# Sometimes, it IS the cube, not the cuber



## SixSidedCube (May 16, 2014)

Hey guys, this is my first thread in quite a while! So hello again!! 

Okay, I just wanted to share an experience that quite possibly voids all claims that it is "always the cuber, not the cube."

I owned a mini QJ 4x4x4, and I averaged 2:30-3:00 on it, but I always had the mindset that it was me, and not my cube.

My MoYu WeiSu just arrived in the mail today, along with several other new cubes. Back to the topic, I just did an average of 12 with my WeiSu, and the average is 1:43.99.

Had anyone had any similar experiences? If so, what type of puzzle? (4x4x4, 5x5x5 etc), and what brand did you originally have, (Eastsheen, Rubiks etc), and what brand did you experience the major time-drop with?

Also, just out of curiosity, had anyone had the OPPOSITE happen to them?


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## adamaap (May 16, 2014)

Well the easiest proof is trying to do speedcubing with a normal Rubiks cube. It just goes way to slow, you can't fingertrick, it blocks a lot etc.


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## TheOneOnTheLeft (May 16, 2014)

There is of course an extent to which hardware matters - few are going to argue that you'll get the same times on a Rubik's and a WeiLong. The "it's the cuber not the cube" argument applies more to people who go from, say, a ZhanChi to a FangShi, and expect it to be a substitute for practice.


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## penguinz7 (May 16, 2014)

I had a lanlan 4x4, averaged about 2:30, my best had been 1:50, then I got an Aosu and averaged 1:40..


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## Filipe Teixeira (May 16, 2014)

penguinz7 said:


> I had a lanlan 4x4, averaged about 2:30, my best had been 1:50, then I got an Aosu and averaged 1:40..



I normally average 16~17 secondswith a good cube but with a 1 dollar cube I average 1 minute.


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## ChickenWrap (May 16, 2014)

Going from one speedcube to another will do nothing, or maybe .5 seconds or less. The only time a cube holds you back is if you have a really crappy big cube or a Rubiks brand, but I can still get sub-20 on a Rubiks. If you break it in enough, it is a decent cube.


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## Kit Clement (May 16, 2014)

It depends on the event. For events with not so many hardware choices, there is typically one cube that is head and shoulders above others, like the Aosu in 4x4. But it's just a waste of time when people get worried about making their WeiLong perfect or worry that they could be so much faster with another modern cube like a LiYing.


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## waffle=ijm (May 16, 2014)

I had a block of wood and I couldn't solve it, but with a regular cube, I could. 

That's what most of the responses will sound like. anyway, the saying should change to "A good cube is nothing without a great cuber and a great cuber is nothing without a good cube."


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## Filipe Teixeira (May 16, 2014)

waffle=ijm said:


> A good cube is nothing without a great cuber and a great cuber is nothing without a good cube.



wise words


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## ZamHalen (May 16, 2014)

I usually direct that argument at sup 30 cubers who think switching from a Rubik's to weilong will magically turn them into Feliks. Though personally my times are only 3 seconds slower at most with my store bought (granted mines modded and well broken in) I can see where hardware plays a role.


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## Jaycee (May 16, 2014)

Waffo basically said what I planned on saying. Of course the cube matters, but there's a limit. It's not as if everybody who uses a certain cube is going to have the exact same times. On cuber may solve a Weilong in 30 seconds, another may solve it in 7. I assume this makes sense to the logical mind, I don't know why I'm stating the obvious like this. 

Oh, and if you're trying to "void all claims that it is 'always the cuber, not the cube,'" explain why some people can sub-20 a Rubik's brand and others don't sub-20 with, say, a Guhong? It's not like people have ever said hardware doesn't matter. And if one has, well, that person was wrong.

Edit: Also, this.


ZamHalen said:


> I usually direct that argument at sup 30 cubers who think switching from a Rubik's to weilong will magically turn them into Feliks.



Makes me confused more than anything else. I encounter those people sometimes and I wonder "How does this make sense in your head?"


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## tx789 (May 16, 2014)

I improved 12 second when getting my AoSu before then a used a shenshou v3. I averaged 1:28~ with the shenshou. Now my 4x4 average is around 1:13~


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## TDM (May 16, 2014)

I dropped 2-3 seconds when I got my ShuangRen, but that was because my only other two cubes were dead. If your cubes are similarly decent, then it is the cuber; if they're completely different then it is usually the cube.


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## GuRoux (May 16, 2014)

i dropped from about 30 to 25 from a switch from rubiks brand to zanchi.


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## Petro Leum (May 16, 2014)

in my experience, the bigger the cube, the more it is about the hardware. i dropped many many seconds on big cubes just by modifying/ properly lubing/ switching my cubes.


