# WCA Hall of Fame



## Genius4Jesus (Feb 9, 2015)

This idea crossed my mind as Kevin Hays announced his retirement to be coming at the end of the year. I think it would be a great idea to have a Hall of Fame for retired cubers so they can be known and remembered by future generations of cubers. 

Cubers would have to be:
-Retired, not competed in over a year and/or are not planning to seriously compete in the future.
-Have some qualification to be put into the Hall of Fame, by feat(s) of speed or contribution to the community.

Members to the Hall of Fame would have to be nominated so I will start off.

-Minh Thai, for setting the first 3x3 WR. EDIT: maybe not Minh Thai...
-Tyson Mao, for being a dedicated contributor to the WCA for many years. 

Any suggestion about this can be stated below. Also, if this does happen, the Hall of Fame should probably be hosted on a website, as this thread is going to get very cluttered and unorganized very fast.


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## Ordway Persyn (Feb 9, 2015)

Good Idea. I'm sad to hear kevin's retiring


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## JemFish (Feb 9, 2015)

This sounds like a good idea.


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## pappas (Feb 9, 2015)

I think it's a great idea. 

The WCA might be able to organize this.


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## Kit Clement (Feb 9, 2015)

It almost seems like a way to encourage great speedcubers to quit. I'd rather have a Hall of Fame that doesn't stipulate that the competitor stops competing. It's not like this is like a major sport where you only play if you're in your prime -- competitors can still enjoy competitions and contribute to the community after their prime years of competing.


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## JemFish (Feb 9, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> It almost seems like a way to encourage great speedcubers to quit.



I don't think it's likely that great speedcubers will quit just to get their name in the Hall of Fame list. But...



Kit Clement said:


> I'd rather have a Hall of Fame that doesn't stipulate that the competitor stops competing.



...I agree.


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## Dene (Feb 9, 2015)

Tbh I've never been a fan of "hall of fame" type lists...

I just say that because I suspect most people that would post here would support the idea. I at least want it out there that there is a dissenting view.


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## Twoflower (Feb 9, 2015)

Dene said:


> Tbh I've never been a fan of "hall of fame" type lists...
> 
> I just say that because I suspect most people that would post here would support the idea. I at least want it out there that there is a dissenting view.



I guess it will be fully accepted if you never visit the WCA Hall of Fame webpage - should WCA choose to make on in the future.


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## pdilla (Feb 9, 2015)

Jessica Fridrich for widely popularizing CFOP, also for placing 2nd in the world at the 2003 World Championships.


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## Pedro (Feb 9, 2015)

I agree that it would be better to include people regardless of being active or not.
Inactive people don't usually check this kind of stuff, so they may never know they got in...like Mihn Thai.


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## Rocky0701 (Feb 9, 2015)

It should include cubes too and be put into a timeline showing what most people's mains were at the time.


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## penguinz7 (Feb 9, 2015)

pdilla said:


> Jessica Fridrich for widely popularizing CFOP, also for placing 2nd in the world at the 2003 World Championships.



If we add Jessica, I think we should also add Lars Petrus, Gilles Roux, and Zbigniew Zborowski.


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## cubizh (Feb 9, 2015)

Personally, I think a hall of fame is a highly premature idea to apply to the WCA at this moment (if at all). It's a very recent sport.
If you are wanting to discover and learn more about the people that were/are relevant in the cubing community, you may want to take a look at the speedsolving wiki page on Notable Cubers.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Feb 9, 2015)

I've been working on something like this. Weekend before Worlds, cubers that are no longer going for "best that they can be" but just for general competing. Or, inactive cubers that have not competed in three years.


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## AlexMaass (Feb 9, 2015)

Add Rowe Hessler definitely.


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## Genius4Jesus (Feb 9, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> It almost seems like a way to encourage great speedcubers to quit. I'd rather have a Hall of Fame that doesn't stipulate that the competitor stops competing. It's not like this is like a major sport where you only play if you're in your prime -- competitors can still enjoy competitions and contribute to the community after their prime years of competing.



Agreed, the Hall of Fame could include active cubers as well.


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## LucidCuber (Feb 9, 2015)

Dan Harris undoubtedly for the UK nomination. One of the first cubers of this generation. UK #1 for many years, did the Sunday competitions. Had many media appearances and basically made cubing well known in the UK, as well as organised the first competitions and was delegate for about 4-5 years.


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## nalralz (Feb 9, 2015)

I want Feliks Zemdegs in it because he beat average and single WR 2x2-7x7.


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## qqwref (Feb 9, 2015)

I also think it is silly to only include retired cubers, because you'd have to become extremely sick and infirm to be incapable of doing some solves at a competition. Modern competitive cubing's only been around for 12 years or so, and I can easily see people staying for several decades just because they like solving puzzles. In that respect it's more like chess than it is like, say, American football.



Dene said:


> Tbh I've never been a fan of "hall of fame" type lists...
> 
> I just say that because I suspect most people that would post here would support the idea. I at least want it out there that there is a dissenting view.


I only want a hall of fame if Dene is on it.



nalralz said:


> I want Feliks Zemdegs in it because he beat average and single WR 2x2-7x7.


Who's that? I don't think anyone else would suggest adding him. I'm forced to assume you only nominate him because he's your friend.


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## Memphis3000 (Feb 9, 2015)

What about Andrew Ricci, he held the NAR 3x3 single, and won us nationals 2012. He did some things in the community, including making the how to get fast at 3x3 video. He hasn't competed in 1+ years, and I think he would be a great addition.


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## Stefan (Feb 10, 2015)

nalralz said:


> I want Feliks Zemdegs in it because he beat average and single WR 2x2-7x7.



