# Primary/original plastic cubes vs black and white plastic



## Back2square1 (Jan 11, 2014)

I've been searching around on primary plastic cubes, but they do not seem to be well-known or well-used. I have also heard a rumor about them that I found interesting. 

Are original plastic cubes actually better quality plastic than the equivalent black or white versions? Could that really make them turn better?

I own various black/white cubes but have never turned a primary one, can anyone shed some light on this?

Less importantly, I may be missing something, but why are primary cubes so uncommon compared to black and white? Are they just not popular enough? I mean, you'd think they would be the easiest to produce if they are legitimately the original color wouldn't you? And yet, they appear mainly as limited editions or on widely used cubes. Thoughts?


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## KonKaii (Jan 11, 2014)

I am a die-hard primary cube fan....I feel that it contrasts well with sticker shades - esp. white.

Performance wise I think the only reason why someone might think that primary is a "better" quality is because dying the plastic will harden it a bit (if I recall). It really shouldn't make a feeling difference though.


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## windhero (Jan 11, 2014)

Primary cubes turn just as well as black/white ones. Not better.

The difference is with lookahead; I think that white cubes give a good contrast, but the plastic is "too bright" and offputting. Black plastic does not give a good contrast but its easier to look at. Primary plastic is easy to look at and gives a great contrast, it has the benefit of both black and white plastic. Much like pretty much anything related to cubing, this is about personal preference in the end so dont take my word for it.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2014)

windhero said:


> Black plastic does not give a good contrast but its easier to look at.


What do you mean by contrast?


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## windhero (Jan 11, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> What do you mean by contrast?


Color contrast. Black plastic "eats off" some of the brightness of half bright stickers (or any other) because of the dark background.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 11, 2014)

windhero said:


> Color contrast. Black plastic "eats off" some of the brightness of half bright stickers (or any other) because of the dark background.



This is definitely true. I have a primary and a black weilong, both with stock stickers, and putting them next to each other the stickers on the primary cube seem brighter. It's an optical illusion, due to the 'threshold' background colour that your mind sets, but still. 

With some cubes (I think the original shuang ren was guilty of this) the stickers are so thin the plastic colour shows through, and some colours (especially the red and orange on the SR) become dull.

As primary plastic is undyed, this doesn't affect primary cubes.

Using both Weilongs alongside each other, I have to say that there's no noticeable difference in the feel or quality of the plastic. I don't believe dying the plastic has any discernable effect. 

Personally, I think there's more difference between different batches of cubes (i.e. plastic used) than there is between pre and post-dying.

I think primary cubes look great, and provide a good contrast, even with white stickers (some people don't like white stickers on WHITE cubes). This contrast helps lookahead, but I think any other magical effects reported for primary cubes are just placebos.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2014)

windhero said:


> Color contrast. Black plastic "eats off" some of the brightness of half bright stickers (or any other) because of the dark background.


Hmm, not sure why that would be the case, unless you mean when the stickers are slightly translucent. If they are fully opaque I would imagine they would look brighter against a surrounding black colour - in other words, better contrast with black. I use Cubesmith and they seem thick and dense enough. 

Anyway, I have only black cubes, and am now curious enough to order a primary and see what difference it makes for me.


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## LarryLunchmeat (Jan 11, 2014)

Sure, they add dye to black and white cubes, but I can't see why this would hinder performance. 

As for the sticker colours..If I put the exact same sticker shades on a black cube and a white cube, the shades look noticably brighter on the white cube.


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## windhero (Jan 11, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Hmm, not sure why that would be the case, unless you mean when the stickers are slightly translucent. If they are fully opaque I would imagine they would look brighter against a surrounding black colour - in other words, better contrast with black. I use Cubesmith and they seem thick and dense enough.
> 
> Anyway, I have only black cubes, and am now curious enough to order a primary and see what difference it makes for me.



I own black, white and primary colour cubes and use thecubicle custom stickers that are not translucent. There is a difference. Black shows the contrast the worst, white is "in your face" and primary is the perfect balance for me. The neutral tone of the primary color plastic gives more space for the sticker colors. It does not overpower them like black/white.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2014)

It sounds like an optical illusion and therefore hard to imagine if you haven't seen it yourself. I'll get a primary and try it out.


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## windhero (Jan 11, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> It sounds like an optical illusion and therefore hard to imagine if you haven't seen it yourself. I'll get a primary and try it out.



Not an illusion if you think about it. Black is the color that absorbs all light, that is what creates the color. White on the other hand reflects all light. Milky plastic is a neutral color that does neither. The neutrality of the color makes stickers pop up better.

Just my 2 cents.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2014)

windhero said:


> Not an illusion if you think about it. Black is the color that absorbs all light, that is what creates the color. White on the other hand reflects all light. Milky plastic is a neutral color that does neither. The neutrality of the color makes stickers pop up better.