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## TheOneOnTheLeft (May 17, 2014)

Petro Leum said:


> in my experience, the bigger the cube, the more it is about the hardware. i dropped many many seconds on big cubes just by modifying/ properly lubing/ switching my cubes.



This is also because there are more seconds to drop on big cubes. The percentage by which your solve times decrease will probably be more comparable than comparing the absolute decrease in times. A 0.1 second drop in the 3x3 WR average is the same proportional improvement as a 2.6 second drop in 7x7 WR average.


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## MadaraMangekyou (May 23, 2014)

the hardware makes a difference!, (also the speedcuber) i have tried many cubes in my speedcubing history, from the 1 dollar cubes to moyu weilong, and my times have progressed as i have been changing to a better cube, or a one who fit better my style at speedcubing, the 100% of my progress is not related with changing cubes, but maybe the 50-30% is it related to it...


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## TheFarEastGuy (May 24, 2014)

"It's the cuber, not the cube" sounds cliche anyway. But what Waffo said previously in this thread is good wisdom.


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## Tempus (May 24, 2014)

Jaycee said:


> Oh, and if you're trying to "void all claims that it is 'always the cuber, not the cube,'" explain why some people can sub-20 a Rubik's brand and others don't sub-20 with, say, a Guhong?


I realize I'm a bit late with this reply, but I would like to point out that to prove the assertion that it's "always the cuber, not the cube", you would need to show that it is true for every singe case, whereas to disprove (i.e. void) it, you would only need a find a _single instance_ wherein it is the cube and not the cuber. If there is so much as one counterexample, then the assertion is universally false because it says "always". For example, if Feliks had to use a 130mm foot cube, I bet it would significantly affect his times.  (It would be interesting to see, though...)

Personally, I think a more accurate saying would be "It's always some combination of the cube, the cuber, and the _lighting_." In my opinion, lighting changes can make a huge difference.


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## 5BLD (May 24, 2014)

Pff the point is that you shouldn't _worry_ about your hardware for so long that you lose valuable practice time.

"It's the cuber, the cube, and the lighting" implies that they are of equal importance which they are not. And one of them takes much longer to develop. Aside from that, it's just word games really.


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## Logical101 (May 24, 2014)

The cube can improve the cuber, a cuber can improve his(yes, not her) cube


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## DeeDubb (May 24, 2014)

5BLD said:


> Pff the point is that you shouldn't _worry_ about your hardware for so long that you lose valuable practice time.
> 
> "*It's the cuber, the cube, and the lighting*" implies that they are of equal importance which they are not. And one of them takes much longer to develop. Aside from that, it's just word games really.




It's the Cuber the cube, and the lighting.


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## cubeshead (May 24, 2014)

i used a crappy cube that coasted 2.90 sgd and my times were sub 30 while using my liying times were sub 19 so it is true and srry for fangshi 2x2 users or fans i get sub 8 using it but dayan iget sub 5 not saying tha fangshi is crap the rubiks brand


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## guysensei1 (May 24, 2014)

Logical101 said:


> The cube can improve the cuber, a cuber can improve his(yes, not her) cube



Are you saying females cannot improve their cubes?


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## Tempus (May 24, 2014)

5BLD said:


> "It's the cuber, the cube, and the lighting" implies that they are of equal importance which they are not.


Does it? Do you make garlic bread with equal parts of garlic and bread? What about lemon chicken?

Also, if you look again, you will see that I said "It's always *some combination* of the cube, the cuber, and the lighting," and not "It's always *equal proportions* of the cube, the cuber, and the lighting."




guysensei1 said:


> Are you saying females cannot improve their cubes?


No, I believe he's saying that he's aware of the rule that says "his" should be used when the gender is unknown or nonspecific. This is no cause for offence, so let's not try to turn it into one.


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## Renslay (May 25, 2014)

Lighting? Really? Then we should add noise, nerve, cameras, coffee, age, exhaustion, air pollution and the number of barking puppies too.


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## Rocky0701 (May 26, 2014)

There are an infinite number of things that can affect a cubers times. I just got a 23.47 instead of a 23.48 because some dude in China just sneezed. In all reality, it is the cuber the most, but cubes can help or hurt a good cubers solves, especially with certain events.


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## rowan (May 26, 2014)

Tempus said:


> No, I believe he's saying that he's aware of the rule that says "his" should be used when the gender is unknown or nonspecific. This is no cause for offence, so let's not try to turn it into one.



It was just odd because he clearly made an unnecessary specification. And using male pronouns in those cases is not a "rule."



Renslay said:


> Lighting? Really? Then we should add noise, nerve, cameras, coffee, age, exhaustion, air pollution and the number of barking puppies too.