That actually means you don't want him in.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Feb 10, 2015)

I would put Stefan in, he made some contributions to the community, (Some really good ones), and he is known for being the nicest cuber on the forum!


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## nalralz (Feb 10, 2015)

qqwref said:


> Who's that? I don't think anyone else would suggest adding him. I'm forced to assume you only nominate him because he's your friend.


LOL!!! Well, I haven't met him yet!


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## Seanliu (Feb 10, 2015)

Maybe I could make one on my website, then some of you could import to WCA (hint, hint delegates)? Also, I nominate badmephisto. 

Inactive AND Active please!


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## JemFish (Feb 10, 2015)

strakerak said:


> I would put Stefan in, he made some contributions to the community, (Some really good ones), and he is known for being the nicest cuber on the forum!



Stefan is the nicest cuber on the forum? Me no think so...


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## penguinz7 (Feb 10, 2015)

JemFish said:


> Stefan is the nicest cuber on the forum? Me no think so...



*Coughitscalledsarcasmcough* He does have some great contributions though.


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## Stefan (Feb 10, 2015)

JemFish said:


> Stefan is the nicest cuber on the forum? Me no think so...



ARE YOU CALLING NOAH A LIAR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a--x3Rh1YgI#t=40


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## JemFish (Feb 10, 2015)

Stefan said:


> ARE YOU CALLING NOAH A LIAR
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a--x3Rh1YgI#t=40



Haha! No I'm sure your a nice guy...I think...


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## rowehessler (Feb 10, 2015)

I think this is a great idea, it'll leave cubers with a sense of pride and a feeling that what they have done was not for nothing...many cubers get forgotten over the years. I'm not going to say who, but I referred to Erik Akkersdijk to a certain cuber in the USA, who is competively one of the fastest in the country, and he did not know who he is....thats just ridiculous


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## TMOY (Feb 10, 2015)

Genius4Jesus said:


> -Minh Thai, for setting the first 3x3 WR.


Do you mean "WCA hall of fame" or "speedcubing hall of fame" ? Because WCA only exists since 2004, and Minh Thai never competed in any WCA competition.


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## cmhardw (Feb 10, 2015)

rowehessler said:


> I think this is a great idea, it'll leave cubers with a sense of pride and a feeling that what they have done was not for nothing...many cubers get forgotten over the years. I'm not going to say who, but I referred to Erik Akkersdijk to a certain cuber in the USA, who is competively one of the fastest in the country, and he did not know who he is....thats just ridiculous



I agree with this post very much, on all points made.


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## Seanliu (Feb 10, 2015)

Uwe Mefferts, for making advances in Mass-Produced Non-WCA Puzzles, and Oskar V.D. , Minh Thang, Traphium (did I get that right?) for epic puzzle making and designing (and 3D-Printing)


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## Dene (Feb 10, 2015)

As expected, it didn't take long for this to degrade into a popularity contest. I mean srsly, most of the names mentioned hardly deserve to go down forever in the annuls of cubing...


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## tseitsei (Feb 10, 2015)

Dene said:


> As expected, it didn't take long for this to degrade into a popularity contest. I mean srsly, most of the names mentioned hardly deserve to go down forever in the annuls of cubing...



I agree with this.

We shouldn't just name people because they are quite fast currently. Winning 1 world championship or breaking 1 world record isn't a valid reason to suggest someone for hall of fame. Otherwise we will have many many new members of hall of fame every year. And that is not what hall of fame should be like IMO. It should be something that only a selected few can ever achieve.


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## Seanliu (Feb 10, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> We shouldn't just name people because they are quite fast currently. Winning 1 world championship or breaking 1 world record isn't a valid reason to suggest someone for hall of fame. Otherwise we will have many many new members of hall of fame every year. And that is not what hall of fame should be like IMO. It should be something that only a selected few can ever achieve.



Maybe it could be split into sections e.g. Speed, WRs, whatever. It could also be split into 'levels of honour', in which some people are higher up in the Hall of Fame than others?


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## tseitsei (Feb 10, 2015)

Seanliu said:


> Maybe it could be split into sections e.g. Speed, WRs, whatever. It could also be split into 'levels of honour', in which some people are higher up in the Hall of Fame than others?



WR holders already get an appreciated title called "WR holder". I think Hall of fame should require absolutely dominating the (several) event(s) for a long period of time (for example Zemdegs for many events or Maskow for MBLD). Also as said before significant contributions to cubing community should be taken into account (for example Petrus, Fridrich for their method developement and Pochmann for his BLDmethod work...)


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## Seanliu (Feb 10, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> WR holders already get an appreciated title called "WR holder". I think Hall of fame should require absolutely dominating the (several) event(s) for a long period of time (for example Zemdegs for many events or Maskow for MBLD). Also as said before significant contributions to cubing community should be taken into account (for example Petrus, Fridrich for their method developement and Pochmann for his BLDmethod work...)



Wow. Amazing. Do you want to work on guidelines for the Hall Of Fame with me?


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## Deleted member 19792 (Feb 10, 2015)

Hall Of Fame will be announced on the final Saturday of March 2015.

Current nominations:
Gilles Roux
Tyson Mao
Erik Akkersdijk
Rowe Hessler
Jessica Fridrich
Stefan Pochmann
Frank Morris
Kevin Hays (?)


Celebrity nominations 
Will Smith, for causing a resurgence of the cube craze
Dan Brown (pogobat), he isn't serious, but his video taught many people how to solve the puzzle. 

Submit your nominations and I will draft up some guidelines/history. 

Active and inactive will work, but there will be certain qualifications for it.


