# Should WCA replace Stackmat timers with smart cubes?



## RiceMan_ (Dec 12, 2020)

Since smart cubes are getting more and more popular I would like to know if WCA should start using smart cubes in competition to time solves instead of the stackmat timer? I think it would be a good and bad idea it would be good because it's more accurate but it would be more expensive to provide Ipads and not everyone has a smart cube.


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## ProStar (Dec 12, 2020)

No, because almost all smart cubes suck and almost all the ones that don't suck have awful software. People's solves would be way worse and the judging would be much more inconsistent and prone to mistakes. Not to mention that a decent smart cube is expensive.

Once smart cubes become common place and they work properly and they aren't super expensive, then maybe. However, there's still a big issue with people easily being able to cheat by simply connecting their phone to their cube while the scramblers have it, as well as other relatively simple and untraceable ways of cheating.

In a perfect world, it would be great to use Smart Cubes instead of StackMats. But there's wayyyy too many issues and won't be happening soon


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## OreKehStrah (Dec 12, 2020)

I think swapping to using a keyboard-based timer would be the better option.
People wouldn’t need expensive cubes that don’t perform as well as a regular cube, and a lot of benefits are possible.
The first is that it reduces some variance from solves, and makes them more accurate. Using stackmats affects times because of pickup time. This alone can directly influence the solution one might use. Using a keyboard based timer would allow the solver to start pretty much instantly after starting the timer, depending on implementation.
The second more interesting and compelling reason imo, is that custom software could be used to keep track of each competitor and automatically do things like calculate averages and stats, auto upload results to cubecomps, etc. there’s room for a lot of really interesting possibilities.


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## Jam88 (Dec 12, 2020)

It is all dependent on hardware advancements IMO.


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## qwr (Dec 12, 2020)

Make a poll 

my vote is no.


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## Hazel (Dec 13, 2020)

Short term, no. Long-term, probably. Hardware and software would need to advance quite a bit first.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Dec 13, 2020)

No. Hardware isn't good or accessible enough.


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## cubeshepherd (Dec 13, 2020)

RiceMan_ said:


> Since smart cubes are getting more and more popular I would like to know if WCA should start using smart cubes in competition to time solves instead of the stackmat timer? I think it would be a good and bad idea it would be good because it's more accurate but it would be more expensive to provide Ipads and not everyone has a smart cube.


No I don't think that is a good idea, not only due to the reasons mentioned above, but also this WCA regulation: 3a4) Puzzles must not have electronic components (e.g. Bluetooth or Wi-Fi capabilities, motors, sensors, lights). See Regulation 2i. 
 2i) While competing, competitors must not use electronics or audio equipment (e.g. cell phones, MP3 players, dictaphones, additional lighting) apart from the Stackmat timer or stopwatch.


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## Kit Clement (Dec 13, 2020)

OreKehStrah said:


> Using a keyboard based timer would allow the solver to start pretty much instantly after starting the timer, depending on implementation.



It also destandardizes the pickup: is the cube in your hand, on the keyboard, in front of the keyboard? Are both hands on the spacebar? This makes judging harder and makes our timing system less reliable as it induces more variability in the pickup. You can eliminate pickup in the time by having it start in their hands, but you have no good way to prevent people from making moves before starting the timer.

Smart cubes are definitely not the answer in the next 5 years, at least, if ever. We only have semi-reliable smart cubes in one puzzle, and they almost universally perform worse than non-smart cubes.


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## abunickabhi (Dec 13, 2020)

Lucas is working on developing apps and some regulation workaround to introduce smart cubes to competing. It will take a while before it gets introduced to WCA competitions.

Red bull will be using it though for next year's qualifiers most likely.


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## DNF_Cuber (Dec 13, 2020)

abunickabhi said:


> Lucas is working on developing apps and some regulation workaround to introduce smart cubes to competing. It will take a while before it gets introduced to WCA competitions.
> 
> Red bull will be using it though for next year's qualifiers most likely.


Garron?


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## abunickabhi (Dec 14, 2020)

DNF_Cuber said:


> Garron?


Yes Lucas Garron. He has contributed a lot to speedcubing, S U' R' U' S U' S' U2 R S' U .


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## JakeCanSolve (Dec 14, 2020)

Maybe in 10 year it would be a good idea (when smartcubes are better) but not now.


