# Quest For Sub 10 Hawaiian Kociemba | New Directions



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 6, 2020)

Yup. Probably a bad idea, but I’m doing anyway. Will be using COLL L5EP variant for now.



Spoiler: Week 1



Goal: Full L5EP, sub 16





Spoiler: Week 2



Goal: Full L5EP, sub 15





Spoiler: Week 9



I forgot to update lol
Goal: Sub 13





Spoiler: Week 10



Averaging 12.5
Goal: Sub 12, full HKOLL





Spoiler: Week 14



Learning HKOLL, almost halfway, need to work on HKF2L
Goal: Sub 10 by mid July





Spoiler: Week 27



Almost sub 10


----------



## brododragon (Mar 6, 2020)

All of this because an April fool's joke.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 6, 2020)

Day 1: Averaging mid 17s, compared to 13.5 with CFOP, 6/16 L5EP


----------



## brododragon (Mar 7, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Day 1: Averaging mind 17s, compared to 13.5 with CFOP, 6/16 L5EP


Those mind 17s


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 7, 2020)

Day 2: 8/16 L5EP, averaging mid to high 15s!!!


----------



## ProStar (Mar 7, 2020)

Where do you get your L5EP algs?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 7, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Where do you get your L5EP algs?


This, this, and yours


----------



## ProStar (Mar 7, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> This, this, and yours



Score!


----------



## ProStar (Mar 7, 2020)

Why do you need HKOLL? All edges are already oriented, so shouldn't you just have to do OCLL?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Why do you need HKOLL? All edges are already oriented, so shouldn't you just have to do OCLL?


This


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 8, 2020)

I came up with a variant:
3/4 cross with missing price in front
Rotationless F2L cuz M slice while placing an oriented LL edge or cross piece in DF
OLL
HKPLL

I will call it Hawaiian Kociemba X, or HKX for short

I will probably use this eventually, unless I learn full HKOLL. The EO at the beginning doesn’t provide much of an advantage


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 16, 2020)

Update: I got busy, so I wasn’t able to do much of this. School is canceled now because of Coronavirus, and I have a lot of time, so I will be actually learning L5EP. I am averaging 14.5 to 15.5 and have been just putting in the DF edge and doing EPLL, so I feel that my times will drop a few seconds from full L5EP, and also from a lot of practice


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 26, 2020)

Update: Averaging 12.5 to 14.5, 10/16 L5EP

I feel that the Hawaiian Roux variant has much potential, and I will probably watch some FB and SB videos and switch.

Possible L9P solutions:

3-look L9P solution: L5EOP, COLL, EPLL
Other 3-look solution: L5EO, COLL, L5EP
Yet another one: DF, OLL, PLL
Aaannnd another one: L5EOP, OCLL, PLL
Hopefully the last one: OCLL, L5EOCP, L5EP


----------



## brododragon (Mar 26, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Update: Averaging 12.5 to 14.5, 10/16 L5EP
> 
> I feel that the Hawaiian Roux variant has much potential, and I will probably watch some FB and SB videos and switch.
> 
> ...


I would personally do L5EO, COLL, EPLL. Seems like it has the best ergonomics and recognition.

EDIT: I meant recognition not regrips.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 26, 2020)

Update: spamming solves, averaging 12 to 14, decided not to pursue Hawaiian Roux, as easy arrows are more common than easy FBs. I will be sticking with Hawaiian CFOP for now.

Fun fact: Hawaiian CFOP allows you to predict even beyond your first pair, as arrow takes quite few moves.

BTW, I don’t think I said this yet, I am x2 y color neutral (I think that’s what it’s called, I can do white or yellow arrow, and have the missing cross piece be any side color)


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 27, 2020)

Update: Averaging same as yesterday, 16/16 L5EP algs, need to improve recognition and recollection to use in a speedsolve.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Apr 10, 2020)

Update: Due to injuries, I wasn’t able to practice much, but I’m back now, and am averaging 13.5 I got a really lucky 10 single. It is my third 10 with Hawaiian Kociemba, and it could have been much better if I had better recognition.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Apr 21, 2020)

PB with Hawaiian Kociemba!!! 9.797


----------



## brododragon (Apr 21, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> PB with Hawaiian Kociemba!!! 9.797


First sub-10?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Apr 21, 2020)

brododragon said:


> First sub-10?


With Hawaiian Kociemba; I have previously gotten better with CFOP. BTW, I am averaging low 13 to high 12. Getting frequent 11s, mainly 12s and 13s, occasional 14s. Rarely 15s, but some random 18s lol. I don’t know what L9P I use, I just spam TPS


----------



## This cuber (Apr 21, 2020)

THis old meme...


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Apr 21, 2020)

This cuber said:


> THis old meme...


THis cuber...


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Apr 22, 2020)

Another sub 10: 9.83
Edit: And another: 9.997


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Apr 24, 2020)

12.934 AO100


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Apr 26, 2020)

New PB with Hawaiian Kociemba: 9.597


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Apr 29, 2020)

I should stop waiting for @ProStar to get a new computer to run a program to gen HKPLL, and do it myself. I will start tomorrow, and make up a plan as I go along. I’ve never genned algs before, how do you do it lol


----------



## ProStar (Apr 29, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> I should stop waiting for @ProStar to get a new computer to run a program to gen HKPLL, and do it myself. I will start tomorrow, and make up a plan as I go along. I’ve never genned algs before, how do you do it lol



Good question, I never figured that out either


----------



## Username: Username: (Apr 29, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> I should stop waiting for @ProStar to get a new computer to run a program to gen HKPLL, and do it myself. I will start tomorrow, and make up a plan as I go along. I’ve never genned algs before, how do you do it lol



use Cube Explorer, draw the case you want solve in the cube, but that's just an overview tutorial, you should definitely watch a youtube video on this.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 1, 2020)

@wir3sandfir3s do you still have your algs?