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## JK (Feb 10, 2015)

This is a good idea. I'm also sad to hear Kevin's retiring.
I'm also old enough in cubing community and don't know if I can get some accomplishment in some events. Just see what I can achieve in 2015. Maybe I'll retire by the end of 2015 or just keep going with 2x2.


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## CiaranBeahan (Feb 10, 2015)

would something like popularising the speedcubing community with the public be counted? e.g. Will Smith like strakerak suggested.


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## Dene (Feb 10, 2015)

Seanliu said:


> Maybe it could be split into sections e.g. Speed, WRs, whatever. It could also be split into 'levels of honour', in which some people are higher up in the Hall of Fame than others?



Lol ye let's just induct the whole database into the hall of fame. I'm sure they've all done something...

Also I don't see why Kevin Hays would belong in a Hall of Fame (no offence to him in particular, just because his name is being thrown about without question).


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## Stefan (Feb 10, 2015)

strakerak said:


> Submit your nominations and I will draft up some guidelines/history.



Ron van Bruchem
Shotaro Makisumi
Chris Hardwick
Dan Knights
Yu Nakajima
Dan Cohen
Richard Carr
Dror Vomberg
Jaap Scherphuis
Lars Vandenbergh
Herbert Kociemba
Tomas Rokicki
Mátyás Kuti


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## tseitsei (Feb 10, 2015)

Stefan said:


> Mátyás Kuti



WUT?!

He should absolutely definitely NEVER be in Hall of fame or receive any other sort of respect whatsoever. He cheated. That outweighs every single good thing he might have ever done to speedsolving IMO.


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## ender9994 (Feb 10, 2015)

Are we trying to limit this mostly to just people who have directly influenced the WCA (competing, organizing etc.) or others with less direct influence as well? 

Basically what Stefan said above me, plus...
-Ernő Rubik
-Jessica Fridrich
-Chris Hardwick


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## Ranzha (Feb 10, 2015)

Stefan said:


> Ron van Bruchem
> Shotaro Makisumi
> Chris Hardwick
> Dan Knights
> ...



I agree with all the names on this list that I know.


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## tseitsei (Feb 10, 2015)

I haven't been around long enough to know all of the people from earlier years but I would suggest the following people:

Stefan Pochmann
Chris Hardwick
Jessica Fridrich
Lars Petrus
Gilles Roux
Herbert Kociemba
Feliks Zemdegs
Marcin Kowalczyk

I'm sure I missed much (even better) candidates but those came to my mind instantly without thinking...


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## Ollie (Feb 10, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> I haven't been around long enough to know all of the people from earlier years but I would suggest the following people:
> 
> Stefan Pochmann
> Chris Hardwick
> ...



Marcell Endrey?

WRs in every BLD event, won every BLD event in WC2013 and Euro 2012, and made huge improvements in both big BLD WRs

Edit: oh, and Means of 3 in both big BLDs. He has literally accomplished everything worthwhile in BLD.


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## obelisk477 (Feb 10, 2015)

Well no one has mentioned Faz since the official nomination request, so:

Feliks Zemdegs

I can't imagine that this is a preemptive nomination. I don't think anyone 5 years from now will be like, "Oh yeah, maybe he wasn't that great". I want to include Maskow too, but i'm not sold yet, mainly because he is only good at a very specific thing.


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## penguinz7 (Feb 10, 2015)

Zbigniew Zborowski

ZZ! Also FMC WR holder at one point.


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## tseitsei (Feb 10, 2015)

Ollie said:


> Marcell Endrey?
> 
> WRs in every BLD event, won every BLD event in WC2013 and Euro 2012, and made huge improvements in both big BLD WRs
> 
> Edit: oh, and Means of 3 in both big BLDs. He has literally accomplished everything worthwhile in BLD.



Yeah definitely Marcell too!



> I want to include Maskow too, but i'm not sold yet, mainly because he is only good at a very specific thing.



Yeah but how good! 

The current MBLD WR is 15 cubes (!!!!) better than 2nd place result so that means the difference between 1st and 2nd place is 36% of the WR
That equals someone doing ~4.1s 3x3 single or ~4.8s 3x3 avg.
That is something totally amazing to me. He is so much ahead of everyone else...
Also he has 3BLD WRs in single and mean (and 7/10 of the top 10 3BLD singles...).


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## StachuK1992 (Feb 10, 2015)

Are Dene and I the only ones that think this is kind of ... dumb?
Ideally it'd be neat, but there's no way that this isn't going to end up in a popularity contest unless we have strict guidelines, which will never fully encompass something that everyone cares about.


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## tseitsei (Feb 10, 2015)

StachuK1992 said:


> Are Dene and I the only ones that think this is kind of ... dumb?
> Ideally it'd be neat, but there's no way that this isn't going to end up in a popularity contest unless we have strict guidelines, which will never fully encompass something that everyone cares about.



It only gets dumb (IMO) if we let cubers in to the Hall of fame too easily... Inflation of this Hall of fame is the biggest obstacle I see for this. As long as you need to have done something truly exceptional to get there I like this idea. 

And of course the decisions about who to accept should be made by intelligent, experienced and as objective as possible cubers only.


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## Genius4Jesus (Feb 10, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> It only gets dumb (IMO) if we let cubers in to the Hall of fame too easily... Inflation of this Hall of fame is the biggest obstacle I see for this. As long as you need to have done something truly exceptional to get there I like this idea.
> 
> And of course the decisions about who to accept should be made by intelligent, experienced and as objective as possible cubers only.



I agree with this thought. 

