# is it possible a Official Competition for Braille people?



## Crazycubemom (Aug 2, 2010)

I have plan to organize a competition in Jakarta/ Indonesia in October after Asian Champs, I just knew that there are many Blind people can solve Rubik's Cube, they using a braille stickers. They are addicted to Rubik's and they are really want to go to official competition. Their times about 3 - 15 minutes... nice to know that. Rubik's is for everyone in this World.

Is it possible to organize an official Rubik's cube competition for Braille people... I love it, may be could be the First Braille Rubik's Cube Competition ?

Thank you


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## CubesOfTheWorld (Aug 2, 2010)

I thought that they can just go, and they have the exception of having the stickers feel different.


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## joey (Aug 2, 2010)

I believe they can just use their normal braille cubes, and it will be fine.


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## Crazycubemom (Aug 2, 2010)

They are about 25 Blind people or should I call them 25 Braille cubers or ... I don't know ahahahhah


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## Sakarie (Aug 2, 2010)

http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#competitions



> 8b)	An open competition is open to anyone.
> 8c)	A closed competition may be open (courtesy of WCA Board) to:
> 
> 
> ...



I'm afraid it's not possible to deny seeing people to compete, by the regular rules. But you can have an unofficial competition, where everyone have to use blindfold and braille-cube, unimportant if they're blind or not.

Or of course having an ordinary competition, but encourage the "Braille-ers" very much to come.


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## radmin (Aug 2, 2010)

I'd think it would be harder for the scrambler to verify the scramble. I love the idea though.


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## CubeNoobie (Aug 2, 2010)

This is an answer from the German translation:

2s3)	Teilnehmer mit Sehschwäche dürfen das Puzzle mit verschiedenen Oberflächen oder Braille Objekten inspizieren und lösen. Das Lösen muss entsprechend den Regeln für das Blindlösen vonstatten gehen. Die eigentlichen Blindlöse Kategorien müssen mit üblichen Aufklebern durchgeführt werden.

=

Competitors with visual impairment are allowed to inspect and use puzzles with different surfaces or braille objects. The Solving has to fit in to the rules for blindsovling. The usual Blindsolvingcategories has to be done with normal stickers.


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## Crazycubemom (Aug 2, 2010)

Yes indeed unimportant if they are blind or not but to them ( blind people ) it will be great if Braille Competition in Official just like you and me who always satisfied that we can solve with eyes, OH, Feet, Blindfold while we are not blind  

Btw normally in third country in this Earth, Disable people got not job and no Social support from Govt, but I bet they got same what we called Passion to solve Rubik's Cube.


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## Sakarie (Aug 2, 2010)

So the short answer is:

*Yes, you could do a competition where Braille-cubers is allowed.*

Because they always are, on every competition.


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## AbelBrata (Aug 2, 2010)

Sakarie said:


> I'm afraid it's not possible to deny seeing people to compete, by the regular rules. But you can have an unofficial competition, where *everyone have to use blindfold and braille-cube, unimportant if they're blind or not*.
> 
> Or of course having an ordinary competition, but encourage the "Braille-ers" very much to come.



Agree. Could we make it an official competition in the future?

Here's the photo of the cube:






Cubers from Jakarta Rubik's Cube Club met the blind cubers at Mitranetra (25 July 2010):


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## Carrot (Aug 2, 2010)

You could make a competition, where the prizing ceremony is focused on the Braille cubers, so for example you give a diploma for the winner of the event (according to the regulations), and then a prize for 1st, 2nd and 3rd Braille cuber for that event.. Then you can name the competition whatever you want. (Like something with Braille Open)


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## Ton (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi 


This is covered by the regulation
3d)	Puzzles must either have coloured stickers, coloured tiles, textures or painted colours.
3d1)	Puzzles using textures must have different colours on each face to aid in scrambling and judging.
3e)	The colours of puzzles must be solid, the same per colour, and clearly distinct from other colours.
3e1) The stickers/tiles/textures/paint may show an image (in one colour), as long as all stickers/tiles/textures/paint of a colour have the image and the same image.
3f)	Stickers/tiles/textures/paint must not be thicker than 1.5 mm, or the generally available thickness for non cube puzzles.

The above is a regular speedsolve

For the blindfold event:

B1d) Solving phase must be done on a puzzle with tiles, stickers or paint, without different textures or markings.

