# Megaminx/MK/Gigaminx BLD Thread



## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jul 7, 2013)

Hi guys, thought I would start a thread for megaminx and bigger BLD discussion (what little there is), starting with my tutorial. As of starting this I only have part 1, but I'll post the rest here when I make it. I'll do my best to answer any questions here about the subject, both about the tutorials and other general questions.

My tutorials:
Part 1: memo
Part 2: execution
Part 3: tracking
Part 4: other stuff (coming soon)
Part 5: wings
Parts 6+: other MK/giga (coming soon)

Hope to spark some interest in this as I think it's pretty fun .

Matt


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## Username (Jul 7, 2013)

I've always wanted to do megaBLD, and I will start practicing now


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## etshy (Jul 7, 2013)

This is the same lettering schema as mine  except I use arabic instead of greek and I start numbering from 1 not 0 
I can't wait to get a success 
Great tutorial Matt  

@username : you should try it , it's very challenging and so much fun ( although I still didn't get a success  )


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## emolover (Jul 7, 2013)

Username said:


> I've always wanted to do megaBLD, and I will start practicing now



I also have a memo tutorial.


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## A Leman (Jul 7, 2013)

I still don't understand how you make images out of those letters anymore than I did a while ago, but I guess that is ok. could you tell me what you would memo

6B H9 (alpha)3 (beta)w 45 (gamma)(delta)? That is not to much but it covers combinations and I would find it insightful. Also, I really like this thread. The challenge is difficult but I think many more people are capable of doing it than there are now. Also, I have been changing and refining my execution so I will hopefully have a faster success sometime soon.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jul 8, 2013)

Nice to see some responses, and I've not even posted a full tutorial yet!


A Leman said:


> I still don't understand how you make images out of those letters anymore than I did a while ago, but I guess that is ok. could you tell me what you would memo
> 
> 6B H9 (alpha)3 (beta)w 45 (gamma)(delta)?



I've posted this before, but last time I tried to find it I couldn't so here it is again. It's almost certainly inferior to standard letter pairs in terms of speed, but I like it and it gives me the flexibility to go do megaBLD with minimal fuss, and it's also less to learn.

I make images with 4 characters at a time, with english letters (26), greek letters (24), and digits (10). I have a 4*60 'items' in my memo scheme, one for each character in each position. The first character gives me the main object (mostly Pokemon), the second gives some action for it to do, the third is for weather or a similar effect, and the fourth is another object in the image. I take these components and combine them.

After using it for a while I've had to relax the criteria for each to allow for better images, and a lot of components have some degree of flexibility in how I apply them.

As an example from above, 6BH9 is scizor [6] (a Pokemon) bowling * in hail [H], and the ball hits a bully [9] (not in the usual sense, it's an enemy in Super Mario 64 ...). Note that while most components started off being related to the letter in some way, it's easy to not follow this rule when changing small amounts of the system and just learning them since you can just think of good things to use and you don't have to worry about making them fit. I like using images and routes from computer games as it allows for exaggerated slapstick images which I find comfortable.

I'll also take a note of this description in case anyone asks again.*


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jul 9, 2013)

OP updated with execution video.


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## A Leman (Jul 9, 2013)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> Nice to see some responses, and I've not even posted a full tutorial yet!
> 
> 
> I've posted this before, but last time I tried to find it I couldn't so here it is again. It's almost certainly inferior to standard letter pairs in terms of speed, but I like it and it gives me the flexibility to go do megaBLD with minimal fuss, and it's also less to learn.
> ...



This is a very interesting method and like the PAO a lot of people use for cards with weather added to make the system even in number like letter pairs. I can see how with a lot of practice it would be almost/about as fast as letter pairs for cubes and It would definitely be good for Megaminx as well to expand a single letter system like that. I was under the false impression that you were using 3600 unique pair images which you would make up on the fly.(hence why I put the different combinations of letter type and was confused). Thank you for sharing.


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## etshy (Jul 9, 2013)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> OP updated with execution video.



Your 2 cycle method is easier than the one I use , using the 3 Cycle Alg and its inverse makes setup moves easier than mine , because I have to deal with 4 edges that change position with each target , so I don't have that much freedom , although X-PLL is a very easy alg to execute but the fact that I have 2 slave buffers is really not that good , but nevertheless I think that my setup moves are almost very good at this stage . 

I'm actually very surprised that you can have a 12 mins execution with a 2 cycle method , I can barely get a 25 mins execution 
but I have a question concerning the other 2 methods , you said that one of them could be used on Gigaminx , I never tried or thought about how to do wings or centers on MK or gigaminx , but does a 2 cycle method can be used on those too ? 

Once I get a success I will be making a video showing my setup moves on the method that I used , may be it will help the people who are interested in different methods


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jul 10, 2013)

etshy said:


> I'm actually very surprised that you can have a 12 mins execution with a 2 cycle method , I can barely get a 25 mins execution
> but I have a question concerning the other 2 methods , you said that one of them could be used on Gigaminx , I never tried or thought about how to do wings or centers on MK or gigaminx , but does a 2 cycle method can be used on those too ?



