# Bigcube tips and tricks discussion thread



## Jake Gouldon (Jan 3, 2010)

I just watched dankoen's (masterofthebass) 5x5 walkthrough solve again, and I saw that trick he did on one of the centres at 1:23 in the video below:


[youtubehd]5nW3sLbgCtM[/youtubehd]


I was thinking, there must be boatloads of other tricks for not only centres but edges as well. I am sure many people could benefit from the tricks other people can share, in this thread. So, post your bigcube tips and tricks!


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## 4Chan (Jan 3, 2010)

Erik Johnson's tip of "Not looking at the pair you're going to make" really helps.

Also, anyone who has learned a bit of ZBF2L would be able to notice parity during the last slot, and can do the parity algorithm before the last pair and manipulate the last pair into an easier case. It's nice when it happens.


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## Jilvin (Jan 3, 2010)

I wish there were a more formal way to do edges. I've gotten pretty quick at them over the past few days but my method is basically a messed up "grab-bag" of various things i've seen...


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## cincyaviation (Jan 3, 2010)

dankoen?


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## James Ludlow (Jan 3, 2010)

This is nice for last 2 centres on 5x5


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## Cyrus C. (Jan 3, 2010)

I find it helpful to know what OLL case you'll get after doing parity.


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## liljthedude (Jan 3, 2010)

Jake Gouldon said:


> I just watched *dankoen's* (masterofthebass) 5x5 walkthrough solve again, and I saw that trick he did on one of the centres at 1:23 in the video below:





cincyaviation said:


> *dankoen?*




*Dan Cohen!*


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## Robert-Y (Jan 3, 2010)

Another 5x5x5 centres trick:

In addition to that T trick, there's also a similar trick with a "fish shape" as they call it...

Get a solved 5x5x5 do these moves with white on top, green on front: Rw2 U' Rw B' Rw' Lw' B Lw x'

Let's say you want to solve the white centres.

To do this you could do Lw' U' Lw and then you will get a "fish shape" where you'll be an insert away from finishing a 2x3 block of centres. Next you just simply do Rw U Rw' and a 2x3 block of centres will be made.


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## Escher (Jan 3, 2010)

OLL parity 3 flip: place correct edge in UL and do B L (parity alg) L' B'


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## Cyrus C. (Jan 3, 2010)

Does anyone use PLL's/OLL's that solve parity & the case?


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## Robert-Y (Jan 3, 2010)

4x4x4 LL trick: If you always solve parities after the OLL, you might get a DP case where you know you'll need to swap two diagonal corners after executing the pure DP alg. You can do R' (non-pure DP alg) U2 R instead and you'll get an EPLL


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## 4Chan (Jan 3, 2010)

Cyrus C. said:


> Does anyone use PLL's/OLL's that solve parity & the case?



Dan Harris had a few algs like that.


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## Robert-Y (Jan 3, 2010)

Cyrus C. said:


> Does anyone use PLL's/OLL's that solve parity & the case?



Yes... (Erik and I use some of them afaik...)


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## Jake Gouldon (Jan 3, 2010)

liljthedude said:


> Jake Gouldon said:
> 
> 
> > I just watched *dankoen's* (masterofthebass) 5x5 walkthrough solve again, and I saw that trick he did on one of the centres at 1:23 in the video below:
> ...



Look at his account now, it's dankoen.


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## Escher (Jan 3, 2010)

Robert-Y said:


> 4x4x4 LL trick: If you always solve parities after the OLL, you might get a DP case where you know you'll need to swap two diagonal corners after executing the pure DP alg. You can do R' (non-pure DP alg) U2 R instead and you'll get an EPLL



Maarten Smit had an alg for that diag corner swap:

F R U' R' U' R U R' F' U (PLL parity alg) U' R U R' U' R' F R F'

but that's a nice trick


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## Robert-Y (Jan 3, 2010)

Escher said:


> Robert-Y said:
> 
> 
> > 4x4x4 LL trick: If you always solve parities after the OLL, you might get a DP case where you know you'll need to swap two diagonal corners after executing the pure DP alg. You can do R' (non-pure DP alg) U2 R instead and you'll get an EPLL
> ...



