# Andrew Kang on the radio



## pcharles93 (Jul 24, 2008)

Not only do TV news stations pay no attention to what we're saying, now radios stations are doing the same.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jul 24, 2008)

pcharles93 said:


> Not only do TV news stations pay no attention to what we're saying, now radios stations are doing the same.



You realize it IS pronounced "kong", right?


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## pcharles93 (Jul 24, 2008)

Are you sure about that?


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jul 24, 2008)

pcharles93 said:


> Are you sure about that?



95% sure. That will have to depend on whether or not Andrew is Chinese or Korean ethnicity. If he's Chinese, 100%, Korean, 90%.


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## PCwizCube (Jul 24, 2008)

Yes, he is correct. If he is Chinese/Taiwanese that is how you pronounce "Kang". 

It gets a little annoying when people who don't speak Chinese pronounce Chinese names/places WAY differently than it's supposed to sound, but you can't blame them. 

For example, you guys know the Yellow River? I see people pronouncing it "Hwang Hee". It's actually pronounced "Hwong Heh."


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## brunson (Jul 24, 2008)

<sarcasm>I get annoyed when Chinese people can't say English words correctly.</sarcasm>

You realize they're completely different languages with different sets of phonemes, some of which non-native speakers don't even have to neural nets to differentiate between, right? Combine that with the fact that many people who are trying to pronounce these words have never heard them spoken correctly, and you get "Hwang Hee". 

I even have problems with English words. How do you pronounce "chitin". If you've never heard it pronounced correctly, I'll bet you $100 you get it wrong.

And why does Andrew appear to laugh at the pronunciation of his name at ~:58?


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## hdskull (Jul 24, 2008)

Andrew Kang is Korean. Well, I assumed that because his username is KRNballerzzz (something like that, but with KRN in it).


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## pcharles93 (Jul 24, 2008)

That's kinda true about how some people can't grasp non-Latin pronounciations. It's really annoying at my school when people ask about my Vietnamese name. It's Phuoc(I don't wanna add the accents). So many people have tried pronouncing it correctly. All have failed. And some have gotten in trouble for it.


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## shelley (Jul 24, 2008)

When you see "ang" in a Chinese name/word (and probably most Korean words) it's pronounced with a short a, like the a in father. English speakers tend to pronounce it with a longer a like in the word sang because of its spelling. I don't know Korean, but "kong" is probably closer to the native pronunciation that the way we usually say Kang.


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## Hubdra (Jul 24, 2008)

Yeah he was laughing at the way they were saying his name. It's pronounced 'Kahng'. But if you ask him personally he usually just says 'I'm Andrew Kang', american prounciation.


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## Hadley4000 (Jul 24, 2008)

He is Korean. And you'd think that he would know how to pronounce his own name.


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## shelley (Jul 24, 2008)

When I say my last name I say it with the English pronunciation, knowing that it's different from the native pronunciation.


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## fanwuq (Jul 24, 2008)

I hate saying my name, speaking Chinese to non-Chinese person, speaking English to Chinese person. It just feels awkward.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jul 24, 2008)

shelley said:


> When I say my last name I say it with the English pronunciation, knowing that it's different from the native pronunciation.



Americanized "Chang" is not even close to how it's pronounced in Mandarin.


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## PCwizCube (Jul 24, 2008)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> shelley said:
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> > When I say my last name I say it with the English pronunciation, knowing that it's different from the native pronunciation.
> ...


Is it the same pronunciation as when you say "sing" in Mandarin?
Or is it the same pronunciation as when you say "long" in Mandarin?

Also anyone know how to say "Yu" correctly as in Yu Nakajima or Yu Jeong-Min? I'm thinking it's the same pronunciation as "fish" in Mandarin but I'm not sure.

It's also hilarious when people pronounce "Zhou" or in the Zhou Danysty. Anyone here want to guess how to pronounce it? (Chinese-speaking people don't ruin it) Also try to pronounce "Kung" in Kung Fu.


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## tim (Jul 24, 2008)

Hadley4000 said:


> He is Korean. And you'd think that he would know how to pronounce his own name.



Haha, there are some stupid German parents how give their kids french names (maybe because it looks cool). But they pronounce it German. It sounds so weird and dumb...


