# Blindfold memorization help please



## pkvk9122 (Jan 9, 2011)

Hi there,

I can successfully solve a rubik's cube with M2/old pochmann. However, my memorization speed is like...+20 mins. I have looked at the other threads on memorization but everything on there, i couldn't understand... my original method to memorize the EP is that I gave every single piece a name. When i have a long chain of letters i make each letter into a word and then into a phrase (btw i am talking about M2/old pochmann).

I have gave 3OP a try and well... im confused which method to use. Can someone please give me a detailed explanation on some methods to memorize on 3OP. oh and just for your information... im only 12 years old 

Thanks in advance

pkvk9122


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## Tyjet66 (Jan 9, 2011)

Well, I have no experience with 3OP but, I'll explain how I memorize. For the edges, since my buffer is UR, I tap the sticker on R, I then tap wherever that stick needs to go, I continue this for all the edges. For the corners, I tap the U sticker on the UBL corner (my buffer) I then tap wherever the U sticker needs to go, I do this for all the corners. I do not use any words/letters/numbers, instead, I just repeat the series of taps until I get all the pieces memorized through muscle memory (much like learning new algorithms.) After a few attempts, this will be easy to start using, good luck!


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## Cubenovice (Jan 9, 2011)

I used to do practically the same: I had an "image" for every single sticker.
This makes the story-memo quite long.

You already seem to be using letters so "all you have to do" is pair up your letters, making the memo shorter and easier to recall.

Say your memo is CWPLAT
the story could be: a *c*o*w *is practicing its *PL*L *at*tacks

Three words contain six letters, cutting the story length in half.

Instead of making up the words "on the fly" it is good to prepare a list of words for all posible letter combinations.


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## pkvk9122 (Jan 9, 2011)

Hi Tyjet66,

By what you are talking about i think that you use M2/old pochmann. Because i use the exact same buffer for the corners. i also think that the method you use is called visual memorization. Maybe it would work for M2/old pochmann, but after several attempts i couldnt do it really well. After 2 or 3 minutes i forget everthing that i have tried to memorize. Visual memorization also doesn't work with 3OP very well, mainly because we do the orientation and permutation seperately... but thanks for replying. (maybe i will switch back to M2/old pochmann)=)

And now cubenovice.

That is a good method except that when i try to do that, your example has practicing in it too. would that "p" affect my memorization? also i also dont think that that method really helps 3OP. as i said earlier 3OP does the orientation and permutation seperately.

I am still not sure which method I should try to go for. so could you also give me the difference and how it will change when i try to get faster? i've heard that the world record holder Mr Zhuang uses 3OP "freestyle" i still do not understand what freestyle means but i also wonder if M2/old pochmann can keep up with that speed. would M2/R2 keep up??? which method is the best for speed blindfold? 

I really appreciate you for replying my memorization problem. (not to mention replying in like a couple of minutes!!!) oh and btw i only just registered here. makes me feel very welcome here. =)

Again thanks a bunch =)


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## theace (Jan 9, 2011)

I feel like throwing my cube at a wall. I've been at it for 3 weeks now and not one frickin edge cycle has come out correct. I'm considering giving up now. I'm pretty much convinced I can't bld.


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## Kynit (Jan 9, 2011)

theace said:


> I feel like throwing my cube at a wall. I've been at it for 3 weeks now and not one frickin edge cycle has come out correct. I'm considering giving up now. I'm pretty much convinced I can't bld.


 
It's hard! It took me a lot of tries that finished looking completely scrambled. Have you tried this: memorize the cube, write down your memo, and keep your eyes open as you solve, just to make sure you've memorized the right pieces? Maybe there's an execution mistake that you're not noticing.


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## Vinny (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm going to start blind solving soon, or, at least trying. What would be the easiest memo method?


