# Your Average Cross Efficiency



## guitardude7241 (Jan 12, 2010)

the optimal move count is 5 or so, i'm not sure(but i am sure someone will correct me).

1D' B2 R' F2 L2 B2 F2 D U2 L F' R2 U L' R F D' B2 U L2 R B2 F U' B2
2B L2 F2 L' D2 L F L' R B' D R2 B2 F L R2 D2 U2 R' B U R2 U2 B' D'
3U L' R D2 U' L2 U2 L' B' F D2 U R2 D L B F' L' R2 D B2 F L' R D
4B F' R' B F' U' B D U R2 B' L' R' B' F2 L' R2 B D' U B F R U F
5U2 L' F2 L R D2 U' F U R U B2 R F2 L' D' U L' R' D' B U' L D' F2
6F U B2 D2 U' B' U B' F2 L' B R' F R2 F2 L' R2 D' U F R' D U' R2 B
7D2 L' R' D' L D' U' L R' B F' L2 U B' F2 L2 B2 L' F2 U R' U B F2 R'
8D2 U' L R' B F2 D' U2 L D' F2 L2 B' U' L' B2 F' D2 U L' R' B' L D2 R
9B' F' D2 U' L' R2 D' R2 D U L' R2 U R' B' D' R B2 U' R' U2 B2 L2 R F D2 R F2 R' 10B2 F' D2 U R' B' F' R2 U L' B' F L R2 B' U R' B' F R' U2
11D L' D U' L2 R' B2 R U2 F2 L2 R' U' R' F2 D U' B2 L2 B' D2 U' B' L' R
12F' U R2 U' L B' L D' U' L' R2 U2 F2 L R2 B U2 L R2 F2 D' B R2 D R2

solutions
*i'm not trying for optimal, i'm just trying what i see.
y z U' R' z x' L' U' F L F 7
z x z' D' R' D F L D 6
y D' U' R' L U' L F' 7
y' L R' U' L' B L2 R' F y2 L' U L 11(xcross)
y x' R F' R B' U F2 6
y x R F' L u2 F2 5
x2 y U L U' B D2 5
x' L' F U L2 D2 5
y' x' R' B' U' L' U' y' R' U R' F 9
y' z2 R' U y L U' L F R' F2 D2 9
z D2 R' F' L' 4
x U' F R' D F2 5


avg: 6.6

what's yours?


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## Zane_C (Jan 12, 2010)

The optimal move count I think is no more then 8.

1) 8
2) 9
3) 7
4) 6
5) 7
6) 9
7) 7
8) 6
9) 8
10) 7
11) 7
12) 6

Average = 7.25 moves


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## Kian (Jan 12, 2010)

Lars put together a cross study here if you're interested in more information on cross statistics.


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## DavidWoner (Jan 12, 2010)

Kian said:


> Lars put together a cross study here if you're interested in more information on cross statistics.



Well that is a computer doing the solving, I think he's interested in how people actually fare.
Highlight for solutions.
7 R' D' U' r' U' D' R
6 y U R' F' L' U R'
7 y x2 U F R L2 U R U
6 y' L' D R' U2 y z' U D
6 U R' F U R L'
4 y x R U2 x' U2 F'
6 y x2 R B U' F R U2
5 y z2 R r F U' R2
6 y x2 U2 r U F' R L
6 y' R F U' R' L' U2
6 U' R' L' U l u
5  U2 R2' F d L'

mean = 5.8333 etc


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## Faz (Jan 12, 2010)

7 (mostly 2 gen)
5
6
7
4
4
6
6
6 
7
6
5


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## cmhardw (Jan 12, 2010)

Spoiler






guitardude7241 said:


> 1D' B2 R' F2 L2 B2 F2 D U2 L F' R2 U L' R F D' B2 U L2 R B2 F U' B2





Spoiler



y2 U' L F y F' R2 D2





> 2B L2 F2 L' D2 L F L' R B' D R2 B2 F L R2 D2 U2 R' B U R2 U2 B' D'





Spoiler



x2 F L y R U2 D R2 D' L (X-cross)





> 3U L' R D2 U' L2 U2 L' B' F D2 U R2 D L B F' L' R2 D B2 F L' R D





Spoiler



z2 E L F' y U2 R2





> 4B F' R' B F' U' B D U R2 B' L' R' B' F2 L' R2 B D' U B F R U F





Spoiler



x U2 R' x' y' L U L F' D





> 5U2 L' F2 L R D2 U' F U R U B2 R F2 L' D' U L' R' D' B U' L D' F2





Spoiler



x2 U L F' y' L F2 D' B D2





> 6F U B2 D2 U' B' U B' F2 L' B R' F R2 F2 L' R2 D' U F R' D U' R2 B





Spoiler



y x' U R2 x' D2 R'





