# Do you get PLL skips too often?



## tikva (Nov 20, 2008)

Hello fellow speedsolvers!

I have been into cubing for 4.5 months, learning fridrich as my first method. I learned all the PLLs and OLLs before I could average 40. Now I average 25.

Please read my first post!

I had 13 PLL skips in last three days. 
No idea how many cubes done total.

I know chance for a PLL skip is 1/72, considering all the possible permutations of the LL after OLL, but is this really so in practice? I mean, can the way of scrambling affect the PLL?

I don't use computer generated scrambles. I generally do Lw or Lw' and then some Us and D's, repeat, repeat, repeat... then cube rotation and repeat, repeat... then throw in some (R' F' R2 U')s. (yes, it's the R PLL finish... I can practice algorithms while scrambling )

I once got the exact same scramble (only 'shifted' in color) using my algorithm twice in a row. It was very strange since it was a pretty long scramble (my guess 40 moves). All the same F2L pairs, same OLL, same PLL...
So it's possible I learned to do a few scrambles from muscle memory and I don't notice the sameness of the scrambles, since they can be hours apart. So I can have a "PLL skip" scramble, ugly F2L scramble (a lot of these )...

Then there's also a tiny possibility of having solved ~(72 * 13 = 936) cubes in 3 days ...

Do the computer-generated scrambles really generate a random distribution after F2L + OLL or just F2L? How about just after applying the scrambles?

And for the end...
How much do you PLL skip?


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## nitrocan (Nov 20, 2008)

Hey, 4-5 days ago I had 8 PLL skips out of 12 solves.


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## joey (Nov 20, 2008)

Scrambles can't affect the OLL/PLL. You should try to use a different hand scrambling technique, if you can get the same scramble twice in a row.

(although daniel lundwall is very good at this, and gives the impression of doing a truly random scramble, but yet can do the same scramble lots of times in a row, it's crazy!)


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## flee135 (Nov 20, 2008)

tikva said:


> I know chance for a PLL skip is 1/72, considering all the possible permutations of the LL after OLL, but is this really so in practice? I mean, can the way of scrambling affect the PLL?
> 
> I don't use computer generated scrambles. I generally do Lw or Lw' and then some Us and D's, repeat, repeat, repeat... then cube rotation and repeat, repeat... then throw in some (R' F' R2 U')s. (yes, it's the R PLL finish... I can practice algorithms while scrambling )
> 
> ...



I think scrambling the cube by hand can sometimes affect whether there is a PLL skip or not (especially if you use a lot of the same patterns, like you do). But still, how you solve the cross, F2L, and OLL will change whether you have a PLL skip or not, assuming you use Fridrich. So it's not always the scrambling.

I have also scrambled the cube exactly the same before twice in a row as well. I find it funny because I happened to be doing the same exact scramble and happened to stop scrambling at the exact time.


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## Erik (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't get them too much but I always get like 2 in 10 solves in practise and then 0 in competition  so I just get them at the wrong time


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## Escher (Nov 20, 2008)

skips have absolutely NOTHING to do with the scramble. literally, nada.
in fact, the only thing that affects OLL skipping is the last two or even last slots, and with PLL skips how you perform the OLL (i.e one look, two look, three look, different algs etc).

Edit

Erik, i lol'd at the last sentence.

3x3 WR anyone?



Edit 2

oops, i suppose they do joey...
still depends on what orientation you scramble on.


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## joey (Nov 20, 2008)

Cross skips have stuff to do with the scramble


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## Sa967St (Nov 20, 2008)

theres no such thing as too many pll skips


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## tikva (Nov 20, 2008)

nitrocan said:


> Hey, 4-5 days ago I had 8 PLL skips out of 12 solves.



If you said 7, i would have believed you. 



Erik said:


> I don't get them too much but I always get like 2 in 10 solves in practise and then 0 in competition  so I just get them at the wrong time



How unfair! You must always be behind your PLL-skipping competition


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## PatrickJameson (Nov 20, 2008)

I get pll skips like 1/500 solves >_>. I wish i was as lucky as you guys...


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## Escher (Nov 20, 2008)

i once got an avg of 5 where all the solves that counted for the avg were PLL skips.
funnily enough, of the two that were discounted, the one with the absolutely appalling last layer (a dot OLL i didnt know + an N perm) was sub 15, and the one with an anti-sune and an A perm was sup 20...


