# Barefoot Running



## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

Take a good minute to think about what you were wearing when you where born..
Nothing right? Because your body is a masterpiece that is quite literally made to run. 

Ill tell you the quick history of running.

200,000 BC Humans appear on earth..Barefoot.
8,000 BC We finally figure out how to make sandals.
So thousand of years, no problems. 
Lets go to late 70's.
Nike comes out with the first padded running shoes. 

So? Nike came out with shoes, whats the big deal? 
Ill tell you. Injuries. 
Since then, 

Achilles Tendon blowouts have increased by 10%
54% chance in hip injury 
37% in knee injury
And that's only the stuff doctors have said. 

Personally, Ive gotten pain in my ankle, shin, hip, and lower back while running. 
Who wants to run with all that pain?

Ever since Ive started running barefoot, every single pain I ever had went away. Ive gotten faster and now I'm able to run longer distances.
Barefoot running has made me feel like one with the earth and there is no better feeling in the world. 

Long story short, Go Barefoot. Just take off your shoes and walk around for awhile. Discover the world you've never felt.

Picture of me barefoot.


Spoiler


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## emolover (Feb 1, 2012)

I have tried it and scraped the crap out of my feet. I think I will stick with shoes but then again I run in really nice and expensive shoes.

Did you make this because I asks you if you wanted to see me naked?


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

emolover said:


> I have tried it and scraped the crap out of my feet. I think I will stick with shoes but then again I run in really nice and expensive shoes.
> 
> Did you make this because I asks you if you wanted to see me naked?


 
Well when you start, you shouldnt run that much. Maybe a mile or so til your feet get used to it. 
WTF? haha Thats so random.


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## PCwizCube (Feb 1, 2012)

BORN TO RUN. Have you read that book? I've tried barefoot running, pretty nice  I try to do it more but with schoolwork and snow it's kind of hard 

Most people who "barefoot run" do it with minimalist shoes, but IMO that's not the best way. It doesn't teach you properly how to barefoot run, so you're prone to injuries if you wear minimalist shoes. If you are serious about it, starting out with completely barefoot is the best way.


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## thackernerd (Feb 1, 2012)

I would, but it hurts my feet to run and any kind of pavement.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

PCwizCube said:


> BORN TO RUN. Have you read that book? I've tried barefoot running, pretty nice  I try to do it more but with schoolwork and snow it's kind of hard
> 
> Most people who "barefoot run" do it with minimalist shoes, but IMO that's not the best way. It doesn't teach you properly how to barefoot run, so you're prone to injuries if you wear minimalist shoes. If you are serious about it, starting out with completely barefoot is the best way.


 
Its my favorite book....Ever..



Sahid Velji said:


> I got excited when I saw "running". I've seen barefoot running discussed a lot on runner's world before and I think it's very natural running barefoot. Most of the things we do today are "artificial" anyway but I have yet to try running barefoot. I have gotten pain in my knee before, which led me to quit running for 2 weeks 0.o
> When you run barefeet, do you run with minimalist shoes or socks or do you go completely barefoot?


 
Look at picture,


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## PCwizCube (Feb 1, 2012)

thackernerd said:


> I would, but it hurts my feet to run and any kind of pavement.


Then you're not running properly  Yeah it hurts a lot at first but after a while if you learn how to do it properly then it doesn't really hurt anymore.



PandaCuber said:


> Its my favorite book....Ever..


NICE !!! Yeah good book. 

Btw, how long have you been running barefoot, and how far can you go on a typical run? (after getting tired or uncomfortable or something)


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

PCwizCube said:


> NICE !!! Yeah good book.
> 
> Btw, how long have you been running barefoot, and how far can you go on a typical run? (after getting tired or uncomfortable or something)


 
Since late december 2011. 

Going barefoot, I can only do up to 10k. Anything over that, I wear Huaraches. I made my own pair.


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## Dillonzer (Feb 1, 2012)

I can't cause there is snow on the ground


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## PCwizCube (Feb 1, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Since late december 2011.
> 
> Going barefoot, I can only do up to 10k. Anything over that, I wear Huaraches. I made my own pair.


 
Only since late december 2011???!! That's impressive!!! You're awesome! haha. I can't run anywhere close to that  at least winter here is almost over


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## qqwref (Feb 1, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Take a good minute to think about what you were wearing when you where born..
> Nothing right? Because your body is a masterpiece that is quite literally made to run.
> [...]
> 200,000 BC Humans appear on earth..Barefoot.
> ...


Take a good minute to think about what you were wearing when you where born..
Nothing right? Because your body is a masterpiece that is quite literally made to be fine at any temperature.
[...]
2,000,000 BC (FTFY) Humans appear on earth..No temperature controls.
500 BC We finally figure out how to make air conditioning.
So thousand of years, no problems.



PandaCuber said:


> So? Nike came out with shoes, whats the big deal?
> Ill tell you. Injuries.
> Since then,
> 
> ...


Do you have any studies about whether these injuries are actually caused by running shoes? To me, it sounds like these kind of injuries could also be caused by (a) people being older and running when older, (b) people pushing themselves athletically harder than they used to, and (c) lifestyle changes causing people to be statistically more sedentary and fatter. So you'd have to account for those changes.


Hey, I'm happy that you like barefoot running, but don't go all new-age/conspiracy-theory on us. The body is very far from perfect, and shoes are just one of the many modern conveniences that have good reasons to exist. If you want to convince someone of something, don't use poor logic and fallacies.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

PCwizCube said:


> Only since late december 2011???!! That's impressive!!! You're awesome! haha. I can't run anywhere close to that  at least winter here is almost over


 
thanks. I have a passion for running long distance. It just comes naturally to me.


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## Sarahjdes (Feb 1, 2012)

I've been doing karate for a while now, and I have to agree, I can't picture myself doing it with shoes! I never hurt my knees training barefoot. Unfortunately, I live in the city and it would be too dangerous to run barefoot over here.


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## somerandomkidmike (Feb 1, 2012)

Those interested in barefoot running could try vibram 5 finger shoes. They're pretty much like a glove for your feet, but they have a little grip on the bottom.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

qqwref said:


> Do you have any studies about whether these injuries are actually caused by running shoes? To me, it sounds like these kind of injuries could also be caused by (a) people being older and running when older, (b) people pushing themselves athletically harder than they used to, and (c) lifestyle changes causing people to be statistically more sedentary and fatter. So you'd have to account for those changes.
> Hey, I'm happy that you like barefoot running, but don't go all new-age/conspiracy-theory on us. The body is very far from perfect, and shoes are just one of the many modern conveniences that have good reasons to exist. If you want to convince someone of something, don't use poor logic and fallacies.


 
What I wrote was a short summary of a long book of explanation. 
Your age has nothing to do with running. 65 year olds can run as fast as a 19 year old.
You dont think people have always pushed themselves to the max? Spartan warriors were the best athletes in the world.
Fatter because people dont exercise anymore. Who would want to exercise in pain?

And its not the shoes that kills you. Its what the shoes make you do. They make you land on your heel. The pressure on your heel is 3x greater if you landed on your forefoot like you do when you run barefoot. Anything else?


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## cubernya (Feb 1, 2012)

somerandomkidmike said:


> Those interested in barefoot running could try vibram 5 finger shoes. They're pretty much like a glove for your feet, but they have a little grip on the bottom.


 
I have those. The things are awesome...so lightweight


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## PCwizCube (Feb 1, 2012)

qqwref said:


> Take a good minute to think about what you were wearing when you where born..
> Nothing right? Because your body is a masterpiece that is quite literally made to be fine at any temperature.
> [...]
> 2,000,000 BC (FTFY) Humans appear on earth..No temperature controls.
> ...


These aren't bad studies:
http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/Nature2010_FootStrikePatternsandCollisionForces.pdf
http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/Nature2004_EnduranceRunningandtheEvolutionofHomo.pdf
http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/

There's been quiet a bit research on the material. One thing to note is that running injuries skyrocketed after the invention of the running shoe. Something else interesting is that I remember reading that a person asked any shoe company in the world to produce a study that showed that running shoes reduced injuries, and no one responded.