> 7D2 L' R' D' L D' U' L R' B F' L2 U B' F2 L2 B2 L' F2 U R' U B F2 R'





Spoiler



y2 D R L' F' D2 y L U L F' (X-cross)





> 8D2 U' L R' B F2 D' U2 L D' F2 L2 B' U' L' B2 F' D2 U L' R' B' L D2 R





Spoiler



y x2 D' L U' R' B' L F' R2 y R2 (X-cross)





> 9B' F' D2 U' L' R2 D' R2 D U L' R2 U R' B' D' R B2 U' R' U2 B2 L2 R F D2 R F2 R'





Spoiler



y' x L U' x' U' R' F D' R D





> 10B2 F' D2 U R' B' F' R2 U L' B' F L R2 B' U R' B' F R' U2





Spoiler



y2 R' F y' F' L F' L' U2 L D R' (X-cross) I'm not sure if I would have spotted this solve during inspection, but I can see it very clearly as I try the scramble.





> 11D L' D U' L2 R' B2 R U2 F2 L2 R' U' R' F2 D U' B2 L2 B' D2 U' B' L' R





Spoiler



y x' U x' D R' D y L2 D L





> 12F' U R2 U' L B' L D' U' L' R2 U2 F2 L R2 B U2 L R2 F2 D' B R2 D R2





Spoiler



y L U' L2 R' F D2 y' R U' R' (cross + 1st pair, all planned during inspection. Technically I still consider this an X-cross solve.)








> avg: 6.6
> 
> what's yours?



7 cross solves: average turn count of 6.4 turns
5 X-cross solves: average turn count of 9.0 turns

Chris


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## richardzhang (Jan 12, 2010)

6
9
8
8
6
7
7
9
7
9
8
5


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## Zane_C (Jan 12, 2010)

What's the difference between an X-cross and a cross?


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## Kian (Jan 12, 2010)

DavidWoner said:


> Kian said:
> 
> 
> > Lars put together a cross study here if you're interested in more information on cross statistics.
> ...



Of course, I was merely providing him with more information about the subject he was interested in. Also, he asked for someone to correct him about optimal solving, so I figured that information would have some value for him.

Anywho, my mean was 6.4 but I didn't save the solutions. I could probably recreate them, though, if need be.

@ZaneC An X-cross is short for "Extended Cross". This means you solve the cross and one pair simultaneously.


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## cmhardw (Jan 12, 2010)

Zane_C said:


> What's the difference between an X-cross and a cross?



X-cross solves the cross and also the 1st corner edge pair together, rather than in two separate steps.

I actually take a more liberal definition of what X-cross is. I wrote a post about it a long time ago. Let me see if I can find it...

Ok here it is:


cmhardw said:


> I consider Xcross to be either:
> 1) seeing the direct solve to the Xcross during inspection
> 2) seeing the solve for the 2x2x2 and one other cross edge during inspection, with intention to locate and place the 4th cross edge during the solving phase.
> 3) seeing the solve for the 2x2x2 during inspection while making sure that the solution for the 2x2x2 puts the other 2 cross edges in a "good" position. A good position means easy to solve in relatively few moves.
> ...



Chris


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## Zane_C (Jan 12, 2010)

cmhardw said:


> Zane_C said:
> 
> 
> > What's the difference between an X-cross and a cross?
> ...



Thanks, that seems complicated.


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## mande (Jan 12, 2010)

7, 6, 6, 8, 7, 4, 8, 7, 8, 7, 8, 6 = 7


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## eastamazonantidote (Jan 12, 2010)

My efficiency:
1. 8
2. 7
3. 7
4. 5 STM
5. 6
6. 6
7. 8
8. 6
9. 7
10. 7
11. 5
12. 7

Average: 6.6

Way better than I thought.


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## Sin-H (Jan 12, 2010)

8 (with pair preservation)
6 (with pair preservation lol)
6
8 (but fast; I would have also seen a 7 moves one, but I would use the faster one in a speedsolve)
7
4
8. meh.
7
7
7
6
6

mean: 6.67


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## Provectus (Jan 12, 2010)

Highlight for solutions.