Also, since now to be in the Hall of Fame you have to have done something amazing for an extended period of time (which I agree with), I guess Minh Thai is out.


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## Genius4Jesus (Feb 10, 2015)

strakerak said:


> Submit your nominations and I will draft up some guidelines/history.



Cool, looks like this is amounting to something sort of legit. 

I nominate: 
-Feliks Zemdegs 
-Erik Akkersdijk
-Rowe Hessler
-Yu Nakajima

IMO these are "generational cubers", who have been at the top for a long time. 

(Also, I know they were already nominated, but I will still re-nominate them because they are just that good.)


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## Ross The Boss (Feb 10, 2015)

i havent read every post -and i do not intend to - so forgive me if this has already been covered, but is this a proposal for a _cubing_ hall of fame, or specifically a _wca_ hall of fame? if the later, i believe an elected committee would be necessary.


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## stoic (Feb 10, 2015)

I was on a football forum earlier in the week, and people there were discussing what qualifies a player as a "legend". 
This thread is eerily reminiscent of it. 
(Basically, a very small number were obvious but nobody could agree the criteria beyond that.)


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## obelisk477 (Feb 10, 2015)

ellwd said:


> I was on a football forum earlier in the week, and people there were discussing what qualifies a player as a "legend".
> This thread is eerily reminiscent of it.
> (Basically, a very small number were obvious but nobody could agree the criteria beyond that.)



IMO, the 'very small number that were obvious' should be the only criterion for Hall of Fame status. I mean it's subjective to be sure, but as long as you get people who arent obviously biased and are relatively well repsected, you're not gonna get a list that people disagree with for the most part.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Feb 11, 2015)

Guideline time!

In order for a speedcuber, retired, inactive (out of his prime), celebrity, or currently active, the following must be put into place before a nomination will be considered.


RETIRED -

The candidate will have had to not compete for three years, and it is recommended that a confirmed note of retirement is presented beforehand.

The candidate will have had to either :

Given such contributions to the cubing community, such as Gilles Roux, for inventing the Roux method.

Held a world record or a world championship title, but also presenting what can be considered a major improvement over other cubers. Such as Maskow's MultiBLD world record. It would be silly to put someone up for the Hall of Fame because they held a World Record for about a week. A good example of that would be the beginning of 2014, when about 15 people held the Skewb World Record in January.

Currently an inactive competitor, or a cuber out of their prime:

The candidate can qualify for this if he/she:

Has stopped going to competitions to be the "best that they can be", but going to either hang out, help out, or organize the competition. (A case like this would be Oliver Frost.)

Active:

Candidate must have held one or several meaningful World Records. The candidate also would have had to make a serious contribution to the community. (This can be dodged if the candidate has excelled greatly in one event. Example: Maskow, Feliks).

Celebrity:

Must have in any way popularized general cubing, but must be highly recognized and praised by the community itself. Examples include Will Smith, and Dan Brown. (Dan Brown is working in the media now, and he normally makes television appearances in New York.)

Let me know if any other guidelines need to be added/changed.


Also: When submitting nominations, include a bit of a description about the candidate. This way, it will help me look into it a bit more and will let me know what to emphasize on.


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## Stefan (Feb 11, 2015)

So... Will Smith is ok, but Herbert Kociemba isn't? That's just wrong.


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## JemFish (Feb 11, 2015)

Good guidelines. This should be added to the starter post.


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## BaMiao (Feb 11, 2015)

I don't see the point in differentiating retired, inactive, and active cubers. Let's just judge people for inclusion based on official results. Besides, we really shouldn't discourage any "retired" cubers from attending comps.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Feb 11, 2015)

Stefan said:


> So... Will Smith is ok, but Herbert Kociemba isn't? That's just wrong.



Herbert Kociemba would be inactive or retired in my opinion.


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## TheOneOnTheLeft (Feb 11, 2015)

strakerak said:


> Has stopped going to competitions to be the "best that they can be", but going to either hang out, help out, or organize the competition. (A case like this would be Oliver Frost.)



Ollie seems like a terrible example here. Yes, he is organising a competition, but he has also posted a sub-WR 4BLD Ao12 since he last competed, so I think it's inaccurate to say he's not still trying.


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## Stefan (Feb 11, 2015)

strakerak said:


> Herbert Kociemba would be inactive or retired in my opinion.



Hmm, retired from what? He never competed. And "inactive" included "stopped going to competitions", and I'm not aware of him ever going to a competition.


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## pdilla (Feb 11, 2015)

penguinz7 said:


> If we add Jessica, I think we should also add Lars Petrus, Gilles Roux, and Zbigniew Zborowski.



I didn't suggest them because I thought they were still active. A quick WCA check proved me wrong.


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## Musicalboy2 (Feb 11, 2015)

StachuK1992 said:


> Are Dene and I the only ones that think this is kind of ... dumb?
> Ideally it'd be neat, but there's no way that this isn't going to end up in a popularity contest unless we have strict guidelines, which will never fully encompass something that everyone cares about.



I'm not exactly _against_ this idea, but I think I agree with your general sentiment.

Perhaps this goes a little beyond the topic of this thread, but if people care much about certain people getting recognition, why not redirect their energy to, for example, updating the wiki? Unlike the hall of fame, it's a thing that already exists, and is an entity that can encompass things that everyone cares about. Anyone can contribute to it (they can add things about their favourite cubers to their hearts' content), but last I checked, there is so much there that deserves a lot more attention. (For example, Andrew Ricci was mentioned at some point, but his wiki entry is a mere 2 sentences long)


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## tseitsei (Feb 11, 2015)

Being retired or inactive or something like that should NOT be a criteria to qualify for this lust IMO


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## Dene (Feb 11, 2015)

strakerak said:


> Guideline time!
> 
> In order for a speedcuber, retired, inactive (out of his prime), celebrity, or currently active, the following must be put into place before a nomination will be considered.
> 
> ...