That is a pretty nice trick, thanks


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## Robert-Y (Jan 3, 2010)

5x5x5 last 3 tredges trick(s):

On a solved 5x5x5, do any Uw move and Dw move, flip the FR tredge around, undo the Uw and Dw moves and see what it does


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## blah (Jan 3, 2010)

Robert-Y said:


> Get a solved 5x5x5 do these moves with white on top, green on front: Rw2 U' Rw B' Rw' Lw' B Lw x'
> 
> Let's say you want to solve the white centres.
> 
> To do this you could do Lw' U' Lw and then you will get a "fish shape" where you'll be an insert away from finishing a 2x3 block of centres. Next you just simply do Rw U Rw' and a 2x3 block of centres will be made.


Doesn't work


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## Dene (Jan 3, 2010)

4Chan said:


> Also, anyone who has learned a bit of ZBF2L would be able to notice parity during the last slot, and can do the parity algorithm before the last pair and manipulate the last pair into an easier case. It's nice when it happens.



Which parity algorithm are we talking about?
Also, which edges method are you talking about? If you mean AVG then my following paragraph does not necessarily apply (Although it still kind of does).

Anyway, anyone that has done bigcubes for more than a week can lookahead when they have 3, or maybe even 4 edges left, and manipulate the last case to a preferable one. Of course, if you are good at all of the last 2 edges algorithms there won't be a problem anyway.


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## Robert-Y (Jan 3, 2010)

blah said:


> Robert-Y said:
> 
> 
> > Get a solved 5x5x5 do these moves with white on top, green on front: Rw2 U' Rw B' Rw' Lw' B Lw x'
> ...



The 2x3 block of white centres should have been made on the F face. Are you sure it doesn't work?


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## Dene (Jan 3, 2010)

blah said:


> Robert-Y said:
> 
> 
> > Get a solved 5x5x5 do these moves with white on top, green on front: Rw2 U' Rw B' Rw' Lw' B Lw x'
> ...



It does work.


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## Zava (Jan 3, 2010)

Robert-Y said:


> 5x5x5 last 3 tredges trick(s):
> 
> On a solved 5x5x5, do any Uw move and Dw move, flip the FR tredge around, undo the Uw and Dw moves and see what it does



man I love you!  I've always did it like Rw'U'RURw B2 x'z'Dw2 RUR'FR'F'RDw2 (ollpar edge on UR, bad wings at UBr and UFr) but this one seems nicer!


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## 4Chan (Jan 3, 2010)

Oh Dene, I meant F2L pair, not edge pair, and last slot as in F2L slot.
That's my way of referring to it.


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## deadalnix (Jan 3, 2010)

I will love this thread !

Some work on 4x4x4 pll : http://frederickbadie.free.fr/444PLLparity.html


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## Dene (Jan 3, 2010)

4Chan said:


> Oh Dene, I meant F2L pair, not edge pair, and last slot as in F2L slot.
> That's my way of referring to it.



I thought it didn't quite add up. So you mean for 4x4?


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## 4Chan (Jan 3, 2010)

Yeppers, for 4x4.
It's similar to Chris Hardwicks ZBF2L trick: http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/zb4x4.html


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## Cyrus C. (Jan 3, 2010)

4Chan said:


> Yeppers, for 4x4 *& 6x6*.
> It's similar to Chris Hardwicks ZBF2L trick: http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/zb4x4.html


Fixed.


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## JTW2007 (Jan 4, 2010)

jamesdeanludlow said:


> This is nice for last 2 centres on 5x5



Thank. You.



Robert-Y said:


> 5x5x5 last 3 tredges trick(s):
> 
> On a solved 5x5x5, do any Uw move and Dw move, flip the FR tredge around, undo the Uw and Dw moves and see what it does



Very nice.

I was thinking about asking for some bigcube help the other day. I'm so glad that I didn't.


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## Dene (Jan 4, 2010)

Robert-Y said:


> 5x5x5 last 3 tredges trick(s):
> 
> On a solved 5x5x5, do any Uw move and Dw move, flip the FR tredge around, undo the Uw and Dw moves and see what it does



That is quite nice, but unfortunately it only makes a really easy case a little easier.


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## Robert-Y (Jan 4, 2010)

I might have a better way of thinking about it:

Group the edge from the ollparity tredge (anyone have a better name for this?) with the 2 bad wings (the ones next to a half-solved tredge), flip the tredge with bad pieces around, restore centres.