My execution is still slow, sub-10 execution is easily possibly with my method. With a faster execution method in the hands of a fast BLDer, I'd say sub-10 solves are possible. I'd stick with 2-cycles anyway, 3-cycles are harder on megaminx.
As for giga, it's just the algs I was talking about, the <R,U> 3-cycle doesn't work on giga, the other two do, and it's not too difficult to apply them. The idea of the methods are identical, just the algs and setups are different. I would use the second of the three edge cycles I showed if I tried gigaBLD.


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## TheNextFeliks (Jul 10, 2013)

Does mega compare better to 4x4 or 5x5 bld?


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## etshy (Jul 10, 2013)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> My execution is still slow, sub-10 execution is easily possibly with my method. With a faster execution method in the hands of a fast BLDer, I'd say sub-10 solves are possible. I'd stick with 2-cycles anyway, 3-cycles are harder on megaminx.
> As for giga, it's just the algs I was talking about, the <R,U> 3-cycle doesn't work on giga, the other two do, and it's not too difficult to apply them. The idea of the methods are identical, just the algs and setups are different. I would use the second of the three edge cycles I showed if I tried gigaBLD.



I will stick to 2 cycles too on Mega , while ago I thought that no one can get decent times with it but you proved me wrong  so I will try work on my execution 

I won't attempt MK BLD any time soon but I will try these cycles on it ( when it arrives ) to just have an idea on how things works on it 

and I'm thinking of doing a tutorial on how I do 2 cycles , if anyone is interested 



TheNextFeliks said:


> Does mega compare better to 4x4 or 5x5 bld?



It actually depends on how you do it 

for memo , if you use 2 letter per target ( 1 image per target ) you will need approximately 50 images , which is almost as much as a 5BLD 
but if you use 1 letter per target , you will need only half of these images , which is something like a 4BLD 
but the main issue here is how to trace pieces while memoing , because you have 30 edges and 20 corners , so tracing for me is a lot harder than 5BLD

For execution , you really can't compare it to any of them because it's a totally different way of dealing with setup moves ,Faces,,etc , but the main problem with Megaminx is that it's VERY EASY to lose your orientation while solving , that's probably the reason of half of my DNFs


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## etshy (Jul 25, 2013)

does anyone have a better alg for X-PLL R' L' U2 L U R *y* R L U2' R' U' L' *y'* that doesn't have rotations ? I had a lot f DNFs because of forgetting to do the y' at the end 
I thought about replacing the y and y' with U and U' but still I might forget them


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jul 25, 2013)

etshy said:


> does anyone have a better alg for X-PLL R' L' U2 L U R *y* R L U2' R' U' L' *y'* that doesn't have rotations ? I had a lot f DNFs because of forgetting to do the y' at the end
> I thought about replacing the y and y' with U and U' but still I might forget them



Odd timing, I'm just uploading part 3 of my tutorial.

I'd use R U' R' U2 R U' R' U2' R' D' R U R' D U2' R U R' U R, but that's weird and there is probably a more common one. The one you have already is fine, you just need to be more careful if you're using it, and also doing U/U' instead of y/y' doesn't work.


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## etshy (Jul 25, 2013)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> Odd timing, I'm just uploading part 3 of my tutorial.
> 
> I'd use R U' R' U2 R U' R' U2' R' D' R U R' D U2' R U R' U R, but that's weird and there is probably a more common one. The one you have already is fine, you just need to be more careful if you're using it, and also doing U/U' instead of y/y' doesn't work.



that's a nice coincidence  

yeah I think I need to be more careful 
U/U' won't work , I just thought that the first part of the alg only damages the top layer , and obviously I was wrong


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jul 25, 2013)

Part 3 of my tutorial can be found here, OP also updated. Part 3 is tracking pieces during memo.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Aug 12, 2013)

Wings: memo + exec. Because I felt like it. (OP updated).


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## Jacck (Jun 3, 2016)

There seems to be a bit of interest in Megaminx bld (maybe Gigaminx bld, too) again, so I revive this thread.
I will repeat my short discription of the Gigaminx bld and a discussion with Roman and bobthegiraffemonkey first and than I will add a new post with a new, easy(?) concept for the Megaminx-edges. Since now I was solving the Megaminx-edges with X-perms, but I think, the new one is easier to learn.

But first the posts:


Jacck said:


> Thanks to all!
> It's a slowcuber method: not optimized for speed or movecount (therefore not many algs, not thinking over the entire cube, no extraordinary intuition), but optimized for success - even if it takes longer.
> 
> The most important thing is, I guess, that I solve (normally) only one cubie at the time and bring this one to the front with D+ and D- first, so I have quite easy setups. You could solve two cubies at the time, but you would have to think more while setting up (which is upsetting a Slowcuber).
> ...


