# What do you want from a tournament?



## Erik (Jun 17, 2008)

Hey all,
I'm checking with a few people and I'd like to know your opinion.
What are the things that you look for in a tournament? Name examples.
Also what are the annoying things about tournaments? Describe the stuff that you maybe get irritated about or things that hold you from coming to certain competitions (distance, slow scrambling, not the events you'd like etc.)


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jun 17, 2008)

I hate: bad location (it can't be outside during the summer, for example), noob spectators (don't you love it when EVERYONE has their cameras on you during something that requires high precision like multi?), noob scramblers (there's no reason to have only one person scrambling on some events!), few events (I'm not going to Taiwan Summer because it doesn't have enough events), and other minor minor stuff.

I like: smoothly-ran comps, fast competitors (I like seeing WRs ), winning )).


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## CharlieCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

i do not like: 

travelling too far, i don't mind getting a plane and the competition is there, but having to get more buses/trains after you've landed is kinda annoying.

HEAT! for some reason it has always been unbearable hot in the venues i've been to

i do like: 

lots of different events, knowing that other people also enjoy cubing!, seeing a new city/country at the same time as the comp and just... cubing i suppose


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## pcharles93 (Jun 17, 2008)

I've only been to one competition so far and the venue was small and barely any room was there except for the theater seats. I'd prefer competitions to be in a high school gym because it's a big open space and there are almost always big double doors you can open to get fresh air. There are even bleachers if you want to lounge around and relax. It would help if a few cubers taught their parents or friends how to judge solves.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 17, 2008)

No offense to the other competitions I've been to - they've all been very well-run, I think - but my favorite of the ones I've been to so far is probably Chattahoochee (well, except for my BLD performance, but that's my problem). Things I loved about Chattahoochee:

1. Huge space - it's really helpful and nice for competitors to be able to spread out and take up lots of table space. It was done in a large high school cafeteria, so there were tons of tables and chairs for everyone. And it was very well lit. And the temperature was very comfortable.

2. Lots of stackmats - I can't remember exactly, but it seems like there were at least 10. The only drawback to this competition was that they were gen 1 stackmats, which cost me a DNF in 3x3x3 speed and several seconds on a 3x3x3 BLD. But gen 2 stackmats are required now, so that's no longer an issue.

3. Lots of judges - Andrew lined up almost too many judges, so there was never a shortage. The schedule was always under complete control with never any problems at all.

4. Safe location - I have kids, and it felt really safe being at a nice suburban high school during the daytime.

Seriously, the other competitions I've been to were nice as well, but Chattahoochee was just amazingly well-run, in my opinion.

I haven't had to do one outside before; I'm a little worried about the US Nationals and Open this year - I hope it's not too hot. I don't like cubing in heat. And Eastsheens lock up more in heat (at least mine do - maybe they wouldn't if I lubed them?).

Oh, and of course, I will always prefer a competition that has big cubes BLD. The more attempts the better.


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## CharlieCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

pcharles93 said:


> ..It would help if a few cubers taught their parents...



my mother would never ever be able to do that. she thinks scrambling consists of repeating L2 R2 several times  getting parents to scramble/judge is a good idea though!


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## Joël (Jun 17, 2008)

What I like is:

- Good *competition circumstances*. Good lighting, good airconditioning, not too warm, not too cold. WC'05 was a bit too hot for me. Sometimes the circumstances are a bit distracting.
- What I find VERY anoying is that on some competitions, competitors don't have a place to sit. I would prefer having tables at a normal height to sit at, as an option besides standing behind a big cube or other high table (sitting on a stool behind those big cubes is not ideal).
- A good *location*. A big city is usually ok, but if it's not in a city: It's important that there are nice *restaurants* and *good hotels* and other places to go. I think in Poland, the location was exelent. 
- *Good judges*. They don't have to be female & underaged per se, but that is a plus (), but good judges who know the rules in most common cases would be nice. I hate it when there is a timer mall function, and they have to call the main judge because they don't know what to do, or if even the main judge barely knows what to do in that situation. 
- Optional: A good t-shirt or other *souvenir* is always good. Like the t-shirts we had in Madrid Open and Polish Open, or the bags you get at WC's. Of course, I understand that every competition has a limited budget, so understandably, this can't always be the case.
- Tight *schedule*: I hate it when there are large groups. I like it when there is little time between each attempt. Preferably no BLD on sunday first thing in the morning. I also like it when there is some extra time in the evenings to visit some places in the city. In Madrid for example, I liked the fact that the competition ended pretty early in the afternoon, and there was still time to go downtown Madrid.
- I like it when Erik, Rama, Lars, Dennis and Arnoud are there. 
- I dislike it when Kai is not there .
- I appreciate the absence of certain other cubers, whose names I will not mention.
- I like afterparty's with free wine.
- I like afterparty's with free beer.