----------



## Username: Username: (May 1, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> @wir3sandfir3s do you still have your algs?



I think he is already offline like 2 years ago.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 1, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> I think he is already offline like 2 years ago.


I know, worth a shot though


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 2, 2020)

I am going to start learning HKOLL, as it seems easier than HKPLL and I already know over half of it


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 2, 2020)

9.031!!! Sub 9 single soon hopefully


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 4, 2020)

@ProStar how did you make your L5EP sheet? If I make HKOLL algs, I need somewhere to put them


----------



## ProStar (May 4, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> @ProStar how did you make your L5EP sheet? If I make HKOLL algs, I need somewhere to put them



I copied Kian's CMLL sheet


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 5, 2020)

Idea for 1 look 2 alg HKOLLCP: Use an EO alg that preserves corners, and than go straight into COLL


----------



## brododragon (May 5, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Idea for 1 look 2 alg HKOLLCP: Use an EO alg that preserves corners, and than go straight into COLL


Pure EO algs probably aren't that good.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 5, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Pure EO algs probably aren't that good.


Just has to be MU gen, it can ruin EP


----------



## Etotheipi (May 5, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Pure EO algs probably aren't that good.





Cubingcubecuber said:


> Just has to be MU gen, it can ruin EP


And with MU it'd be quite good most likely.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 7, 2020)

Idea: Lets just shorten Hawaiian Kociemba to HK. It is to long of a name (CFOP, Roux, ZZ, Petrus; never more than 2 syllables) If anyone is against this, tell me, but if no-one objects, I'll make it official(on the wiki)


----------



## PetrusQuber (May 7, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Idea: Lets just shorten Hawaiian Kociemba to HK. It is to long of a name (CFOP, Roux, ZZ, Petrus; never more than 2 syllables) If anyone is against this, tell me, but if no-one objects, I'll make it official(on the wiki)


What about Hawaiian K? Plus it stands out


----------



## brododragon (May 7, 2020)

HK is fine.


----------



## ProStar (May 7, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Idea: Lets just shorten Hawaiian Kociemba to HK. It is to long of a name (CFOP, Roux, ZZ, Petrus; never more than 2 syllables) If anyone is against this, tell me, but if no-one objects, I'll make it official(on the wiki)



I think the real name should still be Hawaiian Kociemba, but HK should be a much more common nickname, similar to how the wiki page shows WV but it's actual name is Winter Variation.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 8, 2020)

Due to a finger injury from a door, I can't really cube, so I've been working on my website. So far I've made an L5EP doc based on @ProStar 's one. I made good names for the cases though. Here it is


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 8, 2020)

And my COLL doc is here!


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 17, 2020)

I’m averaging 12.5, I aim to be sub 12 within 2 weeks

@ProStar how did you generate images, I need some for HKOLL


----------



## brododragon (May 17, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> I’m averaging 12.5, I aim to be sub 12 within 2 weeks
> 
> @ProStar how did you generate images, I need some for HKOLL


I saw a generator a bit ago on the forums, so I'll try to find it.


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (May 17, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> I’m averaging 12.5, I aim to be sub 12 within 2 weeks
> 
> @ProStar how did you generate images, I need some for HKOLL


He used cube.crider.co.uk


----------



## ProStar (May 22, 2020)

I haven't tested every case, but I think that all 4x4 PLL cases can be used for HKPLL if you replace parity with U2 M' U2 M. 4x4 PLL cases: https://jperm.net/algs/4x4/pll


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 25, 2020)

Update: I haven’t been cubing much lately, but the good news is that @ProStar and I are working on an HKOLL doc. It is over halfway done, and the algs are pretty good too. I have been working a lot on it because I just started it 2 days ago, and it will probably be done in a few days. As for my solves, still averaging around ~12.5


----------



## ProStar (May 25, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Update: I haven’t been cubing much lately, but the good news is that @ProStar and I are working on an *HKPLL* doc. It is over halfway done, and the algs are pretty good too. I have been working a lot on it because I just started it 2 days ago, and it will probably be done in a few days. As for my solves, still averaging around ~12.5



Dangit, how'd you know about that! You aren't supposed to know! I mean, uh, it was.... a typo! Yeah! I'm not working on an HKPLL doc, he was just referencing the HKOLL doc we were working on! Mhm. It was just a typo.


----------



## Username: Username: (May 25, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Idea for 1 look 2 alg HKOLLCP: Use an EO alg that preserves corners, and than go straight into COLL



How many algs is that? might be a useful extension.


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (May 25, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> How many algs is that? might be a useful extension.


EO is intuitive algs, COLL is 42 algs.


----------



## ProStar (May 25, 2020)

I think the 1L2A HKOLLCP could definitely work, just do Roux EO then COLL. Also, you can just remember what AUF is needed to reset the corners to where they were, so it could be completely pauseless. Also, for L5EP:

Pa(DF edge in front) - (R U R' U') M' U2 M (U R U' R')
Pb(DF edge on right) - (R U R' U) M' U2 M (U R U' R')

Since it's just sexy(insert)sexy', they can be pretty fast


----------



## Username: Username: (May 26, 2020)

ProStar said:


> I think the 1L2A HKOLLCP could definitely work, just do Roux EO then COLL. Also, you can just remember what AUF is needed to reset the corners to where they were, so it could be completely pauseless. Also, for L5EP:
> 
> Pa(DF edge in front) - (R U R' U') M' U2 M (U R U' R')
> Pb(DF edge on right) - (R U R' U) M' U2 M (U R U' R')
> ...