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## Cubenovice (Jan 9, 2011)

pkvk9122 said:


> Hi Tyjet66,
> That is a good method except that when i try to do that, your example has practicing in it too. would that "p" affect my memorization? also i also dont think that that method really helps 3OP. as i said earlier 3OP does the orientation and permutation seperately.



This memo method is indeed not really suitable for 3OP but it is a solution for your long memo.
And yes, the P word is applicable to all things cubing ;-)



theace said:


> I feel like throwing my cube at a wall. I've been at it for 3 weeks now and not one frickin edge cycle has come out correct. I'm considering giving up now. I'm pretty much convinced I can't bld.



Perhaps some open eye practice would do you good?
Keep working with the same scramble until it clicks, then try with your eyes closed.
Same scramble, until it works...


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## Tyjet66 (Jan 9, 2011)

theace said:


> I feel like throwing my cube at a wall. I've been at it for 3 weeks now and not one frickin edge cycle has come out correct. I'm considering giving up now. I'm pretty much convinced I can't bld.


 
Memorize 3 edges, do BLD, repeat until it's easy, move onto 4, then 5, 6, 7, until you can do all 12 edges. Once you are at 12, keep doing all 12 edges until you have a 75%+ success rate. A quick tip for doing edges, do a random scramble, fix just the corners and then memorize, doing that will give you less to focus on, making it easier. For the corners, it is the exact opposite, memorize 3 corners, do BLD, repeat until it's easy, move onto 4, then 5, 6, 7, then 8. After you can do all 8, just keep repeating that until you are comfortable enough to no longer worry about it. A quick tip for corners, do a random scramble, fix just the edges and then memorize. Finally, after you get to that point where you are comfortable with both steps, start doing full attempts.


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## uberCuber (Jan 9, 2011)

pkvk9122 said:


> i've heard that the world record holder Mr Zhuang uses 3OP "freestyle"


 
1. Mr. Zhuang is no longer the WR holder
2. The method he uses does involve 3-cycles, but it is not 3OP. They are 3-cycles that solve orientation and permutation simultaneously (like how M2/old pochmann solves orientation and permutation simultaneously, except solving 2 pieces at a time with a 3-cycle rather than 1 piece at a time with Y-perm/M2).


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## wontolla (Jan 9, 2011)

> i've heard that the world record holder Mr Zhuang uses 3OP "freestyle" i still do not understand what freestyle means but i also wonder if M2/old pochmann can keep up with that speed. would M2/R2 keep up??? which method is the best for speed blindfold?



I guess the fastest BLD "method" is freestyle. But M2/R2 is very close. At least if you count the number of movements in Stefan example and compare them to Alejandro's WR solve.

Zhuang used freestyle for the 32.27 world record.
See reconstruction: http://archive.garron.us/solves/2010/zhuang_32_27_BLD.htm

Alejandro used freestyle for the 30.90 world record.
See reconstruction: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?26061-NEW-WR-BLD-3X3-30.90&p=500649#post500649

Frestyle means that you don't really follow a predetermined method, you mainly use commutators to solve 2 cubies at the time (and the third cubie could end up in your buffer, although the buffer can change).

I suggest you keep working on the M2/old pochmann for now. But eventually you will want to move to M2/R2 because old pochmann is slow in terms of number of movements (it takes a hole PLL to solve just one cubie). Whereas M2/R2 the "algorithm" is a simple M2 or R2 turn.

In the meantime, if you plan to go freestyle, you can learn how to think of commutators for each situation. For corners there are like 378 cases but more than a half of them are the simplest kind of commutator. Here is a useful tutorial: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?12268-BH-Tutorial


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## mr6768 (Jan 9, 2011)

make story with series of letters . if it didn't work then letter memorization method is not efficient . you can try other methods .


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## cmhardw (Jan 9, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Perhaps some open eye practice would do you good?
> Keep working with the same scramble until it clicks, then try with your eyes closed.
> Same scramble, until it works...