Addition:
The WCA Board is now checking my interpretation of the regulation about "texture"


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## Crazycubemom (Aug 2, 2010)

Odder said:


> You could make a competition, where the prizing ceremony is focused on the Braille cubers, so for example you give a diploma for the winner of the event (according to the regulations), and then a prize for 1st, 2nd and 3rd Braille cuber for that event.. Then you can name the competition whatever you want. (Like something with Braille Open)




Ton just asked for a dispensation at WCA Board to split the first round in 2 for 3x3x3 speed first round over different days. Friday 29th October 2010 I am planning to start with braille cubers in the afternoon, so they can go back to their home early with a BIG Smile . We like to give this group a change ....in the regular first round it will not for in the schedule. The final result will be listed in the regular first round, for this dispensation is needed.


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## Carrot (Aug 2, 2010)

Crazycubemom said:


> Odder said:
> 
> 
> > You could make a competition, where the prizing ceremony is focused on the Braille cubers, so for example you give a diploma for the winner of the event (according to the regulations), and then a prize for 1st, 2nd and 3rd Braille cuber for that event.. Then you can name the competition whatever you want. (Like something with Braille Open)
> ...



This sounds excellent  

I was just giving you an "emergency" solution, just to show that it indeed isn't impossible.


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## Crazycubemom (Aug 3, 2010)

I hope the WCA Board won't make it a hard time for these 'special' cubers ( visual impaired and blind cubers).

Use your heart.


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## qqwref (Aug 3, 2010)

So, wait, you want a special event where you are only allowed to solve the cube by touch? While this would be possible, I don't think it would be very popular, and anyone who's tried to organize a competition with every event will tell you we have enough of them already. Besides, if someone wanted to compete in this event, where would they find cubes with different textures or shapes? It doesn't seem obvious where one would buy such a cube. I don't consider Braille a good solution because it is much, much faster to feel a texture or shape than to read a word.

If you want to allow your blind friends to compete, you should just encourage them to come to a normal competition. As others have said, without a specialized touch-only event, blind people are not normally excluded, and there is no way to exclude seeing people. I don't think the current regulations are biased against blind cubers.


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## Zarxrax (Aug 3, 2010)

It could be cool if there could be a special event for braille stickered cubes. Not just for blind cubers, but for anyone.
Why?
It just sounds fun!


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## AbelBrata (Aug 3, 2010)

Zarxrax said:


> It could be cool if there could be a special event for braille stickered cubes. Not just for blind cubers, but for anyone.
> Why?
> It just sounds fun!



Yeah... I have tried. It' not very hard... anyone can leard to solve it. And it's really cool


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## Ton (Aug 3, 2010)

qqwref said:


> So, wait, you want a special event where you are only allowed to solve the cube by touch? While this would be possible, I don't think it would be very popular, and anyone who's tried to organize a competition with every event will tell you we have enough of them already. Besides, if someone wanted to compete in this event, where would they find cubes with different textures or shapes? It doesn't seem obvious where one would buy such a cube. I don't consider Braille a good solution because it is much, much faster to feel a texture or shape than to read a word.
> 
> If you want to allow your blind friends to compete, you should just encourage them to come to a normal competition. As others have said, without a specialized touch-only event, blind people are not normally excluded, and there is no way to exclude seeing people. I don't think the current regulations are biased against blind cubers.


Agree, It is now under discussion at the WCA Board, I like to see the blind and visual impaired compete in a regular speedsolve, not some special event. I gave the WCA Board a difficult request
My goal is a regulation where the blind or visual impaired can use what ever their abilities to see as they are used to in their daily live

There are multiple options to consider by the WCA Board, so the board needs some time to discuss and investigate this.


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## nickvu2 (Aug 3, 2010)

@AbelBrata: Beautiful photos; thank you so much for sharing these =)


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## AbelBrata (Aug 5, 2010)

nickvu2 said:


> @AbelBrata: Beautiful photos; thank you so much for sharing these =)



Thanks for your appreaciation to these people
The population of blind cuber is now growing in Indonesia as my book has been translated into braille to teach them cubing.


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## Ton (Aug 6, 2010)

AbelBrata said:


> nickvu2 said:
> 
> 
> > @AbelBrata: Beautiful photos; thank you so much for sharing these =)
> ...



I will push and think about new WCA regulation to embrace these cubers in an official speedcube event. The WCA board is open for discussion, I will give them my advice but I will need some information from you. I will send you a personal mail for my part as input for the WCA board.


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## AbelBrata (Aug 6, 2010)

Ton said:


> AbelBrata said:
> 
> 
> > nickvu2 said:
> ...