I just came up with that idea yesterday
Arrow without EO, F2L, Roux EO, COLL, L5EP


----------



## ProStar (May 26, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> I just came up with that idea yesterday
> Arrow without EO, F2L, Roux EO, COLL, L5EP



What did you come up with? What you're describing is a variant of HK that's older than a day. I was saying I liked CCC's idea for 1l2a HKOLLCP


----------



## Username: Username: (May 26, 2020)

ProStar said:


> What did you come up with? What you're describing is a variant of HK that's older than a day. I was saying I liked CCC's idea for 1l2a HKOLLCP


oof misread


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (May 30, 2020)

Yes!!!
Sub 10 single at during round 2 at Cubing at Home!!


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 4, 2020)

gonna put this up here so people see it: does anyone want to write up something for me to paste into the history section of my website?


Update: I’ve been busy learning JavaScript, so I haven’t done 3x3 much. I’m now almost sub 20 on squan, and I’m sub 1:55 on 5x5. My HKOLL doc will be done by tomorrow, and my website should be done within a month. I will start learning HKOLL algs over the weekend, and will start HKPLLs next week. I will start trying to consistently predict the corner of the second pair, and will try to work on more efficient pair solutions.


----------



## ProStar (Jun 4, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> gonna put this up here so people see it: does anyone want to write up something for me to paste into the history section of my website?



History of what? HK? And you have a website?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 4, 2020)

ProStar said:


> History of what? HK? And you have a website?


Oops I forgot to say lol. History of Hawaiian Kociemba


----------



## Sub1Hour (Jun 4, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Oops I forgot to say lol. History of Hawaiian Kociemba


Just put a picture of the Humuhumunukunukuapua'a with no text


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 4, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Just put a picture of the Humuhumunukunukuapua'a with no text


Great idea


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 5, 2020)

HKOLL DONE!!!!!!


----------



## ProStar (Jun 5, 2020)

*About*

Hawaiian Kociemba (HK) is a 3x3 method. It was created as part of a joke by TheCubicle, but was later developed into a legitimate method by Brayden Mossey and Alex Maass. The steps are as follows

1. EOArrow - This is similar to the ZZ step of EOLine, except with a special twist. Instead of orienting all 12 edges on the cube, you only orient the 7 edges in the first two layers(excluding the DF edge). During/after the orientation of F2L edges, you solve the DL, DB, and DR edges, hence the "Arrow".
2. HKF2L - Solve the First Two Layers, minus the DF edge. This can be solved the same as CFOP F2L, except the open spot at DF allows for creative M-Slice pairing. Because of EOArrow, this can be done rotationless.
3. HKOLL - Use one of 114 algorithms to orient the 5 edges and 4 corners remaining on the cube
4. HKPLL - Use one of 149 algorithms to permute the final 5 edges and 4 corners, thus solving the cube

There are a few variants of this method, one of which includes orienting all edges during EOArrow to allow for COLL and L5EP to be used instead of HKOLL and HKPLL

*History*

Hawaiian Kociemba was originally created as an elaborate April Fool's joke by TheCubicle.com. In a video titled, "Michael Humuhumunukunukuapua'a's International Debut", a man was shown in Hawaii solving a 3x3 consistently under 5 seconds using a new method called Hawaiian Kociemba. Brayden Mossey, known online on the SpeedSolving forums as wir3sandfir3s, looked at reconstructions of some of the solves in the video and attempted to decipher his method. What he created was the current Hawaiian Kociemba method, except that originally the missing edge in the EOArrow was DR.

For a while after, the method was left untouched and ignored for just under four years, until "Cubingcubecuber" posted a thread on the SpeedSolving forums titled, "Quest For Sub 8 Hawaiian Kociemba". In the thread Cubingcubecuber stated he had switched to HK, and was charting his progress there. Cubingcubecuber was the first known user of the method(because the video introducing the method was actually a joke) and was using the COLL+L5EP variant of HK(orient all edges during EOArrow and use COLL and L5EP for the last 5 edges and last 4 corners). Just over two months after Cubingcubecuber posted his thread, a SpeedSolving forums user known as, "Username: Username:" posted his thread, "Quest to become sub-10 Hawaiian Kociemba (ditching CFOP, HK is better & we have pineapples)", stating he was also switching to HK. However, less than a day later Username: Username said he was quitting HK and switching back to his main method of CFOP, which left Cubingcubecuber as the only active user of the method.

Currently Cubingcubecuber is averaging around 12.5 seconds with HK, making him the current fastest user of the method. HK is still developing though, and has the potential to be a top method, having the benefits of Roux's lower movecount(not as good as Roux though) without having the downsides of bad lookahead. In the future, Hawaiian Kociemba could be regarded as one of the best methods for 3x3, but currently it's a little niche that a few cubers have fun with. Until recently it was a humorous relic not taken seriously, but now it's very slowly being proven as a legitimate method. You never know what the future holds.

*Resources*
HKOLL Algorithms - Created by Cubingcubecuber
COLL Algorithms - Documented by Cubingcubecuber
Alternate COLL Algorithms - Extra algorithms for all cases
L5EP Algorithms - Created by ProStar and Cubingcubecuber
Proposal - First proposal as a real method by wir3sandfir3s



How's that? You can use it if you want, but there may be a few grammatical errors; it's late here and I'm too tired to proofread it, but I wanted to write something up real quick.


