# master kilominx!



## DT546 (Feb 18, 2010)

kickflip made this awesome mod, don't have a link to the twisty puzzles forum

discuss


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## iSpinz (Feb 18, 2010)




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## 4Chan (Feb 18, 2010)

4x4 minx!

Amazing!


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## DT546 (Feb 18, 2010)

thanks iSpinz I don't know how to do that


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 18, 2010)

DT546 said:


> thanks iSpinz I don't know how to do that




[outube]FTbTaMN48M[/outube]


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## Stefan (Feb 18, 2010)

daniel0731ex said:


> DT546 said:
> 
> 
> > thanks iSpinz I don't know how to do that
> ...



No, [noparse]



[/noparse]


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## iSpinz (Feb 18, 2010)

Pochmann'd


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## riffz (Feb 19, 2010)

That is actually so cool. It looks like the inner layers turn quite nicely too.


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## DT546 (Feb 19, 2010)

i heard someone calling it a myraminx once
apparently its latin/greek for somethiing


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## irontwig (Feb 19, 2010)

Before anyone asks; no, you can't get parity, since 5-cycles are even permutations.


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## Bogyo (Feb 19, 2010)

irontwig said:


> Before anyone asks; no, you can't get parity, since 5-cycles are even permutations.



You are wrong. If you have a Gigaminx try it out.


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## qqwref (Feb 19, 2010)

You can't get orientation parity (yay!), but you can get permutation parity.


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## irontwig (Feb 19, 2010)

qqwref said:


> You can't get orientation parity (yay!), but you can get permutation parity.



Oops, forgot to tell to say that I don't consider "permutation parity" a parity error, since it still an even permutation.


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## rachmaninovian (Feb 20, 2010)

i hope to see one of these mass produced in the future...i like anything that has to do with 4x4 =P


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## JubilantJerry (Jun 11, 2010)

You can get still permutation parity, try doing R U' BR BL' U BR' R' Rr BR U' BL BR' U Rr' BR BL L U' F R' U F' L' Ll F U' R F' U Ll' BL' BR' on a gigaminx. Two pairs of wing pieces will be swapped


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## cuberkid10 (Jun 11, 2010)

What was the point of bumping this thread with an long alg that nobody will use becuase nobody has a master kilominx? And it was already stated above that there was PLL parity. Im not trolling, Im just saying.


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## ambo_o7 (Jun 11, 2010)

JubilantJerry said:


> You can get still permutation parity, try doing R U' BR BL' U BR' R' Rr BR U' BL BR' U Rr' BR BL L U' F R' U F' L' Ll F U' R F' U Ll' BL' BR' on a gigaminx. Two pairs of wing pieces will be swapped





cuberkid10 said:


> What was the point of bumping this thread with an long alg that nobody will use becuase nobody has a master kilominx? And it was already stated above that there was PLL parity. Im not trolling, Im just saying.




He said on a gigaminx.


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## z666zz666z (Oct 11, 2011)

*I want to buy one Master Kilominx*

I want to buy one Master Kilominx, but i do not know where and neither the price, hope under 80 US dollars (less than 60 euros).

If anyone could help... i have a Megaminx (3x3...) and a Gigaminx (5x5...), now i want the (4x4...) so Master Kilominx seems to rotate well enough for me...

I solve Gigaminx on near 75 minutes, i know it is a very poor time... i am not speedsolving it... i just go the long way, piece by piece and sometimes i make mistakes... 

I solve Megaminx on near 15 minutes, i know it is a very poor time... i am not speedsolving it... i just go the long way, piece by piece and sometimes i make mistakes... 

Megaminx is too short and Gigaminx is too long... and of course i want to complete my collection.

Also i have normal cubes 3x3x3, 4x4x4 and 5x5x5...

So, where can i buy one of thoose pretty Master Kilominx?

Videos i saw: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x469EUOlul0
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzA5MDM3NzMy.html​


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## qqwref (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't think these are being mass-produced, so there are only a few in the world. You will have a hard time finding one for anything even remotely near $80.