Uw Dw (FR tredge flip) Uw' Dw'
Uw Dw2 (FR tredge flip) Uw' Dw2
Uw2 Dw (FR tredge flip) Uw2 Dw'
Uw2 Dw' (FR tredge flip) Uw2 Dw
Uw' Dw2 (FR tredge flip) Uw Dw2
Uw' Dw' (FR tredge flip) Uw Dw

They all do the same thing except the bad wings are in different positions.


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## cincyaviation (Jan 4, 2010)

liljthedude said:


> Jake Gouldon said:
> 
> 
> > I just watched *dankoen's* (masterofthebass) 5x5 walkthrough solve again, and I saw that trick he did on one of the centres at 1:23 in the video below:
> ...



i realized that just a bit after i posted it, i knew the name, just didnt make the connection right away


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## DavidWoner (Jan 4, 2010)

e (FR tredge flip) e'

With e being a single slice, is kind of uncommon but still extremely useful.

I also sometimes chain things together like

m' U R U' 3L U' R U R' F R' F' Lw'

Rob can you make a list somewhere with all of your algs/tricks? I basically use a watered-down version of your edges and think I have a lot to learn from you.


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## Robert-Y (Jan 4, 2010)

DavidWoner said:


> e (FR tredge flip) e'
> 
> With e being a single slice, is kind of uncommon but still extremely useful.
> 
> ...



I think I might have listed all of my tricks in this thread 

I still haven't made tutorial for my 5x5x5 edges method. But that's good, because I've made some small changes. I've simplified it a bit (in my head...) in order to get better times. I'm still not completely satisfied with my method. Right now, it's a lot like AVG with a lot of "special cases". It's not completely flawless yet


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## Jake Gouldon (Jan 4, 2010)

I would like to see just some 5x5 solves, not a tutorial yet. I like trying to figure out what they do, and seeing how close my guess is and what I missed. I find it to be a good observation excersise.


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## Robert-Y (Jan 4, 2010)

4x4x4 LL:

E perm + PLL parity:

Using Maarten's idea for the two diagonal corners swap, I just found this really nice alg:

F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 Uw2 U' R' U' R' F R F'

Now to find an alg for the other E perm + PLL parity case...


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## Escher (Jan 4, 2010)

Robert-Y said:


> 4x4x4 LL:
> 
> E perm + PLL parity:
> 
> ...



Wow, that's brilliant! I hate that parity PLL!

Another 2 using T perm:

R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' (PLL parity) U R U R' F

R U R' U' (PLL parity) U2 R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F

In fact, that idea seems to be useful for any PLL alg that has two LL edges opposite each other on the U layer with the same orientation at some point in the alg. T, Y, Js and Rs spring to mind immediately, I'm sure there are more.
Perhaps this one look 2 alg PLL is better than 2 look 2 algs? At least for the worst cases like the one you just made I think it is...


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## Robert-Y (Jan 4, 2010)

Escher said:


> Robert-Y said:
> 
> 
> > 4x4x4 LL:
> ...



Yeah this idea is really helpful! 

I figured out that for the other E perm + PLL case, you could somehow use a V perm to find a good algorithm. However with the most common V perm algs, the other two edges are never in line with each other in a convenient position, whilst the algorithm is being executed; so there isn't really a good time for executing the PLL parity algorithm with the most common V perms...

and btw: R U R' *U (PLL parity)* R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F is better


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## Robert-Y (Jan 4, 2010)

Well I just found my own V perm (19 moves :s) using two OLL algs. Then I used this somehow to find an alg for the other E perm + PLL parity case:

R' U' R U' r2 U2 r2 Uw2 r2 Uw2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R' U' L' U R' U' L

meh...

EDIT: :fp

http://frederickbadie.free.fr/444PLLparity.html

The algorithms on that page for both E perm + PLL parity cases for so much faster and shorter than what I've found so far....