Other interesting stuff:

Most shod runners land on their heel. If you look at collision force graphs (with shoes, without shoes), heel-landing runners generally have a sudden "jolt" or "jump" in the collision force, which is hypthothesized that that could cause many injuries (pressure in hips, bones, knees). 

When most people go out barefoot, it's extremely painful. *Thus you must adapt your stride to reduce collision impact and increase efficiency. That's the most important thing about barefoot running.* So yes, more so technique.

Also, if you look at ultrarunners like Ann Trason, Scott Jurek, Matt Carpenter, or the Tarahumura Indians, they do races that are up to 200 miles long and they rarely get injuries. The primary reason is that they've adopted their stride to the stride of a barefoot runner.

Also if you run barefoot you strengthen your feet much more, and they become much more flexible as well. That also helps lessen injuries a lot.


> But Nike was forced into creating its minimalist shoe - Nike Free - after two sales representatives were shocked to find the Stanford University athletics team, whose runners it sponsors, running about barefoot, according to a recent book on running called Born To Run.
> 
> When the Nike pair asked why, Stanford’s head coach of athletics Vin Lananna said: ‘‘I can’t prove this ... but I believe that when my runners train barefoot they run faster and suffer fewer injuries."
> http://www.barefootevolution.com/barefoot-blog/63-skin-in.html



That's obviously by no means conclusive evidence that barefoot running is good, but it's just something to show it's not totally bogus.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

PCwizCube said:


> These aren't bad studies:
> http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/Nature2010_FootStrikePatternsandCollisionForces.pdf
> http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/Nature2004_EnduranceRunningandtheEvolutionofHomo.pdf
> http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/


 
I had these pages open on other tabs...O.O


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## MovingOnUp (Feb 1, 2012)

hellooo people?

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/index.htm

someone already mentioned but whatev...


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

MovingOnUp said:


> hellooo people?
> 
> http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/index.htm
> 
> someone already mentioned but whatev...


 
Yeah ive already ordered some. I perfer barefoot, but I plan on using these to go out in public. Cant wait.


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## qqwref (Feb 1, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Your age has nothing to do with running. 65 year olds can run as fast as a 19 year old.


I don't know whether what you say is true, but my point is that age has a lot to do with injuries, especially running injuries. Among other things, joints deteriorate over time, so that you are much more likely to injure your knees from 5 years of running at age 60 than at age 20. If more older people are running for sport than they used to, it would help explain an increase in running injuries.



PandaCuber said:


> You dont think people have always pushed themselves to the max? Spartan warriors were the best athletes in the world.


Were they? Did they do tests back then between elite athletes from every area of the world? (Did other areas of the world even have formalized athletic events?) And anyway, I think we've seen from cubing how what it takes to get to world-class increases over time. So if you want to be the best in the world now, you should expect a lot more difficulty than you would have 2000+ years ago. And harder training means higher chance of injury.



PandaCuber said:


> Fatter because people dont exercise anymore. Who would want to exercise in pain?


People are fatter because calorie-dense food is easier/cheaper to get and because modern lifestyles/jobs are more sedentary than they were even 50 years ago.



PandaCuber said:


> And its not the shoes that kills you. Its what the shoes make you do. They make you land on your heel.


I can agree with that, but it's an issue of technique. The fact that many people are running with poor technique does not mean it's better to go barefoot, it means it's better to improve technique. With proper shoes and proper technique, I think you would see better results and less foot damage than with no shoes and proper technique.


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## TheMachanga (Feb 1, 2012)

http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/runner-communities/barefoot-running

I've personally not been interested in BF running, but I think it's cool that you bf op. 

I've heard VFF will injure you if you don't know what you're doing, so if you're interested in barefoot, you have to know everything about it.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

> I don't know whether what you say is true, but my point is that age has a lot to do with injuries, especially running injuries. Among other things, joints deteriorate over time, so that you are much more likely to injure your knees from 5 years of running at age 60 than at age 20. If more older people are running for sport than they used to, it would help explain an increase in running injuries.



If you ran a 5k in 20 mins at the age of 20. Then kept running for 40 years. And you kept up your health. At 60 you will be able to run that 5k in 20mins or better.



> Were they? Did they do tests back then between elite athletes from every area of the world? (Did other areas of the world even have formalized athletic events?) And anyway, I think we've seen from cubing how what it takes to get to world-class increases over time. So if you want to be the best in the world now, you should expect a lot more difficulty than you would have 2000+ years ago. And harder training means higher chance of injury.



They didnt train like we do. First of all, long time ago(spartan time) in order to get news around, you had to run. To get anywhere, you had to run. Then sports has always been around. People always want to see whos the better man, so they couldve had a race. Get it?




> People are fatter because calorie-dense food is easier/cheaper to get and because modern lifestyles/jobs are more sedentary than they were even 50 years ago.



People are fat cause you can get food delivered to your door. 



> I can agree with that, but it's an issue of technique. The fact that many people are running with poor technique does not mean it's better to go barefoot, it means it's better to improve technique. With proper shoes and proper technique, I think you would see better results and less foot damage than with no shoes and proper technique.



Its not always the technique. Think about the sole. .Your foot naturally looks for hard floor to land on. It looks for stability. So if theres cushioning, your foot pushes through that to get to the bottom. Thats why over time, you have a footprint in your shoe .


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

TheMachanga said:


> http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/runner-communities/barefoot-running
> 
> I've personally not been interested in BF running, but I think it's cool that you bf op.
> 
> I've heard VFF will injure you if you don't know what you're doing, so if you're interested in barefoot, you have to know everything about it.


 
This is true. You can get hurt in VFF. 
And you dont have to know everything. Just have good form and everything will come to you.


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## PCwizCube (Feb 1, 2012)

TheMachanga said:


> http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/runner-communities/barefoot-running
> 
> I've personally not been interested in BF running, but I think it's cool that you bf op.
> 
> I've heard VFF will injure you if you don't know what you're doing, so if you're interested in barefoot, you have to know everything about it.


Yes, because VFF don't 100% teach you how to run barefoot properly, so if you go into VFFs really fast you'll hurt yourself pretty easily. It's best to start with totally barefoot and slowly learn from there.

I also wear VFFs to school everyday haha.


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## pjk (Feb 1, 2012)

What about stepping on glass, wood shavings, and other sharp objects? Why not buy shoes that lets you spread out your feet fully and cushions them, as well as protects them? Running barefoot is fine depending on where you're running, but you have to be careful.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

pjk said:


> What about stepping on glass, wood shavings, and other sharp objects? Why not buy shoes that lets you spread out your feet fully and cushions them, as well as protects them? Running barefoot is fine depending on where you're running, but you have to be careful.


 
You tend to "Look-ahead" (Teehee).
I wear these when I know im gunna run in an unknown location or on a long run.



Spoiler



This is not me, but i do have these and they look exactly the same.


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## PCwizCube (Feb 1, 2012)

pjk said:


> What about stepping on glass, wood shavings, and other sharp objects? Why not buy shoes that lets you spread out your feet fully and cushions them, as well as protects them? Running barefoot is fine depending on where you're running, but you have to be careful.


That's wear minimalist shoes come in. They spread out your feet and are generally enough to protect your feet. (Most conventional running sneakers cramp your toes) And your feet don't really need much cushioning if you're running properly. But yes as PandaCuber said it's generally much better to look where you're going so you can avoid stepping on anything nasty.


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## Cool Frog (Feb 1, 2012)

I always wanted to just say good riddance to my shoes. 
(I hate those things =/)

I would just walk/run barefoot Just that my school doesn't even allow sandals.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

Sahid Velji said:


> @ PandaCuber: Does your foot ever get injured when you run barefoot? I mean, what if there is a tiny piece of glass, or any other object that you didn't see, it would cause your feet to start bleeding. Maybe I'm just a little too worried.


 
There was this one time I went running at night (stupid decision) and on my way home, i stepped on a little piece of glass. 
I bleed a little(Not drastically) and it came out fairly easy. I put some alcohol on it and I was good to go. 

And if you do step on something, youll definitely feel it and you will stop running. So you wont run till your foot falls off lol


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## emolover (Feb 1, 2012)

@Panda

Nice feet! 

