# Would you like speedcubing to become really popular?



## royzabeast (Jun 13, 2009)

Just wondering on your thoughts. I decided to post this as a combination of seeing a signature that said "Only 7,000 people in the USA can solve the Rubik's cube in under a minute" plus my dad doesn't like that I taught a couple of my friends how to solve it. He thinks its a talent I should keep to myself. So would you enjoy it if Rubik's cubing got some air time on ESPN like Speedstacking (or maybe even more than speedstacking?) sometimes gets or not?

Edit: If you would like, post some pros and cons.


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## jacob15728 (Jun 13, 2009)

Honestly I wouldn't like it. I'd rather be unique and part of a small, tight group. Plus, I don't want all the competition


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## Dene (Jun 13, 2009)

To be honest, with the recent influx of complete morons into the speedcubing community, I don't see how it would be for the best to have it as a big sport. Unless it meant that there would be better prizes. So that those who are good now will stay at the top, and would get more money for doing the same work.


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## Stefan (Jun 13, 2009)

I voted "no" because I think quantity and quality don't go together.


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## ThatGuy (Jun 13, 2009)

I want more people, but not publicity announcements. The media enjoys bastardizing a lot of stuff.


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## FaNtAsYDeAlEr (Jun 13, 2009)

If it was more popular there would be more demand for cubes so cube prices would be lower and we could get our cubes in the us easier and faster. we might see some better speed cubes idk just some thoughts. I do also like the fact that not a lot of ppl can solve one you feel like you have accomplished something by solving it.


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## jacob15728 (Jun 13, 2009)

For some reason there's like 15 kids who can solve it at my school and 4 who can do it under a minute... but I think that's an unusual sample space.


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## FaNtAsYDeAlEr (Jun 13, 2009)

after I had solved one and showed a few of my buddies and found out 4 of them could also solve it I was quite surprised.


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## JTW2007 (Jun 13, 2009)

NO! NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! I have a general rule in everything life related: the less popular and mainstream, the better. The public has a funny habit of corrupting cool things in a very short amount of time. If cubing became mainstream, I would probably stop, as there is nothing I hate more in life than being associated with what is "cool", "in", or "popular."


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## Lord Voldemort (Jun 13, 2009)

There are already enough stupid cubers.
More popularity = more stupid people. Therefore, no.
Nothing annoys me more than people who are incapable of showing any intelligence whatsoever and that aren't willing to put any effort into anything. 
I like the smaller community that we have now.


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## cmhardw (Jun 13, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> If cubing became mainstream, I would probably stop, as there is nothing I hate more in life than being associated with what is "cool", "in", or "popular."



You should consider getting another hobby then. You're obviously not that into cubing in the first place.

Chris


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## fanwuq (Jun 13, 2009)

FaNtAsYDeAlEr said:


> *If it was more popular there would be more demand for cubes so cube prices would be lower* and we could get our cubes in the us easier and faster. we might see some better speed cubes idk just some thoughts. I do also like the fact that not a lot of ppl can solve one you feel like you have accomplished something by solving it.



Fail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Supply-and-demand.svg



JTW2007 said:


> NO! NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! I have a general rule in everything life related: the less popular and mainstream, the better. The public has a funny habit of corrupting cool things in a very short amount of time. If cubing became mainstream, I would probably stop, as there is nothing I hate more in life than being associated with what is "cool", "in", or "popular."



Cool people use MGLS.
Fridrich is popular.
Rebels use Roux.  
I wonder what method you use...
I agree with Chris; do whatever you like, not do whatever to disagree with others.

A while ago, I would be confident that most cubists would want cubing to become more popular. Recently, I'm not so sure anymore. 
Sure my rank might be lowered, but it should be more fun with more people. Although the average quality of cubists would be lowered, the total number of high-quality cubists would be higher. In most sports, there are always the professional athletes and the amateur fans; it could be like that for cubing. I say keep it open and not be so elitist. I can say the environment right now is not as friendly as it was a year ago. Have fun. Give the "stupid" people a chance; they can enjoy cubing without becoming "professional."


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## IamWEB (Jun 13, 2009)

I like seeing it expand, seeing our community grow, but it should stay 'underground', or at least out of the media all of the time. Records could be in the local news, and news about competitions too, but not some official event-thing broadcast on a schedule.
It would be fun, but the negatives from it outweigh the positives.


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## Kian (Jun 13, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> I voted "no" because I think quantity and quality don't go together.



Well, it's just a debate between quantity of quality or quality of quantity.


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## JTW2007 (Jun 13, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Cool people use MGLS.
> Fridrich is popular.
> Rebels use Roux.
> I wonder what method you use...
> .



I use Fridrich, but I'm currently learning Roux and MGLS also. 

@ Chris: Interesting and very well put, but I disagree. If cubing could become more popular and not change (other than in numbers of cubers), then I'm all for it. It's just that I don't think cubing is compatible with most people. Either the people will change, or the cubing will, and if it's the cubing, then it's no longer the thing I enjoy. I love cubing now, but if it were diluted by the masses, it would be completely different.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jun 13, 2009)

I really don't like elitist mentalities, I'm above that... 

But seriously, I don't mind speedcubing getting more publicity because the way I see it, it allows for more competition and my ranking would mean that much more. It feels a lot better to say you're top 10 out of 100,000 people rather than out of 1,000. 

I really don't think only a "select few" have the ability to solve the cube and it therefore shouldn't be kept a secret. 

And if your liking of something depends on how other people perceive it, I would say you really don't like it for what it is to begin with. 

bottom line: the more the merrier


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## Roux-er (Jun 13, 2009)

I love the small community. If it grew large, than I really wouldn't have a unusual hobby. All other hobbies I tried grew large, and I quit them. (speedstacking)


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## cmhardw (Jun 13, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> If cubing could become more popular and not change (other than in numbers of cubers), then I'm all for it.
> 
> ...
> 
> I love cubing now, but if it were diluted by the masses, it would be completely different.



How does the number of people engaging in our hobby in any way change the hobby itself? I agree with you that it changes the culture, and the competitions, etc.

The hobby itself?

Chris


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## JBCM627 (Jun 13, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> I voted "no" because I think quantity and quality don't go together.


More pixels makes a better picture.



Lord Voldemort said:


> There are already enough stupid cubers.
> More popularity = more stupid people.


More people means more smart people as well, unless you are implying cubing attracts only stupid people.

Isn't the WCA mission to have more competitions with more people and more fun?


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## SparkZer00 (Jun 13, 2009)

I would love speedcubing being more popular, and I see several pros, which I shall state in non-sentence form because I'm lazy 

more people= lots of people to buy cubes=companies seeing the potential for capitalism=sponsorships for fast cubers, which can possibly mean promotional appearances at major competitions 

more people= more potential variety of people to meet through cubing

That's just me though...


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## ISuckAtCubing (Jun 13, 2009)

sure why not?


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## JTW2007 (Jun 13, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> JTW2007 said:
> 
> 
> > If cubing could become more popular and not change (other than in numbers of cubers), then I'm all for it.
> ...



Once the culture is changed, that's good enough for me. Yeah, maybe the popularity doesn't affect algorithms and methods and times, but the culture of the speedcubing community is a very large part of it for me. I have next to zero friends outside of speedcubing, and the more mainstream people there are, the harder it is for people like me to find people they really get along with (i.e. most of the current speedcubing community). There is a reason that speedcubing attracts the kind of people it does. I'm not sure what it is, but I think that if it were diluted with numbers, it would just dissolve.


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## Ethan Rosen (Jun 13, 2009)

royzabeast said:


> "Only 7,000 people in the USA can solve the Rubik's cube in under a minute"



I'd be willing to bet that the actual number is at least double that.


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## Gparker (Jun 13, 2009)

I voted no also. Think, if the media talked about this, it would probably spread aorund like swine flu news. Probably over half of the people would find these forums and ask the same question " hw do i gt faster?>>?!!".


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## SparkZer00 (Jun 13, 2009)

Gparker said:


> I voted no also. Think, if the media talked about this, it would probably spread aorund like swine flu news. Probably over half of the people would find these forums and ask the same question " hw do i gt faster?>>?!!".



maybe there more moderators would solve this, ensuring that those posts get deleted quickly.

I doubt though that noobs would watch tv, and then come here asking how to solve a rubik's cube

Don't forget everyone that competition footage on local news technically is the media talking about cubing


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## daeyoungyoon (Jun 13, 2009)

I would like it to become a little more popular but only up to a certain point.


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## Hadley4000 (Jun 13, 2009)

I think there would be some benefits to cubing becoming bigger, but there are a few things I'm torn about.

On one hand, bigger competitions can be fun. Nationals was great because of the size. But, there is something to be said about the small community.


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## ErikJ (Jun 13, 2009)

if it was a huge sport and there was a lot of money at stake every comp it wouldn't be fun.


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## eastamazonantidote (Jun 13, 2009)

I don't want the community to become much larger. This year I taught 2 people how to cube at my school. One became pretty serious, so we have meaningful conversations about algorithms and general cubing. The other one is only interested in patterns and always tries to show off how he can solve a cube in less than 2 minutes. If he ever learns anything "new" (keep in mind I taught him most of what he knows, he just doesn't listen), he comes to me the next day and demonstrates how I could shave down my times.

I feel that a larger community would include many more people like the second guy, whereas with a smaller community, only the dedicated really get into it.

So I vote no.


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## royzabeast (Jun 13, 2009)

SparkZer00 said:


> Gparker said:
> 
> 
> > I voted no also. Think, if the media talked about this, it would probably spread aorund like swine flu news. Probably over half of the people would find these forums and ask the same question " hw do i gt faster?>>?!!".
> ...



Well, I know that I caused a small pandemic in my homeroom a year ago. I brought it to school when I first learned. I wa in the homeroom with the 'Science Academy' and they all believed themselves to be geniuses. Within the next month, a dozen of them tried to learn. 2 of them did successfully. 1 of them still do it, even buying a 4x4 and 5x5 before I ever did.



Ethan Rosen said:


> royzabeast said:
> 
> 
> > "Only 7,000 people in the USA can solve the Rubik's cube in under a minute"
> ...



I thought it would be more closer to a million then 10,000...


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## FaNtAsYDeAlEr (Jun 13, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> FaNtAsYDeAlEr said:
> 
> 
> > *If it was more popular there would be more demand for cubes so cube prices would be lower* and we could get our cubes in the us easier and faster. we might see some better speed cubes idk just some thoughts. I do also like the fact that not a lot of ppl can solve one you feel like you have accomplished something by solving it.
> ...



I'm sorry I dont see how its a fail... "The price P of a product is determined by a balance between production at each price (supply S) and the desires of those with purchasing power at each price (demand D). 2, along with a consequent increase in price and quantity Q sold of the product."... your saying we are at the perfect point between supply, demand, and quantity to get the best price then?


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## vvtopkar (Jun 13, 2009)

I personally would not like it if speedcubing became too popular. There has already been a large influx of algo memorizing drones that pretend they understand the cube, but while their times might be good, they don't _*actually*_ understand what in the world they are doing.


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## SlaughterMelon (Jun 13, 2009)

Yes and no.

Yes, because there are NO mainstream sports for "smart" people or people who aren't "sporty" or "athletic."
Yes, because if it was a mainstream sport, we'd get more cubes, more types of cubes, and better cubing technology.
Yes, because then we (as a society) would put more of an emphasis on good math education, rather than getting laid and being "cool" in school.
Yes, because I think it would be freaking hilarious to see a "super speed cube" commercial on the TV.
Yes, because it would lift the "super smart asian kid" stereotype a little bit.
Yes, because it would create a more diverse community.

No, because if cubing was better known, we'd get more people complaining about how we're not in a sport because we're not running around in circles.
No, because it would turn cubing into what pro gaming (Halo and Guitar Hero, I'm looking at you) has become (in the United States, at least).
No, because we don't need more celebrities who think they can do anything because they're famous.
No, because it's kinda cool to be involved in something underground.
No, because then it would be less impressive to be able to solve a 3x3 or even a 2x2 cube.
No, because then it would be tainted with capitalism.