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## Dene (Nov 20, 2008)

Erik said:


> I don't get them too much but I always get like 2 in 10 solves in practise and then *0 in competition  so I just get them at the wrong time*



I think Erik is forgetting something, like, perhaps, the WR?


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## CAT13 (Nov 21, 2008)

I get one every 28374823 solves  Not very often.

And Dene, why do you keep on switching your avatar?


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## d4m4s74 (Nov 21, 2008)

today I had the first pll skip in days
I do often have oll skips


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## fanwuq (Nov 21, 2008)

CAT13 said:


> I get one every 28374823 solves  Not very often.
> 
> And Dene, why do you keep on switching your avatar?



That's an exaggeration. I think I get one about 1/72. 

Dene had the same avatar for over 7 months, LukeMayn also had the same for a long time, then started to switch it a lot. Perhaps it's a New Zealand thing?


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## CAT13 (Nov 21, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> CAT13 said:
> 
> 
> > I get one every 28374823 solves  Not very often.
> ...



Maybe a little exaggeration


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## Unknown.soul (Nov 21, 2008)

I rarely get (O/P)LL skips in computer-generated scrambles, more often with hand scrambles.


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## ImNOTnoob (Nov 21, 2008)

I have gotten plenty of PLL skips, but for me its a 1/200 chance..
So far, i have 1 OLL skip and counting...

And NOT a single LL skip!!!!!


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## *LukeMayn* (Nov 21, 2008)

^^ I'm the same >.< not one LL skip and I've almost been cubing for 10 months now >.>

EDIT: I take that back I got an LL skip on 4x4x4 with OLL and PLL parity


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## MTGjumper (Nov 21, 2008)

I had three PLL skips in three solves yesterday. Not like that would ever happen in competition.

And for the record, 3 LL skips, and 10 months of speedcubing. And only one was timed.


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## DAE_JA_VOO (Nov 21, 2008)

I hardly ever get any skips. If i get 2 PLL skips a month it's a lot


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## cookingfat (Nov 21, 2008)

I hardly get any either. I got 2 last night though, lol.


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## MistArts (Nov 21, 2008)

*LukeMayn* said:


> ^^ I'm the same >.< not one LL skip and I've almost been cubing for 10 months now >.>
> 
> EDIT: I take that back I got an LL skip on 4x4x4 with OLL and PLL parity



I haven't gotten a LL skip for 11 months  but I got one on 4x4 with OP parity...

Also, I get about 5 PLL skips every H-perm...


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## fanwuq (Nov 21, 2008)

MistArts said:


> *LukeMayn* said:
> 
> 
> > ^^ I'm the same >.< not one LL skip and I've almost been cubing for 10 months now >.>
> ...



I've gotten LL skip twice with double parity on 4x4. I haven't even solved it 100 times yet!


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## tikva (Nov 23, 2008)

fanwuq said:


> I've gotten LL skip twice with double parity on 4x4. I haven't even solved it 100 times yet!



If you don't just blindly apply the parities, chances of LL skip on a 4x4 are greater than the same thing on a 3x3. And if you know 3 or 4 parity algorithms, they are even greater.


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## KConny (Nov 23, 2008)

I had three OLL skips in 13 solves yesterday. Altough some were forced.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Nov 23, 2008)

You guys are all lame. I've never had an LL skip.


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## nitrocan (Nov 23, 2008)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> You guys are all lame. I've never had an LL skip.



Neither did I.

Lets say you need to solve approximately 15000 cubes to get a LL skip (hopefully)

I've been cubing for about 6 months = 180 days. That means I need to have solved 15000/180 = 83.333 cubes a day. I don't think I've solved that many yet


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## Swordsman Kirby (Nov 23, 2008)

nitrocan said:


> Swordsman Kirby said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are all lame. I've never had an LL skip.
> ...



I've been cubing for about three years ~= 1100 days.

15000/1100 = 13.6 cubes a day. I'm pretty sure I've done more.