 
^^^ Completely agree with this. Also take a look at my DNF post mortem method if you want to be able to reconstruct what you did wrong on a DNF solve (it's time consuming, but it helps!).

I really like cubenovice's suggestion best, though: _same scramble until it works_.

-------------

To the OP, I honestly can't remember how I used to memorize back when I used 3OP. I think I did everything visually, though. I know most people don't like to take memo to this extreme, but I can't stress enough how *quickly*, and easily you can memorize using single syllable words. This method literally uses an evolutionary survival skill which is wired into your brain, the 10 second auditory loop, as your memorization method. The downside is that memorizing an entire 3x3x3 is a bit too much information to use this approach effectively. I use this method for edges though, and I can one pass memo them almost every single time. I've never been considered one of the top memorizers for BLD when compared to the people at the top either.

You could use visual or images for corners, but definitely go with single syllable words for edges. It's so *simple* and effortless to memorize them this way it's freaky.


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## pkvk9122 (Jan 10, 2011)

Hi,

For M2/R2 is there any good tutorial website or videos which i can read? on Stefan's website it was a little too confusing for me. I know how to do M2/old pochmann and 3OP really easily with my eyes open. (and yes i have tried to write my memo down and do it while watching my memo) i might try to learn R2 more thoroughly and also give a shot at visual memorization... or the letters that make 1 syllable words. Oh and does anyone know how fast can M2/R2 peak (excluding memorization time)?

Thanks

pkvk9122


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## kinch2002 (Jan 10, 2011)

I wouldn't recommend R2. It's not great tbh. Old Pochmann corners can be fast enough for you for now, especially if you use J and L perms as well as Y.
This is how I memo (I average 1:20-1:30, but my method can definitely get sub-1 with more practise):
Edges: Letter made into phrases like you already are doing
Corners: Auditory letters. I literally go through the cycle thinking of the letters in my head, and then just stringing them together into one 'word' which is just made up of how you might pronounce the word that those letters spell out.
Execution: Corners first because I just have this 'word' in my head, and I repeat it over and over in my head while I execute them. So I don't really memorise them well at all - it's just a case of keeping the word on the tip of your tongue. Then edge execution to finish.
Another piece of advice - read cmhardw's post and definitely consider it seriously - he's a legend amongst the blindfold cubing community


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## Marcell (Jan 10, 2011)

pkvk9122 said:


> Oh and does anyone know how fast can M2/R2 peak (excluding memorization time)?



Stefan writes: "I'm convinced with memorization and good recall a 40 seconds real average for execution is possible." I just did an avarage of 12 (sighted bld solves) with pure M2/R2 and got 40.45, and I'm not even a fast turner.
Even so, if you aim to be really fast one day, you'll want to use 3-cycles. To do this practically, you can learn 3OP now, and then later get rid of the orientation part - or you can, of course, learn R2 now, and then later move to R2+. 

As for the tutorial, just stick with the one on Stefan's webpage, it's a totally decent description - and btw, I don't think you would find many other R2 tutorials, as not many people use R2.


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## peedu (Jan 10, 2011)

pkvk9122 said:


> my memorization speed is like...+20 mins.


 
Hi,

I assigned a letter to each sticker and did not worry if the same letter appeared again in edges and corners or in new cycles.

I remember that my first success was around 17 minutes just with remembering letters. I have achieved 5.xx with that and using Classic Pochmann for both edges and corners.

One way to practice is:
1) throw a solved cube in the air,
2) catch it, do a T-perm (or some other simple thing)
3) memorise
4) solve.

That way the memory will be very short and you can practice in very short sessions.

Peedu


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## pkvk9122 (Jan 11, 2011)

*list of images to do with color on a rubiks blindfold...*

Hi,
i am learning M2/R2 and i can do it fluently. however using Stefan Pochmann's site, he mentions he uses mental images. one of those was donald duck for blue/white. but i find it very hard to create my own pictures. could anyone give me a full list of images please? and if they are from a show or a special place where you dont see it often, please tell me where iti is from so i can see it using google!