I don't see how people get these injuries. The only injury I have ever got from running was that I hyper extended my knee from falling down a hill because I was running too fast. 

Also how about everyone post there best 5K.

Mine officially is 18:56 and unofficially is 17:51(Set it yesterday).


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## TheMachanga (Feb 1, 2012)

emolover said:


> @Panda
> 
> Nice feet!
> 
> ...


 
Nice! In Illinois, cross country is 3 mile, so I have a 17:47 3 mile, which is around an 18:25 5k.


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## A Leman (Feb 1, 2012)

When I was young, I always went fishing and decided it was better to fish in streams while barefoot because my shoes would stay dry. So every summer would start by me finding a tough gravel road and running on it untill the pain went away and I gained stong callouses. This made me a big fan of running barefoot since it felt like wearing shoes anyway(pavement and even glass are not bad after awhile). Then over the summer during my senior year, i was running about 70-80 miles a week. I slowly developed bone bruises and by the time fall came, I could barely walk before and after my first race.

The point I am trying to make is that lightweight shoes(not minimalist shoes or barefoot) may be the best solution. They are usually comfortable and wear down very well while still providing protection from the probable year that barefoot running bites back and takes a season away from you.


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## Carson (Feb 1, 2012)

I can't walk inside my house for more than a short time before my feet start to hurt. I won't even go to the mailbox without shoes on... I'm sticking to shoes. I think safety is top priority, and unless you are running on a closed and controlled course, it is not safe to run without shoes. Whether it is better for technique or whatever... doesn't really matter to me.


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## emolover (Feb 1, 2012)

@Carson

You might want to get your feet checked out if you experience pain just from walking around your house. My feet only hurt after a very long run or a difficult hike.


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## TheMachanga (Feb 1, 2012)

emolover said:


> @Carson
> 
> You might want to get your feet checked out if you experience pain just from walking around your house. My feet only hurt after a very long run or a difficult hike.



Maybe not, my feet hurt just from standing in the shower


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## emolover (Feb 1, 2012)

TheMachanga said:


> Maybe not, my feet hurt just from standing in the shower


 
Most people have that problem because the blood is not circulating as much when you are standing still and putting all your weight on it. But I dont have a problem from walking.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

TheMachanga said:


> Maybe not, my feet hurt just from standing in the shower



Some people wear shoes soo much, that they never develop the barefooot muscles. Thats what could cause your pain. 



emolover said:


> @Panda
> 
> Nice feet!
> 
> ...



A couple weeks ago I did a low 17. Dont remember what the last two numbers were though


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## Cube-Fu (Feb 1, 2012)

With a little time and gentle conditioning, barefoot practices can be very beneficial for your body; helping maintain body heat and improving immunity. Plus it makes you look like a hippy...


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

Heres a quick video of my Huaraches. 
In the beginning its just a solve, nothing special and the Huarache part starts at 0:22


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## Kirjava (Feb 1, 2012)

itt scaremongering


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## PandaCuber (Feb 1, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> itt scaremongering


 
What? I dont get it..


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## PandaCuber (Feb 10, 2012)

I Just wanted to say that I have made a blog about my barefoot running experiences. So far nothing is really there, but I plan on writing on it everyday or every other day. Check it out.

http://teenbarefootblog.blogspot.com/


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## RyanReese09 (Feb 10, 2012)

I go to runnersworld and I've seen the barefoot running thread.

I've even tried it. It's not for everybody. Me being one of them.

Yes it does hurt at first but eventually your feet will toughen up. I could notice a difference within a week or two about how much it hurt. I would transition runs from grass to trail and then pavement.

I just like the support the shoes give me. Yes it's extra weight but I like i t.

My 2 cents.


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## JLarsen (Feb 10, 2012)

Have you ever tried those Vibram toe shoes? That way you could have the natural movement while running without the pain of asphalt on bare feet?


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## RyanReese09 (Feb 10, 2012)

I don't know what those shoes are but I have minimalistic shoes that I occasionally run in.

I mainly use it for walking though as it simulates barefoot, which strengthens your feet. So I try to wear it during my downtime.

I'm averaging like 45 miles a week 6/7 days in it.

Gonna bump it to 50 next week though and see how that goes. Racing season is almost here.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 10, 2012)

JLarsen said:


> Have you ever tried those Vibram toe shoes? That way you could have the natural movement while running without the pain of asphalt on bare feet?


 
Ive ordered them. Still waiting. 

For Ryan.


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## whauk (Feb 10, 2012)

at a party i met a guy who was barefoot. as he told me he decided half a year ago not to wear shoes again. last week i met him again (outside temperature -15 °C) and he was wearing shoes


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## timelonade (Feb 10, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Personally, Ive gotten pain in my ankle, shin, hip, and lower back while running.
> Who wants to run with all that pain?



Running is given as lifestyle advice/treatment to some people with lower back pain:
The intrinsic muscles of your spine stop eccentric movement of your head when you run, so running makes them stronger --> less back pain

Can you describe what you think the cause of the pain is? 
I would imagine that the pain has come from the force carried up your leg when your foot lands, so the shock absorption from trainers/sneakers would only help ...


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## RyanReese09 (Feb 11, 2012)

@emolover, how many times a week / how many miles are you running?

Also how long you've been keeping up that mileage.

Based on your answer, I doubt you run consistent high mileage. Injuries happen there.


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## Cheese11 (Feb 12, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Ive ordered them. Still waiting.
> 
> For Ryan.


 
I saw these at a sports store when I was buying new shoes and I was like, "WTF?!!?".


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 12, 2012)

Thread too long, didn't read.

I was researching about minimalist shoes a while ago, and concluded that it's not the shoes that are causing injuries, but rather which style of running you're used to.

If you usually wear sneakers and suddenly goes sprinting barefoot, obviously that is not gonna be a good idea.
The same with if you're used to running without cushioning, getting into thick shoes is gonna cause injuries because you're pushing beyond what your feet could withstand.

It's all about gradual transition.


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## shelley (Feb 13, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> If you ran a 5k in 20 mins at the age of 20. Then kept running for 40 years. And you kept up your health. At 60 you will be able to run that 5k in 20mins or better.


 
qq's argument had nothing to do with running performance. There is absolutely a difference between a 20 year old and a 60 year old in terms of injury recovery and joint wear. Look at all the people who need to get knee/hip surgery. Are they more likely to be 20 year olds or 65 year olds?


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## PandaCuber (Feb 13, 2012)

shelley said:


> qq's argument had nothing to do with running performance. There is absolutely a difference between a 20 year old and a 60 year old in terms of injury recovery and joint wear. Look at all the people who need to get knee/hip surgery. Are they more likely to be 20 year olds or 65 year olds?


 
Have you seen these broken down old people? They are not athletes. 
Look at this video. http://ilpvideo.com/video.php?v=Mjc5OTg

This is ripped. Does he look like he needs a wheelchair?


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## shelley (Feb 14, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Have you seen these broken down old people? They are not athletes.
> Look at this video. http://ilpvideo.com/video.php?v=Mjc5OTg
> 
> This is ripped. Does he look like he needs a wheelchair?


 
There are 60 year olds in great shape and there are 60 year olds that need wheelchairs. Nobody's disputing that. All I'm saying that statistically, a 60 year old is much more likely to have problems with injuries or bad joints than a 20 year old.

Pointing out a single example of a 60 year old who happens to be in good shape does nothing for your argument. I could just as easily find a 60 year old who is in terrible shape, or perhaps (more relevant to this conversation) an older person who only recently took up running and is prone to injury.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 14, 2012)

shelley said:


> There are 60 year olds in great shape and there are 60 year olds that need wheelchairs. Nobody's disputing that. This does nothing for your argument.


 
My argument is that, if people exercise, you can be in great shape for the majority of your life. 
I wrote this minimally promoting barefoot running, but my main concept was exercise in general. 
And by personal experience, barefoot-ing has made my exercise and personal life funner,safer(less injuries), and healthier. 

Moral of Story = Exercise.