7 z2 R D F' R' L D' B
7 x2 F L B U' F R2
7 z2 y' F R' F D R' F' D2
7 z2 y L' R' D2 F D' R' D
6 x2 D' L' F D L R'
4 x2 L F2 D2 F'
8 z2 y' L B F R D' L F D'
7 z2 y L U' L' F' R U' B2
7 z2 y' L2 U' F R' D' R' D2
6 z2 F R' D' F' D2 F2
6 z2 D' R' L D L' F
6 z2 y D' R' D' L B2 D

6.4167

Quite surprised with this. I was expecting something more than 7.


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## xXzaKerXx (Jan 12, 2010)

hmm do you guys know a website/program that gives scrambles and shows you the cross solutions? i heard badmephisto mentrion about it once but i think the link isn't working.. thanks


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## otsyke (Jan 12, 2010)

xXzaKerXx said:


> hmm do you guys know a website/program that gives scrambles and shows you the cross solutions? i heard badmephisto mentrion about it once but i think the link isn't working.. thanks



http://fn.dy.fi/old/misc/cross/index.pl


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## Lucas Garron (Jan 12, 2010)

otsyke said:


> xXzaKerXx said:
> 
> 
> > hmm do you guys know a website/program that gives scrambles and shows you the cross solutions? i heard badmephisto mentrion about it once but i think the link isn't working.. thanks
> ...


CCT


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## Rune (Jan 12, 2010)

6
6
5
6
5 STM
4
5
6
6
5 STM 
6
5

Avg 5.42


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## Rune (Jan 12, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> 7 (mostly 2 gen)
> 5
> 6
> 7
> ...



Could you show your fifth solve, please?


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## SimonWestlund (Jan 12, 2010)

uweren2000 said:


> fazrulz said:
> 
> 
> > 7 (mostly 2 gen)
> ...



B D R' D' is a 4 move solution.. not sure if that's what he did though.. but probably.


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## ManasijV (Jan 12, 2010)

7 6 6 8 7 4 8 7 7 7 6 5
Wasn't trying for efficiency and all crosses done on U
can anybody show me a 7 or less move cross on U for the 7th scramble?


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## Rune (Jan 12, 2010)

SimonWestlund said:


> uweren2000 said:
> 
> 
> > fazrulz said:
> ...



I forgot, he didn´t as me; start from red.


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## tanapak1 (Jan 12, 2010)

8 7 8 9 6 6 9 7 9 7 8 6

Avg. 7.5

Scramble - F Green U White

White Cross.


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## Olivér Perge (Jan 12, 2010)

Solving white cross like i would normally solve them in a speedsolve:

8 7 6 7 6 4 7 8 7 6 7 5

Average: 6.6


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 12, 2010)

I did these by writing down what I saw after normal inspection time.

8 x2 D' L' F' R2 D' F R D
6 x2 F L B U' F R2
6 x2 U D' F R' U2 L2
7 x2 U' F' L U' B' R D2
7 x2 U' L D F' B L2 D
4 x2 F2 D2 R' F'
8 x2 F2 B R F D' U2 R' B2
7 x2 D B2 U F' L R' F2
8 x2 F' R F' D2 R D R D2
7 x2 U B' R B2 D' B' D2
7 x2 D2 L' D B D' B' D
6 x2 D' F' D' B R2 D

Mean: 6.75



uweren2000 said:


> Avg 5.42


Wow, Rune, you're very efficient! I had no idea you were so efficient in your solving. Very nice!


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## Rune (Jan 12, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> I did these by writing down what I saw after normal inspection time.
> 
> 8 x2 D' L' F' R2 D' F R D
> 6 x2 F L B U' F R2
> ...


Maybe I was just lucky, starting with red. On the other hand, after a couple of years and no nerves affecting, I do control my cross.