And now the discussion:


Jacck said:


> What is your method and why is it so hard - memo, exe, setups?
> I do corners the same as with the Gigaminx:
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...omplishment-thread.3582/page-779#post-1170748
> and the edges mostly with X-Perms. I use 4 as buffer and 1 as target (and 2 and 5 as the "changing-pair") and:
> ...





Roman said:


> I use 3cycles as I already got used to them. Moreover, I think that "old Pochmann" on megaminx isn't much easier than 3cycles. I was thinking of a TuRBo method with learning a bunch of 3ELL algorithms, because I couldn't think of a way to perform pure edges comms on mega (there's no M moves possible). But then I asked Lilia for help, and she showed me edge-3cycle basics: ((L' R) F' (R' L)) changes only one element on the top layer. Instead of F' it could be F, F2, F'2. So a typical 3cycle looks like [L' R F R' L, U2] or [L' R2 F' R2' L, U]. And with corners, it's more or less obvious how to do commutators, they're the same as in 3x3. I will probably do a video with more detailed explanation of my method when I have my first success.
> Now the most difficult part is tracking pieces during setups, and understanding what layer I have to turn, because when I close my eyes I instantly forget what does the megaminx look like and what faces does it have!
> I will not give up, but I can't say how long will it take me to have my first successful solve.





bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> I think this is the way to go. Before, I used pseudo-2-cycles, but when I try megaBLD again (eventually, might be a year or two before I do it) I'll do it with 3-cycles. Pseudo 2-cycles make it much easier, but 3-cycles are practical enough that there's no good excuse to not do them to get really fast. The only problem is that 3-cycle setups are hard and I've not worked out the details yet (I'd rather figure it out myself in my own style rather than watch a tutorial for it).
> 
> Good luck Roman, I want to see what you can do with megaminx BLD.





Jacck said:


> Sorry, I don't really know the meaning of a 3-cycle or a pseudo-2-cycle. But the ((L' R) F' (R' L)) is the same I use for Gigaminx-midges only with a F2 in the middle (and it could be done as well for Megaminx-edges). I think, for a real 3-cyle I would have to put a second piece on the top-face, to solve two at the time, right? I just solve one at the time an my second top-edge is only a helper (is that a pseudo-2-cycle?).
> But the setups for a real second top-edge must be hard and I don't know, if you save much time and if you make it easy (by first bringing that one to the front with D+, then put it on Top, then D-, then setup for the other edge), you save many moves.
> 
> The advantage of solving only one edge at the time is, that you don’t have to think about difficult setups and you can solve really fluently. Okay: it is a slowcuber-method to get a success at all - and getting really fast needs more difficult ways. But is my method that slow? I memorize a 5bld in about 12 min and exe is about 10 min. That’s 300 % of a real good blindcuber, but with the Megaminx I am less than 150 % of the UWR.
> ...





bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> @Jacck 3-cycle is moving 3 pieces with an alg, usually solving 2 of them, it's what 3-style does which is what most top BLDers use on cubes. What I'm calling 'pseudo 2-cycles' is something like M2 or Old Pochmann, where you solve with 2-cycles (a single swap of pieces to solve one piece at a time, this seems to be what you use) except you can't do pure 2-cycles so there are side effects. I guess a lot of people just call this 2-cycles, but for some reason I prefer saying pseudo 2-cycles for megaminx, I guess since I use 3-cycles for it and it feels weird.
> 
> For gigaminx, one piece at a time for middle edges might be better, since the presence of wings means you have less freedom. I used <R,U> U-perms on megaminx for BLD, which is fine on megaminx but it doesn't work for gigaminx. The comms that you and Roman both described are probably the best option for gigaminx.
> 
> P.S. Someone should probably move this to the megaminx BLD thread.



And the Gigaminx:


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## Jacck (Jun 3, 2016)

*Slowcubers-Blind for Megaminx edges*

Only one alg for all your problems! And even better: it can be used for Gigaminx-midges, too!

The basic concept is to solve one edge at the time and bring it to the front first with D+ or D++ and so on. The first edge is solved with <alg>, the second with <alg'>. It is therefore very useful to memorize in pairs.

Shengshou color-sheme: white on top, upper half green in front, to the right red-blue-yellow-purple, lower half starting with brightyellow (under green and red) and to the right pink-brightgreen-orange-brightblue, grey bottom.

Memo is layer by layer counterclockwise (looked from above) starting top-front with 1 (white-green) and counterclockwise to 5 (white-purple). Next "layer" starts with 6 (purple-green), then 11 (brightblue-green), 16 (brightyellow-green), 21 (brightblue-brightyellow) and 26 (grey-brightyellow).

11 and 16 are in the same „horizontal layer“, but they need different setups move, so I take them as different „memo-layers“. Look at the basic concept: 16 (brightyellow-green) and 17 (pink-red) are the „same“, because I can bring the 17 with a D- to the front (at the place of the 16) - after that, they have the same setup.

