# The Color Neutrality Thread!



## HelpCube (Aug 13, 2010)

As color neutrality grows and more and more cubers are becoming color neutral I decided that there should be a color neutrality thread. 

Definition of CN: does the first step of his/her method on whatever damn side they want to

Some things to address:
1. Whether or not color neutrality is in fact, faster than a white cross.
2. The easiest method of becoming color neutral.
3. If black stickers are better than white for color neutrality on black cubes or vise versa for white cubes so that that color doesn't stand out as much.
4. Recognition
5. Something I noticed is that the guhong logo, which comes with a dayan guhong, is transparent so you can put it on any side. I put mine on orange, and personally i noticed for some reason i started doing an orange cross more often than usual. 

Will be updated later.

Also, I think something else good for discussion would be what puzzles are good to be color neutral on and which ones are not.


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## ben1996123 (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm colour neutral.


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## Olji (Aug 13, 2010)

i always go for black cross (white cube) then i got the lightest color for LL and that one sticks out, helping me with Oll recognition, although im doing 2look right now x)


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## HelpCube (Aug 13, 2010)

Oljibe said:


> i always go for black cross (white cube) then i got the lightest color for LL and that one sticks out, helping me with Oll recognition, although im doing 2look right now x)



thats great for always doing black cross, but for color neutrality you don't really want any color to stick out. This could be why tristan uses silver instead of white on his cubes.


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## Kirjava (Aug 13, 2010)

HelpCube said:


> Some things to address(in order of importance):
> 1. Whether or not color neutrality is in fact, faster than a white cross.




Depends on the cuber.



HelpCube said:


> 2. The easiest method of becoming color neutral.




Be neutral from the start.



HelpCube said:


> 3. If black stickers are better than white for color neutrality on black cubes or vise versa for white cubes so that that color doesn't stand out as much.




Depends on the cuber.



HelpCube said:


> 4. Recognition




Intuitive.


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## Blablabla (Aug 13, 2010)

Don't know about the cross, i use Petrus.
I was neutral since I learned to solve the cube so I don't know.
I used a white and a black type A as my main cubes for a while and didn't have any problem with them.

Are there any succesful 100% color neutral Roux solvers? I'm starting to use this method and it's so confusing being color neutral with it, the most i can do is either do the blocks leaving U white or yellow unsolved.


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## Joker (Aug 13, 2010)

After a couple months of cubing, I tried to be colour neutral for a week...and failed. I'm so used to discarding pieces on the opposite face of my cross while doing F2L, when I'm colour neutral they still don't appear in F2L.
So the best bet would be to be colour neutral from the start.


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## rubiksczar (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm confused, what exactly does colour neutral mean? does colour neutral mean that (for example) you solve white cross every time or does it mean you solve the cross with any colour that seams easiest?


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## TheMachanga (Aug 13, 2010)

I've always been color neutral. I was color neutral even before I learned to solve the cube (I would solve one side, each time a different color). I learned LBL and was color neutral. I thought it was boring not being neutral. I actually thought every cube ever was CN, and it was weird not to be CN. I learned CFOP, and had trouble with F2L because of my CN. My first day, I learned all the cases with white, then started CN the second day I learned. I've been so ever since. I personally think the best time to become CN is when you just learn CFOP.


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## Shortey (Aug 13, 2010)

rubiksczar said:


> I'm confused, what exactly does colour neutral mean? does colour neutral mean that (for example) you solve white cross every time or does it mean you solve the cross with any *colour that seams easiest*?



That.


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## HelpCube (Aug 13, 2010)

Blablabla said:


> Are there any succesful 100% color neutral Roux solvers? I'm starting to use this method and it's so confusing being color neutral with it, the most i can do is either do the blocks leaving U white or yellow unsolved.



i think it is very hard to go fast on block building methods without being color neutral. My first method after LBL was petrus, so i've been semi-color neutral until know, when i am FINALLY color neutral.


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## ThatGuy (Aug 13, 2010)

One helpful way I've found is to do color neutral 2 gen solves. I don't know how that works for other people though.


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## CharlesOBlack (Aug 13, 2010)

Blablabla said:


> Are there any successful 100% color neutral Roux solvers? I'm starting to use this method and it's so confusing being color neutral with it, the most i can do is either do the blocks leaving U white or yellow unsolved.



I'm a color neutral Roux/Fridrich solver. My average with Roux is sub-30. Is that what you mean by 'successful'?