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## Fox (Jan 12, 2010)

Wow, I thought I was going to do it worse.
Average: 6.5
1)8
2)6
3)6
4)6
5)8
6)4
7)9
8)6
9)6
10)7
11)7
12)5


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## Zava (Jan 12, 2010)

7 7 5stm 7 7 4 8stm-xcross 8 7 6 7 6
average: 6.58
oh and a 8.80 solve on the 2nd scramble


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## kurtaz (Jan 12, 2010)

5, 7, 5, 7, 6, 4, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 4 (without Ds)
6, 8, 5, 8, 7, 4, 7, 6, 6, 7, 7, 5 (with Ds)
hmm


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## Tyrannous (Jan 12, 2010)

6
6
8
7
4
7
5
6
8
9
7
8
average = 6.75, not bad for the fact im so slow lol


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## Stefan (Jan 12, 2010)

7 6 7 6 7 4 8 7 8 6 7 5

mean-of-12: *6.5*
avg-of-10(12): *6.6*


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## Lt-UnReaL (Jan 12, 2010)

6 6 7 6 6 7 6 5 6 7 5 5

mean: 6.0
average: 6.0


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## Daniel Wu (Jan 12, 2010)

Ugh. I deleted the times. It came out to 6.3 htm though.


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## nlCuber22 (Jan 12, 2010)

I have to go, but I'll do it later.
I'm guessing 7-8ish.


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## Carrot (Jan 12, 2010)

7
6
7
8
7
4
8
7
8
7
7
6


average: 7.00
mean: 6.80

Hehe.. maybe I should just stick to my pyraminx ^^


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## fanwuq (Jan 12, 2010)

Spoiler



1 F'U'DLBD' 6
2 F'BD'FBR2L'DF' 9 excross
3 U'DBR'D2L2 6
4 R2U'RDF'R 6
5 BDR'D' 4
6 LDLDB2D2F2DU2B' 10 double excross
7 DU'RF2UB'U'R'B2 9 excross
8 L'UBL2F2 5
9 DUFB'L2U2 6
10 UR'FD2L'BDR' 8 excross
11 R2U'F'D' 4
12 U'B'RF2D2 5


7 cross
average: 5.25
3 excross
average: 8.67
1 double excross
average: 10

These are really easy and I was being color neutral. Normally I don't do this many excrosses and probably average just under 7.


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## guitardude7241 (Jan 15, 2010)

well. i'm not that bad.


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 1, 2013)

Bump!

6, 5, 6, 6, 6,
*4*, *7*, 6, 7, 5,
6, 5 = 5.8 avg12

Opposite colour neutral. 10th solve I counted an E as 1, but it's a single move I would use in a solve. Not sure if FMC rules apply.


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## rj (Sep 1, 2013)

6.5


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## TDM (Sep 1, 2013)

Spoiler



z2 R F R2 U y' L' F U L2 F
x2 y' R F U' R L B2
x2 U D' F R' U2 L2
x2 y' R B' R' U' R' F U' y' R' F R D2
x2 y' D' L' D' F' y F U R' F
x2 L F2 u' D' R'
x2 y L B R F' R' U' R2 U2 F2 D2
z2 D' F L F U' R U' R B'
x2 y U' F D F U2 L' U L' B2
x2 y' F U' R' D2 F D' R D
z2 R' D' F R D2 F' D2
x2 y' D2 L D R' U' L2


9, 6, 6, 11, 8, 5, 10, 9, 9, 8, 6 = *7* Ao12 / *7.25* Mo12


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## Daniel Wu (Sep 1, 2013)

rickcube said:


> Ugh. I deleted the times. It came out to 6.3 htm though.



6.29 average over 50 solves. Interesting that I haven't got any better at this after three years.


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## mati1242 (Sep 1, 2013)

1 -> 6
2 -> 7 
3 -> 6
4 -> 7
5 -> 8
6 -> 4
7 -> 8 
8 -> 8
9 -> 8
10 -> 7
11 -> 7
12 -> 5

= 6.75 mo12/ 6.90 av12


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## uvafan (Sep 1, 2013)

6, 6, 7, 7, 6, 5, 6, 5, 6, 6, 4, 6

5.83 mo12/5.90 avg12.

I don't actually use CFOP but I did it because I was curious. CN, by the way. Is this good?


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 1, 2013)

uvafan said:


> Is this good?



Seems like not many people are getting sub 6 so probably‽


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## mDiPalma (Sep 1, 2013)

4, 6, 5, 7, 5, 8, 5, 6, 6, 9, 4, 7
5.9 avg12, 5.33 avg5

fixed cross on* yellow*


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## Flame838 (Sep 1, 2013)

6.6 color neutral


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 2, 2013)

mDiPalma said:


> 4, 6, 5, 7, 5, 8, 5, 6, 6, 9, 4, 7
> 5.9 avg12, 5.33 avg5
> 
> fixed cross on* yellow*



What was your solution for the 1st solve?