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## Lofty (Nov 23, 2008)

I must be getting all the skips you guys don't get 
I do big averages of over 100 and in there I always get a couple PLL skips like 2 or 3 and every once in awhile a OLL skip. 
My last comp average i got 2 OLL skips and a PLL skip! out of 5 solves lol. One skip was forced. Plus my pb of 16.90 at nats which was an OLL skip. 
It may have something to do with heavy edge control and COLL tho  I have been cubing less then 2 years and have had many many LL skips. like 5-10 none of them timed... again attributed to the heavy edge control. cause if you get your edges oriented you can sometimes force corners too.


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## d4m4s74 (Nov 23, 2008)

I NEVER had a pll skip in my life, I'm already happy if I can skip the second look for my oll


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## MistArts (Nov 23, 2008)

tikva said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > I've gotten LL skip twice with double parity on 4x4. I haven't even solved it 100 times yet!
> ...



I don't quite understand... Explain please?


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## tikva (Nov 23, 2008)

MistArts said:


> tikva said:
> 
> 
> > fanwuq said:
> ...



There are 3 well known parity algorithms (at least to me ):
"OLL Parity" - flips one edge
"PLL Parity" - exchanges UF and UB edges
"Double Parity" - exchanges UF and UB, also flipping the edge that was at UF

It's like forcing an OLL skip (if I understood the concept of forcing). If your corners are already solved after OLL, there's a good chance you can solve the edges too only with parities, which also increases the overall chances of whole LL skip.

Back to 3x3.

I had 3 LL skips in last 4 months, all unforced. 

Chances for LL skip should be 1 / 15 552.
Chances for forced LL skip should be 1 / 3 888 (4 times greater).


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## edavies (Nov 23, 2008)

joey said:


> Cross skips have stuff to do with the scramble



So do 4 move x-crosses. I got a 4 move 3x-cross followed by a 4 move 2x-cross in a physics lesson the other day. My OH hand scrambling technique must be a little flawed. (I swear they weren't 2-gen!)


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## Gomorrite (Apr 2, 2010)

I just did 3 PLL skips in a row! Chances are 1/373248 I think.

Did anyone accomplish this? ^^


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## Kirjava (Apr 2, 2010)

I get a last layer skip every 8 or so solves.


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## Kxg (Apr 2, 2010)

Gomorrite said:


> I just did 3 PLL skips in a row! Chances are 1/373248 I think.
> 
> Did anyone accomplish this? ^^



You've also bumped 1,5 years old topic, unfortunately, quite a few people have also "accomplished" this.


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## bluecloe45 (Apr 2, 2010)

i only get them on one hand. THats why im not terrible


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 15, 2013)

Gomorrite said:


> I just did 3 PLL skips in a row! Chances are 1/373248 I think.
> 
> Did anyone accomplish this? ^^



I know this is way old bump but... I just got 4 PLL skips in a row...


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## JackJ (Sep 15, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> I know this is way old bump but... I just got 4 PLL skips in a row...



Dang! Can that really be a 1/26,873856 odds?


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## kunparekh18 (Sep 15, 2013)

I sometimes force PLL skip by applying COLL and a few OLLCPs I know here and there so that way I've had 3 skips in a row.

As for LL skips, I've had them just twice, once when the F2L was crappy and once when I was doing untimed solves.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 15, 2013)

JackJ said:


> Dang! Can that really be a 1/26,873856 odds?



The unfortunate thing is I was cubing under bad lighting conditions so no new PB Ao5.


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## ben1996123 (Sep 15, 2013)

therece a video somewaer of someone getting 5 pll skips in a row


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## Nader Cube (Sep 15, 2013)

I rarely get PLL skips, at least once a month or even two months i get a PLL skip.


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## Noahaha (Sep 15, 2013)

You can never PLL skip too much.


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## Owen (Sep 15, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> therece a video somewaer of someone getting 5 pll skips in a row



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vILSc4PMW9Y


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## slinky773 (Sep 15, 2013)

Owen said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vILSc4PMW9Y



That's crazy. I've only gotten 2 PLL skips on timed solves I think.


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## cityzach (Sep 15, 2013)

I usually get 1-2 PLL skips every 50 solves.


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## elrog (Sep 15, 2013)

I don't get PLL skips too often while speedsolving, but when I am just solving for fun solving pieces in random orders, I seem to get things like it all the time. I often just space out and stare at the cube for a few minutes. When I remember that I was in the middle of solving it and decide to finish it, I end up solving the last 6-9 pieces in about 15 moves without while focusing on just a couple pieces. I know it sounds crazy, but could your subconscious actually solve the cube?