Flipped edges: I add a 30, if the wing has to be flipped. But when is it flipped? This rule you can make by yourself. I have 1, 6, 11, 16 as not flipped, if green is in front (be careful: the green-red is number 7 and belongs to the red side!), 21 with brightblue on the left and 26 with the grey side down. The highest number is the 60: blue-grey.
Another, maybe better explanation: „the first color of a color-pairs (like I called them in the memo above) is the side, where you have to look at while memorizing“.
(Sorry, I have huge problems with the orientation and solve 3x3x3 bld with orientation first. I haven’t found the trick yet and so I don’t know, whether someone can understand my explanations - just find it out by yourself!)

*The alg* (found it in this forum):

L' R F2' L R' U' L' R F2 L R' U

and its inverse:

U' L' R F2' L R' U L' R F2 L R'

The buffer is 5 (white-purple), the target 16 (brightyellow-green) and the helper 1 (white-green).

If you have the pieces-pair brightblue-brightyellow,blue-red (21,38), it goes like this:
setup21 alg setup21' setup38 alg' setup38'

Exception: if a top-edge is involved, you will take this as the helper and will only need one alg and it is used as a normal commutator (see below).

Here are my setups:
6: U2' F2' U2
36: D+ U2' F U2
11: D+ DL'
41: DR DL
16: F5 
46: D' DL2 DR
21: D+ DR2'
51: DR
26: D- DL' DR
56: DL2
All the others need only some D+ before and some D- afterwards.

Example for a top-edge: pair (3,53):
D-- (bring 53 to front, to 51)
DR (setup for 51)
U' (bring buffer to 1)
L' R F2' L R' (first half of alg)
U2' (bring the 3 to 1 - it is now in position 4!)
L' R F2 L R' (second half of the alg)
U2' (bring 5 to 5 again)
DR' (setup' for 51)
D++ (bring 53 back to 53)

Example for a top-edge: pair (51,3):
DR (setup for 51)
U2 (bring 3 to 1)
L' R F2' L R' (first half of alg)
U2 (bring the buffer 5 to 1 - it is now in position 3!)
L' R F2 L R' (second half of the alg)
U (bring 5 to 5 again)
DR' (setup' for 51)

Ok, if both edges belong to the top (e.g. 2,3), you can give up this attempt … or bring the 2 to 16 with U F2 U', then solve it like a 16,3 and do a U F2 U' to bring the 2 back.

A top-edge flipped?
Setup the other edge of the pair, then flip the top-edge without affecting the buffer 5 and the target 16. The easiest way for the 33 will be BR' R' and you will solve it then like a 2 (and don't forget to bring it back afterwards).

If you have a edge in place but flipped, e.g. 51, just solve 51,21 at the end.

Now look again at the alg: there is a U at the end and alg' begins with an U' (that is clear, because it is the inverse). You will only need this U and U', if one or both edges of the pair have setups that affect the top-face (only 6 and 36). Otherwise they cancel each other.

(Another idea for flipped top-edges: solve them without flipping and flip them at the end in pairs. The alg would be e.g.:
L F R' F' L' U2' R U R U' R2' U2 R
from https://sites.google.com/site/permuteram.../old-p-bld
But this doesn’t work for the Gigaminx. When I made that I hadn’t thought of the easy way I described above. I solved it at the end by bringing one edge to 16, executed the alg, flipped it, executed alg' and brought it back to the top).


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## Jacck (Jun 3, 2016)

OK, next would be a discription of the corners, but I think, most of you should get it with the explanation for the Gigaminx - if you were able to understand, what I have written


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## Roman (Jun 3, 2016)

Wow, there is a thread for it! I'm with you guys 
I am currently on my way to my first success, and then maybe I will try MK or Gigaminx. 
Somewhy I found megaminx BLD very interesting and challenging.


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## Jacck (Jun 3, 2016)

*Slowcubers-Blind for Megaminx corners*

There is no specific alg, you just solve a corner with an U' and the next with an U. Its a bit like U2 for 4x4x4-centers.

And again: it works perfect with the Gigaminx-corners, too!

Memo (the same idea as with the edges):
Corners from 1 (white-green-purple) to 5 (white-purple-yellow) on Top, next "layer" 6 (green-brightblue-purple) to 10 (purple-orange-yellow), then 11 (green-brightyellow-brightblue) to 15 and 16 (grey-brightblue-brightyellow-brightblue) to 20 on bottomside. If it has to be twisted clockwise, I add 20, for counterclockwise 40.
"Orientated" corners are with white side up or grey side down or on the front of the related front-face (look at the first color in the triples, this is the oriented side).
With new cycles I try to bring in the Top-Corners with the correct orientation, the other Top-corners are orientated at the end.

