges out of F/B, turn F and B, then deal with the final 2 bad edges as above.
 12: Easy, do F and B and you're left with 4.
... now once you've mastered that, you need to start looking at where the DF and DB edges are. I they're bad, then its good to have them in the FR/FL or BF/BL so that they can be rotated into place during your F/B turn. If they're good, or its not efficient to do as before I usually try to get them into the DL and DR positions. A simple D face turn after edge orientation gets the line. Remember though, there are plenty more ways to do it. This is usually efficient but not always!


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## not_kevin (Mar 13, 2009)

Cride5 said:


> Tricked said:
> 
> 
> > I also dont understand what Asheboy said, if i have 2 incorrectly oriented edges and i put them into UF and UR positions and then do F R' F' it doesnt orient the edges at all.
> ...



I'm assuming you meant 10 and 12, respectively, here?


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## Cride5 (Mar 13, 2009)

Tricked said:


> When guides say that for a edge to be oriented correctly it must be able to be put into its correct spot with any non 1/4 F/B turns, does that mean it also has to be turned correctly (ie. green face has the orange side of the edge, orange side has the green side of the edge would be incorrectly turned).
> 
> I also dont understand what Asheboy said, if i have 2 incorrectly oriented edges and i put them into UF and UR positions and then do F R' F' it doesnt orient the edges at all.
> 
> ...





not_kevin said:


> Cride5 said:
> 
> 
> > Tricked said:
> ...



What :confused: your eyes must be deceiving you


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## Asheboy (Mar 13, 2009)

I have a problem of what to do after EOLine. I don't see what the advantage of block building is and I do more of a EOCross. Plus the fact that I'm not that great at block building doesn't help.


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## ostracod (Mar 13, 2009)

If you avoid building the cross, it gives you more freedom to make c/e pairs; You have an entire side free for manipulating pieces, and you don't always have to make the same c/e pairs for the same block (sometimes you will make pairs which lie horizontally instead of vertically). I guess if you're REALLY good at block building, you could make blocks without intermediate steps, but here's how I do it:

1. Form a c/e pair which will be in the 2 by 2 by 1 block.
2. Form a centre/edge pair which will also be in the block.
3. Join the c/e pair and centre edge pair.

To make the block bigger (2 by 3 by 1), all you need to do is add another c/e pair to it.


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## Cride5 (Mar 13, 2009)

Asheboy said:


> I have a problem of what to do after EOLine. I don't see what the advantage of block building is and I do more of a EOCross. Plus the fact that I'm not that great at block building doesn't help.



I totally agree with ostracod here, its deffo less efficient if you build the whole cross first. However, I do find that having two unsolved cubies in the effectivly invisible in the DL and DR positions can ruin my lookahead. Because of this, I'll sometimes just quickly just position the DF edges if I'm having trouble finding my first C/E pair ... but this may be bad practice.

If you go for this approach, it reduces your 'blockbuilding' to three simple cases, depending on the orientation of the corner, and the orientation of its mid-slice edge. The last 1x1x2 block on each side can be a bit tricky to do efficiently when the C/E pair are already connected, so I've posted some EO preserving algs to deal with these situations for all the alg lovers out there


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## Tricked (Mar 13, 2009)

I thought that you only had to worry about the 4 edges in F2L when checking for good or bad edges. Now its 12? >.< I'm starting to get the good edge bad edge more now but I still cant find my own EOLines at all.

This is good though because fridrich was becoming a little stale and now i have something to learn besides pages of LL algs


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## Cride5 (Mar 13, 2009)

In EOLine you are trying to take care of ALL bad edges round the whole cube, not just F2L. This means there can be between 0 and twelve bad edges. Because of the laws of the cube there is always an even number of 'bad' edges, hence the 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12. By the end of the EOLine phase, *every* edge should be correctly oriented, and there should be no bad edges left - this is what makes ZZ so cool


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## Johannes91 (Mar 13, 2009)

Matthew said:


> scramble: B2 F2 D L R2 D' L' B F2 D2 L2 B' R F U2 L' B2 R' D2 L2 B' R2 F U2 B2 (blue on front, yellow on top)
> 
> you have 6 flipped edges..
> 
> EOLine: R L2 B F' L' F'


The DR-DL line can be done in 5 moves: F L' D' R D' y.



Matthew said:


> L' U' L' U' L U' L2 U L


Alternative: U L U2 L' U L2. (http://lar5.com/cube/blox.html)


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## Cride5 (May 22, 2009)

Spooter said:


> If someone can give me a website or just some information that can help me with the concept of finding the edges as well as solving that would be great.



I've updated my ZZ page to include a bunch of four-edge orientation cases with optimal solutions. Given that most EO cases are solved in groups of four, understanding these cases, should hopefully make understanding EO a bit easier.

See http://cube.crider.co.uk/#eo_cases

PS: Sorry for the uber bump


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## Cride5 (May 26, 2011)

OMGitsSolved said:


> I mean sometimes I come out with an odd number of edges and sometimes I get an even number but I fail to orient them correctly and sometimes I just can't find a way track all of the edges to orient them.