Ahahaha oh my it's worse than I thought. Can I be in there for all the NRs and CRs I held in the past?


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## stoic (Feb 11, 2015)

Anyone voted for Justin Bieber yet?


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## Seanliu (Feb 11, 2015)

strakerak said:


> Guideline time!
> 
> In order for a speedcuber, retired, inactive (out of his prime), celebrity, or currently active, the following must be put into place before a nomination will be considered.
> 
> ...



Dene, really? CRs and NRs don't count. Also, couldn't you help a little on the guidelines instead of rambling in protest?


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## tseitsei (Feb 11, 2015)

Dene said:


> Ahahaha oh my it's worse than I thought. Can I be in there for all the NRs and CRs I held in the past?



How did you come to the conclusion that you would? He clearly spoke about WRs (in several events and by a big margin...).



Also on topic: I think this whole "celebrity" category is stupid and shouldn't exist. They shouldn't get to cubing hall of fame just because they are famous because of other things and can only solve cube quite slowly...


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## cmhardw (Feb 11, 2015)

Seanliu said:


> Dene, really? CRs and NRs don't count. Also, couldn't you help a little on the guidelines instead of rambling in protest?



It's not at all obvious to me that not having a world record means no inclusion to a proposed hall of fame. That's logically equivalent to "If you're in the Hall of Fame, then you have a world record." If that's the case, then a Hall of Fame would just be a subset of the list of previous world record holders and there would not necessarily be a need for a separate hall of fame list.


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## tseitsei (Feb 11, 2015)

cmhardw said:


> It's not at all obvious to me that not having a world record means no inclusion to a proposed hall of fame. That's logically equivalent to "If you're in the Hall of Fame, then you have a world record." If that's the case, then a Hall of Fame would just be a list of previous world record holders and there would be no need for a hall of fame.



You don't necessarily need WR to get to the Hall of fame if you have given something valuable to the speedsolving community otherwise. BUT Dene asked specifically if he can get in the list BECAUSE he had some CRs and NRs earlier. And to that the answer is obviously no.

For example Jessica Fridrich and Gilles Roux and Herbert Kociemba would be quite good candidates for Hall of fame IMO even tough they don't have any WRs(that I know of at least  )


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## Kit Clement (Feb 11, 2015)

Musicalboy2 said:


> I'm not exactly _against_ this idea, but I think I agree with your general sentiment.
> 
> Perhaps this goes a little beyond the topic of this thread, but if people care much about certain people getting recognition, why not redirect their energy to, for example, updating the wiki? Unlike the hall of fame, it's a thing that already exists, and is an entity that can encompass things that everyone cares about. Anyone can contribute to it (they can add things about their favourite cubers to their hearts' content), but last I checked, there is so much there that deserves a lot more attention. (For example, Andrew Ricci was mentioned at some point, but his wiki entry is a mere 2 sentences long)



Absolutely agree.

In reality, this is really a futile project. Trying to draw a line between "Great" and "Good" is really difficult, and in the end, what does a list of names do for the community? It's far more productive to be contributing to a resource like this so we can have a resource detailing a wide range of accomplishments and developments.


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## penguinz7 (Feb 11, 2015)

I think you should nominate me because I have UPR in multiple events and have so many great contributions to speedcubing.
Obvious sarcasm is obvious


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## cmhardw (Feb 11, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> You don't necessarily need WR to get to the Hall of fame if you have given something valuable to the speedsolving community otherwise. BUT Dene asked specifically if he can get in the list BECAUSE he had some CRs and NRs earlier. And to that the answer is obviously no.



Should Emile Compion be in the Hall of Fame?


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## Hssandwich (Feb 11, 2015)

What about Anthony Brooks?


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## tseitsei (Feb 11, 2015)

cmhardw said:


> Should Emile Compion be in the Hall of Fame?



I don't know if he has contributed something significant to cubing community but simply judging by his WCA profile no. He shouldn't. I mean why should he? He isn't even near world class in any of the events. And only the best of the best should be in hall of fame


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## cmhardw (Feb 11, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> I don't know if he has contributed something significant to cubing community but simply judging by his WCA profile no. He shouldn't. I mean why should he? He isn't even near world class in any of the events. And only the best of the best should be in hall of fame



I must have different criteria in mind for what inclusion into a Hall of Fame would entail.

Let me try to describe my thoughts:

1) Have multiple lists of criteria, and keep a list of cubers who fit those criteria. For example, have a list of former and current WR holders, a list of former and current World Champions, a list of people who organized competitions "a lot," a list of people in the "public consciousness" of the cubing community for either their good works in furthering the community or in their competitive prowess in their area or worldwide.

2) Let these lists represent cubers who are worthy of recognition in the area of the list on which they are inducted.

3) "The" Hall of Fame would be the cubers who are contained in a "large" number of the lists from #1. This may be a direct 1 to 1 count or the lists may be weighted by "importance"

4) A large amount of effort that brings about a positive change in our community should not go unrecognized. Basically, If someone wants to be in the Hall of Fame badly enough, and they strive for it over their competitive career and beyond, then there should be a means in the Hall Of Fame Criteria by which such a person would be inducted. For example, someone who has never earned a recognized WCA record, but organizes competitions regularly for a 20 year period should be listed in the Hall of Fame for furthering our sport with their time and effort. If such a person is not recognized in a Hall of Fame list, then they should be recognized in some other way that the community views as prestigious (see #1 and #2)

These are my ideas about a hall of fame as they stand so far. I am still forming my thoughts on this topic.