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## brunson (Jul 24, 2008)

I had a co-worker than that was married to a Asian (Korean, I think, but I could be wrong) woman and when I met her the first time she introduced herself as "Hong", like "gong" in English as far as I could tell. But she corrected me when I repeated it and said, "No, Hong", and I said, "Hong?" and she said, "No, Hong". I swear I couldn't tell the tiniest difference in how the two of us were saying her name.

I remember reading in one of my developmental psych texts that in the first few years of life millions of neural connections are being set up every day in a childs brain and these networks are what allows you to understand spoken language. By some fairly young age the author said these neural nets are almost completely formed and remain fundamentally unchanged throughout the rest of your life, so if you didn't grow up hearing the phonemes that only occur in foreign languages, you are actually incapable of hearing the nuances of the language. The specific examples used were tonal languages like Chinese.


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## PCwizCube (Jul 24, 2008)

brunson said:


> I had a co-worker than that was married to a Asian (Korean, I think, but I could be wrong) woman and when I met her the first time she introduced herself as "Hong", like "gong" in English as far as I could tell. But she corrected me when I repeated it and said, "No, Hong", and I said, "Hong?" and she said, "No, Hong". I swear I couldn't tell the tiniest difference in how the two of us were saying her name.


LOL that is sometimes annoying when some non-Chinese speaking person asks me how to say a word in Chinese. I give them a random word and they pronounce so weird that it's funny. I tell them the correct way and they don't get it


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## MistArts (Jul 24, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


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How would you say sing in Chinese? 

Btw, people pronounce my last name as loo instead of lew.


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## PCwizCube (Jul 24, 2008)

MistArts said:


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Uhhhhh that is kind of complicated. You would say "chong" but in an energetic and fast way like how you would say "Ow!" or "Ouch!."


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## KConny (Jul 24, 2008)

brunson said:


> <sarcasm>I get annoyed when Chinese people can't say English words correctly.</sarcasm>?



Why the sarcams? If its okay for "Rubik's Cube Fan" to be annoyed when Americans can't say Chinese words correctly why wouldn't it be okay for you to think the other way round?


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## MistArts (Jul 24, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


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Is her last name 常?



fanwuq said:


> I hate saying my name, speaking Chinese to non-Chinese person, speaking English to Chinese person. It just feels awkward.


Is it pronounced Woo-CheONG Faan?


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## shelley (Jul 24, 2008)

MistArts said:


> Is her last name 常?



No, it's 張
I'm from Taiwan, and they Anglicize things differently. If it were done the Chinese way, it would be Zhang.


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## fanwuq (Jul 24, 2008)

MistArts said:


> Is it pronounced Woo-CheONG Faan?



I don't know how to pronounce whatever you just wrote! When I get home, I'll try to type my name in Chinese. My parents always type in Chinese, I never actually tried it yet!


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## PCwizCube (Jul 24, 2008)

shelley said:


> MistArts said:
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What? 張 has two pronunciations/meanings.... as for as I know. One means "long" and the other means I think "one 張 paper" (I don't feel like typing the Chinese way.) By the way I'm Taiwanese but I stink at Mandarin LOL. (Took the High School SAT last year and got like 235 points or something)



KConny said:


> brunson said:
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> > <sarcasm>I get annoyed when Chinese people can't say English words correctly.</sarcasm>?
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I don't get it. I looked at my post and I don't seen anything wrong with it. :confused:


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## MistArts (Jul 24, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


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張(zhang) means sheet and the surname
長(chang) or simplified(长) means long


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## PCwizCube (Jul 24, 2008)

MistArts said:


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Oh right... why didn't I think of that.

But then I don't get what Shelley is saying? Never mind, I'll just ask my parents.


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## MistArts (Jul 24, 2008)

fanwuq said:


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范无穷？
范吴穷？
范武琼？
范武窮？
范无窮？

Only the last one makes sense.


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## MistArts (Jul 24, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


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She means that it would be zhang in Mandarin and chang in Taiwanese.


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## Dene (Jul 24, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> Also anyone know how to say "Yu" correctly as in Yu Nakajima or Yu Jeong-Min?



For Yu Nakajima it is quite simply how we would say "you" but with not as long a sound (just a sharp "you", if that makes sense). 

Yu Jeong-Min is Korean so I'm not certain but I would guess it is the same.