----------



## Username: Username: (Jun 5, 2020)

ProStar said:


> *About*
> 
> Hawaiian Kociemba (HK) is a 3x3 method. It was created as part of a joke by TheCubicle, but was later developed into a legitimate method by Brayden Mossey and Alex Maass. The steps are as follows
> 
> ...



I'm still actively using HK you know!


----------



## ProStar (Jun 5, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> I'm still actively using HK you know!



You said you had switched back to CFOP but was still messing around with HK for fun a bunch; that's not actively using it


----------



## Username: Username: (Jun 5, 2020)

ProStar said:


> You said you had switched back to CFOP but was still messing around with HK for fun a bunch; that's not actively using it



You might not know that I'm still aiming to be fast in HK, and also in CFOP.


----------



## OreKehStrah (Jun 5, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> HKOLL DONE!!!!!!


Nice. I might learn them for fun at some point. I’d recommend making a separate document that contains only HK exclusive cases so it requires less filtering and is easier on the eyes.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 5, 2020)

OreKehStrah said:


> Nice. I might learn them for fun at some point. I’d recommend making a separate document that contains only HK exclusive cases so it requires less filtering and is easier on the eyes.


Some OLL cases have better algs for HKOLL, such as the awkward shapes and more that I haven't discovered yet.


----------



## OreKehStrah (Jun 6, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Some OLL cases have better algs for HKOLL, such as the awkward shapes and more that I haven't discovered yet.


In the alg sheet, is the position that the DF edge is in in each case indicate the edge that will go to the DF place after the alg?


----------



## ProStar (Jun 6, 2020)

OreKehStrah said:


> In the alg sheet, is the position that the DF edge is in in each case indicate the edge that will go to the DF place after the alg?



Yeah, it indicates what setup will also solve the DF edge. But you can substitute the DF edge for any LL edge


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 6, 2020)

OreKehStrah said:


> In the alg sheet, is the position that the DF edge is in in each case indicate the edge that will go to the DF place after the alg?


Yes. I have it there so at an advanced level you could predict if it will be solved


----------



## OreKehStrah (Jun 6, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Yes. I have it there so at an advanced level you could predict if it will be solved


Nice. I figured that would be the case.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 6, 2020)

Not related to HK, but I just got my YuHu V2 M, and my first solve was a PB by over 20 seconds. It was 1:35.23 IDK why it made me faster, because my old main was a Galaxy V2 LM lol


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 8, 2020)

My website is here!! Still have to do fundamentals, some variants, HKPLL, and L5EOP, but other than that it is complete

hkmethod.com


----------



## ProStar (Jun 8, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> My website is here!! Still have to do fundamentals, some variants, HKPLL, and L5EOP, but other than that it is complete
> 
> hkmethod.com



I like it! Couple notes/questions

1.) What's HKCLL?
2.) HK+ is just Yau except you don't solve 4th cross edge
3.) A couple times there is bad spacing(specifically on the About page)
4.) Saying "thanks to ProStar for writing this page" may look better down in the corner or something


----------



## brododragon (Jun 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> This is similar to the ZZ step of EOLine, except with a special twist. Instead of orienting all 12 edges on the cube, you only orient the 7 edges in the first two layers(excluding the DF edge). During/after the orientation of F2L edges, you solve the DL, DB, and DR edges, hence the "Arrow".


If you solve EO first, then you have to orient all edges because trying to flip an arrow edge to insert will mess up other edges.


----------



## ProStar (Jun 8, 2020)

brododragon said:


> If you solve EO first, then you have to orient all edges because trying to flip an arrow edge to insert will mess up other edges.



EO solves all F2L edges, including the arrow edges


----------



## brododragon (Jun 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> EO solves all F2L edges, including the arrow edges


Yes, but you said you only did EO for 7.


----------



## xyzzy (Jun 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Hawaiian Kociemba was originally created as an elaborate April Fool's joke by TheCubicle.com. In a video titled, "Michael Humuhumunukunukuapua'a's International Debut", a man was shown in Hawaii solving a 3x3 consistently under 5 seconds using a new method called Hawaiian Kociemba. Brayden Mossey, known online on the SpeedSolving forums as wir3sandfir3s, looked at reconstructions of some of the solves in the video and attempted to decipher his method. What he created was the current Hawaiian Kociemba method, except that originally the missing edge in the EOArrow was DR.


Just to add on a bit: the method itself wasn't named by Cubicle or Michael, and both it and its name are completely a creation of our forum denizens.

(For the record, I think "Hawaiian Kociemba" is a stupid name, and have thought that for the past four years. The biggest problem is that the name reflects neither the origins of the method nor the actual meat of it—the solves by "Michael" (actually done by Rowe) were completely set up scrambles that were fundamentally based on CFOP, and the method has little to do with the Kociemba algorithm per se. And if you were going to name a thing after someone (someone who even visits these forums occasionally!), it seems like a _pretty good idea_ to at least ask them if they mind having their name attached to it, and I don't think that was ever done.)


----------



## ProStar (Jun 8, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Yes, but you said you only did EO for 7.



Which would be DF. An L5E edge gets oriented in the process, but it doesn't matter which one


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> I like it! Couple notes/questions
> 
> 1.) What's HKCLL?
> 2.) HK+ is just Yau except you don't solve 4th cross edge
> ...