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## rowehessler (Feb 11, 2015)

btw idk how dan cohen hasn't been thrown out there yet. I think he has the third most WRs of all time


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## cmhardw (Feb 11, 2015)

rowehessler said:


> btw idk how dan cohen hasn't been thrown out there yet. I think he has the third most WRs of all time



I agree with Dan Cohen being nominated.

Thibaut Jacquinot should be nominated in my opinion, as well as others who were the first to break major psychological barriers (I.e. The first ever sub-X where X was viewed at one time as a prestigious "wall" to be broken)

I have many more names I am thinking that I would like to nominate, but I am still not clear on what the criteria is that I am selecting for with my nominations. Am I nominating those who, to me, "obviously" should be in the Hall of Fame? When everybody nominates this way do we then search for those who are nominated the "most" times?

The more I think about this the more it seems that you will have people like me who nominate for "improvement of the sport of cubing" reasons and others voting for a "best of the best cubers" reason.

Which is it? Or both?


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## tseitsei (Feb 11, 2015)

cmhardw said:


> I must have different criteria in mind for what inclusion into a Hall of Fame would entail.



I agree. We have different criteria in mind. 

I think there should be 2 main ways to get to the Hall of fame both of which require something that not everyone can do:

1. Be totally amazingly fast and awesome in some events and break several WRs (and/or by a huge margin). Example Feliks Zemdegs
2. Contribute something original, new and useful to the community. Example Lars Petrus (method developement) or Herbert Kociemba (his two-phase solving algorithm and other puzzle theory stuff)


I strongly disagree that Hall of fame should be something that anyone can get into if they try hard enough. Hall of fame in every other sport is something that only most talented individuals get into and that is how it should be IMO.


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## Dene (Feb 11, 2015)

rowehessler said:


> btw idk how dan cohen hasn't been thrown out there yet.



He has been.



tseitsei said:


> How did you come to the conclusion that you would? He clearly spoke about WRs (in several events and by a big margin...).



You obviously didn't read his requirements thoroughly enough. I still think I qualify.


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## cmhardw (Feb 11, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> I agree. We have different criteria in mind.
> 
> I think there should be 2 main ways to get to the Hall of fame both of which require something that not everyone can do:
> 
> ...



Should Patrick Kelly be in the Hall of Fame? (i.e. PJK, the creator of this forum?)




tseitsei said:


> I strongly disagree that Hall of fame should be something that anyone can get into if they try hard enough. Hall of fame in every other sport is something that only most talented individuals get into and that is how it should be IMO.



If this is to be the "spirit" of the Hall of Fame for cubing, then I am with those who do not agree with the creation of a Hall of Fame. I think effort and contributions to the community as a whole should be rewarded equally with skill and cubing prowess. A Hall of Fame that excludes those who through their effort work toward improving our community should not be called a Hall of Fame and should be called a "Best of the Best" cubers list or something like that.


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## ender9994 (Feb 11, 2015)

cmhardw said:


> If this is to be the "spirit" of the Hall of Fame for cubing, then I am with those who do not agree with the creation of a Hall of Fame. I think effort and contributions to the community as a whole should be rewarded equally with skill and cubing prowess. A Hall of Fame that excludes those who through their effort work toward improving our community should not be called a Hall of Fame and should be called a "Best of the Best" cubers list or something like that.



I agree with this completely. If this is going to be a list created with only pure speed/skill in mind, then it is completely useless. For judging just skill, the WCA database will suffice. Almost every other "Hall of fame" list also has sections for people that might have never played, or not competed much, but have put lots of time/effort in bettering that sport in different ways.


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## tseitsei (Feb 11, 2015)

ender9994 said:


> I agree with this completely. If this is going to be a list created with only pure speed/skill in mind, then it is completely useless. For judging just skill, the WCA database will suffice. *Almost every other "Hall of fame" list also has sections for people that might have never played, or not competed much, but have put lots of time/effort in bettering that sport in different ways.*



That is why I put my second option in my criteria to get in to the hall of fame:


> 2. Contribute something original, new and useful to the community. Example Lars Petrus (method developement) or Herbert Kociemba (his two-phase solving algorithm and other puzzle theory stuff)


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## cmhardw (Feb 11, 2015)

Here are my nominations:


Spoiler



Ron van Bruchem
Jaap Scherphuis
Mirek Goljan
Jessica Fridrich
Guus Razoux Schultz
David Allen
Julian Chilvers
Minh Thai
John White
Katsuyuki Konishi
Shotaro Makisumi
Matsuyuki Akimoto
Stefan Pochmann
Patrick Kelly
Bob Burton
Lucas Garron
Jeremy Fleischman
Jasmine Lee
Emile Compion
Dene Beardsley
Frank Morris
Dan Harris
Jess Bonde
Dan Knights
Dror Vomberg
Ryan Patricio
Matyas Kuti (speedsolve events)
Yu Nakajima
Andrew Kang
Thom Barlow
Thibaut Jacquinot
Dan Cohen
Milan Baticz
Zbigniew Zborowski
Gilles Roux
Lars Petrus
Erik Akkersdijk
Mitsuki Gunji
Yu JeongMin
Yumu Tabuchi
Anssi Vanhala
Lars Vandenbergh
Daniel Beyer
Mate Horvath
Rafal Guzewicz
Ryosuke Mondo
Jean Pons
Eduardo Chambon
Yuki Hayashi
Leyan Lo
Tyson Mao
Toby Mao
Dan Dzoan
Richard Carr
Grant Tregay
Richard Patterson
Thomas Zolnowski
Breandan Vallance
Syuhei Omura
Michal Halczuk
Timothy Sun
Tim Reynolds
Rowe Hessler
Oliver Perge
Bence Barat
Balint Bodor
Simon Westlund
Oscar Roth Andersen
Dennis Strehlau
Kai Jiptner
Tim Habermaas
Piotr Michal Padlewski
Michael Gottlieb
Michal Pleskowicz
Feliks Zemdegs
Mats Valk
Giovanni Contardi
Zane Carney
Marcell Endrey
Daniel Sheppard
Sebastien Auroux
Henrik Buus Aagaard
Piti Pichedpan
Kevin Hays
Yu Da-Hyun
Cornelius Dieckmann
Sebastian Weyer
Marcin Zalewski
Marcin Kowalczyk
Frederick Badie
Joel van Noort
Stefan Huber
Clement Gallet
Robert Yau
Rama Temmink
Ton Dennenbroek
Oliver Frost
Ville Seppänen
Chester Lian
Sarah Strong
Rob Stuart
Stachu Korick
Mike Hughey
Vincent Sheu
Shelley Chang
Andy Camann
Brent Morgan
Ian Winokur
Jon Morris
Erno Rubik
Tom Rokicki
Herbert Kociemba
Chris Mowla
Morley Davidson
Dan Brown



I am editing this list as I think of more. It will probably be in flux for a day or so.


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## obelisk477 (Feb 11, 2015)

cmhardw said:


> Here are my nominations:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



You can nominate yourself, you know


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## cmhardw (Feb 11, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> You can nominate yourself, you know



That feels awkward for me. I like it when nominations are for those (minus yourself) who you want to be included.


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## rowehessler (Feb 11, 2015)

cmhardw said:


> That feels awkward for me. I like it when nominations are for those (minus yourself) who you want to be included.



i nominate chris hardwick


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## Sir E Brum (Feb 11, 2015)

rowehessler said:


> i nominate chris hardwick



Seconded.


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## Stefan (Feb 11, 2015)

Chris, did you just list everyone you know?  Btw, why Emile Compion? Yes, he has tons of CRs, but that seems pretty much just because he's an African citizen living in North America. Not much of an achievement unless he swam there.

Btw: In my nominations I left out people that had been nominated already. I thought once is enough, but I see a lot of repetitions now. Are nominations usually already perceived as a kind of voting?


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## cmhardw (Feb 11, 2015)

Stefan said:


> Chris, did you just list everyone you know?  Btw, why Emile Compion? Yes, he has tons of CRs, but that seems pretty much just because he's an African citizen living in North America. Not much of an achievement unless he swam there.



I want my list to be fairly inclusive  I think that the number of people who should be included in the hall of fame is more than 10 and less than about 100 or so. I tried to set my "bar" for nomination accordingly. I did try to be discerning for speed/skill while also trying to reward those who have contributed to the betterment of our community in some substantial way.

Emile is a motivating factor in my eyes because he holds 7 current ARs, the oldest of which were set as far back as 2009. A number of up and coming African cubers have Emile as the bar for getting an AR for their chosen event. I view his performances as a motivating factor for African cubers to improve, and he has been this motivating factor since 2007, so 8 years of positive contribution to the community for a large land area over a large number of WCA events.



Stefan said:


> Btw: In my nominations I left out people that had been nominated already. I thought once is enough, but I see a lot of repetitions now. Are nominations usually already perceived as a kind of voting?



I'm unclear on this point as well. I listed everyone whom I wanted to nominate in case it is a voting system. If it's a one nomination system then I will remove the duplicates from my list.

Right now I think people are voting as a mix between the nominating as a voting system, and making sure that all of those they want nominated have been nominated by someone so far.


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## Stefan (Feb 11, 2015)

cmhardw said:


> Emile is a motivating factor in my eyes because he holds 7 current ARs, the oldest of which were set as far back as 2009. A number of up and coming African cubers have Emile as the bar for getting an AR for their chosen event. I view his performances as a motivating factor for African cubers to improve, and he has been this motivating factor since 2007, so 8 years of positive contribution to the community for a large land area over a large number of WCA events.



Still feels odd, but I can also understand that view, thanks.


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## StachuK1992 (Feb 11, 2015)

If there is any hall of fame (and I doubt there will ever be, and do not agree with one), Chris' metric of "have they improved the community/hobby/whatever as a whole" guideline is probably the best.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Feb 11, 2015)

I just took Chris' list and pasted it into a word processor. Hoping to narrow that list down to 12 candidates to be inducted.

Eight of them will be cubers. Active, inactive, or retired.
Two of them will be celebrities, those who presented the puzzle and started another cube craze (Or pushed towards teaching the puzzle.)
The last two will be developmental cubers. These candidates didn't really compete, but they wanted to push puzzle theory or competitive speedcubing overall. 

PM me if you want to be on selection.


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## StachuK1992 (Feb 11, 2015)

Is your plan to basically just ignore all of the counterpoints to this idea as a whole, proceeding further and appoint yourself in charge?


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## Ollie (Feb 11, 2015)

StachuK1992 said:


> If there is any hall of fame (and I doubt there will ever be, and do not agree with one), Chris' metric of "have they improved the community/hobby/whatever as a whole" guideline is probably the best.