For detection of 'bad' edges, you just need look at specific stickers on the cube and apply this rule (assuming you're solving with yellow-top, blue-front)

(1) If the sticker facing you is red/orange, the edge is bad (put your finger on it).

(2) Otherwise look at the sticker on the side, if the side is white/yellow it's bad (put your finger on it).

Apply the rule to the top and bottom surfaces of U and D, and the front/back surfaces of the E-slice edges.


To solve, the general idea is to create an easy as possible 4-edge case. If it's an 8-edger, think of the possible ways to place 4 of them into one face, and the 4-edge case which results when they get wiped out. Similarly with 6-edgers, position 3 in one face, then make the F/B turn which leaves a nice 4-edge case. For 10-edgers, I normally position 8 edges in F/B first, then treat it as a 2-edger. An easy way to do this is to look at the two oriented edges and place them both somewhere in the S-slice. Generally, you need to build up a good sense of what a good 4-edge case is. I'd recommend practicing and becoming familiar with all the 4-edge cases here:
http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php?p=eoline#eo_cases


Good luck with it...


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## oll+phase+sync (May 30, 2011)

Cride5 said:


> For detection of 'bad' edges, you just need look at specific stickers on the cube and apply this rule (assuming you're solving with yellow-top, blue-front)
> 
> (1) If the sticker facing you is red/orange, the edge is bad (put your finger on it).
> 
> ...


Very short and the best color based definition I've seen so far.


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## Cubenovice (May 30, 2011)

That is exactly how I look at it. Must admit I learnt from Conrad's site...

My cube orientation: green or blue in front, with yellow or white on top.


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## Hershey (May 30, 2011)

How do you put bad edges in one layer without messing any other edges up? Is it with RUL moves?

(noob question)


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## irontwig (May 30, 2011)

Hershey said:


> How do you put bad edges in one layer without messing any other edges up? Is it with RUL moves?
> 
> (noob question)


 
RULDB2F2


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## Hershey (May 30, 2011)

irontwig said:


> RULDB2F2


 
Oh...


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## 5BLD (May 30, 2011)

I learned ZZ yesterday... EOLine just takes getting used to.
I simply detect all bad edges (check- it'll always be even) then put 4 in the F/B face, then continue... I either get another 4, or 2. I can't find a good way to combine EO and Line though...


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## Cubenovice (May 30, 2011)

5BLD said:


> then put 4 in the F/B face, then continue...



If you have 6 bad edges this is not the best approach...
Place 3 bad edges, single F/B turn and then you have 4 bad ones left (the 4th edge in the face goes from good to bad)


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## 5BLD (May 30, 2011)

Ok, thanks, I'm going to do that from now on.
My approach was just the simplest to start with...


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## Jilvin (Jun 1, 2011)

The main ZZ page explains EOline quite terribly. It took me a long time to even understand what the overall goal of EOline was.


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## a small kitten (Jun 2, 2011)

What's the main ZZ page?


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## EricReese (Jun 2, 2011)

I think he means Crides site, and doesn't realize.

Anyway, switched to zz a few days ago, 200 solves later and I'm only like 2 seconds slower with this then cfop, I'm starting to get faster at planning out eoline, i can plan it out now without putting fingers on the bad edges, i feel pro


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## whauk (Jun 7, 2011)

ok i started with ZZ seriously now.
some questions i have:
is anyone colorneutral or partial colorneutral? if so how many colors can you use on F and U and how does your general planning approach for the easiest orientation work?
i practised with blue/green on F and white/yellow on top. (so the recognition-rules stay the same) if i am used to this scheme alone would it be good to choose for example blue as F for all solves? this way i would probably speed up my recognition for F2L (e.g. every blue piece would have to go to FR or FL)

during F2L if you do not see any obvious block what is your attempt? choosing some random pieces for blockbuilding or finishing the cross? (or maybe others?)

is it necessary to build the line after EO? i often do some blockbuilding before and just finish the F2L without rotations and single F/B-turns. this also seems to work pretty well and you have more freedom by doing F2/B2 for blockbuilding. what are your experiences with this?

(btw i only use ZZ for OH (3 seconds slower than fridrich) and not for 2H (5 seconds slower))


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## FatBoyXPC (Jun 7, 2011)

EricReese said:


> Anyway, switched to zz a few days ago, 200 solves later and I'm only like 2 seconds slower with this then cfop, I'm starting to get faster at planning out eoline, i can plan it out now without putting fingers on the bad edges, i feel pro


 


EricReese said:


> Put a finger on each misoriented edge. Recognition of bad edges will come with time. I can recognize bad edges fairly quickly but I still have to put a finger on each edge though for planning out EOLine. Just practice and use kittens link


 
Posted 4 weeks ago :/
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?29106-EOLine-(ZZ-method)-help.&p=570635#post570635


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## EricReese (Jun 7, 2011)

fatboyxpc said:


> Posted 4 weeks ago :/
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?29106-EOLine-(ZZ-method)-help.&p=570635#post570635