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## shelley (Feb 14, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> My argument is that, if people exercise, you can be in great shape for the majority of your life.
> I wrote this minimally promoting barefoot running, but my main concept was exercise in general.
> And by personal experience, barefoot-ing has made my exercise and personal life funner,safer(less injuries), and healthier.
> 
> Moral of Story = Exercise.


 
That's a great moral, and it's good that barefoot running has made your experience better, but you can't claim that it does things like prevent injuries when you have no evidence to support that.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 14, 2012)

Post made by PCwizCube



Spoiler



These aren't bad studies:
http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.e...sionForces.pdf
http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.e...tionofHomo.pdf
http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/

There's been quiet a bit research on the material. One thing to note is that running injuries skyrocketed after the invention of the running shoe. Something else interesting is that I remember reading that a person asked any shoe company in the world to produce a study that showed that running shoes reduced injuries, and no one responded.

Other interesting stuff:

Most shod runners land on their heel. If you look at collision force graphs (with shoes, without shoes), heel-landing runners generally have a sudden "jolt" or "jump" in the collision force, which is hypthothesized that that could cause many injuries (pressure in hips, bones, knees).

When most people go out barefoot, it's extremely painful. Thus you must adapt your stride to reduce collision impact and increase efficiency. That's the most important thing about barefoot running. So yes, more so technique.

Also, if you look at ultrarunners like Ann Trason, Scott Jurek, Matt Carpenter, or the Tarahumura Indians, they do races that are up to 200 miles long and they rarely get injuries. The primary reason is that they've adopted their stride to the stride of a barefoot runner.

Also if you run barefoot you strengthen your feet much more, and they become much more flexible as well. That also helps lessen injuries a lot.
But Nike was forced into creating its minimalist shoe - Nike Free - after two sales representatives were shocked to find the Stanford University athletics team, whose runners it sponsors, running about barefoot, according to a recent book on running called Born To Run.

When the Nike pair asked why, Stanford’s head coach of athletics Vin Lananna said: ‘‘I can’t prove this ... but I believe that when my runners train barefoot they run faster and suffer fewer injuries."
http://www.barefootevolution.com/bar...3-skin-in.html
That's obviously by no means conclusive evidence that barefoot running is good, but it's just something to show it's not totally bogus. 

Last edited by PCwizCube; 1 Week Ago at 06:28 PM.


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## RyanReese09 (Mar 16, 2012)

Sahid Velji said:


> I decided to go for a walk with my bare feet. I took my cube with me and it was actually pretty funny. People kept staring at me and I head things like, "Where is his shoes?", "Is this guy crazy?" and "Can't this kid afford some shoes!?". On top of that I was doing blind solves while walking around. My feet did hurt when I was walking and I did step on a piece of glass, I saw a little bit of blood, but I just brushed off the piece of glass and kept walking.
> The one thing I am worried about though, is when my feet get used to walking like this, I will eventually not feel glass anymore, and that could lead to some serious trouble when I'm running long distances. The reason for that is because if I do step on a piece of glass, it will cut further and further into my feet without me feeling anything.


 
Well first of all, your feet will never be immune to pain (at least, not from purely running). They will only toughen up

And second of all, that's why you get Vibrams...


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## E3cubestore (Mar 16, 2012)

Lol I'm not a runner and I never aspire to be, but I spend march to October in either flip flops or bare feet. By the time winter starts my feet are extremely calloused and that helps to prevent injuries, but I have cut the sole of my foot doing it and though the rest of u guys are laughing off glass in your foot to try to be tough, I'm honest enough to say that getting cut in the sole of your foot genuinely hurts.

Also I'm guessing that most barefoot runners or people who just go barefoot like me have experienced cuts on the soles of your feet. Yet you still claim that shoes injure people and barefoot people are perfectly healthy?

Also I'd like to point out that running on hard surfaces like asphalt, concrete, etc. hurts quite a bit and even though your feet may toughen up, cushioning protects the foot.

Another case is asphalt on a sunny day. BURNING HOT! I for one don't want to be without any foot wear when I'm walking down an asphalt road lol.

Going barefoot is awesome IMO, but don't promote it beyond reason.


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## RyanReese09 (Mar 16, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> Lol I'm not a runner and I never aspire to be, but I spend march to October in either flip flops or bare feet. By the time winter starts my feet are extremely calloused and that helps to prevent injuries, but I have cut the sole of my foot doing it and though the rest of u guys are laughing off glass in your foot to try to be tough, I'm honest enough to say that getting cut in the sole of your foot genuinely hurts.
> 
> Also I'm guessing that most barefoot runners or people who just go barefoot like me have experienced cuts on the soles of your feet. Yet you still claim that shoes injure people and barefoot people are perfectly healthy?
> 
> ...


 
Two words. Trail Running.


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## PandaCuber (Mar 16, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> Lol I'm not a runner and I never aspire to be, but I spend march to October in either flip flops or bare feet. By the time winter starts my feet are extremely calloused and that helps to prevent injuries,



Barefoot runners dont have callouses... That means youre doing something very wrong. 



E3cubestore said:


> I have cut the sole of my foot doing it and though the rest of u guys are laughing off glass in your foot to try to be tough, I'm honest enough to say that getting cut in the sole of your foot genuinely hurts.



Once again, youre probably landing too hard and youre pushing off the ground, putting friction on your feet. Lift your feet up, dont push off. 



E3cubestore said:


> Also I'm guessing that most barefoot runners or people who just go barefoot like me have experienced cuts on the soles of your feet. Yet you still claim that shoes injure people and barefoot people are perfectly healthy?



Cuts? Whats that? Ive never gotten any. 
You really gotta do more research on How to Run in general. 



E3cubestore said:


> Also I'd like to point out that running on hard surfaces like asphalt, concrete, etc. hurts quite a bit and even though your feet may toughen up, cushioning protects the foot



Running on hard surfaces are actually BETTER for barefoot running. Landing with your knees bent and on the ball of the foot, you will be pain free. Its not about 'Tough' feet, its about landing and running correctly. Barefoot running teaches you how to run like you were meant to. 
Cushoning restricts the amount of muscles you use while you run. Also messes up your natural form.




E3cubestore said:


> Another case is asphalt on a sunny day. BURNING HOT! I for one don't want to be without any foot wear when I'm walking down an asphalt road lol.



Walk on the white line. Black absorbs more heat than white. Or wear sandals or Huaraches. 

Going barefoot is awesome IMO, but don't promote it beyond reason.


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## E3cubestore (Mar 16, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Barefoot runners dont have callouses... That means youre doing something very wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Callouses: a callous is a buildup up of insensitive skin material, if parts of your skin are continually exposed to friction, a callous will appear. When I walk barefoot for long periods of time, my feet are exposed to friction, therefore I get callouses. Explain what I'm doing wrong.

"don't push off feet": first of all I said I'm not a runner, but I walk bare feet, my question for you is, if you aren't supposed to push with your feet, where does the momentum come from?!?!

Cuts: several people in this thread have already stated that they have cut their feet on glass etc. you really have to be careful with your feet since you can get infected from cuts or blood poisoning from cuts on metal. Feet toughen up, but your soles can still get injured.

Hard surfaces: I'm not even going to argue this point, all I know is that if I walk barefoot on hard surfaces for long periods of time, my feet become sore. And I don't intend to bend my knees and walk in the wierd position you describe lol. But you might be right as far as cushioning, so I can't argue, but I did notice you just stated "facts" without any semblance of evidence.

Hot surfaces: you seriously expect me to walk on a 4 inch wide line to avoid burning when I could just put on footwear? First of all that is dangerously near to vehicles traveling on the road, second it would require extra concentration that I would rather devote to a conversation with a friend, third, it still wouldn't alleviate the problem 100%, the white part does warm up too, just not as intensely. Fourth, many roads, especially in my rural area, have no white lines marked.

And did you just plagiarize me in the last line of your response?!?


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## PandaCuber (Mar 16, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> Callouses: a callous is a buildup up of insensitive skin material, if parts of your skin are continually exposed to friction, a callous will appear. When I walk barefoot for long periods of time, my feet are exposed to friction, therefore I get callouses. Explain what I'm doing wrong.
> 
> "don't push off feet": first of all I said I'm not a runner, but I walk bare feet, my question for you is, if you aren't supposed to push with your feet, where does the momentum come from?!?!
> 
> ...