TL;DR-
Yes=6
No=6


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## Sin-H (Jun 13, 2009)

SlaughterMelon said:


> Yes, because there are NO mainstream sports for "smart" people or people who aren't "sporty" or "athletic."


Chess? Poker?



SlaughterMelon said:


> Yes, because then we (as a society) would put more of an emphasis on good math education, rather than getting laid and being "cool" in school.


are you sure? do we learn how to play the guitar just because Guitar Hero is becoming popular? do we learn more things about war tactics because "killer-games" are becoming popular? and, to be honest, does Math alone help you to become a good speedcuber? there's much more than that.

this is a highly interesting thread. I personally would have thought that most of us would like it to become extremely popular, and even I would have wanted that, but after cogitating a bit, I actually saw all the bad aspects about it.
Still I wouldn't "mind" our passion to become a sport which is more mainstream.


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## DcF1337 (Jun 13, 2009)

vvtopkar said:


> I personally would not like it if speedcubing became too popular. There has already been a large influx of algo memorizing drones that pretend they understand the cube, but while their times might be good, they don't _*actually*_ understand what in the world they are doing.



So, how exactly do you understand what you're doing when you're cubing?


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## (X) (Jun 13, 2009)

I bring my cube to school every single day. So needless to say some people get interested and want to learn how to solve a cube. They then go home and watch the Dan Brown tutorial, and they become able of solving the cube in 2 minutes. After a week no one cares to bring their own cube anymore. Sometimes people ask me if they can borrow my cube, but they don't cube at all at home, and have partially lost the interest.

Ok, these people would never consider going to a competition, they just wanted to be able to solve the cube, and that's it. We all know that cubing is in growth, but I think it will only grow to a certain point because competitive cubing is not for everyone.

BTW I voted no


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## shoot1510 (Jun 13, 2009)

I chose no because speedcubing is about speed. Speedcubing is only like you solve the 3x3x3 as fast as you can. But not many people are interested in becoming fast as that 6 year old kid who can solve a rubik cube in 34 sec or famous speedcubers like Erik Akkersdijk. Many people just want to show off that they can solve the rubik cube.


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## Rubixcubematt (Jun 13, 2009)

IMO, it is easy to say that you don't want cubing to grow if you live in America or Europe, but here in Australia/New Zealand, or any other country that it isn't big, we would say that we would love cubing to grow a bit. this would mean that we could have a lot more competitions around, unlike in America where there is basically a competition every weekend.


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## soccerking813 (Jun 13, 2009)

I would like for speedcubing to become a little more recognized than it is right now, but not so that people start having their favorite cubers who they support and bet money on. I like for people to think of me as a little different, an individual. If speedcubing became a huge "sport" then people would all be saying I started when it became popular, when I didn't.

Didn't vote for anything, because my choice wasn't an option.


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## kickinwing2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

I would say we need more than we have now but not to a point were stupid contributions are overwhelmingly huge. I would like to see more people at competitions and more people doing things that aren't 3x3x3 at competitions.


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## Lord Voldemort (Jun 13, 2009)

JBCM627 said:


> Lord Voldemort said:
> 
> 
> > There are already enough stupid cubers.
> ...



No, but I am implying that really popular things attract "popular" people, who are in general stupid. I'm not saying every single popular is stupid, just most of them.



FaNtAsYDeAlEr said:


> I'm sorry I dont see how its a fail... "The price P of a product is determined by a balance between production at each price (supply S) and the desires of those with purchasing power at each price (demand D). 2, along with a consequent increase in price and quantity Q sold of the product."... your saying we are at the perfect point between supply, demand, and quantity to get the best price then?



If more people cube, more people want cubes, and thus the price of cubes go up.


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## soccerking813 (Jun 13, 2009)

Lord Voldemort said:


> JBCM627 said:
> 
> 
> > Lord Voldemort said:
> ...



Actually, it would probably be that the things that "popular" people are attracted to become popular. Or the people who are attracted to some things become "popular" because they do it.


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## teller (Jun 13, 2009)

Regarding the various economic posts: Cubes are not a scarce commodity with a constant supply. If there were a cubing explosion, I assure you that bunches of manufacturers would get into the game and you'd find an explosion of higher quality cubes at lower prices. In fact, this is already happening since 2003. Crappy Rubik's cube: $15. Type C: $6.

After the Poker boom, a phenomenon that is exactly what you all are afraid of here, high quality poker chips started showing up at every Target and Walmart and they were darn cheeeeeeeap! And they came in those nice stainless steel machine-gun cases.


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## qqwref (Jun 13, 2009)

I want many more people who understand cube theory, have a sense of humor, and are willing to try many different events and puzzles, but I don't want to have to deal with a huge number of incomprehensible newbies. Can I just have the first group? Please?


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## cpt.Justice (Jun 13, 2009)

qqwref said:


> I want many more people who understand cube theory, have a sense of humor, and are willing to try many different events and puzzles, but I don't want to have to deal with a huge number of incomprehensible newbies. Can I just have the first group? Please?



It's funny how these forums seem to be divided in two, just like you describe


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## 4Chan (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm glad many people agree with the fact that many new cubers aren't the brightest or the most pleasant people.

People who are unfamiliar with forum etiquette and say/do stupid things.

I totallie agree with people who want to keep cubing a "niche" so to speak.


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## anythingtwisty (Jun 13, 2009)

I would love cubing to become more popular, while staying the open, friendly way it is right now. Unfortunately, if it became too popular, I could easily see more cheating and cube-stealing.


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## TobiasDaneels (Jun 13, 2009)

Unbelievable what i'm reading here.

I started cubing in 2005 so I can say I've been in cubing longer then most of you here. At first it was all very small. Very few people competed and there were no too many competitions.
I've seen the community grow a lot over the past years and always supported that. It makes me mad that people who started cubing within the last year are so intolerant towards a growing community. If we back when they started were as selfish, they wouldn't have been welcomed as friendly as they were.

It's like wanting to join a community, and when you're in, claiming that it shouldn't grow anymore. Just stupid.

I know Ron V.B. (and others to) for instence has always tried to make our sport as popular as it could. With this in his mind he invested a lot of his own time working for the community. Of which everyone in our community profits. 

BTW: more people->more competitions->more opportunitys to enjoy our hobby and passion.
What's wrong with that?


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## DavidWoner (Jun 13, 2009)

TobiasDaneels said:


> BTW: more people->more competitions->more opportunitys to enjoy our hobby and passion.
> What's wrong with that?



You forgot more people->more new friends!

Also, I want prize money >_>


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## calekewbs (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm kinda split on this topic, I would like to see this happen, just because I know how much fun it is, and i know that other people would enjoy it. But I have doubts that it would because it annoys people so much when i do. lol Sure they think it's cool at first, but after a couple solves, it loses it's magic so to speak. I also agree that this would lead companies to maybe sponsor good cubers and lead to a whole new level of speed cubing, but like i said I just don't see that happening.


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## badmephisto (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm very surprised about this thread. I actually thought it was a stupid question, voted yes, and then noticed that I was actually in the minority!

Of course I want it to become more popular! It would be so awesome if I had more friends to cube with, more people to talk to cubing about, etc.

And @ many people that posted here: it is clear that your main reason for cubing is not that it is fun. Get a real hobby


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## shelley (Jun 13, 2009)

I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, the more people get into cubing, the more likely we can get money and sponsorship for holding tournaments and such, which are always fun. 

On the other hand, I've also noticed how the culture of our community has changed as it's gotten bigger. Back in the day cubers were people who were willing to seek out information themselves and try new things. Now we get newbies asking the same questions over and over even as a wealth of information is right in front of their faces, and are afraid to do something as simple as lube their cube if nobody's there to hold their hand through the process. I kind of miss the old days.


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## xXdaveXsuperstarXx (Jun 13, 2009)

Here's is what I believe it comes down too. When things become popular there is more or less of a learning curve. New people come, new methods, new cubes, new idiots, new geniuses. It may get harder to win competitions. But if you do win your just that much better. It does not necessarily mean though that Cubing will become this huge sport that everybody will love and go to competitions for, it will just mean that it will grow bigger. True, solving the cube might not be as impressive, but that will mean that we are getting better. You will be surprised how many people can solve a cube and just don't talk about it. If the cubing community was going to grow, it would be gradually, hence it would not affect the overall community. You people are acting like 10,000 people are going to come in and corrupt and spoil the hobby. It just doesn't work like that  .


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## Zaxef (Jun 13, 2009)

It'd be nice to actually meet cubers once in a while, I don't know anyone in my town that can even solve a 3x3..
No one at my old school was into cubing that I knew of, never saw anyone doing one or anything.

So yea, it'd be cool if it got a bit more popular so I could actually cube WITH people, and not alone all the time.. and plus, I'd be faster than more people if more people start cubing hehe

_Edit:



Of course I want it to become more popular! It would be so awesome if I had more friends to cube with, more people to talk to cubing about, etc.

And @ many people that posted here: it is clear that your main reason for cubing is not that it is fun. Get a real hobby

Click to expand...


Exactly._


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## Nukoca (Jun 13, 2009)

badmephisto said:


> I'm very surprised about this thread. I actually thought it was a stupid question, voted yes, and then noticed that I was actually in the minority!



Same here. But it's an optical illusion, you see. While it seems that the majority of the speedcubing population would not like speedcubing to become popular, it's just the other way around, because the first two *added up* are actually the group that would like for it to be popular.
So, at the results right now: 
I would like/not mind if it were popular: 47
I wouldn't like it if it were popular: 42


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## badmephisto (Jun 13, 2009)

shelley said:


> I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, the more people get into cubing, the more likely we can get money and sponsorship for holding tournaments and such, which are always fun.
> 
> On the other hand, I've also noticed how the culture of our community has changed as it's gotten bigger. Back in the day cubers were people who were willing to seek out information themselves and try new things. Now we get newbies asking the same questions over and over even as a wealth of information is right in front of their faces, and are afraid to do something as simple as lube their cube if nobody's there to hold their hand through the process. I kind of miss the old days.



That's partly true. There is more immaturity around these days... I think its because we now have a larger portion of younger cubers, since it is so easy to get into speedcubing now, with all the help available all over the place. (I guess I'll take a bit of blame for that?) Back in the old days, you actually had to search for much longer, and make do with very limited information and help. Most speedcubing pages were only diagrams and algorithms, with little to no explanation of what they meant, or what they were for... so the younger audience would be more inclined to just give up. 

i don't really know what the solution is... the kids just have to grow up.. but of course by the time they do, there will be more kids around... and I don't want to insult anyone, I was a very retarded kid myself-- When I look at old posts I made on other forums 7 years ago, I shake my head in disbelief. But anyway... do you guys wanna erase all YouTube help channels, and tear down all overly helpful sites?  go back lol


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## JTW2007 (Jun 13, 2009)

TobiasDaneels said:


> Unbelievable what i'm reading here.
> 
> I started cubing in 2005 so I can say I've been in cubing longer then most of you here. At first it was all very small. Very few people competed and there were no too many competitions.
> I've seen the community grow a lot over the past years and always supported that. It makes me mad that people who started cubing within the last year are so intolerant towards a growing community. If we back when they started were as selfish, they wouldn't have been welcomed as friendly as they were.
> ...



While I completely understand where you're coming from, I don't entirely agree. If speedcubing became popular, the popular people would start for the sole reason of seeming popular. I would like to see people get into speedcubing because they enjoy it, not because they think it will make them seem popular or intelligent. It's like when people learn just to impress people, but find it difficult because their hearts aren't in it. A speedcuber is someone who enjoys speedcubing, not someone who speedcubes in order to seem intelligent or cool.