1: HKCLL is just CMLL algs that preserve DF

2: I know HK+ is basically Yau, which is why I embedded the wiki page, which I edited to say that

3: spacing is bad on mobile, should I make it auto-align on both sides?

4: will do


----------



## brododragon (Jun 9, 2020)

ProStar said:


> Which would be DF. An L5E edge gets oriented in the process, but it doesn't matter which one


Ohhh I thought LL edges were oriented.


xyzzy said:


> it seems like a _pretty good idea_ to at least ask them if they mind having their name attached to it, and I don't think that was ever done.)


Good thing it's not their real name.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 9, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Good thing it's not goo


‘confused reaction’


----------



## Owen Morrison (Jun 9, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> ‘confused reaction’


@pjk


----------



## Spacey10 (Jun 9, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> @pjk


I was staring at this post for 5 minutes until I remembered...
LOL


----------



## Owen Morrison (Jun 9, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> I was staring at this post for 5 minutes until I remembered...
> LOL


I am just hoping that someday he will add the laughing emoji and the confused reaction.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 10, 2020)

Update: I have started learning HKOLL, I know most of the 3 EO cases. I have realized that most of my pair solutions are sucky when edges aren’t oriented or are in DF, so I will watch Roux videos. I may end up maining the MS 3x3, and I plan to have my website fully completed with HKPLL and all within a month


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Jun 10, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Update: I have started learning HKOLL, I know most of the 3 EO cases. I have realized that most of my pair solutions are sucky when edges aren’t oriented or are in DF, so I will watch Roux videos. I may end up maining the MS 3x3, and I plan to have my website fully completed with HKPLL and all within a month


But edges should always be oriented in HK


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 10, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> But edges should always be oriented in HK


Depends on the variant. You can do either arrow while orienting F2L edges, arrow with full EO, or just arrow. I do just arrow, as it allows for further inspection


----------



## brododragon (Jun 11, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> ‘confused reaction’


I edited it


----------



## ProStar (Jun 11, 2020)

Btw HKCLL already exists under a different name and algs would almost be exactly the same as CLL. Check the CxLL page on the wiki for details


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 11, 2020)

I just discovered this in the original proposal


Spoiler: CP+EO Variation



This will probably be THE MOST complex variation but can be VERY fast and significantly improve recognition. You will want to plan it in inspection. During the explanation, pretend the E slice is divided in half - left and right.
1. Solve a 2x2x3 block (preferably on the left) while leaving 2 edges disoriented. Be sure to track these edges.
2. Now it gets pretty tricky, and reliant on look ahead. Pre mute the bottom corner on the right, they do not need to be oriented. Pair the front one with one of the disoriented edges.
3. Figure out which adjacent corners needs to be swapped. Put them on the left, while making sure the other disoriented edge is at UR or UL. If corners need to swapped diagonally, do this step but use a conjugate to move the corners adjacent to each other.
4. Do either F' U F (if the edge is at UR) or F' U' F (if the edge is at UL) to reduce the cube to an entirely 2-gen state. Yes, all R U moves the entire way (if you want, I wouldn't recommend it as some 2-gem EHKPLLs are pretty long). Solve the other 2 pairs on the left (cube is in F2L-1 state) and use 1/7 Algs to orient corners whilst keeping permutation, then 1/7 EHKPLLs.
This sounds like a lot, but it can be executed pretty quickly. The reason for doing all this is when you finish F2L-1, you will only have to orient corners (only use 2 gen algorithms) and the corners will be solved. You will then be left with a EHKPLL, which there are only 7 of and are pretty easy to recognize and execute. This makes the last layer only use 14 algorithms, beating ZZ-R, DRASTICALLY improving recognition, and takes the cake for fewest number of algs for 2LLL.


IDK where he got 7 L5EP from, as there are 16 of them, but I just thought that this was interesting. Doesn't seem feasible to track and plan though. Also, I have learned all of the 3 EO cases, need to driil the algs to work on recollection, execution, and recognition


----------



## brododragon (Jun 11, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> I just discovered this in the original proposal
> 
> 
> Spoiler: CP+EO Variation
> ...


Who proposed it?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 11, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Who proposed it?


Here it is, I believe it was Brayden Mossey who invented it


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 16, 2020)

I am averaging 12.2, should be sub 12 within a week, all I have done is spam solves and work on planning first pair in inspection and lookahead


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 17, 2020)

First video on my YouTube channel!!!! Arrow tutorial

It’s kinda bad but quality will only go up


----------



## brododragon (Jun 18, 2020)

Sir, you have failed to shameless plug to absolutely and fully committee assult and battery on the subscribe button.


----------



## N's-cvt (Jun 26, 2020)

So what's been happening this week with the kociemba cubecuber?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jun 26, 2020)

My website has undergone a major update, I have changed the look, added pages, and made more algs. I still have to start doing HKPLL though, and if anyone wants to help, then tell me.