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## PCwizCube (Jul 24, 2008)

MistArts said:


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Yes, I understand, but I'm Taiwanese, and I went to a Taiwanese Chinese school (hope that makes sense, learning Traditional Chinese) and I was taught it as "zhang".



Dene said:


> Rubik's Cube Fan said:
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Not trying to offend you, but how would you know that? I mean you don't speak Japanese do you? Or have you met him?


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## masterofthebass (Jul 24, 2008)

He does speak some japanese.


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## hdskull (Jul 25, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> Yes, I understand, but I'm Taiwanese, and I went to a Taiwanese Chinese school (hope that makes sense, learning Traditional Chinese) and I was taught it as "zhang".



It's pronouced the same way, but in spelling, Taiwanese usually spell it differently. If you speak cantonese it's cheung, but I guess the pronounciation is different, so I guess that wasn't such a good example. Well I guess a good example would be Erick, Eric, and Erik, different people spell it differently. Still pronounced the same.

235 on Mandarin SAT is impossible, AVERAGE is 760 I think.


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## shelley (Jul 25, 2008)

Taiwan uses Wade-Giles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade-Giles) while China uses pinyin to spell Chinese words with the western alphabet. It's just a different system of spelling.

張 is spelled Chang with Wade-Giles and Zhang with pinyin.


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## krnballerzzz (Jul 25, 2008)

Uh, just wanna clear this up...

You pronouce my name as Kang. Not Kong.

-Andrew Kang


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## keyan (Jul 25, 2008)

刘政民, 中岛悠



Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> It gets a little annoying when non-X speaking people pronounce X names/places WAY differently than it's supposed to sound, but you can't blame them.



Laugh at everyone else, but laugh at yourself first.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jul 25, 2008)

krnballerzzz said:


> Uh, just wanna clear this up...
> 
> You pronouce my name as Kang. Not Kong.
> 
> -Andrew Kang



Oh really? Eight years of listening to Korean on a pretty much daily basis and what my Korean friends say makes me not want to believe that.


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## Dene (Jul 25, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


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You don't have to worry about offending me, it's impossible  .

And Mr. Cohen is of course right. I learnt Japanese for 5 years at school and have even been to Japan on a school trip. Of course there is also the fact that Japanese is very similar to Maori in terms of pronounciation. Coming from New Zealand, Te Reo is shoved in my face daily. (Use your taringa! My pukupuku is empty!!!)


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## llamapuzzle (Jul 25, 2008)

you do realize that Andrew posted the video on his own channel, meaning he did the editing, so that would be him laughing at how they pronounced his name?


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## DavidWoner (Jul 25, 2008)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> krnballerzzz said:
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while it may be true that "kong" would be the appropriate pronunciation in Korea, its been my experience that many asian parents will pass on the anglicized pronunciation to their kids. maybe its just easier that way.

another example of this is Sikan Li:
when i saw his name written in his signature, i used the proper mandarin pronunciation. for a few months i used that pronunciation, then i saw on his facebook:


> Hey, my name is Sikan Li (pronounced see-can lee), I was born and raised in China untill the age of 10 when I immigrated here.


so even though i have been pronouncing it properly, i have been pronouncing it wrong. even more confusing(but perhaps providing more evidence for the point made about andrew kang) is the fact that he must have had it pronounced properly for the first 10 years of his life, so why the change? or am i completely wrong?

care to explain Sikan?


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## hdskull (Jul 25, 2008)

OH lol, wait, David you speak Mandarin???

It's just how you pronounce it in English. It's too complicated for people to pronounce it in Mandarin. Si the first sound(pronounced si as in rip in chinese), Kan 4th sound (pronounced kan as in look in chinese). Si is the part where nobody can get correct.

My mandarin teacher pronounce it correct.

Finally, I know of one person that actually read what I wrote, lol.


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## blah (Jul 25, 2008)

Interesting thread  Very. I speak Mandarin, Cantonese, and a little Vietnamese. (And if anyone's interested in South Asian languages, I know the entire Hindi alphabet too, which means I can read and write in Hindi, but I won't understand much of whatever I'm reading  But I guess Karthik and Bernett speak Tamil, since they're from Chennai.)



pcharles93 said:


> That's kinda true about how some people can't grasp non-Latin pronunciations. It's really annoying at my school when people ask about my Vietnamese name. It's Phuoc(I don't wanna add the accents). So many people have tried pronouncing it correctly. All have failed. And some have gotten in trouble for it.