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## pcharles93 (Jun 17, 2008)

This is optional as it might never happen. I don't ever want to have an intimidating judge. I wouldn't like to walk up to a solve table and see a 6'0," 300-pound man covered in tattoos with a full beard, leather jacket, and a biker's helmet with a big spike coming out of it. So, if any of your parents are like that, try not to bring them to any competitions in southwestern Ohio.

What about awards for new competitors? Medals or certificates for top 3 fastest first timers would be cool. That way it wouldn't be just extremely fast cubers showing up but also newer cubers competing for recognition.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jun 17, 2008)

Joël said:


> - *Good judges*. They don't have to be female & underaged per se, but that is a plus ()



Certainly a plus!


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## Bryan (Jun 17, 2008)

I juswant a chance to compete and have the results recorded in the WCA database. Yeah, if there's only 3 events, that's kind of disappointing, but I'd probably still go.

Good judges are nice, but as long as stuff is handled fine, even an inexperienced one isn't a problem. At the US Open, I did a OH solve and the judge recorded the time, picked up the cube, turned around and scrambled it, and then placed it in front of me for my next turn. I simply informed him that he had to go used the set of approved scrambles.

I don't expect to go to a tournament and pay a small entrance fee and expect to have breakfast and lunch provided, along with memorabilia, and to have a well processed machine. Honestly, I wouldn't mind paying a $50 registration fee if there was a bunch of entertainment, but I doubt there would be a tournament like that soon.


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## Doudou (Jun 17, 2008)

I like going to a closed competition because I can laugh during hours just by seeing reactions on the forum...

More seriously, 
I like competitions :
where it's not too complicated to go (big cities, ...).
with a well-chosen date
with a lot of rounds of 3x3
with my girlfriend
with prizes, posters and t-shirts
with Jean
which I won


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## Lofty (Jun 17, 2008)

I would like a competition with a close location. I have been cubing for over a year and there has been one competition in my state and only one other in the state up being a 7 hour drive...


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## Kian (Jun 17, 2008)

i'd say the worst things, from a strictly cubing stand point, are when a competition has bad lighting or is warm. it can be more difficult in those conditions. 

i've been lucky enough to go to a number of great competitions, and i think the best is when there are enough judges and people willing to scramble. having parents help out is essential!


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## ExoCorsair (Jun 17, 2008)

Likes:
- Nice lighting.
- Well-organized.
- Lots of events.
- Wi-fi at the venue.
- Free food.

Dislikes:
- People showing up without pre-registering (Princeton, anyone?).
- Traveling more than 3 hours to get to venue.
- Prizes for only first placers.
- Not having enough scramblers.
- Crappy scrambles.


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## Stefan (Jun 17, 2008)

Erik said:


> What are the things that you look for in a tournament? Name examples.


Friends
Mystery events



Erik said:


> Also what are the annoying things about tournaments?


Smoke
Bulky trophies (unless they don't tell what they're for, so I feel ok selling them)



Bryan said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't mind paying a $50 registration fee if there was a bunch of entertainment, but I doubt there would be a tournament like that soon.


Youtube loves cubing, we should ask them to sponsor a "Week of Cubing" festival.


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## Rama (Jun 17, 2008)

I don't like it when:
-the lighting is bad.
-it's too cold.
-the competition is in the middle of nowhere, unless it's a small one day competition.
-there is a scary/not so fast song is played while solving (Polish Open). 

I like it when:
-it's warm, because lubed cubes get better when it's warm, the silicone gets more liquid and my hands stays warm. At the Benelux Open I cubed Ryan Patricio style... with my jacket on.
-the judges know what to do and do everything by the ''book''.
-I meet new people, I can immediatly say that I don't care that the EC is open.
-I at least share the hotel room with Erik, the Polish I felt so lonely. 

