# Knock Off Puzzles



## Me Myself & Pi (Oct 11, 2009)

I tried posting this on twistypuzzles.com, but they're really sensitive to knock offs & I got very little response. Anyway, since cubeforyou.com is such a popular site, I feel I should address the KO puzzles on there. You may think that this will only increase interest in this puzzles & do more harm the good. But I've recently advertised cubeforyou.com & a few a it's puzzles in a recent video. So anyone who saw that video will go to the website & see the KO's. So it seems the "harm" has already taken place. Now it's time for the "good"!

I want to make a video telling people what puzzles are KO's on cubeforyou, because I'm sure there are a lot of newbies that just don't know, & wouldn't buy them if they didn't know the harm. Then I'll explain the harm that it does buying a KO.

Now, I know some of the KO puzzles, but I want to get all the information, such as:
1) the KO puzzle.
2) explanation that it's a KO.
3) where the puzzle *SHOULD* be bought.
This is where you guys come in. If you guys can answer these questions for as many puzzles as possible on cubeforyou, that'll be great!

But don't worry, I don't plan to address KO's such as the V-Cube KO's. Since many cubers probably haven't even been to the website where they're sold (me for one) I won't address them. I'll just say to only buy it if it has a "V" logo!

- Thanks!


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## qqwref (Oct 11, 2009)

Problem is, there are a lot of "knockoff" puzzles that are copies of a puzzle you can't buy at all. Many of them are made by a single person in very limited quantity and sold for $100+ each, or else not made at all. (Incidentally I believe that the twistypuzzles community gets way too exited/mad about knockoff puzzles.)

A good example is the Fisher Cube... until Meffert and Tony himself made the agreement with the Chinese guys to give Tony some of the revenue, the Fisher Cubes that were being produced were clearly knockoffs but were filling a niche that was not filled at all. You could not buy a Fisher Cube for a reasonable price before the Chinese ones came on the market; afterwards they cost just $10. If you believe that knockoffs are always wrong, sometimes the only moral thing to do is to not own the puzzle at all. Or, take the Super Floppy Cubes, for which there is no mass-production plan at all. There is no real one to buy (the inventor is not selling them), only a knockoff.

So in the end for the Super Floppy Cube it is essentially immoral to own one at all. I really wish the legitimate puzzle companies would start making more puzzles available, because as a collector I really do not appreciate being put in the position of either (a) directly harming puzzle inventors who I respect and would like to support, or (b) not owning a puzzle when many people I know have one.


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## Me Myself & Pi (Oct 11, 2009)

Well I only want to know about the puzzles on cubeforyou. If I mention any other puzzles, that may very well produce more harm then good.

Oh, & what's the difference between a Floppy Cube & a *Super* Floppy Cube?


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## waffle=ijm (Oct 11, 2009)

floppy cube just twists...super floppy changes shape...


Spoiler



I think...better we google it


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## iSpinz (Oct 11, 2009)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Super+floppy+rubiks+cube

Ive always wanted to do that..... Anyway, a super floppy cube appears to be a shape shifting floppy cube


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## Inf3rn0 (Oct 11, 2009)

iSpinz said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Super+floppy+rubiks+cube
> 
> Ive always wanted to do that..... Anyway, a super floppy cube appears to be a shape shifting floppy cube




Ah you forgot a ' in rubik's.


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## qqwref (Oct 11, 2009)

Consider a supercube 3x3 and imagine that you only care about the cubies that start on the E slice. A floppy cube is essentially that cube where you can only do F2, B2, R2, L2. A super floppy cube on the other hand is that cube where you can do any F, B, L, or R move. Remember that only those four centers and those four edges are important.


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## Edmund (Oct 11, 2009)

Isn't every 3x3 puzzle a knock off of the original 3x3? We don't get angry at people who buy other 3x3s.


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## Logan (Oct 11, 2009)

Me Myself & Pi said:


> Oh, & what's the difference between a Floppy Cube & a *Super* Floppy Cube?