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## xXdaveXsuperstarXx (Jun 13, 2009)

> There is more immaturity around these days... I think its because we now have a larger portion of younger cubers, since it is so easy to get into speedcubing now, with all the help available all over the place. (I guess I'll take a bit of blame for that?) Back in the old days, you actually had to search for much longer, and make do with very limited information and help. Most speedcubing pages were only diagrams and algorithms, with little to no explanation of what they meant, or what they were for... so the younger audience would be more inclined to just give up.
> 
> i don't really know what the solution is... the kids just have to grow up.. but of course by the time they do, there will be more kids around... and I don't want to insult anyone, I was a very retarded kid myself-- When I look at old posts I made on other forums 7 years ago, I shake my head in disbelief. But anyway... do you guys wanna erase all YouTube help channels, and tear down all overly helpful sites? go back lol



That was a very intriguing post, I'm a very young cuber, in case you didn't know, solving the cube and getting help is what keeps us going. You pointed that out, but with a different perspective. The help everybody posts is not bad at all, they're just lending a helping hand . The reason I started cubing is because I saw all these fast people (at the time 30 seconds was fast), and now I've seen how much better I've gotten with all the help and algorithms around, if cubing was still like you mentioned (hard to find information and help), I don't think it would've grown as much. Everybody has to admit that it's nice to have videos and help when you're solving the cube.


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## fanwuq (Jun 13, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> While I completely understand where you're coming from, I don't entirely agree. If speedcubing became popular, the popular people would start for the sole reason of seeming popular. I would like to see people get into speedcubing because they enjoy it, not because they think it will make them seem popular or intelligent. It's like when people learn just to impress people, but find it difficult because their hearts aren't in it. A speedcuber is someone who enjoys speedcubing, not someone who speedcubes in order to seem intelligent or cool.



Completely understand? I doubt it; you did not experience what it was like to be cubing in 2005. People do not behave the way you think. What is your definition of popular? It is "regarded with favor, approval, or affection by people in general: a popular preacher." This means cubing will gain more respect. You have a very cynical and unrealistic view of society (understandable due to your young age and possible bad experiences at school). Very few people actually do something just because it's popular. You are overgeneralizing some people's behaviors. Many people simply think the cube is impossible and refuse to even touch it; it would actually be very hard to get more people into cubing. Like Tobias said, Ron and many others try very hard to get more people into cubing, so don't try to counter their efforts. Most people aren't doing things for popularity. Although that may look like the case based on some bad examples like Monkeydude, it is not common. [Freud] You might consider feeling sorry for them. They might have been socially and sexually abused when young. That's why they try to fit in by doing "popular" things. [/Freud] Seriously, this type of person is not common; don't be paranoid. Get a few more friends and enjoy cubing. 
Badmephisto summed up my thoughts pretty well. I did not expect so many people vote "no."


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## royzabeast (Jun 13, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> While I completely understand where you're coming from, I don't entirely agree. If speedcubing became popular, the popular people would start for the sole reason of seeming popular. I would like to see people get into speedcubing because they enjoy it, not because they think it will make them seem popular or intelligent. It's like when people learn just to impress people, but find it difficult because their hearts aren't in it. A speedcuber is someone who enjoys speedcubing, not someone who speedcubes in order to seem intelligent or cool.



I'm not sure where you guys are living, but where I go to school, I don't really see 'popular'. Everyone kinda mingles with another and their are different cliques, but it isn't like you can go to my school and point out "So their is where the band geeks eat their lunch, here is where the football kids hangout with their cheerleader boyfriends, and over here is the nerds that get beat up everyday." 

Their are those kids that buy the white American Eagle shirts for 20 bucks just to have the logo on their shirt, and I am friends with a couple of those kids, and they are generally not-so-smart, and you can tell they aren't _because_ they try so hard to fit in. All you really have to do is be yourself, and you get to hang out with people that are also themselves. Instead of those stupid people that are all trying to be like each other. That friend has asked me how to solve it, and I tried teaching him, but he gave after the first few minutes, and got mad at me because he thought i was giving him less information then I did with my other friend.

Sorry for the long post, I was just doing some out-loud thinking. Or whatever the equivalent of virtual out-loudness is .

Edit: 


fanwuq said:


> Completely understand? I doubt it; you did not experience what it was like to be cubing in 2005. People do not behave the way you think. What is your definition of popular? It is "regarded with favor, approval, or affection by people in general: a popular preacher." This means cubing will gain more respect. You have a very cynical and unrealistic view of society (understandable due to your young age and possible bad experiences at school). Very few people actually do something just because it's popular. You are overgeneralizing some people's behaviors. Many people simply think the cube is impossible and refuse to even touch it; it would actually be very hard to get more people into cubing. Like Tobias said, Ron and many others try very hard to get more people into cubing, so don't try to counter their efforts. Most people aren't doing things for popularity. Although that may look like the case based on some bad examples like Monkeydude, it is not common. [Freud] You might consider feeling sorry for them. They might have been socially and sexually abused when young. That's why they try to fit in by doing "popular" things. [/Freud] Seriously, this type of person is not common; don't be paranoid. Get a few more friends and enjoy cubing.
> Badmephisto summed up my thoughts pretty well. I did not expect so many people vote "no."



I can agree with this. I am really surprised by the amount of people that say to me "Oh, you looked that up on Youtube right? Yeah I tried that, but I gave up after a few minutes. I didn't really understand it." I am in the magnet at my school, and Their are some intelligent people in it just like us, and they couldn't really step up to it. So it really can't go so mainstream because you have to try, and what I feel seperates the magnet from the rest of the school isn't intelligence, but putting out effort.

And since I can't vote since I created it, I just have to say that I wouldn't mind.


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## soccerking813 (Jun 13, 2009)

royzabeast said:


> here is where the football kids hangout with their cheerleader boyfriends



Idk, your school seems pretty wierd to me. 

The "popular" people are the ones who dress and act like they do because they think it makes them looks cool, and they all hang out together, and all of the yearbook photos are of them.


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## d4m4s74 (Jun 13, 2009)

I'd say let's wait till sportstacking becomes really mainstream, see how much it get's ****ed up, and then decide if I want speedsolving to become popular


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## Lord Voldemort (Jun 13, 2009)

I don't know if I'll change my mind completely, but these last few posts have indeed been helpful. I suppose it depends on what you define as speedcubing. I would be annoyed if people started cubing just to be popular. On the other hand, if speedcubing means that more people would be as in to cubing as we are, then I would say yes. 

I think I would actually ok if I saw lots of people at school. However, I feel like I fit in right now amongst cubers, and if it became really popular, I'm not sure I would anymore. If we try to make it appealing to a more mainstream audience, I don't want people to try to make it seem different than it really is, but if it occurs naturally, then fine. I think that we would avoid the "oh, I'm better than you because I have/do this..." just naturally, but I'm not really sure.


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## JTW2007 (Jun 13, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Completely understand? I doubt it; you did not experience what it was like to be cubing in 2005.



Okay, I'll give you that.



fanwuq said:


> People do not behave the way you think. What is your definition of popular?



I was using the word popular for lack of a better one (at least a better one that would present itself to me in any reasonable time frame). By "a popular pastime", I meant something that people do solely because they think it will gain them prestige, approval, and a position in the social hierarchy. This isn't to say that no one does these things because of genuine interest, but just to say that there is a general trend.



fanwuq said:


> You have a very cynical and unrealistic view of society



Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.



fanwuq said:


> (understandable due to your young age and possible bad experiences at school).



Stereotypical, but likely true.



fanwuq said:


> Ron and many others try very hard to get more people into cubing, so don't try to counter their efforts.



I think that is very admirable, and I commend anyone who dedicates their time to doing so, but I think that it should be the people trying very hard to get into cubing, rather than Ron and others.



fanwuq said:


> Get a few more friends and enjoy cubing.



Easy for you to say...


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## Lord Voldemort (Jun 13, 2009)

"You have a very cynical and unrealistic view of society"

"(understandable due to your *young age* and possible bad experiences at school). " 

@ fanwuq - How old are you?
I remember that you just took AP tests, meaning you're in high school. 
Does that really qualify you to make the above statements? 

I don't mean to sound rude, but it's not like you have decades of experience viewing society that we don't, perhaps a few years at most. Most of us are in high school.


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## JTW2007 (Jun 13, 2009)

Lord Voldemort said:


> @ fanwuq - How old are you?
> I remember that you just took AP tests, meaning you're in high school.
> Does that really qualify you to make the above statements?
> 
> I don't mean to sound rude, but it's not like you have decades of experience viewing society that we don't, perhaps a few years at most. Most of us are in high school.



It qualifies fanwuq to make the above statements about/to me. I'll be a freshman in high school next year.


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## Dene (Jun 13, 2009)

shelley said:


> ...and are afraid to do something as simple as lube their cube if nobody's there to hold their hand through the process. I kind of miss the old days.



I wish I had Queen Shelley there to hold my hand through my cubing developments and milestones


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## veazer (Jun 13, 2009)

First, the economics of it are that, as long as the supply and the demand increase at the same rate, the price will remain relatively constant, but the quality will begin to have a larger gap, eg. there will be unturnable 1$ cubes at wallmart, and type z cubes from cube4you which just own everything. 
(I don't know much abouit economics, but eventually competition does drive quality and supply up, while keeping prices low)

And more importantly, speedstacking is much more commonly heard of, partly because it is taught at many schools... but even though it has a larger community, it is still not "popular" by any means. Cubing will never become truly mainstream or popular among the general public, but even if it becomes more popular, there will be a hardcore center of people who love cubing and there will be a lot of "I'm just here to impress people with the ability to do the thing" mentalities.

One final note: think of the number of (insert popular football team here) fans there are, and compare that to cubing.

And also, one does not need to be that smart to read a series of 6 repeated letters. Basic comprehension and the internet/a teacher is all someone needs.

EDIT: General public means take 1000 people at random and see how many of them can solve a cube... not many


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## JTW2007 (Jun 13, 2009)

veazer said:


> Cubing will never become truly mainstream or popular among the general public, but even if it becomes more popular, there will be a hardcore center of people who love cubing



That's comforting.


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## royzabeast (Jun 13, 2009)

soccerking813 said:


> royzabeast said:
> 
> 
> > here is where the football kids hangout with their cheerleader boyfriends
> ...



Yeah, but you see, they're only cool because they are trying to be so cool with each other. It's like a paradox I think. They are all just trying to impress each other and become cool, but that is only because their own definition of cool. 

Do you consider them cool? Does anyone else besides themselves consider them cool? Cause sometimes they are ****wads and some of them are pretty cool. I'm on offseason football, just trying to some fat into muscle, and I know this one guy that really annoys me. He is the stereotypical football ego, but without the girlfriend. Me and my friend always joke about him how he is probably just trying to hide the little girl that is inside of him, or maybe he is just gay. And that same friend that I joke around with wears American Eagle on a regular basis because he thinks it looks good on him. I think it's to makeup for coming from a not so rich family, but he still isn't trying to impress anybody, cause he hangs out with me, and I just usually wear basketball shorts/jeans and white shirt.

I actually have wanted to kind of copy Dan Brown and just wear blank colored shirts like he does, basically just variate between my normal white t-shirts.


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## fanwuq (Jun 14, 2009)

Lord Voldemort said:


> "You have a very cynical and unrealistic view of society"
> 
> "(understandable due to your *young age* and possible bad experiences at school). "
> 
> ...



My thoughts were pretty similar to his when I was in elementary/middle school. I was pretty cynical because I had bad relationships with so called "popular people." I'm not quite sure what happened when I started high school, but I didn't care so much for popularity and everything got better. I don't need decades of experiences; I just need the right experience that is similar enough to his situation. My experiences and perceptions of many subjects are still changing everyday.


Basically, don't try to be a rebel just to go against everyone else. If you are right, you are right; if you are wrong you are wrong; it is independent of the opinion of others.

