# The FMC thread



## blah (Jul 12, 2009)

So I started FMC 2 weeks ago because of the forum competition, and it's the funnest (note: not _funniest_) thing in cubing for me by far and nothing comes close  (well, maybe big cubes BLD, which I've quit )

But being a noob and all in FMC (only 6 attempts so far), I couldn't find a place on this forum for me to ask questions about FMC. I believe many would agree that too many speedcubing questions are over-asked in this forum, but I've only ever seen a handful of threads about FMC, hence this thread.

I'd love to read and learn from a lot of good and elegant solutions from the pros here.

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I'll start off with a question I hope the experts here can help me with:

Scramble: U2 R F2 D2 B2 D2 F2 L2 R F2 L U2 B U' B' U2 L2 F' L2 B U2 (21f)

Premove + (Scramble)': D' + U2 B' L2 F L2 U2 B U B' U2 L' F2 R' L2 F2 D2 B2 D2 F2 R' U2
2x2x2: R L' D' (3/3)
Triple x-cross: R' U' B D B2 D2 R2 D B R' (10/13) (EO skip)

13 moves at this stage is very good for me, so I don't want to give up this good start. But, now what?

I see a few ways to end this, but none of them are nice:

Permute remaining edges: (cancelled: R) U2 R' U R U' R' (6/18)
OLL: L' U R U' L U R' (7/25)
PLL: B2 L2 B R B' L2 B R' B (9/34)
Undo premove: D' (1/35)

or

(Different) triple x-cross: R' U' B D B2 D' B R' B' R B (11/14) (EO skip)
Permute remaining edges: U' F' U2 F (4/18)
Remaining corners suck

or

(Different) triple x-cross: R' U' B D B2 D' B R' B' R B (11/14) (EO skip)
Finish off F2L: U F' U' F U' F' U F (8/22) (OLL skip)
PLL + AUF: L2 U F' B L2 F B' U L2 U2 (10/32)
Undo premove: D' (1/33)

So, how would YOU end this? I'd like to see how you guys handle this bad ending.


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## Tim Reynolds (Jul 12, 2009)

Looking back at your first ending, have you tried doing an insertion instead of an A perm? At worst that's 8 moves=34 total, but there's a good chance you'll find an insertion with a cancellation. I'll keep looking a bit more, but that's my first idea.

Here's another ending for the first solution, one more move but it'll give you another place to look for an insertion:
F2L ending: (cancelled R) U2 R' U2 R U2 R'
OLL: (R U2 R2) U' R2 U' R2 U2 R
AUF, then left with 3 corners.

Also you can try for an insertion on the third solution instead of the U perm, but edge insertions usually don't save many moves over U perms.

For the third solution, that's not all that bad--either (URF URB LUB)(URF RDF UBL) or some other combination of 2 3-corner cycles. That's lots of places to look for insertions--probably would end up at about 32 moves.

I'll start looking for some insertions, see if I find anything good.


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## soccerking813 (Jul 12, 2009)

Just a question about FMC. Why can you pretty much use a different scramble than what is given? Like, why are you allowed to use the scramble inverse and premoves and stuff? It seems like that ruins the idea of solving any situation in as few moves as possible.


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## blah (Jul 12, 2009)

soccerking813 said:


> Just a question about FMC. Why can you pretty much use a different scramble than what is given? Like, why are you allowed to use the scramble inverse and premoves and stuff? It seems like that ruins the idea of solving any situation in as few moves as possible.



Hmm. Never thought about it from that "conservative" point of view before  I've always thought the guys who came up with the inverse scramble and premove ideas were geniuses, they're just so simple, so elegant.

But anyway, I think you're right about solving the inverse scramble being solving a "different" scramble. But I have to disagree with you about premoves. Of course you can solve the same scramble without using premoves, it just takes *a lot* of concentration to know which piece is supposed to go where. Why make life harder when you can just use premoves?


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## blah (Jul 12, 2009)

Tim Reynolds said:


> Looking back at your first ending, have you tried doing an insertion instead of an A perm? At worst that's 8 moves=34 total, but there's a good chance you'll find an insertion with a cancellation. I'll keep looking a bit more, but that's my first idea.



I thought I read somewhere that insertions generally aren't recommended in competitions due to the time constraint? That's why I haven't been taking it seriously at all. I wouldn't know where to start anyway. Do you really go turn by turn to look for an insertion point with cancellations? Isn't that very time consuming?


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## Johannes91 (Jul 12, 2009)

blah said:


> Do you really go turn by turn to look for an insertion point with cancellations? Isn't that very time consuming?


Inserting one commutator takes me just a few minutes or so (or took, I haven't done that in ages). Inserting two optimally takes a bit longer, but at least quickly looking for really nice cancellations is a good idea.


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## Tim Reynolds (Jul 12, 2009)

It turns out that you can do that A perm in the first solution in 6 moves. What's really nice is that the insertion is before the first move of the solution, so it's the first thing you'll see.

(before first move) U R D' R' U' R D R' (R' cancels R in 2x2x2)

You're allowed to use stickers in competition, so sticker the pieces that you're using for the insertion. Scramble, start doing the solution. Often you'll look at a case and know that there's no 8-move solution, ignore that position and just keep going. It doesn't take all that long, and with practice is very fast. Doing 2 might take longer, yeah, but 1 is pretty quick.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jul 12, 2009)

blah said:


> Tim Reynolds said:
> 
> 
> > Looking back at your first ending, have you tried doing an insertion instead of an A perm? At worst that's 8 moves=34 total, but there's a good chance you'll find an insertion with a cancellation. I'll keep looking a bit more, but that's my first idea.
> ...



A single insertion takes me two minutes maximum to find. It's really not that hard once you get the hang of it.


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## fanwuq (Jul 12, 2009)

soccerking813 said:


> Just a question about FMC. Why can you pretty much use a different scramble than what is given? Like, why are you allowed to use the scramble inverse and premoves and stuff? It seems like that ruins the idea of solving any situation in as few moves as possible.



Inverse scramble: invert your solution to your inverse scramble and you have just solved the given scramble. So I think that's OK for non-linear FMC, but I almost never use inverse scramble anyway; it just takes too much time.

Premoves: I don't think you know what is a premove. It only makes mismatched blocks look easier. That is all. I've used pseudo blocks during linear FMC and it's not that hard. You don't steal any moves since you have to undo it at the end of your solution anyway. I probably will just deal with the the recognition at competition, but when I have a computer; I abuse it on alg.garron.us. 

They are clever techniques and you do have to submit the true solution to the scramble given at the end of the day any way.
You might want to look into linear FMC, where you can't undo any moves. Still can use pseudo-blocks, but not premoves for them to look easier.


Blah, 
I did not look much into this, but I would have just did Niklas after solving all edges and inserted an A perm. I haven't seriously tried multiple insertions yet, but I do 1 insertion in about 5-10 minutes without the use of post-it stickers. I just write down all the sticker cycles and look at what I wrote down every single move. 
For example: 
RGY-->
RYB-->
RBW
I write that down go through every move of the solution and keep close attention if any of stickers of a column line up like *R*GY and *R*BW or RG*Y* and RY*B*.


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## blah (Jul 13, 2009)

Premove + scramble: R2 F2 + L2 D L2 U F2 L2 D B2 D' B2 L2 D' B L B F U2 B' L2 D U2 (21f)

My shortest solution so far, I'm not happy with it yet:

*Solution (A)*
2x2x3: D F' R' U F' R' B F' (8/8)
Triple x-cross: B F' L D' L' D F L' B' L (8/16)
Orient remaining edges: U' F U' F' (4/20)
Permute remaining edges and 2 corners: U L' U2 L U2 (5/25) (I don't consider this lucky because I did lots of trial and error to get this)
Undo premove: R2 F2 (2/27)
Corner commutator: F' D2 F U F' D2 F U' (7/34)

(Gray = cancelled moves.)

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Other good starts:

*Solution (B)*
2x2x3: D F2 R' F' U' B L2 (7/7)
Stuck.

*Solution (C)*
2x2x3: D F' R' U F' R' B F' (8/8)
Solve random blocks: U F U F' L' B L B' L2 U2 (10/18)
Stuck.

*Solution (D)*
2x2x3: D F' R' U F' R' B F' (8/8)
Solve random blocks: U F U F' L' B L2 B' L U2 (10/18)
Stuck.

Questions:
1. For solutions (C) and (D), is it ever a good thing to have permutation parity at the end? If not, is there a quick fix to this?
2. Am I over-using premoves? Currently I seem to decide to do premoves as soon as I see a pseudo-2x2x2 block.
3. For corner commutator insertions, is a single move cancellation usually good enough? Or should I try harder to look for 2 move cancellations? How often will I get 2 move cancellations, i.e. once in how many solves?
4. For corner commutator insertions, is it generally advisable to insert in the middle of a double turn? I hope you understand what I mean by this, I don't really know how to phrase it properly.
5. Is doing 3 (or more) premoves ever advisable?
6. What do you consider a "good" number of moves for the 2x2x3? I haven't done much FMC yet, but so far I seem to average sub-10, which I think is pretty decent. But I almost always suck after building my 2x2x3


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## blah (Jul 13, 2009)

blah said:


> 28-move FMC solution in 15 minutes!
> 
> It's a PB. And it's only my 5th FMC attempt  Sad thing is, I couldn't find anything better in the next 45 minutes  Oh, and I won't deny it, I got pretty lucky  But I don't really know how lucky is defined in FMC...
> 
> ...


Thought I'd share this beautiful solution  Anyone else got elegant solutions to share?


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## fanwuq (Jul 13, 2009)

1. It is bad, and I don't know how to fix it. Sometimes I random fix it or if I run out of time, just do a 1LLL with classic pochmann and get a solution around 36 moves.
2. If you are just solving by yourself and could use something like alg.garron.us, use as many premoves as you wish, but I never used more than 3. Usually I can have a solution around 32 with at most 1 premove. At competitions, I don't recommend them at all, but if you must, do only 1. 
4. ??? You mean R (commutator) R? I do not use either and don't see the point and I think R (commutator) R would be equivalent to R2 (commutator) or 
(commutator) R2 depending on where is the cancellation..
5. No, you are crazy. You might as well as finish the whole solve using only premoves.  Wait... you might as well as use the inverse scramble.
6. Your 2x2x3 blocks are very good, but that's probably because this is a fairly easy scramble. I general get around 10 moves each time, but there are plenty of hard scrambles that I can't get sub-12 even after 20 minutes.


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## JLarsen (Jul 13, 2009)

Is there some kind of resource that explains some FMC concepts? I've searched for stuff like premoves and insertions, and I've come up with nothing. Any recomendations?


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## blah (Jul 13, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Is there some kind of resource that explains some FMC concepts? I've searched for stuff like premoves and insertions, and I've come up with nothing. Any recomendations?



As far as I know, there aren't any guides/explanations/tutorials for premoves, at least I've never seen one. I read about it about a year ago (I think) in Arnaud's FMC thread. I can't locate the thread now (found it), but all he provided was an example solve without explaining how or why it worked, so I didn't understand it at all back then.

But I finally understood premoves about a week ago after messing with my cube for hours and hours, but I'm sure you'd take a much shorter time to grasp the concept  IMHO, it's not hard at all to know how and when to use it; but to know why it works the way it does, all it takes is a little extra thinking, it's completely intuitive 

Every who got into FMC seriously seems to know what premoves are, and I can only assume they all figured it out on their own, so I believe anyone else can too if they're serious about FMC. Wouldn't a tutorial just spoil all the fun? FMC is probably the only thing left in speedcubing that's unharmed by guides for "Dummies who just want to know how but not why".

As for insertions, it's just jargon. You don't have to "learn" anything to be able to do it (well, maybe commutators if you don't already know). You just need experience to be good at it. Here's what an insertion is: Say you get an A-perm for PLL, that's gonna cost you 9 moves. But there's bound to be some point within your solution in which those 3 corners are solvable using only an 8-move commutator. So you cycle those corners in the middle of your solution to save a move, get it? If you get a cancellation or two, you'd effectively be doing 6 or 7 moves to cycle 3 corners instead of 9 moves.


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## blah (Jul 13, 2009)

*Roux for FMC*

What's a good number of moves for the first two 1x2x3 blocks for Roux? I did two solves and got 18 (7+11) and 17 (4+13), and I don't think it's good at all.

I'd attempt Roux if I get a nice 1x2x3 (<7 moves) but couldn't get a short sliced 1x1x3 (doesn't matter if the colors are matched or mismatched), is this a good approach? What would you guys do in this case?


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## blah (Jul 13, 2009)

*Crazy solution with 10 move cancellations (no premoves, no inverse scramble)*

Scramble: D2 L D2 L D2 U2 R B2 R U R D R F' R2 B L' D' L2 B U2 (21f)

2x2x2: L' U' L' D' B (5/5)
Siamese 2x2x2s: F2 R2 F . R F R2 F' (5/10)
3rd F2L slot: D2 U L' U2 L D2 (6/16)
4th F2L slot: F R U2 R' F' (3/19)
Pseudo-OLL: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' (6/25)
AUF: U2 (1/26)
Insert at .: F' R2 F L F' R2 F L' (5/31)

Solution: L' U' L' D' B F' L F' R2 F L' R F R2 F' D2 U L' U2 L D2 F R U R' U' R U R' F' U2 (31)

This is only my tenth or so FMC attempt, so 10 cancellations is just ridiculous to me    Or am I just overreacting?  How many cancellations do you guys usually get per solve?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 14, 2009)

I've only had that many moves cancel a couple of times. But then, you're clearly already a lot better than me. Frustrating. 

I guess it makes sense that you're good at this, considering all the cube theory you've been interested in all along. Congratulations on some good solves.


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## JLarsen (Jul 14, 2009)

Oh man blah, this is your new thing. I see it. You did BLD before if I'm not mistaken, and BLD wasn't really my thing, and neither is cube theory. My grasp on commutators is minimal. I think I'll just leave this event alone.


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## fanwuq (Jul 14, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Oh man blah, this is your new thing. I see it. You did BLD before if I'm not mistaken, and BLD wasn't really my thing, and neither is cube theory. My grasp on commutators is minimal. I think I'll just leave this event alone.



But real men do Petrus FMC!
You only need minimal 8 mover commutators for FMC. BH is not necessary at all, so you don't need to learn anything. Just your nice block building alone will get you plenty of sub-40 solutions.


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## JLarsen (Jul 14, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Sn3kyPandaMan said:
> 
> 
> > Oh man blah, this is your new thing. I see it. You did BLD before if I'm not mistaken, and BLD wasn't really my thing, and neither is cube theory. My grasp on commutators is minimal. I think I'll just leave this event alone.
> ...



Erik has tried to get me into fmc, and I think I'm pretty bad at it. I most certainly don't think I could sub 40 with standard oll pll right now, but I haven't really tried. I'll give it a go I guess...

Edit I tried making 2x2x3 blocks and my first two tries were 11 and 10. Is that good?

Scramble: F2 D' B' R' D U' R F D2 B F R2 B2 F' D' R D U' B2 D' U R B2 R' U2

2x2: y' by mistake.....U' B2 D' L D2

EJ 2X2X3 expansion(not sure if i should use that in fmc)

B' U R U R2

10 moves

EO: y2 R' F R

13 moves

ha i think i messed up writing my annotation i suck....there i think i got it right now...

I really am not sure what to do now, but i'll keep going....

Step 4a: y' U' R U2 R2 gives you another EJ pair....lol I have no idea....

oh man this is were it gets bad....yeah I'm just going to stop there I'm not going about this right. I'll do 4a without another ej pair i don't know enough to do that.

New Step 4a....wow...and actually step 4b too:

R U' R' U R U R2

Alright that puts me at 20 moves for a....f2l of sorts....but now I have no idea what to do besides fix an ej pair, or change my 4a solution to break it before hand so i can do cls and pll.

Another step 4a with what I said before....

R U' R' U R U R' U' R' gives me 21

Step 4b: U' R U2 R' U R U' R' leaves me with the wost cls case in existence....

Okay I'm just going to break apart the steb 4b pair differently and go with the ll that I get here's my final crap solution:

Scramble: Scramble: F2 D' B' R' D U' R F D2 B F R2 B2 F' D' R D U' B2 D' U R B2 R' U2

2x2: y' U' B2 D' L D2 (5)
2x2x3: B' U R U R2 (10)
EO: y2 R' F R (13)
Step 4a: y' R U' R' U R U R' U2 R' (22)-Ruined it, crap from here on.
Step 4b: U R U' R' U R U R' (30) 
Cls: y' R U2 R' U R U' R' U R U R' (41) -God dammit
R perm: y' R U2 R' U2 R B' R' U' R U R B R2 (54)

My blockbuilding is fine....but I just have no clue after that. At least I wrote down the solution correctly. (I think)

Anyway that was kind of fun. I think I have potential, although I'd love some advice.


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## blah (Jul 14, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've only had that many moves cancel a couple of times. But then, you're clearly already a lot better than me. Frustrating.
> 
> I guess it makes sense that you're good at this, considering all the cube theory you've been interested in all along. Congratulations on some good solves.





Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Oh man blah, this is your new thing. I see it. You did BLD before if I'm not mistaken, and BLD wasn't really my thing, and neither is cube theory. My grasp on commutators is minimal. I think I'll just leave this event alone.



Oh I confess! I was cheating! So far I've only had two or three solves done under an hour  I take 1:30 to 2:00 most of the time  Hope this'll improve as I get more practice. I have absolutely no interest in no-time-limit FMC because I think it's silly.

But thanks anyway guys 

@Mike: Hmm, I don't claim to know a lot about cube theory (only slightly better than the average speedcuber at best), but I'm quite surprised at how little my knowledge on cube theory has helped me in FMC, actually. If by "cube theory" you mean conjugates and commutators, then I guess most would agree with me that you don't need to understand commutators at all to be able to do insertions, all you have to do is memorize a couple of standard 8-movers for corners and the 6-mover for edges. Other than that, I guess the only other "cube theory" I know is edge orientation and permutation parity, which most can understand without trying too hard. That's all, really.

Don't mean to disappoint you, but I honestly think what makes me better than most other beginners is because I turn fast and scramble fast, seriously  With only one cube, scrambling fast is a must for me (never timed it, but I can probably sub-5 a 20-move scramble easily)  Within the same time limit, I get many more opportunities for trial and error than most others, and so I almost always manage to get lucky  Take a look at my signature: My PLL TA says something about my turning speed, and being good in team BLD means I process cube notation in my head pretty quickly, hence the fast scrambles. My partner and I only had 3 or 4 codes for F2L cases when we got the UWR single and average, the whole of F2L was done using basic UDFBRL notation. Maybe working on these two aspects will help you improve? I'm serious 

@Sneaky: Yeah I was once sub-world class-ish in 3x3x3 and 4x4x4 BLD  But then the rest of the world caught up and I gave up  Don't give up on FMC! As I've already mentioned, commutators aren't a must for FMC, Arnaud didn't know about commutators when he got his competition PB of 33, and look at where he is now! I believe...

1. having started cubing with my version of PBP (Piece By Piece) Petrus for a year,
2. then switching to Fridrich,
3. then practicing ZZ for OH for half a year,
4. then playing around with Roux for about a week just for fun,
5. and having once been good at BLD and had many ideas about it,
6. and having had LOADS of ideas and done lots of research for LS + LL methods,

...have all been beneficial to FMC for me


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 14, 2009)

blah said:


> Hmm, I don't claim to know a lot about cube theory (only slightly better than the average speedcuber at best)


Actually, when I mentioned cube theory, I was also thinking about your explorations into different methods to solve the cube. (Meaning mainly your numbered points that you gave.) That essentially amounts to cube theory of sorts - perhaps not particularly mathematical, but it means you've really studied solving from many different angles. I think studying all those different approaches to solving the cube give you a really big advantage.



blah said:


> Don't mean to disappoint you, but I honestly think what makes me better than most other beginners is because I turn fast and scramble fast, seriously


But yeah, I forgot about that. That's one of my biggest disadvantages - I usually get to explore about 1/3 of the possibilities of most of the really good fewest moves solvers in a given attempt. So when I get lucky, I get one that's almost competitive. But unfortunately, my odds aren't very good for that because I'm so slow. I'm slowly getting faster; it's just a slow and gradual process for me. Like Ton - I'm really only a little behind him in 3x3x3 speed progress. He's just got 4 years on me is all.


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## AvGalen (Jul 14, 2009)

To become really good at FMC you need to:
1) Now about different methods (Layer-by-Layer, BlockBuilding, Corners First)
2) Now many algorithms
3) Be able to think outside of the box (don't be afraid to do F2L with one or 2 bad pieces if that makes F2L very short and it gives you an "almost" good last layer)
4) Get lucky
5) Read about and understand all the techniques I mentioned in The FMC thread

I have always known about commutators, but I am extremely slow at finding corner 3-cycles (30 minutes in a 20 move partial solution is normal for me). I am very good with edge-cycles though. And I never did an official 31, I am still stuck with a 2 year old 33 . I used to be extremely good at "outside of the box", but I have mostly lost that ability since I started using more "mainstream" methods


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## blah (Jul 14, 2009)

@Sneaky: Given my minimal experience with FMC, I don't know if I'm in a right position to say this, but I'm pretty sure EJ pairs are a HUGE no-no in FMC. The worst thing I dread in FMC is ending with 1 or more pieces correctly permuted but misoriented.

The beauty about FMC is that you're not doing speed-blockbuilding, and you can take back moves. I don't know if you've realized this yet, but speed-blockbuilding and FMC-blockbuilding are actually quite different. So you don't have to do a 2x2x2 followed by an expansion into a 2x2x3. In fact, for me, most of the time (which is actually less than 10 times ) I prefer to start with a 1x2x3 because it's so easy to be built efficiently.

And one last thing, I think OLL/PLL is only good when you get an OLL with say, 8 moves or below, followed by A, U, T, J, or if you get cancellations, G. Or skip one of the steps. Or get a REALLY short F2L, say, 15 moves 

I'd only use COLL if I get an EPLL skip, firstly because they're generally longer than OLL, and secondly because I hate inserting edge 3-cycles.

@Arnaud: My mistake  I thought I read somewhere that you didn't know about commutators when you got your 33, guess I remembered wrongly. I've already provided the link to that ooold FMC thread in an earlier post, kinda inconspicuous though 

Any tips on inserting edge cycles? I only know the 6-mover. Are there any others?


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## blah (Jul 14, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Scramble: F2 D' B' R' D U' R F D2 B F R2 B2 F' D' R D U' B2 D' U R B2 R' U2



It looked sooo easy at first sight - sooo many nice blocks! But I couldn't find anything nice 

Premove + scramble: F' R2 B' + F2 D' B' R' D U' R F D2 B F R2 B2 F' D' R D U' B2 D' U R B2 R' U2

Pseudo-2x2x3: D F2 (2/2)
Triple x-cross: L U' L' B U2 B (6/8)
Last F2L edge: U2 B' R B R' (5/13)
Solve LL edges: R' U' F' U F R (5/18)
AUF: U2 (1/19)
Undo premove: F' R2 B' (3/22)
Corner 5-cycle remaining.

or

Pseudo-2x2x3: D F2 (2/2)
Triple x-cross: L U' L' B U2 B (6/8)
Last F2L edge: U2 B' R B R' (5/13)
I don't know what to call this: R' U' F' U F U' R U' (7/20)
Undo premove: F' R2 B' (3/23)
Corner 3-cycle and edge 3-cycle remaining.

Ran out of time 

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Edit: Premove + inverse scramble: U F' + U2 R B2 R' U' D B2 U D' R' D F B2 R2 F' B' D2 F' R' U D' R B D F2

2x2x2: D' L2 U' L' (4/4)
2x2x3: R F' U2 F' (4/8)
F2L: B' R2 F R B F' U2 (7/15) (Sweet!)
Solve LL edges: F D2 B' D' B D' F' (7/22) (This is actually just an Sune conjugated with an M move, i.e. one of the double-layered Sune OLLs)
AUF: R (1/23)
Undo premove: U F' (2/25)
Corner 3-cycle remaining. Could've just done a Niklas after solving LL edges, but there's probably a better insertion with one more cancellation, too tired to think now, it's 5:15 in the morning here, I'll leave it for when I wake up.


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## JLarsen (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks blah for that tip on EJ pairs, and explaining speed blockbuilding and FMC blockbuilding. At least I'm good at one of those lol.


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## blah (Jul 14, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Thanks blah for that tip on EJ pairs, and explaining speed blockbuilding and FMC blockbuilding.



Say you build a 2x2x2: A B C D E (5), but can't find a good expansion into a 2x2x3, and even Johannes solver tells you the optimal solution to expand into a 2x2x3 is say, 7 moves. You get depressed 

Here's a nice trick I use very often: Look for a point (which may or may not exist) within the first 5 moves where all 4 2x2x2 pieces are not on any one (or more) face(s), do an X/X'/X2 turn on that face and proceed with your original solution. Now you have 9 more opportunities to expand into a 2x2x3 efficiently.

This is, in my opinion, the main difference between speed-blockbuilding and FMC-blockbuilding. Tell me if my explanation isn't clear enough.


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## JLarsen (Jul 14, 2009)

blah said:


> Sn3kyPandaMan said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks blah for that tip on EJ pairs, and explaining speed blockbuilding and FMC blockbuilding.
> ...



No I perfectly understand what you are saying thank you very much for your help.


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## MistArts (Jul 14, 2009)

blah said:


> What's a good number of moves for the first two 1x2x3 blocks for Roux? I did two solves and got 18 (7+11) and 17 (4+13), and I don't think it's good at all.
> 
> I'd attempt Roux if I get a nice 1x2x3 (<7 moves) but couldn't get a short sliced 1x1x3 (doesn't matter if the colors are matched or mismatched), is this a good approach? What would you guys do in this case?



My FM solve for weekly-28:

Scramble: D' B2 R2 B2 D U B2 U F2 L2 F2 R B' U B' F2 D' F' D L U' 



MistArts said:


> *FMC:* U D' F' D2 U' B L2 U' L2 U B U B' U' R2 L F' L R' D' U' B2 R2 F2 D' L2 F2 R L B' L R' (*32*)
> 
> 1x2x3: U D' F' D2 U' (5)
> Opposite 1x2x3: B L2 U' L2 U R' (11)
> ...



I think Roux has the potential to use in some cases, but not always.


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## AvGalen (Jul 15, 2009)

blah said:


> ...
> And one last thing, I think OLL/PLL is only good when you get an OLL with say, 8 moves or below, followed by A, U, T, J, or if you get cancellations, G. Or skip one of the steps. Or get a REALLY short F2L, say, 15 moves
> 
> I'd only use COLL if I get an EPLL skip, firstly because they're generally longer than OLL, and secondly because I hate inserting edge 3-cycles.
> ...


OLL+PLL is indeed a big no-no for FMC. Basically you want to get a skip on one of them (lucky) or manipulate the last layer during F2L so you end up with a 3-cycle (that you can insert) after F2L.

Inserting edge 3 cycles is easier because edges only have 2 orientations. If there is an 8 mover, there are probably many (not just 1 or 2 like with corners) so you have a bigger chance on cancellations. In this thread, you can find information about a really useful class of edge 3-cycles. Basically edge 3-cycles are less "reliable" than corner 3-cycles because they can be very short (6) or very long (12). Short edge-ones are less common then short corner-ones


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## blah (Jul 15, 2009)

Scramble: L' B2 D2 L' F2 L2 B2 D2 B2 L' D2 B' U' R2 D' R F' R' D L2 R' (21f)

2x2x2: D F' D2 R2 (4/4)
2x2x3: L2 U' F U F (5/9)
Triple x-cross: F L U L' F' (4/13)
LS + LL control: U' L' U2 L U' L F' L' F (9/22)
2 misoriented corners remaining.

Questions:
1. Is this a good ending? (I know it's acceptable in this case because I only took 22 moves so far, but what if I took, say, 25 moves to reach here, would this still be a decent ending?)
2. How would YOU twist the last 2 corners with an insertion in this case?
3. What are all the optimal algs (14 HTM) that twist any two corners?

By the way, interesting observation: No B moves in the solution so far 

----------

This would've been pretty decent for me if I knew optimal tripod:

X-cross: L2 R2 U2 B2 U' B' (6/6)
2nd F2L slot: L' U L F U2 F' (6/12)
3rd F2L slot: F' U' F (2/14)
Tripod: U B' U B U (5/19)


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 15, 2009)

blah said:


> 3. What are all the optimal algs (14 HTM) that twist any two corners?



14 HTM is *not* optimal.

The basic alg you should know is:

R' B D2 B' R U2 R' B D2 B' R U2 (12f*)

For other adjacent corners or centrally opposite corners, use the same alg with a setup move such that you get a cancellation between the setup move (or undo setup move) with the alg itself.

EDIT (appending):
For the example, you could insert the following at the end:
F' R D2 R' F U2 F' R D2 R' F U2

The first move cancels the last move of the skeleton, giving a 32-move solution. There may be a better insertion elsewhere, though.


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## blah (Jul 17, 2009)

I've come to the conclusion that I can almost always find relatively good starts, but really, really suck at the end. So I decided that I could use some help from the pros here. How would YOU end each of the following scrambles with the start I provided? I'm hoping to see some sub-30 solutions here 

This is from this week's forum competition scramble.

Premoves + Scramble: B2 F D' + F R2 F2 R2 B' D2 R2 B' L' B2 F' D F U2 F U' R' F U2 L'
1x2x3: L' U' B' R D2 L2 (6/6)
Triple x-cross: F' D' F' D' B2 (5/11)
11 + 3 = 14-move triple x-cross. How would you solve the rest of this?

Scramble: F R2 F2 R2 B' D2 R2 B' L' B2 F' D F U2 F U' R' F U2 L'
1x2x3: L' U' B' R D2 L2 (6/6)
Triple x-cross: F' D' F' D' F' B2 U F2 B2 (9/15)
How would you solve the rest of this?

----------

After I produced a poor solution, just for fun, I gave myself another hour for the inverse scramble.

Premove + scramble: F' + L U2 F' R U F' U2 F' D' F B2 L B R2 D2 B R2 F2 R2 F'
1x2x3: R B2 D R F D2 * (6/6)
2x2x3: R' F' (2/8)
8 + 1 = 9-move 2x2x3, which is pretty good for me. How would you solve the rest of this? (B/B'/B2 move can be added at * for more opportunities.)

My best triple x-cross was this:
2x2x3: R B2 D R F D2 *B' R' F' (9/9)
Triple x-cross: L' B2 L U (4/13)
(Undo premove: F' (1/14))

My best F2L was this:
2x2x3: R B2 D R F D2 *B R' F' (9/9)
F2L: L' B L2 F U F' U L' U (9/18)
(Undo premove: F' (1/19))

But I couldn't find good continuations to either of these.


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## blah (Jul 17, 2009)

Further proof that I'm terrible at FMC endings  Can anyone provide nice solutions for these too?

I found 2 8-move 2x2x3s in the first 15 minutes. And I still DNFed 45 minutes later 

Scramble 1 (for 3x3x3 speed) of this week's forum competition: D2 L2 U2 L2 D F2 U2 R2 B2 U' F' R' B L D2 F2 R D' R2 B2 U

No premoves.
2x2x2: F' D' R B (4/4)
2x2x3: L F2 L2 D' (4/8)

Premove: B2 (1/1)
1x2x3: D' R B' R (4/5)
2x2x3: B2 D' B2 (3/8)
EO: L' U' L R U R' (6/14)
Triple x-cross: U2 F U2 F2 (4/18)
Remaining edges: U' F' U2 F (4/22)
Didn't have time to look for insertions.

Premove: B2 (1/1)
1x2x3: D' R B' R (4/5)
2x2x3: B2 D' B2 (3/8)
EO: R' F2 R2 U R' (5/13)
Triple x-cross: U2 F U2 F2 (4/17)
3/4 F2L + ELS in 17 moves. But stuck 

For some reason I always get stuck at the end and my mind just blanks out...


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## blah (Jul 17, 2009)

Noob question about insertions: Do you guys really use post-its? I tried it for the first time just now and they fall off after every two turns... *helpless*


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 17, 2009)

blah said:


> Noob question about insertions: Do you guys really use post-its? I tried it for the first time just now and they fall off after every two turns... *helpless*


I've used post-its a lot. And yeah, definitely I have the same problem. Sometimes I add tape to the back of the post-its, and that helps for a little while. But I think the best thing would be to get some extra Cubesmith stickers or something, and use those. I keep meaning to do that, but I never get around to it.


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## blah (Jul 17, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> I've used post-its a lot. And yeah, definitely I have the same problem. Sometimes I add tape to the back of the post-its, and that helps for a little while. But I think the best thing would be to get some extra Cubesmith stickers or something, and use those. I keep meaning to do that, but I never get around to it.



I've had an idea, but I don't know if it's practical, I'd like to know what you guys think of it since you've definitely had more experience with other weird methods to track insertions.

Since I'm allowed three cubes, and I've been doing fine with only one so far, I thought I could leave the third cube blank, i.e. unstickered, and always have a set of Cubesmith stickers ready. The simplest example I can think of to describe this is an A-perm: sticker the three U positions yellow, the three clockwise positions blue, and the three counterclockwise positions red, now write 1, 2 and 3 on each of those stickers (which denotes their respective orders in the cycle). In case it wasn't clear enough, each sticker on the same piece must share the same number.

Since every interchangeable sticker is of same color and labeled with numbers, it's very easy to see which two pieces are interchangeable instantly (especially on a blank cube) because you'd have two same colors on the same face. My problem with insertions is that I take a while to realize that 2 pieces are interchangeable if the specific stickers I'm tracing are not on the same face. E.g. FRU and LFU are interchangeable, but I take a while to notice this, it'd be much easier to notice this if I see that UFR and ULF share the same color.

So with this approach, at any point in the solution when 2 same-colored stickers are not on the same face, you know instantly that an 8-mover is not possible. Obviously, when 3 are on the same face, an 8-mover is also not possible.

Besides, with three "angles" to look at the commutator, you'd see it more quickly than with only one "angle".

So, what do you think?

As for preparation, obviously you could have a blank cube with 5 corners (and edges) labeled and numbered prepared before competition.

P/S: In case you were wondering, I'd use the second cube for the inverse scramble


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 17, 2009)

blah said:


> I've come to the conclusion that I can almost always find relatively good starts, but really, really suck at the end. So I decided that I could use some help from the pros here. How would YOU end each of the following scrambles with the start I provided? I'm hoping to see some sub-30 solutions here
> 
> This is from this week's forum competition scramble.
> 
> ...


R U R2 F R F' . (6/17)
B' R' U' R U B U (7/24)
insert at .: R B L B' R' B L' B' (8/32)
B' B' become B2, so one move cancels; 31 moves; with the premoves, 34 moves.

I guess it's not very good (nowhere near sub-30), but I would be happy with it, because I'm not very good. I wish I had found this start - I would have been very happy!


Oh, and I think your idea for stickers seems pretty good - it would certainly give you an advantage on doing insertions. But I'm not sure I'd be willing to work that hard to prepare for it; I think it would require some practice with that to get good at it, just because of the mechanics of it all.


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## blah (Jul 17, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> blah said:
> 
> 
> > I've come to the conclusion that I can almost always find relatively good starts, but really, really suck at the end. So I decided that I could use some help from the pros here. How would YOU end each of the following scrambles with the start I provided? I'm hoping to see some sub-30 solutions here
> ...


I'd always be happy with any sub-35 solve!  At least for now and for the rest of the year I guess...

May I know what your thought process was for that solution? I'd never have thought of that! Was it really just an F2L insertion followed by the 6-move OLL as it appears to be? Despite having done lots of research on LS + LL methods, I realize that's actually my biggest weakness in FMC - I think it's actually worked against me, I've been spending too much of my cubing life thinking of braindead ways to solve LS + LL that I can't come up with short and easy solutions on the fly now 

Actually I'd be happy to give you tips for good starts, but with your experience in the event, I'm not sure it'll be worth anything  I use a very algorithmic approach, actually, which kind of insults the elegance of FMC, I regret to say. (Algorithm as in Euclidean Algorithm, not as in PLL algorithm, hope you get what I mean.) I'll try to polish up my 2x2x3 approach before I share it - I may have been just lucky enough to get good starts for the majority of my attempts so far


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 17, 2009)

blah said:


> May I know what your thought process was for that solution? I'd never have thought of that! Despite having done lots of research on LS + LL methods, I realize that's actually my biggest weakness in FMC - I think it's actually worked against me, I've been spending too much of my cubing life thinking of braindead ways to solve LS + LL that I can't come up with short and easy solutions on the fly now


Actually, it's one of my main "techniques". Not much of a technique, but it's a quick and dirty way to get a solution about 1/3 of the time that at least isn't terrible. It's how I manage to almost never DNF, and usually come in sub-40. I just do the stupid simple thing and insert the fourth pair, exactly like I would with a normal Fridrich solution. If there are multiple ways that I know, I try them all. This one worked pretty good with just 6 moves. (When this doesn't work, sometimes I'll just try to solve all the edges and see if I can get 5 permuted corners. If so, then I can try 2 insertions.)

Then I start trying OLLs as fast as I can, to see if one can solve edges and leave just 3 corners to make a good insertion. This one was really lucky because a 6-move OLL actually gave me one. You can't beat that - any time I get one of those, I'm elated. If I were any good, I wouldn't go beyond 7-move OLLs with this, but I stink, so I often go as far as the 9 or 10 movers, figuring if I get a good insertion, it still at least won't be terrible. But I'm sure I waste too much time doing that - the 6- and 7-movers are probably all that are really worth trying.



blah said:


> Actually I'd be happy to give you tips for good starts, but with your experience in the event, I'm not sure it'll be worth anything  I use a very algorithmic approach, actually. (Algorithm as in Euclidean Algorithm, not as in PLL algorithm, hope you get what I mean.) I'll try to polish up my 2x2x3 approach before I share it - I may have been just lucky enough to get good starts for the majority of my attempts so far



An algorithmic approach would be great - I'm an engineer at heart, not a scientist. I generally don't particularly care why something works; I just want to make it work.


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## joey (Jul 17, 2009)

blah said:


> This is from this week's forum competition scramble.
> 
> Premoves + Scramble: B2 F D' + F R2 F2 R2 B' D2 R2 B' L' B2 F' D F U2 F U' R' F U2 L'
> 1x2x3: L' U' B' R D2 L2 (6/6)
> ...



F2L + OLL: F' U' F R U' R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R U2 (13)
Left with a 3-cycle of corners though.


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 18, 2009)

blah said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > I've used post-its a lot. And yeah, definitely I have the same problem. Sometimes I add tape to the back of the post-its, and that helps for a little while. But I think the best thing would be to get some extra Cubesmith stickers or something, and use those. I keep meaning to do that, but I never get around to it.
> ...



I seem to recall blank cubes being discussed somewhere, and that it seems to be a clear violation of WCA regulations as currently stated. Personally I think such an exception for fewest moves solving is perfectly reasonable, but I think the next round of regulations should be more explicit about what's legal for fewest moves.

Personally, I like to have the cube stickered because it helps me to keep track of what moves I've made on the cube.

I find that mailing labels or stickers that come with video tapes or other media stick better and last longer than Post-It Notes.


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## blah (Jul 18, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> Then I start trying OLLs as fast as I can, to see if one can solve edges and leave just 3 corners to make a good insertion. This one was really lucky because a 6-move OLL actually gave me one. You can't beat that - any time I get one of those, I'm elated. If I were any good, I wouldn't go beyond 7-move OLLs with this, but I stink, so I often go as far as the 9 or 10 movers, figuring if I get a good insertion, it still at least won't be terrible. But I'm sure I waste too much time doing that - the 6- and 7-movers are probably all that are really worth trying.


I did a quick study on this.

2 adjacent edges oriented: 2 6-movers, 4 7-movers, 24 8-movers.
2 opposite edges oriented: 4 6-movers, 0 7-movers, 12 8-movers.

These include mirrors, but not AUFs, i.e. I've discounted the algs with leading or trailing U/U'/U2 turns. I've also discounted stupid algs like D-conjugated ones.

Pros and cons of each case are pretty straightforward. With 2 adjacent edges oriented, you get more chances at a short solution. With 2 opposite edges oriented, you get more chances at an optimal solution.

I don't know about the 8-movers yet, but it's pretty obvious that for the adjacent case, the 2 6-movers are F U R U' R' F' and its mirror, while the 4 7-movers are the M-conjugated Sunes (or double-layered Sunes as some might call it); for the opposite case, the 4 6-movers are F R U R' U' F' and its mirrors.

So Mike, I think the 8-movers are pretty worthwhile. Just by adding one move, you get 36 more opportunities at an easy insertion (which will definitely have to cancel more than 1 move anyway) 

Edit: Here it is in case anyone's interested:

2 adjacent edges oriented:
L' U' B' U B L (6f*)
B U L U' L' B' (6f*)
R B L' B L B2 R' (7f)
F' L' B L' B' L2 F (7f)
L' B2 R B R' B L (7f)
B L2 F' L' F L' B' (7f)
R U R' F' L' U' L F (8f)
R U B' R B R' U' R' (8f)
R U2 R' F2 L F L' F (8f)
R B L U' L' U B' R' (8f)
R' U2 R U2 R B' R' B (8f)
F U2 F' U2 F' L F L' (8f)
F' U2 F R2 B' R' B R' (8f)
F' U' F R B U B' R' (8f)
F' U' L F' L' F U F (8f)
F' L' B' U B U' L F (8f)
L F U' F' L' B' U B (8f)
L' U' L2 F' L' F2 U' F' (8f)
L' B L F' L2 B' L2 F (8f)
L' B L B' U2 B' U2 B (8f)
L' B L B' U' B' U B (8f)
L' B L' B' L2 F U2 F' (8f)
L' B2 R B2 L B' R' B (8f)
B U B2 R B R2 U R (8f)
B L2 F' L2 B' L F L' (8f)
B L' B L B2 R' U2 R (8f)
B L' B' R B2 L B2 R' (8f)
B L' B' L U L U' L' (8f)
B L' B' L U2 L U2 L' (8f)
B' R' U R B L U' L' (8f)

2 opposite edges oriented:
F R U R' U' F' (6f*)
F' L' U' L U F (6f*)
B L U L' U' B' (6f*)
B' R' U' R U B (6f*)
R U R' U' R' F R F' (8f)
R' U' R U R B' R' B (8f)
F U F R' F' R U' F' (8f)
F R U' B U B' R' F' (8f)
F' U' F' L F L' U F (8f)
F' L' U B' U' B L F (8f)
L U L' U' L' B L B' (8f)
L' U' L U L F' L' F (8f)
B U B L' B' L U' B' (8f)
B L U' F U F' L' B' (8f)
B' U' B' R B R' U B (8f)
B' R' U F' U' F R B (8f)


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## mrCage (Jul 18, 2009)

blah said:


> Sn3kyPandaMan said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks blah for that tip on EJ pairs, and explaining speed blockbuilding and FMC blockbuilding.
> ...


 
Well, no it's not. The main difference lies in that in FMC you can explore many options. No need/time for that when speeding. The more options you can explore the more likely to get "lucky". In it's nature speed solcing is linear, not taking back/undoing any turns. In FMC you can take bck turns and explore many paths. Normally you cannot know (early in the solve anyway) which path is better ...

Per


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 18, 2009)

blah said:


> So Mike, I think the 8-movers are pretty worthwhile. Just by adding one move, you get 36 more opportunities at an easy insertion (which will definitely have to cancel more than 1 move anyway)


Huh. I guess I didn't think about how many 8-movers there were. For some reason I was expecting there to be fewer. I'm probably missing some of them when I'm trying them - I should go over them so I know exactly what they are.

And yeah, I have had a couple of pretty nice solves with 8-movers before, so I guess you're right. So I take back what I said.


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## blah (Jul 18, 2009)

*MAYDAY. I really suck at insertions.*

This week's forum competiton's scramble 3 for 3x3x3 speedsolve.

Premoves + inverse scramble: B F' + F' L' D L D2 B' R F R2 U2 F2 D F2 D2 R2 L2 F2 D B2 D' L2

2x2x2: L2 U' *B2 R' F2 (5/5) (*B2 inserted to simplify 2x2x3 expansion)
2x2x3: D R' B2 (3/8)
Triple x-cross: B R B' D' R F' R' F (7/15)
Last slot + AUF: D B' D B R' B R B' + D2 (9/24)
Undo premoves: B F' (2/26)
Corner 3-cycle remaining.

Pseudo-solution for inverse scramble: L2 U' B2 R' F2 D R' B' R B' D' R F' R' F D B' D B R' B R B' D2 B F'

I went through the whole solution twice, and I couldn't find a single insertion point with at least one cancellation!    Can anyone help me?

Question: Is there any difference in looking for insertion points in any of the following: Inverse solution without premoves, inverse solution with premoves, forward solution? What I'm trying to say is, for example, if I look for insertion points in the inverse solution with premoves and don't find one at all, will I find one in the inverse solution without premoves, or the forward solution? Please tell me if my question isn't clear enough.


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## blah (Jul 18, 2009)

mrCage said:


> blah said:
> 
> 
> > Sn3kyPandaMan said:
> ...


You're right.

I guess I was thinking of the difference between "normal" FMC and linear FMC


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## blah (Jul 18, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> blah said:
> 
> 
> > So Mike, I think the 8-movers are pretty worthwhile. Just by adding one move, you get 36 more opportunities at an easy insertion (which will definitely have to cancel more than 1 move anyway)
> ...


I'm guessing it's possible to memorize how all 46 of those OLLs affect edge permutation (you already know how it affects orientation) with relatively little effort as compared to say, learning full OLL. This'll probably save a lot of time wasted trial-and-error-ing. What do you think?


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## MistArts (Jul 18, 2009)

blah said:


> Noob question about insertions: Do you guys really use post-its? I tried it for the first time just now and they fall off after every two turns... *helpless*



Flags work much better. I've been using the same five flags for about half a year now.


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## Jude (Jul 18, 2009)

Ok, here's a scramble for you FMC guys. It's the one from the UK Masters:
L B2 F2 R2 D2 R' F2 L U2 R' F2 L' F L2 B2 F' R' B2 F' U' L2

I thought this scramble was horrible, and I'm pretty annoyed my only competetion FMC solution was sup 30.. my solution was pretty poor. Can any of you find a better one?

My solution was:
X-Cross: x2 U L' U2 F L' F' D R D2 F2 (10/10)
2nd Pair: U' L' U2 L U2 L' U2 L (8/18)
3rd Pair: U2 y R U' R' (4/22)
4th Pair: U' R' U' R (4/26)
LL: R U R' U R U2 R' U' (8-1/33)


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## Johannes91 (Jul 18, 2009)

Jude said:


> L B2 F2 R2 D2 R' F2 L U2 R' F2 L' F L2 B2 F' R' B2 F' U' L2
> 
> I thought this scramble was horrible, and I'm pretty annoyed my only competetion FMC solution was sup 30..


Horrible? There are two ce-pairs that can be used easily. Annoyed? Your solution is really lucky, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect a sub-30 with Fridrich.

You also wrote it down wrong. The first U2 in 2nd pair should be U'.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 18, 2009)

blah said:


> I'm guessing it's possible to memorize how all 46 of those OLLs affect edge permutation (you already know how it affects orientation) with relatively little effort as compared to say, learning full OLL. This'll probably save a lot of time wasted trial-and-error-ing. What do you think?


One of the FMC masters (I think it was Guus) was acting surprised in another thread when I told him I hadn't already done that. I think it's obvious that if you want to be really good at FMC, you should. It would REALLY help for this trick. I've just been too lazy to work that hard yet at it.


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## blah (Jul 18, 2009)

Wait, I don't get one thing. What was he trying to imply when he acted surprised?


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## blah (Jul 18, 2009)

Jude said:


> Ok, here's a scramble for you FMC guys. It's the one from the UK Masters:
> L B2 F2 R2 D2 R' F2 L U2 R' F2 L' F L2 B2 F' R' B2 F' U' L2


WOOT! 33-move solution in 27 minutes! (Incidentally, that's a 33-move solution with 33 minutes left to go ) This is easily my best solution by far in terms of its (solution length) : (time taken) ratio 

Inverse scramble: L2 U F B2 R F B2 L2 F' L F2 R U2 L' F2 R D2 R2 F2 B2 L'

1x2x3: F2 L2 U' L D2 B2 (6/6)
Opposite 1x2x3: B R2 B' L2 R U' R (6/12)
CxLL: R U R' U R U2 R' (6/18)
All but 6 edges: U2 . L' (2/20)
Edge 3-cycle insertion at .: U R L' B2 .. R' L U (6/26)
Edge double-2-cycle insertion at ..: B R2 L2 D2 R2 L2 U2 B' (7/33)

Inverse solution: F2 L2 U' L D2 B' R2 B' L2 R U' R2 U R' U R U2 R' U' R L' B' R2 L2 D2 R2 L2 U2 B' R' L U L'
Solution: L U' L' R B U2 L2 R2 D2 L2 R2 B L R' U R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U R' L2 B R2 B D2 L' U L2 F2 (33, it's 29 STM by the way )

It's nowhere near my shortest solution, but it's one of my better ones, and I'm especially satisfied with this because I don't think I could've bettered any of the steps even with 33 minutes to go  So I just spent the rest of the hour smiling to myself and kept doing and redoing the solution to make sure it worked 

I spent 2 or 3 minutes with the original scramble, gave up, then tried the inverse. I got to the "all but 6 edges" stage in 10 minutes. Rest of the time was spent hunting for insertion points. Told you I suck at insertions 

The only reason I was able to finish up to step 3 of Roux so quickly was because my solution was almost linear. Try it yourself, it's very straightforward! So I guess this shouldn't really count as a legitimate solution because it was really, really lucky  I'm sure any competent Roux user will be able to get a much better solution with the inverse scramble 

That said, this solution marks many firsts for me:
1. First solution under 30 minutes.
2. First (non-DNF) Roux solution.
3. First solution with edge cycle insertions.
4. First solution with a double-2-cycle insertion.
5. First solution with 2 insertions completed in time.
6. First solution in which I didn't have a backup and just went with my original starting moves  Risky!

Would've been an AsR  I hope I get to a competition soon. I really love FMC. I don't want it to end up like BLD: I had my first (and only) competition after I quit BLD, so I got a DNF and a lousy time 

Edit: Now that I've seen Jude's solution, I feel kinda lousy that my solution was only as good as a Fridrich solution  Guess I've still got a lot of work to put into my FMC


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## fanwuq (Jul 18, 2009)

U2L2RUD2FL2FB'LBDL'D'LDL2D
F2R2B2D'R2F2L2U'
LDLD'L'DL2F

34 moves
Skeleton in 3 minutes. I suck at edge insertions.


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## blah (Jul 19, 2009)

Oh yeah. THOSE 8-move edge 3-cycles. Haven't learned 'em yet


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## mrCage (Jul 19, 2009)

cuBerBruce said:


> For other adjacent corners or centrally opposite corners, use the same alg with a setup move such that you get a cancellation between the setup move (or undo setup move) with the alg itself.


 
Cyclical shifts of that same algorithm is also useful

Per


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## Jude (Jul 19, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> Horrible? There are two ce-pairs that can be used easily.


And I couldn't continue either of them into anything nice, hence I found it horrible. 



Johannes91 said:


> Annoyed? Your solution is really lucky.


Yes, annoyed. The point is that it's lucky and still bad. My solution is sup 30 even WITH a skip (Although, it is 'engineered' - I found an F2L in 4 moves less which left a U perm. In fact, I spent almost 20 minutes TRYING to find an F2L which also solved the last 3 U edges too, so I'm not sure I'd call it "really lucky").



Johannes91 said:


> I don't think it's reasonable to expect a sub-30 with Fridrich.



I think it is and I base this on experience. I use Fridrich and I think this is my 2nd worst solve ever. In fact, I think I've done just over 10 solves in my whole life (all with Fridrich) and almost half of them were sub 30.



Johannes91 said:


> You also wrote it down wrong. The first U2 in 2nd pair should be U'.


Thanks, I fixed that now.


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## Johannes91 (Jul 19, 2009)

Jude said:


> Johannes91 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think it's reasonable to expect a sub-30 with Fridrich.
> ...


Wow. That's better than what most can do using FMC techniques. I take that back, then.


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## Jude (Jul 19, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> Jude said:
> 
> 
> > Johannes91 said:
> ...



I actually went back and checked my FMC submissions and I was overestimating a bit. It's probably actually a bit less than half (4/11 or something). I edited my other post.


----------



## mrCage (Jul 19, 2009)

Jude said:


> Johannes91 said:
> 
> 
> > Jude said:
> ...


 
Please allow me do doubt your claims about fridrich for FMC. Pure fridrich with 2-look LL would take for the last layer alone about 20 turns. Clearly you do a non-standard fridrich f2l in order to achieve such low move counts In fact i strongly doubt that ANY standard speed cubing method could reach so low move counts on average ...

Per


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## Jude (Jul 19, 2009)

mrCage said:


> Jude said:
> 
> 
> > Johannes91 said:
> ...



I normally make a extended or (or double extended) cross, then mess about with the F2L pairs until I can either engineer an OLL skip or something that will lead to an easy LL. If possible, I also use insertions if I have a 3 cycle or something. Sometimes I don't put the last edge/corner in and include it in my LL insertion or something like that too, but I don't think I've ever done a 2LLL so maybe it's not pure Fridrich. Here's one of my best ever solutions as an example.

(Scramble: D2 R2 D2 R' B2 L' B2 L2 R' F2 R2 B' F D' B2 L' F' D2 F' U' R')

Cross on R

2x2x1 (3): D2 B D2
Double X-Cross (6): U' R' F2 D' F R'
3rd Pair (7): U' L' U L' B' L B
Last Pair + LL (12): B L B' L' U' L U L' U' L2 U L2
B + B cancels to B2 to give
D2 B D2 U' R' F2 D' F R' U' L' U L' B' L B2 L B' L' U' L U L' U' L2 U L2 (27)


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## stray (Jul 20, 2009)

Jude said:


> Ok, here's a scramble for you FMC guys. It's the one from the UK Masters:
> L B2 F2 R2 D2 R' F2 L U2 R' F2 L' F L2 B2 F' R' B2 F' U' L2
> 
> I thought this scramble was horrible, and I'm pretty annoyed my only competetion FMC solution was sup 30.. my solution was pretty poor. Can any of you find a better one?
> ...





fmc:U2 B2 U B2 U' R D F2 U2 D2 B F' R2 D' L' D R2 D' L F B2 L B L2 D L D2 (27)

U2 B2 U B2 U' R D F2 U2 block 2x3 (9) 
D2 B F' D'* F Pse-f2l minus 1 slot (14)
B2 L B L2 D L D2 leave 3 corner (21)
*insert: [DR2D',L'] (27)

I love this 'horrible' scramble, 27 move is my PB. I have done some weeks competition, only get two 29 move solution with lucky two 3-cycles insetion.
I think this is better in block building,which is my weaknesses.


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## blah (Jul 20, 2009)

stray said:


> fmc:U2 B2 U B2 U' R D F2 U2 D2 B F' R2 D' L' D R2 D' L F B2 L B L2 D L D2 (27)
> 
> U2 B2 U B2 U' R D F2 U2 block 2x3 (9)
> D2 B F' D'* F Pse-f2l minus 1 slot (14)
> ...



May I know how you came up with this? I've been trying it over and over again but all I see is just random moves and suddenly there are just 3 corners left


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## blah (Jul 20, 2009)

This week's scramble 5 for 3x3x3 speedsolve: U2 R2 U' R2 D B2 D2 U R2 U F2 R' B F R2 D B R' F' L B2

1x2x3: B U R B2 R B2 L (7/7)
Opposite 1x2x2: D' F' D' (3/10)
3 corners and 5 edges left: F D' . F D (3/13)
Corner 3-cycle insertion at .: D L D' R' D L' D' R (7/20)

I need help with inserting the remaining 5 edges. Anyone got a good solution?

(One of my shortest skeletons so far )


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## stray (Jul 20, 2009)

blah said:


> stray said:
> 
> 
> > fmc:U2 B2 U B2 U' R D F2 U2 D2 B F' R2 D' L' D R2 D' L F B2 L B L2 D L D2 (27)
> ...



it's Pse-f2l, premove D' will help you, it's so easy ending like RUR'...
I am lazy for scrambleing again, so just do it without premove to see whether
anything good exists. Seems I am lucky this time


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 20, 2009)

blah said:


> stray said:
> 
> 
> > fmc:U2 B2 U B2 U' R D F2 U2 D2 B F' R2 D' L' D R2 D' L F B2 L B L2 D L D2 (27)
> ...



Think of it as just trying to solve the edges, and the corners miraculously come out close. If you think of it as trying to solve the edges, the moves in bold all make pretty much sense. At least, that's how I might have come up with this. I could see myself getting this, but the corners being just a 3-cycle would be lucky. I often try this on solves, though, just to see how bad the corners come out.


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## stray (Jul 20, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> blah said:
> 
> 
> > stray said:
> ...



yes, I don't kown many LL algs to manage all the pieces especially corners, only 4 OLL and 4 Pll...

So I just try to solve egdes in accepted moves, sometimes insert 1-2 moves to get lucky. Then all I do is pray


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## dbax0999 (Jul 20, 2009)

blah said:


> Jude said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, here's a scramble for you FMC guys. It's the one from the UK Masters:
> ...



Isn't that an edge cycle? You might want to correct that. Great solution though!


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## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

dbax0999 said:


> blah said:
> 
> 
> > Jude said:
> ...


Oh yeah, thanks for spotting that


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## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

All 6-move edge 5-cycles:

U R U' D B' D' (6f*)
U R L' B' R' L (6f*)
U R' U' D B D' (6f*)
U R' L F' R L' (6f*)
U F U' D R' D' (6f*)
U F B' R' F' B (6f*)
U F' U' D R D' (6f*)
U F' B L' F B' (6f*)
U D' R U' D B' (6f*)
U D' R' U' D B (6f*)
U D' F U' D R' (6f*)
U D' F' U' D R (6f*)
U D' L U' D F' (6f*)
U D' L' U' D F (6f*)
U D' B U' D L' (6f*)
U D' B' U' D L (6f*)
U L U' D F' D' (6f*)
U L' U' D F D' (6f*)
U B U' D L' D' (6f*)
U B' U' D L D' (6f*)
U' R U D' F' D (6f*)
U' R L' B R' L (6f*)
U' R' U D' F D (6f*)
U' R' L F R L' (6f*)
U' F U D' L' D (6f*)
U' F B' R F' B (6f*)
U' F' U D' L D (6f*)
U' F' B L F B' (6f*)
U' D R U D' F' (6f*)
U' D R' U D' F (6f*)
U' D F U D' L' (6f*)
U' D F' U D' L (6f*)
U' D L U D' B' (6f*)
U' D L' U D' B (6f*)
U' D B U D' R' (6f*)
U' D B' U D' R (6f*)
U' L U D' B' D (6f*)
U' L' U D' B D (6f*)
U' B U D' R' D (6f*)
U' B' U D' R D (6f*)

I looked deeper into them, and found that there are 3 types of "algorithms":

1. S F S' F' 
2. F S F' S'
3. Conjugated S F S' F'
(S = quarter slice turn; F = quarter face turn, which obviously cannot be parallel to S)

The first two are pretty straightforward. I found the third one pretty interesting, I'll describe it with an example:

U D' R U' D B' is a Type 1 "algorithm". Using D as a setup move, we get D (U D' R U' D B') D' = U R U' D B' D', which is a Type 3 "algorithm". That's it, that's what all the Type 3 algs are.

I doubt knowing 5-cycles are gonna be very useful in FMC, but at least knowing all the 6-movers can turn a nasty situation into a very nice one if you're lucky enough


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## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

All 6-move edge double-2-cycles:

U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 (6f*) 
U2 R2 U2 D2 L2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 R2 U2 L2 D2 L2 (6f*) 
U2 R2 F2 B2 R2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 R2 D2 R2 U2 L2 (6f*) 
U2 R2 D2 L2 D2 R2 (6f*) 
U2 R2 L2 U2 F2 B2 (6f*) 
U2 R2 L2 F2 B2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L2 (6f*) 
U2 F2 U2 F2 U2 F2 (6f*) 
U2 F2 U2 D2 B2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 F2 U2 B2 D2 B2 (6f*) 
U2 F2 R2 L2 F2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 F2 D2 F2 U2 B2 (6f*) 
U2 F2 D2 B2 D2 F2 (6f*) 
U2 F2 B2 U2 R2 L2 (6f*) 
U2 F2 B2 R2 L2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 F2 B2 D2 F2 B2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 R2 U2 D2 L2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 R2 F2 B2 R2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 R2 L2 F2 B2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 F2 U2 D2 B2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 F2 R2 L2 F2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 F2 B2 R2 L2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 L2 U2 D2 R2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 L2 F2 B2 L2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 B2 U2 D2 F2 (6f*) 
U2 D2 B2 R2 L2 B2 (6f*) 
U2 L2 U2 R2 D2 R2 (6f*) 
U2 L2 U2 D2 R2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L2 (6f*) 
U2 L2 F2 B2 L2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 L2 D2 R2 D2 L2 (6f*) 
U2 L2 D2 L2 U2 R2 (6f*) 
U2 B2 U2 F2 D2 F2 (6f*) 
U2 B2 U2 D2 F2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B2 (6f*) 
U2 B2 R2 L2 B2 D2 (6f*) 
U2 B2 D2 F2 D2 B2 (6f*) 
U2 B2 D2 B2 U2 F2 (6f*)

I have no idea how these work. Can anyone help me with this? I've found 7 types  I'm pretty sure it can be reduced to only 3 or 4 types but I don't know how 

(*A* and *B* are adjacent faces. *a* is the face opposite *A*. *b* is the face opposite *B*.)

1. A2 B2 A2 B2 A2 B2
2. A2 a2 B2 A2 a2 b2 = S2 F2 S2 F2
3. A2 B2 A2 a2 b2 a2 = a2 + type 2 + a2
4. A2 B2 A2 b2 a2 b2 = type 3 + type 1
5. A2 B2 a2 B2 A2 b2 = b2 + type 4 + b2
6. A2 B2 a2 b2 a2 B2 = A2 + type 4 + A2
7. A2 B2 b2 a2 B2 b2 = F2 S2 F2 S2


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## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

All 6-move edge 3-cycles:

1. S F2 S' F2
2. F2 S F2 S'
3. Conjugated S F2 S' F2 (read two posts above for explanation)
(S = quarter slice turn; F2 = half face turn)

----------

I don't know how handy this'll be, but... all 6-move edge double-3-cycles:

1. S2 F S2 F'
2. F S2 F' S2
3. Conjugated S2 F S2 F' (read two posts above for explanation)
(S2 = half slice turn; F = quarter face turn)


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## stray (Jul 21, 2009)

blah said:


> All 6-move edge 5-cycles:
> 
> U R U' D B' D' (6f*)
> U R L' B' R' L (6f*)
> ...



So nice to share these. I don't realize it's edges 5-cycles even if I have done this moves before:fp

I'm intersting about how you get all this algs?


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## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

stray said:


> So nice to share these. I don't realize it's edges 5-cycles even if I have done this moves before:fp
> 
> I'm intersting about how you get all this algs?



Cube Explorer  I only know such primitive means to get things done


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## stray (Jul 21, 2009)

blah said:


> Cube Explorer  I only know such primitive means to get things done


?

How it works? I have Acube insead.

Just choose 5 edges to solve? how do you know it will be 6 moves. 
I'm noob in this program.


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## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

stray said:


> blah said:
> 
> 
> > Cube Explorer  I only know such primitive means to get things done
> ...


Gray out all the edges. Solve. Sort all the 6-movers manually.

//order 3: 3-cycle or double-3-cycle.
//order 2: Double-2-cycle or some random useless large n-cycle.
(nothing): 5-cycle.

Took me 2 or 3 minutes to sort them out, and another 5 or so to classify them into types. It's no big task, really


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## stray (Jul 21, 2009)

blah said:


> Took me 2 or 3 minutes to sort them out, and another 5 or so to classify them into types. It's no big task, really



Good job, big task for me,I'm slow almost in everything,so did't learn cfop for speedcubing, do fmc just for fun. I really think you'll be the fmc master someday~


----------



## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

stray said:


> blah said:
> 
> 
> > Took me 2 or 3 minutes to sort them out, and another 5 or so to classify them into types. It's no big task, really
> ...


I think it's already clear that I had a hell lot of beginner's luck when I started  To be honest, I average ~40 now despite doing 2 or 3 solves a day  So I don't think I'll ever get close to being an FMC master, but still, it's a fun event that I enjoy doing and one that I'll probably never give up because it's different from speed events in that it doesn't take much practice to maintain one's standard in FMC 

On the other hand, I think it's great to be able to "do FMC just for fun" and still be so good in it like you are!


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## Zeroknight (Jul 21, 2009)

Hey guys. Is it humanly possible to utilize a variant of the two-phase algorithm (used from Cube Explorer) during FMC. I'm thinking of this, and I'm currently looking for papers about the two-phase, but I can only find descriptions, not any papers.


----------



## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

Zeroknight said:


> Hey guys. Is it humanly possible to utilize a variant of the two-phase algorithm (used from Cube Explorer) during FMC. I'm thinking of this, and I'm currently looking for papers about the two-phase, but I can only find descriptions, not any papers.


Human Thistlethwaite.


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## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

blah said:


> All 6-move edge5-cycles:
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


I've found a use for these  I don't have hard stats yet, but I believe it's not uncommon to have a Roux ending with 2 edges flipped and 3 edges to be cycled. Here's the most efficient solution I can't think of: Use a 5-cycle (insertion) to solve 2 of the 5 edges, and then a 3-cycle (insertion) to solve the remaining 3. I think with some cancellations it's possible to solve the remaining 5 edges in 10 moves or fewer. Is this a good idea?


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## Zeroknight (Jul 21, 2009)

> Human Thistlethwaite.



Right, I always remember I have to look it up, but never do. I hope I get it done this time, thanks.


----------



## Johannes91 (Jul 21, 2009)

Zeroknight said:


> I'm currently looking for papers about the two-phase, but I can only find descriptions, not any papers.


What kind of papers do you need and what for?


----------



## Zeroknight (Jul 21, 2009)

'Paper(s)' is computer-nerd jargon for something written about something (but I mean, you probably know that, you have php in your sig ). So in this case, I'm looking for something (like an article, for example) about the two-phase algorithm. Why, what did you think I meant?


----------



## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

Zeroknight said:


> 'Paper(s)' is computer-nerd jargon for something written about something (but I mean, you probably know that, you have php in your sig ). So in this case, I'm looking for something (like an article, for example) about the two-phase algorithm. Why, what did you think I meant?


So you mean documentation?

@Johannes: _That's_ PHP? I've been wondering for a while now. Looks nothing like the noob PHP I've learned


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## fanwuq (Jul 21, 2009)

Zeroknight said:


> 'Paper(s)' is computer-nerd jargon for something written about something (but I mean, you probably know that, you have php in your sig ). So in this case, I'm looking for something (like an article, for example) about the two-phase algorithm. Why, what did you think I meant?



My definition is either an essay I write for school or something published in a scientific journal.

You can probably find some info on the cubeexplorer site.

Why is everyone so focused on 3x3 FMC? What about 4x4 FMC?


----------



## Zeroknight (Jul 21, 2009)

> @Johannes: That's PHP? I've been wondering for a while now. Looks nothing like the noob PHP I've learned



Well, it was a guesstimation. I know that the php concatenator is a period, and variable are declared with $. It might also throw you off because it's output (I guess?) is in another language.



> You can probably find some info on the cubeexplorer site.



I checked, I found the under 26 moves paper, but none specifically, in-depth for the TP.

Thanks though guys.


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## Johannes91 (Jul 21, 2009)

Zeroknight said:


> 'Paper(s)' is computer-nerd jargon for something written about something (but I mean, you probably know that, you have php in your sig ). So in this case, I'm looking for something (like an article, for example) about the two-phase algorithm. Why, what did you think I meant?


I thought you meant academic publications specifically. That's the meaning of the word I'm used to. Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but here's a lot of information about it and cube theory in general: http://cubezzz.homelinux.org/drupal/.

It's Perl btw (a JAPH).


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## blah (Jul 21, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> Zeroknight said:
> 
> 
> > 'Paper(s)' is computer-nerd jargon for something written about something (but I mean, you probably know that, you have php in your sig ).
> ...


Pardon me for being nosy, but may I know what that piece of code does?

Edit: Oh. Just read your edit.


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## Cride5 (Jul 22, 2009)

A situation I often end up with in the end game is an 2 edge swap. It kinda stuffs up my solves because I'm fine with 3-edge/corner cycles, but swaps are just a nightmare! Usually I do a J perm (10 moves min), but according to Cube Explorer it can be done in 8-moves min. Here are all optimal edge swaps:

(two oriented edges to swap adjacent on same face - UF/UR)

U R U R' U R U2 R' (8f*)
U R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2 (8f*)
U R' U R U R' U2 R (8f*)
U L U2 L' U L U L' (8f*)
U L2 U2 L2 U L2 U L2 (8f*)
U L' U2 L U L' U L (8f*)
U B U B' U2 B U B' (8f*)
U B2 U B2 U2 B2 U B2 (8f*)
U B' U B U2 B' U B (8f*)
U' F U' F' U' F U2 F' (8f*)
U' F2 U' F2 U' F2 U2 F2 (8f*)
U' F' U' F U' F' U2 F (8f*)
U' L U' L' U2 L U' L' (8f*)
U' L2 U' L2 U2 L2 U' L2 (8f*)
U' L' U' L U2 L' U' L (8f*)
U' B U2 B' U' B U' B' (8f*)
U' B2 U2 B2 U' B2 U' B2 (8f*)
U' B' U2 B U' B' U' B (8f*)
R U2 R' U' R U' R' U' (8f*)
R2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U' (8f*)
R' U2 R U' R' U' R U' (8f*)
F U2 F' U F U F' U (8f*)
F2 U2 F2 U F2 U F2 U (8f*)
F' U2 F U F' U F U (8f*)
L U L' U2 L U L' U (8f*)
L U' L' U' L U2 L' U' (8f*)
L2 U L2 U2 L2 U L2 U (8f*)
L2 U' L2 U' L2 U2 L2 U' (8f*)
L' U L U2 L' U L U (8f*)
L' U' L U' L' U2 L U' (8f*)
B U B' U B U2 B' U (8f*)
B U' B' U2 B U' B' U' (8f*)
B2 U B2 U B2 U2 B2 U (8f*)
B2 U' B2 U2 B2 U' B2 U' (8f*)
B' U B U B' U2 B U (8f*)
B' U' B U2 B' U' B U' (8f*)

(two oriented edges to swap opposite on same face - UF/UB)

R F U2 L F' L' U2 R' F' (9f*)
R B' R' U2 L' B' L U2 B (9f*)
R' F R U2 L F L' U2 F' (9f*)
R' B' U2 L' B L U2 R B (9f*)
F U2 F U2 F U2 F U2 F (9f*)
F U2 L F' L' U2 R' F' R (9f*)
F R U2 L F L' U2 F' R' (9f*)
F' U2 R' F R U2 L F L' (9f*)
F' U2 F' U2 F' U2 F' U2 F' (9f*)
F' L' U2 R' F' R U2 F L (9f*)
L F' L' U2 R' F' R U2 F (9f*)
L B U2 R B' R' U2 L' B' (9f*)
L' F' U2 R' F R U2 L F (9f*)
L' B L U2 R B R' U2 B' (9f*)
B U2 R B' R' U2 L' B' L (9f*)
B U2 B U2 B U2 B U2 B (9f*)
B L U2 R B R' U2 B' L' (9f*)
B' U2 L' B L U2 R B R' (9f*)
B' U2 B' U2 B' U2 B' U2 B' (9f*)
B' R' U2 L' B' L U2 B R (9f*)

(two edges diagonally opposite through cube UF/DB)

U L2 D' L2 U' F2 D' F2 D (9f*)
U B2 U' B2 U' B2 U' B2 U (9f*)
U B2 U' B2 D' R2 U' R2 D (9f*)
U' R2 D R2 U F2 D F2 D' (9f*)
U' B2 U B2 U B2 U B2 U' (9f*)
U' B2 U B2 D L2 U L2 D' (9f*)
F R2 B' R2 F' U2 B' U2 B (9f*)
F D2 F' D2 F' D2 F' D2 F (9f*)
F D2 F' D2 B' L2 F' L2 B (9f*)
F' D2 F D2 F D2 F D2 F' (9f*)
F' D2 F D2 B R2 F R2 B' (9f*)
F' L2 B L2 F U2 B U2 B' (9f*)
D F2 D' F2 U' R2 D' R2 U (9f*)
D F2 D' F2 D' F2 D' F2 D (9f*)
D L2 U' L2 D' B2 U' B2 U (9f*)
D' R2 U R2 D B2 U B2 U' (9f*)
D' F2 D F2 U L2 D L2 U' (9f*)
D' F2 D F2 D F2 D F2 D' (9f*)
B U2 B' U2 F' L2 B' L2 F (9f*)
B U2 B' U2 B' U2 B' U2 B (9f*)
B R2 F' R2 B' D2 F' D2 F (9f*)
B' U2 B U2 F R2 B R2 F' (9f*)
B' U2 B U2 B U2 B U2 B' (9f*)
B' L2 F L2 B D2 F D2 F' (9f*)

Some of them are also corner 3-cycles which is nice because it enables you to solve the corners at the same time as doing an edge swap


----------



## fanwuq (Jul 22, 2009)

You will have to correct the edge permutation before you get to that point. 
http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/edges_first.html

Edit: Your 8 movers are just Sunes and that all oriented MGLS case.


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## AvGalen (Jul 22, 2009)

Zeroknight said:


> Hey guys. Is it humanly possible to utilize a variant of the two-phase algorithm (used from Cube Explorer) during FMC. I'm thinking of this, and I'm currently looking for papers about the two-phase, but I can only find descriptions, not any papers.


Short answer: no
Longer answer: That depends on the variant
Full answer: 1 step is 12 moves, the other step is 18 moves. Even with the reduced amount of turns (not all 18 moves are allowed always) people just cannot look ahead that far. And if you want to use the extra optimisation step (mixing the 2 phases for even shorter solutions) that is just not humanly doable

You should try to do 1 cube like that and find a (near) optimal solution for both steps. Good luck


----------



## Johannes91 (Jul 22, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Zeroknight said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys. Is it humanly possible to utilize a variant of the two-phase algorithm (used from Cube Explorer) during FMC.
> ...


The second step isn't hard unless you want to be optimal every time. There's no need to look ahead much.

The main problem is the first step. How much doing it in two substeps would lose or how feasible it'd be to do at once are interesting questions. I don't think anyone has really looked into it.

Those numbers are upper bounds, btw, so it's like saying that cross and 2x2x2 block are 8 moves.



AvGalen said:


> And if you want to use the extra optimisation step (mixing the 2 phases for even shorter solutions) that is just not humanly doable


They aren't mixed. It's simply that many different solutions for the first step, including sub-optimal ones, are tried. And that's exactly what humans are already doing in FMC.


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## blah (Jul 22, 2009)

@Cride5: I don't know... 8 moves seems a little too much just to swap 2 edges. I'd rather go back into my solution and somehow add a quarter turn somewhere to make edge permutation parity even (I don't know if this is even possible, never tried it before ).


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## Cride5 (Jul 23, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> You will have to correct the edge permutation before you get to that point.
> http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/edges_first.html
> 
> Edit: Your 8 movers are just Sunes and that all oriented MGLS case.



Soz, I was in quite a hurry to get out the door when I generated them. Never had a chance to properly analyse them. I was hoping to find some elementary two-edge, two-corner swap operation in 8 moves, but it appears that collection of 8-movers permutes four corners in all cases. Probably not so useful for FM 

For what its worth, these are the ones which operate on the LL corners only (part of ZBLL):
U R U R' U R U2 R' -- sune, URF oriented, anti-clockwise corner rotate
B U B' U B U2 B' U -- sune, URF oriented, anti-clockwise corner rotate
U L' U2 L U L' U L -- sune, UFL oriented, anti-clockwise corner rotate
F' U2 F U F' U F U -- sune, UFL oriented, anti-clockwise corner rotate
L' U' L U' L' U2 L U' -- anti sune, URF oriented, clockwise corner rotation
U' F' U' F U' F' U2 F -- anti sune, URF oriented, clockwise corner rotation
U' B U2 B' U' B U' B' -- anti sune, UBR oriented, clockwise corner rotation
R U2 R' U' R U' R' U' -- anti sune, UBR oriented, clockwise corner rotation

Most of the rest permute at least one corner on the bottom layer (like MGLS) and a few permute two bottom layer corners.



blah said:


> @Cride5: I don't know... 8 moves seems a little too much just to swap 2 edges. I'd rather go back into my solution and somehow add a quarter turn somewhere to make edge permutation parity even (I don't know if this is even possible, never tried it before ).



Hmm, yea ... edge swap permutation is one of those nightmare scenarios to avoid at all costs. 8 moves was the minimum Cube Explorer found when ignoring corners. This is a scenario which often messes up my end game! Guess its back to the drawing board for me


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## AvGalen (Jul 23, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > Zeroknight said:
> ...


I would really like to see a human do step 1 and step 2 optimally and then doing ever more suboptimal variations to get even shorter (more optimal ) step 2's. Seeing a block or cross in 8 moves is already very hard, but is doable because there is so much freedom. 

Is there any study that shows the distribution of the amount of moves for step 1 and for step 2?


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## blah (Jul 23, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Is there any study that shows the distribution of the amount of moves for step 1 and for step 2?



I don't really know much about the original Thistlethwaite algorithm so I might be wrong, but if I recall correctly, I thought he had lookup tables for each step of his algorithm? Wouldn't an analysis of all the sequences in the tables for steps 1 and 2 suffice to show "the distribution of the amount of moves"?

I'm not even sure whether or not what I just said made any sense  At least it makes sense to me with whatever limited knowledge of the Thistlethwaite algorithm I have. Please point me to a correct direction in case that doesn't make sense


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 23, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Is there any study that shows the distribution of the amount of moves for step 1 and for step 2?



I think this is what you're asking for.

http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Mar...s/michael_reid__two_stage_filtration_(2).html

http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Mar...T._Winter__Re___two_stage_filtration_(2).html


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## Zeroknight (Jul 23, 2009)

Thanks guys for the help, and I love Cube Theory (which I still need to go back and finish)


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## blah (Jul 23, 2009)

@Cride5: You forgot the ones that swap UF/FU and BR/RB:

U2 R' U' R U' R' U' R (8f*)
U2 B' U2 B' U2 B' U2 B2 (8f*)
U' R U R U' R U R2 (8f*)
R2 U' R' U R' U' R' U (8f*)
R2 F' R2 F' R2 F' R2 F2 (8f*)
R' U R U R' U R U2 (8f*)
F2 R2 F R2 F R2 F R2 (8f*)
B2 U2 B U2 B U2 B U2 (8f*)


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## AvGalen (Jul 23, 2009)

cuBerBruce said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any study that shows the distribution of the amount of moves for step 1 and for step 2?
> ...


 

Indeed, that is what I wanted to know. It follows the distribution pattern I am used to now: "Sprinters trying to run long-distance" (very few stop in the beginning, most make it over half but not many actually finish)


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## DavidWoner (Jul 24, 2009)

I finally finished this:

http://dtwoner.110mb.com/index.php?p=1_4_FMC

It's every FMC solve I have ever done that I could find, in chronological order.


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## blah (Jul 25, 2009)

Vault312 said:


> I finally finished this:
> 
> http://dtwoner.110mb.com/index.php?p=1_4_FMC
> 
> It's every FMC solve I have ever done that I could find, in chronological order.


You've never even supped-40  I've had tons of those, and I've probably already done as many solves as you have (with tons of DNFs too) 

----------

Accomplishment post: First sub-30 in a long while 

Weekly competition 2009-30, 3x3x3 speedsolve, scramble 1: R2 U' L2 D2 U F2 L2 B2 L2 U' L2 R B2 L' U R' D B' D' B' U' 

Premoves + inverse scramble: F2 U' + U B D B D' R U' L B2 R' L2 U L2 B2 L2 F2 U' D2 L2 U R2

2x2x2: D2 F2 B D' B' (5/5)
2x2x3: D R F2 (3/8)
Fridrich F2L: R + R D2 R' D' R D R' + R' D' R (9/17)
All but 3 corners: F L2 B' L' B L' F' . + D2 (5/22) (M-conjugated Sune + AUF)
Undo premoves: F2 U' (2/24)
Corner 3-cycle insertion at .: F L B' L' F' L B L' (4/28)

Inverse solution: D2 F2 B D' B' D R F2 R2 D2 R' D' R D R2 D' R F L2 B' L2 F' L B L' D2 F2 U' (28)

Done in 37 minutes  I didn't look for better insertions after this, don't think I could top a 7-move cancellation  I've learned to put less effort into finding good starts, but instead find better endings with "good enough" starts


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## DavidWoner (Jul 25, 2009)

blah said:


> Vault312 said:
> 
> 
> > I finally finished this:
> ...



I did back in the early days, but I would just DNF them. Nowadays I DNF anything over 35.


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## blah (Jul 26, 2009)

Another accomplishment post  First time having two sub-30s in a row, aaand... new PB! 

Weekly competition 2009-30, 3x3x3 speedsolve, scramble 2: D L2 U' R2 D' L2 U R2 F2 U2 B2 F' U2 L' D R B2 U' F2 D' R'

Premoves + scramble: U2 L + D L2 U' R2 D' L2 U R2 F2 U2 B2 F' U2 L' D R B2 U' F2 D' R'
2x2x2: R2 B2 . (2/2)
2x2x3: D' L D2 L' (4/6) <--- 
F2L: U F' U2 R U (4/10) <--- 
All but 3 corners: U' F' R' F R U + F (6/16)
Undo premoves: U2 L (2/18)
Corner 3-cycle insertion at .: B' U B D B' U' B D' (6/24)

Solution: R2 B U B D B' U' B D2 L D2 L' U F' U2 R F' R' F R U F U2 L (24) <---   

Awesome solution! Found the 2 + 6 = 8-move 2x2x3 in less than 2 minutes  This is a very easy scramble with great starts (found another 9-move 2x2x3) and a LOT of easy expansions after the 2x2x3, try it! 

Loads of other good starts:


Spoiler



(Premoves: U2 L (2/2))
2x2x3: R2 B2 D' L D2 L' (6/8)
EO: U' R U2 F' U' (5/13)
Triple x-cross: R' F R (3/16)

(Premoves: U2 L (2/2))
2x2x3: R2 B2 D' L D2 L' (6/8)
Triple x-cross: U' R U R' F R (6/14)
14-move triple x-cross, again 

(Premoves: U2 L (2/2))
2x2x3: R2 B2 D' L D2 L' (6/8)
Triple x-cross: U F' U' D' F2 D or D' F2 D U F U' (6/14) 
This one looked very promising, but I couldn't get anything nice  Interesting discovery: The maneuver U F' U' D' F2 D (or D' F2 D U F U') is of order 2 

(Premoves: U2 L (2/2))
2x2x3: R2 B2 D' L D2 L' (6/8)
Triple x-cross: D' F2 D F (4/12)
(Kind of a PB) 12-move triple x-cross with all edges oriented 

No premoves.
2x2x3: F2 U D B2 D L' F D F (9/9)
F2L: D' B' L' D L B R' F' R' F R' (11/20)

No premoves.
2x2x3: F2 U D B2 D L' F D F (9/9)
F2L: F D F' D' F' U' R' U R' F R' (10/19)

No premoves.
2x2x3: F2 U D B2 D L' F D F (9/9)
Triple x-cross: D' B' L' D L B R (7/16)
F2L pair already formed, can be inserted in 3 different ways.


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## blah (Jul 26, 2009)

3 sub-30s in a row! 

Weekly competition 2009-30, 3x3x3 speedsolve, scramble 3: U' F2 U L2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D F2 D' F R U' B R' D2 L2 F' D' R'

Premove + scramble: R + U' F2 U L2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D F2 D' F R U' B R' D2 L2 F' D' R'

Really cool 2x2x3: .. R' L F' L2 R' F' B' R2 (8/8) <--- AWESOME! Not just in terms of move count, but I love the way the blocks just fall into place 
All but 3 corners and 3 edges: B' U B F' L' F U' . (7/15)
Undo premove: R (1/16)
Corner 3-cycle insertion at .: U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R (6/22)
Edge 3-cycle insertion at ..: B' R' L U2 R L' B' (7/29) <--- yeah I really suck at edge insertions 

Solution: B' R' L U2 R L' B' R' L F' L2 R' F' B' R2 B' U B F' L' F U R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R2 (*29 HTM* = 25 STM )


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## blah (Jul 26, 2009)

Thought this might be useful:

U R2 B2 L2 D L2 B2 R2 (8f*)
U L2 B2 R2 D R2 B2 L2 (8f*)
D F2 L2 B2 U R2 B2 L2 (8f*)
D B2 L2 F2 U L2 B2 R2 (8f*)
L2 U L2 B2 R2 D R2 B2 (8f*)
L2 D F2 L2 B2 U R2 B2 (8f*)
B2 L2 U L2 B2 R2 D R2 (8f*)
B2 L2 D F2 L2 B2 U R2 (8f*)

R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D' L2 B2 (8f*)
R2 D' R2 B2 L2 U' L2 B2 (8f*)
R2 B2 L2 U' F2 L2 B2 D' (8f*)
R2 B2 L2 D' L2 B2 R2 U' (8f*)
L2 B2 R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D' (8f*)
L2 B2 R2 D' R2 B2 L2 U' (8f*)
B2 R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D' L2 (8f*)
B2 R2 D' R2 B2 L2 U' L2 (8f*)


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## MistArts (Jul 26, 2009)

blah said:


> Thought this might be useful:
> 
> U R2 B2 L2 D L2 B2 R2 (8f*)
> U L2 B2 R2 D R2 B2 L2 (8f*)
> ...



I use this and its inverse:

[r2 f2 r2 (u/u'/u2)]*2


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## AvGalen (Jul 26, 2009)

MistArts said:


> blah said:
> 
> 
> > Thought this might be useful:
> ...


Please, write down these algs differently so people can see that many are the same only shifted 1 move
L2 B2 (R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D')
B2 (R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D') L2
(R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D') L2 B2

Especially for FMC it is important to see that you can start them at different points so you can have a much bigger chance of cancellations

MistArts notation is great to understand how this alg works, but might be confusing for FMC


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## blah (Jul 26, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Please, write down these algs differently so people can see that many are the same only shifted 1 move
> L2 B2 (R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D')
> B2 (R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D') L2
> (R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D') L2 B2
> ...


Actually, I left it that way intentionally  I myself had a great feeling of umm... a cube-gasm when I realized how beautiful that alg was because of it's "shape-shifting abilities", and I wanted others to have the opportunity to discover this on their own too  Such things just lose their elegance when they're spoondfed


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## AvGalen (Jul 26, 2009)

blah said:


> AvGalen said:
> 
> 
> > Please, write down these algs differently so people can see that many are the same only shifted 1 move
> ...


Next time someone asks a question about F2L I will just answer: solve the corners and edges in pairs
Next time someone asks a question about the last layer I will just answer: orient, then permute
Next time someone asks a question about blindfolded I will just answer: "memorise cycles, solve cycles, fix parity"

That way I will become elegant


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## blah (Jul 26, 2009)

Ah, but you see... No one asked this time


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## blah (Jul 27, 2009)

Might as well post these...

Weekly competition 2009-30, 3x3x3 speedsolve, scramble 4: U L2 U2 L2 U2 B2 D L2 B2 U L2 B R' B' U' R B2 F D2 L D

2x2x2: F' D' B U' R2 (5/5)
2x2x3: L' D2 L' B2 D' (5/10)
EO: U' L U2 B' U' (5/15)
F2L: B2 L2 B2 L B L' B' L B' (9/24)
LL: F L F' L F L2 F' L2 (8/*32*)

My first pure Petrus solution  I found the ending really elegant, everything just fell into place nicely 

----------

Weekly competition 2009-30, 3x3x3 speedsolve, scramble 5: R2 U L2 U' R2 B2 D' U' B2 L F L B R D L' D R' U F R2

Inverse scramble: R2 F' U' R D' L D' R' B' L' F' L' B2 U D B2 R2 U L2 U' R2

1x2x3: B' U R L' U L D' (7/7)
Pseudo-triple x-cross: F' R2 L D' L' (5/12) <--- 
All but 5 edges: R U' R U R' L (6/18)
Edge 3-cycle: B2 R U' D B2 U D' R B2 (9/27)
Edge 3-cycle: U2 F' L2 D2 R2 B' D2 L2 (8/*35*)

Really beautiful skeleton, lousy "insertions". Spent half an hour looking for insertions, found none, so I just did two 3-cycles 

----------

Question: I finally got myself another cube, a decent storebought. But I realize that I don't use it at all, not even for insertions or anything, I just seem to habitually use the same cube over and over again. I'd like to know what you guys use your other cubes for, since you're allowed three cubes in an official FMC attempt. I really don't know why I'd need TWO other cubes when I don't even know what to do with ONE other cube


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## TMOY (Jul 27, 2009)

I usually use two cubes, one for corners and the other one for the rest of the solve.
In competitions where no picture comes with the scramble I use the third cube as a reference.


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## AvGalen (Jul 27, 2009)

1 cube for the regular scramble, 1 for the inverse
After a while I start experimenting from a certain nice start on the 3rd cube. When I fail I try to restore it to the state of the example cube


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## mrCage (Jul 29, 2009)

blah said:


> Ah, but you see... No one asked this time


 
"Found some questions to the answers ..." -INXS, the Swing-

Per


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## JLarsen (Aug 3, 2009)

Hey guys! I went and learned Hiese! Once I get better at the second to last step I'll be in great shape to getting some of my first decent FMC solutions up here =].

Edit: OMG. Ow....my head hurttsssssss this is why I don't do FMC.

I'm trying to understand pair 3 cycles and I'm killing myself here. 

http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/pair_3_cycles.html


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## blah (Aug 3, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Hey guys! I went and learned Hiese! Once I get better at the second to last step I'll be in great shape to getting some of my first decent FMC solutions up here =].
> 
> Edit: OMG. Ow....my head hurttsssssss this is why I don't do FMC.
> 
> ...


Don't worry dude. I didn't know about that stuff until just now, and I've been doing fine in FMC so far  If it helps, I still don't fully understand it till now 

Edit: I *think* I've got it. Pair 3-cycles = fat (double-layered) corner 3-cycles, at least that's what it looks like to me


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## JLarsen (Aug 3, 2009)

Yeah I can do them but I can't get them to work =P. I'm just going to do solving of the edges and corners separate for now since I can do that find =P. I wonder what kind of move counts I can get with a Petrus/Heise solve at my level lol.


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## Tim Reynolds (Aug 8, 2009)

Well, not many FMC solves in this thread recently, but I'll go ahead and post one:
Scramble: L' D2 U' F R U L' D U2 B F L2 U2 R U F' U2 (from Cube Explorer)
Solution: D F2 R U B L B R' B' L' U2 D L' D2 B' L B L2 F L2 F' L F L' U L' U' F' L' (29)

2x2x3: D F2 R U B2 * R' B' U2 (8|8) [from original 2x2x2 D F2 R B U']
F2L minus 1 pair: D L' D2 B' L B (6|14)
F2L: L2 F L F' (4|18)
ELL: F L F' L F L' U L' U' F' L' (8|26)
This leaves a corner 3-cycle; insert B' L B R' B' L' B R (3|29) at *.

Found in 40 minutes; that's two sub-30s in a row! This week I'll try a few of the scrambles that blah used in this thread, just so I can read someone else's solution after I'm done.


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## blah (Aug 8, 2009)

Nice solution, but technically, that isn't ELL


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## JLarsen (Aug 8, 2009)

Tim Reynolds that LL was really nice! I said I was giving up but whatever....I'll try another. 

Scramble:U L B' F2 D L' B F L B F' R U D' R' L2 D' B2 D2 L' B D' U R' D'

2x2x3 (sorta): L D' R U' R2 U F R (8/8)

F2l : B' F L F L' F U F B U B' U2 B (13/21)

OLL: R' U' l' U l F' U R (8/29)

PLL: F U F' U' F' L F2 U' F' U' F U F' L' U' (15/44) I SUCK. 

Can anyone help me? Am I to understand there is not help for me?


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## blah (Aug 8, 2009)

OLL + PLL = NO GO.


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## DavidWoner (Aug 8, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> PLL: F U F' U' F' L F2 U' F' U' F U F' L' U' (15/44) I SUCK.



This is why you suck.

Linear solution on your scramble:

Scramble:U L B' F2 D L' B F L B F' R U D' R' L2 D' B2 D2 L' B D' U R' D'

2x2x3: D' L' F B', U' L2 D2 L F2 L' F (11)
3xcross: U F R' F' B (16)
leave 3 corners: L U L' U' L U L' U (24)
comm finish: B L2 B R2 B' L2 B R2 B2 (33)


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## JLarsen (Aug 8, 2009)

The leaving 3 corners is what I find hard to do. Your solutions seem to magically end in 3 corner cycles.


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## MTGjumper (Aug 8, 2009)

Someone should make some form of tutorial on the various ways to finish FMCs. My technique is flawed: hope to get lucky.


----------



## JLarsen (Aug 8, 2009)

MTGjumper said:


> Someone should make some form of tutorial on the various ways to finish FMCs. My technique is flawed: hope to get lucky.



Well according to Blah that ruins FMC.


----------



## blah (Aug 9, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> The leaving 3 corners is what I find hard to do. Your solutions seem to magically end in 3 corner cycles.



Exactly what I thought every time I read solutions from the pros. I came to the conclusion that either their reading (refer to an earlier post by Johannes for the definition of "reading") is incredibly deep and accurate, or they keep trying till they get an ending that leaves 3 corners. I'm pretty sure it's a combination of both, with the former being an increasingly important component as one's experience and expertise grows. I figured that since I'm still relatively a noob, I'd work on the latter first until I have enough experience to be able to "read" a dead end before I hit it.



Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> MTGjumper said:
> 
> 
> > Someone should make some form of tutorial on the various ways to finish FMCs. My technique is flawed: hope to get lucky.
> ...


Well according to Blah that's what he does too. And that is, in his humble opinion, the best way to get good at FMC *fast*: Try lots and lots of starts until you get lucky.

It's exactly what Kociemba's algorithm does. Find an ending with the optimal start, then move on to find better endings with sub-optimal starts, until you hit something good enough within an hour, then smile to yourself. Being able to find optimal starts is very important for linear FMC, hardly so for "normal" FMC, being able to find LOTS of sub-optimal starts is much more important IMHO 

And yes, blah is rather ashamed to use such a "technique", but elegantly or otherwise, it gets the job done  He hopes to change his main technique to a more sophisticated one in the near future though, when he has more time to research on other approaches 

By the way, I prefer "blah", non-capitalized


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## JLarsen (Aug 9, 2009)

Very good advice thank you blah =P


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## MTGjumper (Aug 10, 2009)

... and blah also prefers speaking in the third person 

I may as well try and get lucky with my FMC for this week. I have 50 minutes remaining.


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 11, 2009)

Hey guys,

I just really started FMC yesterday, and I hoping for advice on my first real FMC solve.
I did a solve officially like a year ago, but it was a 60move DNF, so that doesn't really count.

I've started the weekly comp. scramble, and this is what I have so far:

Scramble: L2 B2 D' F2 L2 U L2 B2 F2 R2 U L' U' R2 D2 U' F' R' U2 B' R 
Scramble with white front, green top.

Solution:
*2x2x2*:
(6) R2 F' D' R2 F R
This took me about 4min
*2x2x3*:
(11) U' R' F U F'
another 4ish minutes
*EO*:
(16) U l L' U L
took another 4 minutes do decide whether the U should be a U, a U', or a U2.

And this is where I'm stuck.
I think I have a decent start; I just don't know what to do from here. :/



I have a few initial ideas from there.


*Yellow LL*
Left slot first:
(23) F' U2 F' U' F U F'


Right slot first:
(24) M' U2 M F' U F
U F U' F'

*Green LL*
x y
(21) R2 U' R' U R2
(24) U' R U'
(27) R' U' R
(37) L R' U' R U L' U2 R' U2 R
+ U' + Uperm = 49 :/

Or, I would just do this:

R2 F' D' R2 F R
U' R' F U F'
R2 B' R'
x'
U2 L' U2 L U' L' U L
R U' R'U2 F'U2 F U R U2 R'
G perm (34 + gperm = 46 = not too good :/)

I haven't even bothered to look at the inverse scramble.


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## guusrs (Aug 11, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> MTGjumper said:
> 
> 
> > Someone should make some form of tutorial on the various ways to finish FMCs. My technique is flawed: hope to get lucky.
> ...



There is an "Fewest Moves Techniques" entry in the speedsolving WIKI.
Some months ago I made a first version of something that might give an overview....
Maybe you guys could help me to enhance this wiki page

Gus


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## cuBerBruce (Aug 11, 2009)

I would like to ask that people *not* discuss active online fewest move competition scrambles in this thread. People who take part in these competitions are supposed to be coming up with their solutions *by themselves* without any help or hints from anyone else. IMO, people should be free to read this thread without fear of inadvertently gaining information about an active competition. At the very least, I think spoiler tags should be used if you're going to say anything about an active competition.


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 11, 2009)

cuBerBruce said:


> I would like to ask that people *not* discuss active online fewest move competition scrambles in this thread. People who take part in these competitions are supposed to be coming up with their solutions *by themselves* without any help or hints from anyone else. IMO, people should be free to read this thread without fear of inadvertently gaining information about an active competition. At the very least, I think spoiler tags should be used if you're going to say anything about an active competition.


Oh. I'm very sorry.
I won't submit FMC this week, then, or I'll submit an FMC for the inverse, since I didn't ask for that.


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## JLarsen (Aug 11, 2009)

About your solution Stachu:

Step 4 isn't good for FMC. I recommend getting the f2l and ending with a 3 corner cycle by any means possible. I can't do it....but I've heard it's what you're supposed to do.


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## fanwuq (Aug 11, 2009)

Wow! So many people are getting into FMC recently!
To be honest, I've never really focused so much on a solve that would make my head hurt or read much about FMC techniques. I just casually try out random options that look interesting and hope I get lucky. It works pretty well, but I think I've hit a wall at a low 30s average. If I have more time, I would focus on thinking harder on the 2x2x3 block, learning more Heise techniques, optimal corner twisters, more keyhole tricks, Guus's LL techniques, get better at 5 cycle and edge insertions, full ZB... 
There are many things to learn that might not guarantee success; mostly it's just trying many options, do unconventional moves, and hope to get lucky.

Stachu,
2x2x3 block is ok, but can be a bit better. It's not so important for this solve. You need to get more creative with finishing the skeleton. Try to just solve F2L minus 1 slot from your 2x2x3 then solve all the edges while taking advantage of available blocks.


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## DavidWoner (Aug 11, 2009)

For those of you who are trying to understand how to leave 3 corners, try taking a look at this solve and try to understand what I did there. It's not magic, merely having control over the pieces. Here is another one with an ok continuation, but also an example of how doing step 4 can help out. I wouldn't say step 4 is "useless" but I don't think it will work out for every solve.

There is also a guide on heise's page about how to leave 3 corners, but its not the greatest.


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## JLarsen (Aug 12, 2009)

Vault312 said:


> For those of you who are trying to understand how to leave 3 corners, try taking a look at this solve and try to understand what I did there. It's not magic, merely having control over the pieces. Here is another one with an ok continuation, but also an example of how doing step 4 can help out. I wouldn't say step 4 is "useless" but I don't think it will work out for every solve.
> 
> There is also a guide on heise's page about how to leave 3 corners, but its not the greatest.



I tried to learn it from Hiese. Kind of got me a good start I guess, but it's still trivial. 

I checked out your solution. You paired up blocks on the LL while solving the edges.


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## MTGjumper (Aug 12, 2009)

MAJOR SPOILERS 

This weeks FMC:

Scramble: L2 B2 D' F2 L2 U L2 B2 F2 R2 U L' U' R2 D2 U' F' R' U2 B' R

I found this 2x2x3: L' D2 U B U L2 B2 L F
Which I extended into a 3xcross: F R' F' R U
Also found alternative 3xCross: L' D2 U B U L2 B2 U L F R F' U2 F

Any experienced FMCers care to show me how to finish this/manipulate pieces during these blocks to get a decent finish?

(I finally ended up with a linear 36: R' U2 R2 F' D' B2 R' B' U F U' B F' D R' D' R' F R F' R F' R' F2 R F' R' D' F' D' L D L' F D F' )


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## Johannes91 (Aug 12, 2009)

MTGjumper said:


> Scramble: L2 B2 D' F2 L2 U L2 B2 F2 R2 U L' U' R2 D2 U' F' R' U2 B' R
> 
> 3xCross: L' D2 U B U L2 B2 U L F R F' U2 F


Fun finish I found linearly:

Orient edges: U R' U' B' R' B
Pseudo F2L: R2 U
ZBLL: U' R2 U R U' R U2 R2 U' R' U R' U'
Undo pseudo: U'

31 moves


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## fanwuq (Aug 12, 2009)

Vault312 said:


> There is also a guide on heise's page about how to leave 3 corners, but its not the greatest.



Other guides exist?


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## DavidWoner (Aug 13, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Vault312 said:
> 
> 
> > There is also a guide on heise's page about how to leave 3 corners, but its not the greatest.
> ...



There's this one and this one.


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## JLarsen (Aug 13, 2009)

Vault312 said:


> fanwuq said:
> 
> 
> > Vault312 said:
> ...



I dun like you.....


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## fanwuq (Aug 13, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Vault312 said:
> 
> 
> > fanwuq said:
> ...



Also try all of these:
http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=fmc/fmcnewsystem
http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php


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## DavidWoner (Aug 29, 2009)

This was a nice scramble jt gave me. I didn't spent much time on it, but I found a nice 28 mover with this cool finish.

L' F2 R U F2 R2 L2 F2 R2 U2 D L' R2 B2 F2 L U2 L2 R F2 B2 R' U' B' R


D B R D R D R L2

U' F U F2 U' F2 U' F'

R' U2 R U2

F U' R' U R U F' U' (can also be written as (F d' F', U))


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## ardi4nto (Sep 9, 2009)

An hour ago, I got this Scramble from Cube Explorer for practising FMC
U F2 R2 U B2 U2 L2 R2 F2 R2 U' L2 D' R' F2 U R' F' R' F'

It's kinda weird, free 1x2x2 block!
my solution was

Scramble: U F2 R2 U B2 U2 L2 R2 F2 R2 U' L2 D' R' F2 U R' F' R' F'
Solution: R2 U F' L R' F L D L D2 L' D' L2 D' L' U L2 U' L' F' D' L2 D L F
R2 U F' L R' F (2x2x3) what?
L D L D2 L' D2 (F2L minus slot+pair)
D L2 D' L' (Finish F2L + LL corners)
U L2 U' L' F' D' L2 D L F (LL edges with ELL)

1 move cancel, 6+6+4+10-1 = 25 moves

but I think it can be better than 25. I tried to find edge insertion, but nothing better than 10 moves ELL in the end.

I wonder if someone can give a better solution..


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## guusrs (Sep 9, 2009)

ardi4nto said:


> An hour ago, I got this Scramble from Cube Explorer for practising FMC
> U F2 R2 U B2 U2 L2 R2 F2 R2 U' L2 D' R' F2 U R' F' R' F'
> 
> It's kinda weird, free 1x2x2 block!
> ...



Hi Ardianto,

I tried this scramble too.
Easy starts, but not easy to continue.
Using my memorized 10-move-LL-alg-library I found after ±45 minutes:
F2L minus pair: R D' R U' L' U2 F' L R' (9)
last F2L pair: D' F D F' R *F R'* (16..)
LL: *R F'* D2 B2 L U2 B L' B D2 F (*22*)

Gus


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## ardi4nto (Sep 10, 2009)

Hi Guus,
Nice solution, I never get 4 moves cancellation. Also brilliant 9 moves F2L minus pair. I always suck at that step, averaging 15 moves or even more. Any tips for practising block building?


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## guusrs (Sep 10, 2009)

ardi4nto said:


> Hi Guus,
> Nice solution, I never get 4 moves cancellation. Also brilliant 9 moves F2L minus pair. I always suck at that step, averaging 15 moves or even more. Any tips for practising block building?



Ardianto

That 4-move cancelling was just luck!

Tips for block building? Just a few: 
1. pratice, 
2. practice a lot
3. learn how to use pre-scramble-moves.
4. user inserted moves during the first blocks, it might help you for good continuation 
5. try inverse scrambles 
6. use good starting moves as pre-scramble-moves for inverse scramble
7. use good pre-scramble-moves as good starting moves for inverse scramble
8. practice even more

Gus


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## JLarsen (Sep 19, 2009)

Scramble: D2 R' U2 D F U2 F B2 L' U2 L' B2 F' D' U2 B L' B' U F B' R U' F B2 

2x2: U' F U' F2 B2 L2(6/6)
2x2x3:L' U' L U R2 F' (5/11)
S4a: U' R' U R U' R2 (6/17)
Orient Edges: U' F R' F' R2 U R' (7/24)
Pair 3 cycle: U f D f' U' f D' f' (8/32)
Finish 3 corners: D' L B2 L' F2 L B2 L' F2 D (10/42)

This is my first ever fmc that has not contained oll pll, and that is enough of an accomplishment to me to post this.


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## ardi4nto (Sep 23, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Scramble: D2 R' U2 D F U2 F B2 L' U2 L' B2 F' D' U2 B L' B' U F B' R U' F B2
> 
> 2x2: U' F U' F2 B2 L2(6/6)
> 2x2x3:L' U' L U R2 F' (5/11)
> ...



why you didn't do insertion for that? you might get some cancellations and got less than 40 moves. Using insertion, there is maximum 8 moves if you are out of luck.


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## JLarsen (Sep 23, 2009)

ardi4nto said:


> Sn3kyPandaMan said:
> 
> 
> > Scramble: D2 R' U2 D F U2 F B2 L' U2 L' B2 F' D' U2 B L' B' U F B' R U' F B2
> ...


Because I've yet to figure out how to use them. I've done maybe 5 FMC attempts total now. I haven't put much time into learning more fmc strategies on a count of how much they hurt my head. Just figuring out pair 3 cycles and 3 corner comms took me hours of migraines...


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## ardi4nto (Sep 24, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> ardi4nto said:
> 
> 
> > Sn3kyPandaMan said:
> ...



it's easy, just track the that 3 corners in the end, during the solve, and you do 3 cycle corner in position that give less number of moves. You can use numbered sticker to mark these 3 pieces. But, yes, figuring out 3 cycles commutator made me migrains too..


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## JLarsen (Sep 24, 2009)

Okay well thanks for the advice I'll work on learning that as my next technique...and maybe...not suck some day.


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## blah (Sep 25, 2009)

I think this is a pretty good example for beginners to get an idea of how blockbuilding is done FMC style 

I'm using the scramble from this week's forum competition, this was my solution:

Inverse scramble: R2 L F2 U' R F U2 L D R' U2 L2 U' B2 D L2 D L2 D2 L2 U2

2x2x3: L' F2 R2 L' D R2 D R' D (9/9)
Orient remaining edges: U R' U2 R (4/13)
Triple x-cross: U' B' U' B2 U2 (5/18)
Last slot: U B' U' B U B' U' (6/24)
Niklas: R B' L' B R' B' L (7/31)

I'm guessing that at first glance, most beginners wouldn't be able to see how the 2x2x3 was built in 9 moves without any cancellations or any visible 2x2x2 or 1x2x3 to start with. But it's NOT magically done that way.

When I started out in FMC, I saw lots of solutions from the pros where in the beginning, there were just a bunch of random moves that didn't really make any sense, and then towards the end, the blocks just magically clicked into place. I always wondered how they foresaw/predicted everything so perfectly and accurately.

I'm nowhere near being a "pro" yet, but I think I'm pretty good at getting 2x2x3 blocks in 10 moves or fewer most of the time, so I'll just share how I make my blocks click into place magically 

Here's the "development history" of my 2x2x3 block: (Please scramble with white on top and green on front to follow what I'm gonna be talking about.)

Apply the inverse scramble I provided above. Notice the yellow-orange-green 1x1x2 block in the back right corner in the bottom (that's the only ready-made block in the entire cube, so it's your best bet.) Now ask yourself, what completes the 1x2x2 block? That's right, you need the yellow-green edge. Find that edge, and you'll realize that R2 D R2 completes the 1x2x2 block, so do it.

(Moves done so far: R2 D R2)

Now look at the block you just built, and you'll realize that by pure luck, the yellow-red edge is already in place. So to complete the 1x2x3 block, you're gonna need the yellow-green-red corner. Obviously it's gonna take way too many moves to insert a corner into a 1x2x3 block, so let's take a look at what's in the way: The BLUE-yellow-red corner is in the position in which the YELLOW-green-red is supposed to be.

Now undo all your moves so far (do R2 D' R2,) and look for the YELLOW-green-red corner. You realize that doing L' F2 replaces the BLUE-yellow-red corner with the YELLOW-green-red corner, *without* affecting the other 4 pieces that made up the pseudo-1x2x3 block just now. So now, doing L' F2 R2 D R2 gives you a 1x2x3 block, are you getting an idea of how this works now? 

(Moves done so far: L' F2 R2 D R2)

Now you don't see any good continuation to form a 2x2x3 block, so start undoing moves to see what you can "tweak," you'll see what I mean in a bit. Undo your last move (do R2,) now you realize you can't do ANY move without affecting the 5 pieces that make up the 1x2x3 block. So undo another move (do D',) now realize that all 5 pieces are in the M and R slices, which leaves you free to do anything you want with the L slice. Ask yourself, which L move (L/L'/L2) makes the most sense? Of course, L', because that solves the orange-green edge, so do L'. Now redo the moves that you undid just now (do D R2.)

(Moves done so far: L' F2 R2 L' D R2)

The remaining D R' D should be pretty self-explanatory.

That's it. That's how the block is done. Here's a summary of the stages we went through:

Stage 1: R2 D R2 (1x2x2 block)
Stage 2: *L' F2* R2 D R2 (1x2x3 block)
Stage 3: L' F2 R2 *L'* D R2 (solve an edge)
Stage 4: L' F2 R2 L' D R2 *D R' D* (complete the 2x2x3 block)

Got a better feel of how it's done now?  Feel free to ask me any questions. I'd also like to have some criticism from the pros: Is this how you guys generally go about building blocks? Or am I doing something inefficiently? Any advice?


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## StachuK1992 (Sep 26, 2009)

http://fmc.pastebay.com/

I think it'd be cool to put solutions here.
Just a thought.

Edit:
notice that this isn't an ordinary pastebin. Just in case y'all were like 'well, duh.'


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## ardi4nto (Oct 6, 2009)

Hi guys,
there was no one posted here for a while.. 

I have question about leaving 3 corners, how do you that? Intuitively? or by knowing some algorithms?
I tried some intuitive one, and always ended with more than 3 corners, (4 or 5) so I need 2 insertions, which is hard to get a lot cancellations..
trying someone else solution didn't help me, it's seems magically leaves 3 corners...


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## MistArts (Oct 9, 2009)

ardi4nto said:


> Hi guys,
> there was no one posted here for a while..
> 
> I have question about leaving 3 corners, how do you that? Intuitively? or by knowing some algorithms?
> ...



Hello. I believe some people just try to solve the edges hopefully some corners gets solved with it. 

You can also build two ce-pairs of any kind after solving the F2L minus last slot and combine them along with edges.

Alternatively, you can solve the last pair and use try several 6-9 move LL algorithms until you have 3 corners left.

I find building a triple-X cross (or you can call it a F2L minus one slot) easier becuase you can "psuedoize" one of the two "squares" (1x2x2 blocks next to the empty slot) and get an alternative ending.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Oct 12, 2009)

Bump.

My FMC at the WC2009, which got me 3rd place:

Scramble: D2 B F' D2 U2 F' D' F2 L2 R D2 L U' F' L2 D2 F2 L U2
Solution: B2 R2 U' L2 B' R L' D' F D' L D B' E2 L' D2 L E2 L' D2 B R' D2 R F D2 F' D'
Explanation:
2x2x2 block: B2 R2 U' L2 B' R
X-cross and prepa(i)ring a bit: L' D' F
Next 2 pairs: D' L D B' ... L' B
Leave 3 edges: R' D2 R F D2 F' D'
Insert at ...: E2 L' D2 L E2 L' D2 L, 2 moves cancel.


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## fanwuq (Oct 12, 2009)

trying-to-speedcube... said:


> Bump.
> 
> My FMC at the WC2009, which got me 3rd place:
> 
> ...



Very nice! I wonder what were Yumu's and Oliver's solutions.


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## guusrs (Oct 12, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> trying-to-speedcube... said:
> 
> 
> > Bump.
> ...



Hi 

Oliver's solve was F L R' B U R' U L B D B L' B D2 B D2 B' D' B2 R F R' B' R F' R' (*26*)
cross+1st pair: F L R' B U R' U
2nd+3th pair: L B D B L' 
4th pair+LL cross: B D2 B D2 B' D' B
LL corners: B R F R' B' R F' R' 
Smart Fridrich!
Gus


straight Fridrich which smart


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## guusrs (Oct 12, 2009)

Hi folks 

Apart from fun I solely came to Düsseldorf for FMC competition

I ended up with a 32-move solution, made a mistake while writing down (and wiping out my 34-move backup solution), no time left to check.
I searched the wrong paths, missed an easy 29-move opportunity (nerves!) and at home I check and find out I was nearby a 26-move solution.

All these solution (32, 29,and 26 movers) were all based on pre-scramble-moves [B2 U' D' F] (last three of them found using the inverse scramble) followed by 
F2L minus pair: [U F L B U F' U2 D2 B2] (9+4). 
With 20 minutes left I decided to stick on this start because I was sure I would find a sub 30 on it.

But I got nervous, with 15 minutes to go I found a 25 move edge frame: 
my start: [pre: B2 U' D' F][scramble][U F L B U.F' U2 D2 B'] (13)
F2L: B' U' L' U L' B (18)
LL edges: D L F L' F' D' L' (25) 
at the dot I inserted D'B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2, poorly enough only 1 move cancelled.

But time was almost up and only 2 minutes left to write this solution on the result paper. I checked if I didn't make any writing errors, I didn't but sad enough the original solution contained an error already and there was no time left to check it on a clean cube! Resulting in DNF.

What I should have done is finishing F2L an alternate way (I normally always check, without pressure) which would have given me:
My start: [pre: B2 U' D' F][scramble][U F L B U.F' U2 D2 B2] (13)
F2L: D L B' L2 B (18)
LL: U' L' U L' U' L F' L F U L2 (29) 
PS. Last LL-alg is very common for speedcubers (my system and Fridrich)
Still can't beleave I missed this one!

But What I really should have done is apply my nice start on the inverse scramble (so pre-moves and starting moves will be inversed and swapped!):
[pre: B2 D2 U2 F U' B' L' F' U'][inverse scramble] [F' D] (11)
F2L minus pair: U2 B (13)
Last pair+smoothly continue with LL-alg: L U' L F' L' D' L' D L' F L U L' (26)
At home, without nerves, I needed 10 minutes to find this.

After 27 years of waiting to become a world-champion I won't bother waiting another 2 years...

Most important: I had a lot of fun, especially with Maarten, that crazy guy from Israel (Shuka), Yasmine&Peter and many others.

Gus


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## fanwuq (Oct 13, 2009)

Wow! Impressive solution, Guus!
That last solution was just crazy. I didn't know you could do something like that! Why be so nervous at competitions? Just solve the cube. 
Oliver also had a nice solution, but it was not as crazy as yours. Maybe I need to work on my Fridrich.
What happened during your 3x3x3 speed round?


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## guusrs (Oct 13, 2009)

fanwuq said:


> Wow! Impressive solution, Guus!
> That last solution was just crazy. I didn't know you could do something like that! Why be so nervous at competitions? Just solve the cube.
> Oliver also had a nice solution, but it was not as crazy as yours. Maybe I need to work on my Fridrich.
> What happened during your 3x3x3 speed round?



Thanx fanwuq,
My 3x3 speed solves: 
1. pop (block on floor), 28 sec.
2. F2L error, 30 sec
3. pop (in middel of alg) followed by alg-error, 32 sec
4. normal solve, 16sec 
5. normal solve, 17 sec
Gus


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## mazei (Oct 13, 2009)

guusrs said:


> After 27 years of waiting to become a world-champion I won't bother waiting another 2 years...



Aww c'mon. You might suddenly get a sub-20 in the next WC and become a WR and WC holder.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Oct 13, 2009)

guusrs said:


> Most important: I had a lot of fun, especially with Maarten, that crazy guy from Israel (Shuka), Yasmine&Peter and many others.


Nobody told anybody about our nightmare teamsolves.
- Maarten does white cross, incredibly inefficient F2L and OLL-PLL.
- Guus does green cross, incredibly efficient F2L and CLL-ELL.

In those 2 days I learned almost all algorithms Guus uses, which resulted in DNF'ing teamsolves in the beginning, and a 1:38 in the end!

And Shuka indeed is crazy. He uses a cube with Japanese color scheme of which the brand is unclear, but it turns awesome, he uses a CF method, and he sounds so interested in "normal" methods that it felt like he had been living in a cave for 30 years.  [/offtopic]

Oh, and I did my FMC solve Erik-style. Come in late, go away as first.


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## guusrs (Oct 13, 2009)

trying-to-speedcube... said:


> guusrs said:
> 
> 
> > he uses a CF method, and he sounds so interested in "normal" methods that it felt like he had been living in a cave for 30 years.  [/offtopic]
> ...


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## Lars Petrus (Oct 13, 2009)

> After 27 years of waiting to become a world-champion I won't bother waiting another 2 years...



Did you mean to say "I won't *mind* waiting another 2 years"?

"bother" makes it sound like you're quitting cubing, but I don't get the impression that's what you intended.


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## masterofthebass (Oct 14, 2009)

I slightly modified the way Oliver did his 4th f2l pair, and ended up with a really easy 25 move solution with an insertion. I suck at finding them, so I'm sure someone better could maybe reduce it even more, seeing that I only cancelled 1 move. My solution is as follows:

Scramble: D2 B F' D2 U2 F' D' F2 L2 R D2 L U' F' L2 D2 F2 L U2

cross+1st pair: F * L R' B U R' U
2nd+3th pair: L B D B2 L' D' B 
4th pair+LL cross: D2 R D2 R'

This leaves a pure commutator of 10 moves. The insertion I found was doing D' L' D R D' L D R' at the *, canceling with the R' of the cross building. Perhaps someone can find a better insertion somewhere.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Oct 14, 2009)

masterofthebass said:


> I slightly modified the way Oliver did his 4th f2l pair, and ended up with a really easy 25 move solution with an insertion. I suck at finding them, so I'm sure someone better could maybe reduce it even more, seeing that I only cancelled 1 move. My solution is as follows:
> 
> Scramble: D2 B F' D2 U2 F' D' F2 L2 R D2 L U' F' L2 D2 F2 L U2
> 
> ...



F L R' B U R' . U L B D B2 L' D' B D2 R D2 R'

. = [R B' R', F]

F L R' B U B' R' F R B R' F' U L B D B2 L' D' B D2 R D2 R' (24HTM)


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## KConny (Oct 15, 2009)

Wow, that's a nice solution!

Someone might be interested at seeing my 35 moves solution:
2x2x3: F2 U B2 D U R' D2 (7)
cross3pairs: L F' [r2] F' U' L F' U L' F (9)
So far it's good, but then I didn't find anything nice: 
Stupid CLS: [u2] R U' R U2 R' U' R U' R2 (9)
OLL: Fw R U R2 U' R' U R2 U' R' Fw' (11)
PLL: skip (0)

Can someone show me a nice LL?


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## guusrs (Oct 16, 2009)

KConny said:


> Wow, that's a nice solution!
> 
> Someone might be interested at seeing my 35 moves solution:
> 2x2x3: F2 U B2 D U R' D2 (7)
> ...



Isn't that a nice 11-move LL already?


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## KConny (Oct 17, 2009)

Well yes. 
But 9 moves last pair and 11 moves LL isn't the greatest. At least the skip isn't pretty. So maybe I should have asked for a better last slot + LL. Or some magic moves during an earlier pair. I tried a lot of stuff but couldn't find anything better than this. But I usually learn something new from seeing how other people would have continued after the first blocks.


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## guusrs (Oct 18, 2009)

Lars Petrus said:


> > After 27 years of waiting to become a world-champion I won't bother waiting another 2 years...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeh, of course,

I did mean "I won't mind waiting another 2 years.."

My English is not the level of my cube solves

Gus


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## guusrs (Oct 18, 2009)

Hi 

After all the easy scrambles, here is a really hard one!
It was the scramble of the Dutch Open 2009 FMC competition october 17 2009:

R2 D B2 U B2 D B' D' R' U' F' D2 B2 R D L' B' F (18)

Winning solution was 35 moves bij Erik and me
(posting solution on request)

Gus


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Oct 18, 2009)

I found a 38 on that one, also posting on request. It was linear Fridrich F2L with COLL and an edge insertion, really the best I could find...


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## Olivér Perge (Oct 19, 2009)

My solution for the scramble of Dutch Open:

2x2x2 block: F' R2 F U' L' U' R' (7)

2x2x3 block: U F U' L' F2 L (6)

3rd pair: R D R2 F' R' F (6)

4th pair: D' R D' F D' F' R' (7)

LL: L D' R' D L' D' R D (8)

34 moves, found it in 10 minutes, and still could be shorten with an insertion i guess.

Maarten, Gus! I'd like to see yours. 


And here is the scramble of the Hungarian Open 2009: F2 U' B2 D' F2 U2 B' D' B2 U' R U' L U2 B2 L B2 F2

In my opinion it is easy, i bet Gus and other expert guys can find sub-30 easily. I did 31 on this. First 18 moves were quite obvious for me, found it in 5 minutes but then i couldn't find anything useful for like 50 minutes. Last 13 moves found in the 57. minute. 

2x2x2 block: F U B L2 B' U L (7)

2nd, 3rd pair: F' D' F D2 F D F' R' F' R' F (11)

4th pair+LL: D L D2 L B' L' B D' B D B' L' D2 (13)

Total: 31

I was happy for finding this and i was even happier when i noticed Milán found an even better one and got a 29 moves solution which he deserved a lot!


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## ardi4nto (Oct 19, 2009)

My solution to Dutch Open scramble, 30 minutes almost linear:
Scramble: R2 D B2 U B2 D B' D' R' U' F' D2 B2 R D L' B' F
Solution: U' L' U' R B' D' L' F2 D2 U L U' F' L F B2 R U' R' U2 R' U' R L U' R' U L' U' R D' F D B2 D' F' D B

Pseudo F2L minus pair: U' L' U' R B' D' L' F2 D2 U L U' F' L F B2 R U' R' (19/19)
edges: U2 R' U' R U' (5/24)
first cycle 3 corners: U L U' R' U L' U' R (6/30)
Second cycle 3 corners: D' F D B2 D' F' D B2 (8/38)
Remove pseudo: B' (0/38)

done while doing my take home examination, I got headache today..
maybe better with insertion, but, I must do another thing (doing my exam again, doh)

What's your solution, Guus and Marten?


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Oct 19, 2009)

Scramble: R2 D B2 U B2 D B' D' R' U' F' D2 B2 R D L' B' F

Cross: R2 U2 R' F' (4/4)
First pair: F' D F R D R' (6/10)
Second pair: R' D' R L' D2 L (6/16)
Third pair: L' D2 L2 D L2 D L (7/23)
Fourth pair: R' D' R D2 R' D2 R (8/31)
COLL: R D R' D R D2 R' D (8/39)
Insert somewhere with some canceling moves (can't remember) (10/49)

11 moves cancel, 2 in the insertion, 9 in the solve.


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## boyscout (Oct 19, 2009)

Hello all, this is my first post in FMC thred. This is my solution to Dutch Open FMC scramble, find the skeleton in half an hour, trying to get a good insertion in the next half an hour but couldn't get one:

2x2x2 : F' R2 F U' L' U' (6/6)
2x2x3 : D' R F' R2 F2 R2 (6/12)
Pseudoblock minus 1 pair = R F R' F D' F' (5/17)
4 Edge & 2 Corner = F' R' D' R D2 F L D' L D = (9/26)
3 cycle corner : R' B' R F' R' B R F = (8/34)

Still practicing....


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## Tim Major (Oct 25, 2009)

boyscout said:


> Hello all, this is my first post in FMC thred. This is my solution to Dutch Open FMC scramble, find the skeleton in half an hour, trying to get a good insertion in the next half an hour but couldn't get one:
> 
> 2x2x2 : F' R2 F U' L' U' (6/6)
> 2x2x3 : D' R F' R2 F2 R2 (6/12)
> ...



Great solution, I also got the same 2x2x3.


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## guusrs (Oct 28, 2009)

Olivér Perge said:


> My solution for the scramble of Dutch Open:
> 2x2x2 block: F' R2 F U' L' U' R' (7)
> 2x2x3 block: U F U' L' F2 L (6)
> 3rd pair: R D R2 F' R' F (6)
> ...



Hi Olivér,

sorry I'm late on your request.
My solution was nothing special, 35 most, almost linear in 3 minutes, After that I focused on sub-30 (I always do) but failed so I had to write down this solution:

F2L: F2 R2 F2 U R' D B' R' B' U2 L' D2 L U' R' D2 R D' F D F' D' B R' B'R (26)
LL: F'D2 F D2 F L' F' L D'(35)

Maybe I should give it another hour to find a sub-30 solution..

I'll give the Hungarian Open Scramble a try too (to be continued)...

Gus


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## daniel0731ex (Oct 29, 2009)

today i broke my thumb when cracking walnuts. FMC


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## nigtv (Oct 30, 2009)

You guys are going to think im crazy. I'm totally sane, just new at this. 10 min linear solve. scramble: R2 D B2 U B2 D B' D R' U' F' D2 B2 R D L' B' F (note the typo, i solved a typo'd scramble  )

2x2x2 block: B D L' F' R 
finish up, leave a slot: U' L2 U' L' B2 U' L' B2 U' B2 L' B' y'
orient edges: U' R U2 R2 F R F' 
finish all edges: U2 F' U' F U2 y
fix one corner: L' U R U' L U R' U' x' y'
final corners: U F' U' F D F' U F U' D'
total: 47 turns.
I know it's not that great, but I'm new to the FMC thing, and I have a hard time keeping track of turns, so I just went for linear, and 10 minutes because more time probably wasn't going to help me much. Maybe not SO BAD for a newbie?


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## blah (Oct 30, 2009)

47 is the move count for a relatively easy Fridrich speedsolve.


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## nigtv (Oct 30, 2009)

blah said:


> 47 is the move count for a relatively easy Fridrich speedsolve.


Hmm...well, I use heise, but not very well lol. Usually, if I do have more time, ill go through it several more times, do some insertions, change a thing here and there around, or just use my last solve to do much more extensive look head than I could just doing it in one go. 

With that kind of stuff, I can usually get down to 35~ turns in around an hour, but I'm still working. There was a time not too long ago where my move count (albiet with petrus) was averaging like 85, so at least im not getting WORSE.

EDIT: oh yea, I wanted to mention that L' U R U' L U R' U' alg, not one I made up, but I use it (and it's inverse) to save myself from really bad final corner positions, like if i have 2 pairs of 2 swapped corners, 3-4 corners in the wrong place and in a bad orientation, or to rotate 3 corners easily.


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## ardi4nto (Oct 30, 2009)

nigtv said:


> EDIT: oh yea, I wanted to mention that L' U R U' L U R' U' alg, not one I made up, but I use it (and it's inverse) to save myself from really bad final corner positions, like if i have 2 pairs of 2 swapped corners, 3-4 corners in the wrong place and in a bad orientation, or to rotate 3 corners easily.



3-4 corners in wrong place can be solved easily using insertion. 2 pairs of 2 swapped corners can be solved with kind of (R U R' U')3x insertion. And you can meke up the algorithms for solving 3 corners easily if you know commutators.


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## nigtv (Oct 30, 2009)

That's interesting on the insertion thing, I'll look more into it, care to explain a little more?

And on the commutators thing, yea, I can use them, it's just when I'm not bothering with looking ahead, I sometimes get a position with 3 corners in the right place but oriented wrong, which heise doesn't really address with a low turn solution (unless you count looking ahead to just avoid it). I know you can just use 2 corner 3 cycles to fix it, but using that alg (or its inverse) with a single corner 3 cycle usually turns out to be less moves than just using 2 3-cycles.


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## guusrs (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi folks,

For advanced FMC users here is a nice example of my NISS-method for FMC (Normal-Inverse-Scramble-Switch):
Scramble: (fmc.mustcube.net #265) F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2 R L' F2 U' F' L

my solve: D' B' U B2 D' L F2 L' D R U2 R U2 B' R' U2 RU' R B' R' F2 U' L B' (*25*)
explanation:
inverse scramble: nice start: B L' U F2 (4)
apply on normal sramble: [pre-moves F2 U' L B'] nice continuation: D' B' U B2 R2
apply on inverse scramble: [pre-moves R2 B2 U' B D]: B L' U F2 (4+[5])
then continuation on inverse scramble was easy: 
F2L: R B R' U R' U2 R B (12+[5])
LL: U2 R' U2 R' D' L F2 L' D R2 (22+[5])
pre-move correction: R2 B2 U' B D, 2 moves cancel (25)
Took my 90 minutes including finding a 29-move 1-hour solution

NB. I should reduce executing time otherwise I will get an DNF next WC as well

Gus


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## Stini (Nov 1, 2009)

That is a fantastic solution! I have been experimenting with that method as well in recent FMC scrambles, but I don't think I have yet used it in my final solutions. I only got 30 moves for that scramble with a more classical method, but I am happy that I found an optimal 2x2x3-block (which I although modified a bit to get an easier continuation).


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Nov 1, 2009)

guusrs said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> For advanced FMC users here is a nice example of my NISS-method for FMC (Normal-Inverse-Scramble-Switch):
> Scramble: (fmc.mustcube.net #265) F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2 R L' F2 U' F' L
> ...



Wow, Guus, I never thought of using it more than 1 time in a solution! I learned that trick from you at WC, but using it twice is just genius!


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## ardi4nto (Nov 1, 2009)

guusrs said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> For advanced FMC users here is a nice example of my NISS-method for FMC (Normal-Inverse-Scramble-Switch):
> Scramble: (fmc.mustcube.net #265) F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2 R L' F2 U' F' L
> ...



This method is very good to add other options for continuations, but doesn't it consume a lot of time? especially for 1 hour solving.. 
and I hate to re-scramble again..
I used this method on current weekly competition, and takes me 40 minutes for just 1 36 moves solution..


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## mazei (Nov 1, 2009)

Can you somehow use insertions with that method?


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## AvGalen (Nov 1, 2009)

mazei said:


> Can you somehow use insertions with that method?


Yes you can. Why do you think you couldn't?

The disadvantage of this method is that 1 hour is very short. You really have to keep track of your steps and which moves are performed on which scramble.

Basically you would:
Look at the state of the cube from state A.
If you can't find anything good to do, switch to the inverse state giving you twice as many chances to find something good to do
Switch to the inverse state when you can't find anything good to do again


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## Henrik (Nov 1, 2009)

The FMC scramble at FSPO '09

The scramble: L2 D2 F' R2 F' L2 F' D2 F2 R2 D' R2 B' U R' D L' B2 D F (20f)

And my solution:
A 2x2x2 block: .L' B U' B U B F2 U2 (8)
Pseudo F2L: L' D' L (3, 11)
Cube minus 5 corners: U R' U' (3, 14)
2 corners: R U R' D' R U' R' D (8, 22)
Correct layer: B' (1, 23)
Insert at . : L2 F' L B2 L' F L B2 (8, 31)
This cancels 2 moves L and B2 becomes B'

L2 F' L B2 L' F L B' U' B U B F2 U2
L' D L U R' U'
R U R' D' R U' R' D B'

What did I do? and more important what did i do wrong? the 6 moves for the sceleton was found by accident when i needed to solve the cube so I could scramble it again. 

To quote Erik: Getting lucky is not a crime. 

I never thought that I should break the DK record. but hey. 
The last 15 min of FMC i was shaking like crazy, of exitement. 
And when the judge finaly said OK to my solution, I was so exited.


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## MistArts (Nov 1, 2009)

guusrs said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> For advanced FMC users here is a nice example of my NISS-method for FMC (Normal-Inverse-Scramble-Switch):
> Scramble: (fmc.mustcube.net #265) F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2 R L' F2 U' F' L
> ...



That is a very nice method and solution. But I believe it would be somewhat time consuming to do this.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Nov 7, 2009)

I just had to revive this thread. I hope others will post here again as well. It's a lot of fun!

Scramble: U F2 B' U2 B L D U' B L2 U2 F R' U' B2 L F B' L2 B' F' R' L' D2 R

Solution: U2 B D' F2 U' R L2 U' F' L' F U2 R U' L' U R' U' R' U' L' U R F L' F' L F L' F' (30HTM)

Nice start on normal scramble: U2 B D' F2 U' R (6/6)
R' U F2 D B' U2 as premove on inverse scramble: F L F' L' F L F' R' U' L U R L U' F' L F U L2(19/25)
Solution so far: U2 B D' F2 U' R L2 U' F' L' F U . L' R' U' L' U R F L' F' L F L' F' (25)
Insert at .: U R U' L' U R' U' L, 3 moves cancel.

30 moves, pretty good. I found the 25-move skeleton in about 20 minutes, I spent 30 minutes on the insertion.

Post your own solutions


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## boyscout (Nov 18, 2009)

Does anyone have Erik's 26 Winning move? I'm curious


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## Olivér Perge (Nov 18, 2009)

boyscout said:


> Does anyone have Erik's 26 Winning move? I'm curious



http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=267995#post267995


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## boyscout (Nov 18, 2009)

Olivér Perge said:


> boyscout said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have Erik's 26 Winning move? I'm curious
> ...



Thx a lot


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## nigtv (Nov 22, 2009)

I found a nice looking scramble today, it looked like I may be able to make something out of it, but I'm having a little trouble with my LL. Maybe one of you guys can find something cool here, it sure looks promising, doesn't it?
(oh yea, I've only had about 30 minutes to play with this today, haven't looked for cancellations or insertions yet)

L F L F B L' B' U R2 D R' F' L2 D2 B F R' D' R2 B2 F' R L' U2 L'

I was doing: 
2x2x2: F U2 L
into a partial 3rd block: R2 U R2 B' U R B'
weird LLish with good cont: U R F R' F' R B' R' B R'

I had been trying something from there, it looked extremely promising but I end up with very ugly cases for the last corners. I don't have more time to screw with it, but I think this scramble has potential.


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## masterofthebass (Nov 22, 2009)

Thankscubing Result:

Scramble: R2 B2 U L2 D F R' D2 L D2 B U2 F2 D2 R F' R U2 (18f*)
Solution: L' D' B2 R D' F U' L' U2 B2 D B' D' U R D' R' U2 D2 B2 D' U' B U2 B U' B' R B2 R' B' (31)

x cross: L' D' B2 R D' F U' L' U (9)
first pair: U . B U' D B2 D' (5)
second pair: U' B U2 B U' (5)
third pair: B' R B2 R' (4)
AUF: B' (1)

insert at . : B D B' D' U R D' R' U' D cancelling 3 moves


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## blah (Nov 22, 2009)

Is there something wrong with your last line? Doesn't work for me.

Edit: It hould be B' R B2 R' B'.


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## guusrs (Nov 22, 2009)

boyscout said:


> Olivér Perge said:
> 
> 
> > boyscout said:
> ...


And scroll ahead to see how I improved Erik's solution to 21 moves.....
Gus


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## boyscout (Nov 22, 2009)

@Guus
Wow. That could be the new WR! Too bad you skip.


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## nigtv (Nov 25, 2009)

(thanks to keemy on the sexy move at the end)
Sorry about the cube rotations, I'm too tired to transpose correctly atm.

Scramble: R2 L2 B' U' D' B R' L2 U D R2 U' L2 U2 L2 U' F D' B R' D B L U2 L'

2x2x2: U F L F' (4)
2nd block: D F' R2 F (8)
last block: D' B D B2 L B' L' (15)
arrange: D2 B D R (19)
edges: D R' D2 R (23)
sexy move: D F D F' D' F D F' D' F D F' D2 (36)

I had 2 comms before sexy move ending, giving 43 turns, so big thanks to keemy. This is my lowest turn count yet!

Edit: there may be counting errors there, sorry, tired. BTW this solution (minus sexy move) was found in a 10 min linear.

Edit: Got rid of cube rotations. fixed turn counts.


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## guitardude7241 (Nov 26, 2009)

B2 U B' F2 D' L' F2 L R D R F' L B F' D' U' B' R2 D2 B2 L' U' L' F2

F R F' L U2 L U2 L' 
x y'
L' U L U' F U F'
U' F' U F U R U R'
U B L2 B R2 F' B' L' F L' B R2 B2

36 moves. first time ever, done in like, 5 minutes. the last layer is thanks to cube explorer(i don't think that counts though). somebody else try this scramble, i'm sure that it's good.


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## nigtv (Nov 26, 2009)

Doesn't do anything for me ?


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## Tim Reynolds (Nov 26, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> B2 U B' F2 D' L' F2 L R D R F' L B F' D' U' B' R2 D2 B2 L' U' L' F2
> 
> F R F' L U2 L U2 L'
> *x'* y'
> ...


corrected rotations


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## Cride5 (Nov 26, 2009)

guitardude7241 said:


> B2 U B' F2 D' L' F2 L R D R F' L B F' D' U' B' R2 D2 B2 L' U' L' F2
> 
> F R F' L U2 L U2 L'
> x y'
> ...



23 moves is pretty standard for a blockbuilding F2L. 



guitardude7241 said:


> the last layer is thanks to cube explorer(i don't think that counts though).


No, it doesn't


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## mazei (Nov 27, 2009)

Cride5 said:


> 23 moves is pretty standard for a blockbuilding F2L.



Nooo!!! I'm inefficient as usual. Sigh, if only I'm better at FMC or optimizing my solves. Seriously.


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## nigtv (Nov 29, 2009)

Mazei, I like that scramble, so I figured I'd try it, did this in about 12 minutes, I might go back and look for an insertion, because it'd probably really help, anyway...oh, by the way, while you're in the habit of using cube explorer to help you out, you may want to run your scrambles through it to shorten them (or not, I do it because I suck at scrambling and have less chance of messing up an 18 turn scramble than I do a 25 turn scramble, tonight did this on a whim, so only got to 21, no time for optimal). Hope no one thinks I'm horribly silly for that O.O

Original Scramble: B2 U B' F2 D' L' F2 L R D R F' L B F' D' U' B' R2 D2 B2 L' U' L' F2
Little bit shorter one: U2 F U2 B2 U2 R2 F D2 B' D2 F' U' L U' L' U R B' F' L B'

Very obvious 2x2x2: F R F' (3)
Block 3, leaving a corner edge pair for block 4: L2 B2 L' U B' (8)
Block 4: L' U' B' (11)
Orienting: U2 F (13)
Rebuild 4 blocks, and corner edge pair broken by orienting: U2 R U' R' F' (18)
Finish edges: U' F U F' (22)
Ugly finish: B2 U F U F' D F U' F' D' B2 U2 (34)

I'm gonna go work on that insertion now.

EDIT: I'm new to the whole insertion thing (these are the first I've found!), but I THINK I found two:

1. (FRF'L2B2L'UB') U' L' U R U' L U R' (etc...) 
2. (" "L'U'B'U2FU2RU'R'F'U'F) R F' L F R F' L' F (etc..)

I'm not 100% on the numbers, as usual, but I believe that both insertions give a turn count of 31.

I'm still working on my insertions, if you guys happen to see anything better, let me know!


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## rubixfreak (Dec 1, 2009)

nigtv said:


> Mazei, I like that scramble, so I figured I'd try it, did this in about 12 minutes, I might go back and look for an insertion, because it'd probably really help, anyway...oh, by the way, while you're in the habit of using cube explorer to help you out, you may want to run your scrambles through it to shorten them (or not, I do it because I suck at scrambling and have less chance of messing up an 18 turn scramble than I do a 25 turn scramble, tonight did this on a whim, so only got to 21, no time for optimal). Hope no one thinks I'm horribly silly for that O.O
> 
> Original Scramble: B2 U B' F2 D' L' F2 L R D R F' L B F' D' U' B' R2 D2 B2 L' U' L' F2
> Little bit shorter one: U2 F U2 B2 U2 R2 F D2 B' D2 F' U' L U' L' U R B' F' L B'
> ...



This is a crazy scramble, i found the following 26 moves solution:

SCRAMBLE: U2 F U2 B2 U2 R2 F D2 B' D2 F' U' L U' L' U R B' F' L B'
1. F R F' (same 2x2x2 block) (3/3)
2. l U2 M x' (expand to double xcross) (3/6)
3. F' U' F (3rd slot) (3/9)
4. U2 L U' L' y2 (solves 6 LL pieces) (4/13)
5. U'D' R D'R'B R2 D R2 D'B'R E2 (solves the last 5 pieces) (13/26)

thanks to http://www.ws.binghamton.edu/fridrich/L1/ece.htm for the alg. tripod rocks ^^

i'm not sure if I used the correct notation for my x rotaions and M slice. I always use them like x and M same direction as R and x' and M' same direction as R'


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## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Dec 2, 2009)

In FMC theres no M/E slice I think 
And M should follow L, not R> And your x rotation is correct


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## mazei (Dec 2, 2009)

I think you can put E, M and S. But they just count as 2 moves. But I haven't competed in FMC yet so I don't know. Anyone?


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## nigtv (Dec 2, 2009)

Hyprul 9-ty2 said:


> In FMC theres no M/E slice I think
> And M should follow L, not R> And your x rotation is correct


Isn't a lowercase (double turn I guess is what you call it?) considered bad form as well? (as in l should be R x'?) I don't really know if it is or not, but figured I'd ask...

But, still, with the added MES translation turns, at 28 so better than I had!


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## miniGOINGS (Dec 2, 2009)

mazei said:


> I think you can put E, M and S. But they just count as 2 moves. But I haven't competed in FMC yet so I don't know. Anyone?



Yes, FMC is counted in HTM/FTM so M, M', M2, and the like are counted as 2 moves. Rewriting it as R L' or whatever would make much more sense to me.


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## rubixfreak (Dec 2, 2009)

y should slice moves considered as 2 moves? Its just 1 move...
i know u are going to tell me its because I rotate the centers or sth. like that, but imagine i use a LED cube or solve at my computer - theres no sence y it should be considered to be 2 moves...


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## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Dec 2, 2009)

rubixfreak said:


> y should slice moves considered as 2 moves? Its just 1 move...
> i know u are going to tell me its because I rotate the centers or sth. like that, but imagine i use a LED cube or solve at my computer - theres no sence y it should be considered to be 2 moves...


Speedsolving wiki. Now


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## nigtv (Dec 2, 2009)

Hyprul 9-ty2 said:


> rubixfreak said:
> 
> 
> > y should slice moves considered as 2 moves? Its just 1 move...
> ...





> It is important to note that in HTM a slice move actually counts as two turns, since the centers are assumed to be fixed.


http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Htm


> STM is a very popular metric for those who use methods with many slice turns (such as Roux) although the official Fewest Moves event uses HTM.


http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/STM

That 'centers assumed to be fixed' thing makes the most sense to me. 

Also, im working on the current FMC scramble (270, I believe), will get back to ya.


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## jms_gears1 (Dec 29, 2009)

why should centers assumed to be fixed?
maybe im missing something but shouldnt slice moves count as only one...


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## jms_gears1 (Dec 29, 2009)

im confused with pre-moves,
are they moves you apply before the scramble?
if so then when you solve it wouldnt you have to undo them and it wouldnt be solved?
also is their any kind of tutorial that would help me?

im extremely new to FMC so any help would be appreciated thanks : D


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 29, 2009)

jms_gears1 said:


> why should centers assumed to be fixed?
> maybe im missing something but shouldnt slice moves count as only one...


This is the convention. It is true that there are arguments that can be made for other conventions, but honestly the current convention works okay, and if we changed the convention, it would invalidate the old results. So I suggest you simply get used to the convention, since that's the way it works in competitions.



jms_gears1 said:


> im confused with pre-moves,
> are they moves you apply before the scramble?
> if so then when you solve it wouldnt you have to undo them and it wouldnt be solved?
> also is their any kind of tutorial that would help me?
> ...



A good place to start would be this thread. (Moderators, I suggest we sticky the thread - I'm surprised it's not already.) An example of premoves is given on the second page with a bit of explanation.


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## stiwi griffin (Dec 29, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> jms_gears1 said:
> 
> 
> > why should centers assumed to be fixed?
> ...



it is not a convection, a slice movement ( M' ), which counts as 2 moves, is equivalent to ( R L' X ), which also counts as 2 moves.


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## TMOY (Dec 29, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> This is the convention. It is true that there are arguments that can be made for other conventions, but honestly the current convention works okay, and if we changed the convention, it would invalidate the old results.


Switching to STM would not invalidate the old results, it would only make them easier to beat. In partiular it would give people a better chance to break that insane 22-move WR without relying on a LL skip or a similarly lucky solve.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 29, 2009)

stiwi griffin said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > jms_gears1 said:
> ...



I'm sorry - my post was terribly unclear. I meant that it is the convention to count a slice move as 2 moves, as you stated. Sorry for my unclear post.


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## jms_gears1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> jms_gears1 said:
> 
> 
> > why should centers assumed to be fixed?
> ...


Sorry i meant to ask what the arguement for this convention was just curious.


jms_gears1 said:


> im confused with pre-moves,
> are they moves you apply before the scramble?
> if so then when you solve it wouldnt you have to undo them and it wouldnt be solved?
> also is their any kind of tutorial that would help me?
> ...



A good place to start would be this thread. (Moderators, I suggest we sticky the thread - I'm surprised it's not already.) An example of premoves is given on the second page with a bit of explanation.[/QUOTE]

thanks, ive seen this thread before i dont know why i didnt go back and read it....

i agree that it should be stickied


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## stiwi griffin (Dec 30, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> stiwi griffin said:
> 
> 
> > Mike Hughey said:
> ...



no problem MIke


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## nigtv (Dec 31, 2009)

jms_gears1 said:


> im confused with pre-moves,
> are they moves you apply before the scramble?
> if so then when you solve it wouldnt you have to undo them and it wouldnt be solved?


Looking through that first post in the link he gave you, I don't think he talks about pre-moves specifically (not in the first post, I believe other people cover it later in the thread). I'm pretty new with FMC also, but AFAIK a pre-move is a move that is more abstract, which you apply before the 'start' of your solve to influence the position of things at some point later in the solve. 

I'm not really sure if that's the same pre-move everyone else talking about. I've seen them mentioned a few times recently in this thread, in association with inverse scrambles, for example;


> my solve: D' B' U B2 D' L F2 L' D R U2 R U2 B' R' U2 RU' R B' R' F2 U' L B' (25)
> explanation:
> inverse scramble: nice start: B L' U F2 (4)
> apply on normal sramble: [pre-moves F2 U' L B'] nice continuation: D' B' U B2 R2
> ...


in this post by guusrs. I've never really gotten used to inverse scrambles, and I'm still working on figuring out exactly how to use them correctly, so I don't know if this is what people are referring to either, although it seems more likely that this is what people are referring to. 

I guess it's also possible that those two uses of the term aren't mutually exclusive? Maybe an FMC veteran can clear up the confusion.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 31, 2009)

Generally, you use premoves to modify a scramble so you can solve it more easily. The most common approach for this is to solve a "pseudo-block" of some sort, where for instance you might put in a corner-edge pair of the wrong color into a 2x2x2 or 2x2x3 block. Then you find the moves necessary to put that corner-edge pair (or whatever) into it's proper location in the solved cube. If you then apply those moves to the solved cube prior to applying the scramble, you'll find that the pseudo-block becomes an actual block. Then you can add those moves to the end of your final solution and it will be solved.

Guus's solution you mention is using "NISS" - his "normal-inverse-scramble-switch" method, where you solve part of the cube with the normal scramble, then when you get stuck, you switch to the inverse scramble and use it, then when you get stuck again, you switch back to the normal scramble, and so on. I love NISS - it's really fun to do! Anyway, when you switch from normal to inverse scrambles, the moves you used at the beginning of the normal scramble solve become premoves to the inverse scramble (and vice-versa). It takes trying it to see how it really works, and it's really quite ingenious.

The best way to understand these is to look at some of the solves that others have done (like the ones in the weekly competitions) and understand how they work. Examples are much more useful than descriptions - this isn't a particularly good description, but maybe it gives you an idea of what's going on.


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## nigtv (Dec 31, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> If you then apply those moves to the solved cube prior to applying the scramble, you'll find that the pseudo-block becomes an actual block.
> 
> this isn't a particularly good description, but maybe it gives you an idea of what's going on.


That actually makes a pretty good amount of sense. I never really understood why the inverse scramble thing was so popular and seemed to yield good results. I think I'll play around with this a little and try to get my head around it, maybe I'll be able to come across some kind of example or something and see if I'm actually doing it right.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Jan 15, 2010)

Scramble: L2 R2 F2 U B2 D2 L2 F2 D' L2 D F D B2 D2 U' B' L2 R' F' R'
Solution: B' R2 F' R B2 R' F R B2 R L' B L B L' B' L B L U M U' L' U M' F' U2 F R' L2 U' B' U R2
Explanation: 
Start on inverse scramble.
Triple x-cross: R2 U' B U L2 R F' U2 F U' .
Last slot: B' L' B L B' L' B' L
COLL: R' B2 R' F' R B2 R' F R2 B
Insert at .: U M U' L U M' U' L', 2 moves cancel.

Magical start with a terrible ending, resulting in a normal solve. Can anybody find a good continuation for this start?


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## guusrs (Jan 15, 2010)

trying-to-speedcube... said:


> Scramble: L2 R2 F2 U B2 D2 L2 F2 D' L2 D F D B2 D2 U' B' L2 R' F' R'
> Solution: B' R2 F' R B2 R' F R B2 R L' B L B L' B' L B L U M U' L' U M' F' U2 F R' L2 U' B' U R2
> Explanation:
> Start on inverse scramble.
> ...



Maarten,

Did you try B' L' B' L B after Triple-X cross?
which gives a nice 15 move edge frame
Then double corner insertion?
Should definitely become sub 30!

Gus


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## cuBerBruce (Jan 17, 2010)

guusrs said:


> trying-to-speedcube... said:
> 
> 
> > Scramble: L2 R2 F2 U B2 D2 L2 F2 D' L2 D F D B2 D2 U' B' L2 R' F' R'
> ...


I solved the last 5 edges keyhole-style and got the same sequence as Gus: B' L' B' L B.

This leaves 4 corners to solve. This can lead to a 30-move "linear" solution. 

3X Cross: R2 U' B U L2 R F' U2 F U' (10)
Edges (also 1 LL corner): B' L' B' L B (15)
Corner 3-cycle to solve 1 corner: (B2 D' F2 D)2 (23-1 = 22)
Corner 3-cycle to solve last 3 corners: D' (U' L' U R2 U' L U R2) D (32-2 = 30)

Using two 3-cycle insertions for the last 4 corners, I got the move count down to 26.

First, I found an insertion for the "flexible" case of solving 1 corner, while moving the twisted corner. That leaves an ordinary corner 3-cycle for the 2nd insertion.

3X Cross: R2 U' B U L2 R F' . U2 F U' (10)
Edges (also 1 LL corner): B' L' B' L B (15)
Flexible insertion (at "."): F D' F' U' F D F' .. U (23-3 = 20)
2nd insertion (at ".."): R U' L U R' U' L' U (28-2 = 26)

(Note that the 2nd insertion has a U cancelling with a U' since the first insertion combined a U with a U2 to net a U'.)

I note that flexible insertions such as the one here seem to me to be very time-consuming to search for thoroughly because there are 4 possible 3-cycles to consider at each move in the skeleton (and each of those involve one piece in which the orientation doesn't matter). The nice thing is that there are many more opportunities for getting a high cancellation. Only getting 3 moves cancelling was somewhat disappointing. (It's quite possible I missed something, however.)


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## Stini (Feb 24, 2010)

Here is my 28-move solution from the Benelux Open:

Scramble: F2 U2 B2 R' U2 B' L' R2 U2 R2 D2 U B2 F D' L2 R F'
(Inverse scramble: F R' L2 D F' B2 U' D2 R2 U2 R2 L B U2 R B2 U2 F2)

Solution: R L2 B2 L' B' L2 U' L' U2 B' U' L2 B2 D B D L' D L2 B' R B2 R B2 R' F U F2

I used the inverse scramble with R' pre-move:

2x2x3 (without last move): F2 U' F' R B2 R' B2 R'

Some block building: B L2 D' L D' B' D' B2

Finish with a setup to short LL-alg: L2 U B U2 L U L2 B L B2 L2

Finally a decent solution in a competition! 

(btw I just realized how I could have done 26 haha, do the finishing moves like L2 B2 D B D2 R D R2 B R L2 and it cancels with the pre-move)


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## Stini (Mar 21, 2010)

I forgot to send my classic format solve for Per's weekly FMC contest #285 so here it is:

Scramble: D L2 R U2 L2 R2 D' F2 L2 R' F' R2 L D L F R D' R U2 R2 D L U B' D2 U2 B' R' L2

Solution: L' D' U2 F' D2 F U2 F' D2 R F2 U' B' z2 U L F' L2 U R U' R' U' L U2 F U' F' U2 (28 HTM)

2x2x3: L' D'. F' R F2 U' B' z2 (same as my 1h solution)
F2L minus slot: U L F' L2 U R U' R' U' L
Leave 3 corners: U2 F U' F' U2

Insert U2 F' D2 F U2 F' D2 F at the dot to cancel 2 moves.

Only one move shorter than my 1h solution, but it's only because the insertion cancelled 4 moves. I like how I build the top 1x2x2 during F2L, also I'm really satisfied that I found a 7-move 2x2x3, which actually turned out to be the only optimal solution.


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## Jude (Mar 29, 2010)

Bristol 2010 FMC scramble: D2 L U2 F2 L D' R2 B' D R2 B U' F' L2 R' D2 F L'

I'd be interested to see what solutions people come up with

My solution:



Spoiler



Double X-Cross: U2 R D' B U L R B2 L B' (10, 10)
3rd Pair: U B U B' R U R' . (7, 17)
4th Pair: U' R' U R U' B U B' (8, 25)

3 cycle, insert at .: R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2

Final Solution: U2 R D' B U L R B2 L B' U B U B' R2 U R U R U' R' U' R2 U' R' U R U' B U B' (31)


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## Stini (Mar 29, 2010)

Jude said:


> Bristol 2010 FMC scramble: D2 L U2 F2 L D' R2 B' D R2 B U' F' L2 R' D2 F L'



Solution: L' F' L2 D2 F D' B' U' F' U B L' F' L F L' F' L D U2 L2 U R U' L2 U D' L2 B (29)

From the inverse scramble you can find this 2x2x2-block: B' L2 D R' U, then I put that inversed as pre-moves for the normal scramble and a couple of extra moves.

So pre-moves for the normal scramble: L D U' R D' L2 B

2x2x3+EO: L' F' L2 D2 F D'
F2L minus slot: B' U' F' U B L'
Leave 3 corners: F' L F L' F' 
Undo pre-moves: L D U'. R D' L2 B

Insert U' L2 U R U' L2 U R' at the dot to cancel 3 moves.


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## kinch2002 (Mar 29, 2010)

Jude said:


> Bristol 2010 FMC scramble: D2 L U2 F2 L D' R2 B' D R2 B U' F' L2 R' D2 F L'



Here's my solution. I was doing well until I couldn't find a good LL. Shame. Well done on the NR Jude though!

Solution: F2 R B R' F2 R B2 R' F U' F2 B' R B' D' R' D B2 F' R F R' D R F D' F' D F D F' D' R' D B' D' (36)

Normal Scramble
Premove B' (to randomly move a block in F2L - helped with the 4th pair)
2x2x2: R .B' R' F U' F2 (6)
F2L-1: B' R B' D' R' D B2 F' R F R' (11)
Switch to inverse
4th pair: D B D' R D R' (6-1=5)
OLL+AUF: R F D' F' D' F D F' R' D' (10-1=9)
3 corner insertion at . R' F2 R B R' F2 R B' cancels 3 moves

So it was 22 move F2L but couldn't find anything better for LL. Anyone see anything good to with my LL?


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## okayama (May 9, 2010)

Hi,

I've just registered for this site, with Guus's suggestion in fmc.mustcube.net.

The scramble of Round 291 (Official/Classic) was very impressive for me. I found the following solution besides the posted one.

Scramble: L' F B2 D R D' F B' L2 U' R' U' L2 U F2 D U R' L' D' B2 F2 R2 L U F R U2 B2 R2

Solution: L' U' L U L' B' U2 B U' L2 F B2 R' F R B2 R' F' R2 F R' D' R F L' B' L' (27 htm)

(For inverse scramble)
1x2x2 block (a): (premade!!)
1x2x2 block (b): L B
1x2x2 block (c): L F' R' D R F'
F2L minus 1 slot: R' * F' L'
More 1x2x2 block: L' U B' U2 B L
All but 3 corners: U' L' U L

Insert at *: R' F R B2 R' F' R B2

The start L B L F' was used as the pre-scramble in the posted 22 moves solution.


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## guusrs (May 9, 2010)

okayama said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just registered for this site, with Guus's suggestion in fmc.mustcube.net.



Hi Tomoaki,

Welcome to this forum. I hoped you did response to my suggestion and you did!
You have become a expert FMC-solver and very hard to beat. 
You know all the tricks, inclusing NISS. I advice almost every FMC-competitor to learn more LL-algs. My advice to you is: *don't!* It's very dangerous

That 22-mover for #291 was awesome. I too "smelled" a short solve but I got stuck on 25 moves. 

I saw you best competition solve is 31 moves. I'm sure you can improve. When is your next competition?

Did you know there is a weekly competition on this forum? (see the Weekly Forum Competitions on the Forum) including a FMC part?

Well hope to hear from you more often.

Gus


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## okayama (May 10, 2010)

Thanks for your comments, Guus.



> I advice almost every FMC-competitor to learn more LL-algs. My advice to you is: *don't!* It's very dangerous



Hmm, did you mean that I should NOT learn so many LL-algs? Why do you think so? I'm very curious.

I thought it's nothing wrong with knowing LL-algs as many as possible. They are useful when one finds a short (pseudo) F2L, and in fact it seems that you successfully implemented the strategy many times in FMC. I currently know only a few OLL and PLL, so I envy LL-algs experts like you.



> I saw you best competition solve is 31 moves. I'm sure you can improve. When is your next competition?



My latest average (10 of 12) in 1-hr solve FMC is 32.8 (excluding DNF), so it might be difficult to break the record at present. 

Unfortunately FMC is a very very minor event in Japan (only 3 times so far). If the worst happens the next competition will be Japan Open 2011. But I've heard a bit about a big cube competition held in summer this year, so I hope there will be FMC in the competition.



> Did you know there is a weekly competition on this forum? (see the Weekly Forum Competitions on the Forum) including a FMC part?



Wow, there are many events. Thanks for letting me know, I will participate in it before very long.


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## jms_gears1 (May 10, 2010)

okayama said:


> Thanks for your comments, Guus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I Believe Guus was saying that you should not learn LL algs in jest. I could have read it wrong however.

I need to start looking into FMC, its one of the few things i would like to be good at.

And welcome to the forums.


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## okayama (May 10, 2010)

> I Believe Guus was saying that you should not learn LL algs in jest. I could have read it wrong however.



OK ha-ha, why don't we become dangerous together?


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## guusrs (May 10, 2010)

okayama said:


> OK ha-ha, why don't we become dangerous together?


You got it
Gus


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## Olivér Perge (May 11, 2010)

I got a really easy scramble during speedsolving and decided to try for FMC too:

D' R' D' L' B' F' D' B F2 R' B' F U L' R F2 U R2 D' R' D' U B F L



Spoiler



F2L: x2 U2 L’ F2 L U2 L’ F’ L’ F U R’ F’ U F R (15)
LL: F U R U’ R’ F’ R’ U2 R U R’ U R (13)
Total: 28 

Another solution with a similar start, but illegal, because I looked up the ELL algorithm:

F2L: D2 L’ B2 L’ D2 L’ B L’ B’ D R’ D R’ (13)
ELL: x2 U’ F U R’ U’ R2 F’ R’ U R U’ R2 (12)
Total: 25


I think you guys can do a low 20ish on that one.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (May 11, 2010)

After taking a long time to remember the alg Guus taught me at worlds I found this:

Scramble: D' R' D' L' B' F' D' B F2 R' B' F U L' R F2 U R2 D' R' D' U B F L

D2 L' B2 L D2 L' B' L' B D R' D R' S D S' D S D' S' D' R2 (26 HTM)

Other starts:
D2 L' B2 L D2 L' B' L' B R' D2 R B D B' R' B R D' R' B' R D2 (23 HTM leaving 3 corners)
D2 L' B2 L D2 L' B' L' B R' D2 R F D F' D F D2 F' (19 HTM leaving 3 edges)


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## guusrs (May 11, 2010)

trying-to-speedcube... said:


> After taking a long time to remember the alg Guus taught me at worlds I found this:
> 
> Scramble: D' R' D' L' B' F' D' B F2 R' B' F U L' R F2 U R2 D' R' D' U B F L
> 
> ...



Well done, I'm proud of you!
And that's exactly what I found in 5 minutes or so.
But I think getting sub-25 is very hard on this scramble.
Anyone?
Gus


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## deepSubDiver (May 11, 2010)

guusrs said:


> trying-to-speedcube... said:
> 
> 
> > After taking a long time to remember the alg Guus taught me at worlds I found this:
> ...



L2 B2 D L B' L' D B2 R' (9 HTM leaving 3 edges + 4 corners), but couldn't find nice comm's or insertions


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## okayama (May 12, 2010)

Scramble: D' R' D' L' B' F' D' B F2 R' B' F U L' R F2 U R2 D' R' D' U B F L

Solution: L2 B R B' R2 B' R F D B2 D' F' D2 R B' L2 B' R' B L2 B' R' (22 htm)

(For inverse scramble)

Pre-scramble: L2

2x2x2 block: (done by the pre-scramble)
2x2x3 block: R2 + B2 R' D2
Orient edges: D * B2 D'
F2L minus 1 slot: R' B R
All but 4 corners: R B R' B'
Correction: L2

Insert at *: D' F D B2 D' F' D B2
Insert at +: R' B L2 B' R B L2 B'


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## guusrs (May 12, 2010)

okayama said:


> Scramble: D' R' D' L' B' F' D' B F2 R' B' F U L' R F2 U R2 D' R' D' U B F L
> 
> Solution: L2 B R B' R2 B' R F D B2 D' F' D2 R B' L2 B' R' B L2 B' R' (22 htm)
> 
> ...



I underestimated you.......
Gus


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## Olivér Perge (May 12, 2010)

okayama said:


> Scramble: D' R' D' L' B' F' D' B F2 R' B' F U L' R F2 U R2 D' R' D' U B F L
> 
> Solution: L2 B R B' R2 B' R F D B2 D' F' D2 R B' L2 B' R' B L2 B' R' (22 htm)



Wow, just wow!


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## trying-to-speedcube... (May 12, 2010)

okayama said:


> Scramble: D' R' D' L' B' F' D' B F2 R' B' F U L' R F2 U R2 D' R' D' U B F L
> 
> Solution: L2 B R B' R2 B' R F D B2 D' F' D2 R B' L2 B' R' B L2 B' R' (22 htm)


 That's insane! I never really tried premoves/inverse scramble... It seemed too easy to get advantage out of that xD


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## deepSubDiver (May 16, 2010)

Just got a scramble from a friend who had a nice speedsolving time with it. Almost got my PB 



> scramble:
> L2 D' B F D B' F U' F' L' F' R B' F' R F' D2 U F' R2 F U' L R' D2
> 
> 222:	(4/4)
> ...


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## okayama (May 18, 2010)

I participated in the weekly competition for the first time. (2010-20)

Scramble: L R' B' L2 D R' U' R F2 R U' F' U2 L2 B' U F2 R2

The given scramble looks so nice, since there are a lot of c/e pairs. However I could not get sub 30 in 1 hour... and even after that I can't go more than 28 moves.

If anyone finds a better solution or improvement of my solutions, please give a reply here.

Here are my solutions:

Scramble: L R' B' L2 D R' U' R F2 R U' F' U2 L2 B' U F2 R2
Solution 1: F2 B' R' U' R U2 B L2 F2 R2 B R' B2 L' B R B' L B D2 R' F R D' F2 D' L' D (28 htm)



Spoiler



(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: F2

1x2x2 block (a): D'
1x2x2 block (b): L D F2 D R'
1x2x2 block (c): F'
Move c/e pairs: R D2 * R' B R B'
F2L minus 1 slot: R2 F2 L2
All but 3 corners: B' U2 R' U R B
Correction: F2

Insert at *: B' L' B R' B' L B R



Scramble: L R' B' L2 D R' U' R F2 R U' F' U2 L2 B' U F2 R2
Solution 2: F R' B' D B U' B' D' B R U F R B U2 F' U F U' R' U2 B U2 B L F' D R2 U R' (30 htm)



Spoiler



The same start (first 10 moves) as my 1-hr solution.

(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: F2

1x2x2 block (a): R U' R2
1x2x2 block (b): D'
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: F L' B2
Orient edges: B U2 B'
1x2x2 to 1x2x3: U2 R
More 1x2x2 block: U F' U' F
Finish F2L: U2 B'
All but 3 corners: R' F' U' R' * U R F
Correction: F2

Insert at *: B' D B U B' D' B' U'


In this solution, 18 moves are needed for solving F2L (including premove), but I found 17 moves F2L as follows:

Scramble: L R' B' L2 D R' U' R F2 R U' F' U2 L2 B' U F2 R2

(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: U R2 U R U2 F2 B'

1x2x2 block (a): R U' R2
1x2x2 block (b): D'
1x2x2 block (c): F
Finish F2L: L' B' U B' U

However I could not find a good continuation and gave up using the frame.


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## guusrs (May 18, 2010)

okayama said:


> I participated in the weekly competition for the first time. (2010-20)
> 
> Scramble: L R' B' L2 D R' U' R F2 R U' F' U2 L2 B' U F2 R2
> 
> The given scramble looks so nice, since there are a lot of c/e pairs. However I could not get sub 30 in 1 hour... and even after that I can't go more than 28 moves.



Hi Tomoaki

Welcome to the weekly competitions. We can now compete on two forums each week!
Despite all those pairs this week wasn't an easy scramble after all.
I got 28 moves too, but just within the hour. 
I used NISS this time, actually I'm not a frequent user of my own invention....

R' B R F2 R B U' B' U' R2 U F' U F U2 B' R' B R U R2 B2 L F' D R2 U R' (28)

start on inverse scramble: with premoves [B' F2] R U' R2 D' F L' B2
switch to regular scramble with premoves [B2 L F' D R2 U R']
F2L: R' B R F2 R B U' B' U' R2 U F' U F U' (15)
LL: U' B' R' B R U R2 (21)
pre-move correction: B2 L F' D R2 U R' (28) 

Gus


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## ribonzz (May 19, 2010)

Well FMC are really hard to win. The average winner takes it's time about 8 seconds, need a lot of practice not algorithms..


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## okayama (May 19, 2010)

Hi Guus,

Hmm, you also thought it not so easy after all. But Sub 30 in 1 hour is still wonderful!



guusrs said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > I participated in the weekly competition for the first time. (2010-20)
> ...



That is exactly the same start (2x2x3 block building) I found in 1 hour! But I never tried to switch the normal scramble at this point because I couldn't see any c/e pair there. In reality, however, there is a c/e pair at a nice place in the normal scramble! I misunderstood the situation... Very informative, thank you.


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## undick (May 21, 2010)

Hello all, i'm new on this forum. And also FMC-Lover. This is my first post.
all FMC Guru are here!! very nice 


Benelux Open 2010 - 27 moves, 40 minutes.

Scramble : F2 U2 B2 R' U2 B' L' R2 U2 R2 D2 U B2 F D' L2 R F'

Solution : D R D F D' F' R' F D F' D R D R' D2 R2 B2 R2 D' R2 D' L' F2 L2 F U R (27 moves)

for Inverse Scramble : F R' L2 D F' B2 U' D2 R2 U2 R2 L B U2 R B2 U2 F2

2x2x2 : R' U' F' L2 F2 L (6/6)
2x2x3 : D R2 D R2 B2 (5/11)
Finish F2L : R2 D2 R D' R' D' F D' F' (9/20)
OLL : R F D F' D' R' (6/26) --> skip PLL
AUF : D' (1/27)

inverse all to get solution..


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## okayama (Jun 2, 2010)

From FMC200, which was considered as a tough scramble by Mirek Goljan.

Scramble: F2 U2 D2 F' B D U' B F R B R' U L D2 L D U' L U2 L' F B2 D2 B' L2 F B2 L' F'
Solution: U2 F U' D' L B' D' B D' L U' L2 U' L D' L' U2 L D F U2 F U2 F' (24 htm)

Pre-scramble: F

2x2x2 block: U2 F U'
Siamese 2x2x2: D' L B' D' B D'
More 1x2x2: L U' L' U
Orient edges: U' L' U * L
All but 3 corners: F U2 F U2 F2
Pre-move correction: F

Insert at *: U2 L D' L' U2 L D L'


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## Stini (Jun 2, 2010)

I have also tried scramble #200 a while ago, here's my almost linear try:

Solution: L' F B U2 B' D2 L2 D' R' D L2 D' R2 U2 F2 B F' U F B U L U' L' B2 (25 HTM)

2x2x2: L' F B U2 B' D.
2x2x3: R U2 F2
F2L minus slot: B F' U F B'
Leave 3 corners: B2 U L U' L' B2 (1 move cancelled)

Insert D L2 D' R' D L2 D' R at the dot to cancel 2 moves.


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## okayama (Jun 2, 2010)

Stini said:


> I have also tried scramble #200 a while ago, here's my almost linear try:
> 
> Solution: L' F B U2 B' D2 L2 D' R' D L2 D' R2 U2 F2 B F' U F B U L U' L' B2 (25 HTM)
> 
> ...



Quite elegant finish (the last step)! I'm impressed.

You beat all participants in FMC200 with an (almost) linear solve! I needed near 1-hour to get my solution above actually, after much trial and error.


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## Stini (Jun 2, 2010)

okayama said:


> Stini said:
> 
> 
> > I have also tried scramble #200 a while ago, here's my almost linear try:
> ...



I was just lucky that I didn't face any tricky situations.  That last step is a common trick in Heise method that I use often to build a 1x2x2-block on top, check F2 conjugation here, but you can also use it as an optimal F2L-alg. Now it just happened to solve both.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jun 3, 2010)

Stini said:


> Solution: L' F B U2 B' D2 L2 D' R' D L2 D' R2 U2 F2 B F' U F B U L U' L' B2 (25 HTM)



I have a slight optimization for this.

L' F B U2 B' D2 L2 D' R' D L2 D' R2 U2 F B U F B U L U' L' B2 (24HTM)


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## Stini (Jun 4, 2010)

Swordsman Kirby said:


> Stini said:
> 
> 
> > Solution: L' F B U2 B' D2 L2 D' R' D L2 D' R2 U2 F2 B F' U F B U L U' L' B2 (25 HTM)
> ...



Haha, thanks for improving my solution


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## undick (Jun 6, 2010)

Scramble from Biweekly Forum Competition#3 in Indonesia Cubing Forum (rubikku.ning.com)

Scramble : U B' F L2 D2 U' B2 F L' F' U2 B U2 R D R D2 U2 B' D2 U' B' F' D F

Solution : B L' B2 L' B2 L2 D L B R B' D' R D' F D' B' D F' D2 R' U' B' U B R B' (27 moves)

2x2x3 : B L' B2 L' B2 L2 D L (8/8)
Finish F2L : B R B' D' R D2 * B' D' (8/16)
Leave 3 corner : R' U' B' U B R (6/22)
AUF : B' (1/23)

Insert at * : D F D' B' D F' D' B (4/27) cancel 4 moves


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## Cielo (Jun 7, 2010)

I didn't realize there is fmc in the weekly competition here until I see this thread…
I participated in the last two competitions on fmc.mustcube.net and got a 33f and a 29f.

But I think it's lucky for me to get a sub-30 solution, because I don't have a good method to solve the last layer. Sometimes I have to use OLL + PLL.


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## Ranzha (Jun 7, 2010)

Uhm, erm, I didn't know that there was an FMC thread.
So I'll just post a cool beans FMC solve I did....



Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> Okay, I never do FMC, but I just got this awesome scramble and decided to FMC it.
> Scramble: U F2 R2 D2 F2 D' R F2 U F2 U' R' F2 R2 D' U B.
> Scramble with W/G U/F.
> 
> ...



I just had a question: "Am I doin' it right?"
Am I on the right track to FMC?


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## Stini (Jun 7, 2010)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> Uhm, erm, I didn't know that there was an FMC thread.
> So I'll just post a cool beans FMC solve I did....
> 
> 
> ...



Your block building seems to be quite efficient, so you are definitely on the right track.  

OLL and PLL are seldom useful for FMC, so you should try to learn more advanced methods to finish your solve. I usually try to solve the cube intuitively until I have only 3 corners left, which can be solved with a short commutator and most of the time you can cancel some moves if you solve those corners somewhere in the middle of your solve with an insertion.

There are also other useful techniques such as pseudo blocks and pre-moves, which are really useful and you should try to learn to use those if you already haven't.

Also I find that using rotations makes it easier to make mistakes, especially during insertions, so I try to avoid using those. I guess it also looks neater. 

Keep practicing!


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## Stini (Jun 7, 2010)

Nothing special really, but I think this is my first sub-30 linear solve (I don't practice linear solving much, so I haven't got any lucky solves). I spent a bit less than 2 minutes for the whole solution.

Scramble: D R' B2 U' F' R D' U2 L' B' U' D' R F' U2 F' R F' D L2 R D2 U2 L' R

Solution: R D' U2 R2 U2 B L B' R' B' F U2 F' B L' B' U' z R U' L' U u R2 u' R2 U2 L U' R2 (29 HTM)

Double x-cross: R D' U2 R2 U2 B L B' R' B'
Leave 3-corners: F U2 F' B L' B' U' (more obvious after L U)
Solve the corners: z R U' L' U u R2 u' R2 U2 L U' R2

The corner alg cancels two moves, so actually the solution is 27 moves, but I noticed that too late.


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## undick (Jun 8, 2010)

Cielo said:


> I didn't realize there is fmc in the weekly competition here until I see this thread…
> I participated in the last two competitions on fmc.mustcube.net and got a 33f and a 29f.
> 
> But I think it's lucky for me to get a sub-30 solution, because I don't have a good method to solve the last layer. Sometimes I have to use OLL + PLL.



I've got 28 on 1-hour llimit fmc.mustcube last week. My first sub-30 on fmc.mustcube. FMC is rock!!.

Still learning more officient blockbuilding and last layer.


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## Ranzha (Jun 8, 2010)

Stini said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice! I kind of figured OLL/PLL is not an efficient way for FMC< and I didn't really know anything else.
I NEVER, EVER do block-building, so this trial was cool since I had a lot of breathing space.

I like using rotations, and I made sure I wrote rotations down and checked them for the correct notation (x from x', e.g.). I made sure that I checked orientation of the cube (say, U/F W/G to U/F R/B) if I had to switch a base colour, as it appears I did twice in my solve. Also, cancelling moves are koo too.

I'mma learn CLL/ELL, COLL, and perhaps MGLS this summer. Time will tell fo sho!


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## okayama (Jun 8, 2010)

The last week's FMC ( fmc.mustcube.net ) was quite high-level! Almost all participants got sub-30...

Here is my first sub-30 solution in 1-hr limit (July 25, 2009). That was my 4th FMC.

Scramble: L2 R D2 R2 L2 F D U' B2 L2 B D' L' U' F2 U2 L B D' B R2 D' U R L'
Solution: U L' U L2 D' F' U F' z B2 R' B' R2 U' R U B' U B U L U L' U2 F' U B' U' F U2 (29 htm)

1x2x2 block: U L' U L2 
2x2x2 block: D' F' U F'
2x2x3 block: (z) B2 R2
Orient edges: R B' R2 U' R
F2L minus 1 slot: U B'
Finish F2L: U B U B'
Solve edges: B L U L' U' B'
Corner OLL: B U' F' U B' U' F
AUF: U2

Nothing special, I was just lucky. In fact the next sub-30 appeared after 4 months (FMC277).


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## undick (Jun 10, 2010)

I want to ask about premove.

How do you know with some premove you will get better blockbuilding moves? i mean not a premove for blockbuilding, but premove as a part of blockbuilding.

i really stuck.


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## Matt S (Jun 10, 2010)

Blah made a nice post in this thread about the technique I think you're asking about.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=241389#post241389


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## guusrs (Jun 10, 2010)

undick said:


> I want to ask about premove.
> 
> How do you know with some premove you will get better blockbuilding moves? i mean not a premove for blockbuilding, but premove as a part of blockbuilding.
> 
> i really stuck.



Hi,

Pre-moves, or sets of pre-moves can be found using NISS.
For example: If a move makes a pair on the inverse scramble, the inverse move as pre-scramble will generate a pair on the normal scramble. And vice versa.
The same holds for sequences of moves that create blocks.

So shortly: useful pre-moves for the normal scramble can be found with the inverse scramble!

Gus


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## undick (Jun 10, 2010)

guusrs said:


> Hi,
> 
> Pre-moves, or sets of pre-moves can be found using NISS.
> For example: If a move makes a pair on the inverse scramble, the inverse move as pre-scramble will generate a pair on the normal scramble. And vice versa.
> ...



Oh yeah, of course i'm already understand about that. But, in some of solution, i found that premove not generate a pair. Only change the colour of cubies at a place. i really didn't know about "how do you know the cubies in normal scramble, change to potential cubies in inverse scramble/after premove?".


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## undick (Jun 10, 2010)

Matt S said:


> Blah made a nice post in this thread about the technique I think you're asking about.
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=241389#post241389



Yeah. That quite nice technique. But, that wasnt' technique i ask. 

Thanks Matt. ^_^


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## Cride5 (Jun 10, 2010)

undick said:


> guusrs said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...



I sometimes use premoves when I have an F2L composed of pseudo blocks. For example, if you've completed a 2x2x3 and then you see a nice 1x2x2 which normally forms part of your last layer, you can just complete F2L with that block. If you re-scramble but apply the move you used to place that pseudo block then the block will now belong to the F2L.

Looking at this example from weekly comp #23:
Scramble: L D2 F' L2 B2 R2 D L2 R D2 L2 B' D' F R' F' D'
F2L-1: D' L' B D2 U2 R2 B2 D F2 L2 D' B' U' B

Gives this situation:


It's fine to just complete the LL from here, undoing the pseudo block at the end, but you can make your life easier by applying the premove D2 to get this F2L:


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## Matt S (Jun 10, 2010)

undick said:


> Matt S said:
> 
> 
> > Blah made a nice post in this thread about the technique I think you're asking about.
> ...



Sorry, your first comment made it seem like you wanted to know how to do "premoves" _during_ the block-build, which isn't true of what people normally premoves (Those are applied before the scramble to make pseudo-blocks look like real blocks, like Cride showed). I'm glad you found the link useful anyway.


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## undick (Jun 10, 2010)

Cride5 said:


> I sometimes use premoves when I have an F2L composed of pseudo blocks. For example, if you've completed a 2x2x3 and then you see a nice 1x2x2 which normally forms part of your last layer, you can just complete F2L with that block. If you re-scramble but apply the move you used to place that pseudo block then the block will now belong to the F2L.
> 
> Looking at this example from weekly comp #23:
> Scramble: L D2 F' L2 B2 R2 D L2 R D2 L2 B' D' F R' F' D'
> ...



Wow. Nice explanation Cride

What i'm asking about is just like this solution. This is Guus solution at fmc.mustcube last week.

Scramble : U' F R2 F R L U' B2 U D2 B' D B' L2 B' F U F' U F B2 D2 U B U2 B D2 F2 L2 B' 

Solution : D' R' B U R U' B2 R' U R' U D2 F2 R U L U' R' U L' U L2 F2 B2 U' R2 L (27 moves)

solve in inverse scramble with premove [D]
F2L+edge frame: L' R2 U B2 F2 L2 U2.F2 D2 U' R U' R B2 U R' U' R (19)
premove correction: D (20)
at dot insert U L U' R U L' U' R', 1 move cancels



Premove D mean D' in normal scramble. 1 pair is premade
And with D' applying in normal scramble, i don't see any potential pair, that just break up 1 Inner Pair (Red-Blue). How do you get this premove? Can you explain?

Thanks.


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## nlCuber22 (Jun 10, 2010)

...That's not Guus >_>


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## Cride5 (Jun 10, 2010)

undick said:


> Premove D mean D' in normal scramble. 1 pair is premade
> And with D' applying in normal scramble, i don't see any potential pair, that just break up 1 Inner Pair (Red-Blue). How do you get this premove? Can you explain?
> 
> Thanks.



I guess Guus will be able to explain properly later, but it looks like the premove is being used to correct a pseudoblock in this case.

If you take the inverse scramble: B L2 F2 D2 B' U2 B' U' D2 B2 F' U' F U' F' B L2 B D' B D2 U' B2 U L' R' F' R2 F' U 
Then apply the moves for F2L: L' R2 U B2 F2 L2 U2.F2 D2 U' R U' R B2 U R' U' R
... you will see a 1x2x2 block in DFR which is out of alignment by D. Applying the premove D at the beginning of the inverse scramble allows that block to become part of F2L without destroying any of the other pairs. The use of the premove here isn't anything to do with NISS, it just happens that Guus found a nice solution using pseudoblocks on the inverse scramble.


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## Stini (Jun 10, 2010)

Cride5 said:


> The use of the premove here isn't anything to do with NISS



I know I'm nitpicking here, but technically pseudo block corrections are also part of NISS since you can find the premove to fix a pseudo block using the inverse scramble. But I agree that it's useful to think pseudo blocks separate from NISS, it's just simpler that way. 

Also to undick: you can't always see the reason for pre-moves from the initial state. Sometimes you might notice for example after building a 2x2x3-block that by using a pre-move, you would get a pair. But you would see this pair only *after* solving the 2x2x3-block.


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## undick (Jun 10, 2010)

Oh, yeah. I see. Premove is very complex. So, i can use premove as far as not destroying any of the other, right? I always use premove only for a fix block or pair. Cride and Stini, thanks very much. 

I just got 29 moves on WFC-24. Sub-30 without any premoves. Hehe


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## guusrs (Jun 10, 2010)

Stini said:


> Cride5 said:
> 
> 
> > The use of the premove here isn't anything to do with NISS
> ...



Conrad, this is me! 
And you explained well how I found that premove at that 27-move solve. 

But Teemu is right, I wasn't complete at all, I was realy busy at work and then decided to give a quick reply. Conclusion: Some (sequences of) pre-moves are found with NISS, Others pre-moves correct pseudo blocks during a solve. 
Most important: Undick seems to understand all this now.

Gus


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## undick (Jun 10, 2010)

guusrs said:


> Most important: Undick seems to understand all this now.
> 
> Gus



:fp. Not at all before i try it. Nice explanation.


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## Cerberus (Jun 13, 2010)

From Cologne Open, my national record, which I don't deserve since I am not quite into fmc and am just going for PLL skip and some nice F2L 
But I got a 29 this time.. after finding a brilliant 16 move F2L

Scramble:
B2 F2 R2 U' R2 B2 R2 B2 U F' R2 B' U2 R B D' U2 R B2 U' 

Solution
x2 R U' F D L' D2 2x2 block and saving the pair
U B' R' U' F R' F' finishing tripple x-cross now L U L' give you 16 move F2L
L U2 L' U L U2 L' F2L after some tries for better LL =)
y L' U2 L U 2 L F' L' F U2 OLL with PLL skip


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## mr. giggums (Jun 14, 2010)

So I'm thinking of starting FMC. So this is my first FMC solve...

Scramble: B2 D R2 D2 B' D B2 D' U B2 U2 F' L2 U' L' R' U L D2 L' U2 R2 F' L' R'

2x2x2: B R2 B' D L F2
2x2x3: B' R D' R2 D2 B2 D B2 D
EO: R D' R' D
F2L: R2 B' R2 B'
EJF2L: R B' R' B R' B3 R' B' R' B' R2 B2
PLL: R' D B' D F2 D' B' D F2 D2 B2

total of 46


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Jun 14, 2010)

Cerberus said:


> From Cologne Open, my national record, which I don't deserve since I am not quite into fmc and am just going for PLL skip and some nice F2L
> But I got a 29 this time.. after finding a brilliant 16 move F2L
> 
> Scramble:
> ...



R U' R' B2 R' B2
F D' L2 F
D2 F' D F2 D2 F' D' F D F'
L' D L D' L' D2 R D' L D' R' D' R D' R' D

Linear 36-move solution found after 5 minutes; I couldn't find anything nice after that


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## Cerberus (Jun 14, 2010)

I got this F2L after 1 Minute straight forward =) then just searching around for better LLs


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## Ranzha (Jun 15, 2010)

I did this FMC because I saw a potential x-cross. And then ZOMG.

Try this out! FOR SRS!

Scramble:
F2 R2 B2 L2 R2 U' R2 F2 D2 U B2 D' U2 R' F D2 F' D R' F U' R

*2x2x2:* z2 R U2 R2 U' F [5/5]
*2x2x3:* x' U2 L y' R' U' R [5/10]
(WAIT! WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN)
*Solving the two pairs on the R face:* y x' D' L' U L U2 D' F R' F' R D2 U [12/22]
*EO:* z U2 x R U R' U' x' U2 R U R U' R2 [11/33]
*Solving corners* R2 D' R2 U2 F2 U L' U' L F2 U2 R' D R [14/47]

I was just liek WHAT?!


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## Gurplex2 (Jun 15, 2010)




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## Meep (Jun 15, 2010)

Gurplex2 said:


>



Should move it here lol


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## Sa967St (Jun 15, 2010)

Gurplex2 said:


> 9x9 pop video


I think you meant to put that in this thread.


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## Gurplex2 (Jun 15, 2010)

Sa967St said:


> Gurplex2 said:
> 
> 
> > 9x9 pop video
> ...



lolol YEAH
I like how that was my 3rd fastest solve ever... oh well


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## okayama (Jun 15, 2010)

I tried to get sub-30 for Weekly competition 2010-24 after 1-hour, but I couldn't. Here are another solution and a promising start. Could anyone find a way of improving it?



Spoiler



Scramble: F2 D2 F L2 D' R' F2 U L2 R2 D B D2 R' B2 L2 D L
Solution: B' L' B' U R' U2 R2 F' U2 B' U L' F R2 F' L F R2 U' B U R' B' R B2 L' F D2 B' D (30 htm)

(For inverse scramble)

Pre-scramble: U' B L B

1x2x2 block: D' B D2
2x2x3 block: F' L B'
Orient edges: B' R' B R F' + U F
All but 2 twisted corners: R' * D R' U2 R D'
Pre-scramble correction: U' B L B

Insert at *: R' U2 R D R' U2 R D' (leave 4 corners, 11 moves cancel)
Insert at +: F U' B' U F' % U' B U (leave 3 corners)
Insert at %: F R2 F' L' F R2 F' L

First insertion gives a 19 moves frame with 4 corners left, but I couldn't find nice insertions that bring sub-30...

The following start (triple X-cross with 13 moves) also looks nice for me, but I couldn't find a good continuation.

(For inverse scramble)

Pre-scramble: B L B

1x2x2 block: D' B D2
2x2x3 block: F' L B'
Orient edges: B' R' B
F2L minus 1 slot: R' U



Aside from this, I will go to MRCC, Będlewo, Poland next week (June 20 -- 26). Could someone tell me what's the temperature around the area?


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## Snigel (Jun 20, 2010)

*First FMC*

Hello!

This weeks FMC was my first ever and I write this in order to get some feedback. I haven't been cubing for very long and I don't have such a deep understanding as some people here seem to have. I have learnt Petrus, Heisse (just for a few hours) and a 3-cycle method for BLD. I know full PLL, but not full OLL. i say this just to give you an idea of what I can and can't do. If someone has the time to comment on what I did for this week's FMC, I'd be delighted!

Here is the scramble: R' D U B D' L R B' F' U2 B2 F' U' F R B D' B2 U' D2 R D2 B' D B D' R2 L B L2 

And my solution:
2x2: F' B' R' D' B' D2 (6/6)
2x2x3: F . U' R F R2 (5/11)
Extend: U' F2 U2 F' L F2 L2 (7/18)
EO: U2 L (2/20)
EP: F U F' U' (4/24)
Corners: R' D R U' R' D' R U (8/32)

Insert at dot : F' D' F U2 F' D F U2 (cancels four, so 8/40 - 4 = 36)

I know basic block building from Petrus, but since I've only used it for speedcubing before, I still find it pretty hard to find optimal solutions, especially after the 2x2x2 is built (and obviously, my 2x2x2 wasn't the best around either). I wasted even more moves on the extension of the block.

The ending seems better and I also tried to find an insertion, which went pretty well, although that might just have been luck.

My biggest problem, I think, is that it takes me ages to do the practical things. I often screw something up and don't remember how to revert, meaning I have to solve the cube and scramble it again, which takes perhaps a minute. I don't know how long it took me to find this solution, but it was probably a couple of hours.

So, any suggestions where I can improve?

Cheers!

Olle Linge
http://www.snigel.nu


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## PM 1729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Its very good for your first attempt. 

The block building does not need to be optimal. Try to explore possibilities which have better continuations. 

Learn how premoves work (if you don't already know). It will help you a lot.

Finally ,you should practice to reduce the time you take to find a good solution. 

All the best!


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## undick (Jun 20, 2010)

*fmc.mustcube #299 1-hour limit*

Scramble : B2 F2 R' L2 U2 R2 L2 D L' U R F2 L D' L' D2 U' B U2 D' B2 U' F D2 F' B2 L R B2 F'

Solution: B R' F2 L F' D F' D2 F2 L2 F U2 D R2 U2 L' F' U' L2 D' B' F L2 B F' D' L2 (27 moves)

*Found with NISS*

Normal scramble : B R' (1x2x2) 

Inverse scramble : U F L U2 R2 D' U2 F' L2 F2 (Pseudo block+3rd F2L) 

Normal Scramble : [B R'] F2 L F' D

Inverse Scramble : [U F L U2 R2 D' U2 F' L2 F2] D2 F 

*Final* <--- for inverse scramble
Premove from normal scramble : D' F L' F2 R B'

2x2x3 : U * F L U2 R2 D' U2 F' L2 (9/9)
Leave 3 edges : F2 D2 F (3/12)
Undo Premove : D' F L' F2 R B' (6/18)

I found edges cycle at * with L2 U' D2 M' D2 M U L2 (10 moves). When i check all my solution, the cube is not solved. And i try to remove the edges cycle, then the remaining edges become to U Perm. Is this right? I don't understand about edges cycle. At least, this is my first edges cycle try in a solution. Can you tell me about this?

So, i use U Perm L2 D' B' F L2 B F' D' L2 (9 moves)
*
Final Solution*

Solution from inverse scramble : B R' F2 L F' D F' D2 F2 L2 F U2 D R2 U2 L' F' U' (18/18)
PLL U : L2 D' B' F L2 B F' D' L2 (9/27))


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## cuBerBruce (Jun 20, 2010)

Snigel said:


> Hello!
> 
> This weeks FMC was my first ever and I write this in order to get some feedback. I haven't been cubing for very long and I don't have such a deep understanding as some people here seem to have. I have learnt Petrus, Heisse (just for a few hours) and a 3-cycle method for BLD. I know full PLL, but not full OLL. i say this just to give you an idea of what I can and can't do. If someone has the time to comment on what I did for this week's FMC, I'd be delighted!
> 
> ...



Snigel, I also would say that is very nice first FMC attempt.

My suggestion is that when you have a 5-cycle of corners for the ending, to consider using two insertions, rather than just one (at least, if you have the time). I took a look at your skeleton, and found it to be fairly rich in good insertion points for the 5-cycle ending (after your "EP" step).

I found two 8-move insertions with 4 moves cancelling.

The first is the same as the insertion you found. The second is after the nineteenth move and solves (URF, UFL, RUB) of the original 5-cycle. As it turns out, this insertion solves the pieces that remain unsolved by the first insertion! This means your solution could have been reduced to 32 moves using both insertions.

F' B' R' D' B' D F U2 F' D F U R F R2 U' F2 U2 F' L F2 L2 U2 F R' F' L F R U F' U' (32)

I labeled the corners of the 5-cycle this way:
1 = UFL, 2 = RUB, 3 = ULB, 4 = LFD, 5 = URF

The first 3-cycle insertion (the one you used) cycles (2,3,4). The later insertion cycles (5,1,2). Note that the earlier 3-cycle starts with 2, and the later 3-cycle ends with 2. (The cycles must be labeled in "consecutive order" for this to work; you can't rewrite (2,3,4) as (3,4,2). That is, you must write the possible 3-cycles as (1,2,3), (2,3,4), (3,4,5), (4,5,1), and (5,1,2).) Then if you have an insertion for (n,*,*) *earlier* in the skeleton than another insertion for (*,*,n), the two insertions together will solve the 5-cycle. (Just avoid insertions too close together that the desired cancellations interfere with each other.)

Of course, alternatively you could apply one 3-cycle, and then look at what 3-cycle you have left when you apply the solution including that insertion. Then, look for an insertion for that 3-cycle.


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## PM 1729 (Jun 21, 2010)

undick said:


> *fmc.mustcube #299 1-hour limit*
> 
> *Final* <--- for inverse scramble
> Premove from normal scramble : D' F L' F2 R B'
> ...



First of all, you shouldn't post solutions before the round has ended. 

Anyway, that is an extremely inefficient way of doing that cycle. it can be done as U' M B2 M' B2 U which is M U2 M' U2 conjugate. Most edge insertions can be done using this. 

I haven't gone through the entire solve. I'll post a better insertion once the round is over.


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## Snigel (Jun 21, 2010)

PM 1729 said:


> Its very good for your first attempt.
> 
> The block building does not need to be optimal. Try to explore possibilities which have better continuations.
> 
> ...





cuBerBruce said:


> Snigel said:
> 
> 
> > Hello!
> ...



First of all, thanks for your encouragement and your advice! I think I understand most of what you're talking about, even though I might not yet be able to apply it. I have a few questions, though!

*Premoves:* A move done prior to the scramble, which is then corrected at the end of the solve (is this correct?). This, I think, could be applied almost anywhere in the solve, but I've no idea where it's most commonly used.

*Corner cycles:* Using Heisse or Petrus, I often end up with corner cycles I can't handle. For instance, what do I do if I have them correctly permutated, but incorrectly oriented? I know how to solve that from BLD, but that sequence is like 20 moves long. Or if i have four corners left, of which one is correctly permutated but misoriented and the others are both misplaced and misoriented?

I think there are many cases which can be solved with 8-move cycles that I just don't see or know about. My knowledge about commutators is not good enough to be able to solve any three-corner cycle. Any suggestions for how to improve here?

*Insertions:* I realise that a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 cycle can be broken up in many ways, all of which might yield favourable insertions. Right now, my method is just to solve the cube to that state, put tape on the cycled stickers on the corners. Then I go through the solution and try to find positions where a corner cycle would coincide with other parts of the solution and thus cancel moves. Is this good?

I think my major problem here is that I don't know any algos for this and, as I said, my commutator understanding is not good enough. I actually checked for another insertion for the other cycle, but didn't find one!

---

Thanks for your feedback, it made me throw myself into this week's challenge with enthusiasm, rather than giving up, as I must admit I've been close to doing several times!

Olle Linge
http://www.snigel.nu


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## Kryptonite (Jul 16, 2010)

*Fascinated by FM*

Hey guys, I'm new to the cube community, and am fascinated by FM. I'm still getting the hang of it--my best so far is a 37. I've got a lot to learn, because I've never speed solved, the first method I learned was Human Thistlethwaite and I just figured out commutators about two weeks ago.

As I've been processing all the info in these threads, playing with a cube, and using cube explorer, I've figured out a few things that aren't explicitly said here that I figured might help out. I'm sure a lot of you guys already know this stuff, intuitively or otherwise, but it helped me to write it down, so I might as well share.

-----

Every 8f move corner 3-cycle is a commutator

3 of 8 cases for corner 3-cycles can be solved with an 8f move
1 of 5 cases where no corners are adjacent
3 of 5 cases where exactly two corners are adjacent
1 of 3 cases where one corner is adjacent to both others

By applying corner 3-cycles haphazardly, odds are 2 in 3 that you will end up with a corner twist.

I only just realized that YXY-1X-1 is the inverse of XYX-1Y-1. This previously cut my insertion opportunities in half.

As an example, we can cycle 3 corners with R'DR U R'DR U'
To cycle them the other direction we can do U R'DR U' R'DR
The selector move (the U face) is at the beginning instead of the end.

-----

I really liked blah's summary on 6-move edge 3-cycles:



blah said:


> All 6-move edge 3-cycles:
> 
> 1. S F2 S' F2
> 2. F2 S F2 S'
> ...



And I think it can be simplified to a single case. If we position the edge that must move the furthest on the FD and one edge on the UF then these three cases can be expressed as:

L R' (F2 R L' U2)

This allows for 6 cancelation optimizing scenarios:
Start L	End U2
Start R'	End U2
Start F2	End L
Start F2	End R'
Start L	End R'
Start R'	End L

-----

Hopefully, only a couple of these result in face-palms, and others are somewhat helpful.


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## Feryll (Jul 16, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, you show some real initiative  I can tell someone's been lurking. Anyone who would facepalm this post would have to be a jerk. You seem to know more about cube theory than a big portion of this community. You'll do just fine here  I recommend learning Petrus for the block building (for FMC) and either Roux (If you happen to fall in love with block building) or Fridrich (If you prefer better turning speed [Most speedsolvers use this; not sure if that should be considered a positive or a negative]). Hope your experience here helps your confidence in cubing and in life in general 


Spoiler



And the basic stuff everyone learns eventually, that I suspect you already know 

1. Use the search function at the top of the page before asking most things, you'll be amazed what has been thought of since 2006 here (Yeah I'm one to talk, I've only been here since last New Year's Eve)

2. Make heavy usage of the one question one answer thread

3. Make lots of jokes, and turn your sarcasm detector on to tell when someone is acting that way


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## blah (Jul 16, 2010)

For optimal solutions to any 3-cycle of corners, there are only
1. 6 unique 8-movers
2. 4 unique 9-movers
3. 2 unique 10-movers
4. one 11-mover
5. one 12-mover

By unique I mean mutually non-isomorphic. Any optimal solution you name will be isomorphic to one of these 14 cases.


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## Kryptonite (Jul 17, 2010)

Haha, lurking would be putting it nicely . I've been using Heise for block building so far, and I'll have to look into Petrus and Roux. How do the three compare for non-linear FM?

Nice break down of the corner 3-cycles blah, from what I can tell, it's gonna be rare that you run into a skeleton that can't get an 8f* insertion, am I right on that?

----

Also, I'm curious what strategies people have for edge 3-cycle insertions. It seems like there are an endless number of cases for these.

If we break down the three edge placements topologically (to avoid isomorphs) we get nine cases:

1. T - T - T
2. T - T - A
3. T - T - F
4. T - A - F
5. T - F - F
6. T - F - O
7. A - A - O
8. A - F - F
9. F - F - F

Where T = Touching (4 cases), two edges that are next to each other. A = Across, two edges on the same layer and opposite (2). F = Far, think of a chess knight's movement here, move to an opposite side, then move left or right (4). O = for opposite, as far as it can be from the other (1). So the three letters in combination describe their locations relative to each other.

(if anyone knows or has suggestions for better notation, or wants clarification, let me know)

Only the A - A - O case can be solved with a 6f*, but the odds of it randomly appearing are 2/55, and the odds it being oriented correctly are 1/4.

Only the T - A - F case can be solved with 8f*, and while it has a decent chance to manifest (12/55), we still run into the 1/4 orientation problem.

By the T - A - F case we have something like 30 possible ways to insert, it seems a bit daunting to look for the best insertion at every move in the skeleton.

So, is the strategy to avoid leaving an edge 3-cycle in the first place? Or does someone know a way to get real mileage out of edge insertions without gobbling up a bunch of time?


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## blah (Jul 17, 2010)

I've just listed the number of unique cases. It says nothing about the distribution. Distribution is here.


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## Stini (Jul 19, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Haha, lurking would be putting it nicely . I've been using Heise for block building so far, and I'll have to look into Petrus and Roux. How do the three compare for non-linear FM?
> 
> Nice break down of the corner 3-cycles blah, from what I can tell, it's gonna be rare that you run into a skeleton that can't get an 8f* insertion, am I right on that?



I have done quite a few insertions and my worst result is finding only an 8-move insertion (no cancellations) so it's indeed quite rare. My average is about 5-6 moves I guess. Also I don't recall having a solution that had no 8-movers in the skeleton. Also it's quite rare that a case of over 8 moves is the best place for insertion (meaning that if you have a 9-mover, but it happens to cancel more moves than the best 8-mover). I know all the optimal corner commutators, but for most people I'd just recommend to look for an insertion only if the case is a 8-mover. 



Kryptonite said:


> Also, I'm curious what strategies people have for edge 3-cycle insertions. It seems like there are an endless number of cases for these.
> 
> If we break down the three edge placements topologically (to avoid isomorphs) we get nine cases:
> 
> ...



That's interesting, I have to admit that I haven't thought much about edge insertions. I can solve them of course, but my reasoning is that the edge insertions usually involve slice turns, which count as two moves in official FMC rules, so the most intuitive commutators to me (supercube safe) are at least 10 moves. Also I personally find it easier to leave just a 3-cycle of corners than edges. Here are all the cases, but the primary goal of the list is to provide supercube safe commutators, so they are not always optimal for 3x3x3.

Usually if I have to make an edge insertion, I try to setup to M' U2 M U2 (or R' U2 R L' B2 L if you like) or use supercube safe commutators that happen to cancel some moves. Also R U R U R' U' R' U' R' U is useful.

I wasn't aware of T-A-F (with the correct orientation of course) being possible to be solved in 8-moves. This certainly makes it more appealing for me to use edge insertions more. For those unaware of this like me, here's the output of ACube for one case (should include all the optimal solutions in HTM):

B2 R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D' L2 (14q, 8f*, 8s)
B2 R2 D' R2 B2 L2 U' L2 (14q, 8f*, 8s)
L2 B2 R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D' (14q, 8f*, 8s)
L2 B2 R2 D' R2 B2 L2 U' (14q, 8f*, 8s)
R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D' L2 B2 (14q, 8f*, 8s)
R2 D' R2 B2 L2 U' L2 B2 (14q, 8f*, 8s)
R2 B2 L2 U' F2 L2 B2 D' (14q, 8f*, 8s)
R2 B2 L2 D' L2 B2 R2 U' (14q, 8f*, 8s)

I don't yet understand these completely, but to me it seems like these are pretty much variations of R2 U' F2 D' and R2 D' L2 U', which solve the 3-cycle ignoring other pieces.


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## boyscout (Jul 19, 2010)

I just remember to post. This is our new Indonesian NR by Juan Juli Andika Chandra. He just got that on Indonesian Championship 2010 last 2 weeks.

Nice solution with a very massive cancellation (more than 10 cancel)!!!
How lucky he is. Nevertheless, 29 moves is really deserve as a NR.



scramble for Indonesian Championship 2010
R U2 L' U2 L D' U2 B U F2 R D2 B' F R' D2 R2 D U2 R2 U2

2x2x2 block = D B D U2 B ( becomes premove for inverse scramble)

inverse scramble = U2 R2 U2 D' R2 D2 R F' B D2 R' F2 U' B' U2 D L' U2 L U2 R'

premove = B' U2 D' B' D'

2x2x2 + 1x2x2 (pseudo block) = L F' L' (Add F to premove so the pseudoblock becomes normal)

premove = F B' U2 D' B' D'

2X2X3 = L F' L' *F2* (3/3)
EO = *F* B' L F' B (5/8)
3rd F2L = D L D L (4/12)
leave 2 edge & 2 corner = F' *D F D F' D' F* (2/14)
setup = *F*
permute 2 edge & 2 corner = *F2 D F D' F' D* R F L' F L F R' F2 D2 (9/23)
undo setup = F B' U2 D' B' D'

L F' L' F' B' L F' B D L D L F' D2 R F L' F L F R' F2 D2 F B' U2 D' B' D' (29)
inverse all to get solution


solution = D B D U2 B F' D2 F2 R F' L' F' L F' R' D2 F L' D' L' D' B' F L' B F L F L' (29)


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## Kryptonite (Jul 22, 2010)

blah said:


> Distribution is here.



Awesome, that settles it. Odds are better than 50% that an 8f* is possible at any random scramble, meaning you'd have to be really unlucky not to find one. This had been my experience so far, and looks like that of Stini as well.



Stini said:


> I have done quite a few insertions and my worst result is finding only an 8-move insertion (no cancellations) so it's indeed quite rare.



Aside from the fact that skeleton assembly is not random, 16 moves makes for .0007% chance that a 8f* can't be found.

-----

Great break down of the 4-unique 9-movers aronpm, pictures are always nice .

The most interesting take-away I got from this is that all the 9-movers are conjugated 8f* moves. They are 9f* instead of 10f* because one of the conjugate moves combines for a cancelation. For example, we can look at the inverse Sune to see this.

R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2

The 8f commutator hiding here is: R U R' D2 R U' R' D2
The conjugate is: R' (Y) R
The R' and R at the beginning cancel for 9f*

This allows us to rule out looking for them when doing insertions. We could never get better cancelations, because would be essentially doing the same algorithm!

-----



Stini said:


> I have to admit that I haven't thought much about edge insertions. I can solve them of course, but my reasoning is that the edge insertions usually involve slice turns, which count as two moves in official FMC rules, so the most intuitive commutators to me (supercube safe) are at least 10 moves.



I haven't spent much time with big cubes, so I've never bothered to be supercube safe, and I think it's a luxury that can't be afforded in Fewest Moves--besides of course, just avoiding edge insertions, which is certainly valid.

The slice moves actually make edge insertions more appealing, as they are so versatile for cancelations (almost too much so!). The caveat, however, is that the moment you must use a conjugate to set up the edges, you lose a lot of that versatility.

blah originally posted the 8f* edge cycles, and it looks like you got them all for that case (there are three others, inverse, L/R mirror, and inverse L/R mirror). I broke down the 8 algorithms like this:

1. L2 B2 (R2 D' R2 B2 L2 U') (8f*)
2. L2 B2 (R2 U' B2 L2 F2 D') (8f*)
3. R2 B2 L2 D' L2 B2 R2 U' (8f*)
4. R2 B2 L2 U' F2 L2 B2 D' (8f*)

Two is an interesting set, because by moving L2 or B2 L2 to the back, the result is the same from doing so to set number one.

I feel like these four cases could be expressed in less patterns, but I haven't been able to find it myself.


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## Stini (Jul 22, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> The most interesting take-away I got from this is that all the 9-movers are conjugated 8f* moves. They are 9f* instead of 10f* because one of the conjugate moves combines for a cancelation. For example, we can look at the inverse Sune to see this.
> 
> R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2
> 
> ...



That is incorrect, you can only rule out conjugates that don't cancel any moves with the commutator. The cancellation becomes a double turn in this case, which makes the difference. You might for example have an insertion point for R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 and let's say that next moves in the skeleton would be R2 D2. You can't cancel those moves with other insertion.

But you are right that in general conjugated commutators can be ignored, for example there is a 10-move case (often called the orthogonal case), which is a conjugated 8-mover (U L' B R2 B' L B R2 B' U' is one example). This case can be ignored during insertion.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 22, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Awesome, that settles it. Odds are better than 50% that an 8f* is possible at any random scramble, meaning you'd have to be really unlucky not to find one. This had been my experience so far, and looks like that of Stini as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know I'm probably not as good as you guys at looking for insertions, but I've had a couple where I couldn't find an 8f* anywhere in the whole solution. It seems like if there is one, they exist all over the place - like every other move. But if there's not one, they're not to be found at all. So I suspect your "skeleton assembly is not random" factor is sufficiently important that .0007% is probably overly hopeful. But I'll admit I might be wrong.


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## Stini (Jul 22, 2010)

Mike Hughey said:


> Kryptonite said:
> 
> 
> > Awesome, that settles it. Odds are better than 50% that an 8f* is possible at any random scramble, meaning you'd have to be really unlucky not to find one. This had been my experience so far, and looks like that of Stini as well.
> ...



I have noticed that as well, and it kind of makes sense, because let's say your insertion at some point in the skeleton is Per's special (12f*), you will have an 11-move case at best in next and the previous step. It takes a while before you get from Per's special to an 8-move case and vice versa.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 22, 2010)

Stini said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > Kryptonite said:
> ...



Good point.


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## Kryptonite (Jul 22, 2010)

Stini said:


> you can only rule out conjugates that don't cancel any moves with the commutator. The cancellation becomes a double turn in this case, which makes the difference. You might for example have an insertion point for R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 and let's say that next moves in the skeleton would be R2 D2. You can't cancel those moves with other insertion.



Hmmm... this may be true in some instances, but I don't think so. If you look at the example you provided, we can break it down like this:

R2 <R U R' D2 R U' R' D2> R2 + R2 D2

Which, after cancelations, looks like:

R' U R' D2 R U' R'

However, since our conjugate is R2, it means that we could do the same 8f* after the skeleton's R2 instead, which looks like this:

R2 + R U R' D2 R U' R' D2 + D2

Which, after cancelations, is identical to the previous instance:

R' U R' D2 R U' R'

-----

This could be unique to the example you provided, and I'm not sure how to prove it for all cases. So while I'm not yet positive either way, my gut tells me 9f*s yield identical results.

Props on the skeleton example being R2 D2 btw, haha.


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## Stini (Jul 22, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Stini said:
> 
> 
> > you can only rule out conjugates that don't cancel any moves with the commutator. The cancellation becomes a double turn in this case, which makes the difference. You might for example have an insertion point for R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 and let's say that next moves in the skeleton would be R2 D2. You can't cancel those moves with other insertion.
> ...



I made a mistake by thinking that the conjugate was R' :fp, I didn't have a cube with me when writing my message so let that be my poor excuse. 

So the cancellation is in the beginning of the commutator instead, now let's consider that the previous moves in the skeleton were U' R and now we can make insertion R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2. Now doing the commutator a move earlier wouldn't make the same cancellations. Anyway my point is that you should still check for cancellations from that end of the commutator where there is a cancellation with the conjugate.


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## Kryptonite (Jul 23, 2010)

Stini said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > I suspect your "skeleton assembly is not random" factor is sufficiently important that .0007% is probably overly hopeful. But I'll admit I might be wrong.
> ...



Stini has hit the nail on the head here, and Mike is right that .0007% is overly hopeful. The key element is that going from one state to the next through the skeleton does not generate "independent" scenarios. The .0007% is simply a result that I could calculate. Getting the real likelihood is far beyond my abilities and could probably only be done with random sampling.

If people are really curious what the odds of a 8f* solution are, I could figure it out with enough solves--more than I could do on my own in a reasonable time.

If you are interested, PM me following data on your solves:
1. Length of the skeleton
2. Length of the final solve
3. Number of 8f*s possible within the skeleton
4. Number of 8f*s that cancel 1 move, Number of 8f*s that cancel 2, etc.
5. Your basic solve method (you can keep this basic)

Also you must:
1. Have only a single corner 3-cycle insertion (no 5s or edge cycles too)
2. Be 90% sure you have found all the 8f*s (no need for 100%, just be pretty confident)

That's it. If I get enough data I'll absolutely share everything I learn from it and credit everyone for each solve submitted.


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## Stini (Jul 23, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Stini said:
> 
> 
> > Mike Hughey said:
> ...



If I'm not mistaken, this could be considered to be a Markov chain so you could make a transition matrix and calculate the probabilities from there.


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## Kryptonite (Jul 23, 2010)

Stini said:


> ...now let's consider that the previous moves in the skeleton were U' R and now we can make insertion R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2. Now doing the commutator a move earlier wouldn't make the same cancellations.



Good example, you're definitely right on this one--it looks like I'll have to get those 9f*s down!



Stini said:


> If I'm not mistaken, this could be considered to be a Markov chain so you could make a transition matrix and calculate the probabilities from there.



Looks a bit daunting, though I may have to do that. I am curious though if different solving methods affect the odds of 8f*s appearing, which would be beyond a Markov chain--though it would be an excellent way to have a par for the course.

Sampling appeals to me mostly because I am more familiar with it.


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## Kryptonite (Jul 23, 2010)

Alright, I looked into setting up a Markov chain, but from what I can tell, it is incredible complex.

Instead I've done a quick and dirty analysis. I ran five random scrambles and solved them optimally using Cube Explorer. I picked three corners at random, then ran through all five scrambles continually for 90 total moves. At each move I looked to see if I could find a 8f* cycle, and counted how many I found.

I averaged 45% (+/-10% based on sample size) from this, the caveats being:
1. Humans, of course, don't solve optimally
2. I may have found moves that are identical after cancelations, though I honestly wasn't sure if they should or shouldn't be counted

One interesting place where human solutions differ from optimal solutions is the likelihood of half turns. In optimal solutions half turns occur about 30% of the time (sampled from 40 solutions). Human FM solutions tend to have about 25% (sampled from 50 solutions).


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## blah (Jul 25, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> At each move I looked to see if I could find a 8f* cycle, and counted how many I found.



I may be wrong, but I still think you don't quite know how commutators work :/


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## Stini (Jul 25, 2010)

blah said:


> Kryptonite said:
> 
> 
> > At each move I looked to see if I could find a 8f* cycle, and counted how many I found.
> ...



Weird, to me it seems like he understands them well enough.


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## Kryptonite (Jul 25, 2010)

blah said:


> Kryptonite said:
> 
> 
> > At each move I looked to see if I could find a 8f* cycle, and counted how many I found.
> ...



Hmm, while I certainly wouldn't claim to be a master, I think I grasp them firmly enough for this application (thanks for the vote of confidence Stini ).

If I have made errors though, I'm absolutely on board to track them down--just an opportunity to learn more about the cube! If you let me know what you think I'm missing in my last post, I'm more than happy to update my results or clarify them.


----------



## sz35 (Aug 4, 2010)

Hi guys! 
I'm pretty new to FMC, and I have question: What's NISS?


----------



## guusrs (Aug 4, 2010)

sz35 said:


> Hi guys!
> I'm pretty new to FMC, and I have question: What's NISS?



Hi Shai,

Welcome to this thread.
For understanding NISS a little bit have a look at this:



guusrs said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> For advanced FMC users here is a nice example of my NISS-method for FMC (Normal-Inverse-Scramble-Switch):
> Scramble: (fmc.mustcube.net #265) F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2 R L' F2 U' F' L
> ...



and this:



Mike Hughey said:


> Generally, you use premoves to modify a scramble so you can solve it more easily. The most common approach for this is to solve a "pseudo-block" of some sort, where for instance you might put in a corner-edge pair of the wrong color into a 2x2x2 or 2x2x3 block. Then you find the moves necessary to put that corner-edge pair (or whatever) into it's proper location in the solved cube. If you then apply those moves to the solved cube prior to applying the scramble, you'll find that the pseudo-block becomes an actual block. Then you can add those moves to the end of your final solution and it will be solved.
> 
> Guus's solution you mention is using "NISS" - his "normal-inverse-scramble-switch" method, where you solve part of the cube with the normal scramble, then when you get stuck, you switch to the inverse scramble and use it, then when you get stuck again, you switch back to the normal scramble, and so on. I love NISS - it's really fun to do! Anyway, when you switch from normal to inverse scrambles, the moves you used at the beginning of the normal scramble solve become premoves to the inverse scramble (and vice-versa). It takes trying it to see how it really works, and it's really quite ingenious.
> 
> The best way to understand these is to look at some of the solves that others have done (like the ones in the weekly competitions) and understand how they work. Examples are much more useful than descriptions - this isn't a particularly good description, but maybe it gives you an idea of what's going on.



Both from this thread

Gus


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## sz35 (Aug 4, 2010)

guusrs said:


> sz35 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys!
> ...


Thanks Gus/
I knew about switching to inverse scramble I just didn't know it is called NISS


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## Kryptonite (Aug 4, 2010)

Hey, while we're on the subject, how do you know when NISS will yield good results? I have a decent grasp on how to do it/why we can do it, but when I've done it in my solves it seems like the cube case at the switch is quite similar to the case we switched from. Any general guidelines for when to try a switch?


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## guusrs (Aug 4, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Hey, while we're on the subject, how do you know when NISS will yield good results? I have a decent grasp on how to do it/why we can do it, but when I've done it in my solves it seems like the cube case at the switch is quite similar to the case we switched from. Any general guidelines for when to try a switch?



It doesn't work al the time, but sometimes it does, so it is worth a try, especially when you're stuck on a good start.

Gus


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## Stini (Aug 4, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Hey, while we're on the subject, how do you know when NISS will yield good results? I have a decent grasp on how to do it/why we can do it, but when I've done it in my solves it seems like the cube case at the switch is quite similar to the case we switched from. Any general guidelines for when to try a switch?



As far as I know, there's really no guarantee that NISS will help you, so I find that you should avoid overusing it. I usually try NISS only when I get stuck, since it's a bit time consuming. In general I prefer using the normal scramble for practical reasons, since you don't have to invert your solution in the end and I also find it more elegant that the actual solution is understandable without any tricks like inverse scramble or NISS.
There are some cubers though, who seem to use NISS all the time, so their opinion is probably different than mine.

That being said, you can actually see quite a bit about the resulting position beforehand, but explaining it is rather difficult, and it's probably faster and easier to just do NISS instead of trying to figure out the pre-moves without using the inverse scramble. For example I look often for "pseudo pairs", which are something that would become an actual pair with a single pre-move. Recognizing pseudo pairs is easier than it sounds, but you could also check the inverse scramble and notice that there is a separated pair (a pair that you can connect with a single move). So if you see a pseudo pair, you know that there is a separated pair if you switch to the inverse scramble. For me it's just faster to notice pseudo pairs than to switch to the inverse scramble, but obviously this way you can only make the normal scramble easier - you don't actually try if the inverse scramble is easier than the normal scramble (you pretty much just switch to the inverse scramble for one move and then switch back, of course this could be generalized for several moves, but it's quite complicated).


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## Kryptonite (Aug 4, 2010)

guusrs said:


> It doesn't work al the time, but sometimes it does, so it is worth a try, especially when you're stuck on a good start.





Stini said:


> As far as I know, there's really no guarantee that NISS will help you, so I find that you should avoid overusing it.



Very cool, sounds like I wasn't missing anything on NISS then.



Stini said:


> In general I prefer using the normal scramble for practical reasons, since you don't have to invert your solution in the end and I also find it more elegant that the actual solution is understandable without any tricks like inverse scramble or NISS.



Got to admit, I love solutions that are completely incomprehensible in their final form--the uninitiated can only assume that you're a genius, haha.



Stini said:


> I look often for "pseudo pairs", which are something that would become an actual pair with a single pre-move.



Clever, I'll have to try this. I'll often take some time to predict how a pre-move to fix pseudo-block will affect the cube state to see if it's worth the time or whether I should explore more options, so it sounds like looking for pseudo pairs is taking this one step further.


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## Cride5 (Aug 5, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Hey, while we're on the subject, how do you know when NISS will yield good results?



With my blockbuilding style, I tend to concentrate on smaller sub-goals of building 1x2x2's and pairs, rather than the traditional 2x2x2 -> 2x2x3 -> F2L-1 approach. I then then tie them together (using pseudo blocks if needs be), while also concentrating on EO. Following that approach it's quite common to end up with blocks tangled in such a way that they are difficult to put together. Switching to the inverse will give exactly the same blocks, but arranged around the cube in a completely different way ... and if you're lucky they will be much easier to put together. This 21-mover from the weekly comp is a good example of this strategy: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=412605&postcount=28

... so my short answer to your question would be: When you have some nice blocks but no easy way to put them together.


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## CharlesOBlack (Aug 6, 2010)

hi guys.

I've recently gone back to FMC, and I suck at it. [my solves are usually 45 moves or so.] So I did one just now and wanted to post it, since it's only 37 moves with cancellation ^_^

Scramble: U D R' U2 B2 F R' L2 U L B2 F2 L U' L B' L2 U' R2 L2 F R U' R2 B2 F' D B F' L

B U' R2 (3/3) [2x2x2]

R' U' R F' L' F U2 (7/10) [2x2x3]
U' L U x' z (3/13) [EO]
U R2 U' R' U R2 (6/19) [F2L]

R' U' R U' R' U2 R y' (7/26)

R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' (14/40) [40 - 3 = 37 moves]

I guess I got lucky. Solved with Petrus and T-Perm only.


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## Kryptonite (Aug 6, 2010)

CharlesOBlack said:


> hi guys.
> 
> I've recently gone back to FMC, and I suck at it. [my solves are usually 45 moves or so.] So I did one just now and wanted to post it, since it's only 37 moves with cancellation ^_^
> 
> ...


I'm pretty new as well, and looking back on my progress, I think I can offer a few tips.

You have a really good start here; it's after where you should be looking to shave a couple moves off. Also, you don't end up with any pairs after your EO. So by adding a single move for a different and suboptimal EO, you might end up with a more favorable case.

Looking back at my solutions, this is pretty much on par with my better solutions before I started using more advanced FM techniques. So from here I recommend you learn how to use a keyhole, insertions, pre-moves, and NISS--probably in that order.

While there's a lot to go through, nearly everything you need to know is in this thread and this one: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1566 If you can't find anything here, it's somewhere on the net.

The last thing I recommend is to not put cube rotations in your notation--it's easier to catch cancelations and it's simpler for sharing them.

Good luck learning the techniques! I'd recommend taking them on one at a time.


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## Sebastien (Aug 6, 2010)

My Solution from Austrian Open 2010

Scramble: L' D' R L2 U' L2 F' L F' R F' L D' F2 U2 R2 B U2

Inverse Scramble: U2 B' R2 U2 F2 D L' F R' F L' F L2 U L2 R' D L

Double X-Cross: x2 B' R2 . B' U L F U F2 B2
Cube-corner-3-cycle: B R B' R2 B R2 B' D R2 D' F' R F (1 move cancellation)

. = R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2 U' ( 2 moves cancellation)

Inverse Solution: x2 B' U L2 U' R2 U L2 U' B' U L F U F2 B' R B' R2 B R2 B' D R2 D' F' R F
Solution: x2 F' R' F D R2 D' B R2 B' R2 B R' B F2 U' F' L' U' B U L2 U' R2 U L2 U' B

27 moves 

After the competition I also found a nice start based on my girlfriends beginning:

Premove: B2

F2L: R U2 R D2 U' B2 R' U' B' U B2 U' B'

13/14 Move F2L!

But the best I found with this was:

Cube minus 3cycle: B L U L' U B' U' B U' B' U (2 moves cancellation)


Comments and suggestions are welcome


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## Stini (Aug 6, 2010)

CharlesOBlack said:


> hi guys.
> 
> I've recently gone back to FMC, and I suck at it. [my solves are usually 45 moves or so.] So I did one just now and wanted to post it, since it's only 37 moves with cancellation ^_^
> 
> ...



This T-perm is quite useful to know: R2 u R2 u' R2 y' R2 u' R2 u R2
It's just a fairly known F2L-trick done twice (from different angles). It also works for Domino. Nice solve nevertheless.


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## CharlesOBlack (Aug 7, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> I'm pretty new as well, and looking back on my progress, I think I can offer a few tips.
> 
> You have a really good start here; it's after where you should be looking to shave a couple moves off. Also, you don't end up with any pairs after your EO. So by adding a single move for a different and suboptimal EO, you might end up with a more favorable case.
> 
> ...



I know how to use insertions, keyhole and pre-moves. I just didn't use them on that solve 
Yeah, I know about the cube rotations. I catch cancellations, so I don't really care, but I might change (even though it's hard...) for the sake of sharing them. 



Stini said:


> This T-perm is quite useful to know: R2 u R2 u' R2 y' R2 u' R2 u R2
> It's just a fairly known F2L-trick done twice (from different angles). It also works for Domino. Nice solve nevertheless.



:O...... that is such an easy t-perm, and it's soooo short. That would've made my solve sub-35. XD I'll learn this one by heart for sure.


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## Kryptonite (Aug 7, 2010)

CharlesOBlack said:


> I know how to use insertions, keyhole and pre-moves. I just didn't use them on that solve



Haha, my bad. What is it they say about making assumptions...


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## CharlesOBlack (Aug 7, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> CharlesOBlack said:
> 
> 
> > I know how to use insertions, keyhole and pre-moves. I just didn't use them on that solve
> ...



No problem.

I still have some trouble with inverses, though. Mind if I ask a few questions?

I have the following scramble:

A B C'

I solve the inverse of the scramble (C B' A') with D E' F.

Thus, the solve for the original scramble is...? I tried both D E' F and F' E D', but they don't seem to work. Help me?


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## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Aug 7, 2010)

It should be F' E D', the inverse of the C B' A' solution


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## eastamazonantidote (Aug 7, 2010)

To continue the question: what about premoves on inverse solutions?


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## irontwig (Aug 7, 2010)

eastamazonantidote said:


> To continue the question: what about premoves on inverse solutions?



Pre-moves only exist when you're solving. When you're done you just undo them and get a normal albeit funky-looking solution. And then you just invert your solution (or as I like to call it generator).


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## SpUtnikCub3r (Aug 7, 2010)

oh.... 
I was expecting FMC - F my cube


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Aug 7, 2010)

4x4FMC: 92

Scramble (SiGN notation): f B F2 r' f D' u r U2 D B' f r U' L' D U2 L' u' R' L' B2 f2 F2 u U' D' r' B F' f' U2 R' L' f r2 U' f' u' R2

Solution: (SiGN notation): 
F l' F l2 F l b R' b'
R L u' L' u L2 u2
B' d2 F2 B d B' d2 L'

R' D' R2 D2 R' u'
B' L B D' L2 D r
F' R2 F D L D' B' R2 B r'
U B u L U' L' u'

L' y2 x'

U2 R' U2 D R' U2 R U D' R2 U R' U' R' U2 L' U2 B' U2 B U2 L U2 F R' F2 R U' R' U F L2 B R2 U' L2 B2


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## Kryptonite (Aug 7, 2010)

eastamazonantidote said:


> To continue the question: what about premoves on inverse solutions?



Here's a more detailed example:

Say you have the scramble A B C' again. You find the solution of simply F when you apply the pre-moves D E' on inverse. We can write that in the following way.

D E' + C' B A + F

We move the pre-moves to the front

C' B A + F D E'

And invert the whole move set

E D' F' + A' B' C

And there's you're answer, your end solution is: E D' F

----

For anyone wondering why the scramble doesn't come first, here is why it doesn't matter/why we can do pre-moves.

If you think of the "Scramble + Solution" as a long single algorithm, it is essentially a null transformation. We start with a solved cube, then move back to it. We could technically apply it to any cube state. If we do the whole algorithm, we will return to our initial state.

The interesting thing about a null transformation is that, as long as we perform the whole transform, we can start with any of the moves. So our final example of the solution + scramble was:

E D' F + A B C'

If we want we can start with the A, we simply continue through the set of moves until we are back, giving:

A B C' + E D' F

This is the same reasoning behind moving the pre-moves at the beginning.

D E' + C B' A' + F

in entirety is again a null transformation, so we are going to change our starting point to C, and wrap back around.


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## Kryptonite (Aug 7, 2010)

Here's another thing that I thought was really cool that builds off the logic of my previous post.

What if I asked you to find a solution that moved from one scramble to another, rather than the solved state? There's no reason we couldn't solve it with normal methods, it would just take a lot of brain power to put the pieces in the right spot.

Lets say we want to move from the state resulting from Scramble S1 to the state resulting from Scramble S2. One clever solution would be to solve both S1 and S2 individually, then put the solutions together.

S1 + U' V W

S2 + R' S T'

We can invert the S2 solution and attach it to the S1 solution.

S1 + U' V W + T' S R' + S2'

You can see that this solution begins at the Scramble 1 state (since it begins after S1) and ends with the Scramble 2 state (because to return to the solved case, we must apply it's inverse.)

However, this isn't very efficient, because it requires two solves. There is a way to do a single solution where we solve towards a solved state. We just have to move things around.

S1 + (Solution) + S2'

is another null transformation, so we can move things around, such as:

S2' S1 + D' E F'

Where D' E F' is the solution. S2' S1 essentially becomes a long scramble. This allows us to move directly from any two cube states with a single normal solve, which I thought was kinda neat.


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## Ranzha (Aug 7, 2010)

Oh my god.

Scramble: B' D2 F2 B2 U2 B' U' F2 D F L2 D B' D' L2 B' F2 D B F' D2 U L B' L

Okay. CRAZY.

F2L:
(x') U L2' (x' y) M' U2 M' U2 M2 U2 (x) U R2' U' B' l. [13/13]
COLL:
L' U2 L U' R' U L' U' R2 U' L U R'. [13/26]
EPLL:
(y') F2 U M' U2 M U F2. [7/33]

Zomg.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 7, 2010)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> Oh my god.
> 
> Scramble: B' D2 F2 B2 U2 B' U' F2 D F L2 D B' D' L2 B' F2 D B F' D2 U L B' L
> 
> ...


M moves count as two moves. HTM is used for FM. So that's 38.


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## Ranzha (Aug 7, 2010)

hawkmp4 said:


> Ranzha V. Emodrach said:
> 
> 
> > Oh my god.
> ...



Ranzha = STM. I believe I've discussed this before. Kthxbai.

EDIT: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=397792&postcount=166


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 7, 2010)

What Ranzha likes =/= official, or even the generally accepted norm
And I really don't care if you posted about it once, two months ago, in an unrelated thread. I don't care if you've posted about it a million times.


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## riffz (Aug 7, 2010)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> hawkmp4 said:
> 
> 
> > Ranzha V. Emodrach said:
> ...



You can't be serious?


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## qqwref (Aug 8, 2010)

US Nationals 2010, FMC #2

Scramble: U' L2 D F U2 F2 D' F' D' F2 D B2 D' B' U2 F' R U' (18f)

2x2x2 block: U B2 R2 B L2 (5)
Invert with premoves L2 B' R2 B2 U'.
Block extension: B' U' R' B' R2 (10)
Use premoves R2 B R U B, and start with U B2 R2 B L2.
Finish except for three corners: B U' B' L' B L B' R B R' L U R' . U' L' R (25)
Insert at the period: R' U L U' R U L' U' (31)

Solution: U B2 R2 B L2 B U' B' L' B L B' R B R' L U R2 U L U' R U L' U2 L' R' B R U B (31f)


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## irontwig (Aug 8, 2010)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> Ranzha = STM. I believe I've discussed this before. Kthxbai.



Ranzha = Tony Snyder. Kthxbai.


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## Kryptonite (Aug 9, 2010)

riffz said:


> Ranzha V. Emodrach said:
> 
> 
> > hawkmp4 said:
> ...



Ignoring the bizarreness of someone claiming the rules don't apply to him or her, it did get me thinking about some of the differences in the different metrics.

This has been discussed in other places, but I took a bit of a different approach. I optimally solved 120 random cubes, forty QTM, forty HTM, and forty STM. I would have done more, but my computer is only so fast, and the STM is especially hard on the processor. 120 cubes did, however, turn out to be enough data for statistical significance.

I then compared all the solutions in each metric. All the data has to be taken with a grain of salt, because we don't solve optimally, but hey, that the ultimate goal in FM, right? Haha.

When optimizing for QTM, as we would expect, we have _a lot_ less half and slice turns, at only 5.5% and 3% respectively.

When optimizing for HTM, we have the same number of slice turns, but half turns jump to over 30%.

When optimizing for STM, we get the same number of half turns, and slice turns jump to around 10%.

Move counts are pretty much exactly what we would expect. You can't compare back and forth, because the goal was different, and these results are significant. The one exception is that when solutions optimized for HTM and STM are compared in the STM, they are statistically the same, the results are as follows:

Optimized for HTM, counted in STM: 17.25 +/- .26
Optimized for STM, counted in STM: 17.00 +/- .21

So, there may be some merit to comparing solutions of people competing in the different metrics if they are compared in STM. To know if this were doable we would have to compare human solutions in HTM and STM. But, since STM is not generally accepted, there is not much data to sample human solutions from.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't have the time right now to type a full response- I will later. But how did you solve cubes optimally for QTM and STM? ACube?


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## Ranzha (Aug 9, 2010)

The main reason why I like STM over HTM is that I think STM provides more useful cancellations and would, overall, leave no move-count restrictions (except the archaic R L move, being counted as one; and R r, as such. I've seen it done with some freaky notation at one time or another).

Take this as an example:






This was scrambled with M' D' M' D' M' D' M' D'.

The optimal solution for this is the inverse of the scramble.
In STM, D M D M D M D M. 8 moves.
In HTM, R' L B' R' L U' R' L F' R' L D'. 12 moves.

I do understand that optimally for 120 random cubes, there's no significant difference. However, because of the insignificant difference, why hasn't STM been implemented?


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## Kryptonite (Aug 9, 2010)

hawkmp4 said:


> I don't have the time right now to type a full response- I will later. But how did you solve cubes optimally for QTM and STM? ACube?



Looking forward to it; I used Cube Explorer to tackle STM (there's a Use Slice Turns option) and I used a command-line adapted version of Cube Explorer to handle QTM--it's available in the download section of the Cube Explorer site. It's especially cool because it can find _all_ optimal solutions, which maybe other programs do, but I haven't seen.



Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> The main reason why I like STM over HTM is that I think STM provides more useful cancellations and would, overall, leave no move-count restrictions (except the archaic R L move, being counted as one; and R r, as such. I've seen it done with some freaky notation at one time or another).
> 
> Take this as an example:
> 
> ...



I'm not convinced that the insignificant difference would carry over to human solutions, just that the data justifies inquiry. We don't know how different human solutions are from optimal solutions in execution, but we do know they are. Earlier in this thread I shared that I had found that there is a significant difference in the number of half turns present.

I think we can all agree that STM has merit. It feels like one move, it's easier to understand commutators like the basic 6f* edge 3-cycle, otherwise certain solving methods must be avoided, and due to randomness we should expect about 9% slice turns in optimal solutions (which we see in STM, not in HTM).

However, if I had to pick, I would stay with HTM for the following reasons: In the search for god's algorithm upper and lower bounds HTM has been the standard for a long time, and I feel fewest moves should be the same. Slice turns definitely _feel_ more "powerful" as single turn. And the kicker, STM is not better enough to justify a change.


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## bamilan (Aug 9, 2010)

Could you please describe the way you solved the 3x3 part?


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## bamilan (Aug 9, 2010)

trying-to-speedcube... said:


> 4x4FMC: 92
> 
> Scramble (SiGN notation): f B F2 r' f D' u r U2 D B' f r U' L' D U2 L' u' R' L' B2 f2 F2 u U' D' r' B F' f' U2 R' L' f r2 U' f' u' R2
> 
> ...



I meant this solve


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## puzzlemaster (Aug 9, 2010)

US Nationals Round 2 Scramble: 
B2 D' U B2 R2 D2 R F2 D' L2 D2 F L' U R2 B2 L' D2 U'

2x2x2 block: R' B R2 D L U'
2x2x3 Block: D2 F U F U'
Bad Edges: L' F L

Now the luck begins...

x2 y U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U' R2 U2

8 move corner commutator: x2 D2 R U R' D' R U' R' D'

Messed up cancellations nats...should've been 30 moves...instead i screwed it up and got 33...

Oh well.


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## irontwig (Aug 9, 2010)

bamilan: It's a inverse solve. This will make more sense:
B2 L2 U R2 B' L2 F' U' R U R' F2 R F' U2 L' U2 B' U2 B U2 L U2 R U R U' R2 D U' R' U2 R D' U2 R U2


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Aug 9, 2010)

bamilan said:


> trying-to-speedcube... said:
> 
> 
> > 4x4FMC: 92
> ...



It was a NISS-ish approach. Scramble + reduction didn't leave a good 3x3 part, so I used the inverse of the reduction as a premove on the inverse scramble, and then put the inverse of the 3x3 solution on that at the end of my normal solution.

NISS-confuzzlement ftw.


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## Johannes91 (Aug 9, 2010)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> The main reason why I like STM over HTM is that I think STM provides more useful cancellations and would, overall, leave no move-count restrictions (except the archaic R L move, being counted as one; and R r, as such. I've seen it done with some freaky notation at one time or another).


Why not take it a step further and count all 2-gen sequences, such as Sune, as one move? That'd provide even more cancellations and leave even less "move-count restrictions".


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## Kryptonite (Aug 9, 2010)

Johannes91 said:


> Ranzha V. Emodrach said:
> 
> 
> > The main reason why I like STM over HTM is that I think STM provides more useful cancellations and would, overall, leave no move-count restrictions (except the archaic R L move, being counted as one; and R r, as such. I've seen it done with some freaky notation at one time or another).
> ...



Haha, Hell, by KTM (Kryptonite Turn Metric), I often solve the cube in a single move.


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## blah (Aug 9, 2010)

US Nationals FMC #2.

(Premoves) Inverse scramble: (L' U2) U R' F U2 B D B2 D' F2 D F D F2 U2 F' D' L2 U

2x2x3: R2 B U' B' L2 B R U (8/8)
Triple x-cross: L' U' F' U (4/12)
Edges: F' D F' . D' F' (5/17)
Undo premoves: L' U2 (2/19)
Insertion #1 at .: F2 D B D' .. F2 D B' D' (5/24)
Insertion #2 at ..: D F' U' F D' F' U F (6/30)


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## Kryptonite (Aug 9, 2010)

cmowla said:


> Perhaps the best solution that we can have now for the FMC is have FMC for different move counts. One for QTM, HTM, and STM. That way, people can use everything in them to solve a cube and not have unnecessary worries about whether one move to them is two moves to another, and vice versa. Is it really that hard to count a solution in three different metrics? Why only use one metric?



You have a lot of excellent points in this post. All NxNxN cubes are fundamentally connected, yet we can't seem to unify them under a single metric, or even for just the 3x3x3 cube.

I think when it comes down to it, we do have to decide on one. In a lot of ways we should just be able to go, hey, check out my 33 STM solve! And everyone is cool with that. And while cubing has been incredibly collaborative, there's a lot of fun to its competitive roots. And when it comes down to it, QTM, HTM, and STM don't compete easily.

If we really want to develop a way to interchange them, I would propose something like this:

After completing your solution, we solve the cube optimally in each metric. Take the optimal move counts in each metric and divide the corresponding human solution move count, multiply by say 1000 to get your "points." This number is essentially the efficiency of your solve, and the higher points the better. 1000 of course being that you solved the cube optimally. Since this _should_ eliminate metric-bias, take your highest score.

For example, my FMC 305 result (classic) was ( 29/[35]/{28}/{[34]}). Once we have the optimal moves count for each turn metric, we would do this:

QTM = 19 / 35 = 543
HTM = 18 / 29 = 621
STM = 17 / 28 = 607

My score for this solve would be 621, as it's the closest to optimal by any given turn metric.

I'm not suggesting we do this, I'm simply saying that we would need a system of this complexity to accurately compare varying metrics, and who knows if this would/wouldn't give an advantage to a given metric anyway.

EDIT: Supplied correct optimal move counts for the scramble instead of guesses. Here is the multi-optimal solution: F' D F' L U' B L' B' F' R D2 U' F {R L'} D' F' U (19q*, 18f*, 17s*)


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## Kryptonite (Aug 9, 2010)

cmowla said:


> I like that idea a lot (even though you said that it doesn't necessarily need to be implemented). It kind of reminds me of the SAT/ACT college entrance exams. I think it should be. Maybe in the future others will agree as well.



Haha, we better add in the 200 points for signing your name then! Maybe I'll play around with it some.


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## qqwref (Aug 9, 2010)

cmowla said:


> Perhaps the best solution that we can have now for the FMC is have FMC for different move counts. One for QTM, HTM, and STM. That way, people can use everything in them to solve a cube and not have unnecessary worries about whether one move to them is two moves to another, and vice versa. Is it really that hard to count a solution in three different metrics? Why only use one metric? I bet this will make FMC much more popular too.
> [...]
> I applaud all of you who are experts at HTM fewest moves. But, in all honesty, why can't those who are strong in STM (or QTM) also enjoy a satisfaction that they deserve as well.


There is no time in a competition to do three types of FMC events. One hour is already a big deal for the organizers, especially at one-day competitions (well, it's usually not even held at those!). You can't hold all 3 at once because then the best people will only be able to do one and thus winning STM or QTM will depend pretty much entirely on not having anyone better choose to do that event. In an unofficial setting you can use any metric, even axial turn metric if you wish, but for official solving it is absolutely necessary to standardize, and HTM is both traditional and logical (not that STM isn't logical, but I don't think QTM is to a non-theorist).


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## TMOY (Aug 10, 2010)

It is perfectly possible to do 2 or even 3 FMC attempts in the same competition, it has already been done for example in several French competitions (Lyon 2009 and 2010, Clermont 2009, Montpellier 2010). Instead of two HTM attempts you could as well hold one HTM event and one STM event.


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## Yes We Can! (Aug 10, 2010)

Scramble:
L D2 R F' B2 D' F' B D' U2 R2 F D' L D' R D2 U2 B2 F' U F2 U B' D'

Solution:
D' L' R' F' U L' (X-Cross)
x2 F' U' F U R U' R' y (Flip edge for following commutator + pairing 2nd pair)
x2 r U R' U' r' F R F' (commutator to solve BR pair)
x2 F' U F U' B' U B U2 L U L' (last 2 pairs)
y' L' U' L U B L F' L' F B' (forced PLL skip by using mirrored OLL).

= 42 moves.

Wow, I suck. I also found another PLL skip solution on this, also 42 moves >_>.
I think everything of this was bad, except for the X-Cross, which was very good I think.


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## okayama (Aug 10, 2010)

A friend of mine got an easy scramble. His time was 7.92.
Scramble: B2 F2 L' R2 D' L2 F D U' B F' D2 U B2 F2 D R2 B U2 B D' B R2 D U'

I decided to solve this scramble for FMC, with a Fridrich-like method.

Solution: z2 F' D U R B' R2 U2 F U B U F' B' R B U' L' U R' L2 U' R' U L' U' R U2 (27 HTM)

Cross: z2 F' D R'
1st slot: R U R B' R2
2nd slot: U2 F U B
More pair: U F'
3rd slot: B' R B R'
4th slot: R U' L' U L R'
COLL: L U' R' U L' U' R
AUF: U2

I didn't try to search a corner 3-cycle insertion. Almost linear solve!


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## sz35 (Aug 10, 2010)

This is the solve from this week's weekly comp. I would like you guys help me improve the ending.
*38 HTM* 
Sramble: B2 L' R F' U F' L' R2 U B2 R2 B' R2 U' L2 U2 L2
Solution: L' B L' F D R' F L' B L B' R' U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' R2 D R D' R' D B D B2 D L' F L2 F' D


Spoiler



2*2x2x2: L' B L' F D R' F L' B L B'
Switch to Inverse with premoves: B L' B' L F' R D' F' L B' L (11)
Leave 4 corners: D' F L2 F' L D' B2 D' B' D' R D R' D' (14)
Solve 4 corners: R2 U R U' R' U R U' R' U R U' R (13)


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## Cride5 (Aug 10, 2010)

I decided to try the 'hardest' scramble on cube20.org

The scramble is: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

After seeing no 1-move blocks on both regular and inverse scramble I decided to go for a ZZ-based start, and managed this 35-mover (not great):



Spoiler



EO: F R L B' U' D' F (7)
Line+Pair: U' R' U' (3/10)
RH Side: D2 R2 L D2 * R (5/15)
F2L-1 + 1x2x2: D' L D L' D2 (5/20)
3-corners: L2 D L' D' L D L' D' L (9/29)
Insert at *: B' L' B R B' L B R' (8/37)
2 moves cancel:



I also found this mediocre blockbuilding start, but no good finish:


Spoiler



2 pairs: L' B2 (2)
2 1x2x2's + pair: F R L B U2 B2 (6/8)
F2L-1, no EO: D B' R B U D' F D R' U2 (10/18)



What do you guys think of the scramble? Hard for a human as well as a computer?


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## Kryptonite (Aug 11, 2010)

Hey guys, I just put together the last four FMC results using the idea I had for comparing solve efficiency, which would hopefully let people work in any give metric.

As a quick disclaimer, I am not doing this to promote some random idea I had. I am simply pursuing an avenue of curiosity and figured it was worth sharing. I am by no means convinced that this kind of hybrid system is better than just sticking with HTM.

Here's the break down of optimal solve length done in each metric (sorted QTM, HTM, STM):

305: 19, 18, 17
304: 20, 18, 17
303: 20, 18, 18
302: 22, 17, 16

Here's the conversion. C is for Classic, O is for Official. I put the score, and which metric it came from. A big thing we are looking for is that there aren't any big upsets, since everyone was using the same metric. The "^" show anyone who went up a position. All the "^" boil down tie-breakers (same result in HTM, but one person had a more efficient solve in another metric) except for one. In the Official FMC 302, Всемирный jumps Tomoaki despite a 30 v. 29 HTM, because his QTM is 36. Comparing efficiencies, 36 QTM is more efficient than 29 HTM.







Could this satisfy STMers without making HTM obsolete? Not sure either way yet, but it's interesting to see it in action.


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## iasimp1997 (Aug 11, 2010)

I keep misreading this to be the "FMJ thread".


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## Ranzha (Aug 11, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Hey guys, I just put together the last four FMC results using the idea I had for comparing solve efficiency, which would hopefully let people work in any give metric.
> 
> As a quick disclaimer, I am not doing this to promote some random idea I had. I am simply pursuing an avenue of curiosity and figured it was worth sharing. I am by no means convinced that this kind of hybrid system is better than just sticking with HTM.
> 
> ...



This pleases me.
HTM isn't obsolete--I just find that cancelling those (R L')s and such are more desirable. Additionally, one can then go without the general ruling out of slice moves, which I always have to whenever I try using HTM.


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## qqwref (Aug 11, 2010)

I see a problem with this approach: since a solver wouldn't know what the optimal solution is in HTM and QTM, they couldn't tell whether it was worthwhile to optimize for QTM or not. Some scrambles (like 305) would have only a 1 (or 0) move difference between HTM and QTM, and thus you can gain no benefit from optimizing specifically for QTM (your HTM score will almost certainly be better). However, some scrambles (like 302) would have a 5 (or higher!?) move difference, and thus optimizing for HTM is useless because a good QTM solve will rank much better. So, while your idea sounds good, in practice the optimal numbers are impossible to determine or even guess from the scramble, so it is basically luck that determines which one of two similar solutions will get ranked better.


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## Kryptonite (Aug 11, 2010)

qqwref said:


> I see a problem with this approach: since a solver wouldn't know what the optimal solution is in HTM and QTM, they couldn't tell whether it was worthwhile to optimize for QTM or not. Some scrambles (like 305) would have only a 1 (or 0) move difference between HTM and QTM, and thus you can gain no benefit from optimizing specifically for QTM (your HTM score will almost certainly be better). However, some scrambles (like 302) would have a 5 (or higher!?) move difference, and thus optimizing for HTM is useless because a good QTM solve will rank much better. So, while your idea sounds good, in practice the optimal numbers are impossible to determine or even guess from the scramble, so it is basically luck that determines which one of two similar solutions will get ranked better.



Excellent point, and something I've given some thought to. I see two solutions, neither perfect. First, we let the solvers know the optimal move counts per metric ahead of time. The judges would have to know eventually, so why not let the solvers know? When it comes down to it, the solver must be good in the best metric for the scramble.

The second solution, I think, is to just never let the solvers know. The idea behind the system is that hopefully _on average_ STMers and HTMers (and QTMers) win evenly. This however doesn't mean there will be an even playing field _every_ time. So, if you don't know the optimal for scramble (and you're right, there'd be no way to figure it out), you might as well use what metric you do best. Some times you'll get lucky, other times unlucky, but hopefully it's the same for everyone in the long run.

Neither is great, but I think either could work. Any thoughts?


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## DavidWoner (Aug 11, 2010)

Nationals solve 1

(premove) inverse scramble: (B') U D2 L B2 R2 U' L F' D2 L2 D F2 R' D2 R2 B2 U' D B2

2X2X2: U R2 U R

2X2X3: D' L D' L2

3xcross: B D B2 D' B.

leave 3 corners: D2 B D2 R D' R' B'

Insert F' U2 F D' F' U2 F D at the . to cancel one move, resulting in a 27 move solution. Pretty textbook FM solve, rather boring in my opinion. Wish I could have canceled more than one move :/


Nationals Solve 2

(premove) inverse scramble: (U') U R' F U2 B D B2 D' F2 D F D F2 U2 F' D' L2 U

2X2X2: B' L2 U' B

F2L: R U2 R F2 U' R2 F' *R*

OLL: *R'* D' F' D. F D' R U' R' D R U F' U'

insert D2 F R' L D2 R L F D2 at the . to cancel one move, resulting in a 32 move solution. I failed at transcribing it though  The ending of the solve was an epic failure anyway.


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## flee135 (Aug 11, 2010)

I was hoping somebody could help me out with my start for the first Nationals scramble.

(Premoves) and inverse: ((D2 or D') B' L D B D2) U D2 L B2 R2 U' L F' D2 L2 D F2 R' D2 R2 B2 U' D B2

TripleXCross: U R2 U R (D' or D2, depending on premove)

I figured 6 premoves plus 5 moves to get a Triple-X block wasn't so bad, but my solution still turned out to be 38 moves. Could've been in the low 30s, but there were no 8-move insertions, and I don't know how to do anything above that, so I had to improvise and add like 5 or 6 moves in there


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## CharlesOBlack (Aug 11, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> Hey guys, I just put together the last four FMC results using the idea I had for comparing solve efficiency, which would hopefully let people work in any give metric.
> 
> As a quick disclaimer, I am not doing this to promote some random idea I had. I am simply pursuing an avenue of curiosity and figured it was worth sharing. I am by no means convinced that this kind of hybrid system is better than just sticking with HTM.
> 
> ...



hahaha... I suck at FMC, apparently (last round I got most efficient in STM lol)


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## Jude (Aug 12, 2010)

puzzlemaster said:


> US Nationals Round 2 Scramble:
> B2 D' U B2 R2 D2 R F2 D' L2 D2 F L' U R2 B2 L' D2 U'



ROARRRRR! I'm so angry at this.


My solution:

Double X-cross: R' B R2 U' F U D L D' U' F

To make it a triple x-cross I inserted L' U' L U at the start, giving

L' U' L U R' B R2 U' F U D L D' U' F

Putting in the last corner solves a load of stuff and it cancels with the triple x-cross, so 

L' U' L U R' B R2 U' F U D L D' U' R2 F 

leaves just 2 corners and 2 edges. In the competition I just inserted a v-perm and got 30 moves (but DNFed because I wrote down my solution wrong :/), but shortly after I found a much better insertion using the inversion of the reflection of the Old Pochmann alg x' R2 U' R' U x R' F' U' F R U R' U', i.e. U' L' U L F U' F' L' x' U L' U' L2 x.

Insert it after the first 4 move insertion, which gives:

F U' F' L' B L' B' L2 R' B R2 U' F U D L D' U' R2 F (20 HTM)

Yes, that's 20 moves. I'm so annoyed I forgot that alg during the competition. I actually saw that spot for an insertion and spent a couple of minutes trying to remember the old pochmann alg but couldn't do it and just used a v perm instead :/


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## Anthony (Aug 12, 2010)

I did my first ever FMC solve at Nats, and it was actually kind of a race. Rowan, Weston, and I found our solutions within stackmat-time (sub-10), so 40 moves wasn't too bad imo.

The next solve was total bull though. (TOTAL bull.) 

I DNF'd it because I was a cube rotation off. >_>

(Cross on F) inverse scramble: U R' F U2 B D B2 D' F2 D F D F2 U2 F' D' L2 U

Cross: x' y2 D2 L2 U F U (threw in the U just to screw with the top layer a bit) R' D2
F2L 1: R' U' R U L' U' L 
F2L 2: R U R' U R U' R' 
LOLOL
WAT

I ended up using that COLL alg + a U perm for the last layer, but found cancellations and my solution was 35 moves. Oh well.


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## jfly (Aug 12, 2010)

Anthony said:


> (Cross on F) inverse scramble: U R' F U2 B D B2 D' F2 D F D F2 U2 F' D' L2 U
> 
> Cross: x' y2 D2 L2 U F U (threw in the U just to screw with the top layer a bit) R' D2
> F2L 1: R' U' R U L' U' L
> ...



Lol! I remember this. Pretty hilarious.


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## JustinJ (Aug 12, 2010)

Second solve at Nats:

Scramble: U' L2 D F U2 F2 D' F' D' F2 D B2 D' B' U2 F' R U'

2x2: U' B' U2 L' U R2
xCross: U2 L' B
F2L 2: L U' L'
F2L 3: L' U L U L' U2 L
F2L 4: R' U2 R
OLL+PLL skip: F R' F' L F R F' L' U'

With cancellations:
U' B' U2 L' U R2 U2 L' B L U' L2 U L U L' U2 L R' U2 R F R' F' L F R F' L' U' = 30 moves

So lucky 

Someone pointed out to me later that I should have tried for an insertion, but whatever.


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## blah (Aug 12, 2010)

JJWATJJWATJJ


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## Admin (Aug 12, 2010)

In solve 3 i would recommend doing k3 perm to solve x-cross including flipp edges b5 and c2 easy corners do this communtator F' B' R2 and the k1 orientation alg and the corners are done! For the last egdes just do a normal U3-perm modification and done! total 29 moves. For more questions pm me.


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## Kryptonite (Aug 14, 2010)

Hey guys, figured out something cool in my last solve. What it basically comes down to is that there is a simple (ish) way to avoid a pre-move for a final pseudo-block for an F2L minus slot.

A number of times I've come across a cube that I want to move from 2x2x3 to F2L-1, and a pseudo-block does it best. However, at that point I really don't want to go back and do the pre-moves for it--let alone two different ones. So, from here I'd try to solve the two different positioning cases, mentally adjusting for how the pre-move will affect things. When your pre-move should be a half turn it's not so bad, because you just have to switch opposite colors, which is pretty simple. But, when you need a quarter turn pre-move, things get pretty rough.

As I got more ambitious with this, I noticed something. When I followed them through to the end, both pseudo-block positions gave _the same_ results. 

What this means is that there is only one case to examine, and we can simply put the pseudo-block in its easiest position for F2L-1: where the pre-move would be a double turn. From here I can mentally swap the opposite colors for the one side, and continue the solve.

Once you've got the cube ready for insertions, do the pre-move you would have done to fix the pseudo-block (a pseudo-side at this point)--that's where your pre-move goes anyway!


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## Tim Reynolds (Aug 14, 2010)

Kryptonite said:


> As I got more ambitious with this, I noticed something. When I followed them through to the end, both pseudo-block positions gave _the same_ results.



I don't get it, why would this be true? This seems highly counter-intuitive and unlikely.


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## Kryptonite (Aug 14, 2010)

Tim Reynolds said:


> Kryptonite said:
> 
> 
> > As I got more ambitious with this, I noticed something. When I followed them through to the end, both pseudo-block positions gave _the same_ results.
> ...



I'm not sure. And unfortunately, as with most things involving the cube, I can't _prove_ it's true, I can only say I had it happen enough times that I was satisfied with calling it true.

A counter-example would of course prove my assertion incorrect, and I'll gladly edit my post should someone find one. I'll also keep double checking.


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## Stini (Aug 14, 2010)

I don't get that either really. Let's say you want to finish (pseudo) F2L, then it's quite unlikely that you get the same cases for the last pair for both pseudo block positions.


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## Kryptonite (Aug 15, 2010)

Stini said:


> I don't get that either really. Let's say you want to finish (pseudo) F2L, then it's quite unlikely that you get the same cases for the last pair for both pseudo block positions.



Hmm, that's a good point. I overlooked that because I typically try to go from F2L-1 > Complete Skeleton. Where as your suggestion would likely be F2L-1 > F2L > Complete Skeleton. My guess is that I found it to work because Pre-moves happen directly after the complete skeleton.

Maybe it works with a 1-step approach, but not in 2-steps? Or did I just get lucky? The latter seems too odd.


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## Ranzha (Aug 15, 2010)

U' B2 F2 L2 D L2 D' B2 L2 D L U2 B' F2 U L' R2 F L U'

2x-cross: x2 y F' R U' R' D' [5]
F2L 3: y' R U' R' U2 y' R' U' R [7/12]
F2L 4: U2 R U2 R' U y' R' U' R [8/20]
OLL: y L U L' U L U2 L' [7/27]
PLL: x U2 R2 U L U' R2 U L' U B2. [10/37]

CFOP with double x-cross.

EDIT: Forgot OLL y rotation.


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## CharlesOBlack (Aug 15, 2010)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> U' B2 F2 L2 D L2 D' B2 L2 D L U2 B' F2 U L' R2 F L U'
> 
> 2x-cross: x2 y F' R U' R' D' [5]
> F2L 3: y' R U' R' U2 y' R' U' R [7/12]
> ...



This was what worked for me.


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## Ranzha (Aug 15, 2010)

CharlesOBlack said:


> Ranzha V. Emodrach said:
> 
> 
> > U' B2 F2 L2 D L2 D' B2 L2 D L U2 B' F2 U L' R2 F L U'
> ...



Fixed with a y rotation before OLL.


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## Tim Major (Aug 16, 2010)

Weekly 33 scramble: L2 R2 U R' D B F2 D' B' L' B2 L F2 D2 R2 U B' U


Spoiler






ZB_FTW!!! said:


> *FMC:* 34
> B2 R B' L' U F L' F2 D2 F L' B L D L' D' B U' L U B' U B' U2 L U B2 L2 B' L2 B' L2 B2 L
> Very easy scramble this week. Here's the explanation.
> I found a 13 double X-cross that was far more obvious, but it was actually much more move efficient to first form a 2x2x2 then make it bigger.
> ...






So... how to improve? Can someone use my basic solution, to get a shorter solution? eg: insertions? I understand insertion, but I'd love to see a real life example of one, on my own solution.
Thanks if you do  (PS: what is the "general" method used by the best fmc solvers?)

Edit: My solution wasn't working so it was a DNF. However, I now fixed it, so can I have some tips now? 
It sucks because I did it on paper, and the solution I had on the paper was correct, I just mucked it up while typing, and didn't have time to test it.


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## Stini (Aug 16, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Weekly 33 scramble: L2 R2 U R' D B F2 D' B' L' B2 L F2 D2 R2 U B' U
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



The optimal 2x2x3 for that scramble is 6 moves (L2 B2 R D2 B' U) and quite many cubers found it, so I guess you could pay more attention to your start. Even with your start I would have probably expanded differently, for example B2 R B' then F L2 F (or F2) D2 F2 (or F) U and maybe try adding some extra moves in between to orient edges or to get more blocks.

After your 2x2x3, I can't be sure what you have tried here, but my first try would be L2 B D' B' D or B L2 D' B D to build more blocks. Also D L D' B2 L' seems like a decent try. Notice that you can also use those block as pseudo blocks to get more ways to try. If those don't seem to work, then you can try building blocks differently or maybe try orienting some edges first, for example L U' L U B D' B' D orients a couple of edges, preserves the other CE-pair and is not much longer than just L2 B D' B' D. Also B' U B U' D L2 (or L) D' looks nice, and actually you would get a decent solve by continuing L B2 U B U' and L U' L' B' L B U B' L' B. Your continuation seems to me quite long, but on the other hand you got a nice LL so maybe it was worth it. This is mostly about trial and error, the more ways you can come up with building the blocks, the better.

I don't have time now to analyze more, like finding an example with a commutator insertion etc. You can also sometimes insert an LL-case as well, but it really requires that it's something simple that doesn't affect too many pieces or maybe just affects the orientation. Now that would be just a stupid thing to try.


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## CharlesOBlack (Aug 16, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Weekly 33 scramble: L2 R2 U R' D B F2 D' B' L' B2 L F2 D2 R2 U B' U
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 
I can't make your solution work, so... looks like it isn't fixed.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 16, 2010)

Scramble weekly comp 32: B2 L' R F' U F' L' R2 U B2 R2 B' R2 U' L2 U2 L2

L' R' U' R' B F2 EOLine 6/6
R D2 U2 L U2 R' D2 L' D2 L' 1st 1x2x3 block 10/16
D' R D R D' *R* 2nd 1x2x3 block 6/22
*R'* B R F' R' B' R *F* OLL 8/30
*F'* D2 F' D' L' F' L2 D' L' D L' F L D' F PLL 15/45

4 moves cancelled = 41 moves

L' R' U' R' B F2 R D2 U2 L U2 R' D2 L' D2 L' D' R D R D' B R F' R' B' R D2 F' D' L' F' L2 D' L' D L' F L D' F 

Et voila, my first attempt at Fewest Moves.

The actual solution was found within the hour but I had quite a hard time in rewriting the algs for cube rotations and double layer turns.
Especially the F perm was messing me up all the time.

Feel free to comment on my (lack of) blockbuilding skills. 
After making the EOLine there was this red/white center-edge pair waiting to be used but I could just not find a way to use it???

Over the next few days I am going to work through some of the the solves for this scramble in the weekly comp thread to see how the experts do this.
I have already read Arnaud's post on FMC and I see I have still quite a lot to learn.
Think I will start learning commutators so I can work with insertions without having to learn too many algs.


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## Stini (Aug 17, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> Scramble weekly comp 32: B2 L' R F' U F' L' R2 U B2 R2 B' R2 U' L2 U2 L2
> 
> L' R' U' R' B F2 EOLine 6/6
> R D2 U2 L U2 R' D2 L' D2 L' 1st 1x2x3 block 10/16
> ...



Not bad for a first attempt! Personally I think that (pure) ZZ is not really ideal for fewest moves though. Sure it might occasionally bring good results, but correct EO doesn't really guarantee a short solution. Also I find that the line is just on my way, restricting my solve too much. Often it takes less moves to build a block if you allow yourself to flip edges, and also you can often combine EO and block building. If you really want to do the EO-line, perhaps you could try to combine some more block building with it? That way you wouldn't "waste" moves for solving just EO.
I usually start with a 2x2x3, which takes less than 10 moves on average. I might then orient some edges if I can't see a good continuation and if the EO-step contributes to the block building (for example creates pairs). Otherwise I delay the EO even further, just not to restrict myself to certain moves too early.

Other than that, you seem quite good at block building! Only 6 moves for the second block is really nice! The first block isn't bad at all either, but perhaps you can see that the line is restricting you a bit? If you just had a better LL, that would have been a great solution. Generally you want to avoid OLL+PLL and either try something different during F2L to get a nicer LL or you could try some short algorithm (usually T-OLL or Sune) to solve the edges and leave 3 unpermuted corners, which you can then solve with a commutator insertion. In this particular solve you have two opposite edges solved, which isn't that nice (it takes 10 moves just to solve the edges), but on the other hand your corners are permuted so you might be able to find some ending with just 2-gen algs like Sune and Bruno just to avoid the F-perm. One example I came up with is: (finish 2nd block) D' R D R D R D R' D R / (Sune) R' D2 R D R' D R / (Sune) F' D' F D' F' D2 F D. Not terribly efficient, but that's just an example of the idea.

Keep practicing and learning more tricks, I'm sure you'll get under 35 moves in no time!


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 17, 2010)

ZB's solution works for me.
How do you guys practice for FMC? More specifically, if you're going to practice a full solve, do you do it under competition conditions?


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## eastamazonantidote (Aug 17, 2010)

hawkmp4 said:


> ZB's solution works for me.


He updated it. I think it should count because he didn't spend the full hour on it, but that's his call.


> How do you guys practice for FMC? More specifically, if you're going to practice a full solve, do you do it under competition conditions?



I've never done competition nor am I very experienced in FMC, but I think I can chime in here. I practice many method openings: Roux, Petrus, ZZ, and Edges First just for the fun of it. I started seeing the cube differently and my speed solves became more advanced (multislotting, X-Crossing, etc.), though my times didn't drop that much.

I started with just pure Petrus blockbuilding, netting me two 42 move solutions to start my career. After your F2L is done, though, you have to look at the last layer. My first 2 tries I went linearly into the last slot, then evaluated my options, forcing a PLL skip both times (once without EO and once with). After that I started looking into premoves, though still baffled at how people knew what to do. It was then that I discovered NISS. Only then did I start practicing (because now it was fun!).

What I do is take the weekly scramble, do my solve, then observe the solutions of better and more experienced FMCers. I learn methods from them (leaving 3 corners, better blockbuilding, etc.). I probably spend 4 hours or so on the weekly comps. 1 hour on my solution, then 1 or 2 looking at other solutions. Then I spend another 1 or 2 trying to solve the scramble a different way, forcing myself to use something I'd just learned (usually not very successful but I like the challenge). Recently I've put a lot of work into learning about commutators and insertions, as it would've dropped my solution this week to 24 (Chris pointed this out to me).


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## Tim Major (Aug 17, 2010)

eastamazonantidote said:


> hawkmp4 said:
> 
> 
> > ZB's solution works for me.
> ...


In a comp if you spend 25 minutes on a solution, only for the judge to tell you it doesn't work, you can't then fix it and resubmit it just because you didn't use up the full time. Stini informed me on irc that my solution didn't work, so for that reason it isn't fair to count it (unlucky that I had the correct solution written down on paper :/)
I recounted my solution, and was surprised that it was 32 moves, when I was sure it was 34 moves lol. I'd left 2 moves out D:
And it's not my call, it's Mats' call  And I'm sure Mats wouldn't count it unfortunately  (it's meant to be run, like an official comp I suppose. Official rules anyway)


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## ianini (Aug 17, 2010)

Okay... so I'm quite possible the n00best person in FMC but I just did one solve and I found this solution in maybe 5 minutes.

Scramble: R2 L2 D2 L D' U' B' F' L' U B2 D B' L F2 D' U2 L' U2 L2 F B2 U' L' U'
Solution: (38 moves)
Cross: x2 R' D F L
F2L: U' R' U R2 U R'
F2L #2: y' U2 L' U' L
F2L #3: R U R' L U L'
F2L #4: U R U' R' U *R* _U' R'_
OLL: _R U_ *R'* U R' F R F' U2 R' F R F'
PLL: Skip

Any tips are extremely welcome as for I am very interested in FMC.

I also had a few questions:

1.) What is the difference between the lower bound and the upper bound?
2.) Why do people use pre-moves before the scramble?


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## irontwig (Aug 17, 2010)

ianini said:


> 2.) Why do people use pre-moves before the scramble?



Say you find this block:
http://cube.crider.co.uk/visualcube.php?size=150&fmt=png&fc=llllyylyyoolrrlllllgglbblll
If you do "U2" before the scramble it will look like a normal 2x2x2. It's just a way to get more options for blocks.


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## Tim Major (Aug 17, 2010)

irontwig said:


> ianini said:
> 
> 
> > 2.) Why do people use pre-moves before the scramble?
> ...



How do you implement it in a solve? If you do U2 scramble, then solution, how do you make the solution work for the original scramble?


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## irontwig (Aug 17, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> irontwig said:
> 
> 
> > ianini said:
> ...



You just undo the premoves in the end of the solution.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Aug 17, 2010)

irontwig said:


> ZB_FTW!!! said:
> 
> 
> > irontwig said:
> ...



You *do* the premoves, you don't undo them.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi Teemu,

thank you for your feedback.
I chose the ZZ approach because it should give a lower move count vs straight forward CFOP (my main method).

I understand that it is not a typical FMC method but it has tought me already (a little bit) about block building. So much to learn...


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## irontwig (Aug 21, 2010)

Couldn't be bothered to wait for a new scramble from Mats or Per, so I generated one with Cube Explorer and got a PB, yay!

Scramble: U F2 R2 F R2 D B U B2 F R F D F' U' L' D
Solution: F R L F' B2 L' B U L D' U' R' U2 B2 U R B R' B' R2 B R B' R' D' R' U' R D R' U (31)

Outline:
F R L F' B2 L' B U L D' U2 [2x2x3] (11)
U R' U2 B2 U [Triple X-cross] (15)
R B R' B' R2 B R B' R2 [Everything but last three corners] (24)
R D' R' U' R D R' U [Last three corners, simple commutator] (31)

Pretty bad start, but good continuation. Found in about 30 minutes.


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## Tim Major (Aug 24, 2010)

Scramble: B' D2 L2 U' R' U2 L D B R' D' U2 L' D2 R2 F' L B' L F D R' D2 F U' 
Solution so far: z2 F' R' D' x U R U' F U' B U x' y' R U2 R' D F' U' F y2 D F' U F D y

Now this is what I was trying after that.
R U' R2 F D' F D

And I'm left with 2 edges and 4 corners. How would I go about solving this? Insertions? If so, how?
I don't have much time before I need to go, but I was originally having D' R' B2 as premoves and keyholing to make f2l (not effieciently, just messing around with different methods of doing FMC)

So how would "a pro" finish this solution? 
z2 F' R' D' x U R U' F U' B U x' y' R U2 R' D F' U' F y2 D F' U F D y (and possible R U' R2 F D' F D)
Thanks.


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## okayama (Aug 25, 2010)

I couldn't find any 8-move corner 3-cycle insertion in the following frame.

Scramble: L B2 F D2 F' R2 D' U B2 L U' R D F' U L R2 B2 D' B' D' L' R' F' L'
Solution: F2 R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F' D2 L' F D2 L' R' F' R U' R D B2 L' D' L B R D R' D' B' D B D (33 HTM)

1st c/e pair: D2 L'
2x2x1 block (a): F D2
2x2x1 block (b): L'
2x2x3 block: R' F' R U' R
F2L minus 1 slot: D B'
More c/e pair: B' L' D' L B
Orient edges: R D R'
All but 3 corners: D' B' D B D

Insert at the beginning: F2 (R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F) F2

Could anyone find another good insertion?


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## Cubenovice (Aug 27, 2010)

Weekly 34 scramble D' L2 D' R B' R' F2 R' B2 F2 D2 R2 B L' U B

I was trying to solve this with a ZZ approach and upon my fourth pair I came across something I found very interesting.
With a simple U perm I could get the cube solved apart from four cubies twisted in their correct spot.

But could not put it to good use... Is there really something there or does it just look nice and that's it?

z2 B2 D2 R F' D2 L' D' EOLine 7
L' U' L R' U R 1st pair 13
U2 L U2 R U R' 2nd pair 19
U L U' L' U2 L' 3rd pair 25
Nasty remaining corner edge pair...
All ways of inserting it correctly where too long and resulted in long OLL's

So I just "hammered" it in with U' F' L F L' 30
Now a CW U perm (11) permutes the edges and I am left with 2 twisted corners and 2 flipped edges in their correct positions.

(The edge cycle of the U perm can be inserted in various positions in the solve to check for cancellations)

I find the resulting state *looks* really interesting but is there a way to fix this with a commutator?


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## DavidWoner (Aug 27, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> Now a CW U perm (11)



11? 9 please F2 U R' L F2 R L' U F2


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## CharlesOBlack (Aug 27, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> Weekly 34 scramble D' L2 D' R B' R' F2 R' B2 F2 D2 R2 B L' U B
> 
> I was trying to solve this with a ZZ approach and upon my fourth pair I came across something I found very interesting.
> With a simple U perm I could get the cube solved apart from four cubies twisted in their correct spot.
> ...



There /is/ a way to fix it with a commutator, but it's too long for your solve. I'd probably find a way to insert that 3rd pair a different way so the 4th pair won't be so hard. [multislotting?]


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## Cubenovice (Aug 27, 2010)

Initially I had a different 3rd pair but that gave me another unfavorable 4th pair 

9 moves for a 3 edge cyle? try U2 M U2 M'

On a serious note: I do not know too many algs so just counted turns of my speedsolve U perm


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## Forte (Aug 27, 2010)

DavidWoner said:


> Cubenovice said:
> 
> 
> > Now a CW U perm (11)
> ...





Cubenovice said:


> 9 moves for a 3 edge cyle? try U2 M U2 M'



U2 M U2 M' with a setup is F2 U R' L F2 R L' U F2 >_>


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## DavidWoner (Aug 27, 2010)

Also starting with ZZ and then messing up EO on your last pair is a pointless exercise. Having edges oriented is really only important for the end of your solve, so doing it at the beginning and then destroying it right when you need it is an awful idea. And inserting pure flips/twists generally turns out poorly.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 27, 2010)

Fair enough 
I was thinking about an insertion where the pieces where on the M slice.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 27, 2010)

DavidWoner said:


> Also starting with ZZ and then messing up EO on your last pair is a pointless exercise. Having edges oriented is really only important for the end of your solve, so doing it at the beginning and then destroying it right when you need it is an awful idea. And inserting pure flips/twists generally turns out poorly.



Thanks for your thoughts.

Well I did not seriously consider messing up EO in a ZZ solve.
But decided to post this because I stumbled over the last pair and in fiddling around found this funny "end". I didn't kow if there could be an "easy" fix.
Something like a comm or cycle that flips the cubies and could be inserted somewhere during the solve.


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## Tim Reynolds (Aug 27, 2010)

DavidWoner said:


> Also starting with ZZ and then messing up EO on your last pair is a pointless exercise. Having edges oriented is really only important for the end of your solve, so doing it at the beginning and then destroying it right when you need it is an awful idea. And inserting pure flips/twists generally turns out poorly.



Fair, but if it gives something interesting, then it's not a pointless exercise. Just like how Anthony Brooks' nationals solve, solving the first cross and then switching F2Ls is pointless, except that it worked really well. If you're trying ZZ, and you get to the last pair, why wouldn't you just try everything?

Then again, that's why I don't like methods like Petrus or ZZ for FMC--working to preserve orientation in the first place doesn't seem that good of an idea to me.


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## Cride5 (Aug 27, 2010)

Yup, I rarely do EO at the beginning of an FM solve, unless there are absolutely no blockbuilding starts, either on scramble or its inverse. This for example:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=431891&postcount=376

Much better is to think about EO during the blockbuilding, so that it is largely solved when you get to the last slot. If I can get at least 3x LL edges oriented, and one pair by the time I reach F2L-1, I'm happy.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 27, 2010)

Why I am using ZZ for FMC:

I have done only three FMC attempts up till now and have found that I really suck at block building and then even more in continueing into a proper LL.

Practicing ZZ builds already some experience with blockbuilding, results in oriented LL edges and should have an overall lower movecount vs CFOP.

I have tried making some 2x2x3 blocks without EO beforehand but then LL completely messes me up.

I consider ZZ as a sort of transit station on my way to becoming a multi-methodist but there is so much to learn and so little time to study...


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## Stini (Aug 29, 2010)

I made two sub-30s this weekend at Finnish Open. Here are the scrambles and the solutions:

Scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 D R2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' B R2 B R B2 U' F L
Solution: L2 B L' R2 B' L D' F' L' F' L' D2 L' D' L2 D L' D' L D L2 B' L2 B L B' L B D2 (29 HTM)

Pre-move D2

2x2x2: L2 B L' R2 B'
2x2x3+EO: L D' F' L' F'
F2L minus slot: L' D2
F2L: L' D' L2 D L' D' L D
LL: L2 B' L2 B L B' L B

Scramble: L B2 D2 F2 L U2 L' R F2 D' L2 R D' U R2 B2 R B D R F'
(Inverse scramble: F R' D' B' R' B2 R2 U' D R' L2 D F2 R' L U2 L' F2 D2 B2 L')

Solution: R2 U2 L' D' F' B2 U' B' D2 B U B' D B2 F' U2 R U' R' U2 F2 R U' R' F U' D (27 HTM)

Pre-move D

2x2x3: R2 U2 L' D' F' B. D' B2

Now I switched to the inverse scramble (pre-moves B2 D B' F D L U2 R2)

Pseudo-F2L minus slot: D' U F' R U R' F2
Leave 3 corners: U2 R U R' U2 F

Insert B U' B' D2 B U B' D2 at the dot to cancel 3 moves.

I think I'm now the only person with more than two official sub-30 solves.


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## DavidWoner (Aug 29, 2010)

Stini said:


> I think I'm now the only person with more than two official sub-30 solves.



I hope I don't have to wait another year to make this not true anymore >:[


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## Ville Seppänen (Aug 29, 2010)

Stini said:


> Scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 D R2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' B R2 B R B2 U' F L



btw this is joey.

Solution (37)

2x2x2: R' U2 D' L2 D
2x2x3+cross: U2 R U' R U2 B' R
F2L + LL: y U2 R' [F B' R2 F' B] U R U2 F' U' F y R U' R' U2 F' U' F U' F' U F U2

I get bored easily. [] was an insertion.


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## deepSubDiver (Aug 29, 2010)

From a weekly competition in a German board. Was actually just playing around with phasing and forced a LL skip 
For the second step, I am currently compiling a list of algorithms.


```
scramble: B' F' R2 B' L2 R2 F' L B' F L D R' B' U2 L2 B U

223    (8/8)     x2 B2 F' D' F U2 B2 R L y
eo+cp  (5/13)    R U B' R B
f2l    (14/27)   U R2 U2 R U R U R' U R2 U R U2 R2

F2 B' U' B D2 F2 R L F D L' F L D F2 D2 F D F D F' D F2 D F D2 F2[code]
```


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## guusrs (Aug 29, 2010)

Stini said:


> I think I'm now the only person with more than two official sub-30 solves.



Wooow, great! Congratz! Yes you are that only person at this moment!
I'll try the scrambles.......

Gus


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## guusrs (Aug 29, 2010)

okayama said:


> I couldn't find any 8-move corner 3-cycle insertion in the following frame.
> 
> Scramble: L B2 F D2 F' R2 D' U B2 L U' R D F' U L R2 B2 D' B' D' L' R' F' L'
> Solution: F2 R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F' D2 L' F D2 L' R' F' R U' R D B2 L' D' L B R D R' D' B' D B D (33 HTM)
> ...




Noop, no better insertions possible!
Are you sure there are no other options after your splendid 10 moves start?
Gus


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## okayama (Aug 30, 2010)

guusrs said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > I couldn't find any 8-move corner 3-cycle insertion in the following frame.
> ...


There might be a better way to continue, but that was the best I could do in 1-hour.

I surprised to realize that any 8-move insertion was not applicable in this frame, so just wanted to make sure whether that was really impossible. Thanks, Guus.

And congrats Teemu on remarkable records!


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## Tim Major (Aug 31, 2010)

Wow....

B2 D2 F B2 R2 L' D' R F U2 R B2 D B' D' B' R' B' F2 U2 R' F B R B 

y' D B2 R' y' U' R F R2 U2 R2 U2 R U' L' U' L (15)

Now what 
Couldn't find anything decent.
If you do y F R U R' U' R F r U R' U' r'
You get a U-perm, but I couldn't find any insertions.
15 f2l is O_O for me 
Didn't take long to find that either. Any "pro" FMCers wanna have a go at sub 25? (maybe that's a bit too crazy for this start )
I am loving the 3 move block with free pairs xD
After that start, I didn't bother with premoves and whatnot. Didn't see much good with reverse scramble. I suppose NISS wouldn't be useful here? I don't really know how to use NISS so I wouldn't've found anything ^.^
Have to go, so can't check my solution or w/e.


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## okayama (Sep 1, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Wow....
> 
> B2 D2 F B2 R2 L' D' R F U2 R B2 D B' D' B' R' B' F2 U2 R' F B R B
> 
> ...



Here is your solve, without cube-rotation:

2x2x2 block: D R2 F'
More 2x2x1 block: U' L B L2 U2
F2L minus 1 slot: L2 * U2 L
Finish F2L: U' R' U' R

Very nice start. After the F2L, I found the following skeleton:

Orient edges: R' F' U' F U R (well-known OLL)
All but 3 corners: R' U2 R U R' U R U' (well-known OLL)

Then insert L D2 L' U L D2 L' U' at * to solve the 3 corners.

Final solution: D R2 F' U' L B L2 U2 L' D2 L' U L D2 L' U L U' R' U' F' U' F U' R U R' U R U' (30 HTM)

In addition, Cube Explorer tells us the optimal way to finish after the F2L is as follows:

More pairs: R U R'
Orient edges: B' U' R' U R B (well-known OLL)
Solve all: U2 R U2 R'

Final solution: D R2 F' U' L B L2 U2 L2 U2 L U' R' U' R2 U R' B' U' R' U R B U2 R U2 R' (27 HTM)

Maybe you can understand it.


With modification of the start, I found the following 23-move solution in 15 minutes. 

Solution: D R2 F' U' R' U' L2 U R L2 B R' U' R2 B2 R' U' B' U' B2 U B U' (23 HTM)

2x2x2 block: D R2 F' (the same start as yours)
2x2x3 block: U2 L2 * U L2
Orient edges: B R' U' R2 B2 R'
F2L minus 1 slot: U2
All but 3 corners: U B' U' B2 U B U'

Insert at *: L2 U R' U' L2 U R U'

(Thanks Per for letting me know my mistake, as stated below, I hope it is now fixed)


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## mrCage (Sep 2, 2010)

Sorry to be nitpicking. A start that leaves (a few) insertions should be called a *skeleton* and not a frame. Nevertheless i'm reallly impressed by your fewest moves skills Okayama. FM has come a long way since i first got into it (again) 4-5 yrs back.

Per


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## Sebastien (Sep 6, 2010)

My second official 27 solution! 

Scramble: B2 L F2 R U2 B2 R U2 F2 U2 L' F2 U' F' R2 B2 R B' L' U' B2 U
Inverse: U' B2 U L B R' B2 R2 F U F2 L U2 F2 U2 R' B2 U2 R' F2 L' B2

Start with normal Scramble:

Pseudo 2x2x3: R' D F' L R' B2 L' U2 L2 (9 moves)
Extention to Pseudo-Triple-X-Cross: U' F2 L' U' L (5 moves)

switch to inverse scramble:

Cube minus corner 3-cycle: L2 F R' F R U F2 U' F (9 moves)

Solution to corner-3-cycle: R' D F' L R' B2 L' U2 L2 U' F2 L' U' L F' U F2 U' . R' F' R F' L2 (23 moves)

Insertion: . = U R' D' R U' R' D R (8 moves, 4 moves cancellation!)


Final Solution: R' D F' L R' B2 L' U2 L2 U' F2 L' U' L F' U F2 R' D' R U' R' D F' R F' L2

27 moves


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## guusrs (Sep 6, 2010)

Sébastien_Auroux said:


> My second official 27 solution!
> 
> Scramble: B2 L F2 R U2 B2 R U2 F2 U2 L' F2 U' F' R2 B2 R B' L' U' B2 U
> Inverse: U' B2 U L B R' B2 R2 F U F2 L U2 F2 U2 R' B2 U2 R' F2 L' B2
> ...



Woooow, great, again 27 moves, and using NISS! 
Congratz!

I will try the sramble soon....

Gus


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## guusrs (Sep 7, 2010)

Stini said:


> I made two sub-30s this weekend at Finnish Open. Here are the scrambles and the solutions:
> 
> Scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 D R2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' B R2 B R B2 U' F L
> Solution: L2 B L' R2 B' L D' F' L' F' L' D2 L' D' L2 D L' D' L D L2 B' L2 B L B' L B D2 (29 HTM)
> ...


Hi Stini,
I did 28 and 29 moves an these solves ;-)
Gus


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## okayama (Sep 9, 2010)

guusrs said:


> Stini said:
> 
> 
> > I made two sub-30s this weekend at Finnish Open. Here are the scrambles and the solutions:
> ...



I also found a 28-move solution for the first one.

Scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 D R2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' B R2 B R B2 U' F L
Solution: L' F' L' B' L F L' B2 L' R2 B' L D F' L F D2 F D2 R' D R D R' D' R D F (28 HTM)

Pre-scramble: F

2x2x2 block: L2 * B L' R2 B' (Same as Teemu's solution)
2x2x3 block: L D L
Orient edges: L' F' L
F2L minus 1 slot: F D2 F
More 2x2x1 block: D2 R' D R
All but 3 corners: D R' D' R D
Correction: F

Insert at *: L F' L' B' L F L' B


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## Ranzha (Sep 11, 2010)

Scramble: L2 U2 L2 D2 U R2 U' L2 B F L2 B' L' R2 D2 U L D' L' R

Double x-cross: (y2) F' L' F R2 D' R' [6/6]
F2L: (x2 y) R U R F' U' F U2 R' U' R [10/16]
OLL: U' R' F R F' U R [7/23]
PLL: (x) L' D L' U2 L D' L' U2 L2 [9/32]

Whoa. This was a great solve.
Took about 8 minutes.


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## satya (Sep 11, 2010)

pre moves+scramble:RUR'+U' D2 L R' F2 R B D' F' B2 U' D' F' R2 L2 F U B' D2 U' B' L F2 U R D' B F R' U' 
2x2x3:L F2 L' F' B2 (5/5)
all corners:R2L'. D F' D'(12/17)
insert sune at . to orient corners: F' R F' R 'F2 R F2
this is a good start for me(first serious attempt at FMC),
i could not find any good insertions to solve the remaining 5 edges
or is this a good skeleton?
please help.


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## okayama (Sep 11, 2010)

guusrs said:


> Hi
> 
> After all the easy scrambles, here is a really hard one!
> It was the scramble of the Dutch Open 2009 FMC competition october 17 2009:
> ...



I found this post, and tried.

Solution: F' U2 L U L' U B2 D' R D B2 F D' B U2 F' L2 F2 U' R U R' B R' B' R F' R D' L2 (30 HTM)

(For inverse scramble)

Pre-scramble: U2 B' D

1st 2x2x1 block: L2 D R'
2nd 2x2x1 block: F R' B R
3rd 2x2x1 block: B' R U' R'
F2L minus 1 slot: U F'
All but 2 edges/2 corners: F' L2 F
Correction: U2 B' D
Setup+J-perm: F' (B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2) F

There might be another good insertion, but I ran out of time...


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## okayama (Sep 12, 2010)

Correct explanation for FMC #310 classic

Scramble: U' D2 L R' F2 R B D' F' B2 U' D' F' R2 L2 F U B' D2 U' B' L F2 U R D' B F R' U' 
Solution: L R2 F' D' F2 B2 R' U L U' R2 U L U B2 D B2 U F2 R2 U R2 U F2 U' L2 (26 HTM)

Pre-scramble: L2

1) getting into <U,D,L,R,F2,B2> group

L R2 F'

2) getting into <U,D,L2,R2,F2,B2> group
2a) edges

D' F2 B2 R'

2b) corners

U L U' R2 U L'

3) domino-solve

2x2x2 block: L2 U B2 D B2
2x2x3 block: U F2 U
F2L minus 1 slot: F2
Solve all: F2 U' R2 U R2 U F2 U'
Correction: L2

1) and 2) are based on a simplified Thistlethwaite approach.
(Hard scramble for my usual approach)


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## satya (Sep 12, 2010)

@okayama: please suggest a nice insertion for the same scramble(FMC-310)
with premoves:RUR'
L F2 L' F' B2 R2 L'F' R F' R 'F2 R F2 D F' D'(17 moves) leaves 5 edges.
how will you end this?


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## okayama (Sep 12, 2010)

satya said:


> @okayama: please suggest a nice insertion for the same scramble(FMC-310)
> with premoves:RUR'
> L F2 L' F' B2 R2 L'F' R F' R 'F2 R F2 D F' D'(17 moves) leaves 5 edges.
> how will you end this?



Your skeleton: L F2 L' * F' + B2 R2 L' F' R F' R' F2 R F2 D F' D' R U R' (20 HTM)

Insert at *: L S2 L' F' L S2 L' F
Insert at +: L2 U' L2 f2 L2 U' L2 f2 (or L2 U' L2 B2 R2 D' R2 B2)

Final solution: L f2 L' F' L S2 L U' L2 B2 R2 D' L' F' R F' R' F2 R F2 D F' D' R U R' (27 HTM)

I stopped searching insertions at +, so they might not be optimal. Keep trying by yourself!


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## guusrs (Sep 12, 2010)

okayama said:


> Correct explanation for FMC #310 classic
> 
> Scramble: U' D2 L R' F2 R B D' F' B2 U' D' F' R2 L2 F U B' D2 U' B' L F2 U R D' B F R' U'
> Solution: L R2 F' D' F2 B2 R' U L U' R2 U L U B2 D B2 U F2 R2 U R2 U F2 U' L2 (26 HTM)
> ...



Hi Okayama,
Very smart solve! How long did you need to find this?
Yes, this was a very hard scramble for 1-hour solve. I had a 35-move-backup-solve but I thought it wasn't worth posting. Now I see the best 1-hour solve was 36 moves. What was your 1-hour solution?

With pre-moves U2 L2 you can find nice starts but all left rubbish, also for NISS!

Gus


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## okayama (Sep 13, 2010)

guusrs said:


> Hi Okayama,
> Very smart solve! How long did you need to find this?
> Yes, this was a very hard scramble for 1-hour solve. I had a 35-move-backup-solve but I thought it wasn't worth posting. Now I see the best 1-hour solve was 36 moves. What was your 1-hour solution?
> 
> ...



Hi Guus,

Curious about the length of time? Maybe not only you. 

I spent a long time actually, a few hours. Most of the times were spent on investigating the step 3).
So I don't think this approach can be used in an official competition, at least for me.

In 1-hour solve of #310, I didn't have any full solution (DNF).
Here are some of my tries:

1st 2x2x1 block: F' D2 F2 D2
2nd 2x2x1 block: B2 L2 U2
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: L' U R'
F2L minus 1 slot: F' U' F2 U F L'
Finish F2L L' B L B'
Pair 3-cycle: L U L' U' L' B L B'

first try, almost linear solve, which leaves 3 corners with 27 HTM.
I should complete this skeleton as a backup solution. 

Another interesting start for the inverse scramble:

2x2x2 block: L' U2 D2 R' L' D
2x2x3 block: U2 F U2 R2
F2L minus 1 slot: L' U L U2

I couldn't find a good continuation in 1-hour. But just now, I found the following continuation:

All but 3 corners: U2 F' U F' U2 F U F' U F2 U2

Not special, 23-moves skeleton. I hope I could find this skeleton in 1-hour...


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## kinch2002 (Sep 13, 2010)

FMC at Swedish Open 2010
Scramble: R2 B2 R B2 R' B2 R' F2 D2 U2 F2 R' F' L' B2 U L2 D B' L2 R2 (21f)
Solution: *U F' L F2 U2 R2 U R' B' L2 D L D B D B' D2 B D B' R' B R2 U2 R' D R U2 R' (29 moves NR)*

2x2x3: U F' L F2 U2 R2 U R' B' L' (10) The B' is to preserve a pair
Switch to inverse scramble with premoves L B R U' R2 U2 F2 L' F U'
F2L-1: D' R' B' R (14) The D' is to orient 2 edges
Switch back to normal scramble with premoves R' B R D, then apply the 2x2x3 block moves
Make LL block and finish F2L: L' D L D B D B' D2 B D B' (24) Leaves 3 corners
That creates the insertion-less solution as U F' L F2 U2 R2 U R' B' L2 D L D B D B' D2 B D B' R' B R * D
At *, insert R U2 R' D R U2 R' D' to cancel 3 moves, giving 24+8-3=29 moves


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## palash_du (Sep 14, 2010)

Hi,
I tried FMC for this weeks competition at mustcube! This is my first solve and as a result it is very bad. Please have a look and see if there is something you can insert. 

Scramble: R L U D F2 D R' L' D U2 R' U' B' F' L B' R' D U F' U R F2 B' R' F' L U' B R2

Solve:
2x2x3 block: L' U' R D R D2 U2 B
Orienting & permuting corners: B U' B'U' R2
R' F' L' F R F' L F
F' L F' R2 F L' F' R2 F2
now a 5 cycle of edges remains
FB'R'F'B
RF2U'R'LF2L'RU'F2
R'U

The whole solution is: L' U' R D R D2 U2 B2 U' B'U' R F' L' F R F' L2 R2 F L' F' R2 F' B' R' F' B R F2 U' R' L F2 L' R U' F2 R' U

The whole solution is 40 moves. Nice for a start!!


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## irontwig (Sep 14, 2010)

palash_du said:


> Hi,
> I tried FMC for this weeks competition at mustcube! This is my first solve and as a result it is very bad. Please have a look and see if there is something you can insert.
> 
> Scramble: R L U D F2 D R' L' D U2 R' U' B' F' L B' R' D U F' U R F2 B' R' F' L U' B R2
> ...



Just doing last three corners at the end I found this 35 mover with your 2x2x3:

_L' U' R D R D2 U2 B R U' R U' R' F' U2 F U2 B U' B' U' R' U' R U' R' U R2 D R' U' R D' R' U'_

L' U' R D R D2 U2 B [2x2x3]
R U' R U' R' F' U2 F [EO]
U2 B U' B' U' R' U' R U' R' U R . U2[Leaving 3 corners]
Insert at dot: R D R' U' R D' R' U (Cancels two moves)

Very nice beginning, especially for a first-timer!


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## zaub3rfr4g (Sep 14, 2010)

Need help for two solves 

#1
scramble: L F2 B D2 F' L U' B2 R2 U' R D2 R2 L' U F' B2 D2 U' D F2 U2 L' B L

x y2 F L' U B' R2 D' F' 2x2x3 - 1 edge
U' L B' L' B U R' triple x cross (14)
and now...?

#2
scramble: R2 F B L' D2 U F2 U' L R' D' L2 U2 B' R D2 U' L2 R2 F D2 B' L2 B U

L' D' 2x2x2
U' create a pair
R' U' B R2 U' B U2 B triple x cross (11)

now i can't find a decent ending


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## irontwig (Sep 14, 2010)

1#: Rotations? Yuck.

2#: Leaves three corners: F R' F' R2 B U B' U R' U' R U R' (24) (Premovish strategy with R') Too lazy to search for an insertion. But if you bother to look for one, it can be sub-30 if you find a place to cancel 3 moves.


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## Johannes91 (Sep 14, 2010)

My solution from Swedish Open 2010:

Scramble: R2 B2 R B2 R' B2 R' F2 D2 U2 F2 R' F' L' B2 U L2 D B' L2 R2

S1+2: U2 F U D' L F2 B L2
S3+4a: F' B R' B' R F
S4b: D2 L' D' L D' R' B2 R
ZBLL: R' B' R2 B R2 B R2 B2 R2 B2 R B (31f)

I really don't like the end, but couldn't find anything better.


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## palash_du (Sep 15, 2010)

irontwig said:


> palash_du said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...



Thanks!

Nice to see a 35 mover of my solve !!!
Can you explain how you figure out insertions in a particular solve. I do not seem to get the hang of that!


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## irontwig (Sep 15, 2010)

Heise has a page on how to recognize and solve 8-move cases:

http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/corner_3_cycles.html

What you can do is stickering the pieces you need to cycle according to their sticker cycle ("This sticker ends up here and this one here"). When I try insertions I sticker one cycle like 1->2->3 and the other one A->B->C so each corner has two stickers. Then you just step through the solution and take note of every time you see that the corners has solvable with a 8 mover. For the solution above I didn't need any stickers, since I did the insertion at the end where it's obvious where every corner needs to go.

hth


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## Kenneth (Sep 15, 2010)

Weekly (D' F D' F' L' D L2 R U2 F' U' B U2 F R D F2 U'), I had a 12 move triple x :

U' D' L2 D' B2 U D2 L' D F2 D2 L'

But the rest sucked so I took a DNF.

Edit, Hmm, just found this for last pair and EO : F' D2 F *

* alt 1 : D2 F L' F' L D L B' L' B
* alt 2 : D' L B' L' B D' F L' F' L

Both gives 25 and the same ZBLL case, that I don't know, both my COLL and it's mirror leaves a U-PLL


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## irontwig (Sep 15, 2010)

Kenneth,I found 30 move solution with your first 10 moves (gotta take care of those bad edges!):

U' D' L2 D'.B2 U D2 L' D F2 
D' B D' B2 L' B
L' D L D' L' D' L D2

Insert at dot: D R' D' L' D R D' L (Two moves cancel)

Stealing others' beginnings is pretty fun.


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## Kenneth (Sep 15, 2010)

Yes, the edges sucked, that's why I did not find a good end. I must work on a few standard ways to avoid situations like that.

Nice work Mr Stålgren =)

You should have come to SOC, you are a potentional winner in FMC. (Next time will probably be the Cube day in "Blackan", be there!)


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## hiep_h1tv (Sep 19, 2010)

first
i'm just a newbie and i'm vietnamese so my english not well
so some words i said is wrong,srr
second
i just start FMC for a week.
i finish the cube by xcross>f2l>zbll but some zbll i don't know
i need someone help me about that
thank all


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## Stini (Sep 20, 2010)

Here's my yet another sub-30 solve from Estonian Open:

Scramble: D2 L2 F D2 U2 B R2 U2 F' U2 R' D R U2 L' U' R2 F' L2 U F
(Inverse scramble: F' U' L2 F R2 U L U2 R' D' R U2 F U2 R2 B' U2 D2 F' L2 D2)

Solution: F' B2 R2 B U R U' R2 B2 R' B2 R2 B R' D' L2 D R D' L2 R' U' R2 B2 L' (25 HTM)

Pre-move for the inverse scramble: F

2x2x3: L B2 R2 U R D.
Pseudo F2L minus slot: B' R2 B2 R B2 
Leave 3 corners: R2 U R' U' B' R2 B2

Insert D' L2 D R' D' L2 D R at the dot to cancel 2 moves.

I didn't have much time in the end so I was rushing a bit and I felt quite nervous so it's possible that I overlooked a better insertion. I spent quite a lot of time for the start, which caused the time trouble. I was quite surprised to find such a nice start on a scramble with no pairs. 

My next try will be in the European championships, I feel anxious already.


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## irontwig (Sep 20, 2010)

Isn't that pre-move "related to the scramble" though? Not that I personally think that your solution should have been disqualified, but that's still pretty much what the regulations state.


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## Stini (Sep 20, 2010)

I think there was a discussion about that somewhere previously and, as far as I can remember, the general consensus was that it's ok as long as you can explain the reasoning behind the move(s). Here it's simply solving a pseudo pair, which leads to an easy 2x2x3. In Finnish competition we actually used to interpret the rule strictly like that and once we had a scramble which had an easy 3-move 2x2x2 but we couldn't use that because the first move would have cancelled the last move of the scramble (unless you did something tricky like leave three corners and make the insertion in the beginning of the solution haha). There are many problems with such a strict approach, for example if you use the inverse scramble, you can't know beforehand what the last move of your solution will be (= first move of the inverted solution). Here I also used the inverse scramble, so the last move of the solution wasn't sure beforehand. For example I could have got a pseudo block, which would have required another pre-move so the starting move of the solution would have been different. As a matter of fact I got a pseudo block here, but the corresponding pre-move happened to be on the B-face. Also I could have cancelled my F pre-move and get a different first move.


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## okayama (Sep 20, 2010)

@Teemu:
I was profoundly moved by your beautiful solution, Teemu. In your start, L B2 R2 U R D, the 5th move R might be a great inserted move. I checked your solution and found your insertion is optimal. Congratulations!

@irontwig: 


irontwig said:


> Isn't that pre-move "related to the scramble" though? Not that I personally think that your solution should have been disqualified, but that's still pretty much what the regulations state.



You mean the following regulation, right?



> E2e) The solution of the competitor must not be in any way related to the scrambling algorithm. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.



I'm not sure that scrambling algorithm == scramble, but if so, the statement has room for improvement. Here are some of my opinions:

1. For any solution
Strictly speaking, all, any solution should be related to the given scramble because it solves the scramble.

2. Solution with premoves
If a normal solution (any technique isn't used in it) is approved by the regulation, a solution with a premove should be approved, too.
(proof)
a) Advanced, trained FMC players can recognize a pseudo block without a premove actually, so it is equal to a normal solution. Teemu's solution above is a good example. "B F" should be treated as premoves but "B" is skipped in his explanation. Another good example is Guus' linear solution in FMC #329/speed. He solved it without the premove "D".
b) If a solution with one-move premove is approved, then a solution with any-moves premove should be approved by the inductive method. 

EDIT:
Non-premove means that "I will go (from the given state) to the solved state".
Premove X means that "I will go to the state that can reach the solved state by moving X". In other words, "I *regard* such a state (reaches the solved state by moving X) as the *final goal*". 
Premoves X Y means that "I will go to the state that can reach the solved state by moving X Y".
Premoves X Y Z means that "I will go to the state that can reach the solved state by moving X Y Z".
The difference between these solutions is just a viewpoint/thinking, and there is no cheat.

And conversely, any normal solution, say "a b c d e", can be regarded as a solution "a b c d" with a premove "e", or "a b c" with premoves "d e", or like that. So if premove-used-solution is disqualified, any normal solution should also be disqualified.

3. (Additional) Solution for a inverse scramble
If a solution with any-moves premove is approved, then a solution for a inverse scramble should be approved.
(proof)
a) Just treat it as a solution with premoves (and no-move to solve) for a regular scramble.

4. (Additional) Solution with NISS
(proof)
Clear from the proofs above.

Aside from this logic, these techniques should not be treated as a cheat but as an elegant way to solve this puzzle, Rubik's cube. From a mathematical point of view, these techniques just rewrite a given problem to an equivalent, but easily recognizable problem. If the regulation does not permit these techniques, the regulation should be improved, I think.


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## qqwref (Sep 20, 2010)

As I see it the regulation is only for the most obvious cases where your solution is basically some modification of the inverse scrambling algorithm itself. The whole idea is to prevent people from doing this, as a 20 move scramble will give you a very nice result even if you lose 5 or 10 moves - the regulation is not in place to prevent people from using certain solutions. I don't think a solution with one or two (even three) moves in a row similar to the scramble counts for this. Besides, a really related scramble would be hard to explain anyway.


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## okayama (Sep 20, 2010)

qqwref said:


> As I see it the regulation is only for the most obvious cases where your solution is basically some modification of the inverse scrambling algorithm itself. The whole idea is to prevent people from doing this, as a 20 move scramble will give you a very nice result even if you lose 5 or 10 moves - the regulation is not in place to prevent people from using certain solutions. I don't think a solution with one or two (even three) moves in a row similar to the scramble counts for this. Besides, a really related scramble would be hard to explain anyway.


 
Like this, right?

Scramble: D2 L2 F D2 U2 B R2 U2 F' U2 R' D R U2 L' U' R2 F' L2 U F
Solution: R B' R' B' U2 B F' L2 R B R' U' L2 F R2 U L R' D' R F U2 R2 B' U2 D2 L2 D2 R2 B R2 (31 HTM)

2x2x1 block: F' U' L2
More pairs: F R2 U L
Orient edges: R' D' R
2x2x1 block: F
2x2x2 block: U2 R2 B' U2
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: D2
All but 3 corners/edges: L2 D2 R2 B R2

Insert at the beginning: R B' R' * F' R B R' F
Insert at *: B' U2 B F' L2 F

I made this solution by modifying the inverse scramble (of course a cheat), but a judge may not realize it.


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## qqwref (Sep 20, 2010)

Yes, perhaps they won't see it. Maybe all competitors should have to submit their explanations too, just in case.


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## Rune (Sep 20, 2010)

Kenneth said:


> Yes, the edges sucked, that's why I did not find a good end. I must work on a few standard ways to avoid situations like that.
> 
> Nice work Mr Stålgren =)
> 
> You should have come to SOC, you are a potentional winner in FMC. (Next time will probably be the Cube day in "Blackan", be there!)


 
I have guessed on Järnkvist.


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## guusrs (Sep 22, 2010)

Stini said:


> Here's my yet another sub-30 solve from Estonian Open:
> 
> Scramble: D2 L2 F D2 U2 B R2 U2 F' U2 R' D R U2 L' U' R2 F' L2 U F
> (Inverse scramble: F' U' L2 F R2 U L U2 R' D' R U2 F U2 R2 B' U2 D2 F' L2 D2)
> ...


 
Nice ending! I got 27 moves on this scramble with a slightly different start

Gus


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## irontwig (Sep 26, 2010)

Yay, I beat Guus! http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=312&format=official&metric=htm
Scramble: _ B' U B2 R2 D B2 L2 U2 D2 R2 D' L2 F2 B2 L U D' F L2 U D2 L2 U' F2 L' D' R2 F' B U_
Solution: _D2 B2 F' L F' U R L2 B' L U2 B2 F R2 F' U2 L2 F' D2 F L2 D' B U B' D B U2 D R_

D2 B2 [2x2x1a]
F' [2x2x1b]
L F' L' R [2x2x3]
R' L U R L2 B' L [EO]
U2 B2 U2 [F2L]
U2 F R2 F' U2 L2 F' D2 F L2 [LLEF (T-perm)]
D' B U B' D B U' [L3C (Niklas)]
U' D R [Pre-moves]

Last two pre-moves were found with a mediocre 2x2x3 beginning.


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## irontwig (Sep 26, 2010)

Yay, I beat Guus! http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=312&format=official&metric=htm
Scramble: _ B' U B2 R2 D B2 L2 U2 D2 R2 D' L2 F2 B2 L U D' F L2 U D2 L2 U' F2 L' D' R2 F' B U_
Solution: _D2 B2 F' L F' U R L2 B' L U2 B2 F R2 F' U2 L2 F' D2 F L2 D' B U B' D B U2 D R_ (30)

D2 B2 [2x2x1a]
F' [2x2x1b]
L F' L' R [2x2x3]
R' L U R L2 B' L [EO]
U2 B2 U2 [F2L]
U2 F R2 F' U2 L2 F' D2 F L2 [LLEF (T-perm)]
D' B U B' D B U' [L3C (Niklas)]
U' D R [Pre-moves]

Last two pre-moves were found with a mediocre 2x2x3 beginning.


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## palash_du (Sep 26, 2010)

irontwig said:


> Yay, I beat Guus! http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=312&format=official&metric=htm
> Scramble: _ B' U B2 R2 D B2 L2 U2 D2 R2 D' L2 F2 B2 L U D' F L2 U D2 L2 U' F2 L' D' R2 F' B U_
> Solution: _D2 B2 F' L F' U R L2 B' L U2 B2 F R2 F' U2 L2 F' D2 F L2 D' B U B' D B U2 D R_ (30)
> 
> ...


 
yeah and Okayama and me also. 
Can you describe your premoves in a bit detail?


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## guusrs (Sep 26, 2010)

irontwig said:


> Yay, I beat Guus! http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=312&format=official&metric=htm
> Scramble: _ B' U B2 R2 D B2 L2 U2 D2 R2 D' L2 F2 B2 L U D' F L2 U D2 L2 U' F2 L' D' R2 F' B U_
> Solution: _D2 B2 F' L F' U R L2 B' L U2 B2 F R2 F' U2 L2 F' D2 F L2 D' B U B' D B U2 D R_
> 
> ...


 
So why don't you participate in real comp?


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## irontwig (Sep 26, 2010)

palash_du said:


> yeah and Okayama and me also.
> Can you describe your premoves in a bit detail?


Pseudo-blocks with pre-moves _D R_:
L' B U F' R [2x2x2]
D F' D F D [2x2x3]
But then I find better stuff with the same pre-moves+U' when finishing F2L.



guusrs said:


> So why don't you participate in real comp?


I wish I could have come to Swedish Open, but I had some stuff I had to take care of. I'll try to get to Swedish Cubeday.


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## FMC (Sep 29, 2010)

hello,
im new to FMC,Im interested in learning two-gen method,
please explain the main ideas or give me some links from which i can learn.
[charles tsai's site:http://www.geocities.com/c_w_tsai/cube/
is not working  ]
thanks in advance


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## RCTACameron (Sep 29, 2010)

FMC said:


> hello,
> im new to FMC,Im interested in learning two-gen method,
> please explain the main ideas or give me some links from which i can learn.
> [charles tsai's site:http://www.geocities.com/c_w_tsai/cube/
> ...



For FMC, probably start off with blockbuilding - 2x2x2 block, make that into a 2x2x3 block, finish F2L and do LL normally. I'm new to FMC, and that's how I do it.  Not sure about the 2-gen method, though...


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## FMC (Sep 29, 2010)

RCTACameron said:


> For FMC, probably start off with blockbuilding - 2x2x2 block, make that into a 2x2x3 block, finish F2L and do LL normally


I know these basic ideas,i want to learn something more!


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## PalashD (Sep 29, 2010)

Can someone explain th domino method. I know that first the cube is set into a subgroup then solved but how does it really work?


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## RCTACameron (Sep 29, 2010)

FMC said:


> I know these basic ideas,i want to learn something more!


 
From what I've seen, you could learn stuff like triple x-cross and NISS (whatever that is.) Also, you could do stuff like forced OLL skips.


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## FMC (Sep 29, 2010)

RCTACameron said:


> From what I've seen, you could learn stuff like triple x-cross and NISS (whatever that is.) Also, you could do stuff like forced OLL skips.


i know these ideas as well,i have gone through the threads on FMC(completely!)
i often get solves between 35-40 moves,may be i must practice more to get decent
solves.but i desperately need two gen method(this is not just for FMC)


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## Tim Major (Sep 29, 2010)

Try to stay away from OLL and PLL as these generally aren't very efficient. Try to reduce to 3 corners, then find an insertion earlier in the solve, while trying to find one that will cancel.
http://speedcubing.com/chris/bhcorners.html
May help.
If you want any examples, look at some sub 30 solutions. Most use insertions 
NISS is solving until you get stuck, then using the inverse of those solving moves, as premoves to the inverse scramble. You can switch to and fro whenever you get stuck, though it's a little time consuming, and will not always help.
Have a look here http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...s-and-Techniques&p=15792&viewfull=1#post15792
AvG goes into more detail, and explains simpler. I'm getting off now, so I had no time to really get into explaining full techniques, but I would usually try to block build F2L -1 pair, then reduce it to 3 corners or edges, then use an insertion.
Hope this helps


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## RCTACameron (Sep 29, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Try to stay away from OLL and PLL as these generally aren't very efficient.



When I do FMC, I will try... but I love them so much!


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Oct 6, 2010)

B' L' R2 B2 D2 L F U' L2 R' B R2 B2 D2 R2 L' B F' D2 U2 L R2 U F U'

One of the weirdest scrambles I've ever had xD

My first start was B' L F2 which looks interesting but in the end is utterly useless.

Then I found F' L2 F B' L R' F2 R F, a 9 move pseudo-double-x-cross. I could have ended it with F2, but that caused the last 4 pieces of the F2L to all be stuck in a wrong slot. With some random blockbuilding and fiddling with different endings I found a fortunate LL, resulting in a 29-mover.

So, with a premove F:

F' L2 F B' L R' F2 R F
F U' B U B' R2 F'
F' U2 F U F' U' F
U2 F' U2 F U F' U F
F

With a crapload of cancellations.

F' L2 F B' L R' F2 R F2 U' B U B' R2 F2 U2 F U F' U' F U2 F' U2 F U F' U F2

Last 15 moves are <F,U> xD


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## guusrs (Oct 6, 2010)

Hi Guys,

Here's the FMC scramble @ Euro 2010

L D2 B' D2 B R' B' U B L B L2 B2 U2 F2 U R2 D' B2 D' B2 

Winning solve Grzegorz Luczyna: 


Spoiler



X Y2 L2 D F' R L2 D' R' U' R D2 R' U' B2 R2 B2 L2 U' R' U L U' L' R U2 L' U' (26)
ZZ-solve with corner insertion
First 12 moves are edge orrientation
Then 4 moves block building
Finishing with alignment of blocks and a corner insertion



Gus


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## Lucas Garron (Oct 7, 2010)

guusrs said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Here's the FMC scramble @ Euro 2010
> 
> ...


 
Me (Lucas Garron), 4th place:


Spoiler



z2 B' U2 B2' R2' L D //2x2x2
B2 L B2 L B L F' L' B2 L F //2x2x3 + EO + insertion
B' U2 B U B2' U B' //Skeleton L' D' L U2 L' D L
//3-cycle


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## guusrs (Oct 7, 2010)

trying-to-speedcube... said:


> B' L' R2 B2 D2 L F U' L2 R' B R2 B2 D2 R2 L' B F' D2 U2 L R2 U F U'
> 
> One of the weirdest scrambles I've ever had xD
> 
> ...


 

Yeah, strange scramble, but anyhow it turned out right for me, got this in ±40 min:

pseudo 2x2x3: B' R U2 L D (5)
F2L and LL corners (lucky!): D' R D B' R2 B' U R2 U2 B U B' R2 D' (17)
To solve edges @ beginning insert R2 B' F D2 F' B, 2 moves cancel (*21*) ;-)

Gus


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## PalashD (Oct 8, 2010)

trying-to-speedcube... said:


> B' L' R2 B2 D2 L F U' L2 R' B R2 B2 D2 R2 L' B F' D2 U2 L R2 U F U'
> 
> One of the weirdest scrambles I've ever had xD
> 
> ...


 
hey you did not use D at all!! nice!!


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## Goater (Oct 8, 2010)

guusrs said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Here's the FMC scramble @ Euro 2010
> 
> ...



It's rather:
EO: x y2 L2 D F'
EOLine: R L2 D #
2x2x3: R' U2 B2 R2 B2
All but 3 corners: L2 U' R' U L U' L' R U2 L' U'
3 corners: [D2, R' U' R] at # (cancels 4 moves)


And your solution, Gus?


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## kidrock2007 (Oct 9, 2010)

i want know scramble of WCA (FMC) ever year (sorry i 'm vietnamese)


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## Goater (Oct 10, 2010)

Regarding to:


okayama said:


> Scramble: U F2 D B2 U' L2 B2 L2 D2 R2 U2 L F L B' U2 F' L2 U' R' U
> 
> Not so hard scramble, but I failed in time-scheduling (no time to search a good insertion). :fp
> 25 moves 3-corners-left skeleton.


and:


guusrs said:


> Hi Tomoaki,
> 
> The best that came up to me within the hour was:
> D B D' R2 L2 U F' U' R L B' D2 L U' L' D2 L U L R F2 L' D' F L' F2 L D' F' (*29*)
> ...


 
Gus... I love your skeletons and insertions, but this time insertions are really weak. Why didn't you end up with pairs-3-cycle?
I.e. like this (found almost linear on your skeleton): F' R2 D [R' D2 R, u] D' R2 F


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## kinch2002 (Oct 10, 2010)

This is the Asian Champs scramble: U F2 D B2 U' L2 B2 L2 D2 R2 U2 L F L B' U2 F' L2 U' R' U
I did an almost linear solution quickly and it wasn't bad considering, and I like the ending (even though it's not great) so I thought I'd post it. I went back after a few moves to do a premove, and then went linear. Can't be bothered to look for a better solution right now 

Premove: R2
2x2x2: F2 D2 F R B2 D' (The B2 preserves the pair) [6]
2x2x3: R2 B2 R [9]
F2L-1: U B' L U L' [14]
F2L and EO (i.e. ZBF2L I guess!): U' R' U' R B U B' R' U' R [24]
Finish: R U' L' U B2 U B2 U' B2 L R' [34]
Premove cancels off, so it's 34 moves
This is actually the same alg as I finished with in the weekly comp last week (40), it's just one that I happen to know for LL.


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## Goater (Oct 10, 2010)

kinch2002 said:


> This is the Asian Champs scramble: U F2 D B2 U' L2 B2 L2 D2 R2 U2 L F L B' U2 F' L2 U' R' U


 
My solutions:

Backup (after ~20 minutes): F' U L' R B' D2 L R D L' D L2 F2 L' F2 R2 U' L U R2 U' R U2 L' U' R' U L U' L' (30 HTM)
EO: F' U L' R B' (5)
Some blocks: D2 L R D L' D (11)
More blocks: L2 F2 L' F2 (15)
All but 3 corners: # U' L R U2 L' U' R' U L U' L' (26)
Corners: R2 U' L U R2 U' L' U at # (4 moves canceled)


And after 45 minutes: F' U L' R B L2 B2 L' R D' L2 D R2 L F2 R L' U2 D' L' F2 D R F2 L' (25 HTM)
EO: F' U L' R B (5)
All but 3 corners and 3 edges: L2 B2 L' # D' L F2 D R F2 L' (15)
Corners: R D' L2 D R' $ D' L2 D at # (3 moves canceled)
Edges: R' L F2 R L' U2 at $ (1 move canceled)


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## guusrs (Oct 10, 2010)

Goater said:


> Gus... I love your skeletons and insertions, but this time insertions are really weak. Why didn't you end up with pairs-3-cycle?
> I.e. like this (found almost linear on your skeleton): F' R2 D [R' D2 R, u] D' R2 F




Yeah, I thougt I could do insertions in 11 - 13 moves (but it ended up in 15) and skipped other options too quick, after the hour I als found R D' R' D B' D B D B' D2 B (25 moves total) to end with.

Gus


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## PalashD (Oct 11, 2010)

Goater said:


> My solutions:
> 
> Backup (after ~20 minutes): F' U L' R B' D2 L R D L' D L2 F2 L' F2 R2 U' L U R2 U' R U2 L' U' R' U L U' L' (30 HTM)
> EO: F' U L' R B' (5)
> ...


 
Hey can you give the complete time line of your solve? I mean how quickly can you do your solutions. I can get 30-40 moves but never in an hour. I recently went to a competition and could only just figure out the skeleton at the end of 40 minutes. I panicked and screwed up the solve.

@Gus
Can you tell how you schedule your solves? How much time do you take to get your "awesome" skeletons?


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## guusrs (Oct 11, 2010)

PalashD said:


> @Gus
> Can you tell how you schedule your solves? How much time do you take to get your "awesome" skeletons?


 
No, it's a secret 


Spoiler



actually it's random, but I write the first solve down as a backup solve


Gus


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## vcuber13 (Oct 11, 2010)

are ms 1 or 2 moves?


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## irontwig (Oct 11, 2010)

Slice moves are counted as two moves, if that's what you mean.


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## guusrs (Oct 11, 2010)

Goater said:


> scramble: L D2 B' D2 B R' B' U B L B L2 B2 U2 F2 U R2 D' B2 D' B2
> 
> It's rather:
> EO: x y2 L2 D F'
> ...



So someone is interested in my backup solution?
Here it is: L D B2 D' B L' B' U B' F U F' D' F U' F' D R F' L' F R' F' L R' D R D' F' U F2 U2 R U R' (35)

explanation:
2x2x3: L D B2 D' B L' B' U B'
switch to inverse scramble with premoves [B U' B L B' D B2 D' L']: 
F2l-1: R U' R' U2 F2 U (6+9)
all BUT 4 corners: F D R' D' R F (12+9)
last 4 corners: F' L' F R F' L F R' + D' F U F' D F U' F' (26+9)
pre-move correction: B U' B L B' D B2 D' L'
got this in ±10 min but wrote down the last corner cycles at the last 5 minutes of the hour. 

Now I look at the scramble again and found (in another 20 minutes):
F' U' F U L U L' U' L R U' R U R' U2 R' B' L B2 D R D' L' D R' D' F' R'
on inverse scramble with pre-move L': 
2x2x3: R F.L B2 L' B (6)
F2l-1: R U2 R U' R' U R' (13) 
F2L: L' U L U' (17)
ELL: L' U' F' U F L (23)
pre-move correction: L' (22)
at * insert: [D R D',L] 2 moves cancel (28)

Gus


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## Goater (Oct 11, 2010)

guusrs said:


> So someone is interested in my backup solution?
> Here it is: L D B2 D' B L' B' U B' F U F' D' F U' F' D R F' L' F R' F' L R' D R D' F' U F2 U2 R U R' (35)
> 
> explanation:
> ...


 
I've also looked at the scramble again and also found 22 + 8 - 2 solution (in another 20 minutes) 
EO: z B D R' U' F (5)
Something: U' L' U' L' U (10)
Something more: R' D' L' D' # L (15)
All but 3 corneres: R2 D2 R D R' D R (22)
Corners: [D2, R' U' R] at # (28)

However... I know, Gus, that you don't like my beginning-with-EO solutions, do you?


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## Faz (Oct 12, 2010)

@ AC scramble
I inverted the scramble, and got this solution, which I inverted afterwards. Tim Major wanted me to post this.

2x2x3: z L R2 U' B' U2 B' D' F B' U B (11)
Finish F2L: U' F U' F' R2 D R D' R U' F2 U (23)
Then the OLL which was 9 moves.


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## undick (Oct 13, 2010)

*Asian Champs 2010*

Scramble : U F2 D B2 U' L2 B2 L2 D2 R2 U2 L F L B' U2 F' L2 U' R' U

Solution : F' R2 D2 R2 D2 L' B' R D R U' F2 U F L' F L' F L' F' L2 F2 R F' L F R' L (28 moves)

2x2x3 : F' R2 D2 R2 D2 L' B' R D R (10/10)
Leave 3 Corner : U' F2 U F L' F L' F L' F' L2 *F L *** F* L (15/25)

Insert at * : *L' F* R F' L F R' *F'* (3/28) cancel 5 moves

My solution. No backup solution. I found this in 40-45 minutes. 
Nice week for me, i also got 26 moves on fmc.mustcube this week


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## guusrs (Oct 13, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> @ AC scramble
> I inverted the scramble, and got this solution, which I inverted afterwards. Tim Major wanted me to post this.
> 
> 2x2x3: z L R2 U' B' U2 B' D' F B' U B (11)
> ...



Hi Faz,

Congratz with you FMC-result!
Do you know about insertions? Because you could have saved a couple of moves by that! After some exercise you could do that in 5 min or less.

Gus


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## Faz (Oct 14, 2010)

Yeah, I understand insertions, but can you show me the situation here where I would use one?


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## Yes We Can! (Oct 14, 2010)

My solve at European Championship 2010:

Scramble: L D2 B' D2 B R' B' U B L B L2 B2 U2 F2 U R2 D' B2 D' B2 

Solve: z2 x U2 R U L R U' L2
x R F' R2 U F R2
U y' L U L' U' F' U F
R U2 R' U R U' R' U' R' F R
F U' L R' F2 L' R U' F2


Click to view solution

That's 41 moves in total. Good for me 
I want sub-40 :/


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## irontwig (Oct 14, 2010)

There's a 27 move solution without insertions hidden in Faz's.
Hint:


Spoiler



Continue differently after the third pair


Another hint:


Spoiler



Triple x-cross or pseudo-2x2x3+2x2x1?


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## PalashD (Oct 15, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> Yeah, I understand insertions, but can you show me the situation here where I would use one?


Insertions: (This might be the most advanced technique. It helps if you know something about solving a cube blindfolded.)
Sometimes it is better to do a 3-cycle of edges or corners in the middle of the solve than at the end. A 3-cycle of edges takes 9 moves when they are in the same layer (PLL) and even more when they are not. But if they are on the same slice it can often be done in 6 moves
Insertions example:
Scramble: L' B' L2 F B U R' B D' L2 B U' B2 U L U2 D2 L
Cross (9): R2 U' R' B' L U L' D' U2
First 2 Pairs (3): B2 L B2
3rd Pair (4): D F D F'
Last 5 corners (7): D2 L' D L D2 L' D'
As you can see, all corners are done and there are 5 edges that need to be cycled. Put numbered stickers on the first color of the following pieces
1 = yellow-red
2 = yellow-blue
3 = yellow-green
4 = yellow-orange
5 = green-orange
This list is the order of the cycle. Piece 1 goes to the location of piece 2, 2->3, 3-> 4, 4-> 5 and 5-> 1.
After that, do the scramble on a solved cube that has the stickers on it. Perform your solve and look for a point where 3 continuously numbered stickers are on the same slice or on the same face (permutation) and all stickers are on the same or opposite faces (orientation). If you find such a moment you can perform an algorithm that cycles these pieces (hopefully you even get cancellations at the beginning or end).
If you look carefully you can see that after the first six moves (R2 U' R' B' L U) pieces 1, 2 and 3 are in the S-slice with the correct orientation. They can be cycled in 6 moves (D2 F B' L2 F' B) so now the solution becomes
Cross Part 1 (6): R2 U' R' B' L U
Edge-Cycle insertion 1 (6): D2 F B' L2 F' B
Cross Part 2 (3): L' D' U2
First 2 Pairs (3): B2 L B2
3rd Pair (4): D F D F'
Last 5 corners (7): D2 L' D L D2 L' D'
Now only pieces 3, 4 and 5 are wrong.
A good moment to insert a cycle that solves pieces 3, 4 and 5 is just before the "Last 5 corners" because at that moment pieces 3, 4 and 5 are all on D-face with the correct orientation. They can be cycled in 9 moves (B2 D' L R' B2 R L' D' B2) so the final solution becomes
Cross Part 1 (6): R2 U' R' B' L U
Edge-Cycle insertion 1 (6): D2 F B' L2 F' B
Cross Part 2 (3): L' D' U2
First 2 Pairs (3): B2 L B2
3rd Pair (4): D F D F'
Edge-Cycle inserstion 2 (9): B2 D' L R' B2 R L' D' B2
Last 5 corners (7): D2 L' D L D2 L' D'


from this http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques thread.


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## guusrs (Oct 15, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> Yeah, I understand insertions, but can you show me the situation here where I would use one?


 
Uhm, sorry, I was wrong, I thought you said *P*LL instead of *O*LL and that should mean you ended up with a corner- or edge 3-cycle.
But to illustrate: you could replace your last 3 moves F2L with F2 U L' U' L F2 remaining a corner-3-cycle. Did you try that? It could give some cancellations, 1 till 5 moves or even more and end up with probably less than 32 moves. 
I tried this and got:



Spoiler



only 1 move cancellation this time, so ended up in 33 moves ;-(



Gus


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## Weston (Oct 17, 2010)

Second serious FMC ever. FMC is pretty fun 

Scramble B2 U' L2 D' F2 B' R' F' L2 F R U2 F2 U2 F' U' L F L' D' F2 R2 F L' F'

2x2: U' D' F' U' 
2 more slots : B2 L' D2 L' D2 B L *U B2 U'
LS + EP : B D B D' B D B D'
Insert L'BLF2L'B'LF2 at *

Stuff cancels and I got

U' D' F' U' B2 L' D2 L' D2 B2 L F2 L'B' L F2 U B2 U' B D B D' B D B D' (27)


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## guusrs (Oct 17, 2010)

Yesterdays Dutch Open FMC scramble:

L2 R2 U' F2 L2 U2 F2 D L R' D' L2 D B2 U' F' R' U2 L U 

results:


Spoiler



Erik Akkersdijk 26 moves, build a nice f2l with 3 corners remaining: F L B2 F D B2 R2 B' D2 (2x2x3) F L' F2 U' F' U L' F2 L F (19). Did a non-optimal insertion, actually, it was the first insertion he ever did!. Could have been 25 if he knew, but he is the only person ever with two sub-27 results!
Sebastian Auroux, 30 moves, forced LL skip, started with someting U R2 L B2 D2 D' F' L' F
Maarten Smit, 31 moves, did premoves [R2 F2 B2] and built a very short 2x2x3 block: F2 D2 R' D' L B' (6+3) and continued with f2l: R2 U2 R U2 R2 (11+3) 
Me: got lost in very promising inverse scramble ([F2] F2, note: moves between [] means pre-moves) I think I wanted a sub-27 (my PB) too much. and wrote down backup solution wrong!


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## okayama (Oct 18, 2010)

guusrs said:


> Yesterdays Dutch Open FMC scramble:
> 
> L2 R2 U' F2 L2 U2 F2 D L R' D' L2 D B2 U' F' R' U2 L U
> 
> ...


 

Congrats Erik for your awesome record!

Looks nice scramble, but I couldn't find such a decent solution. 

Solution 1: F2 L' D' B R' F R' B' F D B' D F D' B D' L D' L' R' U2 R D2 R' U2 R L2 U R2 F2 (30 HTM)

NISS solve.

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L2 U R2 F2

2x2x2 block: F2 L'
More 2x2x1 block: D' B R'
F2L minus 1 slot: F R' B' F2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F2 B R F' R B' D L' F2

F2L minus 1 slot: F2 R2 U' L2 *
Orient edges: D2 L D L'
All but 3 corners: D B' D F' D' B D' F
Correction: F2 B R F' R B' D L' F2

Insert at *: R' U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2


Solution 2: F2 L' D' L B' L R' F R2 L' U R U' L U R2 U2 L U' F' U2 F U L' B L2 B2 D' L2 (29 HTM)

Pre-scramble: B L2 B2 D' L2

2x2x3 block: F2 L' D' L B' L
F2L minus 1 slot: R' F R
Orient edges: R * U R'
All but 3 corners: U2 L U' F' U2 F U L'
Correction: B L2 B2 D' L2

Insert at *: L' U R U' L U R' U'


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## okayama (Oct 19, 2010)

Cride5 said:


> I decided to try the 'hardest' scramble on cube20.org
> 
> The scramble is: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
> 
> ...



I had a time to try it, and got 34 moves.
Interesting. I hope other FMC guys would try it.


Spoiler



Solution: L F D2 U' B L U' R2 U2 R' U D2 L' B U' L' U B D' L U' L' D L U B L' B' L' B2 L' B L2 D' (34 HTM)

Pre-scramble: D'

2x2x1 block: L F D2 U' B L
2x2x3 block: U' R2 U2 R' U D2
Orient edges: L' B U' L' U
All but 3 corners: B * L B L' B' L' B2 L' B L2
Correction: D'
Insert at *: D' L U' L' D L U L'

Hard scramble for me, too. Any 1-move makes no c/e pair (as you pointed out), all edges are wrongly oriented, so I have no clue where to start.


Another try, the same start as above:

Pre-scramble: B2 D'

1st 2x2x1 block: L F D2 U' B L
2nd 2x2x1 block: U' R' U2 R2
Expand to 3x2x1: F'
F2L minus 1 slot: U' R U2 D2

but I couldn't find a good continuation.



@Conrad
I found that your first solution could be shortened to 32 HTM. 


Spoiler



EO: F R L B' U' D' F (7)
Line+Pair: * U' R' U' (3/10)
RH Side: D2 R2 L D2 R (5/15)
F2L-1 + 1x2x2: D' L D L' D2 (5/20)
4-corners: L D + L D' (4/24)

Insert at *: R' D2 R U' R' D2 R U (6 moves cancel)
Insert at +: B R' B' L B R B' L' (2 moves cancel)


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## PalashD (Oct 21, 2010)

okayama said:


> I had a time to try it, and got 34 moves.
> Interesting. I hope other FMC guys would try it.
> 
> 
> ...


 

I also tried some stupid block building got the following bad skeleton in 22 moves
R' F2 U' L' B2 D(2x2x1)
F L F U' B(2x2x2)
F(2x2x1)
L R F' R' L D2 L
B D B'
2 misoriented corners and a parity remains so it is no good.


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## okayama (Oct 21, 2010)

PalashD said:


> I also tried some stupid block building got the following bad skeleton in 22 moves
> R' F2 U' L' B2 D(2x2x1)
> F L F U' B(2x2x2)
> F(2x2x1)
> ...


 
Some of my tries with your start:


Spoiler



R' F2 U' L' B2 D(2x2x1)
F L F U' B(2x2x2)
F(2x2x1)
L2 F R' D' R2 F' R' L(F2L minus 1 slot)
D' B D B'(Orient edges)
D2 R' D L' D' L R(All but 3 corners)

Hmm. 31 HTM skeleton is also not so good...

Next try:

Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
Solution: R' F2 R' D2 R U R' D2 R2 B L D F U' B U F2 U' R' U R2 F2 D' F D2 L D' L' F D' F' D (32 HTM)

Two c/e pairs: R' F2 (same as yours)
1st 2x2x1 block: U + R B L
2nd 2x2x1 block: D F' U'
Make 2x2x3 block: B * R' U R2
F2L minus 1 slot: F2 D' F D2 L D' L'
All but 4 corners: F D' F' D

Insert at *: B' U F2 U' B U F2 U'
Insert at +: U' R' D2 R U R' D2 R

32 moves again, still not Sub 30. Hard scramble!


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## eastamazonantidote (Oct 22, 2010)

Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
Start (Leaving 6 corners): B' R' D' L' F' U B F2 R' F2 R2 D2 R2 U R2 D2 F2 D2 F2 U (21)



Spoiler



EO: B' R' D' L' F' U B (7)
Separate U/D edges into U/D layers: F2 R' (2)
Solve E slice: F2 R2 (2)
Leave 6 corners: D2 R2 U R2 D2 F2 D2 F2 U (21)
I'm horrible with insertions, so I imagine there's a decent ending here, but here's a nice skeleton to work off of. You can even shorten it by 1 move if you leave all the corners, but I thought 6 was better than 8.



EDIT: This is that "hardest scramble"


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## PalashD (Oct 22, 2010)

okayama said:


> Some of my tries with your start:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 
another bad skeleton (it is the same but a bit improved this time)
premove: L
R' F2 U' L' B2 D(2X2X1)
LFU'B(2X2X2)
LF2L'D2L'(2X2X3)
FLDL'FD2F'D2FD2F'(EO+F2L-1)


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## Cubenovice (Oct 23, 2010)

My solution to weekly 43 = 39 HTM

I think my block building is improving but I really do not get how you guys get to the "leaves 3 corners stage" so I had to sneak in a PLL skip to get this result...

Feel free to comment. 

R F R D R D 2x2x2 * 6/6*
F U2 R F2 U F2 2x2x3 *6/12*
R' F B' R' B *F' * EO 1st part *6/18*
* F'* U' F EO 2nd part * 3/21*
R2 U' R2 U *R* 3rd F2L slot *5/26*
*R* U' R' U2 R U' R' F2L * 7/33*
U' pre- AUF  *1/34*
R U R' U R U2 R' One Sune to finish them all *7/41*
* 2 moves* cancelled = 39

R F R D R D F U2 R F2 U F2 R' F B' R' B *F2* U' F R2 U' R2 U *R2* U' R' U2 R U' R' U' R U R' U R U2 R'


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## irontwig (Oct 23, 2010)

Leaving three corners is pretty tricky, I find it easier to leave five corners.


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## Cride5 (Oct 23, 2010)

Cride5 said:


> I decided to try the 'hardest' scramble on cube20.org
> 
> The scramble is: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2


Nice to see folks trying out this scramble. I find it really interesting that humans find it difficult as well. Asside from lack of oriented edges, I wonder if there are any other properties of this scramble which make it difficult? Distance of each piece from its neighbours perhaps... food for thought...

@okayama some great solutions from you - as always. Nice find on the 2-insertion finish on my original attempt. I think I should pay more attention to that approach in future.



eastamazonantidote said:


> Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
> Start (Leaving 6 corners): B' R' D' L' F' U B F2 R' F2 R2 D2 R2 U R2 D2 F2 D2 F2 U (21)
> EDIT: This is that "hardest scramble"


If it were two 3-cycles then it would be solvable with two easy insertions. Unfortunately this isn't, so if using only corner 3-cycles you would need at least three (probably too many). Finishing with 4 or 5 corners is much better because it (almost) guarantees that at most two insertions are needed. I say almost because there's always the nasty case of corners twisted in place.


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## guusrs (Oct 23, 2010)

In the hour I got this for the "hardest" scramble (F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2):

pre-moves [D2 U' F']
2x2x3: U' L R' F D2 R' B R2 D' L B U' (12+3)
F2L: L' B D2 B' D2 (17+3)
LL: D' L' B' L D2 R2 U2 F' U2 R2 D' L' (28+3)
pre-move correction: D2 U' F' (*31*)

pfff, still no sub 30!


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## PalashD (Oct 24, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> My solution to weekly 43 = 39 HTM
> 
> I think my block building is improving but I really do not get how you guys get to the "leaves 3 corners stage" so I had to sneak in a PLL skip to get this result...
> 
> ...


 
Just try to leave as little as possible while building a skeleton. Leaving just 3 corners is the best because you will have to do only one insertion. Which is usually 8 moves for corners and 6/10 moves for edges. So the less you leave the lesser number of insertions you have to do. If you dont know commutators there is a BH tutorial by Byu in the tutorials sections. Learn from it.


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## Tim Major (Oct 27, 2010)

Weekly 43: 1. U2 F R D' F' L2 U R U' L D' L2 F' R2 D F L D'
NISS solve.
Normal Scramble: R' D F' L' F' L R2 F2 R' U' B U B' U2 F U F (17)
Apply F' U' F' U2 B U' B' U R F2 R2 L' F L F D' R as premoves to inverse.
Inverse scramble: L' U L
Now I can either do a 3 edge cycle, then a 3 corner cycle, so I'd be finished with 20 move skeleton. However, I suck at edge insertions, so instead I reduced to 5 corners: U F U' F' 
Now I only had a few minutes left (5~) so I felt I didn't have time to look for two insertions. So instead, I just did a 3 corner cycle to make it just 3 corners left. I made sure to do it so there were moves cancelled: F' D' F U F' D F
So my skeleton was (inverse scramble): L' U L U F U' *F' F'* D' F U F' D *F F'* U' F' U2 B U' B' U R *F2 ** R2 L' F L F D' R
Insert at *: *F* D' F' U2 F D F' U2
4 moves cancelled.
Final solution:
R' D F' L' F' L R2 U2 F D' F' U2 F D F R' U' B U B' U2 F U D' F U' F' D F2 U F' U' L' U' L 35 HTM
Would a 3 edge cycle, and a 3 corner cycle be more efficient, if used after the initial 20 moves? I just suck at edge insertions, so I decided to just get a corner insertion, and a corner comm that cancelled. I'm guessing there was probably a better insertion, and also, something better instead of the linear corner comm.


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## rahulkadukar (Oct 27, 2010)

I had a doubt is a cube rotation counted as a move or not, also are we even allowed to turn the cube ?


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## PalashD (Oct 27, 2010)

E1a) The maximum length of a solution is 80 (moves and rotations).
E2d) The metric to measure the length of the solution, is Half Turn Metric.

Half Turn Metric (HTM) is defined as:

* 12a17) Each move of the categories Face Moves and Double Outer Slice Moves is counted as 1 move.
* 12a18) Each move of the categories Inner Slice Moves and Middle Slice Moves is counted as 2 moves.
* 12a19) Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.

But it is better to do the solve without cube rotations. It is easier to see insertions and cancellations.


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## aronpm (Oct 27, 2010)

rahulkadukar said:


> I had a doubt is a cube rotation counted as a move or not, also are we even allowed to turn the cube ?


 
Rotations do not count as a move. Some people choose to write their solutions without rotations but it doesn't matter either way.


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## Yes We Can! (Oct 30, 2010)

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to say: don't try the scramble if you haven't done weekly comp-44 yet and wish to still do it.



Spoiler



Scramble: L' R2 B F L D' R2 F L B' D2 R2 B L U F D2 F'
Solve: B' D2 L2 F' L F L2 U2 z2 U2 R2 F2 y U2 F' U' R U R2 F' R F' R U B U' B' U' L U2 R' U R U2 R' L' U2

B' D2 L2 F' L F L2 U2 (2x2x2) [8/8]
z2 U2 R2 F2 (2x2x3 + DF edge) [3/11]
y U2 F' U' R U R2 F' R F' (finish F2L) [9/20]
R U B U' B' *R'* (OLL) [5/25]
*R* U' L U2 R' U R U2 R' L' U2 (PLL) [10/35]
The bold moves cancel.



Could anyone experienced please say what could be done better? I know, the 2x2x2 block was not good but it made a 2x3x3 very easy.


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## guusrs (Oct 30, 2010)

Yes said:


> Scramble: L' R2 B F L D' R2 F L B' D2 R2 B L U F D2 F'
> Solve: B' D2 L2 F' L F L2 U2 z2 U2 R2 F2 y U2 F' U' R U R2 F' R F' R U B U' B' U' L U2 R' U R U2 R' L' U2
> 
> B' D2 L2 F' L F L2 U2 (2x2x2) [8/8]
> ...


 

At first sight I recognized this as this' weeks competition (2010-44) scramble .
So I'm not going to tell you

Gus


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## Yes We Can! (Oct 30, 2010)

Hm, you're right. I should have waited to ask until the competition is over. THANKS j´ey
I now made it clear in my post that it's the weeklycomp-44 scramble.


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## okayama (Nov 1, 2010)

Yes said:


> EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to say: don't try the scramble if you haven't done weekly comp-44 yet and wish to still do it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After the F2L, you can construct a shorter LL as follows.

Setup: R' U
Pair 3-cycle: L' F' L U L' F L U'
Solve all: R U

results in 32 moves.


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## mrCage (Nov 2, 2010)

okayama said:


> After the F2L, you can construct a shorter LL as follows.
> 
> Setup: R' U
> Pair 3-cycle: L' F' L U L' F L U'
> ...


 
That LL is optimal according to the cube explorer (which gave other/alternative solution ...)

Per


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## Cubenovice (Nov 5, 2010)

Weekly 44 scramble

L' R2 B F L D' R2 F L B' D2 R2 B L U F D2 F'

R' F R L' D2 B' 2x2x2 6 - *6*
L B L2 B2 U B U' 2x2x3 7 - *13*
Instead of doing EO I saw the following opportunity to almost finish F2L:
zy' U' R' B U B' F2L - 1 edge 5 - *18*
But how to turn this into a good ending?

Fixing the last slot with LL edges oriented takes me about 7 moves, but then I still need Asune and a G-perm so I end up around 45 HTM.

Can you please give me some pointers or examples on how to finish this "F2L - 1edge" in a proper way?


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## okayama (Nov 5, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> Weekly 44 scramble
> 
> L' R2 B F L D' R2 F L B' D2 R2 B L U F D2 F'
> 
> ...



Here is your start, without cube-rotation:

2x2x2 block: R' F R L' D2 B'
2x2x3 block: L B L2 B2 U B U'
F2L minus 1 slot: L' F' U L U'

Consider the inverse scramble with the following pre-scramble.

Turn pre-scramble: U L' U' F L U B' U' B2 L2 B' L' B D2 L R' F' R (inverse of your start)
Inverse scramble: F D2 F' U' L' B' R2 D2 B L' F' R2 D L' F' B' R2 L

F2L minus 1 slot: (done)
Orient edges + pair: L F L' F'
Finish F2L: L2 D' L2 D
OLL: U L2 U2 L' U2 L' U2 L2 U

Inverse of the moves above is what you want.

(Final solution)
2x2x2 block: R' F R L' D2 B'
2x2x3 block: L B L2 B2 U B U'
F2L minus 1 slot: L' F' U L U'
Solve all: U' L2 U2 L U2 L U2 L2 U' D' L2 D L2 F L F' L'

results in 34 moves. This technique is what is called "NISS".


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## irontwig (Nov 5, 2010)

okayama said:


> After the F2L, you can construct a shorter LL as follows.
> 
> Setup: R' U
> Pair 3-cycle: L' F' L U L' F L U'
> ...


 
...Or if you suck at at block-cycles like me:
R U R2 F.R F2 U F (LLEF)
At dot: F' R' B' R F R' B R


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 6, 2010)

From Tomoaki's explanation of his FMC #317 solution:

_Finish F2L: D' L D L'
All but 3 corners: U * F L F' L' U' F'
Correction: B2

Insert at *: U' L D' L' U L D L' (8 moves cancel!!)_

Welcome to the "free insertion club," Tomoaki!

I call an insertion that doesn't increase the total number of moves of a solution as a free insertion.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 6, 2010)

Thank you Okayama-san!

Not only have you nicely finshed my F2L, you have given a very clear example of NISS too.
At first sight the inverted moves didn't seem to give a fundamentally different cube but the result was indeed much better.

But isn't this solution quite lucky with the PLL skip?
I understand that exploring more endings gives a larger chance of a skip but still...


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## okayama (Nov 7, 2010)

cuBerBruce said:


> Welcome to the "free insertion club," Tomoaki!
> 
> I call an insertion that doesn't increase the total number of moves of a solution as a free insertion.



Wow thanks. Of course that was not intended, but just happened. 
I'm curious about other membes of the club (and their insertion).

FYI, I once got a 9-moves cancellation at Weekly competition 2010-21.



Cubenovice said:


> Thank you Okayama-san!
> 
> Not only have you nicely finshed my F2L, you have given a very clear example of NISS too.
> At first sight the inverted moves didn't seem to give a fundamentally different cube but the result was indeed much better.
> ...



Yes, just lucky. I quote some comments for NISS in this thread:



guusrs said:


> Kryptonite said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, while we're on the subject, how do you know when NISS will yield good results? ...(snip)... Any general guidelines for when to try a switch?
> ...





Stini said:


> As far as I know, there's really no guarantee that NISS will help you, so I find that you should avoid overusing it.


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 7, 2010)

okayama said:


> Wow thanks. Of course that was not intended, but just happened.
> I'm curious about other membes of the club (and their insertion).
> 
> FYI, I once got a 9-moves cancellation at Weekly competition 2010-21.



Wow! That was a "better than free" insertion in Weekly Comp 2010-21. I haven't followed the weekly comp much lately, so I wasn't aware that you were already in the free insertion club.

I'm not aware of anyone besides the two of us who are members of the free insertion club. My free insertion was in Fewest Moves Challenge #224, after which I started this thread in the Yahoo FMC group.


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## Tim Major (Nov 7, 2010)

okayama said:


> FYI, I once got a 9-moves cancellation at Weekly competition 2010-21.


http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fewestmoveschallenge/message/1970
hehe. Amazing result


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## hello1215 (Nov 7, 2010)

Can someone give me an example of a corner commutator, tell me how to cancel moves in a solve with a commutor, and how to find them easeliy?


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## irontwig (Nov 7, 2010)

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=454750&viewfull=1#post454750


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## Faz (Nov 18, 2010)

I suck at FMC


D2 L F R D2 R2 U2 R' F2 D' F' U' F B' D R' D2 U F' B' R B U L U' 

F’ R’ L2 B2 D’ L’ D L D2 L’ D F’ L F L2 U’ R U L2 U’ R’ U L U L U’ F’ D’ F U’ F’ D F – 33


Solution (18 moves to 2 3 cycles of corners, then complete fail insertions.) Can anyone help find better insertions?


F’ R’ L2 B2 D’ L’ D L D2 L’ D F’ L F L . L U L U’ @

. L U’ R U L2 U’ R’ U
@ U F’ D’ F U’ F’ D F


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## Olivér Perge (Nov 18, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> I suck at FMC


 
Yeah, but you can try 180 different solutions in an hour.  More than enough for a PLL skip, which is low 30 if not sub30 with your awesome F2L.


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## okayama (Nov 18, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> I suck at FMC
> 
> 
> D2 L F R D2 R2 U2 R' F2 D' F' U' F B' D R' D2 U F' B' R B U L U'
> ...



Solution: F' R' L2 B2 D' L' D L D2 L' D F' L F L F' U [B' U' D B D' F D B' D' U B] L U' (30 HTM)

Your skeleton: F' R' L2 B2 D' L' D L D2 L' D F' L F L U @ L U'
@ U' F' U B' U' F . U B
. F' D B D' F D B' D'

Looking back on the solution, [B' U' D B D' F D B' D' U B] is interesting, 5 moves setup + F + inverse 5 moves.


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 18, 2010)

okayama said:


> Looking back on the solution, [B' U' D B D' F D B' D' U B] is interesting, 5 moves setup + F + inverse 5 moves.


I note that all except for 2 of the 4-flip OLL cases can be solved optimally (face-turn metric) by that type of alg: 5-move setup, 1 turn, 5-move undo setup. For example, (R B2 R2 U2 R) B (R' U2 R2 B2 R'). The all corners oriented case is 12f*, so it is obviously one of the 2 exceptions. The other exception is OLL 19 in the Wiki.


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## mrCage (Nov 19, 2010)

cuBerBruce said:


> I note that all except for 2 of the 4-flip OLL cases can be solved optimally (face-turn metric) by that type of alg: 5-move setup, 1 turn, 5-move undo setup. For example, (R B2 R2 U2 R) B (R' U2 R2 B2 R'). The all corners oriented case is 12f*, so it is obviously one of the 2 exceptions. The other exception is OLL 19 in the Wiki.


 
Could you post a list of your (conjugate) sequences??

Per


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 19, 2010)

mrCage said:


> Could you post a list of your (conjugate) sequences??
> 
> Per



Here's one example alg for each relevant OLL case. (Invert the middle move to set up the case.)

(R B2 R2 U2 R) B (R' U2 R2 B2 R')
(L' B2 L2 U2 L') B' (L U2 L2 B2 L)
(R U' R2 D' L) F' (L' D R2 U R')
(R U2 L' B L) U2 (L'B' L U2 R')
(R U2 R' F' L') U2 (L F R U2 R')
(L' F U2 B' R) U2 (R' B U2 F' L)

(found using JACube)

I note there are 5 other 11f* OLLs (besides the ones that flip 4 edges), of which 2 can also be solved with this type of conjugation.
(R' F2 R2 U2 R') F2 (R U2 R2 F2 R)
(R' U F2 D' F) U2 (F' D F2 U' R)


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## okayama (Nov 20, 2010)

Wow! I have never known that. Quite interesting! Hmm.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 24, 2010)

Why I suck at FMC...

weekly 47 U L2 D B2 L2 B2 D' L' D L2 U2 B' U L R D' R'

Do NOT open if you still need to compete in weekly 47


Spoiler



L' D2 B' D2 B2 D' 2x2x2 6 - 6
B' U L U pseudo 2x2x3 4 - 10 (initially B' U L U' B2 to extend original 2x2x2 but this change gave much better cont.)
L' B' pseudo F2L- 1 corner 2 -12
D' L' D L' D' L2 D A-Sune to place edges 7 - 19
U2 undo the pseudo part to leave 5 corners 1 - 20



20 moves and 5 corners left. Time for some simple comm. work you say?
I just do not get them!!!!!! I just stare at these stupid pieces of post-it floating around my cube and get nowhere...

For those of you that have already done the weekly 47, can you please post your continuation of this solve? Without showing my skeleton please so we do not spoil the weekly as long as it is still running.
I was so proud of my pseudo block and 20 move skeleton and then this...

I am already studing comm. on the sites of Heise and Roux but I feel such a noob as it just will not sink in.


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## okayama (Nov 24, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> Why I suck at FMC...
> 
> weekly 47 U L2 D B2 L2 B2 D' L' D L2 U2 B' U L R D' R'
> 
> ...


 
Using your start (F2L minus 1 slot), I found some alternative skeletons. Choose what you like and complete it by yourself. 


Spoiler



Scramble: U L2 D B2 L2 B2 D' L' D L2 U2 B' U L R D' R'
Your start: L' D2 B' D2 B2 D' / B' U L U / L' B' 

(1) All but 5 corners: B' L' B L2 B' L' B / U2 (19 moves)
Insert two corner 3-cycles.

(2) All but 2 corners/2 edges: B' L' B L B' L' B L2 B' L2 * B / U2 (23 moves)
Insert a 2c2e swap alg. Quick example: Insert J-perm at *.

(3) All but 3 c/e pairs: B' L' B L B' L' B L2 B' L B / U2 (23 moves)
Insert a pair 3-cycle.

(4) All but 3 corners: B' L F B L' B' L F' L B L2 B' L2 B / U2 (26 moves)
(Found with NISS) Insert a corner 3-cycle.

(5) All but 3 corners: L2 D L D' L' D L2 D' L' D L D' / U2 (25 moves)
Insert a corner 3-cycle.


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## PalashD (Nov 24, 2010)

okayama said:


> Using your start (F2L minus 1 slot), I found some alternative skeletons. Choose what you like and complete it by yourself.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 
How much time did you take to find all these?


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## okayama (Nov 24, 2010)

PalashD said:


> How much time did you take to find all these?



donno... but I found (1) very quickly (5--10 min?), (2) and (3) at the same time, and (4).
After posting them, I looked back, and quickly found (5) (5 min or so), and added it.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 24, 2010)

okayama said:


> Using your start (F2L minus 1 slot), I found some alternative skeletons. Choose what you like and complete it by yourself.



Thank you for the extensive feedback.
Given my commutator blindness that would have to be option 2 with 2c 2e left...
I actually know two different J-perms and mirrors so I could indeed work toward maximum cancellations.
Will try this tonight.

Who's willing to show me how to get the final 5 corners of my solution done?
I would love to learn how to recognize the commutators.


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## okayama (Nov 25, 2010)

guusrs said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> For advanced FMC users here is a nice example of my NISS-method for FMC (Normal-Inverse-Scramble-Switch):
> Scramble: (fmc.mustcube.net #265) F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2 R L' F2 U' F' L
> ...





Stini said:


> That is a fantastic solution! I have been experimenting with that method as well in recent FMC scrambles, but I don't think I have yet used it in my final solutions. I only got 30 moves for that scramble with a more classical method, but I am happy that I found an optimal 2x2x3-block (which I although modified a bit to get an easier continuation).



I found 8-move 2x2x3 block building in the inverse scramble:
B L' U F2 B2 R2 B' D
but couldn't find a good continuation.

I tried another start, and found a Sub 30 solution.

Scramble: F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2 R L' F2 U' F' L
Solution: B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 D2 F R F B' D2 R D' R' D B' D2 B D L U' L2 U D2 L2 U' B' (29 HTM)

NISS solve.

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: B'

Pseudo 2x2x2 block: D' F R F

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F' R' F' D

2x2x2 block: B U
More 2x2x1 block: L2 D2 U'
More 2x2x1 block: L2 U L'

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L U' L2 U D2 L2 U' B'

F2L minus 1 slot: D' F R F B'
Orient edges: D2 R D' R'
All but 3 corners: D B' D2 B D
Correction: L U' L2 U D2 L2 U' B'

Insert at the beginning: B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 D'

Hard scramble for me, but Guus achieved 29-move solution in 1-hour and 25-move later. Awesome.


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## irontwig (Nov 25, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> Who's willing to show me how to get the final 5 corners of my solution done?
> I would love to learn how to recognize the commutators.



http://solvethecube.110mb.com/commutators.html Look at "The basic 8 move corner three-cycles"

You pretty much have to use stickers for 5 corners. Keep in mind you have to cycle three "neighbor corners". So if you have the corner cycle 12345 to leave three corners you need to do 123, 234, 345, 451 or 512 if that makes any sense.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 25, 2010)

Thank you Irontwig, how could I forget Joels site and his HQ tutorials!

I know how the sticker thingy works, my cube actuall still has the 12345 stickers stickers on it but I just fail at recognising comms...

Hope I can find some time to go through Joels page soon!


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## AnsonL (Nov 26, 2010)

what does FMC stands for:confused:


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## Inf3rn0 (Nov 26, 2010)

AnsonL said:


> what does FMC stands for:confused:


 
[wiki]Fewest Moves[/wiki] Challenge


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## JackJ (Nov 27, 2010)

Hello everyone! I just completed my first FMC solution! While I know it's rather bad, I'd still like to share and get pointers. 

Scramble: U' D F' R2 B2 L2 D' B' D F' B2 L' U F' D' R' B F2 U' D L2 B2 F' L' U2

U2 F B' L B U R'
D2 L' D L
z2 F' U F U2 F U' F' 
B' U2 B U B' U' B 
R U R' U R U R' 
U2 R U R' U R d' R U' R' F'
R2 F2 U R2 D' R2 D B2 U' F2 B2 R2 U'

57 moves. :/


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## cubefan4848 (Nov 27, 2010)

JackJ said:


> Hello everyone! I just completed my first FMC solution! While I know it's rather bad, I'd still like to share and get pointers.
> 
> Scramble: U' D F' R2 B2 L2 D' B' D F' B2 L' U F' D' R' B F2 U' D L2 B2 F' L' U2
> 
> ...


 
The first tip is that most of the time when doing FMC you start with a 2x2x2 block then extend it to a 2x2x3 block. There is lots of ways to finish after that but I am not that good so I just finish the last cross do the last 2 F2L pieces then OLL and PLL


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## Yes We Can! (Nov 27, 2010)

Please help me to find an insertion for my last 3 corners D:

Scramble: D2 R2 U2 R2 B2 U2 B' D2 B L2 F2 L F2 D' B R U' L' B R F (21)
Solution: D L' F' U' F' L F U2 R D2 U' L2 U' R' F2 R B' U' B U2 L U2 F' L B2 L' F L B2 L2 U2 (31)
D L' F' U' F' L F U2 R D2 (10/10) 2x2x3
U' L2 U' R' F2 R (6/16) Triple x-Cross
B' U' B U2 L U2 [L'] (6/22) F2L + OLL aka leave 3 corners
[L] F' L B2 L' F L B2 L2 U2 (9/31) A-Perm aka L3C commutator

Same with my 28 weekly-48 solution (I won't post it here, until the round has ended), I just can't find good insertions.


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## Ranzha (Nov 27, 2010)

Using the logo as a scramble.

Corners: R2 U2 L2 F2 L2 F2 U2 R2 F2 L2 F2 L2 (after screwing around for ten minutes) [12]
Edges: U D' L2 U' D F2. [6/18]

Easy. =D

EDIT: Optimal solution is F2 R2 D' U' L2 B2 L2 B2 D U F2 R2, at 12 moves. Wow. Didn't know it was that simple.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 28, 2010)

RE: my weekly 47 solve (attempt)
After studing Joel's tutorial I am finally getting some succeses on commutators!

Now checking my original solution and already managed to get cycle "451" in... No cancellations but happy enough I even recognized it. This is probably going to be my longest FMC but I will keep on working on this until I have found several possible insertions.

I suspect it will be a long time before I can actually apply this in a one-hour setting...


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## irontwig (Nov 28, 2010)

My first official FMC solution at the Swedish Cubedays:

Scramble: D2 B L2 F2 L2 U2 F L2 B D2 U' F L' R' U' B' L R2 F' R' D
Solution: y' R2 F L' D' B U F L F L2 D2 F' D F D F' D F' D' F D L R' B' D B R L' F2 D' L (31)

y' R2 F L' D' B U [2x2x2]
F L F L2 [Pseudo-2x2x3]
D2 F' D F D2 [Pseudo-F2L]
D' F' D F' D' F2 D [CLL]
D' F' D L R' B' D B R L' [ELL]
F2 D' L [AUF and undo pseudoness]

Club 31 :3


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## JackJ (Nov 28, 2010)

My second day with fmc. I found a semi-easy scramble and got a 47 move solution. Somebody might be able to do something nice with it however.
Scramle: B L' U B2 F R2 D' R' D' F' L2 F2 U R' L' F U2 F2 B' L' D2 R

R2 L U B R’ F R
U’ F’ U F U’ F’ U’ F
L U L’ U L U L’
F’ L F L’
U’ R’ F R U R’ U’ F’ 
U’ R U2 R’ F R U R’ U’ R’ F’ R2 U2

That was actually a speedsolve. I just took out the rotations and cancelled a few moves.


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## riffz (Nov 29, 2010)

Yes said:


> Please help me to find an insertion for my last 3 corners D:
> 
> Scramble: D2 R2 U2 R2 B2 U2 B' D2 B L2 F2 L F2 D' B R U' L' B R F (21)
> Solution: D L' F' U' F' L F U2 R D2 U' L2 U' R' F2 R B' U' B U2 L U2 F' L B2 L' F L B2 L2 U2 (31)
> ...


 
Just on lunch at work so I don't have much time, but the first one I found was

D L' F' U' . F' L F U2 R D2
U' L2 U' R' F2 R
B' U' B U2 L U2 L' U2

insert U R' U' L U R U' L' at .

Gives 30 move solution.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 29, 2010)

Back to weekly 47...

47 U L2 D B2 L2 B2 D' L' D L2 U2 B' U L R D' R'

L' D2 *.* B' D2 B2 D' 2x2x2 6 - 6
B' U L U pseudo 2x2x3 4 - 10
L' B' pseudo F2L- 1 corner 2 -12
*@* D' L' D L' D' L2 D A-Sune to place edges 7 - 19
U2 *#* undo the pseudo part to leave 5 corners 1 - 20

And here are my insertions
. R U R' D' R U' R' D cycle 451 no canc
OR
@ F U B' U' F' U B U' cycle 451 no canc

then 
# B' L' F' L B L' F L cycle 123 no canc

=
L' D2 B' D2 B2 D' B' U L U L' B' F U B' U' F' U B U' D' L' D L' D' L2 D U2 B' L' F' L B L' F L
or
L' D2 R U R' D' R U' R' D B' D2 B2 D' B' U L U L' B' D' L' D L' D' L2 D U2 B' L' F' L B L' F L

Giving me a PB of 36 moves

I really need to practice those comm. thingies. I guess I have missed quite a few possible insertions.

Question: do you also look at "wrong" cycles? 
My 2nd and 3rd insertion I actually recognized as cycles in the wrong direction where I just noted the inverse of the commutator (that I originally applied twice)...

Now that I did some thinking for myself, :confused: is there somebody willing to show me some better cycles?


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## riffz (Nov 30, 2010)

Cubenovice said:


> Now that I did some thinking for myself, :confused: is there somebody willing to show me some better cycles?


 
Check out the BH site for corners and edges, and see the BH guide in the How To's section for details on how to create the different types of corner comms.


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## souljahsu (Nov 30, 2010)

I just started FMC today, my first attempt is kind of bad, but here it is:

Scramble: U2 F' U' B' R' B2 L U' R F2 U L2 D B' D (15 moves)

Solution:
D U F U D' L'
R' F' R U2 D'
F L F' L F2 L' F'
L' U2 L U' L U L2 U2
U' b L B' L' b' U B
U2 L F B' U2 F' B L U2 L2
(44 moves)

Are there anything suggestions on what I could have done? Is there a guide on FMC? Is there a special way to train block building skills?


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## Cubenovice (Nov 30, 2010)

@ Riffz: Aarrgggg... Even more material to study...


Souljahsu: AVG started a nice thread on FMC techniques.
Make sure to read the whole thread not just the initial post.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques

For blockbuilding and EO you could have a look at Lars Petrus' site.

But as you seem to be a ZZer there is perhaps not much new to learn?
Off course in FMC you can go back and forth through your blockbuilding step to try to maneuver pieces into better positions.


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## Stini (Nov 30, 2010)

I don't think it's necessary to learn full BH for FMC, knowing and recognizing the 8-movers is enough. For edges it's often best to just find a good spot to setup to M' U2 M U2 (or its inverse), which you can also do like L F2 L' R U2 R'. The BH algs I've seen for edges are supercube safe, so they aren't necessarily optimal for 3x3x3. Also they aren't usually optimized for HTM.

To learn more about block building I'd recommend checking optimal solutions with http://laire.fi/jarcs/


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## Cubenovice (Nov 30, 2010)

Stini said:


> knowing and recognizing the 8-movers is enough. For edges it's often best to just find a good spot to setup to M' U2 M U2 (or its inverse), which you can also do like L F2 L' R U2 R'. The BH algs I've seen for edges are supercube safe, so they aren't necessarily optimal for 3x3x3. Also they aren't usually optimized for HTM.


 
Getting to know and recognize some (all?) 8 movers is my current challenge indeed.
I found Joels tutorial to be very helpfull *again* (previously learned BLD). It has definately improved my comm spotting after going through (most of it) just once.

However I do find that I still make far too many mistakes; thinking I am starting a comm and then finding halfway through that way to much pieces are being moved about.
I hope to find the time this week to go trough it a few more times untill I fully understand, then back to the Heise and Roux site for some more.

Another thing I am thinking about is going through other peoples solves until the "x corners" left and then try to find insertions by myself.

Must... Improve... for... first... FMC... in... Aachen 2011

EDIT: Just had a quick peek at the BH tutorial thread. What an *awesome* resource!
A big thanks to Byu for creating that one


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## Cubenovice (Dec 7, 2010)

*Commututur successu!*

Jippee! I managed to put a commutator in a commutator.
Unfortunately the 2nd comm didn't cancel any moves so I cannot copy a certain signature 

Not a good FMC solve at all but I just wanted to tackle this specific scramble:
F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

R L F B R L2 U' L' D
U' B' U' B U
*F* @ U2 F' U2 L' U L U2
R U2 R' U2 F' U F
B U B'
U' R' U R U2 leaves 5 corners

at @ insert *F* U F' D2 # F U' F' D2 to cancel one move
at # insert L D L' U2 L D' L' U2

Final solution:
R L F B R L2 U' L' D U' B' U' B U *F2* U F' D2 L D L' U2 L D' L' U2 F U' F' D2 U2 F' U2 L' U L U2 R U2 R' U2 F' U F B U B' U' R' U R U2


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## Cubenovice (Dec 13, 2010)

My apologies for spamming the thread with three posts in a row but since it is a new question I'm not editing it into a new post...

yesterday evening I managed to get to "six corners left" in 10 moves.
I thought that with a little luck I might get a 26 mover out of this. 
But on "solving" my first three-cycle I managed to get them into place but 1 of 3 them was twisted?
I had another look at the cycle and it seemed I stickered OK.

So eventually I had to resort to using three cycles to stay within the hour.
1 place 3 corners with 1 twisted
2 place one corner while pulling out the twisted one of 1
3 solve the remaining three
With the extra nasty bonus of cancelling two moves but eventually having to put the 3rd comm in between the cancelling moves because there I could spot an A9...
Leaving me with a 35 HTM solution...

So my question is: Is this "twisted corner although the cycle looks OK" something that can actually occur with 6 corners left or id I just mess up in stickering or execution of the cycle? Probably the latter...

Will have a longer look this evening, gotta go to work now.
Goning to start with the other cycle then.

*EDIT: Nevermind...*

Went through the cycles on my way to work and indeed both cycles are "open" due to a twisted corner.


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## irontwig (Dec 13, 2010)

Can you show the scramble and your skeletons? Sub-30 with 6 corners left after just 10 moves should be possible even if you need three cycles.


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## Stini (Dec 13, 2010)

You can't always even solve 5 corners with just two commutators, you need to have a pure 5-cycle to do that. If you have two 2-cycles and one twisted corner, you need at least 3 commutators or some other special tricks. Similarly you can only solve 6 corners with two commutators if you have two independently solvable 3-cycles (just two separate 3-cycles might not be enough because there can be orientation dependence between the cycles).


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## Cubenovice (Dec 13, 2010)

By reading all the FMC related stuff on the forum I already knew about the corners *twisted in place* being BAD.
But I must plead guilty of being ignorant of the possibility to have twisted corners hidden in two three-cycles.

This is also the reason why I am enjoying FMC so much, there is so much to learn!
And nothing beats learning by experience so this has been a very good solution for me.
Learnings for cases with 3+ corners left:
- properly check the cycles, do they actually "close"?
- multiple cycles give many insertions to explore for cancellations
- you can ignore the orientation of the 3rd piece in an "open" cycle, giving even more possible insertions to explore 
- 1 hour is way too short to explore all possibilities

I deliberately did not post the scramble because it is part of the Xmas competition.
But since Irontwig already posted... Here it is.

*Spoiler alert!!!! Xmas competition 2010 scramble.
Do NOT open if you want to compete! *
My 35 move solution (didn't have time to play around with a different order of cycles)



Spoiler



Xmas 2010 competition scramble 3

Initial start R U B’ F’ R 2x2x2 5 – 5
Then spend some time playing around with some inserted moves to get a better continuation.

Then found U’ R U2 B’ F’ R L B L U all but 6 corners 10 – 10
Leaves three cycles because both 3-cycles have a twisted corner (cycle doesn’t “close”)

U’ R U2 B’ F’ R L B # L U 

At # insert U2 B D @ B’ U2 B D’ B’ solves 2 leaves 3rd flipped in place 8 - 18
At @ insert L F L’ B’ L F’ L’ B + solves 1, leaves 3 corners, 8 - 26
At + insert L L2 B’ R’ B L2 B’ R B L’ solved A9 comm 9 - 35

Solution: 
U’ R U2 B’ F’ R L B U2 B D L F L’ B’ L F’ L’ B L’ B’ R’ B L2 B’ R B L’ B’ U2 B D’ B’ L U 
Total 35 HTM



I can't check for typing errors right now so I hope this works...


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## irontwig (Dec 13, 2010)

My try at your skeleton:


Spoiler



U2 B' D2 B U B' D2 B R U2 B' F' R L2 D2 L' U' L D2 L' U B U R' U' L U R (28)

U':R U2 B' F' R L.B L U* 

*=U' L' U R' U' L U R (Not really an insertion as it's right at the end )
.=L D2 L' U' L D2 L' U
:=U' B' D2 B U B' D2 B


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## Cubenovice (Dec 13, 2010)

Must.. Not.. Look.. at.. Spoiler...

I want to get this one below 30 HTM all by myself.
Have some time later this evening and will post my final solution.

Offcourse the Xmas comp will still get the 35 HTM solution

@ Stini: thank you for the great definition of this situation!
"Orientation dependence between cycles" 

BTW, I am considering changing my signature to:
I put two commutators in a commutater and still failed to cancel moves...

EDIT: down to 30 HTM


Spoiler



Xmas scramble 3: D' U' L' R' D' L F R B D R' F' L2 U' R U B R2 D' L' D U F2 L R2

U’ R U2 B’ F’ R L B L U all but 6 corners 10 – 10

U’ R U2 # B’ @ + F’ R L B L U 

At # insert U B D B' U' B D' B' solves 2, leaves 3rd flipped in place cancel 2 moves 6 - 16
At @ insert B' U' B D' B' U B D solves 1, leaves 3 corners, cancel 1 move 7 - 23
At + insert D2 L U L' D2 L U' L' done, cancel 1 move 7 - 30

Solution:
U' R U' B D B' U' B D' B U' B D' B' U B D' L U L' D2 L U' L' F' R L B L U 30 HTM


Will have another go tomorrow...


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## irontwig (Dec 17, 2010)

Playing around with CF-FMC:

F B' R' B' U' L2 F' U' D' L F B2 R' B' F2 D F R2 F B' U B' U' L2 R2 
R U L' F2 L F D2 L2 D2 F' D B' F L' U' B2 F2 D F B2 U B F' L B' F U B' F R' L' x y' R' L U2 D (35f/29s)

R U L' F2 L [CO]
F D2 L2 D2 [CP+3E]
F' D B' F L' [2E]
U' B2 F2 D [UL]
F B2 U B F' L B' F [EO]
D R L'.F2 R' L U2 D [EP (Leaving six centres)] 

At dot insert R' L U D' B' F R' L x y' (7 moves cancel)

Centre-insertion : )


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## PalashD (Dec 18, 2010)

irontwig said:


> Centre-insertion : )


 
Wow!! Now I will try solving with a void cube


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## irontwig (Dec 18, 2010)

More CF-stuffs:

D2 B R D2 L2 R U L2 D' F2 L2 D' F2 L B F' U2 R2 B2 D' L' F B' D2 L 
U F B D2 B' F L2 R F' L U F2 D F D' F' L B L' F L B2 F U F B' U F' B L' U2 F2 B2 D2 F B' (36f/31s)

U F2.R F' L U [Blocks]
F2 D F D' [R-corners]
F' L B L' F L B2 F U F B' [L-corners (8C+5E)]
U F' B L' [Leaving five edges]
U2 F2 B2 D2 F B' [Leaving three edges]

At dot insert: B F' D2 B' F L2 (One move cancel)

Edit:
Another one:
F D' R L2 D2 L2 R2 U L2 B D2 R' L U' L2 U' B U2 F L B' D' B2 L D
B L2 U B' D2 U' B2 D' L' F L B' L' F' D' F2 R2 B2 U' B2 R2 F2 L B2 R' U D' F R2 D U' B2 (32f/30s)

B L2 U B' D2 U' B2 D' [Blocks]
L' F L B' L' F'.L B2 [L3C (Leaving seven edges)]
R' U D' F R2 D U' B2 [Leaving three edges]

At dot insert: D' F2 R2 B2 U' B2 R2 F2

The third step is just Roux-style EO with a three-cycle at the end.


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## Kenneth (Dec 19, 2010)

Chew on this : L2 R2 U' B F' R2 B D2 L' B' R2 B2 F U' R D' R2 D B2 L2 D' F2 B2 R2 F2

I had 11 HTM for F2L + EO but crappy LL :/


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## guusrs (Dec 19, 2010)

Kenneth said:


> Chew on this : L2 R2 U' B F' R2 B D2 L' B' R2 B2 F U' R D' R2 D B2 L2 D' F2 B2 R2 F2
> 
> I had 11 HTM for F2L + EO but crappy LL :/


 
my 5min solve:
F2L: U2 F' D' R' D B R L' R' D L' D L (13)
LL: L B' D B D L' B' D L D L' B D (25)
Gus


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## irontwig (Dec 19, 2010)

Good old Petrus:
U2 F' D' R' D R' B R L' D2 L [S1+2+3+4]
B D' F' D B' D' F [S5]
F D F' D F D2 F' [S6+7] (24)


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## Cubenovice (Dec 19, 2010)

Good old Sune

U2 F' D' R' D R' B R # *L' *D2 L F2L + EO
R D R' D R D2 R' Sune
D leaves 3 corners
at # insert B R B' L' B R' B' *L* to cancel 2 moves

U2 F' D' R' D R' B R B R B' L' B R' B' D2 L R D R' D R D2 R' D 25 HTM


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## okayama (Dec 22, 2010)

Scramble: L2 R2 U' B F' R2 B D2 L' B' R2 B2 F U' R D' R2 D B2 L2 D' F2 B2 R2 F2
Solution: U2 F' R' D B' L B2 L2 R D' L D R' L' D' L D L' D' L D (21 HTM)

2x2x3 block: U2 F' R'
All but 5 corners: D B' L B2 L'
All but 3 corners: L' * D' L D L' D' L D L' D' L D

Insert at *: R D' L D R' D' L' D

I found the skeleton in 5 min or so, and wrote down the full solution within 15 min.


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## PalashD (Dec 26, 2010)

okayama said:


> Scramble: L2 R2 U' B F' R2 B D2 L' B' R2 B2 F U' R D' R2 D B2 L2 D' F2 B2 R2 F2
> Solution: U2 F' R' D B' L B2 L2 R D' L D R' L' D' L D L' D' L D (21 HTM)
> 
> 2x2x3 block: U2 F' R'
> ...


 
I also found this skeleton but I suck at insertions!!


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## ilikecubing (Dec 26, 2010)

What are skeletons?


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## nathanajah (Dec 26, 2010)

Java FMC Day 2010

First Round:
Scramble: R2 U R2 U L2 D' R2 B2 U2 F' L D2 R2 U L' D R' U2 B' F2 
Solution: B' R L D' R2 D L' D' R2 L' B2 D F' U2 F2 B2 D R' B' R D' L' D' L D L' D2 L D' R D' R2 U' R D2 R' U R F (39 moves) 
Explanation:
Premove: F
2x2x3: B' R * *D'* L' B2 D F' U2 F2 (9/9)
Orient edges: B2 D R' B' R (5/14)
F2L-1: D' L' D' L D L' D2 L (8/22)
Solve edge: D' R D' R' *D2* (6/28)
Leave 3 corners: *D2* R' U' R D2 R' U R (6/32) cancel 2 moves
Undo Premove: F (1/33)
Insert at *: L D' R2 D L' D' R2 *D* (6/39) cancel 2 moves

Final Round:
Scramble: B2 L2 D' B2 U2 R2 U L' D' B2 R F' L D B' F2 L2 D' F'
Solution: R L' U' R2 U L U' D' R U R' D R D F R F' R' D' F' R2 F' L D' L B' L' R U B L' U2 (32 moves)
Explanation:
NISS solve
Inverse scramble:
1x2x3: U2 L B' U'
2x2x3: R' L B L' D L'
F2L-1: F R2
Normal Scramble:
Premove: R2 F' L D' L B' L' R U B L' U2
F2L: R *U'* * *R' U* ** (4/4)
Leave 4 corners: D F R F' R' D F' (7/11)
Undo Premove: R2 F' L D' L B' L' R U B L' U2 (12/23)
Insert at *: *U* L' U' R2 U L U' *R2* (5/28) cancel 3 moves
Insert at **: *U' R'* D' R U R' D R (4/32) cancel 4 moves


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## irontwig (Dec 26, 2010)

ilikecubing said:


> What are skeletons?


 
A skeleton solves most, but not all pieces. The most common skeletons are "corner-skeletons" that leave 3-5 corners to be solved with inserted commutators.


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## kinch2002 (Dec 27, 2010)

New PB  Just got *23 moves* on the Christmas Competition Scramble#3. I'll post the solution when the competition is over.


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## PalashD (Dec 27, 2010)

http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php

I beat Guss and Okayama!! 
Round 325 Classic!


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## Attila (Dec 27, 2010)

PalashD said:


> http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php
> 
> I beat Guss and Okayama!!
> Round 325 Classic!


 
Congratulations, much more succesful solutions


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## ssb150388 (Dec 27, 2010)

PalashD said:


> http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php
> 
> I beat Guss and Okayama!!
> Round 325 Classic!


 
Congrats dude...
Hope to see you soon!!


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## Kenneth (Dec 27, 2010)

Mabye this is not the tread for this but how about some 4x4 3-flip FMC?

M' U2 M U' S U L2 U' S' U Lw2 U2 B2 l' B2 l B2 l2 U2 r' U2 r B2 l' (24)

Shortest I found after 27, 26 and 25 using 2 algs, that is using 3.

First is M' U2 M U2 3-cycle, followed by another 3-cycle com to move pices back but flipped, where I use the last L2->Lw2 to start the pure 1-flip, The last U2 of the 1-flip cancles the last U2 of the first two algs.

Shorter anyone?

(I tried the wide move 1-flip and then a solver to find an alg for what it left but that was 15f* making a total of 30)


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## Christopher Mowla (Dec 28, 2010)

Kenneth said:


> Mabye this is not the tread for this but how about some 4x4 3-flip FMC?
> 
> M' U2 M' U' S U L2 U' S' U Lw2 U2 B2 l' B2 l B2 l2 U2 r' U2 r B2 l' (24)
> 
> ...


I think you have typed the algorithm wrong because...
M' U2 M' U' S U L2 U' S' U Lw2 U2 B2 l' B2 l B2 l2 U2 r' U2 r B2 l

But, assuming that you did mean to construct a pure 3 2-cycle algorithm (not double-parity), yes, there is a shorter one. This could be optimal:

M U l' x' U2 r B2 r U2 l2 U2 x U2 r D2 r' U2 r2 B2 U' M' (19 btm)


*Derivation*


Spoiler



[1] Taking the standard edge flip algorithm:
r2 B2 U2 (l) U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2

[2] Shifting it,
F2 r F2 l' B2 r2
r2 B2 U2 (l) U2 r' U2 r U2 

[3] Reversing the parenthesized move, (usually done for the purposes of development of a symmetrical doubleparity algorithm)
F2 r F2 l' B2 r2
r2 B2 U2 (l') U2 r' U2 r U2 

[4] Add a set-up move:
r2
F2 r F2 l' B2 r2
r2 B2 U2 (l') U2 r' U2 r U2
r2 

[5] Restore the centers on the left side adding on a piece:
r2
F2 r F2 l' B2 r2
r2 B2 U2 (l') U2 r' U2 r U2
r2 
(y2 r U2 r2 U2 r2 U2 r' U2 r2 U2 r2 U2 y2) 

[6] Adding the same outer-set-up moves as Lucasparity,
r U2 r'
r2
F2 r F2 l' B2 r2
r2 B2 U2 (l') U2 r' U2 r U2
r2 
(y2 r U2 r2 U2 r2 U2 r' U2 r2 U2 r2 U2 y2)
r U2 r' 

[7]
a) Putting this into cube explorer:
R U2 R' R2 F2 R F2 L' B2 R2 R2 B2 U2 L' U2 R' U2 R U2 R2 y2 U2 U2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R' U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 y2 R U2 R'

b) Choosing the 17f solution:
R2 F2 R D2 R F2 B2 U2 R' D2 B2 L' B2 R D2 L2 B2

c) Translating the result to the 4x4x4,
 r2 F2 r D2 r F2 B2 U2 r' D2 B2 l' B2 r D2 l2 B2

We do have a 3 2-cycle of wings, but we also have a 2 2-cycle of composite edges in S. So,

[8] If we take this 17f solution and add on the following piece:
R2 F2 R D2 R F2 B2 U2 R' D2 B2 L' B2 R D2 L2 B2 + S2 U2 S2 U2
running the program again for this (applying this to a clean cube), we get a 15f solution for the pure case!
 r U2 l' B2 l' U2 r2 U2 F2 l' B2 l F2 l2 U2

[9] If we wish to put all 3 2-cycles into the last layer, we can add set-up moves again:
x'
M
F
r U2 l' B2 l' U2 r2 U2 F2 l' B2 l F2 l2 U2
F'
M'
x
=x' M F r U2 l' B2 l' U2 r2 U2 F2 l' B2 l F2 l2 U2 F' M' x

This can be rewritten as:
M U l' x' U2 r B2 r U2 l2 U2 x U2 r D2 r' U2 r2 B2 U' M' (19 btm)



EDIT:

Perhaps this could be faster:
M'2 U l x U2 r' F2 r' U2 l2 U2 x' U2 r' D2 r U2 r2 F2 U' M'2 (19 btm)


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## TMOY (Dec 28, 2010)

Assuming you meant to construct a pure triple edge-flip, you didn't succeed, sorry. Your algs affect centers, more precisely it turns the B center by 180°. This can be fixed the following way:

M U l' x' U2 r B2 r U2 l2 U2 x U2 r D2 r' U2 r2 B2 U' x L2 U2 R' L' U R L U2 R' L' U
(30 moves, probably not optimal but I can't think of a better one right now)


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## Kenneth (Dec 28, 2010)

Of course I assume centres are solved, it is not possible else, some centres must be swapped.

Second M'->M but it is not only that, the applet can't handle all notation, I think it is the Lw that messes things...

19 is nice but I guess the optimal solution is possibly shorter if you allow any face turn to move around paired deges. Problem is that you get thousands of algs if you use the solver and you can't test them all. It is much easier to sort out the ones you already know will work.


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## TMOY (Dec 28, 2010)

Kenneth said:


> Of course I assume centres are solved, it is not possible else, some centres must be swapped.


 Sprry but you're just wrong. On the 4^3 you can perform any permutation of wings without affecting centers at all.
(It is not true anymore on cubes bigger than 4^3, though.)


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## Christopher Mowla (Dec 28, 2010)

TMOY said:


> Assuming you meant to construct a pure triple edge-flip, *you didn't succeed, sorry*. Your algs affect centers, more precisely it turns the B center by 180°. This can be fixed the following way:
> 
> M U l' x' U2 r B2 r U2 l2 U2 x U2 r D2 r' U2 r2 B2 U' x L2 U2 R' L' U R L U2 R' L' U
> (30 moves, probably not optimal but I can't think of a better one right now)



You honestly thought I believed that I found a center-preserving algorithm? If I found an algorithm to do an odd permutation and preserve the centers, I would have mentioned "(center-preserving)". This algorithm is not only brief for what it does, but it can be applied to all size cubes, not just the 4x4x4's "special case". When I heard the term "4x4x4", I immediately thought "big cubes" because most common algorithms, which work on the 4x4x4, are transferable to all big cube sizes, or at least to higher order even cubes (speaking of individual orbits as well). 

Even if I was able to find a center-preserving algorithm for the 4x4x4, it would in no way be fewer moves than swapping two 1x2 center blocks within the same face or even swapping two X-center pieces on two different faces (where two are swapped on each face).



TMOY said:


> Sorry but you're just wrong. On the 4^3 you can perform any permutation of wings without affecting centers at all.
> (It is not true anymore on cubes bigger than 4^3, though.)


I believe Kenneth knows this as we all do.

For a cube size _n_=4 or greater with _r_ orbits with inner-layer odd parity, there are exactly \( 2r\left( n-2 \right)-4r^{2} \) T-Center pieces and/or obliques which cannot be solved back due to the odd permutation.

Kenneth probably didn't even think twice about what you were thinking because, in his mind, he was interested in fewest moves to flip 3 edges, not "fewest moves to preserve the centers".


Both Kenneth and I have made some algorithms which are pretty impressive, so I don't think you should so quickly assume that we don't know some *elementary *facts such as these. People use different terminologies for describing different things. In addition, when someone has a goal, and something else obviously works against that goal, that particular item is subconsciously blotted out of his or her mind.

EDIT:


Kenneth said:


> 19 is nice but I guess the optimal solution is possibly shorter if you allow any face turn to move around paired deges.


Well maybe one day we will know the answer.


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## TMOY (Dec 28, 2010)

cmowla said:


> You honestly thought I believed that I found a center-preserving algorithm?



No. I'm only fighting against a bad terminology.



cmowla said:


> Even if I was able to find a center-preserving algorithm for the 4x4x4



Does it imply that you aren't ? 



cmowla said:


> I believe Kenneth knows this *as we all do.*



Just lol. Of course everybody knows it, that's certainly why I have already had to teach it to a lot of people.



cmowla said:


> For a cube size _n_=4 or greater with _r_ orbits with inner-layer odd parity, there are exactly \( 2r\left( n-2 \right)-4r^{2} \) T-Center pieces and/or obliques which cannot be solved back due to the odd permutation.



From the point of view of the mathematician I am, your statement just makes no sense. Orbits of what ? T-centers ? Oblique centers ? Other centers ? Wings ? Alots ? I'll give you a less poorly worded one:

On a cube of size n=4 or greater on which exactly r orbits of wings are oddly permuted and the corners are evenly permuted, there are exactly \( r\left( n-2 \right)-2r^{2} \) orbots of centers which are oddly permuted, and these centers are all either T-centers or oblique centers.



cmowla said:


> Both Kenneth and I has made some algorithms that are pretty impressive, so I don't think you should so quickly assume that we don't know some *elementary *facts such as these



I don't assume anything. I'm just stating the obvious fact that ha has made a mistake in his post concerning that "elementary" fact.



> People use different terminologies for describing different things


It doesn't imply that all terminologies are good. For me, calling "pure" something which does a lot of hidden things on the cube is definitely a poor choice of word.


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## Christopher Mowla (Dec 29, 2010)

TMOY said:


> Does it imply that you aren't ?


Well, I did get one move less using MrCage's commutator for a 2 2-cycle of X-center pieces:
M'2 U' r F2 (l' r) r U r l d2 l' r' U' r l Dw2 l' F2 l F2 D2 l F2 l' U2 r U' M'2 (28 btm)

I don't think I can approach something like this any other way. Either I do what you did, or I do what I did. My approach just happened to be one move less. It is slightly more applicable to other size cubes besides the 4x4x4 than yours, but I guess for our purposes, that does not matter anyway.


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## 4. (Jan 3, 2011)

What is FMC?


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## JasonK (Jan 3, 2011)

4. said:


> What is FMC?


 *F*ewest *M*oves *C*ompetition
It's an event where you are given a scramble and have one hour to work out the shortest possible solution to that scramble.


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## Ranzha (Jan 3, 2011)

4. said:


> What is FMC?


 
Lurk moar.
http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Fewest_Moves


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## marco.garsed (Jan 3, 2011)

Hi!

I'm quite a noob in FMC but take a look at this solve!

I'm quite proud of it XD

Scramble: L B' D' U2 F' L R' B F U B F2 R U F L' R2 U B2 F L B2 F R2 B

Solve:
x2
U' F' U2 L
x B' R2 D U2 (B L' F' L B' L2 F L' F' L2) F2 U2 D R 
x2 L F' L' F (U' R U' L2 U R' U' L2)

34 HTM

Explanation:

x2
U' F' U2 L (first block)
x B' R2 D U2 (B L' F' L B' L2 F L' F' L2 [F]) F U2 D R (some blocks including a LL block)
x2 L F' L' F (U' R U' L2 U R' U' L2 [U2]) [U2] (here I solve all but a 3-cycle of corners and a couple edges-corners)

first insertion is a J perm (11 - 1 move cancelled) and second insertion is an A perm (9 - 2 moves canceled)

let me know if you like it... 

Marco.


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## irontwig (Jan 4, 2011)

Nice, but often just corner insertions are better:

_D' B' D2 L D' R2 F B2 U B2 F R D L D' R D' L2 D' R U' R' D2 R U R2 D' L D2 F2 _ (30)

D' B' D2 L D' R2 F B2 U B2 F R D [Your Pseudo-F2L-1]
L D2.L' D2 F2 [Leaving five corners]

.=D R D' L2 R' D' L2
:=D2 R U' R' D2 R U R'


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## marco.garsed (Jan 4, 2011)

yeah it's great! I'm searching threads or sites who teches advaced FMC tecniques... can you suggest me some of them? I can't understand for example how can i get advantages from a premove... and maybe it could be useful to learn some specific algs... I want to know more about FMC... in Italy nobody does it and the NR is 34...

PS I've seen some of your posts... congrats for your results!


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## irontwig (Jan 4, 2011)

You can check out the "The basic 8 move corner three-cycles" section of Joël's commutator tutotial:
http://solvethecube.110mb.com/commutators.html

Pre-moves are not really necessary, they just make things easier to see, for example if you do F2 before the scramble and then do your first 13 moves then you'll get a normal F2L-1.

Edit: Speaking of which, I could've just continued D2 L D L' D2 L D2 L'.D' F2, which leaves three corners and then inserted L' D R D' L D R' D' at the dot to cancel two moves and get a 29 move total, perhaps you could look for an even better insertion after reading the tutorial as I didn't look through the entire solution. FMC makes you feel like such a dumbass at times ("Gah, why didn't I see that!?").


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## Cubenovice (Jan 4, 2011)

Another great resource on commutators is Byu's thread " BH tutorial" in the BLD sub-forum.
For general FCM tactics AVG made a nice thread too (stickied in cube therory sub-forum)

Both these threads have helped me a great deal.

EDIT: 
FMC makes me feel like a dumbass Alot...


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## marco.garsed (Jan 4, 2011)

("Gah said:


> lol yeah it often happens XD... I know commutators... I use freestyle for BLD from some monthes... In my solve there where no places to put a 8 move commutator with those corners... so the final A perm was the best insertion I think... because it canceled 2 moves too... Is my 11st FM solve... I have to look better at all the possibilities...


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## irontwig (Jan 4, 2011)

lolwat. You even have a 8-mover at the end: U R U' L2 U R' U' L2 cancelling one move.


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## marco.garsed (Jan 4, 2011)

this was my solve in fact... 

Solve:
x2
U' F' U2 L
x B' R2 D U2 (B L' F' L B' L2 F L' F' L2) F2 U2 D R 
x2 L F' L' F (U' R U' L2 U R' U' L2)


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## Cubenovice (Jan 4, 2011)

Another thing to consider: always write your solutions *without* cube rotations.
This makes it easier to spot cancellations.

Starting from the WCA scramble orientation: for a green face turn always write F, *B*ack is *B*, *R*ed is *Right*, etc.

This takes very little time to get used to and enables you to twist and turn your cube as much as you like during the course of your solve.


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## okayama (Jan 7, 2011)

On the hardest scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

[Brief History] Full solutions for the scramble by human beings in this thread:

35 HTM by Conrad (maybe first try, in 1-hour?)
34 HTM by me (in 1-hour) and shorten Conrad's solution to 32 HTM (after 1-hour)
Another 32 HTM solution by me (after 1-hour)
31 HTM by Guus (in 1-hour)

Then 30 HTM solution by me:
Solution: F' R D2 R2 B' D B U F' U' B' D2 U' L U' R B' L' B R' B' L R B R' U2 B R' U R

NISS solve.

(Normal)

Two c/e pairs: F' R D2
2x2x1 block: R2 B'
2x2x2 block: U D F' D2
2x2x3 block: U2 L

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: U L' U2 D2 F D' U' B R2 D2 R' F

Orient edges: R' U' R
F2L minus 1 slot: B' U2
All but 5 corners: R B' R' B
All but 3 corners: B' L' B R B' L B R'
Correction: U L' U2 D2 * F D' U' B R2 D2 R' F

Insert at *: U' B U F U' B' U F'

Keep trying!


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## irontwig (Jan 7, 2011)

Hmm... The corners are nice: L2 F L2 U2 F2 R. Want to do a attempt, Atilla? : )


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## Attila (Jan 7, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Hmm... The corners are nice: L2 F L2 U2 F2 R. Want to do a attempt, Atilla? : )


 
OK, but my have a disease with fever now . i will write a solution maybe tomorrow


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## Attila (Jan 8, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Hmm... The corners are nice: L2 F L2 U2 F2 R. Want to do a attempt, Atilla? : )


 
L2BU2B2R2L2U’L2B2 (9) all corners +2 edges,
RU’F’RL’UB (7/16) more 2 edges,
R2BRL’D’ (5/21) more 2 edges,
RL’F2URL’B’U2L (9/30) 6E4C.
About 2h was this solution.


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## Cubenovice (Jan 11, 2011)

I was wondering if it ever has been investigated / published what is the most optimal (in terms of average movecount) way of EO?

After 2x2x3 as in Petrus
After F2L-1 slot as in Heise: (should perhaps be split out; some EO can already be included in placing the blocks)
At the start of the solve as in ZZ: two versions
- EO-Line
- EO only as as the line could perhaps be in the way of optimal block building
ZB or VH Edge control during placement of F2L pairs

I have found some interesting threads about movecounts (listed below) but nothing specifically about the EO step in itself.
And yes, I do understand that even for FMC an average movecount doesn't tell you anything about one specific solve... 

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?19814-zz-vs.-zbf2l

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...ross-and-3x2x2-move-count&p=185213#post185213


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## cuBerBruce (Jan 11, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> I was wondering if it ever has been investigated / published what is the most optimal (in terms of average movecount) way of EO?
> 
> After 2x2x3 as in Petrus
> After F2L-1 slot as in Heise: (should perhaps be split out; some EO can already be included in placing the blocks)
> ...


 
I'm not sure how meaningful such comparisons are, as the number of edges remaining to be oriented vary according to which method step you using, not to mention that the method step may also be accomplishing other things besides EO. But I can provide some of the numbers. (Averages rounded to fourth place after the decimal point.)

Beginning of solve (<U,D,L,R,F2,B2>-style edge orientation), fixed cube orientation (not color neutral):
Average: 4.6089 Worst case: 7

Petrus step 3:
Average: 4.9531 Worst case: 8

ZBF2L:
Average: 8.0800 Worst case: 11


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## Cubenovice (Jan 16, 2011)

Hi Bruce, thank you for your feedback.
Too bad there is no info on Heise as I was really wondering how having to work with one open slot would compare to the larger freedom in Petrus.


And now for something competely different:
I put three commutators into a commutator 

fmc.mustcube.net Round: 328 sorted by htm
Scramble: D2 F' B2 R2 F L U' D B2 L R D U2 B R2 D' F D2 R' L D R U2 F2 R2 L' D2 L2 F U2

@ R' L2 B2 R' B' L2 leaves 5 edges and 4 corners
I just had to try this with comm.
insertion extravaganza:
At @ insert D § R' U' # R D' R' U R to cancel two moves R-R' 
At § insert U2 R D R' U2 R D' R' to cancel one move R'-R'
At # insert U' + D B2 D' U R2 to cancel two moves U'-U' and R2-R
At + B' L R2 U' D B2 U D' L' B Aarghh could not find a good insertion for these last three edges...
These BL set up moves for the last three edges cost me a 29 move PB

D U2 R D R' U2 R D' R' R' U' U' B' L R2 U' D B2 U D' L' B D B2 D' U R2 R D' R' U R R' L2 B2 R' B' L2
=
D U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 U2 B' L R2 U' D B2 U D' L' B D B2 D' U R' D' R' U L2 B2 R' B' L2 33 HTM

Not very efficient I know but I couldn't resist the urge to try...


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## Cool Frog (Jan 16, 2011)

I have been wondering about this for a while.
What are the least number of moves needed to swap 2 corners on the U face while paying no attention to M slice or U face edge orientation/permutation?
What about for diagonal?


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## cuBerBruce (Jan 17, 2011)

Cool Frog said:


> I have been wondering about this for a while.
> What are the least number of moves needed to swap 2 corners on the U face while paying no attention to M slice or U face edge orientation/permutation?
> What about for diagonal?


 
I note that you didn't specify the orientation of the corners to swap. I am also assuming you are don't care about the positions and orientations of the U and M layer edges, and the rest of the edges are solved (must not be moved or change orientation). I am also assuming the other 6 corners are solved (must not be moved or change orientation).

On the 2x2x2, it takes 10 moves to swap 2 corners, without affecting the other 6, except for cases equivalent to these two cases:
Swap (ULF,URB): takes 11 moves (for this orientation case)
Swap (ULF,FRU): takes 11 moves (for this orientation case)

So obviously, you can't do better than this on the 3x3x3. The good news, for the cases where the corners being swapped are both in the U layer, and assuming the above conditions for the other pieces, it doesn't take any additional moves to do these swaps on the 3x3x3 than it does for the same cases on the 2x2x2. (I used ACube to check.)


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## Cubenovice (Jan 18, 2011)

Here's another one: what are the odds to run into a situation where you require three cycles to solve the last 5 corners?

On this weeks FMC I found two completely different starts to leave 5 corners and both of them required three cycles to solve:
Both solves had one twisted corner and two pairs of corners that required swapping.

FMCFMCL...


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## cuBerBruce (Jan 18, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Here's another one: what are the odds to run into a situation where you require three cycles to solve the last 5 corners?
> 
> On this weeks FMC I found two completely different starts to leave 5 corners and both of them required three cycles to solve:
> Both solves had one twisted corner and two pairs of corners that required swapping.



I'll assume you're solving F2L minus one slot, then solving the remaining edges completely ignoring the remaining corners. This would give (5!/2)*(3^4) = 4860 possibilities for the last 5 corners (with possibly some or all of those corners being solved by chance). The possible cycle structures (ignoring directions of twists and with asterisks indicating a "misoriented cycle") are:


```
{5}                1944
{3,1,1}             180
[b]{3,1*,1*}           360[/b]
{3*,1,1*}           720
[b]{3*,1*,1*}          360[/b]
{2,2,1}             135
[b]{2,2*,1*}           540[/b]
{2*,2*,1}           270
[b]{2*,2*,1*}          270[/b]
{1,1,1,1,1}           1 (cube solved)
{1,1,1,1*,1*}        20
{1,1,1*,1*,1*}       20
[b]{1,1*,1*,1*,1*}      30
{1*,1*,1*,1*,1*}     10[/b]
```

The numbers on the right are the number of cases (out of 4860) I calculated. So simply divide the number of cases by the total (4860) to get the probability of each case. The cases you specifically mentioned would correspond to {2,2*,1*} or {2*,2*,1*} which add to 810 cases, or 1/6 of all cases.

The cases in bold require at least three 3-cycles if solved only with 3-cycles. Of course, there are other ways these cases could be solved. You'll have to decide for yourself what you really mean when you say a case will "require three cycles" to solve. For example, the case {1*,1*,1*,1*,1*} requires four 3-cycles to solve with only 3-cycles, but could be solved with a 5-twist alg or two 5-cycles.


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## Cubenovice (Jan 19, 2011)

THX bruce,

I meant indeed three 3-cycles.
Time to look into some additional algs!


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## okayama (Jan 22, 2011)

cuBerBruce said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > cuBerBruce said:
> ...


I looked back the thread (Weekly Comp 2010-21) and found that Teemu Tiinanen had also done a free insertion (solution here). 
There might be another member of the free insertion club.


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## irontwig (Jan 24, 2011)

Aw man, the best Ive done is 6 cancelled moves, but that was in a 27 move skeleton. :/


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## guusrs (Jan 24, 2011)

Anyone noticed the awesome results of the weekly competition for *10min linear solve* at Per's fewest move contest #329?

Scramble: F D2 L' B' F L F R2 L B' U2 D' L' D' F' R2 L2 D' U' F U D' L2 D B2 F U2 D R D'

Give it a try!

For results check out http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=329&format=speed&metric=htm
Well done Okayama (again!)

Gus


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## Cubenovice (Jan 24, 2011)

I was pretty amazed when I saw those results yesterday!

Especially since I did not see any "undone" moves in the solutions, where all move so obvious?
Personally I have to move back and forth through my solution *Alot* and that is why I am not participating in the 10 min comp.

Will have a go at this scramble later today!


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## Stini (Jan 24, 2011)

My 27-move solution from Helsinki Open 2011.

Scramble: L F2 L2 D2 R U2 R B2 R' B2 D2 F' D L2 D U2 F R D U' L
(Inverse scramble: L' U D' R' F' U2 D' L2 D' F D2 B2 R B2 R' U2 R' D2 L2 F2 L')

For the inverse scramble: 
Double x-cross: B' U' B L D' R2 F' L F (9)
F2L minus slot: U' B'* U2 B (13)
Leave 3 corners: R' F' U' F U2 R (19)

I totally failed the insertion. I don't actually remember where I did it but it didn't cancel any moves. I just picked a random spot with 8 moves in time trouble, therefore 27 moves in total. I think I had about 18 minutes left when I started searching for the insertion, so I really should have found something. First time I went through the solution I found an insertion that was supposed to cancel 3 moves but it was wrong.  Then I started to panic a bit and lost my focus, I still had to invert the solution in the end and I have some bad experiences debugging those for some reason. anyway after finishing I spent about 5 minutes on the insertion and easily found R D' R' U2 R D R' U2 at *, which cancels two moves. Probably one reason of failing was that the ink of my pen didn't stick to my stickers well, so it was easy to mess up the numbers in them. Another is of course that I haven't done much FMC lately.  anyway I'm happy with another sub-30 solution


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## DavidWoner (Jan 29, 2011)

Linear

F R U' D R' L' F D' R2 U2 R2 L2 D2 L' U' D2 L2 F' B R D L2 R2 B2 D' 

B' U B2 F' R' B' D B2 F' R2 F B' (12/12)
L2 D L2 D L2 D2 L2 (7/19)
B R2 F' R' F R' B' D2 (8/27)

A little under 1min lolscramble is lol


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## marco.garsed (Feb 1, 2011)

Scramble: D U F' D U' L2 F' R2 D2 R B' F L D R' F2 D2 U2 L B2 F2 D' L2 D B


Premoves: D L' D'

U B U' F' B2 L' D' L' U2 (double x-corss)
D2 B' D B R' D2 R D2 R (last 2 f2l couples)
[R] D R' D [R] ([R'] B' R F R' B R F') D2 R' (sune to fix edges + 2 moves canceling insertion)
D L' D' (premoves fixing)

33 HTM

I think that it's quite easy to find a better solution for the last 2 f2l couples... but I didn't


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## irontwig (Feb 3, 2011)

*List of 10 htm LL cases*

Just in case someone's interested.


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## guusrs (Feb 4, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Just in case someone's interested.


 
Hi, 
that's nice, but don't you need all 6, 7, 8, and 9 HTM cases as well for smooth FMC-usage?
Not all 9-HTM-cases are trivial!

Gus


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## irontwig (Feb 4, 2011)

Well, I made that mostly for myself, and I already know all 6-9 movers, but in case someone wants it:


R U B U' B' R' 
R U R' U R U2 R' 
R U' L' U R' U' L 
R B L' B L B2 R' 
R U B' R B R' U' R' 
R U R2 F R F2 U F 
R U R' U' R' F R F' 
R U R' F' L' U' L F 
R U2 R' U2 R' F R F' 
R B R' F R B' R' F' 
R U B' U' R' U R B R' 
R U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 
R U2 R D L' B2 L D' R2 
R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R 
R U2 R2 F R F' R U2 R' 
R D2 L2 F U2 L2 D2 B R 
R F' U2 F U2 F R2 F' R 
R B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 R2 
R B2 L2 D L D' L B2 R' 
R B' R F2 R' B R F2 R2 
R B' R B2 L' B L B2 R2 
R2 U F B' R2 F' B U R2 
R2 F2 B2 L2 D R2 F2 B2 L2 

(It's from a computer generated list I got from Teemu, that's why all algs begin with R.)


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## Cubenovice (Feb 7, 2011)

Good stuff, too bad I'm too lazy to learn a lot of algs...

BTW did you notice the similarity between Irontwigs and my solve in classic 331?
*14 identical moves up to F2L minus one corner!* Then it went downhill for me 

http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=331&format=official&metric=htm

L F B' L R U F2 B' L U2 B2 F' U' B2 R2 D' U2 L2 U2 L2 R2 U' D2 F' R' F' L F U2 R 

Irontwig
*L' B':U B2 L2 B2* [2x2x2]
*R' F R' D2 *[XX-cross]
*R2 U' R' U *[F2L missing one corner]
B' R' D' R.D B R [Leaving five corners]
Insert at dot: R' D L D' R D L' D' (Six moves cancel)
Insert at colon: B' L' F' L B L' F L (One move cancel)

the novice:
*L' B' U B2 L2 B2 *2x2x2 + pair
*R' F R' D2* 2x2x3
*R2 U' R' @ U *F2L-corner
R D' F D F'R' F' R # F leaves 4 corners
# insert R' B' R F2 R' B R F2 to cancel 3 moves
@ insert B U' F U B' U' F' U to cancel 1 move


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## irontwig (Feb 9, 2011)

Learning algs for FMC is imho way easier than for speed. E.g. I know 1/6-1/5 of ZBLL, but it feels like close to nothing to remember. I guess motivation helps a bit; I know that if I remember a LL alg in FMC I'll probably get a nice solve while in speed it's not too improbable for a newly learnt alg to make the time worse.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 9, 2011)

You got a point there, messing up an alg in FMC is not that bad, you can just try again ;-) or go ahead in the usual fashion.
I may actually look into some of these and see how they stick!


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## marco.garsed (Feb 9, 2011)

do you think that OLLs can be useful in FMC?


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## Rpotts (Feb 10, 2011)

really short ones, if you get "lucky" and find a short solution for f2l and get an LL that looks like 6 move T + Y perm or Sune + U perm, from the right angles.


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## irontwig (Feb 10, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> do you think that OLLs can be useful in FMC?


 
Yeah, sure if it leaves at most 3 corners xor 3 edges or you can use two ones to solve the entire LL.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 10, 2011)

Relating to the OLL question above I have some questions for the experts:

What techniques / algs / methods do you think are most valuable for FMC?
Perhaps a preferred order in which to learn the various things would be usefull too?

Techniques I think can be usefull (in no particular order):
Blockbuilding Petrus
Blockbuilding Heise, I like Heise for the moment!
Knowledge of different methods ZZ, Petrus, Heise, CFOP, Keyhole, HTA
Pseudo blocks / premoves
Inverse scrambles
NISS
Corner / edge commutators for insertions
EO methods
Petrus
Heise (I still have to study the more advanced / combined last steps)
full PLL 
full OLL (I use 2 look and know some dot / line cases)
LL algs (No knowledge whatsoever...)

Around EO I often take a quick look into which OLL I get without (or "half"...) EO and if OLL is not too bad I check the resulting PLL.
But unless it is a 6 move OLL followed by A or U perm I typically just do EO followed by whatever is needed.
For me this is often a Sune to fix EP and from there commutators for the remaining corners.

Perhaps I should make it a routine to check all OLL, you never know if it results in a PPL-skip.
Would it be worthwile to learn full OLL just for FMC? Or would I be better off studying the LL algs Irontwig posted recently?

Are there any other alg sets that may be of particular use?


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## irontwig (Feb 10, 2011)

If you're learning for FMC you might just learn them according to length. There are only 10 cases <9htm all of which are imo valuable for FMC. After that stuff like R U2 R D L' F2 L D' R2 can come in handy.


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## marco.garsed (Feb 10, 2011)

what's NISS?


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## irontwig (Feb 10, 2011)

It's when you turn a promising start that you can't find any continuation into to pre-moves for the inverse scramble:

S (Scramble) X (Nice start)
=>
X' S' F (Finish from inverse scramble)
=>
S' F X' (Solution for the inverse scramble)
=>
X F' S (Solution to regular scramble with pre-moves)
=>
S X F' (Corrected solution to regular scramble)


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## Cubenovice (Feb 10, 2011)

A discription by Guus can be found further up in this thread:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread/page19&highlight=FEWEST+MOVES

To understand how to properly apply NISS you should really walk through some NISS solves.
Start with analysing solves with a single switch, multiple switches are quite hard to follow.

Apart from this thread you may want to check out the weekly competitions on this forum and fmc.mustcube.net to find detailled FMC solutions.


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## marco.garsed (Feb 10, 2011)

wow! seems cool! too many times happened that i could find a great start but a damn bad LL... I'll try it..


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## irontwig (Feb 10, 2011)

It won't help with bad LLs; as the inverse LL case will be just as bad. You would have to invert your solution to (say) F2L-1 rather than the entire F2L.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 11, 2011)

I just wanted to share this little Sune matrix routine that I seem to have develloped over time.

If EO gives me two adjecent solved edges I always apply the following Sune-matrix to check for a good LL:






*

S = Sune R U R’ U R U2 R’
S' = Inverse of Sune
AS = AntiSune R’ U’ R U’ R’ U2 R
AS' = Inverse of Antisune*

So with two adjecent edges solved I check all four Sunes mentioned since they will all solve EP but have a different effect on corners.
The lines in the center indicate how to position the two adjecent edges at the start of the alg.

Anyone else doing something similar?


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## marco.garsed (Feb 12, 2011)

what a lucky solve!

B' D2 F' R U F' U2 F2 U' R (not mine )
D' F' D F L D L'
R' D' R D' R' D2 R D

25 HTM


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## guusrs (Feb 12, 2011)

irontwig said:


> It won't help with bad LLs; as the inverse LL case will be just as bad. You would have to invert your solution to (say) F2L-1 rather than the entire F2L.


 
I think if you aim on a sub 30 solution, the maximum of useful pre-scramble moves is ±15 moves (0.5 * 30) . If using more than 50% pre-moves regular and inverse solution converge too much, so they will have the same difficulty and using NISS is a waste of time. In about 30 NISS solutions I did so far my maximum number of pre-moves was 12!.

Gus


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## Kenneth (Feb 13, 2011)

Alg useful for FMC, it even got room for a insert : F R E D L U . D

At the dot, insert N-PLL


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## Kenneth (Feb 14, 2011)

Trondheim FMC : F U2 R2 D2 F R2 B' U2 F L2 D L' U R' B L' F D2 L' F' R

Lucky scramble?

I have not tried it yet but white looks pretty easy for start...

Tommy 'the lucky bastard' Holm had 33 using more or less speedsolving, Sune + PLL-skip for LL. (U L U B D2 B' F2 R D R F' R' (F2) U' R U2 R' U2 L' U' L2 U L2 U' L2 F' L' U' F U' F' U2 F U2)

hmm, (F2) must be z2

Coinman (the other Tommy, my bro) had this start : U L D' R' U D' F2 R' B R2 . F D2 B' but ended in DNF.

I placed the dot there, you can insert any D at that point.


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## okayama (Feb 14, 2011)

Kenneth said:


> Trondheim FMC : F U2 R2 D2 F R2 B' U2 F L2 D L' U R' B L' F D2 L' F' R
> 
> Lucky scramble?


 
Hmm, looks nice, but tricky...

Some of my tries:
[1]
2x2x2 block: U L U L2 F L2
2x2x3 block: R' D' R' F2
F2L minus 1 slot: R2 D' R'
Almost all: D' F D2 F2 R F R' D

[2]
1st 2x2x1 block: F2 U2 B
2nd 2x2x1 block: D
Make 2x2x3 block: L B' L' R2

[3]
Pre-scramble: U2 R2 D2

2x2x2 block: F2 D
2x2x3 block: U L U'
Orient edges: U' L2 U2 B' U'
Make tripod: B' L2 B L' B2 L B
All but 3 corners: L B' L' B
Correction: U2 * R2 D2

Insert at *: U L' U' R2 U L U' R2

Solution: F2 D U L U2 L2 U2 B' U' B' L2 B L' B2 L B L B' L' B U' L' U' R2 U L U' D2 (28 HTM)

[4]
Pre-scramble: L2 R2 D2

2x2x2 block: F2 D
2x2x3 block: U2 B L2
Orient edges: B L' R B L R2 U' R
All but 3 corners: U' B U2 B' U' B U B'

[5]
Pre-scramble: L R2 D2

2x2x2 block: F2 D
F2L minus 1 slot: B U2 B L B L2
More 2x2x1 block: L U' R' F' U' F
All but 3 corners: U L' U R U' B U B'

[6]
(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: R B' R' L2 B' U2 D' F2

All but 3c3e: D' R' D R' L2 U (or D2 L2 R U2 R U' also leaves 3c3e)
Correction: R B' R' L' + L' B' U2 D' * F2

Insert at *: D B2 D' F D B2 D' F'
Insert at +: F E F2 E' F

Solution: F' D B2 D' F' D B2 U2 B L F' E F2 E' F' L R B R' U' L2 R D' R D (27 HTM)

Might getting Sub 25 be not easy?


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## Kenneth (Feb 14, 2011)

Yes, sometimes there are too many good blocks to start from, trying to preserve all makes many moves.

I did a cube explorer search on Holm's double xx-cross, he had 16 from there and the optimal solution is 14. Not bad =)

Forgot to say, Morten had the winning solution on the scramble (31), but I have not got it.

Edit, I just asked him, he will post it...

Mortens FMC solution:

scramble: F U2 R2 D2 F R2 B' U2 F L2 D L' U R' B L' F D2 L' F' R
x-cross: R' B R B2 L F' L' R U' R' Uw'
F2L: F' U' B' U' B U2 F2 U' F' U2 F' U' F
LL: R' F' U' F U R U2

Well, the only LL that beats this is a compleate skip


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## guusrs (Feb 19, 2011)

I tried and got 28 moves, not "that easy" scramble!


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## Kenneth (Feb 26, 2011)

*LS coms*

I don't know if this idea has been up before but.. While doing the last slot, you got the pair readymade in the U-layer and it is time to put it down. Then use a 3-cycle 1x1x2 block commutator to solve the pair and affect the last layer. Two of the blocks are fixed, the place where the pair is and where it shall go, but the last one is free, so you can alter the com depending on the current case.

A nice situation is all EO and two of the edges sitting in U are relativly solved, then cycle the pair and the other two edges and you will have LS and all edges solved in 7-9 moves (or better if you can cancle some). Example L' Dw2 L U L' Dw2 L

Use setups like Bw to orient 2 edges while cycling. (edges are the easiest to control using this style but of course also corners works).

In one attempt of about 25 where I tried this I got a compleate LL-skip from solving LS  (I forced edges so it was a 1:324 corner skip)


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## irontwig (Feb 26, 2011)

Yeah sure sometimes one can use a pair cycle to leave three corners, and sometimes you get really lucky:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...lve-quot-Game!&p=535454&viewfull=1#post535454


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## Stini (Feb 26, 2011)

Pair commutators are pretty common in Heise, but I almost never remember to try those in FMC though.  I tend to use pair commutators only when they solve the whole cube.

Edit: Hmm, it just came to me that you could use pair commutators to solve some non-obvious cases with a setup move, for example U' [L F L', D'] U. I wonder why I haven't thought of that before, it's pretty obvious actually. Recognition isn't that bad because the setup move must make a pair and you must also have another pair and a pseudo pair. I'm somewhat used to recognize pseudo pairs without NISS anyway so it's not a problem.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 26, 2011)

I just walked through irontwigs 24 mover linked to above, I wouldn't have know what to do...
It's about time I look into pair commutators, so it's back to Ryan's page!

Stini,
what's keeping you from participating in the weekly comps?


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## Stini (Feb 27, 2011)

Cubenovice: I just haven't felt like doing FMC lately, it feels more like chore atm.

Btw pair commutators aren't that difficult really, first you have to notice that pairs can be interchangeable by a face turn or by a double layer turn. I guess face turn is more common in practice. So you must have two interchangeable pairs and then you just insert the third pair like with corner commutators. In irontwig's solution the two interchangeable pairs are on the F-face. He inserts the third pair with L b2 L'. Notice how nothing else changes on the F-face except one pair is replaced by another. You could solve the case like F [D' R' D, F] F', where the insertion D' R' D is a bit different, but that's one move longer because you first setup to an 8-move case with F (one move is cancelled in the end). One example of a pair commutator where the pairs are interchangeable by a double layer turn could be [R U' R', d]. I haven't really experimented much with pair commutators, so there might be some tricky cases, but usually I have no problem figuring out how to solve them.


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## Kenneth (Feb 28, 2011)

Simple speaking, put a 1x2 in a F2L slot that is not the one you are working on (and do it in such a way you don't move the goal slot, if it is FR don't do R or F).

Example: start with a L and then move in the pair to swap to this position using d', remove its content from F2L using L' and put another 1x2 down using U' L. Then move the 'virtual slot' back to it's place using d and restore setups (in this case it is just a L' )

L d' L' U' L d L'  ... the same using single face moves : L U' F' U' F U L' 

But you can also swap diagonal using d2, like this : L d2 L' U' L d2 L'  ... this is the fast way because moving to single faces you get L U2 R' U R U2 L' 

--------
Also other types of comutators works, but mabye not as intuitive as the simple method above...

R U Lw U' R' U Lw' [U'] ... no explain, but think Niklas =)

--------
Pretty one : Bw L' d2 L U L' d2 L U' Bw' ... 

--------
Edit: Aproach for linear FMC, block build F2L up to LS but ignore if one of the pairs are in the wrong slot. Then, it this happen, pair up the pair that should be where that one is (improve LL first) and follow it up with a 3-cycle to compleate F2L.

Scramble : F' U2 F2 R' U F' R2 F' L F L2 U2 R' U' L (15f*) ... setup XX-cross + one wrongly solved pair, the rest is random.

Solution (one attempt, got 29 moves, don't peek until you tried =) 


Spoiler



Pair Up : U R U2 R' (4)
Improve LL (EO) : F U F' (3, 7)
Pairs : d' R U' R' d R U R' (8, 15)

To reach ZBLL

LL :
Sune minus one move : B U B' U B U2 B' (6, 21)
Niklas : B2 R B L' B' R' B L (8, 29)


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## okayama (Feb 28, 2011)

Kenneth said:


> Scramble : F' U2 F2 R' U F' R2 F' L F L2 U2 R' U' L (15f*) ... setup XX-cross + one wrongly solved pair, the rest is random.





Spoiler



How about

All but 3 c/e pairs: U' R U' B F U' B' U F' U' R' U' , or
All but 3 corners: B U2 B2 R B U' R2 U2 R U ?
Insertions are left to readers.


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## mrCage (Mar 1, 2011)

Stini said:


> Cubenovice: I just haven't felt like doing FMC lately, it feels more like chore atm.
> 
> Btw pair commutators aren't that difficult really, first you have to notice that pairs can be interchangeable by a face turn or by a double layer turn. I guess face turn is more common in practice. So you must have two interchangeable pairs and then you just insert the third pair like with corner commutators. In irontwig's solution the two interchangeable pairs are on the F-face. He inserts the third pair with L b2 L'. Notice how nothing else changes on the F-face except one pair is replaced by another. You could solve the case like F [D' R' D, F] F', where the insertion D' R' D is a bit different, but that's one move longer because you first setup to an 8-move case with F (one move is cancelled in the end). One example of a pair commutator where the pairs are interchangeable by a double layer turn could be [R U' R', d]. I haven't really experimented much with pair commutators, so there might be some tricky cases, but usually I have no problem figuring out how to solve them.


 
Pair commutators are actually quite trivial. They can be done on corners, edges or ce-pairs for that matter. One can achieve 3-cycle or double swap (or others with more experience...)

Per


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## Brest (Mar 4, 2011)

Greetings FMC pros.

I have read about half of this thread and, while I'm not close to understanding exactly how the more advanced techniques work, I am beginning to grasp the concepts involved. The 1st time I formed a pseudo block and then figured out the pre-move to make it an actual block, I began to understand why that technique works. Before this I just knew that it worked because I had read that it did.

I can block build, but not during a speed solve and not close to using optimal moves. Unless a block is very simple to build, I find it hard to "see" how to bring the pieces together. This could be because I am primarily a CFOP solver, so I am used to breaking the parts down to cross +pairs. I've looked at Petrus and Roux, and understand the former far more than the latter. 

Are there any specific ways to practice block building?
Do you have any advise on how to break the CFOP habit of pairing?

-*-*-*-*-*-

Here is a recent attempt I made:

B2 F' U L' D2 R2 L' B2 U B F L F2 R' L B' D' B2 L' U L' B2 L' U2 B2

U B' U F L F' R' F' D F' R
L' F L F'
D' B D B' D L' D' L2 D L'
D B' L B L'
D L D L' D L D2 L'

I don't yet understand how to complete the F2L to end up with a mostly finished LL. This solve was as close as any I've had, and it took me a long time to find that ending, and even longer to find that start. I haven't yet got to the stage of trying to insert a cycle into the solve to generate cancellations.

-*-*-*-*-*-

Here is a 5 move XX-cross & 8 move 3rd+4th pair:

F2 U' B2 D' L2 D B2 U R2 U2 L2 B L' D2 F D2 R' B' F' R B

F' R B L' R2
D' R D L D L' D' R'

I couldn't find a great way to finish the F2L, but it would be great to see what can be done with this scramble.

-*-*-*-*-*-

Even though I am struggling to comprehend the advanced techniques you guys use, I do find the FM challenge interesting. Most of the solves I've read in this thread are amazing and I look forward to finish reading the 2nd half.

I will appreciate any advice and teaching given. Thanks for your time.


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## irontwig (Mar 4, 2011)

You could have continued that five move double x-cross with F' U' R' B R B' U D2 F D2 which leaves three corners and edges after 15 moves. It's basically just keyhole with some luckiness.


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## Kenneth (Mar 4, 2011)

Brest said:


> Greetings FMC pros. A.S.O....



Just practice block building, skill comes from experience.

Nice endings is a combination of trying several ways from the first blocks, using moves you now will improve the situation and pure luck.

Edit, nice ends... also from knowing the optimal alg that solves the case, the more algs you know the more cases are nice =)


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## okayama (Mar 4, 2011)

Brest said:


> -*-*-*-*-*-
> 
> Here is a 5 move XX-cross & 8 move 3rd+4th pair:
> 
> ...


Solution: L2 F' R' F L2 F' R B' R' B R B R B R B R D2 R' B' L' D2 (22 HTM)

Pre-scramble: L' D

2x2x2 block: F'
More 2x2x1 block: B' R' B
Expand to 3x2x1: R B
F2L minus 1 slot: R B R
More 2x2x1 block: B R D2 R' B'
All but 3 corners: L' D L
Premoves correction: L' D

Insert at the beginning: L2 F' R' F L2 F' R F


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## Cubenovice (Mar 4, 2011)

Hi Brest, good to see you here!
Don't forget to check the other link too 

In addition to the other proposals:
You could aslo sneak in some extra moves into the X cross to get better EO
F' R B L' F' R' D2 F R'
D' B' D' B L D' L'
now you have various options:
L' F L F' leaves 2 EO that you can check for OLL: Fat Antisune leaves G-perm...
D L D' L' gives Sune but bad edge permutation
D2 L D2 L' gives two adjecent edges. From here you can try 4 different sunes that will permute edges
Antisune L' D' L D' L' D2 L plus D leaves three corners after 25 moves
solve corners: 
Direct solve: B' D R D' L2 D R' D' L2 B = 35 HTM

insertions:
label the remaining three cycle with small stickers 1, 2 and 3
solve, scramble ans walk move by move through the solution to check for basic 8 move commutators
at end of scramble -
F' here's one: U' D2 U R U' D2 U R' cancels 2 moves R' with the R that is coming up
R -
B -
L' another one, F' D F U2 F' D' F U2 
F' another one, L U' L' D' L U L' D
R' another one, B' U2 B D' B' U2 B D cancels 1 move with the upcoming D2
etc etc 

If I take the one after the initial F' I have already improved my solution by 4 moves!
Instead of 10 moves for set up - comm -undo setup I have placed the corners in 6 moves.

Offcourse I do not always write down the ful commutators, If I see a 3 cycle I scan the start and end move.
Only if they start / end with the pre- / post-comm moves I will write them down.
Exception: the very first 8 mover I do write down just in case I do not find cancellations further down the solve.




R B L' F' R'


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## Brest (Mar 4, 2011)

Many replies. Sweet!



irontwig said:


> You could have continued that five move double x-cross with F' U' R' B R B' U D2 F D2 which leaves three corners and edges after 15 moves. It's basically just keyhole with some luckiness.


Nice! I've come to expect intriguing solves / sequences / insertions from you, and you didn't let me down. I like how you say it's "basically just keyhole". Basic, but in a super-advanced way! :tu 

How would you solve those last two 3-cycles? Try to find insertions with cancellations?



Kenneth said:


> Just practice block building, skill comes from experience.
> 
> Nice endings is a combination of trying several ways from the first blocks, using moves you now will improve the situation and pure luck.
> 
> Edit, nice ends... also from knowing the optimal alg that solves the case, the more algs you know the more cases are nice =)


Well, I know the mantra of *Practice Practice Practice* however I was hoping there might be specific ways to help with block building. You are all far more advanced than I am, so when you were learning did you find ways which helped your understanding of block building?

When searching for nice endings, do you find that you can predict what certain sequences will produce? Or is it more a case of "try as much as you can" until you find something good? Hit it with a hammer until it fits!



okayama said:


> Solution: L2 F' R' F L2 F' R B' R' B R B R B R B R D2 R' B' L' D2 (22 HTM)
> 
> Pre-scramble: L' D
> 
> ...


OMG! That is epic. I mean this as a compliment, but are you some kind of robot?!? 
I've just read the part of this thread where you first joined the forums and I have really enjoyed studying your solves. Although I don't completely understand everything you do, it sure does help to see your solves.



Cubenovice said:


> Hi Brest, good to see you here!
> Don't forget to check the other link too
> 
> In addition to the other proposals:
> ...


Dude, thank you! I was going to ask for a brief "how to" on inserting cycles, and you've preempted my question. When using stickers, how do you apply them to fix orientation as well as permutation?

Although I know what they are, I'm not proficient at commutators. I can see how they work, and I understand the way they are constructed, what I don't understand is how you know what sequence to use for a given case. Does this come down to knowing how each commutator effects the cube, like any algorithm? Or is it more a case of complete understanding will give you the knowledge to apply a comm for any case, without knowing it as a specific algorithm?


----------



## Cubenovice (Mar 4, 2011)

Brest said:


> When using stickers, how do you apply them to fix orientation as well as permutation?



In my example I had three corners left:
orange-green-yellow
green-red-yellow
blue-orange-yellow
the above order is random, also started the "name" with a random color, do not ready anything into it

Take a random sticker on one of the corners:
I picked orange on the orange-green-yellow cubie, I put a small tag on it with no 1
I know where this sticker *should* be on a solved cube.
On the sticker that is now occupying that spot I place a tag no 2 (this is the yellow sticker on the blue-orange-yellow cubie)
I look where no 2 is supposed to be: that sticker gets tag no 3 (this is the yellow sticker on the green-red-yellow cubie)

Note: with tag I mean *I put a real sticker *with 1, 2, 3 onto the cube's stickers.
This way you can easily keep track of the pieces when you walk trhough your solution.

Some important notes: always check if your cycle is closed
Check where the last tag needs to go, you should find no1 occupying this spot!
If this is not the case there are several options:
- you stickered wrong
- there is one or more corners twisted in place
- there are corners swapped
- the last two mean that you will have an additional cycle to solve




Brest said:


> Does this come down to knowing how each commutator effects the cube, like any algorithm? Or is it more a case of complete understanding will give you the knowledge to apply a comm for any case, without knowing it as a specific algorithm?



Both are the same ;-)
If you understand comms you know how they affect the cube and thus can apply them to any case. 
A great resource on comms is the BH tutorial thread in the BLD forum.
The basic 8 mover is typically enough. I cannot identify all the comm types mentioned in the tutorial but I can solve all of them with the 8 mover and set ups.

And the good thing about working with insertions is that it is almost impossible not to have an 8 mover in there.
But the fun really starts when moves are cancelled.
My record is 5 moves cancel in an 8 mover.
Some people have even had "free" insertions, cancelling the full 8 moves!

Commutator:
you do something,
you do something else,
you do the inverse of something,
you do the inverse of something else
and then you have done something...


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## Kenneth (Mar 5, 2011)

Brest said:


> Well, I know the mantra of *Practice Practice Practice* however I was hoping there might be specific ways to help with block building. You are all far more advanced than I am, so when you were learning did you find ways which helped your understanding of block building?
> 
> When searching for nice endings, do you find that you can predict what certain sequences will produce? Or is it more a case of "try as much as you can" until you find something good? Hit it with a hammer until it fits!



Many FMC newbies reads Heise to learn about blocks : http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/heise_method.html

To me making a block is most often a multi step job, first I do a 1x2 block of a corner and a edge, then the same but a edge and a centre that fits to the first block for a 2x2 and another edge-centre if it is a 2x2x2. When the blocks are done I put them together but not just like that, I try diffrent ways (if possible) to improve the situation for the next block (usally a 2x2 to exapand to 2x2x3).

I 'cheat' a bit, only seldomly I start from anything but yellow. So recognition is easy because I work in my standard colour. If I do like green, then it is much harder to spot the cases. The drawback is that it is not always the best side to start from. If there are no blocks in the scramble it does not make much difference thought...

If you have a good skeleton but a crappy ending, then you can step solve the blocks and look for a 'empty face'. An empty face is a side that does not contain any of the pices that belongs to the blocks, so you can turn it freely. That way you can have three ends that are diffrent from the first with just one extra move. If this is not possible the next option is to make such a side, but more moves then.

----
There is a lot of hammering 

But of course, you force a lot on EO (fliped edges in LL usally sucks), a bit on EP but not that much on the corners. Three orientations makes corners much harder to control than edges, and also, solving the corners last is easier than solving the edges last (insertions).

As a CFOP user you know what R' F R F' does to LL edges compared to U R U' R' when solving the last pair. This is the most basic ZBF2L but there are nearly 500 cases, and the solutions are often intuitive.

ZBF2L; forming - placing the last pair and orient LL-edges, all in one go.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 13, 2011)

From the weekly 10:

3x3x3 Fewest Moves
1. B R B' D F' R2 B' L' B2 L B L' U2 L B U2

On Inverse scramble
B R B' D' *F'* # R2 makes a 2x2x3 minus 1corner *6*
*L'* B' U2 B2 L B' U2 makes F2L + EO minus 2 corners *13*
B' L' *B L'* @ B' L2 B L' Antisune permutes two edges and solves a corner, ALF leaves 5 corners *21*

At # insert *F* R F' L F R' F' *L'* to cancel 3 moves, note that I have to reverse the order of R2 L' in the original solution to cancel the 3rd move L' L' into L2
At @ insert *L B* L' F2 L B' L' F2 to cancel 3 moves 

B R B' D' *F' F* R F' L F R' F' *L'* R2 *L'* B' U2 B2 L B' U2 B' L' *B L' L B* L' F2 L B' L' F2 B' L2 B L' 

gives B R B' D' R F' L F R' F' *L2* R2 B' U2 B2 L B' U2 B' L' *B2* L' F2 L B' L' F2 B' L2 B L' as *31 HTM *solution for the inverse scramble

Final solution:
L B' L2 B F2 L B L' F2 L B2 L B U2 B L' B2 U2 B R2 L2 F R F' L' F R' D B R' B'


So, Okyama mentioned the similarity of my start with the scramble.

I didn't even notice but he's definately got a point.

The initial six moves (apart from the 4th) are indeed identical to the scramble but how can one NOT see the three 2x1 blocks that make the 2x2x2?

Most of the time I actually do not even look at the cube during scrambling so I can honestly say that I did not see the block near the end of the scramble.

What do the experts in this thread think about this?
If this would give me a DNF or DQ in an official event I'll ask Mats to change the reults.

In a competition, if you noticed a similar situation, would you deliberately take a different start?


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## marco.garsed (Mar 13, 2011)

insertionts rulez!

Scramble: L2 D2 U' L' B L U L' R B D2 B F2 L R U F' R D2 U L' R' B2 D L2



Solve:

F R F' U L'
D U2 L
D2 F D' U2 L U R U' L'
D2 M' D2 L'
x' R2 D2 R2
B R D L' D' L
D'

Explanation:

F R F' U L' 
D U2 L 
D2 F D' U' [R] ([R'] [U'] L U R U' L' ) [U'] 
(D2 M' D2 L' [R] x') 
R D2 R' 
[R'] B R D L' D' L 
D' 


32 HTM


I think that I could find something better changing my start but I love how the insertions give me a 8 moves LL!


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## irontwig (Mar 13, 2011)

I'm afraid that the problem with solutions being somewhat similar to scrambles can only be solved with long scrambles. I think 30 random moves that Fredlund uses are resonable in both length and randomness (i.e. very close to random state scrambles). His 10 minute scrambles seem to be quite hand picked though.


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## guusrs (Mar 13, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> From the weekly 10:
> 
> 3x3x3 Fewest Moves
> 1. B R B' D F' R2 B' L' B2 L B L' U2 L B U2
> ...


 
Hi,

As long as you can explain how you came up with those moves its allowed to have some moves similarity with the scramble.

If a jury asks you about it, you will answer:

_B R B' D' *F'* # R2 makes a 2x2x3 minus 1corner *6*_

Which make it acceptable you did *not* make use of the scramble and your solve would be legal.

Gus


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## irontwig (Mar 13, 2011)

Well this solution is "explained" but it's just the same inverse scramble with two corner cycles:

L2 B R B' [Square]
L2 D F' R2 B' [X-cross] 
L' B2 L B L' U2 L B [F2L]
L' B L' F2 L B' L' F2 L2 U2 [LL]

Note that I'm not saying that Cubenovice was cheating I'm just pointing out problems with the current regulations.


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## marco.garsed (Mar 15, 2011)

I think it's also a problem of short scramble... inverse scramble, with 18-19 moves scramble, is often the optimal solution and in FMC we try to get as close as possible to this one..


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## okayama (Mar 15, 2011)

@Cubenovice: I didn't intend to disqualify your solution, but just noticed the similarity.
I also saw B R B' for making a 2x2x1 block and actually used in my tries.



irontwig said:


> I'm afraid that the problem with solutions being somewhat similar to scrambles can only be solved with long scrambles. I think 30 random moves that Fredlund uses are resonable in both length and randomness (i.e. very close to random state scrambles). His 10 minute scrambles seem to be quite hand picked though.





irontwig said:


> Well this solution is "explained" but it's just the same inverse scramble with two corner cycles:
> 
> L2 B R B' [Square]
> L2 D F' R2 B' [X-cross]
> ...


 
I'm of the same opinion as Jernqvist.
Even if you make a solution based on the scramble, sometimes you can (try to) explain the solution.
See also this post. I made the solution based on the scramble, but I explained somehow.
There is no doubt explanation is important to prove your innocence, but explanation doesn't automatically mean the innocence.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks for your reply!
I thought I remembered a previous example of a scramble based solution but could not find it.

I agree that slightly longer scrambles could be a means of reducing the possible impact of scramble based solutions.
Afterall, a sub 30 solution in a competition wil get you a top 33 world ranking.

This seems very (too...) feasible by scramble based solutions now that the WCA is using optimal scrambles. 

Could the scrambling software the WCA uses be programmed as such that the scrambled *state* is actually random but the scramble to get there is relatively long.


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## Lucas Garron (Mar 16, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Could the scrambling software the WCA uses be programmed as such that the scrambled *state* is actually random but the scramble to get there is relatively long.


Interesting idea, but how about suggesting this somewhere where it can be taken seriously instead of being overlooked?


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## Kenneth (Mar 16, 2011)

[wiki]LPELL[/wiki]

A method I made mostly for FMC. I will fix the mirror cases later (done now) and some day I may do all (2x48) cases where the edges are unoriented.


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## Brest (Mar 16, 2011)

2011-10 weekly competition.
Scramble: B R B' D F' R2 B' L' B2 L B L' U2 L B U2
Inverse: U2 B' L' U2 L B' L' B2 L B R2 F D' B R' B' 

I've broken this up with spoilers as I have written a wall of text.

The solution I submitted:
U L' U' R B R L F B2 R' B' R D2 F D' F' R' F' B R2 F B' D L2 F' D' F L2 B' U B' U' B (33)


Spoiler



Pre move: B'
Scramble: B R B' D F' R2 B' L' B2 L B L' U2 L B U2
Pseudo 2x2x3: U L' U' R B R L F B (find pre move B')
EO & 2 pairs: B R' B' R D2 F D' F' R'
Insert Edge: F' B R2 F B'
J Perm: D L2 F' D' F L2 B' U B' U'
Cancel pre move: B

I'm sure that there is a better solution from that pseudo 2x2x3, but this is what I found within the time limit. I wasn't really happy with the ending, and I needed the practice so I continued. Just after the time limit expired, I realized I could cancel three moves just be using a different J perm. :fp

D L2 F' D' F L2 B' U B' U' B becomes B' D F' D2 B D' B' D2 F B 

Drop the D which is just an ADL (adjust D layer), first move cancels with the move before, last move cancels with the premove.

U L' U' R B R L F B2 R' B' R D2 F D' F' R' F' B R2 F B2 D F' D2 B D' B' D2 F (30)

So silly to miss that...


More practice, this time with a different start.


Spoiler



I was frustrated with missing those easy cancels, and obviously I need more practice, so I looked for a different start. 
Here is a 19 move F2L, which was fun to build, but I didn't find a great ending for it:
R2 F R' D L' B D2 R F D' F D B R' B' L2 B' L' B

So instead I made this 2x2x3 pseudo block:
(Pre-move L) R2 F R' D' L' B R B R2 B' 

which also creates another two CE pairs, so I was fairly happy with it. I decided to try using the inverse scramble with the 2x2x3 as premoves. This is NISS, right?

(B R2 B' R' B' L D R F' R2) U2 B' L' U2 L B' L' B2 L B R2 F D' B R' B'

Which revealed some really sweet orientations. The original pre move (L') aligns the 1x2x2; however a D' before will create another 1x2x2 block and F will complete F2L minus one slot. To try and preserve the last pair as an easy insertion, I settled on these moves (D' L' D2 F) which replaced the original pre-move when returning to the scramble.

(F' D2 L D) B R B' D F' R2 B' L' B2 L B L' U2 L B U2
R2 F R' D' L' B R B R2 B'

Insert the 4th pair
L D L'

Upon insertion I recognized that the OLL would create a PLL skip!
B' D' B' L B L' D B

Sequence together:
R2 F R' D' L' B R B R2 B'
L D L'
B' D' B' L B L' D B
F' D2 L D
(25)

This was all mad skillz, no luck whatsoever.  Still, I'm really happy finding this.


Upon a closer inspection of the inverse, there is a really sweet finish to the F2L:

(B R2 B' R' B' L D R F' R2) U2 B' L' U2 L B' L' B2 L B R2 F D' B R' B'

D' L' D R' D2 R F

This leaves 3 corners after ADL!

D2 L' F' R F L F' R' F

Invert and sequence:
R2 F R' D' L' B R B R2 B' F' R F L' F' R' F L D2 F' R' D2 R D' L D (26)

After a bunch of help from you guys, especially from Cubenovice and irontwig, I found my first commutator insertion! Yeah!

Leave 3 corners:
R2 F R' D' L' B R B R2 B' D2 F' R' D2 R D' L D



Spoiler



R2 F (1) R' D' L' (2) B (3) R B R2 B'
D2 (4) F' (5) R' D2 (6) R D' (7) L D

Insertions:
1 F U' F' D' F U F' D
2 L' F' R' F L F' R F
3 F L F' R F L' F' R'
4 R F L F' R' F L' F'
5 F' U' F D' F' U F D
6 F' U' F D' F' U F D
7 B' L' F L B L' F' L


I did not find an insertion which canceled more than a single move, so the best solution I found in all this is still 25 HTM; however this solution seems a lot less lucky!

Can anyone find an insertion with more than a single cancellation?
After the 2x2x3 block, are there any other improvements to this solution?


If you read all that, thank you for your time. Any help or constructive comments are appreciated.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 17, 2011)

Hi Brest, you're doing a great job!

Don't worry about missing those cancellations and the long J perm.
You missed a few moves in this solve but due to this learning experience you wil cancel lots and lots in the future.

Do not have time to look for insertions but what I see:
- you use both R U R' and R U' R' style which is good
- you do not have any double turns in your commutators, they can be in either the A or B part, perhaps there where none, perhaps you did not check?


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## irontwig (Mar 17, 2011)

Your (3) insertion or R F' L F R' F' L' F after your first move both cancel two moves resulting in 24 moves.


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## Kenneth (Mar 18, 2011)

Fellow communists, there are two terms I miss in the wiki, both essential for advanced FMC; [wiki]Skeleton[/wiki] and [wiki]Insertion[/wiki].

Any FMC expert who cares to explain these?


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## irontwig (Mar 18, 2011)

Kenneth said:


> Fellow communists, there are two terms I miss in the wiki, both essential for advanced FMC; [wiki]Skeleton[/wiki] and [wiki]Insertion[/wiki].
> 
> Any FMC expert who cares to explain these?



http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Fewest_Moves_Techniques


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## Kenneth (Mar 18, 2011)

Ok, redirecting is an option of course...


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## Kenneth (Mar 22, 2011)

Yay, I had 28 in FMC classic 338, no luck, just skillz and a nice LL case 

I won't post my solution now, the comp is still ongoing...


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## Attila (Mar 22, 2011)

I believe, maybe useful, if i write a longer explanation to my last solution (mustcube 337. round, classic).
Scramble: U' F2 D' F' L' B U' B2 U B' U' L' F' U' F2 L2 B' R2 F R2 F U' B' R U' R' D2 U L R2 
Solution: B2DR’B’D2U2FLD’U’R’U2R’BF2D2L2U’DRU’R’LB2 
First time i need a short corners-algo, usually i search something premove, if the scramble it seems too hard. In this case i found this premoves for normal scramble: DB
B2D’B’D2B (Guimond)
B2D’R2F2
Corners solve, without premoves:
B2D’B’D2B’D’R2F2DB
Corners solve for inverse scramble: (inverse of previous solve)
B’D’F2R2DBD2BDB2
difference from the previous solve , to be more edges solved:
B’ D’ F2 R2 D B D2 B D B2 only the corners solve
B2Mb d’ M’ F2 R2 d2D’ b d2 B corners -2 moves and 5 edges solve,
Then i write this, without centers move:
B2L’RUR’D’UL2D2F2B’RU2R.
The second move (M) does not change the first five edges position, but must to insert, to be lucky end.
The next step is obvious, solve more 3 edges:
UD setup moves , L’F’U2D2BR 3 edges algo, then a lucky E slice skip, therefore had previous M move.