I bought a super floppy on C4Y a while back (when I didn't know better).

A floppy cube can only do 180 degree turns.
A SUPER floppy cube can do 90 degree turns.


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## Cyrok215 (Oct 11, 2009)

Edmund said:


> Isn't every 3x3 puzzle a knock off of the original 3x3? We don't get angry at people who buy other 3x3s.



True 'dat!


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## AndyRoo789 (Oct 11, 2009)

Edmund said:


> Isn't every 3x3 puzzle a knock off of the original 3x3? We don't get angry at people who buy other 3x3s.



Not sure, but I think the patent for the original 3x3 rubik's cube already expired.


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## LNZ (Oct 11, 2009)

In a perfect world, there would be an authentic puzzle product at the same cost or slightly greater than a knock off puzzle of the same type. And authentic puzzles would be marketed, sold and promoted professionally and if an authentic puzzle product was not as good as its knockoff rival, it would be improved to match or be better. And real products would be relased to the public in reasonable time.

But we do not live in a perfect world. People buy KO puzzles for many reasons (I own 8 KO puzzle products personally). 

Of the 8 KO puzzle products that I own, the most striking one in terms of meaning is the YJ 6x6x6 cube.

This V-Cube 6 KO has one thing going for it. The Chinese makers actually did a partial "pi" mod on this cube while it was in the factory. They glued two pieces to the core and really smoothed down all 218 pieces. Result is lockup occurs only 1/3 of the time of a real V6 out of the box and the two outer layers turn really smoothly.

I do wish some day, that Verdes would put out a real V6 with a full "pi" mod done in the factory or at least offer it to us for a small extra fee. 

Cubeforyou already does a value added service to puzzle products. When I ordered by DIY type A from them, I paid an $1 USD extra for a white cube and another $1 USD to have the cube lubed on site too.

If they can offer value added services, so can Verdes and others.

Owned KO puzzles (as of Oct 11, 2009):

1 ES 2x2 cube
2 ES 4x4 cube
1 ES 5x5 cube
1 YJ 6x6 cube
1 1x3x3 Floppy cube
1 3x3x3 white Void cube
1 QJ white 4x4 cube (some don't consider this to be a KO, but some do)

And since the patent for the mechanism for the 3x3 expired ages ago, no 3x3 cube that I own can be considered a KO. And the QJ MF8 black magaminx is not a KO either. The patent on the megaminx expired like the 3x3, ages ago. Same said for the white pyraminx that I own too.


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## Jake Gouldon (Oct 11, 2009)

@LNZ: ES aren't KO's...


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## daniel0731ex (Oct 11, 2009)

Jake Gouldon said:


> @LNZ: ES aren't KO's...



ｈｅ　ｐｒｏｂａｂｌｙ　ｉｓ　ｔａｌｋｉｎｇ　ａｂｏｕｔ　ＥＳ　ＫＯｓ
ｔｈｅ　ｏｎｅ　ｔｈａｔ　ｐｏｐｓ　ａ　ｌｏｔ


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## qqwref (Oct 11, 2009)

I have never heard of ES 2x2 KO so I think he is talking about the real thing.

ES cubes are not KO because they have a new mechanism which is actually patented. They also cleverly avoided Seven Towns in a few ways - for instance the purple side means they don't violate the trademarked color scheme. I'd say that ES is the closest thing to a legitimate competing brand (for NxNxNs) that cubing has seen.


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## Me Myself & Pi (Oct 11, 2009)

LNZ said:


> ...But we do not live in a perfect world. People buy KO puzzles for many reasons (I own 8 KO puzzle products personally).


Well I disagree. No one should ever buy a KO. But I don't want to get into a debate here about why or not someone should buy a KO, I just want to get information about what is a KO. So I'll just leave it at that.