Now, about the economics question. It is not the main issue; no matter which way it goes, unless something extreme happens, the prices will not change that much. The reasoning that higher demand translates to lower prices is wrong, but that is not the only factor. Supply curve could also shift, depending on the expectations of the supplier and the input costs. If the suppliers expect a huge increase in the popularity of cubing because of a major event like the world championships, they might produce more and prices would be lowered. There are so many factors and overall, price is not so important.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Jun 14, 2009)

uhh, I don't think making speedcubing popular would be awesome. It wouldn't be recognized as a talent, but as a sport that everybody plays, like football (american and international versions).


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## fanwuq (Jun 14, 2009)

aznmortalx said:


> uhh, I don't think making speedcubing popular would be awesome. It wouldn't be recognized as a talent, but as a sport that everybody plays, like football (american and international versions).



What's wrong with that? (Don't be so elitist. )
Plus, I really doubt it would ever become even 1% as popular. 
1. People don't have the patience.
2. People don't have the interest. 

I think as long as people are aware of cubing, it is good. Face it, not everyone is going to get addicted. Generating interesting is much harder than taking "stupid" questions from the occasional noob. 
For every person saying, "wats the bestest cuba?", you have over 100 people saying, "This $hit is too tough for me. It's boring."


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## Deleted member 2864 (Jun 14, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> aznmortalx said:
> 
> 
> > uhh, I don't think making speedcubing popular would be awesome. It wouldn't be recognized as a talent, but as a sport that everybody plays, like football (american and international versions).
> ...



That it true. I highly doubt it will ever become a grand sport played on ESPN, but in the case it did, it would be pretty darn hard to gain more people that are willing to spend a couple hours learning.


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## endless_akatsuki (Jun 14, 2009)

Come on, guys!
Of course I want cubing to be popular, because then everybody will know when I get a world record. 

No, but really, I think it would be really cool to actually have at least a couple people in my school or something that are into cubing, since that would really be fun.

Who cares about those "popular" people? Just pwn them. Anyway, they probably don't even have the patience to actually learn to solve the cube anyway.


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## royzabeast (Jun 14, 2009)

aznmortalx said:


> uhh, I don't think making speedcubing popular would be awesome. It wouldn't be recognized as a talent, but as a sport that everybody plays, like football (american and international versions).


Well, see anybody can go outside, and shoot a basketball and sometimes make it. You can go to the park and pick up anybdoy for a random game of 5 on 5, and you'll have bad players and good players. 

But cubing isn't going to be a sport you can gradually get better at. Usually I'll record my average for a few days, and they look the same, but then the next few days ill drop three seconds. No inbetween. And basically you either know how to do or not how to do it. Like I read one time in the thread "100 things you've heard while cubing", where somebody heard someone say "oh I can only solve 1/2/5 sides". Usually its six times by the end of the day that you started learning.


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## Spyyder (Jun 14, 2009)

I'm going to say no. With large groups comes an even greater amount of immaturity.

I witnessed yoyoing become more and more popular over the past few years even though you could still say its small and underground. When i first started yoyoing back in '04 the community was really small, and it was the friendliest group of ppl on the internet, and the forums were amazing since nearly every post was constructive. As more ppl started coming into the sport everything started to get worse, spam, flames, etc. I got sick of it and now I hardly ever communicate with the yoyoing community. =\

I dont think that this sport becoming really popular would be good for community.


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## mazei (Jun 14, 2009)

I think immature people would end up stopping anyway. I mean they are immature so how would they even give the commitment to practice? There will be immature questions popping up from time to time but tell me, in which activity do you do don't immature questions pop up?


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## SparkZer00 (Jun 14, 2009)

aznmortalx said:


> uhh, I don't think making speedcubing popular would be awesome. It wouldn't be recognized as a talent, but as a sport that everybody plays, like football (american and international versions).



Aren't the best and most elite football players, international and american versions, referred to as being "talented"?


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## Feanaro (Jun 14, 2009)

I think that the community should grow a little, but not to where it has its own timeslot on ESPN. More people means more variety and ideas. It could do a lot for speedcubing in general to have more people to come up with new things.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Jun 14, 2009)

SparkZer00 said:


> aznmortalx said:
> 
> 
> > uhh, I don't think making speedcubing popular would be awesome. It wouldn't be recognized as a talent, but as a sport that everybody plays, like football (american and international versions).
> ...



But not the talent speedcubing possesses, I guess. I was having trouble wording that post as you can see =D


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## veazer (Jun 14, 2009)

I think the poll should be reset with only "yes" and "no" options.. the second option now is only distorting the data in favor of the negative...

Just my opinion though


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## stevethecuber (Jun 15, 2009)

No..i'd rather be unique from others.


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## CubeLord (Jun 15, 2009)

I think that cubing needs to expand throughout the world. Why you might ask. Cubing has a benefit in helping your synapses grow bigger and your dendrites grow smaller. If cubing is part of a fourth, fifth, or sixth grade curriculum, teachers would be satisfied in how these kids would be getting smarter. Cubing can have a benefit for your left brain. My response towards this question is yes.


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## royzabeast (Jun 15, 2009)

CubeLord said:


> I think that cubing needs to expand throughout the world. Why you might ask. Cubing has a benefit in helping your synapses grow bigger and your dendrites grow smaller. If cubing is part of a fourth, fifth, or sixth grade curriculum, teachers would be satisfied in how these kids would be getting smarter. Cubing can have a benefit for your left brain. My response towards this question is yes.



Are you being sarcastic when you say that cubing will alter your nerve cells?


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## pcharles93 (Jun 15, 2009)

CubeLord said:


> I think that cubing needs to expand throughout the world. Why you might ask. Cubing has a benefit in helping your synapses grow bigger and your dendrites grow smaller. If cubing is part of a fourth, fifth, or sixth grade curriculum, teachers would be satisfied in how these kids would be getting smarter. Cubing can have a benefit for your left brain. My response towards this question is yes.[/COLOR]



Cubing doesn't make you smarter.


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## FaNtAsYDeAlEr (Jun 16, 2009)

pcharles93 said:


> Cubing doesn't make you smarter.



Well Cubing in general may not make you smarter but it can help kids develop good habits such as patience since they have to think about each step logically so not to undo what they have done because it depends more on logic and reason then guesswork.


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## pcharles93 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yeah, it gives you the tools to become smarter and think more efficiently, but no IQ jumps have been caused by cubing.


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## FaNtAsYDeAlEr (Jun 16, 2009)

Well of course its not going to make your IQ get higher the IQ test is a standardized test. Intelligence is made up of the skills of logical reasoning, problem solving, critical thinking, and adaptation.


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## JTW2007 (Jun 16, 2009)

pcharles93 said:


> no IQ jumps have been caused by cubing.



I'm pretty sure my IQ jumped from 0 to 1 when I started.


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## moogra (Jun 16, 2009)

A lot of you that don't want speedcubing to become more popular were also jealous that cup stacking had sponsors. This implies that you're just going with what everyone else is saying.


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## SlaughterMelon (Jun 16, 2009)

Sin-H said:


> SlaughterMelon said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, because there are NO mainstream sports for "smart" people or people who aren't "sporty" or "athletic."
> ...




1. Poker? Really? Is that a sport for "smart" people? And last time I checked, chess was "nerdy," and hardly a mainstream sport that is played/followed by the masses.
2. Maybe Guitar Hero isn't the best example, but Halo is. I'm sure I'll offend a lot of people here, but Halo really isn't a very good game. It's unbalanced, blah, blah, blah. But it is one of the most played, and most bought IPs in today's gaming market. Why? Because every 10 year old kid and their mom (ok, maybe not their mom) is playing it. Why are they playing it? Because it's "cool" to have an xbox and "cool" to play Halo. Even if they are grossly under the age ANYONE should be playing a Mature rated game. I don't want to go too long, but another example is Call of Duty 4. People started playing it because it was "cool" and on the xbox, when, in fact, they had never seen screenshots or video, much less played, Call of Duty 1 (which is leagues above CoD4).
-We may not learn about war tactics because of these "killing-games" (btw, when you say killing games, I think of Unreal Tournament), but our society/culture has allowed us to learn (indirectly), through the sports of Airsoft and Paintball.
-Yes, we rely on math. You are confusing Mathematics with Arithmetic. Arithmetic is the adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, etc. of numbers. Mathematics is problems solving, by using algorithms or heuristics, which is what we, as cubers do. In the United States, we are very good at arithmetic, but we are terrible at mathematics. We learn to take tests, and in these tests are pre-made problems, often with "perfect" answers (rational answers). However, if you compare our "real life" problem scores with those of other countries (say, Japan) we pale in comparison. This is because our society is so focused on making us LOOK good, not making us actually BE good at mathematics.



qqwref said:


> I want many more people who understand cube theory, have a sense of humor, and are willing to try many different events and puzzles, but I don't want to have to deal with a huge number of incomprehensible newbies. Can I just have the first group? Please?



You fail to realize in order to have group 1, you have to have group 2. You were a newbie once, too.


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## qqwref (Jun 17, 2009)

SlaughterMelon said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > I want many more people who understand cube theory, have a sense of humor, and are willing to try many different events and puzzles, but I don't want to have to deal with a huge number of incomprehensible newbies. Can I just have the first group? Please?
> ...



Not really. I was a *beginner* but I was never the kind of noob that you see nowadays, who ask tons of stupid questions, can't understand any tutorial unless it is on youtube, and don't know how to write English. When I started out I had the common sense to observe the forums (lurk) and read up on cubing before I started posting, instead of immediately making topics as soon as I could solve a cube. There is a huge difference between a newcomer and a noob; while someone who is just new may someday become a respected member of the community, a user who starts off looking like an idiot and stays that way never will be.


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## jcuber (Jun 17, 2009)

What about those who start n00b but change? (like me, i think)

EDIT:

I don't want anyone to think I believe I am respected yet, but I am definitely getting better than a month or two ago (as far as I can tell).


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## Faz (Jun 17, 2009)

Lol jcuber. 

I would like speedcubing to grow over here in Australia, as it is not very popular, and it would help us get sponsorship, and an official competition.


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## fanwuq (Jun 17, 2009)

SlaughterMelon said:


> 1. Poker? Really? Is that a sport for "smart" people? And last time I checked, chess was "nerdy," and hardly a mainstream sport that is played/followed by the masses.
> 2. Maybe Guitar Hero isn't the best example, but Halo is. I'm sure I'll offend a lot of people here, but Halo really isn't a very good game. It's unbalanced, blah, blah, blah. But it is one of the most played, and most bought IPs in today's gaming market. Why? Because every 10 year old kid and their mom (ok, maybe not their mom) is playing it. Why are they playing it? Because it's "cool" to have an xbox and "cool" to play Halo. Even if they are grossly under the age ANYONE should be playing a Mature rated game. I don't want to go too long, but another example is Call of Duty 4. People started playing it because it was "cool" and on the xbox, when, in fact, they had never seen screenshots or video, much less played, Call of Duty 1 (which is leagues above CoD4).
> 
> In the United States, we are very good at arithmetic, but we are terrible at mathematics. We learn to take tests, and in these tests are pre-made problems, often with "perfect" answers (rational answers). However, if you compare our "real life" problem scores with those of other countries (say, Japan) we pale in comparison. This is because our society is so focused on making us LOOK good, not making us actually BE good at mathematics.



1. Why can't Poker be for smart people? I remember a mathematician came to my school once to talk about cryptography to play poker using some sort of number transformations. Also you can probably calculate the probability of getting the card you want.
2. If chess isn't mainstream, cubing will never be mainstream. Funny thing is that at my school, only a few of the "smarter" people play chess, many of the people who fail classes are actually really good at it. Chess is definitely more street smarts than book smarts.
3. Since when were video games "cool"? Are you in elementary school? Usually only the avoidant/anti-social people are serious about video games. If you always talk about video games with your "friends," you don't have a life. I met this one kid at my school who said that if he could do _anything_ for one day, he would stay home to sleep and play his video games. You don't know how disgusted I felt after hearing that from a so called "human being." That is not natural and I like to think that the majority of the human race is above that.
4. You assumptions about the United States is just wrong. It is definitely the other way around. Sorry to say this, but Americans fail at arithmetic, but generally have good general problem solving skills. I know many people who still count using their fingers in the US. In China, almost everyone knows his multiplication and periodic tables by heart. In America, Home Depot is a pretty popular store; very few places like that in China. People actually solve their own problems at home using logic in America. Fixing your own roof and painting your own house is real life problem solving.