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## Cool Frog (Mar 22, 2011)

I don't know where to ask this but. What would you do for the Commutator that does this...
FUR>BUL>FDL
My solution is a 4 move setup, 8 move commutator then undo setup.


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 22, 2011)

Cool Frog said:


> I don't know where to ask this but. What would you do for the Commutator that does this...
> FUR>BUL>FDL
> My solution is a 4 move setup, 8 move commutator then undo setup.


 
That's what Chris Hardwick calls a "Per Special". Optimal in HTM is 12 moves. The solution he does for that particular one would be something like F U2 F' U2 F' L2 F U2 F U2 F' L2.

Edit: If you want to understand how it works, he explains it here.


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## irontwig (Mar 22, 2011)

You won't ever need to be able to solve that case in a FMC solve though.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 22, 2011)

A very sexy (But as anti-optimal as can be) solution: 

F - L' B' L B - L' B' L B - L' B' L B - F2 - L' B' L B - L' B' L B - L' B' L B - F2 - F'

But offcourse I would perform a cube rotation so the sexy move parts execute as L' U' L U or R U R' U'

Ehm yes, I actually do use this as it is mindless execution, you don't even need to inverse the sexy move part ;-)


EDIT: silly me, by starting with B and going all D' B' D B I can cancel an additional move, this is the FMC thread afterall!


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## marco.garsed (Mar 22, 2011)

Scramble: R2 B' L2 D' B' U L D2 U' L2 B' F2 D U' L' R B' D' L2 F R'

Solve:
B2 F R' F L B [U'] * ('  F U' B U F' [U']) (x-cross + one f2l couple + 3-cycle insertion)
 D F' U2 F (third f2l)
U' B L B' (fourth f2l + one cross-edge)
R U R' F2 D' L U' L' U L' D F2 (G perm :S)
U2 (auf)

32 HTM

6 moves canceled!*


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## Erzz (Mar 22, 2011)

Wide turns are counted as one move right?

First try at FMC, using TF and trying to optimize as much as possible

Scramble: B2 U' B2 R2 B2 D' L2 U F2 L2 U' F' D L U' L2 D' U2 B R U'
Solution: y2 F' L2 U' L' U' F' U' F U' L U2 L' U' B u2 b U b' y2 M' U2 M y U F2 M' U' M U F2 y' R U' R2 U2 R U R' U R2 U R' D2 y' x' L2 D2 L U L' D2 L U' L (53)


Spoiler



y2 F' *L* - 2x2x1 block (2)
*L* U' L' U' F' U' F - Add a corner plus solve a middle layer edge (8)
U' L U2 L' U' B - Finish the triangle and solve a middle layer edge (14)
u2 b U b' - Finish the middle layer (18)
This seemed good so far, but then I didn't know how to proceed, so proceeded normally.
y2 M' U2 M - Insert edge (23, 21)
y U F2 M' U' M U F2 - Insert other edge and orientate edges (32, 28)
y' R U' R2 U2 R U R' U R2 U R' - Insert corner and orientate corners (43, 39)
D2 - Fix D layer (44, 40)
y' x' L2 D2 L U L' D2 L U L - A-perm (53, 49)


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 23, 2011)

irontwig said:


> You won't ever need to be able to solve that case in a FMC solve though.


 
True - no matter how awful it is, surely there's a way to get rid of some of those moves. I'm bad enough at insertions sometimes that I've had a case where the best I could do with 3 corners was 9 moves, though. (Embarrassing, I know.)


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## Cubenovice (Mar 23, 2011)

Erzz said:


> Wide turns are counted as one move right?



Right!

I do not know how the average movecount of TF compares to other speedsolving methods but for FMC you typically use a low movecount method. In practice this (most of the time) means blockbuilding methods like Petrus and Heise.

Two other comments on your solve:
- Try to write down your solution without cube rotations ans double layer turns. You may have some hidden cancellations isn there
- Instead of performing the A-perm at the end you can look for an insertion of the corner cycle, possibly cancelling moves.


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## Kenneth (Mar 23, 2011)

Erzz said:


> Solution: y2 . y2 . y . y' . y' x' . (53)





Cubenovice said:


> - Try to write down your solution without cube rotations ans double layer turns.



The trick is to look at the centre of the face that is rotating. This way you can orient the cube any how but always be able to know wich side you are turning.

Examples, assuming white U and green F (official colour sheme and orientation), cube rotate: x' y z2 y' z' (pretend you did some steps and oriented like this).

Then do R' but look at the centre at the R-side, it is blue, that is the B-face (B as in blue, R is red =) So you notate it as a B'
Next move you do is a f (wide), then it is the face at the back that is turning, in this case it is white = U, so write U
Your third move is again a R', but after the F-wide that centre is not blue anymore but red = R-side, notate R'

So, you did R' f R' but write B' U R'

Test : 1x1x1 scramble #94: z y2 z' y2 z x' y' z' x' z'

1; After that, what do you got for U and F? (the rest are fixed, we only need two adjacent sides to know the orientation)
2; If you now do d' b (wide moves), how would you notate that?

_Make sure you know both answers before looking at the spolier =)_


Spoiler



1; green and red = F and R
2; green is on top, (the opposite side of what is currently on D) and then white moves in on front, (opposite of B), notate F' U


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## MaeLSTRoM (Mar 23, 2011)

Mike Hughey said:


> That's what Chris Hardwick calls a "Per Special". Optimal in HTM is 12 moves. The solution he does for that particular one would be something like F U2 F' U2 F' L2 F U2 F U2 F' L2.
> 
> Edit: If you want to understand how it works, he explains it here.



Can't you just use [D - Aperm w/o first or last R turn - D'] - 10HTM
or for the other way of cycling, [D' - CCW Aperm w/ first or last R turn - D]


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## Tim Reynolds (Mar 25, 2011)

All right, can someone explain to me how to do an insertion of more than 3 corners? Specifically, can you find something for the below? (Warning: this is a skeleton to the in-progress weekly competition.)



Spoiler



Scramble: U2 B D' B R U2 R U' R2 B D R2 U L B R D' R
Skeleton: L D L' D / B2 R2 B' R2 U2 / R' U R2 U' / B R B R' (18)



I'll post my full solution in the weekly comp thread (2011-12) when I finish some BLD stuff.

So I know the idea is to do 2 insertions. I tried this and basically flailed for 15 minutes not succeeding. For a cycle of the form (A B C A+) (D-), where the first cycle means it should go to A but one spot clockwise, one insertion has to be like (D A B)--the point is that it has to involve D and solve some other piece. So I guess that means there are 9 different options for the first cycle. Hmm, I guess writing all this out while the clock was not running wasn't too hard. Any thoughts from people more experienced in insertions on more than 3 pieces?


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## Mike Hughey (Mar 25, 2011)

I'd love to see what the experts say about this. Since, in my experience, the best insertions come with cycles that are already good to begin with, I'd probably first check all of the 9 possible cycles and see if any of them are 8 moves, and focus on just those (to cut down on the possibilities). And I'd probably check them one at a time. And if there were several, I might simply look at the 8 move result for each one and see how good the remaining cycle is. If it's an 8 mover followed by another 8 mover, my past experience (which admittedly isn't much) seems to indicate that that particular sequence would be a really good one to look for insertions with.

For yours, I see that U' L' D' L U L' D L gives a nice 8 move second one: R' U' L U R U' L' U. I saw that one right away. So I'd probably first work on that set of insertions and see what I could find.


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## irontwig (Mar 25, 2011)

With 4 corners which of one is twisted I mark the cycle [X] and [A1i->B2ii->C3iii->D4iv] where X is the twisted one and the A and D stickers is on the same corner. With one twisted corner you only really have two options: a. Insert twisted corner in a place where a oriented one is (off by one move) b. Insert at corner in the same layer as the twisted one. Looking for more than just 8-movers does rarely produce better results and just wastes time (and requires more thinking. KISS!). For me looking for one corner cycle typically takes about 5 minutes. After I've done the first cycle I typically just choose (one of the) best insertion and then continue with the second. And again here one might get a slightly better result by checking more possibilities, but the clock is ticking...

My try at your skeleton:



Spoiler



D R2 D' L D R2 L' D B' D B' U2 B D' B' U2 R2 B' R2 U2 R' U R2 U' B R B R' (28)

L.D L' D B2:R2 B' R2 U2 R' U R2 U' B R B R'

.=L' D R2 D' L D R2 D' Quite annoying for me since I work from the end.
:=B D B' U2 B D' B' U2 Finally they came into a 8 move position!


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## Cubenovice (Mar 25, 2011)

At work so no opportunity to go through the actual solve…

My stickers for this situation:
“X” or “O” for the twisted corner
“1” , “2” and “3” for the “open” cycle. I do not put 2 stickers on the same corner but make a note on my paper:
Cycle: 1 -2 -3 – 1 “target sticker color”
This tells me that 3 needs to go to that particular color on the “1” corner

My solving approach: 
-1- place a single corner and just make sure the twisted corner is in the interchange part
-2- solve the remaining three corners

At the 1st stage there are a lot of opportunities as the orientation of the twisted corner does not matter. 
Make sure to look further than the “sticker” position, look at the twisted corner as a “cubie” that needs to be interchanged.

In case of twisted corner(s) I actually re-sticker the cycle when switching to the 2nd stage to avoid errors.


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## Kenneth (Mar 25, 2011)

Or you know the [wiki]L4C[/wiki] :

_Alg here_


Spoiler



R U2 R' L' U2 R [*] R' U2 L R U2 R' [AUF] ... ez case, I use it for COLL, 2x2x2 CLL and even big cube edge pairs (r,l and only U2 then)

* = U or U' depending on cycle direction, U2 makes a H case.


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## cuBerBruce (Mar 27, 2011)

There was a 19-move solution (one move from optimal) submitted to Fewest Moves Challenge #338, with no explanation as to the derivation. The moves seem pretty random and don't seem to be solving much in the beginning half. It seems to me likely to have been found by computer. Anyone else have thoughts about this?

Scramble: F B2 R2 L' F' U' D' R2 L B2 F' D' L R2 F2 U F' U' L D' U' F' L2 R2 D' R2 U2 R F' L2
Solution: D R F' L B2 U2 D F' R' U2 D B U2 F2 L B2 R L2 D2


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## Cubenovice (Mar 27, 2011)

Hmm...

that is a steep improvement from his/her last blog:

http://howtosolvea3x3rubixcube.blogspot.com

Friday, 18 February 2011

F2L Method 
A woman, obviously an expert on speedcubing (the art of solving a 3x3x3 fast - very fast), Jessica Fridrich is often associated with this method. I really don't know anything about her except she can solve it in less than seventeen seconds. 
Posted by Aditya Srinivasulu at 01:01

F2L Method 
Well, I'm not much of an expert in the F2L, but I like to use some of the algorithms from the F2L in my method, and look, I can solve it in under 2 minutes.
Posted by Aditya Srinivasulu at 00:57

Rubik's Cube 
Hey guys! Have you been trying to solve your original 3x3x3 Rubik's Cube? Want Help? Ok.


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## irontwig (Mar 27, 2011)

cuBerBruce said:


> There was a 19-move solution (one move from optimal) submitted to Fewest Moves Challenge #338, with no explanation as to the derivation. The moves seem pretty random and don't seem to be solving much in the beginning half. It seems to me likely to have been found by computer. Anyone else have thoughts about this?
> 
> Scramble: F B2 R2 L' F' U' D' R2 L B2 F' D' L R2 F2 U F' U' L D' U' F' L2 R2 D' R2 U2 R F' L2
> Solution: D R F' L B2 U2 D F' R' U2 D B U2 F2 L B2 R L2 D2


 
Imo obvious Kociemba since the ending is in {R,L,U2,D2,F2,B2}


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## Attila (Mar 27, 2011)

cuBerBruce said:


> There was a 19-move solution (one move from optimal) submitted to Fewest Moves Challenge #338, with no explanation as to the derivation. The moves seem pretty random and don't seem to be solving much in the beginning half. It seems to me likely to have been found by computer. Anyone else have thoughts about this?
> 
> Scramble: F B2 R2 L' F' U' D' R2 L B2 F' D' L R2 F2 U F' U' L D' U' F' L2 R2 D' R2 U2 R F' L2
> Solution: D R F' L B2 U2 D F' R' U2 D B U2 F2 L B2 R L2 D2


 
Obviously computer solution, if not explanation. I think, should be ignored.


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## guusrs (Mar 27, 2011)

Attila said:


> Obviously computer solution, if not explanation. I think, should be ignored.



Yes, ignore! I already did tat at first sight!

Gus


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## okayama (Mar 28, 2011)

cuBerBruce said:


> There was a 19-move solution (one move from optimal) submitted to Fewest Moves Challenge #338, with no explanation as to the derivation. The moves seem pretty random and don't seem to be solving much in the beginning half. It seems to me likely to have been found by computer. Anyone else have thoughts about this?
> 
> Scramble: F B2 R2 L' F' U' D' R2 L B2 F' D' L R2 F2 U F' U' L D' U' F' L2 R2 D' R2 U2 R F' L2
> Solution: D R F' L B2 U2 D F' R' U2 D B U2 F2 L B2 R L2 D2



The solution can be obtained by using Cube Explorer (I used ver. 4.64).
The step to reproduce:


Enter Maneuver and push "Apply"
Push "Add and Solve" (then 20 HTM solution is displayed, F' D2 ... D L2)
Push the arrow button next to "optimal"
He might have used Cube Explorer in this way.

I would not like to say that any solution by Kociemba-like method should be disqualified. Actually I tried to use such a method in FMC #310, explained here, and Per also used such a method and got 19 HTM in FMC #102. However, I believe that obtaining a short solution by such a method in *1-hour* is too difficult for usual human beings.


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## marco.garsed (Mar 28, 2011)

Scramble: U' F' D R2 D' U' B' L' D2 U' B' F L' B2 L' D' U2 L' R2 U F2


U' B L' F' (x-cross)
U B2 U' R [B'] (* U F' U' B' U F [U']) (double x-cross + insertion)
U' B U2 B' R' (third f2l)
U B U B' U' R' U2 R (fixing some LL blocks)

27 HTM

quite simple scramble... finally I got a sub30 solution!

what do you think about it?*


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## irontwig (Mar 28, 2011)

Nice, the first one feels great doesn't it? My ~15 minute try is pretty similar: 

U' B L' F'
U B2 U2 R2 U R B' [B' L2 B,R2] R' U R
B' U' R' U R B U2 R2 (28)


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## Attila (Mar 28, 2011)

okayama said:


> I would not like to say that any solution by Kociemba-like method should be disqualified.


You’re right, i also found sometimes like solution, which ending is similar to Kociemba two-phase method (for example this weekly comp.) But i (as everyone) try clearly explain, how i was thinking. His explanation (wohoo!)  is not acceptable. Of course for Aditya it is possible explain here his solution, if he knows.


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## Kenneth (Mar 28, 2011)

Ye, that's a cheater, no doubt...

-------
Optimal scrambles for LS + LL (50% are inverses). Nice if you like to test how optimal you are for the last parts.



Spoiler



U2 B R' F2 D2 L2 D2 F2 R B' U (11f*)
U' F R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F2 R (11f*)
U2 B R' F2 D2 L2 D2 F2 R B' U (11f*)
R' F2 R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 F' U (11f*)

U L' U2 L F' U' F U' L F' L' F (12f*)
U' R U L R' D F D' L' F U' F' (12f*)
F U F' L D F' D' R L' U' R' U (12f*)
F' L F L' U F' U F L' U2 L U' (12f*)

U2 F U2 F' U' F R' U' F2 U F R U' (13f*)
U' F' U F U' F' U2 F U2 R U R' U (13f*)
U' F' U B' R2 D' F' D R2 B U' F U2 (13f*)
U R' F' U' F2 U R F' U F U2 F' U2 (13f*)
U' R U' R' U2 F' U2 F U F' U' F U (13f*)
U2 F' U B' R2 D' F D R2 B U' F U (13f*)

R2 B' R' B R U2 R2 U' R U R U2 R2 U' (14f*)
F2 L' U' L U F L' U' L U L' U' L F (14f*)
U' R2 F' R B' R D2 F' B' L F2 L D2 B2 (14f*)
F2 L F' B2 R2 D' R2 F B2 L' F U2 F U (14f*)
R L U2 R2 F' L D F2 D' F R F2 L2 U' (14f*)
R U L2 D B2 D' R' B L U B2 U B L (14f*)
U2 F2 L F D U F U' F' D' L2 U2 L F (14f*)
U2 R U L' B L U2 B' U' R' B' U B U2 (14f*)
U R2 U2 R' U' R' U R2 U2 R' B' R B R2 (14f*)
R' F R D F' U F2 D' L' F U' F' L F2 (14f*)
F' U' F2 U2 L F2 L' U2 F2 U' F R U R' (14f*)
F' L' U L U' L' U L F' U' L' U L F2 (14f*)
U L2 F2 R' F' D F2 D' L' F R2 U2 L' R' (14f*)
R' F D' F D F2 R' F2 U B U' F2 B' R2 (14f*)
U2 B' U' B R U B U2 L' B' L U' R' U2 (14f*)
B2 D2 L' F2 L' B F D2 R' B R' F R2 U (14f*)
U' F' U' F U B' R' F' R B R' F2 R F' (14f*)
F2 L' F U F' L D F2 U' F D' R' F' R (14f*)
L' B' U' B2 U' L' B' R D B2 D' L2 U' R' (14f*)
R2 B F2 U B' U' F2 R F2 D' F' D F' R (14f*)
U' F' U2 F' L B2 F' R2 D R2 B2 F L' F2 (14f*)
F R' F2 R B' R' F R B U' F' U F U (14f*)
R U' R' F' U F2 U2 L F2 L' U2 F2 U F (14f*)
F' L' U2 L2 D F U F' U' D' F' L' F2 U2 (14f*)

U' R U R' B L' B' L B' U2 B U L U L' (15f*)
B' L2 F' R B2 F' U2 B L' B2 F R2 D2 U F (15f*)
B2 R' B U2 L' U R' U' L R2 U2 B' R B2 U (15f*)
F' U B U' B' F U' R2 U2 R F' U2 F R2 U2 (15f*)
U F U' B' U F U' L U F U' L' B F U2 (15f*)
F' U L' U L2 F2 U L' F L U' F2 L' F U2 (15f*)
F R' F' R2 U2 R' U' F' U L' U2 L U2 F U (15f*)
B F' U' F U B' F' L' B' U2 B U' L U2 F (15f*)
U F' R' D F2 D' R U2 L' U L' U2 L2 U F (15f*)
F' U2 B' R' F2 R' F2 R2 B F U R U R' U2 (15f*)
U R U' B U L U2 L' B2 U' R U B U' R2 (15f*)
U' B2 R' B U2 R2 L' U R U' L U2 B' R B2 (15f*)
U2 R2 F' U2 F R' U2 R2 U F' B U B' U' F (15f*)
U' F' U2 L' U2 L U' F U R U2 R2 F R F' (15f*)
F' U' D2 R2 F' B2 L B' U2 F B2 R' F L2 B (15f*)
U2 R U' R' U' F' B' R2 F2 R F2 R B U2 F (15f*)
F' U2 L' U B' U2 B L F B U' F' U F B' (15f*)
U F' L' B' R' U' R U B U2 L2 F' L' F2 U2 (15f*)
R' F2 R2 U' R' F' L' R U' R' U2 L2 F L' U (15f*)
R U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B R B' U B2 U' B2 R2 U2 (15f*)
L U' L' U' B' U2 B L' B L B' R U' R' U (15f*)
U' L F' L2 U2 R U R' L F R U R2 F2 R (15f*)
F' U' L2 U2 L U' L U2 R' D F2 D' R F U' (15f*)
U2 F' B' L U F' U' L' U F' U' B U F' U' (15f*)
F2 L2 D2 B2 L' F L2 B L F2 R' F' U2 R' U (15f*)
U2 F' L F2 U L' F' L U' F2 L2 U' L U' F (15f*)
U' R U2 F R F2 L' B' L2 F' L B2 D2 L2 F2 (15f*)
U F' U2 B F L2 F2 L' F2 L' B' R U' R' U' (15f*)
R2 U B' U' R' U B2 L U2 L' U' B' U R' U' (15f*)
U2 R2 B2 U B2 U' B R' B' U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 R' (15f*)
U2 F2 L F L2 U2 B' U' R' U R B L F U' (15f*)
U R U R' B L F2 L F2 L2 F' B' U2 F U' (15f*)



I'm collecting the cases because I like to know the average number of moves for this part, currently it is ~14 and it won't change much even if I add more cases. Getting the optimal scrambles is just a bonus.

-------
Mini challange, I randomly picked two scrambles from the list.

5 minute linear : U2 B' U' B R U B U2 L' B' L U' R' U2 (14f*)
30 minute traditional : F' U' D2 R2 F' B2 L B' U2 F B2 R' F L2 B (15f*)



Spoiler



5 minute linear: (took less than 1 minute)
EO: U' R' F R F' (5)
LS + EP: U F' U' F (4, 9)
A-PLL: L F' L B2 L' F L B2 L2 (9, 18)

30 min: (I used ~20)
Solution : R U' R' U F' U' L' U2 F U2 B' U2 B U2 F' U2 F R F' L F R' (22)

Using premoves: L F (I tried R' and F before this, all sets up to pseudo XXX cross)

Pair-EO: R U' R' U F' U' L' (7)
LS-EP-1 corner: U2 F U2 B' U2 B U2 F' (8, 15) ... a shorter LS-EP is possible but this com saves a corner.
AUF-premoves: U2 . L F (3, 18)

Leaves L3C on F (Niklas).

Insert: . = F R F' L F R' (6-2, 22) ... Nice to have the premoves in the com.

This was like the worst scramble, I did not even try to solve it without premoves


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## DavidWoner (Mar 28, 2011)

Tim Reynolds said:


> All right, can someone explain to me how to do an insertion of more than 3 corners? Specifically, can you find something for the below? (Warning: this is a skeleton to the in-progress weekly competition.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
My attempt:


Spoiler



L D L' D / B2 R2 B' R2 U2, / R' U R2. U' / B R B R'

,= U L2 U' R U L2 U' R'
.= R' D2 R U' R' D2 R U

Results in a 28 move solution of:

L D L' D B2 R2 B' R2 U' L2 U' R U L2 U' R2 U R D2 R U' R' D2 R B R B R'



With the cycle of A B C A+, (Z/+/-) I just went though and checked A B (Z/+/-), B C (Z/+/-), C A+ (Z/+/-) for each of the positions, finding the <RDU> cycle first. Then it is just a standard 3cycle insertion.


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## cuBerBruce (Mar 28, 2011)

Tim Reynolds said:


> All right, can someone explain to me how to do an insertion of more than 3 corners?
> ...


 


Kenneth said:


> Or you know the [wiki]L4C[/wiki] :
> 
> _Alg here_
> 
> ...


Hmm... Kenneth's alg is not optimal.


Spoiler



L' U2 L F' U2 F' R F U2 F' R' F2 U2 (13f*)



For a twisted corner and a "twisted 3-cycle," the best case direct solve is 12 moves. I get the following distribution of moves for these cases (for a fixed direction of the twisted corner):

```
12f*:     33
13f*:    369
14f*:    222
15f*:      6
```
The 33 12-move cases are:
(These are generator sequences for cases with a clockwise-twisted corner, or solver sequences for cases with a counterclockwise-twisted corner.


Spoiler



U2 L F' R B L2 D2 B R' F L B2 (12f*) 
B2 U F D' B R2 U2 B D F' U L2 (12f*) 
R B2 D2 R U L' D F2 R2 D L U' (12f*) 
B2 D2 R F' L B R2 U2 B L' F R (12f*) 
F U2 R2 F D' B U F2 L2 U B' D (12f*) 
F U2 R2 F L B' R D2 F2 R B L' (12f*) 
L' U R D2 F2 R U' L D R2 B2 D (12f*) 
D L2 F2 D B U' F R2 D2 F U B' (12f*) 
L2 B R F' L D2 B2 L F R' B U2 (12f*) 
U2 R2 F L B' R D2 F2 R B L' F (12f*) 
R B' L F R2 D2 F L' B R F2 U2 (12f*) 
F U' B L2 D2 B U F' D R2 B2 D (12f*) 
L2 B D' F U B2 R2 U F' D B U2 (12f*) 
U2 L D R' U F2 L2 U R D' L B2 (12f*) 
D L2 F2 D R' U L D2 B2 L U' R (12f*) 
U2 R2 F D' B U F2 L2 U B' D F (12f*) 
D L' U B2 R2 U L D' R F2 U2 R (12f*) 
F R B' L U2 F2 L B R' F D2 L2 (12f*) 
U' B D F2 R2 D B' U F D2 L2 F (12f*) 
B2 U R' D L U2 F2 L D' R U L2 (12f*) 
B' L F R2 D2 F L' B R F2 U2 R (12f*) 
B' L U2 F2 L B R' F D2 L2 F R (12f*) 
L2 F2 D R' U L D2 B2 L U' R D (12f*) 
R D L2 F2 D R' U L D2 B2 L U' (12f*) 
U' B L2 D2 B U F' D R2 B2 D F (12f*) 
R B2 D2 R F' L B R2 U2 B L' F (12f*) 
B2 D2 R U L' D F2 R2 D L U' R (12f*) 
R D L' U B2 R2 U L D' R F2 U2 (12f*) 
D F U2 R2 F D' B U F2 L2 U B' (12f*) 
F R B2 D2 R F' L B R2 U2 B L' (12f*) 
D F U' B L2 D2 B U F' D R2 B2 (12f*) 
L' U B2 R2 U L D' R F2 U2 R D (12f*) 
R B' L U2 F2 L B R' F D2 L2 F (12f*)


The distribution for the subset of cases with the four corners in the same layer are:

```
13f*:     12
14f*:      6
```

I note that solving using two 3-cycle insertions, you have nine cases for the flexible insertion (as Tim mentioned), so you would like to get a really high cancellation on that insertion (maybe around 4-5 moves), if you have the time to check enough possibilities. (You need to allow enough time for the 2nd insertion, of course.)


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## sa11297 (Mar 29, 2011)

i am a complete noob when it comes to FMC but i am interested so can someone answer a few questions?
what is probably the best FMC method? (like the fridrich of FMC)
how do you start to learn FMC? (if that makes any sense)
how should i practice and improve?
how did the world record solver get such a low move count? a bit of luck?
what method should i start with? i currently use fridrich and thats all i know (except pochmann for bld)
and can you add any other helpful info? or link me to a site full of info? (i have seen the wiki but there is still a lot of info, to much to comprehend.


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## Kenneth (Mar 29, 2011)

cuBerBruce said:


> Hmm... Kenneth's alg is not optimal.



Na, but easy to remember, the reason I know an alg at all =)



sa11297 said:


> i am a complete noob when it comes to FMC but i am interested so can someone answer a few questions?
> what is probably the best FMC method? (like the fridrich of FMC)
> how do you start to learn FMC? (if that makes any sense)
> how should i practice and improve?
> ...


 
There is no real method, improvisation is the best. But, people mostly uses block building for the first parts (Heise, Petrus), then try to solve as much as possible to reach a case you can solve using a commutator. Hopefully the commutator is possible to insert in the skeleton to cancle moves, else you just do it last.

Just do it, make a normal cross F2L solve. If you reach a bad LL, then do it again but the pairs in a diffrent order, and you may get a better LL-case. FMC is simply trying the same scrable several times to find the shortest possible way to solve it.

Just parctise, improvement comes from experience.

Yes, luck.

Start with your Fridrich then, but try to make X-crosses or double x-crosses before the pairs (x cross is block building, a start to more advanced blocks). Blocks and commutators saves moves, if you keep doing FMC you will eventually learn =)

Link to Heises page about coms : http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/commutators.html

Also check out his other "fundamental.." pages


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## Cubenovice (Mar 29, 2011)

And read this thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques

And also the very thread we are in right now has very good info!

Finally you have the weekly comp. thread where you will find multiple FMC solutions, with explanations! for the same scramble.

That's a whole lot of FMC pages but make sure to browse through them!


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## okayama (Mar 29, 2011)

From Weekly competition 2011-12:



guusrs said:


> fmc: L F D' B U B' D2 B U' B'. L' D L' B L U B2 U R B' U' B' U B2 R' B2 R B' (*28*)
> 
> all but 3 corners: L F D * L' D L' B L U B2 U R B' U' B' U B2 R' B2 R B' (21)
> at * D2 B U B' D2 B U' B', 1 move cancels
> ...


I found the following skeleton very quickly, maybe within 5 min (still not sub 25, though).
I'd like to team up with you in a competition, ha-ha. 

Scramble: U2 B D' B R U2 R U' R2 B D R2 U L B R D' R
Solution: L F D L' D B' R U R' U2 B' R B R' U R U D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D U2 (25 HTM)

Pre-scramble: U2 B2 U2

2x2x2 block: L F D L' D (Guus's start)
2x2x3 block: B'
F2L minus 1 slot: R U R' U2
More 2x2x1 block: B' R B
All but 3 corners: R' U R U'
Correction: U2 * B2 U2

Insert at *: D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2

Good luck on your next competition, Guus!


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## Cubenovice (Mar 29, 2011)

Got to try this one this evening....
Will be competing with Guus this saturday, my first FMC!

Pfff... How do you guys do this?

L F D L' D Guus' start
B U' F R D R2 D' F' R U' R B2 16 moves make F2L + EO minus corner (or minus slot) depending what you take as D face

Two versions from here:
working with orange as bottom layer
D R' U' R D' R' U
B' R' B R' B' R2 B leaves 3 corners after 30 moves

or
working with green as bottom layer
U B' U B R' U R U'
L' B2 L B L' B L B leaves 3 corners after 32 moves

Somehow having 4 edges oriented too soon throws me competely off...

Oh well, I got a 29 with my own solution


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## marco.garsed (Mar 30, 2011)

okayama said:


> From Weekly competition 2011-12:
> 
> 
> I found the following skeleton very quickly, maybe within 5 min (still not sub 25, though).
> ...


 
wow great solve... how did you get the premoves??


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## okayama (Mar 30, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> wow great solve... how did you get the premoves??


 
Nothing special. Just think.
With U2, you can see a 2x2x1 block on the B face (after the first 5-move).
B2 compensates for the pseudoness of the 2x2x3 block.
U2 compensates for the pseudoness of the F2L minus 1 slot.
Then I used "U2 B2 U2" for the explanation, but trained FMC players might not need all of the premoves to understand.


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## kinch2002 (Mar 30, 2011)

French Open Scramble
U2 F' D2 U2 F2 U2 F' L2 R2 F R' D R B2 R' D2 L R' F L2 U

My 27 move solution:


Spoiler



Full solution: B2 U' F2 U B U' F' R' U F2 B2 U B U B L B' U L U L U2 L' U2 L B' L' (27 HTM)
Normal scramble
2x2x2: B' U' F R' U F2
Switch to inverse (PM: F2 U' R F' U B)
Pseudo 2x2x3: L B (use premove B to correct)
Switch back to normal (PM: B' L')
2x2x3: B' . U' F R' U F2 B'
Some EO and make pair: B' U B
Finish EO and make F2L-1: U B L B' U L2
Finish F2L leaving 3 corners: L' U L U2 L' U2 L
Insert B' U' F2 U B U' F2 U at . to cancel 4 moves


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## irontwig (Mar 30, 2011)

Found this okay skeleton, but the insertions were poop and I couldn't be bothered to look for something different:
Edit: Had a idea, but it didn't lead anything great (31)



Spoiler



B' D R2 F' D B2
U' R' U2:.
F U F U' R2 U2 R' F' U'

.=D B' R' B R D' Conjugated 6 move LL since I saw that D2 brings all the unsolved pieces into the same layer
:=U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U R2


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## marco.garsed (Mar 30, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> French Open Scramble
> U2 F' D2 U2 F2 U2 F' L2 R2 F R' D R B2 R' D2 L R' F L2 U
> 
> My 27 move solution:
> ...


 
yeah great solve! I definitly can't use premoves -.-''

can you explain how to use them? you seem addicted to premoves! XD


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## mrCage (Apr 2, 2011)

There must be a solution to the following conflicting situations.

a) Short optimised scramble where solutions are sometimes being accused of copying parts of the scramble.
b) Long and cumbersome scramble. (Who wants a long solution?)

I think in the old days, the scramble format with repeating parts was working quite well. Who is in favor of returning to this format??

Per


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## okayama (Apr 3, 2011)

mrCage said:


> There must be a solution to the following conflicting situations.
> 
> a) Short optimised scramble where solutions are sometimes being accused of copying parts of the scramble.
> b) Long and cumbersome scramble. (Who wants a long solution?)
> ...



I don't wish to return to the long scramble because it's time-consuming, and becomes mistakable. I know the (A B C)*4 format is better than (A B C D E F G H I) to reduce mistakes and a time to scramble, but still not like it.

Here are samples of my scramble time:

[FMC #100 scramble]
L' R' D R (B2 D2 R B F2)*4 U B R' D2 (L' R2 U' F U')*4 F2 L F B
Mean of 3: 26.97, 24.46, 24.97 = *25.5* (but got a wrong scramble in the 3rd one)

[FMC #200 scramble]
F2 U2 D2 F' B D U' B F R B R' U L D2 L D U' L U2 L' F B2 D2 B' L2 F B2 L' F'
Mean of 3: 13.81, 13.43, 14.22 = *13.82* (all scrambles are correct)

[Weekly competition 2011-01 scramble]
R' U' B2 D2 B' F L U R2 B' U F2 L' F2 R' F2 R' B
Mean of 3: 8.09, 8.28, 8.22 = *8.20* (all scrambles are correct)

As a matter of fact, the time to scramble is one of crucial factors in 1-hour solve, so I don't like the classic way. Doubled-time needed, and mistakable...


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## Cubenovice (Apr 4, 2011)

FMC Nemo Open (Amsterdam) 2 april 2011
scramble: R D2 F2 L2 R' U2 L' B' R' D' U2 L U2 L B2 U2 R' D B2

FMC fail at 38 moves DNF due to a notation error that I could not fix in time.
First 15 min or so was a complete black out, then needed a PLL skip to get to 38 which would still have been 5th place.

Not quite the way I had envisioned my first official FMC.

Then after assisting in the workshops I had another look: *28 HTM in ~ 35 min*



Spoiler



Since my inital 4 move 2x2x2 did not have a nice continuation I used it as premoves for the inverse scramble

premoves to make 2x2x2 on inverse scramble; U' R' B L'
then added an additional premove L2 during the solve

premoves: L2 U' R' B L'
F L F' L' D B L B' L D' L B' L' makes F2L and EO minus slot
D B' D B D leaves three corners after 23 moves

Wrote the inverse as solution for the normal scramble and then stickered for insertion:
L . B' R U L2
D' B' D' B D'
L B L' D L' B L' B' D' L F L' F'

At . insert L' F L B2 L' F' L B2 to cancel 3 moves

After the very first move I found an 8 mover with 3 cancellations: total 28 moves
I was too pissed to look for another insertion.

solution:
F L B2 L' F' L B R U L2 D' B' D' B D'L B L' D L' B L' B' D' L F L' F' = 28 HTM



Since my official result was so terrible I'd like to see what the experts can make from my initial 2x2x2 start.

L B' R U makes 2x2x2
and now what...


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## DavidWoner (Apr 4, 2011)

mrCage said:


> a) Short optimised scramble where solutions are sometimes being accused of copying parts of the scramble.


 
Have delegates/judges who actually know enough about FMC to not make foolish accusations. All of the accusations I can recall were just ignorance on the part of the judge/delegate on what constitutes actually being related to the scramble.


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## Brest (Apr 4, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> L B' R U makes 2x2x2
> and now what...


Bad luck at the competition, you're sure to do better next time.

Adding a L2 into your 4 move 2x2x2 creates a CE pair. Building that into a pseudo block creates another CE pair. Inserting that pair is only 4 moves, where it's probable at least one move will cancel while solving the edges.

Premove B
L B' R L2 U
B L' D' L' B2
L D L' D2

Which is 15 moves for F2L minus one slot.


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## mrCage (Apr 4, 2011)

As posted before, The solution SHOULD be related to the scarmble: it should solve it!!
Actually, as i see it, it is hard to make a solution "related" to the scramble unless it's simply reversal. Of course, unless the scramble is not simply a random sequence of turns ...:tu

Per


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 5, 2011)

mrCage said:


> Actually, as i see it, it is hard to make a solution "related" to the scramble unless it's simply reversal.



I think this solution for Weekly competition 2011-01 scramble (scramble taken from okayama's post) would have to be considered related to the scramble:

Scramble: R' U' B2 D2 B' F L U R2 B' U F2 L' F2 R' F2 R' B
Solution: B' R F2 R F2 L F2 U' B R2 U' L' F' B D2 L' B' L U B2 R B (22f)


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## kidrock2007 (Apr 5, 2011)

Scramble: R' U' B2 *D2 B' F L U R2 B' U F2 L' F2 R' F2 R' B*
Solution: *B' R F2 R F2 L F2 U' B R2 U' L' F' B D2* L' B' L U B2 R B (22f) 
reverse


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 5, 2011)

kidrock2007 said:


> Scramble: R' U' B2 *D2 B' F L U R2 B' U F2 L' F2 R' F2 R' B*
> Solution: *B' R F2 R F2 L F2 U' B R2 U' L' F' B D2* L' B' L U B2 R B (22f)
> reverse


 
Not quite. (Of course, the parts you bolded are reverse, but the whole solution is not simply the reverse of the scramble. That was the point.)


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## irontwig (Apr 9, 2011)

For two weeks in a row now I've been able to solve the first 14 pieces (imo) very efficiently, but then used more than half of the solution lenght to solve the last 6:

D2 U2 L2 U2 F' R' U L2 D2 U2 F' U2 B' R2 U' B D U'
R B2 D' B2 R2 B' L2 D L' R' B' R B2 R (14) [Leaving 2C4E]

U2 R2 D2 U L' F2 U' L U2 B D' L' U R' F' R2 U
B U2 F R' U' D F L' F' L2 B' U' L2 D2 L (15) [Leaving 4C2E]

In both cases 32htm is the number to beat.


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## Tim Major (Apr 11, 2011)

L' B2 L B' D2 U2 F2 R' F' R2 B' F2 R' F' D2 L F U2 D R' D2 R2 L' D2 F2

I got this while filming 3speed, and had a 10.02 with a triple X-cross.
y L2 D U' R' F D2
U' R2 d' R' F R
y' U R' U'2 R U R' U' R
U L' U' B U L U' r' U' r
U R' U2 R' D' R U' R' D R U R U' R' U' R U'2

47 moves for the full solution, with a very shaky and locky Rperm.
Can someone improve after my start? I'm pretty happy with my 2x2x3 judged basically off inspection. If I found such a short F2L-1 for a speedsolve, I'm sure with some thought it could be a bit shorter, and maybe continuing on green rather than yellow would've been better.


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## Tim Major (Apr 11, 2011)

Johnny.d.p said:


> Follow mum... Asian grocery shopping after dentist, cubing in seafood store DROP THE CUBE AND LOOSE CENTRE CAP! FMC!


 
I think you are mistaking the FMC thread (Fewest Moves Contest/Challenge) for the FMCL thread (F*** My Cubing Life).
What type of cube? I have a few spare centre caps.


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## Attila (Apr 17, 2011)

Guus: A continue for your corners first solution:
The 13. move changed R' instead of R, then
B2R'BF'U
B'L2U'FB'R
BF'L2B'U2F'


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## Kynit (Apr 17, 2011)

Tried FMC for the first time today. It's hard!

R L U' L' U2 R' L' D L' R U' R2 D L B' U2 D L F R D U' B R' D' 

U' L' U B R' L' D' L' (8)
R' U R2 F2 (12)
U' B U' B' F R' F' (19)
R' U' R U R' U' (25)
U' R U2 R' U' (30-1 = 29)

I then spent 15 minutes looking for insertions which ended up messing me up more than not. I'm happy with a 29 move skeleton first try, though!


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 17, 2011)

Kynit said:


> Tried FMC for the first time today. It's hard!
> 
> R L U' L' U2 R' L' D L' R U' R2 D L B' U2 D L F R D U' B R' D'
> 
> ...


 
DNF.


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## Kynit (Apr 17, 2011)

Kynit said:


> I'm happy with a 29 move *skeleton* first try, though!


I'm well aware it's a DNF. I ran out of time.


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 17, 2011)

Kynit said:


> Tried FMC for the first time today. It's hard!
> 
> R L U' L' U2 R' L' D L' R U' R2 D L B' U2 D L F R D U' B R' D'
> 
> ...


 


Kynit said:


> I'm well aware it's a DNF. I ran out of time.


 
Still, the last 3 lines of the "skeleton" don't seem to make too much sense.


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## Kynit (Apr 17, 2011)

Hey, I'm new to this; give me a bit of a break! I don't really know where the 'skeleton' stops and the remainder of the solve begins.


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 18, 2011)

Kynit said:


> Hey, I'm new to this; give me a bit of a break! I don't really know where the 'skeleton' stops and the remainder of the solve begins.


 
Well, I'm not intending to be mean, but I don't follow the last three lines of your partial solve. It's unclear what the 3rd line is supposed to be accomplishing, and the 4th line creates a 2x2x1 block, only to be broken up again by the last line. Perhaps there is supposed to be an R move after the 4th line, and then you would have only 4 corners left to solve after the 5th line.


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## Kynit (Apr 18, 2011)

Line 3 was EO because I'm too unfamiliar with much else from a 2x2x3.
Line 4 and 5 might as well be one, and I'm not sure why I kept them together. I think you're right about the 4 corners; that's what I had when I started looking for insertions. I'm not sure where my R went 

Forgive me if I mistake you as being hostile; the rest of the community seems a bit edgy towards newbies


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## aikikai_cuber (Apr 18, 2011)

is the Dw move allowed?


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## uberCuber (Apr 18, 2011)

So I have this scramble: D2 F2 B' R F' D' R F' R' B L' D B' F' D' L U' R2 D' F' R' F2 R2 D B' 

I got this 11-move 2x2x3+EO relatively quickly:
R B' D' L' R2 B L2 U F L F'

but I can't seem to find anything cool to do that leaves a good ending...any ideas?


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 18, 2011)

uberCuber said:


> So I have this scramble: D2 F2 B' R F' D' R F' R' B L' D B' F' D' L U' R2 D' F' R' F2 R2 D B'
> 
> I got this 11-move 2x2x3+EO relatively quickly:
> R B' D' L' R2 B L2 U F L F'
> ...


 
Well, there is an already made CE pair, so you could use that to create an F2L minus 1 slot pseudo block with any of:
D L2 D2 L
D L2 D2 L2
D2 L2 D L
D2 L2 D L2


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## uberCuber (Apr 18, 2011)

gah I am so terrible with pseudoness
guess I might as well start trying it out...tomorrow when I am more awake


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## Brest (Apr 18, 2011)

uberCuber said:


> So I have this scramble: D2 F2 B' R F' D' R F' R' B L' D B' F' D' L U' R2 D' F' R' F2 R2 D B'
> 
> I got this 11-move 2x2x3+EO relatively quickly:
> R B' D' L' R2 B L2 U F L F'
> ...


Rather than just fixing the edge orientation directly, have you tried to build blocks while fixing the EO? For example:

R B' D' L' R2 B L2 U : your 2x2x3
D2 L' D B D' B' D' L2 : EO and F2L -1 slot
D' L' D L : Leaves 4 corners

I'm sure there is something better than this sequence, but it's a reasonably good example of doing more than just directly fixing EO.

Other ideas:
* Step backwards move by move through your 2x2x3 block and look for a place where one layer doesn't have any of the pieces from your block. You can turn this layer without disturbing your block and have a different state at the end. Just finding one place to do this will give you 3 different options (eg. R or R2 or R') for the cost of a single move. You may even find that you can fix EO with this.

* After your 2x2x3 block you have a corner & edge paired. This pair doesn't extend either side of the block; however you could build it into a 1x2x2 and align it as a pseudo block, then use a pre-scramble move to have it appear aligned. There are two ways to build the CE into a 1x2x2 block, so more options again.

* Inverse the moves for your 2x2x3 block and apply them as pre-moves for the inverse scramble. You will still have a 2x2x3 made, however the rest will be different. You'll find that the CE pair is also still made, but it will likely be different colours/alignment. From here you can find a complete solution or a partial continuation. Do a forum search for NISS for a better explanation of this technique.

I hope this helps and was clear enough to understand.

Now, let's see how many times I was ninja'd...


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## uberCuber (Apr 18, 2011)

Thank you for the informative post Brest. I have put huge effort into getting good at the initial blockbuilding for Petrus, but I haven't actually practiced real FMC. I will start looking at those types of techniques, and hopefully soon start getting cool full FMCs


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## irontwig (Apr 18, 2011)

R B' D' L' R2 B L2 U
L2 D2 L2 D' L F L F'
F'  F2 D' F2 D L D' L' F'

Leaves three corners


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## Cubenovice (Apr 18, 2011)

Also: do not worry about the 1 hour time limit while practicing.
For now; try to explore all options and get familiar with as many FMC techniques as possible.

You can always do "competition" practice lateron or participate in the FMC in the weekly comp or on fmc.mustcube.net.
Lots of FMC can be learned in this very thread, the weekly comp thread and offcours AVG great write-up on FMC: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques

Also make sure to walk trhough other peoples solutions, to see what and how...
The weekly comp is great for this as you will find many solutions for the same scramble.


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## okayama (Apr 26, 2011)

A friend of mine got an easy scramble. His time was 3.47 (Cross on F).
I tried it for FMC.

Scramble: B2 D L2 U' B2 U F2 D' R2 D' R' D R' D F' L F' D' L' B2
Solution: B L' R2 B' U F' U' B U F R' B' R' D2 L' D' L D' B' U' (20 HTM/22 QTM)

Pre-scramble: B' U'

2x2x2 block: B L'
2x2x3 block: R2 * U
Tripod: R' B' R'
All but 3 corners: D2 L' D' L D'
Correction: B' U'

Insert at *: B' U F' U' B U F U'

Fridrich's method also gives 20 HTM solution though...


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## Rpotts (May 2, 2011)

Scramble: D' B F D B' U' B' F' D2 B' F2 D' R2 D2 U' F R B' D' U R B R2 B2 R

I found a good start but can't get far from here, any ideas?

2x2x2 : B R F2 U (4)
2x2x3 : L2 B L' B' F L' F' (7, 11)
F2L-1 : L2 B U' L2 U (5, 16)


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## okayama (May 3, 2011)

Rpotts said:


> Scramble: D' B F D B' U' B' F' D2 B' F2 D' R2 D2 U' F R B' D' U R B R2 B2 R
> 
> I found a good start but can't get far from here, any ideas?
> 
> ...



After the 2x2x3,

More c/e pairs: L' B2 L B'

seems good. One possible way to continue is:

Two squares: D F L' F' D' L2
All but 3 corners: F (U B' U' B) F', or, D' (U B' U' B) D

Then insert a corner 3-cycle somewhere.

Here are some of my tries:

[1]
Pre-scramble: R2 U2 D2

2x2x2 block: B R U'
2x2x3 block: L' F2 L D2
F2L minus 1 slot: F2 R' F' R2 F' R
Finish F2L: U' R U R'
All but 3 corners: D F D' L' U' F' U L
Correction: R2 U2 D2

[2]
Pre-scramble: R U2 D2

1st square: B R
2nd square: F D F
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: U' R2
Finish F2L: D' B' L' F L F B D2 F' R
All but 3 corners: F' R F2 R' F' R F' R'
Correction: R U2 D2

[3]
Pre-scramble: D2

2x2x1 block: B R
2x2x2 block: F D U' F' U F
2x2x3 block: U
Orient edges: U B2 U2 L2 U
All but 3 corners: L' B L B L' * B' L2 B' L'
Correction: D2

Insert at *: D B' U' B D' B' U B (results in 29 HTM)


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## irontwig (May 3, 2011)

My try:

D B R F2 U D2 L2 R' B R D B D R' B2 U2 F' L' F U2 B' R2 D' L' D R' D' L' (28)
D [Trial and error]
B R F2 U [2x2x2]
D2 L2 [2x2x3]
R' B R D B [Pseudo F2L]
D R' B2 U2 F' L' F U2 B' R B' [Leaving three corners]
B D' L2 [Undo Pseudoness]
L2 D R D' L' D R' D' L' [L3C]


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## Cubenovice (May 4, 2011)

Check out this scramble posted by irontwig in the example solve thread:

B2 F' R' B L B' U F' U' L2 B U' F L' R2 D' U2 L R2 D' F R2 L2 D U2

In a few minutes I came to 5 corners left in 15 HTM (2 cycles)
Haven't checked for insertions yet but direct solving of corners gave me 31 HTM
Will check for insertions when I have time, this should become my new PB (currently 28 HTM)

*EDIT final solution 25 HTM PB by 3 moves!!!*

LOL, for a minute I thought I had a 21 HTM solution with a 6 move cancel on the 2nd insertion but it proved to be a fail comm...



Spoiler



F L B2 U : D2 . L makes 2x2x2
B R B2 makes pseudo F2L-slot
R' F R2 F' R2 
U2 leaves 5 corners at 15 moves

At . insert F L B L’ F’ L B’ L’ to cancel 4 moves
At : insert U’ L’ U R’ U’ L U R to cancel 2 moves

F L B2 L’ U R’ U’ L U R D2 F L B L’ F’ L R B2 R' F R2 F' R2 U2 = 25 HTM


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## uberCuber (May 7, 2011)

WTFFFFFF
I just got a sub-30 FMC solve in weekly comp 18 by pure luck
In spoiler in case someone has not done that weekly comp yet for some reason



Spoiler



scramble: B U L U B' F R F' D2 R' B' U' F D' B' D' R2 F'

solution: F2 L R' B' U2 R2 D' F B U B U L2 U' L U' L2 U' L' U2 L' U L' U' L2 U L' (*27 MOVES HTM WTF!!!*)

2x2x3 + EO: F2 L R' B' U2 R2 D' F B U B wat
Finish F2L: U L2 U' L U' L2 U' L' U' wat
LL: U' L' U L' U' L2 U L'

My face was already like WTF when I got a 20 move F2L, and then I notice that LL was an antisune and I was like WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I will probably never get this lucky again by accident.


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## okayama (May 7, 2011)

uberCuber said:


> WTFFFFFF
> I just got a sub-30 FMC solve in weekly comp 18 by pure luck
> In spoiler in case someone has not done that weekly comp yet for some reason
> 
> ...


 
Congratulations. Nice to find a good 2x2x3.
After that, the cube can be solved by only <L, U>, as you solved.
This suggests me:


Spoiler



2x2x3 + EO: F2 L R' B' U2 R2 D' F B U B (your start)
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: U2 L U2 L U2
Solve all: L' U L2 U' L' U2


results in 22 HTM.


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## Cubenovice (May 7, 2011)

Belgian Open 2011:

NR: Ron van Bruchem in FMC: *25 HTM *

Would like to see the full solution, Ron mentioned it was 19 move F2L with 6 move LL

Scramble:
B2 F2 L' U2 R F2 R2 B L2 R2 U L' R2 D2 U F' D2 L2 B'

Cubenovice: DNF after fainling to find a good ending for:
premoves U2 F
B2 R D L F' D2 F2 D' makes X-Cross
F2 R F U F2 pseudo 2x2x3 (origin of premove F)
F' U F pseudo F2L-slot) (origin of premove U2)
competition nerves getting to me again...
couldn't find a decent ending and I refuse to write a 40+ solution.
- R' F R F' makes F2L with 2 EO
I really should learn full OLL some time


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## guusrs (May 7, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Belgian Open 2011:
> 
> NR: Ron van Bruchem in FMC: *25 HTM *
> 
> ...


 
woooooooow, congratz Ron!
It will be harder for me now te got the NR back!

Gus


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## y235 (May 8, 2011)

So in the Israelian Forum we opened a FMC Thread and there was this scramble: D F' L2 D' B' R' B2 L' D2 U' L2 B2 D R' U' F' R U B2 U2 F' L' D' L' F 
And someone found this start: 
2X2X2: F D2 B R'
2X2X3: L' B2 D' *B*
And he couldn't fing good ending so after some tries i was able to find this:
EO: *B* D2 B'
F2L: L D2 L D2 L' D2 L2 D2 L2 D' L2 D2 L D2 L' D' L
OLL: B' D' B D' B' D2 B
PLL: D2
It is 33 moves.


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## okayama (May 9, 2011)

Today is a memorial day on which I registered for this forum (just a year ago).
I'm not sure whether I have developed my skill, but sure I have enjoyed this thread.
Solutions, discussions, tips, whatever. Sometimes quite informative and impressive.
Big thanks to Guus for inviting me, and also to all the people in this thread.
I'm planning to go to World Champs, and looking forward to meeting you all. 

This thread started on 07-13-2009, and went to 24 pages by the time I registered.
From that day to today, it has grown up to 77 pages, at double the speed!
This shows FMC lovers and interested people have increased considerably for the past year.
It's a great news. I hope it also occurs in Japan, and more FMC events are held in Japan.


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## Ron (May 9, 2011)

For the record my solution for Belgian Open 2011:

Scramble: B2 F2 L' U2 R F2 R2 B L2 R2 U L' R2 D2 U F' D2 L2 B'
Solution:
U R' U' L2 R D2
L2 F2 L U2
F L' F' L F2
L U L2 U'
D L F L' F' D'
(25 moves)

I am happy that after so many competitions I finally found a nice solution.
Found it within 10 minutes, then checked it at least 25 times. ;-)
I know it is not a great solution with lots of FMC strategies. My normal strategy is to solve F2L-1 in few moves and then try several endings with last F2L pair. This one worked out very nicely.


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## Cubenovice (May 9, 2011)

THX for sharing!

I had actually hoped for a magic Z*B* LL algorithm ;-)


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## Attila (May 16, 2011)

@irontwig:
Continue here the discussion about short corner solution finding.
You’re right, it would be useful to know me the 3cycle algs, but i was too lazy to learn this.
I use another trick, for the few moves solve the corners, i write an example solve below:
Scramble: B U' R' B D B' L U R' B L2 B' L2 R2 U2 B2 R' U' weekly comp. 2011-16
First time i found a 10 moves solution for corners:
DF2DF2D’L’F2L’U’R.
Now looking for a 3-moves part, that meets the following conditions: the first and third move should be same or opposite letter, and the second move is double turn. The 6.-7.-8. moves (L’F2L’) just be good. Then i cut for 3 parts the 10 moves solutiion: 
DF2DF2D'
L’F2L’
U’R.
Then i swap the order of parts:
The third part (U’R) will the premove, then i solve the first part (DF2DF2D'), and the second part i leave it. The result: all corners -2moves (L’F2), but from this position it can proceed.
This scramble possible do the same for inverse scramble:
R’ULF2LDF2D’F2D’.
Cut for 3 parts:
R’ULF2L
DF2D’
F2D’.
Premoves: F2D’, solve R’ULF2L , leave DF2D’.


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## guusrs (May 16, 2011)

Ron said:


> For the record my solution for Belgian Open 2011:
> 
> Scramble: B2 F2 L' U2 R F2 R2 B L2 R2 U L' R2 D2 U F' D2 L2 B'
> Solution:
> ...


 
Well done Ron, 
I couldn't do better on this scramble
Gus


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## guusrs (May 16, 2011)

Attila said:


> @irontwig:
> Continue here the discussion about short corner solution finding.
> You’re right, it would be useful to know me the 3cycle algs, but i was too lazy to learn this.
> I use another trick, for the few moves solve the corners, i write an example solve below:
> ...


 
hmmm, nice. 
and very nissy!


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## Attila (May 17, 2011)

guusrs said:


> hmmm, nice.
> and very nissy!


 
What it means "nissy"?
I cannot translate, sorry


----------



## MaeLSTRoM (May 17, 2011)

Attila said:


> What it means "nissy"?
> I cannot translate, sorry


 
He is referencing the NISS method for FMC. its a made up word, so don't worry about it.


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## Attila (May 17, 2011)

MaeLSTRoM said:


> He is referencing the NISS method for FMC. its a made up word, so don't worry about it.


 
Thanks  I guessed, but I was not sure.


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## Cubenovice (May 23, 2011)

In this weeks comp I lost 30 minutes on a messed up inverse scramble.
Worked a little with this miss-scramble before realising I made a mistake.
But as it was not just a random miss-scramble I spend some time seeing if I could still use the moves I found.
Unfortunately I could not relate the moves to the actual scramble so I had to start all over again with a mediocre 36 HTM as a result.

What did I do?
NOTE: This is a made up example as I do not want to compromise the running weekly scramble.
You may recognize some weekly 20 in this ;-)

Scramble: U’ R L F L’ F2 R2 U R’ L’ D’ L F’ U’ L D L2
Checking the inverse for a nice start.
But instead of:
Inverse: L2 D’ L’ U F L’ D L R U’ R2 F2 L F’ L’ R’ U
I did something like this (I must have had a serious brainfart...)
Whatever-verse: U R' L' F' L F2 R2 U' R L D L' F U L' D' L2 
Oops, forgot to work backwards, I just inverted every single move starting from the front.

On this whatever-verse we have a nice 2x2x3: F2 R2 U D B' F' L' U L2

Now the big question is: can these moves be used in one way or another to help solve the original scramble?

What I tried during the weekly comp:
Applied the moves to both the normal and inverse scramble
Applied the moves (but wrongly inversed) to both the normal and inverse scramble 
Use the moves as premoves for both the normal and inverse scramble
Use the moves (but wrongly inversed) as premoves for both the normal and inverse scramble
But nothing usefull came out of it, so I had to start all over a again...

After the comp I checked in cube explorer if this kind of conversion creates an isomorphic pattern: NO
BUT: a regular inversed scramble also does NOT create an isomorphic pattern (according to CE).
So it seems scramble conversions do not have to result in isomorphic patterns to be usefull.

I want to believe that this kind of scramble conversion could be usefull but I just don’t see it.

When comparing inversing a scramble vs whatever-versing you see that the inverse scramble is closely related to the original scramble and the whatever-verse gives a completely different pattern.

This means that if a useful relation can be found we now have extra, all new, scramble to explore.

Looking back into this typed out example I see: my whatever-verse is actually just a reverse notation of the inverse scramble.

So the new (simpler) question: can a reversal of a scramble be used to generate usefull moves for the normal scramble?
A quick check in alg garron seems to dismiss this idea too…

Test scramble weekly 20
L2 D L U' F' L D' L' R' U R2 F2 L' F L R U'
Solution (irontwig)
F2 U2 B U L B U2 R' D B' D' F D B R2 D R2 D' R D2 R' D F2 = OK

Test scramble reversed:
U' R L F L' F2 R2 U R' L' D' L F' U' L D L2
Solution (irontwig) reversed
F2 D R' D2 R D' R2 D R2 B D F D' B' D R' U2 B L U B U2 F2 = NOK

Oh well... I guess this highlights the beauty of the original NISS method.

Apart from using the inverse scramble, could there be any other usefull conversions?
Some not so usefull things that come to mind:
- some random premoves: gets you a "new" scramble but will cost you some moves
- mirrored scrambles (choose your axis): isomorphic pattern but perhaps different recognition


Mirror example:
normal
U R' L' F' L F2 R2 U' R L D L' F U L' D' L2
3x3x3


L/R mirror
U' L R F R' F2 L2 U L' R' D' R F' U' R D R2
3x3x3


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## irontwig (May 23, 2011)

Not "new scramble" trick, but something to do with pre-moves.

Example: a b c.x y z [Leaves a few pieces]
At the dot all unsolved pieces appear on a single layer, then when we can use pre-moves x y z, scramble and then a b c to get a complete F2L.


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## kinch2002 (May 23, 2011)

Here's some L4C practice if you want 
Weekly Comp 21 (current one)
Scramble: B' F' U' L' R2 B' R D2 R D2 B R F' L U F U2 F'
2x2x3: U R F U2 L B2 R B' (8)
EO and F2L leaving 4 corners (one twisted): F' U2 F R' U' B U2 B' R2 U R (19)
Anyone want to try and find a good double insertion?
Btw, I used an alternative solution, so you won't be giving me my solution here!

Also, I have a question. Anyone got ideas for what to do with 3-edge insertions? Or 2C2E left?
With 3 edges, it's usually difficult to find a place where you can do M U2 M' U2 so it results in >8 moves if you try to setup to that sort of thing.


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## irontwig (May 23, 2011)

2C2E inserts can be done with short LL algs. Sometimes doing inserts with 10f/8s comms will cancel more moves and result in a shorter solution than inserting 6-8 movers. But yeah most of the times edge insertions are inferior to corner insertions. If you also have both corners and three edges left then you can try do insert sexy move or sledge hammer to solve the edges and leave three corners.


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## kinch2002 (May 23, 2011)

irontwig said:


> 2C2E inserts can be done with short LL algs. Sometimes doing inserts with 10f/8s comms will cancel more moves and result in a shorter solution than inserting 6-8 movers. But yeah most of the times edge insertions are inferior to corner insertions. If you also have both corners and three edges left then you can try do insert sexy move or sledge hammer to solve the edges and leave three corners.


Thanks  I don't get what you mean about inserting sexy move - R U R' U' could solve 3 edges, but will also move 4 corners...do you mean that you have try to make them the right corners that you move around too, so that you still only have 3 corners left, but different ones? That sounds difficult if that is the case


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## irontwig (May 23, 2011)

You could always just apply the four moves and see if you leave three corners in the end; trial and error is your friend.


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## guusrs (May 23, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> With 3 edges, it's usually difficult to find a place where you can do M U2 M' U2 so it
> results in >8 moves if you try to setup to that sort of thing.


Edge insertion can also be done with
- U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 B R2 
- B' R B' M B' R' B' M' 
- B' R B' M2 B' R' B M2 
- B2 R B2 M B2 R' B2 M' 
- B2 R B2 M2 B2 R' B2 M' 
(or start with any move in the middel and rollover the alg)

The first one is my favorite: the first 2 moves do not affect the 3 edges involved
Because of so many possibilties and all those slices there's a big chance of cancelling 2 or more moves.

You can practice with this scramble:
2008-44: F R2 B' L2 D2 L2 B2 F' L2 D F' D2 L F D R' F' D' U B F
all but 3 edges: L2 F D R' B2 D2 R B F U' R2 U R' U F' U' (16)

solution: 


Spoiler



after the 10th move insert: L2 D B' D' R2 L2 U F U' R2, 4 moves cancel



Gus


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## guusrs (May 23, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> In this weeks comp I lost 30 minutes on a messed up inverse scramble.
> Worked a little with this miss-scramble before realising I made a mistake.
> But as it was not just a random miss-scramble I spend some time seeing if I could still use the moves I found.
> Unfortunately I could not relate the moves to the actual scramble so I had to start all over again with a mediocre 36 HTM as a result.
> ...



I can not see why this would give any advantage more than starting your solve with random moves, which also helps sometime, eg to unlock mismatched pairs.
Gus


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## cuBerBruce (May 25, 2011)

One thing to remember is that the 6-move edge 3-cycle, if you are fortunate enough to find an insertion point for it, has 4 variations which can be thought of as cyclic shift variations (allowing for switching the order of commuting moves) of the alg in face-turn notation.

For example, M U2 M' U2 translated into face turns is L' R B2 L R' U2. But this can be replaced by any of these other 3 algs:

R B2 L R' U2 L'
L' B2 L R' U2 R
B2 L R' U2 L' R

Considering all four algs doubles your opportunity of getting some cancellation, and also increases your chances of multiple cancellations. If you have to do a setup move in order to use a form of the 6-move alg, the opportunities for cancellations are much reduced, of course.

I also decided to determine all the cube positions having unsolved edges, but all corners solved, up to a distance of 7f*. I provide one maneuver for one element of each symmetry class in the spoiler below. Of course, as the number of unsolved edges goes up, the probability of finding an insertion point matching the configuration goes down, so many of these cases are probably not worth learning.



Spoiler





```
positions requiring 6 moves
---------------------------
3-cycle
B R2 B' F D2 F'  (6f*)

5-cycle
B F' R' B' F D  (6f*)
U' B D' U R' D  (6f*)
B' D' U R D U'  (6f*)
U' B' D' U R D  (6f*)

pair of 2-cycles
B2 F2 D2 B2 F2 U2  (6f*)
F2 D2 B2 D2 F2 U2  (6f*)

pair of 3-cycles
R D2 U2 L' D2 U2  (6f*)
B2 F2 U' B2 F2 D  (6f*)
U2 L' D2 U2 R D2  (6f*)

six 2-cycles
B2 F2 L2 R2 D2 U2  (6f*)
B2 F2 U2 L2 R2 U2  (6f*)
D2 B2 F2 L2 R2 U2  (6f*)
D2 F2 L2 R2 F2 U2  (6f*)

positions requiring 7 moves
---------------------------
3-cycle
D B' F L2 B F' D  (7f*)

5-cycle
D' U' B' D' U R D2  (7f*)
D' U' B D' U R' D2  (7f*)
D2 U F D U' R' D  (7f*)
D2 U F' D U' R D  (7f*)
D R' D U' B D2 U  (7f*)
D B F' R B' F D2  (7f*)
D' B' D' U R D2 U'  (7f*)
D2 F D U' R' D U  (7f*)
U2 B' D' U R D U  (7f*)
D2 B F' R B' F D  (7f*)

pair of 2-cycles
U' L2 R2 D2 L2 R2 U'  (7f*)
D' R2 D2 R2 D2 R2 D'  (7f*)

pair of 3-cycles
D U2 L D2 U2 R' D  (7f*)
D U2 L' D2 U2 R D  (7f*)
U R' D2 U2 L D2 U  (7f*)
U R D2 U2 L' D2 U  (7f*)
D' B2 F2 U' B2 F2 D2  (7f*)
D2 B2 F2 U B2 F2 D  (7f*)

pair of 3-cycles and pair of 2-cycles
L' R2 B2 F2 R' D2 U2  (7f*)
U' L2 R2 D' B2 F2 D2  (7f*)
B2 F2 D' U2 L2 R2 U'  (7f*)
U2 R' B2 F2 L' R2 D2  (7f*)
U2 L2 R2 U B2 F2 D  (7f*)

six 2-cycles
U' B2 F2 L2 R2 D2 U'  (7f*)
U' R2 B2 F2 R2 D2 U'  (7f*)
U' B2 F2 U2 L2 R2 U'  (7f*)
```




For 2C,2E positions, I get 10 moves for the minimal alg. The 10f* cases (distinct w.r.t. symmetries of the cube) are:


```
F R2 D2 L B L' D2 R F' R  (10f*) 
L' F' L2 D2 R' B' R D2 L' F  (10f*) 
F2 D' F' D F' R2 B U' B' R2  (10f*) 
F2 R2 B' D' B R2 F' U F' U'  (10f*) 
F R' F R F2 U2 B L B' U2  (10f*) 
R B2 L' D L' D' L2 B2 R' U'  (10f*) 
B2 R2 D' R' D R' B2 L U' L'  (10f*) 
F' L2 B D' B' L2 F2 U' F' U  (10f*) 
F R' F' U2 B2 L' B' L B' U2  (10f*)
```

For pure 2-twist plus pure 2-flip, the minimal alg is 14 moves.


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## Rpotts (May 26, 2011)

This weeks FMC at mustcube.net was my first "official" FMC attempt, I got a 35 which is great for me, but as with most of my good FMC solutions it feels like a bad skeleton with a lucky finish. 
Scramble : F2 D' L2 B D2 F' B2 D2 L F2 D2 F' R' F2 D' R2 U F2 D' R' L' F' D' B' U2 D L' B R2 L'



Spoiler



U R' B U' D' F L' D' L2 R' D R L D' L' F D' F' D F D2 F D F' D' F D2 F' R D' L' D R' D' L' (35)

Premove : L2 

2x2x2 : U R' B U' (4)
2x2x3 : D' F L' D' L2 (5, 9)
EO : R' D R L D' L' (6, 15)
F2L-1 : F D' F' D F (5, 20)
Leave 3 Corners : D2 F D F' D' F D2 F' (8, 28)
L3C : R D' L' D R' D' L (7, 35)
Undo Premove : L2 (Cancels)

I looked everywhere for an insertion for the niklas, but I couldn't find anything that cancelled more moves than the 2 that cancelled at the end (AUF + Premove)


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## irontwig (May 26, 2011)

You didn't miss anything, that Niklas at the end was the optimal insertion, also you cancelled 3 moves, not 2 (as you left three corners in 30 moves).


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## Rpotts (May 26, 2011)

irontwig - I'm relatively new to fmc, could you explain the third move that cancelled in the niklas? Also, I count 28 moves + 1 premove = 29 with 3 corners left, I don't know how to correctly count premoves so could you give me some insight to how you got 30?


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## DavidWoner (May 26, 2011)

The AUF before the niklas cancels two moves. 



Spoiler



Leave 3 Corners : D2 F D F' D' F D2 F' (8, 28)

should REALLY be Leave 3 Corners : D2 F D F' D' F D2 F' D' (9, 29) in order to truly leave 3 corners, ignoring premoves. And niklas is an 8 move alg, not a 7 move alg, so the 3cycle you used was really D R D' L' D R' D' L.

So D2 F D F' D' F D2 F' D' D R D' L' D R' D' L L2 (18) cancels into D2 F D F' D' F D2 F' R D' L' D R' D' L' (15)


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## Tentacius (Jun 2, 2011)

Scramble from CCT: F' U2 B2 U F' D2 U2 L' R D L2 R2 U' F' R' B F' L2 R2 B L' R D2 L2 R'

z2 F R' D L F2 U2 Rw U2 Rw' - 9/9 - X-Cross
U' R U' R' U' y R' U' R - 8/17 - F2L2
y' R' U R - 3/20 - F2L3
U2 R U' R' U R U2 R' - 8/28 - F2L4+OLL (cancelltaion into sune)
y' F2 U R' L F2 R L' U F2 - 9/37 - PLL

Quite lucky, but yeah. PB


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## Rpotts (Jun 3, 2011)

if your FMC PB is with cfop you should practice blockbuilding and comm insertions lol. Surely you could've solved that 3 cycle with an insertion, cancelling some moves.


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## nlCuber22 (Jun 3, 2011)

B2 D U B R' D2 B L2 D B2 U2 R F U2 D' F U2 B2 L' D' F' U2 L2 R2 F 

Would some of the more experienced FMCers care to show me what they would do with this? It has an extremely lucky 2x2 start.


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## Brest (Jun 3, 2011)

nlCuber22 said:


> B2 D U B R' D2 B L2 D B2 U2 R F U2 D' F U2 B2 L' D' F' U2 L2 R2 F
> 
> Would some of the more experienced FMCers care to show me what they would do with this? It has an extremely lucky 2x2 start.


 
Premove (R2)

R @ U R' D' : 2x2x2 & 1x2x2 (find premove)
U2 R' U F2 : F2L-1
L' U2 L U' F U' F' U2 : Leave 4 corners

Cool thing, adding an R to the L4C:
L' U2 R L U' F U' F' U2 R' : L3C
R2 : Premove, cancels too!
Insert @ [L2,U'R2U] to cancel 1 move, couldn't find better.

Combine:
R L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 (U U) R' D'
U2 R' U F2
L' U2 R L U' F U' F' U2 (R' R2)

R L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U2 R' D' U2 R' U F2 L' U2 R L U' F U' F' U2 R (25)


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## Cubenovice (Jun 3, 2011)

Tentacius said:


> Quite lucky, but yeah. PB



Congratiulations on your PB!
One question though: Was this an actual FMC attempt or just a nice CFOP solve where you realised the low move-count and reconstructed?

Anyway, welcome to the world of FMC, stick around!


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## Cubenovice (Jun 3, 2011)

nlCuber22 said:


> B2 D U B R' D2 B L2 D B2 U2 R F U2 D' F U2 B2 L' D' F' U2 L2 R2 F
> 
> Would some of the more experienced FMCers care to show me what they would do with this? It has an extremely lucky 2x2 start.



premove R2
U R' F' R ( find premove R2)
U2 F' U F ( find an additional premove F')

start again with premoves F' R2
Hey this looks nice, screw the previous moves!!!

premoves F' R2
R D' . *R *2x2x2 block + 1x2x3 with swapped edges
U R2 place red-blue edge
U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' U swapping edges leaves 5 corners
F' R2 undo premoves

5 corners left after 14 moves 

At . insert B' L B R : *B'* L' B *R' * to cancel 2 moves
At : insert U F' U' B' U F U' *B* to cancel 2 moves

Final solution:
R D' B' L B R U F' U' B' U F U' L' B U R2 U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' U F' R2 = 26 HTM
Insertions did not really cooperate...


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## nlCuber22 (Jun 4, 2011)

Interesting. This amazes me, but I have no idea where to start.


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## kinch2002 (Jun 4, 2011)

nlCuber22 said:


> Interesting. This amazes me, but I have no idea where to start.


Just have a look to see if there are other easy blocks to make after the initial one. A pretty common FMC strategy is 2x2x2, extend to 2x2x3, then EO and F2L and then try to force 3 corners left for an insertion. It's basically petrus F2L. You can use the inverse scramble (often known as NISS method) to try and help if you get stuck, and premoves are great too. You'll find loads of info in this thread on that sort of thing. And probably the wiki too


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## cuBerBruce (Jun 4, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> You can use the inverse scramble (often known as NISS method) ...


 
Using the inverse scramble is a common FMC technique, but using the inverse scramble is not (by itself) what NISS is.


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## DavidWoner (Jun 4, 2011)

Yeah if you looks at what NISS stands for (Normal/Inverse Scramble Switch or something close) then it's obvious you have to use both.


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## Cubenovice (Jun 4, 2011)

Aaaarrgggghhhh....
Just learned something the hard way

When using premoves and ending with X corners left: "solve" the cube without premoves *before *applying your stickers to go insertion hunting.

I was checking for insertions on nlcuber's scramble, on the 1st cycle I found one with 4 moves cancel, leaving 3 corners at 18 moves.
Then when checking without the premoves I suddenly had some unsolved corners without stickers???

DOH!


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## guusrs (Jun 4, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Aaaarrgggghhhh....
> Just learned something the hard way
> 
> When using premoves and ending with X corners left: "solve" the cube without premoves *before *applying your stickers to go insertion hunting.
> ...


Well done


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## Cubenovice (Jun 4, 2011)

guusrs said:


> Well done



A good lesson for sure!
And to make matters worse: after the correction only 4 cancelled moves in total...


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## kinch2002 (Jun 4, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> You can use the inverse scramble (often known as NISS method) to try and help if you get stuck





cuBerBruce said:


> Using the inverse scramble is a common FMC technique, but using the inverse scramble is not (by itself) what NISS is.


If you carried on the sentence a bit further you'd see that I did mean that switching from normal to inverse in the middle would be NISS. Perhaps I should have put the brackets at the end of the phrase. Sorry for the confusion!


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## Brest (Jun 4, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Aaaarrgggghhhh....
> Just learned something the hard way
> 
> When using premoves and ending with X corners left: "solve" the cube without premoves *before *applying your stickers to go insertion hunting.
> ...



You should find that any insertion made within the part of the solution that you have already checked will still work. It will not matter if the premoves are before the scramble, or at the end of your solution, just as long as those moves are still within the sequence. Some (or all) of the unsolved cubies will likely be different colours, however their position within that part of the solution will be the same.

Using your solution for nlcuber's scramble:


Spoiler



Premoves: (F' R2)
Scramble: B2 D U B R' D2 B L2 D B2 U2 R F U2 D' F U2 B2 L' D' F' U2 L2 R2 F
Solution:
R D' . R : 2x2x2 block + 1x2x3 with swapped edges
U R2 : place red-blue edge
U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' U : swapping edges leaves 5 corners
F' R2 : undo premoves
At . insert B' L B R : B' L' B R' to cancel 2 moves
At : insert U F' U' B' U F U' B to cancel 2 moves

-*-
Premoves before the scramble:
(F' R2)
{Scramble}
R D' (B' L B R (U F' U' B' U F U' B) B' L' B R') R
U R2
U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' U
alg.garron.us

-*-
Premoves at end of solution
{Scramble}
R D' (B' L B R (U F' U' B' U F U' B) B' L' B R') R
U R2
U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' U
(F' R2)
alg.garron.us

As you can see, both sequences produce solved cubes.


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## cuBerBruce (Jun 4, 2011)

Brest said:


> You should find that any insertion made within the part of the solution that you have already checked will still work. It will not matter if the premoves are before the scramble, or at the end of your solution, just as long as those moves are still within the sequence. Some (or all) of the unsolved cubies will likely be different colours, however their position within that part of the solution will be the same.



I think you missed Cubenovice's point.

In the example, if you use the scramble with premoves, you will find you need to cycle (ULF,BLU,RDB,DFL,RFD) at the end of the skeleton. If instead, you don't apply the premoves before the scramble, but apply them after the skeleton moves, you find you need to cycle (UFR,BUR,BRD,DFL,LUB).

If you were to put stickies on the cube to look for insertions to solve (ULF,BLU,RDB,DFL,RFD), but then apply the scramble without premoves, the insertions you find will be for cycling the wrong pieces. You will be cycling(ULF,BLU,RDB,DFL,RFD) when you need to be cycling (UFR,BUR,BRD,DFL,LUB).


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## Brest (Jun 4, 2011)

cuBerBruce said:


> I think you missed Cubenovice's point.
> 
> In the example, if you use the scramble with premoves, you will find you need to cycle (ULF,BLU,RDB,DFL,RFD) at the end of the skeleton. If instead, you don't apply the premoves before the scramble, but apply them after the skeleton moves, you find you need to cycle (UFR,BUR,BRD,DFL,LUB).
> 
> If you were to put stickies on the cube to look for insertions to solve (ULF,BLU,RDB,DFL,RFD), but then apply the scramble without premoves, the insertions you find will be for cycling the wrong pieces. You will be cycling(ULF,BLU,RDB,DFL,RFD) when you need to be cycling (UFR,BUR,BRD,DFL,LUB).


 
I've read many of your posts so I know that you have more experience and knowledge about the cube than I do. So, hopefully, I'm not making a fool of myself, but if so then I'll learn something. =)

I believe I understand what Cubenovice was expressing, and also what you have posted. However, while learning these techniques, I did this on purpose in the hopes to have two different solutions to find insertions within. It didn't work how I wanted it to, as each insertion I found with premoves before the scramble were the same as those found with premoves after the skeleton's solution.

For example, the same solution Cubenovice posted:

1st insertion:


Spoiler



Premoves before scramble
(F' R2)
B2 D U B R' D2 B L2 D B2 U2 R F U2 D' F U2 B2 L' D' F' U2 L2 R2 F
R D' R
U R2
U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' U @
Insert at the end: [F',DBD']
alg.garron.us
Which leaves 3 corners

Premoves after skeleton
B2 D U B R' D2 B L2 D B2 U2 R F U2 D' F U2 B2 L' D' F' U2 L2 R2 F
R D' R
U R2
U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' U @
(F' R2)
Insert [F',DBD'] at the same spot, which is after undoing the premoves.
alg.garron.us
Also leaves 3 corners


Each time the same insertion works at the same place within the solution.

2nd insertion:


Spoiler



Premoves before scramble
(F' R2)
B2 D U B R' D2 B L2 D B2 U2 R F U2 D' F U2 B2 L' D' F' U2 L2 R2 F
R D' R
U R2
U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' U
F' D B D' F D B' D' #
Insert at the end: [L',UR'U']
alg.garron.us
Solved cube

Premoves after skeleton
B2 D U B R' D2 B L2 D B2 U2 R F U2 D' F U2 B2 L' D' F' U2 L2 R2 F
R D' R
U R2
U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F' U
F' D B D' F D B' D' #
(F' R2)
Insert [L',UR'U'] at the same spot.
alg.garron.us
Also solved


As long as the premoves are used, either before the scramble or after the skeleton, then each insertion found with one sequence will work at the same spot within the other sequence. The only place a 'new' insertion could be found is within the actual premoves themselves.

The solution is different, so therefore the unsolved corners will be different at the end. I have been presuming that this is 'undone' or 'fixed' after the premoves are inversed, as you step back through the sequence looking for an insertion. Maybe that presumption is incorrect?

If what I'm posting here is wrong, then I don't understand what is being expressed, which is fine by me. I still have much to learn and this can be the next thing I learn. Can you explain why the insertions I've used in these examples work within each solution the way they do? And if this is different to the one Cubenovice found, could you also explain why it is different?


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## cuBerBruce (Jun 5, 2011)

Brest said:


> As long as the premoves are used, either before the scramble or after the skeleton, then each insertion found with one sequence will work at the same spot within the other sequence. The only place a 'new' insertion could be found is within the actual premoves themselves.
> 
> The solution is different, so therefore the unsolved corners will be different at the end. I have been presuming that this is 'undone' or 'fixed' after the premoves are inversed, as you step back through the sequence looking for an insertion. Maybe that presumption is incorrect?
> 
> If what I'm posting here is wrong, then I don't understand what is being expressed, which is fine by me. I still have much to learn and this can be the next thing I learn. Can you explain why the insertions I've used in these examples work within each solution the way they do? And if this is different to the one Cubenovice found, could you also explain why it is different?



What you're saying is basically correct. I wasn't claiming what you were saying was wrong.

As you noted, if (starting with a solved cube) you apply:
premoves, scramble, skeleton
you will end up with different unsolved corners (typically) than if you apply:
scramble, skeleton, premoves

Therefore when applying stickies to your cube to label which pieces must be cycled, you must be aware of which case of the above two cases you use. When going through the skeleton moves to find insertions, you must use the same case for which you applied the labels. If you don't, you cycle the wrong pieces, and that is what I understand is the error Cubenovice made. It's an easy mistake to make, and I know I've made that mistake myself more than once. Some people just walk through the skeleton backwards (as perhaps you do, it sounds like) rather than solve, scramble, and walk through the skeleton forward.


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## Brest (Jun 5, 2011)

cuBerBruce said:


> What you're saying is basically correct. I wasn't claiming what you were saying was wrong.
> 
> As you noted, if (starting with a solved cube) you apply:
> premoves, scramble, skeleton
> ...


Ah, of course that makes sense. I didn't look at it in that way.


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## Cubenovice (Jun 5, 2011)

Nice discussion!

Looking back at it I should not have made this mistake!!!
I had already found out that the remaining corners change in a NISS solve.
So whenever I have a NISS solve leaving some corners I first "correct" my solution and only then sticker the pieces.

Offcourse this is no different for a regular solve with premoves...

BTW: 
With the 1 move 2x2x2 on nlcuber's scramble; should we consider this a lucky scramble?
I ran it through CE to check if there was an abnormal short solution and guess what? Optimal is still *18* HTM


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## irontwig (Jun 5, 2011)

Three unique 22s (although using the same F2L-1):

http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=348&format=official&metric=htm


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## Attila (Jun 5, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Three unique 22s (although using the same F2L-1):
> 
> http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=348&format=official&metric=htm


You are doing PB every week 
Congratz for all three solution, and Okayama’s classic 20 moves solution!
My belated solution below:
Scramble: B2 L' F2 D F' B R D U' B R' D2 R' F' R' F' L2 F D L' R2 F B' R U2 D R2 B2 U' F2
Solution: B’RL’U2R’L’DF’L2R2UR2B2D’U’L’D’BF’RDLU2D2L2UD’ (27 moves)
B’F2 .L2DF’ Guimond 1. step,
L2R2 more 2 edges,
UR2B2D all corners and 6 edges,
edges insertion: .F2MF2M’ 3 moves cancel,
D2U’L’D’BF’RDLU2D2L2UD’ L5E.


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## irontwig (Jun 5, 2011)

Yeah, I don't know if I'm getting better or just luckier xD.


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## Cubenovice (Jun 5, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Three unique 22s (although using the same F2L-1):
> 
> http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=348&format=official&metric=htm



I really, REALLY, need to work on my LL skill set, I found the same 8 move F2l-1 but from there I'm lost.
It feels like these three pairs are just there to confuse me...


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## irontwig (Jun 5, 2011)

None of us had a LL though . But yeah LL knowledge can be quite useful.


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## Cubenovice (Jun 5, 2011)

irontwig said:


> None of us had a LL though . But yeah LL knowledge can be quite useful.



I wrote LL because I could find a good way to describe going from F2L-slot to "whatever" cycle that enables an insertion.

Does this step even have a name or is this just "finishing the skeleton"?


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## DavidWoner (Jun 5, 2011)

My first solution with that start matched Irontwig's. I tried inserting the pair cycle but nothing cancelled (if only the cycle when the other direction!)

Then I found:

F2L-1: L R2 B2 R' D R U' R2 (8/8)
Connect some stuff: L' B2 R B R' (5/13)
Restore: U2 B L (3/16)
3-cycle: L' B' L F L' B L F' (8/24-4)

Cancels 4 moves resulting in 20. Guus your solution seemed to finish so similar to this one. Perhaps if you had found the 8-move start sooner you might have found this as well!


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## cuBerBruce (Jun 6, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> Then I found:
> 
> F2L-1: L R2 B2 R' D R U' R2 (8/8)
> Connect some stuff: L' B2 R B R' (5/13)
> ...



Same 20-move solution that Tomoaki found.


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## JonnyWhoopes (Jun 7, 2011)

What would be a good solution for this scramble? 
D U2 L2 B L' U R U2 B' R2 B2 F2 D' L B2 U2 D F2 B L B2 D' B U' R'

I was speedsolving it, and found what I consider a low movecount, so I'm curious what some FMCers could get with it.

Here is my solution, written as I solved it.
y' z 
L2 U' R D y R U' 
x' y2 R U R' r U r' 
x U R' U2 
x' y U2 R U R' 
U2 F U R U' R' F' 
U R U2 R' U' R U' R'


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## caseyd (Jun 7, 2011)

i know ill sound like a noob, but what are cancellations?


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## CubicNL (Jun 7, 2011)

Is there a website where I can find an explanation for the rules of FMC and how it works?
Because I see all these things like premoves and insertions and other things I've never heard about, and I'd really like to know what it all means


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## guusrs (Jun 7, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Does this step even have a name or is this just "finishing the skeleton"?



Yep, build another 2x2x2 block and finish the skeleton. No algs needed for this scramble.

Btw. congratz Tomoaki for finding a 20-move solution!


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## Rpotts (Jun 7, 2011)

CubicNL said:


> Is there a website where I can find an explanation for the rules of FMC and how it works?
> Because I see all these things like premoves and insertions and other things I've never heard about, and I'd really like to know what it all means


 
this site is pro for fmc


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## irontwig (Jun 8, 2011)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> What would be a good solution for this scramble?
> D U2 L2 B L' U R U2 B' R2 B2 F2 D' L B2 U2 D F2 B L B2 D' B U' R'


 
R2 D2 B' U F' B' L' B D' B2 F U' F2 R2 D R' U' R D' R' U2 R' U' F' U B D' L D' (29)


R2 D2 B' U [Square+2 pairs]

Switch to inverse:
D L' D [Roux block+Square]

Switch back to normal:
F' B' L' B D' B2 F2 [Pseudo F2L-1]
F' U' F [Pseudo F2L]
F R.U R' U' F' U [LLEF+1]
B [Undo pseudoness]
D' L D' [Undo premoves]

Insert at dot: R D R' U' R D' R' U (Two moves cancel)


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## Lucas Garron (Jun 8, 2011)

JonnyWhoopes said:


> y' z
> L2 U' R D y R U'
> x' y2 R U R' r U r'
> x U R' U2
> ...


Some of the parts seem a little manual, but the cube comes together well in the middle. More importantly: Why in the world would you AUF twice during the LL?


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## Cubenovice (Jun 8, 2011)

CubicNL said:


> Is there a website where I can find an explanation for the rules of FMC and how it works?
> Because I see all these things like premoves and insertions and other things I've never heard about, and I'd really like to know what it all means



Cut n past from one of my previous posts ;-)

For more info on FMC read this:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques
this
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread
and check the solutions of other people in the weekly comps to see all these techniques in action.

*Caseyd*: a cancellation is when moves of parts of your solution cancel out.

example OLL - PLL:
OLL Sune: R U R' U R U2 R'
PLL (any): anything that starts with an R, R' or R2 will cancel one or more moves with the last move of the Sune
Examples:
CClockwise U perm: R2 U R U R’ U’ etc. cancels 1 move: R’ followed by R2 = R
Clockwise U-perm: R U' R U R U etc. cancels no less than three moves!
R U R' U R U2 R' R U' R U R U = R U R' U R U R U R U
R' and R cancel out and then U2 and U' is the same as U
= 3 cancelled moves

Spotting cancellations is one of the reasons for writing your FMC solutions without cube rotations.

Suppose you finish the 3rd pair with R’ U2 R and do the 4th with y’ F’ R U R’ U’ R’ F R to keep EO:
y’ F’ = R’ so you are actually cancelling two moves.
However if you write your results as R’ U2 R y’ F’ R U R’ U’ R’ F R you’ll score 11 HTM for this part
Still 11 HTM if you would write R’ U2 R R’ B U B’ U’ B’ R B in your final FMC solution ;-)
But only 9 HTM if you cancel out the R R’ and write R’ U2 B U B’ U’ B’ R B

Other cancellation tricks:
Watch out when you consecutive moves of opposite faces:
… R U R’ followed by L R UR… = … R U R’ L R UR… = … R U R’ R L UR… = ... R U L UR…
And pay attention to AUF’s too
AUF before a PLL could cost you a cancellation with the end of OLL
AUF before a PLL that ends with U is just a silly way of increasing movecount

I used OLL and PLL as examples (even though you typically would avoid ending with PLL in FMC) but offcourse they can be replaced by any moves in any part of the solution


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## CubicNL (Jun 8, 2011)

Thanks rpotts and cubenovice, that's exactly what I needed


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## JonnyWhoopes (Jun 8, 2011)

Lucas Garron said:


> Some of the parts seem a little manual, but the cube comes together well in the middle. More importantly: Why in the world would you AUF twice during the LL?


 
Because it was a speedsolve. =)


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## JackJ (Jun 15, 2011)

Trying FMC again after a 6 month break. 

R2 D' L' U2 B2 D2 B' U L2 D' U F' R' B2 U2 F U D' L2 R U' F2 L' B' F' 

Solution: 48 moves


Spoiler



D' R2 D2 R' D2 R2
U2 L U B2 U L2 U' L2 
R' U' R U2 R B R' B U B' U' B 
L2 D L' U2 L D' L' U2 L' 
B U B' R2 Uw' R U' R' U R' Uw R2 U'



Pretty promising start for me, LL really killed it though with no move cancellations. Feel free to point out any typos or places to work on.


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## cuBerBruce (Jun 15, 2011)

JackJ said:


> Trying FMC again after a 6 month break.
> 
> R2 D' L' U2 B2 D2 B' U L2 D' U F' R' B2 U2 F U D' L2 R U' F2 L' B' F'
> 
> ...


 
For starters, learn to take advantage of symmetry. Why did you use that OLL when its mirror leaves a J-Perm instead of a G-Perm? That'll save 2 moves anyway, assuming you know the optimal J-Perm.

EDIT:
Incidently, I note that the first G-Perm I learned actually gets 3 moves to cancel on that solve. Knowing extra algs for the same case can be beneficial. But generally OLL/PLL is not the most efficient way to finish solves for FMC.



Spoiler



Scramble: R2 D' L' U2 B2 D2 B' U L2 D' U F' R' B2 U2 F U D' L2 R U' F2 L' B' F'
JackJ's start:
D' R2 D2 R' D2 R2
U2 L U B2 U L2 U' L2
R' U' R U2 R B R' B U B' U' B
L2 D L' U2 L D' L' U2 L'
Alternate G-Perm finish (3 moves cancel):
L U' R U2 L' U R' B' F' U2 B F U (48-3 = 45)


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## irontwig (Jun 16, 2011)

JackJ said:


> Trying FMC again after a 6 month break.
> 
> R2 D' L' U2 B2 D2 B' U L2 D' U F' R' B2 U2 F U D' L2 R U' F2 L' B' F'
> 
> ...


 
D' R2 D2 R' D2 R2
U F' L2 F U B2
U B U' B' R' U2 R 
R U' L U2 R' U R U2 L' R'
B2 L2 (30)

If you don't know about pseudoblocks and premoves you should; they can be very useful. Try to find the relation between the pre moves (B2 L2) and how the cube looks after 12 moves. The premoves are then applied before the scramble to make the F2L-1 look normal and when you're done with the solve you just slap them on right at the end. 

The best way to solve the LL is for the most part Snyder's approach (leave three corners with a short alg) though you don't need to instantly which alg to use just muck about a bit. Leaving three corners Heise style is also really useful.

btw I saw a post by (I think) Mirek on the Yahoo group saying that all 10-move 2c2e swaps (e.g. J-perm) are cyclical shifts of each other, but I can't seem to find it now. I feel a bit stupid for not noticing that the three algs I know (that affect only one layer) weren't shifts of each other, oh well.

Edit: Found it:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fewestmoveschallenge/message/123
I'm guessing there's some other cool stuff waiting to be dug up.


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## bwronski (Jun 16, 2011)

Has anyone made any FMC videos? Like a time lapse or a "how to" demonstrating different methods and tricks. I am interested in getting into it and somethings are hard to understand through reading.


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## DavidWoner (Jun 16, 2011)

I have received numerous requests for a fewest moves video tutorial. I will never make one. I don't see what there is to be gained through video that would actually be useful to anyone.


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## manyhobbyfreak (Jun 19, 2011)

trying out scramble from: jackj

R2 D' L' U2 B2 D2 B' U L2 D' U F' R' B2 U2 F U D' L2 R U' F2 L' B' F'

D' R2 D2 R' D2 R2 6/6
U' B2 R' U2 R B2 6/12
U' L' U' L U L2 6/18
b L U L' U' b' 6/24
U F2 U M' U2 M U F2 L 11/35
L 1/36

wow, did better that i expected.  however i could not find a good time to do u-perm in my solve :confused:
only my 6th fmc try or so.

do you guys have any tips on what i did good and what was bad?

edit: :fp really easy cancel in the end should have been L2 of course


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## irontwig (Jun 19, 2011)

Try to avoid using double layer turns and slices. This gives a 32 move total:

D' R2 D2 R' D2 R2
U' B2 R' U2 R B2
U' L' U'.L U L2 
U L U F U' F'

Insert at dot: U R U' D B' U' B D' U R' (Two moves)

But if it's only your 6th FMC then you're on the right way


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## manyhobbyfreak (Jun 20, 2011)

wow, i now see jack irontwig and me have the same beginning XD
was that 2x2 like optimal?


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## Cubenovice (Jun 20, 2011)

I think it is more likely that Irontwig uses the same start to show you where you can improve based on your start.


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## Johannes91 (Jun 24, 2011)

manyhobbyfreak said:


> R2 D' L' U2 B2 D2 B' U L2 D' U F' R' B2 U2 F U D' L2 R U' F2 L' B' F'
> 
> D' R2 D2 R' D2 R2 6/6





manyhobbyfreak said:


> wow, i now see jack irontwig and me have the same beginning XD
> was that 2x2 like optimal?


D' L2 U2 R


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## irontwig (Jul 26, 2011)

Here's some movecounts that I gathered from experience, imo it's very useful to know what's a good start and how many moves you can expect to finish up in. Feel free to correct and such.

Some movecounts for good starts:

Square+pair: 3
2x2x2: 4
Two squares: 5
2x2x3: 9
F2L-1: 14
F2L: 17

Average movecounts for insertions:

Single alg insertion:
3-corner cycle: 6
3-edge cycle: 7
2-corner 2-edge swap: 9

Two alg insertion:
2-corner twist: 8 (2+6)
5-corner cycle/4-corners "2+2" or "3+1": 10 (4+6)

Slightly higher when you need to insert edge cycles instead


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## kinch2002 (Jul 26, 2011)

Am I right in thinking that for the 2-corner twist you insert a random 3 corner cycle, then insert another one? 6 cancelled moves sounds a lot for one insertion, although I guess there are a lot of possibilities.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow, irontwig, I wish I were that good. Almost everything there is beyond me. I have to admit that if I ever get one move more than what you have for any of those things, I consider myself lucky.

But I also admit that the ratio of those values seems similar to what I see, except that I don't see how you manage to get such good results with 2-corner twists. I generally have trouble doing better than 14, so I just apply the algorithm for it at the end when I get them. How do you manage it?


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## Cubenovice (Jul 26, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Average movecounts for insertions:
> 
> Single alg insertion:
> 3-corner cycle: 6
> ...


 
I would love to see some 2-corner twist examples 

I assume the higher-than-optimal average for edge 3-cycles is due to not always finding the edges on the same slice and having to resort to 9 move U-perms?
Seems you did a -2 vs the optimal moves, perhaps the edges could get an average of 6 because sometimes you will find them on the same slice with cancellations to boot.

What HTM wold you consider the max for "leaving 5 corners"?


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## irontwig (Jul 26, 2011)

For three edges most of time the best is either a 7-mover cancelling no moves or a 10-mover (e.g. [R E R',U] or [R U R', S]) cancelling three moves. There are only two non-isomorphic 6 and 8-mover so of course those are rarer.

For the two corner twists there often several three move conjugates such L F2 L' or D R D' in the skeleton and you only need to be able to cancel away one of those to be able to leave three corners with only two extra moves.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 26, 2011)

irontwig said:


> For three edges most of time the best is either a 7-mover cancelling no moves...


Pardon my denseness, but what is an example of this?





irontwig said:


> For the two corner twists there often several three move conjugates such L F2 L' or D R D' in the skeleton and you only need to be able to cancel away one of those to be able to leave three corners with only two extra moves.


Wow, I never thought of explicitly looking for those kinds of moves. That seems like a really nice approach! Thank you!


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## Cubenovice (Jul 26, 2011)

I do pay special attention to that kind of sequences when looking for insertions but never considered this as a specific 2-twisted-corners approach.

Just recently I rage-quitted in the weekly comp on 2 twisted corners...


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## irontwig (Jul 26, 2011)

Mike Hughey said:


> Pardon my denseness, but what is an example of this?



U M U2 M' U


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 26, 2011)

irontwig said:


> U M U2 M' U


 
Oh, that one! Okay, thanks.


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## Cubenovice (Jul 27, 2011)

I think this solve (example solve thread #1179) of Irontwig deserves to be copied here:
All conjugates in blue...

scramble: F L2 D2 U2 B' R2 L2 U' F D L' U2 D F' L2 R' B D2 B D' F L' D2 F L 

*U' L' U* . D' B D L2
L F2 L' F2 U' L R' F2 L' R2 U2 : R2 F R F' U
R2

.=*U' L U* R2 U' L' U R2 cancels 6 moves
:=U2 F' D2 F U2 F' D2 F


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## JackJ (Jul 27, 2011)

Critique please. This is a really good and lucky FMC solution for me, 42 moves, one rotation.

U2 D F' B' U' R2 L U F2 D L D' L2 B2 D2 U' F2 B' L' U R2 F U' L' F2

z2 R U R' B U D' R D2
U L F' U2 L U' B' U B
U' F' U F L F' L' F
U2 F' U' F R' F R
F R2 F L F' R2 F L' F


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## Cubenovice (Jul 27, 2011)

JackJ said:


> Critique please. This is a really good and lucky FMC solution for me, 42 moves, one rotation.


 
A quick check of your start:
Right at the start of your 8 move 2x2x2 you break up a nice “square” (center-edge-center)
This is a big no-no ;-)
Try to find a way to build a new square that you can align with this one to form a (pseudo) 2x2x2

Try z2 U2 B2 U for a 3-move 2x2x2 block (OK, it is a pseudo making it 4 moves if you like)
L’ B D’ another square
L’ U B’ place pair next to square to form 1x2x3 block
U’ B2 U’ move block out of the way, place edge, align block
This is 12 moves for a pseudo F2l-slot (premove D2 to make this a regular F2L-slot in 13 moves)

And this premove is again the reason why you should never, never write with cube rotations.
The premove to apply before the scramble is U2!!!


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## kinch2002 (Jul 29, 2011)

Stuck after a really nice start. Anyone fancy helping?
[23:49] <+statue> ,3fmc
[23:49] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #20125: R L' B2 L' D' L2 U2 F L2 F L2 D2 L' D2 B' U' B L' D2 B D B U B R2
Normal Scramble
2x2x3: U B U' B2 D
Inverse scramble with PM: F' D' B2 U B' U' (6)
F2L: F2 L F' L2 F' L' F2 (13)
Anyone got a good ending/adaptation?
Also, if anyone's interested on the normal scramble you can do U B U' B2 L2 D (6) for EO as well as the block


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## Cubenovice (Jul 29, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> Stuck after a really nice start. Anyone fancy helping?
> <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #20125: R L' B2 L' D' L2 U2 F L2 F L2 D2 L' D2 B' U' B L' D2 B D B U B R2
> 
> Also, if anyone's interested on the normal scramble you can do U B U' B2 L2 D (6) for EO as well as the block



normal scramble U B U' B2 L2 D (6) for EO as well as the block 
L F' L2
D' F' D F' D' F2 D F2 Sune leaves 5 corners after 17 HTM
should be sub 30 with insertions

Edit: ehm yeah.... leaves 6 corners... :fp


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## DavidWoner (Jul 29, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Here's some movecounts that I gathered from experience, imo it's very useful to know what's a good start and how many moves you can expect to finish up in. Feel free to correct and such.
> 
> Some movecounts for good starts:
> 
> ...


 
I don't usually keep track of my square starts, but my experience agrees with the other numbers.


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## manyhobbyfreak (Aug 12, 2011)

just got really nice solve. (for me atleast)
it leaves 3 edges and is 22 moves so far

Scramble: L2 B F L R' D' U B' L' D R2 D' F' L2 B2 D2 F' L2 U2 B' D L U2 F' U

do the inverse
2X2 block: D' B2 R B2 4/4
solving rest of F2l + oll skip: F' U' F2 U' F2 R U' R' F2 L2 U L2 F L' F' U2 F U2: 18/22

does anyone find a nice place to solve the edges?


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## ilikecubing (Aug 15, 2011)

Scramble : B' L2 D R2 U' D B2 L D2 F R' F2 D' R2 B' D2 F2 B2 R' B2 R F2 U R2 D 

2x2x2: F2 D2 F U
2x2x3: D' F D' R D B' D B
F2L3: L D L' F D F' D' R F' R'
F2L4 + WV: D L D L' D' L D2 L' R' D2 L D L' D2 R
PLL: F D2 F' D' F D2 B' D F' D' B

48 moves

I felt like I had a really good start when I got the 2x2x2 so easily,but then it all went wrong,I'm sure I took more than half an hour looking for a low move extension to 2x2x3 to continue the good start,but I failed and my morale went down and the rest of the solve was just LOL.anyway I'm a big FMC nub so any tips on how to improve will be great.

I'm trying to learn premoves but I am stuck at one place,how to find the premoves and basically what is the concept of premoves? How does it give a better start?


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## okayama (Aug 15, 2011)

ilikecubing said:


> Scramble : B' L2 D R2 U' D B2 L D2 F R' F2 D' R2 B' D2 F2 B2 R' B2 R F2 U R2 D
> 
> 2x2x2: F2 D2 F U
> 2x2x3: D' F D' R D B' D B
> ...



Hi. Here is my 15 min solution with explanation how I obtained:

I started with your solve,

c/e pair: F2 D2

and found an easy way to create another block:

2x2x1 block: R U F'
2x2x2 block: D R'

Then create more squares:

Two squares: L2 B U
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: B2 L

Pseudoness may be not so easy to recognize for you, so consider the following premoves to compensate it.

Turn premoves: B L
Then turn the scramble: B' L2 D R2 U' D B2 L D2 F R' F2 D' R2 B' D2 F2 B2 R' B2 R F2 U R2 D

Then again

c/e pair: F2 D2
2x2x1 block: R U F'
2x2x2 block: D R'
Two squares: L2 B U
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 L

You can find a clean F2L minus 1 slot this time.
Then proceed:

Orient edges: U2 L U' L'
Finish F2L: U' B' U B
LL: B U2 B' U' B U' B'

A final solution for the given scramble is obtained by adding premoves at the end, i.e.,

F2 D2 / R U F' D R' / L2 B U / B2 L / U2 L U' L' / U' B' U B / B U2 B' U' B U' B' / B L

Solution: F2 D2 R U F' D R' L2 B U B2 L U2 L U' L' U' B' U B2 U2 B' U' B U' L (26 HTM)

This is how premoves work. Premoves "B L" mean that


> Consider the state obtained by moving L' B' from the solved state.
> In other words, you can solve the cube by moving B L after that.
> I recognize such a state as a *final goal* to reach.


If you turn my solution without premoves, you may find what I say.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 15, 2011)

manyhobbyfreak said:


> just got really nice solve. (for me atleast)
> it leaves 3 edges and is 22 moves so far
> 
> Scramble: L2 B F L R' D' U B' L' D R2 D' F' L2 B2 D2 F' L2 U2 B' D L U2 F' U
> ...



Hi Tristan, nice to see that you are still trying FMC.
I hope my explanation (although a bit short in time) of corner cycle insertion at Nemo 2011 has been of some use.

Same concept applies to edges but unfortunately you'll typically find less opportunities for good insertions.
The ideal insertion is an edge cycle on a center slice, taking only 6 HTM for U2 M U2 M' style cycles
No such luck in your solve...

But you do have your three edges in an U-perm somewhere in your solve.
Optimal U-perm is 9 HTM (a= B2 U M U2 M' U B2 , b=B2 U' M U2 M' U' B2)
Apply stickers 1-2-3 to your three edges and see if you can find it.

With the 9- mover you're at 31 HTM for the full solve.

Cheers,
Ralph

NB: be very carefull with slice moves in FMC! Keep a close eye on those centers!
U2 M *U2* M' is actually U2 L' R *B2* L R'


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## Sebastien (Aug 15, 2011)

I'd like to share my funny solution from Düsseldorf Open 2011 

Scramble: D' R2 U R2 F2 D' B2 U' R2 F2 L2 U F' D' L F R U2 F' R D2 R

This is what I found within 15 minutes:

Pseudo 2x2x3: B' F D' F R' F' U R U' F' U2
Pseudo-Tripod: R B2 R U R' . U' B U R2 B R' B'
3-cycle: R2 B R B'

Just a 3-cycle in 27 moves, so nothing special at all. I still decided to make an insertion to have a decent safety solution. Then out of nowhere:

. = R U' L U R' U' L' U

6!!! move cancelation  I have never ever had more than 5 move cancelation before! 

Solution: B' F D' F R' F' U R U' F' U2 R B2 R L U R' U' L' B U R2 B R' B' R2 B R B' 

29 moves, 27 moves for the 3-cycle but still sub30


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## Julian (Aug 16, 2011)

Decided to do my first ever FMC  Of course it's terrible, but I'm still familiarizing myself with the techniques.

Scramble: L F' B' R' D2 F R F U2 R' F' L2 U' F' D' R' D' B' R' F' L' F' U B' L2

*2x2x3:* D' B' D2 B2 D' . B' U F B2 R U
*Cross + C of F2L3 + E of F2L4:* F R F' R' F
*Finish F2L:* U L D2 L' D L .. D' L' U'
*OLL:* F' R' D' R D F
*Adjust:* D2

Insert edge 3-cycle YB->YR->YO (F' B U2 F B' R2) at ".", cancelling no moves.
Insert corner 3-cycle YRB->YGR->YOG (R' U R D' R' U' R D) at "..", cancelling 2 moves.

Final Solution:


Spoiler



D' B' D2 B2 D' F' B U2 F B' R2 B' U F B2 R U
F R F' R' F
U L D2 L' D L R' U R D' R' U' R L' U'
F' R' D' R D F
D2


44 moves.


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## Rpotts (Aug 16, 2011)

that's an interesting solution, when I read your solution and say the Cross+ 1 edge and one corner thing then Finish F2L I kinda facepalmed, but you actually did that really well. Not exactly the best FMC technique but 44 moves for first try isn't bad at all. I would recommend creating a F2L-1 then manipulating the last layer as much as you can before finishing the F2L (if you do at all,) like make a tripod or orient edges or reduce to L3C. I'm going to see if I can't find a better continuation after your 2x2x3.


Scramble: L F' B' R' D2 F R F U2 R' F' L2 U' F' D' R' D' B' R' F' L' F' U B' L2

2x2x3: D' B' D2 B2 D' B' U F B2 R U

F2L-1: F D U L D' L' U'

Tripod: D2 F D' F'


ugh that leaves a terrible terrible continuation.

I may try again later.


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## Brest (Aug 17, 2011)

Julian said:


> *OLL:* F' R' D' R D F


The B/F mirror of this alg still achieves OLL; however you will leave 3 corners instead of a G perm. 

B R D R' D' B'

Mirroring algs is very important in FMC, they are kind of 'free' and give you many more options.

It is also important to not look at solving the last layer the same as you would in a speed solve. For example: OLL then PLL is not very move efficient (although some times it can be). Your goal at this stage is not orienting the LL, it's leaving a 3 cycle. (Well, really it's solving the cube  but a short LL is usually just luck.) Try block building from "F2L-1 slot" so that when you finish the F2L some of the LL is also complete, be it just edge orientation, a CE pair, or a 1x2x2 block.

In your example the OLL used orients the edges (well, obviously) but it left 3 corners and 3 edges. When this happens you could try a different OLL that also orients the edges and maybe find one that completely solves the edges and also leaves 3 corners. This was a relatively lucky case where the mirror does just that, but there are other short LL algs that can be used to fix EO and one of them just might leave a 3 cycle.


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## Jorghi (Aug 17, 2011)

O_O 2x2x3??? Is that what FMC is??? How long does it take to plan those?

Wouldn't it be good to do 2x2x2 blocks in normal 3x3x3 solving. Sort of like making a reduction method? Because its fast in 4x4x4.


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## Julian (Aug 17, 2011)

Brest said:


> The B/F mirror of this alg still achieves OLL; however you will leave 3 corners instead of a G perm.
> 
> B R D R' D' B'
> 
> ...


Thank you! I hadn't considered B/F mirrors for some reason.

In fact I didn't have a G-perm, but an R-perm. (On that note, is there a better way to deal to insert edge+corner swap PLLs into the skeleton besides a corner 3cycle + an edge 3cycle?)

Also, I have read that blockbuilding from F2L-1 is a very good way to end a skeleton, but I don't really know how it's done.

Thanks again


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## Brest (Aug 17, 2011)

Julian said:


> Thank you! I hadn't considered B/F mirrors for some reason.
> 
> In fact I didn't have a G-perm, but an R-perm. (On that note, is there a better way to deal to insert edge+corner swap PLLs into the skeleton besides a corner 3cycle + an edge 3cycle?)
> 
> ...


Yes, R perm not G perm, although both are two 3 cycles.

Some of the more proficient FMCers can use insertions to solve 2 edges and 2 corners. iirc the idea is the same (stickering & then stepping through the skeleton), but instead of using commutators to cycle 3 pieces you would look for a place where the 4 pieces are positioned correctly for a previously learned algorithm. For example an R perm can be solved in 13 moves, where a J perm can be 10 moves. If you find a place in your skeleton where a J perm would solve the 2E2C then you've saved 3 moves (more if moves cancel). These algorithms are not just PLLs, but rather any short algorithm.

A good way to practice from F2L-1 is to just try as many different ways of pairing then inserting the last pair as you can find. Different insertions R U2 R' instead of R U' R', or the Hammer group R' F R F', to other ideas like using different setup moves F R U2' R' F'. Just experiment with things you know, learn some new tricks, and then try to understand how those algorithms effect the other unsolved pieces. Or just try a bunch of stuff until something works!


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## Cubenovice (Aug 17, 2011)

Brest said:


> A good way to practice from F2L-1 is to just try as many different ways of pairing then inserting the last pair as you can find. Different insertions R U2 R' instead of R U' R', or the Hammer group R' F R F', to other ideas like using different setup moves F R U2' R' F'. Just experiment with things you know, learn some new tricks, and then try to understand how those algorithms effect the other unsolved pieces. *Or just try a bunch of stuff until something works!*



Fully agree, at F2L-1 I always spend some time "just" inserting the pair in different ways and see what OLL's I get, then spam those OLL's with a bunch of short algs and their mirrors. If this leaves me with three corners or edges I continue, otherwise I try some EO / blockbuilding stuff at F2L-1.

Knowing your sunes can be an easy way to get to 3 corners. With 4 edges oriented and two in the right relative positions there's a pretty good chance for leaving three corners. Choose your sune/anti sunes as such that they "swap" the incorrrect edges, do not look at the corners like you would normally do.
For the same LL you can do this with the "bad" edges in 4 orientations using 4 different Sunes; they will all "swap" the edges but give a diffrent end-result.

Sune
Antisune
Sune'
Antisune'

Same goes for LL with two edges oriented, for the L-shape you can do the standard f R U R' U' f' and it's lef thand version but make sure to try some fat sunes from diff angles too.
Only one additional move but you increase you chances of ending in a 3 cycle



Jorghi said:


> O_O 2x2x3??? Is that what FMC is???


No; building a 2x2x3 is just a possible start, nothing more, nothing less




Jorghi said:


> Wouldn't it be good to do 2x2x2 blocks in normal 3x3x3 solving. Sort of like making a reduction method? Because its fast in 4x4x4.


Petrus?
X-cross in CFOP?


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## guusrs (Aug 22, 2011)

Hi 

Congratz to Tomoaki Okayama who achieved a Japanese Record for Fewest Moves in 28 moves.
Last weekend at Cube Camp Kanazawa 2011
Do you have the scramble for us Tomoaki?

Gus


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm planning on creating a "into to FMC" tutorial of sorts.
Please list out the things which you think would be necessary to cover.

Right now:
inverse scrambles
taking advantage of having three cubes
insertions & cancelling
commutators
go over methods & HTM counting
using your time well.

What else?


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## Brest (Aug 22, 2011)

StachuK1992 said:


> I'm planning on creating a "into to FMC" tutorial of sorts.
> Please list out the things which you think would be necessary to cover.
> 
> Right now:
> ...


 
1st things that came to mind:
pseudo blocks
premoves

-how they can relate to each other & how you can find premoves with the inverse scramble.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 22, 2011)

StachuK1992 said:


> I'm planning on creating a "into to FMC" tutorial of sorts.


 
Damn you Stachu for stealing my thunder! ;-)
I was thinking about doing someting along the same lines (but targeted to the FMC noobs that use CFOP as their main methods)
Good thing I spend todays writing session on HTA for FMC...

Anyway: any FMC tutorial *must* link to AVG thread http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques.

Some things to add:
- Use of mirrors / inverses. Both Brest and I wrote something about it recently.
Always explore various insertions for the last CE pair at the F2L-1 stage. Then then spam the LL with multiple algs and angles.
Gettin lucky (especuially when hunting for it) is not a crime.

- Heise: Heise's (pages on) the last 2 steps are assum. Must be mentioned.

- Irontwigs sub step "average HTM" for going sub 30


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## irontwig (Aug 22, 2011)

guusrs said:


> Hi
> 
> Congratz to Tomoaki Okayama who achieved a Japanese Record for Fewest Moves in 28 moves.
> Last weekend at Cube Camp Kanazawa 2011
> ...


 
Congrats, Okayama! I too hope to get a sub-30 in september.

Stachu: Learning LL algs can be useful; especially stuff like R U R2 F R F2 U F U2 or B' R' U R B L U' L' because they solve edge cases they you can't you efficiently with (OLL) algs thay you actually use for speed.


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## guusrs (Aug 22, 2011)

StachuK1992 said:


> I'm planning on creating a "into to FMC" tutorial of sorts.
> Please list out the things which you think would be necessary to cover.
> 
> Right now:
> ...


 
NISS of course!


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 22, 2011)

I have to familiarize myself with NISS still then. 
Looks like I have something to look forward to this afternoon.


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## okayama (Aug 22, 2011)

irontwig said:


> guusrs said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...



Thank you all!  irontwig, I know you can get!

1st scramble: F2 R2 U2 B D2 R F' L2 R' D B U' L2 F' D' L' R2 U' L' R2 F U2 L R2 U2
1st solution: L' D F2 D' L F L2 B' L F' L' B L D' L D F' D' F D L F2 R' F2 L' B' D B (28 HTM)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: D2 F2 D' L

1st square: (done)
2nd square: B' D' B
3rd square: L F2
F2L minus 1 slot: R F2 L' D' *
Finish F2L: F' D F D'
All but 3 corners: L' D F L F' L' D'
Correction: D2 F2 D' L

Insert at *: D2 F' U2 F D2 F' U2 F

Great scramble with three pre-made c/e pairs, so I expected AsR during the solve, but unfortunately I couldn't find such a solution in time.

In the remaining 30 min, I found the following shorter, 21-move skeleton:

(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: D2 F2 D' L

1st square: (done)
2nd square: B' D' B
3rd square: L F2
F2L minus 1 slot: R F2 L' D'
All but 3 corners: L D' L2 D F L' F' L
Correction: D2 F2 D' L

But I couldn't find a good insertion that cancels more than 1 move.
Therefore I submitted the previous solution.


2nd scramble: D2 L R' D B' L2 R F2 D2 L' U' R2 D B2 D B' F D2 U2 F2 D2 R' B2 R2 D2
2nd solution: R' B L F L' U' L U B' U' F U B U' B' U' F' U' R U F2 D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B' L B (31 HTM)


Spoiler



NISS solve.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F' B' R

1st square: B' L'
2nd square: F2 U'
3rd square: R' U F U B
F2L minus 1 slot: F' L'

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L F B' U' F' U' R U F2 L B

F2L minus 1 slot: R' B L F L'
All but 5 corners: U'
Correction: L * F B' U' F' U' R U F2 + L B

1st insertion at *: U B' U' F U B U' F' (to save time, didn't search after this place)
2nd insertion at +: D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B' (no cancel )


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## y235 (Aug 22, 2011)

guusrs said:


> NISS of course!


 
what does it means?


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## Cubenovice (Aug 22, 2011)

y235 said:


> what does it means?


 
Novel Inspection System by Schultz


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 22, 2011)

Link me to the best description? I'm still looking around..


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## Yes We Can! (Aug 22, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Novel Inspection System by Schultz


 
I thought it was _Normal Inverse Scramble Switch_.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 22, 2011)

Yes said:


> I thought it was _Normal Inverse Scramble Switch_.



There's no place for "thinking" in cubing!
CFOP has eliminated the need for it...


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## Cubenovice (Aug 22, 2011)

StachuK1992 said:


> Link me to the best description? I'm still looking around..



Here's the original post by Guus from waaaay up in this thread:

Hi folks,

For advanced FMC users here is a nice example of my NISS-method for FMC (Novel-Inspection-System by Schultz):
Scramble: (fmc.mustcube.net #265) F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2 R L' F2 U' F' L

my solve: D' B' U B2 D' L F2 L' D R U2 R U2 B' R' U2 RU' R B' R' F2 U' L B' (25)
explanation:
inverse scramble: nice start: B L' U F2 (4)
apply on normal sramble: [pre-moves F2 U' L B'] nice continuation: D' B' U B2 R2
apply on inverse scramble: [pre-moves R2 B2 U' B D]: B L' U F2 (4+[5])
then continuation on inverse scramble was easy: 
F2L: R B R' U R' U2 R B (12+[5])
LL: U2 R' U2 R' D' L F2 L' D R2 (22+[5])
pre-move correction: R2 B2 U' B D, 2 moves cancel (25)
Took my 90 minutes including finding a 29-move 1-hour solution

NB. I should reduce executing time otherwise I will get an DNF next WC as well

Gus


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## Yes We Can! (Aug 22, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> There's no place for "thinking" in cubing!
> CFOP has eliminated the need for it...


 
no need to be so aggressive... There are also CFOP solvers that _think_ when solving




. Also, why does it bother you that some people don't _think_ when they solve the cube? They might be just lazy or not interested in cube theory and I don't see any reason to blame them for that, even if they were just stupid ... Just do what you like and let other people do what they please and don't complain when you dislike their _thoughtless_ approaches.


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## guusrs (Aug 22, 2011)

Yes said:


> I thought it was _Normal Inverse Scramble Switch_.



You are right!

Cubenovice is joking ;-) (and *Schultz* is not my name!)


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## DavidWoner (Aug 22, 2011)

My super unlucky solution for second scramble at US Nats

Scramble: D U' B2 U2 L2 U2 L D B' F D2 B' D U R U2 B2 U

2x2x2: D' L' D L D L D' [7/7] (I know there were a few 5 movers but I was curious about this one)
psuedoF2L-1: B R L U' L' R U [7/14]
some stuff: B R2 [2/16]
leave 3 corners: R' D' R D2 B D' B' [7/23-1]
3cycle: D L2 D R' D' L2 D R D2 [9/32-1]

Resulting in 31 moves. Unless I am grossly mistaken there is not a single 8 move insertion possible. I wasted a lot of time checking this because I have never heard of such a thing happening. Of course it is theoretically possible but I just figured that it was so improbable that I would never encounter it. I was so furious that I couldn't manage to write down my solution properly and took the DNF, even though I *should* have easily gotten a 29 or better.

Am I mistaken or is 31 moves really the best result possible for that skeleton? Has anyone else experienced this?


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## Cubenovice (Aug 22, 2011)

Yes said:


> no need to be so aggressive... There are also CFOP solvers that _think_ when solving
> 
> 
> 
> . Also, why does it bother you that some people don't _think_ when they solve the cube? They might be just lazy or not interested in cube theory and I don't see any reason to blame them for that, even if they were just stupid ... Just do what you like and let other people do what they please and don't complain when you dislike their _thoughtless_ approaches.



Dammit, I always forget to ad winks  to my jokes.
Don't worry; I do not look down upon any method or style of solving, it's all good to me.

Perhaps I should have posted my original idea, then it would have been more obvious that I was joking. " What do you know about cubing"   

Sorry Guus, there is no R in Niss so I had to cancel some stuff in true FMC style.


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## Mike Hughey (Aug 22, 2011)

@David: I remembered someone told me about this and I thought it sounded utterly impossible. I did find this that's one move better (due to a single cancellation on a 9-mover), so it's down to 30 moves, but it still astonishes me that there are no 8-movers in the whole solve.

2x2x2: D' L' D L D L . D'
psuedoF2L-1: B R L U' L' R U
some stuff: B R2
leave 3 corners: R' D' R D2 B D' B'
insert at .: L U2 L D2 L' U2 L D2 L2
L L become L2 before insertion

Very nice solve, by the way.


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## cuBerBruce (Aug 23, 2011)

When you have a case where a corner 3-cycle needs to have a sticker move to the opposite face on an adjacent corner position (e.g. DRF -> UFR), I think of this as a "bad pair" of corners. When you have such a bad pair, there are no 8-movers for that position, no matter where the 3rd corner is. In the example DRF -> UFR, only a D or U layer move will break up the bad pair, so I often see such bad pairs survive several moves in a row. And when they do get broken up, you still might have a different pair (out of the three pairs in the 3-cycle) that is bad.

Unfortunately, in David's skeleton, there is a bad pair (or sometimes two) at every point in the skeleton except at three points. And those 3 points require a 12-mover. Although the skeleton has two places with commuting moves, swapping the commuting moves doesn't help either. I'm sure I've seen skeletons with bad pairs (or 12-move cases) existing through much of the skeleton, but I don't recall one like this where no 8-mover can be done anywhere.


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## okayama (Aug 23, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> My super unlucky solution for second scramble at US Nats
> 
> Scramble: D U' B2 U2 L2 U2 L D B' F D2 B' D U R U2 B2 U
> 
> ...


 
See my post. I've experienced both 9-move cancellation and 9-move insertion.


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## riffz (Aug 25, 2011)

Just got this scramble in qqtimer: R2 L2 D L2 U R2 L D2 L' F' B' U2 B D2 B' U' F2 L2 U' D R U R' D' L' 

I'm curious to see what you guys can do.


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## DavidWoner (Aug 25, 2011)

Decided I wanted to practice

Scramble: D' B2 R F U' L' F' B2 L' U' F U' L F' R2 U2 B D2 R2 U2 D B2 U B' U'
Inverse Scramble: U B U' B2 D' U2 R2 D2 B' U2 R2 F L' U F' U L B2 F L U F' R' B2 D

2x2x2: U2 L2 B' L
2x2x3: F' R' F D2 R2 D

Apply premove D' R2 D2 F' R F L' B L2 U2 to inverse scramble

F2L-1: D R D'
F2L: R' F D R2 D'

Apply premove D R2 D' F' R D R' D' to regular scramble

2x2x2: U2 L2 B' L [4/4]
2x2x3: F' R' F D2 R2 D [6/10]
F2L: *F* [1/11]
COLL: *F* D2 R' D2 R D2 R F' B R2 B' [11/22-1]
undo premove: D R2 D' F' R D R' D' [8/30-1]

Solution: U2 L2 B' L F' R' F D2 R2 D F2 D2 R' D2 R D2 R F' B R2 B' D R2 D' F' R D R' D'

29 moves. Not enough time for anything more elegant. Double NISS was fun though


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## AJ Blair (Aug 25, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> Decided I wanted to practice
> 
> Scramble: D' B2 R F U' L' F' B2 L' U' F U' L F' R2 U2 B D2 R2 U2 D B2 U B' U'
> Inverse Scramble: U B U' B2 D' U2 R2 D2 B' U2 R2 F L' U F' U L B2 F L U F' R' B2 D
> ...


 
Thank you for typing that all out! As a beginner to FMC, I see you guys saying all this stuff about the inverse and then premoves and I was getting uber confused...but with this post, I actually understand what to do now! 

Here's one I did yesterday...pretty much pure CFOP...

Scramble: F' U' D L' D F D' B2 F' U F2 B2 U R L' U D F2 U' D' R L2 U R L2 

F' L F R2 L U' R' F D2 F' L2 // 2x2x3
R' D' R F2 D2 F' D F D' F D F' D F D F2// F2L plus setup into OLL
R' F L' F' R F L D // SKIP!!!! gogogogo done!

35 moves...that's the best I've done so far...really lucky...I hope to learn more and get better!


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## irontwig (Aug 25, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> Scramble: D' B2 R F U' L' F' B2 L' U' F U' L F' R2 U2 B D2 R2 U2 D B2 U B' U'



This looks kinda nice:
Pseudo 2x2x3+2 pairs: L2 B' L D2 U F2 (Pre-moves F2 U' R) 
But I couldn't find a a good finish, CE spat out a (seemingly) unfindable 15 move finish for L&D.


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## okayama (Aug 26, 2011)

irontwig said:


> DavidWoner said:
> 
> 
> > Scramble: D' B2 R F U' L' F' B2 L' U' F U' L F' R2 U2 B D2 R2 U2 D B2 U B' U'
> ...



Quick skeleton:

Pre-scramble: U R

1st square: F L' B R'
2nd square: D' B2
3rd square: D2 B' U
F2L minus 1 slot: R'

Then

All but 5 corners: B' R' B R B

or

All but 4 corners: B D2 L B L' B' D2

Too lazy to find insertions.


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## DavidWoner (Aug 27, 2011)

Moar.

Scramble: U2 L R' U' L2 B2 D' L F U2 B' R2 L D2 U' R2 F2 B2 U' F2 U2 B D2 L' D

2x2x3: U F' U D L, B' U' L F' L [10/10]
F2L-1: D2 R' [2/12]
Finish edges: F D F' D R' D [6/18]

Insertions
,= D2 B' U2 B D2 B' .U2 B cancelling 3 moves.
.= F' U B2 U' F U B2 U' cancelling 2 moves.

Resulting in another 29 move solution:
U F' U D L D2 B' U2 B D2 B' F' U B2 U' F U B2 L F' L D2 R' F D F' D R' D

Still kind of disappointing considering the start. I wanted to practice 5 corner insertions though, they still take me longer than they should. Luckily it was a pure 5 cycle and not 2-2 plus twisted or something like a twisted 3-cycle plus two twisted.


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## DavidWoner (Aug 28, 2011)

MOAR!!

Scramble: F2 R B2 L D' L2 D2 F D' U R' B2 D' L2 F' L' U' D' F' L' F2 R' F2 D' B2

Some blocks and junk: D F' L R2 B' D2, B D' U' [9/9]
Connect: L' B' L . [3/12]
F2L-1: U2 F B' R F' B [6/18]
Leave 2 twisted: R U' R' [3/21]

Insertions:
.= L' B L F2 L' B' L F2 cancelling 6 moves.
,= D' B U B' D B U' B' cancelling 4 moves.

Solution: D F' L R2 B' D B U B' D B U2 D' F2 L' B' L F2 U2 F B' R F' B R U' R'
27 moves

Comment: This one was so much fun! So many blocks to play around with in the beginning, and the most fun double insertion possible. I was happy the second one turned out so well. This reminds me of my second solve at Nats09 where I also got to 2 twisted corners in 21 moves, but there I was pressed for time and already had a 27 from the previous day so I just DNFed it. Funfunfunfun!!

By the way, I didn't fully explore all the options for the first insertion, I only evaluated things around B' D2 B, L' B' L, and R U' R' looking for massive insertions. I should have also evaluated F R F' and B' R B but w/e this worked out nicely. If someone can find something better though I'd be interested.


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## okayama (Aug 28, 2011)

If you want to practice for FMC, I recommend to try not only normal/easy scrambles but also hard scrambles.
Needless to say, the hardest scramble first, and here are the scrambles for which I couldn't achieve Sub 30.


FMC336: F' R U D' L2 F' B' U' B2 F2 L R' U D B2 F L R' B R' B D F2 R' D2 F' B' D U2 R
FMC307: L' D B' D2 F' B U D' R F' D F' L B' D R' L' D F2 L D B2 F' U' L' R2 B' F L2 R
FMC283: U' D2 B U L' B' F2 D2 L R U2 F' R' L2 D U2 F2 B' D' L' B' F2 U R B' F' R' U' B2 F2*
FMC280: U' F2 U' D2 B2 U' B' F U' B L' U2 D' L' F2 B D2 B' L' B F R D R2 U R' F' U2 D R2
FMC279: U' F' U2 B' L D' U F2 L2 B' U2 F2 B2 R U' B L U F' B' D U B R' B2 F R2 D2 L R2*
FMC272: D2 L D' L2 U R' L2 B L R2 F D2 L R B' R F' R B' U' D L2 B' R D' R2 L2 F2 U' B*
AFAIK no one has achieved Sub 30 for the hardest scramble and the scrambles above with '*' at end. Try them first.


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## Tim Reynolds (Aug 28, 2011)

My 29 from US Nationals:

Scramble: D U' B2 U2 L2 U2 L D B' F D2 B' D U R U2 B2 U
Solution: B2 D' L2 F2 L' B L B' L2 B D B' D' B' L U2 B' D B U2 B' D' L' B R D R' B L (29)

start on regular scramble, premove L:
2x2x2: B2 D' L2 F2 (4|4)
pseudo-2x2x3: L' B L B' L2 (5|9)
NISS with premove L2 B L' B' L F2 L2 D B2
fix 2x2x3: L' (1|10)
cross piece: B' R D' R' (4|14)
pair3: B' L B L' (4|18)
pair4: B D B D' (4|22)
edges skip: B' (1|23)
this gives 23 skeleton: B2 D' L2 F2 L' B L B' L2 B D B' D' B' L * B' L' B R D R' B L
insert U2 B' D B U2 B' D' B (6|29) at * for 29 total.

Also my 27 NAR from Hackley:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...0-Tarrytown-NY&p=617474&viewfull=1#post617474


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## Cielo (Aug 29, 2011)

okayama said:


> If you want to practice for FMC, I recommend to try not only normal/easy scrambles but also hard scrambles.
> Needless to say, the hardest scramble first, and here are the scrambles for which I couldn't achieve Sub 30.
> ……


 
Aha, the scramble below also has kind of symmetry, that no 2 adjacent(even adjacent in diagonal sense) cubies are of the same color.
L' R2 B2 D2 B2 R' B L' D' U F' L' F2 D' R2 B' U2 R F2 U'
So can it be a hard scramble?


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## HelpCube (Aug 30, 2011)

Just did my first FMC, im terrible (49 moves). Can you give me some tips?

Scramble: R2 B D B2 D U B F2 R' B L2 U' F2 B R D2 B' R2 D B2 D2 B' U D' L R' B' D' B2 L2



Spoiler



1x2x2: U' F2 D2 L R' F2 (6/6)
2x2x2: D (used for 2x2x3) R (2/8)
2x2x3: L D' U' F2 U (5/13)
Orient Edges: D2 R' D' R (4/17)
F2L slot 3: D' F' D2 F2 (4/21)
F2L slot 4: D F D2 F' D2 F D' F' (8/29)
OLL: R' D' R D' R' D2 R (7/36)
PLL: F2 d' F D' F D F' d F2 L D' L' D' (13/49)
Tips please?


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## tozies24 (Aug 30, 2011)

F' L' F' B' L' U R2 B' R D2 F L2 D' U' R B2 L F' R' U' F2 U B2 L' R2 

My first two FMC solves ever. I hope I did them right. Even though my blockbuilding improved just in doing these two solves, they still feel too CFOPy. 

2x2x2: D R2 D U R U R' U2 R U R' (11/11)
2x2x3: L U2 L' U' L U L2 (7/18)
3rd slot: R B R' U B2 U (6/24)
F2L: B2 U B2 U' B L' *B' L* (8/32)
OLL:* L' B' *D' B D* L* (6/38)
PLL:* L* B2 L' B' L B2 R' B L' B' R (11/49)

49 -4 = 45 Moves 
D R2 D U R U R' U2 R U R' L U2 L' U' L U L2 R B R' U B2 U B2 U B2 U' B L' *B2* D' B D *L2* B2 L' B' L B2 R' B L' B' R

Cool. 2x2x2 Block absolutely sucked, but the rest of the solve turned out decently for my first FM solve. 

B R L F U2 B2 U2 L2 R U' R L' D L2 D2 B D L2 R2 D' F2 D' B' R U2

2x2x2: D U' R2 (3/3)
2x2x3: L' D' R D R'(5/8)
3rd slot: D L2 D (3/11)
F2l: L2 D L D' L2 B' L B (8/19)
OLL: U L U' L' U' F U F' (8/27)
PLL: L' U' L2 U L U' L2 D L' U L D' (12/39)

39 Moves
D U' R2 L' D' R D R' D L2 D L2 D L D' L2 B' L B U L U' L' U' F U F' L' U' L2 U L U' L2 D L' U L D' 

Some one who is accomplished in FMC should take a look at this start. 
I don't know/ couldn't find anything fancy after the 3rd slot.


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## irontwig (Aug 30, 2011)

tozies24 said:


> B R L F U2 B2 U2 L2 R U' R L' D L2 D2 B D L2 R2 D' F2 D' B' R U2
> 
> 2x2x2: D U' R2 (3/3)
> 2x2x3: L' D' R D R'(5/8)
> ...


 
D U' R2 L' D' R D R' D L2 D B D' B' D2 U R2 U' L2 U R2 U' D' L B' L' B L2 (28)

D U' R2 L' D' R D R'
D L2 D (Your start)
B D' B' D2 L2.D' L B' L' B L2

Insert at dot: L2 U R2 U' L2 U R2 U' (Two moves cancel)

11 move F2L-1 is really nice, it's more or less guaranteed sub-30.


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## reyrey (Aug 30, 2011)

okayama said:


> If you want to practice for FMC, I recommend to try not only normal/easy scrambles but also hard scrambles.
> Needless to say, the hardest scramble first, and here are the scrambles for which I couldn't achieve Sub 30.
> 
> 
> ...


 
One of my very first FMC attempt:

FMC336: F' R U D' L2 F' B' U' B2 F2 L R' U D B2 F L R' B R' B D F2 R' D2 F' B' D U2 R

Solve:
L' D R F' D (5)
L' U L' B L2 B' (11)
U2 R U' R' B U' B' (18)
U' F' U2 F U' R U R2 (26)
F' d F' U' F2 R B R' F' R (36)
y2 (x) R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R (45)

Maybe I'll try a few more soon (That above one was 5~10 minutes)

FMC307: L' D B' D2 F' B U D' R F' D F' L B' D R' L' D F2 L D B2 F' U' L' R2 B' F L2 R

U' R L F' B' L U L' D (9)
B' R B R' (13)
L U2 L' U B' U B (20)
F' U2 F2 U F' U (26)
R U' R' U R' F R U2 F' U' F U' F' U (40)
R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 (53)

Thought about this instead:
All the same until OLL, (Added 1 move because of the cancellation in the previous attempt)

U' R L F' B' L U L' D (9)
B' R B R' (13)
L U2 L' U B' U B (20)
F' U2 F2 U F' U F' (27)
L' U' L U' L' U2 L (34)
y' x R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 (43)

FMC283: U' D2 B U L' B' F2 D2 L R U2 F' R' L2 D U2 F2 B' D' L' B' F2 U R B' F' R' U' B2 F2*

y' x R' D L' R2 (4)
U F U2 F R' F2 R (11)
F R' F' R (15)
U R' U R U' R' U R (23)
L U2 L' U2 L U' L' (30)
R B U B' U' M' B U B' U' r' (41)
U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M' (51)

Didn't go too well, can't think of improvement.




I'd be happy if someone could make the solves better (Continue from somewhere)


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## irontwig (Aug 30, 2011)

At least it looks nice written down.


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## okayama (Aug 30, 2011)

Cielo said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to practice for FMC, I recommend to try not only normal/easy scrambles but also hard scrambles.
> ...


 
Yeah, I believe so. Maybe equivalent to the hardest.
In fact Cube Explorer says God cannot achieve Sub 20 for this one.

That reminds me the scramble of Dutch Open 2009, and it may be worth trying, as a scramble given in the real competition.
My try in 1-hour can be seen here.

EDIT: further reminds: U' D2 L R' F2 R B D' F' B2 U' D' F' R2 L2 F U B' D2 U' B' L F2 U R D' B F R' U' (FMC310)
Quite hard for 1-hour solve (discussion about it).


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## Cielo (Aug 30, 2011)

okayama said:


> Yeah, I believe so. Maybe equivalent to the hardest.
> In fact Cube Explorer says God cannot achieve Sub 20 for this one.
> 
> That reminds me the scramble of Dutch Open 2009, and it may be worth trying, as a scramble given in the real competition.
> ...


 
As to the Dutch Open 2009 one, I just tried and got a start like this: U' L' R2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 D' R F' R2 D F2 D' F.
But I'm not good at the last layer at all. After this start, I only find
NISS: R2 B R B2 D' B D' R D2 F D F' D2, leaves only two twisted corners……


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## DavidWoner (Aug 31, 2011)

32 moves on the hardest scramble. About 6 hours so far. I will sub30 this if it kills me.

NISS with psuedoblock and PLL skip.
Linky, should be fairly obvious which parts are which.


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## kinch2002 (Sep 1, 2011)

Just spent a couple of hours on the hardest scramble, and came out with 15 move F2L-1 and EO as my best effort.
Or 28 moves to leave 3 corners and hope for 7 move cancellation


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## irontwig (Sep 4, 2011)

The triumphant return of Mirek Goljan:
http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=361&format=classic&metric=htm


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## Attila (Sep 4, 2011)

Congratz Mirek, nice return 
My solution was completed too late, but i published, because a good example for NISS.

Scramble: R2 B D B2 D U B F2 R' B L2 U' F2 B R D2 B' R2 D B2 D2 B' U D' L R' B' D' B2 L2
D’L2D’F2U’R’LF2D2RLF’R2L’B’R’LUR’FR’DB2RL (25 moves)
NISS solve,
inverse scramble with premoves L2D,
R’L’B2D
switch to normal scramble,
D’F2U,
(this is my best start, but the continuation a hard case)
switch to inverse scramble,
RF’RU’L’RBLR2FL’R’D2F2L’RU2, one move cancel.


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## guusrs (Sep 4, 2011)

irontwig said:


> The triumphant return of Mirek Goljan:
> http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=361&format=classic&metric=htm


 
What a suprise Mirek! And with a nice 21-move solution!
I found a similar F2L, same corners but different edges, and could't solve this LL in 13 moves or less.


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## nccube (Sep 4, 2011)

In a Spanish FMC page I usually participate in we had this scramble:
D' F2 L F' D' R U' B' U' L' F2 D' R2 D' L' B R D2 F L' B U R2 D2

My skeleton was something like this:

2x2x2: F D' B' L
2x2x3: R F U F' U2
EO: F2 R' D'.F2 D
Leave 3 corners + a twisted one: R F R2 F R F R F'

OK, I inserted R B R' F2 R B' R' F2 at (.) to solve a corner and take the twisted one out of its place. But now I can't insert the 3-cycle that remains efficiently, so I just solved it with an A9. What would you do with my skeleton?


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## Cubenovice (Sep 4, 2011)

nccube said:


> D' F2 L F' D' R U' B' U' L' F2 D' R2 D' L' B R D2 F L' B U R2 D2
> 
> 2x2x2: F D' B' L
> 2x2x3: R F U F' U2
> ...



You may want to take another look at the twisted corner cycle, the first one I found cancels 4 moves instead of your 2:

2x2x2: F *. D' B' * L
2x2x3: R F U F' U2
EO: F2 R' D'.F2 D
Leave 3 corners + a twisted one: R F R2 F R F R F'

at . insert B' U2 B D' B' U2 *B D* to cancel 4 moves

I did not check further


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## cuBerBruce (Sep 5, 2011)

I found a 7-move 2x2x3 for FMC #361, and figured it was probably optimal. Actually, the optimal 2x2x3 was only 6 moves: D' L D2 L2 F' D2. I had also found an 8-move 2x2x3 (U' L' R D2 U' B U L2) which was actually optimal for the DF 2x2x3 block. However, I couldn't find a really good finish for either block. The best I could come up with was 30 moves. Anyway, it doesn't look like anyone else found the 6-move block either, or else found it but didn't use it.

I note FMC #356 had a 5-move 2x2x3 block.

And my congrats too on the Mirek-ulous 21-mover.



HelpCube said:


> Just did my first FMC, im terrible (49 moves). Can you give me some tips?
> 
> Scramble: R2 B D B2 D U B F2 R' B L2 U' F2 B R D2 B' R2 D B2 D2 B' U D' L R' B' D' B2 L2
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler



L' D2 L2 completes the 2x2x3 much more efficiently than L D' U' F2 U.
(An interesting continuation is D F2 (finish cross) F D2 F2 D2' F (3rd slot) leaves only 6 pieces to solve.)

F2L slot 4: 8 moves is a lot of moves just to solve 2 pieces.

OLL: First of all, if you orient edges as a separate step, you should probably be looking at COLL/EPLL instead of OLL/PLL at the very least. But learn about other FMC techniques for finishing a solve.

Second, you ought to know alternative ways to do OLLs, and how symmetry and inverses can sometimes allow you to do do something a different wayif/when applicable. For a sune, the inverse mirror alg, applied from the correct angle can be used in place of it. F D2 F' D' F D' F' not only gets you three moves canceling with the previous alg, but leaves a J-Perm instead of a G-Perm. Solving J-Perm F2 U F U' F R2 B' D B R2 D2 gets another canceled move. This rather obvious alternative to have tried alone shortens the solution by 6 moves!

Usual tips: Read the FMC guide thread (and browse this thread too). Read the Wiki. Look at other people's FMC solves.


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## JackJ (Sep 15, 2011)

New PB, 33 moves. I got this scramble while doing an average btw, had to FMC it. Someone really good could probably sub 25 this.

R F' L2 B' D B2 L D' R F2 B' R' L B F D2 F2 R B' L2 D' L' F R' L'

2x2: B' D2 B2 D2
2x3: R' U F' U2 F
Cross + F2L #3: U' B' U B2
F2L #4 + OLL: L U2 L F' L' F U' L2
PLL: U2 L U2 L' B L U L' U' L' B' L2


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## kinch2002 (Sep 16, 2011)

R F' L2 B' D B2 L D' R F2 B' R' L B F D2 F2 R B' L2 D' L' F R' L'

2x2x1: U R B'
Other 2x2x2: R' D2 B2 D2
2x2x3: B R'
F2L-1: U L' B L
Edges: L U' L' U B' U' B
19 moves leaves 5 cycle. Should be about 30 moves after insertions I guess. That was found pretty much linearly first go


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## okayama (Sep 16, 2011)

I found an optimal solution for 2x2x2 in Weekly competition 2011-37. 

Scramble: R2 F' U F R U2
Solution: z' y' F2 U' L' U' L U2

Of course the best time in 5 attempts.


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## Lid (Sep 19, 2011)

The scramble from "Swedish Championship 2011": B' F' R2 D2 F' D2 F' U2 F U2 L2 R B D U L F L' R2 D U (21f)

Must have been a pretty easy one since the two winners (Simon Westlund and Henrik Buus Aagaard) had 27 moves, plus after that there were three 29 move solutions.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 19, 2011)

Looking forward to Erik's result!
Hoping for a sub 30...


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## irontwig (Sep 19, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Looking forward to Erik's result!
> Hoping for a sub 30...


 
Unfortunately 30. Had 4 corners left after 18 moves but no time for decent insertions and ofc I missed the start that "everyone" found.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 19, 2011)

Lid said:


> The scramble from "Swedish Championship 2011": B' F' R2 D2 F' D2 F' U2 F U2 L2 R B D U L F L' R2 D U (21f)
> 
> Must have been a pretty easy one since the two winners (Simon Westlund and Henrik Buus Aagaard) had 27 moves, plus after that there were three 29 move solutions.



LOL scramble...
Within 3 minutes:

2 move cross
or
5 move X cross, 2 additional moves build two pairs...
Gotta look into this when I get home from work!


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## okayama (Sep 19, 2011)

Lid said:


> The scramble from "Swedish Championship 2011": B' F' R2 D2 F' D2 F' U2 F U2 L2 R B D U L F L' R2 D U (21f)
> 
> Must have been a pretty easy one since the two winners (Simon Westlund and Henrik Buus Aagaard) had 27 moves, plus after that there were three 29 move solutions.





Spoiler



My first try:

2x2x2 block: L2 B L R F'
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: L U' B' L2 U

And more:

2x2x2 block: U2 L2 B L R U F'
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: U2 R' L2 U L
All but 3 corners/edges: U' R
(or All but 3 corners: U2 F2 L F L' F U R)

Should be 26~27.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 19, 2011)

My 7 move start:


Spoiler



L' R' B R F'
U' B'
X-cross with 2 pairs could give a nice continuation...


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## okayama (Sep 19, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> My 7 move start:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Scramble: B' F' R2 D2 F' D2 F' U2 F U2 L2 R B D U L F L' R2 D U

NISS solve with Cubenovice's start

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F R' B' R L

2x2x3 block: U2 L2 U2
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 L B L B2 L B' L2
Finish F2L: B' L' B L
LL: L B L U' L' U B' L'

results in 27 moves.


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## Henrik (Sep 20, 2011)

From Swedish Championships 2011:

Scramble: B' F' R2 D2 F' D2 F' U2 F U2 L2 R B D U L F L' R2 D U (21f)

L' R' B R F' (5) x-cross
U' B' U2 R' U' R . (6(11)) 2nd pair prepared for 3rd.
B' L B2 L' (4(15)) 3rd pair 4th prepared
U' L U L' (4(19)) F2L leaving 3 corner cycle
insert at .
R D R' U2 R D' R' U2 (8 canceling into 7 moves)
Correct layer:
B (1)

So solution is:
L' R' B R F' (5) x-cross
U' B' U2 R' U' *R2* . D R' U2 R D' R' U2 (13(18)) 2nd pair prepared for 3rd.
B' L B2 L' (4(22)) 3rd pair 4th prepared
U' L U L' (4(26)) F2L done OLL skip PLL forced.
B (1(27))

Simon's solution had a different insertion but at the same place in the solution, I don't remember the commutator he used. 
The obvious 29 move solution would be to do the 3 corner cycle in the end with the common 9 move speed alg.


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## irontwig (Sep 20, 2011)

Might as well post my solution:

L' B R F' [2x2x2]
L U' B' U [Peudo 2x2x3]

Switch to inverse:

L U [2x2x3+EO]
B2 L' B2 [F2L-1]
L' B' L B L [Leaving four corners]

Which gives this skeleton:
L' B R F' L U' B' U L' B' L' B L B2 L B2 U'.L'

.=U B' U' F U B:U'*F'
:=R D' R' U2 R D R' U2 (Really stupid; *=U2 F D2 F' U2 F D2 F' cancels one more move)


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## Cubenovice (Sep 20, 2011)

Henrik said:


> From Swedish Championships 2011:
> 
> Scramble: B' F' R2 D2 F' D2 F' U2 F U2 L2 R B D U L F L' R2 D U (21f)
> L' R' B R F' (5) x-cross
> ...



Found this one too, it was really just a straight forward continuation of the X-cross + 2 pairs I already posted yesterday.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 25, 2011)

I just managed an 11 move F2L-1 with 2 oriented edges but cannot find a good ending.

Generator: F' R' F2 R2 B R' F R' D2 L F L2 D2 R U' (15f*)
Yeah, this already tells something...

Took me 21 moves for a final 32 HTM.

Looking forward to your solutions!


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## irontwig (Sep 26, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> I just managed an 11 move F2L-1 with 2 oriented edges but cannot find a good ending.
> 
> Generator: F' R' F2 R2 B R' F R' D2 L F L2 D2 R U' (15f*)
> Yeah, this already tells something...
> ...


 
R' F R F2 U' F U2
L U2 B' U' B U' L2 D F' D' L

Maybe a 2C2E swap can be inserted somewhere for a better result.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi Erik,

thx for your solution, I will have a look for a possible 2C2E insertion this evening to see if it is possible to get rid of those 3 moves "to optimal".
This is actually part of my 1 h solution for fmc.mustcube 365 (where I will submit my 32 HTM sol).
I will try a different start for the classic as I don't think "team" solves are allowed


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## whauk (Sep 28, 2011)

my solution for the weekly competition in the german forum. it's 24 moves so i thought it would be interesting to share:

scramble: D' L2 D L2 F2 U' L2 R2 U B2 L' U B2 U2 R B' U L U2 L' R'
2x2x1: U2 R2 U' B (preparing the 2x2x2)
2x2x3: F2 (in order to solve the yellow-red-green F2L pair) L2 D' R
some more blockbuilding: U2 F U F' U * L' F U' F' (leaving 3 corners)

1-move cancellation (this was the best one i could find):
* D' R2 D L D' R2 D L'

=> U2 R2 U' B F2 L2 D' R U2 F U F' U D' R2 D L D' R2 D L2 F U' F' (24 moves, found in ~30 minutes)


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## okayama (Sep 28, 2011)

whauk said:


> my solution for the weekly competition in the german forum. it's 24 moves so i thought it would be interesting to share:
> 
> scramble: D' L2 D L2 F2 U' L2 R2 U B2 L' U B2 U2 R B' U L U2 L' R'
> 2x2x1: U2 R2 U' B (preparing the 2x2x2)
> ...


 
Well done, but there's a better insertion:

_some more blockbuilding: U2 F U F' U L' (L' F R F' L F R' F') F U' F' (leaving 3 corners)_

results in 22 moves.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 28, 2011)

okayama said:


> Well done, but there's a better insertion:
> 
> _some more blockbuilding: U2 F U F' U L' (L' F R F' L F R' F') F U' F' (leaving 3 corners)_
> 
> results in 22 moves.



And this is why you should know your BAB'A' 

And offcourse props to Whauk for finding such a nice 24 mover.


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## AJ Blair (Sep 30, 2011)

Scramble: B' F2 U' B' L2 R2 F' R2 U2 D2 B U2 F2 U' F' B2 L2 F' L D L2 D2 R2 U2 F' 

Premoves: F' L' F L2 U L' U'
2x2: B2 U D' R F2
2x2x3: B' U' B2 U'
F2L: L' B' L2 B' L B L' B' L 
FINISH HIM!!!!!: R B R' B R B2 R' B'

B2 U D' R F2 B' U' B2 U' L' B' L2 B' L B L' B' L R B R' B R B2 R' B' F' L' F L2 U L' U' (33 moves)

Lucked out at the end, I had three other solutions in the mid-40's...but kept going, finished this one up at 57 minutes...


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## Cubenovice (Oct 2, 2011)

Irontwig,

would you mind posting your 11 move F2L-1 for #365?
I would like to compare to my 11 mover which I also found hard to finish.


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## irontwig (Oct 2, 2011)

Scramble: L2 R2 U D' L' D2 L2 R F L' U2 F' L U' B' U R2 B R D2 F' B L' B' U L2 R F D U2

Premove B':
D' U2 B' F2 R2 B2 D B R' B2


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## bwronski (Oct 3, 2011)

My first attempt at FMC. I got stuck at the end, and didn't finish. I'm going to try and do it over to get a different result/ finish.
Any tips are helpful.

Scramble: D B2 L' B' R U D' F U2 D R U' F' U' B' L B U B D' U' B' L F' B

Semi-Solution:F’ R2 U R2 U2 D2 L F L’ F2 L’ x2 U’ B U B’ F B U B’ R U2 R’ F’ R’ U R L’ U L U’ R’ U2 R


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## Cubenovice (Oct 3, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Scramble: L2 R2 U D' L' D2 L2 R F L' U2 F' L U' B' U R2 B R D2 F' B L' B' U L2 R F D U2
> Premove B':
> D' U2 B' F2 R2 B2 D B R' B2


Straigtforward fixing of edges gives 20 HTM for L5C, could still be 30-ish. Did you run out of time?



bwronski said:


> My first attempt at FMC. I got stuck at the end, and didn't finish. I'm going to try and do it over to get a different result/ finish.
> Any tips are helpful.
> 
> Scramble: D B2 L' B' R U D' F U2 D R U' F' U' B' L B U B D' U' B' L F' B
> ...



Nice to see you here 
Some hints:
Write down your solution in steps, this makes it easier to follow what you have been doing / what the thought process is.
Write down your solution without rotations. With rotations you may miss some cancellations.
Definitely try several options at each step of your solve: expanding blocks in different directions - various ways of inserting CE-pairs - inserting moves between steps - using mirrors, etc, etc.
Brows through this thread, AVG fewest moves tips and tricks and the weekly comp solutions to see what others are doing.
AND: forget about the 1 h time limit for now, just keep working that scramble.


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## irontwig (Oct 3, 2011)

bwronski said:


> My first attempt at FMC. I got stuck at the end, and didn't finish. I'm going to try and do it over to get a different result/ finish.
> Any tips are helpful.
> 
> Scramble: D B2 L' B' R U D' F U2 D R U' F' U' B' L B U B D' U' B' L F' B
> ...



Quick attempt with your 2x2x2 block:

F' R2 U R2 U2 F' L' B D' B' D' R' L' F L R' U2 R F' D2 F R' U2 R F' D' R (27)

F' R2 U R2 U2 [2x2x2]
F' L' B D' B' [2x2x3]
D' R' L' F L F' [Leaving two corners]
F R' U2 R F' D2 F R' U2 R F' D2 [Two corner twist]
D R [Finish]

Ralph: Yes, running out of time trying to find something for a 25-27ish solution.


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## irontwig (Oct 4, 2011)

Might as well post this from the example game thread:

Scramble:B' U' D2 F L2 R' U D' L R B L2 D' F U D F2 B U D R' F2 U2 F' R2
R B2 U B' U F U' R' L D' R' F2 U F' U F U2 F' U F' L2 B' (22) 

R B2 U B' [Square]
U F U' R' L D' R' [2x2x3+2 pairs with one inserted move turned into pseudo tripod] 
F [Pseudo F2L]
F U F' U F U2 F' U [LL]
F' L2 B' [Undo pseudoness]

Ties my pb, though I'm pretty sure 25 move scrambles generate (somewhat) easier scrambles than random state used by Cube Explorer and WCA or Fredlund's 30 move scrambles.


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## AJ Blair (Oct 6, 2011)

Scramble: B F' L F2 B2 L' F2 L R' F D2 R U2 D' L' B' D F' L2 B2 D2 U' L F2 D2

I need help/advice here...I can't find anything pretty after the 2x2x3

2x2x2: R' U2 B' L D' L2
2x2x3: F' R' F

Any help in where to go from here would be wonderful!


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## irontwig (Oct 6, 2011)

AJ Blair said:


> Scramble: B F' L F2 B2 L' F2 L R' F D2 R U2 D' L' B' D F' L2 B2 D2 U' L F2 D2
> 
> I need help/advice here...I can't find anything pretty after the 2x2x3
> 
> ...


 
R' U2 B' L D' L B L F' L' B' L R' F2 R2 F' U2 R F R' F' U' R' U R U2 (26)

R' U2 B' L D' L2 F'.R' F [Your 2x2x3]
F R2 F' U [Pseudo F2L]
U R F R' F' U' R' [LLEF+1]
U R U2 [Undo pseudoness]

Insert at dot: F L' B L F' L' B' L (Three moves cancel)


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## JackJ (Oct 8, 2011)

R2 D2 F2 D' R' F2 U' B' L' F R2 B' F' L2 U2 L' D' B'

B' D' R' F2 R' 2x2x3 or B' D' R' F2 R2 F' R 2x2x3 + Bad Edges

Can't seem to find anything that nice after that. Anyone?


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## irontwig (Oct 8, 2011)

JackJ said:


> R2 D2 F2 D' R' F2 U' B' L' F R2 B' F' L2 U2 L' D' B'
> 
> B' D' R' F2 R' 2x2x3 or B' D' R' F2 R2 F' R 2x2x3 + Bad Edges
> 
> Can't seem to find anything that nice after that. Anyone?


 
B' D' R' F2 R' U2 R D2 R' U R D2 R2 F' R F2 U' L F2 L' F L F2 L' F (25)

B' D' R' F2 R' [2x2x3]
U'.R' F' R F2 U' [F2L-1]
L F2 L' F L F2 L' F [Leaving three corners]

Insert at dot: U' R D2 R' U R D2 R' (Two moves cancel)


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## Brest (Oct 9, 2011)

JackJ said:


> R2 D2 F2 D' R' F2 U' B' L' F R2 B' F' L2 U2 L' D' B'
> 
> B' D' R' F2 R' 2x2x3 or B' D' R' F2 R2 F' R 2x2x3 + Bad Edges
> 
> Can't seem to find anything that nice after that. Anyone?



B' D' R' F2 R2 F' R // your 2x2x3 + Bad Edges
U F // 1x2x2
U' F' U' // 1x2x2
F2 U' // leave 4 corners

14htm with (hopefully) two 8 move commutators is 30htm minus cancellations.
/or just use the 'twigs...


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## Mirek (Oct 13, 2011)

guusrs said:


> What a suprise Mirek! And with a nice 21-move solution!
> I found a similar F2L, same corners but different edges, and could't solve this LL in 13 moves or less.


 
Hi cubers, who do not care about speed anymore!

I am glad I found my old password to this forum. Thank you for welcoming me back. I was hesitating a while for two reasons. First, I thought I've seen all possible scrambled cubes already. But it turns out I don't remember all of them. Second, I may not be the best anymore after Guus improved a lot and big new names like Tomoaki, Joan-Carles, or Bruce, who learned all my tricks and more rule the FMC competitions. I want to mention FMC #356 where Tomoaki reminded me my old years with his insertion of (D F2 U' L U B') D (B U' L' U F2 D') leading to impressive 20-move solution. Great job, Tomoaki! 
This week you'll see a nice linear solve from me (#367).


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## irontwig (Oct 13, 2011)

Mirek said:


> Hi cubers, who do not care about speed anymore!
> 
> I am glad I found my old password to this forum. Thank you for welcoming me back. I was hesitating a while for two reasons. First, I thought I've seen all possible scrambled cubes already. But it turns out I don't remember all of them. Second, I may not be the best anymore after Guus improved a lot and big new names like Tomoaki, Joan-Carles, or Bruce, who learned all my tricks and more rule the FMC competitions. I want to mention FMC #356 where Tomoaki reminded me my old years with his insertion of (D F2 U' L U B') D (B U' L' U F2 D') leading to impressive 20-move solution. Great job, Tomoaki!
> This week you'll see a nice linear solve from me (#367).



Nice to see you around. I would really like to see what you can do the with the current scramble for the weekly forum competition, as I failed to find anything good and thus DNF'd.


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## Mirek (Oct 15, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Nice to see you around. I would really like to see what you can do the with the current scramble for the weekly forum competition, as I failed to find anything good and thus DNF'd.


 
This is a tough one. I tried what guys call NISS (Normal-Inverse-Scramble-Switch). 
After U D R' switch to inverse. Denoting the scrambling sequence s, you do R D' U' s' on a solved cube before continuing.
D' R2 suggesting a premove [D']to get 2x2x2 block, F L' F D' (U)L' D. The move (U) I inserted to ge a better outcome. We have a 2x2x3 block and two corner-edge pairs. U' L' having f2l without one corner in total of 15 moves and a nice last layer. 

You can switch from inverse to normal scramble now: 
(L U D' L U' D F' L F' R2 D) s (U D R'), postpone [D] till the end and solve edges R' U' F R' F' R U R U' D leaving corner 3-cycle. Before finding a good insertion, we better rearrange what we've done so far:
s (U D R')(R' *U' F R' F' R U R U' D)(L U D' L U' D F' L F' R2 D) Now, I place numbered stickers on the 3 corner cubies and watch how they move when undoing move by move, i.e. performing slowly D' R2 F L' F D'... and found an insertion at * (D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F). This was one of the worst cases of an insertion. So many slice turns! I wish I had an edge 3-cycle to look for instead. My final solution is U D R2 D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F U' F R' F' R U R U' D L U D' L U' D F' L F' R2 D (31). BTW, it contains no B move.
Switching between normal and inverse scramble requires some practice, otherwise one can waste a lot of time due mistakes in scrambling (which happened to me this time and took me more than an hour :-().


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## guusrs (Oct 15, 2011)

I all,

Here's the WC Bangkok 2011 scramble:

R2 F D2 L F' U2 F2 U' L' B' L F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 R2 D2

What can you do with it?

@Mirek: look what I did for weekly competition 2011-41 (-;

Guus


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## Mirek (Oct 16, 2011)

guusrs said:


> I all,
> 
> Here's the WC Bangkok 2011 scramble:
> 
> ...


 

Nice. You found 23 moves + corner 3-cycle. The same as I did but I had bad luck with insertions.

Look at my 24-move FMC #367 
http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=367&format=classic&metric=htm

For the WC Bangkok 2011 scramble I have f2l in 17 moves so far.
U' L2 B' L R' B R2 D R' F R2 F U' B' F [F' B2]___(17) ?


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## Attila (Oct 16, 2011)

@ Guus
I tried to continue your corners-first start, it was very difficult to find this 30 moves solution:
Scramble: D' F2 U' B2 U R2 U F2 D' B' U2 D R U2 B' U2 D' B2 L D F' D U' B2 D2 F2 B U2 R2 B'
My solution: BLR’FLU’D’BRB2U2BD’RL’FU2D’F’UD’L’DU’F2U’D’R2DU’
explanation:
B * U L B' F' D R your start,
insertion: M’
i wrote this without cube rotation:
BLR’FLU’D’BR 8 corners and 5 edges,
B2U2BD’RL’F more an edge, and the white/yellow centers reset,
U2D’F’UD’L’DU’F2U’D’R2DU’ L6E.


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## cuBerBruce (Oct 16, 2011)

guusrs said:


> I all,
> 
> Here's the WC Bangkok 2011 scramble:
> 
> R2 F D2 L F' U2 F2 U' L' B' L F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 R2 D2



Here is my attempt at the WC scramble:

L U' L D L' U L D F2 R2 U' R' F2 D F2 L' F' L D' B D B' L2 D L2 D' (26)

Argh! I could have been world champion!

This is my best 1-hour FM solve ever.

Explanation:
2x2x2: L2 . D2 F2 R2 U' R' (6/6)
Siamese 2x2x2's: F2 D F2 L' F' (5/11)
All but 3 corners: L (D' B D B') L2 (D L2 D') (9/20)
Insert at ".": L' U' L D L' U L D' (2 moves cancel)


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## Mirek (Oct 17, 2011)

Attila said:


> @ Guus
> I tried to continue your corners-first start, it was very difficult to find this 30 moves solution:
> Scramble: D' F2 U' B2 U R2 U F2 D' B' U2 D R U2 B' U2 D' B2 L D F' D U' B2 D2 F2 B U2 R2 B'
> My solution: BLR’FLU’D’BRB2U2BD’RL’FU2D’F’UD’L’DU’F2U’D’R2DU’
> ...


 

I did not try, thinking it's hopeless. Maybe Gilles Roux could find something. 
Then I asked Cube Explorer what the shortest solution (after your B U L B' F' D R D2) is and it is surprisingly an understandable one, without making any mess on the cube. 
R' D B' R' D B R2 D2 R' U' L U B' R' D2 (15f)


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## Sebastien (Oct 18, 2011)

My winning solution from WC2011:

Scramble: R2 F D2 L F' U2 F2 U' L' B' L F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 R2 D2

After a few minutes I found the following block:

2x2x2: R2 U2 B2 U' R'
2x2x3: F' L' B D B'

I spent the next 20 minutes NISSing this and other beginnings I had found, then went back ooking to the block again and what what I had at first not seen:

3 corners+1 twisted: D R F2 R' D F' R F R' D'

with a setup before sledgehammer it gives a pure 3-cycle: D R F2 R' D *L'* F' R F R' *L* D'

The corners were placed rather bad going through my partial solution. At least I was able to cancel 2 moves at 2 spots:

3-cycle: R2 U2 B2 U' R' F' L' B D B' . D R F2 R' D L' F' R F R' : L D'

. = F2 D B D' F2 D B' D'
: = B2 L F L' B2 L F' L'

I randomly chose the second one.

Solution: R2 U2 B2 U' R' F' L' B D B' D R F2 R' D L' F' R F R' B2 L F L' B2 L F' D'

28 moves


After all a very standard solution. I'm so happy that this was enough to win.


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## Cubenovice (Oct 18, 2011)

Congratulations!

You already had the most sub 30 solves so the title of World Champion is truly deserved.

Nice to see that the WC solution has a set up move for inserting the last pair to improve the LL.
I did the same thing (in my otherwise crap) solution for weekly 41 so now I can be proud by proxy


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## Yes We Can! (Oct 18, 2011)

My solution (37 moves)
*Scramble:* R2 F D2 L F' U2 F2 U' L' B' L F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 R2 D2
*Solve:*
D' L F2 U2 F' z2 L2 F2 L' F' L'
F B R F' x' y' U' R U R U' R U2 R' U R
U' y' F2 D' L U' L U L' D F2 R U' R'


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## peterbone (Oct 18, 2011)

I don't know much about FMC so this is probably a stupid question. Sebastien, your solution is longer than the scramble. Surely reversing the scramble would be shorter. I'm guessing you know what the scramble is since you must have to do it several times. Is there a rule against this? How would they know if you started with the reverse scramble and then changed it a bit?


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## irontwig (Oct 18, 2011)

peterbone said:


> I don't know much about FMC so this is probably a stupid question. Sebastien, your solution is longer than the scramble. Surely reversing the scramble would be shorter. I'm guessing you know what the scramble is since you must have to do it several times. Is there a rule against this? How would they know if you started with the reverse scramble and then changed it a bit?


 
http://worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#fewestmovessolving


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## marco.garsed (Oct 18, 2011)

Sébastien_Auroux said:


> My winning solution from WC2011:
> 
> Scramble: R2 F D2 L F' U2 F2 U' L' B' L F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 R2 D2
> 
> ...


 
CONGRATS!!!


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## Attila (Oct 18, 2011)

Congratulations, Sébastien! I wish you much more sub 30


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## guusrs (Oct 19, 2011)

guusrs said:


> I all,
> 
> Here's the WC Bangkok 2011 scramble:
> 
> ...



Of course I tried it myself. pretty nasty scramble for me!
I got very promising starts I had to work out, but oops time was up.
I was left with a 33-move (10min) backup solve....

Congratz to all the sub-30 solvers!

@Cuberbruce: be there next time!


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## asiahyoo1997 (Oct 19, 2011)

6minutes
R2 F D2 L F' U2 F2 U' L' B' L F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 R2 D2
WC2011
I very hurry.
I did 38moves
U F' R2 D' R D'
B' U' B2 U B' U' 
F U F'
R' U R F' U' F
U2 R' U' R
U' R' U2 L U' R U2 L' U L U2 L' U


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## cuBerBruce (Oct 19, 2011)

guusrs said:


> Congratz to all the sub-30 solvers!
> 
> @Cuberbruce: be there next time!


 
Well, I figured it would require at least a sub-30 solve to win, and not ever having a sub-30 solve within a 1-hour time limit, I didn't think my chances of winning justified such a trip. And my 26-move solve involved some luck, I would have to say. In trying to build a square in the last layer from a CE pair, and trying an "inefficient" alternative from the most obvious ways of doing it, I stumbled upon what I view as a 5-piece skip.

I spent about the first 35 minutes trying to work with either of the two 1-move CE pair cases. Frustrated by failing to come up with any sort of good skeleton this way, I decided to look at building a different 2x2x2. By 40 minutes, I had found a 28-move solution. In the last 20 minutes, I only needed to find an insertion with one move cancelling to get under 28. I note that the 2x2x2 I started with is the same as Sebastien's, except Sebastien built it in 5 moves instead of 6.

I congratulate Sebastien on his win.


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## kinch2002 (Oct 20, 2011)

My 29 move solution for =2nd place at WC2011. My solution is a fair bit more complicated that Sébastien's so apologise in advance if you are trying to 'reconstruct' it yourself!

Scramble: R2 F D2 L F' U2 F2 U' L' B' L F2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 R2 D2

I found this 2x2x2: F2 R' F' D L D (6)
Insert a few moves to it to make a pseudo 2x2x3: F2 R' F' D L B U' B D L' (10)
Switch to inverse scramble (premoves L D' B' U B' L' D' F R F2): L2 B' L B' U2 B2 U2 B U (19)
I actually found that inverse part by using another premove U (which can be seen at the end there)
So, now I have 4 corners left, in 2+2 but misoriented states :/
I've have little experience in doing 4 corner insertions, so it probably wasn't the optimal ones, but here they are:
Solution so far: F2 R' F' * D L . B U' B D L' U' B' U2 B2 U2 B L' B L2 (19)
Insert F D' B' D F' D' B D at *
Insert L' F2 L B' L' F2 L B at .
Both cancel 3 moves to give: F2 R' D' B' D F' D' B D2 F2 L B' L' F2 L B2 U' B D L' U' B' U2 B2 U2 B L' B L2 (29)

Congrats to my fellow medalists Sébastien and Milán.
There's always a risk that with so many people, the podium turns into a lottery in which someone random flukes a win, but thankfully our past records show that wasn't the case this time


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## Jakube (Oct 20, 2011)

My first FMC since months and PB: 33 HTM

Scramble from Weekly Challenge: R2 U2 B F2 U2 F2 L' D R' D' R' B' U' R F U2 L' U2



Spoiler



Start on inverse scramble: 
2x2x2: L' B' U F' U2 (5/5)

Amply on the normal scramble with Premoves: U2 F U' B L:
2x2x3: R' D R2 D2 R D (6/11)
Found premove F (1/12)

Start with normal scramble with premoves F U2 F U' B L than do R' D R2 D2 R D
F2L: R F R2 D' F2 D F D R' D' (10/22)
OLL: D R D' R' B' D' F D F' B (10/32)
Than I experimented a bit with different Jb-Perms and used the one, which is just mirrowed to my Ja, so that it cancles some moves. 
PLL: B R' F R2 B' R B R2 B' F' (10/42)
Undo premoves: F U2 F U' B L

Totally solution: R' D R2 D2 R D R F R2 D' F2 D F *D R' D' D R D'* R' B' D' F D F' *B B* R' F R2 B' R B R2 B' *F' F* U2 F U' B L (-9/33)
After cancellation: R' D R2 D2 R D R F R2 D' F2 D F R' B' D' F D F' B2 R' F R2 B' R B R2 B' U2 F U' B L (33 HTM)


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## Cubenovice (Oct 20, 2011)

Jakube said:


> My first FMC since months and PB: 33 HTM
> 
> Scramble from Weekly Challenge: R2 U2 B F2 U2 F2 L' D R' D' R' B' U' R F U2 L' U2



Nice one but please use spoiler tags when discussing solutions for an ongoing competition


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## Jakube (Oct 20, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Nice one but please use spoiler tags when discussing solutions for an ongoing competition


 
O.k. I´ll edit it.


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## Zane_C (Oct 23, 2011)

Scramble: D' F U F2 R2 U2 R' B2 F2 D F' L2 F' L' U F' D' U' B2 D B2 L2 R' D2 U' 

Incomplete solution: 
2x2x2 block: x' U2 F L2 D2
2x2x3 block: R2 F2 U' F R'

Can someone please continue on from this. I spent a while trying to efficiently extend the 2x2x3 block and make a nice skeleton. 
I'm having a lot of trouble progressing from the 2x2x3 block in all my FMC attempts. Thanks.


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## kinch2002 (Oct 23, 2011)

Firstly, try not to do rotations. You'll give yourself problems if you try to do insertions/NISS and things like that.
After 2x2x3 I look at EO. You should see that 4 edges aren't oriented (pretty standard). i.e. they can't go into place without moving parts of the 2x2x3 block. So that's the BR, WG, OB and WO edges. I look at the 3 movers that orient 2 of the edges first. So, if you're in standard WG scrambling orientation, L' B L or L' B' L or L U' L' would orient 2 of those edges. Then I'd see whether any blocks/pairs are created by doing those moves, and work with those. Or try orienting the last 2 edges in different ways too.

EDIT: Also, pseudo blocks and NISS give you a lot more options here too. But I'm not going to type an explanation of those out right now - they're probably mentioned somewhere else in this thread


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## Zane_C (Oct 23, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, I finished the solution. 
I got rid of the rotation at the start. Regardless of the high move count, I'm happy to have incorporated some FMC techniques. 
After I look at more FMC solutions in this thread and the weekly comp I should be able to set out my solutions neater.

Scramble: D' F U F2 R2 U2 R' B2 F2 D F' L2 F' L' U F' D' U' B2 D B2 L2 R' D2 U' 

2x2x2 block: B2 U L2 F2
2x2x3 block: R2 U2 B' U *R'* * Insert [*R* F2 R', B'] - cancels to R2 U2 B' U [F2 R' B' R F2 R' B] 

Orient 2 edges: L' B' L

Add 2x2 block: F R' U R U' F' *U*

Orient+permute remaining edges: *U* B' U' L' B' L B2 U B' U'

Solve remaining corners: 
[L', U R' U']

= 42 moves STM, that was fun.


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## kinch2002 (Oct 23, 2011)

A couple of thoughts I just had using your 2x2x3
Scramble: D' F U F2 R2 U2 R' B2 F2 D F' L2 F' L' U F' D' U' B2 D B2 L2 R' D2 U' 
2x2x3 block: B2 U L2 F2 R2 U2 B' U R' (9)

*1.* Same EO: L' B' L
Same block using less moves: B2 U L U' L'
Cancels into awesome last pair case: L' B L' B' L2 (also cancels into OLL if you want to try noob LL)
Haven't really tried to use this for a full solution. OLL PLL gives like 38 though

*2.* Focus on making a block and hope to do some EO during it: U B' R B' R' U B2 U2 (note the R B' R' orients 2 bad edges)
Another block: B L' B2 L
Insert last pair of yellow F2L with sledgehammer to orient edges: U R B' R' B U'
3 corners left with 27 moves. Note the GRW block eventually becomes part of the last layer and helps to force 3 corners left. Should be 33/34 moves


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## Zane_C (Oct 29, 2011)

I have a question on insertions. When you're left with some corners after the 'skeleton', what's the common way to find commutators that can be inserted to cancel moves?

The only way I know is: 
- Stick tape on the stickers and indicate which corners need to go where.
- Then start solving from the very start one move at a time. After each turn, analyse the new corner cycles, looking for cancellations. 

For all I know this is the only way to go about it, I have absolutely no clue. Thanks.


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## guusrs (Oct 29, 2011)

Zane_C said:


> I have a question on insertions. When you're left with some corners after the 'skeleton', what's the common way to find commutators that can be inserted to cancel moves?
> 
> The only way I know is:
> - Stick tape on the stickers and indicate which corners need to go where.
> ...


 
Or revert your solution while searching for indertions. Saves time (no scrambling) but needs some practice


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## irontwig (Oct 29, 2011)

Zane_C said:


> I have a question on insertions. When you're left with some corners after the 'skeleton', what's the common way to find commutators that can be inserted to cancel moves?
> 
> The only way I know is:
> - Stick tape on the stickers and indicate which corners need to go where.
> ...



I don't know what to say; that's it.


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## Zane_C (Oct 29, 2011)

Thanks guys, good to know.

Finally, something I'm happy with, despite a bit of luck.
Took about 90 minutes, spent the majority of time getting the insertions right. I kept on messing them up, because I assumed they behaved the same way as BLD cycles...

Scramble: U L' U2 R F2 B2 D2 F' D F' D' R2 U2 R' D' F' L' R2 U' D R2 L2 F R F'
Solution: R D B D' F2 D B' D' *F2 F2* U' B D' F2 *B B* L' F2 L B' L' F2 *L L2* B U2 B2 L U' B' L' B D L D' = 31 moves

2x2x2: R . F2 U' B D' F2 (5)
F2L-1: B : L2 B U2 B2 L U' (7/13)

Orient+permute edges: B' L' B D L D' (6/19)

Insert at dot: [D B D' F2 D B' D' F2] 
Insert at colon: [B L' F2 L B' L' F2 L]

_Comment: I tried to set it out neat. I was only expanding to a 2x2x3 block (green/red/white/yellow), the red/blue/white block was a complete accident._

*Back up:*
2x2x2: R F2 U' B D' F2 (6)
2x2x3: B L2 B U2 B2 L U' (7/13)

Orient+permute edges: B' L' B D L D' (6/19)

Last 4 corners: 
U B U' F U B' U' F' (8/27)
B2 R F' R' B2 R F R' (8/35)

Constructive criticism is always welcome.


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## Brest (Oct 29, 2011)

I really like the F2L-1, very nicely built. :tu

I noticed that during the start of your L5E that the last F2L pair connected. What I usually do in these cases is to play around with different insertions to see what kind of LL is left. In this case, a standard F2L insertion leave a SuneLL for a PLL skip!

Scramble: U L' U2 R F2 B2 D2 F' D F' D' R2 U2 R' D' F' L' R2 U' D R2 L2 F R F'

R F2 U' B D' F2 // 2x2x2
B L2 B U2 B2 L U' // F2L-1
B' L' B L2 D L' D' // F2L
F' L2 F L F' L F // SuneLL

Although a skip is not common, it is often better to spend the time looking for L3C rather than L4C / L5C. Insertions can take a lot of time to execute, so looking for one is better than looking for two.


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## Zane_C (Oct 29, 2011)

Woah! I'll make certain to experiment with the LL next time. Thanks.

EDIT: Also, do most FMC solvers keep green on front and white on top while *solving*?
The other option is to perform rotations, just making sure to write the solution with respect to W/G.


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## irontwig (Oct 29, 2011)

You can rotate at much as you want; you just write down F when you turn the green side rather than the front one.


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## cubernya (Oct 29, 2011)

You can write down rotations. As long as it's within the limit of the competition (written # of moves) then it makes no difference (counts as 0 moves)


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## irontwig (Oct 29, 2011)

theZcuber said:


> You can write down rotations. As long as it's within the limit of the competition (written # of moves) then it makes no difference (counts as 0 moves)


 
You can, but it's a stupid idea.


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## cubernya (Oct 29, 2011)

I personally find it easier to just write them down. Then I don't have to perform an OLL after x z2


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## Zane_C (Oct 30, 2011)

Just did weekly comp 44 FMC:

*FMC* = *DNF*


Spoiler



Nooooooo! Ran out of time and DNF'd my back up solution by a U2. :fp
If only I had a couple more minutes I would've finished my final solution. I couldn't find any good skeletons so I did LL for both solutions.


Scramble: D F' L' B' L2 D2 U F' D B2 U2 B2 F' R' B2 U2 B2 U'
Final solution (after exceeded 60 minutes): L' D' L2 U2 L2 F2 U2 B' R B F' U' R F U2 F2 U' R' F *R R* U R' F' U2 F2 R' F' R L F' L' F U F U' F' U2 = 37 moves

2x2x2: L' D' L2 U2 L2
2x2x3: F2 U2 B' R B F' U' R
F2l-1: F U2 F2 U' R' F R
Solve 1x2x2 block+finish F2L: R U R' F' U2 F2 R' F' R
LL: L F' L' F U F U' F' U2

*Fail back up:*
Scramble: D F' L' B' L2 D2 U F' D B2 U2 B2 F' R' B2 U2 B2 U' 
Solution: L' D' L2 U2 L2 F2 U2 B' R B F' U' R F U2 F2 U' R' F R U R U' R' U F' U *F F* R2 B' R' B R' F' B2 U R L' B2 L R' U B2 *U* = 44 moves...

2x2x2: L' D' L2 U2 L2
2x2x3: F2 U2 B' R B F' U' R 
F2l-1: F U2 F2 U' R' F R 
Finish F2L: U R U' R' U F' U F
OLL: F R2 B' R' B R' F' 
PLL: B2 U R L' B2 L R' U B2 U


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## Cubenovice (Oct 30, 2011)

theZcuber said:


> You can write down rotations. As long as it's within the limit of the competition (written # of moves) then it makes no difference (counts as 0 moves)



Yesterday at the Dutch open I have seen a great example of why not to do this.
One CFOP solve of 60+ could hqve been a 50-something solve because of missed cancellations due to rotations and AUF's in the solve.

It is really not hard to just write the correct faces during your solve.
In the std WCA orientation two faces even begin with the correct letter: Back and Red


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## kinch2002 (Oct 30, 2011)

Zane_C said:


> Also, do most FMC solvers keep green on front and white on top while *solving*?
> The other option is to perform rotations, just making sure to write the solution with respect to W/G.





irontwig said:


> You can rotate at much as you want; you just write down F when you turn the green side rather than the front one.


That's pretty much what I do. I rotate all the time, because it's almost impossible to see what's going on without doing so. But make sure I write down the 'correct' faces. You could do FMC in your bld orientation, because then you'll already know which colour corresponds to which face.


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## Zane_C (Oct 30, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> That's pretty much what I do. I rotate all the time, because it's almost impossible to see what's going on without doing so. But make sure I write down the 'correct' faces. You could do FMC in your bld orientation, because then you'll already know which colour corresponds to which face.


Solving in BLD orientation seems nice, but I've decided to solve in any orientation. It's pretty easy since you just need to know that red=R, orange=L, yellow=D... etc 
Also, I no longer restrict myself to building F2L-1 on only the green or blue face.


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## Attila (Oct 31, 2011)

I found this solution for Dutch Open’s FMC scramble (about 2 hours) :
Scramble: D2 B D2 B F' U2 L R'U B U R U2 B2 D L' F2 D2 L
Solution:B2 F’ L2 D’ R L’ F D2 U2 L2 B F’ U F B’ R U L U2 L R F2 U D R ( 25 moves)
Explanation:
Simply inverse solution, without premoves and NISS.
R’ D’ U’ F2 R’ L’ U2 L’ all corners – 2 moves, and 3 edges,
U’ R’ B F’ U’ F B’ L2 more 3 edges, 
U2 D2 F’ L R’ D L2 F B2 L6E.


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## irontwig (Nov 3, 2011)

An important skill when using NISS is being able to perform the inverse scramble accurately and fast, so decided to do a average of 12; these were my 12 first times:

11.22, 10.04, 10.90, (9.54), 10.11, (DNF), 10.35, 11.16, 12.52, 10.41, 10.11, 10.46 = 10.73

This is several seconds faster than my PB average (15.05). So, what about you other NISS users?


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 3, 2011)

irontwig said:


> An important skill when using NISS is being able to perform the inverse scramble accurately and fast, so decided to do a average of 12; these were my 12 first times:
> 
> 11.22, 10.04, 10.90, (9.54), 10.11, (DNF), 10.35, 11.16, 12.52, 10.41, 10.11, 10.46 = 10.73
> 
> This is several seconds faster than my PB average (15.05). So, what about you other NISS users?



Mine:
11.69, (9.37), 11.41, (DNF), 10.24, 12.33, 11.27, 12.02, 10.43, 10.59, 11.65, 12.35 = 11.40

Considering my regular 3x3x3 speed, I'd say that's pretty good. Basically there's a very small difference for me between applying a regular and an inverse scramble - no more than a couple of seconds. But then, in addition to fewest moves, I also unscramble my cubes every week for "match the scramble" by doing the inverse scramble. I figure that:
a. it's faster that way, and
b. it's good practice for NISS.


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## DavidWoner (Nov 3, 2011)

irontwig said:


> An important skill when using NISS is being able to perform the inverse scramble accurately and fast, so decided to do a average of 12; these were my 12 first times:
> 
> 11.22, 10.04, 10.90, (9.54), 10.11, (DNF), 10.35, 11.16, 12.52, 10.41, 10.11, 10.46 = 10.73
> 
> This is several seconds faster than my PB average (15.05). So, what about you other NISS users?


 
What kind of scrambles did you use?


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## kinch2002 (Nov 3, 2011)

Zane_C said:


> Solving in BLD orientation seems nice, but I've decided to solve in any orientation. It's pretty easy since you just need to know that red=R, orange=L, yellow=D... etc
> Also, I no longer restrict myself to building F2L-1 on only the green or blue face.



I'm very late in replying to this, but meh. Rather than suggesting you shouldn't rotate at all, I meant that you could scramble in bld orientation so you don't even have to 'learn' that new red=R, orange=L thing. And then rotate lots while solving. And yay you're being CN at FMC - good choice


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## irontwig (Nov 3, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> What kind of scrambles did you use?


 
25 random moves.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 3, 2011)

Inverse: 8.21, 8.16, 7.62, 8.22, 8.27, (8.93), 8.10, 8.53, 8.78, 8.29, 7.78, (7.32) = *8.19*
Normal: (6.72), 7.22, 7.49, 9.16, 7.73, 8.50, 8.28, 8.35, 7.03, (DNF), 7.42, 8.29 = *7.95*
Ratio = 1.03

25 random moves


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## guusrs (Nov 3, 2011)

I first write down the inversed scramble before I use it.
It lowers my failure rate substantly


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## Kryptonite (Nov 7, 2011)

Hey guys! Finally back into FMC (it's been nearly 8 months...). I DNF'd last week cause I only caught the end, but I got a solution submitted for this week, hurrah!

Also, I did irontwig's test... Just to warn you guys, I have no speed background, and the ONLY algorithms I know are the commutators I've done over and over. The first solve method I learned, believe it or not, was human thistlewaite.

(DNF), 37.79, 31.57, (30.01), 34.58, (DNF), 30.89, 31.56, 31.58, (DNF), 36.14, 30.21 =32.70

Now the real kicker.... the times to solve the cube from my DNF were about 4 minutes each :0 (4:24.79 and 3:57.25). Though one of them left a simple 7f* that I was able to figure out in about a minute (didn't time it).

Apparently I'm going to need to learn to speed solve before I ever go for a 1-hour...


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## irontwig (Nov 7, 2011)

Even if you'r not too into speed just random block building and then solving the rest with comms seems like it should take way less 4 minutes.


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## Erik (Nov 7, 2011)

My 29 move solution at Cachan open 2011:

Scramble: U2 L' U2 L' R' B2 F2 L' D2 U L2 B R D' B R B2 D2 U F2 R' (21)
Inverse scramble: R F2 U' D2 B2 R' B' D R' B' L2 U' D2 L F2 B2 R L U2 L U2 

It was hard to find something matching instantly, so I decided to try something I never tried before: orienting all edges first (ZZ).
D2 R F orients all edges nicely though I couldnt find anything nice after this. Using this as premoves (F' R' D2) on the inverse scramble got me this:

Pre: F' R' D2
2x2x2 block: U2 L' U' L
2 more 1x2x2 blocks: R U R2 U2 
All edges: R2 D' R' D R2 F' R' D2 leaving 5 corners.

I decided to first invert this so I have 5 corners left on the normal scramble to avoid time pressure of inverting the whole solution at the end.
Skeleton:
D2 R F . R2 D' R D R2 U2 R2 U' R' L' U L U2 (16) after 16 minutes.

After 40 minutes I found this at the . F' L2 F R' F' L2 F R which cancels nicely, leaving 3 corners after 21 moves.
Stupidly I didn't find anything for the last 3 corners (FAIL) and had to solve them with a stupid niklas....... -.-

Final solution:
D2 R L2 F R' F' L2 F R' D' R D R2 U2 R2 U' R' L' U L U2 ... B L' F' L B' L' F L (29) sub-30, but it could've probably at least be a 26 when I wouldn't have failed so much at the last 3 corners.


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## Kryptonite (Nov 7, 2011)

Haha, don't get me wrong, I know my time is pretty atrocious. I've just never even thought about going faster, and I had no idea I was THAT slow. For the most part though, I just don't do normal solving. I pretty much only do FM attempts and Backtracking.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 7, 2011)

Kryptonite: with minimal study / practice of F2L with 4 look last layer you should be able to get your solves below the 60 second mark.
A good place to start is Badmephisto’s site and youtube channel with very good explanation of F2L and LL methods.

I am also a slow solver, my average is around 40s and like you I do not practice “normal” solving.
But having some knowledge of CFOP and algs allows me to solve on “auto-pilot” and keep focus on the FMC scramble at hand.

Nice to see another Human Thistlethwaite solver!
I used it for FMC for a while just to find the method’s potential: typically low 40’s, some sub 40’s with best results being 35 and 36 HTM

No scrambling times yet, currently at work so cannot cube…


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## Kryptonite (Nov 8, 2011)

Yeah, Thistlethwaite is really interesting! I've never actually used it in an FMC, because it seemed like other mothods just had more going for them, but it's a fun exercise. It used to be my primary method of solving when I botched a scramble or move set along the way. I figured it would be pretty hard to achieve a sub-30 though.


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## JasonK (Nov 8, 2011)

Kryptonite said:


> Yeah, Thistlethwaite is really interesting! I've never actually used it in an FMC, because it seemed like other mothods just had more going for them, but it's a fun exercise. It used to be my primary method of solving when I botched a scramble or move set along the way. I figured it would be pretty hard to achieve a sub-30 though.



Thom Barlow (Kirjava) has got sub-20 with it  Go to 7:13 for Thistlethwaite.


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## Kryptonite (Nov 8, 2011)

Impressive. Though, I meant sub-30 moves, not seconds


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## JasonK (Nov 8, 2011)

Kryptonite said:


> Impressive. Though, I meant sub-30 moves, not seconds


 That would make sense, considering this is an FMC thread... My bad :fp


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## Cubenovice (Nov 8, 2011)

Question about solving corner 5-cycles via insertions.

I was under the impression that the choice of your first 3-cycle influences the possible insertions for the remaining 3-cycle.
Now for fmc.mustcube 370 I got to 5C after 18 HTM, I sticker them 12345.

I find several 3-cycles that cancel 2 moves:
145 leaving 123
345 leaving 125
123 leaving 345
234 leaving 145

I checked all four of the resulting 24 HTM L3C skeletons and in all of these I cannot do better than 2 moves cancel for a final result of 30 HTM

Is this just coincidence or is there some cube law preventing me from finding anything better for this 5-cycle?


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## Julian (Nov 8, 2011)

L2 U' F2 R' D' B R2 B D2 L2 B' R2 F U B U2 L2 B' R' B2 R U D B' D'

Got this scramble for speed yesterday. Decided to try FMC, got this in ~30 mins with no notes.

D' L B L' // 2x2x2 + 2x2x1 + CE pair
R' D F D R F2 R2 // F2L-1
D R D R' D2 R D2 R' // F2L
R' D' B D R D' R' B' R // OLL

Final solution (27 HTM): D' L B L' R' D F D R F2 R2 D R D R' D2 R D2 R2 D' B D R D' R' B' R

I was just about to start looking for insertions, when I found the PLL skip.


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## Kryptonite (Nov 8, 2011)

@WTF2L Lol, np man, realistically sub-30 in the cube community usually doesn't mean moves. And the video was awesome anyway! haha. 



Cubenovice said:


> I was under the impression that the choice of your first 3-cycle influences the possible insertions for the remaining 3-cycle.



This is true, and you can show it with cycle theory. Your goal is to cycle (12345), which can say be made up of (125)(534):
1 -> 2, 
2 -> 5 -> 3
3 -> 4
4 -> 5
5 -> 1

However, you can't change the order, beacuse (534)(125) =/= (12345):
1 -> 2
2 -> 5
5 -> 3
3 -> 4
4 -> 5 -> 1
so (534)(125) = (12534)

We can use cycle notation, however, to find what we do need if we want (125) to be the second insertion.
X(125) = (12345)
X(125)(521) = (12345)(521) [Notice, (521) MUST be on the same side on both sides of the equation!]
X(1)(2)(5) = (1)(234)(5)
X = (234)

To find optimal insertions you must find ALL (123), (234), (345), (451), (512) cycles, then use combine accordingly to cancel the most moves. You may find it's better to use two good insertions (say both cancel two) than your best insertion (say once cancels three, but it's proper pairs don't give cancellations), or vice versa.

This also means that a 5C is five times as complex as a 3C.


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## Julian (Nov 8, 2011)

Kryptonite said:


> This also means that a 5C is times as complex as a 3C.


How many times?


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## Kryptonite (Nov 8, 2011)

Whoops, five times. Edited my post above, thanks!

For FMC #337 I wrote down sixty eight 8f insertions from a 19 move skeleton with a 5C remaining.

I found
5 that canceled three moves
9 that canceled two moves
8 that canceled one moves
The rest didn't cancel, and I didn't write them all down.

This is a little excessive; I mostly did it for the practice of doing everything, so next time I would understand why and when I didn't have to.

Also, if you insert within an insertion, the one that finishes first counts first, not the one that starts first.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 8, 2011)

For 5 cycles, I see two ways of doing it - one totally thorough, the other one good if you have less time left.

You have the five cycles - (123) (234) (345) (451) (512). Go through every move in your skeleton, marking down how many moves each of those cycles would take. Then look at all combinations and find the best combination. Combinations are (123)(451), (234)(512), (345)(123), (451)(234), (512)(345).

You must note this important fact: If you see that there is a nice 3 move cancellation on say a (123) cycle, you can't just then look on your piece of paper for the best (451) cycle and put that in, because depending on whether the cycle is after or before the (123) cycle, it might not work. So for this case, you'd have to look for either a (345) insertion that is before the (123) insertion, or a (451) insertion that is after the (123) insertion. This is all assuming you just want to go through the solution once and never have to rescramble with the new skeleton that contains a first insertion.

This method is good, but not entirely thorough, because there's always a chance that you could do an insertion inside the first insertion and cancel more moves. For this way of doing things, you'd have to look at all the possibilities for a first insertion (which is probably ~100) and look through the new skeleton (well the moves of the insertion anyway) that leaves just 3 corners for all those cases, just in case there is a massive cancellation there.

EDIT: I think most people tend to do the first way, but they also rescramble with the new skeleton before looking for a 2nd insertion, which I think wastes a lot of time, because they might end up checking through five different skeletons (one for each of the best first insertions) when in fact all they're gaining over the method I've described above is the option to insert a comm inside a comm


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## Cubenovice (Nov 8, 2011)

Thank you for your feedback.

Especially on the combinations, I never realised that 

With 5 corners I typically take the best insertion and go though the whole skeleton again.
Never gave it a second thought as finding 3 cycles with only 3 stickers is pretty straight-forward.
But as I always write down the cycle numbers anyway I should actually look into my notes to check if I already have a combination to complete the 5 cycle.
From there it is only a small extra step to check within the best "1st insertions" if there is something better.

Will check this combination-thinghy on my notes for 370 

BTW


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## Kryptonite (Nov 8, 2011)

I prefer the thorough method, but mostly because I never go for 1-hr or less solves (for reasons just recently discussed, lol). But it's true, to be 100% thorough, you must find _every_ insertion, and then look for each potential corresponding insertion within all the first level insertions found. Luckily the fun does terminate at the insertion within the insertion, and doesn't loop forever, haha.

I wonder however, if there's a theoretical limit to the benefit of an insertion within an insertion? For example, if the limit was 6, and I had a 6 move cancellation 5C already, I know that it really would be a waste of my time to check each 0-cancel insertion for an amazing insertion, because I could only match my previous best. I mean, theoretically the only way you could cancel 16 moves from a single insertion would be if you had added a counter-productive 3-cycle into your skeleton, lol.

Also, I'm fairly certain that you only need to look at 8f* insertions. Teemu disagreed with this when I said it earlier, and he may be right, but I'm unconvinced that it's possible to use conjugates to get an insertion fewer than 8 moves after cancellations. I'm pretty sure you would find these potential insertions by simply looking at the 8f*s.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 8, 2011)

Just to make it clear again, when you find a nice (123) insertion, I said you have the option of a (345) before it, or a (451) after it. If you rescrambled with the new skeleton that includes the (123) insertion, you'd find that you need to cycle (451) anywhere in the scramble. So finding a (345) that comes before the (123) (having not actually applied the moves, just found them), is just the same as rescrambling and finding a (451) in the first part of the solution.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 8, 2011)

Kryptonite said:


> Also, I'm fairly certain that you only need to look at 8f* insertions. Teemu disagreed with this when I said it earlier, and he may be right, but I'm unconvinced that it's possible to use conjugates to get an insertion fewer than 8 moves after cancellations. I'm pretty sure you would find these potential insertions by simply looking at the 8f*s.


 
Sorry for double post. I believe that 9/10 movers that are just 8 movers with set up moves are useless. But of course if you know some 10 move algs that aren't comms for some corner cases then you could find better insertions. Personally I only ever look at 8 movers because I think 99% of the time they'd be the best ones anyway.


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## Kryptonite (Nov 8, 2011)

Definitely at least 99%, though it'd be nice to know either way if they are 100% or not. Are you sure there are no 3C that aren't simply conjugates of the 8f* commutators? I'm not doubting you, I just don't remember and don't have cube explorer handy.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 8, 2011)

I might be being really stupid here, but something like R U2 L' U2 R' U2 R U2 L U2 R' U2. Is that a conjugate of an 8 move comm?


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## Kryptonite (Nov 8, 2011)

Nice, that's optimal? I'm assuming so, since you can't cycle those with an 8.

It is an unconjugated commutator. The 8f*s look something like this R D R' U R D' R' U', simplifying to X Y X' Y' (our definition of commutators), where X = R D R' and Y = U.

In this case, we expand X: X = R U2 L' U2 R' and Y = U2.

Edit: Though interestingly enough, there are clearly conjugates within X in both cases, X = A B A', where A = R in the first case and R U2 in the second. This isn't directly relevant to the topic because we are only affected by conjugates outside of the commutator. But still, always interesting to examine the structure of the algs .


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## kinch2002 (Nov 9, 2011)

Just asked someone because I wasn't sure, and yes it is optimal. It's known as the Per Special.

I totally didn't see that commutator form hiding in there - I forgot to look for 5 moves and 1 move for each part


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## Kryptonite (Nov 9, 2011)

Haha, yeah, I had to stare at it a while. Nice job though, you've eliminated the possibility of 8f*s revealing all potential optimal insertions.

Now we just have to show whether or not you need to look at conjugated commutators to find them all.


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 9, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> Just to make it clear again, when you find a nice (123) insertion, I said you have the option of a (345) after it, or a (451) before it.



kinch2002, the valid combinations you list seem backwards to me. Maybe you number your cycles differently than I do. I'll use as an example my entry for FMC #369.

(Note, in my submitted entry I wrote the 6th move of the skeleton wrong. It's B, not B'.)

Scramble: B' L R B' F R' F2 L U' L' U' L U D' F D' U' F2 B R2 D2 F2 U D' B2 D U' L' B2 U'
Skeleton
2x2x3: B2 F' L' U' R' . B R' U R' L F (11/11)
Edges: L U B L B' L .. U' L2 (8/19)

I number the cubies the way they _need to be_ cycled, so I numbered the cubies like this:
1) UFL (WGO)
2) LDB (OYB)
3) BUL (BWO)
4) DLF (YOG)
5) UBR (WBR)

I then looked for insertions for all five 3-cycles. I found an insertion for (123) after the fifth move that cancels four moves, and an insertion for (451) that cancels two moves after the 17th move. For my way of numbering I knew that these would combine properly since the first number of the earlier 3-cycle insertion matches the last number of the later 3-cycle insertion (where the cycles are given so the "gap" in the numbering is after the last number of the triplet, of course).

Insert at ".": L2 B R' B' L2 B R B' (8-4/23) cycles (123)
Insert at "..": R D2 R' U' R D2 R' U (8-2/29) cycles (451) with respect to the original skeleton


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## Kryptonite (Nov 9, 2011)

Yeah, I agree with Bruce, by normal cycle notation, I don't think your list is correct.

The combos should be:
(123)(451)
(234)(512)
(345)(123)
(451)(234)
(512)(345)


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## Cubenovice (Nov 9, 2011)

cuBerBruce said:


> I then looked for insertions for all five 3-cycles. I found an insertion for (123) after the fifth move that cancels four moves, and an insertion for (451) that cancels two moves after the 17th move. For my way of numbering I knew that these would combine properly *since the first number of the earlier 3-cycle insertion matches the last number of the later 3-cycle insertion* (where the cycles are given so the "gap" in the numbering is after the last number of the triplet, of course).


 
Thank you for the detailled example.
I feel so stupid right now for never realising that I actually have to look for cycles only once (excluding the comm. inside comm. check)

For the bolded part: I think I will remind this as *the 2nd cycle has to be the continuation of the first* (as in successive numbers).

I have some spare time this evening so I definitely will analyse my notes for 370.
This has been a great read, thank you all for your feedback.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for telling me I've got it wrong - I think I have! I've edited the relevant posts in case people come and read them some other time.
For example - 'Just to make it clear again, when you find a nice (123) insertion, I said you have the option of a (345) after it, or a (451) before it' should actually read 'Just to make it clear again, when you find a nice (123) insertion, I said you have the option of a (345) _before_ it, or a (451) _after_ it.'


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## guusrs (Nov 9, 2011)

Erik said:


> My 29 move solution at Cachan open 2011:
> 
> Scramble: U2 L' U2 L' R' B2 F2 L' D2 U L2 B R D' B R B2 D2 U F2 R' (21)
> Inverse scramble: R F2 U' D2 B2 R' B' D R' B' L2 U' D2 L F2 B2 R L U2 L U2
> ...


 
Hi Erik,

Pretty hopeless scramble for me, but you did excellent work with that edge orientation, NISS search and 16 move frame.
If you would practice more on insertions you could be an exc..... 
he, ho wait, NOOOO! Do *not* practice insertions. You're already done great work on FMC so far. 
It's not a shame you missed that WR 2 years ago because you didn't know about insertions
*I* want that NR and next: WR!

kidding (-;
The first insertion seems optimal to me. A second insertion with 3 move cancellation is possible somewhere at the end of the frame resulting in a 26-move result.

Can you find it? (tip: use stickers!)

See ya

Gus


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## Cubenovice (Nov 9, 2011)

Hey... I missed that post as it was at the bottom of the page
Nice solution, too bad about the missed insertion though.

I typically take a look at EO at the start, if it is short enough (as in your solution) I will explore it and take the shortest EO of normal and inverse, also checking it as premove like you did.

Regarding that NR: Spols open in Brussels has 2 rounds of FMC.
I'm coming after you


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## Kryptonite (Nov 10, 2011)

Okay guys, I'm trying to prove (or disprove) the following hypothesis:
All corner insertions that cost less than 8 moves after cancelations can be found by only looking for unconjugated corner 3-cycles.

I've got a couple "proofs" done, you guys'll have to check these, I haven't done proofs in a long time, and I've never done them in the context of the cube, which is pretty tricky.

The first case is completely canceling (eliminating rather than combining moves) both sides of a conjugated 8f*
A B * C D
Where * = X Y X^-1
then
B = X^-1 and C = X
So our skeleton = A D
and our insertion = A Y D
Meaning in actuality we inserted an unconjugated 8f*.

Let's look at completely canceling only one side (proving one should prove the other)
A B * C D
where * = X Y X^-1 and B = X^-1
This simplifies to
A B X Y X^-1 C D
A X^-1 X Y X^-1 C D
A Y X^-1 C D
Which can also be expressed as
A Y B C D
So we had no need for the conjugated commutator, we already found this result after A!

Combining both sides (canceling one move on both sides) cannot yield better than an 8 move insertion for fairly obvious reasons.
A B * C D
where * = X Y X^-1
A B X Y X^-1 C D
Where B X = E and X^-1 C = F
A E Y F D
The combined moves E and F essentially road block any additional cancellations, and B and C could have been combined in the first place.

If a move of the commutator cancels with the conjugate we have the following
A B * C D
where * = X Y X^-1
and Y = X^-1 Z
so * = Z X-1
since * is 8 moves (Y is 8, so X + Z = 8), it must be an unconjugated commutator, since all 8f* algs are unconjugated commutators.

The next case is when the commutator combines with the conjugate, but I haven't solved this one yet.

I can't think of any other cases...

Okay, that's where I'm at right now. Let me know what you think, there may be some flaws, gaps, or logical jumps, and it's incomplete. I'll keep updating as I go or as other people figure it out. It'd be really interesting to have this one answered.


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## Erik (Nov 10, 2011)

Thx Guus, I'll try to find some stuff later. I did use stickers, but I'm horrible at recognizing the right commutator nonetheless. I always use a different cube to set it up so I can recognize it properly, but that takes time...

Would you come to a competition with 6 FMC attempts? Would be a fun Twente Open thing


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## Cubenovice (Nov 10, 2011)

Erik, do you write the full commutator before making any move, or execute the comm "while" you write?
I find the first approach works best as it allows me to write down all possible commutators while working trough my solution.
I will only execute the (best) commutator *after* checking the full skeleton, never *during*.

For identifying the best commutators I only glance at the start and end move, if it doesn't cancel anything I move further trough the skeleton.
(I do write down the very first 8-mover even if it does not cancel, just in case there is nothing better.)


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## marco.garsed (Nov 10, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Hey... I missed that post as it was at the bottom of the page
> Nice solution, too bad about the missed insertion though.
> 
> I typically take a look at EO at the start, if it is short enough (as in your solution) I will explore it and take the shortest EO of normal and inverse, also checking it as premove like you did.
> ...


 
this is a very good trick to start solves!

stupid question:

If in normal scramble I have n bad edges I have same n bad edges in the inverse scramble right?

another stupid question...

If I find EO for example R L F (too lucky XD) my premoves will be F' L' R' ?


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## Cubenovice (Nov 10, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> If in normal scramble I have n bad edges I have same n bad edges in the inverse scramble right?
> If I find EO for example R L F (too lucky XD) my premoves will be F' L' R' ?



Yes, same number of bad edges but in different locations so different moves to solve
Yes, starting moves found on the inverse should be inversed if you use them as premoves for the regular scramble

Same thing for switching the other way: starting moves found on the normal scrambles should be inversed if you want to use them as premoves for the inverse scramble.


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## okayama (Nov 10, 2011)

Erik said:


> Would you come to a competition with 6 FMC attempts? Would be a fun Twente Open thing


Which competition? Information available in the WCA site? I'd like to go if possible!


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## guusrs (Nov 10, 2011)

Erik said:


> Would you come to a competition with 6 FMC attempts? Would be a fun Twente Open thing


 
Yesssssssss! I certainly will.
(so I do for or any >0 FMC attempts)


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## guusrs (Nov 10, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> If in normal scramble I have n bad edges I have same n bad edges in the inverse scramble right?


Yep!



marco.garsed said:


> If I find EO for example R L F (too lucky XD) my premoves will be F' L' R' ?


Right!


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## guusrs (Nov 10, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> I find the first approach works best as it allows me to write down all possible commutators while working trough my solution.
> I will only execute the (best) commutator *after* checking the full skeleton, never *during*.
> 
> For identifying the best commutators I only glance at the start and end move, if it doesn't cancel anything I move further trough the skeleton.
> (I do write down the very first 8-mover even if it does not cancel, just in case there is nothing better.)



I never really execute any insertion. I only investigate, write down and continue for searching an even better insertion.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 10, 2011)

Guus, in 1.5 weeks the Spols open in Brussels has 2 rounds of FMC on Saturday


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## Kryptonite (Nov 10, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> If in normal scramble I have n bad edges I have same n bad edges in the inverse scramble right?





guusrs said:


> Yep!



Do you (or anyone) know why this is? Why do the things you've done forward appear in the inverse and vice versa? Also, since at least some of the pieces are predictable, is there a way to predict the entire cube layout before you NISS?


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## guusrs (Nov 11, 2011)

okayama said:


> Which competition? Information available in the WCA site? I'd like to go if possible!


 
Ha, ha,
That competition exists for 3 years now.... in Erik's head.
But I really hope he's going to organize that comp some time.

Do you already know were Twente is located?
It's the area were Erik and I grew up (with 25 years in between)


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## okayama (Nov 11, 2011)

guusrs said:


> Ha, ha,
> That competition exists for 3 years now.... in Erik's head.
> But I really hope he's going to organize that comp some time.
> 
> ...


I see.  When it becomes reality I want to participate it!
I didn't know the place, and I want to see Erik's and your hometown.


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## marco.garsed (Nov 11, 2011)

thank you for answer... I often get confused about premoves... because I don't really get the logic behind them at all...


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## kinch2002 (Nov 11, 2011)

I can try to explain some logic behind using premoves while solving with the normal scramble only.

Imagine you've made a pseudo F2L (so that, say, you need to do R2 to put some of those pieces in the 'correct' place) Then you might carry on solving the LL. And then right at the end you would do R2 and everything would be solved. You can do this of course, but it's really difficult to, for example, see what LL case you have, because not all the pieces are of one colour etc. So to help you do this, you can do a premove, and then the F2L will actually look correct and you can do some nice LL stuff. Of course when you come to write down your solution at the end, you need to add the premove to the end of your solution - remember I said that you would 'do an R2 and everything would be solved'.


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## okayama (Nov 11, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> thank you for answer... I often get confused about premoves... because I don't really get the logic behind them at all...



Scramble + Solution can be considered as a loop.

Suppose that

Scramble: A B C D
Solution: p q r s

then the sequence _A B C D p q r s_ doesn't anything to the cube.
And, as an important thing, the sequence
_s (A B C D p q r s) s'_ = _s A B C D p q r_
doesn't anything to the cube. If you connect the head and tail, and consider
it as a loop, _A B C D p q r s_ and _s A B C D p q r_ are the same.
Similarly, the following sequences


_s A B C D p q r_
_r s A B C D p q_
_q r s A B C D p_
...
_B C D p q r s A_
don't anything to the cube, because these are the same loop if you connect the head and tail.
And for example, the first one can be considered as

Premove: s
Scramble: A B C D
Solution: p q r

This is why premove works.

See also my example solve.
The logic is explained at the end.


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## Erik (Nov 11, 2011)

Yes Twente open is still imaginary, but it will be much easier to organize if its only FMC. 
I just send out a few emails to find a venue. If its going to be a small FMC comp, I might be able to get my chess club.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 11, 2011)

Erik said:


> Yes Twente open is still imaginary, but it will be much easier to organize if its only FMC.
> I just send out a few emails to find a venue. If its going to be a small FMC comp, I might be able to get my chess club.



consider this post as my pre-registration


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## Kryptonite (Nov 11, 2011)

Kryptonite said:


> Why do the things you've done forward appear in the inverse and vice versa? Also, since at least some of the pieces are predictable, is there a way to predict the entire cube layout before you NISS?



Just realized the answers to both my questions. Since the Scramble + Solution in Progress are a cycle we can express them in cycle notation. And any piece that ends up where it started is its own cycle (X), which is just the identity permutation. The Inverse of the Scramble + Solution in Progress is simply the inverse of the forward cycle, so identities stay identities, which explains why solved pieces stay solved. Also, this means we can predict how the inverse of any move set will look without turning any faces or even knowing the move set.

For example (ignoring orientation for simplicity), if you have a 2x2x3 solved, made up of the pieces 6, 7, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, you might have a cycle that looks like
(154238)(9 12 10 20 13 16 11)(6)(7)(14)(15)(17)(18)(19)

Which simplifies to
(154238)(9 12 10 20 13 16 11)

And the inverse would be
(11 16 13 20 10 12 9)(832451)

So technically you could use your infinite stickers to paste on the NISS effects... but it might be faster just to do the moves.


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## Julian (Nov 12, 2011)

35-move linear FMC: D' R' U' F2 U F' D B2 R F2 D L' F' B2 U' D F D' U R B D2 R L D'

R' B U B' U'
D B' D2 B2 D2 B'
D' F D F' D L D L'
D2 F D F2 R F R'
B R F' R' B' R F R' D


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## Cubenovice (Nov 12, 2011)

Julian said:


> 35-move linear FMC: D' R' U' F2 U F' D B2 R F2 D L' F' B2 U' D F D' U R B D2 R L D'
> 
> R' B U B' U'
> D B' D2 B2 D2 B'
> ...


 
A very nice solve but something tells me this was not specifically intended as a fewest moves attempt 
Then you would have made a completely different start with all those blocks.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 12, 2011)

Learned something new about premoves today:
Premoves can lower the optimal movecount for a specific block 
I thought they would typically cancel out...

On the weekly 46 scramble my 2x2x3 block incl its 2 premoves is 1 HTM shorter than all possible optimal 2x2x3 blocks on the normal scramble 

Before someone disagrees after seeing my solution: I inserted one move for better continuation; making the block no longer optimal.


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## Zane_C (Nov 12, 2011)

My FMC solution for Weekly comp 46: 

*FMC* = *28 HTM*


Spoiler



Solution: R' D' B' U' L D2 R2 D B' D2 B F' L D' L' F' R F2 R2 D R2 U' R2 D' R2 U R' F = 28 HTM

2x2x2: R' D' B' U' L
2x2x3: D2 R2 D B' D2 B
F2L-1: F' L D' L'
Finish F2L: F' R F2 *R'*
LL: *R'* D R2 U' R2 D' R2 U R' F 

Comment: Too easy, lucky actually.
My intention was to use OLL/PLL for the backup solution, then the skip turned it into a good final solution. Thus, I found this in about 10 minutes.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 12, 2011)

Nice one!
A 19 move F2L deserves some luck with the LL 

Lol at the others that may not open the spoiler before competing


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## Kryptonite (Nov 13, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Learned something new about premoves today:
> Premoves can lower the optimal movecount for a specific block
> I thought they would typically cancel out...
> 
> On the weekly 46 scramble my 2x2x3 block incl its 2 premoves is 1 HTM shorter than all possible optimal 2x2x3 blocks on the normal scramble



Interesting, I always assumed that premoves/NISS could yield more and better options.

Though interestingly enough...


Spoiler



if you started on the inverse scramble, there are 5 ways you could get to a 2x2x3 in one fewer move than the optimal going forward (8 vs 9). But then, I suppose that could be considered eight premoves...


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## Cubenovice (Nov 13, 2011)

Oh noes... You revealed the optimal HTM for an ongoing comp :0

Please add spoiler tags as now you are providing important info for the active comp.


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## Kryptonite (Nov 13, 2011)

:fp

Sorry! Tags added, thank you.


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## Zane_C (Nov 13, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Nice one!


Thanks. 



Zane_C said:


> *FMC* = *39 HTM*
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





irontwig said:


> You just start using pseudo block, Zane
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I must ask about premoves. I know what they are, but don't know how to find them. 
How is it known that a D premove will set up a good block? All I know is yellow pieces will be permuted differently.


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## irontwig (Nov 13, 2011)

It's the other way around; you find the premoves after the you find the block(s). The premoves are the moves that you would do to bring all pieces into the correct places.

Example:
Scramble: R2 B D B2 D U B F2 R' B L2 U' F2 B R D2 B' R2 D B2 D2 B' U D' L R' B' D' B2 L2 (FMC 361)

F2 L2 F2 L' B2 D' R D R (After L2 the pieces in the left square is solved, so premove is L2) (My start)
U' F2 L' R D2 L' U2 L2 B2 D U' (Both roux blocks need to be turned counter clockwise to be solved so premoves are U' D') (Mirek's start)

hth


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## guusrs (Nov 13, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> consider this post as my pre-registration



Erik,
Same for me (as long as is it not in the weekend of 10/11 december
Let's do a duel FMC knock out competition (with chessclock)!
Guus


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## Kryptonite (Nov 13, 2011)

Zane_C said:


> I must ask about premoves. I know what they are, but don't know how to find them.
> How is it known that a D premove will set up a good block? All I know is yellow pieces will be permuted differently.



Good premoves can realistically be found at any time, though they are most commonly used to fix a psuedo block, and there are a couple ways to do it. If you decide to start and solve on the inverse scramble, you are essentially only using premoves. And when you use NISS you are creating premoves any time you switch to the inverse.

Like you said the yellow pieces are permuted differently, this is what allows you to visualize the effects of a premove without switching your cube to the inverse. The premove D will essentially rotate the yellow pieces, as if they were all on the same face, and premove X rotates the pieces that are the same color as the center face you are turning. So D moves the Yellow-Red edge to where the Yellow-Blue edge is and so forth. It's sort of like a fourth dimensional move, because it's a move you want now, but actually happens to the scramble later.

Edit: My solution from FMC 371 is actually a pretty good example of using pre-moves. I found all four of these without switching the cube to the inverse.

Solution: F2 U' B2 R U2 B U B2 U B2 U' R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' U2 R B' R2 F2 R2 B' (26 moves)

Here is the order I actually found/used the first 8 moves [for premoves]
[B'] [R2] F2 [F2] U' B2 R [R2]


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## guusrs (Nov 13, 2011)

Kryptonite said:


> Good premoves can realistically be found at any time, though they are most commonly used to fix a psuedo block, and there are a couple ways to do it. If you decide to start and solve on the inverse scramble, you are essentially only using premoves. And when you use NISS you are creating premoves any time you switch to the inverse.
> 
> Like you said the yellow pieces are permuted differently, this is what allows you to visualize the effects of a premove without switching your cube to the inverse. The premove D will essentially rotate the yellow pieces, as if they were all on the same face, and premove X rotates the pieces that are the same color as the center face you are turning. So D moves the Yellow-Red edge to where the Yellow-Blue edge is and so forth. It's sort of like a fourth dimensional move, because it's a move you want now, but actually happens to the scramble later.
> 
> ...



That was a great solution for a hard scramble. You beated everyone.
It also proves that a range of pre-moves can sometimes (!) be found without the inverse scramble.


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## Kryptonite (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks! I was pretty excited, new PB. Still got pretty lucky in a few places, so I'm yet to really keep up with you guys


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## marco.garsed (Nov 14, 2011)

okayama said:


> Scramble + Solution can be considered as a loop.
> 
> Suppose that
> 
> ...


 


> I can try to explain some logic behind using premoves while solving with the normal scramble only.
> 
> Imagine you've made a pseudo F2L (so that, say, you need to do R2 to put some of those pieces in the 'correct' place) Then you might carry on solving the LL. And then right at the end you would do R2 and everything would be solved. You can do this of course, but it's really difficult to, for example, see what LL case you have, because not all the pieces are of one colour etc. So to help you do this, you can do a premove, and then the F2L will actually look correct and you can do some nice LL stuff. Of course when you come to write down your solution at the end, you need to add the premove to the end of your solution - remember I said that you would 'do an R2 and everything would be solved'.



thank you I think I finally reached the concept... I'll try some solves and I'll see your example later... thank you very much!


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## Kryptonite (Nov 14, 2011)

So, I've got a question. The WCA rules state that competitors can have unlimited stickers. Given this, would a cube with magnetic tiles be acceptable? I can't see it providing any significant advantage over having unlimited stickers other than providing more convenient adhesive.


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 14, 2011)

Kryptonite said:


> So, I've got a question. The WCA rules state that competitors can have unlimited stickers. Given this, would a cube with magnetic tiles be acceptable? I can't see it providing any significant advantage over having unlimited stickers other than providing more convenient adhesive.


The WCA rules are quite vague on what's allowed. I've seen people use cubes with stickers removed, and someone using a 7x7x7 cube as one of his extra cubes. Arguably these could be viewed as violations of the rules as stated. For example, I believe 3x3x3's are not allowed for 2x2x2 speedsolve, so by the same logic, 7x7x7's would seem to illegal for 3x3x3 fewest moves, since the rules for fewest moves doesn't seem to have any special rules saying otherwise. Perhaps you should raise the question on the WCA forum.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 14, 2011)

Now that UK Open is over, I can start on my next project, which is a Fewest Moves Tutorial. I know what you're probably thinking - how can you teach FMC in a video?! Well I'm not overly concerned about that, because although I think written tutorials work better for FMC, I know that a lot of people would rather just sit back and watch a video instead. There's a constant stream of people who want to know how to FMC and ask about inverse/pseudo/NISS etc so I think it's time there's a series of videos to link people to. I've had some initial thoughts about it and this I what I've come up with:

1. Basic overview: Includes some important rules, some of the methods that are used, and a few general tips
2. Starting a solve and finding continuations
3. Finishing a solve: Insertions (corners inc. 4 and 5 corners left, and edges too), and other LL stuff
4. Pseudo blocks and using the inverse scramble (including NISS ofc)

What I'd really appreciate now is if people could give me some feedback on what they think should be included, because I'm bound to miss something important out!
Or just tell me if you you think it's a terrible idea/I'm the wrong person for the job!


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## Cubenovice (Nov 14, 2011)

I think you should try to keep it simple:
- typical blockbuilding starts
- insertions of single moves into those blocks to check for better continuation
- the simple way to 5 corners left: F2L-1 + LL edges
- show how you find premoves via pseudo blocks.
- if people go for a finished F2L:
- - - - when inserting the last pair: try different ways of inserting to see if you get lucky
- - - - try multiple OLL and their mirrors to see if you get lucky 
- simple edge and corner cycle insertions (would not include all the info that was posted over the last week on the finding the 5-cycles in a single pass of the sekelton)

For NISS I'd stick to a "plain" inverse scramble or perhaps max one switch. 
Keep "switching back and forth" for a possible later video as it will confuse the hell out of people 

For methods: refer to some good tutorials (heise, petrus) and offcourse AVG write up on FMC .


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## marco.garsed (Nov 14, 2011)

I would really appreciate it... it could be useful talking about EO if you have any ideas about it...

@cubenovice who are you on WCA?


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## Cubenovice (Nov 14, 2011)

I shall remain anonymous until I get the opportunity to "officialise" my signature.
Should be next weekend


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## marco.garsed (Nov 14, 2011)

haha! so... good luck!


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## okayama (Nov 15, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> I shall remain anonymous until I get the opportunity to "officialise" my signature.
> Should be next weekend


FYI there are some people with such official results. 

Adam Schwartz
Anja Provoost
Bruce Norskog
Klaas Steenhuis
Nico Kurmann
Olivier Polspoel
EDIT: Oops, I investigated 333 average, not single. But Nico Kurmann is still such a person.
Anyway good luck on your next competition!


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## marco.garsed (Nov 16, 2011)

does someone used the Heise method after F2L-1? there are three approaches:

-solve all 5 edges (leaving 5 corners)
-making two pairs + solve edges (leaving 3 corners)
-make one pair and solve edges while solving the second pair (? too hard XD)

I'm focusing on second step but I usually do easly the two pairs but then for solving all but 3 corners I need often to do a pairs comm and it's cool (XD) but are too many moves... (at least 8 for comm + 8 for insertion of the last 3C) do you have any example solve with this method?


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## Cubenovice (Nov 16, 2011)

I think all of these are used or at least tested at the F2L-1 stage.
Since I am very bad at the pair (s) approach I typically try to keep a short F2L-1 and go for the “leaving 5 corners”
I will offcourse try some variations to see if I can fluke my way into leaving just 3 corners.

If I can’t find 3 corners is still prefer L4C over L5C as I feel this increases chances of finding cancellations as the 1st commutator only needs to solve one corner.
This makes for many possible commutators and if you can link one to a conjugate in the skeleton you’re in for a cancel-fest.

For example solves I think Okayama is your man; he uses pair comm more often than the other regular FMC solvers.

There is also a speedsolving thread on the 2 pair approach with examples on forming the pair and some full solves from there.

BTW: does anyone know where Armin and Johannes went? They both seem very knowledgable.


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## irontwig (Nov 16, 2011)

I mostly try to leave three corners, often Snyder style by solving a (pseudo) F2L, or of course solve the entire LL if I happen to know the case.


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 16, 2011)

For the last 5 edges from F2L minus 1 slot, there are 69 cases (not counting the solved case) when reduced by pre-AUF, post-AUF, and mirrors. I've learned optimal algs for each case, so I can solve any of the 1920 edge configurations within 2 moves of optimal. Of course, this often leads to bad L5C cases, so other approaches generally must be tried as well.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 16, 2011)

Bruce, thats quite interesting!

Would you mind sharing the movecount distibution for these 69 cases? 
Or perhaps the greater scheme with AUF's?


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## kinch2002 (Nov 16, 2011)

@cuBerBruce I'd be interested in seeing the list itself 

@Cubenovice Thanks for the feedback for the tutorial - I'll be sure to include those points. I'm in full time work, so it may take time for me to put it together, but I'll get there eventually


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 16, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Bruce, thats quite interesting!
> 
> Would you mind sharing the movecount distibution for these 69 cases?
> Or perhaps the greater scheme with AUF's?


 
The distribution for the optimal configuration of each case is:


```
moves    count
  3        3
  4        1
  5        4
  6       12
  7       29
  8       10
  9       10
```

Note that this is the distribution of the best configurations for each case, and pre-AUF and post-AUF may add 2 moves for a particular configuration within a case.

I divide the cases up by permutation. I assume the last layer is U and the slot is FR. If the slot edge is solved or flipped in place, I have just an LL case except the DRF corner does not need to be preserved (and FR may be flipped). In this case, either the LL edges are in the proper order or a single swap can put them in the proper order. If an adjacent swap is needed, I put the two edges to be swapped at UL an UB. If two opposite edges need to be swapped, either pair will work, but I may have to choose a particular pair to match one of my orientation cases. I may also need to mirror in order to match one of my orientation cases.

If the slot has a last layer edge, I rotate the cube if needed so the U sticker will be on the front face (at FL or FR). If I need to have it at FL, I have a mirror case. Putting it another way, a last layer edge in the slot is always considered to be oriented correctly! I then pre-AUF so that the FR (or FL) cubie is in the front (at UF or FU). The other 3 edges in the U layer are then permuted in one of 6 possible ways with respect to the UF cubie if we imagine the UF cubie to be in its correct place.

For an LL edge in the slot, there are always have 8 orientation cases for each of the six permutation cases. If the edge slot is in its correct place (possibly flipped), there are 5 orientation cases if the LL edges are permuted correctly (excluding solved case), 6 for opposite swap, and 10 for adjacent swap.

EDIT:


kinch2002 said:


> @cuBerBruce I'd be interested in seeing the list itself


It's easier for me to simply supply the ACube output file. This file contains all the optimal algs, not just the ones I learned, and many sub-optimal ones as well. One problem is that it omits the post-AUF move so you have to figure out what post-AUF is needed to match the canonical case. Also, the order is somewhat random. I inserted into a .zip file for compression.

EDIT2:
Here are the actual algs I memorized, along with the cases they solve. A colon separates the case from the alg. The permutations are given in cubie cycle notation, and the unparenthesized part indicates the misoriented edge positions.


Spoiler



() UB UL: U R U' B U B' U R' U2
() UR UL: R U' B U2 B' U R' U2
() UL FR: F' U' F U' R U R' U
() UF UR UB UL: R B2 U2 R B R' U2 B2 R' U
() UR UB UL FR: R B U B' U R' F' U' F U'

(UF FR): R U R' U R U R' U2
(UF FR) UF UR: F' L' U L F R U R' U'
(UF FR) UF UB: R U R' U2 F' U F U
(UF FR) UF UL: U2 F' U F R B U B' R' U
(UF FR) UR UB: R B2 L' B' L B' U' R' U2
(UF FR) UR UL: R B U B' U2 R' U2
(UF FR) UB UL: R U R' U2 R' F R F' U2
(UF FR) UF UR UB UL: R B U2 B2 R B R2 U'

(UF FR)(UR UB): R U R' U' R U' R' U
(UF FR)(UR UB) UF UR: U R U' R' U2 F' U2 F
(UF FR)(UR UB) UF UB: U' R B U B' R'
(UF FR)(UR UB) UF UL: U R U R' U' F' U' F U2
(UF FR)(UR UB) UR UB: U R B U2 B' R' U'
(UF FR)(UR UB) UR UL: U F2 B D' L D F2 B'
(UF FR)(UR UB) UB UL: F2 B D' L' D B' F2 U'
(UF FR)(UR UB) UF UR UB UL: U' F' L2 B L B' U L F

(UR UL): R' F R U2 L F L' U2 F' U2
(UR UL) UR UL: F' U F R U R' F' U2 F U
(UR UL) UB UL: R U R' F' L' U' L F U'
(UR UL) UL FR: R B U B' R' U' F' U F
(UR UL) UF UR UB UL: F R' F' R2 U2 R2 F R F' U'
(UR UL) UR UB UL FR: U2 F R' F' R2 B U B' R' U2

(UF FR) (UR UL): U R U2 R' U'
(UF FR) (UR UL) UF UR: U R U' R' U F' U' F U2
(UF FR) (UR UL) UF UB: F U R' U' F' U R U
(UF FR) (UR UL) UF UL: U' F' U' L' U2 L F
(UF FR) (UR UL) UR UB: R U' B U B' U' R' U'
(UF FR) (UR UL) UR UL: U' F U R U' R2 F' R U
(UF FR) (UR UL) UB UL: U R U B U' B' U R'
(UF FR) (UR UL) UF UR UB UL: B' R U2 F B' R' F' R' B2 U'

(UB UL): U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' U
(UB UL) UF UR: F' L' U2 L U2 F U'
(UB UL) UR UB: U R' U' F' U F R
(UB UL) UR UL: R' F' U' F U R U'
(UB UL) UB UL: U B' R' B' R' B R' B' R2 B2 U'
(UB UL) UL FR: F' U' F U R U' R'
(UB UL) UR FR: F' U F R U2 R' U2
(UB UL) UF UR UB UL: R B U' L U2 L' B' U' R' U'
(UB UL) UR UB UL FR: L' R2 D B D' L R' U R' U'
(UB UL) UF UR UL FR: F' L' U L2 F' L' F2 U2

(UF FR)(UB UL): U2 R U' R' U R U R' U
(UF FR)(UB UL) UF UR: U R U' R' U' F' U F U2
(UF FR)(UB UL) UF UB: U2 R U' R' U2 F' U F
(UF FR)(UB UL) UF UL: U' F' L' U L F
(UF FR)(UB UL) UR UB: B' R2 U' R U R2 B U
(UF FR)(UB UL) UR UL: U' B' R2 U' R' U R2 B
(UF FR)(UB UL) UB UL: U2 F R' F' R2 U R' U
(UF FR)(UB UL) UF UR UB UL: U R U2 B U' B2 R B R2

(UF FR)(UR UB UL): U2 R U R'
(UF FR)(UR UB UL) UF UR: U2 R U2 R' U F' U' F U'
(UF FR)(UR UB UL) UF UB: U2 R U' R' U F' U2 F U'
(UF FR)(UR UB UL) UF UL: F' L F' L' F2 U'
(UF FR)(UR UB UL) UR UB: R U B U' B' U' R' U2
(UF FR)(UR UB UL) UR UL: U2 R B U B' U R' U'
(UF FR)(UR UB UL) UB UL: U2 R B U2 B' U R' U2
(UF FR)(UR UB UL) UF UR UB UL: U2 R B L U L' U B' R' U'

(UF FR)(UR UL UB): R U' R' U2
(UF FR)(UR UL UB) UF UR: F R' F' R U
(UF FR)(UR UL UB) UF UB: R U R' U F' U2 F U
(UF FR)(UR UL UB) UF UL: R U2 R' U F' U F U
(UF FR)(UR UL UB) UR UB: U R U' B U' B' R' U2
(UF FR)(UR UL UB) UR UL: U2 R U' B U2 B' R' U2
(UF FR)(UR UL UB) UB UL: U2 R U B U B' U' R'
(UF FR)(UR UL UB) UF UR UB UL: U2 R U' R2 F R F2 U' F U'


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## Cubenovice (Nov 17, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> @Cubenovice Thanks for the feedback for the tutorial - I'll be sure to include those points. I'm in full time work, so it may take time for me to put it together, but I'll get there eventually


Looking forward to it. If you can match the quality of your 4BLD tutorial you have (another) winner!



cuBerBruce said:


> .. amazing stuff...


amazing 

Did you actually memorize all these algs or study their generic functionality (for lack of better wording)?
I really like FMC but I do not like studying algs 

I've been meaning to study all the short LL algs (as once supplied by Irontwig) for ages but I just can't be motivated to start. 
But perhaps some more fail solves at this weekends Spols open can sole the motivation issue


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 17, 2011)

Cubenovice said:


> Did you actually memorize all these algs or study their generic functionality (for lack of better wording)?
> I really like FMC but I do not like studying algs



Basically, just memorized them. I used a phonetic system similar to what Morley Davidson used for memorizing ZBLS and ZBLL. I note some other simplifications could be used, such as reducing the number of cases by inverses, conjugating to another case (sometimes is still optimal), "solving" to a simpler case (such as with the some keyhole cases). You probably don't really have to memorize the keyhole case algs, just know which ones keyhole does optimally. I was somewhat surprised at how few cases keyhole solves optimally.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 17, 2011)

[23:03] <+DavidWoner> ,3
[23:03] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #21650: R F' B2 L B2 U' B2 F' U B2 F U' L D' F U' F' L2 D2 U2 F2 U B' D' L

F2L-1: D2 B L' F' D' B2 R2 B (8)
Switch to inverse
F2L: R' D R D' (12)
Anyone see any finish for this?


@cuBerBruce: Have you got a list of them somewhere? (apart from in your brain)


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## marco.garsed (Nov 17, 2011)

F2L-1: D2 B L' F' D' B2 R2 B (8)
EO: F' U F' U' F2 (5)
L3C: R' D R D' R2 (5)

Nothing special... but it's at least 28 moves


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 18, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> @cuBerBruce: Have you got a list of them somewhere? (apart from in your brain)


 
Yes, I added them to my earlier post.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 18, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> F2L-1: D2 B L' F' D' B2 R2 B (8)
> EO: F' U F' U' F2 (5)
> L3C: R' D R D' R2 (5)
> 
> Nothing special... but it's at least 28 moves



At least 26 since optimal cornercycle is 8 HTM 
Chances of not finding an optimal insertion are pretty slim.


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## jla (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi, everybody.

I'm a CFOP user who wants to get into some FMC. I use some block building but always end up with having to do F2L, OLL and PLL scince I don't know how I would do it otherwise. Any ideas where I should start??


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## wontolla (Nov 18, 2011)

I suggest you to learn a low-count method like Heise for example. You can also take a look at how commutators work and stuff. Here is the link.

There is also a nice explanation of FMC techniques in Arnaud's thread.

Study other people's solves at the weekly competitions.


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## jla (Nov 18, 2011)

wontolla said:


> I suggest you to learn a low-count method like Heise for example. You can also take a look at how commutators work and stuff. Here is the link.
> 
> There is also a nice explanation of FMC techniques in Arnaud's thread.
> 
> Study other people's solves at the weekly competitions.


 
Thank you, gonna look at those links in a minute


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## marco.garsed (Nov 18, 2011)

yes but I didn't check... I'll check later..


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## marco.garsed (Nov 18, 2011)

here's whole solve with my insertion that only cancel a move so that's 25 HTM XD

R F' B2 L B2 U' B2 F' U B2 F U' L D' F U' F' L2 D2 U2 F2 U B' D' L

F2L-1: D2. B L' F' D' B2 R2 B (8)
EO: F' U F' U' F2 (5)
L3C: R' D R D' R2 (5)

.R F2 R' B2 R F2 R' B2 (8)

full solution

D2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 R' B' L' F' D' B2 R2 B F' U F' U' F2 R' D R D' R2

25 HTM XD


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## jla (Nov 18, 2011)

Here's my first try with Heise. Please give me your opinion 

WARNING, I DID THIS WITH THE WEEKLY-46 SCRAMBLE!!


Spoiler



Scramble: F2 R2 U2 B' R' B2 D L' B' U F' L U L2 B R' B U2

Solution: D' B' L2 D L B U2 R' B2 R L2 z2 U2 F U R U R' F2 R U2 R' y' F' U2 F R U R' U' R U2 R' z2 L' U' L D L' U L D y' L' U L D' L' U' L D = 47 HTM

2x2x3: D' B' L2 D L B U2 R' B2 R L2

F2L-3: z2 U2 F U R U R' F2 R U2 R'

EO + EP: y' F' U2 F R U R' U' R U2 R'

Insertions: z2 L' U' L D L' U L D

y' L' U L D' L' U' L D

= 47 HTM


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## Cubenovice (Nov 18, 2011)

I cannot check your solution right now but some pointers:

Write your solution without cube rotations: you have got R' z2 L' in there which is actually an R2 move 
Cube rotations "hide" cancellations. In competition the judge will count your R' z2 L' as two moves.

You obviously know commutators, now try to insert the corners cycles into the earlier part of your solution. 
After 31 HTM you have 2 cycles left, you can expect to cancel 4-5 moves, giveing a final result of 42-43.
For insertions: apply stickers 1-2-3-4-5 to the remaining corners and go trough your solution to see where you can solve these corners.


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## jla (Nov 18, 2011)

Thank you for your help, I'll try to think of those things next time 

Although the thing about the corners confused me a little bit. Could you clarify a little??


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## Kryptonite (Nov 18, 2011)

There's a lot of posts in this thread on insertions, and plenty of other places where you can get all the details, you just gotta do some sifting 

But, here's the basic conceptual overview (I find this is always the trickiest part to really get my head around anyway). A commutator is useful because it only affects a very specific set of pieces. And corner 3-cycles are simple, have a reasonably low move count and the likelihood of a 3-cycle being solvable in the optimal minimum moves is fairly high (whereas the optimal edge cases are unlikely to show up).

And here's where that adds up interestingly. When you apply a corner 3-cycle, the cube is untouched aside from the corners. So lets say you achieve a skeleton where three corners are left unsolved. Now, go back a random number of moves, apply a random 3-cycle to those three corners and then redo your skeleton moves. What happened? Your skeleton is exactly the same, because the commutator you applied has no effect on the pieces that make up your skeleton.

Now, if you were to follow those corners (by applying stickers) you could apply a commutator that would cycle the corners in a way that had the cube solved when you redo the last moves of the skeleton.

The repercussions are great for us FMCers because we can go to ANY point in the skeleton and apply the correct commutator (an insertion), and we solve the corners we need. If we explore all the possiblities, there's a very good chance that we will find an optimal case where the starting or ending move will be on the same face as their adjacent skeleton move, giving us a cancelation, or multiple.

Just throwing out a guess I'd say that on average insertions save about three and a half moves, anyone else have a guess or run the numbers on this?


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## guusrs (Nov 18, 2011)

Kryptonite said:


> Just throwing out a guess I'd say that on average insertions save about three and a half moves, anyone else have a guess or run the numbers on this?



Insertions aren't saving anything, you add moves with it (-;
But OK, compared to a 3-cycle at the end (average 8.8 moves) it saves about 1 move for each 7 moves in your frame. So on average longer frames cancels more moves and shorter frames less.


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## Kryptonite (Nov 18, 2011)

guusrs said:


> Insertions aren't saving anything, you add moves with it (-;



Haha, true. I suppose it would be more accurate to say that not using insertions will typically have an opportunity cost 



guusrs said:


> it saves about 1 move for each 7 moves in your frame



Oh cool, how did you get this number btw?


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## guusrs (Nov 18, 2011)

Kryptonite said:


> Oh cool, how did you get this number btw?


Experience on about 300 insertions I did in the past 5 years.
But we could apply math on that I suppose


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## Cube Equation (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm quite sure that this situation has occurred many times before, but I desperately need help...

I've finally decided to attempt FMC. After conducting some research, I've found that the general approach for a solution seems to be blockbuilding, and then finishing with corner commutators. I have little problems with the latter, as I have recently explored the BH method from BLD. However, I am encountering difficulties when blockbuilding in methods such as Petrus. I find that I would always blockbuild using inefficient CFOP techniques. Therefore, my question is: how can I decrease the average move counts of my blockbuilding? I suspect that the answer may simply be practice. But I would prefer a more specific answer. How exactly should I practise? I feel that simply practising without a specific goal is merely reinforcing my bad habits from CFOP.

Thanks.


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## Kryptonite (Nov 19, 2011)

guusrs said:


> Experience on about 300 insertions I did in the past 5 years.
> But we could apply math on that I suppose


 
That's good enough for me! 

I am curious though, how would one go about the math for this? The cube state during a solve isn't a truly random, so it seems like it would be difficult to determine the "true" value behind insertions.

I suppose one could do an empirical study though by analyzing solves from the FMC challenge. Though, processing the data properly would be no small feat.

EDIT: Also, our guesses are surprisingly similar. I said 3.5 moves, and you said 1 per 7 in the frame. So that means 3.5 moves would be saved in a 24.5 skeleton, giving a final move count of 29.8, and I've personally always considered 30 moves as "the number to beat."


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## kinch2002 (Nov 19, 2011)

I can't think of a better formula off-hand right now, but I certainly don't average over 3 moves per insertion, and my skeletons for L3C do average at least 21. I think I average just over 2 moves cancelling. That's just my feeling - I have no exact figures to back that up.


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## Kryptonite (Nov 19, 2011)

Well, insertions provide a hidden benefit, because they (practically) guarantee an 8f* commutator, whereas applying the 3-cycle at the end, as Guus pointed out, averages 8.8 moves. So the average value of an insertion is .8 + average # of cancellations.


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## guusrs (Nov 20, 2011)

But statistics can lie too: Tomoaki Okayama got a 22 move solve for Per's FMC #372 (http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=372&format=classic&metric=htm)

Scramble: R L' U2 D' R2 U2 B L D2 F' L' R' D2 R2 F D2 U' F' L2 U L2 R U' F' L2 U2 D' F L' F' 

Solve: U2 L' U' L2 U L2 F U B' U' B L' F L' F' U' L2 R U2 B' F D'

(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: U2

2x2x1 block: D F'
2x2x2 block: B U2 R'
2x2x3 block: L2 U
Finish F2L: F L F' L F'

Then

All but 3 corners: B' U B U' * L2 U' L2 U L
Correction: U2

Insert at *: U B' U' F U B U' F' (*8* moves cancel!)

Congratz Tomoaki, but you could have done that insertion straight into your linear solve.


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## marco.garsed (Nov 20, 2011)

guusrs said:


> But statistics can lie too: Tomoaki Okayama got a 22 move solve for Per's FMC #372 (http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=372&format=classic&metric=htm)
> 
> Scramble: R L' U2 D' R2 U2 B L D2 F' L' R' D2 R2 F D2 U' F' L2 U L2 R U' F' L2 U2 D' F L' F'
> 
> ...


 
WTF!? congrats for F2L in 12 moves!


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## irontwig (Nov 20, 2011)

No offence, but that seems to be limited LL knowledge rather than a fantastic insertion though


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## marco.garsed (Nov 20, 2011)

guusrs said:


> But statistics can lie too: Tomoaki Okayama got a 22 move solve for Per's FMC #372 (http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=372&format=classic&metric=htm)
> 
> Scramble: R L' U2 D' R2 U2 B L D2 F' L' R' D2 R2 F D2 U' F' L2 U L2 R U' F' L2 U2 D' F L' F'
> 
> ...


 
WTF!? congrats for F2L in 12 moves!


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 20, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> WTF!? congrats for F2L in 12 moves!



Huh? I count 13 moves.


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## marco.garsed (Nov 20, 2011)

you're right! 13 with premove..


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## okayama (Nov 20, 2011)

guusrs said:


> Congratz Tomoaki, but you could have done that insertion straight into your linear solve.





irontwig said:


> No offence, but that seems to be limited LL knowledge rather than a fantastic insertion though



Yeah, you're right. If you know all of the 10-move LL, you can solve that LL in one step:
F B' U B U' F' L2 U' L2 U
but I currently know only COLL + quite-easy LL... :fp
By the next competition I will learn more LL. 

EDIT: In my experience, two moves (or so) cancel on an average by a corner 3-cycle insertion.


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## guusrs (Nov 20, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> you're right! 13 with premove..


13+1 makes 14 moves for me


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## marco.garsed (Nov 20, 2011)

ok sorry I'm not able to count in these days XD...


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## Cubenovice (Nov 23, 2011)

Spols Open fail-fest

Scramble 1: B' D2 F R2 B F L B U' F U2 F R F L' U R' B R
Scramble 2: L' D2 R2 F U B' L D L F2 R B2 D' B2 D2 B D2 R2

1st
Premoves F D L'
L' F' U2 L2 - 2x2x2	
R . F' D2 - 2x2x3
R2 F R2 F2 - F2L-1
could not find good continuation


After comp, same start
Premoves F D L'
L' F' U2 L2 - 2x2x2	
R . F' D2 - 2x2x3
R' F R' F R2 F2 - F2L-1 (just inserting F into R2 of original solution)
R2 F D' F' D R' D R' D' R - leaves 3 corners
F D L' - undo premoves
At . insert R B R' F' R B' R' F to cancel 3 moves

L' F' U2 L2 R2 B R' F' R B' R' D2 R' F R' F R2 F2 R2 F D' F' D R' D R' D' R F D L' = 31 HTM

2nd
I cannot believe I missed the obvious 2x2x2 block...
I did see that L' made a pair, how could I not see that F' made the square????
At a given moment I decided to just put in a ZZ solve just to get "a result"
6 move EO-line into bad continuation and a notation error to top it off.


On a more positive note:
I've been helping manhobbyfreak a little with FMC techniques and he came very close to a 31 on the 1st scramble.
19 HTM for L5C
1st insertion with 2 moves cancel
2nd insertion with 2 moves cancel but unfortunately the com was faulty. (time pressure)
We've got a future winner here!

Tristan's solution
L' B2 F' L - 2x2x2
R . U2 R2 U' R - 2x2x3
U' R U R' F2 U' F U' F' U2 - leaves 5 corners
at . insert R' B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 to cancel 2 moves
don't have the wrong comm anymore...
We checked what happend, it included an R2 as interchange move but there was only one corner in the R face 

I also ran a check on the L5C and found a 4 move comm after the very first move, leaving 3C in 23 HTM.
We'll both do a full check and compare.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 26, 2011)

20 move FMC 

[22:50] <+Kirjava> scramble: R F U2 R2 U L2 D2 L2 F' L' F' B' L2 B2 D F' U2 R F' D2 F2 L' B' D F'
F2L-1: L2 B' F' R F D2 
Continue: D L F L' F2 D F D2 L (2 twisted corners left)
So the skeleton is: L2 B' F' R F * . D' L F L' F2 D F D2 L (14)
Insert F' R' F L F' R F L' at * to cancel 6 moves (standard conjugate cancellation)
Insert L' U' L D' L' U L D at . to cancel 4 moves

*Solution: L2 B' L F' R F L2 U' L D' L' U L2 F L' F2 D F D2 L (20 moves)*


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## Cubenovice (Nov 26, 2011)

I like how you got this 2-twist shortly after discussing conjugate cancellations on the chat


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## Zane_C (Nov 27, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> 20 move FMC
> 
> [22:50] <+Kirjava> scramble: R F U2 R2 U L2 D2 L2 F' L' F' B' L2 B2 D F' U2 R F' D2 F2 L' B' D F'
> F2L-1: L2 B' F' R F D2
> ...


That solution is incredible, the F2L-1 is simply ''. You've shown me that 2 twisted corners aren't as bad as I thought.


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## Attila (Nov 28, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> 20 move FMC
> 
> [22:50] <+Kirjava> scramble: R F U2 R2 U L2 D2 L2 F' L' F' B' L2 B2 D F' U2 R F' D2 F2 L' B' D F'
> F2L-1: L2 B' F' R F D2
> ...


 
My solution also 20 moves 
F2U2BF’L’U’FU’R’F2L2B2L’FB’U2FB’RF2
F2U2BF’L’U’FU’R all corners and 5 edges, 
R2F2L2B2L’FB’U2FB’RF2 2 edges swap , L5E.


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## marco.garsed (Nov 28, 2011)

> That solution is incredible, the F2L-1 is simply ''. You've shown me that 2 twisted corners aren't as bad as I thought.



I definitly quote  amazing solve !


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 28, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> 20 move FMC
> 
> [22:50] <+Kirjava> scramble: R F U2 R2 U L2 D2 L2 F' L' F' B' L2 B2 D F' U2 R F' D2 F2 L' B' D F'
> F2L-1: L2 B' F' R F D2
> ...


 


Attila said:


> My solution also 20 moves
> F2U2BF’L’U’FU’R’F2L2B2L’FB’U2FB’RF2
> F2U2BF’L’U’FU’R all corners and 5 edges,
> R2F2L2B2L’FB’U2FB’RF2 2 edges swap , L5E.


 
I note that these 20-move solves are sub-optimal by 5 moves, as the scramble is a somewhat rare 15f*.

Only about 1 in 437 positions are solvable in 15 moves or less.


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## Attila (Nov 28, 2011)

cuBerBruce said:


> I note that these 20-move solves are sub-optimal by 5 moves, as the scramble is a somewhat rare 15f*.
> 
> Only about 1 in 437 positions are solvable in 15 moves or less.


I agree, this was a very easy scramble, i do not want overestimate.


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## marco.garsed (Nov 28, 2011)

I post my PB... I've done it monthes ago with an easy scramble...

Scramble: U' F' D R2 D' U' B' L' D2 U' B' F L' B2 L' D' U2 L' R2 U F2


x-cross: U' B L' F' 
extend to double x-cross: U B2 U' R B' . 
third couple: U' B U2 B' R' 
L3C: U B U B' U' R' U2 R

insert at . canceling 3 moves B U F' U' B' U F U'

full solve: U' B L' F' U B2 U' R U F' U' B' U F U2 B U2 B' R' U B U B' U' R' U2 R

27 HTM...


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## marco.garsed (Nov 29, 2011)

I was trying this scramble...

D B2 D' U R' D L2 U' D2 B2 L B2 L' B F U' B' U' L' U R2 U' B F2 D

I found premove F2...

switch to the inverse

double x-cross: F R' D2 R D' R2 D' F' U2 (9)

I can't go on... after 55 minutes I decided to post just this... -.-''

I think it's a good start...

I often fail at continuations after a nice start... suggestions?


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## cuBerBruce (Nov 29, 2011)

Attila said:


> I agree, this was a very easy scramble, i do not want overestimate.


 
Yes, I figured you knew this was a specially picked easy scramble, and I am not really trying to belittle the fact that you and kinch2002 have found 20-move solutions. My congrats on these good solves.

However, I like to think of number of moves over the optimal solution as another meaningful way of measuring "how good" a solution is. By this way of measuring, there are probably several better solves from WCA and online competitions.

I note that what the Wiki indicates the unofficial record is 19 moves, and that was done by Mirek and Guus on a 18f* scramble. So that solve (both of them arrived at essentially identical solutions) was only one move more than optimal. I think it's highly unlikely there has been a 20-move solution on a 20f* scramble. (20f* positions are so rare, it is unlikely that one has ever occurred in an online or WCA competition.) So one move above optimal seems to be the unofficial record, and I would imagine several 2-, 3-, and 4-moves over optimal solves have been done in online fewest moves competitions (and two in official WCA competitions).

Looking back at Per's FMC web site (back as far as #250), I actually find only one sub one hour solution that is better than optimal+5 (disregarding solves generally thought not to be legitimate). (The 19-move solves were on #203.) That was a 22-move solution on #300, which was an 18f* position. The "classic" format (allowing a whole week) has a few such solutions including three 20-move solutions on 17f* positions (optimal+3) - #309, #348, #356. The two WCA world record solutions were both 22-move solutions on 18f* positions (optimal+4). I haven't checked through the weekly competition results on this site, but I would guess there are some more examples there.

EDIT: Looking back farther in Per's FMC web site, there was a 20-move solution (in half an hour) on an 18f* position in round #235 (optimal+2 sub one hour).


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## marco.garsed (Nov 29, 2011)

F R B' D2 L D' R U' F' U2 L B2 D' F U2 F' R U' B U D' F' B2 R2 B' 

x-cross: U B2 L B' (4)
extending to double x-cross: L D L' (3)
F2L-1+EO: R' D R' D R .F D': F' (8)
Leave 5 Corners: D' B' D' B D' (5)

. U F D F' U' F D' F' (8-3 = 5)

: L B' L' F' L B L' F (8-2 = 6)

L5C in 20 moves with two 8 moves insertions that cancel 5 moves... 20+8+8-5 = 31 HTM

full solution

U B2 L B' L D L' R' D R' D R U F D F' U' F D2 L B' L' F' L B L' D' B' D' B D'

31 HTM


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## Cubenovice (Nov 29, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> F R B' D2 L D' R U' F' U2 L B2 D' F U2 F' R U' B U D' F' B2 R2 B'
> 
> x-cross: U B2 L B' (4)
> extending to double x-cross: L D L' (3)
> ...



Very Nice but you missed an opportunity 
Your start:
x-cross: U B2 L B' (4)
extending to double x-cross: *L . D* *L'* (3)
R' makes a pair
*D : * F D' F makes F-1
D2 R' B R *B' *makes EO + pair
*B'* D2 B D2 leaves 4 corners with 1 twist

at . insert *L'* U2 L D' L' U2 L *D* to cancel 3 moves
at : insert *D' L* U2 L' D L U2 L' to cancel 4 moves

final solution
U B2 L B' U2 L D' L' U2 L D2 R' U2 L' D L U2 L' F D' F D2 R' B R B2 D2 B D2 = 29 HTM


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## marco.garsed (Nov 29, 2011)

> Very Nice but you missed an opportunity
> Your start:
> x-cross: U B2 L B' (4)
> extending to double x-cross: L . D L' (3)
> ...



WTF!?? congrats!

also if my skeleton is 1 move shorter!  I didn't see that solution..


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## Mirek (Nov 30, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> I was trying this scramble...
> 
> D B2 D' U R' D L2 U' D2 B2 L B2 L' B F U' B' U' L' U R2 U' B F2 D
> 
> ...


 

It's often easier and faster to find another good start for which continuations are easier.


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## marco.garsed (Nov 30, 2011)

> It's often easier and faster to find another good start for which continuations are easier.



thank you... although I wasted time for finding it... but I would waste time in unuseful searching of some good continuations too...


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## irontwig (Nov 30, 2011)

Imo knowing when to give up on a start and try to find another one is a useful but difficult.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 30, 2011)

irontwig said:


> Imo knowing when to give up on a start and try to find another one is a useful but difficult *skill*.



Fixed?

I feel the same, it is very difficult to decide when to abandon a specific start.
Especially something like a short 2x2x3...


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## marco.garsed (Nov 30, 2011)

another solve... I don't like it very much but that's what I found in 1 Hour...

anyway 33HTM isn't a bad result for me... it's my "average" if I can say this about FMC XD...

scrambe: R F2 B' L R' U' D' B' F2 L' B D2 L' U F2 U2 D L2 B D' B U2 B D' F2


2X2 block: F2 L2 F L' (4)
extending to triple x-cross: D R D U R D' U' B2 D' F' R2 F [B'] (13-1=12)
orienting two edges: * D' B' (3-1=2)
Leave 3 Corners: D2 L' D2 L D'. B D B' D (9)

. D2 B' U' B D2 B' U B (8-2=6)

all but 3 corners in 27 moves so 27+8-2 = 33HTM

full solution

F2 L2 F L' D R D U R D' U' B2 D' F' R2 F D' B' D2 L' D2 L D B' U' B D2 B' U B2 D B' D

any advice?*


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## Cubenovice (Nov 30, 2011)

marco.garsed said:


> any advice?


For FMC practice I reccommend using scrambles from the weekly comp or fmc.mustcube.net
This allows you to compare your solution to that of several other people.
You may find different starting blocks or (in case of a same start) better continuations.

Edit: when posting solutions for an ongoing competition always use spoiler tags and cleary mention the competition.


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## tehmaxice (Dec 14, 2011)

I got a fairly decent 33 move solution at German nationals, giving me a tie for first place together with Cornelius Dieckmann. Allthough not very technical, and a bit lucky, here it is:

Scramble:
R D2 F' L' U L' D' R U' F U2 R2 U2 L2 B2 L2 U' R2 L2 U2

2x2x3 block: R D' R' L U L D B F D' B2 (11)

F2L, leaving 4 edges: U F' U' F' U2 F' U' F U2 * F2 U' F2 (12)


Insert at * to solve 4 edges: F R F' U2 F2 U2 F2 U2 F' R' F' (11) 1 cancelation 


A bit lucky with the two corner edge pairs, and then finding some sequence that solved corners. With the time I had I couldnt find any useful insertion, should maybe have practiced it, since I've never actually done an insertion before.
Well, I'm pretty happy with the result anyway, and if anyone finds an awesome insertion, please let me know!


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## Cubenovice (Dec 17, 2011)

A nice 26 move NISS solution I would like to share:

Scramble R2 B2 D2 F2 D L2 U L2 U F2 L' U F2 D' L' F D' U2 B' L2
Spoiler alert this is the current speedcubers.de forum comp FMC scramble



Spoiler



L' - square
switch to inverse with premove L
R' B2 - pseudo 2x2x2 and 2 pairs
back to normal with premoves B2 R
L' U B - 2x2x2 and 3 pairs
D' L D - 1x2x3
F' L' - pseudo F2L-1 (add extra premove F)
U F' U2 F U' R U' R' U - L3C
F B2 R - undo premoves

L' U B D' L D F'L' . U F' U2 F U' R U' R' U F B2 R - L3C
at . insert B' D B U B' D' B U' to cancel 2 moves

final solution:
L' U B D' L D F'L' B' D B U B' D' B F' U2 F U' R U' R' U F B2 R = 26 HTM



I find than an early NISS check can reveal interesting options, in this case the 3 move pseudo 2x2x2


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## Tim Reynolds (Dec 18, 2011)

A while ago I asked about 4-corner insertions. Thanks to everyone who responded, I got a 9-move 4-corner insertion for NAR 

(reposted from MIT Fall)

scramble: D F2 D' L2 D' L' F D2 F2 U' B2 D' R2 D L D2 U R2 (18f)


Spoiler



solution: D' F2 D F2 R L F' R' F L' B R B' R' D2 L' U R D2 L' U' L D L' U L (26f)

inverse scramble: R2 U' D2 L' D' R2 D B2 U F2 D2 F' L D L2 D F2 D'
D R' U' L / D2 R B R' B' / F' R * F R' F2 D' F2 D (17 skeleton)
insert at * R' F L F' R F L' F', 6 moves cancel
insert at beginning L' U' L D' L' U L D, 1 move cancels -> 26

Can anyone find better insertions? I had about 7 minutes left when I found the 17 skeleton, I was about to submit a 31 solution based on
(inverse) D R' U' L / D2 R B R' B' / B' R F2 R' B (13 xxxcross), NISS -> F2 R F2 R' F2 R F2 R' / R F U F' U' R' (24 skeleton)


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## Brest (Dec 18, 2011)

Great solution Tim. I was very impressed!

Here is my DNF (35):

D F2 D' L2 D' L' F D2 F2 U' B2 D' R2 D L D2 U R2


Spoiler



F D2 L' // pseudo 2x2x2
R' U' F U' F2 R' F2 // XXcross
U' R U R' // 3rd pair
U R' U' R // 4th pair
B L U' @ L' B' R' U R U2 // L3C
D // premove fail
alg.garron

Insert @ [U2, B' U2 B] cancels 1 move

F D2 L' R' U' F U' F2 R' F2 U' R U R' U R' U' R B L U B' D2 B U2 B' D2 B L' B' R' U R U2 D (35)


FMC is much harder at an actual competition, away from your own environment.
I was trying to find a better insertion *before* I had fully checked this solution. Then suddenly there was 3 mins left and I rushed it. It would have been 3rd place!
A very good learning experience though.
There is actually a few different places that the premove can be inserted. I'm not sure if this creates any better insertion cancellation possibilities. I did not have the time to look through the whole solution as it was.

My 1st mostly-linear solution was 40. I found the pseudo 2x2x2, so I rescrambled with a premove.


Spoiler



F D2 L' // 2x2x2
R' U' F L' U L // 2x2x3
U' R' U2 R U R // F2L-1
R' F R F' // EO
R U' R' U R U R' // F2L
F U2 F' U' F U' F' // Sune L3C
F R' F L2 F' R F L2 F2 // Aperm
U D' // AUF / premove
alg.garron


I didn't write down the AUF or premove in my notes, as I wanted to look for a better skeleton. Another potential mistake to learn from.


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## irontwig (Dec 18, 2011)

Congrats to the NAR!


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## Cubenovice (Dec 18, 2011)

Congartulations Tim, Guus, Tomoaki and Agnar!

Tim - NAR
Guus - Dutch nationals winner
Tomoaki and Agnar for both finding the same 20 HTM solution to fmc.mustcube.net 376

Edit: fmc.mustcube.net 376

Scramble: D R' L F' B2 L2 B D' U B2 L F' D R2 F D2 B U' R2 L' F R D2 B F2 U' L2 B' U L
Solution Tomoaki and Agnar: D B' U F' L B2 D' R2 U' L' D2 L U D L' D L D' L' R' 20 HTM (6 move cancel insertion)

This is only *2 moves above optimal *(CE: L' U2 R U' L2 U L' D2 U' R' F' U' B D F' R2 F2 R' (18f*) )

And another thing;

How difficult would it be to create a piece of software that could check skeletons for all possible insertions?
I think this could generate some very interesting data.
- average cancellations for the best insertions
- for 5 cycles: is it needed to check all insertions for the resulting possibilities of "insertion into the insertion"
- inserting cycles vs inserting a pure corner twist
- just checking some existing solves to see if you missed anything- get better at comms this way


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## guusrs (Dec 18, 2011)

Woww, exciting weekend!
Congratz Tim for that NAR and splendid double corner insertion
Congratz Tomoaki & Agnar for that 20 move solve. Really smart solve. I feel ashamed with my 28 move solve. I did only spend 30 minutes on it this time

Hello Agnar, who are you? Where are you from?

I enjoyed dutch nationals yesterday. A really hard FMC scramble:

B D2 B R U F L U' B L' B U2 R2 D' R2 D B2 R2 L2 D' B2

I will post my 31 move solution later this week.

Gus


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## TMOY (Dec 19, 2011)

LolFMC at Magic Open this weekend. I won with 32, second best got 45 

Scramble: U' R2 D2 U' L2 R2 B2 D' L2 F U2 L' B2 D R D' B U2 R' F

After about half an hour I found this, which solves the cube up to a 3-cycle of edges:

y D2 Lw' D Lw' y L2 Uw2 L2 Uw' Lw2 Uw' z' y D' L' E2 L y' U' L E' L' U2 F2 U D (24 HTM)

So I tried to find a good insertion for that 3-cycle, and couldn't find better than inserting it in the middle of the 5th move, replacing the L2 with:

L U' M U2 M' U' L (9 HTM)

which gives a total of 24 + 9 - 1 = 32 HTM. Any ideas of a better insertion ?


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## irontwig (Dec 19, 2011)

guusrs said:


> B D2 B R U F L U' B L' B U2 R2 D' R2 D B2 R2 L2 D' B2


 
My lucky-ish 29 move solution:



Spoiler



R B' D2 B' U2 L D2 R D' R F2 R D' R2 D R B' D B2 D' F' D B' D' F R D R F (29)

R B' D2 B' U2 L [2x2x2+2 pairs]
D2 R D' R F2 [Pseudo 2x2x3+2 pairs]
R D' R2 D R B' D B.D' R D R F [Leaving three corners (That was easy!)]

Insert at dot: B D' F' D B' D' F D (Three moves cancel)


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## Cubenovice (Dec 19, 2011)

TMOY said:


> Any ideas of a better insertion ?



Hi François, congratulations on your win!
I would love to go through your solution but all the rotations, double layer turns and slice moves freak me out.
*I think I’ll go through it tonight*; first thing will be rewriting your solution so I can walk through it without having to worry about the orientation of the cube
*Edit: I give up, I keep screwing up notation in trying to rewrite*

For additional cycles for edge insertions you may want to check out these edge cycles originally posted by Guus

U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 B R2 
B' R B' M B' R' B' M' 
B' R B' M2 B' R' B M2 
B2 R B2 M B2 R' B2 M' 
B2 R B2 M2 B2 R' B2 M'

And Bruce’s remark from further down the thread:
M U2 M' U2 translated into face turns is:
L' R B2 L R' U2 But this can be replaced by any of these other 3 algs:
R B2 L R' U2 L'
L' B2 L R' U2 R
B2 L R' U2 L' R

However I would not be surprised if you know all of these (and some more)


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## kinch2002 (Dec 19, 2011)

Congrats Tim! 4 corner insertions ftw. In response to what Brest said, I think fmc is only event that exactly the same whether I'm in comp or at home. Imo a couple of events are easier in comp and obviously most are harder but fmc stays the same


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## Sebastien (Dec 19, 2011)

Very nice insertion Tim and congratz on your NAR!


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## guusrs (Dec 19, 2011)

irontwig said:


> My lucky-ish 29 move solution:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Very well done!


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## Julian (Dec 26, 2011)

2nd non-linear FMC

(premove L') B R2 F' L2 F2 U2 B D2 F2 U2 L2 D' U2 B R F U F R2 F D2

D U L' R2 B // 2x2x2
L F' L2 // 2x2x3
U F' U' F' L' . U' L2 R' F2 L' // finish F2L
R2 U R' B' R B U' B' R' B U2 // leave 3 corners

F' D F U2 F' D' F U2 insert at . cancelling 1 move

Final solution:
D U L' R2 B L F' L2 U F' U' F' L' F' D F U2 F' D' F U L2 R' F2 L' R2 U R' B' R B U' B' R' B U2 L'
37 moves in 37 minutes


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## kinch2002 (Dec 28, 2011)

R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

Premoves: F B2
F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?


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## Brest (Dec 29, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'
> 
> Premoves: F B2
> F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
> Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?



F' L' U L F R (U' R' R U2) R' U' R U' R'
I thought I was onto something but 2twist )=
Removing cancellations:
F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U L' U L F R U R' U' R U' R' F B2 (23)
I'm sure there is something better.


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## Cubenovice (Dec 29, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'
> 
> Premoves: F B2
> F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
> Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?



Another 2 twist:
Change *finish* of F2L:
F' D' R2 L' U L F U *F2 U' F' U2 F*
R' F' U' F (U R
R' U' ) R U' R' U2 R U2

Done in alg garron as I do not have a cube at hand 
I think your best bet is in tinkering with the final F2L slot and check the alternative endings


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## Attila (Dec 29, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'
> 
> Premoves: F B2
> F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
> Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?


 I like your scrambles 
I found a hybrid solution, i used your premoves and the first two moves:
F’D’
continuation with Guimond corners first method:
B’R’B
R2LFRL’U’FRL’U’ more 4 edges, oriented M slice,
B2L’B2R’L2U2 corners completion.


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## Cubenovice (Dec 29, 2011)

Attila said:


> I like your scrambles
> I found a hybrid solution, i used your premoves and the first two moves:
> F’D’
> continuation with Guimond corners first method:
> ...



Nice comeback!
Looking forward to seeing you again in the weekly comp!


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## irontwig (Dec 29, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'
> 
> Premoves: F B2
> F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
> Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?


 
Common OLL (I think) leaves three edges in 22: U2 F U F' U F U' R U' R' B2


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## okayama (Dec 29, 2011)

kinch2002 said:


> R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'
> 
> Premoves: F B2
> F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
> Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?


 
Quick skeleton:

Pre-scramble: F' B2

2x2x3 block: F' D' R2 (your start)
c/e pair: U2
c/e pair: F
Finish F2L: U' F R' F2 R
All but 3 corners: U' L F' L' F U F U' F'
Correction: F' B2

12 moves F2L (including premoves) + standard OLL.


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## kinch2002 (Dec 29, 2011)

Thanks for all the response. Just to let you know, I don't always get crazy nice scrambles. This was just posted on #Rubik by Yttrium so I thought I'd try it. That 20 mover I got a while back was also posted on #Rubik (by Kirjava iirc).


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## Cubenovice (Dec 30, 2011)

I would like to dedicate this 26 mover to Irontwig who once posted the corner flip T-perm:
*(R2 [R F R', u2]) F'*

I used it to solve 2E3C incl a twisted corner in just 14 moves 

Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 1
scramble L B U2 R' F2 U F' U' F' L R F L' D' U L B' F' L2 F' L' U' B2 L2 R2



Spoiler



premove B2
U' B2 U2 - square
B'. L'- 2x2x3
at . insert F for better continuation
U2 F' U F *U'* - leaves edge swap and 3 corners of which one is twisted*
*U'* - set up move (cancels)
D' L D' B2 U R' U' B2 *D2 L'* - *corner twist T-perm*
*U* - undo set up leaves 3 corners
*U' L D* L' U L D' L'- 3-cycle cancels 5 moves *D2 L' U U' L D = D'*
B2 - undo premove

final solution: U' B2 U2 B' F L' U2 F' U F *U2* D' L D' B2 U R' U' B2 *D'* L' U L D' L'B2 = 26 HTM

* in this position the corner twist T-perm will leave 2 twisted corners



I like to dedicate this 26 mover to Sune:

Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 2
scramble R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'



Spoiler



Premoves F’ B2
F’ D’ R2
U2 F U2 F2 U F – F2L-1
L’ U2 L of U L’ U L – F2L

Premoves F B2
F’ D’ R2
L’ U L F U F U F – F2L
Switch to inverse with premoves F’ U’ F’ U’ F’ L’ U’ L
F’ B2 – F2L
B’ U’ R’ U R B – good ole f sexy move f’
F’ U2 F U F’ U F U2 – good ole Sune

Final sol 
F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F - U2 F' U' F U' F' U2 F B' R' U' R U B' F

I had never expected that a scramble switch at F2L stage could be this usefull


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## CuberMan (Dec 31, 2011)

I found a 34 moves solution, but I think many people can get better than me 
scramble: L B U2 R' F2 U F' U' F' L R F L' D' U L B' F' L2 F' L' U' B2 L2 R2	
Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 1


Spoiler



solution: U’ F2 D2 B’ F R’ F D’ R2 z2 U’ F’ U F y R’ U’ R2 U R’ U R U2 R’ F2 L D2 F’ U F D2 F’ U’ F L’ F2 (34)
explanation: 
2x2x2 block: U’ F2 D2 B’ (4)
Cross + 2 pair F2L: F R’ F D’ R2 (5)
F2L #3: z2 U’ F’ U F (4)
F2L #4: y R’ U’ R (3)
Leave 3 corners: R U R’ U R U2 R’ (6)
Last 3 corners: F2 L D2 F’ U F D2 F’ U’ F L’ F2 (12)
cancel 1 move



I found 9 moves 2x2x3 block, anyone can continue it?
scramble: L' R B' R B F2 D' B' F2 L U' R2 D B F D2 L R2 D' R2 F' D' U' L F2
Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 3


Spoiler



2x2x2 block: U R F’ U D2 L2 (6)
2x2x3 block: R F R2 (3)


p.s: I'm still new to FMC, still using normal CFOP but I know blockbuilding and turbo algorithms (BLD corner method).


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## Cubenovice (Dec 31, 2011)

CuberMan said:


> I found a 34 moves solution, but I think many people can get better than me
> scramble: L B U2 R' F2 U F' U' F' L R F L' D' U L B' F' L2 F' L' U' B2 L2 R2
> Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 1
> 
> p.s: I'm still new to FMC, still using normal CFOP but I know blockbuilding and turbo algorithms (BLD corner method).



Good work for a newbie 
An FMC solve can (almost) always be improved, for scramble 1 and 2 check out both my 26 HTM solutions in the previous page 
Scramble 3 was my typical DNF...

In you 1st solution there are two ways to improve your result without making large changes to your solution:
1: you can save two moves in solving the last three corners: R B2 D' L' D R2 D' L D R2 B2 R' - always look for a set up move that cancels
EDIT: forgot about your cube rotations, your last move is actually B'
you can cancel one move with B' U L' F' L B2 L' F L B2 U' B

2: if you have time left you should insert the corner cycle into an earlier part of your solution.
Exept for some very rare cases you will always find some std 8 move cycles and you can expect to cancel about 2 additional moves.
You had 3 corners left after 22 moves so with an insertion these corners you may get to 28 HTM.

EDIT: your solution without cube rotations:
2x2x2 block: U’ F2 D2 B’ (4)
Cross + 2 pair F2L: F R’ F D’ R2 (5)
F2L #3: D' F' D *F +* (4)
F2L #4: B' D' B (3)
Leave 3 corners: B D B’ D B D2 B’ (6)

at *+* insert* F* U2 F' D' F U2 F' D to cancel 1 move for a total of 29 HTM


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## CuberMan (Jan 5, 2012)

Just checked this thread again... thanks a lot Cubenovice! I will learn and practice more about fmc..


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## Ickenicke (Jan 5, 2012)

I am having a question: Have anyone tried FMC at bigger cubes like 4x4? IF someone have, how good results is possible?


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## Julian (Jan 5, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I am having a question: Have anyone tried FMC at bigger cubes like 4x4? IF someone have, how good results is possible?


http://dtwoner.110mb.com/index.php?p=1_24_March-4th-2009-94-moves-4x4-FMC-


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 5, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I am having a question: Have anyone tried FMC at bigger cubes like 4x4? IF someone have, how good results is possible?


 
We had this as a regular event in the weekly competition for a while; if I remember correctly, the best results were a little less than 80 moves, and I think I remember having an 85 once. I averaged around 100.


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## CuberMan (Jan 6, 2012)

yeah, got a 31 moves solution PB on the weekly competition 2012 (1)


Spoiler



scramble: U2 R2 D R2 F2 U B2 R2 U R2 B' U' L2 F D' L' F2 D' R2 B2 R'
solution: F’ R2 U R’ U’ L2 R’ U’ R2 B2 R’ L’ F U’ F’ L’ U’ L2 F’ L’ F L2 U L B2 D’ B’ D B’ U’ L’
explanation: 
2x2x2: F’ R2 U R’ (4) 
2x2x3: U’ L2 R’ U’ R2 B2 R’ (7) 
F2L-1: L’ F U’ F’ L’ U’ (6) 
Finish F2L: L2 F’ L’ F L2 U L U (7)
OLL: U’ B2 D’ B’ D B’ U’ (6) 
PLL: L’ (1) 
U’ U becomes nothing, cancel 2 moves


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## Cubenovice (Jan 7, 2012)

*New PB: 24 HTM*

Repost from todays example solve thread:



Yuxuibbs said:


> NEXT: F2 D2 F2 D B2 U F2 R2 B2 U2 B2 L U' F L F L B' D L'



Dedicated to Daniel Sheppard who showed me the final alg some weeks ago 

F' U' D' L' - 2x2x2
R' D R B D2 B2- siamese
R B' R' B - F2L-1
F' R' F *R D R* - now we're just a D' move away from two flipped edges and three twisted corners
*R' D' R2* F' R' F2 D' F' D - THX Daniel 

with cancellations: 
F' U' D' L' R' D R B D2 B2 R B' R' B F' R' F R' F' R' F2 D' F' D = 24 HTM PB


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## emolover (Jan 7, 2012)

Is there a written guide on how to get better at FMC? Could somebody link me to it?

Here is an example on how much I suck at FMC.




emolover said:


> Scramble: D2 U R2 U L' D2 F2 D' F' L D2 F R D F D2 L2 U' B2 D' L U2 D' R' D
> 
> M U L2 B U z2// 2x2x2 (5)
> 
> ...


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## Cubenovice (Jan 7, 2012)

emolover said:


> Is there a written guide on how to get better at FMC? Could somebody link me to it?
> 
> Here is an example on how much I suck at FMC.



Wiki has info and links to more detailled info
In general; blockbuild until you have some corners or edges left, stay away from OLL / PLL unless you can use a short OLL to skip PLL or leave some corners or edges that you can insert.


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## ilikecubing (Jan 11, 2012)

Just some random FMC solves I did.

Scramble:R2 D B' F D2 F' L2 D2 L' D' U2 R2 B D' L2 R2 B2 F2 U2 R' L F' L2 F2 L

B' F2 L2 F'L'
D' L D' L'D' R'
D R' D R D'F D2 F L D'L' F'
D F'D'F
R' B' D' B R F L B D B' L' F' D2

40 moves

Scramble: R F2 U F' U' R' B U B F' R' L2 D R' B' R D' R2 L2 U F' D U R' B 

U' R F' R' F U' F2 U
D2 B D B2
F L F' D2 L2 D L D' L'D2 L' D L2 D2 L'
F D2 F' D'F D F' D' F D F' D' F D' F'

43 moves

Scramble: R2 F2 B R2 L U D R2 D2 B' D U2 F' U' L2 B2 R' L2 F2 D F B' U' B2 R 

D' F' D2
F2 u F2 u' F2
R' U F R F' R' F R F'
U R' U' R' F R2 B' R' B R2 F'
D' F D' B2 D F' D' B2 D2

37 moves,fine start with bad ending.

Scramble: F L R' U2 L D2 R2 U2 L2 D' F2 D2 B' F U L2 F2 R' F' D2 L U' R' D2 F2 

B R' U' L D2 R' U
D2 F L F L' D' L'
D' F' D' F D F' D' F
D' F L D' L' F'
B2 U B' D2 B U' B' D F' D B' D' F D2

42 moves

Scramble: L B' U R2 D2 R' D2 B R2 U2 D2 F2 R2 F2 L2 R' F' L2 U2 B2 D U' L' B U

B L2 D R U'
L' B D' B D L2 B
D' L2 B' L B2 D' B' D2 L2
D L D' L' D L
R' D R'u' R' B' R2 D' R' D R' B R B D2

42 moves,V perm 

Scramble:B2 D' R2 U' R2 U' L2 R2 D F2 D' L' F' U F2 L' B F2 R2 F 

L D' B' U B
R U R F R U' F R2
U' F' U' F U2 F' U F
B U B' U R2 F' U' F U R2 B U' B'
L F' U2 F L' F' L U2 L' F U

45 moves

Scramble:U R U' L F' L2 F' D' R2 U L2 B2 U D F2 R2 D' R2

L B2 R B2 F2 L2 U2 L' R U' L B2
L U' L F' L' F
B L2 B' L' B L2 B' 
D2 F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2 D

34 moves 

Scramble:R2 L U2 L' D2 R D' F' B2 U' B' L2 D B D' U F2 R' F' L2 F R F' U2 B

R B' U2 L B' L' D2 L B' L
B' R B
U2 F' U F U B U B'
U' R2 U R2 U R2 U2
R U' R U' R' d R' U R B

38 moves

Another 37 moves solution I found

R B' U2 L B' L' D2 L B' L
U2 R' U' R2
U2 R' B R U R' U' B' U
F R F' U' F R F' R' F' U F2 R' F' R

Scramble:R F D2 F2 D2 F' L' F2 B2 D2 F' R U R L2 F2 B' R' F2 B2 D' F2 U D L

D2 R' F R' B2 U2 F L B' L'
R2 D R' D R D2 R D
B R B' R' B R B'
D' R' D R' D' R D R D B' D' B

37 moves

Scramble:U2 L2 R' U F' B U B2 D U B2 U2 L R F2 U' R L D' L R' D' R' F B


U' L D' R U2 B' R B R' L2
U' L F' L'
U2 R U R'
U L' U2 L2 F' L
F' R2 F L2 F' R2 F2 U

32 moves

Some starts I got but couldn't capitalize on them

Scramble:U2 L2 R' U F' B U B2 D U B2 U2 L R F2 U' R L D' L R' D' R' F B

U' L D' R U2 L2 U B U' B' 
F' U F2

Scramble:R' F' R' L' D2 L' R F' L D' F2 L B F' D' B L D F' D' R' U2 L B2 L' 

L2 D'R U' F' U L' R


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## CuberMan (Jan 15, 2012)

Yeah, I got a 27 moves solution PB on weekly competition 2012-02
Scramble: R2 B' U2 B' F2 D2 R2 B D2 R2 F' R' D' U R U R2 F' D L' F 


Spoiler



Solution: L F L’ U’ L2 D’ F2 L2 F’ L z2 x’ U F’ R U R’ U R U R’ y’ R’ U’ R’ F R F’ U R2
2x2x3: L F L’ U’ L2 D’ F2 L2 F’ L (10)
Pseudo F2L: z2 x’ U F’ R U R’ U R U R’ (9)
OLL: y’ R’ U’ R’ F R F’ U R (8)
Align pseudo: R (1)
R R becomes R2, cancel 1 move
I only spend around 20 minutes to find this solution.


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## irontwig (Jan 15, 2012)

Nice job, but please use spoiler tags when discussing ongoing competitions.


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## guusrs (Jan 15, 2012)

Wonderful 21 move solution from Tomoaki Okayama on last weeks FMC competition on Per's site (http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php).
Congratz Tomoaki !

btw: more competitors on this weekly competition would be welcome. It als includes a unlimited-time competition and a 10-min-linear competition!


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## Attila (Jan 15, 2012)

I found a better solution, for weekly comp. 2012-02.
22 HTM, 18 STM moves, about 90 minutes. 


Spoiler



Scramble: R2 B' U2 B' F2 D2 R2 B D2 R2 F' R' D' U R U R2 F' D L' F
Solution: F2 U B F L F’ B U’ L B F’ D’ L B F’ D’ F B’ L U2 B’ L2
Explanation:
F2 U B F L Guimond first step, and 3 edges,
F’ B U’ L B F’ D’ L (U2) more 3 edges,
(U2) B F’ D’ F B’ L U2 B’ L2 L6E.


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## irontwig (Jan 15, 2012)

18 STM is just crazy good, bad luck you didn't find it within the hour.


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## Mirek (Jan 15, 2012)

guusrs said:


> Wonderful 21 move solution from Tomoaki Okayama on last weeks FMC competition on Per's site (http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php).
> Congratz Tomoaki !
> 
> btw: more competitors one this weekly competition would be welcome. It als includes a unlimited-time competition and a 10-min-linear competition!


 

Tomoaki's solution feels like magic to me. How did he come up with those pre-moves? They don't look like a perfect start. Is Tomoaki giving any advanced lessons? I subscribe!
Notice, he won by 6 moves (27 HTM was the second and third place).



Attila said:


> I found a better solution, for weekly comp. 2012-02.
> 22 HTM, 18 STM moves, about 90 minutes.
> 
> 
> ...


 

Great! It's nice to see other close optimal (or optimal?) solutions than simple block building.
Congratz Attila!


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## Attila (Jan 15, 2012)

The last month i got many recognition posts, thanks for everyone! 
I’d be happy, if more people would try to follow my CF method.


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## Cubenovice (Jan 15, 2012)

Mirek said:


> Tomoaki's solution feels like magic to me. How did he come up with those pre-moves?



I was actually amazed at the simplicity 
Start on the normal scramble: B U L D B F is a pseudo 2x2x2 + two pairs
Upon switching to the inverse scramble this requires another premove F
From there everyting just falls into place

But talking about magic: I just don't get Atilla's solve...
I can see the Corner orientation + 3 edges but from there it is all hocus pocus


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## okayama (Jan 16, 2012)

Mirek said:


> guusrs said:
> 
> 
> > Wonderful 21 move solution from Tomoaki Okayama on last weeks FMC competition on Per's site (http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php).
> ...


Thanks Guus, I found that solution in Shinkansen to go to Kansai New Year 2012. 

Hi, Mirek. As cubenovice analyzed, that premoves were found by using NISS.

Firstly I tried to solve the normal scramble with premove U':

c/e pair: B
2x2x2 block: U L D F

Then switch to inverse:

2x2x2 block: U
More square: R (wow!)

Then B makes pseudo 2x2x3 block (accordingly add B2 to premoves).
I did much trial and error after that, but no good continuation was found.

On a whim, I added F' to premoves. Then I found:

Pre-scramble: F2 B2 D' L' U' B'

1st square: U
2nd square: R
Expand block: D2
2x2x3 block: B2 R' F
F2L minus 1 slot: B'
All but 3 corners: D' B' D2 B (wow!)
Correction: F2 B2 D' L' U' B'

This skeleton is not convenient to write a insertion, so I slightly modified the skeleton (and premoves) in the posted one.

As I've mentioned here, it's a real pain to write my whole thinking way to find the solution every time. But if requested I do, like that time and this time.

Hope this helps.


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## irontwig (Jan 23, 2012)

http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=381&format=speed&metric=htm

I also have my doubts on his 1 hour Kociemba solution...


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## Attila (Jan 23, 2012)

irontwig said:


> http://fmc.mustcube.net/results.php?round=381&format=speed&metric=htm
> 
> I also have my doubts on his 1 hour Kociemba solution...


 
I have no doubt, stupid cheating.


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## guusrs (Jan 23, 2012)

Attila said:


> I have no doubt, stupid cheating.


Agree, no doubt, especially when you have a look at his (or her) 18-move 10-min linear solve!

BTW: congratz with your beautiful 22move solution!


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## Attila (Jan 23, 2012)

Thanks, Guus,
This premove-leave not a practised trick, just a random possibility. I was so lucky again.


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## Rpotts (Feb 3, 2012)

Petrus

Heise

Probably the best rigid FMC methods to start out with, Petrus first.

For FMC blockbuild an F2L-1 slot then try to reduce the cube to 3 or 5 corners left (skeleton), and insert commutators into the skeleton to solve the remaining corners. How you should solve the blockbuilding part is entirely up to you, and varies from scramble to scramble. Some excellent FMC solutions start with a short solution to all 8 corners, then hax in the rest of the edges and insert short edge comms when available, i.e. 6 move HTM R L' U2 R' L F2 versus traditional 8 move STM comms which will cost you in FMC, since the common metric is HTM. 

best FMC site


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## nickvu2 (Feb 3, 2012)

I'm just getting into FMC myself, but I'm using edge control and corner commutators for LL.

I don't know how to go about inserting the commutators into the skeleton though. It seems like if you track the LL corners throughout the solve, you'd have to determine a different com every step of the way and then find the one with the most cancellations. That can't be right; it sounds way too time consuming...and boring quite frankly, lol. How do you guys do it?


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## Pyjam (Feb 3, 2012)

You can get low moves count with ZZ too. 33-38 moves is common.

Scramble : F' D' R2 B2 D L' R U2 L2 R B F L2 D R2 F' U2 F L' D2 F

L' U L B' R L' D (7) : All egdes oriented + DF + DB
R2 L U2 R U L2 (+6 = 13) : Slot BL
R' U2 R U' R2 U' R' (+7 = 20) : Slot FR
U2 R' U L (+4 = 24) : Slot FL
U' R U' R' U' R U R' U R U (+11 = 35) : Slot BR + AntiSune


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## Cubenovice (Feb 3, 2012)

nickvu2 said:


> It seems like if you track the LL corners throughout the solve, you'd have to determine a different com every step of the way and then find the one with the most cancellations. That can't be right; it sounds way too time consuming...and boring quite frankly, lol. How do you guys do it?


Well.... that is *exactly* how we do it...
But you only look for the 8 move commutators and have a quick glance if first or last move will cancel something.
If they do you write it down and continue lookeing for something better.
(very first 8 mover I also write down in case I cannot find one that cancels)



Sahid Velji said:


> I have no clue how to do a decent fewest move solve but I am actually quite interested even though it's not held at Canadian competitions. To start, I would like to learn a fixed method that would have a low move count. So could anybody recommend me a fixed method for let's say 1 minute linear FMC? I only want to learn a fixed method so I can get the basics first and perhaps practice techniques such as block building. Furthermore, what would progression be like? I know that it is very useful to know as many algorithms as possible and of course commutator knowledge, but is there any other things I could do as well?



What Rpotts said 
Plus / go through the solutions in the weekly formum competition and the fmc.mustcube site



Sahid Velji said:


> Thanks a lot for your reply. As for Petrus, I don't think I should stick with OLL/PLL for LL because they require a lot of moves. Is there anything other than those that is better for LL? I'm thinking of learning and practicing Petrus and Heise methods to get a deeper understanding of block building. I will also decide to learn all commutators and I will go through all 378 cases to make sure I understand them. Perhaps I will do the same with edges. After all that, I think I'll get into FMC a bit more seriously.



Anything better than OLL / PLL: what Rpotts said 
For FMC you do not (must not) strictly follow methods. Instead you combine / improvise to make the best of the solution.
For instance when using “Petrus” or “Heise”
Both start out with Blockbuilding, then orient edges.
Petrus: EO after 2x2x3 block
Heise: EO after (or during) F2L- 1 slot
Both ways of EO are good to explore during a solve but you don’t have to stick to the typical finish of the method
For the end game Heise provides you with some good tactics for leaving 3 or 5 (easier to get to) corners.

So in short:
Blockbuild up to F2L-1
Then orient/permute as much as you can in as few moves as you can.
Then solve the remaining edges or corners via 1 or 2 commutators, preferably inserted into an earlier part of the solution.

Also read this:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques




Sahid Velji said:


> I will also decide to learn all commutators and I will go through all 378 cases to make sure I understand them.


In 99.x% of the FMC solves the std 8 move corners commutators will be all you need.
It is very rare to have a solution into which you cannot insert an 8 move corner cycle. I don’t think you ever need more than an A9.
An A9 is a std 8 mover with 1 set up move (would be 10 moves) but the set up move (or undoing of it) cancels one moves with the 8 mover = total of 9 moves

Learning / understanding all cases is good if you want to go BH on BLD


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## Lucas Garron (Feb 3, 2012)

Scrambler 1 from Berkeley Winter: http://alg.garron.us/?alg=&ini=F2_D..._D&name=FMC,_Berkeley_Winter_2012,_Scramble_1

I found this 12-move start:
L' U' L' U' L F' L2
U2 R B' U' B2
It solves a 2x2x3 block and a 2x2x1 block on the right, and even ends up with a remaining corner and edge paired. With an R' premove, that makes 13 moves up to last slot (with a chance at last-move cancellation).

I found this very quickly, and spent almost the entire hour trying to get under 30. Unfortunately, the position has a lot of flipped edges, and nothing worked: R' premove, R premove, NISS, various LS and LL tricks (I guess I didn't try too many insertions, but still)...

In the end, I found a PLL skip for a total of 33 moves: L'U'L'U'LF'L2U2RB'U'B2RUBU'B2'FRBR'F'R'UR'U2RUR'UR2'U2R2'
But that wasn't really satisfying, and only ended up getting third place for the day.

Anyone want to see if you can complete this scramble better than I did?


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## Pyjam (Feb 3, 2012)

Hi Lucas,

This is the best I could find :
F' U' F R U R' U F' U F U' R2
24 and 3 corners remaining.

Unfortunately, the best insertion I found is (L' B' L F2 L' B L F2) before the last R2.

At least, 32 is still better than 33.


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## cuber952 (Feb 4, 2012)

I'm trying to get better at FMC. I usually get low 40's. Can anyone tell me some things I could have done better in this solution?

U2 F2 B R F' D R F2 U R U2 D2 L2 U2 B2 R L D2 R D2

2x2 Block: R2 U' F D' R B R 
2x2x3 BLock: L F' L' F2 L2 F2 
F2L #3 + Comm: D' L2 R' D L D' R D L D' L' D' 
F2L #4: L' D L' D' 
LL: d L' d2 L d2 L d2 L' d

38 Moves


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## cubernya (Feb 4, 2012)

Any tips for searching for insertions (3C)? I'm about to start my weekly FMC, and want to try to find insertions this time


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## Rpotts (Feb 4, 2012)

put post it notes or stickers on the cylcing pieces marked 1, 2, 3 so you can more easily spot the 8 move comms.


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## cubernya (Feb 4, 2012)

Rpotts said:


> put post it notes or stickers on the cylcing pieces marked 1, 2, 3 so you can more easily spot the 8 move comms.


 
Thanks! Hopefully I can cancel a move or two off the solution


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## kinch2002 (Feb 5, 2012)

Every time I read this thread I realise that the video tutorial I painstakingly planned and wrote out would be really useful. Unfortunately my camera died and I can't really record easily with my phone camera so it's on hold for now Sorry guys


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## Jaycee (Feb 5, 2012)

http://fmc.mustcube.net/

The no time limit scramble : F R' F B D' B' U' F2 D2 U2 F' U' D L R' B2 F U2 L' R' D U' L' U' L2 U' R' L F' D' 

I got really lucky with my block, and the fact that everything fell into place after my F2L-1, and the fact that I learned optimal 2-twists last week. This isn't even my PB but it's my first FMC solve that actually LOOKS like an FMC solve.

Solution : *36 moves*, 3 off of PB


Spoiler



Solution : F D2 F2 R2 L D' B D' L D' L2 D' F2 D L' B2 L D' F2 D L' B L' D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B D L2 D' L B'

F D2 F2 R2 // 2x2x2
L D' B *D2* // 2x2x3 
*D* L D' L . B' L' *B* // F2L-1
*B* : D L2 D' L B' // Leave 3 corners and a twist

Insert at dot : L D' F2 D L' B2 L D' F2 D L' B2 (2 moves cancel)
Insert at colon : B2 D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B (3 moves cancel [B, B, B2])



So what do you think? Do I have at least some potential? I know I got really lucky  I don't plan on becoming serious for FMC for a while, but it's still fun every now and then.


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## cubernya (Feb 5, 2012)

Figured I should post this here as well. WARNING: CURRENT COMPETITION IN SPOILERS



Spoiler



Also, my FMC notes/explaination (the result itself is on the site; red was not written at first)


Spoiler



z
U2 L' F' B' L D R B' R2 B' D2 B2 // F2L-1 (12/12)
y' R U R' U // Leaves 3 corners (4/16)
F2 L' B' L F2 L' B L // L3C commutator (8/24)
RYB -> OYG -> WGO // Commutator cycle (for searching for insertions)


R2 F2 L B2 R' F2 L D2 R' B2 U B D' B' F R' F2 U R2 U' scramble

Rotationless:
L2 D' F' B' D R U B' U2 B' R2 B2 // F2L -1 (12/12)
F L F' L // Leaves 3 corners (4/16)
D2 B' U' B D2 B' U B // L3C commutator (8/24)



~45 min solution, and very nice I must say (it's my PB)
No insertions for the L3C though  If you can find any, please show it! (if it cancels moves)



Copied strait from thread. If you have any suggestions, please post.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 5, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> http://fmc.mustcube.net/
> 
> The no time limit scramble : F R' F B D' B' U' F2 D2 U2 F' U' D L R' B2 F U2 L' R' D U' L' U' L2 U' R' L F' D'
> 
> ...



I think that learning the 2-twist did your solution no good 
You inserted a two-twist and a corner cycle= 20 moves while you could just have inserted two 3-cycles= 16 moves.

Typical case of:
"When you got a new hammer everything looks like a nail"


Don't feel like doing insertions (as I'm on a very bad FMC week...) but here's an alterrnative ending with just two 3-cycles:
*B* : D L2 D' *L B' *// Leave 3 corners and a twist
*B L* F L' B2 L F' L' *B2 B'* - 3-cycle solves corner and moves the twist
*B'* R B' L2 B R' B' L2 B2 - A-perm

32 HTM 
probably better with insertions


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## Pyjam (Feb 5, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> http://fmc.mustcube.net/
> 
> The no time limit scramble : F R' F B D' B' U' F2 D2 U2 F' U' D L R' B2 F U2 L' R' D U' L' U' L2 U' R' L F' D'


Cubenovice is right.

My own solution was done using ZZ. I got it in 5-10 minutes. It's so simple that I thought everybody will find the same…

At first, I got 24 and 3 corners to rotate (not permute). I needed two permutations, but I got 6 cancellations when I inserted the first one. So I wrote it directly.

The complete solution :


Spoiler



U R F U D' R' D : (7) Edge orientation + DF+DB
R2 U L2 : (10) 2x2 on left
R2 U2 R U' R' : (15) 2x2 on right
(1) U' L' U' L U' L'	: (21) 2x2x3 on left
U R' U : (24) all but 3 corners to rotate
= 24 + 3C

@ (1) : (R' U' L' U R U' L U)	: +2 (6 moves cancelled)

So, we have :
U R F U D' R' D
R2 U L2
R2 U2 R U' (R2 U' L' U R U2) (2) L U' L' U R' U
= 26 + 3C

@ (2) : (U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2) : +6 (2 moves cancelled)


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## Pyjam (Feb 5, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> ~45 min solution, and very nice I must say (it's my PB)


Congrats. Nicely done and very clever.


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## TheChriskage (Feb 5, 2012)

How does switching to inverse in the middle of a solve work?
I get how you can do the inverse scramble, and then just inverse your solution, but not how you can switch in the middle.


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## Pyjam (Feb 5, 2012)

Add your partial solution at the end of the scramble, then reverse the whole. It adds the reversal the solution as premove for the reverse scramble. When you've completed your solution, add the reversal of the second part after the end of the first part of the solution.


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## Jaycee (Feb 5, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> post



Thanks !  For the current round on http://fmc.mustcube.net/ , I have a 22 move skeleton leaving, again, 4 corners, one of which is a twist.

F B U2 B2 U B' L2 B2 F2 R2 D' F' L' F' U' R' B2 L U' F2 D B2 F' R2 F2 D2 F2 B2 R' F2



Spoiler



L U' L2 D' F' R F' // 2x2x3
U' L U2 B2 U' // EO
L B2 L B L2 B' L2 B2 L B' // leaves 4 corners



I'm leaving the house for a bit so I'm just posting this here to save my progress.


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## Pyjam (Feb 5, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> I'm leaving the house for a bit so I'm just posting this here to save my progress.


Seriously ?


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## cubernya (Feb 5, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> Figured I should post this here as well. WARNING: CURRENT COMPETITION IN SPOILERS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Anybody?


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## guusrs (Feb 5, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> Anybody?


 
I tried insertions on your skeleton, but you're right no cancellations! 8 move insertion is optimal. Well done! 

But this turns out to become a very interesting scramble, have a look at the solve I just posted in the weekly competition forum!


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## nickvu2 (Feb 6, 2012)

Anyone willing to help me figure out what I’m doing wrong? This is my 2nd time using NISS, so I'm still getting comfortable with it.

Scramble: R2 F2 L B2 R' F2 L D2 R' B2 U B D' B' F R' F2 U R2 U' (from Week 5 of the weekly competition)



Spoiler



2x2x1: F L F2
switch to solved cube
Pre-moves: F2 L’ F’ + [inverse scramble]
continue with F2L-1 & EO: F U F’ U’ R F’ R U F U2 F2 R’ F’ L’
switch to solved cube
Pre-moves: L F R F2 U2 F’ U’ R’ F R’ U F U’ F’ + [regular scramble] + F L F2
continue with Last Slot & EP: U2 R2 U R2 U2 R2

Disregarding the last 3 unsolved corners, shouldn’t this be my solution so far?
(F L F2) (U2 R2 U R2 U2 R2) (L F R F2 U2 F’ U’ R’ F R’ U F U’ F’)
But that doesn’t leave me with the 3 unsolved corners.


Where am I messing up?


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 6, 2012)

nickvu2 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



You need to go ahead and add the AUF before adding the premoves, so:
(F L F2) (U2 R2 U R2 U2 R2) U (L F R F2 U2 F’ U’ R’ F R’ U F U’ F')

Note that this changes which three corners are unsolved.


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## kinch2002 (Feb 6, 2012)

nickvu2 said:


> Anyone willing to help me figure out what I’m doing wrong? This is my 2nd time using NISS, so I'm still getting comfortable with it.
> 
> Scramble: R2 F2 L B2 R' F2 L D2 R' B2 U B D' B' F R' F2 U R2 U' (from Week 5 of the weekly competition)
> 
> ...


See spoiler


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## nickvu2 (Feb 6, 2012)

Great, thanks guys! Are you able to explain why AUF is required for it to work? Every other step of the way, I feel like I stopped at arbitrary points and the block remained intact.


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## okayama (Feb 9, 2012)

nickvu2 said:


> Great, thanks guys! Are you able to explain why AUF is required for it to work? Every other step of the way, I feel like I stopped at arbitrary points and the block remained intact.


NISS is a trick based on premoves technique. If you want to understand NISS,
you have to understand premoves first. My post may help for that.
In my explanation, *... doesn't anything to the cube* is quite important.

Once you understand why premoves work, you may understand why NISS works,
and why AUF is required in your solve.

As a related topic, see also Kryptonite's post.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks, okayama - I had started typing a response to Nick, and realized that it just got too involved and I didn't have time, so I gave up. Your previous post is a great way to understand premoves. Nick, definitely read his post link above. Then also note that in your partial solution, since you left 3 corners unsolved, the 3 corners move around when you move the premoves to the end. That's because you didn't completely solve it.

Sometimes I find that an interesting way to look for insertions; you can either look for the insertions before you piece the whole solve together, or if you're having no luck with it, you can go ahead and put the premoves at the end and look for an insertion with that set of pieces. Odds are they're related somehow that I don't understand (so theoretically, it's probably no better), but I do know that I've had cases where I couldn't find a good insertion before adding the premoves on the end, but then if I added the premoves on the end, I was able to find a decent insertion - even if it didn't make better cases (I suspect that, although I don't know that), it did make something easier to find.

(I hope that made sense. It's so hard to talk about FMC in text.)


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## Cubenovice (Feb 9, 2012)

Regarding premoves before scramble or at the end of the solve to find your corner cycles:
It will be different pieces to look for but the net result will be exactly the same 
You will find the same cycles.

I always correct the premoves first and only then sticker the remaining corners.
This enables you to explore the full solution.

Extreme example:
If you would have 8 premoves and then look for insertions without correction you have 8 moves less to check...


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 9, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> It will be different pieces to look for but the net result will be exactly the same


I suspected this might be true, but I hadn't tried to figure it out to see if it really was or not. Anyway, as you say, you get the whole solution to look through if you correct the premoves first, so that's a good reason to go that way.


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## Pyjam (Feb 9, 2012)

In both cases, the pieces are at the same relative positions. They show different stickers however.

Theoretically, it's possible to have more than 8 cancellations after an insertion. If someone have an actual example, I'll be happy to see it.


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## irontwig (Feb 9, 2012)

All that means is that you have a crappy skeleton, though.


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## Pyjam (Feb 9, 2012)

I think so. But in case I'm wrong, I wrote here to ask for an actual example.


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## irontwig (Feb 9, 2012)

A=Leaves three corners B=Optimal solution to scramble

A.

Insert A' B at dot to cancel a crap ton of moves.


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## Pyjam (Feb 9, 2012)

It's not exactly what I ask.


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## okayama (Feb 10, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> In both cases, the pieces are at the same relative positions. They show different stickers however.
> 
> Theoretically, it's possible to have more than 8 cancellations after an insertion. If someone have an actual example, I'll be happy to see it.


 
I got 9-move cancellation by a corner 3-cycle insertion at Weekly competition 2010-21.
Does this answer you?


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## Pyjam (Feb 10, 2012)

Thanks Okayama. You did it! You're amazing.

However, in your example, correct me if I'm wrong, I see _only_ 6 cancellations at the insertion point : L [R D R'] + ([R D' R'] U2 R D R' U2) + F2 D' F'

I once got 9 moves cancelled (for a grand total of 13 for the last layer), but it was COLL Pi + PLL U, not a 3-corner cycle :
…U2 L2 [U' L] = end of F2L
+
[L' U] R U' L U' R' [U' R U' R'] = COLL Pi
+
[R U R' U R'] U' R2 U' R' U R' U R U2 = PLL U

Well, 16 moves remaining (for last layer) is almost as long as your usual solutions.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 10, 2012)

Pyjam, you should read more lines 

...L'
L ...


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## Jaycee (Feb 10, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> However, in your example, correct me if I'm wrong, I see _only_ 6 cancellations at the insertion point : L [R D R'] + ([R D' R'] U2 R D R' U2) + F2 D' F'


 
I believe he meant : L U R' U [*R U2* (L' L) *R D R'*] + [*R D' R' U2 R*] D R' U2 + F2 D' F' 

So 9 moves cancelled not including the cancelling L and L'. 

EDIT : Ninja'd >:O


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## Pyjam (Feb 10, 2012)

OK. Thank you.


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## spyr0th3dr4g0n (Feb 11, 2012)

Irish Open FMC Scramble: 
L' B2 R' U2 L' F2 R D2 F2 L' U2 L' D' B R D' R U' B' R' D'


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## irontwig (Feb 11, 2012)

spyr0th3dr4g0n said:


> Irish Open FMC Scramble:
> L' B2 R' U2 L' F2 R D2 F2 L' U2 L' D' B R D' R U' B' R' D'


 
Quick attempt:


Spoiler



B R' U' R B' L2 B R B' L2 U F' U2 F2 L U L U' L2 U B' L' U' L U B L' F' (28)

B R' U' R2 B'.
U F' U2 F2 U
U' L U L U' L2 U
B' L' U' L U B L' F'

.=B R' B' L2 B R B' L2


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## Ranzha (Feb 12, 2012)

I did this today:
U2 R' U' D' L' U L2 R' D L U' F U D' L D' F R F2 D' U F2 R' L2 F'


U2 D' B' R2 U' F2
B R2 D2
y x
R2 U2 R2 U' R' U R'
y R U R' U2 F' L' B' U' B L F
y z2 F2 M2' U L2' U' r2 U L2' U' R2' F2 (40)

Any suggestions? I liked the way I started =3


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## Cubenovice (Feb 12, 2012)

fmc.mustcube 384

scramble F B U2 B2 U B' L2 B2 F2 R2 D' F' L' F' U' R' B2 L U' F2 D B2 F' R2 F2 D2 F2 B2 R' F2


My final submission for the no time limit:
U L . U' L2 makes square - U is an insertion (4)
D' F' R F' makes 2x2x3 (8)
B2 L' L' B' D' : B D L B' using basic FRUR'U'F' OLL to leave 5 corners (16)
at . insert F D F' U' F D' F' U to cancel 2 moves
at : insert U2 B' D' B U2 B' D B to cancel 1 move
16 moves to L5C deserves better insertions 


But initailly I worked with this awesome start:

L U' L2 makes square (3)
D' F' R F' makes 2x2x3 (7)
switch to inverse:
B2 L' U' L' U makes F2L-1 with 3 oriented edges (12)

From here I was hoping for someting awesome to happen but...
L' D L2 D' L2 B' L B L' leaves 4C incl twist (21)
L2 D L' D' B' L2 B L2 leaves a 5-twist (20)
Found the exact same ones when returning to the original scramble 
Some others include 21 HTM for 5C and 18 HTM for 5C of which 2 are twisted...
But I had hoped to find something better.

Can somebody find a better continuation for the 12 move F2L-1?


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## Attila (Feb 12, 2012)

fmc.mustcube.net round 384.
Sorry, for my belated solution, i found this now:
Scramble: F B U2 B2 U B' L2 B2 F2 R2 D' F' L' F' U' R' B2 L U' F2 D B2 F' R2 F2 D2 F2 B2 R' F2 
Solution: B2 D’ B F’ R2 B U2 B2 F2 U’ L’ R B F2 D2 B U’ B2 L F B’ U R’ F R (25 moves)
Explanation:
First time i found a 10-move solution for corners, with EG method:
B2 D F’ U R’ F2 U2 R’ F R.
Switch to inverse: R’ F’ R U2 F2 R U’ F D’ B2.
The last 2 moves (D’ B2) i used as premoves on inverse scramble:
R’ F’ R U’ S U’ f2 r u’,
same, without cube rotations,
R’ F’ R U’ B F’ L’ B2 U B’ all corners and 6 edges,
premoves change to D B2, then R’ F’ R U’ B F’ L’ B2 U B’,
D2 F2 B’ R’ L U F2 B2 U2 B’ R2 F B’ L6E.


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## kinch2002 (Feb 13, 2012)

Irish Open Scramble: L' B2 R' U2 L' F2 R D2 F2 L' U2 L' D' B R D' R U' B' R' D'

My solution (28 moves)
On Inverse scramble: U' B (2x2x1)
Normal (premoves B' U): R' U' (3x2x1, effectively 4 moves)
Inverse (premoves U R): U' B F R' D2 R' (2x2x3, effectively 8 moves)
F2L-1 and some EO: B L B D L2 D' L (15)
F2L, leaving 3 corners: B' L B2 L' B D' B2 D (23)
Insert an 8 move comm somewhere to cancel 3 moves (there were 2 places)


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## irontwig (Feb 13, 2012)

Heh, that 28 mover was a lot more work than the one I posted to the same scramble earlier.


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## kinch2002 (Feb 13, 2012)

irontwig said:


> Heh, that 28 mover was a lot more work than the one I posted to the same scramble earlier.


Lol yes. I didn't see the 5 move start at all. I spent a few seconds thinking and could only see 7 moves so looked at the inverse instead.


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## AJ Blair (Feb 18, 2012)

fmc.mustcube Round 385 Solution



Spoiler



Scramble: U R2 L' F B' R2 U B2 F' U' D' F U2 B R2 B2 F L R' D R U' F D' B' R2 B U F U

D L F L' F2 (2x2x2)
L D2 L2 D (2x2x3)
B' U' L2 U B' L (F2L-1)
B' L' B2 L B' L' B L (F2L)
d' B' D B' D' B2 U R (Extremely Lucky LL)

Lucked out with the PLL skip...I tried to do some more complex stuff...like finishing edges and leaving comms for the corners, and several different insertions for the last pair of F2L...I'm happy with this whether or not it was really lucky!


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## mycube (Feb 22, 2012)

I found a great start at this scramble:
(current comp)


Spoiler



U' L' F' D B' R' D R F2 U' L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R' F2 R' U2 R U2 (the scramble from this weekly competition)

start: R´ F´ R L U B´ L2 F2 U´ R´ F U

but then i don´t know what´s the best way to use all the blocks.
can someone help me?

this is my idea:
L D2 L´
U F2 U´ F2 U F2 U´
D R D´ F´ R F R2


i just need to find a commutator and it would be a 37 move solution. is there a shorter solution?


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## Rpotts (Feb 22, 2012)

mycube said:


> I found a great start at this scramble:
> U' L' F' D B' R' D R F2 U' L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R' F2 R' U2 R U2 (the scramble from this weekly competition)


 
Please use spoiler tags whenever you are discussing a currently active competition. 

Although your continuation after the 2x2 is pretty cool, the 2x2 itself is much too long. Aim for about 5 moves for a 2x2 block such as this --



Spoiler



F L B' D' L2


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## Pyjam (Feb 26, 2012)

Last week mustcube problem (386).
Nice start but I could not find a really good insertion. Can you help me?

Scramble = D2 F R F' U2 R D' B L2 U' D R' U' L2 D2 F2 L' R2 B2 U L2 U2 D' L' R2 F' U' L F2 B' 

Premoves = (B2 R F' R2) : (4)
L' B2 L' D2 R : (9) 2x2x3 block
U2 B2 U2 B L' B L : (16) F2L
L @ U F U' F' L' U' : (22) OLL, all but 3 corners

At @ insert (L B2 L' F2 L B2 L' F2) = 1 move cancelled only.


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## Erik (Feb 26, 2012)

*24 and 26 at Altbier 2012*

This weekend during FMC at Altbier 2012 I managed to do 2 sub-30's in a row: a 24 and a 26. Hope you find the solutions interesting and maybe can help me find ways to improve them even more!

Attempt 1: 24 moves

Scramble: U2 R2 B2 R2 B2 D' R2 D L2 D2 R B U B' U B R' U
Inverse scramble: U' R B' U' B U' B' R' D2 L2 D' R2 D B2 R2 B2 R2 U2

I used the inverse scramble:

F2 U B2 L2 D2 for a 5 move block

F2 U B2 F L2 D2 for the block including another 1x2x2 -> premove B to get 3x3x2

B' to finish the block
U R' U R2 U R' F R F' leaves 3 corners (ok a bit lucky maybe)
R' F2 R' B' R F2 R' B to solve the rest

Full solution (for the inverse scramble):

F2 U B2 F L2 D2 B' U R' U R2 U R' F R F' * R' F2 R' B' R F2 R' B2 (24 moves)

* if you do R2 B here you leave 3 corners. Insertion anyone? 

@ Moderators, I created 2 threads. For each thread 1 so I can add notes to come.


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## Erik (Feb 26, 2012)

The 2nd attempt: 26 moves

This one started MUCH more exciting than the 24, it's at least as interesting!

Scramble: F2 L D2 R2 F2 D2 U2 R' D2 R' D2 F' L' D' L2 R' D U B' L'
Inverse: L B U' D' R L2 D L F D2 R D2 R U2 D2 F2 R2 D2 L' F2

I used the normal scramble, but for some interesting stuff you also need the inverse.

Premove: F2

D L (3 moves for a 2x2x2 block ), lots of interesting blocks here! I found this to continue:
F' B' U' F B' U' which is 9 moves (including premove) for a triple X-cross including EO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here I puzzled a long time to get something decent to finish, the nasty thing is that after: B2 R' B R you are left with 4 flipped corners....
This is the finish I found:

B R' B' R B R' B' R B2 R' B' R B R' B R B2 and premove: F2 

*Full solution*
D L F' B' U' F B' U' B R' B' R B R' B' R B2 R' B' R B R' B R B2 F2 (26 moves)

Stupidly I didn't try it on the inverse scramble:
Premoves: U B F' U B F L' D' 

F2 R' B' R results in a 13 move F2L, but again... those nasty 4 flipped corners


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## Cubenovice (Feb 27, 2012)

Erik said:


> This weekend during FMC at Altbier 2012 I managed to do 2 sub-30's in a row: a 24 and a 26. Hope you find the solutions interesting and maybe can help me find ways to improve them even more!
> 
> Attempt 1: 24 moves
> Full solution (for the inverse scramble):
> ...



Congratulations! Very neat stuff.
Unless I missed something there are no insertions to improve your result...

F2 U B2 F L2 D2 . B' U R' U R2 U R' F R F' R2 : B 18 HTM leaving 3 corners
The best I found:
At . insert L' B' R B L B' R' *B* to cancel 2 moves = 24 HTM
or 
At : insert R F2 R' B' R F2 R' *B* to cancel 2 moves = 24 HTM

EDIT: nice scramble, some other neat stuff although not as good as Erik's

premoves F D2
F2 U B2 F L2 F' - makes 2x2x3
L U L' - makes two squares
U2 L' - place squares
U B' U' B - leaves 4 corners of which one is twisted at 17 HTM

premoves F D2
F2 U B2 F L2 F' - makes 2x2x3
L U L' - makes two squares
U' L' U' L - create last pair
U2 L' B' U2 B U2 - insert last pair leaves 4 edges at 21 HTM (something for Guus or Atilla?)

Happy about the way I noticed the D2 premove, I found it after F2 U when checking Erik's solution for insertions (so before doing the B2 that actually completes the block)


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## guusrs (Feb 28, 2012)

Erik said:


> This weekend during FMC at Altbier 2012 I managed to do 2 sub-30's in a row: a 24 and a 26. Hope you find the solutions interesting and maybe can help me find ways to improve them even more!



Woooow, amazing Erik, and congratz with that NR.

I didn't have a look at the scrambles & your solutions yet but I certainly will. 

Now we have a real challenge at Twente Open .

Guus


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## mycube (Mar 1, 2012)

The last weeks I did a lot of FMC and learned stuff like Insertions and NISS. Here are some of the better results: 

30 Movesolution


Spoiler



scramble: F2 R2 D2 U´ B2 R2 U2 B2 L2 D F´ L´ U´ R B U´ F U´ L´ B´ D

R´ F´ D B2 L´ U [6/6] – 2x2x2 + Pair
R´ D B´ D´ B´ [5/11] - DXC
R´ D2 R D B D B´ [7/18] – Pair
D F D´ F´ D2 F D F´ R´ D R D´ [12/30] - EO + LL-Skip

Solution: R´ F´ D B2 L´ U R´ D B´ D´ B´ R´ D2 R D B D B´ D F D´ F´ D2 F D F´ R´ D R D´ - 30 moves



30 Movesolution - 2


Spoiler



Scramble: F2 L2 D2 B U2 L2 B R2 F´ D2 B2 L2 U´ L R´ U´ B2 D U´ R U´ F´ 
Inverse Scramble: F U R´ U D´ B2 U R L´ U L2 B2 D2 F R2 B´ L2 U2 B´ D2 L2 F2

Start on normal:
D L2 D2 L F´ D F L2 D – 2x2x2 [9/9]
. F L U´ L2 – 2x2x2 + 1x2x3 [4/13]
Switch
U2 L U´ F U – EO/F2L-3 [5-1/17]
Switch
D´ L2 D L2 D´ L2 D U – finish except 3-corner-cycle [8-1/24]

. = U F D2 F´ U´ F D2 F´ (2 Move Cancellation) [8-2/30]

Solution: D L2 D2 L F´ D F L2 D U F D2 F´ U´ F D2 L U´ L2 D´ L2 D L2 D´ L2 D F´ U L´ U2 – 30 Moves



32 Movesolution - *the current weekly competition-scramble!*


Spoiler



scramble: D' F' D R2 F B' R' D2 L' B2 D L2 U2 F2 L2 F2 D' B2 D B2
inverse scramble: B2 D´ B2 D F2 L2 F2 U2 L2 D´ B2 L D2 R B F´ R2 D´ F D

start on normal:
L´ . B2 L´ U L U2 D B´ D2 – pseudo-2x2x3 [9/9]
switch to inverse:
F´ D2 F B´ L´ B´ - 2x2x2 + 1x2x2 [6/15]
switch to normal: 
B´ L2 B D L´ D´ - EO [6/21]
switch to inverse: 
L´ B´ L´ B - fertig [4/25]

insert at . = L´ U´ R U L U´ R´ U [8-1/32]

inverse Solution: F´ D2 F B´ L´ B´ L´ B´ L´ B D L D´ B´ L2 B D2 B D´ U2 L´ U´ L B2 U R U´ L´ U R´ U´ L2
Solution: L2 U R U´ L U R´ U´ B2 L´ U L U2 D B´ D2 B´ L2 B D L´ D´ B´ L B L B L B F´ D2 F – 32 moves



33 Movesolution


Spoiler



Scramble: D2 B2 U´ R2 U´ R2 D B2 U´ B L´ F D´ B2 R B L B´ L´
inverse Scramble: L B L´ B´ R´ B2 D F´ L B´ U B2 D´ R2 U R2 U B2 D2

inv: L D B D B2 (1x2x3 + 2 Paare)
R´ D2 L´ U L´ D2 (pseudo-2x2x3)
U´ R´ U R´ U (after the switch to the normal scramble a 2x2x3 + 2 pairs)
normal:
U F´ . U´ F – EO + 2 Pairs
R´ F R F´ U´ R U R – finish except 3-corner-cycle

. F D´ F´ U2 F D F´ U2 (Insertion with 3 Move-Cancelation)

Solution: U D´ F´ U2 F D F´ U F R´ F R F´ U´ R U R U´ R U´ R U D2 L U´ L D2 R B2 D´ B´ D´ L´ - 33 Moves

another start of a nice solution for this scramble:


Spoiler



on inverse:
L D B D B2
R U R U´
D2 L´ U L´ D2 U R2 U
but I was not able so find a good end.






35 Movesolution


Spoiler



Scramble: U´ L´ F´ D B´ R´ D R F2 U´ L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R´ F2 R´ U2 R U2

R´ F´ R L U B´ L2 F2 U´ R´ F . U (pseudo 2x2x3 + 3 pairs) [12/12]
L D2 L´ (2x2x3 + 3 pairs) [3/15]
U F2 U´ F2 U F2 U´ (F2L-Pair3 + 1x2x2) [7/22]
D R D´ F´ R F R2 (EO + finish except 3-corner-cylce) [7/29]

. = F´ D B2 D´ F D B2 D´ [8-2/35] (2 move cancellation)

Solution: R´ F´ R L U B´ L2 F2 U´ R´ D B2 D´ F D B2 D´ U L D2 L´ U F2 U´ F2 U F2 U´ D R D´ F´ R F R2 – 35 Moves



35 Movesolution - 2


Spoiler



Scramble: B2 L2 D2 L2 U F2 U B2 F2 R2 F2 L´ R´ D F D B´ D´ L´ B´ D´ 
inverse Scramble: D B L D B D´ F´ D´ R L F2 R2 F2 B2 U´ F2 U´ L2 D2 L2 B2

on inverse:
. R B F U B L2 U´ B2 L - 2x2x2 [9/9]
R U´ R2 F U2 F´ - 2x2x3 [6/15]
R2 U´ F R´ F2 U2 F – 2x2x3 + 2 Pairs/EO [7/22]
R U R´ U R U´ R´ - Fertig bis 3-corner-cyle [7/29]

. = U R D R´ U´ R D´ R´ (2 Move Cancellation) [8-2/35]

inverse Solution: U R D R´ U´ R D´ B F U B L2 U´ B2 L R U´ R2 F U2 F´ R2 U´ F R´ F2 U2 F R U R´ U R U´ R´
Solution: R U R´ U´ R U´ R´ F´ U2 F2 R F´ U R2 F U2 F´ R2 U R´ L´ B2 U L2 B´ U´ F´ B´ D R´ U R D´ R´ U´ - 35 Moves



I know my 2x2x2s are to long.. Do you have some other tipps?


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## Cubenovice (Mar 5, 2012)

*Twente Open 2012, Three rounds of FMC *

Congratulations Guus and Okayama with your 25 and 26 (official) PB solutions!
It was nice meeting and competing with you.

My FMC scores:
1 38 HTM first official non-DNF on a crappy solve
2 30 HTM *Getting me joined 3rd place * there were actually 5 people with 30 moves
3 DNF couldn't find anything decent


Scrambles
FMC-1: D L2 D' R2 B2 D' U' B2 L' F' R D' U' F2 U B F' L2 B2 U2
FMC-2: U' B2 U' L2 F2 D2 F2 R D2 U' R2 B L' D2 F' L2 D R' F2
FMC-3: B2 F D2 F R2 F' D L B2 D2 F' U2 R F2 L' R D B R


FMC-1: 38 HTM


Spoiler



Scramble: D L2 D' R2 B2 D' U' B2 L' F' R D' U' F2 U B F' L2 B2 U2

on inverse with premove F2
L' F' D L D' // 2x2x2
F L U L' // X-cross
F' R' F' R2 U2 R' U F U // pseudo F2L-1 finds premove F2
D F L F' L' D' // OLL leaves 4 corners (not great but thought to make it a safety solve)
invert to normal solution: F2 D L F L' F' D' U' F' U' R U2 R2 F R . F L U' L' F' D L' D' F L 
at . insert R B' R' F R B R' F' to cancel 3 moves
at end add B' D' B U2 B' D B U2 to solve remaining corners

final solution 38 HTM:
F2 D L F L' F' D' U' F' U' R U2 R2 F R2 B' R' F R B R' L U' L' F' D L' D' F L B' D' B U2 B' D B U2

Competition nerves totally screwed my corner cycle recognition giving me more nerves, slowing me down etc etc
I should still look for possible insertions of the last cycle



FMC-2: 30 HTM


Spoiler



scramble: U' B2 U' L2 F2 D2 F2 R D2 U' R2 B L' D2 F' L2 D R' F2


R' B2 U2 // pseudo 2x2x2 premove F

switch to inverse with premoves U2 B2 R
F' F2 B' R U' F R' F // 2x2x3

switch to normal with premoves F' R F' U R' F' B
R' B2 U2 // 2x2x3
R' B R D B' D2 B // F2L-1
L' D2 L D' B D' B' D' // leaves 3 corners
D' B' D F D' B D F' // corner cycle cancels 2 moves with last move and undoing of premoves
F' R . F' U R' F' B // undo premoves
for 31 HTM

I wrote this down on the score sheet, double checked what I had written there.
Then solved without the corner cycle, stickered the three corners and checked from the end for a betetr insertion.
(I typically check from the start but I was very short on time)
Just in time I found R' F' R B2 R' F R B2 at . to cancel 3 moves for final solution:

normal with premoves F' R F' U R' F' B
R' B2 U2 // 2x2x3
R' B R D B' D2 B // F2L-1
L' D2 L D' B D' B' D' // leaves 3 corners
F' R . F' U R' F' B // undo premoves
at . insert R' F' R B2 R' F R B2 to cancel 3 moves

Final solution 30 HTM:
R' B2 U2 R' B R D B' D2 B L' D2 L D' B D' B' D' F2 R B2 R' F R B2 F' U R' F' B

Wrote the new ending on the score sheet below the old one, checked it twice and only then crossed out the old ending in the very last minute 

Afterwards I checked the full skeleton and there was no better insertion.
Sebastien showed a straightforward continuation of my 2x2x3 into 3-twist with 2-flip (one of very few LL-algsI know) for a 29HTM finish...



FMC-3: DNF


Spoiler



you wish


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## guusrs (Mar 6, 2012)

Another remarkable world statistic:

In the past 12 months only 3 cubers achieved sub 26 moves in FMC...... all from the Netherlands, Ron, Erik and myself (@TwenteOpen).


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## Attila (Mar 6, 2012)

Congratulations to all three PB. solution


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## okayama (Mar 6, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Congratulations Guus and Okayama with your 25 and 26 (official) PB solutions!
> It was nice meeting and competing with you.
> 
> My FMC scores:
> ...





Attila said:


> Congratulations to all three PB. solution



Thank you all, and congrats Guus on your win with beautiful 25-move solution.
Here are my solutions including AsR (3rd one).

FMC 1st scramble: D L2 D' R2 B2 D' U' B2 L' F' R D' U' F2 U B F' L2 B2 U2
FMC 1st solution: B U B2 F' U' B' L' U' F2 U L' U L U2 L' U L' U L' U R U' L2 U R' F' L2 F L (29 moves)


Spoiler



30min backup solution.

NISS solve.

(Normal)
2x2x2 block: B U B2 F' U' B'
2x2x3 block: L' U' F2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L F2 U L B U F B2 U' B'

F2L minus 1 slot: L' F' L2 F *
Finish F2L: U' L' U' L
All but 3 corners: U' L U2 L' U' L U' L'
Correction: L F2 U L B U F B2 U' B'

Insert at *: R U' L2 U R' U' L2 U



FMC 2nd scramble: U' B2 U' L2 F2 D2 F2 R D2 U' R2 B L' D2 F' L2 D R' F2
FMC 2nd solution: F U' B' R B' F L2 F' L D' L D L' D' L D L' D2 B2 F2 U' B L' D B2 D' L F2 L' D B2 D' L F2 D R2 B2 (37 moves)


Spoiler



(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: B R' B U F'

Two squares: B2 R2 D'
F2L minus 1 slot: B' U F2 B2 D2

I struggled with finding a nice finish, but couldn't find in time. :fp
The clock was ticking, and I decided to give up, and write a safe solution as follows.

(Switch to normal)
Pre-scramble: D2 B2 F2 U' B D R2 B2

F2L minus 1 slot: F U' B' R B'
More square: F L2 F'
All but 2 twisted corners: L D' L D L' D' L D L'
Correction: D2 B2 F2 U' B * D R2 B2

Insert at *: (L' D B2 D' L F2)x2
(the first place I found, searching from the end, in order to twist two corners by 12 moves)



FMC 3rd scramble: B2 F D2 F R2 F' D L B2 D2 F' U2 R F2 L' R D B R
FMC 3rd solution: B R L D R' D' L' D R F L F2 L' F2 U' F R2 F2 R2 F2 R D F U F B (26 moves)


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: D F U F B

2x2x3 block: B R * D U'

Again I faced with a difficulty to find a nice finish after that.
And I decided to break 2x2x3 block and do something as follows:

More c/e pair: U F L
More c/e pair: F2 L' F2
Back to 2x2x3 block: U'

Then continuation was quite easy:

All but 3 corners: F R2 F2 R2 F2 R
Correction: D F U F B

Insert at *: L D R' D' L' D R D'

I wrote down this solution in the last few minutes, and I couldn't search the whole skeleton for insertion. But Guus checked it after that, and found two-move cancellation was the best possible.


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## guusrs (Mar 7, 2012)

My solve on round 1 of Twente Open 2012: 

L2 U2 D B U2 B' D2 B U2 L R' D2 F R F' U F U2 R U F R2 F2 D' B' (25)

I choosed [B'] as pre-scramble move on the normal scramble. Why? I Explain later.
2x2x2 block: U2 D' B L
not happy with continuation so I searched for inserted moves, possibilities: L, L2 and L' before first move. L2 worked out best:
so: 2x2x2 block: L2 U2 D' B L (5+1)
pseudo 2x2x3: R' D (7+1)
undo pseudoness with extra pre-move D' (7+2)
So premoves [D' B'] F2L-1: F R2 (9+2)
switch to the inverse scramble with this start as pre-moves: [R2 F' D2 R L' B' D U2 L2]
F2L-1: B D (2+9)
many possibilities to finish f2l, I choosed for most cancellations on next step (ELL)
F2L: F2 R2 F' R2 F R (8+9)
ELL: R' F' R2 U' R' U2 F' U F R (12+9) -- 6 moved cancelled!
again one move cancelled with pre-move correction which gave the following edge frame with 3 corners left:
B D F2 R2 F' U' R' U2 F' U F R R2 F' D2 R L'@ B' D U2 L2 (20)
at @ insert U2 B' D2 B U2 B' D2 B, 3 moves cancel
inverting the solve gives the solution above 

Why did I choose B' as pre-move in the beginning? Let me explain.
- 3 moves make a pair on the regular scramble ( U', R2 and L')
- 3 moves make a pair on the invere scramble ( U, R, R2, L, and B)
Because each "pairing-move" can also be used a pre-scramble-move, there are 16 ways to start with a 1-move-pair.
These are simple too much possibilities to investigate, so I had to pick only a few of them.
Then I had a look at number of the bad pairs after the scramble. Bad pairs are adjacent corner-edge pairs that are wronly paired up. This scramble had 6 bad pairs. Which is about average.
I choosed B on the inverse scramble and B' as pre-move on the inverse scramble because this move unlocked 2 bad pairs while all other pairing-moves did not unlock any bad pair. 
This tactic is based on the assumption that less bad pairs in a scramble are possibly easier too solve, at least easier to find a good block build. 
I cannot prove this, purely intuitive assumption.
Since three months or so I use this trick to prevent getting lost in too many, good or bad, possible starting moves.
And this time it worked out very well.

Happy with this, a PB-2, I never did so many tricks in a competition solve. ;-)


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## Kenneth (Mar 8, 2012)

Nice Guus and congrats to your new PB, you really deserve it =)


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## kinch2002 (Mar 8, 2012)

Great solve - it's nice to see a good official result that has lots of cool tricks in . You finally got something that reflects your overall ability


guusrs said:


> ...Because each "pairing-move" can also be used a pre-scramble-move, there are 16 ways to start with a 1-move-pair.
> These are simple too much possibilities to investigate, so I had to pick only a few of them.
> Then I had a look at number of the bad pairs after the scramble. Bad pairs are adjacent corner-edge pairs that are wronly paired up. This scramble had 6 bad pairs. Which is about average.
> I choosed B on the inverse scramble and B' as pre-move on the inverse scramble because this move unlocked 2 bad pairs while all other pairing-moves did not unlock any bad pair.
> ...


This is an interesting concept I've not heard of before. You say that 16 is too many possibilities to investigate, but how did you know that using the B' pre move would unlock 2 bad CE pairs? It's obvious how you can see these things fairly quickly when just trying the 8 original moves, but switching to the inverse/normal moves everything around so how can you see what the result is without trying all the 8 possible premoves?


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## Cubenovice (Mar 8, 2012)

Just like regular pairs or blocks are preserved when appying NISS / premoves I guess the same would go for bad pairs.
Along the same lines: breaking these bad pairs and then performing NISS /premove would keep the pairs broken.

Big thumbs up to Guus for always sharing his knowledge.
He was sharing this concept at the competition with his direct competitors.
Even after "complaining"  that he should have never introduced people to NISS.

I think it would be great if the other guys would share their 30 move solution too.
I know one of Sebastiens solves has got a very interesting edge insertion


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## Sebastien (Mar 8, 2012)

Oh you mean my "L' M" sub30 fail solution?

The story behind this: I found a 3-edges left skeleton with 24 moves at like 57 minutes. Ignoring time running out I decided to go for it, stickered the 3 edges and wrote down the way to the 3-cycle on my result sheet already. Then I rushed through the skeleton trying to find a mediocre insertion and was very pleased to find a spot where the last 2 moves I had done cancelled with the first two moves of a regular 10-move edge commutator. I wrote it down, erased the 4 move cancelling and this was quite exactly the moment when Ton yelled "Stop writing!". 

Then I looked back on my paper and say, that after those 4 moves cancelling away there was L' M in the solution. Oh well, the podium would not have been so nice if I had seen this earlier 

I unfortunately can't provide my whole solutions, as I didn't keep my scrap sheets.


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## guusrs (Mar 8, 2012)

Sébastien_Auroux said:


> I unfortunately can't provide my whole solutions, as I didn't keep my scrap sheets.


 
You already proved it because I wrote your solution down on my paper just after round3..... (and I still got that paper)


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## kinch2002 (Mar 8, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Just like regular pairs or blocks are preserved when appying NISS / premoves I guess the same would go for bad pairs.
> Along the same lines: breaking these bad pairs and then performing NISS /premove would keep the pairs broken.


I should have thought about it a bit longer because now it's obvious to me that CE pairs are preserved when you invert the scramble. I kind of wish I had gone and joined in the FM fun.


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## Mirek (Mar 11, 2012)

Congratz to Tomoaki for his 25-move linear solution FMC#388 which is even shorter than his 27-move 1-hour soulution (not the same scrambe, of course). Is this an unofficial world record?


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## okayama (Mar 11, 2012)

Mirek said:


> Congratz to Tomoaki for his 25-move linear solution FMC#388 which is even shorter than his 27-move 1-hour soulution (not the same scrambe, of course). Is this an unofficial world record?



Thank you, but I got 23 moves in FMC329/speed.


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## guusrs (Mar 11, 2012)

okayama said:


> Thank you, but I got 23 moves in FMC329/speed.


 
Anyway, well done!


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## kinch2002 (Mar 11, 2012)

okayama said:


> Thank you, but I got 23 moves in FMC329/speed.


Wow  Also, 11 move F2L for Guus in that round - incredible!


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## Erik (Mar 12, 2012)

*MEGA FMC competition*

Hey all, for those of you who are interested in competing in a mega-FMC competition with at least 6 attempts of FMC:

It's important we find a date this summer where we are all available. Not many people appreciate the art of FMC so it's crucial we find a suited date!

Please mail (contact.akkersdijk [at sign] gmail.com) or PM me about your availability on the following dates:
1. June 2 and 3
2. June 9 and 10 (iceland open same weekend)
3. June 16 and 17
4. June 30 and Juli 1 (La Montagne open same weekend)
July (i´m on vacation plus Czech open probably)
5. July 28 and 29
6. August 4 and 5 (US nationals same weekend)
7. August 11 and 12 
8. August 18 and 19
9. August 25 and 26

It will be a 2 day competition in Enschede, the Netherlands with plenty of time in between attempts to discuss solutions and some other events to refresh our minds for the next attempt!


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## Mirek (Mar 12, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> Wow  Also, 11 move F2L for Guus in that round - incredible!


 
Right. And if Guus knew the optimal 11-move LL he could have gotten 22-move solution, an UWR in linear solve. Remember, he knows all 10-move LL algorithms.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 12, 2012)

And he mentioned during the Twente Open that's he learning the 11 move cases too!

I've never been a fan of learning algs but as I am currently doing OLL (~50) I just might do LL up to 10 next...

LOL at myself for looking up the 10 moves cases yesterday (and downloading the full 1100+ LL alg list).


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## irontwig (Mar 12, 2012)

Man, Guus is so crazy (in a good way, I guess).


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## Pyjam (Mar 12, 2012)

Mirek said:


> Remember, Guus knows all 10-move LL algorithms.


How many cases ?


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## irontwig (Mar 12, 2012)

40-ish that are exactly 10htm and about as many that are 9 or less ircc, now when you mention it maybe I should finish learning them, at least before Enschede if I can come.


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## kinch2002 (Mar 12, 2012)

irontwig said:


> 40-ish that are exactly 10htm and about as many that are 9 or less ircc, now when you mention it maybe I should finish learning them, at least before Enschede if I can come.


Linky please? If I go to Enschede (which I probably will if I have enough time off work), then I would actually have to think about learning stuff for FMC


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## guusrs (Mar 12, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> And he mentioned during the Twente Open that's he learning the 11 move cases too!



No no, I'm learning *some *11-move algs, not all!
Special cases like R' B L2 F L' . F . L F' L2 B' R (U2) (-;

And I cannot perform all 10-move algs for linear solves, I recognize them as an 10-move alg and often I need and extra cube to figure out which side to start, and for mirror and inverse cases.


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## irontwig (Mar 13, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> Linky please? If I go to Enschede (which I probably will if I have enough time off work), then I would actually have to think about learning stuff for FMC


 
o=Common OLL alg 
p=PLL 
3=3-cycle comm 
3*=somewhat weird 3-cycle 
*=other useful algs

R U B U' B' R' o
R U R' U R U2 R' o
R U' L' U R' U' L 3
R B L' B L B2 R' o
R U B' R B R' U' R' o
R U R2 F R F2 U F *
R U R' U' R' F R F' o
R U R' F' L' U' L F *
R U2 R' U2 R' F R F' 
R B R' F R B' R' F' 3
R U B' U' R' U R B R' o
R U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 3
R U2 R D L' B2 L D' R2 *
R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R o
R U2 R2 F R F' R U2 R' 
R D2 L2 F U2 L2 D2 B R 3*
R F' U2 F U2 F R2 F' R o (R B' R2 F R2 B R2 F' R)
R B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 R2 3
R B2 L2 D L D' L B2 R' 
R B' R F2 R' B R F2 R2 3p
R B' R B2 L' B L B2 R2 
R2 U F B' R2 F' B U R2 3o
R2 F2 B2 L2 D R2 F2 B2 L2 p ([Ra:U2][F'a:U2]) 
R U B U2 B' U B U B' R' 
R U B U2 B' U R' F' U F 
R U B U2 B' U' B U B' R' 
R U B U2 B' U' R' F' U F 
R U B U2 B' R' U' F' U2 F 
R U B U' B L' B' L B' R' 
R U B U' B' U B U' B' R' 
R U B U' R' F R B' R' F' 
R U B U' L U' L' U B' R' 
R U B U' L B' R' B L' B' 
R U B2 D B' U' B D' B2 R' 
R U B' U2 B2 U B2 U B R' 
R U B' U' B R' U' B' U2 B 
R U B' R B R' B U' B' R' 
R U R2 F' U' F U R2 U2 R' 
R U R' U' B' R' F R F' B 
R U R' U' R' L F R F' L' 3 [F R' F',M']
R U R' F D B' R' B D' F' 
R U R' F2 D' B L' B' D F2 
R U R' F2 B D' L' D F2 B' 
R U R' B' R B U' B' R' B 
R U L B L' U' L B' R' L' 
R U2 F' U2 F R2 B' R2 B R' 
R U2 R F2 L F L' F2 R2 F' 
R U2 R2 F R F L F L' F 
R U2 R' U2 B' R' F R F' B 
R U2 R' U2 L' U R U' R' L 
R U2 R' F2 L' B L' B' L2 F2 
R U2 R' B' U R U R' U' B 
R U' F2 D2 L B2 D L' D F2 
R U' F' L' U L F R U' R2 
R U' B L U L' B2 R B R2 p
R U' R' U2 R L U' R' U L' *
R U' L U L2 D' B2 D R' L 
R U' L' U R' U2 B' U B L 
R U' L' B2 U' B2 U B2 R' L 
R F' U' L' U F R' F' L F 
R B U B2 U' R' U R B R' 
R B U B' R' U' R' F R F' 
R B R' U L U' R L' B' R' 
R B R' F R B2 R B R2 F' 
R B2 D2 F L F' D2 B R' B *
R B2 R2 U L U' R2 L' B2 R' 
R B' U2 B R' B' R U2 R' B 3*
R B' R B R2 U2 F R' F' R 
R L2 D' B' D B L B' R' L 
R2 U R2 D' F2 L2 U' L2 D F2 p
R2 D R D' R F2 L' U L F2 p
R2 F2 R' U B U' B' R F2 R2 
R2 F2 L D' F' D F L' F2 R2 

From a computer generated list I got from Teemu, so some of them can be a little odd execution wise (like the 6 mover).


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## Cubenovice (Mar 13, 2012)

guusrs said:


> No no, I'm learning *some *11-move algs, not all!
> Special cases like R' B L2 F L' . F . L F' L2 B' R (U2) (-;
> 
> And I cannot perform all 10-move algs for linear solves, I recognize them as an 10-move alg and often I need and extra cube to figure out which side to start, and for mirror and inverse cases.



No, no; don't be so modest 



irontwig said:


> List



Thanks for sharing!


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## okayama (Mar 13, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> irontwig said:
> 
> 
> > 40-ish that are exactly 10htm and about as many that are 9 or less ircc, now when you mention it maybe I should finish learning them, at least before Enschede if I can come.
> ...


See also his post with 10-move alg and up to 9-move.

And some tips:

While I was investigating these LLs up to 9-move, I noticed you don't have to memorise all algos, like 3-cycles and common OLL/PLLs. If you skip them, it becomes relatively easy to memorise all 6- to 9-move LLs. 

Less well-known:

R U R' U' R' F R F' is a pair 3-cycle.
Lw F R' F' Lw' F R F'.

R B' R B2 L' B L B2 R2 is a pair 3-cycle with R conjugate (Fat A-perm).
R (B' R Fw2 R' B R Fw2 R') R'. So you don't have to memorise it.

R U' B L U L' B2 R B R2 is also needless to memorise.
R (U' L Dw2 L' U L Dw2 L') R', or
R2 (Fw2 D B2 D' Fw2 D B2 D') R2. You can construct it.


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## irontwig (Mar 13, 2012)

Yeah, one should really look for pair-cycles too and two alg combinations for that matter.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 13, 2012)

THX guys, I thought I had seen LL algs in this thread before and it seems I was right.
At the time I was not interested in algs but times have changed


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## nickvu2 (Mar 18, 2012)

noobish question: Do you all have a general strategy for transitioning from F2L-1 to L3C? Right now I'm doing EO + Phasing and just hoping I get solved edges and a corner, which obviously only works out occasionally.


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## irontwig (Mar 18, 2012)

My general strategy is building pairs and trying to EO at the same time or finish (pseudo) F2L.


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## okayama (Mar 22, 2012)

(From Japanese forum)

Scramble: U2 L2 B2 L2 F' R2 U2 B F2 R2 U2 R' B R' F2 L' F R D F2

Turn pre-scramble R2 for better understanding.

Orient edges: F2 D
EOLine + square: F' L' R B'
Expand block: L2 F
F2L minus 1 slot: D2 L D2 R
All but 3 edges: F L F' L' F'
Correct pseudoness: R2
Edge 3-cycle: F' E' F2 E F'
(25 HTM)

Nice as a linear solution, but I think there's better continuation after EOLine + square. Anyone?


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## mycube (Mar 22, 2012)

if someone is interested in first sub*whatever*:
my first sub30 

scramble: B2 D R2 F2 D L2 B2 F2 U2 B2 U F L2 D L R B U´ L2 F´ U
premove U´
B L D2 F´ D2 – 2x2x2 [5+1/6]
U B – 2x1x3 [2/8]
U´ F´ U´ F – another 1x2x2 [4/12]
B´ R B – EO [3/15]

Solution to L5C: 
B L D2 F´ (2) D2 U B (1) U´ F´ U´ F B´ R B U´

(1) = F D´ F´ U´ F D F´ U (8-3/20)
(2) = F D´ B´ D F´ D´ B D (8-4/24)

Solution:
B L D B´ D F´ D´ B D´ U B F D´ F´ U´ F D F2 U´ F B´ R B U´ - 24 Moves


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## Attila (Mar 25, 2012)

okayama said:


> (From Japanese forum)
> 
> Scramble: U2 L2 B2 L2 F' R2 U2 B F2 R2 U2 R' B R' F2 L' F R D F2
> 
> ...


I found this 23-move solution:
Your start:
Orient edges: F2 D
EOLine + square: F' L' R B'
Expand block: L2 F
switch to inverse scramble,
B R2 L2 F’ more 2 edges,
L’ R2 B’ L B’ leave 4 oriented edges,
L’ F2 R L’ U2 D2.


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## guusrs (Mar 25, 2012)

Attila said:


> I found this 23-move solution:
> Your start:
> Orient edges: F2 D
> EOLine + square: F' L' R B'
> ...


 
Wow Atilla awesome, 
I puzzled on this scramble & start too, but couldn't find better than 25 moves.


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## okayama (Mar 26, 2012)

Attila said:


> I found this 23-move solution:
> Your start:
> Orient edges: F2 D
> EOLine + square: F' L' R B'
> ...


 
Hmm, great, I couldn't figure out how you found the first 9 moves though...

Now I have a time, and find the following 23-move solution.

Scramble: U2 L2 B2 L2 F' R2 U2 B F2 R2 U2 R' B R' F2 L' F R D F2

Pre-scramble: R2

Orient edges: F2 D
EOLine + square: F' L' R B'
Expand block: L2 F
F2L minus 1 slot: D2 L D2 R (the same start)
All: R' F' R F2 L F' L' F' R' F R F'
Correction: R2


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## Attila (Mar 28, 2012)

okayama said:


> Hmm, great, I couldn't figure out how you found the first 9 moves though...


After the switch i tryed to solve the corners, my first attempt was: L B’ L B’( a simply Guimond alg.), then before it to insert „B M2 B’ ” moves (which does not change the corners position). Finally more an plus move solve the 8th edge.


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## okayama (Mar 31, 2012)

Quite lucky scramble from Japanese forum

Scramble: R2 D' L2 F2 U L2 U2 B2 U' B2 U F R B F' L' F2 R L' D L'

All but 3 edges: L D' B' D' B2 D L' D' L2 F L' F' D' (Found with premoves F L' F' D')
Edge 3-cycle: D2 R2 Dw2 B Dw2 R2 D2 B

resulted in 20 moves.


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## Julian (Mar 31, 2012)

Scramble: D R2 D' R2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 L2 B2 L' D R F' D B' U2 B2 U'
Inverse scramble: U B2 U2 B D' F R' D' L B2 L2 F2 D L2 F2 U R2 D R2 D'

Solution (on inverse):
U' B' R U B D // 2x2x2
R U' R U R' U' // 2x2x3
F' D R D' R F D R' D' R2 // Mess
U F' U' F2 R' F' R // F2L
R U L' U L U2 R' // OLL

Solution (inverse): U' B' R U B D R U' R U R' U' F' D R D' R F D R' D' R2 U F' U' F2 R' F' R2 U L' U L U2 R'

Solution (normal): R U2 L' U' L U' R2 F R F2 U F U' R2 D R D' F' R' D R' D' F U R U' R' U R' D' B' U' R' B U

*35 HTM*


The mess is because I was working on a pseudo-F2L. I figured out the premove, and went to solve the cube so I could rescramble with it. But then I got the PLL skip while solving


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## Mirek (Apr 6, 2012)

FM cubers,

I've not been following this forum for some weeks. But I want to spice it up with the puzzler I came up with years ago.
Generate the following state:
L2 D' R B2 R' D L U2 L
Now, orient the cubies in less than 8 moves and finish with a last layer permutation!

I will post the solution and one new puzzler like this a week from now.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 7, 2012)

Mirek said:


> FM cubers,
> 
> I've not been following this forum for some weeks. But I want to spice it up with the puzzler I came up with years ago.
> Generate the following state:
> ...


 


Spoiler



U F U F' U'
J Perm


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## okayama (Apr 7, 2012)

Mirek said:


> FM cubers,
> 
> I've not been following this forum for some weeks. But I want to spice it up with the puzzler I came up with years ago.
> Generate the following state:
> ...


 
Hmm? I cannot understand what to do exactly...
I know the LL alg, but should I solve it in another way?


Spoiler



Scramble: L2 D' R B2 R' D L U2 L

Turn pre-scramble R' for better understanding.

Pseudo F2L: R
LL: F' (U B' Dw2 B U' B' Dw2 B) F
Correct pseudoness: R'


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## Mirek (Apr 7, 2012)

okayama said:


> Hmm? I cannot understand what to do exactly...
> I know the LL alg, but should I solve it in another way?
> 
> 
> ...


 

No, this is not the right solution. It must be a linear solve. No pre-moves allowed.


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## okayama (Apr 7, 2012)

Mirek said:


> No, this is not the right solution. It must be a linear solve. No pre-moves allowed.


 
Actually it was a linear solve... premove was not needed.

I still don't understand what you intended and what purpose would that serve. :confused:
So I will wait your solution, it may answer my question.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 7, 2012)

okayama said:


> I still don't understand what you intended and what purpose would that serve. :confused:
> So I will wait your solution, it may answer my question.



If I understand correctly the challenge is to leave a PLL in less than an 8 moves.


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## Rpotts (Apr 7, 2012)

This used to be in Faz's signature, titled "4 move OLL" or something, linking to alg.garron, it's pretty cool.


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## Mirek (Apr 7, 2012)

okayama said:


> Actually it was a linear solve... premove was not needed.
> 
> I still don't understand what you intended and what purpose would that serve. :confused:
> So I will wait your solution, it may answer my question.


 

Cubenovice understands it correctly. You can also peek into kinch2002's correct solution if you want.


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## okayama (Apr 7, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> If I understand correctly the challenge is to leave a PLL in less than an 8 moves.





Spoiler



For example,

Scramble: R B' R Uw2 R' B R Uw2 R2 B

can be solved as follows:

Pseudo OLL: L R'
T-perm: (UF <-> UB, UFR <->ULF)
Correct pseudoness: L' R

in the same way as my previous post.
According to Mirek, such a solution is not allowed, but L R' actually orients cubies and the rest is solved by PLL.
I couldn't understand the profit by banning such a solution...


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## Sebastien (Apr 7, 2012)

Got another 27 today at Danish Open, 5th official 27, 11th official sub30 

Scramble: R2 D' B2 D' B2 U L2 R2 B2 U' R B L B R B' R F2 U'

after <10 minute I found this awesome start on the normal scramble: D U2 B' R' D' U' * L F2 D' F2 D'

This is what I did with that (and I'd really be interested if anyone of you can find a better ending):

(1) L F' R' F L' F D R' D' R (3 corners in 21 moves)

* = D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U2 L (2 move cancelation)

makes 27 moves

(2) apply R' to finish Triple X-Cross and switch to inverse: F R F2 D' F' D F D R' D' F2

So 23 moves to 3-cycle: D U2 B' R' D' U' L F2 D' F2 D' R' F2 . D R D' F' D' F : D F2 R' F' 

. = F2 D B D' F2 D B' D' or 
: = F' D' B' D F D' B D

gives 4 moves cancellation and gives 27 moves solution.


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## Mirek (Apr 7, 2012)

okayama said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

You have to have f2l, not just a pseudo f2l. Your scramble also have such a solution within 7 moves.


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## Julian (Apr 7, 2012)

Mirek said:


> You have to have f2l, not just a pseudo f2l. Your scramble also have such a solution within 7 moves.


Solution for F2L + OLL?


Spoiler



L R' U2 L' R


Or did you mean a full solution?


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## Mirek (Apr 7, 2012)

Julian said:


> Solution for F2L + OLL?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 
You got it. This one is too obvious.


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## Kenneth (Apr 8, 2012)

Mirek said:


> ... This one is too obvious.



Don't say that, I failed :/


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## Mirek (Apr 8, 2012)

*One more LL puzzler*

I decided not to wait a week and post a second one.
Generate the following position:
F' U2 F L' F' L U2 L' F L
Starting from there, orient the cubies in less than 8 moves and finish with permutation J. 
A pseudo f2l is not allowed here.


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## Lid (Apr 8, 2012)

Spoiler



x y R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2 or U2 F U2 F U2 F2 U2 without rotations...


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## Pyjam (Apr 8, 2012)

Scramble = B2 L' F2 L2 B2 R D2 R2 B2 U2 F D B F2 L F' U L' B2 F2

I found this incredible start :

Pre-scramble : U F' (2)
Start : L' U' D L' (6)

This build a 2x2x3 block and 3 pairs. Too bad, it doesn't prepare the coffee too.

After this, I switched to the reverse scramble.

Pre-scramble : L D' U L (4)
F @ U' : (6) 2x2x3 block + 3 pairs
L' D L2 B L' D2 : (12) F2L -1 slot
x' U B U' B' R' U' R U2 : (20) All but 3 corners.

At @ insert (R2 U' L U R2 U' L' U) : (25) 3 moves cancelled.

Solution for reverse scramble:
F R2 U' L U R2 U' L2 D L2 B L' D2 B D B' D' R' B' R B2 L D' U L

I wonder if there is a better continuation after the first 6 moves.
Waiting for your analysis. Thanks.


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## Kenneth (Apr 8, 2012)

Mirek said:


> F' U2 F L' F' L U2 L' F L





Spoiler



Orient : (xy) R2 U R2 U R2 U2 (R2)
J-perm : R' L U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R'

One cancled move 

If I did not know the solution for the previous round this would have been much harder to figure.


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## Sebastien (Apr 10, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> This is what I did with that (and *I'd really be interested if anyone of you can find a better ending*):


 
Did noone try it?


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## Pyjam (Apr 11, 2012)

I found nothing better, and I'm hoping myself for an answer.


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## Mirek (Apr 11, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> Did noone try it?


 
I tried shortly and no luck.


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## okayama (Apr 11, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> Scramble = B2 L' F2 L2 B2 R D2 R2 B2 U2 F D B F2 L F' U L' B2 F2
> 
> I found this incredible start :
> 
> ...



Pre-scramble: L B' U F'

Pseudo 2x2x3 block: L' U' D L' (your start)
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 D2 L B' L2
All but 3 corners: D2 B' D B
Correction: L B' U F'

Too lazy to find an insertion.


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## Pyjam (Apr 11, 2012)

okayama said:


> Pre-scramble: L B' U F'
> 
> Pseudo 2x2x3 block: L' U' D L' (your start)
> F2L minus 1 slot: B2 D2 L B' L2
> ...


Great news. A fantastic insertion can be done in the premove. Let's see:

Your solution : L' U' D L' B2 D2 L B' L2 D2 B' D B L @ B' U F'
At @ insert : (B U F' U' B2 U F' U' B) : +9 moves but 6 moves cancelled in the end !

So, this is the 20-move solution for reverse scramble :
L' D U' L' B2 D2 L B' L2 D2 B' D B L B U F' U' B2 U

Awesome ! Many thanks.


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 11, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> Great news. A fantastic insertion can be done in the premove. Let's see:
> 
> Your solution : L' U' D L' B2 D2 L B' L2 D2 B' D B L @ B' U F'
> At @ insert : (B U F' U' B2 U *F* U' B) : +9 moves but 6 moves cancelled in the end !
> ...


 
No need for a 9-mover. Inserting an 8-mover (B2 U F' U' B2 U F U') after the B' gives the same result.


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## Pyjam (Apr 11, 2012)

Sorry. I mean the *backward* scramble, of course.

For the insertion, I did it this way because I saw it before the B' was done.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 11, 2012)

Weekly comp ragequit on an 11 move F2L-1 with edges oriented...
Generator for cube state: U R2 U' R F' U2 R' U2 R U2 F R2 U R' U' 

I hate it when the edges are permuted like this...
Can anyone find a good way to leave some corners?


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 11, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> Sorry. I mean the *backward* scramble, of course.


 
You mean the "forward" scramble, right?


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## irontwig (Apr 11, 2012)

R2 B' R' B R2 Leaves 2C2E...


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## Pyjam (Apr 11, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Weekly comp ragequit on an 11 move F2L-1 with edges oriented...
> Generator for cube state: U R2 U' R F' U2 R' U2 R U2 F R2 U R' U'
> 
> I hate it when the edges are permuted like this...
> Can anyone find a good way to leave some corners?





Spoiler: Cube -3 corners = +12 HTM



z' y R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2 U R' U' @ R U2
@ = (F' L F R F' L' F R')


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## Cubenovice (Apr 11, 2012)

irontwig said:


> R2 B' R' B R2 Leaves 2C2E...



I actually have R2 B' R' B on my notes page as a possible continuation :fp
I have never done 2C2E insertions so I totally looked over it.
Note to self: ALWAYS AUF to see what exactly is left...



Pyjam said:


> Spoiler: Cube -3 corners = +12 HTM
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Breaking up the block = win
I have never done this but definitely keep this in mind for the future

*THX a lot guys, this has been a great help.*

I will try my first 2C2E insertion tonight. I recently learned some 2C2E LL algs, now lets see if I can identify them in "sticker" mode.


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## Mirek (Apr 12, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> I actually have R2 B' R' B on my notes page as a possible continuation :fp
> I have never done 2C2E insertions so I totally looked over it.
> Note to self: ALWAYS AUF to see what exactly is left...
> 
> ...


 

For anybody who wants to explore 2C2E algorithms, I have a collection of (most likely) all of such of length 13 QTM and almost all of 15 QTM. I came up with this collection 15 years ago and earlier without help of a computer. They are alphabetically sorted in their "minimal" form. Two algorithms are considered equivalent if they can be transformed into one another by mirror symmetry, inverse, or cyclic reordering (for example, UR'B is equivalent to BUR' and to RU'B' and to L'UB, and so on).
The link is http://ws2.binghamton.edu/fridrich/c2e2.html
All you need is to translate notation A,B,C,D,E,F to U,R,D,L,B,F, respectively.
Some o these algoritms (not all) are very useful when doing insertions for FMC. I am not aware of any other such collection. Anybody?


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## Cubenovice (Apr 12, 2012)

Hi Mirek,

thank you for reminding me about your lists on the fridrich site.
There have been several posts in this thread with lists of LL algs up to 10 moves, obviously some of these are 2C2E.
Recently there was a thread by aronpm about 22LL which links to this page: http://aronpm.cubing.net/22ll/


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## Mirek (Apr 13, 2012)

*Puzzlers*

Here are the solutions for the two puzzlers I posted last week. 

Scramble: L2 D' R B2 R' D L U2 L
Orient the cubies in less than 8 moves and leave a PLL (last layer permutation).
Solution: U F U F' U'

Thanks Rpotts for mentioning this being in Faz's signature. I didn't know about it.

Scramble: F' U2 F L' F' L U2 L' F L
Orient the cubies in less than 8 moves and leave permutation J. 
Solution: U2 F U2 F U2 F2 U2 (7), finish with J
( R2 F' R2 F' R2 F2 R2 (7), would finish with Y )

Now, when you know the principle, you can solve the third one. This one is tough if you had no idea about the trick involved. 
Scramble: R U2 B' R' U' R U B2 U' B' U' R'
Orient the cubies in less than 10 moves and leave a PLL. 
A pseudo f2l is again not allowed here.


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## irontwig (Apr 13, 2012)

Not sure what you mean by "trick", but I just looked at what F2L looked easy to finish:



Spoiler



U' F U R U' R' U F' U'
L U F U' F' L' Leaves a nice LL too


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## Cubenovice (Apr 15, 2012)

fmc.mustcube# 393 
F2 L U D' F U' B L F L2 R F B R2 B' L' D2 L2 F2 U B' F R2 U2 L' U D2 B2 L2 R
forgot that the comp ends on sat night...

*Human Thistlethwaite PB 31 HTM*

On inverse scramble
U’ D’ B // Edge orientation (3)
U L D2 L’ // place edges, orient all but two corners (7)
// at this stage cycling three corners orients and separates all corners
// stickered the cycle and solved with random commutator, to insert later (15)
U’ L2 D’ L2 D2 B2 D’ B2 // pair up corners (23)
D’ F2 B2 U’ F2 B2 // fix bad edges leaves edge cycle and H-perm (29)
F’ B L2 B’ F U2 // leaves H-perm (33)

To finish my typical approach would be: insert corner cycle, then look for an insertion for a shorter 2+2 edge swap

But without the corner cycle solved check out the cube state at:
U’ D’ . B U L D2 L’ U’ L2 D’ L2 D2 B2 D’ B2 D’ F2 B2 U’ // off by B2, an edge cycle and a *different* corner cycle.
B’ F’ L2 B’ F U2 // solve edges leave 3 corners (25)
At . insert D2 B’ U2 B D2 B’ U2 B to cancel 2 moves (31)

Final solution for inverse scramble:
U’ D B’ U2 B D2 B’ U2 B2 U L D2 L’ U’ L2 D’ L2 D2 B2 D’ B2 D’ F2 B2 U’ B’ F’ L2 B’ F U2 = 31 HTM

http://tinyurl.com/algU-DB-U2BD2B


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## irontwig (Apr 16, 2012)

Found solutions of the same length (30 moves) to both the 1h and 10 minute linear of Fredlund's current FMC round (394). The 1h had a 2C2E insertion, while the 10 minute one had a 8 move LL.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 16, 2012)

DOH!!!!

working on what just may be my first sub 30 HTA solve:
7 HTM for orienting edges and corners (7)
corner cycle to separate and prepare for 3 move pairing; to be inserted (~6)
F2 R2 B2 to pair up corners (10)
Edge cycle; to be inserted (~6)
D U2 (13)
2+2 swap; to be inserted (~6)
There are actually two edge cycles to try, leaving a different 2+2 swap
This may be the one 

Then I see that my awesome orientation start is exactly the inverse of the last 7 moves of the scramble...
I can explain every single move with my typical HTA approach (because actually 10 moves with 3 cancel) but it sure takes away some of the magic.
Don't even feel like finishing right now...


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## kinch2002 (Apr 16, 2012)

Rapid Dash Open 2012: D2 B' U' R2 L D2 L2 U2 B2 R' F D' R2 B2 U2 R' D2 F2 (18f)
Note: not actual scramble - reconstructed it from my solution.

My *26 move* solution 
Premoves B L' B2 (essentially all to correct the 'Finish F2L' step)
2x2x2: D B2 R' B' L' D2 (6)
Finish F2L: U' L' B2 L U' L B' L (14) Was building a 2x2x1, but then noticed adding an extra move made another, and the last pair was just pure luck to be there. Found it without having done any premoves, so it's not quite as stupidly lucky as it seems by just solving white F2L 
Edges and 1 corner: L' B' R B' R' B2 L (18) Basically just tried various OLLs that solved edges until I found this one.
Skeleton: D B2 R' B' L' D2 U' L' B2 L U' L B2 R B' R' B2 L B L' * B2 (21)
Insert L F' L' B' L F L' B at * to cancel 3 moves

Interestingly, the last 8 moves of the skeleton do a block comm, which is formed from the ending of my OLL and the premoves.
After I found the pseudo-F2L, I did B2 L' B as the premoves by mistake the first time. However, from that I got this skeleton:
2x2x2: D B2 R' B' L' D2 (6)
Finish F2L: U' L' B2 L U' L B' L (14)
Edges and 1 corner: U2 R' U2 R
Skeleton: D B2 R' B' L' D2 U' L' B2 L U' L B' L U2 R' U2 R B2 L' B (21)
This leaves the same 3 corners as the first skeleton because it is the same apart from a different way of doing the block comm at the end. Insertions didn't cancel more moves though.

Moral of that long post: I can do block comms without realising it


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## irontwig (Apr 16, 2012)

Nice one, found this skeleton linearly:

B R F'.R B2 U F2 R U2 B L' B U [Leaving 4C2E]

Insert at dot: D' R2:F2 L' U' L F2 R' D R' (Two moves cancel)
Insert at colon: R2 D L D' R2 D L' D' (Four moves cancel)

Results in 25 moves:
B R F' L D' R2 D L' D' F2 L' U' L F2 R' D B2 U F2 R U2 B L' B U


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## Pyjam (Apr 17, 2012)

*Weekly competition 2012-15 :*

Scramble = L2 R2 U2 F D2 F U2 F' U2 R2 B' L' F' R' B2 L2 D' B R2 U2 B



okayama said:


> Pre-scramble: L' F2
> 
> 1x2x3 block: F L F' * B
> 2x2x3 block: R' D' L2
> ...


I found the exact same beginning (including: F2L minus 1 slot: R' U2) but I don't know 2C2E.

I ended this way:
On reverse scramble:
Pre-moves: L2 D R B' F L' F'
F2 L2 F2 R F2 L' R : (14) F2L -1 slot

On normal scramble:
Pre-moves: R2 L F2 R' F2 L2 F2 (7)
F L F' B R' D' L2 R : (15) F2L -1 slot
B U2 B' R' U2 R : (21) edges oriented
D' R U' R U R U' R2 D U : (31) Solved

I never tried inserting this kind of permutation. Maybe soon.


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## okayama (Apr 17, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> *Weekly competition 2012-15 :*
> 
> Scramble = L2 R2 U2 F D2 F U2 F' U2 R2 B' L' F' R' B2 L2 D' B R2 U2 B
> 
> ...



I understand why you gave up the continuation R' U2 for F2L minus 1 slot, since it was also difficult for me to leave 3 corners after that.
The following continuation gives the skeleton for it (after 1-hour I found):

More square: B2 R' B2 R' B2 R2 B2
All but 3 corners: R B' R' B R2

But 6 cancels are needed to beat my 15 min solution. 

Leaving 2c2e is rare for me, but this time that was better than leaving 3 corners.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 18, 2012)

Anyone want to practise 5 corner insertions?

[22:44] <+RobertY> kinch2002: B2 F2 D U L2 U R2 D' R2 B2 U L D B F L2 D' F D' B2 D2 U'
[22:44] <+RobertY> interesting FM scramble...

5 corners left: L2 D F2 D' B' D L D2 B2 D L2 F' (12)


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## okayama (Apr 19, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> Anyone want to practise 5 corner insertions?
> 
> [22:44] <+RobertY> kinch2002: B2 F2 D U L2 U R2 D' R2 B2 U L D B F L2 D' F D' B2 D2 U'
> [22:44] <+RobertY> interesting FM scramble...
> ...



Too lazy to practice, so:
3 corners left: L2 D F2 D2 B2 D2 L D2 U B' U' D L2 F' (14)


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 19, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> Anyone want to practise 5 corner insertions?
> 
> [22:44] <+RobertY> kinch2002: B2 F2 D U L2 U R2 D' R2 B2 U L D B F L2 D' F D' B2 D2 U'
> [22:44] <+RobertY> interesting FM scramble...
> ...


 


okayama said:


> Too lazy to practice, so:
> 3 corners left: L2 D F2 D2 B2 D2 L D2 U B' U' D L2 F' (14)


 
"I" get 21-move solutions for either skeleton.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 19, 2012)

Is that "I" as in "CE"?

Copied the cramble, will have a go at it too.

BTW: where did the scramble come from?

PS: Bruce, do you know of any programs that could actually check skeletons for insertions?
Or how difficult it would be to make one?
I think this could be a great tool for analysing solves.


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 19, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Is that "I" as in "CE"?



Not "CE," but yes, I did have assistance. (Like Okayama, I was being lazy.) 


Cubenovice said:


> PS: Bruce, do you know of any programs that could actually check skeletons for insertions?


Yes, I have such a program under development.


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## keyan (Apr 19, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> do you know of any programs that could actually check skeletons for insertions?


http://if.qiyuuu.com/


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## kinch2002 (Apr 19, 2012)

keyan said:


> http://if.qiyuuu.com/


Could you produce an English version? The google translation isn't great


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## Pyjam (Apr 19, 2012)

Upper box : the scramble
Lower box : your skeleton


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## Cubenovice (Apr 19, 2012)

cuBerBruce said:


> Not "CE," but yes, I did have assistance. (Like Okayama, I was being lazy.)
> 
> Yes, I have such a program under development.


 


keyan said:


> http://if.qiyuuu.com/



*Thank you*
Been looking for this for ages!


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## BQ (Apr 21, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> Could you produce an English version? The google translation isn't great


 
http://if.qiyuuu.com/?lang=en


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## emolover (Apr 22, 2012)

Could someone help me with FMC. What is a skeleton? How should I go about edge control? What do I do if have 4 corners left instead of 3? How do you cycle 5 corners? Is there a guide for this stuff?

I'm willing to learn algs, I don't mind.

Here is my poor attempt at the weekly.


Scramble: B2 U L2 D2 F2 D R2 D2 B2 L2 U' L' F R B L' F2 L2 D F R2

2x2: L' F U' R' B' R' (6)
2x2x3D U2 F U2 F2 U2 D F (14)
Finish F2L:U' L' U' L2 U2 L U' L' B L B' (25)
OLL: x' z'*S' L' U' L U L F' L' f*(35)
EPLL: R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R (46)


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## Jakube (Apr 22, 2012)

Read this and this.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 22, 2012)

emolover said:


> Could someone help me with FMC. What is a skeleton? How should I go about edge control? What do I do if have 4 corners left instead of 3? How do you cycle 5 corners? Is there a guide for this stuff?



*My standard post :* (ninja'd)
For more info on FMC read this:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques ninja'd)
this
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread ninja'd)
and offcourse check the solutions of other people in the weekly comps.

FMC is a very cool event and good for your overall cube-understanding!

Methods that are very usefull to know for FMC: Petrus and Heise.

Both start out with Blockbuilding, then orient edges.
Petrus: EO after 2x2x3 block
Heise: EO after (or during) F2L- 1 slot
Both ways of EO are good to explore during a solve

For the end game Heise provides you with some good tactics for leaving 3 or 5 (easier to get to) corners.
In a normal Heise solve you then solve these corners via corner 3-cycles (commutators)

For FMC you insert these 3-cycles into earlier parts of the solution.
This way you can typically use 8 move optimal commutators (instead of up to 12 move optimal when you solve them at the end of the solution)
The real neat trick is to insert these cycles in such a way / location that they cancel moves.
For a 3 cycle insertion you can expect to cancel 2 moves: then you have solved the corners with 6 HTM 
For two 3 cycle insertions you can expect to cancel about 6 moves: then you have solved the corners with 10 HTM

More specific:
Skeleton: a partial solution that solves most of the cube. The remaining pieces are then solved via insertions.
Edge control: various options
- at the very start for ZZ or HTA approach (rare)
- as mentioned above at 2x2x3 or at / during F2L-1 stage (typical)
- if you have 4 corners left you can try alternative endings to get to three but often you just have to deal with them. (insertion of two 3-cycles)
- 5 corners: solve via insertion of two 3-cycles

4 corners is not that bad: with the first commutator you only have to solve one piece, this gives a high chance of getting good cancellations.

Regarding your solution: solutions of ongoing competetions should be placed under spoiler tags 
I did not check on a cube but :
14 move 2x2x3 is way too long (unless it leaves a very short F2L)
It is good to check F2L, you may get lucky with OLL or PLL skip or leave something that can be inserted
you can also try sompe short OLL's to see if they leave somlething to be inserted
Typically in FMC you do not use OLL and PLL


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## irontwig (Apr 22, 2012)

Might as well post this imo pretty interesting solve (scramble is in the post above):
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...lve-quot-Game!&p=736786&viewfull=1#post736786


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## Cubenovice (Apr 22, 2012)

irontwig said:


> Might as well post this imo pretty interesting solve (scramble is in the post above):
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...lve-quot-Game!&p=736786&viewfull=1#post736786


 
Great scrambles give great solution 
Nice one. I spend 15 minutes yesterday on getting it to work; I kept scrambling with the first line of *your* post...


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## Pyjam (Apr 23, 2012)

Weekly competition 2012-16 :
Scramble : B2 U L2 D2 F2 D R2 D2 B2 L2 U' L' F R B L' F2 L2 D F R2

Okayama, thank you for your previous reply, and congratulations for your amazing solution this week.

I lost my mind in this maze of blocks. :fp


Spoiler



Normal scramble:
Pre-moves: F' D
L' : 3 moves and already a 222 block
U2 R' U' R : 2 more pairs

Reverse:
Pre-moves: R' U R U2 L
D' F : 222 block + 2 pairs
R2 U' R : 3 more pairs

Normal:
Pre-moves: R' U R2 F' D
L' U2 R' U' R : previous start
U : Oh yeh, on more pair!
L2 F U' R2 U F' L' : 4x 221 block + 4x pairs
U' L' U R : 223 block + 221 + 5 pairs. Then my brain blew a fuse.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 28, 2012)

*Zune open 2012*

FMC: B2 R2 U L2 D U2 B2 R B D F2 D U F' L' F' L R2 U

Podium:
Nicolas Fruy - 28
AVG - 31
Erik - 33

Your's truly: DNF 36 move solution ending with B' , not B...

*Nicolas Fruy*
R F D' // 2x2x2
B U R U2 B' R // X-cross
U2 B U' B2 U B // 2nd pair
F' U2 F // 3rd pair
R' U R // 4th pair
F' U B U' F U B' // niklas

R F D' B U R U2 B' R U2 B U' B2 U B F' U2 F R' U R U
Inserting the corner cycle instead of finishing with Niklas would cancel 2 moves and still give a 28 HTM result

*AVG*
B' U' B' U2 B2 - cross
D2 F' D2 F - 1st pair
B D B' F D' F' - 2nd pair
D2 R D' R' - 3nd pair
L' D L D' - 4th pair leaves 3C at 23 HTM
3-cycle inserted somewhere for 31 HTM


The novice
U2 R F D’ – 2x2x2 U2 is inserted
U’ R2 B’ U2 – pseudo 2x2x3
R’ B’ – looks like pseudo F2L but blocks interfere…

After wasting too much time on getting something out of all these blocks I settled for
U2 R F D’ U’ R2 B’ U2 - 2x2x3
Switch to Inverse
B U B2 R B’ R’ B’ – F2L-1
U R U’ B’ R’ B R’ – L5C at 22 moves

Gives this frame for normal scramble: U2 R F D' U' R2 B' U2 R B' R B U R' U' B R B R' B2 U' B' 
Only a few minutes left for insertion and I found: D L D’ R’ D L’ D’ R to cancel 2 moves
because of time L3C was solved at the end in 8 moves for 36 HTM
And then on the score sheet I forgot the “prime” on the very last move…

Inserions SHOULD have been:
. U2 R F U' : D’ R2 B' U2 R B' R B U R' U' B R B R' B2 U' B'
At . insert R D R' U2 R D' R' U2 to cancel 4 moves how did I miss this one?????
At : insert L2 D' R' D L2 D' R D to cancel 3 moves

Final R D R' U2 R D' F U' L2 D' R' D L2 D' R' B' U2 R B' R B U R' U' B R B R' B2 U' B' = 31 HTM


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## irontwig (Apr 28, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> *Zune open 2012*
> 
> FMC: B2 R2 U L2 D U2 B2 R B D F2 D U F' L' F' L R2 U
> 
> ...


 
But you got a pseudo F2L-1 so: B' R' B R U R U' R2 [Pseudo F2L and leaving 4 corners] U' B' [Undo Pseudoness] (19)


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## Cubenovice (Apr 29, 2012)

irontwig said:


> But you got a pseudo F2L-1 so: B' R' B R U R U' R2 [Pseudo F2L and leaving 4 corners] U' B' [Undo Pseudoness] (19)



THX Erik,

I feel so stupid right now!!!!
I accidentally wrote B2 instead of B' as premove...
And then I wonder why the blocks do not work, I thought it was because they had white in common.

Getting to this L4C was so straightforward, I would have had plenty of time for insertions.
Don't feel like checking so I used Insertion finder: this *c*ould have been 29 HTM


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## Pyjam (Apr 29, 2012)

Hi there,

Want to play ? There's a not-too-difficult solution in 22 moves for this scamble : 

*B2 U2 F2 U2 F2 U F2 U' R2 D L' B D' B F' D2 L' R' U' B2*


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## Sebastien (Apr 30, 2012)

Just coming back from BW Open 2012 with a 28 and a 26 move solution! 

*1st attempt:*

Scramble: F2 L2 D2 B2 F2 L' B2 D2 L B2 R' B' U F' L R2 U2 B L2 R2 U2

Start on normal scramble (Pseudo 2x2x2 + 3 blocks): L2 U2 R' B2 R' F'
Switch to Inverse (Pseudo TX-Cross): F' L' F2 R' B R F
Switch back (3 corners): D2 . L F L' F' U' L D' L' U

. = D' L U L' D L U' L'

Solution: L2 U2 R' B2 R' F' D L U L' D L U' F L' F' U' L D' L' U F' R' B' R F2 L F

28 moves


*2nd attempt:*

Really nice scramble, some of you should try it and I'm sure someone will find better than 26 moves!

Scramble: B2 F2 D F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 L B' F2 D U R2 F' R' U2 L'

2x2x3: L2 F2 L' F' L2 U'
TX-Cross: F' D' F D
extend: F2 D' F' D
3 corners: U' . R' B' R B U F'

. = D R' U' R D' R' U R

Solution: L2 F2 L' F' L2 U' F' D' F D F2 D' F' U' D2 R' U' R D' R' U B' R B U F'

26 moves


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## Cubenovice (Apr 30, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> Just coming back from BW Open 2012 with a 28 and a 26 move solution!
> 
> *2nd attempt:*
> 
> ...



congratulations, nice solves!

2nd scramble
B2 F2 D F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 L B' F2 D U R2 F' R' U2 L'

U L' B2 U2 F2 U // pseudo 2x2x3 6
D' F' D' F // pseudo F2L-corner , find premoves F U' 10+2
U' F' L' F L U L2 // 6 move OLL leaves 4 corners 17+2
F U' // undo premoves 19
http://tinyurl.com/algUL-B2U2F2Ups

Too lazy to check for insertions myself
Insertion finder gives:
U L' B2 U2 . F2 U D' F' D' : F U' F' L' F L U L2 F U'
Insert at . U B' U' F2 U B U' F2 to cancel 5 moves 
Insert at : D2 F U' F' D2 F U F' to cancel 7 moves 
I will not claim that I would have found these myself.

Final solution B2 U' B' U' F2 U B D' F' D F U' F' D2 L' F L U L2 F U' = *23 HTM*


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## irontwig (Apr 30, 2012)

4 moves for 4 corners, that's just silly. Why does the insertion finder do the worse insertion first though? Edit: Now I think I understand why; it just tries every insertion, and since the 5-move cancelling insertion is earlier in the skeleton it'll find that combination first rather than a human who would do the best insertion and then go searching for another one.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 30, 2012)

irontwig said:


> 4 moves for 4 corners, that's just silly. Why does the insertion finder do the worse insertion first though?



With the frame being 19 moves I did not expect to improve on Sebastien's solution that's why I did not bother to look for the insertions myself...
lets say that I was pretty surprised


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## Sebastien (Apr 30, 2012)

4 moves for 4 corners is really crazy  I don't think I would have even looked for insertion for that skeleton if I'd found it (I had the 26 move solution after 10-15 minutes).

I like your start a lot btw!

Premoves: F U'
2x2x3: U L' B2 U2 F2 U
5 corners: D2 L' F U L U' F' L2 (can result in a 25)
or: D2 L' F L2 F' D' L D (can result in a 24)


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## Pyjam (Apr 30, 2012)

Even more crazy : 6 moves for 6 corners. My solution : Patrick Jamet.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 30, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> 4 moves for 4 corners is really crazy  I don't think I would have even looked for insertion for that skeleton if I'd found it (I had the 26 move solution after 10-15 minutes).
> 
> I like your start a lot btw!
> 
> ...



Getting lucky is not a crime 

I liked this start too, consider it a revenge for #&$#@! ing up my premoves at the Zune open.



Pyjam said:


> Even more crazy : 6 moves for 6 corners. My solution : Patrick Jamet.


 
Depends how you look at it:
# moves per piece: tie
# moves for two cycles: Insertion Finder wins


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## Pyjam (Apr 30, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Depends how you look at it:


My first skeleton was : R' B' F (D' R U' R') U L D' R B' R' B' D U2 L' U F2
Then I spotted the half commutator in parenthesis, and I changed it for : R' B' F (R U' R' D') U L D' R B' R' B' D U2 L' U F2
This permutes 3 corners and removes one that was in the right place with bad orientation.
So in fact, there was 6 moves for 3 cycles, the first one with 8 moves cancelled, 18 moves cancelled in total. 

On a side note, as the responsible of the weekly FMC on another forum, I don't think the Insertion Finder is a good thing.


----------



## irontwig (Apr 30, 2012)

Well, imho inserted 3-cycles are pretty trivial and mechanical after you done a few. The difficult art of FMC is more of creating skeletons and doing more exotic insertions. Not to mention that online FMC is honesty based anyway.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 30, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> On a side note, as the responsible of the weekly FMC on another forum, I don't think the Insertion Finder is a good thing.



Now that this tool exists it does make me wonder why some online sub-30 solutions have the exact same insertions as Insertion Finder...
I'm not talking about the old dogs offcourse!


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## BQ (Apr 30, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> On a side note, as the responsible of the weekly FMC on another forum, I don't think the Insertion Finder is a good thing.


 
It's not good for FMC online. We made it just because we want to know the difference between finding insertitions by ourselves and by the Insertion Finder. It searchs for the fewest moves and always cancels many moves.


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## Pyjam (Apr 30, 2012)

Maybe it should be good to add a blacklist of scrambles for the week.


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 30, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> Maybe it should be good to add a blacklist of scrambles for the week.


 
I think you're proposing that the existing insertion finder web site checks the entered scramble against scrambles of known active competitions. This would require the implementers of the web site to actually implement this and somehow keep the blacklist current (which would be perhaps quite a bit of extra hassle). Besides that, people could use equivalent scramble, symmetry, inverse, and cyclic shift tricks to bypass the blacklist.


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## Sebastien (May 1, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Now that this tool exists it does make me wonder why some online sub-30 solutions have the exact same insertions as Insertion Finder...


 
At first I thought as well that the existence of that tool might be rather bad. But I really like it now to check if the insertions I found where optimal or not. It is also nice for testing skeletons for insertions just for interrest after an attempt is finished.


----------



## palash_du (May 1, 2012)

Can anyone give me a link to this insertion finder?

I searched but did not get anything!


----------



## Jakube (May 1, 2012)

palash_du said:


> Can anyone give me a link to this insertion finder?
> 
> I searched but did not get anything!


 
http://if.qiyuuu.com/?lang=en


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## Ickenicke (May 1, 2012)

I will start practising FMC.

I understand blockbuilding and stuffs until the last corners.

I have read somewhere that you only need 8-moves commutators. But I can't understan how that does work, and where I can find those? How many are they?


----------



## irontwig (May 1, 2012)

It's a bit silly counting how many possible ones there are since they are basically the same thing, e.g: R U R' (Inserting one corner) D2 (Adjusting layer) R U' R' (Inserting another one) D2 (Adjusting layer back)


----------



## cuBerBruce (May 1, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I have read somewhere that you only need 8-moves commutators. But I can't understan how that does work, and where I can find those? How many are they?


 
At least according to my analysis, I get these numbers.

Considering symmetrical variations (including mirroring, but not including taking the inverse), there are essentially 24 different 3-cycle cases of corners. Of these 24 cases, 11 have an 8-move maneuver. Of those 11 cases, seven have two distinct optimal maneuvers. The other four (out of the 11) cases have one 8-move maneuver each. So there are 18 essentially different 8-move corner 3-cycle maneuvers covering 11 distinct cases.

F' L' F R' F' L F R
R B L' B' R' B L B'
F' D' F U F' D F U'
L' F R F' L F R' F'
L D' L' U L D L' U'
U' R' D' R U R' D R
F' L' F R2 F' L F R2
R2 D L2 D' R2 D L2 D'
F' D2 F U F' D2 F U'
L D2 L' U L D2 L' U'
U' F D' F' U F D F'
D' R2 D L2 D' R2 D L2
L2 F R F' L2 F R' F'
F' D F U F' D' F U'
U' R' D2 R U R' D2 R
U' F D2 F' U F D2 F'
U2 B' D B U2 B' D' B
L D' L' U2 L D L' U2


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## Mike Hughey (May 1, 2012)

Wow, Bruce, that's really interesting. I have noticed that often there are two different 8-move solutions, but I never knew the statistics - it turns out that it's often true. And I've never noticed a case with 3 distinct solutions, and now I guess I can assume that's because there aren't any. I always wondered.

By the way, I thought people here might like to know that I got my best ever fewest moves solve today on the weekly competition 2012-18 scramble: 23 moves! I think it may not be so much that it was a lucky scramble as it was that I got a lucky solve (I definitely got very lucky), but I'm interested in seeing what other people will come up with.


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## Cubenovice (May 1, 2012)

My quest for a sub 30 Human Thistlethwaite solve has ended!

Scramble 1 of the speedcubers.de weekly competition:

scramble
R2 B2 L2 D B2 R2 D B2 L2 B2 D2 F' R U2 B' U F' R F' U' F' U'

inverse
U F U F R' F U' B U2 R' F D2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2


F' B' - Edge orientation
switch to inverse with premoves F B
. L' R D R' U2 D L' D L : - Corner orientation
U' L2 - corner cycle would pair up corners (solve with random commutator, insert cycle later)
D' F2 B2 - bring corners to correct layer, leaves edge cycle and edge 2+2 swap
F B - undo premoves at this stage cancels 2 moves

insertions:
. pair swap U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L2 cancel 1 move
: edge cycle L2 + U' D F2 D' U cancel 3 moves
+ corner cycle L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U cancel 3 moves

final solution for inverse scramble
U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L R D R' U2 D L' D L U' R2 U L2 U' R2 D F2 D' L2 D' F' B' 

for regular scramble:
B F D L2 D F2 D' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L' D' L D' U2 R D' R' L' U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 = *27 HTM*


And congratulations Mike!!!



Cubenovice said:


> My quest for a sub 30 Human Thistlethwaite solve has ended!
> 
> B F D L2 D F2 D' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L' D' L D' U2 R D' R' L' U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 = *27 HTM*



LOL at the edge insertions of insertionfinder:
The Scramble：U F U F R' F U' B U2 R' F D2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2 
Your Skeleton：L' R D R' U2 D L' D L' U' D F2 D' L2 D' F' B' 

1 corner 3-cycle(s) and 2 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed

[@1] L' R D R' U2 D L' D L' U' D F2 D' L2 D' F' B'
Insert at @1: D2 B' L2 D2 R2 F' U2 R2

After the 1st insertion: D2 [@2] B' L2 D2 R2 F' U2 R' L' D R' U2 D L' D L' U' D F2 D' L2 D' F' B'
Insert at @2: L2 D2 R2 F R2 D2 L2 B

After the 2nd insertion: D2 L2 D2 R2 U2 R' L' D R' U2 D L' D L' [@3] U' D F2 D' L2 D' F' B'
Insert at @3: L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U

Fewest moves: 27. 14 moves cancelled
The final solution: D2 L2 D2 R2 U2 R' L' D R' U2 D L' D L U' R2 U L2 U' R2 D F2 D' L2 D' F' B'
Runtime: 4457.424327 milliseconds

It took me a little longer but WTF inserting 8-movers for edges?


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## BQ (May 2, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> LOL at the edge insertions of insertionfinder:
> The Scramble：U F U F R' F U' B U2 R' F D2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2
> Your Skeleton：L' R D R' U2 D L' D L' U' D F2 D' L2 D' F' B'
> 
> ...



Check the alg of edge 2*2-cycle, it finds insertions following:

1 corner 3-cycle(s) and 2 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
[@1] L' R D R' U2 D L' D L' U' D F2 D' L2 D' F' B'
Insert at @1: U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L2
After the 1st insertion: U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L R D R' U2 D L' D L' [@2] U' D F2 D' L2 D' F' B'
Insert at @2: L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U
Fewest moves: 27. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L R D R' U2 D L' D L U' R2 U L2 U' R2 D F2 D' L2 D' F' B'
Runtime: 114513.025627 milliseconds


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## irontwig (May 2, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> WTF inserting 8-movers for edges?


 
Well, there's only one case, so it's well worth considering for humans too.


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## guusrs (May 2, 2012)

Mike Hughey said:


> By the way, I thought people here might like to know that I got my best ever fewest moves solve today on the weekly competition 2012-18 scramble: 23 moves! I think it may not be so much that it was a lucky scramble as it was that I got a lucky solve (I definitely got very lucky), but I'm interested in seeing what other people will come up with.


 
Woooow Mike, Congratz. You deserve it!

If you like a lucky scramble you should try this week 1-hour scramble of fmc.mustcube.net. Actually I invite every FMC lover to give this beauty a try!


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## Mike Hughey (May 2, 2012)

guusrs said:


> If you like a lucky scramble you should try this week 1-hour scramble of fmc.mustcube.net. Actually I invite every FMC lover to give this beauty a try!



Thanks - it was a lucky scramble. Unfortunately, as usual, I seem to be not very good at lucky scrambles - there are just too many possibilities and I get lost in them. I got a lucky 29 move solve on it due to a PLL skip in 10 minutes, but I couldn't come up with anything better after an hour.


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## nickvu2 (May 4, 2012)

I was just told that you can write down cube turns (x, y, z) in the solution but that they don't count towards the total move count. Is this right!? Looking at the HTM definition I guess so.



> Half Turn Metric (HTM) is defined as:
> 12a17) Each move of the categories Face Moves and Double Outer Slice Moves is counted as 1 move.
> 12a18) Each move of the categories Inner Slice Moves and Middle Slice Moves is counted as 2 moves.
> 12a19) Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.



So why don't I see anyone making use of this??? Is there some advantage to translating algs, edge control, etc. rather than using cube turns to put LL on the U layer?


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## Cubenovice (May 4, 2012)

nickvu2 said:


> I was just told that you can write down cube turns (x, y, z) in the solution but that they don't count towards the total move count. Is this right!? Looking at the HTM definition I guess so.
> 
> So why don't I see anyone making use of this??? Is there some advantage to translating algs, edge control, etc. rather than using cube turns to put LL on the U layer?



Correct: cube rotations do not count as moves.

Some people *do* use rotations in their solutions, these people may also *overlook cancellations or mess up NISS solves*

Writing without rotations makes everything so much easier: you can keep flipping the cube over without ever having to worry if you get the rotations right or miss a cancellation. Writing without rotations actually means *less *translating.


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## nickvu2 (May 4, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Correct: cube rotations do not count as moves.
> 
> Some people *do* use rotations in their solutions, these people may also *overlook cancellations or mess up NISS solves*
> 
> Writing without rotations makes everything so much easier: you can keep flipping the cube over without ever having to worry if you get the rotations right or miss a cancellation. Writing without rotations actually means *less *translating.


 
Haha, ok that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me =)


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## Mikel (May 5, 2012)

nickvu2 said:


> I was just told that you can write down cube turns (x, y, z) in the solution but that they don't count towards the total move count. Is this right!? Looking at the HTM definition I guess so.
> 
> 
> 
> So why don't I see anyone making use of this??? Is there some advantage to translating algs, edge control, etc. rather than using cube turns to put LL on the U layer?



E1a) The maximum length of a solution is 80 (moves and rotations).

They count only if you are approaching 80, so if you have say 77 moves and 4 rotations, 77+4=81 so you DNF. But if you have 70 moves and 4 rotations, 70+4=74 so you have a 70 move solution.

I guess this really only pertains to people who aren't great at FMC, aka myself.


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## Sebastien (May 5, 2012)

Mike Hughey said:


> Thanks - it was a lucky scramble. Unfortunately, as usual, I seem to be not very good at lucky scrambles - there are just too many possibilities and I get lost in them. I got a lucky 29 move solve on it due to a PLL skip in 10 minutes, but I couldn't come up with anything better after an hour.



I quickly managed to find a 27 move solution and spent like 2 hours in total on the scramble, found like 5 or 6 different sub30 move solution but none better than 27 :/

Can't wait to see if and how others did better!


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## kinch2002 (May 7, 2012)

I while back I mentioned a possible video FMC 'tutorial'. I finally have a camera (thanks Mollerz) so I intend to film some stuff soon. As it essentially impossible to give a tutorial on FMC, my intention is to do several videos on topics, giving a range of ideas. The overall intention is to stop people from having to answer the same questions over and over again by having a video to link people to. I know there is a fair amount of text dotted all over the internet, so I'll be having a look over that too for ideas. I'd appreciate feedback on the general topics rather than specific tips to include.

1. Basic overview: Includes some important rules, some of the methods that are used, and a few general tips. Kind of like an FAQ.
2. Starting a solve and finding continuations
3. Finishing a solve/skeleton
4. Insertions (corners inc. 4 and 5 corners left, and edges too)
5. Pseudo blocks and using the inverse scramble (including NISS ofc)


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## kinch2002 (May 7, 2012)

A couple of random fun scrambles I tried tonight



Spoiler



[21:12] <+RobertY> 10.89 OH
[21:12] <+RobertY> B2 U2 F2 L2 D B2 F2 D2 U' R2 L2 F' D' L' D R B R F D2 R
CFOP ish solve, so I'll add rotation in there at the start. Rob only did up to F2L#2 the same during the solve. I found the rest by randomly playing around.
Cross: z D' B
1: F U' F'
2: U' L U' L'
3+4: U' R' U' R U' R' U' R2 U' R'
LL: R U B R B' R' B R B' R' U' R' U'
28 moves





Spoiler



[22:23] <+Brest> F2 U' R2 B2 D' L2 D L2 U2 R2 U' R D U2 L2 D' F2 L B' U' R' U'
R' B' L' F' D' F2 R U2 F' found by Robert-Y
L2 U L2 B L2 B' L2 U' L' found by me
18 moves to 3 corners
Insertions finder says 25 moves total


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## guusrs (May 17, 2012)

A very nice scramble at the weekly competition on this forum (2012-20).
I had a crazy solve.
I' will post it next monday...


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## cubernya (May 20, 2012)

What's the UWR for most moves cancelled to final solution ratio? Just wondering because I just got a 28 move solution with 12 moves cancelled (12:28 = 42%)

Scramble: D2 L2 D' B2 D L R' D' B2 D' R2 B' U2 F2 R2 D R

U' R2 D' B // EOLine (4/4)
R' F2 R L2 U' L2 U F2 // Left Block (8/12)
U' R' U2 D' R U2 L U' R' U L' D // Right Block + Edges (12/24)

U' R2 D' B R' F2 L2 [.] R U' L2 U F2 U' R' U2 D' R [,] U2 L U' R' U L' D
. = U' L2 U R U' L2 U R'
, = L D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U2
U' R2 D' B R' F2 L2 U' L2 U R *U' L2 U R' R U' L2 U* F2 U' R' U2 D' R L D2 L' U2 L D2 *L' U2 U2 L* U' R' U L' D
U' R2 D' B R' F2 L2 U' L2 U R F2 U' R' U2 D' R L D2 L' U2 L D2 U' R' U L' D
28 turns (12 cancelled)


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## okayama (May 20, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> What's the UWR for most moves cancelled to final solution ratio? Just wondering because I just got a 28 move solution with 12 moves cancelled (12:28 = 42%)
> 
> Scramble: D2 L2 D' B2 D L R' D' B2 D' R2 B' U2 F2 R2 D R
> 
> ...


 
I'm not sure what is the UWR exactly, but at least I got 20-move solution with 11-move cancellation.
See my solve in Weekly competition 2010-21. 11:20 = 55%.


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## Pyjam (May 20, 2012)

And me, 18 moves cancelled for 25-move final solution = 72%

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=739690&viewfull=1#post739690
(Mustcube 390)

Useless record.


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## Erik (May 21, 2012)

NEMO Open 1st place: 28 moves

Scramble:F' U' L F B2 D2 L2 D B2 R' F2 U D L2 U B2 U L2 U2 F2

Solution

2x2x2: L F2 B L U L (6)
Extend to triple X-cross: B2 R U2 R B R (6)

Switched to the inverse now using of course premoves: R' B' R' U2 R' B2 L' U' L' B' F2 L' 

Pair plus OLL: B' L U' L' U L' (6)
Cancel into J-perm: B2 R' B2 L B' L' B2 R L B' (10)

Full solution:
L F2 B L U L B2 R U2 R B R B L' R' B2 L B L' B2 R B2 L U' L U L' B (28)


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## kinch2002 (May 21, 2012)

Erik said:


> Scramble:F' U' L F B2 D2 L2 D B2 R' F2 U D L2 U B2 U L2 U2 F2
> 
> Solution
> 
> ...


I thought this finish is quite obvious 
F2L-1 as above
B L' B' L U B' U' B' U B U' B2 (24)


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## Erik (May 21, 2012)

Osh**** why didn't I see that????


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## Sebastien (May 21, 2012)

Erik said:


> Osh**** why didn't I see that????


 
'cause pure LL-Skips are so lame 

Edit: 35, 34, 30, 30, 27, DNF, 27, 29, 28, 26, 29, 29 = 29.8 Average of 12 with my last 12 official attempts! Can't wait to roll this! 

Edit2: U' L U L' B2 U B U' B2 as finish = 21 move solution. WTF


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## Cubenovice (May 21, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> Edit2: U' L U L' B2 U B U' B2 as finish = 21 move solution. WTF



And so £&é%king straightforward too...
Crazy...


THX for making me feel extra stupid posting my fail stuff now.

Short story:
Could have been a 31 HTM but as usual I fail under time pressure.

Long story


Spoiler



F' U' L F B2 D2 L2 D B2 R' F2 U D L2 U B2 U L2 U2 F2

R' pseudo square (R2)
F2 L2 U' - find premove U2
L D' B' D - 2x2x3 – corner and a square
L2 - pseudo F2L-1 - corner (L2)

So we have
premoves L U2 R2
R' - square 
F2 L2 U' L D' B' D - 2x2x3 – corner and a square
L2 - F2L-1 - corner in 12 moves
but couldn't find anything decent so eventually settled for
U2 F U2 F' U2 L' U L - leaves 5 corners in 20 HTM
so corrected everything for premoves and started stickering for insertions
and only then noticed the twisted corner...

So then I decided to try something completely different halfway in my solution:
premoves L U2 R2
R' F2 L2 U' 
and from there
F' L' F D B U2 B' D' leaves 3E3C in 15HTM
then only had a few minutes left for insertions.
And under time pressure I messed everything up again…

Final skeleton:
* R' F2 L2 U' F' L' F D : B U2 B' D' L U2 . R2 leaves 3E3C in 15HTM (A perm corners)

At . insert L U L’ D2 L U’ L’ D2, no cancellation but beats the A-perm, found from the back and decided to immediately check for edges.
At : the edges can be solved via optimal U-perm but I set it up wrong + forgot to undo a set up move:fp
Cycle L2 U - U2 B’ F R2 F’ B - U’ L2 does not work when you leave out the U’
And it was the wrong cycle anyway; should have been L2 U’ – U2 F’ B L2 B’ F – U L2
On top of it seems I also forgot to copy the ‘ at the last D in the skeleton too.

Later I found F2 R B’ R’ F2 R B R’ for corners at * to cancel one move making this a possible 31 HTM.

And then Insertion Finder tells me that I need to study edge cycles…
There is a 10 move edge cycle that cancels 4 moves for an 28 HTM end result.
Can you find it?


Spoiler



1 corner 3-cycle(s) and 1 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
[@1] R' F2 L2 U' F' L' F D B U2 B' D' L U2 R2
Insert at @1: F2 R B' R' F2 R B R'
After the 1st insertion: F2 R B' R' F2 R B R2 F2 [@2] L2 U' F' L' F D B U2 B' D' L U2 R2
Insert at @2: U' R L' B L2 B' R' L U L2
Fewest moves: 28. 5 moves cancelled
The final solution: F2 R B' R' F2 R B R2 F2 U' R L' B L2 B' R' L F' L' F D B U2 B' D' L U2 R2
Runtime: 52.216004 milliseconds


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## guusrs (May 21, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> Edit2: U' L U L' B2 U B U' B2 as finish = 21 move solution. WTF


 
WTF! 
Such a nice obvious 21 move linear solution was just in front of us and we all didn't see it.
I think we do not deserve a new world record.

@Erik: this was the 2nd time you overlooked a 21 move solution after a splendid start and 2nd time this year you were very close to a new world record! After all those years you still amaze me (-;


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## cubernya (May 23, 2012)

Second sub 30 inside of a week - very nice scramble (and a decent solution)

Scramble: L F L' F2 D' L2 U2 F' U' L2 U' R2 L2 B2 L2 B2 D2 B2 U' B2
Optimal Scramble (generated afterwards): U D2 F U' F B' D F2 U L2 D L' U' L U' F D

U2 B2 U' L2 B D' // X-Cross (6/6)
R2 U R2 U' R2 // Pair 2 (5/11)
F R U R' F' // Psuedo pair 3 + phasing (5/16)
R U' R' U2 F' U' F // Finish - Force LL Skip (7/23)

U2 B2 U' L2 B D' R2 U R2 U' R2 F R U R' F' R U' R' U2 F' U' F U F'


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## ilikecubing (May 28, 2012)

Scramble:R' F' R' L' D2 L' R F' L D' F2 L B F' D' B L D F' D' R' U2 L B2 L' 

a 2x1 block already made so found an 8 move 2x2x3:L2 D'R U' F' U L' R,getting nothin so good after this.


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## spyr0th3dr4g0n (May 28, 2012)

ilikecubing said:


> Scramble:R' F' R' L' D2 L' R F' L D' F2 L B F' D' B L D F' D' R' U2 L B2 L'
> 
> a 2x1 block already made so found an 8 move 2x2x3:L2 D'R U' F' U L' R,getting nothin so good after this.



from scramble L2 D' R U' F' U R F' L2 U2 L U' F L' U' L F R' F' R /20 F2L
L F D F' D' L' /26 OLL
D' F' D R2 B U' F U F' U B' R2 /38 PLL


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## kinch2002 (May 28, 2012)

spyr0th3dr4g0n said:


> from scramble L2 D' R U' F' U R F' L2 U2 L U' F L' U' L F R' F' R /20 F2L


After F2L you can do L then V perm on D face to save some moves.

My quick attempt with ilikecubing's start
Scramble: R' F' R' L' D2 L' R F' L D' F2 L B F' D' B L D F' D' R' U2 L B2 L'
2x2x3: L2 D' R U' F' U L' R (8)
EO: F L' U *L (12)
PseudoF2L: U F2 U' F2 U' (17)
LL edges to leave 3 corners: D F D' F D F2 D'
Correct pseudo: U' (25)
Insert at *: U R2 U' L U R2 U' L' to cancel 5 moves giving *28 moves*
I had 2 other 26 move skeletons (using other sune finishes) to insert, so cancelling this many isn't too lucky.

Or 2x2x3: L2 D' R U' F' U L' R (8)
EO: F2 R U' R' (12)
Leave 4 corners: F2 U2 F' U2 F' U F (19)
Insertion finder says that there's a possible 8 cancellations for the 2 insertions giving *27 moves*
I'd actually back myself to find this one, as the 4 corners are a pure 2+2, so there's not too many combos to check for the first insertion.


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## Carrot (May 29, 2012)

Not really FMC, but you guys seems good at finding solutions.

I am trying to find my solution for my 11.50 OH single, the scramble was: D B2 U L2 U' L2 D' F' L2 D F2 R' D' U2 L2 B R F2 D'
hints: I made cross on yellow (aka. bottom for weird colour schemes) and the last 4 moves was sexy insertion(can't remember if it was R or L, but I'm pretty sure it was R)+U2 (AUF) I'm also kind of sure that the blue-orange F2L pair (blue-red for Aachen and my cube :3 ) got paired up during the other pairs so I could just put it down.

EDIT: found it... and WTF!?!?!?
inspection: z' y
cross: L U x y' U' L' U' z2 [5/5]
F2L#1: U2 L U' L' x y' L' U' L' U z [8/13]
F2L#2: U L U' L' x y' U' L' U x [7/20]
F2L#3: U' L U x [3/23]
F2L#4: L2 U' L' U [4/27]
LL: L2 [1/28]

EDIT2: corrected the solution to how I actually executed it
:3


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## Sebastien (May 29, 2012)

Got a 21 move linear solution on a really stupid scramble someone on the German forum set his lucky PB with:

Scramble: L D2 R´ F´ L R2 B U´ F´ L U R´ D2 U´ F´ L2 U´ B´ R2 D2 L R´ B D2 F´

Solution: Triple X-Cross: R2 B U L2 U R U' B2 R'
F2L: F U2 F'
LL: L U L2 B L B2 U B U2


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## Cubenovice (May 29, 2012)

ilikecubing said:


> Scramble:R' F' R' L' D2 L' R F' L D' F2 L B F' D' B L D F' D' R' U2 L B2 L'
> a 2x1 block already made so found an 8 move 2x2x3:L2 D'R U' F' U L' R,getting nothin so good after this.



moving blocks 'n pairs about is fun:

R2 F' // premove F2 makes roux block
B U B'U'B' // 3 squares
U2 L' F L2 F2 // pseudo F2L-1 premove F2 for LOL premove cancel
L' F U' // leaves 4 corners and edge swap
U F2 U' F' U F' U' F2 // Sune edge swap cancels three moves and leaves 4 corners
IF says the corners can be inserted with 10 cancellations for a 26 HTM solution


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## Julian (May 29, 2012)

U L2 U F2 L2 D' U2 F2 L2 D2 L2 R' F D U2 R B2 U2 B' U R

Found an xxcross here, decided to try FM:

B2 U' B R U' F // xxcross
U' L . U L2 U2 L // F2L-1
U2 B' U B U L U L' // L3C

Insert B' D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 at dot to cancel 1 move.

Final Solution: B2 U' B R U' F U' L B' D2 B U2 B' D2 B U' L2 U2 L U2 B' U B U L U L' (*27 HTM*)


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## cubernya (May 30, 2012)

Sure, go ahead and laugh at me for not making use of the 2x2x1 (and 3 move 2x2x2), but I still got a 19 move solution on it 

Scramble: R' L' B' R U R2 D2 B D L' D L2 D' F2 D L2 U2 R2 F2 U
Optimal scramble: F B U' L F2 R' D L' F U D2 F L B' U L

U' L' B L B2 // 2x2x2 (5/5)
F2 L' . D' L2 D' // 2x2x3 (5/10)
L F L2 U L U' // Leaves 3C (6/16)

. = R D' L' D R' D' L D

19 move solution 
B U R' // 1x2x3 (3/3)
R2 F' B U2 // 2x2x3 (4/7-1)
D B L B' L' // Slot (5/12-1)
F2 U L U' L' // Blockbuilding stuff (5/17-1)
F2 L' D' // Solve (3/20-1)

B U R F' B U2 D B L B' L' F2 U L U' L' F2 L' D'


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## emolover (Jun 3, 2012)

Could someone show me how to do the actual insertions using my crappy skeleton? I found algs to do it(though they do not cancel much) and I do not know how to insert them.

B2 D2 L2 F2 R2 D L2 U B2 L2 U' F' L F U L U2 F D L2 U

R' U' B' D2 L' D' L U'
R' B R B'
D L' F L F' D' R' D' R D' F2
Insert at *: R2 D2 R' U2 R D2 R' U2 R'
Insert at !:*R2 B2 R' F2 R B2 R' F2 R'

I'm such a noob.


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## Jakube (Jun 3, 2012)

Do not use 9-movers for insertion. Use pure 8-move commutator. 

Insertion-Finder found this: 

R' U' B' D2 [@1] L' D' L U' R' B R B' D L' F L F' D' R' D' R D' F2
Insert at @1: L' F' R' F L F' R F
After the 1st insertion: R' U' B' D2 L' F' R' F [@2] L F' R F L' D' L U' R' B R B' D L' F L F' D' R' D' R D' F2
Insert at @2: F R F' L F R' F' L'
Fewest moves: 35. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: R' U' B' D2 L' F' R' F2 R F' L F R' F2 R F L' D' L U' R' B R B' D L' F L F' D' R' D' R D' F2


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## Cubenovice (Jun 3, 2012)

emolover said:


> Could someone show me how to do the actual insertions using my crappy skeleton? I found algs to do it(though they do not cancel much) and I do not know how to insert them.
> 
> I'm such a noob.



Do not learn algs for 3-cycles, learn how commutators work.
Regarding the specific algs you posted:
Apart from being one move longer than desired you are now limiting yourself to cycles were the pieces need to be on one face.


We're all noobs


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## guusrs (Jun 3, 2012)

*FMC-cheating by one or two spanish cubers?*

Hi today on Per's FMC forum (fmc.mustcube.net) a 20-solution is posted by Guillermo Sacristan.

scramble: B' U2 L2 U' B2 D U' R L2 U2 B' U' D2 B' L D2 B R' L' F' B L' B L2 D2 R2 F' R2 U D
solution: F B R2 D L F2 L B' L D' B2 L U' R D2 L' D2 F2 D2 L
his explanation: 
F R2 D L F2 L2 D' B2 L U' R 2X2X2 WHITE-ORANGE-GREEN
F (B) R2 D L F2 L (B') L D' B2 L U' R ARMONIZE WITH INSERCTIONS
D2 L' D2 F2 2X2X3
D2 L FINISH

In my opinion he is cheating. He explains the last easy 6 moves but not the first 14 moves, the difficult ones.
No insertions, premoves, invertions, or whatever new tricks explained we don't know yet.

Secondly I found two guys (?) on the spanish FMC forum (www.rubikfm.es) that post similar cheating-like solutions for a couple of weeks now.
For example last week;

Posted by LOGOS (= same Guillermo ?):
----------------------------------
scramble: F' U2 F L2 U' L2 F2 D2 B2 U2 R' U L D L' U2 B D L' D' B' L U2 F
solution: D F L F R' B L2 U2 B L B2 R2 L' U R' U2 F L'
his (?) explanation (translated by google translate):
My friends.
D F L F R' B L2 B2 U2 R B L (12 turns) 2x2x2 YELLOW-RED-BLUE + 1x2x2 + 2 Pairs
R L' U R' (4 turns) 2x2x2 YELLOW-RED-BLUE HARMONIZED + 1x2x2 (2 mini-blocks) + 1x1x3 (2 mini-blocks) + 1 Pair
U2 (1 turn) 2x2x3 YELLOW-RED-BLUE-WHITE HARMONIZED
F L'(2 turns) FINAL SETTING
TOTAL: D F L F R' B L2 B2 R2 L U2 B L' U R' U2 F L' (19 - 1 = 18 turns)
In my opinion, beautiful blend beautiful resolution.
Greetings!
Guillermo (LOGOS)
----------------------------------

Again Guillermo explains the last 7 moves instead of the very crucial first 12 moves.

And on that same forum a solution from someone called Crisi
----------------------------------
scramble: F' U2 F L2 U' L2 F2 D2 B2 U2 R' U L D L' U2 B D L' D' B' L U2 F
solution: U2 D L U2 L2 U' R U L2 F' R2 U F' L2 F2 U' L2 U F2 U
his explanation (again translated bij google translate
Hi, solution of 20 moves. I've got less than half an hour, but as I liked to have started with a short block, do not try to improve it. I start with a block of 7 movements DBR:
D L F U R U' R2
I 3 insertions (4 movements more)
(U2) D L U2 (L2) U' R U (L2) F' R2
I end with 9 movements more:
U F' L2 - F2 U' L2 - U F2 U
U F' L2 create 2 blocks 1x2x2 though one is going to break
F2 U 'L2 creates a block of 2x2x3 even momentarily breaks a 1x2x2 blocks.
U F2 U ended
----------------------------------

Each week Crisi and LOGOS heave similar short solutions, 20 moves or less.
BTW: the spanish record is 28 moves.

What do my FMC-friends on this forum think about it?


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## cubernya (Jun 3, 2012)

guusrs said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I just went through all the solves, and the beginning makes no sense at all. There are tons of solutions for the step they did under the length that they solved it in, yet they chose lengthier solutions, which phased the rest of the puzzle. There's absolutely no way they found that by hand


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## Cubenovice (Jun 3, 2012)

guusrs said:


> Hi today on Per's FMC forum (fmc.mustcube.net) a 20-solution is posted by Guillermo Sacristan.
> 
> What do my FMC-friends on this forum think about it?



Definitely uses a solvet, then try to hide it with "insertions" of single moves...


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## okayama (Jun 4, 2012)

guusrs said:


> Hi today on Per's FMC forum (fmc.mustcube.net) a 20-solution is posted by Guillermo Sacristan.
> 
> scramble: B' U2 L2 U' B2 D U' R L2 U2 B' U' D2 B' L D2 B R' L' F' B L' B L2 D2 R2 F' R2 U D
> solution: F B R2 D L F2 L B' L D' B2 L U' R D2 L' D2 F2 D2 L
> ...



I think they used Cube Explorer in the following way:

Pick a few moves for premoves (1st one: D2 L, 2nd one: F L', 3rd one: U F2 U)
Enter the premoves + the given scramble to Cube Explorer as maneuver, and push "Apply" then "Add and Solve"
Push the triangle button several times until they are satisfied
You can reproduce their solutions in this way.
And the mission is completed by writing some explanation and posting the solution.


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## Attila (Jun 4, 2012)

I think, Tomoaki’s conclusion it’s reality. 
but you could ask him here:
http://es-es.facebook.com/guillermo.sacristangallurt


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## emolover (Jun 5, 2012)

Ugg, I am just not getting it. 

Scramble: U2 R2 B2 R2 B R2 F U2 B U2 F L F2 D U' F' R F R' B L

2x2 with pair and cross piece: L2 B F2 L' U'
Insert to form 2x2x3: L D' L'
EO:R2 B R'!, B'/ D R D R
Insert at !:R F2 R B2 R' F2 R B2 R2
Insert at ,:R2 U L' U' R2 U L U'
Insert at /:B2 U F2 U' B2 U F2 U'


L2 B F2 L' U' L D' L' R2 B R'!, B'/ D R D R

L2 B F2 L' U' L D' L' R2 B [R'(R] F2 R B2 R' F2 R B2 [R2)(R2] U L' U' R2 U L U') [B'(B2] U F2 U' B2 U F2 U') D R D R

L2 B F2 L' U' L D' L' R2 B F2 R B2 R' F2 R B2 U L' U' R2 U L U' B U F2 U' B2 U F2 U' D R D R

Why is this not working? Is there some special rule I can't find? Could someone please tell me what I am doing wrong so I can stop bothering this thread

.


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## tx789 (Jun 5, 2012)

It seems whenever I do fmc. I just get a 60 move odd solution and I only look for one


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## Sebastien (Jun 5, 2012)

tx789 said:


> It seems whenever I do fmc. I just get a 60 move odd solution and I only look for one



Then obviously you don't do FMC.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 5, 2012)

emolover said:


> Why is this not working? Is there some special rule I can't find? Could someone please tell me what I am doing wrong so I can stop bothering this thread.



I can't figure out what you're trying to accomplish with those insertions. It looks like you're moving the corners around, but not to places that actually would make any sense. How are you working out your insertions?

You need to start with the finished state, after you've done your whole solve (minus the insertions, with the corners still bad), and then pick three corner stickers. Then you need to find a place in the solve where those three stickers set up well for an insertion, and add the algorithm there.

For the insertions you have above, it looks almost like you're picking random corners to move around. I'm sure that's not what you're actually doing, but I can't figure out what you're trying to accomplish. Perhaps you could do something like, at each insertion, say "this solves the corners LUF-FDL-RUB for the finished cube", so we'll know what you think you're trying to accomplish. (I picked that example because, to me, that looks like what you solved with your first insertion. Which is strange, because it's a slow, 9 move insertion and it only solves one corner - if you're going to be only solving one corner because you have 6 to solve, I'd think you'd want a really good insertion with both 8 moves and a bunch of cancellations - the single-piece-fix is always going to be your best insertion.


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## Jakube (Jun 5, 2012)

emolover said:


> Why is this not working? Is there some special rule I can't find? Could someone please tell me what I am doing wrong so I can stop bothering this thread.



You can't just write down algs, which solve your corners. And then insert them somewhere in your solution. Your algs only work at the end of your skeleton. 

An insertion works this way. If you want to cycle 3 corners, you have to cycle the actual pieces and not only the positions. 

An example: 
Scramble: R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 L2 U R2 (WG-orientation)
Solution:
All but 3 corners: R2 U' L2 (3 moves)
You have to cycle UBL->UFR->URB. (=White-Green-Red -> White-Red-Blue -> White-Blue-Orange)
You can just do the cycle at the end with an A-perm: R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R, which would give you a 3+9=12 move solution (R2 U' L2 R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R)
Your idea of insertion (which ist wrong) would be to insert the alg right after R2, so your solution would be (*R2 R2* B2 R F R' B2 R F' R U' L2 = B2 R F R' B2 R F' R U' L2 = 10 moves. 
But this doesn't work. Why? Just scramble the cube with R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 L2 U R2 and apply R2. If you would insert the A-Perm right here, you would cycle UBL->UFR->URB which are now the Yellow-Orange-Blue, White-Blue-Orange, Yellow-Green-Orange. But you don't want to cycle these. You want to cycle the White-Green-Red, White-Red-Blue and White-Blue-Orange. These corners are now on the positions DFL, ULF and UFR. So now you have to cycle DFL, ULF and UFR. Which isn't an 8-mover. Normally you only have to look for 8-mover. There just (much) shorter. 
Next try to insert them after U':
Your 3 corners (White-Green-Red, White-Red-Blue and White-Blue-Orange) are now on the positions DFL, UFR and URB. These 3 corners you can cycle with F2 R B R' F2 R B' R' (8 moves). So your solution would be: R2 U' F2 R B R' F2 R B' R' L2 (11 moves), which is the optimum for this scramble. 
With a bit of searching you can find in your skeleton more 8-move insertion which can cancel more moves. This 3-move skeleton is a bad example for cancellation. 

The important thing is: Trace the corners you want to cycle. 
Note: Most people use stickers for tracing. This is also allowed on official attempts.

By the way, the optimum insertion for your skeleton would be: 
L2 B F2 [@1] L' U' L D' L' R2 B R' B' D R D R
Insert at @1: D2 L' U' L D2 L' U L
After the 1st insertion: L2 B F2 [@2] D2 L' U' L D L' R2 B R' B' D R D R
Insert at @2: B D F' D' B' D F D'
After the 2nd insertion: L2 B2 F2 D [@3] F' D' B' D F D L' U' L D L' R2 B R' B' D R D R
Insert at @3: D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F
Fewest moves: 28. 12 moves cancelled
The final solution: L2 B2 F2 D' F' U' F D2 F' U D' B' D F D L' U' L D L' R2 B R' B' D R D R


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## CuberMan (Jun 5, 2012)

my official 27 moves FMC at Bandung Open 2012  really happy with the result, coz usually I averages around 37 moves

Scramble: U2 F2 U' F2 D' L2 D2 B2 F2 U' B' R' D2 R F' D' B R D2

Solution: U' F U F R' U' B2 D z U L F R' F' L' R U R U' R' z' F' D F2 D' L2 U' F' U'
//explanation:
//2x2x3 block: U' F U F R' U' B2 D
//(switch to inverse scramble)
//Finish F2L: U F U L2 D F2 D' F
//OLL: z R U R' U' R' L R' F R F' L'
//AUF: U'
//inverse all to get solution


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## Jakube (Jun 5, 2012)

CuberMan said:


> my official 27 moves FMC at Bandung Open 2012  really happy with the result, coz usually I averages around 37 moves



Somethings wrong with the link.


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## Cubenovice (Jun 5, 2012)

emolover said:


> Ugg, I am just not getting it.
> Is there some special rule I can't find? Could someone please tell me what I am doing wrong so I can stop bothering this thread.



Here's a small exercise for you 

Scramble: B2 R2 U L2 D U2 B2 R B D F2 D U F' L' F' L R2 U

B' U' B' U2 B2 - cross
D2 F' D2 F - 1st pair
B D B' F D' F' - 2nd pair
D2 R D' R' - 3nd pair
L' D L D' - 4th pair leaves 3C at 23 HTM

Makes skeleton B' U' B' U2 B2 D2 F' D2 F B D B' F D' F' D2 R D' R' L' D L D' 

Now physically put stickers labelled 1 - 2 - 3 or A - B - C onto the three remaining corners.
Starting with an arbitrary face of a corner, you are now going to sticker the cycle.

For ease of discussion/help lateron please sticker according the example below:

sticker 1 - place on the orange face of the of orange-green-yellow corner
Where should this orange sticker be? What sticker is occupying its spot?
This is where sticker 2 goes...

sticker 2 - place on the orange face of the of orange-yellow-blue corner
repeat
Where should this sticker be? What sticker is occupying its spot?
This is where sticker 3 goes...

sticker 3 - place on the red face of the red-yellow-green corner

check your cycle: where does this sticker belong? sticker 1 should be there: cycle is closed

Now for insertion-hunting you can either work backwards through the solution or re-scramble and work forwards. For beginners I recommend to go forward.

Now go hunting!!!

Don't click the spoiler below until you have found at leas 4 possible insertions!



Spoiler



. B' U' B' U2 B2 : D2 F' D2 + F B D B' # F @ D' $ F' D2 R D' R' L' D L D' 

. R B2 R' F' R B2 R' F - 8 mover cancel 0 
: R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 - 8 mover cancel 2 
+ R' B2 R F R' B2 R F' - 8 mover cancel 2 
# L' F' R' F L F' R F - 8 mover cancel 1 
@ F U F' D F U' F' D' - 8 mover cancel 2 
$ D F U F' D F U' F' D2 - 9 mover cancel 3 

$ is just a longer version of @ giving the exact same end result.
It is very unlikely* that there are no 8 move commutators in a skeleton

*but not impossible, I think i have only seen 2 occasions


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## ilikecubing (Jun 6, 2012)

Got a decent start where about half of the cube is solved in 13 moves

Scramble:U2 L2 R' U F' B U B2 D U B2 U2 L R F2 U' R L D' L R' D' R' F B

U' L D' R U2 L2 U B U' B'
F' U F2

Having a hard time in finding finishes.

How possibly could I proceed from here?


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## Lid (Jun 6, 2012)

ilikecubing said:


> Got a decent start where about half of the cube is solved in 13 moves
> 
> Scramble:U2 L2 R' U F' B U B2 D U B2 U2 L R F2 U' R L D' L R' D' R' F B
> 
> ...


After U' L D' R U2 L2 U B U' B', U2 makes the last F2L pair, but if you first separate the pair & corner with L' U L you get:
L' U L U2 F' U2 F2
last F2L pair: U R' [F R F'
COLL: F R' F'] r U R U' r' = 6 moves canceled

24 moves total


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## ncube (Jun 13, 2012)

D' L2 R' F D' L2 B U' L' B2 L' B2 D' R U B' L2 B2 U B' R L' F2 B2 U'
(stupid qqtimer scramble)
Double x-cross: x2 y D R U R' F2 U2 R2
f2l1: U’ R U’ R’ U R
f2l2: y’ R U’ R’ U R U R’
COLL → EPLL skip: y2 R’ U R2 D r’ U2 r D’ R2’ U’ R

can someone find a better solution?


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## mycube (Jun 13, 2012)

found a solution with a LL-Skip. But you can't do this in a speedsolve:

x2 y D R U R' L F2 L' - pseudocross
F R' F R' F' U' F' D2 B U' B' D2 - TXCross
U L' U R' U L U' R U2 L' U2 L U - F2L-Pair4 + forced LL-Skip
=41 Moves


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## Sebastien (Jun 13, 2012)

Crazy Scramble...

Crazy start: D R F' R' F U D R2

5 corners: F D F D' F2

optimal insertion bring 7 move cancelation --> 22

Or crazy finish: D F2 D' U R F2 R' F2 U' F R F' R'

--> 21 moves


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## BQ (Jun 22, 2012)

Here're the scrambles of PKU FM 2012. 

1. R2 B D2 B' D2 F2 L' U R2 F' D' R' D' R2 B' R2 F2 U B2
2. L B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 D' F' R U' B2 U2 L' B' U L D2 F2
3. B2 F' D2 L2 R2 F2 D2 L2 B D2 F' D' B' U2 R' B2 D2 B D'

I luckily got a solution of 25 moves and broke the AsR in the first try. The following is my solution:

222: F2 L B' R' F
Inverse it and go on building block:
B L' D' L2 B2 D' B' D' L D L D' B D
Remained 3 corners:
D' L U' L ' D L U L'
Final solution:
F2 L B' R' F L U' L' D' L U L' B' D L' D' L' D B D B2 L2 D L B'


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## Sebastien (Jun 22, 2012)

doesnt work for me with the scramblie you provided.

Edit: Taking the inverse of your solution as scramble your insertion is optimal. Did you search within the whole skeleton?


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## BQ (Jun 22, 2012)

Sebastien said:


> doesnt work for me with the scramblie you provided.
> 
> Edit: Taking the inverse of your solution as scramble your insertion is optimal. Did you search within the whole skeleton?



Sorry I mixed the scrambles. The first two should be exchange. I've corrected them now.

When I found the skeleton, there's only about 10mins to find the insertions and obvious the insertion canceled 2 moves so I wrote the solution down immediately. After that I tried to find a better insertion but failed. In fact, I used the Insertion Finder to search the optimal insertion and found out it's the same as mine.


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## Julian (Jun 25, 2012)

B' U R U B2 R B U' L' D L2 D R2 B2 D R2 L2 B2 U'

. F L , U' B U2 B' R' U2 F2 U' // 2x2x3 (10/10)
R D2 B' D R' D R B D' // F2L (19/19)
F' U F D' F' U' F D R // L3E (28/28)

Insert B' R2 B F' U2 F @ "." to cancel 1 move.

At this point I ran out of time, but soon after I found a 3-corner insertion to replace the underlined moves: insert L' D R D' L D R' D' @ "," to cancel 2 moves.


Final solution: B' R2 B F' U2 F2 L U' B U2 B' R' U2 F2 U' R D2 B' D R' D R B D' F' U F D' F' U' F D R (*33 HTM*)

With extra insertion: B' R2 B F' U2 F2 D R D' L D R' D' U' B U2 B' R' U2 F2 U' R D2 B' D R' D R B D' R (*31 HTM*)


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## Ranzha (Jun 26, 2012)

First attempt on THIS scramble got me a 30 FMC.
D' L2 B2 D' L2 U R2 D2 L2 F2 R' B U F' L2 U' B2 U R' U2

y F2 R' F' R2 B L' // Rouxblock [6]
U D F U2 x2 // 2x2x3 [4/10]
y' R' F R F' R U2 R' U' R // EOF2L [9/19]
y R U2 R' U2 L' U R U' R' L // COLL [10/29]
U // EPLL [1/30]

Took about five minutes. Almost linear.


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## jonlin (Jun 26, 2012)

I might sound noobish... but what's a skeleton? I looked around the forums and I still have no clue.


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## pdilla (Jun 26, 2012)

Next: U B2 F' R2 D' B' R' D2 R2 B2 L' D' F R L2 F2 R B F2 D' F L2 F B D'

x2 // insp
F2 D' L R2 D2 // 2x2x2
y' R' U R U2 R // 2x2x3
y' U' R U R' U2 R2 U' // pairs
F R' F' R' U' // setup
y R U2 r' F M' U // fin
alg.garron
28 HTM

This was one of my solves off the example solve thread.


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## Ninja Storm (Jun 26, 2012)

jonlin said:


> I might sound noobish... but what's a skeleton? I looked around the forums and I still have no clue.



It's essentially a basis for getting most of the pieces solved in as few moves as possible. Then, you find ways to solve the last few pieces while retaining the skeleton.


...I think.


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## mDiPalma (Jun 26, 2012)

i didn't want to ask this in the q&a thread because i thought id get a better answer here:

what does "NISS" stand for?


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 26, 2012)

mDiPalma said:


> i didn't want to ask this in the q&a thread because i thought id get a better answer here:
> 
> what does "NISS" stand for?



"Normal Inverse Scramble Switch".
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=428682&viewfull=1#post428682


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## Sebastien (Jun 28, 2012)

I just got this in the German forum competition. Possibly the best (and luckiest) edge insertion ever! 

Scramble: U L2 D B2 R' D' F2 B U F2 D L2 U' L2 B2 D' B2 R2 D' 

2x2x2: F2 R' . U' D B' D B
2x2x3: F2 R' D R
Pseudo F2L-1: R L' F L F' R'
U-Perm: D B D' B' L' D L'

. = L2 U' D F2 U D'

Zusammen: F2 R' L2 U' D F2 B' D B F2 R' D R2 L' F L F' R' D B D' B' L' D L'

25 moves


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## Ranzha (Jul 7, 2012)

1.	U F2 L2 D F2 L2 U L2 D2 U' R' F D' U' R B2 U' L' F R2 U2	

x2 F2 U F2 U' D L D2 // 2x2x2 [7]
F U2 L F2 L F L' F' y2 // 2x2x3 [8/15]
R U' R' U' R2 U2 R2 U F R2 F' // EOF2L [11/26]
y' r' U' R U L U' R' U F' // ZBLL [9/35]

2.	D' L2 B2 D' L2 U R2 D2 L2 F2 R' B U F' L2 U' B2 U R' U2

y F2 R' F' R2 B L' // Rouxblock [6]
U D F U2 x2 // 2x2x3 [4/10]
y' R' F R F' R U2 R' U' R // EOF2L [9/19]
y R U2 R' U2 L' U R U' R' L // COLL [10/29]
U // EPLL [1/30]

Is there any way I could've made these better? They were both ridiculously lucky.


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## okayama (Jul 7, 2012)

Saarland Open 2012 scramble: D2 L2 B R2 U2 F' L2 U2 B2 L2 F' D L2 B U L' U2 L' F' R'

Extremely good scramble. Quite many nice starts were found both on normal and inverse.
Actually Tim found 24 moves (18 moves to leave 3 corners) and Sébastien found
25 moves (17 moves to leave 4 corners). Congrats! Maybe their solutions will follow.

Unfortunately I couldn't find any good solution in time. Some of my attempts:


Spoiler



[1]
2x2x2 block: B D' F' R' and F2 makes c/e pair.

[2]
1st square: R D2 F
2nd square: B'

[3]
1st square: R' F'
2nd square: B'
c/e pair: U R U'
2x2x3 block: F D' F' L2

Then still there're many continuations. For example

Finish F2L: L' U' L U' F' U' F', or
Finish F2L: L' R U' L R' F' U F, or
Finish F2L: L' R U' L U' R' F' U F, or
Finish F2L: L' R U' L U B U B' R' and so on, 

but I did not investigate so much after that in reality.

[4]
In most of my time I investigated this one.

Pre-scramble: R'

2x2x1 block: B2 U' B'
2x2x2 block: D'
2x2x3 block: F'

On inverse, I found F2L-1 + EO in two ways. So on normal,

Pre-scramble: L2 U B L2 B' U' R' or
Pre-scramble: L2 U F U2 F' U' R'

and the start B2 U' B' D' F' makes it. I searched continuation several times
after that, but I couldn't find any good finish in time.

The clock was ticking, and I decided to write down a safe solution as follows.

Pseudo 2x2x3 block: B2 U' B' D' F'
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: L' F U' F' U2 L (***)
All but 5 corners: R' U B' U B + U2

17 moves, but no time to search good insertions, so just did:

Insert at the beginning: L' F' L B2 L' F L B2
Insert at +: B L' B R2 B' L B R2 B2 (A-perm)

Solution: L' F' L B2 L' F L U' B' D' F' L' F U' F' U2 L R' U B' U B2 L' B R2 B' L B R2 B2 U2 (31 moves)

When I wrote down the solution almost no time was left...
According to Insertion Finder, the optimal insertions are:

B2 U' B' D' F' L' [@1] F U' F' U2 L R' U B' U B U2
Insert at @1: L' F2 L B L' F2 L B'
After the 1st insertion: B2 U' B' D' F' L2 F2 L B L' F2 L F [@2] B' U' F' U2 L R' U B' U B U2
Insert at @2: U' F' U B' U' F U B
Fewest moves: 25. 8 moves cancelled


After 1-hour, Arnaud showed interest in the start above,
and found some nice finish as follows:

Pre-scramble: U2 R'

Start: B2 U' B' D' [U2] F' (U2 inserted)
Finish F2L: L' U' L B' U B
All but 3 corners: U B L B' L' U' L
Correction: U2 R'

21 moves to leave 3 corners.
And another one he found:

Pre-scramble: L' R'

Start: B2 U' B' D' F'
F2L minus 1 slot: L' F U' F' U2 L2 (exactly the same as my start (***))
c/e pair + EO: U' L' U2 L
All but 3 corners: F U2 F' U'
Correction: L' R'

also 21 moves to leave 3 corners. Well done Arnaud!
(Both skeletons give 27-move solutions)

And I'm disappointed at my result again, I'm now getting into a slump both online and official...


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## EMI (Jul 7, 2012)

The scramble really was awesome. Adrian found a 15-moves F2L and I found an 18-moves F2L. We're both not really good at FMC though 
Adrian's solution: 
Scramble: D2 L2 B R2 U2 F' L2 U2 B2 L2 F' D L2 B U L' U2 L' F' R'
z' F' D2 F2 L' 
U R U R2 
L' U2 L2 U' L' U R
(he used edge control in his final solution anyway)
My solution:
R' B' U R D'
U' F' L U L 
U F' U' F
U2 F U F'
(I also used different insertions in the end, anyway, just to show you how awesome this scramble was )


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## mycube (Jul 7, 2012)

is this the scramble of the saarland open fmc?


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## Tim Reynolds (Jul 7, 2012)

Here's my NAR 24 from Saarland:

Scramble: D2 L2 B R2 U2 F' L2 U2 B2 L2 F' D L2 B U L' U2 L' F' R'


Spoiler



Solution: D' F D F' R2 F R2 F' R2 B' D' B' U2 B D' B' U2 B' D F2 L2 F U' R (24)
Use the inverse scramble:
2x2x2: R' U F' L2 (4|4)
2x2x3: F2 D' B' * D2 B (5|9)
F2L-1: R2 F R2 F' R2 (5|14)
F2L and LL edges: F D' F' D (4|18)

Insert B' U2 B D B' U2 B D' (6) at * for 2 moves cancellation = 24.



I think we got WR podium: 24 + 25 + 29 (Jan Bentlage) = 78


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## Sebastien (Jul 7, 2012)

My 25 move solution:

I'm especially happy about it, because it did something within this attempt I had never done before, not even at home. And apparently this helped a lot!

2x2x2 on Inverse: R' U F' L2
Switch and 4 corners: U F' U' F2 D' F2 D . F2 B' D2 B D F'

I wasn't satisfied with the amount of cancelling moves for the insertions I found in there and the Insertion Finder confirms me, that 28 moves is optimal for that skeleton. BUT:

I quickly saw that . = D' F2 D B' D' F2 D B, which cycles my not solved pieces but in a not helping way cancels A LOT of moves, indeed it cancels 8 moves and so I decided to insert this and get a slightly different skeleton:

4 corners: U F' U' F2 B' D' F2 . D F2 D2 B : D F' L2 F U' R

. = F2 R' B' R F2 R' B R
: = B' D F D' B D F' D'

Solution: U F' U' F2 B' D' R' B' R F2 R' B R D F2 D' F D' B D F2 L2 F U' R


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## TMOY (Jul 9, 2012)

I didn't find anthing great on that scramble, but I also did something I've never done before, that is a "corners first" solution where I don' actually solve the corners (and no, it's not the reason why I DNF'd )

More precisely, I did:
x" y' Dw L2 D L B2 (5): corners orientation and separation on red/orange
U' D': x (2) well, no, I finally prefer white/yellow
Dw2 L E' L' (5): 2 edges
U D2 L 
[*] E' L2 E L (9) 2 more edges
B2 E B2 D' (5): middle layer

That makes 26 HTM to solve the cube up to 2 corners and 2 edges. Is there a good way to make such an insertion ? The best I can find is setuping it inti a T-perm at 
[*] which gives a 35 HTM solution (and I didn't find it at the comp because of lack of time).


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## Sebastien (Jul 9, 2012)

Just try out the insertion finder. I have no possibility to look up myself right now, sorry.


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## cuber952 (Jul 11, 2012)

Many times I am left with a U-perm at the end FMC's. Is there a way to insert the U-perm into the solution earlier using only 8 moves?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 11, 2012)

cuber952 said:


> Many times I am left with a U-perm at the end FMC's. Is there a way to insert the U-perm into the solution earlier using only 8 moves?



These are generally not such good insertions, and many of the good FMCers never look for them. But there are a few people who really like them (those are usually the ones who want us to switch to counting slice-turn moves ).

However, sometimes these can be awesome. Look for cases where you can use M' U2 M U2 and related commutators. Then you can sometimes get 6 moves! Even with a single move setup, these usually beat normal commutators, if they exist somewhere. The problem is that often they don't exist.


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## Julian (Jul 11, 2012)

cuber952 said:


> Many times I am left with a U-perm at the end FMC's. Is there a way to insert the U-perm into the solution earlier using only 8 moves?


It depends if you can find a point in the skeleton where the 3 stickers are in a good relation to each other. M' U2 M U2 (or R' F2 R L' U2 L) is a 3cycle of edges and only 6 moves HTM.


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## Sebastien (Jul 11, 2012)

cuber952 said:


> Many times I am left with a U-perm at the end FMC's. Is there a way to insert the U-perm into the solution earlier using only 8 moves?



http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=756974&viewfull=1#post756974

yes, it is possible to insert a U-Perm with very few moves


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## Mollerz (Jul 14, 2012)

Weston-Super-Mare Open scramble:

B2 D F2 L2 B2 R2 U2 L U' F R' B2 L' B R F2 U' F2 D'

Podium was Robert Yau with 26, then Daniel Sheppard and Thom Barlow with 27.

Rob found a LL case he knew, Thom got F R U R' U' F' last layer (Same solution but with a different last F2L to Rob. Daniel did a "proper FMC" solution as he said (NISS + Insertions). They all used roughly the same block, you'll be able to find it reasonably fast. They will post their solutions when they get back.


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## mande (Jul 14, 2012)

Just tried the WR scramble...
Scramble: L' F2 R B2 D2 L' B2 U B2 L B' R' U B2 D' R U B'

Solution: B D' L' F2 B R' U' L U' L' U2 F R L' U2 R' L F U' F U F L' B' D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B L B' L = 35 moves

Explanation:
2x2x2: B D' L' F2 B R'
Leave 3 edges and 3 corners: U' L U' L' (*) U F U F L' (**) B L B' L

Insert at (*) U2 F R L' U2 R' L F U2
Insert at (**) B' D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2

I was pretty happy with the 19 move skeleton, but really really disappointed not to find any insertions with moves cancelling...can anyone find good insertions in this skeleton?


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## ardi4nto (Jul 15, 2012)

mande said:


> Just tried the WR scramble...
> Scramble: L' F2 R B2 D2 L' B2 U B2 L B' R' U B2 D' R U B'
> 
> Solution: B D' L' F2 B R' U' L U' L' U2 F R L' U2 R' L F U' F U F L' B' D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B L B' L = 35 moves
> ...



Insertion finder found:
B D' L' F2 B R' U' L U' L' U F U F L' B L [@1] B' L
Insert at @1: L B' U D' R B' R' U' D B
After the 1st insertion: B D' L' F2 B R' U' L U' L' U F U F L' B L2 B' [@2] U D' R B' R' U' D L
Insert at @2: L2 U R U' L2 U R' U'
Fewest moves: 32. 5 moves cancelled
The final solution: B D' L' F2 B R' U' L U' L' U F U F L' B L2 B' L2 U R U' L2 U R' D' R B' R' U' D L


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## Cubenovice (Jul 15, 2012)

Mollerz said:


> Weston-Super-Mare Open scramble:
> 
> B2 D F2 L2 B2 R2 U2 L U' F R' B2 L' B R F2 U' F2 D'
> 
> ...



could it be:
D R U' R2 // roux 4
B' F' L' B2 // 2x2x3 8
R2 U' R2 U // premove R makes F2L-1 in 12+1 moves
from there many options

edit:
much better to swith after the 2x2x3 block because 4 moves for F2L-one edge + EO:
Inverse with premoves B2 L F B R2 U R' D'
R' D' F2 D // F2L-1 with EO 12
R2 F' R F R2 // leaves 5 corners 17
IF said 27 HTM

or do sune to solve corners of the F2L-edge 

rediculous:
// premoves B2 L F B R2 U R' D'
R' D' F2 D // F2L-1 12 = F2L- edge
D R2 D' R' D R' D' R // 4E in 19 moves

IF said 25 HTM with *crazy* insertions…
R' D' F2 D2 R2 [@1] D' R' D R' D' R B2 L F B R2 U R' D'
Insert at @1: B U F R' F' U' B' D' R D
After the 1st insertion: R' D' F2 D2 R2 B U [@2] F R' F' U' B' R' D' R B2 L F B R2 U R' D'
Insert at @2: U D' L F' L' U' D F R F'
Fewest moves: 25. 14 moves cancelled
The final solution: R' D' F2 D2 R2 B U2 D' L F' L' U2 D B' R' D' R B2 L F B R2 U R' D'


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## kinch2002 (Jul 16, 2012)

Mollerz said:


> Weston-Super-Mare Open scramble: B2 D F2 L2 B2 R2 U2 L U' F R' B2 L' B R F2 U' F2 D'


*Robert Yau: 26 moves =NR*
2x2x3: D' R U' D2 R' F' B' L' B2 (9)
F2L: R2 U' R' U R D R2 D' (17)
OLLCP (EPLL skip): D R B R' B2 D' B R2 B R2 B' R' (26)

*Thom Barlow: 27 moves*
2x2x3: D' R U' D2 R' F' B' L' B2 (9)
F2L: R2 D U' R' U R D' R D R D' (20)
LL: U R F R' F' U' R (27)

*Daniel Sheppard: 27 moves*
2x2x3: D2 R U' D' R' B' F' L' B2 (9)
Switch to inverse with premoves B2 L F B R D U R' D2
F2L-1: R F' (11)
Switch back to normal with premoves F R'
F2L-1: D2 R U' D' R' *B' F' L' B2
F2L: F' R U' R' U (16)
Leave 3 corners: U' F2 U F U' F U (21)
Insert D F D' B' D F' D' B at * to cancel 2 moves. 21+8-2 = 27 moves

I did find that easy F2L using the very slightly different 2x2x3, but couldn't find a good ending with it unlike them
32, 29, 28, 26, 27 = 28 avg5 official  At the rate I do FM attempts, I'll be done with a decent avg12 sometime during Autumn 2013 :/

I think this is the 3rd best podium (80 total) after Saarland (78) and Czech (79) from the last couple of weeks. Also the best 3rd place result


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## Mollerz (Jul 16, 2012)

Mollerz said:


> Weston-Super-Mare Open scramble:
> 
> B2 D F2 L2 B2 R2 U2 L U' F R' B2 L' B R F2 U' F2 D'



So my 2x2x3 + EO was 11 moves:

R U' F D' B F R' F L' U L

Found nothing afterwards spamming like 14 skeletons. Daniel linear solved at got like 30 or something at McDonalds afterwards but we never looked into it properly. Interesting to see if you guys find anything.