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## FishyIshy (Dec 14, 2020)

RiceMan_ said:


> Since smart cubes are getting more and more popular I would like to know if WCA should start using smart cubes in competition to time solves instead of the stackmat timer? I think it would be a good and bad idea it would be good because it's more accurate but it would be more expensive to provide Ipads and not everyone has a smart cube.


NOOOOO!! Smart cubes are getting lighter, but their quality is still not as good as normal cubes in general


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## One Wheel (Dec 14, 2020)

Electronic Stackmat (or similar) timers are a necessary concession for a competition that should be basically analogue/physical. It's not a question of hardware quality or availability/price, or of cheating (although those are sufficient reasons to ban smart cubes from competition). It's the fact that smart cubes as a learning or practice tool are fine, but for competition they fundamentally change the nature of the competition.


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## MJS Cubing (Dec 14, 2020)

The main reason smart cubes are banned is because you could theoretically use your phone to get extra inspection, which can lead to an advantage, because you can plan more. (Regulation 3a4 https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#3a4)
Something else that could be undesirable would be having to pay for tablets for competitors instead of timers, which are much less expensive, and connecting smart cubes to said tablets would be difficult. Another thing is that Smart cubes themselves are expensive.


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## SH03L4C3 (Jan 14, 2021)

I really love this idea but there are too many holes in the cheese...


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## CrispyCubing (Jan 14, 2021)

SH03L4C3 said:


> I really love this idea but there are too many holes in the cheese...


mmm yes I agree:


Spoiler



Swiss cheese is gross


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## carcass (Jan 14, 2021)

maybe with red bull possibly doing it, it will add competition to the WCA, for the better or worse


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## PapaSmurf (Jan 14, 2021)

Cubing is already a realtively expensive hobby from cubes such as the Gan line (thankfully cubes like the RS3 exist), travelling to and from comps which will be a lot rarer in poorer areas and having hardware to run timing software, many things we take for granted. Having cubes suddenly become a lot more expensive and require an app that can only be used on a smartphone makes this even more of a problem. As previously mentioned, there are also practical issues when ignoring cost, but combined, they give a very good case for this being a bad idea. Smart cubes can be useful, but not as a timing system for the WCA.


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## abunickabhi (Jan 15, 2021)

PapaSmurf said:


> Cubing is already a realtively expensive hobby from cubes such as the Gan line (thankfully cubes like the RS3 exist), travelling to and from comps which will be a lot rarer in poorer areas and having hardware to run timing software, many things we take for granted. Having cubes suddenly become a lot more expensive and require an app that can only be used on a smartphone makes this even more of a problem. As previously mentioned, there are also practical issues when ignoring cost, but combined, they give a very good case for this being a bad idea. Smart cubes can be useful, but not as a timing system for the WCA.


I agree that Cubing is an expensive hobby. If we include more technology at competitions it will get more expensive. Also, WCA works as a non-profit, so the funds in the pool is always going to be less.


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## Cubertix (Jan 15, 2021)

No, maybe in the future, but not now.


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## MJS Cubing (Jan 15, 2021)

PapaSmurf said:


> Cubing is already a realtively expensive hobby from cubes such as the Gan line (thankfully cubes like the RS3 exist), travelling to and from comps which will be a lot rarer in poorer areas and having hardware to run timing software, many things we take for granted. Having cubes suddenly become a lot more expensive and require an app that can only be used on a smartphone makes this even more of a problem. As previously mentioned, there are also practical issues when ignoring cost, but combined, they give a very good case for this being a bad idea. Smart cubes can be useful, but not as a timing system for the WCA.


I think cubing is much less expensive than other hobbies. You can buy ever cube you need (except from Gan) for a couple hundred dollars, compared to thousands. But, aren’t they all they all the same?
*cough cough* Cars, Bikes, R/C Hobbies, Fishing etc.


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## DNF_Cuber (Jan 15, 2021)

MJS Cubing said:


> *cough cough* Cars, Bikes, R/C Hobbies, Fishing etc.


Fishing is cheap, because take it from a pro, 
that spider man rod from five below,
is gonna hook those fish like ya'd never know!

^Freestyling
But anyway cubing is pretty cheap.


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## MJS Cubing (Jan 15, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> Fishing is cheap, because take it from a pro,
> that spider man rod from five below,
> is gonna hook those fish like ya'd never know!
> 
> ...


As an avid fisherman, I can say the Barbie rod at your local Walmart is very high end.