Is it Phươc? I'll try to put it in English: F'-uh-k. F' would be the Phư-, -uh- is the ơ, and -k is the c. You make a weird noise at the apostrophe, it's just a noise, kinda like a schwa, but I really have no idea how to describe it. And Huynh would be Who-ing, combine the o- and the -i really fast so it almost sounds like one vowel with a smooth transition. It's fun trying to make this comprehensible to English speakers  And I can see how a mispronunciation of Phươc can get you in trouble  (Am I getting your name right, Charles?)



brunson said:


> How do you pronounce "chitin".


Kite-in. Learned that in Biology class.



MistArts said:


> Btw, people pronounce my last name as loo instead of lew.


Why:confused: Maybe it's the same reason they pronounce New York as Noo York 



MistArts said:


> Is her last name 常? ... Is it pronounced Woo-CheONG Faan?


No offense, but you probably don't know much Chinese if you think 常 is a common surname  And that attempt at Wuqiong's name is hilarious!



MistArts said:


> 范无穷？范吴穷？范武琼？范武窮？范无窮？ Only the last one makes sense.


Hilarious! I love the last one! (which, by the way, is exactly the same as the first one, just with traditional characters.) What a name  Maybe his parents wanted him to be rich.



keyan said:


> 刘政民, 中岛悠


Yu Jeong-Min's name was kinda obvious, but how did you find out Yu Nakajima's name?!



hdskull said:


> It's just how you pronounce it in English. It's too complicated for people to pronounce it in Mandarin. Si the first sound(pronounced si as in rip in chinese), Kan 4th sound (pronounced kan as in look in chinese). Si is the part where nobody can get correct.


The "i" in Si would be very close to the Vietnamese ư, but not exactly. Did people call you something like "sick-uhn" before you adapted the "see-can" thingy? By the way, what are the Chinese characters? I doubt anyone's name would be rip-look


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## MistArts (Jul 25, 2008)

blah said:


> MistArts said:
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Maybe they don't know how to say *iu*?



blah said:


> MistArts said:
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> > Is her last name 常? ... Is it pronounced Woo-CheONG Faan?
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But 常 is a surname. Plus, 常 means common. xD




blah said:


> MistArts said:
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> > 范无穷？范吴穷？范武琼？范武窮？范无窮？ Only the last one makes sense.
> ...



Lol. It could be his name. Just wait until he comes back. Now, try and guess my name.


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## blah (Jul 25, 2008)

I only know 常 is a last name because the dictionary says so  I haven't come across anyone with such a last name for the past 18 years of my life, and I can safely say I know at least 1000 Chinese guys (and girls), unless you count 嫦娥, who is the closest match 

Last name can either be 刘（劉） or 柳, though I'm 90% positive it's the former.

As for Baian...
If your parents are furniture manufacturers: 刘百案 (a hundred tables)
If your parents are chemists: 刘败氨 (bad ammonia )
If your parents are members of some cult: 刘拜暗 (worship darkness)
If your parents like lots of strokes: 刘掰盦
If your parents are plain weird: 刘摆鞍 (positioning a saddle???)

Best guess: 刘白安


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## MistArts (Jul 25, 2008)

blah said:


> I only know 常 is a last name because the dictionary says so  I haven't come across anyone with such a last name for the past 18 years of my life, and I can safely say I know at least 1000 Chinese guys (and girls), unless you count 嫦娥, who is the closest match
> 
> Last name can either be 刘（劉） or 柳, though I'm 90% positive it's the former.
> 
> ...



Close。It's 刘柏安。

Although it could be 刘拜俺。 AKA worship me.


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## fanwuq (Jul 25, 2008)

MistArts said:


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It's so frustrating reading this at work. All I can see are squares with 4 numbers in them instead of the actual words. I'll get back to this later. What's so hilarious? LOL??? ROF2L??? WTF2L???

EDIT: I attached a picture of my name that I just made in MS paint.

Now everyone should do that for theirs.


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## MistArts (Jul 25, 2008)

Oh my god.... I actually guess it in the first try. What verison of windows do you have?