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## Julian (Jul 17, 2012)

(premoves D2 B2) U B2 L2 U F2 U2 L2 B2 D' B2 D' B' D L D2 U' B2 R' B' L' D2

L' D L2 // 2x2x2 (3/3)
R2 D2 F' . D2 F2 D' // 2x2x3 (6/9)
F U R F2 R' U' F // F2L-1 (7/16)
R F' R2 F R2 // L3C (5/21)
D2 B2 // Fix (2/23)

Insert L' U2 L D' L' U2 L D at "." to cancel 1 move.

Final solution: L' D L2 R2 D2 F' L' U2 L D' L' U2 L D' F2 D' F U R F2 R' U' F R F' R2 F R2 D2 B2 (*30 HTM*)


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## Ranzha (Jul 24, 2012)

1.	U2 F L2 D2 R2 B2 L2 B D2 L' F' U' L' D R B' D2 B'
alg.garron
D2 F' ^ * F' L2 D B' L U' // 2x2x2 [7]
z2 y R2 U R2 F R' F' // 3x-cross on green [6/13]
U2 R U' R' U R' U' // WV on green [7/20]
R2 // ARF [1/21]
Insert (F U2 F' D F U2 F' D') at ^ to cycle corners
Insert (L2) at * to form 2x2x3

Final solution: D2 U2 F' D F U2 F' D' L2 F' L2 D B' L U' B2 D B2 L B' L' D2 B D' B' D B' D' B2 [29f]
Time: 37:56

2.	D U2 R2 D' B2 F2 R2 U' B2 U R' F' D2 B U B R D2 L' F
alg.garron
D F' B' D2 R D' B' U' D R' L' // 3x-cross [11]
L' U' L U' L' U L // 4th pair [7-1 = 6/17]
R' F' U' F U R // ELL [6/23]
R' F' L' F R F' L F // CLL [8-2 = 6/29]
U // AUF [1/30]

Final solution: D F' B' D2 R D' B' U' D R' L2 U' L U' L' U L R' F' U' F U F' L' F R F' L F U [30f]
Time: 12:06
This one was way too easy. I don't even wanna optimize from here.


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## kinch2002 (Jul 24, 2012)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> 2.	D U2 R2 D' B2 F2 R2 U' B2 U R' F' D2 B U B R D2 L' F
> D F' B' D2 R D' B' U' D R' L' // 3x-cross [11]


EO and pair: L' U2 L F U2 F' (17)
F2L: U L' U L (21)
LL: F U2 F' U' F U' F' U2 (*28*)

OR
Solve edges: L F' L' F2 U R U' R' F' (18)
5 corners left. Insertion finder gives *26* moves total.


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## Ranzha (Jul 25, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> EO and pair: L' U2 L F U2 F' (17)
> F2L: U L' U L (21)
> LL: F U2 F' U' F U' F' U2 (*28*)
> 
> ...



Zomg that's amazing! Thanks =D
This is what I get for stopping once finding a sub-35 solution xD


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## cubernya (Jul 25, 2012)

Can someone explain NISS to me? I know what it stands for, but haven't really understood how the different parts fit together


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## Cubenovice (Jul 26, 2012)

Use search function?

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...MC-thread&p=526958&viewfull=1&ss=858j246362j5


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## cubernya (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm sure somebody could find a better solution

Scramble: D2 B2 D R' D L B L' U B R F2 U' R2 U' L2 D2 B2
Solution: L2 B2 L' F' L B2 L2 F U' F' U' R' U' R' U2 F2 U L2 D U

On inverse
U' D' L2 // 2x2x2 (3/3)
U' F2 U2 R U R U F // F2L-1 (8/11)
U F' L * F L' // 4th pair (5/16)

Insert at *: L B2 L' F L B2 L' F'


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## kinch2002 (Jul 31, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> Scramble: D2 B2 D R' D L B L' U B R F2 U' R2 U' L2 D2 B2


Premove D'
2x2x3: F L' U' L U L2 U (7)
F2L: D R D' R' D2 (12)
Pretty good start. No time right now to finish


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## Cubenovice (Jul 31, 2012)

Found the same start as Daniel :0

For a second or two I hoped the fat sune was the 8 move LL...


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## PandaCuber (Aug 3, 2012)

I wanna know if you guys can help me, My goal is to get more sub 40 moves solves with roux(so far ive only gotten 1). 
Whats something i should look for, learn,etc?


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## 5BLD (Aug 3, 2012)

Look for cancellations with CMLL and solve the blocks at the same time. Try using different cmlls to make LSE shorter. Try inserting algs... If you post a scramble i can show you how I'd do it, I'm not a FMC guy but yeh i can get sub-40 easily...

You can also do NISS but I don't think it looks pretty so I don't use it. I've gotten lots of 31s and a 30 without it tho.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 3, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> I wanna know if you guys can help me, My goal is to get more sub 40 moves solves with roux(so far ive only gotten 1).
> Whats something i should look for, learn,etc?



First a question: Do you want to reduce movecount in speedsolves or specifically FMC?
For the latter you typically should not limit yourself to a fixed method (altough in general blockbuilding works best)

But to stay in Roux; some usefull things could be
solve color neutral
Insertions A: single moves
Try inserting "random" moves into your blocks to check if they give better continuation in later steps:
Suppose you have a made an optimal 1x2x3 block in 6 moves but 2nd block looks nasty
In these 6 moves you can check (typically from the back) if there is a place where you can insert a face turn without affecting any block-pieces.
Now make your block with this face in all three remaining positions and check the result.
With a little luck you may find a drastic improvement for your 2nd block.
You can do the same at the 2nd block
Experiment with different algs at the CMLL stage; you can even try (short) algs of which you know they will not even fully solve the case.
If you just solve one corner and have a good result on edges you may be better off than with all corners solved and lousy edges.
Insertions B: cycles
If you have one corner oriented correctly after the 2nd block you could AUF to put it in the right pot and check if the remaining three are a 3-cycle.
If so you can solve them (temporary) with a comm and then check for a better insertion later.
Same when your solve ends on an edge 3-cycle: check your solution for possible insertions of the cycle.
NISS
Make sure to look up the FMC wiki page: it has links to some good threads with FMC info


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## PandaCuber (Aug 3, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> First a question: Do you want to reduce movecount in speedsolves or specifically FMC?



Both. But I just want to be more efficient in general. 

@5BLD, R L B' D' L2 U B2 L D R2 F' D2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B R2 
Taken from example solve page


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## Cubenovice (Aug 3, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Both. But I just want to be more efficient in general.



OK

Having a peek at your sub 40, I hope you don't mind a little analysis:



PandaCuber said:


> x'z'MBM2DLU2
> xU'r'U'r2U2RU'r2URU'R'
> U'R2DR'U2RD'R'U2R'
> M'UMUM'U'M'U'M2U'r2U2M'U2M
> =39




Ehm, I count 43 moves in STM, 52 in HTM

If you use spaces in between move ypour solutions are better to read/count:
x'z'M B M2 D L U2
x U' r' U' r2 U2 R U' r2 U R U' R' +
U' R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' #
M' U M U M' U' M' U' M2 U' r2 U2 M' U2 M

Nice 1st block
While building the 2nd block I see lots and lots of blocks not being used.
In FMC you need to seize thos blocks
But sticking to Roux...
You are forgiven for not spotting the opportunity at +
But # you should have spotted
Check out U2 B2 at + - leaves 3E 3C
Check out U' B2 at # - leaves just three edges!

Insertion finder said
39 HTM for +
34 HTM for #

BTW insertion finder cannot solve your notation.
I had to manually rewrite the solution for IF to work



Spoiler



scramble
D' L2 R2 F2 D F2 R2 D U2 L2 U' B R B' D2 L' D2 F U B R


B' F L B2 F2 D B U2 
L' B' U' B2 D2 F D' B2 U F U' +
U' F2 D F' U2 F D' F' U2 F' #


#
B' F L B2 F2 D B U2 L' B' U' [@1] B2 D2 F D' B2 U F U' F' U' F2 D F' U2 F D' F' U2 F' U' B2
Insert at @1: U F R' F' U' B' D' R D B
Fewest moves: 39. 3 moves cancelled
The final solution: B' F L B2 F2 D B U2 L' B' F R' F' U' B' D' R D B' D2 F D' B2 U F U' F' U' F2 D F' U2 F D' F' U2 F' U' B2


+
B' [@1] F L B2 F2 D B U2 L' B' U' B2 D2 F D' B2 U F U' F' U2 B2
Insert at @1: B' D L' D' F' B R D R' F
After the 1st insertion: B2 D L' D' B [@2] F' R D R' F2 L B2 F2 D B U2 L' B' U' B2 D2 F D' B2 U F U' F' U2 B2
Insert at @2: L' F' R F L F' R' F
Fewest moves: 34. 6 moves cancelled
The final solution: B2 D L' D' B L' F' R F L F' D R' F2 L B2 F2 D B U2 L' B' U' B2 D2 F D' B2 U F U' F' U2 B2


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## Attila (Aug 3, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> I wanna know if you guys can help me, My goal is to get more sub 40 moves solves with roux(so far ive only gotten 1).
> Whats something i should look for, learn,etc?


I think, for L6E cases you should use not only M and U moves, because it gives too much HTM moves.
( However, this is not Roux method.)
For example, your solution: (example solve game #2354 )
U2 M U MU' M'U2 M' U M2 U u2M' u2 M' 22 HTM.
My tips:
U M2 U’ B2 U M’ U’ B2 M2 U2 M’ 15 HTM.
or: L R2 D’ R F’ L’ R U L R2 D L D2 13 HTM.


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## 5BLD (Aug 3, 2012)

> @5BLD, R L B' D' L2 U B2 L D R2 F' D2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B R2


z.rF'UR2Er (*insert R move *)F'
but i realised its better off without any.

r2U'M2U'r'U2r'U'R -- someone who knows a lot about LL can finish this nicely but since i dont...

r2U'M2U'R'U2R'U' R or r -cancels with either L' or R' / to cancel two moves I want an alg which starts L'B or R'U/r'U/l'B

i know a cllef which could possibly cancel for this case: LFU'RU'R'U2RUR'UF'L'
another candidate is L' U2 R U' B' U2 B U R' U2 L mirror is R U2 L' U B U2 B' U' L U2 R' 

dump R' U2 L U' F' U2 F U L' U2 (R or r) into it, it cancels 3 moves.
so thats 
zrF'UR2ErF'
r2U'M2U'R'U2R'*U'R 
R'U2*LU'F'U2FUL'U2R

zrF'UR2ErF' 7
r2U'M2U'R'U2R'UL 16
U'F'U2FUL'U2R 24

24 moves to LSE, or 16 moves to LL.

-
for real LSE you want to be using as much Rw as possible by the way.


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## BQ (Aug 3, 2012)

Hi Cubenovice,

Something about insertion finder. As you said,



> BTW insertion finder cannot solve your notation.
> I had to manually rewrite the solution for IF to work



The problem is that the IF considers the lowercase letter moves as the inner slice moves(see notation). You should use Rw instead of r (Uw instead of u and so on) then the IF will work perfectly.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 3, 2012)

THX for clarifying BQ 

IF is a great tool!


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## PandaCuber (Aug 3, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Ehm, I count 43 moves in STM, 52 in HTM



WAHT? I counted wrong?...:fp


> If you use spaces in between move ypour solutions are better to read/count:
> x'z'M B M2 D L U2
> x U' r' U' r2 U2 R U' r2 U R U' R' +
> U' R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' #
> ...



Im not understanding this + & #....


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## Cubenovice (Aug 3, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> WAHT? I counted wrong?...:fp
> Im not understanding this + & #....



Welcome to FMC 

solve until # perform U' L2 instead of M' U M U M' U' M' U' M2 U' r2 U2 M' U2 M
After U' L2 you only have three edges left

or you could solve up to + and perform U2 L2 to leave 3 corners and 3 edges


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## PandaCuber (Aug 4, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Welcome to FMC
> 
> solve until # perform U' L2 instead of M' U M U M' U' M' U' M2 U' r2 U2 M' U2 M
> After U' L2 you only have three edges left



Okay...I did U' L2. 

How would you solve that? Theres more than 3 edges left to solve. Im clueless


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## JasonK (Aug 5, 2012)

U2 L' B2 F2 L' U2 F2 R' U2 R' D2 F U2 B U R D2 U F2

I don't FMC much, but I just got this scramble and I'd be interested to see how the pros solve this - looks like it has some potential


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## IanTheCuber (Aug 5, 2012)

Well, all I know FMC-wise right now is that I am absolutely horrible at it...and that the record FINALLY reached God's Number. Congrats to Tomoaki Okayoma on a 20 move WR!

EDIT: A reply to WTF2L?: I got F2 B' U2 F' L F2 B u R' D B R B' D' B' D B D R D' R' D' L D L' F D L D' L' F' D z2 R' U' R F2 R' U R U F2 U' F2 U' F2 U

LOLOLOL 46 moves?!


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## okayama (Aug 5, 2012)

WTF2L? said:


> U2 L' B2 F2 L' U2 F2 R' U2 R' D2 F U2 B U R D2 U F2
> 
> I don't FMC much, but I just got this scramble and I'd be interested to see how the pros solve this - looks like it has some potential



10 min quick attempt:

Finish F2L: F2 U' R' U' F' L B2 L [@1] B L B2 F2

The rest can be solved linearly by Sune & AntiSune combination:
LL: D R2 D' R' D R' D' / F R F' R F R2 F' R

but leaving 2 twisted corners is better.

All but 2 twisted corners: B R2 [@2] B' R' B R' B' R'
Insert at @1: L F L' B L F' L' B'
Insert at @2: R F R' B' R F' R' B
(with the aid of insertion finder)

Final solution: F2 U' R' U' F' L B2 L2 F L' B L F B' R' F R' B' R F' R2 B R' B' R' (25 HTM)

Not so good for this nice scramble, but this was just a quick attempt.

EDIT: Thanks to IanTheCuber!


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## Brest (Aug 5, 2012)

*US Nationals 2012*

1st scramble
U' R' D' B' L' F R F2 D F' L2 U R2 L2 U' R2 B2 D F2 U2 R2

2nd scramble
L2 D F2 R2 F2 D2 U' B2 U B2 R2 B' L2 B' D' B D R' D U'


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## okayama (Aug 5, 2012)

Brest said:


> *US Nationals 2012*
> 
> 1st scramble
> U' R' D' B' L' F R F2 D F' L2 U R2 L2 U' R2 B2 D F2 U2 R2
> ...



15 min quick attempt for the 2nd scramble, believing X-cross gives a nice skeleton. (judging from the results)

All but 3 corners: U R' L' D L F U2 F2 D2 F2 D F' D2 R D R' D R D R' F' D F D
All but 3 corners: U R' F L' D L U2 F' U' F D2 F' U R D' R' F D2 F' D2 F D F' D2

The former one gives 30 HTM with a proper insertion, and the latter one gives 28 HTM.

EDIT: also tried 1-hour solve using my usual approach:



Spoiler



Pre-scramble: F'

XX-cross: U R' D' L' D2 L F U2
c/e pair: D' R'
More square: D2 R D R
More square: D2
All but 3 corners: R2 D' R D'
Correction: F'

Insert at the beginning: B D' B' U B D B' U'

Final solution: B D' B' U B D B' R' D' L' D2 L F U2 D' R' D2 R D R D2 R2 D' R D' F' (26 HTM)


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## irontwig (Aug 5, 2012)

Brest said:


> *US Nationals 2012*
> 
> 1st scramble
> U' R' D' B' L' F R F2 D F' L2 U R2 L2 U' R2 B2 D F2 U2 R2
> ...



Tricky scrambles, might have DNF'd if I was there.


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## Attila (Aug 5, 2012)

The 2nd. scramble seems lucky for me . I foumd a 8 move solution for corners:
B’ D’ R’ D’ R D2 B2 R2
but I'm too tired to continue now...


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## Cubenovice (Aug 5, 2012)

1st one has this easy 2x2x2 with worst continuation ever...
Perhaps this explains the best solution in 34 htm


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## kinch2002 (Aug 5, 2012)

Brest said:


> *US Nationals 2012*
> 
> 1st scramble
> U' R' D' B' L' F R F2 D F' L2 U R2 L2 U' R2 B2 D F2 U2 R2
> ...


1. F2L-1: U R' B' L D U F U' F' B' R' B' R (13)
Couldn't finish a good skeleton straight away so just gave up because I need to get to bed  Check out the different ways to finish the F2L-1 after the first 9 moves too.

2. Premove F'
2x2x3+EO: U R' D F D' L' D L U2 (9+1)
F2L: R' D' R2 D2 R2 D' R (16+1)
3 corners left R' D' R D' R' D2 R D2 (21+1)
IF gives 27 moves total with an insertion right at the beginning so wouldn't have had any problem finding that one.

You can get a 7 move 2x2x3 using premoves F' U
2x2x3: U R' D F U (5+2)


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## okayama (Aug 6, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> Brest said:
> 
> 
> > *US Nationals 2012*
> ...



Nice block-building start for the 1st scramble.
My linear continuation:

Your start: U R' B' L D U F U' F'
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: B
More c/e pair: L' D2
More square: L' D2 L2
More square: D2
All but 2e2c: L2 B' L B L' B
J-perm: B2 U' B' U B' R2 F D' F' R2

31 HTM, but good enough for the hard scramble.


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## TMOY (Aug 6, 2012)

Attila said:


> The 2nd. scramble seems lucky for me . I foumd a 8 move solution for corners:
> B’ D’ R’ D’ R D2 B2 R2
> but I'm too tired to continue now...



I also found a nice solution for the corners of the first one: F2 U L' U' L' U2 L U2 L2 U'. But continuation just sucks, and edge control during corners doesn't look very promising either..


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## BQ (Aug 6, 2012)

Attila said:


> The 2nd. scramble seems lucky for me . I foumd a 8 move solution for corners:
> B’ D’ R’ D’ R D2 B2 R2
> but I'm too tired to continue now...



just for fun:

B' [@1] D' R' D' R D2 B2 R2
Insert at @1: U' R' B' R U D' F' R F D
After the 1st insertion: B' U' R' B' [@2] R U D' F' R F R' D' R D2 B2 R2
Insert at @2: F' R U D' F' L F U' D R'
After the 2nd insertion: B' U' R' B' F' R U D' [@3] F' L R F R' D' R D2 B2 R2
Insert at @3: U2 F' R L' U B2 U' R' L F
After the 3rd insertion: B' U' R' B' F' R U' D' F' [@4] R L' U B2 U' L2 F R' D' R D2 B2 R2
Insert at @4: F' L' F R L' U' L U R' L
After the 4th insertion: B' U' R' B' F' R U' D' F2 L' F R L' U' L [@5] U2 B2 U' L2 F R' D' R D2 B2 R2
Insert at @5: L2 D2 F' R2 D2 L2 B' U2
Fewest moves: 30. 26 moves cancelled
The final solution: B' U' R' B' F' R U' D' F2 L' F R L' U' L' D2 F' R2 D2 L2 B U' L2 F R' D' R D2 B2 R2


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## okayama (Aug 8, 2012)

Encountered in speedsolving.

Scramble: D' R2 U' L2 B2 D R2 F2 R2 D F L' F2 D2 L D R B' D R'

Pre-scramble: D2

Nice start: B R L U2 D B' U2 L D' L'

Could anyone see any good continuation?

EDIT: found


Spoiler



Nice start: B R L U2 D [@1] B' U2 L [@2] D' L'
All but 4 corners: L' F' L F2 L' F L
Correction: D2

Insert at @1: D2 B' U' B D2 B' U B
Insert at @2: R' D' L2 D R D' L2 D

Final solution: B R L U2 D' B' U' B D2 B' U' L R' D' L2 D R D' F' L F2 L' F L D2 (25 HTM)


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## Attila (Aug 9, 2012)

TMOY said:


> I also found a nice solution for the corners of the first one: F2 U L' U' L' U2 L U2 L2 U'. But continuation just sucks, and edge control during corners doesn't look very promising either..


Try solve with centres:
F2 U L’ U’ L’ U2 R B2 L2 B’
if this invert, (B L2 B2 R’ U2 L U L U’ F2) you got the corners solution for inverse scramble, which gives more chance for lucky start.


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## Evan Liu (Aug 10, 2012)

Brest said:


> *US Nationals 2012*
> 
> 2nd scramble
> L2 D F2 R2 F2 D2 U' B2 U B2 R2 B' L2 B' D' B D R' D U'


Inverse Scramble: U D' R D' B' D B L2 B R2 B2 U' B2 U D2 F2 R2 F2 D' L2

X-Cross: L' F' D' F D' U' B2 D (8, 8)
Pair#2: L F' L' (3, 11)
Rest of F2L, leaving 3 corners: F R F2 R' F D' F' D2 F2 D' (10, 21)

Found this with less than 5 minutes left, so didn't have time to look for insertions; DNF'd anyway (probably inverted incorrectly somewhere).
Insertion finder says no moves would have been cancelled, so that's a slight relief...


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## PandaCuber (Aug 11, 2012)

I was wondering if you guys could help me out with my FMC 'method'. 
I am using classic Roux, no tricks or shortcuts and im noticing that my LSE is horrible. (usually the step with most moves)
Is there another way I can FMC using the 2 roux blocks? Or maybe just the FB?


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## 5BLD (Aug 11, 2012)

F2B=> insert moves to leave 3 corners
Insert more

Or you can simply do FB=>Corners and insert comms.
There isn't really anything wrong with Roux LSE, as long as you make it full or Rw turns it's okay or inserting M moves in F2B or CMLL. OLLCP can be used to force orientation skips, and you can use an insertion to solve ULUR. Step 4c can use Rw turns.


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## irontwig (Aug 11, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> I was wondering if you guys could help me out with my FMC 'method'.
> I am using classic Roux, no tricks or shortcuts and im noticing that my LSE is horrible. (usually the step with most moves)
> Is there another way I can FMC using the 2 roux blocks? Or maybe just the FB?



Here's decent attempt:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...lve-quot-Game!&p=770860&viewfull=1#post770860

Most of the time Snyder/Heise produces better solutions though.


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## cubernya (Aug 11, 2012)

D U2 R2 U' R2 F' U B' L2 F2 D L' F' L' D' R U R2
R2 U' R' D L F L D' F2 L2 B U' F R2 U R2 U2 D'

On inverse
U2 B D' B L D' L2 B2 // 2x2x3 (8)
U' R U2 F' U' // F2L-1 (13)

On normal
U F U2 R' U B2 L2 D L' B' D B' U2 // Premoves (13)
R2 B U F U' F' B' R2 // F2L (8+13)
F // Align edges (9+13)

R2 B @ U F U' F' B' R2 F U F U2 R' + U B2 L2 D L' B' D B' U2
@ = F' D' F U F' D F U' (3 cancelled)
+ = R' D R U2 R' D' R U2 (2 cancelled)
Final: R2 B F' D' F U F' D F2 U' F' B' R2 F U F U2 R2 D R U2 R' D' R U' B2 L2 D L' B' D B' U2 (33)

Could've been much better, but I found the second insertion with 2 minutes left 
Although I'm very happy that I found those insertions...I know all optimal L4C cases and I know that case is 13 turns (and insertions with cancellations is 11, so took 2 turns out)


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## PandaCuber (Aug 12, 2012)

My new FMC PB! Tell me what you guys think! 
Scramble from weekly comp 32
F' D2 R' U D' F' R2 L' B' R2 B2 U2 R2 D' R2 U2 F2 U B2 D 

U B R F U' //FB
z2y' r' U' R U r2 U R' U' R2 B' R' B //NonMatching SB, with Sexy insert
M' U2 M U' M U' M' U' r R //2.5 Look LSE with several cancellations 
alg.garron

Freakin 27 MOVES!!!! I cant believe it. 
This is more than 10 moves less than my previous PB.


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## JasonK (Aug 12, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> My new FMC PB! Tell me what you guys think!
> Scramble from weekly comp 32
> F' D2 R' U D' F' R2 L' B' R2 B2 U2 R2 D' R2 U2 F2 U B2 D
> 
> ...



FMC is measured in HTM, so that's actually 31 moves


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## PandaCuber (Aug 12, 2012)

JasonK said:


> FMC is measured in HTM, so that's actually 31 moves



Shhhhhhhhh! Im counting it as 27.


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## ardi4nto (Aug 12, 2012)

Can anyone open insertion finder now?
I just finished my FMC attempt in Per's website and want to check whether my insertion is optimal or not.
But the server seems goes off. 

here is my attempt on classic scramble
(Don't open if you want to try)


Spoiler



square: U B' L
2x2x3: D R U' B2 L
F2L-1: D B2 D' B
F2L: D' L' F' D' F
OLL: B' * L' F L' F' L2 B
Insert at *: F' R' F L2 F' R F L2
29 moves



Is the insertion efficient?


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## mycube (Aug 12, 2012)

did a FMC-attempt in a facebook-competition and got a ne PB 
D' L F2 B2 U F' U R' F2 B2 D B2 U B2 D F2 D2 B2 L2
L2 B2 D2 F2 D' B2 U' B2 D' B2 F2 R U' F U' B2 F2 L' D

inv: Premove: L2 
L B2 – 2x2x2 [3/3]
D' F' D U F2 – F2L-2 [5/8]
B' R2 F R2 B' – F2L-1 [5/13]
D R D' – EO [3/16]

L5C:
L . B2 D' F' D U : F2 B' R2 F R2 B D R D' L2
. = D' F' D B2 D' F D B2 [8-8/16]
: = D' F' U2 F D F' U2 F [8-1/23]

Inverse Solution:
L D' F' D B2 U D' F' U2 F D F' U2 F' B' R2 F R2 B D R D' L2

Final Solution:
L2 D R' D' B' R2 F' R2 B F U2 F D' F' U2 F D U' B2 D' F D L' – 23 Moves

can't check for optimal insertions because the IF is down but 8 move cancellation for the first insertion is great!


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## Pyjam (Aug 12, 2012)

Scramble : F' L R2 B2 U' D F D2 B2 D B2 F L2 U' D R2 U2 L' B2 U' B2 R' F2 B L

Premove = R'
U' F L B U' D2 L' U D' L U' B2 // (12) F2L -1 slot
R' U R B U' // (17) requires only 2-edge 2-corner swap
B' U2 R' // (20) (almost) solved

I can't find how to swap the 4 pieces. Could you help me?


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## PandaCuber (Aug 12, 2012)

Whats a skeleton?


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## Pyjam (Aug 12, 2012)

The previous post is a skeleton.


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## irontwig (Aug 12, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Whats a skeleton?



A solution to most but not all pieces, for example everything but three corners.


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## irontwig (Aug 12, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> Scramble : F' L R2 B2 U' D F D2 B2 D B2 F L2 U' D R2 U2 L' B2 U' B2 R' F2 B L
> 
> Premove = R'
> U' F L B U' D2 L' U D' L U' B2 // (12) F2L -1 slot
> ...



Best I could find (results in 30 move total): 
U' F L B.U' D2 L' U D' L U' B2 R' U R B U' B' U2 R'
.=B2 L' B R' B' R L B2 R' B' R


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## porkynator (Aug 13, 2012)

I decided to practise some Fewest Moves lately, but so far I've only done 2 real 1-hour attempts. I decided to post them here to get some advice.

Scramble A: F2 L2 D F' R' U' R2 B2 R B2 U' R2 B2 R2 D' R2 D2 L2


Spoiler



Solution 1 (32 HTM):


Spoiler



D' F _//2x2x1 (2/2)_
R' _//2 CE pairs (1/3)_
D' L U2 R U' _//Expands 2x2x1 to 3x2x1 and makes another 2x2x1 (5/8)_
L2 R2 F L' _//F2L-1+EO (4/12)_
U2 R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' _//All but 3 corners(12/24)_
F2 D B' D' F2 D B D' _//Normal commutator, couldn't find any insertion with cancellation(s). (8/32)_
Solution: D' F R' D' L U2 R U' L2 R2 F L' U2 R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' F2 D B' D' F2 D B D' (32 HTM)


Solution 2 (30 HTM, partial):


Spoiler



On inverse scramble
L' R' B U B' U2 _//2x2x2 preserving a pair (6/6)_
L' D F' D2 F D' _//2x2x3 (6/12)_
L2 B2 U B2 U' B _//F2L-1+EO (6/18)_
L2 B L B' _//Makes 2 pairs 2x1x1 (4/22)_
F' L2 B L2 B' L2 F L' _//Pair 3-cycle (8/30)_
At this point I didn't have time to find an insertion, but I knew this solution would be worse than the first one.


Heise FTW!


Scramble B: L2 B L2 B' R2 F U2 B2 D2 R2 B' D' L B2 F R' B' D' L U2 F 


Spoiler



Solution 1 (36 HTM):


Spoiler



R L U' _//2x2x1 (3/3)_
B' D2 _//3x2x1 (2/5)_
L' F U' F2 _//3x2x2 (4/9)_
D B' _//2 Pairs (2/11)_
D2 B2 D' B L B L' F _//All but a 2GLL (misaligned) (8/19)_
D L2 D' L' D L' D' L D L D' L D L2 D' L' F' _//2GLL (and align) (17/36)_
Solution: R L U' B' D2 L' F U' F2 D B' D2 B2 D' B L B L' F D L2 D' L' D L' D' L D L D' L D L2 D' L' F' (36 HTM)


Solution 2 (25 HTM, partial):


Spoiler



R L U' _//2x2x1 (3/3)_
B' D2 _//3x2x1 (2/5)_
L' F U' F2 _//3x2x2 (4/9)_
D B' _//2 Pairs (2/11)_
D2 B2 D' B2 D' B' L B L' //F2L-1+EO (9/20)
D2 L' D2 L D //All but 4 corners (5/25)
I really didn't want to look for 2 insertions, it's just too boring and I'm not so good at it yet.


Solution 3 (33 HTM):


Spoiler



Premove: B'
R L U' _//2x2x1 (3/3)_
B' D2 _//3x2x1 (2/5)_
L' F U' F2 _//3x2x2 (4/9)_
D B' _//2 Pairs (2/11)_
D B' L B2 L' //F2L (5/16)
F L D L' D' F' //CLL (6/22)
R D R' D' R' L B R B' L' //ELL. Couldn't find any cancellation. (10/32)
B //Adjust (1/33)
Solution: R L U' B' D2 L' F U' F2 D B' D B' L B2 L' F L D L' D' F' R D R' D' R' L B R B' L' B (33 HTM)


This time I didn't use Heise (I usually try to start with that method), and I didn't expect the final solution to be a FreeFCE solve.


This is almost all I know about FMC techniques. 1 hour seems to pass so quickly now... I hope it will get better with practise. Suggestions?


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## cubernya (Aug 13, 2012)

porkynator said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll take a shot at these, but I don't feel like searching for insertions right now (and IF is down).


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## ardi4nto (Aug 13, 2012)

irontwig said:


> Best I could find (results in 30 move total):
> U' F L B.U' D2 L' U D' L U' B2 R' U R B U' B' U2 R'
> .=B2 L' B R' B' R L B2 R' B' R



Found better insertion here, results in 29 move total:

Scramble : F' L R2 B2 U' D F D2 B2 D B2 F L2 U' D R2 U2 L' B2 U' B2 R' F2 B L

Premove = R'
U' F L B U' D2 L' U D' L [1] U' B2 // (12) F2L -1 slot
R' U R B U' // (17) requires only 2-edge 2-corner swap
B' U2 R' // (20) (almost) solved

On [1]: U - L2 F' L' F L' U2 R B' R' U2 - U' (J-perm with U conjugate)


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## Pyjam (Aug 13, 2012)

Erik, Ardianto, thanks to both of you. :tu


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## jla (Aug 13, 2012)

SCRAMBLE: D' L F2 B2 U F' U R' F2 B2 D B2 U B2 D F2 D2 B2 L2

y' R' L' U' R2 U2 L' //2X2X2 (6/6)
F' D2 R D //3X2X2 (4/10)
R' F R D R2 D' F R //F2L3 (8/18)
U F2 U' F2 //EP (4/22) (One move cancellation to first corner comm)
R B R' F' R B' //COMM (6/28) (One move cancellation to second corner comm)
R U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U //COMM (8/36)

What could I've done better?


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## Pyjam (Aug 13, 2012)

L D R2 F' D2 L2 B D' F R' B2 D B2 D' R2 L2 B2 L2 U' D2 F2

I was starting a ZZ solve :
U B' R' B' U2 B... 
R2... 

I let you play.


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## Zaterlord (Aug 13, 2012)

How do you use insertions?


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## Pyjam (Aug 13, 2012)

jla said:


> What could I've done better?


After U F2 U' F, use 2 insertions to cycle the corners.



Zaterlord said:


> How do you use insertions?


You ask me?


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## jla (Aug 13, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> After U F2 U' F, use 2 insertions to cycle the corners.



I did use two insertions.

y' R' L' U' R2 U2 L' F' D2 R D R' F R D R2 D' F R U F2 U' *F F* R B R' F' R B' *R' R2* U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U

They were just hidden with the cancellations.


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## Selkie (Aug 15, 2012)

PB 33 HTM 

.........

Well all my FMC to date has been pseudo CFOP so decided to try the Mustcube weekly no 411 using more advanced techniques. I have to confess I did not stick to a 1 hour time limit as I wanted to try and utilise as many strategies as I had read about.

Any critique would be greatly appreciated .. as well as a better insertion!

Note Active Comp in the spoiler:-



Spoiler



Scramble : B' D' R' L2 F2 L2 R' F2 L R' B U L B2 R' F2 L2 U L' D2 F2 L2 R D2 B F2 L F2 L' U'
On inverted scramble:-
U L' *R'* B' L2 B2 //2x2x2 - Added the R' when I could not find a good continuation on the inverse or when switched to normal scramble
R' F U F' U F2 *U'* R' //2x2x3 - Had gone with R' F U F' U F2 R' but added the U' to orient two bad edges

Switch to normal

Premoves: R U F2 U F U' F' R B2 L2 B R L U'

F U' F U' R U R' // F2L-1 plus 2x2x1
F L' U L U' // Leaves 3 corners
U B' U F2 U' B U F2 U2 // Did look for inserts but ended up confusing myself with orientation and this did cancel 2 moves

Final solution:
F U' F U' R U R' F L' U L B' U F2 U' B U F2 U2 R U F2 U F U' F' R B2 L2 B R L U' = 33 HTM


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## mDiPalma (Aug 15, 2012)

hey, i did a couple zz-FMCs today and yesterday (34, 28, and 31 htm), and i noticed that it is actually a fairly braindead yet effective method to go about it.

Bruce in the probability thread implied through calculations that an efficient (likely 5-6 moves) color neutral eoline (or preferably xeoline) is nearly always possible. for example, in my three solves today, ive been able to find 5-6 moves CN eoline+pair in around 15-20 minutes through little more than brute force and a few fancy tricks.

then, you can permute the corners while solving a side block, reducing the cube to 13 pieces and 2 gen [R,U] status in likely <10-11 moves. this can be brute forced surprisingly quickly as well.

finally, you can solve the rest of the cube with (once again) brute force by trying a whole bunch of (seemingly inefficient) blockbuilding strategies until you get a corner orientation and edge permutation skip at the end. to be honest, i actually find this step to be the most fun, but it takes like 30 minutes.

i don't know. i'm gonna post a question in the probability thread, but if you guys happen to know the answer, let me know. what is the distribution for the minimum amount of 2-generator [RU] moves it can take to solve a cube that CAN be solved 2-generator, without rotations? like if you perform an antisune on your cube, then the fewest moves it would take to be solved would be 7, and this state would be tallied in the 7 column.

but i guess the real reason why i posted in this thread was to ask for constructive criticism. do you think that zz has decent FMC potential, even if it relies heavily on brute force or even luck?

or what about the concept of building a 2x2x3 block and permuting the remaining corners and orienting the remaining edges, to reduce the cube to 2 gen status in FMC?


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## kinch2002 (Aug 15, 2012)

Selkie said:


> PB 33 HTM  etc etc


Well done - you're using some nice techniques! The first thing I notice is that your extension to 2x2x3 is long. 7 moves is more that I'd ever settle for.
Using your 2x2x2 without the inserted move:
2x2x2: U L' B' L2 B2
2x2x3: D' F2 D F2 U or U' R2 U F2 U
I might have another look at the scramble later but I don't have time now


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## porkynator (Aug 15, 2012)

mDiPalma said:


> (cut)



I think blockbuilding first, and then doing EO+CP (maybe with insertions) would be better for FMC.
But I really like the idea of brute forcing an LL skip < R, U >, it would be nice to see some statistics about the movecount. I don't know the potential it has for FMC, but I think it would be a fun method to practise, just for the satisfaction of solving a cube with only intuitive steps.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 15, 2012)

Selkie said:


> PB 33 HTM
> .........



your 2x2x2 - 6
R2 U F2 U2 R F U F' - F2L-1 - 14
from there work that slot of U R U R' for pseudo F2L with premove R'


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## Pyjam (Aug 15, 2012)

mDiPalma said:


> hey, i did a couple zz-FMCs today and yesterday (34, 28, and 31 htm), and i noticed that it is actually a fairly braindead yet effective method to go about it.


ZZ isn't bad but EO without line, then block-building is better, obviously more flexible.
And block-building, then EO is even more flexible, and therefore even better.
And block-building + EO simultaneously is even even more flexible, and therefore even better better.


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## Selkie (Aug 15, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> The first thing I notice is that your extension to 2x2x3 is long. 7 moves is more that I'd ever settle for.





Cubenovice said:


> your 2x2x2 - 6
> R2 U F2 U2 R F U F' - F2L-1 - 14
> from there work that slot of U R U R' for pseudo F2L with premove R'



Many thanks for the feedback gents, it is much very appreciated.

What is very evident from your advise is that my blockbuilding needs a lot of work. Something I am very aware of. having not really used a blockbuilding method and also being blue cross only in CFOP I can very easily miss easy blockbuilding let alone more optimal such as your own suggestions. I have just learned Petrus, not only to improve the block building skills but also forcing myself to be colour neutral for that method to try and ensure my block building does not have colour bias. I am not interested in changing speed method but am getting very interested in FMC and Petrus and Heise seems to be good skills to have.

Following your advise I think I may start doing sessions of just solving 3x2x2 blocks within say a 5 minute time limit looking for 10 move or less solutions.

Cubenovice; You mention the premove of R' - I have not as yet fully understood the addition of a single premove. It is to fully explore other possibilities at the F2L-1 stage and is turning an axis for which none of the solve cube occupies? How also did you derive it R' as opposed to say R or is it simply a process of elimination. Apologies for what might be an obvious question, or one that has been answered a number of times before. but I am very eager to understand any fmc techniques and my brain is a little fried from learning Comms, conjugates, petrus and some heise in the last 10 days 

Have to say really enjoying FMC and it is an event that I can hope to constantly improve at even with my sup 40 year old hands


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## Cubenovice (Aug 15, 2012)

Hi selkie,

i see now that I made a litltle error in my post, the premove is already visible at the F2L-1 step
your 2x2x2 - 6
R2 U F2 U2 R F U F' - F2L-1 - 14
take a look at the cube: it is not actually an F2L-1 the "side" colors of the last square do no match those of the 2x2x3
now determine which rotation the face of the square requires to make those sides color correct: R'

thus:
your 2x2x2 - 6
R2 U F2 U2 R F U F' - pseudo F2L-1 - 14 - find premove R'

now if you perform the (inverse in this case) scramble with premove R' you will have a regular F2L-1

btw: I also commented on your weekly comp FMC of last week


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## Selkie (Aug 15, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> take a look at the cube: it is not actually an F2L-1 the "side" colors of the last square do no match those of the 2x2x3



I confess I replied without trying your solution being at work but this explanation is perfect. Whilst playing with Heise I have often found a really nice third block but had to dismiss it because it is built using the LL colour. The premove here would then allow a continuation to be sought to this route. Great, something else for me to play with.

Appreciate you taking the time to explain.



Cubenovice said:


> btw: I also commented on your weekly comp FMC of last week



I had not noticed but thanks, I will take a look when I get home though I am hoping my days of CFOP fmc are numbered. I'll probably do an fmc a night and complete this weeks weekly fmc nearer close date to see how much improvement it will give me.


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## jla (Aug 15, 2012)

What is premoves and NISS and how do you use them?


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## kinch2002 (Aug 15, 2012)

A load more starts for mustcube FMC 411
B' D' R' L2 F2 L2 R' F2 L R' B U L B2 R' F2 L2 U L' D2 F2 L2 R D2 B F2 L F2 L' U'


Spoiler



Premove: D
2x2x2: B' D' L' D F2
2x2x3: D2 L2 D2 (9)

2x2x2: B' D' L' D F2
F2L-1: D2 L2 D' L' D' L2 B D (13)

2x2x2: B' D' L' D F2
F2L-1: D2 L2 D2 L U B' U' D (13)

Premove: B'
2x2x2: F' R' D' R F'
2x2x3: L D' B2 (9)


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## guusrs (Aug 15, 2012)

jla said:


> What is premoves and NISS and how do you use them?


Check my NISS post here.


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## jla (Aug 15, 2012)

Thank you, I think I understand somewhat. I'll try it tomorrow for the weekly scramble and post here again for feedback


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## Selkie (Aug 17, 2012)

Well I got a DNF in weekly 2012-33 but wanted to finish the solve anyway, final result 38 HTM. Some plus and minus points. I think the block building was better with F2L-1 done in 15 HTM and within about 15 minutes, but I really do need to work hard on F2L-1 stage and learn a few more Heise methodologies. Had I managed to reduce to 3 corners instead of 4 it could have been so much better. If someone sees a better F2L-1 stage that leaves 3 corners I would be very interested in seeing it. In addition being left with 2 comms I really dont feel like I inserted those anywhere near optimally and could have had more cancellations than the single one.

Still it was a fun solve and some new lessons learnt in my new addiction 



Spoiler



Scramble: B L2 D2 F2 D2 B R2 D2 B R2 B2 U' R2 F' U' R D L2 R U' L

U' D' L B' D2 //2x2x2
Switch to inverse Premoves D2 B L' D U
U F' R U' R' //2x2x3

//U L2 U2 L U //F2L-1 - Also played with U L U2 L2 U - Problem was three edges were already solved on LL and it my understanding from the heise I have learned and played with that it is a difficult case to solve.

//It then dawned on my the advice given by Cubenovice. Perhaps a premove to misalign one of the F2L blocks at that stage would mean realigning that block would no longer give three solved edges,

hence:-

On inverse, premoves U' (D2 B L' D U)
U F' R U' R //2x2x3
U L2 U2 L U //F2L-1

--Indeed a nicer looking F2L-1 with a pair that could be preserved and even made into a 2x2x1 whilst permuting edges

L2 F' L F L U . L // Leaves 4 corners, bah 4! 

R' D' R U' R' D R U // Spotted a direct 8 mover at the end to leave 3 and when I stepped through I didnt find a cancellation

Insert at . = R D2 R' U R D2 R' U' // 1 cancellation

Final solution = U' D' L B' D2 U L' R D2 R' U R D2 R' U2 L' F' L' F L2 U' L' U2 L2 U' R U R' F U' R' D' R U' R' D R U = 38 HTM


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## Cubenovice (Aug 17, 2012)

Thx for reminding me of this use of premoves 
It was not quite what i eant though; typically you would use premoves to fix "wrong" blocks instead of deliberately misaligning "right" blocks.


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## Selkie (Aug 17, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Thx for reminding me of this use of premoves
> It was not quite what i eant though; typically you would use premoves to fix "wrong" blocks instead of deliberately misaligning "right" blocks.




Indeed your explanation the other day was perfect and I have been exploring this. The way I used it was my attempt on lateral thinking when I was up with tooth ache in the early hours  In reality and with more practice I may have been able to find a better continuation without the premove though.


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## cubernya (Aug 17, 2012)

Could somebody make a backup of IF? Even if it's just the files, I'll be more than willing to host them.


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## okayama (Aug 18, 2012)

Scrambles and my solutions from Cube Camp in Kanazawa 2012. There were two attempts.

1st Scramble: D' L2 D B2 U L2 U B2 U2 B2 U L' D' F' U2 R' D R' U2 F2 R'
1st Solution: L2 B L' B' L' B D2 B' Rw' L' Uw2 L D L' Uw2 L D' Rw D' B R' B U D2 F' R2 B2 (27 HTM)


Spoiler



40 min solution.

(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: L B L B' L2

1st square: B2
2nd & 3rd square: R2 F D2
F2L minus 1 slot: U' B' R B'
All but 3c3e: D * B D2 B'
Correction: L B L B' L2

Insert at *: Rw' (D L' Uw2 L D' L' Uw2 L) Rw

This should have been 26 HTM because the end of the insertion "L Rw" becomes 1 move.
I didn't notice that.    Next week I will pay attention.



2nd Scramble: U L2 F2 L2 F2 U' R2 D F2 U2 B L' D L2 R U B L' R2 U L'
2nd Solution: B U' B' F D R U R' U' B2 U' B' R' B R U B2 R U R' D2 R U' R' B' R' B' L F (29 HTM)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: B2 D2 B' R' B' L F

Two squares: (ready)
F2L minus 1 slot: B U' B' F D B2
Finish F2L: B2 R U R' U' B2
All but 3 corners: U' B' R' B R U
Correction: B2 * D2 B' R' B' L F

Insert at *: R U R' D2 R U' R' D2


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## Selkie (Aug 18, 2012)

New pb, just a random qqtimer scramble, the first in an Ao5 FMC today!

Pleased not only for the pb but also done in 45 mins including insertion. However the scramble felt very easy and had an easy F2L-1 to 3 corners stage. Be interested in someone less novice trying it out.

Scramble: B2 D2 R' F2 U2 R' F2 U2 R' B2 R' B' D U R2 B D F D F2

On inverse:
D2 F' // 2x2x1
D B' D2 // 2x2x2

Switch to normal

Premoves D2 B D' F D2
R' U' F R' // Pseudo Block
F' L F L' // F2L-1
F2 . R2 D R D' // F2L
U F L F' L' F' // Leaves 3 corners

Insert @ . = D' L' D R2 D' L D R2 = 3 cancellations

Final Solution = R' U' F R' F' L F L' F2 D' L' D R2 D' L D2 R D' U F L F' L' U' F' D2 B D' F D2 = 30 HTM


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## Cubenovice (Aug 18, 2012)

Selkie said:


> Scramble: B2 D2 R' F2 U2 R' F2 U2 R' B2 R' B' D U R2 B D F D F2



normal scramble
F' D . R' U' R2 - 2 squares 5
B U2 F - 2x2x3 8
but
B U2 *R* F - 2x2x3 9
R D2 R2 - pseudo F2L-1 
D B' D2 B R2 - leaves 5 corners 17
should be sub 30 with insertions

but
B U2 *R2* F - 2x2x3 9
D B R2 B' - make pair 13
D R2 D' R2 - 17
leaves 2 flipped edges and three twisted corners
When permuted right this can be solves in 9 moves so let's find an insertion for a super duper end result 

Unfortunately no correct permutation, best was 2 set up moves:
At . insert L2 B R' U' R2 B' R' B2 U' B' U2 B' L2 for a grand total of 30 htm


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## Selkie (Aug 18, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> leaves 2 flipped edges and three twisted corners
> When permuted right this can be solves in 9 moves so let's find an insertion for a super duper end result



Well I was considering starting to learn the <=9 move LL algs, already knowing full OLL will make it easier. This alg is even more reason too. lovely.

Some great looking block building too.


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## porkynator (Aug 19, 2012)

2 hours of headache, best solution I got: 44 HTM :fp
B D' R2 F' U' B' R' F R D' L2 U2 B R2 D2 F D2 F' B2 R2 B2


Spoiler



Premove: B
F L2 U _//2x2x1 (3/3)_
D2 R L' U R' L' U2 R D' R2 D _//3x2x2 (11/14)_
U R2 U' F' U F _//F2L-1 (6/20)_
R' U F' U' F _//EO + 1 pair (5/25)_
R F R2 F' _//Another pair (4/29)_
* *R* B' R2 F R F' R2 B2 _//Pair 3-cycle + adjust premove (8/37)_
Insert at *: B L' B' R2 B L B' *R2* (8-1/44)
Solution: F L2 U D2 R L' U R' L' U2 R D' R2 D U R2 U' F' U F R' U F' U' F R F R2 F' B L' B' R2 B L B' R' B' R2 F R F' R2 B2 (44 HTM)


Can someone find a better start?


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## Cubenovice (Aug 19, 2012)

porkynator said:


> 2 hours of headache, best solution I got: 44 HTM :fp
> B D' R2 F' U' B' R' F R D' L2 U2 B R2 D2 F D2 F' B2 R2 B2
> Can someone find a better start?



B2 D' - square - 2
B U L' U' L U F' - 2x2x3 - 9
B D' B' D' - F2L-1 - 13 not too nice but you could try some niss and or insert some moves


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## Selkie (Aug 19, 2012)

porkynator said:


> 2 hours of headache, best solution I got: 44 HTM :fp
> B D' R2 F' U' B' R' F R D' L2 U2 B R2 D2 F D2 F' B2 R2 B2
> Can someone find a better start?



Have F2L in 18 - Will work on completing later but may yet take it back to F2L-1 for continuation or looking at adding an insert...



Spoiler



On Inverse
B' F' U' F // 2x2x1
Switch to Normal
Premoves F' U F B
D F U2 // 2x2x2
B2 D B D // 3x2x2
B' R B2 R2 B // F2L-1
R B // Pseudo 3x2x1 - Requires B' Premove for F2l making Premoves B' F' U F B


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## irontwig (Aug 19, 2012)

porkynator said:


> 2 hours of headache, best solution I got: 44 HTM :fp
> B D' R2 F' U' B' R' F R D' L2 U2 B R2 D2 F D2 F' B2 R2 B2
> 
> 
> ...



D' B U2 F' D' F B2 U2 R' B U B2 R B R2 U R U' F' U' B' U F U' R2 B R' F' B2 (29)

D' B U2
F' D' F B2
U2
R'.:B' R2 B 
R' F' B2

.=B U B2 R B R2 U R U2
:=U F' U' B' U F U' B


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## Cubenovice (Aug 19, 2012)

irontwig said:


> .=*B U B2 R B R2 U R U2
> *



Cool two insertions of this alg on the same page!!!


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## KCuber (Aug 20, 2012)

First Time Doing FMC
Scramble: F' L U B2 D L B' L2 R D R B2 L D' B U2 B' F' D' F' D' L2 R' F' L2 F2 D2 U L2 R

Solution:
2x2: F L F' L2 D2 
2X2X3: L' B' U' B2 U L2 
F2L 1: B U B' U' B U B' U2 B2 
F2L 2: U2 B L' B' L 
OLL: F R2 B' R' B R' 
PLL: U' F U F U F U' F' U' F2 U 
Solution: F L F' L2 D2 L' B' U' B2 U L2 B U B' U' B U B' U2 B2 U2 B L' B' L F R2 B' R' B R' U' F U F U F U' F' U' F2 U

If you could give me any tips i would appreciate it it!


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## Pyjam (Aug 20, 2012)

Quick try.

First, there's a typo in your 223 block, it's:
222 : F L F' L2 D2
223 : L' B' U' *B2* U L2

After that, there's an easy 221 block with:
B' L' B2 L 

But it doesn't match the 223 block, so you need a premove.
Both B' as premove (before the scramble) + B' L' B2 L B2 
and B2 as premove + B' L' B2 L B'
give F2L -1 slot

I choose B' + B' L' B2 L B2

Now we need to orient the edges.
y F' U' F does the job.

Now, we did not complete the F2L but we place all the edges while trying to form some blocks.
Here, we have an easy case:
R U' R' U2

Now, there's only 4 corners to cycle, and the cube will be solved.

Until now, we have:
Premove B' // 1
F L F' L2 D2 // 6
L' B' U' B2 U L2 // 12
B' L' B2 L B2 // 17
y F' U' F // 20
R U' R' U2 // 24

It's better to remove the cube rotation, and to move the premove to the end.
F L F' L2 D2
L' B' U' B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' B' U2
B'

This is a 24 moves skeleton in which we need to insert two 3-corner cycles in order to get cancellations.

But it's too late here, and Insertion Finder is down... Sorry.

With the first permutation, we only need to place one corner. So, we'll probably get a lot of cancellations: 3, or 4, or even more.
With the second one, we hope 1 or 2 cancellations.
24 moves + 2x 8 for the insertions - 5 = 35 moves.

A 35 moves solution is likely.


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## KCuber (Aug 20, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> Quick try.
> 
> First, there's a typo in your 223 block, it's:
> 222 : F L F' L2 D2
> 223 : L' B' U' *B2* U L2


My bad, i went back to my notes and i did write down B2, thanks for the tips!


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## Selkie (Aug 20, 2012)

Well I am now in the process of learning the <=9 move LL cases, which I will follow with the 10 move cases, as well as working on my F2l-1 to L3C Heise.

I have started producing a PDF document, mainly for my own use, but happy to make it available if anyone would like to see it when it is complete that shows the visualcube image of each LL case <=10 moves and its inverse as well as showing the edge flips, edge cycles and corner cycles resultant from each alg. Even though not completely necessary I find documents I can carry and read during lunch at work on on my weekly three hour train journey to be very useful. I recall seeing a similar document with diagrams but cannot recall the source.

Having known full OLL for about 18 months and having replaced many of them I know probably ~100 OLL algs which accounts for many low move count LL cases, it also got me exploring what edge cycles my known OLLs actually do. In my fmc solves I often explore some OLLs that match the same edge flips required to see if any leave me L3C. It got me thinking, I wondered how many LL cases are required to leave the cube either in a solved state or with a 3 cycle of edges remaining. Whilst I appreciate this is probably a question for the puzzle theory forum, it sounded like something that may have been worked on by someone in FMC at some stage!

Edit: In reality I guess this is just HTM optimal ELL but was hoping to reuse a lot of the OLLs I already know.


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## Kirjava (Aug 20, 2012)

Selkie said:


> I have started producing a PDF document, mainly for my own use, but happy to make it available if anyone would like to see it when it is complete that shows the visualcube image of each LL case <=10 moves and its inverse as well as showing the edge flips, edge cycles and corner cycles resultant from each alg. Even though not completely necessary I find documents I can carry and read during lunch at work on on my weekly three hour train journey to be very useful. I recall seeing a similar document with diagrams but cannot recall the source.



Awesome. If you list the optimal solutions for each case I will learn them all.


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## Selkie (Aug 20, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Awesome. If you list the optimal solutions for each case I will learn them all.



Well I cannot take credit for the list of algs I have, since its a compilation of lists posted historically in this thread, mainly by Irontwig. Its just I wanted to create a document to visualise their application, cycles etc to help me learn them and to spot when they can be used.

I'll post the PDF here when it is ready and give you a heads up Thom


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## Cubenovice (Aug 20, 2012)

pdf file with 10 move algs diagrams in this post by Irontwig:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=526958&viewfull=1#post526958

Selkie,
I already have visualcube images of all but three of the 6 to 9 move cases (3-cycles are excluded cause commutator).
Normal and inverse of each.
Then procrastination set in....

Lemme know if you want 

I also have the algs in an xls file, some of them already translated to FRU (instead of the BRU) in Teemu's / Erik's list.
I thought I had saved the visualcube links too but cannot find them right now.


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## Selkie (Aug 20, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> pdf file with 10 move algs diagrams in this post by Irontwig:
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=526958&viewfull=1#post526958



Perfect! I know I saw it somewhere, very useful starting point and thanks too to Irontwig indirectly 



Cubenovice said:


> Selkie,
> I already have visualcube images of all but three of the 6 to 9 move cases (3-cycles are excluded cause commutator).
> Normal and inverse of each.
> Then procrastination set in....
> ...



I certainly would. It is likely I will also recreate on green LL due to my historic blue cross for ease of my own recognition but I will certainly create a more public PDF with more conventional colour scheme. Thank goodness for &alg and &case arguments in VisualCube to make the inverses easier! Not sure the easiest method for transfer, perhaps zipped and emailed?

Thanks for the help


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## irontwig (Aug 20, 2012)

That reminds me that I kinda planned to learn those before going to Enschede, ah well. A lot of times you can even beat the optimal LL solution with Snyder+corner insertion anyway.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 20, 2012)

32 images make 7xx Kb in total as size is 150x150.

I'll PM you my emailadress.

Xls file will need some cleaning up though before I can send it.


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## Pyjam (Aug 21, 2012)

*KCuber* problem :



Pyjam said:


> Scramble: F' L U B2 D L B' L2 R D R B2 L D' B U2 B' F' D' F' D' L2 R' F' L2 F2 D2 U L2 R
> 
> It's better to remove the cube rotation, and to move the premove to the end.
> F L F' L2 D2
> ...


Insertion Finder is up again.

The solution:
F L F' L2 D2
L' * B' U' B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' B' # U2
B'

Insertions:
* = U F U' B' U F' U' B : 3 moves cancelled
# = B' D' B U2 B' D B U2 : 5 moves cancelled

F L F' L2 D2
L' (U F U' B' U F' U' B) B' U' B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' B' (B' D' B U2 B' D B U2) U2
B'

So, solution =

F L F' L2 D2
L' (U F U' B' U F' U2) B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' (B2 D' B U2 B' D)

*= 32 HTM*


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## guusrs (Aug 21, 2012)

irontwig said:


> That reminds me that I kinda planned to learn those before going to Enschede, ah well. A lot of times you can even beat the optimal LL solution with Snyder+corner insertion anyway.


The <=10-move algs table helps me in about 10% - 20% of al my FMC-solves.
And it helped me for finding a 23 move solution for Per's weekly FMC #412 (still running)
Anyway, see you in Enschede! 
I wil arrive on saturday morning and bring a new world-record-holder with me


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## spyr0th3dr4g0n (Aug 21, 2012)

Scramble: U L2 U2 B R' D' U2 R' U F' D R U' L F' L B2 F2 L B' F R2 F2 D2 U

My Solution


Spoiler



F' D' F R F2 U' B R F R /xcross + F2L setup
U D R U' D' /making somewhat xxxcross
R' D' R2 D R D' R' D /fin F2L
U F R F' R' U' /OLL
F2 D2 F U F' D2 F U' F /A-perm 
38HTM



Using insertion finder, it found this



Spoiler



F' D' F R F2 U' B R F R U D R U' D' R' D' R2 D R D' R' D U F2 L F' R F L' F2 R' U' 
33HTM

with this insertion F' D' F R F2 U' B R F R U D R U' D' R' D' R2 D R D' R' D U F [@1] R F' R' U'
Insert at @1: F L F' R F L' F' R'

This is 5 moves less, ie saving 10% of my total



Can anyone explain, or link me to a strategy or way for finding insertions? I can clearly see it being quite useful for FMC and I would like to learn more.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 21, 2012)

spyr0th3dr4g0n said:


> Can anyone explain, or link me to a strategy or way for finding insertions? I can clearly see it being quite useful for FMC and I would like to learn more.



Scroll back trough this thread, there a some good discussion son how to look for insertions.


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## Pyjam (Aug 21, 2012)

This should be in the *How-to's, Guides, etc.* section of the forum.
Has anyone done a video tutorial to explain insertions?


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## irontwig (Aug 21, 2012)

But really, if you know how 8 move comms work you shouldn't really need someone telling you how you do inserttions; just sticker pieces and go move by move through your skeleton.


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## 5BLD (Aug 21, 2012)

Selkie said:


> Have F2L in 18 - Will work on completing later but may yet take it back to F2L-1 for continuation or looking at adding an insert...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you might have mixed up regular and inverse...


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## Selkie (Aug 21, 2012)

5BLD said:


> I think you might have mixed up regular and inverse...



Thanks, I certainly did.

Read as "On Normal ... Switch to Inverse"


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## Robert-Y (Aug 21, 2012)

I just want to say, I was trying to follow your solution but kept failing then 5BLD figured out why


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## kinch2002 (Aug 21, 2012)

Pyjam said:


> This should be in the *How-to's, Guides, etc.* section of the forum.
> Has anyone done a video tutorial to explain insertions?


I've planned to do some FMC tutorials for ages now, but keep having a lack of camera. I've written everything down already so one day I'll manage to make them


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## spyr0th3dr4g0n (Aug 21, 2012)

irontwig said:


> But really, if you know how 8 move comms work you shouldn't really need someone telling you how you do inserttions; just sticker pieces and go move by move through your skeleton.



I know how 8 move comms work, and I can follow the pieces through the solve, but I don't understand how to make the commutators cancel moves with the solution. I would just be sticking in an 8 mover during the solve and hoping for some good luck.


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## Selkie (Aug 21, 2012)

spyr0th3dr4g0n said:


> I know how 8 move comms work, and I can follow the pieces through the solve, but I don't understand how to make the commutators cancel moves with the solution. I would just be sticking in an 8 mover during the solve and hoping for some good luck.



For instance my recent solve leaving three corners was:-

R' U' F R' F' L F L' F2 . R2 D R D' U F L F' L' F' D2 B D' F D2

So stepping through I found

Insert @ . = D' L' D R2 D' L D R2 = 3 cancellations

So insert the commutator there and the solve can then be written as

[First part of original solve][Inserted Commutator][Last part of the original solve], ie

*[*R' U' F R' F' L F L' F2*] [*D' L' D R2 D' L D *R2] [R2* D R D' U F L F' L' U' F' D2 B D' F D2*]*

But there is no point doing R2 following by R2 because R2 and R2 cancel themselves out so we remove both of them as the net effect is the two moves didn't do anything to the cube:-

R' U' F R' F' L F L' F2 D' L' D R2 D' L *D D* R D' U F L F' L' U' F' D2 B D' F D2

And now we see D followed by D, well that is exactly the same is writing D2 so:-

Final Solution = R' U' F R' F' L F L' F2 D' L' D R2 D' L D2 R D' U F L F' L' U' F' D2 B D' F D2 = 30 HTM

....

So you are looking for as many of the moves at the beginning and end of the commutator to match the moves in the solution at the insert point. As you step through you can tell if the first move of the comm is the same face you just stepped and the same goes for the last move of the comm and the next move you would make. Hope that clarifies somewhat.

Edit: Say you were lucky enough to find the following insert:-

[R' U' F R' F' L D L D] [D' L' D R2 D' L D R2] [R2 D' L' U F L F' L' U' F' D2 B D' F D2]

Well lets look at the start of the comm D' cancels with the D before it. Both can be removed = 2 cancellations. So after those two moves are removed the L' and L cancel = 2 more cancellations. Now we see a D and a D, that can be changed to D2 for another single cancellation. Now to the end of the comm. Well R2 and R2 cancel = 2, D and D' for another 2, then L and L' for another 2, then its D' and U. So 11 cancellations. In this very lucky case inserting the commutator actually resulted in the final solve being shorter than the original skeleton, we added 8 moves and ended up removing 11 moves. Definately worth looking for


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## Selkie (Aug 22, 2012)

irontwig said:


> A lot of times you can even beat the optimal LL solution with Snyder+corner insertion anyway.



Indeed at this early stage of my FMC solving, my F2L-1 to L3C or F2L to L3C is more based on luck than judgement. I my OLLs from my arsenal, some Heise but Snyder is something I haven't played with yet. I did notice a post this year about a Korean site that made the algs for all cases with EO or only 2 flips but would be more interested in some tutorials or other resource if there are any good ones available. Certainly if it usually offers a better result to optimal LL algs. I guess the more tools you have available the better chance you have of getting a good continuation to a good early part of the solve.


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## irontwig (Aug 22, 2012)

When you use pseudo blocks and pre-moves Heise and Snyder meld; when you in a Heise solve hide away a LL-pair in the last slot you have a pseudo F2L. When doing 1h FMC you can just trial and error 6-8 move algs and hope for the best, but ofc the better grasp you've of how they affect the whole LL the better.


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## Selkie (Aug 22, 2012)

irontwig said:


> When you use pseudo blocks and pre-moves Heise and Snyder meld; when you in a Heise solve hide away a LL-pair in the last slot you have a pseudo F2L. When doing 1h FMC you can just trial and error 6-8 move algs and hope for the best, but ofc the better grasp you've of how they affect the whole LL the better.



Thank you. Indeed the majority of of my solves are brute force attempt using my collection of OLLs, EO, some VHF2L, some Winter variation (less so because orientation of last corners isn't important) but it can still lead to an L3C. But the work I am doing on the LL agls and cycles and I am doing the same with my own OLLs is giving me much better insight into what they are actually doing to the LL and I guess with time I will be making more intuitive LL moves.

It is a very good point about hiding a CE pair, something I have not yet fully mastered with Heise but it certainly a much more intuitive way of creating a block on the LL. Really must persevere and try and master the Heise step to L3C.

Thanks for the advice, yet more to add to my "FMC To Do List"


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## Cubenovice (Aug 22, 2012)

I plead guilty to the brute force approach...

I'm also guilty of forgetting beautiful approaches that I have seen elsewhere (like breaking up blocks at this stage) which unfortunately reduces the brute force succes rate.


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## Andri Maulana (Aug 23, 2012)

with this, i only have done 8 serious attempt, 41 - 43 - 40 - 40 - 39 - 36 - 37 - 32
very nice improvement, i'm so happy 
this scramble is hard for me, and i don't understand much about insertion etc. Just using premoves, inverse and cfop solve, so this is very good for noob like me.

scramble: L' F' D' F2 R L2
B2 D L F D' F2 D F2 D2 R2
U' L2

2x2x2: U B' U2 R2 B2 F' R' F' R'

inverse, premove: R F R F B2 R2 U2 B U'
2x2x3: U' F' D F U
f2l - 1: B' D2 B'
f2l: D R D2 R2 B R B'
oll: R D R' D' R' B R B'

final solution: U B' U2 R2 B2 F' R' F' R' B R' B' R D R D' R' B R' B' R2 D2 R' D' B D2 B U' F' D' F U (32 moves)

PB 32 moves


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## Selkie (Aug 23, 2012)

Andri Maulana said:


> scramble: L' F' D' F2 R L2 B2 D L F D' F2 D F2 D2 R2 U' L2
> 
> PB 32 moves



Nice CFOP solution and certainly better than any CFOP solution I have done 

Had a little play with the scramble during lunch at work and got as far as:-

Premove: D [1]
F L2 D L' D2 //2x2x2 [6]
R2 F2 U' F' //3x2x2 [10]
U F R F' R U' //F2L-1 + CE Pair[16]

Then needed to get back to work, a continuation later... 

Edit: Actually I would be very interested in a move advanced FMC'er showing a good annotated continuation from my start. All advise is hugely appreciated at this stage in my solving


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## ardi4nto (Aug 23, 2012)

Tried that scramble too..
Got 28, with quite like CFOP:

Scramble: L' F' D' F2 R L2 B2 D L F D' F2 D F2 D2 R2 U' L2


Spoiler



For inverse scramble with premoves L' U
1x2x3: B U L2 (3/3)
2x2x3: R U2 L' U' F' U2 (6/9)
F2L: B' D2 B * D B' D' L (7/16)
Leave 3 corners: L' D' B' D B L B2 (4/20)
Undo premoves: L' U (2/22)
Insert at *: B' U' F2 U B U' F2 U (6/28)
Inverse to get solution for normal scramble
Final solution: U' L B2 L' B' D' B D2 B D' U' F2 U B' U' F2 U D2 B U2 F U L U2 R' L2 U' B'

Notice that leaving 3 corner step is using common OLL algorithm.


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## Selkie (Aug 23, 2012)

Selkie said:


> Nice CFOP solution and certainly better than any CFOP solution I have done
> 
> Had a little play with the scramble during lunch at work and got as far as:-
> 
> ...



Actually found a nice continuation, not a good fmc result in terms of HTM but a nice result for intuitive solving and some good LL block/pair building practice, which I am really in need of...

Premove: D [1]
F L2 D L' D2 // 2x2x2 [6]
R2 F2 U' F' // 3x2x2 [10]
U F R F' R U' // F2L-1 + CE Pair [16]
U' R2 U // Pseudo Pair (thanks for advise earlier in the page irontwig  ) - 1 Cancellation [18] 
F R F' // LL Square [21]
R F R' F' // Place 3rd LL Edge [25]
R F R' F' // Pair [29]
R U' R U R' // Solved [34]

34 HTM

Think I can say that is the first cube I've solved in over 30 years of solving on and off where I didn't use one algorithm (or comm)


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## Andri Maulana (Aug 24, 2012)

Andri Maulana said:


> scramble: L' F' D' F2 R L2
> B2 D L F D' F2 D F2 D2 R2
> U' L2



got new solution, but takes a very long time, about 4 hour -_-

premove: B' F2 D' (3)
f2l-1: R' F' D2 R2 F R' U L' D L U2 (14)
EO: D2 R F' R' F (19)
l3c: D F D F' (23)
fix corner: F' U' F D F' U F D' (cancel 1 move)

final solution: R' F' D2 R2 F R' U L' D L U2 D2 R F' R' F D F D F2 U' F D F' U F D' B' F2 D' (30 moves)

very nice


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## Selkie (Aug 24, 2012)

A new PB, 25HTM, in Weekly 2012-24

NOTE: Active Comp In Spoiler



Spoiler



Scramble: R2 D2 F2 D L2 F2 L U' R2 B' L2 B U2 F2 R2 D2 R2 F L2

On Inverted Scramble:
Premoves: U2 F' D2 [3]
D2 F2 //2x2x1 [5] 
B2 *L2* D //2x2x2 (D2 Premove) - Inserted L2 for a better continuation [8]
L2 F2 //3x2x2 (F' Premove) [10]
U L' U' L2 U' //F2L-1 (U2 Premove) [15]
U' L U //Pseudo F2L with 1 Cancellation [17]
L' B L2 B' //L3C

Skeleton: D2 F U2 _B_ : _L2 B'_ L U' L' U2 L2 U L U' F2 L2 D' L2 B2 F2 D2
: = _B_ R B' L2 B R' _B' L2_ = 4 Cancellations

Final Solution = D2 F U2 B2 R B' L2 B R' B2 L U' L' U2 L2 U L U' F2 L2 D' L2 B2 F2 D2 = 25 HTM

A PB  Found a 2 move cancellation insert at 55 mins, found this one at 58 mins so very close to time limit but was determined not to DNF again


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## Andri Maulana (Aug 24, 2012)

Andri Maulana said:


> scramble: L' F' D' F2 R L2 B2 D L F D' F2 D F2 D2 R2 U' L2


trying to search for insertions for the first time by myself. Take about 1 hour, but finally got this ^^

premove: B' F2 D' (3)
f2l-1: R' F' D2 R2 F R' U L' D L U2 (14)
EO: D2 R F' R' F (19)
l3c: D F ! D F' (23)

!: F U F' D F U' F' D'

final solution: R' F' D2 R2 F R' U L' D L U2 D2 R F' R' F D F2 U F' D F U' B' D' (25 moves)


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## Andri Maulana (Aug 25, 2012)

Fmc mustcube 412 no time limit



Spoiler: Active competition



(found less than 2 hour)

scramble: F：2 B2 R U' F' D' U F U D' B' U2 F' B2 U2 F' B2 D' B F R' F' L2 D2
B' L2 U B R2 D2

inverse scramble
premove: L' U' F2
pseudo 2x2x3+1x2x2: U' B D' R F' R F U
pseudo f2l-1+1x2x2: R2 F' R' F R'
L3C: B R' B' R' U'

inverse all, solution: F2 U L ! U R B R B' R F' R F R2 U' F' R' F R' D B' U

!: L U R U' L' U R' U'

final solution: F2 U L2 U R U' L' U B R B' R F' R F R2 U' F' R' F R' D B' U (24 moves)


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## Selkie (Aug 26, 2012)

Apologies for the thread flood recently guys. I'm sure the FMC novelty will wear off .. eventually! 

If there was ever a case of a good start with good promise but poor finish it was this scramble (random qqtimer) F2L-1 in 10HTM!, yet only a 28 HTM, disappointing. Might be worth a try though 

Scramble: D2 U2 B F L2 D2 F L2 R2 U2 L' U F D' B U' L D2 U B2 R



Spoiler



Immediately three pairs looks good and first thoughts were to try and preserve them all. That said, ironically the chosen first turn broke one of the pairs!
On Inverse:
Premove: F2 [1]
L' U' R //2 Outer squares [4]
B D //Inner Square [6]
B' F //3x2x2 (Requires F2 Pre) [8]
B L B' U' //F2L-1 Also 2 cancellations on the B' F B combination [10]
L' U B' U' B //EO and from here starts to get disappointing after a great start but struggled to find continations [15]
B L' B' L' //L4C

L4C Normal Solution: F2 L . B L B2 U B U' L U B L' F' D' B' : R' U L

. = L F L' B L F' L' B' = 5 Cancel
: = B' U' B D' B' U B D = 1 Cancel

Final Solution = F2 L2 F L' B L F' B2 U B U' L U B L' F' D' B2 U' B D' B' U B D R' U L = 28 HTM


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## Cubenovice (Aug 26, 2012)

N8W8 competition:

FMC scramble:
R2 B' R D2 L' F' U F B U L' F2 U2 B2 U2 D2 L' U2 L2

podium:
1 Robert Yau 30
1 Jan Bentlage 30
3 Maarten Smit 32
near podium:
4 The novice 33


Spoiler



Robert
FULL
L R2 U D' B D B' R B R'B2 F D B' D B2 F2 - F2L
L' B L B' U2 B L D' R U2 B' D B2 U' - OLL followed by 5 move cancel corner cycle
We checked with IF later and 30 HTM was the best to be had.
Correction: it wasn't OLL, it was ELL before CLL, in an attempt to leave 3 corners

Cubenovice
L D B' R F' L2 U' R U2 R2 B2 L U' L' U R' U' R U' B' U2 - leaves 5 corners (B' U2 premoves)
did not check the full skeleton; settled for 3 cancellations for the 1st cycle
2nd only cancelled 1 so total 33 HTM

IF found 5+2 for 30 htm...
5 move cancelled near the end of the skeleton (where I did not look...)
Sigh...


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## Ickathu (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm looking to maybe start some FMC. Currently I just kind of use Petrus/Roux/Heise all mixed together. I'm pretty lame (i.e., 40+ stm solutions.)
What should I try? Or should I just start doing a bunch?

*cough* I'd probably have a lower movecount if I spent more then 15 minutes per solution and actually tried some stuff rather than just using the first or second solution I can find.*cough*


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## okayama (Aug 26, 2012)

Scrambles and my solutions from Moves are for n00bs 2012.
There were three attempts for 1st round, and also three attempts for the final.

Thanks to Erik for organizing such a great competition,
and congrats on your win with awesome Sub 25-move solution!

1st round
Scramble 1: F D2 L' F2 D' R B R U R F' L2 U' L2 U' B2 U D B2 U'
Solution 1: U L' U' L D2 R D F U' B2 D' B U2 B' D B U' F' U B U' B U' F' L' F' R' L2 (28 HTM)


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: B U' F' L' F' R' L2

F2L minus 1 slot: U L' U' L D2 R D
All but 3 corners: F U' B' * U F' U B U'
Correction: B U' F' L' F' R' L2

Insert at *: B' D' B U2 B' D B U2



Scramble 2: D2 F2 R2 F2 U2 R2 D' L2 R2 D2 F2 R F2 L' B D2 B' U' B R2
Solution 2: R' B2 U R' B D L' D' L2 B' L B U' B R' D S D' B2 D S' D' B' L' B' R2 B L B' R2 (32 HTM)


Spoiler



(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: R' B' R U' B2 R

All but 3c3e: R B' U B' L' B L2 D L D' R
Correction: R' B' R U' B2 R

So, skeleton for the given scramble is:

All but 3c3e: R' B2 U R' B D L' D' L2 B' L B U' * B R'

There were 20 minutes left when I got this skeleton, but I couldn't find
good insertions, mainly because I stuck to searching a pair 3-cycle with
some conjugates and wasted my time.

Time limits came, so I quickly wrote the solution
by solving the 3c3e 3-cycles at the end:

Edge 3-cycle: D S D' B2 D S' D' B2
Corner 3-cycle: B L' B' R2 B L B' R2

Insertion finder says you can get 26 moves as follows:

Insert at *: D (D2 L D2 + Bw2 D2 L D2 Bw2) D'
Insert at +: D2 L' U L D2 L' U' L



Scramble 3: U2 D B U R2 B' D' L' D2 F R F2 R2 L2 B2 L2 U F2 R2 U'
Solution 3: R2 U' D L2 D' R2 D L2 D' L B' U F' L2 U2 L' B L' B' L U F U F2 U' F' U R' F R F' (31 HTM)


Spoiler



5 min linear backup skeleton.

2x2x2 block: R2 U' * R2 L B'
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: U F' L2
Expand block: U2 L' B L' B' L
More squares: U F U F2 U' F'
All but 3 corners: U R' F R F'

Insert at *: D L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R2

After that I found another 25-move skeleton:

2x2x2 block: R2 U' R2 L B'
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: U' F U2 F' L2 U'
All but 3 corners: F2 L F' L' F' L F L' F L' R * U R' U' (found on inverse)

Insert at *: L2 U' R' U L2 U' R U

but it gave just the same 31-move solution. No better solution was found in time.


Final round
Scramble 1: U2 F2 D' R2 D R2 F2 D F2 L F D B' R' B L2 R2 U2 L U
Solution 1: L U F R B' L B L D B U B' D' B U' B2 D B D' B2 D' B' D2 B2 D2 B2 D' B D L' D2 L D' F' (34 HTM)


Spoiler



Crappy safe solution, but needed whole 1-hour. 

Pre-scramble: F'
2x2x2 block: L U F R
2x2x3 block: B' L B L *
All but 3 corners: B' D B D' B2 D' B' D2 B2 D2 B2 D' B D L' D2 L D' (found on inverse)

Insert at *: D B U B' D' B U' B'



Scramble 2: B L2 R2 F2 L2 D2 F' D2 F L2 D' F' R' U L2 B2 F' L B' R F'
Solution 2: D' L' D' R' U' L' B' F2 D2 R' D F L' F' R F L D2 F D F2 D F' D2 F' L' F (27 HTM)


Spoiler



(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: F2 B L U R D L D

2x2x3 block: F' L
All but 3 corners: F D2 F D' F2 D' F' D2 F' R' * D' R D2
Correction: F2 B L U R D L D

Insert at *: R F L' F' R' F L F'



Scramble 3: U B2 D' U2 B2 L2 D B2 R2 F' U R2 D' L' B U2 F L R'
Solution 3: D U F D B L' F D R L' U' F U' F' R U L' U2 L U L' U L2 U F' L F L' U' (29 HTM)


Spoiler



Here is 5 min linear backup solution:

1st square: D U F
2nd square: D B
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: L' D2 F D' R2 L2
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: U L U' R' U' R
Pseudo F2L: F U' F'
LL: R' U' R2 B' R' B2 U' B' U
Correct pseudoness: L

By investigating more options, I got a shorter linear solution.

1st square: D U F
2nd square: D B
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: L' F D R L'
Pseudo F2L: U' F U' F' R
LL: U L' U2 L U L' U L / L U F' L F L' U' L'
Correct pseudoness: L


Nice to see FMC lovers, it was fun and challenging competition!


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## 5BLD (Aug 27, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> I'm looking to maybe start some FMC. Currently I just kind of use Petrus/Roux/Heise all mixed together. I'm pretty lame (i.e., 40+ stm solutions.)
> What should I try? Or should I just start doing a bunch?
> 
> *cough* I'd probably have a lower movecount if I spent more then 15 minutes per solution and actually tried some stuff rather than just using the first or second solution I can find.*cough*



I'm a nub and use Roux and ive gotten a 29 move stm fmc roux once


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## Andri Maulana (Aug 27, 2012)

My 1 hour time limit PB, also my first sub 30 solution found less than 45 minutes


scramble: B U2 F D2 R2 B' F2 L2 D2 U2 R B2 F L D R D2 R' U' B'

solution:


Spoiler



premove: *L'* R2 (2)
2x2x2: D R2 B *L2* (6)
2x2x3: *L'* F L F2 D' (10)
f2l-1: F2 R' F R2 (14)
L3C: F R' F R U F2 *U'* (21)
fix corner: *U* L D' L' U' L D *L'*
4 moves cancel

final solution: D R2 B L F L F2 D' F2 R' F R2 F R' F R U F2 L D' L' U' L D L2 R2 (26 moves)


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## irontwig (Aug 27, 2012)

My solution for the second scramble of the first round of Moves are for N00bs (the only one of mine that's worth posting):

Scramble: D2 F2 R2 F2 U2 R2 D' L2 R2 D2 F2 R F2 L' B D2 B' U' B R2
Solution: F2 R2 U' R' D' R' D L D' L' D' L B' D F D' B D F' L' D' L' D B D2 B2 L B R (29)

F2 R D' R U' R2 [Pseudo 2x2x3]

Switch to inverse:
B' L' B2 D2 B' D' L [F2L-1]
D L D' L' D L D L' D' [F2L and leaving two corners mostly by luck]

Which gives this skeleton:
F2 R D' R U'.R2 D L D' L' D' L D:L' D' L' D B D2 B2 L B R

Insert at dot: U R' D R U' R' D' R' (8 moves cancel)
Insert at colon: D' B' D F D' B D F' (2 moves cancel)


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## angham (Aug 27, 2012)

My first ever attempt at FMC after studying many solutions
Scramble: D L2 B2 D' L2 F2 D2 F2 D' L2 U R' U' R2 B' L2 D' F U F R
Premoves (Normal): *D2* R2 D2 U2 (4)
2x2x2: L' U' L U2 (4)
2x2x3: D' (1)
Leave 3 edges: F R2 F' R F2 R F *R2* * F' R D R *D'* (13)
At * insert: *R* U' R' E' R U R' E (10) to cancel 1 move
Final Solution: L' U' L U2 D' F R2 F' R F2 R F R' U' R' E' R U R' E F' R D R D R2 D2 U2 (30)

There's probably a much better solution after my 2x2x3 and a better insertion, but i ran out of time


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## cubernya (Aug 29, 2012)

For those of you questioning that Roux isn't good for FMC, here's my 22 move solution from the current weekly competition



Spoiler: WARNING: CURRENT COMPETITION



B U2 F' L2 F' D2 F' U2 B R2 F' R' F' U B2 L2 F2 U' F' U R' 
On normal
F' L2 D L2 // 1x2x3 (4)
U R U2 R' U' F R2 B2 L B // 1x2x3 (14)

14 Move skeleton: F' L2 D L2 U R # U2 R' U' F R2 B2 L @ B
# = F' B L2 F B' U2
@ = R2 F' B U2 F B'
Final solution: F' L2 D L2 U R F' B L2 F B' R' U' F R2 B2 L R2 F' B U2 F


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## okayama (Sep 3, 2012)

Insertion Finder doesn't find non-pure commutator?


Spoiler



http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/0714fc775f46b5f86200a6c7b5650b1a.cube

The Scramble：B U2 F' L2 F' D2 F' U2 B R2 F' R' F' U B2 L2 F2 U' F' U R' (Weekly competition round 2012-35)
Your Skeleton：B L' B L B2 U * B2 L' D L D2 B D R' U F U' B' D R2 U F' L U2
Algorithm
corner 3-cycle edge 3-cycle corner 2*2-cycle edge 2*2-cycle
corner twist edge flip edge other other
1 corner 3-cycle(s) and 0 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
No proper insertion found
Runtime: 0.531805 milliseconds

But, for example, U2 (L U' R2 U L' U' R2 U) U2 at * should be a proper insertion, resulting in 8-move insertion.


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## BQ (Sep 4, 2012)

okayama said:


> Insertion Finder doesn't find non-pure commutator?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



all algorithms are 8-move insertions. the insertion finder isn't able to setup.


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## Andri Maulana (Sep 4, 2012)

FMC mustcube round #414

*Active Competition*


Spoiler



scramble: R B R L' D' F' L' R2 F L' F' L2 R2 B D' F L R F L B' L' R B2 R2 F B' U' D F'

pseudo 2x2x2: R2 B R'

inverse, premove: R B' R2 (3)
pseudo 2x2x3: B2 F L B' F' L' (9)
pseudo f2l-1: B' R U2 R' (13)
L5C: U F' B (16)

skeleton -5c: R2 B R' B' F ! U' R U2 R' B L F B L' F' B2

!: F U' B U F' U' B' U (cancel 3 move)

skeleton -3c: R2 B R' F2 ? B' U' B U F' U' B' R U2 R' B L F B L' F' B2

?: D2 B' U' B D2 B' U B (cancel 6 move)

final solution: R2 B R' F2 D2 B' U' B D2 U F' U' B' R U2 R' B L F B L' F' B2 (23 moves)



PB no time limit


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## ilikecubing (Sep 6, 2012)

Scramble: R2 F2 D U2 B2 D R2 D' L2 U L' B' D2 F2 R L B F2 D' B' U2

D' L' U' B' R D' L2
R2 B' R

10 move 2x2x3,how would you continue


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## porkynator (Sep 6, 2012)

ilikecubing said:


> Scramble: R2 F2 D U2 B2 D R2 D' L2 U L' B' D2 F2 R L B F2 D' B' U2
> 
> D' L' U' B' R D' L2
> R2 B' R
> ...



Disclaimer: I'm not good at FMC, I did a total of 3 one-hour attempts in my life.
That's what I would do:

U' B' R' U' R2 B2 R' //Make Pseudo F2L-1+EO (to correct pseudoness you may use B2 as a premove, that is what I did)
B F U' B' U F' U' B U2 B' U //Place 5 edges and 2 corners, step 3 of the Heise Method.
B2 //Adjust pseudoness
Now you have 3 corners left, you can insert a commutator somewhere in the middle of the solve in order to cancel some moves.

Solution would be 29 moves + insertion, and it's funny because I just did a 30 moves + insertion FMC solve with an 11 moves 2x2x3!

Scramble: U L B2 F2 D' U2 R D2 U L2 F2 D' B U2 L' R U' F L R' D' B D' U B' 

D U2 F R' D L2 D2 F U L F2 //2x2x3 (11/11)
D R2 B' D' * B D2 R' //F2L-1+EO (7/18)
D2 F D2 F' D' //2 pairs (5/23)
L' D F D' F' D' L //Pair 3-cycle (7/30)

Insert at *: D B' D F2 D' B D F2 D2 //L3C (9-3/36)

Solution: D U2 F R' D L2 D2 F U L F2 D R2 B2 D F2 D' B D F2 D2 B D2 R' D2 F D2 F' D' L' D F D' F' D' L (36 HTM)


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## ardi4nto (Sep 6, 2012)

Hi Ayush, long time no see



ilikecubing said:


> Scramble: R2 F2 D U2 B2 D R2 D' L2 U L' B' D2 F2 R L B F2 D' B' U2
> 
> D' L' U' B' [1] R D' L2
> R2 B' R
> ...



use premove B2
Finish F2L: U2 L' B L B' U B2 [2] U' B' (19+1)
OLL: R B U B' U' R' U2 (26+1)

too lazy to insert (well, it's 4 AM here), insertion finder gave:
at [1] : D' L D R D' L' D R'
at [2] : B D B' U' B D' B' U

D' L' U' B' D' L D R D' L R2 B' R U2 L' B L B' U B' D B' U' B D' B2 R B U B' U' R' U2 B2 (34)


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## okayama (Sep 17, 2012)

Let us share Yu Nakajima's awesome 24-move solution here (from Japan Open 2012):

Scramble: D2 L2 B' L2 D U2 R' U' L2 D L' B' F U F' D2


Spoiler



2x2x2 block: x' L F' Uw' L2 Uw2
More 1x2x3 block: B R' U B2
F2L minus 1 slot: R' B' R'
Finish F2L: U2 L U L'
OLL solves all: L F L' B L F2 L F L2 B'


Quite smart block-building. 

And here is my mediocre 30-move backup solution:


Spoiler



Orient edges: D R' U B
2x2x2 block: D U2 L' F2
F2L minus 1 slot: L D R D R' D2
All but 3 corners: D L D' L D L2 D' L' D L2 D'

Insert at the beginning: F D B2 D' F' D B2 D'


EDIT: recent official average of 12: 31, (20), 29, 27, 29, 28, 32, 31, (34), 27, 29, 30 = 29.3 Finally Sub 30


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## guusrs (Sep 17, 2012)

okayama said:


> Let us share Yu Nakajima's awesome 24-move solution here (from Japan Open 2012):
> 
> Scramble: D2 L2 B' L2 D U2 R' U' L2 D L' B' F U F' D2



Hi Tomoaki:
At first sight I noticed this is only a 16-move scramble.
Should that be allowed? It will trigger me to search differently!
I will try the scramble later....


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## ardi4nto (Sep 17, 2012)

guusrs said:


> Hi Tomoaki:
> At first sight I noticed this is only a 16-move scramble.



the delegate (or someone else who generated the scramble) probably making it optimal in Cube Explorer.
(Edit > Generate WCA scramble, then press the triangle button on the right of the scramble), and a 16-mover popped out.



> Should that be allowed? It will trigger me to search differently!
> I will try the scramble later....


The regulations only specify the scramble must be generated from Cube Explorer, in my opinion if that followed there's nothing wrong with it.
And I'll be interested in your differently searched solution! 

---

Btw, slice move won't be allowed in the future regulations. What do you think?


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## okayama (Sep 18, 2012)

guusrs said:


> Hi Tomoaki:
> At first sight I noticed this is only a 16-move scramble.
> Should that be allowed? It will trigger me to search differently!
> I will try the scramble later....


Takafumi Haseda (who generated this scramble) said that he used Cube Explorer 5.00 on Windows Vista,
and after shortening the generated scramble, it became 16-move (not sure it's optimal or not).
So, as Ardianto expected, the scramble was generated in accordance with the reguration.

Although it is allowed, maybe that doesn't answer your question: "*Should* that be allowed?"
I think there are two points to be discussed:

Should a scramble that can be solved with 16-move or shorter be allowed?
Even though such a scramble is allowed, the generator should be reasonably long in order to avoid cheating or expectation or something bad.
IMO at least the latter point should be regulated. For example "the length of the generator should be 20 or longer."



ardi4nto said:


> Btw, slice move won't be allowed in the future regulations. What do you think?


Do you mean "L' R" is allowed but "M" is not allowed?
Personally that doesn't matter, but I don't understand why slice move is prohibited...
I don't think the regulation contributes to the further development of cubing world.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 18, 2012)

Some possible reasons:
-1- Maybe 2013 brings us the introduction of a standardized score-sheet with 10 letters per line (as used during N8W8 and Eindhoven Open)
-2- Maybe Slice moves give too many errors for competitor and or "results-checker" 

In my opinion these arguments are not enough reason to ban slice moves.

-1- This enables fast counting of moves, 10 HTM per line BUT apart form the slice move issue competitors may cross out a move, creating a line with 9 moves.
So even with slice moves prohibited, the judge still needs to count properly.
-2- If you use slice moves you should know their notation and a judge should know it too. (I admit being a slice-noob, I once spend 15 minutes to get a TMOY solution to work but just couldn't )


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## ottozing (Sep 18, 2012)

Is it just me or is Yu's solution 26 htm???


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## mDiPalma (Sep 18, 2012)

26 - 2 cancellations


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## Cubenovice (Sep 18, 2012)

Finish F2L: U2 L U *L'*
OLL solves all: *L* F L' B L F2 L F L2 B'

equals
U2 L U F L' B L F2 L F L2 B'

I assume Yu wrote his final solution without L' L


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## Renslay (Sep 18, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Some possible reasons:
> -1- Maybe 2013 brings us the introduction of a standardized score-sheet with 10 letters per line (as used during N8W8 and Eindhoven Open)
> -2- Maybe Slice moves give too many errors for competitor and or "results-checker"
> 
> ...



And what about cube turning notations, like x, y and z?


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## Lucas Garron (Sep 19, 2012)

Reminder: If you have a comment on the Regulations, or a question about a change, post in the relevant thread or email the WRC. Else, we won't see your comments. Nevertheless, I'll address some points here:

For everyone who's wondering, the latest draft of the WCA Regulations is here.



okayama said:


> Takafumi Haseda (who generated this scramble) said that he used Cube Explorer 5.00 on Windows Vista,
> and after shortening the generated scramble, it became 16-move (not sure it's optimal or not).
> So, as Ardianto expected, the scramble was generated in accordance with the reguration.
> 
> ...


The first point is a question of scramble filtering. In short, the answer is probably yes. It doesn't matter that the generator is 16 moves. What matters is that it is a random state.
The only concern is that a 16-move scramble might be slightly easier to solve in fewer moves than a common average scramble. But his is *very* hard to measure, and very difficult to filter.

About hiding the length of the scramble by always providing a 20 move generator for FMC: I don't know what's best. If you have good arguments (i.e. what sort "cheating" or "something bad" things might happen), please post them in one of the threads for feedback about the Regulations, or contact the WRC.



okayama said:


> Do you mean "L' R" is allowed but "M" is not allowed?
> Personally that doesn't matter, but I don't understand why slice move is prohibited...
> I don't think the regulation contributes to the further development of cubing world.


The "further development of cubing world" is a different goal from providing good notation/metric specifications in the WCA Regulations. Slice moves are still the same (I'm personally still going to use M, E, and S on the internet), they're just not part of the official WCA notation anymore.





Cubenovice said:


> Some possible reasons:
> -1- Maybe 2013 brings us the introduction of a standardized score-sheet with 10 letters per line (as used during N8W8 and Eindhoven Open)
> -2- Maybe Slice moves give too many errors for competitor and or "results-checker"
> 
> ...



The official scrambler wil be TNoodle, which does have a standardized score sheet. The Regulations don't require competitors to use the score sheet, but we've found that it really helps for keeping track of the sheets and grading competitor solutions.

We've removed slice moves because the scramblers don't use them, and because they are not necessary for FMC. Advanced FMC solvers generally don't need (or even avoid) them, and it helps keep things simple for competitors and judges. In my experience, competitor and judges often get confused about slice moves, or at least have to be a lot more careful about them.
It also makes the Regulations simpler, because every written move counts as one move.




Renslay said:


> And what about cube turning notations, like x, y and z?



x, y, and z are staying in the Regulations. Clément suggested removing them because they're also arbitrary and confusing, but they're much more common than [r], , [f] notation, so we've decided to keep them for now.


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## ardi4nto (Sep 23, 2012)

A question:
How do you usually insert 2 corners and 2 edges?
I usually use 10 or 11 moves J-perm, its inverse, mirror, and conjugates to do it. That's the only way I know.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 23, 2012)

ardi4nto said:


> A question:
> How do you usually insert 2 corners and 2 edges?
> I usually use 10 or 11 moves J-perm, its inverse, mirror, and conjugates to do it. That's the only way I know.



Check out the 10 move LL list.
There are several 2C2E swaps in there

I would use T-perm, J-perm and their corner twist versions:
R' F R' u2 R F' R' u2 R2 F'
L' U R' U' R L U2 R' U' R U2


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## ottozing (Sep 23, 2012)

Question for people who are good at FMC: How do you find out what pre-move is best to do? Is there a method to doing it or do you just mess around?


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## Cubenovice (Sep 23, 2012)

ottozing said:


> Question for people who are good at FMC: How do you find out what pre-move is best to do? Is there a method to doing it or do you just mess around?



Premoves are typically moves with a very specific function; transforming a pseudo-block into a real block.

From my official PB at Eindhoven:

Scramble
B U2 F D2 L2 F U2 L2 F2 R' B2 U' B2 D2 R' B F U2 L2

L2 - Square (1)
B - pseudo 2x2x2 requires premove B2 (3)
U F2 U' - 2x2x3 requires extra premoves U2 L' (8)

don't use the premoves and do L2 B, this is a pseudo 2x2x2
notice how the "sides" of the blue square is off by B2
this is corrected for by premove B2

now scramble again with B2 as premove:
L2 B has now build a normlal 2x2x2

now do U F2 U' and identify the premoves required to make this a normal 2x2x3


EXEPTION:

You can check on the scramble which moves build a pair.
If none of these pairs gives you a good continuation you could try all these moves as premove on the inverse scramble.
All these moves will create a pair in the inverse scramble but the result is hard to prededict so in this situation it becomes "messing around"


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## ottozing (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks a bunch for this  I'm hoping that with practice, I can get FMC OCR (I'm currently second for OCR with 33 htm, OCR is 32 htm )


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## Mikel (Sep 24, 2012)

Was the regulation that limits someone to 80 moves and rotations for FMC not used at a certain point?

http://worldcubeassociation.org/res...sults&competitionId=DauphineOpen2009#e333fm_f

This guy had a 535 move solution.


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## Evan Liu (Sep 24, 2012)

Mikel said:


> Was the regulation that limits someone to 80 moves and rotations for FMC not used at a certain point?
> 
> http://worldcubeassociation.org/res...sults&competitionId=DauphineOpen2009#e333fm_f
> 
> This guy had a 535 move solution.


Yes, the regulation was added in 2010: http://worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/regulations_history2010.html
"Art. E1a added. The maximum number of moves of a solution is 80 moves. Longer solutions do not need to be considered by the organisation team. [organisation]"
There are 4 people at the bottom of the rankings with solutions over 80 moves; one was achieved in 2010, but before the new regulations were installed.


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## BlueDevil (Sep 26, 2012)

Best tips for a beginner trying to get into the low 40s? Just some basic techniques.
Thanks.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 26, 2012)

BlueDevil said:


> Best tips for a beginner trying to get into the low 40s? Just some basic techniques.
> Thanks.



blockbuild to XXX cross
orient and permute edges via the remaining slot 
solve the 3 , 4 or 4 remaining corners with commutators preferably using insertions.

Check the wiki page on FMC for the overall info and liks to some good threads.
+ browse this thread


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## kinch2002 (Sep 26, 2012)

BlueDevil said:


> Best tips for a beginner trying to get into the low 40s? Just some basic techniques.
> Thanks.


If you want to spend the least effort possible practising, then a CFOP solve should suffice. Just find a half decent x-cross and then spam F2Ls until you find one that gives OLL/PLL skip or some other 1LLL. That should get you 45 moves or lower already


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## cuBerBruce (Sep 27, 2012)

This is my 2nd place solution at Princeton, and a PB official WCA result. 14-move F2L minus 1 slot, but failed to find good insertions for a corner 5-cycle in the time I had.
Just good enough to get 2nd place.

Scramble: B' L2 F' R D' B2 U R D B L' U2 D2 B' U B2 D'
(I generated this from Cube Explorer, may not be the actual scramble sequence.)

Initial start:
2x2x1: B2 D' B
This left the UF edge (for finishing the 2x2x2) flipped in place.
So I added F2 at the beginning. (Perhaps should have continued with R creating pseudo 2x2x2.)
This allowed finishing the 2x2x2 with L' F R'.
Then U B' U2 created a pseudo 2x2x3.

So then I started over using premove U.

Use premove U before scrambling.
2x2x3: F2 B2 D' B L' F R' U B' U2 (10+1=11/11)
F2L minus 1 slot: L D' L (3/14)
L5E: D2 F' D R' D' R D F (8/22)
Leaves a 5-cycle, solved as two 3-cycles.
First 3-cycle: F L' F' R F L F' . R' (8-1=7/29)
Insert at ".": F' D' B' D F D' B D (8-1=7/36)
Premove correction: U (counted for 2x2x3)


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## okayama (Oct 7, 2012)

My winning solve in Asian Championship 2012.

Scramble: B D R2 B2 R F2 D R2 L' F U2 R B2 U2 L' B2 L2 F2 L2
Solution: U D2 L2 B2 R2 B2 D L U' B2 D B2 D' B2 U D2 B2 D B' L B2 L' B2 U R D' R' U' R D2 R' (31 HTM)



Spoiler



I firstly, maybe in 3 min or so, found a nice start:

2x2x3 block: U D2 L2 B2 R2 B2 D L

However I couldn't find any good continuation in time. 
In 50 min I decided to write down some solution based on the start.

All but 3 corners: U' B2 D B2 + D' B2 U D2 B2 D B' L B2 L' B2 R * D R' (found on inverse)
Insert at *: R' U R D' R' U' R D

I found the insertion by looking backward from the end of the skeleton, and
I didn't search the whole skeleton. Actually the optimal insertion is:
Insert at +: B U B' D' B U' B' D
which results in 30 moves.

Another promising start:

[1]
Pre-scramble: B2

Pseudo 2x2x3 block: U' F2 D B' L' F2 R2

[2]
Pre-scramble: U2

Blocks: L2 U R' B2 U2 L
or
2x2x3 block: L2 U D B R' B U2 R2


Not good result for me, but it was the best I could do at the competition.


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## Brest (Oct 7, 2012)

Harvard Fall 2012
B2 U2 B2 R U2 B2 R' U2 F' D F' R F2 L2 B' R U B' U'


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## porkynator (Oct 7, 2012)

My first and only (for now) official FMC solve: *28 HTM, Italian NR!*

I don't have the scramble, so this is inverse solution: B2 D2 L D F L2 B L' F' L B' D' L D F' D2 F D' L F2 D' F' L2 D' B' R2 B R2
Solution:


Spoiler



Premoves: D2 B2
R2 B' R2 B _//2x2x2 (4/4)_
D L2 F D F2 _//2x2x3 (5/9)_
L' D F' D2 F D' _//F2L-1 (6/15)_
L' D * L' F L' F' D' L' _//All but 3 corners (8/23)_
D2 B2 _//Undo premoves (2/25)_
* = B L' F L B' L' F' L _//Corners 3-cycle (8-5/28)_
Final solution: R2 B' R2 B D L2 F D F2 L' D F' D2 F D' L' D B L' F L B' L2 F' D' L' D2 B2 (28 HTM)



And by the way, my PB at home was "only" 32!


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## Pyjam (Oct 7, 2012)

Bravo !


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## Cubenovice (Oct 8, 2012)

porkynator said:


> My first and only (for now) official FMC solve: *28 HTM, Italian NR!*



Congratulations!
It is always nice to see records being set with advanced FMC methods.

Looks like this was a good comp for you; some nice BLD results too


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## porkynator (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks!
It was a good competition, but I'm not really satisfied about the 3BLD PB, I was hoping for NR, since I trained a lot.
But I'm really happy after all


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## BQ (Oct 9, 2012)

okayama said:


> My winning solve in Asian Championship 2012.
> 
> I firstly, maybe in 3 min or so, found a nice start:
> 
> 2x2x3 block: U D2 L2 B2 R2 B2 D L



I found the same 223 block too but failed to end with a good solution.

The following is my solution:



Spoiler



2*3*3 block with 3 1*1*2 blocks: L' F D' R U2 D B' D2 L2 D L * R'
F2L: B' U B2 U2 B' U' B U
Last 3 corners: L' D' B' D B L B
Insert at *: L' B R B' L B R' B'

The final solution: L' F D' R U2 D B' D2 L2 D B R B' L B R' B' R' B' U B2 U2 B' U' B U L' D' B' D B L B (33 moves)

The insertion is one of the optimal insertions.


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## Cubenovice (Oct 9, 2012)

okayama said:


> Scramble: B D R2 B2 R F2 D R2 L' F U2 R B2 U2 L' B2 L2 F2 L2


Interesting scramble!
By using NISS there is a 3 move roux block and after 6 moves 1st part of the 2nd block (sorry, notes page at home…)
But even with all these blocks I could not find a nice continuation… 



okayama said:


> Not good result for me, but it was the best I could do at the competition.


But you won the comp nevertheless 




Brest said:


> Harvard Fall 2012
> B2 U2 B2 R U2 B2 R' U2 F' D F' R F2 L2 B' R U B' U'


Lol scramble, blocks galore!
And it shows in the results too 
What happened with your solve?


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## ybs1230 (Oct 11, 2012)

My Asian championship 2012 FMC (2nd runner-up) and PB


Scramble: B D R2 B2 R F2 D R2 L' F U2 R B2 U2 L' B2 L2 F2 L2
Solution : (f2) U L F2 L F L' R' D2 (u') U' F U' R2 (u') R' U' R F R' F' U2 R U R' U' R U' R' U' R U R' U' R U' R' (34)

2x2x2 : (f2) U L F2 L F L' R' D2 (8)
2X2X3 : (u') U' F U' R2 (4)
Edge orientation + cross + F2L 3# : (u') R' U' R F R' F' (6)
F2L 4# + COLL : U2 R U R' U' R U' R' U' R U R' U' R U' R' (16)


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## guusrs (Oct 11, 2012)

okayama said:


> My winning solve in Asian Championship 2012.
> 
> Scramble: B D R2 B2 R F2 D R2 L' F U2 R B2 U2 L' B2 L2 F2 L2
> Solution: U D2 L2 B2 R2 B2 D L U' B2 D B2 D' B2 U D2 B2 D B' L B2 L' B2 U R D' R' U' R D2 R' (31 HTM)



Misleading scramble, but got a 28 move solution today during my daily bustrip


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## porkynator (Oct 28, 2012)

For the first time I used an orient-first method for an FMC solve; result was 34 HTM, but I got F2L-1 + EO in 16.
Scramble: R2 F2 L2 U2 L2 U R2 F2 D L2 U' R U' F L2 F2 L2 D2 F2
L2 F2 D2 F' _//EO(4/4)_
R' L D2 L U _//Line + 2x2x2 (5/9)_
D R' D _//2x2x3 (3/12)_
R2 F2 R' F2 _//F2L-1+EO (4/16)_
And then I could'nt find a good solution during the rest of the hour (I always give myself one hour for an FMC attempt). This was my best:
D R D' _//One pair (3/19)_
R2 D R D' R D R' * D' R _//All but 3 corners (9/28)_
* = B D' F' D B' D' F D _//Corner 3-cycle (8-2/34)_
Any idea on how to continue after the F2L-1?


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## porkynator (Nov 3, 2012)

(Sorry for double posting)
I randomly decided to compete at fmc.mustcube.net and...


Spoiler



Scramble (fmc-mustcube.net round #422): F' L B' D' U2 L F D2 B L' F' B2 R B2 U2 L' R B L F2 D R' F' R B F U2 D' F' B' 

I tried this scramble yesterday, but I couldn't find a good solution within the hour. So I decided to try to solve it again today, competing in the "no time limit" format. Anyway, I got this solution in about 50 minutes since I started today. I consider this my PB, although I technically used more than 1 hour.
I wanted to try to orient edges as first step again.

D F' U L B _//Orient Edges (5/5)_
L D' _//2x2x1 (2/7)_
L U2 L2 U2 _//Another 2x2x1 and a nice CE pair (4/11)_
* L2 U _//Lots of blocks! (2/13)_
L D' L D B2 D2 R D _//All but 3 corners (8/21)_
* = B' R B L2 B' R' B L2 _//Corner 3-cycle, 2 moves cancel out (6/27)_

Final Solution: D F' U L B L D' L U2 L2 U2 B' R B L2 B' R' B U L D' L D B2 D2 R D (27 HTM), my new PB!
I'm starting to thing that orienting edges first can be very good for FMC.


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## manyhobbyfreak (Nov 3, 2012)

Dutch open 2012:
D2 F2 L B2 U2 B2 L2 U2 B' D' B R U2 F R' D2 B' D R

I didn't have enough time to finish my solve.


Spoiler: my solution



F D2 F2 R2 4/4 2x2x2 block
B2 L B2 L' D2 B L 7/11 f2l - 1
B R D R' D' B2 6/17 orienting edges
D' B D B' D2 B D 7/24 solving everything exept for 3 corners


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## Ranzha (Nov 22, 2012)

D2 F2 L U2 F2 U B R2 L' F2 D' R2 D2 R2 B2 D B2 D'

CFOP-style F2L with SV, CLL skip, and ELL.
Took about 30 minutes.

y' x'
U' R' D F2 L D L' D' // 2x-cross [8]
F' U2 F2 R' F' R // 3rd pair [6/14]
y U R' U2 R y U' R U' R' // 4th pair with SV [8/22]
R' U2 R U B L U2 L' U' B' U // ELL [11-1/32]


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## Ranzha (Nov 23, 2012)

B R' L' D B2 L' U2 F2 U F R2 L2 U' D2 L2 U2 L2 F2 R2 D2

Like a bau5
Took nearly the entire hour.

U2 D L' B' U2 D2 L U2 // 2x2x3 [8]
[U' B2 U: (R2 F2)3] // Insertion for edges [12-1/19]
[U' B2 U, F'] // Insertion for corners [8-7/20]
D2 F D F2 D2 // 3x-cross + corner [5/25]

Final solution: U2 D L' B' U2 D2 L U B2 U R2 F2 R2 F2 R2 F U' B2 U F D2 F D F2 D2 (25f)


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## porkynator (Nov 23, 2012)

PB, 24 moves using Roux!

Scramble (speedcubing.it weekly competition): F2 R2 D2 F2 U' L2 D U R2 L2 U' L' B' D2 F2 L' F2 U' F' U' L2 U2


Spoiler



U' L2 F2 R' _//3x2x1 (4/4)_
B2 D' B R' _//2x2x1 (4/8) _
F2 R' F D' F' D2 R' * D' _//Last pair and CLL (8/16)_
F' B U B2 _//All but 3 edges (4/20)_
* = F D' F' B R F' R' F B' D _//Edges 3 cycle (10-6/24)_
Final Solution: U' L2 F2 R' B2 D' B R' F2 R' F D' F' D2 R' F D' F' B R F' R' U B2 (24 HTM)


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## TheNextFeliks (Dec 9, 2012)

*Noob to FMC*

I am new to FMC. I would like to learn how to get good at it. I presently know all of the big 4 methods. Which of those four should I use or should I freestyle? What tips do you have?


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## mycube (Dec 9, 2012)

freestyle as a mixture of all methods is the best alternative. you need a lot of blockbuilding(e.g. roux). and practice.
also try to understand and use NISS and insertions. just take a look at some examples. it's the best way to understand what you can do at FMC.


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## Cubenovice (Dec 9, 2012)

Read the FMC wiki, it has a good description and has links to the best threads, like this one.


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## brandbest1 (Dec 9, 2012)

I still don't get premoves. What is the point of them and how can you discover which premoves to use?


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## Cubenovice (Dec 9, 2012)

brandbest1 said:


> I still don't get premoves. What is the point of them and how can you discover which premoves to use?



read from here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=772166&viewfull=1#post772166


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## okayama (Dec 10, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> brandbest1 said:
> 
> 
> > I still don't get premoves. What is the point of them and how can you discover which premoves to use?
> ...


And also my post:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=667292&viewfull=1#post667292


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## brandbest1 (Dec 10, 2012)

Premove + Scramble: F' L' B' L U D L' + D2 R' B2 D2 R U2 R B2 L2 U2 F2 D' B' D2 U' L D2 B2 F' D' (from the holiday competition)
2x2x3: B U R' U' R U R * U'

Insert at *: F2 D B D' F2 D B' D'

F2L: R D B R2 B' R2 F' R' F
OLL:F R2 F2 R' F R' F' R2 U F U'
PLL: D2 R S' R2 S R D2 R'
Undo Premoves: F' L' B' L U D L'

Solution: B U R' U' R U R F2 D B D' F2 D B' D' U' R D B R2 B' R2 F' R' F2 R2 F2 R' F R' F' R2 U F U' D2 R S' R2 S R D2 R' F' L' B' L U D L'

Yeah, this is my first time trying out insertions and premoves, what a way to start!

Help is appreciated.


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## CubeRoots (Dec 12, 2012)

my first proper attempt at fmc took me 50 mins. looking for tips help advice and improvements etc if possible!

scramble: B' L2 D R F' R B D R2 B2 U2 F2 D' U' R L B F2 D U' R2 U' R2 U' F2

solution i ended up using zz style solve
EOLine: B' R' U' F B2
square , two pairs and offset line: R' U' R D2
solve blocks (rh is offset) and correct line: U2 R2 L' D2 L2 R (U' R'...
diag antisune COLL: ...R U2) r' F R' F' r U' R U' R'
optimal Uperm: B2 U M U2 M' U B2 R

35 htm

thanks in advance!

edit x2 at start (sorry Daniel  )


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## kinch2002 (Dec 12, 2012)

DNF...you forgot the x2 rotation after scrambling :/


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## CubeRoots (Dec 12, 2012)

Scramble: B' L2 D R F' R B D R2 B2 U2 F2 D' U' R L B F2 D U' R2 U' R2 U' F2

x2 B' R' U' F B2 // eoline (5,5) 

R' U' R D2 U2 R2 L' D2 L2 // blockbuilding (9,14)

y2 L U' L2 U R U' L' U // niklas and last block (8,22)

R U R2 U' R2 x y U2 R' U2 r U2 L' D // (12,34) Cancelling Tperm and fixing the offset block

34 HTM

improved and corrected the solution I already posted. Can anyone tell me what 'NISS' actually means? A search reveals very little. I find FMC really interesting and wanna improve. Also, I am struggling to understand exactly what a premove is... any help/suggestions for improving skill in fmc would be greatly appreciated


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## angham (Dec 12, 2012)

CubeRoots said:


> Can anyone tell me what 'NISS' actually means?


It stands for normal-inverse scramble switch. It is where you switch to the inverse of the scramble ie. R U B becomes B' U' R' because it may have better options available eg. easier 2x2x2 block. Then you just invert your solution for the inverted scramble and it will solve the original scramble. You can also do this part way through a solve doing the inverse of the moves you already did before the inverse scramble.
see this for an example
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=258791&viewfull=1#post258791



CubeRoots said:


> Also, I am struggling to understand exactly what a premove is


A premove is a move you do before the scramble and then add on to the end of the solution to make the solution easier
For example consider the scramble D L2 B2 D' L2 F2 D2 F2 D' L2 U R' U' R2 B' L2 D' F U F R
If you do the moves L' U' L U2 there is a nice 2x2x2 block at the back, however the colours do not match up. If the white side were to be completely solved, a U2 would solve this block. So applying a U2 at the start of the scramble gives a 4 move 2x2x2 block, although you must put U2 at the end of your solve as well

One last thing, in fmc a rotation such as x counts as a move


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## irontwig (Dec 12, 2012)

angham said:


> One last thing, in fmc a rotation such as x counts as a move



No it doesn't. But you should write your solution down without rotations, it makes e.g. insertions easier.


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## angham (Dec 12, 2012)

irontwig said:


> No it doesn't. But you should write your solution down without rotations, it makes e.g. insertions easier.



oh, sorry, then i have been misinformed


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## tseitsei (Dec 12, 2012)

what is a decent number of moves for 2x2x3 block and/or F2L-1?

I never know when I should look for something better and when to go with what I already have...


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## brandbest1 (Dec 13, 2012)

brandbest1 said:


> Premove + Scramble: F' L' B' L U D L' + D2 R' B2 D2 R U2 R B2 L2 U2 F2 D' B' D2 U' L D2 B2 F' D' (from the holiday competition)
> 2x2x3: B U R' U' R U R * U'
> 
> Insert at *: F2 D B D' F2 D B' D'
> ...



Bump.


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## kinch2002 (Dec 13, 2012)

tseitsei said:


> what is a decent number of moves for 2x2x3 block and/or F2L-1?
> 
> I never know when I should look for something better and when to go with what I already have...


Well that depends on how good you are at FMC. It's like asking what a good time for F2L is.
It also depends on what you have after the 2x2x3 (mostly the EO). If you're aiming for sub-30 (as I always do) then I certainly wouldn't move on until I had a 10 mover and usually would hope for 8/9. Again, that depends on the scramble, but it generally seems possible for me to get this whatever the scramble.



brandbest1 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OLL, PLL and an insertion is way too many steps. From what I can tell, the F2L is what you're solving 'wrong' to leave an insertion. This is an odd tactic, especially given that it isn't a very short 'F2L' (24 moves?). Try to solve to F2L and then force a 1LLL somehow (e.g. 3 corners left to insert/some sort of skip)


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## Cubenovice (Dec 13, 2012)

Brandbest, try these starts and see how they work
F U' F U' R' U
or
F U' F U2 R' U2

2x2x3 in 7 moves incl premove R2


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## brandbest1 (Dec 13, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> Brandbest, try these starts and see how they work
> F U' F U' R' U
> or
> F U' F U2 R' U2
> ...



lol i'm a blockbuilding cfop noob.


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## Username (Dec 15, 2012)

Could someone give me some FMC tips?


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## Cubenovice (Dec 15, 2012)

Username said:


> Could someone give me some FMC tips?




http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Fewest_Moves

Make sure to check the links at the bottom of the wiki page


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## Username (Dec 15, 2012)

Cubenovice said:


> http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Fewest_Moves
> 
> Make sure to check the links at the bottom of the wiki page



Thanks! I'll check it out 

Edit: I don't really understand the methods, i use Fridrich as speed and i don't know anything else.


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## Cubenovice (Dec 15, 2012)

Username said:


> I don't really understand the methods, i use Fridrich as speed and i don't know anything else.



The good thing about FMC is that you don't need methods 

Blockbuilding is intuitive, combined with some trial and error it is a powerful FMC tool.

Simple FMC approach:
Use blockbuilding to make a xxx-cross
Orient / Permute edges (intuitive)
Solve the remaining 3, 4 or 5 corners with commutators, preferably inserted into the earlier part of the solution.

So if there is anything to 'learn' then it's actually commutators.


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## CubeRoots (Dec 17, 2012)

Decided to have a go at a timed FMC, using newly learned techniques of premoves, NISS, and solving all but 3 corners, instead of my usual methods.

scramble was from chatroom: R2 L2 F D F' U R' D U L2 R B' L B F R U' R2 F' L2 D' L' U' F L

Inverse, [Premove: F]: D
Normal, [Premove: D']: [F'] R B
Inverse, [Premove: B' R' F]: [D] R U L F U' L2
Normal, [Premove: L2 U F' L' U' R' D']: [F' R B] R' F' R F2 D' F' D2 R'
Inverse, [Premove: R D2 F D F2 R' F R B' R' F]: [D R U L F U' L2] D R D R' U R' D R' D' R' D R2 U' D

This gives skeleton for normal scramble of F' R B R' F' R F2 D' F' D2 R' D' U R2 D' R D R D' R U' R D' R' D' L2 U F' L' U' R' D' (32 moves)

Leaving 3 Corners to comm in somewhere. Ran out of time here and just did L F' L' B L F L' B'. I could go back and find best place etc but I can do that already, what I really need help with is this skeleton. I found the scramble pretty hard, and basically after the F2L-1 bit It all goes downhill . Anyone have some good resources/advice they know of to help me with getting to all but 3 corners solved? or have some advice on the solution I showed here. Disappointed with this solve, normally gett sub 35 without all these crazy techniques


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## kinch2002 (Dec 17, 2012)

CubeRoots said:


> Decided to have a go at a timed FMC, using newly learned techniques of premoves, NISS, and solving all but 3 corners, instead of my usual methods.
> 
> scramble was from chatroom: R2 L2 F D F' U R' D U L2 R B' L B F R U' R2 F' L2 D' L' U' F L
> 
> ...


At this point, you're right - the solve goes downhill. Either you didn't leave enough time to find a good skeleton finish, or you weren't patient enough, or you just aren't knowledgeable enough yet.
10 move 2x2x3 is fine to aim for 30 move solutions.
F2L can be done with R' F' R2 F R' D2 R'. Play around with that. Maybe try any LL ELL algs you know to force 3 corners. Afraid I'm not in the mood for FMC right now so I'm not going to finish it. Try doing EO during F2L. Pseudo F2Ls etc.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 17, 2012)

Has anyone tried the iPod App called Cube Wizard? It's an app that can solve your 3x3 but it solves it in 21-23 moves and use a weird solution.


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## CubeRoots (Dec 17, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> Has anyone tried the iPod App called Cube Wizard? It's an app that can solve your 3x3 but it solves it in 21-23 moves and use a weird solution.



I jut downloaded it, actually an awesome app


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## Michael Womack (Dec 17, 2012)

CubeRoots said:


> I jut downloaded it, actually an awesome app



Glad you liked it.


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## CubeRoots (Dec 22, 2012)

Looking for some help (again ) this time it's with insertions. Scramble is the following:

U2 D2 B R' B' L' D R U' D' F2 L' B L2 F2 D' U2 L B2 L2 F' B2 U B2 R' 

solution as follows:

Normal (premoves: R2 D2 R2 F'), D' L U L2 F' D L R2... // F2L less one slot, and EO (essentially 12 moves)

... B' D B D B' D B D //all but 4 corners. (essentially 20 moves)

now this sucks as I have a corner orientation issue. How does one deal with this with insertions etc? atm all I can think of is to do a comm somewhere to cycle the three around and leave 2 corners misoriented, which I can solve mid solution too. Feels very inefficient. How would you finish?


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## Cubenovice (Dec 22, 2012)

CubeRoots said:


> now this sucks as I have a corner orientation issue. How does one deal with this with insertions etc? atm all I can think of is to do a comm somewhere to cycle the three around and leave 2 corners misoriented, which I can solve mid solution too. Feels very inefficient. How would you finish?



It's not too bad, there's ony one corner twisted in place.

You solve this with 2 commutators:
1st: solve 1 corner and break the twisted corner free
2nd: the three remaining corners

In the 1st comm you can typically cancel a ton of moves as your 3rd piece in the cycle can by any of the two remaining corners and their orientation doesn't matter. So there are MANY possible insertions.


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## kinch2002 (Dec 22, 2012)

Let's say that A->B->C and D is twisted so C->A* (some other sticker on piece A)
At each move in the solution, you look for the following:
Is A->B interchangeable? Is B->C interchangeable, Is C->A* interchangeable?
Let's say that A->B is interchangeable.
You need to find a comm using that interchange where the third sticker involved is any sticker of D.
This freedom of the third sticker makes the 1st insertion better than a standard 3 corner insertion.
Once you've found the best possible 1st insertion, write down your solution with it, and resolve. You should see that you have 3 corners left to insert.

Here are the number I have in my head of how many moves I think each type of insertions will take. They are not in any way mathematically based - just my general feel for them.
3 corners left = 6 moves
2+2 cycle left (either with or without extra orientation) = 9-10 moves
3 cycle + twisted corner = 10-11 moves
5 cycle = 10-11 moves
2 twist = 9 moves
3 twist = Never tried it but optimal alg is 13 moves. 2 insertions using the same 3 pieces both times may give you 10-11 moves I think


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## Cubenovice (Dec 22, 2012)

Don't feel like sticklering for cycles but here's what can be done at the end

L' F2 L B' L' F2 L B solves a corners and breaks out the twisted one
But it does not leave a nice cycle

the alternative is D L D' R2 D L'. D' R2 which leaves an 8 mover
but a quick peek reveals that I can insert L' U' L D L' U L D' at . to cancel 2 moves

The B' D B D B' D B D part in your solution could be a good spot for the 1st insertion but I am too lazy to check.


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## okayama (Dec 22, 2012)

My winning solve from Kanto Winter 2012

Scramble: F2 U' L2 D B2 L2 U' L D' B' U' F' L2 F' R2 F2 D2 B R2 U'
Solution: F U' L2 U F L' U' B2 R B R' B F2 U F L' R2 D' L D R2 D' L' R' B2 R' F2 U' (28 HTM)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L F' U' L2 U F'

c/e pair: U
2x2x2 block: F2 R B2 R D *
F2L minus 1 slot: L F' U' F2
All but 3 corners: B' R B' R' B2 U
Correction: L F' U' L2 U F'

Insert at *: D' L D R2 D' L' D R2


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## kinch2002 (Dec 23, 2012)

F' U L F2 R F' L' U' F R' F2 U L2 F' R F2 L2 U2 R U' L U' R' F' U L F L' U2 F'
The most blocks I've ever seen on a scramble
I was about to do some OH, but this was the first scramble that appeared so I had to FMC instead.

F2L: R' F' U F R L' F R U' R2 (10)
LL: R B' R' B U2 B U2 B' (*17 moves*)

Found this other 10 move F2L as well: L' F R U' R2 L F' U F L'

Although FM UWR is kind of meaningless, I was wondering what the lowest anyone has got on a proper 3x3 scramble that was meant for them is? By 'meant for them', I mean either it was part of a FM competition or they generated it themselves.
As people generally don't count speedsolving PBs when someone else hands them an easy scramble they got, I think passing scrambles on shouldn't really be counted in FM either


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## Julian (Dec 23, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> F' U L F2 R F' L' U' F R' F2 U L2 F' R F2 L2 U2 R U' L U' R' F' U L F L' U2 F'
> The most blocks I've ever seen on a scramble


wtf
There's nothing not part of a block.


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## okayama (Dec 24, 2012)

My winning solve from Hokuriku Eve Open 2012

Scramble: L2 B2 F2 R U2 L F2 L' F2 D2 R' B L F' D F' R2 D' R' D2
Solution: U' L' U L F' U' R2 L2 B2 F D' F' U' F D B2 U R U' R' U2 B' U B U2 F' U (27 HTM)


Spoiler



2x2x3 block: U' L' U L F' U' R2 L2
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 * U' B2
OLL algo: F U R U' R' F'
All but 3 corners: F U2 B' U B U2 F' U

Insert at *: F D' F' U' F D F' U


I believe this scramble has a great potential to achieve a short solution.
I expected Sub 25 during the solve but I couldn't find such a solution.

I hope you guys will try it and would like to see what can be done to this scramble.

EDIT: recent official average of 12: (27), 29, 28, 32, 31, (34), 27, 29, 30, 31, 28, 27 = 29.2 a little bitty improvement


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## okayama (Dec 26, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> F' U L F2 R F' L' U' F R' F2 U L2 F' R F2 L2 U2 R U' L U' R' F' U L F L' U2 F'
> The most blocks I've ever seen on a scramble
> I was about to do some OH, but this was the first scramble that appeared so I had to FMC instead.
> 
> ...



Now I have a time, and tried the scramble. awesome.

Here is my 10 min solution, 16 moves:


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: L' U F

Orient edges: U F' L' F
Expand block: R U'
More square: R2 F2
F2L minus 1 slot: L F2
All: R U R'
Correction: L' U F


Furthermore I found the following 15-move solution in 40 min:


Spoiler



(Inverse)
More square: U F' U'
More square: F
More square: R2 U F'
F2L minus 1 slot: L F R' F'
All: F' L F L' U'

I solved the inverse scramble, but the final solution on the given scramble:
U L F' L' F2 R F' L' F U' R2 F' U F U'
is reasonably understandable. 



By the way, I quote the statement from the wiki, which may answer your question.


> The best known unofficial result (using a properly scrambled cube) is 18 moves in Weekly Competition 2012-20 by Guus Razoux Schultz.


Of course this time's scramble is not a proper one. 

AFAIK, Sub 20 solutions (for a proper scramble) in 1-hour have been found only three times so far.

Mirek Goljan (19 moves)
Guus Razoux Schultz (19 moves)
Guus Razoux Schultz (18 moves)


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## guusrs (Dec 26, 2012)

okayama said:


> My winning solve from Hokuriku Eve Open 2012
> 
> Scramble: L2 B2 F2 R U2 L F2 L' F2 D2 R' B L F' D F' R2 D' R' D2
> Solution: U' L' U L F' U' R2 L2 B2 F D' F' U' F D B2 U R U' R' U2 B' U B U2 F' U (27 HTM)
> ...



Hi Tomoaki: on the Hokuriku Eve scramble I got: 
F' U' F D L D R' D L D' B D' R F2 B2 L D R D' L D R F2 B2 L2 U' (26)
F2L: F' U' F D L D R' D L D' B D' R' (13)
L4C: R2 F2 B2 L D R D' L D R F2 B2 L2 U' (26)
No time left for insertions, but 12 move for 4 corners is not bad either. One of the few CLL-4C algs I know.
When starting with the obvious 3-move-2-block start (L F' U') I did not found a good continuation. Not even with inserted moves. The cube seems to be in a "wrong" state or something. But do "wrong" states exists? And how to recognize them? 
After 45min of struggling I tried non-obvious starts resulting in this nice 13 move F2L.

awesome competition average Tomoaki. Is this the best ever? How did Sebastien this year? 
PS. I have DNF too much to have an average at all.


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## okayama (Dec 26, 2012)

guusrs said:


> Hi Tomoaki: on the Hokuriku Eve scramble I got:
> F' U' F D L D R' D L D' B D' R F2 B2 L D R D' L D R F2 B2 L2 U' (26)
> F2L: F' U' F D L D R' D L D' B D' R' (13)
> L4C: R2 F2 B2 L D R D' L D R F2 B2 L2 U' (26)
> ...



Nice skeleton with 4-corners-left! Quite a similar situation to the WR (13-move skeleton with 4-corners-left).
I'd like to see the optimal insertion for that, but Insertion finder doesn't seem to work currently. 

I also investigated L F' U' start, and just got 30-move backup solution with that.

Sébastien is amazing. He got Sub 29 (from Austrian Open 2012 to Saarland Open 2012)!
27, (DNF), 27, 29, 28, 26, 29, 29, 32, 29, 29, (25) = 28.5


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## Username (Dec 26, 2012)

I decided to try FMC, so i took this scramble: U' L' F' U2 L D' L U L U2 D' B2 U' F2 B2 D' L2 D F2 D (just took something from the easy scrambles thread)

And got this: 

L2 E' L' B (4)
U2 R' U' R U B U B' (12)
F U F' L2 U2 L2 U2 S U2 S' (22)
L' U L U F U' F' (29)
M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2 (36)


I also found a 5 move XX-cross: E' d' R2 B R, but i can't find a good continuation. This is my best FMC ever. Any tips?


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## brandbest1 (Dec 26, 2012)

Username said:


> I decided to try FMC, so i took this scramble: U' L' F' U2 L D' L U L U2 D' B2 U' F2 B2 D' L2 D F2 D (just took something from the easy scrambles thread)
> 
> And got this:
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure inner slice moves count as 2 moves.


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## Username (Dec 26, 2012)

brandbest1 said:


> I'm pretty sure inner slice moves count as 2 moves.



 Then it wasn't as good as i think it was


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## okayama (Dec 27, 2012)

Username said:


> I decided to try FMC, so i took this scramble: U' L' F' U2 L D' L U L U2 D' B2 U' F2 B2 D' L2 D F2 D (just took something from the easy scrambles thread)
> 
> And got this:
> 
> ...


My quick attempt:

2x2x2 block: D
More square: U' L' U' L' F' L'
More square: F2
F2L minus 1 slot: L2 F L' F
All but 3 corners: U2 F' U2 B' U F U' B U'
Corner 3-cycle: U L U' R' U L' U' R

27 moves, but it can be shorter if you find a good insertion for the last corner 3-cycle.

Alternative finishes after the start:

F2L minus 1 slot: L2 F L' U F
All but 3 corners: B' U2 B U B' U B

F2L minus 1 slot: L2 F L' U2 F
All but 4 corners: U F' U2 F


Another attempt on inverse:

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: D'

2x2x2 block: (ready)
c/e pair: U L
2x2x3 block: F' L2 U2 F'
F2L minus 1 slot: L' F' L' F L'
All but 4 corners: L' U L U2
Correction: D'


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## cubernya (Dec 27, 2012)

Is it just me, or is IF not working? I've tried it in Chrome and Safari and got nothing


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## okayama (Dec 27, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> Is it just me, or is IF not working? I've tried it in Chrome and Safari and got nothing



The same is true for me.
I already said the problem in this post.


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## BQ (Dec 28, 2012)

okayama said:


> Nice skeleton with 4-corners-left! Quite a similar situation to the WR (13-move skeleton with 4-corners-left).
> I'd like to see the optimal insertion for that, but Insertion finder doesn't seem to work currently.
> 
> I also investigated L F' U' start, and just got 30-move backup solution with that.
> ...



something was wrong with it. i've fixed it now.



theZcuber said:


> Is it just me, or is IF not working? I've tried it in Chrome and Safari and got nothing


it's fixed now!


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## okayama (Dec 28, 2012)

BQ said:


> it's fixed now!



Thanks so much!
And it turns out that Guus' solution on the Hokuriku Eve scramble is better than the optimal two insertions... wow...

EDIT: I tried the technique: ``insert a commutator that doesn't solve any piece but just cycle unsolved pieces with many cancels'', which were used in my solve at FMC300 and also used by Sébastien in the official solve.

Scramble: L2 B2 F2 R U2 L F2 L' F2 D2 R' B L F' D F' R2 D' R' D2
Guus' skeleton (all but 4 corners): F' U' F D L D R' D L D' * B D' R' U2

Insert at *: D L' D' R D L D' R'

gives a new 13-move skeleton:

All but 4 corners: F' U' F D L D2 L # D' R' B D' R' U2

Insert at the beginning: U B2 U' F' U B2 U' F
Insert at #: B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D
(found by insertion finder)

24 moves in total, finally Sub 25.


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## brandbest1 (Dec 28, 2012)

So insertions are for when you find a skeleton (let's say a corner 3-cycle) and rather than solving it at the end, you insert it into the solution for a chance at cancellations?


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## mycube (Dec 28, 2012)

correct.


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## BQ (Dec 29, 2012)

okayama said:


> And it turns out that Guus' solution on the Hokuriku Eve scramble is better than the optimal two insertions... wow...



yeah. 4-corner cycle is always better. the IF support it by checking corner 2*2-cycle on. just see this


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## okayama (Dec 30, 2012)

BQ said:


> yeah. 4-corner cycle is always better. the IF support it by checking corner 2*2-cycle on. just see this


Oh, thanks for letting me know. 
I didn't think that 2*2-cycle could be used in that case: 3 cycle of corners and 1 twisted corner in place.


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## BQ (Dec 30, 2012)

okayama said:


> Oh, thanks for letting me know.
> I didn't think that 2*2-cycle could be used in that case: 3 cycle of corners and 1 twisted corner in place.



oops. i didn't notice the actual case. just treated it as a normal 2*2-corner cycle. i don't have any good idea to deal with 4 corners with 1 twisted, except inserting 2 3-corner cycles. Guus made a good solution!


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## TheDubDubJr (Jan 1, 2013)

I recently did a 4x4 FMC with a couple friends. It was my first time doing 4x4 FMC and I got 91. I believe slice turns counted as 1 move like r.

http://tinyurl.com/algBDw-R2BwF-D

B Dw' R2 Bw F' D' Rw' D2 Rw // (8/8) Red & Orange Centers

R2 Dw' F' Dw2 F2 Uw' L' Uw2 R2 Uw' R' Uw2 F2 Uw' // (14/22) L4C while preserving an edge

y' U L Uw' D' R D R2 D2 R F' D2 F Uw // (12/34) 6 Edges Paired

B D Bw L F' L' D F D' Fw' // (10/44) Remaining 5 Edges

L R2 U F' R F2 B R' D' B R' B R2 B' R' // (15/59) X-Cross + 2nd & 3rd F2L(with flipped corner)

z2 B' R B' R' B R B' R' z // (8/67) 4th F2L

L U R' U R U2 L' B' // (8/75) ELL

U' L' U R U' L U R' // (8/83) Comm with flipped corner

L' D' L U2 L' D L U2 // (8/91) Finishing Comm


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## Ranzha (Jan 1, 2013)

Ohai Walker! =D
That 91 was ridiculous. I got a 94 =)

So I found a 10-move skeleton to this scramble, but I found no really good finish. Is there anyone who can help?

F U2 R2 B' D2 L2 B2 R2 B R2 F' L' F2 D L U F' L2 R' U' R2
Premove: B
Skeleton: F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R D2


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## mycube (Jan 2, 2013)

Use the insertion finder:

The Scramble：F U2 R2 B' D2 L2 B2 R2 B R2 F' L' F2 D L U F' L2 R' U' R2 
Your Skeleton：F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R D' B

2 corner 3-cycle(s) and 2 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
F' R [@1] U D' L' U' B' D' R D' B
Insert at @1: F2 U D' L2 U' D
After the 1st insertion: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' [@2] B
Insert at @2: R F R' F' B U F' U' F B'
After the 2nd insertion: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' [@3] R F R' F' B U F' U' F
Insert at @3: B R F R' B' R F' R'
After the 3rd insertion: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' [@4] B R F R' F' U F' U' F
Insert at @4: L B R' B' L' B R B'
Fewest moves: 25. 18 moves cancelled
The final solution: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' L B R' B' L' B R2 F R' F' U F' U' F


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## Ranzha (Jan 2, 2013)

mycube said:


> Use the insertion finder:
> 
> The Scramble：F U2 R2 B' D2 L2 B2 R2 B R2 F' L' F2 D L U F' L2 R' U' R2
> Your Skeleton：F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R D' B
> ...



Sweet Jesus... Thank you! I lost the link I had for it. Where can I find the Insertion Finder now?


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## mycube (Jan 2, 2013)

http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if.cube 

i'm not sure if anyone could find this optimal insertions but it's crazy stuff


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## Ranzha (Jan 2, 2013)

mycube said:


> http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if.cube
> 
> i'm not sure if anyone could find this optimal insertions but it's crazy stuff



My solution:
Premove: B
F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R // mega NM blox
D2 // ADF
D R (R' D' R' D' R D R D R D') D F2 U F' D' F U' (F2 R F B' D2 F' B R F2) F2 R' // Optimal COLL with edge insertions
B // match

Final:	F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R D2 R' D' R D R D R F2 U F' D' F U' F2 R F B' D2 F' B (30f)


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## kinch2002 (Jan 2, 2013)

Anyone care to finish this one?
[21:02] <kinch2002> ,3fmc
[21:02] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #24166: U F' B2 U2 L2 U R D L' D2 B D2 L F2 D L F B L' B2 D' B' R' B2 R2

2x2x3: B' U L2 U L' D2 L
Switch to inverse with premoves B L' D2 L U' L2 U' B (the extra B corrects the pseudo F2L)
F2L: B2 U B U B' U B2 (15)


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## okayama (Jan 4, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> Anyone care to finish this one?
> [21:02] <kinch2002> ,3fmc
> [21:02] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #24166: U F' B2 U2 L2 U R D L' D2 B D2 L F2 D L F B L' B2 D' B' R' B2 R2
> 
> ...


My 7 min attempt with your premoves:

F2L minus 1 slot: B2 U' B2
More square: U B' U B
More c/e pair: U
More c/e pair: L
More c/e pair: U2 *
All but 3 c/e pairs: L'
Correction: B L' D2 L U' L2 U' B

Insert at *: L Uw' R' Uw L' Uw' R Uw (or Uw B Uw' F' Uw B' Uw' F)

27 moves.


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## okayama (Jan 10, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> Hi Bruce, thank you for your feedback.
> Too bad there is no info on Heise as I was really wondering how having to work with one open slot would compare to the larger freedom in Petrus.
> 
> 
> ...



Insertion Finder did the job:

2 corner 3-cycle(s) and 2 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
R' L2 B2 [@1] R' B' L2
Insert at @1: D' F D [@2] R' L B' D' [@4] B R L'
Insert at @2: L B' R' B [@3] L' B' R B
Insert at @3: R' U' R U R L' B' R' B L
Insert at @4: R2 B L' B' R2 B L B'
Fewest moves: 22. 20 moves cancelled
The final solution: R' L2 B2 D' F D L B' R' B R' U' R U B' D' R2 B L' B' R2 L2
Runtime: 93468.1 milliseconds​Almost impossible to find for human beings.


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## Sebastien (Jan 10, 2013)

I should definitely look in here more often.



okayama said:


> Sébastien is amazing. He got Sub 29 (from Austrian Open 2012 to Saarland Open 2012)!
> 27, (DNF), 27, 29, 28, 26, 29, 29, 32, 29, 29, (25) = 28.5



Thanks 

You got a better overall year statistic though. 12 sub30s out of 20 attempts, resulting in a median of 29 and a mean of 29.5, amazing. 

After a very bad start this year I got 18 sub30s out of 36 attempts, leaving me a median of 29.5. As I tend to rage-DNF when not finding anything very close to 30 there is no mean for me. 

Mean without DNFs is 29.26, but that doesn't mean too much. Counting all DNFs as 35 I get 30.2.


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## Tong Haiwu (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: ShengShou Megaminx*

I wonder what's the meaning of "pre-scramble",and why do it?


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## Noaphiel (Jan 19, 2013)

This was my first FMC-attemp in my life, i just started learning the theory a few days ago. If anyone would mind to finish my start I would be glad . I found a very nice start and tried alot to finish this, but only got a terribad solution. I would be glad if someone would take a try after F2L-1.

Scramble: D B2 D U2 L2 D2 F' U2 D' F D F L U2 D2 F2 D L' F2 D B2 F' L2 U R2 

Start:
R U' L' F * L' - 2x2x2 [5/5]
D' F2 R D' R' D2 L' F' L - F2L-1 [9/14] (i'm happy until this point)

Rest of my solution :
F R' F R U F U' R' F R F' - all but L5C [11/25]
Insert at *: F2 L B' L' F2 + L B L' [8-2/31]
Insert at +: F' U F D2 F' U' F D2 [8-1/38]

(InsertionFinder got 6 moves cancellation as optimal, but that would still be only 35moves)


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## kinch2002 (Jan 21, 2013)

No particular reason for posting this, other than that it's a decent attempt

[21:17] <+MLSTRM> ,3 fmc
[21:17] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #24253: B2 R U B F2 U D F B' U' R D2 R D F2 B2 D F2 U' L' R' D' U R L2

F' makes a square on normal scramble, so use premove F and scramble inverse
Inverse Scramble: L2 R' U' D R L U F2 D' B2 F2 D' R' D2 R' U B F' D' U' F2 B' U' R' B2
2x2x3: R2 L2 U2 L2 D L2
Pseudo F2L: R B' R' U' B2
To correct the pseudo-ness, use premoves B2 U' F, scramble inverse, and do those 2 steps above.
Now a FULULF then a sune solves the LL to give *28 moves*


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## coldsun0630 (Jan 22, 2013)

um... excuse me but what is "all but 3(or 4) corners"?
i can see that on tomoaki's solution but i can't understand..


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## mycube (Jan 22, 2013)

try it and it's easy. It's solved except those corners


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## Brest (Jan 23, 2013)

Walker asked me how I would do an FMC solve on this scramble:

R' U2 R' U2 L2 D2 R' D2 R F L R2 B2 D B' L B U'



Spoiler: Solution



The flipped edge is bad, so look for a pseudo block for the 1x2x2 rather than trying to flip. Maybe use the inverse scramble, either to find the pseudo or after making the pseudo.
Flipping the edge to make a 2x2x2 is 5 moves, so unless you do something else at the same time you're not taking advantage of the 1x2x2 block.
There are 3 edges that make a pseudo 2x2x2.
WB is 4 moves + 1 premove so it's no better than fixing the flipped edge.
YB: U B2 L premove (L')
WG: B' U2 L' premove (L)

expanding on the WG start:

(L) // premove
B' U2 L' // 2x2x2
B' D R B R' // 2x2x3
B D2 // 1x2x2
B D' B2 R' B' R (*) // leave 2e2c (lol Vperm)
L // add premove
http://tinyurl.com/algB-U2L-2x2x2B

* insert Vperm
x2 R' U R' d' R' D R' D' R2 F' R' F R F x2 // 2 moves cancel
=
B' U2 L' B' D R B R' B D2 B D' B2 R' B' D R' D' F' U F' U' F2 R' F' R F R L (29)

-*-*-*-

alternative progression:
(L) // premove
B' U2 L' // 2x2x2
B' D2 B2 D B' // pseudo F2L-1 (find additional premove B')
R' F2 U F U' F R // EO & leave 4 corners
B' L // add premoves
http://tinyurl.com/b8yc7cx
=
B' U2 L' B' D2 (@) B2 D B' R' F2 U F (#) U' F R B' L

insert at # [F, U' B U] // 3 moves cancel
insert at @ [D F D', B2] // 5 moves cancel
=
B' U2 L' B' D' F D' B2 D F' B' R' F2 U F2 U' B U F' U' B' F R B' L (25)


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## brandbest1 (Jan 23, 2013)

Brest said:


> Walker asked me how I would do an FMC solve on this scramble:
> 
> R' U2 R' U2 L2 D2 R' D2 R F L R2 B2 D B' L B U'
> 
> ...



for the alternate approach, how do you add a premove within the solution?


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## Brest (Jan 23, 2013)

brandbest1 said:


> for the alternate approach, how do you add a premove within the solution?



Solve the cube and re-start with the additional premove.


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## TheDubDubJr (Jan 23, 2013)

Brest said:


> Walker asked me how I would do an FMC solve on this scramble:
> 
> R' U2 R' U2 L2 D2 R' D2 R F L R2 B2 D B' L B U'
> =
> B' U2 L' B' D' F D' B2 D F' B' R' F2 U F2 U' B U F' U' B' F R B' L (25)



So Good Brest <3


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## brandbest1 (Jan 23, 2013)

Did another FMC, my solution was a bit icky:

B2 L2 D2 F2 D2 U L2 F2 U F2 D2 B U' L D2 L D2 R F R' U 

F' R F2 U' L' U //first block
U' B2 R' B' R U // square
R Fw' R Fw R' D R D' U R U' //F2L 3rd
F' R2 F R2 U' R D2 R' U R D2 R2 // finish F2L and corners
z' Rw R' U Rw' R U' Rw R' U Rw' R U Rw R' U2 Rw' R //ELL


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## okayama (Jan 27, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> I should definitely look in here more often.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, in median I won. 

For personal interest, I investigated the best average of 12 in the official results of the top rankers (single <= 32).


Sébastien Auroux 27, (DNF), 27, 29, 28, 26, 29, 29, 32, 29, 29, (25) = 28.5
Tomoaki Okayama (27), 29, 28, 32, 31, (34), 27, 29, 30, 31, 28, 27 = 29.2
Tim Reynolds 27, 35, 29, 30, 26, 33, 33, 33, 31, (DNF), (24), 30 = 30.7
Mario Laurent (37), 32, (28), 36, 31, 31, 32, 34, 37, 33, 30, 29 = 32.5
Simon Westlund 31, 29, 34, 34, 31, (27), 34, 36, 32, (37), 33, 34 = 32.8
Shuang Chen 37, 33, 41, (42), 34, 30, 33, 31, 30, (28), 32, 32 = 33.3
Clément Gallet 28, 35, 33, 32, 35, 42, 39, 27, 32, (DNF), (26), 31 = 33.4
Erik Akkersdijk 33, 31, 31, (40), 30, 33, 32, 33, 37, 35, (26), 39 = 33.4
Timothy Sun 34, (30), 41, 34, 34, 32, 34, 35, 35, 32, 37, (DNS) = 34.8
Bence Barát 35, 36, 32, 36, (39), (30), 36, 35, 34, 38, 33, 35 = 35.0
Piotr Kózka 35, (46), 39, 35, 33, 34, 35, 35, 36, (33), 33, 37 = 35.2
Michał Pleskowicz 35, 38, (28), 40, 35, 32, 39, 41, 37, 29, (47), 31 = 35.7
Maarten Smit 34, 36, 40, 37, 31, 38, 37, (43), 38, 32, 34, (30) = 35.7
Arnaud van Galen 35, 36, (28), 35, 43, 45, 31, 29, 34, 40, (DNF), 36 = 36.4
Yunqi Ouyang (29), (40), 35, 46, 40, 35, 36, 36, 39, 37, 36, 32 = 37.2
Lorenzo Vigani Poli (DNF), 37, 47, 39, 38, 39, 42, 39, 36, 31, (29), 33 = 38.1
Mike Hughey 45, 38, 37, 33, 46, 39, 38, (31), 44, 33, (DNF), 35 = 38.8
Dániel Varga (DNF), 36, 39, 48, 42, 43, 35, 41, 42, (30), 41, 33 = 40.0
Bob Burton (34), (52), 40, 40, 43, 47, 40, 38, 45, 40, 40, 45 = 41.8
Henrik Buus Aagaard 39, 39, 44, 43, (DNF), 51, (29), 43, 47, 41, 40, 37 = 42.4
Kåre Krig (39), 39, (48), 42, 46, 44, 46, 40, 44, 41, 46, 47 = 43.5
Others DNF
Quite near-miss: Daniel Sheppard (DNF), 27, 33, 33, 32, 29, 28, (26), 27, DNF, 31, 27 = DNF.
Come on! You should achieve Sub 30 avg, if you get 32 or lower next! 

NB: You can see the rank of "mean of 3" on WCA: Missing Averages->333fm.


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## Brest (Jan 27, 2013)

Oh nice stats!



okayama said:


> Quite near-miss: Daniel Sheppard (DNF), 27, 33, 33, 32, 29, 28, (26), 27, DNF, 31, 27 = DNF.
> Come on! You should achieve Sub 30 avg, if you get 32 or lower next!



Dan got a 27 at Edinburgh Open this weekend.


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## guusrs (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi folks,

I had a nice corners-first solve on Per's FMC 434 1 hour/unlimited (fmc.mustcube.net)
scramble: B' F' R B D2 U' L' R B U2 L R B F2 U2 L2 D' B2 U L' D' B' F' U R2 U F R2 U' L' 
my solve: D' B F' R B' F D' B' U2 R' D L2 R2 B2 U R L' B' D2 B' L2 R' F L' R U' L' R U L' (30)

explanation:
on inverse scramble: 
all corners and 4 edges: L U' @ R L' U2 B D (7)
another 2 edges: F' B R' F B' D (13)
another 2 edges: at @ insert: R' L U R' L F' R2 & L2 (19)
last 4 edges: at & insert: R2 L2 B D2 B L R' U' B2 R2 L2 D' R L' (30)

Can anyone do better than my poor 23 moves on last 8 edges?


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## Sebastien (Jan 28, 2013)

Well, edges are always very tricky. I think you found a very nice solution already. 

The insertion finder provides this after lots of calcuation time:

4 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
L U' [@1] R L' U2 B D
Insert at @1: B R' L U' R' U R L' B' R
After the 1st insertion: L U' B R' L [@2] U' R' U R L' B' R2 L' U2 B D
Insert at @2: R' L F2 R L' U2
After the 2nd insertion: L U' B R2 L2 F2 [@3] R L' U R' U R L' B' R2 L' U2 B D
Insert at @3: F L2 F' R L' U L2 U' R' L
After the 3rd insertion: L U' B R2 L2 F' L2 F' R L' U L2 R' U [@4] R L' B' R2 L' U2 B D
Insert at @4: U' R2 L2 D L' D' R2 L2 U L
Fewest moves: 25. 18 moves cancelled
The final solution: L U' B R2 L2 F' L2 F' R L' U R D L' D' R2 L2 U R B' R2 L' U2 B D
Runtime: 405819 milliseconds


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## kinch2002 (Jan 29, 2013)

Edinburgh Open 2013: L D' R B' R F2 U' L U' B R2 F2 U' F2 B2 U2 F2 R2 D'

I used Inverse scramble: D R2 F2 U2 B2 F2 U F2 R2 B' U L' U F2 R' B R' D L'
2x2x2: D' B2 R' L2 B' (5)
Pseudo 2x2x3: D2 L' D2 F2 (9)
F2L-1: D L2 D' (12)
Solve Edges and correct pseudo: D' L D F L (16)
5 corners left, so double insertion for a *27 move solution*.
I did the whole solution in ~25 minutes including a 1-pass double insertion 

Still need one more result to get an avg12.


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## hcfong (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm a complete FMC noob but I'd like to get better at it, so at Edinburgh Open, I gave it a go. I didn't get a result, but I'd like to see how you guys would have continued..

Scramble is of course the same as Dan's: L D' R B' R F2 U' L U' B R2 F2 U' F2 B2 U2 F2 R2 D'

I quickly found a 2x2x2 block in 5 moves: F' R' F' U' R
Then the best thing I could find was: D' R' B' R B D B' R' B' R B2 to get a 2x2x3 block. 
I didn't think 16 moves to get a 2x2x3 block would lead to anything decent, so tried inverse scramble with R' U F R F as pre-moves. At that time, I didn't see anything, so went back to the normal scramble and quickly gave up.

At home I tried again with the inverse scramble, again with F' U F R F as premoves.

Now I found B L B' L2 D2 to get a 2x2x3 block. That sounds a lot better to me.


But from here on, I don't really know what I should do. I came up with L D L' D' B' D' B D' , but that will bring me on 18 moves and I'm not sure if that's good enough. After this, the only thing I can come up with is to complete the final F2L pair and do the last layer a la CFOP, which is probably not the most effective way, so....

What would you have done differently from what I've done and how would you have continued from either the state after the 2x2x3 block (10 moves) and/or after the 18 moves?

Thanks.


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## Jakube (Jan 30, 2013)

I just got a really weird solution for a german online competition. 



Spoiler: Warning! Competition still ongoing



2. Scramble: F2 D2 B2 U2 R B2 F2 D2 R2 B' U B2 F' D F2 L U B2 R U'

After 14 Moves I'm left with blocks. 

Inverse: 
2x2x1: L F (2/2)
Normal: 
2x2x2: L' U (2/4)
Inverse: 
xx-Cross + 2 F2L-Pairs: D B R' B2 D' B2 (6/10)
F2L-1: D' L' D L (4/14)
3-Pairs-Cycle: L D2 R' # D R D2 L' (7-1/20)
Insertion at # (3-Pairs-Cycle): L R D2 L' D' L D2 R' D L' (10-2/28)
(IF says optimal insertions)

Solution: L' U L D2 R' D' L D' R D2 L' D L D2 L' D2 L2 D' L D B2 D B2 R B' D' F' L' (28 Moves)


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## Attila (Feb 1, 2013)

guusrs said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I had a nice corners-first solve on Per's FMC 434 1 hour/unlimited (fmc.mustcube.net)
> scramble: B' F' R B D2 U' L' R B U2 L R B F2 U2 L2 D' B2 U L' D' B' F' U R2 U F R2 U' L'
> ...


Hi Guus,
I found a few nice solution:
1.
D’ B’ U2 R’ L U’ F U2 D2 B’ U2 R2 D L U2 D2 R D2 R2 U’ D’ B2 U L 24 moves
premoves:L
D’ orient corners, and 2 edges, 
B’ U2 R’ L all corners -2 moves, and 3 edges,
U’ F U2 D2 B’ more 1 edge,
U2 R2 D L U2 D2 R’ L6E,
R2 D2 R2 U’ D’ B2 U 4 edges swap.

2. D’ B’ U2 R’ L U’ F U2 D2 B’ U2 D L’ U2 D2 R D’ L2 B2 D2 B2 D2 B2 D2 L 25 moves
D’ B’ U2 R’ L U’ F U2 D2 B’ U2 same as my first solution,
D L’ U2 D2 R D’ L’ leave 4 edges, after 18 moves.
Annoying, but i could not find a better insertion…
3. D’ F’ L2 F’ B R L’ D F2 D’ L’ B’ F U L B F2 D’ R’ B F’ U R B F2 L’ 26 moves
premoves: L’ 
D’ orient corners,
F’ L2 F’ B R L’ D all corners and 3 edges,
F2 D’ L’ B’ F U L more 2 edges,
B F2 D’ R’ B F’ U R B F2 L7E, a bit lucky.


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## Sebastien (Feb 17, 2013)

Scrambles from Velbert Open 2013 and my solutions, resulting in a 26.33 Mean of 3:

Scramble #1: R2 D' R' U F' B' L' F' R L D2 B' U2 B R2 F' U2 D2 F

Solution:


Spoiler



Lots of Blocks on normal scramble: L U F2 D B' L R B2 R2 B'
switch and F2L: U L' U' D' R F R' F' D
ZBLL: D' F D F2 U' D' F D F' U F2

Solution: L U F2 D B' L R B2 R2 B' F2 U' F D' F' D U F2 D' R F' R' D U L U'

26 moves.



Scramble #2: D2 L2 F U F2 B R' B U2 L2 F' U' F2 R2 U' L2 F2 L2 B2

Solution:


Spoiler



Everything but 5 corners (3 insertions needed)：U L' F R2 F2 L' B' L2 * U' L' U B R B R'

Insert at *: R U' L' U R' U' L U

After the 1st insertion: U L' F R2 F2 L' B' L2 R U' L' U R' B * R B R'

Insert at *: F' R B R' F R B' R'

After the 2nd insertion: U L' F R2 F2 L' B' L2 R U' L' U R' B F' R * B R' F

Insert at *: D' F' D B2 D' F D B2

Solution: U L' F R2 F2 L' B' L2 R U' L' U R' B F' R D' F' D B2 D' F D B' R' F

26 moves.

I found those insertions within 10 minutes. The insertion finder confirmed me afterwards that the insertions were optimal and actually gave me the exact same insertions. 



Scramble #3: L2 R2 D2 R2 B2 U' R2 F2 R2 F' D' L' U L' R F2 D' R2 U2

Solution:


Spoiler



F2L-1 on Inverse: D' F2 U' F' L' * U' D L' D2 L2 D' L' D F
L3C: B' D L D L' D' B D2

Insert at *: L U L' D2 L U' L' D2

Solution: D2 B' D L D' L' D' B F' D' L D L2 D2 L U D L U L' D2 L U' F U F2 D

27 moves.

Again optimal insertion. 




Edit: Tomoaki encurraged me to add my current official average of 12: 

29, 27, (25), (DNF), 30, 27, 31, 28, 32, 26, 26, 27 = 28,3


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## okayama (Feb 24, 2013)

About FMC438
Scramble: B2 R2 L2 F D L2 B2 L' U2 B2 F' L B D' L2 F' B U2 B2 L' R D' B' F2 L D2 F R2 D' B2

There is an obvious start for block-building (9-move F2L minus 1 slot with 1-move premove),
but I couldn't find any decent continuation giving Sub 25.
Well done Fred (and Attila)!

Here is my another, kind of straightforward solution (just for my records I post it).
Solution: F' D2 U' F R D2 B' R' B U' B' D B U B2 D' R' D R B' R' B U' B2 U B' D2 (27 moves)


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: D2

2x2x2 block: F' D2 U' F
More 1x2x3 block: R D2 B'
More c/e pair: R' * D B' D'
F2L minus 1 slot: R' D
Orient edges: R B' R'
All but 3 corners: B U' B2 U B'
Correction: D2

Insert at *: B U' B' D B U B' D'


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## guusrs (Feb 24, 2013)

[email protected], I missed that obvious start. 9 moves F2L-1 but after that it doesn't "feel" good. 22 moves for 3 corners I can get, same as you did. Or 18 moves for 5 corners, which isn't much better. 
good luck on netx scramble!


okayama said:


> About FMC438
> Scramble: B2 R2 L2 F D L2 B2 L' U2 B2 F' L B D' L2 F' B U2 B2 L' R D' B' F2 L D2 F R2 D' B2
> 
> There is an obvious start for block-building (9-move F2L minus 1 slot with 1-move premove),
> ...


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## cuBerBruce (Feb 25, 2013)

okayama said:


> About FMC438
> Scramble: B2 R2 L2 F D L2 B2 L' U2 B2 F' L B D' L2 F' B U2 B2 L' R D' B' F2 L D2 F R2 D' B2
> 
> There is an obvious start for block-building (9-move F2L minus 1 slot with 1-move premove),
> but I couldn't find any decent continuation giving Sub 25.





guusrs said:


> [email protected], I missed that obvious start. 9 moves F2L-1 but after that it doesn't "feel" good. 22 moves for 3 corners I can get, same as you did. Or 18 moves for 5 corners, which isn't much better.



I get 18 moves leaving 4 corners. Insertion Finder gives 27-move solution with two 3-cycle insertions.


Spoiler



Use premove: D2
Pre-scramble: D2

2x2x2 block: F' * D2 U' F (4/4)
More 1x2x3 block: R D2 B' (3/7)
F2L minus 1 slot: R2 D (2/9)
Edges: B' U' ** B L' B2 L U B2 (8/17) (leaves 4 corners)
Premove correction: D2 (18)

From Insertion Finder:
Insert at *: B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U
Insert at **: R' B L' B' R B L B'

Final solution: 27 moves


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## kinch2002 (Feb 25, 2013)

I got a 28 at Leicester Open this weekend. Like my 27 in Edinburgh a month ago, this was a fairly straightfoward solution again. When I say straightforward, I'm comparing it to some of the crazy complicated solutions I've done officially before.
27, 33, 33, 32, 29, 28, (26), 27, (DNF), 31, 27, 28 = *29.5 avg12* 

I'll post the scramble/solution tomorrow probably

EDIT: OK I'm still awake so posting it now
Scramble: R' L' F U R2 D' F2 U F D2 L' D2 R2 D2 R2 F2 R2 U B2 D
Solution: F U' B F2 R' D' B' D2 L2 B' D B L U B U' B L2 D F' D' B' D F D' L' B2 L2 (28)
2x2x2: F U' B F2 R'
2x2x3: D' B' D2 L2 B' D (the B' is inserted to orient 2 more edges and create a pair)
Switch to inverse with premoves D' B L2 D2 B D R F2 B' U F'
F2L+EO leaving 3 corners: L2 B2 L B L2 B' U B' U' L' B' (the U B' U' is there for the EO)
Skeleton: F U' B F2 R' D' B' D2 L2 B' D B L U B U' B L2* B' L' B2 L2 (22)
Insert D F' D' B' D F D' B at * to cancel 2 moves
22+8-2 = 28 moves


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## Sebastien (Mar 1, 2013)

Awesome, welcome to the club! 

And good luck for rolling!


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## Sebastien (Mar 3, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> 29, 27, (25), (DNF), 30, 27, 31, 28, 32, 26, 26, 27 = 28,3




Got 27 twice at Zonhoven Open today.

(25), (DNF), 30, 27, 31, 28, 32, 26, 26, 27, 27, 27 = 28,1 official Average of 12


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## kinch2002 (Mar 3, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Got 27 twice at Zonhoven Open today.
> 
> (25), (DNF), 30, 27, 31, 28, 32, 26, 26, 27, 27, 27 = 28,1 official Average of 12


26.7 avg5 is just wow


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## kinch2002 (Mar 3, 2013)

Did 3 quick attempts (1 hour 15 total) just now with results of 27,27,23.
I used Insertion finder on the 2nd one but w/e.
Here are the solutions because more example solves is always a good thing!

[18:57] <kinch2002> ,3 fm
[18:57] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #24609: B2 L2 R' D' R L2 F' R' D R B2 U2 B R2 F D2 B' F' D2 L' F2 L' R' B2 U
Premove: D2
2x2x3: R2 U F' U2 L2 U L U _Note the use of U L U instead of U2 to help EO and create a CE pair_
EO: L D L' D'
Leave 3 corners: L2 B L B2 L B' L' B
Skeleton: R2 U F' U2 L2 U L U L D L' D' L2 B L B2 *L B' L' B D2 (21)
Insert B R B'L2 B R' B' L2 at * to cancel 2 moves
21+8-2=*27 moves*


[19:17] <kinch2002> ,3 fm
[19:17] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #24610: L' B2 F' R' F L U B2 F2 L B' D R2 U2 R F' U F2 L2 D L' R F' D' L'
Inverse scramble with premove: U'
2x2x2: L D2 R' D R
2x2x3: L U L2 U2
Leave 4 corners: B' L U' L U L D L D'
Insertion Finder said *27 moves*


[19:46] <kinch2002> ,3 fm
[19:46] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #24611: B' U2 D2 F2 L B2 D2 U L U L B' D' U2 F2 B' D2 R D' U' R2 U B U2 D'
2x2x2: F2 R2 * U' R' B'
2x2x3+square: U2 F L' F' _Pairs everywhere after 2x2x2!_
Leave 3 corners: U2 L2 B L B' L' U
Skeleton: F2 R2 * U' R' B' U2 F L' F' U2 L2 B L B' L' U (16)
Insert B2 U F U' B2 U F' U' at * to cancel 1 move
16+8-1=*23 moves*


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## coldsun0630 (Mar 10, 2013)

Is there any good finish from this F2L-1?
LL is always hard on FMC...

Scramble: B D R2 B2 R F2 D R2 L' F U2 R B2 U2 L' B2 L2 F2 L2

- Normal
Premove: U2 R'
2x2x3: D2 B' L U' L2
- Inverse
F2L-1: D' R D2 R' D2


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## okayama (Mar 10, 2013)

About FMC440

Scramble: B L2 U B2 F' R2 L F B' D' B F2 R' B U D' L2 B' L F2 B' D B2 L' R' F R' L2 D2 U' 

I found the following short F2L with NISS:

F2L: D' F' L U D F2 D' F U2 B U2 B D'

but I didn't come up with any good LL/insertion. Anyone?


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## okayama (Mar 10, 2013)

coldsun0630 said:


> Is there any good finish from this F2L-1?
> LL is always hard on FMC...
> 
> Scramble: B D R2 B2 R F2 D R2 L' F U2 R B2 U2 L' B2 L2 F2 L2
> ...



My 5 min attempt.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L2 U L' B D2

2x2x3 block: R U2 (your start)
Orient edges: B F' R F
More square: R B'
All but 3 corners: R2 D2 B' D2 B D' R'
Correction: L2 U L' B D2
Corner 3-cycle: D B' D' F D B D' F'

27 moves in total.


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## Username (Mar 10, 2013)

How do you choose a good pre-move, and how do you know when you should do the inverse scramble?


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## arvind1999 (Mar 10, 2013)

okayama why didn't you change your sign yet?


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## Cubenovice (Mar 10, 2013)

okayama said:


> About FMC440
> 
> Scramble: B L2 U B2 F' R2 L F B' D' B F2 R' B U D' L2 B' L F2 B' D B2 L' R' F R' L2 D2 U'
> 
> ...



Did you try 
F2L: D' F' L U D F2 D' F U2 B U2 B D' 
*L *- leaves 3 corners and a H-perm

Insertion finders gives 27 HTM for this...


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## okayama (Mar 10, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > About FMC440
> ...


I also noticed that. I firstly tried COLL+EPLL approach,
which are a Corner 3-cycle and Z-perm in this case.

But I didn't try those insertions, because I thought that
it didn't give such a short solution. Thanks for sharing. 
(NB: I already got two 27-move solutions)



arvind1999 said:


> okayama why didn't you change your sign yet?


I believe I still cannot improve my signature.
See also my post.


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## mycube (Mar 18, 2013)

hey guys, have you ever seen an optimal insertion for corners with 9 moves? here it is:

L2 F2 U2 B2 U L2 D U2 B2 U' L2 B' R' U' L2 D L' F2 L B L
L' B' L' F2 L D' L2 U R B L2 U B2 U2 D' L2 U' B2 U2 F2 L2

inv:
F‘ L‘ B2 U‘ R‘ B2 D‘ B U2 - 2x2x3 [9/9]
F‘ D2 F - F2L-1 + Pair [3/12]
L‘ F L‘ F‘ L2 D - F2L [6/18]

I was happy to find a sub20 3cycle, what you don't find that often. But on the first try I wasn't able to find even a insertion without cancellation. So I tried to do it with two insertions. But even with a first insertion with 5 move cancellation the secound one was again with just one or two moves. So I used a MGLS to finish the solution in time:
R2 U2 R D2 R‘ U2 R D2 R - 3cycle (MGLS) [9/27]

IF can't find a solution. So I did no bad work. Can anyone try to find a better solution with two insertions? I can't believe that this is the best solution for this skeleton

inverse Solution:
F‘ L‘ B2 U‘ R‘ B2 D‘ B U2 F‘ D2 F L‘ F L‘ F‘ L2 D R2 U2 R D2 R‘ U2 R D2 R

Solution:
R‘ D2 R‘ U2 R D2 R‘ U2 R2 D‘ L2 F L F‘ L F‘ D2 F U2 B‘ D B2 R U B2 L F


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## okayama (Mar 18, 2013)

mycube said:


> hey guys, have you ever seen an optimal insertion for corners with 9 moves? here it is:
> 
> L2 F2 U2 B2 U L2 D U2 B2 U' L2 B' R' U' L2 D L' F2 L B L
> L' B' L' F2 L D' L2 U R B L2 U B2 U2 D' L2 U' B2 U2 F2 L2
> ...


Here is a better solution based on your nice skeleton.

All but 3 corners: D' L2 F L F' L F' D2 F * U2 B' D B2 R U B2 L F
A-perm: F (U' F D2 F' U F D2 F') F'

or Insert at *: F (L2 F R2 F' L2 F R2 F') F'

FYI: The same happened several times (e.g. here and here)
My previous skeleton (link) is quite rare, truely 9-move is needed for a single insertion.

EDIT: (sorry, I didn't try two insertions)


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## Sebastien (Mar 19, 2013)

Hi Tomoaki,

I found these insertions too (and so won a beer from Linus! ). Furthermore I tried 2 insertions with very desperate results. I found ~20 first insertions with >= 4 move cancelation, put the skeletons in the IF each time and never got below 28 moves (or 2 moves cancelation respectively).

Actually I learned a lot by working with that scramble. It was weird trying to solve 3 corners with 2 insertions, hence turning this very linear problem to a rather non-deterministic problem. Furthermore I still can't believe, that none of my first insertion tries gave me a better result as the direct insertion. But thinking more about it it makes sense, that the relative position of the corners to each other doesn't improve so much by switching the skeletons in this way. 

anyway, I'd be happy to try this again on a scramble where a normal insertion provides terrible results only. the gain might be better on a scramble, where you land in lots of 8 move positions but none with a cancelation.


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## mehdi-roshan (Mar 23, 2013)

hi

Scramble: F2 U' R U2 D' L R2 U D' B' L' F' B R2 B' U R F2 B2 R U2 B L R U F L' R U D2 

Invers :U' B F R F2 R2 L' F2 U R L' B F D B D' L D U L B2 U2 R F R U2 L F' U2 R


2X2X3 Block : L' B' [@] L R2 U L R' U L2 //(9/9)
All but 5 corners : F' D' F' D [#] F D F2 D2 F (9/18)
Insert at @ = B' R B L B' R' B L' //(8-3/23)
Insert at # = U' B2 U F2 U' B2 U F2 //(8-1/30)

Final solution :L' B2 R B L B' R' B R2 U L R' U L2 F' D' F' D U' B2 U F2 U' B2 U F' D F2 D2 F (30 HTM)


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## okayama (Mar 23, 2013)

My winning solution in Kansai Open 2013.

Scramble: D' U' L2 B2 L2 F2 D' L' R' B L' U2 L2 D R B2 F' D2 U2
Solution: F U2 F' D' F U2 F' R' B' D B2 D2 U2 L' F2 L' F2 L F2 L' F' D' L D L F2 U R D' (29 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: D' L D L F2 U R D'

1st square: (ready)
2nd square: D' R' B'
3rd square: D B2 D2 U2
F2L minus 1 slot: L2
All but 3 corners: L F2 L' F2 L F2 L' F'
Correction: D' L D L F2 U R D'

Insert at the beginning: F U2 F' D' F U2 F' D

Seems a nice scramble, but I couldn't find any better solution in time.



Hideki Niina (2nd place) showed me his quite a short start for F2L minus 1 slot,
so if you're interested go ahead to continue:


Spoiler



1st square: U2 F2 U
c/e pair: L'
2x2x3 block: R' B R2
F2L minus 1 slot: L D2 L


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## elrog (Mar 23, 2013)

Could anyone tell me what exactly the point of premoves is? Why do some moves before you scramble just to undo them afterwards?


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## Attila (Mar 23, 2013)

My have a question.
I found a 24-move solution for Kansai Open scramble:


Spoiler



Scramble: D' U' L2 B2 L2 F2 D' L' R' B L' U2 L2 D R B2 F' D2 U2
Solution: U2 D2 F2 D L2 U R' U2 R B L R' U' B2 L2 R2 F' R L' U' L R2 D2 R
Explanation: 
U2 D2 2nd c-e pair,
F2 D L2 U orient corners and 4 edges,
R' U2 R all corners - 2 moves,
B L R' U' more 2 edges, 
B2 L2 R2 F' R L' U' L R2 D2 R L6E.
Lucky solution for me, i found in 25 mins.


Although this was not my intention, the first 3 moves of solution,
and the last moves of scramble similar.
This solution is acceptable or not?


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## Noahaha (Mar 23, 2013)

Attila said:


> My have a question.
> I found a 24-move solution for Kansai Open scramble:
> 
> 
> ...



Of course, as long as you can explain why you made those moves.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 23, 2013)

elrog said:


> Could anyone tell me what exactly the point of premoves is? Why do some moves before you scramble just to undo them afterwards?



http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=784498&viewfull=1#post784498


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## elrog (Mar 23, 2013)

That gives me the impression that you get to see the scramble before you choose a premove? Heck the FMC rules really are screwy.

EDIT: In my opinion, you shouldn't be allowed to see the scramble, or/and the scramble should be excessively long to keep people from using its inverse or being accused of it when they were not trying to.


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## mehdi-roshan (Mar 24, 2013)

Scramble: R2 D U2 B2 F' U2 R' L2 B' U D2 L2 R2 D2 B2 U2 D' L R' U' L' B' F' L' R' U' B F2 L' B2 

1X2X3 block : L2 F D'B' D F' U2 R' //(8/8)
F2L minus 1 slot : U B L [#] B' L' B U //(7/15)
All but 3 corners : D2 L D L' F' D' F D' F' D' F //(11/26)
Insert at # = L' F L B' L' F' L B //(8-6/28) ===> cancelling 6 move !!!!!!!

Final solution: L2 F D'B' D F' U2 R' U B F L B' L' F' B U D2 L D L' F' D' F D' F' D' F (28 HTM)


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## okayama (Mar 24, 2013)

mehdi-roshan said:


> Scramble: R2 D U2 B2 F' U2 R' L2 B' U D2 L2 R2 D2 B2 U2 D' L R' U' L' B' F' L' R' U' B F2 L' B2
> 
> 1X2X3 block : L2 F D'B' D F' U2 R' //(8/8)
> F2L minus 1 slot : U B L [#] B' L' B U //(7/15)
> ...



Nice to see your recent attempts in fmc.mustcube.net.
Do you know there is a weekly competition in this forum? (cf. this week)
Try it if you're interested. 

I noticed that your solution above was posted for FMC442/speed,
but you are not allowed to search an insertion. See FMC rules for `Speed challenge'.
There are several important rules for speed that are quite different from 1-hour/classic.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 24, 2013)

elrog said:


> That gives me the impression that you get to see the scramble before you choose a premove? Heck the FMC rules really are screwy.
> 
> EDIT: In my opinion, you shouldn't be allowed to see the scramble, or/and the scramble should be excessively long to keep people from using its inverse or being accused of it when they were not trying to.



In a competition you get the scramble and then can use up to three cubes (and stickers) to find the shortest solution withing one hour.
Scramble length is really not an issue.
If you have some starting moves in common with the inverse scramble you typically have a good reason for it: for instance to make a pair or a square.
If you would check the inverse scramble further you will find that this pair or square is never intact through the full scramble.


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## elrog (Mar 25, 2013)

Having a long scramble or not seeing the scramble is still needed to prevent people from using it. Using the NISS method isn't really solving the cube in as few moves as possible by human intellect.


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## The Supreme One (Mar 25, 2013)

IIRC, they are actually given a cube, and are told exactly what the scramble was


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## kinch2002 (Mar 25, 2013)

elrog said:


> Using the NISS method isn't really solving the cube in as few moves as possible by human intellect.


I don't see why it isn't. The aim is to find the shortest solution to the scramble. You sound as if you think linear FM should be the only way allowed.


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## MarcelP (Mar 25, 2013)

For reversing a scramble I often make mistakes in writing down the correct reversed scramble. So I made a tool for me that can do the reverse scramble in my last layer trainer:



Spoiler

















In my signature you will find the page.


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## mycube (Mar 25, 2013)

if you train writing down your reverse scramble you don't do this mistakes so often. so better train it than using a tool for this.

besides you are not allowed to use this tool for FMC.


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## kinch2002 (Mar 25, 2013)

With regards to accuracy, if you can't write it down backwards correctly, then you probably can't read it backwards correctly either, so it doesn't matter which one you do.
With regards to time, I find the time it takes to write down the inverse is longer than any extra time spent reading it backwards every time (nothing in my case), so I never write it down any more.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 25, 2013)

elrog said:


> Having a long scramble or not seeing the scramble is still needed to prevent people from using it.


Please explain?



elrog said:


> Using the NISS method isn't really solving the cube in as few moves as possible by human intellect.


Please explain?
Unless you mean the delegate should read out a scramble and the competitors would have to dictate a solution within the hour.
Sans cube, sans paper, sans pen...




The Supreme One said:


> IIRC, they are actually given a cube, and are told exactly what the scramble was


No, you get a scramble, pen and paper.
You can use up to three cubes to intellectually fool around with.





MarcelP said:


> For reversing a scramble I often make mistakes in writing down the correct reversed scramble. So I made a tool for me that can do the reverse scramble in my last layer trainer:



Well done but please note that you cannot use this for the online competitions 

BTW: here's the almost ultimate alg translator: http://cube.crider.co.uk/algtrans.html

The ultimate translator is obviously your intellect


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## elrog (Mar 25, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> Please explain?
> Unless you mean the delegate should read out a scramble and the competitors would have to dictate a solution within the hour.
> Sans cube, sans paper, sans pen...



I really don't know why you even need an explanation, but here you go. I said that the NISS method wasn't solving in as few moves as possible *by human intellect*. By coming up with a solution that uses the inverse of the scramble, you are not showing intellegence in that you came up with that short of a solution. You simply played with it enouhg until you changed it enough not to count as the inverse scramble, yet be the inverse scramble.



kinch2002 said:


> I don't see why it isn't. The aim is to find the shortest solution to the scramble. You sound as if you think linear FM should be the only way allowed.



Yes, I think it should be linear. This is already made up for because you have 3 cubes. If it is not linear, you would only need one cube.

The scramble should not even be a part of FMC. It should be based off of how few moves you can solve the cube from a particular position. Giving a short scramble to get to the position is just making it that much easier to come up with a short solution.

I think FMC should go like this: Every competitor is given a particular position on their cube. Each competitor would try to find the shortest solution they they can for that position withing a designated time limit (an hour is fine with me, but any longer would end up with everyone having a similar solution). Whoever can find the shortest soltion to that particular position in the time limit wins. This would allow for the competitors to use as many cubes as they need or go back to the original position as many times as they'd like.


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## Ollie (Mar 26, 2013)

elrog said:


> I really don't know why you even need an explanation, but here you go. I said that the NISS method wasn't solving in as few moves as possible *by human intellect*. By coming up with a solution that uses the inverse of the scramble, you are not showing intellegence in that you came up with that short of a solution. You simply played with it enouhg until you changed it enough not to count as the inverse scramble, yet be the inverse scramble.



If this were true then you've just completely devalued the current WR FMC solution which indeed uses NISS. For someone to be able to find a 20-move solution (which I believe was optimal for the scramble given) is a monumental achievement however you look at it.


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## kinch2002 (Mar 26, 2013)

You really need to learn much more about FM before you try to comment on it again.


elrog said:


> I really don't know why you even need an explanation, but here you go. I said that the NISS method wasn't solving in as few moves as possible *by human intellect*. By coming up with a solution that uses the inverse of the scramble, you are not showing intellegence in that you came up with that short of a solution. You simply played with it enouhg until you changed it enough not to count as the inverse scramble, yet be the inverse scramble.


Nobody just takes the inverse and tweaks it a bit before declaring it. Please learn more about how to use NISS.


elrog said:


> Yes, I think it should be linear. This is already made up for because you have 3 cubes. If it is not linear, you would only need one cube.


Agreed that 3 cubes isn't really needed. Linear with 3 cubes makes so much less sense though


elrog said:


> The scramble should not even be a part of FMC. It should be based off of how few moves you can solve the cube from a particular position. Giving a short scramble to get to the position is just making it that much easier to come up with a short solution.


You aren't allowed to base your solution off the scramble. Having a short scramble therefore does not make any difference, apart from that it is quicker to scramble into the required position.


elrog said:


> I think FMC should go like this:


It seems like you've never even tried FM before


elrog said:


> Every competitor is given a particular position on their cube. Each competitor would try to find the shortest solution they they can for that position withing a designated time limit (an hour is fine with me, but any longer would end up with everyone having a similar solution). Whoever can find the shortest soltion to that particular position in the time limit wins. This would allow for the competitors to use as many cubes as they need or go back to the original position as many times as they'd like.


How can they go back to the original position without being given the scramble, unless you now want everyone to memorise the scramble at the start? Other than that, you just described the current rules of FM.


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## elrog (Mar 26, 2013)

I beleive he solved it in 20 moves while the scramble was 18 moves? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have tried FMC before (not in a competition). My lowest move count that I've gotten is 30.

You could start with many cubes in the scrambled position so that you don't have to memorize the scramble to go back to it all the time. You also wouldn't have to memorize it if you were given it.

Yes, prehaps I need to learn more about NISS before I go any further. This might somehow explain how your not allowed to base your solution off the scramble, though you need the scramble and its inverse? Things aren't adding up. If the scramble effects your solutiong, your solution was based off the scramble.


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## Ollie (Mar 26, 2013)

elrog said:


> I beleive he solved it in 20 moves while the scramble was 18 moves? Correct me if I'm wrong.



Correct, I was under the impression that scrambles were a minimum of 20 moves in HTM. Alas, it does not take away from the skill required to be able to calculate a 20 move solution in under an hour, since if you "played with it enough until you changed it enough" without applying any form of tactics or problem-solving then you are extremely unlikely to find a low solution such as this by chance.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 26, 2013)

elrog said:


> I really don't know why you even need an explanation, but here you go. I said that the NISS method wasn't solving in as few moves as possible *by human intellect*. By coming up with a solution that uses the inverse of the scramble, you are not showing intellegence in that you came up with that short of a solution. You simply played with it enouhg until you changed it enough not to count as the inverse scramble, yet be the inverse scramble.



You should really try to understand NISS first before making false statements about it.

Consider this: not providing a scramble does not prevent people from using NISS.
-	Get scrambled cube
-	Write down your 60 move speedsolving solution
-	Voila: there is your inverse scramble.
Maybe the best argument against your misinterpretation of NISS is that this “60 move long inverse scramble” would give exactly the same NISS results as an optimal 18 move inverse scramble.
Once you understand why this is the case we can discuss NISS in more detail.


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## elrog (Mar 27, 2013)

Even if you would get the same solution, I'd bet it would be easier with a shorter scramble. Therefor, you should still have to figure out a solution yourself on one cube, then use that cubes solution with NISS to find a shorter one. It would then actually become useful to be able to get short solutions without using NISS, because you need it for the first solve.

EDIT: Would you not find the 18 move optimal scramble if you were given the 60 move one? I know that because you are given the optimal solution for FMC, you are not allowed to use the optimal solution if you can find it. This in itself is a reason not to use the optimal scramble.


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## Julian (Mar 27, 2013)

elrog said:


> I know that because you are given the optimal solution for FMC, you are not allowed to use the optimal solution if you can find it. This in itself is a reason not to use the optimal scramble.


1. You are not necessarily given the optimal scramble for FMC.
2. There is often more than 1 optimal solution for a given scramble.


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## kinch2002 (Mar 27, 2013)

elrog said:


> Even if you would get the same solution, I'd bet it would be easier with a shorter scramble. Therefor, you should still have to figure out a solution yourself on one cube, then use that cubes solution with NISS to find a shorter one. It would then actually become useful to be able to get short solutions without using NISS, because you need it for the first solve.
> 
> EDIT: Would you not find the 18 move optimal scramble if you were given the 60 move one? I know that because you are given the optimal solution for FMC, you are not allowed to use the optimal solution if you can find it. This in itself is a reason not to use the optimal scramble.


You still make no sense to me. Do you actually undertstand how to use NISS? Have you ever used it? It doesn't sound like it
Most scrambles in comp are not optimal, but that's irrelevant. The length of the scramble that you are given does not affect the solution in any way, apart from that it doesn't take you so long to scramble. By not providing the scramble, you're saying that we should all waste our time at the start writing down a random solution so that we can invert it. How is that a measure of human intelligence? You just forced everyone to waste the first 5 minutes of their time.


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## elrog (Mar 28, 2013)

I get your points Julian, but from what cubenovice posted, it seemed that because you will always find the same solution for the same position with a different scramble, that you would find the optimal solution because it is a solution to the scramble.

@ Kinch: I really can't understand what you don't understand. I write in clear English. THE POEPLE WHO ARE INTELLEGENT ENOUGH TO FIND A SHORT SOLUTION QUICKLY WILL GET DONE QUICKER BECAUSE OF USING NISS ON A SHORTER INVERSE SCRAMBLE. How is that not using human intellegence? Most people will get done within an hour anyway, but you could always lower the time limit to 30 minutes to make people use intellegence in all aspects of cubing rather than just NISS.


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## kinch2002 (Mar 28, 2013)

elrog said:


> @ Kinch: I really can't understand what you don't understand. I write in clear English. THE POEPLE WHO ARE INTELLEGENT ENOUGH TO FIND A SHORT SOLUTION QUICKLY WILL GET DONE QUICKER BECAUSE OF USING NISS ON A SHORTER INVERSE SCRAMBLE. How is that not using human intellegence? Most people will get done within an hour anyway, but you could always lower the time limit to 30 minutes to make people use intellegence in all aspects of cubing rather than just NISS.


I agree, that is using human intelligence. But I still see no reason to add this part to the event. What if someone writes their solution down incorrectly the first time and then can't do anything for the rest of the hour because they no longer have the scramble? What if you are given an incorrect scramble? You wouldn't know until someone checks your result!

How is lowering to 30 minutes forcing people to use intelligence in all aspects rather than just NISS? Not everyone just spams NISS every single time. Good luck using that as your only technique. FM is not currently a measure of how well you can use NISS.


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## Cubenovice (Mar 28, 2013)

elrog said:


> but from what cubenovice posted, it seemed that because you will always find the same solution for the same position with a different scramble


One specific person would indeed find the same solution because you are not solving “the scramble” you are solving “a specific state of the cube”. This specific state can be created by an unlimited number of scrambles. The scramble provided by the WCA delegate or (in case you did not receive a scramble to start with) an inversed speedsolve solution.



elrog said:


> , but from what cubenovice posted, it seemed that because you will always find the same solution for the same position with a different scramble, that you would find the optimal solution because it is a solution to the scramble.


I did not mean that everyone would find the same solution for the same state, let alone that everyone would end up with the optimal solution.
It is very rare that people find the exact same solution but it has happened before. My “record” is having the first 14 moves in common with someone else in the fmc.mustcube competition.
This is a result of using the same blockbuilding approach and the specific opportunities in the scramble.
An optimal solution is very unlikely to ever be found because, as opposed to human solutions, optimal solutions do not involve blockbuilding or “having to preserve already solved parts”.




elrog said:


> I write in clear English. THE POEPLE WHO ARE INTELLEGENT ENOUGH TO FIND A SHORT SOLUTION QUICKLY WILL GET DONE QUICKER BECAUSE OF USING NISS ON A SHORTER INVERSE SCRAMBLE. How is that not using human intellegence? Most people will get done within an hour anyway, but you could always lower the time limit to 30 minutes to make people use intellegence in all aspects of cubing rather than just NISS.



You still do not get NISS do you?
You seem to associate NISS with copying part of the (inverse) scramble into your solution: it is not.
Using NISS just gives you a “different” cube state to work with.
You should really try it or analyze some NISs solves; there are many examples in this thread.

For instance: take two solved cubes and on the first use the normal scramble, on the second apply the inverse scramble.
Now you have two cubes that look quite different. You can scan both for nice block building opportunities.
I would say this is a very clever way of increasing you chances of finding a good solution.
Now take a closer look: you will find some similarities in the two cubes.


In your CAPS part you are pulling two unrelated things together : shorter scrambles and NISS

Keeping all other things equal:
-	Shorter scrambles, regardless of normal or inverse will indeed help you get done quicker (less scrambling time)
-	Using NISS will slow you down ( you need to solve /scramble the cube more often + extra time needed to convert your moves found in NISS mode)
-	Using NISS requires more thinking / focus / cube understanding than solving without NISS. There may be a link to human intellect here?
-	Using NISS is no guarantee for a better result




elrog said:


> THE POEPLE WHO ARE INTELLEGENT ENOUGH TO FIND A SHORT SOLUTION QUICKLY WILL GET DONE QUICKER BECAUSE OF USING NISS ON A SHORTER INVERSE SCRAMBLE. How is that not using human intellegence.


LOL, now you are saying that using NISS *is* using human intelligence.
I thought your whole point of this discussion was to prove the exact opposite?

Seriously though: try a couple of solves involving NISS (better yet, post them here) and then let us know how you feel about the method.


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## elrog (Mar 29, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> I did not mean that everyone would find the same solution for the same state, let alone that everyone would end up with the optimal solution.
> It is very rare that people find the exact same solution but it has happened before. My “record” is having the first 14 moves in common with someone else in the fmc.mustcube competition.
> This is a result of using the same blockbuilding approach and the specific opportunities in the scramble.
> An optimal solution is very unlikely to ever be found because, as opposed to human solutions, optimal solutions do not involve blockbuilding or “having to preserve already solved parts”.
> ...



I have always thought NISS was just using the inverse scramble and finding moves that are not needed and cancelling them leaving you with only the core of the solution. Thus, it would make sense that you could get a solution so different that it has a different core.

I also wasn't refering to NISS when I said it is human intellegence.. I didn't say that NISS wasn't, but I didn't say it was. Now, I will say that yes it takes a small amount of intellegence to do most anything. If one were not intellegent enough, they could not even decipher notation.

I will go analyze some NISS solves and see how it works and get back to you about how much intellegence I think it uses. I've actually learned quite a bit from you guys explaining my misconceptions. Thanks.


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## mark49152 (Mar 29, 2013)

elrog said:


> I will go analyze some NISS solves and see how it works and get back to you about how much intellegence I think it uses.


It took some intelligence to come up with the idea, but isn't using NISS just a case of doing two solves and choosing the shortest solution? Why would that take more intelligence than doing one solve? Inverting sequences is easy enough.


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## cuBerBruce (Mar 29, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> It took some intelligence to come up with the idea, but isn't using NISS just a case of doing two solves and choosing the shortest solution? Why would that take more intelligence than doing one solve? Inverting sequences is easy enough.



No, that's not what NISS is.


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## mark49152 (Mar 29, 2013)

cuBerBruce said:


> No, that's not what NISS is.


Right, I was confusing it with just solvng the inverse scramble. Sorry.


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## jayefbe (Mar 29, 2013)

elrog said:


> I have always thought NISS was just using the inverse scramble and finding moves that are not needed and cancelling them leaving you with only the core of the solution. Thus, it would make sense that you could get a solution so different that it has a different core.



Obviously that's not how it works (after 5 days and multiple people saying so). The rules of the event are in place to specifically keep solves from simply being the inverse scramble.


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## Noahaha (Mar 29, 2013)

elrog said:


> I also wasn't refering to NISS when I said it is human intellegence.. I didn't say that NISS wasn't, but I didn't say it was. Now, I will say that yes it takes a small amount of intellegence to do most anything. If one were not intellegent enough, they could not even decipher notation.
> 
> I will go analyze some NISS solves and see how it works and get back to you about how much intellegence I think it uses. I've actually learned quite a bit from you guys explaining my misconceptions. Thanks.



Dude. Just what? I mean, seriously??? You are trying to figure out if the best FMC method requires INTELLIGENCE?

Unbelievable.



Spoiler



THE SCRAMBLE IS NOT USED IN THE SOLUTION.



EDIT: I'm going to explain how most people go about their FMC solves because it's clear you don't know how...

Step 1: Scramble the cube and try to use blockbuilding to solve as much of the cube as possible. Repeat until you find the most efficient solution that solves the most pieces.

Step 2: use insertions to solve the remaining pieces.

Step 3: repeat 1 and 2 on the inverse scramble

Where is intelligence NOT used??? 

Finding an efficient skeleton (step 1) requires Cleverness, skill and intelligence for sure. 

Finding good cancellations for your insertions also requires a lot of skill.

There you go.


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## elrog (Mar 29, 2013)

Noahaha said:


> Step 1: Scramble the cube and try to use blockbuilding to solve as much of the cube as possible. Repeat until you find the most efficient solution that solves the most pieces.
> 
> Step 2: use insertions to solve the remaining pieces.
> 
> Step 3: repeat 1 and 2 on the inverse scramble



Have you not just described the normal way of solving a cube in less moves without the use of NISS? If all NISS is is solving the inverse of the scramble, it basically just a strategy to see if you can get a better situation to solve that will also work on the scrambled cube. If this is the case, the way everyone describes it is very misleading.


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## Noahaha (Mar 29, 2013)

elrog said:


> Have you not just described the normal way of solving a cube in less moves without the use of NISS? If all NISS is is solving the inverse of the scramble, it basically just a strategy to see if you can get a better situation to solve that will also work on the scrambled cube. If this is the case, the way everyone describes it is very misleading.



www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Fewest_Moves_techniques


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## cuBerBruce (Mar 29, 2013)

elrog said:


> Have you not just described the normal way of solving a cube in less moves without the use of NISS?


Right, in that Noah's steps 1, 2, and 3 made no mention whatever of using premoves, let alone NISS. NISS inherently makes use of the concept of premoves.



elrog said:


> If all NISS is is solving the inverse of the scramble, ...


And as I said before, it's not.

Trying to solve the inverse scramble instead of the normal scramble is a general FMC technique that was well known long before the concept of NISS was became well known.


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## okayama (Apr 2, 2013)

okayama said:


> mycube said:
> 
> 
> > hey guys, have you ever seen an optimal insertion for corners with 9 moves? here it is:
> ...


I encountered an unlucky skeleton that needs a 9-move insertion again. 
Scramble: U R2 U B2 U B2 F2 U2 R2 U' L2 B L2 U F2 D2 R' F2 R2 F' (Weekly competition 2013-13)
Skeleton: D' U B * L U L' U' B' R' F R F U R' F2 R' B L' B' U D'
Insert at *: R' (F2 R' B2 R F2 R' B2 R) R

After that I found a better skeleton, but it was not enough to get the first place.
Congrats on your win, Sébastien and Attila. :tu


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## Cubenovice (Apr 2, 2013)

okayama said:


> I encountered an unlucky skeleton that needs a 9-move insertion again.
> Scramble: U R2 U B2 U B2 F2 U2 R2 U' L2 B L2 U F2 D2 R' F2 R2 F' (Weekly competition 2013-13)



Very unfortunate...

Just browsed over the solutions, I was a bit surprised that only Jacob started with the 2-move 2x2x2 block.
I spotted it on the normal scramble and initially used it with premoves, then tried it on the inverse but nothing good came out of it.
Did anyone else try it but dismissed it because of poor continuation?


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## mehdi-roshan (Apr 7, 2013)

Scramble: R D' R2 L2 U2 L' B2 L' B2 F2 U' R' L2 F' U' R' L' U R' D' L2 R2 D2 U L D R L' U' F'


Premove : R'

2X2X3 Block : L F L' D2 R2 F2 U2 L D2 // (9/9)
F2L minus 1 slot : U R F R' F' [#] //(5/14)
All but 3 corners : U F' U2 F R U' R' //(7/21)
Correction: R' 

Insert at # = F2 U B U' F2 U B' U' //(8-3/26) 

Final solution: L F L' D2 R2 F2 U2 L D2 U R F R' F U B U' F2 U B' F' U2 F R U' R2 (26 HTM)


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## Sebastien (Apr 7, 2013)

My results from BW Open 2013: 26, 26

First attempt: F' U2 L' D L F' L' B D2 B2 R F2 L' B2 R' L2 D2 R' U2


Spoiler



On Inverse:
2x2x3: D' B R' D' L2 F2
switch and F2L-1: U L B' U B
switch and L3C: F U' F' U2 B * U' L' U' L U B'

* = B' R B L2 B' R' B L2

Solution: U L B' U B2 U' L' U L U L2 B' R B L2 B' R' U2 F U F L2 D R B' D

26 moves, optimal insertion.



Second attempt: R2 B' D2 F U2 L2 F2 R2 F' U R B2 U' B F' U R2 U' F



Spoiler



On inverse: 
L7C: R' U2 R' B' U' : L * U' D' L . U2 L

. = L' D' L U' L' D L U
: = U R D' R' U' R D R'
* R D' L2 D R' D' L2 D

Solution: L' U L' D' L U L' D U L2 D R D' L2 D L' D' R' U R D R' B R U2 R

26 moves, optimal insertions.



This does actually lead to some pretty cool averages:

Current official average of 12: 30, 27, 31, 28, (32), (26), 26, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26 = 27,5

Hope that I'll be able to roll this a bit further.

My last 12 attempt overall:

- 23 (FMC Mustcube 441)
- 25/26 (German Forum Competition hier vom 18.3. bis 24.3.)
- 25/29 (German Forum Competition hier vom 25.3. bis 31.3.)
- 25 (FMC Mustcube 443)
- 25 (Speedsolving Weekly competition 2013-13)
- 25 (FMC Mustcube 444)
- 26/26 (German Forum Competition hier vom 1.4. bis 7.4.)
- 26/26 (BW Open 2013)

results in: (23), 25, 26, 25, (29), 25, 25, 25, 26, 26, 26, 26 = 25,5 

Too bad I'm apparantly still too loosy even for keeping the NR for my nationality.


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## HMS (Apr 7, 2013)

Finally started to get the hang of using NISS:

Scramble: D' L2 F2 D L2 D R2 D F2 R2 U2 F U B2 F2 U L D2 L2 D' U'

My solve: F R2 D' R2 B D L D R2 F B' R2 U F U' B U F M F2 U' M2 U B2 M B2 U F U2 F' B U' B'

F R2 D' R2 B D L D R2 F B' R2 B - xxCross (13/13)

Apply on Inverse, then continuation - B U B' F U2 F' (6/19)

Apply on original scramble, then xxCross, continuation -
B' U F U' B U F' (Niklas) (7/26)

F2 M F2 U' M2 U B2 M B2 U (ELL) (13/39)

Undo premoves - F U2 F' B U' B

3 Cancellations = 36 HTM, about half an hour

How's 36 for a first shot at NISS? Any advice? Also, is there a better way I could have written the solution out, i'm not exactly sure what the proper format is.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 7, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Too bad I'm apparantly still too loosy even for keeping the NR for my nationality.



You obviously need more practice 

But big props to Moritz as it was a very nice solution.


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## Sebastien (Apr 8, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> You obviously need more practice



Sure, I will practise more and eventually get sub20 average!



Spoiler



I really wish that FMC would work like that...


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## Cubenovice (Apr 8, 2013)

In all honesty; I think that you and Tomoaki are living proof that practice pays off.

sub 30 av12 in official FMC!!!

I know how you do it but I still don't get it


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## Sebastien (Apr 8, 2013)

Well, it pays off for consitency, but not for good singles. Now I got 27,5 official average of 12 but there is not even a sub26 single in there.

Ok, it is more likely to be lucky with insertions than being lucky with an LL skip, but I'm still waiting for one attempt with good cancelations after a great skeleton (just look at my second attempt this weekend), like Tomoaki got at his WR.

But I'll stop whining and provide some more cool FMC stats:

Considering this weekend's results (5 sub30s at BW Open 2013 and a 26 by Daniel in Ireland) there are now more than 200 official sub30s (202 to be precise) from 78 different people.

Most sub30s:



Spoiler



Sébastien Auroux 34
Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭) 14
Erik Akkersdijk 10
Milán Baticz 9
Clément Gallet 9
Daniel Sheppard 9
Jan Bentlage 7
Teemu Tiinanen 5
Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez 4
Grzegorz Łuczyna 4
Arnaud van Galen 4
Tim Reynolds 4
Mats Valk 4
Kanneti Sae Han (คันธ์เนตี แซ่ห่าน) 3
David Woner 3
Loïc Petit 3
Mario Laurent 2
Tobias Christlieb 2
Guillain Potron 2
Yu Nakajima (中島悠) 2
Henrik Buus Aagaard 2
Mirek Goljan 2
Simon Westlund 2
Michael Young 2
Stephen Adhisaputra 2
Alexander Olleta del Molino 2
Michał Pleskowicz 2
Guus Razoux Schultz 2
Linus Fresz 2
Ralph Eikelenberg 1
Evgeny Akivis 1
Sergey Ryabko 1
Stefan Pochmann 1
Robert Yau 1
Vidar Klungre 1
Dmitry Karyakin 1
Antoine Perdereau 1
Fang Qin (秦方) 1
Sebastiano Tronto 1
Hongfei Tian (田洪飞) 1
Shotaro Makisumi (牧角章太郎) 1
Mikhail Rostovikov 1
Joon Cha 1
Peter Hung 1
Ron van Bruchem 1
Anton Rostovikov 1
Olivier Polspoel 1
Thom Barlow 1
Auguste Olivry 1
Lorenzo Vigani Poli 1
Claudio Müller 1
Nicolas Fruy 1
István Kocza 1
Johannes Laire 1
Erik Jernqvist 1
Piotr Michał Padlewski 1
Shuang Chen (陈霜) 1
Marcel Peters 1
Olivér Perge 1
Jimmy Coll 1
Baiqiang Dong (董百强) 1
Olivier Stietel 1
Lars Vandenbergh 1
Sam Boyles 1
Abdelhak Kaddour 1
Jack Moseley 1
Yunqi Ouyang (欧阳韵奇) 1
Juan Juli Andika Chandra 1
Yumu Tabuchi (田渕雄夢) 1
Dennis Loose 1
Steven Xu 1
Zbigniew Zborowski 1
Dániel Varga 1
Moritz Karl 1
Andres Flügel 1
Philippe Virouleau 1
Jakob Kogler 1
Anthony Hsu 1


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## okayama (Apr 8, 2013)

Sébastien,

Of course you know it, but let me daresay this here.
The WCA ranking does not necessarily reflect the FMC ability accurately, because that is based on just single records.
You got many Sub 30 results, 26.33 mean of 3 (see here), 27.5 average of 12, which are far superior to the others.
This means you are the best FMC solver in the world. Be confident, actually you are the world champion.
I wish I will be in a position to say ``that is not true anymore'' in the future, but it seems no easy matter. 

I am not saying a single record is meaningless.
I believe that just luckiness does not lead a really short solution, but no little ingenuity is required for it.
Congrats Moritz, and please keep it up for further Sub 30s, which should reinforce your ER.


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## Sebastien (Apr 8, 2013)

Tomoaki, thanks for your kind words!

Actually your reaction revealed to me, that my previous posts here may seem way more desperate as they were actually meant. Please reread them with a little smile. 

As I already stated in the German forum, I'm happy with Moritz for his result and even if it was lucky in the end I consider his solution as way more worthy as the previous double-ER. It also motivates me to continue practising the event we like so much.


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## Sebastien (Apr 9, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> I got a 28 at Leicester Open this weekend. Like my 27 in Edinburgh a month ago, this was a fairly straightfoward solution again. When I say straightforward, I'm comparing it to some of the crazy complicated solutions I've done officially before.
> 27, 33, 33, 32, 29, 28, (26), 27, (DNF), 31, 27, 28 = *29.5 avg12*



33, 33, 32, 29, 28, (26), 27, (DNF), 31, 27, 28, 26 = 29.4 avg12

I wish you lots of fun rolling this.


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## Username (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm not good at FMC, but I thought of a way to do it somewhat good (i think) Could somebody tell me if this would work?

1. Do the scramble/Inverse scramble, don't do any pre moves
2. See if there are 3 corners that could be good to cycle to make an easier all but 3 corners. 
3. Cycle the 3 corners as a pre move
4. Solve the cube like you would in whatever method you currently use, and look for insertions to cancel the pre move.
5....
6. Profit

Would this work?


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## Sebastien (Apr 9, 2013)

Quite confusing...I don't really know how you want your step 2 to work as this requires information you cannot have at this point.

Even if what you describe would be applicable, just creating a skeleton leaving X corners and inserting them normally would be always at least as good as an applicable version of what you describe.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 9, 2013)

Scramble from Northern Irish Open 2013: U' B2 D2 F2 L2 D R2 F2 D' L2 B' D2 R' F D' R2 U2 L U F

My solution: *26 moves (=NR)* L2 F' L2 U R' L' F U B' D' B' U B D U2 L2 U B' U B U2 B' R B' R' B2

I'm not too proud of this joint NR (with myself and Rob Yau) because although it's decent, I was expecting a 29 mover or so from the skeleton, and the 5 move cancellation is basically luck and not skill. Also, no NISS or premoves 

2x2x2: L2 F' L2 U R' L' F (The L' just makes the extension to 2x2x3 easier)
2x2x3: U B'
F2L-1: B' U B U2 L2
Some EO: U B' U B
F2L and edges leaving 3 corners: U2 B' R B' R' B2
Skeleton: L2 F' L2 U R' L' F U B2 * U B U2 L2 U B' U B U2 B' R B' R' B2 (23)
Insert B D' B' U B D B' U' at * to cancel 5 moves
Final solution: L2 F' L2 U R' L' F U B' D' B' U B D U2 L2 U B' U B U2 B' R B' R' B2




Sebastien said:


> 33, 33, 32, 29, 28, (26), 27, (DNF), 31, 27, 28, 26 = 29.4 avg12
> I wish you lots of fun rolling this.


Thank you. Hopefully I can make it into the 28s


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## Username (Apr 9, 2013)

How do you know when to use the inverse scramble? And how do you choose a good pre move?


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## kinch2002 (Apr 9, 2013)

Username said:


> How do you know when to use the inverse scramble? And how do you choose a good pre move?


This has been answered many times in this thread - just search a bit and you will find it


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## Sebastien (Apr 10, 2013)

okayama said:


> On the hardest scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
> 
> [Brief History] Full solutions for the scramble by human beings in this thread:
> 
> ...



I wanted to challenge myself and asked Tomoaki for hard scrambles he had listed, so I tried this scramble for the first time today. The result makes me pretty happy! 

My solution (within 1 hour):


Spoiler



Pseudo 2x2x3 on Inverse: F' R B D B L' B' U' F D F'
switch and L5C: D2 R' B' R D R2 B' R D

Skeleton: D2 R' B' R D R2 B' R D F D' F' . U B L B' D' * B' R' F

. = F2 U' B2 U F2 U' B2 U
* = D B U' B' D' B U B'

Solution: D2 R' B' R D R2 B' R D F D' F U' B2 U F2 U' B2 U2 B L U' B' D' B U B2 R' F

29 moves!!


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## Robert-Y (Apr 10, 2013)

Oh my god... I thought no one was trying anymore 

I occasionally tried to get sub 30 on this scramble but never succeeded. I think my closest was a 30 with a sune for LL. But I might have miscounted.

Congrats Sebastien!


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## Cubenovice (Apr 10, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> My solution (within 1 hour):
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Congratulations!
I hate that scramble with a vengeance


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## guusrs (Apr 10, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> I wanted to challenge myself and asked Tomoaki for hard scrambles he had listed, so I tried this scramble for the first time today. The result makes me pretty happy!
> 29 moves!!



Hi Sebastien.

Congratz with your latest awesome competition results. 
I will use the scrambles and your solutions for my training.
And also compliments for everyone who had consistantly sub-30 results:
Tomoaki, Daniel, Milan, Erik, Teemu (still cubing?)

29 moves for the hardest scramble is excellent too. I spend several hours on it to get it sub-30 but failed so far.
Now we have to give the hardest scramble a new try. Not for the 1-hour record, Sebastien holds it now, but for the unlimited-time one 

My DNF rate at comps (±50%) is just too high to ever get a mean-of-12 average.
But I promise improvement. My weekly online-comps-results give me hope. For example: no one will beat my result in this week 2013-15 FMC!

See ya guys.

Gus


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## BQ (Apr 11, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can you share your experience about finding two insertions within one hour?
I just wonder how you found the optimal insertions.


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## okayama (Apr 11, 2013)

My hats off to you, Sébastien. I couldn't choose a proper face mark from the list.   :confused:      :tu   :fp

Now I update the history for the hardest scramble (list those who wrote down a full solution in this thread).
Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

35 HTM by Conrad (maybe first try, within 1-hour?)
34 HTM by Tomoaki (within 1-hour) and shorten Conrad's solution to 32 HTM (no time limit)
Another 32 HTM solution by Tomoaki (no time limit)
31 HTM by Guus (within 1-hour)
30 HTM by Tomoaki (no time limit)
30 HTM by Attila (no time limit)
32 HTM by David (no time limit)
29 HTM by Sébastien (within 1-hour)
If there's any omissions/missings, please let me know the solution.

In addition to the hard*est* scramble, I would like to share some hard scrambles here (Sébastien said in his post).

Dutch Open 2009: R2 D B2 U B2 D B' D' R' U' F' D2 B2 R D L' B' F*
by Cielo: L' R2 B2 D2 B2 R' B L' D' U F' L' F2 D' R2 B' U2 R F2 U'*
FMC336: F' R U D' L2 F' B' U' B2 F2 L R' U D B2 F L R' B R' B D F2 R' D2 F' B' D U2 R
FMC310: U' D2 L R' F2 R B D' F' B2 U' D' F' R2 L2 F U B' D2 U' B' L F2 U R D' B F R' U'
FMC307: L' D B' D2 F' B U D' R F' D F' L B' D R' L' D F2 L D B2 F' U' L' R2 B' F L2 R
FMC283: U' D2 B U L' B' F2 D2 L R U2 F' R' L2 D U2 F2 B' D' L' B' F2 U R B' F' R' U' B2 F2*
FMC280: U' F2 U' D2 B2 U' B' F U' B L' U2 D' L' F2 B D2 B' L' B F R D R2 U R' F' U2 D R2
FMC279: U' F' U2 B' L D' U F2 L2 B' U2 F2 B2 R U' B L U F' B' D U B R' B2 F R2 D2 L R2*
FMC272: D2 L D' L2 U R' L2 B L R2 F D2 L R B' R F' R B' U' D L2 B' R D' R2 L2 F2 U' B*
Taken from this post and this post. Cielo's scramble may be the hardest in this list.
The mark '*' at the end means that no one has achieved Sub 30 AFAIK. Be first!


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## irontwig (Apr 11, 2013)

okayama said:


> [*]by Cielo: L' R2 B2 D2 B2 R' B L' D' U F' L' F2 D' R2 B' U2 R F2 U'*



Sorry for being too lazy to find insertions by myself, but:
The Scramble
L' R2 B2 D2 B2 R' B L' D' U F' L' F2 D' R2 B' U2 R F2 U'
Your Skeleton
F2 R2 U2 B L2 R2 B2 U2 D2 B' F2 U' F2 B2 R L' F B2 D' U R2 U2
Result
2 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
F2 R2 U2 B L2 [@1] R2 B2 U2 D2 B' F2 U' F2 B2 R L' F B2 D' U R2 U2
Insert at @1: R' D2 F2 U2 L F2 D2 B2 R2
After the 1st insertion: F2 R2 U2 B L2 R' D2 F2 U2 L F2 U2 B' F2 U' F2 B2 R L' B2 [@2] F D' U R2 U2
Insert at @2: U2 F U D' L' U2 L U' D F'
Fewest moves: 29. 12 moves cancelled
The final solution: F2 R2 U2 B L2 R' D2 F2 U2 L F2 U2 B' F2 U' F2 B2 R L' B2 U2 F U D' L' U2 L R2 U2
Runtime: 9.529 milliseconds

CF heaven


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## Sebastien (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks everyone! 

After finding the 20 move skeleton after ~20 minutes I was extra careful with finding the insertions. I can't remember ever being so nervous during an FMC attempt at home as I was yesterday, especially after finding the first insertion with 5 moves cancelation! 



BQ said:


> Can you share your experience about finding two insertions within one hour?
> I just wonder how you found the optimal insertions.



There is not so much to share actually. What I do for >= 2 insertions is, as for every kind of insertion, sticker the pieces appropriately and go through the skeleton. For the first insertions I search for bigger cancelations and I usually ignore cancelations below 3. Often there is one insertion dominating the others, so I take this as basis for my "new" skeleton and search for inserting the remaining pieces. Sometimes there are 2 good first insertions, then I just check for both resulting skeletons. I think I have never had more then 2-3 equally good first insertions.

In theory, this approach does not guarantee you the optimal insertions (even assuming you find the optimal ones in each step). So this has to be seen as heuristic. It works amazingly good though, I always check my insertions for optimality after an attempt and I think I missed optimality not more than 1 or 2 times during the last 1-2 years, and this might have rather been my fault not seeing a specific insertion.

I guess to do this regulary, you need to become fast and accurate with insertions. Inserting for skeletons were 2 insertions are needed usually takes me ~10 minutes. This naturally depends on how obvious the insertions are. 

2 insertions is definitely not the limit. I've had two attempts in competition this year resulting in a 26 where 3 insertions were involved (Velbert Open 2013, 2nd attempt, BW Open 2013 2nd attempt).


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## Sebastien (Apr 11, 2013)

guusrs said:


> no one will beat my result in this week 2013-15 FMC!



sure? 

Could be interesting.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 11, 2013)

Sébastien: For 2 insertions, I just go through once writing down all the insertions that cancel moves. Then I look for the best combo of 2 insertions that will solve everything. Have you ever tried this? I think it's quite fast and possibly covers more options than your 2-pass method does


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## Brest (Apr 12, 2013)

kinch: Once you've found insertion with the most moves cancelled, do you look for an insertion within that insertion?


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## okayama (Apr 12, 2013)

Sébastien & Daniel: I found previous posts from this thread: by Kinch and Kryptonite, may be useful for this topic (double-insertion).

I like this 1-pass approach. But as Brest pointed out, this approach misses the option: commutator into commutator.
If I have a time, of course I investigate it, and I believe Daniel does too (judging from his previous post).

For a 5-corner cycle, this approach works fine, but I wonder if there's a good way for 4 corners...


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## kunparekh18 (Apr 12, 2013)

I am willing to get into FMC. I have been following this thread for quite some time and it seems very interesting.

How should I start, any tutorial or such? 

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2


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## irontwig (Apr 12, 2013)

okayama said:


> Sébastien & Daniel: I found previous posts from this thread: by Kinch and Kryptonite, may be useful for this topic (double-insertion).
> 
> I like this 1-pass approach. But as Brest pointed out, this approach misses the option: commutator into commutator.
> If I have a time, of course I investigate it, and I believe Daniel does too (judging from his previous post).
> ...



Seems a bit over-complicated, I just do the insertion that cancels the most amount of moves and leaves three corners first. And yeah, with 4 corners you have to keep track of the orientations too. Just going through the skeleton twice might be the best compromise of simplicity and speed.


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## Sebastien (Apr 12, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> Sébastien: For 2 insertions, I just go through once writing down all the insertions that cancel moves. Then I look for the best combo of 2 insertions that will solve everything. Have you ever tried this? I think it's quite fast and possibly covers more options than your 2-pass method does



Writing down ALL insertions that cancel moves? That sounds like lots of work and most of this work will be useless.

What I like about my approach is especially is, that huge cancelations are very difficult to miss. Finding the next insertion is easier then, as you have less pieces to track and it is less likely to miss the best second insertion.

I have never tried your approach though (well, at least not exactly as you do it). How much time does this take you?


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## guusrs (Apr 12, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> guusrs said:
> 
> 
> > no one will beat my result in this week 2013-15 FMC!
> ...


Yeh, sure! 
(we both know maths, do we?).
I will post my solution on monday


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## Sebastien (Apr 12, 2013)

damn!  Congratz then!


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## Cubenovice (Apr 12, 2013)

guusrs said:


> Yeh, sure!
> (we both know maths, do we?).
> I will post my solution on monday



Oooooh!
But it can still be matched 

Time to try FMC again....


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## Sebastien (Apr 12, 2013)

okayama said:


> [*]by Cielo: L' R2 B2 D2 B2 R' B L' D' U F' L' F2 D' R2 B' U2 R F2 U'*



My solution (within 1 hour): 28



Spoiler



F2L-1: U' R' F' L' F B' D U2 F U B' R' B R' U2
L3C: R B2 R' B2 U' B * U B' U' B U

Nice insertion saves the day:

* = B' D' B U B' D B U'

Solution: U' R' F' L' F B' D U2 F U B' R' B R' U2 R B2 R' B2 U' D' B U B' D U' B U


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## kinch2002 (Apr 12, 2013)

Brest said:


> kinch: Once you've found insertion with the most moves cancelled, do you look for an insertion within that insertion?


No. That is the one thing that escapes my method. 2-passing by picking the best first cancellation of course is also fallible. The question of which one does not find optimal more times is up for debate imo.



Sebastien said:


> Writing down ALL insertions that cancel moves? That sounds like lots of work and most of this work will be useless.
> 
> What I like about my approach is especially is, that huge cancelations are very difficult to miss. Finding the next insertion is easier then, as you have less pieces to track and it is less likely to miss the best second insertion.
> 
> I have never tried your approach though (well, at least not exactly as you do it). How much time does this take you?


I don't actually write down each insertion, for most I just note the point at which the insertion is, what it cycles (e.g. (451)) and how many it cancels. If I find a good one (3 or more) I would write the first 4 moves down as these ones are more likely to be used. Once I have finished checking, I will pick my pair of insertions and go and find the exact moves if it was one I did not write down during the pass.
For your method, you have to look at all 5 options after each move anyway, so you're still checking just as much during the first pass. I just don't have to go back through again afterwards looking for another insertion.
I really don't know how long it takes tbh, but I'm sure I'd be several minutes slower if I did 2-pass.


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## BQ (Apr 13, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> I guess to do this regulary, you need to become fast and accurate with insertions.



I agree with that. Quickly finding insertions is my weakness. It cost me about 10 minutes to find a insertion. So I always made a skeleton with 3 corners left.


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## okayama (Apr 13, 2013)

(About those whose FMC record < 3x3 time)


okayama said:


> Cubenovice said:
> 
> 
> > I shall remain anonymous until I get the opportunity to "officialise" my signature.
> ...


I found a spanish guy who is surprisingly good at FMC with not so excellent 3x3 time:

Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez
and from his result, I also found that FMC with multiple attempts were held many times in late years in Spain.
For example, 2012-2013(until May):

Dual Games 2013 (Best of 3)
Murcia Open 2013 (Best of 3)
Castellon Open 2013 (Best of 3)
UAM Open 2013 (Best of 3)
Molina Open 2013 (Best of 3)
Spanish Championship 2012 (Best of 3)
Basauri Open 2012 (Best of 2)
Valgame Open 2012 (Best of 3)
Granada Open 2012 (Best of 3)
Rubikaz 10th Anniversary Open 2012 (Best of 2)
Castellon Open 2012 (Best of 3)
Barcelona Winter Open 2012 (Best of 2)


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## Sebastien (Apr 13, 2013)

okayama said:


> [*]Dutch Open 2009: R2 D B2 U B2 D B' D' R' U' F' D2 B2 R D L' B' F*



Eventually a scramble from this list that looks quite normally. 

My solution (didn't really watch the time, but should have been within 1 hour, if you ignore that I competed in the competition in 2009): 



Spoiler



1x2x2: U' L' U' 
Another 1x2x2: F2 R B * R 
2x2x3: F2 U2 B'
L4C: B D R D2 U F D F' U' # B' D

* = B' R F2 R' B R F2 R' (7 moves cancelling!)
# = R' F2 R B' R' F2 R B (2 moves cancelling)

Solution: U' L' U' F2 R2 F2 R' B R U2 D R D2 U F D F' U' R' F2 R B' R' F2 R D

26 moves (optimal for the skeleton)


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 15, 2013)

guusrs said:


> Yeh, sure!
> (we both know maths, do we?).
> I will post my solution on monday



Wow, just wow. UWR, I assume? (17 moves)


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## CubeRoots (Apr 16, 2013)

BQ said:


> I agree with that. Quickly finding insertions is my weakness. It cost me about 10 minutes to find a insertion. So I always made a skeleton with 3 corners left.



This reminds me of a question i've been trying to answer for myself. After EO+F2L-1, I can easily force edges to solve in few moves. However, whether i get 0 2 3 4 or 5 though is almost completely down to chance, at this stage, with so much restriction, how does one force as many corners to solve whilst solving the edges? I suck at insertions too so if I could give myself last 3 corners instead of other options this would help me out a lot.


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## kunparekh18 (Apr 16, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> I am willing to get into FMC. I have been following this thread for quite some time and it seems very interesting.
> 
> How should I start, any tutorial or such?
> 
> Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2



Bump



Mike Hughey said:


> Wow, just wow. UWR, I assume? (17 moves)



Sorry but I cannot see the solution :confused:

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2


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## okayama (Apr 16, 2013)

Mike Hughey said:


> guusrs said:
> 
> 
> > Yeh, sure!
> ...


I also think so. (See my post)
Finding an optimal 17-move solution within 20 min is beyond the pale of human conduct...
God descended to this world. 


kunparekh18 said:


> Sorry but I cannot see the solution :confused:


He posted his solution to the submission site: http://www.speedsolving.com/competitions/,
so you can see it if you have an account.

Guus, the solution and its explanation are definitely worth posting here or the competition page,
so that anyone can refer the awesome result. Amazing, fantastic, that is legendary for the fierceness.


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## MarcelP (Apr 16, 2013)

kunparekh18 said:


> Bump




Kunaal,

Check this most awesome topic:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques

Lot's of great stuff there.


@Guusr,

Congrats on the UWR. If one person deserves this title, it's you! Now please post the solution since I am dying to see it..

Ps I thought I was pretty cool with my 46 moves solution of this week LOL..


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## kunparekh18 (Apr 16, 2013)

Thanks for the link!!


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## guusrs (Apr 16, 2013)

here it is, my solution for FMC of this forums weekly competition 2013-15:
scramble: D2 F2 U' L2 D B2 U' F2 L2 F2 U' L' D' L2 B' D' F D U' R U
my solve: B U F2 D' F L2 D L2 D L' R F R' D' F' R2 D (17)

my first moves: quick start: B U F' L F'
to fix pseudoblock at the right add premoves (R2 D)
continue obvious start: 2 blocks: B F' U (3+2)
I investigated this start for several minutes, parked it for later, and investigated an alternative start with these same promising pre-moves (R2 D):
2x2x2: B U (2+2)
save pair before creating next block: F2 (3+2)
block and extra pair: D' F L2 D (7+2)
another block and extra pair: L2 D L' (10+2)
finish F2L and LL-skip: R F R' D' F' (15+2)
undo pre-moves (R2 D) (17)
Very lucky solve, 20min!
PB and optimal solution!


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## mycube (Apr 16, 2013)

*Weekly Competition 16 Scramble*


Spoiler



B2 F2 D' R2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U F2 R' B' D L' D2 L F' D' U' 
I found some other bad Insertions:
F‘ D U L
D2 F R2 F‘
R D2 R2 D‘ R2 D‘ B'

2 pure 3cornercycles in 15 Moves. Optimal are 2 move cancellation -.-


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## mycube (Apr 17, 2013)

and another frustrating solution:

U2 R D2 F2 L' B2 L D2 F2 U2 R2 B L F' D F2 R D' L2 F2
F2 L2 D R‘ F2 D‘ F L‘ B‘ R2 U2 F2 D2 L‘ B2 L F2 D2 R‘ U2

Pre: F‘ 
R U‘ B2 R B2 U2 R‘ B‘ R‘ - 2x2x3 [9+1/10]
F2 R‘ B‘ D‘ B - F2L-1 [5/15]
U‘ R‘ U R F R‘ F‘ R - Finish [8/23]

R U‘ B2 R B2 U2 R‘ B‘ R‘ F2 R‘ B‘ . D‘ B U‘ R‘ U R F R‘ F‘ R F‘
. = U L‘ U‘ R2 U L U‘ R2 [8/31] *optimal insertions -.- * and single option to insert.

Solution:
R U‘ B2 R B2 U2 R‘ B‘ R‘ F2 R‘ B‘ U L‘ U‘ R2 U L U‘ R2 D‘ B U‘ R‘ U R F R‘ F‘ R F‘ - 31 Moves


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## irontwig (Apr 18, 2013)

mycube said:


> and another frustrating solution:
> 
> U2 R D2 F2 L' B2 L D2 F2 U2 R2 B L F' D F2 R D' L2 F2
> F2 L2 D R‘ F2 D‘ F L‘ B‘ R2 U2 F2 D2 L‘ B2 L F2 D2 R‘ U2
> ...



Had more luck:

R' U L' U' B2 L B D F' D2 L D' R2 D L' U' R D2 R' U R D R2 D' R D F2 (27)

R' U L' U' B2 L B D F' D R2 D.R..D' R2 D' R D F2

.=D' R2 D L D' R2 D L'
..=R' U' R D2 R' U R D2


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## Applecow (Apr 22, 2013)

my relatively lucky solution on the second scramble at German Open 2013:

Scramble: R U2 L' U2 L2 B' L D' B D2 B2 R' L2 U2 L' F2 L2 B2 U2

Start on normal: F' U2 B2 L2 F L (6/6)
Switch: D R' D' (same stuff would've worked on the normal scramble too, but afterwards I just found crap to continue with) (3/9)
continuing on invers: F' U F2 (3/12)
End on normal: U2 F R' F' U' R U' R' U2 R U2 (11/23)

Basti told me shortly afterwards that it could've been a 21 if i had put in the last F2L pair with U R U R' U' F' U2 F U but I didn't know that case and was quite happy about the 23. So in the 10 minutes I had left I wrote down the solution and didn't look for anything else.

F' U2 B2 L2 F L U2 F R' F U R U' R' U2 R U2 F2 U' F D R D'
23 moves


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## MarcelP (Apr 22, 2013)

Ok, can some one explain how I go about to cycle these three edges.. This framework is fmc.mustcube.net nr 447 what I got in 7 moves:


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## mycube (Apr 22, 2013)

i think you can't cycle them.


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## MarcelP (Apr 22, 2013)

mycube said:


> i think you can't cycle them.



No not like this. But earlier in the solve?


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## Ollie (Apr 22, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Ok, can some one explain how I go about to cycle these three edges..



There's a 10 move HTM commutator: y U M2 U' [L2] U M2 U' [L2] y' which is fairly long and fairly useless. (btw, that alg is executed with the green stickers oriented on the D face )

I'd only use that if the 6 move HTM edge insertion isn't possible *(M' U2 M U2) or the 7 move variation *(U M' U2 M U)

EDIT: sorry, I think you just wanted to know about either of these* algs


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## irontwig (Apr 22, 2013)

(R2 U R2 f2)2 Though tbh honest I can't really explain why that cycles three edges, seems like magic


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## MarcelP (Apr 22, 2013)

Ollie said:


> There's a 10 move HTM commutator: y U M2 U' [L2] U M2 U' [L2] y' which is fairly long and fairly useless. (btw, that alg is executed with the green stickers oriented on the D face )
> 
> I'd only use that if the 6 move HTM edge insertion isn't possible *(M' U2 M U2) or the 7 move variation *(U M' U2 M U)
> 
> EDIT: sorry, I think you just wanted to know about either of these* algs





irontwig said:


> (R2 U R2 f2)2 Though tbh honest I can't really explain why that cycles three edges, seems like magic



Thanks guys, I a complete noob in FMC. I know how to cycle edges with PLL's. But as soon as they are not on the same face I get lost.. I will try to find an insert with the algs from Ollie. If that fails I will use the alg of Irontwig. That is a pretty nifty alg btw. How did you come up wit that? Just lots of FMC experience?

Edit: Both (R2 U R2 f2)2 and y U M2 U' [L2] U M2 U' [L2] y leave the green/yellow edge flipped.


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## Cubenovice (Apr 22, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Edit: Both (R2 U R2 f2)2 and y U M2 U' [L2] U M2 U' [L2] y leave the green/yellow edge flipped.



 both algs work for oriented edges. I guess the orientation of the top piece was overlooked by both Erik and Ollie.

But still a great alg by Erik!

edit: Here's a 10 mover that is very easy to remember: R F R F R F' R' F' R' F'


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## MarcelP (May 4, 2013)

I have all edges fixed on last layer. How do I move these corners?


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## Username (May 4, 2013)

1 corner twist and a 3-cycle. Insertions are the way to go i guess


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## mycube (May 4, 2013)

two commutators: 1st have to be with the twisted corner and have to solve another one.
hold white on the left side and blue in front:
R' F' R B' R' F R B
the secound one have to solve the last 3 corners:
B' R B L' B' R' B L
when you do this two commutators there are some cancellations:
R' F' R B' R' F *R B B' R* B L' B' R' B L -> R' F' R B' R' F *R2* B L' B' R' B L
13 moves instead of 16.

or you can insert commutators in the solve so there is the high chance to cancel more than just 3 moves


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## Cubenovice (May 4, 2013)

A bit late but i found the same as linus...

in wca scrambling otientation (as we're thinking FMC):
D' B' D F' D' B *D F - F' D *F U' F' D' F U

Take care when doing this at the end:
You could also break out the twisted one and solve white-orange-blue with: U' L D L' U L D' L' to leave three corners.
BUT this reult cannot be solved in 8 moves.

Always explore your options.

But in genral you use insertions for this:
1st insertion has to solve one corner + move the twisted one
2nd solves the remaining 3 corners

For the 1st you can typically cancel a lot of moves as you have many options.


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## MarcelP (May 4, 2013)

mycube said:


> two commutators: 1st have to be with the twisted corner and have to solve another one.
> hold white on the left side and blue in front:
> R' F' R B' R' F R B
> the secound one have to solve the last 3 corners:
> ...



You are awesome! I can learn from this. Thanks a lot!


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## kinch2002 (May 7, 2013)

*Nottingham Open 2013*

Scramble: F B U2 D' L U' D' B R' D' R B2 D2 R2 U2 D2 B2 L' B2 R

My 31 move solution


Spoiler



Inverse scramble: R' B2 L B2 D2 U2 R2 D2 B2 R' D R B' D U L' D U2 B' F'
2x2x3: F2 L2 U F2 R' L2 U L F' (9) _The basic 2x2x2 is F2 L2 U L', which I used as a basis for the whole 2x2x3_
Another square: F' U' F (11)
Another square: U D R B R' B' D' (18) _This is basically just FURU'R'F' on the LL_
Fix squares, leaving 3 twisted corners and 2 flipped edges: R2 U (20)
Finish: B F U F2 L F L2 U L U2 B' (31) _My favourite FM alg! (with a setup move)_

_Other stuff_
Switch to normal after F2L-1 above by doing premoves U2 F' U F2 L' U' R L2 F2 U' L2 F2
F2L: U' R U (15)
Last layer sucked though, although my normal OLL leaves A perm at 26 moves. Insertion wasn't good enough to beat 31 moves.

Also found this interesting solution:
Premove U2 and inverse scramble
2x2x3: F2 L2 U B' D B R F L' (9)
Some EO: B U' B' (12)
F2L: R U' F' U2 F (17+1 PM)
Optimal Z perm to leave 3 corners: F' B R2 L2 F' B L' B2 F2 R D2 U2 (26)
The insertion wasn't good enough to beat 31 unfortunately.


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## irontwig (May 8, 2013)

Love that alg too, Daniel. Not sure if this been brought up in this thread, but I noticed that Attila went to his first comp last year and managed to find a not too shabby 30 move solution (although I'm sure it was sub-30 in STM):
http://worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2012HORV01


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## guusrs (May 9, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> Scramble: F B U2 D' L U' D' B R' D' R B2 D2 R2 U2 D2 B2 L' B2 R


my 10min - little lucky - 21 move frame with 3 corners left:


Spoiler



2x2x3 + pair: U2 L U' L2 D2 F2 U2 B' U' B' (10)
inserted move L2 (11)
F2L-1: F R U' R' F' (16)
3 corners left: L2 F' L' F L (21)



who'll find the best insertion?


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## Cubenovice (May 9, 2013)

guusrs said:


> my 10min - little lucky - 21 move frame with 3 corners left:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...




My meh solutions:


Spoiler



U2 L U' L2 D2 F2 U2 B' . U' B' L2 F : R U' R' F' L2 F' L' F L (21)

. F2 U B U' F2 U B' U' cancels 1 move (28)
or
: F U B' U' F' U B U' cancels 1 move (28)

edit: glad that Insertion Finder agrees on 28 being the max obtainable...
Insertion hunting while intoxicated feels only so-so


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## okayama (May 10, 2013)

Jimmy Liu gave me a nice scramble: D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'
He solved it as R' L F L F L' F' D' F' D F D2 L' B D B' D2 B D' B' F' D2 F D F' D F D2 (28), and wondered if there's sub 20 solution.

My quick attempt resulted in 23 moves, but no better solution was found.
R' L F L2 * D L2 D2 L B' L2 % B L' D L
Insert at *: L' U' L D L' U L D'
Insert at %: R2 B L2 B' R2 B L2 B'

Anyone?


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## Cubenovice (May 10, 2013)

okayama said:


> Jimmy Liu gave me a nice scramble: D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'
> He solved it as R' L F L F L' F' D' F' D F D2 L' B D B' D2 B D' B' F' D2 F D F' D F D2 (28), and wondered if there's sub 20 solution.
> 
> My quick attempt resulted in 23 moves, but no better solution was found.
> Anyone?



R' L F - F2L-1 minus one corner
switch to inverse
D L D' L' - make pair + bring up the missing F2L-1 corner
R' D L D' R - keyhole corner builds square and last F2L pair
L' B D' B' D L - hammer pair leaves 3 corners in 18 HTM
Best insertion I found cancels 2 moves for 24 HTM total...

I was hoping for a good insertion with three sledgehammers in the skeleton


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## irontwig (May 10, 2013)

okayama said:


> Jimmy Liu gave me a nice scramble: D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'
> He solved it as R' L F L F L' F' D' F' D F D2 L' B D B' D2 B D' B' F' D2 F D F' D F D2 (28), and wondered if there's sub 20 solution.
> 
> My quick attempt resulted in 23 moves, but no better solution was found.
> ...



CE gives D2 L' B2 U' F' U2 R2 U2 F U B2 D2 L D L' D (16f*) as a finish after the obvious 2x2x3 for a 19 move total, but I don't understand it all. It seems that the optimal finish after 2x2x3 is about 15-16 htm on average and I've been wondering if anything can be gathered from these solutions, or if it's just special cases and computer magic.


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## Brest (May 11, 2013)

irontwig said:


> CE gives D2 L' B2 U' F' U2 R2 U2 F U B2 D2 L D L' D (16f*) as a finish after the obvious 2x2x3 for a 19 move total, but I don't understand it all. It seems that the optimal finish after 2x2x3 is about 15-16 htm on average and I've been wondering if anything can be gathered from these solutions, or if it's just special cases and computer magic.



There is also:

D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'

R' L F

F L U2 R U' L B' U2 R' D F' L' F' L D' F' U (17f)
F L2 F' L D' L' D L2 D2 B D2 B' D' F' D' F D (17f)
F L' B' L' U D F2 U F' U F' U' D' L2 F' B L (17f)
F2 B' U2 F' U F' L F L F B' U F' B U F' B (17f)


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## kinch2002 (May 11, 2013)

> Jimmy Liu gave me a nice scramble: D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'


Leave 3 corners and 3 edges: R' D2 L F B' L' B D' L D2 L' D
cba to insert. IF gives 23 moves

Skeleton: R' D2 [@1] L F B' L' B D' L D2 L' D
Insert at @1: L U2 R2 B R2 U2 L2 F L
After the 1st insertion: R' D2 L U2 R2 B R2 U2 L2 [@2] F L2 F B' L' B D' L D2 L' D
Insert at @2: R' F L2 F' R F L2 F'
The final solution: R' D2 L U2 R2 B R2 U2 L2 R' F L2 F' R F2 B' L' B D' L D2 L' D (23)


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## mycube (May 11, 2013)

R' L D2 F - 2x2x3
D' L D2 F' D' F - another 1x2x2
L2 B' L B L B' L' B - LL
L' D L - 21 Moves linear LL-Skip


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## okayama (May 12, 2013)

I noticed that there's no result for FMC449/official and FMC449/classic.
I reported the problem to Per (mrCage).

FYI here is my solution for 1-hour. I submitted the same solution for classic.

Scramble: B' F' D' R U2 D B R L' F U D' R B2 L2 B' R2 D L' F' U' B2 F' R L B2 L D' L2 B2
Solution: F' R U' F2 U2 F2 U2 R' U2 F' U F R U L B L' U L B' L2 D F2 L2 (24 moves)


Spoiler



Here is my 30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: U R2 D2 F2 B R

2x2x2 block: (ready)
2x2x3 block: F' U' F R'
Finish F2L: U B U B * U' R' U' R
All but 3 corners: R' U' B' U B R B
Correction: U R2 D2 F2 B R

Insert at *: R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R U2

In the remaining time, I found the following solution.

Pre-scramble: L' D F2 L2

2x2x2 block: (ready)
F2L minus 1 slot: F' R U' F2 U2 F2
All but 3 c/e pairs: U2 R' U2 F' U F R U2
Pair 3-cycle: U' L B L' U L B' L'
Correction: L' D F2 L2


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## guusrs (May 12, 2013)

okayama said:


> I noticed that there's no result for FMC449/official and FMC449/classic.



I thought this was a hard scramble and nobody posted a solution (-;
I DNF-ed after finding two poorly 25 move frames with 3 corners left.


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## MarcelP (May 13, 2013)

guusrs said:


> I thought this was a hard scramble and nobody posted a solution (-;
> I DNF-ed after finding two poorly 25 move frames with 3 corners left.



I did post a solution saturday. And it was accepted.


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## Sebastien (May 13, 2013)

I wondered as well wenn looking yesterday (did not try the scramble myself though). I wonder what results we will see for the current scramble. I found it quite hard to solve.


----------



## irontwig (May 13, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> I wondered as well wenn looking yesterday (did not try the scramble myself though). I wonder what results we will see for the current scramble. I found it quite hard to solve.



You mean #450? Just found a 23-mover on that one.


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## irontwig (May 14, 2013)

The current weekly scramble is crazy; I got 26 moves and I was disappointed.


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## Sebastien (May 14, 2013)

irontwig said:


> You mean #450? Just found a 23-mover on that one.



Indeed I mean #450. Congratz then. I will surely look at your beginning.


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## irontwig (May 14, 2013)

[size=+3]*COMPETION IN PROGRESS*[/size]
You could probably find it after


Spoiler



F2 R' F' U'


----------



## MarcelP (May 14, 2013)

irontwig said:


> [size=+3]*COMPETION IN PROGRESS*[/size]
> You could probably find it after
> 
> 
> ...



I will definatly look into that tonight.. I have found a 17 move frame that leaves 4 corners and 3 egdes. But I don't think I can do a lot with that.


----------



## irontwig (May 14, 2013)

Does anybody know a way to view the old FMC at the cubestation? The Wayback Machine (Web Archive) doesn't seem to be able to find anything.


----------



## okayama (May 14, 2013)

irontwig said:


> Does anybody know a way to view the old FMC at the cubestation? The Wayback Machine (Web Archive) doesn't seem to be able to find anything.


I also want to view the results...
Only Team FMC100 is archived?


----------



## mycube (May 14, 2013)

also found a 26 on the weekly scramble. same as irontwig: i am not happy with this.


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## MarcelP (May 14, 2013)

mycube said:


> also found a 26 on the weekly scramble. same as irontwig: i am not happy with this.


Well, can you imagion how I must feel...

For your merry amusement:



Spoiler



Scramble B2 U' R2 B2 U' B2 U' L2 D F2 D B' R D' B' L' R F2 L2 F R


U2 F' // pseudo 2 x 2 x 2

pre move F'
L' D L *R'* // Another 2 X 2 X 2 on other side

*R* B2 R2 U R U' // 3rd F2L

B D' B2 D B' L B L' // COMPLETE F2L (18 moves plus premove)

D L B L' f L' B2 L' D L D' // OLL (30)

U' B2 U B2 U' L U B U' B' U' L' U2 // PLL (43 moves)

solution : U2 F' L' D L R' R B2 R2 U R U' B D' B2 D B' L B L' D L B L' f L' B2 L' D L D' U' B2 U B2 U' L U B U' B' U' L' U2 F'


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## Cubenovice (May 14, 2013)

irontwig said:


> The current weekly scramble is crazy; I got 26 moves and I was disappointed.



IF I ever had it I have now completely lost it...

Several very nice starts in there indeed but I so suck at finishing F2L-1...
13 HTM with oriented edges --> 17 HTM L5C but there's a twist in there 

Don't feel like spending a whole hour so I eventually opted for a 33 HTM solve ending with the most awesum R' F R' u2 R F' R' u2 R2 F' alg 

edit OOOOHHHHHH 2x2x3 :fp
from there even a possibility for my favorite alg
12 moves to leave a flip-twist and corner cycle to be inserted
12 + 9 + 8 = 29 add in a cancellation or x


----------



## okayama (May 16, 2013)

Can anybody contact Per? I think the problem in fmc.mustcube.net still remains.
Here is my observation:

I sometimes took a screenshot of the submission to fmc.mustcube.net.
So far, the comments have been entried like this:

2x2x3 block: A\' B\' C D\'​
but in the previous round, it was displayed as

2x2x3 block: A' B' C D'​
In the current round either (there's no backslash in the _comments_,
although backslashes are inserted before primes in the _solution_).
I think this is one of the reasons of the trouble.


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## AndersB (May 16, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Well, can you imagion how I must feel...
> 
> For your merry amusement:
> 
> ...


Found a 12-move triple X-cross on that one! 


Spoiler



F R' U' F' R2 L2 F' L' F R2 D F2


 It lead me to a 40 move solution, when just doing it once.


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## kinch2002 (May 16, 2013)

There is a 4 move 2x2x3...so yeah it's quite nice


Spoiler



If you know how to use premoves
PM: R' F'
U2 F'


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## Cubenovice (May 16, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> There is a 4 move 2x2x3...so yeah it's quite nice
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



That was my *edit OOOOHHHHHH 2x2x3 :fp * in my previous post


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## mycube (May 16, 2013)

AndersB said:


> Found a 12-move triple X-cross on that one!
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



well there is a nine move XXX-Cross


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## Sebastien (May 17, 2013)

the 2x2x3 leaves the rest pretty much ugly though. Didn't use it for my 25 move solution.


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## MarcelP (May 17, 2013)

MustCube round *450*:

Scramble U2 R2 B' U L' U' B U L R' B' F L2 U F2 U F U R' F2 B2 D' L' F' B' R2 B2 F U' R2

Don't look if you still want to solve this round without clues:


Spoiler



Premove F2

F2 R' F' U' //pseudo 2 X 2 X 2
L B L' B' L' B D2 U' L' D L U // Another 2 X 2 X 2
D R D' R' D2 R D R' D2 // place and orient last edges


25 moves all but 6 corners.. 

I know how to cycle 3 corners.. How do I go about with 6 corners? One is on it's place but flipped. Do I start with cycling this one with two random other misplaced corners?


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## Cubenovice (May 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> MustCube round *450*:
> 
> 25 moves all but 6 corners..
> 
> I know how to cycle 3 corners.. How do I go about with 6 corners? One is on it's place but flipped. Do I start with cycling this one with two random other misplaced corners?



No, not two random misplaced corners.
On your first cycle you want to* solve one *misplaced corner, break out the twisted one and the 3rd piece is indeed a random misplaced corner.

But typically you only use this for 4 corners of which one is flipped. --> need 2 cycles
When you have 5 including a twist --> need 3 cycles
6 including a twist --> don't even go there


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## MarcelP (May 17, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> No, not two random misplaced corners.
> On your first cycle you want to* solve one *misplaced corner, break out the twisted one and the 3rd piece is indeed a random misplaced corner.



So I sticker one corner that I will solve with number 1, the flipped with no 2 and a random misplaced corner with no 3?


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## TeddyKGB (May 17, 2013)

If I didn't know the first thing about FMC, but was interested in getting into it, what would you recommend I do first?


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## CubeRoots (May 17, 2013)

TeddyKGB said:


> If I didn't know the first thing about FMC, but was interested in getting into it, what would you recommend I do first?



I would recomend learning about the techniques we use


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## Cubenovice (May 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> So I sticker one corner that I will solve with number 1, the flipped with no 2 and a random misplaced corner with no 3?



nope 
This 3-sticker approach is limiting your options.
sticker all 6 corners
1 goes to 2 goes to 3 goes to 4 goes to 5 (5 will be another face on the cubie that already has the "1" sticker)
sticker the twisted cubie with "t" or "x"or whatever you like.

now the insertion hunting goes as mentioned before 
solve one, break out "t" and include another one.
examples:
1 - 2 - t (here 1 is solved and 2 is the other one by default)
4 - t - 3 (here 3 is solved )
etc

The nice thing is that the orientation of t does not matter; just include any face of the "cubie" that contains the t sticker.

But really; typically you use this for 4 corners left and in very rare cases for 5.
For 6 including a twist I suggest building another skeleton


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## Sebastien (May 18, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> For 6 including a twist I suggest building another skeleton



No! I got very good results already with 6 or 7 corners left needing 3 insertions (including the currently leading solution of this weeks forum competition). Just don't be so afraid!


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## CubeRoots (May 18, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> No! I got very good results already with 6 or 7 corners left needing 3 insertions (including the currently leading solution of this weeks forum competition). Just don't be so afraid!



just out of curiosity, how do _you_ go about doing more than one insertion? do you have a general strategy to try and find the most cancelations or do you just try a bunch of different options?


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## Cubenovice (May 18, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> No! I got very good results already with 6 or 7 corners left needing 3 insertions (including the currently leading solution of this weeks forum competition). Just don't be so afraid!



I know you have used three insertions before but I don't think you did this on a 25 HTM skeleton


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## Sebastien (May 18, 2013)

CubeRoots said:


> just out of curiosity, how do _you_ go about doing more than one insertion? do you have a general strategy to try and find the most cancelations or do you just try a bunch of different options?



I wrote about this not too long ago: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=842689&viewfull=1#post842689



Cubenovice said:


> I know you have used three insertions before but I don't think you did this on a 25 HTM skeleton



well, true.


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## CubeRoots (May 19, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> I wrote about this not too long ago



congrats on the 23 you got (and the 25) http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=201&cat=15&rnd=1

could you share the scramble?


----------



## irontwig (May 19, 2013)

For some reason I can't see my solution for FMC #450 on Fredlund's site, so I'll just write it here:

Scramble: U2 R2 B' U L' U' B U L R' B' F L2 U F2 U F U R' F2 B2 D' L' F' B' R2 B2 F U' R2

F2 R' F' U' B L' D' L D B' L' F' D2 B F L R D2 L' D' R' D F2 (23)

F2 R' F' U' [Pseudo 2x2x2]
B L' D' L D B' L' B [F2L-1]
.R D' R' D F2 [Leaving four edges]

At dot insert H-perm: B' F' D2 B F L R D2 L' R' (Four moves cancel)

iirc found in about 30-40 minutes.


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## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

irontwig said:


> For some reason I can't see my solution for FMC #450 on Fredlund's site, so I'll just write it here:
> 
> Scramble: U2 R2 B' U L' U' B U L R' B' F L2 U F2 U F U R' F2 B2 D' L' F' B' R2 B2 F U' R2
> 
> ...



Something is very wrong with posting the results. Nice solution you found! I had a 36 moves solution. 25 move all but 6 corners and 3 inserts with 13 moves cancelled. Round 451 is a nice scramble I think. I have found a great start in two minutes.


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## guusrs (May 19, 2013)

Wow Sebastien, 23 moves is great! 
Do you have the scramble for us?
Gus



CubeRoots said:


> congrats on the 23 you got (and the 25) http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=201&cat=15&rnd=1
> 
> could you share the scramble?


----------



## mycube (May 19, 2013)

first scramble:
B L2 R2 D2 U2 F' U2 F' R F2 D R' U' L U' L2 F2 U2 L2
and second scramble:
D2 L' D2 R' D2 U2 R D2 F' U' F' D B2 D' F' L2 R' B' U2


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## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

Can anyone help me with the following:

I want to cycle two edges in the same face. Let's say solved cube white on U and green on F:

R U R' U R U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R U' R'

Now white/orange and white/red have been swapped. Is there a shorter way to do this?


----------



## Cubenovice (May 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Can anyone help me with the following:
> 
> I want to cycle two edges in the same face. Let's say solved cube white on U and green on F:
> 
> ...



not quite sure what you are getting at but: F2 U2 F2 U2 F2 U2 swaps the same edges
side effect is another edge swap though.

ah...
you have finished F2L-1, oriented edges and are now facing an edge swap 

There is a 10 mover: y R' F R' u2 R F' R' u2 R2 F' that swaps the edges and two U face corners

there is also the optimal T perm 

You can also try to insert these in the skeleton somewhere and the advantage is that you can also use the optimal J-perms


----------



## CubeRoots (May 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Can anyone help me with the following:
> 
> I want to cycle two edges in the same face. Let's say solved cube white on U and green on F:
> 
> ...



Tperm would be better than that

I'm not sure what is optimal for it. I try avoid it completely I hate this case for solving edges

edit: ninja'd


----------



## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

Thanks CubeNovice and Cuberoots. Let me show you..

Warming, MustCube 451 OnGoing


Spoiler



MustCube 451: L' F2 U R2 F2 U D' B' U' L D2 U' F2 R2 B R' D2 L R D2 U' B U' F2 U2 R' U' F R' L 

pre move R'

L2 U L' R U' Pseudo 2 X 2 X 2
D2 B L' U B' U' Huh.. looks good
R D' R' D B Ahh only these two freaking egdes..



CubeNovice , can you explain a little further how J-perm can be of use? Oh wait... I think I get it. When I sticker the four egdes, I could find them earlier in the solve and then ... no .. I don't get it. How is the J-perm (no two edges swap) going to help?


----------



## Cubenovice (May 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Thanks CubeNovice and Cuberoots. Let me show you..
> 
> CubeNovice , can you explain a little further how J-perm can be of use? Oh wait... I think I get it. When I sticker the four egdes, I could find them earlier in the solve and then ... no .. I don't get it. How is the J-perm (no two edges swap) going to help?



oooh Marcel!
My eyes!

Ongoing competitions must be under a spoiler tag and carry a warning 

T-perm swaps opposite edges (and two corners)
J-perms swaps adjecent edges (and two corners)

For inserting the edge swap you would sticker the two edges and (in this particular case) the one corner that is solved.
You can now go trough your solution and find a place where you have the edges opposite (insert optimal T perm or the alg I posted) or adjecent (insert optimal J-perm). In you particular case you want to make sure that the stickered corner is not involved in the swapping alg: you do not want to "unsolve" it.

BTW your skeleton also has two corners twisted in place so you still have a lot to solve!
but you have two swapped corners in there so with a little luck the right T-perm or J-perm you can solve four pieces at one time.

Cheers


----------



## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> oooh Marcel!
> 
> 
> Ongoing competitions must be under a spoiler tag and carry a warning



LOL, I am sorry about that. I guess my 40 - 50 move solutions is not going to help you FMC-gods anything.. LOL Thanks for the explanation.. I am going to do just that now..


----------



## Cubenovice (May 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> LOL, I am sorry about that. I guess my 40 - 50 move solutions is not going to help you FMC-gods anything.. LOL Thanks for the explanation.. I am going to do just that now..



no worries 

BTW in your skeleton you can swap the edges AND solve two corners with the u2 alg I posted 
But it needs one set up move so it takes you 12 moves...

Ah.. and all the way at the end you can use it to swap the two twisted corners in 10 moves thx to a cancellation on D


----------



## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> Ah.. and all the way at the end you can use it to swap the two twisted corners in 10 moves thx to a cancellation on D



Yeah thanks, but I found that one out myself with a different alg. R2 U' R2 D B2 L2 U L2 D' B2


----------



## Cubenovice (May 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yeah thanks, but I found that one out myself with a different alg. R2 U' R2 D B2 L2 U L2 D' B2 [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> why uise a T-perm if you can use a cooler alg


----------



## CubeRoots (May 19, 2013)

mycube said:


> and second scramble:
> D2 L' D2 R' D2 U2 R D2 F' U' F' D B2 D' F' L2 R' B' U2



ooooh just looked, lots of nice starts there  will try tomorow


----------



## Sebastien (May 20, 2013)

CubeRoots said:


> congrats on the 23 you got (and the 25) http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=201&cat=15&rnd=1
> 
> could you share the scramble?





guusrs said:


> Wow Sebastien, 23 moves is great!
> Do you have the scramble for us?
> Gus



Thanks! I'm very happy to have eventually beaten my official PB of 24 that I set 2.5 years ago when I was by far worse in FMC than nowadays. Also now I'm 2nd in Germany again! 

Scrambles and my solutions from this weekend:

1st attempt: B L2 R2 D2 U2 F' U2 F' R F2 D R' U' L U' L2 F2 U2 L2

Lösung: 25 moves


Spoiler



Premove: B'
2x2x2: R' D2 R U2
More blocks: U' R U
switch and L4C: B R' F' D F R2 F' R' F R D' F D'

Skeleton: R' D2 R U R U D F' * D R' F' R F R2 F' D' F # R B'

No great start, but great cancelations (optimal):

* = F D' B' D F' D' B D (5 Move)
# = F' R B R' F R B' R' (5 Move)

Solution: R' D2 R U R U B' D F' D' B D2 R' F' R F R2 F' D' R B R' F R B2

25 moves.




2nd attempt: D2 L' D2 R' D2 U2 R D2 F' U' F' D B2 D' F' L2 R' B' U2

Lösung: 23 moves


Spoiler



2x2x3 on Inverse: B2 R' F' D B
F2L-1: F2 D' F
More Blocks: F D2 F'
switch and L3C: D F D' F' D R' D' R D'

Skeleton: D F D' F' D R' D' R D' F D2 F2 D F2 B' * D' F R B2

* = F2 D' B' D F2 D' B D gives 4 move Cancelation (optimal)

Solution: D F D' F' D R' D' R D' F D2 F2 D B' D' B' D F2 D' B F R B2

23 moves.

I had the solution afters 10-15 minutes. So many possibilities and great beginnings! I couldn't do better though within one hour. I'm curious if someone finds a better solution for this scramble! 




3rd attempt: F2 R2 B2 F D2 L2 D2 F' R2 D' R' F' D F U' R2 B U' L2 U

Lösung: 30 moves


Spoiler



Premoves: U'
Pseudo-2x2x3: D L D' L2 B2 L'
More blocks: D2 R D' R2
switch und F2L-1: U B R' D' R'
L3C: D F D' F D2 F2 D' F2 D' F2

Skeleton: D L D' L2 B2 L' D2 * R D' R2 F2 D F2 D F2 D2 F' D F' D' R D R B' U'

* = D2 L' U L D2 L' U' L

Solution: D L D' L2 B2 L2 U L D2 L' U' L R D' R2 F2 D F2 D F2 D2 F' D F' D' R D R B' U'

30 moves.

Bad attempt, especially seen the decent start. I was probably too exhausted that Sunday morning to be fully concentrated. The fact that I just found a 28 move solution with block-commutator finish only while writing this solution down is confirm this. But...whatever! 



Mean of 3: 25, 23, 30 = 26.0

After getting the 23 I had the following average of 12 out of official attempts:

26, 26, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, 30, (DNF), 28, 25, (23) = 26.8

Sub 27! :confused: I really doubt that I will be able to do that again.


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## irontwig (May 20, 2013)

My 28 was imo pretty boring, so I think I'll post my weird 3-edge skeleton for the third scramble:

D' R' U' L2 [2x2x2]

Switch to inverse:

U B2 R U2 R2 L' B2 L [Pseudo F2L-edge]
L' D L D' B' D' B D [Putting corners in the 6 move case]
D' B' D' R D R' B D B' R' [Leaving three edges]

This gives a 23 move skeleton: D' R' U' L2 R B D' B' R*D' R' D2 B D L' D' B2 L R2 U2 R'.B2 U'

Due to a shortage of time, nerves and experience with edges insertions the best I could find was .= R U' R U D' F' U F U' D, while IF suggests *=R D R' L B' R' B R L' D', which is just one move better for 31.


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## irontwig (May 26, 2013)

Still problems with Frelund's site, here's my solution to #451:

F' U' L B' U2 B2 D B U2 B' D' B R U L D' L U2 R D R D2 R2 D' R' D R D' (28)

F' U' L B' U2 B' [EO+square]
U2.R U L D' L U2 [2x2x3] 
R D R D2 R2 D' R' D R D' [Leaving three corners]

Insert at dot: U2 B' D B U2 B' D' B (Three moves cancel)


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## guusrs (May 26, 2013)

I had the same problem with Pers site this week (#451).

For 1 hour I had almost the same solve as Tomoaki had, without using Niss and using that same J-perm insertion.

But for his 18th till 24th move I did:

R2 B' D B D' R'


Which results in 25 moves (-;


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## TheNextFeliks (May 26, 2013)

I have tried fmc and niss. I got one skeleton with 26 moves. Then I got a pi oll which resulted in a u perm. So 20 move last layer. So 46. Not bad. Do you have any tips for improving ll?


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## mycube (May 26, 2013)

how about the solution? ^^


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## TheNextFeliks (May 26, 2013)

mycube said:


> how about the solution? ^^



Um. No. It was on my computer. Then I had to turn it off so lost it and scramble.


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## mycube (May 26, 2013)

so it's nearly impossible to help you with beginner stuff.


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## TheNextFeliks (May 26, 2013)

mycube said:


> so it's nearly impossible to help you with beginner stuff.



Yeah. I'll do another in a bit and post it.


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## okayama (May 26, 2013)

Hi, I'm now at Helsinki Airport, waiting the next flight to Estonia.
There's a free Wi-fi, nice. 

About submission problem at fmc.mustcube.net: now I firmly believe that my expectation is true;
the problem is caused by the missing backslash (\) before prime (') in comments (not solution).
At FMC450 and FMC451, I inserted backslashes manually in the comments (not in solution).
I recommend you to do the same thing until Per addresses this problem and makes some announcement.



guusrs said:


> I had the same problem with Pers site this week (#451).
> 
> For 1 hour I had almost the same solve as Tomoaki had, without using Niss and using that same J-perm insertion.
> 
> ...


Agh, I feel bad about not bringing my cube with me (packing into my suitcase).
I will see your continuation after arrival.


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## Username (May 26, 2013)

okayama said:


> Hi, I'm now at Helsinki Airport, waiting the next flight to Estonia.
> There's a free Wi-fi, nice.
> 
> About submission problem at fmc.mustcube.net: now I firmly believe that my expectation is true;
> ...



Why are you in Helsinki, if I may ask?


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## okayama (May 26, 2013)

Username said:


> Why are you in Helsinki, if I may ask?


I will attend an academic conference held in Tartu, Estonia.
I just transfer at Helsinki, but waiting time is 4 hours, so I just relax and surf the web.


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## irontwig (May 26, 2013)

okayama said:


> About submission problem at fmc.mustcube.net: now I firmly believe that my expectation is true;
> the problem is caused by the missing backslash (\) before prime (') in comments (not solution).
> At FMC450 and FMC451, I inserted backslashes manually in the comments (not in solution).
> I recommend you to do the same thing until Per addresses this problem and makes some announcement.



Ok, I'll try that, found a quite lucky 30 mover for the linear scramble.


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## TheNextFeliks (May 26, 2013)

My attempt at the new round on fmc.mustcube.net. It is very bad. Tried to do niss in beginning but I am bad at it.


Spoiler: Warning! Round Still Going On



Scramble: D2 U B R D2 F' U L D' B L2 U' L' D2 B2 U2 F D2 U2 F' U' R' D2 F' D2 F' U R2 B2 D' 
Solution: B L R D2 U B2 U2 B2 U2 L' U L B' U B U' B' U B R U2 R' U R' F R U2 F' U' F U' R U' R' F D R' B' R' B R2 D' F2 U2
B L R D2 U B2 U2 B2 //XCROSS [8/8]
U2 L' U L //PAIR 2 [4/12]
B' U B U' B' U B //PAIR 3 [7/19]
R U2 R' U R' F R (F' //PAIR 4 [7/26]
F) U2 F' U' F U' (F' //OLL [5/31]
F) R U' R' F D R' B' R' B R2 D' F2 U2 //PLL [13/44]



Tried zz after niss but this was about 5 moves less. Any tips? Not very good. One of first fmc attempts.


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## irontwig (May 26, 2013)

Starting with a xcross is a bad idea most of the time. Also you shouldn't use OLL and PLL for LL, but rather trying to leave three corners with a short alg and doing a corner commutator. In fact your LL was just 4 corners and could be could solved with 


Spoiler



these two corner comms:
F R' F' L F R F' L'
L' B L F' L' B' L F
U'

Which cancels nicely with your last slot for a 37 move total


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## TheNextFeliks (May 26, 2013)

irontwig said:


> Starting with a xcross is a bad idea most of the time. Also you shouldn't use OLL and PLL for LL, but rather trying to leave three corners with a short alg and doing a corner commutator. In fact your LL was just 4 corners and could be could solved with
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



I should have done comms. Idk how I forgot. Will do another later. I'll try blockbuilding more.


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## MarcelP (May 26, 2013)

I got stuck at the weekly comp 21 

warning, ungoing competition


Spoiler



Scramble F' D R' U L B' U2 L F' U D2 B' U2 R2 B' R2 B R2 B2 U2 B'

Pre move F' L2 (2)

R D L' D2 //2 X 2 X 1 (6)
L' U // ANOTHER 2 X 2 X 1 (8) 

L U R B2 R' L U F2 R U' R' // F2L -1 (19)

EDIT: I have found this after F2L -1 but that is waaay to many moves:



EDIT :



Spoiler



3x3x3 Fewest Moves
1. F' D R' U L B' U2 L F' U D2 B' U2 R2 B' R2 B R2 B2 U2 B'

Pre move F' L2 (2)

R D L' D2 //2 X 2 X 1 (6)
L' U // ANOTHER 2 X 2 X 2 (8) 

L U R (@1) B2 R' L U F2 R U' R' // F2l -1 (19)
F U2 F' U F U' F' U' L' U L U2 // (33) all but 3 corners and two egdes

@1 L U L' D L U' L' D' // 3 CORNER CYCLE

Now I am stuck with two freaning edges.. LOL. How do I go about to fix that? I know edges cycles cost a lot of moves


Any tips appreciated.


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## TheNextFeliks (May 27, 2013)

Scramble: F' U2 R2 B L2 R2 F R2 F L2 R2 U L' D B D' F' U' R F' U'
My solution: L2 F L U' L' B' L2 D2 B2 D' L B' L' B' L B R B' L B' R2 B L2 B' R2 B2 D' R' D' R D' R' B' D' B L2 D 37 moves
Inverse with premoves L B L' D B2 D2 L2 B L U L' F' L2
D' //NICE CONTINUE [1/1]
L2//F2L-1 [1/2]
B' D B //[3/5] ORIENT
R D R' D R D (R' //[6/11]EDGES
R) (B' B') R2 B L2 B' R2 B (L2 L) B R' B' L' B//[13/24]4 CORNERS 
L B L' D B2 D2 L2 B L U L' F' L2 //[13/37]correction
Any tips? used insertion finder for the insertion.


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## irontwig (May 28, 2013)

After your F2L-1 you could've left three corners like this:

B' D B D2 R [EO+Pseudo F2L]
L D L' D L D2 L' D [Sune to leave three corners]
R' [Undo psuedoness]

Edit:
My quick attempt on the same scramble:

B' F2 R U' F B' D B L' F L R' D' R F D B D' F2 D B' F D F' U' F D2 F' U' (29)

B' F2 R U' [2x2x2]
F B' D B [2x2x3]
L' F L R' D' R [EO]
F' D:F D'.F' U2 [Leaving four corners]

.=D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F 
:=D' F2 D B D' F2 D B'

I didn't even bother to go through the whole skeleton, as I work from the end I found two good enough insertions just a few moves in.


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## Iggy (May 30, 2013)

My first ever attempt with NISS.

Scramble: L2 U2 F2 R' B2 F2 R D2 U' L2 R2 F' L' U2 B2 F' D2 L' R2 F' L D2 U R2 D'
My solution: R' U' F' D R2 D' B R' B2 R' B2 U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 B' U' B2 U' F' U B2 U' F U2 D B' D' L B' L' B D' B (38)

2x2x3 block: R' U' F' D R2 D' B R'
Switch to inverse: (Premoves: R B' D R2 D' F U R)
F2L-1: B' D B' L B L'
Orient edges: D B D'
Switch to normal: (Premoves: D B' D' L B' L' B D' B)
F2L-1: R' U' F' D R2 D' B R'
F2L: B2 R' B2 R
Edges + 1 corner: R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 B'
Corner commutator: U' B2 U' F' U B2 U' F U2

38 is good for me, but definitely isn't the best. Tips are greatly appreciated.


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## irontwig (May 30, 2013)

Don't switch too much though, it can be a waste of time, found this straightforward continuation after your 2x2x3:

R' U' F' D R2 D' B R' [Your 2x2x3]
D2 B2 L'.D2 L [F2L-1]
B' D' B' D [F2L]
U B U' B U B2 U' [CLL]

.=L D' L' D2 U2 R D R' D2 U2

R' U' F' D R2 D' B R' D2 B2 D' L' D2 U2 R D R' U2 L B' D' B' D U B U' B U B2 U' (30)

Also solving the LL optimally is easy:
U B U' B U*B2 U' 
*=U2 L' U2 F2 D2 R' D2 F2


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## mycube (May 30, 2013)

2x2x3 block: R' U' F' D R2 D' B R'
Switch to inverse: (Premoves: R B' D R2 D' F U R)
F2L-1: B' D B' L B L'
Orient edges: D B D'
switch:
F2L: B2 R' B2 R B'

So your skeleton is:
R' U' F' D R2 D' B R' B2 R' B2 R B' D B' D' L B' L' B D' B
so you have to do two insertions  IF says optimal is a movecount of 32

Edit: ninja'd from erik with a better solution.


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## Ninja Storm (May 30, 2013)

I don't know anything about FMC, its terminology, or what the basic methods are. Are there any links for a n00b to get started?


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## irontwig (May 30, 2013)

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Fewest_Moves_techniques

And study a bunch of solves.


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## okayama (Jun 1, 2013)

My winning solution from Japan Open 2013.

Scramble: U B U F R D L U L' U' R' U' D2 F2 U' L2 U' L2 D2
Solution: U' R U D L' U2 L D R' F2 R D' L2 B' U' B U' L U L2 U' L' U' L' U D2 R F' U B' U' (31 moves)


Spoiler



Here is my 30 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: D L U2 L2 D' R'

1x2x2 block: U B
1x2x3 block: U' F *
More square: R'
F2L minus 1 slot: D2 L D' U
Finish F2L: U R' U' R
All but 3 corners: L' B' D' B D L
Correction: D L U2 L2 D' R'

Insert at *: B2 D' F' D B2 D' F D (Huh!? no cancel????)

The best I could do in the remaining time was as follows.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L2 D' U' R' U

1x2x2 block: U B
1x2x3 block: U' F
2x2x3 block: R' D2
More square: U' L
More square: U L U
Finish F2L: L2 U' L' U B' U B
LL: L2 D R' F2 R D' L' U2 L'
Correction: L2 D' U' R' U


I'm very ashamed that I couldn't achieve (even) Sub 30 for this looks-nice scramble. :fp :fp :fp


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## guusrs (Jun 1, 2013)

HI 
Don't be ashamed Tomoaki, we all suffer from hard scrambles these days:
Today Eindhoven open was very hard: D' U' F2 L2 U' B2 L2 U R2 U' R U L' D2 F' U B U' L2 B' U
There are 11 "bad" pairs in it.
My result: 33 moves, but anyway the name Guus was on the top of the results 
Guus de Wit won with a PB of 29 moves, an excellent solve for such an scramble.
Can anyone sub-30 on this?


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## irontwig (Jun 1, 2013)

okayama said:


> My winning solution from Japan Open 2013.
> 
> Scramble: U B U F R D L U L' U' R' U' D2 F2 U' L2 U' L2 D2
> Solution: U' R U D L' U2 L D R' F2 R D' L2 B' U' B U' L U L2 U' L' U' L' U D2 R F' U B' U' (31 moves)
> ...



No sub-30 (in HTM), but here's my attempt:

B U' D F D R' U2 L' B' L B R B' L' B D' R' L' B2 L2 F L F' L2 F L F' L2 B2 R' (30)

B U' D F [EO]
D [Inserted move]
R' U2 [Pseudo X-cross+3x1 line]
L'.R D' R' L' B2 [Pseudo F2L-1 corner]
L2 F L F' L2 F L F' L2 [Leaving three corners]
B2 R' [Pseudoness]

.=B' L B R B' L' B R'

There's probably a better way of finishing this up.


----------



## Iggy (Jun 2, 2013)

My shortest attempt so far:

Scramble: L' R2 D' B2 U B L R' U' B2 U' L2 U2 L2 R' B' D' B D' U' L2 R' U2 L2 F'
My solution: U L' D' R2 U B D2 B' U' B D B' L' U2 L2 F' L U' L U L' U' L2 U L2 U2 L U L2 U' L2 (31)

2x2x2: U L' D' R2 B * D' B'
2x2x3: L' U2 L2 F'
(switch to inverse)
F2L-1: L2 U L2 U' L' U2
(switch to normal)
All edges except 3: L U' L2 U
Leaving 3 corners: U' L' U L' U' L2 U L2 (2 cancellations)
Undo premoves: U2 L U L2 U' L2

*= B' U B D2 B' U' B D2 (2 cancellations)

Not bad. Tips are appreciated.


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## Attila (Jun 2, 2013)

FMC round452.

Scramble: D2 U B R D2 F' U L D' B L2 U' L' D2 B2 U2
F D2 U2 F' U' R' D2 F' D2 F' U R2 B2 D'

Solution:
F2 U' R2 U' R F B' L B R2 L2 F R' L2 F2 D R2 L2 U' B2 L D2 R L'B2 25 moves.
Explanation: 
F2 U' R2 U' R F B' orient corners, and 2 edges,
added premoves F2 B2, more 3 edges,
L B R2 L2 F all corners, more 1 edge,
R' L2 F2 D R2 L2 U' B2 L D2 R L' F2 L6E.

Another solution:
F2 U L' R F2 R2 B' D R B R' B F' U F2 B L2 F' B' U' R L' B D2 R2 25 moves.
Explanation:
F2 U L' R F2 R2 B' D R orient corners, and 5 edges,
B R' B F' U more 1 edge,
F2 B L2 F' B' U' R L' B D2 R2 L6E.


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## solvelecewbe (Jun 2, 2013)

I want to start fmc, i know nothing about it. Does anyone know of a page that explains all this pre-scramble commutator insertion skeleton stuff?


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## irontwig (Jun 2, 2013)

Attila said:


> FMC round452.
> 
> Scramble: D2 U B R D2 F' U L D' B L2 U' L' D2 B2 U2
> F D2 U2 F' U' R' D2 F' D2 F' U R2 B2 D'
> ...



Excellent solutions, next time you can try to write \' instead of ' in the comments. It worked for me for the 1h scramble, it didn't for the 10 minute one though for whatever reason, so here it is:

Scramble: B2 R2 L2 D2 B' U R D2 B U F2 U' L' D' B2 F U R B2 D2 B' F D' R2 F L' R F2 U' F

D' F2 [Square]
R2 D' [Moving pairs out of harm's way]
L' D' L' [2x2x2]
R2 F2 U [2x2x3 minus one move]
F U2 F R' U' [F2L-1]
R2 U' B' R B U [Finishing F2L and leaving three corners]
F2 D2 F U2 F' D2 F U2 F [Last three corners] (30)


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## Attila (Jun 2, 2013)

irontwig said:


> next time you can try to write \' instead of ' in the comments.


OK, thanks!


----------



## okayama (Jun 2, 2013)

irontwig said:


> Excellent solutions, next time you can try to write \' instead of ' in the comments. It worked for me for the 1h scramble, it didn't for the 10 minute one though for whatever reason, so here it is:
> 
> Scramble: B2 R2 L2 D2 B' U R D2 B U F2 U' L' D' B2 F U R B2 D2 B' F D' R2 F L' R F2 U' F
> 
> ...


I think you forgot to insert \ before the red color *'* (just my guess, though).

The workaround is quite a pain and I really hope that the problem will be solved in a proper way.
Can anyone contact Per...? He still does not make any response to my private message,
so he may not notice this problem.


----------



## Cubenovice (Jun 2, 2013)

solvelecewbe said:


> I want to start fmc, i know nothing about it. Does anyone know of a page that explains all this pre-scramble commutator insertion skeleton stuff?



How bout reading the very first post of the page your question is on?


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## mycube (Jun 2, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> How bout reading the very first post of the page your question is on?



or reading the first post of page 188 from irontwig. it's exactly what you want.


----------



## Cubenovice (Jun 2, 2013)

mycube said:


> or reading the first post of page 188 from irontwig. it's exactly what you want.



His question *is* on page 188


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 2, 2013)

Attempt at new fmc.mustcube.net round.


Spoiler: Warning Comp Still in Progress!!!!!!



Scramble:U2 R' L U2 B2 L' B L2 B' U F2 L2 R' D U2 L D2 F D B' L2 B U2 B2 U2 D F B2 L' R'
Solution: R' U L2 U' R U B U L U L B' U2 D' F2 D B D' F2 D R' U' R U2 B U2 B' D2 R D'
[@1] U L2 B U L U L B' [@2] U2 B R' U' R U2 B U2 B' D2 R D'
Insert at @1: R' U L2 U' R U L2 U'
Insert at @2: D' F2 D B D' F2 D B'


Pretty straight forward. used insertion finder for insertions. I need to try without. 30 htm. PB! Any critique?


----------



## mycube (Jun 2, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Attempt at new fmc.mustcube.net round.
> 
> [/spoiler]
> Pretty straight forward. used insertion finder for insertions. I need to try without. 30 htm. PB! Any critique?



don't count this as a pb because of the IF


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 2, 2013)

mycube said:


> don't count this as a pb because of the IF



Ok. Still, only 20 move skeleton. Which is awesome for me.


----------



## Attila (Jun 2, 2013)

guusrs said:


> HI
> Don't be ashamed Tomoaki, we all suffer from hard scrambles these days:
> Today Eindhoven open was very hard: D' U' F2 L2 U' B2 L2 U R2 U' R U L' D2 F' U B U' L2 B' U
> There are 11 "bad" pairs in it.
> ...



My 70 mins. solution:

L2 R2 F2 L2 B' D' F2 R U' L U2 D2 R'
U2 F' D' L R' B U B2 U D' L2 D U' 26 HTM 21 STM moves.
Explanation:
premoves: F2 B2 
L2 R2 F2 L2 B' D' F2 R U all corners, and 4 edges,
U2 L U2 D2 R' more 2 edges,
U2 F' D' L R' B U B2 U D' L2 D U' L6E, both premoves cancel.


----------



## guusrs (Jun 3, 2013)

Attila said:


> My 70 mins. solution:
> 
> L2 R2 F2 L2 B' D' F2 R U' L U2 D2 R'
> U2 F' D' L R' B U B2 U D' L2 D U' 26 HTM 21 STM moves.
> ...



woooooow, that's amazing Attila!


----------



## irontwig (Jun 5, 2013)

Recently I've done quite a few solves starting with orientating all the edges. It seems to me that approach is at least as good as starting with a 2x2x3 or might be even better, at least for me since I'm not super awesome at block building. But as been said before; restricting oneself to only one is approach is terribly limiting. Any thoughts?


----------



## MarcelP (Jun 5, 2013)

irontwig said:


> Recently I've done quite a few solves starting with orientating all the edges. It seems to me that approach is at least as good as starting with a 2x2x3 or might be even better, at least for me since I'm not super awesome at block building. Bus as been said before; restricting oneself to only one is approach is terribly limiting. Any thoughts?



Yes, I have been doing the same lately. However, I can get very nice frameworks with all edges in place in 20 - 30 moves, but then I always have too many corners out of place to make it a nice solution. So last few times I started with egdes first, then starting with block building and if all fails I find the shortest cross. In the end I always have too many moves LOL.


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## okayama (Jun 5, 2013)

irontwig said:


> Recently I've done quite a few solves starting with orientating all the edges. It seems to me that approach is at least as good as starting with a 2x2x3 or might be even better, at least for me since I'm not super awesome at block building. Bus as been said before; restricting oneself to only one is approach is terribly limiting. Any thoughts?


My opinion based on my experience is: EO-first is worth trying as `one' option.
After EO, it becomes relatively (sometimes surprisingly) easy to make c/e pairs and blocks.
See, for example, my solutions in FMC446, FMC447 and FMC450.

However, I also agree with Teemu's opinion:


Stini said:


> Sure it might occasionally bring good results, but correct EO doesn't really guarantee a short solution.


EO-first sometimes helps you, but sometimes not. So it is worth trying, but do not stick to.


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## mycube (Jun 5, 2013)

*Warning: Current weekly Competition 23! *



Spoiler



i found a 12 move F2L but I am not able do find a good solution with it. Someone able to find something better? 

on inverse: Pre: F2 
D‘ B L2 B2 U
R D‘ F D2 F
R‘ D


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## irontwig (Jun 5, 2013)

Decided to try the same scramble as the solution that Teemu commented on:

Scramble: B2 L' R F' U F' L' R2 U B2 R2 B' R2 U' L2 U2 L2

U B2 R2 B D' B2 U' L R B L2 B' R' B L2 B L2 R' U2 R L' U' L U' (24)

U B2 R2 B [EO+square+three pairs(!)]
D' B2 U' L2 [Pseudo 2x2x3 (pre-moves L U' instead of just L to save one and create two other pairs]
L'.B2 L2 R' U2 R L' U' [Leaving three corners]
L U' [Pre-moves]

.=R B L2 B' R' B L2 B'


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## Yuxuibbs (Jun 5, 2013)

Tips? (scramble is from weekly comp #22)

Scramble: L2 F U' L' U' R D' B' R' F U2 F2 R' F2 R U2 L' U2 R' D2 F2
Solution: R U' R L' B' U2 L U' L' D U2 R' U' R U R' F U F2 L F L' y R' F R F' U R U R' Fw' L' U' L U Fw U2 R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 (50)

R U' R L' B' U2 L U' L' D U2 R' // X cross and F2L 2 set up (12/12) 
U' R U R' // F2L 2 (4/16) 
F U F2 L F L' // F2L 3 (6/22) 
y R' F R F' U R U R' // F2L 4 (8/30) 
Fw' L' U' L U Fw // OLL (6/36) 
U2 R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 // PLL (14/50) 
http://tinyurl.com/algRU-RL-B-U2LU


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## irontwig (Jun 6, 2013)

okayama said:


> My opinion based on my experience is: EO-first is worth trying as `one' option.
> After EO, it becomes relatively (sometimes surprisingly) easy to make c/e pairs and blocks.
> See, for example, my solutions in FMC446, FMC447 and FMC450.



One can not help to notice that these are all "no time limit" solutions (or rather the time limit is one week) and that you only reduce to <R,L,U,D,F2,B2>. Any reason why you don't try this approach in the one hour format?


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## okayama (Jun 6, 2013)

irontwig said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > My opinion based on my experience is: EO-first is worth trying as `one' option.
> ...




I don't limit the reduction to only <R,L,U,D,F2,B2>. See FMC432 and FMC409 for another example.
I sometimes try EO-first approach in 1-hour too. See my solution in Japan Open 2012 and FMC416.


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 6, 2013)

I usually do a heise-like approach. Sometimes I cannot find a single square that would be decent. What should I do in this case? Also when I finish the f2l-1 I usually just orient and finish edges. That leaves about 5 corners sometimes 4 or 3. Finding two insertions can be tedious sometimes. How can I avoid that? Also, how to find insertions with lots of moves cancelling? Thanks.


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## irontwig (Jun 6, 2013)

okayama said:


> I don't limit the reduction to only <R,L,U,D,F2,B2>. See FMC432 and FMC409 for another example.
> I sometimes try EO-first approach in 1-hour too. See my solution in Japan Open 2012 and FMC416.



Fair enough, how often do you try doing EO first though, often or just when block building doesn't give any good results?


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## okayama (Jun 6, 2013)

irontwig said:


> Fair enough, how often do you try doing EO first though, often or just when block building doesn't give any good results?


I don't have any strategy at the moment.
Sometimes I try it first, sometimes I try it as a final option, sometimes I don't try it.

EDIT: this is my 300th post.


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## solvelecewbe (Jun 16, 2013)

scramble= L2 R2 F B U2 B F L' F' L2 D' R' U2 R' F U B' D' F' U2 L' B' R' L' U2

My first FMC attempt

solution= Cross: X2 R' D F' L2 U2 R' U' R2

F2L: U' L U' L' B' U2 B R U R' U2 F U' F' U R' F R F2 U F

OLL: Y' R2 D' R U2 R' D R U2 R

PLL: X' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D' F'

45 moves, any tips?

If you do an inverse scramble, do you write the inverse of the solution, or do you just say you used an inverse on the paper? Same with premoves?


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## Julian (Jun 16, 2013)

solvelecewbe said:


> If you do an inverse scramble, do you write the inverse of the solution, or do you just say you used an inverse on the paper? Same with premoves?


Your solution has to solve the given scramble. So you would give the inverse solution for an inverse scramble, and premoves you use end up going at the end of your solution.


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## solvelecewbe (Jun 16, 2013)

Julian said:


> Your solution has to solve the given scramble. So you would give the inverse solution for an inverse scramble, and premoves you use end up going at the end of your solution.



If premoves go on the end of the solution, wouldn't the cube end unsolved? Or does one solve the cube to a position where the premoves solve the cube?

EDIT: I looked at some solved and figured it out. thanks!


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## ryn ball (Jun 16, 2013)

Hello FMC thread!, FMC is really interesting so I gave it a try but I have 0% knowledge on techniques so at the moment I used ZZ method (my main method) to solve the cube in few moves as possible. Here is my try: 
scramble: D2 R' L B' U' B2 U2 R2 U R2 D2 R B' D2 B' L R' F' D U' L R2 D' R' D' (green front white top)
EOLine: L D B' D2 R' F'
F2L:
R
U' L' R U2 R
L' U L U' L U
R
L2 U L' U' L2 U' R' U L' 
LL: 
OLL: L U L' U L U2 L'
PLL: R2 U2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R U2 R2 (H perm) U' (auf)

total movecount: 47 HTM 

F2l seem's okey for me as intuition goes but my LL was so long and I have 0% knowledge on LL in terms of FMCs. Can you guys suggest some LL techniques in FMC? much better if you guys recontruct my LL in my solve above so that I have an idea on LL FMC.

Thanks!


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## solvelecewbe (Jun 16, 2013)

Im also a noob around here lol. Learn premoves first. With premoves, you perform moves before the scramble, then find the solution. Once again scramble the cube, but without the premoves. Execute the solution you have recorded, then perform the premove afterwards.

DO NOT inverse the premove when executing after the solve, perform the premove exactly as you did before the solve.

For last layer, mess around with f2l until you have a last layer case where all edges are oriented, (doesn't apply if you use ZZ) and when you orient the corners, you are left with the all edges or corners solved. Find a spot in the solve where you can insert a cycle that solves the pieces. This is known as an insertion. 

Try inverse scrambles. In an inverse scramble, you perform the scramble inversed ( example: the scramble is R L' D. Perform the scramble as D' L R'). Find the solution to the inverse scramble, then inverse that solution, for a solution that works on the real scramble. You can inverse and un-inverse several times throughout the solve. 

VERY IMPORTANT: Your solution must solve the original scramble, regardless of any techniques used. Hope this helps you!!

Don't use a main method, block build a 2x2x2 block, then expand that block to a 2x2x3, then finish f2l and orient all edges simultaniously.


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 16, 2013)

Will any fmc experts help me out walk through a solve? Basically go to http://webchat.freenode.net on channel #fmcgroup Thanks to those who will!


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## speedpicker (Jun 16, 2013)

solvelecewbe said:


> Don't use a main method, block build a 2x2x2 block, then expand that block to a 2x2x3, then finish f2l and orient all edges simultaniously.



I am also an FMC noob, so excuse my ignorance, but isnt this just Petrus?


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## solvelecewbe (Jun 17, 2013)

Almost. But in FMC its more efficient to solve all the edges from the 2x2x3 then do an insertion. Its petrus, but you solve all the edged then find an insertion. And you don't use pseudo blocks in petrus.

From the Wiki: "A very powerful technique in FMC is to solve everything except 3-5 corners and then insert 8 move commutators that cycle three corners earlier in the solution. Since there many corner configurations that can be solved in 8 moves often one will cancel moves, and thus one corner cycle will add less than 8 moves to the total solution length. Edge cycles are not used as often since FMC is judged in HTM and edge cycles often involve slice moves that are counted as two moves. Some people use stickers to more easily track the unsolved pieces through the solution."


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 17, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Will any fmc experts help me out walk through a solve? Basically go to http://webchat.freenode.net on channel #fmcgroup Thanks to those who will!



Can anyone come now?


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## irontwig (Jun 17, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Can anyone come now?



Can't see how did would be too helpful, just look through a bunch of solutions. If there's stuff you don't understand you're more than welcome to ask questions here, but if you're not willing to do some thinking and figuring out on your own FMC might not be the event for you.


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 17, 2013)

irontwig said:


> Can't see how did would be too helpful, just look through a bunch of solutions. If there's stuff you don't understand you're more than welcome to ask questions here, but if you're not willing to do some thinking and figuring out on your own FMC might not be the event for you.



Ok. I'll just keep doing solves and asking for help on some. The point was like, I take a scramble then I find stuff step by step and you can critique as I go along. But w/e. It's fine. I should look through some good solutions from Okayama and Sebastien. I am willing to figure it out. How can you find insertions? I can get like a skeleton with 3-5 corners but can't figure how to do insertion so they cancel.


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## irontwig (Jun 17, 2013)

There's nothing special really, you just sticker the pieces and go through the skeleton one move at a time.


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## MarcelP (Jun 17, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> How can you find insertions? I can get like a skeleton with 3-5 corners but can't figure how to do insertion so they cancel.



That was the hard part for me too. I have been tought by someone who knows FMC pretty well.. What we did:

-Take a solved cube. 
-Perform a pure commuctator (an 8 move commutator) and write down the moves.
-sticker the three corners with 1,2,3 (obviously 1 on the sticker that needs to go to the place of sticker with number 2 and so on).
-generate an easy scramble like F2, R, U, D2, B, F, L R2, U2
-On a solved cube perform the inverse commutator that you wrote down (these will be pre moves).
-then perform the easy scramble as inverse.
Now you can use the easy scramble F2, R, U, D2, B, F, L R2, U2 to solve the cube leaving three misplaced corners.
So you can do that again and again and now at each step of the 'solution' you can look for the three corners. If two are in the same layer and on is in 'top' layer you can do a pure commutator. If you find the three pieces that are indeed two in same layer and one on top, you must find the face that does the turn (I can't remember the name). You only have to write down the three steps in front of the turn because the steps after the turn are the reverse of these steps.. That way you can explore quite a few options in a short time. Hope it makes sence..


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## Username (Jun 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> That was the hard part for me too. I have been tought by someone who knows FMC pretty well.. What we did:
> 
> -Take a solved cube.
> -Perform a pure commuctator (an 8 move commutator) and write down the moves.
> ...



Helped me atleast! Thanks


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> That was the hard part for me too. I have been tought by someone who knows FMC pretty well.. What we did:
> 
> -Take a solved cube.
> -Perform a pure commuctator (an 8 move commutator) and write down the moves.
> ...



That's helpful. Thanks. Do you just buy numbered stickers? Or how do you number them?


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## MarcelP (Jun 17, 2013)

Username said:


> Helped me atleast! Thanks



With 'You only have to write down the three steps in front of the turn ' I mean you will have to write down the whole commutator, but you only have to perform the three moves for the turn  Hard to explain in writings...


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## Username (Jun 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> With 'You only have to write down the three steps in front of the turn ' I mean you will have to write down the whole commutator, but you only have to perform the three moves for the turn  Hard to explain in writings...



Like this? [R U R', D]


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## whauk (Jun 17, 2013)

ryn ball said:


> Hello FMC thread!, FMC is really interesting so I gave it a try but I have 0% knowledge on techniques so at the moment I used ZZ method (my main method) to solve the cube in few moves as possible. Here is my try:
> scramble: D2 R' L B' U' B2 U2 R2 U R2 D2 R B' D2 B' L R' F' D U' L R2 D' R' D' (green front white top)
> EOLine: L D B' D2 R' F'
> F2L:
> ...



notice that the bolded part cancels to U2. and if you use L R U2 L' R' F B U2 F' B' as H-perm some more moves will cancel and your solution becomes sth like 40 which is very decent for a beginner.


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## MarcelP (Jun 17, 2013)

Username said:


> Like this? [R U R', D]



hmmmm let me see. Take a solved cube. white on U and green on F

Do 

R U R' D R U' R' D'

Now three corners are misplaced. If you where to find this stickered in the middle of a solution you would have to determine the 'turn' (I still don't know the correct term) face. If you look at the RED/GREEN/YELLOW corner you will notice that in one move (D) it will be in spot of the second misplaced corner. So D is the 'turn' face.

So solution in this case starts with turn face and then three steps.

D R U R' 
The finish would be the reverse of this: D' R U' R' But since you are only exploring oppertunities and you are in the middle of your solution you know with the first 4 steps if you have a cancellation. So no need to write down complete commutator, but instead you un do the 4 steps that you did to find out if the commutator has cancellations at this spot and you go to the next move in the solution and look at the stickers. Makes sence?


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## kinch2002 (Jun 17, 2013)

As an aside, I posted a massive load of FM stats here.


Cambridge Open 2013: L R D2 L2 R' U2 R' F2 U' R2 B R' F U R F2 L2 R B'

My 31 move solution (nothing special I know, but I like to post my solutions )


Spoiler



Inverse scramble
2x2x2: L' U' L2 F' (4) _An obvious similar 4 mover exists, but this one worked out better for me_
2x2x3: R' D2 R B' D (9)
Switch to Normal with premoves D' B R' D2 R F L2 U L
Pseudo F2L: R' U' B U R B2 R (16)
Leave 3 corners: L' D' R D' R' D2 L B R2 (25) _This is just an OLL lol_
Skeleton: R' U' B U R B2 L' * R D' R D' R' D2 L B R2 D' B R' D2 R F L2 U L _Note I've switched the L' and R round because the insertion requires them to be that way round_
Insert U L2 U' R U L2 U' R' at * to cancel 2 moves. 25 + 8 - 2 = 31 moves
I don't feel like it's a great solution when I finish F2L then have to do another alg like that. 17 move F2L (including fixing pseudo-ness) is good imo, but 31 moves isn't so great.


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## MaeLSTRoM (Jun 17, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> Cambridge Open 2013: L R D2 L2 R' U2 R' F2 U' R2 B R' F U R F2 L2 R B'



My 33 move solution:


Spoiler



Inverse scramble: 
L' U' L2 F' (2x2x2)(4/4)
R' D2 R B' R' D (2x2x3) (6/10)
Switch to forward scramble premoves: (D' R B R' D2 R F L2 U L):
B' R U' B2 U R2
Meant to solve square but ended up with the 1x2x3 block as a bonus, so 16 move pseudo F2L
Due to pseudo, added an R' premove before other premoves to solve, and continued on forward scramble:
R B R2 U R U2 B U B2 (9) Flip the 2 edges in place, and twist corners as the side effect
Then B to place square. This leaves 3 corners (A per special case if solved at the end I believe)
Skeleton: B' R U' B2 U R' B R2 U R U2 B U B' R D' R * B R' D2 R F L2 U L
At *: F2 R B' R' F2 R B R'
16+9+8=33
This was the first insertion I found, and I ran out of time to find cancellations.
After running it through insertion finder, the optimal only joined a move, so optimal with my skeleton was 32.


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## Cubenovice (Jun 17, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> That was the hard part for me too. I have been tought by someone who knows FMC pretty well.. What we did:
> 
> -Take a solved cube.
> -Perform a pure commuctator (an 8 move commutator) and write down the moves.
> ...



The turn aka the interchange move aka the swap move 
The 3-mover is the "insertion"

so...

Insert sticker into the interchange position - interchange - invert the insert moves - interchange
or start with the interchange move

aka
ABA'B'
or BAB'A'



kinch2002 said:


> Cambridge Open 2013: L R D2 L2 R' U2 R' F2 U' R2 B R' F U R F2 L2 R B'
> 
> My 31 move solution (nothing special I know, but I like to post my solutions )



Found the same 9 move 223 but didn't like the continuations.
Some nice looking alternative starts in there but all suffered from the same problem...


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## Iggy (Jun 18, 2013)

I have a very noobish question about FMC. At competitions, are you allowed to insert stuff like "@1" for insertions in the middle of solutions? (again sorry if this question is stupid, I just wanted to make sure)


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## irontwig (Jun 18, 2013)

Iggy said:


> I have a very noobish question about FMC. At competitions, are you allowed to insert stuff like "@1" for insertions in the middle of solutions? (again sorry if this question is stupid, I just wanted to make sure)



Nope, you have to write the entire solution from start to finish with cancellations. If you write R U U' R it'll be counted as four moves even though it cancels into just R2.


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## porkynator (Jun 26, 2013)

From fmc.mustcube.net round #456 (running contest)
Scramble: U2 L2 R' F L2 R2 D L F B2 R F2 L2 U2 L2 U' B' D U B L2 U D2 F B' R' U2 L D' U' 


Spoiler



Easy scramble in my opinion, but I liked my solution so much that I wanted to post it somewhere.
Plain Heise solution with a 3-cycle inserted:
F R2 //2x2x1 (2/2)
U' B2 F//2x2x3 (3/5)
U' R2 U' F R F' //F2L+EO (6/11)
U * F' U F //Make 2 CE pairs (4/15)
U' F' U2 F U' //All but 3 corners (5/20)
* = U B U' F2 U B' U' F2 //Inserted commutator, 2 moves cancel out (6/26)


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 26, 2013)

porkynator said:


> From fmc.mustcube.net round #456 (running contest)
> Scramble: U2 L2 R' F L2 R2 D L F B2 R F2 L2 U2 L2 U' B' D U B L2 U D2 F B' R' U2 L D' U'
> 
> 
> ...



Nice. Mine was like 31 moves. But really nice scramble I agree. Can't wait to see Okayama's solution.


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## irontwig (Jun 26, 2013)

Found a 24-mover quickly, but got bored of trying to find something super lucky after half an hour.


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 26, 2013)

Ok. Whenever I do fmc, I usually do f2l-1 then orient and place edges. Then I do 2 insertions. I have found this to be very inefficient. I can sometimes do an f2l-1 in about 12. Then next step takes about 12 also. Then two insertions 16 usually cancel 2-4 so 14-16. This proves to be very inefficient. Any tips for better continuing from a 2x2x3 or f2l-1?


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## Jakube (Jun 26, 2013)

Try to orient edges during F2L-1. And try to improvise, do not always use the same approach!


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## irontwig (Jun 26, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Ok. Whenever I do fmc, I usually do f2l-1 then orient and place edges. Then I do 2 insertions. I have found this to be very inefficient. I can sometimes do an f2l-1 in about 12. Then next step takes about 12 also. Then two insertions 16 usually cancel 2-4 so 14-16. This proves to be very inefficient. Any tips for better continuing from a 2x2x3 or f2l-1?



F2L-1 in 12 is great, kinda doubt you average that though. You don't have to orient edges first (or even just leave corners). Try pairing up any CE-pair and make a (pseudo) F2L and see if you can leave few enough pieces with few enough moves or even solve everything if you happen to know the LL case. Also try to insert moves earlier and see if that makes finishing off easier.


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## TheNextFeliks (Jun 26, 2013)

irontwig said:


> F2L-1 in 12 is great, kinda doubt you average that though. You don't have to orient edges first (or even just leave corners). Try pairing up any CE-pair and make a (pseudo) F2L and see if you can leave few enough pieces with few enough moves or even solve everything if you happen to know the LL case. Also try to insert moves earlier and see if that makes finishing off easier.



Ok. Probably. F2L-1 is probably more like 16-18. I think my last one (from round 456) was though. Ok. I'll try that.

Could you possibly do an example of that please? I'm not 100% sure if I understand.


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## solvelecewbe (Jun 28, 2013)

I got this crazy scramble just now. Who can get the best solution?

B' F R2 U' B2 U' F2 D B2 F D U' L R' D2 L F R L2 F2 U' L' D' F' L


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## TheNextFeliks (Jul 1, 2013)

U2 L2 D' R2 B2 U' L2 F2 D' B2 D F D2 R D' R2 U2 L' D2 L U	

R2 (inserted) D B D' L2 F2 
U L2 U' D L' D' 
L F U2 F'
U2 L U2 L' U' 

How to continue this? 24 moves for f2l-1 with edges oriented.


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## okayama (Jul 2, 2013)

I just submitted my solution for linear solve to fmc.mustcube.net, and I noticed that
the site (checksolution.php) returned the result in a different way from the last week's one.
I already noticed that the last week's one was also a bit different from the previous one
in the way to display password, but this week's one is much different.

Someone seems to make a change in checksolution.php, but I'm not sure who does, hopefully Per.


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## TeddyKGB (Jul 5, 2013)

Scramble: F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2

Solution: U' R2 U L' U' R2 U B2 L D' L U' R2 U2 F2 B' R B2 U2 R' F R F' L U L' U2 L U2 R' U L' U' R U2 (35)


Pseudo 2x2x2: * L' B2 L D' L (5/5)

2x2x3: U' R2 U2 F2 (4/9)

F2L-1: B' R B2 U2 R' F R F' (8/17)

Last pair + edges: L U L' U2 L U' L' @ U2 (8/25)

Insert at *: U' R2 U L' U' R2 U L (8/33)

Insert at @: L U' R' U L' U' R U (8/41)

six moves canceling was awesome!!!

This was only my third attempt at FMC i'm pretty happy with the results but I wouldn't mind some pointers


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## MarcelP (Jul 10, 2013)

I am busy writing an optimal insertion finder. To create a list of edge commutator I came up with these

U2 R L' B2 R' L
U2 R' L F2 R L'
U2 L R' F2 L' R
U2 L' R B2 L R'
L R' F2 L' R U2
L' R B2 L R' U2
R L' B2 R' L U2
R' L F2 R L' U2

And after rotating these at all faces I came up with a list of 96 commutators. Are there any (true 8 move) edge commutator that I missed now?



Spoiler



1 : B2 D U' L2 D' U 
2 : B2 L R' U2 L' R 
3 : B2 R L' D2 R' L 
4 : B2 U D' R2 U' D 
5 : D2 B F' R2 B' F 
6 : D2 F B' L2 F' B 
7 : D2 L R' B2 L' R 
8 : D2 R L' F2 R' L 
9 : F2 D U' R2 D' U 
10 : F2 L R' D2 L' R 
11 : F2 R L' U2 R' L 
12 : F2 U D' L2 U' D 
13 : L2 B F' D2 B' F 
14 : L2 D U' F2 D' U 
15 : L2 F B' U2 F' B 
16 : L2 U D' B2 U' D 
17 : R2 B F' U2 B' F 
18 : R2 D U' B2 D' U 
19 : R2 F B' D2 F' B 
20 : R2 U D' F2 U' D 
21 : U2 B F' L2 B' F 
22 : U2 F B' R2 F' B 
23 : U2 L R' F2 L' R 
24 : U2 R L' B2 R' L 
25 : B2 D' U R2 D U' 
26 : B2 L' R D2 L R' 
27 : B2 R' L U2 R L' 
28 : B2 U' D L2 U D' 
29 : D2 B' F L2 B F' 
30 : D2 F' B R2 F B' 
31 : D2 L' R F2 L R' 
32 : D2 R' L B2 R L' 
33 : F2 D' U L2 D U' 
34 : F2 L' R U2 L R' 
35 : F2 R' L D2 R L' 
36 : F2 U' D R2 U D' 
37 : L2 B' F U2 B F' 
38 : L2 D' U B2 D U' 
39 : L2 F' B D2 F B' 
40 : L2 U' D F2 U D' 
41 : R2 B' F D2 B F' 
42 : R2 D' U F2 D U' 
43 : R2 F' B U2 F B' 
44 : R2 U' D B2 U D' 
45 : U2 B' F R2 B F' 
46 : U2 F' B L2 F B' 
47 : U2 L' R B2 L R' 
48 : U2 R' L F2 R L' 
49 : B F' D2 B' F L2 
50 : B F' L2 B' F U2 
51 : B F' R2 B' F D2 
52 : B F' U2 B' F R2 
53 : D U' B2 D' U R2 
54 : D U' F2 D' U L2 
55 : D U' L2 D' U B2 
56 : D U' R2 D' U F2 
57 : F B' D2 F' B R2 
58 : F B' L2 F' B D2 
59 : F B' R2 F' B U2 
60 : F B' U2 F' B L2 
61 : L R' B2 L' R D2 
62 : L R' D2 L' R F2 
63 : L R' F2 L' R U2 
64 : L R' U2 L' R B2 
65 : R L' B2 R' L U2 
66 : R L' D2 R' L B2 
67 : R L' F2 R' L D2 
68 : R L' U2 R' L F2 
69 : U D' B2 U' D L2 
70 : U D' F2 U' D R2 
71 : U D' L2 U' D F2 
72 : U D' R2 U' D B2 
73 : B' F D2 B F' R2 
74 : B' F L2 B F' D2 
75 : B' F R2 B F' U2 
76 : B' F U2 B F' L2 
77 : D' U B2 D U' L2 
78 : D' U F2 D U' R2 
79 : D' U L2 D U' F2 
80 : D' U R2 D U' B2 
81 : F' B D2 F B' L2 
82 : F' B L2 F B' U2 
83 : F' B R2 F B' D2 
84 : F' B U2 F B' R2 
85 : L' R B2 L R' U2 
86 : L' R D2 L R' B2 
87 : L' R F2 L R' D2 
88 : L' R U2 L R' F2 
89 : R' L B2 R L' D2 
90 : R' L D2 R L' F2 
91 : R' L F2 R L' U2 
92 : R' L U2 R L' B2 
93 : U' D B2 U D' R2 
94 : U' D F2 U D' L2 
95 : U' D L2 U D' B2 
96 : U' D R2 U D' F2


----------



## Sebastien (Jul 10, 2013)

Interesting! What do you dislike at the one we have?


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 10, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Interesting! What do you dislike at the one we have?



It does not find the optimal solution each time.


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## Cubenovice (Jul 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> It does not find the optimal solution each time.



interesting...
Do you have an example where IF missed the optimal inertion?

Or do you mean "optimal" as
6 moves for edges
8 moves for corners

Especially for edges there are often no 6 move insertions so you have to use longer commutators.
For corners most of the time there are several 8 movers to be found but ocassionaly there are none.

Tomoaki has posted several examples of the latter.




MarcelP said:


> Are there any (true 8 move) edge commutator that I missed now?



Ehm... you have not posted a single true 8 mover


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 10, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> interesting...
> Do you have an example where IF missed the optimal inertion?



No, not here at the spot, but I will have them as my program is finished.



Cubenovice said:


> Or do you mean "optimal" as
> 6 moves for edges
> 8 moves for corners



I mean that in total the solution will have less moves because my program will find the optimal solution.




Cubenovice said:


> Ehm... you have not posted a single true 8 mover



Oops, I ment 6 ofcourse


----------



## kinch2002 (Jul 10, 2013)

Are you going to check random edge algs that are 7/8 moves as well? There are certainly some 8 moves that could produce shorter solutions than the 6 movers


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 10, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> Are you going to check random edge algs that are 7/8 moves as well? There are certainly some 8 moves that could produce shorter solutions than the 6 movers



Yes, I intend to do that aswell. I am still only in the first fase of the project. So far I can only find optimal 3 corner inserts. Baby steps forward..


----------



## cuBerBruce (Jul 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I mean that in total the solution will have less moves because my program will find the optimal solution.



In theory, any skeleton can be converted to an optimal solution for the scramble if you're willing to try long enough insertions. In practice, you need to limit the length or number of algs that you consider as possible insertion algs, and so how "optimal" you're insertion finder will be will depend on how far you're willing to go in the number of insertion algs you consider.

And by the way, I've contrived some tricky cases where I thought the existing Insertion Finder might miss the solution I expected due to needing a suboptimal 3-cycle (for instance), but it would still find it. So if you want to have it find solutions that the existing one misses, you probably have to consider a lot of suboptimal insertion algs.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 10, 2013)

cuBerBruce said:


> So if you want to have it find solutions that the existing one misses, you probably have to consider a lot of suboptimal insertion algs.



Okay, I will keep that in mind. Thanks.


----------



## Cubenovice (Jul 10, 2013)

cuBerBruce said:


> In theory, any skeleton can be converted to an optimal solution for the scramble if you're willing to try long enough insertions.


True but those insertions would not be 3 cycles.
The insertion would actually be "a shorter solution + moves around it that cancel out your existing solution"



cuBerBruce said:


> And by the way, I've contrived some tricky cases where I thought the existing Insertion Finder might miss the solution I expected due to needing a suboptimal 3-cycle (for instance), but it would still find it. So if you want to have it find solutions that the existing one misses, you probably have to consider a lot of suboptimal insertion algs.



Again I dare to ask: what do we consider optimal here?
An optimal edge cycle is only 6 moves but if there are no 6 moves insertions possible for your skeleteon then a 7 mover, then an 8 mover etc etc should be considered as the optimal solution for the specific cycle to be solved.

In FMC insertion finding I consider the shortest *possible* insertion "optimal".
For edges this is more often than not based on a 3 cycle longer than 6 moves 


edit:
"suboptimal insertion alg" sounds like solving an 8 move case with more moves which does not make sense.
It would be something like using an A9 commutator to solve an 8 move case...
But in reality this would just cancel an additional move for the same net result.

You only need to include optimal algs for all posible cycles, where optimal for specific corners cases can be up to 12 moves ( Per special)


----------



## irontwig (Jul 10, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> True but those insertions would not be 3 cycles.



Sure it would:

Optimal generator: G 
Skeleton that leaves three corners: S

The insertion at the end S' G' is surely a three cycle, right?


----------



## CubeRoots (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm not sure how much more optimal an insertion finder should go than the one we have currently. The longer the insertions you consider are the more conofusing, non-intuitive output you are going to get, and an insertion finder checking extremely long insertions would inevitably end up becoming an optimal solver, which we already have plenty of. 

I think that the function of a real insertion finder is to find the optimal solution that a human could feasibly find. The difficulty in creating an optimal insertion finder is judging when the line of "can be feasibly found by a human" is crossed.


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## Jakube (Jul 10, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> And after rotating these at all faces I came up with a list of 96 commutators. Are there any (true 8 move) edge commutator that I missed now?



There are algs like L F2 L' R U2 R'. This is not a true commutator, but it something, I would definitely use as an insertion.


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## cubernya (Jul 10, 2013)

Jakube said:


> L F2 L' R U2 R'. This is not a true commutator



[L:F2][R:U2]


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## Cubenovice (Jul 10, 2013)

Jakube said:


> There are algs like L F2 L' R U2 R'. This is not a true commutator, but it something, I would definitely use as an insertion.



note how the first move does not move the pieces of the cycle.
This means you can just "roll over" the first move and you get F2 L' R U2 R' L 

and hey, the last piece in your alg asls does not move the pieces of the cycle so you could bring it to the front.

This is the good part of the 6 movers: many options to cancel moves.
Too bad the pieces never end up on the slice correctly when you need them to.


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## Jakube (Jul 10, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> just roll over the first move and you get F2 L' R U2 R' L
> 
> this is the good part of the 6 movers



I know this. I just wanted to add, that Marcel's InsertonFinder should look for such algs too.


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## MarcelP (Jul 11, 2013)

Jakube said:


> There are algs like L F2 L' R U2 R'. This is not a true commutator, but it something, I would definitely use as an insertion.



Thanks! You are right.. I need these also..


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## TeddyKGB (Jul 11, 2013)

If I do a solve that leaves me with 4 corners left and it is two sets of swapped corners I believe the best way to go about finishing this would be to do two insertions. My question is how to sticker these corners. What I did was put a sticker with a 1 on one corner then a sticker with a 2 where the 1 goes, then put a sticker with a 3 on the same corner piece as the 1 but where the 2 goes and did the same thing for the other set but with A, B and C. Not that this was particularly difficult it just got a little confusing when going through the skeleton looking for an insertion with all these stickers everywhere. I was just wondering if there was an easier way to do this.

Also, if I have the same situation but with a fifth corner twisted in place should I do three insertions or go back a few moves and try for a different ending?


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## MaikeruKonare (Jul 11, 2013)

I want to learn how to do this. Why did you invert the scramble?


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## Cubenovice (Jul 13, 2013)

MaikeruKonare said:


> I want to learn how to do this. Why did you invert the scramble?



Go here:
http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Fewest_Moves_techniques

Read the page and check out the links at the bottom of the page.




TeddyKGB said:


> If I do a solve that leaves me with 4 corners left and it is two sets of swapped corners I believe the best way to go about finishing this would be to do two insertions. My question is how to sticker these corners. What I did was put a sticker with a 1 on one corner then a sticker with a 2 where the 1 goes, then put a sticker with a 3 on the same corner piece as the 1 but where the 2 goes and did the same thing for the other set but with A, B and C. ?


Whoa...
There is no need to sticker all faces of the corner piece.

All you need is 4 stickers, one for each corner piece involved.

First swap:
sticker a random sticker "1" on the corner piece
find where it goes and sticker it with another "1"

Second swap:
sticker a random sticker "A" on the corner piece
find where it goes and sticker it with another "A"

Insertions:
look for a cycle that brings one "1" to another "1" + involves another stickered corner piece.
Note that it does not have the be the sticker with the "A" on it. You just need to involve the "corner piece" with the "A" sticker.





TeddyKGB said:


> Also, if I have the same situation but with a fifth corner twisted in place should I do three insertions or go back a few moves and try for a different ending?



5 corners with one twisted in place typically requires an alternative ending.
But if you have a really short skeleton you might go for it, I know Sebastien has done three insertions before and with good results.


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## yoshinator (Jul 13, 2013)

So, I've been practicing a little bit of FMC before worlds, and I came up with this nice-ish beginning of a solution, and I'm looking for some help with the end.
Scramble: F2 D2 R2 U' F2 D' U2 B2 U' L2 R' U B' D' F2 D2 F' L' R'
Solution so far: U' R' F B L2 D' L2 F' U R U' F R' B' R2 D' R' D B L
Now, what should I do next? I can't seem to find a good way to solve the rest of the cube.

Thanks in advance for the help.


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## mycube (Jul 13, 2013)

can you please explain your solution? 
so it's easier to give some tipps or good endings

so far: easiest way would be a B at the end of the solution and insertions. there you would need 3 what is a lot..

edit:
change the F2L-1 to this:
U' R' F B L2 D' L2 F' U R U' F R' B' R2
L D' R' D L' B L B

there is a 5-cycle, what you can solve with two insertions


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 13, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> Whoa...
> There is no need to sticker all faces of the corner piece.


That's not what he said. He only puts stickies on 6 facelets, not all 12.

But your method is assuming you have oriented 2-cycles. 2/3 of the time the 2-cycles will be misoriented. In the case of misoriented 2-cycles, you need to be careful which piece is which in the 2-cycle, or you may end up "solving" a piece with the orientation wrong. That's why TeddyKGB uses "1" and "2" instead of two "1"s.

One can ask if it's worth the time searching all possibilities for the 1st insertion. Obviously it takes more time to do so, and one might be better off doing a faster, more limited search.


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## yoshinator (Jul 13, 2013)

mycube said:


> can you please explain your solution?
> so it's easier to give some tipps or good endings
> 
> so far: easiest way would be a B at the end of the solution and insertions. there you would need 3 what is a lot..
> ...



U' R' F // Super obvious 2x2x2
B L2 D' L2 // pseudo-2x2x3 Then I decided that I'd try to do F2L minus one heise style
F' U R U' F R' B' R2 D' R' D B L // Rest of peuso F2L minus one plus edge plus OLL (OLL was lucky) [What I did was insert one edge then solve remaining F2L pair]

Just to confirm, an insertion is basically just something like R' D R U R' D' R? Is that right? Because that's what I did in the first place, which leaves a not so nice solution.

Edit: After messing around with your idea to create a 5-cycle, I'm just curious, how did you think of that?


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## stevecho816 (Jul 13, 2013)

I started doing FMC and I have a question, how do you find a good premove? Do you choose a random premove until you find a good start?


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## mycube (Jul 13, 2013)

yoshinator said:


> Edit: After messing around with your idea to create a 5-cycle, I'm just curious, how did you think of that?



It is normal to try some different options for an ending. so this was the obvious easy opportunity for an end with better corners 
and normally at the end of my skeleton I use insertions for the corners because there are shorter solutions than an LL 

if nobody did I will take a look at your solution tomorrow


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## mycube (Jul 14, 2013)

played around with your start yoshinator

F2 D2 R2 U' F2 D' U2 B2 U' L2 R' U B' D' F2 D2 F' L' R'

Premove: L
U' R' F B L2 D' L2 - same start, but premove for a real 2x2x3
B' D B' L' D L - F2L-1
B' R' B' R - lucky pair, which I insert with a sledgehammer
the insertion finder found a 27 move solution with two insertions

I hope you can understand what I did.
maybe there are some good things on the inverse, I didn't check it.



stevecho816 said:


> I started doing FMC and I have a question, how do you find a good premove? Do you choose a random premove until you find a good start?



with this solution I can answer your question:
Look at the 2x2x3 without a premove. It's just a pseude-2x2x3. Now I do the premove L to have a 2x2x3. Without the premove I wouldn't have found the solution I found.


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## Cubenovice (Jul 14, 2013)

cuBerBruce said:


> That's not what he said. He only puts stickies on 6 facelets, not all 12.
> 
> But your method is assuming you have oriented 2-cycles. 2/3 of the time the 2-cycles will be misoriented. In the case of misoriented 2-cycles, you need to be careful which piece is which in the 2-cycle, or you may end up "solving" a piece with the orientation wrong. That's why TeddyKGB uses "1" and "2" instead of two "1"s.
> 
> One can ask if it's worth the time searching all possibilities for the 1st insertion. Obviously it takes more time to do so, and one might be better off doing a faster, more limited search.



Ah yes...
I see now that read the OP completely wrong. And the description implies misoriented swaps...


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## PM 1729 (Jul 14, 2013)

I had done a presentation at college about FMC. I hope someone finds it useful.
If you find any errors please let me know.

Link to all files: here

The zip file has everything, so you don't need to download anything else.

If you don't want to download the prezi, just download the examples. Here is a link to the prezi.


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## TheNextFeliks (Jul 18, 2013)

*Ryan Pope FMC 32 Move Winning Solution Tree Town 2013*

Here is my winning fmc solution from Tree Town 2013:

Scramble: F2 L2 R2 U B2 R2 D2 U R B F' R' F2 D2 F' R D L2 R2
Solution: F R B L B' U2 R U' L2 U R' U' L B2 L U' F2 D' F' U2 F D F' R2 U' F D R2 D' F' R' F

21 move skeleton Heise-style:
F R 
B L B'
U @1 L' B2 L
U' F U2 @2 R2
U' F 
D R2 D'
F' R' F 

2 Insertions 5 moves cancel:
@1: U R U' L2 U R' U' L2
@2: U2 F D' F' U2 F D F'

Insertions were a pain without stickers but still good. 

Btw: Chester came in 2nd with 36 and Nathan Dwyer came in 3rd with 39 iirc.


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## antoineccantin (Jul 18, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Insertions were a pain without stickers



What? You normally have stickers on your cubes? That's bizarre, I always keep my cubes fully unstickered.


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## TeddyKGB (Jul 18, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Insertions were a pain without stickers but still good.



Wow, I couldn't imagine doing insertions without stickers, Nice job. I came in 5th with 45 which I was extremely disappointed with but I usually fail pretty hard at comps so it's not surprising...


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## TheNextFeliks (Jul 18, 2013)

TeddyKGB said:


> Wow, I couldn't imagine doing insertions without stickers, Nice job. I came in 5th with 45 which I was extremely disappointed with but I usually fail pretty hard at comps so it's not surprising...



Thanks. Good job yourself.

Has anyone thought about doing, for insertions, take an unstickered cube, put the three stickers on the pieces that need to be switched? Then scramble and solve an look for insertions. Seems like it could be easier.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 18, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> interesting...
> Do you have an example where IF missed the optimal inertion?



Right now I am bug testing a first raw version and I have found some.

http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7136f50742c252b3f1980464349c624e.cube

1 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
No proper insertion found
Runtime: 0 milliseconds


My program: Shortest solution :U2 D' F R2 U' D B2 U R' U2 D' 

My program finds many solutions on that case. 'IF' is much much faster than my program however  I have been in contact with BQ (developer of 'IF') and it seems I am missing a lot of commutators. So I will be focussing on that problem now. When I have fixed that I will have to find a way to make my program much faster. (Single 3 corner of 3 edge cycle is one second, but 4 corners or 5 corners takes a minute).


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## okayama (Jul 18, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Right now I am bug testing a first raw version and I have found some.
> 
> http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7136f50742c252b3f1980464349c624e.cube
> 
> ...



It seems to work for me.
http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/2331dbd60639512dff45804be8a9581a.cube

You should check "edge 3-cycle" before your submission.


----------



## Jakube (Jul 18, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Right now I am bug testing a first raw version and I have found some.
> 
> http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7136f50742c252b3f1980464349c624e.cube
> 
> ...



I just checked this with IF again, and I get a solution (the same as yours): http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/2331dbd60639512dff45804be8a9581a.cube
Maybe you forgot to search for edge insertions. 

The only case I know, where the IF doesn't work, is when the optimal insertion is a 9-mover (even when there is a cancelation): http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/f360b2c7d4e77d89ab54ca9d85b38e1c.cube
Scamble: U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 (10)
Skeleton: R2 D' (2)

Using this skeleton there is no proper insertion (I mean 8-mover) possible, but you can insert a 9-mover, which cancels one move: 
Scamble: U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2
Skeleton: R2 # D' (2)
Insertion at #: D2 B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D' (9)
So you result in a 10-move solution. 

If my memory serves me right, Okayama had a solve once, where something like this occurred.

It would be really great, if your program is able to find these insertions. You could implement an option, that determines, if your program looks for 9-mover or not. It will be interesting to see the difference on certain skeletons.


----------



## mycube (Jul 18, 2013)

Jakube said:


> If my memory serves me right, Okayama had a solve once, where something like this occurred.



Not just him, me too. But yes, you are right. When I posted my solution where the 9 move insertion is optimal some months ago Okayama replied with some other solutions.


----------



## BQ (Jul 18, 2013)

Jakube said:


> If my memory serves me right, Okayama had a solve once, where something like this occurred.



Okayama's case: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=778567&viewfull=1#post778567

I've no idea about finding such non-pure insertions. Maybe it can be solved by adding 9-moves and 10-moves algorithms.


----------



## Bizarro (Jul 18, 2013)

TeddyKGB said:


> Wow, I couldn't imagine doing insertions without stickers, Nice job. I came in 5th with 45 which I was extremely disappointed with but I usually fail pretty hard at comps so it's not surprising...



Haha. But you still got compliments on your solves, so there's that.


----------



## MarcelP (Jul 19, 2013)

okayama said:


> It seems to work for me.
> http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/2331dbd60639512dff45804be8a9581a.cube
> 
> You should check "edge 3-cycle" before your submission.



Ah.. I see. I did not know that. I have used it before but I do not recall checking one of the options.  In any case, my program does not need user input for that.



Jakube said:


> The only case I know, where the IF doesn't work, is when the optimal insertion is a 9-mover (even when there is a cancelation): http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/f360b2c7d4e77d89ab54ca9d85b38e1c.cube
> Scamble: U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 (10)
> Skeleton: R2 D' (2)
> 
> ...



Yeah, my program does find these cases..



Spoiler



Scramble= U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 
Commutator = U B' R' B L2 B' R B L2 U'
Moves cancelled = 0
Solution = U B' R' B L2 B' R B L2 U'R2 U B' R' B L2 B' R B L2 U'D' 
Cancelled string= U B' R' B L2 B' R B L2 U' R2 U B' R' B L2 B' R B L2 U' D' 

Scramble= U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 
Commutator = D L' B' L F2 L' B L F2 D'
Moves cancelled = 1
Solution = D L' B' L F2 L' B L F2 D'R2 D L' B' L F2 L' B L F2 D'D' 
Cancelled string= D L' B' L F2 L' B L F2 D' R2 D L' B' L F2 L' B L F2 D2 

Scramble= U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 
Commutator = D2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2 D2
Moves cancelled = 1
Solution = D2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2 D2R2 D2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2 D2D' 
Cancelled string= D F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2 D2 R2 D F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2 D 

Scramble= U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 
Commutator = D F2 L' B' L F2 L' B L D'
Moves cancelled = 1
Solution = R2 D F2 L' B' L F2 L' B L D'D' 
Cancelled string= R2 D F2 L' B' L F2 L' B L D2 

Scramble= U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 
Commutator = D2 F2 L' B' L F2 L' B L D2
Moves cancelled = 1
Solution R2 D' D2 F2 L' B' L F2 L' B L D2
Cancelled string= R2 D F2 L' B' L F2 L' B L D2 

Scramble= U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 
Commutator = U L2 B' R' B L2 B' R B U'
Moves cancelled = 0
Solution = R2 U L2 B' R' B L2 B' R B U'D' 
Cancelled string= R2 U L2 B' R' B L2 B' R B U' D' 

Scramble= U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 
Commutator = D2 B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D D2
Moves cancelled = 1
Solution = R2 D2 B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D D2D' 
Cancelled string= R2 D2 B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D2 

Scramble= U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 
Commutator = D' B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D D
Moves cancelled = 1
Solution = R2 D' D' B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D D
Cancelled string= R2 D2 B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D2 

Scramble= U2 B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 U2 R2 
Commutator = U' L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R2 D U
Moves cancelled = 0
Solution = R2 D' U' L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R2 D U
Cancelled string= R2 D' U' L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R2 D U


----------



## okayama (Jul 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > It seems to work for me.
> ...


Just in case you missed out: IF usually does not need the user input either.
"edge 3-cycle" is automatically checked after you input the skeleton, by
investigating the unsolved pieces. I'm not sure why that is not checked
in your case, though.


----------



## JackJ (Jul 20, 2013)

An old scramble I know, but I just did the scramble from Saarland Open 2012.

D2 L2 B R2 U2 F' L2 U2 B2 L2 F' D L2 B U L' U2 L' F' R'

2x2: U' D B' U B2 D2 R 
2x3: L2 U' B' U' B
F2L: U' F U' F U' R U2 R' U' F U' F'
OLL: R B U' B' U' B U B' R2
PLL: U B' F R2 B F' U R2 U'

42 moves. I know my finishing F2L is bad, and my LL is not efficient, but I'm working on it. Hopefully get something around 42 moves at Worlds.


----------



## ardi4nto (Jul 21, 2013)

Hi,

Haven't done FMC in a while, and I submitted classic FMC #459 in Per's FMC site, but it doesn't appear in the result. 
Anyone know why? And How can I contact Per?

Here's my solution anyway:



Spoiler



premove R'

1x2x3: U' L2 * U' B L' B'
2x2x3 + some pairs: R' U L2 F' R' F
F2L: R2 D F' R F D
Correction: R'

pair 3 cycle at *:
B2 U' Fw2 U B2 U' Fw2 U (or without wide moves: B2 U' B2 D B2 D' B2 U)

Final solution: U' L2 B2 U' B2 D B2 D' B' L' B' R' U L2 F' R' F R2 D F' R F D R' (24)


----------



## okayama (Jul 21, 2013)

ardi4nto said:


> Hi,
> 
> Haven't done FMC in a while, and I submitted classic FMC #459 in Per's FMC site, but it doesn't appear in the result.
> Anyone know why? And How can I contact Per?
> ...



http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=857076&viewfull=1#post857076

Currently-known workaround: write \' instead of ' in the comments.


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## Sebastien (Jul 21, 2013)

Yes, it is very annoying. I had a 23 move solution for #459 and forgot to add the Backslashes (while I did this for #458). I kind of doubt that per is actively working on this. Is anyone in contact with him?


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## PM 1729 (Jul 21, 2013)

Nikhil Mande and me did the #459 on mustcube together. We got a pretty cool skeleton (15 moves with 5 corners left) and then insertions to a total of 24 in around 2 hrs. Here is the solution:

Scramble: L U' D' F' U' R2 D2 L2 R2 F2 U L F B2 L2 D2 R' F2 B' R2 U D2 F' B' L' U2 F' R2 L' U2

Solution: U L R' B R F R' B' R B' L' B R B' L B2 D2 R B' D B2 U F2 R

Explanation: 
On scr: Blocks: U L F R (4)

Switch to inv with pre: R' F' L' U' (4)

On inv: Pseudo 2x2x3: R' F2 U' B'(4) +Pre: B' (1)

Back to scr with pre: B U F2 R (4/4)
On scr: 2x2x3: U L F R B (5/9)
F2L-1: D2 R (2/11)
Leave 5 corners: B' D B (3-1 cancels with pre=2/13)

So skeleton is: U L * F R @ B D2 R B' D B2 U F2 R (13)

Insert at *: R' B R F' R' B' R F' (8-3=5)
Insert at @: R' B' L' B R B' L B (8-2=6)
for a total of 24.

Sub Okayama! YAY!


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## okayama (Jul 21, 2013)

Really well done. I should have investigated it more, in view of Sébastien's result (said 23 moves) as well.


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## cubernya (Jul 21, 2013)

It (should) be a fairly simple fix in the coding, just switching ' to ", but it might be more than that. Either way, it should be a very simple fix.

(I'm assuming that the backslash is because it's not escaping the 's in a line of code)


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## IQubic (Jul 21, 2013)

What exactly is FMC. It seems interesting. What is it? Can you get good at it? And do you practice it?
-IQubic


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## Username (Jul 21, 2013)

IQubic said:


> What exactly is FMC. It seems interesting. What is it? Can you get good at it? And do you practice it?
> -IQubic



No it's impossible to get good at it



Spoiler: To mods



Delete this if you think it's rude


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## IQubic (Jul 21, 2013)

Username, I meant what does the acronym of FMC stand for???


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## Username (Jul 21, 2013)

IQubic said:


> Username, I meant what does the acronym of FMC stand for???



Fewest Moves Challenge


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## IQubic (Jul 21, 2013)

I see, is that where you take a given scramble and try to get it solved in the least amount of moves?


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## Username (Jul 21, 2013)

IQubic said:


> I see, is that where you take a given scramble and try to get it solved in the least amount of moves?



Yes


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## ben1996123 (Jul 21, 2013)

IQubic said:


> I see, is that where you take a given scramble and try to get it solved in the least amount of moves?



[wiki]FMC[/wiki]


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## PM 1729 (Jul 23, 2013)

3x3 FMC at Indian Cube Championship: DNF

Scramble: U2 F2 D2 L R D2 L' B2 U2 B2 D2 B D' R' U' F' U L F D2 F'
Solution: U2 D' L' F D B U B' R B' U2 B' U R' U' R2 U R' U R U2 R' U2 R2 U' R2 U' L' D L U2 L' D' L (34)

Explanation: 
2x2x3: U2 D' L' F D B U B' R B2 (10)

Switch to inverse with premoves: B2 R' B U' B' D' F' L D U2
On inverse: F2L-1: U' R2 U R2 (4/14)

Back to scramble with pre: R2 U' R2 U (4)
On scramble: F2L-1: U2 D' L' F D B U B' R B2 (10/14)
Leave 3 corners: B U2 B' U R' U' R2 U R' U R U2 R' U2 (14-1=13/27)

So skeleton is : U2 D' L' F D B U B' R B' U2 B' U R' U' R2 U R' U R U2 R' U2 R2 U' R2 U .
At . insert : U2 L' D L U2 L' D' L (8-1=7/34)



Spoiler









The circled move should be a U'.
:fp


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## Brest (Jul 23, 2013)

Nice solution! Transcription DNFs are frustrating indeed.

I found a slightly better insertion:

U2 D' L' F D
B U B' R B'
U2 B' U R' U'
R2 U R' U R U2
R' (1) U2 R2 U' R2 U

(1) [R, B L' B']

All those <R,U> moves at the end make me suspect that there is a shorter solution. One of the many pros that frequent this thread might be able to find it!


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## PM 1729 (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks! I ran it on IF and got a 33 optimal. So you found an optimal insertion. That being said, I too thought that the R Us will give more cancellations.


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## kinch2002 (Jul 24, 2013)

As Brest said the <R,U> part might have a better solution, I tried using the same start and found this:
Same start prior to the <R,U> part: U2 D' L' F D B U B' R B' U2 B'
Square: R' U R U R2
Another Square: U2 R U R' U'
Fix blocks to leave 3 corners: R2 U2
Cuts 3 moves off the skeleton. No time to insert - leaving for Vegas!


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## MarcelP (Jul 30, 2013)

Does anyone know if a 2X2X3 block has a gods number? I alwayst try to find 2X2X3 BLOCK because it gives you multiple sides to continue on. But most of the times it takes me too much moves so that it looses all purpose. What move count for a 2x2x3 block should be OK for the solution to continue on?


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## Goater (Jul 30, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Does anyone know if a 2X2X3 block has a gods number? I alwayst try to find 2X2X3 BLOCK because it gives you multiple sides to continue on. But most of the times it takes me too much moves so that it looses all purpose. What move count for a 2x2x3 block should be OK for the solution to continue on?


Check out this topic: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13578-Optimal-2x2x3-Humanly-possible
But still IMO, there shouldn't be any "always" in fewest moves methods... except for "always try to use various methods".

Guys, do you have FMC scrambles from Vegas?


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## Jakube (Jul 30, 2013)

Follow the link. Here they claim that god's number for a 2x2x3 block is 11. 
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...parity-challenge&p=57721&viewfull=1#post57721


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## MarcelP (Jul 30, 2013)

Goater said:


> Check out this topic: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13578-Optimal-2x2x3-Humanly-possible
> But still IMO, there shouldn't be any "always" in fewest moves methods... except for "always try to use various methods".



Thanks for the link. Yeah I know, with always I mean, I always start with finding a 2X2X3 block. And I almost never succeed 



Jakube said:


> Follow the link. Here they claim that god's number for a 2x2x3 block is 11.
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...parity-challenge&p=57721&viewfull=1#post57721



Ok, thanks!


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## JackJ (Jul 30, 2013)

37 from Worlds (first attempt)

U2 R' U F' L2 F' B' U' R U' F' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2

2x2x3: F2 U' F2 B' L2 R U R2 F2
pseudo F2L + OLL: R' B' R B R' U R U R2 F R F' R U2 R'
PLL: U B2 Uw B' U B' U' B Uw' B2 R' U R'

Found in ~30 minutes.


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## Julian (Jul 31, 2013)

My two attempts at Worlds



Spoiler: 32



U2 R' U F' L2 F' B' U' R U' F' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2

F2 U' F2 B' L2 // 2x2x2
R U R2 F U' F // 2x2x3 + pair
U R B' R' B R' // F2L-1
B U2 B' U B U B' // F2L
L' B' R B' R' B2 L U // LL





Spoiler: 33



(premoves D' B D') D' L2 R2 F2 D R2 D2 R D B2 F U' L B R F2 R2 D' U

F2 U2 B D' R // 2x2x2 + 2 pairs
L U D' B2 U' L2 D L2 B D' B' // F2L
U' . L' F' L F U L // L3C

Insert [F', L B L'] at . to cancel 1 move.


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## Sebastien (Jul 31, 2013)

Eventually I got some time to post my 26 move solution placing second at WC2013, including the most exiting finishing moment I've ever had in my whole FMC career.

Scramble: D' L2 R2 F2 D R2 D2 R D B2 F U' L B R F2 R2 D' U
Inverse: U' D R2 F2 R' B' L' U F' B2 D' R' D2 R2 D' F2 R2 L2 D

As already in WC2013's first attempt I had lots of bad luck with insertions for this scramble even though having some decent skeletons. Time passed by and at around 55:30 I decided to give the last shot on the following skeleton I had found on the inverse:

Some Blocks + some orientation: B R U' D F
6C3E: D B2 D' U2 R' U * L2
* = L B' D B L' B' D' B to get L4C

Skeleton: B R U' D F D B2 # D' U2 R' U L B' D B L' + B' D' B L2

Around 57:00 I found # = B2 D F' D' B2 D F D'
After restickering for pass 2 I found + = L B' R2 B L' B' R2 B at around 59:10.

Then I just rushed writing down the solution, inverting and taking into account the insertions and hoping for not messing this up. The call to put down the pens came within a second after I had written down the last move. I was absolutely shaking and exited while trying what I had written down right afterwards. I guess that you can imagine the relief that came over me when it worked.


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## ottozing (Jul 31, 2013)

My 31 tied OcR from WC13 



Spoiler: Solution



(Premoves L2 B) D' L2 R2 F2 D R2 D2 R D B2 F U' L B R F2 R2 D' U
F2 U2 B D' R (2x2x2)
L U B2 U' (2x2x3)
D B D B2 L2 B (EO+XXXcross)
L' D L (Finish F2L)
F D2 F' L' D F D F' D' L D2 (ZBLL)
L2 B (Undo Premoves)



A little bit lucky but still an OcR :3


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## ben1996123 (Jul 31, 2013)

okso ive started doing fmc abit but i still such at it

premove R2
L2 B R2 B' F2 U2 F' U2 R2 U2 L2 D' R' D L' R' D2 F L2 R2 F'
F B L' D R B
z2 U F L' U L
???
L2

notsure what to do next

halp ?

oarso found this which is kindof cool but disgusting

L2 B R2 B' F2 U2 F' U2 R2 U2 L2 D' R' D L' R' D2 F L2 R2 F'

F B L' D R B
z2 U F L' U L
R U' R' U2 R U' R' U2 R' F R F2 L2


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## CubeRoots (Jul 31, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> okso ive started doing fmc abit but i still such at it
> 
> premove R2
> L2 B R2 B' F2 U2 F' U2 R2 U2 L2 D' R' D L' R' D2 F L2 R2 F'
> ...



first one you could do F' L' B' U' B U2 L U to leave 5 corners, but sadly 1 is twisted... so not much use

F' U2 L' U2 B' U B L U' follows the same idea only it leaves 4 corners, 1 twist. so you could do a double insertion to finish.


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## ben1996123 (Jul 31, 2013)

CubeRoots said:


> first one you could do F' L' B' U' B U2 L U to leave 5 corners, but sadly 1 is twisted... so not much use
> 
> F' U2 L' U2 B' U B L U' follows the same idea only it leaves 4 corners, 1 twist. so you could do a double insertion to finish.



o so just solve edges then do inserciónes ok


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## KiwiCuber (Jul 31, 2013)

ottozing said:


> My 31 tied OcR from WC13
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I got NZ NR on the same scramble and had the same 2x2x2 block to start

Solution
F2 U2 B D' R (2x2x2)
L' D L2 D' B D B D B' (XX-cross)
U' L' U L' D' L' D (F2L-3)
B L B' L' U' L' U (F2L-4)
Fw (U L U' L')2 Fw' (OLL)
No Auf PLL skip

38 moves 
(goal for worlds was to get one success sub-50, got both successes 47 and 38)


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## Goater (Jul 31, 2013)

I wasn't in Vegas, but here is what I found at home:

First scramble: U2 R' U F' L2 F' B' U' R U' F' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2
Solution: x U' [U F2 U', B'] B' U D F' D2 L2 R U' R U' B2 U' R U' R2 U' R' U' R (22 moves found in 20 minutes)

Second scramble: D' L2 R2 F2 D R2 D2 R D B2 F U' L B R F2 R2 D' U
Solution: y D B' U' R F U2 L [L' D L, U2] U' F2 D R U2 R2 U2 R L' U2 (22 moves found in 80 minutes, backup was 33 moves)

Seems easier, when there is no pressure...


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## okayama (Jul 31, 2013)

My solutions from the world champs.

1st scramble: U2 R' U F' L2 F' B' U' R U' F' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2
1st solution: B R' B F U2 D B F' D2 F U2 F' D2 F' D' F D R F R F R U2 L2 U R U' L2 U (29 moves, but DNF by a written mistake)


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: R U' R

1st square: B R' B
2nd square: F U2
2x2x3 block: D B * U2
More 2 squares: F2 D' F D
All but 4 corners: R F R F
Correction: R U' R

I found this skeleton in 45 min. or so, and not enough time left for me
to search optimal insertions. Therefore I did:

Corner 3-cycle: R' U' L2 U R U' L2 U
Insert at *: F' D2 F U2 F' D2 F U2

I wrote down this solution in the final few minutes, and it resulted in DNF. 

The optimal solution for the skeleton is 28 moves.



2nd scramble: D' L2 R2 F2 D R2 D2 R D B2 F U' L B R F2 R2 D' U
2nd solution: F2 U2 B D' R L' B' L' B L' B L B2 L' D2 B' D L' B2 R' F U2 F' R B L2 B2 D2 (28 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: B D2

2x2x2 block: F2 U2 B D' R
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: L' B' L' B L'
More square: B L B2
More square: L'
Finish F2L: D2 B' D
LL: L' B2 R' F U2 F' R B L2 B
Correction: B D2

I knew this solution was not enough to win, but couldn't find any better solution in time.



Congrats to the winners with the excellent moves.
Great sum of podium: 25+26+26=77. (WR is 74 in BW Open 2013?)

FYI, Mean of 2 podium for the WC2013:

Sébastien Auroux (29, 26 = 27.5)
Jan Bentlage (28, 31 = 29.5)
Timothy Sun (32, 31 = 31.5)

EDIT: Excellent solutions, Grzegorz.
I like the first solve with EO-first, looks natural and easy to see. :tu


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## keemy (Aug 1, 2013)

I doubt anyone cares to see mine but 

(they accidentally gave some competitors the wrong scramble at first I got a 29 on it in like 30 mins =/)
"first scramble": U' B2 F2 R2 U2 R' U B U2 B2 F D' L' B2 L U2
"first solution": R B' F2 L U' L D' L U' L2 U L U R' U2 R2 U2 R' U' L U2 F U' F' L' B' U B U2
Not that great but had a 8 move LL I knew that canceled 1 move into the f2l which was pretty amusing.

first scramble: U2 R' U F' L2 F' B' U' R U' F' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2
solution: B' L2 B' D B R U F2 D F' U' F D R' U2 R' U' R F' U2 B U F U B' U



Spoiler



2x2x2: B' L2 B' D B
xcross +good setup: R U F (insert here) U' F R'
finish skeleton: U2 R' U' R F' U F (bruno here) U2

5 corner cycle and I just had nice insertions



and for the final scramble all my starts ended up with bad edges at the end so I gave up =/ the best I found was like 35 but half the moves were spent fixing the last 5 edges.


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## tseitsei (Aug 1, 2013)

Am I allowed to use f, l r.... moves in FMC


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## cubernya (Aug 1, 2013)

tseitsei said:


> Am I allowed to use f, l r.... moves in FMC



Yes, but it has to be Fw, Lw, etc. (reg 12a2)


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## EMI (Aug 1, 2013)

theZcuber said:


> Yes, but it has to be Fw, Lw, etc. (reg 12a2)



...and it is really uncool.


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## tseitsei (Aug 1, 2013)

theZcuber said:


> Yes, but it has to be Fw, Lw, etc. (reg 12a2)



Thanks. I sometimes use corner-edge pair commutators and find it difficult to use them without wide turns . I can do that if I have a lot of time left, but if I'm in a hurry I just need to write down the solution with wide moves...


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## cubernya (Aug 1, 2013)

tseitsei said:


> Thanks. I sometimes use corner-edge pair commutators and find it difficult to use them without wide turns . I can do that if I have a lot of time left, but if I'm in a hurry I just need to write down the solution with wide moves...



Just remember that you can NOT use slice turns now. Rotations and wide turns are still there, but slices aren't


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## tseitsei (Aug 1, 2013)

theZcuber said:


> Just remember that you can NOT use slice turns now. Rotations and wide turns are still there, but slices aren't



Yeah, I knew that slice moves were banned now. Just wasn't sure if they had banned wide moves also


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## ben1996123 (Aug 2, 2013)

scramble: R' F2 L' R' F2 U2 L' F2 L F2 L' B R' U' L U2 B' D R2 B'

2x2x3+EO: U2 B U2 F' U D' L' F' R'
edges+1 corner: F2 D2 F' D F2
14 moves

to bad the corners such though D:


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## JackJ (Aug 2, 2013)

F' D' B' D' F2 D F' R F2 D B U' F2 B' R' B' D B' U F2 D2 R D2 L R 



Spoiler



2x2: B D U R U R'
2x2x3 + 1 pair: B' U B2 U2 B U2 B
4th pair: U' L' U' L U2 F U2 F'
OLL: L F' L' F U F U' F' U



30 moves is ridiculous for me. I was about to give up on this too. Tried a different F2L about 30 minutes in. 

Found in 37 minutes.


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## okayama (Aug 2, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> scramble: R' F2 L' R' F2 U2 L' F2 L F2 L' B R' U' L U2 B' D R2 B'
> 
> 2x2x3+EO: U2 B U2 F' U D' L' F' R'
> edges+1 corner: F2 D2 F' D F2
> ...


According to IF:

2x2x3+EO: U2 B [@1] U2 F' U D' L' F' R'
edges+1 corner: F2 D2 F' D F2

Insert at [@1]: U' (R' B L2 B' R B L2 [@2] B') U
Insert at [@2]: U' F' [@3] U B' U' F U B
Insert at [@3]: F2 U B U' F2 U B' U'

resulted in 27 moves in total.

Now IF seems to be able to do 1-move setup.


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## okayama (Aug 2, 2013)

JackJ said:


> F' D' B' D' F2 D F' R F2 D B U' F2 B' R' B' D B' U F2 D2 R D2 L R
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



OLL: F' L' U L U L' U' L F

results in 29 moves.


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## BQ (Aug 2, 2013)

okayama said:


> Now IF seems to be able to do 1-move setup.



Yes! I added the feature some days ago.


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## Sebastien (Aug 5, 2013)

Hi Baiqiang, while I appreciate the new features, I dislike that 8 movers are apparently not prefered when finding insertions. I often get 9 or 10 movers now with just 1 or 2 moves more cancelation at the same place where an 8 miover could be inserted with exactly the same outcome. I don't know the code of the IF, but wouldn't it be quite easy to set a higher priority on pur 8 movers?


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## MarcelP (Aug 5, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Hi Baiqiang, while I appreciate the new features, I dislike that 8 movers are apparently not prefered when finding insertions. I often get 9 or 10 movers now with just 1 or 2 moves more cancelation at the same place where an 8 miover could be inserted with exactly the same outcome. I don't know the code of the IF, but wouldn't it be quite easy to set a higher priority on pur 8 movers?



My program is not yet ready suitable for release but it searches pure commutators first, then with set-up moves.. So it finds the 8 mover first, and if the total move count is lower than with a set-up move (even with set-up move you should be able to cancel more moves) it does not choose the pure commutator.


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## BQ (Aug 6, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Hi Baiqiang, while I appreciate the new features, I dislike that 8 movers are apparently not prefered when finding insertions. I often get 9 or 10 movers now with just 1 or 2 moves more cancelation at the same place where an 8 miover could be inserted with exactly the same outcome. I don't know the code of the IF, but wouldn't it be quite easy to set a higher priority on pur 8 movers?



The feature for setups was just easily added by extending the algorithms. The IF finds one or more optimal insertions at a time. But it gives the first one found. Now I'm going to fix the problem. I want to print out all optimal results order by the moves of insertions. Do you have any other ideas?


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## porkynator (Aug 7, 2013)

from fmc.mustcube.net, round #462 (still running), no time limit
Scramble: F' B' L' R U2 F' D2 F2 U' D L' D2 U B' U D L D R' F2 B U2 F2 R' U2 F' D R' B' D'


Spoiler



R' U R2 L B2 //2x2x2 (5/5)
D R2 D' R //2x2x1 + one pair (4/9)
U' F //Pseudo F2L-1 + 2 pairs (2/11)
R' B * U' B' U2 R U //All But 3 corners (7/18)
* = B2 U F U' B2 U F' U' //Corners 3-cycle, 2 moves cancel out (6/24)
Final solution: R' U R2 L B2 D R2 D' R U' F R' B' U F U' B2 U F' U2 B' U2 R U (24 HTM)


I tied my no time limit PB


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## Sebastien (Aug 7, 2013)

BQ said:


> The feature for setups was just easily added by extending the algorithms. The IF finds one or more optimal insertions at a time. But it gives the first one found. Now I'm going to fix the problem. I want to print out all optimal results order by the moves of insertions. Do you have any other ideas?



Yes, that would fix it I guess. I have no other ideas currently.


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## BQ (Aug 8, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Yes, that would fix it I guess. I have no other ideas currently.



Now the IF gives all optimal results it found. Here's one case: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/2d5f727c8770cdc8b594586a4b86ab1e.cube


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## mycube (Aug 10, 2013)

Can anyone explain me, why the IF can't find the optimal solution for this skeleton?
http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=175659#pid175659

Laura found this in the German forum competition some weeks ago and I can't explain it to myself. Maybe it is because there is a 9 move cancellation?


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## Brest (Aug 10, 2013)

mycube said:


> Can anyone explain me, why the IF can't find the optimal solution for this skeleton?
> http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=175659#pid175659
> 
> Laura found this in the German forum competition some weeks ago and I can't explain it to myself. Maybe it is because there is a 9 move cancellation?



Seems to work okay. There was an update recently iirc.


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## BQ (Aug 10, 2013)

mycube said:


> Can anyone explain me, why the IF can't find the optimal solution for this skeleton?
> http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=175659#pid175659
> 
> Laura found this in the German forum competition some weeks ago and I can't explain it to myself. Maybe it is because there is a 9 move cancellation?



Yeah, you are right. The IF consumes that after any insertion the moves should be more than before.

And, I have a question. Since Laura found a insertion with 9 moves cancellation, why didn't he do the L4C like _U2 B2 R' D' U R' D R2 U' R'_? I think that skeleton can be easy found.


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## okayama (Aug 11, 2013)

My winning solution from Tachikawa 3x3 Fest 2013.

Scramble: D2 R2 U2 R' D2 B2 D2 L2 U' B2 R2 F' D2 U L F' L2 U' L2
Solution: D2 F U D F2 U R' U2 L2 F2 L U2 F2 R U' R' L' U L2 U L' U L U2 R2 (25 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: L R2

Orient edges: D2 F
2x2x2 block: U D F2 U R'
2x2x3 block: U2 L2 F2 L
F2L minus 1 slot: U2 F2 R U' R'
Finish F2L: L' U L
LL: L U L' U L U2 L'
Correction: L R2

Relatively easy scramble, but I couldn't find any better solution in the remaining time.


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## porkynator (Aug 12, 2013)

fmc.mustcube.net round 463, no time limit.
Scramble: L' B U D L' R' D2 B L2 R' F2 U' F2 L2 F2 L' R U D2 L D2 L R' U D R' F2 D' B2 F' 


Spoiler



Method: Columns (lol) with insertions
D2 F2 L U' L2 B' U B + //Pairs
U L' R * D' U F B' //Centres
* = R2 D2 R2 D2 R2 D2 //Some Edges
+ = B U' F' ° U B' U' F U //Corners
° = F D' F' D U' R D R' D' U //Edges
Final Solution: D2 F2 L U' L2 B' U B2 U' D' F' D U' R D R' D' U2 B' U' F U2 L' R' D2 R2 D2 R2 D U F B' (32 HTM, 30 STM and 26 ATM if I counted correctly)


It was fun to play with this method, but looking for 3 insertions is a pain.


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## Sebastien (Aug 12, 2013)

BQ said:


> Since Laura found a insertion with 9 moves cancellation, why didn't he do the L4C like _U2 B2 R' D' U R' D R2 U' R'_? I think that skeleton can be easy found.



Laura is a "she".  

That's the cool thing about insertions. You don't have to see things like that for making your skeleton, because if you're able to find the according insertion you will end up with this anyway.


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## Cubenovice (Aug 12, 2013)

N8W8 2013 FMC podium

1 Robert - 31 HTM
1 Sebastien - 31 HTM
1 Cubenovice - 31 HTM

Scramble: L2 D2 L2 B D2 F' D2 U2 F' D2 F' L U L2 F' U' B D' U2

My (too) simple solution:



Spoiler



On inverse:
U2 F L D2 B' U - 222 plus pair - 6
D2 F L' F2 L - XXcross plus pair - 11
R' F R - F2L-1 with edges oriented - 14
F' D' F2 D F2 D' F2 D - leaves 2C2E (Y-perm) - 22

Here I noted the inverse as solution up to 2C2E to check my solution so far.
D' F2 D F2 . D' F2 D F R' F' R L' F2 L F' D2 U' B D2 L' *F'* U2
And  now the 2C2E are already in a 10 move LL alg configuration: *F'* R F' U2 B L' B' U2 F2 R'
And since none of these pieces are in the U-layer I perform this alg before the final U2 so it cancels the first move.

Final solution:
D' F2 D F2 D' F2 D F R' F' R L' F2 L F' D2 U' B D2 L' *F2* R F' U2 B L' B' U2 F2 R' U2 = 31 HTM


Alternative:
at . insert F2 L' F L F2 R' L' F L F' R - two move cancel but since the insertion is 11 moves the net total is the same.


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## Robert-Y (Aug 13, 2013)

This is my solution. I'll just give the skeleton to 3 corners.

R' B D' F' U' F' - 2x2x2 block
B' L U' L' - simple expansion to 2x2x3
L' U R' U' L - expand to pseudo F2L-1
R U' R U2 F' U' F - complete pseudo F2L and EO
R' U2 - permute edges on right, then correct the top layer, leaving 3 corners

This totals to 23 moves to 3 corners.

I fail at insertions :fp


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## porkynator (Aug 13, 2013)

Can anyone find a good continuation?

Scramble: D' U' B2 U' L2 D2 U' R2 U' L2 U' F D F2 L F' L' D' R' F' R2
On normal:
L' U L U B
Switch to inverse with premoves B' U' L' U' L:
B' L' D F' R' D' (F2L-1 in 11 HTM)

The best I could find was a 34 HTM solution without insertions or a 17 HTM skeleton leaving 2 edges flipped, 2 other edges swapped, 2 corners swapped and 1 other corner twisted (sounds awful, but can be solved with 2 inserted algs).


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## Sebastien (Aug 13, 2013)

U F R F' R' U' R2 U' B' R B U R2 leaves 2 twisted corners --> 30

U R F R' F' U' R' F R F' U' R' U R2 leaves 3 corners --> 32

still not very satisfying...


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## kinch2002 (Aug 13, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> N8W8 2013 FMC
> Scramble: L2 D2 L2 B D2 F' D2 U2 F' D2 F' L U L2 F' U' B D' U2


This is what I found:
2x2x2: U F L2 F2 D (5)
But, insert 2 moves to make it a 2x2x3: U R2 D' F L2 F2 D (7) _Note that the R2 places the extra edge and the D' sets up the YB edge (and luckily the YBR corner) to where they will need to be_
Some EO + pair: B' U' B (10)
Square + pair : L U L2 (13)
Place them, leaving 4 corners: F U F' (16)
I couldn't be bothered to insert, but IF tells me 26 is optimal
Incidentally, 26 moves would have made UK NR a 4-way tie (3 for me, 1 for Rob)


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## Noahaha (Aug 14, 2013)

Hey guys! I know I'm a little late for this, but here are my solutions from worlds. Critique is welcome. I know insertions and premoves, but I haven't gotten around to figuring out NISS. Solve 1 was my first time using a premove. XD


*Solve 1: 34*

Scramble: U2 R' U F' L2 F' B' U' R U' F' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2

R' F R' D R F' D' - 2x2x2 (7/7)
B' L U' L' U' - 2x2x3 (5/12)
D L' D' - Pseudo F2L minus a corner (3/15)
(premove L')
R D' R' D * B D B' D' - To 4 corners (8/23)

* = U ** B D B' U' B D' B' - To 3 corners (2/25)
** = B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U - Last 3 corners (8/33)
L' - Undo premove (1/34)

Solution without cancellations:

R' F R' D R F' D' B' L U' L' U' D L' D' R D' R' D (U (B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U) B D B' U' *B D' B') B D B'* D' L'

Final solution: 
R' F R' D R F' D' B' L U' L' U' D L' D' R D' R' D U B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U B D B' U' D' L'

NOTES: I got pretty lucky with the F2L, but I am proud of myself for inserting correctly even though I couldn't find any cancellations for the second one.


*Solve 2: 31*

Scramble: D' L2 R2 F2 D R2 D2 R D B2 F U' L B R F2 R2 D' U

F2 U2 B D' R - 2x2x2 (5/5)
L U B2 U' - Pseudo 2x2x3 (4/9)
(Premove B)
B D B' L D2 L D2 B D' B' - Pseudo F2L (10/19)
(Premove L2)
B' D F' D2 B D' B' D2 B F D2 - L perm LL (10/29 not counting cancelled move)
L2 B - Undo premoves (2/31)

Final solution: F2 U2 B D' R L U B2 U' B D B' L D2 L D2 B D' B2 D F' D2 B D' B' D2 B F D2 L2 B

NOTES: I'm not sure if this is a lol solution. On one hand, I used two premoves and had some nice blockbuilding at the beginning, but on the other, the end of F2L was very lucky and I got an OLL skip that cancelled into one of the shortest PLLs.


Any advice is welcome.


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## ottozing (Aug 14, 2013)

Better L perms for FMC:

F2 L' U' L F2 R' D R' D' R2
R2 D R D' R F2 L' U L F2

That's all I've really got though. My FMC had the exact same pseudo 2x2x3 solution as you and ended with easy F2L into 1LLL (With the same 2 premoves as well ).


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## porkynator (Aug 14, 2013)

In that case you could also use a pair 3-cycle, so that you don't have to AUF: R2 U' B2 U B2 D' B2 D B2 R2 (you can see it as [ R2 : U' B2 U, Fw2 ]). But you a cancellation, so the result is the same


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## Sebastien (Aug 15, 2013)

Got 29 on the current FMC Mustcube Scramble (quite hard one in my opinion) and forgot again to add the slashes. 

Did the page get fixed meanwhile?


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## okayama (Aug 15, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Got 29 on the current FMC Mustcube Scramble (quite hard one in my opinion) and forgot again to add the slashes.
> 
> Did the page get fixed meanwhile?


I don't think so, unfortunately.
You should submit it again with backslashes.


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## ryn ball (Aug 15, 2013)

Hello FMC thread, I did FMC at this random scramble: D' F' R' U' L2 R' F' U B2 R' L F D2 U2 B R' F2 D B2 F D' L D' F2 R2
Here's my partial solution: 
B2 R2 D2 R D' (1x2x2 5/5)
U' L R' D2 R2 B R' (back block 7/12)
F2 L F' L' R U' R' (EO 7/19)
U2 F U' F' U F2 (6/25)
I'm currently stuck at this Last 3 corners , what is your solution here? Thanks!


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## Sebastien (Aug 15, 2013)

Insertions? 

B2 R2 D2 R D' U' L R' D2 R2 B [@1] R' F2 L F' L' R U' R' U2 F U' F' U F2
Insert at @1: B' L B R B' L' B R'
Fewest moves: 30. 3 moves cancelled
The final solution: B2 R2 D2 R D' U' L R' D2 R2 L B R B' L' B R2 F2 L F' L' R U' R' U2 F U' F' U F2



okayama said:


> I don't think so, unfortunately.
> You should submit it again with backslashes.



Hm, might do this later. Unfortunately I closed the window before thinking about it, so I have to write it all again. Has anyone tried to ask Per personally about this yet?


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## ryn ball (Aug 15, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Insertions?
> 
> B2 R2 D2 R D' U' L R' D2 R2 B [@1] R' F2 L F' L' R U' R' U2 F U' F' U F2
> Insert at @1: B' L B R B' L' B R'
> ...



Thanks!!  Atm I'm not good at insertions and commutators due to this I seldom do FMC but I love FMC and I'm kinda noobish at FMC


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## mehdi-roshan (Aug 16, 2013)

from fmc.mustcube.net, round #462 , no time limit


Scramble: F' B' L' R U2 F' D2 F2 U' D L' D2 U B' U D L D R' F2 B U2 F2 R' U2 F' D R' B' D' 
invers: D B R D' F U2 R F2 U2 B' F2 R D' L' D' U' B U' D2 L D' U F2 D2 F U2 R' L B F


invers :

2x2x3 Block : B' F U' L' R' [1] F' R2 F' D' F2 //(10/10)
All but 3 corners : U' B R' U R B2 U //(7/17)

Insert at [1]: R F' L F R' [2] F' L' F 
Insert at [2]: R' B R F' R' B' R F


final solution: U' B2 R' U' R B' U F2 D F L R B R F R' B' R2 F' L' F L U F' B //(25 HTM)


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## okayama (Aug 16, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think so, unfortunately.
> ...


FYI: I tried to contact him with PM, gmail, youtube etc., but still no response. :fp


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## porkynator (Aug 17, 2013)

I'm quite proud of the solution I found today in a 1-hr time limit FMC, so I wanted to share it. It's not my best result if you consider only the number of moves (29, and yesterday I got a 26) but it's nice, in my opinion, since I did some "non-standard" blockbuilding and two insertions (one of which isn't a 3-cycle).

Scramble: R2 U2 F' R2 D2 U2 B2 D2 R2 U2 B' L D' L' F R' U' L2 D' F2 L' 
Solution: R2 D L' D' R D L B' R' B2 R2 D' R' D2 B' D' U R2 U' D F' R' B' R U D' F U L (29 HTM)

On inverse scramble (L F2 D L2 U R F' L D L' B U2 R2 D2 B2 U2 D2 R2 F U2 R2)
L' U' F' D U' F //2x2x2 (6/6)
F' R' B R F //2x2x1, 2 moves cancel out (3/9)
D' U R2 U' //Another 2x2x1 (4/13)
* B2 R' B R B + D' R //All but 2 edges (flipped) and 3 corners (cycle) (7/20)

* = D B D2 R D R2 B R B2 //Orient 2 edges, 5 moves cancel out (4/24)
+ = L' D' R' D L D' R D //Corners 3-cycle, 3 moves cancel out (5/29)

Final Solution (to be inverted): L' U' F' D U' R' B R FD' U R2 U' D B D2 R D R2 B2 R B L' D' R' D L D' R2 (29 HTM)

Also, IF says 31 is optimal for that skeleton (after selecting "corners 3-cycle", "edges 3-cycle", "edge flip" and "other").


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## BQ (Aug 19, 2013)

porkynator said:


> Also, IF says 31 is optimal for that skeleton (after selecting "corners 3-cycle", "edges 3-cycle", "edge flip" and "other").



The IF doesn't contain any 2-edges flip algorithms because of they're useless in normal. Maybe I should add it.


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## CubeRoots (Aug 23, 2013)

insertion finder seems to be broken. It's not recognising that 

scramble: U2 B2 D F2 R2 D B2 F2 L2 U2 B D' L2 F2 R D2 R F' L

skeleton: L U L F’ L’ B U’ R’ U’ R B U B2 U' L' B2 L B'

gives 4 corners


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## okayama (Aug 23, 2013)

CubeRoots said:


> insertion finder seems to be broken. It's not recognising that
> 
> scramble: U2 B2 D F2 R2 D B2 F2 L2 U2 B D' L2 F2 R D2 R F' L
> 
> ...


You should use ' for primes instead of ’


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## okayama (Aug 24, 2013)

My solutions from Cube Camp in Kanazawa 2013.

1st scramble: B2 R F2 B' L2 D2 B' R' D2 F' U F2 B2 L' B2 R2 L U2
1st solution: R' D' F R' F' L F R F' L B' L' F2 R D R D' R2 D' R D2 R2 B R2 B' R F B2 (28 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: B R2 B' (EO) R F B2 (pseudoness correction)

Two squares: R' D' *
2x2x3 block: L2 B' L' F2
More square: R D R D'
All but 3 corners: R2 D' R D2 R2
Correction: B R2 B' R F B2

Insert at *: F R' F' L F R F' L'

I believe this scramble has potential for Sub 27, but I couldn't find any better solution in the remaining time. 



2nd scramble: U2 L2 U2 F L2 F' U2 F' L2 U2 F2 L D' B' D' B U' F L B
2nd solution: L' B D L2 R B U' L2 F' L R U2 R' F' R U R' F2 U F L F' R F' L' F R' F' U2 (29 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

2x2x2 block: L' B D L2 R B
2x2x3 block: U' L2 F' L
More square: R U2 R' F'
More c/e pair: R U R'
All but 3 corners: F2 U F L F2 * L' U2

Insert at *: F R F' L' F R' F' L



3rd scramble: D' R2 U F' R2 D2 B' R2 L' F R F2 L' U2 R2 B2 L B2 U2
3rd solution: U2 R' U2 D2 L' U' L U2 D2 R' U2 F2 U' F' U F2 L F' L' F R U R' L2 F L U2 R D' B2 (30 moves)


Spoiler



NISS solve.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: U' R2 U2

2x2x2 block: B2 D R'
2x2x3 block: U2 L' F' L2
F2L minus 1 slot: R U' R'

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: R U R' L2 F L U2 R D' B2

F2L minus 1 slot: U2 R2 * U
More 2 c/e pairs: F2 U' F' U [@1]
All but 3 edges: F2 L F' L' F
Correction: R U R' L2 F L U2 R D' B2

I don't have enough time to find an insertion, so I quickly did:

Insert at *: R U2 D2 L' U' L U2 D2 R' U (= R E2 R' U' R E2 R' U)

One of the optimal insertion is:

Insert at @1: U2 Fw2 U2 L' U2 Fw2 U2 L'

which results in 29 moves.



1st scramble seems to be a great scramble, and actually Yuki Tanaka got 25 moves for that.
The best solve for the 2nd scramble was 26 moves by Hideki Niina, and the best solve for
the 3rd scramble was 27 moves by Wataru Hashimura.

... so I couldn't stand on the podium, my god :fp

But I'm still proud of my results as mean of 3: 28, 29, 30 = 29, ranked in the second in the world.
First is (of course) Sébastien Auroux: 25, 23, 30 = 26.00, and third is Hideki Niina: 28, 26, 35 = 29.67.

I also improved my average of 12: 27, 29, 30, 31, 28, 27, 29, 31, (DNF), 28, (25), 28 = 28.8


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## YukiTanaka (Aug 26, 2013)

Hello, I'm Yuki Tanaka, a Japanese cuber.
My solution of Cube Camp Kanazawa 1st scramble.

scramble : B2 R F2 B' L2 D2 B' R' D2 F' U F2 B2 L' B2 R2 L U2
solution : B R' D' F' B L B L B2 D B' D' L D L2 F' R' F L F' R F2 L F' D (25 moves)

2x2x2 : B R' D' F'
2x2x3 : B L B2
psuedo-F2L#3 : B' L B2 D B'
making a corner edge pair and part of EP : D' L D
making 1x2x2 on L surface : L' * F L F'
premove : D
insert at * : L' F' R' F L F' R F (2 moves cansel)

Many others did in the same way to make 2x2x3 block though, all went well after that in my solution.
It was very lucky and much improved my PB. (including my unofficial best : 28 )
2nd and 3rd was poor and my mean is 25 33 33 = 30.33, (oh, not sub30...)

But both best and mean is too good for me. I'd practice more to make sub30 again.


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## okayama (Aug 31, 2013)

Quite interesting case where 10-move commutator beats 8-move commutator.
From the 1st scramble of Cube Camp in Kanazawa 2013.

Scramble: B2 R F2 B' L2 D2 B' R' D2 F' U F2 B2 L' B2 R2 L U2
Skeleton: U D' F' D2 U' R2 U L2 U' L F [@1] L U L2 U' L2 F' L F U L' U' R (premove R)

Hideki Niina got 28 moves by inserting an 8-move commutator, but IF gives
Insert at @1: F' L U' L' U F U' L U L' = [F', L U' L' U]
which results in 27 moves. 

And his nice 26-move solution for the 2nd scramble:

Scramble: U2 L2 U2 F L2 F' U2 F' L2 U2 F2 L D' B' D' B U' F L B
Solution: L B L' U R U' L2 U2 R B' U R' B F U2 F' U B F' U B2 U' F U B U (26 moves)


Spoiler



Cross with some preparation: L B L' U R U' L2
More slot: U2
Store the slot: R B' U R' B
XX-cross: F U2 F'
F2L minus 1 slot: U B * U B'
All but 3 corners: U

Insert at *: F' U B2 U' F U B2 U'


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## porkynator (Sep 1, 2013)

I found a nice solution for fmc.mustcube.net round #466 (contest still running) in 90 minutes (so no time limit):


Spoiler



Scramble: B2 U2 R' U L' F' B2 L2 F2 L' R D2 B2 F L2 U2 L R2 U F2 R2 L F2 L2 R F2 B L' B2 U' 
Right after submitting my 29 HTM 1-hour solution, I found out that the last 10 moves were a 3-cycle of edges (stupid me). I found this incredible insertion in 30 more minutes:

R2 D2 B2 F2 L * F B' //EO + blocks (7/7)
+ U' F2 L F2 B2 D' //All but 3 edges and 3 corners (6/13)
* = R B' R' F R B R' F' //3 corners (6/19)
+ = L2 B2 R2 D B2 L2 F2 U //3 edges, 5 moves cancel out (3/22)

no time limit PB!


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## stevecho816 (Sep 1, 2013)

From weekly comp 2013-35 

Scramble: L2 R2 F D2 B R2 U2 R2 U2 F U' F R2 U' R' D U2 R' U' F' 

My solution

2x2: D F R U2 R2 U' R' U 
2x2x3: R2 D B' 
Expand: R' D R' 
Solve the edges: D2 F' R F 
Solve the last 3 corners: R2 F D F' D' F' R F D F D' F' 

D F R U2 R2 U' R' U R2 D B' R' D R' D2 F' R F R2 F D F' D' F' R F D F D' F' = 30 moves

Instead of solving the 3 corners last, how would I do insertions?


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## mycube (Sep 1, 2013)

this would be optimal:
D F R U2 R2 U' [@1] R' U R2 D B' R' D R' D2 F' R F R'
Insert at @1: U F' D' F U' F' D F
-> 25 Moves

search a commutator in the solution, which solves the three corners 

edit:
there is already a commutator at the and of the solution possible which cancels one move:
D F R U2 R2 U' R' U R2 D B' R' D R' D2 F' R F R'
R' F L' F' R F L F' -> 26 Moves


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## MarcelP (Sep 1, 2013)

stevecho816 said:


> Instead of solving the 3 corners last, how would I do insertions?



http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42607-Insertions-a-powerfull-tool-for-FMC


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## MatejMuzatko (Sep 3, 2013)

Hey, with Heise-style solving, when you finish the cube and are left with 2 unsolved c/e pairs, what would you do? Only thing that comes in my mind now is to insert a PLL somewhere .. Thanks


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## EMI (Sep 3, 2013)

MatejMuzatko said:


> Hey, with Heise-style solving, when you finish the cube and are left with 2 unsolved c/e pairs, what would you do? Only thing that comes in my mind now is to insert a PLL somewhere .. Thanks



I think that's the best you can do. Optimal J-/ L-/ T-perm. Just try around with different optimal PLL and find one that cancels.


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## porkynator (Sep 3, 2013)

MatejMuzatko said:


> Hey, with Heise-style solving, when you finish the cube and are left with 2 unsolved c/e pairs, what would you do? Only thing that comes in my mind now is to insert a PLL somewhere .. Thanks



If you want to stick to intuitive solving you can use this intuive J-perm (done as a pair 3-cycle):

U' [ B2 : D L2 D' , Rw2 ]

It isn't optimal, unless the AUF cancels out, but it is intuitive.


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## MatejMuzatko (Sep 3, 2013)

EMI said:


> Just try around with different optimal PLL and find one that cancels.







porkynator said:


> :
> 
> U' [ B2 : D L2 D' , Rw2 ]




Thank you very much  
Another one: How do you deal with twisted corners? I had it in one solve and twisting it stupid way took me like 10 moves...


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## porkynator (Sep 4, 2013)

MatejMuzatko said:


> Thank you very much
> Another one: How do you deal with twisted corners? I had it in one solve and twisting it stupid way took me like 10 moves...



If you can't avoid them, this is optimal:
[ F L' D2 L F', U2 ]


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## okayama (Sep 4, 2013)

okayama said:


> For personal interest, I investigated the best average of 12 in the official results of the top rankers (single <= 32).
> 
> (previous list)
> 
> NB: You can see the rank of "mean of 3" on WCA: Missing Averages->333fm.



Updated.

Sébastien Auroux 26, 26, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, 30, (DNF), 28, 25, (23) = 26.8 
 Daniel Sheppard 29, 28, (26), 27, (DNF), 31, 27, 28, 26, 31, 31, 29 = 28.7
Tomoaki Okayama 27, 29, 30, 31, 28, 27, 29, 31, (DNF), 28, (25), 28 = 28.8
Tim Reynolds 27, 35, 29, 30, 26, 33, 33, 33, 31, (DNF), (24), 30 = 30.7
Mario Laurent (37), 32, (28), 36, 31, 31, 32, 34, 37, 33, 30, 29 = 32.5
Simon Westlund 29, 34, 34, 31, (27), 34, 36, 32, (37), 33, 34, 28 = 32.5
Shuang Chen 33, 41, (42), 34, 30, 33, 31, 30, (28), 32, 32, 32 = 32.8
Clément Gallet 34, 33, 33, 35, 35, (29), 35, (39), 29, 35, 34, 31 = 33.4
Erik Akkersdijk 33, 31, 31, (40), 30, 33, 32, 33, 37, 35, (26), 39 = 33.4
Timothy Sun (30), (41), 34, 34, 32, 34, 35, 35, 32, 37, 32, 31 = 33.6
Bence Barát 35, 36, 32, 36, (39), (30), 36, 35, 34, 38, 33, 35 = 35.0
Piotr Kózka (39), 35, (33), 34, 35, 35, 36, 33, 33, 37, 38, 36 = 35.2
Michał Pleskowicz 38, (28), 40, 35, 32, 39, 41, 37, 29, (47), 31, 33 = 35.5
Maarten Smit 34, 36, 40, 37, 31, 38, 37, (43), 38, 32, 34, (30) = 35.7
Arnaud van Galen 35, 36, (28), 35, 43, 45, 31, 29, 34, 40, (DNF), 36 = 36.4
Yunqi Ouyang (29), (40), 35, 46, 40, 35, 36, 36, 39, 37, 36, 32 = 37.2
Mike Hughey 37, 33, 46, 39, 38, (31), 44, 33, (DNF), 35, 35, 32 = 37.2
Lorenzo Vigani Poli (DNF), 37, 47, 39, 38, 39, 42, 39, 36, 31, (29), 33 = 38.1
Jules Desjardin 42, 45, 35, 39, 38, 38, 40, 42, (29), (DNF), 38, 32 = 38.9
Dániel Varga (DNF), 36, 39, 48, 42, 43, 35, 41, 42, (30), 41, 33 = 40.0
Bob Burton (34), (52), 40, 40, 43, 47, 40, 38, 45, 40, 40, 45 = 41.8
Henrik Buus Aagaard 39, 39, 44, 43, (DNF), 51, (29), 43, 47, 41, 40, 37 = 42.4
Kåre Krig (39), 39, (48), 42, 46, 44, 46, 40, 44, 41, 46, 47 = 43.5
Others DNF

Welcome to the list, Daniel Sheppard and Jules Desjardin!


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## Zane_C (Sep 4, 2013)

What the f**k, while waiting for a download to finish I decided to do a very quick FMC solve (no writing anything down, just counting moves as I go along).

I found a 20 move solution in about 3 minutes. Very lucky obviously... I wouldn't say lucky scramble, but I was lucky in that my solution unintentionally worked out extremely well.

Scramble: U2 L2 F2 L2 U2 B D2 U2 B2 R2 F D' R' U2 B2 U2 F R' U L' U' 



Spoiler



Solution:
2x2x2: L2 B' L' B R' F2 R
2x2x3 pseudo block: F' L' F' L'
F2L-1: D F D' F2 D' L'
F2L+LL: R F' R'


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## MatejMuzatko (Sep 4, 2013)

Zane_C said:


> What the f**k, while waiting for a download to finish I decided to do a very quick FMC solve (no writing anything down, just counting moves as I go along).
> 
> I found a 20 move solution in about 3 minutes. Very lucky obviously... I wouldn't say lucky scramble, but I was lucky in that *my solution unintentionally worked out extremely well.*



Happens :-D I know that feel, I found 27 move solution in 7.82 (while speedsolving)... I average around 50 on FMC and around 15 on 3x3... Hug me...


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## Ollie (Sep 4, 2013)

Zane_C said:


> What the f**k, while waiting for a download to finish I decided to do a very quick FMC solve (no writing anything down, just counting moves as I go along).
> 
> I found a 20 move solution in about 3 minutes. Very lucky obviously... I wouldn't say lucky scramble, but I was lucky in that my solution unintentionally worked out extremely well.
> 
> ...



You mad bro


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## kinch2002 (Sep 4, 2013)

Can anybody find a good finish? i.e. sub-30

R2 L F U F2 R L2 D F2 D' F2 R2 U R' L D2 F2 B L2 R F' B2 L2 D2 L'

2x2x2: U L2 R U F (5)
2x2x3: D' L2 D2 *B'* L' (10)
F2L-1: D' B' (12)

Changing the *B'* to a B also gives an interesting continuation (14 move F2L-1+EO)
I keep finding 21/22 moves to PLL. Other than that I had 4 corners in 19 I think (so probably sub-30 actually), but that doesn't interest me so much given the great start.


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## mycube (Sep 4, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> Can anybody find a good finish? i.e. sub-30
> 
> R2 L F U F2 R L2 D F2 D' F2 R2 U R' L D2 F2 B L2 R F' B2 L2 D2 L'
> 
> ...



I found this:
U L2 R U F D' L2 D2 L' - your 2x2x3
D2 R' B' R
D2 L' D L D'
4 corners in 18 moves, if says 26 moves are optimal


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## Torch (Sep 4, 2013)

Any tips for this FMC solve? 

D R B L' F' B' D U' B2 U2 R2 D L' B' F' D2 L F B' L' F2 D B' R' F

B' D F B* D//2x2x2
U' F U F2 L2//pseudo2x3x3
R U' R2 F' R//EO
F U F U F2 U F U F U' F U//All but 3 corners
L'//correct pseudo
Insert at* B L2 B' R' B L2 B' R

Solution: B' D F B2 L2 B' R' B L2 B' R D U' F U F2 L2 R U' R2 F' R F U F U F2 U F U F U' F U L' 35 moves


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## Brest (Sep 5, 2013)

coldsun0630 said:


> The Pre-scramble in the 3rd solution doesn't work. Maybe U R2 U2 is correct.



(U' R2 U2)
U2 B2 L' B2 R2 U2 L F2 R' F' L R2 B D2 R2 F U' R2 D

B2 D R'
U2 L' F' L2
R U' R'
View at alg.garron.us


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## coldsun0630 (Sep 5, 2013)

Brest said:


> (U' R2 U2)
> U2 B2 L' B2 R2 U2 L F2 R' F' L R2 B D2 R2 F U' R2 D
> 
> B2 D R'
> ...


Oh... I'm sorry
I think I scrambled wrong...


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## coldsun0630 (Sep 10, 2013)

My weird fewest moves solution.

/

Scramble: U R2 D B2 L2 D' L2 D B2 U2 L' F2 D' B' R U2 B2 R2 D
Solution: L' D L U R2 D L2 D' U2 B2 L' B R' B' L2 R2 U' B U B' L' B2 R B2 D B' D' B' D B' D' B2 D' R (34)

(Normal)
Pre-Scramble: D' R (2/2)
F2L-1: L' D L U R2 D L2 D' U2 B' [1] R' B' R' (13/15)
AB3C: R' L U' B U B' L' B2 R B2 D B' D' B' D B' D' B2 (17/32)

Insert at [1]: B' L' B R' B' L B R


Edit:

I found the solution from the scramble, but I got only 33 moves with it...
It looks nice, but I can't finish with any good solutions. (eventhough I tried on NISS..)
Anyone help?

/

Scramble: F R U' F2 D F2 U' R' F U' B' U' R' F2 U' R' B U2 B R2 U2 F L F L2



Spoiler: Part of the Solution



1x2x2: F L D F2 D' (5/5)
Psuedo 2x2x3: B' U F' D2 F' (5/10)
Lots of Pairs: B' R2 B2 (3/13)





Spoiler: My Solution



(Normal)
1x2x2: F L D F2 D' (5/5)
Psuedo 2x2x3: B' U F' D2 F' (5/10)
Lots of Pairs: B' R2 B2 (3/13)
Correct Some Pieces: R' B R2 D [1] B' (5/18)
3 Cycle of Pairs: R D2 R' D B D2 B' D' (8/26)
AB3C: D2 R D2 (2/28)

- Insert at [1]: D F D' B' D F' D' B

Solution: F L D F2 D' B' U F' D2 F' B' R2 B2 R' B R2 D2 F D' B' D F' D' R D2 R' D B D2 B' D R D2 (33)


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## porkynator (Sep 10, 2013)

I found 2 possible continuations:

1) Premoves: B R' D
B' R B R' U R2 U' * R //All but 2c2e
B R' D //Undo premoves
* = D' R2 U R' U' R2 D U R' U' R //2c2e, only 1 move cancels out (there are probably better insertions, but I don't know many way to do this at the moment)
Resulting in 33 HTM, or

2) R' B U R2 B R' B' R' U' R2 B' R D //All but 3 corners in 26
But sadly, according to IF 33 is optimal.

Can anyone help me with this?
Scramble: F2 D' F2 D' L2 D B2 U' L2 D2 U' R' D2 F D' B2 D R2 U2 R' L2 U'
Premove: F2
Pseudo Tripod: U' R2 U2 B' U2 R2 D' R L F' R U2 F B' U B F' (17)
L' U L gives all but 4 corners (28 optimal for IF), but anything better? Those 6 pieces left can also be solved with setup + sune somewhere, but I couldn't find anything.
P.S.: This pseudo-tripod isn't mine


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## coldsun0630 (Sep 10, 2013)

porkynator said:


> I found 2 possible continuations:
> 1) Premoves: B R' D


I found another solution from the premove. But it's still 34 moves..
...and how can I learn premoves?


Spoiler: The Solution



Pre-Scramble: B R' D (3/5)

1x2x2: F L D F2 [1] D' (5/8)
Psuedo 2x2x3: B' U F' D2 F' [2] (5/13)
Lots of Pairs: B' R2 B2 (3/16)
AB4C: B' R B U R U' R2 (6/22)

Insert at [1]: F' L2 F R F' L2 F R'
Insert at [2]: L B' R B L' B' R' B

Solution: F L D F L2 F R F' L2 F R' D' B' U F' D2 F' L B' R B L' B' R B R B U R U' R2 B R' D (34)





porkynator said:


> Can anyone help me with this?


IF failed to solve with 'other', but it finds other solution.


Spoiler: corner twist, edge 3-cycle insertion



U' R2 U2 B' U2 R2 D' R [@1] L F' R U2 F B' U B F' U F2
Insert at @1: F' R' F B D2 B' L2 [@2] F2 R F' L F' L
After the 1st insertion: U' R2 U2 B' U2 R2 D' R F' R' F B D2 B' L2 [@2] F2 R F' L F' L2 F' R U2 F B' U B F' U F2
Insert at @2: R L' U2 R' L F2
Fewest moves: 32. 6 moves cancelled
The final solution: U' R2 U2 B' U2 R2 D' R F' R' F B D2 B' L R U2 L F' L F' L2 F' R U2 F B' U B F' U F2


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## ben1996123 (Sep 10, 2013)

okso people who are good at fmc do this

F2 R B' L D R F R2 F D2 B2 R2 U D2 L2 B2 U F2

I got 35 but my solutation sucks alot



Spoiler



L F R' B2 R' B D2 F L' B L' B' L F' D2 R' B U R2 D' R2 U' R2 D R2 B' R B R' B2 R U' R U R'


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## porkynator (Sep 10, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> okso people who are good at fmc do this
> 
> F2 R B' L D R F R2 F D2 B2 R2 U D2 L2 B2 U F2
> 
> ...



Quick attempt (~10 minutes).


Spoiler



L F R D' R D B2 //Xcross + 2 pairs (7)
R' B R' B' //F2L#2 (4)
R2 U' R U2 R //F2L -1 move (5)
U2 R2 U R U' R U2 R2 U' R' U R' U' R' //2GLL (14)
30 HTM


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## whauk (Sep 11, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> okso people who are good at fmc do this
> 
> F2 R B' L D R F R2 F D2 B2 R2 U D2 L2 B2 U F2



lol i found this in ~15 min
double x-cross on inverse: F' U F' L2 F L
switch, going for the pseudo F2L: R
pair #3: B2 D B2 D' B R' B' R
finish everything: B L' D L D' B'
remove pseudoness: R'

everything:
R B2 D B2 D' B R' B' R B L' D L D' B' R' L' F' L2 F U' F
(22 HTM)

and surprisingly similiar to my european record (build double x-cross with 2 free pairs, switch and finish everything with very standard F2L-technique (plus everything took ~15 min)). only one move longer


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## antoineccantin (Sep 11, 2013)

porkynator said:


> U2 R2 U R U' R U2 R2 U' R' U R' U' R' //2GLL (14)



This isn't working for me.


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## CubeRoots (Sep 11, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> This isn't working for me.



you need to look at the solution as a whole. this isn't just a 2GLL alg. It does work


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## CubeRoots (Sep 11, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> okso people who are good at fmc do this
> 
> F2 R B' L D R F R2 F D2 B2 R2 U D2 L2 B2 U F2
> 
> ...



3 min solution

F scramble // 2x2x2
L B' U L2 B' // square
L U B L2 // two pairs 
B2 L B2 L' B' U B U' B // finish f2l
U B U' B' U' D L U L' D' // ELL (28 moves)

or you could use IF on the skeleton: L B' U L2 B' L U B L2 B2 L B2 L' B' U B U' B F

L B' U L2 B' L U B L2 B2 L B2 L' B' U [@1] B U' B F
Insert at @1: U' R' L F U F' R L' U B'
Fewest moves: 23. 6 moves cancelled
The final solution: L B' U L2 B' L U B L2 B2 L B2 L' B' R' L F U F' R L' B F


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## Sebastien (Sep 14, 2013)

FMC-Scramble from SH Open 2013 (today): R' D2 F2 L' U2 R U2 F2 U F D2 B F2 U2 F' L R2 F' R'

Nice start: F L' B' U2 B' D2

Can someone find a really good finish? It reminds me a lot of Okayama's start on his WR Solve.

My finish:



Spoiler



F2L: L U L2 U L' U2 L U' L' B'
ZBLL: B2 D F' L2 F D' B' U2 B' U2

Solution: F L' B' U2 B' D2 L U L2 U L' U2 L U' L' B D F' L2 F D' B' U2 B' U2

25 moves.



F L' B' U2 B' D2 L U L2 U2 L' U B' U' gives L5C in 14 but doesn't cancel much (26 is optimal).

F' U2 B2 R F2 B' L' U D L2 D' L R' U2 R' F R F' R gives L3C in 19 but this does also result in 25 moves...


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## kinch2002 (Sep 14, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> FMC-Scramble from SH Open 2013 (today): R' D2 F2 L' U2 R U2 F2 U F D2 B F2 U2 F' L R2 F' R'


I just did your start, then carried on myself and found a nice solution first time. Then I typed it up before realising that it's the same as your real solution :fp


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## porkynator (Sep 14, 2013)

I found this continuation:
L U L B'
R B' R' B2 U B' U2
That gives all but 2 edges and 2 corners in 17, but I'm a noob at inserting 2c2e swaps.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 14, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> FMC-Scramble from SH Open 2013 (today): R' D2 F2 L' U2 R U2 F2 U F D2 B F2 U2 F' L R2 F' R'
> 
> Nice start: F L' B' U2 B' D2



I found the easy L5C in 14 moves.

Silly alternative:
your start - 6
L' U' L2 U2 L U B' - 13 leaves a corner cycle plus 2C2E


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## uesyuu (Sep 14, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> FMC-Scramble from SH Open 2013 (today): R' D2 F2 L' U2 R U2 F2 U F D2 B F2 U2 F' L R2 F' R'
> 
> Nice start: F L' B' U2 B' D2



Premove: B' 
L U L2 U L' U2 L' B L B' L U' L' // L3C

So long...


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## CubeRoots (Sep 14, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> FMC-Scramble from SH Open 2013 (today): R' D2 F2 L' U2 R U2 F2 U F D2 B F2 U2 F' L R2 F' R'
> 
> Nice start: F L' B' U2 B' D2
> 
> ...



after spamming many ways to do f2l-1+eo i found this after your start: L B' U B L2 U2 F' L F L2 U2 B' U2 which leaves 3 corners. which is OK depending on cancellations. Turns out this doesn't cancel much either I could only cancel 1 move though IF says you can cancel 2 to get a 25 move solution.


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## sneze2r (Sep 16, 2013)

FM from Grudziądz Open, 2-nd scramble:
R B2 R F2 R2 B' R2 U' B D' R D2 B U2 B L2 F2 L2 F2 U2

I found short 2x2x3 in 5 minutes:
y B' R F R2 F D'(6)

then i tried to do a xxx-cross by y R' F' R F, but then i couldn't finish LL nicely, so i decided to do 

xxxcross+EOLL:
y U2 F' U' F' U F2(6/12)
F2l:
U' R U2 R' U R U' R'(8/20)
OLL+AUF:
L U L' U L U2 L' U'(8/28)

little bit lucky, but i don' care


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## Meneghetti (Sep 17, 2013)

sneze2r said:


> FM from Grudziądz Open, 2-nd scramble:
> R B2 R F2 R2 B' R2 U' B D' R D2 B U2 B L2 F2 L2 F2 U2
> 
> I found short 2x2x3 in 5 minutes:
> ...



congrats on your solve!
I found an interesting continuation for your R' F' R F xxx-cross thing, which gives L4C in 18 moves, resulting in a total of 26 moves, using the optimal insertions

L' B R B2 R D' // your 2x2x3
L' B' L B // your xxx-cross
B' U B L U L' U L U' L' // AB4C


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## okayama (Sep 17, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> FMC-Scramble from SH Open 2013 (today): R' D2 F2 L' U2 R U2 F2 U F D2 B F2 U2 F' L R2 F' R'
> 
> Nice start: F L' B' U2 B' D2
> 
> ...



I got exactly the same solution as yours (25-move).
This was the best I could do in 1-hour.


Another attempt after 1-hour:

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L' F

1st square: U L' D2
2nd square: R' U B
3rd square: L'
F2L minus 1 slot: U2 L' B *
All but 5 corners: D2 L' D2 L
Correction: L' F
Corner 3-cycle: F' D F U F' D' F U'

Insert at *: L U L' D2 L U' L' D2

24 moves in total.


Yet another attempt:

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L

2x2x1 block: F' U2
2x2x2 block: B2 * R F2
More square: L2 [@1] B'
More square: U2 L' B2
All but 4 corners: R' U' R
Correction: L

Insert at the beginning: D F' U' F D' F' U F
Insert at *: F L2 F' R F L2 F' R'

which also results in 24 moves. But IF says the optimal insertion is:

Insert at @1: L B' D R2 D' B L' B' D R2 D' B = [L, B' D R2 D' B]

which results in 23 moves.


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## kinch2002 (Sep 20, 2013)

D' B2 U L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D' L2 D' L D' R' D' L' R U
^^It's a nice scramble
Here are 4 solves. I think it's all mine apart from Rob Yau's ZBLL

Anyone care to do better?

Normal scramble with premove L'
2x2x3: D L U' L2 U' R D2 (7+1)
Leave 4 corners: L U' L' U' L U' L' (14)
Double insertion gives *23 moves*

Normal scramble with premove L'
2x2x3: D L U' L2 U' R D2 (7+1)
Leave 3 corners: U2 L U L' U L U L' U2 (17)
Insertion gives *24 moves*

Inverse scramble with premoves L' D2 R' U L2 U L' D'
F2L: L U2 L (11)
ZBLL: R2 D R' U R D' R2' U R U2 R' U (24)
*24 moves*

Inverse scramble with premoves L' D2 R' U L2 U L' D'
F2L leaving 4 corners: L2 U L' U L U (14)
Double insertion gives *23 moves*


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## elrog (Sep 21, 2013)

I wasn't sure whether I should post this here or in the BLD section, but I wanted to know if anyone has ever done a FMC BLD solve. In other words, you come up with a solution in the fewest moves that you can without doing any turns on the cube.


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## AndersB (Sep 21, 2013)

B D2 B' D2 L2 F' L' D F L U2 B2 D2 B U2 D2 L2 F R2

z2 R U2 L U2 L2 // 2x2
R U F2 U F R' B U' B' U F2 // XXX-Cross
U' F U F' U2 F R U' R' F2 // F2L + Forced OLL-skip
U B' U2 F U' F' U2 F B U' // PLL

36 HTM

Interesting scramble, I did this at the Swedish championship. Can you find a better continuation to that start?


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## kinch2002 (Sep 21, 2013)

You could have cancelled F2L into optimal L perm: F2 L' U' L F2 R' D R' D' R2


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## Iggy (Sep 22, 2013)

FMC from this week's Weekly Comp (still running)



Spoiler



Scramble: L2 U F2 L2 D2 F2 L2 D R2 B2 D B' D' B2 D F2 R' U2 B2 F2 

2x2x2: L' D2 F @1 L2 D L' U L
F2L-1: U' R2 B U' B U B' L' B' L
All edges: F' U' F U R U2 R' @2 U'

@1 = F' D2 F U2 F' D2 F U2
@2 = R U' L' U R' U' L

Final solution: L' F U2 F' D2 F U2 L2 D L' U L U' R2 B U' B U B' L' B' L F' U' F U R U L' U R' U' L U' (34)

Good for me. Tips?


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## Sebastien (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who looked into the scrmable from SH Open 2013. I'm happy I didn't miss any obvious great solution. 

A new challenge: 

1st scramble from this week's German forum competition: U' L B L' U' L B U' R L2 F2 D' R2 U' F2 B2 R2 F2 D 

EO+1x2x2 on inverse: F R2 F'

I absolutely failed to find a decent continuation, always ended up having parity. Is anyone willing to look into this?


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## Brest (Sep 25, 2013)

R' B2 F R2 F' // premoves (2x2x2)
U' L B L' U' L B U' R L2 F2 D' R2 U' F2 B2 R2 F2 D // scramble

F' U' L D' L' U // 2x2x3
L' F' L // EO & 2 pairs

end:
F D' F' D' F2 D F' // leaves 2 twist (IF gives 28)
or
F D2 F2 U F' D F U' F' // leaves 2e2c (insert?)
or
F D2 F D2 F D' F D F2 D2 F2 D F D' F D F // SuneLL (32 moves lol)


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## okayama (Sep 25, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> D' B2 U L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D' L2 D' L D' R' D' L' R U
> ^^It's a nice scramble
> Here are 4 solves. I think it's all mine apart from Rob Yau's ZBLL
> 
> ...



My 1-hour solve:

[1] U' R2 U B2 D2 B2 U' L' U L B2 D L2 D' L' D L' D' U' L2 U L2 D F2 (24 moves)


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: U' L2 U L2 D F2

2x2x2 block: U' R2 U
2x2x3 block: B2
F2L minus 1 slot: D2
Finish F2L: B2 U' L' U L B2
LL: D L2 D' L' D L' D'
Correction: U' L2 U L2 D F2



[2] U' R2 U B2 L' U' L D2 L' U L B2 U' L' U L B2 U' D L' U L F2 (23 moves)


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: U' L' U L D F2

2x2x2 block: U' R2 U
2x2x3 block: B2 +
F2L minus 1 slot: D2
All but 2 twisted corners: B2 U' L' U L B2
Correction: U' L' U L D * F2

Insert at *: D' L' U' L D L' U L (free insertion!)
Insert at +: L' U' L D2 L' U L D2



After 1-hour:

[3] B2 D2 L D L U2 F2 L' D' L U2 L' D L R U' L2 U R' U' F2 U (22 moves)


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: F2 U

2x2x2 block: B2 D'
More square: D' L D L
More square: U2
All but 5 corners: F2 U L2
Corner 3-cycle: L2 U * R U' L2 U R' U'
Correction: F2 U

Insert at *: U2 L' D' L U2 L' D L


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## Robert-Y (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm not sure if this is significant but I've noticed that your solutions preserve EO with every move.


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## Cubenovice (Sep 25, 2013)

Robert-Y said:


> I'm not sure if this is significant but I've noticed that your solutions preserve EO with every move.



For a scramble with all edges oriented this seems a logical approach for getting a short solution


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## coldsun0630 (Sep 26, 2013)

okayama said:


> My 1-hour solve:
> [/spoiler]


Wow...
How do you find these pre-scrambles?
I want to learn how to do the premoves...


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## okayama (Sep 26, 2013)

coldsun0630 said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > My 1-hour solve:
> ...



Scramble: D' B2 U L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D' L2 D' L D' R' D' L' R U

I found those premoves basically with NISS.
Firstly, I found the following start on the normal scramble:

Pseudo 2x2x2 block: U' R2 U
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: B2 D2

Using the start, I considered the inverse scramble as follows:

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: D2 B2 U' R2 U

2x2x2 block: F2
2x2x3 block: D'

Then I found two continuations:

[1] F2L minus 1 slot: L2 U' L2 U
[2] F2L minus 1 slot: L' U' L U

These gave me two options for premoves on the normal scramble:

[1] Pre-scramble: U' L2 U L2 D F2
[2] Pre-scramble: U' L' U L D F2

Using those premoves, I found the submitted two solutions.


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## coldsun0630 (Sep 27, 2013)

okayama said:


> Using those premoves, I found the submitted two solutions.



Using many pseudo blocks were impressive!
...and may I ask you how to find the 'good start' with premoves?
like the 3rd solution or FMC R465.


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## okayama (Sep 27, 2013)

coldsun0630 said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > Using those premoves, I found the submitted two solutions.
> ...


Trial & error with the help of NISS (and my experience, which is quite hard to explain).
For example, on FMC 465/classic (your URL points not 464, but 465), U makes two c/e
pairs on the normal scramble, which gave me a big hint of the premoves used in the
submitted solution.


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## coldsun0630 (Sep 27, 2013)

Thank you so much!
I think I have to practice a lot to get it...


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## Sebastien (Sep 30, 2013)

2nd scramble from the current German forum competition:

R' L2 U' B' D2 F L B' D R2 U' F2 U L2 F2 L2 F2 U2 L2 

My solution:



Spoiler



With Premove R2 on Inverse:

2x2x2+Blocks: U' D F'
Way more Blocks: F' D F D' B2 D L
3C3E: B D'

Skeleton: U' D F2 D F D' B2 D * L B D R2

* = R' F2 R B2 R' # F2 R B2
# = R B2 R' L U2 L'

Inverse Solution: U' D F2 D F D' B2 D R' F2 L U2 L' F2 R B2 L B D R2

Solution: R2 D' B' L' B2 R' F2 L U2 L' F2 R D' B2 D F' D' F2 D' U

20 moves.


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## okayama (Sep 30, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> 2nd scramble from the current German forum competition:
> 
> R' L2 U' B' D2 F L B' D R2 U' F2 U L2 F2 L2 F2 U2 L2
> 
> ...



wow... sweet! congrats.

I'm a bit interested in the domestic forum competition.
How often is the competition held? once a week?
How many scrambles are provided?
How many competitors participate in it usually?


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## Jakube (Sep 30, 2013)

okayama said:


> I'm a bit interested in the domestic forum competition.
> How often is the competition held? once a week?
> How many scrambles are provided?
> How many competitors participate in it usually?



There are 3 new scrambles each week. The main format is mean of 3, although there are single rankings with and without limits. Usually there a between 3 and 6 participants. Here is the thread on the german forum: http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&page=163


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## Sebastien (Sep 30, 2013)

Thanks. 

It is held once a week and 3 scrambles are provided. We rank both by Mean of 3 and Best of 3. The number of participants is usually between 3 and 8 people I'd say.

Edit: Ninja'd!


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## okayama (Oct 1, 2013)

Jakob, Sébastien, Thanks for the information.
It's nice to compete with Mean of 3 format. 

Non-German people also seem to join it, so I've just registered it.
Sometimes I may try the scrambles of the competition.


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## Cubenovice (Oct 1, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> 2nd scramble from the current German forum competition:
> 
> R' L2 U' B' D2 F L B' D R2 U' F2 U L2 F2 L2 F2 U2 L2
> 
> ...



Nice!
My attempt before opening your spoiler:

on inverse with premoves R2 L'
D U' L' F2 D' F L B2 L2 - F2L minus one corner in 11 moves
Doesn't look too bad but could not find a good finish...


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## guusrs (Oct 3, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> 2nd scramble from the current German forum competition:
> 
> R' L2 U' B' D2 F L B' D R2 U' F2 U L2 F2 L2 F2 U2 L2
> 
> ...



Lovely solution. Congratz!


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## Cubenovice (Oct 5, 2013)

My fail solution for the weekly comp...

Scramble: F D' F U F2 R' F' D B' L2 B2 L' F2 L D2 L F2 L B2 L'



Spoiler: Warning: weekly competition!!!



R' B D R L . F' D' L2 D2 - 2x2x3 - 9
R2 U' R' U - leaves 5 corners and 2 edges - 13
at . insert D B' D' F' D B D' F to cancel 3 moves - leaves 2C2E - 18
I did not spot a good insertion for this 2C2E - fail



Can anyone find a good insertion?


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## guusrs (Oct 5, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> My fail solution for the weekly comp...
> 
> Scramble: F D' F U F2 R' F' D B' L2 B2 L' F2 L D2 L F2 L B2 L'
> 
> ...



Very promising start!
I didn't find a good insertion too, probably there isn't any.
But if you continue differently after move 12 or 13 there are at least 2 other options to get an easy sub 30 (-;


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## Sebastien (Oct 6, 2013)

Cubenovice said:


> My fail solution for the weekly comp...
> 
> Scramble: F D' F U F2 R' F' D B' L2 B2 L' F2 L D2 L F2 L B2 L'
> 
> ...



Awesome 2x2x3!

Some continuations/finishes I found within 10-15 minutes:



Spoiler



L3C: U R2 U2 R2 U R F' U2 F U F' U F U
30 moves...

F2L: U' L' U R2 U' R' L
ZBLL: L2 U' L U L U' L U D' L U' L' U2 D

Tripod: U' L' U R U' L
L3C: U L' U2 R U R' U2 L

gives 28 moves.

your continuation: R2 U' R' U'
F2L: B U' B' U
ZBLL: D' B2 D' F' U R2 U' F D2 B'

27 moves.

L3C: R2 U' R U' R U' R' U2 * R U' R U

* = U2 R' D' R U2 R' D R gives 25 moves.



I did not really try insertion your 2E4C (while I surely would try that on my own attempt), but I think first looking for a 2C2E insertion gives you more opportunities.


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## TDM (Oct 6, 2013)

My first FMC attempt! From the weekly competition:


Spoiler



F D' F U F2 R' F' D B' L2 B2 L' F2 L D2 L F2 L B2 L'

x2 // Inspection (0/0)
L D2 R' F' B' D L' D // EOLine (8/8) _I know my EOLines suck. But this one had quite a lot of incorrectly oriented edges, so I'm very happy with only 8 moves._
U2 R U L2 // F2L-1 (4/12) _I got lucky with an easy start to the F2L here._
U R U' R' U R' U' L' U L // CP223 (10/22) _CP isn't usually good when the pair is connected, but this wasn't too bad. Only 3 extra moves._
R2 U R U2 R' U R U R // F2L (9/31) _Yay, more lucky F2L!_
U2 R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' R U' R' U' // 2GLL (17/48) _A very bad case for movecount, but as I actually knew the alg for it was better than most other LLs I could find where I'd have to do two algs._


Yea... 48 moves is quite a lot. You'd think there's a lot of time in FMC but there really isn't.


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## lionheart4417 (Oct 13, 2013)

Weekly competition #471:
27 Moves


Spoiler



Scrmble:L D U B L R2 F' B U' F' B' U L D2 F B2 D' L F' B2 L' B L' D L' F' D2 B U2 D' 

2x2x2: R' (@) U F' D F'
More Squares: B U' B U2 L' U2 L2
L3C: B2 U2 B2 U' B2 U' B' U2
@: L' U' R2 U L U' R2 U


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## mehdi-roshan (Oct 13, 2013)

from fmc.mustcube.net, round #471, no time limit


Scramble: L D U B L R2 F' B U' F' B' U L D2 F B2 D' L F' B2 L' B L' D L' F' D2 B U2 D'
invers: D U2 B' D2 F L D' L B' L B2 F L' D B2 F' D2 L' U' B F U B' F R2 L' B' U' D' L'

Inverse :

2x2 Block & F2l : LB' # U2 B2 FD'FU'R // 
F2L minus 1 slot : BDB'D'R'D'R // 
All but 3 corners : DBD'B'D BDB' // 

Insert at # =B' D B U2 B' D'B U2


final solution: B D' B' D' B D B' D' R' D R D B D' B' R' U F' D F' B D B U2 B' D' B2 L' //(28HTM)


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## porkynator (Oct 13, 2013)

mehdi-roshan said:


> from fmc.mustcube.net, round #471, no time limit
> 
> 
> Scramble: L D U B L R2 F' B U' F' B' U L D2 F B2 D' L F' B2 L' B L' D L' F' D2 B U2 D'
> ...



Nice beginning! After that (first 9 moves) I would have done something like this:
L' F D F' L (found using some premoves)
Leaving 3 corners and 3 edges.
Insertion finder says 25 moves is optimal for this skeleton.
but nice solution anyway.

P.S.: In case you didn't know, there is a problem with the website, so if you want to submit a solution you have to put a \ before each ' in the comment section. For example your comment should look like:
2x2 Block & F2l : LB\' # U2 B2 FD\'FU\'R //
F2L minus 1 slot : BDB\'D\'R\'D\'R //
All but 3 corners : DBD\'B\'D BDB\' //

Insert at # =B\' D B U2 B\' D\'B U2
I don't know if there is the same problem with some other special characters.


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## Bhargav777 (Oct 15, 2013)

Someone help me please  

WARNING - wEEKLY COMPETITION'S SCRAMBLE
Scramble - 1> L' D' R D' L2 F' U' D F R2 U2 F2 L2 U2 L2 U' L2 U' R2 D

My soln



Spoiler



F' D' F D L2 D L' U2 F D F' B' L' B - a good way to proceed from here please  This soln was from the inverse scramble.
Proceeded in a dumb way .
Inverse scr - D' R2 U L2 U L2 U2 L2 F2 U2 R2 F' D' U F L2 D R' D L
My soln for inverse scramble - B' L B F D' F' U2 L D' L2 D' F' D F (14)
R D' R' B2 D2 B D B' D (B2 B') B
D F D' B2 D2 F' D F D2 F' B' D (11) - zbll.

Final soln - D' B F D2 F' D' F D2 B2 D F' D' B' D' B D' B' D2 B2 R D R' F' D' F D L2 D L' U2 F D F' B' L' B


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## lionheart4417 (Oct 17, 2013)

Weekly Competition #472
Scramble: B F' U B' D2 R' L2 B U B F' R2 D F2 U D2 R' D U F L D2 F' L U2 R L2 U' D B' 

27 move in less than 1 hour


Spoiler



On Inverse:
2x2x2: F' B' U2 F L2 D
More Square: U B2 U
F2L Minus 1: B L' B2 L2 D L' D' L' U'
LL: L2 F' L' F L' U L2 U' L

Solution on Inverse: F' B' U2 L F L2 D U B2 U B L' B2 L2 D L' D' L' U' L2 F' L' F L' U L2 U' L



German Forum Competitions:

1: B2 L2 B2 U2 R' B2 R D2 R' B' F' R B U2 F' U L2 F' U

DNF In 1 hour


2: B2 D2 B2 U2 L2 U2 L' B2 L2 F D' R' B' U' R' D R' U2 L B'

21 Moves in 1 hour


Spoiler



On Inverse:
2x2x2: U2 B' L D' B 
Switch to scramble:
2x2x3: L2 F' (Found as premoves on inverse)

On Inverse with F L2 as premoves:
2x2x2: U2 B' [@] L D'
F2L Minus 1 Slot: U' B L2 
L3C: B' U2 B2 L' B' L U'
[@]: B' R2 B L B' R2 B L'

Solution on Inverse: U2 B2 R2 B L B' R2 B D' U' B L2 B' U2 B2 L' B' L U' F L2




3- B' R2 D' B' D' F' D' L U B2 D2 F B2 R2 L2 B L2 U2 B

25 Moves (15 min skeleton, 25 min Insertion)


Spoiler



2x2x3: D B2 L' R2 B2
EO: B U' B'
Switch to Inverse:
L3C: U' R' U' R' U2 R2 [@] U R U2 R U'
[@]: R' U2 R D R' U2 R D'

Solution on Inverse: U' R' U' R' U2 R U2 R D R' U2 R D' U R U2 R U' B U B R2 L B2 D'


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## Bhargav777 (Oct 18, 2013)

lionheart4417 said:


> Weekly Competition #472
> Scramble: B F' U B' D2 R' L2 B U B F' R2 D F2 U D2 R' D U F L D2 F' L U2 R L2 U' D B'
> 
> 27 move in less than 1 hour
> ...



Can you please explain your LL? Was that skip forced or lucky?


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## lionheart4417 (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes of course, for LL I wanted to orient the edges first, and I saw with L2, I can have two pairs (of course 3 pairs after L2 F' L' F). after EO, I find the OLL skip (Actually not skip, It was for Winter Variation). But the PLL was skipped, This skips usually happens if you have pairs at last layers. I usually dont solve like this, because it is hard to find sub-30 with OLL and PLL, but when you have pairs at last layer, it is useful to spend your time for finding OLL SKIP or EPLL most of the time.


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## mycube (Oct 18, 2013)

lionheart4417 said:


> Weekly Competition #472
> 2: B2 D2 B2 U2 L2 U2 L' B2 L2 F D' R' B' U' R' D R' U2 L B'
> 
> 21 Moves in 1 hour
> ...



lol found the same solution with an other insertion
http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=178815#pid178815


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## lionheart4417 (Oct 18, 2013)

mycube said:


> lol found the same solution with an other insertion
> http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=178815#pid178815



Oh wonderful! Congratulation Linus.
Yesterday I found this and after checking solutions in your forum, Sebastien's solution was the best (29 moves) and I thought I have found the best solution. But today after your post here, I checked again and I saw our solutions are the same. 26 Moves also was found by Moritz.
Nice to see the same solution. 
I think both of us find this solution because of our starts. It was a good start really! because of this after finding the start, I understood that I can solve it in less than 25 moves.

I usually check all of the posts and solutions in the forum from sometimes ago, and I love to participate, but I cant understand German, and because of this I try to write my solutions here.
Thank you for introducing the forum to me. I will try to continue participating.


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## mycube (Oct 18, 2013)

lionheart4417 said:


> Oh wonderful! Congratulation Linus.
> Yesterday I found this and after checking solutions in your forum, Sebastien's solution was the best (29 moves) and I thought I have found the best solution. But today after your post here, I checked again and I saw our solutions are the same. 26 Moves also was found by Moritz.
> Nice to see the same solution.
> I think both of us find this solution because of our starts. It was a good start really! because of this after finding the start, I understood that I can solve it in less than 25 moves.
> ...



Thanks 
you are welcome to post your solutions in the forum, too and participate even in english! The most of the members are able to understand it and it's of course accepted to explain your solutions not in german but in english! We are happy to see everyone who is competing in the fmc challenge


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## lionheart4417 (Oct 18, 2013)

mycube said:


> Thanks
> you are welcome to post your solutions in the forum, too and participate even in english! The most of the members are able to understand it and it's of course accepted to explain your solutions not in german but in english! We are happy to see everyone who is competing in the fmc challenge



Oh thank you very much! I will register and try to participate.


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## mehdi-roshan (Oct 20, 2013)

from fmc.mustcube.net, round #472, no time limit


Scramble: B F' U B' D2 R' L2 B U B F' R2 D F2 U D2 R' D U F L D2 F' L U2 R L2 U' D B' 



Invers


2x2x3 Block : B' L' F' D U F' U F' U B2 //

Switch to scramble :

All but 4 corners : D F2 R' @ D R D' //(6/6)

Correction: B2 U' F # U' F U' D' F L B //(10/16)

Insert at @ = L' D R D' L D R' D' (8-6 =2/18)
Insert at # = B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U (8-3 =5/23)

final solution: 

D F2 R' L' D R D' L B2 U' F B U' F2 U B' U' F' U' D' F L B (23 HTM)


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## Bhargav777 (Oct 20, 2013)

lionheart4417 said:


> Yes of course, for LL I wanted to orient the edges first, and I saw with L2, I can have two pairs (of course 3 pairs after L2 F' L' F). after EO, I find the OLL skip (Actually not skip, It was for Winter Variation). But the PLL was skipped, This skips usually happens if you have pairs at last layers. I usually dont solve like this, because it is hard to find sub-30 with OLL and PLL, but when you have pairs at last layer, it is useful to spend your time for finding OLL SKIP or EPLL most of the time.



Thanks.  

BTW if someone could give a good continuation to my post, it would be great. Thanks


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## lionheart4417 (Oct 21, 2013)

I found this Bhargav with your starting. (30 HTM)
Your start on scramble: F' D' F D L2 D L' U2 F D F' B' L' B
My premoves on inverse: B2 F D' F' U2 L D' L2 D' F' D F
L3E: B2 L2 B L' D L D' L' B' L'

Solution on inverse: B2 L2 B L' D L D' L' B' L' B2 F D' F' U2 L D' L2 D' F' D F [@]

[@]: F' E F U2 F' E' F U2 I didnt check for Optimal insertion, but this insertion that I use for my BLD solves has 4 canceling (E is D' U (y')) and because I am not good at insertion of edges, I accepted this as my insertion.



Edited: I checked it with IF and it didnt give my insertion, but with Optimal insertion that IF gave, total moves was 30 too.


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## Sebastien (Oct 21, 2013)

1st scramble of this week's German forum competition: R2 D2 F R2 F R2 D2 F' U2 F R2 D' U F' D2 B' U L' B' R2 B2 

It doesn't look great at all but turned out to be very nice eventually:

My solution:



Spoiler



EO: B' L
1x2x2+1x2x3: U * B' D F 
2x2x2: U2 B'
L3C: D' F R2 F2 U F U' D' F2

* = U' F' U B' U' F U B

Solution: B' L F' U B' U' F U D F U2 B' D' F R2 F2 U F U' D' F2

21 moves.


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## Bhargav777 (Oct 22, 2013)

lionheart4417 said:


> I found this Bhargav with your starting. (30 HTM)
> Your start on scramble: F' D' F D L2 D L' U2 F D F' B' L' B
> My premoves on inverse: B2 F D' F' U2 L D' L2 D' F' D F
> L3E: B2 L2 B L' D L D' L' B' L'
> ...



Thanks a lot


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## okayama (Oct 23, 2013)

Does anyone have a scramble of Dutch Open 2013?
Looks a hard scramble judging from the results, and so I'm curious.

If anyone has other hard scrambles (both official/unofficial), please share the scrambles here.
Some official scrambles that Guus posted as hard ones:

 Dutch Open 2009
 Dutch Nationals 2011
 Eindhoven Spring 2013
(I already tried the 1st one, but not 2nd/3rd yet)

EDIT: Thanks Guus, I'll try it later.


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## guusrs (Oct 23, 2013)

okayama said:


> Does anyone have a scramble of Dutch Open 2013?
> Looks a hard scramble judging from the results, and so I'm curious.
> 
> If anyone has other hard scrambles (both official/unofficial), please share the scrambles here.
> ...



FMC Dutch open 2013 scramble: R B D2 R B2 R L F U2 F2 L' D R2 U B2 D R2 U' B2 R2

Pretty nasty scramble for me and many others. At 40min a thought I found a sub 30 solve with premoves R B D2 and then after scramble F' U2 (3+2, 2x2x2 + pairs)
but in next 20 minutes I failed to reproduce it )-;


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## lionheart4417 (Oct 24, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> 1st scramble of this week's German forum competition: R2 D2 F R2 F R2 D2 F' U2 F R2 D' U F' D2 B' U L' B' R2 B2
> 
> It doesn't look great at all but turned out to be very nice eventually:
> 
> ...



Very nice!
I found B' L and B' L' as staring too, but I couldnt continue it for sub 30! So I left it and started with F U L R2 F2.
I solved this scramble in 29 moves.


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## conn9 (Oct 25, 2013)

I got this scramble while 3x3ing:
D F2 R U B2 R B U' F' U2 F2 D' F2 U2 L2 U2 B2 U F2 R2

I've got no experience with FMC, so I wondered how you guys fared with it. Maybe it's more useful for Roux than FMC.


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## okayama (Oct 31, 2013)

Discussion on how to decide a champion in FMC:

As discussed in Mean of N for FMC, (kind of) mean is desirable for determining a rank than best results.
I think no one disagree with it (mean is desirable, if possible).

I'd like to discuss on a slightly different situation: for example, if we have a time to hold 2 attempts for FMC,
how should we choose a winner under the current regulation?

In view of existing results of Worlds, Euro, US Nationals and so on, the format was "Best of 2".
But, there is another choice: "Best of 1 as a first round, and Best of 1 as a final" like Java FMC Cube Day 2010.
I think, this choice is better than a simple "Best of 2" for selecting a FMC champion.

One of big frustrations in the Best of 2 format is that "Just one lucky solve automatically leads to victory".
But if we divide 2 FMC attempts as first round and final, one lucky solve is not sufficient to win. Of cource,
winners have to pass the first round with at least safe/mediocre solve, but this is not an unreasonable thing.

In local competitions, Best of 2 may be preferable in order that competitors as many as possible can
do FMC attempts and set good records. But in big competitons to decide a champion (like Worlds, Euro, ...),
I think "Best of 1 as a first round, and Best of 1 as a final" works better than Best of 2.

I'm not sure the proper thread to submit this post, so just submit here to share this opinion with FMC guys.


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## Tim Major (Oct 31, 2013)

3 attempt, 30 minutes per solution, median taken?

One hour isn't really feasible. Or time limit for 3 solutions? Allowed to just attempt 2 and obviously have a DNS/DNF


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## guusrs (Oct 31, 2013)

Hi Tomoaki,
It's still a game.
If you want the best to be a winner, take 100 solves, elimiate best and worst 5 en get mean of 90.
But this doesn't fit into a competition format and the number of participants will be low!

But best of 1 solves can result in an unexpected winner. It will make the competition more fun and a more of competitiors will join!

For worlds ie we probably want a more official result, for example
1st round: best of 2
final: 2 solves
ranking: eliminate best and worst solve of all rounds, result = mean of 2 solves

But other formats are possible:
- 1 round of 1 hour with 3 scrambles
- when 1 solve entered result = #moves 
- when 2 solve entered result = (sum of 2 solves -5)/2
- when 3 solve entered result = (sum of 3 solves -15)/3
And you can make historical rankings compatible with this format


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 1, 2013)

Tomoaki,

I'm not sure why no one else has chimed in to agree with you. But I do agree with you - it seems like it would give a somewhat better result to do two rounds of Best of 1 than to do one round of Best of 2. Then you'd have to go for a "decent" result in the first round; there would be some strategy involved in calculating what you think is a "safe" solve, and a few of the best people might not be very good at doing, say, 35-move safety solves, since all they ever practice for is sub-30. Still, I suspect most of the "regularly sub-30" people could get good pretty quickly at always having a sub-35 safety solve, and you'd think that even for championships that would probably be enough to get you to the second round. I think there's real merit in your idea. Of course, even better would be Best of 1 first round, Best of 2 final, if you could afford the time.

I do also agree that having single Best of 2 rounds is better for giving people chances for records, though.


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## kinch2002 (Nov 1, 2013)

I still think that mean of x rounds are preferable to multiple best of 1 rounds.

And I agree that best of 2 doesn't really improve on best of 1 at major champs. It should either be a mean of 2/3, or a multiple round format as suggested


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## Mirek (Nov 3, 2013)

Hi FMC lovers,

Did anybody beside me notice that we missed an opportunity to set a what-would-be an "all time unbreakable unofficial record"? The FMC #474 scramble was very unusual position that had 15-move solution. The probability that a random scramble can be solved in 15 moves is about 0.2%. Guus was very close (13 moves away) to finding it after he correctly identified 2 pre-moves D2 B2. Not only that, the optimal solution for 474 scramble does not break corner-edge pairs nor does it break new pairs that are put together during the solve. This means that finding this optimal solution was within our reach. 
Here is the optimal solution, 
D2 L B D' B2 D L' F D2 F D B R2 D2 B2 (15 HTM)

Mirek


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## okayama (Nov 4, 2013)

Mirek said:


> Hi FMC lovers,
> 
> Did anybody beside me notice that we missed an opportunity to set a what-would-be an "all time unbreakable unofficial record"? The FMC #474 scramble was very unusual position that had 15-move solution. The probability that a random scramble can be solved in 15 moves is about 0.2%. Guus was very close (13 moves away) to finding it after he correctly identified 2 pre-moves D2 B2. Not only that, the optimal solution for 474 scramble does not break corner-edge pairs nor does it break new pairs that are put together during the solve. This means that finding this optimal solution was within our reach.
> Here is the optimal solution,
> ...


During 1-hour solve, I felt that this should be an easy scramble and other guys also would find a decent solution.
But I didn't expect that UWR (17-move) could be broken...

FMC474 Scramble: B' D R U2 D2 L' R' U D R F B' L F2 R' F2 R' L B R' B F2 D' U' F' R F R2 B2 U'

If you find the premoves R2 D2 B2, you may find the solution as


Spoiler



Premoves: R2 D2 B2

5 c/e pairs: (ready)
Preserve c/e pair: D2
1st square: L B D'
2nd square: B2 D L'
3rd square: F
All: D2 F D B
Premoves correction: R2 D2 B2


but at least I could not find the crucial 3-move premoves.
(I understood that D2 B2 makes 2 c/e pairs and R2 compensates pseudoness, though)

EDIT: interpretation on the inverse scramble:


Spoiler



c/e pair: B2
c/e pair: D2
something: R2
1st square: B'
2nd square: D' F' D2
3rd square: F'
4th square: L D'
All: B2 D B' L' D2


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## Cubenovice (Nov 4, 2013)

Hasselt open 2013

FMC scrambles

1st scramble: R2 F D2 L' F B' U R' U' F2 R' U L2 D' R2 F2 D L2 D2
2nd scramble: D2 L F' B' R B U2 D R2 U' L F' R2 B D2 R2 F2 R2 L2 D2 L2





Spoiler: My first 1st attempt



scramble: R2 F D2 L' F B' U R' U' F2 R' U L2 D' R2 F2 D L2 D2
inverse: D2 L2 D' F2 R2 D L2 U' R F2 U R U' B F' L D2 F' R2 

on inverse 
(premove U) F' B U2 R' F - 2x2x3 minus corner - 6
or 
(premove D') F' B U2 R' F U D - 2x2x3 with flipped edge - 8
I spend way too much time on these two without good results so basically my attempt was over...

Then in the last two minutes I just freestyled of the initial start
on inverse 
(premove U) F' B U2 F2 R' where the F2 is an insertion
F' R F' R'
F' D2 F2 L F' L2 D L' D - leaves 2C2E - 19
I did not write this down as I was freestyling but after the official attempt I managed to reconstruct in two tries.
Oh well: there was no time for an insertion anyway...






Spoiler: My 2nd attempt:



scramble: D2 L F' B' R B U2 D R2 U' L F' R2 B D2 R2 F2 R2 L2 D2 L2
inverse: L2 D2 L2 R2 F2 R2 D2 B' R2 F L' U R2 D' U2 B' R' B F L' D2

U - pseudo square (find premove F') - 2
(F') U R' F' L D' R' B' D' - 2x2x3 - 9
B' move inserted for better continuation
switch to inverse

(D B R D L' F R U') F - 2x2x3 - 9
D' R' D R2 - F2L - 13
U B R B' R' U' - leaves 4 corners

switch to normal / correct premoves for easier insertion-hunting:
U R' F' L D' . R' B' D' U R B R' B' U' R2 D' R D : F'
at . insert D R D' L2 D R' D' L2 to cancel 2 moves
at : insert D' F' D B' D' F D B to cancel 2 moves

final solution:
U R' F' L R D' L2 D R' D' L2 R' B' D' U R B R' B' U' R2 D' R F' D B' D' F D B F'

Initially I wrote down a 33 htm safety solve where I just added 2 commutators at the end.
In the very last seconds I finished writing down the 31 htm solution, including the insertions / cancellations on the fly, then crossed out the safety solve.

Lets say I was very, very relieved when Zoé informed me that my solution was correct 
But quite frustrated when IF showed me the optimal insertions resulted in 27 HTM...



Can someone please have a look for a better continuation of my 13 move F2L?


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## kinch2002 (Nov 4, 2013)

A common OLL alg leaves 3 corners at 23 moves. I guess it will probably beat 31 moves anyway. F U F' R' F R U' R' F' R
Edit: I did x' before that to leave LL on U


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## Sebastien (Nov 5, 2013)

Cool, your 2nd attempt's solution is very similar to mine actually 



Spoiler



Premove: F'
2x2x3: U R' D F' * L R' D' B' D2
switch to Inverse and L3C: F B' D' R' D B R D' R2 D R'

* = F L' F' R' F L F' R

Giving 24 moves.



I found this quite immidiately for your 2x2x3 start:

2x2x3: (F') U R' * F' L D' R' B' D'
F2L-1: R B2 U' B2 U
L3C: R' U R' U' B' R2 B

* = R U' L U R' U' L' U results in a 25 move solution.


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## Cubenovice (Nov 5, 2013)

Thank you for your feedback!



kinch2002 said:


> A common OLL alg leaves 3 corners at 23 moves. I guess it will probably beat 31 moves anyway. F U F' R' F R U' R' F' R



When I got this short F2L I was hoping for a lucky OLL but unfortunately I do not know many.
This experience will make me study O.. Nah, that's not going to happen...
IF gives 28 HTM as optimal insertion for your continuation.
I'm pretty sure I would have found that one.

My 4 corners were a 2-2 swap and I hate those, especially under time pressure.
Because of the time I had to settle for a 2-move cancellation early in the solution, check and then work backwards for the 2nd insertion. 




Sebastien said:


> I found this quite immidiately for your 2x2x3 start:
> 
> 2x2x3: (F') U R' * F' L D' R' B' D'
> F2L-1: R B2 U' B2 U
> ...



This hurts...
A lot...


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## guusrs (Nov 6, 2013)

Mirek said:


> Hi FMC lovers,
> 
> Did anybody beside me notice that we missed an opportunity to set a what-would-be an "all time unbreakable unofficial record"? The FMC #474 scramble was very unusual position that had 15-move solution. The probability that a random scramble can be solved in 15 moves is about 0.2%. Guus was very close (13 moves away) to finding it after he correctly identified 2 pre-moves D2 B2. Not only that, the optimal solution for 474 scramble does not break corner-edge pairs nor does it break new pairs that are put together during the solve. This means that finding this optimal solution was within our reach.
> Here is the optimal solution,
> ...



woow, no, I did miss that!
No way I came up with R2 as extra (inserted) pre-move. Other options made more sense. 
@Tomoaki, logical explanation of given solution doesn't mean they could easily be found.

Good to see you back on this forum Mirek!
Are you still cubing?
So much happening in FMC!

Gus


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## okayama (Nov 6, 2013)

guusrs said:


> woow, no, I did miss that!
> No way I came up with R2 as extra (inserted) pre-move. Other options made more sense.
> @Tomoaki, logical explanation of given solution doesn't mean they could easily be found.


I also understand that. I just tried to figure out the solution as a human-like solve, just wondering
about the way how we can find the solution. (didn't intend to say that you should find the solution easily).
I believe that interpretation of the given computer solution is meaningful to expand our FMC ability.


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## IQubic (Nov 13, 2013)

I would like to get into FMC, it seems to me to be by far the best thing in cubing so far. I have found Rhanza's FMC videos on cubing world, however those videos or posted once per week and I am impatient. I was wondering if i could get an explanation of Pre-moves and Insertions. Just so that i can get started finding the fewest moves needed to solve various cube scrambles. I understand that if stuck at the beginning of a solve, you can solve the cube and apply the inverse scramble, find a solution, then write down the inverse of the found solution as the official solution to the given scramble.

-IQubic


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## EMI (Nov 13, 2013)

IQubic said:


> I would like to get into FMC, it seems to me to be by far the best thing in cubing so far. I have found Rhanza's FMC videos on cubing world, however those videos or posted once per week and I am impatient. I was wondering if i could get an explanation of Pre-moves and Insertions. Just so that i can get started finding the fewest moves needed to solve various cube scrambles. I understand that if stuck at the beginning of a solve, you can solve the cube and apply the inverse scramble, find a solution, then write down the inverse of the found solution as the official solution to the given scramble.
> 
> -IQubic



True. You can also switch in the middle of a solve, just write your solution behind the scramble and perform the inverse of everything. Then you can find new moves, put their inverse in front of the scramble and perform everything again. 
The moves in front of the scramble are sometimes called premoves, especially if it is just one or two moves (sometimes trying out different pre moves can be helpful)
Insertions are usually commutators (corner 3-cycles in most cases) that are performed at some point of the rest of the solution. For example, you are left with an A-perm at the end of your solve, but instead of just doing the A-perm, it might be more efficient to perform a different 3-cycle at some earlier point of yur solution, which still swaps the same corners in the same way. If your lucky, you might find insertions that cancel a few moves.


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## guusrs (Nov 17, 2013)

FMC Twente Open 16 november 2013

scramble round 1: R' F2 L2 R2 D2 B2 L B' L' D' R' B2 L' B2 F' L F' U2
scramble round 2: L2 U D' R2 B D R D2 F2 R' F' U' L2 U2 D' L2 D B2 U' 

results:
1) Erik Akkersdijk DNF 24
2) Sébastien Auroux 27 27
2) Guus Razoux Schultz 29 27

Though competition, happy with my results (-;


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## okayama (Nov 17, 2013)

Missed my submission (with a nice result) in FMC476/speed, so here it is:

Scramble: D2 L' D2 U2 L2 U' F L' U F D' B2 U2 L B2 L B U2 L R' B2 D' R B2 U' R2 F' U' B2 L
Solution: B R F L B2 D' R2 B F2 R' F' U' R' U' R' U' R' U R2 B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2 (29 HTM)

1st square: B R
2nd square: F L B2 D' R2
2x2x3 block: B F
Orient edges: F R' F'
F2L minus 1 slot: U' R' U'
Finish F2L: R' U' R' U
All but 2c2e: R2
J-perm: B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2

EDIT: congrats to winners in Twente Open 2013.


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## porkynator (Nov 18, 2013)

fmc.mustcube.net round 476, no time limit
Scramble: D' U' F' R' U F' B' R' B F D2 F R D L' U' F' U2 L' U' L U' F R2 L' F D' U2 L' R' 

Premoves L2 U2 B2
B2 U L F //Lots of blocks (3x2x1 + 2x2x1 + 2 ce pairs), 7 moves in total

Can anyone find a good continuation?


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## guusrs (Nov 18, 2013)

Don't know why my post for Per's FMC round 476 wasn't accepted: here is my 1-hour solve:

scramble: D' U' F' R' U F' B' R' B F D2 F R D L' U' F' U2 L' U' L U' F R2 L' F D' U2 L' R'
solve: F' D R D B U B2 U2 B R' B L2 B' R B L2 U' L B L B' L' B' L' U' F' U2 (27)
with niss found premoves for inverse scramble:
(U @ B2 U2 B2 U' B' D' R' D' F) 
all but 3 corners: U2 F U L B L B L' B' L'
at @ insert L2 B' R' B L2 B' R B, one move cancels


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## Dimeg (Nov 19, 2013)

porkynator said:


> fmc.mustcube.net round 476, no time limit
> Scramble: D' U' F' R' U F' B' R' B F D2 F R D L' U' F' U2 L' U' L U' F R2 L' F D' U2 L' R'
> 
> Premoves L2 U2 B2
> ...



I tried to get started with FMC. My first try was 41 moves, so not quite there yet. I thought it would be good to reproduce some of the solves here to see what the random thoughtprocess is. Blockbuilding and commutators should help me to get better with general cubing. And after all the joy of learning something new is also worth a lot. 


I don't understand the premoves you make, and I hope you can explain them to me. 

L2 U2 B2 followed by B2 U L F, looks like L2 U L F. So I think I might have done something wrong.


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## TDM (Nov 19, 2013)

Dimeg said:


> I don't understand the premoves you make, and I hope you can explain them to me.
> 
> L2 U2 B2 followed by B2 U L F, looks like L2 U L F. So I think I might have done something wrong.


Premoves are moves done before the scramble.


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## Dimeg (Nov 19, 2013)

TDM said:


> Premoves are moves done before the scramble.



that makes sense  I can see the blocks appear now!


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## Bunyanderman (Nov 20, 2013)

U' F2 B2 R' B2 D' R B2 L2 D F2 D2 L B' U F2 B' D' F2 L' D U R2 U2 L2 
L B2 U 3/3
F' D F B' D B 6/9
D F' D' F 4/13
D L F2 L' 4/17
D B R2 B' 4/21

F D' F' D' R' D R D F D' 10/31
L D L' D' 4/35
D' B' D F' D2 B D' B' D2 B D' 10/46 (took 45 minutes to find a last layer plus f2l pair + LL solution)


(D2 F D F' D2 F D' F' 8/29
L D B' D' L D L' B L 9/38
B2 R2 B L B' R2 B L B 9/47 ( alternate ending ))
help would be appreciative, this is my first attempt and using CFOP/Free Fop to solve the cube


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## tx789 (Nov 20, 2013)

B2 F2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 L2 D' L2 D F' U2 L' D2 R2 D' B2 F L' D

This leaves me with a z-perm on F
F R' B //2x2x2
F2 U2 F' D2 F' L R' D2 R L' F' D2 F U2 F2//insertion 3/3
U2 F2 L2 F' B' U B//2x2x3 6/9
F U F U2 F2 R' F R//F2L#38/17
U' F U F' L F L'//F2L#4 7/24
Uw F2 U' F' U F' Uw' F//OLL8/31
View at alg.garron.us


by using http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/f73e3e5a992a3b9805f75a6f2c98d46a.cube it gives 39 move solutions. 

What can you guys get on it. The 3 move 2x2x2 block is nice. I kinda suck at FMC


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## Mirek (Nov 20, 2013)

guusrs said:


> woow, no, I did miss that!
> No way I came up with R2 as extra (inserted) pre-move. Other options made more sense.
> @Tomoaki, logical explanation of given solution doesn't mean they could easily be found.
> 
> ...




I've not been cubing for some time (measured in years). Recently, I attempted a few traditional FMC at http://fmc.mustcube.net/ and was not happy with over 28-move slow time solutions. 
Finally,..., I will post something for FMC #477. No spoiler yet.

Good to see you and other big names still around competing!

Mirek


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## Bunyanderman (Nov 21, 2013)

I need help please,
Pre moves U F2
Scramble B' U' B' D R' B' U' R2 D U2 F R' U' R2 L' F' L' B2 D2 U L2 U F L2 F 
2x2x3 block R U' R' D B D2 B' R2 B2 F' U L U' L B 15/15
this is where i need help.
i found this which solves first 2 layers
D F' D F2 D F2 6/21
D F' D' R' D' R 6/27
i found a 18 move last layer, but i am not satisfied.


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## Mirek (Nov 21, 2013)

okayama said:


> Missed my submission (with a nice result) in FMC476/speed, so here it is:
> 
> Scramble: D2 L' D2 U2 L2 U' F L' U F D' B2 U2 L B2 L B U2 L R' B2 D' R B2 U' R2 F' U' B2 L
> Solution: B R F L B2 D' R2 B F2 R' F' U' R' U' R' U' R' U R2 B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2 (29 HTM)
> ...



That is an excellent linear solve! I suck in it, but keep practicing. 
Anyway, I noticed you could have saved 2 more moves if you finished with another familiar J-perm: U' D' R2 D R D' R2 U R' D R'. You would see that the first move cancels out (no R2 needed before it) soon enough.

Mirek


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## okayama (Nov 21, 2013)

Mirek said:


> okayama said:
> 
> 
> > Missed my submission (with a nice result) in FMC476/speed, so here it is:
> ...


Thanks, and actually after the solve (during writing a
solution to submit) I noticed that.
I recognized it as a pair 3-cycle with a setup, i.e.,
D' (U' Lw2 U R U' Lw2 U R') D
and AUF. However, in order to save 2 moves by this,
I had to notice that before finishing F2L (because U U' is
not counted as 0 move in the linear solve regulation) and
I'm sure I did finish F2L before investigating the LL status...

Anyway I'm looking forward to seeing your solution in FMC477.
Don't forget to insert a backslash before ' in your comments!
EDIT: FYI, there's problem in submission, see my post.


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## Mirek (Nov 24, 2013)

okayama said:


> Thanks, and actually after the solve (during writing a
> solution to submit) I noticed that.
> I recognized it as a pair 3-cycle with a setup, i.e.,
> D' (U' Lw2 U R U' Lw2 U R') D
> ...




After your advise, I submitted my solution once more just to be sure it would show up. Guess what? It wouldn't show. Can you make it more explicit how the Quote text has to be formatted? Such problem was not on fmc.mustcube.net in the past.
This is my solution that I posted for FMC #477
D L' U B' R' U' R U' R' B' U' B R F L' U' L' D2 L U L' D2 U' L2 (24) 

On inverse scramble with pre-move D':
2x2x2: L2 [email protected] L2 F'
2x2x3: (R') B' U B (R) where inserted moves help with next corner-edge pair
all but 3 corners: U R' U R B U' L and undo premove D'
insert at @: D2 L U' L' D2 L U L'
I hoped for better move cancellations.

Mirek


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## Shah (Nov 25, 2013)

I started cubing a few months back and I use Roux now. I am interested in FMC. From where should I start?


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## EMI (Nov 25, 2013)

Shah said:


> I started cubing a few months back and I use Roux now. I am interested in FMC. From where should I start?



Look into other methods, especially Heise and Petrus. Also understand the concept of NISS and insertions.


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## okayama (Nov 25, 2013)

Mirek said:


> After your advise, I submitted my solution once more just to be sure it would show up. Guess what? It wouldn't show. Can you make it more explicit how the Quote text has to be formatted? Such problem was not on fmc.mustcube.net in the past.
> This is my solution that I posted for FMC #477
> D L' U B' R' U' R U' R' B' U' B R F L' U' L' D2 L U L' D2 U' L2 (24)
> 
> ...


Wow! Quite a nice solution. Did you get it within 1-hour?

Maybe during May 7th~May 11th, submission program was changed, and since that time
this problem has remained unresolved to this date.
I don't know why this change was made. Everyone complains, and no one succeeded
in contacting Per and reporting this problem.

Anyway, the current submission program needs backslash before prime in your
comments (not solution). You should have submitted your solution like this:

_Solution:_ D L' U B' R' U' R U' R' B' U' B R F L' U' L' D2 L U L' D2 U' L2
_Quote: (Optional)_
On inverse scramble with pre-move D\':
2x2x2: L2 [email protected] L2 F\'
2x2x3: (R\') B\' U B (R) where inserted moves help with next corner-edge pair
all but 3 corners: U R\' U R B U\' L and undo premove D\'
insert at @: D2 L U\' L\' D2 L U L\'
I hoped for better move cancellations.


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## Mirek (Nov 25, 2013)

okayama said:


> Wow! Quite a nice solution. Did you get it within 1-hour?
> 
> Maybe during May 7th~May 11th, submission program was changed, and since that time
> this problem has remained unresolved to this date.
> ...




No, this took me more than an hour. Probably close to 2 hours. I know I need to warm up more and work on my speed. 
It must be the two backslashes I missed to insert in the last row. :-(

Mirek


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## Mirek (Nov 25, 2013)

Hi,

I wanna share with you my late solution for FMC from weekly competition 2013-46 here at www.speedsolving.com. I consider it quite interesting.
Scramble: B2 L' B2 U2 R F2 R D2 B2 F2 L B' R2 U' F2 R F2 R2 D U
F L B L F' L' [L2] _F [F] __D2 B' F D F' B R D @ R2 D R2 + 4 pairs cycle @ = (D' B D R' D' B' D ) done
=> F L B L F' L' F D2 B' F D F' B R B D R' D' B' D R2 D R2 F L2 (25 HTM)
Found in 15 min. 
In brackets are suggested pre-moves that come up at that position. I had to use them to be able to see and backtrack the last 4 pairs.

Mirek


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## kinch2002 (Nov 25, 2013)

If you are having big problems with Per's site, perhaps it's time for someone to make a new site to run a weekly FM comp on? Some ideas:

- 2 or 3 scrambles per week
- Shorter scrambles
- Images in the correct orientation
- Running averages, personal bests, overall records


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## Sebastien (Nov 26, 2013)

Motivated by Linus's question on the Stats thread I eventually decided to properly calculate all FMC Mo3's, Ao5's, Ao12's.

These are the results: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?26121-Odd-WCA-stats-Stats-request-Thread&p=925943&viewfull=1#post925943


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## Attila (Nov 30, 2013)

Hungarian Open scramble:
L2 B2 D U R2 F2 D’ U2 R’ F2 D2 R’ U2 B’ U F’ L2 R’ U2 
My (worst) solution:


Spoiler



F2 B2 U’ D’ F’ B’ U’ L D B U2 F’ R B2 F2 L’ U2 B’ R’ D2 B’ F L2 U’ R’ L F B U’ D’ F2 U’ D R2 L2 U 36 moves.
About 50 minutes I found this 29 move skeleton:
F2 B2 U’ D’ F’ B’ U’ L D B U2 F’ R B2 F2 L’ U2 B’ R’ D2 B’ F @ L2 D B’ F’ D2 B’ F2 all but 6 centres.
Unfortunately, there is little time left, so I used a simply ending.
Then I found a nice insertion in my home:
insert at @: S M S’ M’
F2 B2 U’ D’ F’ B’ U’ L D B U2 F’ R B2 F2 L’ U2 B’ R’ D U L R’ F’ B’ R U’ D’ R2 U’ D2 6 moves cancel. 
This result is a bit disappointing, but better than DNF. I was too slow today.


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## porkynator (Dec 2, 2013)

I'd like to introduce my notation for NISS solves, because I find it easy and practical. If you like it, we can use it (or something similar) as standard notation 
The rule of thumb is: a '(' means "switch to inverse scramble using the inverse sequence of the moves found for normal scramble as premoves", a ')' means "switch to normal scramble (...)". An example will make it easy for everyone to understand:

Scramble: R2 F D2 F' R2 B' D2 B' F' L2 F U' F2 L' U2 B R' F D2 F D'
Solution: L2 D' L2 R B L F' L' F R' U2 F' U F U2 F U F' U' R' F' L F L' F' R2 F2 R2 (28 HTM)
Solution (written without this notation and with comments):


Spoiler



On normal scramble:
L2 D' L2 //2x2x1
On inverse scramble with premoves L2 D L2:
R2 F2 //Another 2x2x1
On normal scramble with premoves F2 R2:
L2 D' L2 //Two 2x2x1
R B R' //Pseudo 2x2x3
On inverse scramble with premoves R B' R' L2 D L2:
R2 F2 R2 F R //XX-cross + pair in slot
On normal scramble with premoves R' F' R2 F2 R2:
L2 D' L2 R B //XX-cross -1 move + pair ready (5/5)
L F' L' F R' //F2L -1 + pair ready (5/10)
U2 F' U F //F2L (4/14)
U2 F U F' U' R' F' L F L' R //LL (11/25)
R' F' R2 F2 R2 //Undo premoves, 2 moves cancel out (3/28)


Written with my notation and wi:


Spoiler



L2 D' L2 //2x2x1 (3/3)
(R2 F2) //Another 2x2x1 (2/5)
R B R' //Pseudo 2x2x3 (3/8)
(R2 F R) //XX-cross + pair in slot (3/11)
R L F' L' F R' //F2L -1 + pair ready, 1 move cancels out (4/15)
U2 F' U F //F2L (4/19)
U2 F U F' U' R' F' L F L' R //LL, 2 moves cancel out with premoves (9/28)


Much more concise.


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## mycube (Dec 2, 2013)

nice idea!
i just use a 'switch' for using NISS in fmc solves. So I am not writing down all the premoves because this looks really confusing. Everyone who is able to use NISS does not need all the premoves


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## Shah (Dec 3, 2013)

This is my first ever FMC try. I took an easy scramble and here is the 24 move skeleton I found.

Scramble: R U2 R' F2 D2 B2 R' D2 L' D2 R' D' F2 R U' F2 R U F R2

F' R2 D' //2x2x2 Block (3/3)
R U' R2 F2 R //Add Square (5/8)
U F' B' L' U2 L B L2 F //F2L-1 (9/17)
y2 F' U' F U R U' R' // (7/24)

Can anyone help me with finding a good insertion to this skeleton?