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## SH03L4C3 (Jan 15, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> Fishing is cheap, because take it from a pro,
> that spider man rod from five below,
> is gonna hook those fish like ya'd never know!
> 
> ...


Cubing is midd-range because you don't need expensive lessons like other hobbies, but hardware can get expensive


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## DNF_Cuber (Jan 15, 2021)

SH03L4C3 said:


> Cubing is midd-range because you don't need expensive lessons like other hobbies, but hardware can get expensive


the hardware is not that expensive. You can get a great 3x3 for like $8 but a guitar can easily cost hundreds of $'s


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## SH03L4C3 (Jan 15, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> the hardware is not that expensive. You can get a great 3x3 for like $8 but a guitar can easily cost hundreds of $'s


I agree, but clocks and 6x6 can start to get expensive


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## PapaSmurf (Jan 15, 2021)

Cubing is cheap for the typical American, not for many people in many countries. To be in the global top 1%, you need to earn about $35k per year which is below average for America, but well above average for most of Africa for example. That's also why you have very few african cubers, and the ones who are are from the wealthier parts of relatively wealthy countries. We don't want to exclude more people.


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## OreKehStrah (Jan 15, 2021)

Here’s my argument against the use of smart cubes:

1. It is likely the hardware will perform worse than a standard cube. The gap in performance will likely go down but I don’t think they will ever be equal. Even then, normal cubes would be lighter than smart cubes.
2. Even if smart cubes can get to be equal in performance, the electronics would add cost to any base cube.


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## RoundUpCubing (Jan 15, 2021)

1. Smart cubes will perform worse than normal cubes
2. Scrambles could be inspected pre solve (hackerman moment)
3.theres literally only like 4 smartcubes on the market afaik


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## One Wheel (Feb 4, 2021)

abunickabhi said:


> I agree that Cubing is an expensive hobby. If we include more technology at competitions it will get more expensive. Also, WCA works as a non-profit, so the funds in the pool is always going to be less.


Speaking as a more-or-less avid cuber who probably owns $2-300 worth of twisty puzzles, and a very casual biker debating spending $1000+ on a second bike, cubing is cheap. That's not an argument for using smart cubes in competition, just saying that as hobbies go cubing is cheap.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Feb 4, 2021)

Yes


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## abunickabhi (Feb 4, 2021)

One Wheel said:


> Speaking as a more-or-less avid cuber who probably owns $2-300 worth of twisty puzzles, and a very casual biker debating spending $1000+ on a second bike, cubing is cheap. That's not an argument for using smart cubes in competition, just saying that as hobbies go cubing is cheap.


True, but cubing is still quite expensive if you compare it with village sports like kabaddi, kho-kho, cricket, running, wrestling etc. Cubing needs good hardware, and it can get quite expensive sometimes.


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## SH03L4C3 (Feb 4, 2021)

It is quite expensive:


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## minxer293 (Feb 9, 2021)

This would provide a very unfair advantage to those who can shell out the money to get one of these, as it eliminates challenges like pickup and putdown, two of the most critical things in some events (eg: pyra, 2x2).

Personally, I don't see this happening anytime soon.


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## PetraPine (Feb 9, 2021)

I eh don't know about this,
a big part of the skill in smaller events is definitely cube pickup, without it the 2x2 world record would literally just be oh I got a four mover and spammed tps slightly better than you haha L.
(basically same with pyra and skewb)
and I just generally see cube pickup as an interesting part of solving and events and think it would be less interesting without it


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## SH03L4C3 (Feb 9, 2021)

minxer293 said:


> This would provide a very unfair advantage to those who can shell out the money to get one of these, as it eliminates challenges like pickup and putdown, two of the most critical things in some events (eg: pyra, 2x2).
> 
> Personally, I don't see this happening anytime soon.


As the concept continues to mature, companies will start to provide cheaper options of that concept
high school finance/marketing classes paying off am i right


However, as I said before: Too many holes in the cheese

plus, what about people who like light cubes?


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## minxer293 (Feb 11, 2021)

SH03L4C3 said:


> As the concept continues to mature, companies will start to provide cheaper options of that concept


Having that much expensive electronics loaded into the cube isn't something you can just make cheaper without barely making a profit.


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## Porcupine01 (Feb 11, 2021)

I have a smartcube (GAN356i) and I can get the cube solved, but the cube on my phone would not be solved, that would be huge problem that would have to be solved...