 

"Going barefoot is awesome IMO, but don't promote it beyond reason. "

I swear on my life I didnt write this. I would never write "IMO" anyway. Who the fff wrote this? Seriously I didnt. 

Oh so you are walking...Hm, havent done much walking lol. I perfer running where ever I need to go.

About the callouses, just dont walk that much and wait til your feet get used to walking barefoot. Go slow and gradually increase the amount of time you walk. 
I only get this when I run toooo much. Choose a comfortable time/distance and stick to that.

Cuts: Be careful where you walk. Dont be stupid and walk on broken glass and metal until youve been barefoot for a while. 

Sorry, facts came from the investigation ive made on barefoot running. Maybe try landing midfoot when you walk. As I said, dont go walk a 42K marathon the first month barefoot. Just like cubing. You start off with LBL doing 2 minutes a solve, then gradually increase to F2L then sub 20(for example)

Hot: Sandals. 
Cold: Sandals with socks 

And you did say *Running quite a few times, so I thought you were a runner. My bad. But same concepts apply.


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## E3cubestore (Mar 16, 2012)

The start of my post read "I'm not a runner and never aspire to be", just because I mentioned running in a running thread doesn't mean I am a runner.

Just like if I talk about murderers who murder peole, i am not automatically a murderer.

Thank you for acknowledging my argument on most points but there is something you didn't address:

You said that people's feet getting hurt was a result of pushing off the feet and creating friction. My question is, where the heck does the momentum come from if you are lifting your feet up and not pushing with them?!? The wind?? 

You obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about.


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## PandaCuber (Mar 17, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> The start of my post read "I'm not a runner and never aspire to be", just because I mentioned running in a running thread doesn't mean I am a runner.
> 
> Just like if I talk about murderers who murder peole, i am not automatically a murderer.
> 
> ...


 
Leaning foward from the ankles. 
Light, swift steps helps from causing a lot of friction when you run. 
Landing softly is key in barefoot running. 
Curving the toes slightly up can cause less friction in the ball of foot area.

If you want to get even MORE specific, look at the spoiler.


Spoiler



So, to land without skidding or sliding, you must take control and
responsibility for the motion of your foot. And the best way to
accomplish this is to move it in a smooth curve—not really a circle, but
more of a flat-bottom oval shape. At the bottom of this oval, the foot
should be traveling at precisely the speed and direction the surface is
traveling beneath us. When it’s done right, it will feel a lot like you’re
bicycling.
When it’s time to lift the foot, we can avoid pushing it back or
dragging it along the ground by lifting straight up. As it elevates, the
foot’s relative backward momentum (in relation to your body) should
start to slow, and then start to accelerate as it is automatically pulled
foward by your body and leg.
Now, while swinging your leg forward, it is time to do something that
seems counterintuitive: start lifting the foot before it lands. It’s easy
enough—just bend the knee. Since your body is still falling, it takes
time to reverse the direction of the foot, which continues to travel down
toward the ground. But in relation to your body, the foot is actually
beginning to move up. This relative rise also starts your foot moving
backward—the direction the running surface is traveling beneath us.
Like an airplane landing, your sole should gently and gracefully touch
down; unlike an airplane, however, it won’t roll forward on the surface,
but stays in one place on the ground and moves backward relative to
your forward-moving body. And there you are, back to the same
position where you began, except that you’re two steps forward.
Again, the goal here is not to try to rigidly or robotically drill the
above-described motion into your running, but rather to feel how you
are moving, and respond by making adjustments and fine-tuning.
Ideally, within several steps you’ll have progressed to a much
smoother, less jerky, more “curvy” motion. Whenever you need to be
responsive to unknown terrain, your bare soles give you the cues
instantly, so that you can respond appropriately.



People get hurt from bad form.


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## E3cubestore (Mar 17, 2012)

My point is that you do have to push with your feet, if you simply lifted them, as you suggested, you wouldn't move

Anyway I've had my fun in this discussion, carry on


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## Kirjava (Mar 17, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> What? I dont get it..


 
OP reeks of it


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## poke544 (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't run bare-foot much... or run much any more, though I really need to start. I used to run in wrestling shoes which had much less support than my running shoes, and it feels completely different.


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## Stefan (Mar 17, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you write that, or is that from some book? If the latter, which?


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## PandaCuber (Mar 17, 2012)

Stefan said:


> Did you write that, or is that from some book? If the latter, which?


 
yeah it came from a book. Im not that good at explaning, but the book does a nice job.


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## Sillas (Mar 17, 2012)

I could only reach two conclusions: 
- The students of Harvard could have much and much better in that article, but it not means that they are wrong.
- If you want it, you may train and prepare your body to the impact of that exercise. Pain in the spine are bad sign.


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## PandaCuber (Mar 18, 2012)

Image
Distance: 10k 
About 32C degrees
Time: about 58 minutes. 
yeah good enough



Spoiler


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## Thorsten (Mar 19, 2012)

I read the whole thread in one turn.

And I'm very interested in barefoot running. 

But there is one thing i didn't see an answer in this thread (and is probably a part of the line between shoe-runners and barefoot-runners):

What is the best way to get to barefoot running? 
Some people wrote: Yeah just start walking around barefoot. I do that pretty much, but I don't think this will clean all the path to barefoot running, because barefoot running needs a different style of running (not land on your heels).

What would be the best way to train this style of running?


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## PandaCuber (Mar 19, 2012)

Thorsten said:


> I read the whole thread in one turn.
> 
> And I'm very interested in barefoot running.
> 
> ...


 
Well, when you wear shoes, there are many muscles that you dont use, so what you have to do is gradually learn to use those un-used muscles. 
Start walking barefoot. Just walk anywhere and really feel the ground. Get used to it.
When youre ready, you can start running 5-7 minutes a day(too much and you get hurt). Most of the form will come natural. 
The next week you can move up to 10 minutes, etc.
Listen to your feet.


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## 24653483361 (Mar 30, 2012)

I just ran a 6:58 mile today with a 3:30ish split half mile. I have a week break coming up and I want to train a lot and get my mile time down. But I also want to make sure I don't injure myself. So if you train barefoot, is it okay to wear running shoes at your race?


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## PandaCuber (Apr 1, 2012)

"Ultra-marathon runner Micah True, missing for four days in the rugged wilderness of New Mexico, was found dead on Saturday, police said.

True, 58, was found in the mountainous Gila National Forest in southwest New Mexico, near the Arizona border in the early evening, said Tom Bemis, incident commander with the New Mexico State Police.

Nicknamed "Caballo Blanco," or White Horse, True became a celebrity after he was featured in the best-selling book "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall."

I started having fun while running because of this man. He was my idol. He showed us how to be happier.

"If I were to be remembered for anything at all, I would want that to be that I am/was authentic. No Mas. Run Free!" - Micah True



24653483361 said:


> I just ran a 6:58 mile today with a 3:30ish split half mile. I have a week break coming up and I want to train a lot and get my mile time down. But I also want to make sure I don't injure myself. So if you train barefoot, is it okay to wear running shoes at your race?



If you want to train barefoot and race in shoes, you must have a balance between both. Some simpler workouts barefoot and workouts that are actually running a mile, you might want to do in shoes. 
Remember to start small if youre new to barefoot. Jog 7 mins for that week(Could be warm up jog). Even though that seems like very little, it does a lot. 



Sahid Velji said:


> http://news.runnersworld.com/2012/0...ebook-_-RunnersWorld-_-Content-Blog-_-Vibrams


 
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Cons...uit-woman-sues-toning-shoes/story?id=12927314


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## Ickathu (Jul 16, 2012)

Did this die?
Anyway, I'm going for a 15 minute run tomorrow (starting a 5k training program) and I wanted to know if that is too long to start off barefoot running. I was talking to a friend and he said that he tried barefoot once on just a 1 mile run (7 min) and it totally destroyed and tore up his feet. Suggestions? I don't really want to get injured on my very first day of training. I've been running recently - not far, but maybe 1 mile 2-3 times a week, but I wear shoes, so this would be a total shift. Should I just try running on my toes, like you run barefoot?