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## Edward (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm CN when I'm doing fridrich.

I can only do red/orange when I'm doing Roux.


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## ExoCorsair (Aug 13, 2010)

I like Cubesmith's half-bright set, and I'm color neutral.

Easily the worst part of being color neutral for me is transitioning from cross to F2L; ususally don't have enough time to find a good first F2L pair.


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## Samania (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm Bi neutral  

But if there's like a super easy cross, then I would use it (and most of the time I would mess up) . Its more of a choice for me.


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## CubesOfTheWorld (Aug 13, 2010)

I practiced color neutral for a while, but I gave up. I think I might practice again.


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## theace (Aug 13, 2010)

i fail at being cn. I tried for a while. My usually sub 30 solves turned into sub 80 solves haha! White ftw! I tried cubing with a white cube with black stickers, was a sub 40 then.


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## bluecloe45 (Aug 13, 2010)

im color nutreal


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## Faz (Aug 14, 2010)

Yosup. Be CN from the start.


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## Dene (Aug 14, 2010)

I don't see any point in this thread.


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## hic0057 (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm Colour neutral on the 3x3. Most people use white but i use yellow because all my cubes got that color and around 3/4 got white. For pyraminx there I'm not Colour neutral.


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## HelpCube (Aug 14, 2010)

hic0057 said:


> I'm Colour neutral on the 3x3. Most people use white but i use yellow because all my cubes got that color and around 3/4 got white. For pyraminx there I'm not Colour neutral.



not CN on pyraminx??? i'd find that very hard.


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## Olji (Aug 14, 2010)

hic0057 said:


> I'm Colour neutral on the 3x3. Most people use white but i use yellow because all my cubes got that color and around 3/4 got white. For pyraminx there I'm not Colour neutral.



you understand that color neutral means that you start with any color?


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## HelpCube (Aug 14, 2010)

Oljibe said:


> hic0057 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm Colour neutral on the 3x3. Most people use white but i use yellow because all my cubes got that color and around 3/4 got white. For pyraminx there I'm not Colour neutral.
> ...



o wow lol, i just realized that part of his post. But yes, doing your cross on yellow every time does not make you color neutral. Color neutrality means to start your cross on the side which has the fewest moves to a cross.


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## Shortey (Aug 14, 2010)

HelpCube said:


> Oljibe said:
> 
> 
> > hic0057 said:
> ...



Not really


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## HelpCube (Aug 14, 2010)

Morten said:


> HelpCube said:
> 
> 
> > Oljibe said:
> ...



ya, i think i did word that a little strangely. I meant to say just to go with the easiest cross.


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## Kirjava (Aug 14, 2010)

HelpCube said:


> ya, i think i did word that a little strangely. I meant to say just to go with the easiest cross.




Still, no.


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## Daniel Wu (Aug 14, 2010)

HelpCube said:


> hic0057 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm Colour neutral on the 3x3. Most people use white but i use yellow because all my cubes got that color and around 3/4 got white. For pyraminx there I'm not Colour neutral.
> ...


I'm not CN on pyraminx.  The only puzzle I'm completely CN on is 2x2, and it's likely to stay that way.


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## uberCuber (Aug 14, 2010)

HelpCube said:


> ya, i think i did word that a little strangely. I meant to say just to go with the easiest cross.



seeing as not everyone even does a cross...no


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 14, 2010)

Even for CFOP users, that's not true.


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## HelpCube (Aug 15, 2010)

I know, i just cant seem to word it right. any1 wanna try?


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## adfoote (Aug 15, 2010)

how about "does the first step of his/her method on whatever damn side they want to"?
anyway, any recommendations for how to LEARN to be CN? thus far ive just seen that its easiest to be CN from the start, but i didnt start out CN so i want to know how to become color neutral. 
right now ive just made a 2nd cubemania account for color neutrality, and i avg like 20-25 seconds slower than i do normally. except for with red crosses im like 10-15 seconds slower than the usual 25. and im the worst on green crosses. i dont know why though, maybe my hatred for dan browns method psychologically slows down my green crosses. 
or maybe im part plant, i absorb red and reflect green.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 15, 2010)

HelpCube said:


> I know, i just cant seem to word it right. any1 wanna try?



CN gives you the _ability_ to start a cross on any side (or start with any colours for 2x2/1x2x3/whatever) but it doesn't mean you _have_ to start with the easiest cross.


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## abctoshiro (Aug 15, 2010)

Color Neutrality means that for any method, you can start step 1 of your method on any side. That's enough.