I haven't been doing a lot of 3x3, I've gotten sub 19 at sqaun tho, sub 1:35 on megaminx, sub 1:45 at 5x5, relearnt pyra intuitive L5E which I had learned for nats last year but forgotten because I hadn't touched a pyra since nats, I modded my Gan 354 M, I binged YouTube a lot, and I worked on my website.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jul 11, 2020)

I'm still alive, I just haven't done much 3x3. I should really start genning HKPLL and learn HKOLL, but I have gotten faster at megaminx, 2x2, and 6x6. I hope to start drilling 3x3, and get sub 10 by mid August


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jul 16, 2020)

First in my HKOLL series

don’t forget to like and subscribe


----------



## PetrusQuber (Jul 16, 2020)

The yellow and green scheme in the thumbnail is no accident


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jul 19, 2020)

PB single 7.063

B2 U' F2 L2 D' L2 D2 L2 F2 U2 R2 F R B F2 D B F U R U2

yellow is great, and I got a PLL skip

also got 10.741 PB AO5

(9.630)
10.997
10.814
10.414
(12.814)
Does it count if the 12 was yesterday and the rest were today? It doesn’t really matter though because afterwards, I got another 12 so the average stayed the same

also PB 11.265 AO12 and PB AO100


----------



## PetrusQuber (Jul 19, 2020)

Yeah I would count it


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jul 19, 2020)

Update: I’m globally sub 12 on 3x3, I average 18 on squan, I’m sub 3 on 2x2, I touched a pyraminx, I’m sub 6 on skewb, sub 1:40 on mega, sub 1:50 on 5x5, sub 55 on 4x4, sub 23 OH, have ordered 2 CLOONCCS and a MGC 6x6, said “I should learn BLD” 16 times, started learning more CLLs that aren’t COLL, and made a cubing practice schedule (as in tells me to practice x minutes of y on z day)(really helps if you are an all-rounder)


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jul 20, 2020)

SpeedCuberSUB30 said:


> Pls can u teach me this method
> And also what is HKOLL and HKPLL?
> What is the purpose of HKOLL and HKPLL??


I'm posting this here because I think it will be helpful to many people trying to learn HK

My website, hkmethod.com might be a useful resource to you. Hawaiian Kociemba has many variants, so the steps differ.



Spoiler: If you are good with CFOP



1: Arrow: 3 Cross pieces, missing one in DF
2: HKF2L: Solve the pairs to get to what is called a "DougLi Block". It is not F2L because the DF piece is not solved. It is rotationless because M-moves change edge's orientation
3: HKOLL
4: HKPLL





Spoiler: If you are good with Roux



1: FB: 1x2x3 on bottom left
2: SBDB: 1x2x3 on bottom right while using wide moves and other tricks when needed to solve the DB edge simultaneously
3: HKOLL
4: HKPLL





Spoiler: If you are good with ZZ



1: EOArrow: Solve the arrow and EO simultaneously, like EO cross but without DF
2: EOHKF2L: ZZF2L but with tricks like M' U2 M
3: COLL or OCLLDF or OCLL
4: EPLL or PLL or HKPLL





Spoiler: If you are good with Petrus



1: 2x2x2 in DBL
2: 2x2x3 expansion
3: Pairs in front
4: HKOLL
5: HKPLL

EO can be done before pairs in front, allowing you to do COLL/EPLL, OCLLDF/PLL, or OCLL/HKPLL



There are many, many more variants, including tons of other ways of solving the HKLL with fewer algorithms. In Hawaiian CFOP, you can purposely place DF during HKF2L to make LL recognition quicker. In Hawaiian Roux you can put in DF after SB to sacrifice movecount for lookahead. The original HK method was a ZZ-Top variant, so pEOArrow was done, only orienting the HKF2L and Arrow edges. I suggest you dig around my website looking for the best variant for you.

HKOLL is an algorithm subset that orients all of the top layer in addition to the DF edge. It is similar to OLL in CFOP, but it orients an extra edge. So all OLLs are HKOLLs because OLL is a subset of HKOLL, though some HKOLL algs are more efficient because they disregard the permutation of the DF edge. There are 114 HKOLL cases including 57 OLL.

HKPLL is an algorithm subset that permutes the top layer in addition to the DF edge. It is similar to PLL in CFOP, but it permutes an extra edge. So all PLLs are HKOLLs because PLL is a subset of HKOLL. There are 149 HKOLL cases including 21 PLL.


----------



## Metallic Silver (Jul 21, 2020)

Jesus Christ!! Someone is actually using Hawaiian Koceimba!! I used to use the method's techniques when I was using Lazy CFOP during the time, but holy hell, full out hawaiian koceimba.


----------



## ProStar (Jul 21, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> 1: 2x2x2 in DBL
> 2: 2x2x3 expansion
> 3: Pairs in front
> 4: HKOLL
> ...



If you solve EO before L2P(Pairs) then it's just Petrus-W


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jul 21, 2020)

ProStar said:


> If you solve EO before L2P(Pairs) then it's just Petrus-W


Petrus–W is technically an HK variant


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Jul 21, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Petrus–W is technically an HK variant


It's closer to Petrus though


----------



## ProStar (Jul 21, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Petrus–W is technically an HK variant



WCC literally took Petrus and made a variant, it's not a HK variant


----------



## CyoobietheCuber (Jul 21, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Petrus–W is technically an HK variant


More like the HK variant is a variant/same thing as Petrus-W which is a variant of Petrus.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jul 21, 2020)

ProStar said:


> WCC literally took Petrus and made a variant, it's not a HK variant


It is a Petrus variant and an HK variant. Just like the original variant of HK is an HK variant and a ZZ variant. Methods can be variants of multiple methods, which leads us to the question: what defines a method? What makes something ZZ, Petrus, CFOP, Roux, etc. I don’t really have an answer for this, as it is very abstract, but it would be interesting to hear other’s thoughts on it.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Jul 22, 2020)

I found squan HKPLL, it should help with finding 3x3 HKPLL cases


----------



## ProStar (Jul 22, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> It is a Petrus variant and an HK variant. Just like the original variant of HK is an HK variant and a ZZ variant. Methods can be variants of multiple methods, which leads us to the question: what defines a method? What makes something ZZ, Petrus, CFOP, Roux, etc. I don’t really have an answer for this, as it is very abstract, but it would be interesting to hear other’s thoughts on it.



