# Roux and ZZ Method



## chardison1980 (Feb 15, 2012)

hello everyone,

i am currently using ROUX as my main method converting over from WATERMAN, and just reciently decided to serously take a look at ZZ method, and descovered as close that ROUX and ZZ are to each other ie, for block building and speed as they bothe seem to use the same type algs and intuitive techniques.

does or has anyone else descovered this?

after 2 hard days of figuring out the EOLINE step and orientating of the edges, and learning how to recognize and fix all the bad edges ZZ method seemed to come natural to me, has this also happened to anyone?

thanks for your replies in advance


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## PandaCuber (Feb 15, 2012)

This happened to me with roux and mooing. Even though im not the best, i love it. 
I have yet to learn ZZ, (Currently playing with Petrus) but I plan on learning it. 
And ZZ doesnt moo...


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## 5BLD (Feb 15, 2012)

They don't. ZZ has got more '2-gen style' blockbuilding whilst Roux has more blocky building.

And actually as for the second point I was trying ZZ yesterday and yeah suddenly EOLine clicked and I got 20ish averages (i'm not use to 2gen style blockbuilding or L moves). With one hand I got around 28 seconds with ZZ.


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## Kirjava (Feb 15, 2012)

chardison1980 said:


> they bothe seem to use the same type algs


 
wat


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## chardison1980 (Feb 15, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> This happened to me with roux and mooing. Even though im not the best, i love it.
> I have yet to learn ZZ, (Currently playing with Petrus) but I plan on learning it.
> And ZZ doesnt moo...


 
i was thinking that the EO part of ZZ would help with petrus myself because ive messed around with petrus before i started looking at ROUX, it seems interesting to start messing around using the EO and converting into other block building methods like petrus, ROUX, and waterman. thoughts


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## PandaCuber (Feb 16, 2012)

chardison1980 said:


> i was thinking that the EO part of ZZ would help with petrus myself because ive messed around with petrus before i started looking at ROUX, it seems interesting to start messing around using the EO and converting into other block building methods like petrus, ROUX, and waterman. thoughts


 
If you dont know, its okay to write "Roux" lowercased. 

See roux is supposed to be efficient speedsolving method. But when you orient edges, youre very restricted to your moves. Like in ZZ, you can only do <L.U.R> . This method requires a higher tps and less intuition. 

I do agree with ZZ helping you with Petrus. It is currently helping me


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## chardison1980 (Feb 16, 2012)

do you guys believe EO to be counter productive when using it with roux,


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## PandaCuber (Feb 16, 2012)

chardison1980 said:


> do you guys believe EO to be counter productive when using it with roux,


 
I do.


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## somerandomkidmike (Feb 16, 2012)

chardison1980 said:


> do you guys believe EO to be counter productive when using it with roux,


 
Very much so.


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## chardison1980 (Feb 16, 2012)

somerandomkidmike said:


> Very much so.


 
understandable, thanks.

im still trying to be more efficient on my block building for my second 1x2x3 blocks i know that 5bld/pandacuber say not to do any cube rotations sometimes i still do, how do i break my self of this bad habit.


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## kashyap7x (Feb 16, 2012)

use double layer r turns followed by a U layer turn instead of F/B face turns.


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## 5BLD (Feb 16, 2012)

EDIT:
if you mean step 4a:

It helps reduce to <U2,M>. Although you like your waterman way and so do I you'll have to get away from <M,U> to solve the M slice that has misoriented edges or else you'll use a lot of moves. 

Of course if you were to solve LR edges and then M slice in one look... Now THAT's an interesting idea...

EDIT: if you mean EO right at the beginning
Of course. 2-gen blockbuilding is inefficient.


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## chardison1980 (Feb 16, 2012)

5BLD said:


> EDIT:
> if you mean step 4a:
> 
> It helps reduce to <U2,M>. Although you like your waterman way and so do I you'll have to get away from <M,U> to solve the M slice that has misoriented edges or else you'll use a lot of moves.
> ...



believe it or not i can come pretty close to doing one look solving UL/UR and the M slice edges too, im getting better and faster at it, working eventually towards to doing a one look LSE solving. 

ive gotten used to doing the wide R turns now, and ive gotten away of relying on F/B turns to insert F2L pairs. 

thanks.


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## 5BLD (Feb 16, 2012)

It's not about 1-looking. It's about efficiency.


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## Kirjava (Feb 16, 2012)

When you're not making any pauses anyway, number of looks doesn't mean anything.


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