I'm opposite neutral in Fridrich (I can start my cross on either White or Yellow) but I can't do that in Roux (always Orange-Blue-Red-White 1x2x3...if that's clear.)
In megaminx and 2x2x2 I am completely neutral.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 15, 2010)

Neutral on Megaminx is probably a bad idea...


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## abctoshiro (Aug 15, 2010)

I can't help it, but I'm neutral at it. I am slow at megaminx (5-9 minutes...SLOW) but I'm neutral at it.


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## HelpCube (Aug 15, 2010)

[abc]toshiro;435071 said:


> I can't help it, but I'm neutral at it. I am slow at megaminx (5-9 minutes...SLOW) but I'm neutral at it.



try to become un-neutral and your times will go way down. It will help alot.


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## Olji (Aug 15, 2010)

i always start with white on my megaminx, but since im using modded fridrich, its still pretty slow


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## ExoCorsair (Aug 15, 2010)

adfoote said:


> anyway, any recommendations for how to LEARN to be CN? thus far ive just seen that its easiest to be CN from the start, but i didnt start out CN so i want to know how to become color neutral.



I wouldn't bother, the gains are minimal, if any.


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## Kirjava (Aug 15, 2010)

adfoote said:


> how about "does the first step of his/her method on whatever damn side they want to"?




Getting closer ^_^


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## HelpCube (Aug 15, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> adfoote said:
> 
> 
> > how about "does the first step of his/her method on whatever damn side they want to"?
> ...



i think i'll use that one on the main post for definition


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## blakedacuber (Aug 15, 2010)

im colour nuetral and haven't practiced since i was avg455ish now sub 22 lol i did an avg of 5 wth each color and my worst was orang with a 23 avg


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## dillonbladez (Aug 15, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> adfoote said:
> 
> 
> > how about "does the first step of his/her method on whatever damn side they want to"?
> ...



Colour Neutral = The ability to do the first step of your method, on any side you choose to, without any significantly different times. (Eg, times on Blue block/cross = time on yellow block/cross, give or take 0.5 - 1 second)?

Edit:
Awesome if i'm right, lol. I'm not even colour neutral


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## maggotcuber (Aug 15, 2010)

adfoote said:


> and im the worst on green crosses. i dont know why though, maybe my hatred for dan browns method psychologically slows down my green crosses.
> or maybe im part plant, i absorb red and reflect green.



dont hate! he taught me how to be color neutral!


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## penguin009 (Aug 15, 2010)

I was always color neutral without knowing it... nonetheless I still suck at cubing


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## HelpCube (Aug 16, 2010)

maggotcuber said:


> adfoote said:
> 
> 
> > and im the worst on green crosses. i dont know why though, maybe my hatred for dan browns method psychologically slows down my green crosses.
> ...



same here, i am the slowest on green. When i am teaching someone how to solve the cube but they already know some of the green side, i try to get them to white/color neutral.


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## Kirjava (Aug 16, 2010)

not being restricted to any fixed colours or groups of them in any parts of the method


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## HelpCube (Aug 16, 2010)

Kirjava said:


> not being restricted to any fixed colours or groups of them in any parts of the method



thats a good one too lol 

Mind if i use that in the main post instead?


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## Hadley4000 (Aug 16, 2010)

I am neutral on all puzzles except megaminx(But who really is?)

I have been color neutral since the very beginning. I think it has advantages and disadvantages. 

Advantage is obvious, you can often times get shorter crosses(Maybe a white cross solver would have a 5 move cross, but there would be a 2 move on blue), and you can sometimes get luckier at X Cross(1x2x2 block of blue/red/yellow perhaps).

The disadvantage, is on solves where it is harder to "Decide" what cross to start on, you can lose time that could be spent looking for the first/second pair.


I don't have any plans on becoming fixed cross.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 17, 2010)

Hadley4000 said:


> The disadvantage, is on solves where it is harder to "Decide" what cross to start on, you can lose time that could be spent looking for the first/second pair.


I think that's a plus of being opposite colour neutral- having to only scan one additional side gives you a little more time. I'm not colour neutral at all on 3x3, though, so I don't really know.


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## adfoote (Aug 17, 2010)

i dont think im gonna go for 100% CN, i just wanna be sub 30 with a yellow cross, sub 40 with a red/blue/green/orange cross, and sub 25 with a white cross. i might just go back to doing a fixed white cross because i was getting faster before i started this CN thing.