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## applemobile (Jul 16, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> 200,000 BC Humans appear on earth..Barefoot.
> 8,000 BC We finally figure out how to make sandals.
> So thousand of years, no problems. ]




>implying the world is older than 5,000 years.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 16, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> Did this die?
> Anyway, I'm going for a 15 minute run tomorrow (starting a 5k training program) and I wanted to know if that is too long to start off barefoot running. I was talking to a friend and he said that he tried barefoot once on just a 1 mile run (7 min) and it totally destroyed and tore up his feet. Suggestions? I don't really want to get injured on my very first day of training. I've been running recently - not far, but maybe 1 mile 2-3 times a week, but I wear shoes, so this would be a total shift. Should I just try running on my toes, like you run barefoot?



start off really slow. like 7 minutes. or less. then if you want, put your shoes back on and keep running.

the first day, i went 20 minutes. I ended up with blood blisters and couldnt walk right for the next 4 days. 
so, take it slow, build up muscles(you dont use all your muscles when running with shoes) and build up skin. 

Ive been running shoes my entire life. Track team and everything with shoes. I switched almost a year ago. Its never too late to switch to barefoot. 

yeah i go bare.

--------------
humans havent been around since the beginning of the world.

-------------
Other running tips.

If you want to run better and recover faster, eat fruits. Like oranges.
Dont take those [email protected] powders and gels and whatnot. Those dont work and are not good for you. stick to fruits.


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 18, 2012)

Slowly build up your time on your feet.

Although barefoot running is just a hype. Try running with and without shoes. Don't get caught up in (ZOMG IT'S BAREFOOT IM SO UNUSUAL AND COOL) mindset. 

If you choose no shoes, realize that you will have to be cautious about buildup. Your body is too used to support in shoes. It's not even accustomed to running and the tolls it takes on your body.

I run ~50mpw, around 7 hours a week. I doubt I could run 10 mpw consistantly barefoot.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 18, 2012)

RyanReese09 said:


> Slowly build up your time on your feet.
> 
> Although barefoot running is just a hype. Try running with and without shoes. Don't get caught up in (ZOMG IT'S BAREFOOT IM SO UNUSUAL AND COOL) mindset.
> 
> ...



i used to run about 60kpw, all barefoot. Its all about getting used to it. 

i dont like running during the winter. lmao


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 18, 2012)

I'm the opposite. I love winter, hate summer.

But yeah I'm just saying if he DOES decide barefoot, be cautious. You are more likely to get injured than those who wear shoes with support.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 18, 2012)

RyanReese09 said:


> But yeah I'm just saying if he DOES decide barefoot, be cautious. You are more likely to get injured than those who wear shoes with support.



This is true. Beginners have to be very careful. But once you get the hang of it. It will be very fun.


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## IanTheCuber (Jul 21, 2012)

One reason I don't walk barefoot on hot concrete: second degree burns... D:

EDIT: I AM STILL ALIVE! Just sayin'...


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## PandaCuber (Jul 22, 2012)

IanTheCuber said:


> One reason I don't *walk* barefoot on hot concrete: second degree burns... D:
> 
> EDIT: I AM STILL ALIVE! Just sayin'...



So run 

Cool. Im glad.


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## Ickathu (Jul 22, 2012)

I ran 4 times last week, all with shoes (but did a few minutes on monday and tuesday barefoot. Maybe 10min total). Monday - 15 minutes, tuesday - 2 miles, thursday - 15 min, saturday - 25 min.

Today, my knees are killing me.
Is this because I'm just a newbie runner or because I'm running with shoes? I was talking to some other runner friends and they said that barefoot running is bad for you because it is really hard on your knees and totally destroys them. Truth?
Should I start running barefoot, or will that make my knees worse? I don't have _running_ shoes. I've just got tennis shoes/sneakers from target or walmart or somewhere that I've been running in.


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## uvafan (Jul 22, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> I ran 4 times last week, all with shoes (but did a few minutes on monday and tuesday barefoot. Maybe 10min total). Monday - 15 minutes, tuesday - 2 miles, thursday - 15 min, saturday - 25 min.
> 
> Today, my knees are killing me.
> Is this because I'm just a newbie runner or because I'm running with shoes? I was talking to some other runner friends and they said that barefoot running is bad for you because it is really hard on your knees and totally destroys them. Truth?
> Should I start running barefoot, or will that make my knees worse? I don't have _running_ shoes. I've just got tennis shoes/sneakers from target or walmart or somewhere that I've been running in.



I don't think that you should be worried about it too much. Sometimes when I run my knees hurt, but I'm pretty sure it's just growing pains. It goes away whenever I race...

anyway, my philosophy is, don't worry about pains unless they're really serious. Just run.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 22, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> I ran 4 times last week, all with shoes (but did a few minutes on monday and tuesday barefoot. Maybe 10min total). Monday - 15 minutes, tuesday - 2 miles, thursday - 15 min, saturday - 25 min.
> 
> Today, my knees are killing me.
> Is this because I'm just a newbie runner or because I'm running with shoes? I was talking to some other runner friends and they said that barefoot running is bad for you because it is really hard on your knees and totally destroys them. Truth?
> Should I start running barefoot, or will that make my knees worse? I don't have _running_ shoes. I've just got tennis shoes/sneakers from target or walmart or somewhere that I've been running in.



Its a myth that barefoot running is bad for your knees. Actually the opposite, they make them stronger.
Honestly I busted my knee running (barefoot of course), but that was because I went from 50k a week to 70k. (31 miles to 43 miles)

Your knee probably hurts because you most likely dont know how to run. 
Here are some things to check for while running(Spoiler)


Spoiler: Tips Bro



Most important of them all, to be landing on the ball of your foot! DO NOT LAND ON YOUR HEELS! Just remember that when youre running, heels= pain. (Incase you dont know, ball of foot is that part of your foot between toes and heel. That ball, yeah midfoot.)
Secondly, bend your knees just a little. That way a lot more impact is not shot up to your hips and back. 
Ive also noticed that something key is silence. Try to be as quiet as possible. Ninja running. 
Leaning forward. This is kinda common sense, lean forward and gravity will 'push' you forward. 
Lastly, dont take long leaps. Have small, short, quick strides. This is actually proven by science to make running easier and more efficient.



If youre in pain(like serious cant walk pain) the next day, take that day off. Dont try to push yourrself. 

One last thing. Big running shoe companies like Nike, Reebok and others are lying to you. You dont need all that overrated 'technology' that they sell you extremely expensive. You can run in anything as long as they have little between you and the floor. And something that wont fly off when youre running. 

Any more conerns?


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## Ickathu (Jul 23, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Its a myth that barefoot running is bad for your knees. Actually the opposite, they make them stronger.
> Honestly I busted my knee running (barefoot of course), but that was because I went from 50k a week to 70k. (31 miles to 43 miles)
> 
> Your knee probably hurts because you most likely dont know how to run.
> ...



Im supposed to run 20 minutes tomorrow. Is that too far for a first real barefoot run? Should I take sandals or something with me to put on after 8 minutes or so? As for being quiet, I can do that. Just the couple of times that I did it this past week that was the first thing I noticed. I was nearly dead silent.
Isn't the ball of your foot just behind your toes, like what stays down when you do squAts? How small should my stride be? I noticed a big improvement in both time and decreased tiredness when I decreased my pace (the speed of my feet) and added on 6 inches to the stride length.

Oh, is the benefit of running barefoot the barefoot aspect or the running form you get from running barefoot?


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## PandaCuber (Jul 23, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> Im supposed to run 20 minutes tomorrow. Is that too far for a first real barefoot run? Should I take sandals or something with me to put on after 8 minutes or so? As for being quiet, I can do that. Just the couple of times that I did it this past week that was the first thing I noticed. I was nearly dead silent.
> Isn't the ball of your foot just behind your toes, like what stays down when you do squAts? How small should my stride be? I noticed a big improvement in both time and decreased tiredness when I decreased my pace (the speed of my feet) and added on 6 inches to the stride length.
> 
> Oh, is the benefit of running barefoot the barefoot aspect or the running form you get from running barefoot?