It's so hard to write in MS paint...


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## fanwuq (Jul 25, 2008)

Here is an amusing way of guessing my name:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djVbFA6tnwE

Apparently, I'm Mr. Five-walls-of-food.


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## blah (Jul 25, 2008)

But dude, Five-walls-of-food would be Fan Wuqi*A*ng. And by the looks of your name, your parents are from mainland China? It doesn't look like a Taiwanese name to me, forget Hong Kong (you'd be Fan Mo Kong ), and people from my part of the world all have boring names, except me 

Edit: Of course not Taiwan, silly me. It's pinyin for god's sake 
Edit 2: Either everyone's handwriting here sucks, or MS Paint sucks for writing Chinese names.


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## fanwuq (Jul 25, 2008)

blah said:


> But dude, Five-walls-of-food would be Fan Wuqi*A*ng. And by the looks of your name, your parents are from mainland China? It doesn't look like a Taiwanese name to me, forget Hong Kong (you'd be Fan Mo Kong ), and people from my part of the world all have boring names, except me
> 
> Edit: Of course not Taiwan, silly me. It's pinyin for god's sake
> Edit 2: Either everyone's handwriting here sucks, or MS Paint sucks for writing Chinese names.



LOL. Why don't you try using your mouse to click and write? ( you can't use more than 30 seconds!)

Why "Fan Mo Kong," not "Mo Fang?" Yes, Mainland. Xi'an.

Blah, did you compete officially yet? For what country?


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## MistArts (Jul 25, 2008)

You know we are getting a *little* off-topic.


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## DavidWoner (Jul 25, 2008)

hdskull said:


> OH lol, wait, David you speak Mandarin???
> 
> It's just how you pronounce it in English. It's too complicated for people to pronounce it in Mandarin. Si the first sound(pronounced si as in rip in chinese), Kan 4th sound (pronounced kan as in look in chinese). Si is the part where nobody can get correct.
> 
> ...



yeah i took mandarin from 7th-10th grade, and i was ok at it. i have forgotten most of it by now. my teacher is american, but im pretty sure he used to be a spy in china. he speaks fluent mandarin, among other languages. he lived in china for a few years in the 80's, but never told us why he was there or what he did. he also has some weird scar on his arm but he wont tel us how he got it, and whenever we bring up the subject of him being a spy he changes the subject. we asked for four years, and not once did he deny the fact that he was a spy.


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## hdskull (Jul 25, 2008)

blah said:


> Did people call you something like "sick-uhn" before you adapted the "see-can" thingy? By the way, what are the Chinese characters? I doubt anyone's name would be rip-look



"see-can" was actually what my first teacher called me when I tried to tell her the correct pronunciation. I've been called "psy-can" "see-khan" and whatever you can think of, haha. Those two are the most common.

My Chinese name is 李斯瞰. You might or might not be able to read that.



Vault312 said:


> yeah i took mandarin from 7th-10th grade, and i was ok at it. i have forgotten most of it by now. my teacher is american, but im pretty sure he used to be a spy in china. he speaks fluent mandarin, among other languages. he lived in china for a few years in the 80's, and not once did he deny the fact that he was a spy.



That's very amazing! More and more American's are learning to speak Chinese, I actually have a black friend who learned Chinese, the teacher thought he was in the wrong class. Wow, a spy, there are spies everywhere, we just don' know. I remember they busted a double spy for China/US last year.


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## pcharles93 (Jul 26, 2008)

MistArts said:


> You know we are getting a *little* off-topic.



I don't think so. I just put up one of Andrew's video with a radio interview where they botch 90% of the info, but learning about every East Asian language is pretty good too.


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## blah (Jul 26, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> LOL. Why don't you try using your mouse to click and write? ( you can't use more than 30 seconds!)


Dude I'm getting a tablet PC 



fanwuq said:


> Why "Fan Mo Kong," not "Mo Fang?" Yes, Mainland. Xi'an.


Why Mo Fang out of the blue :confused: I speak Cantonese as well, and Mo Fang makes no sense to me.



fanwuq said:


> Blah, did you compete officially yet? For what country?


Nah I'd have to take a something like a 5-6 hour plane flight to the nearest competition  Probably never gonna compete in my life. I'm Malaysian by the way.



pcharles93 said:


> ... but learning about every East Asian language is pretty good too.