Totally agree with this. World record holders, former and current, are already immortal in the sense that their records will remain on their individual WCA profiles, on the rankings pages and on the records page. Recognize the people that: 

1. Developed the methods that made their skill possible.
2. Write the software that speedcubers everywhere use to find the fastest algs, produces fair competition-worthy scrambles, build the websites that allow us to see our results (and even live results as they happen) all of which we take for granted.
3. Create clear and engaging tutorials/walk-throughs that will reach hundreds of thousands (even millions) of people, teach them to solve the cube and encourage them into speedcubing.
4. The most senior members that have dedicated thousands of hours to organizing competitions, adjusting the regulations to make them fair for everyone, delegating competitions etc, at no small expense to themselves.

Even after all that, sticking the names of anyone worthy on a WCA page that barely anyone will see just doesn't come close to truly recognizing their accomplishments.


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## BaMiao (Feb 11, 2015)

@strakerak:

No offense (I like the initiative you've taken), but no one is going to take this "hall of fame" seriously unless it is done in some official capacity. If it is really going to be called the "WCA Hall of Fame", it should be organized by the WCA board, and with input from the worldwide community- not organized by one person who thought to do so and voted on by the subset of people within this small forum. You're more than welcome to form the "strakerak hall of fame as voted on by users of speedsolving.com".

On another note, I'd find that this "hall of fame" would have more weight with some level of exclusivity. Induction should really be seen as an honor.

Here's my idea for the induction process: Something like ~10-20 people become inducted at the formation of the hall of fame. After that, 2 more become inducted on a yearly basis. Induction can be decided by appointed committee, delegate vote, community vote, or some combination. The numbers of inductees can change based on how exclusive we want it to be.


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## scottishcuber (Feb 12, 2015)

rowehessler said:


> ...I referred to Erik Akkersdijk to a certain cuber in the USA, who is competively one of the fastest in the country, and he did not know who he is....thats just ridiculous



wow


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## qqwref (Feb 12, 2015)

I just wanna say that whatever Hall of Fame gets created, no matter how many people we decide on, Matyas Kuti should not be on it. He did some great, legitimate things and dominated the speedsolving world for a while, but he really does not deserve any kind of Fame for what he did.



cmhardw said:


> Emile is a motivating factor in my eyes because he holds 7 current ARs, the oldest of which were set as far back as 2009. A number of up and coming African cubers have Emile as the bar for getting an AR for their chosen event. I view his performances as a motivating factor for African cubers to improve, and he has been this motivating factor since 2007, so 8 years of positive contribution to the community for a large land area over a large number of WCA events.


In a long list of notable/relevant cubers he does belong, sure. But IMO he got so many AfRs mostly because of luck. Despite being a South African citizen it's clear from his profile that his "home base" was always Canada, so he was mainly able to accumulate tons of continental records by being from a continent with next to no cubers to compete with, while living in an area with tons of cubers and competitions. Several others have done similar things with individual countries (e.g. Cameron Almasi, who was at many California competitions with me and was registered for Iran) but Emile happened to get a continent instead.


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## Animorpher13 (Feb 12, 2015)

It might be a bit hard to convince the right people, but i think that it will be a great thing (especially for younger cubers and cubers of the following generations) if tehy know about their predecessors.


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## Seanliu (Feb 12, 2015)

BaMiao said:


> @strakerak:
> 
> No offense (I like the initiative you've taken), but no one is going to take this "hall of fame" seriously unless it is done in some official capacity. If it is really going to be called the "WCA Hall of Fame", it should be organized by the WCA board, and with input from the worldwide community- not organized by one person who thought to do so and voted on by the subset of people within this small forum. You're more than welcome to form the "strakerak hall of fame as voted on by users of speedsolving.com".
> 
> ...



Absolutely Great. But we need guidelines.


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## Chrizz (Feb 12, 2015)

The idea of halls of fame are that they include people who significantly (positively) changed that area (in this case cubing). There are generally less than 100 people in a hall of fame, and usually less than 5 people per year get added.

I don't think this hall of fame is going to work if everyone just spews out names without even explaining why they should be in the list. People that deserve a place in the hall of fame should not be able to be described in 1 or 2 sentences. If they can, they are just not special enough (that's not to be rude, but that's how halls of fame work).

So please, anyone who makes gigantic lists of names, keep in mind that the people should have made a serious positive change in the cubing community.


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## tseitsei (Feb 12, 2015)

BaMiao said:


> @strakerak:
> 
> No offense (I like the initiative you've taken), but no one is going to take this "hall of fame" seriously unless it is done in some official capacity. If it is really going to be called the "WCA Hall of Fame", it should be organized by the WCA board, and with input from the worldwide community- not organized by one person who thought to do so and voted on by the subset of people within this small forum. You're more than welcome to form the "strakerak hall of fame as voted on by users of speedsolving.com".
> 
> ...


+10000000 for this post. Especially for the bolded part. That is what hall of fame should be.

Also I agree with qq that Matyas Kuti should absolutely NOT be in the hall of fame since he did the most shameful thing a cuber can do... Cheating in official comps IMO negates all and every one of his other accomplishments and contributions.


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## Jimmy Liu (Feb 12, 2015)

What about Luis J. Iáñez who create cubecomps or Lucas Garron who devoted himself into github a lot, also Jeremy Fleischman who write the TNoodle program.

Edit: Sorry, I see Lucas and Jeremy on the list now. No Bingliang Li?


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## penguinz7 (Feb 12, 2015)

Jimmy Liu said:


> What about Luis J. Iáñez who create cubecomps or Lucas Garron who devoted himself into github a lot, also Jeremy Fleischman who write the TNoodle program.
> 
> Edit: Sorry, I see Lucas and Jeremy on the list now. No Bingliang Li?



Luis also made TTW.


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## Indiancuber (Feb 12, 2015)

I would like to add yu Nakajima, he is awesome


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