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## jcuber (Jun 17, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> *3. Since when were video games "cool"? Are you in elementary school? Usually only the anti-social people are serious about video games. If you always talk about video games with your "friends," you don't have a life. I met this one kid at my school who said that if he could do anything for one day, he would stay home to sleep and play his video games. You don't know how disgusted I felt after hearing that from a so called "human being." That is not natural and I like to think that the majority of the human race is above that.*
> 4. You assumptions about the United States is just wrong. It is definitely the other way around. Sorry to say this, but Americans fail at arithmetic, but generally have good general problem solving skills. I know many people who still count using their fingers in the US. In China, almost everyone knows his multiplication and periodic tables by heart. In America, Home Depot is a pretty popular store; very few places like that in China. People actually solve their own problems at home using logic in America. Fixing your own roof and painting your own house is real life problem solving.



What about doing splitscreen with friends?

I agree, _most_ of us americans are dumbasses. Most probably including me.


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## fanwuq (Jun 17, 2009)

jcuber said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > 3. Since when were video games "cool"? Are you in elementary school? Usually only the anti-social people are serious about video games. If you always talk about video games with your "friends," you don't have a life. I met this one kid at my school who said that if he could do _anything_ for one day, he would stay home to sleep and play his video games. You don't know how disgusted I felt after hearing that from a so called "human being." That is not natural and I like to think that the majority of the human race is above that.
> ...


lolwut?
You fail to see the point. You don't agree... unless "dumbasses" have good problem solving skills?
Video games aren't exactly stupid. They are just lame; it's not what "cool" people do. Maybe an occasional game once a few months or so. If it is one of your main hobbies, you are certainly in trouble.
If you only hang out with your friends online and not meet them in person, you are avoidant, and possibly even anti-social if you play violent games.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder


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## Brian (Jun 17, 2009)

I voted no because I would rather be unique and I am already practicing alot just to be half as fast as my brother Anthony Searle


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## JTW2007 (Jun 17, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> If you only hang out with your friends online and not meet them in person, you are avoidant, and possibly even anti-social if you play violent games.



I'm antisocial, but I hang out with my friends in person and not online, and I don't play video games, so I don't see the correlation.


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## Lord Voldemort (Jun 17, 2009)

@ fanwuq - How is chess street smarts? I found that amusing


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## fanwuq (Jun 17, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > If you only hang out with your friends online and not meet them in person, you are avoidant, and possibly even anti-social if you play violent games.
> ...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
I'm staying away from you. 

There is a correlation, but it is not 100% positive or negative.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=ac65e8118d038e678f0a78579c79cc19



Airman 1st Class Voldemort,
Chess involves a bit of free thinking; it's not something you can learn from a school class; it requires a bit of experience with interacting with other people.


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## qqwref (Jun 17, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> you are ... possibly even anti-social if you play violent games.



I think I ought to butt in here to say that if someone plays violent video games it does not at all mean that they themselves are a violent person. People who play video games involving (for instance) killing people do not typically end up murdering someone in real life (although the small number of people who acturally do want to kill someone in real life very often end up playing those kind of video games). I think that many people have a violent instinct - whether it comes from anger/frustration, curiosity, or sadism - and, even though I personally am not a fan of violent games, I would say it is clearly better for people to curb that by playing violent games than by actually hurting people.

Anyway, video games are pretty popular... the most popular kids in school may not spend much time gaming, but a lot of people are into games these days. Considering that large segment of American kids and teens, it's nothing more than a fallacy to say that people who spend a lot of time playing video games are antisocial. Typically, part of the draw is the social aspect: many of the most popular games nowadays are as popular as they are because of the ability to play against and communicate with other people. Many of these games involve teamwork, too, such as World of Warcraft, where players are encouraged to band together in groups to complete the more difficult quests. So while people who spend hours each day playing games may not be engaging in normal social behavior, it's extremely inaccurate to say they are not interested in socializing. I know a lot of people who play video games and none of them have anything approaching Antisocial Personality Disorder.


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## JTW2007 (Jun 17, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> JTW2007 said:
> 
> 
> > fanwuq said:
> ...



Okay, so I'm not _technically_ antisocial, but I generally dislike large groups of people.


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## Lord Voldemort (Jun 17, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Airman 1st Class Voldemort,
> Chess involves a bit of free thinking; it's not something you can learn from a school class; it requires a bit of experience with interacting with other people.



Well, it's to me it seems more logical, at least at the higher levels.
A computer could analyze a position and give you a definite best move (well, not yet perhaps, but we'll get there soon), then free thinking probably isn't involved.


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## fanwuq (Jun 17, 2009)

qqwref said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > you are ... possibly even anti-social if you play violent games.
> ...



I mostly agree, hence the possibly. Video games are popular in the sense that a lot of people play them, but I still don't think they are popular in the sense that they are played by the "cool people." 
Video games do have the possible good effect of allowing people to vent their anger, but these people already have emotional issues without video games. There are better treatments and this could possibly have a negative impact. That is not the main issue with video games. The main issue is that there are better things to do in life than playing videos. If playing video games all day is your idea of the ideal day, then you are as good as dead. It is something to do when you get really bored and there is nothing else to do; it should not be one of your main activities.
I would say people who spent much time playing video games do have Avoidant personality disorder. They are trying to cope with their inability to interact with others in the real world. In the virtual world, they can hide behind a mask and not risk being humiliated.


Voldemort,

In school, a good memory gets you further than good understanding in most subjects. Sometimes you can attempt to confuse your opponents. I'm not at a high chess playing level, but I know that it is more of flexibly thinking for yourself than knowing the textbook answer.


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## Lord Voldemort (Jun 17, 2009)

I don't mind violent video games myself (it does get annoying when people fail to see a good game unless it has a lot of blood...), but haven't video games also been shown it increase violence in children? That's what the ratings are for, but a lot of people don't follow them.

Now I'm not even worthy of Airman 1st Class? 

EDIT: I know what you're talking about now with chess though. Lots of people will just go on memorizing openings with the knowledge that they're doing the "best" move. Then, when someone opposing them doesn't do the "best" move, they can't even make a good move sometimes because they don't actually think, let alone turning it to their advantage.


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## JTW2007 (Jun 17, 2009)

Lord Voldemort said:


> A computer could analyze a position and give you a definite best move (well, not yet perhaps, but we'll get there soon), then free thinking probably isn't involved.



Computers play without any personality, which is why I don't like playing them. A computer would almost certainly never play a hypermodern opening, because it wouldn't be traditionally correct chess. I think that in order for chess to be fun, you and your opponent have to put a small amount of personality into your game.


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## jcuber (Jun 17, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > JTW2007 said:
> ...



Most people also dislike traffic, which involves large groups of people in cars. 



fanwuq said:


> jcuber said:
> 
> 
> > fanwuq said:
> ...



Sorry, highlighted the wrong text. should be the above version.

I was only giving an example using splitscreen videogames as an example. 

anyway, a good hour long session of any GTA is enough to relieve a week's worth of school stress.


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## Rama (Jun 17, 2009)

shelley said:


> I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, the more people get into cubing, the more likely we can get money and sponsorship for holding tournaments and such, which are always fun.
> 
> On the other hand, I've also noticed how the culture of our community has changed as it's gotten bigger. Back in the day cubers were people who were willing to seek out information themselves and try new things. Now we get newbies asking the same questions over and over even as a wealth of information is right in front of their faces, and are afraid to do something as simple as lube their cube if nobody's there to hold their hand through the process. I kind of miss the old days.



+1


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## Rama (Jun 17, 2009)

qqwref said:


> SlaughterMelon said:
> 
> 
> > qqwref said:
> ...



Epical +1 for you Michael!
I can recall saying the same thing a while ago!


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## Sin-H (Jun 17, 2009)

Rama said:


> qqwref said:
> 
> 
> > SlaughterMelon said:
> ...


oh yess


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## Lumej (Jun 17, 2009)

I think it depends on how you define "popular".

If it means that more people know that speedcubing exists, that there's a higher level of awareness, and if they're interested they look into it and join the community, then yes, I think speedcubing should definitely become more popular.

But if it's more like a craze or a fad, everyone just doing it because everyone is doing it.... I could imagine this happening, at least in my town or so. But maybe you (the posters before me) are right with your assumption that maybe not cubing, but at least speedcubing is far to much work, so that a fad wouldn't actually happen.
So I'd not like speedcubing to become "popular" in such a way. (_everyone _doing it because _everyone _is doing it / fad)


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## rahulkadukar (Jun 17, 2009)

I prefer it the way it is (without media coverage) anyway the number of competitions held every year is increasing and this is a good sign.


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## Johannes91 (Jun 17, 2009)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Well, it's to me it [chess] seems more logical, at least at the higher levels.


Knowledge is a big part on the very high levels. But it's possible to get fairly strong (2000+ at least) without much "book knowledge" by having a deep understanding, and vice versa.



Lord Voldemort said:


> A computer could analyze a position and give you a definite best move (well, not yet perhaps, but we'll get there soon)


Soon? Chess is far from solved.



JTW2007 said:


> A computer would almost certainly never play a hypermodern opening, because it wouldn't be traditionally correct chess.


That doesn't make sense. Computers use the opening books the programmers/chess experts give them. Making the program start "thinking" on its own from the first move would be dumb considering the ridiculous amounts of opening theory we have these days.

And even without hard-coded books modern openings would be possible; computers care about "traditional correctness" just as much as they are told to.



JTW2007 said:


> I think that in order for chess to be fun, you and your opponent have to put a small amount of personality into your game.


I don't think it's important at all. "I play against the pieces."

On-topic: I don't care much. I would like to see other aspects of cubing become more common among speedsolvers, though.


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## Stefan (Jun 17, 2009)

Nukoca said:


> badmephisto said:
> 
> 
> > I'm very surprised about this thread. I actually thought it was a stupid question, voted yes, and then noticed that I was actually in the minority!
> ...


Wrong.

There's no option _"I wouldn't mind if speedcubing *didn't* become popular"_. That means the people who would vote this, and in general all who don't care, only have the existing "I wouldn't mind" option. Therefore you cannot rightfully go ahead and declare all of these "pro-popular". Since you don't know, you cannot meaningfully count these votes either way. There might actually be more "pro" people than "contra" people, but you can't infer that from this biased unbalanced poll.

Btw, that wouldn't be an "optical illusion" even if you were right. I think you just said that to make yourself sound more interesting.


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## Anthony (Jun 17, 2009)

rahulkadukar said:


> I prefer it the way it is (without media coverage)



Well, cubing does get some media coverage. Local newspapers and TV stations frequently have short segments on a nearby competition. I'm assuming you mean without a lot of media coverage.

Although, it's not always local, Tyson blindsolved on CNN once.  Then he was obviously on Good Morning America more recently.

Which reminds me, last year I was on the computer and I remember my mom yelling for me to come over and take a look at the TV. The UK Open was mentioned on CNN or Fox, I forget which.  It surprised me because I live in Texas lol.


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## Thieflordz5 (Jun 17, 2009)

FaNtAsYDeAlEr said:


> If it was more popular there would be more demand for cubes so cube prices would be lower and we could get our cubes in the us easier and faster. we might see some better speed cubes idk just some thoughts. I do also like the fact that not a lot of ppl can solve one you feel like you have accomplished something by solving it.



No, that would mean demand would go up for cubes, causing them to cost more, you have it backwards.