Example for pair 20,13:
setup20 U' setup20' setup13 U setup13'

Buffer is 1 and the helper is 2 (??? no target??? I think the target is changing, just look at the setups and the examples and you’ll find it out!)

setups (DL is brightblue face, DR is brightyellow face):
6: D+ R' DR' R (green-brightblue-purple)
26: DL R' DR R (brightblue-purple-green)
46: DL DR R' DR' R (purple-green-brightblue)
11: DR R' DR' R (green-brightyellow-brightblue)
31: DL R' DR2 R
51: R' DR R
16: R' DR2 R
36: F DR2 F'
56: D+ R' DR2' R
All the others need only some D+ before and some D- afterwards.

example pair 33,20 (brightgreen-pink-blue,grey-orange-brightblue):
D-- (bring 33 to front, to 31)
DL R' DR2 R (setup for 31)
U'
R' DR2' R DL' (setup' for 31)
D++ (bring back 33 to 33)
D+ (bring 20 to front, to 16)
R' DR2 R (setup for 16)
U
R' DR2 R (setup' for 16)
D- (bring back 20 to 20)

With a top-edge in a pair it is reduced to a normal commutator. Just setup the other corner and take the top-corner as „helper“.

Don’t forget the misorientated top-corners at the end! Just take R F' R' F and so on.


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## Hssandwich (Jun 3, 2016)

I have finished planning my Megabld corners method (kinda OP for megaminx). My memo method is done with one pair per sticker. I use A+A-Z for the first 26 targets, then E + A-Z for the next 26. I use emoticons for the remaining 5.

Method:


Spoiler



*Corners:*
Memo clockwise round each face and clockwise round the puzzle.
General rule of thumb: buffer is ULB and set up to RFD and do: R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R then for your next pair do the alg twice/ inverted.
My orientation: grey top, light green front
A + letter:
Grey: A—see below// B—R2 rfD'// C—F // D— F R'
Orange: E— F2 //F—lfD rfD // G—lfD2 F' // H— blD lfD F2'
L.Green: I—F2' rfD // J— F2 rfD // K— F rfD // L— rfD // M— F' rfD
PANK: N—R' // O—R2' // P— R2 // Q—R // R— done
Cream: S—R' F // T—see below // U— urB rfD' R2 // V—rbD' R2 // W—rbD' R
L.Blue: X—see below // Y—lbD lfD2 F' // Z—blD2 lfD F2'
E+ letter: 
L.Blue: A—bD' urD rfD' R2
Yellow: B—F2' // C—lfD' F2' // D—lfD2' F2' // E—lfD2 F2' // F—lfD F2'
D.Blue: G— rfD' F' // H—rfD2' F' // I— rfD2 F' // J—rfD F' // K—F'
Red: L—rbD' rfD' // M—rbD2' rfD' // N— rbD2 rfD' // O—rbD rfD' // P—rfD'
D.Green: Q—dB' rbD2' R//R—B2' rbD2' R//S—dB2 rbD2' R//T—dB rbD2' R// U—rbD2' R
Purple: V—blD lfD2 rfD//W—lfD2 rfD//X—blD' lfD2 rfD//Y—blD2' lfD2 rfD// Z—blD2 lfD2 rfD
White: —lfD' F' // —D' lfD' F' // :/—D2' lfD' F' // —D2 lfD' F' // ^-^—D lfD' F'
Special corners:
xx AA-skip AA // CREATES PARITY
AA xx-setup xx + do alg twice // CREATES PARITY
xx AX- setup xx + U' R' rfD' R U L U2' L lD L' U2 L lD' L2' U' R' rfD R U
AX xx- setup xx + U' R' rfD' R U L2 lD L' U2 L lD' L' U2' L' U' R' rfD R U
xx AT- setup xx + R2 U R U' lB' U R' U' lB R2'
AT xx- setup xx + R2 lB' U R U' lB U R' U' R2'


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## Jacck (Jun 4, 2016)

Nice to see, that there is really going on something! And Roman did it today in his 2nd attempt!



Hssandwich said:


> General rule of thumb: buffer is ULB and set up to RFD and do: R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R then for your next pair do the alg twice/ inverted.


Just to make it clear: with "next pair" you mean your next letterpair (one corner), so you solve as me only one cubie at the time?

And I would have another idea for your alg: U2 R' rfD' R U R' rfD R U2 (it doesn't affect the edges, but I think it is the same for the corners).

Interesting for me: I guess my method for corners could be more obvious, if I would "declare" RFD as the target. There would be different and a bit more setup-moves, ok. At the moment, I'm working with many targets.

An idea for using letters: If I had to memo the Megaminx-corners with letters, I would take AA to AE for the top-layer, BA to BE for the 2nd layer, CA to CE for the 3rd and so on. Twisted corners would have AI to AM and AQ to AU (the gap of 8 should be familiar for 3x3x3-bld-cubers). Since you will need 2 letters for one cubie, you can pack information about where it is and how it is orientated in that letter pair.


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## Jacck (Jun 4, 2016)

@Roman:
Watching your video I think I could see, that you bring one edge to the top and then make a 3-cycle? So you don't use absolut free 3-cycles (which would be much harder)? 
I'll have to think about that especially with my edges in the second layer (6-10 and 36 to 40). Their setups are quite long and bringing them up should be easy and would not disturb very much.