LNZ said:


> This V-Cube 6 KO has one thing going for it. The Chinese makers actually did a partial "pi" mod on this cube while it was in the factory. They glued two pieces to the core and really smoothed down all 218 pieces. Result is lockup occurs only 1/3 of the time of a real V6 out of the box and the two outer layers turn really smoothly.



What?! That's the first thing I heard of that! But I suppose there's a chance that they could've figured it out for themselves. YouTube is blocked in China after all.


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## panyan (Oct 11, 2009)

AndyRoo789 said:


> Edmund said:
> 
> 
> > Isn't every 3x3 puzzle a knock off of the original 3x3? We don't get angry at people who buy other 3x3s.
> ...



but Rubik's still produces the 3x3x3, that was the argument in the KO 4x4x4 the other day 

personally, i just want to try as many puzzles as i can and thus, KO or not, if its cheap, ill buy it


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## V-te (Oct 11, 2009)

The only knockoffs I agree would be ok to buy are the ones that mefferts has that are always "out of stock". 
Seriously, If you plan to make a business, don't you think people are going to want to buy your products???
Puzzles that have been made but never produced, like edges only void cube.
Other than that, I disagree with knockoffs.


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## HaraldS (Oct 11, 2009)

yeah i get quite angry to when companies complains about people stealing their ideas when theydo it aswell..


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## Tdude (Oct 12, 2009)

LNZ said:


> In a perfect world, there would be an authentic puzzle product at the same cost or slightly greater than a knock off puzzle of the same type. And authentic puzzles would be marketed, sold and promoted professionally and if an authentic puzzle product was not as good as its knockoff rival, it would be improved to match or be better. And real products would be relased to the public in reasonable time.
> 
> But we do not live in a perfect world. People buy KO puzzles for many reasons (I own 8 KO puzzle products personally).
> 
> ...



ES is not KO completely different with originals


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## Tdude (Oct 12, 2009)

Me Myself & Pi said:


> LNZ said:
> 
> 
> > ...But we do not live in a perfect world. People buy KO puzzles for many reasons (I own 8 KO puzzle products personally).
> ...


not blocked in hole china and some people put youtube videos to some other web example www.56.com


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## Tim Major (Oct 12, 2009)

Tdude said:


> Me Myself & Pi said:
> 
> 
> > LNZ said:
> ...


That site will get blocked now. You'll have all of China to answer to now! The Chinese authorities may be reading these posts right this instant.


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## luke1984 (Oct 12, 2009)

We must ask ourselves, when is something a Knock-off? On twistypuzzles.com a factory made Windmill cube is seen as a knock off. Mr. Okamoto did come up with the idea, but it's not patented. Why? Because it's not new. It's an existing product with some pieces cut off, it's nothing original. You can't make a minor adjustment to an existing product and patent it. If I would "mod" a 3x3x3 by cutting off a corner, that's not an original idea, nor can I claim to own the concept. 

Also, like said before, if a company comes up with a product and another company copies it but makes it better, the original maker should answer to that. The YJ 6x6x6 seems to be much better than the original V-Cube 6x6x6. So the V-Cube company should improve their 6x6x6.
YJ did break a patent, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's immoral, in my opinion. It doesn't just become moral to copy the moment a patent runs out... 

So if the windmill cube is an original idea, than so is the YJ 6x6x6, they're both slight variations on an existing product....

I seem to be contradicting myself, but I'm actually quite indifferent to all of this. If I'm out to buy a product, I'm getting the best version for the best price. If that happens to be a knock off, so be it.


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## Muesli (Oct 12, 2009)

luke1984 said:


> We must ask ourselves, when is something a Knock-off? On twistypuzzles.com a factory made Windmill cube is seen as a knock off. Mr. Okamoto did come up with the idea, but it's not patented. Why? Because it's not new. It's an existing product with some pieces cut off, it's nothing original. You can't make a minor adjustment to an existing product and patent it. If I would "mod" a 3x3x3 by cutting off a corner, that's not an original idea, nor can I claim to own the concept.
> 
> Also, like said before, if a company comes up with a product and another company copies it but makes it better, the original maker should answer to that. The YJ 6x6x6 seems to be much better than the original V-Cube 6x6x6. So the V-Cube company should improve their 6x6x6.
> YJ did break a patent, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's immoral, in my opinion. It doesn't just become moral to copy the moment a patent runs out...
> ...