I've had 3 Last Slot + LL skips that way btw.


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## Robert-Y (Sep 15, 2013)

I think a lot of people are saying things like "Wow I just got 2 PLL skips in a row what are the chances? (1/72)^2= 1/5184". But you have to consider that there are many cubers in the world, practising at home, doing many solves. The calculation I did for the two PLL skips was based on two chosen solves out of the millions (?) of solves which have been done before. I think it's definitely more than likely that someone in the world must have gotten at least 2 or 3 or so PLL skips in a row for example.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?32698-Great-luck-you-ve-had-in-cubing

Here are some more cases of getting lucky solves. I even mention that I once had 2 PLL skips in a row on megaminx. And you may argue that the chances are (1/720)^2 = 1/518400. But again I've done many megaminx solves before, and so have many other minxers around the world. It just so happens that it was me who received two PLL skips in a row I guess.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough


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## Rubiks560 (Sep 15, 2013)

Pretty sure I've had 3-4 PLL skips in a row before.


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## kcl (Sep 15, 2013)

I've had 4. Unfortunately all the solves were done with really cold hands so the times were barely even sub 15.


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## Renslay (Sep 15, 2013)

Owen said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vILSc4PMW9Y



April 1st? Really? Doesn't make it a bit suspicious?


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## kcl (Sep 15, 2013)

Renslay said:


> April 1st? Really? Doesn't make it a bit suspicious?



Well there's enough pausing for it to be real.. But the solving is just plain robotic..


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## Rubiksfreak (Sep 16, 2013)

I get them often, 1 everyday atleast.


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## Lchu613 (Sep 16, 2013)

There is no such thing as too many PLL skips.


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## TheNextFeliks (Sep 16, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> There is no such thing as too many PLL skips.



Amen. 

But on the topic, I haven't been having many pll skips recently. Except on 2x2 lol.


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## Ollie (Sep 16, 2013)

I got 2 PLL skips from 72 solves. This is far too often.


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## rj (Sep 16, 2013)

No such thing as too many PLL skips. I get runs of 3, then no more for a while.


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 16, 2013)

Should have a running count/competition... see who will have the longest streak of no PLL skips.


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## iFaiLLL (Sep 18, 2013)

HAHAH when I was just starting I always used the same style to scramble the cube. I could get the same scramble over and over again. Its strange but yes - i couldnt learn algorithms that fast but i could apply the same scramble over and over again with a few variations ahahahha

but then, as I came faster i started scrambling it a little bit more random.

As for the skips, I get somes, I remember like one week ago, I got 3 skips out of 5 solves or something


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## SenileGenXer (Sep 19, 2013)

I get up to two last layer skips per day. Don't always get a LL skip every day but I see more of them than I think I should. I've had a t least three days with 2 LL skips in them.

I'm doing full edge control so that makes OLL skips more common and on some level LL skips to.


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## kcl (Sep 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Should have a running count/competition... see who will have the longest streak of no PLL skips.



Me. I went an entire week of vacation, cubing hours on end per day. The only skip I got was the first solve I did and it was crappy. The rest of that week, hundreds later, not one more PLL skip.


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## Antonie faz fan (Sep 19, 2013)

Last year in the summer I had 36 PLL skips in one day I although I did 200 solves that day


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## YddEd (Sep 19, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Should have a running count/competition... see who will have the longest streak of no PLL skips.


I don't get PLL skips


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## ottozing (Sep 19, 2013)

YddEd said:


> I don't get PLL skips



The last step of roux (4c) could be considered a "PLL" step


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## Renslay (Sep 19, 2013)

Once I got 3 CMLL skip on a single day.



ottozing said:


> The last step of roux (4c) could be considered a "PLL" step



Then I've got PLL skip really often.


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## kunparekh18 (Sep 19, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Me. I went an entire week of vacation, cubing hours on end per day. The only skip I got was the first solve I did and it was crappy. The rest of that week, hundreds later, not one more PLL skip.



why donut u use coll


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## YddEd (Sep 19, 2013)

ottozing said:


> The last step of roux (4c) could be considered a "PLL" step


Oh... Well since it's considered a 'PLL' skip I guess I get loads of them...