I thought we were only learning about Chinese here? By the way did I get your Vietnamese name right?


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## pcharles93 (Jul 26, 2008)

Your explanation for my first name was very correct. I don't think I can reiterate that to my friends though. My last name's explanation had one tiny detail incorrect. Instead of "who-ing" as the Anglicized pronounciation, it should be "hwin." Endings involving the letter N are somewhat confusing. "Nh" is just an N sound. "N" is pronounced as "Ng." And "Ng" is just an N sound.


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## fanwuq (Jul 27, 2008)

blah said:


> fanwuq said:
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> > Why "Fan Mo Kong," not "Mo Fang?" Yes, Mainland. Xi'an.
> ...



http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=59587&postcount=25


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## blah (Jul 27, 2008)

Ah, got it. But just for your information, the Mo in Fan Mo Kong (Cantonese version) is actually pronounced "mou" (as in pinyin), but it's just spelled Mo in Hong Kong.

By the way I've always called it mo fang, mo shu fang kuai just doesn't sound right. Why can't the Chinese give some credit to Mr Rubik?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 28, 2008)

blah said:


> fanwuq said:
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> > Blah, did you compete officially yet? For what country?
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Sorry, I can't resist responding when I see a post like this. blah, I see there's a Hwei Ru Ong in the database who competes for Malaysia. I'm guessing a student attending college in California, considering all the competitions are in California. Maybe this person could be made a delegate (assuming the person will ever return home to Malaysia), and then you could host a competition there in Malaysia? I'd just love to see you get some big cube BLD solves that were official, considering how good you've become at it, and considering you've even made some good contributions for ideas on how to solve them.


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## fanwuq (Jul 28, 2008)

I agree with Mike, perhaps you'll travel somewhere eventually?


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## blah (Jul 28, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> Sorry, I can't resist responding when I see a post like this. blah, I see there's a Hwei Ru Ong in the database who competes for Malaysia. I'm guessing a student attending college in California, considering all the competitions are in California. Maybe this person could be made a delegate (assuming the person will ever return home to Malaysia), and then you could host a competition there in Malaysia?


Hmm, that's a thought. Pardon my ignorance, but how does a random person apply to become a delegate? I thought the WCA assigns people to be delegates?



Mike Hughey said:


> I'd just love to see you get some big cube BLD solves that were official, considering how good you've become at it...


I have?! I thought the definition of "good" went from sub-10 to sub-8 after Nationals, and after Rafal posted his insane times at the accomplishment thread?  I haven't touched my 4x4x4 for more than 2 weeks now though (neither speedsolving nor BLD), so I probably can't sub-10 anymore, but you just inspired me, so I'll probably try one again tomorrow 



Mike Hughey said:


> ... and considering you've even made some good contributions for ideas on how to solve them.


Again, I have?! What ideas:confused:



fanwuq said:


> I agree with Mike, perhaps you'll travel somewhere eventually?


Anyone willing to sponsor me to California? Oh and that means a four year college education sponsorship 'cause I'm going to college next year


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## ShadenSmith (Jul 28, 2008)

You should start a paypal account to sponsor your travel!


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## hdskull (Jul 28, 2008)

Why you don't just talk to Tyson, and ask him. I'm sure someone can become a delegate over there or he can get a delegate over there, if you have everything planned out. Things can always be worked out. Talked to the cubers in Singapore at all ? I remember there was quite a few. I know Singapore and Malaysia are not that far apart from each other.


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## blah (Jul 29, 2008)

Actually, I _am_ in Singapore right now, studying  I go back home twice or thrice a year during the school vacations. So I know both the Malaysian and Singaporean cubing communities very well, and I guess both communities are pretty familiar with me too. And one of the Malaysian guys has already been emailing Tyson/Ron a lot lately, but we just don't have enough competitors in the region, nor do we have the financial resources to fly a delegate in.

I think it's an Asian mentality thingy, people just don't want to participate when "they know they're gonna lose anyway". So we can't even get 12 participants out of a combined community of 300+ members across both Malaysian and Singaporean cube forums, that's sad.

Yeah we're not that far apart, in fact, we're so close we used to be one country some 40 years ago. But we have this love-hate relationship with one another 

PS: We are _so not_ off topic


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