 
I wasn't using it as my main back then. Only in just casual solves


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## CubeNoobie (Jun 7, 2011)

_General:_ I´m partial color neutral (white,green,orange) with no F/B-restrictions. In my opinion color neutrality doesn´t really affect the movecount of your Eo-Line/F2l very much, but you will get much better executions. 
Opposite color neutrality doesn´t affect the movecount + execution too much (and if b 1 move but only in 1/10000000 of the cases).
Personally I don´t really care about the best solution of the orientation. The movecount of the Eo-Line will be much lower if you sometimes do some werid solutions for the orientation, but preserve edges in thier solved position. 
But in general I try to avoid cases like this: first/all bad edges on front ecept for FU; other bad edge at BL/BR/BD...
Having a fixed F is not really good in my opinion. After maybe 100-200 solves you get used to the nonresctricted F-solving...

_F2L:_ I check if there´s an E-sliceedge at the right side + D-corners of this side on U/opposite side, if yes I solve the Eslice of the side+ L2/R2. Then I pair up the resting pieces of this side and solve it. If not, I´m sure that I didn´t see a good block...
Finishing cross is bad, because you could solve much more pieces with the same movecount. Just get yourself to know that you can build up one whole side by ~10moves one average(optimal solution/not optimal maybe +1 or 2). If you now waste maybe 5 moves solving the cross...

_Line thing:_ I think it´s personal preference. Myself would never do that, because it´ll destroy ma lookahead (especially if something at BD). Plus doesn´t it create some avoidable D-turns?
Using F2/B2 doesn´t seem pretty good for me. It´ll don´t affect the movecount that much. I only do something similair if I´d get a X-Eo-Line after it.

_@btw:_ If you´re only using ZZ for OH I would advise you to learn 2GLL(Setup+1l-LL= 6,875 + 12,1 moves). This would maybe safe yourself like 8 moves (because the optimal solutions of the cases are mostly RU)
If you plan to use ZZ for 2H ZZLL would be definetly the way to go (my opinion) with ZZLL the movecount would be reduced by 5 more moves for the whole solve.


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## CubeNoobie (Jun 7, 2011)

*@Whauk*

_General:_ I´m partial color neutral (white,green,orange) with no F/B-restrictions. In my opinion color neutrality doesn´t really affect the movecount of your Eo-Line/F2l very much, but you will get much better executions. 
Opposite color neutrality doesn´t affect the movecount + execution too much (and if b 1 move but only in 1/10000000 of the cases).
Personally I don´t really care about the best solution of the orientation. The movecount of the Eo-Line will be much lower if you sometimes do some werid solutions for the orientation, but preserve edges in thier solved position. 
But in general I try to avoid cases like this: first/all bad edges on front ecept for FU; other bad edge at BL/BR/BD...
Having a fixed F is not really good in my opinion. After maybe 100-200 solves you get used to the nonresctricted F-solving...

_F2L:_ I check if there´s an E-sliceedge at the right side + D-corners of this side on U/opposite side, if yes I solve the Eslice of the side+ L2/R2. Then I pair up the resting pieces of this side and solve it. If not, I´m sure that I didn´t see a good block...
Finishing cross is bad, because you could solve much more pieces with the same movecount. Just get yourself to know that you can build up one whole side by ~10moves one average(optimal solution/not optimal maybe +1 or 2). If you now waste maybe 5 moves solving the cross...

_Line thing:_ I think it´s personal preference. Myself would never do that, because it´ll destroy ma lookahead (especially if something at BD). Plus doesn´t it create some avoidable D-turns?
Using F2/B2 doesn´t seem pretty good for me. It´ll don´t affect the movecount that much. I only do something similair if I´d get a X-Eo-Line after it.

_@btw:_ If you´re only using ZZ for OH I would advise you to learn 2GLL(Setup+1l-LL= 6,875 + 12,1 moves). This would maybe safe yourself like 8 moves (because the optimal solutions of the cases are mostly RU)
If you plan to use ZZ for 2H ZZLL would be definetly the way to go (my opinion) with ZZLL the movecount would be reduced by 5 more moves for the whole solve.

cheers from Germany


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## whauk (Jun 8, 2011)

just got a solve that shows perfectly where i make exceptions... 

F D' B D B F U2 R B2 D U' L2 D R D F2 L' R D' L R' B F D2 U2 
6 misoriented edges:
orienting F' U2 B'
blockbuilding before finishing the line: L2 U L' z2 R U R' U2 L F2

it uses "D-turns" (well they are on top) and F2/B2 but i do not think it is bad therefor.

thanks for sharing your experience. it is pretty hard to finish F2L by building two 1x1x3 blocks... but i hope i will get used to this soon.


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## CubeNoobie (Jun 8, 2011)

I nearly never make a 1x1x3 for the second side(but the movecount is lower). I thought you meant the situation when you have finished your line and don´t see a good first block. If you have problems with the second side I´d recommend you to make some example solve and search for a good strategie: http://laire.fi/jarcs/


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## Aleksandr (Jun 8, 2011)

I found this picture from another thread that just helped me out a lot.


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