Exactly. Patents should be respected, but so should the market. If you are selling a successful product that you invented then you should be ready to face the truth that people will try to emulate your success. The market will almost always go for the better product for the cheaper price aswell. I say if Verdez wants to pursue these chinese manufacturers we should not judge him for it, similarly if he chooses not to.


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## Me Myself & Pi (Oct 12, 2009)

Uh guys, I really don't want this to be a thread on why or not you should buy a KO. I just want to get information about KO's. That's all.

Anyone else know anything?


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## qqwref (Oct 12, 2009)

If you provide a list of the puzzles you're interested in I'll fill in what I know. I don't really feel like manually going through all of c4y to look for knockoffs, though.


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## Me Myself & Pi (Oct 12, 2009)

Well, I'm interested in all the KO's on cubeforyou. But I understand you don't want to go through it all. Anyone else interested?


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## daniel0731ex (Oct 12, 2009)

i buy knockoffs.


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## Cheese_Board (Oct 12, 2009)

daniel0731ex said:


> i buy knockoffs.



Why?


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## mr.onehanded (Oct 12, 2009)

People should buy from the best puzzle makers. I think it's fine to buy a knockoff but you should give the original a shot too. Worst case, it sucks, but you helped the guy who made the better quality knockoff possible.

This is with regards to Mefferts and QJ (clefferts) 4.
QJ FTW


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## Ton (Oct 12, 2009)

Edmund said:


> Isn't every 3x3 puzzle a knock off of the original 3x3? We don't get angry at people who buy other 3x3s.



I totally agree, but only a few people care. Actually the Rubik firm is a small family business and not a multinational firm. Mr Rubik was just smart enough to protect his idea in the early days. It still take some effort to prevent copies to be imported in numerous countries. 

I know that many respected firms are warned when they use copies as advertisements. 

So yes in my view all 3x3 other than Rubik's are copies, the fact that they some of them are quality products does not mean you should just copy a product. The fact that the patent expired, only means you may use the mechanism for any thing you like, except a cube with six colors as this is protected by copy rights.

I feel sorry for so many inventors today, as protecting your product is now part of todays live. You see copies of all new puzzle, to name a few, void cube, mirror block,Pyramorphinx , V-cube's etc etc even in the early days Pyramnix and Rubik's where copied like crazy.


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## Ton (Oct 12, 2009)

luke1984 said:


> So if the windmill cube is an original idea, than so is the YJ 6x6x6, they're both slight variations on an existing product....
> 
> Also, like said before, if a company comes up with a product and another company copies it but makes it better, the original maker should answer to that. The YJ 6x6x6 seems to be much better than the original V-Cube 6x6x6. So the V-Cube company should improve their 6x6x6.
> YJ did break a patent, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's immoral, in my opinion. It doesn't just become moral to copy the moment a patent runs out...



So if some day, your work is used by a colleague and he improves -a slight variations of your work- and present it as his own. You would not mind. Are you sure you are human


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## luke1984 (Oct 13, 2009)

Ton said:


> luke1984 said:
> 
> 
> > So if the windmill cube is an original idea, than so is the YJ 6x6x6, they're both slight variations on an existing product....
> ...



Sure I would mind, but as a consumer I'm not willing to pay more for an inferior product to make the original inventor feel better. If the YJ 6x6x6 is really that much better than the V-Cube 6, and it's cheaper, why would you buy the original? Most of us don't have unlimited amounts of money, and we want the best quality.

Like I said, I can fully understand how Verdes feels about this, but instead of crying about it he can create a better product. As soon as he does, I'll buy it.