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## Sub1Hour (Feb 11, 2021)

minxer293 said:


> Having that much expensive electronics loaded into the cube isn't something you can just make cheaper without barely making a profit.


Well as technology advances forward the older technology gets cheaper. It's going to get cheaper, maybe not as cheap as some people like but the price will still go down because you don't need super powerful components for a smart cube.


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## porkyp10 (Feb 11, 2021)

I'd say it'd be pretty unfair considering that if you use a smartcube, you'd start and stop the timer with the cube still in your hands, so no.


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## AlgoCuber (Apr 19, 2021)

I have 33 dollars worth of cubes
$5 2x2 (QiDi S), $20 3x3 (Pro Shop Little Magic M), $8 5x5 (QiZheng S)
Haven't upgraded my choices for 2x2 and 5x5

Cubing can be a cheap hobby too. I can get decent times on the 2x2, fast times on the 3x3, and absolutely horrendous times on the 5x5 because it's so slow, sandy, and has no corner cutting. After cubing on it for 5 minutes my hands get pretty tired (Each solve takes around 5 minutes on this trash cube so I can't really do much on it)

I do not think that smartcubes should be used in official competitions as of now because:
1. Bad tracking (Sometimes when you're done solving it says not solved)
2. Way too expensive. You're paying like 30 dollars extra for the "smart" part of it
3. Prone to cheating. These have to do with the app, inspection, etc.
4. They don't perform as well as non-smart cubes as of now
5. Prone to breaking. If you drop your smartcube on the floor it has a high chance of breaking
6. To turn so many WCA puzzles into smartcubes would be extremely expensive to design

Here are some reasons why smartcubes are better right now, though:
1. More accurate timing (Using a stackmat requires a pickup and setdown)
2. Using a stackmat costs around as much as the added cost of a smartcube (Although if you have other non-smart cubes, that doesn't apply)

Ways how smartcubes can get better in the future
1. Smartcube prices can get cheaper in the future
2. Better software in the future that is more cheat-proof
3. Better tracking in the future that actually counts your solves as solves (You don't want to ruin a PB that way, do you?)
4. More durable smartcubes can be made, although they will be obviously still more prone to breaking than non-smart cubes.
5. Better performing smartcubes can be made in the future
6. All WCA puzzles will be turned into value smartcubes


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## SH03L4C3 (Apr 19, 2021)

I feel like smartcubes are necessary for the future of speedcubing.


Spoiler



Remember I am faster than you framecounted, we both average the same, but my pickup is slow so if we framecount the solves (or use a smart cube), you will find that im faster than you.


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## AlgoCuber (Apr 19, 2021)

SH03L4C3 said:


> I feel like smartcubes are necessary for the future of speedcubing.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Only true alg fans know the reference


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## MJS Cubing (Apr 19, 2021)

Another thing I just thought of, you would need a smart 2x2-7x7, clonk, squan, skoob, pyraminx, mega, and it would be insanely expensive, both to design and buy.


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## abunickabhi (Apr 19, 2021)

MJS Cubing said:


> Another thing I just thought of, you would need a smart 2x2-7x7, clonk, squan, skoob, pyraminx, mega, and it would be insanely expensive, both to design and buy.


I think a smart cube for pyraminx and skewb is not possible, as it is tough to detect all the moves. No place to place sensors in skewb, and tough to sense the tips (although you can have more sensors there, but its not an efficient design).

Same goes for 3x3+, detecting slice moves on 4x4,5x5 and so on is tough. The best bet is instant reconstruction from video feed using computer vision.


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## AlgoCuber (Apr 19, 2021)

How bout the WCA just framecounts everything. But some people don't like being recorded by a camera


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## MJS Cubing (Apr 19, 2021)

AlgoCuber said:


> How bout the WCA just framecounts everything. But some people don't like being recorded by a camera


That would take forever, especially for slower people. There is probably 30 frames a second, that’s 120 frames to count for a 4 second solve, so that wouldn’t be practical. Also, it likely would be a higher frame rate like 60 or even 120 for more accurate results. You can’t turn without starting or after stopping the speed stacks unless you break a rule. The wca has probably thought of all these ideas, after all, it’s been around for longer than most of us.