Best regards

victor


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## Zane_C (Jan 11, 2011)

Or you could cut you memo in half with letter pairs. Pair two letters together to form one word/image/sound, whatever you like.


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## hr.mohr (Jan 11, 2011)

I think that there is a list in the wiki, but images tend to work best when they are personal.


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## Simboubou (Jan 12, 2011)

Images definitely work best when they are yours. If you REALLY can't find any, then maybe that memo-method isn't the one that suits you...

I am really not sure that letter pairs can be usefull for single blind. But that is a debate deserving its own thread.


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## Cubenovice (Jan 12, 2011)

Just create your own images.

example: the orange-green edge
Think of orange-green stuff in which one of the colors is dominant

Orange sticker = carrot mostly orange, little green at top
Green sticker = parrot green bird, orange beak
etc

Very easy to translate the images to pieces but you get a very long story to memorize>
With letter-pairs you cut the length of the story in half (or even more when you add some freestyling with auditory memory)

May I suggest you browse through the thread on memory methods?


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## wontolla (Jan 13, 2011)

To make your own list, go to Google images and enter the two colours folowing by a concept.

For example, if you are into comics, enter "red blue comics" and pick one image that you recognize, for example spiderman.

The problem with using other people's list is that you won't recognize some words (I certanly can't place those Pokemon characters).


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## DennisStrehlau (Jan 13, 2011)

pkvk9122 said:


> Hi,
> i am learning M2/R2 and i can do it fluently. however using Stefan Pochmann's site, he mentions he uses mental images. one of those was donald duck for blue/white. but i find it very hard to create my own pictures. could anyone give me a full list of images please? and if they are from a show or a special place where you dont see it often, please tell me where iti is from so i can see it using google!
> 
> Best regards
> ...


 
Seriously man. I HOPE you are joking. Put at least a bit effort in BLD by your own. You get methods for solving a rubiks cube blindfolded in the internet as you know. The ONLY thing you have to do by yourself is finding some stupid images. I invented a list of almost 1000 images for my a+b=c image list. THAT was hard. YOU will find those 43 images by your own. And yes, its more helpfull if you create them by your own.
Good luck.

Dennis


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## Tyjet66 (Jan 13, 2011)

If you can't come up with images, maybe you should switch memory methods. May I suggest visual?


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## riffz (Jan 14, 2011)

I highly recommend that you give each sticker on your cube a letter and avoid using images based on the colour of the pieces. I found that method very slow when I first started BLD cubing and I improved a lot when I switched to using letters.

It should also be much easier to choose your own images using single letters, rather than 2 colours.


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## huytton (Nov 4, 2018)

wontolla said:


> I guess the fastest BLD "method" is freestyle. But M2/R2 is very close. At least if you count the number of movements in Stefan example and compare them to Alejandro's WR solve.
> 
> Zhuang used freestyle for the 32.27 world record.
> See reconstruction: http://archive.garron.us/solves/2010/zhuang_32_27_BLD.htm
> ...




Has anyone been able to do a reconstruction of one of Shivam Bansal's BLD solves? I think he uses freestyle as well.


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## mark49152 (Nov 4, 2018)

huytton said:


> Has anyone been able to do a reconstruction of one of Shivam Bansal's BLD solves? I think he uses freestyle as well.


You're replying to a post from 2011. All the top BLDers use 3style these days, and there are many reconstructions available.


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## abunickabhi (Nov 5, 2018)

huytton said:


> Has anyone been able to do a reconstruction of one of Shivam Bansal's BLD solves? I think he uses freestyle as well.



Freestyle is not a method in the BLD community as of 2018, many of the top solvers use 3-style, which was popularized by Noah Arthurs way back in 2015.

3-style is ridiculously fast method, and many cubers including Shivam use it to its varying potential.


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