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## SlaughterMelon (Jun 17, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> 1. Why can't Poker be for smart people? I remember a mathematician came to my school once to talk about cryptography to play poker using some sort of number transformations. Also you can probably calculate the probability of getting the card you want.
> 2. If chess isn't mainstream, cubing will never be mainstream. Funny thing is that at my school, only a few of the "smarter" people play chess, many of the people who fail classes are actually really good at it. Chess is definitely more street smarts than book smarts.
> 3. Since when were video games "cool"? Are you in elementary school? Usually only the avoidant/anti-social people are serious about video games. If you always talk about video games with your "friends," you don't have a life. I met this one kid at my school who said that if he could do _anything_ for one day, he would stay home to sleep and play his video games. You don't know how disgusted I felt after hearing that from a so called "human being." That is not natural and I like to think that the majority of the human race is above that.
> 4. You assumptions about the United States is just wrong. It is definitely the other way around. Sorry to say this, but Americans fail at arithmetic, but generally have good general problem solving skills. I know many people who still count using their fingers in the US. In China, almost everyone knows his multiplication and periodic tables by heart. In America, Home Depot is a pretty popular store; very few places like that in China. People actually solve their own problems at home using logic in America. Fixing your own roof and painting your own house is real life problem solving.



1. Ok, fine. I had something here, but I completely forgot what it was 
2. Actually, I have noticed that Chess is very popular with people who fail classes, too. The thing is, at least at my school (Arizona, here), these people (not trying to be racist or offensive or anything) are mostly Native American outcasts, many considered to be "antisocial."
3. Actually, I'm a high school senior  Class of 2010, baby! And it's not "video games" that are popular, it is the game (Halo, Guitar Hero, etc.) that is popular. Many of the "cool, social" people I know are hardcore Halo or GH players, or at least consider themselves to be (playing on expert, maybe not Dragonforce, but other things). And you assume that games are not a social activity. I find that most people play games online, with other people (even if those other people are prepubescent teens cracking "yo momma" jokes over XBL), or playing GH or Halo with their friends at their house, before/after seeing a movie. Also, most hardcore gamers are not "antisocial" or "avoidant" (not talking about the disorder, here). Most hardcore gamers I know, at least, are looking for every chance to meet with their community/clan friends at various Cons or meet ups.
4. That's not the point. The point is we're TRAINED in school to do good on tests, which are pre-made to have "perfect" answers. Our textbooks are not formatted to teach us problem solving skills, they are formatted to teach us how to factor binomials, and add fractions. When you're in an Algebra math class in ANY city in the United States, anyone can tell you the formula of a line, anyone can tell you the quadratic formula, but no one knows how to pull the correct data out of a real life situation (not a pre-made word problem), and use the formulas correctly.



> Not really. I was a *beginner* but I was never the kind of noob that you see nowadays, who ask tons of stupid questions, can't understand any tutorial unless it is on youtube, and don't know how to write English. When I started out I had the common sense to observe the forums (lurk) and read up on cubing before I started posting, instead of immediately making topics as soon as I could solve a cube. There is a huge difference between a newcomer and a noob; while someone who is just new may someday become a respected member of the community, a user who starts off looking like an idiot and stays that way never will be.



That's you. That's not every other "noob" who comes here. And just because they start out typing in 13375p34k (leetspeak, for those "not in the know"), doesn't mean you can't shape them to become what you want them to become (even if it means making a 10 part youtube video of cubetheory 101).


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## teller (Jun 17, 2009)

Thieflordz5 said:


> FaNtAsYDeAlEr said:
> 
> 
> > If it was more popular there would be more demand for cubes so cube prices would be lower and we could get our cubes in the us easier and faster. we might see some better speed cubes idk just some thoughts. I do also like the fact that not a lot of ppl can solve one you feel like you have accomplished something by solving it.
> ...



Wrong. See my post above and learn some economics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale


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## enigmahack (Jun 17, 2009)

Okay - I only wish to make 1 point and I don't think it's one that anyone has mentioned yet. 

There are definitely noobs in here, and I would be willing to state that it's probably a 50/50 split of "good noobs" vs "Bad noobs" 

The good noobs are the ones you don't hear from because they DO searches, they DO look things up, they DO study on their own and only post questions when they're really stuck. I would consider myself one of these noobs. (That being said, I'm not really a forum noob, I've been on forums while ARPANet was still used widely) but I'm not really a cubing noob either. I've been solving rubik's cubes since 1997 when I first got mine when I was 15 or so. 

I'm a speedsolving noob... Anyway that's besides the point. 

The point overall is that no matter where you go, there's going to be stupidity/noobishness/undesirable behavior. 

On the flip side, haven't any of you gone onto another forum, interested in something new and poked around looking for something and didn't find it right away so you asked and got a response from the existing members there along the lines of "Look it up, Noob"?

There are 2 sides to every story and while groups tend to get larger, more and more people are going to be on the latter side. I think as a community we have to start being a little more open minded to the people, not the behavior. 

We should be glad people are interested, not giving them hell because they don't know how to use a forum's search utility.


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## EmersonHerrmann (Jun 17, 2009)

Dene said:


> To be honest, with the recent influx of complete morons into the speedcubing community, I don't see how it would be for the best to have it as a big sport.



All those people who either think they know a lot about cubing and don't, or know a ton about cubing and aren't fast AT ALL. Or just morons in general  I see your point, as there are many morons in the world 

P.S. - add an option that say "I don't really care if speedcubing becomes popular or not." because the second option is still leaning towards speedcubing becoming popular...

P.P.S. - I also agree with the guy above me <(^-^)> Except for about the no-giving-them-hell part. I mean, if you aren't forceful with morons, when will they ever listen?


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## fanwuq (Jun 17, 2009)

teller said:


> Thieflordz5 said:
> 
> 
> > FaNtAsYDeAlEr said:
> ...



Wrong. See my previous post that was after your previous post. Popularity means a direct shift in demand curve. It does not change the supply. Economies of scale deals purely with the supply. You are talking about changes in long-run average cost in economies of scale and that is no where near a direct effect of changes in popularity.
You example does in fact exist, but your reasoning for why it happened was wrong. If it is a perfectly or monopolisticly competitive market, you will see short term profit when the demand increases. Entrance is easy, so more firms could enter the market to try to get of that profit. The firms expect profit, so they produce more, shifting the supply curve so that the price and quantity reaches equilibrium again. Quantity definitely increase. Price can go either way.

Causes of shift in demand
Changes in disposable income
*Changes in taste and fashion (changes in preferences)* AKA popularity
The availability and cost of credit
Changes in the prices of related goods (substitutes and complements)
Population size and composition
Expectations

Causes of shift in supply
number of sellers
price of other goods
input costs
technology
*expectations* firm expects profits from increase popularity of good.

The demand curve definitely shifts first, and the supply curve could follow. If you look at the graph (you can't argue against the almighty graph!), demand shifts outward and price shifts up. If for example a cubing competition is well publicized ahead of time, the firms may overproduce and prices would go down first. But the popularity itself shifts price up.
Way too many factors, and every situation is different. That's why I love economics! It really is similar to FMC cubing. It's all about the efficiency!




Slaughtermelon,

3. Don't care. Video games are lame, and that's that. I used to play a lot, but now I know they are unproductive.
4. I hear Americans in my school complain: "Why are we learning this calculus and stuff, it's not like we will ever use this in real life. I don't care about trig formulas if I want to be a ______." I don't know what kind of American are you. Most Americans I know are carefree and practical. They want to do something useful in real life and never study for tests. Asians, on the other hand, worry too much about pointless tests and the really nerdy ones aren't quite in touch with real life. It's not unheard of in China for students to commit suicide after failing important tests. The beauty is that the Americans who don't use quadratic and other equations properly in real life are normal. The opportunity cost of learning the formulas is too high and the real marginal return of learning them is low. They know how to prioritize what they do. I don't agree with your views, but I think you would agree with the view of Aldous Huxley in _Brave New World _.


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## Bryan (Jun 17, 2009)

SlaughterMelon said:


> > Not really. I was a *beginner* but I was never the kind of noob that you see nowadays, who ask tons of stupid questions, can't understand any tutorial unless it is on youtube, and don't know how to write English. When I started out I had the common sense to observe the forums (lurk) and read up on cubing before I started posting, instead of immediately making topics as soon as I could solve a cube. There is a huge difference between a newcomer and a noob; while someone who is just new may someday become a respected member of the community, a user who starts off looking like an idiot and stays that way never will be.
> 
> 
> 
> That's you. That's not every other "noob" who comes here. And just because they start out typing in 13375p34k (leetspeak, for those "not in the know"), doesn't mean you can't shape them to become what you want them to become (even if it means making a 10 part youtube video of cubetheory 101).



I was never a stupid newbie ever. I wish I could find the forum postings I made when I was younger (but it was on an educational BBS, not public), but I would have never dreamed about using bad grammar or spelling. And when I was first interested in Rubik's cube, I trolled the forums for a long long time. 

The best noobs are ones you don't realize are noobs. Their name just slowly becomes familiar.


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## Daniel Wu (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm a bad noob. Oh well.


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## teller (Jun 17, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Wrong. See my previous post that was after your previous post. Popularity means a direct shift in demand curve. It does not change the supply. Economies of scale deals purely with the supply. You are talking about changes in long-run average cost in economies of scale and that is no where near a direct effect of changes in popularity.
> You example does in fact exist, but your reasoning for why it happened was wrong. If it is a perfectly or monopolisticly competitive market, you will see short term profit when the demand increases. Entrance is easy, so more firms could enter the market to try to get of that profit. The firms expect profit, so they produce more, shifting the supply curve so that the price and quantity reaches equilibrium again. Quantity definitely increase. Price can go either way.
> 
> Causes of shift in demand
> ...


Agreed, economics is fascinating. Unfortunately, it's a complex system involving human choices that are difficult to capture with equations and graphs (although some are valid). At any rate, I can't see your graph because it didn't post.

You're correct that any sudden increase in demand will tend to cause prices to initially rise, but there is not really an "equilibrium" that it will return to--if demand persists, more suppliers will enter the game with new manufacturing innovations and new supply chains will form. There is a learning curve that suppliers walk down. For example, computers today cost $300 that easily out perform a $10,000 PC from 1990--and brother, demand has exploded astronomically since then. Maybe you wouldn't see prices fall if there were only a single supplier with some government mandated monopoly or patent, but that's not happening here.

Back in the 80's, cubing exploded and the alternate manufacturers came out of the woodwork. And cubes were cheaper. They didn't know about speedcubing back then so they were all pretty crappy quality, but you get the idea. Now we have manufacturing powerhouse China in the game so I think it's even more true today, and again...it's already happening since 2003 and cubes are cheaper and more abundant than ever.

If you're talking about mere fads, then perhaps I agree. They fade too quickly, before the economics can really kick in. But it feels to me like the renaissance of cubing is more than a fad.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Jun 17, 2009)

TobiasDaneels said:


> Unbelievable what i'm reading here.
> 
> It makes me mad that people who started cubing within the last year are so intolerant towards a growing community. If we back when they started were as selfish, they wouldn't have been welcomed as friendly as they were.




I couldn't agree more. Just because you didn't perceive yourself as a noob when you began doesn't mean you weren't perceived as one. Sure some people might come off a little bit annoying/weird at first but that's not reason enough to ostracize them from the community. I think the speedcubing community should be more tolerant of noobs and newcomers alike because there is a lot more to be gained than lost from more publicity. I'd be willing to deal with thousands of "annoying" questions just for the sake of that one person who might be the next Nakaji or Erik sitting at home right now, ignorant of the cubing world. 



TobiasDaneels said:


> *
> It's like wanting to join a community, and when you're in, claiming that it shouldn't grow anymore.*



This is just like anti-immigration conservatives in the USA. They are so quick to say that no more people should be allowed into the U.S. but they forget that their ancestors were once immigrants. It's the most frustrating thing. Oh, but they're Mexican immigrants, it's different right? 

As long as the new people don't invade the cubing world, give everyone small pox blankets and ship 'em off to reservations, I'm cool with the community growing larger. Because trust me, reservations suck.

I think it's easy to lose sight of why we began cubing in the first place, but we gotta remember that those reasons are more significant than the slight annoyance we might receive upon reading a repetitive post on the speedsolving forum.