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## Cuberstache (Apr 19, 2021)

AlgoCuber said:


> How bout the WCA just framecounts everything. But some people don't like being recorded by a camera


The main problem with this is not the time required but the price required to have a camera at every station. Organizers in different parts of the world have different budgets, and it's hard enough for people in some places to get a set of stackmat timers. Requiring a set of cameras would make it much harder or even impossible for competitions to be held in some areas.


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## Pika (Apr 23, 2021)

OreKehStrah said:


> I think swapping to using a keyboard-based timer would be the better option.
> People wouldn’t need expensive cubes that don’t perform as well as a regular cube, and a lot of benefits are possible.
> The first is that it reduces some variance from solves, and makes them more accurate. Using stackmats affects times because of pickup time. This alone can directly influence the solution one might use. Using a keyboard based timer would allow the solver to start pretty much instantly after starting the timer, depending on implementation.
> The second more interesting and compelling reason imo, is that custom software could be used to keep track of each competitor and automatically do things like calculate averages and stats, auto upload results to cubecomps, etc. there’s room for a lot of really interesting possibilities.


Well it's either no touching the cube during starting the timer or we have to go with what we have now since any loopholes in the regulations will be abused.


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## PikachuPlayz_MC (Apr 29, 2021)

My only reason for saying no is that smart cubes are not perfected yet, they have bugs and purely run on bluetooth which can have its faults. Thats just tech for ya. and another thing is, the only really good smart cubes are the gan ones and even then there are better subs that can be set up more to your liking.


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## GodCubing (Jul 19, 2021)

RiceMan_ said:


> Since smart cubes are getting more and more popular I would like to know if WCA should start using smart cubes in competition to time solves instead of the stackmat timer? I think it would be a good and bad idea it would be good because it's more accurate but it would be more expensive to provide Ipads and not everyone has a smart cube.


When Smart cubes become a commodity, yes. However rn not everyone owns a smart cube. Like when they become dirt cheap and everyone mains a smart cube


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## turtwig (Jul 19, 2021)

One other problem with Smartcubes is that it stops the time the moment you solve the cube. On a lot of puzzles you could then learn how to quickly do U4 or something similar so that you wouldn't have to recognize the AUF. Predicting AUF for EG on 2x2 is something that takes time to learn and might immediately become obsolete.
On a more abstract level, I think that recognizing that you have completed a solve is a very important part of solving the cube, even though we usually don't think about it in this way. If the time stops immediately when you get an AUF skip, it seems weird that the time stops before you even realize that you've completed your solve. A more egregious case could be if the cube reaches a solved state in 3BLD, but you had incorrect memo so you end up flipping an edge unnecessarily, etc. It would clearly go against the spirit of the event to count this as a 3BLD success.
Even if many of these problems could eventually be dealt with, overall there are a lot of drawbacks and the only "problem" this seems to solve is that pickup times could be removed from the solve time.


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## GodCubing (Jul 19, 2021)

turtwig said:


> One other problem with Smartcubes is that it stops the time the moment you solve the cube. On a lot of puzzles you could then learn how to quickly do U4 or something similar so that you wouldn't have to recognize the AUF. Predicting AUF for EG on 2x2 is something that takes time to learn and might immediately become obsolete.
> On a more abstract level, I think that recognizing that you have completed a solve is a very important part of solving the cube, even though we usually don't think about it in this way. If the time stops immediately when you get an AUF skip, it seems weird that the time stops before you even realize that you've completed your solve. A more egregious case could be if the cube reaches a solved state in 3BLD, but you had incorrect memo so you end up flipping an edge unnecessarily, etc. It would clearly go against the spirit of the event to count this as a 3BLD success.
> Even if many of these problems could eventually be dealt with, overall there are a lot of drawbacks and the only "problem" this seems to solve is that pickup times could be removed from the solve time.


Yeah there are many problems, I change my vote.


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## stwert (Jul 19, 2021)

How would +2's and DNF's work? I suppose you could argue pros or cons for that. Imagine if someone does an AUF wrong and puts down the cube (or I guess there's no need to put down the cube?) and the timer's still running but they think they're done. Then they recognize the problem and fix it and the timer stops. For a quick cuber this would be less than 2 seconds more, so the penalty is smaller, and I guess DNFs would only be by concession of the contestant. Otherwise they would keep solving until it was done. Again, maybe this is a good thing, as you would have fewer DNFs from a tiny mistake. In other words, a mistake would probably cost you the "win", but would still let you get a half-decent time. I still voted no, lots of challenges.