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## sneaklyfox (Sep 2, 2013)

6, 7, 7, 6, 6, 4,
7, 6, 7, 6, 5, 5

Average: 6.0

Not bad. W/Y neutral.


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## YddEd (Sep 2, 2013)

1:7
2:7
3:8
4:5
5:6
6:6
7:8
8:5
9:7
10:10
11:5
12:8
Colour Neutral Crosses
6.8


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## slinky773 (Sep 2, 2013)

1:7
2:8
3:9
4:6
5:6
6:9
7:8
8:6
9:6
10:10
11:7
12:7
Ao12:7.3


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## mDiPalma (Sep 2, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> What was your solution for the 1st solve?



soz, I used ctimer scrambles. I didn't read the OP, but I read rickcube's post (about an avg50), and I figured this was just a thread about "average cross efficiency" as the title suggests.

For the first scramble in the OP, I'd do: U' R B' L' F2 D2


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## immortalchaos29 (Sep 2, 2013)

6, 6, 6, 9, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 4, 5

average = 5.5
mean = 6.0

This is only using normal inspection as in the OP. I'm pretty happy with my efficiency but I've always thought I could use more finger friendly crosses in my solves.


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## Tarhilion (Sep 2, 2013)

I've just recently got into cubing again, so it's pretty bad:

9
10
7
10
9
10
7
5
6
7
9
9

Mean: 8.80
Avg: 8.90


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## legoanimate98 (Sep 2, 2013)

5
5
8
7
6
4
5
5
7
6
3
4

5.416 average. Some of the solutions (the 7's and 8's) weren't as good as they could have been because I was setting up easy f2l pairs.


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## Nathan Dwyer (Sep 2, 2013)

guitardude7241 said:


> the optimal move count is 5 or so, i'm not sure(but i am sure someone will correct me).
> 
> 1D' B2 R' F2 L2 B2 F2 D U2 L F' R2 U L' R F D' B2 U L2 R B2 F U' B2
> 2B L2 F2 L' D2 L F L' R B' D R2 B2 F L R2 D2 U2 R' B U R2 U2 B' D'
> ...




1. z2 L' D' R' B' U' F' L (7)
2. x2 F L B U' F R2 (6)
3. x2 y D' U L F' U2 B2 (6)
4. U' L D R2 U L F' (7)
5. y' U F L F U2 R2 (6)
6. x2 L F2 D2 F' (4)
7. F2 B R D R' U' R' F (8)
8. y R U L U' L F' (6)
9. y' D2 R' y R y' D' L R (6)
10. y' R U' R' z2 y L F' L' D2 (7)
11. L' U' R' U2 R x' D L (7)
12. y' U2 R B2 U L' (5)

6.3 average


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## Iggy (Sep 2, 2013)

6, 8, 7, 8, 6, 4, 8, 7, 8, 7, 8, 6 = 7.10

I suck at crosses.


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## kcl (Sep 2, 2013)

I got a mid 6 to low 7 mean. I tried like 50 crosses and the means of 5 and 12 were always between that.


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## CyanSandwich (Sep 2, 2013)

7
6
6
7
7
4
8
7
8
7
8
6

Mean = 6.75


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## ottozing (Sep 2, 2013)

guitardude7241 said:


> the optimal move count is 5 or so, i'm not sure(but i am sure someone will correct me).
> 
> 1D' B2 R' F2 L2 B2 F2 D U2 L F' R2 U L' R F D' B2 U L2 R B2 F U' B2
> 2B L2 F2 L' D2 L F L' R B' D R2 B2 F L R2 D2 U2 R' B U R2 U2 B' D'
> ...



Most of the time when I do cross I'm probably not quite this efficient as I try to influence my first pair and stuff.

1. x z' F R2 D' R2' L (5 moves)
2. y x' R' B' Uw L R2 (5 moves)
3. y' x' R F' L D' R D' (6 moves)
4. z' x U' L2 F' R Uw R' (6 moves)
5. z' x2 F R D' R' (4 moves)
6. z2 y F R2 D2 R' (4 moves)
7. y x' D R' D F L D2 (6 moves)
8. y' z F' R D R2 D (5 moves)
9. z' D' U2 x' U' R' F D' (6 moves)
10. x' y2 R' F' D R' F2 L2 (6 moves)
11. z D2 R' F' L' (4 moves)
12. y U' R' F L2 D2 (5 moves)

avg12 is 5.2 and mo12 is 5.167


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## ianliu64 (Sep 2, 2013)

5.3


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