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## mf8 (Oct 15, 2011)

Mf8 present, Master Kilominx















Coming soon~


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## MostEd (Oct 15, 2011)

owah cool
its should become wca event too ;P

how much positionss doesa a stickered one have?


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## emolover (Oct 15, 2011)

I love you Mf8! Will buy as soon as it comes out.


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## IMSLOW1097 (Oct 15, 2011)

those pics are _like a boss_


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## qqwref (Oct 15, 2011)

What. o_0 Damn, awesome job mass-producing this. I'll put it on my tobuy list for sure.



MostEd said:


> how much positionss doesa a stickered one have?


(19!/2 * 3^18)(60!/2)(60!/(5!^12)) = 9.15 * 10^163


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## Kirjava (Oct 15, 2011)

That looks like more fun than a megaminx.


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## Olji (Oct 15, 2011)

Hmm...

4x4 version of Megaminx...
Oh I'm getting this!


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## Drake (Oct 15, 2011)

I suppose that the price range will be close to the gigaminx? But im 100% that it will be worth the money tough. Mf8 is releasing so many puzzles dayan to, don't know witch get :O.


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## Kirjava (Oct 16, 2011)

Waaaaait.

This means that you can do edge comms easily on a minx.


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## AustinReed (Oct 16, 2011)

Yay! A megaminx variant that won't be overkill in solve time! I'll try to get one once I have the money.


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## qqwref (Oct 16, 2011)

I guess it's about time I make a sim for this 

God, centers are going to be awful to solve.


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## emolover (Oct 16, 2011)

qqwref said:


> I guess it's about time I make a sim for this
> 
> God, centers are going to be awful to solve.


 
If you do actually make on of these, could you make it so we can also do the professor, elite, royal... etc?


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## qqwref (Oct 16, 2011)

What are those?


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## emolover (Oct 16, 2011)

qqwref said:


> What are those?


 
Professor Kilominx is the 6x6 version of the megaminx, Elite Kilominx is the 8x8 version... I think you get the pattern.


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## ianography (Oct 16, 2011)

Since nobody so far has asked, when will this puzzle be available do you think? I would love to get my grubby paws on one of those, and I think my mom would really like it, as she's been bugging me about selling my Gigaminx (a.k.a. "The Pretty One").


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## Christopher Mowla (Oct 16, 2011)

qqwref said:


> (19!/2 * 3^18)(60!/2)(60!/(5!^12)) = 9.15 * 10^163


I haven't studied the mechanics of minx's that much, but I understand most of this.​ 
What I think I understand so far is this:


\( \left( \frac{20!\text{ }3^{20}}{\left( 5\times 12 \right)\left( 3 \right)} \right)\left( 60! \right)\left( \frac{60!}{5!^{12}} \right)=\left( \frac{20!\text{ }3^{20}}{\left( 20 \right)\left( 3 \right)\left( 3 \right)} \right)\left( 60! \right)\left( \frac{60!}{5!^{12}} \right) \)
\( =\left( 19!\times 3^{18} \right)\left( 60! \right)\left( \frac{60!}{5!^{12}} \right) \)
​ *Corners*
There are 20 corners, which can have 20! permutations. Each corner can be twisted in 3 ways, so we have 3^20.
But just one corner cannot be twisted, so we divide it by three. Since this is an even minx, we can fix one corner as well (divide by 5x12, since a corner can be in 5 places in each of the 12 faces).

*Wings*
There are 60 wings (in the same orbit), which can have 60! permutations.

*Center Pieces*
There are 5 center pieces in 12 faces for a total of 60 quadrilateral pieces (in the same orbit), which can have 60! permutations. Since we are considering the center pieces to be indistinguishable, each color can be permuted 5! ways (because there are 5 center pieces per color) and there are 12 faces/12 colors, so 5!^12. We divide by that number.

I know it's possible my explanation for the above is incomplete for the part of your formula which does not include the missing factor of 1/4, but if not, what other factors need to be taken into consideration to divide by 4?

EDIT: Oh, seeing Jaap's puzzle page makes it clear that only even permutations of corners (divide by 2) and even permutations of wings (divide by 2) are possible.