I also need links from where I can find a list of optimal 3-cycle corner commutators?


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 4, 2013)

I like it, porkynator. I intend to start using it on my solves; it's normally so cumbersome to write out explanations; this will make it much easier. Thank you for the idea!


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## tx789 (Dec 5, 2013)

yesterday I got this DNF. First one hour attempt I have done. 

pe-moves: B2 R'

F L' U' D F' U' D2 F' R' U2 L' B U2 F U2 D B2 F2 D' F' U' F' D2 U' L

U2 L D'//square 3/3
R2 U2 F//2x2x3 block 3/6
B' R D' R2 B2 R B2 R' B R//F2L#3 10/16
B L B2 L' B L B' L'//tripod 8/24
L B' L' B//edges 4/28
View at alg.garron.us

And I am left with two flipped edges. Two twisted corners and a A-perm. This seems like a good attempt since I suck at FMC. I am extremely happy with that 2x2x3 block.


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## Jaysammey777 (Dec 14, 2013)

I have a hunch that FMC can help you be color neutral.
Upon returning to cubing this year, I started just on white. Today I decided to try out other sides, and found that I was still sub-20. The only time that I ever think about the cube without basing colors off the white and yellow sides, is in FMC. Could these be related?


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## porkynator (Dec 15, 2013)

I am posting this solve here not because of the final movecount (30 HTM is an average result for me), but because I used a nice technique for the first time in it. I am using the NISS notation I explained a few posts above.

Scramble: R2 L2 D2 F2 D' R2 U' B2 D' F2 U2 F' D2 L' F U B F2 U2 F2 L
Solution U2 F B' L2 D2 F' U F2 L' B2 L F2 L' B' L' D L B' D L U L' D' L U2 R F2 R' L2 B (30 HTM)
U2 F B' L2 D2 //Two 2x2x1 (5/5)
(B' L2 R F2 R' F) //All but 4 edges and 4 corners (6/11)
Final skeleton (on normal scramble):
U2 F B' L2 D2 F' * R F2 R' L2 B

** U + L' B L' D L B' L # U' //4 edges* (9/20)
+ F2 L' B2 L F2 L' B2 L //1 corner (5/25)
# L' D L U L' D' L U' //3 corners (5/30)

The first insertion is the cool thing. I was inspired by this: I conjugated all the edges on 1 side (U L' B L') so that I could solve them with only one move (D), and then I put them back (L B' L U'). Luckily, corners have been nicely affected by this insertion, so I was left with a 2-2 swap


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## Mirek (Dec 15, 2013)

porkynator said:


> I am posting this solve here not because of the final movecount (30 HTM is an average result for me), but because I used a nice technique for the first time in it. I am using the NISS notation I explained a few posts above.
> 
> Scramble: R2 L2 D2 F2 D' R2 U' B2 D' F2 U2 F' D2 L' F U B F2 U2 F2 L
> Solution U2 F B' L2 D2 F' U F2 L' B2 L F2 L' B' L' D L B' D L U L' D' L U2 R F2 R' L2 B (30 HTM)
> ...




In that case, to make it even more interesting (and less work), you can solve all 4 edges and 4 corners with "one move U" and, well, some more (9+9) preparation moves like this:
* B D R2 B R' B2 D U2 F' _U_ F U2 D' B2 R B' R2 D' B' 
It is still 30 move total, though.

Mirek


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## okayama (Dec 21, 2013)

My solutions from Hokuriku Eve Open 2013.

1st scramble: D2 L' B L' F B2 U' F B R2 F' D' R2 U D2 L2 D B2
1st solution: D' F' D F' B2 U2 B F U' F2 L' F L U L2 F2 L' R U R' U' B L F2 L' B' U' L2 R2 (29 moves)


Spoiler



10 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: L2 R2

1st square: (ready)
2nd square: D' F' D
2x2x3 block: F' B'
EO+More square: B' U2 B
EO+More square: F U' F2 L' F
Finish F2L: L U L
LL: L F2 L' R U R' U' B L F2 L' B' U'
Correction: L2 R2

I couldn't find any better solution. One of solutions I found is

Pre-scramble: B' U' B U2 L2 R2

F2L minus 1 slot: D' F' D * B' F'
Orient edges: F' L' F
All but 3 edges: L U L' U' L U L' U'
U-perm: U2 L B' F U2 F' B L U2
Correction: B' U' B U2 L2 R2

which resulted in 29 moves. (IF says
Insert at *: D' M2 D F' D' M2 D F
is optimal, which gives 28 moves, though)


2nd scramble: R F2 L2 R D2 L2 F2 D' B L2 D B D' F L2 B2 U L
2nd solution: U B U2 L' U L U2 F R' F R F2 U2 B L B' D' B D B2 U' L' F2 D F' R2 B L D2 L' (30 moves)


Spoiler



NISS solve.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B2

1st square: L D2 L'
2nd square: B' R2
2x2x3 block: F D' F2 L U
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 D' B' D B

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: B' D' B D B2 U' L' F2 D F' R2 B L D2 L'

F2L: U B U' B
LL: B' U' L' U L B / B' U2 F R' F R F2 U2 B L
Correction: B' D' B D B2 U' L' F2 D F' R2 B L D2 L'



Both scrambles looked quite promising, should be at least Sub 28,
but my results were too poor for such nice scrambles.
I was in poor health because of the cold...


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## TheNextFeliks (Dec 22, 2013)

My solution for this week's scramble. Tied PB. Optimal insertion. 



Spoiler: WARNING! COMPETITION ONGOING!



Scramble:F B' R2 F' L2 F' R D2 U B' R2 U' D' L' B2 F D F' L D R2 L2 F2 D2 R' U' L' R2 U2 F'
R' U' R L'
B2 U B L' B2
U' R' U R 
U' F
U2 B' R' B
U (U2 R D R' U2 R D' R') R2 U' R'
D' F'

I did premoves D' F' so scramble D' F' then the scramble


Thought it would be better. But whatever.


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## Sebastien (Dec 29, 2013)

Today at Berlin Cube Day 2013 I finished my 35th and last official FMC attempt in 2013. In the beginning of 2013 I decided to submit a solve on all my attempts and managed to do so except for one anger DNF. So here is my Average of 2013:

32, 26, 26, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, 30, (DNF), 28, 25, (23), 30, 31, 29, 27, 26, 31, 26, 29, 26, 31, 23, 25, 29, 25, 30, 29, 24, 32, 27, 27, 29, 26 = 27,64


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## kinch2002 (Dec 30, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Today at Berlin Cube Day 2013 I finished my 35th and last official FMC attempt in 2013. In the beginning of 2013 I decided to submit a solve on all my attempts and managed to do so except for one anger DNF. So here is my Average of 2013:
> 
> 32, 26, 26, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, 30, (DNF), 28, 25, (23), 30, 31, 29, 27, 26, 31, 26, 29, 26, 31, 23, 25, 29, 25, 30, 29, 24, 32, 27, 27, 29, 26 = 27,64


Amazing!
Here's my year, which looks rather lame compared to yours
27, 28, (26), 31, 31, 29, (DNF), 26 = 28.67 avg8


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## Mikel (Dec 30, 2013)

Sebastien said:


> Today at Berlin Cube Day 2013 I finished my 35th and last official FMC attempt in 2013. In the beginning of 2013 I decided to submit a solve on all my attempts and managed to do so except for one anger DNF. So here is my Average of 2013:
> 
> 32, 26, 26, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, 30, (DNF), 28, 25, (23), 30, 31, 29, 27, 26, 31, 26, 29, 26, 31, 23, 25, 29, 25, 30, 29, 24, 32, 27, 27, 29, 26 = 27,64



I don't know what is crazier, the value of your average or that you did 35 official FMC attempts in a year.


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## okayama (Dec 30, 2013)

kinch2002 said:


> Sebastien said:
> 
> 
> > Today at Berlin Cube Day 2013 I finished my 35th and last official FMC attempt in 2013. In the beginning of 2013 I decided to submit a solve on all my attempts and managed to do so except for one anger DNF. So here is my Average of 2013:
> ...


Well done both, whereas my result is a bit disappointing.
29, 31, (DNF), 28, (25), 28, 29, 30, 29, 30 = 29.25 avg8

I hope I will do better next year.


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## brandbest1 (Jan 1, 2014)

Feedback on my (quick 20-minute) solution? This was actually PB. (I was going to do an attempt to practice insertions and stuff, turns out I didn't really use any, and my solution is kinda speedsolving-ish.)

Scramble: R F' R D' B' U L2 D B' R D2 F2 U2 D2 L2 F' U2 F R2 U2 F2



Spoiler



On the inverse:

B L F R2 L' D \\ 2x2x2 block

Scramble:
D' L R2 F' L' B' \\ premove

U2 B' U B' R B R' \\ 2x2x3 block 
L' B2 L2 U B' U' B' L' B' L \\ Finish F2L
R' B' U B R B' R' U' R \\ OLL
U2 B' L R' U2 L' R B' U2 B \\ PLL + AUF
D' L R2 F' L' B' \\ correction

Final solution: U2 B' U B' R B R' L' B2 L2 U B' U' B' L' B' L R' B' U B R B' R' U' R U2 B' L R' U2 L' R B' U2 B D' L R2 F' L' B' = 42 - 0 = 42 moves (no cancellations  )



I didn't mean to actually do the OLL + PLL combo but it went into a U-Perm which was pretty nice.


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## guusrs (Jan 2, 2014)

Hi Sebastien, Daniel & Tomoaki,

Congratz for all your FMC-2013 series and crazy sub-30 averages. 
I had a very short 2013-serie: 33 DNF 29 27 (no average)
I will try to not-DNF in 2014.

Guus

Guus


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## Sebastien (Jan 5, 2014)

This weekend at Duisburg Winter 2014, there was FMC held the first time ever as Mean of 3 format. We encountered 3 horrible scrambles, please have fun trying, it might be a nice challenge to get a sub30 Mean of 3! 

1. D B' D2 F L' U2 R' D L2 F D R2 F2 U F2 D' B2 D B2 U R2
2. B2 D R2 D2 F2 U B2 L2 U2 L' F' L2 B' R2 D R2 D2 L F' R2
3. D B U B R2 B' U2 D R' D R2 D2 L2 D2 F' U2 F L2 U2 B2

Podium (3 people usually being sub30):

1. Me (30.0)
2. Marcel Peters (30.33)
3. Jan Bentlage (32.66)


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## irontwig (Jan 5, 2014)

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/e.php?i=333fm&average=1

Not sure that this makes too much sense, since all of these results are from Best-of rounds.


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## Mirek (Jan 5, 2014)

My no-time limit solution for #483 at http://fmc.mustcube.net/ does not show up despite the system confirmed my submission. It was a typo (swapping two characters \L) that caused it. Anyway, this was my linear style 27-move answer for Scramble F' R' U L' U2 F' R' L' U' D R' U2 F2 B' U2 L B D' L R2 U2 L U R L2 B' U2 F2 L U 
2x2x3: B F2 R U F2 L2 D' R2 U2 R' F R (12)
f2l: U L' U2 L U2 L' U' L U (9/21)
OLL: U' L' F' L2 F L' U B L' B' (6/27) 4 moves cancel out 
PLL: skipped
I had a lot of 2x2x3 in 10 or 11 moves but none of them was easy to finish.

Mirek


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## TheNextFeliks (Jan 5, 2014)

Mine didn't submit either. The system said it worked and was submitted. Weird. It was 30 moves.


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## Mirek (Jan 6, 2014)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Mine didn't submit either. The system said it worked and was submitted. Weird. It was 30 moves.



Remember replacing all apostrophes with \' in the comment window (not in the Solution line) and avoid typos. Always double check (which I didn't).


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## Lucas Garron (Jan 7, 2014)

Forgot to post earlier: my solution from Berlin Cube Day 2013.

Scramble: F R' L D' L' D F R U2 B' U2 R2 B2 D' R2 B2 R2

R2 B2 R2 B R2 B2 // 2x2x2 at BRD
F' R U R' L F2' // FR pseudo-block
U L2 U L U' L' // Block/F2L at BL
U2 F // ELS
R U' R' U' R U2 R' U2 // CLS + PLL Skip
View at alg.cubing.net

(28 moves)


I tried quite a few clever things things, but I found this simple ending about 10 minutes from the end by pure luck.


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## Julian (Jan 7, 2014)

Lucas Garron said:


> Forgot to post earlier: my solution from Berlin Cube Day 2013.
> 
> Scramble: F R' L D' L' D F R U2 B' U2 R2 B2 D' R2 B2 R2
> 
> ...



Uhhh.... how did this happen

R2 B2 R2 // square
D B2 // 2 squares
R2 U2 B U2 // xxcross
R' F' R // F2L-1
R' D' L D L' R F' // done

17 moves wtf

EDIT: oh it's the inverse. wow lol
A definite case for non-optimal scrambles for FMC.


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## porkynator (Jan 7, 2014)

Inverse scramble makes perfect sense as a "human" solve. Oh god. What if someone gave it as a solution?
Edit: I'm serious. How is a delegate supposed to handle this case?


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## Julian (Jan 7, 2014)

porkynator said:


> Inverse scramble makes perfect sense as a "human" solve. Oh god. What if someone gave it as a solution?
> Edit: I'm serious. How is a delegate supposed to handle this case?


If I was at Berlin Cube Day I very well might have. Even easier to arrive at "my" solution when you put the last pair in normally and get an OLL which cancels to the same thing.

EDIT: E2e says DNF, and I don't think E2e1 is enough to counteract that. Which sucks, but I think there has to be a way to prevent this.

EDIT: If I sledgehammer the last pair in, then do Niklas to solve, that's 23 moves and not directly the inverse. What then? Still DNF I guess?

EDIT: To obfuscate it even more, I could insert the Niklas somewhere random close to the beginning.


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## guusrs (Jan 9, 2014)

Julian said:


> Uhhh.... how did this happen
> 
> R2 B2 R2 // square
> D B2 // 2 squares
> ...



Looks like a valid solve to me. Your explanation is very clear an logic. 
I think you would have found it as well with a different scramble (but same position of the cube). Isn't it?
And a close escape for WCA nobody found this during the competition.
At least you share the UWR now with me (-;


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## Erik (Jan 9, 2014)

Julian said:


> If I was at Berlin Cube Day I very well might have. Even easier to arrive at "my" solution when you put the last pair in normally and get an OLL which cancels to the same thing.
> 
> EDIT: E2e says DNF, and I don't think E2e1 is enough to counteract that. Which sucks, but I think there has to be a way to prevent this.
> 
> ...



It'd probably be unclear to the delegate as well if he faced the problem. The thing is, the last 3 moves made some nice block. You could have seen this while scrambling, but of course it's very possible if you didn't scramble it yourself as well. To me it would make sense to just allow it as long as you can explain it completely, though not sure if E2e1 indeed is enough to counteract E2e in this case.

Possible solution: unoptimal scrambles? Like always use a 22 move scramble for FMC? I remember when scrambles were not this good and we actually found a solution better than the scramble @ Istvan-WR in Czech.


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## irontwig (Jan 9, 2014)

This is rarely a problem, but I think the 30 move scrambles that Fredlund uses are long enough to avoid this, but not too long to be impractical. Also 30 random moves should be very close to random state.


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## porkynator (Jan 9, 2014)

No doubt that 17-move solution is legit, so I think it should be accepted too. But this leads to a problem: how can you tell if someone found a good solution that coincidentally matches the inverse scramble, or if he "studied" the inverse scramble for 1 hour trying to find a "human-solve" explanation for it? Unlikely, but possible.
Long scrambles (>25HTM) are annoying, but they may be a solution.


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## Sebastien (Jan 9, 2014)

Wow...I'm just happy that _the delegate_ didn't had to face this problem or even worse: find that solution himself.


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## okayama (Jan 9, 2014)

I remember this post, which contains my opinion for the scramble length.

I still think that the enough length of the scramble should be regulated, like
"For FMC, the length of the generator should be 20 or longer."

This does not intend random scramble sequence, but intends the following steps:

Pick a random state (the same as usual),
Generate a scramble to the state that is 20-move or longer.
I prefer this idea rather than 30-move random scramble,
which is employed in Per's FMC site.

I don't have a strong reason of the number 20, just intend that
only inverting the scramble does not lead to the new world record.
Erik said 22, and it also looks fine for me.

EDIT:


porkynator said:


> No doubt that 17-move solution is legit, so I think it should be accepted too. But this leads to a problem: how can you tell if someone found a good solution that coincidentally matches the inverse scramble, or if he "studied" the inverse scramble for 1 hour trying to find a "human-solve" explanation for it? Unlikely, but possible.


See this post for my opinion, the same as your concern.
In short, explanation of the solve does not guarantee that the competitor does not cheat.
In my opinion, making some explanation is not so difficult, even for the computer solution.
In fact I did several times, such as this and this, which were computer's solutions.

Therefore, if the solution has many similarities to the scramble, I recommend that the delegate judges it as DNF.


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## verdito (Jan 11, 2014)

please check this scramble, quite lucky, a friend got it in qqtimer

L2 U B2 D' B2 U R2 D' B2 D2 U' B' R2 U' F2 U' F2 L' U2 R2



Spoiler



Backup solve: U' D' L' D' L2 D2 U L' D L U' R' D L2 D' R D L2 D' L' D U2 R2 U F D' U (27)
U' // pre move (1/1)
(U' D F' U' R2 U2) // 2x2x3 (6/7)
D' L' D' L2 D2 L' D2 // 5 corners (7/14)
D2 L U L' D L U' R' D L2 D' R D L2 D' L' D // all (17/31)

Solve w/insertions: U' D' L' D' L2 D2 U L' D L U' L' R' D L' D' R D L U2 R2 U F U D' (25)
U' D' L' D' L2 D2 + L' D2 // 5 corners (8/8)
@ U2 R2 U F U D' // correction (6/14)

+ U L'DL U' L'D'L
@ D'R'D L' D'RD L


i use porkynator's NISS notation, and practice FMC since less than a month now (sorry for my bad english, i'm a bit tired now)


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## Julian (Jan 11, 2014)

guusrs said:


> Looks like a valid solve to me. Your explanation is very clear an logic.
> I think you would have found it as well with a different scramble (but same position of the cube). Isn't it?
> And a close escape for WCA nobody found this during the competition.
> At least you share the UWR now with me (-;


Well, I started messing around with the beginning R2 B2 R2 because of Lucas's start. I'm quite confident I would have found the solution with an equivalent scramble, although it may have taken me more time because of first investigating other starts.

I definitely wouldn't count this as UWR because it is someone else's scramble that I only started messing around with because it was in this thread (same logic as not counting PBs on scrambles in the easy scrambles thread).


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## ilikecubing (Jan 13, 2014)

Got a 32 move FMC at SCMU 2014! Posting my solution

Scramble:F' R' L2 B2 U F' B' L U R2 F' U F2 U B2 U2 D F2 L2

B R L' F L2 U L2 U L' // Xcross
R' U' R U' L' U L // 2nd pair
U' R U' R2 F' U F R // 3rd pair + 4th pair + EO
B U2 B' U' B U' B' U2 // OLL + AUF

Thanks to cancellations 
Missed the mean though :/


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## Renslay (Jan 13, 2014)

In the "Example solve game" thread, I found a really good solution with Roux -it would be even a very good FMC solution as well.

R L' F2 U R L' U' D B2 D' B2 F2 R2 L' F' U2 R' F' D U' L R D B2 U



Spoiler: Solution with Roux, 30 HTM / 27 STM



y x2
U f' R' f2 r' F (6) (FB)
r F R2 F' R (5) (SB)
U R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 *r2 x'* (10) (CMLL, move cancellation: R L M' = r2 x')
U' M U' M U2 M2 (6) (LSE)



I wonder how good is that scramble? Can someone do a really good FMC on it?


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## Sebastien (Jan 18, 2014)

FMC Scramble from Frankfurt Cube Days 2014: B2 L B L2 U2 D F D' R' D2 B U' B2 U' L2 B2 D2 B2

I found L3C in 17 after 5 minutes, a skeleton that was quite obvious in my opinion (linear on normal scramble). I was surprised after the attempt that only one other competitor (Laura Ohrndorf) managed to find the same skeleton. Unfortunately, there was only one spot giving cancelation (and only one move cancelation).

I had my 24 move solution written down after around 10 minutes, tried with 2 insertions but this got me to 24 only as well. :/


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## okayama (Jan 19, 2014)

My winning solutions from Molina Open 2014.

1st scramble: R2 U L2 B2 F2 D' F2 R2 F2 R U' B2 D L' U' F R B F2
1st solution: F R B U' R2 U2 B2 D' F L F' L' D L2 D L' D' F' L B' L' F L B D L2 D' R' U2 D L2 F2 (32 moves)


Spoiler



NISS solve.

(Inverse)
1st square: F2 L2 D'
2nd square: U2 R

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: R' U2 D L2 F2

3rd square: F R B
Expand block: U' R2
2x2x3 block: U2 B2
Orient edges: D' F L F'
F2L minus 1 slot: L' D
All but 3 corners: L2 D L' D' * L D L2 D'
Correction: R' U2 D L2 F2

Insert at *: F' L B' L' F L B L'

I believe this is a relatively easy scramble, but I couldn't find any better solution. 

Here are some of starts I found:

[1] R' F R (quite promising, I should have found something with this)

[2] (Inverse) R' L D2 U B'

[3] (Inverse) U D' L2 R' F'



2nd scramble: U L2 D U L2 R2 U' R U' F L2 B' R' D F2 R D B
2nd solution: D' B L F' U L' F' L R D R D2 R D' R' D2 R' D' B R' B' R D R2 D F' R2 B2 R' F R B2 R' F' B' (35 moves)


Spoiler



I found the following promising start within 10 min.

Pre-scramble: B'

2x2x2 block: D' B L F' U
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: L' F' L
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: R D R2

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any good finish in the remaining time.
At 55 min or so, I decided to write down a safe solution by continuing after the start.

All but 3 corners: R' D2 R D' R' D2 R' D' B R' B' R D R2 D F' R
Corner 3-cycle: R B2 R' F R B2 R' F'
Correction: B'

(IF says an optimal insertion gives 34 moves)



3rd scramble: D2 F2 D2 L' R2 F2 D L2 R2 D2 B' L2 D2 B D2 R2 D
3rd solution: D U2 L' U R' U' L U2 R D' U' B U R' U' R' B U F' L2 D' L F' D' (24 moves)


Spoiler



Here is 30 min backup solution (28 moves).

(Inverse)
c/e pair: D
c/e pair: F
c/e pair: L'
1st square: D
2nd square: L2 *
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: F U'
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 D' R D U
Finish F2L: U F' U' F
All but 3 corners: F D2 B' D' B D' F' R'

Insert at *: L' B L F' L' B' L F

In the remaining time, I found the following solution.

(Inverse)
c/e pair: D
c/e pair: F
c/e pair: L'
1st square: D
2nd square: L2
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: F U' (same as above)
F2L minus 1 slot: B' R U R U' B' U
All but 3 corners: D R' U' R * U D'

Insert at *: R' U' L' U R U' L U



Mean of 3: 32, 35, 24 = 30.33, which is not good for me , but I'm still happy to get official Sub 25 again finally.


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## JackJ (Jan 20, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> FMC Scramble from Frankfurt Cube Days 2014: B2 L B L2 U2 D F D' R' D2 B U' B2 U' L2 B2 D2 B2



Got quite lucky on this one. 30 moves in 47 minutes. I was thinking it may be a low 20 but couldn't force a PLL skip. I was also a little lazy with three rotations this solve, forgive me. 



Spoiler



PM: F2 B2
2x2: y2 F' L D B D
Expand: U2 L2 U' L U' F2
4th pair: z U2 L' U' L
OLL: y' R' U' R U' R' U2 R' (canceling into PLL)
PLL: U F B' R2 B F' U R2 (R2 turns into L2 because of cancellations in final solution)

Final solution: y2 F' L D B D U2 L2 U' L U' F2 z U2 L' U' L y' R' U' R U' R' U2 R' U F B' R2 B F' U L2


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## okayama (Jan 20, 2014)

During Molina Open 2014, with the help of Jesús, I could ask some questions to the Spanish record holder (and Vice European champion) Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez (I once raised his name here). Here are some topics I heard from him.


At first, he solved Rubik's cube without any help, i.e., he invented his own method. First layer corners - Top layer corners - Middle layer edges - Remaining edges.
At initial some competitions he participated in speedsolving events, but gradually lost interest in speedsolving. Currently he participates in only fewest moves.
He consults on FMC based on his own invented method. He showed his NR 24-move solution to me. 14-move (? not sure) skeleton for all corners and 6 edges, and remaining 6 edges are solved with insertion of 12-move algorithm, and 2 moves cancel.
He is proud of his method/approach, and he wants to keep the detail secret (I could not take a memo of his NR solution). This is one of reasons why he doesn't participate in internet FMC competitions. Other reasons include: (1) it is quite complicated and not easy to explain, and (2) he cannot speak/write English.
Basically, he uses only his method, and he is reluctant to use other methods/techniques. He doesn't use premoves, inverse scrambles, and so on. He likes direct solving.
His approach is similar to Attila's one in the sense of corners-first, but seems slightly different in the way to handle centers. Attila usually ignores centers in the step of solving corners, but Javier seems to care centers during corners.
He usually practices FMC three times a week. Rest of his time is devoted to refine his method/solution, memorize algorithms, consider how to do in some situation, and so on. He said he memorized lots of algorithms, and at the same time forgot lots of algorithms. (ha-ha )
Information about him is not so much available currently, mainly because he cannot speak any language other than Spanish. So just like to share these things that I got on this occasion.


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## irontwig (Jan 20, 2014)

Even though I find it very impressive to be able to find short solution (and extremely short in STM) with CF, I personally think that being restricted is the worst thing you can do in FMC. Did he say anything how he finds his corner solutions? When I was playing around in the 2x2x3 example game thread I could get close to optimal with solving 5 corners and then doing a insertion.


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## okayama (Jan 20, 2014)

irontwig said:


> Even though I find it very impressive to be able to find short solution (and extremely short in STM) with CF, I personally think that being restricted is the worst thing you can do in FMC. Did he say anything how he finds his corner solutions? When I was playing around in the 2x2x3 example game thread I could get close to optimal with solving 5 corners and then doing a insertion.


He didn't say anything about how to find the skeleton, but I think he doesn't use insertion for corners (use only for edges).

I agree with your opinion: being restricted is bad, but I also think that too many options don't guarantee a short solution, especially when the time is limited. I usually search edges-first skeletons only, whereas Javier searches only corners-first skeletons. I'm not sure whether there's a good well-balanced point.


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## guusrs (Jan 20, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> FMC Scramble from Frankfurt Cube Days 2014: B2 L B L2 U2 D F D' R' D2 B U' B2 U' L2 B2 D2 B2
> 
> I found L3C in 17 after 5 minutes, a skeleton that was quite obvious in my opinion (linear on normal scramble). I was surprised after the attempt that only one other competitor (Laura Ohrndorf) managed to find the same skeleton. Unfortunately, there was only one spot giving cancelation (and only one move cancelation).
> 
> I had my 24 move solution written down after around 10 minutes, tried with 2 insertions but this got me to 24 only as well. :/



Congratz, especially to Laura who broke the FMC female worldrecord, did she?


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## Sebastien (Jan 20, 2014)

Thanks! Yes, that's even the first female sub30 in WCA history. 

PS: Did no one try to find the skeleton yet?


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## Laura O (Jan 20, 2014)

guusrs said:


> Congratz, especially to Laura who broke the FMC female worldrecord, did she?



Thank you, Guus.
Quite amazing that so many people immediately notice the female WR, but I didn't.


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## irontwig (Jan 21, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> Thanks! Yes, that's even the first female sub30 in WCA history.
> 
> PS: Did no one try to find the skeleton yet?



Did a quick try, but couldn't find it. Found 3-4 9 move 2x2x3s, but couldn't see a short finish.


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## Sebastien (Jan 21, 2014)

Hint:



Spoiler



B2 D F2 L'


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## whauk (Jan 21, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> Hint:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well then... (because of "obvious" i thought i would have to start with the "most obvious move" which is U)



Spoiler



...B' L' F L R D R' L B L B L' D


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## okayama (Jan 22, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> FMC Scramble from Frankfurt Cube Days 2014: B2 L B L2 U2 D F D' R' D2 B U' B2 U' L2 B2 D2 B2
> 
> I found L3C in 17 after 5 minutes, a skeleton that was quite obvious in my opinion (linear on normal scramble). I was surprised after the attempt that only one other competitor (Laura Ohrndorf) managed to find the same skeleton. Unfortunately, there was only one spot giving cancelation (and only one move cancelation).
> 
> I had my 24 move solution written down after around 10 minutes, tried with 2 insertions but this got me to 24 only as well. :/


Here is my best solution in 1-hour, actually found in 15 min.
Solution: U D R2 L U B2 U2 F' L B L D B' L' B D F2 R' D' R D F2 D L D2 (25 moves)


Spoiler



NISS solve.

(Normal)
c/e pairs: U
1st square: D R2
2nd square: L U
2x2x3 block: B2 U2 F' L B
More square: L D B' L' B

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B' L B D' L' B' L' F U2 B2 U' L' R2 D' U'

F2L minus 1 slot: D2 L'
All: D' F2 D' R' D R F2 D'
Correction: B' L B D' L' B' L' F U2 B2 U' L' R2 D' U'

After 2x2x3 block, I found other finishes, for example

Orient edges: D' * F L2 F'
All but 3 corners: D' L' D L D L2 D2

Insert at *: D F D' B D F' D' B'

which results in 27 moves, not better than above.


Same as whauk, I thought U was promising as start.
Well done Sébastien and Laura. That start was not obvious.
Although with Sébastien's hint I found your skeleton linearly, I'm sure I couldn't find it in the competition.


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## Mirek (Jan 26, 2014)

okayama said:


> Here is my best solution in 1-hour, actually found in 15 min.
> Solution: U D R2 L U B2 U2 F' L B L D B' L' B D F2 R' D' R D F2 D L D2 (25 moves)
> 
> 
> ...




That's a good one, Tomoaki! I tried it too, found the same 9-move 2x2x3 block at my first glance (and soon later 4 other 9-movers) but I missed the finish. Actually, your last 9 moves are hard to see for me. But from now on, I'll remember the trick and namely what 2x2x1 block it forms.


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## Attila (Jan 26, 2014)

okayama said:


> During Molina Open 2014, with the help of Jesús, I could ask some questions to the Spanish record holder (and Vice European champion) Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez (I once raised his name here). Here are some topics I heard from him.
> 
> 
> At first, he solved Rubik's cube without any help, i.e., he invented his own method. First layer corners - Top layer corners - Middle layer edges - Remaining edges.
> ...


It seems, almost same his thoughts as me. 
Would be useful see his some solutions...


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## coldsun0630 (Jan 26, 2014)

Scramble: L' F L F2 R' F R2 D L' B2 U2 R U2 R U' L F D B U' R D2 L F' L'
Solution: U' F2 U' B2 U F2 U' B2 L2 F2 B2 L U' R U B U' F' U' L2 D F U F2 D2 U R B R' B U' (31)

F2L-1: U2 [1] L2 F2 B2 L U' R [2] F' U B U2 L2 D F U F2 D2
L4C: U R B R' B U'

[1]: U F2 U' B2 U F2 U' B2
[2]: U B U' F' U B' U' F

1hr solv

/

Used Snyder Method.
Is there any good L3C after the F2L-1?


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## kinch2002 (Jan 26, 2014)

coldsun0630 said:


> Scramble: L' F L F2 R' F R2 D L' B2 U2 R U2 R U' L F D B U' R D2 L F' L'
> Solution: U' F2 U' B2 U F2 U' B2 L2 F2 B2 L U' R U B U' F' U' L2 D F U F2 D2 U R B R' B U' (31)
> 
> F2L-1: U2 [1] L2 F2 B2 L U' R [2] F' U B U2 L2 D F U F2 D2
> ...


You could have done U L' R B R' B' L B2 U' after F2L-1 to leave 3 corners. You could think of it as inserting L' B R' B' L B R B' and cancelling 5 moves.


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## irontwig (Jan 26, 2014)

Insertions stink of IF; first insertion cancel one move, the second seven.


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## coldsun0630 (Jan 27, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> You could have done U L' R B R' B' L B2 U' after F2L-1 to leave 3 corners. You could think of it as inserting L' B R' B' L B R B' and cancelling 5 moves.


Oh, that's awesome.. Thanks!



irontwig said:


> Insertions stink of IF; first insertion cancel one move, the second seven.


I believe that it could be cancelled even more than seven, if there is enough luck.
I want to show you a solution which cancels 9 moves with insertion, of course without IF.


Spoiler



[Not Mine]


Scramble: U2 R2 U L' F' D' F U R2 D' F2 D L2 D2 R D2 F L2 F2 R'
Solution: U2 B' L2 D' R U2 D' L' D F2 L F2 R' F2 L' F R U' F' L U L' B L B' (25)

(Normal)
2x2x2: U2 B' L2 D' R
2x2x3: U2 D' L' D F2

(Inverse)
F2L-1: B L' B' L U' L'
F2L: F U F'
AB3C: L F R' F R F2 L'

Skeleton: U2 B' L2 D' R U2 D' L' D F2 L F2 R' F' R F' [1] L' F U' F' L U L' B L B'
- Insert at [1]: F R' F' L' F R F' L

Time: 14min


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## kinch2002 (Jan 27, 2014)

Sure, it's possible to cancel 7. But what he's wondering is how you found such a good cancellation on the second insertion. Why did you pick a first insertion that only cancels one move?


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## okayama (Jan 27, 2014)

Most Sub-X solves in FMC (like in Rubik's Cube)

*< 22*

Tomoaki Okayama 1
Moritz Karl 1
*< 24*

Sébastien Auroux 2
Tomoaki Okayama 1
Moritz Karl 1
Jimmy Coll 1
István Kocza 1
Adrian Lehmann 1
*< 26*

Sébastien Auroux 10
Tomoaki Okayama 3
Erik Akkersdijk 3
Moritz Karl 1
Jimmy Coll 1
István Kocza 1
Adrian Lehmann 1
Clément Gallet 1
Tim Reynolds 1
Yu Nakajima 1
Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez 1
Laura Ohrndorf 1
Baiqiang Dong 1
Bence Barát 1
Guus Razoux Schultz 1
Ron van Bruchem 1
Teemu Tiinanen 1
Shotaro Makisumi 1
Joon Cha 1
Steven Xu 1
Yuki Tanaka 1
*< 28*

Sébastien Auroux 33
Tomoaki Okayama 7
Erik Akkersdijk 6
Daniel Sheppard 6
Clément Gallet 3
Tim Reynolds 3
Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez 3
Guus Razoux Schultz 3
Teemu Tiinanen 3
Jan Bentlage 3
Steven Xu 2
Alexander Olleta del Molino 2
Arnaud van Galen 2
David Woner 2
Marcel Peters 2
Michael Young 2



Spoiler: others




Moritz Karl 1
Jimmy Coll 1
István Kocza 1
Adrian Lehmann 1
Yu Nakajima 1
Laura Ohrndorf 1
Baiqiang Dong 1
Bence Barát 1
Ron van Bruchem 1
Shotaro Makisumi 1
Joon Cha 1
Yuki Tanaka 1
Ali Salavati 1
Devin Corr-Robinett 1
Grzegorz Łuczyna 1
Hideki Niina 1
Linus Fresz 1
Mats Valk 1
Olivér Perge 1
Olivier Polspoel 1
Robert Yau 1
Sergey Ryabko 1
Abdelhak Kaddour 1
Claudio Müller 1
Dmitry Karyakin 1
Fang Qin 1
Guillain Potron 1
Henrik Buus Aagaard 1
Jakob Kogler 1
Marcin Stachura 1
Mikhail Rostovikov 1
Quentin Savard 1
Simon Westlund 1
Stefan Pochmann 1
Stephen Adhisaputra 1
Thom Barlow 1
Vincent Sheu 1
Wataru Hashimura 1




EDIT: On average
*< 30*

Sébastien Auroux 5
Tomoaki Okayama 1
Hideki Niina 1


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## coldsun0630 (Jan 28, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> Sure, it's possible to cancel 7. But what he's wondering is how you found such a good cancellation on the second insertion. Why did you pick a first insertion that only cancels one move?


Nope, It's the first insertion which cancels seven moves.
The number of insertion doesn't mean what's first.


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## irontwig (Jan 28, 2014)

coldsun0630 said:


> Nope, It's the first insertion which cancels seven moves.
> The number of insertion doesn't mean what's first.



The why did you number them in that way? Just fess up and say you used IF. More indications:

It's the first choice of IF
It uses the weird numbers in brackets, while most people prefer single characters such as period, colon, asterisk, etc


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## coldsun0630 (Jan 28, 2014)

irontwig said:


> The why did you number them in that way? Just fess up and say you used IF. More indications:
> 
> It's the first choice of IF
> It uses the weird numbers in brackets, while most people prefer single characters such as period, colon, asterisk, etc



I didn't use IF and I don't care what IF choose first.
Also, I prefer number like [1], [2] more than such as * and #. It's just my preference.

Hey, is there any reason that I should cheat with using IF and fool you guys with posting the solution?
I came here because I just wanted to ask if there's any way to approach on L3C...


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## Mirek (Jan 30, 2014)

coldsun0630 said:


> I didn't use IF and I don't care what IF choose first.
> Also, I prefer number like [1], [2] more than such as * and #. It's just my preference.
> 
> Hey, is there any reason that I should cheat with using IF and fool you guys with posting the solution?
> I came here because I just wanted to ask if there's any way to approach on L3C...




Calm down. At least I believe you. I started with insertions when solving pretty pattern on the cube about 30 years ago. Never thought that such technique would be so important to many, today. 
And, now, can somebody tell me what IF is? From reading this thread for a month or two I hava an idea that it may be a computer program searching for optimal insertions. Can it insert anything? Such as Sune or other pieces other than 3-cycles?

Mirek


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## Txarli (Jan 30, 2014)

Attila said:


> It seems, almost same his thoughts as me.
> Would be useful see his some solutions...



Here are some of them and a brief explanation of his method (in Spanish): http://rubikaz.com/foro/viewtopic.php?p=162403#p162403


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## Julian (Jan 30, 2014)

Mirek said:


> And, now, can somebody tell me what IF is? From reading this thread for a month or two I hava an idea that it may be a computer program searching for optimal insertions. Can it insert anything? Such as Sune or other pieces other than 3-cycles?
> 
> Mirek


Here.

Very intuitive, and very useful.


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## okayama (Jan 30, 2014)

Julian said:


> Mirek said:
> 
> 
> > And, now, can somebody tell me what IF is? From reading this thread for a month or two I hava an idea that it may be a computer program searching for optimal insertions. Can it insert anything? Such as Sune or other pieces other than 3-cycles?
> ...


Just adding some information:

The core part of IF was written by Yan Xuan and Shuang Chen, and the web interface was made by Baiqiang Dong.
Basically IF uses commutators (pure / with 1 setup move), but sometimes not, especially for edges and 2c2c/2e2e.
IF doesn't support Sune insertion and 2c2e insertion currently.
IF sometimes misses pair 3-cycle insertion, although sometimes finds it as a result of corner 3-cycle and edge 3-cycle.


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## Username (Feb 1, 2014)

Inspired by Daniel's video i decided to do an FMC attempt with a random scramble from qqtimer. This took about 45 minutes. Definitely PB (even thought the beginning was pretty easy)

R2 B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 U' L2 R F2 U' B D2 F R U' B' F2 


U' L * D (2x2x2)
R' U2 L2 U R (2x2x3)
B U L' B # L2 U' L' U (F2L-1 + more block)

*[B' U2 B, D2] (Corner 3cycle)
# R' U' R U R L' B' R' B L (Edge 3cycle)


U' L B' U2 B D2 B' U2 B D' R' U2 L2 U R B U L' B R' U' R U R L' B' R' B L' U' L' U

I'm pretty happy with this


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## irontwig (Feb 1, 2014)

Username said:


> Inspired by Daniel's video i decided to do an FMC attempt with a random scramble from qqtimer. This took about 45 minutes. Definitely PB (even thought the beginning was pretty easy)
> 
> R2 B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 U' L2 R F2 U' B D2 F R U' B' F2
> 
> ...



Not bad, but I don't understand why you went for that 2x2x3, here's my try (there's very probably a better finish):

U' L D L' B2 L' B2 L' B' L R2 F R U' B' U F' U' B R B U B' U' B U' (26)

U' L D
L' B2 L'
B2 L' B' L
R2 F R F' U'.R
B U B' U' B U'

.=U F U' B' U F' U' B


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## Username (Feb 1, 2014)

irontwig said:


> Not bad, but I don't understand why you went for that 2x2x3, here's my try (there's very probably a better finish):



Because I didn't find a good continuation for the 2x2x3 you did. I'm not that good at FMC, you see


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## kinch2002 (Feb 1, 2014)

Username said:


> R2 B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 U' L2 R F2 U' B D2 F R U' B' F2


23 moves
2x2x2: U' L D (3)
Some EO: F' L F (6)
2x2x3+EO: B' L2 U2 B' L' B' (12)
F2L: U2 L U L' (16)
Sune finish: R' U2 R U R' U R (23)
Lucky finish


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## irontwig (Feb 1, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> 23 moves
> 2x2x2: U' L D (3)
> Some EO: F' L F (6)
> 2x2x3+EO: B' L2 U2 B' L' B' (12)
> ...



U' B2 L D L2 B R B L' B' R2 L2 U' R U L' U2 B U2 (19)

U' B2 L D L2
B2 L' B':L
R' U' R.U' B U2

.=R' U L U' R U L' U'
:=B L B' R B L' B' R'

Lucky insertions 

I like how the FU edge is kept flipped so long.


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## porkynator (Feb 1, 2014)

Nice solve, but you deserve a  for the "[@1]" you left in the solution and then edited out.


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## irontwig (Feb 1, 2014)

Well, I did the first insertion myself, and since it's trivial to do optimal 3c insertions I let IF take care of that.


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## Attila (Feb 2, 2014)

Txarli said:


> Here are some of them and a brief explanation of his method (in Spanish): http://rubikaz.com/foro/viewtopic.php?p=162403#p162403




I tried to figure out, how he solved this:


En el Válgame Open de Lo Pagán 2012 la mezcla (2º intento):


L F2 L2 R' D2 U2 B2 R' U2 B2 D2 L B' U B' L2 U' R2 D2 F' R'

La solución entregada fue:

B2 U' (L' R) D2 U' R D L D (R2 L2) U' L U B (L' R) U2 F (R' L) D' F2 R' B D L'


First time,I cut the parts of the solution, which does not change the corners:


B2 U' (L' R) D2 U' R D L D (R2 L2) U' L U B (L' R) U2 F (R' L) D' F2 R' B D L'


B2 U' x y2 U R D R2 U z' x U' x' F2 R' B D L'

which gives the following solution for corners:

B2 U' F L B2-B' L2 F U B' D R B'

the first slice-move is obviously: 
B2 U' M F L B2-B' L2 F U B' D R B'
but the remaining three, he solved in what order and how to recognize, I'm not sure.


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## porkynator (Feb 6, 2014)

I want to share a nice 27 HTM (23 STM) solve; the result isn't crazy good (for me is better than average, but probably not for most of the top FMCers) but I find it particularly nice for its insertions 

Scramble: B2 F2 U' L2 R2 U' R2 F2 D R2 B2 L B' F' L U R D B2
Solution: B L D' L B R' B' R L' D R L' D U2 L' D2 L U R2 U B D' R2 L2 U D' B' (27 HTM, 23 STM)

B * D R //2x2x1 (3/3)
U L2 U //3x2x1 (3/6)
F U' ° F2 B //All but 3 corners and 5 edges (4/10)

* = L D' R D + L' D' # R' D //3c, 1 move cancels out (7/17)
+ = D' R' L B R' B' R L' D R //Edge commutator, solves 1 edge, 4 moves cancel out (6/23)
# = E2 //Solves all remaining edges but affects centers, 1 move cancels out (1/24)
° = E S2 E' S2 //Centers, 5 moves cancel out (3/27)

I've found the insertions in this order: *, #, +, °. At first I had solve # and ° with only 1 insertion, then I decided to separate them and improved my solution by 1 move 

IF ends in 23:
B [@1] D R U L2 U F U' F2 B
Insert at @1: R' U' D B D' B U D' R' D
After the 1st insertion: B R' [@2] U' D B D' B U D' R' D2 R U L2 U F U' F2 B
Insert at @2: L2 U' D F2 U D'
After the 2nd insertion: B R' L2 U' D F2 B D' B [@3] U D' R' D2 R U L2 U F U' F2 B
Insert at @3: B' D F D' B D F' D'
Fewest moves: 23. 11 moves cancelled
The final solution: B R' L2 U' D F' B D' B D F' D2 U R' D2 R U L2 U F U' F2 B


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## Attila (Feb 9, 2014)

porkynator said:


> I want to share a nice 27 HTM (23 STM) solve; the result isn't crazy good (for me is better than average, but probably not for most of the top FMCers) but I find it particularly nice for its insertions
> 
> Scramble: B2 F2 U' L2 R2 U' R2 F2 D R2 B2 L B' F' L U R D B2
> Solution: B L D' L B R' B' R L' D R L' D U2 L' D2 L U R2 U B D' R2 L2 U D' B' (27 HTM, 23 STM)
> ...


Congratulations, using insertions for corners, edges and centers in 1 solution, this is great


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## guusrs (Feb 9, 2014)

I've seen nice posts lately!
Sometimes I try the Atilla/Javier method but 'm still struggling.
For example in FMC 2014-04, 2 weeks ago.
Scramble: D F2 L2 F' R2 F D F' B' L' U2 R2 D' F2 L2 B2 U2 R2 U' F2 D'
6 move corner solve: F D' L F D2 F'
Can anyone extended this to a sub 30-solve? 
Because I couldn't


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## porkynator (Feb 9, 2014)

I try that method too sometimes 
The best I could do with that scramble was:
F D U2 R F R2 B' D //Corners and 2 edges (8)
R2 L2 //1e (2)
U2 L U D' B' U2 //2e (6)
L B R U D' F' R' B' //2e (8)
Now I would probably try to go on with insertions, but without any hope to get sub-30.


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## irontwig (Feb 10, 2014)

Previously I've only known the 12-move 2-twist [R' B D2 B' R, U2], but this week Tomoaki used a alg that can be written thusly: (R' D2 R x2 y')4


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## okayama (Feb 11, 2014)

irontwig said:


> Previously I've only known the 12-move 2-twist [R' B D2 B' R, U2], but this week Tomoaki used a alg that can be written thusly: (R' D2 R x2 y')4



I understand it as [R' D2 R, B' U2 B].

There are several possible algs for the same state:

[R' D2 R, B' U2 B]
[L U2 L', F D2 F']
[B R2 B', U L2 U']
[F' L2 F, D' R2 D]
[D F2 D', R B2 R']
[U' B2 U, L' F2 L]

But in reality you don't have to memorise them, because 1-move setup brings those 2 corners onto the same face.
For example, [R' D2 R, B' U2 B] = R' [D2, R B' U2 B R'] R = B' [B R' D2 R B', U2] B.

EDIT: Do you live in Japan now? On April 5th, a competition including FMC mean of 3 is planned at Kanazawa, let us go if you're still in Japan!


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## irontwig (Feb 11, 2014)

okayama said:


> EDIT: Do you live in Japan now? On April 5th, a competition including FMC mean of 3 is planned at Kanazawa, let us go if you're still in Japan!



Not really, but I'll stick around till May. By the way the German forum (http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&page=185) is a good place if one wants to practice getting into the mindset of doing a mean.


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## Attila (Feb 16, 2014)

guusrs said:


> Scramble: D F2 L2 F' R2 F D F' B' L' U2 R2 D' F2 L2 B2 U2 R2 U' F2 D'
> 6 move corner solve: F D' L F D2 F'
> Can anyone extended this to a sub 30-solve?


B L2 R D’ U2 L U2 R’ F all corners and 4 edges,
U2 D’ R D2 F B’ L2 D’ more 2 edges,
L’ R D L R’ B’ U2 B L R’ U’ F2 L’ LSE. 30 HTM/26 STM moves
I couldn’t find any better.


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## cubeaddicted (Feb 18, 2014)

How do you apply conjugates? I don't get it.


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## irontwig (Feb 18, 2014)

cubeaddicted said:


> How do you apply conjugates? I don't get it.



What conjugates? For any though, you just do some moves that get the pieces in the right place (the setup) for the comm/alg/single move/whatever, do what you wanted to do and then undo the setup.


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## cubeaddicted (Feb 19, 2014)

Okay, got it. Thanks!

And another thing, does any one really use LPELL?


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## kinch2002 (Feb 19, 2014)

cubeaddicted said:


> Okay, got it. Thanks!
> 
> And another thing, does any one really use LPELL?


I don't know of anyone that would use it every time. I think it's useful to know the algs, just so you can try them during a solve and you may get lucky with them


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## Brest (Feb 19, 2014)

U2 B2 L2 R2 D' L2 R2 B2 U2 R2 U R' U2 B U' F2 U2 R D2 R U2

started with:
D B' L' B // 3x2x1
R2 U' B U2 // 3x2x2
F D' F D // F2L-1
R F R' // F2L +EO
didn't find anything nice

changed start to:
F2 // premove

D B' L' B // 3x2x1
U' B2 D B' U2 // 3x2x2
D2 F' D2 // 2x2x1 (find premove F2)
R F R' // EO
F D' F' D' F D' // lol finish
F2 // premove

D B' L' B U' B2 D B' U2 D2 F' D2 R F R' F D' F' D' F D' F2 (22)


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## whauk (Feb 20, 2014)

i found a very promising start on a scramble. can somebody make use of all this blocks?

scramble: F' U F D' U' F2 U F L' B F' D' R2 F' D B F' R D U B' F' L' R' F' L2 R' B R2 U'
blocks: L U2 F D2 F'

looks to me like the cube could be finished easily from there but i didn't find a continuation.


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## okayama (Feb 22, 2014)

My solution from Kanto Open 2014.

Scramble: B U2 F' U2 L2 D2 F' D2 U2 F' R' U' B2 L' D R U2 L2 D2
Solution: R' F2 R' F' R' F' R F' R F U' R U R' F' R' D2 F' R' D L' U R' B U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 L2 (33 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

NISS solve.

(Inverse)
2x2x1 block: R' L2 B'
2x2x2 block: R U' L
2x2x3 block: D' R F D2

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: D2 F' R' D L' U R' B R L2

F2L minus 1 slot: R' F2 R'
Finish F2L: F' R' F' R
All but 3 corners: F' R F U' R U R' F' R'
Correction: D2 F' R' D L' U R' B * R L2

Insert at *: U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R

There are other promising starts, for example on normal

D L U' R F2 D2 B2 D' U2 R2 ...

but I couldn't find any good finish in time.

Yuhei Takagi showed me another promising starts:

XX-cross: R' U R2 U R' L2 D' L' R'



Congrats to winners within 30 moves!


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## uesyuu (Feb 22, 2014)

okayama said:


> My solution from Kanto Open 2014.
> 
> Scramble: B U2 F' U2 L2 D2 F' D2 U2 F' R' U' B2 L' D R U2 L2 D2
> Solution: R' F2 R' F' R' F' R F' R F U' R U R' F' R' D2 F' R' D L' U R' B U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 L2 (33 moves)
> ...



I found good finish using your "D L U' R..." start.

start: D L U' R F2 D2 B2 D' U2 R2
F2L-1: B' R'
Finish F2L(F face): U2 R' U2 R U2 R' U' R
LL: D2 F U' L2 U F' D' B2 D' B'
30moves


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## okayama (Feb 22, 2014)

uesyuu said:


> I found good finish using your "D L U' R..." start.
> 
> start: D L U' R F2 D2 B2 D' U2 R2
> F2L-1: B' R'
> ...


Wooow, I should have found that! Not so difficult...

And could you post your 30-move solution?


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## uesyuu (Feb 22, 2014)

okayama said:


> Wooow, I should have found that! Not so difficult...
> 
> And could you post your 30-move solution?



My solution:
D L R' D2 F U F' D L' D' F' L' B L F L' B' R' U2 R L D L' U L D' L2 U' L D'(30f)

Premove: D'
2x2x2: D L R' D2
square: F U F'
F2L-2: D L' D' * L'
F2L-1: R' U2 R @
All but 5 corners: U L' U' L

* = F' L' B L F L' B' L
@ = L D L' U L D' L' U'

This 5 cancel insertion is optimal !


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## sneze2r (Feb 22, 2014)

I did some FM training but i couldn't find any good finish after 2x2x3...

scramble: D U2 L' U B' F L2 B D2 F2 L' D2 L' D B2 L2 U2 B' L' R2 U2 R2 U' F B2 
inverse scramble: B2 F' U R2 U2 R2 L B U2 L2 B2 D' L D2 L F2 D2 B' L2 F' B U' L U2 D' 

on inverse scramble i've found not bat 2x2x3:
B' L U L' U' B' D' B' U2(2x2x3)
but then i get stucked... so i've applied premoves: D2 F' and found this:
F2 D' R' D' R D' R F R'(F2L)
and i got LL case which i can finish in 20 moves... but it is weak result for me... can anyone find something better?


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## Joey VOV (Feb 23, 2014)

I don't really do FMC but I found a 28 move solution to a scramble using CFOP, it was during a speedsolve and I got a slow 10.67, but here it is.
Scramble: R' B2 D2 R' U2 R D2 B2 R' U2 R2 D R B F D B2 U' F' D B2
Solution: U2 D F' R U' F' U B D B' D' R' D' R D2 R' D R F D F' D' L' F' R F R' L
I modified the solution so there are no rotations after the scramble, Obviously I did't actually solve it like that when I did.


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## Sebastien (Feb 23, 2014)

Scrambles and my solutions from Hamburg Open 2014:

1. Scramble: D2 F2 L2 B U2 B' R2 B' L2 F' D' L' B R F D R' F2 L D'

That one looked so nice given the pairs!

My solution (26 moves):



Spoiler



Pseudo-2x3x3: B D B U2 R
switch and F2L-1: R' B2 R' L2 F U'
3E4C: U' F' U

Skeleton: B D B U2 R U' F' U2 * F' L2 R B2 R

Block-commutator for L3C: * = U' R U' R' U F U F'
Unfortunately those L3C in 19 only give one move cancelation. I put R2 B L2 B' R2 B L2 B' at the end.



2. Scramble: U' R2 D R2 D B2 R' B U B R U F2 L B' U' F

This one looked very ugly at first, but turned out to be very nice. 

My solution (23 moves):



Spoiler



On inverse:
2x2x2: U' R2 F D' R2
Pseudo-F2L-1: L F L2 F L'
L3C-Finish: F D' F2 D F D' F2 * D L2

* = F2 D' B' D F2 D' B D

I also had 2 other L3C-Skeletons with 19 from L4C-Finish F' D' F' D F2 L2, but this one had the best cancelation.


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## kinch2002 (Feb 23, 2014)

Finally broke the 26 move NR (3 times for me, once for Rob Yau) with 25 moves today 
I'll post the solution tomorrow. It was a disgusting-looking scramble, with a pretty lucky direct finish


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## kinch2002 (Feb 24, 2014)

Here's my 25 moves solution from Nottingham Open 2014
It's a NISS solve, but really it's a ININSS solve, if you get what I mean 
The scramble looks really horrible initially. Thankfully there was a decent block on the inverse and a lucky finish for me 

Scramble: F' L2 F U2 F' R2 D2 F' U' L' B2 U L D' B R D2 L2 R'

Solution: F U' F' U B U B U' B2 U R B R' U' B' U L U2 L2 B D2 F D2 F2 L2
*25 moves*

Inverse scramble
2x2x2: L2 F2 D2 F' D2

Switch to normal with premoves D2 F D2 F2 L2
Pseudo 2x2x3: F U' F'

Switch to inverse with premoves F U F'
2x2x2: L2 F2 D2 F' D2
F2L-1: B' L2 U2 L'

Switch to normal with premoves L U2 L2 B D2 F D2 F2 L2
F2L-1: F U' F' U B U
Finish: B U' B2 U R B R' U' B' U


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## Ollie (Feb 24, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> Here's my 25 moves solution from Nottingham Open 2014
> It's a NISS solve, but really it's a ININSS solve, if you get what I mean
> The scramble looks really horrible initially. Thankfully there was a decent block on the inverse and a lucky finish for me
> 
> ...



How long did it take you to find this?


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## mycube (Feb 24, 2014)

found some funny stuff on your inverse start Daniel:
Premove: L2
L2 F2 D2 F' D' L2 D'
U2 L2 B' U2 L' U' L' B2 L
F2L in 16 Moves. To sad I am not able to use the cube explorer, can somebody tell me what would be the optimal last layer?


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## kinch2002 (Feb 24, 2014)

Ollie said:


> How long did it take you to find this?


Around 45 minutes I think. I spent the first 10 minutes finding nothing on the normal scramble. The next 10 minutes were productive. Then I was totally stuck after F2L-1 for around 25 minutes. It just looks horrible, but somehow there was a direct finish to find...



mycube said:


> found some funny stuff on your inverse start Daniel:
> Premove: L2
> L2 F2 D2 F' D' L2 D'
> U2 L2 B' U2 L' U' L' B2 L
> F2L in 16 Moves. To sad I am not able to use the cube explorer, can somebody tell me what would be the optimal last layer?



R' U2 R' D R' U R D' R U R2 U2 R' (13f*)


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## vcuber13 (Feb 25, 2014)

This was my first attempt at FMC.
Scramble: F' U2 B' L2 U2 B' L2 B R2 D2 F' D' R B' F2 D' F D' U' B2 R

On Inverse:

B R D // 2x2x2
F2 R' F R2 *F2* // 2x2x3
*F'* U' F // Orient Edges
U R2 U R' // Finish Skeleton
U B2 U' F' U B2 U' F // L3C
R B2 R' L' B' L B' R B' R' L' B2 L B // Twist Corners

Solution:
B' L' B2 L R B R' B L' B L R B2 R' F' U B2 U' F U B2 U' R U' R2 U' F' U F' R2 F' R F2 D' R' B' (36 HTM)

I couldn't find anywhere to cancel with the corner comm, and I didn't know what to do with the twisted corners. Other than those last two corners I think it was a pretty good first attempt.

What would you guys do about the twisted corners?


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## kinch2002 (Feb 25, 2014)

vcuber13 said:


> What would you guys do about the twisted corners?


2 or 3 twisted corners can be solved with 2 insertions. 2 twisted corners will generally cancel a ton of moves as you have so much choice. For your first insertion you need to cycle any sticker on piece 1 with any sticker on piece 2 with any sticker on the rest of the cube. That will leave you with a 3-cycle. 3 twisted corners is similar except you need to cycle those 3 corners in any orientation.

You left 4 corners though (3-cycle and 1 twisted). That should be solved in 2 insertions. The first insertion should involve the twisted corner, and solve any of the other 3 corners. That will leave you with a 3-cycle for the second insertion.


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## Brest (Feb 25, 2014)

vcuber13 said:


> This was my first attempt at FMC.
> Scramble: F' U2 B' L2 U2 B' L2 B R2 D2 F' D' R B' F2 D' F D' U' B2 R
> 
> On Inverse:
> ...



Your skeleton leaves 4 unsolved corners. The "L3C" commutator you used solves 2 corners and leaves 2 twisted corners.
A better way to approach this is to use a commutator to solve any 1 of the corners while cycling the twisted corner. This will leave 3 unsolved corners which a second commutator can solve.

For example, try these two commutators at the end of your solution:
[U B U', F']
[L F L', B2]
alg.cubing.net
B R D F2 R' F R2 F2 F' U' F U R2 U R' U B U' F' U B' U' F L F L' B2 L F' L' B2 (31)

It is best the try to insert these commutators into the skeleton to potentially cancel moves. There will be a lot of chances to cancel moves because the 1st commutator (solve 1 corner & cycle the twisted) has many options.


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## vcuber13 (Feb 25, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> 2 or 3 twisted corners can be solved with 2 insertions. 2 twisted corners will generally cancel a ton of moves as you have so much choice. For your first insertion you need to cycle any sticker on piece 1 with any sticker on piece 2 with any sticker on the rest of the cube. That will leave you with a 3-cycle. 3 twisted corners is similar except you need to cycle those 3 corners in any orientation.
> 
> You left 4 corners though (3-cycle and 1 twisted). That should be solved in 2 insertions. The first insertion should involve the twisted corner, and solve any of the other 3 corners. That will leave you with a 3-cycle for the second insertion.





Brest said:


> Your skeleton leaves 4 unsolved corners. The "L3C" commutator you used solves 2 corners and leaves 2 twisted corners.
> A better way to approach this is to use a commutator to solve any 1 of the corners while cycling the twisted corner. This will leave 3 unsolved corners which a second commutator can solve.
> 
> It is best the try to insert these commutators into the skeleton to potentially cancel moves. There will be a lot of chances to cancel moves because the 1st commutator (solve 1 corner & cycle the twisted) has many options.



I didn't even think to solve one corner and cycle the twisted one. Thanks guys.


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## TheDubDubJr (Feb 28, 2014)

wtp
fedora(s) are cool

FMC from (current) Weekly Comp #9



Spoiler



scramble - L2 F R2 D2 B2 R2 D2 B2 U2 L2 R' U' B' R' D' U' L' U' B L2

Premove(L') (1/1)
R' F' L D' B D2 //(6/7) crappy 2x2x2
L' U F' // (3/10) F2L-2
R U .. R' U' L U L' // (7/17) -3corners

.. = U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R // (8/25)

4 cancellations = 21

solution - R' F' L D' B D2 L' U F' R U' R' D2 R U2 R' D2 U' L U L2 (21)



lel PB
(PB before that was 29  )


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## irontwig (Feb 28, 2014)

That would be "crappy 2x2x2", although it wasn't that crappy, since the contiunation was very nice. I found a 30 mover on that scramble; 18 moves for L4C, but couldn't find nice insertions.


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## TheDubDubJr (Feb 28, 2014)

irontwig said:


> That would be "crappy 2x2x2", although it wasn't that crappy, since the contiunation was very nice. I found a 30 mover on that scramble; 18 moves for L4C, but couldn't find nice insertions.



Yea I always shoot for a 5move 2x2x2 unless the continuation is really good. :3
Hopefully I can get a bit lucky like this at my next comp.

Fedora


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## porkynator (Mar 1, 2014)

I've kept track of my last 100 FMC solves (1-hr attempts only); I started on 2013-08-13 and today I did my 100th solve. All of the solves are documented in the italian forum, starting from this message. Here are the results:


Spoiler



34, 30, 35, 26, 29, 33, 31, 31, 28, 30, 33, 28, 27, 30, 34, 29, 33, 33, 26, 25, 24, 32, 28, 30, 31, 30, 29, 25, 31, 28, 31, 28, 28, 28, 26, 32, 31, 29, 28, 32, 31, 29, 31, 30, 33, 27, 28, 29, 31, 31, 32, 30, DNF, 30, 30, 27, 29, 34, 23, 26, 26, 32, 30, 29, 31, 30, 31, 28, 30, 30, 34, 27, 26, 33, 31, 26, 30, 29, 31, 31, 31, 29, 32, 37, 32, 32, 32, 27, 30, 29, 29, 30, 28, 31, 32, 27, 32, 32, 31, 28


Best Mo3: 25
Best Avg5: 26.(3)
Best Avg12: 28.3
Avg100: 29.89

Now it's time to study more algs and other people's solves


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## okayama (Mar 2, 2014)

Quite interesting cases where 10-move commutator beats 8-move commutator. (Previously I posted here)

From FMC485:

Scramble: F2 R U R' B2 D U2 R D2 U2 R' L B' R L2 D2 F' R2 L2 D2 R U L2 R2 D2 U' F' D' R2 B' 
Skeleton: D B R U2 R B' U * F' U2 F' U' F' U' [@1] F2 R L' U' R' L

I inserted U F D F' U' F D' F' at *, but IF says the optimal insertion is

Insert at @1: U F U' L' U F' U' F L F' = F [F' U F U', L'] F'
(Shuto Ueno told me this interpretaion)

From FMC491:

Scramble: L U' F2 B2 U' L2 F D R' L U D2 F2 L2 U' D F D' R D' U F' R2 D2 U R B' R2 L2 U2
Skeleton: F2 B2 L U2 B F' U2 F' L2 B' U L F2 * L' F U2 F U' F' U F U2 F'

I inserted D R D' L' D R' D' L at *, but IF says the optimal insertion is

Insert at * (the same place): F D' F' D L' D' F D F' L = [F D' F' D, L']

TuRBo-like alg, such as [R U R' U', M']. Interesting.


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## guusrs (Mar 2, 2014)

Hi Tomoaki & others.

Someting went wrong with my Per's FMC491 solution
I think I forgot to backslash the first quote.
But within the hour the solution was quite nice:

scramble: L U' F2 B2 U' L2 F D R' L U D2 F2 L2 U' D F D' R D' U F' R2 D2 U R B' R2 L2 U2 
solve: R D2 L' B' L B D' L2 D L F' D F D' F L' F' U' R' F U B2 (22)

on inverse scramble with premove R': 
pseudo 2x2x3: B2 U'F'R U
swith to normal scramble with pre-moves [U'R'F U B2]
2x2x3: R (1+5)
pseudo F2L: D2 L'B'L B D' (7+5)
LL: L2 D L L2 D L F'D F D'F L'F'(D'D) (17+5)
undo premoves: U'R'F U B2 (22)


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## irontwig (Mar 2, 2014)

Very nice, Guus. I found L6C in 14 on that scramble that could be turned in L5C in 16, but then the best insertions only cancelled one move, so I DNF'd. Later I checked with IF and saw that sub-30 was possible with doing one of the quite many insertions that cancelled one move, which I suspected, but I didn't feel like mechanically trying a bunch of different insertions. Also, just 1% DNF is just insane, Porky.


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## porkynator (Mar 2, 2014)

Amazing start, especially the 2x2x3 guus!



irontwig said:


> Very nice, Guus. I found L6C in 14 on that scramble that could be turned in L5C in 16, but then the best insertions only cancelled one move, so I DNF'd. Later I checked with IF and saw that sub-30 was possible with doing one of the quite many insertions that cancelled one move, which I suspected, but I didn't feel like mechanically trying a bunch of different insertions. Also, just 1% DNF is just insane, Porky.



Thanks, but it is not so hard if you allow yourself to get really bad results (for me it means > 32 HTM) instead of a DNF.


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## vcuber13 (Mar 2, 2014)

My second fewest moves attempt. It was decent.

L2 F L2 F2 U2 F' L2 F' R2 B' F D' F2 U' R U B L F2 U B L

F' U // Premove
U' L D' L' U // 2x2x2
F2 D2 F2 // 2x2x3
B' D2 @1 B // Orient Edges
D' R2 D R D2 // F2L-1
R D R D' // Finish Edges

@1 = D2 R @2 U R' D2 R U' R'
@2 = (R U2 R' D2)2

U' L D' L' U F2 D2 F2 B' R2 U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 U R' D2 R U' R' B D' R2 D R D2 R D R D' F' U (35 HTM)


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## okayama (Mar 5, 2014)

The domain name of fmc.mustcube.net seems to have expired.
I found this week's scrambles from google's cache.

FMC round 492
speed: R' B2 U F L B' U F B' U' D2 R L' U R' L' D2 L B' F2 D L2 D' F' L2 R2 B' F' R' L2 
1hr/classic: U2 D2 R' B F2 U L' R2 F2 U' B' U2 L2 R D2 F2 L' U B' F2 D U R L' F2 B R' L D' B

Does anybody know the way to contact Per...?


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## kinch2002 (Mar 5, 2014)

New FM comp site pls! With scrambles that are 18-20 moves suboptimal and pictured in the right orientation.
And 3 scrambles not 1


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## Cubenovice (Mar 5, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> New FM comp site pls! With scrambles that are 18-20 moves suboptimal and pictured in the right orientation.
> And 3 scrambles not 1



speedcubers.de has a fewest moves competition with three scrambles per week

This weeks scrambles:
http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=183221#pid183221


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## irontwig (Mar 5, 2014)

okayama said:


> The domain name of fmc.mustcube.net seems to have expired.
> I found this week's scrambles from google's cache.
> 
> FMC round 492
> ...



Found two 28s in one hour, maybe I have them somewhere, quite possibly in the trash. Too bad about Fredlund's website though.

Edit:And yes the German forum is great. This week's first scramble is brutal though; I DNF'd like a noob, but ofc Sebastien found a sub-30.


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## mycube (Mar 6, 2014)

We would love to see more people joining our weekly competition!  It doesn't matter if you are not able to speak German, English is also ok!


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## irontwig (Mar 6, 2014)

mycube said:


> We would love to see more people joining our weekly competition!  It doesn't matter if you are not able to speak German, English is also ok!



Well, it also helps that comments are written in this kind of Anglo-Germanic hodge-podge:



Linus said:


> dritter mit Limit:
> Pre: B2
> R’
> L U B’ U’ B - Pseudo F2L-2 [6+1/7]
> ...


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## kinch2002 (Mar 6, 2014)

mycube said:


> We would love to see more people joining our weekly competition!  It doesn't matter if you are not able to speak German, English is also ok!


I guess I'll have a look sometime!


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## mycube (Mar 6, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> I guess I'll have a look sometime!



you are welcome to do so  just have a look at the newest scrambles I'll post every monday


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## okayama (Mar 8, 2014)

I got the following message from Per.


> Hi!
> 
> Yes, I am sorry that my FMC site for now is unavailable. I will move to
> another host, but which one is not decided as of yet.
> ...


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## TeddyKGB (Mar 10, 2014)

Sa967St said:


> Official 35 move solution from Holy Toledo 2014.
> 
> Scramble: D2 F2 R B2 U2 R' D2 L2 R' D' U B' D B2 R D L2 D2 L R
> 
> ...



Fixed


My 33 move solution from the same comp.

Scramble: D2 F2 R B2 U2 R' D2 L2 R' D' U B' D B2 R D L2 D2 L R 

Premove R2

U2 * L' D' L B2 - X-cross
L B' D B L' - double X-cross
D R2 D2 R - F2L -1
D B' D' B D R D R' D R D R' D' - Leave 3 corners
Insert at *: U' R2 U L' U' R2 U L Cancels 3 moves
Solution: U R2 U L' U' R2 U D' L B2 L B' D B L' D R2 D2 R D B' D' B D R D R' D R D R' D' R2 (33 moves)


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## PM 1729 (Mar 10, 2014)

My (tied) NR solution in IORC:
Scramble: U2 F L U2 B R' U R' D' R' F2 R2 B2 L F2 L U2 F2 U2 B2
Solution: U2 F' D F D F' D F L D' L' B' L2 B L2 U' R' U L2 U' R' U L2 U R B' L' F L

Explanation: 
Pseudo 2x2x3 on inv: L' F' L B R' U' (6)
So pre=U2(1)
wth pre U2 for inv and after 2x2x3:
F2l-1: L2 B' L2 B (4)

NISS => Switch to scramble with premoves B' L2 B L2 U R B' L' F L (10)
On scr: F2l-1: U2 (1) 
Leave 3 corners: F' D F D F' D F L D' L' (10)

So skeleton is: U2 F' D F D F' D F L D' L' B' L2 B L2 * U R B' L' F L (21)
Insert at *: U' R' U L2 U' R' U L2 (8), no cancellation

I thought I would get something better with that skeleton. Good solve anyway.

Any tips for better leave 3 c?


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## guusrs (Mar 16, 2014)

PM 1729 said:


> My (tied) NR solution in IORC:
> Scramble: U2 F L U2 B R' U R' D' R' F2 R2 B2 L F2 L U2 F2 U2 B2
> Solution: U2 F' D F D F' D F L D' L' B' L2 B L2 U' R' U L2 U' R' U L2 U R B' L' F L
> 
> ...


Hi Pranav, 
last 6 moves can be replaced with: L B D' B' L' D, also leaving 3 edges. Cancellations garanteed!


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## PM 1729 (Mar 16, 2014)

guusrs said:


> Hi Pranav,
> last 6 moves can be replaced with: L B D' B' L' D, also leaving 3 edges. Cancellations garanteed!



Hmm. Thanks for that!
The other NR holder (Nikhil Mande) also suggested a similar continuation and got an easy 26 with it. 

Guess I'll have to work on edge insertions


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## TeddyKGB (Mar 16, 2014)

R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' F' U F U2 R U R'

What is the best way to solve these edges without ruining the 2x2x1 block?


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## irontwig (Mar 17, 2014)

TeddyKGB said:


> R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' F' U F U2 R U R'
> 
> What is the best way to solve these edges without ruining the 2x2x1 block?



To solve edges:
U R F' U' L' U L F U R' U'

To Leave three corners: 
U R F' L F L' U' L' U L U R' U'

To solve everything:
R U' R' U2 F' U' F R2 D' R' D R' L U' L' B2

Better solutions might exist, too lazy to check.

Edit: R F2 D R D' R' F' R F' R'


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## Sebastien (Mar 19, 2014)

I just noticed that I currently have a pretty good official Average of 5:

(27), 24, 26, (23), 24 = 24,66

I REALLY want a better official single.


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## okayama (Mar 21, 2014)

My winning solution from Kansai Open 2014.

Scramble: L2 B2 U' F D2 F L' F2 B D' R2 B' D2 B L2 B' D2 L2
Solution: B' U2 L2 U' B L B' L D2 L' D L' D' L2 B' R2 B L' B' R2 L' B L' D2 L2 B' L2 B' (28 moves)


Spoiler



Here is my start found in a few minutes:

2x2x2 block: B' U2 L2 U'
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: B L B'

By switching to inverse, I found the following backup solution in 20 min. (30 moves)

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B L' B' U L2 U2 B

2x2x3 block + EO: B L2 B2 D2 B'
F2L minus 1 slot: D' L
All but 3 corners: D' L D2 L' D L D L' D'
Correction: B L' B' U L2 U2 B
Corner 3-cycle: B L B' R2 B L' B' R2

In the next 20 min., I found the following solution.

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L2 B' L2 B'

2x2x2 block: B' U2 L2 U'
2x2x3 block: B L B'
F2L minus 1 slot: L D2 L' D L2
All but 3 corners: L D' L * B' L' B L' D2
Correction: L2 B' L2 B'

Insert at *: L B' R2 B L' B' R2 B

I couldn't find any better solution in the remaining time.


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## Ollie (Mar 21, 2014)

A scramble with a free 2x2x2 block, might be interesting to see what people do with it  L' D2 L2 R D F' L2 B' F D F R B U L' R2 F2 D2 B2 U' R D2 L2 U2 B2


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## irontwig (Mar 21, 2014)

okayama said:


> My winning solution from Kansai Open 2014.
> 
> Scramble: L2 B2 U' F D2 F L' F2 B D' R2 B' D2 B L2 B' D2 L2
> Solution: B' U2 L2 U' B L B' L D2 L' D L' D' L2 B' R2 B L' B' R2 L' B L' D2 L2 B' L2 B' (28 moves)
> ...



And my second place solution:
B' U2 L2 U' D L' R D R' L B2 D2 B D B D B' D2 L D2 L F' L2 U2 R2 B' R2 U2 L2 (29)



Spoiler



I first noticed that there are only four bad edges in "the R orientation" and even though B F2 R does the EO and sets up a easy first square, I couldn't continue it nicely, so did some good old fashioned block building instead (premoves are L D2 L):

B' U2 L2 U' [2x2x3]
D L' R D R' L [EO]
B2 D2 B [F2L-1/Pseudo F2L]

Here it's easy to leave three corners with D' B2 D2 B' D, but unfortunately they are twisted (IF gives 29 and 30 for insertion of a 3 corner twist (which I don't know) and two corner cycles). Here I switched to the inverse, although it's not needed so for simplicity sake I'll just write it as it would be performed on the normal scramble:

D B D B' D2*[Leaving three edges]
L D2 L [Psuedoness]
F' L2 U2 R2 B' R2 U2 L2 [Edge cycle]

I need to work on my 8-movers though, since *=B L2 U2 R2 F R2 U2 L2 yields 28 moves.


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## JackJ (Mar 22, 2014)

D' B D F L2 D' R' B R B' D2 F2 U2 L2 F2 L' D2 B2 R

D F2 R F2 B' L F'
D' B' D2 B2 D2 B' D' B2

Anybody have a nice finish?


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## TeddyKGB (Mar 22, 2014)

JackJ said:


> D' B D F L2 D' R' B R B' D2 F2 U2 L2 F2 L' D2 B2 R
> 
> D F2 R F2 B' L F'
> D' B' D2 B2 D2 B' D' B2
> ...



Couldn't find any good finish for your start but I found a great start to that scramble

Premove F2 

2x2x3 - D F


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## okayama (Mar 27, 2014)

TeddyKGB said:


> JackJ said:
> 
> 
> > D' B D F L2 D' R' B R B' D2 F2 U2 L2 F2 L' D2 B2 R
> ...



Pre-scramble: U F2

2x2x3 block: D F
Finish F2L: U2 L' B' L2 U2 L' B' U'
All but 3 edges: B' U B U' B U [@1] B2 U'
Correction: U F2

Insert at @1: E' F R F' E F R' F' (or E' F' R F E F' R' F) gives 25-move (according to IF).

Not so good for 3-move 2x2x3 block though...


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## dbax0999 (Mar 29, 2014)

Hey guys! 

I built a site for a new weekly FMC competition. You can check it out here. I know there's the weekly competition on the German forums but maybe this could be something a bit more accessible that we could use while waiting for fmc.mustcube.net to come back up. 

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/

It's still in beta, so any suggestions are welcome! Feel free to leave a comment, pm me here, or submit an issue on Github.

Cheers,

David


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## irontwig (Mar 29, 2014)

A picture of the scramble would be nice, and a place for comments is absolutely needed.


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## dbax0999 (Mar 29, 2014)

irontwig said:


> A picture of the scramble would be nice, and a place for comments is absolutely needed.


 Submissions now have a place for comments. As far as a picture of the scramble, I'm not sure the best method for automatically generating a photo of a cube given a scramble. For now there's a link to alg.cubing.net on the submit page that has a link to the scramble.


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## uesyuu (Mar 30, 2014)

Is there any Web sites to explain L4C or L5C Insertion?
It's hard for me to find almost optimal insertion efficiently.


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## irontwig (Mar 30, 2014)

uesyuu said:


> Is there any Web sites to explain L4C or L5C Insertion?
> It's hard for me to find almost optimal insertion efficiently.



Just do (one of) the insertions that cancels the most moves and leaves three corners first and then just do what you would do for L3C. Optimal/almost optimal most of the time.


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## TheDubDubJr (Mar 31, 2014)

*Walker Welch NAR Mean 33.67*

Walker Welch NAR Mean 33.67
[34 , 36 , 31]
I was happy with the single and I am glad I got a mean that represented what I averaged.



Spoiler: Attempt #1



Scramble - R2 U B2 L2 D R2 D F' L' R' B R2 U2 B R D' F2 L
(inverse - L' F2 D R' B' U2 R2 B' R L F D' R2 D' L2 B2 U' R2)

On normal:
U L' D // 2x2x2 

Move to inverse:
(D' L U')premove (3)
F R2 F' L // 2x2x3 (7)
U F2 U' F' // F2L-3 (11)
R U R' F' U F U' R // -5 corners (19)

Skeleton on normal:
U L' D R' [@1] U F' U' F [@2] R U' R' F U F2 U' L' F R2 F'

@1 - U' F D F' U F D' F'
@2 - D' L2 D R2 D' L2 D R2
1 cancellation for 34 -_-

*Final Solution - U L' D R' U' F D F' U F D' F' U F' U' F D' L2 D R2 D' L2 D R' U' R' F U F2 U' L' F R2 F' (34)*

I had about 5min to find and write down these 2 insertions so I took whatever I could find.
I looked on IF and optimal insertions were a 27
I am guessing with more time I would have gotten about a 31





Spoiler: Attempt #2



Scramble - U' F2 D' L U R U R2 F L2 B U' B2 U2 D F2 R2 U2 F2 B2
(inverse - B2 F2 U2 R2 F2 D' U2 B2 U B' L2 F' R2 U' R' U' L' D F2 U)

On normal:
F R B' L F U' B L' B D2 // 2x2x3

Move to inverse:
(D2 B' L B' U F' L' B R' F')premove (10)
U L U' L' F' L2 F' L' F // F2L-3 (19)
D' L2 D L F L' F' L D' L2 D L2 // -3 corners (31)

Skeleton on normal:
F [@1] R B' L F U' B L' B D2 L2 D' L2 D L' F L F' L' D' L2 D F' L F L2 F L U L' U'

@1 - F L' F' R F L F' R'
3 cancellations for 36

*Final Solution - F2 L' F' R F L F' B' L F U' B L' B D2 L2 D' L2 D L' F L F' L' D' L2 D F' L F L2 F L U L' U' (36)*
the pizza helped with this attempt
I couldn't find a good ending with this start. I found this skeleton with about 5min left.
I again took whatever insertion I could get but was happy with the 3 cancellations.
IF says this is optimal for this skeleton
Steve Cho got a nice show of me speed-finishing my solution on the final paper with about half a second left.





Spoiler: Attempt #3



Scramble - F' R D' F L U' D L B' R' U2 F2 R2 F2 U' R2 L2 U' R2 U'
(inverse - U R2 U L2 R2 U F2 R2 F2 U2 R B L' D' U L' F' D R' F)

All on normal:
(U2)premove (1)
U2 F' D' B R2 D' // 2x2x2 (7)
F' U L2 F L // 2x2x3 + extra 2x2x1 (12)
R' F R U F L F L' // F2L (20)
R F R' F R F L' F R' F' L // COLL + EPLL skip (31)

*Final Solution - U2 F' D' B R2 D' F' U L2 F L R' F R U F L F L' R F R' F R F L' F R' F' L U2 (31)*

I found a 36 backup in the first 10min and found this 31 about 20min after.
I had a lot of options with that extra 2x2x1 after the 2x2x3 but I couldn't find anything better than a 31
#31club



#YearoftheWalker2014


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## okayama (Apr 5, 2014)

Scrambles and my (bad) solves from Cherry Blossom Viewing 2014.

1st scramble: D2 U2 F2 D2 F2 L2 U2 B D2 F2 L D' B' U2 L R D2 U F2 R2
1st solution: U2 L B L' B2 D' R U F R F' R U' R' B' U F' U' B U F R U' R2 U' B' L U F D' (30 moves)


Spoiler



Using NISS, firstly I found the following short F2L (13 moves)

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: D B2 L B' L' U2

F2L: D F' U' L' B2 U B'

but I couldn't find any good finish. Here is 25 min backup solution.

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: U' B' L U F D'

F2L minus 1 slot: U2 L B L' B2 D'
More square: R U
All but 3 corners: F R F' R U' R' * U R U' R2
Correction: U' B' L U F D'

Insert at *: B' U F' U' B U F U'

No better solution was found...



2nd scramble: B2 U R2 F2 R2 U' L2 D' L2 F2 D' R U' L' D' F D2 B' U2 R' D'
2nd solution: L U' F' D F U B2 R' B' R D' R' B2 L B' L' B2 R D' B D B U' B2 R B' R' U (DNF)


Spoiler



Stuck on the start for inverse scramble:

(Inverse)
2x2x2 block: U' R B R' B2 U

Simple continuation may be B2 L', but I couldn't find further continuation.

In the final 10 min., I decided to write some solution for normal scramble.

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: U' B2 R B' R' U

2x2x3 block: L U' F' D F U
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 R' B' R D'
All but 3 corners: R' B2 L B' L' B2 R D' B D B
Correction: U' B2 R B' R' U

but time was up here. 



3rd scramble: B2 D2 B' L2 R2 B2 L B2 U R' F D2 L' B D U' B' R'
3rd solution: U F L F2 D' R' F2 R F' D2 B' L2 D L' D Bw2 D' L D Bw2 D2 B' L' B2 L' U' L' U B U2 F D (DNF)


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: U2 F D

1st square: (ready)
2nd square: U F L F2
3rd square: D' R' F2 R
Complete 2x2x3 block: F' D2
More square: B' L * B' L'
All but 2c2e: B2 L' U' L' U B
Correction: U2 F D

Insert at *: L (D L' D Bw2 D' L D Bw2 D2 L) L'

I wrote down this solution in the final few minutes to submit a backup solution, but it remained 2 twisted corners... 



I believe the 1st scramble is nice, but 2nd and 3rd scrambles are hard.
Congrats to the winners, who could manage to find proper solutions!


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## irontwig (Apr 6, 2014)

My second place average of 28 34 31= 31:



Spoiler



D' L' B L2 R U R' F B R U D R' U2 R D' R' U' B' U' R' U2 R U R' U R (28)
Premoves are R2 D':

D' L' B L2 [2x2x2+pairs]
R U R' F B R U R'.U B' [F2L]
U' R' U2 R U R' U R [Leaving three corners]

.=R D R' U2 R D' R' U2

20 minute solution, so a nice stress free start





Spoiler



F U' L' R' F2 D' B D' U R2 F' U' F U2 F' D' B2 D' F U F' D2 F U' D' B2 L' U L D2 L' U' L D2 (34)

F U' L' R' [EO] 
F2 D' B D' U R2 F' U' F U2 D'.*[Leaving seven corners]

.=D F' D' B2 D:F D' B2
:=D2 F U F' D2 F U' F'
*=L'U L D2 L' U' L D2

I had pleny of time left (~30 minutes) when I found the skeleton, but I was really nervous (shaking) and kept on making silly mistakes, so the insertions are very far from optimal.





Spoiler



R' B U' B' R U L U' R' U L' F R' F2 R U F U2 F U L' B' U F' U' B' U F R F D (31)

On the inverse:
D' F' R' U' B2 L [2x2x2+pairs]

Switch to the normal scramble:
R' B U' B' [2x2x3]
U:F [Some random dancing around]
R' F2 R [EO]
U F U2 F U [Leaving four corners]
L' B2 U.R F D [Premoves]

.=U' B U F' U' B' U F
:=U' R U L U' R U L' 

With two minutes left I saw I had a apostrophe missing (got a 2E2E+2C2C swap when I checked my solution), but managed to find the place and double check literally last-minute. Turns out I missed a better insertion at the dot; F L2 F' R F L2 F' R' would cancel four instead of three moves and result in a better second insertion for a 29 move total, gotta look more carefully for cancellations from the back.



Lesson learnt: Mean of 3 is really stressful (for me at least)


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## porkynator (Apr 6, 2014)

My solves at BP Cube Day (27 26 32 = 28.33)

Scramble #1: L' D2 R U2 R2 B2 L2 F2 R2 B R B2 U L2 D2 L2 U L2 R2


Spoiler



Solution: F2 R' B' R F2 R' B R2 B2 R' L F' D L2 D' F2 L F L' F L2 B L' F' L B' L (27 HTM)

* R B2 R' //2x2x2 (3/3)
L F' D L2 D' //2x2x3 + 2x2x1 + 2x1x1 (5/8)
F2 L F //Tripod (3/11)
L' F L2 B L' F' L B' L //All but 3 corners (9/20)
* = F2 R' B' R F2 R' B R //3c (7/27)

Easy scramble; I've found this solution in 15 minutes I think. I found 2 other 27 moves solutons, one of which had all but 3 edges and 3 corners in 11 or 12 (I don't remember exacty) but terrible cancelations.



Scramble #2: B' L2 U2 R U D' R' U2 D' R2 B2 U2 B2 L2 F' D2 F L2 F' U2


Spoiler



Solution: D2 F R2 B' U' L U R2 U' L' U R' D2 F2 D' U L U' L' U L2 U' L F2 U B (26 HTM)

Using my notation for NISS (briefly explained: moves between brackets are done on inverse scramble)
D2 //2x1x1 (1/1)
(B' U') //2x2x1 (2/3)
F R2 B' * R D //2x2x3 + 2x1x1 (5/8)
D F2 D' //Pseudo F2L-1 (2/10)
(F2) //F2L-1 (1/11)
U L U' L' U L2 U' L //All but 3 corners (8/19)
* = U' L U R2 U' L' U R2 //3c (7/26)

I'm really surprised, the start wasn't so good.



Scramble #3: F2 R2 D F2 L2 D2 F2 D' R' B' D2 B' L B2 R2 U2 B' F L


Spoiler



Solution: L R2 U2 F R' B' R D2 B2 D' B' D R D B2 R' B' R B2 L' B R' B' L B F' R F2 L' F' R2 L2 (32 HTM)

Using my notation for NISS (briefly explained: moves between brackets are done on inverse scramble)
L R2 U2 //Pseudo 3x2x1 (3/3)
(R2 L2) //3x2x1 (2/5)
(F L F2 R' F B') //Pseudo 2x2x3 + 3 ce pairs (6/11)
F //Adjust pseudoness (1/12)
R' B' R D2
B2 D' B' D R D R' //All but 2c2e (11/23)
J-perm to finish (R B2...) (9/32)

Not a nice scramble in my opinion, so I'm happy with my 32 moves solution



Second in the world


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## irontwig (Apr 6, 2014)

Nice job!


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## porkynator (Apr 6, 2014)

irontwig said:


> Nice job!



Thanks 
I've also rolled my avg100 to 29.74


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## EMI (Apr 6, 2014)

Here is my second place 28 moves solution from yesterday.


Spoiler



Scramble (inverse solution):
R U F R' B R F' R' B D' B D' B' D2 B2 D B D2 R' B R2 D' R' F2 U' B' U2 R

(R U R') //1x2x2 (3/3)
R' U2 B U F2 // 2x2x3 (5/8)
R D R2 B' R // EO (5/13)
D2 B' // F2L-1 (2/15)
D' B2 D2 B D B' D B2 // F2L, 3C left (8/23)
Skeleton: R' U2 B U F2 R D R2 B' R D2 B' D' B2 D2 B D B' D B2 * R U' R'
* = [B, R F R']


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## cubeaddicted (Apr 13, 2014)

Can we bring specific pieces, like just corner pieces, to a competition?


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## TDM (Apr 13, 2014)

cubeaddicted said:


> Can we bring specific pieces, like just corner pieces, to a competition?


You can bring 3 cubes, and it says nothing in the rules against disassembling them. I don't think you'd be able to take just a few pieces though, unless you have less than 3 cubes.


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## Mikel (Apr 13, 2014)

*Five Official 69 Move FMC Attempts*

This video shows animations of 5/7 of my official FMC attempts. A version without audio is found here.


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## TeddyKGB (Apr 13, 2014)

I couldn't take it, I had to mute my computer to watch this.


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## Mikel (Apr 13, 2014)

TeddyKGB said:


> I couldn't take it, I had to mute my computer to watch this.





Mikel said:


> A version without audio is found here.



Muting works too.


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## pinser (Apr 18, 2014)

How can I decrease my LL move count?
My F2L takes ~20-30 moves, but then my LL of ~10-20 moves really kills my move count...


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## Bindedsa (Apr 18, 2014)

pinser said:


> How can I decrease my LL move count?
> My F2L takes ~20-30 moves, but then my LL of ~10-20 moves really kills my move count...



20 moves is Gods number for LL. FMC with full LL isn't easy, try doing things during your F2L to influence your LL.


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## FinnGamer (Apr 18, 2014)

Bindedsa said:


> 20 moves is Gods number for LL. FMC with full LL isn't easy, try doing things during your F2L to influence your LL.



Is there really a LL that takes 20 moves optimally?


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## Bindedsa (Apr 18, 2014)

FinnGamer said:


> Is there really a LL that takes 20 moves optimally?


Kirjava said that a while ago somewhere, I assumed he was right.


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## Jakube (Apr 18, 2014)

FinnGamer said:


> Is there really a LL that takes 20 moves optimally?



According to this list of all possible last layer case, you can solve every last layer in max. 16 moves. 17 with AUF. Maybe even less.


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## Sebastien (Apr 21, 2014)

My 21 move ER solution:

Scramble: R2 D' B' U D2 F2 R2 L2 F' R L' B2 D2 R D2 L D2

Solution (written in a no-switch way):

Premove: L2
2x2x2: B' U' D' F2
2x2x3: L' B' L' B2
F2L-1+Domino-Reduction: L2 B' U B
Finish: F2 U F2 U F2 U2 F2 U'

Solution: B' U' D' F2 L' B' L' B2 L2 B' U B F2 U F2 U F2 U2 F2 U' L2 (21 moves)

The solution is a bit too lucky for my taste, I hope to get a less lucky solution if I ever beat this in competition. 

The two 27 move solutions completing the new average WR had L3C skeletons in 21 and 20 moves. Too bad about the rather bad cancelations.


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## Bhargav777 (Apr 22, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> My 21 move ER solution:
> 
> Scramble: R2 D' B' U D2 F2 R2 L2 F' R L' B2 D2 R D2 L D2
> 
> ...



Awesome! How do you usually go about after the 2x2x3? Pseudo blocks and comms or anything else based on scramble?


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## cuBerBruce (Apr 22, 2014)

Jakube said:


> According to this list of all possible last layer case, you can solve every last layer in max. 16 moves. 17 with AUF. Maybe even less.



Definitely less. The cases that take 16 moves can all be done in 16 moves for all 4 AUF cases as I indicated here. So God's number for the last layer is 16 whether you require alignment with the first two layers or not.


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## Sebastien (Apr 22, 2014)

Bhargav777 said:


> Awesome! How do you usually go about after the 2x2x3? Pseudo blocks and comms or anything else based on scramble?



You seem to assume that I always start with a 2x2x3 block, which is not always true. I basically just try everything which looks promising based on the scramble.


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## Bhargav777 (Apr 23, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> You seem to assume that I always start with a 2x2x3 block, which is not always true. I basically just try everything which looks promising based on the scramble.



Guess I put it the wrong way. I always get ~9 moves 2x2x3 block and struggle after that. How would you suggest me to go about?


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## Sebastien (Apr 23, 2014)

I have no general advise except deliberate practise, sorry. 

Or maybe, even though that's quite obvious: Solve the edges and as many corners meanwhile as reasonable.


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## Bhargav777 (Apr 23, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> I have no general advise except deliberate practise, sorry.
> 
> Or maybe, even though that's quite obvious: Solve the edges and as many corners meanwhile as reasonable.



Oops. That's alright. Thanks a lot anyway!


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## mehdi-roshan (Apr 30, 2014)

my solves from CubeComp I Iran 2014


Scramble 1 :
U' L' D2 L2 B' R F2 L2 U' B D' B2 D' F2 U' R2 U R2 F2 B2 

Solution : U' D' F2 L U' F D U2 L2 D' U R' F R F' U' F U' F2 U2 L D' L' U2 L D L' U2 F U2 L2 U' L U2 (34 HTM)



Spoiler



2x2x2 : U' D' F2 L U' F
2X2X3 : D U2 L2 D' 
All but 3 corners : U R' F R F' U' F U' F2 U2 # F U2 L2 U' L U2 

Insert at # = L D' L' U2 L D L' U2



Scramble 2 :
F2 L2 D' L2 F2 D' R2 B' L2 B2 U R' F2 D2 F' U2 F2 R2 

Solution : U B2 U2 B L2 U' R' U' R U2 R2 U' L' U R2 U' L R U R' U' F' U' F2 U' F' U' F' U' F U' (31 HTM)



Spoiler



2x2x2 Block : U B2 U2 B L2

invers 

Premove : L2 B' U2 B2 U'
1x2x2 : U F' U F U F U
2X2X3 : F2 U F 
All but 3 corners: U R U' R' # U' R' U R U 
Correction: L2 B' U2 B2 U'

Inser at # = L' U R2 U' L U R2 U' 

Final solution : U B2 U2 B L2 U' R' U' R U2 R2 U' L' U R2 U' L R U R' U' F' U' F2 U' F' U' F' U' F U' (31 HTM)




Scramble 3 :
U2 F L2 B D2 F2 U2 B2 D L' D B2 R2 U L F' L2 D2 R2

Solution : D' R' D F U2 B D' B U F2 B U2 B U L' U' L' U L' U L U F U' F' U2 L' U2 R U' L U R' (33 HTM)



Spoiler



2x2x2 : D' R' D F U2 B D' B U F2 
2x2x3 : B U2 B 
F2L minus 1 slot : U L' U' L' 
All but 3 corners : U L' U L U F U' F' U2 L' U L U #

Insert at # = U L' U R U ' L U R '


Final solution : D' R' D F U2 B D' B U F2 B U2 B U L' U' L' U L' U L U F U' F' U2 L' U2 R U' L U R' (33 HTM)


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## Meneghetti (May 9, 2014)

My 29 move SAR solution:

Scramble: F D2 B2 D2 B' L2 R2 B' L' R' D2 U' B' D2 R2 B' R2
Solution: F' U B U2 B' R U R2 L' B' L B2 U2 B' U' B' U R B' D B D2 R D R2 L2 F L' D'

(on inverse)
Premove: F // corrects pseudoness
D L F' L2 // pseudo 2x2x2

(switch to normal)
Premoves: L2 F L' D' // pre-2x2x2
F' // 2x2x2
U B U2 B' R U R2 // 2x2x3
L' B' L // EO
B2 U2 // F2L-1
B' U' B' U // square
R B' D B D2 R D R2 // tripod

Results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=484&cat=15&rnd=1


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## coldsun0630 (May 11, 2014)

I've just found a good F2L-1, but I have no idea to end. How can I finish it? Please help me...



Spoiler



Scramble: R2 U B D B R' U' F D2 L B R D B2 D' R B' D R' U2


(Normal)
Pseudo 222: U' L2 U R' U

(Inverse)
Premove: U' R U' L2 U
223: U' D2 B2 L' B'
Psuedo F2L-1: L D' B' L2 B

(Normal)
Premove: B' L2 B D L' / B L B2 D2 U
More Blocks: U' L2 U R' U / D L D2


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## Evan Liu (May 13, 2014)

My winning 33-move solution from French Championship 2014

Scramble: F R2 B L2 R2 U2 F' D2 B D' L U F' D' U2 R' U2 R2 D' L'


Spoiler



Solution: R' D' B' F2 U' F U D B R' B2 U L U' R2 U L' U' R2 D2 B R' D R F' D' F' D F' D F' D' F (33)

2x2x2: R' D' B' F2 U' F U (7/7)
2x2x3: D B R' B2 * D2 B (6/13)
F2L-1: R' D R F' D' F' D (7/20)
L3C: F' D F' D' F (5/25)
Insert at *: U L U' R2 U L' U' R2 (0 moves cancel; 8/33)
IF confirms no cancellations were possible.


An alternate 34-move solution with a 17-move F2L:


Spoiler



Solution: D' U B' L F' L' D' F' D2 R D R2 F' R' F D2 R F R' F D' F2 D' L D2 F' D' F' D F D' L' F2 R' (34)

Premove: R' (1/1)
2x2x2: D' U B' L F' L' (6/7)
2x2x3: D' F' D2 *R2* (4/11)
F2L: *R'* D R2 F' R' F *D* (6/17)
OLL: *D* R F R' F D' *F' D F' D'* (6/23)
PLL: *D F D' F'* D' L D2 F' D' F' D F D' L' F2 (11/34)


Tips/improvements?


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## cubeaddicted (May 15, 2014)

Can you do an edge and a corner swap simultaneously (like T-perm) using commutators?


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## EMI (May 15, 2014)

cubeaddicted said:


> Can you do an edge and a corner swap simultaneously (like T-perm) using commutators?



That has parity, but commutators normally are 3-cycles. What you can do though is a commutator + a single turn, like a J-perm.


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## cubeaddicted (May 16, 2014)

I didn't get it. Could please explain?


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## yoinneroid (May 16, 2014)

cubeaddicted said:


> I didn't get it. Could please explain?



T perm has a parity, so it needs to be fixed with a single turn such as U
however there is no easy fix which could turn the T perm into an obvious 3-cycle
on the other hand, you can try set it up into a J perm (which is also a 2C2E case)
you can fix J perm with U' and get a simple 3-cycle solvable with [B:[F Dw2 F', U']]


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## Deleted member 19792 (May 16, 2014)

Scramble: D2 L' B2 U2 L' U2 R' B2 D2 B2 D2 B D2 U' L2 D' B F2 D B' R' 

Solution : B2 L' B2 L' R U' L U2 L' R B' R' B R B2 R D2 B R' L B L' B L B' L' B' r B R' B'
r' U R U' B2 R B' R B R B R B' R' B' R2 B2

Moves: 47


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## Attila (May 16, 2014)

Meneghetti said:


> My 29 move SAR solution:
> 
> Scramble: F D2 B2 D2 B' L2 R2 B' L' R' D2 U' B' D2 R2 B' R2
> Solution: F' U B U2 B' R U R2 L' B' L B2 U2 B' U' B' U R B' D B D2 R D R2 L2 F L' D'
> ...


Congratz, first of all. 
I note, this scramble extremely easy for corners-first or Roux solvers. 
In my opinion, the judges should eliminate the scramble, if at first sight too easy.


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## kinch2002 (May 16, 2014)

Attila said:


> Congratz, first of all.
> I note, this scramble extremely easy for corners-first or Roux solvers.
> In my opinion, the judges should eliminate the scramble, if at first sight too easy.



I'm afraid I totally disagree. Arbitrary filtering is even worse than computer-defined filtering. Luck happens, and there's no point trying to prevent it from happening because it will always exist.


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## TeddyKGB (May 18, 2014)

Got a new PB 22 moves, it was pretty lucky but I'll take it.

Scramble: D2 R' U2 F2 R2 U2 B2 R' U2 F U R' U' R F U2 F R'

(on inverse scramble)

2x2x2: B2 * L2 U F
2x2x3: D2 R2 D R *D'*
F2L -1: *D* B' D' B 
Leave 3 corners: R2 U R' U' R2

Insert at *: D' R D L2 D' R' D L2 (2 moves cancel)

Solution: R2 U R U' R2 B' D B R' D' R2 D2 F' U' D' R D L2 D' R' D B2 ( 22-moves)


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## kinch2002 (May 18, 2014)

Scrambles from Oxford Open 2014 this weekend if anyone wants to try them:
1. B2 U2 R2 D2 F R2 F' R2 D2 L2 B R U2 F' L2 U B2 L R
2. R2 B2 U' F2 D' L2 U' L2 F2 U2 R2 B L' B2 U F2 L R' D' F R
3. B2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 U R2 B2 U L2 B' L D' L2 D R' U R' F'

I had 29, 29, 24 = 27.33
Thanks to that single they
are both NRs and 7th/3rd in the world for single/average 

I will post at least the 24 solution tomorrow


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## Mollerz (May 19, 2014)

This weekend I got a 32 move solution on the 3rd scramble at Oxford Open 2014. I think it's quite a cool solution so I'll go ahead and post it even though it's not totally amazing, but I'm pretty proud of it!

Scramble: B2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 U R2 B2 U L2 B' L D' L2 D R' U R' F'

*2x2x2:* R2 B' D R2 D
_ *NISS ->*_
*2x2x3:* U' F2 B' R B
*EO:* R D' F2 D
*Blocks+Edges:* F' R' F R F2 R F2

This leaves a 5 corner cycle.
Solution with insertions:

R2 B' D R2 D
F2 F' F2 R' F' *[SUP]+[/SUP] R F
D F2 D' R'
B' R' B F2 U

*: F' U' B U F U' B' U - Cancels 1 move
+: U' R D2 R' U R D2 R' - Cancels 4 moves

*Final solution:* R2 B' D R2 D F2 F' F2 R' F2 U' B U F U' B' R D2 R' U R D2 F D F2 D' R' B' R' B F2 U

Turns out the optimal insertion was 7 moves. I arbitrarily labelled the corner cycle 1-5. I searched the 3-cycles of 123, 234 and half of 345 before I ran out of time. The optimal started with a 512 cycle. The 345 cycle that paired with this was right at the end of the solution so I just missed it.


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## Meneghetti (May 20, 2014)

My 33 move solution from my SAR average (33,38,36 = 35.67)

Scramble: U2 B2 U B2 U2 B2 D2 L' B' D2 F2 D2 B2 L2 R B' D' F' U
Solution: U2 L2 U2 F' D R2 D' L D R2 D' F U B U2 B2 U B2 U' B L' D' B' D L B L U R' F2 U' B D'

(on inverse)
D B' U F2 R // 2x2x2

(switch to normal)
Premoves: L U R' F2 U' B D' // 2x2x2 and pseudo correction
U2 L2 U2 F' L * F // pseudo 2x2x3
U B U2 // pseudo F2L-1
B2 U B2 U' // two pairs
B L' D' B' D L B // AB3C

* insertion: L' D R2 D' L D R2 D' // 2 cancellations

Results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=505&cat=15&rnd=1



Spoiler



It was a pretty good scramble for fluent Triangular-Francisco solvers, so I guess the judges should have eliminated the scramble at first sight, right?


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## Cubo largo (May 20, 2014)

A J perm is a block 3-cycle+AUF


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## kinch2002 (May 20, 2014)

My *24 move NR* from Oxford Open 2014 3rd scramble

Scramble: B2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 U R2 B2 U L2 B' L D' L2 D R' U R' F'

2x2x3: D R2 D2 L U2 D L' U (8)
Preserve pair and make Block: R2 D B D' (12)
F2L and leave 3 corners: B U' B' U R U R' U' B' R2 (22)

Skeleton: D R2 D2 L U2 * D L' U R2 D B D' B U' B' U R U R' U' B' R2
Insert L' U' L D L' U L D' at * to cancel 5 moves, giving the following 25 move solution:
D R2 D2 L U2 L' U' L D L' U2 R2 D B D' B U' B' U R U R' U' B' R2

Then, I noticed that the last part of the solution is actually a block comm (with a couple of setup moves and some cancellation), so I used the skeleton
D R2 D2 L U2 L' U' L D L' U2 R2 D B D' B' * R2, which leaves a block comm
Insert F R' D' R' D R F' R at * to cancel 1 move and gives the 24 move solution

Solution: D R2 D2 L U2 L' U' L D L' U2 R2 D B D' B' F R' D' R' D R F' R2 (24)

As a side note, I currently have an official 28.1 avg12


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## TeddyKGB (May 21, 2014)

Mollerz said:


> Turns out the optimal insertion was 7 moves. I arbitrarily labelled the corner cycle 1-5. I searched the 3-cycles of 123, 234 and half of 345 before I ran out of time. The optimal started with a 512 cycle. The 345 cycle that paired with this was right at the end of the solution so I just missed it.



Are you saying you go through your skeleton multiple times first looking for 123 then a second time looking for 234 etc. Is this just to make it easier to see good insertions? Do other people do it this way as well? When I go through a skeleton I look for all of them at the same time, I'll admit it does get a little confusing at times and I have occasionally miss some good cancelations but your way seems rather time consuming, assuming I'm understanding it right.


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## cubeaddicted (May 21, 2014)

Would [R' F R,U] be expanded as (R' F R U R' F' R U') or (R' F R U R F' R' U')?


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## Jakube (May 21, 2014)

cubeaddicted said:


> Would [R' F R,U] be expanded as (R' F R U R' F' R U') or (R' F R U R F' R' U')?



The first one is correct.


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## cubeaddicted (May 21, 2014)

But a commutator is in the form of A B A' B', so shouldn't [R' F R,U] be written as (R' F R) U (R' F R)' U' = R' F R U R F' R U'?


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## Brest (May 21, 2014)

cubeaddicted said:


> Would [R' F R,U] be expanded as (R' F R U R' F' R U') or (R' F R U R F' R' U')?





cubeaddicted said:


> But a commutator is in the form of A B A' B', so shouldn't [R' F R,U] be written as (R' F R) U (R' F R)' U' = R' F R U R F' R U'?



When inverting a sequence of moves, you invert the order of moves as well as the direction.

[R' F R,U]
=
A is (R' F R) 
B is (U)
=
A B A' B'
=
(R' F R) (U) (R' F R)' (U)'
=
(R' F R) U (R' F' R) U'


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## tseitsei (May 21, 2014)

cubeaddicted said:


> But a commutator is in the form of A B A' B', so shouldn't [R' F R,U] be written as (R' F R) U *(R' F R)'* U' = R' F R U *R F' R* U'?



No.

Because in this case A=R' F R
and you make A' by taking the inverse of A, so read the moves from back to front and add ' to every move there isn't one and remove ' from the moves that already have '

so that would make A' = R' (last R move and added ') F' (then F move and added ') and R (last R' move and removed ') = R' F' R

P.S. that "commutator" you gave as an example doesn't seem to do anything that makes sense to me even when executed correctly tough

Edit: Ninja'd

Edit2: Brest: I think there might be a mistake in your post


> [R' F R,U]
> =
> A is (R' F R)
> B is (U)
> ...



Should be R' F' R


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## Sebastien (May 21, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> I had 29, 29, 24 = 27.33
> Thanks to that single they
> are both NRs and 7th/3rd in the world for single/average
> 
> I will post at least the 24 solution tomorrow





kinch2002 said:


> My *24 move NR* from Oxford Open 2014 3rd scramble
> 
> Scramble: B2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 U R2 B2 U L2 B' L D' L2 D R' U R' F'
> 
> ...



Congratz for all of this! Really cool solution as well.


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## cubeaddicted (May 21, 2014)

Thanks!
PS - Those were just random moves I came up that instant


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## ottozing (May 21, 2014)

Was looking through old messages between me and Brest and eventually found the 31 I got at Shepparton.

Scramble: R2 D' U' B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' L2 B2 R' U B U2 L D B

B2 U' D2 L2 F U' (2x2x2) 6/31
B' R D B2 (2x2x3 or XXcross) 10/31
D2 R D R' (F2L minus last slot) 14/31
D F' R F R' D2 R' D R (EOLS) 23/31
F' D B D' F D B' D2 (LL) 31/31

I should really learn how to actually FMC instead of doing yolo blocks >_>


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## Brest (May 21, 2014)

ottozing said:


> Was looking through old messages between me and Brest and eventually found the 31 I got at Shepparton.



This reminded me to foinally post.

My skeleton was:

(L' R2) // premoves
R2 D' U' B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' L2 B2 R' U B U2 L D B

R' U2 R' F R // 2x2x1 +pairs
L U B' D // pseudo 2x2x2 (premove R2)
L D F2 D' // pseudo F2L-1 (premove L')
B' U2 B2 L' B' L // L4C
(L' R2) // premoves

then fail insertions... I should practice them (IF gives 6 moves cancel for a 29)

-*-

Faz 30 OcR

R2 D' U' B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' L2 B2 R' U B U2 L D B

U2 F' R2 D R D' // 2x2x2
U' B2 R B' // 2x2x3
U2 R U' R' U' R // F2L-1
U R U R' U' F' U F // F2L
F U R U' R' F' U2 // finish

-*-
and some practice leading up to Caltech:


Spoiler



<Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #25274: R D' R B D R B R' U F2 L' U' B U L2 F' B2 U2 F2 R' F2 R' B' F2 U2
<Brest> ,i R D' R B D R B R' U F2 L' U' B U L2 F' B2 U2 F2 R' F2 R' B' F2 U2
<Nibblr> inverse: U2 F2 B R F2 R F2 U2 B2 F L2 U' B' U L F2 U' R B' R' D' B' R' D R'
<Brest> B D B' L' D'
<Brest> L2 U2 L
<Brest> R B L B' R'
<Brest> L' U' L U B2
<Brest> D' L2 D L D' L D L2
<Brest> D2
<Brest> 27

-*-
<Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #25277: L R2 D2 R' B2 F U F D' F2 U' B F' L2 U R2 F2 D' F' L B' U2 D' B' U'
<Brest> 23 to L3C
<Brest> and I forgot my stickers... -.-
<Brest> IF gives 28
<Brest> not bad for 8 mins

U' F' B' D
L2 U2 F2 U' F'
L B L B'
L F L2 F' L2 D2 B D B' D
// 23

-*-
<Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #25278: B F D' U2 B2 L R' B U' B2 F2 U F2 L2 D L B2 U' R' D' R2 L2 D2 R' U
<Brest> 27 to L3C (4 cancel 31)
<Brest> then 26 to L3C (3 cancel 31 lol)
<Brest> then 22 to L3C (4 cancel 26 yay)
<Brest> hey 27 mins
<Brest> 3 solutions
<Brest> ntbd
<Brest> (except finding insertions)
<Brest> ((which is the long part for me))

L' F L D B U2
F' L F L' F2 L2 F'
L' D L B' L B L'
F D2 F' D' F D' F'
// 27

L' F L D B U2
F' L F L' F2 L2 F'
B D' R D' R' D2 B2 L B L' B D B'
// 26

L' D F L B U2
L' F2 L2 F D2 F L'
D L U R' B R U' L'
D2
// 22

-*-
<Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #25280: L D' R' U' D B U' F' D2 U' F' R' D L' F2 U2 F2 B' R F' B D2 U2 L' F2

(R2 U') // premoves

F L2 U L' F D' // 2x2x2
R2 F U' // F2L-1 (AreYouAWizard.jpg)
x // to make it easier to see
F' U2 F // EO
U' R U R' // square and pairs
U2 R U' R' U // finish lel
23 awhohohoyeah.jpg


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## Alchemistake (May 21, 2014)

I see SAR everywhere i did my research but i didn't find any explanation for it.
What does SAR solution or SAR average?


----------



## TDM (May 21, 2014)

Alchemistake said:


> I see SAR everywhere i did my research but i didn't find any explanation for it.
> What does SAR solution or SAR average?


South American Record.


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## coldsun0630 (May 21, 2014)

I just got a 32 moves solution.



Spoiler



Scramble: D' B2 R F2 R' D' F U' R2 U2 L2 U2 F2 D F U' F2 U2 R2 B' D' R2 U2 B U2
Solution: B2 U' R B' R' F R B R' U' F' U B' R B2 L' R' U' B2 U' B' D2 L D' L R U' R D R' U R (32)


(On Inverse Scramble)

B2 // Premove (1/1)
D' R2 L' D L' D2 // 2x2x2 Block (6/7)
B U B2 U R L B2 R' B // Tripod (9/16)
U' F U F' U // L4C (5/21)

Skeleton: B2 U' [1] F U' F' U B' R B2 L' R' U' B2 U' B' D2 L D' L R2 D [2]

- Insertion
[1]: R B' R' F R B R' F'
[2]: D' R' U' R D R' U R



I have no idea to use Tripod more efficiently..


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## Mollerz (May 21, 2014)

TeddyKGB said:


> Are you saying you go through your skeleton multiple times first looking for 123 then a second time looking for 234 etc. Is this just to make it easier to see good insertions? Do other people do it this way as well? When I go through a skeleton I look for all of them at the same time, I'll admit it does get a little confusing at times and I have occasionally miss some good cancelations but your way seems rather time consuming, assuming I'm understanding it right.



Yeah I went through multiple times. This way I'm only looking for one insertion and I don't have to keep looking for different corners every single time. Say for example I get to my 5th move and all 123 corners are on the same face and there's no good insertion, if I then do a move and they stay on all the same face, or I do a move which affects none of them, I already know the insertion so I can see if there are any cancellations.


----------



## kinch2002 (May 21, 2014)

Mollerz said:


> Yeah I went through multiple times. This way I'm only looking for one insertion and I don't have to keep looking for different corners every single time. Say for example I get to my 5th move and all 123 corners are on the same face and there's no good insertion, if I then do a move and they stay on all the same face, or I do a move which affects none of them, I already know the insertion so I can see if there are any cancellations.


Yes, being able to look trace the pair faster is a nice advantage, but you have to do 6 passes (5 possible first insertions, then the 2nd insertion). Do you just take the best first insertion and hope for luck with the second one?

I still think 1-pass is faster, and it gives you the chance to find the best combo of cancellations.


----------



## Mollerz (May 21, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> Yes, being able to look trace the pair faster is a nice advantage, but you have to do 6 passes (5 possible first insertions, then the 2nd insertion). Do you just take the best first insertion and hope for luck with the second one?
> 
> I still think 1-pass is faster, and it gives you the chance to find the best combo of cancellations.



I tried 1 pass and was completely overwhelmed by insertions.


----------



## TeddyKGB (May 22, 2014)

Mollerz said:


> I tried 1 pass and was completely overwhelmed by insertions.



That is how I feel a lot of the time, which is why I was somewhat intrigued by the way you do it. I never even thought about doing it that way. It just seems like it would take way too much time to be worth it.


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## coldsun0630 (May 22, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> I still think 1-pass is faster, and it gives you the chance to find the best combo of cancellations.



Excuse me, but what does '1-pass' stands for?


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## kinch2002 (May 22, 2014)

coldsun0630 said:


> Excuse me, but what does '1-pass' stands for?


When you do insertions, you work your way through the skeleton, looking for a good place to insert a commutator. A 'Pass' means that you work through the skeleton once, from beginning to end. That means that a single insertion (most common would be 3 corners) will take 1 pass. However, a double insertion such as for 4 or 5 corners, has many possibilities for stickers to cycle in each insertion.

The obvious way to insert 5 corners would be to do 6 passes: A pass for each of the sticker cycles 123/234/345/451/512 to find the best first insertion, and then a final 6th pass for the second insertion.

However, when I say that I prefer 1-pass, it means that I check all possibilities for the 2 insertions while working through the skeleton just once. Then I look back and pick the the best combo of insertions.


----------



## mycube (May 22, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> When you do insertions, you work your way through the skeleton, looking for a good place to insert a commutator. A 'Pass' means that you work through the skeleton once, from beginning to end. That means that a single insertion (most common would be 3 corners) will take 1 pass. However, a double insertion such as for 4 or 5 corners, has many possibilities for stickers to cycle in each insertion.
> 
> The obvious way to insert 5 corners would be to do 6 passes: A pass for each of the sticker cycles 123/234/345/451/512 to find the best first insertion, and then a final 6th pass for the second insertion.
> 
> However, when I say that I prefer 1-pass, it means that I check all possibilities for the 2 insertions while working through the skeleton just once. Then I look back and pick the the best combo of insertions.



Lol, I never thought about just doing 1-pass and take the best combo of insertions. I always did 2-pass for 4 or 5 insertions. In the first I search the best possible Insertion and in the second pass I search for the best insertion for the last 3 corners.


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## kinch2002 (May 22, 2014)

mycube said:


> Lol, I never thought about just doing 1-pass and take the best combo of insertions. I always did 2-pass for 4 or 5 insertions. In the first I search the best possible Insertion and in the second pass I search for the best insertion for the last 3 corners.


There is one disadvantage - you miss the possible cases where one commutator overlaps with another. However, I think that the advantage of knowing the cancellations of your 2nd insertion will outweigh that disadvantage.


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## coldsun0630 (May 22, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> When you do insertions, you work your way through the skeleton, looking for a good place to insert a commutator. A 'Pass' means that you work through the skeleton once, from beginning to end. That means that a single insertion (most common would be 3 corners) will take 1 pass. However, a double insertion such as for 4 or 5 corners, has many possibilities for stickers to cycle in each insertion.
> 
> The obvious way to insert 5 corners would be to do 6 passes: A pass for each of the sticker cycles 123/234/345/451/512 to find the best first insertion, and then a final 6th pass for the second insertion.
> 
> However, when I say that I prefer 1-pass, it means that I check all possibilities for the 2 insertions while working through the skeleton just once. Then I look back and pick the the best combo of insertions.



Ah-ha! Now I've understood. Could I ask you one more question?

I usually do 3-corner insertion with this method. But, when 4(or 5)corners or 3 edges left, I can't use that method. So, I use two cubes which one is from original scramble, and the other is from inverse-skeleton(which corners are solved).

So the question is, how do you insert 4~5 corners or 3(or even more) edges?


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## Dall (May 24, 2014)

Last weekend at a competition I participated at FMC. Normally, I do solves around 40 moves so I didn't expect anything special.

At second round I got the luckiest solve I could get. I got the solve and saw an easy cross + easy pair, so I decided to give it a try with CFOP. Result with first try was 25 moves and tied NR.

I'll post the solve like I wrote it down, cross on B.

Scramble: F D R' L' F' L' F2 R2 L' D' R2 L2 F2 U2 D2 R2 D2 F U2 R2

Solve:
Cross: F' L D' L B
1st pair: F' D' F D
2nd pair: D F' D' L' F2 L
3rd pair: L F' L'
4th pair: F U F U'
OLL: U F U' F' U' R U R'

With move cancellations, total move count HTM = 25 moves.

This has got to be the luckiest solve I'll ever get


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## TDM (May 24, 2014)

Dall said:


> Scramble: F D R' L' F' L' F2 R2 L' D' R2 L2 F2 U2 D2 R2 D2 F U2 R2
> 
> Solve:
> Cross: F' L D' L B
> ...


Wow, that was _very_ lucky. Anyone want to time a speedsolve of this? And then again after practise?


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## dbax0999 (May 26, 2014)

Made some major updates to my weekly FMC site at http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/. Scrambles will be automatically posted at the midnight between Saturdays and Sundays.


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## antoineccantin (May 26, 2014)

TDM said:


> Wow, that was _very_ lucky. Anyone want to time a speedsolve of this? And then again after practise?



The best I got was 3.42. The high number of rotations is what makes it hard to do really fast.


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## irontwig (May 26, 2014)

dbax0999 said:


> Made some major updates to my weekly FMC site at http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/. Scrambles will be automatically posted at the midnight between Saturdays and Sundays.



http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/12/

wtf?


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## dbax0999 (May 26, 2014)

irontwig said:


> http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/12/
> 
> wtf?



I took your solution from this thread as an example of how a commented solution would like. I credited you, but I can take it down if you'd like.


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## Sebastien (May 26, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> There is one disadvantage - you miss the possible cases where one commutator overlaps with another. However, I think that the advantage of knowing the cancellations of your 2nd insertion will outweigh that disadvantage.



I don't see a reason to not combine both.

With 5 corners, I usually write down all insertions cancelling 2 moves or more together with labels as "234". I can see nice combinations then, but I usually do a second pass for the most promising first insertion(s), which takes only 1-2 minutes after all. Often, there are one or two really good cancelations and the other are clearly inferior, so it's worth to try in my opinion.

However, do you also do 1-pass for 4 corners? I can see this working without a twist in there but else not really.

What about 6/7 corners?


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## porkynator (May 26, 2014)

dbax0999 said:


> Made some major updates to my weekly FMC site at http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/. Scrambles will be automatically posted at the midnight between Saturdays and Sundays.



I found a nice solution for this week's scramble (F2 B L F' B2 L U' F L' D2 U F' L' R2 B F' R' B R2 U'):


Spoiler



Everything on inverse
At first I found this skeleton
U //square
L' B' U //square
B2 R D' //square
B' L' B //inner square
F R2 B U2 R2 F R F' //match squares and EO
U2 F' U F U //All but 3 corners

Leaving a single corner comm insertion in 23; not bad, but I wasn't completely satisfied. After playing around a bit with blocks I found this

On inverse

U //2x2x1 (1/1)
L' B R D' //2x2x1 (4/5)
F' R' B R B' //2x2x1 (5/10)
D2 F2 R' B R2 //F2L-1 (5/15)
U F' U F U' F' U' F U' //Finish (9/24)


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## vcuber13 (May 27, 2014)

My practice attempt for this weekend.

D2 L F2 L' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 U2 R' D L' U2 L B' R2 U' R' F'

Pre D
D’ R’ U2 D2 F’ D’ F // 2x2x2
U’ R’ B2 R U B’ D’ R D // F2L
U’ B’ D B’ D’ B2 U’ // COLL
B2 R U’ D B2 U D’ R B2 R’ // EPLL


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## irontwig (May 27, 2014)

vcuber13 said:


> My practice attempt for this weekend.
> 
> D2 L F2 L' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 U2 R' D L' U2 L B' R2 U' R' F'
> 
> ...



Here's a better way to solve that LL:

D B R B' R' D' 
D R D B' D' B R' D' R'


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## vcuber13 (May 27, 2014)

How did you find that?


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## irontwig (May 28, 2014)

I just vaguely remembered that that case could be solved with a 6+8 alg combo (with cancellations), so after trying another 6-mover I found the right solution. The nice thing about LL algs in FMC is that you really don't need to know them well at all to be able to use them in solutions. That reminds me that maybe I should finally finish learning 10htmll, it's really not _that_ much to memorize.


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## TeddyKGB (May 28, 2014)

vcuber13 said:


> My practice attempt for this weekend.
> 
> D2 L F2 L' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 U2 R' D L' U2 L B' R2 U' R' F'



I figured I'd do a practice attempt on the same scramble since we're going to the same comp this weekend.

2x2x1: U' F'
2x2x2: U R' U2
2x2x3: B L' D 
F2L -1: L D' B D B' D' B D 
L3C: B L2 B' L B L' B' L *

Insert at *: L' B L F L' B' L F (6 moves cancel)

Solution: U' F' U R' U2 B L' D L D' B D B' D' B D B L2 B' L B F L' B' L F' - 26 moves


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## Sebastien (May 28, 2014)

nice way to hide an LL skip


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## TeddyKGB (May 28, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> nice way to hide an LL skip



To be honest, that's the way I solved it. I even stickered my corners before realizing I could cancel a bunch of moves by just putting a comm at the end. I figured I should write it down the way I actually solved it rather than make people think I was good enough to see such a solution.


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## ilikecubing (May 31, 2014)

Got the FMC NR, finally a sub 30 official solve. The funny thing is that I am now tied with two other Indians with a 29 move solution.

Done at NCRO '14

Scramble : D L2 B2 F2 U' F2 D B2 L2 U2 L B L2 U' B' R' U2 B' R' F2

Solution : On Inverse scramble

B D F U' // 2X2
L U B D2 B' // 2X2X3 + cancellation
D2 R D R' U' // F2L minus 1
B' D' B D B2 D' B D // F2L leaving 3 corners
// (D D' cancelled)
D' Lw B L' B' Lw' D L B' // COLL

Final solution - B L' D' Lw B L B' Lw' B' D B2 D' B' D B U R D' R' D2 B D2 B' U' L' U F' D' B'


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## vcuber13 (Jun 1, 2014)

My 35 move winning solution from BOW.

Scramble: R2 D2 B' L2 U2 B2 F' L2 F' L2 R' F2 D' F R2 U2 F' U' L B2

*D' L' R' U' R B2 // 2x2x2 // 6
F2 U F L F' // Premove F // 2x2x3 // 5+1
B' U' B L U F' L F // F2L-1 + EO // 8
L' U' L U' L' U' L // 7

[U', L' U2 L] insert at *, I couldn't find any cancellations


U' L' D2 L U L' D2 L D' L' R' U' R B2 F2 U F L F' B' U' B L U F' L F L' U' L U' L' U' L F


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## Brest (Jun 2, 2014)

vcuber13 said:


> My 35 move winning solution from BOW.
> 
> Scramble: R2 D2 B' L2 U2 B2 F' L2 F' L2 R' F2 D' F R2 U2 F' U' L B2
> 
> ...



IF finds a 4 move cancellation for a 31 move solve :/

D' L' R' U' R B2 F2 U F L F' B' U' B L U [@1] F' L F L' U' L U' L' U' L F
Insert at @1: U' L' U R U' L U R'
Fewest moves: 31. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: D' L' R' U' R B2 F2 U F L F' B' U' B U R U' L U R' F' L F L' U' L U' L' U' L F
http://tinyurl.com/lxpmzp3



Spoiler: My attempt



F // CE pair but found nothing great so switch to inverse

F' // premove
B2 L' U F U2 R2 F' D F2 R L2 F L2 F B2 U2 L2 B D2 R2 // inverse scramble

B L // square
R D R' // Roux block
B D2 F2 D' // 2x2x3
L' U L' U2 L // square
L' U2 B L' B' U2 L // add EO
U L' U // F2L

there are a couple of ways for Sune to L3C and 1 cancels a move too, but switching back to normal is better

U' L U' L' U2 B L B' L U' L D F2 D2 B' R D' R' F L' B' // premoves (lol)
R2 D2 B' L2 U2 B2 F' L2 F' L2 R' F2 D' F R2 U2 F' U' L B2 // scramble

L' F L' F' L2 F // leave 3 corners, which is Sune with the original F cancelled and no AUF

leaving this skeleton:

L' F L' F' L2 F U' L U' L' U2 B L B' L U' L D F2 D2 B' R D' R' F L' B'

L' F (#) L' F' L2 (@) F
U' (%) L U' L' U2 B L B' L U' L
D F2 D2 B' (&) R D' R' F L' B'

# [F R F', L2] 2
@ [L B L', F] 3
% [D', L U2 L'] 3
& [B' L' B, R] 3

using @
L' F L' F' L' B L' F L B' L' U' L U' L' U2 B L B' L U' L D F2 D2 B' R D' R' F L' B' (32)


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## coldsun0630 (Jun 2, 2014)

I've tried a scramble from current Weekly Competition, but I had no idea to do AB3C.
On every scrambles, it is very hard to find good AB3C to me... Is there any tips to do AB3C?



Spoiler: WARNING: The Weekly Competetion Is Now On Going



Scramble: U F' L B2 U' L F2 B R' U2 B2 R2 F U2 L2 D2 F' U2 B
Inv. Scramble: B' U2 F D2 L2 U2 F' R2 B2 U2 R B' F2 L' U B2 L' F U'


(Normal)
U F' // 1x2x2

(Inverse)
F U' // Premove
R' F R2 // 2x2x2
B' L D2 B L' B D2 B L' B D // F2L-1


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## pinser (Jun 2, 2014)

What is AB3C?


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## Jakube (Jun 2, 2014)

All but 3 corners


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## Cubenovice (Jun 2, 2014)

Have not yet seen this abbreviation but it surely is All But 3 Corners


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## TeddyKGB (Jun 2, 2014)

coldsun0630 said:


> I've tried a scramble from current Weekly Competition, but I had no idea to do AB3C.
> On every scrambles, it is very hard to find good AB3C to me... Is there any tips to do AB3C?
> 
> 
> ...



L B L B' L' U' L U L2 U' L' U L2


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## dbax0999 (Jun 5, 2014)

Weekly FMC id#24 (ongoing)


Spoiler



Scramble: U2 D B F R' L F' R2 U B F' U' D' L R U B' L' R F2

Solution:
y' z R F' R2 L' U' // 1x2x3 (5/5)
L2 B L F2 //pseudo 2x2x3 (4/9)
R' B R2 //f2l-1 (3/12)
B' R' B' R2 D' R2 D R' D' R D //finish f2l  (11/23)
z' R2 B' R' B R' F' U' F R U R' U F' //t-perm + 2flip + AUF (13/36)


With cancellations it comes out to 35 moves. Need to get better with insertions before Nats, it was pretty lucky that I got a t-perm + 2-flip at the end that I knew from Classic Pochmann. I found some decent skeletons but going through to find a good insertion with cancellations would put me over an hour for sure.


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## coldsun0630 (Jun 6, 2014)

http://fmc.mustcube.net/
I cannot enter this site. Does it happen only for me?


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## Attila (Jun 6, 2014)

coldsun0630 said:


> http://fmc.mustcube.net/
> I cannot enter this site. Does it happen only for me?


This site not working a few months ago


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## porkynator (Jun 6, 2014)

coldsun0630 said:


> http://fmc.mustcube.net/
> I cannot enter this site. Does it happen only for me?



As an alternative, this new site works nicely: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/
Last week only 2 solutions were submitted, it will be nice to have more people competing


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## kinch2002 (Jun 6, 2014)

porkynator said:


> As an alternative, this new site works nicely: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/
> Last week only 2 solutions were submitted, it will be nice to have more people competing


Yay a new FM competition site. I will try take part sometimes. I never liked mustcube because of the long scrambles.

David - are you going to develop the site further? Perhaps an image of the scrambled cube? Eventually some statistics e.g. averages?


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## dbax0999 (Jun 6, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> Yay a new FM competition site. I will try take part sometimes. I never liked mustcube because of the long scrambles.
> 
> David - are you going to develop the site further? Perhaps an image of the scrambled cube? Eventually some statistics e.g. averages?



I'm going to be really busy with work/university this summer but I have a little while before it all starts up so I'm planning on pushing out some updates in the next week. Picture of the cube is a pretty high priority and should be up soon. In the mean time there is a link to an alg.cubing.net with the scramble.


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## dbax0999 (Jun 7, 2014)

Just pushed some pretty cool updates out to http://ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc. Pictures next to scrambles, average move count displayed on user pages, and the inverse scramble will be shown on the results page for closed scrambles.

Thanks to Conrad Rider for making Visual Cube which powers the scramble images.


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## Raviorez (Jun 8, 2014)

*First FMC solve, need tips!!!*

Hello everybody

I just did my first FMC solve:

Scramble: L' D' R' F L B2 R U B' D' L2 B2 L2 F2 D L2 U' D' B2

Solution: 

F D' L' U' L' // (2x2x2) (5/5)
B2 D2 B' F D F' // (2x2x3) (6/11)
R U' B U R B' R' B R' B' R B // (F2L -1) (12/23)
R' B R2 B' R2 B R' B' // (F2L) (8/31)
D2 L D' R2 D L' D' R2 D' // (OLL) (9/40)
R2 D R' D R D R D R' D' R' D2 R' // (PLL) (13/53)

I know it's very bad but I don't know any commutator or FMC technique (just that Petrus is better than CFOP)
And I just know 4LLL..
Do you have tips for me?

Thanks in advance


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## EMI (Jun 8, 2014)

Raviorez said:


> I know it's very bad but I don't know any commutator or FMC technique (just that Petrus is better than CFOP)
> And I just know 4LLL..
> Do you have tips for me?
> 
> Thanks in advance



Well my tip is learn some FMC techniques?


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## Raviorez (Jun 8, 2014)

EMI said:


> Well my tip is learn some FMC techniques?



Such as?


----------



## yoinneroid (Jun 8, 2014)

Raviorez said:


> Such as?



commutator
inverse scramble
premoves
NISS


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## EMI (Jun 8, 2014)

...Petrus, Heise maybe. At least more than just CFOP


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## TheDubDubJr (Jun 13, 2014)

Team FMC with Anonymous Moose :tu



Spoiler



Hello
This is Walkie-Talkie
I am Anonymous Moose!!!!!
7x7 FMC
are you sure you can spell annonymoose? no!
Anonymous moose

11:46

n: U2 R2 D2 B2 F' L2 B' D2 B2 U2 F D' U2 B' F U L2 R2

I: R2 L2 U’ F’ B U2 D F’ U2 B2 D2 B L2 F B2 D2 R2 U2


Pre - D2 U’ // (2/2)

U F’ D // 2x2x3 (3/5)
F L U’ L' // F2L-1 (4/9)
L F’ U’ F U L F // leaving 5-corners (7/16)

2 cancel for 14moves

skeleton - U F’ D F L U’ * F’ U’ F # U L F D2 U’

# = F2 U B U’ F2 U B’ U’ // 3 cancel
* = R2 D’ L2 D R2 D’ L2 D // 0 cancel


U F’ D F L U’ R2 D’ L2 D R2 D’ L2 D F’ U’ F’ U B U’ F2 U B’ L F D2 U’ (27)

If says 26

Other stuff we dinked around with
Pre - D2
U F’ D F L2 
F U’ F’ 

D2 U'
F’ D U’ L’ D’ L D U 
L’ F

inverse - L2 F2 L’



Spoiler



Anonymous


Spoiler



Moose


Spoiler



Is


Spoiler



TeddyKGB


----------



## dbax0999 (Jun 14, 2014)

I've just pushed my FMC website out of 'beta'. This update include a leaderboard displaying the top users and top submissions as well as a few more small additions to give the site a more complete feel. My schedule gets a lot busier starting on Monday so I won't be able to develop this site as much. 

I made an official thread for it in the Competition Forum, check it out here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?48018-Online-Weekly-FMC

Let me know if you have any last suggestions that you'd like to see before my summer work and classes start. 

Cheers,
David


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## 10461394944000 (Jun 16, 2014)

3rd scramble from nottingham summer: L2 F' R' F2 D2 R B2 U' R2 U' F U R U L2 B2 D2 (17f*)

I found a 14 move pseudo-f2l but the LL was bad and I couldn't find anything good after that 

L F D' L R' U D' F U' D' R' D R' *F* //F2L
*F* B2 R' F' R F B' R F' R2 F R2 F' B' D' F D L D' L' //LL

33 moves


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## ardi4nto (Jun 16, 2014)

10461394944000 said:


> 3rd scramble from nottingham summer: L2 F' R' F2 D2 R B2 U' R2 U' F U R U L2 B2 D2 (17f*)
> 
> I found a 14 move pseudo-f2l but the LL was bad and I couldn't find anything good after that
> 
> ...



L2 F' R' F2 D2 R B2 U' R2 U' F U R U L2 B2 D2 (17f*)

L F D' L R' U D' F U' D' R' D R' F //F2L (14/14)
F' D' R' D R F2 (4/18) //leave 2+2 corner cycles and 3 edges

Give it to insertion finder:


```
L F D' L R' U D' F D' [@1] U' R' D R' D' R' D R F2
Insert at @1: R F' R' F R F' R' F R F' R' F
After the 1st insertion: L F D' L R' U D' F D' R F' R' F R F' R' F R F' [@2] R' F U' R' D R' D' R' D R F2
Insert at @2: F R' F' R' F' R' F R F R
Fewest moves: 30. 10 moves cancelled
The final solution: L F D' L R' U D' F D' R F' R' F R F' R2 F' R' F R F2 U' R' D R' D' R' D R F2
```

Any better idea?


----------



## porkynator (Jun 16, 2014)

10461394944000 said:


> 3rd scramble from nottingham summer: L2 F' R' F2 D2 R B2 U' R2 U' F U R U L2 B2 D2 (17f*)
> 
> I found a 14 move pseudo-f2l but the LL was bad and I couldn't find anything good after that
> 
> ...



L F D' L R' U D' F U' D' R' D R' F //F2L (14)
F' R F R' D2 R' D2 R //EO (8-4=4)
F2 U B' L2 B U' F' D2 F' //ZBLL (9)
F //Adjust (1-2=-1)

26 HTM


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## kinch2002 (Jun 16, 2014)

ardi4nto said:


> L2 F' R' F2 D2 R B2 U' R2 U' F U R U L2 B2 D2 (17f*)
> 
> L F D' L R' U D' F U' D' R' D R' F //F2L (14/14)
> F' D' R' D R F2 (4/18) //leave 2+2 corner cycles and 3 edges
> ...


It's all very well plugging it into IF, but are those insertions realistic for a human to find? I don't have a cube right now, but they look complicated. I see that the first is just triple sexy, but would anybody really notice that while inserting?

p.s. I'll post my 24 later (it used the same 2x2x2 of course, just like everybody else's did)


----------



## Evan Liu (Jun 16, 2014)

*[NAR] 31.33 FMC Mean of 3 - Evan Liu*

My solutions for the 31.33 NAR Mean of 3 I got at Nottingham Summer 2014

Scramble #1: B R2 L2 F R' L' U2 B U' D' R D2 L2 U' F2 U' L2 U


Spoiler



2x2x2: B R' U L F L2 F' (7/7)
2x2x3 + Pair: R' B L' D L (5/12)

Switch to inverse with premoves L' D' L B' R F L2 F' L' U' R B'

F2L-1: R2 D R D2 R' *D'* (6/18)
L3C: *D* B R B' R' D' (6-2/22)
Finish: U L2 U' R U L2 U' R' (8/30)

Final Solution: B R' U L F L2 F' R' B L' D L R U L2 U' R' U L2 U' D R B R' B' R D2 R' D' R2 (30)

I found this with <5 minutes left, and couldn't find any cancellations within the remaining time. IF says 27 moves was optimal for my skeleton.


Scramble #2: R B R D L2 U' B U D' L' F' B2 U2 R2 U R2 F2 U2 R2 U'


Spoiler



2x2x2: L' F2 L F' *U'* # *F'* L F (8/8)
2x2x3: U B' U R B' R' B' (7/15)
F2L-1: R2 U2 (2/17)
L4C: B' R' B *R2 U R* * U' (7/24)
Insert at *: *R' U' R* D R' U R D' (8-5/27)
Insert at #: *U'* B U F U' B' U *F'* (8-2/33)

Final Solution: L' F2 L F' U2 B U F U' B' U F2 L F U B' U R B' R' B' R2 U2 B' R' B R' D R' U R D' U' (33)

IF confirms 33 moves was optimal for my skeleton. 


Scramble #3: D2 U2 B' R2 B' U2 B' U2 F' D' B R D' L2 F L' R F' L'


Spoiler



(Premove: F)
2x2x2: L F D' L (4/4)
2x2x3: R' D' F R F (5/9)
F2L-1: D' R2 D' R' D R (6/15)
F2L + EO: D' B R' *B' R* (5/20)
LL: *R' B2* R D2 R D2 R' B2 D' R D' R' D (13-3/30)
Undo Premove: F (1/31)

Final Solution: L F D' L R' D' F R F D' R2 D' R' D R D' B R' B R D2 R D2 R' B2 D' R D' R' D F (31)

I found this within 10 minutes, the first of three 31-move solutions I found. Couldn't improve upon that, unfortunately.


Overall, could've been better in some spots, but I'm still very happy with this as a first successful mean.


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## kinch2002 (Jun 16, 2014)

My *24 mover* (=NR) at Nottingham Summer 2014 on Scramble 3
Scramble: D2 U2 B' R2 B' U2 B' U2 F' D' B R D' L2 F L' R F' L'
Premove: F
2x2x2: L F D' L (4)
2x2x3: R' D' F2 (7 + 1)
F2L (leaving 3 corners): D2 F D2 F' B D R' D' R2 B' D R D' (20 + 1)
Skeleton: L F D' L R' D' F2 * D2 F D2 F' B D R' D' R2 B' D R D' F (21)
Insert [F U2 F', D2] at * to cancel 5 moves

The mean was 26, 29, 24 = 26.33


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## Evan Liu (Jun 17, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> My 24 mover (=NR) at* Oxford Open* on Scramble 3


lol wrong comp 
Awesome solution though, wish I had seen that.


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## kinch2002 (Jun 17, 2014)

Evan Liu said:


> lol wrong comp
> Awesome solution though, wish I had seen that.


Thanks, fixed.
The 'problem' with this scramble was the number of possibilities to investigate after the obvious first block. although I'm slightly surprised everyone came out with different solutions in the end.


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## Julian (Jun 19, 2014)

scramble: F2 L2 D2 R' U2 B2 L' B2 R D2 R2 F L2 R U' L2 D2 U' B L'
inverse: L B' U D2 L2 U R' L2 F' R2 D2 R' B2 L B2 U2 R D2 L2 F2

F2L-1 in 12 on normal:


Spoiler



R L2 B L2 B'
L F L F L D2 F'



Tried stuff on normal and inverse, but couldn't find anything nice 
Anyone have any ideas on a finish/modified start?


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## Brest (Jun 19, 2014)

Julian said:


> scramble: F2 L2 D2 R' U2 B2 L' B2 R D2 R2 F L2 R U' L2 D2 U' B L'
> inverse: L B' U D2 L2 U R' L2 F' R2 D2 R' B2 L B2 U2 R D2 L2 F2
> 
> F2L-1 in 12 on normal:
> ...



x2 F U R U' R' U R U' R' U F' U' // EOLS to Aperm


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## Julian (Jun 21, 2014)

@Rob Very nice, even cancels 3 moves according to IF. Well, now I know that case, haha.

A completed solve this time:
(premove D2) B R D L2 U2 L D' L F U2 L U2 R' B2 R' D2 R' B2 L'

L' F' L2 // square
R D2 // 2x2x2 (find premove)
U2 L F' // square
L2 U' F2 U' . F U L' // F2L-1 + pair in LL
U2 B L' B' L 
B' U B L U L' // L3C

Insert [L', F R' F'] at . cancelling 2 moves.

Final solution (*33*): L' F' L2 R D2 U2 L F' L2 U' F2 U' L' F R' F' L F R U L' U2 B L' B' L B' U B L U L' D2


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## Meneghetti (Jun 24, 2014)

*São Paulo Open 2014*
All my solves from my new SAR average! 38, 29, 30 = 32.33

38


Spoiler



I was running out of time and had no time to look for insertions. Solved last 4 corners in 16 moves without a single cancellation… IF gives 7 cancellations for 31.

Scramble: L2 U L2 D U2 R2 B2 U' B2 D' L' B' L2 F' R F' L' B2 L U2
Solution: L' B' L2 U L2 U2 B2 R2 B2 R D' B' D B D' B D B' D2 B2 D B D F D' B' D F' D' U' B D' B' U B D B' R2

Premove: R2 // corrects pseudoness
L' B' L2 U L2 U2 // 2x2x2
B2 R' // pseudo 2x2x3
R' B2 R // EO
D' B' D B D' B D B' D2 B2 D // AB4C
B D F D' B' D F' D' // corner 3-cycle
U' B D' B' U B D B' // corner 3-cycle
R2 // undo premove



29


Spoiler



Tied my own SAR single  IF gives one more cancellation for 28.

Scramble: R2 B' L2 D2 B' D2 R2 F' L2 F L R2 B2 U R' B' F' D U' F2
Solution: D' F R' D2 F U' F' D2 F U' F' D L' R' D R U' R' D' R L' F' L F B L' B' L U' 

D' F R' // pseudo 2x2x2
F * U2 F' D // 2x2x3 (keyhole)
L' U' ** L' F' L F // F2L-1
B L' B' L U' // AB5C

insert at *: F' D2 F U' F' D2 F U // cancels 3 moves
insert at **: U R' D R U' R' D' R // cancels 2 moves



30


Spoiler



IF says optimal insertion 

Scramble: U2 R F2 R' B2 U2 R F2 L F2 U' B2 U F U' L' F2 L2 U
Solution: U2 D L' U' F D2 L D' B2 D' F' D F2 B' L' B L F' L U' L2 U L' D L U' L2 D' U F 

Premove: F // corrects pseudoness
U2 D L' U' F // pseudo 2x2x2
D2 L D' B2 // 2x2x3
D' F' D F // F2L-1
F B' L' B L F' // two pairs
L U' L D * L' D' U // AB3C
F // undo premove

insert at *: D' L U L' D L U' L' // cancels 4 moves



Results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=533&cat=15&rnd=1


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## kinch2002 (Jun 26, 2014)

Meneghetti said:


> *São Paulo Open 2014*
> All my solves from my new SAR average! 38, 29, 30 = 32.33


Well done! Nice to see insertions being done well, and shame about the lack of time on the first solution. It makes me sad when people don't cancel any moves, so it's good to see a total of 9 moves being cut off (3 moves off the mean)


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## porkynator (Jun 29, 2014)

I've just come up with a way to systematically find a good (blockbuilding) start quickly (if there's any), that probably many good FMCers already use:

*For each corner*, find the 3 matching edges to see if there is a short way to make a square or a 2x2x2 block; if any, take note, but first look at all the other corners and do the same. After that, for each of the nice squares/2x2x2s you've found look if you can make other blocks while building them (this should be easier since you've already looked for possible good starts from other blocks).

Well, nothing revolutionary, but the key idea is that you can see all possible easy 2x2x2s very quickly.
What do you think? Do you already use this strategy?


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## Hypocrism (Jun 29, 2014)

I did my first proper attempt today, and got a 29.

U D L F R' B2 D R2 B R2 B2 U' F2 B2 R2 B2 R2 D' R2 F2

Solution:

R' (premove)
L2 F' L' D' (2x2x2)
U2 (premove)
R U R (block)
F2 R U' (block)
L' (premove)
R2 U R (block)
L D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U2 (insert)
*U'* L U' R2 F R'
(bold:cancellation)

Total: 29

It was actually quite exciting and novel!! I've read FMC stuff before but never tried to perfect a solve. Going to practise for Euros...



porkynator said:


> I've just come up with a way to systematically find a good (blockbuilding) start quickly (if there's any), that probably many good FMCers already use:
> 
> *For each corner*, find the 3 matching edges to see if there is a short way to make a square or a 2x2x2 block; if any, take note, but first look at all the other corners and do the same. After that, for each of the nice squares/2x2x2s you've found look if you can make other blocks while building them (this should be easier since you've already looked for possible good starts from other blocks).
> 
> ...



I did this, and after choosing a good 2x2x2, I also tested out the possible premoves of the side that contained none of the initial 2x2x2's pieces. That got me a nice couple of blocks in few moves.


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## ottozing (Jun 30, 2014)

porkynator said:


> I've just come up with a way to systematically find a good (blockbuilding) start quickly (if there's any), that probably many good FMCers already use:
> 
> *For each corner*, find the 3 matching edges to see if there is a short way to make a square or a 2x2x2 block; if any, take note, but first look at all the other corners and do the same. After that, for each of the nice squares/2x2x2s you've found look if you can make other blocks while building them (this should be easier since you've already looked for possible good starts from other blocks).
> 
> ...



Very nice tip! I'll have to adapt something like this into my future fmc attempts.

What I've always done for fmc (or at least have done for a very long time) is check for every one move pair by doing every slice move once, checking for pairs, and repeating. Something I also like doing is finding all the one move pairs on inverse, and then using the inverse of that move as a premove for the normal scramble if I can't find anything good for it on inverse (and vise versa, if I can't find anything after any of my one move pairs).


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## cmhardw (Jun 30, 2014)

porkynator said:


> I've just come up with a way to systematically find a good (blockbuilding) start quickly (if there's any), that probably many good FMCers already use:
> 
> ... (tips and cool ideas)



That's a neat idea, I never thought to try that. I will certainly give that a shot on my next fewest moves attempt, seems like a great approach!


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## TeddyKGB (Jul 1, 2014)

Hypocrism said:


> I did my first proper attempt today, and got a 29.
> 
> U D L F R' B2 D R2 B R2 B2 U' F2 B2 R2 B2 R2 D' R2 F2



I gave this same scramble a try and this is what happened:

On inverse

Pre move - B2

2x2x1: F D
2nd 2x2x1: R2 B' U
2x2x3: B' L' B
F2L -1: B R2 B' R' 
2 Twisted corners: R' B R B' D' B' D' B D' 

Skeleton on normal scramble: B2 D B' D B D * B R' B' R2 B @ R2 B2 L B U' B R2 D' F'

Insert at *: L B R' B' L' B R B' (6 moves cancel)
Insert at @: B' L B R2 B' L' B R2 (7 moves cancel)

Solution: B2 D B' D B D L B R' B' R2 B R2 B' L' B' L B U' B R2 D' F' - 23 moves


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## Hypocrism (Jul 1, 2014)

TeddyKGB said:


> I gave this same scramble a try and this is what happened:
> 
> On inverse
> 
> ...



Nice one. I haven't looked closely at using inverse scrambles yet, although I understand the process, I've never quite worked out how it can find anything different to the regular scrambled state?


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## Ranzha (Jul 1, 2014)

Hypocrism said:


> Nice one. I haven't looked closely at using inverse scrambles yet, although I understand the process, I've never quite worked out how it can find anything different to the regular scrambled state?



Watch.

Scramble: L' U' L F U' R U R' F'

You might realise that a solution to this scramble is the common OLL algorithm, F R U' R' U' R U R' F' with a U2 at the end.
Solution: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' U2

If you invert this solution and apply the result to a solved cube, you get the same scrambled state as you get with the original scramble sequence.
In the same way, if you invert the scramble sequence and then apply it to the state reached by first applying the inverted solution, you get a solved cube.

If your scramble is A and your solution is B, then (A B) is an identity (naturally), but so are (B A), (A' B'), and (B' A'). Also, (A A'), (B B'), (A' A), and (B' B) are identities.
A functions the same way as B'.
A' functions the same way as B.

But why would you ever invert?
Let's say you wanted to keep your original OLL-based solution as a back-up and wanted to explore the possibilities, so you use the inverse scramble (A') on a solved cube and reach a state.
If A = L' U' L F U' R U R' F',
then A' = F R U' R' U F' L' U L

You may recognise that a solution to this is a different OLL, L' U' L U L F' L' F, with a U at the end. Let's call this C.
Using the same principles as before:
If (A' A) is an identity, and (A' C) is an identity, then C functions the same way as A.
So, if we invert C and get C' = U' F' L F L' U' L' U L, then C' functions the same way as A', or a solution to A.

Thus our shorter solution of U' F' L F L' U' L' U L, which we didn't find when we only applied A, is the inverted solution of the state reached with the inverted scramble.

tl;dr You may solve the inverse scramble a different way than you would solve the scramble. The inverse of a solution to the inverted scramble is a solution to the original scramble.


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## Hypocrism (Jul 1, 2014)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> Watch.
> 
> Scramble: L' U' L F U' R U R' F'
> 
> ...



This I get, but what I don't see is how it helps you to find anything different. Is the point really just to provide a different starting point to find ideas? Because if it is I certainly won't use it-within an hour I don't have near to enough time to explore all the possible blockbuilding starts from just the plain scramble. I don't need any more ideas, I need less!!!

Then again I might be missing something, and I think I need to try it out to see why it's so useful.


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## dbax0999 (Jul 2, 2014)

Thanks to Lars' Roofpig, I was able to easily embed cube animations showing user's solutions for the weekly FMC.

At this time it only support algorithms that produce solved cubes so I can't visualize the scrambles. 

There's also an issue with the color scheme being messed up for solutions with rotations, I have a hack that can fix this but I haven't had time to implement it.


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## Jakube (Jul 2, 2014)

Hypocrism said:


> This I get, but what I don't see is how it helps you to find anything different. Is the point really just to provide a different starting point to find ideas? Because if it is I certainly won't use it-within an hour I don't have near to enough time to explore all the possible blockbuilding starts from just the plain scramble. I don't need any more ideas, I need less!!!
> 
> Then again I might be missing something, and I think I need to try it out to see why it's so useful.



Yes, it's just to give you more possibilities. 

But I don't think, this is a problem. You don't need to explore all starts on one side. Only the promising ones. If the scramble is bad, just try the inverse after a minute. It may be better. 

Notice: The inverse looks similar to the normal. So if there is any 2x2 block on the normal, there will be also a 2x2 block on the inverse, but it may be on a different place with different colors. A lot of people use the inverse scramble not just as a different starting point, but during the hole solve. 
So they build a 2x2x2 with A on the scramble S, then because the continuation sucks, go to the inverse A' S', where they extend it to a 2x2x3 with B, then go back to the normal with the Scramble B' S A, ... This is called NISS.


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## porkynator (Jul 9, 2014)

okayama said:


> My hats off to you, Sébastien. I couldn't choose a proper face mark from the list.   :confused:      :tu   :fp
> 
> Now I update the history for the hardest scramble (list those who wrote down a full solution in this thread).
> Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
> ...



I've tried the hardest scramble today; DNF'd in the first hour, later I've found a 33 HTM solution:


Spoiler



Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

With my NISS notation (moves in brackets are done on inverse scramble)
L' B2 //2 ce pairs (2/2)
(L B R' L' F') //2 squares (5/7)
D U' R + U2 B //2x2x1 + other blocks (5/12)
(D' F' D' F) //Pseudo F2L-1 + pair ready (4/16)
D2 L' U' L U //All but 3 edges and 3 corners (5/21)

Final skeleton and insertions:
L' B2 D U' R + U2 B D2 L' U' L U F' D F D F * L R B' L'
+ = D2 F' D F U2 D2 B' D' B U2 //3e, 3 moves cancel
* = F2 L B L' F2 L B' L' //3c, 3 moves cancel out

Final solution: L' B2 D U' R D2 F' D F U2 D2 B' D' B2 D2 L' U' L U F' D F D F' L B L' F2 L B' R B' L' (33 HTM)

IF cancels one more move, but its first insertion cancels only one move and the second one is inserted inside the first (= I would have never looked for it):
L' B2 D U' R U2 B [@1] D2 L' U' L U F' D F D F L R B' L'
Insert at @1: F2 D B D' F2 D B' D'
After the 1st insertion: L' B2 D U' R U2 B F2 D B D' F2 D [@2] B' D L' U' L U F' D F D F L R B' L'
Insert at @2: D' B2 U' D L2 U
Fewest moves: 32. 3 moves cancelled
The final solution: L' B2 D U' R U2 B F2 D B D' F2 B2 U' D L2 U B' D L' U' L U F' D F D F L R B' L'



I've also looked at other solutions and I've managed to improve Conrad's one to 31 moves:


Spoiler



Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
F R L * B' + U' D' F //Conrad's EO (7/7)
U' R' D2 U L' U2 R' //A more efficient 2x2x3 EO (7/14)
D' L D' L' D L' //All but 2 corners 3-cycles (6/20)
* = L' F L B' L' F' L B //3c (4/24)
+ = R' U L' U' R U L U' //3c (7/31)

Insertions are optimal according to IF 



I'm happy that I've managed to get a decent result, but I kinda feel like I've wasted an afternoon looking for insertions.

EDIT: Today I've tried the Dutch Open 2009 scramble...


guusrs said:


> Hi
> 
> After all the easy scrambles, here is a really hard one!
> It was the scramble of the Dutch Open 2009 FMC competition october 17 2009:
> ...


... and I've got a 25 moves solution in ~35 minutes!


Spoiler



Scramble: R2 D B2 U B2 D B' D' R' U' F' D2 B2 R D L' B' F

Pseudo 2x2x2 + pair: F2 R2 F2 U (4)
On inverse with premoves U' F2 R2 F2, complete 2x2x3: R U' R' B2 R' (5)
I've found this start quite early (5 minutes maybe, but I have also explored a bit another start). Back to normal scramble with premoves R B2 R U R', I changed my first moves to:
F2 R2 U B U' F' L' F' U //F2L in 9+5=14 wow!
Here at first I went for CLL (9 moves) + inserted edges 3 cycle, which was actually just a regular ELL inserted right after the CLL. Then I've found this finish:
R' B' D' B D R
D2 R F D F' D' R' //2 look LL (13)
R B2 R U R' //Undo premoves, 2 moves cancel (3)

Final solution: F2 R2 U B U' F' L' F' U R' B' D' B D R D2 R F D F' D' B2 R U R' (25 HTM)


I think this is one of my best solves ever, I am really proud of it.

EDIT 2: Got sub-30 also on Cielo's Scramble! My 50 minutes solution:


Spoiler



Scramble: L' R2 B2 D2 B2 R' B L' D' U F' L' F2 D' R2 B' U2 R F2 U'

With my NISS notation (moves in brackets are done on inverse scramble):
R' F' D L B' //2x2x1 + pairs (5/5)
(U B2) //Blocks (2/7)
U' R2 //Blocks (2/9)
(F' U2 F) //Blocks (3/12)
(D' F' _R' F2 R2 F2 R2 F2 R'_ D R D') //All but 3 corners (12/24)
The part in italic is actually a edge double 2-cycle, as I've realized later, but I couldn't find anywhere else to insert it.
Skeleton (on normal scramble) and L3C:
R' F' D L B' U' R2 D R' D' R F2 R2 F2 R2 F2 R F D F' U2 F B2 * U'
* = F D' F' U' F D F' U //3c, 3 moves cancel (5/29)

Final solution: R' F' D L B' U' R2 D R' D' R F2 R2 F2 R2 F2 R F D F' U2 F2 B2 D' F' U' F D F' (29 HTM)


Yay!

EDIT 2.5:


Spoiler



IF finishes in 28 moves using my skeleton with the double edges swap left to be inserted:

R' F' D L B' U' R2 D R' D' F [@1] D F' U2 F B2 U'
Insert at @1: B2 U2 D2 F2 U2 D2
After the 1st insertion: R' F' D L B' U' R2 D R' D' F B2 [@2] U2 D2 F2 U2 D' F' U2 F B2 U'
Insert at @2: F' D' B' D F D' B D
After the 2nd insertion: R' F' D L B' U' R2 D R' D' B2 D' [@3] B' D F D' B D' U2 F2 U2 D' F' U2 F B2 U'
Insert at @3: D B2 U D' R2 U'
Fewest moves: 28. 9 moves cancelled
The final solution: R' F' D L B' U' R2 D R' D2 U R2 U' B' D F D' B D' U2 F2 U2 D' F' U2 F B2 U'



EDIT 3: I have found a 30 moves solution for the hardest scramble!


Spoiler



Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
Premoves B' D B, on inverse:
F' D' R L
F R2 D'
B R2 B' D' F R //Pseudo F2L-1 (13/13)
F' U L' U2 L F //Pseudo F2L (6/19)
B U L U' L' B' U F2 //LL + adjust (8/27)
B' D B //Undo premoves (3/30)


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## okayama (Jul 11, 2014)

Really great results for hard scrambles! 
Now your number may be 30 because you got 30 for the hardest scramble.

FYI: Sébastien's results are here:

Cielo's scramble
Dutch Open 2009's scramble
My 1-hour solution for the Dutch Open is here. You're the 1st place for the scramble currently.


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## porkynator (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks! Yes, my number is also 30, for now (maybe I'll try that scramble again).
Thanks also for linking those solutions, they are very interesting. Sébastien got a bit lucky with that insertion on Cielo's scramble, but is blockbuilding is awesome :O


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## Attila (Jul 13, 2014)

My solution for Conrad's scramble ( no time limit):


Spoiler



F2 B U B2 L R' U2 F' U L2 D' F2 L' D2 U2 L B F' D' U' L2 D2 U2 B' L2 25 HTM.

on inverse:
L2 B orient corners,
U2 D2 L2 U2 more 4 edges,
L R' @ F' L2 R2 B D2 more 2 edges,
R B2 L' D L2 F B' U2 L' U' D2 all but 6 centres,
insert at @: M S M' S' 7 moves cancel.
final (inverse) solution:
L2 B U2 D2 L2 U D F B' L' U2 D2 L F2 D L2 U' F U2 R L' B2 U' B' F2


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## Cubenovice (Jul 13, 2014)

Atilla, on Cielo's scramble you can solve the corners in 6 moves and if i remember correctly leave 8 edges in 13 moves.
Perhaps an interesting scramble for you?


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## Renslay (Jul 13, 2014)

I just submitted a solution.

Hm, maybe I'm going into FMC in the future...


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## Attila (Jul 13, 2014)

Cubenovice said:


> Atilla, on Cielo's scramble you can solve the corners in 6 moves and if i remember correctly leave 8 edges in 13 moves.
> Perhaps an interesting scramble for you?



Yes, it's seems interesting, although not too easy.
I found this solution in 90 mins:


Spoiler



premoves: F2 R2 U'
F' B' D2 R' L' all corners and 2 edges( + 2 pseudo edges on UL UR places)
U2 B' U2 D2 F more 2 pseudo edges,
U' R2 D makes pseudoness,
F2 L' B2 D' U R2 B
L2 U' L2 D2 LSE.


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## kinch2002 (Jul 16, 2014)

Welcome to Cambridge: D2 L2 D L2 B2 U F' U' F' L F' R U2 R2 F2 L F2 B2 R2

*26 moves:* D2 F2 L F' D F' R F D F D2 L D' L' F' D2 B2 U B U2 B D2 B' U2 B D2

Square: D2 L
Add premoves to make that a 2x2x2 block
So, normal scramble with premoves B2 U B2
The luck starts here
2x2x3: D2 F2 L F' (7)
F2L-1: D F' R F (11)
F2L: D F D F' (15)
Leave 3 corners: F D L D' L' F' D2 (19)
Skeleton: D2 F2 L F' D F' R F D F D2 L D' L' F' D2 B2 U B2 (19)
The luck ran out. Insertion only cancelled one move in a few places

Lucky


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## porkynator (Jul 17, 2014)

Hi fellow FMCers, I have started a website dedicated to FMC: http://fmcsolves.altervista.org/
Thread on his forum


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 17, 2014)

porkynator said:


> Hi fellow FMCers, I have started a website dedicated to FMC: http://fmcsolves.altervista.org/
> Thread on his forum



This reminds me of another FMC database issue. Per Fredlund was hosting a weekly FMC contest, and one could look at all the past solutions. But now that the contest is no longer running, there seems to be no way to view the database of past results. Does this database still exist? Is there any way to access it? Could it be made available as some sort of data file? I think there would be several solves from that database that would good to include on porkynator's site.


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## TheDubDubJr (Jul 18, 2014)

So interesting situation that happened.

Jay McNeill, Ryan DeLine and I did a skype group FMC attempt (separate) with this scramble.

Scramble - B2 L2 B2 L' B2 L F2 D2 R2 D L2 D' B2 R2 B2 F' L2 R2

Jay and I ended up with 28s.

I did 
n: R2 L F2 U2 B' U2 B2 R2 F U2 
switch
i: F' R2 F' R' D R' D' R' D R D' R2

so my skeleton was 
R2 L F2 U2 B' U2 B2 R2 F U2 R2 D R' D' R D R D' R F R2 F

After the hour was up we showed each other our attempts and Jay had an alternative skeleton like this.
R2 L B2 D2 B' D2 F2 R2 F U2 R2 D R' D' R D R D' R F R2 F 

I quickly looked at both skeletons and thought they were exactly the same.
I looked at IF afterwards and saw my skeleton gave a 28 optimal (which is what I ended up with).
I remember Jay saying he found a 22 to 3corners that IF said 27 was optimal.

After figuring out that 
R2 L *F2 U2 B' U2 B2* R2 F U2 R2 D R' D' R D R D' R F R2 F
R2 L *B2 D2 B' D2 F2* R2 F U2 R2 D R' D' R D R D' R F R2 F 
are different, *BUT* do exactly the same thing.
But the second one yields better insertions. 

I just thought this was a very interesting situation and could be used to find better insertions.



Spoiler: Anonymous Moose



Like at Michigan, got a DNF


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## porkynator (Jul 18, 2014)

Interesting situation, I've never heard of something like this before.
It took me quite a while to realize that, since those sequences of moves both leave the S-slice as it was:

F2 U2 B' U2 B2 = S2 (F2 U2 B' U2 B2) S2 = B2 D2 B' D2 F2

Cool, isn't it?
But I think situations like this are so rare that it's kinda useless to learn how to recognize and exploit them.

My attempt with that scramble:


Spoiler



Scramble: B2 L2 B2 L' B2 L F2 D2 R2 D L2 D' B2 R2 B2 F' L2 R2
Solution: R2 L2 F' U' R2 U L' D2 L D2 L' D L D' F2 U' L2 D L2 D' B2 R2 D' R2 B2 L2 B2 (27 HTM)

Premove: B2
R2 L2 F' //EO (3/3)
U' R2 U //BLocks (3/6)
L' D2 L D2 L' D L //Domino Reduction (7/13)
D' F2 L2 //More Blocks (3/16)
L2 U' L2 D L2 D' * L2 U //Pairs Commutator, 2 moves cancel (6/22)
B2 //Undo Premove (1/23)

At this point I began looking for places to insert those nasty edges cycles like R2 B2 L2 U L2 B2 R2 D; the best I could find was a 2-moves cancellation for a 29 total. With some hint from IF (I've looked at where to insert the cycle):

* = B2 R2 D' R2 B2 L2 U' L2 //Edges 3-cycle, 4 moves cancel (4/27)


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## TheDubDubJr (Jul 18, 2014)

porkynator said:


> Interesting situation, I've never heard of something like this before.
> It took me quite a while to realize that, since those sequences of moves both leave the S-slice as it was:
> 
> F2 U2 B' U2 B2 = S2 (F2 U2 B' U2 B2) S2 = B2 D2 B' D2 F2
> ...



Yea, I figured that these situations would rarely come up and sometimes wouldn't even give better insertions.


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## porkynator (Jul 18, 2014)

I've just realized I have badly blundered during my official Mo3, last solve.
(My NISS notation, moves in brackets go on inverse scramble)

Scramble: F2 R2 D F2 L2 D2 F2 D' R' B' D2 B' L B2 R2 U2 B' F L

What I've done:
L R2 U2 //Pseudo 3x2x1 (3/3)
(R2 L2) //3x2x1 (2/5)
(F L F2 R' F B') //Pseudo 2x2x3 + 3 pairs (6/11)
F //Adjust pseudoness (1/12)
R' B' R D2
B2 D' B' D R D R' //Crap (11/23)
R B2 R' B' R B2 L' B R' B' L //More Crap (9/32)

What I should have done
L R2 U2 //Pseudo 3x2x1 (3/3)
(R2 L2) //3x2x1 (2/5)
(F L F2 R' F B') //Pseudo 2x2x3 + 3 pairs (6/11)
F //Adjust pseudoness (1/12)
R' B' R D2
B2 D' B' L' B' L'
L B D' B' D' B D B' L' D' //Not Crap, 4 moves cancel (16/28)

I could have a 27.00 official Mo3 now; I would still be 4th in the world, but...

BJ


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## kinch2002 (Jul 19, 2014)

The hardest scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
*28 moves* by Robert Yau and myself
I found the 2x2x3, he found the rest of the skeleton


Spoiler



Premove D (to help with the end of F2L after 2x2x3)
Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
2x2x3: R' F2 U R2 F L2 D2 L U' D B' (11) This is based on the 2x2x2 R' F2 U R2 F L' U', with some extra moves to get 2x2x3 and to help with the continuation.
F2L-1 + EO: D' F L F' D' L' D'
F2L leaving 3 corners: L B' L2 B
Skeleton: R' F2 U R2 F L2 * D2 L U' D B' D' F L F' D' L' D' L B' L2 B D (23)
Insert L2 D' R' D L2 D' R D at * to cancel 3 moves


I think this is the best anyone's done on it?


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## porkynator (Jul 19, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> The hardest scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
> *28 moves* by Robert Yau and myself
> I found the 2x2x3, he found the rest of the skeleton
> 
> ...



Great solve! But Attila has recently found a 25 HTM solution.


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 20, 2014)

I thought I might as well post my winning set of ("human") solutions for Tom Rokicki's 4x4x4 Fewest Moves Challenge contest here, although I already posted in Tom's thread.


```
Scramble 1:

U L F D B2 F2 U2 R' F2 R2 B2 D2 R' D2 L B R D' U' R2 L' F L2 D F2 Uw2 B Uw2 F' R' Fw2 F' Rw2 R' B' R2 Fw2 L' Uw L2 D' B2 U Rw' Fw Uw' F' Uw' U' R B R U

First center: Uw2 F' Rw R' Fw' (5)
2nd center: F' Uw' L' Fw' R2 Fw (11)
3rd center: F Uw' R' Uw' (15)
4th center: Fw2 R2 Fw2 (18)
Finish centers: F2 Uw L Uw' (22)
2 dedges already paired
3rd - 9th dedges: B' (R' U' R) Dw (L U' L') (R' U2 R) (R' D' R) (L D2 L') Dw' (40 - 2 = 38)
10th - 12th dedges: F Dw2 R' D R Dw2 y (44)

3x3x3 phase (explained in terms of 3x3x3)
2x2x1: F' U'  (2)
2x2x2: . R D * R (5)
Insert at ".": D (6)
2x2x3: L B L B' (10)
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: L' F L F2 (14)
Use premove F' to correct for pseudo F2L minus 1 slot.
Tripod: L2 U L U' L2 (19)
All but 2 corners, 2 edges: U L' U' L (23)
Premove correction: F' (24)
Insert cyclic-shifted J-perm to solve final 4 pieces.
Insert at "*": D L' D' L2 B2 R' U' R B2 L' (34-3 = 31)

OBTM: 44 + 31 = 75
BTM: 42 + 30 = 72

Solution:
Uw2 F' 2R Fw' F' Uw'
L' Fw' R2 Fw F Uw' R' Uw'
Fw2 R2 2F2 Uw L Uw'
B' R' U' R Dw L U' L' R' U2 D' R L D2 L' Dw'
F Dw2 R' D R Dw2 y
F' E' y' R D2 L' D' L2 B2 R' U' R B2
R B L B' L' F L F2
L2 U L U' L2 U L' U' L F'



Scramble 2:

F U R U B' D R U2 R B U2 L D' F' U2 L R B2 D2 R D2 R' B2 Uw2 Rw2 R' D L D2 L2 R Fw2 U L2 B' U Fw' L D2 F2 Rw' Fw2 Rw' Uw' Fw2 Rw D' F U F D

First 2 centers: R L D Fw' D F Uw Rw' D' L' R2 Fw' (12)
3rd-4th centers: F Uw' F R Uw B2 R Uw (20)
Finish centers: R2 Fw2 L2 Fw2 (24)
2 dedges already paired
3rd-6th dedges: Dw' (L U2 L') (L D L') Dw (32-2 = 30)
6th-12 dedges: R2 F R Bw' (D F' D') (R' B2 R) (R' U F' R U') Bw x' y' (46-2 = 44)

3x3x3 phase:

Premoves: D' R' (2)
2x2x2: L' D R U' (6)
2x2x3: D' . B2 D B2 L B * L' D2 (14)
C-E pair extension: D' B D (17-1 = 16)
F2L minus 1 slot: D L2 D' (19-1 = 18)
Tripod: B (19)
Edges: L U' L' U (23)
Premove correction: D' R' (moves already counted)
This leaves 4 corners, solved by two insertions.
Insert at ".": D F' D' B2 D F D' B2 (31-6 = 25)
Insert at "*": F' R' F L' F' R F L (33-2 = 31)

OBTM: 44+31 = 75
BTM: 43+29 = 72

Solution:
R L D Fw' D F Uw Rw' D' L' R2 2F' Uw' F R Uw B2 R Uw R2 Fw2 L2 Fw2
Dw' L U2 D L' Dw R2 F R Bw' D F' D' R' B2 U F' R U' Bw x' y'
L' D R U' F' D' B2 D F B2 L S z' R' F L' F' R F D B D2 L2 D' B
L U' L' E y R'



Scramble 3:

F D B D L' U2 F U2 D' B2 F L B F U2 L' F2 R' U2 F2 L B2 R2 B2 Fw2 Uw2 D' B F' Uw2 B R2 Fw2 Uw2 D' U2 Rw U L B U2 Uw' F' Rw2 R2 Fw F2 Uw' B' L B U L

First 2 centers: R' L' Dw' B2 Lw' F' Dw' L' Dw2 B2 Dw (11)
3rd center: D' Lw F' U B2 Rw (17)
4th center: F Rw' F2 Rw (21)
Finish centers: Uw2 F2 Uw2 (24)
3 dedges already paired
4th-9th dedges: F' (U R') (R' U R) Dw (D' R D) (R' F D' F') (F U' F') Dw' (42-3 = 39)
10th-12th dedges: D Lw' L D L' D' Lw (46)

3x3x3 phase:

1x2x3: F' D R' D' U R' F . (7)
2x2x3: R L2 F R2 (11)
Edges: L2 B2 D' * B D L B2 L' B (20)
A 5-cycle of corners remains.
Insert at ".": F' R' B' R F R' B R  (28-4 = 24)
Insert at "*": R2 B L' B' R2 B L B' (32-2 = 30)

OBTM: 46+30 = 76
BTM: 42+27 = 69

Solution:
R' L' Dw' B2 Lw' F' Dw' L' Dw2 B2 2D Lw F' U B2 Rw F Rw' F2 Rw Uw2 F2 Uw2
F' U R2 U R 2D R D R' F D' U' F' 2D' 2L' D L' D' Lw
F' D R' E y R2 B' R F R' B M2 x2 F M2 x2 B2 D' R2 B L' B' R2 B L D L B2 L' B



Scramble 4:

R F D L D2 F D U B2 F2 L' B2 U F2 L D2 U2 L U2 R B2 L B2 Uw2 Rw2 F U2 R' B' Uw2 F2 R Uw2 F' Uw' L2 D2 L B2 R' Uw' D2 Fw' Rw R Uw' L2 B D F D

Full solution:
First center: D' Rw Bw (3)
2nd center (adj.): F' U Rw2 B' Rw' (8)
3rd center: R Fw Dw' F2 Dw Fw' (14)
Finish centers: Fw D' R' Fw D U2 Bw2 (21-2 = 19)
2 dedges already paired
3rd - 4th dedges: Bw2 R' B2 R Bw2  (24-2 = 22)
5th - 10th dedges: D' F (F L F') Rw' (F' R F) (F' L F) (U R2 U') Rw (38-3 = 35)
11th - 12th dedges: D' R' Dw' R' B U' R B' Dw y' (44)

Solving inverse for 3x3x3 phase.

2x2x2: D F' R2 B'  (4)
2x2x3: R U2 R2     (7)
F2L - 1: F U F2   (10)
Edges: L' U' B' U2 B2 . L' B' L2  (18)
Insert at ".": F' L' B' L F L' B L (18+8-5 = 21)
Insert at end: L' B L F' L' B' L F (21+8-2 = 27)
Use inverse as solution to 3x3x3 phase.

OBTM: 44+27 = 71
BTM: 41+26 = 67

Solution:
D' Rw 2F z' U Rw2 B' 2R' Fw Dw' F2 2D R' Fw D U2
R' B2 R Bw2 D' F2 L F' Rw' F' R L F U R2 U' Rw D' R' Dw' R' B U' R B' Dw y'
L2 B L B2 U2 B U L F2 U' L F' R2 F L' F' U2 R' B2 L' B' R2 B L S' z D'



Scramble 5:

F U F U F2 R2 D' R2 B2 D B2 D2 B2 R2 U' F R F' B' D' R2 D' L' Uw2 F' Uw2 U2 Rw2 Fw2 B D F' B D' L2 B2 Rw' Fw2 R' U B U' Rw' Uw R' Fw B U L D R

First 2 centers: F' D2 L B' U Uw Lw Fw' L2 Fw' (10)
Paired center pieces: B' F' U Rw (14)
Finish centers: F D2 Rw' D2 Rw2 (19)
4 dedges already paired
5th-7th dedges: U2 Rw2 (F' R F) (U R' U') Rw2 (28)
8th-12th dedges: B' L' Dw (R' U2 R) (R U' R') Dw' x' y2 (38-1 = 37)

3x3x3 phase:
2x2x2: R B' D2 F2 (4)
Siamese 2x2x2's: D' B2 L2 D2 B L B' (11)
F2L minus 1 slot: D' L' F L F' (16)
All but 2 corners, 2 edges: R D' R' . B' D2 B (22)
Insert at ".": R D2 R' D' R D2 L' D R' D' L (33-3 = 30)
(sub-optimal J-perm)

OBTM: 37+30=67
BTM: 37+30=67

Solution:
F' D2 L B' U Uw Lw Fw' L2 Fw' B' F' U Rw F D2 Rw' D2 Rw2
U2 Rw2 F' R F U R' U' Rw2 B' L' Dw R' U2 R2 U' R' Dw' x' y2
R B' D2 F2 D' B2 L2 D2 B L B' D' L' F L F'
R D R' D' R D2 L' D R' D' L B' D2 B
```


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## irontwig (Jul 20, 2014)

How about trying insertions at the dedge pairing step? My (time consuming) idea for 4x4 FMC that I didn't bother to implement was to reduce into a 3x3, find a short edge solution (e.g. with a EO first approach) and then solve the corners with insertions, as the skeleton would be quite a bit longer than a 3x3 one which might result in nicer insertions (i.e. more cancellations).


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 21, 2014)

irontwig said:


> How about trying insertions at the dedge pairing step? My (time consuming) idea for 4x4 FMC that I didn't bother to implement was to reduce into a 3x3, find a short edge solution (e.g. with a EO first approach) and then solve the corners with insertions, as the skeleton would be quite a bit longer than a 3x3 one which might result in nicer insertions (i.e. more cancellations).



You're right. There's no need to limit corner insertions to the 3x3x3 phase. And the R U R' type of maneuvering common during dedge pairing could provide some very high cancellations.

And I note time was not really an issue in Tom's competition.


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## TheDubDubJr (Jul 21, 2014)

FMC NAR 23 Single - Walker Welch
Done @ Dixon Summer 2014

scramble - F' R2 F2 B R' U L F' R U2 R' B2 D2 L' F2 B2 L' B2
inverse - B2 L B2 F2 L D2 B2 R U2 R' F L' U' R B' F2 R2 F

inverse 2x2x2 - B U' R2 L B2

switch to normal
Premoves (D B2 L' R2 U B')

D2 R2 D2 // 2x2x3 
D' F D R F' R F2 R' F' // 17 to 3corners

D2 R2 D F D R F' R + F2 R' F' D B2 L' R2 U B'
+ = R' U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2 // 2 moves cancel 

Solution - D2 R2 D F D R F' U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2 F2 R' F' D B2 L' R2 U B' (23)


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## uesyuu (Jul 21, 2014)

Finally, I got 19 moves solution! (within about 1 hour)
Very easy scramble, though.

Scramble: F2 D2 U2 R2 F U2 B' R2 B' D2 L2 D U2 B2 R' B' D L D R'

Solution:
(normal) 222: R D’ L’
NISS
(inverse) premove: R’ D
223: done
F2L: D2 B’ R D2 R’
LL: L B L' B L B2 L'
B D'

Final solution: R D’ L’ D’ R D B’ L B2 L’ B’ L B’ L’ R D2 R’ B D2 (19moves)

Edit:
Oh, I overlooked Sune 1 move cancel.
The moves of this solution could be 18.

(normal) 222: R D’ L’
NISS
(inverse) premove: R’ D
223: done
F2L: D2 B’ R D2 R’
LL: B D B D' B D B2 D2

Final solution: R D' L' D' R D2 B2 D' B' D B' D' B' R D2 R' B D2 (18moves)


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## goodatthis (Jul 21, 2014)

Can someone help me with insertions for this solution:

Originally I had this:

Scramble: U L2 F2 U B2 U R2 U' F2 D' R2 F' L' F2 U B U B' R2 D F'


L' D L U F U' F2 L2 F U' R U // most of 2x2x3
R U R B U2 B2 // F2L-1
U B U B' U B U' B' U B U' B' // To L3C <---- in this step if I had put the 2x2x1 in the UFL position by doing a U2 right after building, I would have had a L4C case with one twisted corner, so I opted to go past that and go for L3C.
U B2 D B' U2 B D' B' U2 B' // L3C (luckily it was just an OCLL, but a comm nonetheless)

L' D L U F U' F2 L2 F U' R U // most of 2x2x3
R U R B U2 B2 // F2L-1
U B U2 B' // to L4C

This is the skeleton to L4C, can someone show me how to insert 2 comms into this? I have tried, but I still just don't understand how to physically see how to cycle the pieces at different points throughout the solve. 

Thanks for your help.


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## Renslay (Jul 21, 2014)

goodatthis said:


> Can someone help me with insertions for this solution:
> 
> Originally I had this:
> 
> ...



First:
L' D L U F U' F2 L2 F U' R U R U R B U2 B2 U B U B' U B U' B' [1] U B U' B' U
[1] = L U' R2 U L' U' R2 U
1 move cancelled. (38 moves total)

Second:
L' D L U F U' F2 L2 F [1] U' R U R [2] U R B U2 B2 U B U2 B'
[1] = L2 U' R U L2 U' R' U
[2] = F' D F U' F' D' F U
7 moves cancelled. (31 moves total)


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## EMI (Jul 21, 2014)

goodatthis said:


> This is the skeleton to L4C, can someone show me how to insert 2 comms into this? I have tried, but I still just don't understand how to physically see how to cycle the pieces at different points throughout the solve.
> 
> Thanks for your help.



If you don't know it yet, this tool finds optimal insertions for you.
If you want to find insertions yourself, I recommend little paper stickers that you glue on the cycling stickers (and write numbers on) to keep track of the pieces. I wouldn't use my main cube for that though, as you might peel your stickers when you remove the paper stickers afterwards.  So in your case, for the first insertion put stickers on all four corners (any sticker) and mark the twisted one - there are many choices for a commutator here. Then you might have to remove the marks and use new ones on different stickers to find your second insertion.


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## porkynator (Jul 22, 2014)

I thought I might post here as well this corners first solve. I tried this method a few times, but this is the first "good" solve I get.

Scramble (from the Example Solve Game thread): D2 L' B2 R' F2 L2 U2 L2 R' B2 D F U' L B' U' F' U2 B2 F


porkynator said:


> D F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 U2 F' L' D R D' F2 B2 U L' B' F L2 B2 F2 R2 B' L U D' B' R (30 HTM)
> 
> D F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 U2 F' L' D //All corners and 3 edges (12)
> R D' F2 B2 U L' //3 more edges (6)
> ...



First, I tried an orient first approach: F' U' R orients corners in only 3 moves, but I couldn't find a good continuation for solving corners.
So I decided to solve corners as I would solve a 2x2x2: U2 F' L' D for the first layer, the I inserted that 8-move commutator at the beginning instead of using a 9 mover. I thought I could insert it later in the solve once I had finished everything else.
So now I have corners and 3 edges.
The rest is pretty straight-forward, with some luck in the last step.
Removing the commutator at the beginning gives a 22 moves skeleton, but sadly insertion finder says that the optimal insertions doesn't cancel any move


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## Sebastien (Jul 22, 2014)

I have an interesting scramble to share. It is the 2nd scramble of the current German forum competition. I can't remember having more blocks on a scramble so far.

The scramble: D R' B2 U F U R2 D2 L D2 B U2 F2 U2 R2 F2 U2

My solutions:



Spoiler



1-hour:

F2L-1: F2 U F' B' R D L' D2 R2 U2 R2
L3C: D' B D2 B' D L' F' D' * F L D2

* = D F' U' F D' F' U F

Solution: F2 U F' B' R D L' D2 R2 U2 R2 D' B D2 B' D L' F2 U' F D' F' U F2 L D2

26 moves.

no limit:

Premove: L2
2x2x3: F2 U F' B' R' U2 R2
F2L-1: D2 L' D' L
Domino: F' D' F'
Rest: D' F2 D' F2 D2 F2 D

Solution: F2 U F' B' R' U2 R2 D2 L' D' L F' D' F' D' F2 D' F2 D2 F2 D L2

22 moves.


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## Attila (Jul 24, 2014)

porkynator said:


> I thought I might post here as well this corners first solve. I tried this method a few times, but this is the first "good" solve I get.
> 
> Scramble (from the Example Solve Game thread): D2 L' B2 R' F2 L2 U2 L2 R' B2 D F U' L B' U' F' U2 B2 F
> 
> ...



I waited many years, for someone else to try CF method, but it is very rare.
I am so happy, see yours excellent solution.
I hope you do many more attempts...


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## porkynator (Jul 24, 2014)

Attila said:


> I waited many years, for someone else to try CF method, but it is very rare.
> I am so happy, see yours excellent solution.
> I hope you do many more attempts...



Thanks 
I will try this method again for sure, but I don't think I will use it in one-hour FMC competitions; I'm not so good yet.
But it's very fun to use your method, it's so different from all other popular ones.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jul 24, 2014)

porkynator said:


> D2 L' B2 R' F2 L2 U2 L2 R' B2 D F U' L B' U' F' U2 B2 F
> 
> D F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 U2 F' L' D //All corners and 3 edges (12)
> R D' F2 B2 U L' //3 more edges (6)
> ...



Didn't you miss a trick? Didn't check to see if this could be done further. Pretty cool though, seems like a fun method that I would have no chance of getting good solutions with.


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## goodatthis (Jul 25, 2014)

U2 R B2 F R' B2 D' R' L B' U2 L' R' D2 B2 F U' F2 R B2 R' B2 U' L R' 

D2 F R2 U R' U' // 2x2x3
switch to inverse
R B' D2 B // add square
D R' D' R' F' R' F D R' D' R' F' R' F // sucky tripod 
D R' B R B2 D B //L3C

Too tired to physically find an insertion right now, but optimal only cancels one move .
Great start, poor continuation. And also my first solve using NISS!


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## porkynator (Jul 25, 2014)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> Didn't you miss a trick? Didn't check to see if this could be done further. Pretty cool though, seems like a fun method that I would have no chance of getting good solutions with.



Uhm yeah, I didn't notice

EDIT:
Tried another hard scramble (okayama's list), I've sub-30'd this too 

Scramble: U' F' U2 B' L D' U F2 L2 B' U2 F2 B2 R U' B L U F' B' D U B R' B2 F R2 D2 L R2


Spoiler



Solution: F' U' L' F L B' L' F' L' U' B' R' F' D R2 L D' L' U B2 U' F' U B2 U' D2 F2

F' U' * B' L2 U' B' //2x2x2 (6/6)
R' F' D R2 //2x2x3, R' orients 4 edges (4/10)
L D' L' //EO (3/13)
+ F' D2 F2 //All but 5 corners (3/16)

* = L' F L B' L' F' L B //3c (5/21)
+ = U B2 U' F' U B2 U' F //3c (6/27)


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## G2013 (Jul 25, 2014)

Well, this is in topic, so I'll ask you:
What online website do you use (if you use one) to compete on FMC online?
I know http://fmc.mustcube.net/ and http://rubikfm.es but they doesn't work for me, Google Chrome says "The webpage is not available".
What do I do then?


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## porkynator (Jul 25, 2014)

G2013 said:


> Well, this is in topic, so I'll ask you:
> What online website do you use (if you use one) to compete on FMC online?
> I know http://fmc.mustcube.net/ and http://rubikfm.es but they doesn't work for me, Google Chrome says "The webpage is not available".
> What do I do then?



This: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/


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## G2013 (Jul 25, 2014)

Thanks!
...
How can I edit the wiki? Because that link is not in the FMC article...


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## Bubtore (Jul 25, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> I have an interesting scramble to share. It is the 2nd scramble of the current German forum competition. I can't remember having more blocks on a scramble so far.
> 
> The scramble: D R' B2 U F U R2 D2 L D2 B U2 F2 U2 R2 F2 U2



The solution I've found :

F2L-1 // F2 U F' U B U' B2 # R' L2 U2 L' R2
Pseudo Tripod // D B D' B'
L3C // L2 F L F' L

# B L2 B' R' B L2 B' R

Solution // F2 U F' U B U' B' L2 B' R' B L2 B' L2 U2 R2 L' D B D' B' L2 F L F' L - 26 Moves

and Laura's cool finish after my F2L-1 :
L' D L D2 B D R D' R' D' B' D2

Thus giving a deservedly short solution :
F2 U F' U B U' B2 R' L2 U2 R2 L2 D L D2 B D R D' R' D' B' D2 (23 HTM)


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## G2013 (Jul 26, 2014)

porkynator said:


> This: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/



Is there something like this but with daily challenges instead of weekly ones?


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## porkynator (Jul 27, 2014)

I don't think so, but a new round will start in a few (7-8?) hours.


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## jpbrc (Jul 29, 2014)

My 25 moves solution from "Brasileiro Etapa de Inverno". New SAR  

*Scramble:* L' U2 D' L' U2 B' D B' L U2 F2 R2 F' R2 L2 F' U2 D2 F 
*Solution:* F D' L' U' R' U L U' R2 D' R' U' R F' L2 F2 D F2 B' D B F' D' F' L2 *(25)*

Pre-move: L2

F D' # U2 * R // EO
D' F' L2 // 2x2x2
F2 D F2 // Pseudo F2L-2
B' D B // F2L-1
F' D' F' // AB4C

* U R D' R' U' R D R' // 5 Cancellations
# L' U' R' U L U' R U // 3 Cancellations

Optimal insertions


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## G2013 (Jul 29, 2014)

Wow!! Congratulations!

How would you (plural) solve the case when you have F2L-1, all edges oriented, and all edges in place *but* UR and UL, that are switched?
Because it appears a lot in my solves.
I solve by doing a U or U' turn and sune, or by avoiding that case by modifying my previous moves.
Is there a better way?


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## Jimmy Liu (Jul 29, 2014)

jpbrc said:


> My 25 moves solution from "Brasileiro Etapa de Inverno". New SAR
> 
> *Scramble:* L' U2 D' L' U2 B' D B' L U2 F2 R2 F' R2 L2 F' U2 D2 F
> *Solution:* F D' L' U' R' U L U' R2 D' R' U' R F' L2 F2 D F2 B' D B F' D' F' L2 *(25)*
> ...



That was quite impressive, thanks for sharing you solution and congratulations!


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## porkynator (Jul 29, 2014)

Anyone wants to try this scramble? I've found a quite lucky 27 HTM solution (23 skeleton + 4 for 3 corners) and interesting 12 HTM F2L-1, but no good continuation for that.

Scramble: U F2 R2 B2 F2 D' L2 U L2 B2 U2 R D2 U R' L D B' D' B' F U


Spoiler



My Final Solution: U F' B U' F U' F' R' F2 L B2 L2 F2 L2 R2 D F2 D' B' D F2 B D2 R D R L2

U F'
B U' F U'
F' R' F2 //Stuff (9/9)
L B2 L2 F2 //??? (4/13)
L2 //!!! (1/14)
R2 * B' D B D2 R D R L2 //All but 3 corners (9/23)

* = D F2 D' B' D F2 D' B //3c (4/27)

F2L-1 in 12 (my NISS notation, moves in brackets are done on inverse scramble):
B U2
(F U R2 U')
(B2 D' R' D')
D B

Other interesting stuff I've found:

Nice 2x2x3: U' F' U R' {D'} U2 R' {D} L
Moves in {} can be replaced with D2 to get an XXcross.
I've also played around a bit with the non-obvious start U' F' U

Backup skeleton, all but 3 corners in 24: U' F' U2 L U2 L' U' R' / U2 L2 U L2 B L B' / U B U' B' U B U' B' U

All but 3 corners and 3 edges in 18:
Premove F'
B U2
R B' D2 R2 D'
D B' D2 R D R2 B'
R B' R' B
R F'
First 2 moves lead to some quite good continuations (D2 R2 D' L B L' or D' F' R' B' F R' L' D' R' L for example).


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## guysensei1 (Jul 29, 2014)

porkynator said:


> Scramble: U F2 R2 B2 F2 D' L2 U L2 B2 U2 R D2 U R' L D B' D' B' F U



This FMC thing really is addictive...

I'll give it a go but I'm not fantastic.

F R2 L F' D' F'//2x2x2 (6)
L U' L' D B' D' B//2x2x3 (7)
(switch to inverse)
R' B U B' U2 R//block

I can't go on from here  Completely stuck.

EDIT:
I shall post another attempt here for critique
Scramble: U B2 R2 U L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 R2 U' F' U F2 L U F' L B2 U
On inverse with premove B2 L2,
U' F U2 F L2 F' L2//2x2x2 (7)
F U' L F' L'//2x2x3 (5)
R' U R' U2 R2//f2l3

Back to normal scramble:
Aaaand I have no idea how to revert back to the normal scramble. Dang. Help?


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## G2013 (Jul 29, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> EDIT:
> I shall post another attempt here for critique
> Scramble: U B2 R2 U L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 R2 U' F' U F2 L U F' L B2 U
> On inverse with premove B2 L2,
> ...



Scramble: *U B2 R2 U L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 R2 U' F' U F2 L U F' L B2 U*

First stuff on normal (premoves on normal are stuff done in inverse mode and premoves on inverse are stuff done in normal mode) L2 B2, add it at the right of the scramble
*U B2 R2 U L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 R2 U' F' U F2 L U F' L B2 U* _L2 B2_
Then perform all that "new scramble" backwards.
_B2 L2_ *U' B2 L' F U' L' F2 U' F U R2 L2 U2 L2 B2 L2 U' R2 B2 U'*
Now second stuff on inverse:
U' F U2 F L2 F' L2 F U' L F' L' R' U R' U2 R2
To get back to normal scramble, put *all* that at the right of the whole thing that you just did backwards to switch to inverse, like this:
B2 L2 *U' B2 L' F U' L' F2 U' F U R2 L2 U2 L2 B2 L2 U' R2 B2 U'* _U' F U2 F L2 F' L2 F U' L F' L' R' U R' U2 R2_
*Aaand* perform that backwards and you now are on the normal... Do this every time you want to switch from one mode to the other.
Then, at the end, you write all the thing that is on the right of the scramble, then write the thing that is on the left of the scramble like it is, *without reversing it* (like correcting premoves) and reverse the whole solve if you finished in inverse mode.[/B]

...

It is like this:
Scramble: *F U R*
Stuff on normal: R'

Switch to inverse:
*F U R* _R'_ performed backwards, R *R' U' F'*

Then stuff on inverse: F U

Switch back to normal:
R *R' U' F'* _F U_ performed backwards, U' F' *F U R *R'

Then your full solve will be R' U' F'.

Hope you understand it  (And hope that all that thing that I wrote is correct xD)


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## wontolla (Jul 29, 2014)

Newbie question:

Recently in a competition I heard someone say: Using the inverse of the scramble is not allowed because of the rule: "E2e) The competitor's solution must not be directly derived from any part of the scrambling algorithm. Penalty: disqualification of the attempt (DNF)."

For starters, I don't really understand the rule, nor its relevance with using the inverse.

Is it then true we cannot use the inverse in a competition?


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## dbax0999 (Jul 29, 2014)

wontolla said:


> Newbie question:
> 
> Recently in a competition I heard someone say: Using the inverse of the scramble is not allowed because of the rule: "E2e) The competitor's solution must not be directly derived from any part of the scrambling algorithm. Penalty: disqualification of the attempt (DNF)."
> 
> ...



This just means you can't copy the inverse down verbatim as your solution.


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## goodatthis (Jul 29, 2014)

porkynator said:


> Anyone wants to try this scramble? I've found a quite lucky 27 HTM solution (23 skeleton + 4 for 3 corners) and interesting 12 HTM F2L-1, but no good continuation for that.
> 
> Scramble: U F2 R2 B2 F2 D' L2 U L2 B2 U2 R D2 U R' L D B' D' B' F U
> 
> ...



Ironically, the start was very CFOPey but it was pretty good.

U' F' R' U2 L2 U2 L' R U' R2 // 2x2x3+cancel into F2L-1
U' R U R' U' R // F2L-1
Switch to inverse (R' U R U' R' U R2 U R' L U2 L2 U2 R F U premoves) 
U' B L' B' L U2 L U2 L' // L4C

Optimal insertions give 5 move cancellations, total 36 moves. 

25 move skeleton.


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## G2013 (Jul 29, 2014)

How do I know where it is better to insert a corner 3-cycle commutator?
Like


porkynator said:


> U F'
> B U' F U'
> F' R' F2 //Stuff (9/9)
> L B2 L2 F2 //??? (4/13)
> ...


Why did you insert * there and how did you know it was going to cancel moves? Because corners move around a lot and I can't find a way to think a place to insert commutators, so I always put them at the start or at the end.


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## vcuber13 (Jul 29, 2014)

You usually put temporary stickers with numbers on them to show the cycle. Then go through the skeleton and after each move see if the commutator will cancel any moves.


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## Julian (Jul 30, 2014)

Nats practice: F R2 B L2 B R2 B2 L2 D2 F' D' F2 R F2 L2 D U' R F' R2 D'

Got two 30-move solutions, a 25-move L3C with 3 moves cancelled, and a 26-move L3C with 4.



Spoiler: Common to both



D2 L2 D2 L F D2 F D' F' // 2x2x2 + 2 pairs
R L' D' * R' // 2x2x1
B' D2 B' L2 D L' // F2L





Spoiler: Then, for the first



L D L . B' L' B D' L' D2 // L3C, cancels 3 moves with previous
Insert L' B R B' L B R' B' at . cancelling 3 moves.





Spoiler: Or, for the second



R' B' D' B D R D2 // L3C
Insert D L' D' R2 D L D' R2 at * cancelling 4 moves





Spoiler: Final solutions



D2 L2 D2 L F D2 F D' F' R L' D' R' B' D2 B' L2 D2 B R B' L B R' B2 L' B D' L' D2 *30 HTM*

D2 L2 D2 L F D2 F D' F' R L2 D' R2 D L D' R B' D2 B' L2 D L' R' B' D' B D R D2 *30 HTM*


Insertion Finder confirms both are optimal


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## G2013 (Jul 30, 2014)

Thanks vcuber13!



G2013 said:


> How would you (plural) solve the case when you have F2L-1, all edges oriented, and all edges in place but UR and UL, that are switched?
> Because it appears a lot in my solves.
> I solve by doing a U or U' turn and sune, or by avoiding that case by modifying my previous moves.
> Is there a better way?


I posted that but I didn't realise that "A U or U' turn and sune" won't solve that case.
I use "A U or U' turn and sune" for solving 2 adjacent edges swapped, but I also try to avoid cases like that.
But I can't find an optimal solve to UR and UL swapped, when trying to only solve Edges. I sometimes do 1 or 2 corner-edge pairs and solve like heise, but here I have another situation: 2 adjacent edges swapped.
¿What would you do there?


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## guysensei1 (Jul 30, 2014)

I guess I'll repost this in the FMC thread as well.
Lol D2 L2 U2 F L F' D' R2 B D F2 U F2 D F2 U' R2 D L2 B2

U' R' D' R D2//2x2x2 (5)
D F2 D'//2x2x3 (3)
switch to inverse,
U F U' F R' F R//F2L3 (7)
L' U L//F2L4 (3)
L U F U' F' L'//OLL (6)
B U' F U2 B' U B U2 B' F' U2//PLL (11)


Final: U' R' D' R D' F2 D' U2 F B U2 B' U' B U2 F' U B' L F U F' U' L2 U' L R' F' R F' U F' U' (33) My FMC PB

IF gives
U' R' D' R D' F2 D' [@1] L F U F' U' L2 U' L R' F' R F' U F' U'
Insert at @1: R U' L D2 L' U L D2 L' R'
After the 1st insertion: U' R' D' R D' F2 D' R U' L D2 L' [@2] U L D2 R' F U F' U' L2 U' L R' F' R F' U F' U'
Insert at @2: L U2 D2 R' U R U2 D2 L' U'
Fewest moves: 30. 12 moves cancelled
The final solution: U' R' D' R D' F2 D' R U' L U2 R' U R U2 R' F U F' U' L2 U' L R' F' R F' U F' U'

Would more proficient FMCers give this one a try?


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## yoinneroid (Jul 30, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> I guess I'll repost this in the FMC thread as well.
> Lol D2 L2 U2 F L F' D' R2 B D F2 U F2 D F2 U' R2 D L2 B2
> 
> U' R' D' R D2//2x2x2 (5)
> ...



you seem to learn quite a lot within such a short time :O


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## guysensei1 (Jul 30, 2014)

Nah this scramble is just luck.


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## Brest (Jul 30, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Lol D2 L2 U2 F L F' D' R2 B D F2 U F2 D F2 U' R2 D L2 B2



Linear skeleton
U' R' D' R D' F2 D'
R' U' F' U R U
F2 U F' L F' L' F'

IF gives:
U' R' D' R D' F2 D' R' U' F' [@1] U R U F2 U F' L F' L' F'
Insert at @1: F2 U B2 U' F2 U B2 U'
After the 1st insertion: U' R' D' R D' F2 D' R' U' F [@2] U B2 U' F2 U B2 R U F2 U F' L F' L' F'
Insert at @2: F' U' B U F U' B' U
Fewest moves: 29. 7 moves cancelled
The final solution: U' R' D' R D' F2 D' R' U2 B U F U' B' U2 B2 U' F2 U B2 R U F2 U F' L F' L' F'


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## G2013 (Jul 30, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> I guess I'll repost this in the FMC thread as well.
> Lol D2 L2 U2 F L F' D' R2 B D F2 U F2 D F2 U' R2 D L2 B2



I am new at fewest but I'll give a try anyway.

U' B D B' D' B' D B2 U L' F U L' F U' L' U' L2 F L2 F' L U' L2 B' U2 B U2 L' F R F' L2 F R' L U' F2 U F' U' F D R U R' D' R U' R' B2 (51 HTM)
I'm bad...
Again, fridrich has lower movecount:

R' D2 R' D' L2 - cross
U' F' U2 F2 R' F' R -f2l 1
U2 L' U L U2 L U L' - f2l 2
R' U' L' U' L R - f2l 3
U B U' B' U B U2 B' R' U' R B U B' U' R' U' R U B U2 B' - f2l 4 and EO
l' U' L' U R U' L U - OLL
L U' L D2 L' U L D2 L2 - PLL

R' D2 R' D' L2 U' F' U2 F2 R' F' R U2 L' U L U2 L U L' R' U' L' U' L R U B U' B' U B U2 B' R' U' R B U B' U' R' U' R U B U2 B' R' F' L' F R F' L F L F' L B2 L' F L B2 L2 (65 HTM)

Well, no...


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## G2013 (Jul 30, 2014)

Can 2 x (2-cycle) be created intuitively like 3-cycle?
Setup: D R U R' D' R U' R' L D R' D' L' D R D'
I can solve it with 2 3-cycle commutators, but can it be solved with only 1 optimal intuitive algorithm that switchs the 4 corners into their right place?
Thanks


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## yoinneroid (Jul 31, 2014)

G2013 said:


> Can 2 x (2-cycle) be created intuitively like 3-cycle?
> Setup: D R U R' D' R U' R' L D R' D' L' D R D'
> I can solve it with 2 3-cycle commutators, but can it be solved with only 1 optimal intuitive algorithm that switchs the 4 corners into their right place?
> Thanks


nope, you need to do it twice, so try doing it in different parts of the solution to maximize cancellations


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## G2013 (Jul 31, 2014)

That's the hardest part! Thanks


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## guysensei1 (Jul 31, 2014)

An example solve for critique:
B2 L2 U' R2 U L2 U2 B2 U2 F2 U2 B D2 B D F2 D2 L' U' B' R2
Premove: B2
L U2 R F2 R'//2x2x2 (5)
U2 L2 U' L2//2x2x3 (4)
switch to inverse,
R' F R F U F2 U' F U2 F' U F//F2L (12)
R' U' F' U F R U2//LLEF (all but 4 corners) (7)

Skeleton so far: L U2 R F2 R' U2 L2 U' L2 U2 R' F' U' F U R F' U' F U2 F' U F2 U' F' R' F' R B2

I have to go now, so I just plugged it into IF. (anyway my insertion skills are abysmal I can tell you that myself!)
L U2 R F2 R' U2 L2 U' L2 U2 R' F' [@1] U' F U R F' U' F U2 F' U F2 U' F' R' F' R B2
Insert at @1: R' U' R F R' U R U' F' U
After the 1st insertion: L U2 R F2 R' U2 L2 U' L2 U2 R' F' R' U' R F R' U R2 F' U' F U2 F' [@2] U F2 U' F' R' F' R B2
Insert at @2: F U2 F' R F R' U2 R F' R'
Fewest moves: 36. 13 moves cancelled
The final solution: L U2 R F2 R' U2 L2 U' L2 U2 R' F' R' U' R F R' U R2 F' U' R F R' U2 R F' R' U F2 U' F' R' F' R B2

Any critique for the blockbuilding techniques?


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## uesyuu (Jul 31, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> An example solve for critique:
> B2 L2 U' R2 U L2 U2 B2 U2 F2 U2 B D2 B D F2 D2 L' U' B' R2
> Premove: B2
> L U2 R F2 R'//2x2x2 (5)
> ...



L U2 R F2 R'//2x2x2
U2 L2 U' L2//2x2x3
U F' U' L F L' U2 //F2L-1
U F U' F R' F R F //L3C

Your continuation after 2x2x3 is too long.
You need to find more efficient continuation.
Do not use only F2L.
You should use blockbuilding-thinking.


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## G2013 (Jul 31, 2014)

Help!!
Scramble: D' R D' R U2 L U2 B2 R L' F L D' U2 F L U2 D' F U2 D2 L2 R2 F2 R
Solution: F D F D' U F' L F2 L' F' L' F U' F' L F L' U2 L2 F L' U R U' L U R' U2 R U' R' U2 F' U' F U R U R' B2 R' B2 R' U' D2 L2 U2
If I do first solution, then scramble the cube solves... but I want to do first scramble, then solution, and solve the cube.
In which way do I need to reverse/invert/whatever it?
Tha solution is:
F D F D' U F' L F2 L' F' L' F U' F' L F L' U2 L2 F: Done in Normal
U2 L2 D2 U R B2 R B2 R U' R' U' F' U F U2 R U R' U2 R U' L' U R' U' L: Done in inverse
...

If I undo premoves the solve is what I wrote above, but that doesn't work...


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## Cubenovice (Aug 2, 2014)

Interesting stuff going on in the FMC at US Nationals:

1st scramble: 15 of 105 people got sub 30; *Vincent Sheu on top with 22 HTM*
2nd scramble: 3 sub 30; *Vincent Sheu on top with 23 HTM*

I'm looking forward to the scramble and wishing Vincent a similar result on the 3rd round!


http://www.cubingusa.com/usnationals2014/results/live.php?cid=575&cat=15&rnd=1

EDIT: 1st scramble L2 F L2 R2 B2 R2 B' R2 F U2 L2 D B2 U' F' L' B2 R' U2 L2



Spoiler: solution ( involves LL skip )



L R B' D' B2 D2 F' // 2x2x3 (7)
R U' // Setup pair (9)
R' U' R' // XXCross setup to EO (12)
F' U F // EO (15)
R' U2 R // Insert pair (18)
U' R U2 R' // Last pair + LL skip (22)


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## Jimmy Liu (Aug 4, 2014)

The FM Taiwan single record 31 moves lasting for almost five years, finally being broken by my 30 moves result!
Since the mean of 3 round was the first time that Taiwan ever held, I'm happy to set the record by 33.00 of 3.

1st Scramble: U2 R2 D2 B2 U2 B2 L2 D B2 R D' B L' B2 R U2 B2 R2
Solution: B' R' B' R L B L' B' L' D L D' B R2 U2 R2 B' R' B U' R' U2 B2 R U' D' B' F2 L' R' (30 moves)

apply on inverse: 

R L F2 B D (2x2x2 block)
U R' B2 (make a 2x2x1 block)
U2 R U B' R B R2 U2 R2 (insert those blocks)

switch to normal:

pre-moves: R2 U2 R2 B' R' B U' R' U2 B2 R U' D' B' F2 L' R'
B' R' B' R (F2L)
L B L' B' L' D L D' B (OLL)
PLL skip!!!

2nd Scramble: U B2 L2 U' L2 D' B2 F2 D F R D' L2 D R B' R2 U' R B
Solution: D' B2 D2 L2 R' D' R2 D' F' D' R F2 U L' D L D' L U' F D F D' L D2 L' D' F2 L D' L' F D2 (33 moves)

apply on normal: 

D' B2 D2 L2 (2x2x2 block)
R' D' R2 D' F' R (2x2x3 block)

switch to inverse:

pre-moves: R' F D R2 D R L2 D2 B2 D
D2 F' L D L' F2 (F2L-1)
D L D2 L' D F' D' F (F2L-2)
OLL skip!
F2 U L' D L' D' L U' F2 R' D R (PLL)
cancel 2 moves from premoves to PLL

3rd Scramble: D2 L D2 F2 L B2 R2 F2 D U' R' D F2 D B2 F D' U' F'
Solution: L' F' L' F U2 R B' L B L' B R' U' B' U2 B L2 B L2 B' U' L U2 L2 B' U' B D F' D F2 U L D L2 U2 (36 moves)

apply on inverse:

U2 L2 D' L' (2x2x1 block)
U' F2 D' F D' (2x2x3 block)
B' U B L2 U2 L' U2 (finish two layers)
U' B L2 B' L2 B' U2 B U' (OLL)
U2 R B' L B' L' B R' U2 F' L F L (PLL)
SUCKS!

So my total WCA FM results are 33 30 33 36, the average is 33.^^


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## G2013 (Aug 4, 2014)

Congratulations for NR average and single FMC!!


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## Dane man (Aug 5, 2014)

Alright, I want to get into this FMC thing. It's about time that I've started doing it. I already know how, I just need to actually participate and practice. Hopefully I'm good (or lucky) at it.

To get a feel for how you all do FMC, I've got a few questions:

What are the pros and cons (or best parts) of each FMC method (CFOP, Roux, Petrus, Heise, etc.)?
How do you organize your 1 hour for finding a solution?
How do you organize your solutions?
What do you think is the most useful technique and why (alternate algs for cancelations, insertions, premoves, inverses/NISS, etc.)?


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## guysensei1 (Aug 5, 2014)

Dane man said:


> Alright, I want to get into this FMC thing. It's about time that I've started doing it. I already know how, I just need to actually participate and practice. Hopefully I'm good (or lucky) at it.
> 
> To get a feel for how you all do FMC, I've got a few questions:
> 
> ...



I'll try to answer some.

1) CFOP: easy, but terribly inefficient. Roux: Efficient, but M slices are counted as 2. Petrus: Well the first 2 steps are what most people do. The rest, idk.
2) -not worthy of answering because I have no organisation-
3)-I have no idea either-
4) Premoves and insertions. These are the easiest to understand, followed my inverses/NISS. Alternate algs are useful but not necessary IMO.


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## kinch2002 (Aug 5, 2014)

Dane man said:


> What are the pros and cons (or best parts) of each FMC method (CFOP, Roux, Petrus, Heise, etc.)?


Never use CFOP. The odd F2L alg or OLL (with PLL skip) might help towards the end of a solution, but otherwise you should not think about CFOP. The most common approach is Petrus/Heise style with blocks at the start, then trying to solve most other stuff to leave an insertion, often thinking about EO to help you with solving all edges.


> How do you organize your 1 hour for finding a solution?


Work until I find a good enough block (aiming for < 10 move 2x2x3 usually), then just try every possible continuation I can see until I get a skeleton that will likely get me < 30 move solution. Keep finding skeletons until I have the time left to do an insertion.


> How do you organize your solutions?


Not sure what you mean by this? I just write everything interesting down on the paper and draw arrows and notate stuff etc.


> What do you think is the most useful technique and why (alternate algs for cancelations, insertions, premoves, inverses/NISS, etc.)?


If you want to become world-class (average < 30) then:
Alternate algs - Not particularly useful. I would never learn them specifically for FM.
Insertions - Essential. Learn 3 corners, then 4/5 corners. Edges is not essential but occasionally useful.
Premoves, inverse, NISS - Essential. They are fundamentally all the same thing as each other really.
Algs for short LL cases - Occasionally useful. I also find these very interesting to know 

I will also make a shameless plug for my Cubing World video that talks through what to learn for FM.


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## goodatthis (Aug 5, 2014)

Dane man said:


> Alright, I want to get into this FMC thing. It's about time that I've started doing it. I already know how, I just need to actually participate and practice. Hopefully I'm good (or lucky) at it.
> 
> To get a feel for how you all do FMC, I've got a few questions:
> 
> ...



1. First of all, I really wouldn't say that a "method" is used for FMC. If you just wanted to do straight solves with no insertions, NISS, premoves, etc, then I would probably say that mixtures of Heise, Petrus, Tripod, and other heavy blockbuilding methods are used. But really FMC is just trying out different ways of making blocks or other things that I would basically consider it freestyle blockbuilding. Generally, tripod is the best way to get to L3C, but usually you incoropate some sort of EO before then, and you don't do a tripod LL. So I would basically just say try to build an F2L-1 (lots of ways to do this, just experiment, but usually 2x2x2 to 2x2x3 to add 2x2x1 is a good way to go) 

2. There's lots of ways of doing this, but what most people do is just try to find some good blocks and continuations with those blocks. Try the inverse scramble as well. Some people write everything down, some people just try different things until they get something interesting and then write it down. I personally am not good at FMC in a competition setting, so sorry for the lack of advice in this part.

3. I'm assuming you mean the notation for the steps of FMC, like:

Random moves // 2x2x2
Random moves // 2x2x3
Random moves // add square
Random moves // EO 
Random moves// to L3C

It's really just detailing the steps you took. Nothing special. 

3. Everything. Alternate algs probably aren't very useful, because if you used a common OCLL to solve a L3C case at the end, you could just as easily use an alternate commutator to insert earlier in the solution and cancel even more moves. When you first start, I would say just try using everything, if you can understand it.


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## okayama (Aug 9, 2014)

Here are my winning solutions from Cube Camp in Kanazawa 2014.

1st scramble: D2 U' F2 U F2 R2 U' L2 F2 R2 U' R F' L' R' U' L2 D F' D2 U
1st solution: U2 D' F' B' U R' L D L' F U2 B' L' D2 L2 B2 L U B U' B' L2 B2 U B' D2 B U' B' D (30 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

(Normal)

1x2x2 block: U2 D' F'
1x2x3 block: B' U R'
2x2x3 block: L D L' F U2
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: B' L' D2 L

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L' D2 L B U2 F' L D' L' R U' B F D U2

Pseudo F2L: D * B' L
All but 3 corners: L B U B' U' L' B2 L'
Correction: L' D2 L B U2 F' L D' L' R U' B F D U2

Insert at *: D2 B U B' D2 B U' B'

In the final 10 min, I found the following one:

Pre-scramble: R D' R'

1x2x2 block: U2 F'
1x2x3 block: B' U R'
2x2x3 block: F U L U
Finish F2L: B2 D2
All but 3 corners: B D' B' D B' D' B2 D (I wrote down B D' B D B D' B2 D)
Correction: R D' R'

but I couldn't write down a correct skeleton in time. 
So I decided to give up this skeleton and submitted the backup solution.

Tomoyuki Hiraide said he found the same skeleton (gives 28 moves) in 5~6 min.



2nd scramble: D2 U2 B' F' R2 F' L2 F D L F R' F' L2 F U2 L' B2 F2
2nd solution: L' U' L D2 L' U L U' B' D' L U L' B' L B' L U B U' B' L D U2 L' U2 L2 (27 moves)


Spoiler



Here is my 30 min backup solution (31 moves).

Pre-scramble: F R'

3 c/e pairs: U'
c/e pair: L'
2x2x1 block: F
2x2x2 block: L B' L
More square: U R F2 R2
More square: U2 F
Finish Pseudo F2L: U B
All but 3 corners: L' U' B' U B L
Correct pseudoness: B' * R'
Premoves correction: F R'

Insert at *: B' D' B U2 B' D B U2

In the remaining time, I found the following solution.

(Normal)

3 c/e pairs: U'
Pseudo 2x2x2 block: D2 B' D'

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: D B D2 U

More square: L2 U2 L
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: U2 D'
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: L2

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L2 D U2 L' U2 L2

1st square: U'
F2L minus 1 slot: D2 B' D' L U
Finish F2L: L' B' L
All but 3 corners: B' L U B U' B' L'
Correction: L2 D U2 L' U2 L2

Insert at the beginning: L' U' L D2 L' U L D2



3rd scramble: F2 L' B2 D2 R' B2 L F2 U2 R' U B' R U' B L F' L' F D'
3rd solution: D2 F D' R' U' R2 L' U' L F' L F B' U B R' F R F' B D' B' U B D U2 B D' B' U2 B D B2 (33 moves)


Spoiler



(Normal)

c/e pair: D2
2x2x2 block: F D' R' U' R2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: R2 U R D F' D2

2x2x3 block: U' F R' F' R
F2L minus 1 slot: B' U' B
Orient edges: F' L' F
All but 4 corners: L' U L

I did insertions in the final 10 minutes as:

Skeleton on the normal scramble: D2 F D' R' U' R2 L' U' L F' L F B' U B R' F R F' U
Corner 3-cycle: U' B D' B' U B D * B'
Insert at *: U2 B D' B' U2 B D B'

IF says the optimal insertions give 28 moves.



mean of 3: 30, 27, 33 = 30, not good for me again, but this was the best I could do in the competition.


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## Iggy (Aug 9, 2014)

My solution for this week's Weekly Comp:



Spoiler



Scramble: B2 U2 B2 F2 R' B2 R U2 L D2 R' F R U2 L2 R2 F D U F' L2 
My solution: L' R2 D' F2 D' B' L2 F' L' F L2 R2 B' L B' R U' B U' R2 U2 R2 U R U2 B U B' U2 D (30)

Pseudo 2x2x2 (premove D): L' R2 D' F2 D'
2x2x3: B' R2 * B2 R U' B
F2L: U' R2 U2 R2 U R U2 B U B' U2 (22)
Undo premove: D

*= L2 R2 F' L' F L2 R2 B' L B

PB and tied the NR. I'm kinda happy with this, but at the same time a bit disappointed that it isn't sub 30. Any tips?


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## G2013 (Aug 12, 2014)

Can anyone explain me what are inserted moves and how to use that technique?


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## Julian (Aug 12, 2014)

G2013 said:


> Can anyone explain me what are inserted moves and how to use that technique?


This thread is where I got started with FMC. It goes over insertions (both commutators and single moves) as well as many other helpful things. Also the wiki page for FMC techniques you may useful as well.

Hope they help


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## G2013 (Aug 13, 2014)

Thanks Julian!! But I still needing an example solve, may be premade, with an inserted move example...
-------------------------------
Also, I want to share my optimal PLLs with U, U', U2, or no AUF (A V PLL and a U at the end will have one extra move, I generated algs that don't have that extra move if its possible to delete the move)



Spoiler: 84 PLLs



Full list:

Without AUF:

H: R L U2 L' R' F' B' U2 B F (10 HTM)
Z: R L' U2 D2 R L' D R2 L2 U' F2 B2 (12 HTM)
U clockwise: F2 U L R' F2 R L' U F2 (9 HTM)
U counterclockwise: F2 U' L R' F2 R L' U' F2 (9 HTM)
J left: U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' l2 (10 HTM)
J right: U2 l U l' U2 r U' L U r2 (10 HTM)
A clockwise: R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 (9 HTM)
A counterclockwise: R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R (9 HTM)
Na: F2 U2 R2 U F2 U2 F2 R2 U R2 U2 R2 F2 U (14 HTM)
Nb: F2 U2 L2 U' F2 U2 F2 L2 U' L2 U2 L2 F2 U' (14 HTM)
Y: R2 U' R2 F R' f' R' U R F' U' B U (13 HTM)
E: R2 U R2 U' F2 U R2 B2 D' L2 D B2 U' R2 (14 HTM)
F: R L' B2 L' D R' B2 L U' R2 L F2 R2 U (14 HTM)
T: R2 U R2 D' F2 L2 U' L2 D F2 U' (11 HTM)
V: R' U R' U' B' R' B2 U' B' U B' R B R (14 HTM)
Ra: R U2 R' U2 l U' l' U' R U l U R2 F (14 HTM)
Rb: R' U2 R U2 l' U l U R' U' R' F' R2 U' (14 HTM)
Ga: R2 u R' U R' U' R u' R2 F' U F (12 HTM)
Gb: R' U' R y R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2 (12 HTM)
Gc: L2 u' L U' L U L' u L2 F U' F' (12 HTM)
Gd: L U L' y' L2 u' L U' L' U L' u L2 (12 HTM)


With U' AUF:

L2 B2 F2 R2 D' L2 B2 F2 R2 (9f*) //H
D2 L' R F D2 U2 F' D2 U2 F L R' (12f*) //Z
F2 U' L R' F2 L' R U' F2 U' (10f*) //U counterclockwise
F2 U L R' F2 L' R U F2 U' (10f*) //U clockwise
L2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 L2 (10f*) //J left
B U' F U2 B' U B U2 B' F' (10f*) //J right
R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R U' (10f*) //A counterclockwise
R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 U' (10f*) //A clockwise
R2 B2 U2 B2 U' B2 R2 U2 R2 U' B2 U2 R2 (13f*) //Na
F2 L2 U2 L2 U L2 F2 U2 F2 U L2 U2 F2 (13f*) //Nb
F2 U F2 U F2 U2 R B R' F2 R B' R' (13f*) //Y
R2 U B2 D' L2 D B2 R2 U' F2 U R2 U' R2 U' (15f*) //E
R2 B2 L R2 U' L F2 R' D L' F2 L' R (13f*) //F
R2 D' F2 U F2 R2 D B2 U' B2 (10f*) //T
B2 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 D' F2 U F2 D2 R2 U' B2 (14f*) //V
R U2 R' U B L' B' R B L B' U R' (13f*) //Ra
L U' B U L2 D2 R F R' D2 L U' B' (13f*) //Rb
R2 F2 D B2 D' B2 U B2 U' B2 F2 R2 U' (13f*) //Ga
B2 L2 R2 U L2 D' B2 D B2 U' R2 B2 U' (13f*) //Gb
L2 F2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 F2 L2 U' (13f*) //Gc
B2 L2 R2 U' R2 D B2 D' B2 U L2 B2 U' (13f*) //Gd

With U AUF:

L2 B2 F2 R2 D L2 B2 F2 R2 (9f*) //H
F' L F L' R' F L R' F L' F' R2 (12f*) //Z
F2 U' L R' F2 L' R U' F2 U (10f*) //U counterclockwise
F2 U L R' F2 L' R U F2 U (10f*) //U clockwise
B' U F' U2 B U' B' U2 B F (10f*) //J left
L R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' (10f*) //J right
R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R U (10f*) //A clockwise
R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 U (10f*) //A counterclockwise
F2 R2 U2 R2 U' R2 F2 U2 F2 U' R2 U2 F2 (13f*) //Na
R2 F2 U2 F2 U F2 R2 U2 R2 U F2 U2 R2 (13f*) //Nb
R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 F' L' F R2 F' L F (13f*) //Y
F2 U L2 U2 L2 F2 U L2 U L2 U2 F2 U' F2 U' (15f*) //E
R2 F2 L' R2 U L' B2 R D' L B2 L R' (13f*) //F
R2 D B2 U' B2 R2 D' F2 U F2 (10f*) //T
R2 U B2 D2 F2 L2 D F2 D B2 U2 R2 U' R2 (14f*) //V
F U' R B' R' F' R B R' U' F U2 F' (13f*) //Ra
R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 (13f*) //Rb
R2 F2 D B2 D' B2 U B2 U' B2 F2 R2 U (13f*) //Ga
B2 L2 R2 U L2 D' B2 D B2 U' R2 B2 U (13f*) //Gb
L2 F2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 F2 L2 U (13f*) //Gc
B2 L2 R2 U' R2 D B2 D' B2 U L2 B2 U (13f*) //Gd

With U2 AUF:

L2 B2 F2 R2 D' L2 B2 F2 R2 U' (10f*) //H
L2 R2 D L2 R2 U L2 B2 L2 R2 F2 R2 (12f*) //Z
F2 U' L R' F2 L' R U' F2 U2 (10f*) //U counterclockwise
F2 U L R' F2 L' R U F2 U2 (10f*) //U clockwise
L2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 L2 U' (11f*) //J left
B2 L2 U L2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U' (11f*) //J right
R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R U2 (10f*) //A counterclockwise
R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 U2 (10f*) //A clockwise
R2 B2 U2 B2 U' B2 R2 U2 R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' (14f*) //Na
F2 R' F2 U2 R2 U2 R' F2 R2 U2 R' U2 F2 R2 (14f*) //Nb
F2 U F2 U F2 U2 R B R' F2 R B' R' U' (14f*) //Y
F2 U L2 U2 L2 F2 U L2 U L2 U2 F2 U' F2 (14f*) //E
B' F R' B2 D2 B2 F' R F' U2 B L' F (13f*) //F
R2 D' F2 U F2 R2 D B2 U' B2 U' (11f*) //T
R U R2 F R2 U' R' F2 L' U L F2 U2 F' (14f*) //V
L' U' L U2 R B2 L D L D' L2 B2 R' (13f*) //Ra
L' B2 R2 D' R D R B2 L U2 R U' R' (13f*) //Rb
F2 D B2 D L2 B D F' D2 B D' F' (12f*) //Ga
L D R' D2 L D' R' B2 D' R2 D' L2 (12f*) //Gb
F2 D' B2 D' R2 B' D' F D2 B' D F (12f*) //Gc
R' D' L D2 R' D L B2 D L2 D R2 (12f*) //Gd


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## mycube (Aug 14, 2014)

Here are my FMC-Results from Euros, 2nd place, first official mean and official single pb 



Spoiler: 31 Moves



Scramble: F L2 D2 B’ L2 B U2 L2 B F2 U’ L’ D U2 F’ U’ R F2 U’ R’
Premove: F’
L’ U2 B2 U’ - 2x2x2 [4/4]
F R2 D2 R’ D’ R’ D2 F’ D F’ - F2L-1 [10/14]
D2 R2 D’ R’ F’ R2 F - Finish [7-1/20] Premove cancels with the last Move

L4C:
L’ U2 B2 . U’ F R2 D2 R’ D’ R’ D2 F’ D F’ D2 R2 D’ R’ F’ R2
. = F D F’ U’ : F D’ F’ U [8-4/24]
: = U’ L2 U R U’ L2 U R’ [8-1/31] - bad luck with the insertion compared to the first one 

L’ U2 B2 F D F’ U2 L2 U R U’ L2 U R’ F D’ R2 D2 R’ D’ R’ D2 F’ D F’ D2 R2 D’ R’ F’ R2 - 31 Moves





Spoiler: 25 Moves



Scramble: L2 U2 B2 L2 F’ U2 L2 D2 L2 B’ F D’ R D2 F’ L’ F’ L2 D F’ L
inverser: L’ F D’ L2 F L F D2 R’ D F’ B L2 D2 L2 U2 F L2 B2 U2 L2

Pre: F'
F U2 L B’ D2
L2 F2 U’ F2
R B R’ U B’ U B U

L3C:
. F U2 L B’ D2 L2 F2 U’ F2 R B R’ U B’ U B U F'
. = U B U’ F2 U B’ U’ F2 [8-1/25] - again, bad luck with insertions  I really hoped for a better results, but no..

U B U’ F2 U B’ U’ F' U2 L B’ D2 L2 F2 U’ F2 R B R’ U B’ U B U F’ - 25 Moves





Spoiler: 29 Moves



Scramble: F R2 B’ U2 F2 R’ F’ U2 B2 L’ D’ L’ U2 B’ U’ R'
inverser: R U B U2 L D L B2 U2 F R F2 U2 B R2 F’

R’ D’ F’ L’ B2 D F’ R’ F’ U F R’ B’ R2 B R’
5 Corners, 2 two of them twisted in 16

R’ D’ F’ L’ B2 D F’ - 2x2x2 + 1x2x2 [7/7]
R’ F’ U F - XX-Cross [4/11]
R’ B’ R2 B R’ - Finish [5/16]

L5C, ein pure twist:
R’ D’ F’ L’ : B2 D F’ R’ . F’ U F R’ B’ R2 B _ R’
. = R’ B2 R F’ R’ B2 R F [8-3/21] - solves the l3c, not 2 twisted remain
: = D F’ D’ B2 D F D’ B2 [8-6/23]
_ = B’ D B U’ B’ D’ B U [8-2/29]

R’ D’ F’ L’ D F’ D’ B2 D R2 B2 R F’ R’ B2 R U F R’ B’ R2 D B U’ B’ D’ B U R’ - 29 Moves


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## Pyjam (Aug 14, 2014)

I haven't practiced for a while. What happened to the "FMC Cube Companion" ? Has it moved ?


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## ch_ts (Aug 14, 2014)

Well, it used to be at Per's FMC site (mustcube.net) but that's been down for at least a half year, currently we have David Adams's FMC site here. The FMC cube companion has more or less been replaced by alg.cubing.net


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## Pyjam (Aug 14, 2014)

Thanks a lot.


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## porkynator (Aug 17, 2014)

My site has moved to http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/
I renew my invite to good FMCers to post some solves on my blog.
Contact me, I'll give you an account and a few guidelines for posting solves 

EDIT: to avoid double-posting, here is another CF solution: alg.cubing.net. 35 HTM isn't great, but I thought I could share anyway


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## Tim Major (Aug 21, 2014)

My 3rd place solution at Ausnats

L2 R2 F' R2 F D2 R2 D2 U2 B2 D B D U R2 D2 L' D B D'

x' y' U R2 U' D L2 R2 D2 U' L F' L' U R' F R U F R' F' R U L U L2 B R' D R U2 R' D' R U2 L B' (35)


8 move insertion with no cancels is before the last 2 moves
U L U L2 B * L B'
Solution without insertion;
x' y' U R2 U' D L2 R2 D2 U' L F' L' U R' F R U F R' F' R U L U L2 B L B' (27)

I spent about 40 minutes without touching a pen, trying to blockbuild to PLL skip or something, probably did 80+ with no PLL skip or 3 corner type thing. Found a 5 move 2x2 that I messed around with a lot.

Realised I had nothing written down with 20 mins left, found this 27 move CFOPy skeleton and found an insertion with no cancels with about a minute and wrote it down quickly. I realise rotations are bad, I should've done a proper hour-long solution trying inverse scramble and writing no rotations but wasted too much time. 

Any insertions I missed? This tied my comp PB so any cancelations would've been nice.


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## vcuber13 (Aug 21, 2014)

Tim Major said:


> Any insertions I missed?



If you don't know about this, its very useful. It gives that the shortest solution with your skeleton is 35.


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## vcuber13 (Aug 21, 2014)

Spoiler



I would continue your 2x2x2 as:
Premove: B2 D2
B2 D R D2
R' B'
11+2 moves to F2L-1

For your skeleton so far, I would likely switch and do
R2 U R2 U' R2 B' R' B R U R' U' which leaves 2x2 corners


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## wontolla (Aug 21, 2014)

brandbest1 said:


> WARNING: CONTAINS SCRAMBLES FROM THE WEEKLY COMPETITION
> 
> So I've gotten this far and I don't know how to proceed:
> 
> ...



If this is the scramble of the CURRENT weekly competition, you shouldn't be asking for help, isn't it?


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## Jimmy Liu (Aug 21, 2014)

> L2 R2 F' R2 F D2 R2 D2 U2 B2 D B D U R2 D2 L' D B D'



Finding this for over an hour, as the result is 32 moves.

apply on normal: B L D (2x2x1 block)
switch to inverse: D' L' B' (In. SC) F' L2 (2x2x2 block)
U R (another block)
R U R' (CE pair)
B2 D' R' D R2 B R' (insert blocks)
F R' F' R (two layers)
R B2 L' B' L B' R' (OLL)
R B' R F2 R' B R F2 R2 (PLL)


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## qaz (Aug 21, 2014)

scramble: R2 F2 R D' U2 L2 R' F L R2 U2 L D' U2 F L2 D' B2 L D' L2 D U' R D2

D2 R U B L' D' L' B
R U2 R2 F2
U' F R2 F' U R
on inverse:
U2 F' U' F
F R U R' U' F' U2

skeleton: D2 * R U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U R U' R' F2 U F U2 (28)
* D2 U2 L' D L D2 U2 R' D' R
solution: U2 L' D L D2 U2 R' D' R2 U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U R U' R' F2 U F U2 (35)

when i put my skeleton into IF, it gives this (saying 36 moves is optimal for my skeleton):


Spoiler



R2 F2 R D' U2 L2 R' F L R2 U2 L D' U2 F L2 D' B2 L D' L2 D U' R D2
Your Skeleton
D2 R U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U R U' R' F2 U F U2

1 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed

D2 R U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U [@1] R U' R' F2 U F U2
Insert at @1: D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F L2
Fewest moves: 36. 0 moves cancelled
The final solution: D2 R U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F L2 R U' R' F2 U F U2

etc.



why wasn't IF able to find the same 35-move solution?


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## G2013 (Aug 21, 2014)

Well, that means that IF doesn't *always* give optimal results... Or that you are insertion god

-----------

The commutator [F L' D2 L F, U2] can be adapted (changing the first F move to F2 *or* performing the rotations "y2 z" and then change the first F to F2) to solve this cases:



But can it be adapted to solve this:

?


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## TDM (Aug 21, 2014)

G2013 said:


> But can it be adapted to solve this:
> 
> ?


I don't think so, because that alg twists to corners, not three. You'll have to find a completely different alg to solve that case.


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## G2013 (Aug 21, 2014)

What alg would you use if it were impossible to avoid that case?


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## TDM (Aug 21, 2014)

G2013 said:


> What alg would you use if it were impossible to avoid that case?


I don't actually do FMC, but I've heard twisted corners are very bad cases to get and it's best to avoid them. I would do sune+U perm given no other choice, but you'd have to ask an FMCer, because they would actually know what they're talking about.


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## Cale S (Aug 21, 2014)

G2013 said:


> What alg would you use if it were impossible to avoid that case?


Optimal is R U' L U2 R2 D' F2 D U L' U' R U'


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## Rnewms (Aug 21, 2014)

G2013 said:


> What alg would you use if it were impossible to avoid that case?



R' F' R L U2 r' U2 R2 D R' U R' U


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## Sebastien (Aug 22, 2014)

TDM said:


> I don't actually do FMC, but I've heard twisted corners are very bad cases to get and it's best to avoid them. I would do sune+U perm given no other choice, but you'd have to ask an FMCer, because they would actually know what they're talking about.



Well, that's clearly false. twisted corners give the best cancelations as you have the most freedom during the first insertion. 2 twisted corners is surely the best "2 insertions" case. However, of course it is nicer in general to end up with 3 permuted corners instead of 3 twisted corners, as the former requires only one insertion. 

In the end, it's always a matter your skeleton's length.


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## AvGalen (Aug 22, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> Well, that's clearly false. twisted corners give the best cancelations as you have the most freedom during the first insertion. 2 twisted corners is surely the best "2 insertions" case. However, of course it is nicer in general to end up with 3 permuted corners instead of 3 twisted corners, as the former requires only one insertion.
> 
> In the end, it's always a matter your skeleton's length.


Why would you call that false? As soon as you leave one twisted corner (or edge) somewhere during your skeleton you will already need 2 insertions and about 12 moves to solve it. A piece that is in place but misoriented takes the most moves to solve. Superflip is one of the worst for this exact reason and even a single flipped cross-piece during a speedsolve is already bad (4 moves and not finger trick friendly)


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## dbax0999 (Aug 22, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> a single flipped cross-piece during a speedsolve is already bad (4 moves and not finger trick friendly)



Off topic, but I always thought R' u R' u' was pretty good despite requiring a regrip.


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## kinch2002 (Aug 22, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> Why would you call that false? As soon as you leave one twisted corner (or edge) somewhere during your skeleton you will already need 2 insertions and about 12 moves to solve it. A piece that is in place but misoriented takes the most moves to solve. Superflip is one of the worst for this exact reason and even a single flipped cross-piece during a speedsolve is already bad (4 moves and not finger trick friendly)


True if you solve linearly.
I would always expect <10 moves to double insert 2 twisted corners. It has so much freedom. I think I did it in 6 moves total once (6 4 move cancellations).
He was saying that saying twisted corners are a very bad case is false. If I don't have a 3-cycle left, 2 twisted corners is the next best case


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## Sebastien (Aug 22, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> Why would you call that false? As soon as you leave one twisted corner (or edge) somewhere during your skeleton you will already need 2 insertions and about 12 moves to solve it. A piece that is in place but misoriented takes the most moves to solve. Superflip is one of the worst for this exact reason and even a single flipped cross-piece during a speedsolve is already bad (4 moves and not finger trick friendly)



I call it false because the thought is rather false. While you are right that you need 2 insertions then, the skeletons are usually shorter. 

Also 12 moves is way over the top. I'd rather say it is 8-9 moves for 2 twisted corners and 9-10 moves for 3 twisted corners or 4 corners with one of them twisted on average.

I also decided to call this "false" as I remember that I was afraid of twisted corners as well ~4 years ago when getting seriously into FMC and I first had to learn that this is wrong. I still remember that Erik got 4 twisted corners with 13 moves at a competition back in 2010 and we both were convinced that this is really bad lucky and not really suitable for insertions, while these days I would love working with that skeleton. 

As another addition, you can barely "avoid" twisted corners, in the sense that doing something slightly different rsults in another skeleton that requires fewer insertions. Or even if, that generally means that you already performed one inserion without noticing it. 

Edit: partially ninja'd by Dan.


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## Erik (Aug 22, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> Also 12 moves is way over the top. I'd rather say it is 8-9 moves for 2 twisted corners and 9-10 moves for 3 twisted corners or 4 corners with one of them twisted on average.
> 
> I also decided to call this "false" as I remember that I was afraid of twisted corners as well ~4 years ago when getting seriously into FMC and I first had to learn that this is wrong. I still remember that Erik got 4 twisted corners with 13 moves at a competition back in 2010 and we both were convinced that this is really bad lucky and not really suitable for insertions, while these days I would love working with that skeleton.
> 
> As another addition, you can barely "avoid" twisted corners, in the sense that doing something slightly different rsults in another skeleton that requires fewer insertions. Or even if, that generally means that you already performed one inserion without noticing it.



How would you go about solving 4 twisted corners though? Certainly not 3 insertions?? Even with good cancellations that is like 13-15 moves. (ok that would still get that specific attempt a 28 but still )


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## TDM (Aug 22, 2014)

Sorry. I really should stop posting about things I don't know about.


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## irontwig (Aug 22, 2014)

Erik said:


> How would you go about solving 4 twisted corners though? Certainly not 3 insertions?? Even with good cancellations that is like 13-15 moves.



I would say more like 11 or 12.


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## Sebastien (Aug 22, 2014)

Erik said:


> How would you go about solving 4 twisted corners though? Certainly not 3 insertions?? Even with good cancellations that is like 13-15 moves. (ok that would still get that specific attempt a 28 but still )



Of course 3 insertions! 

3 insertions aren't scarying me anymore these days. I would expect 11-12 moves just like Erik, basically 5-6 moves cancelation for the first insertion with immense freedom + ~9-10 moves for the L4C afterwards.


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## porkynator (Aug 22, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> I call it false because the thought is rather false. While you are right that you need 2 insertions then, the skeletons are usually shorter.



I have some doubt about this: what makes you think that skeletons that leave 2 twisted corners are shorter? Personal experience? I'd say they are even longer on average, since you need to solve one more piece!
anyway, I just consider 2 twisted corners as a bad L3C case (not really bad, but I expect 1-2 more moves), since it usually happens to me by chance when I try to leave 3 corners.


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## AvGalen (Aug 22, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> Of course 3 insertions!
> 
> 3 insertions aren't scarying me anymore these days. I would expect 11-12 moves just like Erik, basically 5-6 moves cancelation for the first insertion with immense freedom + ~9-10 moves for the L4C afterwards.


Yes, it doesn't scare you anymore these days. Translation: For almost anyone else in the world this is a bad bad case.
"I would always expect <10 moves to double insert 2 twisted corners." ...and that is why I am saying it is a bad case. Having 3 mispermuted corners (or edges) would make you expect < 7 moves. Having 2 misoriented-in-place corners (or edges) would make you expect < 10 moves. Do you notice how 3 > 2 and 10 > 7 (less pieces, more moves)


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## Laura O (Aug 22, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> "I would always expect <10 moves to double insert 2 twisted corners." ...and that is why I am saying it is a bad case. Having 3 mispermuted corners (or edges) would make you expect < 7 moves. Having 2 misoriented-in-place corners (or edges) would make you expect < 10 moves. Do you notice how 3 > 2 and 10 > 7 (less pieces, more moves)



So what's the message?
If you have the choice between a 20 move skeleton with 2 twisted corners or a 20 move skeleton with 3 permuted corners the twisted corners would probably be a bad case. If the skeleton with 2 twisted corners was just 15 moves it wouldn't.


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## Sebastien (Aug 22, 2014)

porkynator said:


> I have some doubt about this: what makes you think that skeletons that leave 2 twisted corners are shorter? Personal experience? I'd say they are even longer on average, since you need to solve one more piece!
> anyway, I just consider 2 twisted corners as a bad L3C case (not really bad, but I expect 1-2 more moves), since it usually happens to me by chance when I try to leave 3 corners.



True, you're right about this.


--------------


Completely unrelated, I feel like sharing a very lucky L3C finish that I got yesterday within the German forum competition:

Scramble: L U D F L' U2 R2 B2 D' F U R2 B2 D' F2 D' B2 L2 B2 D2

On Inverse:
2x2x2+1x2x2: B * U' F2 L D L R2 U 
EO: R' F' 
L3C: R' D F2 D R F2

* = B U B' D2 B U' B' D2 (only one move cancelation unfortunately.)

Inverse solution: B2 U B' D2 B U' B' D2 U' F2 L D L R2 U R' F' R' D F2 D R F2

Solution: F2 R' D' F2 D' R F R U' R2 L' D' L' F2 U D2 B U B' D2 B U' B2

23 moves.


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## kinch2002 (Aug 22, 2014)

In conclusion:
If you intentionally solve everything but 3 corners, then 2 twisted corners is not a good case. You are more likely to get a 3-cycle case, which would be better.
If you are trying to solve a load of stuff, and hoping that 3 corners are left (I often end up solving all but 4 corners, and hope that I skip a corner) then 2 twisted corners is a decent case.
I would never define it as a 'very bad case'.

On another note, when I get 2 twisted corners I get that annoying thought of 'What if that one corner was twisted the correct way...everything would have solved'  The probability 1/3 goes through my head too, even though I know that's wrong


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## porkynator (Aug 22, 2014)

On the same topic, what about 5 corners that don't make a 5-cycle? I've always thought they're just as bad as 4 twisted corners; which is bad, unless I have a 15 move skeleton or so; and even in that case it probably won't be that cool, since shorter skeleton means fewer possible cancellations (see Sébastien's solve for example).


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## TeddyKGB (Aug 22, 2014)

2 twisted corners isn't a bad case at all. On two separate occasions I've left 2 twisted corners and canceled 13 moves...


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## EMI (Aug 22, 2014)

This whole "how good/bad are two/three twisted corners" discussion doesn't make much sense to me, as it obviously depends on the number of moves of the skeleton. Of course it's helpful to know how many moves a specific kind of insertion are taking you on average.


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## Sebastien (Aug 22, 2014)

porkynator said:


> On the same topic, what about 5 corners that don't make a 5-cycle? I've always thought they're just as bad as 4 twisted corners; which is bad, unless I have a 15 move skeleton or so; and even in that case it probably won't be that cool, since shorter skeleton means fewer possible cancellations (see Sébastien's solve for example).



Well, what can I say here...

I would simply assume that both kind of skeletons are similar, as long as those 5 corners only requires 3 insertions (remember, 4 could be possible as well).

I have actually never worked with 4 twisted corners yet (I simply never found a short skeleton leaving those), but with 5 corners needing 3 insertion a couple of times. My 31 at EC14 was actually such a case in 15 moves, unfortunately having terrible cancelation. At Velbert Open 2013 though, another such 15 move skeleton resulted in a 26 move solution.


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## Jimmy Liu (Aug 22, 2014)

4x4x4 fewest moves

Scramble: D' U' Fw' F L' Fw2 Uw F2 L2 Uw2 B' L' F' R' F2 D' L Uw2 B2 Fw F2 D' Fw2 F U2 L2 R2 Uw Fw2 D Rw2 R D Uw' U2 Rw U' L B2 Fw2

B2 Uw B' Uw2 R2 Uw' - two centers (3)【6】《6》
D' L' U R' Bw2 L Bw' - two centers (2)【7】《13》
Dw2 R2 Dw2 - all centers (2)【3】《16》
-------------------------------------------------
B' U2 B2 U' Bw - three pairs (1)【5】《21》
L' B L D' B D F R F' R' L' F L F' Fw' - three pairs (1)【15】《36》
U2 Lw' U L' U' Lw - all pairs (2)【6】《42》
-------------------------------------------------
Lw U2 Lw B2 Lw B2 Lw' B2 Rw B2 Lw' B2 Lw B2 Lw' B2 Lw' - OLL parity (8)【16】《58》
-------------------------------------------------
R2 D' F D2 F - 2x2x2 block
B2 D2 R2 D R' - another 2x2x2 block
B' L B L' B R B' R' - F2L
L B2 L' - F2L
R' B' U' B U R -OLL
R B R' U2 F' L B' L' B L' F U2 B (0)【39】《97》


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## Prakhar (Aug 24, 2014)

There is no group specially dedicated to FMC for FMCers around the world, so I created this group. The group is new and will take time. FMC enthusiasts are welcome.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422080808012720/


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## Kit Clement (Aug 24, 2014)

Finally, they accepted my application to club 31.  What happens after the scramble switch is particularly ridiculous. 

Done at Indiana 2014.

Scramble: F' R' U' F2 R L D' L' U B2 R F' B D2 F' U2 L2 D2 R2

On inverse:
D U R2 L F' //2x2x2 (5/5)
D2 B2 D2 B2 //2x2x3 (4/9)
F' R' F2 D F' D2 //F2L-1 (6/15)

Switch to Normal:
D' R2 D //F2L (3/18)
F D R D' R' F' R2 //lol (7/25)

Skeleton:
D' R2 D F D R @ D' R' F' R2 D2 F D' F2 R F B2 D2 B2 D2 F L' R2 U' D'
@: B D' F' D B' D' F D (2 moves cancelled)
Final solution: D' R2 D F D R B D' F' D B' D' F R' F' R2 D2 F D' F2 R F B2 D2 B2 D2 F L' R2 U' D' (31)


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## irontwig (Aug 24, 2014)

Nice, but I'm looking forward to cancelling my membership for the second time.


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## qaz (Aug 24, 2014)

Kit Clement said:


> Finally, they accepted my application to club 31.  What happens after the scramble switch is particularly ridiculous.
> 
> Done at Indiana 2014.
> 
> ...



hey we had the same 2x2x3!

scramble: F' R' U' F2 R L D' L' U B2 R F' B D2 F' U2 L2 D2 R2

on inverse:
D U R2 L F' //2x2x2 (5/5)
D2 B2 D2 B2 //2x2x3 (4/9)
on normal: 
R B' D' B R2 //F2L-1 (5/14)
D2 B' D B D R D' R' D2 R D R' B' D2 B R D R' D' //F2L + LL skip (19/33)

solution: R B' D' B R2 D2 B' D B D R D' R' D2 R D R' B' D2 B R D R' D' B2 D2 B2 D2 F L' R2 U' D' (33)

after F2L-1 i was pretty stuck, so i just messed around until i stumbled on an LL skip


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## Benyó (Aug 24, 2014)

Kit Clement said:


> Finally, they accepted my application to club 31.  What happens after the scramble switch is particularly ridiculous.
> 
> Done at Indiana 2014.
> 
> ...



it is funny, how you chose the 'more difficult' way to find your solution
try this instead of switching to normal after move 15:
B R U R' U' B' R2 - 7/22
D' R2 . D - 3/25
insert at . -› B U B' D B U' B' - 8-2/31

it is the same solution but it would have saved you some time


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## goodatthis (Aug 24, 2014)

Just wanted to share an interesting scramble/skeleton. Tips are appreciated!

Also, I would like to see how a more experienced FMCer would go about with a continuation of my 2x2x3, since mine was crap. 

By the way, I basically just went to my timer, got a random scramble, and got this. Unfortunately, columns aren't as extremely useful in FMC as they might seem to be.
Scramble: F R2 D' F' B' L U2 F B2 L2 B2 L2 U' F2 L2 U' R2 F2 R2 
Inverse: R2 F2 R2 U L2 F2 U L2 B2 L2 B2 F' U2 L' B F D R2 F'


L2 B L2 B' L' B D //2x2x3 honestly that square just came out of nowhere when I canceled into a sledge.
F' D R' B R B' D' //F2L-1 
U L F L' F' U' D' F2 L D' L' D2 //to L4C bad, too long 
IF says there's no proper insertions? 

This is what happened if you switch after the 2x2x3 and take a CFOPy approach: (interesting, not very good)
F D' F2 D R' D R // Pair
D' R D R' D' F' D' F //Pair
D R D' F D F2 R F R2 (OLSLLEF thingy) //L3C

Also, can someone tell me how you would write down a final NISS solution using either one or two switches?


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## Cale S (Aug 25, 2014)

goodatthis said:


> Also, can someone tell me how you would write down a final NISS solution using either one or two switches?


You had one switch, so you would take your moves after the switch, invert them, and put them at the end of your solution, like this:
L2 B L2 B' L' B D //2x2x3 
R2 F' R' F2 D' F' D R' D' // inverse of moves to L3C
F' D F D R D' R' D // inverse of moves to second pair
R' D' R D' F2 D F' // inverse of moves to first pair


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## Kit Clement (Aug 25, 2014)

Benyó said:


> it is funny, how you chose the 'more difficult' way to find your solution
> try this instead of switching to normal after move 15:
> B R U R' U' B' R2 - 7/22
> D' R2 . D - 3/25
> ...


Interesting, when I did that solve, I just gave up after seeing the flipped green-red edge and tried NISS first. Not sure why I didn't try performing 6 move OLLs from a few angles.


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## TheDubDubJr (Aug 25, 2014)

Kit Clement said:


> Finally, they accepted my application to club 31.





qaz said:


> hey we had the same 2x2x3!



Yea a lot of people had the same 2x2x2 on inverse. I used the alternate 2x2x3 though :3

scramble: F' R' U' F2 R L D' L' U B2 R F' B D2 F' U2 L2 D2 R2
inverse: R2 D2 L2 U2 F D2 B' F R' B2 U' L D L' R' F2 U R F

on inverse:
D U R2 L F' //2x2x2 (5/5)
D' B2 D B2 //2x2x3 (4/9)
D F' R' F2 D2 F' D // F2L-1 (7/16)
R2 B R' B' R' D' R D R2 // All-2twisted (9/25)

Skeleton on Normal
R2 D' R' D R B R B' R2 D' F D2 F2 R F D' B2 D' B2 D F L' R2 U' D' (25)

First Insertion
R2 D' R' D R B R B' R2 D' F D2 F2 R F D' B2 [F D' B2 D *F' D' B2 D*] *D' B2 D F* L' R2 U' D' // 8-moves cancel 

Second Insertion
R2 D' R' D R B R B' R2 *D'* [*D'* F U2 F' D F U2 *F'*] *F* D2 F2 R F D' B2 F D' B2 D L' R2 U' D' // 3-moves cancel

Solution 
R2 D' R' D R B R B' R2 D2 F U2 F' D F U2 D2 F2 R F D' B2 F D' B2 D L' R2 U' D' (30)


Yay for Optimal
http://if.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/b42ef47290741749d13fb0483a4b5251.cube


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## Laura O (Aug 26, 2014)

After submitting my solution to this week's Weekly FMC Comp I tried to find other finishes and found this:



Spoiler



Scramble: R2 U' D2 L R2 B' D2 F2 L2 R' F' B' D' L F U' L' F2 D' B'

2x2x3: B2 R2 L F R2 U2 B R2
switch and L3C: R U' R' L U2 L D F D' L2

Skeleton: B2 R2 L F R2 U2 * B R2 L2 D F' D' L' U2 L' R U R' (18 moves)
* = D2 B' U' B D2 B' U B

Solution: B2 R2 L F R2 U2 D2 B' U' B D2 B' U B2 R2 L2 D F' D' L' U2 L' R U R' (25 moves)


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## Prakhar (Aug 26, 2014)

Can you explain your continuation after 2x2x3. I couldn't make out


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## mycube (Aug 26, 2014)

Prakhar said:


> Can you explain your continuation after 2x2x3. I couldn't make out



Did you try it on the inverse scramble? There it's easy to understand


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## Laura O (Aug 26, 2014)

Prakhar said:


> Can you explain your continuation after 2x2x3. I couldn't make out



Could you please edit your post and spoiler that again?
That's a solution of a current competition, so we should avoid that anyone who wants to compete in this reads it unintentionally.

To answer your question:


Spoiler



Did you see the switch after the 2x2x3 (maybe if you don't know what that is look here)?
Anyway, I removed the unoriented edge from the FR slot (R U' R') and then it's just blockbuilding.


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## Kit Clement (Aug 26, 2014)

Lots of us re-attempted the Tree Town 2013 scramble last night, because we sucked at FMC then and wanted to see how we'd do now. This was my solution:

Scramble: F2 L2 R2 U B2 R2 D2 U R B F' R' F2 D2 F' R D L2 R2

(Initially premove was B, later came up in NISS)

N: U' F R L' B L U2 F2 (B') //PS 2x2x3 (8/8)
I: B' R B' R' D2 R B //F2L-1 (7/15)
N: (B) R' B' R D' R D R' (7/22)

Skel: U F (@1) R L' B L U2 F2 R' B' R D' R D R' B' (@2) R' D2 R B R' B (22 to 5 corners)

(@1): F' D B2 D' F D B2 D'
(@2): B2 D' F' D B2 D' F D

Final: U' D B2 D' F D B2 D' R L' B L U2 F2 R' B' R D' R D R' B D' F' D B2 D' F D R' D2 R B R' B (35)

Insertions aren't optimal - had to find something in the last 10 minutes and I was happy to cancel 3 moves. If anyone has any advice for me outside of the insertions, especially on the transition from F2L-1 to skeleton, it would be much appreciated.


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## Torch (Aug 26, 2014)

Kit Clement said:


> Scramble: F2 L2 R2 U B2 R2 D2 U R B F' R' F2 D2 F' R D L2 R2



Here's my solution. Found in ~40 minutes.

Premove:R'
L F R U F2//2x2x2
B' D' B' R'//pseudo 2x2x3
D' R' L' D2 L//EO
switch to inverse
B' D B' D//F2L minus 1
B D B D' B' D B' D'//lucked into L3C

Skeleton: L F R U F2 B' D' B' R' D' R' L' D2 L D B D' B D [1] B' D' B' D' B D' B R'
[1]: D2 R' U R D2 R' U' R

Solution: L F R U F2 B' D' B' R' D' R' L' D2 L D B D' B D' R' U R D2 R' U' R B' D' B' D' B D' B R' (35)


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## Ninja Storm (Aug 27, 2014)

I have no idea how to do FMC, but I want to get a decent result at the FMC USA 2014 thing, so I thought I'd practice when I have to be quiet.

I don't know what you guys are talking about with premoves and inverses and NISS and switches and gobbledygook, but I took a stab at this:

D2 B2 U2 R D2 B2 R F2 R B2 R' B R' D B D U' R' F L R

F U2 D2 R’ //2x2(4/4)
U L’ U2 B U’ R’ U’ R//2x2x3(8/12)
L’ U2 B L’ B’//3 F2L pairs(5/17)
L’ U2 L U’// all edges(4/21)

I have no idea where to go from here. Any tips?


----------



## goodatthis (Aug 27, 2014)

Ninja Storm said:


> I have no idea how to do FMC, but I want to get a decent result at the FMC USA 2014 thing, so I thought I'd practice when I have to be quiet.
> 
> I don't know what you guys are talking about with premoves and inverses and NISS and switches and gobbledygook, but I took a stab at this:
> 
> ...



From here you would do a few corner insertions, which are basically just corner commutators that you insert into your solution in order to cancel moves. Honestly I still haven't even got insertions down yet, so I can't be of much use beyond that.


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## guysensei1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Ninja Storm said:


> I have no idea how to do FMC, but I want to get a decent result at the FMC USA 2014 thing, so I thought I'd practice when I have to be quiet.
> 
> I don't know what you guys are talking about with premoves and inverses and NISS and switches and gobbledygook, but I took a stab at this:
> 
> ...


I highly suggest you watch this video. You'll quickly understand premoves and inversions.
http://youtu.be/jVShZKOgFrk


----------



## Kit Clement (Aug 27, 2014)

Stupid easy scramble: D2 L2 B2 U' L2 B2 D' L2 F2 L2 B' D' L' U2 R F2 R U R' D

On inverse:
L' U2 //2x2x2 (2/2)
F R' D //2x2x3 (3/5)
R2 F2 R F' D R2 D' //F2L-1 (7/12)
F R' F' R' //4 corners (4/16)

Skel: R F R F' (@1) D R2 D' F R' F2 (@2) R2 D' R F' U2 L
(@1): F2 D B D' F2 D B' D
(@2): F2 L' B' L F2 L' B L

Final: R F R F D B D' L' B' L F2 L' B L D B' R2 D' F R' F2 R2 D' R F' U2 L (27)

Sadly, that wasn't optimal for my skeleton, I missed out on a 26. Still, I'll take a PB single and mean (31, 35, 27).



Ninja Storm said:


> I have no idea how to do FMC, but I want to get a decent result at the FMC USA 2014 thing, so I thought I'd practice when I have to be quiet.
> 
> I don't know what you guys are talking about with premoves and inverses and NISS and switches and gobbledygook, but I took a stab at this:
> 
> ...



While you did get to 5 corners, this is not a good case -- Two 2-cycles and 1 twisted. That takes three 3-cycle insertions, one to get the twisted corner unpermuted and solve a corner, one to solve another corner and leave three, and then another to solve the rest. If you're going to leave 5 corners, you want to make sure it's a 5-cycle, that way you can solve two on the first 3-cycle and the rest on the second.

Let's see what I can do with your same block:

F U2 D2 R’ //2x2(4/4)
U L’ U2 B U’ R’ U’ R//2x2x3(8/12)
L F' L' F L2 //F2L-1 (5/17)
U L U L' B' U B //5-cycle (7/24)

24 to five corners isn't particularly good, but I'm not really good at FMC either. 

After that, you'd have to learn how to insert. Also, I highly recommend learning NISS, it's surprisingly simple and often effective when you're stuck.


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## Sebastien (Aug 27, 2014)

Kit Clement said:


> Stupid easy scramble: D2 L2 B2 U' L2 B2 D' L2 F2 L2 B' D' L' U2 R F2 R U R' D
> 
> On inverse:
> L' U2 //2x2x2 (2/2)
> ...



you will definitely not like this but...

L' U2 //2x2x2 (2/2)
F R' D //2x2x3 (3/5)
R2 F2 R F' D R2 D' //F2L-1 (7/12)
F R' F' R' //4 corners (4/16)

Solve the rest: (R F R' F')*3 (3 times sexy move)

5 move cancelation.

(Inverse) Solution: L' U2 F R' D R2 F2 R F' D R2 D' F R2 F' R F R' F' R F R' F'

23 moves.

Another alternative finish: 

2x2x2: L' U2 
2x2x3: F R' D2 R D' 
L5C: R' D' F' D F R F (14 moves)

The insertion finder gives me a 24 for that.


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## Julian (Aug 27, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> you will definitely not like this but...
> 
> L' U2 //2x2x2 (2/2)
> F R' D //2x2x3 (3/5)
> ...


Without seeing your post, I was about to post the same thing with the words "I hate to tell you this"


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## TheDubDubJr (Aug 27, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> you will definitely not like this but...
> 
> L' U2 //2x2x2 (2/2)
> F R' D //2x2x3 (3/5)
> ...



I wish I would have looked at his solution in depth last night because I probably would have seen the same thing and facepalmed.

And I also did find that L5C in 14moves pretty shortly after looking at Kits 2x2x3 last night :3


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## Kit Clement (Aug 27, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> you will definitely not like this but...
> 
> L' U2 //2x2x2 (2/2)
> F R' D //2x2x3 (3/5)
> ...



Wow. I definitely see the triple sexy now, but I never would have thought to even try that.


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## Torch (Aug 27, 2014)

Scramble: D' B2 F2 D L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U' R2 F' D' B D L D2 F' U' F U2 

B' L D2 L'//2x2x2
D' F' U' F D//2x2x3
switch to inverse
R U' R'//EO
U F U' F2 U'//edges+1 corner

Skeleton: B' L D2 L' D' F' U' [1] F D U F2 U F' U' R U R'

This leaves me with two twisted corners and a 3 cycle. I can insert the 3 cycle [L2, F R' F'] at [1] and cancel 2 moves, which leaves

Skeleton: B' L D2 L' D' F' U' L2 F R' F' L2 F R D U F2 U F' U' R U R' 

How would I make an insertion for the two twisted corners? Also, was there a better insertion for the 3-cycle?


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## Bubtore (Aug 27, 2014)

I just want to share my solution (of the 2nd scramble of the german forum competition) because of that amazing insertion ! 

2. Scramble ohne Limit :


Spoiler



Scramble // B2 R2 U B2 D R2 D' R2 U R2 D2 B L2 D2 L D' L F R' B F

1x2x2 // R B L2
2x2x2 // F2 D B2
2x2x3 // D' L' D F' D' L D
F2L // U L2 B' # U B
L3C // D L F L' F' D'

# B D' B' U B D B' U'

Solution // R B L2 F2 D B2 D' L' D F' D' L D U L2 D' B' U B D2 L F L' F' D' - 25 Moves


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## G2013 (Aug 27, 2014)

Can someone give me tips?
Scramble: F R2 L F L2 B L' F2 U2 L' R' U' R F R F' L2 F2 B2 L2 F2 R B' L' F'
Inverse scramble: F L B R' F2 L2 B2 F2 L2 F R' F' R' U R L U2 F2 L B' L2 F' L' R2 F'
Premove: B D
U' F2 D F2 L' D' //2x2 and premove D
B' U' R' B' R D B D' R2 B //F2L-1 and premove B
U' F' U' F U2 R U R' F' U F *U* //Edges
*U* B' D B U' B' D' B //Comm with cancellation
B D //Correction
Then insertion

I founded this ones:
(F' D' F U2 F' D F U2)U' F2 D F2 L' D' B' U' R' B' R D B D' R2 B U' F' U' F U2 R U R' F' U F U2 B' D B U' B' D' B2 D - 1 move cancellation
U' F2 D (R' D' L2 D R D' L2 D) F2 L' D' B' U' R' B' R D B D' R2 B U' F' U' F U2 R U R' F' U F U2 B' D B U' B' D' B2 D - worst
U' F2 D F2 L' D' B' U' R' B' (B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U) R D B D' R2 B U' F' U' F U2 R U R' F' U F U2 B' D B U' B' D' B2 D - I must choose either this
U' F2 D F2 L' D' B' U' R' B' R D B D' R2 B U' F' U' F U2 R U R' F' U F (R' D' R U2 R' D R U2) U2 B' D B U' B' D' B2 D - or this

Final solve: U' F2 D F2 L' D' B' U' R' B' R D B D' R2 B U' F' U' F U2 R U R' F' U F R' D' R U2 R' D R B' D B U' B' D' B2 D (42 HTM)

What can I improve? I know there is a loooooot to improve, but how?
Thanks


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## vcuber13 (Aug 27, 2014)

For the edges you could do U' F' U' L' U L U' F U


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## AJ Blair (Aug 28, 2014)

Scramble: L' F2 R2 D2 R' B' U' L' B D2 U2 L' F2 U R D2

Solution:

U F L //1x2x2 Block (3/3)
U B' U' B' F'* L //Another 1x2x2 Block (6/9)
F' D2 //2x2x3 (2/11)
B' L' D L2 D' B //F2L-1 (6/17)
U B D' B' U' D //3 Corners (6/23)

Insert at *: F R' F' L F R F' L 

5 move cancelation

Solution: U F L U B' U' B' R' F' L F R F2 D2 B' L' D L2 D' B U B D' B' U' D 

26 moves


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## vcuber13 (Aug 28, 2014)

AJ Blair said:


> Scramble: L' F2 R2 D2 R' B' U' L' B D2 U2 L' F2 U R D2
> 
> Solution:
> 
> ...



B' L D' B D //3 Edges (5/16)

U F L U B' U' B' F' L [@1] F' D2 B' L D' B D
Insert at @1: L' F B' U B2 U' F' B L B2
Fewest moves: 21. 5 moves cancelled
The final solution: U F L U B' U' B2 U B2 U' F' B L B2 F' D2 B' L D' B D


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## qaz (Aug 28, 2014)

scramble: L2 R2 B' D2 F L2 R2 B' R2 B F2 U' B2 L B2 D2 L F' L' U'

U L2 F D2 R F D2 F2
D' R D
on inverse
F2 B2 R'

14-move F2L, can anyone find a good continuation?

here's what i ended up with (31 moves, not very good)


Spoiler



on inverse
R D' R2 U R2 D R2 U' R
L' B R' B2 L B' L' B2 L R
solution: U L2 F D2 R F D2 F2 D' R D R' L' B2 L B L' B2 R B' L R' U R2 D' R2 U' R2 D B2 F2 (31)


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## Mikel (Aug 28, 2014)

My 47 move solution to the Weekly Competition 2014-35. This tied my PB.



Spoiler



Scramble: L' U2 R2 D' L2 F' U2 F' U' R2 D' R2 L2 B2 U' D2 F2 L2 U

F2 D' B D2 B //2X2X2 (5|5) 
L2 F' U2 L' //2X2X3 (4|9) 
switch to inverse 
F U' F L' U L //F2L-1 (6|15) 
R U' R' U2 F' U' F U' F' U F2 //F2L (11|25) 
R U R' U' //OLL (4|30) 
R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' U2 //PLL (17|47)

Solution: F2 D' B D2 B L2 F' U2 L' U2 F R' F' R U R U' R' F R U' R' U R U R' U R U' R' F2 U' F U F' U F U2 R U R' L' U' L F' U F' (47)


I didn't really know what to do after F2L-1. I couldn't find a good way to orient edges.


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## cubingallday (Aug 28, 2014)

Sorry, I'm really new to FMC, but what does "switch to inverse" and "on inverse" mean?


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## Mikel (Aug 28, 2014)

cubingallday said:


> Sorry, I'm really new to FMC, but what does "switch to inverse" and "on inverse" mean?



You might be able to find better blocks to build by using the inverse scramble instead of the normal. Look up "NISS" (Normal Inverse Scramble Switch) on the wiki.


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## cubingallday (Aug 28, 2014)

Mikel said:


> You might be able to find better blocks to build by using the inverse scramble instead of the normal. Look up "NISS" (Normal Inverse Scramble Switch) on the wiki.


OK thanks, I get it now


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## AJ Blair (Aug 28, 2014)

vcuber13 said:


> B' L D' B D //3 Edges (5/16)
> 
> U F L U B' U' B' F' L [@1] F' D2 B' L D' B D
> Insert at @1: L' F B' U B2 U' F' B L B2
> ...



I'd found that one but too late. I've never done edge insertions before either, so I was afraid to try it during a "serious" attempt.


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## cubingallday (Aug 28, 2014)

I really new to FMC, so with I tried this scramble for my first FMC try: U2 F2 D' L2 U L2 R2 U L2 B2 L U' F' R' U' B L B F R
I got a 45 move solution, which I think is pretty good for my first FMC try.

D F R' U' D B' // 2x2 block (6|45)
L' F' U F2 L2 // 2x3 block (11|45)
D' F' L F L' U2 D // F2L #3 (18|45)
F U' F U F2 L F L' // F2L #4 (26|45)
F' L F L' F' L' R U L U' R D2 R' U' R D2 R' U' R' // LL (45|45)

Any Tips on this solution?


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## Mikel (Aug 28, 2014)

cubingallday said:


> I really new to FMC, so with I tried this scramble for my first FMC try: U2 F2 D' L2 U L2 R2 U L2 B2 L U' F' R' U' B L B F R
> I got a 45 move solution, which I think is pretty good for my first FMC try.
> 
> D F R' U' D B' // 2x2 block (6|45)
> ...



Tip:

Don't DNF your solution.


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## G2013 (Aug 28, 2014)

My solves to the weekly competition:
(I don't know if I should show them...)


Spoiler



B F2 R' L' D' R' D L D' R D F U' F' D2 F U F' D2 F R2 F' L' F R2 F' L' B' L B L' D L D' B' L2 B D L2 D2 L2 D L' B L' B' D L D' B2 D2 F' (52)
B R B' L2 F' R2 L' U2 B' L' B2 L U' B' F U' F' B U' B' U B U' L U2 L' B' R' F R B R' F' R' D B' U B' U' B D' R2 F' U F U' R' (47)
B R B' L2 F' R2 L B' R B2 R' B L F' L' F U2 L' D' L U2 L' D R' F' L2 F R F U F' U L' U2 B' R B L B' R' B U B R' (44)
F' R2 U2 F' D U' R2 D' U R F U F' L' U L U B D' B' U B D B' R B F L' B L F' L' B2 R' B F' D2 R' (38)



Did one per day except monday. I've already sent the 38 moves one, and I wrote the others as a comment of the solve.
Basically I build 2x2, 2x2x3, F2L-1, edges, 1 or 2 commutators, then insertion, all using NISS.


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## cubingallday (Aug 28, 2014)

Scramble: F2 D R2 D' F2 U B2 D2 B2 D' F' D' F' U2 F' D' L R' B' F'‏

F B' R L' D' F2 B' D2 F // Triple-X cross (9|31)
B U B2 U' //4th pair (13|31)
L U' L' D L U L' D' B' //COLL (22|31)
L2 B' U' D L2 U D' B' L2 // PLL(9|31)

PB! (Easy scramble tho..)


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## obelisk477 (Aug 28, 2014)

I have a question regarding 'splits' for FMC (if you could call it that). How much time do you guys spend looking for a decent 2x2x3, F2L-1, looking for insertions, writing down inverse scrambles, checking solutions, etc, etc?


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## porkynator (Aug 29, 2014)

cubingallday said:


> Scramble: F2 D R2 D' F2 U B2 D2 B2 D' F' D' F' U2 F' D' L R' B' F'‏
> 
> F B' R L' D' F2 B' D2 F // Triple-X cross (9|31)
> B U B2 U' //4th pair (13|31)
> ...



With your (very good) start:

F B' R L' D' F2 B' D2 F //Your XXXcross
U B' U' B //All but 4 corners

Run into Insertion finder:

F B' R L' [@1] D' F2 B' D2 F U B' U' B
Insert at @1: F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 D
After the 1st insertion: F B' R L' F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B F2 D2 F U [@2] B' U' B
Insert at @2: U' L' U R U' L U R'
Fewest moves: 24. 5 moves cancelled
The final solution: F B' R L' F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B F2 D2 F L' U R U' L U R' B' U' B



obelisk477 said:


> I have a question regarding 'splits' for FMC (if you could call it that). How much time do you guys spend looking for a decent 2x2x3, F2L-1, looking for insertions, writing down inverse scrambles, checking solutions, etc, etc?


I don't use fixed time splits. I don't know if it's a good idea, because you shouldn't have fixed steps in you solving method/style/approach.
I just try to have some solution written down 5 to 10 minutes before the end.


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## EMI (Aug 29, 2014)

Fun and very easy scramble from this forum: B2 U R2 F2 R2 D' B2 F2 U R2 D2 F D2 F2 U2 R' B' L' B D2 F


Spoiler



Some cool stuff: ["(...)" means apply on inverse] F' R (R2) 2x2x2 - then L B2 D' L D' for F2L-1 in 8 moves
or: same 2x2x2, then continue on inverse: (D2 B2) for a 2x2x3 in 5 moves, continuing with (L B' L' B) for an F2L-1 in 9 moves, and another 8 moves (find those yourself ) for L3C in 17 total. (final solution was 23)


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## G2013 (Aug 29, 2014)

With scramble B2 U R2 F2 R2 D' B2 F2 U R2 D2 F D2 F2 U2 R' B' L' B D2 F
Pre: R2
F' R //2x2x2
L B2 D2 //2x2x3
D L D' //F2L-1 (I noticed that my F2L-1 was the same that EMI posted, but that is just a coincidence. Many of you may find the same solution for F2L-1, because it is too easy)
B2 L' B L B2 U B U' B //Edges
R2 //Correction

IF:

F' R L B2 D' [@1] L D' B2 L' B L B2 U B U' B R2
Insert at @1: D' R D' R D' L D2 R2 U' B2 U D L'
After the 1st insertion: F' R L B2 D2 R D' R D' L [@2] D2 R2 U' B2 U B2 L' B L B2 U B U' B R2
Insert at @2: L' D R' D' R L U' R' D R U D'
Fewest moves: 29. 13 moves cancelled
The final solution: F' R L B2 D2 R D2 R L U' R' D R U D R2 U' B2 U B2 L' B L B2 U B U' B R2


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## Torch (Aug 29, 2014)

Scramble: F' U' R2 F2 U' F2 D R U' F B2 L2 D B2 U2 B2 R2 U' D2 R2 B2 

B R D' B D' B'//2x2x2
F' U2 L F U2 L U//3x3x3
F L2 U' F U//F2L-1
F' D F' R F R' F' D' L' F2 L//L3C

Skeleton: B R D' B D' B' F' U2 L F U2 L U F L2 U' F U F' D F' [1] R F R' F' D' L' F2 L (29)

[1]F' D2 F U F' D2 F U'

Solution:B R D' B D' B' F' U2 L F U2 L U F L2 U' F U F' D F2 D2 F U F' D2 F U' R F R' F' D' L' F2 L (36)

IF says 36 is optimal for that skeleton


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## AJ Blair (Aug 30, 2014)

Scramble: U' R2 D' B2 D2 L2 U' R2 U2 R2 U2 L' B' L' U F' R' B' R2 F U

Solution:

R2 F' U' F'//1x2x2 Block (4/4)
U' F D2 U L'* U' L U' //2x2x3 (8/12)
F D F2 D L' F2 L F' //3 Corners (8/20)

Insert at *: U2 R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2 U

3 move cancelation

Solution: R2 F' U' F' U' F D2 U L' U2 R2 U L2 U' R2 U L' U' F D F2 D L' F2 L F'

26 moves

That makes my last three attempts: 28, 26, 26 or 26.67 Mo3 which is most certainly a PB and one that I am quite proud of.


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## ottozing (Aug 30, 2014)

Weird FMC I did in a Skype call with yearofthewalker and anonymouse. Optimal insertions would have given me a 29 but I had less than 10 mins to do insertions :/

L2 F2 U2 L2 B' U2 R2 B' U2 L2 F2 L' B' F R F2 L2 R' U B R

Inv
i. F' L' (Square)
Switch
n. U L U (2x2x2)
Switch
i. R2 F' R' F (2x2x3)
Switch
n. U' B U (EO)
B R B R2 (F2L-1)
B R' B' R B' R' B R (AB4C)

Skeleton: U L B U "B R B R2 B R' B' R B' R' B" R F' R F R2 L F (22)

22 to 4 corners = lame
hmm ima solve the 2gen spam minus corners and see what happens to corners

Scramble: B R B R2 B R' B' R B' R' B

B' R' B2 R2 B R B' R' (stuff)
then I inverted it (R B R' B' R2 B2 R B) and put it into the skeleton 

Skeleton: U L B U * R B R' B' R2 B2 R B R F' R F R2 L F (19 to 5 corners)

* U F D' F' U' F D F'

New skeleton: U L B U2 F D' ^ F' U' F D F' R B R' B' R2 B2 R B R F' R F R2 L F (26)

R2 F' L2 F R2 F' L2 F (Cancels 2)

Solution: U L B U2 F D' R2 F' L2 F R2 F' L2 U' F D F' R B R' B' R2 B2 R B R F' R F R2 L F (32)


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## Prakhar (Aug 30, 2014)

Can anyone please explain what is meant by domino reduction. Is is better than leaving 3-5 corners and inserting them earlier?


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## porkynator (Aug 30, 2014)

Prakhar said:


> Can anyone please explain what is meant by domino reduction. Is is better than leaving 3-5 corners and inserting them earlier?



I have just answered you on facebook lol...
Copy-paste:

It is a completely different approach; you reduce the cube to be solvable with only <U, D, R2, L2, F2, B2> moves (like a 3x3x2 or "Domino" cube). To do so you need to:
-Orient edges (like in Petrus or ZZ)
-Orient corners (with the U/D color belonging to U/D)
-Place the E layer edges in the E layer (not necessarily in their exact place, just in that layer)
After that you usually look for a "brute force" solution
Example solves: http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/?tag=domino


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## guysensei1 (Aug 30, 2014)

Is it advisable to look for insertions by splitting up half turns?
For example, when there is a U2, do you split it into U U or U' U' to find insertions?


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## porkynator (Aug 30, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Is it advisable to look for insertions by splitting up half turns?
> For example, when there is a U2, do you split it into U U or U' U' to find insertions?


No, you would get the same cancellations withou splitting it up.
At least it never happened to me and I can't think of any case where it would be better.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Aug 30, 2014)

qaz said:


> scramble: L2 R2 B' D2 F L2 R2 B' R2 B F2 U' B2 L B2 D2 L F' L' U'
> 
> *U L2 F D2 R F D2 F2
> D' R D*
> ...



I tried continuing after bolded part and found almost straight away a 22 move skeleton up to L3C:

U L2 F D2 R F D2 F2 @
D' R D
R D B2 D' F2
U B R B' R' U'

Insertion finder says optimal is 28 with a 10 move 3-cycle and 4 moves cancelled: @=F2 D F2 R2 U F2 U' F2 R2 D'. Maybe I'm being slow, but that inserted alg looks weird, can someone explain it to me?


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## tseitsei (Aug 30, 2014)

porkynator said:


> No, you would get the same cancellations withou splitting it up.
> At least it never happened to me and I can't think of any case where it would be better.



Well I'm not good at FMC or anything but at least in theory that's not true I think.

Example:

Starting scenario: Your last 3 corners to solve are in the cycle UBL->RDB->FRD->UBL in some point of your skeleton.
And now let's assume that the next move of your skeleton is R2.

Now if you do R2 and look for insertions you can see that there are now simple 8-move insertions and move on to the next move of the skeleton. Am I right here?

HOWEVER if you do R instead you can easily see that there is an 8-move insertion now starting with R' so that means 2-moves cancel but 1 extra move for the remaining R part of the R2 move at the end of your insertion needs to be added. So overall splitting this R2 to be R R and inserting in between gives a 7-move insertion effectively. 

Of course the insertion could be done by doing R2 and then inserting a A9 type commutator after that(R2 R2 cancels out 2-moves so also 7-moves insertion) but (at least me) many people only check for 8-move insertions I think...


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## porkynator (Aug 30, 2014)

tseitsei said:


> Well I'm not good at FMC or anything but at least in theory that's not true I think.
> 
> Example:
> 
> ...



You can solve that cycle with [D', R U2 R'], 8-1=7 moves, the same.


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## tseitsei (Aug 30, 2014)

porkynator said:


> You can solve that cycle with [D', R U2 R'], 8-1=7 moves, the same.



Well that's true. And I'm an idiot


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## tseitsei (Aug 30, 2014)

Ongoing competition from here: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/

Nice solve for me  the last insertion probably isn't optimal because I had to hurry up 
Criticism and tips are most welcome 



Spoiler



scramble: R2 U' D2 L R2 B' D2 F2 L2 R' F' B' D' L F U' L' F2 D' B'

solution: B2 R2 L F R2 U2 B R' B' U L' B R2 B' L B R2 U2 B R B2 R' B' D L' D' R D L D' R2 U

explanation:
B2 R2 L F //2x2 4/4
R2 U2 //square 2/6
B R' //pseudo2x2x3 2/8
B' U B U2 //pseudo F2L-1 4/12
Now I use premoves R' U to correct pseudoness
B R B2 R' B' //solve edges. L5C 5/17
R' U //undo premoves 2/19

skeleton:B2 R2 L F R2 U2 B R' B' U (1) B U2 B R B2 R' B' (2) R' U 19-moves

(1)=[L': B R2 B'] 2-moves cancel
(2)=[D L' D' : R] 1-move cancels

19+16-3moves =32moves


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## ch_ts (Aug 30, 2014)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> I tried continuing after bolded part and found almost straight away a 22 move skeleton up to L3C:
> 
> U L2 F D2 R F D2 F2 @
> D' R D
> ...



It looks like an A-perm shifted. I shifted that alg around a little until it came to this one: R2 U F2 U' F2 R2 D' F2 D F2 where the corners are all in the U layer. It looks like it might be the 10th one down in the wiki. (I suspected it might be there because of their orientation.) I'm not exactly sure how IF works, it might just have a list of algs that it runs through and tries them one by one. If that's the case, the programmer must have filled its database with a bunch of commutators, other short algs, their shifts, etc

(Aside: does IF work for 2 corners and 2 edges? I couldn't figure how to do this.)


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Aug 31, 2014)

ch_ts said:


> It looks like an A-perm shifted. I shifted that alg around a little until it came to this one: R2 U F2 U' F2 R2 D' F2 D F2 where the corners are all in the U layer. It looks like it might be the 10th one down in the wiki. (I suspected it might be there because of their orientation.) I'm not exactly sure how IF works, it might just have a list of algs that it runs through and tries them one by one. If that's the case, the programmer must have filled its database with a bunch of commutators, other short algs, their shifts, etc
> 
> (Aside: does IF work for 2 corners and 2 edges? I couldn't figure how to do this.)



[U R2 U' R2, f2 y2 U'], slightly awkward comm format (with rotations) but not really helpful, basically it cycles 3 edges by (U F2 U' F2), does R2, then solves the edges differently (D' F2 D F2), then undoes the R2. Weird.

IF doesn't seem to have an option for 2C2E, don't know why it wouldn't though.


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## AJ Blair (Aug 31, 2014)

Okay...wtf

Scramble: B2 U2 F' U2 L2 D2 U L2 D B' F2 D F2 L R B' F2

Premove: U

B' U2 L' // 1x2x3 (3/3)
R' U' B* U2//2x2x3 (4/7)
D F' //F2L-1 (2/9)
D2 F' D' F D //3 Edges (5/14)
U //Undo Premove (1/15)

Insert at *: B2 R L' D2 L R'

Cancels 1 move

Final Solution: B' U2 L' R' U' B' R L' D2 L R' U2 D F' D2 F' D' F D U

20 moves.

That was ridiculous...


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## ottozing (Aug 31, 2014)

More FMC on Skype. This time with Kit Cement and Mr. 69. Got a 12 move skeleton to 7 corners which was kinda wtf

R2 U' L2 D L2 R2 B2 L2 R2 D R2 B U' L B2 F' D U' F' D2



Spoiler: gj



R2 U D B' (EO)
L2 D' U2 R' F2 U2 L U2 (AB7C)

Skeleton: R2 U D B' L2 D' U2 R' F2 U2 & L U2 (12)

& F R F' L F R' F' L' (Cancels 2)

New Skeleton 1: R2 * U D B' L2 D' U2 R' F2 U2 F R F' L F R' F' U2 (18)

* R' U R D2 R' U' R D2 (Cancels 2)

New Skeleton 2: R U R ^ D2 R' U' R D' U B' L2 D' U2 R' F2 U2 F R F' L F R' F' U2 (24)

^ R' B R F' R' B' R F (Cancels 2)

Solution: R U B R F' R' B' R F D2 R' U' R D' U B' L2 D' U2 R' F2 U2 F R F' L F R' F' U2 (30)



Optimal insertions would have given me a 25 but I was running out of time (Still wouldn't have gotten the optimal insertions with more time because that involved using 10 move comms).

Here's the first thing I did on the scramble which I kept for lols



Spoiler: bj



L2 D U F (EO I think)
R U R U' R' F2 (Not quite a 2x2x3)
Switch
B2 U' L U' L' (Not quite an F2L-1)
R B R' B2 R B2 R' (Getting somewhere maybe)
B' D2 U2 F2 D2 U2 (All but 2 twisted corners)

Skeleton: L2 D U F R U R U' R' "F2 U2 D2 F2 U2 D2" B R B2 R' B2 R B' R' L U L' U B2 (28)

"F2 U2 D2 F2 U2 D2"
U2 D2 B2 U2 D2 B2 does the same thing except cancels into the skeleton

Skeleton: L2 D U F R U R U' R' U2 D2 B2 U2 D2 B' R B2 R' B2 R B' R' L U L' U B2 (27)


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## Kit Clement (Aug 31, 2014)

From the new Weekly FMC. I don't force L3C often, and this one took me a lot of moves to do. Great cancellations saved the attempt in the end.



Spoiler: Final Solution



R' U' L' U R' U2 L U L' U' L U' F U2 L' B L B' U2 F' L2 U' L2 B' L2 B D L D' L' B' D2 R2 B2 (34)





Spoiler: Explanation



Scramble: L' B U2 F' R D' F' R' U2 D' B U' R2 D2 B R' L2 B' R2 L2

(on inverse)
PM: R2 
B2 R2 D2 //2x2x2 (4/4)
B L D L' D' B' L2 B //2x2x3+blocks (8/12)
L2 U L2 F U2 B L' B' L U2 F' //F2L+blocks (11/23)
U L' U L U' L' U L U //L3C (9/32)

Skel (on norm): R2 U' L' (@1) U' L U L' U' L U' F U2 L' B L B' U2 F' L2 U' L2 B' L2 B D L D' L' B' D2 R2 B2

@1: L U R U' L' U R' U' (6 moves cancelled)


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## tseitsei (Aug 31, 2014)

My solution for the new weekly comp. Porkynators guide really motivated me to practise and actually learn how NISS work.
So here is my first sub-30  (27-moves)



Spoiler



scramble: L' B U2 F' R D' F' R' U2 D' B U' R2 D2 B R' L2 B' R2 L2
solution: D2 F' L2 F R' D' L D R D' U' B2 U F U' B2 U D F D' F' L2 D U2 L2 F B2 (27)

On inverse:
B2 F' L2 U2 //2x2

Switch to normal (premoves: U2 L2 F B2)
D2 F' L2 //pseudo 2x2x3

Fix pseudoness with premove D (premoves D U2 L2 F B2)
F D' L //pseudo F2L-1 + pair

Again we fix pseudoness with premove L2 (so premoves L2 D U2 L2 F B2)
F D F D' F' //solve edges (and 1 corner) leave 3-cycle+1twistedc

skeleton: D2 F' L2 F D' [1] L F D F D' F' L2 D U2 L2 F B2 (17)

[1]=D R' D' L D R D' [2] L' 
[2]=U' B2 U F U' B2 U F' 

solution: D2 F' L2 F (D' D) R' D' L D R D' U' B2 U F U' B2 U (F' L' L F) D F D' F' L2 D U2 L2 F B2 33moves

6 moves cancel so 27 moves 
Second time ever I used NISS and first time ever I inserted commutator inside another commutator


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## TDM (Aug 31, 2014)

Got bored, did FMC. Scramble from qqTimer; not from a weekly comp or anything.

Scramble: L' F2 U' B2 D F' B' U2 R' L2 U' F2 U D2 L2 B2 D R2 U F2
Solution: U2 F D' L R2 U' L2 U F2 U' B U F2 U' R B F D U2 F' D F U2 F' D' F' R' F D' F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 D' (38 moves)
alg.cubing.net

U2 F D' L U' L2 // 222 (6/6)
L2 U R2 U' L2 * B R B // 223 (8/14)
F D @ F'
F' R' F // EO (6/20)
D # // AB6C (1/21) (yeah, this was luck)

Insert at *: [U F2 U', B]
Insert at @: [U2, F' D F]
Ran out of time and couldn't do the last three corners by an insertion, so insert at #: [D2: [F2, D' B2 D]], which is just a ZBLL.

Final solution: U2 F D' L *U' L2 L2 U* R2 U' L2 U F2 U' B U F2 U' *B' B* R B F D U2 F' D F U2 F' D' *F F' F'* R' F *D D2* F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 *D D2*
= U2 F D' L R2 U' L2 U F2 U' B U F2 U' R B F D U2 F' D F U2 F' D' F' R' F D' F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 D'

After just inserting the first commutator, it's AB5C in 22 moves. This was quite lucky...

That's my fifth FMC solve, so I finally have an Ao5 without a DNS: 48, 48, 48, 35, 38 = 44.67.


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## bubbagrub (Aug 31, 2014)

Ninja Storm said:


> I have no idea how to do FMC, but I want to get a decent result at the FMC USA 2014 thing, so I thought I'd practice when I have to be quiet.
> 
> I don't know what you guys are talking about with premoves and inverses and NISS and switches and gobbledygook, but I took a stab at this:
> 
> ...



I think that last bit should be L U2 L U', no?

So I'm definitely no expert on this, but I reckon that what you have is what would be called a skeleton. It gets you to L5C -- i.e., all is done apart from the last 5 corners. The bad news is that one of those corners is in the right place but needs to be twisted, which is a pain. If you had, instead, a 5-cycle of corners, you could solve this using two 3-cycle commutators. And the idea would be that rather than just tacking them on at the end, you'd find a place where you could cycle those corners in the middle of the solve where some moves would cancel (e.g. if your commutator started with F' and you could insert it after an F, you'd cancel two moves). In your case, I don't know how you twist one corner and do two 2-cycles with a small number of moves, so it may be you'd want to find another skeleton.


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## brandbest1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Someone help me with this scramble? (US Nationals 2014 Scramble 3)

Scramble: B2 L U2 B2 L2 R F2 R' B U' B2 F2 L D' R' B' D2 B2 U 

My solution so far:


Spoiler



F2 D' L2 F R2 D' - 2x2x2
U F2 L U L' - 2x2x3
R U' R' U2 F2 - Pseudo F2L-1


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## obelisk477 (Sep 1, 2014)

I came to an interesting point in a solution where I feel there ought to be a pleasant way to solve it, but cant think of one. Maybe you guys can help.

Scramble: R2 U' D2 L R2 B' D2 F2 L2 R' F' B' D' L F U' L' F2 D' B'

Solution so far : B R2 L U' R' F2 L' R2 F' D2 R' L B R L' B' D B D'


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## Robert-Y (Sep 1, 2014)

B D' B2 D B2 D B2 D' B'

or 

B' D B2 D' B2 D' B2 D B


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## obelisk477 (Sep 1, 2014)

Robert-Y said:


> B D' B2 D B2 D B2 D' B'
> 
> or
> 
> B' D B2 D' B2 D' B2 D B



Nice! Intuition or block comms or what?


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## EMI (Sep 1, 2014)

obelisk477 said:


> Nice! Intuition or block comms or what?



B' D B2 D' insert first pair
B2 D' B2 D B insert second pair with Winter Variation.


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## guysensei1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Random FMC
D2 R2 F2 D' R2 D L2 B2 D U2 F2 R' U' R B L' D2 B' U B 
F D2 U2 R2 D' //2x2x2 (5)
B' L U' L' R' U' R2 B U'//2x2x3 (14)
R' D B' D'//F2L-1 (18)
R' B R' B'//F2L edge (22)
F D B' D B D2 F' R'//rest of the edges (28)

IF:
F D2 U2 R2 D' B' L U' L' R' U' R2 B U' [@1] R' D B' D' R' B R' B' F D B' D B D2 F' R'
Insert at @1: U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R
After the 1st insertion: F D2 U2 R2 D' B' L U' L' R' U' R2 B U R' D2 R U2 R' D' B' D' R' B R' B' F D B' D B D2 F' R' [@2]
Insert at @2: R D' R' U' R D R' U
Fewest moves: 40. 6 moves cancelled
The final solution: F D2 U2 R2 D' B' L U' L' R' U' R2 B U R' D2 R U2 R' D' B' D' R' B R' B' F D B' D B D2 F' D' R' U' R D R' U

I really need to work on my insertions.


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## Kit Clement (Sep 1, 2014)

brandbest1 said:


> Someone help me with this scramble? (US Nationals 2014 Scramble 3)
> 
> Scramble: B2 L U2 B2 L2 R F2 R' B U' B2 F2 L D' R' B' D2 B2 U
> 
> ...



First think I would do is to make that F2L-1 not pseudo. You have two choices - premove of F2 or F. F2 leaves more oriented edges on U, so I'm going to pick that one. After that, you want to solve all the edges, hopefully trying to solve some corners all the way. Whatever is leftover with corners you can take care of with insertions. You don't have many edges oriented, so you should play with FRUR'U'F', it's inverses and mirrors from some angles to see if you can build blocks. Here's something interesting that I don't have time to play with:



Spoiler



Premove: F2
F2 D' L2 F R2 D' - 2x2x2
U F2 L U L' - 2x2x3
R U' R' U2 F - Pseudo F2L-1
B L U L' U' B' - blocks?



NISS is also something worth trying here.


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## tseitsei (Sep 1, 2014)

First time I did corners first solve in FMC. 30 moves 
Scramble is old scramble from weekly comp.

Scramble: U2 L2 D2 U R2 L2 U' B2 D U L2 U B' F2 U' D' B2 F2 L2 D'

F2 U2 B //CO 3/3
U2 F2 U' F2 * // solve corners (no AUFs solved)
R2 L2 D' R2 L2 U2 // solve 3 M-layer edges (opposite centers still swapped)

* = U' D F2 B2 U' D L2 R2 //insert center swap 6-moves cancel

that leaves 2 edge 3-cycles

skeleton: F2 U2 B U2 [1] F2 U' F2 U' D F2 B2 U' R2 L2 U2 15-moves

[1] = U2 D2 B D2 B' U2 D2 [2] F D2 F' 3-moves cancel
[2] = D B2 D' F2 B2 U B2 U' B2 F2 2-moves cancel

solution: F2 U2 B D2 B D2 B' U2 D' B2 D' F2 B2 U B2 U' B2 F' D2 F U' F2 U' D F2 B2 U' R2 L2 U2 30-moves


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## TheDubDubJr (Sep 1, 2014)

tseitsei said:


> First time I did corners first solve in FMC. 30 moves
> Scramble is old scramble from weekly comp.
> 
> Scramble: U2 L2 D2 U R2 L2 U' B2 D U L2 U B' F2 U' D' B2 F2 L2 D'
> ...




Interesting Corners First solve.

I personally would try to find/use 6move edge comms like M' U2 M U2.


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## yoshinator (Sep 1, 2014)

Holy crap I just got a 24

Scramble: B2 L2 D' L2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 F2 U' F' U2 R U2 B' U' B2 F R U
Solution: D2 B' L U2 R F2 R U2 R2 D L D2 L' F L2 F' D L2 U' L D' L' U L

D2 B' L U2 // 1x2x3
R F2 R U2 R2 // 2x2x3
z y2 R U R2 // Now I have both red F2L pairs, and the cross edge sovled
U' B U2 B' U *R U2 R'* // F2L done
*R U2 R'* U' R U2 L' U R' U' L U // J perm, bolded parts cancel


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## lucascube (Sep 1, 2014)

yoshinator said:


> Holy crap I just got a 24
> 
> Scramble: B2 L2 D' L2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 F2 U' F' U2 R U2 B' U' B2 F R U
> Solution: D2 B' L U2 R F2 R U2 R2 D L D2 L' F L2 F' D L2 U' L D' L' U L
> ...



I got a 33 mean. 31 on that scramble.


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## Blake4512 (Sep 1, 2014)

yoshinator said:


> Holy crap I just got a 24
> 
> Scramble: B2 L2 D' L2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 F2 U' F' U2 R U2 B' U' B2 F R U
> Solution: D2 B' L U2 R F2 R U2 R2 D L D2 L' F L2 F' D L2 U' L D' L' U L
> ...



I didn't know nubs could get a 24 on FMC...


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## Torch (Sep 1, 2014)

Scramble: B2 D2 R2 U R2 U' L2 D2 F2 U' B R' F D U2 F' R' F D2 

Premove: F2 R2
F' L F L [1] U2//2x2x2
F D R' F2 R'//2x2x3+some EO 
L' F' L//EO
D' F D' F'//F2L-1
D F' D' F D'//L4C
F2 R2//Correction 
R2 F' L' F R2 F' L F//solve 1 corner (cancels three moves)

[1] R' U' L U R U' L' U

Solution: F' L F L R' U' L U R U' L' U' F D R' F2 R' L' F' L D' F D' F' D F' D' F D' F L' F R2 F' L F (36)

I always do two insertions by solving one corner at the end of the skeleton. Worked out pretty well in this case.


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## brandbest1 (Sep 1, 2014)

HURRAY PB 

From the weekly competition.

Scramble: L' U2 R2 D' L2 F' U2 F' U' R2 D' R2 L2 B2 U' D2 F2 L2 U 



Spoiler: Solution



Normal:
R2 * B' U' B R2 B2 - 2x2x2
F2 R F' L2 F R' - 2x2x3
L B' U B - Orient Edges

Inverse:
L' U2 L2 U L' U2 - All but 5 corners

Insert at *: D F' D' B' ^ D F D' B 
Insert at ^: B L B' R B L' B' R'

Final Solution: R2 D F' D' L B' R B L' B' R' D F D' U' B R2 B2 F2 R F' L2 F R' L B' U B U2 L U' L2 U2 L (34)



Any advice would be appreciated.


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## TheDubDubJr (Sep 1, 2014)

brandbest1 said:


> Any advice would be appreciated.



Look at many of the good solutions to that scramble in the Weekly comp.



Spoiler



Also you had a 6move 2x2x2 which isn't bad but there were lots more efficient 2x2x2s (and continuations).
I found a couple 5move 2x2x2s on normal and a 4move 2x2x2 on inverse.


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## yoshinator (Sep 1, 2014)

woooooow, after the 24, I got a 32, then a 27, giving me a mean of 27.66, which (if I got it officially) would place me 5th in the world 

The 27:
Scramble: L2 D' F2 U' L2 U L2 F2 U' L2 U2 B D2 F R' F' L2 D' F' L2 B
Solution: B' L2 R B' L2 F D L2 R' B' R z y2 R' U B U B' F' U F U2 L' U2 R U R' U2 L

B' L2 R' L2 F D L2 R' B' R // Easy XXcross
z y2 R' U B U B' // F2L minus 1
F' U F // Setup to winter variation
U2 L' U2 R U R' U2 L // Winter variation PLL skip


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## cubingallday (Sep 2, 2014)

yoshinator said:


> woooooow, after the 24, I got a 32, then a 27, giving me a mean of 27.66, which (if I got it officially) would place me 5th in the world
> 
> The 27:
> Scramble: L2 D' F2 U' L2 U L2 F2 U' L2 U2 B D2 F R' F' L2 D' F' L2 B
> ...



Isn't that just an R'? I think you did something wrong in the reconstruction


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## Robert-Y (Sep 2, 2014)

obelisk477 said:


> Nice! Intuition or block comms or what?


I just tried inserting one of the pairs slightly differently to see what would happen and then I could see that the cube was only a simple 5 moves away from being solved


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## porkynator (Sep 2, 2014)

I've finally managed to get a *sub-30 with corner first* (Attila-style FMC) 

Scramble: L D2 L' U2 B2 L' F2 D2 L2 F2 U2 F' D U L D2 U2 B R2 F2 R
Solution: D B' D2 B2 L' B' L' R2 F' L B' D' L' B F' D R U R' U2 D2 L U' F U2 F2 (26)

First I have found a short corners solution:

U L' B2 U' //First layer corners (4/4)
U L2 U' L' U L' U' L2 //CLL, 2 moves cancel (6/10)

Then I went back and modified that solution adding inner layer moves to preserve/solve some edges; I found 2 possible solutions that solved 4 edges together with the corners wit only 2 more moves:

1. D F' R2 B2 D' B' D' U2 F' D U2 B2
2. D B' D2 B2 L' B' L' R2 F' L R2 B2

Disregarding centres, the second one left a double edge swap and a 4-cycle, so it seemed more promising. Leaving the last two moves undone for better continuation:

D B' D2 B2 L' B' L' R2 F' L //Corners -2 moves, and 4 edges (10/10)
B' D' L' B F' D R //4 more edges, B U2 F2 to solve corners (7/17)
U R' U2 D2 L U' //Last 4 edges + centres (6/23)
F U2 F2 //Solve everything (3/26)

2nd and 3rd step are both setup moves + inner layer move + anti-setup; the 4-cycle needs a single quarter slice move, the double swap a half slice move.

Maybe it's a lucky scramble, but I'm happy with this result


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## cubingallday (Sep 3, 2014)

Yay, Tied my pb!

31 moves‏
Scramble: U' D L B2 D' B' U F R L2 F2 U' F2 U' B2 D' R2 F2 L2 U‏

R F B' D' B' L D' B' F U F' U' L2 U L2 D2 // Triple-X cross‏
U2 R' U R // Last Pair‏
F U R U' R' U R U' R' F' U2 // LL‏


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## szatan (Sep 3, 2014)

My mo3 (33 moves) at PLS Marina 2014:



Spoiler



1st scramble: R' U2 L2 B' L D' F' U2 B' U F U2 D F2 U2 B2 R2 D F2 D

R' F U' F' // green cross
D' B2 D // 1st slot
B U B U' // 2nd slot
then i couldn't find anything on green face but i see easy block on orange face
D B2 D' R B2 // F2L - 1
R2 B' R2 B R2 U R2 U' R' B U' B' U R' // forced LL skip (what a funny feeling when CE shows that your moves are optimal)

solution: R' F U' F' D' B2 D B U B U' D B2 D' R B2 R2 B' R2 B R2 U R2 U' R' B U' B' U R' (30)

2nd scramble: L' D' B L' F2 L' B D L' F2 B2 L2 U' B2 D' L2 U F2

F2 R2 F2 // 2x2x2
switch to inverse
D L2 B D2 B // 2x2x3
L D' L' D L2 D' L' // F2L - 1
D L' D L B D B' D' L' *D2 L *// OLL
*L' D* L' D' L' D' L' D L D L2 D2 // PLL

solution: F2 R2 F2 D2 L2 D' L' D' L D L D L D L D B D' B' L' D' L D' L D L2 D' L D L' B' D2 B' L2 D' (35)
i'm really dissapointed this solution because i found 29 moves but i couldn't do it again 


3rd scramble: U F D' R B R2 L' U' R' L' U B' U2 F2 R2 F2 L2 F' R2

L D B' D L' B' // 2x2x2
switch to inverse
U2 R F R' // 2x2x3
switch to normal
F U2 F U' F2 * *U* F' U2 F U // F2L
D R F R' F' D' F2 // all but 3C

* L D L' U2 L D' L' *U2*

solution: L D B' D L' B' F U2 F U' F2 L D L' U2 L D' L' U' F' U2 F U D R F R' F' D' F2 R F' R' U2 (34)


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## yoshinator (Sep 3, 2014)

lol

Scramble: L' U2 L U2 L' B2 R' U2 R2 F2 R' U' L2 B D U B U' F2 D2 L2
Solution: D' B2 Lw2 F R' F' L2 U' B U B2 U' B F U F' U L' U' L R' U' R U' R' U R2 U R' U R U2 R' U2 (34 moves)

Found in less than a minute, written out in less than 5


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## goodatthis (Sep 4, 2014)

Okay so I am doing an official-style FMC mo3, and this was my first solve. So normally, I go about finding a good 2x2x3, then try to blockbuild to L3/4C, or possibly to a short LL case. This time, it was quite different. 

Scramble: L D L R U B' U L R2 D2 U2 F2 L2 B F D B2 L B' U' B L R D2 L'

So this was the 10 move 2x2x3 that I found on the inverse scramble in ~20 minutes.
D F B2 L' F' D2 F R' D R // 2x2x3 (10) 
So after this, I tried building a pseudo F2L (see if you can find it, I built a 1x2x2 on yellow then added the pair) and that didn't work out too well. I couldn't do any 1LLL stuff, so I was trying to do short stuff, and I remember getting an awkward OLL that I did CPEOLL and antisune, but I couldn't find it again. 

So, I finally just convinced myself in the final 4 minutes that I had to write some sort of solution down, so I did an x2 and started doing CFOP. Then this happened.

x2 R U R' F2 // finish XXcross
U' F U F2 L F L' // odd way to pair up these pieces, but it was the first thing I saw, and it looked efficient, so I did it. 
F U' F' // accidental 2x2x1 in LL and insert pair
U2 R U R' // make split pair while preserving square

Now here is the crazy part. Keep in mind I had 3 minutes left, and this was my first time trying the scramble in this fashion. 

U F' U' F U' // insert pair and LL SKIP!!!! 

32 moves, because the last move of the 2x2x3 cancels into the first move of the CFOP finish. In the next two minutes, I wrote down what I did, and then inverted the solution. The clock was a minute past the time I started at, but I didn't know the seconds, so I'm just going to call it an hour. I can't believe this happened, the second unforced LL skip I've ever had. 

I will post 2 more attempts either here or later in the thread as I do them, probably over the next few days.

Also, second 32 move solution, (my current best) and the other one was with a ~10 move 2x2x3 and LL skip as well!


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## guysensei1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Has anyone ever tried doing an FMC-like attempt where you are only given the scramble? No cubes allowed, no picture will be given.


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## dbax0999 (Sep 4, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Has anyone ever tried doing an FMC-like attempt where you are only given the scramble? No cubes allowed, no picture will be given.



No.


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## Tao Yu (Sep 4, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Has anyone ever tried doing an FMC-like attempt where you are only given the scramble? No cubes allowed, no picture will be given.


Actually, I think you could do that fairly easily using BLD methods and by tracking the pieces.

You'd start off by writing out the inverse scramble. Then you'd imagine the cube in your head and the do the inverse scramble, tracking the sticker of your BLD buffer. 

The place that it goes I your first target. 

To figure out your next target, do the same but track the sticker of you last target piece. And so on. Solve using BLD method. 

It'll be hard to get it within the move limit though.


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## guysensei1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Tao Yu said:


> Actually, I think you could do that fairly easily using BLD methods and by tracking the pieces.
> 
> You'd start off by writing out the inverse scramble. Then you'd imagine the cube in your head and the do the inverse scramble, tracking the sticker of your BLD buffer.
> 
> ...



Well then, we should use the time taken to write down a valid solution as your 'score'.


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## Torch (Sep 4, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Has anyone ever tried doing an FMC-like attempt where you are only given the scramble? No cubes allowed, no picture will be given.



Isn't this the BLD FMC that Mike Hughey talked about on Cubecast?


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## kinch2002 (Sep 4, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Has anyone ever tried doing an FMC-like attempt where you are only given the scramble? No cubes allowed, no picture will be given.


Yeah I did it back when I did almost everything on the weekly comp bld. I think it was 2010 sometime. I guess Mike has done it too (maybe that same week)
I read through the scramble ~20 times, tracing one piece in my head each time. I chose the piece that belonged in the spot where the previous piece ended up so that I would get my bld cycles forming straight away. Then I wrote down a bld solution.


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## scottishcuber (Sep 4, 2014)

Sounds like fun.


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## Tim Major (Sep 4, 2014)

dbax0999 said:


> No.



Yes, I think at least two people have, in fact I think they memorized the scramble without touching anything, then put on a blindfold and wrote their solution


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## CyanSandwich (Sep 4, 2014)

Got this crazy scramble from qqtimer with blocks everywhere: F' R2 U2 L D' R F2 L U2 L2 F U2 B L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 B2

I'm a noob so I didn't know what to do with it. I got a 14 move F2l-1 and got stuck.

x' U F' L' R' F' R //2x2x2
y2 U2 R2 U R' F' U' R2 F' //F2l-1

Maybe someone can get something decent with the scramble? I wouldn't mind seeing a nice finish to my start either.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 4, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> Yeah I did it back when I did almost everything on the weekly comp bld. I think it was 2010 sometime. I guess Mike has done it too (maybe that same week)
> I read through the scramble ~20 times, tracing one piece in my head each time. I chose the piece that belonged in the spot where the previous piece ended up so that I would get my bld cycles forming straight away. Then I wrote down a bld solution.



Yes, I did it that week too. Back then, there wasn't the 80 move limit.


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## Benyó (Sep 6, 2014)

scramble: B2 D2 B2 D' U2 F2 D F2 L2 U F L2 B2 U' L' U B' L D2 R2

B F' L U2 R2 U' L . U2 // 2x2x3 (8/19)
D' B2 L B L' B D // all but 5 edges (7/19)

insert at . F B' L' B F' D // 5 cycle, cancels 2 moves (6-2/19)

challenge: find where is the lie in the solution. (it is not a prepared scramble and i didn't use any kind of solver software and the movecount should be fine too, don't worry ;D)


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## goodatthis (Sep 6, 2014)

Benyó said:


> scramble: B2 D2 B2 D' U2 F2 D F2 L2 U F L2 B2 U' L' U B' L D2 R2
> 
> B F' L U2 R2 U' L . U2 // 2x2x3 (8/19)
> D' B2 L B L' B D // all but 5 edges (7/19)
> ...



Wow, 16 moves in ATM


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## TDM (Sep 6, 2014)

goodatthis said:


> Wow, 17 moves in ATM, but the only thing I could find is that the 5 cycle doesn't cancel anything?


D U2 D' = U2


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## Attila (Sep 7, 2014)

Benyó said:


> scramble: B2 D2 B2 D' U2 F2 D F2 L2 U F L2 B2 U' L' U B' L D2 R2
> 
> B F' L U2 R2 U' L . U2 // 2x2x3 (8/19)
> D' B2 L B L' B D // all but 5 edges (7/19)
> ...




B F’ z U, 
R2 D2 l’ B (last 4 of the scramble: B’ L D2 R2),
I write down without rotation: B F' L U2 R2 U' L (which will be pretty good start  )


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## guysensei1 (Sep 7, 2014)

Benyó said:


> scramble: B2 D2 B2 D' U2 F2 D F2 L2 U F L2 B2 U' L' U B' L D2 R2
> 
> B F' L U2 R2 U' L . U2 // 2x2x3 (8/19)
> D' B2 L B L' B D // all but 5 edges (7/19)
> ...



What's the lie? I don't get it at all.


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## CDcuber (Sep 7, 2014)

i am new to fmc and am trying to learn before a comp. Do any of you have beginners tips?


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## Laura O (Sep 7, 2014)

My 27 move solution from German Nationals 2014 (making me national champion ).

Scramble: F2 U2 B2 R U2 B2 U2 F2 U B D R2 U' R' B U2 B L2 F

Pre: B'
F2L-1: U2 F' D2 B U' B R B2 U' B2 U'
L4C: L2 D L' D'

Skeleton: U2 F' # D2 B U' B R B2 U' B2 U' L2 D L' D' * B'

* = D B' U' B D' B' U B
# = B U' B' D' B U B' D

Solution: U2 F' B U' B' D' B U B' D' B U' B R B2 U' B2 U' L2 D L' B' U' B D' B' U - 27 moves


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## G2013 (Sep 7, 2014)

Could anyone describe and give an example solve of the corner first FMC method?
Thanks


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## dbax0999 (Sep 8, 2014)

G2013 said:


> Could anyone describe and give an example solve of the corner first FMC method?
> Thanks



Check out page 35 of Sebastiano's FMC bible.


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## G2013 (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks dbax0999!!

By the way, I have found this amazing lucky solve to the weekly challenge. From F2L-1 to F2L in only one move, and PLL skip!! But I'm too bad, being THAT lucky only gave me a 30 moves solution, but it is my PB!



Spoiler



Scramble: D2 F2 R' U2 F L' R' F B2 D2 L F R2 B L2 U' B' R2 B' L'
Premove: L R

U' B F L2 F' L2 R2 U L2 *R* //2x2x3, Premove R
*R* D2 R' D2 R D' R' //F2L-1
L' //Last pair in 1 move, premove L
F D L D2 L' D F' R' D R D //Optimal OLL and PLL skip
L R //Correction

Final solution: U' B F L2 F' L2 R2 U L2 R2 D2 R' D2 R D' R' L' F D L D2 L' D F' R' D R D L R (30 HTM)


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## Jakube (Sep 8, 2014)

G2013 said:


> Could anyone describe and give an example solve of the corner first FMC method?
> Thanks



Here you can find lots of example solves.


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## G2013 (Sep 8, 2014)

Sorry, but your link doesn't work for me


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## Jakube (Sep 8, 2014)

Then just search for Attila in this forum. Basically every post of him contains a CF solution.


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## G2013 (Sep 8, 2014)

I know, but I don't understand how did he came up with each substep, for example the "modifying the corner solution to solve some edges" substep.


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## IQubic (Sep 9, 2014)

*This is my first ever FMC solve!!!*
I need a continuation for this. 

Scramble: R' U' D2 B' L F' L U F' R L2 F' U2 R2 D2 F L2 B' D2 B2 D2

On Inverse Scramble:

F R' F' R U F R2 F' R2 F' L D2 //2x2x2 (10)
U R B U' B' // 2x2x3 (15)
R' U F2 U' F' R F2 R' F2 // F2L-1 (24)


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## obelisk477 (Sep 9, 2014)

IQubic said:


> *This is my first ever FMC solve!!!*
> I need a continuation for this.
> 
> Scramble: R' U' D2 B' L F' L U F' R L2 F' U2 R2 D2 F L2 B' D2 B2 D2
> ...



You must have a typo somewhere. This is your solve so far, and there's no F2L-1.


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## porkynator (Sep 9, 2014)

G2013 said:


> I know, but I don't understand how did he came up with each substep, for example the "modifying the corner solution to solve some edges" substep.



For that step, I think he adds slice moves (that don't affect corners) to pair up one or more edges to the matching corner; slice moves should preferably cancel 1 or even two moves (in the last case, you are just using a wide move instead of a regular one).
For example, if you have a corner solution like:
U R F2 L'
you can transform it to:
U [E2] R F2 [M'] L'
and without slice moves it becomes:
U' D2 L B2 L'
That's how I understand that step and how I do it, but we should wait for Attila's reply to be sure


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## IQubic (Sep 9, 2014)

This is supposed to be done on the inverse scramble. I'm sure it will work then.



obelisk477 said:


> You must have a typo somewhere. This is your solve so far, and there's no F2L-1.



There is an F2L minus 1. Do a Z'. The F2L is with orange first layer.


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## EMI (Sep 9, 2014)

IQubic said:


> There is an F2L minus 1. Do a Z'.



No...

Edit: ftfy



IQubic said:


> *This is my first ever FMC solve!!!*
> I need a continuation for this.
> 
> Scramble: R' U' D2 B' L F' L U F' R L2 F' U2 R2 D2 F L2 B' D2 B2 D2
> ...


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## Attila (Sep 9, 2014)

Here is an example about corner-edge pairing, during solve corners.

Scramble: F2 U2 B2 R U2 B2 U2 F2 U B D R2 U' R' B U2 B L2 F (German Nationals)


F R D’ R2 D orient (5)
F2 L F2 L F2 L all corners (11 moves),
modifying:
F R D’ R2 d, orient but not lose the 1st pair,
F f, 2nd pair,
L f2, not lose the 2nd pair,
L F’ f’, all corners( - 1 move), 3rd and 4th pairs,
2nd modifying:
F R D’ R2 d F f l f2 L F’ f’ (F R D’ R2 U R L U F2 U F’ B’ - L) solve 2 centres,
3rd modifying:
F R D’ r2 U R L U F2 U F’ B’ L (F R D’ L2 D R L D B2 D F’ B’ L) 13 moves, 5 edges.
I always leave an unsolved slice(here: M), and try to solve the edges on two opposite sides, then I try to find the easiest LSE case.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 9, 2014)

Attila said:


> Benyó said:
> 
> 
> > scramble: B2 D2 B2 D' U2 F2 D F2 L2 U F L2 B2 U' L' U B' L D2 R2
> ...



Here's an interesting question: Under the current regulations, should this be considered a valid official Fewest Moves solve? (E2e)


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## tseitsei (Sep 9, 2014)

Mike Hughey said:


> Here's an interesting question: Under the current regulations, should this be considered a valid official Fewest Moves solve? (E2e)



Good question actually  And another question: If not then how could the person checking the solution possibly notice something like that... And how could we prevent this from happening.

EDIT: Also where is the limit? Here he does 3 moves and then practically inverts 4 last moves of the scramble. What if he did Y moves and would then invert X last moves of the scramble then? What numbers would be OK for X and Y and what should be forbidden?


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## IQubic (Sep 9, 2014)

EMI said:


> No...
> 
> Edit: ftfy



I totally got those moves switched. I'm sorry for that. If you do Z' at the end of my start you get F2L minus 1.


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## Attila (Sep 9, 2014)

Mike Hughey said:


> Here's an interesting question: Under the current regulations, should this be considered a valid official Fewest Moves solve? (E2e)


I'm not sure that my conclusion is correct, just a sudden thought.
I do not know what meant Benyó when he said “lie”(Maybe other thing)
Seeing this solution and explanation, I accept it as completely regular.
But his note made me think, if not prepared solve or computer, where is the lie?


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 9, 2014)

tseitsei said:


> Good question actually  And another question: If not then how could the person checking the solution possibly notice something like that... And how could we prevent this from happening.
> 
> EDIT: Also where is the limit? Here he does 3 moves and then practically inverts 4 last moves of the scramble. What if he did Y moves and would then invert X last moves of the scramble then? What numbers would be OK for X and Y and what should be forbidden?





Attila said:


> I'm not sure that my conclusion is correct, just a sudden thought.
> I do not know what meant Benyó when he said “lie”(Maybe other thing)
> Seeing this solution and explanation, I accept it as completely regular.
> But his note made me think, if not prepared solve or computer, where is the lie?



I guess my personal inclination at the moment is to say that it's okay. It's not an exact inversion of the scramble; there are some pieces that are not affected by the trick. And of course, it's very hard to see; I would imagine that Attila is one of only a few that would be able to spot such a thing - and probably none of us would have seen it if we hadn't been given a reason to look for something like it.

And yes, I also wonder if this is even what Benyó meant, or if he had something else in mind.

But if it is valid, it brings up another interesting perspective as to how one might go about looking for a solution: Apply some portion of the scramble and see if you get something that looks nice, and if so, figure out how to manipulate the rest of the scramble so that the important parts get canceled. Kind of scary, actually.


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## G2013 (Sep 9, 2014)

Wow! So many replies! Thanks, I'll give it a try later  (answering to CF solution)


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## Benyó (Sep 9, 2014)

the ”lie” is a lot more simple than you think. i just switched my steps in order to look like i'm not a lucky bastard but a genius in fewest moves. 

here is a different explanation
scramble:
B2 D2 B2 D' U2 F2 D F2 L2 U F L2 B2 U' L' U B' L D2 R2

B F' L U2 R2 U' L // 7 a quite nice 2x2x2 block but no good continuation. but the green-red f2l is in it's slot... i should insert the last cross piece into the cross an i'll have a nice f2l-1. there are two choices: before the upcoming U2 which adjusts the blocks or after that.
B' F L' F' B // 5/12 just did it before the U2 because otherwise i would get a lot of bad edges.
U2 B2 L B L' B D // 7/19 i did the U2 and almost fell of the chair. i got an LL skip and it is sub20!

but then i noticed that the cross piece insertion was a 6move 5cycle with a canceled move, so i made it look like an insertion.
B F' L U2 R2 U' L . U2 D' B2 L B L' B D // 15 skelekton
. B' F L' F' B D // 6-2 insertion

solution: B F' L U2 R2 U' L B' F L' F' B U2 B2 L B L' B D

i'm disappointed, i was pretty sure someone (or most of the good fmc-ers) will find the trick.
don't always believe explanations, try to understand the solves instead!


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 9, 2014)

Benyó said:


> the ”lie” is a lot more simple than you think. i just switched my steps in order to look like i'm not a lucky bastard but a genius in fewest moves.
> 
> here is a different explanation
> scramble:
> ...



Wow, that's so awesomely hilarious. I must admit - I just assume that since I'm terrible at FMC and you guys are so awesome at it, you probably just know lots of things like 5-edge-cycles that you can actually find. I still suspect you often can, but at least it's comforting to know this particular solve was basically just you getting lucky. A lucky full LL skip - just ridiculous.


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## AJ Blair (Sep 11, 2014)

Weekly FMC Result:



Spoiler



Scramble: D2 F2 R' U2 F L' R' F B2 D2 L F R2 B L2 U' B' R2 B' L'

U' B //1x2x2 (2/2)
F L2 F' //Another 1x2x2 (3/5)
D' R'* B2 //Another 1x2x2 (3/8)
D2 B D' //ANOTHER 1x2x2 (3/11)
B' R D'//F2L-1 or F2L minus two edges on UF and DF (3/14)
F' D' F D F//Another F2L-1 (5/19)
R D R2 D' R' //L3E (5/24)

Insert at *: U D' R2 U' D' B2

Cancels 3 moves

Full solution: U' B F L2 F' D' R' U D' R2 U' D' B D' B' R D' F' D' F D F R D R2 D' R'

27 Moves



So many blocks...


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## tseitsei (Sep 11, 2014)

Is there a way to use IF so that it only searches using 8-move commutators and not longer ones? I would like to know if I have found optimal 8-move insertions, but IF keeps using longer insertions that give better cancellations.


----------



## obelisk477 (Sep 11, 2014)

It organizes the insertion list by commutator length. So just look at the ones up to where the 9-move commutators start.


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## TheDubDubJr (Sep 11, 2014)

obelisk477 said:


> It organizes the insertion list by commutator length. So just look at the ones up to where the 9-move commutators start.



But if the optimal insertion only involves 9 or 10move comms then 8move commutators are not shown which is annoying.

Example:
http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/430d3a8505973aef2618e6709440d499.cube


----------



## tseitsei (Sep 11, 2014)

TheDubDubJr said:


> But if the optimal insertion only involves 9 or 10move comms then 8move commutators are not shown which is annoying.
> 
> Example:
> http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/430d3a8505973aef2618e6709440d499.cube



Exactly this


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## Prakhar (Sep 12, 2014)

AJ Blair said:


> Weekly FMC Result:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Got the same solution but with different insertion. First time tried edge insertions. And its PB


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## okayama (Sep 14, 2014)

My winning solutions from Prague Open 2014.

1st scramble: U2 L' D2 L D2 R2 F2 L U L R' D' F R' D L' F R' B'
1st solution: R' F' U L' B2 F L D' L' U2 L D L' F' U F U F' B2 D' B U' B' D B2 L' B L' D2 B2 L2 (31 moves)


Spoiler



(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B2 L U' F R

2x2x3 block: L2 B2 D2 L B'
F2L minus 1 slot: L B' U * B
All but 4 corners: F U' F' U' F U2 + F'
Correction: B2 L U' F R

Insert at *: U' B' D' B U B' D B
Insert at +: U2 L D' L' U2 L D L'

Optimal insertions according to IF.



2nd scramble: R D F' L2 B R F2 L' B R2 B U2 B' U2 D2 B' U2 D2 L2
2nd solution: L' R2 B' R F R2 L' F L F2 L2 F L F' L2 F2 L' F' L F' L' D F D' F D F2 D L F2 D R' (32 moves)


Spoiler



20 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: D R' (EO)

2x2x2 block: L' R2 B' R F R2

On inverse, F2 L' D2 builds 2x2x3 block, so:

Pre-scramble: D2 L F2 D R'

2x2x3 block: L' R2 B' R F R2
Finish F2L: L' F L F2 L2 F L F' L
LL: L F2 L' F' L F' L', D F D' F D F2 D'
Correction: D2 L F2 D R'


By switcing to inverse with premoves R2 F' R' B R2 L,

2x2x3 block: R D' F2 L' D2
Finish F2L: L2 F L' F L F' L2 F' L

leaves 4 corners, but twisted in place. 

Another interesting start was:

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: R

2x2x2 block: D L R B U2
2x2x3 block: L B2 L2 B2 D2 B

but I couldn't find any good continuation. 



3rd scramble: B' U2 F D2 F U2 B' F2 D U2 F2 L' U' F' U2 L2 R' U B2
3rd solution: D U' R D L U' B2 F2 U' F' U F2 U' F2 U F2 L2 B L' F' L B2 F' U2 (24 moves)


Spoiler



25 min solution.

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: B' U2

2x2x3 block: D U' R D L U' B2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B2 U L' D' R' U D'

2x2x3 block: U2 B
F2L minus 1 slot: F * L' F L'
More square: F2 U' F2 U
All but 3 corners: F2 U' F U F2
Correction: B2 U L' D' R' U D'

Insert at *: B L' F L B' L' F' L

Another skeletons I found gave 28 moves.

[1]
(Normal)
Pre-scramble: F2 B' U2

2x2x3 block: D U' R D L U' B2
F2L minus 1 slot: F' U' F' U F2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F2 U' F U F B2 U L' D' R' U D'

F2L minus 1 slot: U2 B F2
All but 3 corners: L' U2 B L B' L' U2
Correction: F2 U' F U F B2 U L' D' R' U D'

[2]
(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B2 U L' D' R' U D'

2x2x3 block: U2 B
Orient edges: F2 L' U' F' U
All but 3 edges: F' L' F' L' F' L F2 L'
Correction: B2 U L' D' R' U D'



31, 32, 24 = 29, tied AsR, but it's a pity that I couldn't break AsR again although I got 24-move two times this year.


----------



## Jimmy Liu (Sep 14, 2014)

Congratz on that tied AsR, which was counting 31 and 32
There will be a 3 attempts FMC competition in Taiwan at the end of September, and I hope I can break the AsR by luck


----------



## okayama (Sep 14, 2014)

Jimmy Liu said:


> Congratz on that tied AsR, which was counting 31 and 32
> There will be a 3 attempts FMC competition in Taiwan at the end of September, and I hope I can break the AsR by luck



Great, I didn't know there will be 3 FMC attempts. Good luck.
I'd like to go to Taiwan next time, much closer than Europe from Japan!


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## guysensei1 (Sep 15, 2014)

So this scramble I tried was super easy:
U2 B2 R' D2 R2 B2 R D2 R2 U2 B2 U B2 D F U' L' B F2 L2 D'

R' U F2 U' B D' B R2 B'//2x2x3 (9)
F R' D R F' D R F2 R2 D R D'//F2L (12)
U' F2 U F U' F *U*//OLL (7)
*U2* L2 U R U' L2 U R' U F2//PLL (10)

Total: 38 moves. IF says that 35 is optimal if I bothered to find insertions.

EDIT: I found this

R2 B F D//EOline (4)
B' L' R2 B2 L'//2x2x1 (5)
R B R' B R' B2 R//2x2x1(7)
B' L' B L B2 R B' R' B' L' B' L//F2L (all but 3 corners) (12)
That makes 28 moves.

And IF:
R2 B F D [@1] B' L' R2 B2 L' R B R' B R' B2 R B' L' B L B2 R B' R' B' L' B' L
Insert at @1: D' B U2 B' D B U2 B'
Fewest moves: 32. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: R2 B2 F U2 B' D B U2 B2 L' R2 B2 L' R B R' B R' B2 R B' L' B L B2 R B' R' B' L' B' L


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## guusrs (Sep 16, 2014)

okayama said:


> My winning solutions from Prague Open 2014.
> 
> 1st scramble: U2 L' D2 L D2 R2 F2 L U L R' D' F R' D L' F R' B'
> 1st solution: R' F' U L' B2 F L D' L' U2 L D L' F' U F U F' B2 D' B U' B' D B2 L' B L' D2 B2 L2 (31 moves)
> ...



Well done Tomoaki!


----------



## EMI (Sep 16, 2014)

Ok I just had a solution that is quite funny and random, so I decided to post it. I found it playing around after the 1-hour-limit.
Scramble (from here: http://speedcube.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=3912&pid=83798#pid83798):
B' U R' L2 F2 L D B' U B2 R2 U2 R U2 L D2 R' U2 D2 R

Now, at the beginning I found this nice start:
D' R2 D' B' F U' R2
Seven moves for a pseudo-2x2x3.
Here I switched, and to orient two edges I did U' R' (instead of just R' to solve the pseudoness). This creates two pairs.
No I continued on the normal scramble with premoves R U. But I modified the last two moves of my 2x2x3 block:
D' R2 D' B' F D' U F D
Many blocks  If you are following, please try to solve from here. Maybe add another F2 as premove?
I tried a bit around and found the following continuation: (I noticed that it is easier to find when you add F2 as a premove, btw)
U2 R' F' B U2 B' F'
which results in three unsolved pairs. A commutator can be inserted between the last two moves: B R' U' R' U R B' R
So the final solution is: D' R2 D' B' F D' U F D U2 R' F' B U2 R' U' R' U R B' R F' R U


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## BQ (Sep 18, 2014)

okayama said:


> Great, I didn't know there will be 3 FMC attempts. Good luck.
> I'd like to go to Taiwan next time, much closer than Europe from Japan!


How about coming to China? There's a competition on Oct 1~3th with 3 FMC attempts


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## Benyó (Sep 18, 2014)

okayama said:


> 2nd scramble: R D F' L2 B R F2 L' B R2 B U2 B' U2 D2 B' U2 D2 L2
> 
> By switcing to inverse with premoves R2 F' R' B R2 L,
> 
> ...



are you sure it wouldn't worth a try to find some insertions? the first two commutators might have been done in like 3-4 moves since you are basically free to do any of the soooooooo many possibilities


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## EMI (Sep 18, 2014)

Benyó said:


> are you sure it wouldn't worth a try to find some insertions? the first two commutators might have been done in like 3-4 moves since you are basically free to do any of the soooooooo many possibilities



Well 20 moves isn't too good for two insertions already, I personally wouldn't do three insertions here...


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## Benyó (Sep 18, 2014)

EMI said:


> Well 20 moves isn't too good for two insertions already, I personally wouldn't do three insertions here...



yes, usually me neither, but that scramble was just terrible. for example i've tried everything i could and could only find a 38 moves sune pllsikp. a 20 move skelekton with 4 twisted corners would be awsome. and i think Tomoaki was able to do a sub12 move insertion if it was possible. i don't know how many time did he have left but if it was around 15-20 minutes i would have definitely tried it. and there is a difference between insertion and insertion


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## okayama (Sep 18, 2014)

BQ said:


> How about coming to China? There's a competition on Oct 1~3th with 3 FMC attempts



Aghhhhh, absolutely like to go but I cannot go on weekdays during the univ semester... tough.
Hope next time!


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## guysensei1 (Sep 18, 2014)

Benyó said:


> yes, usually me neither, but that scramble was just terrible. for example i've tried everything i could and could only find a 38 moves sune pllsikp. a 20 move skelekton with 4 twisted corners would be awsome. and i think Tomoaki was able to do a sub12 move insertion if it was possible. i don't know how many time did he have left but if it was around 15-20 minutes i would have definitely tried it. and there is a difference between insertion and insertion


IF gives 32 for optimal insertions to solve the 4 corners
L' R2 [@1] B' R F R2 L' F L2 F L' F' L F' L2 D2 L F2 D R'
Insert at @1: R' F2 R B' R' F2 R B
After the 1st insertion: L' R F2 R B' R' F2 R2 F R2 L' F L2 F [@2] L' F' L F' L2 D2 L F2 D R'
Insert at @2: F2 U B U' F2 U B' U'
After the 2nd insertion: L' R F2 R B' R' F2 R2 F R2 L' F L2 F' [@3] U B U' F2 U B' U' L' F' L F' L2 D2 L F2 D R'
Insert at @3: F L2 F' R' F L2 F' R
Fewest moves: 32. 12 moves cancelled
The final solution: L' R F2 R B' R' F2 R2 F R L' F L2 F' R U B U' F2 U B' U' L' F' L F' L2 D2 L F2 D R'


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## G2013 (Sep 18, 2014)

How do would you do EO in this case?


Setup: R' D2 L F' L' D2 R' B R' B2 R B R2 U'


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## tseitsei (Sep 18, 2014)

G2013 said:


> How do would you do EO in this case?
> 
> 
> Setup: R' D2 L F' L' D2 R' B R' B2 R B R2 U'



I wouldn't. I would find another F2L-1 to avoid such a horrible case...


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## Sebastien (Sep 18, 2014)

G2013 said:


> How do would you do EO in this case?
> 
> 
> Setup: R' D2 L F' L' D2 R' B R' B2 R B R2 U'



Unless THIS is the scramble, you will have a certain way to that point and hence certain possibilities to end up with a ways better result, maybe even without additional moves.


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## AvGalen (Sep 19, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> Unless THIS is the scramble, you will have a certain way to that point and hence certain possibilities to end up with a ways better result, maybe even without additional moves.


If you cannot avoid such a case you can play around with premoves (F or R' or a combination of the two) or you can "hope for some luck by playing around with the pair"
U F' (line up)
L' (orient)
U' B' (orient and attach)
U B (U') L (U) F (without the U'U it gives a nice OLL but with orients everything)

R B U2 B' R' U2 R' F R F' is another easy pair + orient 

But if you want to have some fun you could do F' L2 U2 F' L' F U2 L2 F U' to make a different F2L and only leave 3 corners (this one looks hard to find, but if you do F' L' your cube is full of blocks


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## obelisk477 (Sep 19, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> But if you want to have some fun you could do F' L2 U2 F' L' F U2 L2 F U' to make a different F2L and only leave 3 corners (this one looks hard to find, but if you do F' L' your cube is full of blocks



If we're playing with this, using your F' L' idea...

F' L' U2 L F // pairs
U' R U' R' // 3 remaining pairs
F R Bw' R' F' R Bw R' // block commutator


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## AvGalen (Sep 19, 2014)

obelisk477 said:


> If we're playing with this, using your F' L' idea...
> 
> F' L' U2 L F // pairs
> U' R U' R' // 3 remaining pairs
> F R Bw' R' F' R Bw R' // block commutator


Much better. My FMC is rusty, especially sat 3 at night


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## G2013 (Sep 19, 2014)

Scramble: R2 F U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B' D B' L2 D L' B F D F

Any tips? I know there are a lot of things to improve. I don't think blockbuilding is THAT important to improve now. Instead, I think that the moves from F2L-1 to skeleton need to be improved.

Solve:
Premove: F
D' B' //Obvious 2x2
L F U F U2 //2x2x3
F D F' D' //F2L-1, and I don't like that corner there, so I transformed it into pseudo F2L-1, so that's premove F
D' L D L' F L F' //EO
D' L2 D L //Last pair+L4C

Skeleton: D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D L D L' F L F' D' L2 D L F
Final solve: 
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F (B D' B' U2 B D B' U2) L F' D' L2 D L F
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F B D' B' U2 (R' F' R B2 R' F R B2) B D B' U2 L F' D' L2 D L F
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F B D' B' U2 R' F' R B2 R' F R B' D B' U2 L F' D' L2 D L F (37 HTM, 1 cancellation)


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## irontwig (Sep 19, 2014)

G2013 said:


> Scramble: R2 F U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B' D B' L2 D L' B F D F
> 
> Any tips? I know there are a lot of things to improve. I don't think blockbuilding is THAT important to improve now. Instead, I think that the moves from F2L-1 to skeleton need to be improved.
> 
> ...



After F2l-1 you can do D' L' D L U L U' L' U' F U to leave three edges, IF gives 27 moves with optimal insertions.


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## G2013 (Sep 19, 2014)

Can't I do 
D' L' D B L B' L' B' U B?

IF gives (skeleton: D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L' D B L B' L' B' U B U' L F)

D' B' L [@1] F U F U2 F D F' D2 L' D B L B' L' B' U B U' L F
Insert at @1: L2 D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F
Fewest moves: 29. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: D' B' L' D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F2 U F U2 F D F' D2 L' D B L B' L' B' U B U' L F

Anyway, your option is better.

I never would have tried for a skeleton that leaves edges, but that's a good option.


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## Cale S (Sep 20, 2014)

My solution for the weekly FMC:



Spoiler



scramble: D B2 R D F B2 D U2 L U F2 D U2 B2 R B U' R L' D

premoves: B' R2
D L F' R' D * R D' // 2x2x2 (7/7)
B' L U L' B *R* // 2x2x3 (6/13)
*R'* U R // EO (3-2/14)
U' B U' B' U2 B2 // add square (6/20)
R' U' R U' R' U' R U2 R' U R U' // to L3C (12/32)
B' R2 // undo premoves (2/34)
Insert at *: [D2, R U' R']

Final solution: D L F' R' D' R U' R' D2 R U D' B' L U L' B U R U' B U' B' U2 B2 R' U' R U' R' U' R U2 R' U R U' B' R2 (39)
alg.cubing.net
IF says insertion was optimal



What are some things I could improve on?


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## Prakhar (Sep 20, 2014)

G2013 said:


> Scramble: R2 F U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B' D B' L2 D L' B F D F
> 
> Any tips? I know there are a lot of things to improve. I don't think blockbuilding is THAT important to improve now. Instead, I think that the moves from F2L-1 to skeleton need to be improved.
> 
> ...


Using the scramble, I found this.
Premove F2
D L2 D' //2x2x1
F2 L2 D2 F B' //Psuedo 2x2x3(F2 to fix}
*B'* U2 B L' U' L' //F2l-1
*L'* U L //Another 2x2x1
U' L' U' L U' //L3C

Skeleton- D L2 D' F2 L2 D2 F B2 U2 B L' U' L2 U + L U' L' U' L U'
Insert at +: U' F D2 F' U F D2 F'

2 moves cancel.
IF says insertion optimal.

Tips for me too.


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## Benyó (Sep 20, 2014)

my 30 move solution at Slovakian Open

scramble: U2 L2 F2 D2 F2 U B2 U' R' F D' B L' R' F2 U' L2 R2 B2
solution: D' U2 R U2 L' U' R' U L U D B U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B F' U F R F' L2 F D2 L' B' U D'

on inverse:
D U' B L D2 F' L2 F // 8 - some blocks, but couldn't insert the last edge into the 2x2x3
R' F' U' F // 4/12 - EO + blocks
B' U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B' // 7/19 - 2x2x3 + a lot more blocks + place DR and BR edges
U2 . R U' R' U2 // 5/24 - all but 4 corners

this isn't very promising at all but i wanted a not too bad backup solution so i searched for insertions

. D' R U' R' D R U R' // 8-6/26 - if you look at carefully, it could be an f2l executed like a non-matching pair

skelekton on the normal scramble:
D' U2 R U : R' U2 D
B U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B
F' U F R F' L2
F D2 L' B' U D'

: U L' U' R' U L U' R // 8-4/30

10 moves cancelled out of 16. it seemed like an extremely hard scramble but the ridiculously lucky insertions saved me


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## irontwig (Sep 20, 2014)

Benyó said:


> it seemed like an extremely hard scramble but the ridiculously lucky insertions saved me



Wasn't that bad:

L2 D2 L' F D2 F D F' D2 F' D' F2 L' F' L2 D' R D2 F L' B' U (22)

Premoves: R L D2 F L' B' U (2x2x3 on the inv)

L2 D2 L' F 
D2 F D F'
D2 F' D' F2 L' F' L2 D' L'


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## bubbagrub (Sep 21, 2014)

I just got my PB FMC result (33) for the reddit competition, so I thought I'd post it here. 

Scramble: B2 D B2 U' R2 D' F2 D L2 U R2 B F' R' U R2 B' L F' U2 F
I found nothing on that scramble, so I tried the reverse scramble and immediately found a way to get to F2L - 1 in 14 moves:

U F' D' * B (4/4)
U F D2 (7/7)
L B ** U B2 (4/11)
F' L' F (3/14)

Then I didn't really know what to do, but eventually found a way to get to L5C fairly simply:

L U L' F R U R' U' F' U2 (10/24)

Then I found two insertions that cancelled a total of 7 moves (and later, checked on insertion finder, and it said these were optimal):

** (B') D B U B' D (B) (U') (3/27)
* R' F' R B R' F R (B') (6/33)

So I'm guessing better FMCers than me will find a better way to continue after that 14th move...?


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## Benyó (Sep 21, 2014)

irontwig said:


> Wasn't that bad:
> 
> L2 D2 L' F D2 F D F' D2 F' D' F2 L' F' L2 D' R D2 F L' B' U (22)
> 
> ...



as i said it seemed like a hard one, but i was wrong


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## G2013 (Sep 22, 2014)

Weekly challenge solve:



Spoiler: Nobody will copy my solve because: who wants to copy a 37 moves solve?



D2 F2 U' R' D2 L' B' U' L2 F R B R' U' B' D2 U' L' U L'

Premove: R' U'

R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 //2x2x3
U' B' R B R2 B' R2 B2 U2 B' //Blocks everywhere, premove R' U' found
R' U R U' //4 corners left

Skeleton: R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R B R2 B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (27)
Final solve: R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' L' D2 L U' L' D2 L (37, with 2 insertons and 6 cancellations, but somehow they reduce 8 moves instead of 6...)

Those are the insertions I've found:
First: 
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R (R F2 R' B R F2 R' B') B R2 B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' 
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (31, 4 cancellations)

Second(s):

R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' (U' B' U F2 U' B U F2) B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U'
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' (D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R) R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U'
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R (L D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U2) U' R' U'
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (U L' D2 L U' L' D2 L )

R2 B' L' F R D L B' U2 B' U F2 U' B U F2 B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (38, 1 cancellation.)
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (38, 1 cancellation.)
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R L D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U R' U' (38, 1 cancellation.)
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' L' D2 L U' L' D2 L (37, 2 cancellations.)

I used the last one, IF says 35 is optimal for this skeleton.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 22, 2014)

Okay, this is just too weird. My solve last week for the Weekly FMC was exactly identical to Porkynator's. Including sub-optimal insertions. What are the odds??? I feel like it was my best solve ever (24 moves!), though, so I'm still proud of it even if it was obvious enough for someone else to find exactly the same solution.



Spoiler



Scramble: D B2 R D F B2 D U2 L U F2 D U2 B2 R B U' R L' D
Solution: U B U B2 U2 L2 U L' U' R' U L2 U' R U2 L2 U' R' U L2 U' B' L2 U

2x2x2: premoves R' + B' L2 U (found with inverse scramble)
2x2x3 and lots of pairs: U B U B2
all but 4 corners!: U2 L2 U L .
insert at .: L2 U' R' U L2 U' R U
insert at +: R U L2 U' R' U L2 U'

Wow - 12 move skeleton with all but 4 corners! At first I was disappointed with the insertions, but after I was done, I tried running it in insertion finder and the best it found was 23 moves - only one better than mine. I'm thrilled with this solve!


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## G2013 (Sep 22, 2014)

Unveliebable!! I've never heard or seen something like that! By the way, congratulations. I don't know how to calculate the probabilities for that.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 22, 2014)

G2013 said:


> Unveliebable!! I've never heard or seen something like that! By the way, congratulations. I don't know how to calculate the probabilities for that.



I admit I was being facetious asking about the odds.  And thank you.


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## G2013 (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm getting a lot better at FMC; shall I open a new account at the Dadams' Weekly Challenge site, so my statistics improve? Because on my current profile my worst solves are 54, 48, 48, 47, 47... and they don't help. But I don't want to lose my 30 moves solve... What shall I do?


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 22, 2014)

G2013 said:


> I'm getting a lot better at FMC; shall I open a new account at the Dadams' Weekly Challenge site, so my statistics improve? Because on my current profile my worst solves are 54, 48, 48, 47, 47... and they don't help. But I don't want to lose my 30 moves solve... What shall I do?



If I were you, I'd want to keep the single account indefinitely, and perhaps hope that dadams eventually adds statistics for running averages of X (3, 5, 12, etc.). So that way you won't have to lose your history but can see a more representative ranking.

I'm in a similar situation, although my difference isn't quite as dramatic as yours.


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## porkynator (Sep 23, 2014)

Mike Hughey said:


> Okay, this is just too weird. My solve last week for the Weekly FMC was exactly identical to Porkynator's. Including sub-optimal insertions. What are the odds??? I feel like it was my best solve ever (24 moves!), though, so I'm still proud of it even if it was obvious enough for someone else to find exactly the same solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is actually the second time it happens to me: once I've found the same solution as okayama in a no-time-limit on fmc.mustcube.net  I think it was a 22.


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## dbax0999 (Sep 23, 2014)

porkynator said:


> This is actually the second time it happens to me: once I've found the same solution as okayama in a no-time-limit on fmc.mustcube.net  I think it was a 22.



It's actually happened to you three times, you just don't know it yet! Batista found the same solution as you for this week's scramble.


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## guysensei1 (Sep 23, 2014)

I got this... Interesting blockbuild.

B L2 F D2 U2 L2 F L2 B2 D2 B' D2 F2 L' U B F2 D' B2 D U R 

B2 D' F' B//1x2x3
F' D2 F R2//2x2x3
F' L' F//square
U L' U'// uhh, this thing is kind of cool. Any names for this type of block?

Is this just a terrible way to go, or is there a good continuation from here?


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## ottozing (Sep 23, 2014)

Everything looked good except those last 3 moves. Instead, add either the premove U2 or U' and try for either a 3-5 corner skeleton, or an easy F2L>LL combo.


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## okayama (Sep 23, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> I got this... Interesting blockbuild.
> 
> B L2 F D2 U2 L2 F L2 B2 D2 B' D2 F2 L' U B F2 D' B2 D U R
> 
> ...



5 min skeleton based on your start.

Pre-scramble: L

1x2x3 block: B2 D' F' B
2x2x3 block: F' D2 F R2
More c/e pair: U' L'
More square: F U F'
Finish F2L: L U2 L
All but 3 corners: U2 F' L' U' L U F


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## obelisk477 (Sep 23, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> I got this... Interesting blockbuild.
> 
> B L2 F D2 U2 L2 F L2 B2 D2 B' D2 F2 L' U B F2 D' B2 D U R
> 
> ...



You could add an L2 at the end, and then pre-move L2, leaving you with F2L-1.


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## G2013 (Sep 23, 2014)

Let's see what do I get
B L2 F D2 U2 L2 F L2 B2 D2 B' D2 F2 L' U B F2 D' B2 D U R
Premove: D2
F' D F B D //2x2 Premove D2
L2 F U' L' U2 //2x2x3
U' F U2 L U' //EO

Now I could do L' F2 L' F2 L' //6 corners left
But that are too many insertions... so instead

On inverse scramble:
L2 F L' F2 L F' //Pair

From here I don't see anything good...


----------



## wontolla (Sep 24, 2014)

Hi guys. I am going to participate on a FMC competition and I am not sure if these kind of stickers are allowed:



The regulations say: 

E3) The competitor may use the following objects during the attempt. Penalty for using unauthorised objects: disqualification of the attempt (DNF).
...
E3c) Coloured stickers (self-supplied).

I am not sure if they mean "cube stickers" or "any kind of sticker". I just don't want to show up with my stationery stickers and they don't let me use them.


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## Prakhar (Sep 25, 2014)

Has it happened to anyone that he cancelled more moves than the inserted commutator. Example, you inserted a 8 move commutator and it cancelled 8+ moves?


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## EMI (Sep 25, 2014)

wontolla said:


> Hi guys. I am going to participate on a FMC competition and I am not sure if these kind of stickers are allowed:
> 
> View attachment 4542
> 
> ...



You can use those


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## EMI (Sep 25, 2014)

Prakhar said:


> Has it happened to anyone that he cancelled more moves than the inserted commutator. Example, you inserted a 8 move commutator and it cancelled 8+ moves?



I just found an 8/8 cancellation, however there is a second insertion: http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=1746&pid=162824#pid162824
Scramble: L2 B2 D2 F2 D' B2 U' B2 D' B2 F2 R U' F U' B2 F2 L' D
Skeleton: L . B2 D' F' D U : F2 B' R2 F R2 B D R D' L2
. = D' F' D B2 D' F D B2 [8-8/16]
: = D' F' U2 F D F' U2 F [8-1/23]
I think cancelling more than 8 moves for an 8 move insertion is unrealistic (but possible). It would mean that you didn't see the shorter and better skeleton.


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## kinch2002 (Sep 25, 2014)

Prakhar said:


> Has it happened to anyone that he cancelled more moves than the inserted commutator. Example, you inserted a 8 move commutator and it cancelled 8+ moves?


This will only happen if you have been 'stupid' in your skeleton 
I think 7/8 move 'cancellations' can usually be spotted easily during the skeleton as well (although you'd never think of them as such when you do them).


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## guysensei1 (Sep 25, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> This will only happen if you have been 'stupid' in your skeleton
> I think 7/8 move 'cancellations' can usually be spotted easily during the skeleton as well (although you'd never think of them as such when you do them).



Or, your LL could be antisune+ Na perm.
Because one of the algs for Na starts with R U R' U R U2 R'...... effectively cancelling the entire antisune.


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## G2013 (Sep 25, 2014)

I think that if you cancelled more than 8 moves the skeleton needs to be something like
(The dots are moves that aren't important in this example)
... B R U' R' D R U R' D' B' ...
Then you found the insertion
... B * R U' R' D R U R' D' B' ...
*=D R U' R' D' R U R'
So now your solve is
... B D R U' R' D' R U R' R U' R' D R U R' D' B' ...
And cancells into
... ... (18 cancellations)


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## kinch2002 (Sep 25, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Or, your LL could be antisune+ Na perm.
> Because one of the algs for Na starts with R U R' U R U2 R'...... effectively cancelling the entire antisune.


Where's the inserted commutator?



G2013 said:


> I think that if you cancelled more than 8 moves the skeleton needs to be something like
> (The dots are moves that aren't important in this example)
> ... B R U' R' D R U R' D' B' ...
> Then you found the insertion
> ...


Like I said, you must have done something stupid to get >8 moves cancellation


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## Kit Clement (Sep 25, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> Like I said, you must have done something stupid to get >8 moves cancellation



If your skeleton is to two twisted corners, cancellations like this are somewhat common. In that case, it just means that you didn't see a different skeleton.


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## kinch2002 (Sep 25, 2014)

Kit Clement said:


> If your skeleton is to two twisted corners, cancellations like this are somewhat common. In that case, it just means that you didn't see a different skeleton.


Have you got any examples of this? >8 moves, not 8 moves. I can see how 8 movers can be missed during the skeleton, although I think they're all quite possible to find still.


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## Kit Clement (Sep 25, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> Have you got any examples of this? >8 moves, not 8 moves. I can see how 8 movers can be missed during the skeleton, although I think they're all quite possible to find still.



Nope, never >8. I've seen two with 8 move cancellations on scrambles that I've done with others, but they were not my attempt. Never had the chance to work with two twisted myself


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## irontwig (Sep 25, 2014)

I do think Okayama has done a 8+ move cancellation once.

Edit, found it: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...eekly-competition-2010-21&p=385945#post385945


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## AJ Blair (Sep 26, 2014)

My 27 move solution from this week's competition:



Spoiler



Scramble: D2 F2 U' R' D2 L' B' U' L2 F R B R' U' B' D2 U' L' U L'

Premove: L'
R F' U' F' //2x2x1 (4/4)
D2 U2 R' D F U //2x2x3 (6/10)
L2 //F2L-1 (1/11)
D' F' D' F D' L D *L'* //F2L (8-1/18)
*L'* F L2 B' L2 F' L2 B* L'* //PLL Skip (9-1/26)
*L'* //Undo Setup move (1/27)



The PLL skip was really lucky of course, as I found a solution with less than 10 minutes remaining. I didn't have the time to really search for anything better.

A 12 move F2L-1 is really nice though. So I was wondering if anyone else could try to find anything else off if it?


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## TheDubDubJr (Sep 26, 2014)

Kit Clement said:


> If your skeleton is to two twisted corners, cancellations like this are somewhat common. In that case, it just means that you didn't see a different skeleton.





kinch2002 said:


> Have you got any examples of this? >8 moves, not 8 moves. I can see how 8 movers can be missed during the skeleton, although I think they're all quite possible to find still.



An Official example of one Kit was talking about. (only cancels 8-moves though) http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=1010875&viewfull=1#post1010875

The first insertion was at the start of the (inverse) skeleton so I don't think anyone would have seen that. 
I think it really only gets stupid when the insertion that cancels a lot of moves is at the end of the skeleton.


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## Prakhar (Sep 26, 2014)

I got a 9 move psuedo F2L-1 (10 with premove) and the final pair made on inverse. But no other edges oriented. I found a 27 mover. 

Should I continue on it or find something else?


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## Prakhar (Sep 26, 2014)

irontwig said:


> I do think Okayama has done a 8+ move cancellation once.
> 
> Edit, found it: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...eekly-competition-2010-21&p=385945#post385945



Thanks. That was what I was talking about. This proves that insertions can sometimes make the solution shorter than the scramble.


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## kinch2002 (Sep 26, 2014)

Interesting! 9 move cancellation (it says 11 but 2 are nothing to do with the insertion). The reason you can't see this while forming the skeleton is due to the NISS, so that's something I didn't think of. But you should still see the final solution if you go through the linear skeleton, and look to finish the cube instead of just leave 3 corners


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## guysensei1 (Sep 26, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> Where's the inserted commutator?



Oh dang, I thought it was just about most moves cancelled.


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## Prakhar (Sep 26, 2014)

Scramble- R' F' U B2 U2 D' L U2 D B' U B2 U2 D F2 R2 D' B2 L2 U D2
Solution- L' U2 L' B2 U2 B F2 R F' U F U' F U' F U F L F' L' F2 U' F2 L' F' L U L' F L R2 U (32 HTM)


Spoiler



On Normal
L' U2 L' B2 U2 B //2x2x2 [6/6]

On Inverse
Pre scramble : B' U2 B2 L U2 L
U' R2 //Psuedo 2x2x3 [2/8]

On Normal
Pre Scramble: R2 U

F2 R F' U F' U' //F2L-1 [6/14]
F U' F U F L F' L' F2 U' F2 U //3 Blocks Left [12/26]
U' L' F' L U L' F L //Finish [8-2/32]
Correction: R2 U


Did this within 1 hour. Tips please.


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## G2013 (Sep 26, 2014)

With your scramble and your start I found a 31 moves solve in less than 5 minutes:
Scramble- R' F' U B2 U2 D' L U2 D B' U B2 U2 D F2 R2 D' B2 L2 U D2
On Normal
L' U2 L' B2 U2 B //2x2x2 [6/6]

On Inverse
Pre scramble : B' U2 B2 L U2 L
U' R2 //Psuedo 2x2x3 [2/8]
F R' F2 R F' R' //F2L-1
L F2 L' F L F L' //Last pair
x y R' U' F U R U' R' F' R /OLL
U' //PLL skip

Final solve: U' R2 F R' F2 R F' R' L F2 L' F L F L' x y R' U' F U R U' R' F' R U' y' x' B' U2 B2 L U2 L, so
U' R2 F R' F2 R F' R' L F2 L' F L F L' U' F' R F U F' U' R' U F' B' U2 B2 L U2 L,
but we need to invert it, so
L' U2 L' B2 U2 B F U' R U F U' F' R' F U L F' L' F' L F2 L' R F R' F2 R F' R2 U (31 HTM)

I can't give tips because I need tips... I'm working on improving my endings, and sometimes I find skips like the one above this sentence.


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## okayama (Sep 27, 2014)

Scramble: D2 F2 U' R' D2 L' B' U' L2 F R B R' U' B' D2 U' L' U L' (Weekly FMC scramble 40)
Solution: B' U' D' R D' B2 D2 R D' R2 D2 R' D R' D' R2 B U B' D B U2 B' D' R2 U (26 moves)


Spoiler



Not special, but couldn't find within 1-hour. 

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: U B

2x2x1 block: U' R2
2x2x2 block: B U
Orient edges: B'

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: B U' B' R2 U

2x2x2 block: B' U'
2x2x3 block: D' R D' B2
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: D2 R D'
All but 3 corners: R2 D2 R' D R' D' R2
Correction: B U' * B' R2 U

Insert at *: U2 B' D B U2 B' D' B


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## moralsh (Sep 27, 2014)

I'll update cubecomps tomorrow, but we've had a 27 average by Javier Cabezuelo today at Spanish championship, 26, 27 & 28. 5th in the world!


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## Prakhar (Sep 28, 2014)

My PB solution to Weekly FMC scramble 40. 
Scramble- D2 F2 U' R' D2 L' B' U' L2 F R B R' U' B' D2 U' L' U L'
Solution- R' B2 R B R B' R' B' R' B2 R2 U' B2 U B' F2 L B2 D' L D2 U' F2 (23 HTM)


Spoiler



On Inverse
F2 U D2 L' D B2 L' F2 //2x2x3 [8/8]
B U' B2 U //F2L-1 [4/12]
R2 B R B'+ R //L3E [5/17]

Insert at + - B R' B R B R B R' B' R' B2

Another start-
On inverse
Premove- B'
F2 U D2 L' B2 D L' F2 B2// F2L-1 

First, I found a psuedo F2L-1 in 9 moves(10 including premove). But it left 0 edges oriented. So I continued to this. F2L-1 to L3E was pure luck. I did not use the optimal U perm or 6 move edge 3 cycle because there was no such case. Btw, insertions are optimal.


It is my PB. Previous was 27 HTM. Tips please.


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## guysensei1 (Sep 28, 2014)

Prakhar said:


> My PB solution to Weekly FMC scramble 40.
> Scramble- D2 F2 U' R' D2 L' B' U' L2 F R B R' U' B' D2 U' L' U L'
> Solution- R' B2 R B R B' R' B' R' B2 R2 U' B2 U B' F2 L B2 D' L D2 U' F2 (23 HTM)
> 
> ...



please spoiler the solution. Some people might not want to see other's solutions before trying the scramble!


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## Kit Clement (Sep 28, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> please spoiler the solution. Some people might not want to see other's solutions before trying the scramble!



I don't think it should matter much for last week's scramble.


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## Coolster01 (Sep 28, 2014)

FMC PB's!

29.000 Single.
32.000 Mean of 3. (29, 31, 36)
32.667 Average of 5. (35, 31, 34, 31, 33)
34.000 Average of 12. (29, 31, 36, 42, 34, 36, 30, 37, 36, 35, 31, 34)

I almost have an avg50, just need 8 more


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## Prakhar (Sep 29, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> please spoiler the solution. Some people might not want to see other's solutions before trying the scramble!


It does not matter much as many of them must have tried the scramble. But still, respecting you, I will spoiler it.


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## G2013 (Sep 29, 2014)

Week's challenge

Scramble: U R2 D2 F' R' D' F2 L2 D' B2 L D U2 B2 F U2 D2 F B' L2


Spoiler: Warning, too many letters



On brackets means on inverse
Solve:
F R2 F2 B2 //2x2x1+B2
(F U2) //2x2
(R D L R' B2) //2x2x3, Premove B2
(B D B' F L F') //EO
(L2 D L D L2 D) //Blocks
(D' L' D L' D' L2 D) //Sune

Skeleton: F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 F' (26 HTM)
Final solve: F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B L2 D' R' D L2 D' R B R L' D' R' U2 F' (32 HTM, 2 cancellations)

Insertion finding:

Found insertions:
F R2 F2 (F U F' D2 F U' F' D2) B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 F'
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' (D L2 D' R' D L2 D' R) B R L' D' R' U2 F'
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' (F L2 F' R' F L2 F' R) R' U2 F'
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 (D B D' F D B' D' F') F'

Final solves: 
F R2 F' U F' D2 F U' F' D2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 F' (33)
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B L2 D' R' D L2 D' R B R L' D' R' U2 F' (32) --> The chosen
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' F L2 F' R' F L2 F' U2 F' (32)
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 D B D' F D B' D' F2 (33)


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## guysensei1 (Sep 30, 2014)

How far do you think one can go with standard OLL/PLL for last layer?

Let's say that he can influence LL heavily and know multiple algs for each case to get cancellations, better cases and whatnot.


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## Attila (Sep 30, 2014)

moralsh said:


> I'll update cubecomps tomorrow, but we've had a 27 average by Javier Cabezuelo today at Spanish championship, 26, 27 & 28. 5th in the world!


Congratz to Javier 
Anyone can share these solves?


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## guysensei1 (Sep 30, 2014)

Just a decent (for my level) CFOP FMC solve. Was bored.
Scramble: U2 L2 B2 L2 U R2 U' F2 D' F2 D2 B' D L' U' L2 F2 L R F R' 

U R F' B2//cross (4)
D R' D R D' R D R'//f2l pair (8)
L D' R' D' R//f2l pair (5)
L' D2 L D L'//f2l pair (5)
D B' L B L' B D2 *B'*//OLS (8)
*B2* U R' D R' D' R U' B2 L' D L//PLL
Total: 41 moves CFOP. Lol


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## dbax0999 (Sep 30, 2014)

This has been brought to my attention a few times over the last two months so I thought I'd make a post in case other people are experiencing issues.

If you try to submit to the Weekly FMC and it says 'You have already submitted, please wait for next week's scramble', but you haven't submitted yet, then feel free to drop me a PM here or email me at dadams [at] berkeley [dot] edu with your Solution, Comments, and Username and I'll manually enter your submission. 

Also to the person submitting CubeExplorer solutions every week, it's obviously not working and not going to work in the future.

- David


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## G2013 (Sep 30, 2014)

Lol who submits cube explorer solutions?


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## pinser (Oct 1, 2014)

I got about halfway through the weekly comp scramble then ran out of time. Suggestions?



Spoiler



D B2 D' R2 D2 B2 U' B2 F2 D2 L2 R' D' U' R' F2 D B R2 D L'

Premove L
B2 D F' D' F R F' //2x2x2 (7/7)
L2 B2 L2 U B U' B //F2L-1 (7/14)
//My last minute thing was U' R B' R' B U B U' B' U which led to AB5C but then I gave up because of time.


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## guysensei1 (Oct 1, 2014)

pinser said:


> I got about halfway through the weekly comp scramble then ran out of time. I still can't find a good ending. Suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I found


Spoiler



D B2 D' R2 D2 B2 U' B2 F2 D2 L2 R' D' U' R' F2 D B R2 D L'
Premove L2

D U2 F' B2//Eoline (4)
L D' L'//2x2x1 (3)
R' D2 R L' D2 L //left block (6)
R' D' R D R D2 R//F2l-1 (7)
D' R2 U R' D2 R U' R2//WV (8)

But G perm


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## ichcubegerne (Oct 2, 2014)

At the end of F2L-1 you could do: R D R' D instead of WV.
Would be a L5C, but im sure you can find a good L3C


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## EMI (Oct 2, 2014)

pinser said:


> I got about halfway through the weekly comp scramble then ran out of time. Suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I would just do F U R U' R' F' to leave 4 corners. (after 21 moves)
or change the F2L-1 step to: L2 B2 L2 U B U2 R B' R' B U B which leaves 5 corners (after 20 moves)
This is what I found now, but there could easily be something better.

Edit: IF says 32 for the L4C and 31 for the L5C.


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## guysensei1 (Oct 2, 2014)

My solution for the FMC this week:


Spoiler



Scramble: U R2 D2 F' R' D' F2 L2 D' B2 L D U2 B2 F U2 D2 F B' L2

U' R B R B2 F U F2 U' R' F U' F' U F2 U2 R' U' R F R F2 U' B U F U' B' U' F2 U B U' F2 U B' U R' B' (39 moves)

Premove: B'
U' R B R B2//2x2x2 (5)
F U F2 U' R' F U' F' U F2//2x2x3 (10)
U2 R' U'//F2L-1 (3)
R F R* F'*//F2L (4)
*F'* U' B U F U' B' *U*//OLL (8)
*U2 *F2 U B U' F2 U B' U R'//PLL (10)


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## G2013 (Oct 3, 2014)

Spoiler: Week's solve



Scramble: U R2 D2 F' R' D' F2 L2 D' B2 L D U2 B2 F U2 D2 F B' L2

Solve:
F R2 F2 B2 //2x2x1+B2
(F U2) //2x2
(R D L R' B2) //2x2x3, Premove B2
(B D B' F L F') //EO
(L2 D L D L2 D) //Blocks
(D' L' D L' D' L2 D) //Sune

Skeleton: F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 F' (26 HTM)
Final solve: F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B L2 D' R' D L2 D' R B R L' D' R' U2 F' (32 HTM, 2 cancellations)

Insertions:
Skeleton: F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 F'

Found insertions:
F R2 F2 (F U F' D2 F U' F' D2) B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 F'
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' (D L2 D' R' D L2 D' R) B R L' D' R' U2 F'
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' (F L2 F' R' F L2 F' R) R' U2 F'
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 (D B D' F D B' D' F') F'

Found insertions cancelled: 
F R2 F' U F' D2 F U' F' D2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 F' (33)
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B L2 D' R' D L2 D' R B R L' D' R' U2 F' (32) => The chosen
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' F L2 F' R' F L2 F' U2 F' (32)
F R2 F2 B2 D' L2 D L D' L' D' L' D' L2 F L' F' B D' B R L' D' R' U2 D B D' F D B' D' F2 (33)


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## okayama (Oct 4, 2014)

WR-potential scramble from Sapporo Open 2014.

Scramble: U2 F2 U2 F' L2 U2 B' U2 B' D' R D B R' U2 F2 D' F2

I really hope you FMC guys try this scramble before I write my solution here.
Unfortunately I couldn't break WR.
24-move solution in 15 min, 21-move solution in 30 min, and no better solution was found in the remaining time. 

EDIT:


porkynator said:


> Can you post your solution (in spoiler if you prefer)?





Spoiler



Solution: U2 R U R' D R U' B R2 L' B' R' B R2 L D' F D F' R L2 (21 moves)

Here is 15 min backup solution. (24 moves)

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: U2 D'

2x2x2 block: L2 B'
F2L minus 1 slot: L R F' R' * F L'
Finish F2L: F' R' F
All but 3 corners: R2 U R F R' F' U'
Correction: U2 D'

Insert at *: R F2 R' B' R F2 R' B

Secondly, I found the following 21-move solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: U2 D'

Expand block: L2
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: R' F D' F' D
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: L' R2 B' R B L
All but 3 corners: R2 B' R'
Corner 3-cycle: R U R' D' R U' R' D
Correction: U2 D'

I still continued to search other solutions in the remaining time, but I couldn't find any better solution.


NB: jpbrc's solution is different from mine, although jpbrc's one seems more natural.


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## porkynator (Oct 4, 2014)

okayama said:


> WR-potential scramble from Sapporo Open 2014.
> 
> Scramble: U2 F2 U2 F' L2 U2 B' U2 B' D' R D B R' U2 F2 D' F2
> 
> ...



The best I could find in one hour was a 22


Spoiler



On inverse with premove U2:
L2 B' R' F D'
F' R2 D R D' R (all but 4 corners in 12)

Skeleton for normal scramble and insertions:
U2 R' D R' * D' R2 F D F' + R B L2
+ = B L2 B' R B L2 B' R'
* = L' B L F2 L' B' L F2



Can you post your solution (in spoiler if you prefer)?


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## jpbrc (Oct 4, 2014)

okayama said:


> WR-potential scramble from Sapporo Open 2014.
> 
> Scramble: U2 F2 U2 F' L2 U2 B' U2 B' D' R D B R' U2 F2 D' F2
> 
> ...


15-minutes solution: 


Spoiler



(Inverse with pre moves: D' U2) 
L2 B' // 2x2x3 LOL
R' F D' F' D // F2L-1
U R U' R U R2 U' // AB3C (1 move cancel with premoves)

Skeleton: D U' R2 U' R' U R' U' D' F D * F' R B L2
*= D B' D' F D B D' F'

Solution: D U' R2 U' R' U R' U' D' F D2 B' D' F D B D' F2 R B L2 *(21)*


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## Cabezuelo (Oct 4, 2014)

Attila said:


> Congratz to Javier
> Anyone can share these solves?



Thank you Attila.
scrambles:
1. D B2 D' L2 B2 U' L2 D' U2 B2 F' L' R B2 D' F L B' D U' 
2. R2 F' U R2 F' B2 R' L B U2 D2 B U2 R2 B D2 R2 B' U2
3. R2 D2 L2 U2 B2 L2 U2 F' L2 F2 D' U2 F L' D U' R U R' B2

(I'm sorry, I do not speak English) / (I use a translator).


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## Attila (Oct 5, 2014)

Cabezuelo said:


> Thank you Attila.
> scrambles:
> 1. D B2 D' L2 B2 U' L2 D' U2 B2 F' L' R B2 D' F L B' D U'
> 2. R2 F' U R2 F' B2 R' L B U2 D2 B U2 R2 B D2 R2 B' U2
> ...


Bienvenidos  ,
puedes compartir los soluziones tambien?
(si desea que se hagan públicos)


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## ottozing (Oct 5, 2014)

okayama said:


> WR-potential scramble from Sapporo Open 2014.
> 
> Scramble: U2 F2 U2 F' L2 U2 B' U2 B' D' R D B R' U2 F2 D' F2



My 33 min solution



Spoiler



U2 F2 U2 F' L2 U2 B' U2 B' D' R D B R' U2 F2 D' F2

Inv with premove U2
L2 B' R' F D' (F2L-1)
Switch
R' D R' D' R2 F (AB4C)

Skeleton: U2 R' D R' D' R2 F D F' R (^) B L2 (12)

(^) R' B L2 B' R B L2 B'

New skeleton: U2 R' D R' (^) D' R2 F D F' B L2 B' R B (14)

(^) L' B L F2 L' B' L F2

Solution: U2 R' D R' L' B L F2 L' B' L F2 D' R2 F D F' B L2 B' R B (22)



Kinda annoyed I couldn't cancel anything with the last insertion 

EDIT: Wow I got the same solution as porky, insertions and all.


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## EMI (Oct 5, 2014)

My 28.67 official mean of 3 and 25 single from yesterday and today, (tied) winning average at Sébra 2014.



Spoiler: First Solution



Scramble: D2 B2 F2 D' B2 U F2 R2 F2 D2 F U' B' R D2 L U R2 B2 U

2x2x2: L' D2 B2 D' B'
2x2x3: F' D L' F L
Switch, pseudo-F2L-1 and EO: D R D2 F' D
AB5c: R' F R F' R2 F'

Skeleton: L' D2 B2 D' B' F' D @ L' F L F R2 F R' F' # R D' F D2 R' D' (21)

@ = D' R D L2 D' R' D L2 (8-3)
# = F D' F' U' F D F' U (8-2)

Solution: L' D2 B2 D' B' F' R D L2 D' R' D L F L F R2 F R' D' F' U' F D F' U R D' F D2 R' D' (32)





Spoiler: Second Solution



Scramble: L2 B2 R B2 D2 L' F2 R B2 L2 D F R' U' B' U2 R2 D B' L2

Blocks: R B2 R2
Switch and 1x2x3: U L2
Another 1x2x2: R' F2 R2
AB3e3c: F' R B' D' F B' L B F' D2

Skeleton: R B2 R2 D2 F B' L' @ B F' D # B R' F R2 F2 R L2 U' (18)
@ = L B R' B' L' B R B' (8-6)
# = D' F D F2 B2 U' F' U F2 B2 (10-5)

Solution: R B2 R2 D2 F R' B' L' B R D F2 B2 U' F' U F2 B' R' F R2 F2 R L2 U' (25)





Spoiler: Third Solution



Scramble: R2 D R2 U R2 U2 R2 D2 F2 R2 F' U2 L' F' D U' B D' R U2

2x2x2: D R2 L' B2 L F'
Switch and pseudo-2x2x3: B U R2 U R
Switch and F2L-1: R2 B' R' U2
Switch and EO: L' B' L
F2L: B U B2 U'
LL: L B L' B L B2 L'

Solution: D R2 L' B2 L F' R2 B' R' U2 L B2 L' B' L B' L' U B2 U' B' L' B L R' U' R2 U' B' (29)



32, 25, 29 -> 28.67 mean.
The insertions at the 25 are just incredible. anyway, I'm very happy with my first official mean.


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## G2013 (Oct 5, 2014)

Finally!! My first sub-30, done with this week' scramble (F2 B D R L F2 R' B' L2 U R2 L2 F R2 L D2 B' F2 L' U2 for those who don't know)



Spoiler



Scramble: F2 B D R L F2 R' B' L2 U R2 L2 F R2 L D2 B' F2 L' U2
Inverse scramble: (U2 L F2 B D2 L' R2 F' L2 R2 U' L2 B R F2 L' R' D' B' F2)

(R F) //Premoves
D' R' D' R B2 R' //2x2, Pre R'
R U R' U2 F2 U' F2 //2x2x3, Pre F'
B L' B' //F2L-1
B' U' B U L U L' //L3C

Skeleton: D' R' D' R B2 U R' U2 F2 U' F2 B L' B2 U' B U L U L' F' R'
Solve backup: D' R' D' R B2 U R' U2 F2 U' F2 B L' B2 U' B U L U L' F' R' B D' B' U B D B' U'

Insertion finding:

D' R' D' R B2 U (F' L F R2 F' L' F R2) R' U2 F2 U' F2 B L' B2 U' B U L U L' F' R'

Only one found

Final solution:

D' R' D' R B2 U F' L F R2 F' L' F R U2 F2 U' F2 B L' B2 U' B U L U L' F' R' (29 HTM, first sub 30)


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## Jimmy Liu (Oct 6, 2014)

EMI said:


> Spoiler: Second Solution
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was an amazing solving process, and congatz on both single and average PBs!
Now I beat you in only mega avg, which is not my main event.
Since I'm not bad at SQ1 and FMC, it is really respectable for you to beat me in both events, and I'm trying to practice another event as long as won't beat me next time.


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## EMI (Oct 6, 2014)

Jimmy Liu said:


> It was an amazing solving process, and congatz on both single and average PBs!
> Now I beat you in only mega avg, which is not my main event.
> Since I'm not bad at SQ1 and FMC, it is really respectable for you to beat me in both events, and I'm trying to practice another event as long as won't beat me next time.



Thanks! I think I will improve my Megaminx average since I'd like to have a better sum of ranks, but you could learn BLD and get decent, I don't see myself getting very good at that.


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## TheDubDubJr (Oct 7, 2014)

A fun 23 while skyping with friends plus Jay

normal: R2 F2 R2 D2 B L2 D2 U2 F U2 L D' F' L2 U F L' U B F2
inverse: F2 B' U' L F' U' L2 F D L' U2 F' U2 D2 L2 B' D2 R2 F2 R2

(n) L B U' L' D // 2x2x2 (5/5)
switch
(i)F U R U2 R // 2x2x3 (5/10)
(i)U F R' F R U2 F2 // L3C (7/17)

L' B U' L' D F2 U2 R' F' R F' U' R' U2 R' (F' U' B' U F U' B U) U' F' // cancels 2moves

Solution: L' B U' L' D F2 U2 R' F' R F' U' R' U2 R' F' U' B' U F U' B F' (23)



Spoiler: 20 min backup solution



scramble: R2 F2 R2 D2 B L2 D2 U2 F U2 L D' F' L2 U F L' U B F2

L' B U' L' D // 2x2x2
F U' F' R F R // 2x2x3 + pair
U' R' D' F' D F' R F' // F2L
R' U2 R U R2 D' R U R' D R2 U (31)


----------



## ottozing (Oct 7, 2014)

My attempt when skyping with lame people + notwalker

R2 F2 R2 D2 B L2 D2 U2 F U2 L D' F' L2 U F L' U B F2

L' B U' L' D (2x2x2)
F U' F' R2 (2x2x3)
R' F R U' R' F2 R F' (F2L-1)
L' U L (AB3C)

Skeleton: L' B U' L' D F U' F' R F R U' R' F2 R F' L' * U L (19)

* L' U R U' L U R' U'

Solution: L' B U' L' D F U' F' R F R U' R' F2 R F' L2 U R U' L U R' L (24)

</3


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## guysensei1 (Oct 7, 2014)

This week's FMC


Spoiler



Scramble: F2 B D R L F2 R' B' L2 U R2 L2 F R2 L D2 B' F2 L' U2

L' B' R2 B//2x2x2 (4)
F D R' D R D//2x2x3 (6)
Switch to inverse with premove F2,
R2 F U F' L F L' U' R U' R' *U*//F2L (12)
*U'* B2 D B D' B *U*//OLL (7)
*U'* R D' R2 U R' U' R2 U D R//PLL(11)

Final: L' B' R2 B F D R' D R D F2 R' D' U' R2 U R U' R2 D R' B' D B' D' B2 R U R' U L F' L' F U' F' R2 (37 moves)

EDIT: The LL looked cool so I looked up the optimal alg: L U L' F' L U' L2 U L F. Is this a popular 1LLL case?



Tips? Currently working on insertions and alternative LL methods.


----------



## guysensei1 (Oct 7, 2014)

From the Example Solve game...
D U F' R' B2 D B' L R F' U' R' L2 F' L2 F2 B2 R U L2 D' F L2 R' F



Spoiler



R2 L2 U B' R' D L *F*//2x2x3+A whole lot of other things (8)
*F'* R' B2 R F//F2L whoa! (5)



Optimal insertions give 19 moves O_O


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## Prakhar (Oct 8, 2014)

okayama said:


> WR-potential scramble from Sapporo Open 2014.
> 
> Scramble: U2 F2 U2 F' L2 U2 B' U2 B' D' R D B R' U2 F2 D' F2


My 21 move solution. (It is same as jpbrc's but I didn't copy.) Why didn't I get this in a competition.


Spoiler



Solution- D U' R2 U' R' U R' U' D' F D2 B' D' F D B D' F2 R B L2

On Normal
D //2x2x1 [1/1]

On Inverse
Pre Scramble- U2 D' 

L2 B' //2x2x3 [2/2]
R' F D' F' D //F2L-1 [5/7]
U R U' R U R2 U' //L3C [7/14]

Correction- U2 D [2-1/15]

Skeleton on Normal- D U' R2 U' R' U R' U' D' F D + F' R B L2

Insert at +- D B' D' F B B D' F' [8-2/21]


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## Sebastien (Oct 8, 2014)

I just worked with a L5E skeleton for the first time ever, and it turned out to be really good. 

(2nd scramble of the current German forum competition)



Spoiler



Scramble: L2 F U2 R2 F U2 R2 B' U2 L2 B' R F2 L2 D B' D' L F2 L B

On Inverse:
EO: F B2 D B'
more blocks & CO: L2 D R' U R2
L5E: U' * F2 U F2 B2 D

* = U2 L' U2 L F2 B2 R' D2 R D2 B2 F2 (cool conjugate!)

Inverse solution: F B2 D B' L2 D R' U R2 U L' U2 L F2 B2 R' D2 R D2 B2 U F2 B2 D

Solution: D' B2 F2 U' B2 D2 R' D2 R B2 F2 L' U2 L U' R2 U' R D' L2 B D' B2 F'

24 moves.

The insertion finder says that 25 moves is optimal!


----------



## MennoniteCuber1 (Oct 8, 2014)

I'd like to learn FMC, and I've seen Heise method, but it looks a little complicated. What else are good methods?


----------



## obelisk477 (Oct 8, 2014)

Petrus, tripod, and a good understanding of commutators (block, edge, and corner) will get you started. The longer answer is that there aren't really any methods for FMC, but that's not particularly helpful.

A good tutorial can be found here.


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## okayama (Oct 18, 2014)

Most Sub-X solves in FMC, like in Rubik's Cube (update of this post)

*< 22*

Tomoaki Okayama 2
Moritz Karl 1
Sébastien Auroux 1
*< 24*

Sébastien Auroux 5
Tomoaki Okayama 2
Vincent Sheu 2
Moritz Karl 1
Jimmy Coll 1
István Kocza 1
Adrian Lehmann 1
Bence Barát 1
Walker Welch 1
*< 26*

Sébastien Auroux 15
Tomoaki Okayama 5
Daniel Sheppard 3
Erik Akkersdijk 3
Vincent Sheu 2
Bence Barát 2
Marcel Peters 2



Spoiler: less than 2 times




Moritz Karl 1
Jimmy Coll 1
István Kocza 1
Adrian Lehmann 1
Walker Welch 1
Clément Gallet 1
Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez 1
Laura Ohrndorf 1
Tim Reynolds 1
Yu Nakajima 1
Baiqiang Dong 1
Emanuel Rheinert 1
Guus Razoux Schultz 1
João Pedro Batista Ribeiro Costa 1
Joon Cha 1
Linus Fresz 1
Marcin Stachura 1
Ron van Bruchem 1
Sakari Rautalin 1
Shotaro Makisumi 1
Steven Xu 1
Teemu Tiinanen 1
Yuki Tanaka 1



*< 28*

Sébastien Auroux 42
Daniel Sheppard 12
Tomoaki Okayama 10
Erik Akkersdijk 6
Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez 6
Marcel Peters 6
Jan Bentlage 6
Tim Reynolds 4
Vincent Sheu 3
Clément Gallet 3
Guus Razoux Schultz 3
Teemu Tiinanen 3
Alexander Olleta del Molino 3
Robert Yau 3
Bence Barát 2
Laura Ohrndorf 2
Steven Xu 2
Linus Fresz 2
Marcin Stachura 2
Arnaud van Galen 2
Olivér Perge 2
Sebastiano Tronto 2
Devin Corr-Robinett 2
David Woner 2
Michael Young 2



Spoiler: less than 2 times




Moritz Karl 1
Jimmy Coll 1
István Kocza 1
Adrian Lehmann 1
Walker Welch 1
Yu Nakajima 1
Baiqiang Dong 1
Emanuel Rheinert 1
João Pedro Batista Ribeiro Costa 1
Joon Cha 1
Ron van Bruchem 1
Sakari Rautalin 1
Shotaro Makisumi 1
Yuki Tanaka 1
Alexander Lau 1
Ali Salavati 1
Grzegorz Łuczyna 1
Hideki Niina 1
Luis Javier Iáñez Pareja 1
Mats Valk 1
Nikhil Mande 1
Olivier Polspoel 1
Sergey Ryabko 1
Vincent Hartanto Utomo 1
Abdelhak Kaddour 1
Blake Thompson 1
Claudio Müller 1
Dmitry Karyakin 1
Evan Liu 1
Fang Qin 1
Guillain Potron 1
Henrik Buus Aagaard 1
Jakob Kogler 1
John Tamanas 1
Julian David 1
Louis Cormier 1
Mikhail Rostovikov 1
Nathan Dwyer 1
Phillip Lewicki 1
Quentin Savard 1
Rob Stuart 1
Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Fatemi 1
Simon Westlund 1
Stefan Pochmann 1
Stephen Adhisaputra 1
Thom Barlow 1
Wataru Hashimura 1




On average
*< 26*

Sébastien Auroux 2
Vincent Sheu 1
*< 28*

Sébastien Auroux 6
Daniel Sheppard 3
Vincent Sheu 1
Marcel Peters 1
Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez 1
*< 30*

Sébastien Auroux 10
Daniel Sheppard 3
Marcel Peters 2
Tomoaki Okayama 2
Vincent Sheu 1
Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez 1
Linus Fresz 1
Sebastiano Tronto 1
Emanuel Rheinert 1
Rob Stuart 1
Timothy Sun 1
Hideki Niina 1
Mats Valk 1


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## okayama (Oct 18, 2014)

Improved solution for Weekly FMC 43.


Spoiler



Scramble: D B2 R' D F2 B2 U' F' R B R L D' U B L F' B' U2 L'
Solution: L' U2 B R' U2 B2 U' B D' L D2 L2 U' L D2 L' U L2 D2 L' F L2 F' L' D' L U (27 moves)

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: U

2x2x3 block: L' U2 B R' U2 B2 U' B
continuation D2 B D B' D L' looks nice, but in reality not.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B' U B2 U2 R B' U2 L

2x2x3 block: U'
F2L minus 1 slot: L' D L F L2 F'
All but 3 corners: L D2 L' D2 * L D2 L' D
Correction: B' U B2 U2 R B' U2 L

Insert at *: D2 L' U' L D2 L' U L

hard scramble for me...


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## Meneghetti (Oct 21, 2014)

My winning 31 at Uberlândia Open 2014:

Scramble: B’ F R2 U2 B2 R2 B’ L’ D B’ F2 L2 F’ D’ R2 B2 L’ R
Solution:


Spoiler



(on inverse scramble)
U’ L’ B R’ B’ // 2x2x2
F’ R U2 // LL square
F R // x-cross
U2 L’ U’ L // xx-cross
F’ U’ F // xxx-cross
R’ U’ R U R’ U’ R // finish F2L
R U R2 F R F2 U F // finish LL

Final solution: F’ U’ F2 R’ F’ R2 U’ R2 U R U’ R’ U R F’ U F L’ U L U2 R’ F’ U2 R’ F B R B’ L U



Cubecomps


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## ottozing (Oct 22, 2014)

29.7 FMC avg12 done over the course of 4 days. All done within an hour.

24, 28, 33, 25, 30, 36, 30, 29, 27, 30, DNF, 29

Counting 36 and 33 is annoying, but I wasn't really expecting myself to go 12 solves without a few bad ones. First 5 make a 27.6 avg5.




Spoiler: Solutions






Spoiler: 24



D2 B2 F2 L2 B2 F2 D F2 D2 U' B' D2 U2 L' D U B L' U' L2

Inv
B R2 U2 B' (1x2x3)
R2 U2 L U' (2x2x3)
Switch
F L' F L F' (F2L-1)
F D2 F' D2 R' D' R D (AB3C)

Skeleton: F L' F L D2 F' D2 R' D' R D U L' U2 R2 B U2 R2 B' ^ (19)

^ B R F2 R' B' R F2 R'

Solution: F L' F L D2 F' D2 R' D' R D U L' U2 R2 B U2 R' F2 R' B' R F2 R' (24)





Spoiler: 28



R D' L2 B' L' B2 R B' R' D2 R2 L2 B' U2 L2 B L2 F D2 F

Inv
L2 U2 (Square + 2 pairs)
Switch
L F' U2 L (2x2x2)
D' R2 L D' L' (2x2x3)
D2 R2 B R' B' R (F2L-1)
R' D2 R (AB4C)

Skeleton: L F' U2 L D' R2 L D' * L' D2 R2 B R' B' D2 R U2 L2 (18)

* D' R' D L' D' R D L

New skeleton: L F' U2 L D' R2 L D2 ^ R' D L' D' R D' R2 B R' B' D2 R U2 L2 (22)

^ D' L2 D R2 D' L2 D R2

Solution: L F' U2 L D' R2 L D L2 D R2 D' L2 D R D L' D' R D' R2 B R' B' D2 R U2 L2 (28)





Spoiler: 33



L2 B' U2 B U2 B2 R2 D2 R2 U2 F2 D' R' U R2 B2 F' L' D2 U

Premove D2
U L' U2 L' U (2x2x2)
L B' L2 B F2 (F2L-1)
F L U L' U' F' (EO)
L' U L' U' L (AB5C)

Skeleton: U L' U2 L' * U L B' L2 B F' L U L' U' F' L' U L' U' L D2 (21)

* B2 U ^ F' U' B2 U F U'
^ U B' U' F U B U' F'

Solution: U L' U2 L' B2 U2 B' U' F U B U' F2 U' B2 U F L B' L2 B F' L U L' U' F' L' U L' U' L D2 (33)





Spoiler: 25



U' B2 F2 R2 U2 F2 D' B2 U B2 D2 R B2 L U' R' B2 F' D2 B' R2

L2 B' L2 R' D' (2x2x2)
Switch
L2 F2 L (2x2x3)
L' U' L F U2 L F' L' (F2L-1+EO)
U F U2 F' U' (AB4C)

Skeleton: L2 B' L2 R' D' U F U2 F' U' * L F L' U2 F' ^ L' U F2 L2 (19)

* B L F L' B' L F' L'
^ U R2 U' L' U R2 U' L

Solution: L2 B' L2 R' D' U F U2 F' U' B L F L' B' U2 F' U R2 U' L' U R2 F2 L2 (25)





Spoiler: 30



D B2 R' D F2 B2 U' F' R B R L D' U B L F' B' U2 L'

D2 U' F2 L R2 F' R2 (2x2x2 + pairs)
Switch
B' D2 L (2x2x3 + pairs)
Switch
D2 B R D' R2 B' R (F2L)
R B2 R' B' R B' R' U' B' L' B L U B2 (LL)

Solution: D2 U' F2 L R2 F' R2 D2 B R D' R2 B' R2 B2 R' B' R B' R' U' B' L' B L U B2 L' D2 B (30)





Spoiler: 36



U2 B L' F2 B' D B' D L U' F' D2 R2 L2 F' R2 B U2 B2 U2 F'

Inv with premove B
F' L R' F2 B2 (1x2x3)
U2 L2 (2x2x3)
R F' R' F2 D F2 R2 D B' D' B F (F2L-1 + set up pair)
D2 B' D B (F2L)
R D2 R' D' R D' F D F' D' R' D2 (LL)

Solution: B' D2 R D F D' F' D R' D R D2 R' B' D' B D2 F' B' D B D' R2 F2 D' F2 R F R' L2 U2 B2 F2 R L' F (36)





Spoiler: 30



B2 U' R2 U' R2 U' R2 B2 U2 R2 B2 L' D' B U L F D' U B'

Inv with premove R2
L B' U' F2 B R' B D2 (2x2x3)
F U F2 L' F (EO)
L U2 L' U L (AB3E3C)

Skeleton: R2 L' U' L U2 L' F' * L F2 U' F' D2 B' R B' F2 U B L' ^ (19)

^ D R' L B2 R L' D
* F' R2 F L F' R2 F L'

Solution: R2 L' U' L U2 L' F2 R2 F L F' R2 F' U' F' D2 B' R B' F2 U B L' D R' L B2 R L' D (30)





Spoiler: 29



L2 R2 F L2 F2 R2 B' U2 R2 U2 L2 D' L' R' F2 D R' B2 D2 B F

Inv
U' F U' F' L F (Xcross)
Switch
F B L B2 L' F' (First pair)
B D' B D (Second pair)
B' L' B2 L (Set up last pair)
B D' B2 U B' U' B2 D B' (LSLL)

Solution: F B L B2 L' F' B D' B D B' L' B2 L B D' B2 U B' U' B2 D B' F' L' F U F' U (29)





Spoiler: 27



B2 D2 F2 L2 U' F2 U L2 U R2 B2 R' U L2 B F2 U2 B F D F'

D' L2 F (EO)
D U' L2 U B2 U R U' L B2 (2x2x3)
R U' R' U' R' U2 (AB5C)

Skeleton: D' L2 F D ^ U' L2 U B2 U R U' L B2 R U' R' U' R' U2 (19)

^ R' U' L2 U R U' L2 U

New skeleton: D' L2 F D R' * U' L2 U R B2 U R U' L B2 R U' R' U' R' U2 (21)

* R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R U2

Solution: D' L2 F D R2 D2 R U2 R' D2 R U L2 U R B2 U R U' L B2 R U' R' U' R' U2 (27)





Spoiler: 30



D R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 R2 U' F2 U' F D' L R' F U B2 R' D' L2 D

Premove F2
L' U F (2x2x2)
B D2 L' (Xcross)
R' B R (F2L-2)
Switch
B U B U' (F2L-1)
D' B' D B L B' L' B' (AB3C)

Skeleton: L' U F B D2 L' R' B R B L B L' B' D' B D U B' ^ U' B' F2 (22)

^ L2 F' R F L2 F' R' F

Solution: L' U F B D2 L' R' B R B L B L' B' D' B D U B' L2 F' R F L2 F' R' F U' B' F2 (30)





Spoiler: 29



L2 B L2 B R2 F L2 D2 B2 U L B D' R D R B2 U R'

B' R2 U D L' U (2x2x2)
D B' L B L' (2x2x3)
F D F2 R2 F (EO)
R' D R2 D' R' D' R' D (AB3C)

Skeleton: B' R2 U D L' U D B' L B * L' F D F2 R2 F R' D R2 D' R' D' R' D (24)

* B R' B' L' B R B' L

Solution: B' R2 U D L' U D B' L B2 R' B' L' B R B' F D F2 R2 F R' D R2 D' R' D' R' D (29)


----------



## Coolster01 (Oct 22, 2014)

ottozing said:


> 29.7 FMC avg12 done over the course of 4 days. All done within an hour.
> 
> 24, 28, 33, 25, 30, 36, 30, 29, 27, 30, DNF, 29
> 
> ...



To do: look at all of these solutions after school.


----------



## MennoniteCuber1 (Oct 22, 2014)

I've been using Petrus for a bit and I hit about 50-60 moves(usually in the high 50s). I am learning COLL. Should I switch to tripod or something like that or practice more with Petrus?


----------



## guysensei1 (Oct 22, 2014)

MennoniteCuber1 said:


> I've been using Petrus for a bit and I hit about 50-60 moves(usually in the high 50s). I am learning COLL. Should I switch to tripod or something like that or practice more with Petrus?


Try not to fully stick with petrus. After you've finished the 2x2x3, blockbuild to F2L-1 (basically an XXXcross) and work from there.


----------



## guusrs (Oct 22, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> I just worked with a L5E skeleton for the first time ever, and it turned out to be really good.
> 
> (2nd scramble of the current German forum competition)
> 
> ...



Nice solution!
But starting with EO and ending with L5E doesn't sound logic to me.


----------



## Kit Clement (Oct 22, 2014)

First sub-30 Mo3 at home! 

Many of these scrambles should match the ones in Jay's average of 12.



Spoiler: 29.33 Mo3






Spoiler: R2 D L2 R2 U' B2 D B2 U2 F2 U2 B' D B F2 U' F' R F2 R2



I: B2 D B' L' F U' R2 B2 R' \\2x2x3 (9/9)
L' U2 L' U2 L U L' \\F2L-1+pairs (7/16)
F U F' U F U' F' U \\L3C (8/24)

Skel: (^) U' F U F' U' F U' F' L U' L' U2 L U2 L R B2 R2 U F' L B D' B2 

(^): R' D R U' R' D' R U

Final: R' D R U' R' D' R F U F' U' F U' F' L U' L' U2 L U2 L R B2 R2 U F' L B D' B2 (30)





Spoiler: D R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 R2 U' F2 U' F D' L R' F U B2 R' D' L2 D



PM: L2
N: U' L' B \\2x2x2 (4/4)
I: (L2) R' D2 R' F' D R' \\2x2x3 (6/10)
F D F' D2 R F2 R' \\PS-F2L (7/17)
D' F2 \\WT4C (2/19)

Skel: U' L' (^) B F2 D R F2 R' D2 F D' F' R D' F R' D2 L2 R (&)

(^): L F L' B' L F' L' B
(&): R' B L' B' R B L B'

Final: U' F L' B' L F' L' B2 F2 D R F2 R' D2 F D' F' R D' F R' D2 L2 B L' B' R B L B' (30)





Spoiler: L2 B L2 B R2 F L2 D2 B2 U L B D' R D R B2 U R'



N: R' F R U2 B' R2 \\1x2x3 (6/6)
I: B2 D2 B' U2 \\2x2x3 (4/10)
N: (R') D R \\F2L-1 (2/12)
I: F R F' R' D2 F2 D F' D' L' F' L \\L3C (12/24)

Skel: R' F R U2 B' R D R L' F L D F (^) D' F2 D2 R F R' F' U2 B D2 B2

(^): F' D B D' F D B' D' 

Final: R' F R U2 B' R D R L' F L D2 B D' F D B' D2 F2 D2 R F R' F' U2 B D2 B2 (28)


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## Jimmy Liu (Oct 22, 2014)

Do you think we can get sub 30 moves steadily without using any techniques of commutators or insertions?

I do my FMC attempts without using any techniques of commutators or insertions.

I only use premoves and NISS, and I just try to force OLL or PLL skip, these skills easily enable me to get sub 40 moves.

But I thought these skips stuffs couldn't let me get steadily sub 30 moves, seems there is a restriction if not using commutators or insertions.


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## irontwig (Oct 22, 2014)

Jimmy Liu said:


> Do you think we can get sub 30 moves steadily without using any techniques of commutators or insertions?
> 
> I do my FMC attempts without using any techniques of commutators or insertions.
> 
> ...



Perhaps, but why would you? It's the worst mistake that you can make, and I've made it several times myself; *do not restrict yourself!*


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## Sebastien (Oct 22, 2014)

guusrs said:


> Nice solution!
> But starting with EO and ending with L5E doesn't sound logic to me.



Thanks. Yes, you are completely right, the finish was pure coincidence.


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## Meneghetti (Oct 23, 2014)

A ridiculously lucky 22-moves solve (18 STM!). Scramble taken from this online competition.

Scramble: B2 F2 R2 D B2 F2 L2 F2 L2 U' L' B L U F R' F R' L' D' U2


Spoiler



(on inverse scramble)
R D * R2 // 2x2x1
L2 U' L D // 2x2x3
U' // pseudo F2L-1E
B F' U' F B' // pseudo F2L
R2 U' // AB3C

insert at *: D F D' B2 D F' D' B2

Final solution: U R2 B F' U F B' U D' L' U L2 R2 B2 D F D' B2 D F' D2 R' (22 OBTM)


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## Sebastien (Oct 24, 2014)

I asked Baiqiang if he could add an option to the insertion finder, making it possible to restrict it to pure commutators as before the update several months ago. he implemented it today already.


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## dbax0999 (Oct 24, 2014)

I just added mean of 3 support to the weekly FMC. If you have any small suggestions that you'd like to see implemented over the weekend I'll get to as many as I can in celebration of FMC USA this weekend!


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## Rcuber123 (Oct 25, 2014)

PB from last week:

Scramble: F D2 F' L2 D R B' U F D B2 D' L2 D' B2 L2 F2 D' F2 U'

Solve:
B2 D' B' F D F R' F2 D2 F pseudo 2x2x3 (10/10)
X2 R2 Y R U R' X Y2 F2 U' R' L F2 R L' U2 F U F U F' U' F2 everything else (19/29)
B' correct pseudoness

How I found it:
I found two good 2x2x3s: B2 D' B' D' F R' D2 R' U' and (premove: U') B2 D' B' F D F R' F2 D2 F
But I couldnt find a good continuation so I used the second 2x2x3
After that I found out that if continue R2 X2 Y R U R' U2 F' U F U F U' F' you get an OLL skip and PLL is Uperm
But I don't know insertions so I had to use F2 U' R' L F2 U R L' U' F2
But luckily I was able to shave 4 moves off by doing it before I put the last 2 F2L pairs in place


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## porkynator (Oct 26, 2014)

My solution for the weekly (the week that has just ended)

Scramble: L' U' B' D F' U R' B D L' B2 D R' L D2 U' L U2 B2 R
Corners First 

B' R U L' U D2 B //First layer corners -1 move and 6 edges (7/7)
L' B' L B D L' //All corners (6/13)
F D' F2 L D U' F' //3 more edges (7/20)
R2 U F2 D' U L //Finish (6/26)

First time submitting a corners first solution


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## TheDubDubJr (Oct 27, 2014)

Here is my 30.67 Mean from FMC USA 2014.



Spoiler: #1 - 30



I found this 19 to L5C in literally 2min, basically the first thing I did.

Scramble - F' R L2 F B2 R F U2 B U' D2 B2 U2 D' R2 D F2 R2 B2
Inverse - B2 R2 F2 D' R2 D U2 B2 D2 U B' U2 F' R' B2 F' L2 R' F

All on normal
R' L B' L' R U2 // 2x2x2 (6/6)
R2 B R2 B // 2x2x3 (4/10)
R2 D' R D F D F2 R2 F // L5C (9/19)

Skeleton
R' * L B' L' # R U2 R2 B R2 B R2 D' R D F D F2 R2 F 

[123] * = (B R B' L B R' B' L') cancels 3
[451] # = (L F2 L' B' L F2 L' B) cancels 2

Solution - R' B R B' L B R' B2 F2 L' B' L F2 L' B R U2 R2 B R2 B R2 D' R D F D F2 R2 F (30)

IF says 29 is optimal, I didn't save enough time to find insertions toward the end where optimal is.
http://if.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/e391fb710791411257437ef30a67993c.cube




Spoiler: 20min 30 Backup Solution



start on normal
n: R2 L B' L' R2 U2 // 2x2x2 (6/6)
R2 B2 R2 B D2 // F2L-1 (5/11)
switch
i: R D' R2 D R B R' B' R2 B R B' R // L3E (13/24)

Skeleton - R2 L B' (U2 F R2 D2 L2 B D2 R2) L' R2 U2 R2 B2 R2 B D2 R' B R' B' R2 B R B' R' D' R2 D R' (8-2/30)

IF says its optimal <3 
http://if.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/cbeaf1e85fe59283a01d085312d160bc.cube








Spoiler: #2 - 29



Scramble - L F2 L' D2 L2 B2 U2 L' B' F' R' F' D2 F2 L2 D R F U'
Inverse - U F' R' D' L2 F2 D2 F R F B L U2 B2 L2 D2 L F2 L'

All on normal
D L F B2 U' // 2x2x2 (5/5)
F' L' F' L D' L2 D' // Pseudo 2x2x3 (7/12)
L D' L' D L' D F' // L4C (7/19)

Skeleton
D L F B2 U' F' L' F' L D' L2 D' L D' L' D L' D F'

First insertion - D L F B2 U' F' (F' R F L' F' R' F L) L' F' L D' L2 D' L D' L' D L' D F' // cancels 5

Second insertion - (F D' B2 D F' D' B2 D) D L F B2 U' F2 R F L' F' R' L D' L2 D' L D' L' D L' D F' // cancels 1

Solution - F D' B2 D F' D' B2 D2 L F B2 U' F2 R F L' F' R' L D' L2 D' L D' L' D L' D F' (29)

IF says 27. I was running out of time during the second insertion even though I was almost at the end and I missed the 3move cancellation :'(
http://if.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/99a6f6e10df9412fdf1acbd2cb25345b.cube





Spoiler: #3 - 33



Scramble - B2 U R2 D U L2 D2 U' L2 B U2 R' F2 D2 L' F R' D' L' U'
Inverse - U L D R F' L D2 F2 R U2 B' L2 U D2 L2 U' D' R2 U' B2

This scramble can go to hell.
I basically just tried decent 2x2x2s and 2x2x3s until a good continuation came up 

Start on Normal
R2 L' D2 L U' R U2 // 2x2x2 (7/7)
L2 F' D F2 // 2x2x3 (4/11)
switch
L' F' D2 F // F2L-1 (4/15)
L2 F L' F' // block+pair (4/19)
L U L2 D' L' D L2 U' // L3C (8/27) basically a block comm to preserve stuff

Skeleton
R2 L' D2 L U' R U2 L2 F' D F2 U L2 D' ^ L D L2 U' L' F L F' L2 F' D2 F L

^ = D F' D' B2 D F D' B2 // cancels 2

Solution - R2 L' D2 L U' R U2 L2 F' D F2 U L2 F' D' B2 D F D' B2 L D L2 U' L' F L F' L2 F' D2 F L (33)

IF says optimal 
http://if.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/a704e177c30e20bafaf9d8122f8ac669.cube

Found this skeleton very late and didn't have any other options



Was hoping for a sub-30 mean and optimal insertions would have gotten me that :/
Not too disappointed with it though.


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## guysensei1 (Oct 28, 2014)

Copied this over from the example solve thread because it's just too lol


> Scramble: D' B2 U L2 D L2 D' B2 D' R2 D L F2 U2 F2 U B D R F' R
> Heh, solved 2x2x2
> 
> F' U2 R U' R'//2x2x3 (5)
> ...


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## ch_ts (Oct 28, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Copied this over from the example solve thread because it's just too lol





Spoiler



You could've done the LL with:
U' R' F' R F U
L F2 L' F' L F' L' F2
to cancel 2 more moves


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## IQubic (Oct 30, 2014)

FMC USA 2014
Scrambles:
1. F' R L2 F B2 R F U2 B U' D2 B2 U2 D' R2 D F2 R2 B2
2. L F2 L' D2 L2 B2 U2 L' B' F' R' F' D2 F2 L2 D R F U'
3. B2 U R2 D U L2 D2 U' L2 B U2 R' F2 D2 L' F R' D' L' U'

I got 2 DNFs but it was my first ever timed FMC (home or comp), so at least I have an official PB (single ofc, not mo3).
I would like you to try see where you could put commutators in the FIRST AND LAST solves (use different commutators than mine for the last), instead of my OLL PLL endings.

Solution to 1 (54):


Spoiler



Pre-Move D
R' L B' R L' U2 // 2x2x2 6/6
R2 B R2 B //3x3x3 4/10
R F D F' D2 // Pseudo F2L-1 5/15
R' D' R D R2 D B' D' B R' // LP + Edges 10/25
D R2 D2 R' D2 R' D2 R2 D // OLL 9/34
X' U F' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R' F' U2 // PLL 19// 53
X D// Undo Pre-Move



Scramble 2, I found two separate 12 move solutions to the SAME 3x3x2 (47):


Spoiler



D' L' U2 B' R' U // 2x2x2 6/6
D R' B D B' R // 2x2x3 6/12
D L' F2 L F2 L' F2 L // F2L-1 8/20
F D F' D2 F D F' Z2 // LP+EOLL 7/27
L' U R U' L U *R'* // OLL 7/34
*R'* U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' U' R' F' R2 U2 // PLL 14/48



Scramble 3, which was the worst for us at Seattle (51):


Spoiler



D' F2 D R' F & D2 L' D' L U // 2x2x3 10/10
D L' D' L D // Add Square 5/15
R U' R' F' U F U' // LP+Edges 10/25
Y R' D' R D R' D' R D U2 D' R' D R D' R' D R U2 // OLL

Insert at &: [D2, B U' B']



Hope I wrote it down correctly, sorry if I did not.

-IQubic


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## okayama (Nov 1, 2014)

My winning solutions from Asian Championship 2014 (format: Best of 2).

1st scramble: U' R' D B' R D2 L' U L' D2 B' U F2 D' B2 D' B2 R2 L2 D
1st solution: B R2 D' R' D' R' D R2 D' R2 D R' U F2 D' L D' L' D2 F2 U' D2 B R U' B' U2 R2 U' F2 D' R' U (33 moves)


Spoiler



20 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B'

2x2x2 block: U' R D F2
More square: U R2 U2
2x2x3 block: B U R' B'

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: D2 B R U' B' U2 R2 U' F2 D' R' U

2x2x3 block: B
F2L minus 1 slot: R2 D'
Finish F2L: R' D' R' D R2 D' R2 D
LL: R' U F2 D' L D' L' D2 F2 U'
Correction: D2 B R U' B' U2 R2 U' F2 D' R' U

No better solution was found in the remaining time... 



2nd scramble: U B2 U F2 U L2 B2 U2 B2 R B' R2 D L R' B F2 R2 F U
2nd solution: B L2 U B D' B D B2 L2 D' L U L' D F' L2 F B2 L2 U2 D F' R D' F2 (25 moves)


Spoiler



(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B'

2x2x2 block: F2 D R' F D'
2x2x3 block: U2 L2 B2
Orient edges: F' L2 F
Finish F2L: D' L U' L' D L2 U'
LL: U B2 D' B' D B' U' L2
Correction: B'

I wrote down this solution in 7 min, and no better solution was found in the remaining time.



I've just tried the 1st scramble again.


Spoiler



found in 5 min. (31 moves)

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B'

2x2x2 block: L' D2 L' U'
2x2x3 block: D' B' U R U' R2
Orient edges: L' D' L
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 D B D' B2
All but 3 corners: F' D B D' F B'
Correction: B'
Corner 3-cycle: B' U' F U B U' F' U

In the next 20 min., I found:

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: R B'

2x2x2 block: L' D2 L' U'
2x2x3 block: D2 B' R2
F2L minus 1 slot: L B2 L' D' *
More square: B L
All but 3 corners: B2 L U' L' U L' B'
Correction: R B'

Insert at *: D' B U B' D B U' B'

which resulted in 27 moves. Not difficult, why I couldn't find this in that time...
I should have found at least the first one in 1-hour.


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## Attila (Nov 4, 2014)

Superflip scramble: U R2 F B R B2 R U2 L B2 R U' D' R2 F R' L B2 U2 F2

I found a 22move solution 


Spoiler



L' B F' L R' F' U D F2 R' L U2 L' B2 U D' R2 F' U D L2 D2
Explanation:
L' B F' L R' F' placed 6 oriented edges to U and D face,
U D F2 @ B2 edges swap,
R' B2 U D' R2 F' U D L2 D2 all but 3 edges,
insert at @: M' B2 M B2


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## porkynator (Nov 5, 2014)

My new PB (18 HTM!) from the example solve game:

Scramble: B L2 D2 F R2 B2 R2 F U' L D B' U L' D L' B F U2 F2 U2
Solution: B2 U B U2 B' U2 B2 U' B2 U' L' R B' L D' L2 D U2 (18)

2x2x3 + EO on inverse: U2 D' L2 D L' B R' L
Switch to normal, some stuff that turned out to be reduction to <B2, U>: B2 U B U2 B'
Finish: U2 B2 U' B2 U'

Can someone check if this is optimal? It would be super cool 



Attila said:


> Superflip scramble: U R2 F B R B2 R U2 L B2 R U' D' R2 F R' L B2 U2 F2
> 
> I found a 22move solution
> 
> ...



Very nice!


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## Jakube (Nov 5, 2014)

porkynator said:


> Can someone check if this is optimal? It would be super cool



Nice solution, optimal is B' L' F2 R' B D2 R2 D L B' R' B2 R' B2 U' L2 D' (17f*) though.


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## irontwig (Nov 5, 2014)

porkynator said:


> My new PB (18 HTM!) from the example solve game:
> 
> Scramble: B L2 D2 F R2 B2 R2 F U' L D B' U L' D L' B F U2 F2 U2
> Solution: B2 U B U2 B' U2 B2 U' B2 U' L' R B' L D' L2 D U2 (18)
> ...



B' L' F2 R' B D2 R2 D L B' R' B2 R' B2 U' L2 D' (17f*)

But very cool/weird/lucky though!


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## Rcuber123 (Nov 6, 2014)

I started FMC a few weeks ago and have already done 6 attempts (36,36,36,38,30,31) but I want to start taking it more seriously.
Where can I learn insertions?


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## guysensei1 (Nov 6, 2014)

Rcuber123 said:


> I started FMC a few weeks ago and have already done 6 attempts (36,36,36,38,30,31) but I want to start taking it more seriously.
> Where can I learn insertions?



You could learn all the pure 8 move commutators. Those are really all the corner cycles you need. There are many good videos on YouTube for that. Many of those commutators might be OLLs you use. Furthermore, you probably already know the A perm and those are good for insertions too.


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## Rcuber123 (Nov 6, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> You could learn all the pure 8 move commutators. Those are really all the corner cycles you need. There are many good videos on YouTube for that. Many of those commutators might be OLLs you use. Furthermore, you probably already know the A perm and those are good for insertions too.



Thanks


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## MarcelP (Nov 6, 2014)

Rcuber123 said:


> Where can I learn insertions?



Also, I tried to explain in a video once: http://youtu.be/CAic-uTNCFI


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## Prakhar (Nov 6, 2014)

okayama said:


> My winning solutions from Asian Championship 2014 (format: Best of 2).
> 
> 1st scramble: U' R' D B' R D2 L' U L' D2 B' U F2 D' B2 D' B2 R2 L2 D


Did you not see that L2 on inverse results in a 2x2x1 or didn't use it intentionally.


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## NewCuber000 (Nov 11, 2014)

This is my PB so far, although it's actually my first REAL FMC solve that I used an hour, actually wrote the solution and backtraced. 
Scramble: U' F' B' L' R2 B' F D B2 L R B2 D L U F' B' U2 F' D2
*Solve*
Weird random block thing: B U F2 R2 F L U2 B (8/39)
F2L + Forced OLL skip: R U L F2 L' U2 R U' R2 U2 R' B U2 B' U B' R B (26/39)
PLL: R u' R U' R U R' u' R2 B U' B' U2 (39/39).
*39 moves total*
It was a little rough at first (Ok... Very), but the set up was good for that OLL skip. And the scramble wasn'y the best so it was good. It was cutting it close though, about 5 minutes left to the hour after I wrote everything down. anyway, do any of you see anything you experts would change? (I'm not color neutral, so I should probably change that somehow)


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## okayama (Nov 11, 2014)

Prakhar said:


> Did you not see that L2 on inverse results in a 2x2x1 or didn't use it intentionally.



I didn't use it intentionally.
I believed L' D2 L' U' or U' R D F2 is better than just L2.


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## Rcuber123 (Nov 11, 2014)

NewCuber000 said:


> This is my PB so far, although it's actually my first REAL FMC solve that I used an hour, actually wrote the solution and backtraced.
> Scramble: U' F' B' L' R2 B' F D B2 L R B2 D L U F' B' U2 F' D2
> *Solve*
> Weird random block thing: B U F2 R2 F L U2 B (8/39)
> ...



I'm no expert (only 7 attempts so far)but not being color neutral is a huge mistake. 
You should never limit yourself in FMC. 
It's not like in speed cubing where if you have recognition problems you lose a few seconds.
In FMC time doesn't matter.


I also tied my PB yesterday.
Scramble: the 47th scramble on David Adams weekly competition(the scramble that NewCuber000 used).

B U F' L' F' 1x2x3 (5/5)
D2 L' F D R' D' L' 2x2x3 (7/12)
U R2 B' R' B R F2L (6/18)
R' F R' F' U' R' U2 F' U' F U' R U R PLL (14/32)
R and R' obviously cancel out so
Final solution: B U F' L' F' D2 L' F D R' D' L' U R2 B' R' B F R' F' U' R' U2 F' U' F U' R U R (30)

It's also part of my mean of 3 PB 30.33 (30,31,30)


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## okayama (Nov 13, 2014)

Interesting scramble taken from this tweet: U F2 U' L2 D' R2 U B2 L2 D' F' D' F' L2 B L B2 R2 D U


Spoiler



I mainly investigated the normal scramble with premove L' .

[1] Pre-scramble: L'
2x2x2 block: D' B L2
2x2x3 block: U' B D
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: R' B' R

[2] Pre-scramble: L'
2x2x2 block: D' B L2
2x2x3 block: U' B D
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: L' R' B' R B2 L
Finish F2L: U B' R
c/e pair: R' B' R
All but 3 corners: B L B2 R' B2 R B2 L'
Corner 3-cycle: L U' L' D L U L' D'
Correction: L'
(30 moves)

[3] Pre-scramble: L'
2x2x2 block: D' R B L2 *
Pseudo 2x2x3 block: B D2 B' D2
Pseudo tripod: U R2 U' +
All but 4 corners: B R' B' R B' D B2
Correction: L'

Insert at *: U' B D2 B' U B D2 B'
Insert at +: D B U B' D' B U' B'
(26 moves)

[4] Pre-scramble: D B' L'
2x2x2 block: D' R B L2
Finish F2L: B D2 B' D U R2 U' D
All but 4 corners: D' B' D2 L' D' L2 B' L'
Correction: D B' L'

IF says the optimal insertions give 27 move.

[5] Pre-scramble: L'
2x2x2 block: D' B L2
2x2x3 block: R U R U'
All but 4 corners: D' B' D' B2 D B2 D2 B D2
Correction: L'

IF says the optimal insertions give 28 move.

[6] Pre-scramble: L'
2x2x2 block: D' B L2
2x2x3 block: R U R U'
All but 3 corners: B' D' B' D2 B2 * D' B' D B2 D2 B2 D'
Correction: L'

Insert at *: B U B' D' B U' B' D

Solution: D' B L2 R U R U' B' D' B' D2 B' U B' D' B U' B2 D B2 D2 B2 D' L' (24 moves) Finally!


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## Attila (Nov 13, 2014)

okayama said:


> Interesting scramble taken from this tweet: U F2 U' L2 D' R2 U B2 L2 D' F' D' F' L2 B L B2 R2 D U
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I found this 23 move solution,
I think, it's a nice example about how to solve many edges during corners orientation.


Spoiler



B' F L' B F' U L2 R' D R' B L D F B' L' U R2 B2 D' U2 B2 U' (23 moves)
First, I found the following start:
U D' more 2 pairs,
L' R2 + B R' U orient corners,
L2 F2 U2 R D2 R' all corners and 5 edges,

insert at the beginning: S' D' S D
insert at +: M,
which gives this start:
B' F L' B F' U L2 R' D R' B orient corners and 6 edges(and forced easy LSE case),
L D F B' L' LSE,
U R2 B2 D' U2 B2 U' permute corners.


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## zhangcy (Nov 14, 2014)

My official PB @Guangzhou Open 2014

scamble：B' D2 F2 U2 F' L2 U2 B' R2 F' R' D' R' U B U2 B2 D R2 B'

xross: B' D' F D' L2 U' L2
F2L2: B U' B'
F2L3: R U R'

it's amazing start ~

L5C：B' U B U

B' [@] D' F D' L2 U' L2 B U' B' R U R' [*] B' U B U (17f)

[@] F2 D' B D F2 D' B' D

[*] L F L' B' L F' L' B

Solution: B' F2 D' B D F2 D' B' F D' L2 U' L2 B U' B' R U R' L F L' B' L F' L' U B U (29f)


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## Attila (Nov 16, 2014)

Weekly FMC/47 scramble:
U' F' B' L' R2 B' F D B2 L R B2 D L U F' B' U2 F' D2
I DNF-ed in 1 hour,
but here is a few decent solution over time limit.


Spoiler



1.
F2 R' U' F' R B U D' R B U2 B' L U D' B' L R' U F B' R' F2 L2 U' (25 moves)
F2 R' U' F' orient corners,
R B U D' R 
B U2 B' 6 edges,
L U D' B' L R' U F B' R'
F2 L2 U' LSE.

2.
U2 F R2 B' R2 B' U B2 F2 D' F L2 D L R' B' L2 D' B' U D' B' L U' (24 moves)
on inverse:
U L' B D U' B orient corners, and 4 edges,
D L2 B R L' D' 2 more edges,
L2 F' D F2 B2 U'
B R2 B R2 F' U2 LSE.

3.
F2 U2 B2 U2 F' D2 R' U2 D2 L F' D' R L' F B2 D U2 B' L' F D' (22 moves)
on inverse:
D F' L B orient corners, and 2 edges,
U2 D' B U D' @ R 5 edges,
U B' R2 L2 F
L2 U R2 D2 R2 U2 all but 6 centres,
insert at @: E M E' M'
inverse solution:
D F' L B U2 D' B2 F' L R' D F L' D2 U2 R D2 F U2 B2 U2 F2.


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## guysensei1 (Nov 16, 2014)

My solution for FMC weekly



Spoiler



scramble:F2 D' L2 U' D2 F' R2 U D B' L2 F2 D' U2 B' F D2 U' R F

Premoves: L2 U'

L2 F' //2x2x2
B R D' R2//2x2x3
B' R D R' //EO
D2 B2 D B D2//F2L-1
B2 D' B' D B2 D' B2 D//F2L+WV
R' B L' B2 R B' R' B2 R L//PLL

Final: L2 F' B R D' R2 B' R D R' D2 B2 D B D2 B2 D' B' D B2 D' B2 D R' B L' B2 R B' R' B2 R L' U' (34)



I have a question about premoves. If, at the end of the scramble, we do, lets say U2 F2 D to undo the premoves, then are the premoves U2 F2 D or D' F2 U2?


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## TeddyKGB (Nov 16, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> I have a question about premoves. If, at the end of the scramble, we do, lets say U2 F2 D to undo the premoves, then are the premoves U2 F2 D or D' F2 U2?



U2 F2 D


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## Cubenovice (Nov 16, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> My solution for FMC weekly
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How about finishing a bit more FMC-like after your FL2-1?
B2 D' B' D B' D' B . D B2 - leaves 3 corners in 26 HTM
This part also looks very interesting for insertions.

At . insert B U B' D B U' B D' to cancel 4 moves = 40 HTM


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## Rcuber123 (Nov 16, 2014)

Cubenovice said:


> How about finishing a bit more FMC-like after your FL2-1?
> B2 D' B' D B' D' B . D B2 - leaves 3 corners in 26 HTM
> This part also looks very interesting for insertions.
> 
> At . insert B U B' D B U' B D' to cancel 4 moves = 40 HTM



You mean 30 HTM


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## guusrs (Nov 19, 2014)

Hi FMC-lovers, I just picked this message up from the german speedcubers.de site, a message from Sébastien Auroux:.
I translated it to English :

-----------------------------------------------------

FMC Europe 2015
Hi everyone,

After the FMC USA 2014 competition (https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=FMCUSA2014) there were discussions among European Degelates to organize something like this in Europe. After some tuning the date is specified:

Saturday, March 28, 2015

For those who have not heard anything from FMC USA competition, I briefly explain the principle: It is a pure FMC competition in many different locations, in this case in Europe. All participants at all sites will participate at the same time with the same Scrambles and the whole is officially one competition. So you can measure yourself with all participants at all locations!

Björn and I are both on board, which means there will be two locations, namely Paderborn and Regensburg / Munich in Germany. Overall, there have been about 20 interested delegates from across Europe.

Each delegate involved is knows that such a competition at each location will attract far fewer participants than a "normal" Competition. Nevertheless, we hope that this extraordinary concept will bring an average of more than just a handful of participants in the respective locations.

Happy cubing,

Sébastien

Edit: Of course, there are 3 trials as of Mean. 3


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## okayama (Nov 19, 2014)

guusrs said:


> Hi FMC-lovers, I just picked this message up from the german speedcubers.de site, a message from Sébastien Auroux:.
> I translated it to English :
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> ...


Thanks for the information!
The date looks nice for me as well, I would very much like to go!


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## BQ (Nov 22, 2014)

My solution on the Cross-strait FMC 2014 with the mean of 30.67, which also reaches my official best.


Spoiler



1.
scramble: D' F R' L2 F' B U R' B D' B2 U2 L2 F R2 D2 B' R2 U2 L2
l4c: U' F' U D L2 F' B' D R2 B' * R' B D B2 R' B' R B L' D L D'
*: B L' # F' L B' L' F L
#: L' F R F' L F R' F'
solution: U' F' U D L2 F' B' D R2 L2 F R F' L F R' F2 L B' L' F L R' B D B2 R' B' R B L' D L D'

2.
scramble: R2 F2 U R2 B2 F2 D' F2 U2 F2 R D' F2 L U L2 B2 U' B' U2
223: D2 B' L' R2 U B2 R' F' R
NISS:
F2L-3: F2 L F L
F2L-4: F2 L F D' L D L2
PLL: F2 L' F R' F2 L F' L' F2 L R
solution: D2 B' L' R2 U B2 R' F' L' F2 L F L' F2 R F' L F2 L2 D' L' D F' L' F2 L' F' L' F2

3.
scramble: B R' B2 R' D' R2 D2 F B R U L2 D2 B2 D2 B' R2 F' D2
222: D F2 R D2 F * U
2*122: L' D L R B R
NISS:
l3c: B D' B2 R' B' D' R2 D R B' R' D B' D' B R
*: F2 U B U' F2 U B' U'
solution: D F2 R D2 F' U B U' F2 U B' L' D L R D B D' R B R' D' R2 D B R B2 D B'


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## Yuxuibbs (Nov 23, 2014)

Michigan Mystery FMC round 1 solution: 

yes, I used straight CFOP. Deal with it.

Scramble: B2 F2 U L2 B2 U2 R2 F2 D' L2 F' R' B' U' B U' L D L' B2
Solution: U' R' U' R U L F' L' F2' U' F' L' U2' L R U R2' U2' R U' B' U B U' B U' D' L' F L2' (30)



Spoiler



Inverse: B2 L D' L' U B' U B R F L2 D F2 R2 U2 B2 L2 U' F2 B2
Solution:
L2 F' L D U B' // Cross (6)
U B' U' B // F2L 1 (4)
U R' U2 R2 U' R' // F2L 2 (6)
L' U2 L // pair up F2L 3 (3)
F U F2 L F L' // pair up F2L 4, sledgehammer in F2L 3 (6)
U' R' U R // F2L 4 (4)
U // AUF (1)


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## Cale S (Nov 23, 2014)

29 move solution for the previous weekly FMC


Spoiler



scramble: F2 D' L2 U' D2 F' R2 U D B' L2 F2 D' U2 B' F D2 U' R F

on normal: L2 F' // square
on inverse: U L2 // 2x2x2
on normal: B R D' R2 // 2x2x3
on inverse: R D R' // EO
on normal: D B2 // form pair
on inverse: B' D B // F2L - 1
on normal: B D2 B' // solve edges/to L5C

skeleton: L2 F' B R ** D' R2 D B' D2 B2 D' B * R D' R' L2 U'
insert at *: [B2, R' F2 R]
insert at **: [F' U2 F, D']

final solution: L2 F' B R F' U2 F D' F' U2 F R2 D B' D2 B2 D' B' R' F2 R B2 R' F2 R2 D' R' L2 U' (29)

I switch between normal and inverse a lot
Insertion Finder found a 27 move solution with my skeleton


First sub-30 FMC attempt if you don't count the 29 I had from the example solve thread


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## Meneghetti (Nov 24, 2014)

All my solves from Porto Alegre Open 2014 (mo3: 35/30/38 = 34.33)

Optimal insertions!  I'm pretty happy about getting optimal even in the tough cases with 4 corners! Too bad the skeletons sucked.

1. D F2 U' L2 R2 D U2 L2 B2 L D2 L2 F' L D U' L U R'


Spoiler



F2 B' L2 F' D R D // 2x2x2
(switch to inverse)
U' L B' U // pseudo 2x2x3
(switch to normal)
U' // 2x2x3
U D' B U2 D L' U // EO
B L' B * L B2 // F2L-1
L' B' L' B L B' L B L' // AB3C

insert at *: B' U' B D B' U B D' // 2 cancellations

Final solution: F2 B' L2 F' D R B U2 D L' U B L' U' B D B' U B D' L B2 L' B' L' B L B' L B L' U' B L' U *(35 OBTM)*

B' L' B L' B' L B // this is an obvious ending I should have seen, leaving 3 corners in 26 moves instead of 29 (for a 32 moves solution, according to IF)


2. B2 U2 B2 L2 R2 D L2 U' F' L' D L R D F R2 F2 L F


Spoiler



(on inverse scramble)
R' D R U' B' R B // 2x2x2
L' R U L2 R' U2 F // F2L-1 + EO
L' F L F' L' // AB4C (one corner is flipped)

Skeleton: L F L' F' L F' U2 R L2 U' R' L B' R' B U * R' D' R %
insert at *: U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R // 4 cancellations
insert at %: R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 // 1 cancellation

Final solution: L F L' F' L F' U2 R L2 U' R' L B' R' B U' R' D2 R U2 R' D R2 U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 *(30 OBTM)*


3. U2 R2 B' U2 R2 F2 U2 F D2 F2 L U' F' D' R2 U B L B' R


Spoiler



Premove: B // corrects pseudoness
D B L F' D B2 D2 B2 U' F' R F D R2 // a really bad 2x2x3
U B' R B2 R' B * // pseudo F2L-1
L' B' U' % B U L U' // AB4C (one corner is flipped)

insert at *: B' L F L' B L F' L' // 3 cancellations
insert at %: U B2 U' F U B2 U' F' // 3 cancellations

Final solution: D B L F' D B2 D2 B2 U' F' R F D R2 U B' R B2 R' L F L' B L F' L2 B U' F U B2 U' F' B U L U' B *(38 OBTM)*



And now I have an official avg12: 35, (29), 33, (38), 36, 38, 29, 30, 36, 31, 35, 30 = 33.3


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## porkynator (Nov 25, 2014)

March 28 you say? Sounds nice 

Here is an interesting scramble for corner first solvers:
U' D' F R2 D2 R' B U F2 B2 R2 U2 B2 D2 B2 L D2 R' U2
My solution:
[/spoiler]
B U D2 B' U' D L U2 D' F U2 D' B F L2 F L2 F R2 L' B' L' R D L D' (26 HTM)

* B2 U2 D' //CO
B F R2 B R2 B L2 //CP
R' F' R' L D R D' //2 more edges

* = B E' D U2 R' E' R U2 D' B' //Last 6 edges and 4 centres[/spoiler]

And something interesting form the example solve thread (aka the other FMC thread):
Scramble R L2 B2 F' D' L2 D2 B' F' L B F U' L R2 U B2 D2 B L' U B U R' F2

F2 R' L2 F' //EO
R' D2 R' F2 //Blocks
R U2 R' U2 R2 //All but 4 edges and 4 corners

Both edges and corners make a 4-cycle, so it is possible to conjugate them all to one face and solve everything with one move. However, I couldn't find anything nice, so I just gave up.
Good luck if you want to try


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## EMI (Nov 25, 2014)

porkynator said:


> And something interesting form the example solve thread (aka the other FMC thread):
> Scramble R L2 B2 F' D' L2 D2 B' F' L B F U' L R2 U B2 D2 B L' U B U R' F2
> 
> F2 R' L2 F' //EO
> ...



After the EO and Blocks: R2 U' R U2 R2 U' @ R2 U' R U2 R2 leaves 4 edges, @ = U2 B2 L D2 B2 U2 R F2 (found by IF though) results in 26.
I did however find a similar 30 move finish within 5 minutes.


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## Sebastien (Nov 26, 2014)

The first scramble from the current German forum's FMC competition: D' L D B D2 R D F' U L2 F D2 F' R2 L2 F' U2 B 

I found a 19 move solution after ~10 minutes. Moritz Karl also found the same solution modulo switching independently.

Hint: 17 moves to L3C with really nice cancelation.


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## obelisk477 (Nov 26, 2014)

Sebastien said:


> The first scramble from the current German forum's FMC competition: D' L D B D2 R D F' U L2 F D2 F' R2 L2 F' U2 B
> 
> I found a 19 move solution after ~10 minutes. Moritz Karl also found the same solution modulo switching independently.
> 
> Hint: 17 moves to L3C with really nice cancelation.



What speedsolving method do you use, out of curiosity?


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## Sebastien (Nov 26, 2014)

No idea why that's of interest, but I use Fridrich.


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## obelisk477 (Nov 26, 2014)

Well I know that practicing Roux has helped my block building significantly, and so I was wondering if you used a block building type method as your speed solving method, which could contribute to your ability at FMC


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## Sebastien (Nov 26, 2014)

Oh, well, no, but I have used block building in FMC ever since, even before I knew any advanced FMC technique.


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## Coolster01 (Nov 29, 2014)

Within 3 months I did 125 (128 including my official) FMC solves. I typed in the stats and got my PBs:

Single: Official 27
Mean of 3: 29.333
Average of 5: 30.000
Average of 12: 31.600
Average of 50: 34.977
Average of 100: 35.444


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## guysensei1 (Nov 29, 2014)

Coolster01 said:


> Within 3 months I did 125 (128 including my official) FMC solves. I typed in the stats and got my PBs:
> 
> Single: Official 27
> Mean of 3: 29.333
> ...



Nice!


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## Mikel (Nov 30, 2014)

Here is my official PB single from Florida Feast 2014



Spoiler



n: L' U2 R U2 F2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B' L R U' R' F L' D L U2 
i: U2 L' D' L F' R U R' L' B L2 D2 L2 D2 F2 U2 R' U2 L 

on inverse:

D R F R2 D2 R2 D' //cross (7|7)
U B U' B' //F2L 1 (4|11)
U L U2 L' U L U' L' //F2L 2 (8|19)
U R U' R' L' U' L //F2L 3 (7|26)
U' R U R' U2 R U' R' //F2L 4 (8|34)

switch to normal:

F R U R' U' F' //EO^1 (6|40)
B U L U' L' B' //EO^2 (6|46)
R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' D //OLL (10|56)
U F U' B U2 F' U F U2 B' F' U D' //PLL (13|69)

solution: F R U R' U' F' B U L U' L' B' R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' D U F U' B U2 F' U F U2 B' F' U D' R U R' U2 R U' R' U L' U L R U R' U' L U L' U' L U2 L' U' B U B' U' D R2 D2 R2 F' R' D' (69 moves)


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## guysensei1 (Nov 30, 2014)

Mikel said:


> Here is my official PB single from Florida Feast 2014
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hahahahah


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## Mikel (Nov 30, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> hahahahah



I don't see whats funny. I learned NISS to get my official PB.


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## obelisk477 (Nov 30, 2014)

Mikel said:


> I don't see whats funny. I learned NISS to get my official PB.



Next time, 69 move solution with 2 switches and an insertion


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## Julian (Nov 30, 2014)

Mikel said:


> Here is my official PB single from Florida Feast 2014
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dang, you could have saved a move by combining the AUFs before and after PLL into one AUF.
Oh well, better luck next time.


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## Dimeg (Nov 30, 2014)

So I decided to start cubing again. Trying something different, and ended up here.
An hour was way to little time. It took me over a day. The blockbuilding and fiddling around with the cubes was addicting. 
I hope some of you advanced solvers are willing to take a look, to see if I'm on the right track. 


Week48 scramble;B2 D L2 R2 B2 U F2 D2 R2 B2 D2 L F2 D’ R’ B2 U R2 B R2 U’




Spoiler



R D // 2x2
L //make 2 2x1 pairs in the u-layer.
U R U //
B2 L B’ U’ B U //setup heise-ish? kind of have a bunch of blocks trying to connect
R B2 // 2X2X3
D’ F’ D’ F D’ F L’ F’ // F2L-1 
Leaving me with 5 corners and auf



I was fairly happy to make a 22 move skeleton. I'm not able to apply commutators so it leaves me with a 48 move solution (which I will spare you). 
I noticed some corners are misoriented and some need permutation. 

Is is better to avoid misoriented corners so you can use an 8 or 9 move commutator to correct them? or is there no difference?


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## guysensei1 (Nov 30, 2014)

Dimeg said:


> So I decided to start cubing again. Trying something different, and ended up here.
> An hour was way to little time. It took me over a day. The blockbuilding and fiddling around with the cubes was addicting.
> I hope some of you advanced solvers are willing to take a look, to see if I'm on the right track.
> 
> ...



If you have 5 corners remaining, the 'best case' is a 5-cycle of corners, which will only need 2 commutators to solve. If you have twisted corners as any of the 5, you'll need more than 2.


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## Dimeg (Nov 30, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> If you have 5 corners remaining, the 'best case' is a 5-cycle of corners, which will only need 2 commutators to solve. If you have twisted corners as any of the 5, you'll need more than 2.



So I it would be best to avoid twisted corners so I can solve them with 2 commutators, solving 2 first (while cycling 3) and finish with cycling the last 3 ?


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## guysensei1 (Nov 30, 2014)

Dimeg said:


> So I it would be best to avoid twisted corners so I can solve them with 2 commutators, solving 2 first (while cycling 3) and finish with cycling the last 3 ?



Yes.


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## Randomno (Nov 30, 2014)

How efficient would 4 1x2x2 squares, then ZBLS, then ZBLL be?


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## irontwig (Nov 30, 2014)

Randomno said:


> How efficient would 4 1x2x2 squares, then ZBLS, then ZBLL be?



Not too efficient, as ZBLS and ZBLL would take an average of 19-20 moves, this would leave only 9-10 moves for F2L-1 if you want to get sub-30.


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## Randomno (Nov 30, 2014)

irontwig said:


> Not too efficient, as ZBLS and ZBLL would take an average of 19-20 moves, this would leave only 9-10 moves for F2L-1 if you want to get sub-30.



There isn't an F2L-1 though...


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## irontwig (Nov 30, 2014)

Yes, there is.


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## Randomno (Nov 30, 2014)

irontwig said:


> Yes, there is.



What's F2L-1 then, if it's not F2L first slot?


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## irontwig (Nov 30, 2014)

F2L minus a slot perhaps?


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## Torch (Nov 30, 2014)

Florida Feast 2014

Scramble: L' U2 R U2 F2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B' L R U' R' F L' D L U2

L' D L//Another 2x2x1
B2 R B U' B2 F//2x2x3
R2 B' D2 B//F2L minus 1
R' D R D' *R D R' D'*//F2L
*D R D' R* D R2 D2 R' D R' D' R2 D//LL

Solution: L' D L B2 R B U' B2 F R2 B' D2 B R' D R D' R2 D R2 D2 R' D R' D' R2 D (27)

Luck is the best FMC method


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## Jimmy Liu (Nov 30, 2014)

Torch said:


> Scramble: L' U2 R U2 F2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B' L R U' R' F L' D L U2


This scramble is ridiculous!


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## mycube (Nov 30, 2014)

My 23 from Franconia Winter 
Scramble: L2 R' D2 R D2 U2 L' R2 U2 R' F' L F2 D' R2 B' L B2 U' L'
Inverser: L U B2 L' B R2 D F2 L' F R U2 R2 L U2 D2 R' D2 R L2

Inverser:
D' F U2 F' - zwei Pairs und 1x2x2 [4/4]
R D' R - ein 2x2x2 [3/7]
L' B' L B L - F2L-1 [5/12]
switch:
B U' L' B' L B' U B' - LL und Finish [8/20]

L3C:
B U' L' B' L B' U B' L' B' L' B L R' . D R' F U2 F' D
. = L' D R2 D' L D R2 D' [8-5/23]

Solution:
B U' L' B' L B' U B' L' B' L' B R' D R2 D' L D R F U2 F' D - 23 Moves

lucky insertion, but yay 

and some LOL optimal solution I found some days ago:
B U' L2 U' B F2 D F' D F B' U2 B' U R U' F2 B'

F2 R2 B : R2 U R' U' B' D2 B
: = B' R' B L2 B' R B L2

Solution:
F2 R B L2 B' R B L2 R2 U R' U' B' D2 B - 15 Moves


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## Kit Clement (Nov 30, 2014)

Jimmy Liu said:


> This scramble is ridiculous!


Curious to see others try it - Justin, Ryan and I ran into parity on a ridiculous number of skeletons. I think I had five starts thrown out before I got 21 to 4 corners with 7 minutes to go.


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## ortwin (Nov 30, 2014)

Does anybody know where I can find an archive of the old mustcube weekly contest? 
That would be great!


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## porkynator (Nov 30, 2014)

Torch said:


> Florida Feast 2014
> Scramble: L' U2 R U2 F2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B' L R U' R' F L' D L U2



25:


Spoiler



L' D L //Another 2x2x1 (3/3)
B R' F D //Expand to 3x2x1, accidentally orienting edges (4/7)
U R2 B' D' B //Domino reduction (5/12)
D L2 D2 L2 //All but 3 moves and a J perm (4/16)
B2 L U L' B2 R D' R U //J perm and last moves (with some cancellations) (9/25)



26 (with IF's help):


Spoiler



Moves in brackets are done on inverse scramble
L' D L //Another 2x2x1 (3/3)
F2 L //Another 2x2x1 (2/5)
(R F D2 B2) //Pseudo F2L -1 piece (4/9)
D B2 F U2 B F' //F2L (6/15)
F L U L' U' F' L' //All but 3 corners (5/20)

L' D L F2 L D B2 F U2 B L U L' [@1] U' F' L' B2 D2 F' R'
Insert at @1: L F L' B L F' L' B'
Fewest moves: 26. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: L' D L F2 L D B2 F U2 B L U F L' B L F' L' B' U' F' L' B2 D2 F' R'



An F2L in 12:


Spoiler



Premoves: U B2
F' B D2
B2 D F' D2 U L' D


----------



## EMI (Dec 1, 2014)

I did 13 solves in a German forum, I'll consider this PB average of 12 (I did do solves in between, but I didn't care enough to create a "global session" for them):
30, 28, 28, 28, (DNF), 27, 24, 32, 30, 29, 27, (22) = 28.30 Average of 12
The first solve was a 33 so I decided to roll it.