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## rachmaninovian (Jan 4, 2010)

or you can use clement gallet's solver? probably need a powerful computer though...kekeke


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## Robert-Y (Jan 4, 2010)

4x4x4 last two centres:


1. Set up: Rw U2 Rw' U F

Instead of doing:

a. F' U' (or U' F'), Rw U2 Rw' (or Lw F2' Lw')
OR
b. F U (or U F), Rw' F2 Rw (or Lw' U2 Lw)

You could do:

a. Lw' U' Lw Rw U Rw'
or
b. Rw U Rw' Lw' U' Lw


2. Set up: Rw U2 Rw' U' F'

Instead of doing:

a. F' U' (or U' F'), Rw' F2 Rw (or Lw' U2 Lw)
OR
b. F U (or U F), Rw U2 Rw' (or Lw F2' Lw)

You could do one of the following "algorithms":

a. Rw U' Rw2' F Rw
b. Rw' F Rw2 U' Rw'
c. Lw' U Lw2 F' Lw'
d. Lw F' Lw2' U Lw


I think I learnt this from Chris Hardwick from somewhere...


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## joey (Jan 4, 2010)

I'm sure I showed you some centre stuff at Bristol Rob.. I just can't remember what it was


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## Robert-Y (Jan 4, 2010)

joey said:


> I'm sure I showed you some centre stuff at Bristol Rob.. I just can't remember what it was



I remember when we were building a first centre on the 4x4x4, I didn't really like the way you did it because I thought I would probably get a lock up if I did it your way But then I kinda realised we were using Charlie's cube, which hardly locks up ...


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## guitardude7241 (Jan 4, 2010)

how about let's use this scramble(5x5), post your solution(if you want to), and we can learn from each other's tricks! please put a star by the "trick" you want to show, maybe an explanation beside it.

D2 F D2 f2 l2 F' u U2 f R' F' l U' L' r2 B2 b' F2 L r R' u2 B2 U' b f F' l2 B L l' r2 R D' u b2 D2 l' F' D U' B' F' D R' D2 d' U' R' b2

little letters are double layer turns.

x' B' r' y' u d' U' l' x2 y D' U2 l F2 l' F' d' D l

l U2 l' y U2 l' U l y R' y R2 u d U r U2 r'

u' d F y' z U2 r U2 r' U r2

l F2 l' x' l' U2 l F' l' U 3r U2 l' U2 l

x' U2 l' U' l F2 x r' U r U' r' U r U' r' U2 r


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## masterofthebass (Jan 4, 2010)

for guitardudes scramble: D2 F D2 f2 l2 F' u U2 f R' F' l U' L' r2 B2 b' F2 L r R' u2 B2 U' b f F' l2 B L l' r2 R D' u b2 D2 l' F' D U' B' F' D R' D2 d' U' R' b2

centers:
x' z r l' U' F r' F r z' r2 R' y x' F U r' F r' (orange center)
F r U r' z x' U' l' x' z' r U2 r' z' x' U' D' r' l2 x' z' U r U2 r' z (red center)
U' r' U2 l F' l' x' U' l' x' U' r l (green center)
r l2 U r' l U2 l x2 U2 l2 U2 l2 U l2 U2 l2 (yellow center)
l U l' x' l' U l r U2 r' U' r U2 r' (last 2 centers)

edges: (flip UF) = U' R U R' x U R' U' x'
R U' R U r x' z2 x R U' R U r' l (green-white)
z y' R' U' R y L' U L d' u' (orange-white)
z' U' R U l x U R U' r l' (blue-white)
z2 x U' R' U l (orange-yellow)
z' R U R' d2 z' R' U' R U l z' R U R' z r l' (red-yellow and green-yellow)
U' R U l z U R' U' R d' (blue-yellow)
R U R' u (red-white)
z2 R U R' z l r2 (restore centers)
r2 x (flip UF) r2 (blue-red)
x' l' x' (flip UF) l (orange-green)
x U2 x U2 (double parity)


pretty normal solve for me. Don't think I used any 'tricks' except for where I started the green-yellow edge, stopped, did red-yellow, and then went back to the green-yellow. That's basically what I do a lot of the time to take advantage of things that are already in place.


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## Cyrus C. (Jan 4, 2010)

It would probably help if you linked it to Lucas's simulator, so people could see what you're doing instead of focusing on getting the moves right.