By the way, I have 10 original V-Cubes and no knock-offs...


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## Cheese_Board (Oct 13, 2009)

luke1984 said:


> Like I said, I can fully understand how Verdes feels about this, but instead of crying about it he can create a better product.



He can't create a better product if people don't support him and instead buy the knockoffs. Making new molds is not cheap.


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## panyan (Oct 13, 2009)

Cheese_Board said:


> luke1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I said, I can fully understand how Verdes feels about this, but instead of crying about it he can create a better product.
> ...



very true, but isnt the sign of people buying the knockoffs telling verdes that his product isnt worth the extra money to buy the real thing? 

even if nobody were buying knock offs, would verdes bring out products quicker than he is now?


*im just playing devils advocate to see what your arguments would be and in no way encourage others to buy knockoffs*


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## Cheese_Board (Oct 13, 2009)

panyan said:


> Cheese_Board said:
> 
> 
> > luke1984 said:
> ...



Verdes would have made higher order cubes by now if it weren't for knockoffs. (At least this is what kastellorizo said on the twistypuzzles forum. He is a spokesperson of V-Cubes)


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## luke1984 (Oct 14, 2009)

Cheese_Board said:


> panyan said:
> 
> 
> > Cheese_Board said:
> ...



Sure, it's easy to say that after knock-offs are made. 
I honestly don't think that many people buy knock-offs instead of real V-Cubes. 
I know making molds is really expensive and so are the patents for the V-Cube design, but Verdes could get so much more out of this. There are alot of loyal customers out there who would be willing to pay a decent price for a V-Cube 2, 3, or 4 or even 8,9,10 and 11. Even I would much rather see Verdes making these than someone else....


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## panyan (Oct 14, 2009)

Cheese_Board said:


> Making molds is not cheap.



for both Verdes and the KO companies 

i dont think verdes would have brought out higher order cubes faster than he is now


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## daniel0731ex (Oct 15, 2009)

panyan said:


> Cheese_Board said:
> 
> 
> > Making molds is not cheap.
> ...



molds in china are easier to make and less expensive in comparison to western countries sych as greece.


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## Lofty (Oct 15, 2009)

Making molds may not be cheap but you have to take risks and make investments. Especially if you think that your product is of higher quality. 
I don't own any knock-offs but thats because I don't have the money to drop on them much less the real thing.


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## brunson (Oct 21, 2009)

I had to delete a few posts. At the personal request of Panagiotis Verdes to PJK, discussions of patent infringing clones of Verdes products will not be discussed here. When the patent expires, the discussion may commence.


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## Ethan Rosen (Oct 22, 2009)

Ahh yes, because censorship of an entire topic is clearly better than allowing people to be informed. That's definitely going to help new people know what to avoid.


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## gibsonguitarist55 (Oct 22, 2009)

look at this
fisher cubes have been copied and built by people other than tony fisher
and they sell it for a profit
kinda sounds like a broken patent to me
and what some of tyou dont get is that ko puzzles have pros and cons 
but because verdes made the 5x5, 6x6, and 7x7 doesnt mean china cant copy
sure its breaking patent but theres difference in each of the puzzles they copy


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## V-te (Oct 22, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> Ahh yes, because censorship of an entire topic is clearly better than allowing people to be informed. That's definitely going to help new people know what to avoid.



Yeah, We live in a world where we must discuss """appropriate""" topics. What if it's a serious topic? Ignore it, or don't talk about it. This is why abortion and gay marriage haven't been solved yet. There is a simple answer, but no one wants to listen, and the ones in power don't want them to be heard.


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## ShahaK (Oct 22, 2009)

I think that the fact that we have KOs is really good, In Hebrew we have a really old saying "קנאת סופרים תרבה חוכמה", I'll try and translate it, it would be somehing like "The envy of writers proliferates wisdom." which can be undestood as: the competition makes people go lear and improve.
So that competiton between the KOs people and the original cube is actually good for us.