That's like saying the WR is with Petrus. Technically he made a 2x2x3 while solving EO then solved F2L RU gen then did the LL. But what he meant to do was an XXCross then solve F2L then solve LL


----------



## brododragon (Jul 30, 2020)

Hello


----------



## PetrusQuber (Jul 30, 2020)

Hi there


----------



## Spacey10 (Aug 1, 2020)

Can we have an update now?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Aug 3, 2020)

Averaging mid 11 on 3x3, working a bit on my website, still haven’t started genning HKPLL, my MGC 6x6 came, I average sub 4 after 5 solves, I have started doing CLONCC and am sub 17, I didn’t do much practice, but I plan on drilling 3x3 and getting sub 10 by the end of the month


----------



## semiprime799 (Aug 9, 2020)

This is probably dumb but, How's lookahead with HK? Also does a full text guide exist for HK?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Aug 9, 2020)

semiprime799 said:


> This is probably dumb but, How's lookahead with HK? Also does a full text guide exist for HK?


Lookahead is pretty good, about the same as CFOP, you just need to know if an F2L edge is in DF. I don’t know if this counts as a full text guide but I have this


Cubingcubecuber said:


> Hawaiian Kociemba has many variants, so the steps differ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## semiprime799 (Aug 9, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Lookahead is pretty good, about the same as CFOP, you just need to know if an F2L edge is in DF. I don’t know if this counts as a full text guide but I have this


Just for fun I think I'm going to try to learn HK after I start averaging decent sub-20


----------



## semiprime799 (Aug 10, 2020)

semiprime799 said:


> Just for fun I think I'm going to try to learn HK after I start averaging decent sub-20


What variant of HK do you use? what algs etc.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Aug 10, 2020)

semiprime799 said:


> What variant of HK do you use? what algs etc.


I use Hawaiian CFOP, so I don't orient edges. For HKLL, I use a combination of a lot of algs from random stuff, including COLL, ELL, EPLL, HKCLL, HKOLL, L5EO, L5EOLS, L5EOP, L5EP, OCLL, OCLLDF, OLL, PLL, WV, and 1-look-2-alg HKOLLCP, HKOLLCPDF, HKOLLDF, HKPLL, and L5E.
The algsets I know fully are COLL, EPLL, L5EO, L5EOP, L5EP, OCLL, OLL, PLL, while the others I only know parts of. Also the way I solve, I make a lot of X-arrows, and If the last cross piece is easy to insert at any part of the solve(Arrow, HKF2L, HKLL), then I will probably do it depending on how lookahead is.

Also, heres an update: Have gotten an 11.1 ao100, should be sub 11 by next week, I have used my RS3M2020 a lot and now it is glossy. I should also practice more 5x5, because I suck at 5x5. I average 52 on 4x4, but on 5x5 I average 1:55. I also want to get sub 16 on squan this week


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Aug 20, 2020)

Update: Comfortably averaging mid 10, got my first sub 10 ao5 and then 3 more, gotten a 10.0 ao12, and reorganized my website to add other events in the future. I also switched to the rDF Nb Perm


----------



## Spacey10 (Aug 20, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Update: Comfortably averaging mid 10, got my first sub 10 ao5 and then 3 more, gotten a 10.0 ao12, and reorganized my website to add other events in the future. I also switched to the rDF Nb Perm


I read this as the dnf N perm,
I don't know what to say


----------



## BenChristman1 (Aug 20, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> I read this as the dnf N perm,
> I don't know what to say


Legend says that anybody who uses that alg will DNF every solve that they use it on.


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Sep 9, 2020)

Bump: School has started, I have less time to work on YouTube and my website, I can cube plenty still, I am comfortably averaging sub 10.5, sub 15 on clock, and I did some SKOOOOB, I still average mid 5, I am easily sub 2.9 on 2x2, and I learned some megaminx algs


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Sep 24, 2020)

Bump: I haven’t practiced much so I average around 11.2 now, but I have gotten better at pyra, I learned some more L4E, I average low 5


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Oct 5, 2020)

Almost sub 10, CubeHead’s 2-gen practice is very helpful, I am averaging 15 on squan and will learn CSP soon, I will learn blind finally soon too(I already know how to do it, I’ve never tried doing it though), I average 2.5 on 2x2, and am averaging 5 on pyraminx. I will start doing big cubes more, and drill clock mega and skeewb


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Oct 12, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> Almost sub 10, CubeHead’s 2-gen practice is very helpful, I am averaging 15 on squan and will learn CSP soon, I will learn blind finally soon too(I already know how to do it, I’ve never tried doing it though), I average 2.5 on 2x2, and am averaging 5 on pyraminx. I will start doing big cubes more, and drill clock mega and skeewb


I’m too ambitious lol. I learned the Collin Burns OLLCP, and FRUF F2L, but not much else


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Oct 27, 2020)

I’m alive, I took a short break from cubing (like only 20 solves per day), but I’m back. I will probably be at least sub 10 by December.
I should do more clooncc.


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 27, 2020)

i'm probably gonna learn hkoll and hkpll after i'm done full oll. what would you recommend learning first?


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 27, 2020)

OHH MY GOD A QUINTIPLE BUMP POST
never seen anything like it
but its fine anyway cause your just updating your status


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Oct 27, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> i'm probably gonna learn hkoll and hkpll after i'm done full oll. what would you recommend learning first?