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## AvidCuber (Aug 18, 2010)

adfoote said:


> i dont think im gonna go for 100% CN, i just wanna be sub 30 with a yellow cross, sub 40 with a red/blue/green/orange cross, and sub 25 with a white cross. i might just go back to doing a fixed white cross because i was getting faster before i started this CN thing.


 Well obviously, you won't get faster without practice. I averaged ~26-27 when I decided to become color neutral, and it brought my times back to ~35 for 3-4 weeks. But with practice, now I'm averaging 24-25, and I have not learned any other algs (I'm currently learning full PLL) since before I started being CN.


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## Kirjava (Aug 18, 2010)

adfoote said:


> i might just go back to doing a fixed white cross because i was getting faster before i started this CN thing.




This explains CN so well.


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## person123 (Aug 18, 2010)

im partial cn, its actually quite effective =]


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## Daniel Wu (Aug 18, 2010)

2x2: CN
3x3: Partial CN
4x4: CN for centers, Non CN 3x3
5x5: Partial CN for centers, Non CN 3x3
6x6: Partial CN for centers, Non CN 3x3
7x7: Partial CN for centers, Non CN 3x3
Megaminx: Non CN
Pyraminx: Non CN

Hm.. I never really thought about this, it just kinda happened this way.


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## maggotcuber (Aug 18, 2010)

Hadley4000 said:


> The disadvantage, is on solves where it is harder to "Decide" what cross to start on, you can lose time that could be spent looking for the first/second pair.



agreed. on some solves i spend t much time on deciding which cross i should start on, because there's either nothing to work with or theres too many goo choices. usually when this happens im stuck doing a badly planned out cross


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## Tim Major (Aug 18, 2010)

rickcube said:


> Pyraminx: Non CN
> 
> Hm.. I never really thought about this, it just kinda happened this way.



Huh? Not colour neutral on Pyra? You've gotta be joking 
You might miss so many easier blocks. It's not hard  (I promise)


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 18, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> rickcube said:
> 
> 
> > Pyraminx: Non CN
> ...


Yeah, CN on pyraminx is easier than 2x2 (less colours), and you'll already CN on that. You'll pick it up quickly


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## Daniel Wu (Aug 18, 2010)

hawkmp4 said:


> ZB_FTW!!! said:
> 
> 
> > rickcube said:
> ...


For oka normally I can get the top block in 3 or less moves non CN. So it's not much of an issue for me. Although the other blocks are sometimes tempting. But if I do a color that I don't usually do, fixing the bottom centers and the last 3 edges are always horrible. I just can't do the bottom layer CN.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 18, 2010)

rickcube said:


> hawkmp4 said:
> 
> 
> > ZB_FTW!!! said:
> ...


That's like saying I can't be CN on 3x3 because whenever I use a blue cross, my times are a lot higher.
It takes practice.


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## HelpCube (Aug 21, 2010)

hawkmp4 said:


> rickcube said:
> 
> 
> > hawkmp4 said:
> ...



exactly. CN at first will make your time go way up... (just like learning f2l or oll or pll or anything else for anything, not even neccesarily cubing related)
But with practice, it can give you that little edge over everybody else.


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## Wickex (Aug 21, 2010)

I'm color neutral and have always been


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## a small kitten (Aug 21, 2010)

Both my parents are color neutral so I am also color neutral. It runs in the family.

I don't think CN is particularly effective for ZZ.


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## TheMachanga (Aug 22, 2010)

I don't have trouble with deciding what cross for regular 3x3, but on ryan H sim, you only get 5 second inspection, and I have trouble there


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## ~Adam~ (Aug 27, 2010)

I was colour neutral until I learnt F2L 
I'm pretty sure I was following advice from a video (maybe LTBK).

I now solve white or yellow but when I solve the hardest cross in around 3 seconds I don't think colour neutrality would help me all that much, very often.
I might get round to learning it though.


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## Johannes91 (Aug 27, 2010)

Hadley4000 said:


> I am neutral on all puzzles except megaminx(But who really is?)



o/


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## Robert-Y (Aug 27, 2010)

I would say I am colour neutral on the megaminx at the moment, but how could/would I prove/disprove this?


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 27, 2010)

I've always been color neutral... I never found it important to not be


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## brunson (Aug 27, 2010)

a small kitten said:


> Both my parents are color neutral so I am also color neutral. It runs in the family.
> .



Do you think it's a recessive gene?


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