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## fanwuq (Jun 17, 2009)

teller said:


> Agreed, economics is fascinating. Unfortunately, it's a complex system involving human choices that are difficult to capture with equations and graphs (although some are valid). At any rate, I can't see your graph because it didn't post. You're correct that any sudden increase in demand will tend to cause prices to initially rise, but there is not really an "equilibrium" that it will return to--if demand persists, more suppliers will enter the game with new manufacturing innovations and new supply chains will form. There is a learning curve that suppliers walk down. For example, computers today cost $300 that easily out perform a $10,000 PC from 1990--and brother, demand has exploded astronomically since then. Maybe you wouldn't see prices fall if there were only a single supplier with some government mandated monopoly or patent, but that's not happening here. Back in the 80's, cubing exploded and the alternate manufacturers came out of the woodwork. And cubes were cheaper. They didn't know about speedcubing back then so they were all pretty crappy quality, but you get the idea. Now we have manufacturing powerhouse China in the game so I think it's even more true today, and again...it's already happening since 2003 and cubes are cheaper and more abundant than ever. If you're talking about mere fads, then perhaps I agree. They fade too quickly, before the economics can really kick in. But it feels to me like the renaissance of cubing is more than a fad.


Oh sorry, I didn't post a graph this time. It's just the basic supply and demand graphs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand The graphs are very easy to use and actually are very accurate; you just have know how to draw all the right graphs. Failure to draw the correct graphs made people lose confidence in economists in the 70s when they weren't able to explain the stagflation.
In the case of the computers, it is not really the demand that caused the higher quality of computers and the lower prices even though people certainly demand such things. Technology is a shift factor for the supply curve.  
I believe you saying that increased demand can cause increased supply; and increased supply can cause increased demand. See Induced demand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_profit 
You can't really say something can be too fast for economics to kick in. Economics is always there. There are long and short term changes in supply and demand. A fad increase short term demand and increase prices. If the revenue exceeds production costs (including opportunity costs), the firm will make economic profits. This means more firms will enter the market. Eventually, the quantity produced = quantity demanded and it will reach an equilibrium quantity. Draw your own supply and demand graphs and try to make sense of it. Quantity necessarily increase, price depends on the situation and other factors. In the case of computers, supply did induce its own demand so quantity demanded of computers went way up. The technology changing very fast made making computers very fast--quantity went way up. Such an incredible boom in technology and the increased need of computer in everyday life drove the prices down. Computers nowadays are comparable to water. Water is very essential, but very cheap when you are in a nice city without water shortage. But when you only have a drop of water in the desert or very few computers back then; they are very valuable. It is the decreasing marginal returns you can get out of them. 
In the 80s, cubes popular, there is profit to be made, and firms enter the market. Low input costs of low quality cubes + increase supply = lower costs and even more cubes that may induce demand. Also, the competition of so many firms with little market share lowers the prices. Very similar to the cubing situation of this decade except that we even have new technologies like V-cubes. Prices can continue to fall. Everything indirectly affect everything else. You just have to find the most direct causation and trace everything and make your inferences from there.  I applaud you for thinking of induced demand. 
Remember, economists have many hands, you don't know what goes on on the other hand. If you have a group of economists, they will most likely agree on the most basic facts, then all disagree on why what happened and what to do to fix the problems.

A lot of classes in school aren't very useful in real life. To anyone who hasn't taking AP Economics yet, it is a useful and fun class that doesn't involve a lot of work. I took both micro and macro and combined, they are like 1/3 the work of APUSH. Not much to memorize, just simple logic and understanding of the graphs.

Wow, we got off-topic. Anyway, see my previous on-topic posts. Basically, I agree with Phillip and Tobias.


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## Daniel Wu (Jun 18, 2009)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> This is just like anti-immigration conservatives in the USA. They are so quick to say that no more people should be allowed into the U.S. but they forget that their ancestors were once immigrants. It's the most frustrating thing. Oh, but they're Mexican immigrants, it's different right?



It's anti-ILLEGAL immigration. Immigration is fine.  
/off topic


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## royzabeast (Jun 19, 2009)

Yo guys, how do I edit the poll?


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## Stefan (Jun 19, 2009)

royzabeast said:


> Yo guys, how do I edit the poll?


I don't know whether you can, but you definitely shouldn't. You would invalidate all votes. Just learn from it and make better polls in the future.


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## blade740 (Jun 19, 2009)

I voted yes. If speedcubing got bigger, we'd have to change a lot of things. Competitions (major ones, at least) would be invitation only. We'll be there in a few years at this rate anyway. Even the "world championships" isn't fit for TV at the moment, because anyone who averages 45 seconds can go do their solves. A "world championship" should require its competitors to be world class. With a bigger sport we'd be harder-pressed to enforce that, and I think cubing would be much more interesting to watch (and much more rewarding to those who have the skill and dedication to make it to the top)


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## TioMario (Nov 29, 2009)

Hell no!. It wouldn't be so special if everyone is practising it...


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Nov 29, 2009)

I wouldn't mind. I'm sorta bored with being the only speedsolver around town. Getting in competition would MURDER boredom.


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## Edward (Nov 29, 2009)

~Phoenix Death~ said:


> I wouldn't mind. I'm sorta bored with being the only speedsolver around town. Getting in competition would MURDER boredom.



Took the words right out my mouth. But I still voted no because it would make the hobby a little less special. Like speedstacking.


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Nov 29, 2009)

Yeah. I mean, it's no so often I can go up to someone and say "What's your PB?". How often do YOU get to say that in SPEECH? TO a human being?


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## Thomas09 (Nov 29, 2009)

Hmm... Define "popular" to you. I would like a few more people in my community doing it, but not overdoing it. Like, I wouldn't want morons going "i can solv the rubix cube imma the best". I just want the select few intelligent people.


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## JTW2007 (Nov 29, 2009)

Of all the threads to bump, why this one?


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## Gurplex2 (Nov 29, 2009)

wtf does "making it less special" mean?
of course! it should be more popular!

im lucky, i live less than 10 minutes away from Justin Jaffray and Sarah Strong, and i love them. its nice meeting people who enjoy the same hobbies and i wish it happened more often.

and what the hell is with this special business!? if you want to be special then get cancer and run across canada like *Terry Fox*. he was pretty ****ing special!


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## Forte (Nov 29, 2009)

I <3 Brendon


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## Weston (Nov 29, 2009)

I like it just the way it is.


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## aronpm (Nov 29, 2009)

Australia needs moar cubers. As long as they aren't idiots. (ie. "omfg 70 algs for 2 look last layers thats impossiball to remember")


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## V-te (Nov 29, 2009)

aronpm said:


> Australia needs moar cubers. As long as they aren't idiots. (ie. "omfg 70 algs for 2 look last layers thats *impossiball* to remember")



Lol.


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## Nukoca (Nov 29, 2009)

I'd be cool if more people I know speedsolved, because then I wouldn't be the "cubehead". I still want to be able to impress random strangers, though.


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## cubesolver77 (Dec 2, 2009)

Honeslty i wouldn't want too many more cubers but i would like it to be _somewhat_ common enough that i wouldn't be the only cuber i my area that i have heard of.(Northwestern Pa)


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## SuperNerd (Dec 2, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> NO! NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! I have a general rule in everything life related: the less popular and mainstream, the better. The public has a funny habit of corrupting cool things in a very short amount of time. If cubing became mainstream, I would probably stop, as there is nothing I hate more in life than being associated with what is "cool", "in", or "popular."



EXACTLY, that rule is very related to my views.

If speedcubing became a professional sport, it would be really sad. I can just imagine an arena, and the judge calls someone up and that person races, then if the solve is good everyone throws roses, but for a bad solve they throw empty beer cans 

Does not apply to good grades though


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## fanwuq (Dec 2, 2009)

TioMario said:


> Hell no!. It wouldn't be so special if everyone is practising it...



What!?
Random noob bumps old thread just to say that he doesn't want more random noobs to appear? How ironic.


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## JTW2007 (Dec 2, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> TioMario said:
> 
> 
> > Hell no!. It wouldn't be so special if everyone is practising it...
> ...



Very nice, I must say.


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## xXzaKerXx (Dec 2, 2009)

JTW2007 said:


> NO! NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! I have a general rule in everything life related: the less popular and mainstream, the better. The public has a funny habit of corrupting cool things in a very short amount of time. If cubing became mainstream, I would probably stop, as there is nothing I hate more in life than being associated with what is "cool", "in", or "popular."



I totally agree with you. My school in Malaysia, thre's probably only 10 out of 2000 people who can solve a cube and I think I am the only onewho can BLD in my school ( not blowing my own trumpet here) and when somebody speedsolves they will be like "wow thats so cool can you teach me" and they will start borrwing your cube and not returnig it for days. Besides, cubes are banned in my school.


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## Ranzha (Dec 2, 2009)

I don't actually care.
If we get a few more people into this that AREN'T complete and utter noobs, then that would be great.
I think that if the public were to be introduced, it would be done over many years. This way, we'd recruit moar and the changes would seldom occur. If something grows slowly, people get used to the way things used to be.

--R


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## miniGOINGS (Dec 2, 2009)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> I don't actually care.
> If we get a few more people into this that AREN'T complete and utter noobs, then that would be great.
> I think that if the public were to be introduced, it would be done over many years. This way, we'd recruit moar and the changes would seldom occur. If something grows slowly, people get used to the way things used to be.
> 
> --R



It just occured to me, do you actually not know how to spell more? Like, your grammer is usually amazing, but I don't think I've ever seen you spell it other than "moar".


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## Ranzha (Dec 2, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> Ranzha V. Emodrach said:
> 
> 
> > I don't actually care.
> ...



I do know how to spell it, but I use "moar" moar. That is all.


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## PatrickJameson (Dec 2, 2009)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> I do know how to spell it, but I use "moar" moar. That is all.



Moar should only be used in certain situations that you are quite passionate about, not in everyday forum posts. In a way you might understand better, urdoinitrong.


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## Ranzha (Dec 2, 2009)

PatrickJameson said:


> Ranzha V. Emodrach said:
> 
> 
> > I do know how to spell it, but I use "moar" moar. That is all.
> ...



NO U.
Loljk.
I just use "moar" in place of...that other one.
So yeah.
Also, I am passionate about speedsolving, silly little poppet.

--R


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## Hammond (Dec 2, 2009)

I agree with most of what has already been said.
Less competition and uniqueness.


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## aronpm (Dec 2, 2009)

Correct uses of 'moar':

I need moar pasta!
Post moar cats!

Incorrect uses of 'moar':

Correct English


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## Tim Major (Dec 2, 2009)

No, I want people to stop calling it "gay" and saying "get a life" about it, which would maybe be solved (lol, _get it? Solved_ oh never mind), but I don't want it getting too popular. Maybe a little more, to get some more competitions over here, but not many more.


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## LNZ (Dec 2, 2009)

It is true that only a tiny percentage can solve a 3x3 cube in under 60 seconds. And to be in that group (I have 9 times under 60s now) is a real honor. 

It is even rarer to solve a complete set of cubes (ie from 1x1x1 to 7x7x7). I have also done this too.

But I would like speedcubing to be a little more known and valued here in Australia. Still to this day, there has never been a WCA event held here and being realistic, I can't see it happen for quite a while into the future. And I would like to see an organised Australian cubers group created before I get very old too.

I would like to compete in a WCA event someday in the future. If I did, I'd contest the 2x2, 3x3 and 4x4 events only. I'd drop the 5x5 as my current average (9:00) is too slow and would make me look bad. And by dropping the 5x5, I'd get much more pratice at faster to solve smaller cubes.


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## TheMachanga (Dec 2, 2009)

i actually want cubing to be an olympic sport =P


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## TioMario (Dec 2, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> TioMario said:
> 
> 
> > Hell no!. It wouldn't be so special if everyone is practising it...
> ...