Spoiler: Solutions



1. L2 U' R2 B2 D F2 U2 F2 R2 U B' L' D2 F2 R B2 D' U' L F' 

Pseudo-2x2x3: B2 D' F' L' D' F' L
Switch and EO: F2 R2 F2 D' F'
L4C: R D2 R D' R2 D'

Skeleton: B2 D' # F' L' D' F' L D @ R2 D R' D2 R' F D F2 R2 F2

@ = D' F' D B D' F D B'
# = D' F U2 F' D F U2 F'

Total: B2 D2 F U2 F' D F U2 F2 L' D' F' L F' D B D' F D B' R2 D R' D2 R' F D F2 R2 F2 (30)

2. B2 L2 F' L2 F' D2 U2 L2 D' L D2 B L2 B U F' U B2 F2

F2L-1: L' D' B' U R2 B U' B2 R' @ (9/9)
L4C: D F D2 L D L2 # F L (8/17)

@ = R B L' B' R' B L B' (8-3/22)
# = L2 U R U' L2 U R' U' (8-2/28)

Total: L' D' B' U R2 B U' B' L' B' R' B L B' D F D2 L D U R U' L2 U R' U' F L (28)

3. R' U2 R D2 F2 L F2 R F2 U2 B' F D F L F R' U F2 R

2x2x3 and EO: B D' L F' U' @ B L # F2 U' (9/9)
AB5C: R F2 R' F2 R2 F2 R' F2 (8/17)

@ = U F D F' U' F D' F' (8-4/21)
# = L F L' B2 L F' L' B2 (8-1/28)

Total: B D' L D F' U' F D' F' B L2 F L' B2 L F' L' B2 F2 U' R F2 R' F2 R2 F2 R' F2 (28)

4. R B' U R2 D B' D2 R' D' R U2 R' D2 F2 R2 F2 L U2 L' D2

2x2x2: D2 L2 B2 L2
2x2x3: U' B' R U R2
Switch, F2L-1 and EO: U2 R' U' R U'
L4C: B U' B2 U

Skeleton: D2 L2 B2 L2 U' B' R U R2 U' B2 U # B' U R' U R U2 @ (18)

@ = U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R (8-4/22)
# = U' L' U R U' L U R' (8-6/28)

Total: D2 L2 B2 L2 U' B' R U R2 U' B2 L' U R U' L U R' B' U R' U D2 R U2 R' D2 R (28)

5. U2 R' D2 R2 F2 L B2 D2 R2 U2 L' D' F2 U' R2 D' U' F' R D

DNF

6. R2 D2 B2 D B2 F2 L2 R2 U L B' U L' R' D2 U2 R D L

1x2x2: F L2 (2/2)
Switch
1x2x3: F2 U' F (3/5)
Switch
2x2x3: F D R' D2 (4/9)
Finish: F' L' F U' F2 D F D' F (9-2/16)

3E3C: F L2 F D R' D2 F' L' F # U' F2 D F U @ D' F2

Edges: @ = U2 R' L F2 L' R (6-1/21)
Corners: # = F' D' B2 D F D' B2 D (8-2/27)

Total: F L2 F D R' D2 F' L' D' B2 D F D' B2 D U' F2 D F U' R' L F2 L' R D' F2 (27)

7. F2 R2 D2 B' F2 R2 D2 B D B2 F U2 L D2 R B F' D' F

Premoves: F B' (2/2)
1x2x3: B2 L R (3/5)
2x2x3: B' U' F' L F' (5/10)
F2L: R' B' R B' D' B' (6/16)
LL: B' L B L' D2 L' D2 L D (9-1/24)

Total: B2 L R B' U' F' L F' R' B' R B' D' B2 L B L' D2 L' D2 L D F B' (24)

8. L U D' B2 D' R2 B U' L D2 R F' D2 R2 D2 B' R2 F D2

1x2x3: D L D L F2
Switch
2x2x3: F' L2 R' B L'
Pseudo-F2L-1: D' B R B' D
AB3E: F D' F' D R' D R D' R D'

Skeleton: D L D L F2 D R' D R' D' R D' F D F' D' @ B R' B' D L B' R L2 F (25)

@ = D2 L2 U2 B U2 L2 D2 F

Total: D L D L F2 D R' D R' D' R D' F D F' D L2 U2 B U2 L2 D2 F B R' B' D L B' R L2 F (32)

9. B L U2 D' F R' D2 R2 B' U' D2 B2 L2 F2 R2 F' D2 B L2 U2

2x2x2: U B U' B U B2 R2 (7/7)
2x2x3: U2 B U (3/10)
Switch
L3C: L U B U' B L' B L B D' B' D L2 (13/23)

Skeleton: U B U' B U B2 R2 U2 B U L2 D' @ B D B' L' B' L B' U B' U' L'

@ = D2 R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' (8-1/30)

Total: U B U' B U B2 R2 U2 B U L2 D R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' B D B' L' B' L B' U B' U' L' (30)

10. D2 R' B2 L F2 U2 R2 D2 R2 F' R F' D L U' B D' B'

On Inverse with Premove L2:
2x2x3 and orient 2 edges: U B L2 R B2 R' B' R F D (11/11)
EO and blocks: U F' U' (3/14)
AB3C3E: R F' R2 (3/17)
Edges: D2 R B R' B' D2 (6/23)

Skeleton: L2 D2 B R B' R' D2 R2 F @ R' U F U' D' F' R' B R B2 R' L2 B' U'

@ = F' D2 F U2 F' D2 F U2 (8-2/29)

Total: L2 D2 B R B' R' D2 R2 D2 F U2 F' D2 F U2 R' U F U' D' F' R' B R B2 R' L2 B' U' (29)

11. L2 D F2 R2 F2 D R2 D2 F2 U' B2 R U2 B F' U' F' D F U' R'

Premove F' (1/1)
2x2x2: @ B R D (3/4)
2x2x3: R' U' B2 R (4/8)
EO: L' B' L2 U2 L' (5/13)
L3C: U B2 U' B' U' B' U' B2 (8/21)

@ = D B U' B' D' B U B' (8-2/27)

Total: D B U' B' D' B U R D R' U' B2 R L' B' L2 U2 L' U B2 U' B' U' B' U' B2 F' (27)

12. D2 F U2 F' D2 U2 R2 B F2 D2 R2 D R2 F' U2 B2 U L' D' F

Premove: R (1/1)
2x2x3: F' B' L' B2 R D' (6/7)
1x2x2: U2 F U' F' (4/11)
Switch, F2L: U2 F U2 (3/14)
LL: L' F' L' U L U' F L F (9-1/22)

Total: F' B' L' B2 R D' U2 F U' F2 L' F' U L' U' L F L U2 F' U2 R (22)



Last three solves are 26.00 Mean of 3. I'll now include each solve I do in a big session, like porkynator. Let's see if I can roll the 30.


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## Dimeg (Dec 2, 2014)

Found myself some stickers trying corner3-cycles. And nothing worked.. After like 20 tries. I recognized the problem; one of the stickers was on the wrong side of the corner..  So dumb..

L' U2 R U2 F2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B' L R U' R' F L' D L U2 


Spoiler



L'D'L // 2x2 
B' L U2 L' 1x3x2
F' U' B' U' / /eo 
F2 B' // f2l-1 
z2 
U L U' L U2 // L5c


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## EMI (Dec 5, 2014)

Rolled five solves into my average of 12, it's now 27.90 (see two posts above):

27, 24, (32), 30, 29, 27, (22), 31, 27, 28, 27, 29



Spoiler: another five solutions






Spoiler: this one is from the current weekly competition



1. R2 D2 F2 R U2 F2 L2 U2 B2 R' D2 B' L D' R D U2 B' F' R2 D'

Premove: R'
223: D U2 L2 R2 B' L' F R'
Switch, F2L-1 and EO: F' U F' U
L4C: F2 R' F2 R F R' F' R

Skeleton: D U2 R2 L2 @ B' L' # F R2 F R F' R' F2 R F2 U' F U' F R' (20)

@ = L F2 L' B2 L F2 L' B2 (8-2)
# = L' B L F L' B' L F' (8-3)

Total: D U2 R2 L' F2 L' B2 L F2 L' B L2 B L F L' B' L R2 F R F' R' F2 R F2 U' F U' F R' (31)



2. D B2 R2 B2 U2 B2 D2 U' R2 B2 U' F' R' B2 L' F2 R' D' B' L' R

Pseudo-2x2x2: D L2 F'
Pseudo-2x2x3: U' @ L' B' L
Add premoves: D # B (orienting two edges)
Finish: R B' R U R' U' B'

@ = U F D F' U' F D' F'
# = U F2 U' B2 U F2 U' B2

Total: D L2 D F' U' F D' F' L' B' L R B' R U R' U' B' D U F2 U' B2 U F2 U' B' (27)

3. R2 F' D2 L2 D2 B' L2 D2 F2 D2 R B L D' U R' D' B' D B2 R'

2x2x2: L' D U2 B2 F2 L
Switch and pseudo-F2L-1: R D R2 D B2 R'
Switch, pseudoness and EO: B R
AB3C: D' F2 D2 F' D' F D' F2

Skeleton: L' D U2 B2 F2 L B R D' F2 D2 F' D' F D' F2 R B2 D' R2 D' @ R' (22)

@ = D B D' F' D B' D' F

Total: L' D U2 B2 F2 L B R D' F2 D2 F' D' F D' F2 R B2 D' R2 B D' F' D B' D' F R' (28)

4. B U2 F' R2 U2 F' D2 F' R2 F' R' D B U F' R2 D2 L R U

2x2x2: U L2 F L2 R' U'
Switch and pseudo-2x2x3: B D L2
Switch and pseudo-F2L-1: L2 R' B2 R
L3C: B2 D' L B' L' B D B'

Skeleton: U L2 F L2 R' U' L2 R' B2 R B2 D' L B' L' @ B D B' L2 D' B'

@ = L U R' U' L' U R U'

Total: U L2 F L2 R' U' L2 R' B2 R B2 D' L B' U R' U' L' U R U' B D B' L2 D' B' (27)

5. U' F R2 D2 F2 D2 L D' F' R2 U2 F2 B L2 B2 R2 B U2 F2

Premove: F'
2x2x2: L' # U F2
2x2x3 and EO: R B2 U @ R2 B R'
L4C: U' B2 U2 B2 U2 B' U B

@ = U' R' D' R U R' D R
# = L B L' F2 L B' L' F2

Total: B L' F2 L B' L' F2 U F2 R B2 R' D' R U R' D R' B R' U' B2 U2 B2 U2 B' U B F' (29)



For the 28, I found a better solution three minutes after the cut, it would have been a 25 and a 27.6 of 12... oh well.


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## TheDubDubJr (Dec 7, 2014)

mycube said:


> My 23 from Franconia Winter
> Scramble: L2 R' D2 R D2 U2 L' R2 U2 R' F' L F2 D' R2 B' L B2 U' L'
> Inverser: L U B2 L' B R2 D F2 L' F R U2 R2 L U2 D2 R' D2 R L2
> 
> ...



Way to join the 23 club


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## guysensei1 (Dec 9, 2014)

Here's a sample FMC attempt. Any tips? (currently learning commutators but I'm terribly bad at it so this solve didn't have any)

Scramble: R2 B' L2 B U2 F D2 B' R2 D2 B' R B' U' F' D' B' F L' B 
Premove: U' D
L B R2 F2 D' B' D2 F D'//2x2x3
L' B' U' B2 L B'//EO
L U' L2 *U2* //F2L-1
*U'* L' U' L' U' L U *L U* //insert edge+ solve OLL
*U' L* D' L2 U L' U2 R' D F2 D' R *U2 D*//PLL

Final: L B R2 F2 D' B' D2 F D' L' B' U' B2 L B' L U' L2 U L' U' L' U' L U L2 D' L2 U L' U2 R' D F2 D' R U D2, 38 moves


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## Randomno (Dec 9, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Here's a sample FMC attempt. Any tips? (currently learning commutators but I'm terribly bad at it so this solve didn't have any)
> 
> Scramble: R2 B' L2 B U2 F D2 B' R2 D2 B' R B' U' F' D' B' F L' B
> Premove: U' D
> ...



I ended up an E slice away. :/


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## TDM (Dec 9, 2014)

Randomno said:


> I ended up an E slice away. :/


I don't.
E: copied+pasted the other solution, that also works.


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## guysensei1 (Dec 11, 2014)

I know that pure 8 move corner commutators are most often used for insertions in FMC. Is it possible that one may run through an entire skeleton without finding a spot where the corners can be cycled with 8 moves? Should A9s and other more complicated commutators be used?


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## Kit Clement (Dec 11, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> I know that pure 8 move corner commutators are most often used for insertions in FMC. Is it possible that one may run through an entire skeleton without finding a spot where the corners can be cycled with 8 moves? Should A9s and other more complicated commutators be used?



I know that Jay has had skeletons with no 8 movers before, but they're extremely rare. In a 60 minute time window, I don't think it's usually worth the time looking for insertions longer than 8 moves. If your skeleton is that bad for insertions and you have the time, you're probably better served looking for an alternate finish.


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## EMI (Dec 11, 2014)

It's totally possible, it can propably even happen that 10 moves is optimal for a single insertion. On the other hand, I've seen cases where 9-movers somehow resulted in better insertions than 8-movers.
This can be especially crazy when you have two insertions. Sometimes the optimal insertion requires some weird 9-mover as your first insertion, and then the second one cancels a lot.
At German Open we had a funny example of the "unfairness" of insertions:
1. Jan 27 (23 for L3C)
2. me 28 (22 for L3C)
3. Sébastien 30 (21 for L3C!)


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## guysensei1 (Dec 12, 2014)

EMI said:


> info





Kit Clement said:


> more info


Thanks! 


Are transparent 3x3s allowed to be used in FMC?


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## Sebastien (Dec 12, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Are transparent 3x3s allowed to be used in FMC?



No, the same puzzle rules apply for all events.


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## okayama (Dec 13, 2014)

Hi,

Thanks to guys for letting me know FMC mean of 3 competitions in other times,
like Cross-strait FMC 2014, Guangdong Open 2014, Master Challenge 2014,
although I could not make it.

FYI, in Japan, FMC mean of 3 competition will be held next month:
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=KantoFMC2015
at Kawasaki, 30-min train access from Haneda airport.
Registration has already started.


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## okayama (Dec 14, 2014)

My solution from Tachikawa 3x3 Fest 2014 (got 3rd place).

Scramble: F U2 B2 L2 B2 F D2 L2 F L D R U2 R F' D F2 U2 B' D'
Solution: L D' R2 F' R' B2 R L B L D' B' L' F2 R' Bw2 B2 U2 Bw2 B2 U2 R F2 B2 L2 B L2 B' L B' (30 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: B'

2x2x2 block: L D' R2 F'
2x2x3 block: R' B2 R L B L D'
F2L minus 1 slot: B' L' * B2
All but 4 edges: L2 B L2 B' L
Correction: B'

Insert at *: F2 R' (S2 U2 S2 U2) R F2

Many promising starts were found. For example,

2x2x2 block: L D' R2 F'
2x2x3 block: L' F' D2 F L' D'
F2L minus 1 slot: L B L B2

looks great, but I couldn't finish it nicely.

On inverse,

[1] B2 L U2 B'
[2] L U2 R' B'
[3] B2 F R2 D

also look interesting, but I couldn't find any good continuation.


Congrats to 1st & 2nd place, Sub 30 winners!


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## Jakube (Dec 14, 2014)

Anyone wanna give this one a try. 


F' D2 B2 F U2 B' D2 R2 U2 F2 L2 D' L2 U2 R' F U2 R' F' U B

Got it today at qqtimer. There's a really easy F2L-1 with EO in 8 moves. But couldn't find any good ending (well I didn't spend much time on it)



Spoiler



B2 D' L2 D (2x2x3)
U F' U' R (F2L-1 + EO)


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## Sebastien (Dec 14, 2014)

hm, the best I could find was U F' D' F D U' F2 to leave a 5-cycle of corners, the IF gives 26.


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## Sebastien (Dec 14, 2014)

ok, no, this is better:

L5C: B2 D' L2 D U F' U' R D' F' D F D' F' D F'

The IF finde 10 moves cancelation, giving a 22 move solution.


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## Dimeg (Dec 17, 2014)

*Week 51 scramble*

3x3x3 Fewest Moves (*week 51 scramble!*) 
1. B D2 R' U2 B D2 R U D' R' B' L2 U2 F' D2 B U2 F L2 U2 F 



Spoiler



U2 L D2 B' F D' // 2x2x2 used B' to orient the FR-edge 
U2 B' R // 2x2x3 
U B U2 L' B // 3rd pair skipped L because of 4th pair. 
L2 U L' // F2L Here I switched from blockbuilding to F2L (17 moves) 
f RUR' U' RUR'U' f' // OLL (27 moves) 
B2 F R F' L2 F R' F' L2 B2 // A-perm L3C (37 moves)



Basicly my first complete solve, didnt look at the time, but it was over 1 hour for sure. 
The beginning was quite promising. In the end I messed up. 20 moves LL isn't what I see in this thread.. 
When I have time, I will take a look at the BH-tutorial. Hope that will help.


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## Prakhar (Dec 17, 2014)

Dimeg said:


> 3x3x3 Fewest Moves (*week 51 scramble!*)
> 1. B D2 R' U2 B D2 R U D' R' B' L2 U2 F' D2 B U2 F L2 U2 F
> 
> 
> ...


Nice beginner solve. You must not complete F2L until an easy LL (<9 moves) is there.Also, you could have done the A perm (Corner 3 cycle) in the middle of the solve causing move cancellation.


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## Dimeg (Dec 17, 2014)

Prakhar said:


> Nice beginner solve. You must not complete F2L until an easy LL (<9 moves) is there.Also, you could have done the A perm (Corner 3 cycle) in the middle of the solve causing move cancellation.



Thanks. I was aiming for F2L-1 when I saw the last pair was 3 moves away. Maybe it would have been better to orient the edges and leave the corners. 
I will definitely take a look at insertions and find myself a bunch of stickers


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## TeddyKGB (Dec 17, 2014)

Here is my winning 29.67 mean from Carnegie Mellon Winter 2014

*Scramble #1 (28)*



Spoiler



Scramble - L2 D2 F' L U L2 F B D2 L' B2 L2 B2 U' B2 L2 D L2 D F2 D2

on inverse:

U2 F' D F2 B' D //2x2x2

Switch to normal 

U' F' U' F2 //2x2x3

Switch to inverse

F U2 F' //pseudo F2L -1
L2 U L' U' L2 U // L4C

Skeleton - @ U' F' U' F2 U' L2 * U L U' L2 F U2 F' D' B F2 D' F U2 (19)

Insert at @: F D F' U' F D' F' U (3 moves cancel)
Insert at *: L' D' L U L' D L U' (4 moves cancel)

Solution - F D F' U' F D' F2 U' F2 U' L D' L U L' D L2 U' L2 F U2 F' D' B F2 D' F U2 (28)


*Scramble #2 (26)*



Spoiler



Scramble - F' D F D2 B2 U' R U R2 B R' L2 F' D2 L2 B R2 U2 F2

Pre move - L2

F' @ U D' R //2x2x2
L' D' L D B' //F2L -2
D2 L D' L' //F2L -1
D' R' B R B' D //L3E

Insert at @: L' D' L D U B' D B D U' (4 moves cancel)

Solution - F' L' D' L D U B' D B R L' D' L D B' D2 L D' L' D' R' B R B' D L2 (26)


*Scramble #3 (35)*



Spoiler



Scramble - D' F U2 R' B L' F D L' F' U R L D2 L F2 R D2 R F2

Lets be honest, does anybody really care what this one was?


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## lerenard (Dec 19, 2014)

Can I get some help with a scramble please?

B L' D L' R' U' F D R2 D2 B R B' F D' F' R F' R' F R' D F

Here was my solution:

F U' B' D L' U' F' R U' F B2 D2 F2 // really short F2L-ish // 13
L U2 L' B' R B U B' F' U' F U R U2 R' F R2 U R' U' R U R' U' F' // ridiculously long orientation phase // 25/38
L' U' L U L F' L2 U L U L' U' L F U2 // T-perm. // 15/53
Anyone know how I could shorten that orientation? This was my second beginning I tried and I had 30 minutes to work on it. I don't know full OLL or ZBLL or anything like that...

Alternatively, is there a way I should have seen that this wasn't a beginning worth saving? I'm new to FMC, so I'm very open to suggestions. I know you generally should try to find an insertion and stuff like that, but I just so happened to know the WV case and I already had the pair made so I used that and was left with a T-perm.


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## Coolster01 (Dec 21, 2014)

Stupid 28... only took 10 minutes and it had 11 move 2x2x3 sooo yeah... pretty sad.



Spoiler



Scramble: F2 D2 L2 B F2 R2 D2 R2 U2 R2 B' D R' U F2 U2 B D2 U F U2
Inverse: U2 F’ U’ D2 B’ U2 F2 U’ R D’ B R2 U2 R2 D2 R2 F2 B’ L2 D2 F2

inverse: U F’ B’ U B L' R2 // almost 2x2x3
SWITCH
R2 L B’ U’ B F U’ premove on normal:

B D L2 D’ // finish 2x2x3
B’ U B2 U2 B’ U // 3rd f2l slot
B' L' B2 L // pair up last f2l pair
B2 L’ B2 R B’ L B *R'* // WV cancelled with J perm
*R2* L B’ U’ B F U’ // fix premove

final (28): B D L2 D’ B’ U B2 U2 B’ U B’ L’ B2 L B2 L’ B2 R B’ L B R L B’ U’ B F U’



just got a 27 (tied pb)... gonna go for pb mo3....


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## guysensei1 (Dec 21, 2014)

lerenard said:


> Can I get some help with a scramble please?
> 
> B L' D L' R' U' F D R2 D2 B R B' F D' F' R F' R' F R' D F
> 
> ...


That blockbuilding is rather weird. I would suggest using 2x2x2->2x2x3->F2L-1 (which is an XXXcross). Of course you shouldn't restrict yourself to just this but it's a good way to go.

Also, if you have a T perm with a U2 AUF, I would suggest using that one alg that solves the T perm and the AUF simultaneously, saving you 1 move. Can't recall what it is right now but it's out there.


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## mDiPalma (Dec 22, 2014)

how come the l3c case i get on the inverse scramble (in NISS) is not related to the commutator case on the total skeleton?

the corners involved are different. why is that?


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## Memphis3000 (Dec 22, 2014)

I am really bad at FMC, but I really want to improve. Can someone help me to get better, because I kinda suck. I did an example solve that was pretty good for me.(It is the weekly comp scramble)

Scramble: D L U2 R2 L U' B2 R B L' D' F' R' D' B2 L D U2 B' F2
2x2x2: Z2 R B' U L U' L U2 L' (8/8)
2X2X3: U' F2 B U' B' U2 B' R B (9/17)
F2L-1: U2 F2 R U' R' U2 F U F' (9/26)
LS: R U' R' U' F' U' F (7/33)
OLL: R U R' U' Lw' L U R U' Rw' (10/43)
PLL: U' F2 U' R' L F2 R L' U' F2 (10/53)
Final Solution:Z2 R B' U L U' L U2 L' U' F2 B U' B' U2 B' R B U2 F2 R U' R' U2 F U F' R U' R' U' F' U' F R U R' U' Lw' L U R U' Rw' U' F2 U' R' L F2 R L' U' F2


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## wontolla (Dec 22, 2014)

Memphis3000 said:


> I am really bad at FMC, but I really want to improve. Can someone help me to get better, because I kinda suck. I did an example solve that was pretty good for me.(It is the weekly comp scramble)
> 
> Scramble: D L U2 R2 L U' B2 R B L' D' F' R' D' B2 L D U2 B' F2
> 2x2x2: Z2 R B' U L U' L U2 L' (8/8)
> ...



Don't do OLL and PLL. Instead try to orient and permute edges and solve the corners using commutators.


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## Memphis3000 (Dec 22, 2014)

wontolla said:


> Don't do OLL and PLL. Instead try to orient and permute edges and solve the corners using commutators.



Ok thanks


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## Rcuber123 (Dec 22, 2014)

Memphis3000 said:


> I am really bad at FMC, but I really want to improve. Can someone help me to get better, because I kinda suck. I did an example solve that was pretty good for me.(It is the weekly comp scramble)
> 
> Scramble: D L U2 R2 L U' B2 R B L' D' F' R' D' B2 L D U2 B' F2
> 2x2x2: Z2 R B' U L U' L U2 L' (8/8)
> ...



Get a skip or do what wonttola said.

Also work on block building.


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## porkynator (Dec 23, 2014)

mDiPalma said:


> how come the l3c case i get on the inverse scramble (in NISS) is not related to the commutator case on the total skeleton?
> 
> the corners involved are different. why is that?



You know how when you use NISS your blocks are different (and placed differently) in normal and inverse scramble? It's the same thing. Understanding simple premoves (1 or 2 HTM) better will probably make this more obvious.


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## mDiPalma (Dec 23, 2014)

what do you mean "the blocks are different"?

shouldnt they be the same?

if [SCRAMBLE] + [MOVES] creates a 3x2x2 block, then [MOVES] ' + [SCRAMBLE] ' has to create the same block, right?

just like how the T-perm backwards sets up the T-perm.


is this only the case when you switch back and forth from the Normal to the Inverse scramble multiple times?


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## Cale S (Dec 24, 2014)

24 move solution for weekly competition (not weekly FMC) with ridiculous cancellations



Spoiler



Scramble: D' F2 U F2 L2 D B2 L2 D' L2 U' L D F2 R' B F2 R D R2 D

on normal: R // form a second pair
on inverse: D2 R' B2 D U' // 2x2x2
on normal: L' U L U // 2x2x3
F2 L F2 L2 F // F2L - 1
F L' F' L D' L' D L // up to two twisted corners

skeleton: R L' U L U F2 L F2 L2 F2 L' F' L D' * L' D L U D' B2 R D2
At * I inserted [U, L' D L] which cancels 8 moves

new skeleton: R L' ** U L U' F2 L F2 L2 F2 L' F' L D' U L' D L D' B2 R D2
now at ** I inserted [R, U L U'] which cancels 6 moves

final solution: R2 L' U L U' R' U2 F2 L F2 L2 F2 L' F' L D' U L' D L D' B2 R D2 (24)

14 moves cancelled total, so twisting the two corners with 2 inserted 3-cycles only added 2 moves. 
Insertion Finder also got 24 moves with my skeleton.


My previous pb was 29


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## guysensei1 (Dec 24, 2014)

Cale S said:


> 24 move solution for weekly competition (not weekly FMC) with ridiculous cancellations
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, your first commutator added 0 moves.


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## guysensei1 (Dec 26, 2014)

R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 B2 F R2 U2 R2 U' L2 B' L U' L F D' R 

Premoves: L2 U' D
//2x2x2

the best 2x2x3 extension I could find was 6 moves... F' R F R' F' U2
any help? This scramble looks good.


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## Cale S (Dec 26, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 B2 F R2 U2 R2 U' L2 B' L U' L F D' R
> 
> Premoves: L2 U' D
> //2x2x2
> ...



I found this solution:

on normal: U2 R F2 U2 L2 U' R // pseudo 2x2x3
on inverse: R' B D2 B2 // F2L - 1
on normal: D' B D' B' // F2L
on inverse: L D B D' B' L' D2 // OLL

skeleton: U2 R F2 U2 L2 U' R D' B D' B' D2 L B D B' D' L' B2 D2 B' * R
insert at *: [B R B', L']

final solution: U2 R F2 U2 L2 U' R D' B D' B' D2 L B D B' D' L' B2 D2 R B' L' B R' B' L' R (28)


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## TheDubDubJr (Dec 26, 2014)

Cale S said:


> 24 move solution for weekly competition (not weekly FMC) with ridiculous cancellations



Were you aware you could go straight to the 3-corners? I may just have more practice but I would see you could change it like this.



Spoiler



Scramble: D' F2 U F2 L2 D B2 L2 D' L2 U' L D F2 R' B F2 R D R2 D

on normal: R // form a second pair
on inverse: D2 R' B2 D U' // 2x2x2
on normal: L' U L U // 2x2x3
F2 L F2 L2 F // F2L - 1
F L' F' L D' *[Add U to Change which corner is influenced] *L' D L *[Fix U with U']* // up to two twisted corners

It just happens that the added U' at the end cancels with the premoves :tu


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## porkynator (Dec 26, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 B2 F R2 U2 R2 U' L2 B' L U' L F D' R
> 
> Premoves: L2 U' D
> //2x2x2
> ...



With my NISS notation (moves in brackets are done on inverse scramble):

(U D' L2) //2x2x2
(U F) //EO
L' U L //Pairs 
D R' D' U2 //F2L-1
R2 U' R2 U R' //All but 5 corners

IF finishes in 25: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7ffe176126fc2fc1498e9bf0787bafd4.cube

That 2x2x2 + EO on inverse gives many good continuations, such as:

(U D' L2)
(U F')
(D R2 D' U')
L' U L
R' U

or

(U D' L2)
(U F')
L' U L R2
(U' R U D R2 D' R2 U2 R')


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## Yuxuibbs (Jan 2, 2015)

Could someone explain how to NISS solutions? 
like mainly which premoves you're supposed to do to find continuations if you're switching between scrambles a lot?


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## KevinG (Jan 5, 2015)

Let's say I have a 2x2x3 pseudo block (pre-move R') and I want to switch to the inverse scramble what do I have to do?
Pre-move>inv. 2x2x3> inv. Scramble or 
inv. 2x2x3>pre-move>inv.scramble?
And why?


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## guysensei1 (Jan 5, 2015)

KevinG said:


> Let's say I have a 2x2x3 pseudo block (pre-move R') and I want to switch to the inverse scramble what do I have to do?
> Pre-move>inv. 2x2x3> inv. Scramble or
> inv. 2x2x3>pre-move>inv.scramble?
> And why?



inv 2x2x3->inv scramble->premove


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## KevinG (Jan 5, 2015)

guysensei1 said:


> inv 2x2x3->inv scramble->premove


And why?It would be nice to know


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## guysensei1 (Jan 5, 2015)

KevinG said:


> And why?It would be nice to know



because to get the 2x2x3 you did 
premove->scramble->(2x2x3 moves)

so to go to inverse just do it the other way around.


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 10, 2015)

Today I did my first FMC attempt, I did go to FMC USA 2014, but I really don't count that because I didn't know anything about FMC. Here was my solve.



Spoiler: Solve



Scramble-D' L2 D2 L2 U R2 D L2 F2 D L2 B' L2 D' L2 U2 L D2 L D' U

2x2x1// D' L2 (2/2)
2x2x2// B' U' L U (4/6)
Fixed 2x2x3// R2 D' L R2 B' R2 B2 U2 L U2 L' (11/17)
F2L-1// R2 F D B2 D' F' (6/23)
F2L// *B2 R B2 R'* B' U' B2 U B' R B R' (12/35)
OLL// B' U R B R' B' U' (7/42)
AUF// B2 (1/43)

Final Solution: D' L2 B' U' L U R2 D' L R2 B' R2 B2 U2 L U2 L' R2 F D B2 D' F' B2 R B2 R' B' U' B2 U B' R B R' B' U R B R' B' U' B2 (43*)


I know the 2x2x3 was terrible but it was the best I could find(in like 3 minutes). Once I saw the 8 move LL I didn't care about the 2x2x3. I also know that I should have put the AUF at the start of the OLL and cancelled a move.

*Bold*: I wrote down a wrong solution to F2L, and once I realized that, I CFOP solved it and got the 8 move LL. I did the solution I would have done if I didn't do that, and I got 63



Other than the block building is there any other major things I need to improve on? I do know a bit about insertions and how to do them, but what else do I need to know?


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## mDiPalma (Jan 11, 2015)

Memphis3000 said:


> Today I did my first FMC attempt, I did go to FMC USA 2014, but I really don't count that because I didn't know anything about FMC. Here was my solve.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i'm no professional, but you can easily do your 3x2x2 in less moves than 23, especially on this scramble.

here is an EO 3x2x2 that leaves you with an easy F2L pair:
U D R F' D' F'
D' R U' D B' U B'

it is not always good to solve the EO during the 3x2x2, but it's a familiar state for ZZ/Petrus solvers, which makes it easier (at least for me) to see lucky cases


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 11, 2015)

mDiPalma said:


> i'm no professional, but you can easily do your 3x2x2 in less moves than 23, especially on this scramble.
> 
> here is an EO 3x2x2 that leaves you with an easy F2L pair:
> U D R F' D' F'
> ...



Thanks, I see what you mean, but I'm not an expert at Petrus or ZZ, so I probably wouldn't do that. I'll look into that though. Did you mean 2x2x3 in 17 moves?


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## Kit Clement (Jan 11, 2015)

Third scramble today from Another FMC: R2 F' U' F2 L' U R L2 F R2 D2 L F2 R' F2 L U2 D2


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## Brest (Jan 11, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Third scramble today from Another FMC: R2 F' U' F2 L' U R L2 F R2 D2 L F2 R' F2 L U2 D2



U L
R' U F'
R2 U' R2 U R2
U2 R2 F R F' U R
R2 U F B' R2 F' B U R2 U'

linear lol


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 11, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Third scramble today from Another FMC: R2 F' U' F2 L' U R L2 F R2 D2 L F2 R' F2 L U2 D2



Actually, I had written down: R2 F' U' F2 L' U R' L2 F R2 D2 L F2 R' F2 L U2 D2. (prime after the R on the seventh move)

My solution - 26 moves:


Spoiler



2x2x3: L F' R F' R2 F2 premove F2
Rest of F2L: U F' . U2 F2 R' F' R
pseudo OLL leaves 3 corners: R B L' B L B2 R'
insert at .: F R F' L F R' F' L'

14 move F2L! Then a really lucky psuedo OLL to 3 corners. Insertions didn't help much, though.

to those at dinner: I guess I didn't really remember it right - I was confusing this with one of the other solves today, I think. I was right about the F2 premove, though.



I finally left the 31 club today, after being a member for over 4 years. And I did it in style, with a 31, a 30, and a 26. 29 mean. All of the solves felt as lucky as this one (even if the other scrambles didn't look quite as lucky).


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## porkynator (Jan 11, 2015)

Mike Hughey said:


> Actually, I had written down: R2 F' U' F2 L' U R' L2 F R2 D2 L F2 R' F2 L U2 D2. (prime after the R on the seventh move)
> 
> My solution - 26 moves:
> 
> ...



Nice solve, and nice mean!
Oh, and welcome to club 26 

Here is my quick attempt:

L //2x2x2
F' R F' //square
R2 //square
L' U' L U F //square
Switch to inverse
F2 U' F' U L' U L //F2L + EO
F2 D B' R2 B D' F' U2 F' //LL, 1 move cancels with premoves
25 HTM


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## okayama (Jan 11, 2015)

My solution from Kanto FMC 2015 (got 2nd place).

1st scramble: D2 R' F2 U2 R' F2 L2 D2 F2 U2 B L R U' B2 R' B2 F L' U'
1st solution: U2 L' B U' L' D L U L' D' B' L B L' B' D' B D L U2 L2 U' B' R' F L D R2 D2 R2 (30 moves)


Spoiler



(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L2 U2

c/e pair: R2
c/e pair: D2
2x2x1 block: R2 D'
2x2x2 block: L' F' R
More square: B U
More square: L2
F2L minus 1 slot: U2 L'
Orient edges: D' B' D
All but 3 corners: B L B' L' B L * B' L'
Correction: L2 U2

Insert at *: L' D L U' L' D' L U



2nd scramble: D B' R2 D' B2 D' B2 R' D F' U L2 B2 U' D2 B2 U D L2 U'
2nd solution: F' U2 F' U2 R' U' R' U' B' U' R B' R' U B' U' B2 U' B' D' B U' B' D B2 U R D' (28 moves)


Spoiler



Pre-scramble: U2 R D'

2x2x2 block: F' U2 F'
2x2x3 block: U2 R' U' R'
Orient edges: U' B' U' R B' R'
All but 3 corners: U B' U' B2 U2 * B U'
Correction: U2 R D'

Insert at *: U B' D' B U' B' D B



3rd scramble: R' B2 R' B2 D2 R2 B2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U' F R B2 L D2 F D L' F2
3rd solution: L2 D' R2 F' R' F' D F R F' R' D' R D' F D R D' F D' F R2 L2 F2 R2 F' L' F R F' L (31 moves)


Spoiler



(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: R2 D L2

2x2x2 block: F R F2 L2
2x2x3 block: R2 F' D2
F2L minus 1 slot: D' F' D R'
Finish F2L: D' F' D
All but 3 corners: R' D R F R' F' D' F R F
Correction: R2 D L2

Insert at the beginning: L' F R' F' L F R F'



Mean of 3: 30, 28, 31 = 29.67.

The winner Shuto Ueno got 30, 29, 27 = 28.67, which set a new Asian record. Congrats!


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## uesyuu (Jan 11, 2015)

My solution from Kanto FMC 2015 (got 1st place, and AsR!!!!!).

1st scramble: D2 R' F2 U2 R' F2 L2 D2 F2 U2 B L R U' B2 R' B2 F L' U'
1st solution: U2 R' U' L' U R B' U' B' U B' U' B2 U' L2 U' B' R' F B' R2 B L B' R2 B D R2 D2 R2 (30 moves)



Spoiler



(inverse)
premove: U' L U'
221: R2 D2 R2 D'
222: L' F' R
F2L-1: B U L2 U2
L4C: U' B2 U B U' B U B

normal skeleton: U L' * U B' U' B' U B' U' B2 U' L2 U' B' R' F ** L D R2 D2 R2
* = L U R' U' L' U R U'
** = B' R2 B L B' R2 B L'



2nd scramble: D B' R2 D' B2 D' B2 R' D F' U L2 B2 U' D2 B2 U D L2 U'
2nd solution: R' U2 R F L2 U F2 D2 R F D' F' D R2 D F L' F' R' F L F' D2 R F' R' F B2 U' (29 moves)



Spoiler



NISS solve

(normal)
premove: B2 U'
221: R' U2 R
222: F L2 U
223: F2

(inverse)
premove: F2 U' L2 F' R' U2 R
223: U B2
more 221: F' R F R'
F2L-1: D2 * R D'
L3C: R2 D' F D F' R'

* = F L' F' R F L F' R'



3rd scramble: R' B2 R' B2 D2 R2 B2 U2 L2 F2 R2 U' F R B2 L D2 F D L' F2
3rd solution: U' R F2 U B2 U' R F U F' R' F U' F2 U' F U' R' F' R' L F2 L' R' U F2 B2 (27 moves)



Spoiler



NISS solve

(normal)
premove: B2
222: U' R F2 U' B2

(inverse)
premove: B2 U' F2 R' U
222: B2
more 221: F2 U' R L F2 L' R
F2L-1: F R
All but 3c3e: U F' U F * U

* = F U F' R F U' F' R'



Mean of 3: 30, 29, 27 = 28.67 , New AsR!


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## guysensei1 (Jan 11, 2015)

Clever insertion on the third solve!


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## Cale S (Jan 11, 2015)

Here is the 25 single I got at Another FMC 2015 (best single of the comp) on my first ever official attempt:

Scramble: D R2 D B2 D' B2 U F2 D B' R' D L2 B' L U R U L B2

R2 D' F U L U2 L' // lol 2x2x2 
B D2 // 2x2x3
R' B R' B2 D B D' // F2L - 1
B2 R B' R' // F2L
R D B D' B' R' // OLL
B' // PLL skip + AUF

final solution: R2 D' F U L U2 L' B D2 R' B R' B2 D B D' B2 R B' D B D' B' R' B' (25)

no insertions or NISS lol
I found this because I tried doing 2x2x2 on different blocks, and this one was bad but led to a 9 move 2x2x3. I then solved the cube so I could try switching to inverse, and after I solved the first F2L pair, the second one was paired in the top layer. After inserting the second F2L pair, I had a 7 move LL and went back and wrote down that solution.



Spoiler



Also, I had an 8 move F2L - 1 on the stupid 3rd scramble:

Scramble: R2 F' U' F2 L' U R' L2 F R2 D2 L F2 R' F2 L U2 D2

on normal: L // lol 2x2x2
on inverse: F U' F' R2 F // add a 1x2x3
on normal: F' R // F2L - 1

Can anyone find any good continuations?


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## Sebastien (Jan 11, 2015)

Cale S said:


> Can anyone find any good continuations?



lolscramble 

I found this after 10- 15 minutes:

On Inverse with Premove L':
2x2x3+blocks: B' R2 B R2 F U' R U F 
F2L-1+pair: R2 B U B' R2 
LL-Skip: U2 F R' F' R2 U2 R' U2

23 moves.

Btw, you could also finish like this, giving 23 moves as well:
F2L: U *R U' R'*
OLL+Skip: *R U R* B' R' B U' R' U2


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## Chip Clermont (Jan 11, 2015)

Brest said:


> U L
> R' U F'
> R2 U' R2 U R2
> U2 R2 F R F' U R
> ...



That's ridiculous for linear. But this...

1 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed

U L R' U F' R2 U' R2 U R2 U2 R2 F [@1] R F' U R U'
Insert at @1: F' R' F2 B2 L F L' F2 B2 R
Fewest moves: 24. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: U L R' U F' R2 U' R2 U R2 U2 R F2 B2 L F L' F2 B2 R2 F' U R U'

Wow


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## Laura O (Jan 17, 2015)

My 22 move solution from Frankfurt Cube Days:

Scramble: U2 R' B2 U2 B2 D2 L2 U2 R U2 B' D R2 D' F2 D' U2 L' B'

2x2x3: * B D2 L' U D' L B2
L3C: F L F2 L' D' L D2 F' D' L2

* = D' F2 D B D' F2 D B'

D' F2 D B D' F2 D' L' U D' L B2 F L F2 L' D' L D2 F' D' L2


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## EMI (Jan 17, 2015)

Laura O said:


> My 22 move solution from Frankfurt Cube Days:
> Scramble: U2 R' B2 U2 B2 D2 L2 U2 R U2 B' D R2 D' F2 D' U2 L' B'



My second place solution (tied PB):
1x2x3 and blocks: B' L F2 D' L2
pseudo-2x2x3: U2 F
Switch, F2L-1: F2 R' U R' U'
L3C: U' B2 D B D' B U R2

Skeleton: B' L F2 D' L2 @ U2 F R2 U' B' D B' D' B2 U2 R U' R F2 (19)
@ = L' D' L U L' D L U' (8-2/25)

Total: B' L F2 D' L D' L U L' D L U F R2 U' B' D B' D' B2 U2 R U' R F2 (25)

Also Basti had a 26 on the scramble, so the sum of the podium is 73. Is that some kind of podium WR?


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## Laura O (Jan 17, 2015)

EMI said:


> Also Basti had a 26 on the scramble, so the sum of the podium is 73. Is that some kind of podium WR?



It Is. 
http://hem.bredband.net/_zlv_/rubiks/stats/podium/WCA_333fm_podiums.html


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## TheDubDubJr (Jan 18, 2015)

Laura O said:


> My 22 move solution from Frankfurt Cube Days:
> 
> Scramble: U2 R' B2 U2 B2 D2 L2 U2 R U2 B' D R2 D' F2 D' U2 L' B'
> 
> ...



17 to L3C, same as my skeleton

Very Nice


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## Cube Is Life (Jan 18, 2015)

What are the different ways to continue after F2L-1?


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## Kit Clement (Jan 19, 2015)

Cube Is Life said:


> What are the different ways to continue after F2L-1?



Solve the edges to a nice case, that is, one of 5-cycle, 3-cycle and 1 twisted, two 2-cycles, 3-cycle, or 2 twisted.


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## Cube Is Life (Jan 19, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Solve the edges to a nice case, that is, one of 5-cycle, 3-cycle and 1 twisted, two 2-cycles, 3-cycle, or 2 twisted.



What's an efficient way to slove 2 twisted?


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## guysensei1 (Jan 19, 2015)

Cube Is Life said:


> What are the different ways to continue after F2L-1?



You could also quickly insert the last F2L pair and see if there are any good LL cases (OLL/PLL skips or both!)


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## Kit Clement (Jan 19, 2015)

Cube Is Life said:


> What's an efficient way to slove 2 twisted?



Do insertions like you would any other case. 2 twisted is the least restrictive out of the cases that require two insertions, as on the first insertion, you need to involve any solved corner of your choice and those two corners in any way, meaning you will likely cancel 6 moves on the first insertion alone.


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## Rcuber123 (Jan 19, 2015)

My Solution to last weeks (week 56) Weekly FMC

Scramble: L2 D2 R2 B' R' U' F2 B' D2 F U' B2 D L B U' L' F2 D2 L

Solution: L' B D' U' (4/4) 1x2x3
B L' B' L' B R2 (6/10) pseudo 2x2x3
L2 F L' F (4/14) pseudo F2L
FL F' L2 B L' F L B' L F' L' (12/26
R' (1/27) fix pseudoness

Final Solution:L' B D' U' B L' B' L' B R2 L2 F L' F2 L F' L2 B L' F L B' L F' L' R' (26 moves)


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## Prakhar (Jan 19, 2015)

Scarmble from PB Smashathon 2015- L U2 B2 L B2 U2 R' U2 F2 L' R' F R' U' B2 D2 B' L2 R' B2 D'
Was a very hard scramble for me. No 1 move 1x1x2 blocks. 
The best I could find in 1 hour was a 37. Please try the scramble and tell a good solution.


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## ottozing (Jan 19, 2015)

Prakhar said:


> Scarmble from PB Smashathon 2015- L U2 B2 L B2 U2 R' U2 F2 L' R' F R' U' B2 D2 B' L2 R' B2 D'
> Was a very hard scramble for me. No 1 move 1x1x2 blocks.
> The best I could find in 1 hour was a 37. Please try the scramble and tell a good solution.



I found 3 one movers on inverse pretty quickly. You can also do EO like this on inverse (R' F' B U') which sets a pair up. Not going to bother doing a full attempt right now, but it definitely seems like you had little to work with.


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## guysensei1 (Jan 19, 2015)

Prakhar said:


> Scarmble from PB Smashathon 2015- L U2 B2 L B2 U2 R' U2 F2 L' R' F R' U' B2 D2 B' L2 R' B2 D'
> Was a very hard scramble for me. No 1 move 1x1x2 blocks.
> The best I could find in 1 hour was a 37. Please try the scramble and tell a good solution.





Spoiler



inverse, 
R' L2 F2 L' D2//2x2x2
normal R U F2 R2 F//2x2x3
or...
Doing stuff on JARCS gave this 2x2x3+EO with an super easy F2L-1 after 2x2x2: U2 R2 F2 R' F U R F2 U.
Then simply inserting the final F2L pair gives OLL skip U perm and IF says 29 is optimal to solve.


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## Attila (Jan 19, 2015)

Prakhar said:


> Scarmble from PB Smashathon 2015- L U2 B2 L B2 U2 R' U2 F2 L' R' F R' U' B2 D2 B' L2 R' B2 D'
> Was a very hard scramble for me. No 1 move 1x1x2 blocks.
> The best I could find in 1 hour was a 37. Please try the scramble and tell a good solution.



On inverse R2 U' L2, 
or: premoves L2 U R2 on normal, solve 4 ce pairs.


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## Coolster01 (Jan 19, 2015)

New FMC PBs! 

30.200 avg12
31.636 avg50
33.689 avg100


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## Prakhar (Jan 19, 2015)

Thanks everyone. It was stupid of me to not try starting on the inverse scramble. I will surely look to the starts given by everyone. But indeed, the scramble is hard.


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## Berd (Jan 19, 2015)

Could someone explain some basic fmc terminology please


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## EMI (Jan 19, 2015)

Has been done a hundred times before, just search a little bit on your own please.


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## Rcuber123 (Jan 19, 2015)

Berd said:


> Could someone explain some basic fmc terminology please



Chek out Porkynators FMC tutorial


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## Berd (Jan 19, 2015)

EMI said:


> Has been done a hundred times before, just search a little bit on your own please.


Ty guys 

Who's editing my posts!


Rcuber123 said:


> Chek out Porkynators FMC tutorial


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## Sebastien (Jan 20, 2015)

I just got a 21,00 rolling Mean of 3 at home, from the Berkeley online competition and the first two scrambles of the German forum competition.


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## Kit Clement (Jan 20, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> I just got a 21,00 rolling Mean of 3 at home, from the Berkeley online competition and the first two scrambles of the German forum competition.



Looking forward to seeing your solution to the Berkeley competition -- that one was a fun scramble with lots of possibilities.


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## Sebastien (Jan 20, 2015)

What I can tell already: For that 20 move solution I worked with the shortest skeleton I have ever worked with so far.


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 20, 2015)

I just submitted my 44 move solution to weekly FMC. Someday I'll catch up to you guys. 



Spoiler



Okay maybe not


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## Kit Clement (Jan 21, 2015)

Memphis3000 said:


> I just submitted my 44 move solution to weekly FMC. Someday I'll catch up to you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's funny how fast things change. Almost a year ago, when Ryan got a 33 PB single at Holy Toledo, I told him that I could never be his nemesis again because of that. Almost six months later, I had a 31 PB single. Now that nemesis thing won't happen because of many other events


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 21, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> It's funny how fast things change. Almost a year ago, when Ryan got a 33 PB single at Holy Toledo, I told him that I could never be his nemesis again because of that. Almost six months later, I had a 31 PB single. Now that nemesis thing won't happe because of many other events



You do have a point...


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## obelisk477 (Jan 21, 2015)

Anyone else having trouble submitting to weekly FMC? I got a page that says "An unhandled exception was thrown by the application."


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 21, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> Anyone else having trouble submitting to weekly FMC? I got a page that says "An unhandled exception was thrown by the application."



Yeah, only I got that when I was trying to see the leaders


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## deadmanlsh (Jan 22, 2015)

Scramble:
D2 F2 R2 B2 R2 D' F2 R2 F2 L D' F' D U R2 D2 R D2 L' R' U'

Skeleton:
B F D U' * F2 L ^ F' R D' (U F' U') R' (13) //F2L-1, EO control in brackets
D F2 D' F2 (4) //To L5C

Insertions:
*: F2 R' F L2 F' R F L2 F (9 with 1 cancellation)
^: R2 U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U (8 with no cancellations)

Final:
B F D U' F2 R' F L2 F' R F L2 F' L R2 U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U F' R D' U F' U' R' D F2 D' F2 (33)

I suck at insertions. Insertion finder gave 27 moves. First FMC solve of the year, I think.
I have to say I like my skeleton, at least. I managed to solve F2L-1 at one go by adding a few moves here and there, even managing to EO on the way.
Guess I got lucky.


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## EMI (Jan 23, 2015)

New PBs!

Mean of 3: 28, 25, 23 => 25.33



Spoiler



1. Scramble: R' B2 U2 L' R2 F2 R D2 U2 R B U' L D' R' B' F' R B R2

2x2x2: R' B2 R F' U' R
Blocks: U F'
Switch, 1x2x2: U F L
1x2x2: F2 L' U
Finish: L U L2 F

Skeleton: R' B2 R F' U' R U # F2 L2 U' L' U' L F2 L' F' U' @ (17)
@ = F' L2 F B' U2 B (6/23)
# = U' B' U F' U' B U F (8-3/28)
Total: R' B2 R F' U' R B' U F' U' B U F' L2 U' L' U' L F2 L' F' U' F' L2 F B' U2 B (28)

2. Scramble (official solve last weekend): U2 R' B2 U2 B2 D2 L2 U2 R U2 B' D R2 D' F2 D' U2 L' B'

1x2x3 and blocks: B' L F2 D' L2
pseudo-2x2x3: U2 F
Switch, F2L-1: F2 R' U R' U'
L3C: U' B2 D B D' B U R2

Skeleton: B' L F2 D' L2 @ U2 F R2 U' B' D B' D' B2 U2 R U' R F2 (19)
@ = L' D' L U L' D L U' (8-2/25)

Total: B' L F2 D' L D' L U L' D L U F R2 U' B' D B' D' B2 U2 R U' R F2 (25)

3. Scramble: F2 L2 U2 B2 U2 B2 F2 U L2 D L' F R' B' D' F2 U R2 F L2

Pseudo-F2L-1: D F L' @ U L2 D R' U L D' F' D2 (12)
Finish: L2 F L2 U L' U' L (7)
@ = L F' L' B L F L' B' (8-4)

Total: D L' B L F L' B' U L2 D R' U L D' F' D2 L2 F L2 U L' U' L (23)



Average of 50: 28.93 (Sub 29, yay! Also - hopefully - rolling a DNF soon  ) 

28.00, (DNF), 27.00, 24.00, 32.00, 30.00, 29.00, 27.00, (22.00), 31.00, 27.00, 28.00, 27.00, 29.00, 29.00, 33.00, 25.00, 30.00, 27.00, 28.00, (35.00), 32.00, 31.00, 27.00, 25.00, 28.00, 29.00, 24.00, 28.00, 28.00, 27.00, 34.00, 30.00, (DNF), 33.00, 29.00, 32.00, 31.00, 28.00, 28.00, 32.00, 27.00, (21.00), 32.00, 30.00, 30.00, 34.00, 28.00, 25.00, (23.00)

Marked red is my average of 5 PB, blue average of 12 PB (see signature)

Edit: I suck. Next solve was a DNF because of a mistake when I ran out of time. So, propably no rolling.


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## Smiles (Jan 24, 2015)

I just did my first FMC solve, can somebody critique it please? I'll give a walkthrough of my solve.

Scramble: L2 B2 L2 R2 U2 F2 D' R2 B2 L2 U2 L D' F2 R B2 U2 R
Inverse: R' U2 B2 R' F2 D L' U2 L2 B2 R2 D F2 U2 R2 L2 B2 L2

2 pairs already made, but I don't like the continuation with either of them.
*U L U'* // makes 2 pairs
I don't see a nice 2x2x3.

Switch to inverse scramble:
U L' U' + inverse scramble

*D2 R2 L2 U' F2* // 2x2x3
*x2* // all the edges are oriented but for some reason i ignore that...
*U F U2 F U2 F* // F2L-1
*U F U' F'* // EO from this angle because I get 2 CE pairs.


Spoiler



_Possible continuation in Heise:
L' R U2 R' U' R U' R' L + double corner twist 27 moves or so.
(for double corner twists I only know the 14 move case and I don't want to do an insertion for this one)._


Switch to normal scramble:
x2 F U F' U' y' R' U2 R' U2 R' U' y x2 F2 U L2 R2 D2 + normal scramble + U L U'
*x2*


Spoiler



_Possible continuations in Heise:
U R' U' R U' R' U2 R L' U' L + double corner twist (cancel 3 moves) = 22 moves without insertion.
y L' U2 L U L' U L y U' L' U2 L + double corner twist = 25 moves without insertion.
Possible continuation as LS+LL:
U L2 U2 L U L' U L2 + triple corner twist = 21 moves without insertion._


It was frustrating that I couldn't get a 3-cycle out of this. Probably because sune doesn't change CP...

Actual continuation (idk how):
*U L' U' L F U F' U'* = OLL skip. 8 moves + J perm - 1 cancel = 17 moves, the best I can find (and very odd, but I'll take it).
*z x2 R2 F R F' R U2 L' B L U2* // solved

Solution: U L U' x2 U L' U' L F U F' *U' z x2 R2* F R F' R U2 L' B L U2 z [x2 F U F' U' y' R' U2 R' U2 R' U' y x2 F2 U L2 R2 D2]
Cleaner: U L U' D L' D' L B D B' D F *D* F' D R2 U' B U R2 [B D B' D' B' D2 B' D2 B' D' F2 U L2 R2 D2]
[] = premoves
bold = cancellation

35 HTM


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## bubbagrub (Jan 24, 2015)

Smiles said:


> I just did my first FMC solve, can somebody critique it please? I'll give a walkthrough of my solve.



You used NISS for your first FMC solve!? Blimey. That's impressive (to me, anyway). 35 is a very good result for a first solve. One thing: I'd strongly recommend not using rotations in FMC: learn to think "the yellow face is turning clockwise -- that's D" or "blue anti-clockwise ==> B'...". It makes it so much easier to spot when you can cancel moves. Also, it removes the need to hold the cube in a particular orientation.


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## Kit Clement (Jan 24, 2015)

Smiles said:


> I just did my first FMC solve, can somebody critique it please? I'll give a walkthrough of my solve.
> 
> Scramble: L2 B2 L2 R2 U2 F2 D' R2 B2 L2 U2 L D' F2 R B2 U2 R
> Inverse: R' U2 B2 R' F2 D L' U2 L2 B2 R2 D F2 U2 R2 L2 B2 L2
> ...



A start that I would have tried:

D2 F2 U F' R2 F //2x2x3 with wrong pair
D2 L2 //F2L-1 with wrong pair

Wrong pair cases are nice, as when you switch, they become a correct pair in the location of where the wrong pair would have been solved on normal. Unfortunately, this is a bad wrong pair, as you'll see when you switch to inverse. Could have interesting stuff though, the edge orientation is nice.

What i like about the U L U' before the switch is that two pairs appear within a 1x2x3 block, so that means the switch will create pieces for a 1x2x3 block, which you did.

Here's how I would continue (not the best continuations here, I was running into parity everywhere):

N: U L U' //blocks (3/3)
I: D2 R2 L2 U' F2 //2x2x3 (5/8)
D2 R D2 R' D2 //PS F2L-1 (5/13)
N: D B' D B2 D' B' D B D' B D B' //L3C (12/25)

Not in the mood to do insertions myself, so here's IF with a 31 final: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/724a611b55f5ef8828e44e877e884de8.cube

Also, I agree -- rotations in FMC solves are hard to follow, both for you and me. 

EDIT: Realized I never checked inverse, found this in about 20 minutes once I started doing that:

I: B2 L D2 R2 U' //2x2x2
L D' B2 L2 //F2L-2

N: R D2 R' D R D' R' //F2L-1
D' F' D' F D2 F' D' F //L3C

IF for 30: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/d33d63d7b58bd0fbebcc6e470c0c7c4e.cube


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## TheDubDubJr (Jan 25, 2015)

FMC PBs <3

I got a 25.00 Average of 5 (also is 25.00 Mo3)



Spoiler: 27 (Last Weeks David Adam's FMC)



n: D2 L2 U2 L' U2 F2 L U D F2 R2 U' D L2 B' U2 L' U2 L' F
i: F' L U2 L U2 B L2 D' U R2 F2 D' U' L' F2 U2 L U2 L2 D2

i: U2 D F' D' F B R' D' B R' // 2x2x3 (10/10)
D R D' R' B D2 // EO (6/16)
B2 R' B' R B' // 21 L3C (5/21)

B R' B R B2 D2 B' R D R' D' R B' D R (L2 B' R B L2 B' R' B) [B' F'] D F [D' U2] // cancel 2

Solution: B R' B R B2 D2 B' R D R' D' R B' D R L2 B' R B L2 B' R' F' D F D' U2 (27)





Spoiler: 24 (Random Scramble)



n: R' D2 F2 D2 L2 D2 R' B2 U2 L B' R B R' D B2 R' B D
i: D' B' R B2 D' R B' R' B L' U2 B2 R D2 L2 D2 F2 D2 R

n: F D' F R' // 2x2x3 (4/4)
U2 B F' L' F // make 2x2x1 (5/9)
B2 U' B2 L B' // F2L-corner (5/14)
U B D' B D B2 U' // 21 L3C (7/21)

F D' F R' U2 [B F'] L' [F B2] U' B2 L B' U B D' B (B' U2 B D B' U2 B D') D B2 U' // cancel 5

Solution: F D' F R' U2 B F' L' F B2 U' B2 L B' U B D' U2 B D B' U2 B' U' (24)





Spoiler: 24 (on Speedsolving Weekly Comp - 04)



n: R2 B2 R2 D2 U R2 D2 L2 B2 R2 U2 L' U F' U2 L' U' R2
i: R2 U L U2 F U' L U2 R2 B2 L2 D2 R2 U' D2 R2 B2 R2

i: (F L2 F D' L2 F' R') D2 F R' // F2L-1 (10/10) (switched a lot)
L D L' D2 F' D2 F // 16 to L4C (7-1/16)

R F L2 D ([5]R2 F' L2 F ([3]F' L' B2 L F L' B2 L) R2 F' L2 F) F' L2 F2 D2 F D2 L D' [L' R] F' D2

Solution: R F L2 D R2 F' L B2 L F L' B2 L R2 F D2 F D2 L D' L' R F' D2 (24)





Spoiler: 27 (Random Scramble)



n: D2 B2 R2 U L2 B2 R2 U' F2 D' B2 R B R U' L2 F U' B2
i: B2 U F' L2 U R' B' R' B2 D F2 U R2 B2 L2 U' R2 B2 D2

i: (D2 F B' R2) D' R F2 D' F' // F2L-1 (9/9)
R D R’ B R' B' D' // 15 to L5C (7-1/15)

R2 [B F'] D' B R B' R D' R' ([3] D' B2 D F D' B2 D F') F D F2 R' D ([1] D R2 D' L' D R2 D' L)

Solution: R2 B F' D' B R B' R D' R' D' B2 D F D' B2 D2 F2 R' D2 R2 D' L' D R2 D' L (27)





Spoiler: 24 (Random Scramble)



n: B' F2 U2 B D2 R2 U2 L2 U2 B' L R' F' U' F2 U' R2 D2 B2 R
i: R' B2 D2 R2 U F2 U F R L' B U2 L2 U2 R2 D2 B' U2 F2 B

n: D B D2 B' D F // 2x2x2 (6/6)
D L' B2 L D' B' U2 B2 // F2L-2 (8/14)
F R F' // 17 L5C (3/17)

([3] F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2 D') D B D2 B' D F D ([6] F' L' B2 L F L' B2 L) L' B2 L D' B' U2 [B2 F] R F'

Solution: F2 D B2 D' F2 D B' D2 B' D F D F' L' B2 L F D' B' U2 B2 F R F' (24)



Hopefully I can keep getting more of these low 20s 

Also this is PB Ao12 which I can roll some bad official solves
avg of 12: 27.80

Time List:
31.00, (35.00), 33.00, 27.00, 27.00, 30.00, 27.00, 24.00, 24.00, 27.00, (24.00), 28.00


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## Sebastien (Jan 25, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Looking forward to seeing your solution to the Berkeley competition -- that one was a fun scramble with lots of possibilities.



My Mean of 3 PB (UWR?) from this week:



Spoiler: 20 (David Adam's FMC)



Scramble: D2 L2 U2 L' U2 F2 L U D F2 R2 U' D L2 B' U2 L' U2 L' F

EO: F' L2 B
3E6C: U2 R' * L B2

I found this within the first 5 minutes and I saw as well that the edges were in 6 mover position close to the end, so I went for it, trying lots of different insertions. After 40 more minutes I found this:

* = R' F' L2 F R # F' L2 F
# = B' R2 B + F' U2 F
+ = B' R2 B L' B' R2 B L

Solution: F' L2 B U2 R2 F' L2 F R L' B' R2 B L F' U2 L2 F L B2





Spoiler: 22 (1st scramble from German forum)



Scramble: L2 F' D2 L2 B' U2 R2 D2 F R2 F2 R' U' R' U2 B' D' L R2 U' 

2x2x3+EO+blocks: R' U L' D' B2 U2 F U B' *
3E4C: U' F2

* = R L' (F' U2 F U F' U F) L R'

Solution: R' U L' D' B2 U2 F U B' R L' F' U2 F U F' U F L R' U' F2





Spoiler: 21 (2nd scramble from German forum)



Scramble: D F2 R2 D2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D R2 B2 F' R B' L' F' L2 B2 R D L2 

2x2x2: R' * U F' L' + B 
2x2x3: R' D2 F # R2 
3E4C: D2

* = R L' B2 R' L U2
# = F' L2 F R2 F' L2 F R2
+ = L2 B R2 B' L2 B R2 B'

Solution: L' B2 R' L U' F' L B R2 B' L2 B R D2 L2 F R2 F' L2 F D2



Further, the next solve on a random scramble was another 22, giving me an Average of 5 PB of 21,66. 

Current Average of 12 (not sure if PB or not): 26, (30), 27, 25, 27, 27, 26, (20), 22, 21, 22, 26 = 24,9


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## Smiles (Jan 25, 2015)

bubbagrub said:


> You used NISS for your first FMC solve!? Blimey. That's impressive (to me, anyway). 35 is a very good result for a first solve. One thing: I'd strongly recommend not using rotations in FMC: learn to think "the yellow face is turning clockwise -- that's D" or "blue anti-clockwise ==> B'...". It makes it so much easier to spot when you can cancel moves. Also, it removes the need to hold the cube in a particular orientation.



Yeah I tried to learn it before I started. Super confusing at first. But if I just used Heise for an hour to find the most efficient solution, that'd be more like preparing a speed BLD or something, not interesting.

As for getting 35, it was actually pretty lucky because the OLL skip saved me like 4 moves.

Yes I was too lazy to do rotationless, I know I should have though haha. I just typed it into an algorithm translator after that and removed them cause it's just my first FMC solve. I'll do another one without rotations.

On a side note, are rotations legal in your solution?




Kit Clement said:


> A start that I would have tried:
> 
> D2 F2 U F' R2 F //2x2x3 with wrong pair
> D2 L2 //F2L-1 with wrong pair
> ...



Oh I never considered wrong pairs before switch. I'll try it out.
And pseudo blocks hehe I'll try to get those down but I hate looking at so many different colours LOL. Normally if i see an easy one I'll do it, but I don't have a strong eye for it. Thanks for your feedback though!


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## Kit Clement (Jan 25, 2015)

Smiles said:


> Yeah I tried to learn it before I started. Super confusing at first. But if I just used Heise for an hour to find the most efficient solution, that'd be more like preparing a speed BLD or something, not interesting.
> 
> As for getting 35, it was actually pretty lucky because the OLL skip saved me like 4 moves.
> 
> ...


Pseudo is super easy if you know NISS - wherever the block is, it will become the correct block once you switch scrambles, you just have to spend a move on the other scramble to move the correct block in.


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## Smiles (Jan 25, 2015)

This was supposed to be my second FMC solve but I gave up after F2L-1 because I was too tired to find the best solution.
Can somebody help me on this one? I'm just really bad at LS+LL.

Normal: R2 U2 F L2 B' D2 B' U2 R2 F2 D R B F2 R B D2 B D2
Inverse: D2 B' D2 B' R' F2 B' R' D' F2 R2 U2 B D2 B L2 F' U2 R2

I: F' D2 R2 B // 3 pairs
N: R B U2 L' U' F' U' // 2x2x3

Here there is a 3 move F2L-1 which cancels into EO for both the normal and the inverse.



Kit Clement said:


> Pseudo is super easy if you know NISS - wherever the block is, it will become the correct block once you switch scrambles, you just have to spend a move on the other scramble to move the correct block in.



Yeah I tried a pseudo for this one but i made it a normal block by adding an F move to the end of the 2x2x3 before switching to inverse again just to help me visualize better.


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## bubbagrub (Jan 25, 2015)

Smiles said:


> As for getting 35, it was actually pretty lucky because the OLL skip saved me like 4 moves.



That's ok. Luck plays a large part in FMC... 



Smiles said:


> On a side note, are rotations legal in your solution?



Yes -- they're totally fine. One very small risk is that they'll lead to your solution being mis-counted (happened to me once) in a competition. And of course it adds to the complexity of scribing (by you) and validating (by the judge) the solve.


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## Kit Clement (Jan 25, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> My Mean of 3 PB (UWR?) from this week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those skeletons are insanity. I'd never even think to look for that.


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## bubbagrub (Jan 25, 2015)

Got my first ever sub 30 in the weekly FMC competition this week:

Scramble: D2 L2 U2 L' U2 F2 L U D F2 R2 U' D L2 B' U2 L' U2 L' F
My solution: R U2 R' D2 B' R F2 R' B R F2 U2 L2 F' R' F2 L2 F2 L2 F R2 F' L2 F R2 B U2 L (28)

2X2X2: * D2 R L2 F' R' F2 L2 F' (8/8)
L6C: *** B U2 L (3/11)

Insert at *:

1->2->3: R U2 R' D2 R ** U2 (R' D2) (4/15)

Insert at **:

4->5->6: (R') B' R F2 R' B R F2 (6/21)

Insert at ***:

2->3->6: (F') L2 F R2 F' L2 F R2 (7/28)

I've been spending some time getting used to the ways that multiple insertions interact with each other. So in this solve, I had a single 6-cycle. My first insertion did 1->2->3, and I realised I could insert 4->5->6 into that first comm, since the two comms didn't affect any of the same corners. So my question is, is it ever ok to insert a commutator into another where there is some overlap -- e.g., inserting 3->4->5 into 1->2->3. I can't intuit what effect this kind of thing would have, or is it just unpredictable and therefore not usable?


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 25, 2015)

This has already probably been said before, but a good start for me is to build a 1x2x3 the add the two edges that make it a 2x2x3. Even if it has been used a lot before, I haven't seen it be used lately.


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## Smiles (Jan 25, 2015)

Memphis3000 said:


> This has already probably been said before, but a good continuation for me is to build a 1x2x3 the add the two edges that make it a 2x2x3. Even if it has been used a lot before, I haven't seen it be used lately.



if you're going for a 2x2x3, i guess it doesn't matter if u get there via a 1x2x3 or 2x2x2. I just do whichever is easier.


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 26, 2015)

Yeah I was implying that, but I was just saying that another approach was to do that way. I haven't seen this way a lot, maybe it's just a lot of moves, but I've used it a few times in my FMC solutions.

I finally got a sub 43 single!

222-F R2 L F' L2 B R F2
223-L' U2 B U L U2 L
F2L-U L U2 L' U2 B2 U B2 U' B' U' B'
OLL-L U F U' F' L'
PLL-L F' L B2 L' F L B2 L2 U' 
FINAL-F R2 L F' L2 B R F2 L' U2 B U L U2 L U L U2 L' U2 B2 U B2 U' B' U' B' L U F U' F2 L B2 L' F L B2 L2 U' 

What could I have done better/differently? IF gives it 39.


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## Kit Clement (Jan 26, 2015)

Memphis3000 said:


> Yeah I was implying that, but I was just saying that another approach was to do that way. I haven't seen this way a lot, maybe it's just a lot of moves, but I've used it a few times in my FMC solutions.



I've done it many times, but I don't document my FMC life on this thread 

2x2x2 -> 2x2x3 is just typically an easier path than 1x2x3 -> 2x2x3, as 2x2x2 leaves you more options for extending, and the 3 free faces have all unsolved pieces. But hey, sometimes you can get lucky on the 1x2x3 path, try this scramble out: R' D2 F2 D2 L2 D2 R' B2 U2 L B' R B R' D B2 R' B D


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 26, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> I've done it many times, but I don't document my FMC life on this thread
> 
> 2x2x2 -> 2x2x3 is just typically an easier path than 1x2x3 -> 2x2x3, as 2x2x2 leaves you more options for extending, and the 3 free faces have all unsolved pieces. But hey, sometimes you can get lucky on the 1x2x3 path, try this scramble out: R' D2 F2 D2 L2 D2 R' B2 U2 L B' R B R' D B2 R' B D



Yeah, now that I've tested it out, 2x2-2x2x3 seems like a lot fewer moves than 1x2x3-2x2x3. That scramble has an easy 1x2x3, as well as an ok 2x2x2. Being my noobish self, I would probably do the 2x2x2 because that's what I always do. Yeah I know that you shouldn't limit yourself to one "method".


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## Ranzha (Jan 26, 2015)

One 27 and two 29s from last night and today with the dankers:

*D2 B2 R2 U L2 B2 R2 U' F2 D' B2 R B R U' L2 F U' B2‏*


Spoiler



N: R2 B // 2x2x2 [2]
R' D2 R' F' R F R' D R2 @ // 2x2x3 [9/11]
F D2 F' R' D R // 3x-cross + square [6/17]
F' D' F' D // AB3C [4/21]

@ R F' L' F R' F' L F [8-2/27]

Final: R2 B R' D2 R' F' R F R' D R' F' L' F R' F' L F2 D2 F' R' D R F' D' F' D (27)



*F2 R2 F2 R2 U L2 B2 D R B' L' D2 L' F' D L2 R D' F'‏*


Spoiler



B' D2 F B' U' // 2x2x3 [5]
switch
B R' F' R' B' R' F B' D' B // F2L [10/15]
B R B U' B' U R' B' // CLL [8-1/22]
B L2 F2 D R2 F2 L2 U B R' // ELL [9-2/29]‏

Final: B' D2 F B' U' R B' U' L2 F2 R2 D' F2 L2 R U' B U B' R' B2 D B F' R B R F R B' (29)



MultiBLD #28 from this week's forum competition
*L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 U R2 U B2 U B2 L' U' B' L F2 L F D F' R'‏*


Spoiler



Skeleton:
D B2 R F' B' // squares and stuff
R D R' // 2x2x2
L' U2 L2 // 2x-cross
R B2 R2 U R U' // EO3S
R B2 R' B' R B' R'‏ // Antisune to L3C [24]

Between lines 2 and 3, switch the R' and L'. Insert between: [U' L' U, R'].

Final: D B2 R F' B' R D L' U' L' U R' U' L U' L2 R B2 R2 U R U' R B2 R' B' R B' R' (29)


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## Meneghetti (Jan 26, 2015)

All my solves from Pré-Mundial 2015 (mo3: 32/36/32 = 33.33)

1. B2 L F2 R F2 L F2 D2 L2 U' B L D' U B' D2 L' F U'


Spoiler



U2 F’ L D’ F2 // 2x2x2
L B2 * L2 // square
U R’ U R // AB3E5C

insert at *: B’ F R B’ @ R’ B F’ # U B U’ // [y: M', U R' U']
insert at @: B R2 B’ L2 B R2 B’ L2 // [B R2 B', L2]
insert at #: F R F’ L2 F R’ F’ L2 // [F R F', L2]

Final solution: U2 F’ L D’ F2 L B F R’ B’ L2 B R2 B’ L2 R’ B R F’ L2 F R’ F’ L2 U B U’ L2 U R’ U R *(32 OBTM)*

IF gives 30!



2. U2 R U2 R U2 R' B F2 L2 U2 L' F D' L2 F2 U' L2


Spoiler



B’ R2 F’ R’ // 2x2x2
D F2 D’ F2 // siamese blocks
R U R’ U’ B’ U’ B // F2L-1
F2 L F L’ F // F2L + EO
R U R’ U R U2 R’ // Sune
R’ U L’ U2 R U’ R’ U2 R L // J-perm

Final solution: B’ R2 F’ R’ D F2 D’ F2 R U R’ U’ B’ U’ B F2 L F L’ F R U R’ U R U2 R2 U L’ U2 R U’ R’ U2 R L *(36 OBTM)*

This was my backup solution.



3. U' F2 L2 F2 D U' L2 U B2 F' R2 U' B' U2 L F2 R D' U


Spoiler



U R L2 U B’ // 2x2x2
R U R’ L’ U2 // 2x2x3
L D’ L D @ L2 F’ // F2L-1
F U’ F’ U2 * L U’ L // AB4C

insert at *: U2 F’ D’ F U2 F’ D F
insert at @: D’ B’ D F’ D’ B D F

Final solution: U R L2 U B’ R U R’ L’ U2 L D’ L B’ D F’ D’ B D F L2 U’ F2 D’ F U2 F’ D F L U’ L *(32 OBTM)*

IF gives 30.


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## jpbrc (Jan 26, 2015)

My 23 moves solution from Pré-mundial 2015. New SAR  

*Scramble*: U' F2 L2 F2 D U' L2 U B2 F' R2 U' B' U2 L F2 R D' U

D' R F' U' // EO
B // 2x2x1
R2 D2 // another 2x2x1
L' B L' // 2x2x3
R F' R F2 // AB5C

skeleton: D' R F' U' B R2 D2 L' B L' R * F' R F2

*= R' B' R # F' R' B R F
#= R B2 R' F R B2 R' F'

*Solution: *D' R F' U' B R2 D2 L' B L' B' R2 B2 R' F R B2 R' F2 R' B R2 F2 *(23)*


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## TheDubDubJr (Jan 26, 2015)

jpbrc said:


> My 23 moves solution from Pré-mundial 2015. New SAR
> 
> *Scramble*: U' F2 L2 F2 D U' L2 U B2 F' R2 U' B' U2 L F2 R D' U
> 
> ...



Welcome to the 23club


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## Hssandwich (Jan 26, 2015)

How does one do L5C well?


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## Berd (Jan 27, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> How does one do L5C well?


Seconded.


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## guysensei1 (Jan 27, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> How does one do L5C well?



First insertion will solve any 2 corners+affect one other random corner of the remaining 3. Here's where you have lots of choices to look for cancellations. Second one solves the rest.


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## Sebastien (Jan 27, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> Current Average of 12 (not sure if PB or not): 26, (30), 27, 25, 27, 27, 26, (20), 22, 21, 22, 26 = 24,9



Thanks to another nice Berkeley scramble: 

25, 27, 27, 26, (20), 22, 21, 22, 26, 21, (28), 26 = 24,3

Definitely PB ao12 now.


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## Sebastien (Jan 27, 2015)

jpbrc said:


> My 23 moves solution from Pré-mundial 2015. New SAR



Congratz. 

How comes that you DNF'd the second solve?


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## TheDubDubJr (Jan 27, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> How does one do L5C well?





Berd said:


> Seconded.



First you have to make sure you have a good 5corners skeleton. Make sure there are no twisted corners basically.

Then I sticker each piece 1 goes to 2, to 3, to 4, and to 5. (5 back to 1)

Then I go though each move of the skeleton and look at all 5 different 3cycles, 123 234 345 451 512, and see if I can cancel at least 2 moves on any of them (unless I am getting low on # of insertions, then I start writing the 1move cancellations too). If so then I write down the insertion and which 3-cycle it is.

When you get to the end, you have all insertions and which cycles they are. The way that each insertions goes with another is if it continues into the next cycle. (AND MAKE SURE THE ORDER IS CORRECT)

Example: cycle 123 goes with cycle 451 (as long as 123 comes first). 
and cycle 451 goes with cycle 234 (as long as 451 comes first).

Usually you are able to find optimal unless the insertions are Nested inside the first insertion.


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## Berd (Jan 27, 2015)

TheDubDubJr said:


> First you have to make sure you have a good 5corners skeleton. Make sure there are no twisted corners basically.
> 
> Then I sticker each piece 1 goes to 2, to 3, to 4, and to 5. (5 back to 1)
> 
> ...


Whaaaa!?


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## bubbagrub (Jan 27, 2015)

Berd said:


> Whaaaa!?



I really recommend this tutorial for everything to do with FMC, including 5-cycles.

But the short explanation is this:

So, having got your skeleton, you sticker the unsolved cubies, 1, 2, 3, etc.

If you have a three-cycle, you basically want to do something like 1->2->3. Meaning the cubie at 1 needs to go to the place where the cubie labeled 2 is and 2 goes to 3 and 3 goes to 1. 

With a 5-cycle, there are lots of possibilities, but the best case is when it's a single 5-cycle -- 1->2->3->4->5. In that case, if you do any of the 3-cycles contained in that 5-cycle (e.g., 1->2->3 or 3->4->5 or 5->1->2) it will leave another 3-cycle. There's a slightly complicated bit here to do with whether you look for the second insertion in a skeleton including the first insertion or not. If you do the former, then you will find (by seeing which stickered cubies are now unsolved) what cycle you need to solve the rest. If you do the latter, then you can use the fact that the two cycles need to follow each other and start and end with the same number.

E.g., if you find 2->3->4 as your first cycle, then you can either insert 4->5->1 before it, or 5->1->2 after it.

HTH!


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## jpbrc (Jan 28, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> Congratz.
> 
> How comes that you DNF'd the second solve?



Thx!  I arrived 30 minutes late and didn't have time to finish the insertions  I found a 18 moves skeleton that could lead to a 28 moves solution if I had enough time. Really sad about that


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## Sebastien (Jan 28, 2015)

jpbrc said:


> Thx!  I arrived 30 minutes late and didn't have time to finish the insertions  I found a 18 moves skeleton that could lead to a 28 moves solution if I had enough time. Really sad about that



Oh, I see. Well, you were already lucky that you were allowed to still participate when being so late. You should have just focused on getting some solution, e.g. applying commutators at the end of your skeleton when time was runnign out. Any solution of 44 or below would have been sufficient for you to win the event. :/


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 28, 2015)

Can anyone find a good continuation to this F2L-1? The best I found was a 31 move solution. I want to see what the experts would do. IF gives my skeleton a 29.


Spoiler: F2L-1



Scramble:B U2 B' R2 F2 D2 U2 R2 U R B2 L U F U2 B U' B' R2
2x2x2-F U2 L D'
2x2x3-B U2 R U' R'
F2L-1-U2 B


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## Kit Clement (Jan 29, 2015)

Got a PB 23 single doing some Skype FMC tonight 

Scramble: F' D R' F D R2 B' D2 R' F U2 L2 F R2 D2 B' L2 F' U2 L2

I: F2 D F2 D U2 F2 D' F \\PS 2x2x3 (8/8)
N: B D B' (L' \\F2L-1 (3/11)
L) U' L' U B' L' B2 L \\L3C (7/18)

Skel: B D B' U' L' U B' L' B2 (1) L F' D F2 U2 D' F2 D' F2

(1): B R B' L B R' B' L'

Final: B D B' U' L' U B' L' B' R B' L B R' B' F' D F2 U2 D' F2 D' F2 (23)


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 29, 2015)

Nice one Kit! If you don't mind me asking, what exactly is skype FMC?


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## ottozing (Jan 29, 2015)

FMC while on Skype with other people doing FMC 

My solution on the same scramble:

F' D R' F D R2 B' D2 R' F U2 L2 F R2 D2 B' L2 F' U2 L2

Premove D
B2 R' B2 R U2 F' R' B' D R2 (2x2x3)
D2 L D L' (F2L-1)
F2 D R' D' R (F2L)
L' F' L F' L' F2 L F (Scrub LL)

Solution: B2 R' B2 R U2 F' R' B' D R2 D2 L D L' F2 D R' D' R L' F' L F' L' F2 L F D (28)


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## Ranzha (Jan 29, 2015)

My solution on the same scramble as Jay and Kit:

F' D R' F D R2 B' D2 R' F U2 L2 F R2 D2 B' L2 F' U2 L2

B2 R' F2 B2 R' U' B L' B2 // 2x2x3 [9]
switch
F' D R D' F2 // F2L [5/14]
U R2 U' R2 U' B U B' // CLL, AB3E [8-1/21]

Skeleton:
B2 R' F2 B2 R' U' B L' B' U' B' U R2 U R2 @U' F2 D R' D' F [21]

@ D2 L2 U2 B' U2 L2 D2 F' [8/29]


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## pinser (Jan 29, 2015)

F' D R' F D R2 B' D2 R' F U2 L2 F R2 D2 B' L2 F' U2 L2

D L F' B2 D2 U' F' R' F D' B D F2 U L' B L //F2L-1 (17/17)
U' B' U B U' B' U' B U' //L4C (9/25)
How should I sticker the pieces and go about doing the insertions?


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## Kit Clement (Jan 29, 2015)

pinser said:


> F' D R' F D R2 B' D2 R' F U2 L2 F R2 D2 B' L2 F' U2 L2
> 
> D L F' B2 D2 U' F' R' F D' B D F2 U L' B L //F2L-1 (17/17)
> U' B' U B U' B' U' B U' //L4C (9/25)
> How should I sticker the pieces and go about doing the insertions?



This is a case of two 2-cycles, so sticker them A->B->C and 1->2->3 on each of the cycles to get the way to solve both pieces (two of the four cubies will have two stickers). You would try to solve just one corner on the first insertion, involving any two other pieces with a sticker. This gives you a lot of freedom on the first insertion, so try to cancel at least 3-4 moves, if not more. After that, it's just L3C.


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## Memphis3000 (Jan 29, 2015)

ottozing said:


> FMC while on Skype with other people doing FMC



Oh, lol


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## Cale S (Jan 31, 2015)

25 single from the weekly comp, ties my second best (which was official)


Spoiler



Found in just over 15 minutes:

scramble: L2 D2 B2 U2 L' F2 L' R' B2 U2 B L2 F2 D B' F' L U' F' 

F2 U' // square
L B2 // 2x2x2
R F R2 // 2x2x3
switch to inverse: U2 L' U L U2 F' // F2L - 1
switch to normal: R U R' U' R U R' // F2L
R B2 L' B' L B' R' U // LL

final solution: F2 U' L B2 R F R' U R' U' R U B2 L' B' L B' R' U F U2 L' U' L U2 (25)


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## pinser (Feb 2, 2015)

For 2 twisted corners, is it better to do two 3cycles, or just insert a corner twist?


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## Kit Clement (Feb 2, 2015)

pinser said:


> For 2 twisted corners, is it better to do two 3cycles, or just insert a corner twist?



Almost always two 3-cycles. The first 3-cycle can typically cancel 6 moves, just because there is so much freedom in how you can choose that insertion.


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## jpbrc (Feb 5, 2015)

Hardest scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
Solution: B' U2 L F D R' U' B' L' F B2 D2 B' D' B D' B2 D F D' B F D2 F2 L2 D2 F' D' *(28)* Finally sub30 



Spoiler



B' U2 L F D R' U' // 2x2x2
B' L' B // EO
(switch)
D F D2 L2 // 2x2x3
F2 D2 F' D F' // pseudo F2L
(switch)
F B D2 B' D' B D' B' D // AB3C


Skeleton: B' U2 L F D R' U' B' L' F B2 D2 B' D' B D' B' D F D' * F D2 F2 L2 D2 F' D'

*= D F' D' B' D F D' B 


Other interesting solutions that i found using IF  : 
*32: *


Spoiler



B' U2 L F D R' U' // 2x2x2
B' L' B // EO
(switch)
D F D2 L2 // 2x2x3
F' D' F' D2 F2 D F D2 // AB5C

Skeleton: B' U2 L F D R' U' B' [@1] L' B D2 F' D' F2 D2 F D F L2 D2 F' D'
Insert at @1: D R D' L' D R' D' L
After the 1st insertion: B' U2 L F D R' U' B' D R D' L' D R' D' B D2 F' D' F2 D2 F D F L2 D2 F' D' [@2]
Insert at @2: D F U F' D' F U' F'
Fewest moves: 32. 6 moves cancelled
The final solution: B' U2 L F D R' U' B' D R D' L' D R' D' B D2 F' D' F2 D2 F D F L2 D2 U F' D' F U' F' *(32)*


*30*


Spoiler



B' U2 L F D R' U' // 2x2x2
(switch)
D2 F' L2 D // EO 
F' L B' L2 B L2 // AB6C

Skeleton: B' U2 L F D [@1] R' U' L2 B' L2 B L' F D' L2 F D2
Insert at @1: D F' U2 F D' F' U2 F
After the 1st insertion: B' U2 L F D2 F' U2 [@2] F D' F' U2 F R' U' L2 B' L2 B L' F D' L2 F D2
Insert at @2: D' B2 D F D' B2 D F'
After the 2nd insertion: B' U2 L F D2 F' U2 D' B2 D F D' B2 F' U2 F R' U' L2 B' L2 B [@3] L' F D' L2 F D2
Insert at @3: B' L2 B R' B' L2 B R
Fewest moves: 30. 11 moves cancelled
The final solution: B' U2 L F D2 F' U2 D' B2 D F D' B2 F' U2 F R' U' L2 R' B' L2 B R L' F D' L2 F D2


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## TheDubDubJr (Feb 6, 2015)

Has anyone seen anything on Anton Krokhmal's 22 solution from Winter West Ukraine 2015 just last weekend?

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2012KROK01


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## Jimmy Liu (Feb 6, 2015)

I found the result paper at Russian cubing forum.
It seems that he used NISS method so we can't know actually what he was doing.

http://vk.com/ruspeedcubing



Edit: 

Scramble: U' L U2 B D' R' F' D2 L U' B2 R2 F' U2 B' R2 U2 D2 L2 B

apply on normal: 

D2 L D2 - pseudo 2x2x2 block

switch to inverse:

D' - 2x2x2 block
L' U B2 U- pseudo 2x2x3 block
D' B D B2 L' U - F2L-1
B U' B' U - F2L
U' B' L' B L U - OLL, PLL skip!
B - AUF

Solution: D2 L D2 B' U' L' B' L B2 U B' U' L B2 D' B' D U' B2 U' L D (22 moves)


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## Krohag92 (Feb 6, 2015)

My 22 solution from Winter West Ukraine 2015

Scr: U’ L U2 B D’ R’ F’ D2 L U’ B2 R2 F’ U2 B’ R2 U2 D2 L2 B

Scr’: B’ L2 D2 U2 R2 B U2 F R2 B2 U L’ D2 F R D B’ U2 L’ U

1)On inv: D’

2)On scr: D2 L D2 - 2х2х2 (4)

3) On inv: L’ U B2 U 
D’ B D B2 L’ - 2х2х3 (13)
U – F2L-1 (14)
B U’ B2 L’ B L U B 

Final Solution: D2 L D2 B’ U’ L’ B’ L B2 U B’ U’ L B2 D’ B’ D U’ B2 U’ L D / 22 moves

I found this solution for 15 minutes


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## Prakhar (Feb 6, 2015)

18 move FMC wtf . But will not count as PB because it was kind of lol scramble.

Scramble- U' D R U D B' D B2 L2 R' B2 U B2 D2 R' L2 F2 U' D2 F' D F2 B L' U' (given by Shivam Bansal​)



Spoiler



Solution- L' F B U' B U B U B U B U' B U B2 R' B2 U

On normal
L' F //2x2x2 
B2 U B U2 // psuedo 2x2x3

Switch to inverse
Pre scramble: U2 B' U' B2 F' L
U' // 2x2x3
B2 R // F2L-1
B2 U' B' U B' // L3E

Skeleton- L' F B2 U B + U2 B U' B U B2 R' B2 U
Insert at +: B (B2 U' B' U' B U B U B U' B) B'
6 moves cancel.


Try the scramble. Should I count it as UCR?? 

lol just kidding, I will not even count as PB because it was kind of lol scramble.


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## Sebastien (Feb 6, 2015)

Krohag92 said:


> My 22 solution from Winter West Ukraine 2015
> 
> Scr: U’ L U2 B D’ R’ F’ D2 L U’ B2 R2 F’ U2 B’ R2 U2 D2 L2 B
> 
> ...



congratz!

You mixed up scr and inv in your description though.


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## Krohag92 (Feb 6, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> congratz!
> 
> You mixed up scr and inv in your description though.



Thank you, I corrected


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## porkynator (Feb 6, 2015)

A 22 move solution for a scramble from the German competition (#3 here).

Scramble: D2 F2 D' R2 D' U' R2 B2 D R' F U2 F L B D2 L' U B2 
Solution: U2 L' B L' B' L' U2 L' F L' U' R' L B L' B' L' D L D' R F2 (22 HTM)

On inverse:
F2 * U L F' //2x2x2 (4/4)
L U2 L B L //Pseudo F2L-1 (5/9)
B' L U2 //All but 3 edges and 3 corners (3/12)

* = R' D L' D' L B L B' L' R //Setup + pair 3-cycle (10/22)


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## coldsun0630 (Feb 8, 2015)

Is there any good countinuation?
I see there some pairs, but can't finish with it...

Scramble: R2 F2 U2 L' F2 R' U2 F2 U2 L B2 D R' B2 D L D' F L2 D R B2 L2 D' F' U



Spoiler



(tried without NISS)

L2 D2 U B' F D' R2 F U2 R2 U' R U (F' R' D2 R2) // F2L-1


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## lerenard (Feb 9, 2015)

I wanted to practice FMC, but found a 33-move solution in 10 minutes and gave up because I lost motivation to find something better:

scramble: D2 B D2 B2 U2 L2 U2 F R2 B' U2 D F D2 R F R U2 B' L' R2

B2 D F D' B // 2x2 (5)
L' U' L' U2 // 2x3 (4/9)
D' L' D2 F2 D' // EO + pair (5/14)
L2 F' L2 F2 L2 F L' F' L F // F2L (10/24)
x z y' R U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 // COLL + EPLL skip (9/33)

alg.cubing.net

Is there a point where you give up because the solution you've found is already good enough for you? I feel like my solution was really lucky.


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## Kit Clement (Feb 9, 2015)

lerenard said:


> I wanted to practice FMC, but found a 33-move solution in 10 minutes and gave up because I lost motivation to find something better:
> 
> scramble: D2 B D2 B2 U2 L2 U2 F R2 B' U2 D F D2 R F R U2 B' L' R2
> 
> ...



Jay once did this with a 27 in 20-25 minutes or so (?), gave up for 5 minutes, then found a 24 before the hour expired.


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## lerenard (Feb 9, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Jay once did this with a 27 in 20-25 minutes or so (?), gave up for 5 minutes, then found a 24 before the hour expired.



Did another solve and took the whole hour to find a 35-move solutions. I would have had an extra 10-15 minutes but doing the inverse scramble is weird and tricky.

How many solutions/methods do you try on a usual scramble? Is it normal for many (skilled) competitors to get the same solution for a given scramble?


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## porkynator (Feb 11, 2015)

A 27 HTM corners first solve (scramble taken from here, the first one)

Scramble: L2 F' D2 L2 B' U2 R2 D2 F R2 F2 R' U' R' U2 B' D' L R2 U'
Solution: U B2 F2 R F R D2 B' F R L' U' F' R B2 F2 L' F L' R B U' F R' L D' B' (27)

U B2 F2 R F R //All corners and 2 edges (6/6)
U D + R' * B F' U R' //4 more edges (7/13)
D B' F L' U' //All but 4 edges and 6 centres (5/18)

+ = E' M' E M
* = D' F E2 F' D

It's the second time the best solution I find in one hour is a CF one


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## Kit Clement (Feb 11, 2015)

lerenard said:


> Did another solve and took the whole hour to find a 35-move solutions. I would have had an extra 10-15 minutes but doing the inverse scramble is weird and tricky.
> 
> How many solutions/methods do you try on a usual scramble? Is it normal for many (skilled) competitors to get the same solution for a given scramble?



I'm not that good, but I typically stick to basic Petrus-style block building until I get an F2L-1, and then solving the edges. I do try to find as many good starts (2x2x2s or 2x2x3s) as possible to make sure I can get a F2L-1 as short as possible that gives a good continuation.


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## porkynator (Feb 12, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> My Mean of 3 PB (UWR?) from this week:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 21 (2nd scramble from German forum)
> ...



I've found exactly the same solution for that scramble (two of the insertions were slightly different, but they result in the same solution after the cancellations).
Your PBs are totally insane though. Are you going to make us all look stupid at FMC Euro?

BTW this is the fourth time I "submit" the same solution as someone else in an FMC attempt. Do I get an FMCopycat award or something?


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## mDiPalma (Feb 12, 2015)

porkynator said:


> A 27 HTM corners first solve (scramble taken from here, the first one)
> 
> Scramble: L2 F' D2 L2 B' U2 R2 D2 F R2 F2 R' U' R' U2 B' D' L R2 U'
> Solution: U B2 F2 R F R D2 B' F R L' U' F' R B2 F2 L' F L' R B U' F R' L D' B' (27)
> ...



did u try:
R' U L' D' B2 U' B' ?



Spoiler



R' U L' D' B2 U' * B'
U' F' U2 R F U2 R' U2 R F' U2 R' 
*=[U2, R' D' R]
26 htm, but you could probably find a better continuation than me


----------



## Sebastien (Feb 12, 2015)

porkynator said:


> Your PBs are totally insane though. Are you going to make us all look stupid at FMC Euro?



Haha. I hope so, but I don't think so.  I still average around 27 and especially during competitions I have to deal with concentration issues, most of all getting lost in some nice looking stuff instead of simply finishing another promising skeleton. Last competition this sort of confusion made me get 27, 27 instead of 26, 24.



porkynator said:


> BTW this is the fourth time I "submit" the same solution as someone else in an FMC attempt. Do I get an FMCopycat award or something?



Well, good FMCers see similar stuff, so that happens. That you found that same 21 is really extraordinary though.


----------



## porkynator (Feb 12, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> Haha. I hope so, but I don't think so.  I still average around 27 and especially during competitions I have to deal with concentration issues, most of all getting lost in some nice looking stuff instead of simply finishing another promising skeleton. Last competition this sort of confusion made me get 27, 27 instead of 26, 24.



I thought your average was like low 25, or sub-26 at least, judging from your recent results on the German forum and berkley competitions... but 27 is still really good



mDiPalma said:


> did u try:
> R' U L' D' B2 U' B' ?
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, but I couldn't find a good continuation at first. Working on CF solves is really time consuming, but I thought this once it was worth a try, so I've started working on it early during the hour.
I've watched your solution on alg.cubing.net and I have to admit I don't understand how you've found it... I'll probably get it once I reproduce it on a physical cube, but I think a short explanation / steps breakdown can be useful for everyone 
EDIT: ok now I get it.

In case you've missed it, here's Sébastien's solution for that scramble:


Sebastien said:


> Spoiler: 22 (1st scramble from German forum)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sebastien (Feb 12, 2015)

porkynator said:


> I thought your average was like low 25, or sub-26 at least, judging from your recent results on the German forum and berkley competitions... but 27 is still really good



Well, how do you define "average"? If I take all my solves from 2015, the mean would probably be around 26.00. Maybe I should start to keep better track of my FMC attempts. 

Edit: Ok, my estimation was indeed really good.  You made me collect all results from Competitions, German forum and Berkeley from 2015 (27 attempts). Mean: 26.03


----------



## Attila (Feb 12, 2015)

porkynator said:


> A 27 HTM corners first solve (scramble taken from here, the first one)
> 
> Scramble: L2 F' D2 L2 B' U2 R2 D2 F R2 F2 R' U' R' U2 B' D' L R2 U'
> Solution: U B2 F2 R F R D2 B' F R L' U' F' R B2 F2 L' F L' R B U' F R' L D' B' (27)
> ...



Congratz, nice solution!
I found 28:


Spoiler



U B2 F2 L D B2 D B F' R' U D L2 D B2 L U D' B' R2 D' B U D' R' U2 R2 D'

U B2 F2 L D similar to your start,
B2 D B F' R' 5 edges(UL-UR swapped),
switch to inverse:
D R2 U2 R D U' B' swap, more 1 edge,
D R2 B D U' L' B2 D' L2 D' U' LSE.


----------



## Memphis3000 (Feb 12, 2015)

My personal best 31 move solution.



Spoiler: Solution



Scramble-B U2 B' R2 F2 D2 U2 R2 U R B2 L U F U2 B U' B' R2

F U2 L D'//2x2x2
B U2 R U' R'//2x2x3
U2 *B*//F2l-1
*B* U' B' U' R' U2 R U R' U2 R//F2L+OLL
F2 U' R' L F2 L' R U' F2 U'//L3E

Final solution-F U2 L D' B U2 R U' R' U2 B2 U' B' U' R' U2 R U R' U2 R F2 U' R' L F2 L' R U' F2 U'


----------



## lerenard (Feb 13, 2015)

How do you get a low movecount after the 2x2x3 block? I got that and EO done in 10 moves but still had a 37-move solution because I couldn't find a good continuation, even with NISS. The solution I ended up with was 26 move F2L with COLL and EPLL skip. I found shorter F2L's, but I couldn't get a better LL. I tried edges only, but I had 5 corners left.
If it helps:
Scramble: F R2 B' L2 R2 D2 B R2 U2 F2 L D' U R' D' L2 R' D'
R' B2 R' U2 L' D L2 D B2 D // 2x3 (10)
Switch to inverse and do:
L2 B L2 B2 L U B U' L' D L' D' L2 U B' U' //F2L (16)
COLL (11)

Edit: I found a way to do that scramble in 27 moves!
U R' F2 R' // 2x2
Switch to inverse:
U2 B' U2 L2 B2// F2L (almost)
Back to normal:
U2 F U F' U' L' U L U' L' B' // F2L & EO
COLL & skip

Final: U R' F2 R' U2 F U F' U' L' U L U' L' F' U B' U' F U2 B U2 B L2 U2 B U2 (27)

So do you basically just keep trying stuff until you get lucky?


----------



## Ollie (Feb 13, 2015)

F2 L2 U2 R2 U2 L F2 L F2 D2 R2 B L F2 R B' D2 R' U F' U

R' F U R' D' U' R' D' // make some good edges and 1x2x3 block on left
r' U r U' R' M' U' r' // make 2x2x1 block and pair
F' U F R // (lucky) OLLCP to cancel 2 moves
U2 M U2 M' U M U2 M' // 2*3-cycles to cancel AUF and finish

Final solution: R' F U R' D' U' R' D' r' U r U' R' M' U' r' F' U F R U2 M U2 M' U M U2 M' (33) with Roux

If I was good enough to find the optimal solution for those last 5 edges then it would've been 29 = not even sub-5BLD FMC. But meh, one of my favorite solutions

Edit: In fact, I KNEW how to do the optimal 5-cycle - (R2 F2 R2 U)* - it just didn't occur to me during the hour. ****.

Hour limit DNF solution: R' F U R' D' U' R' D' r' U r U' R' M' U' r' F' U F R U2 L2 B2 L2 U' L2 B2 L2 (29)

Edit 2: Confirmed by Cube Explorer. :'(


----------



## Memphis3000 (Feb 13, 2015)

pretty good solution, I've never seen one (seriously) been done with roux before.


----------



## Bubtore (Feb 14, 2015)

Take a look at that one :
http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=177255#pid177255


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## Memphis3000 (Feb 14, 2015)

interesting...


----------



## penguinz7 (Feb 14, 2015)

Ok, I just got an 11 moves F2L-1 in 20 minutes, spent the remainder trying to get a continuation, the best I could find was like 30 moves.. I was mostly trying to get a corner commutator, but I couldn't find any..
Can you guys find any good continuations? 

D' B2 D F2 L2 U L2 U' L2 U F R F2 R' F2 L2 D' R U B' U'
Premove (R')
L' F B2 D2 R'
L' U L U' B U' 
z2 x'


----------



## kinch2002 (Feb 14, 2015)

penguinz7 said:


> Ok, I just got an 11 moves F2L-1 in 20 minutes, spent the remainder trying to get a continuation, the best I could find was like 30 moves.. I was mostly trying to get a corner commutator, but I couldn't find any..
> Can you guys find any good continuations?
> 
> D' B2 D F2 L2 U L2 U' L2 U F R F2 R' F2 L2 D' R U B' U'
> ...


Couldn't find anything particularly good...only things that will lead to solutions around 30.
Also, you should say this is 12 move F2L-1, because of the premove


----------



## Memphis3000 (Feb 15, 2015)

Yeah, it's pretty hard with a not so easy EO.


----------



## Attila (Feb 15, 2015)

Weekly FMC scramble: (week 60)
R2 D’ U2 R2 B R2 L’ F2 R B2 R’ L2 F U D L B R2 D L2
My solution was not accepted (as unhandled exception)


Spoiler



Solution:
U’ F’ B’ R’ F B’ R’ D’ L2 U B2 U2 L’ B F’ D R D2 U’ L R’ F B2 R
Explanation:
U’ F’ B’ R’ F B’ R’ orient corners and 5 edges,
D’ L2 U B2 all corners,
U2 L’ B F’ D
R D2 U’ L R’ F B2 R L7E.


I wrote something wrong?


----------



## Memphis3000 (Feb 15, 2015)

I couldn't find anything you wrote wrong, but the site has been having some problems lately, so maybe it's a problem with the site.


----------



## Brest (Feb 15, 2015)

Attila said:


> Weekly FMC scramble: (week 60)
> R2 D’ U2 R2 B R2 L’ F2 R B2 R’ L2 F U D L B R2 D L2
> My solution was not accepted (as unhandled exception)
> 
> ...



It could be using ’ instead of '


----------



## Attila (Feb 15, 2015)

Brest said:


> It could be using ’ instead of '


Thanks 
I changed the letters, working now


----------



## Ollie (Feb 15, 2015)

I did a good'un

B R2 F' R2 U2 B' F2 D2 B2 U2 L2 D F2 U2 L D2 L' F L D' R2



Spoiler: Solution



R2 L2 U B' L' B' U2 F' R F' // 2x2x3 block + EO
R U' R' U2 R' U' R' * // leave four corners

*insert R U R' D' R U' R' * D to cancel three moves and leave a 3-cycle
*insert D L2 D' R' D L2 D' R to cancel one move and solve

Final solution: R2 L2 U B' L' B' U2 F' R F' R U' R' U2 R2 D' R U' R' D2 L2 D' R' D L2 D' R (27)


----------



## Memphis3000 (Feb 15, 2015)

Nice one ollie, it's optimal with your skeleton too!


----------



## Ollie (Feb 16, 2015)

Poo, found an awesome skeleton with NISS, but ran out of time/patience.

U2 D' R B2 D2 B2 F' D U R' U F' D U' L' D' R2 F2 R' B' D F2 R' F L



Spoiler



U' D' F' U D' B R' B L2 // 2x2x3 block
F D R2 D' F R F'* // EO + pseudo block
apply on inverse scramble: [premoves F R' F' D R2 D' F' L2 B' R B' D U' F D U] R2 F R' // solves everything but four corners
apply on normal scramble: [premoves R F' R2] *insert F D F' U F D' F' to cancel one move // leaves three corners
L' U L D' L' U' L D U' // laziness

Final solution: U' D' F' U D' B R' B L2 F D R2 D' F R D F' U F D' F' L' U L D' L' U' L D U' R F' R2 (33)

Must try harder



Edit: oh wow, this gives me a Mo3 of 30.67. Time to take FMC seriously, methinks


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## penguinz7 (Feb 16, 2015)

Not great, but it's my first time using an insertion, so that's cool. Critique me.



Spoiler: FMC



F2 L2 U' L2 D' F2 D B2 D R2 F2 L D' U L2 F2 L B U2 L2 F2 U'

U * R U' B2 U L // 2x2 Block 6/6 
B D2 R B2 D' B' // 2x2x3 Block 6/12
x2 R U R' U' R U R U' R' // F2L 9/21
U' F' L' U' L U F U' // LL 8 /28

Insert at * B2 L' F L B2 L' F' L // Corner Cycle 8/36

Final Solution: U B2 L' F L B2 L' F' L R U' B2 U L B D2 R B2 D' B' x2 R U R' U' R U R U' R' U' F' L' U' L U F U' - 36


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## Brest (Feb 16, 2015)

penguinz7 said:


> Critique me.
> 
> U' F' L' U' L U F U' // LL 8 /28



You used an extra move here. Don't AUF twice.


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## penguinz7 (Feb 16, 2015)

Brest said:


> You used an extra move here. Don't AUF twice.



I don't even know how I sub 40 FMC, I make such dumb mistakes..
thanks though.


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## Julian (Feb 17, 2015)

27, tied PB

B2 L2 R2 F L2 R2 U2 L2 R2 B D2 U' B L D2 L2 R D F D' U'

(D F') // pseudo-2x2x2 on inv
D2 // 2x2x2 on normal
U' * L2 U L' B' U' // xxcross
B2 L' B' L // F2L-1
D' B D B' L B2 L' B2 // L3C

Insert U B' U' F' U B U' F at *, cancelling 2 moves.


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## penguinz7 (Feb 18, 2015)

Once again I have a potentially awesome start, but can't find any continuations.. I've tried some NISS and single move insertions, but can't find anything.. You guys got anything?

B2 U2 F2 U R2 U2 L2 F2 U2 B2 L2 B' R D B2 L D B F L2 D'
B2 F' D R' U B // 2x2x2
D R F' x2 // 2x2x3


----------



## Kit Clement (Feb 18, 2015)

penguinz7 said:


> Once again I have a potentially awesome start, but can't find any continuations.. I've tried some NISS and single move insertions, but can't find anything.. You guys got anything?
> 
> B2 U2 F2 U R2 U2 L2 F2 U2 B2 L2 B' R D B2 L D B F L2 D'
> B2 F' D R' U B // 2x2x2
> D R F' x2 // 2x2x3



Probably better finishes out there, but I don't have a cube on me and this was the best I could do with alg.cubing.net 

B2 F' D R' U B // 2x2x2
D R F' //2x2x3
B R' B' D2 R D R2 //F2L-1
F L' F L F2 R' D //L5C

23 for L5C definitely isn't spectacular, but I'd use it as a backup skeleton.


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## Ollie (Feb 18, 2015)

penguinz7 said:


> Once again I have a potentially awesome start, but can't find any continuations.. I've tried some NISS and single move insertions, but can't find anything.. You guys got anything?
> 
> B2 U2 F2 U R2 U2 L2 F2 U2 B2 L2 B' R D B2 L D B F L2 D'
> B2 F' D R' U B // 2x2x2
> D R F' x2 // 2x2x3



There's an opportunity to insert a move before you finish your 2x2x3.



Spoiler: Hint



Choosing R2 solves some EO and leaves a possible 16 move F2L-1, or a 17 move F2L-1 with the final pair made. Maybe NISS will give you something good from that, it's my bedtime now


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## penguinz7 (Feb 18, 2015)

Ollie said:


> There's an opportunity to insert a move before you finish your 2x2x3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did actually try that, but couldn't find anything good... Thanks though!


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## Ollie (Feb 18, 2015)

penguinz7 said:


> I did actually try that, but couldn't find anything good... Thanks though!



Stick with Kit's continuation


----------



## penguinz7 (Feb 18, 2015)

Ollie said:


> Stick with Kit's continuation



I literally didn't even see that until now. Thanks Kit!


----------



## ottozing (Feb 19, 2015)

FMC tied PB of 23 moves. My older 23 was just a NISS solve with FRURUF PLL skip. This however is a lot cooler.

F L B2 R L D B U L B' U B2 D2 B2 L2 D L2 B2 D' L2 D

Inv
F L2 (Square+pair)
Switch
R D' F (1x2x3)
D' B U B U2 (2 more squares and a pair)
Switch
R2 U' R D (4C3E)

Skeleton: R D' F D' B U B U2 ^ D' R' U R2 L2 F' (14)

^ D B2 D' B' D B' D' (Reduce to 3 edges)

New skeleton: R D' F D' B U B U2 D B2 D' B' @ D B' D2 R' U R2 L2 F' (20)

@ B D B' U' D L D' L' U D'

Solution: R D' F D' B U B U2 D B U' D L D' L' U B' D2 R' U R2 L2 F' (23)

I'm interested in what Sebastien would do for a skeleton like this  It's been a while since I've experimented with inserting algs that affect corners and edges, and I'm really happy that it payed off so well this time


----------



## Julian (Feb 19, 2015)

Last 5 solves have been 32, 27, 32, 32, 29 = 31.00 ao5


----------



## Hssandwich (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm not good at FMC at all, but I gave it a go. I don't really know what to do after my EO:

D F2 R2 D L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D' L D' F D' L2 F L' D' B' F2

B'//2x2
U R' F' R'// pseudo blocky things
U2 F // EO


----------



## Sebastien (Feb 19, 2015)

ottozing said:


> FMC tied PB of 23 moves. My older 23 was just a NISS solve with FRURUF PLL skip. This however is a lot cooler.
> 
> F L B2 R L D B U L B' U B2 D2 B2 L2 D L2 B2 D' L2 D
> 
> ...



Cool solution! I might look into this later, but I don't see myself coming up with something better. 



Hssandwich said:


> I'm not good at FMC at all, but I gave it a go. I don't really know what to do after my EO:
> 
> D F2 R2 D L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D' L D' F D' L2 F L' D' B' F2
> 
> ...



What kind of scramble is that? 

I found this within like 2 minutes:

2x2x2: B' 
2x2x3+1x2x2: U R' F' R' 
EO: U2 F' 
3C3E: R' F2 U' R U R'
Finish: F2 (B R' U' R U R B' R') F2

23 moves.

Edit:

Premove: R2
F2L+OLL: B' U R' F' R' U R U R2 F' R
F-Perm: R' F2 R' F' U' R' U2 F' U' F U' R U F' R 

F-Perm cancels 4 moves --> also 23 moves.

lol, hard to believe this is a real scramble


----------



## guysensei1 (Feb 19, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> I'm not good at FMC at all, but I gave it a go. I don't really know what to do after my EO:
> 
> D F2 R2 D L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D' L D' F D' L2 F L' D' B' F2
> 
> ...



You could do... 
R' D' F2 D R' //more blocks
which reduces this to 6 unsolved pieces. A premove can turn this into a LL case but I don't know it.


----------



## Brest (Feb 19, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> I'm not good at FMC at all, but I gave it a go. I don't really know what to do after my EO:
> 
> D F2 R2 D L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D' L D' F D' L2 F L' D' B' F2
> 
> ...



B' // 2x2x2
U R' F' R' // pseudo 2x2x3 (premove R2)
U2 // F2L-1
R' F D' F D R F' R' F2 R // EOLS
D2 B U' R2 U B' D' F2 D' F // ZBLL
R2 // add premove

B' U R' F' R' U2 R' F D' F D R F' R' F2 R D2 B U' R2 U B' D' F2 D' F R2 (27)


----------



## guysensei1 (Feb 19, 2015)

Is there some site that is like Weekly FMC, but daily?


----------



## Berd (Feb 19, 2015)

What does inverse mean in terms of FMC?


----------



## penguinz7 (Feb 19, 2015)

guysensei1 said:


> Is there some site that is like Weekly FMC, but daily?



I'm quite sure there is not, but not completely sure.. Maybe we should start one 



Berd said:


> What does inverse mean in terms of FMC?



Sometimes if you can't find anything good in a scramble, you use the inverse scramble. As an example lets use this scramble; R U R' U'. The inverse is basically that backwards and change every prime to a non-prime and other way around. So the inverse scramble here would be U R U' R'

Theres some mores stuff about NISS, but it's confusing and I don't even understand it that well.


----------



## lerenard (Feb 19, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> I'm not good at FMC at all, but I gave it a go. I don't really know what to do after my EO:
> 
> D F2 R2 D L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D' L D' F D' L2 F L' D' B' F2
> 
> ...



Other people have found better stuff already, but I suck so this 30-move solution is great for me:
U B'// 2x2
R' F' U R' U' F R' F2 R' // lots of blocks
L' U2 L F2 U R U R' U2 F2 U // F2 conjugation to solve everything but L3C
F' U2 F D F' U2 F D' // L3C


----------



## obelisk477 (Feb 19, 2015)

penguinz7 said:


> Once again I have a potentially awesome start, but can't find any continuations.. I've tried some NISS and single move insertions, but can't find anything.. You guys got anything?
> 
> B2 U2 F2 U R2 U2 L2 F2 U2 B2 L2 B' R D B2 L D B F L2 D'
> B2 F' D R' U B // 2x2x2
> D R F' x2 // 2x2x3



A 22 move L5C skeleton (Don't do the x2, first move cancels into yours):

B2 F' D R' U B // 2x2x2
D R *F'* // 2x2x3
*F’* R F // pair
D F D F' // EO 
R D’ R’ // pseudo F2L-1
D2 R’ D’ R' // L5C

Skeleton: B2 F' D R' U B D R F2 R F D F D F' R D’ R’ D2 R’ D’ R' (22)


----------



## Cubenovice (Feb 19, 2015)

guysensei1 said:


> You could do...
> R' D' F2 D R' //more blocks
> which reduces this to 6 unsolved pieces. A premove can turn this into a LL case but I don't know it.



Hmmm...
A 2E2c swap like N or T perm can solve the edges and a corner, leaving a corner cycle.
Should be sub 30


----------



## lerenard (Feb 20, 2015)

So I know we technically can use three cubes for FMC but do people actually do this? I can see one being used for the skeleton, one dedicated for insertions (possibly an unstickered cube that gets stickers on for that specific solve) but what's the point of a third cube?


----------



## Kit Clement (Feb 20, 2015)

lerenard said:


> So I know we technically can use three cubes for FMC but do people actually do this? I can see one being used for the skeleton, one dedicated for insertions (possibly an unstickered cube that gets stickers on for that specific solve) but what's the point of a third cube?


Two times that I don't have to solve and scramble again. And somewhat to save my place when I'm switching scrambles and I think I'll want to go back.


----------



## Prakhar (Feb 20, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> I'm not good at FMC at all, but I gave it a go. I don't really know what to do after my EO:
> 
> D F2 R2 D L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D' L D' F D' L2 F L' D' B' F2
> 
> ...



B'// 2x2x2
U R' F' R' U2// Psuedo F2L-1

Switch to inverse
Pre-Scramble: U2 R F R U' B
R F R// F2L-1 + 2x2x1

Switch to Normal
Pre Scramble: R' F' R'
B' U R' F' R' *U2*// F2L-1 + 2x2x1
*U'* R U R'// F2L + OLL skip

Switch to inverse
Pre-scramble: R U' R' U' R F R U' B
R *F R*// F2L + OLL skip
*R' F* R' F' U' R' U2 F' U' F U' R U R// PLL
Correction: R U' R' U' R F R U' B

Solution on inverse: R F2 R' F' U' R' U2 F' U' F U' R U R2 U' R' U' R F R U' B

Solution: B' U R' F' R' U R U R2 U' R' U F' U F U2 R U F R F2 R' (22)

Hope I wrote it down correctly.


----------



## guysensei1 (Feb 20, 2015)

lerenard said:


> So I know we technically can use three cubes for FMC but do people actually do this? I can see one being used for the skeleton, one dedicated for insertions (possibly an unstickered cube that gets stickers on for that specific solve) but what's the point of a third cube?



I've only ever done FMC officially once and I'm by no means a pro but I brought 3 ended up only using one cube for everything heheh


----------



## lerenard (Feb 20, 2015)

34 move NISS solution:
Scramble: U' R2 U B2 U' F2 U B2 D2 F2 L' U2 R' B2 F' R' U B L' D' U
Moves in (parentheses) done on inverse:
(L U R D' L2 B) // 2x2 (6)
(L' F' L) // 2x2 + 1x2x3 + pair (3/9)
F' D R D' F' D // EO (6/15)
R' F R2 F2 R2 F' R2 F R2 // skeleton (9/24)
D2 B R B' D2 F L' F L F2 // J Perm (10/34)
F' D R D' F' D R' F R2 F2 R2 F' R2 F R2 D2 B R B' D2 F L' F L F2 L' F L B' L2 D R' U' L 
34 htm
Any suggestions?


----------



## obelisk477 (Feb 21, 2015)

26 move PB!:

L2 F L2 U2 B' L2 B L2 B' R2 D2 U' F' L U' R' U' F2 L2 F 

L2 R’ F U’ L R U2 F2 B2 D’ F’ // XXXcross (11)
U R2 U’ // F2L (3/14)
D B R B’ R D’ R2 D’ F D F’ // OLL (11/25)
R2 // PLL Skip + AUF (1/26)


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## guysensei1 (Feb 22, 2015)

I just got this rather cool scramble...
L2 R2 D' R2 U B2 U R2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U2 B F L' R' D' F' U' F L2 



Spoiler



B2 U2 R2 makes a 2x2x3 with misaligned centers. I think you can make a skeleton out of that and insert M' E M E' somewhere...?


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## Kit Clement (Feb 22, 2015)

guysensei1 said:


> I just got this rather cool scramble...
> L2 R2 D' R2 U B2 U R2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U2 B F L' R' D' F' U' F L2
> 
> 
> ...



Nice m'eme'!


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## Attila (Feb 22, 2015)

guysensei1 said:


> I just got this rather cool scramble...
> L2 R2 D' R2 U B2 U R2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U2 B F L' R' D' F' U' F L2
> 
> 
> ...



In such a case always be used three different, but compatible insertion.
For example:
M' E M E'
E' S E S'
S' M S M'
There are 3 other groups, total of 12 algs.
If your skeleton is ready, keep in mind all three insertions, for the best cancellation.
I usually looking a slice move in skeleton, and placed the right insertion before or after.
For example an insertion of hardest scramble:


U2 L R'(M S M' S') F' 12 HTM
L R' M = x' 4 moves cancel
S' F' = z' B' 2 moves cancel
some luck: U2 L R' M S =U2 x' S = x' U D 1 more move cancel
after insertion: U D F B' L' 7 moves cancel.

With the usual blockbuilding skeleton, maybe a little harder to find a good insertion
( your 3-move block seems promising though  )


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## penguinz7 (Feb 22, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Nice m'eme'!



2015 Rubys (or whatever they'll be called..) meme of the year award?


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## Ollie (Feb 23, 2015)

Got to go to bed, any good continuations for this?

B' F' L B2 U' F' R B2 D L D' R2 B R' F L' R2 B2 D' U' L U D2 B R

B D' R2 U L U' D' F D' // 2x2x3 block


Spoiler



switch to inverse: R2 F' R' F2 R2 // F2L-1
switch to normal: F2 D' F D R F R' // 3 corners and 3 edges left

sucky insertions suck



Edit: it's not terrible, since I cancel a premove to make a 20-move skeleton, but 3 corners and 3 edges sucks


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## Robert-Y (Feb 23, 2015)

F2 R2 F R F2 R2 U F' U' leaves 3 corners.


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## Ollie (Feb 23, 2015)

Robert-Y said:


> F2 R2 F R F2 R2 U F' U' leaves 3 corners.



What (is that easy to see or are you just really pro at FMC?)

Edit: probably both, but I'm gutted that I missed that.

Edit 2: oh wait...really easy to see now


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## obelisk477 (Feb 23, 2015)

Is the convention for the dadams weekly comp to do 1 hour like normal? Or since it's week long, is it understood that you have more time


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## lerenard (Feb 23, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> 26 move PB!:
> 
> L2 F L2 U2 B' L2 B L2 B' R2 D2 U' F' L U' R' U' F2 L2 F
> 
> ...



Wow, that's cool that you got such a short solution, it bugs me that it was 26 moves and you didn't have to do any EO until the last layer, and then just got a skip D:
I found a non-lucky 30 move solution:
R' F* R B2 F2 R' D F2 L' U2 F // XXcross 9
U' B' U2 B U' // 4 corners left 5/16
*D' L D# R' D' L' D R
#U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U R2
Final: R' F D' L D U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U R D' L' D R2 B2 F2 R' D F2 L' U2 F U' B' U2 B U' 30 htm


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## obelisk477 (Feb 23, 2015)

lerenard said:


> Wow, that's cool that you got such a short solution, it bugs me that it was 26 moves and you didn't have to do any EO until the last layer, and then just got a skip D:
> I found a non-lucky 30 move solution:
> R' F* R B2 F2 R' D F2 L' U2 F // XXcross 9
> U' B' U2 B U' // 4 corners left 5/16
> ...


Yep, I got to the LL and saw no edges oriented, so I solved with standard OLL to rescramble and profited


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## Julian (Feb 23, 2015)

PB of 24 

F2 D2 U2 F' R2 B D2 R2 D2 B2 R D2 L' B2 F R2 D' F' L2
inv: L2 F D R2 F' B2 L D2 R' B2 D2 R2 D2 B' R2 F U2 D2 F2

on inverse:
U' B2 L' B' //2x2x1 (4/4)
U2 * R2 F' R' D' L F2 //2x2x3 (7/11)

Insert F' at * for better continuation. (1/12)
Then I undid the last 2 moves of the 2x2x3 (L F2), and finished F2L-1 with:
F2 R U2 R' //F2L-1 (4-2/14)
U2 L' B L B' //L3E (5/19)

skeleton on inverse: U' B2 L' B' U2 . F' R2 F' R' D' F2 R U2 R' U2 L' B L B'

insert U' F2 U D' L2 D at . cancelling 1 move for 24.

final solution on inverse: U' B2 L' B' U F2 U D' L2 D F' R2 F' R' D' F2 R U2 R' U2 L' B L B'
on normal: B L' B' L U2 R U2' R' F2 D R F R2 F D' L2 D U' F2 U' B L B2 U

Ending and insertion were both super lucky.


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## Kit Clement (Feb 23, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> Is the convention for the dadams weekly comp to do 1 hour like normal? Or since it's week long, is it understood that you have more time



I've always done it with a 1 hour time limit.


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## Julian (Feb 27, 2015)

Got 29 on R F D2 B L' U' B2 R2 D F2 R2 U2 L2 F R2 B' R2 B' L2 B

With a fluky 13-move F2L on inverse:

F D L F D'
L U' F' L' F' L2 U' F2

Anything interesting to be done here?

EDIT: 32, 29, 28 --> 29.67 mo3


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## Sebastien (Feb 27, 2015)

Attention, this is from the running forum competition:



Spoiler



Inverse scramble: F' U2 B L2 D' R' B2 L F D' B2 D2 F2 L' B2 L' B2 U2 F2 R

EO: F' R D L



The fact that I couldn't find better than 26 with this start is really driving me crazy.  

Can anyone else here do better?


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## jpbrc (Feb 28, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> Attention, this is from the running forum competition:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i did F R D L for EO and found a 19 moves ab3c  But couldn't find better than 26 too


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## okayama (Feb 28, 2015)

My winning solution from Waseda Brain Challenge 2015.

Scramble: B' U2 L' U' R F' R' D2 R' U' B' R2 D R2 D F2 R2
Solution: R2 F2 D' B L2 D' L' D F2 L F' L2 F' L' F L U' L' B L F' L' B' R B' L' (26 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B' D F2 R2 (makes 2 squares)

2x2x3 block: L B R' L F U

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: U' F' L' R B' L'

2x2x3 block: R2 F2 D' B
Orient edges: L2 D' L' D
F2L minus 1 slot: F2 L F'
All but 3 corners: L2 F' L' F L
Correction: U' * F' L' R B' L'

Insert at *: L' B L F' L' B' L F


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## Sebastien (Feb 28, 2015)

jpbrc said:


> i did F R D L for EO and found a 19 moves ab3c  But couldn't find better than 26 too



My continuation led to an N-Perm in 14 moves (total), that I could transfor to L3C in 20, resulting in the 26. Still, there are so many blocks, there need to be something better.


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## porkynator (Feb 28, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> Attention, this is from the running forum competition:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



On inverse:
F' * R D L
U' F' U2
On normal:
U2 D2 B D2 B2 U2
U F U' F U F2 U' F'

* = F L F' R2 F L' F' R2

25 HTM (insertion by IF)



What what your skeleton? And jpbrc's?


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## Sebastien (Feb 28, 2015)

Well done. 



porkynator said:


> What what your skeleton?





Spoiler



Inverse:
EO: F' R D L 
2x2x3: B' U F' U F2 
L3C: U B2 U2 B' U' B2 * U B U' B' U

* = B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D


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## jpbrc (Feb 28, 2015)

Spoiler



(inverse)
F R D L // EO
B' R2 B2 // pseudo 2x2x3
(switch)
U2 D2 // 2x2x3
F' L2 F2 U' F' U // F2L-1
F2 D F' D' // AB3C 

Skeleton: U2 * D2 F' L2 F2 U' F' U F2 D F' D' B2 R2 B L' D' R' F'

*= R' D' L2 D R D' L2 D



Edit:


Sebastien said:


> My continuation led to an N-Perm in 14 moves (total), that I could transfor to L3C in 20, resulting in the 26. Still, there are so many blocks, there need to be something better.


Did you try optimal N-perm?


Spoiler



Inverse:
EO: F' R D L 
2x2x3: B' U F' U F2 
F2L: U B2 U B' U 
N-perm: U' B U2 R2 B U' R2 U B' R2 U2 B' U B2

Solution: F' R D L B' U F' U F2 U B2 U' R2 B U' R2 U B' R2 U2 B' U B2* (23)*


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## Attila (Feb 28, 2015)

From 3x3x3 example solve thread:


Scramble: F' D' B2 F' L' D L B' R2 D2 R F' U2 L' D2 F2 L2 R B2 F L F' D' B' F2
My solution:
U' R U' orient corners,
B2 D B F' R D2 F' 6 edges,
R' B F' U2 F2 B2 D F D2 F2 B LSE.

Easy scramble, anyone try this?


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## porkynator (Feb 28, 2015)

Attila said:


> Scramble: F' D' B2 F' L' D L B' R2 D2 R F' U2 L' D2 F2 L2 R B2 F L F' D' B' F2





Spoiler



R' B' F U F' D2 F U' F2 D' F L D L' F' D' R2 F R (19)
On inverse with premoves B R:
R' F' R2
D F L D' L'
F' D F D2
D2 F U F' D2 F U' F'


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## Attila (Feb 28, 2015)

porkynator said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Congratz,
I guessed, that will be more nice solves, but it's sub20 really great


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## ottozing (Mar 1, 2015)

2nd scramble from BASC 5 everything but 2x2

B2 R2 B' L' D F' R D F2 R' U R2 U' F2 D2 F2 R2 U' F2 R2

L' D2 B2 U' L' (EO + ton of pairs)

Best I got within the hour was a 29 which is a bit disappointing.


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## Sebastien (Mar 1, 2015)

jpbrc said:


> Did you try optimal N-perm?



Yes, but the one that I know gave only 1 move cancelation. Yours definitely works better as I see.


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## EMI (Mar 1, 2015)

PB mean of 3: 26, 27, 26 -> 26.33 

scrambles from a German forum.



Spoiler



1. Scramble D2 B R U' D2 B' U' F L2 U L2 F2 D2 L2 B' R2 L2 U2 F'

2x2x2: D2 L D L U' R
add Premove L for another 1x2x2
Pseudo-2x2x3: D' B'
Switch, to L5C: B' D F' D' F L' B' L' B

Skeleton: D2 L D L @ U' R D' B2 L B L F' # D F D' B L (17)
@ = L' D L U L' D' L U' (8-4)
# = F D' B D F' D' B' D (8-3)

Total: D2 L D2 L U L' D' L U2 R D' B2 L B L D' B D F' D' B' D2 F D' B L (26)

2. Scramble D2 U2 R2 B' U2 F D2 F' R2 D L' R' B D2 B2 U' L R' D2 R2

2x2x2: U' F B' R2 U2 R'
F2L-1: D B L' B L' B2 L'
L3C: D' L' D2 L D L' @ D L R D R' (24)
@ = L D' R D L' D' R' D (8-5)

Total: U' F B' R2 U2 R' D B L' B L' B2 L' D' L' D2 L R D L' D' R' D2 L R D R' (27)

3. Scramble B2 L' D2 R' B2 R2 D2 R2 D2 F D L B U2 R' D' B2 F' R'

2x2x3 & EO: U2 B2 R2 B L F' L' U' L' @
L5C: U L' R U2 L R' # U (16)
@ = L D L' U' L D' L' U (8-3)
# = R D2 R' U2 R D2 R' U2 (8-3)

Total: U2 B2 R2 B L F' L' U' D L' U' L D' L' U2 L' R U2 L D2 R' U2 R D2 R' U' (26)



(PB was 26.67)

You might want to check out the third scramble, it's pretty nice 

Edit: I'm so stupid, this isn't even PB, just checked my signature lol

Edit 2: Just had another 26, so it is 26.33 of 5 PB. Possibly rolling a 30 next.

Scramble from the other German forum.


Spoiler



4. Scramble D L2 U2 B2 R2 B2 L2 D' B2 D' B' D F2 R' F L2 F2 D' L2 U2 L'

Premoves: B2 F' U'
2x2x3: U' # L R2 U2 D B'
L4C: R' D2 B' D2 B D' B' @ D B (17)

@ = B D' F D B' D' F' D (8-4)
# = U' R2 U L U' R2 U L' (8-3)

Total: U2 R2 U L U' R2 U R2 U2 D B' R' D2 B' D2 B D2 F D B' D' F' D2 B' F' U' (26)


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## Ranzha (Mar 3, 2015)

My 2nd and 3rd attempts from BASC 5: Everything But 2x2:

*2. B2 R2 B' L' D F' R D F2 R' U R2 U' F2 D2 F2 R2 U' F2 R2*


Spoiler



N: D' L2 F' L2 F L F L2 R D' // 2x2x3 [10]
I: R D' R D
R' U R' U' B2
R' B R2 B'
R' D' R D // Welp ****, I got AB3C [27]

Skeleton: D' L2 F' L2 F L F L2 R (1) D2 R' D R B R2 B' R B2 U R U' R D' R' D R' [27-1]

(1) [B U' B', D2]

Final: D' L2 F' L2 F L F L2 R B U' B' D2 B U B' R' D R B R2 B' R B2 U R U' R D' R' D R' [32]



*3. U' R2 F2 U' L2 B2 U' F2 U F2 D F2 L2 B R' D' U2 B' D' B' F U'*


Spoiler



U L
F' D' F U'
L' U L R2 // 2x2x3 [10]
Note: There were four different ways I saw to make this 2x2x3 in 10 moves based on these here. This one produced the coolest results, so I decided at 15 minutes I'd use it.

There was a lot I saw at this stage (like 10 more moves to F2L), but the best option I found 35 minutes in:
F' R' D' R D2 R2 D2 // AB5C [17]

Knowing how absolutely awful I am with finding corner commutators, and having never attempted to use a L5C skeleton in the past, I tried playing this one unbelievably safe.

Skeleton:
(1) U (2) L F' D' F U' L' U L R2 F' R' D' R D2 R2 D2 [17]

(1) [F' D2 F, U] // [8-2]
(2) [D, L' U' L] // [8-1]

Final:
F' D2 F U F' D2 F D L' U' L D' L' U L2 F' D' F U' L' U L R2 F' R' D' R D2 R2 D2 [30]
Optimal was 28.


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## not_kevin (Mar 3, 2015)

Ranzha said:


> *3. U' R2 F2 U' L2 B2 U' F2 U F2 D F2 L2 B R' D' U2 B' D' B' F U'*
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Related to the third scramble, as Ranzha mentioned, there were a bunch of ways to do it. I did a pretty bad solution for what existed (34 with a 9-move ZBLL, when I had a 21 -> 5 corners leading to a 25 -> 3 corners >.<), but after re-investigating it, I found the following skeleton:



Spoiler



U L U'
F' D' F
L' U L R2 // 2x2x3 [10]
Basically, do the "obvious" version of what Ranzha did, of making both blocks first without playing around with the interweaving.

F' R' D' R D2 R2 D2 // AB5C [17]
Then do literally the same ending 

Throwing this into Insertion Finder gives 26 optimal:
http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/78e9ae6a31c4e71a641f72027e0cf51c.cube


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## EMI (Mar 5, 2015)

D2 U2 R' F2 R' F2 D2 L2 R' B2 U B' R2 B2 L R U2 F' U

Edge-5-cycle + 4 corners: B2 L D2 F R'

I failed and only managed to get a 29 in 1 hour. And pros want to try? (IF doesn't do it)

Edit: Just found this cool continuation: F D R2 L B' L' R D R D' F' (pure edge-5-cycle). IF gives a 26 on that.


btw,
PB Average of 12: 27.70
30.00, (26.00), 27.00, 26.00, 26.00, (DNF), 27.00, 27.00, 30.00, 28.00, 27.00, 29.00


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## MatejMuzatko (Mar 6, 2015)

Hello everyone. I am kind of new to FMC. I did my first solution in november 2013 on Munich Open. It was over 50 moves. 
On all of my official solves yet, I've always done a CFOP solution, just waiting for nice LL. 
Now I started to feel dumb and became more interested in techniques like inverse scramble, premoves, insertions and NISS. (I knew all except NISS before, now after Jayden's explanation, even NISS is clear )
anyway, this is my first sub30 solve. I am starting to love FMC more and more . 
Insertions weren't so good, but it was one of my first tries of insertions, so I went safe and tried to get the 2 insertions right. 


Spoiler: 29



Scramble: F L2 B' L' D' R2 D2 R' U' R' U2 R U2 D2 R2 U2 B2 L F2
2x2x2: F U L D' F D F2 (7/7)
F2L-1: L' B2 U' * L' U' L' B L (8/15) 
All but 4 corners: L' U2 L U2 (4/19)
Cancellations: (-2/17)

insert at *: U B' + U' F' U B U' F
insert at +: F' D F U2 F' D' F U2

final solution: 
F U L D' F D F2 L' B F' D F U2 F' D' F U F' U B U' F L' U' L' B U2 L U2



Feel free to give me critism  I will try these techniques on competition next week. Wish me luck . Greetings from Czech Republic, home country of Mirek Goljan :3


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## Ollie (Mar 7, 2015)

B2 L' U2 F' U2 B' D' R' L2 U' B' F L2 R' U L2 D L D2 U2 R' B' D2 R2 F

Didn't like this scramble, but I found these cool things:



Spoiler



inverse: D B' U D' F // EO
switch to normal: R U' R2 U2 D B2 // 2x2x3
L D L' D2 L2 // F2L-1
*D' L' D2 L D // L4C

Ran out of time for insertions :/


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## Prakhar (Mar 7, 2015)

EMI said:


> D2 U2 R' F2 R' F2 D2 L2 R' B2 U B' R2 B2 L R U2 F' U
> 
> Edge-5-cycle + 4 corners: B2 L D2 F R'
> 
> ...



R U2 L' D2 L2 F' R' D2 R' D2// 3 edges and 4 corners.

Didn't have time for insertions. IF gives 24.


----------



## TheDubDubJr (Mar 7, 2015)

EMI said:


> D2 U2 R' F2 R' F2 D2 L2 R' B2 U B' R2 B2 L R U2 F' U
> 
> Edge-5-cycle + 4 corners: B2 L D2 F R'
> 
> ...




I finally had time to look at this because I always like to practice both edge-corner insertions outside of my normal FMC solves.

Actually the first thing I saw was that continuation you posted of the 5-edge cycle. Was pretty excited until I saw you commented that. :3

After that I would look at 6 and 8move edge comms and if nothing decent comes out I might check corners (if I have time). Otherwise I would just go with the 16 to L4C.


----------



## EMI (Mar 7, 2015)

Prakhar said:


> R U2 L' D2 L2 F' R' D2 R' D2// 3 edges and 4 corners.
> 
> Didn't have time for insertions. IF gives 24.



Nice! Now I kind of regret that I decided to only try one skeleton.



TheDubDubJr said:


> I finally had time to look at this because I always like to practice both edge-corner insertions outside of my normal FMC solves.
> 
> Actually the first thing I saw was that continuation you posted of the 5-edge cycle. Was pretty excited until I saw you commented that. :3
> 
> After that I would look at 6 and 8move edge comms and if nothing decent comes out I might check corners (if I have time). Otherwise I would just go with the 16 to L4C.



Sorry. ^^ But cool that you saw the same thing.
I ended up inserting U F' B L2 B' F U after three moves. There are 8 movers that cancel one at the same spot. Then I inserted a corner commutator that cancelled 5, so 15 moves 3C3E. But the best I found with that was 29 unfortunately.

Edit:
Average of 12: 27.60
(26.00), 27.00, 26.00, 26.00, (DNF), 27.00, 27.00, 30.00, 28.00, 27.00, 29.00, 29.00


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## porkynator (Mar 7, 2015)

EMI said:


> D2 U2 R' F2 R' F2 D2 L2 R' B2 U B' R2 B2 L R U2 F' U
> 
> Edge-5-cycle + 4 corners: B2 L D2 F R'
> 
> I failed and only managed to get a 29 in 1 hour. And pros want to try? (IF doesn't do it)



B2 (with premove B2) gives you Roux F2B; continuing Roux style gave me:

B2 L D2 F *R'* (your start)
*R'* L B' R' L U
F2 U R2 L2 D B2 //All but 3 corners

If finishes in 23



> btw,
> PB Average of 12: 27.70
> 30.00, (26.00), 27.00, 26.00, 26.00, (DNF), 27.00, 27.00, 30.00, 28.00, 27.00, 29.00


Nice average!


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## Randomno (Mar 7, 2015)

U2 F2 R2 L' B R F U2 F' U2 B2 U' B2 D B2 U R2 U' D2

x' y'
R' U' R2 U F U F'
B' R' L U L'
x' z' y'
U' R' F R U2 R U' R'

Without rotations:

U' B' U2 B L B L'
R' U' D B D'
U' B' R B U2 B U' B'

20 HTM to F2L minus 1 with last pair connected. Not sure what to do after this.


----------



## guysensei1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Randomno said:


> U2 F2 R2 L' B R F U2 F' U2 B2 U' B2 D B2 U R2 U' D2
> 
> x' y'
> R' U' R2 U F U F'
> ...



Insert the pair, do a Niklas (from the back) and it leaves 2 flipped edges

Solve with 2 insertions?


----------



## Randomno (Mar 7, 2015)

guysensei1 said:


> Insert the pair, do a Niklas (from the back) and it leaves 2 flipped edges
> 
> Solve with 2 insertions?



Nice, optimal 2 adjacent edge flip seems to be 13 OBTM though.


----------



## guysensei1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Randomno said:


> Nice, optimal 2 adjacent edge flip seems to be 13 OBTM though.



That's why i recommended solving it with2 edge commutators as insertions.


----------



## Prakhar (Mar 18, 2015)

Pre comp practice Mo3 using TNoodle scrambles.

Scramble- D' F2 D L2 R2 D B2 D L2 B2 D B R' D2 B' U' L2 B F2 U' L2
Solution- F2 L U' B' R U' R D' R' U R B2 D L2 B' D B2 R D' R2 B U R D R' U' R D' B' D2 L' (31 HTM)


Spoiler



Moves in () are done on inverse scramble

F2 L U' B' R2 // 2x2x2
D' B2 D L2 B' D B2 // F2L-1
(L D2 B R' B' R2 D R') // L4C

Skeleton: F2 L U' B' R2 D' @ B2 D L2 B' D B2 R D' R2 B R + B' D2 L'
@ : D R' U' R D' R' U R
+ : R' U R D R' U' R D'

Missed optimal insertion by 1 move :'(



Scramble- U' D B U2 B R2 F2 R' D2 F' D2 R2 F2 L' B2 D2 B2 L2 U2
Solution- F R' L D' B2 U2 B' L' B' L U2 R2 B L' B' R2 B L U B2 D B D' B R' B2 R B' U2 (29 HTM)


Spoiler



Moves in () are done on inverse scramble

F R' L D' // 2x2x2
B2 U2 B' L' B' L U2 B U // Psuedo F2L-1
(U2 B R' B2 R B' D B' D' B2) // L3C

Skeleton- F R' L D' B2 U2 B' L' B' L U2 B @ U B2 D B D' B R' B2 R B' U2
@ : B' R2 B L' B' R2 B L

Nice Solve 



Scramble- F R2 U2 F D2 F R2 U2 F' L2 R' U R2 D L' B D2 B F2 U
Solution- D' B D B' R B2 D R B2 R B R' F' R B' R2 F L2 B L' U L' B' L' F R' F' L2 F R (30 HTM)


Spoiler



Moves in () are done on inverse scramble

(F' L' B L U' L B' L2) // 2x2x2
(F' R F B2 R') // 2x2x3
(D' B2 R') // F2L-1
(B D' B' D) // L5C

Skeleton- D' B D B' R B2 D R B2 F' @ R' F L2 B L' U L' B' L F +
@ : F R B R' F' R B' R'
+ : F' L2 F R' F' L2 F R

Bad start, but nice ending 



Tips on the solves please. What could have been more efficient beginnings/ endings?


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## Kit Clement (Mar 18, 2015)

Had a really nice 25 move solution for the Berkeley scramble this week 



Spoiler



Scramble: F2 U D F' U' B' D' U B2 R' D' B L2 D2 R2 U' D2 B F D'

I: U2 F L' R2 B2 D' R \\PS F2L-2 with wrong pair (7/7)
N: B R B R' \\F2L-1 (4/11)
I: U R U2 R' U F' U2 F \\L3C (8/19)

Skel: B R B R' F' U2 F U' R U2 R' U' R' D B2 (1) R2 L F' U2

1: B L' B' R' B L B' R

Final: B R B R' F' U2 F U' R U2 R' U' R' D B' L' B' R' B L B' R' L F' U2 (25)


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## Randomno (Mar 18, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Had a really nice 25 move solution for the Berkeley scramble this week
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess I could just invert the solution but do you know the scramble?


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## Kit Clement (Mar 18, 2015)

Randomno said:


> I guess I could just invert the solution but do you know the scramble?


Oops, forgot to include it - I guess I implied it by saying the Berkeley competition:

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/


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## MatejMuzatko (Mar 22, 2015)

Hello everyone. I'd like to share my 28 moves tied NR single from Brno Open 2015 (at the moment the oldest Czech NR by Mirek Goljan)

Scramble (3rd): L R D2 L B2 R F2 U2 R' B' L' B2 L F L' B2 D' U2 B2 L2


Spoiler: Click



2x2x2: F2 D2 F' R (4/4)
switch to inverse
Pseudo 2x2x3: U' L U' L2 B2 (5/9)
insert pair: U F U' F' (4/13)
switch to normal
F2L-1 + EO: B' U2 F' L' F (5/18)
AB3C: L U L' U' (4/22)
_______________________________
Skeleton: F2 D2 F' R B' U2 F' L' F L U L' U' F U F' U' B2 L2 U L' + U (22) leaves me with a Niklas, so I had 31 backup solution in 20 minutes... so I had a lot of time to try insertions (I am not good at them yet)
insert at + : L' D L U' L' D' L U



Also, this scramble had BIG potential, but noone found anything special about it: 
Scramble (2nd) R D B2 U L' B2 D R B U F R2 U2 D B2 L2 U L2 (I did 31, but no longer have the solution) 

Big accomplishment for me


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## kinch2002 (Mar 22, 2015)

Edinburgh Spring 2015 scramble:
U2 F2 U2 R2 D2 L2 F D2 U2 F' D2 R' D' B2 U2 B' R2 D2 B' R D

My solution:
L2 D' L' B R' U L B2 L' F L B2 L' F2 D F' R' D B' D' F B R2 D2 R2 (25)

L2 D' L' B R' U F' // (7) 2x2x3. This is a 5 move 2x2x2 with an R' added and the finish the block with F'
D F' R' F D B' D' B // (15) EO + 2x2x1 with Standard conjugates. The 2nd part was designed to make the 2x2x1 block as well
R2 D2 R2 // (18) Finish edges, leaving 4 corners
Skeleton: L2 D' L' B R' U ^ F' D F' R' F D B' D' * B R2 D2 R2 (18)
Insert D B D' F' D B' D' F at * to cancel 8 moves
Insert L B2 L' F L B2 L' F' at ^ to cancel 1 move
At first it seemed I must have done something really stupid given that I cancelled 8 moves with my first insertion, but look through the solution linearly, I see that during EO I do 2 conjugates, and I should do the 2nd one before the last move of the first one. This is something I've never considered before, but if I had I could have saved some effort, and just left myself with 3 corners at 18 moves instead.
I haven't actually checked that the second insertion is optimal, as I had very little time left at the end and didn't quite get to the end of the skeleton.


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## Sebastien (Mar 24, 2015)

Well done Daniel. 

The first scramble of this weeks german forum competition is really crazy: B' U2 F2 U2 R2 U2 R2 B R2 F L2 D R2 U F2 R B2 D2 R' U B2 

Extremely blockish and also very skippy. There is a very obvious L3C in 19 and a quite obvious 21 move PLL skip. My solution was 20 moves (tripod with sledgehammer finish). I just wonder if someone finds a sub20 solution for it.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Same scramble as Daniel's, I should have tied him apparently but I failed insertions . I also lost my working sheet, so I'm not certain these insertions are exactly what I had, but I think they're right.

U2 F2 U2 R2 D2 L2 F D2 U2 F' D2 R' D' B2 U2 B' R2 D2 B' R D

(D' U' L' B L' B') //222 + edge on inverse
R2 F U2 F' //223
R' F' U' F U' B U B' //EO + preserve stuff + accidentally all edges

Skeleton: R2 F U2 F' R' F' * U' @ F U' B U L B' L U D (16)
* = F' U B U' ** F U B' U'
** = U' F' D' F U F' D F

Solution: R2 F U2 F' R' F2 U B U2 F' D' F U F' D F2 U B' U2 F U' B U L B' L U D (28)

Should have put @ = U' B' U F U' B U F' to cancel 6 moves on the first insertion but didn't spot it. Still PB I guess.


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## ichcubegerne (Mar 26, 2015)

A short question, because I read that in a FMC solution, but never heard of it before 
What is AB3C ?


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## Brest (Mar 26, 2015)

ichcubegerne said:


> What is AB3C ?
> Never read that in a FMC solution



All But Three Corners


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## ichcubegerne (Mar 26, 2015)

Thanks, I just read L3C until now


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## Username (Mar 28, 2015)

First two FMC europe solves were insanely lucky for me

1st solve was a PLL skip

2nd was LL skip


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## obelisk477 (Mar 28, 2015)

Username said:


> 2nd was LL skip



Did you at least have to force the OLL?


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## okayama (Mar 28, 2015)

My solutions from FMC Europe 2015.

1st scramble: B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2
1st solution: F D' B L B D F D' B D F2 D' F' D2 B' D2 F' D2 F B' L D' L' D B2 U2 (26 moves)


Spoiler



45 min solution.

Pre-scramble: B U2

2x2x2 block: F D' B L B
2x2x3 block: D F' * D' F'
F2L minus 1 slot: B D2 B'
Orient edges: D2 F' D2 F
All but 3 corners: B' L D' L' D B
Correction: B U2

Insert at *: F2 D' B D F2 D' B' D



2nd scramble: U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2
2nd solution: F2 D' R F R' F' D2 F2 D2 F2 D L D' L' F' D' L2 D' B U2 B' U' B D' F U2 F' D F U2 (30 moves)


Spoiler



15 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
2x2x2 block: B' F' U B U2 B'
2x2x3 block: D L2

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L2 D' B U2 B' U' F B

c/e pairs: F2
Orient edges: D' R F R'
Finish F2L: F' D2 F2 D2 F
All but 3 corners: F D L D' L' F' D'
Correction: L2 D' B U2 B' U' F B
Corner 3-cycle: F' D' F U2 F' D F U2

With the same premoves,
c/e pairs: F2
Orient edges: D2 L D' L'
Finish F2L: D F2 D' F'
All but 3 corners: R F D F' D' R' D'
Corner 3-cycle: D B D' F' D B' D' F
Correction: L2 D' B U2 B' U' F B

gives 30 moves, not better than above. 



3rd scramble: U2 F' R D B' D' F2 L' D2 R' F B2 U' L2 B2 U2 D B2 D B2
3rd solution: F R2 U' F2 B' R' B' R F' R2 B' R2 B R U2 D2 F2 U F' R' L' F' R' F L F' R2 (27 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F' U R2 F'

2x2x3 block: R' F R F U' F2 D2 U2

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: U2 D2 F2 U F' R' F' R

2x2x3 block: F R2 U' F
F2L minus 1 slot: B' F R' B' R F'
All but 3 corners: R2 B' R2 B R
Correction: U2 D2 F2 U F' R' * F' R

Insert at *: L' F' R' F L F' R F


With the same premoves,

2x2x3 block: F R2 U' F
All but 3 corners: B' F R' B' R' B' R2 B R2 F' R'
Correction: U2 D2 F2 U F' R' F' R

or

Tripod: F R2 U B2 U2 F
All but 4 corners: B R' B' R2

give 27 moves, not better than above. 


26, 30, 27 = 27.67 AsR. 

I was not in good condition because I have a fever today.
I hope I could manage Sub 30 on the 2nd scramble...

Congrats to the winners, with Sub 27 mean! Awesome!

EDIT: Official Rolling Average of 12: 24, (21), (33), 25, 30, 30, 28, 31, 26, 26, 30, 27 = 27.7.


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## Username (Mar 28, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> Did you at least have to force the OLL?



I did some last layer block forcing (made a 2x2x1 block while inserting last pair, ended up skipping the rest)


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## Jimmy Liu (Mar 28, 2015)

okayama said:


> 26, 30, 27 = 27.67 AsR.


Congratulations for your huge success at FMC Europe 2015, which makes it even harder for me to get a AsR^^.


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## Marcel P (Mar 28, 2015)

My winning solutions from FMC Europe 2015 (official Single and Mean PB):

1st Scramble: B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2
1st Solution: D R D2 F R2 U' R' U2 R D U B U' F U' B' U F' D' B' R F2 U2 (23)


Spoiler



Premove U2
pseudo 2x2x3: D R D2 F
switch and 2x2x3 + orient 2 Edges: F2 R' B
switch and pseudo F2L-1 + many Pairs(Keyhole): R2 U' R' U2 R D
L3C: U B U2 B' U D'
Skeleton: D R D2 F R2 U' R' U2 R D U B U2 B' $ U D' B' R F2 U2 (20)
$ = B U F U' B' U F' U' (5 Move Cancellation )


2nd Scramble: U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2
2nd Solution: D2 R' B' R F' R' B R D F' D2 F' D' F' D2 F2 R2 F D' F D F2 U B' U L U (27)


Spoiler



On Inverse Scramble:
EO (R2,L2,U,D,F,B): U' L'
2x2x2: U' B U'
2x2x3: F2 D' F' D F' R2
lucky L3C: F2 D2 F D F D2 F D' F D2
Skeleton: D2 % F' D F' D2 F' D' F' D2 F2 R2 F D' F D F2 U B' U L U (21)
% = R' B' R F' R' B R F (2 Move Cancellation)


3rd Scramble: U2 F' R D B' D' F2 L' D2 R' F B2 U' L2 B2 U2 D B2 D B2
3rd Solution: F R' B' R' F2 B2 R' F' R B2 R' F R2 F' B' U R' D B D' R2 B R B R' B' R2 D2 (28)


Spoiler



Premove D2
2x2x3: F R2 * F2 R F' B2 U
EO + Pairs: R' D B D' R2
L4C: B R B R' B' R2 (19)
* = R B' R' F2 + R B R' F2 (6 Move Cancellation!)
+ = B2 R' F' R B2 R' F R (1 Move Cancellation)



Mean: 26.00

Congratulations to all PB's and the many sub 30 Means


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## EMI (Mar 28, 2015)

FMCE


Spoiler: Solutions



1st: B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2
2x2x2: B L' F2 B2 @ U2
3c3e: B' D F D' F' D B R B R D2 # (16)
@ = B' U' R U' R' U2 B (7-1)
# = D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F (8-2)
Total: B L' F2 B U' R U' R' U2 B U2 B' D F D' F' D B R B R F' U' F D2 F' U F (28)

2nd: U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2
Start on inverse - 2x2x2: U2 B U'
Blocks: R'
Switch to normal, Pseudo-F2L-1: D2 R2 F R F R2 D2 (add premoves: F D')
3 pairs: R F D' F' D
Rest: B D B' R B D' B' R
Total: D2 R2 F R F R2 D2 R F D' F' D B D B' R B D' B' R F D' R U B' U2 (26)

3rd: U2 F' R D B' D' F2 L' D2 R' F B2 U' L2 B2 U2 D B2 D B2
Pseudo-2x2x3: F R2 [U2] F2 R F' U
Switch to inverse, F2L-1: D2 B R B R
2+2 Corners: B2 R' U R U' B'
Skeleton: F R2 U2 F2 R F' U B U # R' U' R B2 R' @ B' R' B' D2 (18)
@ = R B2 R' F' R B2 R' F (8-6)
# = U' B U F U' B' U F' (8-3)
Total: F R2 U2 F2 R F' U B2 U F U' B' U F' R' U' F' R B2 R' F B' R' B' D2 (25)


Mean: 28, 26, 25 -> 26.33 PB and third in Germany! 

Btw, Jan Bentlage found the exact same solution to the third scramble, which surprised me as it isn't a very obvious skeleton.

Congrats to everyone who set a PB! Everybody else, well we all know FMC is partly based on luck, so it's only a matter of time


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## joey (Mar 29, 2015)

This was my first attempt since 2013.

FMCE:
scramble: B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2
2x2x2: F U' L2 U' F
2x2x1: D' B' R B' R'
2x2x1: D2 R' B2 R2 B' R' B2 R'
F2L: D' R D R' D
LL: L' D L B L' D' L D B' D' B2


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## Attila (Mar 29, 2015)

FMCE 3rd scramble: U2 F' R D B' D' F2 L' D2 R' F B2 U' L2 B2 U2 D B2 D B2
My solution: L D' F U L' R B2 R2 B' F' U' F B' R F2 B' R F B2 L' F' B D B R' L2 B2 L2 F' B2 D 31 moves


Spoiler



First try, I found a 9 move optimal solution for corners, on inverse:
D' B D2 B' D2 B R' B R' (D' B D B separate, then PBL, with 3 moves cancel)
After some bad attempts on inverse, I switched this alg. to normal scramble:
R B' R B' D2 B D2 B' D.
If I use the last D as premove:
R B' R orient,
B' D2 4 matching corner-pairs
B D2 B' solve.
So, I begin to solve based on this:

Premove: D
L D' F orient corners and 2 edges,
U L' R 2 more edges,
B2 R2 B' F' U' F B' R 2 more edges,
F2 B' R F B2 L' F' B D B R' L2 B2 L2 F' B2 LSE + edges swap (quite hard case, CE says 15 moves).
I finished in the 60th minutes. Maybe would be better continuation after first 6 moves, but I ran out of time.



Congrats to the many great solves!


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## porkynator (Mar 29, 2015)

My solves from FMC Europe 2015


Spoiler



1st Scramble: B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2
My solve (NOT DNF):


Spoiler



On inverse with premoves R D'
U2 D F //2x2x1 (3/3+2)
B D2 R' //2x2x2 + pairs (3/6+2)
F R' U F' //F2L-1 (4/10+2)
And then something random, I don't remember exactly. After that nice F2L-1 in 12 I only had 20 minutes left, I decided to go for a backup solution but I kept writing down the skeletons wrong and I ran out of time. 34 moves total.


2nd Scramble: U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2
My solve (27):


Spoiler



F' B' D B * U B' //2x2x2 (6/6)
U D F' D' F2 U' F L //All but a few pieces (8/14)
R' F' U' F U R U2 //All but 3 edges (7/21)
* = L' R D2 L R' B2


3rd Scramble: U2 F' R D B' D' F2 L' D2 R' F B2 U' L2 B2 U2 D B2 D B2
My solve (27):


Spoiler



Premove D2
F R2 [U'] F2 R F' [B2] U //2x2x3 [+EO] (8/8+1)
B' R' B R B2 //Two pairs (5/13+1)
(B2 R2 B2 R2 B) //F2L (on inverse) (5/18+1)
Sune LL
I found the same 28 moves solution as Marcel, and in the last 10 minutes I found this one.






34, 27, 27 = 29.33 not great


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## cubizh (Mar 29, 2015)

This is my second FMC Europe 2015 solve:

Scramble: U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2

F U' F D // 2x2x2 RBY block (1 move cancel to next step) - 4 (4)
R' U' R' F' U' F // 2x2x3 block - 6 (10) 
L' U2 L2 U L' B L B' // F2L-1 - 8 (18) 
F U2 F' U' F U F' // F2L - 7 (25)
Rw U R' U' Rw' F R F' U // LL - 9 (34)

Disappointed that I couldn't find a proper insertion for the last 3 corners. I could have saved 3 moves. I have never done this kind of search before, since I'm not too comfortable with it, so I think it was still a pretty good (lucky) result for me.



Spoiler: Scramble 1 (46)



Scramble: B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2

U' F L2 U' F // 2x2x2 WGO block - 5 (5)
D' B2 D' B L B' L' // 2x2x3 block - 7 (12)
B R' B R D' R2 D // F2L - 1 (cancels at the end) - 7 (19)
B' R' B' R B R' // F2L - 6 (25)
Lw' B' L B' L' B L B' L' B2 R' // OLL cancelled 1 move - 11 (36)
D' R' D' R D R D R D' R // U perm - 10 (46)

Considering optimal LL in this case is 12 my 21 move LL is atrocious but my knowledge of dealing with the last layer for fewest moves and time didn't allow for more.


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## Username (Mar 29, 2015)

First try at NISS

Scramble: B F D2 U2 B R2 F' D2 F2 L2 D L U F' D' U B2 R F R' 

Premove: F'

R B F2 D' F /2x2x2
R' B' D' R D /2x2x3
(B' L U' L2 B' L B) /switch and f2l-1
U' L' B' L2 D2 R' F' R U R' U' R D2 L' /switch and solve the rest
F' /Undo Premove


Solution: R B F2 D' F R' B' D' R D U' L' B' L2 D2 R' F' R U R' U' R D2 L' B' L' B L2 U L' B F'

I looked up the end on cube explorer, really only did this as an experiment on if I am able to NISS and understand how the switching stuff works


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## joey (Mar 29, 2015)

cubizh said:


> Scramble: U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2
> 
> F U' F D // 2x2x2 RBY block (1 move cancel to next step) - 4 (4)



I failed so hard by not finding this :/


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## Krohag92 (Mar 30, 2015)

My 23 solution from FMC Europe 2015

Scr: B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2


1)On inv: U2 (PAIR)

2)On scr: D R D2 F R' (2X2X1 + 2X2X1)

3)On inv: F2 B (2X2X3)

4)On scr: R' U B' R B2 U B' U' (FL-1 & L5C)

5)On scr: D R D2 F R2 U B' R * B2 U B' U'
* R' B' L2 B R B' L2 B (4 Move Cancellation)

6)On scr: D R D2 F R2 U B2 L2 * B R B' L2 B' U B' U'
* L B R' B' L' B R B' (4 Move Cancellation)

Final Solution: D R D2 F R2 U B2 L' B R' B' L' B R2 B' L2 B' U B' U' B' F2 U2 (23)
It's not PB, but very nice solve. And after i ruined my mo3 (36 and 38)


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## Randomno (Mar 30, 2015)

FMC is annoying.

R2 U2 B2 U2 D2 B' L' F' D' R2 D2 F2 B R2 D2 B U2 B' R2 L2

y R2 L F2 R'
z U' B' R U2 R2 U' R'

Meh.

Still can't do commutators optimally.


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## Berd (Mar 31, 2015)

Randomno said:


> FMC is annoying.
> 
> R2 U2 B2 U2 D2 B' L' F' D' R2 D2 F2 B R2 D2 B U2 B' R2 L2
> 
> ...


Don't rotate!


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## Randomno (Mar 31, 2015)

Berd said:


> Don't rotate!



Yeah I'd obviously edit them out of a final solution but I didn't get that far.


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## EMI (Mar 31, 2015)

I would highly recommend getting used to not using cube rotations (even when you are just searching). It takes a while, but in the end it will be faster than thinking about cube rotations, and NISS and insertions are painful with cube rotations.


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## Ranzha (Apr 1, 2015)

I never understood why not writing rotations was hard o_o
Colours and move labels literally biject


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## Brest (Apr 1, 2015)

2nd scramble from FMC Europe

<5 mins - nearly linear

U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2

F U' F D R2 // 2x2x2
U' F' U L' U2 F // 2x2x3
L // square
B' U' B U' // F2L
D L D F' D' F L' D' L // LL

F U' F D R2 U' F' U L' U2 F L B' U' B U' D L D F' D' F L' D' L (25)


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## kinch2002 (Apr 1, 2015)

Brest said:


> 2nd scramble from FMC Europe
> 
> <5 mins - nearly linear
> 
> ...


LL: U L2 U' L' F' D' L' D F L to cancel a move with F2L and get 24


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## ottozing (Apr 3, 2015)

27.33 Mo3 on the FMC Europe scrambles. All sub hour.

First solve: 27


Spoiler: Solution



B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2

Inv
F' L R2 U (EO)
L2 F' B' R B' R' (2x2x2)
D2 (2x2x3)
Switch
B2 L2 B' L' B2 (AB3E3C)

Skeleton: B2 L2 B' ^ L' B2 D2 R B R' B F L2 U' R2 L' F (16)

^ B * U B' D2 B U' B' D2
* B2 U' D L2 U D'

Solution: B2 L2 B2 U' D L2 U2 D' B' D2 B U' B' D2 L' B2 D2 R B R' B F L2 U' R2 L' F (27)



Second solve: 29


Spoiler: Solution



U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2

F' D U' R2 F R2 (2x2x2)
U' F2 U' L F (XXcross)
U' F U F' (F2L-1)
B' U B U2 (AB5E)


Skeleton: * F' D U' R2 F R2 U' F2 U' L F U' F U F' B' U B U2 (19)

* L R' U R L' B'

New skeleton: L R' U R L' B' F' D U' R2 F R2 U' F2 U' L F U' F U F' :^) B' U B U2 (25)

:^) I got to this point from the start of the scramble to here and realized I could just insert the pair with R L' D' B D R' L U2 and solve the cube lol

Solution: L R' U R L' B' F' D U' R2 F R2 U' F2 U' L F U' F U F' R L' D' B D R' L U2 (29)



Third solve: 26


Spoiler: Solution



U2 F' R D B' D' F2 L' D2 R' F B2 U' L2 B2 U2 D B2 D B2

L (Make pair+reduce to 4 wrong edges)
Switch
B D2 F' L' (EO)
B2 L2 (Pseudo 2x2x2)
Switch
D' (2x2x2)
R2 F (Pseudo 2x2x3)
Switch
R2 F' (2x2x3 + blox)
Switch
U2 R2 (AB3E3C)

Skeleton: L D' R2 F * U2 R2 F R2 L2 B2 L F D2 B' (14)

* U' F B' R2 F' & B U'
& D' F2 D B D' F2 D B'

Solution: L D' R2 F U' F B' R2 F' D' F2 D B D' F2 D U R2 F R2 L2 B2 L F D2 B' (26)



First one was optimal insertions, second beat IF by 2 moves, and third was one move from optimal.


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## TheDubDubJr (Apr 3, 2015)

FMC Europe Scrambles - also all Sub-hour

1st Scramble: B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2
1st Solution: B L' B L' U B F2 U2 R2 F' R' U' R' U R' F U R' D R U' R' D' F' U R' B' R2 B F (30)


Spoiler



Normal
n: B L' B L' U B // 2x2x2 (6/6)
F2 U2 F' // pseudo 2x2x3 (3/9)
switch
i: F' B' R2 B R U' // F2L-1 (6/15)
F R F' R U' R U R F R2 F' // 24 to L3C (11-2/24)

skeleton:
B L' B L' U B F2 U2 R2 F' R' U' R' U R' F (U R' D R U' R' D' R) R' F' U R' B' R2 B F // cancels 2

optimal 


2nd Scramble: U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2
2nd Solution: L2 U2 R2 B U2 L2 D2 F D F U' F R2 L2 U2 F2 U L B' U2 F' B L F L U L F' (28)


Spoiler



All on Normal
premove F' // (1/1)
D F U' F R2 L2 U2 F2 // 2x2x3 (8/9)
U L F' L' F L U L // 17 to L5E (8/17)

skeleton:
(234) D F U' F R2 L2 U2 F2 U L (512) F' L' F L U L F'

(234) L2 U2 R2 B U2 L2 D2 F // cancels 0 (8/25)

(512) B' U2 F' B L2 F // cancels 3 (6-3/28)
optimal 


3rd Scramble: U2 F' R D B' D' F2 L' D2 R' F B2 U' L2 B2 U2 D B2 D B2
3rd Solution: D' F B2 U2 R' D2 R U' R' F' R F R' F2 B' L' B2 F L F' L2 (21)


Spoiler



n: D' F B2 U // EO & switch (4/4)
i: L2 F L' // 2 2x2x1s & switch (3/7)
n: R' // 2x2x1 and 3x2x1 & switch (1/8)
i: F' B2 L B F2 // F2L-1 (5/13)
R F' R' F D2 // 18 to L3C (5/18)

skeleton: 
D' F B2 U (U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R) R' D2 F' R F R' F2 B' L' B2 F L F' L2 // cancels 5
optimal 



Mean: 26.33
Lucky last solve saves the day 

21 Ties PB single


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## TeddyKGB (Apr 6, 2015)

My winning solutions from Fabulous Minnesota Competition 2015

Mean: *29*

*30* - U' B U' D' B' D2 F R' U R L2 B2 D2 L2 F L2 F2 B R2 D2



Spoiler



D2 B' D2 B2 D' // 2x2x2
R B R' // 2x2x3
L' U L U' L' U' L // F2L -1
L U' L' U B' U B U B' U B // L3C

Skeleton - D2 B' D2 B2 D' R B R' L' U L U' L' U' L2 U' L' U B' U B U B' @ U B

Insert at @: B' U F U' B U F' U'

Solution - D2 B' D2 B2 D' R B R' L' U L U' L' U' L2 U' L' U B' U B U B2 U F U' B U F' B



*29* - L' D B' U' R2 U' F D F' B2 R U' L2 U' D' F2 U D F2 



Spoiler



L R F2 // 2x2x1
D2 L' // another 2x2x1
Switch to inverse
F2 D L F' D2 F' // 2x2x3
U // F2L -1
L' B2 L B U' L U L' B2 U B U' // L3C

Skeleton - L R F2 D2 L' U B' U' B2 L U' L' @ U B' L' B2 L U' F D2 F L' D' F2 

Insert at @: L' D' L U L' D L U' 

Solution - L R F2 D2 L' U B' U' B2 L U' L2 D' L U L' D L B' L' B2 L U' F D2 F L' D' F2



*28* - F R L' D2 L2 F' U D' F R' D2 B2 D2 B2 L2 D2 L D2 B2 L' 



Spoiler



D L' // 2x2x1
B2 R' //another 2x2x1
B' R B2 F2 // Pseudo 2x2x3
D L' B D' B2 F // F2L -1
Switch to inverse
B' U B U' L2 U' L' U L' // L3C

Skeleton - D L' B2 R' B' R B2 F2 @ D L' B D' B2 F L U' L U L2 U B' U' B 

Insert at @: F' D B2 D' F D B2 D' 

Solution - D L' B2 R' B' R B2 F D B2 D' F D B2 L' B D B2 F L U' L U L2 U B' U' B


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## penguinz7 (Apr 9, 2015)

B2 R2 D' F2 R2 D2 R2 D2 U F2 U L' F2 D' R2 F' L F R2 B U

B # L2 R D' R2 U R D2 //2x2x3
U' R U' * R' // F2L-1
F2 L F L2 U L U' F2 //AB4C


# - B' U' B D' B' U B D

* - F2 R B' R' F2 R B R'
Final Solution
U' B D' B' U B D L2 R D' R2 U R D2 U' R U' F2 R B' R' F2 R B R2 F2 L F L2 U L U' F2
33
If I had taken the time to find better insertions, I probably could have gotten too at least 30 but I'm ok with this. What can you guys find?


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## irontwig (Apr 9, 2015)

My quick attempt:

R L D R2 D' L' D R2 L B R L' U2 R' L2 U' F' L' R U R' U' R U' R' L U F2 U' (29)

R D.L B [2x2x2]
R L' U2 R' L2 [F2L-1]
U' F' [EO]
L' [Pseudo F2L-1]
R U R' U' R U' R' [Conjugate to leave three corners]
L U F2 U' [Pseudoness]

.=D' L D R2 D' L' D R2

Should be something better somewhere


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## porkynator (Apr 9, 2015)

U' R D L F2 B R U' R' L F
R U' R' U2 R U R'
F U F' U F U2 F' U2 = 26

or

U' R D L2 F L' U' F
U2 B U' L U2 F U all but 4 corners in 15


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## irontwig (Apr 9, 2015)

B U' L'
R B2 D F2
U L D' U L U2 L' D U
F

But then no nice insertions.


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## Attila (Apr 11, 2015)

I found in 50 mins:
D' R' F B' D' R2 L' U2 L2 D2 B2 L' B' D U' L F D' B D L' F2 22 moves

On inverse: F2 L D' B' D orient corners and 5 edges,
switch: D' R' F B' D' 1 more edge,
switch: F' L' U D' B
L B2 D2 L2 U2 L R2 LSE.


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## penguinz7 (Apr 11, 2015)

U' B2 D' R2 U B2 F2 D L2 B2 L U2 R2 D F D' L2 F' U' B2

L' B2 R' F' U //2x2
F2 L F2 L2 // 2x2x3
F L D2 L' F' D2 //Pairs and stuff
F * D2 F D // F2L
L F L' F L F2 L' //AB3C

* - B' U B D2 B' U' B D2 cancels two moves

Final: L' B2 R' F' U F2 L F2 L2 F L D2 L' F' D2 F B' U B D2 B' U' B F D L F L' F L F2 L' 32


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## EMI (Apr 13, 2015)

New PBs!
Mean of 3: 25.00
Average of 5: 26.00
Average of 12: 26.80
29, 26, 25, (DNF), 26, 29, 28, 26, 25, 27, (23), 27
Note: I calculate my PBs by saving every single solve that I do in a big session, so this includes three official solves.
The DNF should have been a 26, as I had an L3C in 20 moves with 5 minutes left, which usually is more than enough, but I failed.

Edit: Rolled out the 29 with a 27, so 26.60 Average of 12!


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## Hssandwich (Apr 13, 2015)

I suck soooo badly at FMC, until now apparently,
U R2 B L' B L2 U' R2 U F2 R L2 D2 F2 L2 U2 F2 R2 L' U2

B2 R2 D2° F R F' //F2L-1
B U B' U2 B U B' //F2L
F U R U' R' F' U // LL

Insert at ° L F R F' L' F R' F' to cancel 3 moves

Final solution:

B2 R2 D2 L F R F' L' B U B' U2 B U B' F U R U' R' F' U (27) lolwat stupid scramble though


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## irontwig (Apr 13, 2015)

B2 R2 D2 F B' R F R' B R F B2 L F L' U' L' U L U B2 (21)

B2 R2 D2 F R.F' [Your F2L-1]
B2 F' L F L' U' L' U L U B2 [L3C]

.=R' B' R F R' B R F'


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## irontwig (Apr 19, 2015)

Well, I don't really want to moan and complain, but my two last solves for the Berkeley FMC has contained skeletons where the human of doing the insertion that cancels the most moves first has not only produced sub-optimal solutions but actually 2 and 3 moves away from optimal. Does anybody have a rough idea how likely this is?


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## Hssandwich (Apr 19, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> I suck soooo badly at FMC, until now apparently,
> U R2 B L' B L2 U' R2 U F2 R L2 D2 F2 L2 U2 F2 R2 L' U2
> 
> B2 R2 D2° F R F' //F2L-1
> ...



Wat, just realised it was in QTM, in OBTM it is 22.


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## Laura O (Apr 19, 2015)

My 25 move solution from German Open 2015:

Scramble: L' F L2 U2 F L' F B R B' R2 B2 R2 U2 F2 U' F2 R2 B2 D2

Pre: L
2x2x3: D R2 B R' F2 B' L U2
L3C: U' F U F2 R' D2 F' D2 F D2 R *

* = R' F L2 F' R F L2 F'

Solution: D R2 B R' F2 B' L U F U F2 R' D2 F' D2 F D2 L F L2 F' R F L2 F'


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## BQ (May 2, 2015)

My 28.67 results from Cube of Prime Numbers 2015, which broke my pb and the NR in China.



Spoiler



1. scramble: L2 B D2 R B' L2 D' B U' R F L' F2 R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 L2
222: D' # B2 L' D U' B'
switch to inverse scramble:
223: F2 D' F' * B' D B
F2l-1: D' F' D2 F2
L4C: R' D R2 F' R' F
#: D B U B' D' B U' B' (3 moves canceled)
*: F R' F' L' F R F' L

solution: B U B' D' B U' B L' D U' B' F' R F R2 D' R F2 D2 F D B' D' B L' F R' F' L F R D F2 (33 moves)
I had no enough time to find the optimal insertions.





Spoiler



2. scramble: R2 U2 R2 B' F' D2 R2 F' R' F2 U2 R' B U2 B D B R2 U'
on inverse scramble:
223: F2 L' U F2 D U2 L2 D' F2
233: R F' R F R' D R' D R' D' R2 D R
OLL: B R D R' D' B'

solution: B D R D' R' B' R' D' R2 D R D' R F' R' F R' F2 D L2 U2 D' F2 U' L F2 (26 moves)

Really lucky pll skip.





Spoiler



3. scramble: L2 F2 R2 U L2 D' R2 U B2 L' B' F2 L' B R2 F' U B2 L2 F2
on invsere scramle:
222: L' F U' R2 B D'
L4C: F U' R # U2 R U2 F2 R U R' U' R2 *
#: R' U L' U' R U L U' (5 moves canceled)
*: R2 F L F' R2 F L' F' (2 moves canceled)

solution: F L F' R2 F L' F' U R U' R' F2 U2 R' U' L' U' R' U L F' D B' R2 U F' L

The IF said it's optimal.


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## tseitsei (May 7, 2015)

Nice 29 move solve for speedsolving weekly forum comp  sub-30 is still always a pleasant surprise for me



Spoiler



1. U' F U2 D F U' R F U2 B L2 F2 B2 L' U2 L2 D2 L F2 L' D2

L F' R U' [2] D' R2 //2x2+free pair
L2 F [1] L' // square
U' F2 L F L2 //another square
U2 L2 F' // finish F2L-1 and EO
D' L' D L' //solve edges leaving corner 3-cycle and one twisted corner

[1]= [F' : L' B' L] insert at [1] and 5 moves cancel
[2]= [R : D' L2 D] insert at [2] and 3 moves cancel when you switch places of consecutive L2 and R2 in the solution to get L2 next to L


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## 2180161 (May 8, 2015)

My first FMC solve, It is REALLY bad. But i dont use premoves or anything
Scramble: D2 F2 L' D' B' U2 B' R L' F' D2 F' R2 B R2 U2 D2 L2 B' R2
F D' L' D R U2 R' U' L' U2 L F' L' U Rw' U2 Rw U BU' B' UR U2 R U B U2 B' U F R U' R' U2 B U B' U R U F' U' z' R UR'U R U'R'U'R'F RF' R-Perm
So, what was my first issue with my solve. BTW its about 68 HTM


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## TDM (May 8, 2015)

2180161 said:


> So, what was my first issue with my solve.


first issue: you used CFOP, which is one of the least efficient methods you can do.
second issue: your solution does not solve the cube, which is a bit of a problem, since solving the cube is the goal of the event.
third issue: you didn't even write out all the moves, which you have to do if you don't want a DNF


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## 2180161 (May 9, 2015)

Ok here is another one,and it is much better than my first, and I found it in about 30 minutes I think, I didnt check the time, Im just working on the solutions.
Scramble: D2 B D2 F' U2 F2 L2 F L2 R2 F U' L D L2 B R U2 R F

So... I dont know how rotations are counted, but I rotate a LOT.

y2 F' B2 D L B L D B' D2 //2x2

L' U D' L D L U' L'U L2 F' U' R' F2 L' R // F2L-1

y2 U' R U2 R' F' U' F // I dont know what that step would be called, solving 2/3 of my U side

U2 B' U R' U' B' R B U R U2 B // Solving the cube

Final Solution: y2 F' B2 D L B L D B' D2 L' U D' L D L U' L' U L2 F' U' R' F2 L' R y2 U' R U2 R' F' U' F U2 B' U R' U' B' R B U R U2 B 
Total Moves (HTM): 44 moves HTM MUCH BETTER THAN LAST TIME!


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## guysensei1 (May 9, 2015)

2180161 said:


> Ok here is another one,and it is much better than my first, and I found it in about 30 minutes I think, I didnt check the time, Im just working on the solutions.
> Scramble: D2 B D2 F' U2 F2 L2 F L2 R2 F U' L D L2 B R U2 R F
> 
> So... I dont know how rotations are counted, but I rotate a LOT.
> ...



Try not to use rotations. It makes your solution look weird.


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## Tim Major (May 9, 2015)

2nd scramble Canberra Autumn
http://i.imgur.com/yPoHuAu.jpg

Feliks got 25, Jay got 27. So many starts on normal and especially reverse scramble but I couldn't find any good continuations. The 36 mover was my safety solution, but I spent the last 30 mins trying other solutions instead of an insertion for it.

Feliks' solution:
B' L' U2 B2 U' L' F2 L' F' D L D' L B' L' B R' D2 R B D R D' R' B'


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## guysensei1 (May 9, 2015)

Tim Major said:


> 2nd scramble Canberra Autumn
> http://i.imgur.com/yPoHuAu.jpg
> 
> Feliks got 25, Jay got 27. So many starts on normal and especially reverse scramble but I couldn't find any good continuations. The 36 mover was my safety solution, but I spent the last 30 mins trying other solutions instead of an insertion for it.
> ...



Thats a really clever solution!


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## Tim Major (May 9, 2015)

guysensei1 said:


> Thats a really clever solution!



How? It's just obvious blocks, then messing around with different slotting to get a skip lol


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## TDM (May 9, 2015)

2180161 said:


> So... I dont know how rotations are counted, but I rotate a LOT.


Rotations count as 0 moves, but don't do them. Firstly, the person counting your moves might think they count as 1, and secondly, you're more likely to miss possible cancellations. And thirdly, you're more likely to DNF if you rotate the wrong way by accident.


> y2 F' B2 D L B L D B' D2 //2x2


y2 F' B' R B U B2 is fewer moves

The rest of your solution is weird  not sure what to say about it, other than practise more, use as much of the time as you can, and try to be more efficient in your blockbuilding. Efficiency is important.


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## Cubenovice (May 9, 2015)

Tim Major said:


> 2nd scramble Canberra Autumn
> http://i.imgur.com/yPoHuAu.jpg
> 
> Feliks got 25, Jay got 27. So many starts on normal and especially reverse scramble but I couldn't find any good continuations. The 36 mover was my safety solution, but I spent the last 30 mins trying other solutions instead of an insertion for it.
> ...



Long time since I cubed but what the heck:

Random blockbuilding
B' D2 L' D R' U2 B2 U'
L' F . L F' D F pseudo F2L 14
R' B' L B' L' B2 R D' fat anti-sune leaves 3 corners and undoing of pseudoness
F - undo pseudoness

at . insert F R2 F' L F R2 F' L' to cancel 4 moves

final solution:
B' D2 L' D R' U2 B2 U' L' F2 R2 F' L F R2 F2 D F R' B' L B' L' B2 R D' F = 27 HTM


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## 2180161 (May 11, 2015)

Scramble:F' U2 B2 L' B2 R F2 U2 B2 R' B2 R D' L' F L2 R' B' D' F' U'

U F' R D' F B R'U R D //2x2 (10/10)

U' F2 r U2 r U2 F' L F//F2L-1 (9/19) Already not optimal

U' F' U F U' R U R'// Random blockbuilding (8/27)

U R U' R' F B' U' R' B' R U F' U' B U R B// Solving the cube (17/44)
44 Total Moves, 
FINAL SOLUTION:U F' R D' F B R'U R D U' F2 r U2 r U2 F' L F U' F' U F U' R U R' U R U' R' F B' U' R' B' R U F' U' B U R B

Edit:
I lost the scramble but... I plugged it into cube512qtm, and just reversed the solve. So hopefully it is sufficient because I was going to speedsolve but said "ooh this look nice."
Scramble: R2 B2 D U2 F2 D2 U' L' F' U F U R' D B U' B' L F' R B
R B' L U L' U' D2 R' D R //2x2 (10/10)

x2 L2 F2 L U B' U B U' R U R' F //F2L -1 (12/22) definitely not optimal at this point

F' U B U B' U' B' R B R' U F U' R2 U' L' U' R' U' L U2 R'// F2L (22/44) 

F R D2 L' U F2 U' L D R2 D F' //LL (12/66) 

very bad compared to my previous two. 66 moves HTM
D:


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## Kit Clement (May 18, 2015)

Kind of want to cry. Found a 22 to L3C on the weekly this week, then found this 17 to L3C skeleton a few minutes after the hour.

http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/5408f1b1c5b5aad6362d440c8e901ad5.cube (spoilers, of course)


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## Jaysammey777 (May 25, 2015)

Had a miracle at this competition last weekend. 1st FMC in 6 months and my PB

Peach State 2015 Competition, 3x3x3: Fewest Moves Round 1:

Scramble: F2 R D2 L F2 R B2 U2 R D F D’ R’ D B2 L’ R’ B2 L’ B’

Solution:
2x2x2: L D2 F B’ R’ (5/5)
2x2x3: F2 L U’ L’ B’ U’ B (7/12)
Add premove: U
F2L - 1 pair: U’ (1/13)
Last pair: F’ U’ F2 U F’ L F L’ (8/21)
OLL: L F L’ F L F’ L’ F’ L’ U L U’ (12/33)
Undo Premove: U (1/34)

Cancelations: Last pair – OLL: F L’ L F = F2 -3 34-3 = 31
Undo premove U’ U = -2 31-2 = 29

Solution: L D2 F B’ R’ F2 L U’ L’ B’ U’ B U’ F’ U’ F2 U F’ L F2 L’ F L F’ L’ F’ L’ U L
29 HTM


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## G2013 (May 25, 2015)

Sub 30! Congratulations! I must do FMC again.... It has been a long time since my last solve ;/


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## AustinReed (May 30, 2015)

OK, I'm having issues with insertions. I know how to do comms. My issue is more of a hardware thing. I don't like wasting stickers on FMC, so what can I do that's comp legal that makes it easier to track the stickers that need to be switched? I tried writing down the cycle that I need to do on a piece of paper and tracking those through the solve, but it takes me way too long and it's frustrating. 

I assume that bringing in a "blank" cube with 3 "written in stickers" like this isn't comp legal.


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## EMI (May 30, 2015)

^ One could argue whether it's legal. It's definitely legal to use some sort of stickerless cube and a sheet of marked stickers (not cube stickers but little paper stickers that you can write on), though.


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## tseitsei (May 30, 2015)

AustinReed said:


> OK, I'm having issues with insertions. I know how to do comms. My issue is more of a hardware thing. I don't like wasting stickers on FMC, so what can I do that's comp legal that makes it easier to track the stickers that need to be switched? I tried writing down the cycle that I need to do on a piece of paper and tracking those through the solve, but it takes me way too long and it's frustrating.
> 
> I assume that bringing in a "blank" cube with 3 "written in stickers" like this isn't comp legal.


I just use small pieces of tape


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## Prakhar (May 30, 2015)

I use the sticky side of postits. Cheap and doesn't damage cube stickers


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## WayneMigraine (May 30, 2015)

Does anybody have any tips for finding insertions for last three corners cases where you have three twisted corners?
On this scramble: L2 U' B2 L2 B2 U2 F2 R2 U B2 L' U' B' U B2 L2 B' D' B2 D'
I've come up with the 23 move skeleton: U F2 R D' R2 B2 D B' L2 B' D2 L' D' L2 D B D L D' L' R D' R', but I'm not sure how to keep track/number the pieces for an insertion case where I need to do a 3-cycle to move the corners out of place and then permute them back into their positions with the correct orientation.
I used an insertion finder to come up with this solution, but am confused as to how it found it:
U F2 R D' R2 B2 D B' L2 B' D2 L' D' L2 D [@1] B D L D' L' R D' R'
Insert at @1: U B D2 B' U' B D2 B'
After the 1st insertion: U F2 R D' R2 B2 D B' L2 B' D2 L' D' L2 D U B D2 B' U' B D' L D' L' R D' [@2] R'
Insert at @2: D R' D' L' D R D' L
Fewest moves: 32, 7 moves cancelled
The final solution: U F2 R D' R2 B2 D B' L2 B' D2 L' D' L2 D U B D2 B' U' B D' L D' L' D' L' D R D' L R'
Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## cubizh (May 30, 2015)

WayneMigraine said:


> Does anybody have any tips for finding insertions for last three corners cases where you have three twisted corners?





FMC Tutorial said:


> For three corners, you can use U' B U' F U2 B2 D' R2 U D F' U' B (13 HTM). But this is usually not the best way.
> The classic way to solve 3 twisted corners is to use two inserted corner commutators. The first one only needs to cycle in any way the three twisted corners (or the two twisted corners + one random corner) and will usually lead to may cancellations. Then you only need to insert a simple corner commutator in the new skeleton you have got.
> To do this, you only need to draw an X or any other symbol on ...


If you are interested in what comes next or want to learn more, read the great FMC guide compiled by Sebastiano Tronto. Page 19.


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## 2180161 (Jun 8, 2015)

So, how does this inverse scramble stuff work? 
Like, do you invert the scramble, apply moves, and then apply the inverse of those moves to the original scramble?


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## Julian (Jun 8, 2015)

2180161 said:


> So, how does this inverse scramble stuff work?
> Like, do you invert the scramble, apply moves, and then apply the inverse of those moves to the original scramble?


Correct. Typically you'll apply the inverted scramble, come up with a solution, then invert the solution at the end so that it solves the original scramble.


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## mDiPalma (Jun 8, 2015)

2180161 said:


> So, how does this inverse scramble stuff work?
> Like, do you invert the scramble, apply moves, and then apply the inverse of those moves to the original scramble?



take a solved cube.

scramble it.

solve it.

it is now solved.

the sequence "scramble" + "solution" moved the cube from SOLVED to SOLVED.

that sequence is essentially a really long alg that does nothing to the cube.

just like the Reverse of the T-perm is also a T-perm, the reverse of the sequence above will also bring the cube from SOLVED to SOLVED.

you can also keep switching back and forth to the inverse and normal (NISS)


take a look at my solution on the weekly fmc:

scramble: B R' L' D2 F B2 U2 D2 B' R2 F B2 R2 U L' D2 F2 L U' R2
F2L-1: B’ D L’ U2 F R’ B R2 B’ R’ B

so the move sequence "scramble"+"F2L-1" leaves F2L-1 intact and just screws up the rest of the pieces. basically, it's a really long alg that does random CRAP to the pieces that are not in the F2L-1.

so if I do that WHOLE SEQUENCE backwards, i'll still have F2L-1. but i'll have DIFFERENT random crap everywhere else. that gives me 2x the chance to get lucky (that's what im up all night for anyway).

so then, imagine the scramble is (backwards of F2L-1) + (backwards of scramble) and just solve the cube from there. in the old weekly FMC, I do

(F' D' B L' B' D F2 U F' U') on the inverse to solve all but 3 corners.

so basically, that's just
scramble: (B' R B R2' B' R F' U2' L D' B) (R2' U L' F2' D2' L U' R2' B2' F' R2' B D2' U2' B2' F' D2' L R B')
ab3c: F' D' B L' B' D F2 U F' U'


so the total sequence is actually: 

 (B' R B R2' B' R F' U2' L D' B) (R2' U L' F2' D2' L U' R2' B2' F' R2' B D2' U2' B2' F' D2' L R B') (F' D' B L' B' D F2 U F' U')

so that whole long thing...is actually just the SAME thing as a 3 corner cycle.

if we reverse the whole thing, and shift the scramble to the left, we have:

B R' L' D2 F B2 U2 D2 B' R2 F B2 R2 U L' D2 F2 L U' R2 B’ D L’ U2 F R’ B R2 B’ R’ B U F U' F2 D' B L B' D F

that whole thing is still basically just a 3-corner cycle...just different corners.

so now insert an insertion and solve. i got lucky and found @ = [B L’ B’, R2] // insertion (4)

and put it right between the underlined B and R2 in the giant thing above.


and thats how to do it


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## WayneMigraine (Jun 8, 2015)

mDiPalma said:


> take a solved cube.
> 
> scramble it.
> 
> ...



This is the most concise and useful explanation of NISS I've seen! Thank you for taking the time to write it out


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## irontwig (Jun 8, 2015)

WayneMigraine said:


> This is the most concise and useful explanation of NISS I've seen! Thank you for taking the time to write it out



You might want to look up the word "concise".


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## WayneMigraine (Jun 8, 2015)

irontwig said:


> You might want to look up the word "concise".



Thanks for the tip, fam.


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## 2180161 (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks for the explanation. However, when I apply this knowledge to a solve, it doesn't accomplish the same thing. Say I have a scramble:R U' R2 F2 R2 F2 D2 L2 D' R2 B2 U2 L' U' B U2 L' B2 R U2 F'
and I apply the moves :U' R' L' D' To solve a 2x2x1 block.
However, on the inverse scramble, if I apply the inverse of that, or D L R U, It doesnt accomplish the same thing. Now, the same thing happens on the inverse scramble. If on the inverse scramble I apply the moves: L' D' F' U L' in order to solve a 2x2x1, and apply the inverse of that, or L D F U' L, to the normal scramble, it doesn't accomplish the same thing. Why is this?
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding?


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## h2f (Jun 9, 2015)

2180161 said:


> Thanks for the explanation. However, when I apply this knowledge to a solve, it doesn't accomplish the same thing. Say I have a scramble:R U' R2 F2 R2 F2 D2 L2 D' R2 B2 U2 L' U' B U2 L' B2 R U2 F'
> and I apply the moves :U' R' L' D' To solve a 2x2x1 block.
> However, on the inverse scramble, if I apply the inverse of that, or D L R U, It doesnt accomplish the same thing. Now, the same thing happens on the inverse scramble. If on the inverse scramble I apply the moves: L' D' F' U L' in order to solve a 2x2x1, and apply the inverse of that, or L D F U' L, to the normal scramble, it doesn't accomplish the same thing. Why is this?
> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding?



The moves DLRU (the inverse of the block) you should do as premoves of the inverse scramble. This means: DLRU + inverse of the scramble. After scrambling you should get your first block. And if you create a block on the inverse of the scramble, you inverse these moves (LDFU'L) and do them before making original scramble. After finding the solution you add these moves to the solution in the end of the sequences. Correct me if I am wrong. I am still learing NISS.


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## 2180161 (Jun 9, 2015)

I noticed that about 30 minutes after his last post, MiDipalma was banned...

Anyway, an attempt to do an FMC solve

Scramble:L2 F2 R2 U B2 F2 L2 D2 U F2 D2 R D B' R' D2 U F R D2 U'

F' U D2 F//2x2 (4/4)

L' B' D L' D' U2 R2 U' L2 R' U2 R L' U B' U2 B L U' R B' R' B U'// F2L-1 (24/28)

B L B' U F2 D U2 L F' L' D' U2 F2//THE CUBE (12/40)

Final Solution:
F' U D2 F L' B' D L' D' U2 R2 U' L2 R' U2 R L' U B' U2 B L U' R B' R' B U' B L B' U F2 D U2 L F' L' D' U2 F2


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## adimare (Jun 10, 2015)

Learning FMC, it's awesome.
Got my first sub-30 trying last week's weekly comp scramble:

Scramble: U' D2 L2 B2 R' F2 U2 D2 R' L2 D B L' F R' U' L' D' B' F
F B @ D R2 B' R // 2x2x2
L' R F' R' * // 2x2x3
{F L' U L U' L2} // F2L-1 on inverse
{D F D'} // All but 5 corners on inverse
@: B' R F' R' B R F R'
*: R U' R' D R U R' D'

// Final solution
F R F' R' B R F R' D R2 B' R2 L' F' U' R' D R U R' F' D' L2 U L' U' L F' (28)

It sort of doesn't count because I used Insertion Finder for the corner 5-cycle (hadn't learned 5-cycles properly yet so I used it to figure out what was going on, that thing finds crazy good cancellations). Participated in this week's FMC competition for the first time (found a 6 move 3-cycle insertion on my own for that one, no cheating )


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## ryanj92 (Jun 12, 2015)

i finished my first FMC solve using NISS today!



Spoiler: solve



Scramble: U2 R2 B' L' F2 R' L2 B2 R F' R F' L B' R' D' R F B2 L' F' D2 U' F' D

D R' L' U2 L' // 2x2x2

switch to inverse scramble (with premoves L U2 L R D')
F' R2 F2 R' // pseudo 2x2x3

switch back to regular scramble (with premoves R F2 R2 F)
D R' L' U2 L' R // 2x2x3

realised i could edit this (added F' for EO, R and L' are interchangeable) to get
D R' L' U2 R F' L' // 2x2x3 + some EO

U2 L' U L F' U' F leaves 2+2 edges and three corners

ended up just doing U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F2 U' to solve the edges because i couldn't find an obvious place to insert the 4-cycle

leaves me with the skeleton (for scramble with premoves R F2 R2 F)
D R' L' U2 R F' L' U2 L' U L F' U' F U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F2 U'

inserted [F R2 F', L'] at the beginning (because i'm bad at finding insertions) to get 29 moves

add premoves R F2 R2 F at the end to get the final solution

F R2 F' L' F R2 F' L D R' L' U2 R F' L' U2 L' U L F' U' F U' F2 U2 F2 U2 F2 U' R F2 R2 F
33 moves.

Looked for corner insertion with IF, could only cancel 1 move apparently... It found a 26 when i asked it to insert the 2+2 edge cycle also, but I don't think I would have ever found that


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## 2180161 (Jun 12, 2015)

Scramble: D' R2 L2 F2 L2 U2 L2 D L2 U2 B2 L' F' R2 U' L F D U2 B2 R2

D2 F' R F //2x2 (4/4)

R' U' B U R L D' L B L2 B2//2x2x3 (9/13)

L2 D L2 F L F' L //F2L-1 (7/20)

z2 F' U F R U' R' U F' U2 F' U F// I dont know the name of this step in heise  (12/32)

U2 L' D2 L U2 L' D2 L// corner cycle (8/40)

Final Solution: D2 F' R F R' U' B U R L D' L B L2 B2 L2 D L2 F L F' L z2 F' U F R U' R' U F' U2 F U F' U F U2 L' D2 L U2 L' D2 L
40 Moves HTM. Almost sub-40!


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## Marcel P (Jun 14, 2015)

That's what a move-cancelling insertion looks like... My 22 Move Solution on the 3rd scramble at Velbert Open 2015

Scramble: D F' L2 D L F' B2 L' F2 R B' U L2 F2 D2 L2 D F2 B2 U2

On Inverse:
L' D' R' F U D' $ B' D2 (8/8) - 2x2x3 except 1 Corner
U F' U (3/11) - F2L-1 except 1 Corner
R' F % R F' (4/15) - all but 3 Corners and 3 Edges

$ = U' D L' U L U D' B' U' B (10-8/17) - Edges, 8-move cancellation!
% = F R B2 R' F' R B2 R' (8-3/22) - Corners

Solution: F B2 R' F R B2 R' F2 R U' F D2 B D U' L' U' L F' R D L (22 Moves)


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## Kit Clement (Jun 15, 2015)

My winning 30.67 mean from Indiana 2015:



Spoiler: Solve 1: L2 U F' U D2 F2 R U2 L F2 D R2 U' L2 U' R2 U R2 L2 U2



N: D F2 L \\Two 1x2x2s (3/3)
I: L F2 L' B2 \\2x2x3 (4/7)
N: R2 B' R B R2 U2 \\F2L-1 (6/13)
B' R' B R U R2 U' R2 \\L4C (8/21)

Skel: D F2 L R2 B' R B R2 U2 B' R' B (2) R U R2 U' R2 B2 (1) L F2 L' (21)

(1): B2 L F' L' B2 L F L' (cancels 5)
(2): D R' U' R D' R' U R (cancels 1)

Final: D F2 L R2 B' R B R2 U2 B' R' B D R' U' R D' R' U R2 U R2 U' R2 L F' L' B2 L F' L' (31)


Comments: I found this skeleton in about 10 minutes, and decided to save it for about 25 minutes left to go. Unfortunately, there wasn't much else that I could find, so I did start looking for insertions around that mark. I put a lot of time into the first insertion, which paid off with the 5 move cancellation. Looking through this far into the skeleton took a lot of time though, and I was a bit rushed on the resulting L3C. As a result, I was worried that I might have missed a second insertion that cancelled 2 moves, but insertion finder told me otherwise. 



Spoiler: Solve 2: R2 F2 R2 D2 L2 D F2 D' R2 D R' B2 U F' R2 B' R' D' U



I: R D \\1x2x2 (2/2)
N: R' D2 R \\2x2x2 (3/5)
F2 L F' \\2x2x3 (3/8)
I: U2 L F' L2 F L2 U' \\F2L-1 (7/15)
B' U B U' L' U' L' U L U' L U L2 \\L3C (13/28)

Skel: R' D2 R F2 L F' L2 U' L' U L' U' L U L U B' U' B U L2 F' L2 F (1) L' U2 D' R' 

(1): D R2 D' L' D R2 D' L (cancels 3)

Final: R' D2 R F2 L F' L2 U' L' U L' U' L U L U B' U' B U L2 F' L2 F D R2 D' L' D R2 U2 D2 R' (33)


Comments: 9 one-move pairs on both the scrambles, and I thought they were all crap. This scramble turned out to be the hardest for everyone, and I think it had a lot to do with the fact that there were a plethora of mediocre starts that people were prone to spending too much time looking at. I was "lucky" enough to find a safety L3C skeleton, which bought me more time to look for something better rather than start inserting. Ended up a little lucky with the optimal insertions on this one, cancelling 3 on an L3C.



Spoiler: Solve 3: B L2 B L2 B L2 F2 L2 U2 B' U2 L D' U' B' D' U2 R B2 R2



N: R' \\pair (1/1)
I: U' L' B' D' B2 \\2x2x2 (5/6)
F2 L2 F' L' F' \\2x2x3 (5/11)
L2 U L' U2 \\F2L-1 (4/15)
(U') F U F2 L' F L' \\L4C (6/21)

Skel: R' L (1) F' L F2 U' F' U' L U' L2 (2) F L F L2 F2 B2 D B L U

(1): L B L' F' L B' L' F (cancels 5)
(2): L' B L F L' B' L F' (cancels 4)

Final: R' L2 B L' F' L B' F2 U' F' U' L U' L B L F L' B' L2 F L2 F2 B2 D B L U (28)


Comments: If the last skeleton had lucky insertions, then this skeleton won the lottery. It wasn't going well for a majority of the time, though. I spent the first 8 minutes inspecting the 6 one-move pairs on normal, and at that time, nature called, and I had to make a restroom run. 30-45 seconds later, I came back to find there were no pairs at all on inverse, which was very strange in contrast to the normal scramble. None of the pairs on normal looked any good, so I started seeing if those pairs were any better after switching to inverse. By 30 minutes, I had several meh starts, but no skeletons. I happened to stumble across this one when I decided to go back to this 2x2x2, saw the pair made with F2, and decided to roll with it. That led to this skeleton with about 20 minutes to go, which is a bit of a time crunch for me doing two insertions. Luckily enough, I cancelled 5 only two moves into the skeleton, and that made up a ton of time for me, giving me enough time to find the next insertion that cancelled 4.


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## ryanj92 (Jun 15, 2015)

i did my first one hour NISS attempt yesterday!



Spoiler: solve



Scramble: R2 L2 F' L D2 B' R' F2 L U2 B F' U' R2 D L' F2 B' U F2

On inverse:
F' D B' D R2 U R U' F D' // 2x2x3 (10/10)
U2 L' U2 L2 U2 L2 // F2L - 1 corner (6/16)
R U B U' B' R' // edges (6/22)

leaves 5 corners in one cycle, so 2 insertions needed

Skeleton (on inverse):
F' D B' D R2 U R U' F D' U2 (1) L' U2 L2 U2 L2 R U B U' B' R'

(1) - insert (2) B R2 B' L' B R2 B' L to cancel 2 moves (8-2/28)
(2) - insert L' F' L B2 L' F L B2 to cancel 1 move (8-1/35)

Solution on inverse: F' D B' D R2 U R U' F D' U2 L' F' L B2 L' F L B' R2 B' L' B R2 B' U2 L2 U2 L2 R U B U' B' R' (35)
Invert to get: R B U B' U' R' L2 U2 L2 U2 B R2 B' L B R2 B L' F' L B2 L' F L U2 D F' U R' U' R2 D' B D' F (35)

I thought the insertions weren't very good but it turns out I was only 2 moves from optimal, so I'm pretty pleased with that 
2nd best 1 hour attempt ever, and my best was a 34 move CFOP hack 


question: when finding insertions, do you guys tend to start from the beginning, or the end of your solution? i've been starting from the beginning, but i've realised after a couple of attempts that i can be prone to making mistakes when searching through the skeleton... i feel like if i started from the back, it'd be a lot more obvious if i made a wrong move (and it's a lot easier to check that) and wondered if anybody else did this


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## EMI (Jun 15, 2015)

^ I start from the back, it seems more logical. You have to put the insertion stickers on anyway, and you can easily check if you did a mistake by just performing the moves in the correct order again at the end.


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## Kit Clement (Jun 15, 2015)

I make more errors working from the back myself, just because having to invert moves throws me off more. 

If the skeleton is L4C, I usually look at the opportunities to cancel a ton of moves first, like in between L F L' F' or something, and if there's nothing good, I will re scan all the other points I did not check.


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## brandbest1 (Jun 16, 2015)

FMC advice please! Thanks!
Scramble: R D2 B2 F2 R F2 D2 R' U2 R' B' R D' B2 L R2 D F' R2 D2



Spoiler



On the normal:
F B' L' F' D' F2 D' R D // Pseudo 2x2x3

On the inverse:
D2 U B2 U B' // F2L-1

On the normal: (premove B U' B2 U' D2)
L' B L B' // F2L
B' U F U' B U F' U2 // All but 3 edges
F R B' R' F' B U B U' B' // last 3 edges (in case you were wondering I checked insertion finder afterwards and it still gave me 32 moves.)

Final solution:
F B' L' F' D' F2 D' R D L' B L B2 U F U' B U F' U2 F R B' R' F' B U B U2 B2 U' D2 (32 moves)


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## not_kevin (Jun 17, 2015)

brandbest1 said:


> FMC advice please! Thanks!
> Scramble: R D2 B2 F2 R F2 D2 R' U2 R' B' R D' B2 L R2 D F' R2 D2
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Notice that after you insert the F2L pair, instead of jumping to solving the corners right then, you can just do a U', which leaves 3 corners (along with the 3 edges you had, which unfortunately are still only solvable in 7 optimal). In this case, your skeleton is:
F B' L' F' D' F2 D' R D L' B L B' *U'* (*) B U' B2 U' D2 (19 moves)

Throwing in (*): U' F' U B U' F U B' cancels 5 moves, making the overall a 29


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## brandbest1 (Jun 17, 2015)

not_kevin said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is it conventional to simply do two insertions once the next step is OLL (one corner, one edge)?


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## 2180161 (Jun 17, 2015)

scramble: D' R2 L2 F2 U2 L2 D L2 U2 B2 L' F' R2 U' L F D U2 B2 R2

On inverse, with pre-moves "F' R B' F' U F' U' F' L": z2 x' F' L F2 L' F2 U F U2

So, how would I get the original scramble to have F2L-1 with those moves? Do I need an insertion somewhere?


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## Brest (Jun 17, 2015)

2180161 said:


> scramble: D' R2 L2 F2 U2 L2 D L2 U2 B2 L' F' R2 U' L F D U2 B2 R2
> 
> On inverse, with pre-moves "F' R B' F' U F' U' F' L": z2 x' F' L F2 L' F2 U F U2
> 
> So, how would I get the original scramble to have F2L-1 with those moves? Do I need an insertion somewhere?



Remove the rotations.

B2 D' B' D2 R D2 R' D
D' R2 L2 F2 U2 L2 D L2 U2 B2 L' F' R2 U' L F D U2 B2 R2
L' F U F U' F B R' F


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## not_kevin (Jun 17, 2015)

brandbest1 said:


> Is it conventional to simply do two insertions once the next step is OLL (one corner, one edge)?



I don't know so much about convention, because my personal conventions are "aah what is an edge insertion", but in the particular case you had, where you ended up solving OLL with a commutator, it made sense to me to try to find an insertion for them instead - that being said, doing Niklas there is actually not too bad, since it cancels 2.

I know that Ranzha and Jay McNeill like 3c3e endings a lot  They've done some voodoo magic with them before.


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## PenguinsDontFly (Jun 19, 2015)

first ever FMC attemp. ridiculous scramble. terrible solution. someone get sub 20 on this plz

D F2 R U2 L U2 F' U B D2 F R2 F R2 B' U2 R2 D2 R2

R U F' U L2 F D' L R' D R B' L' F L B
F' L' F U' F R' F R F' R' F2 R F' 
U L' F2 L U' L' U F2 U' L


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## brandbest1 (Jun 21, 2015)

Scrambles from Fantabulous Maryland 2015, advice would be appreciated! (My horrendous solutions)



Spoiler: Scramble 1: F L' U F2 L2 B' L F2 L D' B' U2 D2 F2 B2 R L2 D2 B2 U2



Normal:
L' U' R2 F2 B' U' // 2x2x2
B' L2 B2 D2 B' D // 2x2x3
L2 D F D' L F L2 // pseudo F2L-1
F' D * F2 D' F2 D F' D' L ^ // All but 3 corners and 3 edges

Insert at *: [D' ; L' U L]
Insert at ^: L' U' R U L R' F' R' F R

Final solution: L' U' R2 F2 B' U' B' L2 B2 D2 B' D L2 D F D' L F L2 F' L' U L D L' U' L F2 D' F2 D F' D' U' R U L R' F' R' F R (42)





Spoiler: Scramble 2: L' F2 L B2 R D2 L' R2 U2 R2 D F' R2 D R D L U R' B



Normal: 
B' R' ^ D' L' // 2x2x2
R' B' U B2 U * B' // wait i forgot what I was trying to do here can someone help

Inverse:
B' R U B' U2 B2 // pseudo 2x2x3
U' R U2 R U' R' B' // all but 3 edges and 3 corners

Insert at *: [R2 ; B L B']
Insert at ^: R2 L2 F R2 F' L2 R2 B R2 B'

Final Solution: B' R L2 F R2 F' L2 R2 B R2 B' D' L' R' B' U' B2 U R2 B L B' R2 B L' B' R U R' U2 R' U B2 U2 B U' R' B (38)





Spoiler: Scramble 3: B L2 D2 F' L2 U2 B F2 U2 L B' U2 L D B' R' F L U' F2



Normal:
F R L' * F2 // 2x2x2
D R' D' B D B2 // pseudo 2x2x3

Inverse:
B2 R B' D2 // F2L-2
R' B R' B' R2 F' R F // F2L-1
R' B R2 B' D' R D R // tripod
B' D B D' // all but 3 edges

Insert at *: L R' F' L' F L' R U' L U

Final Solution: L' F L' R U' L U F2 D R' D' B D B2 D B' D' B R' D' R' D B R2 B' R F' R' F R2 B R B' R D2 B R' B2 (38)



Also let me know if there are typos!


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## TeddyKGB (Jun 22, 2015)

My official 24 from Fantabulous Michigan Competition 

Scramble - R2 B2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 B2 D' F U2 L' U2 L' U B' D2 B2 R F 


Spoiler



F' R // 2x2x1
switch to inverse 
F' D F' D' // 2x2x1 + 3x2x1
B U' F2 B2 // Pseudo F2L -1
B D' B' // Pseudo F2L
B D R' B R B' D' B' D2 F2 // L3C

Skeleton - F' R @ F2 D2 B D B R' B' R B F2 U B' D F D' F 

Insert at @: R2 F' L' F R2 F' L F (2 moves cancel)

Solution - F' R' F' L' F R2 F' L F' D2 B D B R' B' R B F2 U B' D F D' F


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## G2013 (Jun 22, 2015)

Help, I forgot NISS

Scramble: U' B' U' F2 L' U' R L F' U' R2 F' U2 B R2 F R2 B L2 U2 D2
Inverse: D2 U2 L2 B' R2 F' R2 B' U2 F R2 U F L' R' U L F2 U B U

Premoves: R' B' (F')

I did this on normal scramble: 

R' B' L2 B L2 B' //2x2
F' D' R D2 R2 //2x2x3

Premoves R' B' for that,

then I went to the inverse scramble, so I did all this:

R' B' L2 B L2 B' //2x2
F' D' R D2 R2 //2x2x3

backwards, then I did the inverse scramble, then I did B R (premoves backwards),

I did this on the inverse:

(L D L' F2) //F2L-1

and I added premove F'...

how do I continue?????? If I want to go back, where do I put the premoves, the skeleton, how to I perform those parts, what do I do?

Thank you for your help


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## ryanj92 (Jun 22, 2015)

G2013 said:


> Help, I forgot NISS
> 
> Scramble: U' B' U' F2 L' U' R L F' U' R2 F' U2 B R2 F R2 B L2 U2 D2
> Inverse: D2 U2 L2 B' R2 F' R2 B' U2 F R2 U F L' R' U L F2 U B U
> ...



assuming you added the extra premove right at the beginning, you have a chain which is the following:

F' (2x2x3 moves)' (scramble)' (B R) (L D L' F2)

so now to continue on the regular scramble you have to invert the whole thing, to get

F2 L D' L' R' B' (scramble) (2x2x3 moves) F

if you put the extra premove somewhere else, then you follow a similar process, just write down your steps so far and invert the lot


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## G2013 (Jun 23, 2015)

Thanks Ryan 

I didn't add the F' anywhere xD I just didn't know where to add it, lol

Thanks again



Spoiler: Weekly Comp



2nd solve of the year, PB, 28 moves, found in less than 20 minutes:

Scramble: R2 F U2 B D2 F B' R D L R2 D2 L U2 B' R' F2 L2 B2 R

Skeleton:
R' B2 - Premoves

D R U2 B2 //2x2 -> Premove B2
D' R' F' D R' //2x2x3 -> Premove R'
F D2 F2 D2 F' D' F D F' //F2L
F' D' R D F D' F' R' F //LL

Final solve: D R U2 B2 D' R' F' D R' F D2 F2 D2 F' D' F D F2 D' R D F D' F' R' F R' B2 (28 HTM)

I just can't believe it. I counted the moves over and over to see if I was mis-counting... It must be 38, I thought... but it's not!!!!!


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## adimare (Jun 23, 2015)

G2013 said:


> snip



Hmmm not cool


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## adimare (Jun 25, 2015)

Are there any unwritten rules regarding the weekly FMC competition? From the comments in the solutions it's evident that many solvers are using WCA time limits to do their solves, whereas for this week's scramble, for instance, I found the skeleton on Sunday, read up on 5 corner cycle insertions on Monday and applied it, then decided to change the skeleton yesterday and do all but 3 corners using 11 moves instead of all but 5 corners in 5 moves, and I just finished finding a good insertion for the 3 cycle today. I also use alg.cubing.net heavily while finding my solutions, I only use a physical cube to find 3-cycle insertions.

So I guess my question boils down to, is all of that ok?


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## ch_ts (Jun 25, 2015)

Yes, that's OK (if you're talking about this one: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/ ). It's meant to be an informal competition that people can use for whatever purpose they want: trying new techniques, learning from other people's solutions, training for competitions, whatever you want to use it for, while having a little friendly competition. If you feel that you need some extra time for something, for example learning insertions, you can use extra time. If you want to train for a competition setting, you can do that too and restrict yourself to an hour. Just use it for whatever you need from it, and have fun while doing it!


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## TeddyKGB (Jul 1, 2015)

I got a 20 move PB. My last 3 attempts were 23, 29, and 20 for a 24 mean. 

L2 B' L2 U2 R2 B' D2 F' L2 B' L2 U F U2 L' B R2 B2 F2 R' 



Spoiler



On inverse 
D2 F L' F2 // 2x2x2
B2 R2 D' // Pseudo F2L -1
Switch to normal
R // F2L -1
L B2 L' B2 L B' L' // 3C3E
L' D2 R D R' D2 L D' // Finish

Solution - R L B2 L' B2 L B' L2 D2 R D R' D2 L R2 B2 F2 L F' D2 (20)


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## 2180161 (Jul 2, 2015)

TeddyKGB said:


> I got a 20 move PB. My last 3 attempts were 23, 29, and 20 for a 24 mean.
> 
> L2 B' L2 U2 R2 B' D2 F' L2 B' L2 U F U2 L' B R2 B2 F2 R'
> 
> ...



Nice! was that optimal?

EDIT: no it was not optimal, optimal was 17 HTM


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## spyr0th3dr4g0n (Jul 5, 2015)

*Irish Championship 2015 FMC Scramble*

*Scramble: * R L2 U2 D L' U R F D F' U F2 D L2 D' B2 L2 D' R2 U2

*My Attempt:*



Spoiler: option



U' R' U' R' D R D' F' D2 F2 //2x2x2 with unaligned block
B' U B' F' U F //XXXCross
U' R B' R' B U //tripod done/6 pieces left? Dunno what to call it
U (cancels with previous U into U2) R' U R //3 edge cycle
R2 *cancels for just a R') F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R' //3 corner alg, standard one too
33 total



Can anyone show me how to find an insertion for the last 3 corners?


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## Kit Clement (Jul 5, 2015)

spyr0th3dr4g0n said:


> *Scramble: * R L2 U2 D L' U R F D F' U F2 D L2 D' B2 L2 D' R2 U2
> 
> *My Attempt:*
> 
> ...



Write out your skeleton to 3 corners: U' R' U' R' D R D' F' D2 F2 B' U B' F' * U F U' R B' R' B U2 R' U' R

Now, perform the scramble and your skeleton to get the three corners. Put stickers on the 3 corners to mark where the three pieces need to go. Solve up and re-scramble. Now, one move at a time, examine 8 move commutators to see how you can cancel moves best. At the star above, I found:

F' U B2 U' F U B2 U'

This cancels 3 for a 30 move solution. Just checked with IF (good tool for practicing insertions), and this is indeed optimal for the skeleton: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/6a810f229488a5e3d61c5a462a266788.cube


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## spyr0th3dr4g0n (Jul 5, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Write out your skeleton to 3 corners: U' R' U' R' D R D' F' D2 F2 B' U B' F' * U F U' R B' R' B U2 R' U' R
> 
> Now, perform the scramble and your skeleton to get the three corners. Put stickers on the 3 corners to mark where the three pieces need to go. Solve up and re-scramble. Now, one move at a time, examine 8 move commutators to see how you can cancel moves best. At the star above, I found:
> 
> ...



What do you look for generally when looking for 8 move commutators?

How would you indicate which direct the cycle should be in?

Thanks for the reply


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## Kit Clement (Jul 5, 2015)

spyr0th3dr4g0n said:


> What do you look for generally when looking for 8 move commutators?
> 
> How would you indicate which direct the cycle should be in?
> 
> Thanks for the reply



I usually mark for L3C 1-2-3 such that 1 needs to go to 2, 2 needs to go to 3, and 3 needs to go to 1. When I'm searching for comms, I look for one move that will replace one sticker with another, this can act as the interchange move. Then, I check for 3 move inserts that can put the third sticker (needs to be in in opposite layer) into one the place of one of the two interchange stickers. Whether you do the insert or the interchange first depends on the numbers -- if the insert will do the correct replacement (e.g. 2 replacing 3) then you do the insert, interchange, inverse of insert, inverse of interchange. Otherwise, you do the opposite.

Hope this helps!


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## Julian (Jul 6, 2015)

Last 3 FMC: 26, 25, 28 = 26.33 
Moves in brackets are done on the inverse.



Spoiler: 26



L B2 D2 R U2 F2 L2 F2 R' F2 L F R F' U2 R D' F L' D U'

(B2 R B' D2) // 2x2x2 + 2 pairs
R2 F2 // 2x2x3 + pair
B U' B' (U) // F2L-1
R F' U F U' R U' R2 U R // L3C

R2 F2
B U' B'
R F' U F U' R U' R2 U R
U' D2 . B R' B2

Insert U' F U B' U' F' U B at . cancelling 2 moves.





Spoiler: 25



R2 D' L2 R2 U F2 L2 U' F2 U' B2 R' F U' L2 D B F2 R2 U'

(B') // pair
R2 F B2 D L D // 2x2x3
F' U' // pseudo F2L-1
D R D' (F) // F2L
D R2 D' R' D R' D' R' // L3E

R2 F B2 D L D
F' U' . D R' D' R' D R' D' R'
F' B

Insert U F' U' B' F R F R' B F' at . cancelling 3 moves.

Insertion Finder says 22 was possible :/ I don't know how I would have seen that though.





Spoiler: 28



L2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D2 L2 U' B2 F2 U B D' U F L2 F' D' U2 R' F2

F U2 R B L' F2 // 2x2x2
B' R U R2 // 2x2x3
B' U' B // F2L-1
U B U B' // F2L
F R2 B' R' B R' F' U // L3C

F U2 R B L' F2
B' R U R2
B' U' B
U B U F .
B' R2 B' R' B R' F' U

Insert F' U' B2 U F U' B2 U at . cancelling 5 moves.


Also, I tried out the so-called "hardest scramble", and got a (very lucky) 31 
As you can tell by the first line, the attempt didn't start out very seriously 



Spoiler: 31



F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

B R F U L B .. D // cross + pair
U2 B L' U' L // xcross + pair
B2 R . U2 R' U R B R' // F2L-1 + free pair
U B' U' B U' // 2 flipped edges

Insert R' B2 R L' D2 L at . cancelling 6 moves 
Insert B' L' B L F' B D' B' D F at .. cancelling 4 moves.

Solution: B R F U B L F' B D' B' D F D U2 B L' U' R D2 L U2 R' U R B R' U B' U' B U' (31)


A lot of fewest moves...


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## mycube (Jul 7, 2015)

I just thought it could be interesting for some people to see my 22 move solution from Franconia Open 2015  It's a really cool scramble!

Scramble:
F' L2 U2 L B R2 F2 U L2 F2 D2 F' D2 B U2 B2 L2 U2
inverse scramble: U2 L2 B2 U2 B' D2 F D2 F2 L2 U' F2 R2 B' L' U2 L2 F

Solve on inverse:
F2 B2 R' (*) D' F2 U2 - 2x2x2 and many pairs
now you could get a 2x2x3 with two moves: B' R', but I was more interested in this one:
D' R2 D2 B D B2 - F2L-1 
R2 D R D' - Finish to 3 corners in 16 moves

insert at (*): L U L' D' L U' L' D to get a 22 move solution. Too bad that there were only an insertion with 2 move cancellation

inverse solution: F2 B2 R' L U L' D' L U' L' F2 U2 D' R2 D2 B D B2 R2 D R D'

Maybe it was a bit lucky, but it was pretty cool  found in about 10 minutes, I spend 15 more minutes but after I was not able to find anything else I took this solution


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## TDM (Jul 7, 2015)

mycube said:


> I just thought it could be interesting for some people to see my 22 move solution from Franconia Open 2015  It's a really cool scramble!


Nice solution, congrats on the official PB.

There are now 7 Germans in the top 4.


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## 2180161 (Jul 8, 2015)

Scramble: B' R D' R2 D2 B D' U L' B' L R2 B U' R B U' 

Someone please get sub 25. Optimal is 17.


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## Mark Boyanowski (Jul 9, 2015)

2180161 said:


> Scramble: B' R D' R2 D2 B D' U L' B' L R2 B U' R B U'
> 
> Someone please get sub 25. Optimal is 17.



B2 R2 U2 B R2 B' // 2x2x3
B U' B2 R B // EO, 2 moves cancel
U2 R2 // L5C
Skeleton:
B2 R2 U2 B R2 U' B2 R B @ U2 R2
@ = B U F U' B' # U F' U'
# = B D2 B' U B D2 B' U'
Solution(21):
B2 R2 U2 B R2 U' B2 R B2 U F U' D2 B' U B D2 B' F' U R2

I sort of lucked into the skeleton in the first 15 mins or so, then tried absolutely every combination of insertions I had time for before going with this. I used insertion finder afterwards, and these are apparently optimal. Way too lucky to consider my PB, I average around low 30s!


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## Torch (Jul 10, 2015)

Here's my FMC solution from the Speedsolving weekly competition. Any tips or ideas?



Spoiler



Scramble: U2 R2 B2 L2 F' R2 B D2 U2 B D2 U' B' R' U' F' U2 B U L' 

F D2 L U' F//2x2x2
D2 R' B2//Pseudo 2x2x3
R2 B R2 *B'*//Pseudo F2L minus 1
*B'* D2 B R D R' D'//L5C
R' B'//correct pseudoblocks

Skeleton: F D2 L U' F D2 R' B2 R2 B R2 B2 D2 B R D R' [1] D' R' B' [2]
[1]: F D' B2 D F' D' B2 D
[2]: B U F U' B U F' U' B2

Solution: F D2 L U' F D2 R' B2 R2 B R2 B2 D2 B R D R' F D' B2 D F' D' B2 R' U F U' B U F' U' B2 (32)


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## Torch (Jul 12, 2015)

Sorry to double post, but I just found a pretty interesting FMC solution that I thought was pretty cool (and somewhat lucky). Check it out!

Scramble: L2 U2 L F2 L' F2 L U2 L' U2 L F L2 F R2 F' U' L B R2 

R2 U'//2x2x1
switch to inverse
B D' F L'//Pseudo 2x2x3
D' F D' F'//Another 2x2x1 block
D2 F' L' F2 *L*//Another 2x2x1 block 
*L* D' L' D'//3e3c
L'//Correct pseudo

Skeleton: R2 U' L D L [1] D L2 F2 L F D2 F D F' D L [2] F' D B'

[1]: L D' R' D L' D' R D
[2]: L R' D2 L' R F2

Solution: R2 U' L D L2 D' R' D L' D' R D2 L2 F2 L F D2 F D F' D L2 R' D2 L' R F D B' (29)


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## spyr0th3dr4g0n (Jul 12, 2015)

Torch said:


> Here's my FMC solution from the Speedsolving weekly competition. Any tips or ideas?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My attempt if you are interested



Spoiler



scramble: U2 R2 B2 L2 F' R2 B D2 U2 B D2 U' B' R' U' F' U2 B U L' 

F D2 L U' R' F //found a similar start, but I decided to preserve the line, and it worked out
R D R2 D2 //potentially 2 3 corner cycles and 1 edge cycle, but finding insertions for this wouldn't be worth the 2/3 moves it would possibly save, unless really major cancellations 
B2 D B2 D' B' R' B2 R B'
[1] bwo -> byr -> boy //nowhere to cancel really, so put it at the end
[2] rgw -> ryg -> boy 
34 moves without insertions

F D2 L U' R' F
R D R2 D2 
B2 D B2 D' B' R' B2 R B' [1]
[1] B2 R F R' B2 R F' R' 

so far: F D2 L U' R' F R D R2 D2 B2 D B2 D' B' R' B2 R [2] B R F R' B2 R F' R' 
[2] rgw -> ryg -> boy
R' F' R B R' F R B'


final:
F D2 L U' R' F R D R2 D2 B2 D B2 D' B' R' B2 (R R') F' R B R' F (R (B' B) R) F R' B2 R F' R' 
F D2 L U' R' F R D R2 D2 B2 D B2 D' B' R' B2 F' R B R' F R2 F R' B2 R F' R'
29 moves 

Finding those insertions took a long time, but I'm happy that its optimum for them, I checked


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## TheDubDubJr (Jul 12, 2015)

Finally got a good Official FMC Mean that I am happy about.

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1035&cat=15&rnd=1



Spoiler: Attempt 1 - 26



Scramble - D2 F2 U2 B2 R B2 R' F2 D2 B2 R' U' L U' L2 B' R' B2 D U'
Inverse - U D' B2 R B L2 U L' U R B2 D2 F2 R B2 R' B2 U2 F2 D2

Start on Normal
n: U R' B2 F' R2 // 2x2x2 (5/5)
L D' *B2* // Pseudo 2x2x3 (3/8)
Switch 
i: B2 L' B D2 L' D // F2L-1 extension (6/14)
Switch
n: *B* D B' L' D' F' D F L' // L3C (9-1/22)

Skeleton:
U R' B2 F' R2 L D' B' D B' L' D' F' D F L' D' L D2 B' *@* L B2

*@* - (B L F L' B' L F' L') // (8-4/26)

Pretty good solve and Happy I was able to cancel 4 moves on the Insertion.

Optimal Insertion :tu





Spoiler: Attempt 2 - 29



Scramble - L2 F' U2 B L2 B2 R2 F' U' L' R D F D' L2 R' D2 U'
Inverse - U D2 R L2 D F' D' R' L U F R2 B2 L2 B' U2 F L2

Started on Inverse
i: B' R2 L U B U // 2x2x2 (6/6)
R2 D2 F' D2 F2 D // F2L-1 extension (6/12)
R' F D R D' R // L5C (6/18)

Skeleton:
R' D *@* R' D' F' R D' F2 D2 F D2 R2 *&* U' B' U' L' R2 B

*@* - [451](D2 R U R' D2 R U' R') // (8-2/24)
*&* - [234](R' U' L2 U R' U' L2 U) // (8-3/29)

Found this 18 to L5C in the first 10min and left it as backup.
I went back and started doing it 22min left after I couldn't find anything else.

Optimal Insertions :tu





Spoiler: Attempt 3 - 28



Scramble - B' L2 D2 B U2 F' L2 U2 B L2 D' R' D' R' D2 B D2 L' U' F
Inverse - F' U L D2 B' D2 R D R D L2 B' U2 L2 F U2 B' D2 L2 B

Started on Inverse
i: U2 D' B R' L' U2 // 2x2x2 (6/6)
Switch
n: R' U F' U' R2 D2 // F2L-1 Extension (6/12)
Switch
i: D' F' D // F2L-1 + Pair (3/15)
B D B' R B D' B' // Block Comm to L3C (7/22)

Skeleton:
R' U F' U' R2 D2 B D B' R' B D' B' *@* D' F D U2 L R B' D U2

*@* - (F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 D) // (8-2/28)

I was freaking out during the attempt because I hadn't found anything promising with 20min left. 
I found all the above skeleton with 10min left and spent the next 5min trying to figure out why I wrote the skeleton down wrong.
Then I quickly went through the Insertions and took the first thing that cancelled.

Luckily this was also optimal so :3


*= 27.67 Mean and 11th in the World* 

Time for FMC Mean Round 2 Tomorrow :3


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## okayama (Jul 12, 2015)

My winning solution from Kawasaki Summer 2015.

Scramble: U' L F2 R2 B' R' B2 U R2 D' B2 L D2 L' D2 F2 U2 R F2 R'
Solution: F2 L' U D2 F2 R B R' L U' R' U' R U2 B2 L2 B' L B L' B' D' L2 D L D' L D L (29 moves)


Spoiler



Here is 7 min backup solution (30 moves).

2x2x1 block: F2 L' U
2x2x2 block: D2 F2
2x2x3 block: B L B
F2L minus 1 slot: U' L F U2 F' U
Finish F2L: L' U' L2 U L2 U' L2 U
LL: F' L2 F L F' L F L'

In the next 15 min, I found:

2x2x1 block: F2 L' U
2x2x2 block: D2 F2
More square: R B R' L
More square: U' R' U' R
F2L minus 1 slot: U2 B
Finish F2L: B L2 B' L B L' B'
LL: D' L2 D L D' L D L

In the remaining time, I found another 29 move solution (19 2c2e + insertion):

F2 L' U D2 F2 R B R' L B2 L B' L U L' U' B (B [B D' B Lw2 B' D B Lw2 B2 D] B') L B'

but not better than above. So I submitted the above solution.


Seems a good scramble, but I couldn't find any better solution in time.


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## joshsailscga (Jul 12, 2015)

Rami Sbahi 20 move single.
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1035&cat=15&rnd=2


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## Berd (Jul 12, 2015)

joshsailscga said:


> Rami Sbahi 20 move single.
> http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1035&cat=15&rnd=2


What! ?! I didn't know he was so good!


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jul 13, 2015)

A little off-topic from Rami's WR, but something fun I meant to put in my post there, following from his start.



Spoiler



Scramble: U2 L' D L2 F U2 F L2 U' R2 D2 F2 U2 L2 B' D2 L2 F R2

R2 B' // pseudo 2x2x2
switch to inverse
F U F' L D L2 F2 U' F // lolwat

Any good finish to this? Seems awkward, but 11 move F2L+EO is crazy.


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## not_kevin (Jul 13, 2015)

Well, according to some optimal solver I pulled off the Internet, that specific case is 14-moves optimal - one particular solution can cancel a couple moves:



Spoiler



Scramble: U2 L' D L2 F U2 F L2 U' R2 D2 F2 U2 L2 B' D2 L2 F R2

R2 B' // pseudo 2x2x2
switch to inverse
F U F' L D L2 F2 U' F // lolwat
F R' B' R' F' B R U2 R U2 R' B U2 B' // magic alg

Solution: R2 U2 B' R U2 R' U2 R' B' F R B R F2 U F2 L2 D' L' F U' F' // 22 moves



Using the basic skeleton you suggest, 'tho, I found this:


Spoiler



R2 B' // pseudo 2x2x2
switch to inverse
F U F' L D L2 F' // F2L - 1
U' F' U' F U' F' U F // AB3C

Skeleton: R2 B' F' U' F U F' U F * U F L2 D' L' F U' F' // 17 to AB3C
Insert at *: B' U F U' B U F' U' (cancels 4)

Solution: R2 B' F' U' F U F' U F B' U F U' B U L2 D' L' F U' F' // 21
Still loses to Rami, 'tho


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## 2180161 (Jul 13, 2015)

I need some tips for my NISS solves

I still don't seem to under stand the purpose of premoves and inverses, and how they work even after MDiPalma's explanation, I still create blocks, and then inverse of that then inverse of scramble, but they then end up as pseudo-blocks. WHY?


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## Kit Clement (Jul 13, 2015)

2180161 said:


> I need some tips for my NISS solves
> 
> I still don't seem to under stand the purpose of premoves and inverses, and how they work even after MDiPalma's explanation, I still create blocks, and then inverse of that then inverse of scramble, but they then end up as pseudo-blocks. WHY?



I don't think you're creating pseudo-blocks on the other scramble if they are still pseudo-blocks. First, you'll need understand the purpose of NISS. Any given piece that is occuping a given spot will become the correct piece of that spot in the location that would solve the original piece. For example, let's say that the white-orange edge is in the space of the green-yellow edge in a given state, and we apply NISS. This means that you will find the green-yellow edge in the space of the white-orange edge. 

This means two things -- any solved piece is preserved, and any blocks of pieces are preserved, but may become different colored blocks. So if you have a solved green-red edge with a 2x2x1 block on the white face with blue/orange as the other two colors, you can put this block over the solved edge, then switch, and the correct 2x2x1 (with red-green) will appear on the other scramble.


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## BboyArchon (Jul 14, 2015)

3x3 Fewest Moves. Second attempt I do at home for practising in last 7 months. My previous PB was 37... 

SCRAMBLE: L2 D' R2 B2 D' B2 U2 L2 U' F2 D' L2 R F U L2 D F' D L

2x2x2 on inverse: B2 D R B2 D R2
XXCross White on inverse: F D L' D F2
Switch to red face (still on inverse): L D2 L2 D L' D' L' D
L3C - Magic (yep, on inverse): B' L2 B

Final skeleton: B' L2 B D' L D L D' L2 (--) D2 L' F2 D' L D' F' R2 D' B2 R' D' B2 (22, going for the sub30 finally)

Insert at (--): L2 D R D' L2 D R' D' (5 cancelled!)

Final solution: B' L2 B D' L D L R D' L2 D R' D L' F2 D' L D' F' R2 D' B2 R' D' B2 (*25*)

I can't believe it, I'm starting to love this thing


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## obelisk477 (Jul 14, 2015)

I've been having an issue with both insertion finder and weekly comp where the formatting of my apostrophes doesn't carry over when copying from MS Word, and they get ignored or an error appears. Is there a particular font that fixes this problem? Or some other solution I can't think of? I can manually change them in the browser, but that's a little painstaking.


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## Kit Clement (Jul 15, 2015)

Michigan 2015 FMC means!

Round 1 -- 30.00 average.



Spoiler: Solve 1: D2 F2 U2 B2 R B2 R' F2 D2 B2 R' U' L U' L2 B' R' B2 D U'



I: D2 U2 L D U2 F2 \\2x2x2 + 2 pairs (6/6)
N: L2 D2 L' D' B \\PS-2x2x3 (5/11)
L B2 L2 \\PS F2L-1 (3/14)
I: L2 F' D' F D F' D2 F \\L4C, 3-cycle+1 twisted (8/22)

Skel: L2 D2 L' D' B (1) L B2 L2 F' D2 (2) F D' F' D F L2 F2 U2 D' L' U2 D2

1: B2 L F2 L' B2 L F2 L' (cancels 3)
2: D' B' D F D' B D F' (cancels 5)

Final: L2 D2 L' D' B' L F2 L' B2 L F2 B2 L2 F' D B' D F D' B F' D F L2 F2 U2 D' L' U2 D2 (30)





Spoiler: Solve 2: L2 F' U2 B L2 B2 R2 F' U' L' R D F D' L2 R' D2 U'



I: L2 D2 B U2 \\2 opp squares (4/4)
N: L2 F B2 \\PS 2x2x3 (3/7)
I: F' B2 \\2x2x3 (2/9)
(F') U2 F R2 U2 R' \\F2L-1 (5/14)
B U2 B' U2 R' U2 R B U' (B') \\L3C (9/23)

Skel: L2 F B' U B' R' U2 R U2 B U2 B' R (1) U2 R2 F' U2 F2 B2 U2 B' D2 L2

1: R' U' L' U R U' L U (cancels 3)

Final: L2 F B' U B' R' U2 R U2 B U2 B' U' L' U R U' L U' R2 F' U2 F2 B2 U2 B' D2 L2 (28)





Spoiler: Solve 3: B' L2 D2 B U2 F' L2 U2 B L2 D' R' D' R' D2 B D2 L' U' F



Premove: U2 (1/1)
Rest on normal.

F' L' F U' B' U B L2 \\2x2x3 (8/9)
F D R D' R F' R2 \\F2L-1 + EO (7/16)
F' R F2 R' F2 \\L4C, 3-cycle+1 twisted (5/21)

Skel: F' L' F U' B' U B L2 F (1) D (2) R D' R F' R2 F' R F2 R' F2 U2

1: F' L' F R2 F' L F R2 (cancels 3)
2: F' L2 F R F' L2 F R' (cancels 2)

Final: F' L' F U' B' U B L F R2 F' L F R2 D F' L2 F R F' L2 F D' R F' R2 F' R F2 R' F2 U2 (32)


Round 2 -- 28.33 average.



Spoiler: Solve 1: F2 L D2 R' U2 R2 F2 R' B2 R2 D' F L' U' F2 D2 B' L' D2 L



N: U' B' R2 \\2x2x2 (3/3)
I: B2 L B' L \\pairs that magically come together when you switch (4/7)
N: L2 D B2 \\2x2x3 + square (3/10)
I: D' \\fix square (1/11)
N: F' D' F L' D F' D' F2 L' F' \\L3C (10/21)

Skel: U' B' R2 L2 D B2 F' D' F L' (1) D F' D' F2 L' F' D L' B L' B2

1: F U' F' D F U F' D' (cancels 3)

Final: U' B' R2 L2 D B2 F' D' F L' F U' F' D F U F2 D' F2 L' F' D L' B L' B2 (26)

The L3C ending kind of felt like button mashing in a video game, just trying sledges and sexy moves until something happened.





Spoiler: Solve 2: U2 L' D L2 F U2 F L2 U' R2 D2 F2 U2 L2 B' D2 L2 F R2



N: R' F2 R L F D2 \\2 squares (6/6)
I: F' L' F U2 L2 B D \\2x2x3 + pair (7/13)
F' L2 F2 \\F2L-1 (3/16)
L2 F L' F' \\L5C (4/20)

Skel: R' F2 (1) R L F D2 F L F' (2) L2 F2 L2 F D' B' L2 U2 F' L F

1: D2 R U' R' D2 R U R' (cancels 2)
2: F L B L' F' L' B L' (cancels 4)

Final: R' F2 D2 R U' R' D2 R U L F D2 F L2 B L' F' L' B L F2 L2 F D' B' L2 U2 F' L F (30)





Spoiler: Solve 3: B2 F2 L' F2 R' U2 L' F2 D2 R' U' R2 D B2 U L B' D' L' D



N: L U2 R U' R B' \\2x2x2 + 2 pairs (6/6)
U R2 U F' U \\2x2x3 (5/11)
R2 \\align pair/edge (1/12)
I: R' U F U' D' F D \\L4C, 2 pure 2-cycles (7/19)

Skel: L U2 R (1) U' R B' U R2 U F' U R2 D' (2) F' D U F U' R

1: B D2 B' U' B D2 B' U (cancels 2)
2: D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F (cancels 4)

Final: L U2 R B D2 B' U' B D2 B' R B' U R2 U F' U R2 D F' U' F D2 F' D U2 F U' (29)

not optimal


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 16, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> I've been having an issue with both insertion finder and weekly comp where the formatting of my apostrophes doesn't carry over when copying from MS Word, and they get ignored or an error appears. Is there a particular font that fixes this problem? Or some other solution I can't think of? I can manually change them in the browser, but that's a little painstaking.



Don't use Word. Word likes to change things that you type to something else. If you really want to use Word, go to the preferences and uncheck the preference that causes quotation marks to be replaced with smart quotation marks. Otherwise your apostrophes become some non-ASCII character instead of the ASCII apostrophe.


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## obelisk477 (Jul 16, 2015)

cuBerBruce said:


> Don't use Word. Word likes to change things that you type to something else. If you really want to use Word, go to the preferences and uncheck the preference that causes quotation marks to be replaced with smart quotation marks. Otherwise your apostrophes become some non-ASCII character instead of the ASCII apostrophe.



Cool, just changed the preference, thanks!


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## CyanSandwich (Jul 16, 2015)

Wow, just got a 23 move solution and my PB is 34. Not counting as PB because it was over an hour.


Spoiler



Scramble: B2 F2 R2 U2 R2 U B2 D2 B2 U L2 B' L F' R' D2 R B2 R' F2

L' R2 B F' U' R2 //2x2x2 (6/6)
L' B2 L' B' L' B D //L4E (7/13)

Skeleton: L' R2 B F' U' (+) (*) R2 L' B2 L' B' L' B D

Insert at (+): U2 S U2 S'
Insert at (*): S R B' R' S' R B R'
6 moves cancelled total.

Solution: L' R2 B F' U Fw F' U2 R B' R' Fw' F R B R L' B2 L' B' L' B D (23)


I'm quite happy with this, despite the luckiness and going over an hour. It'd be interesting to see some good FMCers try it.


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## Torch (Jul 17, 2015)

This solution isn't especially amazing, but I'm happy I managed to find optimal insertions for L5C.

Scramble: B' F' U2 L2 D2 U2 B' L2 R2 B' F' L D B U' L R2 B2 F' L U2 

F B2 L2 R U//2x2x2 
D' L' D F2//2x2x3
D2 L' D//Pseudo F2L minus 1
B' L' B L2 D L D//5 corners

Skeleton: F B2 L2 R U [2] D' L' D F2 D2 L' D B' L' B L2 [1] D L D

[1]: L2 D' R' D L2 D' R D
[2]: F' D' B' D F D' B D

Solution: F B2 L2 R U F' D' B' D F D' B L' D F2 D2 L' D B' L' B D' R' D L2 D' R D2 L D (30)


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## okayama (Jul 19, 2015)

My solutions in WC2015.

1st scramble: L2 U' B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D U' L2 U2 B' R2 B' R B R' D' B' F2
1st solution: F' U2 B' R2 L2 U2 B' U' B U2 B' U B2 U L' B2 L2 B2 D' L U L' D L (24 moves)


Spoiler



Here is 20 min backup solution (28 moves).

(Normal)

2x2x2 block: F' U2 B' R2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: U2 R2 B U2 F

More square: U' L B2 L
More square: U'
F2L minus 1 slot: B' U'
Orient edges: L U' L U
Finish F2L: B L' B'
LL: B F' L' F L B' L2 F' L2 F L2
Correction: U2 R2 B U2 F

In the remaining time, I found the following solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L2 R2 B U2 F

More square: U' L' * B2
2x2x3 block: L2 B2 L
F2L minus 1 slot: U' B'
All but 3 corners: B' U' B U2 B' U B U2
Correction: L2 R2 B U2 F

Insert at *: L U L' D' L U' L' D

Emanuel told me the short 2x2x3 block on normal:

2x2x2 block: F' U2 B' R2
2x2x3 block: U B U2

but I didn't see that.



2nd scramble: L2 U2 F' D2 B2 F' R2 B' U2 F' R D2 L D F' L U' B2 L' F2
2nd solution: B' F' L F' L2 F L F2 L' F L2 F' L B2 U2 F2 U D2 B R U' F2 D' B D F2 D' B' L' F' (30 moves)


Spoiler



(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F B

Orient edges: F L * U D R'
2x2x3 block: B' D2 U' F2 U2 B2
F2L minus 1 slot: L' F L2 F' L F2
All but 3 corners: L' F' L2 F L'
Correction: F B

Insert at *: B D F2 D' B' D F2 D'



3rd scramble: U2 B2 D2 L2 B2 U L2 D' L' F D' L F' D B' D2 F' R' U
3rd solution: R' F' U' F U' F U2 F' U F' U F U' R' L D' R' F R2 L' F D' B' F' R B R' F R B' (30 moves)


Spoiler



(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: R'

1st square: R' B D
2nd square: F' L R2 F'
2x2x3 block: R D L' R

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: R' L D' R' F R2 L' F D' B' R

2x2x3 block: R'
F2L minus 1 slot: F' U' F U' F U2 F'
All but 3 corners: U F' U F U'
Correction: R' L D' [@1] R' F R2 L' F D' B' R
Corner 3-cycle: R' F' R B R' F R B'

The 3-cycle is not optimal, I overlooked the optimal insertion:

Insert at @1: D R' D' L D R D' L'

maybe because there is not enough time left and I felt pressed. 


I know 28 mean is not enough to win. Congrats to winners.


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## G2013 (Jul 21, 2015)

Finally getting good at FMC!

New PB, 27 moves: [scramble from speedsolving.com/competitions round 30 year 2015]



Spoiler



Scramble: L2 R2 D' L2 D L2 B2 D R2 U2 B2 L' F D' L R D' L' D2 B' F2 
Inverse scramble: F2 B D2 L D R' L' D F' L B2 U2 R2 D' B2 L2 D' L2 D R2 L2

On normal:
D R' B L' B F2 U2 F' U B'//2x2x3
R2 D R D2 R D R' D' R' D R //L3C

Skeleton: D R' B L' B F2 U2 F' U B' R2 D R D2 R D R' D' R' D R (21 HTM)

Insertions:
D R' B [R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R U2] L' B F2 U2 F' U B' R2 D R D2 R D R' D' R' D R (29)
D R' B L' B [L B' L' F2 L B L' F2] F2 U2 F' U B' R2 D R D2 R D R' D' R' D R (27)
D R' B L' B F2 U2 F' U B' R2 D R [B U B' D2 B U' B' D2] D2 R D R' D' R' D R (27)

Final solve: D R' B L' B F2 U2 F' U B' R2 D R B U B' D2 B U' B' R D R' D' R' D R (27 HTM)



Quite good for me (my previous PBs were 28, 29, lots of 30s, and etc.)


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## EMI (Jul 21, 2015)

Spoiler: Solutions



1. L2 U' B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D U' L2 U2 B' R2 B' R B R' D' B' F2

2x2x2: F' U2 B' R2
2x2x3: U B U2
Switch & EO: B' D L' D'
F2L-1: L B2
L5C: L B L B'

Skeleton: F' U2 B' R2 U B U2 B L' B' L' B2 L' D L D' @ B (17)
@ = D L' U2 L D' L' # U2 L (8-4/21)
# = L2 U' R' U L2 U' R U (8-2/27)
Insertions are optimal.

/*
After EO, L2 B' L B L2 B2 L2 make an 18 L4C, but there aren't any good insertions.
I also had this 17 move L5E:
F' U2 B' R2 U B U2 L' F' L B2 L' F D @ L D' B
and
@ = D' U B2 D U' L2 (6-3)
-> L3E in 20. Again, no good second insertion found (28 optimal for this L3E skeleton)
*/

Total: F' U2 B' R2 U B U2 B L' B' L' B2 L' D U2 L D' L U' R' U L2 U' R U' L B (27)

2. L2 U2 F' D2 B2 F' R2 B' U2 F' R D2 L D F' L U' B2 L' F2

2x2x3: L2 D2 R D' [B'] U2 F' [D2] B [D2] L
Switch, EO/2-Gen: L' D' L
Pseudo-F2L: B D2 B2 D2
Sune: D B D' B D B2 D' B2 D'

Total: L2 D2 R D' B' U2 F' D2 B D2 L D B2 D B2 D' B' D B' D B2 D2 B' L' D L (26)

3. U2 B2 D2 L2 B2 U L2 D' L' F D' L F' D B' D2 F' R' U

On inverse, Pseudo-2x2x2: L R B'
Switch, 2x2x3: B2 D' L' [D'] F
Pseudo-F2L-1: D' L' F' D F
Switch, F2L-1: L D
L3C: F L F' L F L' F' L

Skeleton: B2 D' L' D' F D' L' F' D F L' F L F' L' F L' F' D' L' B R' L' @ (23)
@ = R B L2 B' R' B L2 B' (8-2/29)

Total: B2 D' L' D' F D' L' F' D F L' F L F' L' F L' F' D' L' B L' B L2 B' R' B L2 B' (29)
Again optimal.



Mean of 3: 27, 26, 29 -> 27.33
Third place!

Btw,
(32), (25), 29, 25, 30, 28, 26, 25, 29, 27, 26, 29 -> 27.4 "official" Average of 12


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## Bubtore (Jul 24, 2015)

Nice Emanuel, I didn't even realise there was a 2x2x2 in 4 moves until 10 minutes before the end ...
I've been doing some FM races in the last days, and sometimes got interesting starts, like these :

1. Scramble // D2 R2 D B2 D2 F2 U2 R2 D R2 D B D F2 L’ F D2 L D U2 R
Inverse Scramble // R’ U2 D’ L’ D2 F’ L F2 D’ B’ D’ R2 D’ R2 U2 F2 D2 B2 D’ R2 D2

1x2x2 on normal // D’ R’
*switch to inverse* // D’ B’ (premoves are R D)
*switch to normal* // U’ L U’ F2 (premoves are B D)

Until here this gives : D’ R’ U’ L U’ F2 (it’s a 2x2x3 block and premoves are B D)
*switch to inverse* // (premoves F2 U L’ U R D), I see that D’ B’ is pointless, so I do this instead :
2x2x3 with many blocks // L’ D’ B2 U’ B2 L’ B’
L3C // L2 U L2 U’ F U’ F’ U

So everything but 3 corners is : D’ R’ U’ L U’ F2 U’ F U + F’ U L2 U’ L2 B L B2 U B2 D L
+ R B R’ F R B’ R’ F’

Final Solution : D’ R’ U’ L U’ F2 U’ F U R B R’ F R B’ R’ F2 U L2 U’ L2 B L B2 U B2 D L - 28 moves

2. Scramble // U2 B2 U2 F2 L2 D2 R2 F2 D' F2 U' B' U' F2 L2 D' R' U' R2 U
Inverse // U’ R2 U R D L2 F2 U B U F2 D F2 R2 D2 L2 F2 U2 B2 U2

222 // R D2
223 // F’ U R2 F U2 F2
*switch to inverse*
F2L-1 // (U’)
EO // (R2 U R2 U’ B’ R B)
Finish // (U R U2 R’ U2 R’ U2 R2 U R)

Solution // R D2 F’ U R2 F U2 F2 R’ U’ R2 U2 R U2 R U2 R’ U’ B’ R’ B U R2 U’ R2 U - 26 moves

I guess there are surely better continuations ...


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## Jimmy Liu (Jul 25, 2015)

I had a promising continuation after 13 moves, but I ended up with 31 moves.
Can any one give me advice or find better solutions? Thanks!

Scramble: B' D2 B L2 B2 L2 D2 U2 B' L' R U L' D' R2 B' D2 L' D2 U'

apply on inverse

U L' U2 R' B' L2 - 2x2x2 block
F2 U' R - 2x2x3 block
F U' F U' - F2L-1
F' R' F' R - make a 2x2x1 block
F2 - switch to orange cross
F' R' F R' F' R F - two layers
B' R' B R' B' R2 B - OLL
PLL skip! (31 moves)


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## Brest (Jul 25, 2015)

Jimmy Liu said:


> I had a promising continuation after 13 moves, but I ended up with 31 moves.
> Can any one give me advice or find better solutions? Thanks!
> 
> Scramble: B' D2 B L2 B2 L2 D2 U2 B' L' R U L' D' R2 B' D2 L' D2 U'
> ...



U D2 L D2 B R2 D L U' R' L B U2 D2 L2 B2 L2 B' D2 B // inverse scramble

U L' U2 R' B' L2 // your 2x2x2
F2 U' R // your 2x2x3

F L F L' F' U2 // F2L
R' D' L D' L' D2 R // ab3c (Wide Sune)


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## y235 (Jul 25, 2015)

This is from the weekly competition (2015 week 30). I found a good start (I think), but couldn't find a good continuation. 
Would someone care to help me to find a good finish or give criticism about my approach? Thanks!



Spoiler: spoiler



Scramble: L2 R2 D' L2 D L2 B2 D R2 U2 B2 L' F D' L R D' L' D2 B' F2 

Pre-Scramble: B2

Two antipodal 2x2x2 blocks: D' L R' B' L2 B2 F U' (8)

I tried some pre-scramble moves to get a 2x2x3 block. For example, an L2 B2 pre-scramble, and then a U2 F L' B' continuation would give a misaligned F2L minus 1 Slot.


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## APdRF (Jul 25, 2015)

Hi you all! I'm pretty new in FMC, and I have troubles with the ends of the cubes. The only good ending I've ever found was the past week at a competition were I did a 25 moves attempt because of a magical cancelation xD

Scramble: U2 B D2 R2 B' U2 F' D2 F2 R2 F R' D F2 U B R' D F2 U2 L'

L U L' (2x2x1 -> 3)

D B' U (2x2x2 -> 6)

After that I could find lots of continuations but, as always, none good. Can you give me some advice on how to continue?

My continuations were:

R' D2 R2 D R' *or* D F' D' F R F' *or* F' R' L' F' L D2 (2x2x3 -> 11, 12, 12)

Using the first one I could find three F2Ls-1 in 18, 19 and 19

Using the second one: D R2 B R B' R *D* (F2L-1 -> 19) + *D* R' D' F' R F R' (ab5c -> 25) [I also got lost searching for inserions... LOL]

Using the third one: R F' R' F *R* (Pseudo F2L-1 -> 17) with R2 as a premove I found: *R* F' U F U' R' (Another square...)

So that's all, I don't know how to finish


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## Bubtore (Jul 25, 2015)

If you can’t find any good continuation try to build that same block in a different way :

222 // D B’ L2 U L2 U
223 // F2 D’ B R2 B’ R
F2L-1 // R F’ R’ F D’ F2
EO // F’ R F R’
L3C // D2 R’ D R D

So you get to L3C in 25 moves in my case, although we both started with the identical 2x2x2 :
D B’ L2 U L2 U F2 D’ B R2 B’ R2 F’ R’ F D’ F R F R’ D2 R’ D R D
And this is still a straight-forward solution, so you should see how pre-moves and inverses work, then you have plenty of new possibilities !

Not related :
A cool solution I found today (but well, it’s a skip ... meh)
Scramble: D2 F2 U2 L2 U2 B D2 F' D2 U2 B' R' F2 L2 D L' R' U' F U2 B
Inverse scramble: B' U2 F' U R L D' L2 F2 R B U2 D2 F D2 B' U2 L2 U2 F2 D2

I don’t remember why ... // D2 F’ U’ R
*switch*
XXcross - 1 move // (D’ L’ R D2 L2)
F2L // (F’ R’ F’ R F2 R’)
LL // (L D L B’ L’ B D’ L’ D)

Final solution // D2 F’ U’ R D’ L D B’ L B L’ D’ L’ R F2 R’ F R F L2 D2 R’ L D - 24 moves


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## Joey VOV (Jul 26, 2015)

I am very new to FMC solving with more advanced techniques. I recently tried a solve using NISS, and it worked out fairly well, however, I can't seem to figure out how to write the final solution. I know that the inverse of my moves before the switch go at the end of the solution, but I made premoves after I switched, and I don't know how to fit that into the solution. I have everything I did here: 

normal: D' B2 D L2 D2 B2 U' F2 L2 U L2 R F' U R2 B' F D' R D L2
inverse: L2 D' R' D F' B R2 U' F R' L2 U' L2 F2 U B2 D2 L2 D' B2 D

on normal:
F2 L2 F B D' / 2X2X2 (5) (Premoves: D B' F' L2 F2)
Switch to inverse:
D B U' B' U D' F2 / Pseudo 2X2X3 (12) use Premove F
U' F' U2 F U2 R2 U / Pseudo F2L -1 +EO (19) use Premove U
F R2 F' R2 F R' F' / To L3C (26) 
R' U' R D R' U R D'/ L3C (34) 

Any help explaining the final solution to me would be greatly appreciated.


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## cmhardw (Jul 26, 2015)

Joey VOV said:


> I am very new to FMC solving with more advanced techniques. I recently tried a solve using NISS, and it worked out fairly well, however, I can't seem to figure out how to write the final solution. I know that the inverse of my moves before the switch go at the end of the solution, but I made premoves after I switched, and I don't know how to fit that into the solution. I have everything I did here:
> 
> normal: D' B2 D L2 D2 B2 U' F2 L2 U L2 R F' U R2 B' F D' R D L2
> inverse: L2 D' R' D F' B R2 U' F R' L2 U' L2 F2 U B2 D2 L2 D' B2 D
> ...



I write my solutions like this:

(stuff done on inverse scramble) (Scramble) (stuff done on regular scramble)

An example of what my paper might look like:

U' L2 F' D' (S) R F D2 B D' L2

Where (S) is my shorthand for (Scramble)

When working on the regular scramble I write after the (Scramble) section from left to right, and I write the turn I perform.

When I work on the inverse scramble I write in the section to the left of (Scramble) from right to left, and I write the inverse of the turn I perform.

When applying a premove, write the premoves, using the same convention as the side you're writing on, but write it on the *other side of the scramble*

For example, in my fake example above, when working on the inverse scramble I realize that R would be my next move to solve the pseudo block. I would then write R' on the right hand most side of the solution like this:

U' L2 F' D' (S) R F D2 B D' L2 *R'*

At the end of your solve, move the entire left hand side of your solution, without flip or rotation, to the far right side of your solution and this will solve the scramble.

Let me know of this is unclear or if it does not help.


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## Joey VOV (Jul 26, 2015)

cmhardw said:


> I write my solutions like this:
> 
> (stuff done on inverse scramble) (Scramble) (stuff done on regular scramble)
> 
> ...



Thank you for the reply. I thought I understood your instructions, but then I tried it, and it did not work. Even so, if it did work, I wouldn't be able to tell why it does work just from your instructions. Maybe if I had the solution I am looking for, I could figure it out by working backwrds. anyway, using what you said, this is what I did:

(stuff done on inverse scramble)(scramble)(stuff done on regular scramble) as instructed
(D' B' U B U' D F2 U F U2 F' U2 R2 U' F' R2 F R2 F' R F R U R' D' R U' R' D)S(F2 L2 F B D')
Add premoves as instructed
(D' B' U B U' D F2 U F U2 F' U2 R2 U' F' R2 F R2 F' R F R U R' D' R U' R' D)S(F2 L2 F B D')(U' F')
Move inverse side to far right
(F2 L2 F B D')(U' F')(D' B' U B U' D F2 U F U2 F' U2 R2 U' F' R2 F R2 F' R F R U R' D' R U' R' D)

Refer back to my original outline of what I did if you're as confused as I am, all of my moves are there.


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## APdRF (Jul 26, 2015)

Bubtore said:


> If you can’t find any good continuation try to build that same block in a different way :
> 
> 222 // D B’ L2 U L2 U
> 223 // F2 D’ B R2 B’ R
> ...



Thank you! So the best is to try and try until an easy finish pops out? I've been searching how to finish Heise Style, but I need to work more on the method because it still seems difficult to me.

Also, congrats on the good solution you posted


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## tseitsei (Jul 26, 2015)

APdRF said:


> Thank you! So the best is to try and try until an easy finish pops out?



Basically yes. In the end you should try to solve enough pieces so that the remaining unsolved pieces can be solved with 1-2 commutators and then do insertions.

You can leave 3-5 corners unsolved (most common case by far. At least for me)
Or 3-5 edges if you can do it with few enough moves. (note that edge insertions usually take more moves than corner insertions unless you get lucky and get a 6-mover case)
Or you can leave 3 edges and 3 corners (I like these cases a lot for some reason  )
Or you can leave something different and weird but I don't really know how to handle those... (like leaving 2 edges and 2 corners...)

But yeah the best idea if you can't find a good ending is just slightly altering your earlier solution to get a different end case which might be better


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## EMI (Jul 26, 2015)

Joey VOV said:


> Thank you for the reply. I thought I understood your instructions, but then I tried it, and it did not work. Even so, if it did work, I wouldn't be able to tell why it does work just from your instructions. Maybe if I had the solution I am looking for, I could figure it out by working backwrds. anyway, using what you said, this is what I did:
> 
> (stuff done on inverse scramble)(scramble)(stuff done on regular scramble) as instructed
> (D' B' U B U' D F2 U F U2 F' U2 R2 U' F' R2 F R2 F' R F R U R' D' R U' R' D)S(F2 L2 F B D')
> ...



Here's how i do it, if it helps. At the end of this post is your solution in this notation.
Basically, I still imagine some moves to be on the "left side" of the scramble, and some on the right.
To differenciate, I put the moves on the left side / inverse scramble in brackets.
Let's ignore premoves for now, because they are only confusing. ^^
So if my 2x2x3 start works like this: (This is how I would post it in this thread, for example)

normal: R U R2
switch to inverse: B' L2 B'
switch to normal: D F D F
switch to inverse: R2

, I would actually write it down on my sheet like this:

R U R2 (B' L2 B') D F D F (R2)

The moves in brackets are the *inverted* premoves, so they are the moves I actually do on the inverse.
Note how this notation represents exactly the order in which you found the moves!
Now, if this is your current solution start, and, say, you now want to continue on the normal scramble, your premoves are the *inverted* moves in brackets, starting from the left.
So in this case your premoves would be
R2 B L2 B
Then the normal scramble has to be performed. Then you perform the "normal" moves, without inverting them, in the order you wrote them down:
R U R2 D F D F.
If, instead, you want to continue on the inverse scramble, you have to use the inverse of what I just described. So you start with the *inverted* non-bracketed moves from the right:
F' D' F' D' R2 U' R'
Then you perform the inverse scramble. Then then the moves in brackets, not inverted, and starting from the left:
B' L2 B' R2

This might seem complicated at first. But the nice thing is it is very easy to write down. To add some moves on the normal, just write them at the right hand end without brackets. To add moves on the inverse, write them to the right hand end, too, but in brackets. No need to start in the middle of your sheet, or something like that.
Always remember that the moves in brackets are the inverted premoves for the normal scramble, and the moves without brackets are the inverted premoves for the inverse scramble.
It is also worth noting that, if you want to make your start more readible, you can rearrange the parts of the solution a bit, by grouping the normal and inverse moves - as long as the normal scramble moves stay in their order, and the inverse scramble moves stay in their order. So to rearrange the above 11 moves you could write
R U R2 D F D F (B' L2 B' R2)
which is equivalent.

Now, the next thing you can use are premoves (for pseudo-blocks). The easiest thing to do is switching and treating the premove as moves like all the other moves. (With a bit of experience, this won't be necessary.)
But don't get confused by the order of premoves and moves on the inverted scamble. In my above example, the "last" move to create a 2x2x3 is a bracketed (R2). So after the first ten moves there will remain a pseudo-2x2x3 on the normal scramble, and a 2x2x3 with a missing move on the inverse scramble. The easiest thing to do is to apply that missing move on the inverse scramble (adding another switch, basically).

Now, when your skeleton is finally ready (which is when you should write down all the normal and inverse moves as just moves on the normal), what you have to write down are
- first, the moves on the normal, in the order you wrote them down
- second, *the moves you would normally apply as premoves before the scramble*, so the moves in brackets starting from the right (inverted).

So if we imagine that our little example above creates a L3C-skeleton already, this skeleton would look like:
R U R2 D F D F | R2 B L2 B

I hope this helps. It takes a bit of practise, but once you get used to it, I think this is the easiest way to keep track of your solution.

/-----------------------

Here is your above solution in my (actually, porkinator's) notation:

Scramble: D' B2 D L2 D2 B2 U' F2 L2 U L2 R F' U R2 B' F D' R D L2
Your solution: F2 L2 F B D' (D B U' B' U D' F2) F' (U' F' U2 F U2 R2 U) U' (F R2 F' R2 F R' F') (R' U' R D R' U R D')
Solution written down correctly: F2 L2 F B D' F' U' | D R' U' R D' R' U R F R F' R2 F R2 F' U' R2 U2 F' U2 F U F2 D U' B U B' D'
(As you can see your premoves were inverted.)
Again, my advise would be to just do another switch to perform a premove.


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## APdRF (Jul 26, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> Basically yes. In the end you should try to solve enough pieces so that the remaining unsolved pieces can be solved with 1-2 commutators and then do insertions.
> 
> You can leave 3-5 corners unsolved (most common case by far. At least for me)
> Or 3-5 edges if you can do it with few enough moves. (note that edge insertions usually take more moves than corner insertions unless you get lucky and get a 6-mover case)
> ...



Thanks for the answer, I'll keep trying. Just to know, how do you solve it when you have 3 corners and 3 edges left?


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## tseitsei (Jul 26, 2015)

APdRF said:


> Thanks for the answer, I'll keep trying. Just to know, how do you solve it when you have 3 corners and 3 edges left?



Just find an insertion for 3 corners first and then you are left with 3 edges and find an insertion for those too  Or the other way around (first insertion to solve edges and second to solve corners...)

Do you know what insertions are and how to use them?


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## y235 (Jul 26, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> Just find an insertion for 3 corners first and then you are left with 3 edges and find an insertion for those too  Or the other way around (first insertion to solve edges and second to solve corners...)
> 
> Do you know what insertions are and how to use them?



Or, if you're lucky enough, you might be able to finish with a pair 3-cycle


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## EMI (Jul 26, 2015)

APdRF said:


> Thanks for the answer, I'll keep trying. Just to know, how do you solve it when you have 3 corners and 3 edges left?



Surprisingly many times you will be able to insert something like a Sexy Move to solve the edges. See my first solve here. With that skeleton, the insertion finder found something worse iirc (doing two regular insertions).
Usually two 3-cycles will do though


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## tseitsei (Jul 26, 2015)

y235 said:


> Or, if you're lucky enough, you might be able to finish with a pair 3-cycle



Yep. Or g perm but those are really rare exceptions I think


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## APdRF (Jul 26, 2015)

Wow, so many possibilities  I know what insertions are and know how to do pure conmutators, but I have problems finding cancellations and sometimes I have to do several attempts to write it down correctly  Lack of practise I guess

@EMI, I'm gonna give a look at your solve right now.

Thank you all for the feedback!


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## JustinTimeCuber (Jul 26, 2015)

can someone explain the FMC terminology? i confuzzled


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## APdRF (Jul 26, 2015)

JustinTimeCuber said:


> can someone explain the FMC terminology? i confuzzled



If you write the terminology you are confused with it will be easier to help


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## JustinTimeCuber (Jul 26, 2015)

APdRF said:


> If you write the terminology you are confused with it will be easier to help



insertions, skeletons, niss, and how they work


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## TDM (Jul 26, 2015)

JustinTimeCuber said:


> insertions, skeletons, niss, and how they work


Skeleton: a sequence of moves that almost solves the cube, but leaves a few pieces (e.g. all but 3/5 corners is common)
Insertion: you insert a commutator into a skeleton to solve those pieces. You try to cancel as many moves as you can.
NISS: a method. More info here.


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## KevinG (Jul 26, 2015)

Can someone explain to me how to find and use comms for edges?


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## Joey VOV (Jul 26, 2015)

EMI said:


> Here's how i do it, if it helps. At the end of this post is your solution in this notation.
> Basically, I still imagine some moves to be on the "left side" of the scramble, and some on the right.
> To differenciate, I put the moves on the left side / inverse scramble in brackets.
> Let's ignore premoves for now, because they are only confusing. ^^
> ...



Okay, I get it now  thank you. It is just something I need to spend more time with, I am not as quick a learner as I think I am sometimes.


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## Bubtore (Jul 26, 2015)

Basically the only good commutator for edges is R' L D2 R L F2, or from a different angle of course.


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## ryanj92 (Jul 26, 2015)

JustinTimeCuber said:


> insertions, skeletons, niss, and how they work



become enlightened


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## Julian (Jul 26, 2015)

Bubtore said:


> Basically the only good commutator for edges is R' L D2 R L F2, or from a different angle of course.


Disagree  I think 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10-movers are all worth using. Less often than corners, of course.


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## Kit Clement (Jul 26, 2015)

Bubtore said:


> Basically the only good commutator for edges is R' L D2 R L F2, or from a different angle of course.



Even if you don't believe in anything more than 6 moves, what's wrong with R U2 R' L F2 L'?


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## CyanSandwich (Jul 27, 2015)

Honestly though, I got a 23 using two edge commutators, one of which was 10 moves. My PB being 34.


CyanSandwich said:


> Scramble: B2 F2 R2 U2 R2 U B2 D2 B2 U L2 B' L F' R' D2 R B2 R' F2
> ...
> Skeleton: L' R2 B F' U' (+) (*) R2 L' B2 L' B' L' B D
> 
> ...


So it's worth a shot. But I didn't search any further, so there could have been better insertions.


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## Bubtore (Jul 27, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Even if you don't believe in anything more than 6 moves, what's wrong with R U2 R' L F2 L'?



oh true ! I'm using my M-slices too much ...

Not associated to that, has anyone ever experienced this here ?!

Scramble: F R2 B L2 R2 U2 F' D2 B D' L U F' D' U2 R' U2 R2 D' L'

AB3C // D F R’ B2 R F’ R’ B = F D’ L2 B R2 B’ + D2 R D F’ L D’ L’ D’ F2 D F’ D2
= B R’ B’ L2 B R B’ L2
+ B R’ B’ L2 B R B’ L2


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## G2013 (Jul 27, 2015)

CyanSandwich said:


> Honestly though, I got a 23 using two edge commutators, one of which was 10 moves. My PB being 34.
> 
> So it's worth a shot. But I didn't search any further, so there could have been better insertions.



Actually not, I checked with IF and you did optimal insertions


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## porkynator (Jul 27, 2015)

About edge commutators: don't forget the 8-movers!

R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 D

and

R2 B2 L2 U L2 B2 R2 D

and inverses etc...

and the cyclyc-shift variations:

R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 D
B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 D R2
L2 U B2 R2 F2 D R2 B2

solve exactly the same case!


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## G2013 (Jul 27, 2015)

porkynator said:


> About edge commutators: don't forget the 8-movers!
> 
> R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 D
> 
> ...



How are those comms formed? I can't find a structure


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## porkynator (Jul 27, 2015)

G2013 said:


> How are those comms formed? I can't find a structure


Honestly, I have no idea. I promised to myself I would study them in detail sooner or later, but for now I just use them without knowing how they work.


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## not_kevin (Jul 28, 2015)

porkynator said:


> Honestly, I have no idea. I promised to myself I would study them in detail sooner or later, but for now I just use them without knowing how they work.



I confess I still don't fully understand them, in the sense that I fully understand corner comms and the other common edge comms, but I was able to read through this description Ranzha linked me to on the Facebook group and make sense of how it roughly works:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...rithms)-work&p=1054905&viewfull=1#post1054905


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## Meneghetti (Jul 28, 2015)

Official 24 single @ SESC Santos 2015! And 29.67 mo3 (24, 29, 36) 

Scramble: B U2 B D2 R2 U2 B L2 B D2 U B' U L D L' F2 L' D2 B L'


Spoiler



U' R' U2 L B R2 // 2x2x2
U' F2 U F // 2x2x3
F' L2 F2 U' F' // EO
L U2 L' // F2L-1
L U2 L2 U' L2 U' L2 U2 L U // AB3C

Found this in the first 3 minutes lol

Skeleton: U' R' U2 L B R2 U' F2 U L2 F2 U' * F' L' U' L2 U' L2 U2 L U
insert at *: U F' D F U' F' D' F (5 cancellations)

Solution: U' R' U2 L B R2 U' F2 U L2 F D F U' F' D' L' U' L2 U' L2 U2 L U *(24 OBTM)*


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## AndersB (Jul 29, 2015)

Scramble: F' U B2 D L2 B2 D R F' D2 B U R2 F U' L2 B R U B

D2 L’ D2 R2 B L2 // 2x2x2
R F2 R D’ R2 F R2 F D2// AB3E2C 

Any good way to finish this off? My best was 34, which felt kind of disappointing with that start.


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## porkynator (Jul 29, 2015)

AndersB said:


> Scramble: F' U B2 D L2 B2 D R F' D2 B U R2 F U' L2 B R U B
> 
> D2 L’ D2 R2 B L2 // 2x2x2
> R F2 R D’ R2 F R2 F D2// AB3E2C
> ...



D2 L’ D2 R2 B L2
R F2 R D’ R2 F R2 F * D2

* = F //Pseudo F2L
F L D L' D' F' //fruruf
F' D2 F D F' D F //antisune
D F' //Finish

28 HTM

or

D2 L’ * D2 R2 + B L2
R F2 R D’ R2 F R2 F D2
* = R B U B' U' R' U //fruruf
+ = R' U2 R D R' U2 R D'


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## G2013 (Jul 29, 2015)

porkynator said:


> D2 L’ D2 R2 B L2
> R F2 R D’ R2 F R2 F * D2
> 
> * = F //Pseudo F2L
> ...



Sorry to bother you again, but what are you doing there? Inserting sunes and frurufs? How does that work? :S
I feel like I don't know anything



not_kevin said:


> I confess I still don't fully understand them, in the sense that I fully understand corner comms and the other common edge comms, but I was able to read through this description Ranzha linked me to on the Facebook group and make sense of how it roughly works:
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...=1#post1054905



Thanks for the link, I think I've undertsood it


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## porkynator (Jul 29, 2015)

G2013 said:


> Sorry to bother you again, but what are you doing there? Inserting sunes and frurufs? How does that work? :S
> I feel like I don't know anything



The first case is actually easy to see with premoves: finishing with ...R2 F2 instead of ...R2 F D2 gives you pseudo F2L, so you have a normal F2L by adding premoves F' D2. Not really an insertionn here.
The last one is a bit harder. After the first two moves (D2 L') if you've marked the 5 unsolved pieces, you can see that they all are on the same layer. You can "break" the solve at this point by adding as premoves all the rest (D2 R2 B L2 R F2 R D’ R2 F R2 F D2). I think I've called this "reverse NISS" in my guide.


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## PenguinsDontFly (Jul 29, 2015)

I'm getting into FMC, and as expected, I'm a total nub. Tips?

scramble: F' D2 L2 B' F2 L2 F2 R2 D2 F' D2 L B2 F2 U B D' U B' L F2

switch to inverse:
2x2x2: U' R2 F' B D

switch to normal with premoves: D' B' F R2 U
2x2x3: F' U F2 R' F' R
F2L-1: D F' D' L' F' L2
Edges: L' F' L F D F D' F

Skeleton: * F' U F2 R' F' R D F' D' L' F' L2 L' F' L F D F D' F D' B' # F R2 U

Insert at #: R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R U2
Insert at *: R B' R' F' R B R' F

Final solution: R B' R' F' R B R' U F2 R' F' R D F' D' L' F' L F' L F D F D' F D' B' R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R U2 F R2 U (38 HTM)


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## theROUXbiksCube (Jul 29, 2015)

How do you do L5C? What is the basis of block building to? F2L-1 and EO right?


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## PenguinsDontFly (Jul 29, 2015)

theROUXbiksCube said:


> How do you do L5C? What is the basis of block building to? F2L-1 and EO right?



yes and no. block building gets you to F2L-1, but you also want to orient AND permute edges, leaving 0-5 corners to solve. I dont know if its any good, but for L5C, i just do 2 separate insertions of 3 cycles.


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## shadowslice e (Jul 29, 2015)

theROUXbiksCube said:


> How do you do L5C? What is the basis of block building to? F2L-1 and EO right?



technically, you can block build to anything you want and the last parts of the solve would use piece cycles to solve the rest of the cube.

Typically, however, an FMCer(?) will block build to a point where there are only 5 corners unsolved (hence L5C) and the work out the cycles to solve the pieces. The cuber will then attempt to find a point in which they could insert the alg they generated so that as many moves as possible are cancelled out by the skeleton (U by U', R by R' etc) alternatively, they will attempt to find a good point in which the corners could be cycled easily as well.

Thus the skeleton serves as the frame for which the final solution can be formed using.


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## G2013 (Jul 29, 2015)

porkynator said:


> The first case is actually easy to see with premoves: finishing with ...R2 F2 instead of ...R2 F D2 gives you pseudo F2L, so you have a normal F2L by adding premoves F' D2. Not really an insertionn here.
> The last one is a bit harder. After the first two moves (D2 L') if you've marked the 5 unsolved pieces, you can see that they all are on the same layer. You can "break" the solve at this point by adding as premoves all the rest (D2 R2 B L2 R F2 R D’ R2 F R2 F D2). I think I've called this "reverse NISS" in my guide.



Grazie mille. Your help was very useful


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## tseitsei (Jul 30, 2015)

Lel! Got a 19 move fmc last night  pb by 5 moves. Will post scramble and solution here once I get home 

Scramble was just some normal scramble from qqtimer


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## Hssandwich (Jul 30, 2015)

I did an FMC

D F2 R2 D2 L2 U' R2 B' L2 D F R U L2 U' L F' D' B'


R' B L F' R' U' //2x2x2
D' L' D2 L2 D2 //2x2x3
B' L D' B D //pseudo F2L-1
U B' U' L' B' L //EOLS
R B R' B' F R' B R' B' R' B R2 F' //ZBLL
B' L2 //undo pseudo stuff

https://alg.cubing.net/?alg=R-_B_L_...R2_D2_L2_U-_R2_B-_L2_D_F_R_U_L2_U-_L_F-_D-_B-
How could I do better?


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## tseitsei (Jul 30, 2015)

Ok. Here goes.

Scramble (from qqtimer): U2 D' R' U L B U' F2 U2 L F2 B D2 F U2 L2 F2 B' R2 L2 D2

Solution:


Spoiler



D B U2 B2 R' B R U' R2 U R B' R2 L U' L' F' R F2

On inverse:
F2 R' F //pseudo 2x2x2
add premove D' to make it real 2x2x2
L U L' B // 2x2x3

Back to normal scramble with premoves B' L U' L' F' R F2
D // to correct the 2x2x3 block
B U2 B2 R' B R2 // AWSEOME MAGIC ENDING LEAVING ONLY A PAIR 3-CYCLE!!!
Lw' B' R2 B Lw B' R2 B // pair 3-cycle to solve the cube in 22 moves

BUT wait there is more:
If we write that 3-cycle without wide moves it becomes R' U' R2 U R B' R2 B
So now the first R' cancels with the R2
AND when we add our premoves to the end we also get B cancelling with B' resulting to a 19 move solution

D B U2 B2 R' B* [R2 R']* U' R2 U R B' R2 *[B B']* L U' L' F' R F2


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## G2013 (Jul 30, 2015)

tseitsei said:


> Ok. Here goes.
> 
> Scramble (from qqtimer): U2 D' R' U L B U' F2 U2 L F2 B D2 F U2 L2 F2 B' R2 L2 D2
> 
> ...



Amazing!!

Know that the optimal solution to that was 18 moves xD (B' D2 L2 B R' F2 L B2 U' B2 R2 F2 B R2 F R2 U' L2 (18f*))

btw, post number 404, not found...


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## tseitsei (Jul 30, 2015)

G2013 said:


> Amazing!!
> 
> Know that the optimal solution to that was 18 moves xD (B' D2 L2 B R' F2 L B2 U' B2 R2 F2 B R2 F R2 U' L2 (18f*))
> 
> btw, post number 404, not found...



Thanks! And damn, I was hoping for it to be optimal XD Still awesome though...


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## Z0chary (Jul 30, 2015)

Hey, I did my first FMC attempt yesterday. 36 moves. Is this good for a beginner to FMC? What can I do to improve my skeleton building? Thanks 

Scramble: B2 U' F2 D' R2 B2 F2 U' L2 R2 U B' U' F R F D2 L' U2 F2 U'

My solution: L R' U L' R' F D' B F R D' R' U' R D R' F R'F D B D B' D B D2 B2 D R' B R D B' D' B D2

L R' U L' R' F D' // 1x2x3 (7/7)
B F* [U'] F R' F // expand to 2x3x3 (6/13)
D B D B' D B D2 B2 D R' B R // F2L -1 (12/25)
D B' D' B D2 // Solved - 3c (5/30)


*Insertion: R D' R' U' R D R' 
8 move commutator w/ 2 canceled moves.

L R' U L' R' F D' B F R D' R' U' R D R' (U U') F R'F D B D B' D B D2 B2 D R' B R D B' D' B D2


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## porkynator (Jul 31, 2015)

I want to share with everybody a 27 HTM corner-first FMC solve I got a couple of days ago. I've found it pretty quickly during the 1 hour time limit and than I've "submitted" a 25 HTM "standard" solution. Anyway, it's nice and quite simple to understand even if you are not familiar with corner-first solves.
The scramble is taken from the German forum weekly competition, even though from which week since I haven't fetched it myself.

Scramble: U' F2 U F2 D R2 B2 D2 F2 D2 U' B' L U' B2 F2 R2 D L' R
Solution: L' F' D R D2 B D' U R' D2 F' D' R2 D R' D' R D U' B' D B' U' L2 D2 B2 U2

L' F' on normal scramble orient corners. Solving corners by orienting first and then permuting not only gets you (usually) short solutions, but makes it somehow easy to solve edges in-between the two steps. I haven't exploited this advantage now, however. Note how with these 2 moves I also make one 2x2x1 square and 3 CE pairs (we can say that there are 5 edges solved in this case).
Then I switch to inverse scramble with premoves F L. Then U2 B2 D2 L2 U B2 D' B2 solves the permutation of corners and one more edge.
There are now 6 edges that need to be cycled. The permutation can be broken into 2 disjoint cycles:

UB->BR(->BU)
LF->FR->LD->FD(->FL)

The two cycles are both odd (made up by an even number of pieces; yeah I know, the terminology is confusing) and "flipped", which means I can't solve them separately; actually, one of the two conditions (either odd or flipped) is enough. However, as you will see, if we allow centres to be unsolved, we can solve an odd permutation (especially 4-cycles) on its own.
Disregarding centres (if at the end they are not solved, you can insert M E M' E' or similar moves somewhere and cancel lots of them, usually), we can cycle 4 edges by setup + single slice move + anti-setup. Before the last 3 moves (B2 D' B2) it's easy enough to solve the cycle UB->BR->LF->FR. This solves two more edges (FR and BR) and leaves the other 4 in a 4-cycle, which we can then solve with a similar technique.
How to solve them?
Setup: B D' B
Permute: E (or U D' y' if you don't know which way is E and which E')
Anti-setup: B' D B'
And one move even cancel with the B2 D' B2. Pay attention when re-writing the solution without rotations or slice moves (you can use something like Uw' U if you prefer). The solution up to now looks like:

On inverse scramble with premoves F L
U2 B2 D2 L2 U //Partial CP (3 moves left undone)
B D' B U D' R' D R D' R2 //Leaves 4 corners and 4 centres

Then we can solve the last 8 pieces:

Setup: D F D2 R
Solve: E'
Anti-setup: R' D2 F' D'

Which turns out to look like:

D F D2 R U' D B' D2 R' D'

And the cube is solved. Thanks to Attila for sharing many of his corner-first solution


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## G2013 (Jul 31, 2015)

Amazing solve. I'd wish to be so good at FMC xD

By the way, where is the German Forum Weekly Competition?

EDIT: Nevermind


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## jpbrc (Jul 31, 2015)

My winning solutions from *World Championship*!

*1. Scramble:* L2 U' B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D U' L2 U2 B' R2 B' R B R' D' B' F2

U2 R' U2 R' // EO
B F2 U2 F // pseudo 2x2x3
(switch)
B L2 // 2x2x3
(switch)
B2 U' B2 U' B2 U' B2 U' B' U // L3C

Skeleton: U2 R' U2 * R' B F2 U2 F B2 U' B2 U' B2 U' B2 U' B' U L2 B'

*= U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R

*Solution: *U2 R' U' R' D2 R U' R' D2 B F2 U2 F B2 U' B2 U' B2 U' B2 U' B' U L2 B' *(25 Moves)*

*2. Scramble:* L2 U2 F' D2 B2 F' R2 B' U2 F' R D2 L D F' L U' B2 L' F2

(Inverse)
D' // Orient some edges
(switch)
L R D // EO
B2 U2 R' F // 2x2x2
(switch)
B2 F L' F' L' // F2L-1
R' B2 L B L' B2 R // L3C

Skeleton: L * R D B2 U2 R' F R' B2 L B' L' B2 R L F L F' B2 D

*= L' D2 L U2 L' D2 L U2

*Solution:* D2 L U2 L' D2 L U2 R D B2 U2 R' F R' B2 L B' L' B2 R L F L F' B2 D *(26 moves)*

*3. Scramble:* U2 B2 D2 L2 B2 U L2 D' L' F D' L F' D B' D2 F' R' U

B2 D2 B F R' L2 // Pseudo 2x2x3
(switch)
U' L' // 2x2x3
D2 L' D L // Pseudo F2L + EO
(switch)
B2 D2 // F2L
D B2 D' B' D B' D' // AB3E

B2 D2 B F R' L2 B2 D' B2 D' B' D * B' D' L' D' L D2 L U

*= D' B D' B' D' B' D' B D B D2 

*Solution:* B2 D2 B F R' L2 B2 D' B2 D2 B' D' B' D' B D B D2 B' D' L' D' L D2 L U *(26 moves)*

This solution could be 24 with optimal insertion, but i am terrible with edges insertion  So i am ok with the 26.

*Mean:* 25 26 26 = *25.67* *Sar!* 

I also did my first "official" avg12 = 27.10


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## APdRF (Jul 31, 2015)

Thank you for sharing! Congratulations!! I hope I can learn a lot from these 

Also, here's my 25 Oficial Solution from 3 weeks ago:

Scramble: D2 U' F2 L2 U2 F2 R2 D' R2 B' R2 D R B2 F L2 B' L' R B'

D F' D' R F' L2 - 2x2x2 (6/6)

B U F B' U2 - 3x2x2 (5/11)

F2 U F2 U' - F2L-1 (4/15)

Trying how to finish, I found this lucky ending:

R2 F R' F' R2 U' R' U - F2L (8/23)

U' R U R2 D' U' R U R' D - COLL with EPLL skip (10/33)

The funny thing is that the last 4 moves of the F2L pair cancel with the first 4 of the COLL, giving me a 25 move solution! (1 move away from NR):

D F' D' R F' L2 B U F B' U2 F2 U F2 U' R2 F R' F' D' U' R U R' D (25)

I posted an stopmotion video with a little surprise here: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54367-25-FMC-Solution-(Gernika-Open-2015)-surprise


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 31, 2015)

porkynator said:


> The permutation can be broken into 2 disjoint cycles:
> 
> UB->BR(->BU)
> LF->FR->LD->FD(->FL)
> ...



Perhaps I'm being a bit nitpicky, but when you talk about a cycle being even or odd, you should always be clear whether you're talking about the *permutation effect* of the cycle (which is what you intended) or the *length* of the cycle. What you are saying is that these two cycles, if considered as separate/individual permutations, are *odd permutations*.

In general, we talk about a cycle as being a component of a permutation. (And, of course, a permutation is called an *odd permutation* if, after being decomposed into cycles, the number of even-length cycles is an *odd number*.) When talking about a cycle by itself, it would be more proper to say the cycle represents an odd (or even) permutation, or that the permuation effect of the cycle is odd (or even).


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## G2013 (Jul 31, 2015)

I need help. I can't find a good way to continue this.
Scramble is from German Forum

Everything between () is made on inverse



Spoiler



Scramble: L' R D2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B2 U2 R2 U' L' R2 D2 R' U2 F D2 B' U'
Inverse: U B D2 F' U2 R D2 R2 L U R2 U2 B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 D2 R' L

(F2 D2 F2) //2x2x1
(R B' L2) //2x2x2
(U2 R') //Premoves
R' F' U2 R' U' F R2 //F2L-1 -> Premoves R U2

Overall the premoves are: R U2 L2 B R' F2 D2 F2



Thank you


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## KevinG (Jul 31, 2015)

G2013 said:


> Amazing solve. I'd wish to be so good at FMC xD
> 
> By the way, where is the German Forum Weekly Competition?
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind


There is also a weekly comp on speedcubers.de


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## G2013 (Jul 31, 2015)

KevinG said:


> There is also a weekly comp on speedcubers.de



Great, thanks for letting me know it


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## CyanSandwich (Aug 1, 2015)

Haha, got a 33 with a CFOP finish. Then I found a L3C solution with a 6 move insertion, But it was 34 moves.

Scramble: D2 U2 B' F' R2 U2 F R2 B' D2 F U' L' D2 R D F' U2 R2 D B


Spoiler



D' F' L' B L R B2 //2x2x2
F' D' L D2 L2 //2x2x3
D2 L' F' D' R F2 R' //F2L-1
D L D' L' //F2L
R D F D' F' D F D' F' R' //LL
33 moves

D' F' * L' B L R B2 //2x2x2
F' D' L' D L2 D L //2x2x3
F' D' F2 //F2L-1 (If someone can find a better continuation from here I'd really appreciate it)
D2 F D F' //F2L
B' L' D' L D B D'//L3C

*= F L F' R' F L' F' R

D' L F' R' F L' F' R L' B L R B2 F' D' L' D L2 D L F' D' F2 D2 F D F' B' L' D' L D B D'
34 moves

There was probably a better insertion further along though.



Edit: Cool, my first sub-30 (excluding the >1hour 23 mover)

Scramble: U' F' B' D2 R2 D L D F' D F' U2 D2 F' U2 B' R2 D2 B2 L2 U2
Solution: U R2 U F' L' D F2 U F' L' B R' U L' U R2 U' L U R' B R B' R' B2 R B' R' B (29)


Spoiler



U R2 U F' L' D F2 U F' L' //2x2x3 (added 3 extra moves)
B R' U2 * R //F2L-1
B R B' R' B2 R B' R' B //L3C (23)

RBW - YBR - BOY

* = U' L' U R2 U' L U R2 //cancels 2


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## Sebastien (Aug 1, 2015)

The solutions from my second (tied) 25.00 FMC WR Mean:

1st attempt: 26 moves (a good solve)



Spoiler



Scramble: F2 U B2 F2 L2 B2 D' R' D2 L2 U B2 L' F D2 R' B U2 R'
Inverse: R U2 B' R D2 F' L B2 U' L2 D2 R D B2 L2 F2 B2 U' F2

With premoves L' F2 on Inverse:
EO+2x2x3: R L' F' U D L D B L'
L4C: D2 B L' R' B R B' L

Skeleton: F2 B * R' B' R L B' D2 L B' # D' L' D' U' F L R'

* = B' R' F R B R' F' R
# = B D F' D' B' D F D'

Solution: F2 R' F R B R' F' B' R L B' D2 L D F' D' B' D F D2 L' D' U' F L R'

26 moves.



2nd attempt: 27 moves (a terrible solve...read below.)



Spoiler



Scramble: U R2 F2 U F2 R2 B2 R U' R' F2 L' D2 U' L D2 F2
Inverse: F2 D2 L' U D2 L F2 R U R' B2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 U'

EO already done! I found so many promising starts for this scramble, my scratch sheet was completely filled and it was hard to decide on what to look at in detail and I quite lost the focus while looking for a really amazing start. At about 48 minutes, I decided to finish the following L4C skeleton (16 moves). 

With premoves B2 U2 on Inverse:
2x2x3: R D R U' R D R' * U'
3C3E: D' R' D2 R2

L4C: * = R' D2 R D2

Skeleton for normal scramble: U2 B2 R2 D2 R U D' # R' D2 R2 D' R' U R' D' R'

But for some reason, I really messed up at this point, scrambled wrong a few times and lost about 3-4 minutes. So it took me quite I while to find:

# = D L D' R' D L' D' R

At this point I had only 2 minutes left. I did a very quick pass through, in which I wasn't able to find the one move cancelation that the IF has now revealed to me. Instead, I added an 8 mover at the beginning, to not end up with a DNF: 

Solution: F' D B2 D' F D B2 D' U2 B2 R2 D2 R U L D' R' D L' D R2 D' R' U R' D' R'

27 moves.

So indead, this should have been a 26 move solution with a better time management that I usually have. Well, maybe next time. 

Also I have a feeling that I missed a really good solution for this scramble. Jan, who had a different 27 had the same feeling. So please someone her do me a favour and humiliate me by finding the obvious sub25 solution for this scramble. 



3rd attempt: 22 moves (a first very lucky, then not so lucky solve)



Spoiler



Scramble: R F2 U2 R' D2 R' B2 L' U2 R' B' D B F' U2 L B L' U' R'
Inverse: R U L B' L' U2 F B' D' B R U2 L B2 R D2 R U2 F2 R'

Pseudo-2x2x2: U B2 R 
EO: F' *
Pseudo-F2L-1: D2 L D L' D' L' F2 
L3C (!!!): U' R' D' R

at this point I was really hoping for WR/ER single and a sub25 average, but apparently I got lucky enough for one solve:

* = F' R B' R' F R B R'

Solution: U B2 R F2 R B' R' F R B R' D2 L D L' D' L' F2 U' R' D' R

22 moves.

By the way, I also tried solving this with two insertion and ended up with 6+3 move cancelation, hence 22 moves again.


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## kinch2002 (Aug 1, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> The solutions from my second (tied) 25.00 FMC WR Mean:
> 
> 2nd attempt: 27 moves (a terrible solve...read below.)
> 
> ...



I found a skeleton with 3 minutes that gives me *25* (using IF).

B2 D2 R' L F2 L' U2 // 2x2x3 (+EO). I saw this by using B2 D2 R' U2 2x2x2 then seeing that I could solve another "orange F2L pair" with 5 moves starting with U2
D R D R2 D' R2 D' R' D' R2 // Pseudo F2L then correction, leaving 4 corners in 17 moves (1 worse than you, but nice insertions possible )

IF:
B2 D2 R' L [@1] F2 L' U2 D R D R2 D' R2 D' R' D' R2
Insert at @1: L' B' L F2 L' B L F2
After the 1st insertion: B2 D2 R' B' L F2 L' [@2] B U2 D R D R2 D' R2 D' R' D' R2
Insert at @2: L U' R U L' U' R' U

Will try for a bit more and post again if necessary.

Congrats btw


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## Cale S (Aug 2, 2015)

tied my official 32.33 mean at Nationals

somebody good seriously needs to try the 3rd scramble, I found a 13 move F2L...


Spoiler: 34



scramble: F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2

on inverse - R' U' R L' F2 // 2x2x2
R' U B L' B2 L // 2x2x3
on normal - R2 B' U R U' R' // to L3E + L3C

skeleton: R2 * B' U R U' R' L' B2 L B' U' R F2 L R' U R 
insert at *: [R U2 R', D'] // corner cycle

new skeleton: R' U2 R' D' R ** U2 R' D B' U R U' R' L' B2 L B' U' R F2 L R' U R 
insert at **: [R2, E' L E] // edge cycle

final solution: R' U2 R' D' R' U' D F D' U R2 D U' F' D' U' R' D B' U R U' R' L' B2 L B' U' R F2 L R' U R (34)

Insertion Finder got 27 with my skeleton :'(





Spoiler: 31



scramble: R2 D F2 L2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B U2 L' F D' U2 B' F' D2 L B2

on inverse - F' // form pair
on normal - L' D F' U' R' U R // lolterrible 2x2x2 I don't even know
D L2 B2 // 2x2x3
B D2 B' // form some pairs
on inverse - D L' D' L D2 // pseudo F2L - 1
L2 F L2 F' L2 D' L' D' // to L3C

skeleton: L' D F' U' R' U R D L2 B' D2 B' D L D L2 F L2 F' L2 D2 L' * D L D' F'
insert at *: [L2, D R D'] // L3C

final solution: L' D F' U' R' U R D L2 B' D2 B' D L D L2 F L2 F' L2 D2 L D R D' L2 D R' L D' F' (31)





Spoiler: 32



scramble: L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2

on inverse - R2 L' F2 L' // 2x2x2
F D' R' F // lolwtf pseudo F2L - 1 in 8 moves
on normal - R2 // fix pseudoness
on inverse - F L' F' L D2 F L' F' L D2 L D' L' D2 L D L' D2 // spam triggers to L3C

skeleton: R2 D2 L D' * L' D2 L D L' D2 L' F L F' D2 L' F L F2 R D F' L F2 L R2 
insert at *: [F' R F, L'] // L3C

final solution: R2 D2 L D' F' R F L' F' R F D2 L D L' D2 L' F L F' D2 L' F L F2 R D F' L F2 L R2 (32)


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## jpbrc (Aug 2, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> The solutions from my second (tied) 25.00 FMC WR Mean:
> 
> 2nd attempt: 27 moves (a terrible solve...read below.)
> 
> ...



Wow! Amazing scramble for my style 

10 minutes solution: 



Spoiler



Pre-move: B2 U2
(inverse) 
R2 U2 // pseudo 2x2x3-1c lol
R' D2 // pseudo-F2L-1-1c
(switch)
U2 B2 // F2L-1-1c
D R2 D' // F2L-1c
R D' R2 D R D' R D // AB3C

Skeleton: U2 B2 D R2 D' * R D' R2 D R D' R D' R U2 R2

*= D L' D' R' D L D' R

*Solution:* U2 B2 D R2 L' D' R' D L D' R2 D' R2 D R D' R D' R U2 R2* (21 moves)*

Maybe sub20 is possible! I'll try here


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## Julian (Aug 2, 2015)

Cale S said:


> Spoiler: 32
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Using your 9-move F2L-1:

(R2 L' F2 L')
(F D' R' F) R2
(D L' F L F' D2 F' D F)
(F L2 B' L' B L' F' D2)

for 25. Uncommon insert into easy short LL.


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## Cale S (Aug 2, 2015)

Julian said:


> Using your 9-move F2L-1:
> 
> (R2 L' F2 L')
> (F D' R' F) R2
> ...



Nice, better than the best result gotten at the comp

but I just found a 24 I could have gotten if I knew OLLCP

on normal - R2 F'
on inverse - R2 L' F2 L' F D' R' // F2L - 1
on normal - D' F D F' // F2L in 13 moves wut
L' B R2 F R' F2 R F' R2 B' L // LL

R2 F' D' F D F' L' B R2 F R' F2 R F' R2 B' L R D F' L F2 L R2 (24)


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## Marcel P (Aug 2, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> 2nd attempt: 27 moves (a terrible solve...read below.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The skeleton without your Sexy-Move/Sledgehammer Insertion is just a G-Perm. When you put the right G-Perm at the End of your solution you will get a 25 Move Solution:

On Inverse:
R D R U' R D R' U' D' R' D2 R2 (your skelton without premoves)
L' D R' D2 L D' R B F D2 F' B' (My feet G-Perm with 1 Cancellation)
B2 U2 (Undo Premoves)


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## Jan Bentlage (Aug 2, 2015)

So here is my 22 tied PB from N8W8:

Scramble: R F2 U2 R' D2 R' B2 L' U2 R' B' D B F' U2 L B L' U' R'

Inverse
EO: F2 L' F
switch
pseudo-blocks: R2 U R
switch
2x2x3: U' B2 U B2
switch
3C3E: D L2 D' L' D

skeleton: R2 U R (.) D L2 D' (-) L' D B2 U' B2 U F' L F2
(-) D L D L D L' D' L' D' L'
(.) R' D L' D' R D L D' (7 move cancelation!)

Solution: R2 U D L' D' R D2 L D L' D' L' D' L2 D B2 U' B2 U F' L F2 (22)


I still feel a bit embarressed, because I couldn't find a good solution on the second scramble. There was just too much to try ...


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## fabdabs1234 (Aug 2, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> 2nd attempt: 27 moves
> 
> 
> Scramble: U R2 F2 U F2 R2 B2 R U' R' F2 L' D2 U' L D2 F2



my 30 move solution (was pretty jammy, not much skill involved)

U' R2 U 1x2x2 block

D' R2 2x2x2 block

L' U' L' U2 2x2x3 block

L2 U' L2 U L U' L' U L' F2l

D U2 L' U L' U' L2 U L' U D' B2 OLL with pll skip


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## Sebastien (Aug 2, 2015)

jpbrc said:


> Pre-move: B2 U2
> (inverse)
> R2 U2 // pseudo 2x2x3-1c lol
> R' D2 // pseudo-F2L-1-1c
> ...





Marcel P said:


> The skeleton without your Sexy-Move/Sledgehammer Insertion is just a G-Perm. When you put the right G-Perm at the End of your solution you will get a 25 Move Solution:
> 
> On Inverse:
> R D R U' R D R' U' D' R' D2 R2 (your skelton without premoves)
> ...



Thanks, that's the humiliation I asked for. I even had this F2L-1c, but chose the wrong path apparently. I also kind of know these G-Perms, but I didn't have in mind that they had a U2 AUF. So yes, this is a sub25 fail...but likely not my first. Maybe next time.


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## 2180161 (Aug 3, 2015)

Scramble: U' B2 R2 U' F2 L2 F2 D L2 D2 L2 B' L2 U R B D2 B R2 B F2

Inverse: F2 B' R2 B' D2 B' R' U' L2 B L2 D2 L2 D' F2 L2 F2 U R2 B2 U

On inverse: U R' F psuedo 2x2

on original, premoves F' R U': R2 2x2

on inverse, premove R2: U R' F L2 B D B D2

On original, premoves D2 B' D' B' L2 F' R U': R2 L2 B L B' L' U B' U' 

On inverse, premoves: U B U' L B L' B' L2 R2: U R' F L2 B D B D2 B2 

Now, I cant seem to find any good continuations, original or inverse. What would you guys do? Also, how would I write my solution if this were it?


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## Torch (Aug 3, 2015)

My FMC results from US Nationals: 35, DNF, 31

Scramble #1: F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2



Spoiler



on inverse: 
R' U' R L' F2//2x2x2
R' B U' R' U2//2x2x3
B R' B2 R' *B*//F2L-1
on normal:
D' R D//F2L
on inverse: 
*B'* D B R B' R' D' R *B*//OLL
*B* R B' D2 L' F R' F' R F' L D2//PLL

Solution: D' R D' L' F R' F R F' L D2 B R' B2 R' D R B R' B' D' R B2 R B' U2 R U B' R F2 L R' U R (35)

I worked this scramble some more later that night and managed to find this:

on inverse: 
B' D L2//pseudo 2x2x2
on normal: 
L R2 D2 R D2//pseudo 2x2x3
on inverse:
D U' B2 U R B R'//L5C

Skeleton: L [2] R2 D2 R D2 R B' R' [1] U' B2 U D' L2 D' B

[1]: B' D' B U' B' D B U
[2]: L U' L' D L U L' D'

Solution: L2 U' L' D L U L' D' R2 D2 R D2 R B' R' B' D' B U' B' D B' U D' L2 D' B (27)



Scramble #2: R2 D F2 L2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B U2 L' F D' U2 B' F' D2 L B2



Spoiler



F L' D L' B' R2//2x2x2
on inverse:
F2 D F2 D//Pseudo 2x2x3
on normal:
D2 L F L' D F' D'//F2L-1 
F' L F2 L' F *L F' L'*//F2L
*L F L* D' L' D L' F L F2 L F2//LL

Solution: F L' D L' B' R2 D2 L F L' D F' D' F' L F2 L' F L2 D' L' D L' F L F2 L' F2 D' F2 D' F2 (32)

Couldn't write it down in time. 



Scramble #3: L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2



Spoiler



L F' R' F' R' F2 R' L2//2x2x3 + pair
on inverse: 
D2 B' L2 B//F2L-1
on normal: 
D2 F' D F D L B D' B' L' D//L3C

Skeleton: L F' R' [1] F' R' F2 R' L2 D2 F' D F D L B D' B' L' D B' L2 B D2

[1]: F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R

Solution: L F' R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R F' R' F2 R' L2 D2 F' D F D L B D' B' L' D B' L2 B D2 (31)

I only had 6-7 minutes left when I found that skeleton, so I couldn't find the optimal insertion, which cancelled one move


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## APdRF (Aug 3, 2015)

Scramble: F U F B2 L' B2 L2 B D F2 L2 B L2 B2 R2 D2 F U2 F2 U2

I found this ab4e: F D' U L U' L' F U' B2 U' D' L D2 L' U R' D R D2 R' D2 R F' D'

IF gives me 11 moves cancelations for insertions, but I can't find them by hand, can you help me?

Explanation: 

F D' U L U' L' F (EO) - 7
U' B2 (2x2x2) - 9
U' D' L D2 L' U (3x2x2) - 15
R' D R D2 R' D2 R F' D' (ab4e) - 24

That's the best I found, the scramble seems hard to me!


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## 2180161 (Aug 4, 2015)

APdRF said:


> Scramble: F U F B2 L' B2 L2 B D F2 L2 B L2 B2 R2 D2 F U2 F2 U2
> 
> I found this ab4e: F D' U L U' L' F U' B2 U' D' L D2 L' U R' D R D2 R' D2 R F' D'
> 
> ...



I couldn't find any (I'm not good at FMC tho), but why do you do ab4e, rather than ab3c?

also, why did you break your eo?


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## Joey VOV (Aug 4, 2015)

I failed all 3 attempts at nats, so I went back to try the 3rd scramble because it was so nice, and I got this. Very disappointed I didn't see this then.

Scramble: L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2
Inverse Scramble: L2 F' U2 B L' B' R' L U2 F' L D F2 L2 D' F2 R2 L2

On Inverse

R D2 R' L' D2 R2 L' D' R' / pseudo F2L-1 premove R2 (9+1)
B R D R' D' B' D2 / to L5C (16+1)

Skeleton: R2 D2 B D R D'^ R' B' R D L R2 D2 L R D2 R'
Insert at ^: D L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R2

updated skeleton: R2 D2 B* D R L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R B' R D L R2 D2 L R D2 R'
Insert at *: B L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R2

Final Solution: R2 D2 B2 L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R2 D R L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R B' R D L R2 D2 L R D2 R' (29)


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## APdRF (Aug 4, 2015)

2180161 said:


> I couldn't find any (I'm not good at FMC tho), but why do you do ab4e, rather than ab3c?
> 
> also, why did you break your eo?



I was just trying after I found nothing good, and this seemed to me like it could be a good finish. I broke the EO because that seemed a good price to pay, but I don't know if this finish is worth it and that's the reason I'm asking for help


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## Torch (Aug 4, 2015)

Here's my solution from the ongoing Speedsolving weekly comp:




Spoiler



Scramble: L2 F2 U' B2 U L2 U F2 L2 D U2 L B' R D' R2 U' R' F D R'

F D R' B'//2x2x2
B U' B' R2 U R U2//2x2x3
U F2 U' F' U F2 U'//F2L-1
D R2 D' R'//L4C

Skeleton: F D R' U' B' R2 U R U' F2 [2] U' F U [1] F2 U' D R2 D' R'

[1]: U' B U F2 U B' U F2
[2]: F' U B2 U' F U B2 U'

Solution: F D R' U' B' R2 U R U' F U B2 U' F U B2 U2 F B U F2 U' B' D R2 D' R' (27)

Insertion finder says 25 was optimal. How do you FMC experts go about L4C insertions?


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## tseitsei (Aug 4, 2015)

22 move solution for ongoing berkeley weekly FMC  Second best ever



Spoiler



scramble: F2 U' D2 R F2 D' U' F R' L2 B R2 D F' B L' D2 F' L' D

on inverse:
U' B L R2 F' D // 6-move pseudo F2L-1 !!!!!!!!

I found nothing good with premoves R2 F' so I tried R' F' instead and found (still on inverse)
R' U F' U' F U' R U2 R' U // leave 3C at 16-moves
R' F' // add premoves to the end 18-moves all but 3 corners

So skeleteon on normal:
F R [1] U' R U2 R' U F' U F U' R D' F R2 L' B' U

[1]=R' F' L' F R F' L F // 4-moves cancel for 22-move total solution 

With a start that awesome there is probably even better ending to be found but I'm quite happy with this


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## vcuber13 (Aug 4, 2015)

My solves from US Nationals:



Spoiler: Solve 1 (37)



Scramble:
F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2

On inverse:
L2 B' D L2 R' B L' // 7 // 2x2x2
R' F2 R2 F' Premove: F' // 12 // 2x2x3
B R B' // 15 // EO
D R D2 R D2 R2 // 21 // F2L-1
Switch:
R' D' R D' R' D' R D // 29 // AB3C

Skeleton:
F R' D' R D' R' # D' R D R2 D2 R' D2 R' D' B R' B' F R2 F2 R L B' R L2 D' B L2 *
Me: * [D', B U2 B'] Ran out of time. 0 Cancel, 37.
IF: # [R, D L D'] 5 Cancel, 32.





Spoiler: Solve 2 (37)



Scramble:
R2 D F2 L2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B U2 L' F D' U2 B' F' D2 L B2

On normal:
D' R2 // 2 // 2 pairs
D' B' D' B L' B2 F R2 // 10 // 2x2x3
D2 L D L' D2 // 15 // F2L-1
F' D' F2 D F // 20 // Tripod
F' R F R' // 24-2 // AB4C

Skeleton:
D' $ * R2 D' B' # D' B L' B2 F R2 D2 L D L' D2 F' D' F2 D R F R'
Me: * [L2, B R' B'], $ [D2, B' U' B] 1 Cancel, 37.
IF: # [B' U B, D], & [L, D' R2 D] 7 Cancel, 31.





Spoiler: Solve 3 (32)



Scramble:
L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2

On normal:
L F' R' F' R' F2 R' // 7 // 2x2x3
Switch:
L' D2 L D2 L Premove: L2 // 13 // F2L-1
F' D' F L' F L F' // 20 // F2L
L' D R D' L D' R' D' R D' R' D' // 32 // Done

Solution:
L F' R' F' R' F2 R' L2 D R D R' D R D L' D R' D' L F L' F' L F' D F L' D2 L' D2 L
32.


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## h2f (Aug 6, 2015)

My 23 solve from Weekly Competition: 
Scramble: L2 F2 U' B2 U L2 U F2 L2 D U2 L B' R D' R2 U' R' F D R'

I try with Roux. First block:
y' B' r2 R' D' U F' // (6)

Next I tried to make block 2x2x2 and 2x2x3:
y' B' r2 R' D' // (4)
L' U' L r2 F' U2 F2 U' F R // 10/14
I got f2l-1. 

I rewrote it to remove wide moves:
y' B L2 R' U' // 2x2x1
L' D L' // 2x2x2
F' U2 // 2x2x3
F2 U' // F2L - 1

I've noticed another easy block:
y' B L2 R' U' //2x2x1 (4)
L' D' L' // 2x2x2 (3/7)
F' U2 // 2x2x3 (2/9)
*B' R2 B //F2L-1 (3/12)* new block 2x2x1
F2 U' F R// (4/16)

And finished it with OLL and PLL. 
y2 r U R' U R U2 r' U // (8/24) PLL skip.

I rewrote OLL to remove rotation and noticed 1 move cancelation.

y' B L2 R' U' /2x2x1 (4)
L' D' L' / 2x2x2 (3/7)
F' U2 / 2x2x3 (2/9)
B' R2 B /F2L-1 (3/12)
F2 U' F *R* / (4/16)
*R* B L' B L B2 R' U // OLL (7/23).

Solution: R B2 F' U' B' D' B' L' U2 R' F2 R L2 U' L F2 R B' R B R2 F' U
Alg.cubing.net

It's a lucky solve for me.


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## G2013 (Aug 6, 2015)

I think I'm the only one who can't find a good continuation to that scramble... There are blocks everywhere but I can't find a way to use them


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## Cale S (Aug 10, 2015)

22 move solution for weekly FMC 


Spoiler



Scramble: B2 L' D F2 R2 D2 F' B2 U R2 L' D F2 U B F2 R' D L2 B

on inverse - U2 F2 U' L' B' U // 2x2x3
B D B2 L' B // F2L - 1 + EO
on normal: L' D' L D L' D' L' D L' // to L3C

skeleton: L' D' L D L' D' L' D L' B' L B2 D' * B' U' B L U F2 U2
insert at *: [D, B' U B] // L3C

Final Solution: L' D' L D L' D' L' D L' B' L B U B D' B' U2 B L U F2 U2 (22)


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## Attila (Aug 10, 2015)

Last weekly scramble: 
F2 U' D2 R F2 D' U' F R' L2 B R2 D F' B L' D2 F' L' D
I found a 20 move skeleton on inverse:
R’ D F’
L U2 R’ D2
R’ F R L’ U
L2 B’ R2 L2 F L2 D2 F2 all but 6 centres

I tried in vain to find a decent insertion, this time failed.
Anyone does an attempt ?


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## porkynator (Aug 10, 2015)

Attila said:


> Last weekly scramble:
> F2 U' D2 R F2 D' U' F R' L2 B R2 D F' B L' D2 F' L' D
> I found a 20 move skeleton on inverse:
> R’ D F’
> ...



The best I could find:

R’ D F’
L U2 R’ D2
R’ F R L’ U
L2 B’ R2 L2 * F L2 D2 F2 

* = M S M' S'

3 moves cancel, 25 total.


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## okayama (Aug 10, 2015)

porkynator said:


> Attila said:
> 
> 
> > Last weekly scramble:
> ...



R' D F'
L U2 R' D2
R' (R L' U' D F B' L' R) R D U' B
U2 L' D2 U2 R U2 F2 R2

same, 25 moves


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## Attila (Aug 10, 2015)

okayama said:


> R' D F'
> L U2 R' D2
> R' (R L' U' D F B' L' R) R D U' B
> U2 L' D2 U2 R U2 F2 R2
> ...



Thanks for yours help 
I was hoping about 22-23 total moves, and I was disappointed, but it seems, not possible much more cancellation.


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## Ninja Storm (Aug 10, 2015)

1st scramble @ Nats and my first sub30!

F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2

B2 U' B' U //setup for 2x2x3 4/4
F2 R F2 D' R' //2x2x3 5/9
B' L' B //F2L-1 3/12
This is where things get a little weird. I couldn't see any further into red without having to use a ton of moves, but I saw that the white/blue pair could be solved without messing up the block, so I thought, "What the hell, I'll try it." It worked!

L2 F L F' L' D' L2 D L'//9/21

One move cancelled with the comm at the end, so I got a 29!

I know that the optimal insertion is likely not at the end, but I still suck at them and don't really know where I should've done it. I also had no extra stickers or other FMC material, so yeah :/


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## Torch (Aug 10, 2015)

Ninja Storm said:


> 1st scramble @ Nats and my first sub30!
> 
> F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2
> 
> ...



Just in case you didn't know, the Insertion Finder will find the optimal insertions for a skeleton. Believe it or not, 29 actually was optimal for that skeleton.


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## billythekidd (Aug 10, 2015)

Hi, I started practising FMC a few days ago, and I am having some troubles with the final stage of the skeleton that comes after f2l-1 and the eo. Can someone please find a good end for my skeleton? insertions are not needed.
scramble: D L2 U' L2 U2 L2 U B2 D R2 U R2 L' D' U' B F U' R D2 F
2x2x2: y2 F2 u U2 L2 U L
2x2x3: z' y' L2 F' U' F' L2
F2L-1: U' L U F2 U' L'
solve skeleton: y' R U' R' U' R U R' U
z' y' [U' L2 U , R2]
x2 R2 [R U R', D2] R2 (1 move cancel)
=> 42 moves grrrrr

please answer this post, I spent 15 minutes writing this


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## Memphis3000 (Aug 11, 2015)

billythekidd said:


> Hi, I started practising FMC a few days ago, and I am having some troubles with the final stage of the skeleton that comes after f2l-1 and the eo. Can someone please find a good end for my skeleton? insertions are not needed.
> scramble: D L2 U' L2 U2 L2 U B2 D R2 U R2 L' D' U' B F U' R D2 F
> 2x2x2: y2 F2 u U2 L2 U L
> 2x2x3: z' y' L2 F' U' F' L2
> ...



Please don't use rotations, it makes it way more confusing


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## TheDubDubJr (Aug 11, 2015)

Question for other World Class FMCers. 

How do you normally go about EO first vs Blockbuilding first and when do you look one vs the other?
Is it scramble dependent? Do you always do one then if you don't find anything you like, you look at the other? How long do you look at one before looking into the other? What is your limit on moves to EO?

Usually I do Blockbuilding first and if I don't see anything I like, I go to looking at EO first. But when I finally get around to looking at EO, about 20-30min have already passed and I probably have a backup skeleton written down. And there are also many solves (probably half) that I don't even look at EO. And I really only look at 4move EOs, then most of the time, I skip over the ones that don't make/preserve pairs.


I do Skype FMC a lot with Ryan D, Kit C and Mark B, and this is something I usually think about because they don't use EO that much but I sometimes do and I also see many solutions from you guys with EO first.


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## Tanzer (Aug 11, 2015)

*First Sub 20 FMC?*

When I first did this scramble I got a full step 7.21 with an N perm, so I decided to break it down.

7.21 L2 F D2 B' D2 R2 B' R2 B' D2 L B2 F R' D R2 F2 D2 U' L 

z2 F' D' R' D' U R' L' (2x2x3) [7]
U y L' U L2 F' L' F R U' R' U' [11]

I broke this down a bunch of different ways and found a few OLL skips and one PLL skip, but I feel like with the solution I currently have, there could be an insertion or something done to solve it to get 25 or something.

Anyone care to provide some assistance? 7 move 2x2x3 block has serious potential.


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## not_kevin (Aug 11, 2015)

Okay, finally had some time to write up my winning solutions to Nats 2015 FMC. Hopefully everything's readable  Let me know if there's some way to improve the layout! I modeled it largely off of Okayama-san's style.

1st scramble: F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2
1st inverse: L2 R F2 D2 L2 U2 L' D2 B L U2 F' U' B L F R F2
1st solution: L R D2 R2 D2 R2 U' B U R' B2 R B2 R2 B D B D' B R' B' R D' L2 D' B (26 moves)


Spoiler



My first skeleton (17 to 4 corners): L R2 D2 R D2 F' R B' R' U' B2 U F D' L2 D' B
On inverse:
pseudo 2x2x2: B' D L2 // [3/3]

Switch to normal with premove D' L2 D' B:
2x2x2: L // [1/5]
2x2x3 with premove: R2 D2 R D2 // [4/9]
pseudo-F2L - 1: F' // [1/10]
AB4C: R B R' U' B2 U F // [7/17]
Insertion Finder says cancelling 6 is optimal, for a 27: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7da8379d1874134fd8ec062d88982887.cube

However, being sillie and doing some dumb stuff gave me some luck:
On inverse:
pseudo 2x2x2: B' D L2 // [3/3]

Switch to normal (premoves L2 D' B):
2x2x2: L // [1/4]
pseudo 2x2x3: R D2 R2 D2 // [4/8]
"eo" (ooops): R2 U' B U // [4/12]
blockbuild to tripod: R' B2 R B2 R2 B2 // [6/18]
solve tripod: B' D B D' B R' B' R D' // [8/26]

The first time I got this, I thought I had gotten yet another 27, but realized I didn't cancel the B2 + B' in the tripod step. First sub-27, and therefore the first official FMC solve that beat my first official FMC solve 

Meanwhile, Tim Wong was too much of a philosopher for me:
2x2x2: B L F2 L' U F2 // [6/6]
cross: B // [1/7]
start 2x-cross: R D' R' D // [4/11]
F2L-1: L B' L' D B // [5/16]
lel: F' D2 F D' F' D F // [7/23]



2nd scramble: R2 D F2 L2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B U2 L' F D' U2 B' F' D2 L B2
2nd inverse: B2 L' D2 F B U2 D F' L U2 B' U F2 B2 D R2 L2 F2 D' R2
2nd solution: D B' L B2 L' B' L B' L2 B2 F' L' F L' F' L2 F L2 U' L' U D2 L' B' L' D2 F2 U F' L D R2 F' (33 moves)


Spoiler



Wow, this scramble was tough. I basically spent all my time trying to bash a single path into something that was okay, and took pretty much the full hour coming up with this sillie solution.

On inverse:
literally the only move that makes a ce pair: F // [1/1]
square: R2 D' // [2/3]
2x2x2: L' F U' F2 // [4/7]
pseudo 2x2x3: D2 L B L D2 // [5/12]
"ZZ-d": U' L U // [3/15]

Switch to normal with premoves U' L' U D2 L' B' L' D2 F2 U F' L D R2 F':
fix 2x2x3: D // [1/16]
F2L: B' L B2 L' B' L B' L2 B2 // [9/25]
LL: F' L' F L' F' L2 F L2 // [8/33]



3rd scramble: L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2
3rd inverse: L2 F' U2 B L' B' R' L U2 F' L D F2 L2 D' F2 R2 L2
3rd solution: B' D2 B D F' D2 F D R F L' F' L' R2 B' R F2 R' B R F2 D2 R2 D2 R D (26 moves)


Spoiler



Wow, what a scramble. My Saturday evening was Square-1 finals into FMC attempt 3, and I was first seed in both at the time; if I didn't choke in Square-1 and the last scramble was fairly easy, there would be a very good chance I walk away from Nats with two championships. If I got too nervous in Square-1 and the last scramble was like the second scramble, then I would lose to Kit (who was tied in sum up to now). Imagine my pleasant shock when I see this thing 

I found this skeleton first.

On inverse:
square: D' R' D2 // [3/3]
2x-cross: R2 D2 L2 // [6/6]

Switch to normal with premoves L2 D2 R2 D2 R D:
F2L-1: B' R2 B // [3/9]
F2L: D F' D' F // [4/13]
AB3C: F' D' F D R F L' F' L R' [7/20]

But wait, there's more - the L at the end actually cancels with the L2 premove, giving a 19 to AB3C:
B' D2 B D F' D2 F D R F L' F' L' (*) R' D2 R2 D2 R D // [19]
(*): [R' B' R, F2] (cancels 1 - alas, optimal, with only one other place to insert a 1-move cancel)

I also tried an ending of using F' D' F D F L' F' L for ELL (leaving 3 twisted corners) - the optimal cancellation there, unsurprisingly, was to do the OLL for the 19-move skeleton.

I also found the following skeleton in the first ~30 minutes:
On inverse:
square: D' R' D2 // [3/3]
pseudo 2x2x3: R2 D2 L' // [6/6]

Switch to normal with premoves L D2 R2 D2 R D:
pseudo F2L-1: B' D2 B // [3/9]
EO, preserve blocks: D' L // [2/11]
AB4C: B D2 B' D' // [4/15]

Skeleton: B' D2 (1) B D' L B D2 B' D' L D2 R2 D2 R D

So, about 30 minutes in, I had these two nice skeletons. Because I was fairly unpracticed at 4-corners, I decided to do the ab3c one first, and then bash at the other for a while. With about ten minutes left, I found (1):
(1) [D F D', B] - cancels 4
So, my new skeleton was
B' D' F D' B (2) D F' D2 L B D2 B' D' L D2 R2 D2 R D // [19]

However, I had a lot of trouble writing this down right, so by the time I finally wrote down the right skeleton, I had around 5 minutes left. I knew that I just needed a comm that cancelled at least 2, and I would beat my current 26 - and with about a minute left, I found (2):
(2): [B' L2 B, R2] - cancels 2
However, after checking the clock, I decided that it was better if I played it safe and wrote down my 26, rather than hurriedly transcribe my new 25 onto the sheet and hope that it was written correctly. With 30 seconds left, I started writing my solution, but realized that I wasn't going to make it - with about 2 seconds left and 5 moves to go on the official answer sheet, I stopped and circled my 26 (which I had conveniently written nicely at the bottom of my scratch paper earlier) right before time. Later, I ran the skeleton through IF, and it returned with a 24: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/4cbd49a5381739cb1ad7645f1c1f8885.cube

Later, I also found the following skeleton, with an optimal 11-move cancel insertion (!!!):
On inverse:
square: D' R' D2 // [3/3]
2x-cross: R2 D2 L2 // [6/6]
F2L-1: B2 U' L2 U B2 // [5/11]
tripod: L D L' // [3/14]
AB2C: F2 R F R' F D' // [6/20]

Skeleton: D F' R [@1] F' R' F2 L D' L' B2 U' L2 U B2 L2 D2 R2 D2 R D
Insert at @1: L' F' R' F L F' R F (cancels 5)
After the 1st insertion: D F' R L' F' R' F L F L D' L' B2 U' L2 U [@2] B2 L2 D2 R2 D2 R D
Insert at @2: U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U R2 (cancels 6)
Fewest moves: 25. 11 moves cancelled
The final solution: D F' R L' F' R' F L F L D' L' B2 R2 U' L2 U R2 B2 L2 D2 R2 D2 R D


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## porkynator (Aug 11, 2015)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Question for other World Class FMCers.
> 
> How do you normally go about EO first vs Blockbuilding first and when do you look one vs the other?
> Is it scramble dependent? Do you always do one then if you don't find anything you like, you look at the other? How long do you look at one before looking into the other? What is your limit on moves to EO?
> ...



This is an interesting topic.

Months ago I saw lots of EO first solve by world class FMCers (in particular Sébastien and Batista), so I decided to try this approach more often. It seems very effective.

At the moment, I often check for EO (3 orientations, on both normal and inverse scramble) first, but I only go for it if it is either very short (0-3 moves) or if is short (4-5 moves) but it also leaves a good blockbuilding continuation, possibly a few blocks (pairs, squares, a 2x2x2) already solved.
In case I don't start with EO, I still try to solve it very early in the solve, after the 2x2x2 or 2x2x3 steps (if there are such steps).

I'd love to hear other opinions about it, especially from the previously mentioned world champion and world record holder


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## Sebastien (Aug 11, 2015)

Hey there. I'm afraid that a lot of these question don't really have a clear answer. 

I would definitely say that what I start with is scramble-dependent. I usually check for promising starts, which might be an easy EO, simple (non-EO-related) block building or even EO-block building. My focus is completely on the result, not on the techniques that I use from my toolkit.

As for the amount of moves, there is no clear limit in my opinion. An EO with 6 moves that results in tons of block can easily turn out to be way better than a 2 move EO that leaves you without any blocks.

The time I spend on the individual starts is also extremely scramble-dependent. For example, if I have a scramble with lots of promising EO starts and no nice blocks to build first, I might not look at any block building starts at all.

As for when to do EO after starting with simple blockbuilding, this is quite the same: I simply can't tell. I always go for what looks best/yield in a nice result, so I might do EO early, late, or maybe even not at all.


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## Joey VOV (Aug 15, 2015)

edge insertions 
Scramble: L2 F2 D2 L2 U' R2 U B2 L2 R2 U2 L' U' L2 B' F2 L2 R2 U' R2 B
(this was nearly linear too wtf)
on normal: Premoves D L2 U' F
B' U' B U' / F2L -2 (8)
L' F L U F U' / F2L -1 (14)
F' D F' D' / TO L3E (18)

Skeleton: B' U' B U' L' F L U F U' F' D F' L2 U' F 

Skeleton optimal was 23, but I am still getting used to corner insertions so I couldn't even try to deal with this. Found a 30 using a different approach.


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## EMI (Aug 15, 2015)

Don't know where to post this...
PB by 1.5 moves, my old PB was during the last holidays, this one is from the last three or four weeks 

Average of 50: 27.45

27.00, 26.00, 29.00, (24.00), 25.00, 29.00, (DNF), 28.00, 27.00, 25.00, 26.00, 26.00, 26.00, 30.00, 27.00, 25.00, 28.00, 28.00, 28.00, 28.00, 29.00, 29.00, 28.00, 27.00, 27.00, 30.00, (24.00), 28.00, 25.00, 30.00, 27.00, 31.00, 30.00, 25.00, (DNF), 27.00, 24.00, 26.00, 27.00, 30.00, 26.00, 28.00, (DNF), 28.00, 26.00, 29.00, 26.00, 28.00, 29.00, (23.00)

Edit: Rolled in another 23! This one was quite interesting, there is probably something better than a 23.



Spoiler: Interesting 23



Scramble: F U2 B' L2 D' R2 L2 U R' B2 D2 R2 U2 R2 B' U2 B' R2 L2 D2
EO: F U2 R'
Insane luck: D F2 U R2 (One move away from 2x2x3+EO+many blocks, in fact it is a different EO than originally made ^^)

Now, how do we continue from there? There are multiple things:
(1) D L2 F' leaves two edges and four corners in 10.
(2) L2 D for a pseudo F2L-1 in 9 with EO still solved
(3) Switch to inverse, then L2 D F - similarly F2L-1 in 10 with EO
(4) F' L2 F L2 D Pseudo-F2L with EO in 12.

The first thing I tried was inserting the 10 move skeleton (option (1)). And indeed there is a good way to do that:
Skeleton: F U2 R' D F2 U R2 @ D L2 F'
@ = R F R' F2 R F R' F
leaves three corners in 17 moves. Unfortunately I found "only" a 24 on that.
Another thing you could do with this skeleton is
@ = F2 R F' R' F'
which leaves two corners and two edges in 15, but nothing close to 24 there.

In the end, I found this: Use option (4) as a complete skeleton (four corners and three edges in 13 moves):
Skeleton: F U2 R' D F2 U R2 F' L2 F # L2 D L2
# = D2 F' U' F U D2
This leaves three corners in 19. Luckily, with this skeleton there is a much better corner insertion:
F U2 R' D F2 U R2 F' L2 F D2 F' U' F + U D2 L2 D L2
+ = F' U' B' U F U' B U

Total: F U2 R' D F2 U R2 F' L2 F D2 F' U2 B' U F U' B U2 D2 L2 D L2 (23)



Updated PBs therefore:

Average of 5 PB: 25.67
26.00, 28.00, (29.00), (23.00), 23.00

Tied Mean of 3 PB: 25.00
29.00, 23.00, 23.00

Average of 50 PB: 27.39

Edit 2: Rolled in a 27, so

Mean of 3 PB: 24.33
23.00, 23.00, 27.00

Edit 3:
Tied average of 12 PB: 26.60
(23.00), 23.00, 27.00, 30.00, 27.00, 25.00, (32.00), 26.00, 27.00, 31.00, 25.00, 25.00


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## verdito (Aug 18, 2015)

D2 L' D2 L' D2 U2 L U2 L2 B' R U2 B D' R' B2 U F2 U F

got this scramble in a comp this weekend
i was the favorite for winning the event but unfortunately i ended up DNFing, couldn't find a decent solution despite a good start (2x2x3 in 8, with only 2 misoriented edges)

winning solution was 31 with CFOP, which is also NR in my country

using that good start today i found a 27 moves solution, bad decisions in comp i guess, probably beacuse of lack of experience in competition FMC, anyway

F'L'B' // pseudo-2x2
F'D2L // pseudo-2x2x3
F2LR' // F2L-2
BRD'R' // pseudo F2L-1
BLB*L*' // pseudo F2L
*L*BL'BLB'L'B'L'DLD // OLL


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## Ranzha (Aug 20, 2015)

Any ideas on a continuation?

Scramble: U2 L2 U2 L2 F D2 B' F2 D2 L2 F' D' F' R D2 L' D U R U2 R2

B D L' B D2 // 222
F2 L F U2 // 223
F' D F D' L2 // F2L-1


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## EMI (Aug 20, 2015)

A kind of cool solve:
Scramble: U' R2 U B2 D' F2 L2 R2 D' R2 D2 L' D' L' U R2 U' F R2 B2
It's kind of stupid that inverting the last three moves solves EO, but I think as a three move EO is quite easy to see, that would be fine in an official attempt. (?)
I did try all four 3 move EOs though.

EO: B2 R2 F
2x2x2: U F2 L F2 L2
2x2x3: U' R2 U F2
Switch, Pseudo-F2L-1: D2 R D2 R2
Pseudo-F2L: D' R D R'
Now, instead of solving the edges, I noticed there is only an H-perm left. It cancels seven out of ten moves!
Rest: D' B2 F2 U2 L' U2 B2 F2

Total: B2 R2 F U F2 L F2 L2 U' R2 U B2 U2 L U2 F2 B2 D R D' R' D R2 D2 R' D2 (26)


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## obelisk477 (Aug 20, 2015)

Why is there no weekly FMC this week?


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## G2013 (Aug 20, 2015)

verdito said:


> D2 L' D2 L' D2 U2 L U2 L2 B' R U2 B D' R' B2 U F2 U F
> 
> got this scramble in a comp this weekend
> i was the favorite for winning the event but unfortunately i ended up DNFing, couldn't find a decent solution despite a good start (2x2x3 in 8, with only 2 misoriented edges)
> ...



nooooooooooooooooo DNF???? That's bad.....

Finola said some time ago that "he didn't even practice FMC"... now he has the NR??? with CFOP?!?!?!?!

Finola dijo hace un tiempo que "ni practicaba fewest"... ahora tiene el NR??? con CFOP!?!?!!?

PD: Cuándo va a haber otra competencia con fewest? Y dónde? (si es que se sabe)

PS: Yes, no scramble this week. What's that? :S


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## porkynator (Aug 21, 2015)

With this week's scramble I got into the "Free Insertion Club":


Spoiler



Scramble: U2 L R2 U' F' B2 U' R2 L2 U2 R' L2 B D' L2 B2 R' F L2 D2
Solution: D' F U F' D F U' F2 L2 U2 R F' R2 F' U F B U2 B' D B D F U F D F2 (27 HTM)

F' L2 U2 R F' //EO + square (5/5)
(F U' F D' F2 D' B' D') //2x2x3 (8/13)
(B U2 B' F' U' F R2) //All but 5 corners (7/20)

Skeleton: + F' L2 U2 R F' R2 F' U F B U2 B' D B D F2 * D F' U F'
* = F' U F D F' U' F D' //Free insertion!
+ = D' F U F' D F U' F'


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## cuBerBruce (Aug 21, 2015)

porkynator said:


> With this week's scramble I got into the "Free Insertion Club":



Welcome!


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## Cale S (Aug 22, 2015)

Ranzha said:


> Any ideas on a continuation?
> 
> Scramble: U2 L2 U2 L2 F D2 B' F2 D2 L2 F' D' F' R D2 L' D U R U2 R2
> 
> ...





Spoiler



L' F2 L F2 D // form pairs
R F2 R' // pseudo F2L 
L' D2 L' U' R F2 R' U L2 D2 F' // tripod LL finish

32 moves total


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## okayama (Aug 22, 2015)

My winning solutions from Cube Camp in Kanazawa 2015.

1st scramble: D2 B' U R' U R D R2 L U' R' F2 R2 B R2 U2 B U2 R2
1st solution: B' U2 F2 U F' U' F2 U D F' U' F D' L F' L F2 L F' U L' U2 L' F L2 D2 L2 D' U2 R' (30 moves)


Spoiler



(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: U2 B

2x2x2 block: R U2 D L2 D2
2x2x3 block: L2 F' L U2 L U'
All but 2c2e: F L' F2 L' F L'
Swap 2c2e: D F' U F D' U' F2 U F U' F2
Correction: U2 B

I didn't have enough time to search 2c2e insertion. 



2nd scramble: D2 R2 F' U2 F' D2 B D2 L2 F U L' D2 L' U' B2 D2 L' D' L2
2nd solution: D L2 F B2 U2 F' D R' F2 D' R F' U2 L' B R' B' R B' L U2 R B R' B' D' R' D F2 (29 moves)


Spoiler



15 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: F2

2x2x1 block: D L2 F
2x2x2 block: B2 U2
F2L minus 1 slot: F' D R' F2 D' F'

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F D F2 R D' F U2 B2 F' L2 D'

F2L minus 1 slot: F2
Orient edges: D' R D
All but 3c3e: B R B' R'
G-perm: U2 L' B R' B R B' L U2 F R' F'
Correction: F D F2 R D' F U2 B2 F' L2 D'

In the remaining time, I stuck to the start

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F2 D'

Orient edges: R F R
2x2x2 block: U2 F' D2 L2
F2L minus 1 slot: R2 U F2 U2 R2

but I couldn't find any good continuation. 



3rd scramble: F R2 B U L B' U2 R' B D' B2 U2 D' F2 B2 D' B2 R2 D2 R2
3rd solution: R' L F L' F' L F U L2 U' B' U B L' F2 L2 F' L2 B D' F D B D' F' D2 B' D2 U' R' L2 (31 moves)


Spoiler



[1st attempt]
Pre-scramble: L' B2

2x2x2 block: D U' B'
2x2x3 block: R D F D' F2

[2nd attempt]
Pre-scramble: D2

1st square: U D L2 B
2nd square: D'
2x2x3 block: F R' D R2 F2

[3rd attempt]
(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: R

2x2x1 block: L2 R U
2x2x2 block: D2 B D' * B2
More square: L2 F L2
More square: F2 L B' U' B
More square: U L2 U'
All but 3 corners: F' L' F L F' L'
Correction: R'

Insert at *: D' F D B' D' F' D B

Hmm...



Not Sub 30 mean, bad.


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## not_kevin (Aug 23, 2015)

Based on some other discussions in other forums, I tried to reconstruct Vincent Sheu's FMC WR from US Nats 2014. I currently only have the first, but I'll update this post with all 3 if I'm able to get it.

Scramble 1: L2 F L2 R2 B2 R2 B' R2 F U2 L2 D B2 U' F' L' B2 R' U2 L2
Solution 1: L R B' D' B2 D2 F' R U' R' U' R' F' U F R' U2 R U' R U2 R' (22 moves)



Spoiler: solution



L R B' D' B2 D2 F' // 2x2x3 [7/7]
R U' R' U' R' // 2xcross by doing ??? [5/12]
F' U F // make 2 pairs [3/15]
R' U2 R // F2L-1 [3/18]
U' R U2 R' // [4/22]

Many people found the fairly linear 27 on this solution, as did Vincent as the very first thing he tried. He told me that he basically spent the next 20-30 minutes just trying random crap after the 2x2x3 block, until he found that continuation, and was liek "uh k"

27 solution:
L R B' D' B2 D2 F' // 2x2x3 [7/7]
R2 U' R' U2 R' // F2L-1 [5/12]
B U' B' U' B U B' // F2L [7/19]
F' U2 F U F' U F U // left anti-sune [8/27]



Scramble 2: U2 F' D B2 L' F2 B2 U2 L' B' U F2 U' R2 U B2 U' R2 B2 U2 B2
Solution 2: D' F' D' L F2 U B' D' F D R' D' F' D U R2 D L U B U B' L' (23 moves)



Spoiler: solution



D' F' D' L F2 U B' // blockbuild for an almost pseudo 2x2x3 [7/7]
D' F D R' D' F' D U R2 D // build 2x cross with pairs [10/17]
L U B U B' L' // finish [6/23]



Scramble 3: B2 L U2 B2 L2 R F2 R' B U' B2 F2 L D' R' B' D2 B2 U
Solution 3: U R U D' F' D' F2 U' F2 R' F' R2 B R' B U' R' B' U2 B U R F' D' U' L U L' D F (30 moves)



Spoiler: solution



U R U D' F' D' F' // 2x2x2 plus edge [7/7]
F' U' F2 R' F' R // 2x2x3, cancel 1 [5/12]
R B R' B // 2xcross, cancel 1 [3/15]
U' R' B' U2 B U R // F2L-1 [7/22]
F' D' U' L U L' D F // finish [8/30]


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## EMI (Aug 23, 2015)

My tied third place solution from GBCO this weekend.

Scramble: U2 B2 U' L2 U R2 U' R' F D' R' D2 L' D' R F2 L2 B' R'

Two blocks: L2 
Switch, 1x2x2: U' L2 B'
2x2x3: L2 F' L D' R
F2L-1: L F L' U2
3e4c: F

Skeleton: L2 F' U2 L F' # L' R' D L' F L2 B + L2 U @
@ = U' R2 U D' F2 D
# = F L' F' R' F L F' R 
+ = B2 L' F L B2 L' F' L

Total: L2 F' U2 F' R' F L F' L' D L' F L2 B' L' F L B2 L' F' L' R2 U D' F2 D (26)


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## Julian (Aug 23, 2015)

not_kevin said:


> Based on some other discussions in other forums, I tried to reconstruct Vincent Sheu's FMC WR from US Nats 2014. I currently only have the first, but I'll update this post with all 3 if I'm able to get it.
> 
> Scramble 1: L2 F L2 R2 B2 R2 B' R2 F U2 L2 D B2 U' F' L' B2 R' U2 L2
> Solution 1: L R B' D' B2 D2 F' R U' R' U' R' F' U F R' U2 R U' R U2 R'
> ...


I spent 45 minutes on a fancy 28-move solution. Then I looked at the scramble with a fresh mind, saw a different way to make the same 7-move 2x2x3, and found the 27-move solution on my first pass


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## uesyuu (Aug 23, 2015)

My official PB solution (26moves)

Scramble: F R2 B U L B' U2 R' B D' B2 U2 D' F2 B2 D' B2 R2 D2 R2
Solution: D2 R2 D U B' U F U' B U R D' F' U D' F U' F' D F2 D2 L' F' L B U'

Premove: B U'
222: D2 R2 U2

switch to inverse
Premove: U2 R2 D2
222: U B'
More 221: L' F L

switch to normal
Premove: D2 L' F' L B U'
222 and more 221: D2 R2 U2
F2L-1: D F R D'
L5C: F' U F U' F

Skeleton: D2 R2 U2 D + F R D' F' U * F U' F D2 L' F' L B U'
Insert at +: U' B' U F U' B U F'
Insert at *: D' F U' F' D F U F'


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## Sebastien (Aug 24, 2015)

Marcel and Emanuel asked me about the current state of rolling FMC average UWRs this weekend and as I had no idea, I decided to update this. Since last time, the amount of valid results has massively improved! Right now, there are 1043 rollwing Mean of 3 (compared to only 613 real means in the database), 811 rolling Average of 5 and 154 rolling Average of 12. So I decided to just post the current Top 100.



Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Mean of 3 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Mean of 3Individual Results1.2006SHEU01Vincent Sheu2427, 22, 231.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux2427, 22, 233.2013COST02João Pedro Batista Ribeiro Costa24,3323, 26, 244.2011FRES01Linus Fresz24,6726, 22, 265.2010BENT01Jan Bentlage2528, 22, 255.2012PETE03Marcel Peters2527, 22, 267.2009OKAY01Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭)25,3320, 29, 278.2009SHEP01Daniel Sheppard2625, 27, 269.2011RHEI01Emanuel Rheinert26,3325, 29, 259.2011SBAH01Rami Sbahi26,3330, 29, 2011.2007SANC01Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez2726, 28, 2711.2008BARA01Bence Barát2725, 28, 2811.2013KOKS01Serhii Koksharov (Сергій Кокшаров)2727, 29, 2514.2009ZEMD01Feliks Zemdegs27,3327, 25, 3015.2005AKKE01Erik Akkersdijk27,6733, 24, 2615.2011WELC01Walker Welch27,6726, 29, 2815.2014NOVO01Tomáš Novotný27,6732, 25, 2618.2005REYN01Tim Reynolds2828, 26, 3018.2007PERG01Olivér Perge2828, 29, 2718.2007TIIN01Teemu Tiinanen2828, 29, 2721.1982RAZO01Guus Razoux Schultz28,3329, 27, 2921.2007SUNT01Timothy Sun28,3328, 30, 2721.2008CLEM01Kit Clement28,3326, 30, 2921.2008DONG06Baiqiang Dong (董百强)28,3326, 27, 3221.2008KARL02Moritz Karl28,3333, 21, 3121.2008WEST02Simon Westlund28,3328, 29, 2821.2008YOUN02Michael Young28,3326, 33, 2621.2010DAVI06Julian David28,3329, 27, 2921.2011TRON02Sebastiano Tronto28,3327, 26, 3221.2012KROK01Anton Krokhmal (Антон Крохмаль)28,3322, 34, 2931.2005LUCZ01Grzegorz Łuczyna28,6725, 31, 3031.2008UENO01Shuto Ueno (上野柊斗)28,6730, 29, 2731.2009YAUR01Robert Yau28,6726, 30, 3031.2010BREC01John Brechon28,6728, 30, 2831.2010JERN01Erik Jernqvist28,6729, 29, 2831.2011STUA01Rob Stuart28,6729, 28, 2931.2014CSUT01Bence János Csuti28,6724, 32, 3031.2014GUPT09Prakhar Gupta28,6730, 25, 3139.2007HUGH01Mike Hughey2931, 30, 2639.2007VALK01Mats Valk2929, 30, 2839.2008NIIN01Hideki Niina (新名秀樹)2933, 28, 2639.2009LIUE01Evan Liu2931, 28, 2839.2011DOBR01Dmitry Dobrjakov2930, 28, 2939.2012DELI01Ryan DeLine2933, 28, 2645.2003GOLJ01Mirek Goljan29,3329, 28, 3145.2005BATI01Milán Baticz29,3330, 29, 2945.2007NAKA03Yu Nakajima (中島悠)29,3324, 36, 2845.2007XUST01Steven Xu29,3331, 32, 2545.2008OLLE01Alexander Olleta del Molino29,3334, 28, 2645.2012BUBE01Reto Bubendorf29,3331, 29, 2845.2014BOYA01Mark Boyanowski29,3330, 30, 2852.2008CHEN27Shuang Chen (陈霜)29,6731, 30, 2852.2010ADHI01Stephen Adhisaputra29,6727, 34, 2852.2010THOM03Blake Thompson29,6731, 32, 2652.2012MENE01Diego Bojunga Meneghetti29,6724, 29, 3652.2014SCHO02Cale Schoon29,6732, 29, 2857.2004GALL02Clément Gallet3026, 31, 3357.2007LAIR01Johannes Laire3030, 29, 3157.2007WONG02Tim Wong3026, 41, 2357.2008HANK01Kanneti Sae Han (คันธ์เนตี แซ่ห่าน)3029, 29, 3257.2011FATE01Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Fatemi (سید محمد حسین فاطمی)3029, 27, 3457.2012HIRA01Tomoyuki Hiraide (平出智之)3032, 29, 2957.2012MCNE01Jayden McNeill3032, 30, 2864.2006CORR01Devin Corr-Robinett30,3332, 33, 2664.2006GOTT01Michael Gottlieb30,3332, 29, 3064.2008MAND01Nikhil Mande30,3334, 29, 2864.2009PETI01Loïc Petit30,3328, 32, 3164.2010TANA02Yuki Tanaka (田中悠樹)30,3325, 33, 3364.2011LAYE01Saeed Mostafavi Layegh (سعید مصطفوی لایق)30,3329, 30, 3264.2011STAC01Marcin Stachura30,3332, 31, 2864.2011SZAT01Wojciech Szatanowski30,3330, 32, 2964.2013VEDE01Andrii Vedenov (Андрій Веденьов)30,3332, 30, 2964.2015GROH02Matěj Grohmann30,3328, 26, 3774.2003ZBOR02Zbigniew Zborowski30,6728, 33, 3174.2006OOKU01Takayuki Ookusa (大艸尊之)30,6731, 30, 3174.2008LAUR01Mario Laurent30,6733, 30, 2974.2009PLES01Michał Pleskowicz30,6728, 32, 3274.2010RONK01Niko Ronkainen30,6730, 30, 3274.2012KUCH01Piotr Kuchta30,6734, 28, 3074.2012WESC01Lucas Wesche30,6729, 33, 3074.2012YANA01Taku Yanai (矢内拓)30,6728, 30, 3474.2013HUAN16Bo Huang (黄镈)30,6728, 31, 3383.2007ADSU01Justin Adsuara3132, 26, 3583.2007MOSE02Jack Moseley3128, 35, 3083.2007POLI01Lorenzo Vigani Poli3131, 29, 3383.2009PARE02Luis Javier Iáñez Pareja3131, 31, 3183.2009XUAN03Yan Xuan (宣炎)3130, 29, 3483.2010KARY02Dmitry Karyakin3130, 36, 2789.2006BUUS01Henrik Buus Aagaard31,3335, 27, 3289.2006GALE01Arnaud van Galen31,3331, 29, 3489.2006GARR01Lucas Garron31,3330, 34, 3089.2007PERD01Antoine Perdereau31,3333, 31, 3089.2008SMIT04Maarten Smit31,3335, 33, 2689.2009LOOS01Dennis Loose31,3331, 34, 2989.2011DWYE02Nathan Dwyer31,3332, 28, 3489.2012ELLI01Keaton Ellis31,3330, 35, 2989.2012LEHT01Janne Lehtimäki31,3329, 33, 3289.2012POHL01Andreas Pohl31,3331, 29, 3489.2013MUAT01Matěj Mužátko31,3335, 31, 2889.2013SKEL01Mark Skelton31,3329, 33, 3289.2013ZOLL01Ben Zoller31,3333, 34, 2789.2014ANIS01Ilya Anishchenko31,3336, 29, 29






Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Average of 5 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Average of 5Individual Results1.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux24,6727, 24, 26, 23, 241.2012PETE03Marcel Peters24,6722, 26, 33, 24, 243.2013COST02João Pedro Batista Ribeiro Costa2523, 26, 24, 28, 254.2009SHEP01Daniel Sheppard25,3324, 26, 29, 24, 265.2009OKAY01Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭)26,3324, 21, 33, 25, 305.2010BENT01Jan Bentlage26,3325, 27, 31, 27, 225.2011RHEI01Emanuel Rheinert26,3325, 30, 28, 26, 258.2006SHEU01Vincent Sheu26,6740, 27, 22, 23, 309.2007SANC01Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez27DNF, 26, 28, 27, 269.2008BARA01Bence Barát2732, 25, 28, 28, 259.2011FRES01Linus Fresz2729, 35, 26, 22, 2612.2014NOVO01Tomáš Novotný27,6723, DNF, 32, 25, 2613.2007PERG01Olivér Perge2829, 27, 32, 28, 2613.2007TIIN01Teemu Tiinanen2828, 29, 27, DNF, 2515.2005REYN01Tim Reynolds28,3326, 30, 35, 29, 2615.2009ZEMD01Feliks Zemdegs28,3338, 27, 25, 30, 2815.2011WELC01Walker Welch28,3330, 26, 29, 32, 2615.2013KOKS01Serhii Koksharov (Сергій Кокшаров)28,3327, 29, 25, 39, 2919.2007SUNT01Timothy Sun28,6731, 28, 28, 30, 2719.2010JERN01Erik Jernqvist28,6728, 32, 29, 29, 2821.2008CLEM01Kit Clement2928, 32, 26, 30, 2921.2008DONG06Baiqiang Dong (董百强)2926, 27, 32, 34, 2821.2010DAVI06Julian David2933, 29, 27, 29, 2921.2011TRON02Sebastiano Tronto2928, 37, 27, 26, 3221.2012DELI01Ryan DeLine2930, 29, 28, DNF, 2626.2005BATI01Milán Baticz29,3330, 29, 29, DNF, 2826.2005LUCZ01Grzegorz Łuczyna29,3328, 26, DNF, 28, 3226.2008UENO01Shuto Ueno (上野柊斗)29,3328, 29, 31, 30, 2926.2010BREC01John Brechon29,3328, 31, DNF, 28, 2930.1982RAZO01Guus Razoux Schultz29,67DNF, 29, 27, 29, 3130.2007VALK01Mats Valk29,6731, 29, 32, 29, 2830.2008WEST02Simon Westlund29,6728, 29, 28, 34, 3230.2008YOUN02Michael Young29,6730, 36, 26, 33, 2630.2011SBAH01Rami Sbahi29,6730, 31, 30, 29, 2030.2012HIRA01Tomoyuki Hiraide (平出智之)29,6729, 28, DNF, 28, 3230.2014SCHO02Cale Schoon29,6725, 43, 32, 29, 2837.2004GALL02Clément Gallet3027, 32, DNF, 26, 3137.2007XUST01Steven Xu3027, 33, 31, 32, 2537.2009LIUE01Evan Liu3031, 36, 31, 28, 2837.2009YAUR01Robert Yau3026, DNF, 31, 28, 3137.2010THOM03Blake Thompson3027, 41, 31, 32, 2637.2012POHL01Andreas Pohl3030, 28, DNF, 28, 3237.2014BOYA01Mark Boyanowski3030, 32, 30, 30, 2837.2014GUPT09Prakhar Gupta3029, 40, 30, 25, 3145.2005AKKE01Erik Akkersdijk30,3324, 26, DNF, 35, 3045.2008CHEN27Shuang Chen (陈霜)30,3330, 33, 31, 30, 2845.2008LAUR01Mario Laurent30,3330, 29, 34, 31, 3045.2008MAND01Nikhil Mande30,3332, 30, 34, 29, 2845.2012BUBE01Reto Bubendorf30,3331, 29, 28, 32, 3145.2012LEHT01Janne Lehtimäki30,3329, 27, DNF, 29, 3345.2012MCNE01Jayden McNeill30,3330, 28, 39, 31, 3052.2006CORR01Devin Corr-Robinett30,6726, 33, 32, DNF, 2752.2008KARL02Moritz Karl30,6721, 31, 33, 31, 3052.2008OLLE01Alexander Olleta del Molino30,67DNF, 30, 34, 28, 2652.2009PETI01Loïc Petit30,6729, 35, 28, 32, 3152.2011SZAT01Wojciech Szatanowski30,6735, 30, 32, 29, 3057.2006GOTT01Michael Gottlieb3133, 31, 32, 29, 3057.2006OOKU01Takayuki Ookusa (大艸尊之)3131, 30, 31, 35, 3157.2007NAKA03Yu Nakajima (中島悠)3124, 36, 28, 32, 3357.2008HANK01Kanneti Sae Han (คันธ์เนตี แซ่ห่าน)3134, 29, 29, 32, 3257.2008NIIN01Hideki Niina (新名秀樹)3132, DNF, 33, 28, 2657.2011STAC01Marcin Stachura3137, 30, 32, 31, 2857.2014CSUT01Bence János Csuti3136, 31, 24, 32, 3064.2006GARR01Lucas Garron31,3330, 35, 30, 34, 3064.2009PARE02Luis Javier Iáñez Pareja31,33DNF, 32, 31, 31, 3166.2003HARD01Chris Hardwick31,6732, 32, 37, 31, 3066.2007HUGH01Mike Hughey31,6734, 37, 31, 30, 2666.2009PLES01Michał Pleskowicz31,6731, 32, 33, 28, 3266.2011DOBR01Dmitry Dobrjakov31,6736, 40, 30, 28, 2966.2011FATE01Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Fatemi (سید محمد حسین فاطمی)31,6735, 29, 27, 34, 3266.2012ELLI01Keaton Ellis31,6730, 35, 29, 32, 3366.2012KUCH01Piotr Kuchta31,6733, 31, 31, DNF, 3166.2013SKEL01Mark Skelton31,6729, 33, 32, 31, 3266.2013VEDE01Andrii Vedenov (Андрій Веденьов)31,6733, 33, 32, 30, 2975.2007MOSE02Jack Moseley3231, 28, 35, 30, DNF75.2007WONG02Tim Wong3230, 40, 26, 41, 2375.2008POTR01Guillain Potron3227, 37, 34, 34, 2875.2009LOOS01Dennis Loose32DNF, 31, 34, 29, 3175.2009XUAN03Yan Xuan (宣炎)3232, 37, 30, 29, 3475.2010KARY02Dmitry Karyakin3230, 36, 27, 43, 3075.2011LAYE01Saeed Mostafavi Layegh (سعید مصطفوی لایق)32DNF, 34, 29, 30, 3275.2012ARTH01Noah Arthurs3231, DNF, 33, 31, 3275.2012MENE01Diego Bojunga Meneghetti3229, 30, 36, 31, 3575.2012YANA01Taku Yanai (矢内拓)3232, DNF, 28, 30, 3485.2007LAIR01Johannes Laire32,3336, 30, 29, 31, DNS85.2007PERD01Antoine Perdereau32,3331, 30, DNF, 36, 3085.2010ADHI01Stephen Adhisaputra32,3336, 35, 27, 34, 2885.2011KOGL01Jakob Kogler32,3330, 33, 36, 32, 3285.2012KROK01Anton Krokhmal (Антон Крохмаль)32,3338, 33, 33, 31, 2890.2010UTOM01Vincent Hartanto Utomo32,6729, DNF, 26, 41, 2890.2011LIUR02Rui-Jun Liu (劉睿鈞)32,6733, 30, 33, 36, 3290.2013ZOLL01Ben Zoller32,6736, 31, 33, 34, 2793.2003ZBOR02Zbigniew Zborowski3339, 28, 33, 31, 3593.2005HSUA01Anthony Hsu3329, 36, 34, 41, 2893.2006BUUS01Henrik Buus Aagaard3335, 27, 32, DNF, 3293.2008SMIT04Maarten Smit3332, 37, 34, 33, 3293.2010TANA02Yuki Tanaka (田中悠樹)3333, 35, 25, 33, 3393.2013HUAN16Bo Huang (黄镈)33DNF, 33, 33, 32, 3393.2013LIPE01Peiyan Li (利沛焰)3330, 31, DNF, 35, 3393.2013YUSH01Pavel Yushkevich3332, 35, 29, 42, 32






Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Average of 12 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Average of 12Individual Results1.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux26,527, 26, 29, 25, 29, 26, 27, 30, 26, 27, 22, 232.2012PETE03Marcel Peters26,626, 23, 27, 28, 27, 29, 24, 29, DNF, 27, 22, 263.2011RHEI01Emanuel Rheinert2725, 29, 25, 30, 28, 26, 25, 29, 27, 26, 29, 264.2013COST02João Pedro Batista Ribeiro Costa27,125, 32, DNF, 23, 26, 24, 28, 25, 26, 26, 29, 305.2010BENT01Jan Bentlage27,222, 25, 31, 28, 39, 30, 25, 27, 31, 27, 22, 266.2009SHEP01Daniel Sheppard27,431, 29, DNF, 26, 25, 29, 29, 24, 26, 29, 24, 267.2011FRES01Linus Fresz27,531, 29, 27, 23, 28, 28, 28, 29, 35, 26, 22, 268.2009OKAY01Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭)27,724, 21, 33, 25, 30, 30, 28, 31, 26, 26, 30, 279.2005REYN01Tim Reynolds29,826, 30, 35, 29, 26, 31, 30, 31, 29, 31, 35, 2610.2008BARA01Bence Barát29,924, 38, 29, 28, 30, 31, 27, 28, 36, 33, 26, 3111.2008CLEM01Kit Clement3028, 35, 32, 32, 30, 28, 32, 26, 30, 29, 30, 2912.2005LUCZ01Grzegorz Łuczyna30,328, 26, DNF, 28, 32, 30, 32, 29, 31, 32, 35, 2512.2007PERG01Olivér Perge30,335, 28, 31, 34, DNF, 28, 29, 27, 32, 28, 26, 3114.2007VALK01Mats Valk30,631, 29, 30, 28, DNF, 31, 29, 32, 29, 28, 33, 3414.2008UENO01Shuto Ueno (上野柊斗)30,630, 32, 32, 36, 32, 33, 28, 29, 31, 30, 29, 2716.2009ZEMD01Feliks Zemdegs30,740, 31, 30, 29, 36, 38, 27, 25, 30, 28, 30, 2817.2008YOUN02Michael Young30,827, 30, 34, 33, 32, 34, 29, 30, 36, 26, 33, 2618.2008DONG06Baiqiang Dong (董百强)30,942, 34, 29, 29, 30, 33, 33, 26, 27, 32, 34, 2819.2008CHEN27Shuang Chen (陈霜)31,134, 30, 33, 31, 30, 28, 32, 32, 32, 28, 30, 3320.2011SBAH01Rami Sbahi31,245, 35, 32, 33, 27, 33, 30, 31, 30, 29, 20, 3221.2007SUNT01Timothy Sun31,435, 35, 32, 37, 32, 31, 28, 28, 30, 27, 33, 3022.2010DAVI06Julian David31,532, 33, DNF, 27, 34, 36, 33, 29, 27, 29, 29, 3322.2011WELC01Walker Welch31,523, 34, 30, 35, 30, 30, 29, 33, 35, DNF, 27, 3224.2012MCNE01Jayden McNeill31,633, 33, 31, 35, 31, 32, 30, 28, 39, 31, 30, 3025.2008KARL02Moritz Karl31,736, 33, 33, 21, 31, 33, 31, 30, 32, 35, 28, 3126.2008MAND01Nikhil Mande31,832, 39, 30, 26, 39, 27, 37, 32, 30, 34, 29, 2826.2014BOYA01Mark Boyanowski31,830, 32, 30, 30, 28, 32, 34, 40, 29, DNF, 30, 3128.2008WEST02Simon Westlund31,934, 31, 27, 34, 36, 32, 37, 33, 34, 28, 29, 2829.2009LIUE01Evan Liu32,233, 33, 31, 37, 34, 27, 38, 31, 36, 31, 28, 2830.2008LAUR01Mario Laurent32,537, 32, 28, 36, 31, 31, 32, 34, 37, 33, 30, 2931.2010BREC01John Brechon32,639, 39, 35, 34, 28, 30, 28, 31, DNF, 28, 29, 3332.2014SCHO02Cale Schoon32,725, 43, 32, 29, 28, 40, 29, 42, 30, 34, 31, 3233.2012KUCH01Piotr Kuchta32,831, 31, DNF, 31, 34, 30, 38, 34, 35, 34, 28, 3033.2012MENE01Diego Bojunga Meneghetti32,829, 30, 36, 31, 35, 30, 38, 32, 36, 32, 37, 2835.2004GALL02Clément Gallet32,933, 33, 35, 35, 29, 35, 39, 29, 35, 34, 31, 2836.2006GARR01Lucas Garron33,132, 33, 35, DNF, 28, 37, 35, 30, 35, 30, 34, 3036.2013VEDE01Andrii Vedenov (Андрій Веденьов)33,132, 37, DNF, 32, 26, 40, 33, 33, 32, 30, 29, 3338.2011STAC01Marcin Stachura33,235, 34, 32, 25, 38, 32, 35, 33, 34, 36, 33, 2838.2012KROK01Anton Krokhmal (Антон Крохмаль)33,232, 35, 39, 22, 34, 29, 37, DNF, 36, 32, 35, 2338.2013KOKS01Serhii Koksharov (Сергій Кокшаров)33,235, 31, 37, 37, 40, 34, 27, 29, 25, 39, 29, 3441.2005AKKE01Erik Akkersdijk33,433, 31, 31, 40, 30, 33, 32, 33, 37, 35, 26, 3942.2007HUGH01Mike Hughey33,635, 35, 32, 39, 35, 34, 33, 34, 37, 31, 30, 2642.2008SMIT04Maarten Smit33,630, 36, 42, 32, 37, 34, 33, 32, 34, 35, 33, 2642.2011DOBR01Dmitry Dobrjakov33,629, 37, 38, 37, 34, 36, 30, 36, 40, 30, 28, 2945.2009LOOS01Dennis Loose3436, 37, 34, 34, 35, DNF, 31, 34, 29, 31, 34, 3446.2007NAKA03Yu Nakajima (中島悠)34,133, DNF, 24, 36, 28, 32, 33, 32, 34, 43, 32, 3847.2006SHEU01Vincent Sheu34,245, 40, 31, 42, 33, DNF, 40, 27, 22, 23, 30, 3147.2010ADHI01Stephen Adhisaputra34,241, 36, 35, 27, 34, 28, DNF, 36, 34, 33, 38, 2747.2010THOM03Blake Thompson34,243, 27, 41, 31, 32, 26, 37, 30, 33, 45, 36, 3250.2009DIEC01Cornelius Dieckmann34,432, DNF, 35, 34, 36, 35, 34, 35, 33, 29, 35, 3550.2009PARE02Luis Javier Iáñez Pareja34,433, 35, 29, 30, 40, 38, 35, 34, 35, 31, DNF, 3352.2011SZAT01Wojciech Szatanowski34,635, 30, 32, 29, 30, 35, 34, DNF, 46, 36, 34, 3452.2013YUSH01Pavel Yushkevich34,632, 34, DNF, 32, 35, 29, 42, 32, 40, 37, 30, 3254.2005HSUA01Anthony Hsu34,832, 29, 36, 34, 41, 28, 29, 40, 40, 40, 35, 3355.2005KOZK01Piotr Kózka35,235, 46, 39, 35, 33, 34, 35, 35, 36, 33, 33, 3755.2011NARA02Bhargav Narasimhan35,239, 36, 34, 42, 31, 35, 34, 34, 33, 38, 33, 3657.2012ZABR01Ivan Zabrodin35,336, 33, 28, 42, 43, 40, 29, 38, 37, 32, 33, 3358.2010AGUI04Pablo Aguilar Dominguez35,433, 38, 36, 39, 35, 39, 30, 32, 33, 35, 38, 3559.2009PLES01Michał Pleskowicz35,538, 28, 40, 35, 32, 39, 41, 37, 29, 47, 31, 3360.2010GARC02Carlos Méndez García-Barroso35,733, 35, 35, 43, 35, 45, 38, 34, 30, 37, 33, 3461.2009OHRN01Laura Ohrndorf35,838, 35, 43, 39, 27, 34, 37, 33, 36, DNF, 36, 2262.2007HESS01Rowe Hessler35,931, 37, 40, 33, 36, 33, 43, 32, DNF, 36, 36, 3363.2011DWYE02Nathan Dwyer36,142, DNF, 33, 36, 44, 35, 32, 28, 34, 39, 35, 3164.2008COUR01François Courtès36,235, 33, 40, 33, 38, 37, 37, DNF, 33, 37, 36, 3664.2012MORM01Serhii Mormul (Сергій Мормуль)36,234, DNF, 34, 42, 36, 39, 34, 38, 34, 33, 38, 2666.2006GALE01Arnaud van Galen36,435, 36, 28, 35, 43, 45, 31, 29, 34, 40, DNF, 3666.2013KAMI03Vladislav Kaminskiy36,440, 40, DNF, 34, 32, 39, 35, 39, 35, 35, 35, 3268.2007YUNQ01Yunqi Ouyang (欧阳韵奇)36,629, 40, 35, 46, 40, 35, 36, 36, 39, 37, 36, 3269.2013MUAT01Matěj Mužátko36,840, 42, 39, 35, 31, 28, DNF, 34, 35, 32, 41, 3970.2007WONG02Tim Wong36,969, 42, 41, 41, 33, 30, 40, 26, 41, 23, 42, 3370.2008MORE02Hippolyte Moreau36,934, 40, 29, 34, 33, 36, 36, DNF, 32, 44, 51, 2870.2010OMUL02Matic Omulec36,940, 37, 34, 34, 41, 35, 37, 39, DNF, 31, 37, 3570.2011LIUR02Rui-Jun Liu (劉睿鈞)36,930, 33, 36, 32, DNF, 37, 44, 35, 42, 35, 44, 3170.2011MELI01Artem Melikian (Артем Мелікян)36,943, 41, 31, 39, 40, 38, 33, 36, 40, 40, 31, 2875.2009KIMA01Anatoly Kim37,537, 36, 32, 38, 40, 36, 35, 31, 35, 42, DNF, 4475.2013LEJE03Kennan LeJeune37,539, DNF, 37, 39, 38, 35, 35, 27, 38, 48, 35, 3177.2009ZHAN53Weixing Zhang (张炜星)37,741, 41, 38, 33, 32, 40, 41, DNF, 38, 37, 34, 3478.2009BLAI01AJ Blair37,843, DNF, 36, 41, 44, 37, 36, 39, 32, 34, 36, 2879.2006BUUS01Henrik Buus Aagaard37,935, 39, 33, 36, 40, 36, 46, 33, 34, 40, 47, 4079.2010CORM02Louis Cormier37,940, 35, 37, 38, 40, 41, 34, 27, 39, 39, 40, 3781.2008PIAU01Antoine Piau3837, 38, 40, 41, 32, 39, 37, 38, 43, 36, 37, 3781.2012KALE01Przemysław Kaleta3839, 35, 34, DNF, 35, 38, 39, 40, 31, 39, 41, 4083.2007POLI01Lorenzo Vigani Poli38,1DNF, 37, 47, 39, 38, 39, 42, 39, 36, 31, 29, 3383.2009BOZS01Hunor Bózsing38,134, 36, 41, 41, 34, 40, 39, 38, 37, DNF, 39, 3685.2012HALE01Callum Hales-Jepp38,2DNF, 37, 35, 39, 41, 36, 39, 53, 31, 33, 35, 3486.2010DESJ01Jules Desjardin38,345, 35, 39, 38, 38, 40, 42, 29, DNF, 38, 32, 3686.2011TORG01Ivan Torgashov38,3DNF, 39, 42, 37, 48, 36, 34, 39, 34, 42, 31, 3286.2012ROQU01Pedro Henrique da Silva Roque38,347, 40, 34, 40, 37, 29, 41, 35, 39, 35, 39, 4389.2014MIAO02Qijun Miao (缪其隽)38,441, 39, 39, DNF, 42, 41, 35, 41, 31, 37, 38, 2890.2011BERG02Anders Berggren38,639, 36, 34, 45, 37, 39, 35, 43, 42, 38, 39, 3890.2011MOLL01James Molloy38,635, 40, 41, 49, 38, 32, 42, DNF, 31, 36, 33, 4092.2010OLIV01Auguste Olivry38,747, 39, 36, 39, 35, 37, 29, 35, 39, 43, DNF, 3793.2009KOMP01Andrii Kompaniiets (Андрій Компанієць)38,834, 44, 39, 33, 41, 34, 43, 44, 39, 40, 41, 3293.2011SAKO01Corey Sakowski38,841, 34, DNF, 38, 49, 35, 40, 37, 36, 40, 38, 3295.2007JAKU01Marcin Jakubowski39,233, 34, 43, 46, 36, 41, 32, 47, 40, 35, 38, 4696.2003BURT01Bob Burton39,341, 31, 32, 47, 43, 43, 37, 40, 37, 40, 40, 4097.2008VARG01Dániel Varga39,435, 46, 38, 43, 34, 37, 35, 32, DNF, 47, 45, 3497.2010CANT02Antoine Cantin39,446, 40, 40, 31, DNF, 37, 43, 40, 37, 34, 39, 3899.2009WHIT01Ben Whitmore39,545, 45, 46, 36, 40, 34, 40, 37, 33, 38, 44, 36100.2009ARSA01Riadi Arsandi39,638, 40, 37, 38, 45, 33, 37, 42, 43, 44, 40, 37


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## Sebastien (Aug 24, 2015)

Another (very short) list:



Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Average of 50 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Average of 50Individual Results1.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux27,5426, 26, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, 30, DNF, 28, 25, 23, 30, 31, 29, 27, 26, 31, 26, 29, 26, 31, 23, 25, 29, 25, 30, 29, 24, 32, 27, 27, 29, 26, 30, 33, 27, 24, 26, 23, 24, 29, 30, 30, 27, 27, 21, 30, 29, 302.2008BARA01Bence Barát31,0228, 31, 30, 30, 34, 34, 23, 31, 36, 31, 34, 31, 33, 33, 38, 29, 38, 31, 30, 32, 27, 29, 35, 26, 35, 35, 24, 38, 29, 28, 30, 31, 27, 28, 36, 33, 26, 31, 33, 33, 32, 36, 29, 32, 32, 25, 28, 28, 25, 32




Edit: Emanuel told me, that cstimer drops the 3 best and 3 worst times for an Average of 50, resulting in a better populated list:



Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Average of 50 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Average of 50Individual Results1.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux27,5226, 26, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, 30, DNF, 28, 25, 23, 30, 31, 29, 27, 26, 31, 26, 29, 26, 31, 23, 25, 29, 25, 30, 29, 24, 32, 27, 27, 29, 26, 30, 33, 27, 24, 26, 23, 24, 29, 30, 30, 27, 27, 21, 30, 29, 302.2009OKAY01Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭)29,3420, 29, 27, 29, 28, 32, 31, 34, 27, 29, 30, 31, 28, 27, 29, 31, DNF, 28, 25, 28, 29, 30, 29, 30, 32, 35, 24, 33, 28, 30, DNF, DNF, 30, 27, 33, 31, 32, 24, 21, 33, 25, 30, 30, 28, 31, 26, 26, 30, 27, 293.2010BENT01Jan Bentlage29,9830, 28, 27, DNF, 31, 27, 29, DNF, 27, 31, 32, 36, 29, 34, 33, 36, 29, 29, 30, 31, 33, 32, 28, 31, 37, 27, 29, 28, DNF, 28, 29, 31, 29, 31, 25, 31, 29, 28, 22, 25, 31, 28, 39, 30, 25, 27, 31, 27, 22, 264.2008BARA01Bence Barát3128, 31, 30, 30, 34, 34, 23, 31, 36, 31, 34, 31, 33, 33, 38, 29, 38, 31, 30, 32, 27, 29, 35, 26, 35, 35, 24, 38, 29, 28, 30, 31, 27, 28, 36, 33, 26, 31, 33, 33, 32, 36, 29, 32, 32, 25, 28, 28, 25, 325.2005AKKE01Erik Akkersdijk35,4142, 39, 35, 41, 42, 37, 33, 36, 34, 39, 38, 31, 39, 32, 35, 26, 37, 34, 34, DNF, 37, DNF, 33, 31, 31, 40, 30, 33, 32, 33, 37, 35, 26, 39, 37, 32, 42, 34, 32, 35, 37, 37, 30, DNF, 35, 34, 36, 32, 29, 36


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## Sebastien (Aug 24, 2015)

And here comes the triple post: My winning solution from last weekend's crazy FMC Podium (23,24,2*26).

Scramble: U2 B2 U' L2 U R2 U' R' F D' R' D2 L' D' R F2 L2 B' R'

EO: R B * L' F
2x2x3: B2 R' F2 R2 U' L
L3C: R' D2 R D2 F2 D' F2

* = B' U' B D' B' U B D

Solution: R U' B D' B' U B D L' F B2 R' F2 R2 U' L R' D2 R D2 F2 D' F2

23 moves.


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## Ninja Storm (Aug 24, 2015)

D L U2 D2 B R' U' R B2 U2 F B' D2 L2 F2 B D2 R2

Got this on a normal speedsolve. Tried it again counting moves(and a slightly different solution) and got a 24 with CFOP. Brest got a 23.


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## EMI (Aug 24, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> Marcel and Emanuel asked me about the current state of rolling FMC average UWRs this weekend and as I had no idea, I decided to update this. Since last time, the amount of valid results has massively improved! Right now, there are 1043 rollwing Mean of 3 (compared to only 613 real means in the database), 811 rolling Average of 5 and 154 rolling Average of 12. So I decided to just post the current Top 100.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks!


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## Sebastien (Aug 24, 2015)

Ninja Storm said:


> D L U2 D2 B R' U' R B2 U2 F B' D2 L2 F2 B D2 R2
> 
> Got this on a normal speedsolve. Tried it again counting moves(and a slightly different solution) and got a 24 with CFOP. Brest got a 23.



Lol, nice scramble. I found this in ~15 minutes:

Pseudo-F2L-1: U B2 U' D F U
switch & all but 3 pairs: L F U' L' * B' L 

* = L B' U' B U B L' B'

Solution: U B2 U' D F U L' B2 L B' U' B' U B U F' L'

17 moves.

I would definitly take that in competition.


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## Bubtore (Aug 25, 2015)

My first try using 3 corner insertions (I once did a L3E + L5C skeletton which gave me 29 ...)

Scramble: D2 R2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 D F2 U' F2 R' B D2 R2 F' D F2 U B' R2

Pre // B2 - 1
222 + EO // B R L’ = B L F’ U’ * F’ - 8
223 // B - 1
L6C // L2 U’ L’ - 3
= L’ F2 L B L’ F2 L B’ - 4
* U F U’ B U F’ U’ B’ - 2

AB3C // B R L2 * F2 L B L’ F2 L2 U’ B U F’ U’ F’ L2 U’ L’ B2 - 20 (edit : 19)
* L F2 L’ B2 L F2 L’ B2 - 7

Final Solution // B R L’ F2 L’ B2 L F2 L’ B2 F2 L B L’ F2 L2 U’ B U F’ U’ F’ L2 U’ L’ B2 - 27 (edit: 26) Moves

Optimal would have 26 been so I'm quite happy with it, even though the last insertion isn't that great.

edit : I miscounted, it's actually 26, that's even better !!!


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## nalralz (Aug 25, 2015)

Got 44 with CFOP at Cubic Catastrophe which almost got me my first podium!


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## Joey VOV (Aug 26, 2015)

On the scramble from Cubic Catastrophe 2015. Would have gotten first 

Scramble: U' F2 R2 U2 F2 D R2 U' F2 L2 D2 R D2 F R' B2 U' L2 F D2
inverse: D2 F' L2 U B2 R F' D2 R' D2 L2 F2 U R2 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 U

on inverse:
F2 D' L F U L' B' L' / 222 (8)
R' B' D2 B / 223 (12)
F' D2 F' D' F / F2L -1 (17)
D' R' D R D F D F' / TO L3C (25)

skeleton: F D' F' D' R' D' R D ^F' D F D2 F B' D2 B R L B L U' F' L' D F2 
insert at ^: D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F 

Final solution: F D' F' D' R' D' R D' F' U' F D2 F' U D F D2 F B' D2 B R L B L U' F' L' D F2 (30) Insertion was optimal. Entire attempt only took ~30 mins


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## porkynator (Aug 26, 2015)

Firt scramble of WC205:
L2 U' B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D U' L2 U2 B' R2 B' R B R' D' B' F2

(B2 U2 R2 F) //EO (4/4)
U2 B2 F2 L' //2x2x2 (4/8)
R' U2 R F2 //All but 4 corner and 4 edges, 1 move cancels with premoves (3/11)

Can anyone find a good finish? It's a double 4-cycle, so it can be solved with setup + single move + antisetup, but I couldn't find any place in the solve to do this.


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## irontwig (Aug 26, 2015)

Found a nice skeleton:

L2 F' L [EO]

Switch:
U' F2 [Pseudo 2x2x3]
D L2 D2 L2 F' D2 F [L4C]
B' R2 U [Pseudoness]


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## Kit Clement (Aug 26, 2015)

porkynator said:


> Firt scramble of WC205:
> L2 U' B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D U' L2 U2 B' R2 B' R B R' D' B' F2
> 
> (B2 U2 R2 F) //EO (4/4)
> ...



Got excited when I found this, but it's 3 twisted! Ugh.

(B2 U2 R2 F) //EO (4/4)
U2 B2 F2 L' //2x2x2 (4/8)
R' U2 ^ R F2 //All but 4 corner and 4 edges, 1 move cancels with premoves (3/11)

^ F2 R' U R2 U R2 U' R F2


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## irontwig (Aug 26, 2015)

porkynator said:


> Firt scramble of WC205:
> L2 U' B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D U' L2 U2 B' R2 B' R B R' D' B' F2
> 
> (B2 U2 R2 F) //EO (4/4)
> ...



On the inverse with premoves F2 L B2 U2:

B2 U2 R2 F' [EO]
R U2 [2x2x3]
D R2 D' F2 R F2 R [L3C]


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## not_kevin (Aug 26, 2015)

Joey VOV said:


> On the scramble from Cubic Catastrophe 2015. Would have gotten first
> 
> Scramble: U' F2 R2 U2 F2 D R2 U' F2 L2 D2 R D2 F R' B2 U' L2 F D2
> inverse: D2 F' L2 U B2 R F' D2 R' D2 L2 F2 U R2 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 U
> ...



Wow, nice scramble, and nice 2x2x2 - lots of cool things that can come out of that!

An interesting start based on your 2x2x2:
On inverse:
F2 D' L F U L' B' L' // your 2x2x2 [8/8]
R F' R2 // 2x2x3 [3/11]
D F2 D2 F2 // pseudo-F2L [4/15]
D' F' // 3c3e [2/17]
IF gives 28 optimal for this, but I'm sure someone can do better than that.

Some stuff I found afterwards, not using your start:
On inverse:
U' F2 L' D B' R2 L' // pseudo-2x2x3 [7/7]
U L' U2 L // F2L-1 [4/11]
F' R' F' R2 U' R' U // F2L + eo [7/18]
D F2 D' F' D F' D' F' L // antisune finish [9/27]

On inverse:
U' F2 L' D B' R2 L' // pseudo-2x2x3 [7/7]
U F L' // pseudo-F2L-1 [3/10]
switch to normal, with premoves L F' U' L R2 B D' L F2 U:
L2 // F2L-1 [1/11]
R U2 R' // EO + some blocks [3/14]
U F' U' F U // 2c2e [5/19]
I don't really know how to 2c2e, 'tho - you can set it up into a 10-move case (thanks, porkynator, for your guide :3) with a one move cancel using R' [R' F R' D2 L B' L' D2 R2 F'] R, for a 30, but I feel like there's better somewhere.


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## Julian (Aug 27, 2015)

Joey VOV said:


> On the scramble from Cubic Catastrophe 2015. Would have gotten first
> 
> Scramble: U' F2 R2 U2 F2 D R2 U' F2 L2 D2 R D2 F R' B2 U' L2 F D2
> inverse: D2 F' L2 U B2 R F' D2 R' D2 L2 F2 U R2 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 U


(B L2 F2 D B2) //2x2x2
(L' U2 F2 U' L' F2 U) U2 //wtf2l
(U' F' L' F L U L2) //L3C

17 to L3C lol. Unfortunately only cancels 1, for 24.


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## TheDubDubJr (Aug 27, 2015)

Had my worst insertions for L3C :3

This was the first scramble of the German Forum FMCs.



Spoiler



27

Scramble: R2 B2 D' B2 L2 U' F2 D' R2 B2 U2 L U2 F R' B' F2 R F R2 U2 
Inverse: U2 R2 F' R' F2 B R F' U2 L' U2 B2 R2 D F2 U L2 B2 D B2 R2

Inverse
U' L2 D // EO
R F' L' // 2x2x2
Switch
B' R D2 // 2 more 2x2x1s (add premoves R' B')
B' [R] // F2L-1
[R] D2 R' D2 B' D2 B // 19 to L3C

Skeleton: B' R D2 B' R2 D2 R' D2 B' D2 B R' B' L F R' D' L2 U
with 13 different Optimal Insertions all Cancelling 0.

http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7d66d5fa8146da99c181770e30e8dcac.cube

Mainly I find this my worst insertions yet because there were lots of 8-move comms but none of them cancelled even 1.
(also because I have never had a non-8move comm skeleton before)


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## EMI (Aug 30, 2015)

Funny insertion:

Scramble: U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U' L2 U R2 U' L U R2 F' D' B' L' D B U2

2x2x3: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F L'
Switch & L4C: R B U2 B2 R' B R

Skeleton: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F R' @ L' B' R B2 U2 B' R'
@ = R F R' F' R F R' F' R F R' F' (12-3)

Solution: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F2 R' F' R F R' F' R F R' F' L' B' R B2 U2 B' R' (25)

Yes, optimal.


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## irontwig (Aug 30, 2015)

Cool, I think I've seen Basti use that or triple-sledge hammer.


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## EMI (Aug 30, 2015)

irontwig said:


> Cool, I think I've seen Basti use that or triple-sledge hammer.



I only remember this: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...e-FMC-thread&p=1011459&viewfull=1#post1011459

Edit:
Average of 5 PB: 25.00
25, (28), 25, (24), 25



Spoiler: Solutions



1. Scramble: B2 U' L2 R2 U' B2 D' R2 F2 D2 B2 F D2 F L' R' U' F2 R U2 L

Pre: L2 D2

2x2x2: U2 L2
2x2x3: R' B2 D' R
Pseudo-F2L-1: B' D @ B
L3C: D' L B' L2 D' L D

@ = D2 L U' L' D2 L U L' 

Solution: U2 L2 R' B2 D' R B' D' L U' L' D2 L U L' B D' L B' L2 D' L D L2 D2 (25)

2. Scramble: R2 U F' D2 R' U' B U2 R F' R2 B2 D2 F' D2 R2 F' U2 B' D2

Pre: D' L2

EO: F2 # R' U F
2x2x2: D'
2x2x3: U' L' B2 L2 U' B2
L5C: L @ U' L2 U2

@ = L' B' L F' L' B L F
# = F R B2 R' F' R B2 R'

Solution: F' R B2 R' F' R B2 R2 U F D' U' L' B2 L2 U' B L F' L' B L F U' L2 U2 D' L2 (28)

3. Scramble: U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U' L2 U R2 U' L U R2 F' D' B' L' D B U2

2x2x3: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F L'
Switch & L4C: R B U2 B2 R' B R

Skeleton: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F R' @ L' B' R B2 U2 B' R'
@ = R F R' F' R F R' F' R F R' F' (12-3)

Solution: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F2 R' F' R F R' F' R F R' F' L' B' R B2 U2 B' R' (25)

4. Scramble: U2 L2 F L2 F2 U2 R2 B2 R2 B' L' D' F2 D2 F' R U' L2 D' U'

1x2x2: D2 B
Switch & Pseudo-2x2x3: D' R' D' F2 D2
Switch & 2x2x3: F' D'
Switch & Pseudo-F2L: F U' F' B' U2 B
Switch & LL: L' F R2 B' R' B R' F' U

Solution: D2 B F' D' L' F R2 B' R' B R' F' U B' U2 B F U F' D2 F2 D R D (24)

5. Scramble: F2 D2 F2 D' B2 U B2 U2 F2 U' B' R' D' R2 F' L2 U2 F L B'

Start on inverse, EO: R U B' L'
2x2x2: B2
2x2x3: [L2] F D' L2
Pseudo-F2L-1: D' @ F D
L3C: F' D F D' F2 D F D

@ = D B D' F2 D B' D' F2

Solution: D' F' D' F2 D F' D' F D' F D B D' F2 D B' L2 D F' L2 B2 L B U' R' (25)



Edit 2:
PB Average of 12: 26.50 (Had 26.60 twice before ...)
27, (24), 31, 28, 26, (31), 25, 28, 25, 24, 25, 26

PB Average of 50: 27.20 (was 27.39)
27, (24), 26, 27, 30, 26, 28, (DNF), 28, 26, 29, 26, 28, 29, (23), (23), 27, 30, 27, 25, 32, 26, 27, 31, 25, 25, 26, 31, (DNF), 26, 28, 25, 28, 30, 28, 27, 24, 31, 28, 26, 31, 25, 28, 25, 24, 25, 26, 29, 24, 29

Edit 3:
PB Average of 12: 26.30
26, 27, 24, 28, 28, 27, 25, 29, 26, (29), (23), 23


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## 2180161 (Aug 30, 2015)

How to do insertions?


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## porkynator (Sep 2, 2015)

2180161 said:


> How to do insertions?


Here is my tutorial. Page 18.

Weekly competition (I think my solution hasn't been accepted, the old "you've already submitted" problem.


Spoiler



Scramble: U' B2 R' F2 U' B' R U' F2 D' B L2 F2 U2 B D' U2 B D2 L'

B2 U2 F //EO (3/3)
(L' B2) //Blocks (2/5)
R2 L F2 L' //More Blocks (4/9)
R' * D R' //You got it, more blocks (3/12)
U' B2 L B2 //Guess what (4/16)
U2 * R' //All but 3 corners (2/18)
* = B' L2 B R2 B' L2 B R2 //Only 1 move cancels

I've found another AB3C in 18 that lead to a 25 with optimal insertions:
B R2 B R' U' B2
L F2 U
(F' U L U' L' F')
(L' U L' U')

And in my last official competition, all 3 L3C skeletons I checked had 7 moves optimal insertions. It seems I'm on a bad luck streak.


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## Grohmann Matej (Sep 2, 2015)

Here is my 25 moves EO first solution with crazy 15 moves cancel:

Scramble: L2 R2 U2 L2 F2 U B2 R2 B2 U' R' D' L' U' B R' U2 F

F' U' R U2 B'/ EO + 1x2x2 + 2 CE pair (5/5)
switch to inverse
F2 L' U R' D2/ F2L-1 (5/10)
switch to normal
F' D' F2 D F'/ AB2C3E (5/15) // i think this is the best skeleton

first idea:

SKELETON: F' U' R U2 B' F' D' * F2 D F' D2 R U' L F2
* U F2 U' F' U F' U' L' F2 L F L' F L

explain:
premoves: F2 D F' D2 R U' L F2
F' U' R U2 B' F' D'/ F2L
U F2 U' F' U F' U' L' F2 L F L' F L/ 2GLL
F2 D F' D2 R U' L F2/ premoves = 29 moves

next idea was solve edges and make L3C or L4C...

SKELETON: F' U' R U2 B' F' * D' F2 # D F' D2 R U' L F2

* U' % U 
% U F D' F D F2 U' / 6 move cancel / Fat sune
# F' U' F D F' @ U F D' / 5 move cancel
@ F U2 F' D2 F U2 F' D2 / 4 move cancel

final solution: F' U' R U2 B' D' F D F2 D' F U' F D U2 F' D2 F U2 F' U R U' L F2 (25 HTM)


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## illius (Sep 3, 2015)

Hello.

I am an FMC beginner, so could people please give me advice on continuations on this: (and perhaps how I could have been more efficient in block building. Thanks.)

F2 D2 B2 L' B2 L' U2 B2 L D' F' U' B D2 R' B' F' L D2

U F R2 U L2 F’ L’ F // 3x2x1 (4/8)
U’ L U // 3x3x2 (3/11)


-----


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## Kit Clement (Sep 4, 2015)

After having frequent discussions with some friends about how many moves we should expect to cancel on a certain skeleton, we came up with some interesting questions regarding the relationships between skeletons and how many moves they cancel. How many moves should I expect to cancel for a given type of skeleton? Does this vary from person to person? How does the length of the skeleton affect the number of moves cancelled? To answer these questions, we came up with a survey via google form to gather data on this. If you're interested, we'd love to have more people to collect data from. If you do decide to do this, please try to make a conscious effort to put in all of your solves, not just the good ones. 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f15ia0cv1b3TjWSvM3HCE9q9orL8FN7HMcF4qIv4Jyw/viewform

Once we collect enough data, I will share what we find!

EDIT: Also, please don't go through old solutions and enter your data here. The reason being that you will be more likely to save *good* solutions, which means that there will likely be a bias towards solutions where you cancel more moves. If you'd like to participate, just enter your solutions from this moment forward.


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## not_kevin (Sep 4, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> After having frequent discussions with some friends about how many moves we should expect to cancel on a certain skeleton, we came up with some interesting questions regarding the relationships between skeletons and how many moves they cancel. How many moves should I expect to cancel for a given type of skeleton? Does this vary from person to person? How does the length of the skeleton affect the number of moves cancelled? To answer these questions, we came up with a survey via google form to gather data on this. If you're interested, we'd love to have more people to collect data from. If you do decide to do this, please try to make a conscious effort to put in all of your solves, not just the good ones.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f15ia0cv1b3TjWSvM3HCE9q9orL8FN7HMcF4qIv4Jyw/viewform
> 
> ...



I love it - hopefully we can gain some empirical evidence for expected numbers soon :3

A couple quick things about the form:
- Given that there's distinction for the various kinds of L4C, as well as distinction between the 2-comm L6C and the 3-comm L6C, why is there no similar separation for L5C? For example, I got a pair of 2-cycles plus a twist in a solve I did earlier this week, and I feel like it probably shouldn't be lumped with 2-comm L5Cs.
- I feel like having a comments section would be nice to note anything different you did. (As an easy example, in the L5C I did earlier, I used triple sexy to solve 3 corners and cancel 5 moves, which allowed me to beat IF's estimate.)
- For EO, does this refer to having an explicit EO step at any point in the solve, or only if you do it at the beginning? I often do EO Petrus-style, after 2x2x3; does that count?


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## Attila (Sep 4, 2015)

Weekly scramble: (ongoing)
U’ B2 R’ F2 U’ B’ R U’ F2 D’ B L2 F2 U2 B D’ U2 B D2 L’
I want to show an advanced trick, how to solve more edges, before corners permutation. I called it this technique „edges-cloning”. I hope that my explanation is useful, those who are interested the CF method.


Spoiler



Solution: L’ U2 D2 L D L D’ B2 U R2 U’ F2 D R2 B2 D’ F’ U D’ L D2 U’ 22 moves (within 90 mins)
First, as usual, solve all corners and some edges( which found easily)
B R orient corners and 2 edges, 
B’ D2 F L2 F’ U2 B L2 D2 all corners and 3 edges.
After this, I use a second cube for proceed. Left the first cube, right the second (solved) cube.
Right cube rotate x’ z2 ( same place the corners on both cubes, centres ignore now)
Then , return to the original scramble (left cube): D2 L2 B’ U2 F L2 F’ D2 B R’ B’
Same 11 moves (right cube): D2 L2 B’ U2 F L2 F’ D2 B R’ B’
Now compares both cubes, there are 8 corners and 3 edges on same places.
I start again to solve both cubes simultaneously, and try to insert more edges on left cubes (I named this cloning).

inserted moves on left cube:
L’ @ R 5 edges,
insert at @: E2 ( L’ E2 l ) 7 edges,
orient corners (simultaneuosly both cubes) : B R
B’ D2 F L2 F’ U2 B L2 D2 permute corners ( both cubes),
B’ U’ S’ U F’ B2 L5E. (left cube)
Final solution ( left cube): L’ E2 l B R B’ D2 F L2 F’ U2 B L2 D2 B’ U’ S’ U F’ D2


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## Kit Clement (Sep 4, 2015)

not_kevin said:


> I love it - hopefully we can gain some empirical evidence for expected numbers soon :3
> 
> A couple quick things about the form:
> - Given that there's distinction for the various kinds of L4C, as well as distinction between the 2-comm L6C and the 3-comm L6C, why is there no similar separation for L5C? For example, I got a pair of 2-cycles plus a twist in a solve I did earlier this week, and I feel like it probably shouldn't be lumped with 2-comm L5Cs.
> ...



Added the option for L5C with three insertions, as well as a comment section.

I also added more options for the EO question as well to differentiate between going for EO at the very start and going for EO in the middle.


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## not_kevin (Sep 4, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Added the option for L5C with three insertions, as well as a comment section.
> 
> I also added more options for the EO question as well to differentiate between going for EO at the very start and going for EO in the middle.



Great - thanks!

A very very minor note - it looks like 3e4c (pure corner 2-cycles) got placed funny, as did L5C (3 comms) - the 3e4c is after L5C (5-cycle), while L5C is after 3e5c.

Also, maybe have an "other" category, for other kinds of insertions? (Thinking of 4 twisted corners, 4e4c (pure 4-cycles or pure 2-cycles), etc.)


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## obelisk477 (Sep 5, 2015)

If you go from a 2x2x3 to L6C, what are the odds that those corners are solvable in two insertions (so two three-cycles)?
'


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## not_kevin (Sep 5, 2015)

obelisk477 said:


> If you go from a 2x2x3 to L6C, what are the odds that those corners are solvable in two insertions (so two three-cycles)?
> '



If you're just considering the probability that being left with 6 pre-defined corners is going to be solvable in 2 insertions (that is, your extension from 2x2x3 to L6C doesn't influence the distribution of possibilities for L6C other than specifying which two corners are solved), then it's a "basic" counting problem.

The number of two-comm L6C cases is equal to choosing which two sets of corners you have (6 choose 3 = 20), choosing the direction of each cycle (2 * 2 = 4), and choosing the twisted-ness of each cycle's corners (3*3 for each cycle, because they must both be completely solvable on their own, for a total multiplier of 81), so there are 20 * 4 * 81 = 6480 two-comm L6C.

Calculating the number of total L6C cases is a bit more tricky, but there a couple ways of doing it. The one I find easiest is using the inclusion-exclusion principle, where I can isolate what I want by overcounting and undercounting carefully:

There are 6! * 3^5 / 2 = 87480 ways to throw those 6 corners anywhere in the puzzle. Obviously, this number is much larger than the one we want (for example, it includes the case where all the corners are solved). So we subtract the total number of cases where at least one piece is solved:
There are 6 * 5! * 3^4 / 2 = 29160 ways to make sure that when you throw those 6 corners in, one is guaranteed to be solved. The first 6 represents which corner we want to be solved; the 5! * 3^4 / 2 is the total number of ways to throw the remaining 5 corners. But we've definitely overcounted here - eg, the case where all corners are solved is counted 6 times (once for each of its solved corners). So we have to add in the cases where at least 2 pieces are solved:
There are (6 choose 2) * 4! * 3^3 / 2 = 4860 cases for guaranteeing at least two solved pieces (6 choose 2 for choosing which two are solved, and 4! * 3^3 / 2 for (you guessed it ) throwing in the rest. But again we've overcounted, so onto guaranteeing 3 pieces:
There are (6 choose 3) * 3! * 3^2 / 2 = 540 cases for guaranteeing 3 solved pieces,
And (6 choose 4) * 2! * 3^1 / 2 = 45 for guaranteeing 4 solved pieces,
And (6 choose 5) * 1! * 1 = 6 for guaranteeing 5 solved pieces,
And finally (6 choose 6) = 1 way to guarantee all 6 pieces solved.

So, we combine: 87480 - 29160 + 4860 - 540 + 45 - 6 + 1 = 62680 total L6C cases.

Therefore, the probability is 6480 / 62680 ~ 10.34%.


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## not_kevin (Sep 6, 2015)

My winning solution from Utah Megacomp 2015:

Scramble: L2 D2 U2 F2 L2 B' D2 B F2 U' L2 R' D' F' R' F2 D' L2
Solution: D L U' L' D' L U L2 B2 L' F U R' D2 R' U R D2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 D (24 moves)



Spoiler



L' B2 L' // EO + 1x1x3 [3/3]
F // wait why are all the edges solving [1/4]
U R2 // build 1x2x3 pseudo 2x-cross [2/6]
U R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 D // solve edges while preserving UB(l) pair, L5C [7/13]

Skeleton: (2) L' B2 L' F U R2 (1) U R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 D
Insert at (1): R D2 R' U' R D2 R' U' // cancels 4
Insert at (2): D L U' L' D' L U L' // cancels 1

I found that this scramble was pretty bad for block-building, so I decided to try some EO stuff. F2/B2 EO can be done with L2 F' (which also makes a pair), but I didn't find anything much out of that; around 15 or 20 minutes, I found L' B2 L to give L2/R2 EO with a block. This led into some cute skeletons, but nothing great (a whole bunch of 24 -> L4C, for example). Around 30 minutes in, I accidentally did L' B2 L (note to self: EO is really flexible sometimes ), and was liek "uh k", and just kinda went with it. The more intuitive finish (doing L' B2 L' -> F -> U' R2 U2 R2 D U' for 10 -> L6C [4 + 2]) was a bit too ambitious for me to play with, since I didn't immediately find an amazing cancel anywhere. IF says that it's optimally a 23, 'tho 

But based on this skeleton, I'm wondering if there's some way to finish it with two-phase or something...


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## okayama (Sep 6, 2015)

My solution for FMC round 89, missing in the site.

Scramble: U' B2 R' F2 U' B' R U' F2 D' B L2 F2 U2 B D' U2 B D2 L'
Solution: B2 U2 F R' U' B2 F2 L U' L U L2 U' L2 U2 L U2 L U' L F2 U2 L2 (23 moves)


Spoiler



(Normal)

Orient edges: B2 U2 F
2x2x2 block: R' U' B2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: U F2 B2 U R F' U2 B2

2x2x3 block: L2 U2 F2
Finish F2L: L' U L' U2 L' U2
LL: L2 U L2 U' L' U L' U'
Correction: U F2 B2 U R F' U2 B2


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## Cale S (Sep 6, 2015)

not_kevin said:


> My winning solution from Utah Megacomp 2015:
> 
> Scramble: L2 D2 U2 F2 L2 B' D2 B F2 U' L2 R' D' F' R' F2 D' L2
> Solution: D L U' L' D' L U L2 B2 L' F U R' D2 R' U R D2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 D (24 moves)
> ...



You can get to L6C in a slightly different way for a 22 move solution:


Spoiler



L' B2 L' // EO
F D U2 B2 U2 B2 // to L6C

with IF insertions:
L' B L' F L2 F2 L' B L F2 L2 D' U2 B' U' B D2 B' U B' U2 B2 (22)


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## Wilhelm (Sep 6, 2015)

My 25 from German Nationals

Scramble: L2 U2 R2 B2 L B2 R B L U2 F' D B2 U' L2 B' R B'
Inverse: B R' B L2 U B2 D' F U2 L' B' R' B2 L' B2 R2 U2 L2
On Inverse

Pre: D' (1/1)
EO: R2 D R (3/4)
2x2x2: U' F U (3/7)
2x2x3: D2 R2 D' R2 (4/11)
To L5C: D' F' D F' D2 F' (6/17)

Skeleton: D F D2 F D' F D R2 D* R2 D2 U' F' U# R' D' R2

*= D' L D R2 D' L' D R2 (8-5)
#= U' F' D2 F U F' D2 F (8-3)

Solution: D F D2 F D' F D R2 L D R2 D' L' D' U' F2 D2 F U F' D2 F R' D' R2
Optimal Insertions

I'm really happy with the solution. Overall I got pretty lucky ^^. I think the 2x2x3 is quite obvious and I was surprised that nobody else used it. The continuation initially was a meant to be a backup solution but ended up being the best option I could find. At first I didn't count how many moves I did to get to L5C. I was going to build a Pseudo F2l-1 and wrote down a D' instead of a D. The Pseudo F2L's that I tried were terrible because they left me with L5C with a twisted corner in either 17 or 18 moves if I remember correctly. Switching didn't help.
When I started inserting after roughly 30 minutes I wasn't expecting too much because I needed to cancel 4 moves to tie my old PB. When I found the 5 move cancel I had 15 minutes left and wanted to play it safe and started doing my second insertion. At the time I had a 28 move solution without any further cancellations. I was really happy when I found a 1 move cancel right at the beginning. I was pretty sure that I wouldn't find much more as I only had 5 moves left to check. I was hoping to podium with that. But then I tried to cancel two moves at the U which didn't work at first but then I managed to do it. I was really excited and when writing down my solution I found that I could cancel even 1 more move ^^. 
I didn't expect to win at all because I think the first part of my solution was easy to find and I didn't think I would cancel 8 moves! I just recently started doing FMC again and beat my overall PB by one move with this. I probably won't beat the 25 in a long time . Now I got to work on my official mean


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## not_kevin (Sep 7, 2015)

Cale S said:


> You can get to L6C in a slightly different way for a 22 move solution:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Yeah, Kit showed the scramble to Mark, who found the same skeleton. I feel dumb for not seeing that


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## Joey VOV (Sep 7, 2015)

Utah Megacomp
Scramble: L2 D2 U2 F2 L2 B' D2 B F2 U' L2 R' D' F' R' F2 D' L2
Inverse: L2 D F2 R F D R L2 U F2 B' D2 B L2 F2 U2 D2 L2

on normal:
premoves: F D U B2 U' 
B D B' D L2 / 223 + 221 BLOCK (10)
R D2 R' B2 / TO L5C (14)

skeleton: B D ^B' D L2 R D2 R' B2 F U D B2 U' 
insert at ^: U' F2 U B' U' F2 U B
updted skeleton: B D U' F2 U B' U' F2 U D L2 R D2 R' *B2 F U D B2 U' 
Insert at *: R' B' L' B R B' L B 

final solution: B D U' F2 U B' U' F2 U D L2 R D2 R2 B' L' B R B' L B' F U D B2 U' (26) 

Very happy with the skeleton, VERY unhappy with the insertions. 32 different ways to cancel 4 moves, but no more than 4, so my 26 is optimal for a 14 move skeleton :/


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## AlphaSheep (Sep 9, 2015)

I got this 29 move solution on the African Cubing facebook group's comp a couple weeks ago, which I was quite proud of at the time. I thought I'd post it here for some critique and advice.

Scramble: L2 U2 B2 R2 B2 R2 D R2 D' R2 B' U B2 R U B2 F2 L D2 L'

F2 D' F U F' // 2x2x2
U R' B' U (R') // 2x2x3
(R) B' R' (B') // F2L-1
(B) L U2 L' B' // EO
R' U R // Noticed the 3 edge + 3 corner cycles to finish. Wasn't intentional, but went with it

Skeleton: * F2 D' F U F' U R' B' U B' R' L U2 L' B' R' U R (18)

Insert at *: D2 ^ R' L B2 R L' (only one I tried)
Insert at ^: D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R (Cancels 3 moves... Last one I tried since I start from the end and work backward through the skeleton)

Solution: D' R' U2 R D' R' U2 L B2 R L' F2 D' F U F' U R' B' U B' R' L U2 L' B' R' U R (29)


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## CyanSandwich (Sep 10, 2015)

Weekly FMC spoilers:



Spoiler



Got a 24 mover. PB by 5 moves.

B D' L U2 F2 R L2 D2 F' L' R2 F L U F2 B2 U2 F D2 L2
i: L2 D2 F' U2 B2 F2 U' L' F' R2 L F D2 L2 R' F2 U2 L' D B'

inv
D U F' L2 R2 F2 R2 U' //2x2x3 (8)

switch
F' R2 F R' U' R' D R2 D' U F2 //L3C (11/19)

Skeleton: F' R2 F R' U' R' D R2 D' U F2 (1) U R2 F2 R2 L2 F U' D'

(1) = F' D' F U F' D F U'

Solution: F' R2 F R' U' R' D R2 D' U F D' F U F' D F R2 F2 R2 L2 F U' D'


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## porkynator (Sep 10, 2015)

CyanSandwich said:


> Weekly FMC spoilers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



You could use one fewer move for L3C; after switching, very similar to your solution:
F' R2 F R' U' 
R U D' F2 D
But IF says you would still get a 24


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## CyanSandwich (Sep 10, 2015)

porkynator said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh cool. I feel silly for missing that, but it might have been worse if I didn't.


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## okayama (Sep 13, 2015)

My winning solution from Tohoku Open 2015.

Scramble: R' D2 F2 R U2 B2 L2 B2 R2 B U F U2 F' D2 R2 D' U' B' U
Solution: L' R B' L B R B' L' F2 L D2 U F' D' U2 L U' F' L F2 L' F' L' F' L' F2 L' (27 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

2 c/e pairs: L'
1st square: R2 * F2
2nd square: B' L
2x2x3 block: D U2
Orient edges: D U' F' D' U2 L U'
All but 3 corners: F' L F2 L' F' L' F' L' F2 L'

Insert at *: R' B' L B R B' L' B

On inverse, F2 or L2 also makes 2 c/e pairs, but I couldn't find any better solution.


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## Cale S (Sep 13, 2015)

23 move solution for the ongoing weekly FMC, one move from pb


Spoiler



F2 U2 D' R2 B2 U2 R' D2 U2 L2 R' D2 U2 B' D' F U2 D B R

(L' D2) // square
(F U' F2) // 2x2x2
D' L' B2 // 2x2x3 
(F' D' F) // EO 
D' L' D2 L2 F' D' F // F2L
F' L' D' L D F // to L3C

skeleton: D' * L' B2 D' L' D2 L2 F' D' L' D' L D2 F' U F' D2 L 
insert at *: [F, L' B L] // L3C, cancels 3

Final solution: D' F L' B L F' L' B D' L' D2 L2 F' D' L' D' L D2 F' U F' D2 L (23)


Interestingly, both my 22 pb and this both have no R moves in the solution...


also makes a 25.33 mo3: 27, 26, 23
and a 27.00 avg5: 28, 28, 27, 26, 23 (hopefully I can roll this next week)


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## Mark Boyanowski (Sep 16, 2015)

Now that I've gotten into FMC a lot more I've been looking at scrambles from comps I was at before I knew all the techniques I know now. I remembered the third scramble from Another FMC 2015, which had a 2x2x1 already done. I got a 30 on it officially, here's what I got just now (moves in parenthesis done on inverse):

Scramble: R2 F' U' F2 L' U R' L2 F R2 D2 L F2 R' F2 L U2 D2

L // 2x2x2
F' R F' R2 // 2X2X3
F // Pseudo F2L -1
(F) // Fix pseudo
(L' U2 L2 F' L' F) // EO
(F U F') // 3C

Skeleton (1 move cancels with NISS): L F' R F' R2 F2 U' F2 L % F L2 U2 L F'

% = U B' U' F U B U' F' 

Final solution, 20 moves: L F' R F' R2 F2 U' F2 L U B' U' F U B U' L2 U2 L F'

Not sure if I'm happy or really upset


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## Cale S (Sep 16, 2015)

Haha I got 23 for both of my weekly competitions this week


Spoiler



Scramble: F2 L2 U2 B2 R2 D' F2 U' L2 D L2 R' U' R2 F D B U B L2

(U' L') // EO 
(F R2) // square 
R2 D // 2x2x2 
(L2 B2 U' F U2 F') // 2x2x3 
(U B2) // F2L - 1 
(U' B' U2 B U' B' U2 B) // to L3C 

skeleton: R2 D B' U2 B U B' U2 B U B2 U' F U2 % F' U B2 L2 R2 F' L U 
%=[U B2 U', F'] // L3C, cancels 7 

final solution: R2 D B' U2 B U B' U2 B U B2 U' F U' B2 U' F' U L2 R2 F' L U (23) 


Initially I did a block comm on normal to get to L3C which resulted in a 27, but then I tried this (inserting the pair and cancelling into a sune) which was a different 22 move skeleton giving a much better insertion.


My past 3 attempts have been 26, 23, 23 = 24.00 mean (also would make a 25.33 avg5 and 27.2 avg12) but I'm only counting Weekly FMC solves for my average pb's


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## EMI (Sep 19, 2015)

Wilhelm said:


> My 25 from German Nationals
> 
> Scramble: L2 U2 R2 B2 L B2 R B L U2 F' D B2 U' L2 B' R B'
> Inverse: B R' B L2 U B2 D' F U2 L' B' R' B2 L' B2 R2 U2 L2
> ...



I just checked my solution sheet, and I did actually find your start in the last five or so minutes.

On inverse:
Your 2x2x3 + EO: R2 D R U' F U D2 R2 D' R2
F2l-ish: D' F' D' F2 D'

I didn't have any time left to look further into this, so I went with my backup solution:

Start on normal,
Pseudo-2x2x2: D R' @ F U' F
2x2x3: D' R2 D R2 U
Switch, Pseudo-F2L + EO: F' R D' F D F
Switch, L3C: F2 D' F' R' F R D

Lucky insertion: @ = R B R' F R B' R' F'

Total: D B R' F R B' R' U' F D' R2 D R2 U F2 D' F' R' F R D F' D' F' D R' F (27)


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## okayama (Sep 22, 2015)

My solution from Japan Open 2015 (got 2nd place).

Scramble: R2 U2 B2 L B2 D2 U2 R2 D2 U' F2 U F R2 D' B' D2 R D2
Solution: F' L U L2 F' U2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 D F' U F' U F' U F U' F U' F' U' L F2 L2 U2 D2 F2 D' R' (33 moves)


Spoiler



20 min backup solution.

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L' D2 F2 D' R' 

2x2x2 block: (ready)
2x2x3 block: F' L U L2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L2 U' L' F

2x2x2 block: R D F2 D2
2x2x3 block: L
Orient edges: L' U2 L2 F2 L'
Finish F2L: U F U F' U F' U' F2
All but 3 corners: F' U' F U' F' * U2 F
Correction: L2 U' L' F

Insert at *: F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 D

In the remaining time, I investigated the following start:

(Inverse)
1st square: D' L R' F'
Orient edges: D
c/e pair: L'

[1] D2 R' B L2 B' R2 D2 R L U2
[2] D2 B R2 F R L2 B2 L
[3] D2 B R2 F R U2 R' L' U2

but I couldn't finish any of them. 
After [3], R B' R B' leaves 5 corners, which should have resulted in 29 moves.


EDIT:
After the competition, Fumiya Matsui found the following skeleton almost linearly.


Spoiler



(Inverse)

2x2x2 block: R D F2 D2 (he didn't find this in the competition, but Yuki Tanaka told him)
2 c/e pairs: F U2 F2
More square: U' F L' F2
Expand the block: B
Finish F2L: L B' L2 F2 R' F R L'
All but 3 corners: L U * F U' F' L'

Insert at *: U B U' F U B' U' F'

which results in 28 moves.


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## Joey VOV (Sep 23, 2015)

Scramble: U2 F2 R F2 D2 L U2 L2 D2 L' D B2 U' R' D F U' L2 F
Inverse: F' L2 U F' D' R U B2 D' L D2 L2 U2 L' D2 F2 R' F2 U2

on normal:
L2 F2 U F /E0 (4)

So many continuations, brain stops working.


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## henrysavich (Sep 30, 2015)

Here's a 36 move FMC solve I just did, would appreciate some critiques ( I average around mid to high 30's)

Scramble: D' L' D' F' U L F L2 U B U2 R2 F' R2 D2 F' L2 U2 F' L2
Inverse: L2 F U2 L2 F D2 R2 F R2 U2 B' U' L2 F' L' U' F D L D
Solution on inverse: D B R D B' F' R2 D L' D2 B L2 B' F' D2 F L2 D F L F' U L B L' B2 U R2 D' F D R2 U2 B L' D2
Final Solution: D2 L B' U2 R2 D' F' D R2 U' B2 L B' L' U' F L' F' D' L2 F' D2 F B L2 B' D2 L D' R2 F B D' R' B' D'

And a walkthrough of it
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On inverse:
*Premove D2 (1/1)*
* D B R D B' F' R2 (7/8)// 2x2x2*- I found a 7-move block on normal as well, but inverse had a better immediate continuation
*D L' D2 B L2 B' (6/14)// 2x2x3* - aforementioned "Good continuation"
*F' D2 F L2 D F L F' (8/22)// F2L* - Where the premove comes from, I tried a couple of different D-face premoves to facilitate this step. Is it worth it to look at EO after 2x2x3 (like in Petrus)?
*U L B L' B2 U R2 D' F D R2 U2 B L' (14/36)// LL* - I did EO with inverse fruruf, and then ZBLL here. I switched to regular here and didn't find much better, and on 
neither of them could I find a way to
setup for an insertion.

Thanks in advance!


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## CyanSandwich (Oct 2, 2015)

Waste of an easy scramble right here, I'm sure someone can find a decent continuation:

R2 F D2 U2 F2 D2 U2 R2 F' D2 L2 D' R U L2 F' L R D B F'

B L' R' F R' D' //2x2x3 (6/6)
//CFOP
F' U' R' D' F2 D R
F' U2 R U R' U'
U' F U' F' U2 F
U' R B' R F2 R' B R F2 R2 (29/35)

I had the 2x2x3 in like 2 minutes, but I couldn't find any good continuations. I finished with CFOP when I had a few minutes left.


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## Torch (Oct 2, 2015)

CyanSandwich said:


> Waste of an easy scramble right here, I'm sure someone can find a decent continuation:
> 
> R2 F D2 U2 F2 D2 U2 R2 F' D2 L2 D' R U L2 F' L R D B F'
> 
> ...




B L' R' F R' D' //2x2x3
F2 L' U' L R' F' R F' U2 F'//F2L 
switch to inverse: F R B' R B R2 F'//2c2e

Skeleton: B L' R' F R' D' F2 L' U' L R' F' R F' U2 R2 B' R' B R' F' (21)

I don't really know how to do 2c2e insertions though.


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## Cale S (Oct 2, 2015)

CyanSandwich said:


> Waste of an easy scramble right here, I'm sure someone can find a decent continuation:
> 
> R2 F D2 U2 F2 D2 U2 R2 F' D2 L2 D' R U L2 F' L R D B F'
> 
> ...



I started with a shorter 2x2x3 and found this:

B L' // pseudo 2x2x2
U' R2 // pseudo 2x2x3
(D) // 2x2x3
(L F2 L') // orient two edges
F' U F' // F2L - 1
(F R U R' U' F') // to L5C

L5C skeleton:
B L' U' R2 F' U2 R U' R' F' L F2 L' % D'
insert at %: [R2, D' L D]

L3C skeleton:
B L' U' R2 F' U2 R U' R' F' L F2 L' R2 D' & L D R2 D' L'
insert at &: [U', L D' L']

final solution: B L' U' R2 F' U2 R U' R' F' L F2 L' R2 D' U' L D' L' U L D2 R2 D' L' (25)


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## not_kevin (Oct 7, 2015)

My winning solutions to BASC PBQ 2015. I need to learn how to handle the too-many-options problem better 

Scramble 1: D' B R U B' U L2 F B' R2 D L2 F2 U2 L2 D2 L' F2 U2
Inverse 1: U2 F2 L D2 L2 U2 F2 L2 D' R2 B F' L2 U' B U' R' B' D
Solution 1: R B' L' F2 L2 B L' F2 R2 F2 D' U2 F' D2 F U2 F' D2 R D R2 D' R D2 R (25 moves)



Spoiler



Starting with the obvious pair insert on UBL, I used B' L B L' as a guide and slowly added moves here and there to make a 2x2x3:
R B' L' F2 L2 B L' F' // 2x2x3 [8/8]
F' R2 F2 D' F' // EO [4/12]
switch to inverse, with premoves F D F2 R2 F2 L B' L2 F2 L B R':
R' D2 // F2L-1 [2/14]
R' D R2 D' R' // AB3C [5/19]

Skeleton: R B' L' F2 L2 B L' F2 R2 F2 D' F' * R D R2 D' R D2 R
Insert at *: F U2 F' D2 F U2 F' D2 // cancels 2 [6/25]



Scramble 2: L R B2 F2 L' U2 F2 L' B2 R F' R2 U L2 D' F' U2 F D2 U'
Inverse 2: U D2 F' U2 F D L2 U' R2 F R' B2 L F2 U2 L F2 B2 R' L'
Solution 2: D B' F' U' F R2 U R2 F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2 D L2 D2 L' U2 B R2 B R B' R D L B L' B' D' B' (33 moves)



Spoiler



D' // make a pair [1/1]
B' // make a pair [1/2]
F' U' F R2 U R2 // get a square while wasting moves [6/8]
D2 L2 D2 L' U2 // 2x2x3 plus some pairs [5/13]
B R2 B R B' R // F2L [6/19]
D L B L' B' D' B' // AB3C [7/26]

Skeleton: D B' F' U' F R2 U R2 * D2 L2 D2 L' U2 B R2 B R B' R D L B L' B' D' B'
Insert at *: F2 D B' D' F2 D B' D' // cancels 1 [7/33]

This scramble made me pretty sad - there were so many different starts, but nothing seemed to work out for me. I had somehow found a 20 to 5 corners in the first few minutes, but I didn't write down how, and I couldn't rederive it. The insertion only being 7 optimal was also :<

I also played around with doing D U B' F D' F' for F2/B2 EO, but every time I did it, I got lost in options-land, and they all seemed to have parity.



Scramble 3: R' L2 F2 L2 U F2 L D' B U D R2 F2 D L2 F2 R2 D2 B2 D2
Inverse 3: D2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L2 D' F2 R2 D' U' B' D L' F2 U' L2 F2 L2 R
Solution 1: B' F U' L' D R F2 R2 L D F2 D F2 U F U' F' R B R' F R B' U' R2 U R (27 moves)



Spoiler



B' F U' L' D (L) // 2x2x2 plus 3 pairs [6/6]
(L') R F2 R2 L (D2) // 2x2x3 plus stuff [4/10]
(D') F2 D (F') // F2L-1 [3/13]
switch to inverse with premoves F D' F2 D' L' R2 F2 R' D' L U F' B:
R' U' R2 U R' U F' U' (F) // AB3C [8/21]

Skeleton: B' F U' L' D R F2 R2 L D F2 D F2 U F U' * R U' R2 U R
Insert at *: F' R B R' F R B' R' // cancels 2 [6/27]

This was basically an exercise in "do a fairly obvious thing while preserving stuff". I think this is the first time I've had the switch cancel moves on me, too


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## TheDubDubJr (Oct 7, 2015)

not_kevin said:


> My winning solutions to BASC PBQ 2015. I need to learn how to handle the too-many-options problem better



Here you go <3

Tried all 3 scrambles with Mark Boyanowski on Sunday night

Scramble 1: D' B R U B' U L2 F B' R2 D L2 F2 U2 L2 D2 L' F2 U2
Inverse 1: U2 F2 L D2 L2 U2 F2 L2 D' R2 B F' L2 U' B U' R' B' D
Solution 1: D2 L R' F2 R B' R' F2 R U' F2 D' R' D R' D' R2 D U2 R F R' F' B U2 B' L2 B U2 (29 moves)



Spoiler



n D2 L B' U' // EO
switch with added premove F2
i U2 B' L2 // 2x2x3 
B U2 B' // Block
F R F' R' U2 // F2L-corner
D' R2 D R D' R D // 23 to L3C

D2 L (R' F2 R B' R' F2 R B) B' U' F2 D' R' D R' D' R2 D U2 R F R' F' B U2 B' L2 B U2 // cancel 2



Scramble 2: L R B2 F2 L' U2 F2 L' B2 R F' R2 U L2 D' F' U2 F D2 U'
Inverse 2: U D2 F' U2 F D L2 U' R2 F R' B2 L F2 U2 L F2 B2 R' L'
Solution 2: B' U' B D U F2 U' B' U F B R2 U' F L' F2 L2 F' D2 F L' F2 B' U2 D2 (25 moves)



Spoiler



n D F' R2 U' // EO
switch
i D2 U2 B // 2x2x2
F2 L F' D2 // 2x2x3
F L2 F2 L F' // 16 to L5C

(234 B' U' B D (451 U F2 U' B' U F2 U' B) B' U B D') D F' R2 U' F L' F2 L2 F' D2 F L' F2 B' U2 D2 // cancel 7



Scramble 3: R' L2 F2 L2 U F2 L D' B U D R2 F2 D L2 F2 R2 D2 B2 D2
Inverse 3: D2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L2 D' F2 R2 D' U' B' D L' F2 U' L2 F2 L2 R
Solution 1: D2 B2 L2 F2 B2 D' R' U R L D R2 D' L' D R U' B2 R F2 R F' U2 D' L R' U' (27 moves)



Spoiler



i U R L' D // EO
U2 F R' // 2x2x2
switch
D2 B2 L2 // F2L-2
F2 B2 R' B2 R F2 // 16 to L5C

D2 B2 L2 F2 B2 (345 D' R' U R (512 L D R2 D' L' D R2 D') D R' U' R) R' B2 R F2 R F' U2 D' L R' U' // cancels 5



*29, 25, 27 = 27.00 Mean*


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## not_kevin (Oct 7, 2015)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Here you go <3
> 
> Tried all 3 scrambles with Mark Boyanowski on Sunday night
> 
> ...



Dang, I need to get better at EO  Also, nice first solution!


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## Ranzha (Oct 7, 2015)

From Please Be Quiet 2015:

Scramble 1: D' B R U B' U L2 F B' R2 D L2 F2 U2 L2 D2 L' F2 U2
Inverse 1: U2 F2 L D2 L2 U2 F2 L2 D' R2 B F' L2 U' B U' R' B' D
Solution 1: R B' L' F' L2 F2 L B' L' F2 L B2 L2 F2 B R L B' L' F2 L B L' F2 B' R2 D2 F D' F' D2 (31 moves attempted, DNF)



Spoiler



R B' // Square and pair
L' F' L' B L2 F2 // 2x2x3
B R B' R2 // F2L-1
D2 F D' F' D2 // 17 to AB4C

R B' L' F' L' (L' F2 L B' L' F2 L B) B L2 F2 B R (L B L' F2 L B' L' F2) B' R2 D2 F D' F' D2 // cancels 2

Final: R B' L' F' L2 F2 L B' L' F2 L B2 L2 F2 B R L B L' F2 L B' L' F2 B' R2 D2 F D' F' D2 (31 moves)

I had a different second insertion that I thought would have cancelled 2, but with 2 minutes left I realised it didn't work, so I panicked, opted for this, and rushed to write the final solution and wrote the red move incorrectly as F instead of F2. vbj



Scramble 2: L R B2 F2 L' U2 F2 L' B2 R F' R2 U L2 D' F' U2 F D2 U'
Inverse 2: U D2 F' U2 F D L2 U' R2 F R' B2 L F2 U2 L F2 B2 R' L'
Solution 2: R' D' L2 D2 L' R' B2 R2 B' R' U B U' D' R D R' D B' L B' L' D' R D B D' B' R' B2 U2 (31 moves)



Spoiler



R' D' L2 D2 L' // 2x2x2
switch // to search for decent premoves
U2 // ooooooh
switch
R' B2 R2 B' R' // 2x-cross
U B U' // F2L-1
// it was here that I couldn't find much anything
D' R D R' // CP
D B2 D' // F2L
D B L B' L' D' R D B D' B' R' B2 // LL (31)

Final: R' D' L2 D2 L' R' B2 R2 B' R' U B U' D' R D R' D B' L B' L' D' R D B D' B' R' B2 U2 (31 moves)



Scramble 3: R' L2 F2 L2 U F2 L D' B U D R2 F2 D L2 F2 R2 D2 B2 D2
Inverse 3: D2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L2 D' F2 R2 D' U' B' D L' F2 U' L2 F2 L2 R
Solution 3: B' F U' L' D L D B' D2 B D2 L D L' F L' F' L B2 U F' R2 F U' B' D2 B' R2 F2 R D2 F (32 moves)



Spoiler



B' F U'
switch
F' D2 R' F2 R2 // pairs galore
switch
L' D L D // 2x2x2
B' D2 B // wat
D2 L D L' F L' F' L // F2L+EO
B2 U F' R2 F U' B' U2 B' // LL (32)

Final: B' F U' L' D L D B' D2 B D2 L D L' F L' F' L B2 U F' R2 F U' B' D2 B' R2 F2 R D2 F (32 moves)



*DNF(31), 31, 32 = DNF Mean*


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## Sam N (Oct 11, 2015)

Here is my solution to the weekly competition week 41 FMC.



Spoiler



Scramble: U2 R2 B2 R U L' F2 D' L U2 B2 R' D2 R' F2 D2 L' D2 L2 

Solution: L U' L B' U F2 L U2 L'U B R' U2 R D B D2 R2 F' U2 F' U2 F2 R2 D





Spoiler



L U' L B' U F2 - 5 move 2x2x3 block (there was a 8 or 9 move f2l-1 but I could not find anything useful with it at all) 

L U2 L'U B R' U2 R - Finish up F2L (I tried solving the yellow face then saw a really nice way to do the green face so I used that instead) 

OLL- D B D2 R2 F' U2 F' U2 F2 R2 D



I was wondering if anyone could find something useful in this start:

L U' L B' U F2 U B U2 

It's a 9-move f2l-1 which seems good, but I couldn't find anything useful with it.


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## guusrs (Oct 17, 2015)

19 moves WR for Tim Wong last week during Irving Fall:
Scramble: R2 B' U2 L2 B2 D2 R2 B R' D2 B' D F D L B2 D' U2
On inverse:
F2L-corner: R2 F L2 B' R' F2 B L B2 (9)
continue with block building: R D' F D2 F' (14)
don't solve F2L but solve corners: L' D R' D' L (19) 

Quite easy, but appearantly no other competitor found this solution.


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## Sam N (Oct 17, 2015)

guusrs said:


> 19 moves WR for Tim Wong last week during Irving Fall:
> Scramble: R2 B' U2 L2 B2 D2 R2 B R' D2 B' D F D L B2 D' U2
> On inverse:
> F2L-corner: R2 F L2 B' R' F2 B L B2 (9)
> ...



Mostly due to cfop being overlooked during the last layer. As Micheal said, the unseen cfop is the deadliest. The last layer was still quite impressive though.


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## Bubtore (Oct 26, 2015)

Scramble // F2 L2 R2 U2 B L2 B' R2 B' L2 F2 D B D' B U2 R' U2 F D' B

222 // D' F' - 2
223 // B' L2 D * L D' L - 6
F2L-1 + EO // D' R + D' R' B' D' B' D - 8

* D R D' L2 D R' D' L2 - 6
+ R' D L' D' R D L D' - 0 (wow ?!)

Final Solution // D' F' B' L2 D2 R D' L2 D R' D' L' D2 R D L D2 R' B' D' B' D - 22 Moves

That insertion ! I checked the construction of the skeleton again, and I have to say that I even though I knew the solution by then, I had troubles getting to that L3C which has the same amount of moves as the L5C.


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## tseitsei (Oct 26, 2015)

The first solve of Finnish Championships FMC. I found nice looking start with 13 moves. EO done pseudoF2L-1 done and blocks everywhere. But I couldn't find any good finish and ended up DNFing. So I hope that one of you guys could find it for me 

scramble: U' L2 R2 B2 U R2 D L2 R U' B R2 B L B2 L2 B' U R2

My start:
On inverse: U' D2 R F R //eo and 2 pairs
Normal with premoves R' F' R' D2 U
L B2 R L' U' D' R' U2 //awesome blocks

After that I couldn't find anything even remotely good but I'm quite sure there is some good finish because there are SO many blocks... Plz help


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## irontwig (Oct 26, 2015)

Well there's B D B' D' L' D2 L' to leave three edges, there's probably something better, especially if you know the ZBLL.


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## not_kevin (Oct 27, 2015)

My winning 28 mean for FMC USA 2015  The first scramble was... poor  But the other two were fairly nice/lucky 

Scramble 1: F U B' L' F' U F2 D2 R' U' L2 D' F2 R2 U' R2 U' L2 U R2
Inverse 1: R2 U' L2 U R2 U R2 F2 D L2 U R D2 F2 U' F L B U' F'
Solution 1: B D' F' R' B2 F2 D U2 F D F L2 F' R' F L2 F2 R F U F2 U2 F' U' F U L2 D' B D' B' D2 L2 (33 moves)


Spoiler



Starting on normal:
B D' F' R' B2 F2 D2 // 2x2x2 (7/7)
D' U2 F D // 2x2x3, cancel 1 (3/10)
R' F' R // EO+pair (3/13)
F U F2 U2 // F2L-1 + pair (4/17)
F U' F U // square (4/21)
L2 D' B D' B' D2 L2 // AB3C (7/28)

Skeleton:
B D' F' R' B2 F2 D U2 F D * R' F' R F U F2 U2 F' U' F U L2 D' B D' B' D2 L2
*: F L2 F' R' F L2 F' R // cancels 3 (5/33)

I wasted a lot of time with the start (D' L) off the inverse, which did some nice EO and solved 4 corners, but I don't know how to properly do CF  As a result, I basically found myself left with around 20 minutes and no good skeleton, so I finally bashed around until I found this 28 -> 3 corners and just inserted, with maybe 8 minutes left. Got halfway through, found the 3-cancel, had maybe 3 minutes left, decided that a 3-cancel was probably optimal, and submitted. Fortunately I was right 



Also, Ravi Fernando's 26 on the first scramble: L R' B R B' L' D2 L D L' R D R' D2 L' D2 R' D' R' B' R2 D U' R' B' R'


Spoiler



Copied from his Facebook post:



> As executed:
> Inverse scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 U R2 F2 D L2 U R D2 F2 U' F L B U' F'
> Solution:
> y F R F U y' D' R2 B R D R D2 L // 2x-cross on white
> ...






Scramble 2: D' L2 F2 R2 U L2 D2 R2 B' R U L2 U F' U2 F' U B U'
Inverse 2: U B' U' F U2 F U' L2 U' R' B R2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 L2 D
Solution 2: L2 R' B' U D2 L2 R' U' B2 R' B' U R' F R F2 U2 F2 R' F' R2 B' R (23 moves)


Spoiler



Starting on normal:
L2 R' B' U D2 L2 // 2x2x2 with pairs (6/6)
R' U' B2 R' B' // pseudo F2L-1 (5/11)
switch to inverse, with premoves B R B2 U R L2 D2 U' B R L2:
(R' B R') // F2L-1 (3/14)
(R' F R F2 U2 F2 R' F' R U') // how dose u do that pair? cancels 1 (9/23)

I found this with about 20 minutes left, and spent a good chunk of the remaining time just double-checking my solution, to make sure I didn't make a typo anywhere 



Scramble 3: U' F2 U' F2 L2 U L U2 B L2 R' B L' F2 U' R U2 R2
Inverse 3: R2 U2 R' U F2 L B' R L2 B' U2 L' U' L2 F2 U F2 U
Solution 3: L U2 L' D' L U2 L' U R U2 D2 F' U F D U' R' D R' F' R' F R F' R' F R' U (28 moves)


Spoiler



On normal, with U premove:
D' // pair (1/2)
U R U2 // 2x2x2 + pair (3/5)
F' U F U' // 2xcross + pair (4/9)
D' R' D R // uh... tripod? (4/13)
R2 F' R' F R F' R' F R' // AB2C, cancels 1 (8/21)

Skeleton:
+ D' U R U2 F' U F * U' D' R' D R' F' R F R F' R' F R' U
*: F' U' F D2 F' U F D2 // cancels 7 (1/22)
+: L U2 L' D' L U2 L' D // cancels 2 (6/28)

I also had found the continuation R F' R F R2 after the tripod, for 17 to 4 corners, by around the 20-minute mark. However, due to my inexperience with 2+2 cycles, I quickly got lost in finding insertions, so I decided to play it safe with about 25 minutes left, and did the 2-twisted insertion first, going back later to see if there was anything that immediately stood out in the 4C case. I didn't find anything quickly, so I just stuck with the 28. IF told me that the 4C was 27 optimal, and I did mine optimally, so I'm not too sad with my decision  I should work on 4C, 'tho...


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## RhysC (Oct 27, 2015)

This is kind of a one-answer question thing, but I thought I would get more replies on the fmc thread. 

Pure corner 3-cycles should go either ABA'B' or BAB'A' (if you send the non-interchange to the wrong place )

However, take niklas (pieces J> B> E)

The standard comm has R as the interchange and (U' L' U) as the trigger. Doing the trigger with the raw case sends E to B, when E needs to go to J. This means we do BAB'A', which gives us the comm:
R (U' L' U) R' (U' L U)

However, 

With the same cycle, we can use the interchange B. This would leave us with a trigger of (U F U'). Since we are sending the non-interchange to its correct position, we use the comm ABA'B', being:
(U F U') B (U F' U') B'

But that doesn't work. 

Help?


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## ch_ts (Oct 27, 2015)

Your B should be B':
(U F U') B' (U F' U') B


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## Torch (Oct 27, 2015)

not_kevin said:


> My winning 28 mean for FMC USA 2015  The first scramble was... poor  But the other two were fairly nice/lucky
> 
> Scramble 1: F U B' L' F' U F2 D2 R' U' L2 D' F2 R2 U' R2 U' L2 U R2
> Inverse 1: R2 U' L2 U R2 U R2 F2 D L2 U R D2 F2 U' F L B U' F'
> ...



Did you find anything on scramble 3 with the 2x2x2 R2 B' R D'? You can make a 2x2x3 with B U' L' B' L, R B2 U' R B', or B2 R U' R B' after that, but I couldn't really find a good continuation for any of those.


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## not_kevin (Oct 27, 2015)

Torch said:


> Did you find anything on scramble 3 with the 2x2x2 R2 B' R D'? You can make a 2x2x3 with B U' L' B' L, R B2 U' R B', or B2 R U' R B' after that, but I couldn't really find a good continuation for any of those.



I didn't try R2 B' R D' or any other start (mostly because I knew that if I were going to do that 4C, it was gonna take me a long time) - I'll give it a shot sometime soon, and see if I can come up with anything.


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## Torch (Oct 27, 2015)

not_kevin said:


> I didn't try R2 B' R D' or any other start (mostly because I knew that if I were going to do that 4C, it was gonna take me a long time) - I'll give it a shot sometime soon, and see if I can come up with anything.



Okay, cool; you can see what I did here (moves on inverse in parentheses and cancelling moves bolded). Congratulations on winning!


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## TheDubDubJr (Oct 27, 2015)

Torch said:


> Did you find anything on scramble 3 with the 2x2x2 R2 B' R D'? You can make a 2x2x3 with B U' L' B' L, R B2 U' R B', or B2 R U' R B' after that, but I couldn't really find a good continuation for any of those.



Yea I didn't look at that either.

I found a Pseudo 2x2x2 using D' U R U2 (Also tried D' U R U but wasn't a better continuation.

Then after that there is 3 different 4move continuations for a 9move 2x2x3. F' U F U', R F R' F', or R2 F R2 F'.

I went with F' U F U' and found a couple nice continuations including an easy 17 to L4C and 21 to L3C. Both have 27 optimal.


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## not_kevin (Oct 27, 2015)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Yea I didn't look at that either.
> 
> I found a Pseudo 2x2x2 using D' U R U2 (Also tried D' U R U but wasn't a better continuation.
> 
> ...



That's what I did :3

But I actually didn't find the 21 to L3C, I only found a 21 to 2 twisted :< What was the 21?


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## Torch (Oct 27, 2015)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Yea I didn't look at that either.
> 
> I found a Pseudo 2x2x2 using D' U R U2 (Also tried D' U R U but wasn't a better continuation.
> 
> ...



Looks like that was what notkevin did. Ugh, I need to look at pseudoblocks more often.


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## TheDubDubJr (Oct 27, 2015)

not_kevin said:


> That's what I did :3
> 
> But I actually didn't find the 21 to L3C, I only found a 21 to 2 twisted :< What was the 21?



Scramble 3: U' F2 U' F2 L2 U L U2 B L2 R' B L' F2 U' R U2 R2

(U premove on normal)
D' U R U2 // 2x2x2
F' U F U' // 2x2x3
R D' F' R' [F] // F2L-corner
[F] L2 B' L' B L' F' D' // 21 to L3C

After the 2x2x3, the 17 to L4C was this:

D' R' D R2 F' R F R2


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## Ranzha (Oct 27, 2015)

I came into FMC USA 2015 with two reasonable goals:
1. Sub-32 mean
2. Beat Kit Clement

I ended up not only achieving these goals, but also coming in first place at the Berkeley location. The scrambles weren't great, but I didn't find them as awful as a lot of the better FMC competitors did.

My solutions from FMC USA 2015:

Note: Moves inside () were done on inverse. Moves without commas or colons inside [] are cancelling moves.

1. Scramble: F U B' L' F' U F2 D2 R' U' L2 D' F2 R2 U' R2 U' L2 U R2


Spoiler



(F2) R2 U' L B L' @ // ps222
(R2 B2 U2)
U2
(R B') // 223 + 3 pairs (12)
// panic
B U R U' R2 U' [B U // F2L
U' B'] D B' D' B2 U R' // AB3E (24)

@ D2 F2 U2 R B2 U2 F2 L // insertion at 57:00, cancel 0

*Final: R2 U' L B L' D2 F2 U2 R B2 U2 F2 L U2 B U R U' R2 U' D B' D' B2 U R' B R' U2 B2 R2 F2 (32)*

Optimal insertions were 10-movers that cancel 10 (lol not happening)

I plugged the 12-move 2x2x3 + 3 pairs into CubeExplorer, and that position can be solved in 12 moves for a 24-move solution.
NotKevin seemed to find it, and my skeleton (given the correct insertion) should have yielded that. However, I don't look for 10-move insertions on 3-edge skeletons usually because I don't have the time to look for 6-, 8-, and 10-movers. This was a case where my hands were shaking trying to find a quick 8-move insertion, and I cancelled 0.

It turns out that at the end of the F2L phase, the resulting LL case is a 10-mover that here would cancel 6, yielding the same solutions as the optimal insertion and the 12-move finish as described above.

Oh well. Just gotta know more things I guess.



2. Scramble: D' L2 F2 R2 U L2 D2 R2 B' R U L2 U F' U2 F' U B U'


Spoiler



(R F' U R B) // 222
(R2 B R' B' D2) // 2x-cross
(L' F' L F) // pair and oh boy
(D F' D') // F2L-1
(F R F2 R') // F2L
(D R D' U F U' F' D R D' F') // LL (OLLCP, EPLL skip) (32)

*Final: F D R' D' F U F' U' D R' D' R F2 R' F' D F D' F' L' F L D2 B R B' R2 B' R' U' F R' (32)*

I wasn't entirely sure where to go after the 9-move 2x2x3, but after doing the D2 L' F' L, I saw the pair opportunities, but wasn't sure how to approach the rest. With 15 minutes to go, I decided to FMCFAP and found the nice finish. #thefmcfapperstrikesagain



3. Scramble: U' F2 U' F2 L2 U L U2 B L2 R' B L' F2 U' R U2 R2


Spoiler



R2 B' R D' // 222
R' U' L U' L' U // 2x-cross
B R B' D @ B D' B
R B' R2 B R B' R // AB3C (24)

@ [D R2 D', L'] cancels 1, optimal

*Final: R2 B' R D' R' U' L U' L' U B R B' D2 R2 D' L' D R2 D' L B D' B R B' R2 B R B' R (31)*

In 10 minutes, I found a 27 to 3C backup skeleton with insertions that cancelled 2 moves for a 33. But I was determined for the sub-32 mean, so with that in my back pocket, I found this 31 with about 15 minutes to go. It sucks that the insertion only cancelled 1, but it caused a sub-32 mean nonetheless.


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## not_kevin (Oct 27, 2015)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Scramble 3: U' F2 U' F2 L2 U L U2 B L2 R' B L' F2 U' R U2 R2
> 
> (U premove on normal)
> D' U R U2 // 2x2x2
> ...



Looks like a minor typo in the F2L-corner? (Should be D', not D?)

Yeah, I should've tried to be more flexible from that start, but I saw the 12-move tripod and just went with that  I did find the 17 -> 4C, but I don't do them enough >.< Any tips for getting through 4C cases quickly? It's like, in that awkward spot to me where it's not flexible enough to just find a bomb insertion and go from there (like with 2 twisted), but it's not so limited that I can actually check every corner case (like 5C). But maybe I'm doing insertions inefficiently?



Ranzha said:


> 1. Scramble: F U B' L' F' U F2 D2 R' U' L2 D' F2 R2 U' R2 U' L2 U R2
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



For people curious, here's the 12-mover I found after the 2x2x3+3pairs:


Spoiler



Setup, copied from Ranzha:
(F2) R2 U' L B L' @ // ps222
(R2 B2 U2)
U2
(R B') // 223 + 3 pairs (12)

Continue on normal:
B U R U' // dum de dum
R D' R D // make some thangs
U' B U R' // oops


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## Cale S (Oct 27, 2015)

U' F2 U' F2 L2 U L U2 B L2 R' B L' F2 U' R U2 R2

since we're discussing this scramble, here's a nice start I found:

D' U R U2 F' (F' U') // F2L - 1 minus corner


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## Joey VOV (Oct 31, 2015)

Torch said:


> Did you find anything on scramble 3 with the 2x2x2 R2 B' R D'? You can make a 2x2x3 with B U' L' B' L, R B2 U' R B', or B2 R U' R B' after that, but I couldn't really find a good continuation for any of those.



After that 2x2, I did the R B2 U' R B' continuation, however I did it with an extra move to form a pair, so I did R B2 U' R U B'. After that, the rest of my solve looked like this: 
U' R 
B U' B' 
R2 F R' F' R' U' 
B R2 B' R' B R' B' U2

Final solution being a 29, notbad.


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## Cale S (Oct 31, 2015)

ok I just found this (third scramble of FMC USA)

U' F2 U' F2 L2 U L U2 B L2 R' B L' F2 U' R U2 R2

D' U R U2 F' (F' U') // F2L - 1 minus corner
(B R B') // EO + pair
(D R2 D' R2) // F2L - 1 
R D2 R' // to block comm
(F R F' D2 F R' F' D) // block comm

final solution: D' U R U2 F' R D2 R' D' F R F' D2 F R' F' R2 D R2 D' B R' B' U F (25)


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## cmhardw (Oct 31, 2015)

RhysC said:


> With the same cycle, we can use the interchange B. This would leave us with a trigger of (U F U'). Since we are sending the non-interchange to its correct position, we use the comm ABA'B', being:
> (U F U') B (U F' U') B'
> 
> But that doesn't work.
> ...



First thought is that the alg should be
(U F U') B' (U F' U') B
in order to affect the same three pieces, unless I don't follow the question correctly.