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## Roman (Jun 4, 2016)

Jacck said:


> @Roman:
> Watching your video I think I could see, that you bring one edge to the top and then make a 3-cycle? So you don't use absolut free 3-cycles (which would be much harder)?
> I'll have to think about that especially with my edges in the second layer (6-10 and 36 to 40). Their setups are quite long and bringing them up should be easy and would not disturb very much.



My method: every time I need to solve next two edges, I bring one of them (any) to the top and another to one of four helper positions. Then I do a pure commutator and undo setups. All these commutators have this structure: UF buffer and the element on top are interchangable by moving the U layer, and a piece from the helper position can be moved to the buffer by doing (L' R ? L R'), where '?' is F', F, F2' or F2 - thus, a four helper positions. Examples: (U L' R F' R' L U' L' R F R' L); (U2' L' R F2 R' L U2 L' R F2' R' L) and so on


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## Hssandwich (Jun 4, 2016)

Jacck said:


> Nice to see, that there is really going on something! And Roman did it today in his 2nd attempt!
> 
> 
> Just to make it clear: with "next pair" you mean your next letterpair (one corner), so you solve as me only one cubie at the time?
> ...


By next pair I mean the next piece, I'll clarify that in my post. I'll probably switch to your alg because it doesn't create 'parity' and it is super simple to reverse.

I think that the memo system that you are talking about was used by Dan Sarnelli in his megaminx blind attempts, so it definitely works.


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## Jacck (Jun 4, 2016)

@Roman: That is a good way, I'll have to try it. I was afraid, that setting up the first edge could disturb the other one. But if you take either the first or the second, the most pairs should go without problems, especially for someone,who is used to commutators (I'm just beginning to lern them). And having 4 helpers can be very fast, too (but it is no slowcuber method anymore). 

@Hssandwich: I haven't understood your parity-problem yet, cause there is no real parity on the Megaminx.
But another idea: if you take UFL as buffer and URF as "helper" the alg would be shorter with R' rfD' R U' R' rfD R U and you would have nearly the same as I do it. The difference would only be the way to setup (I prefer the D+ and D-, but yours are a bit shorter) and that I have more targets. But in the end, both are good solutions for only solving an edge at the time: quite easy to learn, a bit more moves, but very intuitiv - that's what I call slowcubers-style


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## Hssandwich (Jun 4, 2016)

Jacck said:


> @Hssandwich: I haven't understood your parity-problem yet, cause there is no real parity on the Megaminx.


what I meant by parity was a 3 cycle of edges caused by only requiring to do the alg once or the inverse once. I should have just said a U-perm or an edge cycle but my wording was a little unclear.


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## Jacck (Jun 27, 2016)

Hmmm, finally had a success again in 28:06.14, memo 15:25 (unconcentrated memo of the corners >8min).

I solved the edges again with the X-perms, see https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/blindfold-failures-thread.4909/page-287#post-1174512
Only when the top-edges 2 and 5 (the side-buffers) where involved, I solved the pair with the L' R F2' L R' U' L' R F2 L R' U thing.

I don't know exactly why, but I feel more comfortable with the X-perms. Maybe I had more attempts with the X-perms, but I did the other way also quite a few times. So I think the main reason is, that there ist a bit less of thinking - and that fits better to my brain, especially, when I'm a bit tired like now.


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## Jacck (Jul 20, 2016)

After 5 DNF, Megaminx bld in 
20:32.94, memo 10 min, pb by more than 1:30 min.
Solved the edges like written in the last thread and was a bit lucky, that the 5 was orientated right and that I could start a new cycle for the 2, so I could bring it in orientated right, too.

video will be posted in the 6x6-blind-rankings soon.


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## Jacck (Oct 23, 2016)

Triple post, but this should be here, too:

Masterkilominx blind:
3:13:21.50, memo 1:20:55 ----- EDIT: It was only 2:13:21.50 
First success in third attempt - and I think, that ist the number of attempts, too, that ever have been made worldwide = UWR


Spoiler: video


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## Dom (Nov 11, 2016)

Perhaps y'all could help me understand something. 

I am a military instructor and one of my students recently just blew my mind. He solves the 3x3 using the beginner's method and it takes him a few minutes to do. He only has a Rubik's brand cube, so he doesn't know any finger tricks, but he can do blindfolded solves faster than he can unblindfolded. But that's not the strange part. He had never seen a Megaminx before, but I left one in the classroom after class one day and he stayed for about an hour and figured out how to solve it. The very next day he did a blindfolded solve on it in about 3 minutes. Is this more common than I think?


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## Cale S (Nov 11, 2016)

Dom said:


> The very next day he did a blindfolded solve on it in about 3 minutes. Is this more common than I think?



Well the UWR for Mega BLD is over 16 minutes so...