Why do those things seem so unbelievable? Lighting certainly affects times. Try solving a cube in the dark, obviously without memorization in the light or something.

I think this thread misses the point of the phrase, imo. Plenty of threads include people blaming their cubes for their performance when this is not the case, but I have never seen "it's the cuber, not the cube" used to imply that all cubes result in the same performance.


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## CubeAllDay123 (May 28, 2014)

rowan said:


> It was just odd because he clearly made an unnecessary specification. And using male pronouns in those cases is not a "rule."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lighting will definitely affect your time, maybe one or two sec, the cube will maybe make your times fluctuate between 3-5 sec from say a zhanchi to a weilong, but the things that mostly affect your time are the cuber, the method they are using, whether 2-step oll, 1-step pll, roux, or cfop, and finally the mindset in which you solve the cube with. The clearer your mind is, the more space you will have in your brain to think about look-ahead, oll pairs, etc. Music sometimes helps, and do not smash your cube when you get a +2 or DNF, i did that once and broke the center of my weilong . Remember, the cuber, method, and mindset will determine the time of your solve.


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## DeeDubb (May 28, 2014)

CubeAllDay123 said:


> *the cube will maybe make your times fluctuate between 3-5 sec from say a zhanchi to a weilong*,



I don't see how that's possible for ANYONE. If your times are extremely slow, you won't feel a difference between those two, and if you are faster, 3-5 seconds is a big percentage of your solve. Even at my speed (~26 average), I only notice a 1 second difference between using my Weilong and my DianMa (which I hate). You might notice 3-5 seconds going from Rubik's brand to a speed cube, but I doubt it will make more than a second difference going between the two of the best speed cubes on the market.


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## Future Cuber (May 28, 2014)

The cuber and the cubes are equally important
Its like ...
A blind person cant see even if light is there
and even if there is no light you cant see a thing
basically both light and blindness are equally important 
therefore the cuber and the cubes are equally important


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## DeeDubb (May 28, 2014)

Future Cuber said:


> The cuber and the cubes are equally important
> Its like ...
> A blind person cant see even if light is there
> and even if there is no light you cant see a thing
> ...



First of all, quite a bizarre metaphor...

And secondly, put a Rubik's Brand in Feliks's hands and you'll end up with a solved cube pretty quickly, put a Weilong in someone who doesn't know how to solve the cube, and it will still be unsolved weeks later. It's most definitely not equal. Much more about the cuber than the cube.


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## Future Cuber (Jun 1, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> First of all, quite a bizarre metaphor...
> 
> And secondly, *put a Rubik's Brand in Feliks's hands and you'll end up with a solved cube pretty quickly, put a Weilong in someone who doesn't know how to solve the cube, and it will still be unsolved weeks later*. It's most definitely not equal. Much more about the cuber than the cube.



1. Well ..You just proved my point correct ..The cuber and the cube are equally important
2. the metaphor ..... well that was the only one that popped in to my mind at that moment


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## DeeDubb (Jun 1, 2014)

Future Cuber said:


> *1. Well ..You just proved my point correct ..The cuber and the cube are equally important*
> 2. the metaphor ..... well that was the only one that popped in to my mind at that moment



I don't think I did. I said that a Weilong in the hands of someone who don't know how to solve a cube will never be solved even in months, and a Rubik's Brand in Feliks's hands will be solved still rather quickly. 
The end result is: 
A great cuber with an inept cube = a solved cube rather quickly 
An inept cuber with a great cube = an unsolved cube even after months 

This clearly shows the cuber is much more important than the cube.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 1, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> I don't think I did. I said that a Weilong in the hands of someone who don't know how to solve a cube will never be solved even in months, and a Rubik's Brand in Feliks's hands will be solved still rather quickly.
> The end result is:
> A great cuber with an inept cube = a solved cube rather quickly
> An inept cuber with a great cube = an unsolved cube even after months
> ...


Feliks would average sub 10 on a Rubiks brand and after months of practice i doby even average sub 20. The cuber is more important.


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## Future Cuber (Jun 1, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> I don't think I did. I said that a Weilong in the hands of someone who don't know how to solve a cube will never be solved even in months, and a Rubik's Brand in Feliks's hands will be solved still rather quickly.
> The end result is:
> A great cuber with an inept cube = a solved cube rather quickly
> An inept cuber with a great cube = an unsolved cube even after months
> ...



Feliks can break WR's with rubiks cube
can he ???? 
But he CAN with an aolong or a weilong ...
This proves that the cuber and the cube are equally important


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## DeeDubb (Jun 1, 2014)

Future Cuber said:


> Feliks can break WR's with rubiks cube
> can he ???? No
> But he CAN with an aolong or a weilong ...
> This proves that the cuber and the cube are equally important
> ...