And I think that the fact that people who are interested in cubing are buying chinese KO should turnon a red light to the rubik's brand guys. 
and the fact that we can but BETTER cubes CHEAPER is a disgrace to the rubik's brand company.


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## panyan (Oct 22, 2009)

Ethan Rosen said:


> This is why abortion and gay marriage haven't been solved yet. There is a simple answer, but no one wants to listen



i hope you just phrased that badly, becuase it sounds as though you want some kind of extermination and i think your trying to say the exact opposite.

*hoping he phrased that badly*


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## ottothedog (Jun 29, 2010)

is this an f ii knock off: http://www.popbuying.com/detail.pb/sku.3x3x3_SE_DIY_Magic_Cube_2n_Gen_White-29961


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## CubesOfTheWorld (Jun 29, 2010)

ottothedog said:


> is this an f ii knock off: http://www.popbuying.com/detail.pb/sku.3x3x3_SE_DIY_Magic_Cube_2n_Gen_White-29961



No it's not. SE is Sheng-En. The 2nd generation of the Sheng-En cubes is the F-II. Popbuying just has confusing names.

EDIT: F-II is not DIY. It is probably still the exact same cube, but Popbuying disassembled it.


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## JeffDelucia (Jun 29, 2010)

ottothedog said:


> is this an f ii knock off: http://www.popbuying.com/detail.pb/sku.3x3x3_SE_DIY_Magic_Cube_2n_Gen_White-29961



no


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## JeffDelucia (Jun 29, 2010)

brunson said:


> I had to delete a few posts. At the personal request of Panagiotis Verdes to PJK, discussions of patent infringing clones of Verdes products will not be discussed here. When the patent expires, the discussion may commence.



Lmao does that mean I can't say "I support v-cube knockoffs" for like 20 years on this forum?

Sorry for the double post...


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## Boxcarcrzy12 (Jun 29, 2010)

CubesOfTheWorld said:


> ottothedog said:
> 
> 
> > is this an f ii knock off: http://www.popbuying.com/detail.pb/sku.3x3x3_SE_DIY_Magic_Cube_2n_Gen_White-29961
> ...



No the edges on an FII are different, as are the caps and the core isnt like "cone" shaped


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## JeffDelucia (Jun 29, 2010)

Boxcarcrzy12 said:


> CubesOfTheWorld said:
> 
> 
> > ottothedog said:
> ...



looks like a type f-I


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## miniGOINGS (Jun 29, 2010)

Wow guys.

This question has been answered quite a bit, and yet still nobody can answer it correctly.

That cube is a knock-off of a knock-off of the original Type F.


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## daniel0731ex (Jun 29, 2010)

ottothedog said:


> is this an f ii knock off: http://www.popbuying.com/detail.pb/sku.3x3x3_SE_DIY_Magic_Cube_2n_Gen_White-29961



actually, it's a FI knockoff.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=396059#post396059






miniGOINGS said:


> Wow guys.
> 
> This question has been answered quite a bit, and yet still nobody can answer it correctly.
> 
> That cube is a knock-off of a knock-off of the original Type F.



umm actually, it's only the first round knockoff (夢幻魔方, not the 国佳)....it was my bad, i was the one who mis-identified it in the first place.


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## Gurplex2 (Jun 29, 2010)

Me Myself & Pi said:


> I tried posting this on twistypuzzles.com, but they're really sensitive to knock offs & I got very little response. Anyway, since cubeforyou.com is such a popular site, I feel I should address the KO puzzles on there. You may think that this will only increase interest in this puzzles & do more harm the good. But I've recently advertised cubeforyou.com & a few a it's puzzles in a recent video. So anyone who saw that video will go to the website & see the KO's. So it seems the "harm" has already taken place. Now it's time for the "good"!
> 
> I want to make a video telling people what puzzles are KO's on cubeforyou, because I'm sure there are a lot of newbies that just don't know, & wouldn't buy them if they didn't know the harm. Then I'll explain the harm that it does buying a KO.
> 
> ...