Winning, losing, who cares, it's all about the good conditions during and around the competition.


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## HelloiamChow (Jun 17, 2008)

I like it when...
...there are fast scramblers, at the competitions I've been to the scrambling for big cubes took far, far too long. 
...food is available at the venue. I don't mind paying, but I wouldn't say no to free food!
...cubes and stickers are available at the venue.
...there is adequate lighting and a nice temperature. Unless it's really really nice outside, I prefer indoor competitions.
...the judges can actually discriminate between +2's and not +2's. It's annoying to have to call the main judge over everytime.
...there are attractive judges. Seriously. It lowers times.
...meeting new people. It was awesome meeting all the people I've met over the three competitions I've been to. 
...there is a field nearby the venue for some relaxing and frisbee.(P.S. Who's up for some frisbee fun at nationals, I'll have a light up frisbee that we can play at night.)

Most importantly, I love being there with my friends and having fun. 

I don't like it when...
...there aren't enough judges.
...there aren't enough stackmats.
...there isn't somewhere I can lay flat at. Thank god for those chairs at Stetson.

Yeah, I don't have too many complaints. And I'm totally serious about frisbee at nationals.


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## icke (Jun 17, 2008)

i only went to the german open. i liked it. the common events where hold at one day. i cant complain about the scrambling time or the judges. foot was free and the competition run very smooth. i didnt like the location. i live in berlin and i would like to have one competition here as well.

edit: i wonted to buy a shirt but there was non available


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## Erik (Jun 17, 2008)

Thx for the reactions so far guys, this will help in a way you'll see soon (hopefully).
keep em coming if you like!


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## MistArts (Jun 17, 2008)

ExoCorsair said:


> Likes:
> - Free food.
> 
> 
> Aw yes... the food.


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## hdskull (Jun 18, 2008)

- Lighting, is very important, I remember at DSC 2008 the light was switched off for like a second. Wth? Luckily I wasn't solving at the time.

- Good spectators, I HATE FLASH PHOTOGRAPHY, especially on a speedsolve, a flash can mess up your times.

- Good participants, at competitions, sometimes a name needs to be called 10 times before the person in the room hears it, if you're using the restroom, that's different. Maybe a mic would help. Maybe participants who knows their ability? I'm not trying to discourage cubers on the rise, but if a OH solve is like 5-6 mins long, maybe you should try again next time when you're 1-2 mins (or at least 2-3)? Sometimes people get frustrated. For BLD if you're still memorizing at 9 mins, then I don't think you should be competing, let the judge, spend time on someone else. However, slow 2H solves don't bother me, because those people are just entering the Cube world, and it's nice seeing them compete.

- More scramblers, it's not just faster, it's also easier on that one scrambler.

- A certificate for top 3 finishers, how much can a piece of paper cost?

- Varying events, sometimes, some events are never held close by, I guess this is due to popularity of the main events, but occasionally a side event would be nice (Magic takes like a min for each competitor).


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## sam (Jun 18, 2008)

Like:
-Indoor. (i didn't feel comfortable in the windy atmosphere of captains cove)
-good lighting. (just like everyone else)
-good cubers. 
-T-Perming ALL of Bob's cubes. As of now i expect bob to be at every competition i ever attend in my life. Bob Burton does not follow cubing, Cubing follows Bob Burton.



Dislikes:
-Children who are annoying: There are some children that are just too annoying and keep backpacks on during the whole competition and only get in your way during the serious parts. Others are fine who just compete and dont steal and/or break things.
-Wind.
-Bob giving everyone parities on their cubes (even they keychain!! XD)
-Soccer moms (Football moms in europe)
-Having a judge tell me to stop during the first 5 seconds of my solve and getting a 24 because of it.