20 minutes is WAY too much. Do 10 like 3-5 times a week then the next week bump to 15 and so on.
You can do 10 mins then put your shoes on and do another 10.

Both. It has so many benefits. Youll see during your first month.


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 25, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Its a myth that barefoot running is bad for your knees. Actually the opposite, they make them stronger.
> Honestly I busted my knee running (barefoot of course), but that was because I went from 50k a week to 70k. (31 miles to 43 miles)


Running destroys knees. You're wrong.
And that's also a very dangerous approach to increase mileage. You shouldn't increase mileage more than 10% a week to be safe.


> Your knee probably hurts because you most likely dont know how to run.
> Here are some things to check for while running
> 
> 
> ...


You have me confused. You say not to land in the space between the toes and heel. That's midfoot. If you don't want people landing there, you are an ***** and you should stop giving advice. In the video below, you are also told WHY it's bad to land on the heel/ball of foot.
Back to basics for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ghOr78FcU
Ryan Hall is my idol. Worship his ground


> Secondly, bend your knees just a little. That way a lot more impact is not shot up to your hips and back.
> Ive also noticed that something key is silence. Try to be as quiet as possible. Ninja running.


It's painful to not run without bended knees. And "ninja running"...you shouldn't slam the ground, if that's what you mean. To make the people recieving this advice, not be confused.


> Leaning forward. This is kinda common sense, lean forward and gravity will 'push' you forward.


This is horrible advice unless you are going up a hill. If you run down a hill you just try to maintain balance and not fall over.

If you bend over a bit your back will have issues in due times. Keep a straight back, engage your core. You're putting too much stress on your back by leaning


> Lastly, dont take long leaps. Have small, short, quick strides. This is actually proven by science to make running easier and more efficient.
> [/SPOILER]


Finally something I agree with! Aim for an optimal 180 cadence. That's 180 steps a minute. Count during the heart of your run.


> If youre in pain(like serious cant walk pain) the next day, take that day off. Dont try to push yourrself.
> 
> One last thing. Big running shoe companies like Nike, Reebok and others are lying to you. You dont need all that overrated 'technology' that they sell you extremely expensive. You can run in anything as long as they have little between you and the floor. And something that wont fly off when youre running.
> 
> Any more conerns?


No. No. It's not overrated technology. It's called having shoes that have the proper support that you need. Some people don't need any support at all. Their feet are made that way. That's fine. That does NOT MEAN that everyone else will be fine having no proper support. 



Ickathu said:


> Oh, is the benefit of running barefoot the barefoot aspect or the running form you get from running barefoot?


It's just the barefoot aspect. There is no fitness gains you get from running barefoot. Most people only do barefoot because they feel a connection with the earth. It's cool to just go out, not needing shoes, and run.



PandaCuber said:


> Both. It has so many benefits. Youll see during your first month.


You would see no better fitness gains running barefoot apposed to with shoes. Your argument is invalid.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 25, 2012)

RyanReese09 said:


> Running destroys knees. You're wrong.
> And that's also a very dangerous approach to increase mileage. You shouldn't increase mileage more than 10% a week to be safe.


It makes your cartalidge stronger. 




> You have me confused. You say not to land in the space between the toes and heel. That's midfoot. If you don't want people landing there, you are an ***** and you should stop giving advice. In the video below, you are also told WHY it's bad to land on the heel/ball of foot.
> Back to basics for you.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ghOr78FcU
> Ryan Hall is my idol. Worship his ground



Youre supposed to land midfoot(also known as ball of foot).. Never land on your heel.



> It's painful to not run without bended knees. And "ninja running"...you shouldn't slam the ground, if that's what you mean. To make the people recieving this advice, not be confused.



try ninja running and slamming your feet. i dare you.



> This is horrible advice unless you are going up a hill. If you run down a hill you just try to maintain balance and not fall over.



You should lean into a hill. also down a hill. just dont throw yourseelf. 


> You would see no better fitness gains running barefoot apposed to with shoes. Your argument is invalid.



Ive run for 2 years on high school track team and i got absolutely no muscle gain. Also couldnt run more than 4 miles even if i tried. 
Started barefoot and after 3 months, my calfs blew up and they look like ive been running for years. Now i am capable of running marathon distance. painless.


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 25, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> It makes your cartalidge stronger.


No it doesn't. It causes cartilage lesions.


Youre supposed to land midfoot(also known as ball of foot).. Never land on your heel.


[/quote]
Ball of your foot is near the toes. Case in point, look at this random thread where someone asks.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080711063509AAONhiJ

You have the wrong idea about what it's called. Thus this confusion. It's called midfoot. Not ball of foot. Those are two separate areas.



> try ninja running and slamming your feet. i dare you.


I was clarifying? But I could easily go to a soft surface area and slam my feet while running. It would still be quiet.



> You should lean into a hill. also down a hill. just dont throw yourseelf.


That depends on the incline grade on the hill. Too much of a downward slope and you won't be able to control yourself if you lean


> Ive run for 2 years on high school track team and i got absolutely no muscle gain. Also couldnt run more than 4 miles even if i tried.


That's not due to the shoes. That's due to shitty coaching. 


> Started barefoot and after 3 months, my calfs blew up and they look like ive been running for years. Now i am capable of running marathon distance. painless.


Barefoot works different muscles than with shoes. And no, you can not run marathon distance painless. That sentence just doesn't work. I've done a marathon, and it's physically IMPOSSIBLE to run that distance with no pain. You're comparing apples and oranges here. You can not say with a straight face that you get better cardiovascular gains with or without shoes. 

I will say that different muscles are worked when not barefoot. Anyone who has seen my calves say that they are completely jacked. Case in point-on IRC we all posted pictures of our calves one night. I forget why.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2na5i0j.png

Calf size is just genetics anyway.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 25, 2012)

Running a marathon without pain is totally possible. The question is if youre gunna sprint 20 miles. Thats another story.


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## shelley (Jul 25, 2012)

Why is that a story at all? Sprinting 20 miles is impossible.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 25, 2012)

shelley said:


> Why is that a story at all? Sprinting 20 miles is impossible.



when is comes to running. I dont like to use the word impossible. its all possible.


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 26, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Running a marathon without pain is totally possible. The question is if youre gunna sprint 20 miles. Thats another story.


No it's not. Stop trying to say it's possible to have no pain. I GUARENTEE you that you have never done a marathon before. The mere fact you're trying to say it's painless is proof. It doesn't matter if you do the marathon at a race pace or not. It doesn't matter if you do a glacially slow 10 minute mile the entire time. YOUR MUSCLES FATIGUE. THERE WILL BE PAIN.



shelley said:


> Why is that a story at all? Sprinting 20 miles is impossible.


BUT. BUT. THAT'S IMPOSSIBRUH.


PandaCuber said:


> when is comes to running. I dont like to use the word impossible. its all possible.


Stop...please. We both know sprinting 20 miles is impossible. Even the marathon UWR (2:03.xx) is sub 4:50 pace. That's not even close to sprint for him. Sprint would be around 3 minute mile pace. IF NOT FASTER.

First of all, we have to get the mile time to sub 3:40 first. Not to mention trying to even sustain that for 26.2 miles. 
*sigh*. I think I need to stop. I'm getting a headache typing this out. I shouldn't need to.


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## RaresB (Jul 26, 2012)

RyanReese09 said:


> It doesn't matter if you do a glacially slow 10 minute mile the entire time.


 that's my 5k pace you hurt my feelings lol


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 26, 2012)

pwnAge said:


> that's my 5k pace you hurt my feelings lol



Lol I'm sorry about that.

I'll just say that even if you go a pace that is glacially slow to you, and your HR doesn't even get pushed, there will be pain.


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## RaresB (Jul 26, 2012)

RyanReese09 said:


> Lol I'm sorry about that.
> 
> I'll just say that even if you go a pace that is glacially slow to you, and your HR doesn't even get pushed, there will be pain.



Don't worry I dont really run and when I do its very casual, I would have no clue how fast I would go in a race but yea its an easy pace and thats the way I like it


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## PandaCuber (Jul 26, 2012)

Okay okay okay this ends here.