Wow great! My email is abelbrata[at]gmail[dot]com
Thanks Ton


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## musicninja17 (Aug 6, 2010)

Anyone ever made a textured cube? I find solving in complete darkness is an exhillarating challenge.


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## Lars Petrus (Aug 6, 2010)

I think you should just organize it "unofficially" at the competition. I think the normal path for any new event is to first run it "unofficially" a few times to figure out how to best organize it, if it will be popular, etc.

As far as I understand the only thing being "unofficial" means is that the WCA won't record the results, and the winner will not be an "official" world record holder. You can still hand out prizes and so on.


I have long suspected that blind people will dominate BLD once they get into it.


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## qqwref (Aug 6, 2010)

Lars Petrus said:


> I have long suspected that blind people will dominate BLD once they get into it.



Do you think so? I disagree. Execution will be equally difficult, and in memorization you can only really touch one piece at a time - but this is not necessarily a disadvantage if you use a freestyle method and don't have to retrace your steps. So I think a blind person could be very fast at BLD (sub-40 I mean), but it doesn't seem like it would be any easier than for a sighted person to get those times. I don't think a blind person will ever be good (by community standards) at speedsolving, though.


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## Lars Petrus (Aug 6, 2010)

Sure, memorization does have extra challenges for the non seeing.

My reasoning is that people who spend all their lives "in the dark" should be much more suited to solving based on a mental model than the rest of us.

Just speculation at this point, of course.


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## Ton (Aug 6, 2010)

Lars Petrus said:


> I think you should just organize it "unofficially" at the competition. I think the normal path for any new event is to first run it "unofficially" a few times to figure out how to best organize it, if it will be popular, etc.
> 
> As far as I understand the only thing being "unofficial" means is that the WCA won't record the results, and the winner will not be an "official" world record holder. You can still hand out prizes and so on.
> 
> ...



Well I disagree, we should allow anyone to compete in a speedcubing event and have fun. I will set my goal to it to make a proposal for a new WCA regulation I do not want to create a new event .... Which need your approach ..


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## Tim Major (Aug 10, 2010)

Haven't seen it posted buuut....

http://cube4you.com/cube4you-blind-...e-p-225.html?zenid=ed48oti2d4gjl7ob5i2t6jqsn4

I think different textures would go better though, rather than different braile letters. Or like, Xs for a face, Os for a face, dots for a face, /// for a face, that type of thing.


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## Rinfiyks (Aug 10, 2010)

musicninja17 said:


> Anyone ever made a textured cube? I find solving in complete darkness is an exhillarating challenge.



I think a textured cube would be more fun to solve than a Braille cube.
I don't know of 6 distinguishable textures you could have though.
Metal, carpet, silk, rubber...?


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## Lars Petrus (Aug 11, 2010)

Ton said:


> Lars Petrus said:
> 
> 
> > I think you should just organize it "unofficially" at the competition. I think the normal path for any new event is to first run it "unofficially" a few times to figure out how to best organize it, if it will be popular, etc.
> ...



Oh, you're saying you want blind people to be able to compete in the regular event? I didn't realize that was the goal here.

That makes sense, but I would still be interested in seeing (sorry...) this as a separate event.


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## Billbowser (Aug 12, 2010)

I have meet the blind cuber at Jogjakarta,he can solve 3x3 and 2x2.I think,blind cubers are allowed to participate the official Competition if the time limit of the competition are at 15 minutes with the format best of 2.Because,if the format is average of 5,it can be a half day for the 3x3 competition
that's my opinionfor respecting the blind cuber.


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## Ton (Aug 15, 2010)

Lars Petrus said:


> Ton said:
> 
> 
> > Lars Petrus said:
> ...



Well do not feel sorry, I am in discussion with the WCA board to define regulations within the regular speed event and propose a new event.... so it may end up both ways...And in the same time regulate a WCA endorsed Symbol cube...


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## Sakarie (Aug 16, 2010)

Billbowser said:


> I have meet the blind cuber at Jogjakarta,he can solve 3x3 and 2x2.I think,blind cubers are allowed to participate the official Competition if the time limit of the competition are at 15 minutes with the format best of 2.Because,if the format is average of 5,it can be a half day for the 3x3 competition
> that's my opinionfor respecting the blind cuber.



Unfortunately, your opinion isn't what the WCA-rules say, so you're not allowed to discriminate the blind, no matter how much you want to.


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## Gavin (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't think you can exclude a particular group of people from competition (In this case people who are not blind) But I assume the blind cubers can compete with everyone else.