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## masterofthebass (Jun 18, 2008)

Sam, the reason why Bob put parities on your cubes, is because you decided that N perms on all of Bob's puzzles = fun. If you were to stop doing that, then maybe he'll stop with parities


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## JBCM627 (Jun 18, 2008)

Likes:
*Good lighting - by this, I mean no or minimal shadows. Bright stage lights can be bad.
*Good temperature - stuffy & hot = bad, especially for workers 
*Adequate workers - scramblers, judges, etc. Woot, I got a 4.59 18 move scramble at Cincy...
*Nearby food - yummy in my tummy
*Public and spacious venue - Schools and gyms are great rooms, especially since they usually come free, but are not very public. A large open room able to be customly arranged at a public venue would be ideal, I think. Also, at Cincinnati, we had a lot of people stop by who knew nothing about cubing; I'd also recommend brochures or something with extra info for these people (they often asked for something like this).
*Sound system - no megaphone required
*Non-cube related mystery events - like the shock game at SF Winter 07. No, I didn't participate.
*Miscelaneous awards - for odd but cool things
*After party - essential to a good competition. Cubing and more food.

Dislikes:
*Theft or missing cubes - like my best 3x3 gone along with some shock oil 
*Competitions that drag on - split them into 2 days if need be
*Distractions
*Bad solves


@sam, we could totally apply any chuck norris joke to Bob in some way... Edit: or Frank Morris...


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## Hadley4000 (Jun 18, 2008)

I've only been to two, but here it goes.

Easy to find. I got so freaking lost trying to get to the Stetson tournament. 

Cubers as scramblers. At Stetson, there were scramblers who only learned the notation the day of, or night before, so it took a while.

Cubes/t-shirts to buy. I love souvenirs. 

But, the most important thing of all. FUN!!! Had that at both of them


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## Ethan Rosen (Jun 18, 2008)

likes:

Good temperature
Good lighting
Other good conditions
-In Captains cove the venue was outside. The only bad part about this was that the wind got very aggravating. 

wi-fi

A nice amount of people. The only example I have of where there were too many people was Princeton. I just felt that there were way too many people for that room/time. 

I love how while they are called competitions, they are closer to gatherings with a bit of competition

Pretty much everything about competitions

dislikes:

Judges: On 3x3 there are often way too few judges at first. This also happens on 2x2 and 4x4, but not as severely. A few parents/family/friends or scramble groups can make this go much faster. 

Judges: Judges who leave the scorecard on the solve table or completely disregard something else that's important= chaos!

People who are a bit too competitive. I've never seen this, but I've heard stories.

Competitive parents. Once again, I've only heard stories, but I always dislike things like this.

Spectators: I don't mind most spectators, but some of them are annoying. There isn't much we can do about this, but the spectators who are like "zomg rubik's cubes I saw a guy solve with his feet and my friend solved one blindfolded in 15 seconds but he forgot how" get very aggravating.

The amount of times that some people go around asking if people are selling magics.


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## pcharles93 (Jun 18, 2008)

Ethan Rosen said:


> dislikes:
> 
> People who are a bit too competitive. I've never seen this, but I've heard stories.
> 
> ...



Can you pm me a few stories of overcompetitiveness?<-btw Is that a word? I have a simple solution to keep annoying spectators away. Before you let them into the venue, you show them a sub-20 solve and if they pee themselves, there is no way they're setting foot near a competition.


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## hdskull (Jun 18, 2008)

pcharles93 said:


> Before you let them into the venue, you show them a sub-20 solve and if they pee themselves, there is no way they're setting foot near a competition.



Read what I wrote about competitors.


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## Joël (Jun 18, 2008)

hdskull said:


> - A certificate for top 3 finishers, how much can a piece of paper cost?



To be quite honest, that's the reason I can't care less about certificates or diploma's. It's just a piece of paper... Personally, I would not mind if there are no certificates, especially for side events.


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## cmhardw (Jun 18, 2008)

likes:
1) Meeting new people / meeting old friends
2) Good lighting
3) Lots of judges to keep the timer's full
4) Any competition that has big cube BLD as an event ;-)
5) Mystery events (ball in cup, speed shoe-solving (lace tying), etc.)
6) Memorabilia to take home (certificates, medals, backpacks, t-shirts, etc.)
7) near cheap hotels (yes I'm cheap like that)
8) a big spectator area where people can watch and cubers can get together and hang out when not solving/competing.
9) Competitions with a well secluded competitor's area, away from the spectators. As much as I like meeting people, especially at competitions, when I'm solving I probably want to concentrate about my solving and not talk to people about how they used to peel the stickers. 