What happens in 5 years or whatever when the patent expires? Will you just stfu already?


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## splinteh (Jun 29, 2010)

I bet everyone here on the forum has at least a few "China made" Speedcubes. And prefer them over regular Rubik's brand products.


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## miniGOINGS (Jun 29, 2010)

Daniel, that would explain the weird shape of the core then...


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## daniel0731ex (Jun 29, 2010)

miniGOINGS said:


> Daniel, that would explain the weird shape of the core then...



umm no, both of these two knockoffs have the same shape of cores.

The ONLY difference between these two is the shape of the spring column.
(the 夢幻魔方 is square shaped, just like the original F; the 国佳 is round like normal cubes.)


and the 夢幻魔方 have longer springs (im not sure about this one.)


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## brunson (Jun 29, 2010)

splinteh said:


> I bet everyone here on the forum has at least a few "China made" Speedcubes. And prefer them over regular Rubik's brand products.


It's been discussed. The patent on the original Rubik's mechanism has expired. The patent on the V-Cube mechanism is still in effect.


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## daniel0731ex (Jun 29, 2010)

brunson said:


> splinteh said:
> 
> 
> > I bet everyone here on the forum has at least a few "China made" Speedcubes. And prefer them over regular Rubik's brand products.
> ...



TRANSLATION:

Rubik's already got a ton of money from his toy, but poor Verdes just started his business and already he's going bankrupt 

we should buy moar V-Cubes to support him!! (went to popbuying and ordered a YJ cube)


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## Ton (Jun 29, 2010)

brunson said:


> splinteh said:
> 
> 
> > I bet everyone here on the forum has at least a few "China made" Speedcubes. And prefer them over regular Rubik's brand products.
> ...



True , and I repeat, the Rubik's cube is protected by copyrights.....Just like an art object or a logo. And I repeat it is not allowed to import clone cubes in most countries....


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## robosariobo777 (Jun 30, 2010)

also, the super floppy has edges that can turn


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## Senkoy (Jul 1, 2010)

Are the mirror blocks on ebay knock offs? This one for example.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Silver-Mirror-B...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c13bf162e

It's usually cheap...


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## TomZ (Jul 1, 2010)

No, the one you linked to is not genuine. It's way too cheap for it to be the real deal.

The best way to find a genuine one is by looking for the band "Megahouse" and the word "original". Any Mirror Block that does not have black plastic and silver or golden stickers is fake.


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## Johnny (Sep 17, 2014)

If a company designs a puzzle that turns horribly or is useless for speedsolves, they deserve to get knocked off. Just my opinion.


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## Ollie (Sep 17, 2014)

Johnny said:


> If a company designs a puzzle that turns horribly or is useless for speedsolves, they deserve to get knocked off. Just my opinion.



1. You design a completely new puzzle that doesn't turn very well
2. Company X reproduces the puzzle with a slightly different mechanism, based off your design, that turns brilliantly

You surely don't believe that you *deserve* to be knocked off for not getting it perfectly right the first time? Even if the puzzle isn't new, the mechanism might be, and the rival company who steals it and adjusts it slightly gets all the sales/credit?


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## Johnny (Sep 17, 2014)

I would actually believe that. If you produced a product that people didn't like, you have failed and you deserve the full consequences of that failure. Puzzle makers who fail should not be rewarded, they should be punished.

Plus, look at it this way- Cubers need good puzzles. If an original design sucks, sometimes knockoffs are the only viable option. You cannot expect cubers to use terrible cubes when far better alternatives exist.


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## Johnny (Sep 17, 2014)

Yes. Plus the company is so unethical that the thought of buying something from them makes me shudder. I'd much rather but a knockoff from a consumer-centric company than buy an original product from a company as arrogant as V cube.


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## Randomno (Sep 17, 2014)

Shengshou cubes are good and very cheap...

So yeah...

Go knockoffs!


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