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## qqwref (Oct 16, 2011)

emolover said:


> Professor Kilominx is the 6x6 version of the megaminx, Elite Kilominx is the 8x8 version... I think you get the pattern.


Oh, don't worry, I was planning to make it general from the start 

Anyway, sim is done: here


@cmowla: on minxes every corner and edge orbit has fixed (even) permutation parity, although you don't have to worry about it in centers because of the indistinguishable pieces. So all corner and edge orbits must have a /2.


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## Christopher Mowla (Oct 16, 2011)

@qqwref,
Shouldn't you have divided by 2 also for the non-fixed center orbit for the minx^4 formula? The reason I ask is because no piece type on these puzzles can be in an odd permutation, right? I mean, there's no saying that "the parity of piece type x will define the parity state on piece type y," right?

EDIT: Based on qqwref's response a few posts down, the formula for a minx of order _n_ is:​ 
[Link]
\( \left( \frac{20!\times 3^{20}}{\left( 5\times 12 \right)^{\left( n+1 \right)\bmod 2}\left( 3 \right)\left( 2 \right)} \right)\left( \frac{30!\times 2^{30}}{\left( 2 \right)\left( 2 \right)} \right)^{n\bmod 2}\left( \frac{60!}{2} \right)^{\left\lfloor \frac{n-2}{2} \right\rfloor }\left( \frac{60!}{5!^{12}} \right)^{\left\lfloor \left( \frac{n-2}{2} \right)^{2} \right\rfloor } \)

and the factor increase for superminx's is:

\( \times \left( \frac{5!^{12}}{2} \right)^{\left\lfloor \left( \frac{n-2}{2} \right)^{2} \right\rfloor }\left( \frac{5^{12}}{2} \right)^{n\bmod 2} \),
which we multiply by the formula for the regular minx's formula to get the number of superminx positions, but we also can use as the number of solved positions of the regular minx's.
​


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## EeeeeWarne (Oct 16, 2011)

Does this mean that mf8 will be making a standard kilominx as well?


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## irontwig (Oct 16, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> Waaaaait.
> 
> This means that you can do edge comms easily on a minx.


 
Time to learn megacll?


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## qqwref (Oct 17, 2011)

cmowla said:


> @qqwref,
> Shouldn't you have divided by 2 also for the non-fixed center orbit for the minx^4 formula?​



Nope. On a non-supercube, because there are always groups of centers that are indistinguishable, every one of the 60!/(5!^12) positions can be achieved.​


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## Christopher Mowla (Oct 17, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Nope. On a non-supercube, because there are always groups of centers that are indistinguishable, every one of the 60!/(5!^12) positions can be achieved.


So this means, for example, that, from a colored cube perspective, this is a 2-cycle of X-centers r U l' U' r' U l U', but is a 3-cycle on the supercube? _I'm not being sarcastic: I'm just asking a question that could help me get my perspective right_.


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## aronpm (Oct 17, 2011)

Yes I think that is what he meant


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## Vinny (Oct 17, 2011)




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## qqwref (Oct 17, 2011)

Yeah, on a normal cube we can think of that as a 2-cycle (or as a 3-cycle, or as a 4-cycle, or as a 2-2 cycle, or...) So it's achievable whether we have parity or not.


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## vcuber13 (Oct 17, 2011)

EeeeeWarne said:


> Does this mean that mf8 will be making a standard kilominx as well?


 
mefferts has one


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## yockee (Oct 17, 2011)

Olji said:


> Hmm...
> 
> 4x4 version of Megaminx...
> Oh I'm getting this!


 
There's a 6x6 version as well! It's called the elite kilominx, or something.
Oops, just saw that someone posted about it.


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## EeeeeWarne (Oct 17, 2011)

vcuber13 said:


> mefferts has [a kilominx]



They have a flowerminx (I know it is a kilominx, but a pretty flower pattern on a minx next to a megaminx, a gigaminx, a master kilominx etc. would look silly. Mefferts is also really expensive. If mf8 made a kilominx that I could buy for $10, then I would get it, it would sit well next to all the other mf8 minx's.


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## MaeLSTRoM (Oct 18, 2011)

:O
do want.
Actually, this and the starminx are looking really good. Cant wait to buy them


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