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## Bryan (Aug 16, 2010)

Sakarie said:


> Billbowser said:
> 
> 
> > I have meet the blind cuber at Jogjakarta,he can solve 3x3 and 2x2.I think,blind cubers are allowed to participate the official Competition if the time limit of the competition are at 15 minutes with the format best of 2.Because,if the format is average of 5,it can be a half day for the 3x3 competition
> ...



He's not discriminating against the blind, he's just saying that you may want to make sure you have limits for the event. If a sighted person can solve in 15 minutes, they're going to get DNF's at 10 minutes, and if I knew I'd have a bunch of people that took 15 minutes to solve, I'd make sure I'd setup to be a combined round so that they would be able to compete a little bit, but not use up the whole competition.


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## maggot (Aug 17, 2010)

how about letting them participate in BLD events? where the scramble cube is braille and they are allowed to inspect as part of the time, then they can move onto a cube with no braille and solve it just as a BLD solve? so, 2 cubes with same scramble and orientation, inspection on one cube and solve on another. is this possible?


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## Cyrus C. (Aug 17, 2010)

maggot said:


> how about letting them participate in BLD events? where the scramble cube is braille and they are allowed to inspect as part of the time, then they can move onto a cube with no braille and solve it just as a BLD solve? so, 2 cubes with same scramble and orientation, inspection on one cube and solve on another. is this possible?



It's in the WCA regulations.


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## Joker (Aug 17, 2010)

I think an OFFICIAL comp for Braille only people (that are blind) would be good. Because if they go to normal comps with a disadvantage of not seeing te stickers/worse recognization of stickers, they would get worse times, and probably some might be a little ashamed of their times. I mean this in no offence, of course. But yeah, blind or not, they can go to any comp (following nationality rules).


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## Sakarie (Aug 17, 2010)

Bryan said:


> Sakarie said:
> 
> 
> > Billbowser said:
> ...



He doesn't? 'Cause in my head it sounds that in his opinion, blind people shouldn't be allowed to attend a 3x3 round that does an average of 5. Wouldn't that be discriminating?

Of course you should be allowed to have a combined round, but that should be based on time, not whether you're seeing or not. (Which I'm pretty sure you actually think, but that's not how Billbowser said.)


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## riffz (Aug 18, 2010)

Sakarie said:


> Bryan said:
> 
> 
> > Sakarie said:
> ...



I can see his point now. It's only about as discriminatory as setting a cut-off that competitors must beat within their first 2 solves or they cannot finish the average. It's very necessary at some competitions.

I agree with the bolded part of your statement. If they can solve the cube quickly then it would be silly to deny them an average of 5. However I also think that any cutoff should be raised with regards to a blind competitor if at all possible.


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## Alcuber (Oct 9, 2010)

Crazycubemom said:


> I hope the WCA Board won't make it a hard time for these 'special' cubers ( visual impaired and blind cubers).
> 
> Use your heart.


 
Does that meaan i can go


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## KboyForeverB (Oct 9, 2010)

Alcuber said:


> Does that meaan i can go (i'm visually impaired)


 
you can see well enough right? you do cube, went to three official comps, but maybe you could try own the VI comps,


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## Alcuber (Oct 9, 2010)

Of course i can see wll enough but i could easily get the VI WR


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## qqwref (Oct 9, 2010)

There is no point in keeping track of a "visually impaired" WR unless you only allow people who are pretty much completely blind. As a demonstration, here's a non-rolling avg5 with glasses off:
14.73, 14.77, (13.82), (14.89), 14.41 => 14.64
Keep in mind, without glasses I'm incredibly nearsighted, to the point where I had to put my glasses on between solves so I could see what time I got (never mind seeing the scramble!). Point is, a little vision is enough.

I welcome blind or nearly blind people to compete in competitions, but as I've said before, I don't think they should be given special treatment beyond allowing them to use textured puzzles. I don't think speedcubing rankings should be segregated in any way, whether it be by gender, age, disability, or anything else (except country, since I know some people care a lot about that).


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## Alcuber (Oct 9, 2010)

qqwref said:


> There is no point in keeping track of a "visually impaired" WR unless you only allow people who are pretty much completely blind. As a demonstration, here's a non-rolling avg5 with glasses off:
> 14.73, 14.77, (13.82), (14.89), 14.41 => 14.64
> Keep in mind, without glasses I'm incredibly nearsighted, to the point where I had to put my glasses on between solves so I could see what time I got (never mind seeing the scramble!). Point is, a little vision is enough.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_impairment


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