Oh and here's a scramble for 4x4x4: F' B Rw2 R' Fw B R' B Fw' Uw R2 F' D Uw' Fw' D L D U' B2 F2 Uw' F R Rw' Uw' B2 D' Rw2 R2 Fw2 U2 L2 B2 F2 Uw' L D L F2


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## Robert-Y (Jan 4, 2010)

From Dan's 5x5x5 solution:


*x' z r l' U' F r' F r* z' r2 R' y x' F U r' F r' (orange center)

The 2x3 block could be solved by doing:

x' z l' U' l' r


r l2 U r' l U2 l x2 *U2 l2 U2 l2 U l2 U2 l2* (yellow center)

Another solution: r' U2 r l2 U2 l2'


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## masterofthebass (Jan 4, 2010)

ok. THat previous post had some errors, so here's the link to lucas's app. drag down the bottom of the java applet to see the cube better.

5x5 solve.


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## Jake Gouldon (Jan 4, 2010)

That applet isn't working for me...


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## Escher (Jan 5, 2010)

Jake Gouldon said:


> That applet isn't working for me...


 
put this in the solution window instead:

x' z 2r 2l' U' F 2r' F 2r z 2r2 R' y x' F U 2r' F 2r' F 2r U 2r' z x' U' 2l' x' z' 2r U2 2r' z x' U' D' 2r' 2l2 x' z' U 2r U2 2r' z U' 2r' U2 2l F' 2l' x' U 2l' x' U 2r 2l 2r 2l2 U 2r' 2l U2 2l x2 U2 2l2 U2 2l2 U 2l2 U2 2l2 2l U' 2l' x' 2l' U 2l 2r U2 2r' U' 2r U2 2r' R U' R U 2r x' z2 x R U' R U 2r' 2l z y' R' U' R y L' U L 2d' 2u' z' U' R U 2l x U R U' 2r 2l' z2 x2 U' R' U 2l z' R U R' 2d2 z' R' U' R U 2l z' R U R' z 2r 2l' U' R U 2l z U R' U' R 2d' R U R' 2u z2 R U R' z 2l 2r2 
2r2 x U' R U R' x U R' U' x' 2r2 x' 2l' x' U' R U R' x U R' U' x' 2l x2 U2 x U2 2r2 B2 2r' U2 2r' U2 x' U2 2r' U2 2r U2 2r' U2 2r2


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## Robert-Y (Jan 9, 2010)

Does anyone have any tips for the 3x3x3 stage on the 5x5x5? I seem kinda slow (compared to the faster cubers e.g. Dan or Erik). I think my average is about 20 - 25 seconds...


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## masterofthebass (Jan 9, 2010)

how about you tell me how to do it on 4x4, and I'll tell you how on 5x5


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## Robert-Y (Jan 9, 2010)

Well I've got one "trick" which helps me a lot for both cubes:

It's easy for me to do U' since my left hand is my dominant hand. But sometimes when I do U, the cube locks up. To stop this, I occasionally do U by pushing the U face with my left thumb as well as pulling it with my right index finger.


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## Robert-Y (Jan 17, 2010)

Ah...

I think I realised my problem:

On the 3x3x3 stage on the 4x4x4, I cover up the front centre with one of thumbs whilst turning to prevent myself from misturning other layers. However, I can't do this on the 5x5x5 as my thumbs aren't big enough, so I get more lock-ups and misturns.


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## Jake Gouldon (Jan 23, 2010)

masterofthebass said:


> ok. THat previous post had some errors, so here's the link to lucas's app. drag down the bottom of the java applet to see the cube better.
> 
> 5x5 solve.





Escher said:


> Jake Gouldon said:
> 
> 
> > That applet isn't working for me...
> ...



Tried it, the app is still not working for me. I hit the reload and test buttons after replacing the alg, and it just refreshes the page with a 3x3.

EDIT: Replaced it in the URL, and it works, except I can't input the scramble now...

EDIT:

I am stupid. I realized I had to scroll down the applet window. :fp


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## Cyrus C. (Jan 23, 2010)

When 2-pairing on 4x4 I like to be able to pair things up not only on the E layer but also the M layer. Also to lookahead I usually take the edge that won't be paired with anything & look for the other one during the solve, instead of getting 2 new edges to pair.


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## SkateboardingCuber (Jan 23, 2010)

blah said:


> Robert-Y said:
> 
> 
> > Get a solved 5x5x5 do these moves with white on top, green on front: Rw2 U' Rw B' Rw' Lw' B Lw x'
> ...



Worked for me 
It didn't at first, but then I realised I was doing an X rotation instead of X'


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