I don't consider myself a "random noob". I'm new at cubing, i'm slow, but everyone was in my position once. I consider my practise seriously. Noobs are annoying vegetable-minded people.

And also, what's the deal with old threads?, are they less interesting because they are old?.

I thought about what I wrote before, and I think that if speedsolving becomes popular, it will be like an occasional fad, people will become bored and forget it. Only the ones who really like it and don't just want to show off with their friends will practise it. So, I'm not afraid of speedsolving's possible popularity, I think it will stay just like as it is now.


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## RDT96 (Dec 2, 2009)

I'm kinda popular cuz I can solve the cube fast. If everyone else could., I'd just be normal.


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## Nukoca (Dec 2, 2009)

RDT96 said:


> I'm kinda popular cuz I can solve the cube fast. If everyone else could., I'd just be normal.



Are you abnormal? It's just a hobby.


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## gpt_kibutz (Dec 2, 2009)

RDT96 said:


> I'm kinda popular cuz I can solve the cube fast. If everyone else could., I'd just be normal.



That's he whole reason why I do not bring my cube to street. Everybodys' mouths fall of I'm just shy


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## Zane_C (Dec 4, 2009)

I would rather it stayed not that popular, cubing is a talent you should be proud of, but if everyone started doing it, it would spoil it.


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## Jason (Dec 4, 2009)

A lot of you don't want cubing to become popular because all of a sudden, you won't be so special and geeky any more. Also a lot of you don't want cubing to become mainstream because all of a sudden you won't be so original and different from the norm any more. A lot of these comments are so pathetic, grow up and do whatever you find cool without having to worry if it's popular or geeky. People who want to be trendy spend loads of time an effort following the norm and fashion. But it sounds like a lot of people here are ready to spend just as much time and effort doing the opposite. How about just going with what you personally find cool and forget about the rest. But if you find things cool just because most other people don't, well grow up and get over you identity crisis. It's not because you can solve a cube fast that you're so special. And if you want people to think you're special, get some counciling. Why should I decide to hate cricket just because a load of upper class farts play it?


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## Innocence (Dec 4, 2009)

What all the other Australians said. Enough for WCA=good, but too many is bad. Sorry about the bad grammar, I'm forcing myself to learn dvorak.


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## endless_akatsuki (Dec 4, 2009)

It'd be pretty awesome if it did indeed become popular. Why the hell would someone stop doing something if it becomes mainstream? That makes no sense. The only good reason I can think of why this may be is that some people like to appear special and talented and crap. It doesn't take any of that to get sub-minute.


If it was more popular, it'd be more fun. And as for those snotty-ass kids, It's good training of self-control.


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## Jason (Dec 4, 2009)

endless_akatsuki said:


> It'd be pretty awesome if it did indeed become popular. Why the hell would someone stop doing something if it becomes mainstream? That makes no sense. The only good reason I can think of why this may be is that some people like to appear special and talented and crap. It doesn't take any of that to get sub-minute.
> 
> 
> If it was more popular, it'd be more fun. And as for those snotty-ass kids, It's good training of self-control.



+1

Yeah, a lot of people seem to be really obsessed about their image. So much effort into maintaining a geeky image. Just as sad as the high-school jocks.



EDIT: Reminds me of the film Fight Club: "You're not your f***ing kakis"


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## gyc6001 (Dec 4, 2009)

I don't mind if speedcubing becomes popular.
My country is still new in speedcubing, other states than mine just have a few only.


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## AndyRoo789 (Dec 4, 2009)

It'd be nice if there were a few more speedcubers, but I wouldn't want it to be over 50% of the population. It wouldn't really be considered a talent if most people did it. 
For example, most people know how to speak English so its not a talent.

I want it to be a unique thing, and I want people to be amazed when they see me do a solve.


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## Jason (Dec 4, 2009)

AndyRoo789 said:


> I want it to be a unique thing, and I want people to be amazed when they see me do a solve.



Oh my God!!!!!!!! Just run around naked in the streets, you'll get loads more amazement


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## Innocence (Dec 5, 2009)

Jason said:


> AndyRoo789 said:
> 
> 
> > I want it to be a unique thing, and I want people to be amazed when they see me do a solve.
> ...



+1.

Although I see where he's coming from, a lot of people play the piano, but to be good at it is still considered a talent.

EDIT: I'm basically trying to say that nobody sub-50 is going to stop being talented in a hurry.


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## Cyrus C. (Dec 5, 2009)

Jason said:


> AndyRoo789 said:
> 
> 
> > I want it to be a unique thing, and I want people to be amazed when they see me do a solve.
> ...



Notice your also being different than the norm in this thread. I take it that's a bad thing?


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## fanwuq (Dec 5, 2009)

Cyrus C. said:


> Jason said:
> 
> 
> > AndyRoo789 said:
> ...



What?!
76 out of 232 is not that abnormal.
His purpose is to share what he truly believes, not for the sake of being abnormal. 
I agree 100% with all Jason's points.


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## ElderKingpin (Dec 5, 2009)

just enough so competitions have better outcomes


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## JTW2007 (Dec 5, 2009)

Seeing as it's an increasingly recurring facet of this discussion, I'd like to express my opinion on speedcubing being regarded as something amazing or special. I disagree. I don't see anything special or amazing about cubing, it's just what observers make it. It's just a puzzle, not different in my mind from something "mundane" like a crossword or fifteen puzzle. The fact that some speedcubers would like to limit its popularity so as to retain their amazing capabilities is even more distressing to me. Yes, I value individualism, but differentiation doesn't have to be attained through perceived superiority. That said, I certainly wouldn't want speedcubing to become mainstream either, but I have alternative reasons for believing so.


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## Muesli (Dec 5, 2009)

Youre all forgetting the fact that 20 years ago Speedcubing WAS mainstream.


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## 4Chan (Dec 5, 2009)

I think I posted in this thread before too.
I want bigger competitions for sure.

The only thing I hate is... nublets.
Not the fact that they're new, but the fact that they lack logic, are lazy, and are pretty immature.

Example of someone who is not a noob: OregonTrail is kinda new, hes not super fast, but his posts have a quality to them.

I'm sure you can find examples of the noobs, they're in abundance.


EDIT: @Musli: The WHOLE 7x7?


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## JTW2007 (Dec 5, 2009)

Cubes=Life said:


> the fact that they lack logic, are lazy, and are pretty immature.



I agree generally. My response to Jason's earlier post (although I completely respect and see the legitimacy of that perspective) would be similar. I find that I strongly dislike many people I'm exposed to for similar qualities to those presented by Cubes=Life (which I do realize sounds fairly hypocritical). These people generally happen to be popular. My justification for not engaging in mainstream activities is one based out of fear of becoming even more similar to those who I dislike.


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## StachuK1992 (Dec 5, 2009)

I'd like the speedsolving population to grow, but I wouldn't want it to change, apart from possibly people being more mature, both newcomers and old-timers. (not so much this)

Competitions would be more frequent.
Competitions would happen closer to home.
Cubers would be nearby, so meet-ups would be fun.

The only bad parts about an enlargening group, imo, would be the fact that you wouldn't get to know people from far-away places as well. One would be too encompassed in the people nearby that they wouldn't have the initiative to go and find new people elsewhere. Also, the forums would not be as much fun. Right now, I feel as though I know people on the forum. If there were a LOT of frequent users, it'd be really hard to keep track of everything, and that would drive me insane.


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## michaellahti (Dec 5, 2009)

Speedcubing became a bit popular at my school for a time, but more a fad among some of my friends and the "popular kids" and other people thought I was just trying to copy them, yet I taught many who knew how to do it.


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Dec 5, 2009)

Lemme reword what I think:
There aren't many speedcubers where I live. I would wish for Speedcubing to be just a little popular. Not so much as where my Teacher is trying to solve it and doesn't notice us all waiting outside of the door.


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## Tyjet66 (May 1, 2010)

I wish it was a little popular, like 1-2 other people per class. 1st and 2nd hour no one knows how. My 3rd hour, 2 people know, I thought one, someone else is interested in learning as well. And in my 4th hour, an exchange student from Denmark does it in just under 2 minutes. I thought him as well. =P

A lot of people are interested in learning but they all say they wont be able to. =/


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## Neo63 (May 1, 2010)

no

/sarcasm


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## CubesOfTheWorld (May 1, 2010)

I don't want it to be so popular, that this is not considered a talent.
I do want more people to respect it, though.


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## Rayne (May 1, 2010)

CubesOfTheWorld said:


> I don't want it to be so popular, that this is not considered a talent.
> I do want more people to respect it, though.


This.


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## Andreaillest (May 1, 2010)

Sure, why not. I don't really care anyway.


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## jackdexter75 (May 1, 2010)

The only reason i'd like to have more people is because then maybe I could go to a competition in my area. But I like the idea of being one of the few who speedcube under 20 sec and such.


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## zachtastic (May 1, 2010)

*Speed*cubing should be popularized.
More awareness could bring in new minds to make a contribution to speedcubing. Think new methods, techniques, etc. Competitions could expand to areas that do not currently hold comps. Massive popularity would result in In-store diy kits, chinese cubes, basically one could simply stop by wal-mart and buy an F-II for example. It wouldn't be a bad thing. If "stupid people" tried to jump on the bandwagon they wouldn't get anywhere because they're well, stupid people, they would still continue to marvel at faster solvers, so all insecure people afraid of losing their talent to "stupid people" can rest easy.


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## imbatt (May 1, 2010)

I hate it when some stupid kids at my school, holding the 0,6$ chinese cube , trying to be cool


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## Nestor (Jul 29, 2010)

I've been cubing since January, and I'm just starting to know the workings of the cubing community so my opinion might not count to many. Nevertheles here comes the wall of text:

I struggle to find people who actually enjoy cubing, and not just learn to solve it and then loose interest. So far I've teached about 7 people how to solve it, and only ones shows interest in becoming serious in speedcubing. Besides these, I've met 3 people who can solve it and they are all happy with just been able to do so. I'm not a good cuber at all (30" PB), and part of it is that there isn't much motivation in spending 7 months playing with a plastic toy on your own alone at home. A larger community would mean more cubers, and I'm up for that.


As a comparison take rollerblading. I started rollerblading in 1995, during the initial blading boom and watched as the sport grew excesivelly large, then collapsed on its own premature success. Over the years, our local skating community fell from thousands to eventually a dozen skaters and during the past 10 years, I tried to keep the sport alive in our country by bringing new people in and warning old friends that if we didn't drop the "exclusive group" mentallity, our sport would die. Sure, lots of the newbies I brought to the group where #[email protected]#, but for every 5 that where not serious like us, one shinned and became great. Spending a decade skating with the same people becomes a little monotonous and after I was forced to quit due to permanent ankle injury 2years ago, the group slowly fell appart and serious rollerblading is now dead in our country.

I'm just saying, right now most of the old cubers might hate the influx of newbies that are not in synch with the community's way of being, but just as cubing faded during the 90s the current boom will too come to an end and the growing trend will stop. The more people get hooked now, the more will continue to cube 10 years from now and trust me, you'll wish everyone would have been more open now.

... or maybe I'm just a newbie... and my opinion is even more irrelevant since I'm just bitter because I have no one to cube with.. 

..who knows.


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## theace (Jul 30, 2010)

I have mixed opinions, really...

You see, if cubing became a popular sport in India, we would have more competitions and maybe better prizes. Funding for tournaments wouldn't be too much of an issue. Good cubers could set up classes and earn a little.

On the flip-side, people like me wouldn't really be considered as geniuses and the uniqueness of the skill will be lost. Once something gets too common, people lose respect for it. You'd have people watching you and saying Meh... I know a ton of people who do it in half the time. This can be really demoralizing for beginners.


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## MrTimCube (Sep 30, 2010)

i voted no.
because if it grows, it becomes a "cool thing" to do, and everyone does it then for like 3 months, and then it becomes stupid to them. and then they call you stupid because you are still doing that thing that was "in" like 3 months ago.
and i like to be the only one in my class to solve the cube!


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