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## Dom (Nov 11, 2016)

Cale S said:


> Well the UWR for Mega BLD is over 16 minutes so...


I see. 16 minutes...That includes the inspection, right?


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## Dom (Nov 11, 2016)

Cale S said:


> Well the UWR for Mega BLD is over 16 minutes so...


My student inspected for 10 minutes and then solved it in about 3. Hopefully I'll post a video soon.


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## Jacck (Nov 11, 2016)

The video would be very interesting!
Because here is the unofficial ranking:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/6x6-blindfolded-rankings-thread.41968/
and even Liliya managed only a memotime of 9 min. So 10 min would be extremely good for a beginner, because this needs to know the color-sheme (ok, I think, that our fastest blindfolders could do it in less than 5 min - but only with long practice).
And the best executiontime till now was over 7 min. 3 min would be really awesome:
corners can be done two with about 12 moves and you will have maybe 9 pairs, so these are 108 turns;
edges will need more moves, because you cannot use normal 8-move-commutators, so you will need perhaps 20 moves per pair. 14 pairs will be 280 turns, with the corners 388 turns and this in 3 min?
If your student is Yu Da-Hyun, this might be possible, but she definitely saw a Megaminx before 

So we'll have to wait for the video, and if he really has done it, we should have his name and country for the ranking.

But one thing to the 3x3x3: with advanced blindfold technique you have less turns as with the beginners method. So this is possible, but normally, someone who knows this blindfold techniques does know a bit more than the beginners method.
And yes: the Megaminx can be solved with the beginners method (ok, on the last layer, you have to experiment and use the algs a bit different, but it can be done).


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## Jacck (Dec 3, 2016)

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/blindfold-accomplishment-thread.3582/page-103#post-178728
This happened in May 2009 and I thought it was time for a next
Pyraminx Crystal blind
49:49.17, memo 17:55 min 
Did it with a QJ, which was the main challenge.


Spoiler: video










Haven't found any trace, that someone else has done it yet, so I claim place 2 worldwide for me 
Memo was:
edges: 38,22 1,27 36,35 37,18 9,41 26,55 10,2 58,33 14,21 13,17 49,60 20,54 23,15 59,16 42,16
corners: 12,13 2,35 37,44 60,19 26,34 8,43 33,11 29,18 56,51 10/30
and I solved it with this system (colors as actual WCA megaminx-sheme, white on top, green in front):

edges:
buffer LB-U (yellow-white), target UF (white-green), helper RB-U (blue-white)
setup1 L R’ L’ R setup1’ setup2 R’ L R L’ setup2’
L is yellow, R is red
OK, the helper (it was flipped, too) needs a bit of thinking, but can be done with half of the alg. And flipping a edge goes with solving it first normal and then flipped.

corners:
Found probably the same as Istvan (8-mover repeated 7 times), but this seemed too long for a QJ.
Then I found a 8-mover, which seemed to be interesting:
R F’ R’ F RD F RD’ F’
it cycles 3 corners and 2*3 edges. My idea was to "eliminate" the edges-cycles after each corners-cycle. Before actual doing this, I found Stefan’s 14-mover in a video
RB L’ UBR’ DFL y L RB’ U’ RB L’ UBR DFL’ y' L RB’ U
which I used in my first attempt, but I couldn’t control the QJ enough when there were lock-ups and stuff.

So I thought again about my 8-mover, put it on top and searched for insertions for the undo-the-edge-cycles. Result:
F R F’ R’ U’ R’ L’ R L U FDR FDL R’ FDL’ FDR’ R
buffer is UFL, target is F-DR-DL, helper is URF
So it is: setup1 alg setup1’ setup2 alg’ setup2’
If it was easy, I put one corner of the next pair in URF and had to do the alg only once for the pair.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Dec 3, 2016)

Impressive! Pyraminx crystal BLD seems awful because of the corners. I am curious to try to find my own corner alg(s) now though, but I would never want to actually attempt it.


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## Jacck (Dec 3, 2016)

Stefan's alg is really good, if you have a non-lock-up-and-nearly-pop-out-all-the-time Pyraminx Crystal. The y's in my notation aren't necessary, just look how he performs it: 



Don't think, that there could be something better.

OK, the corners are not that nice, but the edges are easy. Opposite to a Megaminx: it has easy corners and harder edges.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Dec 3, 2016)

Jacck said:


> OK, the corners are not that nice, but the edges are easy. Opposite to a Megaminx: it has easy corners and harder edges.


I'm aware of that, might do an edges-only BLD solve eventually since edges and corners don't interect. I've got a Meffert's which I've put very little effort into, could be good with some work but not sure, and I would want to resticker it to my colour scheme before I used it.

Actually I got a spare in white plastic too with the intention to resell it since I thought numbers would be limited, because I hadn't tried that before and I wanted to give it a go, then QJ knocked it off. Never bought a spare like that again and forgot to try selling it. Anyone looking for a pyraminx crystal to solve BLD?