That doesn't make sense. Milky is a colour too, somewhere between white and black. It still reflects some light otherwise you wouldn't see it. Probably the effect you describe would be similar for grey plastic. I buy the idea that different colour plastic can affect sticker colour perception, and a neutral colour would be better, but I don't buy the idea that there's anything particularly special about milky colour. Currently I think of black as maximum neutral given that it has no colour at all, and find it hard to imagine that I would find milky more neutral, but am interested to give it a try and willing to be convinced by my own eyes.


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## pipkiksass (Jan 11, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> That doesn't make sense. Milky is a colour too, somewhere between white and black. It still reflects some light otherwise you wouldn't see it. Probably the effect you describe would be similar for grey plastic. I buy the idea that different colour plastic can affect sticker colour perception, and a neutral colour would be better, but I don't buy the idea that there's anything particularly special about milky colour. Currently I think of black as maximum neutral given that it has no colour at all, and find it hard to imagine that I would find milky more neutral, but am interested to give it a try and willing to be convinced by my own eyes.



Lateral inhibition is the name of this particular optical illusion, btw. It's related to contrast, but more specifically how neighbouring cells compensate for the difference between adjacent colours.

That said, I think there's a slightly better contrast, on average, between primary and the 6 'standard' cube colours. While black contrasts better with green, yellow, and white; white contrasts better with red, blue, and orange. Primary is a happy medium between these two.

Perhaps.

Or maybe I'm clutching at straws, trying to rationalise something which I've already said is mainly psychological and placebic!?


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2014)

If these theories were true, it would still probably hold better for some mid-grey shade than for milky. 

What does certainly make a difference is contrasts between stickers, as everyone knows. For example, I struggle with white versus the fluoro yellow used in half bright sets, especially in low light. With stickers, I need to see them, and need very clear differences between shades. With plastic, I don't want to see it at all. I don't care about the plastic. Whether contrast between plastic and stickers matters is something that never occurred to me before. I have always bought black because it logically seems to have least chance of standing out, regardless of stickers.

Another thought regarding grey: graphic design software is designed to be neutral and allow the colours of the designs to be viewed with least distortion of perception, and most graphic design software seems to favour a dark grey background.


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## RubiksJake12 (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm pretty sure it's all placebo. Same question as "which color is faster, white or black?".


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2014)

RubiksJake12 said:


> I'm pretty sure it's all placebo. Same question as "which color is faster, white or black?".


Lighting and colours certainly have an effect on cubing performance, even if it's different for different people.


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## RubiksJake12 (Jan 11, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> Lighting and colours certainly have an effect on cubing performance, even if it's different for different people.



I guess you're right. I mean let's assume, for argument's sake, that each color has literally nothing to do with actual physical performance (as I think most of us could agree on to a certain degree anyway). The way that we perceive the colors and the mental decisions we have already made about each color (whether we consciously realize it or not) could have an affect on the performance of the cube _only relative to ourselves_. 

It's the same idea as a hypochondriac essentially. If someone truly believes that black cubes feel different or are better, then that person might physically perform better with black cubes because he or she believes they are superior despite the fact that they aren't. 

For example I only use black cubes. I actually think white cubes look nicer, but when I took some averages with black vs. white cubes, all of my black cube averages were better. This might have caused me to think that black cubes are better, or that I simply perform better with black cubes, making it nearly impossible for me to switch to white.


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## mark49152 (Jan 11, 2014)

I think these are two separate phenomena. Yes, plastic colour could be the basis of beliefs about one's performance that become self-fulfilling due to psychological effects; but then so could lots of other things, like stickers, tension, lube, cube type, temperature, day of the week, or what colour socks the cuber is wearing.

Setting psychological factors aside, we all know how important recognition is to performance, and nobody questions whether sticker colours can help or hinder recognition. It's not implausible that plastic colour could affect visual perception of the sticker colours, in which case it could also impact performance in the same way that applying a different set of stickers could. The cuber might also gain some psychological advantage from using their preferred colour, but at least it's plausible that they are right, unlike psychological advantage gained from wearing one's lucky socks.

My only scepticism on the topic is about whether milky is the "ideal" colour. Primary cubes were introduced AFAIK because people believed the plastic felt better, and I suspect that if the motive had been to market cubes on the basis that the plastic colour is the best for colour perception of stickers, those cubes wouldn't be milky.


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## Back2square1 (Jan 16, 2014)

Does anyone know why primary cubes are so much less available than their black/white counterparts? I rarely see them offered unless the cube is extremely popular (think zhanchi) or they are limited editions. Are they just not popular enough to be widespread?


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## kcl (Jan 16, 2014)

RubiksJake12 said:


> I'm pretty sure it's all placebo. Same question as "which color is faster, white or black?".



Black of course.


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## aboeglin (Jan 17, 2014)

In the end it's all about getting used to it. When I first took a white cube in my hands my times jumped like crazy. After a day or two it came back to normal. When I take a black cube again it always takes me a few solves to get used to it again. Same goes for the light I believe. It's all about adapting and getting used to. I think everybody could reach the same performances with a white, black, or primary cube, if he'd be given enough time to adapt.


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## Jlvs2run (Jun 17, 2017)

Ebay has primary color cubes, but they are more expensive.


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