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## Isaac Lai (Nov 1, 2015)

Scramble: R D2 B2 D2 B2 R F2 U2 L U2 R F U' B2 F L D' L2 D' F

D’ L D2 L’ U L2 // 2x2x2
F2 D’ F // 2x2x3
R2 D R D2 R B R B’ // F2L w/o cross edge
R F B’ D2 F’ *B* (cancelled) // insert cross edge
*B’* (cancelled) R’ D R B R’ B’ D’ B R // OLL (PLL skip)

Final solution: D’ L D2 L’ U L2 F2 D’ F R2 D R D2 R B R B’ R F B’ D2 F’ R’ D R B R’ B’ D’ B R (31)

Great solve for the weekly comp, especially since this is my first proper attempt (i.e. sitting down for one hour straight and not submitting the first solution). Does anyone have any tips? The ending is pretty awful but it was the best I could find because I don't know anything about insertions and whatnot. I basically spammed solutions until I got that PLL skip.


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## TheDubDubJr (Nov 1, 2015)

Foinally got a PB after almost 2 years. 

This was the scramble for the Negative Time Solve 2015. http://cubefreak.net/contests/negative/



Spoiler: Negative Time Solve FMC - 19 moves



Scramble - U' L2 D' U R2 B R2 F2 L' U F' D2 R D2 R B F' D2 U' L R2 B2 D U' F L' R F D U2
Inverse - U2 D' F' R' L F' U D' B2 R2 L' U D2 F B' R' D2 R' D2 F U' L F2 R2 B' R2 U' D L2 U

i R2 B' // EO (2/2)
switch
n U2 // 2pairs (1/3)
switch
i U' L' D2 // 2 2x2x1s (3/6)
switch
n D2 [L'] R2 // 2x2x3 (3/9)
[L'] U L R // Pseudo F2L (4-1/12)
F U F' U F U2 F' // Sune Skip (7/19)
R2 // Fix Pseudo (1/20)

Although we were planning on doing this for a 2-hour attempt because of the time change. I got this 20 after about 55min into the attempt.
For some reason about 5min later I looked at the first 4 moves and realized how odd they looked and I randomly did the moves and noticed I could do them in reverse and cancel a move! 

U2 D2 L2 R2 (R2 L2 D2 U2 R2 L2 D2 U2) U L R F U F' U F U2 F' R2 D2 L U B R2 
// 8 move insertion that does nothing and cancels 9

R2 L2 D2 U' L R F U F' U F U2 F' R2 D2 L U B R2 
19 move solution


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## Mark Boyanowski (Nov 2, 2015)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Foinally got a PB after almost 2 years.
> 
> This was the scramble for the Negative Time Solve 2015. http://cubefreak.net/contests/negative/
> 
> ...



You should've tried inserting a 10 mover that cancels 9... (a few people will get this joke).


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## JackJ (Nov 3, 2015)

Third scramble from FMC USA 2015 A few weeks ago.

U' F2 U' F2 L2 U L U2 B L2 R' B L' F2 U' R U2 R2



Spoiler



Pre move: U2 
2x2: U2 R2 U' R' U
F2L - 1 pair: R D' F' R' F B' R' B
F2L 4: R' D2 R2 D R D' R D
LL: F' R' F R F' R' F R D R2

Final Solution: (32 moves)
U2 R2 U' R' U R D' F' R' F B' R' B R' D2 R2 D R D' R D F' R' F R F' R' F R D R2 U2



My final mean was 36.67, which I guess is pretty good for me. I was lucky and found PLL skips on all three of my attempts and this solution was particularly satisfying. I found it in about 10 minutes and am too inexperienced to find anything better with the other ~50 minutes I had to work with. Overall I am very pleased with my performance.


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## ardi4nto (Nov 12, 2015)

Is there any resource where I can learn "domino" solving technique?
I saw this user at weekly FMC who regularly done it: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/98/
And seems like it's an efficient method

What is "domino" anyway? Is it feasible to do it in 1 hour instead of regular blockbuilding, NISS, premoves, and insertion techniques?


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## irontwig (Nov 12, 2015)

A Rubik's domino is a 3x3x2:







Look at his solutions and you'll probably get it, though this Baldav guy is the only one that I know that use it with any kind of regularity.


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## shadowslice e (Nov 12, 2015)

ardi4nto said:


> Is there any resource where I can learn "domino" solving technique?
> I saw this user at weekly FMC who regularly done it: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/98/
> And seems like it's an efficient method
> 
> What is "domino" anyway? Is it feasible to do it in 1 hour instead of regular blockbuilding, NISS, premoves, and insertion techniques?



Well, the first stage of SSC reduces the cube to a domino so it's feasible but I don't know how practical it is for FMC (the first stage is EOedge+3Dcorners, SLS= ~15 moves but you can definately do it more efficiently than that.)


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## 2180161 (Nov 13, 2015)

Isn't that "domino method" very similar to HTA?


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## shadowslice e (Nov 13, 2015)

2180161 said:


> Isn't that "domino method" very similar to HTA?



Basically yeah. Lots of FMC techniques are actually pretty similar because they all deal with EO, CP and CO.


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## irontwig (Nov 13, 2015)

2180161 said:


> Isn't that "domino method" very similar to HTA?



Yes, but less rigid. You can also reduce it by block building (e.g. oriented 2x2x3) and finish EO later. One other option is to ignore some corners' orientations and make a more conventional skeleton, although then you're pretty close the more normal EO-first approach.


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## DavidWoner (Nov 13, 2015)

First solve in over 2 years

Scramble: B D2 F D2 R2 U2 L2 B2 R2 F R2 D L' D' F2 U B R U2 F

Solution: B' R D2 L U L' D' L U' L2 D L D2 R2 B' R B2 U R2 U' B2 F' U F U2 R F' R D2 B2 (30)

Process:

Start with inverse scramble: F' U2 R' B' U' F2 D L D' R2 F' R2 B2 L2 U2 R2 D2 F' D2 B'

2x2x2: B2 D2 R' F (4|4)

2x2x3: R' U2 F' U' F (5|9)

F2L-1: B2 U R2 U' (4|13)

F2L: B2 R' B R2 (4|17)

3 Corners: D2 L' D' L* D' R' B (7|24)

Insert (L U L', D) at the * to solve and cancel 2 moves, resulting in 30 moves total.

Notes: It was kind of an easy scramble with an okay result. I'm certain there are better finishes to my start but I am a lot slower than I used to be. I will try to do at least one a week to shake the dust off.


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## YouCubing (Nov 13, 2015)

Anyone ever tried SQ1 FMC? I say each / move is one move, and U and D face moves don't count towards the result.
God's number for SQ1 is 13 by that rule, so can anyone achieve this?
(my best solve was 27 moves)


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## irontwig (Nov 13, 2015)

U2 R2 U2 B2 U F' U' B2 U L' F2 L' R' D R L B D B' D2 L' D' L D L' D2 U2 (27)

U2 R2 U'
F'.L' F2 L'
R' D R 
L B D B' D2 L' D' L D L' D2
U2

.=F U' B2 U F' U' B2 U

I'm pretty damn rusty too.


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## not_kevin (Nov 13, 2015)

DavidWoner said:


> First solve in over 2 years
> 
> Scramble: B D2 F D2 R2 U2 L2 B2 R2 F R2 D L' D' F2 U B R U2 F
> 
> ...



Yes let's retake NAR again <3


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## Cale S (Nov 13, 2015)

DavidWoner said:


> Scramble: B D2 F D2 R2 U2 L2 B2 R2 F R2 D L' D' F2 U B R U2 F



(U2 L) // square
U2 R2 // another square
U' F' L' F2 // xxcross
D2 R' D' R // F2L - 1
(L' D' F' D2 F L) // to L4C

skeleton: U2 % R2 U' F' L' F2 D2 R' D' R L' F' D2 $ F D U2
insert at %: [U', R' D2 R] 
insert at $: [D2, F' U' F]

final solution: U R' D2 R U R' D2 R' U' F' L' F2 D2 R' D' R L' F2 U' F D2 F' U F2 D U2 (26)


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## EMI (Nov 14, 2015)

Official PB Single from today. Finally sub 25!

Scramble (generated from solution): F' R L' B' R F' R' U D' R2 B' U' B D2 L2 U2 B2 R2 L

2x2x2: L' B F R' F [D'] R
Pseudo-F2L-1: F D' F
Pseudo-F2L: D' L D L D' L' D
LL: D' B' L' B L D L' D

Total: L' B F R' F D' R F D' F D' L D L D' L' B' L' B L D L' D (23)

8th place in Germany now, yay. lol


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## ottozing (Nov 16, 2015)

First FMC in a while, and did probably my coolest insertion to date. Weekly comp in progress (dadams), so yeah, spoilers.



Spoiler: What I did



R2 U L D' U L' F D' R2 F' L' D U F2 B2 D' R F' D R'

Inv
F B U F (1x2x2 + pairs)
Switch
R' F U' (1x2x3)
F' L F R L (1x2x3)
Switch
R D2 R2 L2 (F2L)
U' (3C4E)

Skeleton: ^ R' F U' F' L F R L U L2 R2 D2 R' F' U' B' F' (17)

^ L B2 D L2 U' L' U L' D' L'

Solution: L B2 D L2 U' L' U L' D' L' R' F U' F' L F R L U L2 R2 D2 R' F' U' B' F' (27)


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## ardi4nto (Nov 16, 2015)

ottozing said:


> First FMC in a while, and did probably my coolest insertion to date. Weekly comp in progress (dadams), so yeah, spoilers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I also found 27-move solution, but different skeleton and insertion. Plain one.
But inserting 3C and 4E in 10 moves is just crazy!


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## ottozing (Nov 16, 2015)

ardi4nto said:


> I also found 27-move solution, but different skeleton and insertion. Plain one.
> But inserting 3C and 4E in 10 moves is just crazy!



Nice!

Yeah, when I found I had the 3 twisted corners and 3 edge cycle, I knew there would be a few ways to solve them using sunes and fat sunes. Thankfully I was lucky enough to find a one move setup to fat antisune at the start of the skeleton


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## TorbinRoux (Nov 22, 2015)

Okay, so I'm new to fmc and this was my first ever attempt. I don't know any fmc methods so I just used cfop.
Scramble: D2 L2 U' B2 D' R2 U R2 U L2 U F D' R' B' F2 L D2 R2 D' L
Solution: F R2 U' F B' L U B' L U' B L2 F' L' F L' D' L' D L2 U L' U' L U' F U F2 D F' U2 F D' F' U2 F2 L'
37 moves
How do I start to improve?


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## 2180161 (Nov 22, 2015)

TorbinRoux said:


> Okay, so I'm new to fmc and this was my first ever attempt. I don't know any fmc methods so I just used cfop.
> Scramble: D2 L2 U' B2 D' R2 U R2 U L2 U F D' R' B' F2 L D2 R2 D' L
> Solution: F R2 U' F B' L U B' L U' B L2 F' L' F L' D' L' D L2 U L' U' L U' F U F2 D F' U2 F D' F' U2 F2 L'
> 37 moves
> How do I start to improve?



Try to block-build more. Learn how to NISS


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## gyroninja (Nov 22, 2015)

I've had a pb for a few months it had a short move count. About a month ago I realized the zbll for the case was just a back antisune. I've pieced together the solve and removed moves that would cancel and got a solution of 19HTM. Since I'm new to the forums I figured I should share it here.

*Scramble*: R' U B2 U2 R' U2 B2 R' U2 L' D F2 L2 F2 D L'
*Solution*: U2 D' L' D' L2 U2 L2 R2 U' R U' R' U R U R' U R U'

Scramble had eo completed.

*Original Solve*
U2 D' L' D' L2 U2 L2 R' // XXXEOLine
R' U' R U' R' U' R // Right Block
U R U R' U R U2 R' // COLL - Sune
U M2 U' M U2 M' U' M2 U // EPLL - U

*With Easy LL*
U2 D' L' D' L2 U2 L2 R' // XXXEOLine
R' U' R U' R' U' R // Right Block
R' U2 R U R' U R U' // ZBLL - Sune

Then you just cancel moves out.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 22, 2015)

TorbinRoux said:


> Okay, so I'm new to fmc and this was my first ever attempt. I don't know any fmc methods so I just used cfop.
> Scramble: D2 L2 U' B2 D' R2 U R2 U L2 U F D' R' B' F2 L D2 R2 D' L
> Solution: F R2 U' F B' L U B' L U' B L2 F' L' F L' D' L' D L2 U L' U' L U' F U F2 D F' U2 F D' F' U2 F2 L'
> 37 moves
> How do I start to improve?



37 moves with CFOP is very good! To improve, I definitely recommend reading porkynator's guide. It's very good.


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## Prakhar (Nov 22, 2015)

I was analyzing Keaton's 5.09 scramble for fmc and found this-

Scramble: D2 B2 F R2 U2 B R D' L' U2 L' D' B' L' D2 B2 L
Skeleton: R F L B' D' F'

Explanation: 
Premove: F2
2x2x2 with EO: R F L B' D' F //6 corners with 1 twisted and 3 edges

Couldn't do good insertions. Can anyone do the insertions? Its 4 insertions but IF doesn't do it 

Also found 16 to 5 edges
Skeleton:R F L B' D2 F D' F' D' L' D L' F' B D2 B'


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## tx789 (Nov 23, 2015)

I got 37 moves. Any tips on how to improve? This attempt had a 4 move 2x2x2 block, 11 move 2x2x3 block, and 20 move F2L.
click here

B2 D' R2 F2 D' U2 L2 D2 R2 U' L2 F' D2 F2 R F' R D' F2 U' R L'

L U2 B2 D//2x2 block
U2 B U2 R2 U2 R B U//2x2x3 block
B2 R U R2 U2 B U R //F2L#3 and #4
x' Lw' U' Lw L' U' L U Lw' U2 R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 B2//LL


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## RhysC (Nov 23, 2015)

tx789 said:


> I got 37 moves. Any tips on how to improve? This attempt had a 4 move 2x2x2 block, 11 move 2x2x3 block, and 20 move F2L.
> click here
> 
> B2 D' R2 F2 D' U2 L2 D2 R2 U' L2 F' D2 F2 R F' R D' F2 U' R L'
> ...



Not bad! Just remember there's always NISS to play with and you probably should have used insertions instead of cancelled LL algs.


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## youSurname (Nov 23, 2015)

I am by no means an FMC solver, but I was interested if anyone has tried the following. FMCing a 2x2, i.e. getting optimal solutions. If anyone has done this (especially top FMC solvers) or wants to give it a go, let me know how hard it is finding an optimal solution. I myself have written a 2x2 optimal solver on the computer, and for the longest scrambles it takes a reasonable amount of computer work.


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## G2013 (Nov 23, 2015)

I have done something like that (I'm not a top FMCer and my PB is only 27 moves, but I have done it)

I posted my solutions last year in this thread: 

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?27830-The-2x2x2-quot-Example-Solve-quot-Game!


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## tx789 (Nov 24, 2015)

I got another sub 40 FMC today. I'm practicing for NZ Nationals in just under two weeks. My very, very happy with the finish on this solve. 

alg.cubing.net
Scramble:R2 U2 R2 U2 L2 U B2 U2 F2 U' R2 B' L2 D2 R' B' F R' U' L' B2 U'

L' F //2x2x2 block
R' B R U2//2x2x3 block
R' B D' R D R' B R//F2L#3
B2 U' B2 U x' U' F' U L' U2 L U' F U x// F2L#4
U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R //corner comm
U2 L2 F2 L// undo pre-moves


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## Attila (Nov 29, 2015)

youSurname said:


> I am by no means an FMC solver, but I was interested if anyone has tried the following. FMCing a 2x2, i.e. getting optimal solutions. If anyone has done this (especially top FMC solvers) or wants to give it a go, let me know how hard it is finding an optimal solution. I myself have written a 2x2 optimal solver on the computer, and for the longest scrambles it takes a reasonable amount of computer work.




I think, you should learn VOP method, and then OVP variant 
( OVP stand for Orient, make V, Permute). Average movecount about 12 with linear solve,
but this can be reduced( with CN start, inverse, etc )
You will find some optimal, and many close-optimal OVP solutions on 2x2 example solve thread,
from Cale S, porkynator and me.


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## ardi4nto (Dec 1, 2015)

FMC Asia 2015

First Attempt:
Scramble: D2 L2 R2 F L2 B' F2 D2 L' B' L2 B2 L' F U' F D B' L


Spoiler



Square 1: L' U F' * U' (4)
2x2x2 + 3 c/e pairs: B D2 R' F (8)
pseudo 2x2x3: L2 D' B' D' B2 (13)
F2L-1: D2 L2 D' # B (17)
Finish F2L, leave 3c3e: D F' D2 F (21)

insert at * : F' D' F U F' D F U' (27)
insert at # : D2 L B2 L2 B2 L2 B2 L D2 (35)


Not so happy with first attempt, poor start and poor finish.

Attempt 2:
Scramble: D L2 D R2 U B2 R2 D L2 R' B' U F2 L D2 L2 U B R B'


Spoiler



Solution on inverse:
square 1: B2 D2 L D2 (4)
square 2: U' R2 U (7)
siamese 2x2x2: F' R' L2 B' L' (12)
F2L-1: D' F' D' F (16)
leave 3 edges: R D' * R' D2 (20)

insert at *: B2 D R' L B2 L' R D B2 (29)


Very happy with this attempt! My first sub-30 in official competition.
Sadly the insertion is not optimal, there is 10 moves edge commutator that cancel 4 says IF.
Found this in 30 min and submit this in a hurry because I was really hungry (it's on 1 pm - 2 pm, lunch time).

Third attempt:
Scramble: B2 R' U2 R B2 R U2 R' B2 R' B R' B2 F2 L' F U' L2 R' B2


Spoiler



premove: B F2

two squares: B2 R2 B' L' R' (5)
2x2x2: F R2 F2 (8)
2x2x3: D' B' (10)
F2L-1: F' D F2 * L2 F' (15)
finish F2L, leaving 3c3e: D' L D L' D' (20)
undo premove: B F2 (22)

No much time left in the clock, 10 minutes. I gambled to insert both corner and edges, as if I got 31 I will claim Indonesian NR. But only found 12-moves insertion at *: U D2 (L' B' Rw2 B L B' Rw2 B) D2 U' which results in 34 move. 



Anyone knows the winning solution?
Overall, awesome event! Thank you Rui-Jun Liu and all the delegates who was involved! Can't wait to have an event like this again next year.


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## mande (Dec 2, 2015)

ardi4nto said:


> FMC Asia 2015
> 
> Attempt 2:
> Scramble: D L2 D R2 U B2 R2 D L2 R' B' U F2 L D2 L2 U B R B'
> ...



Here's my solution for the second scramble. Although I got a DNF mean, maybe this could classify as the winning solution?
Scramble: D L2 D R2 U B2 R2 D L2 R' B' U F2 L D2 L2 U B R B'


Spoiler



Solution on inverse:
2x2x2: D2 B' F2 L' R' U2 (6/6)
2x2x3: D B' D2 L' (4/10)
F2L: B D2 B D2 L (B' L') (7/17)
L3C: (L B L) U' L' U B' L' B' (9-5=4/21)

Skeleton for scramble: B L B U' L U L2 D2 B' D2 B' L D2 B D' U2 R L *** F2 B D2
Insert at ***: L' B R B' L B R' B' to cancel 4 moves.

Pretty lucky to cancel so many moves in the OLL. Plenty of blocks after the 2x2x3 though, I'm sure there must have been a few better continuations from there. Switching didn't help much.
Fun fact: I actually missed this insertion in the first scan because I had written F2 B D2 as the last 3 moves and didn't notice that the B' cancels with the comm. Luckily I noticed this in my second scan.


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## huwakun (Dec 2, 2015)

My winning solves of FMC Asia 2015

1st Scramble: D2 L2 R2 F L2 B' F2 D2 L' B' L2 B2 L' F U' F D B' L


Spoiler



normal scramble

premove: L' F D' U L D2
2x2x3+2c/e pair:U B' U' D'

switch to Inverese scramble

premove: D U B U' 
2x2x3: D2 L' U' D F' (D') L (I found single insert D' makes more 2c/e pairs) [7]
F2L-1: B2 D2 B D2 [11]
F2L: B' L B' L' [15]
LL: L' D L D' B' D' B D B2 (pair commutator) [15+9-1=23]
undo premove: D U B U' [27]

My Single PB!



2nd Scramble: D L2 D R2 U B2 R2 D L2 R' B' U F2 L D2 L2 U B R B'


Spoiler



normal scramble

2x2x2: R2 D F L2 U2 R U L [8]
2x2x3: U' R B' R' U B' [14]
more squares: F' U F [17]
F2L: R2 U' R U * R' U' R [24]
ZBLL:L2 D R' F2 R D' L' U2 L' [33]


very bad start and finish.
at "*" point,this remains only 2c2e
Maybe I should have done 2c2e insertion.



3rd Scramble: B2 R' U2 R B2 R U2 R' B2 R' B R' B2 F2 L' F U' L2 R' B2


Spoiler



normal scramble

premove: R F
2x2x2: R2 B2 R2 [3]
2x2x3: F U' F' L B' U [9]
LC3: L' U' L' U L' D' B' D L' B2 [19]
undo premove:R F * [21]

insert at *: F U F' D2 F U' F' D2 [21+8-1=28]

lucky skelton.
unfortunately there is only 1move cancel




27 33 28 = 29.33

I'm really happy to achieve mean sub30!
Big thanks for this nice competition


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## mande (Dec 2, 2015)

huwakun said:


> My winning solves of FMC Asia 2015
> 
> 1st Scramble: D2 L2 R2 F L2 B' F2 D2 L' B' L2 B2 L' F U' F D B' L
> 
> ...



Congrats for winning 
2c2e insertions would definitely have been better in your second attempt. For instance, a J perm (L U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' R) at the * already gives you a 32


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## Hssandwich (Dec 2, 2015)

huwakun said:


> My winning solves of FMC Asia 2015
> 2nd Scramble: D L2 D R2 U B2 R2 D L2 R' B' U F2 L D2 L2 U B R B'
> normal scramble
> 
> ...


2x2x2: R2 D F L2 U2 R U L [8]
2x2x3: U' R B' R' U B' [14]
more squares: F' U F
F2L: R2 U' R U R' (J-perm R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L) R

Cancels to: R2 U' R U' R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L R

Resulting in: R2 D F L2 U2 R U L U' R B' R' U B' F' U F R2 U' R U' R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L R (31)


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## ardi4nto (Dec 3, 2015)

mande said:


> Here's my solution for the second scramble. Although I got a DNF mean, maybe this could classify as the winning solution?
> Scramble: D L2 D R2 U B2 R2 D L2 R' B' U F2 L D2 L2 U B R B'
> 
> 
> ...



Congrats Nikhil! Best solve of the competition!



huwakun said:


> My winning solves of FMC Asia 2015
> 
> 1st Scramble: D2 L2 R2 F L2 B' F2 D2 L' B' L2 B2 L' F U' F D B' L
> 
> ...



Congratulations for winning Hiraide-san!
But, yeah, the second solve can be improved with setting up J-perm in the end.


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## porkynator (Dec 8, 2015)

My official 22 move solution from Italian Open 2015:
Scramble: R2 B' L2 B' R2 B' R2 F' U2 L' D' F L2 F2 L2 F' R2 F2 L' F'
Solution: R L2 B' R B R L' D' R' F2 L F2 U2 F R F' R' B R L2 F' R2 (22 HTM)


Spoiler



In the first 30 minutes I've found a 23 HTM solution. With my NISS notation (moves in brackets on inverse scramble):
R2 L D' //EO (3/3)
F2 L F2 * //Square + pair (3/6)
(R2 F L2) //2x2x2 (3/9)
(R' B' U2) //Blocks everywhere! (3/12)
(B' R' B R) //All but 3 edges (4/16)
* = F' R2 D2 L2 B' U2 L2 D2 //Optimal insertion (7/23)

After that I tried and improve it, and in the last 10 minutes I've found this:
R2 L * D'
F2 L F2
(R2 F L2) //Same as before (9/9)
(R' B' U') //Pseudo F2L (3/12)
U //F2L (1/13)
Now, doing U' R' B' R B U would result, with many cancellations, in what I did before. Instead I tried:
U F R F' R' U' //All but 3 edges, 3 moves cancel (3/16)
* = R' L B' R B R L' D' R' D
Although optimal insertion leads to a 20 HTM solution.


The mean was 31 30 22 = 27.67


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## Mollerz (Dec 8, 2015)

porkynator said:


> My official 22 move solution from Italian Open 2015:
> Scramble: R2 B' L2 B' R2 B' R2 F' U2 L' D' F L2 F2 L2 F' R2 F2 L' F'
> Solution: R L2 B' R B R L' D' R' F2 L F2 U2 F R F' R' B R L2 F' R2 (22 HTM)
> 
> ...



That is a really fantastic solution, it's a shame you didn't get a 20 in the end. So much magic happens after that first block! I really need to practicing doing EO before anything else, right now it generally takes me a long time, or I don't do it entirely correctly.

Anyway I got a 23 today on the reddit weekly scramble (161). My best result ever, I don't want to spoil the scramble but you guys should try it out.



Spoiler



Scramble: B U B L U L U' B L2 D R2 B2 D B2 R2 B2 L2 D

F D' F D' // 2x2x2
B' U B' U' B2 // 2x2x3
R' U // Pseudo F2L-1
B' * R' B R' B U' B' // L3C

* B R F R' B' R F' R' // Insertion

Soltuion: F D' F D' B' U B' U' B2 R' U R F R' B' R F' R2 B R' B U' B' (23)

Not much to explain really, I wanted to create a 2x2 that preserved lots of pairs. This particular one broke one of the four pairs on the starting scramble, but formed another one on being made. 2x2x3 was a fairly simple expansion that preserved pairs. F2L-1 was the same. From P-F2L-1 to L3C, I actually used a premove to find this solution. However the premove cancelled so there's no real need to include it. Insertion was optimal, I found a handful of 2 move cancellations and this was the only 3 move cancellation I found.


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## EMI (Dec 9, 2015)

Sebastien said:


> Marcel and Emanuel asked me about the current state of rolling FMC average UWRs this weekend and as I had no idea, I decided to update this. Since last time, the amount of valid results has massively improved! Right now, there are 1043 rollwing Mean of 3 (compared to only 613 real means in the database), 811 rolling Average of 5 and 154 rolling Average of 12. So I decided to just post the current Top 100.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would you mind updating it once more? I think I have 26.50 now, too, and I'm wondering if this is still "OUWR".

Edit: Oops, I only have 26.60. Still?


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## Bubtore (Dec 9, 2015)

Yes that would be great.
I wasn't in the list until here (because of 1 solve probably), but now I should have 30.4.

edit : and what is actually the best "worst FM result" (including DNFs) ?


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## sqAree (Dec 10, 2015)

Hi, I have no clue about fmc in general but I wanted to try it once for fun, so yesterday I gave myself 20min on this Pyraminx scramble: U' R' U B' L' U L' R' U' L U B' L' U L R' B.

Seeing the block on the bottom left I decided to go for keyhole and found this 4-move top + centers: [R] B U' L U', which leaves only a U-perm ([R] L R' L' R' U' R' U to finish).
However, permuting the blue edges at the very start works as well, giving me something like  L R' L' R' U' R' U [R'] L U' R U', which cancels one turn in theory, and the final solution without rotations is: R B' R' B' U' B' U' L' B L' (10 turns).

So, any tips on what I could have improved on this given scramble?


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## Sebastien (Dec 10, 2015)

EMI said:


> Would you mind updating it once more? I think I have 26.50 now, too, and I'm wondering if this is still "OUWR".
> 
> Edit: Oops, I only have 26.60. Still?



I am sorry, but it seems like I got a really good average of 12 currently which might turn into a sub26 average if I manage to roll that 30 with a sub29 next competition. 

Here you go:



Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Mean of 3 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Mean of 3Individual Results1.2006SHEU01Vincent Sheu2427, 22, 231.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux2427, 22, 233.2013COST02João Pedro Batista Ribeiro Costa24,3323, 26, 244.2011FRES01Linus Fresz24,6726, 22, 265.2008YOUN02Michael Young2526, 24, 255.2010BENT01Jan Bentlage2528, 22, 255.2012PETE03Marcel Peters2527, 22, 268.2009OKAY01Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭)25,3320, 29, 278.2011RHEI01Emanuel Rheinert25,3326, 27, 2310.2009SHEP01Daniel Sheppard2625, 27, 2611.2011SBAH01Rami Sbahi26,3330, 29, 2012.2007SANC01Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez2726, 28, 2712.2007XUST01Steven Xu2726, 26, 2912.2008BARA01Bence Barát2725, 28, 2812.2013KOKS01Serhii Koksharov (Сергій Кокшаров)2727, 29, 2516.2009ZEMD01Feliks Zemdegs27,3327, 25, 3017.2005AKKE01Erik Akkersdijk27,6733, 24, 2617.2005LUCZ01Grzegorz Łuczyna27,6728, 26, 2917.2007VALK01Mats Valk27,6728, 27, 2817.2011TRON02Sebastiano Tronto27,6731, 30, 2217.2011WELC01Walker Welch27,6726, 29, 2817.2014NOVO01Tomáš Novotný27,6732, 25, 2617.2014ZHAN11Yunke Zhang (张云柯)27,6731, 23, 2924.2005REYN01Tim Reynolds2828, 26, 3024.2007PERG01Olivér Perge2828, 29, 2724.2007TIIN01Teemu Tiinanen2828, 29, 2724.2008CLEM01Kit Clement2827, 29, 2824.2012ARTH01Noah Arthurs2826, 29, 2929.1982RAZO01Guus Razoux Schultz28,3329, 27, 2929.2007SUNT01Timothy Sun28,3328, 30, 2729.2008DONG06Baiqiang Dong (董百强)28,3326, 27, 3229.2008KARL02Moritz Karl28,3333, 21, 3129.2008WEST02Simon Westlund28,3328, 29, 2829.2010DAVI06Julian David28,3329, 27, 2929.2012KROK01Anton Krokhmal (Антон Крохмаль)28,3322, 34, 2929.2013HUAN16Bo Huang (黄镈)28,3329, 26, 3037.2008UENO01Shuto Ueno (上野柊斗)28,6730, 29, 2737.2009YAUR01Robert Yau28,6726, 30, 3037.2010BREC01John Brechon28,6728, 30, 2837.2010JERN01Erik Jernqvist28,6729, 29, 2837.2011STUA01Rob Stuart28,6729, 28, 2937.2012DELI01Ryan DeLine28,6726, 33, 2737.2014CSUT01Bence János Csuti28,6724, 32, 3037.2014GUPT09Prakhar Gupta28,6730, 25, 3145.2005FLEI01Jeremy Fleischman2928, 28, 3145.2007HUGH01Mike Hughey2931, 30, 2645.2008NIIN01Hideki Niina (新名秀樹)2933, 28, 2645.2009LIUE01Evan Liu2931, 28, 2845.2011DOBR01Dmitry Dobrjakov2930, 28, 2945.2011IMAI01Minato Imai (今井港)2928, 32, 2751.2003GOLJ01Mirek Goljan29,3329, 28, 3151.2005BATI01Milán Baticz29,3330, 29, 2951.2007NAKA03Yu Nakajima (中島悠)29,3324, 36, 2851.2008OLLE01Alexander Olleta del Molino29,3334, 28, 2651.2010OREL02Gonzalo Orellana Barrasa29,3325, 35, 2851.2012BUBE01Reto Bubendorf29,3331, 29, 2851.2012HIRA01Tomoyuki Hiraide (平出智之)29,3327, 33, 2851.2012JALO01Grzegorz Jałocha29,3328, 30, 3051.2012KUCH01Piotr Kuchta29,3328, 33, 2751.2014BOYA01Mark Boyanowski29,3330, 30, 2851.2014ZHAN43Xuyang Zhang (张煦阳)29,3327, 31, 3062.2005FERN01Ravi Fernando29,6730, 26, 3362.2008CHEN27Shuang Chen (陈霜)29,6731, 30, 2862.2009PLES01Michał Pleskowicz29,6732, 32, 2562.2010ADHI01Stephen Adhisaputra29,6727, 34, 2862.2010DUJI01Jiejie Du (杜杰杰)29,6729, 30, 3062.2010THOM03Blake Thompson29,6731, 32, 2662.2012MENE01Diego Bojunga Meneghetti29,6724, 29, 3662.2014SCHO02Cale Schoon29,6732, 29, 2862.2015GROH02Matěj Grohmann29,6731, 28, 3071.2004GALL02Clément Gallet3026, 31, 3371.2007LAIR01Johannes Laire3030, 29, 3171.2007WONG02Tim Wong3026, 41, 2371.2008HANK01Kanneti Sae Han (คันธ์เนตี แซ่ห่าน)3029, 29, 3271.2011FATE01Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Fatemi (سید محمد حسین فاطمی)3029, 27, 3471.2012MCNE01Jayden McNeill3032, 30, 2871.2012POHL01Andreas Pohl3033, 28, 2971.2014MIAO02Qijun Miao (缪其隽)3029, 28, 3379.2006CORR01Devin Corr-Robinett30,3332, 33, 2679.2006GOTT01Michael Gottlieb30,3332, 29, 3079.2008LAUR01Mario Laurent30,3334, 30, 2779.2008MAND01Nikhil Mande30,3334, 29, 2879.2009PETI01Loïc Petit30,3328, 32, 3179.2010TANA02Yuki Tanaka (田中悠樹)30,3325, 33, 3379.2011GRIT01Oleg Gritsenko30,3329, 34, 2879.2011LAYE01Saeed Mostafavi Layegh (سعید مصطفوی لایق)30,3329, 30, 3279.2011STAC01Marcin Stachura30,3332, 31, 2879.2011SZAT01Wojciech Szatanowski30,3330, 32, 2979.2013LIPE01Peiyan Li (利沛焰)30,3328, 32, 3179.2013VEDE01Andrii Vedenov (Андрій Веденьов)30,3332, 30, 2979.2014GOSL01Raymond Goslow30,3331, 33, 2792.2003ZBOR02Zbigniew Zborowski30,6728, 33, 3192.2006OOKU01Takayuki Ookusa (大艸尊之)30,6731, 30, 3192.2010RONK01Niko Ronkainen30,6730, 30, 3292.2012WESC01Lucas Wesche30,6729, 33, 3092.2012YANA01Taku Yanai (矢内拓)30,6728, 30, 3492.2013ROGA02Przemysław Rogalski30,6735, 30, 2798.2007ADSU01Justin Adsuara3132, 26, 3598.2007MOSE02Jack Moseley3128, 35, 3098.2007POLI01Lorenzo Vigani Poli3131, 29, 3398.2008LEEF01Felix Lee3129, 33, 3198.2008TAKA01Yuhei Takagi (高木佑平)3130, 31, 3298.2009PARE02Luis Javier Iáñez Pareja3131, 31, 3198.2009XUAN03Yan Xuan (宣炎)3130, 29, 3498.2010KARY02Dmitry Karyakin3130, 36, 2798.2013DISA01Edoardo Disarò3126, 34, 3398.2013KODA01Satoshi Kodama (児玉聡)3131, 30, 32






Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Average of 5 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Average of 5Individual Results1.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux24,6727, 24, 26, 23, 241.2012PETE03Marcel Peters24,6722, 26, 33, 24, 243.2013COST02João Pedro Batista Ribeiro Costa2523, 26, 24, 28, 254.2009SHEP01Daniel Sheppard25,3324, 26, 29, 24, 265.2008YOUN02Michael Young25,6726, 33, 26, 24, 256.2011RHEI01Emanuel Rheinert2627, 23, 27, 29, 247.2009OKAY01Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭)26,3324, 21, 33, 25, 307.2010BENT01Jan Bentlage26,3325, 27, 31, 27, 229.2006SHEU01Vincent Sheu26,6740, 27, 22, 23, 3010.2007SANC01Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez27DNF, 26, 28, 27, 2610.2008BARA01Bence Barát2732, 25, 28, 28, 2510.2011FRES01Linus Fresz2729, 35, 26, 22, 2613.2014NOVO01Tomáš Novotný27,6723, DNF, 32, 25, 2614.2007PERG01Olivér Perge2829, 27, 32, 28, 2614.2007TIIN01Teemu Tiinanen2828, 29, 27, DNF, 2516.2005REYN01Tim Reynolds28,3326, 30, 35, 29, 2616.2007VALK01Mats Valk28,3329, 35, 28, 27, 2816.2009ZEMD01Feliks Zemdegs28,3338, 27, 25, 30, 2816.2011WELC01Walker Welch28,3330, 26, 29, 32, 2616.2013KOKS01Serhii Koksharov (Сергій Кокшаров)28,3327, 29, 25, 39, 2921.2005LUCZ01Grzegorz Łuczyna28,6727, 31, 31, 28, 2621.2007SUNT01Timothy Sun28,6731, 28, 28, 30, 2721.2008CLEM01Kit Clement28,6729, 29, 27, 29, 2821.2008UENO01Shuto Ueno (上野柊斗)28,6730, 26, 30, DNF, 2621.2010JERN01Erik Jernqvist28,6728, 32, 29, 29, 2821.2012DELI01Ryan DeLine28,6726, 33, 27, 29, 3027.2007XUST01Steven Xu29DNF, 32, 26, 26, 2927.2008DONG06Baiqiang Dong (董百强)2926, 27, 32, 34, 2827.2010DAVI06Julian David2933, 29, 27, 29, 2927.2011SBAH01Rami Sbahi2929, 20, 32, 34, 2627.2011TRON02Sebastiano Tronto2928, 37, 27, 26, 3227.2012ARTH01Noah Arthurs2926, 29, 29, 33, 2927.2013HUAN16Bo Huang (黄镈)2928, 32, 29, 26, 3027.2015GROH02Matěj Grohmann2928, 26, 37, 31, 2835.2005BATI01Milán Baticz29,3330, 29, 29, DNF, 2835.2010BREC01John Brechon29,3328, 31, DNF, 28, 2935.2012BUBE01Reto Bubendorf29,3330, 28, 35, 29, 2935.2012JALO01Grzegorz Jałocha29,3334, 28, 30, 30, 2835.2012POHL01Andreas Pohl29,3329, 30, 33, 28, 2940.1982RAZO01Guus Razoux Schultz29,67DNF, 29, 27, 29, 3140.2008MAND01Nikhil Mande29,6732, 26, DNF, 25, 3140.2008WEST02Simon Westlund29,6728, 29, 28, 34, 3240.2011IMAI01Minato Imai (今井港)29,6738, 28, 32, 27, 2940.2012HIRA01Tomoyuki Hiraide (平出智之)29,6729, 28, DNF, 28, 3240.2014SCHO02Cale Schoon29,6725, 43, 32, 29, 2840.2014ZHAN11Yunke Zhang (张云柯)29,6729, 38, 31, 23, 2940.2014ZHAN43Xuyang Zhang (张煦阳)29,67DNF, 27, 31, 30, 2848.2004GALL02Clément Gallet3027, 32, DNF, 26, 3148.2009LIUE01Evan Liu3031, 36, 31, 28, 2848.2009YAUR01Robert Yau3026, DNF, 31, 28, 3148.2010THOM03Blake Thompson3027, 41, 31, 32, 2648.2012KROK01Anton Krokhmal (Антон Крохмаль)3031, 28, 30, 30, 3048.2014BOYA01Mark Boyanowski3030, 32, 30, 30, 2848.2014GUPT09Prakhar Gupta3029, 40, 30, 25, 3155.2005AKKE01Erik Akkersdijk30,3324, 26, DNF, 35, 3055.2005FLEI01Jeremy Fleischman30,3340, 28, 28, 31, 3255.2008CHEN27Shuang Chen (陈霜)30,3330, 33, 31, 30, 2855.2008LAUR01Mario Laurent30,3330, 29, 34, 31, 3055.2011STAC01Marcin Stachura30,3333, 28, 37, 29, 2955.2012LEHT01Janne Lehtimäki30,3329, 27, DNF, 29, 3355.2012MCNE01Jayden McNeill30,3330, 28, 39, 31, 3055.2013LIPE01Peiyan Li (利沛焰)30,3333, 28, 32, 31, 2863.2006CORR01Devin Corr-Robinett30,6726, 33, 32, DNF, 2763.2008KARL02Moritz Karl30,6721, 31, 33, 31, 3063.2008OLLE01Alexander Olleta del Molino30,67DNF, 30, 34, 28, 2663.2009PETI01Loïc Petit30,6729, 35, 28, 32, 3163.2011GRIT01Oleg Gritsenko30,67DNF, 29, 29, 34, 2863.2011SZAT01Wojciech Szatanowski30,6735, 30, 32, 29, 3063.2012KUCH01Piotr Kuchta30,6736, 31, 28, 33, 2763.2013BOTZ01Alexander Botz30,6733, 27, DNF, 32, 2671.2006GOTT01Michael Gottlieb3133, 31, 32, 29, 3071.2006OOKU01Takayuki Ookusa (大艸尊之)3131, 30, 31, 35, 3171.2007NAKA03Yu Nakajima (中島悠)3124, 36, 28, 32, 3371.2008HANK01Kanneti Sae Han (คันธ์เนตี แซ่ห่าน)3134, 29, 29, 32, 3271.2008NIIN01Hideki Niina (新名秀樹)3132, DNF, 33, 28, 2671.2010DUJI01Jiejie Du (杜杰杰)3134, 33, 29, 30, 3071.2014CSUT01Bence János Csuti3136, 31, 24, 32, 3071.2014MIAO02Qijun Miao (缪其隽)3128, 33, 31, 40, 2979.2006GARR01Lucas Garron31,3330, 35, 30, 34, 3079.2009PARE02Luis Javier Iáñez Pareja31,33DNF, 32, 31, 31, 3179.2011STUA01Rob Stuart31,3329, 28, 29, DNF, 3679.2013YUSH01Pavel Yushkevich31,3330, 32, DNF, 30, 3283.2003HARD01Chris Hardwick31,6732, 32, 37, 31, 3083.2007HUGH01Mike Hughey31,6734, 37, 31, 30, 2683.2009HARN01Brandon Harnish31,6731, 32, 32, 32, 3183.2009PLES01Michał Pleskowicz31,6731, 32, 33, 28, 3283.2010RONK01Niko Ronkainen31,6734, 33, 28, DNF, 2683.2011DOBR01Dmitry Dobrjakov31,6736, 40, 30, 28, 2983.2011FATE01Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Fatemi (سید محمد حسین فاطمی)31,6735, 29, 27, 34, 3283.2012ELLI01Keaton Ellis31,6730, 35, 29, 32, 3383.2013SKEL01Mark Skelton31,6729, 33, 32, 31, 3283.2013VEDE01Andrii Vedenov (Андрій Веденьов)31,6733, 33, 32, 30, 2993.2007MOSE02Jack Moseley3231, 28, 35, 30, DNF93.2007WONG02Tim Wong3230, 40, 26, 41, 2393.2008POTR01Guillain Potron3227, 37, 34, 34, 2893.2008TAKA01Yuhei Takagi (高木佑平)3240, 33, 30, 31, 3293.2009LOOS01Dennis Loose32DNF, 31, 34, 29, 3193.2009XUAN03Yan Xuan (宣炎)3232, 37, 30, 29, 3493.2010KARY02Dmitry Karyakin3230, 36, 27, 43, 3093.2011LAYE01Saeed Mostafavi Layegh (سعید مصطفوی لایق)32DNF, 34, 29, 30, 3293.2012MENE01Diego Bojunga Meneghetti3229, 30, 36, 31, 3593.2012YANA01Taku Yanai (矢内拓)3232, DNF, 28, 30, 3493.2014CHEN02Zijian Chen (陈梓键)3226, 35, DNF, 29, 3293.2014GOSL01Raymond Goslow32DNF, 31, 33, 27, 32






Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Average of 12 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Average of 12Individual Results1.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux2630, 26, 27, 22, 23, 28, 26, 26, 27, 29, 24, 242.2011RHEI01Emanuel Rheinert26,626, 25, 29, 27, 26, 29, 26, 27, 23, 27, 29, 242.2012PETE03Marcel Peters26,626, 23, 27, 28, 27, 29, 24, 29, DNF, 27, 22, 264.2013COST02João Pedro Batista Ribeiro Costa27,125, 32, DNF, 23, 26, 24, 28, 25, 26, 26, 29, 305.2010BENT01Jan Bentlage27,222, 25, 31, 28, 39, 30, 25, 27, 31, 27, 22, 266.2009SHEP01Daniel Sheppard27,431, 29, DNF, 26, 25, 29, 29, 24, 26, 29, 24, 267.2011FRES01Linus Fresz27,531, 29, 27, 23, 28, 28, 28, 29, 35, 26, 22, 268.2009OKAY01Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭)27,724, 21, 33, 25, 30, 30, 28, 31, 26, 26, 30, 279.2008YOUN02Michael Young28,336, 26, 33, 26, 24, 25, 33, 27, 28, 33, 23, 2810.2011WELC01Walker Welch28,826, 29, 28, DNF, 30, 26, 29, 32, 26, 34, 27, 2711.2008CLEM01Kit Clement28,930, 28, 32, 26, 30, 29, 30, 29, 29, 27, 29, 2812.2005LUCZ01Grzegorz Łuczyna29,629, 31, 32, 35, 25, 31, 30, 27, 31, 31, 28, 2613.2008BARA01Bence Barát29,732, 32, 25, 28, 28, 25, 32, 30, 33, 33, 30, 2714.2005REYN01Tim Reynolds29,826, 30, 35, 29, 26, 31, 30, 31, 29, 31, 35, 2614.2011TRON02Sebastiano Tronto29,837, 27, 26, 32, 34, 34, 27, 27, 30, 31, 30, 2216.2009ZEMD01Feliks Zemdegs3031, 30, 29, 36, 38, 27, 25, 30, 28, 30, 28, 3117.2008DONG06Baiqiang Dong (董百强)30,129, 29, 30, 33, 33, 26, 27, 32, 34, 28, 31, 2918.2007PERG01Olivér Perge30,335, 28, 31, 34, DNF, 28, 29, 27, 32, 28, 26, 3118.2007VALK01Mats Valk30,332, 29, 28, 33, 34, 33, 29, 29, 35, 28, 27, 2818.2011SBAH01Rami Sbahi30,332, 33, 27, 33, 30, 31, 30, 29, 20, 32, 34, 2621.2012BUBE01Reto Bubendorf30,428, 32, 31, 35, 30, 28, 35, 29, 29, 31, 31, 2822.2008UENO01Shuto Ueno (上野柊斗)30,630, 32, 32, 36, 32, 33, 28, 29, 31, 30, 29, 2723.2007SUNT01Timothy Sun30,835, 32, 37, 32, 31, 28, 28, 30, 27, 33, 30, 2924.2013HUAN16Bo Huang (黄镈)30,933, 37, 33, 28, 32, 29, 26, 30, 31, DNF, 27, 2925.2008CHEN27Shuang Chen (陈霜)31,134, 30, 33, 31, 30, 28, 32, 32, 32, 28, 30, 3326.2012MCNE01Jayden McNeill31,231, 35, 31, 32, 30, 28, 39, 31, 30, 30, 31, 3127.2010DAVI06Julian David31,532, 33, DNF, 27, 34, 36, 33, 29, 27, 29, 29, 3328.2008KARL02Moritz Karl31,736, 33, 33, 21, 31, 33, 31, 30, 32, 35, 28, 3128.2012ARTH01Noah Arthurs31,734, 34, 28, 34, 35, 32, 37, 26, 29, 29, 33, 2930.2008MAND01Nikhil Mande31,832, 39, 30, 26, 39, 27, 37, 32, 30, 34, 29, 2830.2012KROK01Anton Krokhmal (Антон Крохмаль)31,832, 35, 23, 36, 38, 33, 33, 31, 28, 30, 30, 3030.2014BOYA01Mark Boyanowski31,830, 32, 30, 30, 28, 32, 34, 40, 29, DNF, 30, 3130.2014GUPT09Prakhar Gupta31,8DNF, 37, 29, 40, 30, 25, 31, 31, 32, 31, 30, 2734.2008WEST02Simon Westlund31,934, 31, 27, 34, 36, 32, 37, 33, 34, 28, 29, 2835.2009PLES01Michał Pleskowicz3235, 42, 31, 32, 33, 28, 32, 32, 33, 32, 32, 2535.2013LIPE01Peiyan Li (利沛焰)3230, 31, DNF, 35, 33, 32, 33, 28, 32, 31, 28, 3537.2009LIUE01Evan Liu32,233, 33, 31, 37, 34, 27, 38, 31, 36, 31, 28, 2838.2012KUCH01Piotr Kuchta32,433, 31, 37, 34, 36, 31, 28, 33, 27, 35, 35, 2839.2008LAUR01Mario Laurent32,537, 32, 28, 36, 31, 31, 32, 34, 37, 33, 30, 2940.2010BREC01John Brechon32,639, 39, 35, 34, 28, 30, 28, 31, DNF, 28, 29, 3340.2011STAC01Marcin Stachura32,625, 38, 32, 35, 33, 34, 36, 33, 28, 37, 29, 2940.2014CSUT01Bence János Csuti32,636, 31, 24, 32, 30, 42, 37, 36, 32, 27, 30, 3543.2014SCHO02Cale Schoon32,725, 43, 32, 29, 28, 40, 29, 42, 30, 34, 31, 3244.2012MENE01Diego Bojunga Meneghetti32,829, 30, 36, 31, 35, 30, 38, 32, 36, 32, 37, 2845.2004GALL02Clément Gallet32,933, 33, 35, 35, 29, 35, 39, 29, 35, 34, 31, 2846.2006GARR01Lucas Garron33,132, 33, 35, DNF, 28, 37, 35, 30, 35, 30, 34, 3046.2009PARE02Luis Javier Iáñez Pareja33,132, 31, 31, 31, 32, 33, 37, 34, DNF, 36, 34, 2646.2013VEDE01Andrii Vedenov (Андрій Веденьов)33,132, 37, DNF, 32, 26, 40, 33, 33, 32, 30, 29, 3349.2007WONG02Tim Wong33,233, 30, 40, 26, 41, 23, 42, 33, 19, 42, 34, 3049.2013KOKS01Serhii Koksharov (Сергій Кокшаров)33,235, 31, 37, 37, 40, 34, 27, 29, 25, 39, 29, 3451.2011DOBR01Dmitry Dobrjakov33,336, 40, 30, 28, 29, 40, 36, 36, 32, 33, 33, 2852.2005AKKE01Erik Akkersdijk33,433, 31, 31, 40, 30, 33, 32, 33, 37, 35, 26, 3953.2014MIAO02Qijun Miao (缪其隽)33,535, 41, 31, 37, 38, 28, 33, 31, 40, 29, 28, 3354.2007HUGH01Mike Hughey33,635, 35, 32, 39, 35, 34, 33, 34, 37, 31, 30, 2654.2008SMIT04Maarten Smit33,630, 36, 42, 32, 37, 34, 33, 32, 34, 35, 33, 2656.2008JONG03Jong-Ho Jeong (정종호)3436, 31, 37, 32, DNF, 34, 29, 39, 31, 34, 37, 2956.2009LOOS01Dennis Loose3436, 37, 34, 34, 35, DNF, 31, 34, 29, 31, 34, 3456.2011DWYE02Nathan Dwyer3433, 36, 44, 35, 32, 28, 34, 39, 35, 31, 34, 3159.2007NAKA03Yu Nakajima (中島悠)34,133, DNF, 24, 36, 28, 32, 33, 32, 34, 43, 32, 3859.2014CHEN02Zijian Chen (陈梓键)34,130, 39, 31, 39, 26, 35, DNF, 29, 32, 42, 33, 3161.2006SHEU01Vincent Sheu34,245, 40, 31, 42, 33, DNF, 40, 27, 22, 23, 30, 3161.2010ADHI01Stephen Adhisaputra34,241, 36, 35, 27, 34, 28, DNF, 36, 34, 33, 38, 2761.2010THOM03Blake Thompson34,243, 27, 41, 31, 32, 26, 37, 30, 33, 45, 36, 3261.2013YUSH01Pavel Yushkevich34,232, 35, 29, 42, 32, 40, 37, 30, 32, DNF, 30, 3265.2009DIEC01Cornelius Dieckmann34,432, DNF, 35, 34, 36, 35, 34, 35, 33, 29, 35, 3565.2010DUJI01Jiejie Du (杜杰杰)34,435, 41, DNF, 36, 36, 37, 32, 34, 33, 29, 30, 3067.2011SZAT01Wojciech Szatanowski34,635, 30, 32, 29, 30, 35, 34, DNF, 46, 36, 34, 3468.2014ZHAN11Yunke Zhang (张云柯)34,748, 40, 42, 27, 30, DNF, 29, 38, 31, 23, 29, 3369.2005HSUA01Anthony Hsu34,832, 29, 36, 34, 41, 28, 29, 40, 40, 40, 35, 3370.2005KOZK01Piotr Kózka35,235, 46, 39, 35, 33, 34, 35, 35, 36, 33, 33, 3770.2011NARA02Bhargav Narasimhan35,239, 36, 34, 42, 31, 35, 34, 34, 33, 38, 33, 3670.2014GOSL01Raymond Goslow35,239, 27, 44, 42, 34, 35, DNF, 31, 33, 27, 32, 3573.2012ZABR01Ivan Zabrodin35,336, 33, 28, 42, 43, 40, 29, 38, 37, 32, 33, 3374.2010AGUI04Pablo Aguilar Dominguez35,433, 38, 36, 39, 35, 39, 30, 32, 33, 35, 38, 3574.2013GALA04Pavel Galaktionov35,440, 29, 37, 42, 35, 36, 37, 36, 32, 39, 27, 3376.2013KAMI03Vladislav Kaminskiy35,5DNF, 34, 32, 39, 35, 39, 35, 35, 35, 32, 34, 3777.2008HASH02Wataru Hashimura (端村航)35,634, 41, 30, 40, 27, 40, 43, 34, 28, 39, 35, 3578.2005FLEI01Jeremy Fleischman35,736, 38, 30, DNF, 40, 28, 28, 31, 32, 40, 50, 3278.2010GARC02Carlos Méndez García-Barroso35,733, 35, 35, 43, 35, 45, 38, 34, 30, 37, 33, 3480.2009OHRN01Laura Ohrndorf35,838, 35, 43, 39, 27, 34, 37, 33, 36, DNF, 36, 2281.2007HESS01Rowe Hessler35,931, 37, 40, 33, 36, 33, 43, 32, DNF, 36, 36, 3382.2010OMUL02Matic Omulec3634, 34, 41, 35, 37, 39, DNF, 31, 37, 35, 36, 3282.2012ELLI01Keaton Ellis3639, 44, 36, 36, 30, 35, 29, 32, 33, DNF, 39, 3684.2008COUR01François Courtès36,235, 33, 40, 33, 38, 37, 37, DNF, 33, 37, 36, 3684.2012MORM01Serhii Mormul (Сергій Мормуль)36,234, DNF, 34, 42, 36, 39, 34, 38, 34, 33, 38, 2686.2006GALE01Arnaud van Galen36,435, 36, 28, 35, 43, 45, 31, 29, 34, 40, DNF, 3687.2011MELI01Artem Melikian (Артем Мелікян)36,541, 31, 39, 40, 38, 33, 36, 40, 40, 31, 28, 3788.2007YUNQ01Yunqi Ouyang (欧阳韵奇)36,629, 40, 35, 46, 40, 35, 36, 36, 39, 37, 36, 3289.2011TORG01Ivan Torgashov36,736, 34, 39, 34, 42, 31, 32, 43, 45, 33, 41, 3389.2013MUAT01Matěj Mužátko36,734, 35, 32, 41, 39, 42, 47, 33, 34, 37, 35, 3791.2008MORE02Hippolyte Moreau36,934, 40, 29, 34, 33, 36, 36, DNF, 32, 44, 51, 2891.2011LIUR02Rui-Jun Liu (劉睿鈞)36,930, 33, 36, 32, DNF, 37, 44, 35, 42, 35, 44, 3193.2013PRZY02Ryan Przybocki3742, 43, 32, 42, 33, 38, 33, 27, 38, 36, DNF, 3394.2014KOVA07Bence Kovács37,141, 28, 33, 41, 38, 40, 40, 39, 34, 37, 41, 2795.2012KALE01Przemysław Kaleta37,235, 38, 39, 40, 31, 39, 41, 40, 37, 32, 34, 3896.2009KIMA01Anatoly Kim37,537, 36, 32, 38, 40, 36, 35, 31, 35, 42, DNF, 4496.2010OREL02Gonzalo Orellana Barrasa37,542, 41, 39, 38, 38, 31, 43, DNF, 25, 35, 28, 4096.2013LEJE03Kennan LeJeune37,539, DNF, 37, 39, 38, 35, 35, 27, 38, 48, 35, 3199.2012HALE01Callum Hales-Jepp37,637, 35, 39, 41, 36, 39, 53, 31, 33, 35, 34, 47100.2009ZHAN53Weixing Zhang (张炜星)37,741, 41, 38, 33, 32, 40, 41, DNF, 38, 37, 34, 34






Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Average of 50 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Average of 50Individual Results1.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux27,3630, 29, 28, 32, 28, 32, 31, 25, 23, 29, 31, 27, 28, 28, 27, 27, 26, 31, 27, 27, 30, 28, 25, 27, 28, 26, 26, 27, 28, 26, 29, 27, 26, 29, 25, 29, 26, 27, 30, 26, 27, 22, 23, 28, 26, 26, 27, 29, 24, 242.2009OKAY01Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭)29,3420, 29, 27, 29, 28, 32, 31, 34, 27, 29, 30, 31, 28, 27, 29, 31, DNF, 28, 25, 28, 29, 30, 29, 30, 32, 35, 24, 33, 28, 30, DNF, DNF, 30, 27, 33, 31, 32, 24, 21, 33, 25, 30, 30, 28, 31, 26, 26, 30, 27, 293.2010BENT01Jan Bentlage29,5531, 32, 36, 29, 34, 33, 36, 29, 29, 30, 31, 33, 32, 28, 31, 37, 27, 29, 28, DNF, 28, 29, 31, 29, 31, 25, 31, 29, 28, 22, 25, 31, 28, 39, 30, 25, 27, 31, 27, 22, 26, 29, 31, 28, 32, 27, 27, 28, 28, 264.2008BARA01Bence Barát30,8431, 34, 31, 33, 33, 38, 29, 38, 31, 30, 32, 27, 29, 35, 26, 35, 35, 24, 38, 29, 28, 30, 31, 27, 28, 36, 33, 26, 31, 33, 33, 32, 36, 29, 32, 32, 25, 28, 28, 25, 32, 30, 33, 33, 30, 27, 33, 31, 26, 295.2005AKKE01Erik Akkersdijk35,4142, 39, 35, 41, 42, 37, 33, 36, 34, 39, 38, 31, 39, 32, 35, 26, 37, 34, 34, DNF, 37, DNF, 33, 31, 31, 40, 30, 33, 32, 33, 37, 35, 26, 39, 37, 32, 42, 34, 32, 35, 37, 37, 30, DNF, 35, 34, 36, 32, 29, 36






Spoiler: Top 100 FMC rolling Average of 100 (from official results)




PositionIDNameBest Average of 100Individual Results1.2008AURO01Sébastien Auroux27,4326, 26, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, 30, DNF, 28, 25, 23, 30, 31, 29, 27, 26, 31, 26, 29, 26, 31, 23, 25, 29, 25, 30, 29, 24, 32, 27, 27, 29, 26, 30, 33, 27, 24, 26, 23, 24, 29, 30, 30, 27, 27, 21, 30, 29, 30, 30, 29, 28, 32, 28, 32, 31, 25, 23, 29, 31, 27, 28, 28, 27, 27, 26, 31, 27, 27, 30, 28, 25, 27, 28, 26, 26, 27, 28, 26, 29, 27, 26, 29, 25, 29, 26, 27, 30, 26, 27, 22, 23, 28, 26, 26, 27, 29, 24, 242.2008BARA01Bence Barát32,84DNF, 36, 30, 39, 38, 41, 35, 36, 32, 36, 39, 30, 36, 35, 34, 38, 33, 35, 36, 39, 31, 36, 33, 36, 35, 38, 41, 34, 40, DNF, 31, 31, 34, DNF, DNF, 38, 35, 25, 31, 35, 28, 31, 30, 30, 34, 34, 23, 31, 36, 31, 34, 31, 33, 33, 38, 29, 38, 31, 30, 32, 27, 29, 35, 26, 35, 35, 24, 38, 29, 28, 30, 31, 27, 28, 36, 33, 26, 31, 33, 33, 32, 36, 29, 32, 32, 25, 28, 28, 25, 32, 30, 33, 33, 30, 27, 33, 31, 26, 29, 35


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## Hssandwich (Dec 10, 2015)

Could someone find a decent continuation for this scramble?

F R' B U R2 B' U D R' U' B2 D2 R L B2 R' F2 L' B2 D2 L

U //Two 2x1x1s (1/1)
R U //2x2x1 (2/3)
B L F' //2x2x2 (3/6)


What I did


Spoiler



D2 B D2 F D' F' //2x2x3 (6/12)
B' R2 U R2 U' //F2L-1 (5/17)
D B' D' R' B2 R // Tripod block (6/23)
B' D B' D' B R' B R //Tripod F2L(8/31)
U B U2 L U L2 B L //Tripod LL(8/39)

39 moves

I couldn't find a very good 2x2x3 and there weren't any helpful EOs that I found, so I made some more blocks.


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## Sam N (Dec 10, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> Could someone find a decent continuation for this scramble?
> 
> F R' B U R2 B' U D R' U' B2 D2 R L B2 R' F2 L' B2 D2 L



Have you tried using the inverse scramble? there is some decent stuff there.


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## CyanSandwich (Dec 11, 2015)

Tried the scramble from NZ nats. I couldn't do FMC because I was doing MBLD. I got a 33, with the winning solution being 39.


Spoiler



F' L2 D' B' R' U2 F L' D L2 F' B R2 D2 F D2 B' R2 U2 L2
i: L2 U2 R2 B D2 F' D2 R2 B' F L2 D' L F' U2 R B D L2 F

() = On inverse
D' L D F U' F' //2x2x2
B R2 B2 R //Pseudo 2x2x3
(R B2 L U2 L' B' U' B') //F2L-1
(L U2 L') //F2L
(R' F2 L F L' F R U)//3C (29)

skel: D' L D F U' F' B R2 B2 R U' R' F' L F' L' F2 R L U2 L' B U B L U2 (^) L' B2 R'

^ F' L' B2 L F L' B2 L (cancels 4)

Solution: D' L D F U' F' B R2 B2 R U' R' F' L F' L' F2 R L U2 L' B U B L U2 F' L' B2 L F L' R' (33)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I also had this 23 move L4C, but ran out of time. Optimal insertions gave 32.
D' L D F U' F' //2x2x2
B R2 B2 R //Pseudo 2x2x3
(R B2 L U2 L' B' U' B R B R' B U') // 4C (23)

skel: D' L D F U' F' B R2 B2 R U B' R B' R' B' U B L U2 L' B2 R'


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## Cale S (Dec 11, 2015)

CyanSandwich said:


> Tried the scramble from NZ nats. I couldn't do FMC because I was doing MBLD. I got a 33, with the winning solution being 39.





Spoiler: my attempt, 27 moves



F' L2 D' B' R' U2 F L' D L2 F' B R2 D2 F D2 B' R2 U2 L2

B (F2 D' R' D) // 2x2x2
(R2) F U' R' F (F2) // 2x2x3
(R' U2 B U B' U') // to L5C

skeleton:
B F U' R' F U B & U' B' U2 $ R F2 R2 D' R D F2

insert at $: [U2, B D2 B'] 
insert at &: [B2, U F U'] 

final solution: B F U' R' F U B' U F U' B2 U F' U2 D2 B' U2 B D2 B' R F2 R2 D' R D F2 (27)


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## Montykins (Dec 11, 2015)

sqAree said:


> Hi, I have no clue about fmc in general but I wanted to try it once for fun, so yesterday I gave myself 20min on this Pyraminx scramble: U' R' U B' L' U L' R' U' L U B' L' U L R' B.
> 
> Seeing the block on the bottom left I decided to go for keyhole and found this 4-move top + centers: [R] B U' L U', which leaves only a U-perm ([R] L R' L' R' U' R' U to finish).
> However, permuting the blue edges at the very start works as well, giving me something like  L R' L' R' U' R' U [R'] L U' R U', which cancels one turn in theory, and the final solution without rotations is: R B' R' B' U' B' U' L' B L' (10 turns).
> ...




Inverse: B' R' L' U R U // AB3E

Skeleton: U' R' U' L * R B
Insert at *: R B L B' L' R' // 2 Moves Cancelled

Solution: U' R' U' L R B L B' L' B // 10 Moves

Same movecount as yours, and I'm pretty sure 10 moves is optimal for this scramble.

If you don't know much about FMC and this solution confuses you a bit, watch Jayden's FMC tutorials on YT. They easily cover all the techniques I just used, and way more.


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## tx789 (Dec 11, 2015)

CyanSandwich said:


> Tried the scramble from NZ nats. I couldn't do FMC because I was doing MBLD. I got a 33, with the winning solution being 39.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...




My winning solution. I might of been able to get better but couldn't be bothered, I expected a forty something result. So I was happy with this. If I got a 38 or less I could have had NR. 

click here 
Uw' F D R U' R' //2x2x2 block
B2 U' L R' U R //2x2x3 block
L2 U2 F' L //F2L#3
F2 U2 F' U F U' F'// F2L#4
Bw' R' U' R U Bw//OLL
U R2 U' F B' R2 F' B U' R2//PLL


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## coldsun0630 (Dec 11, 2015)

30 HTM with Human Kociemba Method


Scramble: U' L2 U R2 U R2 F2 U2 L2 B2 U' R' D2 B' R2 U2 B2 D U F' L
Solution: U F B' D' B U L D2 R' U2 R D2 R' U2 B2 U F2 R B2 R' U2 L' B2 R D2 R D2 R2 D2 R2 (30)

- Phase 1
U F B' D' B // EO (5/5)
U L [1] R' B2 U // CO-2 (5/10)
- Phase 2
F2 R B2 R' U2 L' B2 // arrange some blocks (7/17)
R D2 R D2 R2 D2 R2 // AB3C (7/24)
- insert at [1]: D2 R' U2 R D2 R' U2 R (6/30)


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## Montykins (Dec 11, 2015)

I was doing a practice fmc and I got this 16 move skeleton, but there are 2 swapped corners, 2 swapped edges and 1 twisted corner. So bad!
Any suggestions?

Premove: R2 L
Scramble: B F2 R' B2 F U' B' D B D U2 L D R D' F D L' D U'
Inverse Scramble: U D' L D' F' D R' D' L' U2 D' B' D' B U F' B2 R F2 B'

R' F' D R2 F // 1x2x3
[SWITCH]
R F L' F R // Pseudo F2L-3 + 1x2x2 + random pair
B L B' U // AB2E+2C+1 Twisted corner

Skeleton: R' F' D R2 F R2 L' U' B L' B' R' F' L F' R'


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## porkynator (Dec 11, 2015)

Can someone find a good way to finish this?
From the current weekly FMC:


Spoiler



Scramble: U2 B D2 L R F' U2 B' R' L2 B U' R' L' D F U R' L2 D2

On normal with premove U':
L2 U2 R' F //2x2x2 -1 move
R D2 R' //2x2x1 -1 move
L' D R' //2x2x3 + 3 pairs

On inverse:
U F' D' F2 //All but 4 pairs

The best I could find was (on normal):
(L B L U B2 D') B (D' B2 U L' B' L')
D

can anyone do better?


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## sqAree (Dec 11, 2015)

Montykins said:


> Inverse: B' R' L' U R U // AB3E
> 
> Skeleton: U' R' U' L * R B
> Insert at *: R B L B' L' R' // 2 Moves Cancelled
> ...



Thanks for your answer! I have an agreement with a friend to not learn any fmc techniques until January where we will both compete cluelessly in fmc in a real comp.  I was just interested for this particular scramble.
I understand your solution, I just wonder why the insert, solving the last 3 edges after U' R' U' L R B would result in the same movecount.

According to an optimal solver, 8 moves is optimal btw: R U' L' R L' R B U'. But I don't understand how I am supposed to find this solution at all.


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## Brest (Dec 11, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> Could someone find a decent continuation for this scramble?
> 
> F R' B U R2 B' U D R' U' B2 D2 R L B2 R' F2 L' B2 D2 L
> 
> ...



D R D' R2 D' R2 B D' B // F2L-1

I found some silly finishes from here, but nothing great.


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## Hssandwich (Dec 11, 2015)

Raptor56 said:


> Have you tried using the inverse scramble? there is some decent stuff there.



I tried the inverse, as you suggested, and found some decent stuff, but I couldn't find a decent finish:

F R' B U R2 B' U D R' U' B2 D2 R L B2 R' F2 L' B2 D2 L
Inverse: L' B2 D2 L F2 R B2 L' R' D2 B2 U R D' U' B R2 U' B' R F'

On inverse:

2x1x1s: F2

F2 // Two 2x1x1s (1/1)
R' F D' U' L // 2x2x2 (5/6)
B' D' B F' R // 2x2x3 (5/11)
F L' F2 L // F2L-1 (4/15)


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## irontwig (Dec 11, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> I tried the inverse, as you suggested, and found some decent stuff, but I couldn't find a decent finish:
> 
> F R' B U R2 B' U D R' U' B2 D2 R L B2 R' F2 L' B2 D2 L
> Inverse: L' B2 D2 L F2 R B2 L' R' D2 B2 U R D' U' B R2 U' B' R F'
> ...



Just barely sub-30, but:

F2 R' F D' U' F2 L
U' R2 U R F' R'
F2 R2 F' R'
B' D'
U' R U R' F' R' F R 
D B


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## Hssandwich (Dec 11, 2015)

Hssandwich said:


> I tried the inverse, as you suggested, and found some decent stuff, but I couldn't find a decent finish:
> 
> F R' B U R2 B' U D R' U' B2 D2 R L B2 R' F2 L' B2 D2 L
> Inverse: L' B2 D2 L F2 R B2 L' R' D2 B2 U R D' U' B R2 U' B' R F'
> ...


Oh dear, I screwed up the inverse scramble..... It should be D2 B2 instead of B2 D2 :fp


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## Cale S (Dec 11, 2015)

porkynator said:


> Can someone find a good way to finish this?
> From the current weekly FMC:
> 
> 
> ...



Here's a 23 with a variation of your start:


Spoiler



(U) L2 U2 R' F 
R D2 % R' 
D L' R'
D F' D2 F D F2 D F // to L3C

insert at %: [D2, R U2 R']


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## Montykins (Dec 12, 2015)

sqAree said:


> Thanks for your answer! I have an agreement with a friend to not learn any fmc techniques until January where we will both compete cluelessly in fmc in a real comp.  I was just interested for this particular scramble.
> I understand your solution, I just wonder why the insert, solving the last 3 edges after U' R' U' L R B would result in the same movecount.
> 
> According to an optimal solver, 8 moves is optimal btw: R U' L' R L' R B U'. But I don't understand how I am supposed to find this solution at all.



Haha ok maybe I'm not as good at pyra fmc as I thought! Still good fun though


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## porkynator (Dec 12, 2015)

Cale S said:


> Here's a 23 with a variation of your start:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



That's actually what I've submitted in the end, but I was curious if anyone could find a good way to solve that 4+4 cycle


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## EMI (Dec 12, 2015)

Montykins said:


> I was doing a practice fmc and I got this 16 move skeleton, but there are 2 swapped corners, 2 swapped edges and 1 twisted corner. So bad!
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Premove: R2 L
> ...



R' F' D R2 F R2 L' U' B L' B' R' @ F' L F' R' #
@ = R B L' B L B2 R' U2 (OLL)
# = L B' L' B R' B2 L B' L' B2 R (PLL)

In total: R' F' D R2 F R2 L' U' B L2 B L B2 R' U2 F' L F' R' L B' L' B R' B2 L B' L' B2 R (30)


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## Jaysammey777 (Dec 13, 2015)

*Help with Insertions*

Hi! kinda nooby, I just learned coms and insertions a week or so ago (always knew the idea but never put to practice). And so I have a really nice FMC solve this week (Best skeleton Ive even had), but had to stick the com at the end cause I couldn't find anywhere for it to cancel. Any suggestions?

Spoiler: this is from Weekly Comp 50 FMC


Spoiler



Sramble: F2 U' R U2 F2 U L2 F R' D F U2 D2 F2 R2 D2 R2 B L2 F2 
EO-line: F D B U' L B' (6)
psuedo block: F2 B2 L R2 F2 B2 (6/12)
1x2x3 on right: F2 R2 L F2 L' U F2 R2 F2 (9/21) (Edge skip)
L3C: U R U' L' U R' U' L (8/29)
fix psuedo block: L2(1/30)

cancel: F2 B2 F2 = B2 30-28 = 20; L L2 = L' 28-1 = 27

F D B U' L B' F2 B2 L R2 B2 R2 L F2 L' U F2 R2 F2 U R U' L' U R' U' L'

so the com cancles 1 move, but ya couldn't do any better than sticking it at the end :/


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## CyanSandwich (Dec 13, 2015)

Jaysammey777 said:


> Hi! kinda nooby, I just learned coms and insertions a week or so ago (always knew the idea but never put to practice). And so I have a really nice FMC solve this week (Best skeleton Ive even had), but had to stick the com at the end cause I couldn't find anywhere for it to cancel. Any suggestions?
> 
> Spoiler: this is from Weekly Comp 50 FMC
> 
> ...


That was the optimal insertion, using insertion finder. You missed a cancellation in your skeleton though; B' F2 B2 could be B F2.


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## Jaysammey777 (Dec 13, 2015)

CyanSandwich said:


> That was the optimal insertion, using insertion finder. You missed a cancellation in your skeleton though; B' F2 B2 could be B F2.



thats a pretty cool site, so it works with multiple cycles?

and also :< dang I cant believe my PB could have been even shorter


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## CyanSandwich (Dec 13, 2015)

Jaysammey777 said:


> thats a pretty cool site, so it works with multiple cycles?
> 
> and also :< dang I cant believe my PB could have been even shorter


Yeah, it works with up to 4 insertions.


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## EMI (Dec 18, 2015)

Official 24 from two weeks ago.
Scramble: F2 D2 L' F' U' R F' U D B' R2 F2 L U2 B2 R2 F2 U2 R' U2
At a first glance, it looks fine with these two blocks. Turns out though, there is no simple way to use them at all (neither on the normal, nor on the inverse scramble). I didn't find any sub 6 move 2x2x2 blocks and no good EO starts in general.
Then I tried making another block with R'. Then I switched and found a 2x2x2 block in another 5 moves at least:
Block: R'
Switch to inverse, 2x2x2: L' D' B R' D2
From here it looks quite promising! You can make a 2x2x3 with L2 U L (after a total of 9 moves), but I didn't find a good continuation. Then I tried U L F' to make a peudo 2x2x3 (so 10 moves for the 2x2x3), again no good continuation. Then I tried
2x2x3: U L F' L2 F
So we're at 11 moves already, quite much. But there is a super lucky finish:
AB3C: B' U2 L U L' B2 U2 B'
So the skeleton is
R' B U2 B2 L U' L' U2 B F' L2 F L' @ D2 U' R B' D L
@ = L U' L' D L U L' D' cancels 3

Final solution: R' B U2 B2 L U' L' U2 B F' L2 F U' L' D L U L' D U' R B' D L (24)

Funnily, Sébastien and Marcel both found their best solution on this scramble as well, and I think they also used some sort of bad start resulting in a very short finish.
So, sadly just third with 26.67


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## Mollerz (Dec 21, 2015)

Official 26 from Welcome Thay Cambridge last weekend.

Scramble: B2 F' D2 F' L2 U2 F' U' B2 F R' D2 L2 U F2 U R U2

*R U2 R B2* // 2x2x2
*L2 U2 L2* // 2x2x3 - Seems like everyone found these blocks, pretty much everyone had them on their sheet somewhere. I tried preserving the other pair but didn't find anything whilst doing that. On inverse there was L2 U2 to create a 2x2x3 that I found out about afterwards from Daniel, I'm amazed I didn't see it.
*U' F2 U R F U2 F' R'* // Squares everywhere - I actually had the intention of just making the WGO square, and not the WBR square. However I noticed by inserting that R move, you just build both squares at once.
*F2 U F2* // Solve edges - Pretty lucky to only need to do this after making those squares. This leaves a 2+2 corner cycle.

Insertions: R U2 R B2 L2 U2 L2 U' F2 U R * F U2 F' R' F2 U F2 (18)
* = D2 F ^ U2 F' D2 F U2 F'
^ = F2 U B2 U' F2 U B2 U'

Pretty straight forward. With 2+2 I just go through the solution and look for commutator bits. You can pretty much always cancel 4 or 5, but this one cancels 6, very nice. Second insertion was the best one I found and it cancelled 2 for a total of 8 cancelled.

Final solution: R U2 R B2 L2 U2 L2 U' F2 U R D2 F' U B2 U' F2 U B2 U F' D2 R' F2 U F2

Very pleased with this, was just hoping for my first sub-30 since I've been practicing at home. But this means I overtook Evan in FMC, meaning I no longer have any nemesis! Hooray!


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## kinch2002 (Dec 21, 2015)

Welcome Thay Cambridge Open 2015
Scramble: B2 F' D2 F' L2 U2 F' U' B2 F R' D2 L2 U F2 U R U2
Solution: R U2 R B2 L' F L F' L D' L2 D R' D' L D R F' U L2 U L2 F2 U2 F2 - *25 moves*

R U2 R B2 // 2x2x2
Switch to Inverse with premoves B2 R' U2 R'
F2 U2 F2 L2 U' L2 U' // F2L-1
F D' L D L' F L' F' L // "ZBLS" leaving 3 corners

Skeleton: R U2 R B2 L' F L F' L D' L' * D F' U L2 U L2 F2 U2 F2 (20)
Insert at * L' D R' D' L D R D' to cancel 3 moves
20 + 8 - 3 = 25 moves

There was lots to experiment with following the 4 move block and I found a few other 21/22 move skeletons.
Jan tied me with 25, but a totally different solution (EO first)


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## TheCoolMinxer (Dec 26, 2015)

first ever fmc attempt at home - PB by 8 moves xD

B2 D' U2 B2 D L2 U2 R2 B2 R2 U2 F' R F' D' B' L' R2 U R U2 (this scramble really sucks)

Inverse: U2 R' U' R2 L B D F R' F U2 R2 B2 R2 U2 L2 D' B2 U2 D B2

I: R' D B L2 U //2x2
N: D2 L U L' U' //2x2x3
I: L' F L2 D L' //EO
F' D F2 D2 // F2L-1
F2 R F R2 D R D' R F' R' // F2L finish
U F U' F U F2 U' // sune pll skip kek

final solution:
D2 L U L' F2 U' F' U F' U' R F R' D R' D' R2 F' R' F2 D2 F2 D' F L D' L2 F' L U' L2 B' D' R (34)

former PB was my official 42 xD Pretty happy because I used some basic fmc concepts, thanks to Kevin


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## Cale S (Dec 28, 2015)

this is kind of cool

R2 B2 D F2 D2 B2 R' F' L2 B L2 B2 U2 D' B2 L2 B2 D B2 U2



Spoiler



I found this solution:

B2 (B' D') // 2x2x2
U2 F U2 // 2x2x3
U' R U2 F2 U' // F2L - 1
F R F' R' // square in LL
D R' D' R // to tripod LL
R' F' R2 U' R' U2 F' U' F2 // tripod LL/pure OLL
final solution: B2 U2 F U R U2 F2 U' F R F' R' D R' D' F' R2 U' R' U2 F' U' F2 D B
*25 moves*

then I used ksolve to find the optimal LSLL, and it came up with U F U2 R D' U2 F' D2 F' U' F R D'

if you use this, you can get:

B2 (B' D') // 2x2x2
U2 F U2 // 2x2x3
U' R U2 F2 U' // F2L - 1
U F U2 R D' U2 F' D2 F' U' F R D' // LSLL

final solution: B2 U2 F U R U2 F' U2 R D' U2 F' D2 F' U' F R B
*18 moves!*

Could someone confirm whether or not this is optimal?

also the scramble is from the /r/cubers daily discussion thread


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## TheCoolMinxer (Dec 28, 2015)

did another attempt today, it started quite promising but I couldN#t find anything after f2l-1, maybe some pro FMCers can help 

L' U F2 U' L2 D B2 U L2 R2 F2 D' R U2 L' B' L U' L2 D B'
Inverse: B D' L2 U L' B L U2 R' D F2 R2 L2 U' B2 D' L2 U F2 U' L

F2 U' F2 U' B' //2x2
L' U L2 U2 L2 //2x2x3
I: R U R' //F2L-1

and after that there was like nothing, on normal nor on inverse


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## CyanSandwich (Dec 29, 2015)

Had a real nice 1 move 3-corner insertion.


Spoiler



F2 L' B2 R D2 F2 R' U2 B2 U2 R2 D R2 B D' F R F' D' F
i: F' D F R' F' D B' R2 D' R2 U2 B2 U2 R F2 D2 R' B2 L F2
(L2 B2 D R' D2) //2x2x2
(F U2 F' U2 L2) //2x2x3
F2 R' F' R L' U2 L //3E5C (16)

sk: F2 R' * F' R L' U2 ^ L' U2 F U2 F' D2 R D' B2 L2

^ D' @ L2 D L' R F' L2 F R' L (cancels 2)
* R' B2 R F R' B2 R F' (cancels 2)
@ D R' D' L2 D R D' L2 (cancels 7)

Solution: F2 R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F2 R L' U2 R' D' L2 D L' R2 F' L2 F R' U2 F U2 F' D2 R D' B2 L2 (31)





TheCoolMinxer said:


> did another attempt today, it started quite promising but I couldN#t find anything after f2l-1, maybe some pro FMCers can help
> 
> L' U F2 U' L2 D B2 U L2 R2 F2 D' R U2 L' B' L U' L2 D B'
> Inverse: B D' L2 U L' B L U2 R' D F2 R2 L2 U' B2 D' L2 U F2 U' L
> ...


F2 U' F2 U' B' //2x2
L' U L2 U2 L2 //2x2x3
I: R U R' //F2L-1
I: F U *F'* //Insert edge
I:*F* R U R' U' F' U2 //L5C in 21

Maybe some pro FMCers will have a better idea.


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## G2013 (Dec 30, 2015)

I'll give it a try and see what I find: (Although I'm by no means a Pro FMCer, I'm barely a beginner XD)

Scramble: L' U F2 U' L2 D B2 U L2 R2 F2 D' R U2 L' B' L U' L2 D B'
Inverse: B D' L2 U L' B L U2 R' D F2 R2 L2 U' B2 D' L2 U F2 U' L

() is on inverse

U' B' D2 B D2 //2x2
L2 U2 L2 U L2 //Pseudo 2x2x3, Premove L
(L') //Premove
U' F2 L' U2 L F' U' F' U' R U R' F' R' F2 R F//To L3C
Skeleton: U' B' D2 B D2 L2 U2 L2 U L2 U' F2 L' U2 L F' U' F' U' R U R' F' R' F2 R F L (28)

Then insertion with IF because I don't want to search it XD

U' B' D2 B D2 L2 U2 L2 U L2 U' F2 L' U2 L F' [@1] U' F' U' R U R' F' R' F2 R F L
Insert at @1: F' D' F U F' D F U'
Fewest moves: 34. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: U' B' D2 B D2 L2 U2 L2 U L2 U' F2 L' U2 L F2 D' F U F' D F U2 F' U' R U R' F' R' F2 R F L

34 moves.
Not so bad for having found it in 10 minutes ;D


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## guysensei1 (Jan 3, 2016)

Weekly FMC
Scramble: R F2 B D2 L2 F2 B' D F2 U D B' L F2 R2 B U2 R F' U'


Spoiler



premove U'
B R2 U B2// 2x2x2 (4)
U' L' U L F U//pseudo 2x2x3+ preserve pair (10)
L2 F L U' // F2L-1 (14)
F' R' F2 R F' U F U'//F2L+EO(22)
D F' D2 B' U L2 U' B D2 F D' F//ZBLL (34)
35 moves for almost linear attempt, not bad considering I haven't done FMC in a while lol


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## Cale S (Jan 3, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> Weekly FMC
> Scramble: R F2 B D2 L2 F2 B' D F2 U D B' L F2 R2 B U2 R F' U'
> 
> 
> ...



My solution:


Spoiler



L2 // square
(B2 R2) // roux block
F2 L F' // 2x2x3 
(B' R) R // 8 move F2L - 1 lol
D B D B' // 12 move F2L lol
B' L' D' L D B D // to L3C
skeleton:
L2 F2 L F' R D B D B2 L' D' L D B D R' @ B R2 B2
@ = [L, B R B']

Final solution: L2 F2 L F' R D B D B2 L' D' L D B D R' L B R B' L' B R B2 (24)



There's also this 5 move 2x2x3: 
(B2 R2 F) L2 F2


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## tseitsei (Jan 3, 2016)

24 single nr and 28.33 mo3 nr today


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## CyanSandwich (Jan 4, 2016)

Cale S said:


> My solution:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Here's my not-so-good 33 move solution.


Spoiler



Can't believe I missed that 1 move square lol.

(L2 F L D L2) //2x2x2 (5/5)
L B L' B2 //2x2x3 (4/9)
D2 R2 //Pseudo F2L-1 (2/11)
(R') //Correct F2L-1 (1/12)
R' D2 R //Insert edge (3-1/14)
B' L' D' L D B D //5C (7/21)

sk: L B L' B2 D2 (*) R D2 R B' L' D' L D B D R L2 D' L' F' L2

* = D' R' U' R D R' U (^) R
^ = F L F' R2 F L' F' R2





tseitsei said:


> 24 single nr and 28.33 mo3 nr today


Oh snap, that's pretty good. What do you average?


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## tseitsei (Jan 4, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> Oh snap, that's pretty good. What do you average?



Thanks 

I would say that I average something like 31-32

Solves in this mean of 3 were 27 34 and 24

I'll try to post solutions and scrambles here later

EDIT: scrambles

#1
F2 L2 R2 D B2 D2 U' L' R2 F L F2 D2 U' B F2 D' U2 R'

#2
R2 U2 F R2 B' F R2 F2 U F L B2 R D R U2 B' U' R

#3
B2 D' R2 F2 D2 L2 B2 D' U' L' U' L2 F' U2 L2 R' D2 B' F2

EDIT2:

I only currently have a reconstruction for the last 24 move solve.

something I remember from the first 2 solutions:


Spoiler



1st solve was a 20 move skeleton to leave 4 corners that I got SUPER lucky insertions and cancelled 9 moves total for a 27 move solve.
Start was 
(F2 U2) //2x2x1 on inverse
B2 L2 // 2x2x2

2nd solve was 20 move skeleton to leave 5 corners. Sadly I messed up finding insertions and just had to use a simple 8 move comm for the last insertion without cancellations because I was running out of time.
I'm pretty sure that the start was:
(L2 F R2 U D' R) // 2x2x2 + 1 pair on inverse



Full reconstruction of the NR single:


Spoiler



scramble: B2 D' R2 F2 D2 L2 B2 D' U' L' U' L2 F' U2 L2 R' D2 B' F2

Solution:
(R) //2x2x1 on inverse 1/1
R U2 // pseudo 2x2x2 + pairs 2/3
(U') // add premove U' to make a real 2x2x2 1/4
L B D2 // lol moar blocks! F2L-1pair-1edge 3/7
B2 U' L' U // F2L-1 + the first B2 fixes EO also  4/11
D' B' D // 2 more pairs 3/14
B D' B2 D // All but 3 corners 4/18

Skeleton: R U2 L B D2 B2 U' L' U D' B' [1] D B D' B2 D U' R

[1] = B L B' R2 B L' B' R2 // insert at [1]. 2 moves cancel 8-2=6/24

I also had a backup/safety skeleton with 3 corners left @ 22 moves so mo3 NR was already safe but this ending also gave me a single NR 

backup:
(R) //2x2x1 on inverse 1/1
R U2 // pseudo 2x2x2 + pairs 2/3
(U') // add premove U' to make a real 2x2x2 1/4
L B D2 // lol moar blocks! F2L-1pair-1edge 3/7

Same start until here
U' L' U // F2L-1 but bad EO 4/10

After that on inverse with premoves U' L U D2 B' L' U2 R' 8/8

R' U // fix F2L-1 2/10
B' L' D L D2 B2 D //EO and preserve/build some blocks 7/17
B' L B L' B' //ab3c 5/22


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## CyanSandwich (Jan 6, 2016)

PB mo3 (first sub-30), ao5 and ao12 simultaneously 
*29.33* / _31.33_ / 32.1
36, 29, 35, 31, 34, 31, 32, _35, 33, *27, 33, 28*_



Spoiler: Mo3 solutions






Spoiler: 27



B2 U B2 U2 F2 U L2 F2 R2 B2 D B U R F R U2 B' R' U' R2
i: R2 U R B U2 R' F' R' U' B' D' B2 R2 F2 L2 U' F2 U2 B2 U' B2

(D' F R' D) //Pseudo 2x2x2 (4/4)
D2 //Fix 2x2x2 (1/5)
R' //2x2x3-corner (1/6)
U2 F' R U' R' //F2L-2 (5/11)
U' L' U L U2 //6C (5/16)

skel: D2 R' U2 F' ^ R U' R' U' L' U L U2 D' R F' D

^ U' L' U R U' L * U R' (cancels 4)
* B L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R2 (cancels 1)

solution: D2 R' U2 F' U' L' U R U' L B L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R U' L' U L U2 D' R F' D





Spoiler: 33



F2 U2 B D2 F' L2 R2 B' F' L2 F' U F' R' D' B' D F L B2 R2
i: R2 B2 L' F' D' B D R F U' F L2 F B R2 L2 F D2 B' U2 F2

(F' R F2 B' R)
F L' D' L2
F2 D F' D'
R F2 R2 D R D'
L' U L U' F' U' F U F' //3C (28)

sk: F L' D' L2 F2 D F' D' R F2 ^ R2 D R D' L' U L U' F' U' F U F' R' B F2 R' F
RGW - RGY - RBY
^ F L F' R2 F L' F' R2

solution: F L' D' L2 F2 D F' D' R F' L F' R2 F L' F' D R D' L' U L U' F' U' F U F' R' B F2 R' F (33)





Spoiler: 28



Super lucky insertions.

L2 F2 U B2 F2 D2 B2 U' L2 R2 B2 R B D2 B L2 U' F U' L2 R2
I: R2 L2 U F' U L2 B' D2 B' R' B2 R2 L2 U B2 D2 F2 B2 U' F2 L2

D' L' F L F //2x2x2 (5/5)
(F D' B' L) //Pseudo 2x2x3 (4/9)
L' //Fix Pseudoness (1/10)
D2 B2 D2 R D' R' //F2L-1 +EO (6/16)
D' B D B' L B' L' //5C (6/22)

skel: D' L' ^ F L F L' D2 B2 D2 R D' R' D' * B D B' L B' L2 B D F'

* = D' F' D B D' F D B' (cancels 4)
^ = L B L' F L B' L' F' (cancels 6!)

solution: D' B L' F L B' F L' D2 B2 D2 R D' R' D2 F' D B D' F D2 B' L B' L2 B D F' (28)


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## Tanish (Jan 7, 2016)

*FMC Help*

okay.. so i want to start with FMC. i think its a really cool thing to do. so some basic questions
1) do we use htm or qtm to count the number of moves
2) what are the most common methods used for fmc
3) and in the beginning, should i just try to get a good average of like 45 or 50 using cfop or directly learn some advanced method to get like 30 or 25 move solutions?


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## Sam N (Jan 7, 2016)

1. you use HTM. meaning that R2 is counted as one move not two.

2. There is nothing wrong with using CFOP, however I would not advise it. It's very rare to be able to get sub 40 with CFOP unless you spam things like crazy. As a beginner, I feel aiming for sub-40 is a good starting goal to have. getting to sub 30 consistently takes some practice with FMC techniques, however it's not that difficult to achieve if you practice enough.

For FMC techniques, I find that these skills are something every FMC solver uses

- inverse scrambles

- pre moves

- insertions for edges and corner pairs (examples being L3C = last 3 corners)

-having to do multiple insertions (things like L5C = last five corners)

- what a skeleton is

- basic block-building techniques such as pseudo-blocks

There are other advanced topics, but these are what I feel are a good introduction to FMC. THey might look difficult at first, but just take your time and you'll understand them. They are really fun and cool once you know how to use them. 

If you want to practice FMC, you can always participate in the weekly competition on the forums. They have FMC every week, which is a good way to help maintain your skills at the event.


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## Tanish (Jan 7, 2016)

is the heise method used most widely for fmc just like cfop is used for 3x3??


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## AlphaSheep (Jan 7, 2016)

Read this. It's the best place to start by far: http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf


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## Tanish (Jan 7, 2016)

So.....I was going through FMC Regulations and I couldn't understand E2e1. Can anyone explain it to me? Thanks in advance!

the link- 

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#E2e1


Also i noticed that some comps have fmc mean of 3 and some have a single attempt. why is it like this??


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## TDM (Jan 7, 2016)

Tanish said:


> So.....I was going through FMC Regulations and I couldn't understand E2e1. Can anyone explain it to me? Thanks in advance!
> 
> the link-
> 
> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#E2e1


If the delegate suspects someone has cheated (e.g. somehow used a computer to generate a near-optimal solution) they can ask the person to explain how the found it.



> Also i noticed that some comps have fmc mean of 3 and some have a single attempt. why is it like this??


Although Mo3 is ranked officially, many competitions don't have a spare three hours to dedicate to this. So, the majority of competitions will only have one FMC attempt.


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## Tanish (Jan 7, 2016)

Thanks a lot! All of you!


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## tseitsei (Jan 7, 2016)

1) htm

2) There is no real "method of doing FMC. You have to try many things and see what works best for that particular case. 
That said the "standard" solution is often 
1. Blockbuilding until F2L - 1 pair is ready
2. Solve most of the pieces and leave rest of the pieces so that they can be solved with 1-2 comms
3. Solve rest of the pieces with commutator insertions

3) IMO you should start learning blockbuilding and comms right away. Doing FMC with plane CFOP is quite boring. You just spam different last slot or last 2 slots until you find a skip...

And the most important thing: READ THIS http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf
It's really pretty much everything you need to know about FMC...


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## BQ (Jan 8, 2016)

Prakhar said:


> I was analyzing Keaton's 5.09 scramble for fmc and found this-
> 
> Scramble: D2 B2 F R2 U2 B R D' L' U2 L' D' B' L' D2 B2 L
> Skeleton: R F L B' D' F'
> ...



Yes, due to the performance and the most actual cases don't need 4 insertions, I disabled it. I've searched it for you just now: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/dc239cf69c6a395cef3d2978c58b15f5.cube
The new version of IF is under construction and doing 4 insertions will be added back as queued tasks in order to make the server more stable. So that if anyone who want to search them could do it in the feature.


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## G2013 (Jan 8, 2016)

29 in weekly FMC
() is on inverse



Spoiler



Scramble: R F2 B D2 L2 F2 B' D F2 U D B' L F2 R2 B U2 R F' U'
Inverse: U F R' U2 B' R2 F2 L' B D' U' F2 D' B F2 L2 D2 B' F2 R'

L2 F' L' B' L' B2 L' F2 B2 //2x2x3
(D2 R' D R) //F2L-1 pseudo, premove R2
R2 //Premove
R D R' //Pair

L' u2 L D' L' u2 L D -> Pair cycle, translated below

L' D2 R D' R' D2 L //Pair cycle to L3C
B2 R2 B L B' R2 B L' B //A PLL

Backup solve: L2 F' L' B' L' B2 L' F2 B2 R' D R' L' D2 R D' R' D2 L B2 R2 B L B' R2 B L' B R' D' R D2 (32 HTM)
Skeleton: L2 F' L' B' L' B2 L' F2 B2 R' D R' L' D2 R D' R' D2 L R' D' R D2 (23)

Insertion:
L2 F' L' B' L' B2 L' F2 B2 R' D R' L' D2 R D' R' D2 L R' D' R D2 (D' R2 D L D' R2 D L') +8-1=30
L2 F' L' B' L' B2 (D L' U L D' L' U' L) L' F2 B2 R' D R' L' D2 R D' R' D2 L R' D' R D2 +8-2=29
L2 F' L' B' L' B2 L' (L D L' U L D' L' U') F2 B2 R' D R' L' D2 R D' R' D2 L R' D' R D2 +8-2=29
L2 F' L' B' L' B2 L' F2 B2 R' D (F L' F' R F L F' R') R' L' D2 R D' R' D2 L R' D' R D2 +8-1=30

Final solve: L2 F' L' B' L' B2 D L' U L D' L' U' F2 B2 R' D R' L' D2 R D' R' D2 L R' D' R D2 (29 HTM)

First sub-30 of the year!
Nice solve, after the 9-move 2x2x3 every edge was oriented 
I'm happy with the result.
Insertions are optimals  That's even better!


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## guysensei1 (Jan 10, 2016)

L B R2 U' R2 L F2 U' B' U' L2 U' R2 U L2 D' R2 B2 R2 U2 

L D R' D R//2x2x2
B U' B U' L2//2x2x3
R' U R L' B2 L //F2L-1
U B' U2 B //3 pairs unsolved
F' U L U L' U' F U2//WV alg and PLL skip

28 moves, cool solve

EDIT: lmao using insertion finder to solve the 3 pairs cancels to the WV alg anyway

L D R' D R B U' B U' L2 R' U R L' B2 L U B' U2 B [@1] U'
Insert at @1: F' D F U F' D' F U'
After the 1st insertion: L D R' D R B U' B U' L2 R' U R L' B2 L U B' U2 B F' D F U F' D' [@2] F U2
Insert at @2: D F U' F' U D' L U L' U'
Fewest moves: 28. 11 moves cancelled
The final solution: L D R' D R B U' B U' L2 R' U R L' B2 L U B' U2 B F' U L U L' U' F U2


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## tseitsei (Jan 10, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> L B R2 U' R2 L F2 U' B' U' L2 U' R2 U L2 D' R2 B2 R2 U2
> 
> L D R' D R//2x2x2
> B U' B U' L2//2x2x3
> ...



That WV alg you used is actually just a pure 8-move pair commutator [F' Dw F : U]

Those are quite handy sometimes


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## Berd (Jan 10, 2016)

Just did and FMC, got a 12 move 2x2x3, then the final solution was a 49 . I'll post in a sec, I need some tips!

EDIT:

F L F' D B' U2 R2 B F' L' F R // 2X2X3 U B U' B2 U' B U B' U' B2 U B // F2L-1U R B' R' U' R' U R B // F2L + CPR U R' U R U2 R U' F B' R2 F' B U' R2 U2 // LL

The good bit: 

Scramble: R2 L2 F2 U2 B L' D R' F' D' B2 R2 F L2 U2 F' B' R2 D2

2x2x3: F L F' D B' U2 R2 B F' L' F R 

Where to continue?


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## Cale S (Jan 10, 2016)

Berd said:


> Just did and FMC, got a 12 move 2x2x3, then the final solution was a 49 . I'll post in a sec, I need some tips!
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...



B2 L U' L' // square
U B' U' B U L' B2 U' B U L // to L3C

skeleton: F L F' D B' U2 R2 B F' L' F @ R B2 L U' L' U B' U' B U L' B2 U' B U L
@ = [F' L2 F, R'] 

Final solution: F L F' D B' U2 R2 B F' L F R' F' L2 F R2 B2 L U' L' U B' U' B U L' B2 U' B U L (31)


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## G2013 (Jan 10, 2016)

Berd said:


> Just did and FMC, got a 12 move 2x2x3, then the final solution was a 49 . I'll post in a sec, I need some tips!
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...



D F' R L B F R U2 R' is a shorter 2x2x3


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## xyzzy (Jan 11, 2016)

Berd said:


> Scramble: R2 L2 F2 U2 B L' D R' F' D' B2 R2 F L2 U2 F' B' R2 D2
> 
> 2x2x3: F L F' D B' U2 R2 B F' L' F R
> 
> Where to continue?



(Sorry for the incoming wall of text!)

The F' L' F and R ending of your 2x2x3 can be swapped without affecting the 2x2x3, so that provides an alternative when you're stuck.

F L F' D B' U2 R2 B R F' L' F // 2x2x3 (12)
B2 U' B2 U B2 U' B' U2 B' U' // slot, trying to keep the other c/e pieces pairable (10/22)
B' L' B' L // F2L (4/26)
L B' R' B L' B' R // L3C (6/32)

Even without changing the block (and without making use of pseudoblocks), there are two ways to expand the 2x2x3 into F2L, so explore the other direction too. There's most likely a better insertion than finishing with an A perm here, but this is just for illustrative purposes.

F L F' D B' U2 R2 B F' L' F R // 2x2x3 (12)
B2 U2 B2 U B U' B U2 // slot (8/20)
B U B' U' B L' B L // EO+F2L, OLL skip! (8/28)
L2 U2 L D L' U2 L D' L B // PLL/L3C (9/37)

And even if we want to stick to the same F2L-1, corner permutation is a relatively useless step unless you're doing linear FMC and you know most of the optimal 2GLL algs, or if you get the seven-move Sune. If you try to solve CP together with F2L (using CPLS, ZZ-d, etc.), this also prevents you from using a single corner 3-cycle insertion because all corner 3-cycles affect CP. Again, this example solve might have a better insertion.

F L F' D B' U2 R2 B F' L' F R // 2x2x3 (12)
U B U' B2 U' B U B' U' B2 U B // F2L-1 (12/24)
U' R' U2 R U // F2L (5/29)
L U' R' U L' U' R B' U' B U' B' U2 B // 22LL (14/43)


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## Sebastien (Jan 11, 2016)

Since I wasn't able to achieve cool FMC single records recently, I will just try to brag with another achievement I was quite happy about to reach this past competition weekend. 

26, 27, (22), 23, 28, 26, 26, 27, (29), 24, 24, 24 = 25,5 average of 12 from official solves


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## sqAree (Jan 12, 2016)

So I competed in FMC at Cubelonia and I'm pretty proud of my results given that it was the first time in my life I did FMC for 3x3. Nonetheless tips are appreciated.

1st scramble: B U2 F U2 F2 D2 F' U2 L2 F' D R F U2 L2 R2 U' F' L2


Spoiler: solution



F' B' U2 //2x2x1 + pair
F2 U' F2 //2x2x2 + preserve pair
F L' B' L F' L' //another 2x2x2 using the pair
R D R' D' B' D B //F2L-1
D2 L D L' D' F' D F //F2L with insert that gives me the most easy OLL
F L D L' D' F' //OLL
D2 L' D' L B2 U R' D R D' R U' B2 //PLL

final solution: F' B' U2 F2 U' F' L' B' L F' L' R D R' D' B' D B D2 L D L' D' F' D F2 L D L' D' F' D2 L' D' L B2 U R' D R D' R U' B2 (44 moves)



2nd scramble: L2 F2 U' B2 D' U2 F2 U R2 U' B2 F R B R B' L R2 B F2


Spoiler: solution



D' L' R' D' U F U' F' //2x2x2
U B R B R2 B' U2 //2x2x3
B2 D B' D' R B2 R' //F2L-1
B D B' D' //pair
B2 D B2 D' //F2L with OLL I know and that is short
L B L' B' L' D L D' //OLL
R B' R B R B R B' R' B' R2 B //PLL

final solution: D' L' R' D' U F U' F' U B R B R2 B' U2 B2 D B' D' R B2 R' B D B' D' B2 D B2 D' L B L' B' L' D L D' R B' R B R B R B' R' B' R2 B (50 moves)



3rd scramble: L2 D2 B2 F' R2 F' U2 B' F2 L' D2 U B F' D L2 R' D' L U2


Spoiler: solution



B R' B2 R' //2x2x1 + pair
F U F2 //2x2x2 + preserve pair
R2 D B' R2 B2 R' //2x2x3 + pair
B' D B D2 B' D2 //F2L-1
B' D B D' //pair
B' D B2 D' //F2L (with B D' R D R' I could have had better OLL but G instead of A perm)
D B D' B' D' R D R' //OLL
R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 //PLL

final solution: B R' B2 R' F U F2 R2 D B' R2 B2 R' B' D B D2 B' D2 B' D B D' B' D B' D' B' D' R D R2 U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 (40 moves)


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## penguinz7 (Jan 12, 2016)

sqAree said:


> So I competed in FMC at Cubelonia and I'm pretty proud of my results given that it was the first time in my life I did FMC for 3x3. Nonetheless tips are appreciated.
> 
> 
> [/SPOILER]



Tip 1: Don't do OLL/PLL. Unless you get a skip.

Tip 2: This


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## sqAree (Jan 12, 2016)

I'm reading it atm, was hoping for more scramble-specific tips. ^^


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## JamesDanko (Jan 13, 2016)

sqAree said:


> R B' R B R B R B' R' B' R2 B //PLL



F2 U' L R' F2 L' R U' F2

The U' moves can be substituted with U moves.


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## sqAree (Jan 14, 2016)

JamesDanko said:


> F2 U' L R' F2 L' R U' F2
> 
> The U' moves can be substituted with U moves.



Thanks, that's helpful!


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## irontwig (Jan 14, 2016)

sqAree said:


> I'm reading it atm, was hoping for more scramble-specific tips. ^^



Just in case you'd get the same scramble(s) again?


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## sqAree (Jan 14, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Just in case you'd get the same scramble(s) again?



My solution is obviously included when I talk about "scramble-specific". It's not like no one ever gave tips to people and improved their solutions, in any event.


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## Keroma12 (Jan 14, 2016)

From the weekly competition, week 2 (this week). I was wondering if there is a nice way to finish this:



Spoiler



Scramble: F2 U F2 L2 F2 D U2 F2 U2 R2 B2 L U' B' F' D' L' F U2 L U2
Inverse: U2 L' U2 F' L D F B U L' B2 R2 U2 F2 U2 D' F2 L2 F2 U' F2

cross + edge: (F L2 U') (3/3)
corresponding corner: (R' B L B') (4/7)
another corner: (D L D') (3/10)
and it's edge: (L R B L' B' R2) (6/16)

Played around from here a lot, didn't find anything I could use. The following gives a Z-perm:
(D L' D2 L D2 F' D' F) (8/24)

(I initial had found a different 36 move solution, ended up using that.)


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## porkynator (Jan 17, 2016)

I got the usual "You have already submitted a solution" error on the weekly FMC website. I'm posting it here.

Scramble (warning: competition in progress!): B' U F R' L U R2 D' U' R D2 F R' D' B R L2 F B2 L


Spoiler



Solution: R D F R U' R' U' F' D' F2 D R' D2 R F R F' U2 B' U' D L2 U D' (24 HTM)

Backup solution (26 HTM)
R F R U' R' //2x2x1 + pairs (5/5)
(B' U2 R') //Pseudo 2x2x3 + 2x2x1 (3/8)
U' F2 //F2L-1 (2/10)
F L' F' L //EO + 2x2x1 (3/13)
D2 L D L' //F2L (4/17)
D' R' D2 R' U' L B2 L' U R2 //LL, 1 move cancels with premoves (9/26)

Actual solution
R D F R U' R' //2x2x1 + pairs (6/6)
(B' U2 F R' F') //Pseudo 2x2x3 + pairs (5/11)
(R' D2 R) //2x2x1 (3/14)
(D' F2 D F U) //All but 3 edges (5/19)

Skeleton:
R D F R U' R' U' F' D' F2 D R' D2 R F R F' U2 B *
* = B2 U' D L2 U D' (5/24)


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## CyanSandwich (Jan 20, 2016)

30.4 ao12 - 30, 32, 32, 29, 36, 26, 33, 29, 30, 32, 32, 27
Hopefully I can roll it to sub-30.

The 27 was pretty interesting.


Spoiler



L2 R2 U2 B U2 B U2 F' L2 B' R2 D' L B' F D2 U' F2 R' D' R
i: R' D R F2 U D2 F' B L' D R2 B L2 F U2 B' U2 B' U2 R2 L2

L2 B' L F //2 squares (4/4)
B2 L' F L2 B2 //2x2x3 (5/9)
(U' F' U' F2 R2 F' R') //F2L-1 (7/16)
F' U' F U R U2 R' //2-twist (7-2/21)

sk: L2 B' L F B2 @ L' F L2 B2 F' U' * F U R U2 F R2 F2 U F U
* = U B U' F U B' U' F' (cancels 7)
@ = B R B' L' B R' B' L (cancels 3)

Solution: L2 B' L F B' R B' L' B R' B' F L2 F' B' U' F U B' R U2 F R2 F2 U F U (27)


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## TheDubDubJr (Jan 20, 2016)

I am happy about my official 26.67 mean obtained over the weekend at Keep Portland Quiet 2016.
My main goal was a 27.00 mean or lower. 8th in the World 





Spoiler: 26.67 Mean






Spoiler: Attempt 1 - 26



scramble - U2 F2 L2 B' F2 R2 U2 F' L2 D2 B' R U B U2 F2 D L2 R' B U

all on normal
D' B // 2x2x1
L2 D' L R U // EO
R2 B' R' U L' // F2L-1
D2 B' L' D2 L B // 18 to L3C

D' B L2 D' L R U R2 B' R' U L' D2 B' L' D2 L B ([0] D' F' D B D' F D B') 
 
Solution - D' B L2 D' L R U R2 B' R' U L' D2 B' L' D2 L B D' F' D B D' F D B' (26)

Found the skeleton with only about 9min left and quickly looked for insertions.
I went through once and found nothing that cancelled and went through again making sure to check within possible alternation of L R but didn't see anything again, so I settled for an 8 move comm that didn't cancel. Ended up being optimal.





Spoiler: Attempt 2 - 29



scramble - U' F2 B' U2 F L B' R' U' B R2 F2 R' B2 U2 R F2 R D2 L
inverse - L' D2 R' F2 R' U2 B2 R F2 R2 B' U R B L' F' U2 B F2 U

start on normal
R' B' L F // EO
L F2 B2 // 3x2x1
switch
U' L' D L' U2 // 2x2x3
D R2 D' R D' R' D2 R D R' D // 23 to L3C

R' B' ([2]U2 L D L' U2 L D' L') L F L F2 B2 D' R D' R' D2 R D R' D R2 D' U2 L D' L U

Solution - R' B' U2 L D L' U2 L D' F L F2 B2 D' R D' R' D2 R D R' D R2 D' U2 L D' L U (29)

The only other skeleton I found was a 17 to Good 6 corners which I also looked at insertions. Optimal for both skeletons was a 29.





Spoiler: Attempt 3 - 25



scramble - U' B2 D' U' B2 R2 D2 F2 R F R' F U' B L2 U F2 D2 U2
inverse - U2 D2 F2 U' L2 B' U F' R F' R' F2 D2 R2 B2 U D B2 U

start on inverse
D R F R // EO
B // 2x2x1
switch
R2 B' U D2 // 2x2x3
F U F U' F2 R2 F' // 16 to L4C

R2 ([4]U F2 U' B' U F2 U' B) B' U D2 F U F U' F2 R2 F' B' R' F' R' D'

R2 U F2 U' B' U F2 D2 F U F U' F2 R2 ([3]R F R' B' R F' R' B) F' B' R' F' R' D'

Solution - R2 U F2 U' B' U F2 D2 F U F U' F2 R' F R' B' R F' R' F' R' F' R' D' (25)






Glad I was able to find optimal for all skeletons even though they all were fairly easy.

Also proud that with a good FMC tonight, I was able to drop my current Ao50 to sub-27!

Generated By csTimer on 2016-1-20
solves/total: 78/80

single
best: 19.00
worst: 34.00

mean of 3 - best: 24.33 (σ = 4.62)
avg of 5 - best: 25.33 (σ = 0.58)
avg of 12 - best: 26.00 (σ = 1.49)
avg of 50 - best: 26.98 (σ = 1.69)

Average: 27.28 (σ = 1.75)
Mean: 27.15


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## JackJ (Jan 20, 2016)

TheDubDubJr said:


> I am happy about my official 26.67 mean obtained over the weekend at Keep Portland Quiet 2016.
> My main goal was a 27.00 mean or lower. 8th in the World
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, really nicely done Walker!


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## Cale S (Jan 23, 2016)

Two official 25 singles, third attempt is after MBLD 


Spoiler



Scramble: R2 D' F2 D2 R2 U' R2 U L2 U' B L' R2 B F R2 U' B R 

R F2 U' (U') // 2x2x2
(F) U' R F' R' F U L' // F2L - 1
L' (L') // shift block
(L B D B' D' L') // blocky stuff
(D L D' L' D2) // to L3C

R F2 U2 R F' R' F U L2 D2 L @ D L' D' L D B D' B' F' U 
@ = [L U L', D]

Final Solution: R F2 U2 R F' R' F U L2 D2 L2 U L' D L U' L2 D' L D B D' B' F' U (25)

You could also just insert the pair with WV after blocky stuff and get the same solution





Spoiler



Scramble:

B' F2 D2 R2 F2 L2 F' L2 B D L' R2 U' L F2 U' B' D

(B2) R2 D2 B' U // lol 2x2x3
R F R' L D L' // F2L minus corner
D2 R' (R') // F2L
(F L2 B' L' B L' F') // wide antisune to L3C

R2 D2 B' U R F R' L @ D L' D2 R' F L B' L B L2 F' R B2
@ = [R U2 R', D]

Final solution: R2 D2 B' U R F L U2 R' D R U2 R' L' D2 R' F L B' L B L2 F' R B2 (25)


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## TheCoolMinxer (Jan 23, 2016)

Cale S said:


> Two official 25 singles, third attempt is after MBLD
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Gogogo for WR; you can do it! And NAR in mbld pls :^) Gl


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## Cale S (Jan 23, 2016)

TheCoolMinxer said:


> Gogogo for WR; you can do it! And NAR in mbld pls :^) Gl



Thanks, I'll try

and I almost got NAR in MBLD, 21/23 in 50:44


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## RhysC (Jan 25, 2016)

Found a really easy start on a scramble, anyone mind to finish?

Scramble: L2 D2 B2 L2 D L2 D' L2 D2 F2 U' B' U F R2 B' D' F2 R B' R2, Inverse is on ()

R F U’ F2 (2x2)
(D2 B2 D2 L2) (2x2x3)

EDIT: Whoops, just realised something in here is wrong. I'll try to fix it.


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## Cale S (Jan 26, 2016)

interesting 23 with 2 edge insertions

Scramble: F2 D2 L2 F2 D L2 U B2 L2 R2 D2 L' R2 F' U2 L2 R U' R' F U

& B F' D R' D2 // 2x2x2
U' F @ R2 // pseudo 2x2x3
U R' F' R U2 R // to L5E

& = [E', B2]
@ = [F' U F, M2]

Final solution: U' D L2 U D' B' F' D R' D2 F R2 L2 B' D' B L2 U R' F' R U2 R (23)

solution is 19 in ATM


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## CyanSandwich (Jan 26, 2016)

Tied my PB. Just a lucky end to the skeleton.

L B2 F2 L U2 B2 R' D2 F2 U2 R B D2 F R' B D R' B2 D' R'
i: R D B2 R D' B' R F' D2 B' R' U2 F2 D2 R B2 U2 L' F2 B2 L'

(F L R2 F' B R2) //2x2x2
(L B' L2) //2x2x3
(D' R' B2 R D') //F2L-1
(R D' R' D) //3C (18)

sk: D' R D R' D R' B2 R D L2 B L' R2 B' ^ F R2 L' F'

^ D' F U2 F' D F U2 F'

solution: D' R D R' D R' B2 R D L2 B L' R2 B' D' F U2 F' D F U2 R2 L' F' (24)

Also landed me a PB mo3 (29.00) and ao5 (29.67)
32, 27, *30, 33, 24*


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## Cale S (Jan 31, 2016)

from the past 25 weeks of the weekly FMC:

22, 28, 28, 27, 26, 23, 24, 27, 24, 23, 23, 26, 26, 26, 26, 28, 28, 24, 25, 25, 29, 24, 24, 25, 27

25.52 avg25


and since I haven't posted it yet, here's the 30 from my 26.67 official mean last weekend:


Spoiler



scramble: B2 L2 U2 B2 D B2 U2 R D2 U B2 R' B F' L D2 F' U R

B2 // form pair
L2 B D' B2 // 2x2x2
F2 L2 D' L' D L' F' L // F2L - 1
(D2 B D' B') // insert edge
(D' F' R' B R' B' R2 F) // to L3C

skeleton:
B2 L2 B D' B2 F2 L2 D' L' D L' F' L F' R2 B R B' R F D @ B D B' D2
@ = [D', F U' F']

Final solution: B2 L2 B D' B2 F2 L2 D' L' D L' F' L F' R2 B R B' R F2 U' F' D F U F' B D B' D2 (30)


after trying it again now, I quickly saw that I could have done D2 B D' R D' R' B' after the F2L - 1 for L5C, and IF gives a 29. I'm fairly sure this is what Mark did on this scramble, since he told me he had a 20 to L5C and got a 29.


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## Mollerz (Feb 1, 2016)

So I had a bit of a nightmare at Manchester Open 2016. The scramble was excellent but the skeleton I found was only discovered in the last 8 minutes. The A9 commutator at the end cancelled 2 moves leaving me with a 31, which I wrote down incorrectly in the last 30 seconds, getting a DNF. Later in the evening we looked back on solutions together and optimal cancellation was 3 moves which would have resulted in a 29.

Scramble: F2 L2 B2 F2 R U2 L2 B2 R F' R' F2 D2 U' B2 L' R B' R' B

L' D R2 * U // 2x2x2
D2 B2 D2 R2 // 2x2x3
(R D' B D B') // F2L-1 (And two lucky pairs)
(D B R' B2 D B R F D' F' D') // 3C (24)

* R D' R' U R D R' U' // Insertion cancelling 3 moves.

Final solution: L' D R' D' R' U R D R' D2 B2 D2 R2 D F D F' R' B' D' B2 R B' D' B D' B' D R'

So this block building to 3C was pretty weird, was testing hedges and sledges and making pairs. The solution is actually just a hedge, then making a square, which cancels 4 moves. I must have seen the point up until F2L-1 like 100 times over the hour, it was extremely frustrating.


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## CyanSandwich (Feb 2, 2016)

Got my first 25. Although I've had two 24's and two 26's 



Spoiler



L2 B2 R2 D2 U B2 D' U2 R2 D2 L B' D' U2 F U L2 F2 R' U2
i: U2 R F2 L2 U' F' U2 D B L' D2 R2 U2 D B2 U' D2 R2 B2 L2

(L' B) //Pseudo 2x2x2
D //Fix
R U' F2 U2 F' //Pseudo 2x2x3
(F) //Fix
(B U B' U' R) //F2L-1
(F R U R' U' F' U2) //3C (20)

sk: D R U' F2 U2 F' U2 F U R U' (*) R' F' R' U B U' B2 F' L

* U' L2 U R' U' L2 U R (Cancels 3)

Solution: D R U' F2 U2 F' U2 F U R U2 L2 U R' U' L2 U F' R' U B U' B2 F' L (25)



Also
27, 31, 32, 33, 29, 37, 29, 26, 28, DNF, 28, 25 = 30.00  (Plenty of chances to roll it though)


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## Sam N (Feb 3, 2016)

RhysC said:


> Found a really easy start on a scramble, anyone mind to finish?
> 
> Scramble: L2 D2 B2 L2 D L2 D' L2 D2 F2 U' B' U F R2 B' D' F2 R B' R2, Inverse is on ()
> 
> ...



You have a lot to work with. Here is just some stuff I threw together that might help you come up with some ideas.

Scramble: L2 D2 B2 L2 D L2 D' L2 D2 F2 U' B' U F R2 B' D' F2 R B' R2

PREMOVE F'

then do a R

INVERSE: R2 B R' F2 D B R2 F' U' B U F2 D2 L2 D L2 D' L2 B2 D2 L2 

(R') R2 B R' F2 D B R2 F' U' B U F2 D2 L2 D L2 D' L2 B2 D2 L2 

F L' B' L B' U2 

L' U D' B D U'L'

I'm Pretty sure I hit a dead end here, but a one move psuedo 2x2 is really lucky and something you should be able to work with 90% of the time.


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## CyanSandwich (Feb 5, 2016)

D2 U2 B L2 U2 B2 D2 F L2 R2 D' L B D' B U F D F' R'

Does anyone wanna try this scramble? It seemed utterly **** to me. I had 27 moves to L5C but DNF'd.


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## Cale S (Feb 5, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> D2 U2 B L2 U2 B2 D2 F L2 R2 D' L B D' B U F D F' R'
> 
> Does anyone wanna try this scramble? It seemed utterly **** to me. I had 27 moves to L5C but DNF'd.



(U D2 B2 L D2 L') // 2x2x2
(D R B2) B // 2x2x3
(B R B' D F D' F') // 2 squares
R D B' D' B // to L4C

skeleton: @ B R D B' D' F B D # F' D' B R' B R' D' L D2 L' B2 D2 U'
# = [D' B' D, F] 
@ = [L', B R2 B'] 

Final solution: L' B R2 B' L B R' D B' D' F D F D' B D F2 D' B R' B R' D' L D2 L' B2 D2 U' (29)


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## not_kevin (Feb 5, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> D2 U2 B L2 U2 B2 D2 F L2 R2 D' L B D' B U F D F' R'
> 
> Does anyone wanna try this scramble? It seemed utterly **** to me. I had 27 moves to L5C but DNF'd.



lel first attempt 23 to 3c with a very very bad solution 

on inverse:
L B' U2 R' // eo [4/4]
F D' F U' // x-cross [4/8]
D2 B D' B2 D' B // f2l 2 [6/14]
D' F' D F D F' D F D' // ab3c [9/23]

IF says optimal 30, 'tho


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## CyanSandwich (Feb 5, 2016)

Cale S said:


> (U D2 B2 L D2 L') // 2x2x2
> (D R B2) B // 2x2x3
> (B R B' D F D' F') // 2 squares
> R D B' D' B // to L4C
> ...


Damn, I went for the same 2x2x2 as you but it was (D' L2 U D' F2 R F2) 
I didn't even consider solving the "cross edges" before matching up the pair. I definitely would've seen the 2x2x3, maybe the rest.



not_kevin said:


> lel first attempt 23 to 3c with a very very bad solution
> 
> on inverse:
> L B' U2 R' // eo [4/4]
> ...


I gotta try starting with EO some time. Although I doubt I would have seen the x-cross (or tried to make one). Still something to consider doing.
That's a nice skeleton for a first attempt, but I guess it just had a really lucky ending


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## Keroma12 (Feb 7, 2016)

PB: 31
Weekly Competition

Scramble: D' B2 D2 U B2 R2 D2 B2 L2 U B2 R' U' B' U2 F R B L F2 U2



Spoiler: Solution



The first part is a modification of the cross L B' R' F' U'

Cross + 3 F2L edges: L F' D2 F (1) B' R' (2) F' U' (8/8)
Rest of edges: D F L' F' (3) L D2 (6/14)
This leaves 7 corners unsolved.

Solve 2 corners at (1): F' D F U' F' D' F U (cancel 3)
Solve 2 corners at (2): R2 F L' F' R2 F L F' (cancel 2)
Solve 3 corners at (3): F D B' D' F' D B D' (cancel 2)

Solution: L F' D' F U' F' D' F U B' R F L' F' R2 F L F2 U' D F L' D B' D' F' D B D' L D2 (31)

Tried to extend that white cross to an x-cross, but couldn't get the corners to work, so just went with the edges, and it worked out well.
Spent about 45 minutes doing the insertions; optimal would have been 28.
Do people ever really go with 7 corners? If so, do they expect to find the optimal insertions?


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## zhainan (Feb 12, 2016)

I'm new to FMC. Today I began to try use corner-cycle in my solution
THE Scramble: L' B2 L' B2 L' D2 B2 U2 B2 F2 L U L' U' B F' U' L' F D'

And my solution:


Spoiler



NISS
R
NISS
D L' B F R D' R' U2 // 223
NISS
L F L' F' D B' L B // TEC
L' D L B D2 B' // l5c

Howerver, It's diffcult for me to insert. So just got DNF(or 39f without inserting, it's my first time to sub 40 without lucky case).
I can't recognize the corner to cycle when I review the solution, and always make wrong.



And my solution seems to be too long before inserting,What's the better choice?


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## Alex Insolito (Feb 12, 2016)

Hi guys, on this week's FMC competition scramble i found a nice 19 move skeleton but unfotunately I dind't know how to continue, somebody mind cheking out please??
Scramble: (Premove: F2 ) U' R2 B2 D' R2 D2 L2 D' L2 D' F' R' B L' D2 U B2 L2 F U' 

Skeleton:L F R' B//Edge orientation
L D' L B2 L' B2 R' B2 R U' R' U' L' U' L// 3 corners and 2 edges


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## penguinz7 (Feb 12, 2016)

I've been trying to do some NISS, but I realized I don't know what I'm doing..

F2 D2 L' F2 U2 L2 F2 U2 R2 F2 L B F2 D' F' L' R' U B R2 D'

This is what I've done so far.
(F D' L D2 U' L) //2x2
R D // Pseudo F2L-2

At this point I would like to switch back to inverse, but then the 2x2x1 square I just made ends up a D2 away. I'm guessing I have to insert a D2 premove somewhere, but I can't figure out where to put it. Can someone explain to me how I can keep that block when I switch?


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## Brest (Feb 12, 2016)

penguinz7 said:


> R D // Pseudo F2L-2



You made a pseudo block.
If you continue without switching you will need to add a D2 premove.
If you switch back you will see that D2 creates the block.

Premoves on the scramble are moves on the inverse, and vice versa.


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## penguinz7 (Feb 12, 2016)

Brest said:


> You made a pseudo block.
> If you continue without switching you will need to add a D2 premove.
> If you switch back you will see that D2 creates the block.
> 
> Premoves on the scramble are moves on the inverse, and vice versa.



ahh so that's where the premove goes. That makes sense now that I think about it. Thanks!


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## CyanSandwich (Feb 13, 2016)

Got a new PB of 23. It had a free insertion lol.



Spoiler



D2 F2 D2 U2 L2 U2 B2 F D2 F' U F2 U' F R D L' D U L'
i: L U' D' L D' R' F' U F2 U' F D2 F' B2 U2 L2 U2 D2 F2 D2

Tried this seemingly better skeleton first.

(B' L R' B2 U') //Pseudo 2x2x3
(D2 F L2 F') //Pseudo F2L-1
B2 L' B //F2L-1 + orient 2 edges
D2 B' L B L' D L' D' L D //3C (22)


This was my backup skeleton.

(B' L R' B2 U') B' //2x2x3 (6/6)
L' F L' F' //F2L-1 (10/10)
B' L B L' D L' D L //ab4C (8/18)

sk: B' L' F L' F' B' L (^) B L' D L' D L U ($) B2 R L' B

^ = L' F L B L' F' L B' (Cancels 8 SON)
$ = U F' U' B2 U F U' B2 (Cancels 3)

solution: B' L' F L' B' L B L' F' D L' D L U2 F' U' B2 U F U' R L' B (23)


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## Cale S (Feb 13, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> Got a new PB of 23. It had a free insertion lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



you can also do VLS on inverse: (L' D' L D' F L B' L' B F')

to get to the 3-corner skeleton directly


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## CyanSandwich (Feb 14, 2016)

Cale S said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh cool. I don't know any VLS, but I'll add "adding a random single move before sledges and the like" to my repertoire.


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## Cale S (Feb 14, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> Oh cool. I don't know any VLS, but I'll add "adding a random single move before sledges and the like" to my repertoire.



yeah, those can be useful sometimes because they're basically like inserting a 10 move corner comm that cancels 8 or more (such as doing L' U R U' R' L to insert a pair instead of U R U' R'), which you probably wouldn't see when doing insertions


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## Cale S (Feb 14, 2016)

23 single on the ongoing Weekly FMC


Spoiler



R L' U D L2 B R' D F2 L' B' U' D2 R' L F B2 D2 R' L


U F' // square
B' R' D // 2x2x2 + pairs
(B L' B) B2 U' L' // F2L minus edge
(B' R B R' U' R B' R' B U2) // to L3C

skeleton: U B' F' R' D @ B2 U' L' U2 B' R B R' U R B' R' L B'
@ = [U' F' U, B2]

Final solution: U B' F' R' D U' F' U B2 U' F L' U2 B' R B R' U R B' R' L B' (23)


this rolls my avg25 to 25.43


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## Hssandwich (Feb 15, 2016)

Any improvements on this? I couldn't find any good 2x2x2s on the normal and only found a 6 on the inverse, but from there, I couldn't find a good continuation, so I decided to CFOP it and do an insertion for 3 corners at the end, which cancelled 4.

U2 F2 L2 U' F2 D R2 U L2 D' U' B U B2 U L U F2 L' F R

R’ F U’ L B// (5/5) Cross
U B2 U @ B’ F U’ F’// (7/12)F2L-2
U’ R’ U2 R U2 B U’ B’// (8/20)F2L-1
U F’ U F * U2 F’ U F U// (9/29) To L3C

WGR->RWB->WGO
@ D F’ U2 F D’ F’ U2 F (cancels 1)
*F D F’ U2 F D’ F’ U2 (cancels 4)

R’ F U’ L B U B2 U B’ F U’ F’ U’ R’ U2 R U2 B U’ B’ U F’ U F2 D F’ U2 F D’ F2 U F U (33)


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## AlphaSheep (Feb 16, 2016)

This weekend was my first official FMC attempt. I got a 32 move single, and a 38.67 mean. I was more or less happy with the first two attempts, but the last attempt went pretty badly. I have a couple of questions regarding how I can improve.

1. Scramble: D' U2 R2 U2 L2 R2 B2 F U2 F2 R2 B2 R'D L' F' R U2 R


Spoiler



D' L' B // Edge orientation
R2 D // Make a red-blue-yellow square
U2 // Line
R2 D L D' R' // Insert red-yellow-green pair
L D' L' D L' // Make orange-green-white square
D L' (*) D2 L // Solve red-blue-white pair and yellow-green edge
D L' D' L R2 // Solve all remaining edges

Insert at (*) L' B2 L F L' B2 L F' and cancel 1 move.

Solution: D' L' B R2 D U2 R2 D L D' R' L D' L' D L' D L2 B2 L F L' B2 L F' D2 L D L' D' L R2 (32 moves)

I'm disappointed that insertion finder says I missed a couple of 2 move cancellations in my rush.


2. Scramble: D' F' L' B' U' D R F' R' U2 B' L2 U' B2 D' F2 R2 U L2 U2


Spoiler



On the inverse:
R' U B' U2 L' D // Orange-blue-white square
R' U' L // 2x2x2 block
D R' D' // Red-blue-yellow square
D R' F R' D R2 D2 // Insert red-blue-white pair

On normal:
L' F2 L // F2L missing one pair
L D L' // Edge orientation
D2 F' D F D // Solve all edges

Skeleton: L' F2 L2 D L' D2 F' D F D' R2 (+) D' R F' R2 D' L' U R D' L U2 B U' R (*)

Insert at (*) R' U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2, and cancel 3 moves.
Insert at (+) D' L U2 L' D L U2 L'

That leads to the 38 move solution: L' F2 L2 D L' D2 F' D F D' R2 D' L U2 L' D L U2 L' D' R F' R2 D' L' U R D' L U2 B U R D2 R' U2 R D2


I started from the end and moved backward while looking for insertions... But I was running out of time, so I stopped halfway through. Because of this, I missed several 2 move cancellations near the beginning. Does anyone else start from the end? What's a good procedure for looking for insertions?

3. Scramble: D2 B2 D2 L' F2 D2 L2 U2 R2 F' L' U2 L' D B L2 R B F


Spoiler



I couldn't see anything on this scramble. I really didn't know where to begin. I just went for the start I would use in a speedsolve.

On inverse:
B U2 D' L F R2 L U // EOLine
U' F2 D2 U // Red-yellow-green square (Add premove of R2)
R D2 R D' R' D' R // Red-yellow-blue pair

On normal 
R2 // Premove from inverse
L2 D L' D L' // F2L missing one pair
D L' D L // Phasing edges
D L' D L D' // Solve edges

That left a 32 move skeleton with 5 unsolved corners. (Bad, even for me, but I was tired and lazy at this point):
R2 L2 D L' D L' D L' D L D L' D L D' R' D R D R' D2 R' U' D2 F2 L' R2 F' L' D U2 B'

I was really tired at this point and I only needed 54 moves or less for the AfR mean, so I didn't even try find insertions. I just tried a few commutators on the end .

B D2 B' U2 B D2 B' U2 cancels 3 moves if I swap the D and U2 at the end of my skeleton.
R (U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2 R') R'. I didn't even notice the R' R' at the end until I wrote it onto the score card.

The final solution was 46 moves: R2 L2 D L' D L' D L' D L D L' D L D' R' D R D R' D2 R' U' D2 F2 L' R2 F' L' U2 D' B' U2 B D2 B' U2 R U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2 R2



What's a good approach when it's 15 minutes into the attempt and you've seen absolutely nothing good? I looked for several blocks on both the normal and inverse, but since I was tired, and my block building isn't that great at the best of times, I saw nothing. I even tried EO from 3 different orientations...


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## Hssandwich (Feb 16, 2016)

My solution (34) for the ongoing weekly FMC:



Spoiler



scramble: U R' L' D F2 D' R2 D' L' F' U' F2 U2 F2 R2 B2 U' F2 B2

D2 U’ L F’ R’//XCross (5/5)
L F’ L’ F //F2L-2 (4/9)
L U’ L’ F’ L’ B2 L F//Switch to green and XXXcross (8/17)
B’ R B’ R’//Tripod block (4/21)
B’ U’ B’ U B’ R B R’ U R’ U’ R B// Finish (13/34)


Found this in about 15 minutes, so I am quite happy about it.


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## CyanSandwich (Feb 16, 2016)

I got another 23 with another 18 move 4C skeleton with ridiculous insertions.



Spoiler



U' F2 D' L' F' R2 F2 U F R U2 F2 U2 B2 L F2 R' F2 D2 L'
i: L D2 F2 R F2 L' B2 U2 F2 U2 R' F' U' F2 R2 F L D F2 U

U2 D B' (D) //2x2x2
(U') R' F' R (F2) //2x2x3
L B L B' (L2) //F2L-1
(F U F' U2) //4C (18)

sk: U2 D B' * R' F' R L B L @ B' U2 F U' F' L2 F2 U D'

* B' R' F' R B R' F R (cancels 7)
@ D' B' U2 B D B' U2 B (cancels 4)

solution: U2 D B2 R' F' R B L B L D' B' U2 B D B' F U' F' L2 F2 U D' (23)


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## penguinz7 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hssandwich said:


> My solution (34) for the ongoing weekly FMC:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FTFY. I'm not sure where you got that D2 from, but it definitely does not belong.


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## Rmagic (Feb 17, 2016)

*Fewest moves for this?*

Hi, wanted to know a "realistic solve" (cross+f2l+algs) with the fewest moves for this scramble


Position for scramble white top, green front:
R, F, R', U2, B2, F', R2, U, F, L, D, L, D', L2, B', F, U2, D2, L, D, R, U', B2, U2, F2, R, U, R, U2, D, B', R' 

thank you!


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## Hssandwich (Feb 17, 2016)

penguinz7 said:


> FTFY. I'm not sure where you got that D2 from, but it definitely does not belong.



Thanks, whoops  I have no idea where it came from either


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## irontwig (Feb 18, 2016)

AlphaSheep said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You don't have to do EO completely on the normal or inverse. If you look you can see that 3/4 blue edges are bad, which means B(') might be a good premove. B' might be better:

Premove: B'
D B [EO+square+pairs]

Switch to the inverse:
B [EO+that stuff]
F2 R B2 U L' U [F2L-1]
L U' L U L2 R2 [L5C]

Too lazy for insertions.


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## DuffyEdge (Feb 19, 2016)

Practicing for FMC Europe and got my very first sub 30! 



Spoiler



Scramble - F2 D2 F R2 U2 L2 B' D2 B F R2 U' F2 L U F2 D' B D' F' L2
Inverse:  B D B' // 2x2x2 block 
R2 F' B R' B' // pseudo 2x2x3 block
 Premove - D'
 D R2 D' R F2 U F U' F' // all but L4C
 F U F' D' F U' F' D // 3 cycle (cancels 6 moves)
Skeleton: B D B' R2 (@) F' B R' B' D R2 D' R F2 U D' F U' F' D (19)
(@) = U F U’ B2 U F’ U’ B2
Solution: F U F' D U' F2 R’ D R2 D' B R B' F B2 U F U’ B2 U F’ U’ R2 B D' B’ (26)



I got lucky with my first 3 cycle because it was right at the end but couldn’t find anything good for my final insertion, so I just +8’ed it. How do you practice finding good insertions quickly? And how often do the pros reach optimal move efficiency for insertions? I am really bad at it….


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## ottozing (Feb 20, 2016)

DuffyEdge said:


> Practicing for FMC Europe and got my very first sub 30!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You actually cancelled one move with your insertion but didn't realize it 

anyway, aside from just practice and knowing what to look for, you should consider writing your skeleton to the normal scramble to make things easier. Other than that, assuming you know NISS you should be fine.


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## DuffyEdge (Feb 20, 2016)

ottozing said:


> You actually cancelled one move with your insertion but didn't realize it
> 
> anyway, aside from just practice and knowing what to look for, you should consider writing your skeleton to the normal scramble to make things easier. Other than that, assuming you know NISS you should be fine.



Thanks for the advice, I guess it is just practice  I'll do that in my attempt today


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## xyzzy (Feb 21, 2016)

Snagged the NR on my first official FMC at Singapore Open 2016! I didn't bother with skeletons at all because I'm not good at finding insertions under time pressure, so these are all bog standard NISS/Petrus solves.

Scramble #1: R B2 L' D2 L' B2 F2 L2 B2 R2 D' B2 R B' L R' B U' R2 B'


Spoiler



inverse:
B' L B F2 U' B // 2x2x2 and pair (6/6)
B D' B' R F' R' F // 2x2x3 (6/12)
D L2 D L2 D2 L // square (6/18)
F L' F' L // F2L (4/22)
F' D' R' D R F // CPEOLL (6/28)
R D2 R2 D' R2 D' R2 D2 R // 2GLL (9/37)

final solution (37):
R' D2 R2 D R2 D R2 D2 R' F' R' D' R D F L' F L F' L' D2 L2 D' L2 D' F' R F R' B D B2 U F2 B' L' B

Optimal for the LL is antisune+fruruf with one move cancelled (13f instead of 15f); I wonder why I didn't find that.



Scramble #2: B' D F' U L2 D2 F2 B' L' F2 U2 B2 D B2 D R2 L2 D' R2


Spoiler



U2 L2 F U2 // 2x2x2 (4/4)
inverse:
B L2 D' L B2 D' B' // 2x2x3 + EO (7/11)
normal:
D L2 D' L D2 // square (5/16)
L' U' F2 L' F2 L F2 U // F2L (8/24)
B' L' B L' F L' B' L F' L2 B L // ZBLL (12/36)

final solution (36):
U2 L2 F U2 D L2 D' L D2 L' U' F2 L' F2 L F2 U B' L' B L' F L' B' L F' L2 B L B D B2 L' D L2 B'

Had the standard Sune diag-swap COLL here. There's also this shorter finish (lol didn't notice CP was already solved):

F L2 F' L' F L' F' L2 // corners (8/24)
D L S L2 S' L D' // edges (9/33)



Scramble #3: L D' L' B' D' L2 U2 F' U' B U2 B2 L2 B2 U' L2 B2 U' B2 U


Spoiler



R2 U' F' D B' // 2x2x2 (5/5)
F' L U' F' // 2x2x3 + EO (4/9)
inverse:
U L U2 L U2 L U2 L // square (8/17)
normal:
U2 L' U2 L // F2L (4/21)
B R' D2 R B' U2 B R' D2 R B' // corner twist (11/32)

final solution (32):
R2 U' F' D B' F' L U' F' U2 L' U2 L B R' D2 R B' U2 B R' D2 R B' L' U2 L' U2 L' U2 L' U'

InsertionFinder makes a 29-move solution out of this, whelp.


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## guysensei1 (Feb 21, 2016)

xyzzy said:


> Snagged the NR on my first official FMC at Singapore Open 2016! I didn't bother with skeletons at all because I'm not good at finding insertions under time pressure, so these are all bog standard NISS/Petrus solves.



Good job, that NR was just waiting to be broken, nice to see that it's something actually challenging now


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## Bubtore (Feb 22, 2016)

My first try inserting a 2E3C !

Scramble // R F R2 D2 B' U2 B U2 F2 D2 F' R2 D' F D B L' F' L B2 D'
Inverse // D B2 L' F L B' D' F' D R2 F D2 F2 U2 B' U2 B D2 R2 F' R'

(F' D' F' R') // 222
U2 L' U L B L // 223 + EO
(B U' B2 U B2 U B U2) // 2E3C

Skeleton // U2 L' U L B L U2 B' * U' B2 U' B2 U B' R F D F - 18
* B2 L F R' U2 R F' L2 B L

Solution // U2 L' U L B L U2 B L F R' U2 R F' L2 B L U' B2 U' B2 U B' R F D F - 27 Moves


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## andersonaap (Feb 23, 2016)

Hi everybody.

I want some general help for improvement. I would like to be more constant around 30-33.
The most my skeletons are AB5C around 23up moves.
1) tips for learn/improve/practing blockbuilding.
2) tips for learn/improve permutation of last edges to force AB3C.
3) how do you study another cuber solves?
4) I am 'adicted' with EO first aproach. any tip for identify when EO will be bad in a scramble.
5) after petrus/heise/zz/cfop/roux, which method would be good for learning some useful (at least concept/mindset) in a real solution ?
or just foucs on the previous one?


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## RhysC (Feb 23, 2016)

andersonaap said:


> Hi everybody.
> 
> I want some general help for improvement. I would like to be more constant around 30-33.
> The most my skeletons are AB5C around 23up moves.
> ...



1) You can access a blockbuilding trainer here: http://cubegrass.appspot.com/block_trainer/
2) Just spam different ways to finish your f2l-1 until you get one. 99% of the time it's possible if you try. Also remember that have more than 3 corners is perfectly ok, as long as you are decent at insertions.
3) Pick up the cube, scramble with their scramble and do their moves. See what they are doing. Note some might use interesting notation such as () for NISS.
4) It's pretty obvious, you should just do a block first if it's easier. Only do EO if you can't get a 2x2x2 in <6 moves.
5) Honestly, your solution shouldn't be method-based. If you're going to do one however, stick with Heise.


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## Bubtore (Feb 24, 2016)

S // R F' R2 B2 D2 B' D2 F U2 R2 D2 U' F2 U L' D2 B' D' F2 L'
I // L F2 D B D2 L U' F2 U D2 R2 U2 F' D2 B D2 B2 R2 F R'

R B D' F //123
(L2 U' L2 U2 L D') // 4E4C

Skeleton // R B # D' * F D L' U2 L2 U L2
* F' L2 B L2 F
# L D' R D L' D' . R' D
. B R' F R B' R' F' R

Solution // R B L D' R D L' D' B R' F R B' R' F2 L2 B L2 F2 D L' U2 L2 U L2 - 25 Moves


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## DuffyEdge (Feb 25, 2016)

Great start but I still suck at insertions:

Scramble - B2 R2 D2 F2 R2 F2 L2 U' B2 R2 B2 F' L2 B' R U L' F D2 L2 B2


Spoiler



(F’ U R’ B’ L U’) // XX-cross
B L’ B L D’ B D // F2L-1
B U B U’ L’ B L B’ // AB4C

Skeleton - (*) B L’ B L D’ B D B U B U’ L’ B L B’ U L’ B R U’ (**) F
(*) = L B R B’ L’ B R’ B’
(**) = L F’ R’ F L’ F’ R F

Solution - L B R B’ L’ B R’ L’ B L D’ B D B U B U’ L’ B L B’ U L’ B R U’ L F’ R’ F L’ F’ R F2 (34)



EDIT: Another thing, whenever I check afterwards on Insertion Finder, it changes all prime moves to non-prime. I can use it but I have to change all U' moves (say) to U2 U etc. in both my Scramble and Skeleton. Does anyone else have this problem? Apparently optimal was 30, so I'm far off


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## irontwig (Feb 25, 2016)

DuffyEdge said:


> Great start but I still suck at insertions:
> 
> Scramble - B2 R2 D2 F2 R2 F2 L2 U' B2 R2 B2 F' L2 B' R U L' F D2 L2 B2
> 
> ...



Use ', not ’.


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## DuffyEdge (Feb 25, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Use ', not ’.



Ahh okay, thank you


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## Bubtore (Feb 25, 2016)

DuffyEdge said:


> Great start but I still suck at insertions:
> 
> Scramble - B2 R2 D2 F2 R2 F2 L2 U' B2 R2 B2 F' L2 B' R U L' F D2 L2 B2
> 
> ...



Nice start ! However, you should have switched 1 move earlier which leads to a good skeleton.
(you can see that you have a pseudo XXcross after 5 moves, so you know that you can finish it after the switch)



Spoiler



(F’ U R’ B’ L) // Pseudo XX-cross
U B R B' R' // F2L-1
B2 L B L' B2 // L5C

Skeleton // U B # R * B' R' B2 L B L' B2 L' B R U' F - 15
* R B' L' B R' B' L B
# B R' F2 R B' R' F2 R



Solution // U B2 R' F2 R B' R' F2 R' B' L' B R' B' L R' B2 L B L' B2 L' B R U' F - 26 Moves

edit : actually it's even better to start inserting before the F2L-1 :



Spoiler



(F’ U R’ B’ L) // Pseudo XX-cross
U B // 3E6C

Skeleton // U B L' B R * U' + F - 7
* D' B2 D U' L2 U
+ U B U' F2 U @ B' U' F2 
@ U2 F' D' F U2 F' D F



Solution // U B L' B R D' B2 D U' L2 U B U' F2 U' F' D' F U2 F' D F B' U' F' - 25

IF gives 23 as optimal solution after the first insertion is done, however the second insert (first for solving corners) wouldn't cancel any moves, so it's not very human :


Spoiler



U B L' B R D' B2 D [@1] U' L2 F
Insert at @1: R F2 R' B' R F2 R' B
After the 1st insertion: U B L' B R D' B2 D R F2 [@2] R' B' R F2 R' B U' L2 F
Insert at @2: F2 R B2 R' F2 R B2 R'
Fewest moves: 23. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: U B L' B R D' B2 D R2 B2 R' F2 R B2 R2 B' R F2 R' B U' L2 F



edit 2: by changing a bit the edge commutator the corners insertions get much better 


Spoiler



Skeleton // U B L' B R * U' F - 7
* B2 U' D + L2 U D'
+ D' L D # R' D' L' D R
# D' R' U R D R' U' R


Solution // U B L' B R B2 U' L R' U R D R' U' D' L' D R L2 D' F - 21 Moves


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## DuffyEdge (Feb 26, 2016)

This is the first time that I've managed to find an optimal insertion.

Scramble - B2 L D2 R’ F2 R’ F2 R’ U2 L2 B2 U’ L D’ F D2 R’ U B’


Spoiler



(U) L’ U (R’ D L2 U L’) // 2x2x3 block
B U R U’ // F2L-1
R B R B’ R B R’ B’ // F2L 
U F R F’ R’ U’ R2 // AB3C

Skeleton - L’ U B U R U’ R B R B’ R B R’ B’ U F R (*) F’ R’ U’ R2 L U’ L2 D’ R U’
(*) = R2 F L F’ R2 F L’ F’

Solution - L’ U B U R U’ R B R B’ R B R’ B’ U F R’ F L F’ R2 F L’ F2 R’ U’ R2 L U’ L2 D’ R U’ (33)


Previous 5 attempts have all been sub 35


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## RhysC (Feb 27, 2016)

My first actually decent FMC attempt

R L U L F D R L' B' R' U2 R U2 R' D2 F2 B2 L2 F2 B2



Spoiler



Inverse: B2 F2 L2 B2 F2 D2 R U2 R’ U2 R B L R’ D’ F’ L’ U’ L’ R’
(B L’ U’ L’ F D’) 2x2x2 (6/36)
(F’ R U’ R F2 R F’) 2x2x3 +EO (7/36)
(U F2 U’ L’ U2 L) F2L-1 (6/36)	
(U2 R U R’ U R U’ R’) F2L (8/36)
( F R’ F’ Rw U R U’ Rw’ U’) LL (9/36)

Final solution: U Rw U R’ U’ Rw’ F R F’ R U R’ U’ R U’ R’ U2 L’ U2 L U F2 U’ F R’ F2 R’ U R’ F D F’ L U L B’



Couldn't find an insertion in time, someone want to find one for me?


----------



## Kit Clement (Feb 27, 2016)

RhysC said:


> My first actually decent FMC attempt
> 
> R L U L F D R L' B' R' U2 R U2 R' D2 F2 B2 L2 F2 B2
> 
> ...



Insertion finder can: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/473247fd4429d1e6fb760064ae2c6bf0.cube


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## RhysC (Feb 29, 2016)

Kit Clement said:


> Insertion finder can: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/473247fd4429d1e6fb760064ae2c6bf0.cube



It isn't working???


Don't tell me that skeleton ain't working.


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## irontwig (Feb 29, 2016)

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...e-FMC-thread&p=1154152&viewfull=1#post1154152


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## RhysC (Mar 1, 2016)

irontwig said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...e-FMC-thread&p=1154152&viewfull=1#post1154152



Cheers. Bit of an odd issue eh?


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## irontwig (Mar 1, 2016)

RhysC said:


> Cheers. Bit of an odd issue eh?



That you've grown up with the Internet, but can't use a keyboard?


----------



## guysensei1 (Mar 1, 2016)

irontwig said:


> That you've grown up with the Internet, but can't use a keyboard?



What's the 'wrong apostrophe' used for?


----------



## RhysC (Mar 1, 2016)

irontwig said:


> That you've grown up with the Internet, but can't use a keyboard?



Lolwut, it's MS Word's problem, not mine 

''''''''
^
|
Thar you go


----------



## porkynator (Mar 1, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> What's the 'wrong apostrophe' used for?



I had the same problem with wordpress, it turned ' into ’ automatically, apparently just because it looks better.


----------



## Cale S (Mar 2, 2016)

kind of cool thing I did for current Weekly FMC


Spoiler



U R U // square
(F2 R F D' L2) // xcross + 2 free pairs
(R D' R' F' D F) // F2L - 1
(B D2 B') F' R' D' R D F // to L3C

skeleton: U R @ U F' R' D' R D F B D2 B' F' D' F R D R' L2 D F' R' F2
@ = [R' U2 R, D2]
U' R D2 R' U2 R D2 U F' R' D' R D F B D2 B' F' D' F R D R' L2 D F' R' F2 

but w8 m8 there's a B D2 B' F' D' F which is the same as F' D F B D2 B', so we can replace it and cancel 3 moves

Final solution: U' R D2 R' U2 R D2 U F' R' D' R D2 F B D2 B' R D R' L2 D F' R' F2 (25)


 rolls my avg25 to 25.33


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## coldsun0630 (Mar 2, 2016)

16 HTM from Korean cube community. (Jeong Jae-hyun)

Scramble: F2 R2 L2 B' L B2 L F2 U R2 B2 L2 B' R2 F' R2 B2 R2 U2 R 
Solution: R U' B D F2 B' U' B U2 L' U L U F U2 D (16)


Spoiler



(Normal) 122: R (1/1)
(Inverse) insertion: D' (1/2)
(Normal) 2x2x2: U' D F2 (3/5)
(Inverse) 2x2x2: F' (1/6)
(Normal) 2x2x3+cross: D' B D (3/9)
(Inverse) 1x2x2+pair: F U2 F' U' L' U' L (5/14)
(Inverse) AB3C: U2 B' U B (4/18)

Skeleton: R U' D [1] F2 D' B D B' U' B U2 L' U L U F U2 D
[1]: D' B D F2 D' B' D F2 (-2/16)



Could this be an UWR? Well, I think the scramble is too short.(20 moves)

/

Edit: Cube explorer splits the same optimal solution.(but I don't think he cheated.)


----------



## Bubtore (Mar 2, 2016)

Linus once had 15 on a scramble posted by someone on the german forum (L3C in 12 moves if I remember well).


----------



## coldsun0630 (Mar 2, 2016)

Bubtore said:


> Linus once had 15 on a scramble posted by someone on the german forum (L3C in 12 moves if I remember well).



Wow, that's very impressive! Can I see the solution?

/

Edit: I searched his post until January 2014, but couldn't find it. I think I missed it somewhere.


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## EMI (Mar 2, 2016)

Tied my single PB. Much luck involved, obviously.

Scramble: B2 U' R' F' B R' U F D' L B R2 U2 F R2 F' U2 F' U2 D2 R2

Orient some edges: R'
Switch, EO: B2 D' @ R
2x2x2: B2 F' D2 R2
F2L-1: U' D2 F' U
AB3C: D B D' B' D2

@ = D L D' R D L' D' R'

Solution: R' D2 B D B' D' U' F D2 U R2 D2 F B2 D L D' R' D L' B2 (21)


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## mycube (Mar 2, 2016)

Bubtore said:


> Linus once had 15 on a scramble posted by someone on the german forum (L3C in 12 moves if I remember well).



Wow I completely forgot about that. You know my solutions better than I do 



coldsun0630 said:


> Wow, that's very impressive! Can I see the solution?
> 
> /
> 
> Edit: I searched his post until January 2014, but couldn't find it. I think I missed it somewhere.



Here you go:
http://speedcube.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=5768&pid=198034#pid198034

It's in the German forum, so maybe you just searched hear or maybe missed it 

Edit: Besides this could be UWR (I am pretty sure other people had shorter solutions for other scrambles): I think you can't really have an UWR for FMC single because it depends sooo much on the scramble. I think there also could be a sub10 with an easy scramble, but more important are means or bigger averages


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## Robert-Y (Mar 3, 2016)

L' D L' B' L2 D F D2 B2 D' F2 U' R2 U' B2 U2 F2

I got this scramble last year when I was practicing 3x3x3 for the world championship. I shared this on facebook and a few people found the optimal solution. I think I got a 15 then gave up because I just simply didn't think the optimal solution would be that low (lower than 15). Turns out optimal is 13.


----------



## porkynator (Mar 4, 2016)

Robert-Y said:


> L' D L' B' L2 D F D2 B2 D' F2 U' R2 U' B2 U2 F2
> 
> I got this scramble last year when I was practicing 3x3x3 for the world championship. I shared this on facebook and a few people found the optimal solution. I think I got a 15 then gave up because I just simply didn't think the optimal solution would be that low (lower than 15). Turns out optimal is 13.



This was a funny "exercise" 


Spoiler



F2 D B D F
F L' D' L
D F L' F' L F' D'

15 HTM almost linear solution

F2 D B D
F2 L D'
L' F L2 F' L2 F'

After a short while


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## Hssandwich (Mar 5, 2016)

Weekly Comp 09 2015


Spoiler



R' B2 R D2 B2 R' U2 B2 L' B2 D2 U' B R' B F U F L2 U2

D premove:

D’ R U’ R D R// 2x2x2 (6/6)
D2 L D R// Almost XXcross (4/10)
L F’ * D2 F// XXcross (4/14)
L’ U L U’// F2L-1 (4/18)
L’ B’ L’ B// To L3C (4/22)

YOG -> YOB -> BOW

* F U B U’ F’ U B’ U’ (29)

D’ R U’ R D R D2 L D R L U B U’ F’ U B’ U’ D2 F L’ U L U’ L’ B’ L’ B D (29)


Any tips? This is my second best solve, and not particularly lucky as well!


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## andersonaap (Mar 6, 2016)

I am trying finish complete the skeleton for this, but I not get a descent one. Can someone help here?

B D2 F' D2 R2 D2 R2 F2 U2 F' L' B' U' B D R' U B F D R'

(D' R' F') // EO+PAIR
(D B2 R B2) // P2X2X2
L' // 2X2X2
(U L' U' L) // 2X2X3


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## penguinz7 (Mar 6, 2016)

First time doing EO in a solve. Pretty weird after that 2x2


Spoiler: solve



D2 R2 L2 U' B2 L2 B2 D R2 D' U2 L' U' R2 B' D2 L2 F R B U'



L' B F' R F' //EO
R U2 R U' R' D' //2x2 + Block
U' = B2 R2 B2 U2 L + U L' U2 //L5C

At = U' B D B' U B D' B'

At + L D2 L' U L D2 L' U'

L' B F' R F' R U2 R U' R' D' U2 B D B' U B D' B R2 B2 U2 L2 D2 L' U L D2 L2 U2
30 moves


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## coldsun0630 (Mar 6, 2016)

mycube said:


> Here you go:
> http://speedcube.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=5768&pid=198034#pid198034
> 
> It's in the German forum, so maybe you just searched hear or maybe missed it



Thank you! Well, I've searched only from FMC thread and that's why I missed it. Anyway, it's still impressive!
Also, Congrats on your FMC avg WR!


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## Cale S (Mar 6, 2016)

24 with pure OLL insertion for the Weekly FMC:


Spoiler



scramble: U D2 L' R2 B' L' F' R B F U2 L F2 U' D2 F B' L2 U' F'

B L B' L2 // 2x2x2
(D2 R D' B2) B R' // F2L - 1
D' (F L' F L F2) // to 5 unoriented pieces

skeleton: B L B' L2 B R' D' F2 L' F' @ L F' B2 D R' D2
@ = F' D' F2 L' F' L2 D' L' D2 // inserted pure OLL 

Final solution: B L B' L2 B R' D' F2 L' F2 D' F2 L' F' L2 D' L' D2 L F' B2 D R' D2 (24)


rolls my avg25 to 25.24

23 from the /r/cubers daily scramble


Spoiler



scramble: U2 L2 F2 D2 B R2 B D2 U2 B' U L' F L' F U B2 D' F'

(F' D F2 U) // roux block
F' L' U L2 // pseudo 2x2x3
B' D2 B L // fix pseudo and add square
B2 R2 U' B U B // to L3C

skeleton: F' L' U L2 B' D2 B @ L B2 R2 U' B U B U' F2 D' F
@ = [B', L' F L]

Final solution: F' L' U L2 B' D2 L' F L B L' F' L2 B2 R2 U' B U B U' F2 D' F (23)


----------



## Sebastien (Mar 6, 2016)

Hi all,

here are the solutions of my ridiculous Mean from this weekend:



Spoiler: 1. Scramble



Scramble: L2 D L2 U B2 U F2 U' F L F2 L' U2 R2 D2 B D L2 F'
Inverse: F L2 D' B' D2 R2 U2 L F2 L' F' U F2 U' B2 U' L2 D' L2

Misc: I was in a rather bad condition during this attempt because of a bad cold I was suffering from this week. This got better during the day, but for this first attempt I had problems to concentrate, causing me to act very unstructured. But don't get me wrong, this is not meant to be an excuse for the rather bad result, just an expression of my annoyance that I did not really feel fit for FMC that morning. Since 31s still happen every now and then, I could have as well gotten the same result if I had been compltely well nonetheless. 

Here is the solution I still managed to write down eventually:

2x2x2: B R2 F # D' 
2x2x3+EO: R' B' U R B R' U2 R2 
L5C: U' R' U R U2 B2 * U'

* = B2 D' F D B2 D' F' D
# = F' D2 F U' F' D2 F U

Solution: B R2 D2 F U' F' D2 F U D' R' B' U R B R' U2 R2 U' R' U R U2 D' F D B2 D' F' D U'

31 moves.

However, I probably spend most of the time on this start, as you can tell without any success. If you find something on this, I would be interested in seeing it!

EO: F' B2 U L' B 
Domino-Reduction: L' D' R D' R'






Spoiler: 2. Scramble



Scramble: D2 L2 F' U2 F L2 F L2 R' U R' U2 L' F R' B U' F2 R' D'
Inverse: D R F2 U B' R F' L U2 R U' R L2 F' L2 F' U2 F L2 D2

Inverse:
1x2x2: U R' U2
switch & EO+lots of blocks: B * U' F B' R' B'
F2L-1: U R' F2

Very promising start! I found a lot of possible finishes for insertions, this was my final ending:

L3C: L2 D L2 D' L2 D L D'

* = B' U' F U B U' F' U

Solution: U' F U B U' B' R' B' U R' F2 L2 D L2 D' L2 D L D' U2 R U'

22 moves.






Spoiler: 3. Scramble



Scramble: D2 R2 U2 R2 F2 U2 F U2 F2 R' B2 R' D2 B F2 D' L D2 F U'
Inverse: U F' D2 L' D F2 B' D2 R B2 R F2 U2 F' U2 F2 R2 U2 R2 D2

Inverse:
Orient 4 edges: L
switch & EO+pairs: R F R'
switch & welcome to blockland: R2 F R2

Again, so much to try here. After some time, I found the following and proceeded right away given that the 3 edges are in a great position for insertion:

switch & 3C3E: F2 D F' U2 B' U' F' L2

Skeleton: R F R' F2 D # F' U2 B' U' F' L2 R2 * F' R2 L'

* = R2 F' B U2 B' F
# = D' F' D B' D' F D B

optimal insertions.  Actually, even the whole finish starting from the first 7 moves is optimal.

Solution: R F R' F D B' D' F D B F' U2 B' U' F' L2 F' B U2 B' R2 L'

22 moves.



Mean: 31, 22, 22 = 25,00


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## penguinz7 (Mar 7, 2016)

Can someone take a look at this scramble? I spent the full hour and couldn't find anything. The best I found was a crazy 14 moves to Tripod LL, but I couldn't find a way to make that work..

F2 U2 F2 U2 L D2 L F2 D2 L2 D2 B' L' R F2 U' L' F2 D' U 




Spoiler: 14 to Tripod LL



D R' B U2 L' //2x2
(B' D2 R B2) //2x2x3
D2 B' D B //wat
R2 D //fix

If I used the tripod alg (F U' R' U R U F' R U R2 U R2 U2 R') it would have been 28. Half the moves being LL...


----------



## CyanSandwich (Mar 7, 2016)

I had this nice start on the weekly competition scramble. DNF'd because of time (was using the wrong inverse scramble for 20 minutes haha).



Spoiler



(L2 F' D2) //Pseudo 2x2x2
(F' U L' D) //What if I just make a 2x2x2. Wait that's a 2x2x3 and a million blocks.

//Didn't have much time left so I could only try a couple things.
(U2 F R F2 U2 F) //F2L-1
U' R2 U R' F R2 F' R2 //4C (21)



Seems like it could end well, if anyone wants to try it.


----------



## Cale S (Mar 7, 2016)

penguinz7 said:


> Can someone take a look at this scramble? I spent the full hour and couldn't find anything. The best I found was a crazy 14 moves to Tripod LL, but I couldn't find a way to make that work..
> 
> F2 U2 F2 U2 L D2 L F2 D2 L2 D2 B' L' R F2 U' L' F2 D' U
> 
> ...





Spoiler



D R' B U2 L' // 2x2x2
(B' D2 R B2) // 2x2x3
D2 B' D B // wat
R2 D // fix
D' (D') // change to different tripod alg
R2 F' R2 F2 R2 U F U' R2 D' F' D // different tripod alg

Final solution: D R' B U2 L' D2 B' D B F' R2 F2 R2 U F U' R2 D' F' D2 B2 R' D2 B

24 moves


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## penguinz7 (Mar 7, 2016)

Cale S said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hmm thanks, maybe I should learn some tripod..


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## Bubtore (Mar 10, 2016)

Attention : 5th scramble of the current german forum comp !

Really cool solution in my opinion 



Spoiler



Scramble // F2 R2 D F2 U2 B2 D2 F2 R2 U B F2 R' U' F2 D' U L' B R2 

B2 U2 B' * // P222
L F' B L D' L' // XXcross or 2E5C

* F' # D' F2 L' F' L2 D' L' D2
# B' U B D2 B' U' B D2 

Solution // B2 U2 B2 F' U B D2 B' U' B D F2 L' F' L2 D' L' D2 L F' B L D' L' - 24 Moves


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## Robert-Y (Mar 10, 2016)

I have to post this because it's just stupid 

D2 F2 R D2 L2 F2 L' B2 R' U2 F2 D' B2 L' U B' U B D B'

y' U' B F D F' // EO
U L' D F2 // 2x2x2
y2 R U' R2 U R // Opposite 2x2x2
R2 F2 U R' F2 R' // Attempt to extend the opposite 2x2x2 to 2x2x3 and get really lucky in the process

19 moves to AB3C. IF tells me optimal insertion leads to 26 (meh).

I was just experimenting with EO. I know there are 2 2 movers for EO with green/blue front/back. I just wanted to see if the other orientations were any good. I think normally I would try to sub 5 EO. I made some weird decisions but they paid off. This is not a very serious FMC attempt at all


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## Marcel P (Mar 12, 2016)

My winning Solutions from FMC Europe:

1. Scramble: D2 F' R L' U B' U' D2 L F R2 D B2 U2 D R2 D2 L2
Solution: F2 R2 F' U R' U2 R' U L U' R U2 R U2 F2 R' F2 R D2 F2 D2 F' D' R2 D (25 Moves)


Spoiler



F2 R2 F' L U' (5/5) - 2x2x2
switch
D' R2 D - (3/8) - EO
F D2 F2 D2 (4/12) - 2x2x3
R' F2 R F2 (4/16) - L5C
Skeleton: F2 R2 F' & L U' F2 R' F2 R D2 F2 D2 F' D' R2 D
& = U R' U' L % U R U' L' (8-3/21)
% = L' U' R' U L U' R U (8-4/25)



2. Scramble: U' D' F D L' B R' U F R B' U2 D2 L2 F2 D2 R' F2 R
Solution: U R' D B2 L2 D' L' D L F L2 F' L2 F D' L2 D R' D' L D R L' D2 L' F2 L' R2 F (29 Moves)


Spoiler



Start on Inverse
F' R2 (2/2) - kind of pseudo 2x2x2
switch
U R' D B2 (4/6) - 2x2x2
switch
L F2 L D2 (4/10) - 2x2x3
L D' L D F' (5/15) - F2L-1
L2 F L2 F' L' D' L D L2 (9/24) - L3C
Skeleton: U R' D B2 L2 D' L' D L F L2 F' L2 F D' L' § D L' D2 L' F2 L' R2 F
§ = L' D R' D' L D R D' (8-3/29)



3. Scramble: L2 U2 B2 F2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 D' U' B' R D' B F R' B' R2 F2
Solution: F R D L2 D' U B2 U F' R B R' B' R B' D2 R' D L' D' R2 D R' L' U' (25 Moves)


Spoiler



Start auf Inverse
U L2 R D' (4/4) - EO
switch
F R U2 F' (4/8) - 2x2x2 + 1x2x2
R B R' B' R B' D2 R (8/16) - 3C3E
Skeleton: F R $ U2 F' R B R' B' R B' D2 R # D R' L2 U'
$ = D L2 D' U B2 U' (6-1/21) - Edges
# = R2 D L' D' R2 D L D' (8-4/25) - Corners


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## kinch2002 (Mar 12, 2016)

*FMC Europe 2016*

Results

195 Competitors registered
167 Competitors actually competed, representing 23 Countries
25 Locations in 17 Countries

80 successful means (48%)
346 solves (69%)
142 DNF (28%)
13 DNS (3%)
Success Rate (ignoring DNS): 71%

Best solve: Robert Yau - Attempt 1 - 23 moves
Best solve on each scramble: 23, 27, 25 = 25.00 mean. Second scramble was really tough in my opinion; seems like everyone else agreed!
Average solve: 40.71 moves
30 sub-30s

Can't get the embed working, so left these as attachments:






Records

AfR Average: Conor Cronin (South Africa) - 35.67

NR Single: Robert Yau (United Kingdom) - 23
=NR Single: Grzegorz Łuczyna (Poland) - 25
=NR Single: Henrik Buus Aagaard (Denmark) - 27
NR Single: Ömer Çetinkaya (Turkey) - 38

=NR Average: Anton Krokhmal (Ukraine) - 30.00
=NR Average: Bogdan Grigoruţă (Romania) - 38.00
NR Average: Darja Makurina (Latvia) - 48.33 (Latvia now have results in all categories )
NR Average: Ömer Çetinkaya (Turkey) - 49.33


----------



## TDM (Mar 12, 2016)

kinch2002 said:


> *SAR* Average: Conor Cronin (South Africa) - 35.67



Conor's so good, he's getting records for multiple continents! 

Thanks for sharing the stats. Germany had a 30.57 average of 23... wow. Also interesting how Russia had the lowest sucess rate by over 30% (edit: didn't see Netherlands, so only by 19%) but one of the best averages.


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## guusrs (Mar 13, 2016)

We had a bad day in the Netherlands during FMC Europe.
No one of the 5 dutch competitors had 3 finishes. 
I found solves of 29, 36, 29 moves but.....
But I made notation errors during solve 1, couldn find the error in time and i had to fallback on my backup solve (32 moves).
For the 3th solve I also made notation errors (nerves?) so DNF.
2nd scramble was terrible, hard to find good starts. I came up with bad a linear solve (36 moves). 
But on my relaxing sunday I found a smooth 24-move solve in 20min or so:

scramble round 2: U' D' F D L' B R' U F R B' U2 D2 L2 F2 D2 R' F2 R
solve: D R F2 U2 F' R D B D2 B2 U B' D' B U' D2 B R' D R D' B' U L (24)

explanation:
solve on normal scramble: premoves [U L] (found on inverse scramble, makes pair and orient some edges)
D R (orient 2 edges)
F2 U2 F' (2x2x2 block) 
R D B D2 B2 (extra edge & corner)
U B' D' B U' (15+2, F2L-1 + EO)
D2 R' D R D' (20+2, 3 corners left)
solve 3 corners at the end: D R' D' R . B . R' D R D'. B' with a funny 8 move cancellation!
undo premoves: U L (24)


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## Robert-Y (Mar 13, 2016)

^Crazy 

I also wanted to retry the 2nd scramble and found this:

Scramble: U' D' F D L' B R' U F R B' U2 D2 L2 F2 D2 R' F2 R
Inverse: R' F2 R D2 F2 L2 D2 U2 B R' F' U' R B' L D' F' D U

(switch)
F' R2 // Pseudo 2x2x2
(switch)
U R' D B2 // 2x2x2 with extra move
(switch)
L F2 L D L2 D // 2x2x3 +square
(switch)
F (U L' U L B L' B' U2) L // AB3C. I used a L3E+parity alg. I knew I would solve one corner but I skipped another one fortunately.

Skeleton: U R' D B2 F % U L' U L B L' B' U2 L D' L2 D' L' F2 L' R2 F (22)

Insertion: % L' D' L U L' D L U'

Final solution: U R' D B2 F L' D' L U L' D U L B L' B' U2 L D' L2 D' L' F2 L' R2 F (26, 4 moves cancelled)

I used Marcel's start to help me with this


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## TheDubDubJr (Mar 14, 2016)

After a discussion with Yau, we were trying to figure out if a 4-corner skeleton of 2+2Twisted is better than a 2+2Pure Cycle. Or if they are exactly the same.

Not trying to make a clash between us  , but the UKers thought that 2+2Twisted has more freedom, but us Dankers (Kit, Ryan, Mark and I) always thought a 2+2Pure was better because of the leniency in being able to have 1-2 or 2-1 where you can still use a comm if you find that it cancels more going the other direction.

Thinking it over, it seems like 2+2Twisted and 2+2Pure both have the same number of combinations of insertions you can find but its easier to look through all of the insertions for a 2+2Pure because you can look at 1-2-X and 2-1-X at the same time.

Is this correct or is there something else we are missing. I was just surprised because I always thought 2+2Pure was a lot better.


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## Cale S (Mar 14, 2016)

26 for current Weekly FMC


Spoiler



scramble: F U' R B D F2 B R' U' L' U D' B2 F2 D2 U R F' D B2

B2 D' F // roux block
(U2 F' D R' D2) // 2x2x3
(F U F' B' U' B) // EO + square
L2 (U2 L' U L R U' L' U L R' U') // WV to LL skip

Final solution: B2 D' F L2 U R L' U' L U R' L' U' L U2 B' U B F U' F' D2 R D' F U2 (26)

interesting how the roux block just undoes the last 3 moves of the scramble





TheDubDubJr said:


> After a discussion with Yau, we were trying to figure out if a 4-corner skeleton of 2+2Twisted is better than a 2+2Pure Cycle. Or if they are exactly the same.
> 
> Not trying to make a clash between us  , but the UKers thought that 2+2Twisted has more freedom, but us Dankers (Kit, Ryan, Mark and I) always thought a 2+2Pure was better because of the leniency in being able to have 1-2 or 2-1 where you can still use a comm if you find that it cancels more going the other direction.
> 
> ...



2+2twisted has 8 possible combinations of commutators, 2+2pure has 16 because you can do inverses, so I think you're right.
edit: nevermind this is wrong


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## TheDubDubJr (Mar 14, 2016)

Cale S said:


> 2+2twisted has 8 possible combinations of commutators, 2+2pure has 16 because you can do inverses, so I think you're right.



Yau and I got 24 combinations for each 2+2Pure and 2+2Twisted.


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## Cale S (Mar 14, 2016)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Yau and I got 24 combinations for each 2+2Pure and 2+2Twisted.



yeah I just redid it and got the same, but I think 2+2pure would be better because for 2+2twisted, having one of the possible comms be an 8 mover would often mean lots of other possibilities at the same position would not be pure 8 movers, while 2+2pure can always have the inverse case done as well


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## Daniel Egdal (Mar 14, 2016)

FMC Europe scramble 2 

My solution didnt work at the comp (forgot something about the premove) at 5 mins left I panicked and made a 55 move backup 

My almost 28 move solution R2 F' R F' R' D2 F D' F L U2 L' D2 L U2 L' R' D' R F2 R D B U' L' B R2 F 

NORMAL U' D' F D L' B R' U F R B' U2 D2 L2 F2 D2 R' F2 R

INVERSE R' F2 R D2 F2 L2 D2 U2 B R' F' U' R B' L D' F' D U 

START ON INVERSE

2X2X2 F' R2 B' L U B' (6/6)

PREMOVE R2 (1/7)

PSEUDO 2X2X3 D' R' (2/9)

SWITCH

F2L-1 F' R F' R' D2 (5/14)

SKELTON F D' F D2 R' D' R F2 (8/22)

SOLUTION: R2 F' R F' R' D2 F D' F D2 [#] R' D' R F2 R D B U' L' B R2 F

INSERT AT # D2 L U2 L' D2 L U2 L'

FINAL SOLUTION: R2 F' R F' R' D2 F D' F L U2 L' D2 L U2 L' R' D' R F2 R D B U' L' B R2 F


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## Attila (Mar 14, 2016)

FMC EU 3rd scramble:
L2 U2 B2 F2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 D' U' B' R D' B F R' B' R2 F2

I found this 20-move solution in 80 mins :
L2 D' F B' L U F B' R F L2 U2 F2 B2 D R F2 D2 R' B


Spoiler



( B' R D2 F2 R' D ) orient corners and 4 edges,
L2 D' F B' L U F B' R 4 more edges / domino reduction,
F L2 U2 F2 B2 D2.



Another lucky scramble:
D2 F2 R D2 L2 F2 L' B2 R' U2 F2 D' B2 L' U B' U B D B'
Posted by Robert Yau a few days ago.

My 21-move solution within 1hr:
F2 R' L F2 U' F U2 B D2 F' R2 L F2 B2 R' F2 U R L' B' D


Spoiler



F2 R' L F2 U' orient corners and 4 edges,
(D' B L R' U' ) orient edges,
(F2 R B2 F2 L' R2 F D2 B' U2 F' ) LSE.


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## guusrs (Mar 14, 2016)

Attila said:


> FMC EU 3rd scramble:
> L2 U2 B2 F2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 D' U' B' R D' B F R' B' R2 F2
> 
> I found this 20-move solution in 80 mins :
> ...



wow, awsome solution!


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## Robert-Y (Mar 16, 2016)

D2 L B' U2 F2 B R U2 D' R U2 F2 B2 U2 F2 D2 L2 U2 F' U2 D2
Inverse: D2 U2 F U2 L2 D2 F2 U2 B2 F2 U2 R' D U2 R' B' F2 U2 B L' D2

2x2x2: L' R2 F2 D2

Can anyone find a shorter solution with this 2x2x2? My best is 29 so far (17 to 2+2, 4 moves cancelled with insertions)
I've tried inserting random D moves between the L' and R2 and I've also tried EO after the 2x2x2 (Do R U or R U' after the 2x2x2). I haven't had much luck.


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## Cale S (Mar 16, 2016)

Robert-Y said:


> D2 L B' U2 F2 B R U2 D' R U2 F2 B2 U2 F2 D2 L2 U2 F' U2 D2
> Inverse: D2 U2 F U2 L2 D2 F2 U2 B2 F2 U2 R' D U2 R' B' F2 U2 B L' D2
> 
> 2x2x2: L' R2 F2 D2
> ...



Here's an interesting 29 with no B moves and <R,F,U> for the last 20 moves

L' R2 F2 D2 // 2x2x2
U2 // pair
(F') // xcross + pair
F' U F U2 R2 // 2x2x3
R' F' R U2 (U2) // F2L - 1
F2 R' F' R F U F2 U' F' // to L3C

L' R2 @ F2 D2 U2 F' U F U2 R F' R U2 F2 R' F' R F U F2 U' F' U2 F
@ = [R2, F L' F'] 

Final solution: L' F L' F' R2 F L F D2 U2 F' U F U2 R F' R U2 F2 R' F' R F U F2 U' F' U2 F


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## Robert-Y (Mar 16, 2016)

Some people wanted my 23 from FMC Europe so here it is.

D2 F' R L' U B' U' D2 L F R2 D B2 U2 D R2 D2 L2

F2 R2 L F' U' // 2x2x2 with extra move
D' R' D2 // 2x2x3 with D' premove
R' F2 U' R U F' U F' U'// AB3C

F2 R2 L F' ⎀ U' D' R' D2 R' F2 U' R U F' U F' U' D' // Skeleton

⎀ = [F, D B2 D']

Final solution: F2 R2 L D B2 D' F' D B2 D2 U' R' D2 R' F2 U' R U F' U F' U' D' (23, 3 moves cancelled)


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## porkynator (Mar 16, 2016)

Bad results for me at FMC Europe.

Scramble 1: in the last 15 minutes I try to write down a safety 33 moves solution, but I fail. It's my first official DNF in FMC 
Scramble 2: I find a nice start and a decent L5C skeleton, but insertions aren't good and I don't bother writing down a solution (the mean is already DNF)


Spoiler



Scramble: U' D' F D L' B R' U F R B' U2 D2 L2 F2 D2 R' F2 R
EO: U2 F U' L D'
2x2x2: R' D2
MAGIC: B' R' B (3 premoves make F2L-1+EO in 13)
I don't remember exactly how, but after this I got all but 5 corners in 19 moves in total, then 7+5 moves for insertions (possibly not even close to optimal)


Scramble 3: a good solve (27)


Spoiler



Scramble: L2 U2 B2 F2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 D' U' B' R D' B F R' B' R2 F2
On normal:
3x2x1: F R' D2 B
On inverse with premoves B' D2 R F'
Square: U
F2L-1 (-1 move): R L2 D' L2
Pseudo F2L: F R F'
2c2e: R U B U' B R2
LL alg: R' F2 L2 D' L' D L' F2 R U'


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## Cale S (Mar 16, 2016)

porkynator said:


> Scramble 3: a good solve (27)
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



If you AUF before the LL alg, you cancel 2 moves instead of 1

U' B' R2 F2 D' F' D F' R2 B

Solution: F R' D2 R2 F D' F D F2 R2 B U R2 B U B' U' R' F R' F' L2 D L2 R' U' (26)


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## okayama (Mar 19, 2016)

My (tied) winning solution from Kansai Open 2016.

Scramble: D B2 R2 B2 R2 D' F2 L2 D R B U' F2 L' D' F' R B' F
Solution: D L F D' F' U' F D F' B D' F2 U' R2 U2 R' U' F2 B' D B U2 B' D' B (25 moves)


Spoiler



2x2x1 block: D L *
2x2x2 block: U' B D'
2x2x3 block: F2 U' R
More square: R U2 R'
More square: U'
All but 4 corners: F2 U2
All but 3 corners: U2 B' D B U2 B' D' B

Insert at *: F D' F' U' F D F' U

The skeleton leaves 4 corners with only 13-move, the shortest skeleton that I've found in official competitions so far, but unfortunately I couldn't find any further good insertions. 


Nice scramble, and Shuto Ueno also got 25 moves (18-move 3CP skeleton).
Yuhei Takagi got 27-move solution, but DNF because of a notation error.
Hopefully they write their nice solutions here.


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## Robert-Y (Mar 19, 2016)

Wow only cancelling 4 moves with 4 corners is a bit unlucky? But at least the skeleton is so short and simple


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## uesyuu (Mar 21, 2016)

Here is my winning solution from Kansai Open 2016. (Official PB! )

Scramble: D B2 R2 B2 R2 D' F2 L2 D R B U' F2 L' D' F' R B' F
Solution: D R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2 U2 L B L' U L D' U F2 U' D2 L D L' D R U (25moves)

EO: D * U' L B
222: L' U L D'
pseudo F2L-1: U F2 U' R
L3C: R' D2 L D L' D R U

Insert at * = R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2 U'

Skeleton is nice but insert is not good.

I also found 15moves skeleton with 5corners.
EO: D U' L B
222: L' U L D'
223: F2 U' R
pseudo F2L-1: R U R'
L5C: F2 U
But optimal is 27moves


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## mycube (Mar 21, 2016)

Beware: This is the first scramble of this week's FMC Challenge in the German forum!

Can someone find a good finish for this start?
Scramble: U' B2 D' F2 D' B2 D' B' D2 B' R2 B2 R' D' U R' D F'
Inverse: F D' R U' D R B2 R2 B D2 B D B2 D F2 D B2 U

inv:
U' B2
sw:
F2 L F2 L
U2 R'
I either find: U F' R' F R or U2 R U' R' so 4c2e, but I can't manage to find anything good with it


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## irontwig (Mar 21, 2016)

mycube said:


> Beware: This is the first scramble of this week's FMC Challenge in the German forum!
> 
> Can someone find a good finish for this start?
> Scramble: U' B2 D' F2 D' B2 D' B' D2 B' R2 B2 R' D' U R' D F'
> ...





Spoiler



F2 L F2 L U2 R' U2 R U' R' B2 U
F2 D' F' D F2 D' F' D F

F2 L F2 L U2 R' U2 R U' R' [@1] B2 U F2 D' F' D F2 D' F' D F
Insert at @1: R U R' D R U' R' D'
Fewest moves: 23. 6 moves cancelled
The final solution: F2 L F2 L U2 R' U2 D R U' R' D' B2 U F2 D' F' D F2 D' F' D F


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## mycube (Mar 21, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I kind of feel dumb right now.. Thanks! Something new to try out for my future attempts.


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## Robert-Y (Mar 22, 2016)

Scramble: L2 B2 D2 R2 D2 F' R2 B2 F' D2 B D R' F' L2 D L2 B' D2 L' R2
Inverse: R2 L D2 B L2 D' L2 F R D' B' D2 F B2 R2 F D2 R2 D2 B2 L2

L' D' R2 // Square + pairs
(switch)
D B' // Pseudo 2x2x2
(switch)
L' F' B' U2 // Pseudo 2x2x3
U L2 U' // Make another pair...
(switch)
U L F' L // Pseudo F2L-1
F U' F2 // Another square
U2 L' U' // AB3C

Skeleton: L' D' R2 L' F' B' U' L' U2 F2 U F' L' % F L' U' B D'

% = L U' R' U L' U' R U

Final solution: L' D' R2 L' F' B' U' L' U2 F2 U F' U' R' U L' U' R U F L' U' B D' (24, 2+3 moves cancelled)


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## kbrune (Mar 22, 2016)

I've been looking for a thread that outlines some FMC techniques as well as the lingo. I've been learning about comms. I finally have figured out what insertions mean. I know most of the heise method. But I've yet to find info on what a skeleton is or its purpose. And also how to use inverse scramble (or even why this is useful or allowed ).

Anyone point me in the right direction?


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## irontwig (Mar 22, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I've been looking for a thread that outlines some FMC techniques as well as the lingo. I've been learning about comms. I finally have figured out what insertions mean. I know most of the heise method. But I've yet to find info on what a skeleton is or its purpose. And also how to use inverse scramble (or even why this is useful or allowed ).
> 
> Anyone point me in the right direction?



http://bfy.tw/4sxX


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## CyanSandwich (Mar 22, 2016)

kbrune said:


> I've been looking for a thread that outlines some FMC techniques as well as the lingo. I've been learning about comms. I finally have figured out what insertions mean. I know most of the heise method. But I've yet to find info on what a skeleton is or its purpose. And also how to use inverse scramble (or even why this is useful or allowed ).
> 
> Anyone point me in the right direction?


https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?49162-FMC-a-Complete-Tutorial
Goes over everything.


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## Cale S (Mar 22, 2016)

24 for ongoing Weekly FMC


Spoiler



scramble: L2 B2 U' F2 D2 R2 F L2 U2 R2 L' U2 R2 L' B2 F2 D2 L2 B2 R

D F' // square
U2 // another one
(L2 F' L2 R) R2 // 2x2x3
(L' B L2 U' L') // EO + CP (reduce to 2-gen)
U2 B' U' B' U' B2 // F2L - 1
B' U2 B U' B' U2 B // summer variation

Final solution: D F' U2 R2 U2 B' U' B' U' B U2 B U' B' U2 B L U L2 B' R' L' F L2 (24)




22, 28, 28, 27, 26, 23, 24, 27, 24, 23, 23, 26, 26, 26, 26, 28, 28, 24, 25, 25, 29, 24, 24, 25, 27, 26, 28, 23, 25, 24, 26, 24


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## Robert-Y (Mar 24, 2016)

My attempt at that scramble^



Spoiler



L2 B2 U' F2 D2 R2 F L2 U2 R2 L' U2 R2 L' B2 F2 D2 L2 B2 R
R' B2 L2 D2 F2 B2 L R2 U2 L R2 U2 L2 F' R2 D2 F2 U B2 L2

L' D2 L D' // EO (yes this is long )
F' L2 F // 1x2x3
L' R' F2 L2 B' L' // Pseudo F2L (premoves: L2 R2)
F L' F L2 B' L B L2 F2 // LL
D2 L2 R2 // Finish solve

L' D2 L D' F' L2 F L' R' F2 L2 B' L' F L' F L2 B' L B L2 F2 D2 L2 R2 (25)



Can anyone find a better way to solve the last 3 corners and edges? If you look at LL and remove F at the start and F' at the end, you get L' F L2 B' L B L2 F' which is a block commutator. I couldn't find a better way to setup the pieces for a 8 move block commutator in my skeleton...


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## irontwig (Mar 24, 2016)

Robert-Y said:


> My attempt at that scramble^
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I tried, but couldn't improve on your solution:



Spoiler



Here's a silly way to get 25:
L' D2 L D' // EO (yes this is long )
F' L2 F // 1x2x3
L' R' F2 L2.B' L R2 // Pseudo F2L (premoves: L2 R2)

.=B R' B' R

L' D2 L D' F' L2 F L' R' [@1] F2 L2 B R' B' R B' L R2
Insert at @1: R' B' R F2 R' B R F2
After the 1st insertion: L' D2 L D' F' L2 F L' R2 B' R F2 R' B R L2 B R' B' R B' [@2] L R2
Insert at @2: B R' B' L' B R B' L
Fewest moves: 25. 9 moves cancelled
The final solution: L' D2 L D' F' L2 F L' R2 B' R F2 R' B R L2 B R' B2 L' B R B' L2 R2

As you might guess, I tried to find a place to insert a 4 mover to leave three corners, but couldn't. Btw, when did four moves for EO become long? Also, I found a 23-mover on that scramble (50 minute skeleton, bit of a close shave, but whatevs, that's what you get when you average like 16 instead of sub-10.).


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## Robert-Y (Mar 24, 2016)

Spoiler



There's a 2 move EO on inverse and I think there are at least 2 3 movers normal/inverse. So 4 moves seems long


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## TheDubDubJr (Mar 24, 2016)

22 for ongoing Speedsolving Forum Competition - FMC Scramble

Glad to have another good single since its been a while.



Spoiler



n B2 U R2 D2 U B2 R2 D B2 L2 U2 L D R2 F U2 F U2 R2 F U
i U' F' R2 U2 F' U2 F' R2 D' L' U2 L2 B2 D' R2 B2 U' D2 R2 U' B2

n U' R2 F // EO
L2 // 2x2x1
switch
i D2 U L U' B2 // PS 2x2x3
F2 R' U F2 U2 // 14 to L5C

U' R2 F L2 U2 F2 U' R ([3]512 R B R' F2 R B' R' F2) F2 B2 U L' ([5]345 L U' L' D' L U L' D) U' D2

U' R2 F L2 U2 F2 U' R2 B R' F2 R B' R' B2 L' D' L U L' U' D' // 22


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## Kit Clement (Mar 28, 2016)

Not that the dadams scrambles are the highest honor in all of FMC, but I really think these two solutions are beyond suspicious. They seem like Kociemba 2-phase solutions to me.

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/profile/218/


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## Cale S (Mar 29, 2016)

sometimes 3 insertions for a corner 3-cycle is better than 1


Spoiler



Weekly FMC spoilers


Spoiler



scramble: D2 L B D' U2 B' L' U F D2 R2 F' L' U2 R2 B2 D L2 B U


D' L2 F2 U2 // 2x2x2
(B2 D' F' D F) D' // 2x2x3 
(U B2 U') U' L' U L' // to ZBLL

D' L2 F2 U D' L' U L' U B2 @ U' F' D' F D B2 
@ = B' U' B' U B2 U' B2 U 

skeleton: D' L2 F2 U D' L' U L' U B U' B' U B2 U' B2 F' D' F D B2
insert [B2, D' F' D F] at the end

new skeleton: D' L2 F2 U D' ^ L' U L' & U B U' B' U B2 U' F' D' F D 
^ = [D R D', L']
& = [L, U' R U]

Final solution: D' L2 F2 U R D' L' D R' D' R U L' U' R' U2 B U' B' U B2 U' F' D' F D (26)








Kit Clement said:


> Not that the dadams scrambles are the highest honor in all of FMC, but I really think these two solutions are beyond suspicious. They seem like Kociemba 2-phase solutions to me.
> 
> https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/profile/218/


those explanations are pretty funny


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## Cale S (Mar 29, 2016)

2 questions for other FMCers:

If you do BLD in an orientation other than the WCA scrambling orientation, do you scramble in that orientation instead?

Do you actually write down the inverse scramble at the start of an attempt?


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## CyanSandwich (Mar 29, 2016)

Cale S said:


> 2 questions for other FMCers:
> 
> If you do BLD in an orientation other than the WCA scrambling orientation, do you scramble in that orientation instead?
> 
> Do you actually write down the inverse scramble at the start of an attempt?



1. No
2. yes


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Mar 29, 2016)

Cale S said:


> 2 questions for other FMCers:



Not a serious FMCer but
1) No, it's easier to check against the image on the sheet if I use WCA orientation instead of BLD.
2) No, I think it's easy enough to invert as I'm using it so I don't bother.


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## Torch (Mar 29, 2016)

Cale S said:


> 2 questions for other FMCers:
> 
> If you do BLD in an orientation other than the WCA scrambling orientation, do you scramble in that orientation instead?
> 
> Do you actually write down the inverse scramble at the start of an attempt?



I scramble for FMC in my BLD orientation. I'm so used to (in my case) blue being U, red being F, and so on that it was easier for me to do that for FMC than learn something new.

I usually write down the inverse, but not until I actually use it; i.e. I'll start immediately looking at normal, then I'll write down the inverse when/if I switch.

Disclaimer: I'm not great at FMC.


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## irontwig (Mar 29, 2016)

Cale S said:


> Do you actually write down the inverse scramble at the start of an attempt?



No, why would I?


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## tseitsei (Mar 29, 2016)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> Not a serious FMCer but
> 1) No, it's easier to check against the image on the sheet if I use WCA orientation instead of BLD.
> 2) No, I think it's easy enough to invert as I'm using it so I don't bother.



this.


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## Cale S (Mar 29, 2016)

I guess I'll share my answers also:
1. I use WCA scrambling orientation for BLD so this isn't a problem 
2. I don't because I'm bad at copying scrambles and I can invert looking at it just as quickly as normal scrambles


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## TheDubDubJr (Mar 29, 2016)

Cale S said:


> 2 questions for other FMCers:
> 
> If you do BLD in an orientation other than the WCA scrambling orientation, do you scramble in that orientation instead?
> 
> Do you actually write down the inverse scramble at the start of an attempt?



1) I do Blue top, Yellow front for BLD but I never scramble in that orientation for either BLD or FMC.

2) I always write the inverse scramble at the start of an attempt. I am fast at scrambling the inverse of written notation but I feel like writing it does save time when I have to scramble using the inverse over and over.


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## okayama (Mar 30, 2016)

Cale S said:


> 2 questions for other FMCers:
> 
> If you do BLD in an orientation other than the WCA scrambling orientation, do you scramble in that orientation instead?
> 
> Do you actually write down the inverse scramble at the start of an attempt?



1. Yes. Sometimes upside-down though, because I'm not color-neutral.

2. No.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 4, 2016)

*22 moves UK NR*

Exeter Open 2016
D R F' D' L2 B2 L' D F2 B U2 B' U2 L2 B U2 B2 D2 R2

Could have spent another 2 hours on this scramble without getting bored...too much to explore here in 1 hour.

*My 22 move NR*
F2 R' D' U2 F R D2 R2 // 2x2x3 (8)
D' L B2 L' // F2L-1 (12) (yes there's a 13 move F2L...more on that below)
D B D2 F B2 L B L' F' D // Finish (22)
You can think of this last part as either a forced LL skip or a sledgehammer to leave 3 corners, and insert to cancel a ton of moves.

*Other full solutions I found*
F2 R' D' U2 F R D2 R2 // 2x2x3 (8)
B' D' L B2 L' // F2L (13)
R L' D' L2 B' L' B2 D' B' D2 R' D' // Finish (*24*). This is the 9-move 3twist2flip alg with a setup move R and AUF at the end ofc

F2 R' D' U2 F R D2 R2 // 2x2x3 (8)
Switch to inverse
B D2 B // F2L-1 (11)
D' L' D' L B D B' D2 // Leave 3 corners (19)
*26* moves after insertion

*Other starts*
2x2x2s:
Premove F', then L' U' (3)
Premove F', then B2 L' U' (4) is also nice
Found at least 6 more 5-movers quickly. Won't bother listing them all here
2x2x3s:
Premoves U L then inverse scramble and F L2 D' B2 D' (7)
B2 L F2 D F R B2 (7) (gives 11 move F2L-1 with B' L' D' L B)
B2 L F2 D R F B2 (7)
Premoves D F' then L' U' L D' B D2 (8)
B2 F' L2 D' L' D2 R B2 (8)
B2 F U F2 D L R' B2 (8)


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## Evan Liu (Apr 4, 2016)

kinch2002 said:


> Exeter Open 2016
> D R F' D' L2 B2 L' D F2 B U2 B' U2 L2 B U2 B2 D2 R2


My solution:
B2 U L * F2 D R' F // 2x2x3 (7/7)
B2 // F2L-1 (1/8)
D' R2 D R B R' B' R2 // to L4C (8/16)

*D B ^ D' F2 D B' D' F2 (8-4/20)
^B U2 B' D' B U2 B' D (8-3/25)

The podium of Daniel (22), me (25), and Rob (27) is tied for the 4th best as of posting, only one move total behind the three tied for first place.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 4, 2016)

Evan Liu said:


> My solution:
> B2 U L F2 D R' F // 2x2x3 (7/7)
> B2 // F2L-1 (1/8)


Wow didn't have an F2L-1 this short! Your continuation is obvious enough after that, but how about this...
R D' F' U F' U' F R2 F R' D // 3 corners (think of it as building the RBW block in a convoluted way, while making an extra pair)
Skeleton B2 U * L F2 D R' F B2 R D' F' U F' U' F R2 F R' D
Insert B' L F2 L' B L F2 L' to cancel 4 moves = *23 moves*


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## Hssandwich (Apr 4, 2016)

kinch2002 said:


> Exeter Open 2016
> D R F' D' L2 B2 L' D F2 B U2 B' U2 L2 B U2 B2 D2 R2



I know I DNFed, but I was quite content with my 22 moves to 4C, sadly, it was two 2 cycles.

B2
F' U F U R' U2
L F' D F
R D' R' D2 B2
L' D L B D2 B'


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## G2013 (Apr 4, 2016)

Under 25 FMC solves are genius solves/solvers or stupid scrambles. Mostly the 1st one, though.
I have to start doing FMC again


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## Mollerz (Apr 4, 2016)

Exeter scramble was bad I had too many options and not enough good continuations, obviously I missed all the good ones! Always ended up with 4 corners or 3c but with a skeleton that was just too long. I need to work on my efficiency going through an attempt I think.


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## Evan Liu (Apr 4, 2016)

kinch2002 said:


> Wow didn't have an F2L-1 this short! Your continuation is obvious enough after that, but how about this...
> R D' F' U F' U' F R2 F R' D // 3 corners (think of it as building the RBW block in a convoluted way, while making an extra pair)
> Skeleton B2 U * L F2 D R' F B2 R D' F' U F' U' F R2 F R' D
> Insert B' L F2 L' B L F2 L' to cancel 4 moves = *23 moves*


Nice, thanks for the tip! Still wouldn't have beaten your solution though.


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## kinch2002 (Apr 4, 2016)

Hssandwich said:


> I know I DNFed, but I was quite content with my 22 moves to 4C, sadly, it was two 2 cycles.
> 
> B2
> F' U F U R' U2
> ...


Switch to inverse then D L B L' F' R' B R F B' D' to leave 3 corners
Skeleton B2 * F' U F U R' U2 L F' D F B' D B R' B' R L B' L' D' (23)
Insert at * D' F' U2 F D F' U2 F to cancel 3 moves
*28 moves*

Optimal double insertion from your actual skeleton gets you 30 btw. What else did you expect apart from two 2cycles when you had 4 corners left? 2+2 and 3+1twisted are both just double insertions.


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## Hssandwich (Apr 4, 2016)

kinch2002 said:


> Switch to inverse then D L B L' F' R' B R F B' D' to leave 3 corners
> Skeleton B2 * F' U F U R' U2 L F' D F B' D B R' B' R L B' L' D' (23)
> Insert at * D' F' U2 F D F' U2 F to cancel 3 moves
> *28 moves*
> ...


Cool solution! I knew that the solve would not be <30 and I was hoping it might be sub 35. I ran out of time for insertions, so I just tried to do OLL and PLL, but I messed something up hence the DNF...


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## adimare (Apr 5, 2016)

Kit Clement said:


> Not that the dadams scrambles are the highest honor in all of FMC, but I really think these two solutions are beyond suspicious. They seem like Kociemba 2-phase solutions to me.
> 
> https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/profile/218/



I kind of lost interest in submitting solutions to that competition because of how often that happens. Last time I competed these were the results:
https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/107/


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## andersonaap (Apr 5, 2016)

Can anybody help me with this?

B2 D' R2 D L2 R2 F2 D F2 D2 F2 R B2 D' L' U L F U' L2 D'

(D2) // HOLDS PAIR
(B2 U' B) // EO
(L' U) // SQUARE 
(L) // PSEUDO 2X2X2
R2 B2 // SQUARE
R B2 // SQUARE
L // 2X2X2 
U' // F2L-1 -1CORNER
R2 // AB2E5C

Can I finish with 5 corners left? 
Some insertion is applied for edges from here?


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## irontwig (Apr 8, 2016)

Generally, no. You should go back and see if you can continue on your start in another way, since parity takes too many moves to fix.


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## Cale S (Apr 10, 2016)

23 for current Weekly FMC with insane edge insertions


Spoiler



Scramble: U L2 F2 B R2 L B2 U' R2 B' U2 F' B R F2 D2 L R' B' U2

(B2) // square
B' L // another one
(U) U2 R' D' U // 2x2x3
U D' L' D (L) // F2L - 1
(U' F U F' U L') // L4E

skeleton: B' L U2 @ R' D2 U2 L' D L U' F U' F' U L' U' B2
@ = [E, R2] // 6 mover cancels 2

L3E skeleton: B' L U' D' F2 % U' D R U2 D2 L' D L U' F U' F' U L' U' B2
% = [F D F', E'] // 10 mover cancels 8

Final solution: B' L U' D' F' D F' U' D R U2 D L' D L U' F U' F' U L' U' B2 (23)


20 in ATM heh


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## BQ (Apr 11, 2016)

I just got the solution from Jiejie Du (2010DUJI01), who broke the AsR in the Cross-strait FMC 2016 last weekend.
#1 


Spoiler



scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 R D2 L D2 R2 U2 R D R F' D2 B2 R' U2 L D L2 B' R' U' F
solution:
pseudo 222: NISS L D2 //2
222: NISS D2 * //1
223: NISS D R D2 F2 D F' //6-1
TEC: R F R F' U2 //5
233: R2 F R F' //4
L3C: U' R' B' R B U //6
insert at *：F' U' B' U F U' B U //8-4
final solution:
D2 F' U' B' U F U' R' B R U F R' F' R2 U2 F R' F' R' F D' F2 D2 R' D L' //27f


#2


Spoiler



scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 D2 F2 D2 U' B2 R2 D2 L2 B R2 U2 F2 R' U2 L D' B2 U B R' U' F
solution:
223: R * D L' D' F D R D2 //8
233-1C: B' R2 B R' B R B //7
L3C: R2 D' R F' R' F R' D R' //9
insert at *: R2 D L' D' R2 D L D' //8-7
final solution:
R' D L' D' R2 F D R D2 B' R2 B R' B R B R2 D' R F' R' F R' D R' //25f


#3


Spoiler



scramble: R' U' F R' B2 R D2 R2 U2 B2 L2 D R B R' F2 R U2 L D2 R2 B R' U' F
solution:
222: R U B' R' B2 * //5
pseudo TEC: D2 F D' F' R' D' //6
TEC: NISS F //1
233: NISS U' R' U R U' R' U //7
L3C: U R F R' F' U' R2 //7-1
insert at *：F' U' F D2 F' U F D2 //8-3
final solution:
R U B' R' B2 F' U' F D2 F' U F2 D' F' R' D' U' R' U R U' R' U2 R F R' F' U' R2 F' //30f


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## Laura O (Apr 13, 2016)

From time to time the insertion finder uses a special kind of edge commutators I do not understand.
Example:
L F R U' R' F' L' B' U B

One thing I noticed is that you can swap moves, so the commutator above can be written like this:
F (R U' R') F' L' (B' U B) L

This way the structure is much clearer, but I still have no idea how and why they work.
Anyone?


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 14, 2016)

Laura O said:


> This way the structure is much clearer, but I still have no idea how and why they work.
> Anyone?


It is a cyclic shift ABA' CB'C'


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## Hssandwich (Apr 14, 2016)

Can anyone find any decent insertions for this?
B2 U2 F2 D' F2 U L2 U B2 U R' D2 B R' D2 R B U' B' U'


To 3c: U F R2 F’ L’ F R2 F’ R L’ D R' B2 L' D L D' B L2 B2 U B U'
I had 16 to 4c, but I could only find insertions that could cancel one move, so I did that and now I'm left with 3c...


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## irontwig (Apr 15, 2016)

Optimal for your L3C skeleton is 29:

U F R2 F' L' [@1] F R2 F' R L' D R' B2 L' D L D' B L2 B2 U B U'
Insert at @1: L' B2 L F' L' B2 L F
Fewest moves: 29. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: U F R2 F' L2 B2 L F' L' B2 L F2 R2 F' R L' D R' B2 L' D L D' B L2 B2 U B U'

However the cruel truth is that, if you had done a different cycle at the same place you'd get a 26:

U [@1] L2 R D R' B2 L' D L D' B L2 B2 U B U'
Insert at @1: F L' B L F' L' B' L
After the 1st insertion: U F L' B L F' L' B' [@2] L' R D R' B2 L' D L D' B L2 B2 U B U'
Insert at @2: B L B' R' B L' B' R
Fewest moves: 26. 6 moves cancelled
The final solution: U F L' B L F' B' R' B L' B' R2 L' D R' B2 L' D L D' B L2 B2 U B U'


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## irontwig (Apr 15, 2016)

Laura O said:


> From time to time the insertion finder uses a special kind of edge commutators I do not understand.
> Example:
> L F R U' R' F' L' B' U B
> 
> ...



God damn, why do edges have to be so complicated? Speaking of IF, is there a way to recognize 10 move 3C3E cases?


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## Hssandwich (Apr 15, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Optimal for your L3C skeleton is 29:
> 
> U F R2 F' L' [@1] F R2 F' R L' D R' B2 L' D L D' B L2 B2 U B U'
> Insert at @1: L' B2 L F' L' B2 L F
> ...


Ahh thanks, IF couldn't come up with anything.


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## porkynator (Apr 16, 2016)

I have two differet nice solutions for this week's weekly scramble.

Scramble: U L2 F2 B R2 L B2 U' R2 B' U2 F' B R F2 D2 L R' B' U2


Spoiler



"Standard" solution with nice ending (24 HTM)


Spoiler



(B2 U') //Square (2/2)
B2 //Another square (1/3)
U' F' U2 R' //XXcross (4/7)
F L' D2 L F' D //All but 4c4e (6/13)
(R F R U2 R) D2 (R' U2 R' F' R') //Conjugate and solve (11/24)


Corners first/domino solution (24 HTM)


Spoiler



B' * U' L F' //Orient corners (4/4)
* = B2 D2 B2 D2 B2 D2 //Domino reduction (5/9)
U2 R2 D' F2 L2 U L2 F2
B2 U' B2 U B2 U B2


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## Cale S (Apr 17, 2016)

27 for Weekly FMC with inserted T perm:


Spoiler



Scramble: D F B U2 R L' U' B2 L' D' B' L2 F2 R2 U' F L' D2 F2 B'

B // square
(B U') // roux block
(B' R B L2) // 2x2x3
U F' U2 R U // EO
F2 (L') L' // cool thing to F2L - 1
R' F R' F' R2 // 2c2e

B U F' U2 R U F2 L' R' F R' F' R2 L' B' R' B U @ B' 
@ = U' B2 D L2 D' B2 R2 D' F2 D R2 

Final solution: B U F' U2 R U F2 L' R' F R' F' R2 L' B' R' B' D L2 D' B2 R2 D' F2 D R2 B' (27)



and the 25 I submitted:


Spoiler



Scramble: D F B U2 R L' U' B2 L' D' B' L2 F2 R2 U' F L' D2 F2 B'

B // square
(B U') // roux block
(L2) F' L' U L // 2x2x3
R' D' F D F // pseudo F2L - 1
R2 F2 L' F R F' L // L3E

skeleton: B F' @ L' U L R' D' F D F R2 F2 L' F R F' L' U B'
@ = [F R' F', M]

Final solution: B R' F' L' R U R U' R' U R' L D' F D F R2 F2 L' F R F' L' U B' (25)




22, 28, 28, 27, 26, 23, 24, 27, 24, 23, 23, 26, 26, 26, 26, 28, 28, 24, 25, 25, 29, 24, 24, 25, 27, 26, 28, 23, 25, 24, 26, 24, 26, 25, 23, 25

currently at 25.10 avg12, hopefully I can roll the 27 next week


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## irontwig (Apr 18, 2016)

porkynator said:


> I have two differet nice solutions for this week's weekly scramble.
> 
> Scramble: U L2 F2 B R2 L B2 U' R2 B' U2 F' B R F2 D2 L R' B' U2
> 
> ...



Cool solutions, but didn't you orient something else too in your first step? Cool swap I just learned from IF:


Spoiler



B2 U2 F2 D2 F2 U2


.


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## porkynator (Apr 18, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Cool solutions, but didn't you orient something else too in your first step? Cool swap I just learned from IF:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Yes, I oriented edges too, and that's actually how I found that start. But for a domino solution I think "orienting edges" should refer to reduction to <U,D,R2,F2,L2,B2> and not just <U,D,R,L,F2,B2>. It's really not a big deal though.


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 21, 2016)

hello I'm new to FMC, just started this week. here is my PB from today


Spoiler



Scramble: U L2 R2 D2 B2 L2 U' B2 U B2 R2 F' U' B2 L' D L F' R2 D2 R
Solution:
B2 R'// square
L D'* U B D L U2 R' U2 D2 // 2x2x3
D L D'// square
L' B2 U B2 U' L' B2 L'//L3C
*=[D', R' U R]
29 moves
don't know if the insertion is optimal


and one from forum comp


Spoiler



D2 F' U2 F D2 L2 F D2 B D2 R B F2 L U' B2 F' L U' L

F2 D' L B'// square
R F R L' U L2 F2 D'// F2L-1
R2 B R' B' D B' D2 R' D R B2 R' B' *R' //Make pair and VHLS(bad)
*[ U F' U',B']
32 moves
I found a really fast solution to L3C, But i didn't write it down and can't remember it


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 21, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Cool swap I just learned from IF:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


or (R2 F2)*3


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## shadowslice e (Apr 21, 2016)

So if you do domino redux (I mean the {R2, L2, F2, B2, U, D} group) what good ways are there of finishing off the solve?


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## irontwig (Apr 21, 2016)

You can just try to solve U and D without worrying about E and then do a insertion for those edges. You could also try to solve the corners or the edges to make a skeleton.


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## irontwig (Apr 22, 2016)

Yet another edge cycle I learned from IF: [U,F' M2 F]


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## penguinz7 (Apr 22, 2016)

Random 24 move FMC
L2 F2 U2 B2 U' F2 U R2 F2 D U2 L' D B2 U' L B2 U' B' D' R


Spoiler



D //pair
(D' R' U R' F2) //2x2
(R2 U R U) //2x2x3
B R B' R //F2L-1
R B' R' B U' B U B' U' B' U // L3C

Skeleton: D B R B' R2 B' R' B U' B U # B' U' B' R' U' R2 F2 R U' R D 22 moves

Insert at # U' B' D' B U B' D B
Cancels 6 

Final Solution:
D B R B' R2 B' R' B U' D' B U B' D U B' R' U' R2 F2 R U' R D
24 moves


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 23, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Yet another edge cycle I learned from IF: [U,F' M2 F]


how the alg works
[U, B' E2 B]
=[U, b' E2 b]
=[U, F' M2 F]
other algs
[D B' D', M2]
[S U M', U]-useless for FMC


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## TMarshall (Apr 23, 2016)

F' U' B2 U' B2 L2 F2 D2 B2 R2 D' U R' B U2 L D' F2 D2 B R'

Can anyone find a good solution with this scramble? The best I could find was a 7 move 2x2 and 12 move 2x2x3, and nothing good after that.


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## unsolved (Apr 23, 2016)

TMarshall said:


> F' U' B2 U' B2 L2 F2 D2 B2 R2 D' U R' B U2 L D' F2 D2 B R'
> 
> Can anyone find a good solution with this scramble? The best I could find was a 7 move 2x2 and 12 move 2x2x3, and nothing good after that.



Well you can get the corners in 9:

B U2 B L' U R U F2 R'

I'll see what else I can come up with.


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## Cale S (Apr 24, 2016)

TMarshall said:


> F' U' B2 U' B2 L2 F2 D2 B2 R2 D' U R' B U2 L D' F2 D2 B R'
> 
> Can anyone find a good solution with this scramble? The best I could find was a 7 move 2x2 and 12 move 2x2x3, and nothing good after that.



(R') F' R' D' // 2x2x2
(R B R' B' R B' R') B // 2x2x3
B' U B U2 L' // F2L - 1 + EO
L' U2 L U' // 3c3e

skeleton: F' R' D' U B U2 @ L2 U2 L U' R B R' B R B'
@ = U B L2 B' F U2 ^ F' U' 
^ = [U2, B D2 B']

Final solution: F' R' D' U B U' B L2 F D2 B' U2 B D2 B' F' U' L2 U2 L U' R B R' B R B' - *27 moves*


Insertion Finder got a 29 with my 3c3e skeleton hehe


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## unsolved (Apr 24, 2016)

The best I could do using my 5x5x5 program was 31 moves with 2 edges left to orient. It did solve the cube finally, but it needed slice moves, which are naturally not present on the 3x3x3.

This program, at present, can only "see" 12 moves deep. Watching it convert an unknown position into one in which it could solve was rather amusing.

B U2 B L' U R U F2 R' 
// corners in 9 moves, simple database lookup

L' F B2 R' U D' F' B2 L U F B' U D B' D2 R2 D2 B' U' D' B2 
// here the program is just one alg away from finishing, but it only has an incomplete set of algs computed so far, so it can't resolve this!

R2 3U R' U2 R 3U' R2 3U2 R U2 R' 3U2 
// those prior 12 moves net the most progress given it still can't solve the cube.

2U R 2B2 R' B2 R 2B2 R' B2 2U' 
// a creative try, considering it still lacked the alg to complete the cube

2F R 2U R' U2 R 2U' R' U2 2F'


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## irontwig (Apr 25, 2016)

Cale S said:


> (R') F' R' D' // 2x2x2
> (R B R' B' R B' R') B // 2x2x3
> B' U B U2 L' // F2L - 1 + EO
> L' U2 L U' // 3c3e
> ...



Cool, did you see that you would the corner cycle would cancel nicely, or was it just something you tried since the regular 7-mover result in 29 move total? Continuing the theme of edges being difficult, has anybody here used [R B L F,U]?


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## Torch (Apr 25, 2016)

I found an interesting 2C2E insertion for the speedsolving weekly comp scramble, though I didn't use it in my submitted solution because I was running out of time and couldn't figure out if I had written it down correctly. Here's the solution:



Spoiler



Scramble: D2 F' U2 F D2 L2 F D2 B D2 R B F2 L U' B2 F' L U' L

(B' D B F' L F' D')//2x2x2
(R B' R B)//2x2x3
L F L'//ALL THE BLOCKS
(U L' U' L)//F2L-1
(R' F D' F' D F' R)//2C2E

Skeleton: L F L' R' F D' F D F' R L' U L [1] U' B' R' B R' D F L' F B' D' B

[1]: L' U' F U F' U' F' U2 L U' F' U' F U

Solution: L F L' R' F D' F D F' R L' F U F' U' F' U2 L U' F' U' F B' R' B R' D F L' F B' D' B (33)

I saw that a T perm inserted at that would solve the 2C2E, but wouldn't cancel moves. Then I looked at mirroring the T perm, which still didn't cancel. Finally I inverted the mirrored T perm, which has the same effect obviously, and it canceled 6 moves!


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## Attila (Apr 26, 2016)

Scramble from previous weekly FMC: 
D F B U2 R L' U' B2 L' D' B' L2 F2 R2 U' F L' D2 F2 B'

I found a nice CF continuation for this Roux FB start:
B (B U')


Spoiler



B (B U') Roux FB,
F2 L2 R B orient corners and 6 edges,
R B2 R B2 L2 F2 R' /F' D2 R' L B2 D'/ L B2 domino solution with /inserted LSE/.
Final solution: 
B F2 L2 R B R B2 R B2 L2 F2 R' F' D2 R' L B2 D' L B2 U B' 22 moves.


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## Robert-Y (Apr 26, 2016)

Attila: What did you do to obtain the domino solution with inserted LSE? Can you please explain it in more detail? Did you force an easy LSE case by trying out different ways to solve the domino? I'm really lost with that...


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## Attila (Apr 26, 2016)

Robert-Y said:


> Attila: What did you do to obtain the domino solution with inserted LSE? Can you please explain it in more detail? Did you force an easy LSE case by trying out different ways to solve the domino? I'm really lost with that...





Spoiler



So, after corners orientation, I try out a few different way, which will permute corners:
R' B2 R B2 R' B2 R' maybe this is the shortest permutation, but 3 oriented edges moved to wrong places.
Another way: R B2 R' B2 R B2 R B2 it seems better, but the 6th edge still wrong,
Finally: R B2 R B2(square on R face!) R2 B2 R' B2 R B2 a longer permutation, but 6 edges solved.
For better LSE insertion, I changed this 10-move permutation: 
R B2 R B2 L2 F2 R' prepare LSE,
instead of F2, now insert F' D2 R' L B2 D'
then L B2 finish.
The easy LSE case I not forced this time, I was just a bit lucky.


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## Kit Clement (May 2, 2016)

For ongoing weekly FMC:



Spoiler



Easily the most comical FMC attempt I've ever done. The skeleton is silly, and I used a 12 move edge comm that cancelled 7 moves for my insertion, which beat out IF.

Scramble: B2 D' F L2 U' B R' L2 U D R2 L2 D R2 L' U2 L' B F2 R'

L' F2 B U R' //2x2x2
D' B D U' (1) B2 U2 //2x2x3
L' B L2 B L B2 //L3E

D' U L' D U' B2 D' U L D U' B2 (cancels 7)

Final: L' F2 B U R' D' B L' D U' B2 D' U L D U L' B L2 B L B2 (22)


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## sqAree (May 3, 2016)

scramble: U' F2 U F2 L2 B2 F2 D' U B' D' R B2 L2 D' F2 D B2 L

L U' R2 //2x2x2
U B D2 U' B2 //2x2x3
L2 F' D F L' D2 L2 //F2L-1

So I found this nice start and ended up with a 39 move solution (random last slots, short OLL, U perm with cancellations).

Anyone sees something promising?
I thought the usual way to proceed would be something like this:

D L D L' //pair
D F' D' F //EO
D L D2 L' D2 //F2L + edges

Inserting two corner 3-cycles leads to 37 moves which is pretty disappointing as well.


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## Torch (May 3, 2016)

sqAree said:


> scramble: U' F2 U F2 L2 B2 F2 D' U B' D' R B2 L2 D' F2 D B2 L
> 
> L U' R2 //2x2x2
> U B D2 U' B2 //2x2x3
> ...


You can get to last 4 corners like this: L D2 L' D' L' F L F' (notice the first move cancels with your part of the solution). Insertion finder says you can get 29 moves with that.

However, I also noticed that you could solve the same F2L-1 in fewer moves like this:
L U' R2//2x2x2
L2 D' B' D' *B2*//2x2x3
*B *D' B' L D2 *L*//F2L-1

and continue to L4C with:
*L* D L' D F' D F D//L4C

which saves two moves over the other solution. Always look for different ways to put together the same blocks!


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## Cale S (May 4, 2016)

sqAree said:


> scramble: U' F2 U F2 L2 B2 F2 D' U B' D' R B2 L2 D' F2 D B2 L



L U' R2 // 2x2x2
U B U' D2 B2 // 2x2x3
B' L' B // F2L - 1 
D' B' U' L' U L2 B L' D F' D F @ D' // to L3C
@ = [F', D B D']

Final solution: L U' R2 U B U' D2 B L' B D' B' U' L' U L2 B L' D F' D2 B D' F D B' D2 (27)

edit: 
L U' R2 // 2x2x2
U B U' D2 B2 // 2x2x3
B' L' B // F2L - 1 
D' (D') // shift
(L2 B' L' B) // square + form F2L pair
(L' B' U2 F U' B' U F' U2 B2) // WV to LL skip

Final solution: L U' R2 U B U' D2 B L' B D' B2 U2 F U' B U F' U2 B L B' L B L2 D (26)


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## Cale S (May 4, 2016)

really weird solution (even for me) for Weekly FMC


Spoiler



Scramble: B2 D' F L2 U' B R' L2 U D R2 L2 D R2 L' U2 L' B F2 R'

B' (R' D F) // EO
(R2 U' R') // 2 squares
R2 U2 F2 // 2x2x3
(D' L D) // all but 6 pieces

B' R2 # U2 F2 D' L' D R @ U R2 F' D' R

@ = R' D R D2 L' R' D R D' L D2 // 2c2e ZBLL alg to leave 3 edges
# = [R2, S'] // edge cycle

Final solution: B2 F D2 F' B U2 F2 D' L' D2 R D2 R' L' D R D' L D2 U R2 F' D' R (24)


btw my Weekly FMC avg12 is at 24.90 now
28, 23, 25, 24, 26, 24, 26, 25, 23, 25, 27, 24


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## irontwig (May 4, 2016)

sqAree said:


> scramble: U' F2 U F2 L2 B2 F2 D' U B' D' R B2 L2 D' F2 D B2 L
> 
> L U' R2 //2x2x2
> U B D2 U' B2 //2x2x3
> ...



L U' R2 U B D2 U' B2 L2 F' D F L' D2 B D B' D' L' D2 L' D' (22)

lolcale

L U' R2 //2x2x2
U B D2 U' B2 //2x2x3
L2 F' D F L' D2 L2 //F2L-1
L // Pseudo F2L
L B D B' D' L' D2 //LL
L' D' //Undo Pseudo


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## sqAree (May 5, 2016)

Torch said:


> You can get to last 4 corners like this: L D2 L' D' L' F L F' (notice the first move cancels with your part of the solution). Insertion finder says you can get 29 moves with that.
> 
> However, I also noticed that you could solve the same F2L-1 in fewer moves like this:
> L U' R2//2x2x2
> ...



Thanks a lot! I was so stuck with the idea of inserting the last F2L pair while somehow solving the edges that I didn't think of just solving an LL block and inserting a lonely edge instead of a pair. I will think of this in future attempts.



Cale S said:


> L U' R2 // 2x2x2
> U B U' D2 B2 // 2x2x3
> B' L' B // F2L - 1
> D' B' U' L' U L2 B L' D F' D F @ D' // to L3C
> ...



L3C in your first solve is difficult for me to follow and NISS is still obscure to me and I don't know WV algs. I guess from this I just take a reminder to really examine all possibilities to extend the blocks because I probably had a white bias.



irontwig said:


> L U' R2 U B D2 U' B2 L2 F' D F L' D2 B D B' D' L' D2 L' D' (22)
> 
> L U' R2 //2x2x2
> U B D2 U' B2 //2x2x3
> ...



Proud that the best solution uses exactly my way of blockbuilding. 
I think this is the most lucky solver I've ever encountered.
And it helps me to understand pseudo stuff.


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## Cale S (May 5, 2016)

found a 23 for the Weekly FMC using my 24 start


Spoiler



B' (R' D F) // EO
(R2 U' R') // two squares
R2 U2 F2 // 2x2x3 + EO + blocks
D' L' D2 L' D' (D L') // to G perm (or 3c3e)

B' R2 U2 F2 @ D' L' D2 L' D' L D' R U R2 F' D' R
@ = [S', D2] // edge cycle

B' R2 U2 F' B' L2 B % F' D L' D2 L' D' L D' R U R2 F' D' R
% = [B' L2 B, R2] // corner cycle

Final solution: B' R2 U2 F' R2 B' L2 B R2 F' D L' D2 L' D' L D' R U R2 F' D' R (23)


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## mycube (May 9, 2016)

Hey everyone, this is the FMC scramble from Hessen Open:
R' U' F L2 F D2 B' L2 B' L2 B' D2 U2 R' U2 L2 F2 U' R' B' D F' L' U' R' U' F
inverse:
F' U R U L F D' B R U F2 L2 U2 R U2 D2 B L2 B L2 B D2 F' L2 F' U R

And a very promising start:
R2 B' U L (extra move in the totally obvious 2x2x2: R2 U L)
switch:
R' B' U' R2 - F2L-1 in 8 Moves, if you switch again you get a free pair

My Solution was:
another switch:
R U' B U' B' U' for 5 Corners in 14 moves (sadly just 5 moves cancellation)
-> 25 move solution. I know Jan found another 25 with this start, but is anyone able to find a better solution?

Also a funny start:
R2 B' U L U R2 U B R - F2L-1 in 9 Moves + freepair

Would be nice if you guys try it!


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## irontwig (May 9, 2016)

Coming back from the Swedish Decathlon Challenge got me thinking that it might be a good idea to get some earmuffs or whatnot. This is because that especially during the first attempt there was a bunch of pretty loud kids in the same room, as well as organizational staff chit-chatting behind the competitors. Of course I don't know for sure if I would do any better with the same scramble with no distractions whatsoever, but why have more distractions than necessary. I do know that a bunch of BLDers use some sort of ear protection to block out sound, but does any decent FMCers use them too?


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## mycube (May 9, 2016)

irontwig said:


> I do know that a bunch of BLDers use some sort of ear protection to block out sound, but does any decent FMCers use them too?



I know that Emanuel Rheinert is doing it as well as I do


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## irontwig (May 9, 2016)

Nice, you wear glasses too right? Do you have any recommendations when taking that into account?


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## mycube (May 9, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Nice, you wear glasses too right? Do you have any recommendations when taking that into account?



Not really.. For my overear-headphones I can't wear my glasses while using them, but for my earmuffs I have no problems wearing my glasses. I also don't think they are special earmuffs, just standard ones


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## Cale S (May 9, 2016)

mycube said:


> Hey everyone, this is the FMC scramble from Hessen Open:
> R' U' F L2 F D2 B' L2 B' L2 B' D2 U2 R' U2 L2 F2 U' R' B' D F' L' U' R' U' F
> inverse:
> F' U R U L F D' B R U F2 L2 U2 R U2 D2 B L2 B L2 B D2 F' L2 F' U R
> ...



using your second start:

R2 B' U L U R2 U B R // F2L - 1
F' L F @ U' L' U2 L' U2 L // VLS to U perm
@ = [S, U2]

Final solution: R2 B' U L U R2 U B R F' L B L2 B' F U L' U2 L' U2 L (21)


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## Cale S (May 11, 2016)

25 for Weekly FMC


Spoiler



Scramble: 
U F' L' R2 B' D2 U2 B R2 F' L B' D' R F B D' F' B U

(L2) B2 L' B2 // square
U L2 // 2x2x2
D' R' (D2) // xxcross + corner
B L U B U' L' // insert edge + EO
F2 B' U' B' U B2 F2 // multislot to L3C

skeleton: B2 L' B2 U L2 D' @ R' B L U B U' L' F2 B' U' B' U B2 F2 D2 L2
@ = [D L D', R']

Final solution: B2 L' B2 U L' D' R' D L' D' B L U B U' L' F2 B' U' B' U B2 F2 D2 L2 (25)


avg12 is 24.70 now
23, 25, 24, 26, 24, 26, 25, 23, 25, 27, 24, 25


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## irontwig (May 11, 2016)

24.7, is that UWR? Pretty damn good either way. I had problems with that scramble (encountered parity all the time), so I had to do a 2C2E insertion to not DNF. By the way, perhaps we shouldn't call both the Berkeley FMC and the forum competition "The weekly"?


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## mycube (May 11, 2016)

irontwig said:


> 24.7, is that UWR?



Sébastien already got a 24.3 (with a 21.00 mean of 3) 
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/the-fmc-thread.13599/page-148#post-1054962


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## Bubtore (May 12, 2016)

mycube said:


> Hey everyone, this is the FMC scramble from Hessen Open:
> R' U' F L2 F D2 B' L2 B' L2 B' D2 U2 R' U2 L2 F2 U' R' B' D F' L' U' R' U' F
> inverse:
> F' U R U L F D' B R U F2 L2 U2 R U2 D2 B L2 B L2 B D2 F' L2 F' U R
> Would be nice if you guys try it!



R2 U L // 222
(F R F' R' B') // 223
(U R2 U') // F2L-1
(R2 F R2 F' R2 F R F' * R2) // L3C

* F D F' U F D' F' U'

Solution // R2 U L R2 U F D F' U' F D' R' F' R2 F R2 F' R2 U R2 U' B R F R' F' - 26

That's a nice scamble but I stopped after 25 minutes since it's already a bit late.


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## Hssandwich (May 13, 2016)

A 29 move FMC solution with edges first (kinda):


Spoiler



U' R' F R2 F R' B R F' L B2 D2 R U2 D2 L F2 D2 L D2


F // 2x1x1
R * B L2 U // Xcross
F’ R F R’ F’ R F R’// edges (to 6c)
NB: I could have done R F' R' F to solve edges, but this 8 moves solved an extra corner rather than the 4 moves to 7c.
YGR->YBR->GOW

*R U’ R’ D2 R U R’ D2(1 cancelled)

F R2 U’ R’ D2 R U R’ D2 B L2 U @ F’ £ R F R’ F’ R F R’ (20)

WBO->RWG->YBO

@ U L U’ R’ U L’ U’ R (1 cancelled)
£ F U B U’ F’ U B’ U’ (3 cancelled)

F R2 U’ R’ D2 R U R’ D2 B & L2 U2 B U’ F’ U B’ U’ R F R’ F’ R F R’ (24)

WGR->OYB->WGO
& U’ R’ U L2 U’ R U L2(3 cancelled)

F R2 U’ R’ D2 R U R’ D2 B U’ R’ U L2 U’ R U’ B U’ F’ U B’ U’ R F R’ F’ R F R’ (29 moves)


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## irontwig (May 14, 2016)

Why spend four extra moves to go from a nice an well behaved 7 cycle to some messy 2+4 cycle? Leave 7 corners instead and try *=R' F' R B2 R' F R B2


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## CyanSandwich (May 16, 2016)

I had this skeleton for the weekly comp. Didn't use it because a 3C3E in 16 was probably better.
I wanted to check it on IF, but apparently it can't do 4 insertions.

Does "if the number of insertions is more than 4" actually mean "if the number of insertions is 4 or more"?



Spoiler: Scramble+Skeleton



scramble: D' R2 B2 D2 L2 B2 D L2 B2 D' U2 B' R2 F L' U' F2 L' F U2

L' U
F L2 D2 F D2 F2
D' L D' //2 flipped edges+4c (11)

Shortest (usable) skeleton I've had.


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## BQ (May 18, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> Does "if the number of insertions is more than 4" actually mean "if the number of insertions is 4 or more"?


Yes. Long long ago it supported for 4 insertions. Since it always cost too much time and resource on the server, I changed the maximum number of insertions to 3. But I forgot to change the text.

I've searched it for you manually here: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/f658ca5f34c393539a1cc605c9dde939.cube


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## CyanSandwich (May 18, 2016)

BQ said:


> Yes. Long long ago it supported for 4 insertions. Since it always cost too much time and resource on the server, I changed the maximum number of insertions to 3. But I forgot to change the text.
> 
> I've searched it for you manually here: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/f658ca5f34c393539a1cc605c9dde939.cube


Thanks for the answer, and for searching it manually!

23 is surprising. Although I doubt I could have even gotten sub-27.


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## BQ (May 20, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> Thanks for the answer, and for searching it manually!
> 
> 23 is surprising. Although I doubt I could have even gotten sub-27.


Hmm, in fact, since I selected the "other" algorithm, there're some insertions like "L2 F L2 F'", which is not so common. I've searched for only 3-cycle algorithms. See here: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7048d95774ae1cade5320b1933157d3c.cube
It's 27 moves.


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## CyanSandwich (May 20, 2016)

BQ said:


> Hmm, in fact, since I selected the "other" algorithm, there're some insertions like "L2 F L2 F'", which is not so common. I've searched for only 3-cycle algorithms. See here: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7048d95774ae1cade5320b1933157d3c.cube
> It's 27 moves.


Oh cool. Definitely couldn't have gotten sub-27 then


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## Cale S (May 22, 2016)

26 for Weekly FMC with no cancelled moves from insertion  



Spoiler



scramble: F' D2 L R F B2 L' R2 B R' B2 L R' B' D' U L2 R2 D L'

B U2 // square 
F R' // 2x2x2
B (D' B) // 2x2x3
L' D2 B (B) // F2L - 1
F' D' F // F2L
F' R' D' R D F D2 // L3C

B U2 F R' B L' D2 B ^ F' D' R' @ D' R D F D2 B2 D

optimal insertion is 8, you can get it with [F R2 F', L2] at ^ or with [R, D2 L D2 L' D2] at @ (lol 12 move comm being optimal)


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## Kit Clement (May 24, 2016)

PB'd the weekly with a 19 move solution. Ryan and I found this solution independently while we were on Discord (he found it about 5~10 minutes before I did though).



Spoiler



Scramble: F' D2 L R F B2 L' R2 B R' B2 L R' B' D' U L2 R2 D L'
I: F' R B' //2x2x2
N: L B' U B F2 //add two 2x2x1s and a pair on the same F2L
I: L F U' L' U L F U' F' //L3C

Skel: L B' U B F' (1) U F' L' U' L U F' L' B R' F

1: F D F' U F D' F' U'

Final: L B' U B D F' U F D' F2 L' U' L U F' L' B R' F (19)


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## TeddyKGB (May 24, 2016)

Kit Clement said:


> PB'd the weekly with a 19 move solution. Ryan and I found this solution independently while we were on Discord (he found it about 5~10 minutes before I did though).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who's this Ryan guy? he sounds interesting...


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## irontwig (May 24, 2016)

Kit Clement said:


> PB'd the weekly with a 19 move solution. Ryan and I found this solution independently while we were on Discord (he found it about 5~10 minutes before I did though).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just knew I was missing something, got a 27 on that scramble. Speaking of which I also got a 27 on the *other weekly*. Maybe we should agree upon what to call these two?


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## Cale S (May 24, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Speaking of which I also got a 27 on the *other weekly*. Maybe we should agree upon what to call these two?



I just call them Weekly FMC and Weekly Comp, but I really only do one


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## kbrune (May 25, 2016)

Where is the weekly FMC ? in forum comp thread? Or is it from the weekly comp thread?


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## irontwig (May 25, 2016)

kbrune said:


> Where is the weekly FMC ? in forum comp thread? Or is it from the weekly comp thread?



This one: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/
...or this one: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/weekly-competition-2016-21.61035/
...or maybe even this one: http://speedcube.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=5795


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## okayama (May 29, 2016)

I seem to miss posting my solution for Weekly FMC this week (#126), so here it is:
Scramble: F' D2 L R F B2 L' R2 B R' B2 L R' B' D' U L2 R2 D L'
Solution: L U F B L F' D2 F D F2 D2 F D F' R' L D2 R L' F2 D F2 L2 R' F (25 moves)


Spoiler



Firstly I found the following solution (28 moves):

Pre-scramble: L2 R' F

F2L minus 1 slot: L U F B L
All but 3 corners: D' F' D' F D' F' D2 B' D F D' B
Correction: L2 * R' F

Insert at *: B2 U' F' U B2 U' F U

No move cancels 

Another attempt (27 moves):

All but 5 corners and 2 edges: L U F B * L' R' F
All but 5 corners: U' (U B' U R2 D' F D R2 U2 B) U
Insert at *: F' R' B' R F + R' B R
Insert at +: D2 R' U2 R D2 R' U2 R

Final solution (25 moves):

Pre-scramble: F L2 R' F

F2L minus 1 slot: L U F B L F'
F2L minus 1 edge: D2 F D F'
All but 3 edges: F' D2 F D F' * D F
Correction: F L2 R' F

Insert at *: R' L D2 R L' F2


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## Cale S (May 29, 2016)

pretty cool solution for current Weekly FMC


Spoiler



Scramble: L2 D' F2 U R' D F' L' R' U B2 F' L U B R B F2 U' B2

(D' R' D R') // 2x2x2
(L2 U F U) // xxcross
D R' F R D' F' // 3e4c

D R' F R D' F' U' F' U' @ L2 R D' R D

@ = U2 R U2 R' U2 R U2 R'   

L3C skeleton:
D R' F R D' F' U' F' U R ^ U2 R' U2 R U2 L2 D' R D
^ = [R2, U L U']

Final solution: D R' F R D' F' U' F' U R' U L U' R2 U L' U R' U2 R U2 L2 D' R D (25)

I was hoping the insertion would cancel more, but at least it cancelled something unlike last week

I also couldn't find anything with the 2 move pseudo 2x2x2


rolls avg25 to 25.14


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## irontwig (May 29, 2016)

Cool, I got a 24 on that scramble. Did you try


Spoiler



any EO starts?


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## Cale S (May 29, 2016)

irontwig said:


> Cool, I got a 24 on that scramble. Did you try
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



The 2 move pseudo 2x2x2 orients all but 2 edges and trying to modify it to orient all didn't really work, but I'll look at some more


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## Bubtore (May 30, 2016)

I tried those scramble with Emilien Fabre and he has destroyed me ...

http://iwca.jp/competition/scrambles/competitionId/FMCLatinAmerica2016/eventId/333fm

1. S // D2 R2 U R2 U' F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 F' U' B F' L D' B2 F2 R'
I // R F2 B2 D L' F B' U F R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 U R2 U' R2 D2

(D2 L) // EO (2)
(D L2 B D2 B D R2 L2) // 2x2x3 (8)
(U' B2 U B U2 B' U) // F2Ls (7)
(D B' U' B D' B U B U' B U) // (11) solved

Solution // U' B' U B' U' B' D B' U B D' U' B U2 B' U' B2 U L2 R2 D' B' D2 B' L2 D' L' D2 - 28 HTM


2. S // U' R' U L B L' D R' F' U D R L2 B2 R B2 D2 L F2
I // F2 L' D2 B2 R' B2 L2 R' D' U' F R D' L B' L' U' R U

(D2 R D L2) // '2x2x2' (4)
L' // 2x2x2 (1)
(R' B2 D2 L B2 L' B D' R) // ? (9)
B' // ?? (1)
(D' R D' R' B D B R' B' D') / LL skip (10)

Solution // L' B' D B R B' D' B' R D R' D R' D B' L B2 L' D2 B2 R L2 D' R' D2


3. S // R' D R' B R' B2 D2 L U2 D L2 D R2 U R2 L2 F2 L2 D'
I // D L2 F2 L2 R2 U' R2 D' L2 D' U2 L' D2 B2 R B' R D' R

(D2 R2 B') // EO (3)
(L' D' F2 U' D') // Trolol (5)
(L U L U' + L F2 L) // 2E2C (7)

+ U L' U B2 D' R D B2 U2 L

Solution // L' F2 L2 U2 B2 D' R' D B2 U2 L' D U F2 D L B R2 D2 - 19

24 mo3 for him !


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## Attila (Jun 1, 2016)

Scramble (from example solve thread):
F2 R2 U2 L2 D' B2 D F2 R2 L D R U2 L D L' B' F R2

I found this 19-move skeleton:
((L U2 B F2 L' B) 
(U L D U' F') 
(U' B' U2 D2 F)
(U'B2 D) 
Can anyone find a good insertion?


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## porkynator (Jun 2, 2016)

I have found this insertions using conjugates:
(L U2 B F2 L' * B)
(U L D U' F')
(U' B' U2 D2 + F)
(U'B2 D)

* = M'
+ = F' R L2 U M U' L2 R' F

But Insertion Finder does a better job with commutators
L U2 B F2 L' B U [@1] L D U' F' U' B' U2 D2 F U' B2 D
Insert at @1: F' L U' D F' R F U D' L'
After the 1st insertion: L U2 B F2 L' B U F' [@2] L U' D F' R U' B' U2 D2 F U' B2 D
Insert at @2: F U2 L2 D2 B D2 L2 U2
Fewest moves: 26. 11 moves cancelled
The final solution: L U2 B F2 L' B U' L2 D2 B D2 L2 U2 L U' D F' R U' B' U2 D2 F U' B2 D


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## tseitsei (Jun 3, 2016)

Nice result for a first FMC after a long pause (22moves I think 3rd best result ever for me). Berkeley weekly ongoing comp.


Spoiler



Scramble: L2 D' F2 U R' D F' L' R' U B2 F' L U B R B F2 U' B2
Solution: F' R L2 U2 B' L' B L U B U2 B' U B2 U2 B' D' B U2 B2 R D (22 moves)

Explanation:
F' R //2x2 block on normal (2/2)
on inverse with premoves R' F:
D' R' B D //pseudo 2x2x3 (4/6)
Add premove L2 R' F to fix pseudoness (1/7)
still on inverse premoves :
B' U' B //1x2x3 block!!! (3/10)
Here I tried a lot of stuff to leave just 3 corners. Finally I added one more premove U2 (1/11)
Still on inverse with premoves U2 L2 R' F:
U2 B' U' // EO plus loads of blocks! (3/14)
L' B' L B // All but 3C (4/18)

So all together skeleton on normal:
F' R L2 U2 B' L' B L U B U2 B' U B D' [1] B' R D (18)

[1] = D B U2 B' D' B U2 B' // 4 moves cancel (4/22).


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## goodatthis (Jun 3, 2016)

A good skeleton, but a bad insertion:

Scramble: D U R2 B2 F2 U2 L2 R' D B2 F D' B' F2 D2 R F' R

Inverse: R' F R' D2 F2 B D F' B2 D' R L2 U2 F2 B2 R2 U' D'

B2 U R' B2 * // 2x2x2
U' F2 R' U' R // 2x2x3
F R F2 U' // F2L-1
Switch
L F2 L' // square
F' L F L2 U L U' F' // to L3C (24 move skeleton)

* = B U2 B' D2 B U2 B' D2 (according to IF, this is optimal, despite only cancelling 1 move)

Final solution: B2 U R' B' U2 B' D2 B U2 B' D2 U' F2 R' U' R F R F2 U' F U L' U' L2 F' L' F L F2 L' (31)

On the good side, it's my first time using insertions, I finally got them to work, despite somehow cycling the three corners incorrectly multiple times before using a different commutator. It's also my PB, although I wanted a sub 30 solution.

Any tips/continuations after my start?

EDIT: found this after F2L-1 on normal, but didnt pursue it earlier because I don't know multiple insertions:

F L F' D F' D' L' //EO + to L4C (basically just an insertion of the pair from U2 with a cancellation into F inverse sexy F') (20 move skeleton)

Insertion finder gives 30 moves to be optimal:

B2 U R' B2 U' F2 R' [@1] U' R F R F2 U' F L F' D F' D' L'
Insert at @1: R2 U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U
After the 1st insertion: B2 U R' B2 U' F2 R U' L2 U R2 U' L2 R F R F2 U' F [@2] L F' D F' D' L'
Insert at @2: F' L' B' L F L' B L
Fewest moves: 30. 6 moves cancelled
The final solution: B2 U R' B2 U' F2 R U' L2 U R2 U' L2 R F R F2 U' L' B' L F L' B L2 F' D F' D' L'

B2 U R' B2 U' F2 R' [@1] U' R F R F2 U' F L F' D F' D' L'
Insert at @1: R2 U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U
After the 1st insertion: B2 U R' B2 U' F2 R U' L2 U R2 U' L2 R F R F2 U' [@2] F L F' D F' D' L'
Insert at @2: L' B' L F L' B L F'
Fewest moves: 30. 6 moves cancelled
The final solution: B2 U R' B2 U' F2 R U' L2 U R2 U' L2 R F R F2 U' L' B' L F L' B L2 F' D F' D' L'


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## Scruggsy13 (Jun 7, 2016)

My first attempt using NISS:

Scramble: R2 D R' D' L' D R B L D' F2 U2 L2 U2 F L2 D2 B' D2 R2

Start on inverse
(B D2 U2 L2) // 2x2x2
R2 F D' F' D' // 2x2x3
(R' F' D R D') // F2L-1
F R F2 U F U' // F2L + EO
D R2 D2 R' D2 R' D2 R2 D // COLL

Final solution: R2 F D' F' D' F R F2 U F U' D R2 D2 R' D2 R' D2 R2 D2 R' D' F R L2 U2 D2 B' (28)
(previous PB was 42 lol)


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## ottozing (Jun 7, 2016)

Probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever done with a 3 corner 3 edge skeleton. I had a choice between doing 22 to 3C3E or 22 to 4C. On paper, 4C > 3C3E but 3C3E just has that magical bs quality to it that I've come to love 



Spoiler: Solution



F R2 B2 U' L2 D R2 D R2 D F2 R' F' U B2 L R' F2 U R

D2 (Make pair)
Switch
R2 F' U2 (1x2x2 + 2 pairs)
Switch
B2 U' (1x2x3)
Switch
D L2 U2 L' (2x2x3)
Switch
R' D B D' B2 (F2L-1)
D' R' D R' D' R2 D (3C3E)

Skeleton: D2 B2 U' R' D B D' B2 % D' R' D R' D' R2 D L U2 L2 D' U2 F R2 (22)

% D' R D R2 D' R D (Reduce to a 3 corner skeleton)

New skeleton: D2 B2 U' R' D B D' B2 D' R D R D' R2 D ^ L U2 L2 D' U2 F R2 (22 lol)

^ D B U' B' D' B U B'

Solution: D2 B2 U' R' D B D' B2 D' R D R D' R2 D2 B U' B' D' B U B' L U2 L2 D' U2 F R2 (29)



Insertion finder says optimal is 31 :^)


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## irontwig (Jun 7, 2016)

IF still finds a 29 if you check "Other":



Spoiler



1 corner 3-cycle(s) and 1 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed

D2 B2 U' R' D B D' B2 D' R' [@1] D R' D' R2 D L U2 L2 D' U2 F R2
Insert at @1: R2 D R2 D'
After the 1st insertion: D2 B2 U' R' D B D' B2 D' R D R D' R2 D [@2] L U2 L2 D' U2 F R2
Insert at @2: D B U' B' D' B U B'
Fewest moves: 29. 5 moves cancelled
The final solution: D2 B2 U' R' D B D' B2 D' R D R D' R2 D2 B U' B' D' B U B' L U2 L2 D' U2 F R2


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## kbrune (Jun 8, 2016)

To the FMC pros. I'm looking to broaden my skills. Some info as to my current skill level. I use currently use Heise/block building to complete F2L. then I use cfop LL with some move optimal pll. I have recently learned to use the premove technique with pseudo blocks. And I have been working on using more of the heise final steps to eventually be able to use 3 corner insertions.

I don't know how to use inverse scramble yet and I don't fully understand what a skeleton is. I usually end up with solves from 40 to 48 moves.

Question:
I was working on this scramble from WC this week.
R2 D2 L' U' B D' B L2 U D2 F B R2 D2 B2 U2 L2 B L2 F2

I managed to get 26 to 4 corners. With these moves
Y2
B' R2 U' R2 L D F' D' L D' 2x2x3
X'
F' L F L' F U' F L F L' F' F2L-1
U2 L' U L U L4C

Are 4 corner cycles a thing? Is it worth keeping this or would an experience FMC solver look for something else instead?


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## tseitsei (Jun 8, 2016)

kbrune said:


> To the FMC pros. I'm looking to broaden my skills. Some info as to my current skill level. I use currently use Heise/block building to complete F2L. then I use cfop LL with some move optimal pll. I have recently learned to use the premove technique with pseudo blocks. And I have been working on using more of the heise final steps to eventually be able to use 3 corner insertions.
> 
> I don't know how to use inverse scramble yet and I don't fully understand what a skeleton is. I usually end up with solves from 40 to 48 moves.
> 
> ...



Next thing you need to learn is insertions. That just means inserting commutator(s) somewhere in the solve to solve the last few pieces with as few moves as possible. Most common insertions are for 3 corners, 4 corners and 5 corners but also other types are commonly used. Insertions for 4C and 5C are really just doing 2 3C insertions one after another.
http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf is a very good overall FMC tutorial that also covers insertions very well, I strongly suggest reading it carefully. 

Skeleton means the part of your solve that only leaves you with few unsolved pieces that you are going to solve with insertions. So skeleton is your solution before doing insertions. 
Partly solution you have written in your post now is a skeleton that leaves 4 corners unsolved (the first X2 should be Y2 in your solution though). But this particular case of 4C is a bad one because one of the corners is in its correct place but twisted (this is always not good since it requires doing 3 3C insertions instead of 2 which obviously adds moves) and you should definitely search for something better. 

Although experienced FMC solvers would search for something better even if the 4C case was a good one because 26 moves to 4C isn't that good for more experienced solvers. The general rule of thumb is (at least for me) that the skeleton leaving 3C is obviously best one and takes about 6 moves to solve usually 4C and 5C are almost equal compared to each other (maybe 4C is marginally better) and usually take something like 10-11 moves to solve. These are the numbers I use to decide what skeleton I pick for insertions. Example: I have a 25 move skeleton that leaves 3C and a 22 move skeleton that leaves 5C. My expected movecount for 3C skeleton 25 + 6= 31 and for 5C skeleton 22+10=32 ---> I would first search insertions for 3C skeleton and then if I have time check the 5C skeleton also...


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## kbrune (Jun 9, 2016)

@tseitsei

Thank you for the detailed explanation and the link. Much appreciated!

Fixed the mistake as well thanks.


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## TeddyKGB (Jun 9, 2016)

tseitsei said:


> But this particular case of 4C is a bad one because one of the corners is in its correct place but twisted (this is always not good since it requires doing 3 3C insertions instead of 2



Incorrect.


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## tseitsei (Jun 9, 2016)

TeddyKGB said:


> Incorrect.


Oh yes you are correct. Stupid me....
With 4C you can have 1 twisted corner and still use just 2 comms to solve it. But no more than 1. With 5C you cant have any twisted corners. I dont know why I messed that up  sorry


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## Daniel Lin (Jun 9, 2016)

K for this weekly's FMC I didn't finish


Spoiler



scramble:L U B L' D F' R B D2 R U' D R2 F U' B L2 U' R2 B2

D F R F B'// EO
(B2 R B2)//2 P blocks and a pair

don't know what to do next
i tried this
D F2 L U2 L2 U2 L' U'//4e4c

both edges and corners are pure 4cycles. It might be possible to solve all 8 pieces in one move by putting them all on one layer. Or I could insert an alg. idk what the best option is


can someone pls help?


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## Cale S (Jun 9, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> K for this weekly's FMC I didn't finish
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



D F R F B' // EO
(B2 R B2) // blocks and stuff
D F2 L U2 L // F2L - 1 + EO
U L U L' U' L U2 L' U' // to L3C

D F R F B' D F2 L U2 @ L U L U L' U' L U2 L' U' B2 R' B2
@ = [U R U', L2]





edit: here's 13 to 4e3c, IF gives 26

D F R F B' D F2 U2 L U B2 R' B2


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## Bubtore (Jun 13, 2016)

Another good solve together with Emilien (we had the same skeleton).
I inserted and got 21, he solved the corners at the end and got 20, wtf ?!

S // B U2 F2 L D2 L2 F2 U2 F2 U2 L D L B U2 F' L' D2 R2 D2
I // D2 R2 D2 L F U2 B' L' D' L' U2 F2 U2 F2 L2 D2 L' F2 U2 B'

L F' // Pseudo 222
(D2 R' B) // EO
(U' R2 U D' R U R D U') // L3C

Skel // L F' D' * U R' U' R' D U' R2 U B' R D2 - 14

* F2 U' B U F2 U' B' U

Solution // L F' D' F2 U' B U F2 U' B' U2 R' U' R' D U' R2 U B' R D2 - 21


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## Cale S (Jun 13, 2016)

25 for current Weekly FMC


Spoiler



scramble: D' R L2 B2 F2 R' D' B2 R' U2 L2 D2 R L2 F' B L' U' F2 L2

(U' B' L' R F') // EO + 2 pairs
(U R2 U) U // 2x2x2
(D R D' R') // 2x2x3
D' L2 D' L // to 2GLL
(R D R' D R D2 R') // sune
R D R' D R D2 R' D' // sune

Final solution: U D' L2 D' L R D R' D R D2 R' D' R D2 R' D2 U' R2 U' F R' L B U (25)

20 out of the 25 moves were RUD


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## Bubtore (Jun 16, 2016)

Another funny evening with Emilien :
I've "found" this LL-skip, but we acted like retards ...

S // D' B' L2 D L B2 L F' B2 L' U' R D2 B2 D2 L2 U2 L2

U R' U2 D' B' // 123
F' L2 F D // 223
F2 U' R' F' R U2 // F2L-1
F2 R' D' F' D R F // Finish


Solution // U R' U2 D' B' F' L2 F D F2 U' R' F' R U2 F2 R' D' F' D R F - 22 Moves

So actually I had this here : F2 R' F2 R U F' U' F' // Finish, which gives me 23,
and didn't see the other solution even though it's the way I would do EO in a speedsolve.
Nor did Emilien, he looked at it and found a easy way to get to 3E3C and thus gave that to IF.
The programm inserted a 10 moves commutators which cancels all moves and gives the final 22 moves solution ...

edit : today's scrambles are from here
http://iwca.jp/competition/scrambles/competitionId/IranFMC2015/eventId/333fm
Best result for each attempt was 23 (me, should have been 22), 26 (him) and 23 (him) which makes it 24 (or 23.66 without failing) mo3 
Funnily enough, our 2 means sum up at 52, and the winner of the comp had 52.33


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## Emilien (Jun 17, 2016)

I really loved the last one, nothing for 40 minutes and in the last 20 ... :

L F' R' F R' L' B2 U' L' D' B U F2 L2 U R2 D2 L2 U' D2

R U B // Eo (3)
(U' R U R U' L' F2 D' B2 R') // L5C (10)


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## Cale S (Jun 18, 2016)

this was pretty nice, lots of block possibilities 

L2 U2 B2 L2 B2 R2 B' D2 B' R2 U2 R D' U' L2 U' L' R2 D U2 R2

D' B' // square
(D' L2) // another one
R' D2 F2 // another one
(B' D' R' B2) // pseudo F2L - 1
B U' R U B' R2 B // pseudo F2L + blocks
(B2 U' R' U R B U2) // LL

Final solution: D' B' R' D2 F2 B U' R U B' R2 B U2 B' R' U' R U R D B L2 D
23 moves


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## porkynator (Jun 18, 2016)

Cale S said:


> [...]
> B U' R U B' R2 B // pseudo F2L + blocks
> [...]


Wow, really nice! I don't think I would have thought of temporarily destroying the block with _2 moves._


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## Cale S (Jun 19, 2016)

24 for Weekly FMC with only 1 move cancel from insertion 


Spoiler



scramble: U2 L2 R2 U' F L B' F L' R2 D L2 B F' D R' F' B' L R'

(D' F) // square
(L' B' L2) // another square
L D L' U2 // 2x2x3 + EO
R2 F2 R F2 R2 F R F' // to L3C

L D L' @ U2 R2 F2 R F2 R2 F R F' L2 B L F' D
@ = [R', U' L2 U]

Final solution: L D L' R' U' L2 U R U' L2 U' R2 F2 R F2 R2 F R F' L2 B L F' D (24)


I tried doing some weird roux stuff with a 3 move 1x2x3 and decent second block stuff but it didn't really work


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## Attila (Jun 20, 2016)

Weekly FMC scramble:
U2 L2 R2 U' F L B' F L' R2 D L2 B F' D R' F' B' L R'

Unfortunately, I ran out of time 






Spoiler



F R' D' L' F2 B R' orient corners and orient edges,
(D' F2 B2)
(R' U2 D2 L U' R2 U' B2 U' D LSE


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## Robert-Y (Jun 20, 2016)

Some scramble I got whilst practicing 3x3x3:
R2 D2 B' U2 F D2 R2 F' L2 D2 U L2 F' L D R F' R


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## Cale S (Jun 20, 2016)

Robert-Y said:


> Some scramble I got whilst practicing 3x3x3:
> R2 D2 B' U2 F D2 R2 F' L2 D2 U L2 F' L D R F' R



D' // 2x2x2
F' // pseudo 2x2x3
L F' // F2L - 1
U' L U2 D' B' @ U' B D L // VLS to L3C

@ = [B, L' F2 L] 

Final solution: D' F' L F' U' L U2 D' L' F2 L B' L' F2 L U' B D L
19 moves

3 minute FMC ftw


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## Lars Petrus (Jun 20, 2016)

Hi everyone!

Following NISS solutions is a pain even for those who know how, so I made a web site that does the work for you. I hope people will like it enough to use it, and hate it enough to tell me how it should be improved. 

As an example, here is a recent NISS solution from this forum (#3716 by Cale S):

http://birdflu.lar5.com/fmc?s=lublbrqdqruRpnln1rDur&n=pq(pl)Pdf(qpPb)BnRUqrB(bnPURBu)


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## Mark Boyanowski (Jun 21, 2016)

Here are my solves for Mental Breakdown 2016, moves in parenthesis are done on inverse:

Scramble: R' U' F L2 F' D2 F U2 F L2 F' U2 R2 F' D' B U' B F L' R' U' F D R' U' F



Spoiler



(B' L' B U R') // EO + 2 2x2x1s
(U B' F2) // 2x2x3
(F D' F') // Block
(D' R2 D B' D B D2) // 4C

Skeleton: D2 B' D' B D' R2 D F @ D F B U' + R U' B' L B

@ = B' D F D' B D F' D' (Cancels 4)
+ = U' R' D R U R' D' R (Cancels 2)

Final(27): D2 B' D' B D' R2 D F B' D F D' B D B U2 R' D R U R' D' R2 U' B' L B

Unfortunately, I realized with 5 minutes left I could have done (R2 D') instead of the last line to get 12 to 3E3C, optimal 25. At least my insertions for the 17 to 4C were optimal 



Scramble: R' U' F L2 D L2 D' U' F2 L2 U F L D U F R2 D L2 B2 D R U2 R' U' F



Spoiler



Ok, this one was a little silly.

(U2 F' R2 B) // 2x2x2
(D') // Pseudo 2x2x3
D // 2x2x3
(D R2 D2 R') // Block
(F2 R D F') // F2L -1
(F R F' R' F R2 F') // How dose you dose this pair?
(D' F D2 B' D2 F' D2 B D' R') // OLL into PLL skip

Final(27): D R D B' D2 F D2 B D2 F' D F R2 F' R F R' D' R' F2 R D2 R2 B' R2 F U2

I also found this:

(U2 F' R2 B) // 2x2x2
(D') // Pseudo 2x2x3
D // 2x2x3
(F' D R' D') // 2x2x2 + 1x2x3
(D' U F D U') // EO
(U R U' R U R2 U' R') // 20 to 3C, optimal 28.

Lastly, I found this:

(U2 F' R2 B) // 2x2x2
(D') // Pseudo 2x2x3
D // 2x2x3
(F' D R' D') // 2x2x2 + 1x2x3
(D' U F' D U') // EO
(U R U' F2 U R' U' F2 R') // Block comm to 2 twisted corners, in total 21 moves. Optimal is 26  I looked at insertions on it quickly near the end, but wasn't very thorough.



Scramble: R' U' F L2 D2 F' L2 B' U2 F U2 R D2 L2 F' D B' D2 R' U R2 D F' R' U' F



Spoiler



(U' B U2) // 2x2x1
(F' R F) // Another 2x2x1
(U' F U' F' U' R2) // 2x2x3
(B2 L' D L) // EO
(D' B2 D B D') // 3C

Skeleton: D B' D' B2 D # L' D' L B2 R2 U F U F' U F' R' F U2 B' U

# = U' L' D' L U L' D L (Cancels 6)

Final(23): D B' D' B2 D U' L' D' L U B2 R2 U F U F' U F' R' F U2 B' U



As you can see, there are a few disappointments for solves 1 and 2, where I could have gotten better solutions, but overall I'm still extremely happy with this mean


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## Daniel Lin (Jun 21, 2016)

i just found out today that U R B U' B' U2 can be rewritten as U' F' U' F R while learning ZBLL algs

how can you tell just by looking at an alg if it can be rewritten in a different way?


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## Cale S (Jun 21, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> i just found out today that U R B U' B' U2 can be rewritten as U' F' U' F R while learning ZBLL algs
> 
> how can you tell just by looking at an alg if it can be rewritten in a different way?


it mostly comes down to knowing the few cases that work, for example:
R U2 R' L' U2 L = L' U2 L R U2 R'
L' U L R U2 R' = R U2 R' L' U' L 
R U R' F' U2 L' U' L F U2 does nothing as well as its cyclic shifts, this can be used the most probably
R U2 R' U' R' F R F' = U2 R U B U2 B' R' 
R U R' F' U F = U F R' F' R U


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## Daniel Lin (Jun 21, 2016)

Cale S said:


> it mostly comes down to knowing the few cases that work, for example:
> R U2 R' L' U2 L = L' U2 L R U2 R'
> L' U L R U2 R' = R U2 R' L' U' L
> R U R' F' U2 L' U' L F U2 does nothing as well as its cyclic shifts, this can be used the most probably
> ...


Cool. Where did you get these from?


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## Cale S (Jun 21, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> Cool. Where did you get these from?


most I just found by playing around with stuff


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## okayama (Jun 22, 2016)

Lars Petrus said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> Following NISS solutions is a pain even for those who know how, so I made a web site that does the work for you. I hope people will like it enough to use it, and hate it enough to tell me how it should be improved.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your nice work!


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## Joey VOV (Jun 26, 2016)

Try this scramble: I think what I did is obvious but I'd like more perspectives.
L2 B2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 L' U' L' U' B D' B2 L F L2



Spoiler



Scramble: L2 B2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 L' U' L' U' B D' B2 L F L2
Inverse: L2 F' L' B2 D B' U L U L U2 F2 R2 F2 L2 D R2 U2 B2 L2

ON NORMAL:
D F L' / 222 (3)
R' D F R' / 2 221 BLOCKS (7)
F2 D / PF2L-1 (9)
SWITCH TO INVERSE:
D2 F' D2 R' D' R2 / TO L3C (15)

SKELETON: D F L' R' D F R' F2 D R2 D R ^D2 F D2
INSERT AT^: F' U F D2 F' U' F D2

FINAL SOLUTION: D F L' R' D F R' F2 D R2 D R F' U F D2 F' U' F2 D2 (20)


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## Rcuber123 (Jun 27, 2016)

Joey VOV said:


> Try this scramble: I think what I did is obvious but I'd like more perspectives.
> L2 B2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 L' U' L' U' B D' B2 L F L2
> 
> 
> ...



up until the 9th move i did the same but i don't use NISS


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## TeddyKGB (Jun 28, 2016)

Here are my solutions for my NAR mean (24.67) from Indiana 2016

Moves in parenthesis are on inverse

1. R' U' F D2 R D2 F2 L B2 L' B2 L2 B' U2 F L B D' L U' R B D R' U' F



Spoiler



(F L D2 B) // EO
(F2 U2 F2 U2) // 2x2x2
(D' L2 D) // Blocks
(F2 L F2 L D2) // L5C

Skeleton: D2 L' @ F2 L' F2 D' L2 # D U2 F2 U2 F2 B' D2 L' F'

@ = D' B D F2 D' B' D F2 - 2 Moves cancel
# = F' U2 F D F' U2 F D' - 2 Moves cancel

Solution: D2 L' D' B D F2 D' B' D L' F2 D' L2 F' U2 F D F' U2 F U2 F2 U2 F2 B' D2 L' F' (28)



2. R' U' F U' R2 B2 D2 L2 D2 F2 U' B2 U R' F' R D2 L' U' B F2 D2 U B R' U' F 



Spoiler



(F D) // 2x2x1
(U' R) // 2x2x2
(D' L B2 D) // 2x2x3 + EO
(B2 L B2 L2) // F2L -1
(L' B' L B2) // L4C

Skeleton: B2 L' B L' B2 L' B2 D' B2 L' @ D R' U D' F' 

@ = L' D R2 D' L D # R2 D' - 4 moves cancel 
# = D R U R' D' R U' R' - 5 moves cancel

Solution: B2 L' B L' B2 L' B2 D' B2 L2 D R2 D' L D2 R U R' D' R D' F' (22)



3. R' U' F U2 B2 D U F2 L2 D F2 R F R2 D2 L U' R2 D' L D' B D' R' U' F



Spoiler



(L F D' B' R) // EO
U' D2 F // 2x2x2
B2 U' B U B U // Pseudo F2L -1
D' B D // Pseudo F2L
U B U' B U B2 // L3C

Skeleton: U' D2 F B2 U' B @ U B U D' B D U B U' B U B2 R' B D F' L'

@ = B D' B' U B D B' U' - 7 Moves cancel

Solution: U' D2 F B2 U' B2 D' B' U B U B D U B U' B U B2 R' B D F' L' (24)


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## Cale S (Jul 3, 2016)

really interesting solution

Scramble: B' U2 F' D2 F' U2 B F L2 U2 F' L B2 U' B U F' D R' U' F'

U F B' D' // square
L2 B' // another square
(L2 R U2 L F' L' F' R) // to 3c4e

U F B' D' L2 B' R' F @ L F L' U2 ^ R' L2

@ = [E, L F L'] // edge 3-cycle cancels 7 moves
^ = F' U' F U L' U L U' // finish

Final solution: U F B' D' L2 B' R' F U D' B L B' U D F' U' F U L' U L U' R' L2
25 moves


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## Ksh13 (Jul 4, 2016)

So after asking on Reddit and not really getting an answer there, I figured out this would be the best place to seek advice. So basically after reading myself up a bit on FMC (read the majority of that big FMC guide), I have one big problem. I can not find much on how you move on from say a 2x2x3 or F2L-1 to something like L3C. How do you effiecently permute the edges and such to get to that point? I always end up completing F2L and doing LL instead, which I am aware of is horribly ineffiecent. I really haven't found any resources on this. Here is an example of what I mean:

xxxxx // 2x2x2
xxxxx // 2x2x3
xxxxx // Some stuff that brings you to L3C

I'm basically wondering how you get good at/resources about how you do the "Some stuff that brings you to L3C" part.


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## 4Chan (Jul 4, 2016)

I'm not that great at FMC, I average around 36 officially.

So what I do in that situation is just put the edges in the right place, and generally speaking, stuff just randomly comes together to give you either L3C or L4C, since with 5 corners in motion, you're bound to get at least one in the right place.

But usually in that situation, I use some techniques that are really unconventional.


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## obelisk477 (Jul 4, 2016)

Ksh13 said:


> So after asking on Reddit and not really getting an answer there, I figured out this would be the best place to seek advice. So basically after reading myself up a bit on FMC (read the majority of that big FMC guide), I have one big problem. I can not find much on how you move on from say a 2x2x3 or F2L-1 to something like L3C. How do you effiecently permute the edges and such to get to that point? I always end up completing F2L and doing LL instead, which I am aware of is horribly ineffiecent. I really haven't found any resources on this. Here is an example of what I mean:
> 
> xxxxx // 2x2x2
> xxxxx // 2x2x3
> ...



From F2L-1


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## Daniel Lin (Jul 5, 2016)

Cale S said:


> really interesting solution
> 
> Scramble: B' U2 F' D2 F' U2 B F L2 U2 F' L B2 U' B U F' D R' U' F'
> 
> ...


nice solution
F' U' F U L' U L U' isn't even a last layer alg, how did you know there would be an easy F2l Case in the middle of the solve?


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## Cale S (Jul 5, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> nice solution
> F' U' F U L' U L U' isn't even a last layer alg, how did you know there would be an easy F2l Case in the middle of the solve?


If you do the moves after the ^, then the scramble, and then the moves of the skeleton before it, you can see what you need to insert there to solve it (I think this is called reverse NISS). Here it's just 2 moves away from the end of the skeleton, and solving it is two 3 move pairs then everything is solved


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## Daniel Lin (Jul 5, 2016)

Cale S said:


> If you do the moves after the ^, then the scramble, and then the moves of the skeleton before it, you can see what you need to insert there to solve it (I think this is called reverse NISS). Here it's just 2 moves away from the end of the skeleton, and solving it is two 3 move pairs then everything is solved


yeah i know about reverse NISS. but how did you know to do it right at that point-2 moves away from the end? did you try reverse niss at every point of the solve?


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## Cale S (Jul 5, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> yeah i know about reverse NISS. but how did you know to do it right at that point-2 moves away from the end? did you try reverse niss at every point of the solve?


I try using it a lot, usually I start from the end and work backwards and here it was 2 moves from the end


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## Cale S (Jul 5, 2016)

pb single for /r/cubers weekly competition



Spoiler



R' U' F D R2 D2 B2 F2 D L2 R2 B2 U L U2 R2 D' B' R2 B' U2 R' U' F

B U2 // square
(U R2) // pseudo 2x2x2 + preserve pairs
R' L' B' // 2x2x3
L B' L2 B // F2L - 1
B R F D F' D R' D B' // ZBLS to L3C

B U2 R' L' B' L B' @ L2 B2 R F D F' D R' D B' R2 U'
@ = [B L' B', R2]

Final solution: B U2 R' L' B2 R2 B L B' R2 L2 B2 R F D F' D R' D B' R2 U'
22 moves


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## BQ (Jul 5, 2016)

The following is the solution of single AsR broken by Ziheng Ma at Cube of Odd Numbers 2016.

Scramble:
R' U' F U R2 U' R2 U' B2 L2 U B2 U' F L2 U L' D L U2 B2 D2 L F' R' U' F
Solution:
L2 F2 R2 D R2 F2 L B2 L' D2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L R' D' (20 moves)


Spoiler



NISS
pseudo 223: D R L2 //3
NISS
L3E3C: U' L' B2 L' D2 L //6-1

skeletion: ① U' L' B2 L' D2 ② L' R' D'
①: L2 F2 R2 D R2 F2 L2 U //8-3
②: U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2 //8-1


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## Calode (Jul 14, 2016)

Trying to get into FMC. My first 3 solves were 42, 28 , and 33. This is my 4th attempt and decided to do it on a 2 move 2x2x2 scramble someone gave me. Btw, I know niss and insertions, just didn't find place for them here.

Scramble: F D' R2 U2 B' R D2 L B D' L2 D2 B2 D B2 R2 L2 U' L2

U' R' // 2x2x2
L D' L' D L F D2 F' // 2x2x3
D B' L' B L' // F2L-1
D' B D B' D B D B' D' L B' L' B // F2L
R' D' B' D B R // OLL + PLL skip

Final solution U' R' L D' L' D L F D2 F' D B' L' B L' D' B D B' D B D B' D' L B' L' B R' D' B' D B R
**35 moves**

How could I have done better? I feel like I wasted a 2 move 2x2 and a 10 move 2x2x3.


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## Cale S (Jul 14, 2016)

Calode said:


> Scramble: F D' R2 U2 B' R D2 L B D' L2 D2 B2 D B2 R2 L2 U' L2



U' R' // 2x2x2
(D2 L2 F) // pseudo 2x2x3 + pairs
(D) D' F // F2L - 1
D' B D B' L' // square in LL
B D' B' D B D' B' D // to L3C

U' R' D' F D' B D B' L' B D' B' D B D' B' F' @ L2 D2
@ = [B', L' F2 L]

Final solution: U' R' D' F D' B D B' L' B D' B' D B D' B2 F' L' F2 L B L' F2 L' D2
25 moves

8 move F2L-1 lol


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## Calode (Jul 14, 2016)

Thanks, I didn't see that psuedo 2x2x3. Definitely something I should be looking out for. I thought I had done the inverse scramble after the 2x2 and found nothing, guess I should look harder.


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## Cale S (Jul 14, 2016)

Calode said:


> Scramble: F D' R2 U2 B' R D2 L B D' L2 D2 B2 D B2 R2 L2 U' L2



and here's a very interesting 23:

U' R' // 2x2x2
(D2 L2 F) // pseudo 2x2x3 + pairs
(D F') // more blocks
L' B D2 B' D' // 3e4c

U' ^ R' L' B D2 B' D' F D' F' L2 @ D2
^ = F L D' L' D L' F' L // block comm
@ = [L2, F' R F] // corner comm

Final solution: U' F L D' L' D L' F' R' B D2 B' D' F D' F2 R F L2 F' R' F D2
23 moves


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## Kit Clement (Jul 14, 2016)

Calode said:


> Trying to get into FMC. My first 3 solves were 42, 28 , and 33. This is my 4th attempt and decided to do it on a 2 move 2x2x2 scramble someone gave me. Btw, I know niss and insertions, just didn't find place for them here.
> 
> Scramble: F D' R2 U2 B' R D2 L B D' L2 D2 B2 D B2 R2 L2 U' L2
> 
> ...



There's a lot of good blocks if you switch after the 2x2 and do D2 L2. I couldn't seem to find a terribly good finish on it though, this was the best I could find:

N: U' R' //2x2x2
I: D2 L2 D2 F L2 D L F' //F2L-1
D R' D R D' F D F' D' //L4C (19)

Insertions are lucky on this one, at least: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/886d02fcda9039738f92049136c61e8a.cube


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## Cale S (Jul 16, 2016)

pretty funny solution 

R2 F' L' D L' B' D' B2 L' D F B' L2 B L2 B' U2 F U2 R2 B

F2 U2 F // 2x2x2
(U L2) // 2x2x3
(B' U2 B' U' L) B2 U2 B2 L // F2L
R' F R U R' U' F' U R // LL

Final solution: F2 U2 F B2 U2 B2 L R' F R U R' U' F' U R L' U B U2 B L2 U'
23 moves

21 in STM
found in 32 minutes


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## TeddyKGB (Jul 16, 2016)

Cale S said:


> pretty funny solution
> 
> R2 F' L' D L' B' D' B2 L' D F B' L2 B L2 B' U2 F U2 R2 B
> 
> ...


Can you explain what the inverse portion of your F2L step is doing?


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## Cale S (Jul 16, 2016)

TeddyKGB said:


> Can you explain what the inverse portion of your F2L step is doing?



I had to do a lot of manipulating things and cancelling moves, here was my thought process:

R2 F' L' D L' B' D' B2 L' D F B' L2 B L2 B' U2 F U2 R2 B

F2 U2 F // 2x2x2
(U L2) // 2x2x3
B2 // form 2 pairs
(B' U R') // pseudo F2L - 1
U2 R' // F2L - 1
(R U B') // make square (noticed because it cancels a few moves)
R B2 L // pseudo F2L with lots of blocks, this also cancels moves
(U' L) // fix F2L
R' F R U R' U' F' U R // LL


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## Hssandwich (Jul 16, 2016)

At Euros 2016, on the second scramble, I got a 28, however, I think I wrote it down wrong on the proper FMC sheet :,(

Scramble: R' U' F L' R U2 B2 F2 R' D2 R2 F2 L F D' B' U' L F' U R' B2 F' U R' U' F



Spoiler



Inverse scramble: F' U R U' F B2 R U' F L' U B D F' L' F2 R2 D2 R F2 B2 U2 R' L F' U R
On inverse scramble:
R2// 1x1x2
U' F U F' //2x2x2
F B D2 F2 R' F //XXCross
D B D' B' //F2L-1
B' D2 B D' F D' B' D B F' //WV
D' //L3C
Skeleton: R2 U' F U (F' F) B * D2 F2 R' F D B D' B2 D2 B D' F D' B' D B F' D' (23)
Insert at *: F U F' D2 F U' F' D2 to cancel 3 moves

Final solution to inverse: R2 U' F U B F U F' D2 F U' F R' F D B D' B2 D2 B D' F D' B' D B F' D'

Solution: D F B' D' B D F' D B' D2 B2 D B' D' F' R F' U F' D2 F U' F' B' U' F' U R2
IF says that 28 is optimal, shame I didn't check my solution though :,(


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## Cale S (Jul 17, 2016)

21 pb single for the current Weekly FMC 


Spoiler



scramble: U D L2 R2 B2 F2 L R2 D U F2 L U' B2 D2 R' L' B' U2 R2

L2 D2 R2 F U2 // 2x2x2 
(R B2 R') // 2x2x3 + EO + pairs
(B2 D B D2) // F2L - 1
L (B L) // F2L
(L' B' D' B D2 L D' B2 D' B2 D) // LL

Final solution: L2 D2 R2 F U2 L D' B2 D B2 D L' D2 B' D' B' D' B2 R B2 R' (21)


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## mycube (Jul 18, 2016)

I don't know if anyone really cares about a 27.00 mean, but this are my solutions from the weekend:

1st attempt: 28 Moves


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F R2 F U2 L2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B U' R2 U F2 L' D L2 R' U B R' U' F

start on inverse:
R F' L' - pseudo 2x2x2
switch:
F' D' R D2 - pseudo xx-cross
switch:
B2 R2 F' R' F - F2L-1
switch:
U R U' R' B' F R' B R F' - Finish

L3C:
F' . D' R D2 U R U' R' B' F R' B R F2 R F R2 B2 L F R'
. = F' R' F L2 F' R F L2 

Solution:
F2 R' F L2 F' R F L2 D' R D2 U R U' R' B' F R' B R F2 R F R2 B2 L F R'



2nd attempt: 28 Moves


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F L' R U2 B2 F2 R' D2 R2 F2 L F D' B' U' L F' U R' B2 F' U R' U' F
start on inverse:
L D - some blocks
B' L' B2 R2 D2 B' - pseudo 2x2x3 + blocks
switch:
D' B2 - undo pseudoness
L U' L2 - F2L-1
switch:
F R U R' U F' - Finish

L4C:
D' B2 L U' L2 F U' . R U' R' F' B D2 R2 B2 L B D' L'
. = U L U' R U L' : U' R'
: = L' U R U' L U R' U'

Solution:
D' B2 L U' L2 F L U' R U L2 U R U' L U R' U R' F' B D2 R2 B2 L B D' L'



3rd attempt: 25 Moves


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 B2 U' B2 D B2 L2 D F' D2 F2 R' F2 U' B U F' R' U' F

F' D2 B - EO
switch:
F2 R' D' L' R2 - a lot of 1x2x2s
F2 D R D' U' R' D' - nice finish

L5C:
F' D2 B D R U D R' D' F2 R2 L . D R F2
. = L U2 L' D L U2 : L' D'
: = U' L' D2 L U L' D2 L

Solution:
F' D2 B D R U D R' D' F2 R2 L2 U2 L' D L U L' D2 L U L' D2 R F2



All my insertions are optimal!


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## TheCoolMinxer (Jul 20, 2016)

fmc PB single by 4 moves lol

Scramble: R' U' F L2 R2 F' D2 B L2 D2 L2 F R' D' L2 U2 R B' R' F' D2 B' D' R' U' F

normal: B L' F B2 D //2x2x2
inverse: R' B' //2x2x3
normal: U F R' F2 U F U' F' U' F //F2L-1
inverse: B U' B U B' U' B R B2 L' B' L B2 R' B2 //LS-WV

solution: B L' F B2 D U F R' F2 U F U' F' U' F B2 R B2 L' B L B2 R' B' U B U' B' U R

30 moves.


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## Cale S (Jul 20, 2016)

My attempts at the Euro2016 scrambles


Spoiler



R' U' F R2 F U2 L2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B U' R2 U F2 L' D L2 R' U B R' U' F

(F' L F' R F' L2) // pseudo 2x2x3
(B2 D' F) // 2x2x3 
B U' L' U F' (F') // F2L - 1 + EO 
B D' B D B2 D' B' D B' // L3C

B U' L' U F' B D' B D B2 D' B' D B' D B2 L2 F R' F L' @ F
@ = [L F L', B']

Final solution: B U' L' U F' B D' B D B2 D' B' D B' D B2 L2 F R' F2 L' B' L F' L' B F

27 moves


I found a 7 move 2x2x3 (used a variation of it in the solution) but didn't find anything better with it

(F') F' // square
(L F' R F' L2) // 2x2x3





Spoiler



R' U' F L' R U2 B2 F2 R' D2 R2 F2 L F D' B' U' L F' U R' B2 F' U R' U' F

(F R' L B') // EO + 2 more pairs
(F2 L) // tfw F2 L doesn't solve F2L (square)
(R' D' R) // another square
D' L2 F2 U2 B2 R B2 // to L4C

D' L2 F2 ^ U2 B2 R B2 R' D L' @ R F2 B L' R F'
@ = [L, D' R D]
^ = [F D' F', U2]

Final solution: D' L2 F' D' F' U2 F D F' B2 R B2 D L' D' R' D R F2 B L' R F'

23 moves





Spoiler



R' U' F U2 R2 B2 U' B2 D B2 L2 D F' D2 F2 R' F2 U' B U F' R' U' F

F' D2 B // EO
D // square
(F2 D' L') // pseudo 2x2x3
U F U F U' // F2L - 1
D' F2 D L (L) // F2L
L B D B' D' L' D // L3C

F' D2 B D U F U F U' @ D' F2 D L2 B D B' D' L' D2 F2
@ = [U, F' D' F]

Final solution: F' D2 B D U F U D' F U' F' D F D' F2 D L2 B D B' D' L' D2 F2

24 moves


27, 23, 24 = 24.67


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## TheCoolMinxer (Jul 20, 2016)

R' U' F U2 F2 U' F2 U' R2 B2 L B D B2 R2 B D2 R' D2 F' R U R' U' F

normal: B' R U' L D' U L2 U B2 //2x2x3
D L' D' L D2 //F2L-1
inverse: B' L2 B2 D' B' L' B' L B L' B' L2 B L B' L' B D L2 //LS+EO+ZBLL

solution: B' R U' L D U L2 U B2 D L' D' L D2 L2 D' B' L B L' B' L2 B L B' L' B L B D B2 L2 B

33 moves, makes up a 33.33 pb mo3, which is pb by a lot (37, 30, 33)


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## Hssandwich (Jul 20, 2016)

Doing a bit of FMC now to reclaim my 28

B' D2 B' D2 F U2 F R2 D2 F L2 U B' L B R2 B' L2 R' D' F2
Inv: F2 D R L2 B R2 B' L' B U' L2 F' D2 R2 F' U2 F' D2 B D2 B

Normal: D2 L' D R F' //2x2x2 (5)
Normal: D B' D L2 //2x2x3 (9)
Normal: D L' D L // Pseudo F2L-1 (13)
Inverse: D2 // F2L-1 (14)
Inverse: B' L B L' B2 L B' L' B2 //L3C (23)
Skeleton: D2 L' D R F' D B' D L2 D L' D L B2 L B L' B2 * L B' L' B D2
*B' L B R B' L' B R' (cancels 1)
Solution: D2 L' D F R' D B' D L2 D L' D L B2 L B L' B L B R B' L' B R' L B' L' B D2 (30)


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## wir3sandfir3s (Jul 21, 2016)

Finally decided to learn FMC in hopes of becoming more efficient in Speedsolving.
What's a good block building tutorial? I am struggling a lot with it.


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## Hssandwich (Jul 21, 2016)

Actually doing a few attempts per day now, this is only the second day of doing this, but so far results have been 30,30,27,27.

27 #1


Spoiler



F2 D' B2 R2 D2 L2 F2 D L2 B2 L2 F L B2 L2 D' B2 F L' U2

Inv: R2 B2 D F2 D
Inv: B' U' L
B' F U2 F' U' B'
U L' F' L F
L2 U' L U L
Skeleton: B' F U2 F' U' B' U L' F' L F L2 U' L @ U2 B D' F2 D' B2 R2
@ L' F' L B L' F L B' (cancels 2)
Solution: B' F U2 F' U' B' U L' F' L F L2 U' F' L B L' F L B' U2 B D' F2 D' B2 R2 (27)



27 #2


Spoiler



B2 U' F2 D F2 D2 L2 F2 L2 R2 U2 L' D' F L2 B2 D' U F R' D2 R2

U //1x1x2 1/1
inv: B D2 L' B' R2 F2 // 2x2x3 6/7
D L' D L D L2 // F2L-1 6/13
inv: D' F' D F //Tripod block
inv: D2 F L' F' L D' L D L' D2 // Ninja LL skip out of nowhere

Solution: U D' L' D L D L2 D2 L D' L' D L' F L F' D2 F' D' F D F2 R2 B L D2 B' (27)

I spent about 35 minutes trying to find a good start, until I tried switching after 1x1x2s, then found the 2x2x3 while trying to do a square. Then the LL skip made everything cool.


FMC is fun 

EDIT: Woah, just got a 25, making it a 26.33 mo3.

25


Spoiler



F2 D' R2 U F2 U2 L2 U' F2 D U' L B2 L2 U F L D2 B' F D2

F B2 L B2 //222 [4/4]
U2 R F R2 //223 [4/8] (took me a while to find this)
U F' U2 L' U' R U2 L (R') // F2L [9/16]
(R) U R' F L F' L' R U' R' // LL [9/25] 
Solution: F B2 L B2 U2 R F R2 U F' U2 L' U' R U2 L U R' F L F' L' R U' R'

There was a 3 mover on inverse with not many good continuations that I found, and I spent the majority of the time looking for good things after the 2x2x2s. Again, a lucky finish, but since not too many people know the alg, I don't feel really, really lucky. In the end I didn't even need the inverse haha


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## wir3sandfir3s (Jul 22, 2016)

Hssandwich said:


> Actually doing a few attempts per day now, this is only the second day of doing this, but so far results have been 30,30,27,27.
> 
> 27 #1
> 
> ...


How did u get so good so fast


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## Hssandwich (Jul 22, 2016)

wir3sandfir3s said:


> How did u get so good so fast


Haha, I averaged about 38 before euros, then something just clicked. I also learned how to switch, so that really helped with everything, giving you multiple options. There were a little lucky too, especially witht the LL skip on the 27 and easy 1LLL on the 25. My next attempt was a 35, but that had a bad ending.
I try to always go 2x2x2 -> 2x2x3 -> F2L-1 -> Whatevee I can find to finish quickly, this might be a tripod block to then solve some of the edges or reduce it to 5c.


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## wir3sandfir3s (Jul 22, 2016)

Hssandwich said:


> Haha, I averaged about 38 before euros,


But I average 50-60 now following sebastiano's tutorial...


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## Hssandwich (Jul 22, 2016)

wir3sandfir3s said:


> But I average 50-60 now following sebastiano's tutorial...



What part do you struggle on? Is it the block building? If so, try to get a 2x2x2 in 7 moves. This isn't too hard if you either have a pre-built 1x1x2. If you don't, you can usually get one in just 1 move, by just trying every move to see what it does. Then try to make a 1x2x2 by connecting the 1x1x2 to the edge and centre, then look for the other edge and put them together. Sorry if that didn't make too much sense 
After that it's kind of the same concept to make a 2x2x3, make or use another 1x1x2 and connect it to its edge and then put it with the rest. Then the same for F2L-1. Then try to do EO and reduce it to 3 corners or 5 corners, which are usually the best to have for insertions.
I hope this helped!


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## wir3sandfir3s (Jul 22, 2016)

Hssandwich said:


> What part do you struggle on? Is it the block building? If so, try to get a 2x2x2 in 7 moves. This isn't too hard if you either have a pre-built 1x1x2. If you don't, you can usually get one in just 1 move, by just trying every move to see what it does. Then try to make a 1x2x2 by connecting the 1x1x2 to the edge and centre, then look for the other edge and put them together. Sorry if that didn't make too much sense
> After that it's kind of the same concept to make a 2x2x3, make or use another 1x1x2 and connect it to its edge and then put it with the rest. Then the same for F2L-1. Then try to do EO and reduce it to 3 corners or 5 corners, which are usually the best to have for insertions.
> I hope this helped!


Block building is only half my worries, I also cant get to L3C with two pairs for my life without going to an insane amount of moves... I can do it easy, I used to use Heise, just not for FMC.


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## Robert-Y (Jul 22, 2016)

I retried the first FMC scramble of Euros 2016

Normal scramble: R' U' F R2 F U2 L2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B U' R2 U F2 L' D L2 R' U B R' U' F
Inverse scramble: F' U R B' U' R L2 D' L F2 U' R2 U B' U2 B2 U2 B2 L2 U2 F' R2 F' U R

2x2x3 on inverse: (B2 F' U' L R F' L2 {B*} R F)

I was trying to get sub 27 (27 is the best result so far). The move in curly braces is just a move that can be inserted into the 2x2x3 but isn't actually part of the 2x2x3. Can anyone finish this for me?


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## Hssandwich (Jul 22, 2016)

Robert-Y said:


> I retried the first FMC scramble of Euros 2016
> 
> Normal scramble: R' U' F R2 F U2 L2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B U' R2 U F2 L' D L2 R' U B R' U' F
> Inverse scramble: F' U R B' U' R L2 D' L F2 U' R2 U B' U2 B2 U2 B2 L2 U2 F' R2 F' U R
> ...


(B2 F' U' L R F' L2 R F) //223 9/9
(B' D2 B D) //Pseudo F2L-1 4/13
From here I tried:
(B' R' B' R) //F2L-1+tripod block 4/17
And
D2 (B' R' B' R) // F2L-1 + tripod block

But to no avail, someone may be able to make something of this.


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## Cale S (Jul 23, 2016)

fun insertion from the example solve thread

scramble: R' D F2 U R' D B L2 B' U2 R2 D F2 B2 U L2 F2 U' L2 U'

R' // square
(D R) // roux block
(D2 B2 D' F2) // xxcross 
R' L U' L' R (U2 R' U' R U) // to 5 twisted pieces

R2 L U' L' R U' @ R' U R U2 F2 D B2 D2 R' D'

@ = U' L U2 F U F2 L F L2 U2 // yay

Final solution: R2 L U' L' R U2 L U2 F U F2 L F L2 U2 R' U R U2 F2 D B2 D2 R' D'
25 moves


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## CyanSandwich (Jul 23, 2016)

Cale S said:


> fun insertion from the example solve thread
> 
> scramble: R' D F2 U R' D B L2 B' U2 R2 D F2 B2 U L2 F2 U' L2 U'
> 
> ...


Crazy. Have you learned a bunch of algs for twisting corners+edges / how did you come up with that?


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## irontwig (Jul 23, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> Crazy. Have you learned a bunch of algs for twisting corners+edges / how did you come up with that?



You can view it as a conjugate of a well known LL case, although I would have done it as U' B2 R B R2 U R U2 B U2. That alternative version could come in handy if it cancels more moves, though.


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## Cale S (Jul 23, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> Crazy. Have you learned a bunch of algs for twisting corners+edges / how did you come up with that?


The ones I know are R U R2 F R F2 U F U2 and R U R' U F2 L F L' F U2, and I look at setups and variations of those


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## okayama (Jul 24, 2016)

My solution from Kanto Summer 2016 (got 2nd place).
Shuto Ueno got 1st place with 28 moves. Congrats!

Scramble: R' U' F U' B2 U' B2 U' B2 R2 B' R' D2 U F R2 B R B D L2 F2 R' U' F
Solution: D2 F2 B' U' B2 U' L U L2 U L D L' U' L F' L F L U2 L' F D2 F' L U2 L' F D2 (29 moves)


Spoiler



Firstly I found the following start:

2x2x1 block: D2 F2
2x2x2 block: B D
F2L minus 1 slot: U2 L2 U F' L F L F

but I couldn't find any good continuation.
L' leaves 4 corners and 3 edges, but I couldn't manage it.

In the remaining time, I found the following skeleton.

1st square: D2 F2
2nd square: B' U' B2 U' L
3rd square: U L' * D
All but 3CP+2CO: F' L + F2

Insert at *: L' U L D L' U' L D'

For the remaining 2CO, I don't have enough time, so I add

Twist 2 corners: (F' L U2 L' F D2)x2

at the end of the skeleton. But if I moved back 1 move, I should have found

Insert at +: (L2 F D' R2 D F')x2

which results in 28 moves. 

IF says optimal insertions give 26 moves.

I found another 28-move solution, not difficult, which also should have been found in 1-hour...

1st square: D2 F2
2nd square: B' U' B2 U' L
3rd square: U L' F' D
4th square: F' D' F2 D
Finish F2L: F L
LL: U' F D' F' U D F2 D' F' D F


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## uesyuu (Jul 27, 2016)

My winning solution from Kanto Summer 2016.

scramble: R' U' F U' B2 U' B2 U' B2 R2 B' R' D2 U F R2 B R B D L2 F2 R' U' F
solution: D2 F2 B' R L B' R B' L2 B R2 B' L2 B2 L' B2 L' R B R' L U' F U F' D F U' (28moves)



Spoiler



normal
premove: D F
222: D2 F2

switch to inverse
222: U F' D'
223: F U' F'
F2L-1: U L' R B' R' L
L4C: B R B R' B

skeleton: D2 F2 B' R B' R' * B' L' R B R' L U' F U F' D F U'
inserted at * = R B L B' R' + B L' B'
inserted at + = R2 B' L2 B R2 B' L2 B


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## Cale S (Jul 30, 2016)

official 23 at US Nationals 
finally beat my first official attempt



Spoiler



R' U' F L2 R2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 U L2 F' U2 L' F2 D R2 B' L' R' D' F' R' U' F

(U) U' // square
(D' F' D) // extend to roux block + square out of nowhere
B // another square
R B2 // Blocks™
(U' B' U' B F') F' // F2L
(F' D2 B R' B R B2 D2 F L') // ZBLL

Final solution: U' B R B2 F' L F' D2 B2 R' B' R B' D2 F2 B' U B U D' F D U' (23)


my first attempt:


Spoiler



R' U' F L' B2 R' U2 L2 R2 F2 R B' L2 B D R' D2 B' U D F2 U2 R' U' F

(U) F' L' B2 D // EO + 4 pairs
F' L2 B R' B (D2 R') // blocks
D2 F L2 F' L' D2 // to L4C

F' L' B2 D F' L2 B @ R' B D2 F L2 F' L' D2 R D2 # U'
@ = [B, L F' L']
# = [R, U L2 U']

Final solution: F' L' B2 D F' L' F' L' B L F L' R' B D2 F L2 F' L' D2 R D2 R U L2 U' R U' L2 U2
30 moves

terrible insertions
optimal insertions are 28


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## Ranzha (Jul 31, 2016)

My solutions from US Nationals 2016:

Moves in parentheses are on inverse.

1. R' U' F L' B2 R' U2 L2 R2 F2 R B' L2 B D R' D2 B' D U F2 U2 R' U' F (27)


Spoiler



Cool thing that led nowhere fast:
U F2 L U B // 2x2x2 [5]
R F U D R' D' U // F2L-1 missing an edge [7/12]

What I then worked with:
U F2 L U B // 2x2x2 [5]
(R F' R2) // 2 pairs?!?! [3/8]
F2 R U' F' // square [4/12]
U R U R' F2 U // 3c2e twisted [6/18]

*Skeleton: U F2 L U B F2 R U' F' U R U (1) R' F2 U R2 F R'*
Insertion (1): D' F' D2 R' D' R2 F' R' F2
Note: possible alternate insertion F2 U' F' U2 L' U' L2 F' L' at the same point

Insertion Finder can't do these kinds of insertions apparently. This is one of the only times that it's paid to know the 6- to 9-move LL set.

Final: U F2 L U B F2 R U' F' U R U D' F' D2 R' D' R2 F' R' F2 R' F2 U R2 F R' (27)



2. R' U' F L2 R2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 U L2 F' U2 L' F2 D R2 B' L' R' D' F' R' U' F (26)


Spoiler



(D' B D U B) // 2x2x2 [5]
(D2 L' D L2) // square [4/9]
(B D B' D2 U' F' U F') // Good 6 corners [8/17]

*Skeleton: (D' B D U B D2 (1) L' D L2 B D B' D2 U' F' U F')*
Insertion (1): ([D R D', L']) // cancels 5
*New skeleton: (D' B D U B D' R (2) D' L' D R' L2 B D B' D2 U' F' U F')* [20]
Insertion (2): ([L', D' R D]) // cancels 2

Optimal insertions! 

Final: F U' F U D2 B D' B' L2 R D' L R D L' D' R' D L R' D B' U' D' B' D (26)



3. R' U' F D U2 R2 B2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U B D B2 R F' L2 D' L' R B2 F' R' U' F (32)


Spoiler



Stuff I found at the beginning:
(U F' L D') // ps2x2x2 [4]
L' F U2 F' D2 // ps2x2x3 [5/9]
(D) // cancel the pseudo! [1-2/8]

Stuff I tried working with for the majority of the time:
L' F U2 F' D2 // [5]
(U' F U') // square [3/8]
Here I had a few options, namely:
- (F U' F' L F2) // this turned out being awful [5/13]
- (F U' F' L F) // [5/13]
- (F2 U' F' L F) // [5/13]
I tried not solving the square (i.e. psF2L-1), but didn't have enough time/focus to explore everything.

So at 49 minutes and no skeleton, I worked with my backup skeleton:
(U F' L D') // ps2x2x2 [4]
L' F U2 F' D2 // ps2x2x3 [5/9]
(D) // cancel the pseudo! [1-2/8]
(U2 F2 U F' U2 F2) // F2L-1 [6/14]
(U' R U2 R' F' U F R U' R' U) // ab3e [11/25]

*Skeleton: L' F U2 F' D2 U' R U R' F' U' F R U2 R' U (1) F2 U2 F U' F2 U2 L' F U'*
Insertion (1): L2 D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F // cancels 1

Final: L' F U2 F' D2 U' R U R' F' U' F R U2 R' U L2 D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F' U2 F U' F2 U2 L' F U' (32)


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## Chree (Jul 31, 2016)

Just curious if anyone's tried this before:

Finding your PB distance from optimal.

For instance, if your find a 32 move solution on a cube that's a scramble that was a 17 move optimal cube state, your distance from optimal was 15. 

You could do a sum/mean as well:
42 moves on 15 optimal. Distance: 27.
38 moves on 18 optimal. Distance: 20.
35 moves on 13 optimal. Distance: 22.
Sum of distance: 69.
Mean of distance: 23.


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## BboyArchon (Jul 31, 2016)

Scramble from Euros (don't remember which one)

SCRAMBLE: R' U' F L' R U2 B2 F2 R' D2 R2 F2 L F D' B' U2 L F' U R' B2 F' U R' U' F
SOLUTION: F' R F' U D2 B' L2 B U B' F' U' R' F2 B U2 B' U' B U' B2 R B2 U B' U' R' U L' U' L (31 moves)

Premoves: L' U L (3/3)
Starting 2X2X2: F' R F' U D2 (single insertion) B' L2 (7/10)
F2L-1: B U B' F' U' R' F2 (7/17)
Ending: B U2 B' U' B U' B2 R B2 U B' U' R' U (14/31) (pair + cancellation into F sexy F' and Pll skip)

Any tips or other ways to do this scramble? Thanks ^^


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## Bubtore (Aug 1, 2016)

My solution on the 2nd scramble at European champs :

Scramble // R' U' F L' R U2 B2 F2 R' D2 R2 F2 L F D' B' U' L F' U R' B2 F' U R' U' F
Inverse // F' U R U' F B2 R U' F L' U B D F' L' F2 R2 D2 R F2 B2 U2 R' L F' U R

F' B R' // EO
(R2 U' F U) // P223
F2 D2 // 223
(B2 L2 B L2) // F2L-1
(B D' B2 D B') // 2E2C

Skel // F' B R' F2 D2 B D' B2 D B' L2 B' L2 B2 U' * F' U R2 - 18
* U B U B' U R2 D' F D R2 U (11-3)

Solution // F' B R' F2 D2 B D' B2 D B' L2 B' L2 B' U B' U R2 D' F D R2 U F' U R2 - 26

The other 2 attempts weren't that good nor special to share them


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## brandbest1 (Aug 2, 2016)

FMC PB!!! Sub-30 we're getting there...

Scramble: U2 D2 R L2 U2 D F' U L' R2 B2 U L2 U D R2 D L2 R'

U' R D' B D L2 B' U2 // 2x2x3 (8)
D' L2 D // stuff (3)
(inverse) D' L2 D2 F2 D' L F L2 // all but 5 corners (8)

Skeleton: U' R D' B D L2 B' U2 D' L2 D L2 F' L' D * F2 ^ D2 L2 D (19)

Insert at *: D' R U' R' D R U R'
Insert at ^: F D B2 D' F' D B2 D'

Final solution: U' R D' B D L2 B' U2 D' L2 D L2 F' L' R U' R' D R U R' F' D B2 D' F' D B2 D L2 D (31)

Could've spent more time looking for much better insertions but I got lazy...


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## TheDubDubJr (Aug 2, 2016)

My FMC solutions from US Nationals 2016.
Congrats to Brandon, Cale and Mark for Finishing 1st, 2nd and 3rd on a very close Podium.

If I could say 1 word on my attemps, especially on my 3rd attempt, I would call them "unlucky" on both cancellations and choice of skeletons.



Spoiler: Attempt #1 - 30



n: R' U' F L' B2 R' U2 L2 R2 F2 R B' L2 B D R' D2 B' D U F2 U2 R' U' F
i: F' U R U2 F2 U' D' B D2 R D' B' L2 B R' F2 R2 L2 U2 R B2 L F' U R

start on normal
n: U F2 L U B // 2x2x2
U' F U' R // PS 2x2x3
switch
i: R' // fix PS
L F' L' U // PS F2L-1
F2 U F' U' F R' F2 R F U2 // 24 to L3C

Skeleton: U F2 L U B U' F U' R U2 F' R' F2 R F' U F U' F2 ([2] F2 L' B L F2 L' B' L) U' L F L' R

Final: U F2 L U B U' F U' R U2 F' R' F2 R F' U F U' L' B L F2 L' B' L U' L F L' R (30)

Optimal Insertions 
This was an insanely hard scramble. EO was absolute crap.





Spoiler: Attempt #2 - 29



n: R' U' F L2 R2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 U L2 F' U2 L' F2 D R2 B' L' R' D' F' R' U' F
i: F' U R F D R L B R2 D' F2 L U2 F L2 U' F2 R2 U L2 D2 R2 L2 F' U R 

start on normal
n: F D' U' // EO + 1 pair
B2 // PS 2x2x2
switch
i: L' B' // Fix PS
F' L' F2 L D2 L' B' L2 B L' D2 // 17 to L5C

Skeleton: F D' U' B2 D2 L ([2]234 D B' U2 B D' B' U2 B) B' L2 B L D2 L' F2 L ([2]512 R2 F' L F R2 F' L' F) F' B L 

Final: F D' U' B2 D2 L D B' U2 B D' B' U2 L2 B L D2 L' F2 L R2 F' L F R2 F' L' B L (29)

Optimal Insertions on this 17 to L5C. I also checked nested on all insertions to make sure there wasn't anything that cancelled 3+.

I also found a 19 to L5C that optimal insertions gave a 28.
That Skeleton: (B L2 U2 R B' U2 F' D' F B' U' B' U' R2 B U B' R2 U)

Terrible Cancellation luck and unlucky that the backup skeleton cancelled more.





Spoiler: Attempt #3 - 28



n: R' U' F D U2 R2 B2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U B D B2 R F' L2 D' L' R B2 F' R' U' F
i: F' U R F B2 R' L D L2 F R' B2 D' B' U' R2 F2 R2 U2 B2 R2 U2 D' F' U R

start on normal
n: R' U2 L' // EO
switch
i: B' U' B // PS 2x2x2
switch
n: B2 // Fix PS
switch
i: F D F2 D F U F' U' // 15 to Bad 6, BUT I saw that I could save some moves like this.
(edit) i: U F D F2 D U' // 13 to Bad 6 corners

Skeleton: R' U2 L' B2 U D' F2 D' ([5] U' B U F' U' B' U F) F' U' B' U B // 16 to L5C

I found this Bad L6C skeleton with about 18 minutes left and I picked one of the first insertions that cancelled 4 or more moves. After finding this one that cancelled 5, I had about 13-12 minutes left.

New Skeleton: R' U2 L' B2 U D' F2 D' U' ([2]345 L2 B R' B' L2 B R B') B U ([2]123 U' F U B U' F' U B') F' U' B2 U B

Final: R' U2 L' B2 U D' F2 D' U' L2 B R' B' L2 B R F U B U' F' U B' F' U' B2 U B (28)

I wrote down with 28 as a backup and made sure it worked. I had a little extra time so I checked nested on 2 of my insertions. While checking nested on one of them, I found an insertion that cancelled 8 moves with about 1 minute left. I quickly wrote that possible 22 but I quickly checked it and it didn't work so I submitted the 28. Later I found out that I did a move wrong on my cube so that nested insertion was actually never a possibility. 

The new skeleton that was a 16 to L5C was an optimal 28 which I found. 
Optimal on the 13 to Bad 6 was a 25 on a first insertion that cancelled 5moves, which was 2 moves in front of the 5move cancelled insertion that I found. (I find insertions back to front so I don't waste time solving and scrambling the cube again, so if I checked 2 moves later I could have found that insertion)

I also found a first insertion that cancelled 4moves in the same spot as my own first insertion that cancelled 5moves (D B2 D' F' D B2 D' F). Optimal for that was a 27.

With this very close Podium, 1 move better would have gotten me 3rd. 2 moves better would have gotten me tied for 1st while a 25 would have gotten me alone for 1st place.


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## Joey VOV (Aug 2, 2016)

My best solve from us nats 2016. For the other 2 I was super pressed for time and rushed. 

1. R' U' F L' B2 R' U2 L2 R2 F2 R B' L2 B D R' D2 B' D U F2 U2 R' U' F (30)
All on normal:
F' U F' U F / 221
D B U2 / 222 in 8 moves but some pairs too
L F' L D2 L' / another 221
D' F' L' D F' ^ D2/ F2L-1 in 19 but some good looking stuff
L2 D F L' F' D' L / to 3 corners in 26

^ = F U F' D2 F U' F' D2 ayyy 4 canceled and optimal

Final Solution: F' U F' U F D B U2 L F' L D2 L' D' F' L' D U' F' D2 F U F' L2 D F L' F' D' L


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## Cale S (Aug 3, 2016)

revisited the 3rd scramble of Nationals since there were lots of nice EO starts

R' U' F D U2 R2 B2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U B D B2 R F' L2 D' L' R B2 F' R' U' F

R' U2 L' // EO
(B' U' B F) B2 D' F2 // 2x2x3
D R2 D2 // F2L minus corner
(F') F' // shift block
U' B U' B' U2 // L4C

R' U2 L' B2 D' F2 D R2 D2 F' U' @ B U' B' U2 B' U ^ B 
@ = [D', B U' B']
^ = [U' F' U, B']

Final solution: R' U2 L' B2 D' F2 D R2 D2 F' U' D' B U' B' D U2 B' F' U B' U' F U B2
*25 moves
*
combining this with my 23 and Mark's 26 makes a 24.67 mean


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## porkynator (Aug 3, 2016)

Cale S said:


> R' U' F D U2 R2 B2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U B D B2 R F' L2 D' L' R B2 F' R' U' F



I've tried this scramble too and got a 25 as well.

L' B2 R //Same EO (3/3)
D2 F //Pseudo Block and a Pair (2/5)
(U' F2 U2 F2) //Square (4/9)

At this point I have found the same skeleton in two different ways:
#1
(B' U2) //3x2x1 (2/11)
U2 B' //Another Pair (2/13)
L2 B2 D' B' D //Square, restore the Block and another Pair (5/18)
L2 U //All but 3 corners, 1 move cancels (1/19)

#2
(B' U) //Pseudo F2L (who cares about EO anyway?) (2/11)
U2 B' L' B //F2L-1 and Pair in Slot (4/15)
(L2 D' B D B2 L B) //All but 3 corners

Skeleton L' B2 R D2 F U2 B' L2 B2 D' B' D L2 U' * B F2 U2 F2 U
* = D' F D B D' F' D B' //L3C (6/25)

Solution: L' B2 R D2 F U2 B' L2 B2 D' B' D L2 U' D' F D B D' F' D F2 U2 F2 U


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## guysensei1 (Aug 4, 2016)

S: D2 B L2 R2 F2 R2 U2 L2 D' F L' F L U' L' B' L B2 R'

Normal: U F R F2//2x2x2
Inv: D' R' B2 B'//XXcross
Normal: U R2 U'//F2L-1
D' R' F' R F D R'//AB5C
Skeleton: U F ** R F2 U R2 U' D' R' F' R F D R' B D2 R *D
*=B U B' D B U' B' D'
**=U' L' U R2 U' L U R2
31 moves
First time doing insertions in an actual serious attempt, missed optimal by 3 moves but I'm happy that I can do reasonable insertions now


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## Cale S (Aug 4, 2016)

retried the first scramble of US Nationals with my start and

R' U' F L' B2 R' U2 L2 R2 F2 R B' L2 B D R' D2 B' U D F2 U2 R' U' F

(U) F' L' B2 D // EO + 4 pairs
F' L2 B // 2squarez
R' // pseudo 2x2x2
(L) // square
(F2 L2 F2) // more blocks
(F' R F R2 D2 L B' L') // L3C

F' L' B2 D F' L2 B R' L B L' D2 R2 F' R' F' @ L2 F2 L' U'
@ = [F R F', L]

Final solution: F' L' B2 D F' L2 B R' L B L' D2 R2 F2 L F R' F' L F2 L' U'
*22 moves*

with this and the 23 and 25 I found on the other scrambles it makes a 23.33 mean


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## guysensei1 (Aug 4, 2016)

27 and 30 move FMC solves that are pretty straightforward lol

27: B2 F2 U L2 B2 U B2 U' B2 F' R D' L' R' B' F2 R D2 B2 L'


Spoiler



L U' R2 F R//2x2x2
B' L R B L' B' R'//XXcross
U' D' B D B'//insert pair
*L' U*//F2L
*U' L'* F' L2 F L' F' L2 F L U//LL
Final: L U' R2 F R B' R L B L' B' R' U' D' B D B' L2 F' L2 F L' F' L2 F L U(27)

Pretty nice multislotting to finish F2L, and nice 1LLL case with cancellations



30: L' B' R L2 U2 D F2 U2 B D2 F2 R2 D L2 U' R2 U L2 U' F2


Spoiler



on inverse, 
U' B L R F2//1 move to Xcross
D' R2 D//1 move to XXcross
R2 D R2 B R B'//F2L-1, EO
D' B F D' B' *D F'*//insert last pair, OLL skip
*F D2* F' D' F D2 B' D F' D' B D'//J perm
Final: D B' D F D' B D2 F' D F D B D F' B' D B R' B' R2 D' R2 D' R2 D F2 R' L' B' U (30)
Was trying to create some blocks on LL and the pair decided to sort itself out too, lol


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## okayama (Aug 6, 2016)

My winning solutions from Cube Camp in Kanazawa 2016.

1st scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 L2 U2 L2 U2 B F2 R' F L' U2 B' D U L D B' R U' R' U' F
1st solution: F B' R' B' U2 F2 L' D' L' U R' U' R2 U R U' R' U2 R L' U' L F2 R U (25 moves)


Spoiler



Here is 20 min backup solution (26 moves).

Orient edges: F B' R' B'
2x2x2 block: U2 F2 L' D' L'
Pseudo 2x2x3: U R U R

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: R' U' R' U' L D L F2 U2 B R B F'

2x2x3 block: U' R'
F2L minus 1 slot: F2 L' U L
Forced LL skip: U2 R U2 R' U' R U R'

In the next 5 min, I found:

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L' U' L F2 R U

Orient edges: F B' R' B'
2x2x3 block: U2 F2 L' D' L'
F2L minus 1 slot: U R' U' R'
Forced LL skip: R' U R U' R' U2 R
Correction: L' U' L F2 R U



2nd scramble: R' U' F D' R2 U B2 L2 U' B2 F L D2 U R U' F' U2 B' D' B R' U' F
2nd solution: B F2 R D F' L' F2 R2 D' F L' F' R2 F L F' R' D' R' D' R' D R2 D' R2 F2 R' L' D2 R (30 moves)


Spoiler



Here is 20 min backup solution (31 moves).

Pre-scramble: L2 R'

Orient edges: B F2 R D F'
1x2x3 block: L U2 R L'
More block: U' L U2 R'
F2L minus 1 slot: D2 R' D R U
Finish F2L: D' L D' L'
LL: L' D' L D' L' D2 L D'
Correction: L2 R'

In the remaining time, I found the following solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F2 L F D' R' F2 B'

2x2x2 block: R' D2 L
2x2x3 block: R F2

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: F2 R' L' D2 R

Orient edges: B F2 R D F'
2x2x3 block: L' F2
F2L minus 1 slot: R2 D' * R D2
All but 3 corners: D R' D' R' D R2 D' R2
Correction: F2 R' L' D2 R

Insert at *: F L' F' R2 F L F' R2



3rd scramble: R' U' F D2 B F U2 B' U2 R2 F' U L' F2 U' F L2 U L2 B F' U R' U' F
3rd solution: L' D' R' F2 L U' R' U2 F' D2 F L2 R' D' L2 R' F' L B2 L' F L B' R B' L D R D2 (29 moves)


Spoiler



Here is 20 min backup solution (30 moves).

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: R L' D L

1x2x3 block: (ready)
2x2x3 block: L2 U2 B' D2 B U
F2L minus 1 slot: F' D2

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: D' F U' B' D2 B U2 L2

F2L minus 1 slot: L' D' L R' D' *
Finish F2L: F D F D'
All but 3 corners: L' U2 R U R' U L
Correction: D' F U' B' D2 B U2 L2

Insert at *: L2 F R F' L2 F R' F'

In the remaining time, I found the following solution.

(Normal)

1x2x2 block: L' D' R'
1x2x3 block: F2 L
2x2x3 block: U' R' U2
F2L minus 1 slot: F' D2 F L2
All but 3 corners: R' D' L' R' + B R B' L D R D2

Insert at +: L' F' L B2 L' F L B2



Mean of 3: 25, 30, 29 = 28


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## rybaby (Aug 7, 2016)

Find the CMLL skip and you will be my best friend:

Scramble:
F2 D' R2 U' L2 F2 L2 D L2 D2 L R' D B U' F' R2 U' F2 U 

z x R' Uw' F' R2 U' // first block
??? // SB

EO for LSE was a four flip


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## TheCoolMinxer (Aug 7, 2016)

R' U' F D2 B2 R2 D2 U2 F2 L2 F D R' B2 F2 L' F' L' F R F U' R' U' F

(L D2 B U' L' U2 L2) //2x2x2
B U //2x2x3
(B R' B R B) //F2L-1
D' R 'F D' F' D2 //L5C
my skeleton so far: B' U' D' R' F D' F' @ D2 B' R' B' R B' L2 U2 L U B' D2 L' 
I don't know how to do insertions with 5 corners, so I solved 2 wih a comm after the skeleton: U F U' B2 U F' U' B2
then insert @= F' D B' D' F D B D', cancels 2 moves yay

final solution: B' U' D' R' F D' F2 D B' D' F D B D B' R' B' R B' L2 U2 L U B' D2 L' U F U' B2 U F' U' B2 (34 moves.)

does somebody want to finish the skeleton (inserting the 5 corners), sub30 could be possible (?).
Still, I am proud of myself that I found a nice skeleton, considering the very bad scramble/start


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## mycube (Aug 7, 2016)

Some of the craziest scrambles I have seen at a comp so far:
R' U' F R2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U' R2 F R2 D2 B2 R B2 R2 D' B F D' R' U' F

Scramble is from N8W8 Summer 2016, how about to have a look?

I only found a 24 (at home, was not at the comp), which is kind of disappointing.


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## Hssandwich (Aug 7, 2016)

mycube said:


> Some of the craziest scrambles I have seen at a comp so far:
> R' U' F R2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U' R2 F R2 D2 B2 R B2 R2 D' B F D' R' U' F
> 
> Scramble is from N8W8 Summer 2016, how about to have a look?
> ...


I haven't spent much time on it but I came up with this silly thing which solves F2L-2E and leaves you with 20 moves to 5E if you want 
(F D B R' U R D' U' R U R') //11
(F U2 F2 L F L' F U2 F') //20
IF can only cancel 2 moves from insertions though :/

Just found this, however:

D2 B' D' R D' U' R2 // 223 or Pseudo F2L-1 (7/7)
U //F2L-1 (1/8) !!


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## Cale S (Aug 7, 2016)

I found a 23 which is 21 in STM (just like my official pb)

D2 B' D' R U' D' R2 U // F2L - 1
(L F' L' F2) // some stuff

D2 B' D' R U' D' R2 U F2 @ L F L'
@ = R U L' U' R' L F' L F L' // to L3C

D2 B' D' R # U' D' R2 U F2 R U L' U' R' L F' L F2 L'
# = [R' D' R, U2]

Final solution: D2 B' D2 R U2 R' D R U D' R2 U F2 R U L' U' R' L F' L F2 L'


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## porkynator (Aug 7, 2016)

mycube said:


> Some of the craziest scrambles I have seen at a comp so far:
> R' U' F R2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U' R2 F R2 D2 B2 R B2 R2 D' B F D' R' U' F
> 
> Scramble is from N8W8 Summer 2016, how about to have a look?
> ...



I have found a 25


Spoiler



On inverse
D2 B' U L2 U' B2 D2
R F' U F
R' U R2 U'
D' F' R F R F' R' F D R2



Another 25


Spoiler



D2 B' D2
R U' R2
D R' D' U
F L F' L'
F * L F2 L' F
* = F2 L' B L F2 L' B' L



And some nice skeletons. All but 3 edges and 3 corners in 13


Spoiler



(F R U R U)
(R D B')
D B U' B' U
(IF finishes in 25)



And all but 7 edges and 3 corners in 4 moves

@ R' U' R2 * F

@ = F' B U2 F B' R2
* = U' F + D F' U F D' F'
+ = F2 D U' R2 & U D'
& = B' R' L U2 R L' B'

But the insertions I have found give a 26.


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## shadowslice e (Aug 9, 2016)

Has anyone tried a pure comms FMC before? Not saying it would be good but it could be interesting like a very well cancelled 3-style solve.


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## Berd (Aug 9, 2016)

shadowslice e said:


> Has anyone tried a pure comms FMC before? Not saying it would be good but it could be interesting like a very well cancelled 3-style solve.


Edge comms use slice moves a lot, resulting in lengthy solutions.


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## shadowslice e (Aug 9, 2016)

Berd said:


> Edge comms use slice moves a lot, resulting in lengthy solutions.


Well, I didn't say it would be good but it would be interesting to study. Plus a perfectly cancelled set would likely be close to if not optimal in almost every single circumstance (I'm not saying that you have to do edge->corners or vice versa but you can interlink them.


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## Daniel Lin (Aug 10, 2016)

Berd said:


> Edge comms use slice moves a lot, resulting in lengthy solutions.



not really, usually just 1-2 more moves. And plus for edges you can move the moves around like R' L F2 R L' U2=L F2 R L' U2 R, which gives more possibilities



shadowslice e said:


> Plus a perfectly cancelled set would likely be close to if not optimal in almost every single circumstance


how do you know? regular 3style is almost 100 moves STM, I don't think you could get sub 30 just by doing cycles differently


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## Cale S (Aug 10, 2016)

this is a fun scramble:
L' F2 D2 B2 U2 R D2 L' D2 U2 L' U' F' D' L R2 D' B2 U R'

found two 24's, went with this one:
(U R' B') // EO + pairs
(D' R U' R L D L' D) // to 3e4c

D L % D' L' R' @ U R' D ^ B R U'
@ = R L' B2 R' L U2 // edge cycle, 13 to 4 corners
^ = [D', B U' B']
% = [L, B R2 B']

Final solution: D' L2 B R2 B' L' B R2 B' D' L2 B2 R' L U' R' B U' B' D B U R U'
24 moves


13 to 4 corners is pretty good


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## Emilien (Aug 14, 2016)

yay 20 HTM on the weekly FMC !



Spoiler



Scramble : R L2 U2 L' F2 B L' F2 R' U2 F D' L F' B' L2 R F' U2 R'
Inverse : R U2 F R' L2 B F L' D F' U2 R F2 L B' F2 L U2 L2 R'

(B' R2 D2 B D2 L') // 2x2x2 (6)
U' L R' F' L' F2 R2 F R // F2Ls (9)
R' U' F' U F R U // LL (7-2 = 5)

After da switch, dat is optimal

Solution :

U' L R' F' L' F2 R2 F U' F' U F R U L D2 B' D2 R2 B


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## BQ (Aug 14, 2016)

My solution on Cross-strait Cubing Exchange 2016. I got the first runner-up with all results are 27 moves.

1. R' U' F U2 R2 U2 L B2 F2 R' F2 D' F' D' L B' L' D B L' U R' U' F


Spoiler



NISS
pseudo 223: L2 F' D2 F2 # D U
NISS
pseudo 233: U B' * U' B L' U'
l4c: U' F' R' F R U F2 L'
*: B D' B' U' B D B' U
#: F2 L B2 L' F2 L B2 L'

Final solution:
U D' B' U' B D L' U2 F' R' F R U F2 L' U' D' L B2 L' F2 L B2 L' D2 F L2 (27)
Insertion was optimal. It's really lucky with 8 moves cancellation.



2. R' U' F D2 U2 F2 D2 R2 D2 B D2 L2 B2 R' F' D2 L F2 L' R' U B R F R' U' F


Spoiler



222: U2 R2 B' * R2 D2
223: L' B2 L2
NISS
pseudo 233: R' U' R U
L3C: U' B2 U B R B' R' B' U' B2 U2
*: U L U' R2 U L' U' R2

Final solution:
U2 R2 B' U L U' R2 U L' U' D2 L' B2 L2 U2 B2 U B R B R' B' U' B2 R' U R (27)



3. R' U' F D2 R' D2 R U2 F2 D2 B2 L' U' F2 R F' L2 B U R' B D R' U' F


Spoiler



pseudo 223: F # U R2 U' R' U B' D2 U B2
l4c: D R' D * R D2 R' D' R' U'
*: D' R U R' D R U' R'
#: F' U' F D2 F' U F D2

Final solution:
U' F D2 F' U F D2 U R2 U' R' U B' D2 U B2 D U R' D R U' D2 R' D' R' U'
Insertion was optimal. It's really lucky again with 8 moves cancellation.


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## sqAree (Aug 17, 2016)

A while ago I posted a noobish 40 moves solve with OLL+PLL and asked for advice. I'm doing the same again now except that I improved a bit. 

Scramble: D2 R2 F B' D L2 R' U R B' U2 L2 B2 F' U D' L U R

B2 R U F' //square (4/4)
L U' L2 //another square (3/7)
U R2 //2x2x3 (2/9)
F2 D' F' //yet another square (3/12)
D' //pseudo F2L-1, premove D2 (1/13)
(F' D' F2 D) //orient an edge (4/17)
(D R' D' R F) // to L5C (cancels to 4/21)
D2 //undo premove (1/22)

Skeleton: B2 R U F' L @ U' L2 U R2 F2 D' F' # D' F' R' D R D2 F2 D F D2 (22 moves)

@ = [R, U' L' U]
# = [B, D' F' D]

Solution: B2 R U F' L R U' L' U R' U' L' U R2 F2 D' F' B D' F' D B' D' R' D R D2 F2 D F D2 (31 moves, cancelled 7)

Apparently my insertions were optimal. pb by far btw, went from 37 to 31.


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## Cale S (Aug 19, 2016)

the first scramble of Michigan 2016 is really nice


Spoiler



R' U' F D R2 D' L2 F2 D2 U B D2 L' U2 F R D2 B2 F L2 U2 F2 R' U' F

first I found this 25 in about 15 minutes

(B' U2) // two squares
F' B2 (B2 F2) // 2x2x3
B L B' U (U) // F2L - 1
(L2 U' F U F') // EO + pair setup 
F' L2 F2 L2 F' L' F L' F' L' // insert pair + antisune

Final solution: F' B' L B' U F' L2 F2 L2 F' L' F L' F' L' F U' F' U L2 U' F2 B2 U2 B
25 moves


then I found 18 to 3 corners but optimal is only 25:

B U' // EO
(B' U2 R2) // roux block + square
R2 F2 B2 L' B F' // F2L - 1
F D2 F D2 R F2 R' D2 F2 // cool stuff to L3C

then I found 15 to good L6C, but insertions were bad

B L2 R' F // EO + square
@ D U2 R U2 // 2x2x3 + edges
@ = U R U' D' R D R' // to good L6C


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## Foul Cuber (Aug 19, 2016)

Im new to fmc could someone tell me what it is? Because I have no idea what it means, how to do it etc. Please do explain.


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## Daniel Lin (Aug 19, 2016)

Foul Cuber said:


> Im new to fmc could someone tell me what it is? Because I have no idea what it means, how to do it etc. Please do explain.


http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf

Can someone find a good insertion for this? i suck at insertions and IF isn't working, idk why


Spoiler



weekly scramble:R L2 U2 L' F2 B L' F2 R' U2 F D' L F' B' L2 R F' U2 R'

U D2 L D2 B L //2x2x2
U2 R2 U R2 //2x2x3
F U2 F' U2 F U2 L' U' L // to3e3c

I guess you could use an LL alg too, haven't found anything good tho


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## sqAree (Aug 19, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf
> 
> Can someone find a good insertion for this? i suck at insertions and IF isn't working, idk why
> 
> ...



IF works for me:


Spoiler



U D2 L D2 B [@1] L U2 R2 U R2 F U2 F' U2 F U2 L' U' L
Insert at @1: B2 D2 F2 R' F2 D2 B2 L'
After the 1st insertion: U D2 L D2 B' D2 F2 R' F2 D2 B2 U2 R2 U R2 F U2 [@2] F' U2 F U2 L' U' L
Insert at @2: U' B' U F U' B U F'
Fewest moves: 30. 5 moves cancelled
The final solution: U D2 L D2 B' D2 F2 R' F2 D2 B2 U2 R2 U R2 F U B' U F U' B U F2 U2 F U2 L' U' L


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## Jake Donnelly (Aug 19, 2016)

I don't know to how orient the edges, after I do f2l -1 I don't know what to do. Can someone plz help


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## shadowslice e (Aug 19, 2016)

Jake Donnelly said:


> I don't know to how orient the edges, after I do f2l -1 I don't know what to do. Can someone plz help


Look at Petrus, ZZ or the link posted above.


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## Jake Donnelly (Aug 19, 2016)

So if I do zz I have to orient the edges at the start of my solve or after f2l -1?


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## shadowslice e (Aug 19, 2016)

Jake Donnelly said:


> So if I do zz I have to orient the edges at the start of my solve or after f2l -1?


For ZZ, generally you do it at the start but if you read this, it will provide you with a very firm foundation for which to build your FMC techniques and skills on.


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## Jake Donnelly (Aug 19, 2016)

It says that u can orient the edges at the start but it limits block building but he says the best thing to do is partially orient the edges during block building so when u finish doing f2l -1 u can do a corner commutator to solve the rest of the cube


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## Jake Donnelly (Aug 20, 2016)

I don't know how to finish this solve 
Scramble: U2 R2 D F2 L2 R2 F2 U' B2 D2 B2 F' L2 F' L R B' F2 L' U F'
Hold blue in front and orange on top 
2x2x2: L F' L' U L
2x2x3: F R2 F' R' F' U2 F


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## tseitsei (Aug 20, 2016)

Jake Donnelly said:


> I don't know how to finish this solve
> Scramble: U2 R2 D F2 L2 R2 F2 U' B2 D2 B2 F' L2 F' L R B' F2 L' U F'
> Hold blue in front and orange on top
> 2x2x2: L F' L' U L
> 2x2x3: F R2 F' R' F' U2 F


My quick attempt and thought process with your start and without any fancy tricks:

Still holding blue in front and orange on top to be as clear as possible.
U' B' U // make a pair and orient it correctly
Now I tried the obvious B2 R B2 continuation to get F2L-1 but I was left with bad edge case so instead I did
R' B2 R2 //2X2X1 block
Now I could do simple B2 to make F2l-1 once again but I would leave yellow-blue edge with wrong orientation so I instead did
B R B // F2L-1 and all edges oriented
And now you have 2 options to finish the skeleton*:
1) The "normal" way leaving 5 corners to be solved:
U R2 U' R // solves everything but 5 corners
And then you would solve the remaining 5 corners with 2 corner insertions*.
2)corner+edge way leaving 3 corners and 3 edges to be solved:
R' // solves everything but 3 corners and 3 edges
And then you once again solve the remaining pieces with 1 edge insertion and 1 corner insertion.

*if you don't know what skeleton/insertion means and how to use them you can find out by reading the tutorial linked for you earlier this page 

EDIT: Another funny (luckyish) ending. Same until F2L-1 and then:
R U R U' //F2L + OLL skip (leaves J-perm)
D U Rw2 U' R' U Rw2 U' R D' R // move optimal J-perm + AUF


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## Jake Donnelly (Aug 20, 2016)

Thank u this has helped me a lot


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## Attila (Aug 20, 2016)

Scramble (from the German forum, ongoing comp.):
R' U' F D2 L2 D2 L U2 F2 R D2 B' D U' R' B2 L' U' F' U2 L D' R' U' F

I found this:


Spoiler



B' F D2 L B L' R D' F' D F' R2 D B2 U' R2 B U2 D2 F' U 21 moves (18 STM)

. R2 D @ R' B R' orient corners and 3 edges,
inserted moves:
. = S'
@ = B E B' 
after insertions: B' F D2 L B L' R D' F' D F' orient corners and 6 edges,
R2 D B2 U' R2 permute corners,
B U2 D2 F' U LSE.


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## Daniel Lin (Aug 22, 2016)

Cool edge commutator that might be useful for FMC
[F2 R2 F2, U2]
has this been already found? I got it by randomly turning 

EDIT: you can mirror it or do [R2, F2 U2 F2] or do the mirror of that, which
gives lots of possiblities for cancellations


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## guysensei1 (Aug 22, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> Cool edge commutator that might be useful for FMC
> [F2 R2 F2, U2]
> has this been already found? I got it by randomly turning
> 
> ...


Eh, optimal is 6 moves though, probably better to use optimal except in special cases.

I also know this commutator from half turn cube solving XD


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## Daniel Lin (Aug 22, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> Eh, optimal is 6 moves though, probably better to use optimal except in special cases.


8movers are still good(iirc Kit got a 21 with a 12 mover)

Are there any other "non-intuitive" comms?
The only other one I can think of is [R B L F, U]


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## Hssandwich (Aug 23, 2016)

A very stupid FMC solve:

D F2 R2 D L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D' L D' F D' L2 F L' D' B' F2


Spoiler



D F2 R2 D L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D' L D' F D' L2 F L' D' B' F2
i: F2 B D L F' L2 D F' D L' D L2 B2 L2 D2 L2 D' R2 F2 D'

B' //222 1
U R' F' R' //blocks 5 THIS PART IS THE STUPID PART
U2 //Pseudo F2L-1 6
(R F R) //F2L-1 + tripod block 9
U' R U R' 13 //F2L+OLL skip
(R' F R' F' U' R' U2 F' U' F U' R U R) //V-perm (cancels 4 moves  )

Solution: B' U R' F' R' U R U R2 U' R' U F' U F U2 R U F R F2 R'


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## Cale S (Aug 23, 2016)

R L2 U2 F2 R2 D' B2 U' F2 L2 D' R B F2 R' D' L U R U

(L R' U F) // EO
(D2 R' D') // pseudo 2x2x2
(U2 F2 R U') // to 3 edges and some corners

U R' F2 U2 D R @ D2 F' U' R L'
@ = R L2 D' L' D L' ^ R' // 17 to L3C
^ = [L F2 L', B2]

Final solution: U R' F2 U2 D R2 L2 D' L' D F2 L' B2 L F2 L' B2 D2 F' U' R L'

23 moves


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## Ranzha (Aug 25, 2016)

I did the Manhattan scrambles



Spoiler: 27



Scr: R' U' F U2 L2 B2 R B2 R2 U2 B2 L' B F2 D' L B' L2 F' D B2 L' F2 R' U' F

1-move pairs: R D(2) L2

Scrapped:
D (D F' R F D L R2) // 2x2x3
(U F2 L F L') // F2L-1

What I went with:
D (D2 L)
(F U R F)
(L2 B2 L' D L') // F2L-1
U L F' L' F // square
(L' U' L U') // pair
(R U2 L' U' L U2 R') // 3 pairs?!

Final: D U L F' L' F R U2 L' U L U2 R' U L' U L2 D' L B2 L2 F' R' U' F' L' D2 (27)





Spoiler: 28



Scr: R' U' F R' D2 F2 R' B2 R' D2 L2 D2 B' F2 U2 F' L U R2 F2 R' U2 L F' R' U' F

Something else I found:
(B’ D U2 R2 L2)
(U’ R U D)
B D B U

What I went with:
Backup skeleton found in first 6 minutes:
(B’ D U2)
(L R’ B R’ B’ (1) L U R)
(U B2 U’ B (2))

(1) [B D B’, U’] 345 8-2
(2) [B2, D F’ D’] 123 8-1

Final: D F’ D’ B2 D F D’ B U B2 U’ R’ U’ L’ U’ B D B’ U B D’ R B2 R L’ U2 D’ B (28)
Ugh this was optimal





Spoiler: 22



Scr: R' U' F L2 D L2 F2 U2 B2 D' B' U L' F' R B2 R D' F2 R D2 B2 R' U' F

(D') // two pairs?!
B2 // square
(U R2 B' L' D L' R F) // ps F2L-1
(D2) // ONE PAIR?!
(R' D B R' D R2 D' R B' D' R) // wat

Final: B2 R' D B R' D R2 D' R B' D' R D2 F' R' L D' L B R2 U' D (22)



Bonus: This week's David Adams (spoilers (duh))


Spoiler: 24



Scr: F' U' D' F2 L' B' F2 D2 R U' F' B D F' L U2 F L' R2 F2

L' D2 L R2 U2 B2 // 223 (6)
(F' D' F D R2 U' F' R2 F U) // AB3E (16)

skel L' D2 L R2 U2 B2 U' F' R2 F @ U R2 D' F' D F
@ F D' F' D U' R D R' D' U // 10-2

Final: L' D2 L R2 U2 B2 U' F' R2 F2 D' F' D U' R D R' D' U2 R2 D' F' D F (24)



Bonus bonus: After the hour, found this for the David Adams (also spoilers (also duh))


Spoiler: 21



L' F2 U2 L2 R' D2 // 223 (6)
U F2 U'
R F U' R2 // square
R' F' R F U2 F2 U' // 19 to 3C Optimal cancels 6 for a 21


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## Kit Clement (Aug 25, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> iirc Kit got a 21 with a 12 mover



And I'd never expect that to happen again for me


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## Bubtore (Aug 25, 2016)

Just did the first attempt from Indiana (where the NAR was done) and it already started greatly !

S // R' U' F U' R2 B2 D2 L2 D2 F2 U' B2 U R' F' R D2 L' U' B F2 D2 U B R' U' F
I // F' U R B' U' D2 F2 B' U L D2 R' F R U' B2 U F2 D2 L2 D2 B2 R2 U F' U R

(F U' D R) // 222
(D' = L B2 D) // 223
(B2 L B2 L B' L B2) // L4C

= D R2 D' L' D R2 D' L

Skel // B2 L' B L' B2 L' B2 D' B2 L2 D R2 D' L D + R D' U F' - 19
+ D R U R' D' R U' R'

Solution // B2 L' B L' B2 L' B2 D' B2 L2 D R2 D' L D2 R U R' D' R D' F' - 22 Moves

edit : second one is just as great !

S // R' U' F D2 R D2 F2 L B2 L' B2 L2 B' U2 F L B D' L U' R B D R' U' F
I // F' U R D' B' R' U L' D B' L' F' U2 B L2 B2 L B2 L' F2 D2 R' D2 F' U R

(L' D' B' D *) // EO
(F' D2 L' B' L') // 222
(D2 R' F' D2) // 223
(R' F2) // 4E

* L' U2 F2 U2 F2 U2 F2 L

Solution // F2 R D2 F R D2 L B L D2 F L' F2 U2 F2 U2 F2 U2 L D' B D L - 23 Moves

edit 2 : last one is 29, which makes 24.67 mo3 and because the best is also a 22 single it would have been tied first place.


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## guysensei1 (Aug 27, 2016)

FMC NR mean at Singapore 333 open! Here are my solutions, I dont have the actual scrambles so I just generated them on cube explorer. Any advice on how to improve?

Solve 1 (31)
Scramble: R' U' F L2 B L2 R2 B' F2 U2 B2 F2 U2 R' F L' F D' U' L' B2 U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



inverse:
D2 F B R' U R2//2x2x2 (6/6)
U2 B U B2 U' L2 B'//XXcross (7/13)
L' U' L//F2L-1 (3/16)
switch to normal:
R' U' R *U' B U B'*//F2L (7/23)
*B U' B' U2* F' U B U' F B' U2 B U B' U'//COLL, EPLL skip (15/38)
7 moves cancel
Final: R' U' R U F' U B U' F B' U2 B U B' U' L' U L B L2 U B2 U' B' U2 R2 U' R B' F' D2 (31)



Solve 2 (33)
Scramble: R' U' F L D2 R' U2 B2 U2 L B2 D2 R' U B2 U' B F R' F' U' B2 U R' U' F


Spoiler



R2 L' U//1x2x2 (3/3)
switch to inverse,
L' U2 B D F *D*//2x2x3 (6/9)
*D'* L' D2 F2 D'//EO+unintended reduction to 2gen (5/14)
switch to normal:
F2 L2 F L F'//F2L-1 (5/19)
L2 F' L2 F L F' L2 F//complete F2L (8/27)
L2 U' L' U L' U' L2 U//sune, PLL skip (8/35)
2 moves cancel
Final: R2 L' U F2 L2 F L F' L2 F' L2 F L F' L2 F L2 U' L' U L' U' L2 U D F2 D2 L F' D' B' U2 L (33)



Solve 3 (31)
Scramble: R' U' F L2 B2 R2 U2 L2 B R2 B R2 U2 R' U2 R D2 F' D R B2 R2 B R' U' F


Spoiler



Inverse:
L B2 R2 F' U2//2x2x2 (5/5) I first found B2 R2 F' U2 as a 2x2x2 but I couldn't find a good continuation so I inserted an L move at the start
R' D B' R2 D B'//2x2x3 (6/11)
R D' R2//F2L-1 (3/14)
switch to normal:
D' R' D R//complete F2L (4/18)
F' D' R' D R F D'//3 corners (7/25)

Skeleton: D' R' D R F' D' R' D R F D' R2 D R' * B D' R2 B D' R U2 F R2 B2 L'
*= R F L F' R' F L' F', 2 moves cancel
Final: D' R' D R F' D' R' D R F D' R2 D F L F' R' F L' F' B D' R2 B D' R U2 F R2 B2 L' (31)
Insertion was optimal according to insertion finder



31 moves was NR single briefly, then a friend of mine somehow got a 28 on the last scramble. He or I should be posting that solution here soon.

EDIT: Here's the NR single solve (the important parts anyway) by Teo Bin Jie, done on the last solve.


Spoiler



B' U R U F D' R2//2x2x3 -1 edge (7/7)
B' U L U' L' B2 U'//2x2x3 (7/14) yep, you read that right, 7 moves to solve a piece.
switch to inverse,
L2 B2 D L D' B//3 corners (6/20)
He did not find an insertion that cancelled, so he inserted an 8 move commutator somewhere to solve the cube. 20+8=28 moves. Optimal was 26 though.


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## gateway cuber (Aug 27, 2016)

I recently started doing FMC with roux it's kinda fun, right now my best is 37 moves, any tips?


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## Rcuber123 (Aug 27, 2016)

gateway cuber said:


> I recently started doing FMC with roux it's kinda fun, right now my best is 37 moves, any tips?



Try to not restrict yourself to a specific method. You will probably be better off with freestyle blockbuilding.
Also read sebastiens tutorial.


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## Berd (Aug 28, 2016)

My PB 40 move FMC solve. Any tips? I'm learning insertions atm. 

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_U2..._&#2b;_EO
L_D_L-_D-_L2_U_D_L-_D-_L_U-//_ZBLL_


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## guysensei1 (Aug 28, 2016)

Berd said:


> My PB 40 move FMC solve. Any tips? I'm learning insertions atm.
> 
> https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_U2_R-_U2_F2_R_D2_L_B2_L_F-_L-_B2_L2_B-_F-_R-_D_B_U&alg=R_F_D2_F_D-_U2_L2_U-_L2_B2_L-_R-_F-_R_//2x2x3 F-_L-_F_L_U-_L2_F-_L-_F_//EO_&#2b;_Pair L_U_L2_U_L_U-_//_F2L_&#2b;_EO L_D_L-_D-_L2_U_D_L-_D-_L_U-//_ZBLL_


That 2x2x3 is too long. Try for 2x2x3 in around 10-12 moves. Use NISS. The pros could probably sub-10 moves every time with NISS.


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## xyzzy (Aug 29, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> FMC NR mean at Singapore 333 open! Here are my solutions, I dont have the actual scrambles so I just generated them on cube explorer.



Congrats! That's a huge improvement over my previous NR, and I'm going to have to practise a lot to reclaim it at the next comp.


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## guysensei1 (Aug 29, 2016)

xyzzy said:


> Congrats! That's a huge improvement over my previous NR, and I'm going to have to practise a lot to reclaim it at the next comp.


I have actually done very few unofficial attempts between SG open and now. I have no idea how or why I improved this much.


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## Hssandwich (Aug 29, 2016)

Berd said:


> My PB 40 move FMC solve. Any tips? I'm learning insertions atm.
> 
> https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=L2_U2_R-_U2_F2_R_D2_L_B2_L_F-_L-_B2_L2_B-_F-_R-_D_B_U&alg=R_F_D2_F_D-_U2_L2_U-_L2_B2_L-_R-_F-_R_//2x2x3 F-_L-_F_L_U-_L2_F-_L-_F_//EO_&#2b;_Pair L_U_L2_U_L_U-_//_F2L_&#2b;_EO L_D_L-_D-_L2_U_D_L-_D-_L_U-//_ZBLL_


It's pretty easy to get sub 10 moves for a 2x2x3 with NISS, the rest isn't too bad, but if you use NISS, it should become much, much easier to do everything.


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## Genesis (Aug 29, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> FMC NR mean at Singapore 333 open! Here are my solutions, I dont have the actual scrambles so I just generated them on cube explorer. Any advice on how to improve?
> 
> Solve 1 (31)
> Scramble: U2 B D2 R2 B2 R2 B2 U B F' L' U F2 L2 U2 L2 R D L'
> ...



Something wrong with the second solution?


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## guysensei1 (Aug 29, 2016)

Genesis said:


> Something wrong with the second solution?


I've fixed it, and replaced the scrambles with the real ones. Thanks for pointing out.


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## Berd (Aug 29, 2016)

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=B2_U2...R_U_R-_U_R_U2_R-_U-_R_U_R-_U_R_U2_R-_//_ZBLL


Better blocks but a bad finish. Could anyone do better with my 2x2x3 + EO start?


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## guysensei1 (Aug 29, 2016)

Berd said:


> https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=B2_U2_B2_L-_D2_U2_F2_L-_U2_L-_B-_R_B2_U_B-_F-_D_L_R2_U&alg=L-_U_F_B-_D_//_2x2x2 B-_L_R-_U2_R_//_2x2x3 F_U-_F-_L_B-_U2_B_//_EO_&#2b;_Blocks U-_L_U-_L_U_L-_U2_L_U_L-_//_F2L R_U_R-_U_R_U2_R-_U-_R_U_R-_U_R_U2_R-_//_ZBLL
> 
> Better blocks but a bad finish. Could anyone do better with my 2x2x3 + EO start?


After your 223+EO,
U' L//F2L-1
L U L' U L U2 L'//AB5C

Now 'just' do 2 insertions.


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## ottozing (Aug 29, 2016)

26.33 OcR Mo3 explanations 



Spoiler: 27



R' U' F L2 D B2 F2 D U L2 D2 B L2 F L2 U B F' R B R' F' R' U' F

On inverse
R (Reduce to 4 bad edges + build 2 pairs)
Switch to normal
U2 F R (EO)
D' U B (Some solved 1x2x2's, leaving me 4 moves away from an F2L-1)
U' R' U' R U2 R' U' R
U' R2 F2 R2 U2 (3C)

Skeleton: U2 F R D' U B U' R' U' R U2 R' U' R U' R2 F2 R2 ^ U2 R' (20)

^ F U' B' U F' U' B U

Solution: U2 F R D' U B U' R' U' R U2 R' U' R U' R2 F2 R2 F U' B' U F' U' B U' R' (27)





Spoiler: 26



R' U' F L2 D2 L2 F U2 R2 B L2 D' B R U R B U2 F2 D2 F U2 R' U' F

F' (Reduce to 4 bad edges)
Switch to inverse
L R2 U B (EO)
Switch to normal
U' R' (1x2x2)
L' (1x2x2)
F2 R D (1x2x2)
B2 D2 F2 L2 (5C)

Skeleton: F' U' R' L' F2 * R D B2 D2 F2 L2 B' U' R2 L' (15)

* F' R' B2 R F R' B2 @ R
@ B L B' R2 B L' B' R2

Solution: F' U' R' L' F R' B2 R F R' B' L B' R2 B L' B' D B2 D2 F2 L2 B' U' R2 L' (26)





Spoiler: 26



R' U' F R' D2 L D2 R2 F2 R D2 L2 D2 F' D' B' U' F' U R2 F2 R U R' U' F

On inverse
R' B2 D' (2x2x2)
L' U L' U' B' U (2x2x3)
Switch to normal (Finish is easy to see on inverse but this is how I did it)
L' B2 L (EO)
B' U B U' B (5C)

Skeleton: L' B2 L B' U # B U' B U' B U L U' % L D B2 R (17)

# U R U' L2 U R' U' L2
% U L' U' R2 U L U' R2

Solution: L' B2 L B' U2 R U' L2 U R' U' L2 B U' B U' B R2 U L U' R2 L D B2 R (26)



Got optimal insertions on everything, so I guess it's nice that I didn't have a potential chance at OcR single?


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## Ranzha (Aug 30, 2016)

26 on the third Oregon scramble; wish I could've been there.

Found in about 15 minutes



Spoiler: 26



Scr: R' U' F R' D2 L D2 R2 F2 R D2 L2 D2 F' D' B' U' F' U R2 F2 R U R' U' F

on inverse
R U // square
switch? nah
F2 R2 // sub-optimal 2x2x2 but hey the pairs are still there
U' L2 U' B U2 B // F2L-2
B F U2 F' B' // F2L-1
B U' B' R' U2 @ R U2 // 19 to 3

@ B L B, R2 // cancels 1, optimal

Final: U2 R' U2 R B U F U2 B L2 B R2 B' L2 B R2 F' U2 B' U L2 U R2 F2 U' R' (26)


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## Bubtore (Aug 30, 2016)

Nice stuff with Insertions (from Dunas Open 2016)

S // R' U' F U F2 D L2 D R2 D2 B2 R2 D2 B2 F' R2 B U2 R D' U2 F' R' U' F
I // F' U R F U2 D R' U2 B' R2 F B2 D2 R2 B2 D2 R2 D' L2 D' F2 U' F' U R

L2 B' L2 // 122 + Pairs
(R' U F') // 123
(U B U2 D F U') // 4E2C

Skel // L2 B' L2 U F' + D' U2 B' U' F U' R * - 12
* R' B2 L U' L U L2 B2 R D
+ F D2 F' U D' L D2 L' U' D

Solution // L2 B' L2 U D2 F' U D' L D2 L' U B' U' F U' B2 L U' L U L2 B2 R D - 25 Moves


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## Iggy (Aug 31, 2016)

I somehow got motivated to practice FMC after my last comp. Did an attempt but got stuck

Scramble: D2 U2 L' D2 R2 B2 F2 U2 L' D2 L D' B L R2 U2 R F2 D F D'

inverse:
square: F’ R U’

normal
double x-cross: L R’ U’ L’ R’ D’ R F' R2

Couldn't find any good continuation. Help?


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## Berd (Aug 31, 2016)

So I need some help with insertions, could anyone help? It's the scramble for the weekly comp so watch out!



Spoiler: Weekly comp stuff inside!



So I basically found an 18 move skeleton to ab5c, and a want to use incersions to finish. I know one of the comms is (B' U' B D' B' U B D), but when I try to insert it randomly in, (to save moves) it doesn't work. Is this not how they work? Many thanks.

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F-_R-...D_R_D2_B-_R2_B_R2_L_D2_B-_D-_B-_D2_B-_L_D_L_D


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## Rcuber123 (Aug 31, 2016)

Berd said:


> So I need some help with insertions, could anyone help? It's the scramble for the weekly comp so watch out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


U don't need to do the same comms. You need to do different comms depending on the positions of the corners after each move


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## Hssandwich (Aug 31, 2016)

Berd said:


> So I need some help with insertions, could anyone help? It's the scramble for the weekly comp so watch out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Put stickers on the 3 stickers that need to cycle, then do the scramble. While doing the skeleton, check the position of the stickers after each move and see it you can do a commutator to swap them around (now look for cancellations).
Good luck


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## Berd (Aug 31, 2016)

Thanks for all the tips! I think I did it right...?



Spoiler: 30!!!



So I had this skeleton to ab5c + an L2:
D R D2 B' R2 B R2 L D2 B' D' B' D2 B' L D L D (18)
I then solved 2 corners with R' D' R U' R' D R U, inserting where the asterix is:

D R * D2 B' R2 B R2 L D2 B' D' B' D2 B' L D L D
This resulted in 4 moves canceling (I think!)!
So to ab3c + L2 is:
R U' R' D R U D2 B' R2 B R2 L D2 B' D' B' D2 B' L D L D (22)

I then solved the last 3 corners with L F L' B L F' L' B', inserting where the hashtag is:
R U' R' D R U D2 B' R2 B R2 L D2 # B' D' B' D2 B' L D L
The last B' goes with the B' from the skeleton, to create B2, canceling 1 move (again, I think.).

This gives me:
R U' R' D R U D2 B' R2 B R2 L D2 L F L' B L F' L' B2 D' B' D2 B' L D L D (29)

Then I just need to finish with L2, giving me this:

R U' R' D R U D2 B' R2 B R2 L D2 L F L' B L F' L' B2 D' B' D2 B' L D L D L2 (30)

So what does everyone think? Could I of done better? Thanks!

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F-_R-...D2_L_F_L-_B_L_F-_L-_B2_D-_B-_D2_B-_L_D_L_D_L2


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## Bubtore (Sep 1, 2016)

Fantastic Manhattan Competition 2016 Scrambles : 25.33 mo3



Spoiler: 25



S1 // R' U' F U2 L2 B2 R B2 R2 U2 B2 L' B F2 D' L B' L2 F' D B2 L' F2 R' U' F
I1 // F' U R F2 L B2 D' F L2 B L' D F2 B' L B2 U2 R2 B2 R' B2 L2 U2 F' U R

L2 F2 R' F' // EO
(B2 R' B2) // P222
U D2 L2 // P223
D' F2 D F2 L D L' F2 D' L' // L3C

Skel // L2 F2 R' F' U D2 L2 + D' F2 D F2 L D L' F2 D' L' B2 R B2 - 20
+ L U2 L' D' L U2 L' D

Solution // L2 F2 R' F' U D2 L' U2 L' D' L U2 L' F2 D F2 L D L' F2 D' L' B2 R B2 - 25 Moves





Spoiler: 24



S2 // R' U' F R' D2 F2 R' B2 R' D2 L2 D2 B' F2 U2 F' L U R2 F2 R' U2 L F' R' U' F

B2 R' // EO
B U' R * R L2 F D' F' D F U2 // 223
D2 B // 2E3C
* L R' B' R B L' B2 R' B2 R B'

Solution // B2 R' B U' L B' R B L' B2 R' B2 R B' R L2 F D' F' D F U2 D2 B - 24 Moves





Spoiler: 27



S3 // R' U' F L2 D L2 F2 U2 B2 D' B' U L' F' R B2 R D' F2 R D2 B2 R' U' F
I3 // F' U R B2 D2 R' F2 D R' B2 R' F L U' B D B2 U2 F2 L2 D' L2 F' U R

R2 B' U // EO
(B R2 B' R') // P222
(L' B' L2) // P223
L R2 // 223
(L' D2 L B D2) // F2L-1
(B R' B2 R B2) // L3C

Skel // R2 B' U L R2 B2 R' + B2 R B' D2 B' L' D2 L' B L R B R2 B' - 21
+ R' F' R B' R' F R B 

Solution // R2 B' U L R2 B2 R2 F' R B' R' F R B' R B' D2 B' L' D2 L' B L R B R2 B' - 27 Moves


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## Hssandwich (Sep 1, 2016)

A 32
D2 U2 B2 L2 F R2 U2 L2 F U' B2 U' L' U2 L2 B' R2 U' B2

U B D2 L' //EO
B' // square
L2 R2 D L2 //222
F2 D' F' D F //edges (7c)
Skeleton: * U B D2 L' B' L2 R2 D L2 F2 D' F' D F (14)
Insert at * R D R' $ U @ R D' R' U' (cancels 2)
Insert at @ D R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' (cancels 2)
Insert at $ R' D R U' R' D' R U (cancels 2)
Solution: R D R2 D R U' R' D' R U2 D R U2 R' D' R U2 D' R' B D2 L' B' L2 R2 D L2 F2 D' F' D F (32)
That moment when your insertions are longer than your skeleton 
I could have looked for insertions longer, but I need to do other things, so I'm relatively happy with 32.


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## Iggy (Sep 1, 2016)

Found a weird skeleton on this scramble that leaves 3 edges and 4 corners, and got stuck after that lol

B' L D R U R F U' L F U2 F' R2 F L2 B R2 U2 F' R2 U

pairs: D’ U F’
1x1x3: B’ D’ R’ D2 
double x cross: L B2 R F2 R F2
F2L-1: R D R’
leave 4C3E: D F’ D2 F D2 

I tried putting the skeleton in IF but it says that there are 7 unsolved corners and 11 unsolved edges. Is there something I'm doing wrong?


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## Hssandwich (Sep 1, 2016)

Iggy said:


> Found a weird skeleton on this scramble that leaves 3 edges and 4 corners, and got stuck after that lol
> 
> B' L D R U R F U' L F U2 F' R2 F L2 B R2 U2 F' R2 U
> 
> ...


Try changing your ’ s to ' s


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## Ranzha (Sep 1, 2016)

Iggy said:


> ’





Hssandwich said:


> Try changing your ’ s to ' s



I use this: http://dan.hersam.com/tools/smart-quotes.html

Literally the best thing.


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## Hssandwich (Sep 1, 2016)

Sorry for posting so much recently, I've grown to like FMC

A disappointing 29:
B F2 D2 B F2 L2 B2 L R' F' L' U R F D' L B' L2 U


Spoiler



B F2 D2 B F2 L2 B2 L R' F' L' U R F D' L B' L2 U

F D' B R' // pseudo 2x2x2
B2 L' U // 2x2x3
B D' L' D L // pseudo F2L-1
(D) // F2L-1
(B R' B' R B R D' R' D)
Skeleton: F * D' B R' B2 L' U B D' L' D L D' R D R' B' R' B R B' D'
* B U B' D2 B U' B' D2

F B U B' D2 B U' B' D B R' B2 L' U B D' L' D L D' R D R' B' R' B R B' D' (29)
The insertion was optimal, silly scramble though.

I also found this:


Spoiler



F D' B R' B2 F' D F //blocks
(D2 U') //fix (F2L-1 and an edge)


And Fabio found


Spoiler



(D B U' B2 R B' D) //223


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## Bubtore (Sep 1, 2016)

Emilien did the skeleton and I inserted  (We should really hold team FM as an official event !)



Spoiler: 25 (French Championship Scramble)



S // R' U' F U2 F D2 F2 D2 R2 F' D2 L F' D B' D U R' F U' F R F R' U' F
I // F' U R F' R' F' U F' R U' D' B D' F L' D2 F R2 D2 F2 D2 F' U2 F' U R

(F' R' U L B) // 2x2x2 (5)
(U' F' U F' L2 F') // 2x2x3 (6)
D L D' L' D2 L' D2 L2 // 2E2C 

Skel // D L D' L' D2 L' D2 L2 * F L2 F U' F U B' L' U' R F - 19

* D' F L2 B' U B' U' B2 L2 F'

Solution // D L D' L' D2 L' D2 L2 D' F L2 B' U B' U' B2 F U' F U B' L' U' R F - 25 Moves


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## Iggy (Sep 2, 2016)

F2 L2 F2 U' L2 D' B2 D' U' R2 F2 R U L U F D' L U' L2 R
inverse: R’ L2 U L’ D F’ U’ L’ U’ R’ F2 R2 U D B2 D L2 U F2 L2 F2 


Spoiler



inverse:
pseudo 2x2x2: L D R
normal:
2x2x2: D2
EO: U2 L’
pair: U2
inverse:
pseudo 2x2x3: L2 B U B2
normal:
B’ U B’ F U’ F’ B L2 U’ F U F’

skeleton: D2 U2 L’ U2 B’ U B’ F U’ F’ B L2 U’ F U F’ B2 U’ B’* L2 R’ D’ L’
* B2 L’ F2 L B2 L’ F2 L

D2 U2 L’ U2 B’ U B’ F U’ F’ B L2 U’ F U F’ B2 U’ B L’ F2 L B2 L’ F2 L’ R’ D’ L’ (29)



Took over an hour because I was trying out different solutions. Found this F2L too:


Spoiler



2x2x2: F2 D2 R D2 R2
inverse
pseudo 2x2x3: D’ L F’ D’ F2 L
normal
F2L: L2 F’ L D F


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## bubbagrub (Sep 2, 2016)

Berd said:


> Thanks for all the tips! I think I did it right...?



30 is a very nice result! And yes, you're right in your cancellation arithmetic. Inserting R' D' immediately after D R is a nice way to cancel 4 moves.

Just wondering why you didn't just add the L2 onto the end of your skeleton? Doesn't make much difference; I'm just not sure there's any benefit to leaving it out...


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## TheCoolMinxer (Sep 2, 2016)

I just won't get better at FMC, but I really need to... Can someone find a nice finish? (17 move F2L-1)

Scramble: R' U' F D U F2 D2 L2 F2 U F2 U L' B L' D U B2 L D U2 L U2 R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R U2 L' U2 D' L' B2 U' D' L B' L U' F2 U' F2 L2 D2 F2 U' D' F' U R

R B L2 U L U' B D' B' U L D L' D2 F D F' // F2L-1
( R D R' D2) // block
(R2 F' R' F D2 R' D' R D' R' L' D2 L D L' D L) //F2L finish cancelled in 2GLL


Solution: R B L2 U L U' B D' B' U L D L' D2 F D F' L' D' L D' L' D2 L R D R' D R D2 F' R F R2 D2 R D' R' (38 Moves.)

Couldnt find anything decent after F2L-1


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## guysensei1 (Sep 3, 2016)

TheCoolMinxer said:


> I just won't get better at FMC, but I really need to... Can someone find a nice finish? (17 move F2L-1)
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F D U F2 D2 L2 F2 U F2 U L' B L' D U B2 L D U2 L U2 R' U' F
> Inverse: F' U R U2 L' U2 D' L' B2 U' D' L B' L U' F2 U' F2 L2 D2 F2 U' D' F' U R
> ...


There's B' D2 B R D R' to 5 corners, insertion finder gives 32 moves after that.
Or this cool ending of
D2 B' D' B R' B R B'//ZBLS
x2 y' R U2 R' U' R2 D R' U R D' R' U2 R'//ZBLL
which cancels 2 moves and gives 36 (not that great but cool ZBLL)


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## Cale S (Sep 3, 2016)

TheCoolMinxer said:


> Scramble: R' U' F D U F2 D2 L2 F2 U F2 U L' B L' D U B2 L D U2 L U2 R' U' F



lol this was my first try at the scramble, basically a speedsolve:
U' D B // EO
L' U' R U' F2 L2 U2 // lolcross
D2 L D' L2 D L // left block
D' R' D' R2 D R' D' R' D R // right block
L' D2 L D L' D L D2 // ZBLL

34 moves


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## guysensei1 (Sep 3, 2016)

R U' B' L D2 U' R' F2 B L R F L' U2 R2 L B2 D L R

Weekly FMC


Spoiler



F2 R2 L B L2 B'//Heise type blocks I guess
U' B U2 B' U//another 2x2x1
L F R//F2L-1
R U' R' F' U2 F U2//AB4C
AB4C in 20 moves, I had to go out for stuff so I'll look for insertions later.


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## Cale S (Sep 4, 2016)

cool stuff for Weekly FMC


Spoiler



R U' B' L D2 U' R' F2 B L R F L' U2 R2 L B2 D L R

B R2 B' D' // EO + blocks
F2 R2 // roux block
L @ B L' F U2 // 3c5e

@ = L B' L' B // inserted sledge cancels 2 and solves 2 edges

B R2 B' D' F2 L2 # R2 ^ B' L' B2 L' F U2
^ = [R2, S] // 6 mover cancels 3, 16 to L3C 
# = [L2, F R F'] // corner comm cancels 4

Final solution: B R2 B' D' F' R F' L2 F R' F2 B U2 F B2 L' B2 L' F U2

20 moves


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## guysensei1 (Sep 5, 2016)

F2 U2 L2 R U2 L' D2 U2 R B2 R' F2 U2 B' L2 U2 R' F D R2 D2 R' 

Premove: *D2*
F2 D2 U2 L'//2x2x2 (4/4)
U' F U R2//2x2x3 (4/8)
L' U2 L//EO (3/11)
F' D' F U *F' D*//F2L-1 with keyhole (6/17)
*F' U2 F*//WV (3/20)
*F' U2 F D' F*' U F' U F' U' F2 D' F U F' *D2*//V perm, those cancellations! (16/36)

Final: F2 D2 U2 L' U' F U R2 L' U2 L F' D' F U F2 U F' U F' U' F2 D' F U F' (26 moves!)


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## TheCoolMinxer (Sep 5, 2016)

25 moves PB single, first sub30 lmao. Crazy scramble, but whatever

Normal: F2 U R2 F2 D' R2 D' F2 R2 D L' U' F' U2 B2 D2 L2 D L2
Inverse: L2 D' L2 D2 B2 U2 F U L D' R2 F2 D R2 D F2 R2 U' F2

D B2 //222
(F2 U L') //223
U F' U F U' L' U' L F L F L' F' //L3C

skeleton: D B2 U F' U F U' L' # U' L F L F L' F' L U' F2

#= B' D B U2 B' D' B U

final solution: D B2 U F' U F U' L' B' D B U2 B' D' B U L F L F L' F' L U' F2 (25 moves ^^)

insertion was optimal yay

everyone interested in FMC should try this scramble


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## sqAree (Sep 6, 2016)

First sub30! (scramble from last weekly comp)



Spoiler



Scramble: F' R' L' D' R' F L' U2 B' R' F2 R2 U' F2 U2 R2 B2 U2 R2 F2 U

R' U R2 F' //EO (4/4)
D R' D2 (D) //2x2x2 (4/8)
R U2 B2 R' B2 R2 //2x2x3 (6/14)
(U' B2 U2 B2) //F2L-1 (4/18)
(U R' U R U2) //to L3C (5/23)

skeleton: R' U R2 F' D R' D2 R U2 B2 R' B2 R2 U2 R' U' R U' B2 U2 B2 U D' (23 moves)

But after EO+CO the following finish is better:

R' U R2 F' D @ R' D2 R U2 B2 R' B2 R2 U2 R' U' R D' R2 U2 R2 (21 moves)

@ = R2 [F, R' B2 R] R2

Solution: R' U R2 F' D R2 F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 D2 R U2 B2 R' B2 R2 U2 R' U' R D' R2 U2 R2 (29 moves)



I was pretty disgusted that a normal insertion was not possible. Anyone tips?


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## guysensei1 (Sep 6, 2016)

Has anyone ever done 2 corner insertions to solve 6 corners? It's possible when you have 2 separate 3cycles with no 'twists' between them, but I don't think I've seen it being done before.


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## Cale S (Sep 6, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> Has anyone ever done 2 corner insertions to solve 6 corners? It's possible when you have 2 separate 3cycles with no 'twists' between them, but I don't think I've seen it being done before.


yes

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/133/


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## porkynator (Sep 6, 2016)

Bubtore said:


> Fantastic Manhattan Competition 2016 Scramble 2: R' U' F R' D2 F2 R' B2 R' D2 L2 D2 B' F2 U2 F' L U R2 F2 R' U2 L F' R' U' F


I have found this crazy start on inverse:

B' U2 D' F' //EO + 3x2x1 + 2x2x1 (4/4)

The best solution I've found in 1 hour was however 26 (actually I've found 2 of them):


Spoiler



- B' U2 D' F' +
R' L' U' L' U
L' B2 L //3c4e
- = R2 D' U F2 D U
+ = F2 * R' L D2 R L'
* = U L D' L' U' L D L'

And

B' U2 D' F'
L D' L' D' * L' R2
U2 L' U L U2 R L' //2c2e
* = F R' D2 L B' L' D2 R2 F' R'



Later I have found this skeleton, which IF can solve in 23:


Spoiler



B' U2 D' F'
D' L2 R2 U R' L2 F2 R2 L2 //4 corners left in 13



Can anyone do better than this? That start is _really_ good.

EDIT: Also this "All but a ZBLL I don't know" in 12


Spoiler



B' U2 D' F'
D2 L2 R2
U L U2 L' R


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## Laura O (Sep 7, 2016)

I found a nice solution for the third scramble of the German forum competition:
Scramble: R' U' F L2 D U R2 B2 D' L2 R2 U B' F' L2 U R2 F' R' D2 L F' R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R F L' D2 R F R2 U' L2 F B U' R2 L2 D B2 R2 U' D' L2 F' U R

In found a 26 move solution in 1 hour. After that I tried to find a good continuation for a start with some blocks, which I had found on the inverse scramble. And that's what I found:
inverse:
2x2x3: B2 U L' B2 R2 U B' U' D R2 // 10 moves
switch
L3C: U2 L' U2 L D' F2 D R2 U' R2 // 10 moves

Skeleton: U2 L' U2 L D' * F2 D R2 D' B U' R2 B2 L U' B2 // 16 moves ...
* D L' U2 L D' L' U2 L

Solution: U2 D' L' U2 L F2 D R2 D' B U' R2 B2 L U' B2
16 moves

Cube Explorer finds exactly this solution as optimal solution.


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## Attila (Sep 7, 2016)

porkynator said:


> I have found this crazy start on inverse:
> 
> B' U2 D' F' //EO + 3x2x1 + 2x2x1 (4/4)
> 
> ...




Using your start, I found this:
(B' U2 D' F') 4
(D2 R2 L' U') orient corners 8
(L D R L' F2 L R' D) domino reduction 16
(L' F2 R' F2 R B2 L' D2 R D2 R') 27


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## Bubtore (Sep 7, 2016)

porkynator said:


> I have found this crazy start on inverse:
> 
> B' U2 D' F' //EO + 3x2x1 + 2x2x1 (4/4)



Here's a finish in 23 


Spoiler



(B' U2 D' F') // EO + Blocks
(D2 L2 R2)
B2 R' U' // 2E4C

Skel // B2 R' * U' R2 L2 D2 F D U2 B - 10

* B2 D' R2 + U R2 B2 D L2 U' L2 U
+ B U F' U' B' U F U'

Solution // B2 R' B2 D' R2 B U F' U' B' U F R2 B2 D L2 U' R2 D2 F D U2 B - 23 Moves





porkynator said:


> EDIT: Also this "All but a ZBLL I don't know" in 12
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





By inserting that ZBLL we can get 24


Spoiler



(B' U2 D' F')
(D2 R2 L2)
(U L U2 + L' R B2)

+ L' U2 L2 U L U2 R' D F2 D' R U' L

Solution // B2 R' U R' D F2 D' R U2 L' U' L2 U2 L U2 L' U' L2 R2 D2 F D U2 B - 24 Moves


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## Bubtore (Sep 7, 2016)

Such amazing insertions 

S // F2 R' D2 R' D2 R' D2 R F U2 R' U2 L2 R2 U F' L2 R' B'
I // B R L2 F U' R2 L2 U2 R U2 F' R' D2 R D2 R D2 R F2

(U F' R) // EO
(U' F R2) // P222
F' B U2 B' U' R2 D B2 U D L2 // 4E3C

Skel // F' B + U2 B' U' R2 D * B2 U D L2 R2 F' U R' F U' - 17 Moves
+ B2 D2 F2 D2 B2 U2
* D F' D' B2 D F D' B2

Solution // F' B' D2 F2 D2 B U' R2 D2 F' D' B2 D F U L2 R2 F' U R' F U' - 22 Moves


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## guysensei1 (Sep 16, 2016)

So I just got my FMC PB single

B' D2 B2 U2 F D2 L2 F' D2 B' D' B' U' R' U2 F L' U2 L' B'

B' D2 R' F' * U'//2x2x2 (5/5)
D F//Xcross (2/7)
U' F U L' F'//multislot, F2L-1 (5/12)
switch to inverse,
L D L' D'//setup F2L pair
B' L' B//insert pair, OLL skip, U perm left

*=L2 U' D F2 U D'

5 moves cancel on a 6 move insertion, wth

Final: B' D2 R' F' L2 U' D F' U' F U L' F' B' L B D L D' L' (20 moves!!!)


Well, time to never break my PB single again I guess


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## Emilien (Sep 23, 2016)

R' U' F L R' D2 R' U2 R D2 F2 L U B' U2 L' B' U B2 D' U L' U R' U' F

U' R2 U' B' U // 2x2x2 (5)
D L' // 2x2x3 (2)
D2 L B' L' D' B2 D + B D2 B D' // 3C (11)

+ R' F2 R B R' F2 R B' (8-2 = 6)

24 HTM

Good Solve !


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## Bubtore (Sep 23, 2016)

Emilien said:


> R' U' F L R' D2 R' U2 R D2 F2 L U B' U2 L' B' U B2 D' U L' U R' U' F (Vilnius Open)



U' R2 U' B' U // 222
D2 B2 D' L' // 223 + 4 Pairs
D' B' R D' R2 B R // F2L
D' B' D' R D R' B D // LL

Solution // U' R2 U' B' U D2 B2 D' L' D' B' R D' R2 B R D' B' D' R D R' B D - 24 Moves


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## Ranzha (Sep 26, 2016)

Did this week's German Forum scrambles 
29, 28, 20 = 25.67 mean
Each done in 1 hour

Moves in parentheses are on inverse



Spoiler: 1. 29



1. R' U' F U2 F' D2 U2 B2 R2 F' D2 B' D F2 R' D' R' U' B' L2 D' F2 R' U' F

B2 // inserted move before 222 [1]
L' B' L' R2 B' // 222 [5/6]
(F2 D L D') // pair [4/10]
(F' D2 F' L' F2) // F2L-1 [5/15]
(B D2 B' D L' D L) //




[7/22]

Skeleton: B2 L' B' L' R2 B' L' (1) D' L D' B D2 B' F2 L F D2 F D L' D' F2 (22)
(1): L2 B' L' B2 D' B' D2 L' D' // [9-2/29]

Solution: B2 L' B' L' R2 B' L B' L' B2 D' B' D2 L' D2 L D' B D2 B' F2 L F D2 F D L' D' F2 (29)





Spoiler: 2. 28



2. R' U' F L2 R2 B2 U B2 R2 D2 B' U' L' F D2 L F' R' B' L2 R' F R' U' F

L' U2 R B' // EO [4]
U F2 R' D' // 222 + 2 pairs [4/8]
(U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 B2 R' B2) // 4C [9/17]

Skeleton: L' U2 (1) R B' U F2 R' D' B2 R B2 R2 U R2 U R2 U2 (17)
(1): B L' B' (2) R B L B' R' // [8-3/22]
(2): [B2, R' F' R] // [8-2/28]

Solution: L' U2 B L' B R' F' R B2 R' F R2 B L B2 U F2 R' D' B2 R B2 R2 U R2 U R2 U2 (28)





Spoiler: 3. 20



3. R' U' F U2 R2 B2 R2 B L2 D2 B R' B2 U B D R F' D F2 R2 B2 D R' U' F

Same solution as Jan





(U L R2 D' R') // EO [5]
(B' D2 F' U L2) // 223 [5/10]
U2 F U' F' U2 F' U // 3C [7/17]

Skeleton: U2 F U' F' U2 F' U L2 U' F D2 B R (1) D R2 L' U' (17)
(1): [R2, D L' D'] // [8-5/20]

Solution: U2 F U' F' U2 F' U L2 U' F D2 B R' D L' D' R2 D R2 U' (20)


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## Hssandwich (Sep 26, 2016)

23 for the weekly comp


Spoiler



R2 U' F2 D2 R' F2 B R2 D B U L R' F D2 L2 U2 F D2 B2
inv: B2 D2 F' U2 L2 D2 F' R L' U' B' D' R2 B' F2 R D2 F2 U R2

(U' B' L' D L D2) //6 2x2x2
(L2 F' L U2) //10 pseudo 2x2x3
(L2 U' F U F' U') //16 F2L
(L' F' U' F U L) //22 to 3e

Skeleton: L' U' F' U F L U F U' F' & U L2 U2 L' F L2 D2 L' D' L B U

& F U F' U' D R U' R' U D' (lots of cancels!)

L' U' F' U F L D R U' R' U2 D' L2 U2 L' F L2 D2 L' D' L B U (23)
9/10 moves cancelled lol


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## Bubtore (Sep 28, 2016)

My first insertion cancelling all moves !
Scramble is from Sesc Camaquã 2016.

S // R' U' F U2 L' D2 B2 F2 R F2 L F2 U2 B U2 F U B L R2 B' L U R' U' F
I // F' U R U' L' B R2 L' B' U' F' U2 B' U2 F2 L' F2 R' F2 B2 D2 L U2 F' U R

U R2 B L' D2 L' // 222
(R D2) // P223
(D B' D' B') // PF2L-1
D' R2 D' R' D R2 // L5C

Skel // U R2 B L' D2 + L' D' R2 D' R' D R2 B D B * D R' - 17
+ D' R2 D L' D' R2 D L (8-8)
* B D F2 D' B' D F2 D' (8-3)

Solution // U R2 B L' D R2 D L' D2 R' D R2 B D B2 D F2 D' B' D F2 R' - 22 Moves


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## Ranzha (Sep 28, 2016)

Bubtore said:


> My first insertion cancelling all moves !
> Scramble is from Sesc Camaquã 2016.
> 
> S // R' U' F U2 L' D2 B2 F2 R F2 L F2 U2 B U2 F U B L R2 B' L U R' U' F
> ...


VGJ! 

--

Edit (30 Sept 03:47)

Finished doing the scrambles from Canberra Spring 2016! 28, 26, 20 = 24.67 mean (just like Jay )

The 20 is the exact same as Jay's. Others who found the same solution were Mark Boyanowski, Walker Welch, and Ryan DeLine.

Moves in parentheses are on inverse.

1) R' U' F R B2 L2 R U2 R2 F2 R' B2 D' F2 L' R2 B' U2 R F' U2 R' U R' U' F


Spoiler



(B D2 F' R) // 222
(R' D' L2) // + sq + pair
(R D L2)
(U' F U F')
(U' D2 F' U F2) // 17 to 4C

Skel: F2 U' (1) F U D2 F U' F' U L2 D' R' L2 D F D2 B'
(1): [U' B U, F] // 8-4
New skel: F2 U2 (2) B U F U' B' U2 D2 F U' F' U L2 D' R' L2 D F D2 B'
(2): [U' B U, F2] // 8-1

Final: F2 U B U F2 U' B' U F2 B U F U' B' U2 D2 F U' F' U L2 D' R' L2 D F D2 B' (28)


2) R' U' F R2 D2 L D2 L U2 R U2 R U' F2 R' D' F' D2 R B' L' F D2 R' U' F


Spoiler



What I tried:
(F' U R' D B') // 222
(B F2 L B')

Eventually went with this:
(U F' R' D B') // 222
(F2 L' U2 L') // 223
U2 L F U L' F' L U' L2 U2 L U' // 21 to 3C

Skel: U2 L F U L' F' L U' L2 U2 L U' L U2 (1) L F2 B D' R F U'
(1): [U R2 U', L] // 8-3

Final: U2 L F U L' F' L U' L2 U2 L U' L U' R2 U' L U R2 U' F2 B D' R F U' (26)


3) R' U' F D2 R2 D L2 R2 F2 R2 D' L U2 L U' B2 F R U' B2 R U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



15-minute back-up skeleton:
D' // EO
(F2 D2) // square
(B' L2) // another square
(R' F' L') // 1x2x3, pair, what
(F U2 F2 L2 D2 B2 D2 B') // 16 to 3 edges, cancels 2 for a 22

What I went with:
D' // EO
(F2 D2 B' L2) // as before
(F R F L B D2 B2) // 12 to bad 5 corners

Skel: D' (1) B2 D2 B' L' F' R' F' L2 B D2 F2
(1): [D F D', B] // 8-3
New skel: F D' B D F' D' (2) B D2 B' L' F' R' F' L2 (3) B D2 F2
(2): [U', B D2 B'] // 8-6
(3): [L2, F R F'] // 8-7

Final: F D' B D F' D' U' B D2 B' U L' F2 L2 F R' F' B D2 F2 (20)


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## Bubtore (Sep 30, 2016)

I've been trying out some new insertion stuff :
! ongoing german forum competition !


Spoiler



S // R' U' F R2 U2 L2 F2 U' L2 R2 B2 L' F' U R' F L2 B R2 B2 D L' D2 R' U' F

R' L D' // EO
R' // 122
B U2 L2 // 123
B2 U2 B2 F * R2 B' R' F2 // F2L-1
L // 3E4C

* F2 B L2 F' L B' L' F L' B L' B' F2

Solution // R' L D' R' B U2 L2 B2 U2 B' F' L2 F' L B' L' F L' B L' B' F2 R2 B' R' F2 L - 27 Moves


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## porkynator (Oct 1, 2016)

My solution for this week's Berkeley FMC (I got the "you have already submitted a solution" bug).


Spoiler



Scramble: R2 U' F2 D2 R' F2 B R2 D B U L R' F D2 L2 U2 F D2 B2
Solution: U F R' L' F2 D' R L D R D' L' D R B U L' F2 L B2 L' F2 L R2 B U D (27 HTM)

On normal, premove D
U F R' L' F2 //2x2x2 (5+1/6)
D' R * D //2x2x3 (3/9)
R2 B U + B2 R2 B U //All but 5 corners (7/16)

* = L D R D' L' D R' D'
+ = L' F2 L B2 L' F2 L B2

The last step is just EO with an R2 at the beginning to save the pair.


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## G2013 (Oct 3, 2016)

Super neat insertion I found on this week's scramble.


Spoiler



Scramble: R2 U' L D F' L D2 U' R' B' L2 U' L R F' B' D2 F2 L2 R2
Inverse: R2 L2 F2 D2 B F R' L' U L2 B R U D2 L' F D' L' U R2

F U F2 L //2x2
(U' R2 U' R' F2) //2x2x3
F' B U' F B' //EO 4 edges + 2x2x1
R U2 F' U' F R2 //EO + 2x2x1
(B U B') //L3C
(R D R' U R D' R' U F' D2 F U' F' D2 F) //Backup

Backup: F U F2 L F' B U' F B' R U2 F' U' F R2 F' D2 F U F' D2 F U' R D R' U' R D' R' B U' B' F2 R U R2 U (38)

Skeleton: F U F2 L F' B U' F B' R U2 F' U' F R2 U' B U' B' F2 R U R2 U (24)

Insertion 1:
F U F2 L F' B U' F B' R U2 F' U' F R2 U' B U' B' F2 R U (U2 R D R' U2 R D' R') R2 U 24+8-2=30
Skeleton 2: F U F2 L F' B U' F B' R U2 F' U' F R2 U' B U' B' F2 R U' R D R' U2 R D' R U (30)
Backup 2: F U F2 L F' B U' F B' R U2 F' U' F R2 U' B U' B' F2 R U' R D R' U2 R D' R U F' U B U' F U B' U' (38) (making up backup solves all the time is gr8)

Insertion 2:
F U F2 L F' B U' F B' R U2 F' U' F R2 U' B U' B' F2 R U' R D R' U2 R D' (U L U') R U (L') 30+4=34!

Final solve: F U F2 L F' B U' F B' R U2 F' U' F R2 U' B U' B' F2 R U' R D R' U2 R D' U L U' R U L' (34)

The last insertion was the weirdest thing that happened to me in FMC since I started FMCing.
F U F2 L F' B U' F B' R U2 F' U' F R2 U' B U' B' F2 R U' R D R' U2 R D' * R U
When I was at * trying to find the 2nd insertion, I found out that it was a commutator that had been started already.
I mean, if you perform the moves R U at *, it's a niklas. And it had already been started (weirdly though).
So, what I did, I inserted the corner that was at UFL at * with U L U', then the rest was just straightforward. In addition, the moves needed were the final moves of the skeleton (plus an obvious L')!
So, it was sort of a quadruple cancellation, but not quite.
Happy with the ending.
The 1st insertion was really hard. I mean, I couldn't find any good one.
The 2nd one was magical instead.
IF gives 32 for 3-cycles and 30 for 2*2-cycle.



Edit:


porkynator said:


> My solution for this week's Berkeley FMC (I got the "you have already submitted a solution" bug).
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Why did you choose D as a premove? Based on what? I can't see it. Thanks


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## porkynator (Oct 3, 2016)

G2013 said:


> Why did you choose D as a premove? Based on what? I can't see it. Thanks



It's needed for the first block.
I have found it before solving the block actually, just trying random stuff at the beginning of the inverse scramble. D' makes a nice pair close to two "good" edges (i.e. correctly placed closed to their matching center).


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## G2013 (Oct 4, 2016)

porkynator said:


> It's needed for the first block.
> I have found it before solving the block actually, just trying random stuff at the beginning of the inverse scramble. D' makes a nice pair close to two "good" edges (i.e. correctly placed closed to their matching center).



I see. I'll try this 'technique' and see if I get better results with it  Thanks
Also, the last step was pure luck or did you expect the edges to end up solved?

Edit:
This is my entry for Weekly Competition 2016-40
I've found a similar insertion to my solve posted before on this same thread.


Spoiler



--------------------------------------------------------------
Scramble: U F' L' F D' R' D B U R2 U2 L B2 U2 B2 L' D2 B2 L' B2
Inverse: B2 L B2 D2 L B2 U2 B2 L' U2 R2 U' B' D' R D F' L F U'

F' R' U2 L2 //1x2x3
U' R2 U2 R' D2 //2x2x3
F U F' //EO
L' U2 //Pair
(U2) //Pair
(L2 U' L U) //F2L-1 + Pair
D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' //3-pair-cycle

Skeleton: F' R' U2 L2 U' R2 U2 R' D2 F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U L2 U2 (27) (I don't know the 3-corner-twist alg :S)

Backup solve: F' R' U2 L2 U' R2 U2 R' D2 F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U L2 U2 (U2 R' D R U2 R' D' R) (D' B D F2 D' B' D F2) (41)

Insertion 1:
F' R' U2 L2 U' R2 (R' D' R U2 R' D R U2) U2 R' D2 F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U L2 U2 27+8-6 -> this
F' R' U2 L2 U' R2 U2 (U2 R' D' R U2 R' D R) R' D2 F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U L2 U2 27+8-6
F' R' U2 L2 U' R2 U2 R' (R U2 R' D' R U2 R' D) D2 F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U L2 U2 27+8-6
Skeleton 2: F' R' U2 L2 U' R D' R U2 R' D' F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U L2 U2 (29)
Backup 2: F' R' U2 L2 U' R D' R U2 R' D' F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U L2 U2 D' B D F2 D' B' D F2 (37)

Insertion 2:
F' R' U2 L2 U' R D' R U2 R' D' F U F' L' U2 (B' U B D' B' U' B D) D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U L2 U2 29+8-2=35
F' R' U2 L2 U' R D' R U2 R' D' F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U (B' R B) L2 (B' R' B) U2 29+6=35 -> this

Both yield to a 35-move final solve, one having 2 cancellations, the other having a weird insertion technique I've been getting a lot lately.
This technique is actually not a technique, but somehow having a bit of luck. Near the end of the solve, you find an already started insertion.
F' R' U2 L2 U' R D' R U2 R' D' F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U * L2 U2
See, at *, if you do L2, it's a 3-cycle "with premove U2". Then what I do, is insert the URF corner in ULB, "undo the L2" (that actually I've never performed), undo the insertion, and then undo the "premove".
All the things that are "quoted" are because the solve does it by itself. You can see that the L2 move and the U2 move are already part of the skeleton, I just inserted the corner insertion and undoing.

Final solve: F' R' U2 L2 U' R D' R U2 R' D' F U F' L' U2 D' L2 U L2 U' L2 D L' U' L' U B' R B L2 B' R' B U2 (35)
Insertions are optimal 
Found in 58 minutes!

--------------------------------------------------------------


Any sort of advice is welcome, thanks


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## porkynator (Oct 4, 2016)

G2013 said:


> Also, the last step was pure luck or did you expect the edges to end up solved?



Kind of lucky, but there were many ways to orient edges and I tried many different ones before getting this. It is the kind of luck you get when you try out enough stuff


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## G2013 (Oct 5, 2016)

porkynator said:


> Kind of lucky, but there were many ways to orient edges and I tried many different ones before getting this. It is the kind of luck you get when you try out enough stuff



FMC does require luck xD Thanks for replying to my messages.


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## Cale S (Oct 8, 2016)

interesting thing from a scramble from the German FMC thread


Spoiler



R' U' F L2 U2 R2 B U2 B D2 U' R D' U' L2 D F D2 L2 R B U' R' U' F

L' B2 U2 // 2x2x2
L B2 D' B' D' B // 2x2x3
now the state of the cube is symmetric...

I then did D' F B D' B' D F2 D' F D to get 19 to 3 corners, 24 after insertion 

The solution I found before this was a 23:

L' B2 // square
F U // square
L2 // square
(L B2 U2) U' F R' // F2L - 1 + EO
R' F R F' R' F' R F' // L3C

L' B2 F U L2 U' F R2 F R F' R' F' R F' U2 B2 L' @ 
@ = [L B' L', F]


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## G2013 (Oct 9, 2016)

Weekly scramble for David Adams' Weekly Competition:
Ties my previous PB, 27.
It's curious that I've done a 3x3 speedsolve in 26 HTM xD



Spoiler



Scramble: L' F' R2 L B' U L' B' R2 D' F L' R' B L R D2 B2 L2 U2
Inverse: U2 L2 B2 D2 R' L' B' R L F' D R2 B L U' B L' R2 F L

(U2) //Premove for 2x2
R F2 D' R F' //2x2x3
D2 R2 //Cross + pairs
D' R D R' //All but 3 corners, 3 edges
(D2) //Premove for twisted D face

Skeleton: R F2 D' R F' D2 R2 D' R D R' U2 D2 (13)
Backup solve: R F2 D' R F' D2 R2 D' R D R' U2 D2 D B' E2 B D' B' E2 B F' R F L2 F' R' F L2 (31)

Edge insertion:
R F2 D' R F' D2 R2 D' (D L' E' L D' L' E L) R D R' U2 D2 (13+10-2 = 21)
Skeleton: R F2 D' R F' D2 R2 L' E' L D' L' E L R D R' U2 D2, converted:
R F2 D' R F' D2 R2 L' U' D F D' F' U D' L R D R' U2 D2 (21)

Corner insertion:
R F2 D' R F' D2 (U' L2 U R' U' L2 U R) R2 L' U' D F D' F' U D' L R D R' U2 D2 (21+8-1=28)
R F2 D' R F' D2 R2 L' (R U L U' R' U L' U') U' D F D' F' U D' L R D R' U2 D2 (21+8-2=27) -> this

Final solve: R F2 D' R F' D2 R' L' U L U' R' U L' U2 D F D' F' U D' L R D R' U2 D2 (27) PB TIED
(the initial skeleton is shorter than the total moves required for both insertions, lol)

Even though this solve is very good, I feel like I could have found a much better one.
I mean, there was a pseudo 2x2 at the beginning of the solve!
The 1st place of this week must have found a sub-20 solve xD
IF gives 25 moves.


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## Cale S (Oct 9, 2016)

cool insertion for Weekly FMC


Spoiler



L' F' R2 L B' U L' B' R2 D' F L' R' B L R D2 B2 L2 U2

(U2 D' F) F2 // 2x2x3
B' D B // EO
(F') D' R2 D R' F' // F2L - 1
R' D' R D R' // 2e2c

F2 B' D B D' R2 @ D R' F' R' D' R D R' D U2
@ = R2 F' U F' U' F2 R2 B' D' B 

24 move solution

I also found a 23


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## EMI (Oct 10, 2016)

I got an official 25, 28, 23 = 25.33 mean at German Nationals, making me national champion! I am very happy with it, although a lot of luck was involved, especially with the second and third solves.



Spoiler: Solutions



1st Scramble: R' U' F U2 B2 F L2 B' U2 R2 U2 R2 B F' D R' D R2 B U2 R F L' D' R' U' F

On Inverse: R' D' R // 1x2x2
Switch, L' D' B2 D' F' D' // 2x2x3 + blocks
B L' B2 U2 B L2 U' // 2 flipped edges and three twisted corners
Skeleton: L' D' B2 D' F' D' B L' B2 U2 B L2 U' R' D R
Finish: L' F' L2 D' L' D2 F' D' F2
Total: L' D' B2 D' F' D' B L' B2 U2 B L2 U' R' D R L' F' L2 D' L' D2 F' D' F2 (25)

The 2x2x3 start looked really promising. I actually found a 21 L3C finish first which also resulted in 25, but this one is a bit cooler. (Given that the skeleton perfectly sets up for the algorithm, it is almost a bit unlucky that it wasn't possible to cancel a move - had the skeleton ended with any U, L or F face move, it would have canceled at least one move.)

2nd Scramble: R' U' F R F2 U2 B2 R U2 L2 R F2 R B' U L' B L F D' L2 D' L' B2 R' U' F

On Inverse: U2 B' // 1x2x2
Switch, U R' U2 // 2x2x2
Switch, F L F' L2 F // 2x2x3
D B' L B2 D' B' D2 B' L' B L' D L D // CFOP to A-perm
Skeleton: U R' U2 D' L' D' L B' L B D2 B D B2 L' B D' F' L2 F @ L' F' B U2
@ = F' L B' L' F L B L'
Total: U R' U2 D' L' D' L B' L B D2 B D B2 L' B D' F' L' B' L' F L B L2 F' B U2 (28)

Not a very easy scramble. This was my backup solution: I didn't find anything on the 2x2x3 right away, so I wanted to switch so I solved it using CFOP, which actually led to a 24 move L3C skeleton by chance. 4 move cancel was quite lucky as well. I went on trying out different 4 move EOs on the inverse scramble, some of which looked promising, but couldn't find any finishes.

3rd Scramble: R' U' F U' R2 D2 F2 L2 R2 D2 B2 D' F' D2 L R2 U' L2 D' U2 B' F' U' R' U' F

On Inverse: F2 B D' R' U2 // 2x2x3
F' D F' D F D2 F D' F' L D2 L' // CFOP F2L
B' L' D' L D B // Finish
Total: B' D' L' D L B L D2 L' F D F' D2 F' D' F D' F U2 R D B' F2 (23)

Really cool scramble - three blocks already made. I found the lucky 2x2x3 in five minutes, but only found the lucky finish after trying some more logical continuations.


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## sqAree (Oct 10, 2016)

I beat my official pb single by 7 moves at German Nationals.

Scramble: R' U' F U' R2 D2 F2 L2 R2 D2 B2 D' F' D2 L R2 U' L2 D' U2 B' F' U' R' U' F

(F2 B D' R' U2) //2x2x3 (5/5)
(F' L' F L) F //F2L-1 (5/10)
(L D L' D F' D2 F D') //to L4C (8-1/17)

Skeleton: F D F' @ D2 F D' L D' L2 F' L F U2 R D B' # F2 (17 moves)

@ = [B U B', D2]
# = [B' U2 B, D']

Solution: F D F' B U B' D2 B U' B' F D' L D' L2 F' L F U2 R D B2 U2 B D' B' U2 B D F2 (30 moves, cancelled 3)

Unfortunately IF tells me I could have had a 26 with my skeleton.
I found my skeleton after 15 minutes and started trying out insertions after 20 minutes. I have never done a 4C insertion that is a twisted 2-2-swap like that before and I was clueless how to be efficient and in the end I just took the first insertion that cancelled at least something.
Anyone tips for that kind of insertion?


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## Bubtore (Oct 17, 2016)

Solution of Swiss NR done at MSDJ 2016 :

S // R' U' F D' L2 U2 R2 U' F2 D' F2 L2 U2 L D B' L B R B2 U2 B2 D' R' U' F
I // F' U R D B2 U2 B2 R' B' L' B D' L' U2 L2 F2 D F2 U R2 U2 L2 D F' U R

(D R' D2 F' D2) // 222
(B U' L2 B L' B U L U B) // L4C 

Skel // B' U' L' * U' B' L B' L2 U B' + D2 F D2 R D' - 15

* L U L' D L U' L' D'
+ B' U2 B D B' U2 B D'

Solution // B' L' D L U' L' D' U' B' L B' L2 U B2 U2 B D B' U2 B D F D2 R D' - 25 Moves


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## maciek119 (Oct 17, 2016)

Hi guys, I've just started FMC and I have a question: Do you recommend practising without a time limit at first and after some time switching to 1 hour solves or should I start with time limit straightaway?


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## Cale S (Oct 17, 2016)

maciek119 said:


> Hi guys, I've just started FMC and I have a question: Do you recommend practising without a time limit at first and after some time switching to 1 hour solves or should I start with time limit straightaway?



Start by practicing with a time limit, then when you get decent you can improve a lot by practicing without, and you can gradually get the same results faster until it's within the limit

I was averaging low 30s at Nationals 2015, and then I started doing untimed attempts and got down to 26-27 average, and my next official mean after doing it was 26.67


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## Cale S (Oct 23, 2016)

Weekly FMC


Spoiler



*D' R' B2 D2 U' R' D2 B2 U R2 D2 F' L R D' L2 F U2 D B'*

U R // EO 
D' B D2 // 1x2x3
F' U' B2 // 2x2x3
F2 D2 (D2 F D) // F2L
F2 D' F' D F' D2 B' U L2 U' B D2 // ZBLL

Solution: U R D' B D2 F' U' B2 F2 D2 F2 D' F' D F' D2 B' U L2 U' B D F' D2


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## Robert-Y (Oct 23, 2016)

^I took your solution and somehow managed to save a move:


Spoiler



D' R' B2 D2 U' R' D2 B2 U R2 D2 F' L R D' L2 F U2 D B'

U R // EO 
D' B D2 // 1x2x3
F' U' B2 // 2x2x3
(D' F2 D2 F2) // another square
D' F D' F' // another square
B' D2 F D F' D2 B // block commutator

U R D' B D2 F' U' B2 D' F D' F' B' D2 F D F' D2 B F2 D2 F2 D


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## Rcuber123 (Oct 24, 2016)

Lolwut 25.33 mo3 with last the weekly FMC from 2 weeks last week and this week

24, 29, 23

The 24 was a PB single and then the 23.


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## uesyuu (Oct 25, 2016)

Crazy scramble and stupid solution.
I found 19moves solution.

scramble: D2 L2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L' D2 L F2 B R' U' L R2 B2 L' U L'



Spoiler



solution: L' D' B' R' B R D F U' B2 U B2 U2 B2 F R' D R D'

start on inverse
premove:L
D R' D' R F' / pseudo 223
B2 U2 / pseudo F2L-1
B2 U' B2 U F' / F2L
D' R' B' R B D / LL


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## Ranzha (Oct 30, 2016)

27.33 mean on the current German Forum competition:



Spoiler: 31



1. R' U' F D2 F2 U2 B2 U2 B U2 B U2 F2 R' F' R' U' L' B' F2 D' F U2 R' U' F

B' U B' (U' R') // 222
L' U L2 U' // 223
D2 B' L B // psF2L-1
L D2 L B' L' B // 4C (19)

Skel: B' U B' L' U L2 U' D2 B' L B L D2 L B' L' B (1) R U
(1): [B2, R F' R'] // 8-3

Skel: B' U B' L' U L2 U' D2 B' L B L D2 L B' L' B' R F' R' (2) B2 R F U
(2): [R' B2 R, F2] // 8-1

Solution: B' U B' L' U L2 U' D2 B' L B L D2 L B' L' B' R F' R2 B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 B2 R F U (31)







Spoiler: 24



2. R' U' F U2 R2 B2 U' L2 F2 D2 R' U F' L F R U2 L R' B R' F R' U' F

3-minute skeleton:
D' F R2 D' F // 222
B2 L' U2 B L' // 223
U' R' U (1) R U // 5C (15)
(1): [D2, R U R'] // 8-4

Skel: D' F R2 D' F B2 L' U2 B L' U' R' D2 (2) U R U R' D2 R
(2): [L', U R2 U'] // 8-3

Solution (33 min): D' F R2 D' F B2 L' U2 B L' U' R' D2 L' U R2 U' L U R' U R' D2 R (24) Optimal 





Spoiler: 27



3. R' U' F L2 U2 L2 R2 B' F2 R2 B L R D' R2 B L2 D' F U' L U2 R' U' F

First thing I tried. Solution found in 4 minutes.
R2 (1) D L // 222
R' U' R U R' F // 223
U F' U F U' R' // F2L-1
R B' R' B U2 B U' B' U // 3C (22)

(1): [L, D R2 D'] // 8-3

Solution: R2 L D R2 D' L' D R L U' R U R' F U F' U F U' B' R' B U2 B U' B' U (27)


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## Rcuber123 (Oct 30, 2016)

Last week's weekly FMC

PB! Also 25.33 PB mo3

UR / EO (2/2)
D' B D2 / 1x2x3 (3/5)
F' U' B2 / 2x2x3 (3/8)
(D' F2 D2 F2) / F2L-1 (4/12)
(D' F # D2 F' D) ab2e2c (5/17)

Insert at #: F' D B' D2 F D' F' D2 B F D' (11-5=6)

17+6=23


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## Cale S (Oct 30, 2016)

crazy skeleton from German weekly comp


Spoiler



R' U' F U2 R2 B2 U' L2 F2 D2 R' U F' L F R U2 L R' B R' F R' U' F

(D F L') // EO
B2 U' B // 2 squares
(D' B2 D U' F2 D F') // L5C 

B2 ^ U' @ B F D' F2 U D' B2 D L F' D'
@ = [U' B' U, F]
^ = [R, U L' U']

Solution: B2 R U L' U' R' U L U B' U F U' B U B D' F2 U D' B2 D L F' D' (25)

13 to L5C 

optimal insertions are 24 though


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## Ranzha (Oct 31, 2016)

Cale S said:


> Solution: ... (25)


Get rekt


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## Cale S (Oct 31, 2016)

Ranzha said:


> Get rekt



yes but then I got this for the 3rd one 


Spoiler



R' U' F L2 U2 L2 R2 B' F2 R2 B L R D' R2 B L2 D' F U' L U2 R' U' F

D (F' L') // 2x2x2
B2 U R' (R') // 2x2x3
U' B' U2 B2 // 3e6c

D @ B2 U R' U' B' U2 B2 R L F
@ = R' U' R U // L5C

D R' U' R U B2 U R' U' B' @ U2 B2 ^ R L F
@ = [B, U F U']
^ = [U2, R D' R']

Solution: D R' U' R U B2 U R' F U' B' U F' U B2 U2 R D' R' U2 R D L F (24)

Insertion Finder can't even use my first skeleton, but the L5C is optimal



good example of 3 edges + some corners skeleton


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## Ranzha (Oct 31, 2016)

Cale S said:


> yes but then I got this for the 3rd one
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


And we had the same skel for the first one. Vgj on that mean.

Will you be at FMC USA?


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## Cale S (Oct 31, 2016)

Ranzha said:


> And we had the same skel for the first one. Vgj on that mean.
> 
> Will you be at FMC USA?


 
no 

closest venue is 5 hours away which isn't too bad for a normal comp and I would go if I went to comps by myself, but going just for FMC is too far


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## Attila (Oct 31, 2016)

1st scramble from Hungarian Open:

R' U' F R' D2 U2 F2 L' U2 L2 R' B2 R2 D' L' B D' L2 R B R' U F' U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



D' L' B U2 B R2 U R2 L2 D' R2 B2 L' B R L' D' B2 L B2 L' U2 R B' F' - 25 moves

(B F) 2 pairs,
D' L' B U2 B orient corners and 4 edges,
R2 U R2 L2 D' 2 more edges,
R2 B2 L' - B R L' D' - B2 L B2 L' U2 R domino solution with inserted -B R L' D'-


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## DGCubes (Nov 6, 2016)

Just got my FMC PB of 26! Beat my old one by 7 moves! Super proud of the solution (and also super happy because of how lucky it ended up).

R' U' F L2 U2 B2 R' U2 L U2 F2 U2 F' R' B D2 L2 B2 F2 L' U' R2 F R' U' F



Spoiler: Solution



R' D2 R F2 // 2x2x2 block
F2 R2 // 2x2x3 block
B' F' U F U // F2L-1
switch
R U' R2 (U U') B' U D' R' D R U' B U // to L3C (technically pair 4 + OLL)

R' D2 R F2 R2 $ B' F' U F (U U') B' U R' D' R D U' B R2 U R'
$ = R' F' R B2 R' F R B2

Solution: R' D2 R F2 R F' R B2 R' F R B F' U F B' U R' D' R D U' B R2 U R'


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## TheDubDubJr (Nov 7, 2016)

Thank you everyone online for the congratulations for winning FMC USA 2016.
Here are the solutions.



Spoiler: Attempt #1 - 30



Scramble: R' U' F U' L2 B2 D' L2 D R2 D' U B' R2 D L2 R' U2 B D' B' F U' R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R U F' B D B' U2 R L2 D' R2 B U' D R2 D' L2 D B2 L2 U F' U R

start on normal
n) L' B R U' // EO
F2 L B' // 3x2x1
switch
i) D2 L' // 2x2x3
switch
n) R2 F R2 F2 R F2 R' F' // 17 to L5C

skeleton: L' B R U' F2 L B' R2 F R2 F2 R F2 R' ([2]512 - R B L2 B' R' B L2 ([1]234 - R2 B L B' R2 B L' B') B') F' L D2
cancelled 3 total for a 30

solution: L' B R U' F2 L B' R2 F R2 F2 R F2 B L2 B' R' B L2 R2 B L B' R2 B L' B2 F' L D2 // 30

Insertion Finder says 29 is optimal on 1st insertion cancelling 1 and nested cancelling 3.
Terrible insertions :'(





Spoiler: Attempt #2 - 30



Scramble: R' U' F D' F2 R2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U2 B R' F U L2 D2 R B F2 L' U' R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R U L F2 B' R' D2 L2 U' F' R B' U2 B2 D2 L2 B2 R2 F2 D R' U R

start on normal
n) R D' // 2x2x1
switch
i) U2 F2 L' // 2x2x2
U R' B R2 U2 // 2x2x3
switch
n) D' R' D R D' R2 D R B2 // 18 to L5C

skeleton: R ([2]345 - R' F2 R B R' F2 R B') D2 R' D R D' R2 D R B2 U2 R2 B' ([2]123 - B D R2 D' B' D F2 D') R U' L F2 U2
cancelled 4 total for a 30

solution: F2 R B R' F2 R B' D2 R' D R D' R2 D R B2 U2 R2 D R2 D' B' D F2 D' R U' L F2 U2 // 30

Insertion Finder says 29 is optimal on an insertion that I don't know why I didn't find it because it cancelled 3. Just some bad fluke.
Still bad insertions :/





Spoiler: Attempt #3 - 26



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D2 F2 R2 B' F2 L2 F' U2 F' U' L' R2 U R' B D F2 R' U R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R U' R F2 D' B' R U' R2 L U F U2 F L2 F2 B R2 F2 D2 R2 F' U R

start on normal
n) R' B' L' U' // EO
switch
i) L2 F R F2 D2 // 2x2x3
B L' B' L F' L' B' L F // Multislotting F2L
U B2 U F D' R2 D F' U2 // ZBLL

solution: R' B' L' U F D' R2 D F' U' B2 U' F' L' B L F L' B L B' D2 F2 R' F' L2 // 26

I guess not doing insertions worked out for me.



I was glad that my insertion luck didn't hinder me from winning.
Congratulations also to AJ and Mark.


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## Torch (Nov 7, 2016)

FMC USA 2016:



Spoiler: Attempt 1



Scramble: R' U' F U' L2 B2 D' L2 D R2 D' U B' R2 D L2 R' U2 B D' B' F U' R' U' F

F2 R' U2//2x2x1
F2 R' D'//Another 2x2x1
(F' L D' F2 B')//Pseudo F2L-1
B2 L U' L' U L' B L B'//F2L+EO
R U2 R' B' U R U R' U' B U//ZBLL

Solution: F2 R' U2 F2 R' D' B2 L U' L' U L' B L B' R U2 R' B' U R U R' U' B U B F2 D L' F (31)





Spoiler: Attempt 2



Scramble: R' U' F D' F2 R2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U2 B R' F U L2 D2 R B F2 L' U' R' U' F

R F R' F' D'//3x2x1
R2 B' L' D' L2//2x2x3
U R2 U' R' U2 R2//F2L-1
U' F' U' F R U R' U//L3C

Skeleton: R F R' F' D' R2 B' L' D' L2 U R2 U' R' U2 R2 U' F' U' [1] F R U R' U

[1]: [U R U', L']

Solution: R F R' F' D' R2 B' L' D' L2 U R2 U' R' U2 R2 U' F' R U' L' U R' U' L F R U R' U (30)





Spoiler: Attempt 3



DNS (I had to leave the comp at 4:00 PM)

I tried the last scramble last night before I went to bed, but I was too tired and gave up after like 15 minutes. Would have needed 31 to tie PB mean, 30 to break PB mean, or 28 to podium.



Congrats to the winners!


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## biscuit (Nov 8, 2016)

This is my first attempt ever. I got to f2l -1 and spent like 20 minutes trying to find any sort of decent continuation, but they all kinda sucked. My plan was get something that solves edges then try my hand at an insertion. Ran out of time though before finding anything half decent, so I'll just post up to F2l-1


U' R2 F2 L2 U2 F U2 B' L2 F' L2 D2 L U' L2 D2 R' D' U' L2

U2 L2 R2 D U L’ //2x2 6/6

R F’ R U F2 U2 F U F’ //3x2 9/15

U’ R U’ F’ R’ U2 R F U’ //F2l -1 9/24

Any critiques or suggestions welcome! I need to go read through a bunch of good solves now. I don't really get last layer and how it should be done yet.

That was fun! Not sure if I can see my self doing much other than if it's at a comp just because of the time.


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## TheDubDubJr (Nov 8, 2016)

biscuit said:


> This is my first attempt ever. I got to f2l -1 and spent like 20 minutes trying to find any sort of decent continuation, but they all kinda sucked. My plan was get something that solves edges then try my hand at an insertion. Ran out of time though before finding anything half decent, so I'll just post up to F2l-1
> 
> 
> U' R2 F2 L2 U2 F U2 B' L2 F' L2 D2 L U' L2 D2 R' D' U' L2
> ...



Hey Garrett, 
You can experiment with Pseudo blocks and premoves.

After your 2x2x2, 
U' R' // makes an additional 2x2x1 
then a U2 makes it a 2x2x3. In order to make it fixed, if you add a U2 as a premove before the scramble (a U2 is because that is the moves the block is offset by compared to the 2x2x2). 
It helps make it a 10move 2x2x3 instead of 15.

I don't have time to continue but I can private message you about it when I have more time later.


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## Rcuber123 (Nov 8, 2016)

biscuit said:


> This is my first attempt ever. I got to f2l -1 and spent like 20 minutes trying to find any sort of decent continuation, but they all kinda sucked. My plan was get something that solves edges then try my hand at an insertion. Ran out of time though before finding anything half decent, so I'll just post up to F2l-1
> 
> 
> U' R2 F2 L2 U2 F U2 B' L2 F' L2 D2 L U' L2 D2 R' D' U' L2
> ...



Read sebastianos complete FMC tutorial. it seems long but is really easy to read and helps a ton.


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## biscuit (Nov 8, 2016)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Hey Garrett,
> You can experiment with Pseudo blocks and premoves.
> 
> After your 2x2x2,
> ...



Thanks Walker! I don't have time to go through all of this currently, but I'll definitely go through it later.


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## biscuit (Nov 9, 2016)

Attempt two. The first 2x2x2 is not great, but OLL skip into J perm. Couldn't see a way to solve edges instead. Don't understand how someone goes about that. 



Spoiler



L' D2 R' D2 R' B2 D2 U2 B' R2 B2 L' B R D' B L D'

L R U’ R2 L2 F D L2 // 2x2x2 8/8

F’ U’ R U L’ U’ L // 2x2x3 7/15

U2 R U R’ U R’ // F2l - 1 6/21

U B U’ B2 // F2l + OLL skip 4/25

U’ B L B’ U’ B U B L’ B2 U B // PLL12/37


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## sqAree (Nov 9, 2016)

biscuit said:


> Attempt two. The first 2x2x2 is not great, but OLL skip into J perm. Couldn't see a way to solve edges instead. Don't understand how someone goes about that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In that case I would have gone for the OLL skip into J perm too. A 37 is good enough considering your F2L-1 is 21 moves. And it hurts to destroy the square and pair.
To solve edges I would make sure EO is already done and two out of three LL edges are correct in relation to each other, then do one trigger.
For example:
U B U B' //set up orange and green edge
U B U B' //solve edges with one trigger
And one of the corners even gets solved.
With that skeleton you could get a final solution of 36 moves according to Insertion Finder.
Generally when I do FMC I try out different F2L-1s until I find one where the edges are solvable with one trigger. Especially when EO is already done there is almost always a solution like that.


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## biscuit (Nov 10, 2016)

sqAree said:


> U B U B' //set up orange and green edge
> U B U B' //solve edges with one trigger
> And one of the corners even gets solved.



Where does this happen? Orange green gets solved as part of the F2l-1


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## sqAree (Nov 10, 2016)

biscuit said:


> Where does this happen? Orange green gets solved as part of the F2l-1



Full skeleton:

L R U’ R2 L2 F D L2 // 2x2x2 8/8
F’ U’ R U L’ U’ L // 2x2x3 7/15
U2 R U R’ U R’ // F2l - 1 6/21
U B U B' //set up orange and green edge
U B U B' //solve edges with one trigger

I actually mean orange-white and green-white edges here. Sorry, I should have clarified this, I was only thinking about LL edges and thought it was obvious when it wasn't. ^^


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## CyanSandwich (Nov 11, 2016)

This scramble is very nice, but I didn't manage a good result. Still a very interesting solution by my standards.


U L2 R2 F2 R2 D' L2 U R2 D' L' U F' D2 L' U R D' B' 


Spoiler



(L' U R B2 D' B') L' //2x2x3 (7)
(D' R D2 R) //F2L-1 (4/11)
(B' D' B) //5C2F (14)

sk: L' B' D B R' (*) D2 R' D B D B2 R' U' L (&)
* = R' L B2 L' R D2
& = L F L' F' L' U' L U (turns it from 3E5C to 4C)

new sk: L' B' D B R2 L B2 L' D B D B2 R' U' L2 (^) F L' F' L' U' L U (*)
^ = L B2 L' F L B2 L' F'
* = U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2 R' (Last minute rush)

sol: L' B' D B R2 L B2 L' D B D B2 R' U' L' B2 L' F L B2 L2 F' L' U' L U' R D2 R' U2 R D2 R' (33)


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## parsa (Nov 12, 2016)

My solution for this weekly
scramble: U B L U' B R2 U' L2 R2 F L2 B' F' L' U L2 B U2 R' D'


Spoiler: Solution



2X2X2: F2 R' B D 
Pair: U2 F' U F 
XCross: U' L U' F 
F2L-2: R U2 R' 
F2L-1: U2 B' U B 
Last F2L Pair: U L' U2 L 
ZBLL: R2 D' L F2 L' D R U2 R U2
(33 HTM)


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## hagner (Nov 12, 2016)

U B L U' B R2 U' L2 R2 F L2 B' F' L' U L2 B U2 R' D' 
FMC week 150 on https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/
(user: hagnercuber)

y2 U' F' B2 L U' L F2 R B U B' L U L' U2 y L' U' L U L' U' L2 y' R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' U2

this was amazing. i avg 50+ and got a sub 40 wtf

y2 U' F' B2 L U' // 1x2x2 and red/yellow
L F2 // insert red/yellow and 1x2x2
R B U B' // insert orange/yellow and green/orange pair
L U L' // green/red pair
U2 y L' U' L U L' U' L2 // last pair oll skip and cancellation in yperm
y R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'// yperm
U2 //AUF


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## Attila (Nov 12, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> This scramble is very nice, but I didn't manage a good result. Still a very interesting solution by my standards.
> 
> 
> U L2 R2 F2 R2 D' L2 U R2 D' L' U F' D2 L' U R D' B'
> ...



I found this 21-move solution:


Spoiler



L2 D' B R F' orient corners and 6 edges,
U' L2 B' R L' D orient edges,
L2 U F2 B2 D' F' D2 F L2 B'


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## Parham Saeednia (Nov 12, 2016)

My solution for weekly
scramble: U B L U' B R2 U' L2 R2 F L2 B' F' L' U L2 B U2 R' D'


Spoiler: Solution



On inv

2X2X2: B U + B' L U2 
2X2X3: D L2 D2 F2
EO: D' B D B'
F2L-1: L2 D2 L' D' L2 D2
AB3C: L2 D L D' L2 

Insert at+: L2 B' R' B L2 B' R B

Final solution: L2 D L' D' L2 D2 L2 D L D2 L2 B D' B' D F2 D2 L2 D' U2 L' R' B L2 B' R B L2 U' B' 
(30 HTM)


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## DGCubes (Nov 12, 2016)

Just a random 30-mover I did:



Spoiler: Solution



Scramble: R' U' F D2 B D2 L2 B L2 D2 F' U F R D2 B' L D2 F D' R U R' U' F

F2 B2 D B L' B2 // 2x2x2 + cross edge
switch
F R' F2 R' F2 R' // F2L-2
D F2 D2 L D L' // F2L-1
F U' R U R' F2 // to L3C

Skeleton: F2 B2 D B L' B2 F2 R U' R' @ U F' L D' L' D2 F2 D' R F2 R F2 R F'
@ = R' D R U2 R' D' R U2 // 2 move cancellation (optimal, according to IF )

Solution: F2 B2 D B L' B2 F2 R U' R2 D R U2 R' D' R U' F' L D' L' D2 F2 D' R F2 R F2 R F'


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## ChrisCuber123 (Nov 12, 2016)

Just tried the scrambles from Phillips Exeter Cube Day 2016 because I couldn't make it to the comp, and got a 31.00 mean rip (would have won by 3.33)

1) R' U' F D2 B2 L2 R2 F2 D L2 D2 U' B2 R D' U' F' L' B U2 L2 F R U R' U' F


Spoiler: Solution



normal: R' U' F D2 B2 L2 R2 F2 D L2 D2 U' B2 R D' U' F' L' B U2 L2 F R U R' U' F
inverse: F' U R U' R' F' L2 U2 B' L F U D R' B2 U D2 L2 D' F2 R2 L2 B2 D2 F' U R

U2 L2 B2 L2 D2 // 2x2x2 (5/5)
switch
F R F' R U' R' // 2x2x3 (6/11)
switch
R B' R' B2 U B2 U // F2L-1 (7/18)
R' B' U' B U R // L5C (cancels 1 with premove) (6/23)
skeleton: * U2 L2 B2 L2 D2 @ R B' R' B2 U B2 U R' B' U' B U R2 U R' F R' F'
insert at *: L D' L' U2 L D L' U2 (8-3)
insert at @: D L' D' R D L D' R' (8-3)
L D' L' U2 L D L B2 L2 D' L' D' R D L D' B' R' B2 U B2 U R' B' U' B U R2 U R' F R' F' (33)





Spoiler: Thoughts



OK solution to 5 corners I guess, and according to IF I found optimal insertions so yay



2) R' U' F D L2 D' L2 B2 L2 R2 D B2 U' B R2 F D L R B U2 L D' U' R' U' F


Spoiler: Solution



R' U' F D L2 D' L2 B2 L2 R2 D B2 U' B R2 F D L R B U2 L D' U' R' U' F
inverse: F' U R U D L' U2 B' R' L' D' F' R2 B' U B2 D' R2 L2 B2 L2 D L2 D' F' U R

D2 B // pseudo 2x2x2 (2/2)
switch
D' R // 2x2x2 (2/4)
U F L' F2 U F' U' // 2x2x3 (7/11)
U L' U2 F U F' L2 F // F2L-1 (8/19)
switch
D' L D L D' L D L' // L4C (8/27)
skeleton: D2 B D' L D L D' L D L' F' L2 * F U' F' U2 L F U' F2 L F' U' R' @ D
insert at *: L' B' L F L' B L F' (8-3)
insert at @: R U' R' D2 R U R' D2 (8-4)
D2 B D' L D L D' L D L' F' L B' L F L' B L U' F' U2 L F U' F2 L F' U2 R' D2 R U R' D' (34)





Spoiler: Thoughts



Not that great of a skeleton to 4 corners, but I got lazy 
Optimal insertions once again



3) R' U' F U2 L2 B' D2 B U2 R2 F U R U R2 F' R2 F2 D B2 D B R' U' F


Spoiler: Solution



R' U' F U2 L2 B' D2 B U2 R2 F U R U R2 F' R2 F2 D B2 D B R' U' F
inverse: F' U R B' D' B2 D' F2 R2 F R2 U' R' U' F' R2 U2 B' D2 B L2 U2 F' U R

start on inverse
L' B' D' F' R F2 L2 // 2x2x3 (7/7)
switch
B R' L B2 L' R2 F D F' D' R' D2 // L3C (finish f2l, cancel into f sexy f', leaves niklas lol) (12/19)
skeleton: B R' L B2 L' R2 F D F' D' R' D2 * L2 F2 R' F D B L
insert at *: D L D' R' D L' D' R (8-1)
B R' L B2 L' R2 F D F' D' R' D' L D' R' D L' D' R L2 F2 R' F D B L (26)





Spoiler: Thoughts



Pretty cool 2x2x3, and could have tried to find a better solution to 3 corners but again I was lazy
Wish the insertion was better, doing niklas at L3C would have also given 26 lol



Anything I could improve on in my solves?
hopefully there aren't any typos


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## Robert-Y (Nov 13, 2016)

Scramble: U F2 D R2 D B2 L2 B2 L2 U B2 L' R2 D' L F' R U R B
Inverse: B' R' U' R' F L' D R2 L B2 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 D' F2 U'

(U' L2 U2 D2 F' R2)

Help. I eventually got a 26 but it seems kinda bad considering how good the start is.


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## BQ (Nov 15, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> This scramble is very nice, but I didn't manage a good result. Still a very interesting solution by my standards.
> 
> 
> U L2 R2 F2 R2 D' L2 U R2 D' L' U F' D2 L' U R D' B'
> ...


See this: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/405a09f4cdc30326ceef35ca54fa336d.cube I searched it manually.
But I don't think human could find such insertions in short time.


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## CyanSandwich (Nov 15, 2016)

BQ said:


> See this: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/405a09f4cdc30326ceef35ca54fa336d.cube I searched it manually.
> But I don't think human could find such insertions in short time.


Thanks. Yeah those insertions are pretty crazy.


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## BQ (Nov 15, 2016)

CyanSandwich said:


> Thanks. Yeah those insertions are pretty crazy.


Here's the link for insertions with commutators: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/ec57a1d5741db804f155c69294aaf6e8.cube
That's also crazy in my opinion.


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## Robert-Y (Nov 15, 2016)

<R,U> scrambles, <R,U> solving, anyone?


Example 1:

R2 U2 R' U R2 U R U R U' R2 U' R' U R U2 R' U R U2 R2 U2 R2 U R' // scramble
R U' R2 U2 R2 U2 R' U' R U2 R' U' R U R2 U R' U' R' U' R2 U' R U2 R2 // inverse

Notice that there is a 2x2 square in FRD that can be solved with <R2,U>. I attempt to reduce the remainder of the pieces. Then I get lucky with my finish
(U2 R' U' R) // Summer Variation setup using WBO and GR as the pseudo pair
(U2 R' U R U R' U R) // SV
(R2 U2 R2 U' R2 U) // finish the solve...

U' R2 U R2 U2 R U' R U' R' U' R U2 R' U R U2 // final solution


Example 2:

R U R U' R' U R' U2 R U' R' U2 R' U' R U R2 U2 R2 U2 // scramble

Corners are just one move away from being reduced to <R2,U> so to me it makes sense to solve corners first.
R U2 R2 U' = R U2 R $ R U' // solve corners and 2 edges and leave a 5 edge cycle
$ = U R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U // insert a 2+2 swap to solve 2 of the 5 edges and leave a 3 edge cycle

R U2 R U R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 % U R U'
% = R' U' R' U' R U R U R U'

R U2 R U R2 U2 R2 U2 R U' R' U' R U R U R2 U' // final solution


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## Daniel Lin (Nov 18, 2016)

trying to get back into FMC
really frustrated though. can't get sub 30

B' U2 B R2 F' D2 F U2 B2 F' R2 D L' D U2 B D2 L2 U' L' U'

L2 D F' U2 F L' U' //FB
B F' R2 B2 R' F2 L' F
U2 F' L' F //SB
F B' R' F' B
U' F2 B2 D F2 @ B2 //LSE
@=B' R2 F' B U2 F


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## Cale S (Nov 18, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> trying to get back into FMC
> really frustrated though. can't get sub 30
> 
> B' U2 B R2 F' D2 F U2 B2 F' R2 D L' D U2 B D2 L2 U' L' U'
> ...



If you insert the edge comm before the F2 it still works and cancels a move


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## Brest (Nov 18, 2016)

Robert-Y said:


> Scramble: U F2 D R2 D B2 L2 B2 L2 U B2 L' R2 D' L F' R U R B
> Inverse: B' R' U' R' F L' D R2 L B2 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 D' F2 U'
> 
> (U' L2 U2 D2 F' R2)
> ...



On inverse
B' R' U' R' F L' D R2 L B2 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 D' F2 U'

U' L2 U2 D2 F' // as you had
R' B' R2 U2 R U // add EO and 2x2
R B R' B2 R B2 R' B' // standard insert and luck 2x2

IF gives 22 moves *\o/*


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## Cale S (Nov 19, 2016)

yay I inserted a 5-cycle of corners to solve L5C



Spoiler: German Weekly Comp spoilers



R' U' F D2 L' B2 F2 R2 U2 F2 D2 L' D2 L D F L D B R' B2 D R2 U R' U' F

(F L' D' R F) // EO
(R U R' D L2 U L2 U') // some edges?

U L2 U' L2 D' R U' R' F' R' D L F' ^
^ = F' B' D2 F D R' D2 R D' @ B // non optimal pair commutator to L5C

@ = (B2 L B2 L')3 // lol 5-cycle insertion






Solution: U L2 U' L2 D' R U' R' F' R' D L F2 B' D2 F D R' D2 R D' B2 L B2 L' B2 L B2 L' B2 L B2 L' B (34)

IF only gave a 36
such a complicated solution for a bad result, at least the mean was sub-30


----------



## Parham Saeednia (Nov 19, 2016)

My solution for dadams weekly comp:
Scramble: D' L' R B L' F' D2 U2 R' B' R2 D2 U' B' D2 U F' R D L2


Spoiler: solution



2x2x2: B U' L2 U2 L
EO+Pairs: F' D2 R2 F' R
2x2x3: B' D B
F2L-1: D + F' D' F2 
AB3C: D' F D F'
Insert at +: D' L' U L D L' U' L

Final: B U' L2 U2 L F' D2 R2 F' R B' D B L' U L D L' U' L F' D' F2 D' F D F'
27 HTM


----------



## Cale S (Nov 20, 2016)

tried the first scramble of FMC USA



Spoiler



R' U' F U' L2 B2 D' L2 D R2 D' U B' R2 D L2 R' U2 B D' B' F U' R' U' F

U L' U L // square
F' U' R' U' // lots of stuff out of nowhere

from here I found (R D' R' D B U B R B' R' U') which gives 15 to L5C
found a 25 with this

but I still had 15 minutes left so I went back with a different skeleton I had and found an even cooler 25: 
F' (U F') // square
(L U2 R) U R' L // 2x2x3
(U' F R U' R' F' U') // 3e3c

F' U R' L U F R U R' F' U R' ^ U2 L' F U' @
^ = D' F' D F 
@ = [U F2 U', B]

Final solution: F' U R' L U F R U R' F' U R' D' F' D F U2 L' F' U' B U F2 U' B' (25)


----------



## Daniel Lin (Nov 20, 2016)

how often do you FMCers use LL algs? compared to insertions

http://porkynator.altervista.org/6-10_HTM_LL.txt


----------



## Cale S (Nov 20, 2016)

second scramble of FMC USA


Spoiler



R' U' F D' F2 R2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U2 B R' F U L2 D2 R B F2 L' U' R' U' F

R D' // square
(U2 F2 L') // 2x2x2
(U R' B R2 U2 B2) // F2L - 1 minus corner
D' (D') // F2L minus 2 corners
D' R2 D R D' R D R' // L5C

R D R2 D R D' R D R' D @ B2 U2 R2 B' R % U' L F2 U2
@ = [D', R U R']
% = [R', B L B']

Solution: R D R2 D R D' R D U R' D R U' R' B2 U2 R2 L B' R B L' B' U' L F2 U2

27 moves



and the third scramble


Spoiler



R' U' F R2 D2 F2 R2 B' F2 L2 F' U2 F' U' L' R2 U R' B D F2 R' U R' U' F

R' (L2 R2 F) // 1x2x3 first block
U L2 B' U' B (U') // second block + EO (lol)
D U' F2 D U' // F2L edges
U' R' U R2 B R' U' R2 U R B' R2 U' R U // diagpi ZBLL lol

Solution: R' U L2 B' U' B D U' F2 D U2 R' U R2 B R' U' R2 U R B' R2 U' R U2 F' R2 L2

28 moves

this was a really nice scramble but I ended up doing a roux solve with diagpi ZBLL at the end lol



25, 27, 28 = 26.67


----------



## guysensei1 (Nov 20, 2016)

29 on weekly FMC
D' L' R B L' F' D2 U2 R' B' R2 D2 U' B' D2 U F' R D L2


Spoiler



B2 U L' D L2 * F L2 R'//223 (8)
F2 D' L D' L'//F2L-1+EO (5)
F D' F2 D F' D'//4C (6)
*=R ** B' R' F R B R' F'
**=L F L' B' L F' L' B

final: B2 U L' D L' R F L' B' L F' L' R' F R B R2 L2 F2 D' L D' L' F D' F2 D F' D' (29)


----------



## Hssandwich (Nov 20, 2016)

B2 F2 R2 B2 D' L2 D L2 F2 D' L2 B U' B L' B' L' R' F' U R'

Found this while doing 3x3 and couldn't resist trying it for FMC 



Spoiler



B2 F2 R2 B2 D' L2 D L2 F2 D' L2 B U' B L' B' L' R' F' U R'
i: R U' F R L B L B' U B' L2 D F2 L2 D' L2 D B2 R2 F2 B2

R2 D U' L' //pseudo 223
//After switching, I couldn't find any really good continuations, so before fixing the 223, I tried making more blocks. I stumbled across this one
(R' F R F' L F') //pseudo F2L-1
//I was ready to switch, but as I tried solving a 2x1x1 on U with R U2 R', I saw it solved the blue F2L!
(R U2 *R'*) //F2L
//Then a super easy tripod LL to finish
(*R* F R2 D R D2 F' D) //finish (also cancelling 2 moves)

Solution: R2 D U' L' D' F' D2 R' D' R2 F' U2 R' F L' F R' F' R (19)


----------



## RhysC (Nov 21, 2016)

Great start, terrible finish. Oh well. I guess sub-30 will have to wait for another day. Feel free to use this awesome start, though.



Spoiler



S: F' U2 F2 R2 F' U2 B' R2 U2 F2 U R D R' F' L' B2 U' B2 D'
I: D B2 U B2 L F R D' R' U' F2 U2 R2 B U2 F R2 F2 U2 F

L' F2 // Psuedo 1x2x2 thing (2/23)
<F' D F B U> // 2x2x3 (5/23)
<D' R D R2> // F2L-1 (4/23)
<D R' D' R D R D F D' F' R' F D F'> AB3C (14/23)

Skeleton: L' F' D' F' R F D # F' D' R' D' R' D R D' R2 D' R' D U' B' F' D' F (24/24 [1 move cancelled by NISS])

# - [R2,(F L F')] (1 move cancelled)

Solution: L' F' D' F' R F D R2 F L F' R2 F L' F2 D' R' D' R' D R D' R2 D' R' D U' B' F' D' F (31)

Just checked with IF and insertion is optimal as well... damn.


----------



## ottozing (Nov 21, 2016)

RhysC said:


> Feel free to use this awesome start, though.





Spoiler: How I used the start



S: F' U2 F2 R2 F' U2 B' R2 U2 F2 U R D R' F' L' B2 U' B2 D'
I: D B2 U B2 L F R D' R' U' F2 U2 R2 B U2 F R2 F2 U2 F

L' F2 // Psuedo 1x2x2 thing (2/18)
<F' D F B U> // 2x2x3 (5/18)
<D' R D R2> // F2L-1 (4/18)
<D2 R' B' D' B D R> // AB4C (9/18)

IF says 28 is optimal on that


----------



## CyanSandwich (Nov 22, 2016)

Weekly FMC



Spoiler



Scramble: D2 F' R' D' L B D2 R' B2 L' D F' L U D2 B L' R U2 F2

Feel free to try to get something good out of this. I ended up using 28 to 3C because I was low on time.

(B D F2 R' D2 F2 D2 R) //222+pairs
U' R' F2 R //4C4E (10)

sk: U R' F2 D2 F2 D2 R F2 D' B'


----------



## Emilien (Nov 22, 2016)

Hssandwich said:


> B2 F2 R2 B2 D' L2 D L2 F2 D' L2 B U' B L' B' L' R' F' U R'
> 
> Found this while doing 3x3 and couldn't resist trying it for FMC


B2 F2 R2 B2 D' L2 D L2 F2 D' L2 B U' B L' B' L' R' F' U R'

R2 // '2x2x2' (1)
(D' U F' L' B' F U2) // 2x2x3 (7)
(U' L U B U' F' L F U) // Lol (9)

Solution : R2 U' F' L' F U B' U' L' U' F' B L F U' D (16)


----------



## Ranzha (Nov 22, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> how often do you FMCers use LL algs? compared to insertions
> 
> http://porkynator.altervista.org/6-10_HTM_LL.txt


I'm in the process of hammering in the last few of the 6-9-move LLs.
I made a trainer: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ArjEsqHo3wkKlMHKVjzl5uTa885jGpnXVbn_SMqPzdo/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## Daniel Lin (Nov 23, 2016)

Ranzha said:


> I'm in the process of hammering in the last few of the 6-9-move LLs.
> I made a trainer: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ArjEsqHo3wkKlMHKVjzl5uTa885jGpnXVbn_SMqPzdo/edit?usp=sharing


yeah I saw that on the facebook group 

but how often do people usually use them? i'm not sure if should learn them or just use comm insertions for now


----------



## Cale S (Nov 23, 2016)

Daniel Lin said:


> yeah I saw that on the facebook group
> 
> but how often do people usually use them? i'm not sure if should learn them or just use comm insertions for now



Use LSLL tricks when nice ones come up, otherwise use insertions


----------



## ChrisCuber123 (Nov 24, 2016)

My solution for weekly FMC:


Spoiler



F2 D' B' F2 R F2 // EO2x2x2 (6/6)
L2 R' U R // 2x2x3 (4/10)
U2 L' U' L U L2 U' ^ L // L5C (8/18)
insert at ^: B L F' L' B' L * F L' (8, cancels 2)
insert at *: L' F' R' F L F' R F (8, cancels 3)

final solution: F2 D' B' F2 R F2 L2 R' U R U2 L' U' L U L2 U' B L F' L' B' F' R' F L F' R F2 (29)


----------



## parsa (Nov 24, 2016)

Weekly FMC 


Spoiler



D2 F' R' D' L B D2 R' B2 L' D F' L U D2 B L' R U2 F2

2x2x1+EO: F2 + D' B'
2x2x2: F2 R F2
Xcross+Pair: U' L
F2L-2: U2 L' U L
AB3C: U2 R' L U' L' R U'

Insert at +: L' U' L D' L' U L D (2moves cancelled)

Final: F2 L' U' L D' L' U L F2 B' R F2 U' L U2 L' U L U2 R' L U' L' R U'
(25 HTM)


----------



## RhysC (Nov 26, 2016)

Probably the silliest solution that I've ever come up with



Spoiler



S: R2 U' B2 R2 D F2 U2 R2 D' L2 D B F U' F R2 U R2 F L' B'
I: B L F' R2 U' R2 F' U F' B' D' L2 D R2 U2 F2 D' R2 B2 U R2

[R D' F2] // Pseudo 2x2x2 (3/32)
[B R2 B' U' R' D'] // Pseudo 2x2x3 (6/32)
D B U2 B' U' R2 // F2L-1 (6/32)
[R B' R' B] // EO (4/32)
[U2 B U' B' U B U2 B' U B U B' U] // Forced LL Skip (13/32)

Solution: D B U2 B' U' R2 U' B U' B' U' B U2 B' U' B U B' U2 B' R B R' D R U B R2 B' F2 D R' (32)

There were some promising other progressions, but they all led to dead ends 



Sorry for double post but tfw you get lucky with insertions and get a pb by 5 moves (weekly fmc)



Spoiler



S: D2 F' R' D' L B D2 R' B2 L' D F' L U D2 B L' R U2 F2
I: F2 U2 R' L B' D2 U' L' F D' L B2 R D2 B' L' D R F D2

U R B' R' F2 D2 B D // 2x2x3 (8/20)
B' U' L' B' L // F2L-1 (5/20)
[U2 R B' R' B2 U' B'] // AB4C (7/20)

Skeleton: U R B' R' F2 D2 B D B' U' L' # B' L B U B2 R B R' U2 (20/20)

# - L F' L' B2 L F L' B2 (cancels 3)

New skeleton: U R B' R' # F2 D2 B D B' U' F' L' B2 L F L' B L B U B2 R B R' U2 (25)

# - R B R' F' R B' R' F (cancels 7 lol wtf)

Solution: U F' R B' R' F' D2 B D B' U' F' L' B2 L F L' B L B U B2 R B R' U2 (26)

Optimal according to IF  Insertions saved the day for once in my life


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## Daniel Lin (Nov 26, 2016)

forum comp
trying to use the trick where you insert one move


Spoiler



B2 F2 D' R2 U2 B2 U B2 D B2 R' F D2 U' L' U2 L' R2 D R'

B2//square
L U F' L F//square
U2 L F U F//square
U' L//4e4c

can't find a good insertion. oh well


----------



## Robert-Y (Nov 28, 2016)

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/PSKubing2016/results/all#e333fm_f

Getting a 24 wasn't good enough to get on the podium 
Also no DNFs.


----------



## mycube (Nov 28, 2016)

Robert-Y said:


> https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/PSKubing2016/results/all#e333fm_f
> 
> Getting a 24 wasn't good enough to get on the podium
> Also no DNFs.



This is totally correct, indeed it is the best results not on the podium:



Spoiler: Best results in fourth place, single



Here are only results listed for competitions with best of 1 or best of 2, no results with a mean (see second spoiler for results with mean)

[td]SingleNameCompetiton  1  24  Linus Fresz  PSKubing2016  2  26  Fritz Löhr  HessenOpen2016  2  26  Alexander Botz  HessenOpen2016  4  27  Vincent Sheu  WC2013  4  27  Jan Bentlage  FrankfurtCubeDays2015  4  27  Alexander Botz  FrankfurtCubeDays2015  7  28  Robert Yau  WelcomeThayCambridge2015  7  28  Carsten Matheus  N8W8Summer2016  7  28  Linus Fresz  GermanOpen2016  10  29  Sam Boyles  USNationals2010  10  29  Jan Bentlage  GermanNationals2015  10  29  Andreas Pohl  GermanNationals2015  10  29  Linus Fresz  BWOpen2013  10  29  Emanuel Rheinert  GermanOpen2015  10  29  Jan Bentlage  ErfurtOpen2015  16  30  Manuel Guse  GermanNationals2013  16  30  Moritz Karl  GermanNationals2013  16  30  Chester Lian  USNationals2012  16  30  Tim Reynolds  WC2011  16  30  Tommaso Raposio  ItalianChampionship2016  16  30  Justin Harder  USNationals2012  16  30  Edoardo Disarò  ItalianChampionship2016  23  31  Jan Bentlage  ZonhovenOpen2014  23  31  Laura Ohrndorf  GermanOpen2014  23  31  Linus Fresz  GermanNationals2014  23  31  Ivan Torgashov  MPEIOpen2014  23  31  Yu Nakajima (???)  USNationals2011  23  31  Tomoaki Okayama (????)  SaarlandOpen2012  23  31  Yuuki Kobayashi (????)  Tachikawa3x3Fest2014  23  31  Moritz Karl  FranconiaOpen2015  23  31  Lucas Garron  Euro2010  23  31  Dennis Loose  GermanOpen2013  23  31  Marcin Jakubowski  PolishNationals2013  23  31  Jan Bentlage  ZonhovenOpen2013  23  31  Jan Bentlage  FrankfurtCubeDays2016  23  31  Clément Gallet  MontpellierOpen2010  23  31  Lorenzo Vigani Poli  MontpellierOpen2011  23  31  Erik Akkersdijk  ZonhovenOpen2013  23  31  Matthew Sheerin  MacclesfieldOpen2016  40  32  Martin Zahradník  CzechOpen2013  40  32  Jan Bentlage  MunichOpen2014  40  32  Taku Yanai (???)  HokurikuEveOpen2013  40  32  Yu Nakajima (???)  TachikawaFest2013  40  32  Grzegorz ?uczyna  JuraOpen2012  40  32  Shuto Ueno (????)  WasedaBrainChallenge2015  40  32  Akihiro Ishida (????)  KantoOpen2014  40  32  Erik Johnson  USNationals2009  40  32  Jakub Kipa  WarsawCubeMasters2015  40  32  Wojciech Knott  WarsawCubeMasters2015  40  32  Cornelius Dieckmann  FranconiaWinter2015  40  32  Joël van Noort  CzechOpen2010  40  32  Frank Severinsen  CzechOpen2010  40  32  Olivier Polspoel  LyonOpen2011  40  32  Jakub Cabaj  LyonOpen2011  40  32  Clément Gallet  LyonOpen2011  40  32  Sébastien Auroux  BerlinSummerCubeDays2016  40  32  Piotr Tokarski  IIMasovianOpenPlock2016  40  32  Bence Barát  CzechOpen2010  40  32  Andrii Kompaniiets (?????? ??????????)  CowboysSummer2015  40  32  Péter Pozsgai  HungarianOpen2012  40  32  Krzysztof Kuncki  IIMasovianOpenPlock2016  62  33  Mitsuki Gunji (????)  JapanOpen2012  62  33  Jan Bentlage  DutchOpen2011  62  33  Shotaro Makisumi (?????)  BeneluxOpen2010  62  33  Jens Diewald  BeneluxOpen2010  62  33  François Courtès  GermanOpen2012  62  33  Manuel Guse  GermanOpen2012  62  33  Erik Akkersdijk  ZuneOpen2012  62  33  Jakub Cabaj  PolishNationals2012  62  33  Sébastien Auroux  BelgianOpen2010  62  33  Andrew Ricci  HarvardFall2012  62  33  Rowe Hessler  HarvardFall2012  62  33  Moritz Karl  MunichOpen2012  62  33  Anton Rostovikov  MPEIOpen2012  62  33  Moritz Karl  FrankfurtOpen2012  62  33  Antoine Perdereau  PuydeDomeOpen2012  62  33  Tim Reynolds  AachenSummer2012  62  33  Ralph Eikelenberg  N8W8Summer2012  62  33  Daniel Sheppard  DanishOpen2011  62  33  Arnaud van Galen  N8W8Summer2013  62  33  Barnabás Turi  HungarianNationals2015  62  33  Piotr Kózka  CzechOpen2011  62  33  Evan Brown  Indiana2014  62  33  Micha? Pleskowicz  PolishOpen2013  62  33  Laura Ohrndorf  HessenOpen2014  62  33  Ryan DeLine  Mishawaka3x3Day2016  62  33  Pablo Aguilar Dominguez  MadridOpen2013 
[/td]
[td]

[/td][td]
[/td]


[td]

A lot of German competitions in this ranking 



Spoiler: Best results in fourth place, mean




[td]SingleMeanNameCompetiton  1  24  2767  Marcel Peters  WC2015  2  26  2800  Jan Bentlage  GermanNationals2016  2  23  2800  Marcel Peters  SebraOpen2016  2  22  2800  Kit Clement  Indiana2016  5  26  2833  Jan Bentlage  FMCEurope2016  6  26  2900  Wojciech Szatanowski  BONDOpen2016  6  28  2900  Walker Welch  USNationals2016  6  28  2900  Tomoaki Okayama (????)  CubeCampKanazawa2013  9  28  2933  Linus Fresz  Cubelonia2016  10  28  2967  Mats Valk  USNationals2014  10  27  2967  Yunke Zhang (???)  AsianChampionship2016  10  25  2967  Micha? Pleskowicz  PolishChampionship2015  10  27  2967  Mats Valk  AsianChampionship2016  14  30  3000  Ziheng Ma (???)  CrossstraitFMC2016  14  28  3000  Andreas Pohl  SebraOpen2015  14  28  3000  Qijun Miao (???)  FMCAsia2015  17  28  3033  Jeremy Fleischman  PleaseBeQuiet2015  17  30  3033  Rami Sbahi  Michigan2015  17  26  3033  Mat?j Grohmann  CzechOpen2015  20  27  3067  Rami Sbahi  FMCUSA2014  20  29  3067  Lucas Wesche  SebraOpen2014  20  27  3067  Ryan DeLine  KeepPortlandQuiet2016  20  28  3067  Piotr Kuchta  Euro2014  20  26  3067  Tim Reynolds  USNationals2015  20  28  3067  Brandon Harnish  FMCUSA2016  20  27  3067  Raymond Goslow  FMCUSA2015  27  28  3133  Rami Sbahi  Michigan2016  28  31  3167  Zijia Feng (???)  CubeofOddNumbers2016  29  29  3200  Minato Imai (???)  CubeCampinKanazawa2016  29  29  3200  Xingye Zhu (???)  ChinaChampionship2015  31  29  3267  Riley Woo  MentalBreakdown2016  31  29  3267  Andreas Pohl  BerlinOpen2013  31  29  3267  Julian David  Michigan2015  31  28  3267  Ping-Yueh Huang (???)  CrossstraitCubing2016  35  32  3300  Maarten Smit  EatSleepCubeRepeat2014  35  32  3300  Joshua Feran  BlindandWhatnot2016  35  24  3300  Andreas Pohl  ZonhovenOpen2015  38  26  3333  Zijian Chen (???)  CrossstraitFMC2014  38  25  3333  Cale Schoon  AnotherFMC2015  38  31  3333  Balázs Bernát  HungarianOpen2015  38  31  3333  Feihong Zhang (???)  CrossstraitFMC2016  38  29  3333  Nikita Loyko  BSTUOpen2015  43  31  3367  Piotr Kuchta  PolishOpen2015  43  32  3367  Timothy Sun  FantasticManhattan2016  43  30  3367  Hideki Niina (????)  CubeCampinKanazawa2015  43  30  3367  Bence János Csuti  BratislavaOpen2015  43  33  3367  Clément Gallet  DolmenOpen2012  48  29  3400  Marcin Stachura  GdanskRubiksCubeDay2015  48  33  3400  Liudi Sun (???)  XianNewYear2016  50  32  3433  Andrew Nathenson  MentalBreakdown2016  50  34  3433  Zhenyu Zhang (???)  HefeiOpen2015  50  29  3433  Artem Melikian (????? ???????)  CowboysFMCParty2016  50  34  3433  Hideki Niina (????)  CubeCampinKanazawa2014  50  32  3433  Laura Ohrndorf  TubingenOpen2016 
[/td]
[td]

[/td][td]
[/td]


[td]

code: https://github.com/LinusFresz/python-WCA[/td][/td]


----------



## Bubtore (Nov 28, 2016)

Hmmm, European Championships are not in there since no one was fourth.
(I was fifth with 28.33  )
So I guess there are surely other competition where this happened.