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## kunparekh18 (Sep 19, 2013)

YddEd said:


> *Oh... Well since it's considered a 'PLL' *skip I guess I get loads of them...



It's not just "considered" PLL skip, it IS PLL.


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## Kirjava (Sep 19, 2013)

PLL is already a thing.

"4C skip" is less ambiguous.


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 19, 2013)

Antonie faz fan said:


> Last year in the summer I had 36 PLL skips in one day I although I did 200 solves that day



I call BS. Anyone fancy running the statistics on that? I would guess you are in winning the lottery territory.


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## ben1996123 (Sep 19, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> I call BS. Anyone fancy running the statistics on that? I would guess you are in winning the lottery territory.



0.0000000000000000000000000089%


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 19, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> 0.0000000000000000000000000089%



Thanks Ben. I guess I was wrong. You are much more likely to win the lottery than get 36/200 PLL skips.


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## ben1996123 (Sep 19, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> Thanks Ben. I guess I was wrong. You are much more likely to win the lottery than get 36/200 PLL skips.



yeah, its about as likely as winning the lottery 4 times in a row


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 19, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> yeah, its about as likely as winning the lottery 4 times in a row



That actually happened to me last summer.


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## kcl (Sep 19, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> why donut u use coll



Too lazy to learn it lol


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## kunparekh18 (Sep 19, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Too lazy to learn it lol



tis actually very useful fer OH, if you like OH you should learnem. At least some basic cases for 2h


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## Robert-Y (Sep 19, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> 0.0000000000000000000000000089%



Yep this is what I got too 

If you ask for the chances of getting *at least* 36 PLL skips, then the chances are roughly 0.0000000000000000000000000095%

If you ask for the chances of getting at least 36 EPLL skips, then the chances are roughly 0.00095%. Obviously still highly unlikely


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## Username (Sep 19, 2013)

Antonie faz fan said:


> Last year in the summer I had 36 PLL skips in one day I although I did 200 solves that day



How many of them were real?


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## rj (Sep 19, 2013)

YddEd said:


> I don't get PLL skips



4b skips, then.

EDIT: But you're permuting the last layer! It's just in the middle!


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## CheesecakeCuber (Sep 19, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> It's not just "considered" PLL skip, it IS PLL.



No it's not. Explain the dots case of Roux. How is that strictly LL? And H bar 4c case?

Yes, they could be considered the PLL skip, because its the last step, but 4c is a completely different concept.


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## Antonie faz fan (Sep 19, 2013)

Username said:


> How many of them were real?



Ehhh al of them


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## ben1996123 (Sep 19, 2013)

CheesecakeCuber said:


> No it's not. Explain the dots case of Roux. How is that strictly LL? And H bar 4c case?
> 
> Yes, they could be considered the PLL skip, because its the last step, but 4c is a completely different concept.



in roo the last layer is the M slice



Antonie faz fan said:


> Ehhh al of them



your lying


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## Antonie faz fan (Sep 19, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> in roo the last layer is the M slice
> 
> 
> 
> your lying


The change as some people said is very small but its not 0 % flatt so believe what you want


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## Username (Sep 19, 2013)

Antonie faz fan said:


> The change as some people said is very small but its not 0 % flatt so believe what you want



It pretty much is 0 flat


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## Kirjava (Sep 19, 2013)

oh lol he's never even going to say he was joking


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 19, 2013)

I've never actually kept track before so I just did it to see how long it would take for me to get a PLL skip. I got one on solve #81. I'm going to try keeping track now to see what's my longest streak.


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## kinch2002 (Sep 19, 2013)

I'm agonizing at the number people who are saying. 'I got x PLL skips...but I did OLLCP/COLL'. The second part of your phrase contradicts the first part.


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## parsa (Sep 19, 2013)

i get pll skip everyday.
but most of the time i skip the pll.


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## ben1996123 (Sep 19, 2013)

parsa said:


> i get pll skip everyday.
> but most of the time i skip the pll.



yeah if you get a pll skip then you usually skip the pll


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## KongShou (Sep 19, 2013)

Antonie faz fan said:


> The change as some people said is very small but its not 0 % flatt so believe what you want



Did u hand scramble by any chance?


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 19, 2013)

KongShou said:


> Did u hand scramble by any chance?



They are imaginary solves so sure, why not?


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