I suggest people should run. I dont care if you run barefoot, with shoes on, with sandals, or with army boots; I just want more people to run.
Running is such as majestic, primitive, calming(etc) activity that I think everyone should have the privilege of doing. 

If you just started running, I suggest you visit your local running team and join it. That way youll find friends and a coach to help fix your form. 
(WARNING! Running coaches that have run in shoes for their entire life will be against you for the first few weeks, if you run barefoot.) 

I made this thread to share my personal help. Let me remind you that im not a personal trainer nor a running guru. Im just sharing ideas that help me run and love running.

Keep on running.


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## Ickathu (Jul 29, 2012)

I run a 10:40-11:30 mile.

anyway, cool. For now I'm gonna stick to shoes. But since there isn't another general running thread, I'm asking this here...

Are these training programs overly intense? It seems like they increase pretty rapidly IMO.



Spoiler: 5k



http://www.marathonrookie.com/5k-training.html
Week 1:

Monday - Run/Walk 15 minutes, Tuesday - Run/Walk 2 miles, Wednesday - Off, Thursday - Run/Walk 15 minutes, Friday - Off, Saturday - Run/Walk 25 minutes, Sunday - Off

Week 2:

Monday - Run 20 minutes, Tuesday - Run/Walk 2 miles, Wednesday - Off, Thursday - Run/Walk 20 minutes, Friday - Off, Saturday - Run/Walk 35 minutes, Sunday - Off

Week 3:

Monday - Run 25 minutes, Tuesday - Run/Walk 2 miles, Wednesday - Off, Thursday - Run/Walk 25 minutes, Friday - Off, Saturday - Run 30 minutes, Sunday - Off

Week 4:

Monday - Run 25 minutes, Tuesday - Run 2 miles, Wednesday - Off, Thursday - Run 30 minutes, Friday - Off, Saturday - Run 45 minutes, Sunday - Off

Week 5:

Monday - Run 20 minutes, Tuesday - Run 20 minutes, Wednesday - Off, Thursday – Run/Walk 15 minutes, Friday - Off, Saturday – Race Day, Sunday – Off





Spoiler: half-marathon



http://www.marathonrookie.com/half-marathon-training.html

10-Week Half Marathon Training Schedule
Week	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun	Total
1	3	Rest	3	3	Rest	4	Rest	13
2	3	Rest	4	3	Rest	5	Rest	15
3	3	Rest	4	3	Rest	6	Rest	16
4	3	Rest	5	3	Rest	8	Rest	19
5	3	Rest	5	3	Rest	10	Rest	21
6	4	Rest	5	4	Rest	11	Rest	24
7	4	Rest	6	4	Rest	12	Rest	26
8	4	Rest	5	4	Rest	9	Rest	22
9	3	Rest	4	3	Rest	8	Rest	18
10	3	Rest	3	Walk 2	Rest	13.1	Rest	21.1





Spoiler: marathon



http://www.marathonrookie.com/marathon-training.html

16-Week Marathon Training Schedule
Week	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun	Total
1	3	Rest	4	3	Rest	5	Rest	15
2	3	Rest	4	3	Rest	6	Rest	16
3	3	Rest	4	3	Rest	7	Rest	17
4	3	Rest	5	3	Rest	8	Rest	19
5	3	Rest	5	3	Rest	10	Rest	21
6	4	Rest	5	4	Rest	11	Rest	24
7	4	Rest	6	4	Rest	12	Rest	26
8	4	Rest	6	4	Rest	14	Rest	28
9	4	Rest	7	4	Rest	16	Rest	31
10	5	Rest	8	5	Rest	16	Rest	34
11	5	Rest	8	5	Rest	17	Rest	35
12	5	Rest	8	5	Rest	18	Rest	36
13	5	Rest	8	5	Rest	20	Rest	38
14	5	Rest	8	5	Rest	9	Rest	27
15	3	Rest	5	3	Rest	8	Rest	19
16	3	Rest	3	Walk 2	Rest	26.2	Rest	34.2


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## PandaCuber (Jul 29, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> I run a 10:40-11:30 mile.



So youre a new runner basically. I personally think you should stick to the 5k program. 
When you start progressing, move on to 10k, then half, then full. 

I would say that on week 3, move on to 30 minutes. (If you run 10 min mile, your 5k would be a round 30 mins, so race distance). 
then week 4 back to 25. with saturdays on 35. 

(But then again, if youre going to race in 5 weeks, stick to that plan.)


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## Ickathu (Jul 30, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> So youre a new runner basically. I personally think you should stick to the 5k program.
> When you start progressing, move on to 10k, then half, then full.
> 
> I would say that on week 3, move on to 30 minutes. (If you run 10 min mile, your 5k would be a round 30 mins, so race distance).
> ...



I'm not actually running a 5k any time soon. I was planning on dropping off the 5th week and going straight to either the 10k or half marathon. You think I should do the 10k first even though the half marathon starts with runs that I'll be able to do? It seems kind of like back-tracking to train to be able to run ~6 miles and then drop back for a few weeks only running 3 or 4 per run.

Is it bad for my muscles to go up to a track on my off days and run barefoot for a few weeks until I start running these scheduled runs barefoot? I was thinking I could start with 1 lap on wednesday, then 1 on friday, 2 on sunday, 3 wed, 3 or 4 friday, etc, building up slowly and then going into big (4 mile. _real_ big /sarcasm) runs barefoot?


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## PandaCuber (Jul 30, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> I'm not actually running a 5k any time soon. I was planning on dropping off the 5th week and going straight to either the 10k or half marathon. You think I should do the 10k first even though the half marathon starts with runs that I'll be able to do? It seems kind of like back-tracking to train to be able to run ~6 miles and then drop back for a few weeks only running 3 or 4 per run.
> 
> Is it bad for my muscles to go up to a track on my off days and run barefoot for a few weeks until I start running these scheduled runs barefoot? I was thinking I could start with 1 lap on wednesday, then 1 on friday, 2 on sunday, 3 wed, 3 or 4 friday, etc, building up slowly and then going into big (4 mile. _real_ big /sarcasm) runs barefoot?



I dont think you should jump into something too fast. You might hurt yourself. 
Its better to start small and build up slowly. Your body will thank you. 

On off days, its okay to do a lap(400m), but dont do it every off day. (Ex, if you have 3 off, just do 1) . Youre body needs a day.


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## Hadley4000 (Jul 30, 2012)

I'm sure someone has said this in here, but I personally rock the five fingers.


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## PandaCuber (Jul 30, 2012)

Hadley4000 said:


> I'm sure someone has said this in here, but I personally rock the five fingers.



#Winning


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## RyanReese09 (Jul 31, 2012)

Hadley4000 said:


> I'm sure someone has said this in here, but I personally rock the five fingers.


I have a pair of those. Wore it for a month or two to strengthen my feet.


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## Ickathu (Aug 9, 2012)

I seriously injured my foot tonight at karate. I can't even hobble around on it, so I don't think I can run for at least a week, if it's just sprained, and probably near a month if it's broken. How do I maintain all of what I've been training on so I don't have to start over the 5k program? Saturday was supposed to be the end of the training program (for me, at least. There's one more week, but it's a tone-down rest week if I were actually running a 5k soon), so I'm so close to being done.
Does my question make sense?


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## PandaCuber (Aug 9, 2012)

You want to know how to maintain your physique without running since you hurt your foot. Right?

The only thing you could do is either Cycle or Swim. 
Both are very good for cardio.


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## RyanReese09 (Aug 9, 2012)

In the end, nothing can replace running. You will come back not as strong as a runner as before.

You don't lose fitness until about 1-2 weeks but it's insanely easy to get that back upon starting back up.

It really depends on how long you are out of the game.


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## Ickathu (Aug 9, 2012)

I'll try biking later and see if I can do that. I know I can't totally replace running, but I can do some cross training stuff to maintain some of my cardio and leg strength


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## RyanReese09 (Aug 10, 2012)

Sometimes cross training is the key to get better running fitness. Biking certainly does work on leg cadence and could help.

Supplemental programs such as biking can help, and have been proven to be good supplements.

I choose to lift and do leg workouts. It helps your running economy and I'd like to have a bit of tone to my body.


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