That's your problem. You are definitely using that word without really thinking about what it means.


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## Future Cuber (Jun 1, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Feliks would average sub 10 on a Rubiks brand and after months of practice i doby even average sub 20. The cuber is more important.



Feliks has around 6 years of practice


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## Future Cuber (Jun 1, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> That's your problem. You are definitely using that word without really thinking about what it means.



People have different opinion on this topic 
U think in a different perspective and i think in a different one
SO PEACE :tu 

EDIT : I know what EQUAL means alright


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## QQW (Jun 1, 2014)

The cuber is way more important in most cubes a speedcuber can do 2 tps (even broken in Rubik's) but if you give a speed cube to somebody who just learned to solve a cube he can't even do 0.5 tps. 

Not even mentioning that a speedcuber solves the cube in 55 moves and a beginner in like 120 moves.


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## jacobkm (Jun 5, 2014)

My average with my rubiks brand 3x3 was 1:20. my first zhanchi arrived and that night i got my first sub minute (47 seconds). i think the cube does make a difference...


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## FailCuber (Jun 6, 2014)

jacobkm said:


> My average with my rubiks brand 3x3 was 1:20. my first zhanchi arrived and that night i got my first sub minute (47 seconds). i think the cube does make a difference...



I got my second best PB using a Rubik's brand rubik's cube not lucky 14.39. Felik's got a sub 9 in 2010 in a TV show using rubik's brand


Future Cuber said:


> Feliks can break WR's with rubiks cube
> can he ????
> But he CAN with an aolong or a weilong ...
> This proves that the cuber and the cube are equally important



Doesn't mean he can't break the world record with a rubik's brand doesn't mean the cube is equally important.


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## Rocky0701 (Jun 6, 2014)

FailCuber said:


> I got my second best PB using a Rubik's brand rubik's cube not lucky 14.39. Felik's got a sub 9 in 2010 in a TV show using rubik's brand
> 
> 
> Doesn't mean he can't break the world record with a rubik's brand doesn't mean the cube is equally important.


Maybe he could beat the single with a Rubik's brand, if he got a really easy scramble, but if he had that same exact scramble with his AoLong, it would definitely be about a second faster. He would probably never be able to beat the average with a Rubik's brand, unless he modded the heck out of it.


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## FailCuber (Jun 6, 2014)

I got my weilong right now and it only made a 0.5 second difference between my old main almost broken lunhui


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## kcl (Jun 6, 2014)

I just did an ao5 on a an old dead zhanchi that sucks. 10.27. 9.86 on my main. As long as we're talking SPEEDCUBES, you can be world class with amost anything.


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## Tempus (Jun 6, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> As long as we're talking SPEEDCUBES, you can be world class with amost anything.


But it cuts both ways. "As long as we're talking SPEEDCUBERS, your cube can be world class with almost anyone." All you have to do to make either sentence true is use a very narrow definition of speedcube/speedcuber that only includes the best.


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## kcl (Jun 6, 2014)

Tempus said:


> But it cuts both ways. "As long as we're talking SPEEDCUBERS, your cube can be world class with almost anyone." All you have to do to make either sentence true is use a very narrow definition of speedcube/speedcuber that only includes the best.



Not all speedcubers are world class. I'm willing to bet most sub 10 cubers can sub 10 on any speedcube. Not all speedcubers can sub 10 no matter what cube they have.


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## DeeDubb (Jun 6, 2014)

Look, I have proof that the cube is equally, if not MORE important than the cuber. I average sub-25, and switching to my 13cm DianSheng drops my time by over 20 seconds!


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## kcl (Jun 6, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Look, I have proof that the cube is equally, if not MORE important than the cuber. I average sub-25, and switching to my 13cm DianSheng drops my time by over 20 seconds!



Obviously, I hear everyone is running out to buy one of those nowadays


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## PJKCuber (Jun 6, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Look, I have proof that the cube is equally, if not MORE important than the cuber. I average sub-25, and switching to my 13cm DianSheng drops my time by over 20 seconds!



Hahahahahahahhahah ROFL Such a huge cube. Its pretty amazing you can sub 1 on one of those things... My friend has one and I can solve it in like 3 minutes even though I average around 30 seconds..


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## Genesis (Jun 6, 2014)

I believe "Its the cuber not the cube" is being directed to cubers who obsess over getting the "best cube" to improve their times instead of actually practicing to improve
So, this kinda only applies to using different modern speedcubes(And maybe some pre-Dayan ones), where a cuber would get similar times regardless of cube, therefore, "Its the cuber not the cube"


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