HKOLL because it’s smaller, OLL is already half of it, the algs are easy(mostly) and HKPLL doesn’t have algs yet


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 28, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> HKOLL because it’s smaller, OLL is already half of it, the algs are easy(mostly) and HKPLL doesn’t have algs yet



yea that sound good


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 28, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> HKOLL because it’s smaller, OLL is already half of it, the algs are easy(mostly) and HKPLL doesn’t have algs yet



how many users of hk are there (estimate)


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Oct 28, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> how many users of hk are there (estimate)


~1


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> ~1


well we better get sum moorrr


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 28, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> ~1



soon to be ~2 cause ima use this for oh now


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Nov 24, 2020)

I’m almost sub 10, probably will be by the end of thanksgiving break, I will update then, after I get sub 10 I plan on being method neutral with HK and CFOP, as it seems easy to do and also seems best for the long run because if it only takes 1 move to insert the a cross piece at one point in the solve, it will either be the same or worse at a later point, unless you get really lucky and it goes in by itself


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Dec 7, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> I’m almost sub 10, probably will be by the end of thanksgiving break, I will update then, after I get sub 10 I plan on being method neutral with HK and CFOP, as it seems easy to do and also seems best for the long run because if it only takes 1 move to insert the a cross piece at one point in the solve, it will either be the same or worse at a later point, unless you get really lucky and it goes in by itself


I realized that I was turning really chill in my solves, so I tried turning faster, and now I am like sub 10 half the time


----------



## ProStar (Dec 8, 2020)

HK is actually a really interesting and cool method. What variant do you use right now, and do you plan on working on/finishing HKPLL sometime soon?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Dec 8, 2020)

ProStar said:


> HK is actually a really interesting and cool method. What variant do you use right now, and do you plan on working on/finishing HKPLL sometime soon?


I do arrow with no EO, HKF2L using M moves, Insert alg I know, Insert another alg, depending on what algs I used possibly a third short alg or trigger like M’ U2 M
so my HKLL doesn’t really have a structure
As for HKPLL I have no plans, but I would like to make and learn algs eventually


----------



## Nir1213 (Dec 9, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> I realized that I was turning really chill in my solves, so I tried turning faster, and now I am like sub 10 half the time


im curious whats your average right now, like around 10.50 or something?


----------



## ProStar (Dec 9, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> I do arrow with no EO, HKF2L using M moves, Insert alg I know, Insert another alg, depending on what algs I used possibly a third short alg or trigger like M’ U2 M
> so my HKLL doesn’t really have a structure
> As for HKPLL I have no plans, but I would like to make and learn algs eventually



How much HKOLL do you currently know?


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Dec 9, 2020)

ProStar said:


> How much HKOLL do you currently know?


At one point I knew over 3/4ths, but I have forgotten the sune algs by now, and I only implement algs I can recall quickly and can execute well. I’d like to proficient with all of them one day, but without HKPLL there’s not much of an advantage


Nir1213 said:


> im curious whats your average right now, like around 10.50 or something?


10.57


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Dec 19, 2020)

I’ve been doing a lot of skewb lol. It’s surprisingly fun to just grind out solves. I am averaging low 5, will probably be sub 5 if I fix my H perms and Z perms.

Edit: Skoooooooooooooooooooooooooob


----------



## Deleted member 55877 (Dec 19, 2020)

Cubingcubecuber said:


> fix my H perms and Z perms.


For H perm I use sledge y2 hedge y2 sledge
For Z perm I use this execution and alg 



(not my video)


----------



## DNF_Cuber (Dec 19, 2020)

Alex Davison said:


> For H perm I use sledge y2 hedge y2 sledge
> For Z perm I use this execution and alg
> 
> 
> ...


For H perm I use R r' R r' y l' L l' L


----------



## Cubingcubecuber (Mar 1, 2021)

Coming up on the 1-year anniversary of this thread, I have some thoughts on HK I’d like to share. As a method, I think that it is best used as an extension to others, as a choose your own hybrid. Like in Roux, after F2B if DB is easy(or any M slice edge which can be put in DB with an M slice for different HKLL recog) one can solve it and use HK techniques for the rest of the solve. In CFOP HK is great for misoriented 3-move inserts to the front(like r U r’) and can be used quite well in conjunction with f inserts to the back. The open slot in DF also allows for more freedom while still retaining good visibility. It allows for amazing M move paring tricks as well. EO can be done well at the beginning as well as the end of the solve. It has countless variants with alg ranges from under 10 to 1LHKLL I guess.

The Future of This Thread:
I am putting my quest for speed on hiatus, I still want to average sub 10, and with more practice, I'm sure I will, but I have other plans for now. I am going to be doing a "Month of" type thing, but with HK application to other methods, e.g., Hawaiian Roux, Hawaiian CFOP, etc.

The Future of My Solves:
I plan on being more method neutral with Hawaiian CFOP and CFOP(doing cross if it is easy and gives a good F2L), maybe experimenting with EO and pEO at the beginning

The Future of My Youtube Channel:
I don't plan on making videos any time soon, maybe I'll start again in the summer

The Future of My Website:
Also on hiatus, may start again in the summer, HKPLL looks quite intimidating to gen, maybe I'll gen some smaller sets before then


----------



## brododragon (Mar 1, 2021)

happy birthday, and a merry new year


Alex Davison said:


> i have
> NHIE turned a cube owned by someone else


also random quote i have stored, enjoy


----------