dis-likes:

1) Big cube BLD judges who don't know the regulations / or don't know how to correctly operate the stackmat vs. stopwatch timing issue for big cubes.
- at World's '07 for the 4x4x4 BLD event, after my first solve (the round was best of 2) I was told by my judge that I may leave.
- Judges who want to stop the stopwatch when the stackmat shuts off if the rules require you should time with both (you're likely to get sub-10 minutes, but might not). I've seen this happen to other big cube BLD competitors numerous times while I was not solving. I hate describing the timing rules to the judge while the competitor is solving, it must be distracting.
- I hate describing the timing rules to the judge while *I* am solving, this happened to me at G-WIZ 2006. This is *very* distracting.

2) Judges who do not know the procedures well
- I find it frustrating when the judge of a speedsolve round does not know that you can stop the inspection period early. I ignore them, when (while I am solving) they tell me to stop (at 15 seconds). After the solve I explain about this rule.

3) Judges who think a BLD solve is a speed solve and tell you to stop after 15 seconds inspection.

For the above reasons I always try to help out with judging when I go to a competition. At risk of being that annoying nagging guy I also try to correct other judges if I see them do something they shouldn't be doing.

For me the dis-likes are very minor compared to the likes. I plan on going to many more competitions in the future, because of all the things in the "likes" list.

Chris


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 18, 2008)

cmhardw said:


> I hate describing the timing rules to the judge while the competitor is solving, it must be distracting.



This actually happened at the VA Open, Chris. You were describing the timing rules to the judge who was judging me. I think I was blindfolded at the time in the solving phase. And yes, it was a bit distracting. But I must say, Chris, that I am very thankful you did it! Although I was a little distracted, I was very relaxed and able to concentrate after you were done explaining, because I knew the judge actually understood the rules at that point. So thank you Chris for doing that for me!



cmhardw said:


> 3) Judges who think a BLD solve is a speed solve and tell you to stop after 15 seconds inspection.


That's funny! But only because it's never happened to me; I can see where that would be rather upsetting.


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## joey (Jun 18, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> cmhardw said:
> 
> 
> > 3) Judges who think a BLD solve is a speed solve and tell you to stop after 15 seconds inspection.
> ...


Hopefully that won't bother me for much longer


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 18, 2008)

joey said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > cmhardw said:
> ...


I was thinking that; at the Virginia Open I saw Rowe finish memorizing one attempt fast enough that he would have simply complied with the judge's request. It's a pity the cube exploded in a mega-pop a few seconds later.

Joey, are you ever going to try doing a BLD solve for a regular 3x3x3 round (maybe on the fifth solve of a preliminary round)? You could pull the blindfold on before starting the timer...


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## joey (Jun 18, 2008)

I've tried 2x2 BLD before in comp, so why not 
(I need to get better memo, I'm working on that!)


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## genwin (Jun 18, 2008)

as side events maybe?? a face-off/challenge between finalist instead of the normal individual timed solves.. or a marathon where 5 cubes will be solved consecutively again as a face-off...


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## Sin-H (Jun 18, 2008)

Joël said:


> What I like is:
> 
> - Good *competition circumstances*. Good lighting, good airconditioning, not too warm, not too cold. WC'05 was a bit too hot for me. Sometimes the circumstances are a bit distracting.
> - What I find VERY anoying is that on some competitions, competitors don't have a place to sit. I would prefer having tables at a normal height to sit at, as an option besides standing behind a big cube or other high table (sitting on a stool behind those big cubes is not ideal).
> ...




EXACTLY!!! + I also like it when Doudou is there
(I haven't met Erik, Dennis and Kai yet, but I hope that I will )

Basically, it's just all about cubing, cubing and meeting other cubers 
Ah and the results in the official world rankings.
(These three basic circumstances are provided in any WCA competition anyway)


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## fanwuq (Jun 18, 2008)

joey said:


> I've tried 2x2 BLD before in comp, so why not
> (I need to get better memo, I'm working on that!)



I should seriously do that! I've actually gotten a sub-15 memo like on my 30th try at this. It won't be long before I average at 15s memo.
I suck at 2x2 anyway (9seconds average) I don't care.