----------



## mycube (Nov 29, 2016)

This is totally true what you are saying, Reto  And quite tricky to realize a method to avoid this. Actually there are 2 more competitions where this happened:

Euro2016
FMCEurope2015
MoratallaOpenRubik2014

This is only for means, for singles there are ~100 competitions with > 3 people in the top3 for a round (well.. more than one person in third place). To be honest I am a bit too lazy to implement this into my script, so I hope this information is enough for you


----------



## Cale S (Dec 3, 2016)

second time I've used this kind of cancellation to go from 28 to 25

German comp spoilers


Spoiler



R' U' F D U' B2 D L2 U' R2 B' L D' R D2 B2 D' B' U2 F D2 U2 R' U' F

(U2 F' L') // 1x2x3
D2 F' U L' U2 // 2x2x3
D' R B' D' B F D F' // F2L
(D2 B2 U' B D' B' U B2 D' B' D2 B) // ZBLL

D2 F' U L' U2 D' R [B' D' B F D F' B' D2 B] D B2 U' B D B' U B2 D2 L F U2
replace moves in brackets with B' D B F D' F' 

Solution: D2 F' U L' U2 D' R B' D B F D' F' D B2 U' B D B' U B2 D2 L F U2


----------



## bubbagrub (Dec 3, 2016)

Cale S said:


> second time I've used this kind of cancellation to go from 28 to 25
> 
> German comp spoilers
> 
> ...


How on earth do you find that kind of thing...?


----------



## RhysC (Dec 3, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> How on earth do you find that kind of thing...?



I'm pretty sure he just thought that that section of his skeleton looked just like a bunch of triggers and decided to randomly reverse it, giving him a really easy case


----------



## Cale S (Dec 3, 2016)

RhysC said:


> I'm pretty sure he just thought that that section of his skeleton looked just like a bunch of triggers and decided to randomly reverse it, giving him a really easy case



That's how I found it the first time, this time I had done it before and thought it would also work


----------



## bubbagrub (Dec 3, 2016)

Cale S said:


> That's how I found it the first time, this time I had done it before and thought it would also work



I'm being dense, but I don't get how it worked -- could you explain what you did there?


----------



## Cale S (Dec 3, 2016)

bubbagrub said:


> I'm being dense, but I don't get how it worked -- could you explain what you did there?



If you do those moves on a solved cube, it's very easy to see the 6 move solution


----------



## Parham Saeednia (Dec 3, 2016)

My soloution for weekly FMC:


Spoiler



scramble:F R' D' F' U' B F2 L B2 D F' U R2 D L' R B R B L
On inverse scramble

R F2//Pseudo 2x2x2
B2 R' B' D' B' D2//Square
B' R' B R' D' U R' U'//Psuedo F2L-1
R' F2 U F U'//F2l-1+EO
R2 U' R U R' U' R2 U R2//Finish

Final solution: R2 U' R2 U R U' R' U R2 U F' U' F2 R U R U' D R B' R B D2 B D B R B2 F2 R'
30 HTM


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## bubbagrub (Dec 3, 2016)

Cale S said:


> If you do those moves on a solved cube, it's very easy to see the 6 move solution


OK -- makes sense. And you found that by noticing that it was a set of triggers?


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## Cale S (Dec 4, 2016)

this solution was kind of crazy, from the /r/cubers weekly competition

R' U' F U' F2 D R2 U2 B2 D2 R F' R2 B2 R D F' R2 B2 U F R' U' F


Spoiler



U' R' // square + 2 pairs
D' R D L2 U2 // 3c6e

lolskeleton: U' R' D' ^ R D L2 @ U2
@ = L D U' % F2 U D' L
^ = [E', R U R']
% = [D' L2 D, R2]

Solution: U' R' U' B U B' D' U R U' D L' U' L2 D R2 D' L2 D R2 F2 U D' L U2

25 moves

7 moves to just 3 comms lol

within a few minutes I found 17 to good L6C which resulted in a 28, then I tried this and wrote down the solution with less than a minute left. I used so many stickers for this...


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## porkynator (Dec 4, 2016)

My solutions from PoliMi Open 2016.



Spoiler: NR Mo3 26.33






Spoiler: First Solve: 28 HTM



Scramble: R' U' F D' R2 B2 U B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 L' F' U' R' B' R2 D F' R B2 R' U2 R' U' F
Solution: R2 D B' D' B D R F2 R' B' R F2 R' D' B2 D2 L B2 L' F' L B2 L' U' R2 L' B D2

On inverse
D2 B' L //EO (3/3)
R2 U * F D2 //2x2x2 + 2 squares (4/7)
B2 D + B D' B' D B D' R2 //All but 5 corners (9/16)

* = L B2 L' F L B2 L' F'
+ = R F2 R' B R F2 R' B'

Great start, but poor continuation and bad insertions.





Spoiler: Second Solve: 25 HTM



Scramble: R' U' F U2 F2 D' F2 U' R2 B2 D' B2 F' R U B' D2 L2 U B L2 F2 U R' U' F
Solution: B2 R2 L B F' D B' D' F D' L' F L F2 L' F' L F L U' F R U' B D

NISS solve
B2 R2 //Square and 2 pairs (2/2)
(D' B' U R') //Expand to 3x2x1, more pairs (4/6)
L B D B' D2 //2x2x2 (5/11)
(F' U) //Another square (2/13)
L F L F2 L' F' L F L //All but 3 corners (9/22)

Skeleton: B2 R2 L B * D B' D2 L' F L F2 L' F' L F L U' F R U' B D
* = F' D B' D' F D B D'





Spoiler: Third Solve: 26 HTM



Scramble: R' U' F D2 B2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 F U R B2 D' R F U2 B L D' F' R' U' F
Solution: U2 L D U R L2 B L F L B' L F' L2 F D' L' D L D F' D' F' L' F2 U2

U2 L D U R //2x2x2 + pairs (5/5)
(U2 F2 L F) //XXcross + pairs ready on normal scramble (4/9)
L2 B L F L B' //F2L-1 + square (6/15)
L F' L2 //All but 3 pairs (3/18)
F D' L' D L D F' D' //Finish (8/26)

Another very good start was
L U' D R //EO + Pairs (4/4)
With possibil continuation
B2 D F R2 B2
B U B2 R2 B U2 R2 //All but 3 corners and 3 edges in 15
But I couldn't find good insertions.


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## Torch (Dec 5, 2016)

Here is my 27 move solution from the 3rd scramble of Athens Winter 2016. It's the third 27 I've gotten officially, and 27 is still my at-home PB too!

Scramble (Generated with Cube Explorer): B D2 L' D2 F R' U2 B2 R D' L2 F B' L2 F R2 F' R2

U2//Pair
(F D U2 F)//2x2x2
(L B L')//Pseudo 2x2x3 + 3 Pairs
(D2 R')//some more blocks
B2 R2 B'//F2L-1
F D2 F' D2 R' D R D'//L3C

Skeleton: U2 B2 R2 B' F D2 F' D2 R' D [1] R D' R D2 L B' L' F' U2 D' F' 

[1]: [B', R F' R']

Solution: U2 B2 R2 B' F D2 F' D2 R' D B' R F' R' B R F D' R D2 L B' L' F' U2 D' F' (27)


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## Jan Bentlage (Dec 5, 2016)

porkynator said:


> My solutions from PoliMi Open 2016.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you use D' F' L F D F' L F as block comm you can cancel 5 moves 

U2 L D U R L2 B L F L B' L F' L2 D' F' L' F D (F' L F F' L' F2) U2 (21)


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## porkynator (Dec 5, 2016)

Jan Bentlage said:


> If you use D' F' L F D F' L F as block comm you can cancel 5 moves
> 
> U2 L D U R L2 B L F L B' L F' L2 D' F' L' F D (F' L F F' L' F2) U2 (21)



I am always afraid I miss something when doing those pair 3-cycles... I can never remember that particular case, maybe because I didn't fully understand it. Now I see that it is like [D', B' U' B] for corners, but with wide moves [D', Bw' U' Bw].

So, my next goal is to beat the 24.67 average that I missed because of this.


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## guysensei1 (Dec 7, 2016)

Weekly FMC, 28 


Spoiler



F' D' F U' B D2//2x2x2
U D R D' R2 F U' R2 F//F2L-1
R U' * B U B2 R' B R2//3C
*=U' B D2 B' U B D2 B'

Final: F' D' F U' B D2 U D R D' R2 F U' R2 F R U2 B D2 B' U B D2 U B2 R' B R2


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## Parham Saeednia (Dec 7, 2016)

28 For Weekly FMC


Spoiler



Scramble:U' F B' R' D B2 U F' R L D B R' U2 L2 B2 D' U2 F D2
On inverse
Pre-scramble: U F2
2x2x2: D B2 L2 U2
F21-1: L2 D' L D' B 
AB3C: L2 B' L B L2 D L' D' L' D L D'
Skeleton on normal: F2 U' D L' D' L D L D' L2 B' L' B L2 B' D L' D L2 U2 L2 + B2 D'
+: L2 B R B' L2 B R' B'

Final: F2 U' D L' D' L D L D' L2 B' L' B L2 B' D L' D L2 U2 B R B' L2 B R' B D'
(28 HTM)


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## okayama (Dec 10, 2016)

My solutions from FMC Asia 2016.

1st scramble: R' U' F D L2 B2 U' F2 L2 F2 R2 U F2 D2 F' L' D2 B2 D' B L U' R' F' R' U' F
1st solution: U2 R2 L' U2 F2 D' R F' U F U' F2 D' B' D B D F2 U2 F' D' F U2 F' D2 F' R' D' (28 moves)


Spoiler



15 min backup solution.

2x2x2 block: U2 R2 L' U2
More square: F2 D' R F' U F U'
More square: F2
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: D'
All but 3 corners: B' D B D F * D F' R' D'

Insert at *: F U2 F' D' F U2 F' D

After Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot,

B R' U' B U B D B D

also leaves 3 corners in 22 moves, but it doesn't give a better solution.



2nd scramble: R' U' F L2 F2 D2 U2 F2 R' D2 F2 L' F' R' D' R B' F' L' B' D U B R' U' F
2nd solution: U2 L2 B R' F' R' U F2 D2 L' U L U' L' U' L U' L2 U2 L U L' U L U2 L' B' U B L' (30 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.
(Moves in brackets are on inverse)

1x2x2 block: U2 L2 B
1x2x3 block: R' F' R' U F2
2x2x3 block: D2
Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: (L B' U' B L)
F2L minus 1 slot: L'
Finish F2L: U L U L'
LL: L U2 L' U' L U' L', L' U2 L U L' U L, U2
Correction: L' B' U B L'

Not so bad scramble, so I should have found a better solution for this scramble, but unfortunately I couldn't. 



3rd scramble: R' U' F L2 B2 U2 L R2 U2 L' D2 B2 D' B' F2 L B' D L2 D2 F' L' U' R' U' F
3rd solution: D' B' U2 L2 D' L2 B L' D2 R' B' L B' U B' U R' U2 R U' R' U' F R' F' R F2 L (28 moves)


Spoiler



15 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: F2 L

1st square: D'
2nd square: B' U2
3rd square: L2 D' L2 B L'
F2L minus 1 slot: D2 R' B' L B' U B' U R'
More square: U2 R U' R'
All: U' F R' F' R
Correction: F2 L



28, 30, 28 = 28.67 (got 3rd place)

The result of the two winners is 26.67, excellent, congrats! I hope we can see their solutions.


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## Attila (Dec 10, 2016)

okayama said:


> My solutions from FMC Asia 2016.
> 
> 1st scramble: R' U' F D L2 B2 U' F2 L2 F2 R2 U F2 D2 F' L' D2 B2 D' B L U' R' F' R' U' F
> 1st solution: U2 R2 L' U2 F2 D' R F' U F U' F2 D' B' D B D F2 U2 F' D' F U2 F' D2 F' R' D' (28 moves)
> ...


I found this solutions for 1st scramble:



Spoiler



within 1 hr:

F2 U R2 U D’ L’ U’ F B’ D’ F B’ L B’ R2 B’ U D’ F2 U D’ 21 moves (17 STM)



F2 U R2 U D’ L’ U’ orient corners and 6 edges,

F B’ D’ F B’ L domino reduction,

B’ R2 B’ R2 U2 D2 to L3E,

D2 U2 R2 U D’ F2 U D’.

No time limit:

F2 U R2 U D’ L’ D’ L2 U D’ B’ F2 U2 F’ U2 D B F’ R’ 19 moves (16 STM)

F2 U R2 U D’ L’ U’ same as my first start,

(R F B’ D’ ) domino reduction,

switch back to normal sramble with premoves D B F’ R’,

F2 U R2 U D’ L’ D’ L2 U D’ /F2 U R2 U D’ L’ U’- U D’ L2 U D’/ inserted 3 edges-cycle,

B’ F2 U2 F’ U2 finish.


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## Hssandwich (Dec 12, 2016)

Trying the FMC Asia scrambles:

R' U' F D L2 B2 U' F2 L2 F2 R2 U F2 D2 F' L' D2 B2 D' B L U' R' F' R' U' F
i: F' U R F R U L' B' D B2 D2 L F D2 F2 U' R2 F2 L2 F2 U B2 L2 D' F' U R


Spoiler



U2 R2 L' U2 //2x2x2 4
(D' R2 D2 F' R) //2x2x3 9
(D R F' R') //F2L-1 13
(D F' R' D R) //ab4c 18

*U2 R2 L' U2 R' D' ^ R F D' R F R' D' R' F D2 R2 D
Insert at *: L' D' L U2 L' D L U2
Insert at ^: D R2 D' L' D R2 D' L

L' D' L U2 L' D R2 U2 R D' L' D R2 D' L R F D' R F R' D' R' F D2 R2 D //27

Couldn't find anything after the 222 and all other 222s led to nothing, eventually found this.



R' U' F L2 F2 D2 U2 F2 R' D2 F2 L' F' R' D' R B' F' L' B' D U B R' U' F
i: F' U R B' U' D' B L F B R' D R F L F2 D2 R F2 U2 D2 F2 L2 F' U R


Spoiler



R2 F' D U2 L2 F D' //2x2x3 7
(L U L' U2 L' U') //F2L-1 13
(B L B' U2 B' U' B) //ab3c 20

R2 F' D U2 L2 * F D' B' U B U2 B L' B' U L U2 L U' L'
Insert at *: D' B D F D' B' D F'

R2 F' D U2 L2 D' B D F D' B2 U B U2 B L' B' U L U2 L U' L' //23

Really liked this scramble, had to play around a bit after the 223 though.



R' U' F L2 B2 U2 L R2 U2 L' D2 B2 D' B' F2 L B' D L2 D2 F' L' U' R' U' F
i: F' U R U L F D2 L2 D' B L' F2 B D B2 D2 L U2 R2 L' U2 B2 L2 F' U R


Spoiler



(B') F L2 R D2 // 2x2x2 5
U' (F2 L2 F' B' U B) F // F2L-1 13
(L2 B' U B U2 L2 U L') //ab4c 21

F L2 R * D2 U' F L U' L2 U2 B' U' ^ B L2 B' U' B F L2 F2 B
Insert at *: R D' R' U' R D R' U
Insert at ^: U B' D2 B U' B' D2 B

F2 L R2 D' R' U' R D R' D2 F L U' L2 U2 B2 D2 B U' B' D2 B2 L2 B' U' B F L2 F2 B //30

Ugh scramble


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## coldsun0630 (Dec 12, 2016)

Lee Choong-myoung's winning solutions from FMC Asia 2016.

/

<1st solve>
Scramble: R' U' F D L2 B2 U' F2 L2 F2 R2 U F2 D2 F' L' D2 B2 D' B L U' R' F' R' U' F
Solution: U2 R2 L' U2 F R' F D2 F2 D' L B L' F L B' L' F2 D2 R D' R F2 D R' (25)


Spoiler



U2 R2 L' U2 // 222 (4/4)
F R' F D2 // pseudo-223 (4/8)
(R D' F) // F2L-1 (3/11)
(F R' F') // pair (2/13)
(F D R' D' F') // Tripod (3/16)
(F D' F D F2) // AB3C (2/18)

Skeleton: U2 R2 L' U2 F R' F D2 F2 D' [1] F' D2 R D' R F2 D R' (18)
Insert at [1]: L B L' F L B' L' F' (7/25)



<2nd solve>
Scramble: R' U' F L2 F2 D2 U2 F2 R' D2 F2 L' F' R' D' R B' F' L' B' D U B R' U' F
Solution: R2 F' U D F L' F' L' D' L' B' L' B L2 D L D' L' U' L U L2 U D L2 F D' (27)


Spoiler



(D F' D') // pseudo-122 (3/3)
R2 F' // 222 (2/5)
(D L2 D' U') // pseudo-223 (2/7)
U // 223 (1/8)
(L2 U' L' U) // F2L-1 (4/12)
D F L' F' L' D' // EO+pair (6/18)
(L' B' L' B L2 D L D' L') // solve the rest (9/27)



<3rd solve>
Scramble: R' U' F L2 B2 U2 L R2 U2 L' D2 B2 D' B' F2 L B' D L2 D2 F' L' U' R' U' F
Solution: L' B2 R2 B R' F2 R B2 R' F2 L' U L2 F L2 F U D' L U L' D L U2 L' U2 L2 B (28)


Spoiler



(B') // pair (1/1)
L' B2 R2 B' R' L' // pseudo-223 (6/7)
(L2 U2) // 223 (2/9)
U L2 F2 // F2L-1 (3/12)
F' L2 F U L U' L' // AB4C (6/18)

Skeleton: L' B2 R2 B' [2] R' L' U L2 F L2 F U [1] L U' L' U2 L2 B (18)
Insert at [1]: D' L U L' D L U' L' (5/23)
Insert at [2]: B2 R' F2 R B2 R' F2 R (5/28)



25, 27, 28 = 26.67 mo3


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## TheDubDubJr (Dec 13, 2016)

Here are the solutions to my 25.67 FMC Mean from Mega Minnesota Winter 2016.



Spoiler: Attempt #1 - 26



Scramble: R' U' F D' F2 D2 F2 U R2 B2 D B2 D L2 R' B2 F' L' B' F L' D2 U' R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R U D2 L F' B L F B2 R L2 D' B2 D' B2 R2 U' F2 D2 F2 D F' U R

all on normal:
D' F L' D' B' // EO (5/5)
D2 R // 2x2x1 (2/7)
L F2 // 2x2x2 (2/9)
U' B2 R // 12 to L7C (3/12) [L3C & L4C separate cycles]

Skeleton: D' F L' D' B' D2 R L F2 U' B2 ([4] B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 R') R // leaves 16 to Good L6C

D' F L' D' ([2]123 - D R2 D' L' D R2 D' L) B' ([2]456 - B L' B' R B L B' R') D2 R L F2 U' R F2 R' B2 R F2 // insertions together cancel 2 more moves

Solution: D' F L' R2 D' L' D R2 D' B' R B L B' R' D2 R L F2 U' R F2 R' B2 R F2 (26)

(Haven't checked IF because the site is down for me)





Spoiler: Attempt #2 - 26



Scramble: R' U' F L2 B' F' D2 U2 B L2 U2 R2 U' F' R F' D F' D U' L2 U' B D' R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R D B' U L2 U D' F D' F R' F U R2 U2 L2 B' U2 D2 F B L2 F' U R

start on normal
n U F' R' // EO (3/3)
switch
i U // 2x2x1 (1/4)
switch
n D' R2 B' // 2x2x2 (3/7)
D F D' L2 // 2x2x3 (4/11)
F D' F2 D2 F // 16 to L5C (5/16)

Skeleton: U F' R' D' R2 B' D ([4]512 - D' B U2 B' D B U2 B') F D' L2 F D' ([2]345 - D B U2 B' D' B U2 B') F2 D2 F U'

Solution: U F' R' D' R2 U2 B' D B U2 B' F D' L2 F B U2 B' D' B U2 B' F2 D2 F U' (26)





Spoiler: Attempt #3 - 25



Scramble: R' U' F U2 F' R2 F U2 B2 D2 L2 D' B' R2 B L' F' R' F' D B' L U R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R U' L' B D' F R F L B' R2 B D L2 D2 B2 U2 F' R2 F U2 F' U R

start on inverse
i F B2 D' R' F' // 2x2x2 (5/5)
switch
n L2 D2 // 2x2x1 block (2/7)
switch
i L D' B // 2x2x3 + 2x2x1 block (3/10)
switch
n L2 D L2 B L' B' L2 D' L // 19 to L3C (9/19)

Skeleton: L2 D2 L2 D L2 B L' B' L2 D' L B' D L' F ([2] F' D' B D F D' B' D) R D B2 F' 

Solution: L2 D2 L2 D L2 B L' B' L2 D' L B' D L' D' B D F D' B' D R D B2 F' (25)



Interesting fact, I have the most fully sub-27 means with 2. The only other 2 people that have 1 fully sub-27 means are 
João Pedro Batista Ribeiro Costa at Worlds 2015 (25, 26, 26) and Marcel Peters WR Average at Schwandorf (24, 25, 24). (Obviously anyone can manipulate data to make themselves look better  , but its interesting.)


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## Kit Clement (Dec 13, 2016)

Want to try the other FMC Asia scrambles too, but this is what I got on the first one.



Spoiler: FMC Asia 2016 Scramble 1



All on inverse 
R2 L' D R' L' //EO (5/5) 
U F' U2 R2 //1x2x3 (4/9) 
B2 D' F2 //+1x2x2 (3/12) 
B U F //almost F2L-1 (3/15) 
D' R2 D F D F' //L3C (6/21) 

Skel: F D' F' D' R2 D F' U' B' F2 D B2 R2 U2 F U' L (1) R D' L R2 

1: U' R D R' U R D R' (cancels 5, lol) 

Final: F D' F' D' R2 D F' U' B' F2 D B2 R2 U2 F U' L U' R D R' U L R' (24)


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## CxCxC (Dec 15, 2016)

Hello everyone,

I am new to FMC and I needed some help :

Scramble : R'U'F U2 B2 R2 U L2 U' F2 U2 B' R2 D2 U' F L' R' F U2 R F2 R' U' F

First, I created a 2x2x2 block by : [B] : F D R B' R'
and then a extended it to a 2x2x3 by : [2B] : R U L U' L' U R' F
So basically , [B+2B] : F D R B' U L U' L' U R' F creates a 2x2x3 block {2 moves got cancelled}

Then I didn't find anything that was convenient, so I switched to the inverse by : [B+2B]'(Scramble)'

Then I completed the first two layers by :
(U F B' U B F') (L' U2 L U' L' U L) and then OLL+PLL+AUF which gives 46 moves for total

But then, I found out :
(U F B' U B F') (L' U2 L U2 L' U L F U' F' L' U L) >OLL skip
and then I got a J-perm : 14 moves
this totalled up to 44 moves[/B]
{Actually, more moves cancel out while writing out the solution, but they are not too much}
[B]
Where can I reduce more moves? How to complete the cube after 2x2x3 efficiently? I was not able to get the last block for building F2L-1 in this scramble. On my first scramble, {it was a really easy one, I was able to achieve 31 moves : I was able to get F2L-1 in just 17 moves}

I need some advice : I am able to easily get a 2x2x3 in most of the cases but I generally get stuck up after that. How can I proceed?

Plus, can someone show how to use insertions in this solve?

Thanks in advance,
CxCxC


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## Cale S (Dec 16, 2016)

Spoiler



R' U' F R2 U2 L2 U2 F D2 L2 F2 L2 F L' U' F2 R2 B' L U' R U2 L2 U' R' U' F

L (F D' R') // EO
(F U B U F2 D) // 3e4c

L D' F2 U' B' U' @ F' ^ R D F' 
^ = L F' % U2 F U2 L'
@ = [U B' U', F]
% = [F, U' B' U]

Solution: L D' F2 U' B2 U' F U B U' F2 L U' B' U F' U' B U' F U2 L' R D F'

25 Moves

for some reason Insertion Finder found my cool 6 move thing but not optimal L5C...


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## xyzzy (Dec 16, 2016)

CxCxC said:


> Where can I reduce more moves? How to complete the cube after 2x2x3 efficiently? I was not able to get the last block for building F2L-1 in this scramble.



You could… just use Petrus. The 2x2x3 block you started with is workable; doing EO cancels the last move. After that you get an easy F2L because two of the pairs happen to be formed.

F D R B' U L U' L' U R' // 223 (10/10)
L F2 U' F' // EO (4/14)
L U' L' U' L' // pseudo-F2L (5/19)

At this point you can either use a double Sune to end with an A perm (11-4 moves double Sune, 2 moves adjust, 9 moves A perm), or you can do an Antisune to end with L3C (7-3 moves Antisune, 2 moves adjust, 9 moves L3C). The latter has fewer moves, so if we were restricted to a linear solve, we'd choose to do that. But we're not, so let's do an insertion.

L U2 L' U' L' U' L U L2 // edges; 3 corners left (9-3/25)

Skeleton: F # D R B' U L U' L' U R' L F2 U' F' L U' L' U L' U' L U' L' U L2
Insert B' U2 B D B' U2 B D' at # to cycle the three corners and cancel two moves, leading to a 31-move solution. This insertion happens to be optimal.

With your original start, you can also cancel a lot of moves by doing a lefty J perm (it's actually a block commutator and you get to cancel away the setup moves).

F D R B' U L U' L' U R' F // 223 (11/11)
switch to inverse:
U F B' U B F' L' U2 L U2 L' U L F U' F' L' U L // F2L + OLL (19/30)
L' U' L F L' U' L U L F' L2 U L U // J perm (14-8/36)


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## Cale S (Dec 16, 2016)

20 pb single for the German weekly competition 


Spoiler



R' U' F L2 D2 R2 U' F2 L2 B2 R2 B F' D' B2 R' D' R2 B R U2 R' U' F

(F' L2 B' D') // EO
R' U2 R2 // 1x2x3
(F' B R' B2) // F2L - 1
(F' L F' L' F' L F L' F) // ayylmao

Solution: R' U2 R2 F' L F' L' F L F L' F B2 R B' F D B L2 F

20 moves


found in 20 minutes
made a 25.33 mean, 2nd solve should have been better...


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## Parham Saeednia (Dec 16, 2016)

My solution for superflip scramble:
found in less than one hour


Spoiler



Scramble:U R2 F B R B2 R U2 L B2 R U' D' R2 F R' L B2 U2 F2
EO: F U R D B' L' F'
EO line: U B2
Square: R2 D2
2X2X3+square: R2 F2 R2 L+
AB5C: F2 R'
+: L' F R' F' L# F R F'
#: L D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U2
Final solution: F U R D B' L' F' U B2 R2 D2 R2 F2 R2 F R' F' L2 D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U2 F R F R'
(29 HTM)


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## guysensei1 (Dec 16, 2016)

Weekly FMC, 23 moves dahell


Spoiler



Scramble: R B2 R2 L' F2 D2 L U2 D' F2 B U2 D' B2 U F2 L R B2 R2

L D L2//lol 2x2x2
Inv
L' R2 D L B' D2 B'//2x2x3
D//F2L-1
Normal
R' F' R F//make pair
R' B' F' R F R' B R2//force OLL skip, get PLL skip too

Final L D L2 R' F' R F R' B' F' R F R' B R2 D' B D2 B L' D' R2 L (23) lolwat


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## Parham Saeednia (Dec 16, 2016)

Weekly FMC


Spoiler



Scramble: R B2 R2 L' F2 D2 L U2 D' F2 B U2 D' B2 U F2 L R B2 R2

L2 U' D'+ B'//EO
L' U L U2 R2 U2//2X2X3
D' L' D R' D' L//F2L-1
D' R2 D R//AB3C

+: R2 B' L' B R2 B' L B

Final solution: L2 U' D' R2 B' L' B R2 B' U L U2 R2 U2 D' L' D R' D' L D' R2 D R
(24HTM)


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## vm70 (Dec 16, 2016)

This is my second (and worst) FMC solve. My other solve was 57 OBTM.

SCRAMBLE:
R F' D R B2 F2 D2 F2 L B R2 D' U2 B2 L2 R D L2 F L2

U B' U' B R F R // 2x2x2
L U2 L2 U L U2 L // 2x3x3
x' F R U R' U' F' y f R U R' U' f' F R U R' U' F' // Line & Pi 2LOLL
y R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L U' // J[a] perm + AUF
(L' B L B' U B' U B U x') //F2L inverted
(U2 F2 U2 L F L') // F2L-1 (inverted



Spoiler



Solution with pre-moves:
https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=(R-_F_R_F-_U_F-_U_F_U_x)_//_F2L_pre&#45;moved (U2-_B2-_U2-_R_B_R-)_//_F2L&#45;1_pre&#45;moved R_F-_D_R_B2 F2_D2_F2_L_B R2_D-_U2_B2_L2 R_D_L2-_F_L2&title=FMC Test Normal&alg=(U_B-_U-_B)_(R_F_R)_//_2x2 (L_U2_L2_U_L_U2_L)_//_2x2x3 (x-_F_R_U_R-_U-_F-)_y_(f_R_U_R-_U-_f-_F_R_U_R-_U-_F-)_//_Line&#2b;Blinker_2Look_OLL (y_R-_U_L-_U2_R_U-_R-_U2_R_L)_U-_//J[a]_perm_&#2b;_AUF 

Solution without pre-moves:
https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=R_F-_D_R_B2- F2-_D2-_F2-_L_B R2-_D-_U2-_B2-_L2- R_D_L2-_F_L2-&title=FMC Test Normal w/o Pre-Moves&alg=(U_B-_U-_B)_(R_F_R)_//_2x2 (L_U2_L2_U_L_U2_L)_//_2x3x3 (x-_F_R_U_R-_U-_F-)_y_(f_R_U_R-_U-_f-_F_R_U_R-_U-_F-)_//_Line_&_Blinker_2LOLL (y_R-_U_L-_U2_R_U-_R-_U2_R_L)_U-_//_J[a]_perm_&#2b;_AUF (L-_B_L_B-_U_B-_U_B_U_x-)_//F2L_(inverted) (U2_F2_U2_L_F_L-)_//_F2L&#45;1_(inverted) 



I tried to use my understanding of FreeFOP for this solve. 58 HTM.
Go ahead and critique me. Please, I seriously had no idea what to do.

EDIT: Changed parentheses because I didn't know how to use them in FMC prior to @xyzzy telling me how to. Edit again for changing 2Look OLL names.


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## xyzzy (Dec 17, 2016)

vm70 said:


> This is my second (and worst) FMC solve. My other solve was 57 OBTM.
> 
> SCRAMBLE:
> R F' D R B2 F2 D2 F2 L B R2 D' U2 B2 L2 R D L2 F L2
> ...



Found this shorter 223:
B L B' // square (3/3)
D F2 D' // square (3/6)
R F R B // 223 (4/10)

Forming lots of squares (2x2x1 blocks) and hoping they join up nicely is a decent strategy in general. (There's actually a two-move square in the inverse, but continuing from there was kinda awkward.)

As for your solution, the most obvious thing to work on is to get rid of all the rotations. Also, don't write your moves within parentheses, because that's taken to mean that you're applying the moves on the inverse scramble (which you're not). If you don't know enough of OLL to one-look most cases, it usually pays off to do edge control or edge orientation before you reach the last layer. Even if you do know full OLL, having edges oriented allows you to mess with Sunes and such more effectively.

The shortest LL algs to flip two edges are 6 moves long and the shortest LL algs to flip four edges are 11 moves long, whereas in Petrus, you can usually flip two edges in 3 moves and four edges in 5.



Spoiler: A Petrus-style solve with the same 2x2x3



U B' U' B R F R // 222 (7/7)
L U2 L2 U L U2 L // 223 (7/14)
inv: R B' R' // EO (3/17)
inv: U2 B2 U2 B2 U' // F2L (5/22)
U' // adjust (1/23)
D' B' D B' D' B2 D // OCLL (7/30)
D B' U B2 D' B D B2 U' D' // J perm (10-3/37)

In this case, doing COLL is not a good idea because that takes 10 moves and you end up with a Z perm, which takes 12 moves (although you can always cancel at least two moves). ZBLL would be ideal, but I don't know this case.



Or actually, now that I'm going through your solution… why would you sledgehammer that last F2L pair in when all the edges are already oriented? (????)



Spoiler: what you did



U B' U' B R F R // 222 (7/7)
L U2 L2 U L U2 L // 223 (7/14)
inv: R B' R' U2 B2 U2 // F2L-1 (6/20)
inv: B' U' B' U // set up pair (4/24)
inv: B' U R' U' R // sledgehammer (5/29)





Spoiler: what you can try instead



U B' U' B R F R // 222 (7/7)
L U2 L2 U L U2 L // 223 (7/14)
inv: R B' R' U2 B2 U2 // F2L-1 (6/20)
inv: B' U' B' U // set up pair (4/24)
inv: B U' B2 U // insert (4/28)

This ends in a nice ZBLL case that's just a sexy move conjugated by a sledgehammer. (There's another optimal alg for this case that's something like wide sune + fruruf.)

inv: R' U R U' B2 R B' R' B' U R' U' R B // ZBLL (14/42)

You can also do a Niklas + R perm (7+14=21 moves) or Antisune + V perm (7+14=21 moves).





Spoiler: or a six-move F2L insert



U B' U' B R F R // 222 (7/7)
L U2 L2 U L U2 L // 223 (7/14)
inv: R B' R' U2 B2 U2 // F2L-1 (6/20)
inv: B2 R2 D B D' B' R2 // F2L (7/27)
inv: D' B2 U B' D B U' B D' B D // COLL (11/38)
// EPLL skip

(or Sune/Niklas + PLL, which would be 20-ish moves)



Or you can spot that you have a pair already formed and insert it to get a pseudo-F2L, like what I did in the first spoilerbox. Moving on to your last layer.



Spoiler: what you did



U R B R' B' U' // EO (6/6)
L B U B' U' L' R D B D' B' R' // CO (12/18)
J perm // (11/29)





Spoiler: alternatives



L' D L B L' D' L D B' D' // OLL (10/10)
U B' D B2 U' B U B2 U' D' B' // J perm (11/21)

inv: R' L2 U L' U L U2 L' U L' R // OLL (11/11)
inv: D' B U' B2 D B' U L R B2 L' R' // G perm (12/23)

U R B R' B' U' // EO (6/6)
D B' U' B D' B' U // CP (7/13)
U' B2 U B U' B U // CO (7-3/17)
U2 B L R' U2 L' R B U2 // U perm (9-1/25)

U R B R' B' U' // EO (6/6)
D B2 D2 B' D2 B' D2 B2 D // CO (9/15)
J perm // (11/26)

U R B R' B' U' // EO (6/6)
D' B2 D2 B D2 B D2 B2 D' // CO (9/15)
B' R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R // A perm (10/25)

(all of these kind of suck :v)


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## xyzzy (Dec 17, 2016)

(loldoublepost)

I was practising earlier and I noticed that for corner 3-cycle insertions, stepping through every single move in the skeleton was kinda pointless; you could step through it two moves at a time and still be able to find all the insertions that cancel moves.

Is this something top FMCers already know, or is there some caveat to this shortcut?


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## guysensei1 (Dec 17, 2016)

xyzzy said:


> (loldoublepost)
> 
> I was practising earlier and I noticed that for corner 3-cycle insertions, stepping through every single move in the skeleton was kinda pointless; you could step through it two moves at a time and still be able to find all the insertions that cancel moves.
> 
> Is this something top FMCers already know, or is there some caveat to this shortcut?


Perhaps in between the two moves the corners setup to a commutator with more than one 8 move solution, and you'd miss possible cancellations this way.


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## EMI (Dec 17, 2016)

xyzzy said:


> (loldoublepost)
> 
> I was practising earlier and I noticed that for corner 3-cycle insertions, stepping through every single move in the skeleton was kinda pointless; you could step through it two moves at a time and still be able to find all the insertions that cancel moves.
> 
> Is this something top FMCers already know, or is there some caveat to this shortcut?



I go through the skeleton from right to left and only check whether the first move of the commutator can be the current skeleton move _to the left_. This is equivalent to only checking each second spot as you suggest, and it is really fast because you always know with which move your commutator has to start with to cancel two moves (requires less thinking imo). A standard L3C insertion probably takes less than a minute this way.


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## xyzzy (Dec 17, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> Perhaps in between the two moves the corners setup to a commutator with more than one 8 move solution, and you'd miss possible cancellations this way.



Hmm. I was thinking that if you could insert an 8-move commutator that cancels at least two moves on one side (e.g. ... R [R', U L U'] F2 ...) then you can always "shift" the insertion location over the cancelled move (... [U L U', R] R F2 ...), but this doesn't seem to work if you cancel only one move (or one move on both sides).



EMI said:


> I go through the skeleton from right to left and only check whether the first move of the commutator can be the current skeleton move _to the left_.



Wow, this sounds very efficient. I've been doing it in the opposite direction (left to right on skeleton, checking for cancellations to the right), but this might be considerably faster.


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## Cale S (Dec 17, 2016)

xyzzy said:


> (loldoublepost)
> 
> I was practising earlier and I noticed that for corner 3-cycle insertions, stepping through every single move in the skeleton was kinda pointless; you could step through it two moves at a time and still be able to find all the insertions that cancel moves.
> 
> Is this something top FMCers already know, or is there some caveat to this shortcut?



I've thought of this as well, but when insertions only cancel 1 move it's worth it to go move by move in that region


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## vm70 (Dec 18, 2016)

@xyzzy Thanks a lot, I really needed this! I'm still new to the idea of FMC; hopefully with more practice I'll get better solves.

I don't know COLL or even ZBLL; I guess I have a lot to work on from here.


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## xyzzy (Dec 18, 2016)

vm70 said:


> I don't know COLL or even ZBLL; I guess I have a lot to work on from here.



You don't really _need_ full OLL or COLL (or god forbid, full ZBLL); last layer algs that are longer than 10 moves are very rarely useful unless you one-look the last layer. The most useful LL alg is really just Sune/Antisune (R U R' U R U2 R'); you can use Sunes to solve the edges and then commutators to solve the last few corners. (Exception: if you get Z perm edges, you can't solve that with a single Sune.)

In fact, when you reach the last slot, what you should do isn't even so much to solve the whole pair (unless it's already formed), but to solve the last five edges. This leaves at most five corners unsolved, and you can proceed to writing out your skeleton (all the moves you've done so far in the correct order, including those on inverse) and stepping through it to insert commutators.

Something I forgot to mention in the previous post was that you really should use optimal algs for the easy cases. The pi OCLL case can be done with R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R or its mirror, which is shorter than the 12-move alg you used. Most PLLs are useless, but do learn optimal algs for at least U perm (9f), H perm (9f), and T perm (10f). (The standard A perm algs and the <R,U,L> J perm algs are already optimal.)


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## guysensei1 (Dec 18, 2016)

xyzzy said:


> You don't really _need_ full OLL or COLL (or god forbid, full ZBLL); last layer algs that are longer than 10 moves are very rarely useful unless you one-look the last layer. The most useful LL alg is really just Sune/Antisune (R U R' U R U2 R'); you can use Sunes to solve the edges and then commutators to solve the last few corners. (Exception: if you get Z perm edges, you can't solve that with a single Sune.)
> 
> In fact, when you reach the last slot, what you should do isn't even so much to solve the whole pair (unless it's already formed), but to solve the last five edges. This leaves at most five corners unsolved, and you can proceed to writing out your skeleton (all the moves you've done so far in the correct order, including those on inverse) and stepping through it to insert commutators.
> 
> Something I forgot to mention in the previous post was that you really should use optimal algs for the easy cases. The pi OCLL case can be done with R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R or its mirror, which is shorter than the 12-move alg you used. Most PLLs are useless, but do learn optimal algs for at least U perm (9f), H perm (9f), and T perm (10f). (The standard A perm algs and the <R,U,L> J perm algs are already optimal.)


You should almost always look for insertions rather than using an A perm, unless there's crazy cancellations.


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## YouCubing (Dec 22, 2016)

an attempt I did for a video, pretty good for me 
scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 L B2 L' B2 R' B2 L' B2 D2 B D B2 U B2 L2 B' R' U2 F' U R

D' R' F U L' R' D // 2x2x2 block
B L' B' L2 B2 // 2x2x3 block
L' U' L' U2 L' // F2L-1
F U F2 // LS (canceling into OLL)
L F2 R' F2 L' F2 R F // finish OLL (canceling into PLL)
L2 F' R' F L2 F' R F' // finish PLL
36 moves (finished with 20:04 left of the clock)
I should really learn some real techniques, but I'm lazy


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## Hssandwich (Dec 22, 2016)

^^ Try finding a 2x2x2 with 6 moves or less, then from there, a 2x2x3 in about 10. 'Guidelines' for the number of moves for each step really helped me. I think there are some more on Sebastiano's tutorial.


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## guysensei1 (Dec 25, 2016)

Weekly FMC, 27


Spoiler



Scramble: U2 R2 D2 L B2 D R2 B' U L R' U D B' R2 F L R' D2 B
F2 D F' *U*//1x2x3 (4/4)
inverse,
B' F R F' U F'//2x2x3 (6/10)
U B' U' L B2 L2 //F2L-1 (6/16)
B U B2 U' B'//Tripod block (5/21)
L' B L B' L U' L' *U*//lol (8/29)
2 moves cancel
final: F2 D F' L U L' B L' B' L B U B2 U' B' L2 B2 L' U B U' F U' F R' F' B


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## Parham Saeednia (Dec 25, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> Weekly FMC, 27
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



I found 24:


Spoiler



+ F2 D//2x2x1
R B' U'//2x2x1
F2 D2 B2 F//Pseudo F2L-1
( R U F')//Finish F2L
(F U2 F' U2 F' L F L' U)//AB3C

+: L' B2 L F2 L' B2 L F2

Final: L' B2 L F2 L' B2 L D R B' U' F2 D2 B2 F U' L F' L' F U2 F U R'
(24HTM)


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## Attila (Dec 25, 2016)

From the German Forum:



1. R' U' F L2 B' R2 F2 L2 D2 U2 B' R U' R U2 B U2 F' L' B' F2 D' R' U' F


Spoiler



L2 R2 more pairs,
(R F') orient corners,
(R F2 D R2 B F' U2 R') domino reduction, 
( B2 R2 D R2 B2 U' . D') AB3E,
. = R' L B2 R L' D2
Final solution: L2 R2 D' L R' B2 L' R U B2 R2 D' R2 B2 R U2 F B' R2 D' F2 R' F R'


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## Rcuber123 (Dec 25, 2016)

guysensei1 said:


> Weekly FMC, 27
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


LOL found the exact same solution

Fun fact about that solution:


Spoiler



much more logical ab3c skeleton:
F2 D F' U (4/4)
( F B' R F' U2 B' U' F' L B2 L2 B U B2 U' B' L' B L B L U' L' U) (24/28)
Congrats we found a 8-7=1 insertion


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## ChrisCuber123 (Dec 25, 2016)

Solution for weekly:


Spoiler



F2 D // square
R B' U' // another square
F2 D2 B2 F2 // psF2L-1
R' premove
F' U' F U2 F R' F' R U // L4C
skele: F2 D R B' U' F2 D2 B2 F * U' F U2 F R' F' R U R' ^
Insert at *: F' D' F U F' D F U'
Insert at ^: R U' R' D' R U R' D
Final solution: F2 D R B' U' F2 D2 B2 D' F U F' D F U2 F U2 F R' F' D' R U R' D (25)

Missed the 24 that Parham Saeednia found, but I don't really care lol


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## G2013 (Dec 25, 2016)

Weekly Solve.
Any tips you could give me? Thanks!
Moves between brackets are done on inverse scramble.


Spoiler



Scramble: U2 R2 D2 L B2 D R2 B' U L R' U D B' R2 F L R' D2 B
Inverse: B' D2 R L' F' R2 B D' U' R L' U' B R2 D' B2 L' D2 R2 U2

(F R) //2x2x1
(D2 F') //2x2x1
U' F R U2 F R2 D //2x2x3 + 2x2x1, almost F2L-1
(R B' R B) //2 pairs
B2 //F2L-1 pseudo, premove B
(B') //Premove
(D' R' D) //2x2x1
R' U R2 D' R' D R2 U' R //Pair 3-cycle to L3C
+
B' D' B U' B' D B U //Comm.
Backup solve ^. 37 HTM

Skeleton:
U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 D' R' D R2 U' R D' R D R' B R' F D2 R' F' (27 HTM)

Insertion:
U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 (R' D2 R U' R' D2 R U) D' R' D R2 U' R D' R D R' B R' F D2 R' F' 27+8-1=34
U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 D' R' D R2 (R U L U' R' U L' U') U' R D' R D R' B R' F D2 R' F' 27+8-2=33 -> this
U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 D' R' D R2 U' R D' R D R' (R U R' D2 R U' R' D2) B R' F D2 R' F' 27+8-2=33

Final solve: U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 D' R' D R' U L U' R' U L' U2 R D' R D R' B R' F D2 R' F' (33)


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## BenBergen (Dec 28, 2016)

I don't ACTUALLY do FMC (meaning I use Petrus and try to find easy last layer cases), but this was a pretty cool solve

L' D' L B2 D R2 U R2 F D2 F2 L F2 R2 L' U2 D2 F2 U2

2x2x2 - F U' B2 R' F U B2
2x2x3 - D2 R' F R' F B' D B
EO - (z2) F R U2 R2 F' R
Thing - U' F2
Last 5 corners - (y) U2 R D' R' U2 R D R L'
(z) D' R U2 R' D R U2 R'

40 moves


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## Kristian OE (Dec 30, 2016)

Hi,

Earlier, i tried to do a FMC solve, and i also wanted to use NISS. The Solution is not that good, i just wanted to try NISS.

The scramble: R B2 L F R D F' L2 U B U2 R U2 D2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 D2 R'

I made a 2x2x2 block in the normal scramble (u b2 l' b' u f2 b' l b2) , and then i switched to the inverse scramble

I then did the rest in the inverse scramble: 
f' u2 f r2 f u' r (2x2x3)

i: u2 f' u' f u' f u' f u2 r' f r (f2l - 1)

i: last pair: f u' f u f' u' f' u

i: oll: r u f u' f' r'

i: pll: x y (y-perm) u' y' x'

Now i dont know how to combine all of that into an actual solution.

All help is greatly appreciated


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## biscuit (Dec 30, 2016)

Shawn Boucke has a great video on it here 

For future referance, FMC questions belong on the FMC thread


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## Bubtore (Dec 31, 2016)

Swiss NR from Opal Open :
S // R' U' F R2 D R2 U B2 D L2 R2 F L' U' B2 D2 L' B' U2 R F2 D2 R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R D2 F2 R' U2 B L D2 B2 U L F' R2 L2 D' B2 U' R2 D' R2 F' U R

B' L' // 122
(U' R2 B') // 222 + EO
L' F2 U2 R2 U R2 U R2 F2 L D2 R F2 // L3C

Skel // B' L2 F2 U2 R2 U R2 U R2 F2 L D2 * R F2 B R2 U - 17
* D' F' U' F D F' U F


Solution // B' L2 F2 U2 R2 U R2 U R2 F2 L D F' U' F D F' U F R F2 B R2 U - 24 Moves

Another good solve :

S // R' U' F D2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' F2 U2 L' R2 U' B' D2 L' B' R D' B' L' F U' R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R U F' L B D R' B L D2 B U R2 L U2 F2 R B2 U2 B2 U2 D2 F' U R

U' R2 D2 F R' // 222 + many pairs
(L2 D F2 L F') // PF2L
(L U' F' D F D R' D2 L D' L' D2 R U) // Keyhole and pair commutator


Solution // U' R2 D2 F R' U' R' D2 L D L' D2 R D' F' D' F U L' F L' F2 D' L2 - 24 Moves

edit : I forgot about this one too (first one of Polimi Open)

S // R' U' F D' R2 B2 U B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 L' F' U' R' B' R2 D F' R B2 R' U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



U L2 U2 * // 222
B D' F L F' L B' L // Many blocks
U B2 U' B' U B' U' B' D // L3E

* U2 L2 B' L2 U2 R2 F' R2


Solution // U B' L2 U2 R2 F' R2 B D' F L F' L B' L U B2 U' B' U B' U' B' D - 24 Moves


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## xyzzy (Dec 31, 2016)

Kristian OE said:


> The scramble: R B2 L F R D F' L2 U B U2 R U2 D2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 D2 R'
> 
> I made a 2x2x2 block in the normal scramble (u b2 l' b' u f2 b' l b2) , and then i switched to the inverse scramble
> 
> ...



First of all, use capital letters for the moves. Partly because that's standard notation (you'll get a DNF if you write all your moves in lowercase at an official competition), and partly because it makes it easier to copy/paste into solvers, simulators and such. Also, your solution doesn't work for the third part; it should be U2 F' U' F U' F U2 R' F R instead. With that fixed, your solution can be written like this:

U B2 L' B' U F2 B' L B2 // 2x2x2
(F' U2 F R2 F U' R) // 2x2x3
(U2 F' U' F U' F U2 R' F R) // F2L-1
(F U' F U F' U' F' U) // F2L
(R U F U' F' R') // OLL
(x y R2 U' R2 U' R2 U F U F' R2 F U' F' U' y' x') // PLL

Parenthesised moves are those done on inverse, by convention. To convert this to a standard solution, take all the parenthesised moves, reverse them, and then append the reversed moves to the moves done on normal, like this:

U B2 L' B' U F2 B' L B2 _x y U F U F' R2 F U' F' U' R2 U R2 U R2 y' x' R F U F' U' R' U' F U F U' F' U F' R' F' R U2 F' U F' U F U2 R' U F' R2 F' U2 F_

This also works if you switch between normal and inverse multiple times, but you have to take care to reverse the parenthesised moves together. (Not sure if this is clear, but you can probably figure this out when it happens.)


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## bubbagrub (Dec 31, 2016)

xyzzy said:


> This also works if you switch between normal and inverse multiple times, but you have to take care to reverse the parenthesised moves together. (Not sure if this is clear, but you can probably figure this out when it happens.)



Here's how I always think about it: A normal solve looks like this:

S A 

(i.e., you do scramble S and then moves A solve it). If you want to do NISS, you start with a partial solution (A) and add some moves which finish the solve (B):

S A B

Now you invert it all:

B' A' S'

And by the magic of the cube (which you either have to take on trust, or work out for yourself why it works), you can shift the B' moves to the end, which gives you this:

A' S' B'

Now you can repeat that process for the next switch (back to normal), by adding moves C:

A' S' B' C' --invert--> C B S A --shift--> B S A C

And then you can do it again, and add moves D:

B S A C D --invert--> D' C' A' S' B' --shift--> C' A' S' B' D'

And so on. So if you've got this far, and you want to recreate the entire solution you do this:

C' A' S' B' D' --> D B S A C --> B S A C D --> S A C D B 

which tells you the order of your final solution, which is A C D B. So in general, it means you do all of your normal sections in order, concatenated together (in the order you did them), followed by the inverse of all the inverse sections, concatenated together. So you might end up with A C E G I J H F D B, for example.

I hope this helps, and isn't just overly complicating things!


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## Jaysammey777 (Jan 1, 2017)

Can someone help me see if this insertion is optimal or not (i.e. can 1 more move be saved in insertions??)

From Weekly Comp:


Spoiler



S: R2 B2 U' L2 R2 U L2 R2 U2 B' D R' F2 D R' U' B' L' R' U 

2x2x2: R U' R' F L2 U' (6/6) 
2x2x3: D' R D F D' (5/11) 
F2L-1: R * F' D' F' D (5/11) 
To L3C: R2 F R2 F' R2 F R2 F' R (9/25) 

Insert at *: D B' D' F' D B D' F (8/33) 

Insert : D' F F' D' = D2 (-3)


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## Bubtore (Jan 1, 2017)

He can


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## Bubtore (Jan 2, 2017)

Sydney Championship 2016

S // R' U' F D U2 B2 D F2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 U' B' D2 L F' U' R' B' U' L2 D' R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R D L2 U B R U F L' D2 B U F2 B2 R2 U' R2 F2 D' B2 U2 D' F' U R

(U2 F2 B2 L2 B R2) // 223
R U2 R' // PF2L-1
(F U F U' F2 U) // F2L
(F2 R' F2 R F R' F R) // ZBLL


Solution // R U2 R2 F' R F' R' F2 R F2 U' F2 U F' U' F' R2 B' L2 B2 F2 U2 - 22 Moves

S // R' U' F D2 R2 B F R2 B' L2 F U2 F' R2 U' L F D2 L' U L' U2 R' D2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(L2 R2 B2) // P122
L B L F D' + F L D' F' L F' // F2L-1 + EO
D' F' B D B' D' F // L3C

+ U B' U' F U B U' F'


Solution // L B L F D' U B' U' F U B U' L D' F' L F' D' F' B D B' D' F B2 R2 L2 - 27 Moves

S // R' U' F D2 R2 F' R2 B2 F R2 F2 R2 U2 F D' R2 D2 U R F U R' U F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(F + L' B2 R) // 123 + 122
(U' D' F D2 L U L' B U) // F2L-1 + EO
(R B R' B R B' R') // L3C

+ F R2 F' L' F R2 F' L


Solution // R B R' B' R B' R' U' B' L U' L' D2 F' D U R' B2 F R2 F' L F R2 F2 - 25 Moves

makes 24.66 mean


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## Jaysammey777 (Jan 2, 2017)

Bubtore said:


> He can


Thanks! The site linked from google doesn't work for me :/.Good to know I got optimal!


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## Jaysammey777 (Jan 2, 2017)

On top of the weekly comp(30 HTM) I decided to do an ao5. 6 hours of FMC... and then the next day did 6 more for the ao12...
30 28 30 30 26 30 30 29 20 30 27
Single: 20 PB (was 27)
mo3: 25.67 PB (was 38.33)
ao5: 28.33 PB (was in existent)
ao12: 29 PB (what's wrong with me?)

really working on insertions, ended up getting optimal on all but 1!

Individual Attempts:


Spoiler: Solve 1, 30 HTM



Scramble: R2 B2 U' L2 R2 U L2 R2 U2 B' D R' F2 D R' U' B' L' R' U
Solution: R U' R' F L2 U' D' R D F D' R D B' D' F' D B D2 F' D R2 F R2 F' R2 F R2 F' R 30 HTM (60m)

2x2x2: R U' R' F L2 U' (6/6)
2x2x3: D' R D F D' (5/11)
F2L-1: R * F' D' F' D (5/11)
To L3C: R2 F R2 F' R2 F R2 F' R (9/25)

Insert at *: D B' D' F' D B D' F (8/33)

Insert : D' F F' D' = D2 (-3)





Spoiler: Solve 2, 30 HTM



Scramble: L2 U' D2 R L F' L' U F R2 U F2 L2 F2 R2 U D F2 D L2
Soultion: L F R' U' F' D F' U2 F' D' F U2 F' L F2 R' F2 U' L2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' U R B2 U B2 L' 30 HTM (57m)

Premove: L'
EO-Line: L F R' U' F' (5/5)
1x2x3: D F2 * D' (3/8)
2x2x3: L F2 R' F2 (4/12)
F2L-1: U' L2 U (3/15) (Found Premove)
AB3C: U B2 U2 B2 R' U R B2 U B2 (10/25)
Undo Premove L' (1/26)
Insert at *: F U2 F' D' F U2 F' D (8/34) (optimal)
Cancellations: F2 F = F', D D' = , U U = U2 (-4/30)





Spoiler: Solve 3, 28 HTM



Scramble: U2 B2 D' L2 D' F2 U' L2 B2 L2 U2 F D B' U R2 D' B L B
Solution: D B U' B' D' B U B2 L D F B U' B' U D2 L2 B U2 F' U' B' U R2 F2 R2 U2 D2 28 HTM (60m, found in first 24m)

Premove: D2
EO: * B' L (2/2)
1x2x2: D F (2/4) (Found Premove)
2x2x3: B U' B' U D2 L2 (6/10)
AB3C: B U2 F' U' B' U R2 F2 R2 U2 (10/20)
Undo Premove: D2 (1/21)
Insert at *: D B U' B' D' B U B' (8/29) (optimal, spent forever looking for better when not possible )
Cancellations: B' B' = B2 (-1/28)





Spoiler: Solve 4, 30 HTM



Scramble: F2 D2 B R2 F U2 B D2 U2 L2 B2 D B2 D' R B2 R D' B' R' U2
Solution: D' L2 F2 L B2 F2 D2 F' L D' F2 B2 R D R' D' B2 R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' L' D L' D L2 D 30 HTM (54m)

2x2x2: D' L2 F2 L B2 (5/5)
EO: F2 D2 F' (3/8)
2x2x3: L D' F2 (3/11)
Switch:
1x2x2 + Pair: D' L2 D' (3/14)
Switch:
AB3C: B2 R D R' D' B2 * D2 L' D L' (10/24)
Insert at *: R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 (8/32) (optimal)
Cancellations: D2 D2 = (-2/30)





Spoiler: Solve 5, 30 HTM



Scramble: L2 D2 B' U2 L2 D2 R2 B L2 B2 F2 L' F U' B' D B' R D L2 U'
Solution: B' R' F' B' U B D' B' U' B F2 U' F2 U' F' U2 F2 R D R' B' U B U' R D' R' U' B' F2 30 HTM (60m)

EO-line: B' R' F' * D' (4/4)
Psuedo 1x2x3: F2 U' F2 U' F' U2 F2 (7/11)
Switch:
2x2x3: F2 (1/12)
F2L-1: B U (2/14)
AB3C: R D R' U B' U' B R D' R' (10/24)
Insert at *: B' U B D' B' U' B D (8/32) (optimal)
Cancellations: D D' = (-2/30)

Spent forever On B' R B D B' F2 U' F D' U' but nothing good.





Spoiler: Solve 6, 26 HTM PB



Scramble:F' L2 U2 D F' L2 U' B2 L D F2 R F2 L F2 R U2 L' F2 D2 B2
Solution: B D2 L2 B' F' D2 F' R F' L2 F R' F' L2 D F D F' D F' L2 D' F2 L' D F2 26 HTM (36m, 12m skeleton)

2x2x2: B D2 L2 B' (4/4)
Switch:
2x2x3 + EO: F2 D' L F2 D L2 (6/10)
AB3C: F D' F D' F' D' F2 D2 F (9/19)
Skeleton: B D2 L2 B' F' D2 F2 * D F D F' D F' L2 D' F2 L' D F2
Insert at *: F R F' L2 F R' F' L2 (8/27)
Cancellations: F2 F = F' (-1/26)





Spoiler: Solve 7, 30 HTM



Scramble: L2 B2 D R2 U' L2 U B2 L2 D B2 F' D' R F' U B2 F' D2 B' R2
Solution: B L F' U F' U2 B2 U2 F' B' D2 B U B' D2 B F2 U F R2 U R2 F B' R2 B U R2 U' R2 30 HTM (40m, 20m skeleton)

Premove: F
EO + 1E: B L (2/2)
2x2x2: F' U F' U2 B2 (5/7)
2x2x3: U2 F' * U F' (4/11) (Premove Found)
F2L-1: F' U F R2 U R2 (6/17)
AB3C: F B R2 B U R2 U' R2 F' (9/26)
Undo Premove: F (1/27)
Inseret at *: B' D2 B U B' D2 B U' (8/35) (optimal)
Cancellations: U' U =, F' F' = F2, F' F =, (-5/30)





Spoiler: Solve 8, 30 HTM



Scramble: F2 D B2 L2 D' R2 U F2 D R2 U F L B' L U L' F2 L' R2 B
Solution: U F2 U' B' D' R2 L' B R B' L B R' B2 D F U' L' U L2 F L' U2 F U R' U B U' B' 30 HTM (60m)

1x2x2: U F2 U' (3/3)
2x2x3: B' D' R2 * B' D F' (6/9)
Switch:
F2L-1: B U B' U' R (5/14)
Switch:
AB3C: F2 U' L' U L2 F L' U2 F U (10/24)
Insert at *: L' B R B' L B R' B' (8/32)
Cancellations: F' F2 = F, B' B' = B2 (-2/30)





Spoiler: Solve 9, 29 HTM



Scramble: B L2 F' L2 B R2 D2 B' F2 D2 L2 R B D' U F2 U2 B' U' R F2
Solution: L B' R B L' B' R' F2 D' R' U2 L' D B' D F' U F R2 U' R2 U' R U' R' U R2 U2 R' 29 HTM (25m)

2x2x3: * F2 B' D' R' U2 L' D B'D (9/9)
1x2x2 + EO: F' U F (3/12)
AB3C: R2 U' R2 U' R U' R' U R2 U2 R' (11/23)
Insert at *: L B' R B L' B' R' B (8/31)
Cancellations: B F2 B' = F2 (-2/29)





Spoiler: Solve 10, 20 HTM PB



Scramble: B2 L F2 L B2 L2 U2 B2 L' U2 F2 R2 U' B F U R B L' U' R' U2
Solution: R2 D' F D' R' F' U2 B' U' B2 D R2 D2 R2 F D F' R' D R 20 HTM (50m)

2x2x3: R2 D' F D' R' F' U2 B' U' B2 (10/10)
F2L-1: D R2 D2 R2 (4/14)
Finish: F D F' R' D R (6/20)





Spoiler: Solve 11, 30 HTM



Scramble: R2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D R2 U' L2 D' F2 L F' D2 F2 U B' R2 U2 R2
Solution: R2 F' U D L' F2 U' F2 D2 L2 B D B' L' F R' F' R B2 R' F R B2 L' F' L2 D2 B' D B' 30 HTM (43m)

1x2x2: R2 F' U (3/3)
2x2x3: D L' F2 U' F2 D2 L2 (7/10)
1x2x2: B D B' (3/13)
AB3C: L' F * L' F' L2 D2 B' D B' (9/22)
Insert at *: R' F' R B2 R' F R B2 (8/30)
No cancellations, stupid. 





Spoiler: Solve 12, 27 HTM



12: R2 B R2 B2 D2 B' L2 U2 L2 U2 F' D F2 U2 F' L' B' F' R B2
Solution: L2 F' L B' L' F2 L B L2 D L' F L2 D2 L' F2 D2 R F2 R' D2 F2 B R U R2 D2 27 HTM (60m)

On Inverse:
2x2x2: D2 R2 U' R' B' (5/5)
Switch:
2x2x3: L2 F * L' (3/8)
F2L-1: D L' D2 R F2 R' D2 F2 (6/14)
Switch:
AB3C: F2 D2 R F2 R' D2 F2 (7/21)
Insert at *: F2 L B' L' F2 L B L' (8/29) (optimal)
Cancellations: F F2 = F', L' L' = L2 (-2/27)
[/Spoiler


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## Isaac Lai (Jan 2, 2017)

Weekly Comp


Spoiler



R U' R' F L2 U' //2x2x2
D' R D F D' //2x2x3
R F' D' F' D //F2L-1
R2 F R2 F' R2 F R2 F' R //AB3C
U F U' B U F' U' B' //ZBLL/commutator/fail insertion
33 moves

This is the first attempt where I actually tried to use an insertion, and I wasn't really sure how to go about doing it. Therefore, I missed the optimal insertions (which would have cancelled 3 moves). I did manage find a few insertions in the middle of the skeleton though, but they didn't cancel any moves. Pretty disappointing, because after finding a 24 move skeleton I was sure it would be a PB.

EDIT: Lol exactly the same as Jaysammey's skeleton


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## G2013 (Jan 2, 2017)

Skeleton to 7 unsolved pieces in 15 moves, couldn't find anything good so I did insertions, 9 cancellations and optimal were 10 


Spoiler



Scramble: B' F2 R U' B2 D' F' L2 B' D2 L' F2 R D' L2 U2 L R' U B'
Inverse: B U' R L' U2 L2 D R' F2 L D2 B L2 F D B2 U R' F2 B

F R2 //2x2x1
D F' //2x2x1 and pair
(L2 U' F U F U2 L2) //2x2x3
L B L' //Pair
(B) //To L3E + L4C

Skeleton:
F R2 D F' L B L' B' L2 U2 F' U' F' U L2 (15)

Edges insertion:
F R2 D F' L B L' B' L2 U2 F' U' F' (F' R2 F M F' R2 F M') U L2 = 15+10-1 = 24
Skeleton: F R2 D F' L B L' B' L2 U2 F' U' F2 R2 F R L' U' R2 U L R' U L2 (24)

Corner insertion no. 1:
F R2 D F' L B L' (L' F L B' L' F' L B) B' L2 U2 F' U' F2 R2 F R L' U' R2 U L R' U L2 24+8-4=28->this
Skeleton: F R2 D F' L B L2 F L B' L' F' L' U2 F' U' F2 R2 F R L' U' R2 U L R' U L2 (28)

Corner insertion no. 2:
F R2 D F' L B L2 F L B' L' F' (D' L' U2 L D L' U2 L) L' U2 F' U' F2 R2 F R L' U' R2 U L R' U L2 28+8-4=32->this

Final solve: F R2 D F' L B L2 F L B' L' F' D' L' U2 L D L' F' U' F2 R2 F R L' U' R2 U L R' U L2 (32)



Could someone find a new continuation without the use of insertions so I can learn? Thanks!


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## guysensei1 (Jan 6, 2017)

(Question)
Say I got this scramble: R' U' F L2 U' F U D F' R B' U2 B2 D R L2 D2 F2 U R2 U' L2 F2 R' U' F
Right away I see F' U R F2//2x2x2

But that is undoing the first 4 moves of the scramble, am I disallowed from using this start, even with adequate explanations? I found this: "Guideline E2e++) Example of solutions that should result in a disqualification of the attempt (DNF): solutions beginning with the same 4 or more moves as the inverse scramble sequence." But that seems rather harsh...? It's a perfectly reasonable explanation to undo the first 4 moves in this case...

What is the exact threshold for 'too similar' anyway? It's not clearly written in the regulations or guidelines.

By the way it was a fun exercise with NISS and cubeexplorer to generate that scramble for discussion


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## AlphaSheep (Jan 6, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> (Question)
> Say I got this scramble: R' U' F L2 U' F U D F' R B' U2 B2 D R L2 D2 F2 U R2 U' L2 F2 R' U' F
> Right away I see F' U R F2//2x2x2
> 
> ...


Definitely an interesting and important question.

I think the whole debate on what's defines "too similar" was what started the debate which led to the scramble change in the first place. Linus's DNFed attempt had 11 moves in common with the inverse scramble, which is quite extreme, but he had a perfectly reasonable explanation for each of those steps. 

Now with the new scrambles, since the last 3 moves are always the same it doesn't help to use them to derive a solution. That's what lets the regulations set a "fair" threshold. 3 moves in common is OK, 4 moves is a DNF. Having a reasonable explanation is irrelevant since for some scrambles, it's theoretically possible to give a reasonable explanation for the entire inverse scramble. What would happen in a case like that? 

This case is difficult though. The main choice for the extra moves was so that the scramble couldn't be used to do work out an easy EO which is something only advanced FMC solvers would be likely to try. Its much harder to avoid lucky blocks, and I'm not sure if any good way to avoid it. In this case those 4 moves would be obvious to almost anyone. Even someone just doing CFOP may see them as an easy Xcross. A person like that quite possibly wouldn't think that those 4 moves wouldn't be allowed. I'd feel horrible DNFing an otherwise valid 50+ move CFOP solution. It's what the guidelines say though, so there's not much room for flexibility.

Is just my opinion based on the discussions that took place when the scrambles changed. I'd really like to know what more experienced delegates or WRC members think.


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## Laura O (Jan 6, 2017)

This guideline uses the word "should", which means...
"that there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a particular item, but the full implications must be understood and carefully weighed before choosing a different course."

So in the rather unlikely case that the first 4 moves of the inverse scramble generate an obvious block (or something similar) this would not necessarily be a DNF.


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## guysensei1 (Jan 6, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> In this case those 4 moves would be obvious to almost anyone.


What if undoing the 4 moves of the scramble gives some more obscure start like solving all corners or something else? I suppose this would be up to the delegate at the competition, but it is possible that the delegate may not consider them 'obvious' when others do.


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## AlphaSheep (Jan 6, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> What if undoing the 4 moves of the scramble gives some more obscure start like solving all corners or something else? I suppose this would be up to the delegate at the competition, but it is possible that the delegate may not consider them 'obvious' when others do.


Yeah, it's a problem with no easy solution. Some delegates have a really good understanding of FMC, but others don't know much about FMC techniques at all.


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## Laura O (Jan 6, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> What if undoing the 4 moves of the scramble gives some more obscure start like solving all corners or something else? I suppose this would be up to the delegate at the competition, but it is possible that the delegate may not consider them 'obvious' when others do.


Yes, the best solution for this would rather be to ask other degates and the WRC.


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## biscuit (Jan 6, 2017)

This may be better suited to the OQOA regulations thread, but we're already talking about FMC rules so... 

I can't remember reading anything about how fast FMC scrambles must be checked. Would it be permissible to just check for podium, then check the rest of the solutions after the fact?


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## guysensei1 (Jan 9, 2017)

Weekly fmc, 29


Spoiler



Scramble:
R2 B' R2 U2 D' B2 L' U2 D2 B R B' L' R D U2 R' D' B2 U2

F R L F D2//2x2x2
L U2//2x2x3
D' L D2 F D'//EO
L F2 L2 F'//F2L-1
Switch to inverse
L F2 L' F'//All but 3 pairs
L//setup
U F' L' F' L F U'//WV alg (actually a pair 3 cycle)
L'//undo setup

Final: F R L F D2 L U2 D' L D2 F D' L F2 L2 F' L U F' L' F L F U' L' F L F2 L' (29)


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## Rcuber123 (Jan 9, 2017)

Weekly FMC: 25


Spoiler



Scramble:
R2 B' R2 U2 D' B2 L' U2 D2 B R B' L' R D U2 R' D' B2 U2

L F L (3/3) 2x2x1
R F D' F' U2 F D' (7/10) 2x2x3
L F' U' F U (5/15) many blocks
F' L F (3/18) all but 3 blocks
F D' L' D L D F' D' (8-1=7/25) block commutater


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## TheCoolMinxer (Jan 9, 2017)

Cubelonia 33.33 mean

#1 R' U' F L2 D2 R2 B2 U' B2 U2 R2 U B2 D L' U' B U' F2 U2 F' D2 L B' R' U' F

D R' B' F2 D2 R2 //223
B' L' B L U' R B' R' B U2 B U2 B' //F2L finish
L2 D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U2 L' //ZBLL -> 28 moves

#2 R' U' F L' F2 L2 B2 F2 L' D2 L D2 R2 B2 F L2 U B' R' F' L2 U' B R' U' F

(U' F U R D' R2) //222
(U L' B' U' L' U' L2 U2 L') //F2L-2
(B' L B' L' R B' R' B' L' D L2 B L' B' D L2 D R D' L2 D R' D B2) //F2L cancelled in OLL cancelled into A perm

Solution: B2 D' R D' L2 D R' D' L2 D' B L B' L2 D' L B R B R' L B L' B L U2 L2 U L U B L U' R2 D R' U' F' U -> 39 moves

#3 R' U' F R2 D2 F' U2 L2 B2 D2 U2 L2 B' R2 D' R D' F' D2 B2 D2 L' D R' U' F

(U' R L2 U' F D') //cross
(U' F U' F' U F' U' F R' U R) //F2L-1
(U2 L U' L2 B L B D' F R2 F' D B U2 B U') //F2L finish cancelled into ZBLL

Solution: U B' U2 B' D' F R2 F' D B' L' B' L2 U L' U2 R' U' R F' U F U' F U F' U D F' U L2 R' U -> 33 moves

28, 39, 33 -> 33,33 mean! So happy with this, I'll never have to practise FMC again!


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## Bubtore (Jan 9, 2017)

Welcome to Germany where you do a 26.66 mean and you're not on podium ... (Swiss NR mean btw.)

Scramble // R' U' F L2 D2 R2 B2 U' B2 U2 R2 U B2 D L' U' B U' F2 U2 F' D2 L B' R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R B L' D2 F U2 F2 U B' U L D' B2 U' R2 U2 B2 U B2 R2 D2 L2 F' U R

D R' B' L F2 D2 R2 // 223
(U R' U2 R B U2) // L4C

Skel // D R' B' L F2 D2 * R2 U2 B' R' U2 R U' - 13
* D' L D + R' D' L' D R
+ D2 R U R' D2 R U' R'

My thoughts on this : I've spent to much time on that L4C, thus I missed to look for other good skeletons.


Solution // D R' B' L F2 D L D' R U R' D2 R U' R2 D' L' D R' U2 B' R' U2 R U' - 25 Moves

Scramble // R' U' F L' F2 L2 B2 F2 L' D2 L D2 R2 B2 F L2 U B' R' F' L2 U' B R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R B' U L2 F R B U' L2 F' B2 R2 D2 L' D2 L F2 B2 L2 F2 L F' U R

(U' F U) // 122
(R D' R2) // 222
(F') B2 L U2 L2 U F' B' L' B * // 4E3C
L2 D2 L2 D2 L2 D2 // L3C

* B R' B' L' B R B' L

Very bad scramble, thus I'm happy I had the best result on this one. Only thing I could have done better : the 4E could have been inserted, resulting in a 5 moves insertion and 27 Moves in total.


Solution // B2 L U2 L2 U F' B' L' B2 R' B' L' B R B' L' D2 L2 D2 L2 D2 F R2 D R' U' F' U - 28 Moves

Scramble // R' U' F R2 D2 F' U2 L2 B2 D2 U2 L2 B' R2 D' R D' F' D2 B2 D2 L' D R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R D' L D2 B2 D2 F D R' D R2 B L2 U2 D2 B2 L2 U2 F D2 R2 F' U R

U' L D // 122
(U' L2 U F U' R2) // PF2L-1
(U' B L' B' L U R') // L4C

Skel // U' L + D R U' L' B L B' U R2 U * F' U' L2 U - 16
* U2 F' D2 F U2 F' D2 F
+ L' D L U' L' D' L U

Optimal is 26, I don't know why I missed since it's with the same first commutator as I did. Too bad, it would have been tied 3rd place with that ...


Solution // U' D L U' L' D' L U D R U' L' B L B' U R2 U' F' D2 F U2 F' D2 U' L2 U - 27 Moves


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## mycube (Jan 10, 2017)

Quite frustrating results for me last weekend at Cubelonia 2016:

1 R' U' F L2 D2 R2 B2 U' B2 U2 R2 U B2 D L' U' B U' F2 U2 F' D2 L B' R' U' F


Spoiler: 25 Moves



Same as Reto (Bubtore), so see his solution for the first scramble above my post  (fun fact: 4 people found the same solution). Maybe I have different insertions, but I can't remember.
I have nearly the same thoughts, hoped for way better insertions, so I spent a lot of time on this skeleton.



2 R' U' F L' F2 L2 B2 F2 L' D2 L D2 R2 B2 F L2 U B' R' F' L2 U' B R' U' F


Spoiler: DNF(28 Moves)



L' U R2 F B2 R2 B2 F' D R' - 223
D2 L' F L' F' - F2L-1
D' B D2 B' D2 L' D2 L D L' D' *L* D' - Finish

the marked L (next-to-last move) was a L' in my solution  I was in a hurry in the last minutes, corrected another mistake and did not notice this one.. Actually what's really bad about this that I already had a 29 on my sheet but crossed it out as I was sure that the 28 is correct.

looks also promising:
L' U' R2 D R'
L F D' L' D' L2 F D' L



3 R' U' F R2 D2 F' U2 L2 B2 D2 U2 L2 B' R2 D' R D' F' D2 B2 D2 L' D R' U' F


Spoiler: 23 Moves



linear LL-skip-solution:
R' F U R' - 122 + pairs
U' B U' B' L' B' U B' F - F2L-1
R U' B' R2 B R B' R' B U - Finish

Solution:
R' F U R' U' B U' B' L' B' U B' F R U' B' R2 B R B' R' B U - 23 Moves



After finding the 23 on the last scramble I was really frustrated, this would have been a 25.33 (or 25.66 with the 29) mean which would have been pb and first place at the competition. Well, again a reason why FMC sucks


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## AlphaSheep (Jan 10, 2017)

biscuit said:


> This may be better suited to the OQOA regulations thread, but we're already talking about FMC rules so...
> 
> I can't remember reading anything about how fast FMC scrambles must be checked. Would it be permissible to just check for podium, then check the rest of the solutions after the fact?


The regulations don't cover checking of results. It's really part of the result submission process that the delegate does. Results in general need to be checked before the delegate submits the results after the comp, but with FMC, ideally the competitor needs to be available to explain the moves, if necessary...

With the relatively high rate of DNFs that is possible in FMC, I think it's best to do at least a preliminary check before the results go on cubecomps.

What you could do is get as many trusted competitors as possible to help do a quick check of the solutions, with the delegate overseeing the process. It should only take 5 minutes, of course playing special attention to the podiums. Then after the comp while checking the scorecards from the other events, you do a more thorough check of all of the solutions.


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## biscuit (Jan 10, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> The regulations don't cover checking of results. It's really part of the result submission process that the delegate does. Results in general need to be checked before the delegate submits the results after the comp, but with FMC, ideally the competitor needs to be available to explain the moves, if necessary...
> 
> With the relatively high rate of DNFs that is possible in FMC, I think it's best to do at least a preliminary check before the results go on cubecomps.
> 
> What you could do is get as many trusted competitors as possible to help do a quick check of the solutions, with the delegate overseeing the process. It should only take 5 minutes, of course playing special attention to the podiums. Then after the comp while checking the scorecards from the other events, you do a more thorough check of all of the solutions.


Thanks! I ask because I'm planning to have one attempt at the very end (after awards and most of cleanup) and we'd be trying to get out pretty fast.


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## AlphaSheep (Jan 10, 2017)

biscuit said:


> Thanks! I ask because I'm planning to have one attempt at the very end (after awards and most of cleanup) and we'd be trying to get out pretty fast.


Is a great idea. Definitely do it. We did at one of our comps once, and even checked the last attempt outside in the parking afterwards because we had to leave the venue. I only entered the results on cubecomps when I got home a couple hours later. It's also great because everyone not competing left so it was really quiet and peaceful.


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## biscuit (Jan 10, 2017)

AlphaSheep said:


> Is a great idea. Definitely do it. We did at one of our comps once, and even checked the last attempt outside in the parking afterwards because we had to leave the venue. I only entered the results on cubecomps when I got home a couple hours later. It's also great because everyone not competing left so it was really quiet and peaceful.



Yeah that was the idea. If we're on schedule, we should end by 6:20, but it'll probably be closer to 6:30. I said we'd be out by 7:00, and since we will already have cleaned up stackmats and all that, I think it's doable. Know I need to practice a little bit...


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## wassekaran (Jan 15, 2017)

Solve this Scramble in FMC: U2 F2 U' F2 R' D R' U' L' U2 F'


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## Hssandwich (Jan 15, 2017)

wassekaran said:


> Solve this Scramble in FMC: U2 F2 U' F2 R' D R' U' L' U2 F'




F U2 L //roux block + 2x2x2
U // square
R D' R //reduce to domino
F2 U F2 U2 //finish


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## guysensei1 (Jan 15, 2017)

Weekly fmc, 28


Spoiler



Scramble: 
D2 U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L U2 R2 B U' F L R2 F2 D2 L2 F B L

Inverse,
F B' R B R' F2//1x2x3
R' L' U' R' F R//2x2x3+preserve pair
U B L B'//EO
L2 U L2 * U L'//AB3C
*= L F' R2 F L' F' R2 F only 1 move cancelled... I'm not sure if i missed a better insertion but probably not.


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## Rcuber123 (Jan 15, 2017)

Got a 22 on this week's weekly FMC.
I'll edit it into this post when ll be less lazy


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## Attila (Jan 15, 2017)

previous weekly FMC:

R2 B' R2 U2 D' B2 L' U2 D2 B R B' L' R D U2 R' D' B2 U2

My solution (DNF-ed in 1 hr limit):

L2 D R' U2 R' D2 F' R U2 D2 L' F2 L2 U2 B' U L R' F U' D' 21 moves

L2 D R' U2 R' orient corners and 5 edges,
(U D F' R L' U) more 1 edge + orient all edges,
D2 F'-R U2 D2 L'- F2 L2 U2 B' U2 domino solution with inserted -R U2 D2 L'-


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## Rcuber123 (Jan 15, 2017)

Attila said:


> previous weekly FMC:
> 
> R2 B' R2 U2 D' B2 L' U2 D2 B R B' L' R D U2 R' D' B2 U2
> 
> ...


Man u were so close to ruining my first win. By ruin I mean completely obliterate it


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## Attila (Jan 15, 2017)

Rcuber123 said:


> Man u were so close to ruining my first win. By ruin I mean completely obliterate it


I DNF-ed, so you won  congratulations


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## Rcuber123 (Jan 15, 2017)

Attila said:


> I DNF-ed, so you won  congratulations


Thx and good luck this week!


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## Rcuber123 (Jan 16, 2017)

Weekly FMC 22


Spoiler



really nice solve, PB

Scramble: D2 U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L U2 R2 B U' F L R2 F2 D2 L2 F B L

R F / 2x2x1 block (2/2)
F R U' R' / 2x2x1 block (4-1=3/5)
U2 / 2x2x2 block (1/6)
L' B L B' L2 B2 L2 B2 / F2L-1 (8/14)
F L2 F' / all but 3 corners

R F2 R U' R' U2 L' B L B' L2 B2 L2 # F B2 L2 F'

Insert at #: L B2 L' F L B2 L' F' 8-3=5

Final solution: R F2 R U' R' U2 L' B L B' L2 B2 L' B2 L' F L B2 L' B2 L2 F (22 HTM)


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## guysensei1 (Jan 16, 2017)

If you get a H perm at the end of a skeleton, it's better most of the time to just use the optimal H perm alg (R2 S2 R2 U' R2 S2 R2 or something similar) than to do 2 insertions right? Unless I'm underestimating the comms... idk


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## EMI (Jan 16, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> If you get a H perm at the end of a skeleton, it's better most of the time to just use the optimal H perm alg (R2 S2 R2 U' R2 S2 R2 or something similar) than to do 2 insertions right? Unless I'm underestimating the comms... idk



I'd try to insert R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 or M2 U2 M2 U2  (Maybe with some setup moves)
I haven't thought about it too much, but doing 2 insertions seems not worth it.


----------



## guysensei1 (Jan 16, 2017)

EMI said:


> I haven't thought about it too much, but doing 2 insertions seems not worth it.


If you treat it as AB4C then you have to cancel more than 6 moves (or 5 depending on AUF) otherwise it's better to just use the optimal alg.

But doing it your way is better though


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## Rcuber123 (Jan 16, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> If you treat it as AB4C then you have to cancel more than 6 moves (or 5 depending on AUF) otherwise it's better to just use the optimal alg.
> 
> But doing it your way is better though


Yeah I've inserted those stuff twice before. Pretty useful


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## EMI (Jan 16, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> If you treat it as AB4C then you have to cancel more than 6 moves (or 5 depending on AUF)



I guess most of the time you would cancel into the R2 of the H-perm as well, so it's even better.
Also it seems unlikely that you would find 6-move insertions for both 3-cycles.


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## Cale S (Jan 16, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> If you get a H perm at the end of a skeleton, it's better most of the time to just use the optimal H perm alg (R2 S2 R2 U' R2 S2 R2 or something similar) than to do 2 insertions right? Unless I'm underestimating the comms... idk



a few ways to do it

R2 S2 R2 U' R2 S2 R2 U 
R L U2 R' L' F' B' U2 B F 
insert R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2
insert M2 U2 M2 U2
2 edge comms
insert a U2 and then L4C insertions

with the first two you can almost always cancel a few moves


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## porkynator (Jan 17, 2017)

Weekly FMC (ongoing)
Scramble: D2 U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L U2 R2 B U' F L R2 F2 D2 L2 F B L


Spoiler: Solution



R' F2 R U' R' F' R2 F U2 L' R' B L B' R L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 (20 HTM)

R' F2 R //2x2x1 (3/3)
U' R' F' R2 //3x2x1 (4/7)
F U2 //F2L -3 pieces (2/9)
L' R' B L B' R //Solve F2L corner and save the 2 pairs (6/15)
L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 //Finish (5/20)

I have found this in just 10 minutes!


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## biscuit (Jan 17, 2017)

porkynator said:


> Weekly FMC (ongoing)
> Scramble: D2 U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L U2 R2 B U' F L R2 F2 D2 L2 F B L
> 
> 
> ...



That's crazy!


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## Cale S (Jan 17, 2017)

porkynator said:


> Weekly FMC (ongoing)
> Scramble: D2 U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L U2 R2 B U' F L R2 F2 D2 L2 F B L
> 
> 
> ...



A nice linear FMC single ending with R2 U2 R2 U2 R2, just like the 19 WR



except this is legit


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## biscuit (Jan 17, 2017)

Wow. FMC is so frustrating. I'm trying. I really am. I feel like there has to be a good block you could do with this scramble, but the best 2x2 I can find is 7 moves. AHHH! 

B R F L' U2 R' D2 F' D2 F2 R2 D' B2 R2 U2 L2 D' L2 B2 F'

for the record, my 2x2 is U D L' B D' B' U

I feel like I'm close to understanding how to do FMC right, but I'm not there yet. And it's frustrating.


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## guusrs (Jan 17, 2017)

porkynator said:


> Weekly FMC (ongoing)
> Scramble: D2 U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L U2 R2 B U' F L R2 F2 D2 L2 F B L
> 
> 
> ...



Well done, exciting enough I found another 20-move solution for that same scramble (same competitio)n. You can check next sunday....


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## Attila (Jan 17, 2017)

porkynator said:


> Weekly FMC (ongoing)
> Scramble: D2 U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L U2 R2 B U' F L R2 F2 D2 L2 F B L
> 
> 
> ...



Would 19 , with R-R2 cancellation 

R' F2 R //2x2x1 (3/3)
U' R' F' R2 //3x2x1 (4/7)
F U2 //F2L -3 pieces (2/9)
L' R' B L B' R //Solve F2L corner and save the 2 pairs (6/15)
R2 F2 L2 F2 R2


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## CyanSandwich (Jan 17, 2017)

biscuit said:


> Wow. FMC is so frustrating. I'm trying. I really am. I feel like there has to be a good block you could do with this scramble, but the best 2x2 I can find is 7 moves. AHHH!
> 
> B R F L' U2 R' D2 F' D2 F2 R2 D' B2 R2 U2 L2 D' L2 B2 F'
> 
> ...


Moves in brackets on inverse. I could only find a 7 mover on normal, sorry if you don't understand NISS 

(R2 D2 L U' F L) - 6 moves

(F2 L' B' U') U - 5 moves


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## Cale S (Jan 17, 2017)

biscuit said:


> Wow. FMC is so frustrating. I'm trying. I really am. I feel like there has to be a good block you could do with this scramble, but the best 2x2 I can find is 7 moves. AHHH!
> 
> B R F L' U2 R' D2 F' D2 F2 R2 D' B2 R2 U2 L2 D' L2 B2 F'
> 
> ...



My first official FMC attempt had a 7 move 2x2x2 and ended up being a 25 

Something to help when blockbuilding isn't obvious: 
Try every possible move (U, U2, U', L, L2...) and see what pairs can be made
Sometimes you get 2 move squares with this that are hard to see otherwise 

You could also start with EO, because it is very flexible and you can get several different starts to find the best blockbuilding continuation 

And if you don't already know how to do NISS or pseudo blocks, they make it so that almost any blocks can be added on to each other, and give you different continuations


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## biscuit (Jan 17, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> Moves in brackets on inverse. I could only find a 7 mover on normal, sorry if you don't understand NISS
> 
> (R2 D2 L U' F L) - 6 moves
> 
> F2 L' B' U' (U) - 5 moves


so I do stuff on normal, then inverse of stuff on inverse right? I sorta get NISS, but only sorta.


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## CyanSandwich (Jan 18, 2017)

biscuit said:


> so I do stuff on normal, then inverse of stuff on inverse right? I sorta get NISS, but only sorta.


Sorry the 2nd one was meant to be brackets on the first 4 moves and not the last.

(F2 L' B' U') U

So if you execute the inverse scramble on a solved cube, you'll see (F2 L' B' U') builds a pseudo-2x2x2.
Now on a solved cube, execute the inverse of those moves, which would be U B L F2. Now apply the normal scramble and you'll find a 1 move 2x2x2.


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## porkynator (Jan 18, 2017)

Attila said:


> Would 19 , with R-R2 cancellation
> 
> R' F2 R //2x2x1 (3/3)
> U' R' F' R2 //3x2x1 (4/7)
> ...



Nice, I didn't remember that way of solving edges.


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## shadowslice e (Jan 19, 2017)

Cale S said:


> A nice linear FMC single ending with R2 U2 R2 U2 R2, just like the 19 WR
> 
> 
> 
> except this is legit


Shots fired


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## xyzzy (Jan 21, 2017)

Weekly FMC



Spoiler



Scramble: D2 U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L U2 R2 B U' F L R2 F2 D2 L2 F B L

U2 L' D // squares (3/3)
inv: L U R // pseudo223 (3/6)
R' D' R' // adjust + edge control + pair (3/9)
B2 D' B D2 // EO + F2L-1 (4/13)
inv: L // hide pair (1/14)
B' L // F2L (2/16)
L B2 L' B' L B' L' B // edges; to L3C (8−1/23)

Skeleton: U2 L' # D R' D' R' B2 D' B D2 B' L2 B2 L' B' L B' L' B L' R' U' L'
# = [L U2 L', D] (8−6/25)


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## guysensei1 (Jan 23, 2017)

weekly


Spoiler



S: R B2 L D B' U' R F L D' B' F2 U2 B2 F D2 B R2 B F'

Inverse
F' U B L' F' D//2x2x2
U R2 B2//XXcross
normal
F R' F' R *U*//block
*U* F' U' *F*//F2L-1
*F'* L U L' F L U' *L'*//pairs 3-cycle
*L2* F R' F' R L2//ayylmao

Final: F R' F' R U2 F' U' L U L' F L U' L F R' F' R L2 B2 R2 U' D' F L B' U' F (28)

after F2L-1 you can also finish with 
U B' U' B U2 B' U' B//F2L
B' R' U' R U B U//LL 
but it doesnt cancel anything


----------



## penguinz7 (Jan 26, 2017)

R2 B2 L2 U2 R2 D2 R2 U2 F D2 F D B' U2 R F2 R' D R' F L'

Skeleton:
F #U' L B' //EO
U' F2 *L' R D U' L' //L7C

@# insert
R D2 +R' U' R D2 R' U Cancels 2

@* insert
F L' B L F' L' B' L Cancels 3

@+ insert
D' L2 D R' D' L2 D R Cancels 3

Final:
F R D L2 D
R' D' L2 D U'
R D2 R' L B'
U' F' L' B L
F' L' B' R D
U' L'

27

Somehow those comms are optimal.


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## Ranzha (Jan 27, 2017)

Current Dadams Weekly (161):


Spoiler: 25



R B2 L D B' U' R F L D' B' F2 U2 B2 F D2 B R2 B F'

(U B L') B' D' // 222
(U2 R' F' R' U2) // 223 + pairs
(F' R2 U' R' U) // 5C (15)

Skel: B' D' U' R U R2 F (1) U2 R F R U2 L B' U' (2) // 15 to 5C
(1): [R D R', U2] // 8-4
(2): [U F' U', B] // 8-2

Final: B' D' U' R U R2 F R D R' U2 R D' F R U2 L B' F' U' B U F U' B' (25)

Found in a half-hour


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## porkynator (Jan 27, 2017)

Ranzha said:


> Current Dadams Weekly (161):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 25
> ...


Nice! That scramble looked hard to me, I was happy I could find a 26.


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## Jaysammey777 (Jan 28, 2017)

Scramble: L B2 D2 F2 U2 F' L2 F' D2 F' U R' U' R' D B F U'
F2L-1: D L2 U L2 D2 B2 D' B' (8/8)

any good continuations? I got 29 HTM :/


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## Cale S (Jan 28, 2017)

Jaysammey777 said:


> Scramble: L B2 D2 F2 U2 F' L2 F' D2 F' U R' U' R' D B F U'
> F2L-1: D L2 U L2 D2 B2 D' B' (8/8)



(L D' L B' L B L)
R2 U L' F2 L U' R' D2 R' D'

D L2 U L2 D2 B2 D' B' R2 U L' F2 L U' R' D2 R' D' L' B' L' B L' D L'
25 moves


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## Ranzha (Jan 28, 2017)

porkynator said:


> Nice! That scramble looked hard to me, I was happy I could find a 26.


Thanks! I was really lucky to find that; Walker, Mark, et al. said that the scramble was awful


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## Cale S (Jan 28, 2017)

cool block comm insertion 
from German weekly FMC


Spoiler



R' U' F U L2 R2 B2 U L2 D' L' R2 D R2 D2 U' B U2 B D F2 U' R' U' F

F R' F2 D F2 D' // 2x2x2
B L' U L' (B2 R' U2 R) // F2L + EO (2c3e)

F @ R' F2 D F2 D' B L' U L' R' ^ U2 R B2
@ = [B, L D' L'] //





^ = [L2, U R U']

Solution: F B L D' L' B' L D L' R' F2 D F2 D' B L' U L R' U R U' L2 U R' U R B2

28 Moves


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## GenTheThief (Jan 28, 2017)

This is for the Weekly Competition 2017-04, so don't look I guess if you wanted to try it. But you would probably come up with something ten moves better so it doesn't really matter.


Spoiler: 37



F2 D' F2 R2 B2 D' L2 U2 R2 B L U2 L D U2 R2 U B R' U'

x2 R' F' R' U' L' F' // EO + preserve pairs that magically appeared somehow
R2 F2 U D' R D2 // Double Extended Line (12/12)
L2 U R U2 L' U' L U2 L' U L U' // Finish F2L + Cancel into LL (12/24)
L2 U2 L U2 L F' L' U' L' U L F U' // ZBLL that I knew (13/37)


I don't do FMC, so sub-40 is pretty cool.
Also I just ZZ it and see how low I can get. BECAUSE I USE ZZ ANYWAY
Any tips for this solve style? More efficient blocks that pop out to you guys?


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## porkynator (Jan 28, 2017)

Sick stuff from the current german forum competition.


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F L2 U2 F L2 D2 B' F2 R' D2 F2 U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 U' R U R' U' F

Premove U
F //Square (1/2)
U' R2 L' //Pseudo 2x2x3 (3/5)
F' * D2 R' D2 B' //F2L-1 (5/10)
F' D F # //F2L (3/13)

Up to now the solution is pretty straightforward. But I have a bad LL case. I could go for a decent all but 3c3e in 16, but I try to see if I can insert something. At *, all LL pieces are in a "F2L-1-like" position. So I can try vaious things to shuffle them: LD'L'D, F'DFD', FL'F'L, L'FLF'. I look into all of them and I pick the first one:
* = L D' + L' D //Shuffle 'em (3/16)
and after this I ave a nice 3c3e skeleton. I can also go for all but 3 corners with:
# = R F D F' D' R' //All but 3 corners (6/22)
and then, by magic, I get a free insertion
+ = D' R' D L' D' R D L //Dark magic (0/22)

F U' R2 L' F' L D2 R' D L' D B' F' D F R F D F' D' R' U (22 HTM)


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## Bubtore (Jan 29, 2017)

Frankfurt Cube Days :

S // R' U' F D2 R D2 R D2 L2 U2 B2 D2 F2 L2 D L D2 B U' B2 D2 U R' U' F
I // F' U R U' D2 B2 U B' D2 L' D' L2 F2 D2 B2 U2 L2 D2 R' D2 R' D2 F' U R

(L' D') D // 222
(D' L2 D F L2 F) F' // 223 + EO
U' L2 U' // PF2L-1
L2 U' L U' // L5C

Skel // D F' U' * L2 U' L2 U' L U' + F' L2 F' D' L2 D2 L - 16 Moves

* F' R2 F L2 F' R2 F L2 
+ R' F' L2 F R F' L2 F

Solution // D F' U' F' R2 F L2 F' R2 F U' L2 U' L U' R' F' L2 F R F2 D' L2 D2 L - 25 Moves


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## CyanSandwich (Jan 30, 2017)

NRs from Mind Games (26 single, 29 mean). Previous NRs were 35 and 48 



Spoiler: 29



Started on insertions at about 15 minutes or something. My top priority was not DNFing. Couldn't find anything better afterwards.

scr: R' U' F D' R2 U' R2 U L2 R' F D2 L2 D' U' B F2 D B2 R U' R' U' F

R B' U' (U' B2) //222
F B L' F2 L B' //223
B D' B' D2 L' //F2L-1
B R D2 R' B' D2 //5C

sk: R B' U' F B L' F2 L D' B' D2 L' B ^ R D2 R' B' D2 B2 U (20)

^ B R * F' R' B' R F R'
* R B' R' F' R B R' F

sol: R B' U' F B L' F2 L D' B' D2 L' B2 R2 B' R' F' R B R2 B' R F D2 R' B' D2 B2 U (29)





Spoiler: 26



scr: R' U' F D' U2 B2 R2 B2 F2 U' L2 D' F U' L2 U B' F' U' F L R' F2 R' U' F

L B2 D F L' B2 //222
R D2 R2 //223
(L D2 L' F2 D) //F2L-1
(L' F L D F D') //3C

sk: L B2 D F L' ^ B2 R D2 R2 D F' D' L' F' L D' F2 L D2 L' (20)

^ L U L' D' L U' L' D

sol: L B2 D F U L' D' L U' L' D B2 R D2 R2 D F' D' L' F' L D' F2 L D2 L' (26)





Spoiler: 32



Couldn't find any good skeletons on this. I was just glad to get a sub-30 mean. 

scr: R' U' F D2 U2 F' L2 F2 L2 D2 B R' F2 U' L' B' D R2 B2 D2 R F2 R' U' F

B (R B' F L2 D) //222
(U2 F2 U R' U' R2) //223
(F' U F U L F2 L') U' //F2L
F' //3C3E

sk: B U' F' L F2 L' U' F' U' F R2 U R U' F2 * U2 D' L2 F' B R' (21)

* B U2 ^ B' U D' R U2 R' U' D
^ D2 B' U B D2 B' U' B

sol: B U' F' L F2 L' U' F' U' F R2 U R U' F2 B U2 D2 B' U B D2 B' D' R U2 R' U L2 F' B R' (32)


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## Cale S (Jan 30, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> Spoiler: 26
> 
> 
> 
> ...



L B2 D F L' B2 //222
R D2 R2 //223
(L D2 L' F2 D) // F2L - 1
*D F' D' F' // to 3-cycle of pairs
F U' L' U F' U' L U // block comm*

L B2 D F L' B2 R D2 R2 D F' D' U' L' U F' U' L U D' F2 L D2 L'

24 moves


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## CyanSandwich (Jan 30, 2017)

Cale S said:


> L B2 D F L' B2 //222
> R D2 R2 //223
> (L D2 L' F2 D) // F2L - 1
> *D F' D' F' // to 3-cycle of pairs
> ...


Ah that's good. I should start using block comms.


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## biscuit (Feb 3, 2017)

Can you use pseudo blocks with NISS? I'd bet I'm probably just not understanding how it works, but I can't get it to work. 

L B2 R B2 L2 U2 B2 F2 U2 R' D' R' B' U R' B' D2 F2 D F

(U' R F B2 R' U') // EO and 2x2
B' D B D' F2 // pseudo 3x3x2 (yes I know this breaks EO)

As I understand it, I should do the first line inverse, F2, scramble then second line. Right? It doesn't seem to work.


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## CyanSandwich (Feb 3, 2017)

biscuit said:


> Can you use pseudo blocks with NISS? I'd bet I'm probably just not understanding how it works, but I can't get it to work.
> 
> L B2 R B2 L2 U2 B2 F2 U2 R' D' R' B' U R' B' D2 F2 D F
> 
> ...


So the 2x2x3 solution would be this

(U' R F B2 R' U') // EO and 2x2
B' D B D' F2 (F2) // 2x2x3

If you want to have a 223 on normal, do the inverse of the whole bracketed sequence, scramble, whole non-bracketed.
As in F2 U R B2 F' R' U (scramble) B' D B D' F2


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## biscuit (Feb 3, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> So the 2x2x3 solution would be this
> 
> (U' R F B2 R' U') // EO and 2x2
> B' D B D' F2 (F2) // 2x2x3
> ...



Thanks Tom! If I were to do more on inverse, would I put the F2 after all of that? So then it'd be 

(U' R F B2 R' U') // EO and 2x2
B' D B D' F2 // 2x2x3
(rest of the solve on inverse with the F2 here)

and if I did some on inverse, then some more on normal it'd be 

(U' R F B2 R' U') // EO and 2x2
B' D B D' F2 // 2x2x3
(stuff)
stuff that finishes the solve (F2)

Right?


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## CyanSandwich (Feb 3, 2017)

biscuit said:


> Thanks Tom! If I were to do more on inverse, would I put the F2 after all of that? So then it'd be
> 
> (U' R F B2 R' U') // EO and 2x2
> B' D B D' F2 // 2x2x3
> ...


Not quite. When you make a pseudo-something, just leave the fixing-move where it is.

(U' R F B2 R' U') // EO and 2x2
B' D B D' F2 (F2)// 2x2x3
(stuff)
stuff that finishes the solve

Which would end up as B' D B D' F2 stuff that finishes the solve (inverse of stuff) (F2) (U R B2 F' R' U)


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## Isaac Lai (Feb 5, 2017)

This is for the current weekly forum comp. First ever (successful) attempt with insertions, though admittedly the skeleton was harder to find than the insertions on this solve. I also used Jay/Brest's method to find insertions in this solve.


Spoiler



Scramble: D2 F2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B F' U2 F L2 D B L D' F' R' F2 D2 F D'

L' U B' D // 2x2
B' R2 B2 // 2x2x2
L D L' F' L' F' B' L2 F' B*L2 F' D F // F2L-1
B' L B2 D' B' D L' // AB3C

Insert at *: F' R F L' F' R' F L

L' U B' D B' R2 B2 L D L' F' L' F' B' L2 F2 B R F L' F' R' F L' F' D F B' L B2 D' B' D L' (34)


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## ChrisCuber123 (Feb 5, 2017)

Solution for Weekly: (overall pb)


Spoiler



start on inverse
F' B D L // EO
switch
F U2 F' U2 // 2x2x2
switch
B' R' D2 F D F' R' // L5C
skeleton: F U2 F' U2 R F * D' F' D2 R B L' D' B' F ^
insert at *: B2 D' F' D B2 D' F D
insert at ^: F' L2 F R2 F' L2 F R2
final solution: F U2 F' U2 R F B2 D' F' D B2 D R B L' D' B' L2 F R2 F' L2 F R2 (24)


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## Ranzha (Feb 6, 2017)

RIP PBQ Berkeley

Here are the scrambles:
Round 1
1. R' U' F U B2 D' F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 L B2 L' D2 B' D2 U2 F' D' B L U' R' U' F
2. R' U' F L2 B2 U' B2 L2 B2 U2 R2 D2 U' R' D U2 B' D' B' F' R' F D R' U' F
3. R' U' F L' U2 B2 D2 R' B2 R U2 L2 R2 B R D' F2 U2 R B2 D R2 B' R' U' F
Round 2
1. R' U' F U2 B2 L2 B D2 B' R2 F2 L2 D2 R' B L2 D' R D F2 D R2 F2 R' U' F
2. R' U' F U L2 B2 U F2 U2 L2 B2 R2 F' L2 U' F2 D2 U B2 D2 L F2 U' R' U' F
3. R' U' F U2 L R2 U2 B2 D2 R' B2 R D2 U B' U2 F R F2 L U2 F U' R' U' F

Round 1 Attempt 1:


Spoiler: 27



PBQ Berkeley 1.1

(F U) // square
(D R' D2 R2 D2 B' R) // 2x-cross
B D2 B' // solve an edge
F' D F D2 // fix EO
L D' L' // Good 6C 

Skel: B D2 B' F' D (U2 F D2 F' U2 F D2 F') F D2 (F' L B' L' F L B L') L D' L' R' B D2 R2 D2 R D' U' F'
Final: B D2 B' F' D U2 F D2 F' U2 L B' L' F L B D' L' R' B D2 R2 D2 R D' U' F' (27)


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## Mark Boyanowski (Feb 7, 2017)

Here's my third solution from PBQ Berkeley Round 1 (the only one interesting enough to post):

Scramble: R’ U’ F L’ U2 B2 D2 R’ B2 R U2 L2 R2 B R D’ F2 U2 R B2 D R2 B’ R’ U’ F



Spoiler



L' F' L // EO
(U' R2 B U') // 2x2x2
(B' D2) // 2x2x3 + 2x2x1
(B2) // F2L -1 missing a corner
(D' F D' F' D2) // 4C

Skeleton: L' F' L D2 F D F' @ D B2 D2 B U B' R2 U

@ = F, D B2 D' (Changes the 4C into a better kind of 4C, cancels 8)

New Skeleton: L' F' L D2 F # D2 B2 D' F' D' B U B' R2 U

# = F' D' B D F D' ^ B' D
^ = D' F2 D B' D' F2 D B

I'm extremely proud of this solve, due to the insertions. If I hadn't inserted the comm that cancels 8, IF gives optimal (with pure insertions) as 27!


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## xyzzy (Feb 12, 2017)

dadams weekly 163: F' B' U2 R2 B2 L D' B2 U2 F2 D R L2 F2 D' U' L B' D' F



Spoiler



R2 U F' // pseudo222 (3/3)
inv: F U2 R2 U R' // pseudo223 (5/8)
U R2 B' R' // eo (4/12)
B U B2 U2 B2 U' B' // f2l (7/19)

I didn't know this ZBLL, and it's not a short one anyway. Instead of doing a 10-move alg to force L3C, I just started looking for insertions.

Skeleton: R2 U F' U R2 B' R' @ B U B2 U2 B2 U' B' R U' R2 U2 F'

Inserting U B U' B' at @ to solve the edge 3-cycle cancels five moves, essentially being a (−1)-move-long insertion. (!!) This leaves four corners (3-cycle + twist), which I did in the usual way.

$ R2 U F' U R2 B' # R' U B' U2 B2 U' B' R U' R2 U2 F'
# = [D, R' U2 R]
$ = [D' L' D, R2]

Five moves cancel, leading to a final length of 29 moves:
D' L' D R2 D' L D U F' U R2 B' D R' U2 R D' R' U' B' U2 B2 U' B' R U' R2 U2 F'


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## YouCubing (Feb 14, 2017)

just doing some casual FMC, got my 2nd best single within 10 minutes (I looked for better solutions but couldn't find any)
btw I'm a skrub so I just blockbuild but ok

Scramble: L2 R2 U2 L2 B2 U2 B2 D L D' F L B' F D2 L2 U' L
U2 L R U // 2x2x2 (4/4)
L2 F' D' L F' D // 2x2x3 (6/10)
U' F2 U L' F // F2L-1 (5/15)
L' F' L F L F' L F U L' U' // 2x3x3 (11/26)
F' L2 F L F' L F // LL (7/33)
final solution - U2 L R U L2 F' D' L F' D U' F2 U L' F L' F' L F L F' L F U L' U' F' L2 F L F' L F - 33 moves
pretty easy F2L-1, but I thought my continuation was a little creative


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## ChrisCuber123 (Feb 15, 2017)

Just did the first scramble from FMC finals at Mental Breakdown Germany, got sub Sebastien by 7 moves and feel accomplished lol


Spoiler



scramble: R' U' F U' R2 U' L2 D R2 B2 R2 U B' D2 B' L B R2 D F R' U' F
inverse: F' U R F' D' R2 B' L' B D2 B U' R2 B2 R2 D' L2 U R2 U F' U R

moves in parentheses are on inverse
B' R F' L2 D' // 2x2x2
(D U B' D2 R' D R2) // 2x2x3 + EO
B2 L U' L' // F2L-1
(R' U' R U' R' U' R U') // L4C
skeleton: B' R F' L2 D' B2 L U' L' U R' U R U R' * U R' D' R D2 B U' D'
insert at *: R' D' R ^ U R' D R U' (9 moves cancelled wtf)
insert at ^: R D2 R' U2 R D2 R' U2
final solution: B' R F' L2 D' B2 L U' L' U R' U R U R2 D' R2 D2 R' U2 R D2 R' U' D2 B U' D' (28)


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## Cale S (Feb 16, 2017)

28.67 official mean at Wisconsin Winter (2nd place)


Spoiler: 25



R' U' F U F2 R2 F2 D' U B2 D' B D F' D2 R' U2 F2 U' R2 F' R D' R' U' F

F @ D' // square
(R2 D' F' L2) // 2x2x3
U2 (U' B U' B2 U' B2 U2 B) // F2L - 1
(L' B2 L B') // L3C
@ = [L U' L', D']

Solution:
F L U' L' D' L U L' U2 B L' B2 L B' U2 B2 U B2 U B' U L2 F D R2





Spoiler: 32



R' U' F R2 D2 L2 D2 L' D2 L' B2 R' B U B F' D' B' U' R F R2 U2 R' U' F

L2 U' B' R2 // 2x2x2
F L' U R // pseudo 2x2x3
(R L2 U F' B) F' B // F2L
B L2 B2 U B U' B L2 B' // OLLCP
D2 L' B F' D2 F B' L' D2 // EPLL

couldn't find a better edge insertion...

Solution:
L2 U' B' R2 F L' U R F' B2 L2 B2 U B U' B L2 B' D2 L' B F' D2 F B' L' D2 B' F U' R' L2





Spoiler: 29



R' U' F R' B2 D2 R D2 L B2 L2 R' B' D2 U2 L U B F D2 F R2 F R' U' F

L // 2 pairs
D R' U L R // 2 squares
(R U2 F) // 2x2x2
B D' R' (F B') // more blocks
F D R D R' D B' D' B D // L3C

L D R' U L R B D' R' F D R D R' D B' D' B D ^ B F2 U2 R'
^ = [D' R' D, L]

Solution: L D R' U L R B D' R' F D R D R' D B' D' B R' D L D' R D L' B F2 U2 R'


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## guysensei1 (Feb 16, 2017)

Weekly


Spoiler



Scramble: F' R' U L2 U' F2 L2 D' U' L F2 U2 B2 L2 U' B2 L F R U'

D' F2 D'//1x2x3
L R2 D' R F' R//2x2x3
L U * F U' F' L U2 L//F2L-1
B' U B U'//3C 

*= U' R D' R' U R D R', cancels 3

Final: D' F2 D' L R2 D' R F' R2 L D' R' U R D R' F U' F' L U2 L B' U B U' (26)

Simple and straightforward.


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## xyzzy (Feb 17, 2017)

dadams 164



Spoiler



L R' B2 // square (3/3)
U' F U D R // EO + 222 (5/8)
inv: L2 R U L2 // square (4/12)
F2 R' U' F2 U // F2L-1 (5/17)
R2 U2 R' U' R U' // F2L; ab3c (6/23)

Skeleton: L R' B2 U' F U D R F2 R' U' F2 U @ R2 U2 R' U' R U' L2 U' R' L2
@ = [D L' D', R2] (8-2/29)

Making blocks, destroying blocks, restoring blocks. Skeleton isn't particularly good, but whatever.



On another note, I hope I get at least one sub-30 at SG Open tomorrow. (E: DNF / 36 / 35, welp. The DNF could've been a 34 if I didn't go full retard on copying the skeleton. Still NR2 for mean, I think, but the gap from guysensei1's NR is pretty wide now. And congrats!)


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## guysensei1 (Feb 18, 2017)

29.00 FMC mean and 26 single at Singapore Open! Both are NR. Solutions will be posted soon.


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## guysensei1 (Feb 18, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> 29.00 FMC mean and 26 single at Singapore Open! Both are NR. Solutions will be posted soon.


Here they are, double post, whatevers, I'm stoked.

1) R' U' F D2 L2 B2 U F2 D2 F2 L2 D' F D L2 D L' R' B D U' B2 F U2 R' U' F
29 moves


Spoiler



U' R L2 F R L U//2x2x2 (7/7)
B * R D R2 D2//2x2x3 (5/12)
R2 B2 R2 B R B2//F2L, leaves 3C3E (6/18)
*=B ** R2 B' F D2 F'
**=B2 L' F' L B2 L' F L, 3 moves cancelled in total.

Final: U' R L2 F R L U L' F' L B2 L' F L R2 F B' D2 F' R D R2 D2 R2 B2 R2 B R B2

Optimal insertions, yay. Although, high movecount blocks with a somewhat lucky ending. Found the skeleton in like 10-15 mins and spend half an hour on insertions lol



2) R' U' F R2 U2 F2 U2 R2 D2 B L2 F' D F2 L' U2 L' B2 F L' F2 U' B' R' U' F
26 moves


Spoiler



inverse,
F' D L F2//pseudo 2x2x2 (4/4)
D' U' B' U//pseudo 2x2x3 (4/8)
switch to normal
F' B'//fix pseudoness (2/10)
R'//cross edge (3/11)
D' F D F' D' R' D R//F2L-1 (8/19)
D2 B' D' B D2//F2L, leaves 3C (5/24)

Skeleton: F' B' R' D' * F D F' D' R' D R D2 B' D' B D2 U' B U D F2 L' D' F
*=D B' D' F D B D' F', 6 moves cancel kek

Final: F' B' R' B' D' F D B F' D' R' D R D2 B' D' B D2 U' B U D F2 L' D' F
Probably the silliest 26 ever. Even funnier because everyone else thought it was the worst scramble. But I'll take it.



3) R' U' F D2 L2 D2 B2 D2 B' F2 L2 B L2 D' F2 D2 L R2 B' F2 D' B R2 U' R' U' F
32 moves


Spoiler



inverse,
L' U R B' U'//2x2x2 (5/5)
switch to normal
D' L' D L D'//2x2x3 (5/10)
switch to inverse,
L' F//pseudo F2L-1 (2/12)
normal,
*F2*//correct pseudoness (1/13)
inv,
L' F L F'//F2L (4/17)
B D L D' L' B'//F sexy F' (6/23)
F L U L' U' L U L' U' *F'*// F double inv sexy F' (10-1/33-1)

Final: D' L' D L D' F' U L U' L' U L U' L' F' B L D L' D' B' F L' F' L F' L U B R' U' L

gawd that LL, 32 is an ok solve but not when I get one this way... During the attempt I found another 32 with a ZBLL but I use this instead because its funnier i guess.

EDIT: If i had somehow known the optimal alg it would have cancelled 4 more moves for 28, lol
F L U2 D' B' U' B D L' U' L U L' U' F'

After the attempt someone showed me this 8 move 2x2x3
y L U' L U2 F' L U L'
Can't be bothered to find a solution with this.


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## mDiPalma (Feb 18, 2017)

25 htm on the daily reddit scramble



Spoiler



scramble: L B' U R' F' U L' D' L2 U F' R2 F' U F' L' B' R' D2 L'
solution: f2 U' u2 r' U2 f U2 f' u f' R2 U' R r' U F' U F2 U2 F' U2 F' U2 r U2


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## guysensei1 (Feb 22, 2017)

F2 U B2 R' U' F R' L2 U R' F2 U2 L2 D B2 U R2 F2 R2 

inverse,
U2 F U2 L2//Xcross
D' R D *U R U'*//XXcross
normal
D' R' D//F2L-1
F R' F' R'//block
U' R U R'//complete F2L with a different color base 
U2 R2 D' r U2 r' D R *U2 R U'*//LL with unnecessary AUF

Final: D' R' D F R' F' R' U' R U R' U2 R2 D' r U2 r' D R U D' R' D L2 U2 F' U2 (27) 

adding extra AUF moves makes my solution shorter, lol


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## Torch (Feb 23, 2017)

Found something really weird in the Speedsolving weekly comp scramble:



Spoiler



Scramble: L2 B L2 D2 F' L2 B2 U2 L2 B2 L' R' D' R2 U F D' R' B' U'

(R' F' D' R' U')

Triangular Francisco all around?


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## guysensei1 (Feb 24, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> After the attempt someone showed me this 8 move 2x2x3
> y L U' L U2 F' L U L'
> Can't be bothered to find a solution with this.


I bothered to find a (partial) solution after all.

S: R' U' F D2 L2 D2 B2 D2 B' F2 L2 B L2 D' F2 D2 L R2 B' F2 D' B R2 U' R' U' F

F U' F U2 R' F U F'//2x2x3 (8)
inverse,
L U' L2 B2 L//EO
U *B2*//F2L-1
normal,
B U B' U B U *B'*//4C

IF gives 29


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## porkynator (Feb 24, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> I bothered to find a (partial) solution after all.
> 
> S: R' U' F D2 L2 D2 B2 D2 B' F2 L2 B L2 D' F2 D2 L R2 B' F2 D' B R2 U' R' U' F
> 
> ...



There is a pretty easy (=almost CFOP) linear continuation for 28 total moves:
F U' F U2 R' F U F'
U2 B L' B' L
B R' U R *U'
U'* B2 U
L' B2 L B L' B L B2


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## Jaysammey777 (Feb 26, 2017)

1st Place at All Aboard: choo choo
Scramble: R' U' F D2 F2 L2 U2 L2 F L2 U2 F2 L B2 D L' R' U' L2 R' U R' U' F
EO: L' F (2/2)
Line: L' R' U (3/5)
1x2x2: L2 D L2 D (4/9)
Switch to Inverse:
Psuedo 2x2x3: R2 D L' D' L (5/14)
AB3C: D R' D' R' D2 R' D R2 L (9/23)
Skeleton: L' F L' R' U L2 D L2 D L' R2 D' R D2 R D R D' L' * D L D' R2
Insert at *: R' U' R D2 R' U R D2 (8/31)
Cancellations: D2 D = D' 31-1 = 30 HTM

Skeleton found in 21 mins. Spent 28 mins looking to cancel 2 moves, only got one, total time was 49 minutes.


Spoiler



Just looked it up. OPTIMAL WAS 2 CANCELLED UGHHGHGHGHGHGHHHGHG
L' F * L' R'
* = F2 L B2 L' F2 L B2 L'
This makes me sad.


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## Cale S (Mar 5, 2017)

1st place at KCubing Winter 2017

Scramble: L2 D' B2 L F' L' B2 L F L2 B2 U2 F' L U2 L' D2 L U2 L' B' U2 B2 D2 F' U F D2 L'

L (L2 D' L') // EO
(B2 U2 F' D2) // 2x2x2
(B' U2 B2 D2 F' U F D2) // 16 to good L6C

L D2 F' U' F D2 B2 U2 B D2 ^ F U2 B2 L @ D L2
^ = [D2, L U2 L']
@ = [L F' L', B2]

Solution: L D2 F' U' F D2 B2 U2 B L U2 L' D2 L U2 L' F U2 B2 L2 F' L' B2 L F L' B2 D L2
29 moves

bad scramble, nice skeleton, bad insertions

edit: after trying more stuff with my EO, I found 3 ways to get to 26


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## guysensei1 (Mar 6, 2017)

weekly, 27


Spoiler



s: D R' L2 D2 R2 F B D2 L' F2 D L' B F2 L R' B' F L' R2

On inverse with premove *U2*:
U2 F L'//2x2x2
U F' U' F R//2x2x3
D F D F' *D2*//F2L-1
U *D'* L D F2 D2 L' D2 *F2 U'*//ZBF2L
*U F2* U2 F' U2 F' U2 F2 *U*//LL

6 moves cancel out.

Final: U F2 U2 F U2 F U2 D2 L D2 F2 D' L' D' U' F D' F' D' R' F' U F U' L F' U2


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## daver12345 (Mar 6, 2017)

I have a quick question about FMC. So I went to All Aboard and I DNFed my FMC solve.
I started with a 2x2x2 block in inverse and built off of that alternating between inverse and regular. What I was confused about was how to write the final solution. I couldn't figure out what order I should have put them in and DNFed because I couldn't understand it. If anyone could help me understand, that would be great. Thanks!


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## xyzzy (Mar 6, 2017)

daver12345 said:


> I started with a 2x2x2 block in inverse and built off of that alternating between inverse and regular. What I was confused about was how to write the final solution. I couldn't figure out what order I should have put them in and DNFed because I couldn't understand it.



Copy out all the moves done on the normal scramble first (in order), then copy out the moves done on the inverse scramble (reversed). So if your solution looks something like this:

start on inverse: part1
switch to normal: part2
switch to inverse: part3
switch to normal: part4

You write it out as part2 part4 (part3)' (part1)'. See also porkynator's FMC tutorial (the NISS section) for a more detailed explanation.


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## guysensei1 (Mar 7, 2017)

I used an unusual insertion for FMC, scramble from reddit's daily scramble.

s: U R B' R' F L D' R2 B' D' R2 B R' D2 F L U L B' L'
premove: F 
U' F' L F2//2x2x2 
U2 L2 B' U2 B'//2x2x3 
B' U' B L' U L'//2c4e 
Skeleton: U' F' L @ F2 U2 L2 B' U2 B2 U' B L' U L' F 
@=B2 R' B2 # D2 L' D' L D'
#=B' D F2 D' B D F2 D'

Final: U' F' L B2 R' B D F2 D' B D F2 D L' D' L D' F2 U2 L2 B' U2 B2 U' B L' U L' F (29)

Now, the explanation for the wacky insertion:
To use Jay/Brest's insertion method at @, perform F2 U2 L2 B' U2 B2 U' B L' U L' F then the scramble, then U' F' L
Now we can see how it works
B2 R' B2//solve white cross edge
D2 L' D' L D'//insert F2L pair, leaving 3C

I'm not sure about normal ways to deal with a 2C4E, I think i got quite lucky this time.


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## Attila (Mar 11, 2017)

German Forum, 3rd scramble (ongoing)

R' U' F D' L2 B2 D' L2 F2 D F2 R2 U' F' D2 L D U' F2 U R' F' U' R' U' F


Spoiler



R' U2 D2 R2 D2 B orient corners,
L2 U' F B' R orient edges,
F2 U2 B2 D U2
L D2 U2 R
D' F2 D2


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## guysensei1 (Mar 11, 2017)

Reddit daily scramble, 28HTM
scramble: D' B D R2 D F L' F2 D2 L2 U2 R B' U2 F' L' U2 R2 D R2


Spoiler



R' U2//2x2x1
switch to inverse,
U2 B R2//2x2x2
D L'//pairs 
F D' F//square
L2 F' L'//F2L-1
D' F2 D F//another square, leaves 3 corners and 3 edges
L//setup move
B' D' B R F D F' R' D' //easy LL algorithm
L'//undo setup
Final: R' U2 L D R F D' F' R' B' D B L' F' D' F2 D L F L2 F' D F' L D' R2 B' U2 (28)

Not sure if there are easier ways to deal with those last 6 pieces.


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## bubbagrub (Mar 12, 2017)

I have a question about EO: My normal speedsolving method is CFOP, so EO is not an idea that comes very naturally to me. I understand how to use it after building a 223, but I don't understand what people are doing when they do EO at the beginning of an FMC solve. Specifically: if I understand it correctly, for a given scramble, an unsolved edge can be considered to be either oriented or unoriented depending on which faces you are considering orientation in relation to. So when doing EO at the start, I guess you're committing to a particular orientation of the cube, and to avoiding certain moves that would break EO. 

Can anyone explain how you use EO at the start of a solve? And is my understanding of how EO works right?


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## Rcuber123 (Mar 12, 2017)

Can I get a link for IF?


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## parsa (Mar 12, 2017)

Rcuber123 said:


> Can I get a link for IF?


fewestmov.es


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## porkynator (Mar 12, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> I have a question about EO: My normal speedsolving method is CFOP, so EO is not an idea that comes very naturally to me. I understand how to use it after building a 223, but I don't understand what people are doing when they do EO at the beginning of an FMC solve. Specifically: if I understand it correctly, for a given scramble, an unsolved edge can be considered to be either oriented or unoriented depending on which faces you are considering orientation in relation to. So when doing EO at the start, I guess you're committing to a particular orientation of the cube, and to avoiding certain moves that would break EO.
> 
> Can anyone explain how you use EO at the start of a solve? And is my understanding of how EO works right?


Yes, it's correct. To learn how to do EO at the beginning of the solve you should look at some ZZ method tutorial, for example this one: http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php
Basically, choosing an orientation means you pick two opposite layers (e.g. F and B) that you don't want to move anymore in the solve (actually it is more convenient to allow oneself to use F2 ad B2). Then an edge is correctly oriented if it can be put correctly into place without turning those layers, it is wrong otherwise.
In practice there are faster ways to detect if an edge is correct or not, based on "which color is facing which side".


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## Rcuber123 (Mar 12, 2017)

parsa said:


> fewestmov.es


Can't get it to work.
I inserted an ab3c skeleton and it says that there is parity and it only let's me hit "pure insertion".

Edit: nvm I fixed it. Yay my insertion was optimal!


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## Cale S (Mar 13, 2017)

cool insertion from weekly German FMC


Spoiler



R' U' F D' L2 B2 D' L2 F2 D F2 R2 U' F' D2 L D U' F2 U R' F' U' R' U' F

L U F L' U2 // 2x2x2
L' B2 // 2x2x3
(L2 D2) D' // F2L - 1
(L2 F L F' L F' D F D') // L4E

L U F L' U2 L' B2 F' D' F L' F @ L' F' L2 D2 L2 
@ = F' L' F L U2 B L B' L' U2 

Solution: L U F L' U2 L' B2 F' D' F L2 F L U2 B L B' L' U2 L' F' L2 D2 L2 
24 moves

found the 4E alg by doing a 1 move setup to an ELL: 
U (U' F' L' F L U) (U B L B' L' U') U'


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## T1_M0 (Mar 13, 2017)

Ok, I have never tried fmc but would like to start learning. My question is about the best method to begin with (or give guidelines). Cfop can take over 60 moves for me so I'd like to learn a new method. I've heard that for example Roux and ZZ take much less moves. However I have no idea how any other method work so I'd like to get a good tutorial (if someone could recommend one).

So again: I'd like to learn as move-efficient and easy method as possible and a get tutorial for that to start learning fmc properly. Of course you can give fmc tips for cfop also if you think that's better.

If there is already a discussion about this, you could guide me there.


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## Elo13 (Mar 13, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Ok, I have never tried fmc but would like to start learning. My question is about the best method to begin with (or give guidelines). Cfop can take over 60 moves for me so I'd like to learn a new method. I've heard that for example Roux and ZZ take much less moves. However I have no idea how any other method work so I'd like to get a good tutorial (if someone could recommend one).
> 
> So again: I'd like to learn as move-efficient and easy method as possible and a get tutorial for that to start learning fmc properly. Of course you can give fmc tips for cfop also if you think that's better.
> 
> If there is already a discussion about this, you could guide me there.



I highly recommend checking out SpeedCubeReview's fmc tutorials on YouTube. At first it might be good to just get familiar with building blocks before going on to the more advanced concepts.


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## xyzzy (Mar 13, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Of course you can give fmc tips for cfop also if you think that's better.



CFOP tends to be not very useful for FMC, _but_ it's still possible to get sub-60 solves with CFOP and it's useful as an alternative when nothing else seems to work well.


Be fully colour neutral.
Use optimal F2L algs, especially for non-intuitive cases.
Don't always restore the cross immediately after inserting a pair; sometimes you can leave out the last move of an F2L insert to get a better case for the next pair.
Use edge control.

Learn the short optimal PLL algs (A, H, J, T, U) if you don't already know the optimal versions.

Use keyhole when you can.

Some OLL algs can be executed from multiple angles (e.g. double Sune), and using different angles can sometimes force a better PLL.


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## AlphaSheep (Mar 13, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Ok, I have never tried fmc but would like to start learning. My question is about the best method to begin with (or give guidelines). Cfop can taken e over 60 moves for me so I'd like to learn a new method. I've heard that for example Roux and ZZ take much less moves. However I have no idea how any other method work so I'd like to get a good tutorial (if someone could recommend one).
> 
> So again: I'd like to learn as move-efficient and easy method as possible and a get tutorial for that to start learning fmc properly. Of course you can give fmc tips for cfop also if you think that's better.
> 
> If there is already a discussion about this, you could guide me there.


Don't learn a method for FMC. Rather learn to solve any scramble intuitively.

To go from CFOP to a decent blockbuilding, solve cross and your first F2L pair on one cube. Then on another cube look at the samescramble and see how many moves you can save if you build the same block, but without solving the two extra cross edges. Carry on with expanding the block by inserting only the cross edge that you need for that block. 

With regards to color neutrality, if you're you're not color neutral, you can take advantage of the fact that you have three cubes. Do the scramble normally on the first cube, do it with an x rotation on the second cube, and with a z rotation on the third cube. 

The last thing to remember is that good FMC solutions are 100% taking advantages of lucky cases. The top solvers only have a larger collection of tricks to look for, and the more tricks you have, the more likely it is that one will be lucky. So take full advantage of your hour. Try as many different approaches as possible. Look at where pieces are going and try to force skips.

It's not to hard to average around 40 moves just by doing simple tricks like this.


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## T1_M0 (Mar 13, 2017)

Nice, I'll try these!


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## bubbagrub (Mar 13, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Nice, I'll try these!


Also, I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone has yet recommended the best tutorial:

http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf


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## ronaldm (Mar 14, 2017)

Finally a sub-40, but I know it could've been much better, considering I was at F2L-1C after 14 moves. Any suggestions?

Scramble: R2 D2 B' D2 F2 D2 U2 L2 F L2 F' U B' F2 R2 U R B F' D U2


F' U B U' B' U [2x2x2]
L D L' D2 [2x2x3]
F' D' F2 D [F2L -1C]

Now the part I have most issues with: edges on LL:

B R U R' U' B' [orientation of edges]
B R B' R B R2 B' R2 [permutation of edges, for L5C]

Skeleton to L5C:
F' U B U' B' U L D L' D2 F' D' F2 D B R U R' U' * R B' R B R2 B' R2

Insert at *:
U R U' L2 U # R' U' L2 (6 cancellations)

Insert at #:
U' B' U F U' B U F' (2 cancellations)


Final solution:
F' U B U' B' U L D L' D2 F' D' F2 D B R L2 B' U F U' B U F' R' U' L2 R B' R B R2 B' R2 [34 moves]


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## xyzzy (Mar 14, 2017)

ronaldm said:


> Finally a sub-40, but I know it could've been much better, considering I was at F2L-1C after 14 moves. Any suggestions?
> 
> Scramble: R2 D2 B' D2 F2 D2 U2 L2 F L2 F' U B' F2 R2 U R B F' D U2
> 
> ...



F' U B U' B' U // 2x2x2
L D L' D2 // 2x2x3
//F' D' F2 D
U F' U' D' F2 D // F2L
B' R' D' R D B // edges; ab3c

I tried inserting a U and U' around the F' in your solution to flip two edges, and while there are still two misoriented edges in the LL, now you can fix it with a single fruruf. This leaves 3 unsolved corners.

Edit: Here are some other alternatives.

You can use the eight-move pure OLL alg R U R2 F R F2 U F to flip the two edges. Fun fact: this alg is actually three sledgehammers cancelled into each other: (U' R U R') (R' F R F') (F' U F U').

Or you can switch to the inverse, use a sledgehammer to orient the edges, then reinsert the F2L edge. There are two ways to sledgehammer, leading to two different skeletons.

… F' D' F2 D // F2L-1 (4/14)
(F D' F' D R' D R D' R2) // edges; ab5c (9/23)

… F' D' F2 D // F2L-1 (4/14)
(D' F D F' R F' R' F R2) // edges; ab4c (9/23)

But in both of these cases, there are some other things you can do after the sledgehammer. This first one is pretty obvious: rather than inserting only the edge, you pair it up with the corner and then insert.

… F' D' F2 D // F2L-1 (4/14)
(F D' F') // EO (3/17)
(D2 R' D' R D R' D' R') // F2L; ab3c (8/25)

The second one is weirder. After the sledgehammer, you'll see that there's actually a bunch of pairs lying around, and, you know, wouldn't it be a waste to destroy them?

… F' D' F2 D // F2L-1 (4/14)
(D' F D F' R2) // EO + align (5/19)

At this point, you need to cycle the three pairs. You can't use an 8-move commutator here, but you _can_ set it up to an 8-move case with a single move.

… (D' F D F' R2) // EO + align (5/19)
(F Dw2 L' U2 L Dw2 L' U2 L F') // block commutator (10/29)

… (D' F D F' R2) // EO + align (5/19)
(F2 R B' Lw2 B R' B' Lw2 B F2) // block commutator (10/29)

(stealth edit: fixed the move counts of the last few examples)


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## T1_M0 (Mar 14, 2017)

Ok, I tried my first fmc ever. I watched Speedcubereview's youtube tutorials to get started. I ended up with 55 moves and was thinking if someone could help me especially after f2l-1

Scramble: B2 U2 R2 D L2 F2 U2 R2 U L2 U F L' U' B' F D F U2 R' D' U'
alg.cubing.net

Solution:
(L D B F L2 B L' B') 2x2x2 block
(U D R D' U B' R2 B) 2x2x3 block
(F L F L2 U L) F2L-1

Ok and then things got pretty inefficient. I tried some inverse solving and eo before last f2l pair but ended up with normal cfop ending. I had unlucky e-perm which gave 16 moves (optimal is 14 i guess). Still my movecount was lower than with some EO tricks which I tried and definitely didn't quite get.

(F' U' F' U F U' F' U) Last F2L pair
(U F U' F' U' R U R') OLL
(U L' U' R U L U' R' U L U' R U L' U' R') E-perm
F2

So if someone could help me with EO and LL. I also know only 25 OLL so without EO I'm gonna end up with 2-look. I think my f2l-1 was pretty good for beginner but the long algorithms in the end irritate me.



EDIT: Oh I didn't even notice that after last f2l pair I have U2.  That gives 54 moves.


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## bubbagrub (Mar 14, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Ok, I tried my first fmc ever. I watched Speedcubereview's youtube tutorials to get started. I ended up with 55 moves and was thinking if someone could help me especially after f2l-1
> 
> Scramble: B2 U2 R2 D L2 F2 U2 R2 U L2 U F L' U' B' F D F U2 R' D' U'
> alg.cubing.net
> ...



I'm no expert, but here are some thoughts:

First, best to avoid using parentheses, as that implies the moves are done on the inverse scramble.

Next, after your 2x2x3 block, notice that F U' is two moves to a pseudo-F2L. In other words, it would be F2L if on that white 1x2x3 block, all the non-white colours were inverted (i.e., orange <--> red, green <--> blue). You can fix this by doing U2 as a premove -- i.e., do U2 before you do the scramble. Then once you've finished your solve, you add U2 to the end of your scramble. It sounds like magic, but it works.

So this gives you a fairly quick F2L (19 moves, including the pre-move), but it gives you a bad last layer. Still, U F L U' F' L' cancels some moves and orients some edges. If you then do L D F D' F' L' you cancel a couple more moves and end up with 3 corners and 2 edges. That's not a particularly nice case (particularly with the twisted corner) but in theory you could then look for an insertion to solve it with cancellations. It might be that there's some other way to approach that last layer that leads to a nicer insertion. 

I'm not saying this is the right way to approach your solve, but I wanted to give an idea of what a typical continuation from 2x2x3 might look like.


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## T1_M0 (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks a lot about the pseudo tip! I looked that I had a 3x2x1 block ready but didn't know how could I use it because it was upside down/didn't fit my f2l. 

I have really no idea of these cancellations and insertions and commutators so I ended up doing cfop ending again. I got to 52 moves even with 2-look oll (dot case) and r-perm. I guess I need to watch these last layer/EO tutorials and try to start using some tricks.


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## ronaldm (Mar 14, 2017)

xyzzy said:


> F' U B U' B' U // 2x2x2
> L D L' D2 // 2x2x3
> //F' D' F2 D
> U F' U' D' F2 D // F2L
> ...



Cheers! There are some really good pointers in there, thank you for that 

I'll defo have a look at re-inserting edges to influence orientation of LL instead of trying to do it purely with OLL and/or sunes.
Block commutators may be a step to far for me at the moment, as this was only my second solve where I actually used insertions, but I'll defo start playing around with it a bit to get a feel for it, and who knows I'll come across a solve to actually use it


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## T1_M0 (Mar 16, 2017)

Sorry if spamming but I really want to understand this. So, I've started to figure out how commutators and insertions work and I would like to know how could I use them. So, here is a 46 move solution I found. It left me with an A-perm (So a corner 3-cycle, shouldn't that be the easiest of them all?). I've tried to find a place to insert it but my question is: how do I recognise if the corner is flipped right or wrong? Anyone could give me an example insertion for this solve?

Scramble: U B2 L2 D U2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 U’ R B2 F’ L’ D U2 F’ D F’ L U2
Solution: F D F’ D2 R’ L2 D’ L2 (2x2x2) R’ U2 B R B’ (2x2x3) U R U R’ U’ R U R U2 (F2L-1) R2 B’ R2 B U R2 U’ (F2L) B’ R’ B R’ B’ R2 B (OLL) D’ F D’ B2 D F’ D’ B2 D2 R (PLL)


And additionally, if there are twisted corners or multi-cycles, how could I use multiple commutators?

This was a pretty lucky solve, I didn't use any pseudo-blocks or NISS, just tried both f2l orientations after 2x2x3. I'd just like to understand these insertions and then try to add all of these methods to solutions to get lower movecounts.


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## bubbagrub (Mar 16, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Sorry if spamming but I really want to understand this. So, I've started to figure out how commutators and insertions work and I would like to know how could I use them. So, here is a 46 move solution I found. It left me with an A-perm (So a corner 3-cycle, shouldn't that be the easiest of them all?). I've tried to find a place to insert it but my question is: how do I recognise if the corner is flipped right or wrong? Anyone could give me an example insertion for this solve?
> 
> Scramble: U B2 L2 D U2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 U’ R B2 F’ L’ D U2 F’ D F’ L U2
> Solution: F D F’ D2 R’ L2 D’ L2 (2x2x2) R’ U2 B R B’ (2x2x3) U R U R’ U’ R U R U2 (F2L-1) R2 B’ R2 B U R2 U’ (F2L) B’ R’ B R’ B’ R2 B (OLL) D’ F D’ B2 D F’ D’ B2 D2 R (PLL)
> ...



OK -- so if you do R after your OLL, you just have three wrong corners. You're right that the best case is when you have solved everything about three corners, but it doesn't need to be an A-Perm -- it can be any 3 corners in a cycle, anywhere on the cube. Once you've got to that point, you need some little removable stickers. Put one sticker on each side of the three wrong corners. Pick one, at random, and label it 1A. Now work around that corner clockwise, and label the next one 1B and the third one 1C.

Now, take a look at what piece 1 is, and see where it needs to go. So let's say it's the yellow-red-blue corner, and you labeled red as 1A. Now you want to find where 1A goes, which is where the red sticker of red-yellow-green. So you mark red as 2A, and work around again, 2B, 2C. Now you look again and see where 2A wants to go, which is where red-green-white now is. So you put 3A on the red sticker of that corner, and so on.

Now, invert the solution on your cube, to get back to the scrambled state. 

Now, work through the solution, one move at a time, and look for places where you can do a commutator. To recognise it, you want two As, two Bs or two Cs both on the same face, and then you want the third one with the same letter to be on a corner on the opposite side, but not on the opposite face (e.g., if 1A and 2A are both on D, then you want 3A to be on F, R, L or B, on a corner on the top of the cube, but not on the U face). To get a cancellation, ideally, the next move in the solution after your insertion would be D, D' or D2, as your commutator will probably end with D, if 1A and 2A are on D.

For multiple cycles, there are two approaches. The way I recommend starting with, is to do your insertion and then you write up your new skeleton -- your original skeleton plus your commutator. Now remove the stickers that are now solved, and start again, working just with whatever is left. E.g., if you have 5 corners, you might do a commutator that permutes 2, 3 and 4. That will mean 2 is now solved and 3 is now solved, and you'll be left with 1, 4, 5 which you solve in that order -- 1-->4-->5-->1.

That's it. Hope that all makes sense -- let me know if any of it is not clear. Again, I really recommend porkynator's tutorial which covers all this very clearly.


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## T1_M0 (Mar 17, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Now, work through the solution, one move at a time, and look for places where you can do a commutator. To recognise it, you want two As, two Bs or two Cs both on the same face, and then you want the third one with the same letter to be on a corner on the opposite side, but not on the opposite face (e.g., if 1A and 2A are both on D, then you want 3A to be on F, R, L or B, on a corner on the top of the cube, but not on the U face). To get a cancellation, ideally, the next move in the solution after your insertion would be D, D' or D2, as your commutator will probably end with D, if 1A and 2A are on D.



I found only two possible cases and not near cancellations. Is it normal or is there usually more of them?

F D F’ D2 R’ L2 D’ L2 R’ U2 B R B’ U R U R’ U’ R U R U2 R2 B’ R2 B * U R2 U’ B’ R’ B R’ ** B’ R2 B R

* D' F D B2 D' F' B2
** L' D L U2 L' D' L U2


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## bubbagrub (Mar 17, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> I found only two possible cases and not near cancellations. Is it normal or is there usually more of them?
> 
> F D F’ D2 R’ L2 D’ L2 R’ U2 B R B’ U R U R’ U’ R U R U2 R2 B’ R2 B * U R2 U’ B’ R’ B R’ ** B’ R2 B R
> 
> ...



It's possible to get unlucky, but with a skeleton that long, it seems unlikely. Can you post the scramble...?


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## T1_M0 (Mar 17, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> It's possible to get unlucky, but with a skeleton that long, it seems unlikely. Can you post the scramble...?


In the previous post


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## bubbagrub (Mar 17, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> In the previous post


Doesn't seem to work...


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## T1_M0 (Mar 17, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Doesn't seem to work...


Should work. Anyway, thanks for helping me out, I'm starting to get the idea. I learned also edges insertion and got a 43 moves solve. Too bad I didn't know how to do the edges today when doing the weekly comp. Instantly after that I watched how to do them and cancelled my weeklies solve (46) to 43. I could start practising NISS too.


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## bubbagrub (Mar 17, 2017)

bubbagrub said:


> Doesn't seem to work...


OK -- I figured it out. Looks to me like you just got unlucky. I couldn't find any other commutators.


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## AlphaSheep (Mar 18, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> I found only two possible cases and not near cancellations. Is it normal or is there usually more of them?
> 
> F D F’ D2 R’ L2 D’ L2 R’ U2 B R B’ U R U R’ U’ R U R U2 R2 B’ R2 B * U R2 U’ B’ R’ B R’ ** B’ R2 B R
> 
> ...


Insertion finder (http://fewestmov.es) is an awesome tool for checking how you did on the insertions. Often after I've finished a solve I'll use insertion finder to see if there were any obvious insertions that I missed.

In your case there is only one better insertion that can cancel a move.

F D F' D2 R' L2 D' L2 R' U2 B R B' U R U R' U' R U R U2 R2 B' R2 [@1] B U R2 U' B' R' B R' B' R2 B R
Insert at @1: L' F2 L B2 L' F2 L B2
Fewest moves: 44. 1 moves cancelled
The final solution: F D F' D2 R' L2 D' L2 R' U2 B R B' U R U R' U' R U R U2 R2 B' R2 L' F2 L B2 L' F2 L B' U R2 U' B' R' B R' B' R2 B R
http://fewestmov.es/cube/if/6554f47212252f4dd124d9c4bfa147a0.cube


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## Elo13 (Mar 18, 2017)

@T1_M0 One tip about insertions that I don't remember SpeedCubeReview mentioning. As you probably know, a commutator is made up of an "insertion" and "interchange". You can start the commutator with either one, so don't don't only start with the "insertion".


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## xyzzy (Mar 18, 2017)

ronaldm said:


> Block commutators may be a step to far for me at the moment, as this was only my second solve where I actually used insertions, but I'll defo start playing around with it a bit to get a feel for it, and who knows I'll come across a solve to actually use it



In my experience, block comms aren't that useful. If you have a 3c3e skeleton and want to use a block comm insertion, you need to set up the corners to line up with the edges, which uses so many moves that it's better to do separate edge and corner insertions.

On the other hand, there are a few algs you might use that are actually block commutators. For instance, R U R' U' R' F R F' can be written as Lw F R' F' Lw' F R F'. Some Winter Variation algs are also block comms, like L' Dw2 L U' L' Dw2 L.

Essentially, if you know how to construct corner 3-cycles on the fly, then when you encounter a pair 3-cycle case, you should be able to adapt your knowledge to work with pairs instead of single corners. The tricky part is to correctly convert the wide moves into single-layer moves.



T1_M0 said:


> Scramble: U B2 L2 D U2 R2 U R2 L2 F2 U’ R B2 F’ L’ D U2 F’ D F’ L U2
> Solution: F D F’ D2 R’ L2 D’ L2 (2x2x2) R’ U2 B R B’ (2x2x3) U R U R’ U’ R U R U2 (F2L-1) R2 B’ R2 B U R2 U’ (F2L) B’ R’ B R’ B’ R2 B (OLL) D’ F D’ B2 D F’ D’ B2 D2 R (PLL)



If you insert your final F2L pair differently, you can skip OLL:

F D F' D2 R' L2 D' L2 // (2x2x2)
R' U2 B R B' // (2x2x3)
U R U R' U' R U R U2 // (F2L-1)
R2 B' R2 B *R' U R' U'* // (F2L)
U' R D' R2 U R' U' R2 U D R // J perm

40 moves if you use the optimal J perm alg (from an angle that cancels one move), 41 moves if you use an optimal alg that doesn't cancel moves, 44 moves if you use the alg that starts with L' U' L F.


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## MartinEgdal (Mar 21, 2017)

so here are my solves from my 29,67 mean of 3 from Hamburg open 2017

solve 1: 34

scramble R' U' F D2 B2 F2 L B2 D2 F2 R' F2 D' B R' B' F U' B' R2 U L' B2 R' U' F

2x2x2 R2 F2 B' D F
Switch
pair R2
Switch
P2x2x3 R D2 R' B2 pre B'
F2L-1 B R2 B' pre R2 B'
Switch
F2l B R' B' R D B R' B' R
ZBLL L D2 L' B' D L D L' D' B D'

final solution
R2 F2 B' D F R D2 R' B' R2 B' D B' D L D' L' D' B L D2 L' R' B R B' D' R' B R B' R2 B' R2

i found a way to get it to 29 later.
2x2x2 R2 F2 B' D F
Switch
pair R2
Switch
P2x2x3 R D2 R' B2 pre B'
F2L-1 B R2 B' pre R2 B'
Switch
to3c B R' B' R2 D2 R' D' R2 F' R' F R'

R2 F2 B' D F R D2 R' B' R2 @ B' R F' R F R2 D R D2 R2 B R B' R2 B' R2
Insert at @: R2 B L2 B' R2 B L2 B'
8-5/29


solve 2: 25

scramble R' U' F R2 B2 R2 F D2 F D2 F' D2 F D' U2 F D' L R' D2 F' D2 L D' R' U' F

Switch
2x2x2 R D' L B' D'
2x2x3 U2 R2 U2 B U2 B'
F2L-1 F2 U' L' U2 L
to3c U' R U' R' U2

U2 R U R' U L' U2 L U F2 B U2 B' U2 R2 U2 D B L' @ D R'
insert at @ R' U R D R' U' R D'

final soultion U2 R U R' U L' U2 L U F2 B U2 B' U2 R2 U2 D B L' R' U R D R' U'

solve 3: 30

scramble R' U' F L2 F2 D' L2 D R2 D F2 U' L' B R' D' F D' F L' D2 B2 F2 R' U' F

2x2x2 L' R2 U' R B'
2x2x3 R F U2 R2 U' @
block R' U F2 U'
to3c D' F2 D F D' F' D R F
insert at @ U' F D' F' U F D F'

final solution L' R2 U' R B' R F U2 R2 U2 F D' F' U F D F' R' U F2 U' D' F2 D F D' F' D R F

34, 25, 30=29.67 mean of 3


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## Cale S (Mar 26, 2017)

cool solution for weekly German FMC
9 move skeleton 


Spoiler



R' U' F L2 D2 B2 D F2 U F2 L D F' D2 L' D B F R' B' U F' R' U' F

L B' (D' B') // EO
(D2 B2 R U' D') // 3c6e

L B' D U R' B2 ^ @ D2 B D
^ = B2 U' B2 L2 F2 D' F2 L2
@ = L' D' U B2 % U' D L'
% = [B', D F' D']

Solution: L B' D U R' U' B2 L2 F2 D' F2 L D' U B D F' D' B D F U' L' D2 B D (26)


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## Rcuber123 (Mar 27, 2017)

Can someone competing at Europe FMC post the scrambles here after each attempt?


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## ChrisCuber123 (Mar 29, 2017)

Cale S said:


> cool solution for weekly German FMC
> 9 move skeleton
> 
> 
> ...


insertion finder gives 24 with a corner insertion that cancels nothing cmon cale ur so bad


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## Cale S (Mar 29, 2017)

ChrisCuber123 said:


> insertion finder gives 24 with a corner insertion that cancels nothing cmon cale ur so bad



yeah I saw that


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## MartinEgdal (Mar 31, 2017)

This scramble was hard for me

D L F2 D2 R' U2 L R2 D2 L2 U2 F2 U L' F L2 U2 F L U F


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## Rcuber123 (Apr 1, 2017)

Rcuber123 said:


> Can someone competing at Europe FMC post the scrambles here after each attempt?


Bump

Edit: Martin egdal R' D L2 U2 R2 seems like a good start


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## Hssandwich (Apr 1, 2017)

Official mean: 23, 39, 22

Oops...


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## Rcuber123 (Apr 1, 2017)

Hssandwich said:


> Official mean: 23, 39, 22
> 
> Oops...


What happened with the 39?


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## Hssandwich (Apr 1, 2017)

Rcuber123 said:


> What happened with the 39?


Found nothing at all, had to do a quick CFOP last layer in the last couple of minutes. I finished with 6 seconds to spare.


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## Rcuber123 (Apr 1, 2017)

Hssandwich said:


> Found nothing at all, had to do a quick CFOP last layer in the last couple of minutes. I finished with 6 seconds to spare.


Damn that probably hurts. Especially since a 28 would have been enough for a WR mean. Do you happen to have the scrambles?


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## Parham Saeednia (Apr 1, 2017)

Rcuber123 said:


> Damn that probably hurts. Especially since a 28 would have been enough for a WR mean. Do you happen to have the scrambles?


I just found the 3rd scramble from german forum
R' U' F D2 U2 F' U2 F L2 B' U2 F2 R2 U L D' F' D2 F2 U' B2 U' F' R' U' F
I found a 21move solution in about 20min



Spoiler: 21



F2 L + D' F L'//2x2x2
switch to inv
R D2//square
F R' D' R'//F2L-1
D F' D' F D'//AB3C

+: L U L' D' L U' L' D

solution: F2 L2 U L' D' L U' L' F L' D F' D F D' R D R F' D2 R'
(21HTM)


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## Hssandwich (Apr 1, 2017)

Parham Saeednia said:


> I just found the 3rd scramble from german forum
> R' U' F D2 U2 F' U2 F L2 B' U2 F2 R2 U L D' F' D2 F2 U' B2 U' F' R' U' F
> I found a 21move solution in about 20min
> 
> ...


I believe this is the 21 most people found. I did something else entirely:

(R) R //square
U F D // roux block + pseudo 222 lol
(D2) // fix
U2 F R F U F' //XXcross?
U2 B' R B U R' U // 3c

R U F D U2 F * R F U F' U2 B' R B U R' U D2 R'
*F L F' R F L' F' R' (5 cancelled)
=22


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## Rcuber123 (Apr 1, 2017)

Parham Saeednia said:


> I just found the 3rd scramble from german forum
> R' U' F D2 U2 F' U2 F L2 B' U2 F2 R2 U L D' F' D2 F2 U' B2 U' F' R' U' F
> I found a 21move solution in about 20min
> 
> ...


Found that skeleton in about half an hour. Can u find any other scrambles there?

Harrys solution is savage


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## Cale S (Apr 1, 2017)

second scramble: R' U' F L U2 F2 L' F2 R' F2 L' F2 L B D2 L' F' R U' L2 B' L' U' R' U' F
first scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 R' F2 L' D2 R' B2 D2 B' D B2 D' R' F' R2 U B' L2 U' R' U' F


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## Cale S (Apr 1, 2017)

2nd scramble of FMC Europe:

R' U' F L U2 F2 L' F2 R' F2 L' F2 L B D2 L' F' R U' L2 B' L' U' R' U' F

(R') U' F' B L' // EO
(L2 D2) D2 // 2x2x2
U2 F L2 // 2x2x3
(U2 F' U' F U' F' U2) // L4C in 18

27 optimal


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## Rcuber123 (Apr 2, 2017)

1st place at the weekly competition!

Scramble: B2 U L F D B' U2 F R U' F' B' R' F2 L' D2 F2 L2 B' F'

Premove: B2

U B' / (2/2) 2x2x1
U' R' / (2/4) 2x2x2
# L2 F' L D' / (4/8) 2x2x3
L' F L' F2 L F L' F' D' L' D L / (12/20) ab3c
B2 / (1/21) undo premove

Insert at #: [F' R F, L2]

http://alg.cubing.net/?alg=U B' U' ...' F' B' R' F2 L' D2 F2 L2 B' F'&view=playback


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## Ranzha (Apr 2, 2017)

FMC Europe: 31, 28, 21 = *26.67 mean
*
1. R' U' F R2 F2 R' F2 L' D2 R' B2 D2 B' D B2 D' R' F' R2 U B' L2 U' R' U' F


Spoiler: 31



4-move EO: {F} L F {D} // EO
I didn't go with this.

Found this at 25 minutes: L2 F' D L' B' // 222
Here, I did some moves on inverse that got to "good 6", but couldn't figure out what they were. So I wrote down what I would do to solve the 6 corners, used them as premoves, and tried to solve the and re-found this (awful) continuation:
(U R2 F2 R2) // a pair?
(U B U B' R2) // 2x2x2 + F2L edges
(D F R F' R' D') // AB6C (20)

Skel (on inverse): (U R2 F2 R2 U B U B' R2 (1) D F R F' R' D' B L D' F L2) // 20
(1): F' (2) D B D' F D B D' // 8-2
(2): [F U F', D2] // 8-3

Final: L2 F' D L' B' D R F R' F' B' D' F' D B D F U F' D2 F U' R2 B U' B' U' R2 F2 R2 U' (31)




2. R' U' F L U2 F2 L' F2 R' F2 L' F2 L B D2 L' F' R U' L2 B' L' U' R' U' F


Spoiler: 28



(U2 B' R' F') // square + good pair
B D F2 D B' U // 223 + pair
B' L D' B' D B L' B2 // AB good 6 corners

Skel: B D F2 D B' U B' L D' B (1) D B L' B2 F R B U2 // 18
(1): R' U2 R D R' (2) U2 R D' // 8-2
(2): R' D R U2 R' D' R U2 // 8-4

Final: B D F2 D B' U B' L D' B R' U2 R D R2 D R U2 R' D' R2 B L' B2 F R B U2 (28)



3. R' U' F D2 U2 F' U2 F L2 B' U2 F2 R2 U L D' F' D2 F2 U' B2 U' F' R' U' F


Spoiler: 21



First considerations:
(R' D2 B' D F U B' R) // 223
(L) R B R2 U' R // WTF

Other considerations:
F2 L D' F L' // 222 + THREE PAIRS?!?!?!
(R D2) // square, originally ended this line with (R')
(F R' D' R') // F2L-1
(D F' D' F D') // AB3C (16)

Skel: F2 L (1) D' F L' D F' D F D' R D R F' D2 R' // 16
(1): [L U L', D'] // 8-3

Final: F2 L2 U L' D' L U' L' F L' D F' D F D' R D R F' D2 R' (21)


----------



## guysensei1 (Apr 2, 2017)

Weekly, 27


Spoiler



S: R D2 L2 U2 B2 R L' U2 D' R B R2 D2 U' B2 L F R' U2 B'

L' R D B L' B2 //2x2x2+lots of pairs
R2 D' F' L D2 L' *F*//2x2x3+preserve a pair
*F'* D' F//F2L-1
B' D B D' B' D B D'//3C

L' R D B L' B2 R2 * D' F' L D2 L' D' F B' D B D' B' D B D'
*=R' D' L' D R D' L D


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## Hssandwich (Apr 2, 2017)

Should probably post my solutions to the first and last FMCE scrambles:

#1 (23)


Spoiler



R' U' F R2 F2 R' F2 L' D2 R' B2 D2 B' D B2 D' R' F' R2 U B' L2 U' R' U' F

(F) //pair
F2 D2 F2 //square
B' U2 R //222
D2 L2 D //pseudo 223
B2 L2 D' (D2) //F2L-1
(B2 R' B2 R) // F2L
D L' D' L // Reduce to block comm
B' R' B2 L B' L' B2 R // WV finish

F2 D2 F2 B' U2 R D2 L2 D B2 [L2 D' D L'] D' L B' R' B2 L B' L' [B2 R R' B2] R B2 D2 F'
=23



#3 (22)


Spoiler



R' U' F D2 U2 F' U2 F L2 B' U2 F2 R2 U L D' F' D2 F2 U' B2 U' F' R' U' F

(R) R //square
U F D // roux block + pseudo 222 lol
(D2) // fix
U2 F R F U F' //XXcross?
U2 B' R B U R' U // 3c

R U F D U2 F * R F U F' U2 B' R B U R' U D2 R'
*F L F' R F L' F' R' (5 cancelled)
=22


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## guusrs (Apr 2, 2017)

Congratz to everyone who found that wonderful 21 move solution in 3rd round FMC Europe.
I was soooo close to that solution, with 4 move start (should have been 5), switch to inverse scramble, first 6 moves on inverse. And then I overlooked the 16 move 3C.... and ended up with 27 moves. 
That's competitions!


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## YouCubing (Apr 4, 2017)

used an insertion in my final solution for the first time ever (37 found in 37:30)

alg.cubing link:


Spoiler



https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=U2_F-...-_L_B-_L_B_D_L-_D2_L_D_L-_D_L_D2_L_B-_L-_B_D-



solution:


Spoiler



scramble: U2 F' U2 B R D2 R F2 U' R F U2 F2 U2 F2 D' R2 U' B2 U R2
* R F' B' R' // 2x2x2
D' L D B L D' B // 2x2x3
L2 D' L B' L B // F2L-1
D L' D2 L D L' D L D2 L B' L' B // forced OLL skip
D' // AUF

insert at *: R2 B R' F2 R B' R' F2 R'
canceled 2 moves

final solution: R2 B R' F2 R B' R' F' B' R' D' L D B L D' B L2 D' L B' L B D L' D2 L D L' D L D2 L B' L' B D'

very simple insertion, but still an insertion 


yes i'm very bad at fmc but i'm trying my best


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## Theo Leinad (Apr 6, 2017)

I took this 2010 old scramble I think and tried myself to do the best I could.
I had up to the F2L in 30 mins, and had problems with Niklas and Last 3 corners for about 45 mins.
Who can help me with insertions/commutators on this?
Should be easy for someone experienced FMCuber
Thanks.


*[Scramble] D L2 U' R2 D' L2 U R2 F2 U2 B2 F' U2 L' D R B2 U' F2 D' R'
['iS']* R D F2 U B2 R' D' L U2 F B2 U2 F2 R2 U' L2 D R2 U L2 D'

***
R2 B2 F' D U' R U' (2x2x2) - 7
L' B2 L2 (2x2x3) - 10
B D2 L B' L' (F2L-1) - 15
D B' D' B R' B' R (F2L) - 22
L B' R' B L' B' (Niklas/OLL) - 28
U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 B' (Last3C) - (1 cancelled move) = TOTAL 37
***


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## Theo Leinad (Apr 7, 2017)

okayama said:


> From Weekly competition 2011-12:
> I found the following skeleton very quickly, maybe within 5 min (still not sub 25, though).
> I'd like to team up with you in a competition, ha-ha.
> 
> ...



Hey Okayama, 
So I've been checking the full thread, 28/208 pages... 
I saw this scramble and wanted to give it a try, could you help with LL?
I just can't found something useful...
*
[Scramble] U2 B D' B R U2 R U' R2 B D R2 U L B R D' R*
[R] premove +1
L D L' D (2x2x2) – (4 mins past) - 4 moves
B2 R' B' R U2 (2x2x3) – (20 mins past) 9 moves
B R' B R2 (F2L with premove) – (40 mins past) 13+1 (premove)

...and 20 mins to go for a LL


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## guysensei1 (Apr 10, 2017)

weekly, 28


Spoiler



s: L' U' L2 R2 D2 B U2 F' D2 L2 R U' D2 L2 B2 U' L' D' R L2

inv,
D' //lots of pairs
switch,
D' F2 R2//2x2x1+preserve pair
F' D//2 cross edges
L2 F2 L F2//2x2x3
B'//F2L-1 
U2 L' B L *B'*//complete F2L
*B* U2 B' U' * B U' B' //3C
*=U' R2 U L U' R2 U L'

only one move cancels... and it was optimal, sigh


----------



## Ksh13 (Apr 11, 2017)

Daily scramble from Reddit, 29, PB by quite a bit.



Spoiler



B2 L2 B U R' D' B' U F2 L2 F2 D' R F' L2 F' L U' R' D2

U' F2 L B' L2 B' // Pseudo 2x2x3 (6/6)
(R F R' U B D' B') // F2L-1 (7/13)
(D2 F' D2 F D L D L') // To L3C (8/21)

U' F2 L B' L2 B' L D' L' D' @ F' D2' F D2' B D B' U' R F' R'

@ = [R' U2 R, D]

Final solution: U' F2 L B' L2 B' L D' L' D' R' U2 R D R' U2 R D' F' D2' F D2' B D B' U' R F' R' (29)

According to IF optimal is 28


----------



## Elo13 (Apr 11, 2017)

Same daily scramble as Ksh13, would be pb but not counting since looked up the CR2 alg.


Spoiler



B2 L2 B U R' D' B' U F2 L2 F2 D' R F' L2 F' L U' R' D2

U' F2 // pseudo 2x2x2 (2/2)
L B' L2 D B' // 2x2x3 (5/7)
L2 B D' B' // EOF2L-1 (4/11)
D' L D // CR1 (3/14)
L2 F2 U2 R2 U R2 U F2 L2 // CR2 (9/23)
L U' // premove (2-1/24)

Luckiest solve I've had. Easy 2x2x3, square done after EO, CR3 skip


----------



## Theo Leinad (Apr 12, 2017)

Elo13 said:


> Same daily scramble as Ksh13, would be pb but not counting since looked up the CR2 alg.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Hey Elo, how did you found that premove? at what moment you realize you needed to place a premove in the scramble?


----------



## Elo13 (Apr 12, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> Hey Elo, how did you found that premove? at what moment you realize you needed to place a premove in the scramble?



When I did U' F2, I noticed I had a pseudo 2x2x2 block. U' would solve the square, so adding it before the scramble gives me a normal 2x2x2.
When I did EO I noticed I had a pseudo F2L-1. L would solve the square, so adding it before the other premove gives me normal F2L-1.
When I finished the solve I took the premoves from the beginning of the scramble and added them to the end of the solve.


----------



## Theo Leinad (Apr 12, 2017)

Tim Reynolds said:


> A while ago I asked about 4-corner insertions. Thanks to everyone who responded, I got a 9-move 4-corner insertion for NAR
> 
> (reposted from MIT Fall)
> 
> ...




Hey I was checking old posts, found this Scramble and wanted to give it a try...

( premove *D'* )
Scramble * D *F2 D' L2 D' L' F D2 F2 U' B2 D' R2 D L D2 U R2* (18f)*

F D2 L' (2x2x2) -4
R' U' F L' U L (2x2x3) -6
R U2 R' U' R2 (F2L-1) - 5

Got into F2L-Corner in 15HTM
But I need to understand how to finish this skeletons... 
Guidance would be much appreciated... 
I have my first FMC in 3 weeks... not below 50 moves because I always end up with OLL + PLL...


----------



## Hssandwich (Apr 14, 2017)

I retried FMC Europe scramble 2:

R' U' F L U2 F2 L' F2 R' F2 L' F2 L B D2 L' F' R U' L2 B' L' U' R' U' F

L' B L U F //EO
U L2 // pseudo 222
R2 D // roux block + pair
U R' // solve edges
B2 U B2 U // bad 6
Insertion finder did some wacky 4c embedded insertion and a regular 3c one that cancelled 1, ending with 28.
29 is optimal with only 3c insertions.


----------



## T1_M0 (Apr 24, 2017)

Hi! I'm kinda stuck at over 40 with my solves. I'd like to have a hint on how to get better.

So, my solutions are quite the same every time. I do always 2x2 block, then 2x2x3 and f2l-1 which I can reach in about 20 moves. It's okay for me but the real problem is the continuations. I always check possible cfop endings and insertions, usually with multiple f2l-1 solutions I've found. The continuation from f2l-1 gets easily to 25 moves: sometimes the best I find is cfop ending with 15-move pll, sometimes it's multiple edge insertions to f2l-1. My pb is 38 and there was 6 moves cancel.

What techniques should I try? Does eo help a lot? Could I somehow force more pieces solved in f2l-1? I haven't quite figured out how eo works/what moves I have to do to get the right pieces flipped.

I'd appreciate any help with this. Thanks!


----------



## Theo Leinad (Apr 24, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Hi! I'm kinda stuck at over 40 with my solves. I'd like to have a hint on how to get better.
> 
> So, my solutions are quite the same every time. I do always 2x2 block, then 2x2x3 and f2l-1 which I can reach in about 20 moves. It's okay for me but the real problem is the continuations. I always check possible cfop endings and insertions, usually with multiple f2l-1 solutions I've found. The continuation from f2l-1 gets easily to 25 moves: sometimes the best I find is cfop ending with 15-move pll, sometimes it's multiple edge insertions to f2l-1. My pb is 38 and there was 6 moves cancel.
> 
> ...



Hi Timo...
I'm at the same spot...
So I figured out the follow:

1. 2x2x2
2. 2x2x3
3. F2L-1
4. Try following options:

a. F2L -> OLL -PLL
b. F2L take out pair and insert again rotating Upper layer (There's 3 possible options to insert the F2L)
c. EO -> L3C or L4C or L5C -> (PLL/insertions)
d. 1LLL (try with the 10 HTM cases first)
Step 4b gives you 9 different options for OLL so maybe one gives you a skip, checking the whole situations will be time consuming, but if you're quick, it's worth trying.

I'm not sure of other options yet, I'm at the same point than you, maybe a little more ahead.
I'll recommend to learn the next things:

Commutators (rotate 3 corners) 8 HTM (about 18 cases I think)
1LLL (Learn the 10HTM last layer cases)

If you, or someone has the graphic version of above point 1 and 2 (to learn), please share here so we can start with that 
If you would like, we can set up FMC sessions via skype, to learn how to do it both and help us each other...


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## T1_M0 (Apr 24, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> If you would like, we can set up FMC sessions via skype, to learn how to do it both and help us each other...



I like that...


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## Elo13 (Apr 24, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Does eo help a lot?



In my opinion, yes. I almost always do eo after 2x2x3. I gives more options for the rest of the solve. I usually try get to F2L-1 and then solve all edges. Then I will use commutators for the last 3-5 corners.


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## xyzzy (Apr 24, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> What techniques should I try? Does eo help a lot? Could I somehow force more pieces solved in f2l-1? I haven't quite figured out how eo works/what moves I have to do to get the right pieces flipped.



I do EO in the majority of my solves, either at the start (as in ZZ) or after a 223 block. I don't know if it's actually better, but it's usually easier to continue with the edges oriented, and often, solving the last five edges after F2L-1 is just a matter of inserting the last F2L edge in a different way.



Theo Leinad said:


> 4. Try following options:
> 
> a. F2L -> OLL -PLL
> b. F2L take out pair and insert again rotating Upper layer (There's 3 possible options to insert the F2L)
> ...



I really only use c and d, among these. Looking at my past results on the weekly FMC site, 13 attempts used only corner insertions, 3 attempts used 1LLL, and 2 attempts used weird insertions.

Learning the ≤10-move algs for 1LLL is probably overkill if your goal is just to get to sub-40, as they show up very rarely (unless you try to force them!).

If you restrict yourself to the EO cases (i.e. ZBLL), I think there are around 20 cases that can be done in ≤10 moves, and most of them are actually pretty nice, in that you could learn them for speedsolving, so you don't have to put in additional effort to refresh your memory.

On the other hand, if you include the cases with flipped edges, the algs are all over the place and most of them are bad for speedsolving, so you'll have to make a dedicated effort just to keep the algs in memory.


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## T1_M0 (Apr 24, 2017)

Elo13 said:


> In my opinion, yes. I almost always do eo after 2x2x3. I gives more options for the rest of the solve. I usually try get to F2L-1 and then solve all edges. Then I will use commutators for the last 3-5 corners.





xyzzy said:


> I really only use c and d, among these. Looking at my past results on the weekly FMC site, 13 attempts used only corner insertions, 3 attempts used 1LLL, and 2 attempts used weird insertions.



But how do I learn eo, is it good to start doing it only after f2l-1? And it doesn't solve/permute the edges, right? I mean, don't you still have to find edge commutators?


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## xyzzy (Apr 24, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> But how do I learn eo, is it good to start doing it only after f2l-1? And it doesn't solve/permute the edges, right? I mean, don't you still have to find edge commutators?



Edge commutators are easy. You probably already know this one: R U R' U'. Or maybe R U' R' U, or R U2 R' U2.

I don't recall the statistics offhand, but around half of the time, you can permute the edges with just a single trigger and at most two setup moves, so that's 5 moves for edge permutation once you have EO done.


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## Elo13 (Apr 24, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> But how do I learn eo, is it good to start doing it only after f2l-1? And it doesn't solve/permute the edges, right? I mean, don't you still have to find edge commutators?



I usually do EO after 2x2x3 because you have more freedom and can do it in less moves. It also makes getting to F2L-1 a bit easier and you're more likely to get lucky.


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## Theo Leinad (Apr 25, 2017)

Guys you're helping a lot, so for now I'll stick for commutators and learn proper EO...

I've seen couple of videos, but is there a way to do comms easy? (Or to learnhow to do them easily)
My issue is with the orientation of the corners...


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## okayama (Apr 25, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> Hey Okayama,
> So I've been checking the full thread, 28/208 pages...
> I saw this scramble and wanted to give it a try, could you help with LL?
> I just can't found something useful...
> ...


Immediate finish after F2L might be:

B' * R D + B D' B' R (L4C)
R' (premove correction)

Insert at *: U R D' R' U' R D R'
Insert at +: D F D' B' D F' D' B

results in 30 moves.


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## Theo Leinad (Apr 27, 2017)

My first PB (under 30 mins)

D' U' L2 B2 L2 F2 D' L' R' B L' U2 L2 D R B2 F' D2 U2

U' R' B R2 (2x2x1) - 4
F2 B R B' (2x2x2) - 4
F2 U L D' L' U' (2x2x3) - 6
F' D2 F L' D' F L2 F' (F2L-1) - 8
L' D2 L B D' B' (EO) - 6
R U2 R' D R U2 R' D' (L3C) - 8
*TOTAL 36*

I took this Scramble from the thread...
The L3C could be done somewhere within the solution, but I don't have stickers to check it...
I just applied some commutator I saw in internet and I'm still learning...

Sorry for the consecutive posts, I just want to revive a little bit this topic since I have a comp next week 

Would be 32 with insertion finder...

U' R' B R2 F2 B R B' F2 U L D' L' U' F' [@1] D2 F L' D' F L2 F' L' D2 L B D' B'
Insert at @1: F U' F' D' F U F' D
Fewest moves: 32. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: U' R' B R2 F2 B R B' F2 U L D' L' U2 F' D' F U F' D' F L' D' F L2 F' L' D2 L B D' B'


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## BenThePerson1 (Apr 27, 2017)

Last weekend, I got an official 23 move solution at Please Be Quiet WPI

Scramble: R' U' F U' B2 R2 D' B2 D2 U' B2 L2 R D2 U2 B U2 B U L2 B R' U2 F R' U' F

inv.
U' R' // 2x2x1
F' B R' B2 // 2x2x2
U B L2 B' *L* // 2x2x3
*L'* U2 L // EO
U2 F U2 F U' // a bunch of pieces

Skeleton: U F' U2 F' U2 L' [@1] U2 B L2 B' U' B2 R B' F R U

Insert at [@1]: B D B' [@2] U2 B D' B'
Insert at [@2]: B Dw2 D2 B' U2 B Dw2 D2 B' U2

Final solution: U F' U2 F' U2 L' B Dw2 D' B' U2 B Dw2 D L2 B' U' B2 R B' F R U


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## Shiv3r (Apr 28, 2017)

this is my first time on the FMC thread, as well as one of the first few days of my endeavour into FMC. 
What I'm wondering if anyone has an algorithms of the most move-optimal PLL's, especially H and Z perms.


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## Ranzha (Apr 28, 2017)

Shiv3r said:


> this is my first time on the FMC thread, as well as one of the first few days of my endeavour into FMC.
> What I'm wondering if anyone has an algorithms of the most move-optimal PLL's, especially H and Z perms.


If you're gonna get into FMC, you'll almost never use PLL. But here you go:
http://www.ai.univ-paris8.fr/~bh/cube/solutions_p2.html

Edit: You'll probably have to translate these algs into things you can remember if you plan on learning them. Good ones to know are J/L-perm, T-perm, and H-perm. If you intend on using U-perms or A-perms, just insert instead.


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## Shiv3r (Apr 28, 2017)

Ranzha said:


> If you're gonna get into FMC, you'll almost never use PLL. But here you go:
> http://www.ai.univ-paris8.fr/~bh/cube/solutions_p2.html
> 
> Edit: You'll probably have to translate these algs into things you can remember if you plan on learning them. Good ones to know are J/L-perm, T-perm, and H-perm. If you intend on using U-perms or A-perms, just insert instead.


what are the move-optimal algs for H-perm and Z-perm?
EDIT: I'm asking because the link is blocked for some reason on my computer. something about the internet I'm on I think.


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## 1973486 (Apr 28, 2017)

Shiv3r said:


> what are the move-optimal algs for H-perm and Z-perm?



Z

H


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## Shiv3r (Apr 28, 2017)

1973486 said:


> Z
> 
> H


thanks. 

unrelated:
I sat down and tried my first-ever FMC solve a few days back, and here's what I got.
Yes, it's inefficient. yes, I knew about NISS and psuedoblocks. I think I could have put an insertion in there for that U-perm, but couldn't find a good time when a lot of moves would be canceled.


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## T1_M0 (Apr 28, 2017)

Why am I this lucky today? My pb was 38 and today I did solves for two weekly comps. First 36, then 33! I found all edges solved in both tries... The last one even took 15 moves to build a 2x2x3 but then I found a bunch of pairs made and left with a corner 3-cycle.


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## Ranzha (Apr 28, 2017)

Shiv3r said:


> thanks.
> 
> unrelated:
> I sat down and tried my first-ever FMC solve a few days back, and here's what I got.
> Yes, it's inefficient. yes, I knew about NISS and psuedoblocks. I think I could have put an insertion in there for that U-perm, but couldn't find a good time when a lot of moves would be canceled.



Insertion Finder found a 42 
http://fewestmov.es/cube/if/dde466ab3279f4d80096ece570463403.cube

Different continuation from your 222+1 edge, but breaks EO 
Start:
D' U2 F R'//EO on red/orange
B U2 B' F L2 B//Block+1 edge
Continue:
L D L' B R2 B2 //EO2x-cross

This is a good start! Starting with EO is definitely good, but EOX-Cross is not a usual step. Generally, solving cross edges without pairs adjoining makes blockbuilding (and in turn skel-building) more difficult.


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## Keroma12 (May 1, 2017)

I accidentally got NR single at PBQ UCLA 2017 (and missed NR mean by 1 move total).

Scramble 1: R' U' F U2 F2 R2 B' L2 D2 F U2 R2 F' D2 U' F D2 U2 L2 D' U F2 R' U R' U' F
Solution: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~krmatthe/FMC/PBQUCLA17-1-1 (27 moves)

Scramble 2: R' U' F L2 U R2 D L2 B2 D L' D U' B' R2 B2 F2 D' B2 D2 R F R' U' F
Solution: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~krmatthe/FMC/PBQUCLA17-1-2 (24 moves)

Scramble 3: R' U' F U2 R2 B' F' R2 D2 B' U2 R U2 R' U F' R U R2 U' R' U' F
Solution: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~krmatthe/FMC/PBQUCLA17-1-3 (35 moves)

I had 2 sub-30s before this: 28, 29.


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## Ranzha (May 1, 2017)

Did the first round scrambles for PBQ UCLA:



Spoiler: Attempt 1



PBQ UCLA Round 1 Scramble 1
R' U' F U2 F2 R2 B' L2 D2 F U2 R2 F' D2 U' F D2 U2 L2 D' U F2 R' U R' U' F

Backup linear skeleton:
(R U R') // 3 cross pieces, as much as I hate to say it
(D R' D R F R') // 223
(L B' L') // finish cross
(D2 L B' L' B) // square + pair
(D B2 R' B' R B' D2) // 24 to 3c, optimal was 31

What I did:
D2 F D' // 222
B' U R // Built another pair, most of the belt, another cross piece, and hey EO too
R2 D B D' R2 // EO223 + sq + pair
B2 U B U2 B // ab4c (15)

Skel: D2 (D' B' D F D' B D F') F D' B' U (U' L U R' U' L' U R) R' D B D' R2 B2 U B U2 B
Final: D B' D F D' L U R' U' L' U D B D' R2 B2 U B U2 B (20)





Spoiler: Attempt 2



PBQ UCLA Round 1 Scramble 2
R' U' F L2 U R2 D L2 B2 D L' D U' B' R2 B2 F2 D' B2 D2 R F R' U' F

(U' B U') // EO
F' L' B' L2 F2 L B // the world's worst EO222
U2 R2 U2 R2 // más
U2 F U2 F2 R U2 // 4c (19)

Skel: F' L' B' L2 (L' B2 L F2 L' B2 L F2) F2 L B U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 F U2 F2 R (R' F' R B' R' F R B) U' B' U
Final: F' L' B' L B2 L F2 L' B2 L2 B U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 F U2 F R B' R' F R B U' B' U (28)





Spoiler: Attempt 3



PBQ UCLA Round 1 Scramble 3
R' U' F U2 R2 B' F' R2 D2 B' U2 R U2 R' U F' R U R2 U' R' U' F

D2 // pair
(U R' L2 B2) // 222
(F U' L2) // 223
(U R U' R') // sq
U F U F U2 // NICE
D F' U' F U D' // 3c (23)

Skel: D2 U F U F U2 D F' U' F U D' R U R' U' L2 (L U R2 U' L' U R2 U') U F' B2 L2 R U'
Final: D2 U F U F U2 D F' U' F U D' R U R' U' L' U R2 U' L' U R2 F' B2 L2 R U' (28)


25.33 mean


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## Shiv3r (May 3, 2017)

so I'm doing the weekly FMC today, and here's my start, which was a 10-move psuedo-2x2x3 I had a continuation that was pretty bad, here, a 22-move skeleton into 4c with a twisted corner.
would you agree with my start, and what continuation would you do?(I haven't checked the inverse scramble, I'll do that soon)

Also, how do you do comms with a corner twisted? I can do L3C comms pretty easily, but for twisted-corner 4c comms I can't think up what do to.


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## Ksh13 (May 3, 2017)

Shiv3r said:


> so I'm doing the weekly FMC today, and here's my start, which was a 10-move psuedo-2x2x3 I had a continuation that was pretty bad, here, a 22-move skeleton into 4c with a twisted corner.
> would you agree with my start, and what continuation would you do?(I haven't checked the inverse scramble, I'll do that soon)
> 
> Also, how do you do comms with a corner twisted? I can do L3C comms pretty easily, but for twisted-corner 4c comms I can't think up what do to.


For twisted L4C I think you are supposed to solve one corner+move the twisted corner, giving you L3C after that.


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## Shiv3r (May 3, 2017)

Ksh13 said:


> For twisted L4C I think you are supposed to solve one corner+move the twisted corner, giving you L3C after that.


ah, ok, thanks.

Anyone have tips on what to use for insertion stickers? wasting all my white stickers seems like a bad Idea, I may just use masking tape or something.

EDIT: I cant figure out how to represent what Ksh said with insertion stickers, since it isn't just 1-2-3


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## obelisk477 (May 3, 2017)

Shiv3r said:


> ah, ok, thanks.
> 
> Anyone have tips on what to use for insertion stickers? wasting all my white stickers seems like a bad Idea, I may just use masking tape or something.
> 
> EDIT: I cant figure out how to represent what Ksh said with insertion stickers, since it isn't just 1-2-3



You need a 4th sticker for the three cycle, and that 4th sticker will be on a different sticker on the first corner than the 1 sticker (because the cycle is twisted). So one corner piece will end up with the 1 and 4 stickers. The twisted corner then gets an X on it, and technically could get an x on all three pieces, because it doesnt matter how you 'break into' that piece. Then, when checking for insertions, check for the best move that would cancel two moves, using all possibilites (1 going to 2, 2 going to 3, or 3 going to 4), and when you've found it, use the X as the 3rd piece in that cycle.

At least that's how I would check for it using stickers. It's really hard to explain with words lol.


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## Theo Leinad (May 4, 2017)

Keroma12 said:


> I accidentally got NR single at PBQ UCLA 2017 (and missed NR mean by 1 move total).
> 
> Scramble 1: R' U' F U2 F2 R2 B' L2 D2 F U2 R2 F' D2 U' F D2 U2 L2 D' U F2 R' U R' U' F
> Solution: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~krmatthe/FMC/PBQUCLA17-1-1 (27 moves)
> ...



I found a 27 move solution as well (cheating a little bit... )

Scramble 1: *R' U' F U2 F2 R2 B' L2 D2 F U2 R2 F' D2 U' F D2 U2 L2 D' U F2 R' U R' U' F*



Spoiler



D2 F D' (2x2x2) - 3
B' U R U' B2 U2 B2 (Diamond) is basically a 2x2x3 - 7
F' U2 F - (F2L-1C) - 3
[B D F' D' B' D F D'] (Insertion to find PLL, delete from solution and applied PLL)
F' U2 F U2 F' L F U F' U' F' L' F2 U' (As you can see, this PLL cancelled 6 moves)
This leaves with a 3 corner insertion...

Skeleton will be :
D2 F D' B' U R U' B2 U2 B2 U2 F' L F U F' U' F' L' F2 U'
And insertion finder found the next insertion (I count this since I had to find it before  )

D2 F D' B' U R U' B2 U2 B2 U2 F' L F U F' U' F' L' *[@1] *F2 U'
Insert at *@1*: L U R U' L' U R' U'
Solution: *D2 F D' B' U R U' B2 U2 B2 U2 F' L F U F' U' F' U R U' L' U R' U' F2 U'
27 moves *(My unofficial PB because I searched for R perm, but the logic was mine  )


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## Hssandwich (May 7, 2017)

PB MO3: 24.00. 23, 25, 24

I can't find the 23 solution, but this is the scramble:
D2 L2 U' B2 D2 L2 B' U2 B' D2 L U' B R2 B U' R2 F

#2: 25


Spoiler



R U2 R F R2 L U' D L' F' R2 D2 L2 U2 B' D2 B2 D2 F

(F R2) //square
(R D' R' L U') //2x2x2 with pairs
F D // roux block
(D' L2 D) //F2L-1
(F2 U' F' U F U' F U F) //ab3c

Skeleton: F D F' U' F' U (2) F' U' F U F2 D' L2 D U L' R * D R F'
*R' U R D' R' U' R D
=25



#3: 24


Spoiler



R2 L2 F' D' R2 U B2 R F' L' F' L' F2 B2 L' B2 U2 R

U2 F2 U' //square and pairs
(B') //roux block
(R' D') //square
(L' F L) //solve things
(F' R' F R2) //ab3c3e

U2 F2 U' R2 F' R F L' F' L D * R B
*D' R2 L2 U R2 U' R2 L2 D R2 (cancel 4)

U2 F2 U' R2 F' R F L' F' L' R2 U R2 U' R2 L2 D R' * B
*R' F' R B R' F R B' (cancel 3)
=24
Optimal insertions according to IF ^-^


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## Neuro (May 16, 2017)

Alright so I just decided to take on FMC and I enjoy it quite a bit at least with the style I'm using right now. Basically you do EO Line and put E slice edges in the slice disregarding permutation, orient all corners, and solve as a domino. However, I am having a hard time optimizing domino so here's a solution up to that state if you guys would like to help me out. Thanks!

Scramble: F2 U' R2 U L2 U B2 D F2 L2 D2 F D' R' D2 L U' F' U L2 D

F' R' U B' R' U// EO with domino style belt (6) **solved belt unintentional
R2 L2 D' R' L2 U' D' R D2 R'// Corner Orientation (domino redux) 10/16


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## Hssandwich (May 16, 2017)

Neuro said:


> Alright so I just decided to take on FMC and I enjoy it quite a bit at least with the style I'm using right now. Basically you do EO Line and put E slice edges in the slice disregarding permutation, orient all corners, and solve as a domino. However, I am having a hard time optimizing domino so here's a solution up to that state if you guys would like to help me out. Thanks!
> 
> Scramble: F2 U' R2 U L2 U B2 D F2 L2 D2 F D' R' D2 L U' F' U L2 D
> 
> ...



If you switch to the invserse scramble, you can do
(U' L2 D' U' R2 U L2 U R2 U) which leaves 3 corners. I'd ask @Attila for domino advice.

Edit: Insertionfinder says that 32 is optimal, not too bad!


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## Attila (May 17, 2017)

Neuro said:


> Alright so I just decided to take on FMC and I enjoy it quite a bit at least with the style I'm using right now. Basically you do EO Line and put E slice edges in the slice disregarding permutation, orient all corners, and solve as a domino. However, I am having a hard time optimizing domino so here's a solution up to that state if you guys would like to help me out. Thanks!
> 
> Scramble: F2 U' R2 U L2 U B2 D F2 L2 D2 F D' R' D2 L U' F' U L2 D
> 
> ...


So, in my opinion, such a random domino reduction, will not be finished with a few moves.
I tried many random domino scrambles,and the average movecount around 13-14 (optimal with CE). The average human solution is obviously more than that.
That's why we need some trick, that reduces the 2nd phase movecount.
I'll explain in more detail, as I usually solve.

In the next logical order:
1st: solve all corners in 2 phase, orient first, then permute with domino moves
2nd: orient corners and solve a few edges (as much as possible)
3rd: swith to inverse, and permute corners (while caring for the existing ce-pairs)
4th: swith back to normal scramble, with inverted permutation moves
5th: orient corners again (here you can see clearly where the edges are to be moved)
6th: orient the remaining edges with Roux-style LSE algs
7th: solve the 5th and 6 step, without inverted premoves
8th: permute corners on normal (and it will be solved all edges).

Let's look at an example using your actual scramble:
F2 U' R2 U L2 U B2 D F2 L2 D2 F D' R' D2 L U' F' U L2 D

1st: D' R B' U' B U R2 D R2 D' F2
2nd: U F' B R2 B L' D' L orient corners and 4 edges,
3rd: switch to inverse with premoves L' D L B' R2 B' F U'
(F2 D R2 D' L2 U') permute corners,
4th:swith to normal with premoves U L2 D R2 D' F2
5th: U F' B R2 B L' D' L orient corners and 4 edges,
6th: L2 U' D' L B' U2 D2 F R' 2 more edges (exceptionally, the last 2 edges will be solved later)
7th: U F' B R2 B L' D' L-L2 U' D' L B' U2 D2 F R' orient corners and 6 edges,
8th: D2 B2 U2 - F U D' L' - D' B2 D F2 D' L2 D U' domino 2nd phase, with inserted F U D' L' moves.
Final solution: U F' B R2 B L' D' L' U' D' L B' U2 D2 F R' D2 B2 U2 F U D' L' D' B2 D F2 D' L2 D U' 31 moves.

I hope this is useful, if there is any question, I can help, if I can.


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## Hssandwich (May 17, 2017)

@Attila , I don't understand the purpose of step 1? You don't seem to use it later on in your solution.


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## Attila (May 17, 2017)

Hssandwich said:


> @Attila , I don't understand the purpose of step 1? You don't seem to use it later on in your solution.


1st step : D' R B' U' B orient corners
2nd step: instead of D' R B' U' B, I do d M' D2 r B' U' B /U F' B R2 B L' D' L without rotations/ 4 edges solved,
3rd step: instead of ( F2 D R2 D' R2 U') , I do (F2 D R2 D' L2 U') save ce-pairs.


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## Hssandwich (May 17, 2017)

Attila said:


> 1st step : D' R B' U' B orient corners
> 2nd step: instead of D' R B' U' B, I do d M' D2 r B' U' B /U F' B R2 B L' D' L without rotations/ 4 edges solved,
> 3rd step: instead of ( F2 D R2 D' R2 U') , I do (F2 D R2 D' L2 U') save ce-pairs.


Thank you! I didn't notice that.


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## Neuro (May 18, 2017)

So I got a 12 move EO 2x2x3 but I have no idea how to finish the solve.

Scramble: B' D2 L2 U2 L2 F' D2 L2 B2 U R2 F R' B2 R2 D' U L2 U
Inverse: U' L2 U' D R2 B2 R F' R2 U' B2 L2 D2 F L2 U2 L2 D2 B

Using inverse: F' D' F//2x2x2 (kinda)
L2 D2 L2 B2 L' B//2x2x3
F D2 F'//EO

Anything is appreciated since I'm such a noob at this like I understand most everything but commutators and insertions elude me ATM


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## sqAree (May 18, 2017)

switch to normal:
R D2 R' D2 R2 D //to last 5 corners in 18 moves total

InsertionFinder gives a 26. You should really look into insertions.


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## Jake Donnelly (May 20, 2017)

I have got a 17 move f2l-1 but don't know how to finish the solve.

D2 premove

Scramble:B2 R' D2 F2 L2 D2 U2 L D2 U2 R2 F' R U2 L2 U B F' D' B2
Inverse scramble:B2 D F B' U' L2 U2 R' F R2 U2 D2 L' U2 D2 L2 F2 D2 R B2

Normal:B L B D' B'- pseudo 2x2x2
Inverse:R U' R' L2 U' L'- 2x2x3
Inverse:U' F L F L'- f2l-1


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## Jaysammey777 (May 21, 2017)

28 HTM
Scramble: L2 D L2 U F2 L2 D' R2 B2 U' R' D2 F D2 F2 R F' U2 R F'
Can anyone find something way good after the 6 move pseduo 2x2x3?



Spoiler: Pseudo 2x2x3



Scramble: L2 D L2 U F2 L2 D' R2 B2 U' R' D2 F D2 F2 R F' U2 R F'
I: Pseudo 2x2x2: D U R' (3/3)
I: Pseudo 2x2x3: L B2 U2 (3/6)





Spoiler: My Solution



Scramble: L2 D L2 U F2 L2 D' R2 B2 U' R' D2 F D2 F2 R F' U2 R F'
I: Pseudo 2x2x2: D U R' (3/3)
I: Pseudo 2x2x3: L B2 U2 (3/6)
N: Fix: F (1/7)
I: 1x2x2: L2 U' L' U (4/11)
I: 1x2x2 2: L B' L U B' U' (6/17)
I: AB3C: B' L U' L' U L (6/23)
Skeleton: F L' U' L U L' B U B U' L' B @ L' U' L U L2 U2 B2 L' R U' D'
Insert at @: B2 L' F' L B2 L' F L (8/31)
Cancellations: F L' U' L U L' B U B U' L' (B B2) L' F' L B2 L' F (L L') U' L U L2 U2 B2 L' R U' D' -3/28
Solution: F L' U' L U L' B U B U' L' B' L' F' L B2 L' F U' L U L2 U2 B2 L' R U' D'
28 HTM
Optimal Insertion  Could have one for 29 with Nicolas at end of Inverse solution


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## 1973486 (May 21, 2017)

Jaysammey777 said:


> 28 HTM
> Scramble: L2 D L2 U F2 L2 D' R2 B2 U' R' D2 F D2 F2 R F' U2 R F'
> Can anyone find something way good after the 6 move pseduo 2x2x3?



On inverse:

Premove: L' F'

D U R' L B2 U2
L2 B U' L U
D' B' D B L B L' B' L B' L' B

Skeleton (on normal): F L B' L B L' B L B' L' B' D' B D U' L' U B' L2 U2 B2 L' R U' D'

Optimal is only 33 and I don't know if the insertion is realistic


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## Torch (May 29, 2017)

Hey guys, I found a few FMC solutions on my computer that I did last year. I doubt anyone can learn much of anything from them, since they're only ~30 move solutions, but I guess I might as well put them up here:

Scramble: R' B2 F2 U2 L' B2 L B2 F2 U2 R2 U R2 U B D' L B' D2 U'


Spoiler



(U2 F2 U2 R')//2x2x2
F' L' F U//Square
B' U B' U B U B//F2L-1
L2 D L2 D' L' D L D'//L3E

Skeleton: F' L' F U B' U B' U B U B L2 D L2 D' L' D L D' [1] R U2 F2 U2

[1]: D' B D F B' L' B' L F' B

Solution: F' L' F U B' U B' U B U B L2 D L2 D' L' D L D2 B D F B' L' B' L F' B R U2 F2 U2 (32)



Scramble: D' B2 U B2 U R2 B2 L2 B2 D F' D U F R' D' R U2 L2 F'


Spoiler



U' L2//2x2x1
(U' F' U2)//2x2x2
(D' R2 D2 B2 D')//XXcross
(R' B' R2 B F' R F)//F2L-1
(R B' *R' B*)//F2L
(*B' R'* B R' B' R' F R' B R F' R2)//ZBLL

Solution: U' L2 R2 F R' B' R F' R B R B' R2 B R' F' R' F B' R2 B R D B2 D2 R2 D U2 F U (30)



Scramble: U' F2 D2 L2 U' B2 U F2 D' B2 F' D' U' B' F' D' L' U2 L


Spoiler



R' F2 R U' F'//2x2x2
(B' D2 B D2)//Pseudo 2x2x3
B' D// Fix pseudo+EO
L' B L' B L B2 L'//L5C

Skeleton: R' F2 R U' [1] F' B' D L' B L' B L B2 L' D2 [2] B' D2 B

[1]: [U R U', L]
[2]: [D R2 D' L]

Solution: R' F2 R2 U' L U R' U' L' F' B' D L' B L' B L B2 L' D' R2 D' L D R2 D' L' B' D2 B



Scramble: D2 R2 B D2 F D2 B U2 F2 D2 B D' R F' L' B2 F' U L2 D' R


Spoiler



L2 B//Square
B L' B L2//2x2x2+preserve pair
F2 U' F U2 R2//2x2x3
R U2 R' U' F L' U L//F2L
(B L U L' U' B' U')//L3C

Skeleton: B L' B L2 [1] F2 U' F U2 R' U2 R' U' F L' U L U B U L U' L' B2 L2

[1]: [R' B2 R, F2]

Solution: B L' B L2 R' B2 R F2 R' B2 R U' F U2 R' U2 R' U' F L' U L U B U L U' L' B2 L2 (30)



Scramble: R' F R' L' U' R' D' F' R' L B L2 F2 U2 B L2 F' R2 F2 U2 D2


Spoiler



(U2)//another pair
D' L' F' L' F2//2x2x2
(L D2 B2 D B)//2x2x3
F L F'//some EO
L2 B' L B//EO+blocks
D L D2 L2//2twisted

Skeleton: D' L' F' [1] L' F' L F' L2 B' L B D L D2 L2 B' D' B2 D2 L' U2

[1]: [F R F', L']

New skeleton: D' L' R F' L' F R' [2] F2 L F' L2 B' L B D L D2 L2 B' D' B2 D2 L' U2

[2]: [R' B2 R, F]

Solution: D' L' R F' L' F R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F L F' L2 B' L B D L D2 L2 B' D' B2 D2 L' U2 (30)



Scramble: U2 L D' R U' L2 B2 L B U2 R2 U F2 L2 U' F2 U B2 D R2


Spoiler



L' B2 L R' U' D' B2//2x2x2
R F'//2x2x3
(B R B')//pair
(F' R' F2 D2 F' R2 D)//L5C

Skeleton: L' B2 L R' [1] U' D' B2 R F' D' R2 F D2 F2 R F B R B'

[1]: [R D2 R', U']

New skeleton: L' B2 L D2 [2] R' U' R D2 R' D' B2 R F' D' R2 F D2 F2 R F B R B'

[2]: [D L2 D', R2]

Solution: L' B2 L D' L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R U' R D2 R' D' B2 R F' D' R2 F D2 F2 R F B R B' (29)


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## Jaysammey777 (Jun 5, 2017)

Classic City Shhhhh 2017 Round 1



Spoiler: Attempt 1: 27 Georgia State Record



Scramble: R' U' F U B2 U2 L2 D2 L2 F2 L2 F2 U' F' U2 L' B R' D' L' U B' D U' R' U' F

1x2x2: U D' L (3/3)
2x2x2: (F) (1/4)
2x2x3: R2 D R2 B (4/8)
F2L: (F D F2 R2 F) (5/13)
AB3C: B' D2 B D R D R' B' D B (10/23)
Skeleton/Cancellations: U D' L * R2 D R2 (B B') D2 B D R D R' B' D B F' R2 F2 D' (F' F') (-3/20)
Insert at *: L U2 L' D2 L U2 L' D2 (8/28)
Cancellations: U D' (L L) U2 L' D2 L U2 L' D2 R2 D R2 D2 B D R D R' B' D B F' R2 F2 D' F2 (-1/27)

Final Solution: U D' L2 U2 L' D2 L U2 L' D2 R2 D R2 D2 B D R D R' B' D B F' R2 F2 D' F2 27 HTM
Notes: Started insertion at about 53m, optimal was 26.





Spoiler: Attempt 2: 32



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D B2 L2 R2 D R2 U B2 R2 B D B2 R' F L U B2 F L' U2 R' U' F

Premove: B' (1/1)
2x2x3: L2 B F' U F D R' B2 U' B' (10/11)
F2L: F' R U R' L F L' F2 R U R' (11/22)
LL: B' U' R U B U' B' R' B U' (10/32)

Solution: L2 B F' U F D R' B2 U' B' F' R U R' L F L' F2 R U R' B' U' R U B U' B' R' B U' B'
Notes: had 44 with 57m and solved the cube with 2x2x3 and had this. Finished with 2s to spare.





Spoiler: Attempt 3: 31



Scramble: R' U' F L2 F2 R' D2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D2 R' U2 F L' F D' B2 U2 F U L' U2 R' U' F

2x2x2: U2 R' D R (4/4)
2x2x3: R D R' D2 B' F' D' F L2 (9/13)
AB3C: B' D B D B D B2 D B2 D' B' (11/24)
Skeleton/Cancellation: U2 R' D (R R) D R' D2 B' F' D' F L2 B' D B D B D B2 D B2 D' B' * (-1/23)

Insert at *: L U' L' D2 L U L' D2 (8/31)

Solution: U2 R' D R2 D R' D2 B' F' D' F L2 B' D B D B D B2 D B2 D' B' L U' L' D2 L U L' D2
Notes: Checked 4 times... Optimal... 



Mean 30.00

It's sad how much practice I've put in to have poor time management, 0 5 corner insertions, not optimal insertions, no EO, and very basic solves . But I am very happy with 77 in the World


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## Torch (Jun 5, 2017)

Here is my 29.33 official FMC mean from Classic City Shhhhh 2017, as well as my mom's 39.33 mean and my winning PyraFMC solve:



Spoiler: Raymond Goslow Solve 1



Scramble: R' U' F U B2 U2 L2 D2 L2 F2 L2 F2 U' F' U2 L' B R' D' L' U B' D U' R' U' F

U L F D' F2//2x2x2
B2 R' B'//F2L minus 3 corners
F' R' U' R U F R2//L5C

Skeleton: U L F D' F2 B2 R' [1] B' F' R' U' R U F R2

[1]: [L, B' R B]

New skeleton: U L F D' F2 B2 R' L B' R B L' [2] B' R' F' R' U' R U F R2

[2]: [L2, F R2 F']

Solution: U L F D' F2 B2 R' L B' R B L F R2 F' L2 F R2 F' B' R' F' R' U' R U F R2 (28)

Optimal for that skeleton is 25, but I'm bad at insertions and didn't have much time left





Spoiler:  Raymond Goslow Solve 2



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D B2 L2 R2 D R2 U B2 R2 B D B2 R' F L U B2 F L' U2 R' U' F

R//3 pairs
(D L)// 2x2x1
L2 B'// 2x2x2
R2 U' R U2//2x2x3
(R F R' F R F' R')//F2L-1
(F U F' U' *F2 U F2 U'*)//OLS
(*U F2 U' F'* U F2 D' F U' F' D F')//PLL

Solution: R L2 B' R2 U' R U2 F D' F U F' D F2 U' F' U F U' F' R F R' F' R F' R' L' D' (29)





Spoiler: Raymond Goslow Solve 3



Scramble: R' U' F L2 F2 R' D2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D2 R' U2 F L' F D' B2 U2 F U L' U2 R' U' F

U F2 U B'//2x2x2
D F D' F' L2//XXCross
F D' F' L' D' L D' R' D R//F2L
B' D' B' L B L' B D' B' D2 B D2//LL

Solution: U F2 U B' D F D' F' L2 F D' F' L' D' L D' R' D R B' D' B' L B L' B D' B' D2 B D2 (31)

I also found this skeleton, which has 27 optimal:

U F2 U B'//2x2x2
D L2 F2 L' F2//2x2x3
B' L' B2 D' B' *D*//F2L-1
*D'* L' D L2//L5C

Skeleton: U F2 U B' D L2 F2 L' F2 B' L' B2 D' B' L' D L2





Spoiler: Cari Goslow Solve 1



Scramble: R' U' F U B2 U2 L2 D2 L2 F2 L2 F2 U' F' U2 L' B R' D' L' U B' D U' R' U' F

U L B F D' F2//XCross
U' R U R D' R' D//2nd pair
(U R2 U' R U R U')//3rd pair
R' U' R' U//F2L
(B' D' R' D R *B*)//EO
(*B *R B' R B R2 B')//CO
(R2)//PLL

Solution: U L B F D' F2 U' R U R D' R' D R' U' R' U R2 B R2 B' R' B R' B2 R' D' R D B U R' U' R' U R2 U' (37)





Spoiler: Cari Goslow Solve 2



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D B2 L2 R2 D R2 U B2 R2 B D B2 R' F L U B2 F L' U2 R' U' F

B2 U' L2 R U' R2 B' U2//2x2x2
D F2 D2 F R' D//2x2x3
F *R2*//XXCross
(D' F2 D)//3rd pair
(F U F U')//F2L
*R* F U F' U' R'//EO
U F U' F U F2 *U'*//CO
*U* L' U R2 U' L U R2 U2 F2//PLL

Solution: B2 U' L2 R U' R2 B' U2 D F2 D2 F R' D F R' F U F' U' R' U F U' F U F2 L' U R2 U' L U R2 U2 F2 U F' U' F' D' F2 D (43)





Spoiler: Cari Goslow Solve 3



Scramble: R' U' F L2 F2 R' D2 B2 U2 B2 R2 D2 R' U2 F L' F D' B2 U2 F U L' U2 R' U' F

U2 R' D R//2x2x2
L2 U B' U' B2 U' L2 U D'//XXCross
(B' R' B2 R B2 L B L')//3rd pair
(D B2 D' B D' R D *R'*)//F2L+OLL
(*R' *U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 B)//PLL

Solution: U2 R' D R L2 U B' U' B2 U' L2 U D' B' R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R2 D' R' D B' D B2 D' L B' L' B2 R' B2 R B (38)





Spoiler: Pyraminx FMC



Scramble: B' L B' L' R B' R' L B L' R B' U R B R L' U l b

R L U *R'*//layer
*R *B' L B L' B R' B//2 flip
l' b'//tips

Solution: R L U B' L B L' B R' B l' b' (12)


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## T1_M0 (Jun 6, 2017)

Some solves, tips would also be nice


Spoiler: Helsinki Side Events 2017, #1



*Scramble: *R' U' F U2 L' F2 R D2 R' U2 L F2 U R2 B2 U B' D2 F2 L U2 L' D' R' U' F

Inverse:
D L R2 B' (2x2x2, premove R')
U' F2 U (2x2x3, premove F2)
Switch to normal:
D B' L B L2 (All but 3E & 4C)

Skeleton:
R F2 D @ B' L B L2 U' F2 U B R2 L' D'

Corner insertions:
@ D' L2 D R D' L2 ¤ D R' (2 moves cancel)
¤ L' U L D2 L' U' L D2 (2 moves cancel)

New skeleton:
R F2 L2 D R D' L U L D2 L' U' L D' % R' B' L B L2 U' F2 U B R2 L' D'
Edge insertion:
% D' L' U' D F D F' D' U L (1 move cancel)

*Result: 35*
After my 2x2x3, I had f2l-1 1 move away when switching to normal. My insertions suck.



I can't even remember my #2 solution, as I've not marked it clearly to my sketch paper. It was 42 moves, G-perm ending, really bad.



Spoiler: Helsinki Side Events 2017, #3



My worst moment so far, I dnf:ed by writing the last move in inverse.

*Scramble: *R' U' F R2 D' U' B2 D2 U' L2 F R' D' U L' D U' B R' B' R' U' R' U' F

L' U' L F2 (2x2x2)
U' R' U B2 U' R2 U R2 (2x2x3)
L' B L B' R' U2 R U' (F2L, premove U)
U B R B' R' U' (OLL, 2 moves cancel)
B' (AUF)
L U' L D2 L' U L D2 L2 (A-perm)

*Solution: *L' U' L F2 U' R' U B2 U' R2 U R2 L' B L B' R' U2 R B R B' R' U' B' L U' L D2 L' U L D2 L2 U
*Result: 35 (if premove is written right )*
Time ran out, by inserting the A-perm, it had been so much better. And yeah, I wrote the premove as U' to the end, and messed up execution when checking that everything is right.





Spoiler: ocf.berkeley.edu Weekly FMC, #180



*Scramble: *R' F L' D' U2 F2 R U2 L2 F' B' R F' U' L' B F2 L B' U

Normal:
U' F' U F' R' F R (2x2x2)
F L U' F U (pseudo 2x2x3)
Inverse:
F (premove for 2x2x3)
L' D L' (F2L-1)
Normal:
D2 B D2 B' (F2L)
B R D R' D' B' D (OLL, 2 moves cancel, PLL skip)

*Solution: *U' F' U F' R' F R F L U' F U D2 B D2 R D R' D' B' D L D' L F'
*Result: 25*
The absolute luckiest solve ever for me, PB by 8 moves. I'm seriously feeling like burying insertions and starting to use oll-pll exclusively (insertions if I find a U- or A-perm)


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## Hssandwich (Jun 7, 2017)

Tied PB mean, 24.00!

26: U D2 R' D B U F2 L' U2 R F2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D L2 U' F2 L2


Spoiler



(L D') //pseudo 222
F2 L' F //another 
R U2 //pseudo 223
(U F L') //F2L-1
(D F D' F2) //leave 3c+1twisted in 14

Skeleton: F2 L' F @ R U2 F2 D F' D' L F' U' D L'
@F2 R B' R' * F2 R B R' (3)
*D2 F U2 F' D2 F U2 F' (1)
26 moves
Unlucky insertions  Optimal was 25, but using nested insertions. Pretty lucky skeleton made up for it though.



23: F2 R F2 D2 R' U2 R2 F2 R B2 F' D2 F' R B U' L' F' D


Spoiler



(U F L') //square
R2 F2 D //WOAH PSEUDO F2L-1
(U' B2) //leave 3c4e

Skeleton: £ R2 F2 D B2 U L F' @ U'
£ U2 R L F B U2 F' B' L' R' (1)
@F' U B2 U' F U B2 U' (2)
23 Moves

Although the majority of this solve is complete luck, I'm slightly annoyed at the insertions. If I had done the 2-2 cycle F' L2 U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 F at £, which is 8 moves AND cancels a move, I would have got 21, tied PB, and a 23.33 mean 



23: R2 B D2 F2 R2 F D2 B F2 R F R2 U F2 L2 D F D' U2 L'


Spoiler



L' U //square
(R2 D2 F L' U' R' F2) //222 + roux block
(U2 L') L2 //F2L-1
U' B' U B U' B' D B' U B D' // finish!
23 Moves

Pretty lucky ending, effectively a niklas with 5 moves cancelling 




Also:
@Torch 
Skeleton: @ R' B' U R L //3 edges
@ U B U' B'
=9 moves + 2 tips = 11 moves


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## Cale S (Jun 8, 2017)

kind of funny solution for weekly German comp

R' U' F R2 D' B2 R2 D2 L2 F2 R2 F' R' U2 R2 B2 R U R' D2 F L U' R' U' F



Spoiler



(B' D2 B2) // Square
(F R F' U2 F U' F') // Layer
(F R' F' R F' U' F U) // L6E

U' F' U F R' F R U F' U2 F R' ^ F' B2 D2 B
^ = [R' B' R, S2]

U' F' U F R' F R U F' U2 F R2 B' R B2 @ F2 L' B L F D2 B
@ = D F' B R2 B' F D

Solution: U' F' U F R' F R U F' U2 F R2 B' R B2 D F' B R2 B' F D F2 L' B L F D2 B
29 moves


starting by building a layer is funny, and Insertion Finder not finding anything better is cool



did 2 means over the past few days, both were 29, 25, 32 in that order lol (I also have two official 28.67 means and one was 25, 32, 29)


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## Theo Leinad (Jun 9, 2017)

Hey people, 
I need a lot of help here... 
Is there a guide or something to have EO for all cases when you have F2L-1?
Can someone write down all the cases to have the cross on top oriented? 

Will appreciate that like TONS of cubies... 
How many cases would that be ?


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## Jaysammey777 (Jun 10, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> Hey people,
> I need a lot of help here...
> Is there a guide or something to have EO for all cases when you have F2L-1?
> Can someone write down all the cases to have the cross on top oriented?
> ...


You can either do it at the beginning of the solve, in the middle, or after doing 2x2x3. Some solves require different things. There's not real algorithms but rather just understanding how eo works. If you learn how Petrus does it then that would work for after the 2x2x3, if you learn how zz works then you can do eo at the beginning.


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## Theo Leinad (Jun 10, 2017)

Jaysammey777 said:


> You can either do it at the beginning of the solve, in the middle, or after doing 2x2x3. Some solves require different things. There's not real algorithms but rather just understanding how eo works. If you learn how Petrus does it then that would work for after the 2x2x3, if you learn how zz works then you can do eo at the beginning.


Hey sammey,
I do understand and k ow those cases, I just need help to develop this at the F2L-1 stage, would that be hard?

I thinks is easier this way, perhaps doing like petrus is good enough as well, but just want to minimize the cases...
Thank you


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## Theo Leinad (Jun 13, 2017)

BenThePerson1 said:


> Last weekend, I got an official 23 move solution at Please Be Quiet WPI
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F U' B2 R2 D' B2 D2 U' B2 L2 R D2 U2 B U2 B U L2 B R' U2 F R' U' F
> 
> ...



I got this far:

B' R B2 L D' R (2x2x2) x6
U2 F L B' U2 B U' F2 (F2L-1) x8
U F R U (F2L) x4
B U B' U' B U B' U' R' U' (L4C) x10

I'll check insertion finder, however, I don't know how to do this insertions yet 
18 moves for an F2L is good or bad ?...
I'm guessing 40 moves after insertion finder...
Any spots where I can improve this skeleton ?


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## T1_M0 (Jun 13, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> I got this far:
> 
> B' R B2 L D' R (2x2x2) x6
> U2 F L B' U2 B U' F2 (F2L-1) x8
> ...


If you finish your F2L with R' and then AUF with U, you end up with edge cycle which you can probably solve with fewer moves than the current 10. But yeah, insertion finder gave 33 with your ending and 32 with mine, so that's not very big difference (when doing, it just takes maybe more time to find a proper insertion). 

I wanna learn to find these 10-15 move cancellations which the insertion finder finds .


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## Hssandwich (Jun 13, 2017)

22 for the current Weekly FMC (181)

R F U' L U B' D2 L2 U2 B2 F' L2 R' B' L D' R' B' F2 U'


Spoiler



R U B' //square with inserted R move
D2 L' D R2 //2x2x2 + pairs
B' R B R' //square
U2 L2 U' B2 L * B2 L' //leave 3c

*L' B R B' L B R' B' (4 cancel)
=22 moves


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## T1_M0 (Jun 13, 2017)

Oh, nice. I was 2nd in last week's Weekly FMC. I'm always almost the last.


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## uesyuu (Jun 14, 2017)

Here is my 25.67 official FMC mean from Tachikawa FMC, and this mean is Asian record!!!


1st scramble: R' U' F U F2 R2 F2 R2 D F2 U2 B L F2 R2 B F2 R' B L D' L' U R' U' F
solution: U2 B2 R2 B2 U B2 U' B2 U' R' B' R' F' B' R' F2 R B R' F L' F R D F2 (25moves)



Spoiler



(start on inverse)
F2 D' F' L F2 // 222
R B R // EO+pair
(switch to normal)
U2 B2 R2 // 223
B2 U B2 U' B2 U' // L5C

skeleton: U2 B2 R2 B2 U B2 U' B2 U' R' B' R' F2 L' * F D F2
insert at *:[L F @ R' F' L' F R F']
insert at @:[B' R' F2 R B R' F2 R]




2nd scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 F L2 B U2 B2 F' L' D2 F' L' F D2 B' U2 R' D' B D' R' U' F
solution: F2 D' R' D2 B' R' D' R D R B' R2 B R2 B' R' B R B' D' R' D F L' R B' (26moves)



Spoiler



(start on inverse)
B R' L F' // pseudo 222
(switch to normal)
F2 // 222
D' R' D2 // 223
B' R' D' R D R B' // F2L-1
(switch to inverse)
D' R D // EO
B R' B' R B R2 B' R2 // WV skip




3rd scramble: R' U' F L B2 D2 R' B2 R' B2 F2 D2 U' L2 D2 L2 F' D2 B D' U2 B' U R' U' F
solution: B' L' B F' R' F' L F2 L' U2 R D R' U R D' B U' B' R' F' U F B U2 F' (26moves)



Spoiler



B' L' B // pseudo 222
F' R' F' L F2 L' // pseudo F2L-1
(switch to inverse)
F U2 B' // F2L-1
F' U' F R B U B' R' U // L3C

skeleton: B' L' B F' R' F' L F2 L' U' * R B U' B' R' F' U F B U2 F'
insert at *:[U' R D R' U R D' R']

Tomoaki Okayama found 22moves solution.
If I found it, this mean would be WR tie (24.33).


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## Parham Saeednia (Jun 14, 2017)

uesyuu said:


> Here is my 25.67 official FMC mean from Tachikawa FMC, and this mean is Asian record!!!
> 
> 
> 1st scramble: R' U' F U F2 R2 F2 R2 D F2 U2 B L F2 R2 B F2 R' B L D' L' U R' U' F
> ...


Congrats!!nice solves.


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## okayama (Jun 15, 2017)

uesyuu said:


> Here is my 25.67 official FMC mean from Tachikawa FMC, and this mean is Asian record!!!
> 
> 
> 1st scramble: R' U' F U F2 R2 F2 R2 D F2 U2 B L F2 R2 B F2 R' B L D' L' U R' U' F
> ...


Congrats uesyuu! I thought 1st and 2nd scrambles were hard, so finding sub 27-move solutions was awesome!
And here is my 22-move solution for the 3rd attempt.

Scramble: R' U' F L B2 D2 R' B2 R' B2 F2 D2 U' L2 D2 L2 F' D2 B D' U2 B' U R' U' F
Solution: B' L' B F2 U2 L F L' F' U2 F2 U F2 U' F2 U F U R' B U2 F' (22 moves)


Spoiler



(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B' L B

F2L minus 1 slot: F U2 B' R U2

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: U2 R' B U2 F'

F2L minus 1 slot: B' L' B
Orient edges: F2 U2 L F L'
All: F' U2 F2 U F2 U' F2 U F U'
Correction: U2 R' B U2 F'


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## Cale S (Jun 15, 2017)

69 move 4x4 FMC

http://bit.do/4fmc


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## Hssandwich (Jun 15, 2017)

A very weird 23:

L' U2 D2 R' D' L2 F R' F' U2 B' R2 L2 D2 B' R2 B U2 B
Inverse: B' U2 B' R2 B D2 L2 R2 B U2 F R F' L2 D R D2 U2 L

(D2 R' D') //EO
U2 B' U2 R' //2x2x2
(B' D2 L') //1x2x3
B L B' //leave 4c4e

Skeleton: U2 B' U2 R' @ B L B' L D2 B D R D2* 
*D2 L' D L D2 // solve 4e leaving 4c in 16
@R2 B L B' # R2 B L' B' //3c insertion *cancelling 7!*
# F L F' R2 F L' F' R2 //3c insertion cancelling 2
=23 moves


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## Jaysammey777 (Jun 15, 2017)

Tried the Tachikawa FMC scrambles and got my second best mean (1 more move on any scramble would have tied pb)

(In the order I did them)


Spoiler: Scramble 3: 26HTM



Scramble: R' U' F L B2 D2 R' B2 R' B2 F2 D2 U' L2 D2 L2 F' D2 B D' U2 B' U R' U' F
Pseduo 2x2x2: B' L' B (3/3)
F2L-1: (F U2 B' R U2) (5/8)
EO: (U2 L' U' L U') (5/13)
AB3T: (F R' F2 R F2) (5/18)
Skeleton: B' L' B F2 [3] R' F2 R F' U L' U L (U2 U2) R' B U2 F' [1] (-2/16)
Insertions:
[1]: -4 F U2 F' D F U2 F' D' (8/24)
[3]: -2 B L' B' R B L B' R' (8/32)
Cancellations: B' L' (B F2 B) L' B' R B L B' (R' R') F2 R F' U L' U L R' B (U2 F' F U2) F' D F U2 F' D' (-6/26)

Solution: B' L' B2 F2 L' B' R B L B' R2 F2 R F' U L' U L R' B F' D F U2 F' D'
26 HTM
Notes: F2l-1 5m, AB3T 15m, Done 30m, lucky to find 4 cancelled at end to start. Ended up w/ optimal





Spoiler: Scramble 1: 27 HTM



Scramble: R' U' F U F2 R2 F2 R2 D F2 U2 B L F2 R2 B F2 R' B L D' L' U R' U' F
1x2x2: (F2 D') (2/2)
1x2x3 + 2 Pairs: (B L') (2/4)
2x2x3: (F' B2 L F2) (4/8)
EO (+1x1x3): U R2 U' (3/11)
F2L-1: (B R B' R' B2) (5/16)
AB3C: (R B R B' R2) (5/21)
Skeleton: U R2 U' [2] R2 B R' B' R' B2 R B R' B' F2 L' B2 F L B' D F2
Insert @ [2]: -2 U F U' B U F' U' B' (8/29)
Cancellation: U R2 (U' U) F U' B U F' U' B' R2 B R' B' R' B2 R B R' B' F2 L' B2 F L B' D F2 (-2/27)

Solution: U R2 F U' B U F' U' B' R2 B R' B' R' B2 R B R' B' F2 L' B2 F L B' D F2
27 HTM
Notes: Skeleton in 31m, Done @45m, optimal





Spoiler: Scramble 2: 25 HTM



Scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 F L2 B U2 B2 F' L' D2 F' L' F D2 B' U2 R' D' B D' R' U' F
1x2x2: (B R') (2/2)
2 Pairs: B' (1/3)
2nd 1x2x2: (B' L' B') (3/6)
2x2x3: (F' R D' F2) (4/10)
F2L: (L' U' L' U' L') (5/15)
AB3C: (R B U B' U' R') (6/21)
Skeleton: B' R U B U' [2] B' R' L U L U L F2 D R' F B L B R B'
Insert @ [2]: L B' R' B L' B' R B (8/29)
Cancellation: B' R U B U' L B' R' B L' B' (R B B' R') L U L U L F2 D R' F B L B R B' (-4/25)

Solution: B' R U B U' L B' R' B L' B' L U L U L F2 D R' F B L B R B'
25 HTM
Notes: 19m Skeleton, 29m Solution, optimal


Mean: 26 HTM


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## obelisk477 (Jun 17, 2017)

My attempt at the Brno Open FMC scramble:

R' U' F U B2 U2 B2 L2 U B2 L2 D B2 U2 B R2 D B' R D' U' L B' U' R' U' F
Inv: F’ U R U B L’ U D R’ B D’ R2 B’ U2 B2 D’ L2 B2 U’ L2 B2 U2 B2 U’ F’ U R



Spoiler



(D2 B’ U2 L) // EO + pseudo 2x2x2 (4/4)
L // pseudo fix (1/5)
(F2 D’ F2 D2 F2) // 2x2x3 (5/10)
(D’ R’ D2 *R’*) // pseudo F2L-1 (4/14)
R2 // pseudo fix (1/15)
D R’ D2 R // F2L pair
D2 R’ D2 *R* // insert and solve edges to L3C 8/23

Skeleton: L R2 D R’ D2 R D2 R’ D2 *R2 *D2 R D F2 D2 ^ F2 D F2 L’ U2 B D2 // 22 (1 move cancels)

^ D’ B2 D F2 D’ B2 D F2 (4 moves cancel)

L R2 D R’ D2 R D2 R’ D2 R2 D2 R D F2 D B2 D F2 D’ B2 D2 F2 L’ U2 B D2 // 26 total


Would've tied first, not too bad


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## porkynator (Jun 17, 2017)

I have found a smooth 21 solution for the 3rd scramble of the German forum FMC (round started on the 9th of June). Everyone else seems to have missed it, so I am posting this here.
Scramble: R' U' F R2 B' L2 B U2 B2 F' D2 L F2 U' B2 U' F' L B L' F2 U' R' U' F 


Spoiler: Solution (21 HTM)



R2 F R' F //2x2x2 (4/4)
F U' F' //Pseudo 2x2x3 + pair, one move cancels (2/6)
U + B U2 R' U' R L' B' //All but 3 corners (8/14)
+ = U L U' R2 U L' U' R2 //3c (7/21)

It's the very first thing I tried; I have found this solution in about 4 minutes, insertion included


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## Hssandwich (Jun 17, 2017)

porkynator said:


> I have found a smooth 21 solution for the 3rd scramble of the German forum FMC (round started on the 9th of June). Everyone else seems to have missed it, so I am posting this here.
> Scramble: R' U' F R2 B' L2 B U2 B2 F' D2 L F2 U' B2 U' F' L B L' F2 U' R' U' F
> 
> 
> ...


Daniel Sheppard found this solution too, after I shared the scramble with him. He asked me to post his solutions after he does the other two scrambles.


Here are my solutions to the Tachikawa FMC scrambles, 24.67 mean:

#1 26 moves


Spoiler



R' U' F U F2 R2 F2 R2 D F2 U2 B L F2 R2 B F2 R' B L D' L' U R' U' F
F D2 B2 // pairs
R2 U' R2 //222
U' F L F2 //223
L U' B L B' L2 @ //F2L-1
F2 R' F' R //3c
@ B D' B' U' B D B' U (2 cancel)
=26 moves



#2 25


Spoiler



R' U' F U2 L2 F L2 B U2 B2 F' L' D2 F' L' F D2 B' U2 R' D' B D' R' U' F
(F') F' L D2 F' D2 //222
(B2 D) D //223
U R' U' R B' //F2L (leave 4c4e)

Skeleton: F' L D2 F' D' U @ R' U' R B' D' B2 F
@ B2 L' U' B' U L B2 //20 to 3c
New skeleton: F' L D2 F' D' U * B2 L' U' B' U L B2 R' U' R B' D' B2 F
*L F' L' B2 L F L' B2 (3 cancel)
=25 moves



#3 23


Spoiler



R' U' F L B2 D2 R' B2 R' B2 F2 D2 U' L2 D2 L2 F' D2 B D' U2 B' U R' U' F
B' L' B //pseudo 222
(F U2 B' R U2) //F2L-1 (same as Okayama)
(F2) //4c4e

Skeleton: B' L' F2 @ B U2 R' B U2 F' 
@B' D2 L2 D' F2 U R F R' U' F2 D L2 D2 B (1 cancel)
=23 moves


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## okayama (Jun 18, 2017)

Hssandwich said:


> Daniel Sheppard found this solution too, after I shared the scramble with him. He asked me to post his solutions after he does the other two scrambles.
> 
> 
> Here are my solutions to the Tachikawa FMC scrambles, 24.67 mean:
> ...


Cool insertions for 2nd and 3rd skeletons! How many minutes did you need to find them?


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## Hssandwich (Jun 18, 2017)

okayama said:


> Cool insertions for 2nd and 3rd skeletons! How many minutes did you need to find them?


Thanks! I normally take 15-20 minutes for a 4c4e insertion, but for the second scramble I didn't take as long because I found a way to easily reduce it to 3c


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## Cale S (Jun 18, 2017)

2 solves in a row with 2c2e insertions
German comp spoilers


Spoiler



R' U' F R2 F2 D F2 R2 D R2 U R' U' B2 R B L' U' F L' D2 F2 D R' U' F

(F) R' F2 D F' // EO + Square
(L U' R) // 2x2x2 + Square
L' R D' R' L B2 L2 // F2L - 1
(R' L D L' D' R D') // 2c2e

R' F2 D F' L' R D' R' L @ B2 L2 D R' D L D' L' U L' F'
@ = L2 B2 R D R' B2 L U' L U 

Solution: R' F2 D F' L' R D' R' L' B2 R D R' B2 L U' L U B2 L2 D R' D L D' L' U L' F'

29 Moves

R' U' F L2 U B2 R2 F2 U' L2 U F R' F D2 L2 B2 R' B' D2 R2 D R' U' F

F' U B (B2) // 2x2x2
(R2 U' F') // EO
R U R2 F2 // 2x2x3
(R2 U2 R2) // F2L - 1
(U F' U' F U) // 2c2e

F' U B R @ U R2 F2 U' F' U F U' R2 U2 R2 F U R2 B2
@ = R' F' R2 U' R' U R' F R U F' U'

Solution: F' U B F' R2 U' R' U R' F R U F' R2 F2 U' F' U F U' R2 U2 R2 F U R2 B2

27 Moves


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## Hssandwich (Jun 18, 2017)

Absolutely crazy, but 22.33 Mean of 3! Smashed my old PB by 3 moves total (was 23.33).

Solve #1: 20
U2 L2 B R' L2 D' B U' L' F2 U L2 F2 B2 D R2 U' F2 D' F2


Spoiler



R D2 F R' //222
([L] F2 L D') //223 (Inserted L move)
D' L' D L' F L' //F2L
L F L D' L' D F' L' F2 //LL 

Solution: R D2 F R' D' L' D L' F2 L D' L' D F' L' F2 D L' F2 L' (20)

Very lucky solve, but not a ridiculously easy scramble at first glance. This is also my PB 



Solve #2: 24
D2 B2 R2 D L2 R2 U' B L' D' L U2 B' L U L2 F L U


Spoiler



(U) //2 pairs
(R2 F' D) //square
R2 D2 R F R // 2x2x3
B' //10 moves to 4c4e

Skeleton: R2 D2 @ R F R B' D' F R2 U'
@ R' D L2 U R U' B2 L' B2 U R' U' L2 D' R (1 move cancels)

Solution: R2 D2 R' D L2 U R U' B2 L' B2 U R' U' L2 D' R2 F R B' D' F R2 U' (24)

Unfortunately not particularly lucky insertions, but still a good solve nonetheless.



Solve #3: 23
B2 L B2 U2 R B2 R U2 R' D2 F' D' L2 B L2 R' U' B' D2 L2


Spoiler



D' F L' //square
(U2 B2) //2 more 
(F U2 B') //2x2x2+loads of stuff
(D2 R' D2) //F2L-1
R2 D2 B' D' B D' //16 to 4e

Skeleton: D' F L' R2 D2 B' D' B D R D2 B U2 B2 @ F' U2
@ R2 B2 D F2 L2 B2 U F2 (1 cancel)

Solution: D' F L' R2 D2 B' D' B D R D2 B U2 B2 R2 B2 D F2 L2 B2 U F U2 (23)
Optimal insertions using 1 cycle, but IF can do some godly stuff and cancel 14 on a different 4e alg+an edge comm 



Overall very happy with this, no 'standard' insertions in the lot


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## obelisk477 (Jun 18, 2017)

How short should your skeleton be if you're going to attempt a 4c4e insertion and have it be worth it?


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## Hssandwich (Jun 18, 2017)

obelisk477 said:


> How short should your skeleton be if you're going to attempt a 4c4e insertion and have it be worth it?


I'll normally only use it if it's <13, but I sometimes use it if it's over that if I can't find anything else. I think it normally takes 15-17 moves to actually insert, so with a <13 skeleton it should be sub-30.


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## obelisk477 (Jun 19, 2017)

Hssandwich said:


> I'll normally only use it if it's <13, but I sometimes use it if it's over that if I can't find anything else. I think it normally takes 15-17 moves to actually insert, so with a <13 skeleton it should be sub-30.



Sounds about right, I tried my first 4c4e today with an 18 move skeleton just to have actually done it, and ended up with 35 total.


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## Rcuber123 (Jun 20, 2017)

Last week's weekly FMC:
22 HTM tied PB single and tied 1st place ( @Hssandwich great minds think alike)

Scramble: R F U' L U B' D2 L2 U2 B2 F' L2 R' B' L D' R' B' F2 U'

R / (1/1) inserted move
U B' / (2/3) 221 block
D2 L' D R2 / (4/7) 222 + blocks
B' R B R' / (4/11) 221 block
U2 L2 U' / (3/14) F2L-1
B2 # L B2 L' / (4/18) ab3c

Insert at #: B R B' L B R' B' L' (8-4=4/22)

Other solutions/skeletons:

R U B' D2 L' D R2 / (7/7) same as final solution
U2 F' L F L U' / (6/13) ab5c
IF says optimal is 24

R U B' D2 L' D R2 B' R B R' U2 L2 / (13/13) same as final solution
B2 L B2 L' U' / (5/18) ab3c
IF says optimal is 23

R U B' D2 L' D R2 B' R B R' U2 L2 B2 L B2 / (16/16) same as previous skeleton
U' # L' / (2/18) all but block commutater
Insert at #: U B' L' B U' B' L B (8-3=5/23)


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## obelisk477 (Jun 28, 2017)

Not the best result, but it was my first time trying three insertions and I saw it had the chance to be sub-30 so I went for it. It was 14 moves to L5C, but the corners were a 3 pure cycle and two twisted corners. Anyhow, it's in the spoiler. 11 moves canceled all in all, pretty happy with it.



Spoiler



D' U' R2 B2 D F2 U' R2 F2 U' B' R U B U' B2 L' U' B'
Inv: (B U L B2 U B’ U’ R’ B U F2 R2 U F2 D’ B2 R2 U D)

U L’ // p2x2x2 (2/2)
(U2) // correction (1/3)
B’ D B R D2 *R’ *// 2x2x3 (6/9)
*R’* D’ R // 1x2x2 block (3/12)
F2 D’ F2 // solve edges to L5C (3/15)

U L’ B’ @ D B R D2 R2 D’ R F2 D’ F2 U2 (14 – 1 move cancels on inv)

@ R U’ R’ D R U R’ D’ (2 moves cancel)

New skele: U L’ & B’ R U’ R’ D R U R’ B R D2 R2 D’ R F2 D’ F2 U2

& L B’ R B L’ B’ R’ B (6 moves cancel)

Newer skele: U B’ R B L’ B’ U’ R’ D R U R’ B R D2 R2 D’ % R F2 D’ F2 U2

% U R D2 R’ U’ R D2 R’ (2 moves cancel)

Final: U B’ R B L’ B’ U’ R’ D R U R’ B R D2 R2 D’ U R D2 R’ U’ R D2 F2 D’ F2 U2 (28)


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## Cale S (Jun 28, 2017)

interesting 24 on the daily /r/cubers scramble, lots of reverse NISS insertions

U2 F' L F L2 U L D' B U2 B' D B' R B2 L B' R' F2 L2


Spoiler



L2 F2 // 2x2x2
(U B) B // 2x2x3 minus corner
L F' L2 F // 3e6c

L2 @ F2 B L F' L2 F B' U'
@ = L' R' F' R' F L R2 // to 3e3c

L R' F' R' F L R2 F2 B L % F' L2 ^ F B' U'
^ = B' F' R B' R' B2 F // to L3C
% = [L' B L, F]

Solution: L R' F' R' F L R2 F2 B2 L F L' B' L F2 L2 B' F' R B' R' B F2 U'
24 moves



doing lots of practice before Nationals, currently at a 27.60 avg12


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## Ranzha (Jun 29, 2017)

Ohai, I got a 23 at 6.25 Bay Area.
Try this scramble out!

1. R' U' F U2 F2 D2 F U2 F' L2 F' L2 F2 L2 D R D2 B U L' R2 U2 F2 U' R' U' F


Spoiler: 23



Movecount - timestamp

24 moves - 15:17
D R D' U2 // 223
(F' D F' D') // F2L-1, edges bad
L F
L2 F'
L F L U L U'
L U' F U F2 L' // WTF???

23 moves - 25:45
D2 R D2 U2 // 223
(F U L U')
F' L2 F
(U' F U F)
(U L2 U' L2 U)
(L2 U' F' L) // WTF

26 moves - 43:15
D R D' U' L' U' // 223
L F' D F D'
D' L2 D2 F D'
L2 U L (1) U' L2 // AB3C (20)
(1): [L2, U R U'] // 8-2


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## Hssandwich (Jun 30, 2017)

Did 19 solves in 3 days 
27, 29, 27, 24, 25, 25, 26, 28, 28, 27, DNF, 28, 28, 29, 27, 23, 24, 25 = 26.56 mean
All were done with a time limit, and I'm pretty happy with the results 

I thought this scramble (1st from Brasileiro 2017) was really nice and relaxing. It was hard to find a bad start  If you're looking for a nice scramble, but not stupidly easy, then I'd recommend this.
R' U' F L2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 U F2 L2 U2 F' L2 R F' U2 R D2 F2 L' B' F R' U' F

My solutions (24 & 23)


Spoiler



U R U2 R' //pseudo 222
L & U D //square
B' L2 (L') //F2L-1
D2 B' D F' D B D' F //18 to 3c

& R B' R' F R B R' F' (24 moves)

(B L B) //EO
(L2 B2) //square
(L2 B2 D' L2) //2x2x3
R U' R' U' F2 R U2 R' U' F2 //19 to 3c

Skeleton: R U' R' @ U' F2 R U2 R' U' F2 L2 D B2 L2 B2 L2 B' L' B'
@ B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U
=23 moves


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## Jaysammey777 (Jul 1, 2017)

woot my first 23!
US Nats Practice Scramble 1 (6/30/17)
23 HTM
Scramble: D2 R U2 L2 U2 R2 F2 L' U2 D' L2 D' R2 B L' B' F2 L'


Spoiler



2x2x2: B L2 B (3/3)
Psuedo-2x2x3: U2 R2 (2/5)
Fix + EO: (U2 R' L' U' L) (5/10)
AB5C: (F2 U F2 U) (4/14)
Skeleton: B L2 B U2 [3] R2 U' F2 U' F2 [6] L' U L R U2
Insert @ [3] 234 -1 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R (8/22)
Insert @ [6] 512 -6 U R U' L' U R' U' L (8/30)
Cancellations: B L2 B U2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 (R R2) U' F2 U' F2 U R U' L' U (R' U' L L' U L R) U2 (-7/23)
Solution: B L2 B U2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' U' F2 U' F2 U R U' L' U L R U2
23 HTM
Notes: 18 to 3T in 4m. 27HTM with that @ 20m. This skeleton (5C) found @ 40m. Finished with 20 seconds to spare.


Spoiler: 3T Solution



2x2x2: B L2 B (3/3)
Square: U2 (1/4)
F2L-1: (B U B' U2 R' F2) (6/10)
AB3T: (R U2 R' F' U F U' R2) (8/18)
Skeleton: B L2 B U2 R2 U F' U' [4] F R U2 R' F2 R U2 B U' B' [1]
Insert @ 1: -6 B U B' D2 B U' B' U2 (8/26)
Insert @ 4: -1 L B2 L' F2 L B2 L' F2






Edit: So ummm:
US Nats Practice Scramble 2
26 HTM
Scramble: R2 U2 F R' D R2 B2 L' U' F2 L' B2 R2 U2 F2 L' F2 U2


Spoiler



Square: (R2 B') (2/2)
2 Squares: R2 (1/3)
2x2x2: (B' U2) (2/5)
Solve Front Edges: (R D R2 F2) (4/9)
AB6C: (R' D F D2 F' D2 R') (7/16)
Skeleton: R D2 F D2 F' D' R [3] F2 R2 D' R' U2 B R2 B R2
Insert @ [3]: 123 -2 R F' L' F R' [5] F' L F (8/24)
Insert @ [5]: ABC -4 L B2 L' F' L B2 L' F (8/32)
Cancellations: R D2 F D2 F' D' (R R) F' L' F R' L B2 L' F' L B2 (L' F F' L) (F F2) R2 D' R' U2 B R2 B R2 (-6/26)
Solution: R D2 F D2 F' D' R2 F' L' F R' L B2 L' F' L B2 F' R2 D' R' U2 B R2 B R2
26 HTM
Notes: Skeleton in 36m. Done @ 60m


US Nats Practice Scramble 3:
25 HTM
Scramble: U2 F2 L' U2 B2 L' B2 U2 R U2 R2 D' B' F2 D2 R U2 L' U' F' L'


Spoiler



Square: B2 (1/1)
Roux Block: R2 F U' R F' (5/6)
Solve 2x2x3: F' U2 R U' B2 R' U' F (8/14)
AB5C: L U' (2/16)
Skeleton: B2 R2 F U' R (F' F') U2 R [6] U' B2 R' [7] U' F L U' (-1/15)
Insert @ [6]: 234 -3 F2 U' B' U F2 U' B U (8/23)
Insert @ [7]: 512 -3 B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U (8/310
Cancellation: B2 R2 F U' R F2 U2 R F2 U' B' U F2 U' (B U U' B2) R' B U' F2 U B' U' (F2 U U' F) L U' (-6/25)
Solution: B2 R2 F U' R F2 U2 R F2 U' B' U F2 U' B' R' B U' F2 U B' U' F' L U'
25 HTM
Notes: 16m Skeleton, done @ 44m. 24.67 Mean


24.67 Mean?!?


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## obelisk477 (Jul 1, 2017)

Jaysammey777 said:


> woot my first 23!
> US Nats Practice Scramble 1 (6/30/17)
> 23 HTM
> Scramble: D2 R U2 L2 U2 R2 F2 L' U2 D' L2 D' R2 B L' B' F2 L'
> ...


Fight me at nats


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## Jaysammey777 (Jul 1, 2017)

obelisk477 said:


> Fight me at nats


19 Sub-30's in a row since Classic City Shhhhh, Hopefully I can maintain that consistency at Nats


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## jpbrc (Jul 2, 2017)

Hssandwich said:


> Did 19 solves in 3 days
> 27, 29, 27, 24, 25, 25, 26, 28, 28, 27, DNF, 28, 28, 29, 27, 23, 24, 25 = 26.56 mean
> All were done with a time limit, and I'm pretty happy with the results
> 
> [/spoiler]



Nice solution! Did you try the third scramble from brasileiro 2017? I couldn't find anything good, just a l5c in 13 but with 2 corners flipped.


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## Hssandwich (Jul 3, 2017)

jpbrc said:


> Nice solution! Did you try the third scramble from brasileiro 2017? I couldn't find anything good, just a l5c in 13 but with 2 corners flipped.


Yup  I did all three scrambles:

#3 R' U' F D' F2 U L2 U B2 U' L2 D2 F R' B' L F' R D U' R' B2 F2 U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



B (B L) // square
F2 L' F //EO
L U' R U' //two squares
D' B2 //leave 5c2e

Skeleton: B F2 & L' F L U' R U' D' B2 @ L' B'
@B R' B' R2 F B R' B' R & F' R2 (1 cancel)
&R' U R D2 R' U' R D2 (2 cancel)
=28 moves

I also found 18 to 5c that also ended in 28, but this is more interesting 



And #2 too
R' U' F U R2 D2 R2 B2 D L2 U' L2 U2 B' L' B2 D U2 B F2 L' D2 U B R' U' F


Spoiler



U D' R2 F //EO
U2 //pseudo 2x2x2
(D' L') D2 //2x2x3
U F2 U' //F2L-1
(R' F) F //F2L
F R D R' D' F' //17 to 3c 

U D' @ R2 F D2 U' F2 U' F2 R D R' D' F2 R L D
@ U R2 U' L U R2 U' L'
=24 moves



23, 24, 28 = 25.00 mo3

Shame about your last solve, it was a tricky scramble for sure. Do you have your solutions to the first and second scrambles?


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## obelisk477 (Jul 3, 2017)

If you're doing 3c3e insertions, is it generally better to look for edge insertions or corner insertions first?


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## Cale S (Jul 3, 2017)

obelisk477 said:


> If you're doing 3c3e insertions, is it generally better to look for edge insertions or corner insertions first?



I usually use reverse NISS so I can see if there are any places I can insert 4-6 movers (like F' U R U' R' F) to L3C, and you can also see both the edge and corner cycles at the same time


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## Neuro (Jul 7, 2017)

I can't find an efficient solution to this but I'm positive this can be solved in under 30 moves. I got a really lucky scramble that got me to L4C in 15 moves but I can't seem to figure it out 

D2 F2 L2 R2 D' L2 R2 F2 U' L2 U B' D' R F L U2 R F2 D2

y2 R' D2 R F B u U2 B U B2 y2//F2L-1 (10/10)
R B U2 B' R'//L4C Setup (5/15)


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## guysensei1 (Jul 7, 2017)

Neuro said:


> I can't find an efficient solution to this but I'm positive this can be solved in under 30 moves. I got a really lucky scramble that got me to L4C in 15 moves but I can't seem to figure it out
> 
> D2 F2 L2 R2 D' L2 R2 F2 U' L2 U B' D' R F L U2 R F2 D2
> 
> ...


Insert 2 corner commutators in your skeleton to solve the 4C.

Insertion finder gives 25 as optimal btw


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## Cale S (Jul 8, 2017)

First scramble of US Nationals 2017

R' U' F R2 F2 R2 F2 U F2 L R U' B2 U' R' B' F L F2 D B' R' U' F

my solution: 
(D2) // 2 pairs
(R) B2 // square
(U' B' D) // 2x2x2
(L2 F U) // F2L - 1 without some corners
L' U L2 U' // 3e6c

B2 L' U L2 @ U2 F' ^ L2 D' B U R' D2
@ = U' D2 L U L' D2 // 18 to 5c
^ = [F D F', U'] // cancels 3

B2 L' U L2 U' D2 L U L' D' U2 % F' U' F D' F' U L2 D' B U R' D2 
% = [U B U', F2] // cancels 2

Solution: B2 L' U L2 U' D2 L U L' D' U' B U' F2 U B' U' F U' F D' F' U L2 D' B U R' D2 (29)


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## ChrisCuber123 (Jul 9, 2017)

Nats stuff:
1st scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 R2 F2 U F2 L R U' B2 U' R' B' F L F2 D B' R' U' F
2nd scramble: R' U' F D' L2 F2 L2 D' F2 D' R2 U2 B' R U' B F R D2 B' F D B' R' U' F
3rd scramble: R' U' F D2 F' L2 D2 F2 D2 U2 B' U2 B' U' R D' B' L U' F D R2 D U2 R' U' F

my solutions:
scramble 1:


Spoiler



(R') F L' U L // EO
U2 R2 // square
F' U' F' U F' B // 2x2x3
D R2 // F2L-1 missing a corner
B' D' B D' B' D B D2 // fml shitty L4C skeleton
skele: F L' U L U2 R2 F' U' F' * U ^ F' B D R2 B' D' B D' B' D B D2 R
*: F U F' D2 F U' F' D2 (cancels 5)
^: D B2 D' F' D B2 D' F (cancels 3)
final solution: F L' U L U2 R2 F2 D2 F U' F' D' U B2 D' F' D B2 D' B D R2 B' D' B D' B' D B D2 R (31)



scramble 2:


Spoiler



B2 L' F B' // EO
U F2 U // 2x2x2
D' U R' U' R2 // 11 to 3e6c
skeleton: B2 L' % F B' U * F2 U2 D' R' U' R2
*: B2 F D' R D R' B2 ^ F' // solves edges+corner, cancels 1, 18 to 5c
^: D2 F U2 F' D2 F U2 F' // cancels 4
%: L2 F' R F L2 F' R' F // cancels 2
final solution: B2 L F' R F L2 F' R' F2 B' U B2 F D' R D R' B2 D2 F U2 F' D2 F D' R' U' R2 (28)



scramble 3:


Spoiler



L' B R' // EO
U' R2 // square
(R2) // square
(D F2 L2 F2 B) // ps2x2x3
(R2 D R2 D2) // psF2L-1
(F' R2 F R2 F) // L4C
skeleton: L' ^ B R' U' R2 F' R2 F' R2 * F D2 R2 D' R2 B' F2 L2 F2 D' R2
*: D B' D' F D B D' F'
^: L U2 L' D2 L U2 L' D2
final solution: U2 L' D2 L U2 L' D2 B R' U' R2 F' R2 F' R2 D B' D' F D B D R2 D' R2 B' F2 L2 F2 D' R2 (31)



31, 28, 31 = 30.00 mean rip, tied with Cale for both single and mean

I somehow missed a 6 move 2x2x3 on inverse on the 3rd solve, if I had seen that I probably would have podiumed


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## Emilien (Jul 9, 2017)

28 on the first, DNF on the second .. Nothing interesting .. But Roux is amazing.



Spoiler



R' U' F D2 F' L2 D2 F2 D2 U2 B' U2 B' U' R D' B' L U' F D R2 D U2 R' U' F

L' B R' // EO (3)
U' R2 // Block (2)
(R2) // Blocks (1)
B' D' F' B D B' D2 // Master Roux(7)

Skel : L' B R' U' R2 B' D' B + F' D B' D2 - R2 (13)

+ B L2 F B' U2 F' (6-2 = 4)
- D2 F B' L2 F' B (6-3 = 3)

Solution : L' B R' U' R2 B' D' B2 L2 F B' U2 F2 D B2 F L2 F' B R2 (20)

20 HTM


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## ChrisCuber123 (Jul 10, 2017)

Emilien said:


> 28 on the first, DNF on the second .. Nothing interesting .. But Roux is amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice solution, you used the same start as me but used it well! could you post your solution for the first also? I thought that scramble was pretty hard, as did other people


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## Mark Boyanowski (Jul 11, 2017)

I finally have some time to sit down and post my solutions from US Nationals 2017. I had a ton of fun at this competition, and while some of my results weren't quite what I wanted, two wins at a major competition is a big achievement for me. Congratulations to Walker Welch and Raymond Goslow for placing 2nd and 3rd respectively, and I know that Walker deserves this win a lot more than I do  Anyway, here are my solutions:

Scramble 1: R' U' F R2 F2 R2 F2 U F2 L R U' B2 U' R' B' F L F2 D B' R' U' F


Spoiler



(D2) // 2 pairs
(R B L2 D B2) // 2x2x2
(B L2 B' U) U' // 2x2x3
L' // pair
F' L // set up BOY pair

From this point, I explored lots of options. I'll show the two that led somewhere:

D' L D // F2L -1
F2 U L' U' L // L3E

In total this is 21 to L3E. I did the insertions for a safety 28 move solution. After writing that down, I found this (continuing from the "set up BOY pair" step):

F U' F U // place BO edge with the intention of building the BOW block
L' // I decide instead to go for the BOY block to preserve the YRG pair
F' L' F L // F2L -1. Inserting the pair with F2 L F2 L' gives 26 to L3C (optimal 31), so I instead did the following:
L' U L U' // F2L
U L' U2 R U2 L U2 R' U // Finish (standard OLL alg)

Final(26): U' L' F' L F U' F U L' F' L' F U' R U2 L U2 R' B L2 B D' L2 B' R' D2

Obviously the final solution is very lucky, involving a skip and tons of cancelled moves. But at least I had the 28 as a backup in case this crazy skip didn't happen 



Scramble 2: R' U' F D' L2 F2 L2 D' F2 D' R2 U2 B' R U' B F R D2 B' F D B' R' U' F


Spoiler



(R' U') // 2x2x1
L' B F U B2 U F2 // 2x2x3
F L' F' // EO
L' D L D' // 2x2x3 + 2x2x1
L' D2 L' D' L2 // L4C

Skeleton: L' F @ B U B2 U F' L' F' L' D L D' L' D2 L' D' L2 U R

@ = D B U B' # D' B U' B'
# = B' D' F D B D' F' D

Final(28): L' F D B U B2 D' F D B D' F' B' U F' L' F' L' D L D' L' D2 L' D' L2 U R



Scramble 3: R' U' F D2 F' L2 D2 F2 D2 U2 B' U2 B' U' R D' B' L U' F D R2 D U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(U) // pair
(L' B F2 L D') // 2x2x3

I first found this continuation:

(F' L' F2 U' F') // EO
(U L2) // F2L -1
(U2 L' U' L U) // L5C

I finished the insertions for a 30 (and missed incredibly obvious insertions for a 29 according to IF), then decided to mess around with inserting random moves and finishing the 2x2x3 differently. I found this with about 5 minutes remaining:

(U) // pair
(L' B F2 L2 F L' F' D') // 2x2x3 (not sure if I was trying to connect the YO edge with the O center or just trying moving the pair out of the way before finishing the 2x2x3)
(L' U L') // F2L -1 missing a corner
(U' L' U' L U L' U L U2) // L3C

Skeleton: U2 L' U' L U' L' U L U @ L U' L D F L F' L2 F2 B' L U'

@ = D L' U2 L D' L' U2 L

Final(28): U2 L' U' L U' L' U L U D L' U2 L D' L' U2 L2 U' L D F L F' L2 F2 B' L U'

IF shows that I actually missed optimal, which I was shocked to see on 3 corners. I think this was due to being exhausted during this attempt, and also partly due to thinking too much about the stakes of the attempt and not focusing.


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## YouCubing (Jul 13, 2017)

first time using a premove, cool
here
U' F2 D2 L' F2 R B2 L B2 R2 U2 R' U' B' D2 L' F' L' D' R' B2

D' L'
F' U2 F U2 R B'
U2 R U R' B' R B
R' U' R U' R B' R' B
R' F R F' U R U R' U2 F R' F' R U D


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## porkynator (Jul 13, 2017)

My solves @Worlds

Scramble #1: R' U' F U2 L2 F' R2 F U2 F L2 D R' U L2 F2 L' U B' R2 U' B2 F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



Solution: L' U2 R' D R U' R' D' F' R D' R' B D R' F R B2 R' F' R B' U L2 B' D' B' D2 B' D' R2 (31)

L' U * D' R' //EO (4/4)
B D & B U L2 //2x2x2 (5/9)
B' D' B' D2 B' D' R2 //All but 7 pieces (7/16)

* = + R' F' R //All but 4 corners (3/19)
+ = U R' D R U' R' D' R //3c (5/24)
& = R' F R B2 R' F' R B2 //3c (7/31)



Scramble #2: R' U' F D' L2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F2 R B R2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 R2 D F2 U' R' U' F


Spoiler



Solution: ??? (25)

D L2 //2x2x1 (2/2)
F D //Pseudo 2x2x2 + pair (2/4)
B2 R2 D2 //2x2x3 (3/7)
R U' R2 F' R U //F2L-1 (6/13)
R' F R //All but 4 corners (3/16)

I can't find insertions on my sheet, no idea why. Ended up with a 25.



Scramble #3: R' U' F U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D U' F2 R' B D' F' U' L R D F2 U F' R' U' F


Spoiler



Solution: R2 D2 R2 D' B2 D B2 D L' F L B2 L' F' L D2 L B' F D U' R' U' B2 L2 U2 (26)

I used "skew centers", i.e. inserted M' E M E' at some point. If you this at the beginning, you see a nice 2x2x2 block ready there. I don't know what the best way to follow this solve i, it took a lot of rewriting taking into account the movement of the centers.

(U2 L2 B2 U) //3 pairs (4/4)
R2 D2 R2 //blocks (3/7)
(L B') //2x2x3 + square (2/9)
(L2 U2 L' U2 L' U2 L) //All but 3 corners (and centers) (7/16)

Skeleton: U2 L2 B2 U L + B' L2 * U2 L' U2 L' U2 L B2 L2 B2
* = F' D F U2 F' D' F U2 //3c (6/22)
+ = M' E M E' //Centers (4/26)



31, 25, 26 = 27.33 Mo3

Hopefully enough for podium. Don't be shy, share your solves!


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## ChrisCuber123 (Jul 14, 2017)

My Worlds solutions:
Scramble 1: R' U' F U2 L2 F' R2 F U2 F L2 D R' U L2 F2 L' U B' R2U' B2 F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



Solution: DNS

overslept :/



Scramble #2: R' U' F D' L2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F2 R B R2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 R2 D F2 U' R' U' F


Spoiler



Solution: U B2 D U' F U' R2 F2 L' U B' R2 B L B' R2 U F' U' B U F2 U F D' (25)

U B2 D (D) // 2x2x2
U' F U' R2 // 2x2x3
(F' U' F') // EO+square
(U' L' U' L F2) // 16 to L4C
skeleton: U B2 D U' F U' R2 F2 L' U L ^ * U F U F D'
*: B' U F' U' B U F U'
^: L' B' R2 B L B' R2 B



Scramble #3: R' U' F U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D U' F2 R' B D' F' U' L R D F2 U F' R' U' F


Spoiler



Solution: some shitty 33

my start:
B2 D2 L' B F // EO+4 pairs

couldn't find anything good off of this within the hour, settled for 33 on 27 to 3c :/



DNS, 25, 33 = DNF mean

Kinda annoyed that I missed the first attempt, but my last attempt was bad anyway so I got less annoyed. Satisfied with the single though


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## Emilien (Jul 14, 2017)

1# R' U' F U2 L2 F' R2 F U2 F L2 D R' U L2 F2 L' U B' R2 U' B2 F2 R' U' F

ZZ solution 



Spoiler



L' U D' R B' U' // EO Line Pairs (6)
(L2 F L2 B D2) // Blocks (5)
L2 F' L2 // Blocks (3)
(B2 D B' D' F D) // 3C (6)

Skel : L' U D' + R B' U' L2 F' L2 D' F' D B D' B2 D2 B' L2 F' L2

+ U2 R' D R U2 R' D' R (8-2=6)

26 HTM


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## Prakhar (Jul 14, 2017)

I am having a bit trouble doing twisted double swap for last 4 corner insertions. Can anyone provide any example solve in which l4c inserted is a twisted double swap. Also, please tell what sticker is put where for the insertions.


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## bubbagrub (Jul 17, 2017)

My Worlds solutions:

32, 32, 32 = 32 mean, and placed 32nd. 

Scramble 1: R' U' F U2 L2 F' R2 F U2 F L2 D R' U L2 F2 L' U B' R2 U' B2 F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



U' L2 U R' U' L2 U D L' U2 B' U' D2 R D L B' R' B L' B D2 R' D2 R D2 R D2 F' R F R

** R' D L' U2 B' U' // 222 (6/6)
D2 R D B' * R' B2 // 223 (6/12)
D2 R' D2 R D2 R D2 // pf2l less an edge and a pair, plus a square
F' R F R // L4C (4/23)

Insert at *:
B L B' R' B L' B' R (3/26)

Insert at **:
U' L2 U R' U' L2 U R (6/32)



Scramble 2: R' U' F D' L2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F2 R B R2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 R2 D F2 U' R' U' F


Spoiler



U B2 L' U' L D' L' U L D' L' D' R2 D L D' U' R2 U R2 U' R B' R B U R U' F U' R2 D'

U B2 ** D * // p222 (3/3)
(D R2 U F') // 223 (4/7)
(U) // F2L less 1 corner and 1 pair (1/8)
R2 U' R2 U R2 U' R B' R B U R // L5C (12/20)

Insert at *:
D L' D' R2 D L D' R2 (5/25)

Insert at **:
L' U' L D' L' U L D (7/32)



Scramble 3: R' U' F U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D U' F2 R' B D' F' U' L R D F2 U F' R' U' F


Spoiler



R D L D B2 L2 D' B D F D' B' D F B2 D' U' R U R' D B' R' D F' R D2 F D R' D' R
R D L D B2 L2 ** B // 222 (7/7)
F2 * R' D F' R // 223 (5/12)
D2 // F2L less one corner and one pair (1/13)
F D R' D' R // L3E + L4C (5/18)

Insert at *:
B D' U' R U R' D B' // fixes 3 edges + 1 corner, leaving 3 corners (8/26)

Insert at **:
D' B D F D' B' D F' (6/32)


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## Hssandwich (Jul 17, 2017)

#1: R' U' F U2 L2 F' R2 F U2 F L2 D R' U L2 F2 L' U B' R2 U' B2 F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(B' L U' F') //EO
U L' U2 D2 F2 //222
R' U2 R //223
L2 U' L2 U // leave 3e4c

U L' U2 D2 F2 R' U2 R L2 U' L2 U F & U L' B
&U2 F' U' F U' (19 to 4c)
New skeleton:
U @ L' U2 D2 F2 R' U2 R L2 U' L2 U F U2 F' U' F L' B +
@F' R F L' F' R' F L (2 cancel)
+ L B L' F L B' L' F' (ran out of time)
=33 moves

I did have time to check 2 of the insertions, but neither had any cancellation. Apparently 30 is optimal, which is nested.


#2: R' U' F D' L2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F2 R B R2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 R2 D F2 U' R' U' F



Spoiler



U B2 D (D) //222 (very nice)
R2 U' F' @ //EO
U F2 //223
U' R2 //F2L-1
@U2 R' U R U (leave 5c in 15 moves)

Skeleton: & U B2 D R2 U' F' U2 R' U R U2 F2 U' R2 D'
& B2 U F U' £ B2 U F' U' (2 cancel)
£ L B' R B L' B' R' B (1 cancel)
=28 moves

Once again ran out of time to check all the first insertions. Apparently 26 is optimal, and I actually wrote down the second insertion, but in the wrong place! I even crossed out 26 on my sheet 



#3: R' U' F U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D U' F2 R' B D' F' U' L R D F2 U F' R' U' F



Spoiler



D2 F U' R' F //222 with inserted D2
(U' B2) //pseudo 223
(L2 B L' B2 U') //leave 3e + some corners

Skeleton: D2 F U' R' F @ U B2 L B' L2 B2 U
@B F' L F L' B' (16 to 4c)
New skeleton: D2 F & U' R' B L F L' B' U B2 L B' L2 B2 U
& F' R2 F L £ F' R2 F L' (2 cancel)
£ L' B L F L' B' L F' (3 cancel)
=27 moves

I started insertions earlier this time, since I learnt from earlier mistakes...




=29.33 mean
Unfortunately, not what I was hoping for at all, but I feel that I got unlucky with there not being any first insertions that cancelled 3. Overall though, I think it was alright, and I'm happy that I could find the skeletons, which is the more important part of FMC in my opinion 


EDIT: @porkynator you could have done F2 U B U B' U' F2 at the end of your skeleton for the first scramble, leaving 3c in 24 (which could potentially beat your result). Very nice solutions on all three though


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## obelisk477 (Jul 17, 2017)

How many moves on average can I expect to cancel on the first insertion (assuming you solve it by doing two 3 cycles) of a pure two twisted corners? I've only tried it once and canceling 6 was no problem. Is that normal?


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## mDiPalma (Jul 17, 2017)

the next version of HARCS would have won worlds with a 24.33 Mo3 in <80 seconds using stock petrus on the normal scramble without insertions (with a branch factor of only 10).

but it could only tie @porkynator's dank M'EME' (26-move solution) XD



Spoiler: solutions



click to see on alg.cubing.net
*
solve 1 (24):
z2 y' // inspection
D2 F D' B L U2 F D' L // 3x2x2 (9*)
R' U F R F' // eo (5*)
U' R2 D R2 U' R2 U R2 D' R // f2l (5*+5=10)

solve 2 (23):
y2 z // inspection
U R L D2 F2 R' D' R' U2 B // 3x2x2 (9*)
R U' // eo (0*+2=2)
R U2 R' U2 R' U' R' U2 R' U' R' // f2l (9*+2=11)

solve 3 (26):
y' // inspection
R B' L2 B2 U2 L D2 F2 D2 // 3x2x2 (9*)
R F' B U' F B' // eo (6*)
U' R D R' U2 R D2 R U' R' D // f2l (9*+2=11)*





Spoiler: image



ignore the * on eo from solve 2 - i'm too lazy to regenerate the picture since i fixed that bug


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## Marcel P (Jul 17, 2017)

My WC17 Solutions:

Scramble 1: R' U' F U2 L2 F' R2 F U2 F L2 D R' U L2 F2 L' U B' R2 U' B2 F2 R' U' F
(B') //reduce to 4 bad Edges
D U' F' //EO+1x2x2
(R D % R2 D' L B2) //2x2x3
(R U R U2 R) //L4C
% = D L' D' & R2 D L D' R2
& = D' R' U' R D R' U R
Solution 1: D U' F' R' U2 R' U' R' B2 L' D2 L' D' R U' R D' R' U R D2 L D2 R' B (25 Moves)

Scramble 2: R' U' F D' L2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F2 R B R2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 R2 D F2 U' R' U' F
(L F2 L') //EO
(U2 L2 D2 B U2 D' L2) //2x2x3+Pairs
B2 D' B D' B2 D' B D' B' //All but 3 Pairs
F' D2 B D B' D2 F D' //Block commutator
Solution 2: B2 D' B D' B2 D' B D' B' F' D2 B D B' D2 F D' L2 D U2 B' D2 L2 U2 L F2 L' (27 Moves)

Scramble 3: R' U' F U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D U' F2 R' B D' F' U' L R D F2 U F' R' U' F
L2 F R' B' L2 //2x2x3 - 1 Corner
(L' U L U2 F2) //F2L - 1 - 1 Corner
(U' F U F') //EO
(B U' L' U2 L U B' U2) // L3C
Skeleton: L2 F R' B' L2 U2 B U' $ L' U2 L U B' F U' F' U F2 U2 L' U' L
$ = U2 L' D' L U2 L' D L
Solution 2: L2 F R' B' L2 U2 B U L' D' L U2 L' D U2 L U B' F U' F' U F2 U2 L' U' L (27 Moves)


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## Berd (Jul 18, 2017)

R' U' F U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D U' F2 R' B D' F' U' L R D F2 U F' R' U' F

L2 F (Square)
R' L B' U' L F2 U2 L' U' L (F2L-1 +EO)

Where do you go from here? This was my 3rd WC FMC attempt.


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## 1973486 (Jul 18, 2017)

Berd said:


> R' U' F U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D U' F2 R' B D' F' U' L R D F2 U F' R' U' F
> 
> L2 F (Square)
> R' L B' U' L F2 U2 L' U' L (F2L-1 +EO)
> ...



First good thing I found:

(U R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2
B' R2 F2 D' F' D F' R2 B)

Gives final solution of L2 F R' L B' U' L F2 U2 L' U' L B' R2 F D' F D F2 R2 B R2 U2 R2 U R2 U R2 U' (29)

Second thing was

L2 F R' L B' U' L F2 U2 L' U' L R' (just added an R')
(R' U R U R'
B' U F U' B U' F' U' F U' F')

Also 29 but 8 less QTM


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## Hssandwich (Jul 19, 2017)

Interesting solution on the last scramble of BOB 2017:

R' U' F L D2 L R2 D2 U2 B2 D2 R U2 R' F' L D' F' L R2 D2 F R' B R' U' F


Spoiler



S E2 S' E2 premoves (to help visualise everything)

(B2 D L2) //222 with blocks
L' D L //223
D' F (F') //F2L-1
R2 B R B' R D //leave 3c in 15 moves

Skeleton to 3 corners + 4 centres: L' D L D' F R2 B @ R B' R D F' R2 U' B2
@ B' R2 L2 F B' U2 D2 F (4 cancel)

Adjusted skeleton: L' D L D' F L2 F B' U2 D2 F L B' L U F' L2 D' @ B2
@ D L' D' R D L D' R' (3 cancel)
=24 moves 

Inspired by Sebastiano's MEME insertion, I saw this scramble had a 1 move 2x2x2 with 4 centres swapped, as well as lots of blocks  I found a relatively silly skeleton to 3 corners, inserted the centres and finally inserted the corners 



@jpbrc Do you have your solution?


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## andersonaap (Jul 20, 2017)

Hi Hssandwich,

Batista (@jpbrc) published theirs BOB solutions on brazilian forum.

http://cubomagicobrasil.com/forum/t...s-e-discussões/?do=findComment&comment=186512


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## Cale S (Jul 20, 2017)

20 move solution on the second scramble of Southern Championships

R' U' F L2 F D2 B' L2 F' L2 U2 R2 B2 D' L' B' U R' D' L B2 D2 U2 F R' U' F

U' B U2 B' U2 B // 2x2x2
F D // 2x2x3
L' F (F) // F2L - 1
L F U L U' F' // 3e

U' B U2 B' U2 B F D L' F L F U L U' F2 @
@ = F2 U F2 R2 B2 D B2 R2

solution: U' B U2 B' U2 B F D L' F L F U L F2 R2 B2 D B2 R2 (20)

Insertion Finder couldn't find any insertions ???


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## jpbrc (Jul 20, 2017)

Hssandwich said:


> Interesting solution on the last scramble of BOB 2017:
> 
> R' U' F L D2 L R2 D2 U2 B2 D2 R U2 R' F' L D' F' L R2 D2 F R' B R' U' F
> 
> ...



Nice solution! I saw that the scramble was really interesting for a "meme" insertion, but I didn't want to try because I have never done one of that in home.

My solution's in the 25.33 avg:

*2.1) *R' U' F L2 U' R2 D F2 D F2 D2 L2 U L' B' L F D2 R2 D R U' L D' R' U' F


Spoiler



R U' // Square
(troca)
B2 F L' // EO
U B // 2x2x2
(troca)
F D F' D F D' F L2 // 2x2x3
F' D F2 D F2 D' // L3E

Skeleton: R U' F D F' D F D' F * L2 F' D F2 D F2 D' B' U' L F' B2
*= F2 R' L D2 R L'


*Solution:* R U' F D F' D F D' F' R' L D2 R L F' D F2 D F2 D' B' U' L F' B2 *(25)*

*2.2)* R' U' F U2 L2 U2 F' D2 B2 F' D2 R2 U B F2 L' D B' R U2 B2 F U R' U' F


Spoiler



D B' L R' F' // EO
(troca)
R' U' F2 R2 // 2x2x3-1c
U' L U' L U2 L // L5C

skeleton: D B' L R' F' L' U2 L' U L' U R2 * F2 U # R
*= R' B' R F2 R' B R F2
#= U' R U L' U' R' U L


*Solution: *D B' L R' F' L' U2 L' U L' U R B' R F2 R' B R2 U L' U' R' U L R *(25)*

*2.3)* R' U' F L D2 L R2 D2 U2 B2 D2 R U2 R' F' L D' F' L R2 D2 F R' B R' U' F


Spoiler



L2 D' F' // EO
D' U' B2 U L D' L // 2x2x3
U R U' R // F2L-1-1c + square
L' U R' U' L U2 R // L3C

skeleton: L2 D' F' D' U' B2 U L D' L U R U' R L' U R' U' L U2 * R
*= U2 L D2 L' U2 L D2 L'


*Solution:* L2 D' F' D' U' B2 U L D' L U R U' R L' U R' U' L2 D2 L' U2 L D2 L' R *(26)*

*Mean :* 25 25 26 = *25.33*


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## Hssandwich (Jul 20, 2017)

Cale S said:


> 20 move solution on the second scramble of Southern Championships
> 
> R' U' F L2 F D2 B' L2 F' L2 U2 R2 B2 D' L' B' U R' D' L B2 D2 U2 F R' U' F
> 
> ...


Hey, I also found this  I would have posted but I didn't want to double post XD Was trying the scramble while teaching someone FMC techniques 

Here are my other solutions:

#1: R' U' F D2 L R U2 F2 L B2 R' F2 R' U R2 U2 B' U R D' L F2 R' U' F
30 moves


Spoiler



(U2 F U') D R //222
(D F' D' F D L' D) //223
(B2 D' B D) //idk what this is now, but I have it written down 
(L2 B' L B) //solve some stuff
(L D L' D' R L B' L B R' L2) //finish!


Solution: D R2 L2 B' L' B L' R' D L D' L' B' L' B L2 D' B' D B2 D' L D' F' D F D' U F' U2 (30)

Alternative after (B2 D' B D):
(L2 R B' L B) //pseudo F2L-1
(L D L' D' L B' L B R' L2) //finish!
=30 moves




#2: See Cale's post


#3: R' U' F U B2 U' F2 L2 F2 D R2 F2 D2 L2 B' D2 F L' R' F U2 L D F R' U' F


Spoiler



(B2 R F) //222
(U' L' U' B2) B //223
F U2 F' L2 //F2L-1
F U F' //leave 3c3e

Skeleton: B F U2 F' L2 F U F' B2 U L @ U F' R' B2

@ R' D' £ B2 D B2 R (leave 3 corners)
£ R F R' B2 R F' R' B2 (2 cancel)

Solution: B F U2 F' L2 F U F' B2 U L R' D' R F R' B2 R F' R' D B2 R U F' R' B2 (27)

A little disappointed with this one, scramble was really nice, 3 move 1x2x3 too, with plenty of pairs. I wish I had time to have a look at roux solutions.



30, 20, 27 = 25.67 mean


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## Cale S (Jul 21, 2017)

Hssandwich said:


> Hey, I also found this  I would have posted but I didn't want to double post XD Was trying the scramble while teaching someone FMC techniques
> 
> Here are my other solutions:
> 
> ...



I also got 30 on the first one, and on the third I had the same 2x2x3 and also had no time to look at roux solution. My mean for solutions within the time limit was 30, 29, 30 = 29.67, solutions are in the Fewest Moves fb group


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## Theo Leinad (Jul 22, 2017)

México Guadalajara CoolToons Scramble: 
R' U' F L2 B D2 R2 U2 R2 B L2 U2 B2 U2 R U' L2 R2 F D B2 U L' F R' U' F

I'll post my 55 solution later, just if anyone want to try, should be a sub 34 easy for you guys


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## Cale S (Jul 22, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> México Guadalajara CoolToons Scramble:
> R' U' F L2 B D2 R2 U2 R2 B L2 U2 B2 U2 R U' L2 R2 F D B2 U L' F R' U' F
> 
> I'll post my 55 solution later, just if anyone want to try, should be a sub 34 easy for you guys



My attempt on this scramble:

(D' L2 F2 L') // EO
(U' L2) // square
(D B) // 2x2x2
(R2) // square
(F2 U F R2) // 3e5c
(F D' F' D) // 3e3c

D' F D F' R2 F' U' F2 R2 B' D' @ L2 U L ^ F2 L2 D
@ = D R2 D' U F2 U'
^ = [L' D2 L, U2]

Solution: D' F D F' R2 F' U' F2 R2 B' R2 D' U F2 U' L2 U D2 L U2 L' D2 L U2 F2 L2 D

27 moves

within 15 minutes I had a 29 that was 23 to 4e and I inserted an H perm ([L2 S2 L2, U]) that cancelled 4

before I found the edge insertion that I used I found D B2 D' U R2 U' which is a move later in the skeleton, if I had used that one it would be a 26 but I didn't have time...


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## Isaac Lai (Jul 23, 2017)

Current SS weekly comp
A very lucky start with an atrocious continuation... I'm interested to know what others can get with this start 


Spoiler



Scramble: L2 D' L U F' R2 D R' B L B D' R2 U' D2 B2 D L2 D2 F2
D R U' F' L' R B2 D' F' D // F2L-1 
(F2 D F2 D2 L D L') // Last pair 
(U F U' F U F2 U' L F2 L' F' L F' L' F') // ZBLL

Solution: D R U' F' L' R B2 D' F' D F L F L' F L F2 L' U F2 U' F' U F' U' L D' L' D2 F2 D' F2 (32)


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## EMI (Jul 23, 2017)

Worlds 28, 26, 30 = 28 mean (5th place)



Spoiler: Solutions



Scramble 1: R' U' F U2 L2 F' R2 F U2 F L2 D R' U L2 F2 L' U B' R2 U' B2 F2 R' U' F

Two different 28s:

F D2 U' R' U // 2x2x2
D' L' U B' U' // 2x2x3
D2 B' L' D L // Pseudo-F2L-1
B2 D' B D L B2 L' @ B D' // L3C in 24

@ = L B' R' B L' B' R B // 8-4

Solution 1a: F D2 U' R' U D' L' U B' U' D2 B' L' D L B2 D' B D L B R' B L' B' R B2 D' (28)

(B L F) // 1x2x2
U L' U' [R'] D R2 U' // 2x2x3
(R' D R D') // F2L-1
(B' D B D' R) // L4C in 19

Skeleton: U L' U' @ R' D R2 # U' R' D B' D' B D R' D' R F' L' B'

@ = U L U' R2 U L' U' R2 // 8-7
# = F2 R' B' R F2 R' B R // 8-0

Solution 1b: R2 U L' U' R D R2 F2 R' B' R F2 R' B R U' R' D B' D' B D R' D' R F' L' B' (28)

Scramble 2: R' U' F D' L2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F2 R B R2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 R2 D F2 U' R' U' F

Two different 26s:

U B2 D (D) // 2x2x2
U' F U' @ R2 // 2x2x3
(L F2 L') // EO
U2 F' // so many blocks
U F' U F U' F // L3C in 19

@ = U2 L D L' U2 L D' L' // 8-1

Solution 2a: U B2 D U' F U L D L' U2 L D' L' R2 U2 F' U F' U F U' F L F2 L' D' (26)

(L F2 L') // EO
U B2 D (D) // 2x2x2
R2 U' F U2 R2 // 2x2x3
U2 F2 (F2) // F2L
L' U2 L B U' L' U' L U B' U' // LL

Solution 2b: U B2 D R2 U' F U2 R2 U2 F2 L' U2 L B U' L' U' L U B' U' F2 D' L F2 L' (26)

Scramble 3: R' U' F U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D U' F2 R' B D' F' U' L R D F2 U F' R' U' F

L2 F // 1x2x2
L B' U L' // Pseudo-2x2x3
(R L2) // 2x2x3
(L' D L2 B' L') // EO
(D' B' D) // F2L-1
(B D B D' B) // L4C in 20

Skeleton: L2 F L B' U L' B' D B' D' B' D' @ B # D L B L2 D' L' R'

@ = D B D' F' D B' D' F // 8-5
# = B2 R' F2 R B2 R' F2 R // 8-1

Solution 3: L2 F L B' U L' B' D B' D2 F' D B' D' F B' R' F2 R B2 R' F2 R D L B L2 D' L' R' (30)


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## guysensei1 (Jul 24, 2017)

weekly fmc, 25



Spoiler



B' R U D' L' U2 B' D U R L2 B2 D2 R' L F U L B R2

R B L//2x2x2
inv
R' B' D2 B D' F' R2 //2x2x3 
D' F'//F2L-1
F L D L' D' F' D'//3C3E

skeleton: R B L D F D L D' * L' D R2 F D B' D2 B R
*=D' R2 D L' ** D' R2 D L
**=B2 L2 F2 U L2 B2 R2 D

final : R B L D F D L D2 R2 D L' B2 L2 F2 U L2 B2 D2 R2 F D B' D2 B R


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## Bubtore (Jul 24, 2017)

Winning solutions of Swiss Open :

S // R' U' F D2 U2 F2 R' U2 L' D2 L' R2 B' R' B2 U2 F' D' U B L' F D2 R' U'


Spoiler



I // F' U R D2 F' L B' U' D F U2 B2 R B R2 L D2 L U2 R F2 U2 D2 F' U R

U2 R2 B R2 D' R // 222 + 2 pairs
(U L2 U') // 122
(F L2 D2 L' D2 F) // Pseudo F2L-1
(D' F' D F D' L2) // L3C

Skel // U2 R2 B R2 * D' R L2 D F' D' F D F' D2 L D2 L2 F' U L2 U' - 21
* R D' R' U2 R D R' U2


Solution // U2 R2 B R' D' R' U2 R D R' U2 D' R L2 D F' D' F D F' D2 L D2 L2 F' U L2 U' - 28 Moves

S // R' U' F D2 B2 L2 D2 F R2 F L2 D2 B R' U L' U2 B U F' U' F' D R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R D' F U F U' B' U2 L U' R B' D2 L2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 B2 D2 F' U R

(U2 L U2 L) // EO + 3 pairs
(D2 F2) // 122
U' F' U2 // 222
(R2 B' D' R2) // 223
(D B' D B') // Domino reduction
(D2 B2 D2 B2) // L3C

Skel // U' F' U2 B2 D2 B2 D2 B D' B D' R2 D B R2 F2 D2 * L' U2 L' U2 - 21
* U R2 U' L' U R2 U' L


Solution // U' F' U2 B2 D2 B2 D2 B D' B D' R2 D B R2 F2 D2 U R2 U' L' U R2 U L' U2 - 26 Moves

The 30 isn't really worth writing down as it was nothing special (linear solution ...)

edit : and please kill me for being stupid (Worlds) :

S1 // R' U' F U2 L2 F' R2 F U2 F L2 D R' U L2 F2 L' U B' R2 U' B2 F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R F2 B2 U R2 B U' L F2 L2 U' R D' L2 F' U2 F' R2 F L2 U2 F' U R

U2 R' F' // 122
D L' // 123
(R2 U') // 223
(L' D' L) // 2 pairs
B' D2 B D B2 D // 3E3C
L2 U D F R F' D' F R' F' U' L2 // Finish


Solution // U2 R' F' D L' B' D2 B D B2 D L2 U D F R F' D' F R' F' U' L D L U R2 - 27 moves

S2 // R' U' F D' L2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F2 R B R2 D2 L2 U' F2 L2 R2 D F2 U' R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R U F2 D' R2 L2 F2 U L2 D2 R2 B' R' F2 R2 F2 U' F2 D2 L2 D F' U R

D L2 // 122
F D R2 D2 // 222
F' L2 F' L U2 L // 223 + EO
(F U' F2 U F) // Domino reduction
(U F2 U' F2 U' F2 U2 F2 U') // Finish


Solution // D L2 F D R2 D2 F' L2 F' L U2 L U F2 U2 F2 U F2 U F2 U' F' U' F2 U F' - 26 moves

S3 // R' U' F U R2 B2 D' L2 F2 D U' F2 R' B D' F' U' L R D F2 U F' R' U' F


Spoiler



F U' R' F * // 222
U' L' U2 L B' // 223
U2 F U' F' // F2L-1 + EO
L U L' U2 L U' L' U' // L3C

* F' D F U2 F' D' F U2


Solution // F U' R' D F U2 F' D' F U L' U2 L B' U2 F U' F' L U L' U2 L U' L' U' - 26 moves


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## UnspeakableRebel (Jul 24, 2017)

Does anyone have any versions of an H or Z perm that i can use in FMC?


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## porkynator (Jul 24, 2017)

UnspeakableRebel said:


> Does anyone have any versions of an H or Z perm that i can use in FMC?



For H:
[F2 M2 F2, U] = F2 R2 L2 B2 D B2 R2 L2 F2 U'
and
R' L' U2 R L F B U2 F' B'


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## qaz (Jul 25, 2017)

I found an interesting start for the weekly competition scramble but couldn't find a good continuation...



Spoiler



B2 R B2 L2 F2 R F2 R' D2 L' B' D' L2 F' L U F2 U R' U2

(F' B L B') // 2x2x2
(D' R' D' F' R L D' L' *) //2x2x3 + pair
R' D2 R // all but 6 pieces

I did find this
* [L D' B': B R D R' D' B' D] // setup to FRURUF
giving the solution
R' D2 R L D' B' D' B D R D' R' D2 L' R' F D R D B L' B' F
... but it leaves 2 twisted corners. Not very useful, but I'm still interested if anyone else can find a good finish from this skeleton?


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## Cale S (Jul 26, 2017)

qaz said:


> I found an interesting start for the weekly competition scramble but couldn't find a good continuation...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You could insert D' R D R' B' D' B D2 at that point to leave 3 edges

then 
R' D2 R D2 B' D B R D' R' D L D L' R' F D R D B @ L' B' F 
@ = [B' R' B, M2]

for 30


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## YouCubing (Jul 27, 2017)

26???? really really stupid scramble but yeah that's pb

U' R' L B U D2 R U F D2 F2 D2 F' U2 B R2 B2 D2 L2 D'


Spoiler



D' U2 R U'
L' D' F R' D R
F' L F L' F' L' F'
B L B D' B' D L' B' L


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## BQ (Jul 30, 2017)

I got 24.33 mean in China Championship 2017 and tied WR.

Scramble 1: R' U' F L2 U2 B2 F' U2 B2 F2 L2 D2 U2 R' B' F' R' D B2 L R' F U' R' U' F


Spoiler



222: U L U R F2
pseudo 233: L' U' B' L R' U R U
L4C: U' L' F' L F U L2

Skeleton: U L U R F2 L' U' B' L R' U L' R * F' L F U L2 #
*: R' F' L F R F' L' F (-8)
#: L' F2 L B L' F2 L B' (-1)

Solution: U L U R F2 L' U' B' L R' U L' F' L F R U L F2 L B L' F2 L B' (25)



Scramble 2: R' U' F L2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 U L2 R2 D' B' F2 L F L2 U2 B' F' L U' R' U' F


Spoiler



122: U2 L'
223: F' U L' U2 D' R' D U2
L3E3C: U L2 U' F L' F2 L'

Skeleton: U2 L' # F' U L' U2 D' R' D U' L2 U' * F L' F2 L'
*: U D' L D L' U' D F D' F'
#: L' F' R2 F L F' R2 F

Solution: U2 L2 F' R2 F L F' R2 U L' U2 D' R' D U' L2 D' L D L' U' D F D' L' F2 L' (27)

Another solution (28): U2 L' F' U L' U2 D' R' D U' L2 U' F L' F2 * L'
*: U' R' F' R F U #
#: U L D L' U' L D' L'



Scramble 3: R' U' F L' R2 U2 F2 L D2 U2 L U' L' F' D2 U' F2 L2 U2 F D2 F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



This was a really lucky solution.

223: R D' B R L' F2 R' U2 L2
233: R F' U F U' F2 R F'
OLL: F R D R' D' F'
PLL: R

Solution: R D' B R L' F2 R' U2 L2 R F' U F U' F2 R2 D R' D' F' R (21)


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## porkynator (Jul 30, 2017)

I'm trying to find my way in the jungle of edge 3-cycles. I know many different types (ignoring setup moves):

The 4STM/6HTM case: [M', U2]
Classic 8STM/10HTM cases, such as [M', U R U']
Also classic 8STM/12HTM cases such as [M' U M, D] 

The mysterious 8-movers: R2 Fw2 R2 Uw R2 Fw2 R2 Uw (where Uw might as well be just U)
Magic <R,U> spam, some of which explained in This Post that I am reading in this moment
Magic <M,U> spam such as (M' U M U)*2, not very useful in FMC
Crazy stuff like U L D R F R' D' L' U' F'
Has there been any effort to classify them all? Is there at least any partial classification o some explanation for the wierd cases like the last one?

I am asking in this thread because my interest in this arises from FMC, but I can make a new topic if pople are interested.


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## Cale S (Jul 30, 2017)

porkynator said:


> I'm trying to find my way in the jungle of edge 3-cycles. I know many different types (ignoring setup moves):
> 
> The 4STM/6HTM case: [M', U2]
> Classic 8STM/10HTM cases, such as [M', U R U']
> ...



[R U R', S] looks like a standard 10 mover but it works differently


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## porkynator (Jul 30, 2017)

Cale S said:


> [R U R', S] looks like a standard 10 mover but it works differently



Nice! Seeing it as [Lw F Lw', S] reminds me of Niklas for corners.


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## hagner (Jul 30, 2017)

Would it be legal to use cubes with letter on the center of each side or do i have to make these letters during the attempt, and if so can i cut the stickers before the start of the attempt? 

If i have to do the letters during the attempt ill use the first minute to place these stickers on the centers

I sometimes get confused on which face im turning so i got this idea. I havent tried doing this yet but i will if it is legal and i need to know when these letters can be on the centers.


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## T1_M0 (Jul 30, 2017)

hagner said:


> Would it be legal to use cubes with letter on the center of each side or do i have to make these letters during the attempt, and if so can i cut the stickers before the start of the attempt?
> 
> If i have to do the letters during the attempt ill use the first minute to place these stickers on the centers
> 
> I sometimes get confused on which face im turning so i got this idea. I havent tried doing this yet but i will if it is legal and i need to know when these letters can be on the centers.


You can have stickers pre-written and cut when starting the attempt. I guess no rule denies having the stickers on the cube too. So I think it's completely legal, fix me if I'm wrong.

Also, just practice for a few attempts and you'll learn the faces fast.


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## Laura O (Jul 31, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> You can have stickers pre-written and cut when starting the attempt. I guess no rule denies having the stickers on the cube too. So I think it's completely legal, fix me if I'm wrong.



For FMC the same regulations as for any other event apply. Relevant here:
E3b) Rubik's Cubes (at most 3, self-supplied), as described in Article 3.
3d) Puzzles must have colored parts, which define the color scheme of the puzzle and must be one and only one of the following: colored stickers, colored tiles, colored plastic, or painted/printed colors. All colored parts of a puzzle must be made of a similar material.
3l) A puzzle may have a logo on a colored part. If it does, it must have at most one colored part with a logo.

Having the stickers on the cube makes them logos and having more than one logo on the cube is not allowed.


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## T1_M0 (Jul 31, 2017)

Laura O said:


> For FMC the same regulations as for any other event apply. Relevant here:
> E3b) Rubik's Cubes (at most 3, self-supplied), as described in Article 3.
> 3d) Puzzles must have colored parts, which define the color scheme of the puzzle and must be one and only one of the following: colored stickers, colored tiles, colored plastic, or painted/printed colors. All colored parts of a puzzle must be made of a similar material.
> 3l) A puzzle may have a logo on a colored part. If it does, it must have at most one colored part with a logo.
> ...


Why does it differ from insertion stickers? Doesn't E3c allow them?


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## porkynator (Jul 31, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> You can have stickers pre-written and cut when starting the attempt. I guess no rule denies having the stickers on the cube too. So I think it's completely legal, fix me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Also, just practice for a few attempts and you'll learn the faces fast.



I'm not sure your stickers can be pre-written. Can I take a 6x10 set of stickers and pre-write them with F, R, U, R', U', ... ? This way stickes may effectively work as an algorithm list.


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## Laura O (Jul 31, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Why does it differ from insertion stickers? Doesn't E3c allow them?



You are allowed to use the stickers during the attempt:
E3) The competitor may use the following objects *during* the attempt. [..]

So your cubes must not have any markings at the beginning of the attempt.



porkynator said:


> I'm not sure your stickers can be pre-written. Can I take a 6x10 set of stickers and pre-write them with F, R, U, R', U', ... ? This way stickes may effectively work as an algorithm list.



Pre-written stickers are fine as that doesn't change the purpose of the stickers. Using them as cheat sheet clearly changes this purpose and it would be an attempt to cheat.


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## Bubtore (Aug 1, 2017)

Last scramble of US Nationals :

S // R' U' F D2 F' L2 D2 F2 D2 U2 B' U2 B' U' R D' B' L U' F D R2 D U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R U2 D' R2 D' F' U L' B D R' U B U2 B U2 D2 F2 D2 L2 F D2 F' U R

(U L' B F2 L D') // 223
(L2 B' U B + L2) // EO + PF2L-1
(U2 L) // 2E5C

+ B' U' L' U2 B' U' B U' L U B L'

Skel // L' U2 L' B' U' L' * U B' U B U2 L B L2 D L' F2 B' L U' - 20
* B' D' B U B' D B U'


Solution // L' U2 L' B' U' L' B' D' B U B' D U B U2 L B L2 D L' F2 B' L U' - 24 Moves

I also found a 25 quite early :


Spoiler



(U L' B F2 U L D') // 223
L' F U' F' // EO
L U2 L2 U // 3E3C

Skel // L' * F U' F' + L U2 L2 U D L' U' F2 B' L U' - 20
+ F' U' L U L' F
* L2 F R' F' L2 F R F'

Solution // L F R' F' L2 F R U' F2 U' L U L' F L U2 L2 U D L' U' F2 B' L U' - 25 Moves


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## Neuro (Aug 1, 2017)

I got a 26 move solution on the example solve thread, but I think it could be better with a proper insertion (still not very familiar with them unfortunately) so let me know what you find and any tips 

L2 B' F' D2 L2 F U2 L2 U2 B F' U' F' R' B D' F U B2 U2 F'

D2 F D U' F' D2 B' D B' D' L' D F2//AB4C2E
D2 F' D' F U D' B' L2 B U' F2 D F2//Solved


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## Theo Leinad (Aug 2, 2017)

Scramble: 
R' U' F R2 D2 B2 L2 D2 F2 R F2 R' U2 B R' F D2 F D' B R2 D R' U' F

Note: This is my PB so far  (35)


Spoiler



R2 F' R' U2 R U2 (2x2x2) x6
F2 D F' R F' R' F' R' F' R F R F' (2x2x3+insertion) x 13
R2 D' R2 (F2L-1) x3
D' R (pair) x2
D F' R F R' (F2L) x5
B D R D' R' B' (OLL/skip) x6
TOTAL 35



And After I checked the 9 mover comm:


Spoiler



R2 F' R' U2 R U2 (2x2x2) x6
F2 D' R [F B'] D2 [F' B] R D2 F (2x2x3) x 11 (insertion)
R2 D' R2 (F2L-1) x3
D' R (pair) x2
D F' R F R' (F2L) x5
B D R D' R' B' (OLL/skip) x6
TOTAL 33



If I wrote something wrong, please correct me


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## Cale S (Aug 2, 2017)

27.33 mean all with skeletons that were 3 edges and some corners


Spoiler



1.) U2 R' U2 R' F2 L D2 B2 D2 L' U2 B R U B2 F D' U B2 U

F' D' B2 L' B // EO
R' U // pseudo 2x2x2 + square
(D' L) L2 // 2x2x3
R' U2 R U // 3e4c

F' D' B2 L' B R' U L2 ^ R' U2 R U L' D
^ = [U B2 U', R] // woaj block comm to L3C

F' D' B2 L' B R' U L2 U B2 U' R U B2 U' @ R2 U2 R U L' D
@ = [U R2 U', L']

Solution: F' D' B2 L' B R' U L2 U B2 U' R U B2 R2 U' L' U R2 U' L R2 U2 R U L' D (27)

2.) B U2 L2 U2 B2 R2 F' R2 D2 B2 F L' B' F R2 D' B2 D2 R' D' U

(F R' B D2 L U' R2) R2 // 2x2x3 - corner
R' D2 R F' D2 // 3e5c

R D2 R @ F' D2 R2 U L' D2 ^ B' R F'
^ = L' D % L' D' L2
@ = [R F' R', B']
% = [D', L U2 L']

Solution: R D2 R2 F' R' B' R F R' B F' D2 R2 U L' D2 U2 L' D L U2 L2 D' L2 B' R F' (27)

3.) U2 B2 D2 B R2 D2 B' R2 F2 R2 D2 U R' F D' U R F2 D2 R
(F' B D L2 F' B R' B' R') // xxcross
F' R' F R F // 3e3c

F' R' F R F R B R ^ B' F L2 D' B' F
^ = [M, F' R2 F]

F' R' F R F R B L' R2 U' R2 U R' @ L F' R2 F2 B' L2 D' F B'
@ = [R F R', B2]

Solution: F' R' F R F R B L' R2 U' R2 U F R' B2 R F' R' B2 L F' R2 F2 B' L2 D' F B' (28)


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## porkynator (Aug 2, 2017)

Today's failed attempt:
DNF in 1hr
27 no time limit (meh)
Couldn't find optimal ending to a beautiful start, even though I was very close.
Scramble (ongoing german forum comp): R' U' F U2 F2 L2 D' B2 F2 D' L R' D F' U' R' B' R2 F D U' B' R' U' F 


Spoiler



Premove: D' (found at the end to make lots of pairs)
U2 F' U' //Obvious 2x2x2 (3/3+1)
B' D B //Orient two edges (3/6+1)
D2 L D2 B2 //2x2x3 + 6 pairs (4/10+1)
Stop here if you want to have fun and try for yourself.

A possible continuation I've found:
B' //Save one pair (for F2L on R) (0/11)
L F L' F' //Insert other pair (4/15)
B D L' D' //Insert saved pair (4/19)
Antisune + AUF for 27 total

Another possible 27:
F' D F
L D' B' L B //All but a pair 3-cycle
L' F' L D L D' L' F //Pair 3-cycle

But I knew I was missing something really good. So I tried Cube Explorer and got this, which is very close to the first 27:
B' U' //Save one pair (for F2L on R) (1/12)
L F L' F' //Insert other pair (4/16)
L U L B //Finish (4/20)
[\spoiler]


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## T1_M0 (Aug 4, 2017)

Easy edge 3-cycles I should learn? At the moment I know only

6-move [M, U2] + inverse (1 premove is okay, but still I get to use this very rarely)
Then the intuitive 10-movers:

Comms where interchanges are in the same face like [L' E2 L, D']
Interchange is already in M, E or S slice like [U R2 U', M']


When I don't find anything but the 10-movers and not any cancellations, I'm pretty much ****ed up. An example (the current weekly comp):
D F B2 R' L B2 L B' R2 U D' R2 D' B2 D R2 L2 D2 R2

My skeleton (corner insertions already done):
U2 B' R U2 R' U F' U F L' D' L' B L F2 L' B L' F' R2 F L2 * F' R2 F' L2 B
*[F' E2 F, U'] ([F' D2 U2 B, U'])

So I searched and searched and got tired to searching and messed up by doing this insertion. The insertion finder found multiple 8-movers (not really comms) cancelling 3 moves. I want to learn some of these.


Which edge 3-cycles do you use, I'd like to learn some easy ones to find better edge insertions. Cases that often come up?


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## guysensei1 (Aug 4, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Which edge 3-cycles do you use, I'd like to learn some easy ones to find better edge insertions. Cases that often come up?


U perms, optimal is R2 U' F B' R2 F' B U' R2, mirror/inverse to get the others, also the 11 move 2gen ones are good to know.


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## Cale S (Aug 4, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> Easy edge 3-cycles I should learn? At the moment I know only
> 
> 6-move [M, U2] + inverse (1 premove is okay, but still I get to use this very rarely)
> Then the intuitive 10-movers:
> ...



(R2 U' R2 f2)2 and variations


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## T1_M0 (Aug 4, 2017)

Cale S said:


> (R2 U' R2 f2)2 and variations


That was helpful! I noticed the insertion finder gave the same cycle in different variations.


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## Cale S (Aug 4, 2017)

T1_M0 said:


> That was helpful! I noticed the insertion finder gave the same cycle in different variations.



You can also move the first move to the end and it solves the same case, so more opportunity to cancel


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## Hssandwich (Aug 7, 2017)

Scramble from FLIP Open 2017, two 24s found in 1 hour!
R' U' F L2 U R2 F2 D B2 U' L2 D B F' L' D' U2 F D' B L R D B R' U' F


24 #1


Spoiler



R' U' F L2 U R2 F2 D B2 U' L2 D B F' L' D' U2 F D' B L R D B R' U' F

*U'* //pair
(L B2 D B) *L* //XXcross
(F2 D' F' D) //F2L-1
(L F L') //F2L
*L' U' *R U' R' U2 L //16 to 2 twisted corners

Skeleton: U2 R U' @ R' U2 L2 F' L' { D' F D } F2 B' D' B2 L'

Here I tried something I'd been thinking of using for a while, but I hadn't tried it in practice
Replace {} with L' D' F D F' L F (cancelling 2 and leaving 18 to 3c)

@ [B L2 B', R'] //cancels 2 for *24 moves*

Solution: U2 R U' B L2 B' R' B L2 B' U2 L2 F' L2 D' F D F' L F' B' D' B2 L' (24)



24 #2


Spoiler



R' U' F L2 U R2 F2 D B2 U' L2 D B F' L' D' U2 F D' B L R D B R' U' F

U'//pair
(L B2 D B) L //XXcross
(F2 D' F' D) //F2L-1
(L F L') //F2L

Then I tried using this as a 'skeleton'

U' L2 F' L' D' F D F2 B' £ D' B2 @
@ L' U B L2 B' L2 U' //leave 3c in 18 (again )
£ [B2, D F' D'] 2 cancel for* 24 moves *

Solution: U' L2 F' L' D' F D F2 B D F' D' B2 D F D2 B2 L' U B L2 B' L2 U' (24)



Finally, a 14 to 5c skeleton that I found at the end of the time (IF says 25 anyway)



Spoiler



U' //pair
(L B2 D B) L // XXcross
(U' D' F D) //F2L-1
U' R' F R // 14 to 5c



Cool scramble!


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## guysensei1 (Aug 7, 2017)

weekly fmc, I found a almost linear 28 but it's not my start so I'm not gonna submit it.



Spoiler



S: L R B2 U' F2 L2 R' F U B' L2 U2 L F D' R' B2 D U2 F'

F2 R B2 U' R' F'//2x2x2 (6/6)
U2 R2 U2//2x2x3 (3/9)
B U R U2 B2 U//EO (6/15)
R' B' R2 B//pseudo F2L (4/19)
F' R2 F R F' R F R' B//LL+fix pseudo (9/28)


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## Bubtore (Aug 7, 2017)

Special insertions for Atlantic Open Special scramble 2 :
S // R' U' F L2 R B2 U2 R2 F2 D2 L' D2 U2 F' U F' D' B R' D F2 D2 F U2 R' U' F
I // F' U R U2 F' D2 F2 D' R B' D F U' F U2 D2 L D2 F2 R2 U2 B2 R' L2 F' U R

(+ U' L' D' L' U') // 222
(D2 B' D' B' * D R2 B R') // 2E3C

* B R' B' R2 B R' B' R'
+ F U' B2 U F' U' B2 U

Solution // R B' R2 D' R B R B' R2 B R D B D2 U L D L B2 U F U' B2 U F' - 25 Moves

edit : and also for scramble 3 :
S // R' U' F U2 R' B2 D2 U2 F2 R' F2 L D' F' L' U B L' U' L D2 F2 U2 R' U' F
I // F' U R U2 F2 D2 L' U L B' U' L F D L' F2 R F2 U2 D2 B2 R U2 F' U R

L2 B L // 122
(U D R F') // 222
R2 D' R' D2 // PF2L-1
R' D' // 4E3C

Skel // L2 B L R2 + * D' R' D2 R' D' F R' D' U' - 13
* F2 B U' L' B L U F2 B'
+ R' B L2 B' R B L2 B'

Solution // L2 B L R B L2 B' R B L2 F2 U' L' B L U F2 B' D' R' D2 R' D' F R' D' U' - 27 Moves


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## qaz (Aug 12, 2017)

FMC PB!

Scramble: R2 F' B2 U2 D' L U' L' B' D' U' F' R D' F2 U2 L' F' B2 U2 (from David Adams' site, week 186)

B' L' U' B2 // 2x2x2
(L' D' L F D2 L' D' F2) // pseudo F2L-1
F L2 D L' D2 F' D' F // AB4C

skeleton: B' L' U' B2 F L2 D L' D2 F' D' F' D L D2 F' L' D * L (19 to AB4C)
* [D', L U L'] - cancels 6

new skeleton: B' L' U' B2 F L2 * D L' D2 F' D' F' D L D2 F' U L' D L U' (21 to AB3C)
* [L2, B' R2 B] - cancels 3

solution: B' L' U' F B R2 B L2 B' R2 B D L' D2 F' D' F' D L D2 F' U L' D L U' (26)

IF says my insertions were optimal


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## DhruvA (Aug 12, 2017)

I average about 43 moves with CFOP, blockbuilding and stuff like doing eo.
I am really lost right now with all these methods so can someone help me with what to do next.


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## T1_M0 (Aug 12, 2017)

DhruvA said:


> I average about 43 moves with CFOP, blockbuilding and stuff like doing eo.
> I am really lost right now with all these methods so can someone help me with what to do next.


Practice more efficient blockbuilding. Learn to do commutators and start finding insertions.

And, learn doing NISS! It can be an extremely helpful technique. Also pseudo blocks help a lot.

Speedcubereview's tutorial gives a nice overview of the basic fmc techniques. Definitely check that one out, it helped me a lot.


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## Bubtore (Aug 12, 2017)

Flip Open 2017 or two ways to beat Insertion finder 

S // R' U' F L2 U R2 F2 D B2 U' L2 D B F' L' D' U2 F D' B L R D B R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R B' D' R' L' B' D F' U2 D L F B' D' L2 U B2 D' F2 R2 U' L2 F' U R

L U' // 122
(L B2 D B) // XXcross
(F2 D' F' D) // F2L-1
(F2) F2 L // PTripod
(F' L F2) // 3E3C

Skel // L U' F2 L F2 L' F' D' * F D F2 B' D' B2 L' - 15
* L F L' F' L2 F' R' B D2 B' R F

Solution // L U' F2 L F2 L' F' D' L F L' F' L2 F' R' B D2 B' R F2 D F2 B' D' B2 L' - 26 Moves

Skel // L U' F2 L F2 + * L' F' D' F D F2 B' D' B2 L' - 15
* L2 U2 B' U' B U' L2
+ F2 L B L' F2 L B' L'


Solution // L U' F2 L2 B L' F2 L B' L U2 B' U' B U' L F' D' F D F2 B' D' B2 L' - 25 Moves

Optimal with seperate insertions is 27.


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## bubbagrub (Aug 12, 2017)

DhruvA said:


> I average about 43 moves with CFOP, blockbuilding and stuff like doing eo.
> I am really lost right now with all these methods so can someone help me with what to do next.



The best guide to FMC is porkynator's:

http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf

Highly recommended.


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## qaz (Aug 13, 2017)

I used a 2e2c insertion for the first time:



Spoiler



U F R' U L2 D' R L' B R2 D2 U2 L U D' R U2 L' B' F' (David Adams' Weekly FMC 185)

B2 R B // EO
D R2 U F2 B2 * // more pieces
L' U' L' U L2 U' L' D2 // pseudo F2L-1
U2 R U R' D // AB2E2C

* x2 D L Fw2 L2 D L D’ L Fw2 L' x2 // shifted 10-mover (cancels 1)

solution: B2 R B D R2 U F2 B2 U L F2 R2 D R D' R F2 L2 U' L' U L2 U' L' D2 U2 R U R' D (30)



What's the process for finding cancellations for this type of insertion? I was able to cancel 1 move but it was mostly just luck.


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## guysensei1 (Aug 13, 2017)

qaz said:


> I used a 2e2c insertion for the first time:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Memorise a lot of short 2c2e algs and hope the pieces give you a case you know.


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## okayama (Aug 13, 2017)

My mean PB (27.33) solutions from Cube Camp in Kanazawa 2017.

1st scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 R2 B2 D2 U L2 F2 L' B D' B2 R B2 D' B U' L2 F' D R' U' F
1st solution: F2 U2 D2 R F B2 U D2 B' U' B2 D' L D L' D L D' L' D B' D F' D' B D F B' (28 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: B

2x2x1 block: F2 U2
2x2x2 block: D2 R F
More 1x2x3 block: B2 U D2
F2L minus 1 slot: B' U' B2
All but 3 corners: D' L D L' D L D' L' D2
Corner 3-cycle: D' B' D F' D' B D F
Correction: B

On inverse,

Orient edges: D2 L F'
2x2x2 block: U2 F2 D L

looked interesting, but I couldn't find any good continuation.



2nd scramble: R' U' F R2 D2 L R2 D2 U2 F2 D2 L D F L' F L2 U L2 B R' D' R' U' F
2nd solution: U2 F' R2 U R' B2 R D F' D' L D2 L2 D R2 D' L2 D R' D L' B D2 R2 D U' B2 U (28 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

1st square: U2 F' R2 U
2nd square: R' B2 R
2x2x3 block: D F' D2
All but 4 corners and 3 edges: R D * B D'
Edge 3-cycle: D' R2 D U' B2 U

Insert at *: D' R' D L D' + R D L'
Insert at +: D' L2 D R2 D' L2 D R2

IF says optimal insertions give 24 moves. 



3rd scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 F2 L F2 R' U2 F2 L U' B L' U2 L U2 R D' L2 R' D' R' U' F
3rd solution: U2 R F' R' L B' L F2 R B2 R' B' R2 B2 R B' R' B2 U2 F' U B2 U' F U2 B' (26 moves)


Spoiler



20 min backup solution.

1x2x3 block: U2 R F' R'
2x2x3 block: L B' L F2
F2L minus 1 slot: R B2 R' B' R2
Orient edges: B2 R B' R'
All but 3 corners: B2 U' * B2 U B'

Insert at *: U' F' U B2 U' F U B2

On inverse, EO start U' B' U looked interesting, for example

U' B' U F' L' R F B' R' B2 R' F R' F' R F2,

but I couldn't find any good finish based on the start.



Shuto Ueno got 1st place with 26.33 mean, hopefully he will post his solutions here.


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## KAINOS (Aug 13, 2017)

Decided to post my PB solve here from a few days ago:

Scramble:
F' D2 U2 F' U2 B2 L2 U2 B L2 F' U R D' F' L D' B L' U' B'

pseudo-2x2x3: D F D B2 L' R' B' D' F B D2 (11/11)
another 2x2x1: F' R F2 R (4/15)
AB3C: D' F' D' L D L' D2 (7/22)

Skeleton:
D F D B2 L' R' B' D' F B D2 F' R * F2 R D' F' D' L D L' D2 (22)
*: R D' L D R' D' L' D

Solution:
D F D B2 L' R' B' D' F B D2 F' R2 D' L D R' D' L' D F2 R D' F' L D L' D2 (29)

I usually fix pseudoblock then continue, but instead I just kept going and it turned out to be a good choice. Also I actually did both p223 and AB3C in two steps(222 and 122, 122 and the rest) but IIRC there were 1 move cancellations in both of them. And IF says my insertion is optimal. Basically had a stroke of luck, I should say 

Now I'm curious if there's any better continuation... I'd appreciate it if anybody finds it


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## guysensei1 (Aug 13, 2017)

weekly fmc, I got a 27 and unintentionally didn't use B moves lol


Spoiler



s: F D U L2 R2 B R2 D' B2 F2 D B L2 U L2 B D F' L' D2


D' F2 L F'//EO
L F2//1x2x3
U' L2 U'//2x2x3
L ** D' L'//F2L-1
* R' D' R D2//AB4C

*=D' L' D R' D' L D R
**=R2 D L D' R2 D L' D'

Final: D' F2 L F' L F2 U' L2 U' L R2 D L D' R2 D L' D2 L' D' L' D R' D' L R D2 (27)


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## Jaysammey777 (Aug 13, 2017)

When you get 3rd at northwest champs 38 28 34 and your 1st and 3rd solutions has 5c /4c and cancled 0 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Hssandwich (Aug 14, 2017)

22.67 mean from GLS Cup IV 2017!

#1: 21

R' U' F U2 F' D2 R2 F' D2 B' F2 U2 L2 R2 D R' B' F R' B' R U2 B' R' U' F


Spoiler



(L2 U') //EO
(B) //222
(L' F' L2) //square
(F2 B' L2 B) //solve another square
(D2 L2 D2 F) //14 to 3c!

Skeleton: F' D2 L2 D2 * B' L2 B F2 L2 F L B' U L2
*[D' L2 D', R] (1 cancel)
=21 moves

And another 
(L2 U') //EO
F2 D2 F' //3 squares?!
(B L' F2 D2 F L2) //11 to 5c
Skeleton: F2 D2 @ F' L2 F' D2 F2 L & B' U L2
@ [R2, F' L2 F] (5 cancel)
& [D F D', B] (1 cancel)
=21 moves

Very nice scramble 



#2: 23
R' U' F U2 R' B2 L' U2 R2 U2 B2 L D R2 U2 R2 U' R' F' L' B2 R' F2 R' U' F



Spoiler



{L'} R2 D2 R2 B D //222 with inserted L'
{L} F' U' //223 with inserted L
F' L2 //F2L-1
L *F L'* //pairs
(U L' U' L) //F2L
(F' L F D' L D L' *F' L'*) //LL (3 moves cancel with NISS)

=23 moves



#3: 24
R' U' F R2 F2 U L2 U2 B2 D U' R' D2 U' B2 F' L R F' L2 B2 U' R' U' F


Spoiler



B' (B' R B2 R') //222
(F' D' F') //223
(L D L') //leave 3 edges + some corners

B' L @ D' L' F D F R B2 R' B &
@ D' B2 F2 R F R' F B2 D // leave 3c (2 moves cancel)
& B' L B R' B' L' B R (2 cancel)

=24 moves



A very nice set of scrambles!


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## aleph42 (Aug 15, 2017)

does anyone have a good list of commutators i can use for fmc? I just got into this and im starting from cfop, and as it is known, cfop is pretty bad in fmc. all i know for edges is u perm (but i do know the optimal one) and all i know for corners is a perm.


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## T1_M0 (Aug 16, 2017)

aleph42 said:


> does anyone have a good list of commutators i can use for fmc? I just got into this and im starting from cfop, and as it is known, cfop is pretty bad in fmc. all i know for edges is u perm (but i do know the optimal one) and all i know for corners is a perm.


You should learn them intuively (at least the corners first)


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## ChrisCuber123 (Aug 16, 2017)

dadams weekly:


Spoiler



D' F2 L F' // EO
L F2 U2 // 2x2x2
U L2 U' // 2x2x3
L D' L' // F2L-1
R' D' R D2 // L4C

skeleton: D' F2 L F' L F2 U' L2 ^ U' L D' L' * R' D' R D2
*: D' L' D R' D' L D R
^: L B' L' F' L B L' F
final solution: D' F2 L F' L F2 U' L' B' L' F' L B L' F U' L D' L' D' L' D R' D' L R D2 (27)

messed around with other starts finding nothing good for like 30 minutes, then found this skeleton in like 30 seconds


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## guysensei1 (Aug 16, 2017)

ChrisCuber123 said:


> dadams weekly:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Ayylmao we have the exact same skeleton. I posted mine on the previous page XD


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## greentgoatgal (Aug 17, 2017)

Sorry guys.. This is going to be the most over asked request ever 

FMC tutorial, please


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## Neuro (Aug 17, 2017)

Well I got a 28, but I feel it could've beeen a lot better. Can someone please show me a better solution with an explanation? I would greatly appreciate any help! Thank you!

SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 U' L2 F2 D B2 D' F2 L2 B2 L U F2 R' U B L' D B' D'

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L//2x2x3 (7/7)
F D' F'//EO (3/10)
R D R2 * D' R2 D' R D2 R2 D//L4C (10/20)

*=R2 D F U2 F' D' R2 D2 B L2 B' D2

Final Solution: D' B' R F2 D' F2 L F D' F' R D2 F U2 F' D' R2 D2 B L2 B' D R2 D' R D2 R2 D


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## CyanSandwich (Aug 17, 2017)

greentgoatgal said:


> Sorry guys.. This is going to be the most over asked request ever
> 
> FMC tutorial, please


https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/fmc-a-complete-tutorial.49162/


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## guysensei1 (Aug 17, 2017)

Neuro said:


> Well I got a 28, but I feel it could've beeen a lot better. Can someone please show me a better solution with an explanation? I would greatly appreciate any help! Thank you!
> 
> SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 U' L2 F2 D B2 D' F2 L2 B2 L U F2 R' U B L' D B' D'
> 
> ...


D' B' R F2 D' F2 L //your 2x2x3 (7/7)
D B R2 B' D' //almost an f2l, minus a cross edge (5/12)
At this point, first I tried the obvious
R2 F B' D2 F' B//insert that cross edge (6/18)
U' B2 D2 L' D' L D' B2 U R//zbll (10/28)

great! already tied your solution  But we can do better. Notice that the moves to insert the cross edge is just an edge commutator. We can leave that out and do that as an insertion.

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L //your 2x2x3 (7/7)
D B R2 B' D' //almost an f2l, minus a cross edge (5/12)
U' B2 D2 L' D' L D' B2 U R//3E (10/22)

turns out the optimal insertion requires swapping the underlined moves (which is something I neglect myself, I need to be more careful to check for these)

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L D B R2 B' U' * D' B2 D2 L' D' L D' B2 U R

*=R' L B2 R L' D2

so we get

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L D B R2 B' U' R' L B2 R L' D B2 D2 L' D' L D' B2 U R (27)


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## greentgoatgal (Aug 17, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/fmc-a-complete-tutorial.49162/


Thanks


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## Theo Leinad (Aug 19, 2017)

How would you finish following scramble with given steps until F2L-1: 

*Scramble: *
R' U' F D' L2 U2 F2 U B2 U' R2 B2 U2 L B R2 D B' F U' F' U2 R' U2 R' U' F

*Steps: *
D' B D L2 D2 B L2 (222) x7
B U' R' (221) x3
U' R' U' (Pseudo F2L-1) x3
R2 B' R B R2 (F2L-1) x5
...


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## Rcuber123 (Aug 19, 2017)

ChrisCuber123 said:


> dadams weekly:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I found that skeleton but I also found a 16 moves to l4c skeleton and a 15 moves to good l5c but optimal for all of them was 27...


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## guysensei1 (Aug 20, 2017)

weekly fmc, 27


Spoiler



s: F' B R' B R' F L' U R' B' D' R B2 L2 R' B' D2 L F R'

Inverse with premove R, (1/1)
F' L B2 U' L' B//2x2x2 (6/7)
R' F//two squares (2/9)
L D L' D//2x2x3 with random inefficiency (4/13)
R2//F2L-1 (1/14)
U' R U R'//F2L (4/18)
L' F' L' U L U' F L F'//LL (9/27)

final: R' F L' F' U L' U' L F L R U' R' U R2 D' L D' L' F' R B' L U B2 L' F (27)

yay for freefop


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## Bubtore (Aug 20, 2017)

26.00 Swiss NR mean solutions :

S // R' U' F D2 R2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D' U' R U R2 D2 B' U2 R2 B R' B' L2 F' R' U' F


Spoiler



F' B R' B' D2 F' D' F R' * // 222 + EO
B2 D2 L' // 223
D2 B2 D2 B2 // Tripod
R D R' D' // 3C

* R F R' B R F' R' B'


Solution // F' B R' B' D2 F' D' F2 R' B R F' R' B D2 L' D2 B2 D2 B2 R D R' D' - 24 Moves

S // R' U' F R' U2 L B2 D2 R' D2 R F2 L' F' R' D' B' U L' U2 R2 B D R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R D' B' R2 U2 L U' B D R F L F2 R' D2 R D2 B2 L' U2 R F' U R

(L' B' D2 B2) // 122
(U F U F) // EO
(R2 L' D' R' B2 L) // 223
(L U L' B2 U2) // 4C

Skel // U2 B2 L U' L2 B2 * R D + L R2 F' U' F' U' B2 D2 B L - 18
* B L2 B' R B L2 B' R'
+ D R D' L' D R' D' L


Solution // U2 B2 L U' L2 B' L2 B' R B L2 B' D2 R D' L' D R' D' L2 R2 F' U' F' U' B2 D2 B L - 29 Moves

S // R' U' F R2 D2 F2 R2 B' D2 R2 B R2 B L R B' L2 F L' B' L' U B R' U' F


Spoiler



I // F' U R B' U' L B L F' L2 B R' L' B' R2 B' R2 D2 B R2 F2 D2 R2 F' U R

(F2 L2 B') // EO
(D F2 L' D2) // 222
(U2 L * B2 L2 B2) // 223
(U L' U' L2 U' L2 U L) // 3C

* L' B R2 B' L B R2 B'


 Solution // L' U' L2 U L2 U L U' B2 L2 B' R2 B' L' B R2 B' U2 D2 L F2 D' B L2 F2 - 25 Moves


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## ChrisCuber123 (Aug 21, 2017)

Bubtore said:


> 26.00 Swiss NR mean solutions :
> 
> S // R' U' F D2 R2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D' U' R U R2 D2 B' U2 R2 B R' B' L2 F' R' U' F
> 
> ...



Nice mean! I tried these scrambles, here are my solutions:

1. F' R' D B2 L' F' L B2 L' F D' L U L' D' L D' R2 D' U' R D' R' D' U2 F' U2 L' (28 moves)


Spoiler



F' (L U2 F) // EO (4/4)
R' U (U') // 2x2x2 (3/7)
D L' D2 L // 2x2x3 (4/11)
D' R2 // F2L-1 - 1C (2/13)
D' U' R D' R' D' U // L5C (6/19)
skeleton: F' R' D * U L' D2 L D' R2 D' U' R D' R' D' U2 F' U2 L' (19)
*: L' ^ D' L U L' D L U' (3/22)
^: L B2 L' F' L B2 L' F (6/28)



2. R2 D B' R' B2 F2 R U' L2 U R U' L U R2 U' L U' L2 D U R U' R2 U R' U B (28 moves)


Spoiler



(B') R2 D B' // EO (4/4)
R' B2 F2 U2 L2 D U // psF2L-1 - 1C (7/11)
R U' R2 U R' U // L5C (6/17)
skeleton: R2 D B' R' B2 F2 * U2 L2 D U R U' R2 U R' U B (17)
*: R2 ^ U' L' U R2 U' L U (7/24)
^: R' U' L2 U R U' L2 U (4/28)



3. U D' L U' L' D U' L U R' U2 R U2 D2 L F' D B D' F' D B' D2 B L2 F2 (26 moves)


Spoiler



(F2 L2 B') // EO (3/3)
(D F2 L' D2) // 2x2x2 (4/7)
(U2 R' U2 R) // 2x2x3 (4/11)
(U' L' U L U L' U') // L5C (7/18)
skeleton: U * L U' L' U' L U R' U2 R U2 D2 L F2 ^ D' B L2 F2
*: D' L U' L' D L U L' (2/20)
^: F D B D' F' D B' D' (6/26)



28, 28, 26 = 27.33 mean


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## Theo Leinad (Aug 21, 2017)

Hello people, 
I have a suggestion for the ultimate FMC technique, please help me understanding if this approach is good or not 
The steps to follow are pretty simple, this just came to my mind and need help to summarize and get the numbers right.
1. EO is very recommendable (3-4movs)
2. Do all the edges (Skeleton) (10-14? movs)
3. L8C (3 Inserts Avg) in some cases we might find less corners to solve (we called them lucky corners)

So in Step 1, I would like to know how many moves are required to have all the edges solved. 
In step 2, if we only focus on 8 movers for insertions, it should be about 24 moves avg minus cancelled moves.
Steps to improve (Corner Orientation)

Does anyone have tried this? 
Why is this or is not optimal?
Any comments?

Thank you.


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## sqAree (Aug 21, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> Hello people,
> I have a suggestion for the ultimate FMC technique, please help me understanding if this approach is good or not
> The steps to follow are pretty simple, this just came to my mind and need help to summarize and get the numbers right.
> 1. EO is very recommendable (3-4movs)
> ...



Hm, I'd say 8 corners are not solvable with 3 comms most of the time especially as there might be twisted corners. But even without those it doesn't seem too likely.
But even if, with 24 + 10 + 3 = 37 moves we get a quite bad result considering world class FMC cubers average consistently sub30 moves. There won't be too many cancellations as it's a quite short skeleton in the beginning and even just two insertions can be hard to get optimal.


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## Theo Leinad (Aug 21, 2017)

Well, after first insertion, skeleton gets larger, so you can insert next set of corners, but remember since you have 2 insertions, you might be able to do the last insert instead of the second one... 
You have many options for the insertions... 
But it's true, it'll be hard to do optimal inserts.. 
I'm aiming to reduce the skeleton to sub 30 with this technique... 
As I stated, this just came to my mind, so need to try it a couple of times to see if its powerful or not


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## ChrisCuber123 (Aug 21, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> Hello people,
> I have a suggestion for the ultimate FMC technique, please help me understanding if this approach is good or not
> The steps to follow are pretty simple, this just came to my mind and need help to summarize and get the numbers right.
> 1. EO is very recommendable (3-4movs)
> ...



This just won't work. It's pretty rare that you can solve 8 corners in 3 comms, often you'll need 4 or 5. This makes adding 32-40 moves to a 15ish moves skeleton, minus cancellations. Even if you get 1 or 2 corners solved unintentionally, it's still pretty likely that a corner or 2 will be twisted. It's much more efficient to make blocks and solve up to a 3c/4c/5c skeleton


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## hagner (Aug 22, 2017)

dadams weekly fmc 188

pb 32



Spoiler



scramble: F' L U F B2 U2 F2 L' B D U2 F R' D2 F B L R2 F L'

(U) B2 R2 F //2x2x2 inserted move in ( )
(B) U’ B’ L’ B’ R’ B2’ R’ B2 L B’ //F2L-1 inserted move in ( )
R U R2 U’ R2 U’ R2 U2 //last pair and OLL “cancelled move(s)”
R’ F2 R’ B’ R F2 R’ B R’ //A perm “cancelled move(s)”


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## BenBergen (Aug 22, 2017)

28 - new PB

B2 L2 R U2 L2 U2 F2 R' B2 D2 B2 U L' D' U' L F' R U2 B' L2

L2 B' * R' U' F L B2 // 2x2x2
U R2 U2 R F' R U // 2x2x3
R2 D' F' D // EO
F' R2 // F2L-1

By some miracle, after F2L-1 I was left with only a corner 3-cycle. I couldn't solve it with an 8-mover right away, so I found a spot in the solve where I could insert an 8-move commutator.

* - D F2 D' B' D F2 D' B // L3C

Unfortuantely, I ran out of time before finding an insertion with any cancellations. This could have easily been a 26 or 27 with an extra 10 minutes.

L2 B' D F2 D' B' D F2 D' B R' U' F L B2 U R2 U2 R F' R U R2 D' F' D F' R2


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## Jaysammey777 (Aug 23, 2017)

Michigan 2017: 39, 27, 29

Redid Scramble 1 and found this in under 10 minutes:


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F U2 F2 D' L2 U2 B2 U' B2 F2 U' L' U2 R B' L D' U F' L' B' D R' U' F

2x2x2R' B' U2 D' F) (5/5)
2x2x3: (L U2 L U B2) (5/10)
F2L-1: (L2 U' L2) (3/13)
F2L: (B' U' B) (3/16)
AB3C: (B L U' L' B' R' U R) (7/23)
Insertion finder cancels 2 for 29 


Didn't really look for more, pretty sad could have gotten a 28.33 mean


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## porkynator (Aug 23, 2017)

Version 2.0 of my FMC tutorial is here! Basically it just look better, but I have also updated some stuff (like records and links) and added examples and pictures. See the first pages for more about what's new.

The old link still works. The old version is available here.


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## qaz (Aug 26, 2017)

Not that great of a solve, but good for me because I found nearly optimal insertions in ~16 minutes 



Spoiler



scramble: B' L' R2 D L F R' L U' B' L R2 D' U2 B' F2 D B2 L' R2 (David Adams 184)

(L' D' L U') // 1x2x3
B' F2 U F2 // pseudo 2x2x3
(F) // fix pseudo-ness
R2 U2 F L F' U2 R2 // EO
D2 B2 D2 // AB5C

skeleton: B' F2 U F2 R2 U2 F L F' * U2 R2 D2 B2 D2 F' U L' D L (19)
* [F D F', U2] - cancels 4

skeleton: B' F2 U F2 R2 U2 F L * D F' U2 F D' F' R2 D2 B2 D2 F' U L' D L (23)
* [L', D R' D'] - cancels 4

skeleton: B' F2 U F2 R2 U2 F D R' * D' L D R F' U2 F D' F' R2 D2 B2 D2 F' U L' D L (27)
* [R, B' L B] - cancels 2

final: B' F2 U F2 R2 U2 F D B' L B R' B' L' B D' L D R F' U2 F D' F' R2 D2 B2 D2 F' U L' D L (33)

IF says optimal was 32


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## Sebastien (Aug 27, 2017)

My solutions from the final round of Only FMC 2017:

1st scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 R' F2 D2 F2 U2 F2 R' B' D' F' U' R2 F' U L' R U2 F' R' U' F


Spoiler: Solution



2*2x2x1: U2 L' F' R
Pseudo-F2L-1: D B U2 R2 D' F2
3E3C: D R B * R2 B' D2 F'

* = D' R2 D R D' R D R2 (Inverted Anti-sune)

Solution: U2 L' F' R D B U2 R2 D' F2 D R B D' R2 D R D' R D B' D2 F'

23 moves.

Comment: Once more thanks to Guus for his remark on inserting Sunes at Eat Sleep Cube Repeat 2014! 



2nd scramble: R' U' F L2 F2 D2 R2 D2 R2 B2 R2 U L2 D' B' L' F U2 R U B' U2 R D2 R' U' F


Spoiler: Solution



EO+2x2x1+pairs: R * U B L
2x2x2: F' U2

at this point I first switched and found the following L3C: F D2 B D2 B' D2 F' R2 F' R2 F U R2 U' R2

However, after putting the skeleton together, I noticed that I could get the same L3C in a slightly shorter way:

2x2x3 + many blocks: R2 U R2 U' B' D2
L3C: B2 R2 B R2 B' R2 B' R2

* = R' F L' F' R F L F'

Solution: F L' F' R F L F' U B L F' U2 R2 U R2 U' B' D2 B2 R2 B R2 B' R2 B' R2

26 moves.

Comment: I wouldn't be too surprised if someone finds a better finish for this start.



3rd scramble: R' U' F U2 F2 U2 R2 U2 L2 R2 U' L' F2 L' U L2 B R2 F2 U' L U' R' U' F


Spoiler: Solution



2*2x2x1: F2 U' L U2
2x2x3: (L' F2 R')
F2L-1: D2 R' B R2 L' D' L

I did the R2 to save the other 3 move pair so that R' D2 B' D' B would give F2L. I then noticed that the OLL would skip and saw, that I could also solve the last F2L pair differently to cancel into OLL:

F2L: F D' F' D2 R'
OLL+Skip: R D F D2 F' D' F D F' R'

Luckily, the end also cancels with the inverse part. 

Solution: F2 U' L U2 D2 R' B R2 L' D' L F D' F' D' F D2 F' D' F D F L

23 moves.

Comment: I guess this is what you could call "the lucky one". I certainly won't complain that everything cancelled so nicely.  At this point in the solve, I already had a 25 (PB mean!!!) from a completely different start (giving L3C in 20), but this solution was definitely the ice on the cake. 



23, 26, 23 = 24,00 mean of 3


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## BQ (Aug 28, 2017)

Sebastien said:


> 2x2x3: (L' F2 R)


The last move should be R'.


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## Sebastien (Aug 28, 2017)

Edited, thanks.


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## porkynator (Aug 28, 2017)

Sebastien said:


> My solutions from the final round of Only FMC 2017:
> 
> 1st scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 R' F2 D2 F2 U2 F2 R' B' D' F' U' R2 F' U L' R U2 F' R' U' F
> 
> ...



Huge congrats!
I wouldn't say the last one is very luck. Knowledge of LL algs and spotting the alternative last pair insertion that lead to the same OLL is not luck  Cancelling 3 moves with premoves kinda is, but whatever.
I think the first one was luckier. Or do you think inserting a sune in 8-2=6 moves is normal? I did it recentely and I though inserting it in 7 or 8 moves was very lucky. Is there a special technique that Guus told you?


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## Sebastien (Aug 28, 2017)

Thanks Sebastiano!

Well, you are definitely right, 6 moves for an inserted sune is definitely better than average, I would probably consider 9 as normal. 

About Guus: No, and sorry if I made you curious. At that competition, I had a 27 with 3 edges and 3 twisted corners that I solved using a block-commutator and a corner commutator and we talked about that solution. So he asked me, why I didn't check if I could insert a sune, which I simply had forgotton about during this attempt. That just stuck in my mind and since, I always check for sune insertion in such cases and always have to think at Guus when actually inserting one.


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## Theo Leinad (Aug 28, 2017)

Sorry, but how do you insert a sune into a skeleton/solution? is that for L3E+L3C ?


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## BQ (Aug 29, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> Sorry, but how do you insert a sune into a skeleton/solution? is that for L3E+L3C ?


A sune changes 3 edges and twitsts 3 corners. That was Sebastien's case.


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## DGCubes (Aug 29, 2017)

I read most of @porkynator's book yesterday and learned a ton from it. Here's my first FMC solution with 2 insertions from this week's SS weekly comp:



Spoiler: Solution



Scramble: B2 F2 D R2 U L2 U2 B2 U2 B2 U L B L2 D' U2 L F R' D2 R

(R B U) // EO
(L R' B' R B R') // A bunch of blocks
B' F L F L' B R F R' // To L4C

Skeleton (16): B' F L F * L' B R F B' R' B R L' U' B' R'

* = B' R2 B L B' R2 @ B L' (1 move canceled)
@ = R' B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 (1 move canceled)

Solution (30): B' F L F B' R2 B L B' R B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 B L2 B R F B' R' B R L' U' B' R'

Unfortunately I ran out of time, so I found the quickest insertions I could. IF found a few 25 move solutions that canceled 7 moves though. Really happy with my skeleton, but I definitely need to get faster at finding quick insertions.



Also, a question: I had a couple moves written down incorrectly that I changed within 10 seconds of time being up. Generally speaking, how strict are you guys with the hour time limit? At what point would you just consider it a DNF?

By the way, thanks @porkynator!! Your book is amazingly helpful!


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## thecubingwizard (Aug 30, 2017)

Spoiler: Speedsolving Weekly FMC (28)



This was for 2017-34, but I did the attempt after the results were posted.

Scramble: D R B D B' U F2 B2 R' F2 U L2 D R2 F2 U2 L2 D R2

Solution: All on Normal Scramble
D2 B U' D B' ||| 2X2X2
L' B' U2 B U' ||| Added a Roux block
F L2 U' ^ F U ||| Broke the Roux block slightly, but added a square to blue
F2 L' U' F2 U L2 D' L' D ||| Played around with blocks for AB3C

^ = U L2 U' R' U L2 U' R

Final Solution (28) = D2 B U' D B' L' B' U2 B U' F U' R' U L2 U' R F U F2 L' U' F2 U L2 D' L' D

Pretty good solve for me, and one of my more weird solutions.
I think this is like my 7th or 8th sub-30.
PB is still 27 lol.


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## guysensei1 (Aug 30, 2017)

Dadams weekly, 28


Spoiler



All on inverse
U R' B2 U B' R'//2x2x2
D2 F D2//2x2x3
F U' F U L' F2 L2//F2L-1
U' F U F2 L F' L' F L F2 L' F//lsll


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## jschwarz21 (Aug 30, 2017)

For the UCB Weekly FMC

D U' R U B2 L' // 2X2X2 (6/6)
(B' F' D' F B D2 F D) // F2L-2 (8/14)
R F R F' R' D' R' D // F2L-1 (8/22)
R U' R U R2 F R2 F' R' // AB4C (9/31)

Skeleton: D U' R U B2 L' R # F R F' R' D' R' D @ R U' R U R2 F R2 F' R D' F' D2 B' F' D F B
Insert at #: R B R' F R B' R' F'
Insert at @: R U' R' D R U R' D'
14 moves canceled, 33 moves total


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## jschwarz21 (Sep 4, 2017)

Tied my PB single of 29 on a practice solve.



Spoiler: Solution



Normal: D B2 R2 F L2 B' L2 B' R2 B D2 B2 U' B' U' R U' L' R2 F R'

F B2 L' // 2 Heise Squares (3/3)
R' F U # F' U' // 3 Heise Squares (5/8)
R D R' D2 R2 D R D' B' // F2L-1 (9/17)
F D' F' D2 // AB3C (4/21)

Insert at #: U2 R2 U L' U R2 U' L U'

Final: F B2 L' R' F U' R2 U' L' U R2 U' L U' F' U' R D R' D2 R2 D R D' B' F D' F' D2 (29 moves)


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## guysensei1 (Sep 4, 2017)

1. R L2 D U R2 B2 R2 U' R2 B2 D2 R2 B' R U' R D' U B2 U F'

F' D L * B R U' R2//2x2x2 (7/7)
D' B' L D2 L'//2x2x3 (5/12)
B2 R D' R' B' D' B'//3E (7/19)

*= R' B R B R B R' B' R' B'

Final: F' D L R' B R B R B R' B' U' R2 D' B' L D2 L' B2 R D' R' B' D' B' (25)

Tried a different start and used a sune insertion

L2 B L' R' U L U D L U // 2X2X3
(B U' B D B' D' B2 U)//3C3E

Skeleton: L2 B R' (1) L' U L U D L B2 D B D' B' U (2) B'
(1)= R D R' D R D2 R' D2
(2)=U' L2 F2 R2 D' F2 L2 B2

Final is 27


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## EMI (Sep 4, 2017)

Won German Nationals with a 25.33 average, tying my PB from last year's nationals 

24, 25, 27 = 25.33

Nothing fancy in the solutions.



Spoiler: Solutions



1st scramble: R' U' F U2 F2 R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 L' U2 B' R B2 F' L B F2 U F2 D' R' U' F

1x2x3: F2 L2 D F
2x2x3: (L' F2 L) L'
F2L-1: (R2 D')
L3C: (B2 U' B' U R' B' R)

Skeleton: F2 L2 D F L' R' B R U' B U @ B2 D R2 L' F2 L
@ = L' B R2 B' L B R2 B'

Solution: F2 L2 D F L' R' B R U' B U L' B R2 B' L B R2 B D R2 L' F2 L

2nd scramble: R' U' F R2 D2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D' R2 B D' F2 L B L' F L' F2 U B' R' U' F

2x2x2: U2 F2 L' F
2x2x3: R' U' R2 (R)
EO: L U L'
L3C: (B U2 B' D' U2 B U2 B' D)

Skeleton: U2 F2 L' F R' U' @ L R2 U L' D' B U2 B' U2 D B U2 B' R'
@ = U L' D2 L U' L' D2 L

Solution: U2 F2 L' F R' L' D2 L U' L' D2 L2 R2 U L' D' B U2 B' U2 D B U2 B' R'

3rd scramble: R' U' F D2 U2 F2 D2 R U2 L D2 R2 D2 B U' L' B2 F D' R2 U2 B2 R F R' U' F

2x2x2: D' L' B2 D' B'
Pseudo-2x2x3: (U2 F' R2)
Pseudo-F2L-1: (F2 U2 R U' R')
L3E: (F U' R B U B' U')

Skeleton: D' L' B2 D' B' U B U' B' R' U F' R U R' U2 F2 @ R2 F U2
@ = U' R' L F2 L' R U'

Solution: D' L' B2 D' B' U B U' B' R' U F' R U R' U2 F2 U' R' L F2 L' R U' R2 F U2


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## Bubtore (Sep 4, 2017)

My solution for the second attempt :

S // R' U' F R2 D2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D' R2 B D' F2 L B L' F L' F2 U B' R' U' F
I // F' U R B U' F2 L F' L B' L' F2 D B' R2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 D2 R2 F' U R

(R' F' U F2 U R U) // 223
(L2 F2 R F' L' F R') // F2L-1
(F2 R' D L' D' L D' R F2 L2) // Finish

Solution // L2 F2 R' D L' D L D' R F2 R F' L F R' F2 L2 U' R' U' F2 U' F R - 24 Moves

The other two solutions are not worth sharing as they were just bad ...


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## guysensei1 (Sep 7, 2017)

1)R U2 F2 U2 F2 R2 D2 L B2 F2 R2 U B U F2 R' U2 B L2 

All on inverse
U' F' D2 R2 F2//2x2x2 (5/5)
B2 D'//2x2x3 (2/7)
D L2 D2 B' D//EO (5-2/12-2)
B' L2 B' L B L2 B//4C3E (7/17)

Skeleton: B' L2 B' L' B L2 B D' B D2 L2 * B2 F2 R2 D2 F U

*= U B' U' B//solve edges, leaves gj6C, cancels 1

B' L2 B' L' B L2 B D' B D2 L2 @ U B' U' B' F2 R2 D2 F U
@=B' D2 B U B' D2 B U', cancels 4
B' L2 B' L' B L2 B D' B D2 L2 B' D2 B U B' U' ! D2 B' F2 R2 D2 F U
!=U B D B' U' B D' B', cancels 4
Final: B' L2 B' L' B L2 B D' B D2 L2 B' D2 B U D B' U' B D' B' D2 B' F2 R2 D2 F U (28)

Does anyone have a better ending :/


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## DGCubes (Sep 8, 2017)

Speedsolving weekly comp solution:



Spoiler: 26 move solution



Scramble: L2 F2 R2 U B2 D2 B2 F2 U' L2 U R' B' F' D' B' D' R' F2 D' U2

(L B2 F L2 R U B' U L' F D' F' D) // F2L minus 1 edge
R' B R B' // AB5C (realized afterwards that this was really easy on inverse too, lol)

Skeleton (17 to L5C): R' $ B R B' D' F D F' L U' * B U' R' L2 F' B2 L'

$ = R B2 R' F' R B2 R' F (cancel 2)
* = U' F' U B U' F U B' (cancel 5)

Solution (26): B2 R' F' R B2 R' F B R B' D' F D F' L U2 F' U B U' F R' L2 F' B2 L'

Really happy with this solution. Ties my PB! 
Oh also, insertion finder didn't find anything for this one; can it not do 5-cycles of corners?


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## qaz (Sep 8, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> 1)R U2 F2 U2 F2 R2 D2 L B2 F2 R2 U B U F2 R' U2 B L2
> 
> All on inverse
> U' F' D2 R2 F2//2x2x2 (5/5)
> ...


(U' F' D2 R2 F2) //2x2x2
(B2 D') //2x2x3
R F' L' D' L F R' // EO
R B' L2 B R' // F2L-1
L' B L2 B' // AB3C

skeleton: R F' L' D' L F B' L2 B R' L' B L2 B' D B2 F2 R2 D2 F * U (21)
* F' L' F R F' L F R' - cancels 2

final: R F' L' D' L F B' L2 B R' L' B L2 B' D B2 F2 R2 D2 L' F R F' L F R' U (27)

One move better lol


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## Cale S (Sep 8, 2017)

DGCubes said:


> Oh also, insertion finder didn't find anything for this one; can it not do 5-cycles of corners?



worked fine for me, it also got 26


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## williamwhizz (Sep 9, 2017)

some lol solution i got when practicing fmc haha

Scramble: R2 B2 L F2 B' L' F U' B2 R2 F2 R F2 L D2 B2 L D2 B

(U D L2 B) // pseudo 2x2x2
D' F' L' F U // 2x2x3
F U L' U' F D F2 D' // pseudo F2L
(L' U' F' U F' U' F2 U F') //ayylmao
Final : D' F' L' F U F U L' U' F D F2 D' F U' F2 U F U' F U L B' L2 D' U' (26)


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## guysensei1 (Sep 9, 2017)

williamwhizz said:


> some lol solution i got when practicing fmc haha
> 
> Scramble: R2 B2 L F2 B' L' F U' B2 R2 F2 R F2 L D2 B2 L D2 B
> 
> ...


Post the amazing 23 pls


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## williamwhizz (Sep 9, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> Post the amazing 23 pls


It's from one of the weeklys btw, probably will never happen to me ever again

Scramble: U2 B' D2 F' R B' F' L2 D2 U' L2 U2 D R F L2 D' R U D

Inverse, (F2 R2) // 2x2x2
switch, D' F2 B D B' D' F' // 2x2x3 (keyhole to insert corner)
switch, (L2 D') // pseudo square
switch, D' // insert square = F2L-1
switch, (F L F') // 3C + 2 flipped edges
Skeleton: D' F2 B D B' D' F' D' F L' F' D L2 R2 * F2 (15)
* : L2 D R' D' L2 D R D' cancels 2

Skeleton 2 : D' F2 B D B' D' F' D' @ F L' F' D R2 D R' D' # L2 D R D' F2 (21)
@ : D U' R F' R' D' U F L F' cancels 10 WTF (I tried to find a comm to cancel 6 moves, ended up cancelling 4 more lmao)

# : D' U B2 D U' L2 cancels 4 ( At this point, I just used stickers to find any possible 6 move edge comms, and then I found hax lel)

Final: D' F2 B D B' D' F' U' R F' R' U R2 D R' D2 U B2 U' D2 R D' F2 (23)


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## Bubtore (Sep 9, 2017)

Always testing out new insertions :

Scramble of Champagne Open 2017 // R' U' F D' F2 D' L2 U' L2 F2 U' L' U2 L' B U2 L D' B' R U F2 R' U' F

B U F2 R' // 222
D' B' // EO
L D2 // 223
D L' D' L' // Blocs
U' L U L' B2 L' B2 L // L5E

Skel // B U F2 R' D' B' L # D' L' D' L' U' L U L' B2 L' B2 L
# B2 D2 L D2 B2 D2 L D2

Solution // B U F2 R' D' B' L B2 D2 L D2 B2 D2 L D L' D' L' U' L U L' B2 L' B2 L - 26 Moves


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## guysensei1 (Sep 10, 2017)

Lol i accidentally re-did last week's weekly fmc thinking it was this week's, and got a 25

D' U L' U B2 D2 F R' U2 L' D' U R' B' F D' L2 R2 B2 F'

Inv
U' D' F' U2 R//222
Switch
D' B D2 B' F2//223
B D' B' D2 L D'//3C3E

Skeleton: D' B D2 F2 D' B' * D2 L D' R' U2 F U D

*=B2 L' U' ** L U B2//dat insertion tho
**=B' L F' L' B L F L'

Final: D' B D2 F2 D' B L' U' B' L F' L' B L F U B2 D2 L D' R' U2 F U D (25)


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## coldsun0630 (Sep 11, 2017)

24 HTM w/ Roux method

Scramble: F D2 L2 U2 F' U2 B2 F R2 D' R' B L D U2 R2 F D2 R'


Spoiler



B2 L' B' U' B2 D' U2 // FB (7/7)
F' L2 B' U F // SB (5/12)
U' F' U2 F' B2 D F' D B // CMLL (9/21)
R' B' F // LSE (3/24)


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## Isaac Lai (Sep 12, 2017)

Dadams weekly (26)


Spoiler



(D’ L’) // square
(R’ U2 R F) // 2x2x2 (the R is a “random move” added later)
(R B D’) // 2x2x3
(B’ R2 B R2) // F2L-1
D B’ D’ // F2L
D’ R’ B’ R B D // AB4C

Skeleton: D B’ D2 R’ B’ R B D R2 ** B’ R2 B D B’ * R’ F’ R’ U2 R L D (21)

Insert at *: B R’ F2 R B’ R’ F2 R (cancels 5)
Insert at **: L B’ R2 B L’ B’ R2 B (cancels 6)

Solution: D B’ D2 R’ B’ R B D R2 L B’ R2 B L’ D R’ F2 R B’ R’ F R’ U2 R L D (26)

Extremely lucky with the insertions  PB though


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## guysensei1 (Sep 12, 2017)

Dadams weekly (27)


Spoiler



Scramble: B' U' R B F U' B2 R' U2 F' D R L F2 R2 B' D' F B2 D

F R' D2//pseudo 2x2x2
(D' L' U' L U2 F' U2 F')//2x2x3
F' U2 F R'//4C3E

F R' D2 F' U2 @ * F R' F U2 F U2 L' U L D

*=F U F' U F U2 F'//a sune to solve 4C, hmm. Leaves a 2-2 swap of edges
@=R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R

Final: F R' D2 F' U2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R F U F' U F U2 R' F U2 F U2 L' U L D (27)


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## williamwhizz (Sep 13, 2017)

Dadams weekly (28)


Spoiler



D' F L' R' B2 D' R B2 R B//2x2x2 + 1x2x3 (10/10) 
(R2 U2 R B' R')//correction + F2L-1 (5/15)
(L U' L' U')//4C (4/19)
Skeleton: D' F # L' R' B2 D' R B2 R B ^ U L U L' R B R' U2 R2 (19)
^ : B' U F U' B U F' U' cancels 4
#: F' D2 F U' F' D2 F U cancels 3
Final: D F U' F' D2 F U L' R' B2 D' R B2 R U F U' B U F' L U L' R B R' U2 R2 (28)

Here's some lol solution i also found 

D' F L' R' D'//2x2x2 (5/5)
(B R' B' L U L' B2) //2x2x3 (7/12)
(B U' B2 U' R' U B)//F2L-1 (7/19)
(R U R2 U' R2 U R' U')//F2L (8/27)
(D R D' R D R2 D') // ayyylmao (7/34)
4 move cancellation in solution gives:
D' F L' R D' R' D R' D' U R U' R2 U R2 U' R' B' U' R U B2 U B L U' L' B R B' (30)


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## Cale S (Sep 16, 2017)

Probably my favorite FMC solution I've ever done
German comp spoilers


Spoiler



R' U' F L2 D2 B2 D2 F2 R2 F2 R U2 B R' D' B2 U L' F2 D L2 R U2 R' U' F

(D2 F' B U) // Pseudo 2x2x2
L' B' R D2 // 2x2x3
B' L // 3c5e

L' B' R D2 B' L U' B' F D2 @
@ = [B' R2: M' U M U'] // 5-cycle 

L' B' R D2 B' L U' B' F D2 B' R L F ^ R L' U' R2 B
^ = [F', L' B2 L]

Solution: L' B' R D2 B' L U' B' F D2 B' R B2 L F L' B2 R U' R2 B
21 Moves

current mo3 is 21, 31, 21 :/


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## guysensei1 (Sep 18, 2017)

Woaj 26.33 mo3

#1, 28
Scramble: R' U L2 U L2 R2 U R2 F2 D' U F2 B L' B' D2 L' R U' R F 


Spoiler



(U' R U D')//1x2x3 (4/4)
F R' F' U F'// 2x2x3 (5/9)
(L' U' L U)//pseudo F2L-1 (4/13)
(B2 L B L')//pseudo F2L (4/17)
(R B2 R2 B' R2 B' R2 B2 R B' L')//LL+pseudo correction(11/28)

Final: F R' F' U F' L B R' B2 R2 B R2 B R2 B2 R' L B' L' B2 U' L' U L D U' R' U (28)



#2, 26
Scramble: B2 L2 R2 U' R2 D U2 R2 D2 B' F' D' R B F' R' U' L' U' 


Spoiler



(L' F L2 U' F2 U F2 L2)//pseudo 2x2x3 (8/8)
(R L' D L R')//2 pairs (5-1/13-1)
(R' B2 L B' L' R)//F2L-1 while preserving pair (6-1/18-1)
(D L' D L)//3C (4/21)
L2//correct pseudo (1-1/22-1)

Skeleton: L D' L D' R' L B L' B2 R2 L' D' L' * R' F2 U' F2 U L2 F' L

*=L D2 L' U L D2 L' U'

Final: L D' L D' R' L B L' B2 R2 L' D L' U L D2 L' U' R' F2 U' F2 U L2 F' L (26)



#3, 25
Scramble: R2 L D' F U2 F U' D F2 R2 B' U2 R2 B D2 B2 R2 D2 L2


Spoiler



U R2 (L U' F)//2x2x2 (5/5)
B' U B'//EO (3/8)
(B2 U2 L2)//F2L-1 (3/11)
(L2 U' L2 U' L2 U2 L2)//F2L (7-3/18-3)
(F U2 F D B' R2 B D' F2 U')//LL (10/25)

Final: U R2 B' U B' U F2 D B' R2 B D' F' U2 F' L2 U2 L2 U L2 U' B2 F' U L' (25)


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## guysensei1 (Sep 18, 2017)

Dadams weekly, 25


Spoiler



S: U' F' D2 L' R' U2 F B2 D2 L' B D R2 U B D2 R U' B2 D2

(L2 F' R' D' B R U')//pseudo 2x2x3 (7/7)
U F U F' U' F//correction+F2L-1 (6/13)
R D R2 D' R'//AB5C (5/18)

Skeleton: U F U F' U' F R D R2 D' * R U R' B' D R F L2
*=D' R U R' ** D R U' R' (cancels 7 dafuq)
**=R D' R' U2 R D R' U2

Final: U F U F' U' F R D R2 D2 R U D' R' U2 R D R' U2 D B' D R F L2 (25)


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## ChrisCuber123 (Sep 18, 2017)

here's a hard scramble for you guys to try:
R' U' F U2 L2 R2 F2 D' R2 B2 U2 L2 R D F U' B R2 F U' L2 R' U F R' U' F


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## Cale S (Sep 21, 2017)

ChrisCuber123 said:


> here's a hard scramble for you guys to try:
> R' U' F U2 L2 R2 F2 D' R2 B2 U2 L2 R D F U' B R2 F U' L2 R' U F R' U' F



24

after 6 minutes found a 29 ending with R U2 R2 F R F' U2 R' F R F', then found this with around 8 minutes left



Spoiler



(D B R U' F) // EO
(L' R D R' U R D' B2) // 2x2x3
(F2 D) // 3e5c

D' F2 B2 D R' U' R D' R' L F' ^ U R' B' D' 
^ = U2 R D2 @ R' D2 U2
@ = [D2, R U R']

Solution: D' F2 B2 D R' U' R D' R' L F' U2 R2 U R' D2 R U' R2 D2 U' R' B' D'


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## hagner (Sep 23, 2017)

while i was at my last comp i discovered that all scrambles for fmc started and ended with R' U' F. ive now looked at every comp fmc in the wca export file and in the last year 99% of all fmc scrambles have started and ended with R' U' F, before that they start and end randomly.

what is this???!!!


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## Isaac Lai (Sep 23, 2017)

hagner said:


> while i was at my last comp i discovered that all scrambles for fmc started and ended with R' U' F. ive now looked at every comp fmc in the wca export file and in the last year 99% of all fmc scrambles have started and ended with R' U' F, before that they start and end randomly.
> 
> what is this???!!!


It was a new regulation introduced last year which put an arbitrary set of moves before and after the random state scramble itself so as to prevent parts of the scrambling algorithm from being used in the solution. This was prompted by a solve in what would have been a WR mean by Linus Fresz where his first 11 moves matched the inverse of the scramble.


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## porkynator (Sep 23, 2017)

Isaac Lai said:


> It was a new regulation introduced last year which put an arbitrary set of moves before and after the random state scramble itself so as to prevent parts of the scrambling algorithm from being used in the solution. This was prompted by a solve in what would have been a WR mean by Linus Fresz where his first 11 moves matched the inverse of the scramble.


Correct, but I just want to clarify that Linus didn't do that on purpose. But the regulations state that this leads to a DNF, even if it is done unintentionally.


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## guysensei1 (Sep 23, 2017)

Had a chance to use center insertions!

B' U R D L' F' U' B2 D F2 R' B2 R' U2 B2 R B2 R' U2 R F2 R 

U2 R' D'//2x2x3 around wrong centers (3/3)
U * B2 R B R' B' U' B//F2L-1 (8/11)
R' F R' F' R U' R//F2L (7/18)
R B L' B L B2 R'//LL (7-1/25-1)

*=E' M E M'

and then I ran out of time because I spent too long trying to write the final solution 

Final: U2 R' F' B R' L U' D L2 U L U' L' F' L U' R U' R' U F' U2 L D' L D L2 U' (28)


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## guysensei1 (Sep 25, 2017)

Dadams weekly, 24 


Spoiler



S: R' F' U B R F U R D' U2 B' R2 F L R2 U2 L' F2 U' B2

F2 R' (U2 F' U)//2x2x2
(B D2 B2 L' D2)//2x2x3
(U' L U L' U' L2 U)//4C4E

F2 R' U' L2 U L U' L' U D2 L B2 D2 B' U' F * U2

Reverse NISS at *, it's a 4 cycle of pairs! So I tried this:

D2 R' D2 R L'//F2L-1
L F2 L' F2//LL skip 

Gives 24


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## hagner (Sep 27, 2017)

scramble: F R2 D2 F2 D B' F L2 R2 B2 U B D U L2 D2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D U' B' F' U



Spoiler



L2 // 2x2x2
D2 B D2 // 1st 2x2x1
R2 // another 2x2x1
B2 D' B2 R2 // reassemble 1st 2x2x1
B2 D' // F2L-1
R F' R F R' F' R' F' // F2L
D R D' R' D' F2 U2 F' D F U2 F2 // T-case and a perm



pb 31 but I won't count it cuz the scramble was on an easy scramble thread

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/easy-fmc-scramble.3052/


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## porkynator (Sep 27, 2017)

hagner said:


> scramble: F R2 D2 F2 D B' F L2 R2 B2 U B D U L2 D2 F2 R2 F2 R2 D U' B' F' U



I've found this skeleton very quickly:

L2 //2x2x2 (1/1)
B' R2 B' D2 U' B' U //F2L-1 (7/8)

Then insertion finder finishes in 21


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## BQ (Sep 28, 2017)

Does anyone has good solution on this start? It's the scramble of Xuchang Open 2017.


Spoiler



Scramble:
R' U' F L' D2 R2 D2 R' B2 L' U2 R U' R2 F D L' D' R2 B F' D U2 R' U' F

I started like this:
D' R2 L' D' B' //222
R2 F' R' F2 //223+112*3

What I did with it was:
R' U B' R2 B R' U R U //L4C
It result in 28 moves.


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## mDiPalma (Sep 28, 2017)

BQ said:


> R' U' F L' D2 R2 D2 R' B2 L' U2 R U' R2 F D L' D' R2 B F' D U2 R' U' F



HARCS "hacks" finds this linear 23-mover without insertions in 6 seconds...

y' x' // inspection
R' L U' F2 L2 F' R' D' F // 3x2x2 (9)
F R' F2 U F // eo (5-1=4)
U2 R U R U R2 U R2 U R' // f2l (10)



Spoiler: picture


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## sqAree (Sep 28, 2017)

BQ said:


> Does anyone has good solution on this start? It's the scramble of Xuchang Open 2017.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Insert [U' R' U, L] at the end to get to two twisted in 21. Then IF somehow cancels 8 moves with a 13-mover that I don't know at all, resulting in a 26 moves solution.
Doesn't really seem findable by a human imo.


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## BQ (Sep 28, 2017)

sqAree said:


> Insert [U' R' U, L] at the end to get to two twisted in 21. Then IF somehow cancels 8 moves with a 13-mover that I don't know at all, resulting in a 26 moves solution.
> Doesn't really seem findable by a human imo.


hmmm. If I noticed this insertion and had much time left, I might try this.


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## BQ (Sep 28, 2017)

mDiPalma said:


> HARCS "hacks" finds this linear 23-mover without insertions in 6 seconds...
> 
> y' x' // inspection
> R' L U' F2 L2 F' R' D' F // 3x2x2 (9)
> ...


You aren't a human IMO.


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## guysensei1 (Sep 28, 2017)

BQ said:


> Does anyone has good solution on this start? It's the scramble of Xuchang Open 2017.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Using your start...


Spoiler



D' @ R2 L' D' * B' //222
R2 F' R' F2 //223+112*3
U R2 B U2 B2 R2 B//solve 2 pairs
B' R' U' R U B U'//leaves 2-2 swap of edges

*= L F2 L2 F2 L2 F2 L for 27

but IF says that the optimal insertion is at @= F2 D B2 L2 F2 U B2 R2, but I don't know this alg


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## BQ (Sep 29, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> Using your start...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


That's not a common alg. If uses a lot of alg searched from CE.


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## guysensei1 (Sep 29, 2017)

BQ said:


> That's not a common alg. If uses a lot of alg searched from CE.


I see. Well, 27 is a good solution too


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## Cale S (Sep 29, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> Using your start...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



That alg is a variation of (R2 U r2 F2)2


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## williamwhizz (Sep 30, 2017)

Dadams weekly, 27


Spoiler



L2 B2 L' U2 // pseudo 2x2x2 (4/4)
L D' B' // pseudo 2x2x3 (3/7)
(L2 F' U L' U L) // F2L-1 (6/13)
F2 R' F' R // F2L (4/17)
R F R' F R F2 R' F2 // sune to 3E (8-1/25-1)
Skeleton : L2 B2 L' U2 L ^ D' B' F2 R' F' R2 F R' F R F2 R' F2 L' U' L U' F L2 (24)
^ : L' U2 L B' F U' R2 U B F' cancels 7 woaj
Final: L2 B F U' R2 U B F' D' B' F2 R' F' R2 F R' F R F2 R' F2 L' U' L U' F L2


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## guysensei1 (Sep 30, 2017)

BQ said:


> Does anyone has good solution on this start? It's the scramble of Xuchang Open 2017.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Something better I found


Spoiler



D' R2 L' D' B' //222
R2 F' R' F2 //223+112*3
U F R F' R2//Pseudo F2L-1
(U' R)//F2L
(R B U' B' U B U2 B' U' R' U)//LL

1 move cancels giving 26


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## Bubtore (Sep 30, 2017)

First two solves of Swisscubing FMC 2017 : 24 -24

S1 // R' U' F R' B2 R2 F2 D2 R' F2 U2 R' B2 R D' U2 F' R' D' B R2 B R' U' F

(L F L') // 122
(R' B2 U2 B) // EO
(F2 L B2 D2 L2) // 223
(F2 U' F' U' F U F) // L3C

Skel // F' U' F' U F U F2 L2 D2 B2 L' F2 B' U2 * B2 R L F' L' - 19
* U2 F D' F' U2 F D F'

Solution // F' U' F' U F U F2 L2 D2 B2 L' F' B' D' F' U2 F D F' B2 R L F' L' - 24 Moves

S2 // R' U' F U2 B2 D B2 U F2 R2 D2 B2 L' D F L U B' U2 F' U' B' F R' U' F

R' (R2 D2 R) // EO
(F2 U) // P222
U2 D' F2 B' D' B R2 // 223
F2 U' // PF2L-1
D2 F D' F' D F D F' U // L3C

Skel // R' U2 D' F2 B' D' B R2 F2 U' D2 * F D' F' D F D F R' D2 R2 - 21
* D' B' D F D' B D F'

Solution // R' U2 D' F2 B' D' B R2 F2 U' D B' D F D' B F' D F D F R' D2 R2 - 24 Moves


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## Mieeetek4 (Oct 1, 2017)

Scramble: D2 B D2 R2 L F U' R' U' R F2 D' F2 L2 D' F2 R2 L2 D2
D R2 L2 U2 B F2//222+PREMOVE
(L F)//223
(F L F2 D2 F)//EO+BLOCKS
I found this 12 move start but I only found a 19 move skeleton leaving 2C2E and 21 moves to 4C or 5C. I'm sure there must be something better but I can't find it. How would you finish this skeleton?


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## guysensei1 (Oct 2, 2017)

2 26s with LL algorithms 

1. D2 B2 R' B2 L2 D2 U2 L' R' B2 D2 F U' L' B L2 B' D B2 L' R' 



Spoiler



U' L' B' U2 D' B'//2x2x2 (6/6)
F B L B' U L2//pseudo F2L-1 (6-2/12-2)
(L U' D)//correct pseudo (3/13)
F' L' F2 L F' D//pseudo F2L (6/19)
F' D' F U F' L' F' L F U' D//LL (11-4/30-4)

Final: U' L' B' U2 D' F L B' U L2 F' L' F2 L F' D F' D' F U F' L' F' L F L' (26)



2. R2 B2 D2 R2 U' F2 L2 U F2 L2 R2 F' U' B R' B D' R B U' L2 



Spoiler



L2//pairs (1/1)
(F2 U' B2 U B')//2x2x2, preserve pair (5/6)
(F2 D' L F D)//pseudo F2L-1 (5/11)
D' L' F2 L F L'//F2L (6/17)
L' F' U' F U L//EO (6-1/23-1)
F' D' F2 D F D' F D//antisune (8-4/30-4)

Final: L2 D' L' F2 L F L2 F' U' F U L F' D' F2 D F D' L' D F2 B U' B2 U F2 (26)


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## ChrisCuber123 (Oct 11, 2017)

BQ said:


> Does anyone has good solution on this start? It's the scramble of Xuchang Open 2017.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


late response, but i found this 29 in a few minutes:
D' R2 L' D' B' //222
R2 F' R' F2 //223+112*3
U2 R2 U' R2 F' U F U2 B' R B R' // lol F2L
L U2 L' U' L U' L' U2 // more lol


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## guysensei1 (Oct 15, 2017)

FMC 25 move winning solution for Malaysia Cube Open and Singaporean NR single!

Scramble: R' U' F L2 R2 F2 D2 F2 D2 L2 U R B' L2 R' F2 D2 R B2 D' L U' R' U' F



Spoiler



(L D' B' U2)//222, L B' U2 would have worked but found nothing so i added a D' (4/4)
(R2 D B D2)//223 (4/8)
(R' B2 R D' R D B2)//all but 5 edges (7/15)

Skeleton: B2 D' R' D R' * B2 R
** D2 B' D' R2 U2 B D L'

*=U D' R2 U' D B2
**=D2 B' R L' D2 R' L B' D2

Final: B2 D' R' D R' U D' R2 U' D R D2 B' R L' D2 R' L B2 D' R2 U2 B D L' (25)



Some comments:



Spoiler



This is probably the biggest risk I've taken in terms of choosing skeletons.
I had found a 24 to L3C within the first 10 minutes, so i tried to look for other options and found the L5E with 30 mins left.
I figured I should try to look through this skeleton with stickers to briefly see if I can find a 6 move comm that cancelled something. And luckily I did.

Also the U perm I inserted+the cancellations is just the 6 move comm lol.

Also I wonder if theres a simple setup to a 5-cycle somewhere, didnt really check for that as I was on low on time.


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## TheDubDubJr (Oct 16, 2017)

Here are my solutions to my FMC WR Mean from FMC Americas 2017!

22, 23, 27 = 24.00



Spoiler: Attempt #1 - 22



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D' B2 F2 R2 D' U2 F2 U' L2 B D2 B' L' B' L2 D' U L2 B' U2 R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R U2 B L2 U' D L2 B L B D2 B' L2 U F2 U2 D R2 F2 B2 D R2 F' U R

start on inverse:
(R2 D' F) // EO (3/3)
(R' B2) // 2x2x1 (2/5)
(F2 D R2 D R') // Pseudo F2L-1 (5/10)
switch
L // F2L-1 (1/11)
B' // pair (1/12)
L D' L' D2 L D L' D' B D2 // LL skip (forced) (10/22)

Solution: L B' L D' L' D2 L D L' D' B D2 R D' R2 D' F2 B2 R F' D R2 // 22

I originally found the easy 18 to L3C after switching with L2 D' L' D2 L D L' D but optimal was a 23. After finding the 23 I went back to the F2L-1 and found the skip.





Spoiler: Attempt #2 - 23



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D2 U B2 D F2 U' B' L' F' L' U2 B' D' L2 B F D2 U R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R U' D2 F' B' L2 D B U2 L F L B U F2 D' B2 U' D2 R2 F' U R

start on normal:
R U' F' // EO (3/3)
D2 R2 // 2x2x1 + 3 pairs (2/5)
switch
(D) // pair (1/6)
(R2 D' R) // 3x2x1 plus RB edge (3/9)
switch
U' L' D // 2x2x3 (3/12)
F2 R U' R' U2 // 17 to L3C (5/17)

skeleton: R U' F' D2 R2 U' L' D F2 R U' R' U2 R' D R2 D' (D B2 D' F D B2 D' F') // cancels 2

Solution: R U' F' D2 R2 U' L' D F2 R U' R' U2 R' D R2 B2 D' F D B2 D' F' // 23

Optimal insertion
The only other skeleton I found on the attempt was a 17 to L5C which optimal was 28. I spent most of my time looking at the start that I had because the EO 2x2x1 made a lot of really nice pairs and I just had to put them somewhere nice. 





Spoiler: Attempt #3 - 27



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D2 R2 U B2 F2 L2 F2 U F U2 R F' L2 R' U R D2 B R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R B' D2 R' U' R L2 F R' U2 F' U' F2 L2 F2 B2 U' R2 D2 R2 F' U R

start on normal:
F2 U2 R' F L2 // 2x2x2 (5/5)
switch
(R' U' B2) // Pseudo 2x2x3 (3/8)
switch
B2 // solve 2x2x3 (1/9)
switch
(F' U' F2 R F') // EO + set up edges [F' U' F solved EO] (5/14)
(U2 R2 U2 R) // 18 to L4C (4/18)

skeleton: F2 U2 R' F L2 B2 @ R' U2 R2 U2 F R' F2 U F B2 U R
@ = U' L' U R' U' & L U R // cancels 3
& = U R D R' U' R D' R' // cancels 4

Solution: F2 U2 R' F L2 B2 U' L' U D R' U' R D' R' L U' R2 U2 F R' F2 U F B2 U R // 27

Optimal on the 18 to L4C is 27! I found about 5 first insertions that canceled 3 and I spent the rest of my remaining time searching through those to possibly find one that cancelled 5 or more.

One big thing that I missed, after finding the 27 on the 18 to L4C I didn't really remember that I had other skeletons that I wrote down and could try, so thats why I kept looking for nested insertions.

I did find this though:
start on normal:
D2 B R' L U' // EO (5/5)
L F2 // 2 2x2x1s (2/7)
R B' // 2x2x3 (2/9)
switch
(D) // 2 pairs (1/10)
switch
D' L' D' L2 D L' // 16 to L3C + L3E (6/16)

These were the optimal insertions:
skeleton: D2 B R' L U' L F2 @ R B' D' L' D' L2 D L' D'
@ = F' B L2 B' & F U2 // cancels 1
& = B L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R2 // cancels 6

D2 B R' L U' L F R2 B L2 B' R2 F U2 R B' D' L' D' L2 D L' D' // 23
All together it would have been a 22.67 mean.

Even though I missed that 23 I am still really happy I finally got FMC WR Mean.


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## guysensei1 (Oct 16, 2017)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Here are my solutions to my FMC WR Mean from FMC Americas 2017!



The last one should say attempt #3 in the spoiler.

Congrats on the mean! The first two solves were amazing. Too bad about the last one, that would have been a legendary mean had you tried the 3C3E 

Fmc WRs and 4x4 WRs are interestingly similar now.


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## Ranzha (Oct 16, 2017)

Congratulations to Walker for the WR mean!

I'm overall pleased with the mean, especially being out of practice and with many other responsibilities for the competition, though I goofed on the second attempt:


Spoiler: Attempt #1 - 25



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D' B2 F2 R2 D' U2 F2 U' L2 B D2 B' L' B' L2 D' U L2 B' U2 R' U' F

(L B2 D R) // EO
(B' U2) // 3 pairs?!?!?!
D R2 // 222
(B' D' L2 B2) // another square, lots of pairs
(L2 B D B' D' B2 D) // ?! oh it's just 3 corners

Skeleton: D R2 D' B2 D B D B' L2 B2 L2 D B U2 B (1) R' D' B2 L' // 19
(1): [D2, R' U2 R] // 8-2

Final: D R2 D' B2 D B D B' L2 B2 L2 D B U2 B D2 R' U2 R D2 R' U2 D' B2 L' // 25





Spoiler: Attempt #2 - 35



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D2 U B2 D F2 U' B' L' F' L' U2 B' D' L2 B F D2 U R' U' F

(F2 B U' D2 L) // 222
(F' U' R2 U F') // 223
R2 D B (B) // F2L-1
(U' R' B' R B U R' F' R F) // L4C ew

Skeleton: R2 (3) D B (1) F' R' F R U' B' R' B R U B' F U' R2 U F L' D2 U B' F2
(1): [R' B' R, F'] // 8-4
(3): [L, D' R2 D] // 8-1

Final: R2 L D' R2 D L' D' R2 D2 B R' B' R F' R' B F R U' B' R' B R U B' F U' R2 U F L' D2 U B' F2 // 35

I ran out of time for insertions and handed in my solution with 10 seconds to spare.
Optimal is 34.





Spoiler: Attempt #3 - 30



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D2 R2 U B2 F2 L2 F2 U F U2 R F' L2 R' U R D2 B R' U' F

D B U // square + 2 pairs
(D B) // 123
R' B R D // more
R U L2 U' F2 R' // F2L-1 + 1 pair
D F' D' F // make it a square
D L D' L' // all but 3 pairs?!?!?!

Skeleton: D B U R' B R D R U L2 U' F2 R' D F' D' F D L D' L' (1) B' D' // 23
(1): [D, B L B'] // 8-1

Final: D B U R' B R D R U L2 U' F2 R' D F' D' F D L D' L' D B L B' D' B L' B2 D' // 30



25, 35, 30 = *30.00 mean*


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## porkynator (Oct 16, 2017)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Here are my solutions to my FMC WR Mean from FMC Americas 2017!
> 
> 22, 23, 27 = 24.00
> 
> ...



Huge congrats!
Nice touch with the LL skip ending on the first solve.
I really like the second solve, I don't really know why. Maybe because I would have (possibly) tried different things after the EO.


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## TheDubDubJr (Oct 16, 2017)

porkynator said:


> Huge congrats!
> Nice touch with the LL skip ending on the first solve.
> I really like the second solve, I don't really know why. Maybe because I would have (possibly) tried different things after the EO.



Thanks Sebastiano  
Yea on the second solve it seemed like there were so many different ways to go on it. I talked to a couple people who found the start and had different continuations.


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## williamwhizz (Oct 16, 2017)

FMC 32 HTM, 3rd place at MCO, pretty satisfied coz i found it in under 20 min  , but I couldn't find anything better within the remaining time :/


Spoiler



s: R' U' F L2 R2 F2 D2 F2 D2 L2 U R B' L2 R' F2 D2 R B2 D' L U' R' U' F

F L' D' L R' U' B D2 // 2x2x3 (8/8)
(F U' F' U' F) // F2L-1 (5/13)
(L' B' U2 B U' L) // F2L (6/19)
(R' U' F' U F R U') // 3C (7/26)

Skeleton: F L' D' L R' U' B D2 U R' F' U' F U R L' U B' U2 B L F' U F U F' @ (26)
@: F R B R' F' R B' R' cancels 2

Final : F L' D' L R' U' B D2 U R' F' U' F U R L' U B' U2 B L F' U F U R B R' F' R B' R' (32)


Can anyone find a better continuation with my 8-move start?


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## guysensei1 (Oct 17, 2017)

Is writing [x2] to indicate a rotation allowed? I saw one fmc sheet with that, not too sure what the result was as I don't know whose sheet it was.


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## BQ (Oct 18, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> Is writing [x2] to indicate a rotation allowed? I saw one fmc sheet with that, not too sure what the result was as I don't know whose sheet it was.


No. Check here: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/guidelines.html#E2c++
[x2] is not allowed as same as [F] IMO


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## kbrune (Oct 18, 2017)

What's the purpose of R' U' F at the beginning and end of all FMC scrambles?


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## AlphaSheep (Oct 18, 2017)

kbrune said:


> What's the purpose of R' U' F at the beginning and end of all FMC scrambles?


Because of the nature of the algorithm used to generate scrambles, half of normal scrambles preserve orientation. Because of that, it's was possible to derive short, often close to optimal EO solutions from the scramble, and also possible to stumble on solutions that happen to match the scramble by accident.

R' U' F involves a quarter turn on every axis, so it disturbs EO on every axis. This means that the orientation preserving part of the scramble preserves an orientation that's not the solved state's orientation, which makes it useless for cheating.

R' U' F is also kind of nice to fingertrick.

There's a lot more detail here: https://github.com/thewca/tnoodle/issues/210


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## guusrs (Oct 22, 2017)

Hard FMC scramble yesterday at Dutch Open:

R' U' F D' R2 B2 D' B2 U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 L R' D B D' F L' U R' F2 R' U' F

Anyone better than 26 (=my winning solution) ?



Spoiler



on inverse:
pseudo 2x2x3: L' F B' R' B U' R' L2 U' R' (10)
swith to normal with premoves (R U L2 R U B' R B F' L) 
L3C: U2 L' F L F D' F' D' F2 L' F' L D2
premove correction: R U @ L2 R U B' R B F' L
at @ insert U' R U L2 U' R' U L2, 5 moves cancel (=optimal)


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## guysensei1 (Oct 22, 2017)

Dadams weekly, 26



Spoiler



S: R L2 B R D L F R U F B2 R2 F B R2 B R D2 B' R

U B D L D L2//222 (6/6)
B' U2 R U B R'//223 (6/12)
L U L' U2//F2L-1 (4/16)
(B R D B2 D' R')//EO (6/22)
(U' B U B2)//LL skip (4/26)


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## porkynator (Oct 22, 2017)

guusrs said:


> Hard FMC scramble yesterday at Dutch Open:
> 
> R' U' F D' R2 B2 D' B2 U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 L R' D B D' F L' U R' F2 R' U' F
> 
> ...



Nice solve, and congrats for winning!

I am afraid I've lost the piece of paper with my solution, but it was terrible anyway.
I have the following start (on normal scramble):

2x2x1: U2 R U' L'

Possible continuation: R' D2 R D'
This gives a lot of nice pairs, but I couldn't find any decent finish.

Another possible continuation: R2 D2 R D' B2 U2 F
where the last move can be cancelled into F' L F for better edge orientation.


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## guysensei1 (Oct 23, 2017)

Any better ending for this 7 move 2x2x3 start? Ending with CFOP is unsatisfactory


R' U R F' D2 B2 D F D2 B2 U' R2 U2 R' D R2 F2 L2 U' L2

(B2 D' B2)//2x2x2 (3/3)
F R F2//pseudo 2x2x3 (3/6)
(F2 R2 F D' F')//correction+EO (5/11)
R2 D' R2 //F2L-1 (3/14)
(R D R' D' R D R')//F2L (7/21)
(L' D2 L D L' D L)//LL (7/28)


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## T1_M0 (Oct 23, 2017)

Every one of us 5, who got 26 at weekly fmc, had the exact same solution. That's fun.


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## Neuro (Oct 25, 2017)

From the weekly FMC thread, a 28 move Roux solve

SCRAMBLE: R L2 B R D L F R U F B2 R2 F B R2 B R D2 B' R

R L' B2 D2 F' R U//FB
B' D U R' U' D' B' U R U F D//SB+CMLL
F U' D R2 U D' F U2 D2//LSE

My official is a 26 with Petrus though

D F2 B' U' R' D F' D2 L B'//2x2x3+Pairs
R F' U F2 R F'//EO w/ pair preservation
U' R U R U R U2 R' U2 R//Solved


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## ChrisCuber123 (Oct 26, 2017)

guusrs said:


> Hard FMC scramble yesterday at Dutch Open:
> 
> R' U' F D' R2 B2 D' B2 U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 L R' D B D' F L' U R' F2 R' U' F
> 
> ...



I found this:
U2 R B L' // EO (2 pairs)
U' B D' R2 B2 D2 B' (U) // 2x2x3
F2 L2 F L2 // 4e + 3 twisted corners
skeleton: U2 R B L' U' B D' R2 B2 * D2 B' F2 L2 F L2 U'
*: B' ^ D' B D' B' D2 B D2 // solves corners, leaves 4e, cancels 5
^: B2 U2 F2 U2 B2 D2 // 2e2e, cancels 2
final solution: U2 R B L' U' B D' R2 B' U2 F2 U2 B2 D B D' B' D2 F2 L2 F L2 U' (23)

extremely lucky, but a good solve nonetheless


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## applezfall (Oct 26, 2017)

how would you guys solve this https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=_x_R2_D2_R_U_R-_D2_R_U-_R_x-__R_U-_L-__U_R-_U-_L_U
I did niklas and canceling some moves during final f2l pair to get 2 flipped corners


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## guysensei1 (Oct 27, 2017)

Neuro said:


> From the weekly FMC thread, a 28 move Roux solve
> 
> SCRAMBLE: R L2 B R D L F R U F B2 R2 F B R2 B R D2 B' R
> 
> ...


Notice that the moves I bolded are just an edge comm. We remove that from the solution and insert the edge comm somewhere else. (And your U2 D2 at the end will cancel 1 move off SB+CMLL too)

Skeleton:
R L' B2 D2 F' R U B' D U R' * U' D' B' U R U F D' U2

*= R F R' U D' F L' F' U' D

Cancels 5, giving 25 as final


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## Hssandwich (Oct 27, 2017)

Just got a 26.00 NR mean at UK Championships  Very happy with this, the first two scrambles were very nice, the final one wasn't as good, but I still managed NR 


#1: 26


Spoiler



R' U' F U2 L2 B2 U2 F2 D F2 U' F2 D B2 L' D' U2 B U2 L D2 B' U' R' U' F


B' L' // 2 squares!
U2 R U2 //2x2x2 +square
D2 (D) //2x2x3
F U' F' U2 L U' (L) //pseudo F2L-1 + square
F2 L F L' F' L F L' //21 to 3c

Skeleton: B' L' U2 R U2 D2 F U' F' U2 L U' @ F2 L F L' F' L F L2 D'

@L' B' L F2 L' B L F2 (3 cancel)

Solution: B' L' U2 R U2 D2 F U' F' U2 L U' L' B' L F2 L' B L2 F L' F' L F L2 D' (26)

Very nice scramble, I was pretty happy with 26 though 



#2: 24



Spoiler



R' U' F U2 B2 R2 U2 L2 B' L2 B2 F' D F2 R' F' D2 F2 U B U L2 B2 R' U' F

R' U L //square with lots of pairs
(U2 F2) //2x2x2 with lots of pairs too 
(D' B R2) R2 //2x2x3
(B' L' D2 L) //F2L-1
(D' B2 D) // F2L
(L' D L D' B2 D' B2 D) //LL

Solution: R' U L R2 D' B2 D B2 D L' D' L D' B2 D L' D2 L B R2 B' D F2 U2 (24)


Very happy with this solve, albeit pretty lucky. I did also have two 22 to 3c skeletons and a 21 to 3c.



#3: 28


Spoiler



R' U' F L2 D B2 F2 D U R2 F U2 L' U' R' F D' L2 D L2 U2 B R' U' F

(L2 D2 L) // EO
F D F // square + pairs
(D B R2 D) //2x2x2 +pairs
(D' U' B U B' D B' U2 B') //17 to 3c3e

Skeleton: F D F B U2 B D' B @ U' B' U R2 B' D' L' D2 L2
@B2 F' U B' U' B' F //leave 3c

New skeleton: F D F B U2 B & D' B' F' U B' U' B' F U' B' U R2 B' D' L' D2 L2
& F2 D' B D F2 D' B' D (3 cancel)

Solution: F D F B U2 B F2 D' B D F2 D' F' B2 U B' U' B' F U' B' U R2 B' D' L' D2 L2 (28)

I'm pretty sure I was the most nervous about an official solve that I've ever been during this... I thought I was going to have to finish on 30 until I realised that I wrote the first insertion wrong (and it cancelled an extra move!), so I checked for the 3c insertion, and I was really relieved 




Here are some other things I found on all the scrambles, the first two in particular

#1


Spoiler



B' L' made two squares, which hardly anybody noticed for some reason...
From here, (L' D' U2) U2 makes a 6 move 2x2x3, but I couldn't find any good continuations

But adding a (U) before (L' D' U) makes some pair, then fixing the pseudo on the normal scramble maes another square!
From there, you can do 2 more moves to F2L-1 in 9 moves 
B' L'
(U L' D' U)
U2 R' (R2) / U2 R2 (R)

There's isn't much from then on, besides a 16 to 5c - B2 U' L' B' L U B' - that I didn't have time to insert, and a 16 move F2L with a not great LL.



#2


Spoiler



F' R F/F' solved B/G EO with 2 pairs, but I didn't find anything great from there

I found my R' U L square start right at the beginning, so I didn't find much else different.

Here's a backup 21 to 3c:
R' U L //square
(F2 R' B2 R) //another square
(F2 U2 F2) //2x2x2
(B2 D B2) // XXcross
(R2 F' R2 F) //F2L-1
(U R U' R') //leave 3c

I played around with stuff on the inverse, and saw that (U2 F2) made lots of pairs /pseudosquares
Then I found this cool skeleton
(U2 F2)
(D' B U') //1x2x3
(F R) //2x2x2
(U2 R B R' L U') //leave 3c3e+1flipped edge
I don't think I found anything though

Also this:
R' U L (U2 F2)
(D' B R B)
L' R' D2 L D' R2

R' U R' D2 @ L D' & R2 B' R' B' D F2 U2
@L B' L' F D' B' D B F' //22 to 3c
&R' B' R F' B D B' D' F //22 to 3c



#3


Spoiler



(D2 U' B2) U2 is a pretty nice 2x2x2
Then U' makes a square, so possible 2x2x2s + squares include (D2 U' B2) U' F' U F / U' F2 U F
I didn't really find much after this, so I abandoned it after 15 mins or so (in hindsight a little too long spent on it)

I played by around with EO starts, including F' (L F')
Which led to (D) D2 F2 making a 6 move EO 2x2x2
Nothing much after this though :/

For my actual solution, I could have done
(L2 D2 L)
F D F
(D' F' D2) for the same 2x2x2, but this broke up some pairs, so I didn't use it

I also had a 31 move backup solution:
(D2 U' B2)
U' D' F2 U' F2 (F') // the D' is an inserted move to make some pairs
(D2 R F D' F') //F2L-1
(R D' R' D R2 B R2 B') //F2L
(F' R' F R F D' F' D R2) // LL



Very happy with all of this


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## TDM (Oct 27, 2017)

Hssandwich said:


> Just got a 26.00 NR mean at UK Championships  Very happy with this, the first two scrambles were very nice, the final one wasn't as good, but I still managed NR
> 
> 
> #1: 26
> ...


Only one person got one solution better than your _worst_ attempt. Congrats on the win/top 14 in the world!


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## guysensei1 (Oct 31, 2017)

Dadams weekly, 27

Who needs insertions and niss when you can linear and PLL skip lol


Spoiler



U L2 U F R L2 B R B2 L' R' U2 D L' U B L' U' B2 F'

R' B D U L' B2 D F'//pseudo 223+preserve pair (8/8)
D R' D2 F'//F2L-1 (4/12)
R U' R2 U F R2 F'//F2L (7/19)
B R2 B' D2 F D F' D//LL (8/27)



EDIT: dammit missed a 24



Spoiler



R' B D U L' B2 D F'//pseudo 223+preserve pair (8/8)
D R' D2 F'//F2L-1 (4/12)
(R2 U' R U F R F' R)//3E (8/20)

R' * B D U L' B2 D F' D R' D2 F' R' F R' F' U' R' U R2

*= R L' D F D' R' L B D' B' cancels 6, giving 24


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## Theo Leinad (Oct 31, 2017)

williamwhizz said:


> FMC 32 HTM, 3rd place at MCO, pretty satisfied coz i found it in under 20 min  , but I couldn't find anything better within the remaining time :/
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



I tried since start and got same result different path:



Spoiler



S: R' U' F L2 R2 F2 D2 F2 D2 L2 U R B' L2 R' F2 D2 R B2 D' L U' R' U' F
(L F' L2 U2 F) // 222 (5)
B R D R2 //223 (4)
D B2 D L' D2 L D2 L' D' L // F2L-1 (10)
R D' R' // L4C (3)

Skeleton: 
B + R D R2 
D B2 
D L' D2 L D2 L' D' L
R / D' R'
F' U2 L2 F L'

Insert at: 
/ R U R' D' R U' R' D (Cancels 4) (8-4)
+ B' D B U B' D' B U' (Cancels 2) (8-2)

Final Solution (32): 
D B U B' D' B U' R D R2 D B2 D L' D2 L D2 L' D' L R2 U R' D' R U' R2 F' U2 L2 F L'



It's funny to do the final solution without step by step and NISS


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## Theo Leinad (Oct 31, 2017)

I'm struggling with one solve: 
R' U' F D2 U2 R2 D U2 B2 D' R B2 U R' D L2 D L' R' F U2 R' U' F

I got this F2L-1 with the last pair done, but I'm having lots of issue inserting the pair and have something good on top: 


Spoiler



U2 L' F' U L' //222
(B U B') // 223
(L' U' L) // block
R U2 // F2L-1 + pair


Anyone can give me a little insight ?


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## CyanSandwich (Nov 1, 2017)

Theo Leinad said:


> I'm struggling with one solve:
> R' U' F D2 U2 R2 D U2 B2 D' R B2 U R' D L2 D L' R' F U2 R' U' F
> 
> I got this F2L-1 with the last pair done, but I'm having lots of issue inserting the pair and have something good on top:
> ...


It's just a bad case unfortunately. Here's what I found.

U' B' R2 B U //EO
F R' F' R F R2 F' R //3C (25)
or
U2 B U B' U
F R D R' D' F' R //4C (22)


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## Theo Leinad (Nov 3, 2017)

CyanSandwich said:


> It's just a bad case unfortunately. Here's what I found.
> 
> U' B' R2 B U //EO
> F R' F' R F R2 F' R //3C (25)
> ...



Thanks that should work... 
Now I have issues with a L3C i found previously but now I can't get to it, if someone has some time to check the scramble: 

R' U' F L2 D2 U' R2 U L2 U' L2 F U L' D L F' L B L2 D' U L F' R' U' F

(L B L U F2 U')
R B2 D2 B
D2 L' D L2 B2 L' 
R' D2 R2

I have that and perhaps inserted the pair like this: 
D2 R2 D' R'


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## guysensei1 (Nov 3, 2017)

26.33 mo3 over 3 daily Reddit scrambles, all without insertions.

1) 26
Scramble: L D' B2 U2 F' U' B U R B R2 F U L' U' F2 D' F2 R2 B


Spoiler



R F' B' U R2 U//6 move 2x2x3 woah (6/6)
R D' L2 D R'//Pseudo F2L-1 (5/11)
B' L B L B' L B//pseudo F2L (7/18)
F' L' F L' F' L2 F D2//LL+correction (8/26)



2) 26
Scramble: L' D L2 F' R U L' B2 R' D2 F L U B' L' D2 R' D' F' L'


Spoiler



(R' U R2 D B D')//2 squares (6/6)
(F2 U2 F)//2x2x2 (3/9)
(R2 B' R D')//blocks (4/13)
(R' B D2 B' R')//F2L-1 (5/18)
(D' B2 D B' L B L' B)//LL skip (8/26)



3) 27
Scramble: U2 L2 B U' R2 F U2 R F' R B L D' B' D' B' D2 F2 D2 L2


Spoiler



B D2 B' R B2 R2 F'//2x2x3 (7/7)
U' L2 U2 L B2 L' U' B//initially wanted to EO but made an F2L-1 (8/15)
L2 B D' B' D//F2L (5/20)
D L D' L D L2 D' L//LL (8-1/28-1)


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## SamKennedy (Nov 6, 2017)

I've just started experimenting with FMC, this is typically how my FMC solves go, and I end with two twisted corners:

Scramble: B R F2 D' L' U F' B U' D' R D F R U' R2 D2 L' U' R' B2 F U L' R

Solution:
1x2x2: L D R2 B'
2x2x2: U B2 U'
3x2x2: B' L' B' R F' R' B2
EO: D' L' D
Triple-X Cross: L' D F2 D'
Final Edges: U L' U' L U L2 U' L2
Top Corners: F2 L2 F' R' F L2 F' R F'
Final Corner Pair Twist: L' U' L U L' U' L D L' U L U' L' U L D'

It seems like things start to fall apart after the edge orientation step. I understand the basics of commutators and conjugates, but I'm unsure of how I would find where to insert them in this solution? Where am I going wrong, and what can I do to improve my thinking/approach?

Thank you


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 6, 2017)

I'm not the best at FMC, but in my opinion the place this solve goes wrong is as soon as you have 5 corners, two of which are twisted. There's no easy way to solve those twisted corners efficiently. Even if you just added a bunch of moves to get your final edges much less efficiently (such as U L2 U' L U L' U' L ' U L2 U' L' - 5 moves worse) would give you 5 corners all mispermuted, and you should be able to find simple insertions that would solve those much faster than your solution above. But that would still result in a really high move count; I'd say you probably mainly just need to look for a better start.


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## Berd (Nov 7, 2017)

My PB: (29)

U' R2 U B2 L2 B2 D R2 F2 D2 B L' B U B' L' R' D U R'

D* F // EO + 2 Pairs 
U R2 U2 D' L B2 L // 2x2x3
F2# U' L' U L U R U R' U // L5C

*= D: F U2 F' 
# = F D F': U 

IF gave a 27, I'm still really happy tho - my first sub 30!


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## Theo Leinad (Nov 7, 2017)

Berd said:


> My PB: (29)
> 
> U' R2 U B2 L2 B2 D R2 F2 D2 B L' B U B' L' R' D U R'
> 
> ...



Which is the Scramble?
(Nvm somehow I was expecting a RUF scramble... my bad)

I just did a 26 on Berkeley weekly contest:
U2 B F D L2 R2 U B' R' U' F2 L R2 U2 D2 R' F' U L R2


Spoiler



U' * D R D F // 222 (+5/5)
B' U R2 U B' R U B' // F2L-1 (+8/13)
U B' U B2 L' B' L // L3C (+7/20)
Insert at * :
* U L U' R' U L' U' R (Cancels 2) (+6/26)

Final solution 26:
L' U' R' U L U' R D R D F B' U R2 U B' R U B' U B' U B2 L' B' L



Would like to see other people's solutions


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## Attila (Nov 8, 2017)

Weekly comp. scramble (ongoing):
D2 R2 D2 B2 D2 U2 R2 U2 F D2 R' D2 B L2 R F' R' U F2



Spoiler



(F' D' R U') orient all pieces,
(L2 F2 @ D2 B2) edges swap,
(F2 L' U2 L' R' B' U2 D2 F D2 R' D2 L') all but 6 centers.

Insert at @: S M' S'
After insertion:
(F' D' R U' L2 B F D U' L' R) solved B-F centers,
Finish: (D2 L2 R2 F' U2 B2 D' F2 B2 U R2 F' R2 B')
Solution: B R2 F R2 U' B2 F2 D B2 U2 F R2 L2 D2 R' L U D' F' B' L2 U R' D F 25 moves
Solved in 75 mins


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## kbrune (Nov 15, 2017)

Can someone help me with this pre move issue im having? 
I'd consider myself intermediate at FMC at best FYI

Scramble: L2 D2 L2 F L2 D2 F U2 F2 D2 L U B D F D U2 B' R D2 R2

X'
L R' B' L F2 D2 2X2X2
X'
U' L F L2 U' F U2 F F2L-2
B' U B F' U F F2L-1

B' U' B L U2 L' U2 L U2 L' B2 R B R2 PSEUDO L3C

I noticed that it looked like a pseudo L3C after performing the last 14 moves. So I thought I'd try to use the pre moves to see if I could look for an insertion with the cube looking like an actual L3C visually. But no matter what I do. The premoves (R F or F' R') I'm applying before the scramble don't work after I apply my skeleton.

So here's the question(s): does the pre move/pseudo block technique even work in this situation? Or am I just applying the wrong premoves?


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## BQ (Nov 16, 2017)

kbrune said:


> Can someone help me with this pre move issue im having?
> I'd consider myself intermediate at FMC at best FYI
> 
> Scramble: L2 D2 L2 F L2 D2 F U2 F2 D2 L U B D F D U2 B' R D2 R2
> ...


Inverse the moves and you'll see that's not a pseudo L3C.


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## guysensei1 (Nov 27, 2017)

Dadams weekly, 25, kinda weird 


Spoiler



R2 D F B' R B R' U2 D2 R' U F D' B' U2 L D2 B U' R'

D L2 //4 pairs
(R' B D')//2 squares
(R2 L D2 L2 R F2 L)//add a 1x2x3
(D F' R2)//3C3E

Skeleton: D L2 R2 * F D' L' F2 R' L2 D2 ** L' R2 D B' R

*= D2 B D2 B' D2 F D2 F'//block comm
**= D' L' U' L D L' U L

Final: D L2 R2 D2 B D2 B' D2 F D L' F2 R' L2 D L' U' L D L' U R2 D B' R


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## obelisk477 (Nov 29, 2017)

For 4c3e skeletons (the 4 is a twisted three cycle), whats the best order for checking for insertions? Edge corner corner, corner edge corner, or corner corner edge?


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## guysensei1 (Nov 30, 2017)

obelisk477 said:


> For 4c3e skeletons (the 4 is a twisted three cycle), whats the best order for checking for insertions? Edge corner corner, corner edge corner, or corner corner edge?


You'd probably be better off finding an insertion to solve the edges + leave 3 corners, such as a sexy move or a block comm. If you must use 3 insertions, I think the best approach is to check for all 3 at the same time, and see which first insertion gives the best cancellations.


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## guysensei1 (Nov 30, 2017)

A 27 move solve, with a nonstandard insertion

Scramble: F U' L2 D2 F' D2 L D2 L' D' L2 B2 L F2 L F2 R2 D' B' D



Spoiler



(L F L2)//square+2 pairs
(D R2 B')//2x2x2
(L F')//another square
(L U L' U')//another square
(D L' F2)//4C4E

Skeleton: F2 L * *D'* U L U' L' F L' B R2 D' L2 F' L'
*= F2 L' F2 L F' D F D2 B' D F' D' B *D*

Final: F2 L F2 L' F2 L F' D F D2 B' D F' D' B U L U' L' F L' B R2 D' L2 F' L'


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## RhysC (Dec 1, 2017)

Here's a completely intuitive 31 (despite one insertion) that i found in 20 minutes

s: B2 F2 D' L2 B2 D L2 B2 D' L2 U' R F' L2 D2 B' D B F U

D2 B F D F' L2 F' L D B D' B' D' L' D2 F L' F' D L D' @ B' D' B
@: D' F U2 F' D F U2 F'

sol: D2 B F D F' L2 F' L D B D' B' D' L' D2 F L' F' D L D2 F U2 F' D F U2 F' B' D' B


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## guysensei1 (Dec 1, 2017)

RhysC said:


> Here's a completely intuitive 31 (despite one insertion) that i found in 20 minutes
> 
> s: B2 F2 D' L2 B2 D L2 B2 D' L2 U' R F' L2 D2 B' D B F U
> 
> ...


When would you consider a fmc solve 'unintuitive'?


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## RhysC (Dec 1, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> When would you consider a fmc solve 'unintuitive'?


I sort of meant that it was just pure blockbuilding; no NISS or premoves or fancy stuff. Pretty easy to see even if you don't know any FMC techniques. But yeah, probably should have clarified


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## guysensei1 (Dec 4, 2017)

Sweet insertion and sweet 23

scramble: L2 U2 F L2 B' R' F D' F U R2 D' R2 D' L2 U L2 B2 R2 D2 L2 


Spoiler



(F R2 U2 D2 F)//2 squares (5/5)
@ L' F2 B//2x2x3 (3/8)
D2 R' D//F2L-1 (3/11)
F' R' F R'//to 4 flipped edges (4/15)

@=(S L)*4 = F' B D F' B R F' B U F' B L

Final: F' B D F' B R F' B U F B2 D2 R' D F' R' F R' F' D2 U2 R2 F' (23)


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## okayama (Dec 9, 2017)

Here are my solutions from FMC Asia 2017.

1st scramble: R' U' F U B2 D' B2 U B2 L2 R2 D B D2 L R2 U2 B U' R B2 F' R' U' F
1st solution: B L2 B' R' B L2 B' R B R2 B R' B' U2 B2 D2 B2 L2 B' U2 B U' L2 F B2 (25 moves)


Spoiler



30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: F B2

Orient edges: B R2 B R'
2x2x3 block: B' U2 B2 D2 B2
All but 3 corners: L2 B' U2 B U' L2

Insert at the beginning: B L2 B' R' B L2 B' R

I missed the optimal insertion, which should have resulted in 24 moves. 



2nd scramble: R' U' F U L2 D' U2 F2 L2 U L' F2 D' F2 L2 U B F2 R D' L U2 R' U' F
2nd solution: U2 F' L2 F U2 R2 F D2 F' R2 U' B' U B U2 B2 L2 B2 D' B D L' D' F' U' F2 R' (27 moves)


Spoiler



10 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
Orient edges: R
2x2x2 block: F2 U F D
Orient edges: L
2x2x3 block: D' B' D B2 L2
Finish F2L: B2 U2 B' U' B U
LL: R2 F D2 F' R2 U2 F' L2 F U2

In the remaining time, I also found the following solution (27 moves).

(Inverse)
Orient edges: R
2x2x2 block: F2 U F D
Orient edges: L
2x2x3 block: B2 U' B' * U L2
All but 3 corners: U' B U B U2 B U' B' U B2

Insert at *: B R B' L' B R' B' L



3rd scramble: R' U' F U2 B2 L2 D2 U L2 U' B2 D F' L B L F' R D' B2 L' U' B2 R' U' F
3rd solution: F2 D' B2 R D B2 D' L' D L' U L' D' L U' L2 D2 F L F' L F L F' L D2 B' L F U R2 (31 moves)


Spoiler



Here is 20 min backup solution (32 moves).

Pre-scramble: F2

Orient edges: R2 U F' L B'
2x2x3 block minus 1 edge: L R' U L' U' D F2
F2L minus 1 slot minus 1 edge: U' L
More square: D' U2 * R' U' R
All but 3 corners: U R' U R U' D
Correction: F2

Insert at *: U2 B' D' B U2 B' D B

In the remaining time, I found the following solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B2 D' R' B2 D F2

F2L minus 1 slot: R2 U' F' L' B D
Finish F2L: D L' F L' F' L' F L' F' D'
LL: D' L2 U L' D L U' L D' L D



Shuto Ueno won with 27 moves mean. Well done!
I hope other competitors also post their solutions here.


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## guysensei1 (Dec 9, 2017)

My low-budget solution for the last solve of fmc asia, missed the first 2 attempts because I got stuck in customs for 4 hours, and was thus too tired/demoralised to try harder. Also i spent the first half hour doing nothing in this attempt, just resting.


R' U' F U2 B2 L2 D2 U L2 U' B2 D F' L B L F' R D' B2 L' U' B2 R' U' F



Spoiler



(B R' B R) U//2x2x2 (5/5)
L2 D' L2 F D' (D')//F2L-1 but missing the edge (6/11)
L' D F2 D' L' D F D'//F2L (8/19)
D' L' D L' D' L2 D//sune (7-1/26-1)
L D' L' D L' D' L2 D//another sune (8-1/33-1)


Lame


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## BQ (Dec 10, 2017)

Here are my solutions from FMC Asia 2017.

1st scramble: R' U' F U B2 D' B2 U B2 L2 R2 D B D2 L R2 U2 B U' R B2 F' R' U' F
1st solution: D' F' R' B L' D L2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 B' R2 B L R' D R2 F' D2 B' D' B2 R' B' R L2 (28 moves)


Spoiler



pre scramble: L2
D' F' R * B L2 # //222
R' D R2 F' //f2l-1
D2 B' D' B2 R' B' R //L3E3C
*: R2 B L B' R2 B L' B'
#: L2 D L2 F2 R2 U R2 F2

Another solution: D' F' R B L2 R' D R2 F' B' L' D2 F' L' F' R' F L F' R2 F' L' F R' F2 L2 B D L2 (29 moves)
pre scramble: L2
D' F' R * B L2 # //222
R' D R2 F' //f2l-1
B' L' D2 F * L' F' L2 B D //L4C
*: F # R F' L' F R' F' L
#: F L' F' R' F L F' R



2nd scramble: R' U' F U L2 D' U2 F2 L2 U L' F2 D' F2 L2 U B F2 R D' L U2 R' U' F
2nd solution: L2 U R U' L2 U R' U2 F U F' U2 B U B2 U B U' R' U' L U R D2 R U R' D R F (30 moves)


Spoiler



F' R' D' R U' R' D2 R' U' L' U R U B' U' B2 U' B' U2 F U' F' U2 R U' L2 U R' U' L2
(Inverse)
F' * U' R' D //222
U' L' //edge orientation
U2 # B' U' B2 U' B' U2
F U' F' U @ //L6C
*: R' D' R U' R' D R U (8-5)
#: U' R U B' U' R' U B (8-5)
@: U R U' L2 U R' U' L2 (8-1)

IF says the optimal was 28 moves (three insertions were 8-5 8-4 8-4). 



3rd scramble: R' U' F U2 B2 L2 D2 U L2 U' B2 D F' L B L F' R D' B2 L' U' B2 R' U' F
3rd solution: F D' B' R F2 U' F' D2 F U F' D' U2 B' D' B U' B2 U2 B R B R U2 R' B' R' U' R U (30 moves)


Spoiler



F D' B' R F # //pseudo 222 (LFD corner)
D U * B' D' B' U2 B R B //pseudo f2l-1
R U2 R' B' R' U' R U //L5C
*: U B' D' B U' B' D B (8-6)
#: F U' F' D2 F U F' D2 (8-2)



I will contact Chinese competitors and post other solutions here.


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## BQ (Dec 10, 2017)

okayama said:


> Here are my solutions from FMC Asia 2017.
> 
> 1st scramble: R' U' F U B2 D' B2 U B2 L2 R2 D B D2 L R2 U2 B U' R B2 F' R' U' F
> 1st solution: B L2 B' R' B L2 B' R B R2 B R' B' U2 B2 D2 B2 L2 B' R B U' L2 F B2 (25 moves)
> ...


.
What a pity you didn't find the optimal solution in 1st attempt.
Your solution here has a mistake. The last R should be U2


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## okayama (Dec 10, 2017)

BQ said:


> .
> What a pity you didn't find the optimal solution in 1st attempt.
> Your solution here has a mistake. The last R should be U2


I was shocked beyond words, because I had enough time left but I overlooked it.
Sorry, on the mistake, which place did you point out precisely?


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## guysensei1 (Dec 10, 2017)

Did anyone find/use this start for the first scramble? I found it after attempt 1 was over, while stuck in customs 



Spoiler



R2 U2 L U2 D' F2 U2 F//2x2x3 with 2 pairs



EDIT: found a very good continuation



Spoiler



R2 U2 L U2 D' F2 * U2 ** F//2x2x3 with 2 pairs
(R2 B2 R' B' R)//3C3E in 13 moves

*=L U L' U'
**= U' R D' R' U R D R'

IF says optimal is 24 with standard insertions, but the one i showed is optimal with nonstandard, giving 22 as a final result


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## BQ (Dec 10, 2017)

okayama said:


> I was shocked beyond words, because I had enough time left but I overlooked it.
> Sorry, on the mistake, which place did you point out precisely?


Sorry I didn't point it out. It's the 1st solution.


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## BQ (Dec 10, 2017)

guysensei1 said:


> Did anyone find/use this start for the first scramble? I found it after attempt 1 was over, while stuck in customs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


IF can find the 22 solution too: https://fewestmov.es/cube/if/688c470ee193eef979ec65e8eaecb558.cube


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## okayama (Dec 10, 2017)

BQ said:


> Sorry I didn't point it out. It's the 1st solution.


Thanks, I fixed it.


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## BQ (Dec 11, 2017)

I got Saeed's AsR solution from the delegate:

1st scramble: R' U' F U B2 D' B2 U B2 L2 R2 D B D2 L R2 U2 B U' R B2 F' R' U' F
1st solution: B R2 B R' B' U2 B2 D2 F' D F2 R2 U' B' D B D2 R2 D U (20 moves)


Spoiler



EO+2x2x1: B R2 B R'
Two 2x2x2 blocks+ two pairs: B' U2 B2 D2 F' D F2
Switch to inverse: U' D' R2 (switching the pairs) 
D2 B' D' B (inserting one pair)
U R2 (second pair and LL) 

Final solution: B R2 B R' B' U2 B2 D2 F' D F2 R2 U' B' D B D2 R2 D U


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## uesyuu (Dec 11, 2017)

Here are my winning solutions from FMC Asia 2017 !


1st scramble: R' U' F U B2 D' B2 U B2 L2 R2 D B D2 L R2 U2 B U' R B2 F' R' U' F
1st solution: B R2 B R B' L B R2 B' L' U2 B2 D2 F' D F2 D' F' U F U' R2 D R2 (24 moves)


Spoiler



B R2 B R' * // EO
B' U2 B2 // 222
D2 F' D F2 // F2L-2
D' F' U F U' R2 D R2 // L3C

insert at *=[R2 B' L B R2 B' L' B]



2nd scramble: R' U' F U L2 D' U2 F2 L2 U L' F2 D' F2 L2 U B F2 R D' L U2 R' U' F
2nd solution: L' U L B U2 L2 B' L' U' B L2 B2 F' U2 B U B' U2 F U' B F U' F' U2 D' R U F (29 moves)


Spoiler



(F' U' R' D) // 222
L' U L B U2 L2 B' L' U' // F2L-1
(U2 F U F') // pair
B L2 B' // Finish F2L
B' F' U2 B U B' U2 F U' B // pair comm



3rd scramble: R' U' F U2 B2 L2 D2 U L2 U' B2 D F' L B L F' R D' B2 L' U' B2 R' U' F
3rd solution: F' L F2 D' B' R' U B R D' R' U2 R D R' B' R U F' U' L2 B L B' L F' R2 F' (28 moves)


Spoiler



F' L F2 D' B' // 222
(F R2 F2) // 223
R' U B * U2 B' R // F2L-1
U F' U' F // Finish F2L
F' L2 B L B' L F // L3C

insert at *=[R D' R' U2 R D R' U2]


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## BQ (Dec 11, 2017)

Here're the 1st and 2nd solutions from Chunhao Liu.

1st scramble: R' U' F U B2 D' B2 U B2 L2 R2 D B D2 L R2 U2 B U' R B2 F' R' U' F
1st solution: R D' F' L F2 L' B2 R' B R2 D' F D B2 D' F' D U L F R2 F' L' U' R2 U' (26 moves) (DNF)


Spoiler



R D' F' L F2 L' // 222
B2 R' B R2 # B2 // 223
U F R2 * F' // TEC
U' R2 U' // L4C
*: R2 F' L F R2 F' L' F
#: D' F D B2 D' F' D B2

But he failed to write down some moves on the sheet and got a DNF.



2nd scramble: R' U' F U L2 D' U2 F2 L2 U L' F2 D' F2 L2 U B F2 R D' L U2 R' U' F
2nd solution: U L B U' B D F' D' B2 D' B R U2 F B' R D2 F D F' D (21 moves)


Spoiler



U L // 122
B U' B' * D F' D2 B // pseudo 223
R U2 F B' R // f2l-1
D2 F D F' D // L3C
*: B2 D F' D' B2 D F D'


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## okayama (Dec 19, 2017)

Here is Tomoyuki Hiraide's 23-move solution for the first scramble.

Scramble: R' U' F U B2 D' B2 U B2 L2 R2 D B D2 L R2 U2 B U' R B2 F' R' U' F
Solution: R2 U2 L U2 D' F2 U2 F U2 L U L' R D' R' U R D R2 B R B2 R2


Spoiler



Start on normal

1x2x3 block: R2 U2 L U2
2x2x3 block: D' F2 U2 F

Switch to inverse

F2L minus 1 slot + square: R2 B2 R' B' R
All but 3 corners: U' L U' L' U2

Skeleton: R2 U2 L U2 D' F2 U2 F U2 L U L' * U R' B R B2 R2
Insert at *: R D' R' U R D R' U'


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## porkynator (Dec 19, 2017)

My solve from Italian Championship 2017. It isn't Incredibly good (26), but I think it is quite nice.

Scramble: R' U' F U2 B L2 D2 U2 F2 R2 D2 B' R D' R U' L' U' L2 R F D' B' R' U' F
Solution: U2 B2 L' D L2 U' B D' F2 D B2 D F2 D' B D F2 U L' R' U R B L' D2 F (26)


Spoiler



(F' D2 L B') //EO + pairs (4/4)
(R' U' R) //2 squares (3/7)
U2 B2 //Match blocks (2/9)
L' D L2 //Square (3/12)
(L D2 U' F2 D U) //All but 4 corners (6/18)

Skeleton: U2 B2 L' D L2 U' * D' F2 U D2 L' R' U R B L' D2 F
* = B D' F2 D B' + D' F2 D //3c (3/21)
+ = B' D F2 D' B D F2 D' //3c (5/26)

It seems I have also found optimal insertions, which is crazy, considering that I didn't have much time left and I stopped with the first pass after finding the 5 move cancellation.


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## G2013 (Dec 20, 2017)

*25 MOVES PB*
Done in Weekly speedsolving contest



Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F L D B2 D' F L B' R' D F U2 B' U2 F2 B' R2 U2 D2 B D2 R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R D2 B' D2 U2 R2 B F2 U2 B U2 F' D' R B L' F' D B2 D' L' F' U R

(R' D R2 U') //2 X 2x2x1
(B' D F' D' R) //2x2x3 extension
(F B' L F B' U') //6 unsolved pieces

Backup solve: U B F' L' B F' R' D F D' B U R2 D' R (U' L U R U' L' U R' + B L' S' L2 S L' B') (32)

Corner insertion: U B F' L' B F' R' D F D' B U R2 D' (F' L2 F R F' L2 F R') R (15+8-2=21)
Edge insertion: U B F' L' B F' R' D F D' B (F U' F' U2 D2 B U B' D2 U2) U R2 D' F' L2 F (F' R L' U2 L R' F') R F' L2 F (21+7-3=25!!!!)

Final solution: U B F' L' B F' R' D F D' B U R2 D' F' R L U2 L R' F' R F' L2 F (25) HTM!!!!! 5 cancellations, beats my former tied PB of 27. wohoooooo!!!!



IF says my insertions were optimal


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## andersonaap (Dec 23, 2017)

@campos20 has experinted a ideia
Of starting with edge orientation in 2 axis.

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/introducing-a-variation-for-fewest-move.67299/

What do you think about?


@Attila,


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## Attila (Dec 23, 2017)

andersonaap said:


> @campos20 has experinted a ideia
> Of starting with edge orientation in 2 axis.
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/introducing-a-variation-for-fewest-move.67299/
> ...



It seems to be a completely new approach. I really like it. Congrats for him.


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## NykoCuber1 (Dec 24, 2017)

German forum comp scramble :

- 26.33 Mo3 -

// 1- R' U' F U' R2 F2 D2 R2 U' F2 R2 B L2 R B' U' R U' L R2 D' F' U' R' U' F

B2 L2 B R U R2 // Paires (6)
U R U2 // 222 (3)
( L D2 ) // F2L-1 (2)
U2 F' U2 F U R // 4E (5)

S = * B2 L2 B R U R2 U R F' U2 F U2 D2 L' (14)
* = R F2 D R D' R' F2 U' R' U

Great insertion = 24 .

// 2- R' U' F L B2 D2 B2 R U2 B2 L' F2 U2 B' R U B L' F' R2 F2 D2 R' U' F

( R2 L' B F *L* ) // 222 (5)
B2 R' D' R // P223 (4)
( R ) // 223 (1)
B D *B2* // F2L-1 (3)
( *L'* D L ) // F2L (3)
( F D F' D' F' R F L D2 R' L' D2 F' B' D2 F *B *) // LL (17) = SUPER Long 

- 30 - Who has better ? 

// 3- R' U' F U B2 F2 R2 D R2 U B2 U' R D2 R' B D' F R B2 R2 B' D R' U' F

( R' U L' U2 B' ) // EO (5)
U' R D' R D L' U2 *L' D' *// F2L (9) 
*D L'* U' L D' F L' F' L' U F L2 F' L2 // LL (Niklas + ZBLL) (13)

- 25 - 

(I am the French NR holder with 28.00 Mean and 26 Single.)

_*MERRY CHRISTMAS*_  !


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## obelisk477 (Dec 24, 2017)

okayama said:


> My hats off to you, Sébastien. I couldn't choose a proper face mark from the list.   :confused:      :tu   :fp
> 
> Now I update the history for the hardest scramble (list those who wrote down a full solution in this thread).
> Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
> ...



For FMC272 in this hardest scramble list, I just found a linear 27. Maybe it's the first sub-30 for this scramble? Not sure



Spoiler



(L2 D F2 D’ R’ D) // 2x2x2 (6/6)
(F’ L F) // 2x2x3 - 1 edge & 3 pairs (3/9)
(B L B2 L2 B2 L’) // F2L -1 (6/15)
(B R B’ R’ B) // last 3 pairs (5/20)
(B2 L B’ U’ B2 U B L’) // block commutator (8-1/27)

L B’ U’ B2 U B L’ B R B R’ B’ L B2 L2 B2 L’ B’ F’ L’ F D’ R D F2 D’ L2


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## Emilien (Dec 25, 2017)

Dutch Open 2009 : R2 D B2 U B2 D B' D' R' U' F' D2 B2 R D L' B' F



Spoiler



D' L F2 U' F2 B L' // Blocs (7)
U' F U' R F' R // 3E3C (6)

D' L + F2 U' B F2 - L' U' F U' R F' R (13)

+ L' B' L F2 L' B L F2 (8-4)
- F2 U2 B2 R' B2 U2 F2 L' (8-3)

D' B' L F2 L' B L U' B U2 B2 R' B2 U2 F2 L2 U' F U' R F' R (22)


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## DGCubes (Dec 26, 2017)

Speedsolving weekly competition (week 52):



Spoiler: solution (30 moves)



Scramble: R' U' F L2 B2 R2 D2 B2 D F2 L2 F2 R2 U' B D F R2 D R D F L' R' D R' U' F

(B' L' U' L' B' L2 B) // pseudo-2x2x3 
(F' R2 B R F) // AB3E5C 
(D2 F' B R2 B' F) // AB3C (technically an insertion, but I basically used this as part of my skeleton)

I could've canceled a move with the 3 edges, but I had already done corner insertions and it would've messed with one of those, so I started with the D2 to cancel with one of the corner insertions instead. 

Skeleton (18 to AB5C): F' B R2 B' F D2 F' * R' B' R2 F B' L2 B L U L B $ 

* = F D' F' U2 F D F' U2 (cancels 3) 
$ = B R2 B' L B R2 B' L' (cancels 1, kind of a last resort) 

Unfortunately, IF found a 26 with this skeleton. I knew there was a lot more potential than I was able to find, but I was working until the last second and didn't get to check every corner insertion. 

Solution: F' B R2 B' F D F' U2 F D F' U2 R' B' R2 F B' L2 B L U L B2 R2 B' L B R2 B' L'



Anyone have any general tips for how to get faster at insertions? For this attempt I had 30 minutes for 2 insertions and still didn't have time to check everything.


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## obelisk477 (Dec 26, 2017)

DGCubes said:


> Speedsolving weekly competition (week 52):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How do you do your stickering for 5c? What is your process for checking each insertion?

Also, a pretty good tip I've found is to write down every single possible insertion for a cancellation that you find up until the point that you've found your first insertion, and *also write down the cycle that that insertion solves*. Then, after you've found your first insertion, look and see which corners are still stickered after you remove the stickers for the newly solved corners. It will be one of the possible 5 three cycles. At this point, you can fast forward to the first insertion you did when checking for the second, knowing that (say you have the 2-3-4 cycle remaining) you aren't missing out on anything because you would have already written down possible cancellations for all 2-3-4 cycle insertions prior to the asterisk. Then check the rest of the skeleton (and within the first commutator) to see if there are any better cancellations than the ones you have written down.

EDIT1: Also, this of course only applies to pure 5 cycles of corners, as in your example above. Other AB5C would use a different process.

EDIT2: I checked insertion finder and it only found 28 move solutions, not 26 move solutions. So you were only 2 moves off of optimal


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## DGCubes (Dec 26, 2017)

obelisk477 said:


> How do you do your stickering for 5c? What is your process for checking each insertion?
> 
> Also, a pretty good tip I've found is to write down every single possible insertion for a cancellation that you find up until the point that you've found your first insertion, and *also write down the cycle that that insertion solves*. Then, after you've found your first insertion, look and see which corners are still stickered after you remove the stickers for the newly solved corners. It will be one of the possible 5 three cycles. At this point, you can fast forward to the first insertion you did when checking for the second, knowing that (say you have the 2-3-4 cycle remaining) you aren't missing out on anything because you would have already written down possible cancellations for all 2-3-4 cycle insertions prior to the asterisk. Then check the rest of the skeleton (and within the first commutator) to see if there are any better cancellations than the ones you have written down.
> 
> ...



It just clicked... your point about only checking the rest of the skeleton makes so much sense! I've been wasting a lot of time going through each move for my second insertions in the past. I'll definitely do it the way you recommended from now on. Thanks so much! 

To answer your questions, though:
I put five stickers on the cube, one on each corner in the cycle, and number them 1-5. I go through my skeleton move by move and check all 5 possible 3-cycles. On my sheet of paper, I put a caret between each move and write down the optimal number of moves for any insertion there (if there is one 8 moves or less), and then move to the next move.

Also, I should've added that I checked insertion finder for the 12-move skeleton (the one without the three edges solved at the end). So had I tried to do three insertions, I could've had a 26 (although seeing as I could barely fit in two, it was pretty unlikely for that to happen).

Thanks again for your advice; it seems so obvious now but I never considered it before.


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## obelisk477 (Dec 26, 2017)

DGCubes said:


> It just clicked... your point about only checking the rest of the skeleton makes so much sense! I've been wasting a lot of time going through each move for my second insertions in the past. I'll definitely do it the way you recommended from now on. Thanks so much!
> 
> To answer your questions, though:
> I put five stickers on the cube, one on each corner in the cycle, and number them 1-5. I go through my skeleton move by move and check all 5 possible 3-cycles. On my sheet of paper, I put a caret between each move and write down the optimal number of moves for any insertion there (if there is one 8 moves or less), and then move to the next move.
> ...



Another trick to speed up insertion checking is that instead of checking all 5 possible 3 cycles for each move of the skeleton, do this instead: check all 6 faces for interchange moves involving adjacent numbers, and then check only those cycles which involve that valid interchange, as those are the only ones which will be solveable with an 8 move commutator


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## DGCubes (Dec 27, 2017)

obelisk477 said:


> Another trick to speed up insertion checking is that instead of checking all 5 possible 3 cycles for each move of the skeleton, do this instead: check all 6 faces for interchange moves involving adjacent numbers, and then check only those cycles which involve that valid interchange, as those are the only ones which will be solveable with an 8 move commutator



Oooh, that's really helpful. Thanks for all the advice!


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## NykoCuber1 (Dec 28, 2017)

// F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

- 29 - 

(L F L') // Paires (3)
L' F' U R // Blocks (4)
(D' F' D2) // 223 (3)
(L' U L2) // Blocks (3)
(B2 L U' L2) // PF2L (4)
B // F2L (1)
R B L' U' L U' L' U2 L U2 B' R' // LL (12)


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## mazh (Dec 30, 2017)

Here is my personal best solution.

Scramble:
R' U' F L2 D2 U2 F D2 R2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U' B' L R' D2 F D2 L2 U B R' U' F

--18--

R2 B' U' //EO（3/3）
R2 F' D2 L # B' //222+122（5/8）
R' F' R U2 R2 //L4C（5/13）
# = R' * F R B' R' F' R B（8-5/21-5）
* = L' F R F' L F R' F'（8-6/24-6）

My friend used CE to calculate this scramle，and CE says 18 is already the best.


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## mazh (Dec 31, 2017)

DGCubes said:


> Speedsolving weekly competition (week 52):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When you find the first insertion of 5C or 4C, do not pay too much attention on how to solve each possible of three-cycle insertion.
First you should notice what is the next move in your skeleton, and then consider how to cancelled that move by your insertion. Finally, you just need to check whether you have this sort of insertion to cancelled next move. This method will save your much time. I usually use 10~15 minutes to do 2 insertions by this method.

*Example*
Scramble:
R' U' F L2 D2 U2 F D2 R2 F2 L2 U2 B2 U' B' L R' D2 F D2 L2 U B R' U' F
Skeleton:
R2 B' U' R2 F' D2 L B' R' F' R U2 R2 //L4C​When I found insertion between "L" and "B'", I noticed my last move of insertion must be "B" to cancelled "B'", then I found the insertion "R' F R B' R' F' R B" quickly.​
*Another suggestion: *do not write down every possible insertion when you find the first insertion of 5C or 4C.
Because it will waste too much time to write down one by one. I just write down the insertion with 3 or more than 3 moves cancelled, and only record the position of the insertion with 2 moves cancelled but not write down the moves.

I'm not good at English，so I don't know if I express what I mean clearly, but I hope this tips are helpful for you.


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## mazh (Dec 31, 2017)

My solution of weekly competition:



Spoiler: solution(28 moves)



*Scramble: *R' U' F L2 B2 R2 D2 B2 D F2 L2 F2 R2 U' B D F R2 D R D F L' R' D R' U' F

start on inverse

B' L' # U' //EO(3)
L' * B' L2 //222+122(3)
& D2 B D2 B R' //L5E3C(5)

# = F2 U' D R2 U D'(6-2)
* = L' B2 D2 F2 R' F2 D2 B2(8-2)
& = R U R' D R U' R' D'(8-1)



IF gave a 25:https://fewestmov.es/cube/if/2c367013b0f45645d94488477b03a064.cube
I tried to find insertion like "R U R' d' R U' R' d" or "M' U' M U" to make 3E or 3C, but all failed.


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## Bubtore (Jan 3, 2018)

Just found a 17 moves solution on a scramble from a yt video






S // U' F' L2 F' L2 F2 D2 F2 L' D U2 B2 R' B' R' D

R B' U' * // 222 + EO (3)
L U2 L D2 L' // Domino reduction (+5 = 8)
U F2 D F2 U // L4E (+5 = 13)

* U2 R2 D2 R2 U2 L2 

Solution // R B' U R2 D2 R2 U2 L' U2 L D2 L' U F2 D F2 U - 17 Moves


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## xyzzy (Jan 14, 2018)

dadams weekly #212



Spoiler



Scramble: R2 F' D B' R' U B R L' U2 F' R2 L' B F' L2 B' R B' L

Found two 31-move solutions.

First one:
U D B' // square (3/3)
(L' B' R' B R2 U L2) // 223 (7/10)
L D' L2 F L // EO (5/15)
(D F D F2) // pseudoF2L-c (4/19)
L' F U2 B' R B U2 F2 L D' // edges; ab3c (10-3/26)
Skeleton: U D B' L D' L2 F2 @ U2 B' R B U2 F2 L D' F2 D' F' D' L2 U' R2 B' R B L
@ = B D2 B' U2 B D2 B' U2 // 3 cancel (8-3/31)

Second one:
B' U' D' F // EO (4/4)
D' R2 L // 222 (3/7)
U' R' U B2 // 223 (4/11)
(R2 U2 R2 U2 R U' R) // F2L (7/18)
(L' U2 L U L' U L) // edges; ab3c (7/25)
Skeleton: B' U' D' F D' R2 L U' @ R' U B2 L' U' L U' L' U2 L R' U R' U2 R2 U2 R2
@ = U' L U R2 U' L' U R2 // 2 cancel (8-2/31)

(IF says there's an insert on the second one that'd cancel 3 moves. Might've missed it because I was rushing through the insertion.)

Is there something nicer that can be done with the second start? 11 moves EO+223 is nice, but I couldn't get a nice continuation from there.

Edit: messing with Cube Explorer, I find this (not very good) 3c skeleton, but it almost looks legit!
B' U' D' F // EO (4/4)
D' R2 L // 222 (3/7)
U' R' U B2 // 223 (4/11)
R' U L U2 R' U2 R U R U R2 L' U2 // magic?? (13/24)


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## WillyTheWizard (Jan 14, 2018)

How do u generate fmc prints


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## obelisk477 (Jan 14, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> dadams weekly #212
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After the nice 11 move start, just do U'. That leaves 5c3e, which is just 3 insertions, and IF found a pretty easy to recognize 27


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## xyzzy (Jan 15, 2018)

obelisk477 said:


> After the nice 11 move start, just do U'. That leaves 5c3e, which is just 3 insertions, and IF found a pretty easy to recognize 27



I miss the most obvious things sometimes! Thanks.


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## Robert Marik (Jan 20, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> I miss the most obvious things sometimes! Thanks.


I submitted the same 2x2x3. Then I did orientation with respect to the second axis, as suggested in December in this forum https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/introducing-a-variation-for-fewest-moves.67299/(4 moves). The rest was easy. This produced 29 moves solution with 2x2 edge cycle and 3-corners cycle at the end (could be 28 if the corner cycle is inserted properly). I look forward to see other solution when the competition finishes.


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## mazh (Jan 21, 2018)

Weekly Competition 2018-03 
R' U' F B2 D2 B' U2 L2 B2 L2 F' R2 B' D2 R' D2 B R2 U' B' L R U' F2 R' U' F


Spoiler: 24 moves



NISS
B' U B' U B //222
L //EO
B D2 B' D //block
F' D2 F D' //block
F' U' F' U B2 F' D' F' D B2 //ALL


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## G2013 (Jan 26, 2018)

Just cancelled 7 moves in an insertion... 
Scramble: R' U' F B2 R' F2 R2 B2 R F2 R' D2 R F' R U2 R' D' U' F U R' D R' U' F


Spoiler



Inverse: F' U R D' R U' F' U D R U2 R' F R' D2 R F2 R' B2 R2 F2 R B2 F' U R

R B' R' B D F' //Pseudo 2x2x3
[D2 L2 //f2l-2 pseudo
B D B' D' B D B' D' //pair
F L' F' L D' L D L' F' //some sort of VLS?
R F R B2 R' F R B2 R2 //to Backup in 34 moves]

Skeleton: R B' R' B D F' D2 L2 B D B' D' B (F2 D B' D' *F2 D B D'*)* D B' D' F* L' F' L D' L D L' F' (25)

Final solution: R B' R' B D F' D2 L2 B D B' D' B F2 D B' D' F' L' F' L D' L D L' F' (26!!!!!! 7 moves cancelled!!!!)


Solution was 26 moves, PB is 25... these two attempts were done in a row (with some weeks in between), so I probably got PB mo3 without noticing it 
Of course the insertion was optimal af, according to IF

EDIT: the solve previous to the 25 was a 35, giving a (35,25,26) = 28.66 PB mo3!


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## guysensei1 (Jan 28, 2018)

My solutions for Medan Open 2018, 28.67 NR mean 

1)R' U' F R2 D' F2 L2 U B2 U' B2 R B F U' B2 L B U F2 R B' F R' U' F, 27 moves



Spoiler



(U B' R U2)//2 squares (4/4)
B2 U' F U//2x2x3 (4/8)
(B D B2 L' B)//EO (5/13)
(D2 L)//F2L-1 (2/15)
(D' L D' L')//leaves 3 pairs (4/19)
(D B L B' D' B L' B')//pairs comm (8/27)

Final: B2 U' F U B L B' D B L' B' D' L D L' D L' D2 B' L B2 D' B' U2 R' B U' (27)

Alternate pairs comm that could be used: (B' D L D' L' D' B D), gives same solution length though.



2)R' U' F U2 L2 B' R2 B F2 R2 D' F2 R B F R D' B L' U2 F2 U' R' U' F, 30 moves



Spoiler



L2 F2 D L2//2x2x2 (4/4)
(L B' R' B L' D B R2 D R)//f2l (10/14)
(B' D' B' L B L' D B D')//random LL alg, leaves 3C (9/23)

Skeleton: L2 F2 D L2 D B' D' L B' L' B D * B R' D' R2 B' D' L B' R B L'

*= D2 L U L' D2 L U' L'

Final: L2 F2 D L2 D B' D' L B' L' B D' L U L' D2 L U' L' B R' D' R2 B' D' L B' R B L' (30)

A bit disappointed that only 1 cancels, and it was optimal too. Also disappointed that I got such a poor solution considering the 14 move F2L. Can anyone find a better solution with my F2L?



3)R' U' F L2 D2 U' R2 F2 R2 U' F2 D2 F U' L2 B' U2 B' D B D R' B' F2 R' U' F, 29 moves



Spoiler



(R' D2 B)//square (3/3)
(B' F R F B)//another square+preserve pair (5-2/8-2)
(U B' R B)//pseudo 2x2x2+2 squares (4/10)
U2//pseudo correction (1/11)
(U R2 D R D')//make a 1x2x3 (5/16) 
(R U' R2 D R')//F2L (5/21)
(R' B2 R2 D' R' D R' B2 R)//LL (9-1/30-1)

Final: U2 R' B2 R D' R D R2 B2 R2 D' R2 U R' D R' D' R2 U' B' R' B U' B' F' R' F' D2 R (29)

Found this in the first 15 minutes but didnt find anything better in the remaining time...


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## mazh (Feb 6, 2018)

guysensei1 said:


> My solutions for Medan Open 2018, 28.67 NR mean
> 
> 1)R' U' F R2 D' F2 L2 U B2 U' B2 R B F U' B2 L B U F2 R B' F R' U' F, 27 moves
> 
> ...



My solutions for this competition. 26 26 29=27.00

1)R' U' F R2 D' F2 L2 U B2 U' B2 R B F U' B2 L B U F2 R B' F R' U' F , 26 moves


Spoiler: solution1



NISS
U B2 R U2 // pseudo-222+2x122(4/4)
D' L' D' L2 B2 // DEC(5/9)
NISS
F2 L F L' // TEC(4/13)
D' F' D // L3E4C(3/16)

Skeleton: * F2 L F L' D' F' D B2 L2 D L # D U2 R' B2 U'
# = B' F' U' F U B (6/22)
* = L B' L' F2 L B L' F2 (8-4/30-4)



2)R' U' F U2 L2 B' R2 B F2 R2 D' F2 R B F R D' B L' U2 F2 U' R' U' F , 26 moves


Spoiler: solution2



L2 F2 D L2 // 222(4/4)
R B' D' B' R // DEC(5/9)
B2 L' D # L D' // TEC(5/14)
U' * B2 U B' // L5C(4/18)
# = D R' D' L D R D' L' (8-4/26-4)
* = U' F' U B2 U' F U B2 (8-4/30-4)

And anthor better skeleton(but IF says 20+8-1):
L2 F2 D L2 // 222(4/4)
NISS
L B' R' L' // block(4/8)
B D B R B R2 // block(6/14)
B' D B' D' B D2 // L3C(6/20)



3)R' U' F L2 D2 U' R2 F2 R2 U' F2 D2 F U' L2 B' U2 B' D B D R' B' F2 R' U' F , 29 moves


Spoiler: solution3



NISS
R' # L' F' L' F' B2 // 2x122(6/6)
D2 R U F' * U' F D R' // DEC+122(8/14)
U' B U' B' U' // L5C(5/19)
# = B2 L' F2 L B2 L'F2 L (8-3/27-3)
* = F2 U' B U F2 U' B' U (8-3/32-3)


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## Daniel Lin (Feb 16, 2018)

I wanna get good at FMC so I can be cool like @Cale S . I currently suck, but I got a pretty lucky solve with no NISS. Tied PB

Scramble: B' F2 U' L2 D B2 D' L2 U R2 U B' L U' F L2 U2 L' F2 U2

U2 L' U B' R' D R // 2x2x2 (7/7)
F2 U2 F L' U L' // F2L - 1 (6/13)
F2 L' F' L F' L' F L // 3c (8/21)

Skeleton: * U2 L' U B' R' D R F2 U2 F L' U L' F2 L' F' L F' L' F L
* = [U B U', F2] (8)

Solution: U B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U2 L' U B' R' D R F2 U2 F L' U L' F2 L' F' L F' L' F L (29)


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## Cale S (Feb 16, 2018)

Daniel Lin said:


> I wanna get good at FMC so I can be cool like @Cale S . I currently suck, but I got a pretty lucky solve with no NISS. Tied PB
> 
> Scramble: B' F2 U' L2 D B2 D' L2 U R2 U B' L U' F L2 U2 L' F2 U2
> 
> ...



7 move 2x2x2 is how I got 25 on my first official attempt  

here's another one (kinda)
L' B U' R' F' // EO
@ L2 F2 // pseudo 2x2x2
U' L2 R U' R' U R ^ // 3c5e
U F2 U' D R2 D' // 3e3c

@ = B2 D L2 F2 R2 U F2 L2
^ = [R', U' L U]

Solution: L' B U' R' F' B2 D L2 F2 R' L2 U' R' L U R U' L' U2 F2 U' D R2 D'
24 Moves


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## coldsun0630 (Feb 16, 2018)

24 HTM w/ Roux.

Scramble: L2 U2 B2 F2 R2 U F2 D' B2 U2 L D F2 L F2 D R U B' L R'
Solution: L2 U R' D' U2 B D2 L' D2 B2 U2 R2 D' R D' F' D F2 D' L2 R2 B2 L R' (24)

L2 U R' // three pairs (3/3)
D' U2 B' [1] U2 // two squares (4/7)
R' D' R D' // arrange some pairs (4/11)
F' D F2 D' // AB5E (4/15)
L2 R2 B2 L R' // AB3E (5/20)

[1]: B2 D2 L' D2 B2 U2 R' U2 // (4/24)


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## Cale S (Feb 16, 2018)

Randomly tried an official scramble and got an interesting solution 
the first 12 moves were the first thing I tried, and I found it at the comp but don't think I got anything good 
3rd scramble of Blind and Whatnot 2016

R2 F2 D' L2 D R2 D R2 U F' L' B2 D' U2 L2 U' L2 F' D2

D' F' D2 B L F2 // 2x2x2
L @ B L' D R2 B ^ // weird stuff
@ = R2 U' R' U2 F' U' F2 R' F' // 3-twist + 2-flip to L3C
^ = [B R' B', L']

D' F' D2 B L F2 L R2 U' R' U2 F' U' F2 R' F' B L' D R2 B2 R' B' L' B R B' L
28 moves


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## Daniel Lin (Feb 17, 2018)

Day 2 of trying to suck less at FMC. Any tips/better solutions would be appreciated

Scramble: R' D2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 D2 F2 U' F2 L2 B' U' B' D' F' L2 R U2 B2

(R D F' R' B) // 2x2x2 (5/5)
U F' U R U R' // more blocks (6/11)
(U B' U B F U' F' U' L U2 F U2 F') // 2e2c (13/24)

Skeleton: U * F' U R U R' F U2 F' U2 L' U F U F' B' U' B U' B' R F D' R' 
* = R' L' F R' F' R L F2 R' F' R F2 R (13 :/) 

Solution: U R' L' F R' F' R L F2 R' F' R F2 R F' U R U R' F U2 F' U2 L' U F U F' B' U' B U' B' R F D' R' (37)


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## theos (Feb 17, 2018)

Any ideas on how to proceed from this promising looking start?

*Scramble:* F' U' L' D2 B2 L' U2 D L' R2 U' R' L' U L2 B2 R' L F2 R B2 F U' R

2x2x2: F2 U L' U2 B' [5/5]
F2L-1: L F' U2 F' U F' L2 [7/12]



Spoiler: My solution using a different continuation after 2x2x2



F2 U L' U2 B' U2 F2 L' U F2 L' F L2 U2 L' R' U L U' R L' B' D2 B U' B' D2 B L' F2 (30)

2x2x2: F2 U L' U2 B' [5/5]
2x2x3: U2 F2 L' F' (F2) [5/10]
EO: F U F2 L' F [3/13]
F2L-1: L2 U2 L' U * L U' L2 [7/20]
AB4C: L @ U' L' [2/22]
Insert corners at *: U' R' U L U' R U L' [2/24]
Insert corners at @: B' D2 B U' B' D2 B U [6/30]


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## BQ (Feb 19, 2018)

theos said:


> Any ideas on how to proceed from this promising looking start?
> 
> *Scramble:* F' U' L' D2 B2 L' U2 D L' R2 U' R' L' U L2 B2 R' L F2 R B2 F U' R
> 
> ...



I found a pll skip solution:


Spoiler



2x2x2: F2 U L' U2 B' [5/5]
F2L-1: L F' U2 F' U F' L2 [7/12]
F2L: (R' F' R) [3/15]
OLL: (R' F' R F' R' F2 R D R F R' F' D')[13-3/25]
PLL: (F')[1/26]


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## Hssandwich (Feb 19, 2018)

Daniel Lin said:


> Day 2 of trying to suck less at FMC. Any tips/better solutions would be appreciated
> 
> Scramble: R' D2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 D2 F2 U' F2 L2 B' U' B' D' F' L2 R U2 B2
> 
> ...


R' D2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 D2 F2 U' F2 L2 B' U' B' D' F' L2 R U2 B2

If a 2x2x2 has no pairs, try inserting a move somewhere, here, you can do
(<F/F2/F'> R D F' R' B) (none are particularly good)
(R <F/F2/F'> D F' R' B) (F makes a pair)
(R D <U/U2/U'> F' R' B) (none are great)
(R D F' <U/U2/U'> R' B) (none are great)
(R D F' R' <U/U2/U'> B) (one pair with U2)

This 2x2x2 here wasn't particularly good, but when doing this, we saw that (F) made a pair when done before the 2x2x2.
Now, this seems a bit more obvious:
(F) //pair
(R D) //square
(U F') // another square
5 moves to 2 squares is decent, and it leads to 3 9 move 2x2x3s too 
(F R D U F')
(R2 F2 R B)
and
(F R D U F')
(R F2 R2 B) //this one has two pairs
and
(F R D U F')
L' B' R' (R2) // one pair

Another thing to try is just looking for ways to make 1 move pairs from the original scramble, which found us the 2x2x3s. This doesn't lead to much on this scramble though...

Also, there's a 4 move 2x2x2 if you play around
(D' B U R)
Then some EO continuations are decent
(F2 L' F2 L' F') //EO+square
or
(L2 F2 L F')//EO
(U L F2 U2) U //2x2x3
L2 U L' U' D' L D //20 to 3c3e

Skeleton: U L2 U L' @ D' U' L D U2 ^ F2 L' U' F L' F2 L2 R' U' B' D
@ L' D' L2 D L2 D' L' D (8-3)
^ D' L U2 L' D L U2 L' (8-2)
=31 moves

Just a quickish solution, turned out alright. Hope this helps


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## Daniel Lin (Feb 20, 2018)

Hssandwich said:


> Also, there's a 4 move 2x2x2 if you play around
> (D' B U R)
> Then some EO continuations are decent
> (F2 L' F2 L' F') //EO+square



oh wow, didn't see that 2x2
i tried that start but without the F2 before EO
(D' B U R)
(L' F2 L' F')
(F2 L2 U F2) // blocks
F2 U L U' L2 U L2 U' // L4C

skeleton: F2 U L U' L2 U L2 U' F2 U' L2 F' L F2 L R' U' B' D
IF says 29 is optimal



Hssandwich said:


> Just a quickish solution, turned out alright. Hope this helps


thanks!


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## 1001010101001 (Feb 20, 2018)

I got my first non-DNF.


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## theos (Feb 20, 2018)

After playing around a lot more with my partial solution I got this:

*Scramble: F' U' L' D2 B2 L' U2 D L' R2 U' R' L' U L2 B2 R' L F2 R B2 F U' R*
_2x2x2: F2 U L' U2 B' [5/5]
F2L-1: L F' U2 F' U F' L2 * [7/12]_
Orient F-layer edges: (U F' U') [3/15]
AB3C: (F2 R' F R F' R' F2 R F') [9/24]
Insert at * (from IF): U F D F' U' F D' F' [6/30]
*Solution: F2 U L' U2 B' L F' U2 F' U F' L2 U F D F' U' F D' R' F2 R F R' F' R F2 U F U' (30)*
...which is ultimately not any better than my 1 hour solution 



BQ said:


> I found a pll skip solution:
> 2x2x2: F2 U L' U2 B' [5/5]
> F2L-1: L F' U2 F' U F' L2 [7/12]
> F2L: (R' F' R) [3/15]
> ...


Thanks BQ - this is awesome! I think I get too tunnel-visioned into forcing a skeleton for inserts that I can miss these sort of solutions. On the other hand I don't know 1-look OLL so I'd probably never have spotted this one anyway.

But in that spirit, I turned to working on Daniel Lin's scramble to try get a similar PLL skip. Spent way too long on it and not sure how useful this will be for him, but I had fun... 



Daniel Lin said:


> Day 2 of trying to suck less at FMC. Any tips/better solutions would be appreciated
> 
> Scramble: R' D2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 D2 F2 U' F2 L2 B' U' B' D' F' L2 R U2 B2
> 
> ...



Starting with Daniel Lin's 2x2x2 I eventually found the following:

*Scramble: R' D2 F2 D2 B2 D' R2 D2 F2 U' F2 L2 B' U' B' D' F' L2 R U2 B2*
_2x2x2 (from Daniel Lin): (R D F' R' B) [5/5]_
2x2x3: F2 L' F U2 F (F2) [6/11]
EO: F U F' [2/13]
F2L-1: U L' U' L2 U L' [6/19]
F2L: U2 L' U2 L [4/23]
OCLL (Antisune): L' U' L U' L' U2 L [4/27]
PLL (Skip): U' [1/28]
*Solution: F2 L' F U2 F2 U F' U L' U' L2 U L' U2 L' U L U' L' U2 L U' F2 B' R F D' R' (28)*

I'll try and keep an eye out for these opportunities in my future solves.