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## GodCubing (Jul 20, 2021)

Big cube smart cubes are difficult(nearly impossible) to make for speedsolving


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## Melvintnh327 (Sep 22, 2021)

Well don't totally replace it, but do implement it, and maybe have a different wr list for smart cubes.


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## Melvintnh327 (Sep 22, 2021)

MJS Cubing said:


> skoob


don't make fun of skewb


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## minxer293 (Sep 24, 2021)

Melvintnh327 said:


> Well don't totally replace it, but do implement it, and maybe have a different wr list for smart cubes.


No. 

There's no way the WCA is going to go through the trouble of creating an ENTIRELY SEPERATE LIST for Smart Cubes. That's just unfeasable. 

We're either going to completely change to smart cubes, or don't use them at all. There's no in-between in a situation like this


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## gsingh (Jul 20, 2022)

minxer293 said:


> No.
> 
> There's no way the WCA is going to go through the trouble of creating an ENTIRELY SEPERATE LIST for Smart Cubes. That's just unfeasable.
> 
> We're either going to completely change to smart cubes, or don't use them at all. There's no in-between in a situation like this


bumping, cuz this is an interesting thread 
this wont happen for a while, smartcubes are way to expensive and dont turn that well yet. but in the future, i can totally see it happening.
2x2 wr's will go down to like 0.1-0.2 lol


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## ShortStuff (Jul 20, 2022)

I mean, they should keep the stackmat for those who want to use a non-smart cube, and have smart cube as an option,but have people competing with a smart cube like a +0.5s penalty acting as them starting and stopping the timer or some other thing to keep it fair for non-smart cube cubers


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jul 20, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> A 2x2 smartcube would be kinda hard to make though. You'd have to fit the machine inside the ball at the center of the cube, and it might be hard to keep track of the turns. I'm not saying it's impossible though, but it would be hard to make.


wat


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## gsingh (Jul 20, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> A 2x2 smartcube would be kinda hard to make though. You'd have to fit the mechanics inside the ball at the center of the cube, and it might be hard to keep track of the turns. I'm not saying it's impossible though, but it would be hard to make.


go cube and giker both have a 2x2 smartcube








Giiker Super Cube i2 2x2 (Tiled)


The GiiKer Super Cube i2 is the worlds first smart 2x2! With this cube you can battle people from around the world on your smart phone using the Supercube app! There are also features that can guide a beginner on how to solve the puzzle as well as games to keep you entertained! Check out this...




www.thecubicle.com












GoCube 2x2


The GoCube 2x2 is a smart 2x2x2 puzzle that works with the GoCube app! This puzzle is pillowed with colorful tiles surrounded by transparent plastic in the style of the original GoCube. Comes with: GoCube Smart 2x2 Charging cable GoCube puzzle bag




www.thecubicle.com


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## LeviGibson (Nov 29, 2022)

We should not use smart cubes because:
1. Smart cubes are still expensive
2. Differenct companies making different models with different apps will make competing difficult
3. Smart cubes don't exist for any event besides 3x3
4. It's easy to cheat and see the scramble on your phone before you solve

We should not use keyboard because:
It's easy to turn the cube while still pressing down the space bar
Not as spectator friendly
Wildly expensive


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## Lio2010 (Nov 29, 2022)

LeviGibson said:


> 3. Smart cubes don't exist for any event besides 3x3


And 2×2


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## Filipe Teixeira (Nov 29, 2022)

LeviGibson said:


> We should not use smart cubes because:
> 1. Smart cubes are still expensive


laughs in GAN cubes


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## Thom S. (Nov 29, 2022)

+2 with smart cube...


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## PikachuPlayz_MC (Dec 7, 2022)

brings up a really strong point. you legit cannot +2 a smart cube the timer just goes on and on. I say that it would be cool to do an event where you used s smart cube and stack mat maybe as a side event that way it isn't official and can't cause any issues.


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## AJT17 (Dec 7, 2022)

PikachuPlayz_MC said:


> brings up a really strong point. you legit cannot +2 a smart cube the timer just goes on and on. I say that it would be cool to do an event where you used s smart cube and stack mat maybe as a side event that way it isn't official and can't cause any issues.


That would be interesting to see as an unofficial event at some comps, especially with faster cubers where the time difference might matter more, like with Max and Tymon.