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## biscuit (Dec 3, 2016)

So Examinx will be coming out soon guys...


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## TheGrayCuber (May 15, 2017)

I recently completed my first timed Megaminx BLD solve, and was invited to share my method here.

My execution is fairly standard: I use cycles of three for both corners and edges, with a buffer, slave buffer, and the piece to be solved. I alternate between clockwise and counterclock based on whether the piece is the first or second of the letter pair. 

My memo method is more unique. I split the cube into three sections: top + bottom face, the five faces adjacent to top, and the five faces adjacent to bottom. The pieces on top are lettered A-E, and the bottom are lettered F-J. The adjacent to top are lettered A-Y, as well as the adjacent to bottom. To differentiate between the groups, I give each a color. Top+bottom are yellow, adjacent to top are blue, and adjacent to bottom are red. This allows me to use normal letters pairs to memorize, and gives colors to the images, which makes them last better in long term memory. 

If a pair is blue, blue, the image is blue.
Red, red, is red.
Yellow, yellow, is yellow.
Blue, red, is purple.
Blue, yellow, is green.
Red, blue, is pink.
Red, yellow, is orange.
Yellow, blue, is black.
Yellow, red, is white.

For example, the sequence: blue d, red k, yellow g, blue p, will become a purple Donkey Kong eating black grapes. Another: red c, yellow c, blue f, blue y, will become a orange corn cob with a blue fly on it. 

This method works very well for me, and I hope others find it useful!


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## Jacck (May 15, 2017)

Really nice idea to use letterpairs on megaminx - as memo-space you need only one letter for each piece! Needs a bit more "translation" in the beginning, but yeah: can be efficient and fast really soon.
And please: give as an example for an edge-cycle and a corner-cycle


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (May 15, 2017)

Killernerd24 said:


> I recently completed my first timed Megaminx BLD solve, and was invited to share my method here. ...


Thanks for sharing, the execution seems basically the same as what I used to do, and the memo is very interesting. How fast was the solve?


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## Jacck (May 15, 2017)

quite good:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ed-rankings-thread.41968/page-12#post-1234380


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## TheGrayCuber (May 15, 2017)

Jacck said:


> And please: give as an example for an edge-cycle and a corner-cycle



For edges, I use UF as the buffer and UL as the slave, placing the third piece in UR. My U-perm is U2' R U R' U R' U' R2 U' R' U R' U R.
The other U-perm is R' U' R U' R U R2' U R U' R U' R ' U2.

For corners, I use UFR as my buffer and URBr as my slave, the third piece I put in RFDr and do a commutator.


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## Jacck (May 25, 2017)

Here's the way to Killernerd24 tutorial, which is really good:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/megaminx-blindfolded-tutorial.65085/


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## TheGrayCuber (Aug 2, 2017)

In my attempts to reach sub-10 on megaminx blind, I realized that it would be difficult with my color memorization method, so I revised it. Now, instead of 9 colors, I use 9 adjectives. This allowed my memo times to drop by about a minute after I got used to the method. 

My letter scheme is still the same: 
Section 1: 5 sides adjacent to top lettered A-Y
Section 2: 5 sides adjacent to bottom lettered A-Y
Section 3: top and bottom letter A-J

The sections of pieces in a letter pair determine the adjective given to that image/word. This is what I use:

1,1: Normal (I just memorize the word)
2,2: Evil/bad
1,2: Big
2,1: Small
1,3: Old/used
2,3: Young/new
3,1: Black
3,2: White
3,3: Clear/invisible

This is just a small change to my method but it allowed my times to drop quickly and increased my memory recall.


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## Jacck (Aug 2, 2017)

Really interesting that something like that can help so much.


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## TheGrayCuber (Aug 3, 2017)

The reason I did it was to create bigger differences between the adjectives. The colors were different, but they were all colors, so I ended up memorizing four objects, and four colors in the order, instead of four colored objects. This new method I have been using has let me attach the adjective more strongly to the image.


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## Jacck (Aug 24, 2017)

Still trying to get a sub37 with the Pyraminx Chrystal and while solving a messed up one I had the idea, what would happen, if I first turn away the edges around a corner and then "commutate". 
(quite similar like the midges on Gigaminx or edges on Megaminx:
L' R F2 U L R F2 U' ... and - as I realized in the end - just a longer version of Stefan's 14; that I now understand and again see, how brilliant he is!)

Standardorientation white on top, darkgreen in front: U=white L=purple RB=blue RD=brightyellow R=red

L' RB RD // free U-R-F-corner
R' RD' R // bring R-RD-F-corner up (it came from F-RD-LD with the RD-turn)
RD' RB' L // free'
U' // change with U-F-L
L' RB RD R' RD R RD' RB' L
U
(then the next corner and exe backwards)

Does the same as my 16-mover with 20 moves, but is more logical and the inverse isn't hard. And you can take another top-corner as helper to solve it much easier: just take more U's (like with Stefan's 14).


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