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## Dene (Jun 18, 2008)

cmhardw said:


> dis-likes:
> - I hate describing the timing rules to the judge while the competitor is solving, it must be distracting.
> - I hate describing the timing rules to the judge while *I* am solving, this happened to me at G-WIZ 2006. This is *very* distracting.
> 
> ...



I know I shouldn't laugh, but man, that's funny >.<


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## Alexander (Jun 19, 2008)

Joël said:


> hdskull said:
> 
> 
> > - A certificate for top 3 finishers, how much can a piece of paper cost?
> ...




certificates or diploma's or even trophy has to be there for 1st to 3rd place also for side events. You put a lot of time in some of the side events and in the end ok you dont good thats the one and thank you for comming. So to giv something is nice


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## hdskull (Jun 22, 2008)

Joël said:


> hdskull said:
> 
> 
> > - A certificate for top 3 finishers, how much can a piece of paper cost?
> ...




Do you not want anything for winning ?


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## Derrick Eide17 (Jun 22, 2008)

What i like: EVERYTHING

What i dislike: LOCATION. i never have any money and no matter where the comp is its always way too much for me cause i totally cant travel not even like once a year. so any competition even the slightest away from me (every competition) i can never make it to.      *cries*


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## pcharles93 (Jun 22, 2008)

hdskull said:


> Joël said:
> 
> 
> > hdskull said:
> ...



Maybe he's no good at side events or any main events for that matter.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 22, 2008)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> What i like: EVERYTHING
> 
> What i dislike: LOCATION. i never have any money and no matter where the comp is its always way too much for me cause i totally cant travel not even like once a year. so any competition even the slightest away from me (every competition) i can never make it to.      *cries*



You've been to 3 competitions. How did you get there?

I can't get to competitions as much as I'd like either; it's expensive going very far when I'm bringing my whole family.

Where exactly do you live, Derrick? Nunavut?


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## Kenneth (Jun 22, 2008)

Events, many of them. I like events I can win (Master, Pyra), I like events I will loose (5x5x5), events only me and a few others do = unofficial ones like Snake and I also like events that I do not do (BLD).

Scramblers who knows how to do the job (I was trying to scramble Clock, which I newer did before (have no one myself), After 3 tries and the same number of messing up's, asking someone who knows how to solve it and retry, took some 15 minutes, then I gave up, from now on I only scramble cubic puzzles, no Clock, no Mega and no Sq-1  )

Judges, anyone can judge but for some reason many seems to rather not, aspecially first timers (maybe they are a little shy?)

In 2-day comps I like it when the venue is available all night because that time can be used to do odd events.


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## Derrick Eide17 (Jun 23, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> Derrick Eide17 said:
> 
> 
> > What i like: EVERYTHING
> ...



Well first off only my first comp was because a friend split with me who i asked numerous times after and they didnt want to again. so i guess they hate me or something.

and the other 2 competitions i had to go through HELL just to get to, and beg my mom, and scavenge ANY money i could and even perform at a church's family day event just to raise money for msyelf and they were friggin only 3 hours away from me! imagine any other comp what i would have to do just to get there? and seeing as how im dirt poor i dont see it ever happening. and btw i live in the crappiest suckiest poorest place you can imagine that EVERYTIME i tell someone where i live they say... WHERE THE HELL IS THAT? which i bet it will be leaving u saying that too. okay here it goes....

I live in Brockville.


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## AvGalen (Jun 23, 2008)

Where The Hell Is That?


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 23, 2008)

Derrick Eide17 said:


> I live in Brockville.



Brockville Ontario? "City of the 1000 Islands?" (Hey, I can Google!) Why, your city's population is close to 25,000! You should be able to train enough cubers for a full competition without needing any outsiders. Maybe you can get a room at the library (you apparently have one!) for free to hold a competition. Looks to me like you should have no problem at all! 

But seriously, if you really wanted to badly enough, you could probably do all of this, without even having any money. I know it would be hard, but you probably could do it if you really wanted to.

It could be worse - like I said, you could live in Nunavut. Then I could understand your not being able to hold a competition locally - it might be hard to find enough people nearby to teach cubing to so you could have a competition. But with 25,000 to choose from? Should be NO PROBLEM!


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## Dene (Jun 24, 2008)

Lol, there's almost that many people just at university >.<


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