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## PikachuPlayz_MC (Dec 7, 2022)

AJT17 said:


> That would be interesting to see as an unofficial event at some comps, especially with faster cubers where the time difference might matter more, like with Max and Tymon.


yeah i think that WCA events should start to really take some notes on Pokemon regional and world champion events because if you have ever been to one of those they do games and side events constantly for people who are just there to hang, dropped, or got eliminated. it makes the place more lively.


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## Cuber.Hello.com(: (Dec 7, 2022)

I like the stackmat more because it's a lot more classic than some dumb old smart cube. Also, if we all had the same cube, then no one would be able to compare or talk about which cubes are best. Think about it. Jperm wouldn't unbox 3x3s because we all have the same one, AND he already unboxed the smartcube. He also wouldn't do it for 2x2s either. No more GAN 2x2... Ugh. Just the idea gives me the shivers. But I might just be cold.


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## Cuber.Hello.com(: (Dec 7, 2022)

PikachuPlayz_MC said:


> yeah i think that WCA events should start to really take some notes on Pokemon regional and world champion events because if you have ever been to one of those they do games and side events constantly for people who are just there to hang, dropped, or got eliminated. it makes the place more lively.


No offense, but what does Pokemon have to do with GoCubes?


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## Thom S. (Dec 8, 2022)

PikachuPlayz_MC said:


> yeah i think that WCA events should start to really take some notes on Pokemon regional and world champion events because if you have ever been to one of those they do games and side events constantly for people who are just there to hang, dropped, or got eliminated. it makes the place more lively.


The problem that organizers and delegates face is that most and I mean most cubers absolutely want all of their results archived for later. You can see older comps where they hosted unofficial events more often have those integrated into the website. Doesn't work that well if you need it custom for most side events.


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## OldSwiss (Dec 8, 2022)

Only Smartcubes would not work because there are to many different cubes on the market.
Maybe they could allow smartcubes in addition to stackmat timers for easier reconstuctions of the solves.
Official timing is the stackmat timer but you can record your solves with smartcubes.

The problem with this is that the cubes need a free scramble mode and the even bigger problem would be that the competitors could see the scramble on their phone before they are allowed to see it.
Maybe they could hand out the phone to the judge but that would make it to complicated.

So i't probably the easiest to stay with the stackmat timers and use smartcubes for special formats like online battles


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## brickinapresent (Dec 27, 2022)

Although smart cubes do give a accurate time, they are quite expensive (i mean i guess stackmats are too) and they can probably be manipulated in some way. Plus cubers would have to get used to smart cubes and smart cubes are even really good in the first place.


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## CatSharked (Jan 4, 2023)

My friend got a gan smart cube and said the app was trash. This would just make people mad, not improve anything.


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## Waqfiqh cubing (Jan 4, 2023)

Noooo no smart cubes I like timer


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## TheSpeedSkewber (Jan 4, 2023)

CatSharked said:


> My friend got a gan smart cube and said the app was trash. This would just make people mad, not improve anything.


The app is underrated. It's actually decent. They had a massive redesign recently and they fixed loads of bugs. Sure it is poorly translated but they are a CUBE COMPANY not an app company. I've only had issues with glitches 2 or 3 times (not including translation or image loading errors).


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## OldSwiss (Jan 4, 2023)

Yes, half a year ago the app was really crappy but they did a big redesign and fixed most of the issues.
It's still not perfect but probably the best smart cube software on the market.

If you don't want to use the GAN Software, you can use





Cubeast - Cubing the Smart way







www.cubeast.com




This works with all smartcubes and is really good.


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## Marz (Jan 4, 2023)

I voted no. However It very well COULD be an alternative. Here is my thought process: When you solve the cube you waste time stopping the timer. So If smart cubes were fast and adjustable, It could be an idea. However in this day and age I don't think smart cubes will be used for a long time.


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## Cuber Score (Jan 4, 2023)

I suppose a smart cube could have its advantages, but there are more cons than pros. Firstly, most people don't own a smart cube, so there would be significantly less people able to participate in competitions as opposed to prior to the change. Secondly, it would cost a lot. Lastly, not everyone does well on other cubes, so a sudden switch due to a change would worsen a lot of cubers' times. So, it's a no for me.


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## Thom S. (Jan 5, 2023)

This thread is just the same 3 arguments over and over every few weeks.


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## ProStar (Jan 5, 2023)

Thom S. said:


> This thread is just the same 3 arguments over and over every few weeks.



It’s been about two years but I still think my original position summed up the argument quite cleanly


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