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## Jan Bentlage (Feb 22, 2018)

I just found a really easy 18-move solution on an official scramble 
The scramble is from ZiboOpen2017
R' U' F D L2 U2 R2 F2 D' R2 F D2 R' B2 L B F R' F' L2 R' U R' U' F

2x2x2: (B' L' U' B2 U' R2)
F2L-1: U F
finish: (F L2 F U' L U2 B' U' B L2)

Solution: U F L2 B' U B U2 L' U F' L2 F' R2 U B2 U L B (18)


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## Duncan Bannon (Feb 22, 2018)

If someone with little experience wanted to get 30-40 movecount, where would I start? I’m interested in learning some FMC.


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## Sue Doenim (Feb 22, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> If someone with little experience wanted to get 30-40 movecount, where would I start? I’m interested in learning some FMC.


 Check out this tutorial. It's super in depth and covers everything you need to know. I think SpeedCubeReview also has a pretty nice video tutorial.


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## Duncan Bannon (Feb 23, 2018)

Sue Doenim said:


> Check out this tutorial. It's super in depth and covers everything you need to know. I think SpeedCubeReview also has a pretty nice video tutorial.



Thank you very much. After posting I did find the SpeedCubeReview Series and will continue to watch it. However the other thread will surely by useful. Thanks!


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## BQ (Feb 23, 2018)

theos said:


> Thanks BQ - this is awesome! I think I get too tunnel-visioned into forcing a skeleton for inserts that I can miss these sort of solutions. On the other hand I don't know 1-look OLL so I'd probably never have spotted this one anyway.



In fact, I don't know 1-look OLL too. I just tried it.


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## xyzzy (Feb 24, 2018)

Got three 28-move solves at SG Cube Championship 2018! (… but two of them were for the same scramble lol)

Really happy about getting a sub-30 official average (by the smallest possible margin, with a 29.67) after a drought of sub-30 singles at home.



Spoiler: #1: 28 moves



scramble:
R' U' F L2 F2 L2 F U2 F D2 L2 U2 F L2 D F D2 F' L' B2 F D B2 R' U' F
solution:
L' U B' U2 L2 F D' F' D F
D' F2 D2 R' D2 R D F L D
L' D' L D' L' B' U' L

L' U F D2 B2 // blocks (5/5)
(L') // moar blox (1/6)
R2 U2 // arrange blocks (2/8)
F' D F2 D' F' // set up edges (5/13)
U L2 U2 // ab5c (3/16)

Skeleton: L' # U F D2 B2 @ R2 U2 F' D F2 D' F' U L2 U2 L
@ = [B2, L' F L] // 2 cancel
# = [L F2 L', B2] // 2 cancel (16-4/28)

Missed optimal insertions (26 moves) because I'm dumb.

Another 28-mover (the one I actually wrote down, because _ZBLL style points_):
(L' U B) // two squares + pair (3/3)
L' U B' U2 L2 // eoxxcross (5/8)
F D' F' D F D' F2 D' F // F2L (9/17)
F' D' R' D2 R D F L D L' D' L D' L' // optimal ZBLL (14-3/28)





Spoiler: #2: 33 moves



scramble:
R' U' F D2 B2 D2 B2 F' U2 R2 D2 L2 B L' U2 R2 U' R' F L D2 L2 F' R' U' F
solution:
L2 U R F D' F D U2 R U'
R' U' F' U F U' B U' B' U
F R B' U B2 R2 U' L' U R2
U' L U'

(U2 B2 U' B) // pseudo222 + two pairs (4/4)
L2 U R F D' F D // pseudo223 (7/11)
(R' F' U' B U B') // xxxcross (6/17)
(U F' U' F U R U R' U2) // ZBLS; ab3c (9/26)

Skeleton: L2 U R F D' F D U2 R U' R' U' F' U F U' B U' B' U F R B' U B2 @ U2
@ = [R2, U' L' U] // 1 cancel (8-1/33)

26-move ab3c isn't that good, but I was kinda desperate. (I think? I actually don't remember much of what went on at the comp because I've been so sleep deprived lately.)

Backup (36 moves, but ZBLL style points again!):
F' (B L2 B2) R' // xcross (5/5)
F L F' L2 U L U' // second slot (7/12)
B' U B U2 F' L' F U // eo + third slot (8/20)
L' F L F' // last slot (4/24)
U L U' L F2 D F2 D' L' D' L D // optimal ZBLL (12/36)





Spoiler: #3: 28 moves



scramble:
R' U' F L2 R2 D2 R2 U' B2 R2 D L2 D' U L D' F' D2 U R' U L' F2 R' U' F
solution:
D L2 D F2 L F' L' F2 L D F D' F2 U' F D2 F' U F D' F D2 F D' F' R2 B2 F'

I immediately saw the three-move 222 block on inverse after doing the scramble, but my first solution (29) started with the normal scramble anyway.

First solution (29):
L B2 R' B' R' @ B // pseudo223 (6/6)
(L2) // align (1/7)
(F2 U L R' F' L' R) // eo + F2L-1 (7/14)
(F U F' U2 F U F' U' F U2) // F2L; ab3c (10/24)
@ = [R', B L' B'] // 3 cancel (8-3/29)

Second solution (28):
(F2 B2 R2) // 222 (3/3)
(F D F' D) // pseudo223 + three pairs (4/7)
D L2 D F' L // eo + F2L-1 (5/12)
L' F' L F' L' F2 L // tripod (7-3/16)
D F D' F' D F D' // edges; ab3c (7-1/22)

Skeleton: D L2 D F2 L F' L' F2 L D F D' F' @ D F D2 F D' F' R2 B2 F2
@ = [F' U' F, D2] // 2 cancel (8-2/28)

Also found an OCLL skip into J perm based on the above start, but it's 30 moves and I found it after the 29-move solution, so it's useless.
(F2 B2 R2 F D F' D) D L2 D F' L // above (12/12)
F' D F2 D' F2 D F D' // F2L (8/20)
R2 D' F' D R2 U' B U' B' U2 // J perm (10/30)

For some reason I didn't think to check (L2 R2 B2) as a start even though I had a lot of time left.


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## guysensei1 (Feb 24, 2018)

27.33 FMC NR mean solutions at Singapore Cube Championship 2018, tied with Feliks and Mats 

1) 28 moves, R' U' F L2 F2 L2 F U2 F D2 L2 U2 F L2 D F D2 F' L' B2 F D B2 R' U' F



Spoiler



L' U F//square (3/3)
(L' F2 U' R2)//2x2x3 with unintended EO (4/7)
(D2 B D2 B2 D)//3C3E (5/12)

I was low on time, so this was the best I could do:

L' U F D' ** B2 * D2 B' D2 R2 U F2 L
*=D2 B2 D2 B' D2 B' D2 B2
**=B2 R F' R' B2 R F R'//not even optimal, i ran out of time 

Final: L' U F D' B2 R F' R' B2 R F R' B2 D2 B2 D2 B' D2 B' D2 B2 D2 B' D2 R2 U F2 L (28)

IF says optimal for the 3C3E was 23, but with a 6 mover nested inside a corner comm that cancelled 0



2) 27 moves, R' U' F D2 B2 D2 B2 F' U2 R2 D2 L2 B L' U2 R2 U' R' F L D2 L2 F' R' U' F



Spoiler



D' R D F'//EO (4/4)
L2 U R F2//2x2x2 (4/8)
(U2 B2 U2 B2) B2//2x2x3 (5/13)
(R2 U R2)//square(3/16)
(U R' U)//pseudo F2L (3/19)
(R' U' R' U R' U' R2 U2)//sune, cancels into the pseudo fix (8/27)

Final: D' R D F' L2 U R F2 B2 U2 R2 U R U' R U R U' R U' R2 U' R2 B2 U2 B2 U2 (27)

Pretty happy with this, first time i used an EO start in comp  lucky endings are not a crime.



3) R' U' F L2 R2 D2 R2 U' B2 R2 D L2 D' U L D' F' D2 U R' U L' F2 R' U' F



Spoiler



(F2)//square (1/1)
D2 L D' R2 B2//2x2x3 (5/6)
(B' U' B U2)//F2L-1 (4/10)
F' L F' D F D' F//F2L (7/17)
L U B L B' L' B L B' L' U'//LL (11-1/28-1)

Final: D2 L D' R2 B2 F' L F' D F D' F L U B L B' L' B L B' L' U B' U B F2 (27)

once again, lucky endings are not a crime 

I did find this interesting skeleton in the remaining time but didnt think it was worth it:

(F2)//square (1/1)
D2 L D' R2 B2//2x2x3 (5/6)
F U F' L2 U2//2 twisted corners+4E (5/11)


I shall also post Firstian Fushada's 24 move solution on this scramble here:


Spoiler



(F2 B2 R2)//2x2x2 (3/3)
(F2 D' F L' D2 L')//2x2x3+make pair (6/9)
(F2 D2 F')//F2L-1 (3/12)
(D' L D' L')//3C (4/16)
(R' B R F' R' B' R F)//Fusheen doesnt know insertions, but this was the optimal insertion anyway (8/24)



EDIT:


xyzzy said:


> Got three 28-move solves at SG Cube Championships 2018! (… but two of them were for the same scramble lol)
> 
> Really happy about getting a sub-30 official average (by the smallest possible margin, with a 29.67) after a drought of sub-30 singles at home.



Congrats! You're coming scarily close to NR now :3


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## xyzzy (Feb 24, 2018)

guysensei1 said:


> Congrats! You're coming scarily close to NR now :3


Thanks, and congrats to you too!


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## Duncan Bannon (Feb 26, 2018)

R' U' F D B' U R D2 R B U' F2 B2 U' L2 F2 D R2 B2 D B2 F R' U' F

X2 Y2
RW' R' U RW' D' U2 R' U' B U B' (11 Moves f2l-1)

I don't get how to get a good sleketon after this.

Y'
R U' R' F' U F R U' R2 F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' (18) (I somehow found this to 2 twisted corners)
Y2 F2 U' R F2 D' F2 D R2 U' R U F2 (11)

40 total. But I used Cube explore to get the twisted corner case. What would you guys do after F2l-1? What algs should a FMCer want to learn? If any?


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## Robert Marik (Feb 26, 2018)

Heise method is fine to continue. Orient edges by cris/cross https://www.ryanheise.com/cube/match_squares_and_orient_edges.html

x2 y2
r' R' U r' D' U2 R' U' B U B' //(11 Moves f2l-1)
F' L F L' // criss/cross


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## xyzzy (Feb 26, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> R' U' F D B' U R D2 R B U' F2 B2 U' L2 F2 D R2 B2 D B2 F R' U' F
> 
> X2 Y2
> RW' R' U RW' D' U2 R' U' B U B' (11 Moves f2l-1)
> ...


Protip: don't use rotations or wide moves. Don't think of the letters used in the notation as being short for "up"/"front"/"right"/etc., but as being short for "white"/"green"/"red"/etc. (Assuming you use WCA orientation, you get U=white and F=green for free, along with R=red and B=blue having obvious mnemonics, which leaves L=orange and D=yellow you have to explicitly memorise.)

So let's rewrite your solution first, and then work on that.

R' L' B R' D' U2 L' U' F U F' // F2L-1 (11)
B U' B' R' U R B U' B2 R B2 U' B' U' B U B' R' // ab2c (18/29)
L2 U' F L2 D' L2 D F2 U' F U L2 // corner twists (12/41)

>B U' B' R' U R B U' B2 R B2 U' B' U' B U B' R' // ab2c (18/29)
You can use B U' B' to form the pair, then insert with a sledgehammer for edge control as well. For this ZBLL case (J perm + two twisted corners), you can use either a Sune (L U L' U L U2 L') or an Antisune (B U2 B' U' B U' B') to get you to L3C. (Fun fact: this ZBLL case came up in Feliks's 38.52 555 WR, which he solved with Antisune + L3C.) This overall isn't very good, especially if you don't do insertions (7 for F2L + 8 to set up to L3C + 9 for L3C = 24 moves), but it's probably the first option I'd try.

Backing up a bit:
R' L' B R' D' // 223 - corner (5)

From here the obvious thing is to do what you did, but that led to a bad continuation so let's try something else.
L B L2 B' // F2L-2 (4/9)

It's tempting to just insert the last pair (since it's already formed!), so let's see where that leads us. We can do a normal insert (L U2 L'), AUF then normal insert (U' L U' L'), or AUF then sledgehammer (U2 L' B L B'). Let's evaluate all of them.

L U2 L' / B' U' R' U R B U' // leaves 2+2+1 corners (10/19)
U' L U' L' / F' L' U' L U' F U F' U F U // leaves 3+1 corners (15/24) (note: this ten-move alg is, I believe, a common OLL alg)
U2 L' B L B' / L U L' U L U2 L' U' // leaves 3+1 corners (13/22)

First one is shortest, but leaves five corners in a bad state (you need three 3-cycle insertions), whereas the second and third options leave the same "type" of corners left (needs two insertions), but the third is shorter and so is more likely to be useful. But what else can we try?

B' U2 B // EO (3-1/11)
L U' L' U L U' L' U2 // F2L-1, edges; leaves 2+2+1 corners (8/19)

That turned out to be useless. What about going to the inverse scramble? I don't see anything nice with standard F2L solving, so let's try EO then edges.

R' L' B R' D' // 223 - corner (5)
L B L2 B' // F2L-2 (4/9)
(L U2 L' U' B' U B U2 B' U' B) // leaves 2+2 corners (11-1/19)

If you don't feel like doing insertions, you can also solve these last four corners with a triple sexy setup ([B2: (B' L' B L)3]), and that cancels a few moves.

R' L' B R' D' // 223 - corner (5)
L B L2 B' // F2L-2 (4/9)
(L U2 L' U' B' U B U2 B' U' B) // leaves 2+2 corners (11/20)
(B L' B L B' L' B L B' L' B L B2) // L4C (13-2/31)



Duncan Bannon said:


> What algs should a FMCer want to learn? If any?


In no particular order, with a focus on last layer:


Spoiler




Optimal algs for all last layer corner 3-cycle cases. The 9- and 10-move cases (e.g. A perm) are very rarely useful for FMC since you can usually use an insertion and do a 3-cycle in 8 moves, but if you're very short on time and you're slow at insertions, this can save you from getting a DNF. The 8-move cases are all just commutators, so you don't really need to learn them as algs _per se_, although you should know which ones have multiple 8-move solutions (e.g. R B R' F R B' R' F' = F' L' B L F L' B' L).

Sune for edge permutation. (Also keep in mind that Sune preserves a pair.)
"Super Sune" (R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2), also for edge permutation, when one of the F2L slots has its edge solved and corner not solved. Preserves two pairs and corner orientation.

R' U2 R' D' r U2 r' D R2. This preserves a 2×2 square while swapping the other two edges. (This is just the standard headlights OLL alg but with some wide moves.)
Bruno (R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R) and optimal U perm (F2 U M' U2 M U F2) can also be used for edge permutation, but are generally less likely to be useful than the above options. (In particular, U perm can sometimes be replaced with a shorter edge insertion.)
L' R U R' U' L U2 R U2 R' (and inverses etc.) when there's an oriented corner and you want to swap the two edges around it while leaving the other two edges alone. There's also an RUF version of this alg, which has a different AUF: F U R' U' R F' U' R' U2 R. (Very rarely useful because of its length.)
r U' r U2 R' F R U2 r2 F. This is optimal for swapping opposite edges with no AUF. (With AUF, optimal T perm is better. Also note that this is related to an optimal J perm alg: r2 F r U' r U2 R' F R U2. You can get a whole bunch of optimal 2c2e algs just by cycling this one.)

F R U R' U' F' and mirrors/inverses for edge orientation _and permutation_. Avoid using these if you're only orienting the edges, because you can usually use edge control instead. Note that sexysledge orients and permutes the edges in the same way, so you can try both and see whether you can force AB3C instead of just AB4C.
Likewise, but for fat Sune (r U R' U R U2 r') and longsexysledge (R U2 R' U2 R' F R F' / r U2 R' U2 r' F R F'), which also flip two edges but permute them differently from F R U R' U' F'. (Note that fat Sune, longsexysledge, and their mirrors and inverses all solve the same LLEF case.)

Optimal J perms and T perm.
The 5-move VHLS algs (F R U' R' F' and F R U R' F').
F2 R U R' U' F2 for last slot. (Preserves 2-gen reduction; depending on AUF, this could either be the same move count as the usual intuitive F2L solution or be one move shorter.)
The six-move edge 3-cycle: M' U2 M U2. Writing this as L R' F2 L' R U2, we can also shift one or both of the L and R' moves to the end, e.g. L F2 L' R U2 R', to get another alg for exactly the same 3-cycle. This sometimes allows for more move cancellations.
[F' R D2 R' F, U2] for twisting two corners. (Can be used from multiple angles to increase the chances of cancelling moves.) If you have time to spare, doing two 3-cycle insertions is usually better than using this alg because you can force a ton of moves to cancel.



(I have used almost all of the algs in this list at least once in a "serious" FMC attempt. Usage of the "alternative EP" algs is a very case-by-case thing; going from AB4C to AB3C saves you one insertion (~6 moves), so Sune + AB4C (7+6+6=19) is likely to be worse than, say, Bruno + AB3C (9+6=15), but if we're comparing Sune + AB4C to Bruno + AB4C, obviously the former wins. It's still _possible_ that the latter ends up being shorter due to better cancellations, but it's very unlikely to make up for it in cancellations.)


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## theos (Feb 26, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> R' U' F D B' U R D2 R B U' F2 B2 U' L2 F2 D R2 B2 D B2 F R' U' F
> 
> X2 Y2
> RW' R' U RW' D' U2 R' U' B U B' (11 Moves f2l-1)
> ...



I strongly suggest learning to write your move sequences without rotations or wide moves. This will make it much easier to insert into your skeleton and find cancellations. Your solution so far removing rotations and wide moves:
R' L' B R' D' // 2x2x2 (5/5)
U2 L' // F2L-2 (2/7)
U' F U F' // F2L-1 with 2 edges, 5 corners remaining (4/11)

The easiest skeletons to finish with inserts are skeletons with only corners remaining. So the obvious way to proceed is with finishing the edges. 2-Look edges:
R U B U' B' R' // orient edges (6/17)
B' U2 B U B' U B U // permute edges (7/24)
This leaves you with 4 corners unsolved (twisted 3-cycle + 1 corner twisted in place) which can be solved with 2 corner cycle insertions. From IF this can be done in 8 moves (2x8 move cycles with 8 moves cancelling) for a total of 32 moves.

If you know 1-look edge algorithms:
F2 B' R F' R F R2 F' R F' B // solve remaining 2 edges (1 move cancels so 10/21)
This leaves you with 5 corners unsolved (5-cycle) which can be solved with 2 corner cycle insertions. From IF this can done in 10 moves (2x8 move cycles with 6 moves cancelling) for a total of 31 moves.

Personally I'd prefer to do edge orientation a lot earlier in the solve as it makes finishing the skeleton a lot easier - no need to know any last layer algorithms. For example, a quick attempt following from your 2x2x2...
R' L' B R' D' // 2x2x2 (5/5)
L B L2 // 2x2x3 (3/8)
U2 L' B L // EO (4/12)
U B' U B U2 B2 // F2L-1 (6/18)
U2 B' U2 B U // Solve remaining edges and 1 corner, leaving 4 corners (5/23)
From IF this can be done in 10 moves for a total of 33 moves.


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## Duncan Bannon (Feb 27, 2018)

Spoiler






xyzzy said:


> Protip: don't use rotations or wide moves. Don't think of the letters used in the notation as being short for "up"/"front"/"right"/etc., but as being short for "white"/"green"/"red"/etc. (Assuming you use WCA orientation, you get U=white and F=green for free, along with R=red and B=blue having obvious mnemonics, which leaves L=orange and D=yellow you have to explicitly memorise.)



That's simple, I will start doing that.



> So let's rewrite your solution first, and then work on that.
> 
> R' L' B R' D' U2 L' U' F U F' // F2L-1 (11)
> B U' B' R' U R B U' B2 R B2 U' B' U' B U B' R' // ab2c (18/29)
> ...



How did you get ab2c? After forming the pair, why did you do what you did to get ab2c? Also, how would the ZBLL leave your l3c? wouldn't it leave a solved cube? Why is "this overall isn't very good"



> Backing up a bit:
> R' L' B R' D' // 223 - corner (5)
> 
> From here the obvious thing is to do what you did, but that led to a bad continuation so let's try something else.
> L B L2 B' // F2L-2 (4/9)


What makes this a bad continuation? It leaves a pair.



> It's tempting to just insert the last pair (since it's already formed!), so let's see where that leads us. We can do a normal insert (L U2 L'), AUF then normal insert (U' L U' L'), or AUF then sledgehammer (U2 L' B L B'). Let's evaluate all of them.
> 
> L U2 L' / B' U' R' U R B U' // leaves 2+2+1 corners (10/19)
> U' L U' L' / // leaves 3+1 corners (15/24) (note: this ten-move alg is, I believe, a common OLL alg)
> ...


You just do EO and EP right? In one step, that's what B' U' R' U R B U'/ F' L' U' L U' F U F' U F U/ L U L' U L U2 L' U', are right?



> B' U2 B // EO (3-1/11)
> L U' L' U L U' L' U2 // F2L-1, edges; leaves 2+2+1 corners (8/19)
> 
> That turned out to be useless.


Just EO then doing a pair, did you do anything special to get all edges done? Is it bad cause it would take 2 cycles or like 20 moves?



> What about going to the inverse scramble? I don't see anything nice with standard F2L solving, so let's try EO then edges.
> 
> 
> R' L' B R' D' // 223 - corner (5)
> ...


I seem to struggle to get a skeleton like - (L U2 L' U' B' U B U2 B' U' B) why did you write it as 2+2 corners.



> If you don't feel like doing insertions, you can also solve these last four corners with a triple sexy setup ([B2: (B' L' B L)3]), and that cancels a few moves.
> 
> R' L' B R' D' // 223 - corner (5)
> L B L2 B' // F2L-2 (4/9)
> ...



For some reason I couldn't get L4C to work. How did you know triple sexy would work? When you say "if you don't feel like doing insertions" do you mean corner comm as a insertion?




> In no particular order, with a focus on last layer:
> 
> Optimal algs for all last layer corner 3-cycle cases. The 9- and 10-move cases (e.g. A perm) are very rarely useful for FMC since you can usually use an insertion and do a 3-cycle in 8 moves, but if you're very short on time and you're slow at insertions, this can save you from getting a DNF. The 8-move cases are all just commutators, so you don't really need to learn them as algs _per se_, although you should know which ones have multiple 8-move solutions (e.g. R B R' F R B' R' F' = F' L' B L F L' B' L).
> 
> ...



Thank you ever so much for the help, I know I asked about another million questions, so sorry for that. Thank you very very much.



@theos - Ill get you a reply later. Thanks for the help. It may be in a PM.

@Robert Marik - Would you then finish it as a 4 corner 2 edge comm?


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## xyzzy (Feb 27, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> How did you get ab2c? After forming the pair, why did you do what you did to get ab2c? Also, how would the ZBLL leave your l3c? wouldn't it leave a solved cube? Why is "this overall isn't very good"


The ab2c is your solution (with the weird sledge then cancel into OLL thing), lol. I meant that if you did this:
R' L' B R' D' U2 L' U' F U F' // F2L-1 (11)
B U' B' // pair (3/14)
U B' R B R' // VHLS (5/19)
you'll be left with a last layer case that can be solved by doing Sune or Antisune, then a 3-cycle. (A decent proportion of adjacent-EP ZBLL cases are like that, actually.) Since we're doing FMC, it's better to do the 3-cycle as an insertion, rather than at the end of the solve. (Is this clearer?)

L U L' U L U2 L' U // edges; ab3c (8/27)

From Insertion Finder:
L' [@1] R' B R' D' U2 L' U' F U F' B U' B' U B' R B R' L U L' U L U2 L' U
Insert at @1: L U' R2 U L' U' R2 U
Fewest moves: 33. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: U' R2 U L' U' R2 U R' B R' D' U2 L' U' F U F' B U' B' U B' R B R' L U L' U L U2 L' U

I said that it's "not very good" because overall it would have used 27 moves to get to the last three corners. (I guess it's a matter of what your goal is; if you're aiming at sub-35, it's fine, but it's not good enough for sub-30 unless you get very lucky with insertions.)

>What makes this a bad continuation? It leaves a pair.
There's a pair, but it led to an awkward last layer, so that's bad.

>You just do EO and EP right? In one step, that's what B' U' R' U R B U'/ F' L' U' L U' F U F' U F U/ L U L' U L U2 L' U', are right?
Yes. (Well, the last one is a Sune, which doesn't affect EO.) I'm not entirely sure which cases are worth learning, other than those I listed in my previous post.

>Just EO then doing a pair, did you do anything special to get all edges done? Is it bad cause it would take 2 cycles or like 20 moves?
Nothing special. You can kinda track the edges to see if the EP will end up being solved after doing your F2L pair. It's bad because you need three 3-cycles when the corner cycles have length 2, 2, 1 (counting a corner twist as a "1-cycle"), and that takes 18-ish moves depending on how much you can cancel. Combined with a 19-move skeleton, you're looking at 37 moves total.

>I seem to struggle to get a skeleton like - (L U2 L' U' B' U B U2 B' U' B) why did you write it as 2+2 corners.
Parenthesised moves are done on the inverse scramble. The solution up to (but not including) that part is: R' L' B R' D' L B L2 B'. Do the inverse of these moves on a solved cube (i.e. B L2 B' L' D R B' L R), then do the inverse of the scramble sequence (F' U R …). 

(L U2 L' U' B' U B U2 B' U' B) // leaves 2+2 corners (11-1/19)
The L U2 L' brings the green-white-red pair onto the white face, while orienting the edges. (Doing multiple things at once is good!) U' B' U B extends that pair into a square, and U2 B' U' B solves the last three edges. This leaves four corners.

Also, now that I'm looking at it again, if you do the inverse of [B2: (B' L' B L)3] instead (which permutes the corners in the same way), you get to cancel more moves and get sub-30, without even using insertions:
R' L' B R' D' // 223 - corner (5)
L B L2 B' // F2L-2 (4/9)
(L U2 L' U' B' U B U2 B' U' B) // leaves 2+2 corners (11/20)
(B2 L' B' L B L' B' L B L' B' L B') // L4C (13-4/29)

Insertion Finder finds a 28, if you do L4C with insertions instead of triplesexy:
R' L' B R' D' L B L2 B2 U B U2 B' U' B [@1] U L U2 L'
Insert at @1: D L D' R2 D L' D' R2
After the 1st insertion: R' L' B R' D' L B L2 B2 U B U2 B' U' B D L D' R2 D L' D' R2 U L [@2] U2 L'
Insert at @2: L' U' R2 U L U' R2 U
Fewest moves: 28. 7 moves cancelled
The final solution: R' L' B R' D' L B L2 B2 U B U2 B' U' B D L D' R2 D L' D' U L U' R2 U' L'


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## Duncan Bannon (Feb 27, 2018)

Thank you sooooo much. I understand it much much better. If I have further questions do you mind answering them? If so, should I post em here (vs PM)?


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## xyzzy (Feb 27, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> Thank you sooooo much. I understand it much much better. If I have further questions do you mind answering them? If so, should I post em here (vs PM)?


If you post the questions here, other people can answer them too! (My free time isn't unlimited, unfortunately.)


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## theos (Feb 27, 2018)

To build on what xyzzy said about solving on the inverse scramble...

If you have a scramble X, then you can take a scramble X' (the inverse scramble) and find a solution S. Then S' is a solution to the original scramble. This basically means you have double the possibilities for your solve.

But where it gets really powerful is that you can switch back and forth between solving on the original scramble and the inverse scramble repeatedly throughout the solve. If you have a scramble X and a partial solution P, you can do a scramble P' X' and proceed from there. If you then add more moves Q, you can switch back to continuing on Q' X P. Continue until you have a skeleton. What makes this especially powerful is that you have double the possibilities at every step of your solve!

For your scramble, switching between original and inverse scrambles can get us this solution:
Scramble: R' U' F D B' U R D2 R B U' F2 B2 U' L2 F2 D R2 B2 D B2 F R' U' F
L' B R2 // pseudo 2x2x2 (3/3)
Switch to inverse scramble, so doing R2 B' L as pre-moves to the inverse scramble...
(D) // 2x2x2 (1/4)
(L2 U2 L F' U2) // 2x2x3 (5/9)
Switch back to original, so doing U2 F L' U2 L2 D' as pre-moves to the original scramble...
F U L U' F L // Solve edges leaving a corner 5-cycle (6/15)


Spoiler: Aside



You could have also found this by staying with the inverse scramble as (L' F' U L' U' F').


To do inserts we want a skeleton on the original scramble without any pre-moves. All the pre-moves can be shifted to the end of the solution.
Skeleton: L' B R2 F U L U' F L ... U2 F L' U2 L2 D' (15 moves)


Spoiler: Optimal insertions...



L' B R2 * F U @ L U' F L U2 F L' U2 L2 D' (15 moves)
* = R B2 R' F' R B2 R' F (6/21)
@ = U' F2 U B U' F2 U B' (4/25)
Solution: L' B R' B2 R' F' R B2 R' U B U' F2 U B' L U' F L U2 F L' U2 L2 D' (25 moves)





xyzzy said:


> Duncan Bannon said:
> 
> 
> > What algs should a FMCer want to learn? If any?
> ...



Thanks for this xyzzy. The stuff for last layer edge orientation and permutation is really useful. I consciously tried to incorporate it into my latest timed practice solve and it helped to get me one of my best solves ever within the 1 hour competition limit...
Scramble: R' U' F L U' F' U2 R2 L2 D2 B F' R F2 R2 F' L' U D2 R' F' R2 B2 R' U' F
(U2 B' D' U' L') // 2x2x2 (5/5)
(F2 R' B' R' B) // 2x2x3 (5/10)
(R2) // F2L-1 (1/11)
F2 R U' R' U // EO using sledgehammer as discussed a bit earlier (5/16)
U F U' F' U F2 U' F // AB3C, permuting edges and keeping the last layer pair using Sune as mentioned in the quote above (7/23)
Skeleton: F2 R U' R' U2 F U' F' U F2 U' F R2 B' R B R F2 L U D * B U2
Insert at *: D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B' // corner cycle (3/26)
Solution: F2 R U' R' U2 F U' F' U F2 U' F R2 B' R B R F2 L U D' B U2 B' D2 B (26 moves)


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## Duncan Bannon (Feb 27, 2018)

Scramble- U' R2 U F2 L2 F2 U' B2 D' R2 D2 F' D' R' D' B D' U L U

Or the inverse- U' L' U' D B' D R D F D2 R2 D B2 U F2 L2 F2 U' R2 U

and then I have
(R D' U L F )-2x2x2 (5/5)
(R D' R2 B-)2x2x3 (5/9)

R' F' R' F D' R D'- F2L-1 (7/16)
R D' R' D-EO (4/20)
R2 B R' B' R B R' B' F2L (8/28)
F R2 F' R' F R' F'- OLL + CO (7/35)



D R' B' F D2 B F' R' D2 (the u perm at the end) Where to insert it?


What would the final solution be? moves in ( ) done on inverse.


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## theos (Feb 27, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> Scramble- U' R2 U F2 L2 F2 U' B2 D' R2 D2 F' D' R' D' B D' U L U
> 
> Or the inverse- U' L' U' D B' D R D F D2 R2 D B2 U F2 L2 F2 U' R2 U
> 
> ...



The partial solution needs an R' at the end to turn it into an AB3E skeleton. Your skeleton is your moves on the original scramble followed by the inverse of the moves on the inverse scramble, so:
R' F' R' F D' R D' R D' R' D R2 B R' B' R B R' B' F R2 F' R' F R' F' R' ... B' * R2 D R' F' L' U' D R' (36 moves)
There isn't a nice [M, U2]-style edge insertion into this skeleton. IF says the best insertion (among many other options) is at *: B' R' U' D B2 U D' R' B (8/44)
Solution: R' F' R' F D' R D' R D' R' D R2 B R' B' R B R' B' F R2 F' R' F R' F' R' B2 R' U' D B2 U D' R' B R2 D R' F' L' U' D R' (44 moves)

Looking over your solve, I immediately see that there's no need to complicate things with an OLL step after the F2L step. Ending immediately with R' leaves us with a 29-move AB4C skeleton which is almost certainly better.


Spoiler: 29 move AB4C skeleton



(R D' U L F) // 2x2x2 from original solve (5/5)
(R D' R2 B) // 2x2x3 from original solve (4/9)
R' F' R' F D' R D' // F2L-1 from original solve (7/16)
R D' R' D // EO from original solve (4/20)
R2 B R' B' R B R' B' // F2L from original solve (8/28)
R' // AB4C (1/29)
Skeleton: R' F' R' F D' R D' R D' R' D R2 B R' B' R B * R' B' R' ... B' R2 D R' F' L' U' D R' (29 moves)
(Insertions from IF)
Insert at *: B L B' R' @ B L' B' R // Corner cycle (4/33)
Insert at @: R B R' F' R B' R' F // Corner cycle (4/37)
Solution: R' F' R' F D' R D' R D' R' D R2 B R' B' R B2 L R' F' R B' R' F B L' B2 R' B' R2 D R' F' L' U' D R' (37 moves)



And finally, completing F2L doesn't usually give you a good skeleton. You can get to a decent AB5C skeleton by just permuting the remaining edges after EO in your solution.


Spoiler: 25 move AB5C skeleton



(R D' U L F) // 2x2x2 from original solve (5/5)
(R D' R2 B) // 2x2x3 from original solve (4/9)
R' F' R' F D' R D' // F2L-1 from original solve (7/16)
R D' R' D // EO from original solve (4/20)
R B R B' R2 // AB5C by permuting edges (5/25)
Skeleton: R' F' R' F D' R D' R D' R' D R B * R B' R2 ... B' R2 D R' F' L' U' D R' (25 moves)
(Insertions from IF)
Insert at *: F L2 F' @ R2 F L2 F' R2 // Corner cycle (7/32)
Insert at @: F' L F R2 F' L' F R2 // Corner cycle (4/36)
Solution: R' F' R' F D' R D' R D' R' D R B F L2 F2 L F R2 F' L' F2 L2 F' R' B' R2 B' R2 D R' F' L' U' D R' (36 moves)


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## Duncan Bannon (Feb 27, 2018)

Perfect! That is really useful! I will try to do a few solves and get back to you on how I did. Thank you very much for your help.


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## G2013 (Mar 1, 2018)

Just got PB mo3! Rolled a 33, 25, 26 into a 25, 26, 27 

25:


Spoiler



Skrembol: R' U' F L D B2 D' F L B' R' D F U2 B' U2 F2 B' R2 U2 D2 B D2 R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R D2 B' D2 U2 R2 B F2 U2 B U2 F' D' R B L' F' D B2 D' L' F' U R

(R' D R2 U') //2 X 2x2x1
(B' D F' D' R) //2x2x3 extension
(F B' L F B' U') //6 unsolved pieces

Backup: U B F' L' B F' R' D F D' B U R2 D' R (U' L U R U' L' U R' + B L' S' L2 S L' B') (32)

Skeleton: U B F' L' B F' R' D F D' B U R2 D' (F' L2 F R F' L2 F R') R (15+8-2=21)
Next skeleton: U B F' L' B F' R' D F D' B (F U' F' U2 D2 B U B' D2 U2) U R2 D' F' L2 F (F' R L' U2 L R' F') R F' L2 F (21+7-3=25!!!!)

Final solution: U B F' L' B F' R' D F D' B U R2 D' F' R L U2 L R' F' R F' L2 F (25) HTM!!!!! PB SINGLE!


26:


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F B2 R' F2 R2 B2 R F2 R' D2 R F' R U2 R' D' U' F U R' D R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R D' R U' F' U D R U2 R' F R' D2 R F2 R' B2 R2 F2 R B2 F' U R

R B' R' B D F' //Pseudo 2x2x3
[D2 L2 //f2l-2 pseudo
B D B' D' B D B' D' //pair
F L' F' L D' L D L' F' //some sort of VLS?
R F R B2 R' F R B2 R2 //to Backup in 34 moves]

Skeleton: R B' R' B D F' D2 L2 B D B' D' B (F2 D B' D' F2 D B D') D B' D' F L' F' L D' L D L' F' (25)

Final solution: R B' R' B D F' D2 L2 B D B' D' B F2 D B' D' F' L' F' L D' L D L' F' (26!!!!!! 7 moves cancelled!!!!), giving PB mo3 = 28.66


27:


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F D F2 U' R2 F2 D L2 R2 U2 R2 U' R' U2 F' L' R D' B2 L B L' R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R L B' L' B2 D R' L F U2 R U R2 U2 R2 L2 D' F2 R2 U F2 D' F' U R

D L F D R' //Pseudo 2x2x3
U' F2 R' F R2 //Pseudo F2L-1
(R2) //Premove
(B L' B') //EO
U' L U L' U' L2 U L //L3C

Skeleton: D L F D R' U' F2 R' F R2 U' L U L' U' L2 U L B L B' R2 (22)
Backup: D L F D R' U' F2 R' F R2 U' L U L' U' L2 U L B L B' R2 L2 B R' B' L2 B R B' (30)
Insertion: D L F D R' U' (R B2 R' F2 R B2 R' F2) F2 R' F R2 U' L U L' U' L2 U L B L B' R2 (27!!!)
PB mo3 26.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Giving PB mo3 (25, 26, 27) = 26.00!!!!! :0



First time I ever get 3 sub30s in a row, and given that I don't really practice FMC often, this is super good for me. I'm content now hahaha 

Any tips are absolutely welcome and I'm grateful for them


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## Shymon (Mar 2, 2018)

R' U' F U F2 U2 F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U R F R F2 L2 R2 D L' D' F2 R' U' F
Could anyone help me with this scramble?

I couldn't find anything worth sticking to and finally gave up after an hour. The best thing I found was ~25 to l3c but that was while doing some random moves mid solution and I couldn't reconstruct it.


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## xyzzy (Mar 2, 2018)

Shymon said:


> R' U' F U F2 U2 F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U R F R F2 L2 R2 D L' D' F2 R' U' F
> Could anyone help me with this scramble?
> 
> I couldn't find anything worth sticking to and finally gave up after an hour. The best thing I found was ~25 to l3c but that was while doing some random moves mid solution and I couldn't reconstruct it.





Spoiler: ab3c, 26 moves



F D2 L B' // eo (4/4)
U' D R' // squares and pairs (3/7)
L U L U2 F2 // blox (5/12)
L U2 L U2 L2 // ab4c2e (5/17)
L2 F U2 F' L2 D2 F' R2 F D2 B' // T perm; ab3c (11-2/26)





Spoiler: ab3c, 26 moves



F D2 L B' // eo (4/4)
U' D R' // squares and pairs (3/7)
L U L U2 F2 // blox (5/12)
B2 L B R B R' L' // F2L (7/19)
L' B' L B' L' B2 L B' // edges; ab3c (8-1/26)





Spoiler: ab2c2e, 20 moves



F D2 L B' // eo (4/4)
U' D R' // squares and pairs (3/7)
L U L U2 F2 // blox (5/12)
(D' B2 D) // insert edge (3/15)
(U2 L U) // blocks (3/18)
U' L // ab2c2e (2/20)
skeleton: F D2 L B' U' D R' L U L U2 F2 U' L U' @ L' U2 D' B2 D
@ = F2 R' D2 R F2 U2 R B2 R' U2 L // T perm (11-4/27)



Can't really find anything nice either, other than the 2c2e skeleton. (20 moves for 2c2e isn't good, but cancellations make up for that.)


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## G2013 (Mar 2, 2018)

Looking for some critiques, I'm a n00b

30 mover, found in 27 minutes, gave PB avg5 (33 25 26 27 30 = 27.66)
S: R' U' F R2 U' B2 R2 U2 F2 R2 U L2 D2 B2 F' D L D L2 R' D2 F2 L U2 R' U' F
I: F' U R U2 L' F2 D2 R L2 D' L' D' F B2 D2 L2 U' R2 F2 U2 R2 B2 U R2 F' U R



Spoiler



R2 F L D U L' D' //2x2x3
B D' R' D2 B2 D' //EO + Blocks
R' B2 //F2L-1
(R B' R' B) //Pairs n stuff
R B' R2 B R2 //L3C

Skeleton: R2 F L D U L' D' B D' R' D2 B2 D' R' B2 R B' R2 B R2 B' R B R' (24)
Backup: skeleton + R2', F' L F = 31 moves
Insertion: R2 F L D U L' D' B D' R' D2 B2 D' (U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R) R' B2 R B' R2 B R2 B' R B R'
Final solve: R2 F L D U L' D' B D' R' D2 B2 D' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 B2 R B' R2 B R2 B' R B R' = 30


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## theos (Mar 2, 2018)

Shymon said:


> R' U' F U F2 U2 F2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U R F R F2 L2 R2 D L' D' F2 R' U' F
> Could anyone help me with this scramble?
> 
> I couldn't find anything worth sticking to and finally gave up after an hour. The best thing I found was ~25 to l3c but that was while doing some random moves mid solution and I couldn't reconstruct it.



Got this pretty good skeleton on the inverse scramble.
F2 U2 R U L2 F' // 2x2x2 + couple pairs (6/6)
D2 R' D' // F2L-2 for either R or B last layer (3/9)
B2 R' B R B2 // Fill in a slot to end with AB5C (5/14)

This wasn't the first 2x2x2 block I tried and I rarely have time in the hour to investigate more than the best 1 or 2 starting blocks. This took me well over an hour to find, though in retrospect I can see why this is a very promising first block start.


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## Shymon (Mar 3, 2018)

theos said:


> Got this pretty good skeleton on the inverse scramble.
> F2 U2 R U L2 F' // 2x2x2 + couple pairs (6/6)
> D2 R' D' // F2L-2 for either R or B last layer (3/9)
> B2 R' B R B2 // Fill in a slot to end with AB5C (5/14)
> ...



Wow, this skeleton looks great! Canceling 4 moves on 2 insertions gives 26 moves total. That's quite impressive for such a scramble.


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## Bubtore (Mar 3, 2018)

Swisscubing Cup I - 2018 attempt 2

Scramble // R' U' F R2 F2 U2 L2 B2 R2 U' B2 D2 F D' R' B R' F D' B2 F2 R' U' F

(F2 U' R) // EO
D F D2 // 122 block + 2 pairs
(R2 F L2 F2) // 223
B' U2 B2 U2 B' // 2E3C

Skel // D F D2 + B' U2 B2 * U2 B' F2 L2 F' R U F2 - 14

* B2 U B' U B U2 B' U B' // reduce to L3C (9-3=6)
+ D B' U' B D' B' U B (8-6=2)

Solution // D F D' B' U' B D' B2 U B U2 B' U B' U2 B' F2 L2 F' R U F2 - 22 Moves


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## Robert Marik (Mar 4, 2018)

Bubtore said:


> Swisscubing Cup I - 2018 attempt 2
> 
> Scramble // R' U' F R2 F2 U2 L2 B2 R2 U' B2 D2 F D' R' B R' F D' B2 F2 R' U' F
> 
> ...


Nice. How did you find B2 U B' U B U2 B' U B' ? Is it an alg which you remember? Or is it just reordering edges using B-U moves? In the second case, did you know before the execution of this alg which corners remain intact?


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## mazh (Mar 4, 2018)

24.33 personal ao5 PB! (24,27,24,25,24)=24.33
Last 3 scrambles are also my mo3 PB. (24,25,24)=24.33



Spoiler: 24moves, solve it without insertion



Scramble:R' U' F L2 B2 R' B2 U2 B2 F2 L R F U2 B' L' B' R' F U F' D' U2 R' U' F

NISS:
U2 B2 R L U' // 222(5/5)
D R2 // pusedo 223(2/7)
NISS:
R' // 223(1/8)
NISS:
D F' D2 F // pusedo TEC(4/12)
R' D' R // block(3/15)
F2 L2 U2 B' U' B U' L2 F' // finsh(9/24)





Spoiler: 27moves, 17L4C



Scramble:R' U' F D2 R' D2 F2 L R' F2 L2 R B' L' U' B2 R2 U F' R D F' D2 R' U' F

NISS:
U' D' B L' R U' D R' # B2 // TEC(9/9)
U2 B' U B U2 L * U' L' // L4C(8/17)

* L' U R U' L U R' U' (8-4/25-4)
# L' F2 L B2 L' F2 L B2 (8-2/29-2)





Spoiler: 24moves, 21L3C



Scramble:R' U' F L2 B R2 B R2 B D2 B' R2 U' F2 D' R B' U2 F' U' L' R2 U' R' U' F

NISS:
U L' U2 F' U F2 // 222(6/6)
B' L2 B' L' B // pusedo TEC(5/11)
NISS:
L2 F' D' F D L B' D' B D2 // L3C(10/21)

Skeleton: L2 F' D' F D L B' D' B D2 B' L B * L2 B F2 U' F U2 L U'
* B R B' L2 B R' B' L2 (8-5/29-5)





Spoiler: 25moves, 20L3C



Scramble:R' U' F D2 F2 D' U' B2 R2 U' B2 U R' B2 L' B' U F' U' F' L R2 U R' U' F

D' F U2 L' D' // 222(5/5)
F' U' // EO(2/7)
F' R F' R' // block(4/11)
NISS:
R' F2 B' R F' R' B R' U2 // L3C(9/20)

Skeleton: D' F U2 * L' D' F' U' F' R F' R' U2 R B' R F R' B F2 R
* U R' U' L' U R U' L (8-3/28-3)





Spoiler: 24moves, 19L3C



Scramble:R' U' F D2 B2 L2 B U2 D2 B F D' L2 F' U R B2 U D' B2 D' U R' U' F

L2 * D2 B' L F U' // 222(6/6)
U' B U2 R' U' // pusedo 223+blocks(5-1/11-1)
D R' D2 B R2 // T-TEC(5/15)
D R' D' R // L3C(4/19)

* L U' L' D2 L U L' D2 (8-3/27-3)





Robert Marik said:


> Nice. How did you find B2 U B' U B U2 B' U B' ? Is it an alg which you remember? Or is it just reordering edges using B-U moves? In the second case, did you know before the execution of this alg which corners remain intact?


It just is a sune case, and ues it with set up.
B (B U B' U B U2 B' U) B'


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## Bubtore (Mar 5, 2018)

If you do B at that point of the skeleton you will have all unsolved pieces on the same layer, and both edges are oriented. This means that it is a ZBLL. So I first set this up to get that ZBLL, but I didn't know it (now I do ). Instead, I saw that doing a sune using B U moves will lead to 3 corners, and cancels 3 moves on top of that.

So actually you have to look at the insertion like mazh described it


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## mazh (Mar 5, 2018)

Bubtore said:


> If you do B at that point of the skeleton you will have all unsolved pieces on the same layer, and both edges are oriented. This means that it is a ZBLL. So I first set this up to get that ZBLL, but I didn't know it (now I do ). Instead, I saw that doing a sune using B U moves will lead to 3 corners, and cancels 3 moves on top of that.
> 
> So actually you have to look at the insertion like mazh described it


Do you often do the skeleton with parity, and then insert sune? I seldom do this kind of skeletons, so I don't konw how much it worth in competition. Do you have some suggestion about this? Such as, if it is easy to insert sune quickly? And how many moves of the AB2E4C skeleton is worth to insert?


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## 1001010101001 (Mar 6, 2018)

What am I doing wrong here? I suck at F2L-1 + EO:
R' U' F R2 U2 B' R2 U2 F2 U2 B' F2 U2 R2 U F' R' D U B' D2 R2 B' L R' U' F

Solve:
D U' F2 D L D2 L2 R' U B2 D L2 U2 L U2 L' D' B' R B D L U B U' B2 L2 B R B' L B R' L2 F L2 R2 B2 L2 R2 F L2 R2 B L

Edit: I screwed my H-perm
I always get 40-50 moves using Heise, which is what I get with Roux HTM as well.


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## theos (Mar 6, 2018)

1001010101001 said:


> What am I doing wrong here? I suck at F2L-1 + EO:
> R' U' F R2 U2 B' R2 U2 F2 U2 B' F2 U2 R2 U F' R' D U B' D2 R2 B' L R' U' F
> 
> Solve:
> ...



You can use insertions instead of last layer algs to get a better move count most of the time.
Scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 B' R2 U2 F2 U2 B' F2 U2 R2 U F' R' D U B' D2 R2 B' L R' U' F
Skeleton (from your solution): D U' F2 D L D2 L2 R' U B2 D L2 U2 L U2 * L' D' B' R B D L U B U' B2 // 26 moves to AB4C
Insertions (from IF)...
Insert at *: D' R D L' D' R' @ D L // 4/30 (4 moves cancelled)
Insert at @: R D' R' U' R D R' U // 5/35 (3 moves cancelled)
Solution: D U' F2 D L D2 L2 R' U B2 D L2 U2 L U2 D' R D L' D2 R' U' R D R' U B' R B D L U B U' B2 (35 moves)

As for the method, I'm not sure how much Heise is used for FMC. I'd recommend going for a general block-building approach which is more flexible in block-building options and where you can do EO earlier in the solution if it gives a shorter skeleton.


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## Bubtore (Mar 10, 2018)

mazh said:


> Do you often do the skeleton with parity, and then insert sune? I seldom do this kind of skeletons, so I don't konw how much it worth in competition. Do you have some suggestion about this? Such as, if it is easy to insert sune quickly? And how many moves of the AB2E4C skeleton is worth to insert?


In my opinion there is not really a rule for it, I just go by feeling, and sometimes it works out nicely.


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## porkynator (Mar 10, 2018)

My solutions for FMC Europe.

Scramble #1: R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F
Solution: B2 R B' L' B R' B' R U' D2 R B L2 B2 R F' R' F' R F R' B2 D2 L (26)


Spoiler



B + R L' U' //EO (4/4)
D2 R B //2x2x2 (3/7)
L2 * D2 (D2) //2x2x3 (3/10)
L F' //All but 4 edges and 4 corners (2/12)

* = B2 R F' R' . F' . R F R' B2 //All but 3 corners (9/21)
+ = B R B' L' B R' B' L //3c (5/26)

This was a nice one. I didn't see any way to conjugate the 8 unsolved pieces such that I would solve everything with an insertion like *, and leaving 3 corners is the next best thing.



Scramble #2: R' U' F D' B2 U B2 D2 L2 D B2 L D2 L2 B' L' D2 R D' B2 F L2 U' R' U' F
Solution: R L' D2 F2 B R2 F B L B' L2 D' B U' B' U R U D F D' R' D F' D' U' R' D2 L2 B' (30)


Spoiler



R L' F' //Pseudo 2x2x2 (3/3)
(B L2 D' L2) //One more square (4/7)
(B L' B2) //2x2x3 (3/10)
F D2 F2 B R2 F B' //All but 3 edges and 4 corners (4/14)

Skeleton: R L' D2 F2 B R2 F B L B' L2 * D L2 B'

Insert at *: D' # D

Reverse NISS at #, so we get:

Premoves D2 L2 B'

R L' D2 F2 B R2 F B L B' L2 D' //F2L in 15

Now it seems like it is an easy case, but even Guus didn't know it. One could go for All but 3 edges in 23 (if I am not wrong), and maybe I should have tried that. Instead I did:

B U' B' U //All but 4 pairs (4/19)
R U D F D' . R' . D F' D' U' R' //Finish (11/30)

I was short on time and a bit tired, so maybe there is a better way to finish.
Very advanced techniques for a not-so-good solve.



Scramble #3: R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F
Solution: F' L R2 F' L' U2 L U L' U L R' F' L2 F R D2 F2 U' B' U F2 U' B U' F D (27)


Spoiler



F' L //EO (2/2)
R2 F' //Square (2/4)
(D' F' D2) //2x2x2 + pair (3/7)
(U2 F' L2 F) //2x2x3 (4/11)
(L' U' L U' L' U2 L) //Sune - All but 4 corners (7/18)

Skeleton:
F' L R2 F' L' U2 L U L' U L F' + L2 F D2 * U2 F D
+ = F R' F' L2 F R F' L2 //3c (2/20)
* = F2 U'B' U F2 U' B U //3c (7/27)

For some reason I wasn't concentrated during this attempt. I kept misscrambling and I lost a lot of time because of this. I think I have found the skeleton at 49 minutes. Then a couple of misscrambles and I went through the scramble aiming at something that cancelled a lot. Luckily, I found the first insertion that cancelled 6. 4:30 minutes left. I run through the scramble again, find something that cancels 1, better than nothing. Less than 3 minutes left. I copy the solution, but it takes long. 1:30 left. Try the solution, doesn't work. Check for mistakes, correct one. 1 minute left. Try again the solution, it works, done with 30 seconds left. I didn't even count the moves, I feel lucky that my solution worked.



In the end I am satisfied of my results, even though I feel like I could have done better. This is my best result at an FMC Europe competition. Maybe I should practice for Euros...


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## Shymon (Mar 10, 2018)

R' U' F U2 B' R2 D2 F L2 F' U2 L2 D F2 L F' D2 R U F' R B' F' R' U' F
Tried multiple EOs, blocks, basically anything I could think of, yet nothing gave me a satisfactory skeleton. Could anyone help?


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## Hssandwich (Mar 10, 2018)

FMC Europe solutions:

R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F



Spoiler



R D2 U' R B //2x2x2
(L D') D //2x2x3
(F L2) L2 //F2L-1
L' F L F2 //14 to 3c3e

R D2 U' @ & R B D L F L F2 L2 F' D L'
@ D R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 (2 cancel after the next insertion)
& F' R B2 R' F R B2 R' (3 cancel)

Solution: R D' U' R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F R B2 R' F R B' D L F L F2 L2 F' D L' (25)



R' U' F D' B2 U B2 D2 L2 D B2 L D2 L2 B' L' D2 R D' B2 F L2 U' R' U' F


Spoiler



(D') B' R' U //EO
B2 (B) //square
U2 R' //two squares!
(U2 R2 B2) //F2L-1
D L' D' L //15 to 3c3e

B' R' U B2 U2 R' & D L' D' L @ B2 R2 U2 B' D
@ R' B' D' B D R (leaves 3c)
& L' D R D' L D R' D' (2 cancel)


B' R' U B2 U2 R' L' D R D' L D R' L' D' L R' B' D' B D R B2 R2 U2 B' D (27)



R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(D F) //square
D2 F2 L //2x2x2
R D2 R2 //pseudo 2x2x3
D2 B2 (B R) //F2L-1
B' D2 B //F2L
L' D' F' D F L D //21 to 3c

Skeleton: D2 F2 L R D2 R2 D2 B D2 @ B L' D' F' D F L D R' B' F' D'
@ D' B' U' B D B' U B (2 cancel)

D2 F2 L R D2 R2 D2 B D B' U' B D B' U B2 L' D' F' D F L D R' B' F' D' (27)



25, 27, 27 = 26.33 mean, 2nd place


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## 1001010101001 (Mar 10, 2018)

When I do the pairs in Heise sometimes I get a parity, 2 edges swapped. How can i fix this optimally


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## T1_M0 (Mar 11, 2018)

My last solution from FMC Europe, messed up the 2 others. Basically my 2x2x2 continuation just formed a huge amount of pairs.

Scramble R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F

(D F) // sq // 2/2
D2 F2 L // 2x2x2 // 3/5
R D2 R2 // p.2x2x3 // 3/8
D2 B D2 * B // p.F2L // 4/12
(B R) // premoves (did these for a f2l-1 originally only after doing these I noticed the f2l into 6-move oll into 3c) // 2/14
L' D' F' D F L D // OLL // 7/21

*[D', B' U' B] // 6/27


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## Hssandwich (Mar 11, 2018)

T1_M0 said:


> My last solution from FMC Europe, messed up the 2 others. Basically my 2x2x2 continuation just formed a huge amount of pairs.
> 
> Scramble R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F
> 
> ...


Same solution


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## T1_M0 (Mar 11, 2018)

Hssandwich said:


> Same solution


Whoa, it was, didn't even read yours. I was doing one-handed btw.


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## Bubtore (Mar 11, 2018)

Hssandwich said:


> FMC Europe solutions:
> 
> R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F
> 
> ...


I've found this insertion with your skeleton on the first attempt :
S // R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F

Skel // R D2 U' R B D L F L F2 L2 F' * D L'

* F2 U' F U L U' F' U F L' F

Solution // R D2 U' R B D L F L F2 L2 F U' F U L U' F' U F L' F D L' - 24 Moves

it's just a pseudo F2L and when doing OLL, the PLL skips.

edit : this also works (at the same place as the other insertion)
* F' U L U' L F R F' L2 F R'
That's a FRURUF + commutator combination and also gives 24.


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## Hssandwich (Mar 11, 2018)

Bubtore said:


> I've found this insertion with your skeleton on the first attempt :
> S // R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F
> 
> Skel // R D2 U' R B D L F L F2 L2 F' * D L'
> ...


Insertion finder showed me the same thing after the attempt... Not sure how I managed to miss it even though I checked reverse NISS


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 12, 2018)

Has anybody heard about FMC Americas 2018?


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## theos (Mar 12, 2018)

Shymon said:


> R' U' F U2 B' R2 D2 F L2 F' U2 L2 D F2 L F' D2 R U F' R B' F' R' U' F
> Tried multiple EOs, blocks, basically anything I could think of, yet nothing gave me a satisfactory skeleton. Could anyone help?



Spent way too much of my Sunday on this one 
Got a lot of long skeletons or mediocre 3-cycle skeletons. This was something like my 5th or 6th starting 2x2x2 block that I tried but ended up getting a really nice solution. Wish I could find these within an hour for competitions but I rarely have time to investigate more than 1 or 2 starting blocks.

Scramble: R' U' F U2 B' R2 D2 F L2 F' U2 L2 D F2 L F' D2 R U F' R B' F' R' U' F
B' L R2 U' L' U2 (F') // 2x2x2 block (+1 pair that I didn't end up using) [7/7]
(B D' B L' D2 L') // 2x2x3 block (with only 2 edges misoriented) [6/13]
R D' R' // EO (+1 pair) [3/16]
B2 D B D2 // F2L-1 (+3 pairs) [4/20]
B D' B2 D // F2L (which links up all the pairs) [4/24]
B2 // AUF (LL skip) [1/25]
Solution: B' L R2 U' L' U2 R D' R' B2 D B D2 B D' B2 D B2 L D2 L B' D B' F (25 moves)


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## Bubtore (Mar 12, 2018)

Desafio de Verão 2018
Scramble 1 // R' U' F U2 B2 L' B2 L2 F2 U2 B2 R' D2 B' R' B R B' U B' R2 U R' U' F

(R2 F) // Pairs
U2 R2 B U' B2 L2 // 222
R' B2 L U' R // Tripod
L2 B L B' // L3C

Skel // U2 R2 B U' B2 L2 R' B2 L + U' R L2 B L B' F' R2
+ L' B' R' B L B' R B

Solution // U2 R2 B U' B2 L2 R' B R' B L B' R B U' R L2 B L B' F' R2 - 22 Moves

Desafio de Verão 2018 Scramble 2 // R' U' F U' R2 U' B2 D' F2 U R F L2 B U2 L' D2 R2 F2 R2 U2 R' U' F

B L F2 D' // 222
(R F' U2 F) // EO
(R U2 R U' F2) // 223
(R' U R U2 R U R U) // 3C

Skel // B L F2 D' U' R' U' R' U2 R' U' R F2 U R' * U2 R' F' U2 F R'
* R U' L' U R' U' L U

Solution // B L F2 D' U' R' U' R' U2 R' U' R F2 L' U R' U' L U' R' F' U2 F R' - 24 Moves


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## BQ (Mar 13, 2018)

My solutions for FMC Europe 2018

1. Scramble: R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F
Solution: R2 U' F R2 F R' B R F' R' F' U' B' F' R2 U L2 U F' D' F U' D (23f)


Spoiler



R2 U' F R * //eo
B F' U' B' F' R2 U L2 //223 + some edges
U F' D' F U' D //l3c
*: R F R' B R F' R' B'



2. Scramble: R' U' F D' B2 U B2 D2 L2 D B2 L D2 L2 B' L' D2 R D' B2 F L2 U' R' U' F 
Solution: R L' F' R2 D2 B' R F D' B' D F' D' R D R B' D' L F' L2 F R2 F' L2 F B （27f)


Spoiler



R L' F' //pseudo 222
NISS
B' # L' //222+blocks
NISS
R2 D2 B' * R D' B' R D R B' D' R2 //L5C
*: F D' B' D F' D' B D
#: F' L2 F R2 F' L2 F R2



3. Scramble: R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F
Solution: R F' L2 F R' F' L' D' B D F D B' D' F' D' B2 D R2 D B' D' F' D B D F D


Spoiler



F' L //eo
NISS
D' F' D2 F //222
R2 D' B2 D2 B D2 B' D //L6C
skeleton: # F' L D' B D2 * B' D2 B2 D R2 @ F' D2 F D
*: D' F D B' D' F' D B
#: R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F
@: D B' D' F' D B D' F



Here's a 21 moves solution for 3rd scramble from Bo Huang


Spoiler



NISS
D F R
NISS
D2 F2 L R D2 R2 L B L2 D2 L B D' R D' R' B' D


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## porkynator (Mar 13, 2018)

BQ said:


> 1. Scramble: R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F
> Solution: R2 U' F R2 F R' B R F' R' F' U' B' F' R2 U L2 U F' D' F U' D (23f)
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice solution for the first scramble! I think the smart trick here was the first F' on the second line that I put in bold. It allows to align the BR edge (blue-red) to its center while matching the square in DFL (orange-white-blue).


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## asacuber (Mar 14, 2018)

can anyone give me an optimal solution for a 3cycle w/ setup:

R2 U F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D R2 B D' F2 D B' R2 U'


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## guysensei1 (Mar 14, 2018)

asacuber said:


> can anyone give me an optimal solution for a 3cycle w/ setup:
> 
> R2 U F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D R2 B D' F2 D B' R2 U'


Not the same angle, but

U2 B2 D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B U2


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## theos (Mar 14, 2018)

asacuber said:


> can anyone give me an optimal solution for a 3cycle w/ setup:
> 
> R2 U F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D R2 B D' F2 D B' R2 U'



Source for all possible 3-cycles gives us this algorithm for this case: R B R2 B L' B' R2 B L B2 R'
For your case's orientation this transposes to: L D L2 D R' D' L2 D R D2 L' (11 moves)
This is [L D: [L2, D R' D']]


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 15, 2018)

Because I don't know how to make Comms for FMC. Nor do I know insertions.(Will learn here in a few days over break) I would like you to help me with getting a good skeleton. I would like to work on getting around 35 for whole solve. For now I want to get okay with just use normal scramble (until break then Ill learn NISS).


Scramble 1 -R' U' F L2 U' L2 B2 U R2 F2 U' R2 U' R2 F' U L' B R B2 R D2 R' U R' U' F



Spoiler



B' D2 R' F U F- X Cross (6/6) (I was building 2x2x2 block and cross pieces fell in)
U R' U' R' B' R' B- F2L-2 (7/13)
R' D2 F D2 F'- F2L-1 (5/18)
R B R' B'- F2L - 1 Corner (4/22)
R2- (1/23)Left you with L3C and 2 edges to swap


It that pretty good?

Edit- B R' B R2 B' R2 F' R B R' F B2 (12f*) is optimal making it a 35!!! However I don't think a human could get the optimal could they???



Scramble 2- R' U' F B R' F' L B U' D2 L' B' L2 D2 L2 U B2 U' R2 B2 U D L2 R' U' F



Spoiler



R' F' R' D' R B' D' F' D' -2X2X2 (9/9)
U B' U' L U L' U' F U' F' U' B' U B2- Pair inserting (14/25)
U2 B' F' B L F B' (7/32) F2L
R' F R B' R' F' R B (8/40) OLL
Optimal U perm is 9 more moves. Or a 49

I know doing LL is a bad idea but this one wasn't bad. Because of this, it doesn't need to be critiqued as I know I probably shouldn't have done LL.



Scramble 3-R' U' F D2 F2 R2 F2 U' R2 U' L2 U B2 L2 F D2 L U F' R2 B D' R' D' R' U' F


Spoiler



F2 L' F U R' U2-2X2X2 (6/6)
D B' L' B-2X2X3 (4/10)
L2 F L' F D' L' D -F2L-1 (7/17)

Anything good after this???


Also what is a good number of moves for:

EO at start
2x2x2
2x2x3
F2L-1
L3C


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## Robert Marik (Mar 18, 2018)

Hssandwich said:


> FMC Europe solutions:
> 
> 
> R' U' F D' B2 U B2 D2 L2 D B2 L D2 L2 B' L' D2 R D' B2 F L2 U' R' U' F
> ...



This is really amazing solution. I was surprised that you switch fom inverse even inside EO or during square in the second step. 

Do you look for these moves on the cube with inverse scramble or do you recognise these one-movers (D’ on the first line and B on the second line) on the reguar scramble? 

In the first case, how often do you check the inverse? After each move? If the second case is true, do you have some explanation for the first move - D’?

Thank you.



Duncan Bannon said:


> Because I don't know how to make Comms for FMC. Nor do I know insertions.(Will learn here in a few days over break) I would like you to help me with getting a good skeleton. I would like to work on getting around 35 for whole solve. For now I want to get okay with just use normal scramble (until break then Ill learn NISS).
> 
> 
> Scramble 1 -R' U' F L2 U' L2 B2 U R2 F2 U' R2 U' R2 F' U L' B R B2 R D2 R' U R' U' F
> ...


Estimates for move count can be found in the famous FMC tutorial by Sebasriano Tronto (porkynator) on page 19. This source does not provide estimate for EO, however.


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## G2013 (Mar 18, 2018)

Just rolled my ao5 PB!
Scramble: R' U' F D2 U2 F U2 B R2 B' F' L2 D2 F D' L' U R' U R2 F R' U' R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R U R F' R2 U' R U' L D F' D2 L2 F B R2 B' U2 F' U2 D2 F' U R



Spoiler



B2 U F2 // 1x2x3
D' U' L' D L' U2 //2x2x3 (9 moves)
(D' F' R2 F ) //EO
D' R2 D2 R2 D' //L3C L3E ske=18
Skeleton: B2 * U F2 @ D' U' L' D L' U2 D' R2 D2 R2 D' F' R2 F D = 18+8-2+6-3 = 27
Insertion 1:
* = (R' U L U' R U L' U')
@ = (R2 U' D B2 D' U)

Final solution: B2 R' U L U' R U L' F2 R2 U' D B2 D2 L' D L' U2 D' R2 D2 R2 D' F' R2 F D (27 HTM)



Giving PB ao5! (25, 26, 27, 30, 27) = 26.66 noiceice

Any tips are welcome, as always


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## cubeshepherd (Mar 19, 2018)

I was doing a FMC solve but I am confused how to write out the final solution. 
Premoves: L2 F' L2 R D R' L2
The scramble is: R' U' F D R2 B U2 R' F2 R2 U' R' L2 D' B2 L2 U R2 L2 B2 D R2 U' R' U' F

I started by doing (L2 R D' R' L2 F L2) 2x2x2 block
I then reversed that (L2 F' L2 R D R' L2) and did the inverse scramble.
Once I did that I did the rest of the solution with the inverse scramble, and my question is: Do I count the 7 move 2x2x2 block in the solution or not.
After the 2x2x2 block and inverse scramble is complete this is the rest of the solution: 
D' R' F' D R2 D R D2 L D L'//F2l-1
D' F D F' D' F D// Last F2L slot
L D L' D' F' Fw L D L' D' Fw'//OLL
F2 L2 F R F' L2 F R' F//PLL 38 Moves)
For some reason I am really confused on how to write out the solution and I am sorry for not understanding it, but any and all help is very much appreciated.


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## asacuber (Mar 19, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> I was doing a FMC solve but I am confused how to write out the final solution.
> The scramble is: R' U' F D R2 B U2 R' F2 R2 U' R' L2 D' B2 L2 U R2 L2 B2 D R2 U' R' U' F
> 
> I started by doing (L2 R D' R' L2 F L2) 2x2x2 block
> ...



Your solution will be:
(2x2x2 block on normal)(Invert whatever you did on the inverse scramble)
Watch Jay's video on NISS, it helped me a lot.


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## theos (Mar 19, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> I was doing a FMC solve but I am confused how to write out the final solution.
> Premoves: L2 F' L2 R D R' L2
> The scramble is: R' U' F D R2 B U2 R' F2 R2 U' R' L2 D' B2 L2 U R2 L2 B2 D R2 U' R' U' F
> 
> ...



To help piece things together at the end it's useful to write out moves on the inverse scramble in brackets (and moves on the normal scramble without brackets). This is a simple case, but if you start switching between the normal and inverse scramble frequently in a solve then it will help to keep things straight.

Scramble: R' U' F D R2 B U2 R' F2 R2 U' R' L2 D' B2 L2 U R2 L2 B2 D R2 U' R' U' F
L2 R D' R' L2 F L2 // 2x2x2
(D' R' F' D R2 D R D2 L D L') // F2L-1
(D' F D F' D' F D) // F2L
(L D L' D' F' Fw L D L' D' Fw') // OLL
(F2 L2 F R F' L2 F R' F) // PLL

At any point while solving if you want to see how things look on the inverse scramble, do:

inverse of all non-bracketed moves
inverse scramble
all bracketed moves
To see how things look on the normal scramble, do:

inverse of all bracketed moves
normal scramble
all non-bracketed moves
Now to get to your question, when you want to write your final solution (or skeleton if you do insertions), do:

all non-bracketed moves
inverse of all bracketed moves
So in your case this solution will be:
L2 R D' R' L2 F L2 ... F' R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F2 ... Fw D L D' L' Fw' F D L D' L' ... D' F' D F D' F' D ... L D' L' D2 R' D' R2 D' F R D
(You'd leave out the ellipses in your written solution; they're just there to show the different steps of your solution.)

More detailed example of a solution to this scramble with multiple sections on the normal and inverse scrambles:


Spoiler: 28 moves



Scramble: R' U' F D R2 B U2 R' F2 R2 U' R' L2 D' B2 L2 U R2 L2 B2 D R2 U' R' U' F
(B D B' D' B2 R) // pseudo-2x2x2
R' // 2x2x2
(U B2 U) // pseudo-2x2x3
U // 2x2x3
D' B' D // edge orientation
L B' L' B2 L' // F2L-1
(B2 L' B' L) // build last F2L pair on last layer
B' L' B2 L // F2L
B' // LL skip
Assemble the solution: R' ... U ... D' B' D ... L B' L' B2 L' ... B' L' B2 L ... B' ... L' B L B2 ... U' B2 U' ... R' B2 D B D' B'
Final solution: R' U D' B' D L B' L' B2 L' B' L' B2 L B' L' B L B2 U' B2 U' R' B2 D B D' B' (28 moves)


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## Cale S (Mar 20, 2018)

pretty cool solution

R' U' F D2 B D2 U2 B D2 B' F R2 D' B' D B2 F' U' R U2 R' U2 R' U' F

B U B2 D // 222
F U' F' // square
R2 F' (R) // F2L - 1
F U F' // 11 to 3c5e

^ B U B2 @ D F U' F' R2 U F' R'
^ = R' U R % U' // to 3e3c
@ = U2 L R' F2 R L' // to 3c
% = [R' F' R, B]

Solution: R' U F' R B R' F R B' U' B U B2 U2 L R' F2 R L' D F U' F' R2 U F' R'

27 moves

Insertion finder found a 25 by nesting the edge comm in the corner comm


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## Hssandwich (Mar 20, 2018)

Robert Marik said:


> This is really amazing solution. I was surprised that you switch fom inverse even inside EO or during square in the second step.
> 
> Do you look for these moves on the cube with inverse scramble or do you recognise these one-movers (D’ on the first line and B on the second line) on the reguar scramble?
> 
> ...


Thanks 
I found the first (D') when looking on the inverse scramble for EO starts. I saw that it reduced the EO from that orientation down to 4 bad edges, so I could hopefully solve EO with a few moves after switching.
I knew that B2 made a pseudo square after EO, since it lined up a 2x1x1 with the correct centre with a solved E-layer edge, so after switching, there would be a one move square.
I always check the inverse at the end of each step, or sometimes halfway through on rare occasions. Here though, I knew that after B2, (B) would make the square, so I knew to switch to solve that.
Hope this helps


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 20, 2018)

Normally before posting a question I do some research and if I don't get a relatively quick answer Ill post here. It seems like I've been working on Commutators and Conjugates for forever  Here are my questions.

1-Difference between Commutator and Conjugate? ( I get the A B A' B' vs A B A', just not in a solve part)

2- To solve a twisted corner in say ab4c, do I just do a 3 cycle that solves 1 piece then do ab3c case?

3- I seem to get most ab3c cases, although I'm still figuring out some, I don't seem to be able to solve ab4c or ab5c. Is there a general tip to help know how to solve ab4c/ab5c?

4-Sometime when doing a 3 cycle I get 2 twisted corners? How to solve the 3 cycle right? For example- Do R U' R' D R U R' D' as scramble, then when I do what I think the right cycle - L D R D' L' D R' D' It ;eaves 2 twisted corners.

Thanks a million.


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## theos (Mar 21, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> 1-Difference between Commutator and Conjugate? ( I get the A B A' B' vs A B A', just not in a solve part)



Conjugate (A B A') is for when you need to use a set-up move to apply an algorithm, e.g. solving 2C2E you might be 2 moves away (D2 L' say) from a T-perm in your skeleton. So you do D2 L' [T-perm alg] L D2.

Commutator (A B A' B') is for making an algorithm. The only pieces affected are those affected by both A and B, and their projections by A' and B'. Practically you mainly just need to know how to make the commutators for 3C and 3E cases, though maybe there's some more niche cases you'll want to learn much later.



Duncan Bannon said:


> 2- To solve a twisted corner in say ab4c, do I just do a 3 cycle that solves 1 piece then do ab3c case?



Yip. Solve 1 corner of the twisted 3-cycle and ensure the 3rd corner of your insertion is the twisted corner (otherwise you're left with 2 or 3 twisted corners).



Duncan Bannon said:


> 3- I seem to get most ab3c cases, although I'm still figuring out some, I don't seem to be able to solve ab4c or ab5c. Is there a general tip to help know how to solve ab4c/ab5c?



AB5C - 5-cycle. You need to solve 2 corners with your first insertion to leave a 3-cycle. So if corner [1] is being solved into position [2] you need to also solve [2]->[3] or [5]->[1] at the same time.
AB4C - twisted 3-cycle + twisted corner. Solve exactly 1 corner of the twisted 3-cycle to leave a 3-cycle. (The 3rd corner of the insertion is the twisted corner.)
AB4C - (twisted) 2-cycle + (twisted) 2-cycle. Solve any 1 corner to leave a 3-cycle. (The 3rd corner of the insertion is from the other 2-cycle.)
All other AB4C and AB5C cases require more than 2 insertions.



> 4-Sometime when doing a 3 cycle I get 2 twisted corners? How to solve the 3 cycle right? For example- Do R U' R' D R U R' D' as scramble, then when I do what I think the right cycle - L D R D' L' D R' D' It ;eaves 2 twisted corners.



You have to make sure you're solving 2 corners into the correct position and orientation (and then the 3rd one will be solved for free).

In your example the corners are FDL --> RDF --> FLU --> FDL. The orientation is important: the F facelet of FDL must go in the position of the R facelet of RDF which must go in the position of the F facelet of FLU.

The commutator you used here is [L, D R D']. The L move puts the FDL corner into the right position but wrong orientation.

To see a working commutator you can look for 1 move that will solve a corner (position AND orientation) and leaves a 3rd corner untouched. From your scramble a D move will solve RDF into the correct position and orientation. So our commutator is either [D, X] or [Y, D'].

But this only solves 1 corner, so we need to be careful choosing X/Y such that we also solve another corner:

For the X in [D, X] we need the inverse of the 3-move sequence that will solve FLU. X' = R U R' works, i.e. X = R U' R', so the solution is [D, R U' R'] (which is just the inverse of the scramble).
For the Y in [Y, D'] we need the 3-move sequence that will solve FDL. Y = L' U' L works. So the solution is [L' U' L, D'].


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 21, 2018)

This makes it so much clearer! Thank you ever so much.


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## cubeshepherd (Mar 22, 2018)

I was working on this scramble and I got to a few different solutions that lead to either F2L-1 or AB4C/2E. None of my solves seem to have a good move count, but I am sure that there is something that I am missing that could reduce the move count or cancel moves, but I can not seem to figure that out hence why I ask for enlightenment from the higher and better FMC solvers.

Scramble: R' U' F R2 F' R2 D2 R2 U2 D L' B U2 R2 U L2 D R2 U L2 F2 L2 R' U' F

F U' L U L2 U [2x2x2 Block] 6/6
D L' F' L' F' L F' D' L2 F' [Diagonal F2L pairs] 10/16

And from there I came across two different solutions, with the first being a better move count, and seemingly better all around.

First Solution: R' D' R D F' R F R' [F2L-1] 8/24
B D' B' D' B D' B' D L' D L D B D B' L' D L [OLL] AB4C and 2E 17/41

Second Solution: B D' B' F L' D L D' F' [Orange and Green 2x2x3 Block] 9/25
R B' R2 B' R' B' R' U R U' R' B U' B' U [F2L] 15/40
D' R' D R' D' R2 D [OLL] 7/47
D' R2 D R2 D' F D R D' R' D' F' D2 R2 [PLL] 14/61 Really bad solution, but I wanted to see what I missed.

Thank you all very much in advance, for you time and to help train me in the ways of the FMC. : )


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## theos (Mar 22, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> I was working on this scramble and I got to a few different solutions that lead to either F2L-1 or AB4C/2E. None of my solves seem to have a good move count, but I am sure that there is something that I am missing that could reduce the move count or cancel moves, but I can not seem to figure that out hence why I ask for enlightenment from the higher and better FMC solvers.
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F R2 F' R2 D2 R2 U2 D L' B U2 R2 U L2 D R2 U L2 F2 L2 R' U' F
> 
> ...



Almost any solution with OLL and PLL is going to look bad in comparison to a solution using insertions to solve the last pieces.

The simplest reasonable continuation that I spotted from your F2L-2:
Scramble: R' U' F R2 F' R2 D2 R2 U2 D L' B U2 R2 U L2 D R2 U L2 F2 L2 R' U' F
F U' L U L2 U // 2x2x2 given [6/6]
D L' F' L' F' L F' D' L2 F' // F2L-2 given [10/16]
R' D2 R F D2 F' // F2L-1 [6/22]
B D B' D L' D' L // AB5C [7/29]
Optimal insertions results in 37 moves.

Still not great. My preference is to go for a 2x2x3 block after 2x2x2:
F U' L U L2 U // 2x2x2 given [6/6]
F2 D' F2 D L' D' L2 // 2x2x3 [7/13] - just the first 2x2x3 block I spotted
R' D2 R2 F' R' // Orient edges [5/18]
D F D' // F2L-1 [3/21]
D' F' D F' // AB5C [3/24]
And optimal insertions results in 33 moves.

I'm sure much better is possible, but as long as you can do corner cycle insertions, sub-40 move solutions are pretty easy to come by.


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## asacuber (Mar 23, 2018)

this scramble looks pretty good but i couldnt expand on my nice 2x2x2s and 2x2x3s and panicked and got a crappy 46(i had found a 43 or 44 before on one of the 2x2x3s but didnt write it down) EO looks quite nice for this scramble, but I couldn't find anything.

Generated By csTimer on 2018-3-24
single: 46.00

Time List:
1. 46.00 R' U' F D2 L' B2 U2 R' B2 R U2 R B2 L2 F' L' F D' L' D U' L F2 R' U' F

I found:

R' F B R B R2 B L' B' U' L2 U 

And

F B R B R2
Switch
D' L' D B' R D2 R'


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 27, 2018)

R' U' F U L2 B2 U' B2 U2 F2 L2 U' L2 D' R' U R' D2 B' D L B2 U2 L2 R' U' F

Inverse-F' U R L2 U2 B2 L' D' B D2 R U' R D L2 U L2 F2 U2 B2 U B2 L2 U' F U R
U2 L' F2 D R2-2X2X2 5/5
U F' L U-2X2X3 5/9
F2 L2 D' L D U L U'-F2L 8/17
F U L U' L' F'-EO 6/23
D L D' L D L2 D'- EP 7/30


IF said
U2 L' F2 D R2 U F' L U F2 L2 D' L D U L [@1] U' F U L U' L' F' D L D' L D L2 D' L2
Insert at @1: L' F' L B2 L' F L B2
Fewest moves: 37. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: U2 L' F2 D R2 U F' L U F2 L2 D' L D U F' L B2 L' F L B2 U' F U L U' L' F' D L D' L D L2 D' L2

I cant do inserstions but Ill work on them.

Really happy with 37 honestly. I know I 1/2 cheated though. Any help is appreciated.


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## theos (Mar 28, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> R' U' F U L2 B2 U' B2 U2 F2 L2 U' L2 D' R' U R' D2 B' D L B2 U2 L2 R' U' F
> 
> Inverse-F' U R L2 U2 B2 L' D' B D2 R U' R D L2 U L2 F2 U2 B2 U B2 L2 U' F U R
> U2 L' F2 D R2-2X2X2 5/5
> ...



Starting from your 2x2x3, I got a decent continuation by switching to the inverse scramble.

Scramble: R' U' F U L2 B2 U' B2 U2 F2 L2 U' L2 D' R' U R' D2 B' D L B2 U2 L2 R' U' F
U2 L' F2 D R2 // 2x2x2 given [5/5]
U F' L U // 2x2x3 given [4/9]
(L2 D' L2 D L') // Switch to inverse, F2L-1 and this also orients our edges [5/14]
L F L' F2 L F' L' F // Switch back to normal, solve edges leaving AB4C [8/22]
Insertions from IF...
Skeleton: U2 L' F2 * D R2 U F' L U L F L' F2 @ L F' L' F L D' L2 D L2
Inset at *: L D R2 D' L' D R2 D' [4/26]
Insert at @: F R F' L F R' F' L' [4/30]
Solution: U2 L' F2 L D R2 D' L' D U F' L U L F L' F' R F' L F R' F2 L' F L D' L2 D L2 (30 moves)


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 28, 2018)

When I switch to inverse (at 2x2x3) Its seems I only get 2x2x2 with extra pair. Missing the White/Red edge. Am I doing something wrong when using NISS.


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## theos (Mar 28, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> When I switch to inverse (at 2x2x3) Its seems I only get 2x2x2 with extra pair. Missing the White/Red edge. Am I doing something wrong when using NISS.



When you switch from normal to inverse (and vice-versa) the blocks already built should remain. That implies a mistake somewhere. Looks like a problem with the inverse you've written: it should end *F' U R *not *F U R*. (My solution was based on the correct inverse as validated by IF.)


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 28, 2018)

Okay! Gotcha! I thought I was doing the steps right. With Inverse moves in solution then inverse. Thanks. Ill start to add NISS to my solves. I get most 3 cycles except when no corner is orientated. The next solve I do will be just fun practice. Ill try to use Pseudo blocks if there is a good case. Ill also try to do EO at F2L-1 or after 2x2x3.


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 29, 2018)

R' U' F D2 B F2 R2 B2 U2 B U2 F2 L2 U L' U F2 D L2 U2 B2 L' B' D2 R' U' F

Inverse- F' U R D2 B L B2 U2 L2 D' F2 U' L U' L2 F2 U2 B' U2 B2 R2 F2 B' D2 F' U R

R F' D' L B'-2X2X2 5/5
(R2 U2 R' U R) 2X2X3 5/10
(F U2 F2) F2L-1 3/10
(U2 R' F R F' U' R' F R F') F2L 10/20
( F U F' U F U2 F') EP/AB3C 7/27

I couldn't get IF to work, must have entered it in wrong. But probably end up with 32 ish


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## theos (Mar 29, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> R' U' F D2 B F2 R2 B2 U2 B U2 F2 L2 U L' U F2 D L2 U2 B2 L' B' D2 R' U' F
> 
> Inverse- F' U R D2 B L B2 U2 L2 D' F2 U' L U' L2 F2 U2 B' U2 B2 R2 F2 B' D2 F' U R
> 
> ...



You've done the Sune that happens to orient all the corners, but it isn't actually permuting the edges into their correct (relative) positions. A Sune will permute the edges: the standard Sune permutes UB->UL->UR->UB, so you can look to see if there's an orientation that will benefit from that. As it turns out the standard Sune in the standard orientation is what we need here: R U R' U R U2 R'. All the edges end up positioned correctly relative to one another and as a bonus one corner is correct. We just need a U2 to AUF.

Scramble: R' U' F D2 B F2 R2 B2 U2 B U2 F2 L2 U L' U F2 D L2 U2 B2 L' B' D2 R' U' F
R F' D' L B' // 2X2X2 given [5/5]
(R2 U2 R' U R) // 2X2X3 given [5/10]
(F U2 F2) // F2L-1 given [3/13] (you left these moves out of your count)
(U2 R' F R F' U' R' F R F') // F2L given [10/23]
(R U R' U R U2 R' U2) // Solve edges to AB3C [8/31]
Skeleton: R F' D' L B' U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' F * R' F' R U F R' F' R U2 F2 U2 F' R' U' R U2 R2
Insert corners at *: F L2 F' R' F L2 F' R [4/35] (source: IF)
Solution: R F' D' L B' U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' F2 L2 F' R' F L2 F2 R U F R' F' R U2 F2 U2 F' R' U' R U2 R2 (35 moves)


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 29, 2018)

I meant for the F U F' U F U2 F' sune case to be an antisune. F U2 etc. But I realize now that normal solves corner and other doesn't, just a mistake in writing it. I did find that case (that had corner solved) Just entered it wrong while typing. Thanks.


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## asacuber (Mar 30, 2018)

what even

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/221/

thoughts????


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## porkynator (Mar 30, 2018)

asacuber said:


> what even
> 
> https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/221/
> 
> thoughts????



Someone tried to be funny and submitted a Cube Explorer solution using the name of the guy who got world record with a solve that looks like a Cube Explorer solution.


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## asacuber (Mar 30, 2018)

porkynator said:


> Someone tried to be funny and submitted a Cube Explorer solution using the name of the guy who got world record with a solve that looks like a Cube Explorer solution.



yeah
their breakdown didn't even make complete sense to me


Also just got a 36 move solution for the weekly FMC, my 2nd(i think) time using insertions. IF says it could've been 32 but whatever, still happy.


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## cubeshepherd (Mar 31, 2018)

Quick question: When you scramble the cube with either the regular or inverse scramble, and you end up doing the reverse of the last move in the scramble, in your solution, can you cancel that move in your final solution move count? 

To make it a bit more clearer, lets say that the last move in the scramble is a B2, and for your first move in the solution it is a B2, do you still count that as 1 move or can that be washed out from your solution? 

If I had to take a guess I would say that it is still 1 move, but I am not certain on that. Thank you very much in advance for your help


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## Duncan Bannon (Mar 31, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> Quick question: When you scramble the cube with either the regular or inverse scramble, and you end up doing the reverse of the last move in the scramble, in your solution, can you cancel that move in your final solution move count?
> 
> To make it a bit more clearer, lets say that the last move in the scramble is a B2, and for your first move in the solution it is a B2, do you still count that as 1 move or can that be washed out from your solution?
> 
> If I had to take a guess I would say that it is still 1 move, but I am not certain on that. Thank you very much in advance for your help


I'm 99.999% sure it still counts.


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## theos (Mar 31, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> Quick question: When you scramble the cube with either the regular or inverse scramble, and you end up doing the reverse of the last move in the scramble, in your solution, can you cancel that move in your final solution move count?
> 
> To make it a bit more clearer, lets say that the last move in the scramble is a B2, and for your first move in the solution it is a B2, do you still count that as 1 move or can that be washed out from your solution?
> 
> If I had to take a guess I would say that it is still 1 move, but I am not certain on that. Thank you very much in advance for your help



Not only does it definitely count towards the move count, but if you have a few moves at the start of your solution that are the inverse of the end of the scramble, it's likely to be very suspicious for anyone judging the solution.

What does work though is cancelling moves from the end of your solution to the normal (forward) scramble with the start of your solution to the inverse scramble. 


Spoiler: Example



Scramble: L D2 F' L2 U2 F' R2 F' D2 B2 F R' U' L' B' F' D2 B2
F L B2 U2 // pseudo-2x2x2 [4/4]
Switch to inverse
(U') // 2x2x2 [1/5]
(F' D2 L' D' F' L2) // 2x2x3 [6/11]
(L' F2 L) // EO [2/13]
(F D2) // pseudo-F2L-1 [2/15]
Switch to normal
D2 F' D F' D' F' D F2 D2 // AB3C [9/24] ... except the F2 D2 at the end of the normal solve will cancel 3 moves with the (F D2) at the end of the inverse solve.
Skeleton: F L B2 U2 D2 F' * D F' D' F' D F L' F2 L' F D L D2 F U (21 moves)
Insert at *: R' D L D' R D L' D' [6/27]
Solution: F L B2 U2 D2 F' R' D L D' R D L' F' D' F' D F L' F2 L' F D L D2 F U (27 moves)


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## Daniel Lin (Mar 31, 2018)

random fmc attempt, things got kinda CFOPy near the end xd

scramble: R' U' F R' F U2 F2 U2 L2 U2 B' D2 B L2 F' L' B' U R' B2 D F2 R' U2 R' U' F

R F2 U2 F // pairs (4/4)
U2 L2 U2 * U // 2x2x2 (4/8)

* = D L2 D' // 2x2x3 (3/11)
(L F2 L F2 L2) // F2L - 1 (5/16)
(F2 L' F L F L' F' L) // F2L (7/24)
(U L F L' F' U' F') // LL (7/31)

solution: R F2 U2 F U2 L2 U2 D L2 D' F U F L F' L' U' L' F L F' L' F' L F2 L2 F2 L' F2 L' U (31)


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## BQ (Apr 1, 2018)

Here are the solutions from Yiwei Liu in More Than One Cube 2018 first round.
All 3 attempts are 26 moves.


scramble 1:
R' U' F U2 B D2 B2 R2 F R2 U2 F2 R2 F' R U' L R D2 B L' B F2 U2 R' U' F
final solution:
F U' F' U B' U2 R' U' L2 U R U' L2 B U2 F' D F' D' B' D2 B U' R' F R2


Spoiler



solution:
EO: NISS R2 F' R
222+122: U B' D2 B
l3c: D F D' F U2 B' U' B U' F U F'

skeleton:
F U' F' U B' U * B U2 F' D F' D' B' D2 B U' R' F R2
*: U R' U' L2 U R U' L2




scramble #2:
R' U' F U2 R' D2 F2 L' B2 U2 L' U2 L F L F2 D L F R2 B' D' F U R' U' F
final solution:
F L' F2 L2 F' U2 F D F' U2 D' L F' L' B' L2 B D' R U R' D R L B D'


Spoiler



solution:
222：NISS D B' L' U' R'
223：B' L2 B
l4c：L F L' D F D' L2 F2 L F'

skeleton:
F L' F2 L2 * D F' D' L F' L' B' L2 B # R U L B D'
*: F' U2 F D F' U2 F D'
#: D' R U R' D R U' R'




scramble3:
R' U' F L2 R2 U L2 R2 U2 F2 D U2 B2 F' U L U' L2 D B' R' B' U2 F' R' U' F
final solution:
B' L' F R F' U' F2 U' B' U F' U' B U2 R B U' L' U' L B' L' D2 L' F B


Spoiler



solution:
blocks: B' NISS B' F' L D2
???: NISS L' F R2
233: NISS L B L' U L U B'
l3c: R' U' F' U F R

skeleton:
B' L' F R F' U' F * U R B U' L' U' L B' L' D2 L' F B
*: F U' B' U F' U' B U


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## cubeshepherd (Apr 2, 2018)

I came up with this solution a few days ago and although it is not the best I am still pretty happy with since it is under 40 moves. If anyone has some tips to practice and keep in mind for future solves, I would be very appreciative of that. 
The parts that I have been having the most trouble with is anything after the 2x2x3 blocks/F2L-1. Would my lack of insertions be part or most of the reasons for that? Thank you very much in advance for your tips and help.

Scramble: F2 U2 L' U B' R U B2 L F D2 L2 U2 L' D U' L' B' R D'.

Solution:
R2 D2 R' U L' U2 - 2x2x2
(F2 D' R F' R D2 F) - 2ND F2L Pair
(B' D B) - F2L-1
L D2 L' D' L D2 L' F' D F L D' L' - AB3C
B2 L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R2 B' - L3C

Final Solution: R2 D2 R' U L' U2 L D2 L' D' L D2 L' F' D F L D' L' B2 L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R2 B2 D' B F' D2 R' F R' D F2 (37 moves).


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## asacuber (Apr 2, 2018)

so i had this ridiculously easy scramble and tied my pb(34) for the 3rd time:

R' U' F B2 U2 F2 D2 L2 D2 L2 R F2 D2 B2 D' L' B2 F U2 L' R B' D2 R' U' F
My solution was:
R B2 U' F' U' F' L' U2 L R U2 R'///2X2X3, pair
switch
R B' R' B U R L' B' R' U' B' U B L R2 U F B' R2 F' B U R2// CFOPish, LS+LE,LL
derived in 20 minutes(didn't feel like finding insertions for L3E)

But then I decided to explore stuff and found:
inverse:
L2 B R' D'//2X2X2 :O
SWITCH
L2 U2 L U' L'//2X2X3 in only 9 moves wut

a good looking continuation here seems like:
F' U L F' L'
OR switching to the inverse and finding a bunch of pairs.(I remember somewhere I had a 3 or 4 mover setting up two pairs but the continuations weren't great)
however I couldn't find anything and had to stick to my original solution
Can anyone find a continuation here? I'm sure I tried almost everything

BTW I believe I found a 20-22 mover to L5E, but I don't like finding insertions for edges cuz I don't know many swaps and also I thought that it wouldn't be better than 34 :/


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## guysensei1 (Apr 2, 2018)

All my solutions for Medan April Fools Open 2018, tied NR mean (27.33) 1.5 times and got NR single (24)

1st round: "27.33" (DNF) mean


Spoiler



1) R' U' F U2 R2 D' R2 U F2 L2 U R2 D B R U' B2 U' L B2 U B' F' U' R' U' F, "28" (DNF)


Spoiler



(D R D')//EO (3/3)
(B' F2 D2 R)//2x2x1 (4/7)
(F2 B' R B2) D2//2x2x3 (5/12)
L F2 L F2 L' F2 L2 F'//4C (8/20)

Skeleton: * D2 L F2 L ** F2 L' F2 L2 F' B2 R' B F2 R' D2 F2 B D R' D'
*=L U2 L' D2 L U2 L' D2 (8-4/24)
**= L' F R F' L F R' F' (8-4/28)

Final= L U2 L' D2 L U2 F' R F' L F R' F L' F2 L2 F' B2 R' B F2 R' D2 F2 B D R' *D* (DNF)

Found the skeleton late, wrote the solution down and didn't manage to spot the error somehow, oh well. Insertion was optimal so that's nice.



2) R' U' F R B2 R2 U2 L' D2 U2 R' B2 U F D' R' B2 R D' L' U' B U R' U' F, 28


Spoiler



R2 D' B D2 B'//2x2x2 (5/5)
U' F' L (L2)//2x2x3 (4/9)
R U' R'//EO+pairs (3/12)
U F2 U2 F U2//5C (5/17)

Skeleton: R2 D' B D2 B' U' F' * L R U' ** R' U F2 U2 F U2 L2
*=F R F' L F R' F' L' (8-4/21)
**=U' R2 U L' U' R2 U L (8-1/28)

Final: R2 D' B D2 B' U' R F' L F R' F' R U2 R2 U L' U' R2 U L R' U F2 U2 F U2 L2 (28)

A bit disappointed it didn't cancel more, but otherwise good attempt. Insertions were optimal.



3) R' U' F U2 B' L2 F D2 R2 F' U2 F' D' B2 U' F2 D' L B2 D' F D2 R' U' F, 26


Spoiler



F' L2 F' L2//2x2x2 (4/4)
(B R D B D' R' U2)//F2L-1 (7/11)
(R U' B' R' B R2 U R2)//cool F2L insert leaves 3C (8/19)

Skeleton: F' * L2 F' L2 R2 U' R2 B' R B U R' U2 R D B' D' R' B'
*=B2 L F2 L' B2 L F2 L' (8-1/26)

Final: F' B2 L F2 L' B2 L F2 L F' L2 R2 U' R2 B' R B U R' U2 R D B' D' R' B' (26)

Again disappointed about that it didn't cancel more, but satisfied. Optimal insertion.



Overall I was annoyed at the DNF mean but it would only have tied NR mean, so it's not a big deal.



2nd round: 27.33 tied NR mean 


Spoiler



1) R' U' F R2 F2 R2 U B2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B' D L2 D' R' D2 L' B L D2 U' R' U' F, 30


Spoiler



D' R2 B' L B//2x2x2 (5/5)
F' U' F2 U' (U')//2x2x3 (5/10)
D F' D'//EO (3/13)
(F' L2)//2 pairs (2/15)
(F' L F2 L' F2 L F L2)//3C (8/23)

Skeleton: D' R2 B' L F' * B U' F2 U' D F' D' L2 F' L' F2 L F2 L' F L2 F U'
*=F' L F R F' L' F R' (8-1/30)

Final: D' R2 B' L F2 L F R F' L' F R' B U' F2 U' D F' D' L2 F' L' F2 L F2 L' F L2 F U' (30)

Ran out of time and missed optimal. Would have been a 29, oh well.



2) R' U' F U2 L F2 U2 F2 R' B2 R2 U2 F2 R D R' B2 U F L2 D B2 R' F' R' U' F, 28


Spoiler



F B' L//2x2x1 (3/3)
F' U R B2//2x2x2+preserve some blocks (4/7)
D'//2x2x1 (1/8)
* L F' D' B D' B'//add a 1x2x3 (6/14)
L2 D F' D'//miracle 4C (4/18)

*=D ** L U2 L' D' L U2 L' (8-4/22)
**= B R2 B' L2 B R2 B' L2 (8-2/28)

Final: F B' L F' U R B' R2 B' L2 B R2 B' L' U2 L' D' L U2 F' D' B D' B' L2 D F' D' (28)

Optimal was 27 with a 4 cancel nested within a 3 cancel. I found the 3 cancel insertion but only checked the 4 cancel first insertion due to lack of time. Oh well.



3) R' U' F R2 U' F2 U R2 D L2 B2 R2 B2 D2 F D2 B' R' D' L' B' L' U2 F' R' U' F, 24


Spoiler



(R2 B' D) D' R//2x2x2 (5/5)
F2 U R U' R' U//2x2x3 (6/11)
U' F2 U L'//F2L-1 (4-2/15-2)
F L F2 L'//3C (4/17)

Skeleton: D' R F2 U R U' R' * F2 U L' F L F2 L' D' B R2
*=L2 F R' F' L2 F R F' (8-1/24)

Final: D' R F2 U R U' R' L2 F R' F' L2 F R F U L' F L F2 L' D' B R2 (24)

Finally sub-25 single! I actually missed the cancellation and wrote down a 25. In the last 5 minutes I randomly decided to check that exact point for insertions and found the cancellation. What a save 



30, 28, 24= 27.33 mean. If I had found optimal for everything it would have been a 26.66 mean. I'm still satisfied though.


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## kbrune (Apr 4, 2018)

theos said:


> Scramble: L D2 F' L2 U2 F' R2 F' D2 B2 F R' U' L' B' F' D2 B2
> F L B2 U2 // pseudo-2x2x2 [4/4]



I'm intermediate at best for FMC. I've been looking at other solutions in the hopes of picking up more knowledge when I came across this example you gave.

I'm curious of why, in this opening set of moves you decided to make a pseudo 2x2x2 with the B2 U2 (third and fourth moves) instead of making a real 2x2x2 by doing R2 U' instead. It would have been the same amount of moves.

What was your thought process?

Edit: this is from an example you gave on this page about canceling moves between inverse and normal solutions.


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## guysensei1 (Apr 4, 2018)

kbrune said:


> I'm intermediate at best for FMC. I've been looking at other solutions in the hopes of picking up more knowledge when I came across this example you gave.
> 
> I'm curious of why, in this opening set of moves you decided to make a pseudo 2x2x2 with the B2 U2 (third and fourth moves) instead of making a real 2x2x2 by doing R2 U' instead. It would have been the same amount of moves.
> 
> ...


Often times the answer to "why didn't you do () this way" is simply that the way he did it gave a better continuation than the more efficient way to solve the block.


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## kbrune (Apr 4, 2018)

guysensei1 said:


> Often times the answer to "why didn't you do () this way" is simply that the way he did it gave a better continuation than the more efficient way to solve the block.



So the odds are that he did try the "real block" at first. then saw the pseudo after and turns out it gave better solution going forward?


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## guysensei1 (Apr 4, 2018)

kbrune said:


> So the odds are that he did try the "real block" at first. then saw the pseudo after and turns out it gave better solution going forward?


Probably, yeah


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## theos (Apr 4, 2018)

kbrune said:


> I'm intermediate at best for FMC. I've been looking at other solutions in the hopes of picking up more knowledge when I came across this example you gave.
> 
> I'm curious of why, in this opening set of moves you decided to make a pseudo 2x2x2 with the B2 U2 (third and fourth moves) instead of making a real 2x2x2 by doing R2 U' instead. It would have been the same amount of moves.
> 
> ...


I'd love to say it's because I found that it gave a better continuation, but in this case I honestly don't know. I keep the final annotated solutions to all my sub-30 solutions and I just pulled one out that worked as an example. And this one's pretty old (no R' U' F wrapper around the scramble is evidence of that). It's quite possible that I simply missed the obvious block and got lucky with a good solve anyway. If I had to take a guess it would be that I'd just learned how to do pseudo-blocks and was forcing all my 2x2x2s that way


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## Theo Leinad (Apr 5, 2018)

Have you ever heard about the "Free insertion club"? 
Scramble: R' U' F L2 R2 U F2 R2 B2 L2 U' R2 U' F L D2 L2 R' D2 F' L U2 F R' U' F
26:
U2 F // 2P (2)
(L' B) // EO (4)
(R2 U L' D2 R2) // 222+221 (9)
(L' U L U') // 221+223 (13)
(L R B2 L R' U2 B2) // Edge Permutation to L4C (20)

Skeleton:
U2 F B2 U2 L' R B2 L' + R' / U L' U' L R2 D2 L U' R2 B' L

Insert at:
/ R2 U L' U' R2 U L U' (Cancels 9) Epic Insertion!! (19)
+ D2 R' U' R D2 R' U R (Cancels 1) (26)

Final Solution (26):
U2 F B2 U2 L' R B2 L' D2 R' U' R D2 R' U R2 U L' U' L D2 L U' R2 B' L


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## guysensei1 (Apr 5, 2018)

Theo Leinad said:


> Have you ever heard about the "Free insertion club"?
> Scramble: R' U' F L2 R2 U F2 R2 B2 L2 U' R2 U' F L D2 L2 R' D2 F' L U2 F R' U' F
> 26:
> U2 F // 2P (2)
> ...


You can interpret the "free insertion" as part of your skeleton:

Scramble: R' U' F L2 R2 U F2 R2 B2 L2 U' R2 U' F L D2 L2 R' D2 F' L U2 F R' U' F
26:
U2 F // 2P (2)
(L' B) // EO (4)
(R2 U L' D2) // 2*221 (8)
(L' U L U' L2 R2) // almost an f2l-1 (14)
(L' R B2 L R' U2 B2)//3C (21-2)


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 5, 2018)

If you don’t mind. Could you explain a “free insertion?” Thanks!

Edit- Wait is that where it cancels all the moves? If so wouldn’t there be no “insertion” in the first place. Because you wouldn’t add any moves to change outcome of solution.


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## cubeshepherd (Apr 5, 2018)

I have a few quick question regarding insertions which are: During a solve after you have your skeleton and you have a few corners left that insertions can fix, how do you know what commutator/s to use, without learning any algs? and what is the best way to learn how to set up the corners in the right orientation? 

I know how insertions work, what is does, and I have watched a lot of videos on it, but I can not seem to figure out how to execute the insertions in the right way, or know what to execute/set up when I get to the insertions. I know that a PLL Aperm rotates three corners, but those corners are already in the right orientation due to OLL, and not flipped like a Sune case with only the corners left. 

Thank you very much in advance for any and all help.


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## Robert Marik (Apr 6, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> I have a few quick question regarding insertions which are: During a solve after you have your skeleton and you have a few corners left that insertions can fix, how do you know what commutator/s to use, without learning any algs? and what is the best way to learn how to set up the corners in the right orientation?
> 
> I know how insertions work, what is does, and I have watched a lot of videos on it, but I can not seem to figure out how to execute the insertions in the right way, or know what to execute/set up when I get to the insertions. I know that a PLL Aperm rotates three corners, but those corners are already in the right orientation due to OLL, and not flipped like a Sune case with only the corners left.
> 
> Thank you very much in advance for any and all help.


I learned 3-corners commutators from https://www.ryanheise.com/cube/corner_3_cycles.html
Sometimes it is better to reverse the cycle, i.e. sometimes it is better to use commutator X Y X^(-1) Y^(-1) where X is one move and Y three moves.

More precisely, the scramble D' R U' R' D R U R' can be solved with the commutator
R U' R' + D' + R U R' + D and also with the commutator D + B U2 B' + D' + B U2 B'

Do not learn these sequences as algs. Instead note how the pieces in the D face move in the first and in the second case and also learn what the remaining three moves do with one of these pieces (in D face again).


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## cubeshepherd (Apr 8, 2018)

I did two FMC solves yesterday and both I am happy with, and although the second one has a high move count I was happy with it because it was the first solve that I fully knew how to do insertions (or at least as best as I could ).

I put the solves in spoilers because the first one is for the weekly FMC competition on this website https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/ And the second solve is for this weeks "weekly competition 2018-14" and in case you for some reason did not want to see others results I have them in the spoilers.

For both solve, but especially the second I am looking for any tips or thoughts that you have for me to improve on for the next solves, or that I could have done better in the listed solves. I know that the second solve could have been much better, but since I was running out of time, I did not want to spend to much time on insertions and then DNF the solve.



Spoiler: 1st FMC solve



Scramble: U F2 R2 L U' F2 B2 U' L2 R2 D' B' F2 U' B F2 U' D2 R' U'

U2 B2 L' U' L D2 L' U L2 U2 L' R U' R'//2X2X3 14/14
U B U B'//F2L-1 4/18
U2 L U L' U2 L U' L'//AB3C 8/26
F R F' L F R' F' L'//L3C 8/34

Final solution: U2 B2 L' U' L D2 L' U L2 U2 L' R U' R' U B U B' U2 L U L' U2 L U' L' F R F' L F R' F' L' (34 moves)





Spoiler: 2nd Solve



Scramble: R' U' F U B L' B2 U F R' U' L B L2 B2 D B2 D F2 R2 U' F2 D F2 R' U' F

B L' D L @ B' U' R2 B R B' F2 L D L D' F' L B' L' B//F2L-1 20/20
R' D' R D2//AB3C 4/24
F' U' F D' F' U F D2 B D' F D B' D' F'//L3C 15/39

@ Insert at - L U2 R2 U L U' R2 U L' U L' Cancels 1 move at least 

Final Solution: B L' D L2 U2 R2 U L U' R2 U L' U L' B' U' R2 B R B' F2 L D L D' F' L B' L' B R' D' R D2 F' U' F D' F' U F D2 B D' F D B' D' F' (49 moves)



Thank you very much in advance for your time and help with this. I really appreciate it.


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 8, 2018)

I was working on a solution for the FMC race thread I started.
Scramble: R' U' F B' D2 B' R2 B' U2 R2 B F2 U2 F' L' R B L2 U' F2 U' R2 F R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R F' R2 U F2 U L2 B' R' L F U2 F2 B' R2 U2 B R2 B D2 B F' U R


(D2 B2 L' D F U')-2X2X2 6/6
B D R B' D -2X2X3 5/11

R' B' R2 B2- Pheudo F2L-1 4/15

However when doing a U premove then doing my solution To get a normal F2L-1. (U') (U F' D' L B2 D2) (Normal Scramble) then (B D R B' D R' B' R2)it doesn't leave F2L-1. Why? Thanks!


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## TheDubDubJr (Apr 9, 2018)

Just letting everyone here on Speedsolving know.

We have a FMC Facebook Group (link below) and we are starting a FMC Double Elimination Knockout Tournament in that group.

To get entry into the Tournament, join the group and an FMC on the scramble posted. Then submit it to the Google Forms afterwards. The Deadline for entering the Tournament is Friday, April 20th at 1200 UTC.

All attempts follow WCA Regulations and are a 1 Hour Limit. Each Round Period will last 1 Week where you need to contact your opponent for the next Match and do that Rounds FMC Scramble.

Here is the link to the Facebook Group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422080808012720/ 
You can also find it by typing in "Fewest Moves"

We have 21 People signed up so far!


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## cubeshepherd (Apr 9, 2018)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Just letting everyone here on Speedsolving know.
> 
> We have a FMC Facebook Group (link below) and we are starting a FMC Double Elimination Knockout Tournament in that group.
> 
> ...


That is a really great idea and I would be interested in joining, but I do not have a Facebook account and I do not think that I will be able to get an account anytime soon.
Plus, I am really bad at FMC at the moment so I would be kick out really fast.

But to you and all that compete in it, best of luck with the solves, and hopefully I can improve soon in FMC, and then maybe join.


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## bubbagrub (Apr 9, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> I was working on a solution for the FMC race thread I started.
> Scramble: R' U' F B' D2 B' R2 B' U2 R2 B F2 U2 F' L' R B L2 U' F2 U' R2 F R' U' F
> Inverse: F' U R F' R2 U F2 U L2 B' R' L F U2 F2 B' R2 U2 B R2 B D2 B F' U R
> 
> ...



Your premove should be B' not U'.


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## asacuber (Apr 9, 2018)

For this weeks weekly comp, i got a 33 overall PB
I was happy but...
IF gave 27 
Get this:
my skeleton was *25* moves long
I cant believe i missed it, in fact 27 could have been achieved at 4 consecutive points i the skeleton. im sed 
On a side note, I was surprised no one used the start I used


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 9, 2018)

Scramble: R' U' F B' D2 B' R2 B' U2 R2 B F2 U2 F' L' R B L2 U' F2 U' R2 F R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R F' R2 U F2 U L2 B' R' L F U2 F2 B' R2 U2 B R2 B D2 B F' U R


(D2 B2 L' D F U')-2X2X2 6/6
B D R B' D -2X2X3 5/11
R' B' R2 B2- Pheudo F2L-1 4/15
R B R2 B' R B R' B' U2- AB4C 9/24

I have a premove of B'. How would I write thee right solution for IF? Sorry for the silly question, NISS is fine for me, but with premoves it trips me up. Thanks.


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## ch_ts (Apr 9, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> Scramble: R' U' F B' D2 B' R2 B' U2 R2 B F2 U2 F' L' R B L2 U' F2 U' R2 F R' U' F
> Inverse: F' U R F' R2 U F2 U L2 B' R' L F U2 F2 B' R2 U2 B R2 B D2 B F' U R
> 
> 
> ...



This is your skeleton:
B D R B' D 
R' B' R2 B2
R B R2 B' R B R' B' R2 // (R2 here instead of U2)
B'
U F' D' L B2 D2


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 9, 2018)

ch_ts said:


> This is your skeleton:
> B D R B' D
> R' B' R2 B2
> R B R2 B' R B R' B' R2 // (R2 here instead of U2)
> ...


Thank you.

IF saids

B D R B' D R' B' R2 B2 R B R2 B' [@1] R B R' B' R2 B' U F' D' L B2 D2
Insert at @1: F' R B R' F R B' R'
After the 1st insertion: B D R B' D R' B' R2 B2 R B R2 B' F' R B R' F B' R2 B' U F' D' L B2 [@2] D2
Insert at @2: B2 D' F D B2 D' F' D
Fewest moves: 32. 9 moves cancelled
The final solution: B D R B' D R' B' R2 B2 R B R2 B' F' R B R' F B' R2 B' U F' D' L D' F D B2 D' F' D'


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## cubeshepherd (Apr 10, 2018)

Two quick FMC questions.

1. What is the best way to learn edge insertions? I have at times gotten stuck with a 2 or 3 edge cycle and I am trying to figure out the best to cycle them. I know the 9 move U-perm alg but if I had to take a guess, I would say that there is a more efficient way.

2. What is the best way to flip either 1 or 2 corners? I have gotten a few solves with flipped corners, an the only way that I have fixed it, is by doing 2 corner cycles.

Thank you very much in advance for your help.


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## asacuber (Apr 10, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> Two quick FMC questions.
> 
> 1. What is the best way to learn edge insertions? I have at times gotten stuck with a 2 or 3 edge cycle and I am trying to figure out the best to cycle them. I know the 9 move U-perm alg but if I had to take a guess, I would say that there is a more efficient way.
> 
> ...



1. Even I'm SUPER uncomfortable with edge insertions, and avoid them(except in a case where i may have only L3E left and have nothing else/ really good solution which hasn't happened yet)
However here are a few(i forgot which pieces most of them cycle but hey, at least they work lol)
L R' F2 L' R U2
L R' U2 L' R U2(same as above actually)
R U R U R' U' R' U' R' U AND its inverse, lefty etc
theses are the only one's i know, hope these help! Also @porkynator 's FMC tutorial contains some I believe.

2. sune lefty sune
antisune lefty antisune
R U2 R' L' U' L U' R U' R' L' U2 L U

Hope this helped


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## porkynator (Apr 10, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> Two quick FMC questions.
> 
> 1. What is the best way to learn edge insertions? I have at times gotten stuck with a 2 or 3 edge cycle and I am trying to figure out the best to cycle them. I know the 9 move U-perm alg but if I had to take a guess, I would say that there is a more efficient way.
> 
> ...



1. There are a lot of edges 3-cycle that can be useful. M' U2 M U2 is one, but also the 8-movers are nice: R2 Fw2 R2 U R2 Fw2 R2 U and its fat friend R2 Fw2 R2 Uw R2 Fw2 R2 Uw. Also some <R,U> algs are useful.
2. Two corner cycles is the way for twisting 2 or 3 corners. You can use 2 insertions. With the first one, you just pick a cycle that permutes your 2 or 3 corners (plus 1 solved corner if you have only two, it doesn't matter which one). Usually you can cancel a lot with the first insertion. Then you are left with 3 corners, and you just need one insertion.


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## cubeshepherd (Apr 10, 2018)

porkynator said:


> 1. There are a lot of edges 3-cycle that can be useful. M' U2 M U2 is one, but also the 8-movers are nice: R2 Fw2 R2 U R2 Fw2 R2 U and its fat friend R2 Fw2 R2 Uw R2 Fw2 R2 Uw. Also some <R,U> algs are useful.
> 2. Two corner cycles is the way for twisting 2 or 3 corners. You can use 2 insertions. With the first one, you just pick a cycle that permutes your 2 or 3 corners (plus 1 solved corner if you have only two, it doesn't matter which one). Usually you can cancel a lot with the first insertion. Then you are left with 3 corners, and you just need one insertion.


Thank you very much for the response and help. I do really appreciate it.



asacuber said:


> 1. Even I'm SUPER uncomfortable with edge insertions, and avoid them(except in a case where i may have only L3E left and have nothing else/ really good solution which hasn't happened yet)
> However here are a few(i forgot which pieces most of them cycle but hey, at least they work lol)
> L R' F2 L' R U2
> L R' U2 L' R U2(same as above actually)
> ...


Thank you very much as well for your response and help. It does really help, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond.


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## guysensei1 (Apr 10, 2018)

R' U' F D' R B2 L' D2 B2 L2 R' F R' U2 F' L U' B2 F2 D2 R' U' F

F2 L F2//setup (3/3)
L2 B//EO+square (2/5)
R D'//2x2x2 (2/7)
L2 U2//square (2/9)
L2 U L U'//another square (4/13)
F2 L' U'//5C (3/16)

cool 5C skeleton, but the insertions were poor, optimal was 4 cancel nested in a 1 cancel :/


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## obelisk477 (Apr 10, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> Two quick FMC questions.
> 
> 1. What is the best way to learn edge insertions? I have at times gotten stuck with a 2 or 3 edge cycle and I am trying to figure out the best to cycle them. I know the 9 move U-perm alg but if I had to take a guess, I would say that there is a more efficient way.
> 
> ...



Also, if you have an X-corner 3 edge skeleton, you can insert sexy, or variations of it, try to cancel some moves, and see how that effects the unsolved corners. Usually you can cancel at least 1 move this way, so you solve three edges with 3 moves, and then you are only left with corners to solve.


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## TheDubDubJr (Apr 10, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> Two quick FMC questions.
> 
> 1. What is the best way to learn edge insertions? I have at times gotten stuck with a 2 or 3 edge cycle and I am trying to figure out the best to cycle them. I know the 9 move U-perm alg but if I had to take a guess, I would say that there is a more efficient way.
> 
> ...





porkynator said:


> 1. There are a lot of edges 3-cycle that can be useful. M' U2 M U2 is one, but also the 8-movers are nice: R2 Fw2 R2 U R2 Fw2 R2 U and its fat friend R2 Fw2 R2 Uw R2 Fw2 R2 Uw. Also some <R,U> algs are useful.



Sebastiano mentioned most useful algs for Edge insertions, especially the M' U2 M U2 as they are 6 movers and can lead to the better solutions when you find those positions.

Other cool things to keep in mind on Edge insertions. (Some of these might be pretty advanced but just want to post all edge insertions I know)

1. [6 Moves] M' U2 M U2 rewritten to R' L F2 R L' U2. Keep in mind that R' L do not effect the edges so you can shift either of them to the front or back to possibly cancel more. (Ex. R' F2 R L' U2 L, F2 R L' U2 L R', and R' L F2 R L' U2 are all same)
(#2, 3, and 4 all do the exact same case. Also keep in mind inverse cases for these)
2. [8 Moves] Sebastiano's R2 Fw2 R2 U R2 Fw2 R2 U can be rewritten as R2 B2 L2 D L2 B2 R2 U. Same cyclic shift for moves can be applied since R2 B2 don't effect the edges yet. (Ex. R2 B2 L2 D L2 B2 R2 U same as L2 D L2 B2 R2 U R2 B2 and as B2 L2 D L2 B2 R2 U R2)
3. [8 Moves] Another similar one is R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 D. Same shifts can be done for first 2 moves. (Ex. R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 D same as B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 D R2 and as L2 U B2 R2 F2 D R2 B2)
4. [8 Moves] Similar still is L2 B2 R2 D R2 B2 L2 U although this time no shifts are possible since the edges are changed with the first move of L2.
5. [10 Moves] R' U' R' U' R' U R U R U swaps UR-FR-UB. I initially learned this as an F2L case (Shout out to Brest) but later as a type of 2gen edge insertions to look out for. 
6. [10 Moves] U L D R F R' D' L' U' F' changes UR-FR-FU. This one is very strange but just think of it as doing all the moves around a face, then moving that face, then inverse of everything.
7. [10 Moves] U' R U M2 U' R' U M2, finally just the normal 10 movers where a Slice move (M2) is the 1 move interchange. Keep in mind other normal 10 movers where the slice move is a part of the swap (Ex. R' E R U' R' E' R U)

For Multiple Edges
Make sure you know R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 and D2 L2 U2 L2 D2 R2 (plus variations and shifts of the 2nd one).

@cubeshepherd Question 2. Sebastiano mentioned the best way which is doing a 3 corner commutator involving all twisted corners. If it is only 2 twisted corners then just involve any other corner for the 3rd corner of the commutator. Because you have so much flexibility on these insertions and corners, usually you can cancel a lot on the first insertion (5 or 6 cancellation) then it leads to a normal Last 3 Corners case.


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## cubeshepherd (Apr 10, 2018)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Sebastiano mentioned most useful algs for Edge insertions, especially the M' U2 M U2 as they are 6 movers and can lead to the better solutions when you find those positions.
> 
> Other cool things to keep in mind on Edge insertions. (Some of these might be pretty advanced but just want to post all edge insertions I know)
> 
> ...


Wow! Thank you very much for the info. This will really help me (and other) out, and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to explain that all. Thanks again.


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## TheDubDubJr (Apr 10, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> Wow! Thank you very much for the info. This will really help me (and other) out, and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to explain that all. Thanks again.



No problem! Always happy to help. But if you are starting to get into FMC as a Beginner/Intermediate, just learning 1, 3, and 7 would be a good start to know. Those will be able to handle most cases that you come across.


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## guysensei1 (Apr 11, 2018)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Sebastiano mentioned most useful algs for Edge insertions, especially the M' U2 M U2 as they are 6 movers and can lead to the better solutions when you find those positions.
> 
> Other cool things to keep in mind on Edge insertions. (Some of these might be pretty advanced but just want to post all edge insertions I know)
> 
> ...


To add a few more cases,

1) "wide move" insertions: 
Things like Uw R Uw' M2 Uw R' Uw' M2, Uw R2 Uw' M Uw R2 Uw' M', etc
2) cyclic shifts of some 10 movers, these are 10 movers conjugated with a move that cancels into the slice move interchange

R2 U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' Rw2
You can even combine the wide move insertions with the cyclic shifts
L Uw R' Uw' M Uw R Uw' Lw'


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## Shymon (Apr 11, 2018)

Last solve of official 30 average (30, 35, 25) done at GLS Cup II 2018
The most ridiculous solve I've ever had



Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F U' L2 B2 D B2 D R2 U' F' U' L B2 R' F' L2 D2 U B2 L' U' R' U' F

Looking at this scramble I couldn't see any worthy block building start so I started looking for the EO.

Because I only do EO like once in 15 solves I'm still not good at it and check this out:

I wanted to do UD EO and stupidly, I thought UL and DL ware only misoriented edges and just playing with the cube I checked 4 frurufs to see if any would do something decent to the cube (doing frurufs is not time-consuming at all so why not)

It went like this:

U B L B' L' U' // "pseudo EO" with a pair (6/6)

L2 B' L D2 R2 L' D2 L2 D2 // F2L-2 with two pairs and one other F2L edge in place (9/15)

(At this point, I saw yellow-blue edge and realized my EO was actually "EO-2" lol)

L D L2 D' L' B D' B' D L // AB3C (10/25)

Got 30 from this skeleton, but since I had some time left I came up with an almost identical 25 move skeleton, but with R2 AUF at the end

New Skeleton: U B L B' L' U' L2 B' L D2 L U2 L2 @ U2 L' D L2 D' L' B D' B' D L R2 (25)

@ - L' D L U2 L' D' L U2 (8-8=0) what the actual fridge 

Solution: U B L B' L' U' L2 B' L D2 L U2 L D L U2 L D' L' B D' B' D L R2 (25)



Btw: Marcin Stachura got 25 out of 22 moves 2 twisted corners skeleton (-8, -5) in the previous solve so I wasn't the only one with more than enough luck (though I'm sure his solution wasn't as stupid as mine)

I am more than delighted for both single and average I got. FMC really got me into it recently and I hope that won't change


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## guysensei1 (Apr 14, 2018)

R' U' F L D2 F2 R' F2 U2 R' U2 R B' L2 D U2 L2 R' D2 F L2 D' U' R' U' F

one of the coolest/luckiest things I've ever done


Spoiler



D2 F' R' F2 R' F//2x2x2 (6/6)
R B ** U' B//2x2x3 (4/10)
B U2 B'//EO (3-1/13-1)
* U2 R U2 R' U2//4 twisted corners (5/17)

*=B U B' U' B U B' U'//reduce to 3E (8-4/25-4)
**=B' R2 L2 F D' F' R2 L2 B U (10-6/31-6)

Final: D2 F' R' F2 R' F R' L2 F D' F' R2 L2 B' U' B' U' B U B' U R U2 R' U2 (25)

Who said 4 twisted is a bad case?


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## guysensei1 (Apr 16, 2018)

Why can't insertion finder find optimal for this?

R' U' F L2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D B R' U L2 D R2 U2 L' F2 U' L F2 R' U' F

Spoilers for the facebook weekly comp btw


Spoiler



*L* R' D' L2 *D* B U2//2x2x2 with 2 inserted moves (7/7)
B2 L D2 L B' D//F2L-1 (6/13)
L2 F L' F' L D' L' D//3E (8/21)

L R' D' L2 D B U2 B2 L * D2 L B' D L2 F L' F' L D' L' D

*=L D' L' U2 D2 R D R' U2 D2 (10-3/31-3)

Final: L R' D' L2 D B U2 B2 L2 D' L' U2 D2 R D R' U2 L B' D L2 F L' F' L D' L' D (28)

IF says 29 for some reason.


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 18, 2018)

semi hard scramble. How would you guys approach it?

R' U' F R2 F L2 U L' U' R2 U2 D F B2 U2 F2 B2 L2 F2 D F2 U' L2 U R' U' F

R2 // pair
(L' B D' U L D' R' F2 D' F D F' R F D2 R D' R' D R' B R B' F' D' F D' F' D2 F) // cfop

solution: R2 F' D2 F D F' D F B R' B' R D' R D R' D2 F' R' F D' F' D F2 R D L' U' D B' L (31)


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 18, 2018)

Interesting 2x2x3

R2 L' B' U' R2 U R' B F' U' B' R2 B2 R2 - 2X2X3 14/14

OR

L' U D' F' U2 B' R - 2X2X2 7/7

L' F L2 F B' L B F' - Diag 2X2X3? 8/15

R F D F' D' R' - EO 6/21

L D L' D L D2 L' D2 - EP 8/29

ab5c



Spoiler: IF



L' D' [@1] U F' U2 B' R L' F L2 F B' L B F' R F D F' D' R' L D L' D L D2 L' D2
Insert at @1: B' U F' U' B U F U'
After the 1st insertion: L' D' B' U [@2] F' U' B U' B' R L' F L2 F B' L B F' R F D F' D' R' L D L' D L D2 L' D2
Insert at @2: U F' D' F U' F' D F
After the 2nd insertion: L' D' B' U2 F' D' F U' F' D U' B U' B' [@3] R L' F L2 F B' L B F' R F D F' D' R' L D L' D L D2 L' D2
Insert at @3: B U B' D2 B U' B' D2
Fewest moves: 38. 15 moves cancelled
The final solution: L' D' B' U2 F' D' F U' F' D' U' B U' B' D2 R L' F L2 F B' L B F' R F D F' D' R' L D L' D L D2 L' D2



None of these are great. But hey practice for me.


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## ch_ts (Apr 18, 2018)

guysensei1 said:


> Why can't insertion finder find optimal for this?



Because insertion finder only uses the algs that its creator provided to it. 

Some time ago, I found a corner insertion using sledgehammer something like [R' F R F', D] which was shorter than any of the ones IF found. I wonder if this type of commutator ever got added since then. So it's not always optimal, the insertions are not guaranteed to be optimal... but on the other hand, sometimes it will use algs which i would never use as insertions.


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## xyzzy (Apr 18, 2018)

TheDubDubJr said:


> Sebastiano mentioned most useful algs for Edge insertions, especially the M' U2 M U2 as they are 6 movers and can lead to the better solutions when you find those positions.
> 
> Other cool things to keep in mind on Edge insertions. (Some of these might be pretty advanced but just want to post all edge insertions I know)
> 
> ...


To add a few more cases…

[10 moves] There's this 2+2-cycle ELL alg: F R U R' U' F2 L' U' L U F; doing a cyclic shift will cancel one move and give R U R' U' F2 L' U' L U F2.

[6 moves] M2 U2 M2 U2 and shifts like R2 U2 M2 U2 r2.

[8 moves] M E2 M E2 and shifts and other variations (e.g. F2 M2 U2 M2 U2 F2, which is just a conjugation of the above case).

[10 moves] Optimal H perms: [R2 S2 R2, U/U'] and L R U2 L' R' F' B' U2 F B and the mirrors/inverses/rotations of these. You can always cancel at least two moves by choosing the correct alg, so it's really effectively 8 moves long. Also note that R2 S2 R2 = L2 S2 L2, so these are really _thirty-six_ algs for the price of two.


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## guysensei1 (Apr 18, 2018)

2. R' U' F U2 B D L U2 D R F L2 F2 L' F2 R' F2 L2 D2 L' B R' U' F

Super cool solution with some hax


Spoiler



U *L'* D//square (3/3)
U2 R B//pseudo222 (3/6)
U2 L' B'//pseudo223 (3/9)
F' R U R'//pseudo F2L-1 (4/13)
U B'//4c4e (2/15)

Hax 1: Remove the move in **, leaves 3E4C in 13

Skeleton: U' D R B U2 L' B' F' * R U R' U B' (13)

Hax2: use niss (ok fine its just inverse scramble) within an insertion

*=
(R' U L' U' R)//complete F2L (5-1/18-1)
(B' L' B L' B' L2 B L')//LL (8/25)

Final: U' D R B U2 L' B' F' L B' L2 B L B' L B R' U L U' R2 U R' U B' (25)


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## guysensei1 (Apr 18, 2018)

xyzzy said:


> To add a few more cases…
> 
> [10 moves] There's this 2+2-cycle ELL alg: F R U R' U' F2 L' U' L U F; doing a cyclic shift will cancel one move and give R U R' U' F2 L' U' L U F2.
> 
> ...


Double post but

Just wanna add another 8 move alg: 

R2 B2 L2 U R2 F2 L2 D which is a 2-2 swap cancelled into the weird 8 move edge comm.


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 18, 2018)

*This is from this weeks weekly FMC comp! *

I'm happy with this as of now. After this I tried lots of different EO's and was able to find some okay EO's. Some let ab5c but with 2 twisted 

How would you continue? Thanks.



Spoiler



(L' D2 F U' R B2 R' D2 R D' F' D') -Phesdo 2X2X3 13/13 Premove D2
(U' L' U L2) - F2L-1 4/17 Premove L2


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## G2013 (Apr 18, 2018)

I just had an optimal insertion of 1 cancellation. That's frustrating

Scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 F' B' R F B U2 R' U L2 D2 F2 U L2 D R2 U B2 D R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R D' B2 U' R2 D' L2 U' F2 D2 L2 U' R U2 B' F' R' B F L2 U2 F' U R


Spoiler



R2 B2 F' R //2x2x1
F U2 R' //2x2x1 x2 + edge
D2 B D' //Pseudo 2x2x3 + many pairs
(U2 R2 F2 R2) //F2L-1 pseudo
R U //premoves
F U F' U' R' F' R F2 //L3C in 24

Skeleton: R2 B2 F' R F U2 R' D2 B D' R U F U F' U' R' F' R (U' L' U R2 U' L U R2 for 32 backup) F2 R2 F2 R2 U2

R2 B2 F' R F U2 R' D2 B D' R U F U (R B' R' F2 R B R' F2) F' U' R' F' R F2 R2 F2 R2 U2 (24+8-1 = 31)


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 19, 2018)

(FB weekly comp spoiler)

scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 D F2 U B' D U F' L' F2 D B D2 U' L2 B2 R' U' F

R' B' R D F2 // 2x2x2
U' L' U B' L' B' // 2x2x3

I found a continuation to F sexy F' pll skip but I lost it. If anyone can find it I will be super happy.


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 19, 2018)

Did you continue with red or white? Or do you know?


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 19, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> Did you continue with red or white? Or do you know?


I don't remember


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 19, 2018)

Daniel Lin said:


> I don't remember



Sorry for questions. I'm determined to find this out. Did you count moves? About how many?


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## guysensei1 (Apr 19, 2018)

Daniel Lin said:


> (FB weekly comp spoiler)
> 
> scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 D F2 U B' D U F' L' F2 D B D2 U' L2 B2 R' U' F
> 
> ...


If you remember the exact AUF and orientation of the pll skip you can do the inverse of that on a solved cube, then do the scramble and then do your block. Now you just need to solve for a LL skip which should be easier to spot than a FsexyF'.


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## Daniel Lin (Apr 19, 2018)

guysensei1 said:


> If you remember the exact AUF and orientation of the pll skip you can do the inverse of that on a solved cube, then do the scramble and then do your block. Now you just need to solve for a LL skip which should be easier to spot than a FsexyF'.



shouldn't i just do the alg+AUF before the scramble rather than the inverse?

And i think it was F sexy F' U2 but I don't remember the orientation


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## guysensei1 (Apr 19, 2018)

Daniel Lin said:


> shouldn't i just do the alg+AUF before the scramble rather than the inverse?
> 
> And i think it was F sexy F' U2 but I don't remember the orientation


Yeah you're right.


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## BQ (Apr 19, 2018)

guysensei1 said:


> Why can't insertion finder find optimal for this?
> 
> R' U' F L2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D B R' U L2 D R2 U2 L' F2 U' L F2 R' U' F
> 
> ...


There's a bug on the IF.


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 20, 2018)

Daniel Lin said:


> (FB weekly comp spoiler)
> 
> scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 D F2 U B' D U F' L' F2 D B D2 U' L2 B2 R' U' F
> 
> ...



Any chance in the world it is R F2 L2 F2 R' D' F2 D2 L2 F L2 D2 B' L' B L F2?


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## asacuber (Apr 20, 2018)

Cancelled moves in an insertion for the first time i believe(2 yay)
also optimal insertion so thats kinda cool


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 20, 2018)

A few questions. I'm going to a comp with FMC and wanna get sub 35ish before I go. I know basic blockbuilding, NISS, Pheudo blocks, and some EO. No insertions, edge cylces or anything super advanced.

What algs/things are most important to get sub 35 before the comp in just under 2 months?

Should I always have a backup solution (I do really want a mean), and what is a good place to learn time management?

Thanks,

Duncan Bannon


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## porkynator (Apr 20, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> A few questions. I'm going to a comp with FMC and wanna get sub 35ish before I go. I know basic blockbuilding, NISS, Pheudo blocks, and some EO. No insertions, edge cylces or anything super advanced.
> 
> What algs/things are most important to get sub 35 before the comp in just under 2 months?
> 
> ...



Insertions are the most important. Learn how to do 3/4 corners (and also 5 corners, or twist, but it is basically the same thing). You will need corner commutators for this (just the "pure" cases). You can also try edge insertions or other things, but go for corners first.

It's a good thing to have a backup solution written at some point, maybe after 30 minutes or so, but you don't need to in case you some half-solutions and you are confident you can finish them in time.

For time management, I can't give any advice, except: pratice. Do 1hr attempts and try to see what's going wrong when you run out of time.


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 20, 2018)

Thanks for the advice @porkynator, I really like your FMC guide!

I apologize if my questions are clogging up the thread.

How would you approach a scramble like R' U' F L' U2 F2 L2 F2 R' B2 R' B2 D2 L' F' L2 U' L' R F' D R2 B R' U' F were there are no 1 move 1x1x2 blocks?


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## porkynator (Apr 21, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> Thanks for the advice @porkynator, I really like your FMC guide!
> 
> I apologize if my questions are clogging up the thread.
> 
> How would you approach a scramble like R' U' F L' U2 F2 L2 F2 R' B2 R' B2 D2 L' F' L2 U' L' R F' D R2 B R' U' F were there are no 1 move 1x1x2 blocks?


You are welcome, I'm glad you like it!

If there is no good blockbuilding start, it may be a good idea to start with EO. In this case there is no very good EO case (on all orientation it's 6 or 8 bad edges), but you can do something like this, on the inverse scramble:

EO: (D R2 F' B D)

which doesn't look very good, you can modify it to:

D
F (save pair)
R2 F2 B D //EO

and continue with
L' B2 //2x2x2 + pair


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## cubeshepherd (Apr 23, 2018)

So I just came up with this solution for the Weekly Competition 2018-16 and I am pretty happy with it over all, but if anyone has any tips that they see that I should keep in mind for future solves (especially for the 2x2x2 and 2x2x3 blocks), then I am more then open to ideas. Thanks.

Scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 F' B' R F B U2 R' U L2 D2 F2 U L2 D R2 U B2 D R' U' F

R2 D' R2 D2 F D2 L' F//2X2X2 8/8
D2 U' L' U//2X2X3 4/12
D B' L B L2 D L//F2L-1 7/19
B' ^ R' B R2 D' # R' D//AB4C 7/26

^ Insert at ^ D' R' U' R D R' U R
Insert at # D R U2 R' D' R U2 R'

Final solution: R2 D' R2 D2 F D2 L' F D2 U' L' U D B' L B L2 D L B' D' R' U' R D R' U B R' U2 R' D' R U2 R2 D (36 Moves).


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 29, 2018)

Scramble: L D2 B2 R B2 F2 L B2 F2 L' U2 F R U R2 U L' U' B D'
Inverse: D B' U L U' R2 U' R' F' U2 L F2 B2 L' F2 B2 R2 B2 D2 L'

F2 D' B R2 - 2X2X2 4/4
F B' L' F' B D2 L' D2 L D L' - XXcross 11/15
F D F' - F2L-1 3/18
D B D B' D' B D B' D2- ab4c 9/27

I think IF is down. So 12 ish move is a 39. Help is appreciated.


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## asacuber (Apr 29, 2018)

Hey guys, i found a really good start for the weekly fmc(open spoilers only if you arent competing pls)



Spoiler



F B' L2//SQUARE
(L D2)//2X2X2(at this point i thought i was gonna get something really good, but got a 38 :/
U' R U' R' L U' L' U' R' U' B' R B R' U' R U2 R' U'//Couldnt find anything, AB4C and IF gives 34 in a million places lol. However i failed and took to much time to find the first insertion and ended up doing 4C in 14. Also I thought there had to be something better :/


help would be greatly appreciated, i really wanna avg low 30 before Indian Nationals and I know NISS, pseudoblocks, insertions
Also would you insert 3C+2TC or just leave it? i got that once(before, not on this one)


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## Duncan Bannon (Apr 29, 2018)

R' U' F L2 B U2 F U2 R2 F U2 R2 B F U F' D B' F2 R' B' U' L' R' U' F


L2 D' B *L'* - Pheudo 2x2x2 3/3
*L *U2 L U F U' - F2L-1- 1 EDGE 5/8
(B R' F' B U F B') - F2L-1 7/15
(D R2 D' F' R2 F)- EO 6/21
(D *R D'*) - F2L+EO 1/22
(*D* R' D' R' D R' D' R') - ab3c 6/28

Moves in Bold are cancelled.

IF:
L2 D' B U2 L U F [@1] U' R D R D' R D R D' F' R2 F D R2 D' B F' U' B' F R B'
Insert at @1: F' U B2 U' F U B2 U'
Fewest moves: 33. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: L2 D' B U2 L U2 B2 U' F U B2 U2 R D R D' R D R D' F' R2 F D R2 D' B F' U' B' F R B'

Sweet! Helps are appreciated!


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## NykoCuber1 (Apr 30, 2018)

2nd place tied with Mats at Elsass Open 1st is Reto with 23 ! One of the best podium ever  !:
R' U' F R D2 B2 R' F2 U2 R' B2 D2 B2 R2 D F' R2 U' F' D' F D R U2 R' U' F

( F' U2 F ) // P222 + EO (3)
L' // 222 (1)
( R' F2 D' ) // 223 (3)
R D' F2 D L D R2 D' L' R' // 3C (10)
S // L' R D' F2 D L D R2 D' L' R' D F2 R F' U2 F *ϟ*
*ϟ *F U' F' D2 F U F' D2 (-1  )
Solution : L' R D' F2 D L D R2 D' L' R' D F2 R F' U2 F2 U' F' D2 F U F' D2 
- 24 -


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## asacuber (Apr 30, 2018)

Congrats @BQ !!!
In detail recon anyone?
Edit: nvm

Scramble: R' U' F D L2 U' F2 D' U2 R2 U L2 R U' F L B' D2 R2 D U B' D' B2 R' U' F

Solution:
L (1) U2 D' F' R D//pseudo 223+EO (i think)(6/6)
R' U R' U2 R' U2 R U F2//ab3c(9/15)

(1)= L' D' R D L D' R' D//(8-4=4); 15+4=19

Final: D' R D L D' R' U2 F' R D R' U R' U2 R' U2 R U F2

Optimal insertions too 

GJ!!!


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## BQ (Apr 30, 2018)

asacuber said:


> Congrats @BQ !!!
> In detail recon anyone?
> Edit: nvm
> 
> ...



Thank you! Your recon is correct.


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## G2013 (May 1, 2018)

First official FMC attempt ever!
*32 moves.* Not too good, I've been doing lots of sub30s, but hey it's not either too bad!
Tied the NR of Chile, Iceland, Lithuania, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, South Africa (AfR), Uruguay, and Venezuela. Wut hahahhaha

Scramble R' U' F D F2 U' L2 D U' B2 U' B' L D' R D2 L' R' F R2 D2 B R' U' F


Spoiler



Inv F' U R B' D2 R2 F' R L D2 R' D L' B U B2 U D' L2 U F2 D' F' U R'

L B L' B' D //2x2
U' R B' U R B' //2x2x3
(R' B U B2 R B) //F2L-1 + EO
(U R' U2 R U' R' U R U2) //Pair -> L3C

Skeleton: L B L' B' D U' R B' U R B' U2 R' U' R U R' U2 R U' B' R' B2 @ U' B' R (26+8-2 = 32)
@: B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 D'

Final solve: L B L' B' D U' R B' U R B' U2 R' U' R U R' U2 R U' B' R' D F2 D' B2 D F2 D' U' B' R (32 HTM)


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## G2013 (May 4, 2018)

*Help me pls!* This scramble is driving me crazy!!!!!

Scramble: R' U' F L2 B L2 U2 L2 B L2 F' L B U L R2 B F2 D U' R2 U R' U' F
My skeleton:


Spoiler



D2 U' R' F U F' //2x2x2 + 2x2x1 (6/6)
B U R2 U' B' U' //F2L-1 (6/12)
R B2 R' B2 U' B U //To L4C (3 cycle + twist) (7/19)

IF gives 30 with optimal insertions...



Help me find a better continuation for that terrific 2x2x3!


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## guysensei1 (May 4, 2018)

asacuber said:


> Hey guys, i found a really good start for the weekly fmc(open spoilers only if you arent competing pls)
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



F B' L2 (L D2)//your 2x2x2 (5/5)
(R' U' R')//EO (3/8)
(U B2 D' R2 D)//pseudo F2L-1 (5/13)
U' L2 B' L2 B' L2 B2 L2 B//3C (9/22)


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## Kit Clement (May 4, 2018)

Time to move to Lithuania, I guess. 24.67 mean on official scrambles from a few weeks ago.



Spoiler: Vilnius Open 2018 Scramble 1: R' U' F R2 B2 U2 B2 F' U2 F2 U2 R2 D L B' F' D' U2 F L R' F U2 R' U' F



N: F2 B' L2 U B' //2x2x2 (5/5)
U2 L F L' F U' //2x2x3 (6/11)
L F' L2 F D' L' //F2L-1 (6/17)
D F' D F D' //L3C (5/22)

Skel: F2 B' L2 U B' U2 (1) L F L' F U' L F' L2 F D' L' D F' D F D'

1: B L F L' B' L F' L' (cancels 6)

Final: F2 B' L2 U B' U2 B L F L' B' F U' L F' L2 F D' L' D F' D F D' (24)





Spoiler: Vilnius Open 2018 Scramble 2: R' U' F U F2 L2 D F2 L2 U' F2 R' U' F D' R' D R' B D2 U B U' R' U' F



N: F2 //2 good pairs (1/1)
I: U L2 F R' F2 D2 //2x2x3 (6/7)
N: U' B2 R B2 R' B U B R' U R //L3C (11/18)

Skel: F2 U' B2 R B2 R' B U (1) B R' U R D2 F2 R F' L2 U'

1: R2 B' L' B R2 B' L B (cancels 1)

Final: F2 U' B2 R B2 R' B U R2 B' L' B R2 B' L B2 R' U R D2 F2 R F' L2 U' (25)





Spoiler: Vilnius Open 2018 Scramble 3: R' U' F U2 B2 L2 D B2 U' F2 R2 B L' U2 F' L' U R2 B' L2 F' D2 U R' U' F



N: R2 //2x2x1 (1/1)
I: F' R B //2x2x2 + pairs (3/4)
N: U2 F' U' F2 //2x2x3 (4/8)
I: L2 U' B' U' B L2 F' L F L' U //L3C (11/19)

Skel: R2 U2 F' U' F2 U' (1) L F' L' F L2 B' U B U L2 B' R' F

1: F2 L B2 L' F2 L B2 L' (cancels 2)

Final: R2 U2 F' U' F2 U' F2 L B2 L' F2 L B2 F' L' F L2 B' U B U L2 B' R' F (25)


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## Kit Clement (May 4, 2018)

G2013 said:


> *Help me pls!* This scramble is driving me crazy!!!!!
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F L2 B L2 U2 L2 B L2 F' L B U L R2 B F2 D U' R2 U R' U' F
> My skeleton:
> ...





Spoiler: Alt L4C



D2 U' R' F U F' //2x2x2 + 2x2x1 (6/6)
B U R2 U' B' U' //F2L-1 (6/12)
U' B' U B2 R B2 R' //L4C (6/18)

Only a move better than your skeleton, but it's a 27 in IF





Spoiler: L3C finish



D2 U' R' F U F' //2x2x2 + 2x2x1 (6/6)
(R2 U') //PS F2L-1.5 (2/8)
(R' B2 R B' U2) //F2L-1 (5/13)
(B' D B' D' B2 D B2 D') //L3C (8/21)

IF gives 26 on this one


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## xyzzy (May 4, 2018)

Forum weekly comp (2018-18)



Spoiler



Solution I submitted was a 29 because I'm a scrub and didn't see the amazing 16-move ab3e skeleton. (Why did I go back and play with the scramble even though I've submitted my solution? I have finals to study for…)

Scramble: R' U' F D F' B' D2 F R L' F D B' R L2 D2 R2 D2 F2 U2 F2 B' R2 B' D2 R' U' F

All on inverse:
F' B U L' // EO (4/4)
B2 F @ D' // 222 (3/7)
B F' U F' B' R2 // 223 (6/13)
F2 U2 F' // ab3e (3/16)
@ = F2 L2 D' L2 F2 R2 U' R2 // 3-cycle (8-1/23)
Solution: F U2 F2 R2 B F U' F B' D R2 U R2 F2 L2 D L2 F B2 L U' F B'

Looks like the three people who had 24-move solutions had the same start, although our 223 solutions were very slightly different; I split up the F2 move to form the red-blue-yellow square so as to get an extra square solved.

Also found a 23-move skeleton; optimal insertion would give 28.
U2 F B R' // EO (4/4)
U L2 D2 R2 U2 // 222 (5/9)
(F' D2) F2 D // 223 (4/13)
(D' F D) // pseudoF2L-1 (3-1/15)
R F2 R F' R' F' R F // F2L; ab3c (8/23)

EO-first rarely works out for me because I suck at EO blockbuilding, but I really should've tried it for this scramble. Oh well.


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## G2013 (May 4, 2018)

Kit Clement said:


> That F2L-1 was key
> 
> 
> Spoiler: L3C finish
> ...



Thanks Kit for that


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## asacuber (May 5, 2018)

Here's another example of an amazing start (but i couldnt find anything):

R' U' F L' B' U F' B' U2 D B D2 L R2 F R2 F D2 B2 U2 L2 F' L2 B' R' U' F

L' D U2 F2 L F2 L'//Not very convincing... 2x2x2
R2 U R U2 R2 B'//um lolwut, 12 move f2l-1, 3 move pair, 15 move f2l(doesnt lead to anything nice)
Couldnt find anything, found 24 moves to L4C but wasnt cancelling much :/
the final solution was 35 :/
E: IF gives a 29 for my skelly xD


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## porkynator (May 5, 2018)

asacuber said:


> Here's another example of an amazing start (but i couldnt find anything):
> 
> R' U' F L' B' U F' B' U2 D B D2 L R2 F R2 F D2 B2 U2 L2 F' L2 B' R' U' F
> 
> ...



A decent continuation:
B U B' //EO (1/14) (two moves cancel)
U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U //2c twisted (9/23)

Not great, but better than L4C in 24, and it was quite easy to spot.


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## xyzzy (May 5, 2018)

asacuber said:


> Here's another example of an amazing start (but i couldnt find anything):
> 
> R' U' F L' B' U F' B' U2 D B D2 L R2 F R2 F D2 B2 U2 L2 F' L2 B' R' U' F
> 
> ...



L' D U2 F2 L F2 L' // 222 (7/7)
R2 U R U2 R2 *U* B' // F2L-1 + EO (7/14)
U2 R' U' R U R' U' R @ U // ab2c (9/23)
@ = [R F' D2 F R', U2] // corner twist insertion (12-2/33)

Probably can find a better insertion by doing 3-cycles, but :eff. Finishing the last few edges in the obvious way (U R' U R) leaves a bad ab5c case.


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## asacuber (May 6, 2018)

thanks @xyzzy and @porkynator 

e: Did my first AB4C insertion! Cancelled only 2 tho, got a 37 and IF gave a 33... meh(for the weekly fmc)
THE ROAD TO SUB 30 IS ON!


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## guysensei1 (May 7, 2018)

Dadams weekly, 23

Havent got a sub-24 single in over a year

Scramble: D' F' L2 R' F U R' B L' U R D' L B2 U2 R2 D' U R' L



Spoiler



(D' R)//EO (2/2)
U' R2//square (2/4)
B' D' F' D' F'//2x2x3 (5/9)
(U B)//F2L-1 (2/11)
U2 F' B2 D L2 D' F B2//3C (8-1/19-1)

U' R2 B' D' F' D' F' U2 F' B2 D L2 D' F * B U' R' D
*=D' B U2 B' D B U2 B' (8-3/26-3)

Final: U' R2 B' D' F' D' F' U2 F' B2 D L2 D' F D' B U2 B' D B U R' D (23)


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## asacuber (May 21, 2018)

weekly comp(forum):



Spoiler



R' U' F R L' F2 D F' U2 B' L F U D2 B2 L2 B L2 U2 F R2 D2 L2 F R' U' F

(R' U' B D' F')//222(5/5) 
U L2 B L'//223(4/9 ) 
B' R' U' R//EO(4/13) 
B' U2 B U2//F2L-1(4/17), what i overlooked on the normal :/ 
B2 U' B U//(4/21)F2L, at this point I had like 9-10 mins left so i didnt have time to niss anywhere here or on the LL 
L U B' U' B U B2 U' B' L' R' U' B' U B R B' F' D B' U R//ZBLL (17/38 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)



Tips would really be appreciated, nats is coming in like 4 days and im aiming for sub 35 mean 
Any *specific* tips for time management?


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## Fazito (May 21, 2018)

the ZHBIT Open 2018, 23f
scramble: R' U' F L2 U' F2 D2 U' R2 F2 L2 B F2 L2 U' F U2 B R D' F D' U2 R' U' F


Spoiler: 23f



skeleton:
222 （B' R2 U' D2 R'）//（5/5）
223 （U R' U' R）//（4/9）
L5C （F' L2 F L2 U）//（5/14）
insertion:
U' L2 * F' L2 F R' U R U' R # U D2 R2 B
*:L' F' R2 F L F' R2 F
#:R ' U2 R D' R' U2 R D
solution:
U' L F' R2 F L F' R2 L2 F R' U R U R D' R' U2 R D' U R2 B


But I still cannot get a mo3.. QAQ


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## asacuber (May 22, 2018)

Spoiler: another fmc attempt



R' U' F D2 F' D2 R2 B2 D2 F U2 F D2 F L D F' L B' D2 L' B U2 R' U' F

Here's what I actually did:
D2 L F L//222
U F2 U2 L F2 L'//223
U F U'//EO
F' R' F R2//F2L-1
NISS
D B' D' F' D B D' R' F' R F//AB3C(could've been AB5C but im like really slow lol so put a comm)
Couldn't find a good insertion, had to be happy w/ 36. IF gives 34(which i was almost going to find but i thought it wouldn't cancel anything rip)

I wasn't very impressed with this, because I found these:

After 2x2
R F D R2 D'//makes better 2x2x3+edge, couldnt find anything good after this :///

or 
(F' D R' D')//ps223
from here you can apply the premove or do:
F R//edge before premove


pls halp


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## thecubingwizard (May 22, 2018)

asacuber said:


> Spoiler: another fmc attempt
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: Quick Fix



I think your solution up through EO is pretty good. But after EO, you added 15 moves to get to 3 corners. You may have missed this, but the continuation to all edges solved works nicely like this:

D2 L F L//222
U F2 U2 L F2 L'//223
U F U'//EO
*F2 R' F2 R2 F' // AB4C
*
IF gives a 29, which is pretty meh for 18 to 4c. My general advice would be to not necessarily have a plan going into FMC. I used to be very linear in the way I thought of each solution. So what I mean is that after 2x2x3+EO, you don't necessarily have to go to an F2L-1. Maybe experiment with solving the edges and it may give you way less moves, even if it gives you AB6C. Hope this helped a bit.


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## asacuber (May 23, 2018)

thecubingwizard said:


> Spoiler: Quick Fix
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thx! Yes, I've never really tried solving the edges by themselves, I always just go for an F2L-1 or solve random blocks.
I'll incorporate them into my solves(whenever needed) from now on!


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## DGraciaRubik (May 26, 2018)

Hey, so I'm reaaaaally noob (I just know NISS as a technique and comms) but I wanted to show you guys something and see if you could come up with something



Spoiler: An Attempt I did today



Scramble: L2 D2 U2 F2 U2 F D2 F' R2 F U2 L' U' L' B D B2 F'

So I started on Inverse Scramble: 
D' R2 U R2 U' // X-Cross

Then back to normal: 
D2 F D F’ D2 R’ D R2 D’ R’ // F2L-1 in 15 moves, not great, not bad for me
D2 L D L’ F’ D F // I solved the remaining edges and oriented the corners (not intendendly)

So it's L5C in 22 moves which is not incredibly bad for me. But the only thing I found in time was this:
R’ B’ R F2 R’ B R’ B’ L’ B R2 B’ L B F2 D // 16 moves for L5C which I guess it's not great

38 moves is not terrible for me, PB is 34

Any ideas on what to do after F2L-1 or how to improve those L5C?


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## theos (May 26, 2018)

DGraciaRubik said:


> Hey, so I'm reaaaaally noob (I just know NISS as a technique and comms) but I wanted to show you guys something and see if you could come up with something
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Since you already know commutators, the main way to improve last corners is with insertions, inserting the corner commutators within the solve to cancel moves. Insertion finder says you can finish your solve (after a D move to AUF) with two 8-move commutators cancelling 4 moves for a total of 35 moves.

I found a slightly shorter step to solve the remaining edges from your F2L-1. Here's the full solve with insertions.



Spoiler: Scramble: L2 D2 U2 F2 U2 F D2 F' R2 F U2 L' U' L' B D B2 F'



(D' R2 U R2 U') // (5/5) X-Cross, given
D2 F * D F' D2 R' D R2 D' R' // (10/15) F2L-1, given
D' F L' F' L D2 // (6/21) AB5C
Insert at *: L' @ U L D L' U' L D' // (6/27) Solves 2 corners
Insert at @: B U' F U B' U' F' U // (7/34) Solves remaining 3 corners

Solution: D2 F L' B U' F U B' U' F' U2 L D L' U' L F' D2 R' D R2 D' R' D' F L' F' L D2 U R2 U' R2 D (34 moves)


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## Lucas Wesche (May 30, 2018)

I got a bit stuck at this scramble: 
D' F2 U2 R2 B2 U' L2 F2 L2 U L2 F' D F' D L D' L F' L U'

I found a few promising starts but really struggled to find a sub 30 solution. Now I have 29 but does anyone have a better suggestion for the solution?​


Spoiler



Scramble: D' F2 U2 R2 B2 U' L2 F2 L2 U L2 F' D F' D L D' L F' L U'

B2 U' D F2 D' // 2x2x2 (5/5)
R2 F' U' R' F U' R // F2L-2 + set up one pair (7/12)
B U B' U' // ab5c3e (4/16)

B2 U' D F2 D' R2 @ F' U' R' F U' R B U B' U'
first insertion at @: R' F' L F R F' L' F

B2 U' D F2 D' R F' L F R F' @ L' U' R' F U' R B U B' U'
second insertion at @: F' L' U' R' D' F D R U L

B2 U' D F2 D' R F' L F R F2 L' U' R' D' F D F @ U' R B U B' U'
third insertion at @: F' D B' D' F D B D'

final solution: B2 U' D F2 D' R F' L F R F2 L' U' R' D' F D2 B' D' F D B D' U' R B U B' U' (29)


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## theos (May 30, 2018)

Lucas Wesche said:


> I got a bit stuck at this scramble:
> D' F2 U2 R2 B2 U' L2 F2 L2 U L2 F' D F' D L D' L F' L U'
> 
> I found a few promising starts but really struggled to find a sub 30 solution. Now I have 29 but does anyone have a better suggestion for the solution?​
> ...



Scramble: D' F2 U2 R2 B2 U' L2 F2 L2 U L2 F' D F' D L D' L F' L U'

L2 U L2 D L' // pseudo-2x2x3 (5/5)
(D2 R' D) // 2x2x3+EO (3/8)
(B' R' B2 R' B) // F2L-1 (5/13)
(R B R2 B' * R) // AB3C (5/18)
Insert at *: (B' L' B R' B' L B R) // (6/24)

Solution: L2 U L2 D L' R2 B' L' B R B' L B2 R2 B' R' B' R B2 R B D' R D2 (24 moves)


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## asacuber (May 31, 2018)

Came 2nd at nats w/ 32.67 mean and 30 single!!! 
PB single before this was 33 lol


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## G2013 (Jun 3, 2018)

Marcos Masini official 23 reco + My official 29 with the same start
Sc: R' U' F D2 R2 D2 R B2 R2 F2 D2 L' U' F2 R' U2 B' D F' D R U2 R2 F R' U' F
Inv: F' U R F' R2 U2 R' D' F D' B U2 R F2 U L D2 F2 R2 B2 R' D2 R2 D2 F' U R

Marcos' 23


Spoiler



(L' F2 L' U2) //2x2
F2 D' //2x2x1
R' U' R2 U F2 //F2L-1
B' D' B R D R' D2 //L3C in 18

Final solution: F2 D' R' U' R2 U (U' R D R' U R D' R') F2 B' D' B R D R' D2 U2 L F2 L (18+8-3 = 23)



My 29


Spoiler



(L' F2 L' U2) //2x2
F2 D' //2x2x1
R' F2 //F2L-1
D2 F' D2 F R //Pseudo tripod? Basically just trying random stuff.
(D' R) //F2L-1 -> 7 moves and it's still F2L-1! That was pretty stupid but still gave a L3C in 22, meh 
(D L D' L') //EO
(F' D' F) //L3C in 22

Final solution: F2 D' R' F2 (R' U' R D R' U R D') D2 F' D2 F R F' D F L D L' D' R' D U2 L F2 L (22+8-1 = 29) (optimal @ gives 28)



Some things to note: former NR was 30, and in this comp 4 attempts tied or beat that XD
Julián Schaffhauser got DNF 30 27, twice NR
Marcos got DNF 37 23 (wut), taking the NR
I got 35 31 29, not NR or anything  Missed mo3 NR by 0.33 hahaha


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## asacuber (Jun 4, 2018)

So wcadb has messed up stuff for the fmc scrambles at indian nats 2018
1- correct
2- on this attempt, a competitor got scr.3 and didnt notice. at the 3rd attempt he noticed that he'd again got the third scramble, and we had to do a reattempt for the 3rd(luckily we were informed of this midway of the '3rd attempt'). I'm very sure that the scramble that that competitor got for the 2nd and attempt has been printed. So basically everyone did one scramble and he did another.
3- extra scramble, correct
(PS: Don't worry this was approved by the wca lol)

Whatever, I'll reconstruct my 30 anyway:
Actual Scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 R2 U2 B' R2 D2 R2 U2 L' F2 R' D2 B2 U B D' F L' F R' U' F



Spoiler



L// Pair 1/1
B' D B' D2 L//222 5/6
(D' B R B2 D2 B)//223+Edge 6/12
(F R' F R)//F2L-1 4/16
(F' R F' R' F2 R F2 R')//AB3E 8/24

At this point I had around 10-15 mins left and decided just to do the 10 move 3-cycle. But then I realised I could check the end of the skeleton for a lucky case.

Skeleton: L B' D B' D2 L R F2 R' F2 R F R' F R' F' R F' B' D2 B2 R' B' D *

Insert at *: R L' F2 R' L D2 (6-0=6)(24+6=30)

Solution: L B' D B' D2 L R F2 R' F2 R F R' F R' F' R F' B' D2 B2 R' B' D R L' F2 R' L D2 (30)


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## cubeshepherd (Jun 4, 2018)

At last! I finally got my first sub 30 FMC solution. I am really happy with this solution, especially since I was able to get to AB4C in just 21 moves. The scramble was from the Weekly Berkley FMC, so in case anyone is going to do it, I put it all in spoilers. I got this yesterday, but forgot to post it in this thread. 
Also, I do not know if there is anything that you see that I should have thought about with this solution, but if you have any thoughts, I would be more the happy to hear them.




Spoiler: 29 move FMC Solution



Scramble: F L' R' F2 U2 L' F D2 R' U2 B' D F' B L U' D B' U2 F'

F B R2 D R' U2 R2 U'//2X2X2 [8/8]
B' L D B L'//F2L-1 [5/13]
D' B' D B2 R' B' R D //AB4C [8/21]

1st Skeleton: F B R2 D R' & U2 R2 U' B' L D B L' D' B' D B2 R' B' R D [21 moves]
Insert at &: R' D' R U2 R' D R U2 [cancels 4 moves]

2nd Skeleton: F B R2 D R2 D' R U2 R' D R' $ U' B' L D B L' D' B' D B2 R' B' R D
Insert at $: R U' L' U R' U' L U [cancels 4 moves]

Final solution:
F B R2 D R2 D' R U2 R' D U' L' U R' U' L B' L D B L' D' B' D B2 R' B' R D [29 moves]


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## theos (Jun 4, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> At last! I finally got my first sub 30 FMC solution. I am really happy with this solution, especially since I was able to get to AB4C in just 21 moves. The scramble was from the Weekly Berkley FMC, so in case anyone is going to do it, I put it all in spoilers. I got this yesterday, but forgot to post it in this thread.
> Also, I do not know if there is anything that you see that I should have thought about with this solution, but if you have any thoughts, I would be more the happy to hear them.
> 
> 
> ...



Nice one - keep it up!

With your start I can get a slightly shorter skeleton (with the same number of unsolved corners) but the insertions are actually worse.



Spoiler: 30 moves



Scramble: F L' R' F2 U2 L' F D2 R' U2 B' D F' B L U' D B' U2 F'

F B R2 D R' U2 @ R2 U' // XCross given [8/8]
B' L D B L' // F2L-1 given [5/13]
R' * B R B2 D' B D2 // AB4C [7/20]
Insert at *: R' F' R B R' F R B' // 1 corner, from IF [4/24]
Insert at @: D' L2 D R2 D' L2 D R2 // last 3 corners, from IF [6/30]

Solution: F B R2 D R' U2 D' L2 D R2 D' L2 D U' B' L D B L' R2 F' R B R' F R2 B2 D' B D2 (30 moves)


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## cubeshepherd (Jun 4, 2018)

theos said:


> Nice one - keep it up!
> 
> With your start I can get a slightly shorter skeleton (with the same number of unsolved corners) but the insertions are actually worse.
> 
> ...


Thank you @theos for looking at this and for the different solution. I really like to see others opinions when it comes to FMC and it helps me think about different things and to also pay attention to different things next time or just in general for the future. Thank you again for your solution.


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## SpeedCubeReview (Jun 6, 2018)

What does the AB mean in AB4C?


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## cubeshepherd (Jun 6, 2018)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> What does the AB mean in AB4C?


"All but" so when you see AB3C it is just a short way of saying "All But 3 Corners are solved".


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## theos (Jun 6, 2018)

Really nice scramble I got in practice:
R' U' F B U2 L2 B F2 R2 D2 F R2 U R B' F' D2 L2 D L F2 U R' U' F

Lots of potential from the start and everything seemed to work out so neatly to end with a 3 corner skeleton.


Spoiler: 25 moves



pseudo-2x2x2: L' F R2 B [4/4]
pseudo-2x2x3: (B' L D' L) [4/8]
2x2x3+EO: F' L [2/10]
F2L-1: F * D2 F2 [3/13]
AB3C: F D2 F' D F D' F' [6/19]
Insert corners at *: F' D2 F U F' D2 F U' [6/25]

Solution: L' F R2 B F' L D2 F U F' D2 F U' D2 F' D2 F' D F D' F' L' D L' B (25 moves)


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## asacuber (Jun 16, 2018)

Tarnby cube traef scramble 2 seems to have something good. Everyone is getting pbs and best solves on it


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## cubeshepherd (Jun 16, 2018)

asacuber said:


> Tarnby cube traef scramble 2 seems to have something good. Everyone is getting pbs and best solves on it


I agree, and I hope/think it would be nice to see the scramble, if someone is able to post it in a few day.


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## arquillian (Jun 18, 2018)

I'm one of the people who got a PB on the second scramble at Tarnby, so here:
Scramble: R' U' F R2 D B2 D L2 F2 U' L2 R2 U L' B D' U F D B2 F2 D R' U' F
Inv Scr: F' U R D' F2 B2 D' F' U' D B' L U' R2 L2 U F2 L2 D' B2 D' R2 F' U R
On inverse:
L' F L B //2x2x1 4/4
R D R D2 L D //2x2x3 6/10
U2 R U2 R' U' //F2L-1 5/15
F' R' F R2 U' R' U F' //A3C 8/23

Skeleton (23): F U' R U R2 F' R F U R U2 R' U2 * D' L' D2 R' D' R' B' L' F' L
Insert at *: L' U L D' L' U' L D - 4 moves cancelled (IF says this is optimal)

Final solution (27): F U' R U R2 F' R F U R U2 R' U2 L' U L D' L' U' D2 R' D' R' B' L' F' L
This was the fourth best solution on this scramble, after Jakob (23) and the Egdal brothers (both 26).

I tied my official PB on the first attempt with a 39. This beat that by 12 moves. I don't really do FMC, was kinda speechless. Sadly, I DNFed the mean (only needed to sub 67 to beat official PB mean) because I'm an idiot who doesn't understand NISS properly.


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## Sue Doenim (Jun 19, 2018)

This past weekly competition (week 24), I was pretty happy with my FMC attempt. I got a 31, and got my first podium, 3rd, on anything in the weekly competitions. The only part of the solve where I was a bit disappointed was in my insertion. Checking insertion finder, it showed better results, but with weird commutators I don't quite understand. Can anyone help explain them to me?


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F D2 L' F L' B' L' D2 B2 U L2 F U2 B2 R2 F U2 B U2 B2 R' U' F

My insertion was only three edges, but for the sake of brevity, I'll use the one skeleton and show all three insertions solving the same case in it.

Skeleton: B' U F' D2 B' L' D L' R D' L (1) D R' (2) D L D' B2 (3) R' (4) B U R2 F

1 (mine):
B' U2 D2 F D' F' U2 D2 B D
Cancels 1
Simple commutator, [B E2 B', D']

2:
R D R' B' L' F' D' F L B
Cancels 3
I think this is just a non-commutator 3-cycle, so I'm not mad I missed it.

3:
F' B U' R' U F B' R' D R
Cancels 3
This one I don't get. It boils down to [S, R' D' R], but i just can't make sense of it. I don't see the insert/interchange I recognize commutators by. Logically, S seems to be the interchange, and R' D' R the insert, but they "cross axes," as best as I can explain it.

4:
R F' B U' R' U F B' R' D
Cancels 3
This one is the same sort of thing, only this time it's [R: S, R' D' R], which, now that I think of it, is just the exact same thing as the last one.

Mostly I just want an explanation of the third one, I guess.


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## FastCubeMaster (Jun 19, 2018)

Any ideas for continuing from:

Scramble: R' U' F L2 D' U2 F2 L2 D B2 L2 U2 F2 L2 B R2 F L' U2 L2 R' B' U2 B2 R' U' F

L2 D R2 F' L2 R' B' R B2 R D' R' D R' B D B2 //F2L-1 (17 moves)

Getting started in FMC (because of mental breakdown comp) and couldn't continue that scramble very well.


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## obelisk477 (Jun 19, 2018)

FastCubeMaster said:


> Any ideas for continuing from:
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F L2 D' U2 F2 L2 D B2 L2 U2 F2 L2 B R2 F L' U2 L2 R' B' U2 B2 R' U' F
> 
> ...



x2 y2 F R U R' U' F' y2 U2 F' U F

That leaves 3 twisted corners, and you could insert 2 comms for that for a total of 33 moves (via insertion finder). 

TBH, 17 to F2L-1 isn't great, especially since you don't have full EO, so I would try to find a better start.


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## porkynator (Jun 24, 2018)

My 25 from Veenendaal Open 2018



Spoiler



Scramble (inverse solution): B D2 R' L F L' D2 F' R' F L F' R F D2 L D2 L F2 L2 R2 U' R' L' U

Inverse:
B D2 R' L F //EO + square (5/5)
D2 L F2 //Line + another square (3/8)
L2 R2 U' R' //Pseudo F2L (4/12)

From here I have first switched to normal and got this backup 27:

L U' L' U2 L //F2L (5/17)
R2 D' L F2 L' D R U2 R U //LL (10/27)

But there are many possibilities. For example (on inverse):

L' U' //All but 2 edges and 4 corners (2/14)

But I didn't like this one.

* L' //3E5C (1/13)

was better. With

* = B' U' R U2 L' U L U2 R' B //Pair 3-cycle (10/23)

I got to 3 corners in 23, but there was no good insertion (even if so, I had little chances of doing better than 27).

In the end I have found this:

L' U //4E4C (2/14)

Skeleton: B D2 R' L F * D2 L F2 L2 R2 U' R' L' U

* = L' D2 + L D2 L //Conjugate and solve edges (leave 3C) (5/19)
+ = F' R' F L F' R F L' //(6/25)

You can also see the inserted part as a whole as a "conjugate and solve":

* = [L' D2 F' R' F, L] = L' D2 F' R' F L F' R F D2 L


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## guysensei1 (Jun 28, 2018)

Building blocks incompatible with your EO isn't always bad...

R' U' F R L2 U' R2 B2 D2 F2 U2 F2 U F2 B L2 B2 U B D' R D' F R' U' F

F U2 D' R//EO (4/4)
(L2 D)//2x2x2 (2/6)
B' R2 B2 U2 B U' B2 U//F2L on the wrong axis (8/14)
F2 U2 B U B' U2 F U' F//LL (9/23)


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## alexela (Jul 1, 2018)

FMC, method ROUX (Week 182): 22 STM (26 HTM)
B' L2 B2 D L2 R2 U R2 U B2 L2 U' L' D B U2 L U2 F2 L2 D2

y' z //Inspection
u' S2 //Pseudo FB (2/2)
M2 U' r2 //Pseudo SS (3/5)
U2 M2 U //Pseudo SB (3/8)
R2 U B U' B' R' //NMCLL (6/14)
U M' U //EO+LR (3/17)
R2 U2 l2 U2 R //The Rest of the Cube (5/22)

Solution: F' U2 D2 R2 L2 B' L2 F2 R2 L2 B R2 B D B' D' R' B R' L U R2 U2 R2 D2 R (26 moves)


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 1, 2018)

During fewest moves event... can you manipulate the cube to test your solution or to try our move sequences?


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## Duncan Bannon (Jul 1, 2018)

@SpartanSailor If I understand you right, that is completely legal.


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## DGCubes (Jul 1, 2018)

SpartanSailor said:


> During fewest moves event... can you manipulate the cube to test your solution or to try our move sequences?



Yes, you can. You are allowed to bring 3 cubes, and you can do just about whatever you want with them for the full hour. The relevant section of the regulations is Article E.


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## ChrisCuber123 (Jul 2, 2018)

solutions from my 26.67 mean at Maryland 2018 yesterday
scrambles (generated with cube explorer):
1. U' B2 L' D R2 U' B' U2 R' F' D' L' F2 B2 U D2 F2 U' D2 F2
2. U L' F' D2 R L' U B2 D L F B2 L2 U2 D2 F2 B U2 F L2
3. F R F D2 B2 L B L2 D R L D2 L' F2 R' U2 B2 L2 F2 R2

solutions:


Spoiler



F' (R U L2 F) // EO
(B2 L D' R') // 2x2x2
U' R U' R' U L' U L // good 6c
skeleton: F' U' R U' R' U L' U L R D L' B2 F' * L2 U' R'
*: F ^ R F' L' F R' F' L (cancels 3)
^: B R F' R' B' R F R' (cancels 5 lmoa) 
final solution: F' U' R U' R' U L' U L R D L' B' R F' R' B' R L' F R' F' L' U' R' (25)





Spoiler



U' L2 U2 L // EO+square
(U' R2 U2 F U2 B2) // 2x2x3
(B D' B' L2 D2 L2) // bad 6c
at this point I tried to find a comm that canceled 6-8 moves and reduced the skeleton to 4/5c and found this:
skeleton: U' L2 U2 L' D2 L2 B D B * U2 F' U2 R2 U
*: B' D' B U2 B' D B U2 (cancels 7, 15 to 5c)
5c skeleton (here come the shitty insertions): U' L2 U2 L' D2 L2 B2 U2 ^ B' * D B F' U2 R2 U
*: B R B' L2 B R' B' L2 (cancels 2)
^: U' B U F2 U' B' U F2 (cancels 1)
final solution: U' L2 U2 L' D2 L2 B2 U B U F2 U' B' U F2 R B' L2 B R' B' L2 D B F' U2 R2 U (28)
optimal for this skeleton was 27, 1 cancel nesting a 3 cancel





Spoiler



(U2 F2 D2 B) // EO
(D2 U R') // 2x2x2
(F2 L2 D L) // 2x2x3
(F2 L D L' D' R' D R D R' D' R) // L3C
(R' D L2 D' R D L2 D') // comm, cancels 4
final solution: D L2 D' R' D L2 R D' R' D' R D L D' L' F2 L' D' L2 F2 R U' D2 B' D2 F2 U2 (27)

Ryan DeLine's 24:
D F2 D' F2 D // 2x2x2
U * R B2 U B // 6e3c (lol)
*: U' R B2 U // solve stuff
B' D' R' D R B R2 // L3C in 18 (more lol)
insertion cancels 2


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## Neuro (Jul 2, 2018)

So I got this scramble and was able to get to EO2x2x3 pretty easily but I’m not entirely sure how to end the solve. Suggestions?

B’ F D2 U2 L2 F’ U2 F U’ B R U’ L’ R’ B’ U2 B2 D’ B

R’ B2 D’ L’ D’ R2 U’ L2 U2 L’

I did find L5C redux in 5 moves but I don’t really like L5C lol

B2 U B2 U B’


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 2, 2018)

DGCubes said:


> Yes, you can. You are allowed to bring 3 cubes, and you can do just about whatever you want with them for the full hour. The relevant section of the regulations is Article E.


So you are permitted to test your solution or move count by manipulating one of the 3 self-supplied cubes. 

Interesting. Thanks!


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## Duncan Bannon (Jul 2, 2018)

@Neuro I'm definitely not great at FMC. But you could get an Ab3c in 24 moves by doing B2 U B2 U' B' U' B U2 B' U2 B U' B' U2


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## ChrisCuber123 (Jul 2, 2018)

Neuro said:


> I don’t really like L5C lol



Good luck getting better at FMC then.

Just do the 15 moves to L5C, that's a pretty good skeleton and optimal insertions should give around a 26

EDIT: Just checked Insertion Finder and optimal for your skeleton is 23, insertions cancel 5 and 3


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## BenBergen (Jul 4, 2018)

Just dropped my PB from 28 to 22 with this:

R' U' F R2 B' U2 F2 L2 B' R2 F' D2 F R2 U B2 R' F R' U2 F D B' R' U' F



Spoiler: Solution



U L2 F2 D2 // 2x2x2
B2 U' F * U' F' U // pseudo F2L-1 (premove L2)
B2 L B2 L' B' // AB5C
L2 // correct premove

At * - B2 U' F' ** U B2 U' F U (cancels 8 )

At ** - F' D F U' F' D' F U (cancels 2)



AB5C in 16 moves, then some ridiculous insertions


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## DGCubes (Jul 4, 2018)

Just got a pretty cool solution with some reverse NISS and lucky insertions.

Scramble: R' U' F R F2 D2 L R U2 L D2 B2 R D2 B F' L' U B' L2 R U' F L2 R' U' F



Spoiler: solution



B' U2 B L2 F // pseudo 2x2x2
B L2 // pseudo 2x2x3 - 1 edge
(F' U' L2 U) // 2x2x3
(D2) // 1x2x2 block
(B2 R D' R' B' D2) // AB3E and twisted 3C

Skeleton (18 to 3E and twisted 3C): B' U2 B L2 F B L2 D2 B * R D R' B2 D2 U' L2 U F
* = B R' B' R (cancels 2)

New skeleton (20 to 4C): B' U2 B L2 F @ B L2 D2 B2 R' B' $ R2 D R' B2 D2 U' L2 U F
@ = R2 B L2 B' R2 B L2 B' (cancels 4)
$ = D L D' R2 D L' D' R2 (cancels 4 again!)

Solution (28): B' U2 B L2 F R2 B L2 B' R2 B D2 B2 R' B' D L D' R2 D L' R' B2 D2 U' L2 U F


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## bubbagrub (Jul 4, 2018)

DGCubes said:


> Just got a pretty cool solution with some reverse NISS and lucky insertions.
> [/SPOILER]



Nice solve! I'm probably being dense, but isn't this just normal NISS rather than reverse NISS...?


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## DGCubes (Jul 5, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Nice solve! I'm probably being dense, but isn't this just normal NISS rather than reverse NISS...?



Thanks! And yeah, there's regular NISS in the first skeleton, but the B R' B' R insertion is reverse NISS.


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## DGCubes (Jul 6, 2018)

I got another really nice solution with reverse NISS! It's such a cool concept; I used it in 3 of my last 5 solves since I found out about it. 

Scramble: R' U' F B2 L D2 L' B2 F2 R2 F2 R' U2 L U' F R2 B F' R' F' U2 F2 L R' U' F



Spoiler: solution



L' B' // 1x2x2
(L D2) // 2x2x2
(R2 U2 R U R2) // 2x2x3
(L F' L') // pseudo F2L-1
F U' // AB4E5C

Skeleton (14 to 4E5C): L' B' F * U' L F L' R2 U' R' U2 R2 D2 L'
* = F U2 F' // solve an edge
L U F U' F' L' U // solve L3E + 1 corner
(cancels 7)

New skeleton (17 to 4C): L' B' F2 U2 F' L U F $ U' L' R2 U' R' U2 @ R2 D2 L'
$ = F' D F U' F' D' F U (cancels 4)
@ = U L U' R' U L' U' R (cancels 2)

Solution (27): L' B' F2 U2 F' L U D F U' F' D' F L' R2 U' R' U' L U' R' U L' U' R' D2 L'


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## BQ (Jul 6, 2018)

DGCubes said:


> Just got a pretty cool solution with some reverse NISS and lucky insertions.
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F R F2 D2 L R U2 L D2 B2 R D2 B F' L' U B' L2 R U' F L2 R' U' F
> 
> ...


Did you try to insert a sune or anti-sune or fat-sune?


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## DGCubes (Jul 6, 2018)

BQ said:


> Did you try to insert a sune or anti-sune or fat-sune?



I didn't try that in this one, I just went with a sledge to solve L3E. That's really smart though, especially considering the twisted 3C.

The best I could find was B2 L B L' B L B2 L' at the same spot which leads to 3E in 25 moves, with a 32 move optimal solution. There are probably better places to insert it though, so definitely something I'll keep in mind for future attempts. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## BQ (Jul 6, 2018)

In the same spot, you can insert this:
setup: B' L' Bw'
fat-sune: Bw L B' L B L2 Bw' L2
reverse: Bw L B
2*3 moves setup + 8 moves fat-sune - 6 moves cancellation = 8 moves to solve the 3E3C


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## BQ (Jul 6, 2018)

DGCubes said:


> I didn't try that in this one, I just went with a sledge to solve L3E. That's really smart though, especially considering the twisted 3C.
> 
> The best I could find was B2 L B L' B L B2 L' at the same spot which leads to 3E in 25 moves, with a 32 move optimal solution. There are probably better places to insert it though, so definitely something I'll keep in mind for future attempts. Thanks for the suggestion!


See the above insertion.


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## DGCubes (Jul 6, 2018)

BQ said:


> In the same spot, you can insert this:
> setup: B' L' Bw'
> fat-sune: Bw L B' L B L2 Bw' L2
> reverse: Bw L B
> 2*3 moves setup + 8 moves fat-sune - 6 moves cancellation = 8 moves to solve the 3E3C



Ooh, very cool. I think it should be D2 instead of L2 at the end of the fat sune though.


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## BQ (Jul 6, 2018)

DGCubes said:


> Ooh, very cool. I think it should be D2 instead of L2 at the end of the fat sune though.


It's L2 because I wrote Bw instead of F.


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## Cale S (Jul 8, 2018)

27.33 official mean, first place in round 1 of Mental Breakdown MN


Spoiler: 27



1. R' U' F D2 R2 U F2 D' U2 B2 D R' B2 D' L2 R' U2 B2 R2 B U R' U' F

(D2 L' F2) // 1x2x3
(B D R') B' L2 // 2x2x3
U2 B2 U L U2 L' U' B // 16 to 3e3c

B' L2 U2 B2 U L U2 L' U' B @ R D' ^ B' F2 L D2
@ = B' U' B U F' B L' B' L F
^ = [D, R' U R]

Solution: B' L2 U2 B2 U L U2 L' U2 B U F' B L' B' L F U R D' R' U' R B' F2 L D2 (27)





Spoiler: 25



2. R' U' F U2 L2 R2 B2 D U B2 D' B' L' F R2 B' R2 D' L B2 R F' R' U' F

B U2 R2 U' // EO + square
(L F' L' R2) // stuff
(D2 B R' B R B D2 B') // 16 to 3e3c (again!)

B ^ U2 R2 U' B D2 B' R' B' R B' D2 R2 L F L'
^ = F' L2 F' R' B D2 B' R F2 // nice inserted ZBLL

Solution: B F' L2 F' R' B D2 B' R F2 U2 R2 U' B D2 B' R' B' R B' D2 R2 L F L' (25)





Spoiler: 30



3. R' U' F D2 F2 L2 U R2 B2 F2 U2 B' F' D B2 U L' U F D' U2 L U R' U' F

(D2) // pear
(L R D' F' R') // 2x2x2
(U2 L2 U) U' // 2x2x3
(L' D F D' L2) // F2L - 1
(F' D F2 D2 L D L' F) // 23 to 3e

U' F' L D' L' D2 F2 D' F @ L2 D F' D' L U' L2 U2 R F D R' L' D2
@ = F' U D' L D L' U' D F D'

Solution: U' F' L D' L' D2 F2 D2 U L D L' U' D F D' L2 D F' D' L U' L2 U2 R F D R' L' D2 (30)


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## cubeshepherd (Jul 8, 2018)

Yes! I just got a new single PB for FMC, and it is 26 moves I got it for the weekly competition, and I have to say that I wish all scrambles were like this one I really like the fact that I was able to get to AB4C3E in 19 moves and the fact that I was able to cancel 9 moves in 2 out of the 3 insertions. I just wish that my 2nd insertion was better, but all in all it is a good solve for me.


Spoiler: 26 FMC Solution



Scramble: R' U' F D2 B2 R2 D2 B U2 B' D2 U2 B' D2 R B R U' L D2 L R' F L' R' U' F

R' L U F D L' F2 L B L2 - 2x2x3 [10/10]
R' F U F R F' R' U' R2 - AB4C3E [9/19]

1st Skeleton - R' L U F D $ L' F2 L B L2 R' F U F R F' R' U' R2
Insert at $ B L' F2 L B' L' F2 L (Cancels 9 moves) Really Good

2nd Skeleton - R' L U F D B % L' F2 L' R' F U F R F' R' U' R2
Insert at % B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 D' (cancels 1 move) Really Bad

3rd Skeleton - R' L U F D B' D F2 D' & B2 D F2 D' L' F2 L' R' F U F R F' R' U' R2
Insert at & D F2 D' F' B R F2 R' F B' (Cancels 9 moves) Again, Really Good!

Final solution -
R' L U F D F' R F2 R' F B D F2 D' L' F2 L' R' F U F R F' R' U' R2 (26 moves)



I have been practicing FMC a lot recently, and not many other events, but since Nationals is only a few weeks away, I think that I should now focus on the events that I will be doing at Nationals. After Nationals I think that I will try to get back into FMC, because I am really enjoying it.


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## coldsun0630 (Jul 11, 2018)

A scramble from Dadams. Done at July 3rd, but forgot to submit. Using only A B A' (except for very first and last part) was intended.

Scramble: R' L' D' U' B2 F' L R U2 F2 B' R' B' L U2 D' L R' F' L


Spoiler: Solution



B F' L2 U B' // 2x2x2 (6/6)
L U2 L' // build lDF, orient bLU (4/10)
R U' R' // orient UB (3/13)
U' F2 U // build bDL, orient lDF (4/17)
F' U F // orient dRF (3/20)
F U' F' // build dFL, orient bDL (3/23)
U2 L U2 // build fRU (5/28)
U' L' U L U2 // finish (3/31)

31q, 26h


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## bubbagrub (Jul 11, 2018)

coldsun0630 said:


> A scramble from Dadams. Done at July 3rd, but forgot to submit. Using only A B A' (except for very first and last part) was intended.
> 
> Scramble: R' L' D' U' B2 F' L R U2 F2 B' R' B' L U2 D' L R' F' L
> 
> ...


So what's the idea behind the ABA' structure...? Was it just something you wanted to try, or is it a particular method...?


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## coldsun0630 (Jul 12, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> So what's the idea behind the ABA' structure...? Was it just something you wanted to try, or is it a particular method...?


This was just one of my experiments. The idea was come while guessing about DeepCube's method.


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## BQ (Jul 15, 2018)

My 26.00 solutions for Wuxi Try to Get a Mean 2018 final round.

1. Scramble: R' U' F D2 L2 F2 D2 B2 U' R2 U L2 F D R' D' U2 F' L F U R B' R' U' F


Spoiler



Pseudo F2L-1: R2 L' U' R' D R D2 B R B
L2E2C: U B U2 B' U2 R' U
PLL: U' R U' R' F' U' F2 R' F' R F' U F U

Solution: R2 L' U' R' D R D2 B R B U B U2 B' U R' F' U' F2 R' F' R F' U F U (26f)



2. Scramble: R' U' F D2 R2 B2 U L2 U' F2 U L D U' F' D F' U2 L D2 R' U' F


Spoiler



223: U L B R D F @ R' D' F2 U'
L3C: B2 L B' L' D' B'
Insert at @: F' L' F R' F' L F R

Solution: U L B R D L' F R' F' L F D' F2 U' B2 L B' L' D' B' (20f)



3. Scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 B' U2 B2 U2 L2 F2 U2 R B F2 D' R2 B' F2 D2 F' D R' U R' U' F


Spoiler



This scramble is very hard for me. I only found a 32 moves solution.


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## 1973486 (Jul 15, 2018)

BQ said:


> 3. Scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 B' U2 B2 U2 L2 F2 U2 R B F2 D' R2 B' F2 D2 F' D R' U R' U' F



(D) U' R B' D // 222
(F' R2) // 223

Good start, not sure about ending. Found 14 move F2L+EO with U2 R U' R2 F2 R U but the ZBLL is bad

If you did somehow know the optimal alg which cancels (U' F2 L' U B' R' U R B L' D' L' D L') you could get a 26


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## BQ (Jul 16, 2018)

1973486 said:


> (D) U' R B' D // 222
> (F' R2) // 223
> 
> Good start, not sure about ending. Found 14 move F2L+EO with U2 R U' R2 F2 R U but the ZBLL is bad
> ...



Thanks for the start. I didn't notice it at all at competition.

(D) U' R B' D // 222
(F' R2) // 223
(U2 F' L' U' L F) // pseudo f2l-1
(F L' B L' B' L' B' L' F') // l3c

This result is 23 moves finally...


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## zhainan (Jul 16, 2018)

BQ said:


> Thanks for the start. I didn't notice it at all at competition.
> 
> (D) U' R B' D // 222
> (F' R2) // 223
> ...


What a pity, if you have found it, the wr would be flushed.....


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## 1973486 (Jul 16, 2018)

BQ said:


> Thanks for the start. I didn't notice it at all at competition.
> 
> (D) U' R B' D // 222
> (F' R2) // 223
> ...



Surely the ending is
(U2 F L' U' L F)
(F' L' B L' B' L' F L' F2)

The first line is just a move off but the second took me a while to figure out 

Very nice solution


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## BQ (Jul 17, 2018)

1973486 said:


> Surely the ending is
> (U2 F L' U' L F)
> (F' L' B L' B' L' F L' F2)
> 
> ...



Ooops, sorry for the mistake.


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## BenBergen (Jul 18, 2018)

Anyone know what the UWRs for Mo3 and Ao12 in FMC are? I can’t find them on the speedsolving wiki.


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## Hssandwich (Jul 19, 2018)

26.00 mean at Euros today, tied my NR 

#1: 28


Spoiler



R' U' F D B2 L2 D' U2 L2 R2 B2 R2 D' L2 B D2 L U' L' B' L' R2 B D' R' U' F

R //square
(L' B2 U R') //EO
F' (B) //2 more squares
R2 B' //1x2x3
B' U' @ B U2 R2 D //solve the blocks
R2 F' D F' D' F2 R2 //21 to 3c
@ L F L' B2 L F' L' B2 (1 cancel)

Unlucky insertion, but still a solid solve



#2: 26


Spoiler



R' U' F L D2 F2 L2 R' B2 R D2 F2 D2 L2 F' L' U2 R2 D L2 F D2 L' U' R' U' F

L D2 R' F //EO
D' @ L2 D2 F2 U' L //Domino
D R2 U2 $ R2 //14 to 5c
@: B R B' L2 B R' B' L2 (2 cancel)
$: D L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R2 (2 cancel)


Again a bit unlucky with insertions, but thankfully the skeleton was good.



#3: 24


Spoiler



R' U' F L2 B' D2 L2 B' F2 R2 U2 B2 D L' B2 R D2 R' U' L' D2 R B R' U' F

B R' D F //EO
(B2 L' B2) //1x2x3
(L' U' L' B2 L' D) //13 to 3e4c

B R' D F D' L B2 L U @ L B2 L B2
@ L' U R % U' R' L (leave 3c, 1 cancel)
% F D F' U' F D' F' U (2 cancel)

This was a bit lucky, but it made up for the unlucky insertions on 1 and 2.

Here's @bubbagrub's (Ben Coppin) and Marcel's 20
B' //pair
L2 U' B //square
L' B2 //square
R U' B R L2 //11 to 3c3e
+some insertions that cancelled to make 20


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## TipsterTrickster (Jul 20, 2018)

How I describe NISS


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## guysensei1 (Jul 23, 2018)

Weird solution, EO, changing the EO axis partway, then cancelling out the initial EO...?

4. R' U' F L' F2 D2 R2 U' D2 R' U2 R B' U2 B' D2 B' D2 F D2 R2 D2 B R' U' F



Spoiler



(F) L' D B//EO (4/4)
(R F2 L' D')//2x2x2+accidental white front EO (4/8)
(U2 B2 U2)//2x2x3 (3/11)
(B2 R2)//F2L-1 (2/13)
(B2 R B' R' B2 R B2 R' B)//3C, last move cancels out the first EO (9-2/20)

L' D R B2 R' B2 R B R' B2 R2 B2 U2 B2 * U2 D L F2 R' F'
*=F2 U B2 U' F2 U B2 U' (8-1/27)

Final: L' D R B2 R' B2 R B R' B2 R2 B2 U2 B2 F2 U B2 U' F2 U B2 U D L F2 R' F' (27)


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## SpeedCubeReview (Jul 26, 2018)

Hssandwich said:


> #2: 26
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



That's such a nice solve
I'm working on understanding Domino more and corner orientation tends to trip me up. Any tips on how to incorporate CO with EO or how to efficiently do it after?


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## Akyrapower (Jul 26, 2018)

I learning how to do l3e insertions. I have came across cyclic shifts. I know how to utilise them but I can't seem to find a list of all of them


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 26, 2018)

Hey all!
Quick question... is there a rule for FMC regarding the three (up to 3) cubes a person can use? Meaning, like BLD there can be no logos. Is there a similar restriction for FMC?


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## Duncan Bannon (Jul 26, 2018)

No restriction as far as I'm aware.


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## SpartanSailor (Jul 26, 2018)

Duncan Bannon said:


> No restriction as far as I'm aware.


Thanks!


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## Duncan Bannon (Jul 26, 2018)

Main thing is no electronics. Don't talk, and go to the bathroom before every attempt.


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## guysensei1 (Jul 28, 2018)

oops i totally forgot to post this here, but i got some nice singles at Medan All Events a few weeks ago,

Round 1, 24 tied NR single
Scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 B2 D' B2 U' L' F D U B2 F2 R2 F2 U2 R B U R' U' F


Spoiler



B F R' F//EO (4/4)
U' R2 U//2x2x2 (3/7)
R' U R2 U'//2x2x3 (4/11)
R2 D' R'//5C lmao (3/14)

B F R' F U' * R2 U R' ** U R2 U' R2 D' R'
*=U F' D' F U' F' D F (8-4/18)
**=R' U' L U R U' L' U (8-2/24)

Final: B F R' D' F U' F' D F R2 U R2 U' L U R U' L' U2 R2 U' R2 D' R' (24)



Round 2 solve 1, 25 single
Scramble: 
R' U' F U B2 U R2 U B2 F2 L2 U' L R' U' R B' F R' U2 F2 L2 D R' U' F


Spoiler



B' (L R2 B)//EO (4/4)
(L U2 L U2)//2x2x2 (4/8)
D R2 B2//2x2x3 (3/11)
R D2//F2L-1 (2/13)
R' D R2 D' R2 D R2 D'//3C (8/21)

B' * D R2 B2 R D2 R' D R2 D' R2 D R2 D' U2 L' U2 L' B' R2 L'
*=L' D R2 D' L D R2 D' (8-4/25)

Final: B' L' D R2 D' L D B2 R D2 R' D R2 D' R2 D R2 D' U2 L' U2 L' B' R2 L'


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## jschwarz21 (Jul 29, 2018)

Thoughts on this skeleton?

D' F' L2 R' F U R' B L' U R D' L B2 U2 R2 D' U R' L

B D B’ F’ D’ F // EO (6/6)
D2 L’ D’ R D’ R2 D’ L’ D2 // AB6C (9/15)


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## ChrisCuber123 (Jul 30, 2018)

Solutions from my 25.00 winning mean at US Nats
Far and away my proudest cubing achievement 

1. 26


Spoiler



R' U' F R2 D' R2 U B2 L2 U B2 D2 R2 U2 B R U B F2 D R' F' R' U2 R' U' F

R' U L2 D // EO+3 pairs
(L' F') // square
B L' // 2x2x2 with inserted B to preserve pairs
B' R B D2 // 2x2x3
R B R2 B2 // F2L-1
B' R2 B R2 B' R' B // L3C
skeleton: R' U L2 D B L' B' R B D2 R B R2 B R2 B * R2 B' R' B F L
*: B' R F R' B R F' R' (cancels 4 lmao)

that EO start is literally the only good start I found the whole hour, other than that the scramble was terrible lol



2. 24


Spoiler



R' U' F D2 L2 B2 D' F2 L2 R2 F2 R2 F' R B' U2 L' U R' F2 D R' F2 U' R' U' F

(F2 D R) // EO
F D // square
(F R2) // 2x2x2
(B' L2 B' U2 B') // 2x2x3+square
(L2 U B' U B ) // F2L
(L' U' L U' L' U2 L) // lmao

found this in literally the last 2 minutes of the attempt while messing around with blocks



3. 25


Spoiler



Don't have the scramble oops

(R2 B2) // square
(F2 R U) // EO+ps2x2x2
R' // 2x2x2
L F' L2 F U2 F L' // 3e5c
skeleton: R' L F' L2 F U2 ^ F L' U' R' F2 B2 R2 *
*: B L' U' L U B' // L3C (lol)
^: U2 L D L' U2 L D' L'

Best I could find for the first 30-35 mins was something terrible like 25 to 3c, then decided to try the 2 move square and found this right away



The one thing I have to say about this mean as a whole: getting lucky is not a crime


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## Kit Clement (Jul 31, 2018)

Guess I'll post the 2nd place solutions 



Spoiler: Scramble 1 (31)



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D' R2 U B2 L2 U B2 D2 R2 U2 B R U B F2 D R' F' R' U2 R' U' F

I: U B2 //221 (2/2)
N: L' B L2 //222 (3/5)
I: R2 U' R2 U' R //223 (5/10)
N: L F2 L' //partial EO (2/12)
U2 F U2 R' F R //block, pair, Petrus EO (6/18)
U' F U F2 U' F' //L3C (6/24)

Skeleton: L' B L' F2 L' U2 F U2 (1) R' F R U' F U F2 U' F' R' U R2 U R2 B2 U'

1: F' R B' R' F R B R' (cancels 1)

Final: L' B L' F2 L' U2 F U2 F' R B' R' F R B R2 F R U' F U F2 U' F' R' U R2 U R2 B2 U' (31)

Also found this 18 to 3e3c, but optimal was 32 (!!).

I: U B2 //221 (2/2)
R' F L' //222 (3/5)
N: U' R2 //two pair (2/7) 
L U' L' R U //square + roux block (5/12)
I: R' //pseudo (1/13)
N: B' //more pseudo (1/14)
I: R' F R' F' R' //3e3c (4/18)

Found this just now after re-examining this start for 5 min or so:

I: U B2 //221 (2/2)
R' F L' //222 (3/5)
N: U' R2 //two pair (2/7) 
L U' L' R U //square + roux block (5/12)
I: R' B //pseudo (2/14)
N: U B' R' B //EO (3/17)
U R U2 R' U2 //L3C (5/22)

Optimal is 26. 





Spoiler: Scramble 2 (27)



Scramble: R' U' F D2 L2 B2 D' F2 L2 R2 F2 R2 F' R B' U2 L' U R' F2 D R' F2 U' R' U' F
N: U R U //PS222 (3/3)
I: F //fix PS (1/4)
R B2 D' B' //223 (4/8)
B' D' B //Petrus EO (2/10)
N: R' D R2 D R2 D' //L5C (6/16)

Skel: U R U R' D R2 (1) D R2 D' B' D B2 D B2 R' F' 

1: R' U' R D R' U (2) R D' (cancels 4)
2: B' L B R B' L' B R' (cancels 1)

Final: U R U R' D R U' R D R' U B' L B R B' L' B R2 D' B' D B2 D B2 R' F' (27)

This one hurt -- optimal was 26. Somehow didn't see the first insertion on my first pass-through, so I spent a lot of time checking nested on first insertions that only cancelled 2. Found that when I decided to look a second time, but none of my insertions that cancelled 2 worked with that first insertion, and I had only 7 minutes left once I found the insertion cancelling 4. Was super nervous and misscrambled a bunch, and had to go with cancelling 1 since time was running out. Wrote the last move with 10 seconds to go and didn't get to check the solution.





Spoiler: Scramble 3 (22)



Scramble: R' U' F D' F2 L2 U' R2 U' L2 U R2 U2 L2 R D2 F D L U D F R D2 R' U' F
I: R2 B2 R //PS222 (3/3)
N: R' //fix PS (1/4)
I: U' L' F2 U //EO (4/8)
F L2 U2 //223 with Petrus EO (3/11)
N: L' F2 L F2 L' //F2L-1 (5/16)
L' F' L F' L' F' L //LL skip (6/22)

Final: R' L' F2 L F2 L2 F' L F' L' F' L U2 L2 F' U' F2 L U R' B2 R2 (22)

Well, guess I can't complain anymore!


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## ComputerGuy365 (Jul 31, 2018)

jschwarz21 said:


> Thoughts on this skeleton?
> 
> D' F' L2 R' F U R' B L' U R D' L B2 U2 R2 D' U R' L
> 
> ...


That's good 6 in 15, that's a pretty good skeleton


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## Hssandwich (Aug 1, 2018)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> That's such a nice solve
> I'm working on understanding Domino more and corner orientation tends to trip me up. Any tips on how to incorporate CO with EO or how to efficiently do it after?


Sorry, only just saw this! 
The solve was very lucky in this regard, I initially wasn't looking for domino reduction, but once I made the 1x2x3 differently to solve some edges to make a pseudo 2x2x3, I just saw that I could do domino really easily. I'm yet to practice domino stuff/ PDR because I'm satisfied with what I can do at the moment, so maybe some other people could help you out (Matej G maybe?)


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## xyzzy (Aug 2, 2018)

Did a 4FMC attempt. The time limit used in the old weekly comps (back when they had 4FMC) was 2.5 hours, but I didn't want to waste too much time on this so I cut it short at 2 hours.

Scramble: L2 R2 D2 L2 B' R2 B F2 L2 F' R' D' L B L2 U2 F' R' U' F Uw2 Rw2 Uw2 R' Uw2 D2 R' D' Fw2 Rw2 R2 Uw2 Fw B' Rw2 D Rw2 D Uw L2 Fw Uw' Rw' R' F'
Solution (75).


Spoiler: explanation + notes



// reduction
r' f' r2 U' r U f R2 f' // white/yellow centres (9/9)
L R' u R' F' u R u R u' R' u F2 // other centres; 3 dedges (13/22)
B' D' B2 D2 B' u' y2 // +2 dedges (6/28)
(U' R' f' U B2 U' D' L D L' f) // +5 dedges (11/39)
(R u' F R' D F' R u) // finish reduction; three pairs (8/47)
// 333 stage
U F R' B' // two squares (4/4)
(R' D R) // I don't remember why I did this lol (3/7)
R2 U L2 // xxcross + two pairs (3/10)
R' F L' F' L D2 R // ab4c2e (7/17)
F @ (F) // move 4c2e to one layer (2/19)
@ = D L2 U B' U R2 B U2 L2 D' F // optimal ZBLL (11-2/28)

Total move count: 47 + 28 = 75.

First 333 solution that I used for bootstrapping (39 moves):
U R' B' R D R U // 222 + square + pair (7/7)
F D' L D U' F' U // eoxxcross (7/14)
R F R' L F2 L' // third slot (6/20)
F' D2 F' L' F L D2 // last slot (7/27)
D2 F' D' F' D2 F D F D2 F D' F D F' // optimal ZBLL (14-2/39)

I think I might have meant for the R' D R to be R' D' R (forms another square) but wrote it wrongly, and then that somehow ended up being useful.

Edge pairing is kinda meh. Should be possible to do better.


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## Ranzha (Aug 3, 2018)

My solutions from CubingUSA Nationals 2018:

Moves in parentheses are done on the inverse.



Spoiler: Attempt 1: 26



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D' R2 U B2 L2 U B2 D2 R2 U2 B R U B F2 D R' F' R' U2 R' U' F

1-move pairs: L F' (U D')
I went with (U).

(U B2 R' F L') // 222 [5/5]
U' R2 // 3 pairs [2/7]. I struggled here for a while, then figured:
U' R B' // 223 [3/10]
(R' B U B' U R B U' B') // 4C [9/19]

The NISS cancelled two moves, leaving 17.
Skeleton: U' R2 U' R *(B' B)* U (1) B' R' U' B U' B' R L F' R B2 U' [17]
Insert at (1): U' F2 U B' U' F2 U B // 8-4
New skeleton: U' R2 (2) U' R F2 U B' U' F2 U R' U' B U' B' R L F' R B2 U' [21]
Insert at (2): L U' R2 U L' U' R2 U // 8-3

Final solution: U' R2 L U' R2 U L' U' R' F2 U B' U' F2 U R' U' B U' B' R L F' R B2 U' (26)





Spoiler: Attempt 2: 35



Scramble: R' U' F D2 L2 B2 D' F2 L2 R2 F2 R2 F' R B' U2 L' U R' F2 D R' F2 U' R' U' F

I got trapped by the following start:
R U // square [2/2]
(R' F' U F2) // 222 + 2 pairs [4/6]
(D' B2 R' D' R') // 222 + 2sq + pair [5/11]

With 20 minutes to go and not enough time for good insertions, I continued with the following:
(D L' D' L D') // 222 + 123 + sq [5/16]
(R U R U' R2) // 3E3C [5/21]

Skeleton: R U R2 (1) U R' U' R' D L' D L D' R D R B2 D F2 U' F R [21]
Insert at (1): L U2 L' U D' B U2 B' U' D // edges 10-2
New skeleton: R U R2 L U2 L' (2) U D' B U2 B' D R' U' R' D L' D L D' R D R B2 D F2 U' F R [29]
Insert at (2): R D' R' U R D R' U' // corners 8-2

Final solution: R U R2 L U2 L' R D' R' U R D R' D' B U2 B' D R' U' R' D L' D L D' R D R B2 D F2 U' F R (35)





Spoiler: Attempt 3: 29



Scramble: R' U' F D' F2 L2 U' R2 U' L2 U R2 U2 L2 R D2 F D L D U F R D2 R' U' F

Because I hadn't done it yet, and remembering the potentially great EO on a previous attempt that I didn't even consider, I went with an EO start and found the following:
L B' D F R // EO(R) + 3 pairs

I considered the following continuations:
I. (D' B' D' F D' R2) // 2x-cross
II. (F D R2) // 222
III. (D F R2) // 222
I went with III. and continued with F U L2 to build 223.

So far we have:
L B' D F R // EO(R) + 3 pairs [5/5]
(D F R2) // 222 [3/8]
F U L2 // 223 [3/11]

From here, I got two continuations:
I. F2 U2 F' U F2 U F' U F U' // 4C [10/21]
II. F2 U F U F2 U F2 U // 3E3C [8/19]

Of course, I tried the 3E3C first due to being comfortable with 8-move edge insertions (or so I thought):
Skeleton: L B' D F R F U L2 F2 U F U (1) F2 U F2 U R2 F' D' [19]
Insert at (1): U B U' F2 U B' U' F2 // corners 8-5 (!!!)
New skeleton: L B' D F R F U L2 F2 U F U2 B U' (2) F2 U B' F2 U R2 F' D' [22]
Insert at (2): L2 D2 R2 B U2 R2 D2 F // edges 8-1

Then time was up 

Final solution: L B' D F R F U L2 F2 U F U2 B U' L2 D2 R2 B U2 R2 D2 F' U B' F2 U R2 F' D' (29)



26, 35, 29 = *30.00 mean*
Not my best showing, but I haven't seriously practised FMC in probably a year(?)

--

Something else I found on the third attempt that I was NOT going to try officially:
(L F' R' D) // EO(F) [4/4]
This builds a 123 with the centres wrong! Continuing on normal:
B' L2 B2 // EO223 - centres [4/8]
(L' B L B L' B2) // 5C + 4 centres [6/13]

*For those who haven't done centre insertions before:* When building your skeleton, you have to consider the moves as if the scramble contained the insertion! This means that the moves on *inverse* stay the same as premoves, but the moves on *normal* change according to the transformation of the centres (in this case, by a y2 rotation).

"Revised" scramble: R' U' F D' F2 L2 U' R2 U' L2 U R2 U2 L2 R D2 F D L D U F R D2 R' U' F F2 B2 U' D R2 L2 U' D
Skeleton: F' R2 F2 B2 (1) L B' L' B' L D' R F L' [13]
(1): F', L B L' // 8-4
New skeleton: (2) F' R2 B2 F L B L' F L B2 L' B' L D' R F L' [17]
(2): L2, F' R' F // 8-3
What we've got so far:
L2 F' R' F L2 F' R' F B2 (3) L B L' F L B2 L' B' L D' R F L' [22]
F2 B2 U' D R2 L2 U' D y2 // 8-3

So the solution becomes:
R2 B' L' B R2 B' L' B' U' D R2 L2 U' D L B L' F L B2 L' B' L D' R F L' (27)

Of course, this was DEFINITELY not viable for an official attempt, but great for fun


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## ChrisCuber123 (Aug 3, 2018)

Ranzha said:


> Because I hadn't done it yet, and remembering the potentially great EO on a previous attempt that I didn't even consider, I went with an EO start and found the following:
> L B' D F R // EO(R) + 3 pairs



I actually found this EO during the attempt but couldn't find anything off of it lol


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## Cale S (Aug 6, 2018)

Second 4x4 FMC attempt, 67 moves 

this time I used NISS and had a nice 22 move 3x3 stage 


Spoiler



scramble: R' D U L2 F2 D B2 D' R2 F2 L2 U R U' F2 D2 B D2 L2 B2 D' Rw2 F U' Fw2 U Rw2 F' D U' Rw2 Uw2 F2 Rw' D2 F L B Fw' Rw' U' Rw2 L Uw D B2

L' Fw' D R' Fw' Lw' U2 Lw // white + yellow centers 
L Uw2 B' F' Uw' B2 Uw' // orange + avoid OLL parity 
R Dw' R F Dw // finish centers + free edge pear  

Dw2 R' U R Dw2
Dw L' U2 L Dw' 
x2 
Fw2 R' F' B2 R Fw2 
(B' Uw B' U2 B Uw') 
(Uw2 D L' D' L Uw2) // edges + avoid PLL pearity

3x3 fmc: 
U2 D F' U // 2x2x2
(R' D2 R2 B2 R2) // 3e5c

U2 D @ ^ F' U R2 B2 R2 D2 R 
^ = R2 L2 B' L B L R2 // 16 to L3C
@ = [U2, B D B']

3x3 solution: D B D B' U2 B D' B' R2 L2 B' L B L R2 F' U R2 B2 R2 D2 R (22)

Full 4x4 solution: 
L' Fw' D R' Fw' Lw' U2 Lw L Uw2 B' F' Uw' B2 Uw' R Dw' R F Dw' R' U R Dw' L' U2 L Dw' x2 Fw2 R' F' B2 R Fw2 D B D B' U2 B D' B' R2 L2 B' L B L R2 F' U R2 B2 R2 D2 R Uw2 L' D L D' Uw' B' U2 B Uw' B 

67 moves


----------



## Daniel Lin (Aug 7, 2018)

My first 4x4 FMC attempt (77 moves)

scramble (same as Cale's above): R' D U L2 F2 D B2 D' R2 F2 L2 U R U' F2 D2 B D2 L2 B2 D' Rw2 F U' Fw2 U Rw2 F' D U' Rw2 Uw2 F2 Rw' D2 F L B Fw' Rw' U' Rw2 L Uw D B2



Spoiler



U Lw' U2 Bw B Lw // 1st center + 2 bars
F L' Bw2 B Dw' B2 Dw // 2nd center + more bars
L' D Bw2 D' F U Fw' // 3rd + 4th centers

center skeleton: U Lw' U2 Bw B Lw F L' @ Bw2 B Dw' B2 Dw L' D Bw2 D' F U Fw'
@ = U' Bw' U, Fw2 // L2C

Fw' U' B' U' Fw // 5th + 6th edges
(z y' U2 R U' Rw U' R L2 U Rw') // 7th - 10th edges
(Rw' U' B L' U B' Rw) // L2E (go kale jale!!!)

3x3 stage:
L' R' B R' * R // 2x2x2
*: D2 F2 L2 F' // EO
L D' L2 D' L2 D' // 2x2x3
L' D' L' D L // F2L - 1
D F2' D2' L D L' R // tripod to L3C

skeleton: & L' R' B R' D2 F2 L2 F' L D' L2 D' L2 D' L' D' L' D L D F2 D2 L D L' R
& = [D', L' U2 L]

3x3 solution: D' L' U2 L D L' U2 R' B R' D2 F2 L2 F' L D' L2 D' L2 D' L' D' L' D L D F2 D2 L D L' R (32)

Full 4x4 solution: U Lw' U2 Bw B Lw F L' U' Bw' U Fw2 U' Bw Uz2 B Dw' B2 Dw L' D Bw2 D' F U Fw2' U B' U' Fw D' L' U2' L D L' U2' R' B R' D2' F2' L2' F' L D' L2' D' L2' D' L' D' L' D L D F2' D2' L D L' R Rw' B U' L B' U Rw2 U' L2' R' U Rw' U R' U2' y z'


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## obelisk477 (Aug 7, 2018)

Cale S said:


> Second 4x4 FMC attempt, 67 moves
> 
> this time I used NISS and had a nice 22 move 3x3 stage
> 
> ...



Better than Brandon Mikel at 3x3


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## NykoCuber1 (Aug 7, 2018)

*Cross-strait FMC 2018 solution *

I was not at the competition.
26.66 Mo3 
#1 R' U' F D2 B2 F2 L F2 U2 F2 U' R B' L U2 B' D R2 B L' F R' U' F

D' L' (R F' D' ) F D' B // 222 (8)
F' U' F2 U2 ( F2 U' ) // 223 (6)
( R U F U' F' ) // OLL (5)
( U2 L' B2 L U2 F2 L D2 L' F2 ) // PLL T (10)

D' L' F D' B F' U' F2 U2 F2 L D2 L' F2 U2 L' B2 L U2 F U F' U' R' U F2 D F R' 

28

#2 R' U' F R' U2 L' B2 U2 L' D2 L' F2 U2 B' D U2 B R2 U' L' D B2 L2 F R' U' F

R' F U R2 // 222 (4)
F' B D' B' // 223 (4)
D' L' D L' F2 U // F2L-1 (6)
L U B L' B' // Pseudo F2L (5)
( L U' R' U' R2 B' R' B2 U' B' ) // LL (9)

R' F U R2 F' B D' B' D' L' D L' F2 U L U B L' U B2 R B R2 U R U L'

27 

#3 R' U' F U2 L2 D' R2 F2 R2 D' R2 U' F L' U2 R' B L D L2 U' R' D R' U' F

( U' B R2 ) B2 // 222 (4)
( L U' F' U2 F2 L F U' F' L F ) // Pseudo F2L (11)
U2 B R B2 R D L' D2 F' R2 // LL (10)

B2 U2 B R B2 R D L' D2 F' R2 F' L' F U F' L' F2 U2 F U L' R2 B' U

25


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## Daniel Lin (Aug 12, 2018)

Did a 5x5 FMC attempt. Really exhausting. 163 moves (Cale got 147 on the same scramble xd)



Spoiler



Scramble: Fw Dw' Lw' U2 L Bw Rw2 L Fw Bw B' D' Bw2 B2 U Lw U' D' L2 B' Bw2 U' Lw' R' U2 Dw D2 Lw B Bw Lw2 U2 Dw R2 Lw F2 Bw Dw2 Bw Rw Lw' F2 Dw2 R2 Uw' U2 L' Uw D2 Rw' Bw2 U2 Lw2 Dw Lw2 Dw2 B2 R2 Bw' L2

Bw2 Uw Dw D Rw2 // 1st center
Bw2 L' Bw Dw' L Dw Fw' L Fw U2 Lw Rw Uw' L2 Uw // 2nd center
D F' Rw2 D' Lw F' Rw' Lw F Rw' U Lw' // 3rd center
F Lw2 B' Lw2 B' Lw2 F Lw2 B Rw2 F Rw2 U' Rw U Rw' U Lw' B2 Lw // 4th center
U Rw U' Rw' U' Rw U' Rw' // L2C

Uw' R' U2 R Uw // too lazy to
(F' Uw' B U B' Uw' B D2 B' Uw2 // add comments
Dw F' L D' F L' Dw') // because it's just making random pairs
R2 Fw2 U F U2 F U Fw' R B2 R' L U' F L' U Fw' 
U2 Fw' L' F2 L R F2 R' Fw
Dw F L' U F' L Dw' 
Rw2 U' L U Rw2 Lw2 U' B L' U B' Lw2

3x3 stage scramble (inverse of CFOP solution lol):
F U2 B' U B' U B U' B U2 F' B U B' U' D B L B' L' D' L B2 L' B' L B' L' U R' U' R U' B' U D L' D' L2 B2 L'
D' R2 D2 B F' R F R' L2 U2 L U' F R' B2

B R' B U' D L // 2x2x2 + pair
R F' R' F // EO
D' B D' B' D2 // 2x2x3
B R2 D B' D' B' U' B2 U //F2L - 1
D B' D' // L4C

B R' B U' D L R & F' R' F D' B D' B' D2 B R2 D ^ B' D' B' U' B2 U D B' D'
& = R', F' L F
^ = D' R D, L'
3x3 solution: B R' B U' D L F' L F R F' L' R' F D' B D' B' D2 B R' D L' D' R' D L B' D' B' U' B2 U D B' D' (36 :/)

full 5x5 FMC solution: Bw2 Uw Dw D Rw2 Bw2 L' Bw Dw' L Dw Fw' L Fw U2 Lw Rw Uw' L2 Uw D F' Rw2 D' Lw F' Rw' Lw F Rw' U Lw' F Lw2 B' Lw2 B' Lw2 F Lw2 B Rw2 F Rw2 U' Rw U Rw' U Lw' B2 Lw U Rw U' Rw' U' Rw U' Rw' Uw' R' U2 R Uw R2 Fw2 U F U2 F U Fw' R B2 R' L U' F L' U Fw' U2 Fw' L' F2 L R F2 R' Fw Dw F L' U F' L Dw' Rw2 U' L U Rw2 Lw2 U' B L' U B' Lw2 B R' B U' D L F' L F R F' L' R' F D' B D' B' D2 B R' D L' D' R' D L B' D' B' U' B2 U D B' D' Dw L F' D L' F Dw' Uw2' B D2' B' Uw B U' B' Uw F


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## thecubingwizard (Aug 13, 2018)

Just got back from the CubingUSA Northwest Champs. Awesome comp. 6 podiums, including an FMC win!
FMC mean was meh at best. I wasn't a fan of the scrambles, but all worked out. Still a bit upset about not getting the sub-30 mean, but next time.



Spoiler: Attempt 1: 30



Scramble: R' U' F R2 B2 L2 R2 U2 F' U2 R2 B2 L2 U R D2 L' D2 U B' D' F2 R2 B R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R B' R2 F2 D B U' D2 L D2 R' U' L2 B2 R2 U2 F U2 R2 L2 B2 R2 F' U R

D B // Square
(L D' R) // 2x2x2
U' F' U' F' U' L' F // 2x2x3 + square
U2 L' U' L F' L2 F L' // AB5C

Skeleton: D B @ U' F' U' F' U' L' F U2 L' U' L F' L2 F L' R' D L'
@ = B' D B U B' # D' B U'
# = R D' L2 D R' D' L2 D
Optimal insertions.
Should have left some of the edges unsolved at the end and looked back through the skeleton to see where I could cycle them with R U R' U', R U2 R', etc.





Spoiler: Attempt 2: 31



Scramble: R' U' F D' F2 U' F2 D' L2 F2 D' L2 F L2 U' L' U' R B' L D' R2 B2 D R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R D' B2 R2 D L' B R' U L U L2 F' L2 D F2 L2 D F2 U F2 D F' U R

Probably my least favorite scramble out of the 3

R F L2 // 2x2x2 without a corner + pair
(B2 R' U R) B // 2x2x3 - corner
(L U' F U2 F' U') // idk
(L' F' L F' D F D' F) // leaves good 6 corners

Skeleton: R F L2 B F' @ D F' D' F L' # F L U F U2 F' U L' R' U' R B2
@ = B D F D' B' D F' D' (cancels 4)
# = L B2 L' F2 L B2 L' F2 (cancels 3)
Optimal insertions again.
Please try this scramble and give solutions.





Spoiler: Attempt 3: 31



Scramble: R' U' F L2 U2 L2 U' L2 R2 F' R' B R F U' B L' F L2 D2 R' U' F
Inverse: F' U R D2 L2 F' L B' U F' R' B' R F R2 L2 U L2 U2 L2 F' U R

Probably the best scramble out of the 3.
First thing that I found was this 2x2x3: D2 R' B R F2 D2 F D' B2
This gave my two backups:

Backup #1: 32
D2 R' B R F2 D2 F D' B2 // 2x2x3
F' D R' D' (F2) // F2L-1
U' R U R' U' R U // F2L
D R D' R D R' B R' B' D' R2 // LL

Backup #2: 27 to 3c
D2 R' B R F2 D2 F D' B2 // 2x2x3
F' D R' D' (F2) // F2L-1
(R U' R U R U F' U' F) // Square thing
(U' R U R) // AB3C (optimal is 32)

Then I found this which I ended up using:
D2 R' B R F2 D2 F D' B2 // 2x2x3
U' R' U R' F2 // F2L-1
(U' R U R' F R' F') // AB4C

Skeleton: D2 R' B R @ F2 D2 F D' B2 U' R' U # R' F' R F' R U' R' U
@ = R' B2 R F' R' B2 R F (cancels 4)
# = B' L2 B R2 B' L2 B R2 (cancels 1)
Optimal is 30, but it was a 5 cancellation nested inside a 1 cancel soooo.



=30.67 mean. PB is 30.33 from Nats. Both of these had the potential to be sub-30 (especially nats), but I'm overall happy with both performances. Super happy with the win at Northwest. Good stuff.


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## uesyuu (Aug 22, 2018)

My winning solution for FMC at Asian Championships!
26, 28, 24 = 26.00 mean


1st Attempt
26 moves


Spoiler



scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 L' R' U2 B2 R2 B2 R D R2 U2 F' U' L2 R' B U2 B U' R' U' F

(U2 F2 U B2 L’) // 222
F R2 F’ R B2 // 223
F R’ F’ R’ // F2L-1
R’ U R B U2 B’ // L3C

skeleton: * F R2 F’ R B2 F R’ F’ R2 U R B U2 B’ L B2 U’ F2 U2
insert at *:U B’ U’ F’ U B U’ F
one move cancel :-(



2nd Attempt
28 moves


Spoiler



scramble: R' U' F L2 R2 U2 B2 L2 U' B2 D L B' U B' D2 F' L' F U' R D R' U' F

D2 U2 L’ B U’ R // 222
L2 B L’ // 223
(R D B2 D’ B R’) // Finish pseudo F2L
(F U R U’ R’ F’ U B2) // L3C

skeleton: D2 U2 * L’ B U’ R L2 B L’ B2 U’ F R U R’ U’ F’ R B’ D B2 D’ R’
insert at *: D’ L’ U2 L D L’ U2 L
3 moves cancel, lucky 



3rd Attempt
24 moves


Spoiler



scramble: R' U' F L2 B2 D B2 U2 L2 D' L2 R' F2 D' L2 B' D B' F' R' B' F' R' U' F

(U’ L’ F’ U’ R’) // 222
U2 B L B2 L2 // 223
B2 U2 B // make cross and pair
R’ U R // 3E3C

skeleton: U2 B L B2 L2 B2 U2 B R’ U R2 U F L U *
insert at * :U [R B R’ U’ R’ U R B’] U’(pair comm)


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## BQ (Aug 23, 2018)

My 3rd solution at AC2018.



Spoiler



scramble: R' U' F L2 B2 D B2 U2 L2 D' L2 R' F2 D' L2 B' D B' F' R' B' F' R' U' F

NISS
U B //122
NISS
U' B' U // 222
F' R F' R2 D2 // 223
F' R2 D R D' R' * F' R // 2E3C

*: R F R2 D R D2 F D F2


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## DGCubes (Aug 23, 2018)

Just got a pretty cool 26:



Spoiler: solution



Scramble: R' U' F D2 R2 D2 B' L2 F' R2 B2 L2 F L' D2 B D2 B R2 D B2 U F' R' U' F

L2 B // 1x2x2
U' B U // 2x2x2
D' R F2 // pseudo-2x2x3
(F) // fix pseudo
F D' F' D' // AB3E5C, cancels 1

With rNISS I found two 16 to 5C skeletons:
* L2 B U' B U D' ^ R F' @ D' F' D' F'
* = L2 D' L D L // AB5C, cancels 1
^ = R L D L' D' R' // AB5C, cancels 2
@ = B R D R' D' B' D // AB2E2C, cancels 2

I tried the first 5C skeleton and ended up with a 29 (IF found a 28), but then the second one had some nicer cancellations:
L2 B U' B D' % # U R L D L' D' F' D' F' D' F'
% = D F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 (cancels 2)
# = R D2 R' U R D2 R' U' (cancels 4)

Solution (26): L2 B U' B F2 D' B2 D F2 D' B2 R D2 R' U R D2 L D L' D' F' D' F' D' F'

I'm happy with my solution, but I really think this scramble has a lot more potential; I'd like to see what really good FMC solvers get on it. There were a ton of blocks I had to break for my first skeleton, so I'm curious if anything better could've been done with them. There's also definitely some potential with the 17 to 2E2C skeleton.


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## thecubingwizard (Aug 24, 2018)

Just got overall PB for the SS weekly comp. A silly insertion saves the day.



Spoiler: SS weekly (23)



R’ U’ F B D2 L2 R2 F D2 L2 B2 U2 F R2 U’ R’ D2 F2 U’ R F’ R U’ L2 R’ U’ F

B’ // Partial EO
(D’ U’ R’ B’ L) // Finish EO
(R U R’ U) U2 // 2x2x3
(D’ L2 D L D2 L D2 L’ D) // AB3C

Skel: B’ U2 D’ L D2 L’ D2 L’ D’ L2 D U’ R U’ R’ L’ @ B R U D

@ = L2 B R B’ L2 B R’ B’ (cancels 5)

Final: B’ U2 D’ L D2 L’ D2 L’ D’ L2 D U’ R U’ R’ L B R B’ L2 B U D (23)


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## cubeshepherd (Aug 24, 2018)

Good day,

I am uncertain as to where I should ask the below question, but since it it about the berkeley FMC website I thought this would be the right place.
Now my question is; I forgot my password for logging it, but I cannot see anywhere to (a) ask for a email to be sent (b) or request a new password. So is there anyway for me to do that? Or what would be the best way to go about that? Thank you very much in advance.

Lastly, The other reason that I am asking this question here, is because I did not see any contact info on the website.


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## AvGalen (Aug 27, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> Good day,
> 
> I am uncertain as to where I should ask the below question, but since it it about the berkeley FMC website I thought this would be the right place.
> Now my question is; I forgot my password for logging it, but I cannot see anywhere to (a) ask for a email to be sent (b) or request a new password. So is there anyway for me to do that? Or what would be the best way to go about that? Thank you very much in advance.
> ...


Since that website refers here you might actually receive a reply. Another way might be to use this page to just submit your result with a comment about not being able to login: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/244/

Also, I tried the "register" procedure to force an error by using "username=a, password=a"...but it succeeded even though the minimum was 8 characters for the password. I hope David Adams will read this and will delete that account


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## cubeshepherd (Aug 27, 2018)

AvGalen said:


> Since that website refers here you might actually receive a reply. Another way might be to use this page to just submit your result with a comment about not being able to login: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/244/
> 
> Also, I tried the "register" procedure to force an error by using "username=a, password=a"...but it succeeded even though the minimum was 8 characters for the password. I hope David Adams will read this and will delete that account


Thank you very much @AvGalen for the reply. I will try as you suggested in regards to submitting a solution for this week, and see if David Adams or anyone else sees my request/question. I thought about creating a new account, but I do not want my old results to be left behind, with no ability to be able to add more solutions to my first account (If that makes any sense).

Again thank you for the reply, and I guess now I will have to wait and see what happens.


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## NykoCuber1 (Sep 2, 2018)

I redid the first scramble of my 27 NR Mean ( 31  , 25 , 25 ) and found a 21 would have been 23.66 WR  !
Lyon Mental Brekdown 2018 

R' U' F D2 U2 B' U2 L2 F' L2 B2 R2 D' F2 U' L R B' L2 D B' L2 F R' U' F 

F' U2 L D F R' // 222 (6)
( B2 U' R' U ) // Blocks (4)
( R2 U' R B' R' U2 L U L' B' ) // 3E (10)

S // F' U2 L D F R' B L U' L' U2 R B R' U  R2 U' R U B2 

 U' R B' R' U D' F R F' D ( +1 ! )

Solution : 
F' U2 L D F R' B L U' L' U' D' F R F' D R2 U' R U B2 // 21


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## AvGalen (Sep 3, 2018)

NykoCuber1 said:


> I redid the first scramble of my 27 NR Mean ( 31  , 25 , 25 ) and found a 21 would have been 23.66 WR  !
> Lyon Mental Brekdown 2018


Did it give you a (lowers sunglasses) Mental Breakdown? (music: YEEEEEEAAAAAH)

How much time did you spend on finding that solution?
will analyze tonight at home


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## NykoCuber1 (Sep 3, 2018)

I have found the 21 in less than 1 hour !


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## cubeshepherd (Sep 3, 2018)

cubeshepherd said:


> Good day,
> 
> I am uncertain as to where I should ask the below question, but since it it about the berkeley FMC website I thought this would be the right place.
> Now my question is; I forgot my password for logging it, but I cannot see anywhere to (a) ask for a email to be sent (b) or request a new password. So is there anyway for me to do that? Or what would be the best way to go about that? Thank you very much in advance.
> ...


Update: No one has to worry about my question anymore. For some unknown reason I found my password on a piece of paper so I am now logged in. However if anyone ever has any contact info for the Berkley website or whoever is in charge of the website, I think that it would be great for everyone to be able to contact them when they need...If that makes sense. Thank you all that helped me answer my questions.


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## Marc Ringuette (Sep 11, 2018)

There's now an instrumented cube available retail! This is a big deal for FMC and ease of use.

The Giiker Cube, a Bluetooth instrumented cube with an app that can follow it, is available as of August 2018 at speedcubeshop.com and thecubicle.us for $42 or so.

I've always been interested in variants of FMC, and of combined FMC and speedsolving. Instead of a written scramble and an hour, you could get a scrambled cube and five minutes to do a fewest-moves solve. Or, you could have a speedsolving competition where you're penalized N seconds per move, for various N, providing a smooth spectrum between FMC and speedsolving. 

With a bit of straightforward software work (Lucas Garron has already connected the Giiker Cube with Chrome, see https://bluetooth.cubing.net/ ) we'll be able to try out FMC variants like this, with fairly easy logistics and no custom hardware. Sweet!


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## AvGalen (Sep 12, 2018)

Marc Ringuette said:


> There's now an instrumented cube available retail! This is a big deal for FMC and ease of use.
> 
> The Giiker Cube, a Bluetooth instrumented cube with an app that can follow it, is available as of August 2018 at speedcubeshop.com and thecubicle.us for $42 or so.
> 
> ...


Lucas Garron showed me the Giiker Cube during Euro 2018 and we discussed a few ideas in very quick bursts. We both agree that theoretically this can revolutionize FMC, but for now I don't have any practical idea that could work. Cheating is an obvious issue (either by having a solver on your receiving device, or by sending the data to another person with the receiver). At the moment the only real use I could find for the Giiker Cube would be to have:
* (Unofficial) Online competitions that could be verified
* Great for statistics, gathering practice information
* Guaranteed correct scrambling


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## FakeMMAP (Sep 30, 2018)

Weird 28 I got yesterday:

scramble: R' U' F B D2 L' D' L2 F' L2 B R' L2 U' B2 U D2 L2 F2 D2 B2 D2 B2 R' U' F

solution: R' L2 B U2 B L U F2 L' D2 L D2 R D' L' D R' L F R' D' R D F' D' F U2 B'

explanation:

R' L2 //1x1x3
B U2 B //"inner" 1x1x3
L //1x2x3 (so far 7 moves)

switch (the fun begins  )

B U2 //pseudo-2x2x3 (premove=U') (basically 2x2x3 done in 9 moves)

now here it kinda looks terrible, so I tried randomly picking edges and corners to pair and got this:

F' D F //pair

now watch what happens when I do EO while preserving the pair I just made:

D' R' D R F' //EO+PSEUDO-F2L (premove=F2) (dafuq was that?!)

now we have solved F2L in 18 moves. Guess what case I got for LL?

L' R D' L D R' D2 L' D2 L //LL in 10 moves (which is actually just the COLL xD)

yeah, that was a really weird solve. PB is 27.


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## porkynator (Oct 7, 2018)

Today I did a solve worth sharing, in my opinion. What I like the most about it is that I have found a nice 24 in 10 minutes, but then I kept trying and I managed to improve it to a 22 first, and then to a 21.
*
Spoiler alert: German forum weekly competition, first scramble.*



Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F L2 B2 R2 B2 R2 D2 B' F' U' L D F R B' R' F R' D U' B2 R' U' F
Solution: B U2 R F L' R2 D' L' D L' F2 B2 R B2 U' F2 U B2 U' F2 L' (21)

I have found this start very quickly (2 minutes):

B * U2 R F //EO (4/4)
L' F2 B2 //Blocks (3/7)
L2 U' R' L' + //3c3e (4/11)

And I went for insertions right away:

* = B D B' U2 D2 F D' F' U2 D2 (7)
+ = R U2 R' D' R U2 R' D (6)

Then I tried other stuff, but I didn't find anything as good. An interesting "all but 8 corners" in 9 moves, but with 4 corner comms needed.
Then I went through my skeleton again to see if I could find something better, and I did:

B U2 R F //EO as before (4/4)
L' R D' R' //Different stuff (4/8)
F2 B2 //Blocks (2/10)
L U L U' R' L' //3c (6/16)

At this point I noticed something. My two skeletons shared not only the start, but also the last 3 moves (U' R' L'). So I decided to use them as premoves:

Premoves: U' R' L' (3/3)
B U2 R F //Same start (4/7)
L' R2 //All but 3 corners, 4 edges and 4 centers (2/2)

Edges and centers can be solved with setup + S2, which is actually what I did before. However, now I see that there is a better spot to do this and save one move:

B U2 R F L' R2 // (6/6)
D' L' R' //Premoves (pseudo centers change U to D) (3/9)
R D L' F2 B2 R * U' L' // = [R D L': S2], solves edges and centers, 2 moves cancel (6/15)

* = B2 U' F2 U B2 U' F2 U //Corner comm (6/21)


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## bubbagrub (Oct 19, 2018)

tl;dr: what is parity in FMC?

I've sometimes seen people use the term "parity" in an FMC solve to refer to a skeleton (I think) where they end up with 2 edges unsolved (and some number of corners, presumably). 

I'm wondering two things:

1. Is this an accepted definition?
2. Do we understand much about how this kind of parity works? The reason I'm asking is that I sometimes find I get to a point in a solve where things look very promising, but no matter what I do I always end up with 2 edges and some (>2) number of corners left to solve. Is this a real phenomenon, or am I just dreaming it...? For more background, I think this happens after an EO start.


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## xyzzy (Oct 19, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> tl;dr: what is parity in FMC?
> 
> I've sometimes seen people use the term "parity" in an FMC solve to refer to a skeleton (I think) where they end up with 2 edges unsolved (and some number of corners, presumably).
> 
> ...


1. I mean, if everyone understands it, that's as "accepted" as it can be… (Also, two edges _swapped_, not merely unsolved. Cases with two edges flipped shouldn't be considered "parity", although they're just about as bad.)

2. If you do EO but not at the very beginning, you can usually do it in many different ways and end up with different edge permutations, some of which will have nice continuations and some of which don't. Conversely, if EO is done right at the start and you preserve it throughout, that limits the kinds of moves you can make and it's harder to influence EP. That said, I don't think this is a huge effect (if it's real at all), so it's probably all in your mind.


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## meskelto (Oct 21, 2018)

I have found a fairly interesting skeleton from the weekly FMC scramble which uses keyhole, but unfortunately I couldn't get a solution out in time (always do a back-up solution!) so I want to post it here:

Scramble: U2 L2 R F' D2 L' R2 F2 D2 L F R L2 B D' R2 U B F L2

F' B2 R' // EO [3/3]
U B' F2 U' L2 // 2x2x2 + F2L edges -1 [5/8]
U D2 B' U' B // Keyhole [5/13]
D2 B' U2 B // AB4C [4/17]

IF gives 28 moves. 

Also, is there any well known way to get faster at finding insertions?


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## ChrisCuber123 (Oct 29, 2018)

GA Cubers Mountain Trip finals scramble 3...
I'm lost for words


Spoiler



R' U' F D B D R2 U B' U2 R2 L' D' R2 F' D2 F' L2 F' R2 B U2 D2 R' U' F

F D B D * // EO2x2x2
L' U2 L F2 // 2x2x3
U' R2 U' R U' R' // L3C
*: D' L' U2 L D L' U2 L (8-8 wtf)
final solution: F D B L' U2 L D F2 U' R2 U' R U' R' (14)


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## BenBergen (Oct 29, 2018)

ChrisCuber123 said:


> GA Cubers Mountain Trip finals scramble 3...
> I'm lost for words
> 
> 
> ...



Wow... 

Too bad no one found that, but it's probably for the better. If the FMC world record were to drop to 14 then <0.1% of scrambles would even had a shot at tying it. We'd have to seriously reconsider the way we define the world record single in the event, or else it'd become essentially infeasible to match or break.


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## guysensei1 (Oct 29, 2018)

FMC Southeast Asia, 27.00 mean, 2nd place:

1) 28
R' U' F L2 B2 U2 F2 R2 D2 R2 B R2 F2 D' L' R2 B' D2 B' D2 U R F R' U' F



Spoiler



(B')//eo lul (1/1)
U' B2 L//2 squares (3/4)
R' D R U (U2)//2x2x3 (5/9)
(L F2 L2 F2) F2//F2L-1 (5/14)
L U L' U' L2 U L U' L//3C (9/23)

U' B2 L R' D R U F2 L U L' U' L2 U L U' L F2 L2 F2 * L' U2 B
*=F' L' B' L F L' B L (8-3/28)

1 move eo lol, found another 28 with 22 to 3c but it didn't work when I wrote it down so I used this instead.



2) 25
R' U' F R2 F L2 F' U2 F U2 F D L D' F D2 L B F D2 F D2 R' U' F



Spoiler



(L' R' U')//eo (3/3)
(D2 L' R' F')//2x2x2 (4/7)
(L' B2 L' B' L')//3E4C (5/12)
L * B ** L B2 L F R L D2 U R L
*=F' L F L'//to 3e3c (4/16)
**=B R2 *** B' L B R2 B' L' (8-4/20)
***=D2 R2 U2 F R2 D2 L2 B (8-3/25)

Final: L F' L F L' B2 R2 D2 R2 U2 F R2 D2 L' B R2 B L F R L D2 U R L

First time doing 3 insertions in a solve 
Actually I noticed this in the last minute but couldn't find any way to finish in time:

(L' R' U')//eo (3/3)
(D2 L' R' F')//2x2x2 (4/7)
(L' B2 L' B')//4E4C (4/11)

I had a look at home and I found this quite quickly:

* B L B2 L F R L D2 U R L
*=
B2 U' B2 U B2//cfop (5/16)
U' L U' L' U L U//ll skip (7/23)

Would have given me the win...



3) 28
R' U' F R' U2 B2 U2 F2 L' R2 F2 R2 D2 U F' L R F2 R U L D F2 R' U' F



Spoiler



D' (L B2 D)//EO (4/4)
(R F' L B')//2x2x2 (4/8)
(R)//square (1/9)
(U F R)//more blocks, breaking EO (3/12)
(B U B' U' F2 U'//F2L-1 (6/18)
(R2 U' R2 U)//3C (4/22)
(R D L2 D' R' D L2 D')//comm (8-2/28)

Final: L2 D' R D L2 D' R' U' R2 U R2 U F2 U B U' B' R' F' U' R' B L' F R' D' B2 L'

I found this 3c literally in the last 2 minutes and luckily optimal was right at the end so I got it. Before I had a 29 with 23 to 3E


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## Underwatercuber (Oct 29, 2018)

BenBergen said:


> Wow...
> 
> Too bad no one found that, but it's probably for the better. If the FMC world record were to drop to 14 then <0.1% of scrambles would even had a shot at tying it. We'd have to seriously reconsider the way we define the world record single in the event, or else it'd become essentially infeasible to match or break.


Does it matter how you define the single? If someone gets a 14 they deserve it regardless of how hard it will be to beat or tie


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## obelisk477 (Oct 29, 2018)

Guys the 14 UWR was a prank lol


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## BenBergen (Oct 29, 2018)

Underwatercuber said:


> Does it matter how you define the single? If someone gets a 14 they deserve it regardless of how hard it will be to beat or tie



Maybe I worded that poorly...

I'm not saying they wouldn't deserve it. I just think it would make the FMC single WR meaningless, even more so than the 2x2 WR single already is. If someone is truly the best in the world at something they should have a reasonable chance at setting the world record, not necessarily on any given solve, but at least over the course of their career. The best FMC solver in the world could go their entire life without ever getting an official scramble where optimal is 14 moves or less. So even though a 14 would definitely be a world record in the sense of "the best ever official result", the world record itself would lose significance because any attempt to set it would become a pointless endeavor.

Edit: oh lol, just saw the previous post.


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## Lucas Wesche (Oct 29, 2018)

Could someone help me with this scramble?

R' U' F L2 R2 F2 D' L2 B2 D' U2 F2 L U2 B' U' R' F' L2 F L D2 F2 R' U' F

I've tried several things, but I didn't find anything good


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## asacuber (Oct 30, 2018)

inv:
R2
or
inv: F


form pairs. however they don't lead to anything great, found a 7 move 222 by the 2nd one when i nissed. However I found this:
U R' D' L B L F B' D B2//223
I will try and build on this

E: Continuation: (F' R2 F R D' R' D2 R2 D R D' R' D R2)AB3C

IF gives 30. Better than nothing lol


Lucas Wesche said:


> Could someone help me with this scramble?
> 
> R' U' F L2 R2 F2 D' L2 B2 D' U2 F2 L U2 B' U' R' F' L2 F L D2 F2 R' U' F
> 
> I've tried several things, but I didn't find anything good


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## guusrs (Oct 30, 2018)

obelisk477 said:


> Guys the 14 UWR was a prank lol



This is not a Prank: 18 move WR for Chat Batten at GA Cubers Mountain Trip 2018 last weekend.

Anyone has is solve or the scramble?


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## Mike Hughey (Oct 30, 2018)

guusrs said:


> This is not a Prank: 18 move WR for Chat Batten at GA Cubers Mountain Trip 2018 last weekend.
> 
> Anyone has is solve or the scramble?


Unless this is a prank (I'm pretty sure it isn't  - then again, I've already shown how easily I'm fooled) it's here:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/wr-chad-batten-18-fmc.71432/#post-1304680


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## obelisk477 (Oct 30, 2018)

guusrs said:


> This is not a Prank: 18 move WR for Chat Batten at GA Cubers Mountain Trip 2018 last weekend.
> 
> Anyone has is solve or the scramble?





Here's the scramble:

R' U' F R2 B2 R' B2 L D2 R' U2 B L' B2 L2 D2 L' B D' B2 L' F R' U' F

Chad is me by the way


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## guusrs (Oct 30, 2018)

Wow! congrats, not an easy scramble, no trivial solve


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## Julian (Nov 5, 2018)

My solves from FMC Americas 



Spoiler: [28] R' U' F R2 D2 B2 D2 U' L2 B2 L2 U' R' F2 D' R2 F L F' D' B' R F U' R' U' F



(R B') // sqr + pair, 2
(L D' L' U F) // 2nd sqr, 7
(U F R2 F R' U2 L') U' // F2L-1, 15
B U B U' L U' L' U B // L3C, 24

skeleton:
U'
B U B U' L U' L' U B
L U2 R . F' R2 F' U'
F' U' L D L'
B R'

Insert R' U2 R D R' U2 R D' at . cancelling 4 moves





Spoiler: [28] R' U' F L2 R2 B' D2 B' R2 F2 D2 L' R2 F2 R' U' L' R2 U2 B' F L F' R' U' F



first, find
U2 F' R' F' // 222, 4

then insert a move to get
U2 F' R' U2 F' // 222 + pair, 5
which leads to an 8-move 223

then I played around to try to get the WG edge to behave nicely, and instead came up with
U2 F D . F2 R' U2 F' // 222 + 2 pairs, 7
L B2 L2 U2 B2 // F2L-1 + 2 pairs, 12
B U .. L U' L' B' U // 3E3C, 18

Insert U' F2 R2 B2 D' B2 R2 F2 at . cancelling 3 moves
Insert U' L' D' L U L' D L at .. cancelling 3 moves





Spoiler: [26] R' U' F U' L2 U' B2 U' F2 U2 R2 U' B2 F R2 D' R' U' L2 F2 L F R F2 R' U' F



(D' B') // sqr + pair, 2
(U L) // 123, 4

then insert a move, hoping for good pseudo-blocks

(D' F B' U L) // 123 + 2 pairs, 5
(U L2 U2 D') U' D // F2L-cross edge, 11
R2 // 3C5E (both single cycles), 12

skeleton:
U' D R2
D U2 L2 U' L' U' B F' D .

Insert U [R .. B F' U' B' F] U' at . // 1 move setup to U M' U' M for the 5-cycle of edges lol
Insert R2 F L2 F' R2 F L2 F' at .. cancelling 2 moves


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## Cale S (Nov 5, 2018)

25 on the first scramble of FMC Americas, other attempts were bad so only a 28.67 mean but getting the best result on this scramble was nice

R' U' F R2 D2 B2 D2 U' L2 B2 L2 U' R' F2 D' R2 F L F' D' B' R F U' R' U' F 

U (U' B U) // EO
D2 L B2 R’ // 222 + pears
B' F' L2 @ B F D2 // F2L - 1 
L' F L F' L2 // 19 to 3c

@ = [D, F U2 F']

Solution: U D2 L B2 R' B' F' L2 D F U2 F' D' F U2 B D2 L' F L F' L2 U' B' U (25)


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## asacuber (Nov 6, 2018)

Warning: Spoilers for this weekly comp


Spoiler: fmc weekly speedsolving comp-45



R' U' F D2 B2 L' F2 U2 L' R2 D2 R B2 F U F L' D' L' U' R' U2 R' U' F-scr
Lots of pairs, but i chose to form one:
F'//pair
L U D F'//222
R' U' B D' R' D//223
U' R U2// F2L-1 at 14 

from here I couldnt find anything except a 22 to AB4C which IF gives 32 for
after 223 there is also a 14 move f2l-1 on inverse: (R' U2 R')
help


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## Julian (Nov 7, 2018)

asacuber said:


> Warning: Spoilers for this weekly comp
> 
> 
> Spoiler: fmc weekly speedsolving comp-45
> ...




I found this using your start:



Spoiler



R' U' F D2 B2 L' F2 U2 L' R2 D2 R B2 F U F L' D' L' U' R' U2 R' U' F 

F' L U R2 D F' // 222, 6
U' L U2 L' // 223, 10
U2 B U' B' U B U B' U' R // L5C, 20

IF gives 29 cancelling first 5, then 2


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## asacuber (Nov 8, 2018)

finally got my first sub 30! 
28 (with no insertions woah)


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## Cale S (Nov 20, 2018)

19 pb single yay 

R' U' F U2 B R2 U2 L2 D F2 D R2 F2 D' R2 U' B' U2 L' F2 R F2 L' R' U' F

U' F L2 U' F' // EO
(D F2 D2 L2) // 223
R' D2 R' D' R' D2 // 15 to 3e

U' F L2 U' F' R' D2 R' D' R' D2 L2 D2 F2 @ D'
@ = F2 D2 B2 L B2 D2 F2 R
Solution: U' F L2 U' F' R' D2 R' D' R' D2 L2 B2 L B2 D2 F2 R D' (19)


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## asacuber (Nov 20, 2018)

someone thinks they're being real funny:
https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/fmc/255/


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## Kit Clement (Nov 26, 2018)

My solutions from Hawaii 2018, 25.67 mean.



Spoiler: Attempt 1 (24): R' U' F R2 B2 F2 U' R2 U L2 B2 U B2 U F' L B' D' B R' F U L2 F' R' U' F



L' U F //EO (3/3)
L' F2 D //block+pair in a nice place (3/6)
R D2 R2 U' R' D2 R' //almost 223 (7/13)
B2 D2 L2 D' //2e2c (4/17)
D L' F2 R U' R' F2 L2 D' L' //done (7/24)

Final: L' U F L' F2 D R D2 R2 U' R' D2 R' B2 D2 L F2 R U' R' F2 L2 D' L' (24)

One of my favorite finishes I've ever done in an official FMC!





Spoiler: Attempt 2 (24): R' U' F U2 R2 F L2 F2 D2 R2 F L2 F' R D' B L D F L' B' F2 U' B R' U' F



(F') //block (1/1)
(B2 L' F L2) //+block (4/5)
(U2 L2) //223 (2/7)
(D F2 L D L2 F' L F) //L5C (8/15)

Skeleton: F' L' F L2 D' (1) L' F2 D' L2 U2 L2 F' L B2 F

1: B L' F2 (2) L B' L' F2 L (cancel 4)
2: F' R2 F L F' R2 F L' (cancel 3)

Final: F' L' F L2 D' B L' F R2 F L F' R2 F B' L' D' L2 U2 L2 F' L B2 F (24)

Fun 223 blockbuilding, took me a while to see that finish to 5C. Circled back to this later and found this with 20m left.





Spoiler: Attempt 3 (29): R' U' F L2 B2 L2 F2 D' L2 R2 D U' B L' F' L2 R2 D' B2 L' F U2 R' U' F



(L F R D') //EO (4/4)
L' F U2 //222 (3/7)
R F' R F' R2 D2 //223 (6/13)
F R' F' R2 F R' F' //F2L-1 (7/20)
R F' R' F R //L3C (5/25)

Skeleton: L' F U2 R F' R F' R2 D2 F R' F' R2 F R' F' R F' R' F R D R' (1) F' L'

1: R' F' L2 F R F' L2 F (cancel 4)

Final: L' F U2 R F' R F' R2 D2 F R' F' R2 F R' F' R F' R' F R D R2 F' L2 F R F' L (29)

Glad I wrote down this backup skeleton, didn't find anything else. Rough scramble for EO options, but blockbuilding was good, apparently. Wouldn't know for sure as I didn't check that. Japanese cubers there all teamed up post-attempt and found a 19 on someone's block start, but I don't have that.

Edit: Here's that 19.


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## bubbagrub (Nov 26, 2018)

Kit Clement said:


> My solutions from Hawaii 2018, 25.67 mean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice! I think you meant to write D instead of D' as the 6th move...


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## NykoCuber1 (Nov 26, 2018)

Congrats Kit !  
Hawaii 2018 3rd scramble  !

R' U' F L2 B2 L2 F2 D' L2 R2 D U' B L' F' L2 R2 D' B2 L' F U2 R' U' F 
F' U R U2 F' L B2 D R2 L2 F L B' U D' R2 L2 D F2 L2 B2 L2 F' U R

B R B U F // 222 (5)
( B2 U' B ) // EO (3)
( L2 B2 U' L' ) // 223 (4)
( U B2 U ) // 5C3E (3)

S // B R B U F U' ° B2 U' L + U B2 L2 B' U B2 (15)

° D2 U F2 U' F2 D2 3C3E (4)
+ L F L' B L * F' L' B' 3E (7) 
* R U R' F' L' B' U' B L F (1)  

Solution B R B U F D2 F2 U' F2 D2 B2 U' L2 F L' B L R U R' F' L' B L2 B' U B2 // 27 

Happy because the scramble was hard ;D !


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## Kit Clement (Nov 26, 2018)

bubbagrub said:


> Very nice! I think you meant to write D instead of D' as the 6th move...



Whoops! Thanks for noticing that, was trying to type this all up quickly before I got on the plane.


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## asacuber (Dec 3, 2018)

Sorry for double post, but I did my first twisted corner inserton!  Almost optimal too! 

33 R' U' F D R F' B R U2 L' B R' D R2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R2 L2 D L2 R' U' F
F// Partial EO(first time trying this out as well :3)
(F2 R' U F L2)U2// Complete EO+222
B2 D' R' L' D L//223
D R2 D2 R2 D2 R2 D' R' D' R D'//AB3FC(this is actually 2 gen and i noticed this now :O Ill see whether there is a nice 2gen finish, help appreciated)
Skeleton: F U2 & B2 D' R' L' D * L D R2 D2 R2 D2 R2 D' R' D' R D' L2 F' U' R F2 

insert at * : D R' D' L D R D' L' (8-6=2)
after that insert at &: R F R' B R F' R' B' (8-1=7) optimal is 6 for this

Final: 
F U2 R F R' B R F' R' B D' R' L' D2 R' D' L D R' D2 R2 D2 R2 D' R' D' R D' L2 F' U' R F2 (33)
Someone give me a nice 2gen finish, I'm working on it too because as i said I saw this just now
also tips are appreciated!


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## porkynator (Dec 6, 2018)

*New breakthrough in the theory of edge insertions (still under development)!*

(sorry for the clickbait, but I have to put it in a spoiler because the competition is ongoing, and I don't want people to ignore it because of this)

Scramble (german forum weekly #3, ongoing): R' U' F U2 F2 D2 L2 U R2 B2 L' U' F' R U' R U2 R' F2 D' L U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



Skeleton by Tommaso Raposio and insertions by me.

R' U B' //EO 3/3
L F2 L2 B2 L U' //322+pairs 6/9
(L F2 L' F2) //3e3c 4/13

Here IF with "pure insertions" only gives 26, Tommaso (and IF with "other") found a 23.

But we can do better exploiting some "Corners First" techniques:

Skeleton: R' U B' L [1] F2 L2 B2 L U' F2 L F2 [2] [3] L'
[1] = M2 //From 3 edges to 4 edges (and skew centers) (yes, that's actually better) (1)
[2] = U M2 U' //Solve edges and centers (4)
[3] = U L D' L' U' L D L' //Corners (4)

22 moves


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## asacuber (Dec 7, 2018)

can someone please contact david adams regarding the weekly fmc


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## NykoCuber1 (Dec 7, 2018)

Do speedcube.de weekly , it's better !


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## asacuber (Dec 7, 2018)

NykoCuber1 said:


> Do speedcube.de weekly , it's better !


Ok, ill try that!

Edit: Just did an fmc attempt, got a crap 36
Afterwards i tried my start again and the first thing i got was a 32 ^_^

E: Someone help me: R' U' F L B F2 L2 F' D2 L2 R2 F U2 B' D F D2 F' D F' L' D' R' U' F

what my start was: L B R U F //EO
(L' B2 U2)//222
(L' D' L2 D2)D'//223


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## asacuber (Dec 14, 2018)

Double post, but i tied my PB!(28)

R' U' F L2 F' L D2 B2 R' F2 L' F2 R D2 U2 B2 D B F2 L' B R' B2 R' U' F

B' R' U B' L' F2//222
R' B R' U2//ps223
(B' U B R U R U' B)//F2L+3C3E

Skeleton:
B' R' U B' L' F2 R' B R' U2 B' U R' U' R' B' U' B*

*= U D' R2 D F' U' B2 U F U'//10
Nested comm inside that 6 mover haha, really happy.
Optimal.


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## NykoCuber1 (Dec 14, 2018)

3rd scramble from Speedcube.de ( Sébastien has also found this solution )

R' U' F U2 R2 U2 B' L2 F2 R2 B L' R2 U' F2 R2 B2 D2 L' R2 D F2 R' U' F

F' R' B U // 222 (4)
B2 D2 //  (2)
( L2 B' L ) F2L-1 (3)
B D U B' U' B D' B // LLSKiP  (4) 

Solution F' R' B U B2 D2 B D U B' U' B D' B L' B L2 // 17 

WOW !!! PB-2


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## Cale S (Dec 17, 2018)

3rd attempt of Mega Minnesota, beat Insertion Finder by 4 moves on 4c lol 

B2 L' U B D' F' R U2 R F2 D2 F2 L2 B D2 B R2 U2 R2 L2 F R2 (scramble generated with CE) 

(L U' F R') // EO 
(D' F' U' R2) // 222
F2 L2 F D L2 D2 L2 D' F' // F2L - 1
D' F' D2 F // 21 to 4c

F2 L2 F D L2 D2 L2 D' F' @ D' F' D2 F R2 U F D R F' U L'
@ = F D F' D F' D' F2 D' F2 D2 F D2 // 12 move ZBLL cancels 5 

Solution: F2 L2 F D L2 D2 L2 F' D F' D' F2 D' F2 D2 F D F' D2 F R2 U F D R F' U L' (28)


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## Daniel Lin (Dec 17, 2018)

35, 28, 28 = 30.33 mo3 PR . Tied @Cale S on the last two!!!!!!!

Solve 1 was 20 to 4-twist, I inserted double hedge for 26 to 3E. Had 1 minute left so I just stuck U2 R U D' F2 U' D R U2 at the start.

Scramble 2: R' U' F U2 B2 U2 F2 L2 U2 R' F' D L B2 L D' L2 U' R' B' U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



D B // EO (2/2)
L2 U L2 // 123 (3/5)
D R U F2 D U' R U F2 D // 5C (10/15)

D B % L2 U L2 D ^ R U F2 D U' R U F2 D // 5C (15)
%: B2 L' U L B2 L' U' L // 3C (8-2/21)
^: D2 B U B' D2 B U' B' // (8-1/28, IF says 27 is optimal)

Final: D B' L' F L B2 L' F' L' U L2 D' B U B' D2 B U' B' R U F2 D U' R U F2 D (28)


Scramble 3: R' U' F D' U' F2 D' B2 D' R2 U2 L2 R2 F R U' B' L' B D2 B2 R2 D2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(L U' F R') // EO (4/4)
D' B' F D' // 222 (4/8)
U B U2 (U) // 223 (4/12)
(B2 U B U' L2) // 5C (5/17)

D' B' F & D' U B U2 L2 U B' U' B2 U' R F' U L' // 5C (17)
&: F U2 * F' D' F U2 F' D // 3C (8-3/22)
*: L2 F' R' F L2 F' R F // (8-2/28, IF says it's optimal)

Final: D' B' F2 U2 L2 F' R' F L2 F' R D' F U2 F' U B U2 L2 U B' U' B2 U' R F' U L' (28)


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## asacuber (Dec 18, 2018)

26.00 unofficial mean!!!!!


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## asacuber (Dec 22, 2018)

this week's fmc scramble seems to have got...umm.... popular?


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## guysensei1 (Dec 22, 2018)

Official 20 FMC single!

Tolong Diam Medan, round 1, solve 3

R' U' F L2 U2 F' L2 B2 F2 U2 R2 F' R F2 U F2 D R F2 D2 U F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(R' U' D2 B2)//222 (4/4)
F' R' U F'//223 (4/8)
U2 B (B)//F2L-1 (3-1/10)
F' U F//3e3c (3/13)

F' R' * U F' U2 B F' ** U F B D2 U R

*=R2 U' F' U F R2//3c (6-1/18)
**=F U B U' F' U B' U' (8-6/20)

Final: F' R U' F' U F R2 U F' U2 B U B U' F' U F D2 U R (20)


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## asacuber (Dec 23, 2018)

guysensei1 said:


> Official 20 FMC single!
> 
> Tolong Diam Medan, round 1, solve 3
> 
> ...




Congrats!!!!

Also congrats to fush as well


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## SpeedCubeReview (Dec 29, 2018)

What is that first insertion? I've never seen something like that before. I guess a better question is if this is something intuitive that I just need to think about more or is it some set alg that you have down for this very occasion?

Ah, I see... Just Set up move sexy. 


guysensei1 said:


> F' R' * U F' U2 B F' ** U F B D2 U R
> 
> *=R2 U' F' U F R2//3c (6-1/18)


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## guysensei1 (Dec 29, 2018)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> What is that first insertion? I've never seen something like that before. I guess a better question is if this is something intuitive that I just need to think about more or is it some set alg that you have down for this very occasion?
> 
> Ah, I see... Just Set up move sexy.


If you use Rniss at that point, the cube is an F2L-1. That insert is the optimal alg to solve the F2L pair which I learnt a while back. I saw it this way, although the setup to sexy way of viewing it is valid too, but perhaps less obvious to find


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## Tommy Kiprillis (Jan 4, 2019)

19 PB Single! Very lucky insertions.


R' U' F D2 B2 D' L2 B2 L2 R2 U F2 U2 B R U F' D2 L' D2 L2 B2 U' R' U' F

6, 4, 8

U' B D' R' // EO + 2 pairs [4/4]
U F // sq [2/6]
R2 // sq [1/7]
(B') // another sq [1/8]
F' D2 F' R2 // 223 + sq [4/12]
U // 3e4c [1/13]

Skeleton: U' B D' R' U F R2 ^ F' D2 F' R2 U B

^ - * D' L2 D // 2e2e [3/16]
* - R2 U2 L2 U2 R2 D2 // Finish [6-3/19] WTF HAHAHA

Solution: U' B D' R' U F U2 L2 U2 R2 D L2 D F' D2 F' R2 U B (19)


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## asacuber (Jan 4, 2019)

Tommy Kiprillis said:


> 6, 4, 8


???
GJ!


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## Tommy Kiprillis (Jan 4, 2019)

asacuber said:


> ???



At the top of my sheet for fmc I always label the amount of bad edges (for EO) on each axis.


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## Daniel Lin (Jan 8, 2019)

What's the probability of a scramble having

1. >=5 moves optimal EO (allowing NISS)
2. >=5 moves optimal 2x2x2 (allowing NISS)
3. both 1 and 2
4. neither 1 or 2

I assume finding 3 of these will give the 4th one


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## xyzzy (Jan 8, 2019)

Daniel Lin said:


> What's the probability of a scramble having
> 
> 1. >=5 moves optimal EO (allowing NISS)
> 2. >=5 moves optimal 2x2x2 (allowing NISS)
> ...


Not really an answer, but I once wrote a NISS block solver and I think it managed to solve a fixed 2×2×2 block (i.e. not colour neutral) in at most 5 moves >90% of the time. (Let me check again; don't quote me on this yet.)

And yes, knowing three of those will give the fourth.

E: Ran 40 solves (fixed block, as mentioned above).
4 moves: 8
5 moves: 21
6 moves: 11
So ">90%" was an exaggeration. For CN block, this seems to suggest that it's almost always possible to do it in at most 5 moves, 4 if you're somewhat lucky. Without NISS/premoves, this is the distribution.


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## Tommy Kiprillis (Jan 12, 2019)

Cologne Open 2018, Scramble 2 -- Best result on this at the comp was 28 (?)

R' U' F R2 B D2 U2 B D2 L2 B2 R2 F' D' L' F R' B2 L R2 F D R' U' F

24

B' // 2 pairs [1/1]
F' D' // sq + 3 pairs [2/3]
(B2 R) // sq + 123 [2/5]
(F D2 F2) // 222 + 123 [3/8]
B' U' (U) // F2L-1 [3/11]
(L' B' L' B) // F2L [4/15]
(B' U' L' U L B L2) // 3c [7-2/20]

Skeleton: B' F' D' B' U' L2 B' L' U' L U L B L U' F2 D2 F' ^ R' B2

^ - F2 R' B' R F2 R' B R [8-4/24]

Solution: B' F' D' B' U' L2 B' L' U' L U L B L U' F2 D2 F R' B' R F2 R' B' (24)


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## NykoCuber1 (Jan 12, 2019)

*22.67 ( 23 , 21 , 24 )Weekly FMC Mo3 !!! WOW !!!*

_1) R' U' F D2 R B2 R F2 D2 U2 L' D2 U2 R2 D' L' R' B L' B2 F2 D2 F D' R' U' F _


Spoiler



( D' F' ) // 122 (2)
( L' B R' F' U2 ) // F2L#2 (5)
( L' U' L' U ) // F2L-1 (4)
D' L2 D // 3C3E (3)

S // D' L2 D ! U' L U L U2 F * R B' L F D (14)

! L' F' L F (4)
* F' R' B R F R' B' R (5)
Solution D' L2 U' L' F' L F D L U L U2 R' B R F R' B' R2 B' L F D // 23


_2) R' U' F D F2 B' R F B2 D2 R' L F' R2 F2 L2 U2 D' F2 U F2 B2 U' R' U' F _


Spoiler



F' L D' F // Blocs (4)
( F D' L2 U2 B L' ) // F2L-1 (6)
( R D' R' D B2 ) // 4C (5)

S // F' L D' F B2 D' R D @ R' L B' # U2 L2 D F' 15

@ B' L2 B R' B' L2 B R (4)
# R' U' L U R U' L' U (7) = 26

I have time so I saw a 4C3E just after the F2L-1 and found a 21 !
F' L D' F // Blocs (4)
( F D' L2 U2 B L' ) // F2L-1 (6)
( B2 ) // 3E4C (1

Skeleton: F' & L D' F B2 L B' U2 L2 D + F' (11)

+ L B' L B L2 (5)
& D R' D' L D R D' L' (5)
Solution F' D R' D' L D R D2 F B2 L B' U2 L2 D L B' L B L2 F' // 21


3) _R' U' F L2 F' U2 L2 U2 R2 F2 D2 B D2 B' U L' U' F D' B2 L F' U' R2 D R' U' F_


Spoiler



L' B // 122 (2)
( D B' D2 ) // 223 (3)
R2 F' R // Paires (3)
( R' F R F' ) // F2L-1 (4)
R' U R F U F' // 3C (6)

S // L' B' R2 F' R F U' + F' R' U' R F R' F' R D2 B D' (18)

+ U L D' L' U' L D L' (6)
Solution L' B' R2 F' R F L D' L' U' L D L' F' R' U' R F R' F' R D2 B D' // 24


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## asacuber (Jan 13, 2019)

NykoCuber1 said:


> *22.67 ( 23 , 21 , 24 )Weekly FMC Mo3 !!! WOW !!!*
> 
> _1) R' U' F D2 R B2 R F2 D2 U2 L' D2 U2 R2 D' L' R' B L' B2 F2 D2 F D' R' U' F _
> 
> ...




Please get WR this year


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## NykoCuber1 (Jan 13, 2019)

Yes, I really want it, thanks! 
But a comp with an FMC mean is rare!


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## Tommy Kiprillis (Jan 13, 2019)

NykoCuber1 said:


> 3) _R' U' F L2 F' U2 L2 U2 R2 F2 D2 B D2 B' U L' U' F D' B2 L F' U' R2 D R' U' F_
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...




Why do you do R2 F' R? It literally doesn't make any pairs


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## NykoCuber1 (Jan 13, 2019)

Tommy Kiprillis said:


> Why do you do R2 F' R? It literally doesn't make any pairs


R2 F' R Solved the cross and create 2 pairs in 3 moves on the inverse !


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## Tommy Kiprillis (Jan 14, 2019)

NykoCuber1 said:


> and create 2 pairs



but those pairs are already made before you do R2 F' R :shrug:


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## NykoCuber1 (Jan 14, 2019)

Yes you have true, I can change it to R2 F' R // Cross  if you want !


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## xyzzy (Jan 15, 2019)

27.00 mean for last week's forum weekly comp, with three lucky solutions.



Spoiler: #1: 25 moves



scramble: R' U' F D2 R B2 R F2 D2 U2 L' D2 U2 R2 D' L' R' B L' B2 F2 D2 F D' R' U' F

L' U2 R' D B' F' D' B' U' L2
U2 R' U L U' R U F U F'
U L' U' L' B

L' U2 R' D B' // two squares (5/5)
F' D' B' U' L2 // more blocks (5/10)
(B' L2 U' L') // F2L (4/14)
(L U L' U L U' F U' F' L') // fish (10-5/19)
(L U' R' U L' U' R U2) // chips (8-2/25)

The last layer edge case is the one with edges permuted + two opposite edges flipped. One optimal alg for this is a cancellation of fruruf into Antisune, which also solves the OLLCP case for diag-pi with opposite flip. The mirror/inverse alg solve the same last layer case (at two different angles); one of the angles leads to ab4c and the other leads to ab3c. One of the 3c angles also cancels 5 moves, so of course that's the one I used. Might be the first or second time I'm using this alg in FMC.

The L3C alg at the end (which is just a Niklas + AUF) is also the optimal 3c insertion.

A 31-move solution I found near the end of the attempt (i.e. useless but interesting I guess):
(L' F2 L R F' R F2 D F) // 223 (9/9)
D' B2 D // EO (3/12)
(L' B' L' B2) // F2L-corner; AUF+ab4c2e (4/16)
(B D2 R2 U F U' R2 D B' D) // edges; AUF+ab3c (10-1/25)
(D' R D L D' R' D L2) // finish (8-2/31)

Could also have done a different 10-move EP alg to cancel one more move to get 24 to 5c, but that's even more useless. (The optimal EP alg if you can destroy one slot's corner is 9 moves iirc, but I don't have that one memorised.)





Spoiler: #2: 29 moves



scramble: R' U' F D F2 B' R F B2 D2 R' L F' R2 F2 L2 U2 D' F2 U F2 B2 U' R' U' F

U R L U' L2 U L U B2 U'
B R B R2 F' L F U2 L' U'
L U' L2 U2 L R' B' D L2

(L2 D' B R2) // p222 (4/4)
U R L U' L2 U L U B2 U' B2 // F2L-1 (11/15)
B' R B R2 // unexpected blocks; pF2L (4-1/18)
(R') // F2L (1-1/18)
(L' U2 L2 U L' U L U2 F' L' F) // 1LLL (11/29)

Literally couldn't find a single good skeleton on this, but I lucked out on the 1LLL. (Mirror of the OLLCP alg I normally use for this case; the normal RUF 3-gen OLLCP alg cancels one move, but leads to a U perm.)

Backup (34):
... B2 // F2L-1
B' R B R' U2 B' R B R' // EOLS (9-1/23)
F' U' L' U L F2 R U R' U' F' // 2GLL (11/34)

(Fun fact: I also encountered this same pi 2GLL case in the attempt of my 32 former NR single… although I didn't know the optimal alg at the time, only the 2-gen alg (13 moves), so I did some stuff differently to force a different 11-move 2GLL alg.) Also noticed you can do a 3-move insert for the last pair (cancelling one move) and get an 11-move antiZBLL… Edge control doesn't always pay off.

... B2 // F2L-1
B' U2 B // F2L (3-1/17)
(L' B' U2 B2 U L U' L' B' U2 L) // 1LLL (11/28)





Spoiler: #3: 27 moves



scramble: R' U' F L2 F' U2 L2 U2 R2 F2 D2 B D2 B' U L' U' F D' B2 L F' U' R2 D R' U' F

L' B' R2 F' U' F' R D R' B'
U2 L U R2 U L' U' R2 L U'
L' B2 U2 L' B' L R2

L' B' R2 F' U' F' R D // 222 + square + two pairs (8/8)
R' B' U // join stuff (3/11)
(R2 L' B L U2 B2) // F2L-corner (6/17)
(L U L' U L U2 L' U') // ab3c (8-1/24)
Skeleton: L' B' R2 F' U' F' R D R' B' U2 L U2 @ L' U' L U' L' B2 U2 L' B' L R2
@ = U' R2 U L' U' R2 U L // 5 cancel (8-5/27)

Mediocre skeleton but very lucky insertion. Found an 11-move 4c3e skeleton really late; ran out of time trying to find insertions. (Looks like Tommy Kiprillis found the same 4c3e skeleton, lol.)

(D B' D2 R' U R2) U2 // 222 + square + three pairs (7/7)
(B2 L' B' L2) // more blocks (4/11)



All three solutions were found relatively early (25 minutes, 29 minutes, 15 minutes) so that took a lot of pressure off these attempts. Getting lucky isn't a crime.


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## Tommy Kiprillis (Jan 16, 2019)

NykoCuber1 said:


> Yes you have true, I can change it to R2 F' R // Cross  if you want !


yeah that makes the most sense. 

Also, you should say 'Yes you are true', not 'yes you have true'


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## NykoCuber1 (Jan 16, 2019)

Ok , thank you !


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## Hssandwich (Jan 20, 2019)

TGBBO FMC Solutions, 25.00 (feat. 17 WR single) and 24.33 means 

Round 1

#1: 27


Spoiler



R' U' F U' B2 F2 R2 B2 D F2 U' B2 F' U' F2 D L R D' U2 B L' D2 R' U' F

(B R L2 U2 B2 D' B') // pseudo 2x2x3
(F2 D' L) // F2L-1
(F D' F') // 13 to 3e4c

Skeleton: F D F' L' D ^ F2 B D & B2 U2 L2 R' B'
& F D2 F' D2 * //17 to 5c
* D2 F U F' D2 F U' F' (4 cancel)
^ R B2 R' F2 R B2 R' F2 (2 cancel)

Solution: F D F' L' D R B2 R' F2 R B2 R' B D F D2 U F' D2 F U' F' B2 U2 L2 R' B' (27)

Nothing too special about this one, besides the fact I found the all the insertions in the last 15 minutes.



#2: 31


Spoiler



R' U' F L U2 R D2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D2 R2 B' R' D' R2 D B D' L B F U' R' U' F

(L') F' L2 //square
U' L U' L2 U' D' F' R2 (D') //F2L-1
(F R F2 R' F D' F D) //F2L
(D2 F' D L D' F D2 F' D' L' D F) //LL

Solution: F' L2 U' L U' L2 U' D' F' R2 F' D' L D F D2 F' D L' D' F D F' D F' R F2 R' F' D L (31)

Obviously a bad solve, unfortunately missed the lovely EO which @porkynator found, but oh well!
I got too transfixed with this:
(L') F' L2 //square
D2 R2 //another square and a lot of pairs
But didn't find much at all from it.



#3: 17


Spoiler



R' U' F D' L2 B2 R2 B2 U F2 D U F2 R2 F D R2 B L D' B2 R' D' F2 R' U' F

R L' D' L //EO
(R2 F') //domino
U' R2 D' L2 D' L2 D //domino on all axis
F2 U2 F2 L2 // finish

Solution: R L' D' L U' R2 D' L2 D' L2 D F2 U2 F2 L2 F R2 (17)

Obviously the WR single and very, very lucky to find that domino!! Very happy that I managed to find the optimal solution in the end too, shame it was a bad mean already :/



Round 2
#1: 25


Spoiler



R' U' F D' L2 U' L2 F2 D' L2 R2 D' L' B2 D' L2 R U L B U B2 F R' U' F

B' U D' B // 2x2x2
(F2 R) //pseudo 2x2x3
L F2 L' R' //pseudo F2L-1
U' F U2 //13 to 3e3c

B' U D' B $ L F2 % L' R' U' F U2 R' F2
% L2 R' F' U' F U R L2 (3 cancel, 18 to 3c)
$ B L2 B' R B L2 B' R' (1 cancel)

Solution:
B' U D' B2 L2 B' R B L2 B' R' L F2 L2 R' F' U' F U L U' F U2 R' F2 (25)

Nice stuff here, missed @fabdabs1234 20 as well as @Robert-Y 's insertion (I found the skeleton though). Nice blockbuilding skeleton with average insertions.



#2: 25


Spoiler



R' U' F R D2 B2 D2 L2 F2 L B2 R F2 L F R B' D2 F' D2 U F2 R' F' R' U' F

B' R' D' F2 B' L' U2 // pseudo 2x2x3
D F' R F // EO
D R' D R D2 F2 R2 //18 to 3e3tc

Skeleton: B' R' ¥ D' F2 B' L' U2 D F' R F D R' D R D2 F2 R2
¥ B D' B' D2 B D2 B' D' (1 cancel)

Solution: B' R' B D' B' D2 B D2 B' D2 F2 B' L' U2 D F' R F D R' D R D2 F2 R2 (25)

A nice insertion saved this one thankfully, made up for missing the 3e3tc insertion on the last solve  Not a great scramble in general, also had this 16 to 3e3c:
B' R' D' F2 B' L' U2 (R) // 2x2x3
(L D' L' B R F2 R' B') //16 to 3e3c



#3: 23


Spoiler



R' U' F U2 B2 D' R2 D F2 L2 R2 U' R2 U R' B F' L' F2 B2 R2 U' B2 D' R' U' F

F2 L B // EO
(L B2 D') // square
D' B2 // two more squares
F2 U' R // 11 to 4e4c

Skeleton: F2 L B D' B2 F2 U' R D B2 & L' *
* U2 R L D L' R' U2 (18 to 3c)
& D L' U L D' L' U' L (3 cancel)

Solution: F2 L B D' B2 F2 U' R D B2 D L' U L D' L' U R L D L' R' U2 (23)

Very happy with this! Love me a bit of 4e4c, unfortunately I couldn't find a way to fully setup to a move, but doing it to 3c is also nice 
I also had this really nice skeleton (11 to 4e4ce3c, which I couldn't find anything better than 24.

Same skeleton as before: F2 L B D' B2 F2 ₩ U' R D B2 L' ^
^ L R D' R' L' (14 to 4e3c, 2 cancel)
₩ F2 Fw2 (5 cancel )
New skeleton:
F2 L B D2 L U Fw2 R D' R' L' // 11 to 3c4e4ce
From here I found:
F2 L B D2 L U Fw2 R ÷ D' R' L'
÷ L U' L' ^ D' L U L' D (3 cancel)
^ R' U R' F2 Fw2 R U' R (24)



What a competition.


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## fabdabs1234 (Jan 21, 2019)

GBBO solutions: 29.33 and 25.00 means with 20 single 

Round 1
#1


Spoiler



R' U' F U' B2 F2 R2 B2 D F2 U' B2 F' U' F2 D L R D' U2 B L' D2 R' U' F
F' U R D2 L B' U2 D R' L' D' F2 U F B2 U F2 D' B2 R2 F2 B2 U F' U R

(B R L2 U2 B2 D' B' F2 D' L) //f2l -1
(B F D' F' D B') //f2l
(L D B D' B' L' D') //3c

D L B D B' D' L' B D' F [F' L B L' F L B' L' ]D F' B' L' D F2 B D B2 U2 L2 R' B' (29)

cheeky backup i found in not very many minutes



#2


Spoiler



R' U' F L U2 R D2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D2 R2 B' R' D' R2 D B D' L B F U' R' U' F
F' U R U F' B' L' D B' D' R2 D R B R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 R2 D2 R' U2 L' F' U R

F' U B U L2 R U' B' L // 223
(U2 B U B' R U') //f2l

[D2 [F' R B2 R' F R B2 R' ]R' D' R D2 R' D' R D]F' U B U L2 R U' B' L U R' B U' B' U2 (31)

eww, couldnt finish what looked like a good start, guess i should learn optimal zbll.



#3


Spoiler



R' U' F D' L2 B2 R2 B2 U F2 D U F2 R2 F D R2 B L D' B2 R' D' F2 R' U' F
F' U R F2 D R B2 D L' B' R2 D' F' R2 F2 U' D' F2 U' B2 R2 B2 L2 D F' U R

R U (D2 R' F L2) //222 with extra move
(R B2 D') //square
(R2 F D F' D2 R2) //f2l/3e3c

R U R2 * D2 F D' F' R2 D B2 R' L2 F' R D2

*[R B R' U2 D2 L F' L' U2 D2]

R U R' [R D' R' U R D R' U']B R' U2 D2 L F' L' U2 F D' F' R2 D B2 R' L2 F' R D2 (28)

might have missed the 6 move domino oops.



Round 2
#1


Spoiler



R' U' F D' L2 U' L2 F2 D' L2 R2 D' L' B2 D' L2 R U L B U B2 F R' U' F
F' U R F' B2 U' B' L' U' R' L2 D B2 L D R2 L2 D F2 L2 U L2 D F' U R

B' U D' B //222
(F2 R U R2 U R2 U D' F D R) //3e

B' U D' B R' D' F' D [R' L F' R2 F R L' U' R2 U] U' R2 U' R2 U' R' F2

B' U D' B R' D' F' D R' L F' R2 F R L' U2 R2 U' R' F2 (20)

yay, glad I got a nice single after missing the domino
Edit: Also overall PB 



#2


Spoiler



R' U' F R D2 B2 D2 L2 F2 L B2 R F2 L F R B' D2 F' D2 U F2 R' F' R' U' F
F' U R F R F2 U' D2 F D2 B R' F' L' F2 R' B2 L' F2 L2 D2 B2 D2 R' F' U R

(B2 D') D R' //222
U' B L B2 L2 //223
B2 U2 B' L' B2 L U' L U2 L' B'

[R' U R D R' U' R D']D R' U' B L B2 L2 B2 U2 B' L' B2 L U' L U2 L' B' D B2

R' U [U' B' D' B U B' D B] R D R' U2 B L B2 L2 B2 U2 B' L' B2 L U' L U2 L' B' D B2 (29)

inserted with not much time left, so not too disappointed to have only missed optimal by 1



#3


Spoiler



R' U' F U2 B2 D' R2 D F2 L2 R2 U' R2 U R' B F' L' F2 B2 R2 U' B2 D' R' U' F
F' U R D B2 U R2 B2 F2 L F B' R U' R2 U R2 L2 F2 D' R2 D B2 U2 F' U R

(L D' F D' F') //222
(U R B')//ps223
(R2 U' F' U' F R2 U' R B2) //5c

B2 R' U R2 F' [B U F U' B' U F' U']U F U R2 B R' U' F D F' D L'

B2 R' U R2 F' B U F U' [U L2 U' R U L2 U' R'] B' U2 R2 B R' U' F D F' D L' (26)

fairly happy with this really boring solve


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## porkynator (Jan 22, 2019)

It's my turn then!



Spoiler: First round, 24.00 WR



1. R' U' F U' B2 F2 R2 B2 D F2 U' B2 F' U' F2 D L R D' U2 B L' D2 R' U' F
Solution: B2 F' U R2 F D F' U' F D' B' R D2 B' L F' L' B2 L F L' R' D2 B U' F' R L' F' B' (30)


Spoiler



On inverse:
B F L R' F U //222 + 2 pairs (6/6)
B' D2 //Square (2/8)
R # B' R' * B' //3e4c (4/12)

* = R D2 R' B F' + U R2 U' F B' //Leaves 4c (7/19)
+ = F D F' U F D' F' U' (4)
# = L F' L' B2 L F L' B2 (7)

I have found the skeleton with around 20 minutes left, without any other backup skeleton or solution whatsoever. I did a quick pass to check if I could insert a sexy move to solve edges, and I couldn't find anything. I decided to just insert edges and go on with 4 corners. I am fairly sure that my insertions are not optimal, but I am still satisfied that I managed not to panick and still hand in a half-decent solve.

Completely missed the F2L-1 in 10 moves 



2. R' U' F L U2 R D2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D2 R2 B' R' D' R2 D B D' L B F U' R' U' F
Solution: F' U' D' B2 F2 L F R2 F' L' F D L2 D L D' L2 U2 R2 U R' U' R' U2 (24)


Spoiler



F' U' D' F' //EO + pair + square (4/4)
B2 * R2 D //222 + square (3/7)
L2 D //321 (2/9)
L D' L2 //3e5c (3/12)
U2 R2 U R' U' R' U2 //3c (7/19)

* = F' L F R2 F' L' F R2 (5)

This time I was the only one that did NOT miss that nice start 



3. R' U' F D' L2 B2 R2 B2 U F2 D U F2 R2 F D R2 B L D' B2 R' D' F2 R' U' F
Solution: R L' D' L D2 U B2 D' R2 D' U2 R2 U2 R2 D' L2 F' R2 (18)


Spoiler



R L' D' L //EO (4/4)
(R2 F) //Domino Reduction (2/6)

First solution (19):
(L2 U F2 U' D' L2) 6
(U D2 F2 D R2 D' U2) 7

Second solution (18) (it's the same on U/D layers):
(L2 D R2 U2 R2) 5
(U2 D R2 D B2 U' D2) 7

At first I used (R2 F') to make that extra square, but I could not finish the domino solve from there. Changing F' to F gave an easier (in my opinion) but sub-optimal (objectively  ) solve. I found the 18 in about 20 minutes total. The two solutions that I have found are the same if you disregard the E layer; I have tried improving it further with the same strategy, possibly leaving some E-layer edges unsolved and inserting them, without success.



EDIT: reconstruction video


Spoiler
















Spoiler: Final, 25.33



1. R' U' F D' L2 U' L2 F2 D' L2 R2 D' L' B2 D' L2 R U L B U B2 F R' U' F
Solution: B' U D' B L F2 L2 U F R F' L F R' F' U' R' F' U' F2 U2 R' F2 (23)


Spoiler



B' U D' B //222 + pair (4/4)
(F2 R U') //Pseudo 223 (3/7)
L F2 L' R' //F2L-1 (4/11)
L' * U L U' F' U' F2 U //2c (6-2/17, cancelling also with premove)

* = R U + L U' R' U L' U' (0) Free insertion club!
+ = F R F' L F R' F' L' (6)

Lucky insertions 
Fun fact: when I wrote down the skeleton I first thought it was 20 moves. Then I realised that the last U cancelled with the premoves. Then I saw the L' R' L'. Finally, it took me some good 5 minutes to realise that I had left there san F2 (after the 222) that was used for a different skeleton, but not for this one.



2. R' U' F R D2 B2 D2 L2 F2 L B2 R F2 L F R B' D2 F' D2 U F2 R' F' R' U' F
Solution: B2 L' U' L U B R' U' L2 U' B U' L' B U B' U B U2 B' U2 L2 B' U D B2 D (27)


Spoiler



B' R' //2 pairs + pseudo square (2/2)
(D' B2 D') //Xcross (3/5)
(U' B L' U B' U2) //F2L-1 (6/11)
R B' L' U' L U B R' U' L2 U //3ct3e (7/18)

Skeleton: B2 L' U' L U B R' U' L2 U' B U' L * B' U D B2 D
* = L2 B U B' U B U2 B' U2 L2

Is it the international Sune-insertion day?



3. R' U' F U2 B2 D' R2 D F2 L2 R2 U' R2 U R' B F' L' F2 B2 R2 U' B2 D' R' U' F
Solution: F2 L B U R2 U F2 L D2 R2 U R U2 R U2 R2 D R' U R D' R2 U' R U' R' (26)


Spoiler



F2 L B //EO + 3 pairs (3/3)
U R2 U F2 L D2 //223 (6/9)
R2 U R U2 R //F2L-1 + pair (5/14)
U2 R * U R' U' R U' R' //3c (8/22)

* = R D R' U R D' R' U' (4)


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## Lvl9001Wizard (Jan 23, 2019)

Hi, I'm new around here, I've only been cubing for less than 3 months. I recently found out about FMC and I'm extremely interested in it. I read some basic resources and understand most of the theory. I would appreciate advice on these solves and on what my next steps should be.

(The first file that I found, so that's why I had a shot on these first)
(Scrambles from FMC Europe 2015 Round 1)
http://kubing.no/files/scrambles/eurofmc2015.pdf

Scramble 1: B R F2 L U' L D2 B L B2 U' F2 U B2 R2 D F2 L2



Spoiler: 41 moves



I spent 1.5+ hours on this one.

U' F L2 U' F * (5/5) 2x2x2 block
D2 F D F' D R D' B R' (9/14) 2x2x3 block
R D' R' B2 D2 B' (6/20) F2L-1
(B R' B' R B R' B' R) (8/28) F2L
D R D R' D R D2 R' D (9/37) All but 3 corners
* = R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 (8/45) L3C
4 moves cancel

Final: U' F L2 U' F R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' F D F' D R D' B D' R' B2 D2 B' D R D R' D R D2 R' D R' B R B' R' B R B' (41)

Overall I think this was a solid first try, I learnt many things here, for example at first I ended up having 4 bad edges for last layer, which I found out is really bad so I need to pay more attention to EO.



I spent 1.5+ hours on this one.

Scramble 2: U' L' D' F' D B' D' B' U L2 F L2 F L2 D2 F' L2 B' R2


Spoiler: 32 moves



(U2 B U') (3/3) 2x2x2 block
(R' D' F' R' F2 R2) (6/9) 2x2x3 block
(D F' D) (3/12) F2L-1
(L D' L' D2 F D') (6/18) F2L
D F D' F D F2 D' F' * (8/26) All but 3 corners
* = R U' R' D R U R' D' (8/34) L3C
2 moves cancel

Final: D F D' F D F2 D' F' R U' R' D R U R' F' D2 L D L' D' F D' R2 F2 R F D R U B' U2 (32)

I spent about 50 minutes to find F2L in 18 moves, mostly because I kept trying stuff in the normal direction, only to get nothing but then go to the inverse and instantly find a quick solution for each of the F2L steps.

So far I got 2 moves cancelling insertions twice. I think I'm happy with that. I checked with insertion finder for this solve and there were insertions cancelling 4 moves instead of 2.



Scramble 3: U2 F' R D B' D' F2 L' D2 R' F B2 U' L2 B2 U2 D B2 D B2



Spoiler: 41 moves



This time I decided stay in the time limit so only one hour.

D' R F U2 D' F2 (6/6) 2x2x2 block
L2 U' B L' (4/10) 2x2x3 block
U L U' R L' B' R' (7/17) F2L-1
U' R' U R2 B' R' B (7/24) F2L
R' U' R U' R' U2 R U' (8/32) All but 3 corners
L' B L' F2 L B' L' F2 L2 (9/41) L3C
Final: D' R F U2 D' F2 L2 U' B L' U L U' R L' B' R' U' R' U R2 B' R' B R' U' R U' R' U2 R U' L' B L' F2 L B' L' F2 L2 (41)

This one was quite lame as I didn't go to the inverse, but at least I finished on time. I wasn't sure but I thought I was making lots of pairs? idk
I couldn't find an insertion for last 3 corners, so I just did a normal A-perm at the end. I checked with insertion finder and turns out I missed a lot of places, there were 4 spots to insert which gave 34 move solutions instead (6 moves cancel).



And yes, my method was coincidentally the same for all 3, Petrus but EO could be at 2x2x3 or F2L-1, then for last layer I explore many possibilities hoping for a pll skip, but there was none. So I did one sune from a certain angle to permute all the edges as well as one corner, which leaves a 3 corner insertion. I never even solved the cube with petrus before.

Some final questions:
Is there some weekly competition online? Theres one on the reddit page r/cubers but is there also one here?
How many moves should a 2x2x2 block take? (any colour allowed, doesn't have to be fixed) I feel like I can't always do it in 5 moves or less. Is there a computer program which solves 2x2x2 blocks so maybe I can go practice using that?

Again, I appreciate any help I can get.


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## h2f (Jan 23, 2019)

1. After f2l-1 solve only last edge of slot and top edges.
2. Do insertions for last 3, 4 of 5 corners
3. Try edge orientation (EO) first sometimes.


Lvl9001Wizard said:


> Is there some weekly competition online?



Fewest moves group on FB. Weekly competiotion here. 

Good luck.


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## porkynator (Jan 23, 2019)

In general, after F2L-1 avoid completing the F2L (unless you get all but 3 corners or a skip this way). As h2f said, try solving all edges and see if it is possible to solve the corners with two insertions; or you can try building last-layer "blocks" like in the Heise methods, and leave 3 corners.

There is a weekly competition in this forum. Another popular one is the German forum competition. This other one has been gaining popularity recently.

For a 2x2x2 block more than 5 moves can also be good, if they leave a good continuation (i.e. more blocks are solved, or are easy to solve, or EO is done). Check out HARCS for optimal blocks. You might also like Block Trainer.

Lastly, check out my tutorial  Most of the advice I can give is already contained in there.


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## Lvl9001Wizard (Jan 23, 2019)

Thanks @h2f and @porkynator, I'm currently halfway through a solve, I tried EO first and got F2L-1 in 11 moves! (with the edge in the last slot solved)


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## theos (Jan 23, 2019)

My GBBO solves. Only 5th in round 1 and 6th in the final but good enough for successive African records.



Spoiler: Round 1: 31.33 mean



1. 
Scramble: R' U' F U' B2 F2 R2 B2 D F2 U' B2 F' U' F2 D L R D' U2 B L' D2 R' U' F


Spoiler: 31 moves



2x2x1: B D' [2/2]
2x2x2: (R F2) [2/4]
2x2x3: B U L' B [4/8]
EO: F U F' [3/11]
F2L-1: (U2 L U' * L U L' U' L2 U L) [10/21]
AB3C: (L U2 L' U) [3/24]
Insert corners at *: (D L' U2 L D' L' U2 L) [7/31]

Solution: B D' B U L' B F U F' U' L U2 L2 U' L2 U L U' L2 U2 L D L' U2 L D' U L' U2 F2 R' (31 moves)



2.
Scramble: R' U' F L U2 R D2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D2 R2 B' R' D' R2 D B D' L B F U' R' U' F 


Spoiler: 31 moves



pseudo-2x2x2: F' U B U L2 [5/5]
pseudo-2x2x3: (U2 L') [2/7]
2x2x3: R U' [2/9]
EO: F L' D L F' [5/14]
F2L-1: R' * B R2 B R2 B R2 @ B [8/22]
AB4C: B R' B' [2/24]
Insert corners at *: R F R' B R F' R' B' [1/25]
Insert corners at @: D' F' D B2 D' F D B2 [6/31] 

Solution: F' U B U L2 R U' F L' D L R' B R F' R B R2 B R2 D' F' D B2 D' F D R' B' L U2 (31 moves)



3.
Scramble: R' U' F D' L2 B2 R2 B2 U F2 D U F2 R2 F D R2 B L D' B2 R' D' F2 R' U' F


Spoiler: 32 moves



2x2x2: B' * U' F D' R2 [5/5]
2x2x3: (L2 F2 U' L F' L2) [6/11]
EO: R U R' (R @ U R') [5/16]
AB5C: F U' F U' F U2 F2 U F2 [9/25]
Insert corners at *: F D' F' U' F D F' U [2/27]
Insert corners at @: (R' D R U2 R' D' R U2) [5/32]

Solution: F B' D' F' U' F R' U R' F U' F U' F U2 F2 U F2 R U R' D R U2 R' D' L2 F L' U F2 L2 (32 moves)








Spoiler: Final: 31.00 mean (AfR mean)



1.
Scramble: R' U' F D' L2 U' L2 F2 D' L2 R2 D' L' B2 D' L2 R U L B U B2 F R' U' F


Spoiler: 27 moves (AfR single)



2x2x2: B' U D' B [4/4]
2x2x3: (F2 R U R2 U2) [5/9]
EO: (D R D' *) [3/12]
pseudo-F2L-1: (R2 F' R2) [3/15]
AB5C: R' F' R' @ F' [4/19] - found an AB4C skeleton in the same move count but this gave better insertions
Insert corners at *: (D R' U' R D' R' U R) [2/21]
Insert corners at @: R' B' R F2 R' B R F2 [6/27]

Solution: B' U D' B R' F' R2 B' R F2 R' B R F R2 F R U' R D R' U' D' R2 U' R' F2 (27 moves)



2.
Scramble: R' U' F R D2 B2 D2 L2 F2 L B2 R F2 L F R B' D2 F' D2 U F2 R' F' R' U' F


Spoiler: 31 moves



pseudo-2x2x2: (R2 U D2 R2) [4/4]
2x2x3: B2 R' B U2 L U L [7/11]
partial EO: (R B2 * R') [2/13]
F2L-1: B U' [2/15]
AB5C: L' B' L B2 [4/19]
Insert corners at *: (B2 U' F' U @ B2 U' F U) [6/25]
Insert corners at @: (U2 B' D' B U2 B' D B) [6/31]

Solution: B2 R' B U2 L U L B U' L' B' L B2 R U' F' U B D' B U2 B' D B U F U R D2 U' R2 (31 moves)



3.
Scramble: R' U' F U2 B2 D' R2 D F2 L2 R2 U' R2 U R' B F' L' F2 B2 R2 U' B2 D' R' U' F 


Spoiler: 35 moves



2x2x2: (L D' U2 F) F [5/5]
2x2x3: (@ R' D' B' D2 B') B [6/11]
EO: B' D2 B (B R * B') [2/13]
F2L-1: (D2 R' D R D2 R' D2 R2) [8/21]
AB4C: (D' R' D' R) [4/25]
Insert corners at *: (R' B' L B R B' L' B) [4/29]
Insert corners at @: (B R' F' R B' R' F R) [6/35]

Solution: F D2 B R' D R D R2 D2 R D2 R' D' R D2 L B R' B' L' B D2 B D F' R B R' F R B' F' U2 D L' (35 moves)


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## xyzzy (Jan 23, 2019)

Anyone know roughly how many moves 4c3e and 3c3e insertions use on average?

Rough estimate says those should take around 5 (3e without preserving corners) + 5 (3c) + 6 (3c) = 16 moves and 8 (3e) + 6 (3c) = 14 moves respectively, but I use 4c3e/3c3e skeletons so rarely that I don't know whether these estimates are reasonable.


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## Hssandwich (Jan 23, 2019)

I think estimating something that does not use pure insertions is impossible really, there can be so much variance (with 3e4c that is). There could be a way to insert 4 moves to solve it, somewhere to insert 4 moves to leave 3c, to leave 4/5c or maybe even nowhere at all to insert 4 or 5 moves to solve edges. With 3c3e it's a bit easier to estimate, I'd go for about 12 move average with pure insertions, bringing it down to 11 with reverse NISS.


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## Lvl9001Wizard (Jan 24, 2019)

Lvl9001Wizard said:


> I tried EO first and got F2L-1 in 11 moves! (with the edge in the last slot solved)



I couldn't find a good continuation, can someone have a look?
Note: This is from the current weekly competition on reddit

Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 U' F2 D' L2 D' B2 F2 U' R B2 F2 U F D' B D2 R' U' F



Spoiler: 11 move F2L - 1



Inverse Scramble: F' U R D2 B' D F' U' F2 B2 R' U F2 B2 D L2 D F2 U R2 U2 F' U R

(R2 D' B') (3/3) EO
(U R' L2 U') (4/7) 2x2x2
(D R2 F2) (3/10) 2x2x3
(D) (1/11) F2L-1



And I end up with an opposite edge swap for the last layer. I would be happy to see someone do a continuation on this (or improve the previous moves to get a better last layer position). But of course I tried to continue it myself.



Spoiler: Rest of my solution (bad)



Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 U' F2 D' L2 D' B2 F2 U' R B2 F2 U F D' B D2 R' U' F
Inverse Scramble: F' U R D2 B' D F' U' F2 B2 R' U F2 B2 D L2 D F2 U R2 U2 F' U R

(R2 D' B') (3/3) EO
(U R' L2 U') (4/7) 2x2x2
(D R2 F2) (3/10) 2x2x3
(D) (1/11) F2L-1
R' D R D' R' D' F D2 R' D' R' D R D' F' (15/26) All but 5 corners, underlined is T-perm
Skeleton: R' [1] D R D' R' D' F D2 R' D' R' D R D' F' D' F2 R2 D' [2] U L2 R U' B D R2
[1] = R' U' R D R' U R D'
[2] = D R' D' L' D R D' L
7 moves cancel

Final: R2 U' R D R' U R2 D' R' D' F D2 R' D' R' D R D' F' D' F2 R D' L' D R D' L U L2 R U' B D R2 (35)

I only knew the normal PLLs, so I just did the 14 move (probably not optimal) T-perm to solve all edges and left with a 5 cycle of corners.
This time I managed to find the most optimal insertions but I took nearly half an hour.



Also how are insertions done by most people? Do you just go through the entire skeleton and choose the insertion which cancels the most moves? I do it this way and I take 10+ minutes, and still miss a ton of good insertions. Will I get faster through practice or is there another strategy that doesn't requiring brute forcing the whole skeleton?


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## BenBergen (Jan 24, 2019)

Lvl9001Wizard said:


> I couldn't find a good continuation, can someone have a look?
> Note: This is from the current weekly competition on reddit
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 U' F2 D' L2 D' B2 F2 U' R B2 F2 U F D' B D2 R' U' F
> ...



Probably not super helpful, but here's an easy continuation you could do that gives a PLL skip
(R2 D' R D R2 D' R D) - F2L
(U R U' R U R2 U' R2) - OLL + PLL skip



Lvl9001Wizard said:


> Also how are insertions done by most people? Do you just go through the entire skeleton and choose the insertion which cancels the most moves? I do it this way and I take 10+ minutes, and still miss a ton of good insertions. Will I get faster through practice or is there another strategy that doesn't requiring brute forcing the whole skeleton?



I'm in the same boat. Finding optimal or at least really good insertions for 5C takes me 20-25 minutes. Though I'm by no means a top FMC solver. I have found some tricks though that speed up the process a bit. One good one is that when looking for your first insertion for 5C there's no need to check all 5 of the cycles after each move when walking through the skeleton. Only check cycles where the previous move rotated two stickers on an interchange plane. For example, say your insertion stickers are in the following positions:

1-UBL
2-UBR
3 - FRD
4 - FRU
5 - LBD

1 and 2 are on the U interchange plane. 2 and 4 are on the R interchange plane. etc. If the previous move in your skeleton was a U, U' or U2, you would only check insertions for 5-1-2 and 1-2-3. If it was an R, R' or R2 you would only check insertions for 2-3-4. The reason for this is that any insertion that cancels 3 or more moves is guaranteed to show up in this form where two stickers are rotated on an interchange plane during the skeleton. With 5C insertions there's a very good chance that at least one cycle will cancel 3 moves or more. So you're still able to find the optimal first insertion but by checking many fewer cycles. Of course this method won't give the optimal insertions if you get unlucky and your second insertion doesn't cancel anything or only cancels one. But in my opinion the amount of time saved is definitely makes it worthwhile.


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## asacuber (Jan 24, 2019)

Roughly how much time should i spend on a start? I just got a DNF today because of time trouble :/


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## Sidster (Jan 24, 2019)

Hi everyone, I've been trying to get sub 30 for a while now and would just like some advice. Here's my most recent solve which IF confirmed was optimal: 



Spoiler



R' U' F D' F2 R2 D' F2 L2 F2 U' R2 D' F' R D2 F2 D' B' U R' F2 U' R' U' F

B' D' B // 2x2x1 3/3
L' U' F // 3x2x1 3/6
(U2 L U B' U) // 2x2x3 + 2 Bars 5/11
(R2 B R B' D2 F' R F) // Square + 2 Bars 8/19
(B) // Square 1/20
(R') // another 1x2x3 1/21
(B' D' R D2) // twisted L3C 4/25

Skeleton

B' D' B L' U' F D2 R' D B R B' F' R' F D2 B R' B' R2 U' B U' L' * U2

* L U R' U' L' U R U' // 8-5/28

New Skeleton

# B' D' B L' U' F D2 R' D B R B' F' R' F D2 B R' B' R2 U' B R' U' L' U R U

# R' F R B' R' F' R B // 8-2/34

R' F R B' R' F' R D' B L' U' F D2 R' D B R B' F' R' F D2 B R' B' R2 U' B R' U' L' U R U (34)


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## theos (Jan 24, 2019)

Lvl9001Wizard said:


> I couldn't find a good continuation, can someone have a look?
> Note: This is from the current weekly competition on reddit
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 U' F2 D' L2 D' B2 F2 U' R B2 F2 U F D' B D2 R' U' F
> ...



Other than the F2L into LL skip that @BenBergen already showed, the best continuations I found were:

(D' R' D R' D' R' D R D' R2 D R2) for AB2C in 21 moves (solving in 29 moves)
(D' R' D R' D' R D R2 D' R' D) for AB5C in 20 moves (also solving in 29 moves)
Both of these effectively insert an R-face move before the F2L-1 step to avoid the "2 swapped edges" case.


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## asacuber (Jan 26, 2019)

Hssandwich said:


> *U2 R L D L' R' U2*



Congrats!
How did you come to know about this alg though? Or did you just try some stuff on rNISS?


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## Hssandwich (Jan 27, 2019)

asacuber said:


> Congrats!
> How did you come to know about this alg though? Or did you just try some stuff on rNISS?


I stickered up everything, and tried to setup everything to one move away. I couldn't do the whole layer efficiently, so I solved a layer minus a corner to leave 3c.


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## theos (Jan 27, 2019)

Sidster said:


> Hi everyone, I've been trying to get sub 30 for a while now and would just like some advice. Here's my most recent solve which IF confirmed was optimal:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Couldn't find anything sub-30 with your start. Eventually, after trying a bunch of different starts (more than I ever could in a competition time limit), I found this:
(D' B' U B2 R B') B // 2x2x2 + 2 Bars [7/7]
(R' F U2 R' F) // 2x2x3 + 1 Bar [5/12]
(S R' S') = (B F' U' B' F) // AB5C [2/14]
The 5 corners aren't in a cycle so need 3 insertions to solve. IF gives the optimal insertions as 23.


Spoiler: Insertions for 23 moves



Skeleton: B2 F' U @ B' R U2 F' * R B R' B2 U' % B D
Insert at *: F' R B R' F R B' R' [1/15]
Insert at @: L2 B' R B L2 B' R' B [4/19]
Insert at %: U B2 U' F2 U B2 U' F2 [4/23]
Solution: B2 F' U L2 B' R B L2 B' U2 F2 R B R' F U' F2 U B2 U' F2 B D (23 moves)



Not sure how this helps you, except that the more different starts you can try, the more likely you are to reach something really good.


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## asacuber (Jan 28, 2019)

can someone help me find something better from this start?

weekly comp(2019-4)



Spoiler



R' U' F B R2 D2 B R2 U2 F2 R2 F' U2 F2 L D2 B2 D F U2 L' U L R' U' F
B' U//sq
L'//set up 2 move 222 on inverse
(D')//remove edge
(B' L2)//222
(R U F2)//223
(U R')//PF2L-1


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## asacuber (Feb 2, 2019)

23 PB2, ongoing German Forum Comp



Spoiler



R' U' F U2 B F2 D2 F' U2 R2 U B L U R D' R F D B2 D2 F' R' U' F


U L F2//sq
R' L'//222+sq
(B' U)//ps223, break one sq
U B L'//F2L-1
(U B U' B L' B L B2)//AB3C

U L F2 R' L' * U B L' B2 L' B' L B' U B' U2 B

*= R B' R' F2 R B R' F2 (8-2=6)

U L F2 L' B' R' F2 R B R' F2 U B L' B2 L' B' L B' U B' U2 B

5-Gen solution lol
fun fact: I didn't mean to do the L' square, that was for another separate continuation 
yay!
stupid linear 24 i found in 8 minutes:

U L F2 R' L' B U B L' B'//F2L-1
U R' U2 R U2 R' U R2 B U B' U' R' U'//LSLL



Edit: If you find a mediocre skeleton (like say 20 to 5c which will give say 30-31) would you immediately begin finding insertions?


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## Hssandwich (Feb 4, 2019)

asacuber said:


> 23 PB2, ongoing German Forum Comp
> Edit: If you find a mediocre skeleton (like say 20 to 5c which will give say 30-31) would you immediately begin finding insertions?



Officially, possibly, but for backup skeletons it's probably better to have something that's quick to insert like (26 to 3c). I'd still write it down, but I'd be unlikely to insert unless very desperate within the last 10 mins. 
Likewise, I wouldn't do insertions until the last 15/20 minutes unless I find a really good skeleton.


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## asacuber (Feb 9, 2019)

I found this nice start for the ongoing German Forum comp (spoilers)



Spoiler



R' U' F U B2 U' F2 U F2 U' R' F2 D' B' L R2 B' U B2 L2 D B R' U' F
U B' F L'//EO
B F'//2 squares



any ideas to continue?
Also, how do you do corner orientation at the beginning(for say a DR solve)


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## porkynator (Feb 9, 2019)

asacuber said:


> I found this nice start for the ongoing German Forum comp (spoilers)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For CO-first domino reduction see Attila's solves (for example this post and the following two, one by me). I'll wrap in a spoiler everything regarding the ongoing german forum comp.


Spoiler



I have a couple of CO-first domino reductions for that scramble, with that start (I have found the reduction during the 1hr attempt but couldn't finish it):


Spoiler



First:
U B' F L' //EO
F' D B' //CO
U' R2 //Setup
F L2 R2 B' or F' L2 R2 B //DR in 13

Second:
U B' F L' //EO
F' D B' //CO
(R2 B L2 R2 F) //DR in 12
U' R2 D2 F2 * D' F2 D' F2

* = F2 D2 F2 + D2 F2 D2
+ = L2 D' R2 S2 R2 D L2 = 29



But there is also a very nice start on inverse (EO + 2 squares as well):
(D' B F' R B')


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## porkynator (Feb 15, 2019)

Following up on my last post, I have a very nice Domino Reduction solve on the last scramble of the last round of the German forum comp.

Scramble: R' U' F L F2 R' U2 B2 U2 L R2 U2 F2 L2 B L' D U' F U2 R F2 U R' U' F
Solution: R2 U R2 U' D2 B2 F2 U' B2 R2 D2 R B D B2 L2 D' L2 B2 L2 D2 F' (22)

All on inverse

F D * R2 U' F' //EO (5/5)
R' //CO (1/6)
* = D M2 D' //Domino reduction (4-1/9)

Rewrite:
F D2 R2 L2 U' R2 D' B' R' //DR (9/9)
D2 R2 + U' L2 //Corners (4/13)

+ = B2 U S2 U' B2 //solve 2 edges and centers (6/19)

Rewrite:
F D2 R2 L2 # U' R2 D' B' R' //DR (9/9)
D2 R2 B2 U F2 B2 D' $ B2 D' R2 //All but 6 edges (10/19)

# = R2 B2 L2 D L2 B2 R2 U (2)
$ = D' U R2 U' D B2 (1)


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## xyzzy (Feb 23, 2019)

Two lucky official solves in a row, aka getting lucky isn't a crime.



Spoiler: scramble #1 (27)



Scramble:
R' U' F R B2 D2 F2 L2 B2 R F2 U B R U R2 D' L U L2 R' F2 R' U' F

(F2 D R F') // 222 (4/4)
U L B2 D L D' // 223+eo (6/10)
B U B' U' // pF2L (4/14)
rewrite:
(F2 D R F' U2 B' U) // 222+adjust (7/7)
U L B2 D L D' // 223+eo (6/13)
B U2 B' U2 // F2L; ab4c (4-1/16)

Skeleton: U L B2 D @ L D' B2 U B2 U2 B U2 F R' D' F2
@ = B L F L' # B' L F' L' // 2 cancel
# = L B R2 B' L' B R2 B' // 3 cancel (11/27)

Kinda tunnel-visioned into trying to solve F2L, even though this should "obviously" have been done as ab4c directly. The first insertion I found was 3 cancel + 0 cancel; I had plenty of time left so I just tried other insertions. I normally don't bother with alternative insertions because I'm so slow at insertions.

I know an RUD alg for the ZBLL case in the B U B' U' version of F2L, but it's 13 moves (+1 move AUF) long, for a total of 29 moves. I didn't know at the time whether the RUD alg is optimal, but I just checked and it is. There's a different 13-move RUD alg that will avoid the AUF, but that would still be 28 moves total.





Spoiler: scramble #2 (24)



Scramble:
R' U' F L2 D' R2 B2 D' R2 U F2 U2 R2 U R B R2 U' L D2 B2 R2 U2 F' R' U' F

(U B' D U F2 R B2 U') // p223 + stuff (8/8)
U' B U' // adjust + EO (3/11)
L' B L' B // ab4c (4/15)

Skeleton: U' B U' L' B L' B U @ B2 # R' F2 U' D' B U'
@ = U' B' D2 B U B' D2 B // 5 cancel
# = U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R // 2 cancel (9/24)

Like for scramble #1, I initially found worse insertions that led to a 26. I found the 26 very early, and I spent like 30+ minutes trying to find better skeletons; when I gave up on that, I looked for alternative insertions and found this 24.



Didn't find a good solution for #3, so whatever. "Lucked out" on a 28-move ab3c (insertion cancelled two moves) near the end of the hour, because my backup solution was 40 moves long (lol). It's still a good mean by my standards.


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## guysensei1 (Feb 25, 2019)

27.00 mean at Singapore Championships
1)28 moves
R' U' F R B2 D2 F2 L2 B2 R F2 U B R U R2 D' L U L2 R' F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



B' L U' F **//EO+sq (4/4)
U2 B2 R D' (F2)//223 (5/9)
R' U2 * R' U'//2e4c (4/13)

*=B2 L' D2 L B2 U2 L F2 L' U2 R//to 3c (11-3/21)
**=F L2 F' R2 F L2 F' R2//rip (8-1/28)

Thoughts: I spent too much time on that 9 move EO223 with 2 pairs. Should have tried other things. Also I wrote that T perm wrongly at least 5 times during the attempt...



2)26 moves
R' U' F L2 D' R2 B2 D' R2 U F2 U2 R2 U R B R2 U' L D2 B2 R2 U2 F' R' U' F


Spoiler



(F) F D' F//EO (4/4)
D2 R//sq (2/6)
D' R' (L D2)//223 (4/10)
(L U L')//3c5e (3/13)

I found 2 26s from here but I can't remember which I submitted, IF says 27

F D' F * D2 R D' ** R' L U' L' D2 L' F'
*=D' F2 U F2 D//to 2e2c (5-1/17)
**=B2 L U' L' B2 R2 D' R' D R' (10-1/26)

F D' F D2 * R D' R' L U' L' D2 L' F'
*=D L2 U' L2 U L2 ** D' L2//to 3e (8-1/20)
**=L2 U' L' U' L U L U L U' L (11-5/26)

Thoughts: I found the same 223 as xyzzy but not the 5c skeleton...



3)27 moves
R' U' F U' R2 U' R2 U' L2 R2 F2 D2 U' R2 F' U L2 R U' F' U2 B L' D2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(L2 B' U)//EO (3/3)
(L' D2 B)//square+random D2 (3/6)
(R' F L2)//9 move 222 xd (3/9)
(B2 U2 R') U2 R//F2L-1 (5/14)
L' B' L//3e3c (3/17)

U2 R L' B' L R U2 B2 L2 F' R B' D2 * L U' B L2
*=D2 B2 U2 ** R U2 B2 D2 L (8-4/21)
**=F R B' R' F' R B R' (8-2/27)

Thoughts: 9 move 222 lol, sub-30 streak is now 18


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## asacuber (Mar 9, 2019)

are new locations going to be announced for FMC world?


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## theos (Mar 9, 2019)

From the WCA competition page:


> Locations may be added until the 30th of April 23:59UTC so if there isn't a location near you yet contact your local Delegate.


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## asacuber (Mar 9, 2019)

theos said:


> From the WCA competition page:


ah,thanks. missed that


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## asacuber (Mar 18, 2019)

finally got a sub 30 ao50. feels good


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## porkynator (Mar 22, 2019)

Reconstruction of my official 24.67 average (done at PoliMi Mental Breakdown) + video!

1.
Scramble: R' U' F R U2 B2 L F2 U2 F2 U2 L F2 L2 F' U' L B' D2 L2 B R2 B D R' U' F
Solution: R2 D' B' R F' R F' R' U' F R' F' R U R U' R F R F' R U F2 D' L' F' (26)


Spoiler



R2 D' B' R //2 squares + 2 pairs (4/4)
(F L D F2) //Pseudo 223 (4/8)
F' R F' R' //F2L-1 (4/12)
(U' R' F R' F' R2) //F2L (6/18)
(R U R' U' R' F R F' U) //LL (9-1/26)



2.
Scramble: R' U' F L2 U R2 D2 B2 D' B2 U B2 U' F U' B2 R B F' U' L' D2 U' R' U' F
Solution: F2 D' B' L F2 U' F D F' D2 F' R2 F U L' F R2 F' L F R2 F2 B (23)


Spoiler



5 minutes 26 backup:

F2 D' B' L //EO + pseudo 222 (4/4)
U2 B' D B U2 //Insert edge (pseudo 223) (5/9)
F D' F D' F D' B //F2L-1 (7/16)
F2 D' F D //Pair (4/20)
U F' D' F D U' //Skip (6/26)

23:

F2 D' B' L //EO + pseudo 222 (4/4)
(B') //222 (1/5)
F' D F' D2 //223 (4/9)
(F U' F' R2 F U) //4c (6/15)

Skeleton: F2 D' B' L F' * D F' D2 U' F' R2 F U + F' B
* = F' U' F D F' U F D' (1)
+ = L' F R2 F' L F R2 F' (7)



3.
Scramble: R' U' F U' L2 U R2 B2 D' R2 F2 D B' U' R' B' L U' L2 D' B2 D' R' U' F
Solution: F' U2 R2 B' L2 B R2 B' R2 D' B2 L U' L2 F' U' F D2 F' U F R' D' R U2 (25)


Spoiler



F' U2 * B' //EO + 2 pairs (3/3)
R2 //Square (1/4)
(U2) //One more pair (1/5)
L2 D' B2 //2 more squares (3/8)
L U' L2 + //"Diamond" (3/11)
D2 R' D' R //4c (4/15)

* = R2 B' L2 B R2 B' L2 B (4)
+ = F' U' F D2 F' U F D2 (6)


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## Hssandwich (Mar 23, 2019)

FMC Europe 2019 winning solutions 
24, 30, 25 = 26.33 mean

1. R' U' F L B2 U2 F2 R' F2 U2 F2 R2 B2 F' R2 U R F2 D R' U' R B' R' U' F



Spoiler



24:
R2 B' R L F' //EO
U' (B2 U' R) //pseudo 223
(B2 L' D') //12 to 5e4c (but I thought it was 4c4e until after the attempt...)

Skeleton: R2 B' R L F' U' D L B2 R' U & B2 *
* L2 U R' U' R U L2 //19 to 3c
& U F U' B2 U F' U' B2 (3 cancel)

Solution: R2 B' R L F' U' D L B2 R' U2 F U' B2 U F' U' L2 U R' U' R U L2 (24)

Notes: Overall a very lucky solve on a bad scramble. It's mainly lucky considering I would have never checked the skeleton if I knew it was 5e4c. I only had a 32 before this, so it was a godsend.



2. R' U' F D B2 D R2 F2 R2 D' B2 R U R' B' D F2 D' F R' F R' D R' U' F



Spoiler



30:
L2 U' D' //square and pseudo square
(R2 L2 U L D2) //223
R2 U F U' F2 R //F2L-1
L' U L U' F' U' F U //22 to 3e

Skeleton: L2 U' D' R2 U F $ U' F2 R L' U L ^ U' F' U' F U D2 L' U' L2 R2 
$ F2 Fw2 (2-1)
^ L F L' F2 Fw2 L F' L' (8-1)

Solution: L2 U' D' R2 U F' Fw2 U' F2 R L' U L2 F L' F2 Fw2 L F' L' U' F' U' F U D2 L' U' L2 R2 (30)

Notes: Didn't like the scramble much again, although I wasn't expecting a nasty insertion like this. I think there may have been a normal comm that cancelled 2/10 somewhere, but this was cooler so I kept it. Fabio Schwandt also had 22 to 3e on this solve, but got a 24 



3. R' U' F U2 R D2 B2 L D R2 U F2 D2 B2 D2 L D' R' B R' U' F



Spoiler



25:
(U') F2 R F' //square and pairs
R2 F' D' R // 123
F U2 F R' //222
F D F L2 F' L' D L D F' //22 to 3c

F2 R F' R2 F' D' R F U2 F % R' F D F L2 F' L' D L D F' U
% F L2 F' R' F L2 F' R (5 cancel)

Solution: F2 R F' R2 F' D' R F U2 F2 L2 F' R' F L2 D F L2 F' L' D L D F' U (25)

Notes: I feel very bad that this was how I won... Daniel Sheppard had an 18 to 3c skeleton on this scramble with no cancellations and definitely deserved the win more than I did.


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## asacuber (Mar 25, 2019)

I found this interesting start for the german forum comp, scr 2. Is there a good way to make a short skeleton from here?



Spoiler



R' U' F U L2 U L2 U F2 U' B2 U R' U2 B L F D F U F2 L D2 R' U' F
(B')//pair
L U' F2 B R D F//F2L-1 but with 2 flip


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## porkynator (Mar 29, 2019)

I will be doing an FMC live stream this Saturday from 16:00 GMT!

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE35U1lcpsU

It will be a 1 hour attempt on a random cstimer scramble. I will use the blackboard in my office, hopefully you will be able to see what's going on 
I don't plan to talk much during the attempt, but I will try to tell you what I'm doing every now and then. Then we can comment how bad I was in the live chat.

As far as I know, this is the first time someone does something like this, so I thought it was worth posting it here. I'm sure the streaming will not be perfect, but if people like the idea I will try to do this again (or someone else might want to try with as well).


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## asacuber (Mar 30, 2019)

porkynator said:


> I will be doing an FMC live stream this Saturday from 16:00 GMT!
> 
> Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE35U1lcpsU
> 
> ...




Cool!

Edit: Sorry for so many 'continuation' questions , but i found this very nice start for the ongoing german forum comp(scr 1). Pls help



Spoiler



R' U' F L2 D' U2 R2 B2 D L2 B2 D F' L D B2 R B L' R U F' R' U' F 
R' U//EO
F' L2 F'//222
(L' F' L)//PDR6

possible continuations:
(L2 D2 B2 L2)//blocks
or
L2//123


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## Lvl9001Wizard (Apr 8, 2019)

I would like to see some other solutions/improve my solution for this scramble:
R' U' F R D' F2 R2 D B2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 D' L R F' D' L' U2 L F2 R' U' F

It has 4 pairs already made as well as couple of pairs which are one move away.



Spoiler: my attempt



At first I found
R' B' D
(R U2 R)
https://alg.cubing.net/?alg=D-_B_R
...2-_F2-_D_R-_F-_U_R_//inverse_scramble
R_U2_R- 
Which gives a 1x2x3 and a 1x2x2 which are opposite so it's set up for a roux solve but I couldn't find a good continuation.

So I ended up just doing this

B R' F' D // EO
B F' U2 R' // 2x2x2
F L // P2x2x3 Premove L2
U2 L F2 L' U2 // F2L-1
F2 R' F R F' // All but 5C

Skeleton: B R' F' D B F' U2 R' F L U2 L F2 L' U2 F2 R' F R F' L2 (21)

not very great at this point

Insertion Finder:
B R' F' D B F' U2 R' F L U2 L F2 L' U2 [@1] F2 R' F R F' L2
Insert at @1: L B2 L' F' L B2 L' F
After the 1st insertion: B R' F' D B F' U2 R' F L U2 L F2 L' U2 L B2 L' F' L B2 [@2] L' F' R' F R F' L2
Insert at @2: F' R' F L' F' R F L
After the 2nd insertion: B R' F' D B F' U2 R' F L U2 L F2 L' U2 L B2 L' F' L B2 F' R' [@3] F L' R F' L2
Insert at @3: R2 F' L' F R2 F' L F

Solution: B R' F' D B F' U2 R' F L U2 L F2 L' U2 L B2 L' F' L B2 F' R F' L' F R2 F' L F2 L' R F' L2 (34)


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## asacuber (Apr 10, 2019)

19 overall PB single!!!!
(Spoiler alert for the current weekly comp)


Spoiler



R' U' F R L' F2 D2 B' R F2 L D L' B2 U L2 U D2 L2 U F2 D R2 D R' U' F

(D2 F2)//sq 
(B' U' B)//another sq 
(R2)//ps223 thingy 
R B R2 L'//223 
(F2 L' D2 L)//3E3C 

R B R2 D2 L' F2 R2 B' U B * F2 D2 

*= R D R' F' R D' R' F (8-1=7) :O 

R B R2 D2 L' F2 R2 B' U B R D R' F' R D' R' F' D2//Final Solution(19)



sooo happy with this


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## Loser (Apr 12, 2019)

Lvl9001Wizard said:


> I would like to see some other solutions/improve my solution for this scramble:
> R' U' F R D' F2 R2 D B2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 D' L R F' D' L' U2 L F2 R' U' F
> 
> It has 4 pairs already made as well as couple of pairs which are one move away.



F (R U2 F) // eo
D R' D' // 223-centers
(R D R' D' R') /// 12 to 4 centers+3e+2c

F D R' D' R D R D' R' F' U2 R'

i cant figure out why this isnt working someone who understands center insertions plz help


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## WoowyBaby (Apr 12, 2019)

*FMC PB!!*
Scramble-
R2 L2 U R' F L' F' R L2 U2 F2 U2 L2 B' L2 B' D2 F'
Solution-
R F2 U2 F’ R U y R’ D’ R U’ R’ D R’ U’ F2 U R2 D2 L2 F2 D’ L2 D’ R2
*24 moves!*

I don't think enough people know the power of Kociemba, it truly is amazing.


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## Underwatercuber (Apr 12, 2019)

Loser said:


> F (R U2 F) // eo
> D R' D' // 223-centers
> (R D R' D' R') /// 12 to 4 centers+3e+2c
> 
> ...


Don’t have a cube on me rn but I might be able to help. Bump this tomorrow if no one has helped and I can check it out


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## asacuber (Apr 12, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> *FMC PB!!*
> Scramble-
> R2 L2 U R' F L' F' R L2 U2 F2 U2 L2 B' L2 B' D2 F'
> Solution-
> ...




It is  but i suck at it ...



Loser said:


> F (R U2 F) // eo
> D R' D' // 223-centers
> (R D R' D' R') /// 12 to 4 centers+3e+2c
> 
> ...



R' U' F R D' F2 R2 D B2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 D' L R F' D' L' U2 L F2 R' U' F //scramble
your centres are skewed by M2 S M2 S' ie: R2 L2 F' B U2 D2 F' B
so your new scramble is: R' U' F R D' F2 R2 D B2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 D' L R F' D' L' U2 L F2 R' U' F *R2 L2 F' B U2 D2 F' B*
and the center skew alg in slice format (M2 S M2 S') affects the cube's centres by a z2. *So you do the moves on the normal as if they were affected by a z2, while keeping the premoves on the inverse the same. *So F D R' D' becomes F U L' U' and then the rest of the skeleton remains the same.

The (modified) Scramble: R' U' F R D' F2 R2 D B2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 D' L R F' D' L' U2 L F2 R' U' F R2 L2 F' B U2 D2 F' B
Revised skeleton: *F U L' U'* R D R D' R' F' U2 R'

F [@1] U L' U' R D R D' R' F' U2 R'
Insert at @1: U' R2 U D' F2 D
After the 1st insertion: F U' R2 U D' [@2] F2 D U L' U' R D R D' R' F' U2 R'
Insert at @2: D' B' D F2 D' B D F2
After the 2nd insertion: F U' R2 U D2 B' D F2 D' B D2 U L' U' R [@3] D R D' R' F' U2 R'
Insert at @3: R' U L U' R U L' U'
Fewest moves: 22. 12 moves cancelled
The final solution: F U' R2 U D2 B' D F2 D' B D2 R U L' U' D R D' R' F' U2 R' (from IF, imao what are these insertions lol)

now the revised skeleton is:
z2 F U' R2 U D2 B' D F2 D' B D2 R U L' U' D R D' R' F' U2 R'

and you can insert centers anywhere  (with the actual scramble)

F D' L2 D U2 B' U F2 U' B U2 L D R' D' U L U' L' F' D2 L'


Spoiler



tysm for this post, this prompted me to actually learn centre insertions. I thought they worked like normal insertions, then realised how terribly wrong i was 
also idk why this works, its like magic 



this post might be a better explanation: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/the-fmc-thread.13599/page-236


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## asacuber (Apr 14, 2019)

question: all the times here are in UTC: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/FMC2019#competition-schedule 

so does this mean that in some locations the comp will continue past midnight????


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## Loser (Apr 14, 2019)

asacuber said:


> question: all the times here are in UTC: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/FMC2019#competition-schedule
> 
> so does this mean that in some locations the comp will continue past midnight????


australias attempts are 12am 2am 4am lol


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## asacuber (Apr 14, 2019)

Loser said:


> australias attempts are 12am 2am 4am lol


exactly lol, that was the example i was thinking of


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 15, 2019)

asacuber said:


> question: all the times here are in UTC: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/FMC2019#competition-schedule
> 
> so does this mean that in some locations the comp will continue past midnight????


I'm sure that must be the case. The idea for these competitions has always been that everyone uses the same scrambles and they are run totally concurrently. That may mean there might not be that many participants there. But I know I sometimes find 2 AM to be a nice time for FMC. 

Edit: The Atlanta, GA site says it's a private residence, but the Google Maps link seems to take you to a Nieman-Marcus in a mall. Is Jacob Ambrose a mall squatter?


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## Theo Leinad (Apr 18, 2019)

For FMC 2019, private residences might show locations nearby and real location will be sent to the competitors near competition's date. 
Glad to hear people discussing FMC 2019 here in the forum


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## Loser (Apr 18, 2019)

i like the theory of jacob being a mall squatter the 3 days of a year he isnt at a comp tho


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## Cale S (Apr 20, 2019)

23.67 pb mo3  
just 2 means after a 24.00 mean which was tied pb



Spoiler: 22



R' U' F B D' L D2 F2 D2 R' U2 R' U2 R2 F2 D' L2 R' B' R F' U L' R' U' F

L2 B' // sq
D U L' // EO + roux block
(U' L2 D' L2) U' // F2L - 1
(D2 F' D2 F D) // 15 to 4c

L2 B' U D L' U' D' ^ F' D2 F D2 L2 D L2 U 
^ = D L2 U' R2 B2 U L2 D' R2 F2 

Solution: L2 B' D U L' U' L2 U' R2 B2 U L2 D' R2 F D2 F D2 L2 D L2 U (22)





Spoiler: 25



R' U' F B2 U2 R2 B2 L2 B2 R2 D2 U F2 U B D' B L U R' B2 L2 B R' U' F

U2 R2 F' R // EO + sq
B2 D' B' // 222
L2 U // 9 to 3e6c
L U2 F' U2 F L' // 15 to 2c2c

U2 R2 F' R B2 @ D' B' L2 U L U2 F' U2 F L' 
@ = D L2 F2 D B2 U' R2 F2 U B2 D2 

Solution: U2 R2 F' R B2 D L2 F2 D B2 U' R2 F2 U B2 D B' L2 U L U2 F' U2 F L' (25)





Spoiler: 24



R' U' F L' D' F L2 F2 L' D2 U2 L' F2 D2 F2 D2 R2 U' F D2 B2 L F' U R' U' F

(B D L2 U F') // EO + sq
(R' F2 U R2 D2) // 10 to 3e5c
(B U' L D2 L' D2 U B') // 18 to 3c 

B U' D2 L D2 L' U B' D2 R2 U' F2 R F U' L2 D' @ B'
@ = [D, F' U F] 

Solution: B U' D2 L D2 L' U B' D2 R2 U' F2 R F U' L2 F' U F D' F' U' F B' (24)


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## asacuber (Apr 20, 2019)

Cale S said:


> 23.67 pb mo3
> just 2 means after a 24.00 mean which was tied pb
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! Where did you find these pure 2c2c algs?


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## h2f (Apr 21, 2019)

In case you're not on FM FB group. Reto's 23 mo3:

23.00 mo3 WR solutions with some explanations






Scramble 1 // R' U' F L2 D' B2 D2 L2 U2 L2 D L' R B' D' F R2 D L R2 B2 U' B' R' U' F

R F' U' D2 L // Some blocks and preparing EO
(R U D2 F) // 223 block and EO
L' D2 // Realizing that the last 2 moves are useless for EO
(L2 D2) // Pseudo F2L-1
D L' D2 R D' L D R' D2 // L3C

Skel // R F' D * U' L' D2 R D' L D R' L2 F' D2 U' R' - 16
* L2 U R' U' L2 U R U' // 8-1

Solution // R F' D L2 U R' U' L2 U R U2 L' D2 R D' L D R' L2 F' D2 U' R' - 23 Moves


Scramble 2 // R' U' F D L2 R2 U' F2 L2 B2 F2 U R' D U' R D L' B2 L F L D2 R' U' F
D L2 D R' // 222 block with inserted move to get better continuation
F' D2 F' // 223 block
L D2 L // 2 Pairs
F' B D F B' // F2L-1
L D L' D' // L3C

Skel // * D L2 D R' F' D2 F' L D2 L F' B D F B' L D L' D' - 19
* R2 D L2 D' R2 D L2 D' // 8-5

Solution // R2 D L2 D' R2 D2 R' F' D2 F' L D2 L F' B D F B' L D L' D' - 22 Moves



Scramble 3 // R' U' F D2 R D2 L2 U2 B2 R' U F' L' U2 L2 B' D U2 F2 L' U R' U' F
(U') // 122 block
L2 F2 L // 222 block
B2 R' D R // 223 block with inserted move to get better continuation
R D R' B2 D // F2L-1 (which is a 3E3C)

Skel // L2 F2 L B2 R' D R R D R' B2 D U * - 12
+ U D' F' * R' F U' D R' B R // 10-3
* F' R' B' R F R' B R // 8-3

Solution // L2 F2 L B2 R' D R R D R' B2 U2 F2 R' B' R F R' B F U' D R' B R - 24 Moves

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422080808012720/permalink/2244793289074797/


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## asacuber (Apr 22, 2019)

GJ! Inserted random moves are OP lol



asacuber said:


> question: all the times here are in UTC: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/FMC2019#competition-schedule
> 
> so does this mean that in some locations the comp will continue past midnight????


Looking forward to catch a bus home at around 1ish lol


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## Lvl9001Wizard (Apr 24, 2019)

24 moves, my first ever sub 30! (from last week's reddit comp) Previous pb was 32 lol



Spoiler: Scramble: R' U' F U F2 D2 L2 B2 L2 R2 D U2 F2 U' R B D F2 R' B2 L U2 R' F' R' U' F



R' B F // EO
R' D' B2 R' B2 // 2x2x3
(U' L2 U L U2 L' U' L U' L) // AB3C (doing pseudo F2L)

Skeleton: R' B F' R' D' B2 R' B2 L' U L' U L U2 L' U' L2 # U (18)
# = F' D F U F' D' F U' //(8-2=6)

Solution: R' B F R' D' B2 R' B2 L' U L' U L U2 L' U' L2 F' D F U F' D' F (24)



I don't think I got any better, I just got really lucky this week (8 move EO and 2x2x3 for this scramble and 10 move EO and F2L-1 for 2nd scramble)


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## xyzzy (Apr 26, 2019)

5×5×5 FMC UWR(?) single, *127 moves*.

I knew Cale's 147 listed on the wiki would be very easy to beat—I already had a 146 two years ago (with 37 moves 3×3×3 stage), so the 147 technically wasn't even UWR. Hitting 55-60 moves for centres and edge pairing (each) in a linear solve is also pretty easy, so realistically I was aiming for 140-ish moves (55+55+30=140). I set a 2.5-hour time limit before I started, but I ended it after about 1:45 because I got bored.



Spoiler



Scramble (random-state):
R2 B2 R2 F U2 L2 D2 F L2 B2 F R' D' B2 U R2 U' B L U' R' U u2 F r2 U2 r2 u2 R2 B2 r2 F u2 F' r2 d2 F D' F' R2 B d2 f2 u2 f2 F' r2 B D F2 r2 d2 R' b2 f2 d2 B2 U L2 B' R F U2 d' R u2 L2 u' F' d' R b' u' b2 L' f' u' r' B R U'

Solution:
U f F u' d' D2 L2 b B' L d' R L2 D' b2 f // white/yellow mixed (16/16)
R u2 F2 u2 L' F' // most of red (6/22)
u B' d2 u F u L2 d' // green + parity (8/30)
L2 u d B' u' d' // orange 2x3 (6/36)
U r2 U2 L' R b2 F2 l2 U2 D2 b2 // fix white/yellow, red (11/47)
u' L' u L2 d L d' // finish (7/54)
// centres total: 54 moves

// 1 wing already paired
R' F R L' B2 L f // +3/4 wings (7/7)
R F2 R' b2 // +2/6 wings (4/11)
L F2 B L' f2 b2 // +3/9 wings (6/17)
R' U B' U' R b // +2/11 wings (6/23)
U' B2 U f // +3/14 wings (4/27)
R' B' R b' // +3/17 wings (4/31)
f2 F L F' L' f2 // +3/20 wings (6/37)
U B' U' d2 L' B U B' L d2 // +4/24 wings (10/47)
// edge pairing total: 47 moves

L2 D F' // EO + p222 (3/3)
R D2 R' @ D B2 // p223 (5/8)
L' D2 L2 D' L D' L D L' # U // F2L-1; ab4c (10/18)
@ = R D2 R' U R D2 R' U' // 6 cancel (lol)
# = L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U // 2 cancel (8/26)
// 333 total: 26 moves
// full solve: 54+47+26 = 127 moves

Centres were kinda bad because I tried to be too fancy with white/yellow and effectively wasted a bunch of moves, but edge pairing was very lucky and 26 moves for 333 is pretty nice too. Used alg.cubing.net to check the scramble, but other than that, everything was pen and paper (and stickers and cubes).


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## Underwatercuber (Apr 27, 2019)

xyzzy said:


> 5×5×5 FMC UWR(?) single, *127 moves*.
> 
> I knew Cale's 147 listed on the wiki would be very easy to beat—I already had a 146 two years ago (with 37 moves 3×3×3 stage), so the 147 technically wasn't even UWR. Hitting 55-60 moves for centres and edge pairing (each) in a linear solve is also pretty easy, so realistically I was aiming for 140-ish moves (55+55+30=140). I set a 2.5-hour time limit before I started, but I ended it after about 1:45 because I got bored.
> 
> ...


Nice B!


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## Cale S (May 4, 2019)

23.67 tied pb mo3



Spoiler: 23



R' U' F L' U F L U F' R2 B' U' F2 L2 D2 R U2 L F2 B2 R D2 L2 R' U' F

R2 F' (D' B') // EO
B2 R F2 // roux block + sq
(U L D F2 D2) // 4e4c

R2 F' B2 R F2 D2 @ F2 D' L' U' B ^ D 
@ = L2 U L U2 L' U' L2 
^ = [B', U F U']

Solution: R2 F' B2 R F2 D2 L2 U L U2 L' U' L2 F2 D' L' F U' B U F' U' D (23)





Spoiler: 27



R' U' F L' D' L2 R2 U' B2 L2 U F2 L2 U' B2 F L' D R2 D2 R' B' L2 D' R' U' F

B (U2 D' F') // EO
F2 L' D' R // roux block
F2 // sq
D R' D2 U' // F2L - 1 
(L' D L' U' L U D' L') // 21 to 3e

B F2 ^ L' D' R F2 D R' D2 U' L D U' L' U L D' L F D U2
^ = F2 L2 U L2 F2 R2 D R2

Solution: B L2 U L2 F2 R2 D R2 L' D' R F2 D R' D2 U' L D U' L' U L D' L F D U2 (27)





Spoiler: 21



R' U' F D' B2 L2 U2 F2 R' F2 R B2 D2 B2 U2 R' D B L' D L U2 B U2 R' U' F

B2 L' D2 B // EO + sq
(R2 D' B2) F2 // 223 
(L U' L2) L2 // F2L - 1
U' L' U' L U2 L' U' L U2 // lol

Solution: B2 L' D2 B F2 L2 U' L' U' L U2 L' U' L U2 L2 U L' B2 D R2 (21)


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## MeDoMiHD (May 6, 2019)

Hey, I'm new to this site, and pretty new to FMC. I was normally interested in being the fastest but with the current records it's going to be pretty much impossible, so I chose for something that would be like an actual puzzle 

Where did you all get your basic skills from, and what did you average on in the beginning? I'm trying out all these 'hard' things like edge orientation, inversions and NISS but still gets me around 50, sometimes over. I'm really interested in how to reduce my move count to at least in the 30 range, even if one solve would take me a week XD

Anyway, maybe if I think I'm capable enough, going to attend some competitions, because I've never been to one and it would be cool to do so heh.


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## WoowyBaby (May 6, 2019)

If you’re just starting out, then getting in the 30s might not be realistic, I’m sorry, but you can be consistently under 50 moves, and without using NISS / inversions or psuedo blocks or insertions or whatever.
-The three biggest concepts you need to know are 1) Blockbuilding 2) EO 3) Corner Comms
-EO is probably the easiest to learn and be good at, search up ZZ EOline tutorial and you will know EO very well.
-Commutators are next, somewhat easy to learn, but slightly less useful. The most common use of commutators are Corner comms for Last 3 Corners, an example of one is R’ D’ R U2 R’ D R U2. If I were to kind of explain it, you put a corner where it goes (R’ D’ R) then move it over to replace it with another corner you want to solve (U2) then undo what you did, which restores everything else on the cube (R’ D R U2).
-Blockbuilding is by far the most useful, but isn’t as simple to get good with. Everyone knows what this is but some people are better than others. Two resources are Block Trainer and Cube Explorer. I’m personally more experienced with figuring out blockbuilding tricks on Cube Explorer than Block Trainer, but I think both are good.
Oh also some more tips for blockbulding is 1) Be color neutral, of course. Be able to expand blocks in any direction. 2) Always focus on solving more than one piece at a time.
A good goal for blockbuilding during FMC for YOU might be ~6 moves for 2x2x2, max 8 moves. If you decide to start with 2x2x2, (you don’t have to though) then don’t let yourself keep going unless it’s 8 or less.
-A random note about FMC is that doing the same thing everytime isn’t efficient.

Here’s a quick example solve, something that I know you can do if you learn and improve a bit, I’m keeping the techniques here simple-
Scramble: U' R F' U D R2 F' L2 U2 F2 R' D2 L F2 R F2 D2 F2 L2 F' L
B R F L2 D’ // 2x2x2 (5)
R’ U F U F2 // ->223 (5)
U {F B’} R {F’ B} // EO (6)
U’ R2 // Square (2), now at EOF2L-1 at 18 moves. For you, I’d set a goal of 25 moves or less for EOF2L-1
(y) R U2 R’ U R U R’ U2 // Edges + 1corner (8) (preferably you want Edges+2corners so you can do corners with 1 comm!)
(x’) R’ D R U’ R’ D’ R U // 1st Corner Comm (8)
(z2) R’ D R U2 R’ D’ R U2 // Last 3 Corners / 2nd Comm / Finish (8)
A good goal for Last Slot / L10P would be 25 moves or less. In my example I spent like 2 seconds finding a solution so that’s why it’s not like 18 xd For last slot, do a quick check to see if doing Pair -> last layer is easy, because sometimes you might be PLL skip or whatever. However, the FMC way to do EO Last Slot, is Edges + 2 corners and then L3C with one corner comm.

Hope this helped, good luck with FMC!


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## porkynator (May 7, 2019)

MeDoMiHD said:


> Hey, I'm new to this site, and pretty new to FMC. I was normally interested in being the fastest but with the current records it's going to be pretty much impossible, so I chose for something that would be like an actual puzzle
> 
> Where did you all get your basic skills from, and what did you average on in the beginning? I'm trying out all these 'hard' things like edge orientation, inversions and NISS but still gets me around 50, sometimes over. I'm really interested in how to reduce my move count to at least in the 30 range, even if one solve would take me a week XD
> 
> Anyway, maybe if I think I'm capable enough, going to attend some competitions, because I've never been to one and it would be cool to do so heh.



WoowyBaby gave you some really good advice, I second that.

In case you don't know, I have a (quite long) written tutorial: https://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf
Most FMC techniques are explained there


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (May 8, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> If you’re just starting out, then getting in the 30s might not be realistic, I’m sorry, but you can be consistently under 50 moves, and without using NISS / inversions or psuedo blocks or insertions or whatever.
> -The three biggest concepts you need to know are 1) Blockbuilding 2) EO 3) Corner Comms
> -EO is probably the easiest to learn and be good at, search up ZZ EOline tutorial and you will know EO very well.
> -Commutators are next, somewhat easy to learn, but slightly less useful. The most common use of commutators are Corner comms for Last 3 Corners, an example of one is R’ D’ R U2 R’ D R U2. If I were to kind of explain it, you put a corner where it goes (R’ D’ R) then move it over to replace it with another corner you want to solve (U2) then undo what you did, which restores everything else on the cube (R’ D R U2).
> ...


I’m really interested in Kociemba related ideas, but I can’t find anywhere to explore them. Could you explain how Kociemba works or show me somewhere I could learn more?


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## ch_ts (May 8, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> I’m really interested in Kociemba related ideas, but I can’t find anywhere to explore them. Could you explain how Kociemba works or show me somewhere I could learn more?



You can try searching out Attila's domino reduction solves, but they're a bit difficult to understand imo


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## Cale S (May 8, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> I’m really interested in Kociemba related ideas, but I can’t find anywhere to explore them. Could you explain how Kociemba works or show me somewhere I could learn more?



I use domino reduction in about a third of my FMC solves, and these are the main approaches I have to the reduction phase:

1. EO -> place 3 E edges in the E layer and orient all but 3 corners -> setup to R U R' or R U' R' type insert 
2. EO -> place 3 E edges in the E layer and orient all but 4 corners -> setup to R U2 R' type insert 
3. EO -> place 2 E edges in the E layer and orient all but 4 corners --> setup to single move 

E layer can also be the M layer since you have two axes to choose from after EO 

Here are examples of each:


Spoiler: 1



R' U' F U2 F2 D2 R' D2 L B2 R' D2 F2 B R' D' L B' R2 F D R2 F2 R' U' F

B2 D B // EO
R (U' D' L D' L') // Domino 


R' U' F U' F2 U R B L' U L' U' R2 D' R2 U L2 U F2 R2 U L2 D B' R' U' F

U L' F' B R' // EO
(L2 B') // sq 
(F2 D2) // sq 
(U B' D' B') // Domino


R' U' F D' R B2 D' F2 D' U2 L2 U' R2 B2 U' B2 L2 B' U L2 B2 F L U R' U' F

R' (B' U2 F' R) // EO
B (U2 L2 U' F' U F) // Domino





Spoiler: 2



R' U' F R U R2 D' L2 R2 D2 L2 U' B2 U R' F D' R2 F2 D' U2 R U R' U' F

F (L U' D' B) // EO
(F2 U L2 U' D' R' F2 R') // Domino 

here, R' F2 R' is an alternate way to do L' D2 L ending


R' U' F U2 F2 U2 F L2 B D2 B' L2 R2 F2 D2 L' R2 D' B2 R' D' L' D' U2 R' U' F

(R') F R' B2 U' L // EO 
F2 D' B2 U' D' F' U2 F // Domino 


R' U' F R2 U' R2 F2 D2 B2 U' F2 U F2 U' F' L2 D U2 R' B L' R' U' F

(U' F) U2 F // EO
R D' L2 D U2 R' D2 R' // Domino





Spoiler: 3



R' U' F R2 D2 U B2 D R2 U' R2 B2 L R' B D2 L D U2 B' U L2 B2 F' R' U' F

D F' (L' D2 B) // EO
(D) R' D2 R' D2 R2 D // Domino


R' U' F D' B2 D' F2 D2 B2 U2 F2 R2 U B' U F' L D' F2 L D' L R U' R' U' F

D2 B R D F // EO
D' B2 L2 U' L2 D' L' // Domino

R' U' F L2 U2 L F2 D2 R B2 U2 L2 B2 U2 R' U' L' F' R D' B' U R F2 R' U' F

D2 R' B' // EO
D' (R' F2 U2 L D') // Domino 


R' U' F U' F' D2 F2 B U' F' L F2 L2 B2 L2 F' U2 F D2 F D2 R2 B R' U' F

B D' F L // EO 
(B F' L2 U2 F' B2 U') // Domino




For finishing after reducing to domino, it mostly comes down to trying several ways of making blocks until you get lucky, and it helps to know things like TTLLs and 2e2e algs. Also keep in mind that corner comm insertions with domino are not very good, but edge insertions can be good (especially E slice edges, which add like 1 move on average for insertions which is why you should focus more on solving the U and D layer pieces).


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (May 8, 2019)

Cale S said:


> I use domino reduction in about a third of my FMC solves, and these are the main approaches I have to the reduction phase:
> 
> 1. EO -> place 3 E edges in the E layer and orient all but 3 corners -> setup to R U R' or R U' R' type insert
> 2. EO -> place 3 E edges in the E layer and orient all but 4 corners -> setup to R U2 R' type insert
> ...


YAY! Thx. Now I just have to learn EO.


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## WoowyBaby (May 8, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> YAY! Thx. Now I just have to learn EO.


Just search up any ZZ EOline tutorial! (just ignore the line part of course)

In short, an edge is oriented if it can be solved using only RULD moves, and doing a quarter turn F or B flips the 4 edges on that face.
Sramble: L' D' L2 D' F2 R' D R L' D2 F R2 U2 L2 B2 U2 F L2 F2 B
y' U2 R L' F // EO
In this, I did U2 R L' to bring my 4 bad edges to F face, then did an F move to turn them good (oriented).
If you don't understand just from this, that's totally fine, an EOline tutorial goes more in depth


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (May 8, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Just search up any ZZ EOline tutorial! (just ignore the line part of course)
> 
> In short, an edge is oriented if it can be solved using only RULD moves, and doing a quarter turn F or B flips the 4 edges on that face.
> Sramble: L' D' L2 D' F2 R' D R L' D2 F R2 U2 L2 B2 U2 F L2 F2 B
> ...


I understand already how EO works, I just have to learn the rules. I use roux, so I at least understand it somewhat.


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## WoowyBaby (May 9, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> I understand already how EO works, I just have to learn the rules. I use roux, so I at least understand it somewhat.


I don't get what you mean... the rules?
Well when you have EO solved, then you can do any moves besides quarter F/B turns. (so R R' R2 L L' L2 U U' U2 D D' D2 F2 B2)
If you've never done a ZZ solve, then you won't understand EO. Knowing Roux EO doesn't help you at all...
youtube.com/watch?v=dPPvUWY53Ws and http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php?p=eoline


Spoiler: More EO Examples



Scramble: D' R D2 B' R B U2 F B2 D F2 D2 F2 U2 B' R2 U2 R2 B U2 R2
y'
L U R F // EO

Scramble: R F' B2 D' L2 U' L2 U' B2 R2 D F2 R2 U F' U' F' R' U F R'
y z2
U' F // EO

Scramble: U' B' L2 U' L U' B L' B' L2 F' D2 F2 D2 F' D2 B' L2 U
L R' D' F' // EO


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (May 9, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> I don't get what you mean... the rules?
> Well when you have EO solved, then you can do any moves besides quarter F/B turns. (so R R' R2 L L' L2 U U' U2 D D' D2 F2 B2)
> If you've never done a ZZ solve, then you won't understand EO. Knowing Roux EO doesn't help you at all...
> youtube.com/watch?v=dPPvUWY53Ws and http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php?p=eoline
> ...


Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I know how EO works. I know what it does. I haven’t done a ZZ solve, but I know that an oriented edge is one that can be solved RLUD, and I have tried this out to see if it works (spoiler: it does). I’ve even played with EO ideas on pyra, trying to come up with a better system than the one currently in place. However, I don’t know the rules for recognizing what EO you have quickly w/ ZZ in inspection, and I know that it’s much easier in FMC to know that. (I’ve tried just using an RLUD move set to find EO in FMC, but I don’t like it as it’s clunky and hard to realize which pieces are unoriented.) Hope that clears things up.


----------



## asacuber (May 10, 2019)

Does anyone have a good continuation?

R' U' F U F R2 D2 R2 B' L2 F R2 F' R2 F D' F' U' L F' U R B' L2 R' U' F

(R' F U' D' B')//EO+sq
(L')//123

My continuation was:
(D' R' U' R' D2)//223
(L' U2)//psF2L-1
U2 L U' L//AB5C in 17
Final solution was a 26: first 6 cancel then 1 cancel lol
this is just a random scramble btw


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## Lvl9001Wizard (May 10, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> (I’ve tried just using an RLUD move set to find EO in FMC, but I don’t like it as it’s clunky and hard to realize which pieces are unoriented.)



Yeh watch any ZZ tutorial and you can do it faster.
Alternatively searching around there's some written explanations but I think learning with a video is faster


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## asacuber (May 13, 2019)

Mark Boyanowski 26.3 mean:
23,37,19

oops

anyway gj on the 19! Recon?


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (May 13, 2019)

asacuber said:


> Mark Boyanowski 26.3 mean:
> 23,37,19
> 
> oops
> ...


Listen to the latest Layer by layer episode. They talk about it.


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## WoowyBaby (May 13, 2019)

FMC *PB*
Scramble: R' U' F L U2 F2 L F2 L U2 R' B2 R2 D2 U' R U' L' B' L2 F U B2 R' D R' U' F
(z)
B' R2 D F' D F2 // EO + Kociemba 2x2x3
R' U' R2 U2 R' // CO + Last 2 E Edges
r2 U S2 U' // Edge Circuits
L2 D2 R2 // Half-Turn-Only Finish
*19* HTM, 18 STM
I love Kociemba/Domino, I don’t think I’d get this without it! (also I’m just bad at the normal way xd)
Also if anyone wants to learn Kociemba/Domino ideas from this solve then go ahead


asacuber said:


> Mark Boyanowski 26.3 mean:
> 23,37,19


Oof that 37, but GJ for a 26 mean!


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (May 14, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> FMC *PB*
> Scramble: R' U' F L U2 F2 L F2 L U2 R' B2 R2 D2 U' R U' L' B' L2 F U B2 R' D R' U' F
> (z)
> B' R2 D F' D F2 // EO + Kociemba 2x2x3
> ...


Hey, I now have gotten EO down pretty well, but I’m having trouble doing CO intuitively for some reason. Could you help? GJ on the pb btw!


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (May 15, 2019)

I know Kociemba is the best FMC method because the speedsolving logo is in G1. Lol


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## WoowyBaby (May 15, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> Hey, I now have gotten EO down pretty well, but I’m having trouble doing CO intuitively for some reason. Could you help? GJ on the pb btw!


Edit from future: TL;DR Setup to one of the 3 move insert cases or the single move case

Thanks! One super basic yet still optimal way of doing CO is to literally try every possible sequence of moves of increasing length.
Now this way is obviously inefficient time-wise, and only works if you want your solution to be 2-gen RU, so here’s kind of what I do:
Reduce it to one of the 3-move cases, R U R’, R U’ R’, R U2 R’. Just memorize these 3 cases and know how they can look. I can’t really explain it but you kinda just do it....
Here’s an example on 2x2-
Scr: R2 F2 R F R' F U2 F R U
I see red/orange is bad because it’s the L OLL case which takes 5 moves (z’ y F’ L’ U2 L F) so I notice white/yellow, the pattern looks just like the R U2 R’ case, so, I do R U2 R’ and that’s my CO.
A note about CO is that for he final move, it doesn’t matter if you do R or R’, so find which one influences Phase 2 better.
So for that 2x2 example, R U2 R does it as well as R U2 R’.
On 2x2, almost every time I do one of the 3-move cases if I do CO, so I’m pretty used to them.
Because they’re only 3 moves, you can easily find an optimal CO solution doing this, and in fact, basically all CO cases to a 3-move case and maybe cancel an R move or something.
R2 U2 R’ is just R to setup to R U2 R’ then cancel R’s to get R2 U2 R’
A simple sune (do R’ U’ R U’ R’ U2 R to setup this example) is just R2, now it’s a 3-move case, so you do U’ R U’ R’, so your CO solution for Sune is R2 U’ R U’ R’

But for 3x3, 2-gen CO just doesn’t work out, because during Phase 1 you may have EO and E edges solved so everything will break your E-layer edges.
So a trick is to make a “commutator”(not really) by doing stuff like R U’ L’ F2 L U R’ and now you’ve just made an alg that flips 2 corners and preserves EO and E Edges. R U D’ R2 U’ D R’ is another I just made up right now in 10 seconds.
Also, if you only have corners to twist in Phase 1, you can freely do any Half-Turns to change the unsolved corners positions but not affect EO or E Edges.

Hope this helped!



ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> I know Kociemba is the best FMC method because the speedsolving logo is in G1. Lol


Lol yep it is, it’s also in a Half-Turn-Only state too.
One day I should FMC the speedsolving logo xD I’m pretty sure I can tell the entire state, because if it’s in HTO state then I don’t think you can have just 3 adj. sides solved but the other part not solved, so I’m gonna give it a shot sometime lolz


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (May 15, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Thanks! One super basic yet still optimal way of doing CO is to literally try every possible sequence of moves of increasing length.
> Now this way is obviously inefficient time-wise, and only works if you want your solution to be 2-gen RU, so here’s kind of what I do:
> Reduce it to one of the 3-move cases, R U R’, R U’ R’, R U2 R’. Just memorize these 3 cases and know how they can look. I can’t really explain it but you kinda just do it....
> Here’s an example on 2x2-
> ...


I suck at comms, but I think I could get used to them. Thanks so much!


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## asacuber (May 15, 2019)

@WoowyBaby So is your general approach like:
EO+Kociemba block
CO
DR
finish?

Also can you link some other websites through which you learnt this? Thanks!


WoowyBaby said:


> But for 3x3, 2-gen CO just doesn’t work out, because during Phase 1 you may have EO and E edges solved so everything will break your E-layer edges.
> So a trick is to make a *commutator*(?) by doing stuff like R U’ L’ F2 L U R’ and now you’ve just made an alg that flips 2 corners and preserves EO and E Edges. R U D’ R2 U’ D R’ is another I just made up right now in 10 seconds.
> Also, if you only have corners to twist in Phase 1, you can freely do any Half-Turns to change the unsolved corners positions but not affect EO or E Edges.



Conjugate


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## Cale S (May 17, 2019)

23.67 tied pb mean again

cool solutions on 2 and 3



Spoiler: 25



R' U' F D2 R2 B2 R2 B2 F D2 U2 L' R U' R' B2 D B' F2 D' U2 R' U' F

D B L' U2 // 222
(B' R' B2) // 223
R2 F D' F' // F2L - 1
F' R' F // F2L
(F D R D' R' F' R') // 20 to 3e

D B L' U2 R2 F D' F2 R' F R F R D R' ^ D' F' B2 R B
^ = F2 L2 B2 U B2 L2 F2 D
Solution: D B L' U2 R2 F D' F2 R' F R F R D R' F2 L2 B2 U B2 L2 F B2 R B (25)





Spoiler: 22



R' U' F U2 F R2 D2 F R2 F U2 F2 L2 U2 B' U' L' D' U L' U' B' D2 R' U' F

(B F R' F) // EO
(L' U B2 R' B2 D) // Domino
F2 U2 (L U2) // OBL
D2 L' D2 L2 B2 L' D2 L2 // PBL, 22 to 3e

F2 U2 D2 @ L' D2 ^ L2 B2 L' D2 L2 U2 % L' D' B2 R B2 U' L F' R F' B'
@ = M'
^ = M2
% = M'

Solution: F2 U2 D2 Lw' D2 Lw2 B2 L' D2 L2 U2 Lw' D' B2 R B2 U' L F' R F' B' (22)





Spoiler: 24



R' U' F R2 U' B2 D U2 B2 L2 U' R2 D2 F U' R' B D' R B' D2 F L' R' U' F

L U2 F' R // EO
(R2 D') // 222
(U2 B' R2) // F2L - 1 with two corners swapped
U B' U' B // Domino + OBL
F2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' F2 R2 U2 R2 U' // PBL

Solution: L U2 F' R U B' U' B F2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' F2 R2 U2 R2 U' R2 B U2 D R2 (24)


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## asacuber (May 17, 2019)

Cale S said:


> R' U' F U2 F R2 D2 F R2 F U2 F2 L2 U2 B' U' L' D' U L' U' B' D2 R' U' F
> 
> (B F R' F) // EO
> (L' U B2 R' B2 D) // Domino
> ...




Woah what did you do there? i know the slice to 4centres4e then conjugate, but you seem to be doing something different here



Cale S said:


> F2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' F2 R2 U2 R2 U' // PBL



Did you just try matching up blocks randomly for this one?

GJ!


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## Cale S (May 17, 2019)

asacuber said:


> Woah what did you do there? i know the slice to 4centres4e then conjugate, but you seem to be doing something different here


With domino solutions, you can make any combination of U and D moves wide and it will affect the E slice pieces without adding moves, and this is the same as inserting slices that cancel 2. Here I found a combination of inserted slices that solved the 3e case




asacuber said:


> Did you just try matching up blocks randomly for this one?
> 
> GJ!


That PBL is one that I happen to know, I found it by hand once and then learned a few of the others that are PLL + 2 adjacent swapped corners


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## asacuber (May 22, 2019)

I found this nice domino reduction for the 3rd scramble of the german forum comp. However I couldn't finish it :/ Please help



Spoiler



R' U' F L2 B D2 B' L2 D2 B F' U2 L' B2 U L' R' D' F' U2 R U B D R' U' F

U' R2 F U' R'//EO
U' R2 D2 B'//DR


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## NykoCuber1 (May 22, 2019)

R' U' F L2 B D2 B' L2 D2 B F' U2 L' B2 U L' R' D' F' U2 R U B D R' U' F

U' R2 F U' R' // EO (5)
U' R2 D2 B' // DR (4)
(F2 D' L2) // SQ (3)
(U' R2) // SQ (2)
(U F2 U L2 F2 D2) // Finish (6)

Solution: U' R2 F U' R' U' R2 D2 B' D2 F2 L2 U' F2 U' R2 U L2 D F2 // 20


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## WoowyBaby (May 23, 2019)

asacuber said:


> I found this nice domino reduction for the 3rd scramble of the german forum comp. However I couldn't finish it :/ Please help
> 
> R' U' F L2 B D2 B' L2 D2 B F' U2 L' B2 U L' R' D' F' U2 R U B D R' U' F
> 
> ...



U2 B2 R2 U' B2 // Square-Pair-Line Layer (and 2 pairs)
U' L2 // Combine
U R2 U2 D' F2 // Finish
Kociemba Phase 2 Total: 12 moves

Does this help?


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## asacuber (May 23, 2019)

NykoCuber1 said:


> R' U' F L2 B D2 B' L2 D2 B F' U2 L' B2 U L' R' D' F' U2 R U B D R' U' F
> 
> U' R2 F U' R' // EO (5)
> U' R2 D2 B' // DR (4)
> ...



Thanks a lot! I'm surprised i didnt even try out the first square, but I was looking for like 2 move squares and 1 move squares 



WoowyBaby said:


> (y')
> D U F2 L2 U' F2 // Square-Pair-Line Layer (can sometimes be very useful)
> D2 U L2 // 2x2x3/Combine
> U R2 U R2 // 2-Gen Finish
> ...



Yes this does help! I didn't know about the square-pair-line layer, it looks like a really cool approach

Thanks! Hopefully the next time I get a DR i'll actually use it... lol


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## WoowyBaby (May 24, 2019)

I wanted to share this great solve, not quite real personal best but it is STM PB!

Scr: R' U' F D2 B2 F U2 B' D2 L2 B' L2 F' D2 L U' B R' U' B2 R' B L2 R' D R' U' F


Spoiler: Solution, from current Weekly Comp



Solution: x2
L' B' R' F R' U' R
F2 M2 D' B2 M2 D
B2 R2 S2 U2
(17s, 20h)





Spoiler: Long talk (mostly) about HTO Reduction



The Phase 1 was the easiest I’ve ever seen, only 7 moves, and I got to use it because it led to a not-bad Phase 2, Half-Turn-Only phase was better than what I was trying to go for which is of course a plus too

Now Half-Turn-Only Reduction can be amazing. It really can, it’s even gotten me my current PB (19 moves). Anything to take away from this entire post is that HTO Redux is awesome.
The biggest thing to learn from this is the Half-Turn-Only Reduction in Phase 2:
F2 M2 D' B2 M2 D
F2 D’ B2 D would make the corner quadruplets that reduces corners to half turn only state, leaving 4 edges unsolved (unsolved as in not in their correct slices) able to be fixed using 2 “inserted” slice turns. If the top/bottom layer is misaligned by a quarter turn relative to the other then doing M2 (or S2) changes 4 edges, HTO good <-> HTO bad, similarly to doing a quarter F move changes edges, oriented <-> disoriented.
For corners to be in a half-turn-only state, look at a 2x2 and you will see what patterns are “allowed”. Basically to tell you, it has to be opposite colors on each side, and also “quadruplets”, it’s difficult to explain sorry, I’ll do my best, if you have two adj. corners then there will be three other duplicates of that pattern, the four pairs of corners are always the same.


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## asacuber (May 24, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Wanted to share this very good solve, not quite real personal best but it is STM PB!
> 
> Scr: R' U' F D2 B2 F U2 B' D2 L2 B' L2 F' D2 L U' B R' U' B2 R' B L2 R' D R' U' F
> Solution: x2
> ...




Nice! Please use spoilers though, as this is from the ongoing weekly comp


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## asacuber (May 25, 2019)

Sorry for the double post, but the german forum isn't working for me. Is anyone else having this problem?


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## mattboeren (May 29, 2019)

hi
does somebody know a site to train fmc?


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## Duncan Bannon (May 29, 2019)

DG cubes website has an insertion trainer.


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## Cale S (May 30, 2019)

23.67 pb mean (for the 4th time) but this time I used domino on all 3 solves 



Spoiler: 25



R' U' F D2 R2 F' U' L' D' L' D F2 D2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U B2 U' L2 B' D' R' U' F

(F') F D' F' // EO
D' (D2 F2 R2 L' D) // DR
R2 D2 R' D2 R' F2 R B2 // solve corners, 18 to 9 edges

F D' F' D' R2 D2 @ R' % D2 R' F2 R B2 D' L R2 F2 D2 F

@ = B2 L B2 F2 R' ^ F2
^ = M'
% = M

Solution: F D' F' D' R2 D2 B2 L B2 F2 R2 L D2 L' D2 R' F2 R B2 D' L R2 F2 D2 F (25)





Spoiler: 25



R' U' F B' D' R B' U' L' F B L2 D2 F2 R2 L' D2 R' U2 D2 F2 L F2 D' R' U' F

R L' B' // EO
F2 D (L' F2 L2 U' R2 U) // DR
(R2 U2 R B2) // 15 to 3e3c

R L' B' F2 D B2 R' U2 @ R2 U' R2 U L2 F2 L

@ = U2 B F' L2 ^ F B'
^ = [R2, B' L' B]

Solution: R L' B' F2 D B2 R' B F' L2 R2 B' L' B R2 B' L F R2 U' R2 U L2 F2 L (25)





Spoiler: 21



R' U' F L2 U2 L2 D F2 D' L2 B2 U2 F2 U' B2 L U L' F D2 L2 D' R U2 R' U' F

F D2 R // EO
L2 U R2 U2 D' F // DR
U F2 U2 L2 U' R2 // solve corners, 15 to 3e3e

F D2 R L2 U R2 U2 D' F U F2 U2 L2 U' R2 @

@ = R2 U D' ^ F2 D U'
^ = D2 B F' R2 F B'

Solution: F D2 R L2 U R2 U2 D' F U F2 U2 L2 D B F' R2 F' B' D U' (21)


this can be a 20 if you insert some slices into the solution but I didn't have time


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## mattboeren (May 30, 2019)

mattboeren said:


> hi
> does somebody know a site to train fmc?


i have found a fmc timer https://cubingtime.com/timer


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## asacuber (May 30, 2019)

General question regarding PDR and DR: How do you avoid 2c2e parity? It's kinda become a nuisance for me


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## asacuber (Jun 7, 2019)

Sorry for double post but thought i'd share this:

Scramble: R' U' F D B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U B2 F2 D2 R' U2 B2 R B2 R' B' L D R2 B' U2 R' U' F

(L' U' R)//EO
U//Kociemban 222
F/Kociemban Diamond
D' B' D2 B//Kociemban F2L-1
D F' D F//DR

It looks slightly crappy and I couldn't find anything myself, so i gave it to ruwix's solver(which uses 2phase btw)
And believe it or not, the 2nd phase is *17 moves!!!*
Can anyone find anything better? I don't think the solver is optimal...
What is the superflip of phase 2 states?


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 7, 2019)

asacuber said:


> Sorry for double post but thought i'd share this:
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F D B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U B2 F2 D2 R' U2 B2 R B2 R' B' L D R2 B' U2 R' U' F
> 
> ...


13 moves for Phase 1, not bad. For Phase 2, I believe the god's number is 16, so I'm pretty certain that program didn't solve it optimally.

Though I looked through this Phase 2, and it's not very good, if this was a real FMC attempt I might find a different Phase 1.
This is all I can find (maybe I could find a better solution if I looked harder but eh)-
Setup: R' U L R' U' F D B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U B2 F2 D2 R' U2 B2 R B2 R' B' L D R2 B' U2 R' U' F U F D' B' D2 B D F' D F
[F2 cancels] U R2 U R2 U R2 U D F2 U' L2 U' // Half-Turn-Only Reduction (12)
B2 R2 U2 B2 R2 B2 L2 // Half-Turn-Only Finish (7)
Phase 2 Total: 19 HTM 
13 + 19 = *32* move FMC, not bad.
By the way, if you ever struggle with Phase 2 just do HTO Reduction 

What is the superflip of Phase 2 states? Who knows! I can't help here :/


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## asacuber (Jun 8, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> 13 moves for Phase 1, not bad. For Phase 2, I believe the god's number is 16, so I'm pretty certain that program didn't solve it optimally.
> 
> Though I looked through this Phase 2, and it's not very good, if this was a real FMC attempt I might find a different Phase 1.
> This is all I can find (maybe I could find a better solution if I looked harder but eh)-
> ...



Thanks a lot! HTO reduction seems very cool, especially if corners are already reduced (and 4 edges have to be placed ) i might try it when i find a domino. 
Coming to FMC '19?

In other news, I beat IF and did slice style edge insertions for the first time and it worked like a dream 

(spoiler alert for the russian weekly)



Spoiler



R' U' F D2 L2 D R2 F2 D F2 L2 D B2 R U L F D L' R F2 R' D B2 R' U' F //Scramble

(L')//pair
(U2)//sq
(F' R F)//222
(D B2 L D B' L2 B2)D2//F2L-1
L D L' D' B D' B2 L' B L D//AB3E in 24

D2 $ L D L' D' B D' * B2 L' B L D B2 L2 B D' L' B2 D' F' R' F U2 L

*= D2 Dw2 (2-1=1)
$= L B U2 Uw2 B' L' (6-2=4) Would've been easier to spot during the next move 

Final: D2 L B U2 D2 F' D R' D' F D U2 B2 L' B L D B2 L2 B D' L' B2 D' F' R' F U2 L//29


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## Lvl9001Wizard (Jun 11, 2019)

I got 2 skeletons for a scramble, a 2e3c (one twisted corner, 2 edges need to swap, 2 corners need to swap) in 18 and 3c in 26. Which would be better to work on (say, if you couldn’t try both). On average how many moves is 2e3c?

Also I’m not sure about other ways, do tell me if there are, but I would guess in order to solve 2e3c I do a 2e2c alg to get the edges correct and get the twisted corner out of its position - hence reducing into a 3c skeleton.

TLDR: average move count for 2e3c insertion + best/good ways to do 2e3c insertion.
Also: what about 3e2c? (One flipped edge and 2e2c)


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## Loser (Jun 11, 2019)

2e2c+1 is parity and sounds awful to do, I'd probs go for the 26 to 3c. No idea which is better tho. 

If this is from a solve can u share scramble and skeleton(s)?


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 13, 2019)

[Deleted]

—————

This is unrelated, but I don’t want to triple post, so here’s the solve a did yesterday that took me 3 hours(!) to find this solution- it’s pretty darn cool.


Spoiler



Scramble: D2 R' B2 L' D' F' L U' B' L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D L2 F2 U L2 D'


D F U // SQ
R B' L2 // 222
R' // SQ
U' F2 U' (F') // SQ
(F2) L' U R2 U' // SQ
L F2 // Align
R2 // SQ
U' F' U' F R' // Finish
23 HTM
It’s just so elegant, right?


Spoiler



I found other solutions before starting this so I didn’t spent all 3 hours on this one, anyway I got stuck after the U' F2 U' F' and I finally found F2 U R2 U' to continue but it left me with a AB3C skeleton but I didn’t want to use insertions because it was in 3x3 example solve thread so I wanted a linear solution, and so I saw F2 L' U R2 U' worked great (basically gave me a skip). I think just building squares until the end looks really nice.



—————

Instead of triple/quadruple post I’ll edit this post again lol. Has anyone thought of leaving centers for their skeleton to insert a center alg?
They’re only 4 stm / 8 htm so the same length as three corners. Here’s the main two cases:
R L' U' D F B' R L' (8)
R2 L2 U' D F2 B2 U' D (8)
Maybe useful? I haven’t tested it in a real solve so I don’t really know.


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## asacuber (Jun 15, 2019)

1st scramble was nice, found an 11 move domino which I lost and several different eos.

I got a dnf


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 15, 2019)

Today is FMC 2019!
Good luck to everyone competing!


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## porkynator (Jun 15, 2019)

Solutions for my 22.00 WR mean (16, 26, 24) at FMC 2019:

1.
Scramble: R' U' F D2 L2 F R2 U2 R2 B D2 L B2 D' B2 L' R' B D2 B U2 L U2 R' U' F
Solution: D2 F' D2 U2 F' L2 D R2 D B2 F L2 R' F' D U' (16 - optimal!)


Spoiler



I have found a couple of interesting EOs on normal scramble, which looked like they could lead to some nice domino solves. But I decided to switch immediately to check the inverse as well. DR + easy corners = insert right away!

(U D' F R) //EO (4/4)
(L2 F' B2 U' B2 U' * ) //DR (6/10)
(R2 B + F D2) //5e (4/14)

* = U D' F2 D U' # R2 //2e2e (6-2/16)
+ = E2 //Leaves 4x (x = "centers") (2/18)
# = E M2 E' M2 (2)

First solution: D2 F' D2 U2 F' L2 R2 {U' D B2 D B2 U} B2 F L2 R' F' D U' (20)
Replace {U' D B2 D B2 U} with R2 D R2 D, which also cancels 2 with the previous move (-6+4-2)

I don't what to say about this... a really advanced solve with lot of luck involved. I was shaking so much after finding the 16 that I had troubles writing down the first move.



2.
Scramble: R' U' F D2 L2 B F L2 B D2 F L D R2 U2 B L R2 U' R2 U B U2 R' U' F
Solution: U2 R' L B' R2 B L2 B' R2 B U L2 R' D2 R' D' L' D2 L D B2 F2 R' F' L' R (26)


Spoiler



(R' L F) //EO (3/3)
(R F2) U2 //2 squares (3/6)
R' L' * U R2 L2 //223 + pairs (5/11)
R D2 R' //Pseudo F2L-1 (3-1/13)
D' L' D2 L D B2 //3C (6/19)

* = L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R2 B (7) 

Kinda unlucky insertion, but this evens out with the kinda lucky insertion on the last solve 



3.
Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 D B2 D' R2 B2 L2 F' D R2 B D' R D2 F U2 B' U' R' U' F
Solution: F2 R' D R D2 L2 F2 B2 L F L' B2 L F L' U' R2 B2 L' B' R U R L (24)


Spoiler



(L' R' U' R' B) //EO (5/5)
(L B2) F2 //2 squares (3/8)
(R2 U) //222 (2/10)
(L F2 L' F2 L2) //F2L-1 (5/15)
(D2 R' D' R) //3C (4/19)

Skeleton (on normal): F2 R' D R D2 L2 F2 * L F2 L' U' R2 B2 L' B' R U R L
* = B2 L F L' B2 L F' L' (5)

I have found this quite quickly, but it looks like there should be something better.. I had another 24 as well with a very similar skeleton (same 3 corners left):

(L' R' U' R' B) //EO (5/5)
(L B2) F2 //2 squares (3/8)
(R2 U) //222 (2/10)
(L F2 R F2 R2 D2 L D' R)



A few thoughts.
* I am obviously very happy. I have put a lot of effort in FMC lately (practicing almost every day after hours of math research/classes/teaching is really tiring!). it's nice to see hard work paying of.
* I totally was not expecting this. I thought that it was possible we could never see an official 16, and the mo3 is very low too.
* I am sorry for Mark, he only got to keep his records for a couple of weeks...

EDIT: I explain my solves in this video.


Spoiler


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## Cale S (Jun 16, 2019)

23.67 mean at FMC 2019  



Spoiler: 23



R' U' F D2 L2 F R2 U2 R2 B D2 L B2 D' B2 L' R' B D2 B U2 L U2 R' U' F

(L R B) // EO 
(R' D) D2 R' B2 R D' // Domino
(D2 L' U2 R2 F2 R' D2 L') // solve corners

D2 R' B2 R D' L D2 R @ F2 R2 U2 R B' R' L'

@ = U2 R' ^ U2 D2 L D2
^ = R U2 R' L F2 L'

Solution: D2 R' B2 R D' L D2 L F2 L' U2 D2 L D2 F2 R2 U2 R B' R' L' (23)





Spoiler: 26



R' U' F D2 L2 B F L2 B D2 F L D R2 U2 B L R2 U' R2 U B U2 R' U' F

(L R' F) // EO 
(R F2) // sq
U2 R' L' U R2 L2 // 223
R D2 R' // ps F2L - 1
(B2 D2) // 15 to 3e3c

U2 R' L' U L2 R' D2 R' D2 B2 F2 @ R' F' R L'
@ = F' L2 U' B' U B U R' U' R L2 F

Solution: U2 R' L' U L2 R' D2 R' D2 B2 F L2 U' B' U B U R' U' R L2 F R' F' R L' (26)





Spoiler: 22



R' U' F U2 R2 D B2 D' R2 B2 L2 F' D R2 B D' R D2 F U2 B' U' R' U' F

L R2 D B' // EO
L' U2 L2 U' R U' // Domino
R' U2 R @ U2 R // solve corners
R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 // 20 to 3e
@ = R B2 U2 F2 L D2 F2 U2

25 to nothing:
L R2 D B' L' U2 L2 U' R U' R' U2 R2 B2 U2 F2 L D2 F2 ^ R' U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 @
@ = U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R2
^ = F2 D2 L2 B2 L2 D2 F2 R2

Solution: L R2 D B' L' U2 L2 U' R U' R' U2 R2 B2 U2 F2 L' B2 L2 D2 F2 R' (22)


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## asacuber (Jun 16, 2019)

@porkynator Massive congratulations man, you deserve this so much!
@Cale S that last solve was legend haha, but I would have never imagined that one day a sub 24 mean wouldn't podium  Congratulations!
I'll post my last two solves here soon

Did anyone find the 11 to good 7c on the last one?

1: DNF


Spoiler



EOs were very good on this one, couldn't find anything good in time though :/

I lost an 11 move Domino because i wrote everything under the wrong EO  Here is the actual reduction:
D' F B' R'//EO
(F2 B' D2 F' D B' D')//DR
Doesn't look very good to me, can someone help?



2: 27


Spoiler



(R' L F)//EO
(R F2)//sq
(L2 B2)//123
L' R' (1) U R2//223
L' D' L2 D' L'//Good 6C in 16

(1)= L D L' (2) U2 L D' L' U2 (8-3=5)
(2)= B' L F' L' B L F L' (8-2=6)

Comments: Again a very nice scramble for EOs. Got slightly lucky with the good 6C. Optimal too 



3: 27


Spoiler



F2 R'//EO
(U' L2 D2 F)//ps222+ lots of edges
(D' B U2 B' U2)//Good 7C in 11

F2 R' U2 B U2 (2) B' D F' D2 (1) L2 U

(1)= D2 F' U2 F D2 F' U2 F (8-3=5)
(2)= U B U' F' U B' (3) U' F (8-1=7) 
(3)= B2 U' F' U B2 U F U' (8-4=4) 

Comments: wow. I freaked out when I couldn't find anything better than a 1 cancel after the first insertion but then I got lucky on the third Also optimal.



Oh well, I'll get a mean next time lol

also 19.67 potential mean!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hssandwich (Jun 16, 2019)

23.00 Mean from FMC 2019! 21, 26, 22

#1: 21

R' U' F D2 L2 F R2 U2 R2 B D2 L B2 D' B2 L' R' B D2 B U2 L U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(D' U F R) //EO
(L2 B2 F' U' B2 U) //domino
(R2 F B D2) //14 to 5e

Skeleton: D2 B' F' * R2 U B2 U F B2 L2 R' F' U' D
*: B U2 D2 F U D' L2 U D' (2 cancel)

Solution: D2 F' U2 D2 F U D' L2 U D' R2 U B2 U F B2 L2 R' F' U' D (21)

Notes: The same skeleton as Sebastiano, not particularly annoyed that I didn't find the 16 though, I would never have tried those insertions after finding the 9-2 !



#2: 26
R' U' F D2 L2 B F L2 B D2 F L D R2 U2 B L R2 U' R2 U B U2 R' U' F


Spoiler



(L R' F) //EO
(R F2 D' B2 L') //pseudo 223 + square
U2 R D' R F2 R' F2 //pseudo F2L-1
U' R' U //pseudo F2L
F R2 F' R' F2 L F' R' F L' //finish

Solution: U2 R D' R F2 R' F2 U' R' U F R2 F' R' F2 L F' R' F B2 D F2 R' F' R L' (26)

Notes: I feel like this solution is pretty lucky, I had a 16 to 5e from the same start and messed around with some slices but could only get 28.


#3: 22

R' U' F U2 R2 D B2 D' R2 B2 L2 F' D R2 B D' R D2 F U2 B' U' R' U' F


Spoiler



L R2 D B' //EO
L' U2 L2 U' R U' //domino
R' U2 R ^ U2 R //15 to 2e2e + 3e

^: R B2 U2 F2 L @ D2 F2 U2 (3 cancel)
@: L2 B2 L2 D2 F2 R2 F2 D2 (6 cancel)

Solution: L R2 D B' L' U2 L2 U' R U' R' U2 R2 B2 U2 F2 L' B2 L2 D2 F2 R' (22)

Notes: Lots of luck involved in the insertion here, but nice that it was another domino solve


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## h2f (Jun 16, 2019)

@pjk I guess Sebastiano post needs to be a new thread in Records forum.


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## porkynator (Jun 16, 2019)

@Cale S not strictly related to your solves, but I noticed you have been doing a lot of domino practice lately. Do you think it may be viable as an FMC method by itself, replacing the "mix of everything one knows" that almost everyone is using now? Do you think one can consistently average say sub27 within time limit? Or even less maybe?


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Jun 16, 2019)

porkynator said:


> @Cale S not strictly related to your solves, but I noticed you have been doing a lot of domino practice lately. Do you think it may be viable as an FMC method by itself, replacing the "mix of everything one knows" that almost everyone is using now? Do you think one can consistently average say sub27 within time limit? Or even less maybe?


I know Cale is doing a lot of that stuff, but also I know @WoowyBaby is doing a ton of Domino-related ideas. I would ask them both, Woowy just got a PB 22.33 mean on the speedsolving weekly competitions where 2 of the 3 solves used a variant of domino.


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## theos (Jun 16, 2019)

While not as good as some of the other amazing solves in FMC 2019, I was still very happy to get the new African record mean: 30.00.



Spoiler: #1: 28 moves



Scramble: R' U' F D2 L2 F R2 U2 R2 B D2 L B2 D' B2 L' R' B D2 B U2 L U2 R' U' F 
Solve: D' B' F R F2 D2 R' B R F2 R' B' R D F D2 F2 D' F2 D F2 L2 F L2 F' U2 F' U2

EO: D' B' F R [4/4]
2x2x2: (U2 F U2) [3/7]
2x2x3: (F L2 F' L2) [4/11]
F2L-1: F2 D2 @ F2 D F D2 [6/17]
AB3C: F2 D' F2 D F2 [5/22]
Insert corners at @: R' B R F2 R' B' R F2 [6/28]





Spoiler: #2: 32 moves



Scramble: R' U' F D2 L2 B F L2 B D2 F L D R2 U2 B L R2 U' R2 U B U2 R' U' F 
Solve: U' B2 L U R B R' F R B' R F' L2 F R2 F' B2 L2 U L U2 L2 L' U2 L U' D2 L' B2 U F' L' R

EO: (R' L F) [3/3]
2x2x2: (U' B2 L D2) [4/7]
2x2x3: U' B2 L U @ L2 B2 [6/13]
F2L-1: L2 U L U2 L2 [5/18]
AB5C: L' U2 L U' [3/21]
Insert corners at @: # F R2 F' L2 F R2 F' L2 [6/27]
Insert corners at #: R B R' F R B' R' F' [5/32]





Spoiler: #3: 30 moves



Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 D B2 D' R2 B2 L2 F' D R2 B D' R D2 F U2 B' U' R' U' F 
Solve: U R F2 R' B R F2 R' B U' F2 U B2 U' R F L2 U F L2 U' F2 U F' U F R2 D' F' U

EO: @ F2 R [2/2]
2x2x2: (U' F D R2) [4/6]
2x2x3: F L2 U F L2 [5/11]
AB5C: U' F2 U F' U F [6/17]
Insert corners at @: U # B2 U' F2 U B2 U' F2 [6/23]
Insert corners at #: R F2 R' B R F2 R' B' [7/30]


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## Cale S (Jun 16, 2019)

porkynator said:


> @Cale S not strictly related to your solves, but I noticed you have been doing a lot of domino practice lately. Do you think it may be viable as an FMC method by itself, replacing the "mix of everything one knows" that almost everyone is using now? Do you think one can consistently average say sub27 within time limit? Or even less maybe?



While practicing for this comp I did a session of attempts using only domino and got a 24.95 avg25, so I think domino only as a method can consistently average sub-27 for sure, and maybe even sub-26 or sub-25.

The main thing that really improved my finishes recently was realizing how effective it is to solve corners, then insert slices and edge algs to finish.


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 16, 2019)

Congratulations to everyone at FMC 2019!
I would’ve never known official 16 single would happen, let alone so soon! And then we got WR mean of 22.00! @porkynator your hard work of FMC over the years really pays off! I bet you’re very happy about your results!
And then the fact that there were 6 people with a sub 26 mean and ~20 people with a sub 28 mean is just amazing!
FMC 2019 was a very successful competition. Good job guys!

@ImmolatedMarmoset I’m sorry, don’t look at me. I’ve been cheating. I take however much time I’d like not 1hr, and I even use cube explorer to find a few moves for my solution which is even worse. I kinda want to delete cheated results. I’m going to follow the rules. I still invest a lot of time into learning FMC techniques and thats my excuse for myself, but no excuse is good. Some of my results are a mix of real and fake, so it's hard to clear everything, so the safe bet is to not trust anything I've done before today. I'm sorry I’ve done this.

@porkynator I don’t know if straight Domino would always give you great results within an hour, but I do know that doing Domino but leaving some edges to be inserted with a 2e2e or 3cycle is really quite nice and could give you better results with less time.


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## GenTheThief (Jun 16, 2019)

My much, much worse FMC solutions:



Spoiler: Attempt 1, 36



R' U' F D2 L2 F R2 U2 R2 B D2 L B2 D' B2 L' R' B D2 B U2 L U2 R' U' F

x2 // Being bad
R D' R L' F' // EO
R' D' R D' R' L' D2 // Line + some blocks
U F2 D R2 D' F2 // LF F2L insert + preserve blocks
R2 U2 R2 U R' // Pseudo block
U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R2 U2 R' U' R U' // 2GLL that cancels into the pseudo block

Final: x2 R D' R L' F' R' D' R D' R' L' D2 U F2 D R2 D' F2 R2 U2 R2 U R' U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R2 U2 R' U' R U'

36

I found this pretty quickly and wasn't able to do anything else with it.





Spoiler: Attempt 2, 33



R' U' F D2 L2 B F L2 B D2 F L D R2 U2 B L R2 U' R2 U B U2 R' U' F

U2 R' U2 R2 F R // 2x2
y2 // Being bad
U R U2 F R2 // 2x2x3
U R' F2 R F // F2L-1
U2 R' U2 R2 U R2 U R2 // F2L+cancelling into ZBLL
B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 R2 U' // ZBLL

Final: U2 R' U2 R2 F R y2 U R U2 F R2 U R' F2 R F U2 R' U2 R2 U R2 U R2 B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 R2 U'

33

I just realized now that the ZBLL was just 3c and I probably could have looked for an insertion, especially since I found this within 10 minutes. But, I've never practiced that and it already cancelled a move so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.




Spoiler: alternate solution



I also found this 10 minutes after the other and spent the rest of the solve trying to look for an insertion, but couldn't find anything that would save a move.

R' U' F D2 L2 B F L2 B D2 F L D R2 U2 B L R2 U' R2 U B U2 R' U' F

U2 R F R2 U2 R' // 2x2
y2 // Being bad
F' R' F R' U' R' D' F' D F2 // 2x2x3
R U R' U' R U2 R U' // Magic - 24 to 3c
F' L F' R2 F L' F' R2 F2 // ZBLL

Not final: U2 R F R2 U2 R' y2 F' R' F R' U' R' D' F' D F2 R U R' U' R U2 R U' F' L F' R2 F L' F' R2 F2

33








Spoiler: Attempt 3, 36



R' U' F U2 R2 D B2 D' R2 B2 L2 F' D R2 B D' R D2 F U2 B' U' R' U' F

x2 // Being bad
L R2 U F R' U R' F2 // D2 away from line + 2 2x2 blocks kinda
R L D2 R' // Get blocks in order
D U2 L' U' L U L' U' L U D' // Keyhole F2L-1
R' U R2 // Last pair + cancel into 2GLL
U2 R2 U' R2 U' R' U R' U R // 2GLL

Final: x2 L R2 U F R' U R' F2 R L D2 R' D U2 L' U' L U L' U' L U D' R' U R2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' R' U R' U R

36

This took a lot more work to find. Getting the blocks to work and lead to anything decent took most of the time and I found the end with about 15 to go.



Spoiler: alternate solution



but

R' U' F U2 R2 D B2 D' R2 B2 L2 F' D R2 B D' R D2 F U2 B' U' R' U' F

z2 // Being bad
U D2 R F // EO
L U' L F2 U' R2 // XXEOLine
U' R U R' // Insert
L U' L' U' L U // Insert + get a zbll that I can figure out
F U2 F' U2 F U' F' U' F U F' U L' U2 // H ZBLL

Not final: z2 U D2 R F L U' L F2 U' R2 U' R U R' L U' L' U' L U F U2 F' U2 F U' F' U' F U F' U L' U2

34

I found this end about 15 minutes after the attempt ended. I hadn't even looked at other EOs cuz I'm bad.

I don't know the adj swap H ZBLLs, but I know full Pi, and the inverse of the adj H sets are Pi algs so I knew would be able to solve it. I figured out which alg it was and did that. Rip sub 35 mean.






What a great competition.


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Jun 16, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Congratulations to everyone at FMC 2019!
> I would’ve never known official 16 single would happen, let alone so soon! And then we got WR mean of 22.00! @porkynator your hard work of FMC over the years really pays off! I bet you’re very happy about your results!
> And then the fact that there were 6 people with a sub 26 mean and ~20 people with a sub 28 mean is just amazing!
> FMC 2019 was a very successful competition. Good job guys!
> ...


Ok! Either way, I know you’ve been doing a lot with that stuff, and I still think it’s interesting to point out.


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## guusrs (Jun 16, 2019)

porkynator said:


> Solutions for my 22.00 WR mean (16, 26, 24) at FMC 2019:
> 
> 1.
> Scramble: R' U' F D2 L2 F R2 U2 R2 B D2 L B2 D' B2 L' R' B D2 B U2 L U2 R' U' F
> Solution: D2 F' D2 U2 F' L2 D R2 D B2 F L2 R' F' D U' (16 - optimal!)



Well done Sebastiano you deserve both world records! 
I found U D' F R on inverse toom but didn't spend much time on it because all EO's looked interesting, appreantly I picked up the wrong one and I'm not good in domino solves!


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## Kit Clement (Jun 16, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> @ImmolatedMarmoset I’m sorry, don’t look at me. I'm a cheater. I take however much time I’d like, not 1 hour and I use the forbidden cube explorer to find a few moves for my solution. I’m going to delete cheated results. I’m going to follow the rules. I still invest a lot of time into learning FMC techniques and thats my excuse for myself, but no excuse is good. Lots of my results are a mix of real and fake, so it's hard to clear everything, so the safe bet is to not trust anything I've done before today. Once you see perhaps 28ish means you’ll know it’s me being real, even though they might look similar to my illegitimate ones. I'm sorry I’ve done this.



I was kind of wondering about some of your competition solutions. Didn't want to say too much because they were all valid explanations and had some kind of interesting, novel approaches, but ones that I was skeptical could be done in 1hr. Very cool that you're practicing DR stuff, but definitely good to keep that to non-competition scrambles.


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## pjk (Jun 17, 2019)

h2f said:


> @pjk I guess Sebastiano post needs to be a new thread in Records forum.


Thanks. Reposted into the record thread here.


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## LambdaPi (Jun 17, 2019)

I'm just wondering, are there methods for Domino Reduction finishes? Or is it just try some blockbuilding, corner placement?


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 17, 2019)

LambdaPi said:


> I'm just wondering, are there methods for Domino Reduction finishes? Or is it just try some blockbuilding, corner placement?


Yes! There’s a couple of methods:

There’s Half-Turn-Only Reduction, where you reduce the cube further to a [R2,L2,U2,D2,F2,B2] state, then it’s usually easy to finish from there. This is what Thistlewaite’s algorithm does.

Then there’s also solving Corners + as many edges as you can, and then inserting slices and 2e2e and 3e algs into your skeleton. This is what Cale Schoon does very often and many other people have had great results with this. I’d say this is a lot more popular than HTOR.

Hope this answered your question!


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## LambdaPi (Jun 18, 2019)

I've been doing a bunch of practice solves, and I just can't break the sub 30 barrier.

Here's my latest one, I got pretty close but couldn't find a good insertion:



Spoiler



Scramble: B2 R2 D2 U L2 D' F2 R2 F2 U2 L' F' R D U B2 L2 B2 F D
Solution: R2 U' L U' F2 B' L2 B2 L B L' U L U' F' L F U L' U' L2 B' U2 B U2 B2 U F U' B2 U F'

R2 U' L U' F2 //2x2x2
B' L2 B2 L B //2x2x3 + preserve pairs
(U B' U2 B) //F2l-1 + preserve pair
(L2 U L U') //square + pair on last layer
(F' L' F U L' U' L) //orient and place edge pair and square

Skeleton: R2 U' L U' F2 B' L2 B2 L B L' U L U' F' L F U L' U' L2 B' U2 B U' *
Insertion: * U' B2 U F U' B2 U F'

32 moves
Couldn't find a better insertion with more than 1 move cancel. Checked insertion finder later and it also only gave 1 move cancels. Unlucky.



I saw that a lot of good fmc solves almost always begin with EO. Is that just a generally good way to start the solve instead of immediately looking for blocks?


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 19, 2019)

Here's a really, really, quick way to get to Domino Reduction but is often pretty inefficent.
Easy to understand but not great results.

Here's some examples-

Scramble: R' U' F U B' R2 U2 B' D2 B' R2 F' D2 R2 B2 L2 D R B D F L2 B R' U' F

R' L B' // EO
R' D U' L U2 L // CO
D2 U R U2 D2 L // E-edges
15 move DR found in 2 mins

Scramble: R' U' F U2 F' D R2 B R U' F' U L2 B2 R2 B R2 B' L2 U2 L2 D2 R' U' F

F' D U2 L F' // EO
R U R' D2 R // CO
U F2 D L U2 D2 R // E-edges
17 move DR found in 1.5 mins

Scramble: R' U' F B2 R' U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 U2 F' L2 R2 B2 F' L2 R' U' R U' L' B2 D' R' U' F

R' U2 D' B R' // EO
F D' F' U F // CO
U D2 B U2 D2 F // E-edges
16 move DR found in 2 mins

Obviously 16 moves for Domino Reduction isn't great, 10 moves is something really great, but the whole point of this is to do DR quick with reasonable efficiency, so maybe if you're running out of time and you want something decent that's not a DNF or something.
However, if you spend more than 2 minutes, maybe 5 or 6 minutes using this you could easily get 13-14 move DR's with this.

Here's an unrelated but still interesting fact about Domino/Kociemba- The first phase takes 9.53 moves on average optimally, and the second takes 13.28 moves. So an initial computer solution using Domino/Kociemba is around 23 moves, but of course solving phase 1 slightly suboptimally to result in a very short phase 2 is the reason Cube Explorer can yield 19 move solutions using it within seconds. Alright you probably don't care too much so move your eyes to the next paragraph below lol.

By the way, when doing the final move of EO see which choice of F vs F' (or whatever move) gets you better CO, and similarily, the final move of CO can either be a clockwise or counterclockwise turn, so see which way makes a better E-edges case. Generally you want two E-edges already in, because the E-edge algorithm, R E2 R', puts in 2 E-edges. Having an odd number of edges in usually sucks. (although R U M2 U' R' isn't that bad)

But just know that the most efficient way to do Domino is to setup to a single move. But then again that requires more mental power and a lot more time.
But I know it's better.
So basically I'm just offering a worse lazy alternative xD

Now I'll try to find a very easy way to get from Domino to solved with reasonable efficiency so perhaps you can find a sub-40 move Domino solution in 5 minutes or so.
But just remember, complex and difficult to conceptualize solutions are generally more efficient, so don't expect to get world class results with a simple method like this.
I'll post again once I find something for phase 2, so stay tuned or whatever!


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 19, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Scramble: R' U' F U B' R2 U2 B' D2 B' R2 F' D2 R2 B2 L2 D R B D F L2 B R' U' F
> 
> R' L B' // EO
> R2 D U' L U2 L // CO
> ...


The other two seem to work fine, but this first one seems to not work right on the CO. Typo somewhere? Or am I doing it wrong?


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 19, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> The other two seem to work fine, but this first one seems to not work right on the CO. Typo somewhere? Or am I doing it wrong?


Oops! Typo. Should be R' instead of R2, I’ll edit that now


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 24, 2019)

An Interesting FMC Skeleton-

Scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 F R2 D2 B2 F' R2 U2 B D2 U' L2 B D' L' B' R' D2 U' R' U' F

L2 F L' // EO (3)
U' L2 B F // Five Pairs (4)
U2 B L2 F2 // Combine (4)
U2 D // Two Pairs (2)
B' U2 D2 F // Combine (4)

AB2C2E in 17

This is an example of what I call “freebuilding”, where you don’t have a specific blockbuilding substep or goal, such as 2x2x2 or F2L-1. I believe I shared a 23 move solution recently in this thread using this idea. I think this way of solving is “objectively superior” but I want to know what you think about it.

But also, I don’t know many 2c2e algs, only like the 10 move J-Perms, and really I’m just not great at insertions in general, so if you could show me a nice way to finish my FMC practice solve that’d be great 



LambdaPi said:


> I saw that a lot of good fmc solves almost always begin with EO. Is that just a generally good way to start the solve instead of immediately looking for blocks?


EO is a very nice way of beginning a solve, especially if it’s only 3 moves or so, and it also usually makes blocks easier to build. EO is actually the very first thing I check whenever I start FMC.


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## xyzzy (Jun 25, 2019)

LambdaPi said:


> I've been doing a bunch of practice solves, and I just can't break the sub 30 barrier.
> 
> Here's my latest one, I got pretty close but couldn't find a good insertion:
> 
> ...



Having a bunch of pairs around doesn't mean you have to preserve all of them. Usually preserving them is good, but sometimes you just get five pairs or something ridiculous and there's no reason to keep all of them. Having two pairs around after 223 is fine, but don't spend too many moves trying to preserve them.

Here's one trick I like (but probably isn't that useful in general—it's not even useful _here_). Any time you have a pair connected to the centre, but with a wrong edge next to it, you can always solve the opposite edge and align with premoves.

R2 U' L U' F2 B' L2 B2 L B // 223 (10/10)
L F' L' F L' // EO, finish cross, insert corner and edge in different slots (5/15)
D (D) // keyhole magic (2/17)
// then finish the skeleton or do whatever, e.g.
L' U' L U' L' U' L U L U2 L2 U' L2 U' L2 U2 L // LSLL (17/34)

---

Going back to your solution, after your F2L-1 you have all of the red F2L solved except for one corner, and two flipped edges on orange along with a pair. The two flipped edges aren't opposite colours, so some kind of fruruf will be able to solve the edges; fruruf also preserves a pair, but unless you have that already memorised, you probably don't know whether it'll preserve the orange-blue-yellow pair. So let's try it and see what happens:

R2 U' L U' F2 B' L2 B2 L B // 223 (10/10)
(U B' U2 B) // F2L-1, two bad edges (4/14)
(B D L D' L' B' L2) // fruruf to solve edges; ab4c (7-1/20)

20 to 4c isn't very likely to give you sub-30, but you could keep this skeleton as a backup. Another alg for the same LL edges case (opp flip, not opposite colours) is sexysledge, which also preserves a pair somewhere (along with flipping two pairs, but you can see that the two flipped edges you have aren't part of pairs so that doesn't matter):

R2 U' L U' F2 B' L2 B2 L B // 223 (10/10)
(U B' U2 B) // F2L-1, two bad edges (4/14)
(L2 U L U' L' U' F U F') // sexysledge to solve edges; ab3c (9/23)

23 to 3c is _much_ more likely to give you a sub-30; you just need the insertion to cancel two moves and you'll get a 29. Indeed, IF says the optimal insertion cancels two moves:

R2 U' L U' F2 B' L2 B2 L [@1] B F U' F' U L U L' U' L2 B' U2 B U'
Insert at @1: L B2 L' F2 L B2 L' F2
Fewest moves: 29. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: R2 U' L U' F2 B' L2 B2 L2 B2 L' F2 L B2 L' F' B U' F' U L U L' U' L2 B' U2 B U'



LambdaPi said:


> I saw that a lot of good fmc solves almost always begin with EO. Is that just a generally good way to start the solve instead of immediately looking for blocks?


I rarely ever use EO starts and I strongly prefer blockbuilding starts. 80% of the time when I do an EO start and build blocks from there, I end up having two of the "wrong" faces left to solve… (E.g. EO on the F-B axis, and I solve a block on DB, leaving U and F faces free. But F and F' moves destroy EO!)

But yes, I think community consensus has shifted towards EO starts being good in general (and I'm just whining because I suck at it).



WoowyBaby said:


> An Interesting FMC Skeleton-
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 F R2 D2 B2 F' R2 U2 B D2 U' L2 B D' L' B' R' D2 U' R' U' F
> 
> ...



Two different 2c2e insertions ("pick one", not "do both").

L2 @1 F L' U' L2 B F U2 B L2 F2 U2 D B' @2 U2 D2 F
@1 = [U : U2 L F2 L' U2 B2 L' D2 L B2 R'] // T perm; 12 moves
@2 = [U' : L2 F L F' L D2 R' B R D2] // J perm; 12 moves cancelling 3 = 9

Didn't find any other place in the skeleton to insert short 2c2e algs. The T perm alg is R2 u R2 u' R2 F2 u' F2 u F2 U'; you can replace every other u/u' with U/U' too, but this is unlikely to cancel more moves. (Usually, if you can cancel more moves, you can also insert a 10-move J perm instead of an 11-move T perm.)

In my experience, unrestricted blockbuilding is cool when it works, but really annoying when it doesn't. With too many blocks everywhere, you might be tempted to waste moves preserving all of them.


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## guysensei1 (Jun 25, 2019)

Solutions+thoughts for my 24.33 NR (AsR #2) mean at Medan Farewell 2019:


R' U' F L2 B2 R F2 R' D2 L2 R U2 F U R' F' L2 D2 F' R2 U L2 F2 R' U' F, 25 moves



Spoiler



(B) R U' B'//EO (4/4)
D L (R2 L2 B2 U2 L' U L)//DR (9/13)
(D2 L2 D' R2 D F2)//6e (6/19)

R U' B' D L F2 D' R2 D L2 D2 * L' U' L U2 B2 L2 R2 B'

*=D2 L2 D2 R2 ** U2 R2 (6-5/20)
**=R2 F2 L2 D' L2 F2 R2 U' (8-3/25)

Final: R U' B' D L F2 D' R2 D' F2 L2 D' L2 F2 R2 U R2 L' U' L U2 B2 L2 R2 B'

This is my first official solve with domino reduction, insertions were lucky though



R' U' F D B2 U2 L2 F2 U B2 D L R' B D2 R2 F' U R' F' R' U R' U' F, 25 moves



Spoiler



F' (R' U F')//EO (4/4)
(U D R') U' D L2 R D' R'//DR (9/13)
(B2 U' R2 B2 U')//2e2e (5/18)
(U R L' B2 D U' L D' U L R')//solved (11-4/25)

Final: F' U' D L2 R D' L' U' D L' U D' B2 R' L B2 R2 U B2 R D' U' F U' R

I found a 21 to 3c backup solution that ended with 26 final so I was fairly relaxed for the rest of the attempt. Found this 2e2e at 40 minutes. Turns out optimal is 24 with some nested cancellations. I don't think I would have found that even if I had more time.



R' U' F R2 B U2 R2 F U2 B U2 F' D B' R D R' F L2 F2 D U2 B2 R' U' F, 23 moves



Spoiler



L (L U' L)//EO (4/4)
(U F' U') F2//222 (4/8)
D B' D (D2)// (4/12)
(R2 B' D' R2 D)//5c (5-2/15)

L F2 D B' R2 D B R2 * D2 U F U' L' U L'

*=R ** U R' D2 R U' R' D2 (8-3/20)
**=R D R' U R D' R' U' (8-5/23)

Final: L F2 D B' R2 D B D R' U R D' R2 D2 R U' R' U F U' L' U L'

I knew that I needed a 26 to break NR mean, so when I found this 15 to 5c at 20 minutes I knew I was most likely going to succeed. My past 4 official 5cs have been +12 moves optimal so it's nice to finally have a good cancellation


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## LambdaPi (Jun 25, 2019)

I noticed that in many of people's EO often involves a NISS. When do you decide that you want to go inverse and is it really that much better?



guysensei1 said:


> Solutions+thoughts for my 24.33 NR (AsR #2) mean at Medan Farewell 2019:
> 
> 
> R' U' F L2 B2 R F2 R' D2 L2 R U2 F U R' F' L2 D2 F' R2 U L2 F2 R' U' F, 25 moves
> ...



For example in that solve, you used a switch to solve EO, however there is a 4 move EO on the normal scramble as well, and I can't immediately see why one is better than another. You do a B move on the inverse, so does that have something to do with the DR step, like with you orienting 3 corners and placing one E layer edge on the E layer? Or is it something else I am missing?


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Jun 25, 2019)

LambdaPi said:


> I noticed that in many of people's EO often involves a NISS. When do you decide that you want to go inverse and is it really that much better?
> 
> 
> 
> For example in that solve, you used a switch to solve EO, however there is a 4 move EO on the normal scramble as well, and I can't immediately see why one is better than another. You do a B move on the inverse, so does that have something to do with the DR step, like with you orienting 3 corners and placing one E layer edge on the E layer? Or is it something else I am missing?


It’s important to remember that FMC isn’t linear in the 1 hour format that we have in competitions. Wong probably tried all of the possibilities that he thought were viable. I personally go on the inverse when I find something not-so-great on the normal scramble. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but one has a lot of time to play around with things during FMC, and what you’re tackling about ties into that.


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## guysensei1 (Jun 26, 2019)

LambdaPi said:


> I noticed that in many of people's EO often involves a NISS. When do you decide that you want to go inverse and is it really that much better?
> 
> 
> 
> For example in that solve, you used a switch to solve EO, however there is a 4 move EO on the normal scramble as well, and I can't immediately see why one is better than another. You do a B move on the inverse, so does that have something to do with the DR step, like with you orienting 3 corners and placing one E layer edge on the E layer? Or is it something else I am missing?


I tried the 4 move EO on normal, as well as the 3 move EO on the inverse, but I couldn't find any good continuations off that

I then noticed if I do a B on inverse it will leave a 3 move EO on normal so I gave that a try too. 

If that did not work out I would most likely have tried EO on a different axis but luckily it worked out.


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## asacuber (Jun 26, 2019)

guysensei1 said:


> I tried the 4 move EO on normal, as well as the 3 move EO on the inverse, but I couldn't find any good continuations off that
> 
> I then noticed if I do a B on inverse it will leave a 3 move EO on normal so I gave that a try too.
> 
> If that did not work out I would most likely have tried EO on a different axis but luckily it worked out.



How do you determine how many moves it takes to do EO on the inverse without actually going to the inverse?


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## xyzzy (Jun 26, 2019)

asacuber said:


> How do you determine how many moves it takes to do EO on the inverse without actually going to the inverse?


(Assuming white-top green-front; adjust accordingly otherwise.)

If the white-green edge is bad on normal, then the UF edge is bad on inverse; if the white-blue edge is bad on normal, then the UB edge is bad on inverse; etc. It also works the other way: if the UF edge is bad on normal, then the white-green edge is bad on inverse, and so on. If you make use of this, you'll never have to actually do the inverse scramble to find where all the bad edges are.


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## guysensei1 (Jun 26, 2019)

xyzzy said:


> (Assuming white-top green-front; adjust accordingly otherwise.)
> 
> If the white-green edge is bad on normal, then the UF edge is bad on inverse; if the white-blue edge is bad on normal, then the UB edge is bad on inverse; etc. It also works the other way: if the UF edge is bad on normal, then the white-green edge is bad on inverse, and so on. If you make use of this, you'll never have to actually do the inverse scramble to find where all the bad edges are.



This, I saw that doing (B) resulted in 2 blue bad edges so I knew it was a decent start


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## asacuber (Jun 26, 2019)

xyzzy said:


> (Assuming white-top green-front; adjust accordingly otherwise.)
> 
> If the white-green edge is bad on normal, then the UF edge is bad on inverse; if the white-blue edge is bad on normal, then the UB edge is bad on inverse; etc. It also works the other way: if the UF edge is bad on normal, then the white-green edge is bad on inverse, and so on. If you make use of this, you'll never have to actually do the inverse scramble to find where all the bad edges are.



This makes sense. Thanks 

Edit: Haven't spent much time on this scramble but 2 people got 21s on this: *R' U' F L2 D R2 D B2 L2 R2 F2 D R F2 D' R2 F R' U L' D2 L' U2 R' U' F *
Northern Virginia Summer 2019, scr 3.


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## Cale S (Jun 27, 2019)

asacuber said:


> Edit: Haven't spent much time on this scramble but 2 people got 21s on this: *R' U' F L2 D R2 D B2 L2 R2 F2 D R F2 D' R2 F R' U L' D2 L' U2 R' U' F *
> Northern Virginia Summer 2019, scr 3.



The 21 solution:
L F2 D B F R' // 222 + pairs
L B L B2 L' // F2L - 1
L D L' D' L D L' // F2L 
L' D' F' D F L // LL 

definitely not something I would ever try


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## asacuber (Jun 27, 2019)

Cale S said:


> The 21 solution:
> L F2 D B F R' // 222 + pairs
> L B L B2 L' // F2L - 1
> L D L' D' L D L' // F2L
> ...



Exactly, same haha


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## TipsterTrickster (Jun 28, 2019)

asacuber said:


> This makes sense. Thanks
> 
> Edit: Haven't spent much time on this scramble but 2 people got 21s on this: *R' U' F L2 D R2 D B2 L2 R2 F2 D R F2 D' R2 F R' U L' D2 L' U2 R' U' F *
> Northern Virginia Summer 2019, scr 3.





Cale S said:


> The 21 solution:
> L F2 D B F R' // 222 + pairs
> L B L B2 L' // F2L - 1
> L D L' D' L D L' // F2L
> ...


Lol yeah, I found that in like the first 20 minutes of the attempt. I already had a 28 and a DNF(36), the DNF was because I thought I had the insertion written wrong, so fixed it, but it turns out it was right all along lol. Then on the last attempt, I was still pretty mad about the DNF (because I wanted to qualify for nats) so I was just angrily messing around with the cube and found this lol. I jumped up really quickly (kinda making a scene lol) and turned it in, Blake saw this and was like.. hey maybe I should try something different, and found this.


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## Lvl9001Wizard (Jul 2, 2019)

Rather than being scared by DR everytime I do EO first, I decided to do some practice...took 2 random scrambles from CS timer, would appreciate advice on how to do things differently and more efficiently

Note: for the sake of time I did not bother with NISS, and only did EO on the F/B axis, placed E layer edges and oriented U/D corners.
(Both still took 20 mins each rip)

Scramble: U' B' L2 U2 F' U B2 D' L' D2 B L2 B' R2 B R2 D2 F2 U2 R2

F' D F // EO
D' U' L'
D' U' L' U L
U' L' U L // DR (15 moves)

U R2 U' L2 R2 F2 // why not lol 3e4c 


Scramble: B F2 R2 U2 F' L2 F' L2 R2 U2 R2 F' U' L U2 F D2 L D' U2 B'

U2 F R L U B // EO
D' U R U R'
U L D2 L' // DR (15 moves but not many good continuations)

What's a "good" movecount to do DR in if you are aiming for sub 30? For reference, 2x2x3 in 9 or 10 moves would be a "good" movecount for sub 30
And sorry for not doing any research lol (there's tons of DR solves in this thread but I cbs looking at all of them) but what's the average number of moves taken to do DR given the whole solution was <25 moves.

Thanks


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## LambdaPi (Jul 2, 2019)

Lvl9001Wizard said:


> What's a "good" movecount to do DR in if you are aiming for sub 30?



Idk how to solve dr well, however it seems that 10-12 moves is in the ballpark for sub30.

However if it has an awesome continuation then 15 or more is fine too of course.


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## porkynator (Jul 2, 2019)

I think 10 is very good for DR. One should probably aim at 12 or less. But I admit I only use DR when I stumble upon a good one, not so often 



Lvl9001Wizard said:


> Scramble: U' B' L2 U2 F' U B2 D' L' D2 B L2 B' R2 B R2 D2 F2 U2 R2
> 
> F' D F // EO
> D' U' L'
> ...



After your EO you could have done:
D2 U' L'
D2 U2 L' U L //DR (11 moves)


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## LambdaPi (Jul 3, 2019)

Inspired by lvl9001wizard I too decided to try a dr solve. Did the first one on the competition website (spent a lot more than 1 hour) and got this:



Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F B2 U' R B' U2 F' D B2 R D2 F U2 B2 D2 B R2 U2 R2 F2 R' U' F

(L B' D2 L' F') //EO
(D' R) D R2 L2 F2 U D2 R //DR (i thought huh not bad 14 moves)
D' F2 U2 R2 U D' L2 D' //22 to 2e2c

Skeleton: D R2 L2 F2 U D2 R D' F2 U2 R2 U D' L2 D' R' D F L D2 B L'



I would consider this a pretty lucky solve (especially since i am abysmal at the part after DR, and not too good at the DR step either), however the 2e2c really tripped me up and made this a bad solve.

I have no practice doing 2e2c and I only know the 11 move jperm for that situation. So would I need to just learn a bunch of those algs for 2e2с insertions?

I ended up just putting a pure R perm at the end on the niss inverse so the final solution is


Spoiler



D R2 L2 F2 U D2 R D' F2 U2 R2 U D' L2 D' D' F2 L' F' D' F' D F L F' D2 F D2 F' R' D F L D2 B L'

(2 D' magically cancelled to D2 so 35 moves)


I was also considering a sune+corner com combo, but didn't try that yet.

Ok i guess for my first complete DR solve, but I would appreciate any tips or suggestions you guys can give.


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## LambdaPi (Jul 6, 2019)

Appologies for double post, but I just got my first sub 30  yay.

2nd scramble from this week's fmc comp


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F L2 U2 F2 D' L2 D L2 D2 L2 U L' D' U2 B2 R' B' R' U L B2 D R' U' F

(R2 F D2 L B') //EO (5/5)
L2 U L' U F2 D' R2 D L' //DR (9/14)
(U' R2) //3x2x1 + line (11/16)
U D F2 U D L2 D //finish to 3e (7/23)

checked for inserts
o **** 6 move com in beginning
o **** cancel 1

Skeleton: * L2 U L' U F2 D' R2 D L' U D F2 U D L2 D R2 U B L' D2 F' R2
Insertion: U2 R L' B2 R' L *

Cancel 1 move

Solution: U2 R L' B2 R' L' U L' U F2 D' R2 D L' U D F2 U D L2 D R2 U B L' D2 F' R2



28 moves

Insertion was lucky af in my opinion, considering that this was my first time doing an edge commutator un a solve.

I think this was probably my 10th fmc solve so I am very happy.


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## 2018AMSB02 (Jul 7, 2019)

Hi! I don't know much about FMC, but I was just thinking about the way that you do it in competitions. They give you a simple scramble, but you are not allowed to use any parts of that scramble, right? (please correct me if I am wrong, like I said, I don't know much about FMC).
It seems like it could be fairer if they either gave you a long scramble or a cube pre-scrambled because then the competitor would have more freedom of moves, and people wouldn't have to read the solutions and decide if it is fair enough. There could be organizers at different competitions who are stricter than others, which can make setting records complicated and debatable. What do you guys know about this? Is there something that I am missing?


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## Cuberstache (Jul 7, 2019)

PingPongCuber said:


> Hi! I don't know much about FMC, but I was just thinking about the way that you do it in competitions. They give you a simple scramble, but you are not allowed to use any parts of that scramble, right? (please correct me if I am wrong, like I said, I don't know much about FMC).
> It seems like it could be fairer if they either gave you a long scramble or a cube pre-scrambled because then the competitor would have more freedom of moves, and people wouldn't have to read the solutions and decide if it is fair enough. There could be organizers at different competitions who are stricter than others, which can make setting records complicated and debatable. What do you guys know about this? Is there something that I am missing?


You are correct that competitors aren't allowed to use the scramble, but in reality, I've never heard of a time when that has been an actual problem. The rule just there so you don't write the scramble backward and call it a solution. They "check" solutions that work but are suspicious by asking the competitor to explain their solution, and in that case, there is the problem of subjectivity, as seen by Vladislav Ushakov's 19 single that probably shouldn't have been counted, but that's another question. Using parts of the scramble is a real rule but it doesn't affect people's solves.


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## Underwatercuber (Jul 7, 2019)

CuberStache said:


> You are correct that competitors aren't allowed to use the scramble, but in reality, I've never heard of a time when that has been an actual problem. The rule just there so you don't write the scramble backward and call it a solution. They "check" solutions that work but are suspicious by asking the competitor to explain their solution, and in that case, there is the problem of subjectivity, as seen by Vladislav Ushakov's 19 single that probably shouldn't have been counted, but that's another question. Using parts of the scramble is a real rule but it doesn't affect people's solves.


It dnfd a wr single I believe so yes it has happened before lol. They added the R U F padding as a result of that I believe. 

Vladislavs solve is completely different than this lol


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## Cuberstache (Jul 7, 2019)

Underwatercuber said:


> It dnfd a wr single I believe


Really? When was that? And how many moves did they reverse?


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## Cale S (Jul 7, 2019)

CuberStache said:


> Really? When was that? And how many moves did they reverse?



In 2016 Linus Fresz got 24.00 WR mean, but the first 5 and last 6 moves of his first solution matched the inverse of the scramble sequence, so that attempt was changed to a DNF. While the solution was logical, it was decided that it was too similar to the inverse scramble to be valid. The change for FMC scrambles to have R' U' F at the beginning and end was then made to prevent incidents like this.


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## asacuber (Jul 7, 2019)

Although not really related, this is kinda cool


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## WoowyBaby (Jul 8, 2019)

*2x2 FMC?*

#1 Scramble: U' R' F R' F U' F2 R' F'

U2 R' U2 R // CO
F2 * R2 // AB3c
*= [F' U' F, L2] (8-3=5)
- *11* moves -

#2 Scramble: R' F2 U' R2 F' U R2 F2 R'

F R2 U R // CornerOrientation
U' R2 U // HalfTurnOnlyReduction
R2 F2 U2 // HTO Finish
- *10* moves -

#3 Scramble: R U' F2 U' F' R F' R' F' U'

* U2 F2 U' R2 // AllBut3Corners in 4
*= [R' D R, U'] (8-1=7)
- *11* moves -

#4 Scramble: F' U2 R' F R' F2 U2 R2 U'

U' F' // Block
U2 R F' // CO
U' R2 U2 // Finish
- *8* moves -

#5 Scramble: U' R U2 R' F2 R F' R' U2

U' R U2 // Layer
U R' U' R F2 R U2 R' U2 // cancelled CLL
- *11* moves -

#6 Scramble: R' F' U R' U R U' R2 U2

* R' F' // CO
U' // CO
*= [L U' L', F2] (Unable to cancel)
- *11* moves -

#7 Scramble: U' R F2 U' R2 U R' U R2 U'

R2 F // Two Pairs
R2 (R2) // Layer
(R' F2 R U2 R U' R' F) // CLL
Inverse cancels 1
- *11* moves -

#8 Scramble: R' U2 F U F2 U F U' R

R2 F2 R2 // 3/4 Layer
R' * F' R // AB3c in 5
*= [R' U' R, F'] (8-5=3)
- *8* moves -

#9 Scramble: F2 U F2 R' F' U2 F' U' R'

(F2 R') // 2-gen Redux
F U2 F' // CO
U F2 U F2 U' // Finish
- *10* moves -

#10 Scramble: U2 R F2 R2 F' R F2 R2 U

U R' * U2 R' // CO
U' R2 // 3c in 6
*= R U2 R U2 R' F2 R U2 R2 (9-3=6)
Results in: U' R U2 R' F2 R {U2 R2 U2} R' U' R2 (12)
Replace {---} with R2 U2 R2
Cancels 2 more moves
- *10* moves -

Mean of 10 is 10.1. So close to sub-10 mo10!
Just for reference, iirc optimal is 8.8 on average so I'm only 1.3 moves away. Feels good.

You guys should really try 2x2 FMC!
It's really quite fun, and if you do try, please do a mo10 because mo3 can be luck baised


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## asacuber (Jul 11, 2019)

wc2019 fmc results?


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## Underwatercuber (Jul 11, 2019)

asacuber said:


> wc2019 fmc results?


Results are accurate but I don’t know if rankings are

Firstian fushada got 25,27,24 and Chris chi got 24,27,25 both give 25.33 for first place. sebastiano got 25,24,28 = 25.67 for second. im not sure about other results but the best ones I have heard of besides that is tommy kiprillis (26,25,28) and Chong wen (25,29,25)got 26.33 means .

Edit: tied first means there is no second place. Also Jan got a 25.67 mean so that’s tied as well.


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## Loser (Jul 11, 2019)

Aj Kamal got 26.33 as well

Very strongly disagree with the organizers decision to not enter results in attempt by attempt


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## asacuber (Jul 11, 2019)

Congrats to the winners 
Scrambles and solutions would be appreciated.


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## ChrisCuber123 (Jul 11, 2019)

Here is my 25.33 winning mean from Worlds:
1. 24


Spoiler



R' U' F U' R2 F2 D L2 U' B2 R2 D R2 D B' L D2 F2 L2 F' R2 U2 B' U R' U' F

F L' R // EO
(D' B U' F U2 L2) // 222+mad pairs
(U' B' U') // big bloccs
U2 F' // F2L-1
F L2 F' L2 // different F2L-1
B D2 B' D' // L3C
Insertion canceled 4 for a 24

Pretty stupid solve, blocks just came together and the 4 cancel for 3c helped even more. My finish after "big bloccs" was optimal which is cool 



2. 27


Spoiler



R' U' F U2 R2 D' F2 D' L2 U' F2 L F' D' R' U' R2 F L2 B F R2 B2 R' U' F

(B D' R F) // EO
R' D2 R D2 // 222
B2 U' // 223 i think i cba to check
R2 U2 R B2 R' U' R' // 17 to 4c
Insertions canceled 4 and 2 for a 27

18 to 3e3c that gave 25:
(B D' R F) // EO
(L' B2 L) // sq
(U L2 D2 L2 U2 R) // prob 223
(L' * D L B2 D2) // 3e3c
At * there's a 6-5 edge insertion but i never checked this skeleton, cost me 24 25 first 2 solves oops

This solve hurts, the scramble seemed pretty nice but I couldn't find anything great and worse than average cancels on 4c didn't help either. Not checking a skeleton that gave 25 optimal kinda hurts too but it was 18 to 3e3c which probably wouldn't beat the 27 I found like 30 minutes in anyway.



3. 25


Spoiler



R' U' F R2 D2 L2 U L2 D F2 D2 R2 D2 R' D R D' U' F' D2 R' F' D R' U' F

(D) R' F2 U' // EO
(F' R L2 D2 L2 R) // 223
(L' F L F' R F' R') // 3e3c
(F' D2 F D2) // L3C
Insertion canceled 3 for 25 

Also had this 15 to 3e3c that gave 26 (optimal was nested 25):
(D) R' F2 U' // EO
(F' R2) // 223
(L F2 L') // 223
R F R' F L' F' L // 3e3c
8-3 for edges and 8-2 for corners
24, 27, 25 = 25.33 mean, 2nd best official mean

Was pretty nervous going into this attempt knowing that I had what was likely the second best mo2 after the first 2 solves, especially after completely bombing the FMC mean at Warm Up Canberra just 8 days earlier. Started the attempt with 15 to 3e3c about 15 minutes in and inserted right away for a 26 which I was already happy with. Found 20 to 3c with about 15-20 mins left and it canceled 3 for a 25.



Overall thoughts: Very solid mean, I've been in an FMC slump for the past couple of weeks and this was the perfect way to break out of it . Almost getting 24.67 is pretty dumb when my PR single is still 24 though (three 24s and like 7 25s in comp pls just give me sub 24).

This is definitely be the best cubing achievement of my life, especially considering how badly I was doing in practice leading up to this comp. Winning Worlds is so much better than winning US Nationals last year, even though my mean at Nats was better.


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## porkynator (Jul 11, 2019)

My solves at worlds (25.67 mean)

1.
Scramble: R' U' F U' R2 F2 D L2 U' B2 R2 D R2 D B' L D2 F2 L2 F' R2 U2 B' U R' U' F
Solution: R2 L2 F R' U2 R2 F L F' R F2 R U' B R2 B' L B R2 B' F' L' F U2 F2 (25)


Spoiler



R2 L2 F (F2) //321 (4/4)
R' U2 R' * F //Square + pair (4/8)
L F R //F2L-1 + square + pair (3/11)
U' + L F' L' F U2 //2c (6/17)

* = R' F L F' R F L' F' (2)
+ = B R2 B' L B R2 B' L' (6)

Nice solve, but the scramble was quite easy in my opinion.



2.
Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 D' F2 D' L2 U' F2 L F' D' R' U' R2 F L2 B F R2 B2 R' U' F
Solution: D2 R U' R' B2 L2 B' R' U F' U' R' D' R U2 R' D R2 U' R2 L2 D R' D' (24)


Spoiler



(B D' R F) //EO + 3 pairs (4/4)
D2 R U' //2 squares (3/7)
(R2 B2 R) //3c7e (3/10)

Skeleton: D2 R U' R' B2 R2 [1] F' R' D B' [2]

Insert M2 both at [1] and at [2] to leave 3e3c in 12

New skeleton: D2 R U' R' B2 L2 B' R' U F' * R2 L2

* = U + R U' R2 L2 D R' D' R2 L2 (6)
+ = U2 R' D' R U2 R' D R (6)

Very happy about this! The scramble wasn't so nice, in fact I was leading with 24.5 average after 2 solves. It's also nice to pull of good slice insertions officially 



3.
Scramble: R' U' F R2 D2 L2 U L2 D F2 D2 R2 D2 R' D R D' U' F' D2 R' F' D R' U' F
Solution: B2 U D2 B D' B' D2 F' D F D' L2 F2 B' U' B' U F' U' B L2 F' U F' R L B' R2 (28)


Spoiler



(R2 B L' R') //EO (4/4)
B2 U //Pseudo 222 (2/6)
(F U') //Square (2/8)
(F L2 U B F') //223 + square (5/13)
(L2 D F' D' F D2 B D B' D2) //3c (10/23)

Skeleton (on normal): B2 U D2 B D' B' D2 F' D F D' L2 F B' * U' L2 F' U F' R L B' R2

* = F U' B' U F' U' B U (5)

A standard backup solve, I really couldn't find anything.



Overall, I am a bit sad that I ruined my average with the last solve and possibly missed first place by one move, but of course I am happy to get another good result at a very big comp.


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## xyzzy (Jul 15, 2019)

My solutions from this week's weekly comp (26.00 PB mean):



Spoiler: scramble 1



Scramble:
R' U' F D R2 U' B2 D F2 D2 B2 U' R2 F2 L F' L U F L B' U2 R2 D R' U' F

Final solution (25):
D' L2 F2 L D' F2 L2 F' L' D2
L2 D' L' D L' D2 B' L B D
L' F2 D2 L U

The scramble starts with a full pseudo-222 already solved, or equivalently, a one-move 222 on inverse. The 25 was the first solution I found:
(U' L' D2) // p223 (3/3)
D' L2 F2 L D' F2 L2 F' L' D // pF2L (10/13)
(F2 L D' B' L' B D) // adjust + VHLS (7/20)
(D L D' L D L2 D') // Sune (7-2/25) 

The L' D2 places non-matching corner-edge and centre-edge pairs next to the one-move 222. It's not quite like usual pseudoblocks that are only one move off; this trick is usually not very useful and I probably abuse it too much. After switching I was just messing around with trying to get the blocks lined up, and ended up making a weird pseudo-F2L again. After switching again, I did VHLS to fix edge orientation and finish F2L (for real, not just pseudo), and it just so happened to end in a Sune with no AUF. Finding a 25 in five minutes really takes the pressure off the rest of the attempt.

Here's another solution that _doesn't_ make use of the one-move 222 on inverse (but it does use the free square):
(B D L2 B2 L U2) // three squares (6/6)
L U B' U2 D R2 D' // ab5c3e (7/13)
R2 F' @ R' F2 R F' R2 // fix edges; ab3c (7/20)
@ = [F, L B2 L'] // 2 cancel (6/26)

Honestly had no idea how this was going to turn out as I switched frantically and tried out different stuff. Note that the D R2 D' on the second line destroys one of the three squares. Tried doing insertions as a 5c3e skeleton, but I didn't find anything better. IF manages to find a 25 on the 5c3e skeleton.





Spoiler: scramble 2



Scramble:
R' U' F U2 F' L2 R2 F' U2 F2 L2 U2 L2 F2 R' B2 D' L F R2 D' B' F' D' R' U' F

Final solution (29):
D' F' U F2 U2 L2 U2 F2 U L2
U' F2 U2 D' L' D L' U' L' U2
B2 R' B U2 R L' D L' R

D' (R' L D' L) // two squares + pair (5/5)
F' U F2 U // three squares + two pairs (4/9)
(R' U2 B' R B2 U2 L) // F2L; ab4c3e (7/16)
(U L D' L D L2 U') // edges; ab4c (7/23)
(U L2 U2 F2 U L2 U' F2 U2 L2 U') // L4C (11-5/29) 

Another fancy freestyle blockbuilding start. Could've forced a 3c skeleton with a different alg but the best 3c insertion was only a 30. Fun fact: I've used this L4C alg in FMC before. IF manages to find a 28 on the 4c3e with three insertions.





Spoiler: scramble 3



Scramble:
R' U' F U2 B2 L' F2 R2 B2 L2 R' D2 B2 R' U' L' B' D' L' B' U' B' F' R' U' F

Final solution (24):
U D' L' R F D R' L' F2 L
F2 L2 D' L2 D' F2 R U' R' D
R U R' F2

U D' L' R F // EO on F-B axis (5/5)
D R' // 222 + pairs (2/7)
(F2 D' F2 D2) // 223 (4/11)
(D' L2 D) // EO on U-D axis (3-1/13)
(L2 F2 L' F2 L) // ab3c (5/18)

Skeleton: U D' L' R F D R' L' F2 L F2 L2 D' L2 D' F2 @ D F2
@ = [R U' R', D'] // 2 cancel (6/24)

I guess this sorta counts as domino redux? An example of the thing where I do EO and then blockbuild a 223 that isn't compatible with that EO direction, except that this time things just happened to work out really nicely. It looks like quite a few people (six, actually) went with sledging the pair to form a 222 in five moves. I tried that too, of course, but didn't find a good continuation.



Still bad at EO starts, and now that almost everyone good is moving towards domino redux, I'll really have to practise that more to even have a chance of keeping up.


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## White KB (Jul 15, 2019)

Just wondering, my FMC is pretty bad right now (last single was 69 moves) and I don't know how to improve. Any tips on getting sub-40, or even sub-35? The new FMC WRs are killing my unofficial kinchranks score, and to improve, I need to get a <35 move single or a <47.33 mo3. If you have any tips (or know what NISS is and/or how to use it) that would be awesome. I want to do it without memorizing any Algs tho


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## xyzzy (Jul 15, 2019)

White KB said:


> Just wondering, my FMC is pretty bad right now (last single was 69 moves) and I don't know how to improve. Any tips on getting sub-40, or even sub-35? The new FMC WRs are killing my unofficial kinchranks score, and to improve, I need to get a <35 move single or a <47.33 mo3. If you have any tips (or know what NISS is and/or how to use it) that would be awesome. I want to do it without memorizing any Algs tho


Just read the FMC tutorial. J Perm also has a few videos on some FMC techniques; I haven't watched those yet, but they're probably good if you don't like reading through a PDF.

Other than that, do a dozen solves or something. What's your current FMC practice routine?


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## White KB (Jul 15, 2019)

I don't do it all that often. I've probably had 7 results, but what I do in my routine is I write the scramble and make some space for it in a notebook I have only for FMC. Then I set a timer for 1 hour on my watch and start. I usually use 3 cubes (it's competition legal and I get the scramble right when I use more than one) and I scramble 2 of them then reverse scramble on one to see I've got the scramble right. Then I usually aim for a 2x2x2 then 2x2x3 block, and then I try doing EO (EO is efficient but usually takes me 10-20 minutes) then I do the rest, which is where most of my move count comes from. I try my best but I usually get 55-70 moves.


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## xyzzy (Jul 16, 2019)

White KB said:


> I usually aim for a 2x2x2 then 2x2x3 block, and then I try doing EO (EO is efficient but usually takes me 10-20 minutes) then I do the rest, which is where most of my move count comes from. I try my best but I usually get 55-70 moves.


My usual advice for FMC newbies is literally "just use Petrus" but it seems like you're already doing that. Do EO _faster_. 10 minutes is way too long. Lars Petrus's website has an exhaustive list of all the possible EO cases. It might seem like a lot of cases to learn, but the 2-flips are all just setting up to a 3-move trigger, while most of the 4-flips are just doing two triggers while trying to cancel one move. (The 6-flips are bad, but that's just how it is. Solve your blocks in a different way to avoid 6-flips. Usually you can adjust the last move of 2×2×3 to get 4-flip instead of 6-flip, or 2-flip instead of 4-flip.)

As a rough guide, you should have 2×2×2 done within 7 moves, 2×2×3 within 14 moves, EO within 19 moves, and the skeleton (leaving 2 to 5 corners) within 30 moves. (These numbers should go lower as you get better at blockbuilding, of course.)


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## theos (Jul 16, 2019)

My solves at Worlds - 15th place with new AfR single (25) and AfR mean (28.00).



Spoiler: #1: 27 moves



Scramble: R' U' F U' R2 F2 D L2 U' B2 R2 D R2 D B' L D2 F2 L2 F' R2 U2 B' U R' U' F 

EO: F L' R [3/3]
2x2x2: U F2 U [3/6]
2x2x3: B' D2 B' D B @ D2 R2 [7/13]
F2L-1: (D2 B D2 B' D') [5/18]
AB3C: (B2 D' B D B) [5/23]
Insert corners at @: B' U2 B D2 B' U2 B D2 [4/27]

Solution: F L' R U F2 U B' D2 B' D U2 B D2 B' U2 B R2 B' D' B' D B2 D B D2 B' D2 (27 moves)





Spoiler: #2: 25 moves



Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 D' F2 D' L2 U' F2 L F' D' R' U' R2 F L2 B F R2 B2 R' U' F 

EO: (B D' R F) [4/4]
2x2x2: (L' D L) D2 [4/8]
2x2x3: R' @ U' R B2 (B2) [5/13]
F2L-1: R2 U' # R' U' [4/17]
AB4C: U' R2 U' [2/19]
Insert corners at @: R D' R' U' R D R' U [1/20]
Insert corners at #: U L U' R U L' U' R' [5/25]

Solution: D R' U' R D B2 R2 L U' R U L' U' R2 U2 R2 U' B2 L' D' L F' R' D B' (25 moves)

This wasn't the most promising skeleton that I did insertions for, but obviously cancelling 10 moves across 2 insertions catapulted this one up.





Spoiler: #3: 32 moves



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D2 L2 U L2 D F2 D2 R2 D2 R' D R D' U' F' D2 R' F' D R' U' F

2x2x2: R D F D' L' (L') [6/6]
2x2x3: (B' R2 @ U2) [3/9]
EO: (L' F D' F' L) [5/14]
AB5C: R2 B' R' B' R2 # B2 [6/20]
Insert corners at @: (R2 B' L2 B R2 B' L2 B) [5/25]
Insert corners at #: R F L2 F' R' F L2 F' [7/32]

Solution: R D F D' L' R2 B' R' B' R' F L2 F' R' F L2 F' B2 L' F D F' L U2 B' L2 B R2 B' L2 B2 L (32 moves)

Not a great finishing solve but it is about par for me and I was really relieved that it was good enough to get the AfR mean.


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## White KB (Jul 16, 2019)

xyzzy said:


> My usual advice for FMC newbies is literally "just use Petrus" but it seems like you're already doing that. Do EO _faster_. 10 minutes is way too long. Lars Petrus's website has an exhaustive list of all the possible EO cases. It might seem like a lot of cases to learn, but the 2-flips are all just setting up to a 3-move trigger, while most of the 4-flips are just doing two triggers while trying to cancel one move. (The 6-flips are bad, but that's just how it is. Solve your blocks in a different way to avoid 6-flips. Usually you can adjust the last move of 2×2×3 to get 4-flip instead of 6-flip, or 2-flip instead of 4-flip.)
> 
> As a rough guide, you should have 2×2×2 done within 7 moves, 2×2×3 within 14 moves, EO within 19 moves, and the skeleton (leaving 2 to 5 corners) within 30 moves. (These numbers should go lower as you get better at blockbuilding, of course.)



It's the next day, and I got 48 moves for my first solve after learning NISS and when I did EO it took me about 1 or 2 minutes to do. If you would like to critique the solve it would be much accepted. Let me know your thoughts on it:


Spoiler: 48 Moves



Scramble: R' D F D' L2 R2 B F L' B F' D B2 U L' F2 D B F' D R B' L' F' D
Reverse Scramble: D' F L B R' D' F B' D' F2 L U' B2 D' F B' L F' B' R2 L2 D F' D' R
Solution:
B' D2 B D B' D2 B D // 12/12 //Found using NISS (Essentially OLL)
F D F' D' F' R F2 D' F' D' F D F' R' // 14/26 //Found using NISS (Essentially a T Perm)

B D B' D R' B' R // 7/33
U2 L D L' D' F' D F2 D' U' F2 D'// 12/45
U2 R2 U2 // 3/48

It's all weird because I did a reverse scramble first, and that was the most efficient way.


Any adjustments?
If so please reply


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## xyzzy (Jul 16, 2019)

White KB said:


> It's the next day, and I got 48 moves for my first solve after learning NISS and when I did EO it took me about 1 or 2 minutes to do. If you would like to critique the solve it would be much accepted. Let me know your thoughts on it:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 48 Moves
> ...





Spoiler



Please annotate each step so I don't have to guess what you're trying to do. :v Bracketed moves are done on inverse. (The bolded moves were wrongly written in your post and have been corrected here.)

(U2 R2 U2) // square (3/3)
(D F2 U D F2 D' F D L D' L' U2) // 223 (12/15)
(R' B R) // EO (3/18)
(D' B *D* B') // F2L-1 (4/22)
B' D2 B D *B' D B D B' D2 B* // OLS (11/33)
D F D F' D' F' R F2 D' F' D' F D F' R' // T perm (15/48)

The 223 is not great, considering that there's a free pair to exploit. Consider something like:
(U2 R2 U2) // pseudo222 (3/3)
(R' D F2) // pseudo223 (3/6)
U // fix pseudoblock (1/7)

This does leave six bad edges, which is unfortunate, but at least we can cancel into EO (which happens to also solve a square here—you can get unlucky in an early part of the solution and still get lucky later on).
U (U2 R2 U2 R' D F2) // 223 with six bad edges (7/7)
(F D' F2 B R F B') // EO + square (7-1/13)
(D2 R D R' D R D') // solve edges; leave four corners (7/20)

Going back to your solution:
(U2 R2 U2) // square (3/3)
(D F2 U D F2 *D' F D L D' L'* U2) // 223 (12/15)
The bolded moves can be replaced by D2 F L D L', which saves a move. (It also happens to cause an EO skip, but this was unintentional.) The first bolded D' move moves the green-orange edge out of the way so that you can insert green-red, but it's left in a position where you'll need four moves to insert it. By using D2 instead, it's left in a position that takes only three moves to insert.

… // 223
(R' B R) // EO (3/18)
(D' B D B') // F2L-1 (4/22)
Fairly obvious stuff here.

… // F2L-1
B' D2 B D B' D B D B' D2 B // OLS (11/33)
D F D F' D' F' R F2 D' F' D' F D F' R' // T perm (15/48)
Getting an OLL skip here is nice, but hoping for OLL skips isn't exactly a reliable strategy and also most PLLs aren't short enough to be useful in FMC. T perm is one of the few exceptions, and you should definitely learn the optimal T perm algs. (You did say you didn't want to learn algs, but this one is really easy to remember!)

… // OLS
L2 U B2 U' L2 F2 U' R2 U F2 // optimal T perm (10/43)

An alternative to finishing F2L:
… // F2L-1
(B' D' B D B' D B D2) // solve edges; leave five corners (8-1/29)

Start learning how to do insertions asap. Being able to solve 4-5 corners in 11-ish moves is usually far better than spending 20+ moves on doing OLL and PLL. (Insertions aren't essential per se; roughly a third of my FMC attempts have no insertions at all. I do, however, know enough ZBLL and related stuff that I can get away with not doing insertions and still average 35 moves. This obviously isn't an option if you have an aversion to learning hundreds of algs.)


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## schapel (Jul 17, 2019)

my stupid 24 from worlds



Spoiler: WC2019 #2



Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 D' F2 D' L2 U' F2 L F' D' R' U' R2 F L2 B F R2 B2 R' U' F 

(B) * U F' // EO (3/3)
L' U2 L' U' L2 // 2 squares (5/8)
U' R' // 1x2x3 (2/10)
B2 U' // 2x2x3 (2/12)
L' D // AB5C (2/14)

* = B' D2 B U B' & D2 B U' (8-2/20)
& = B' U2 B D2 B' U2 B D2 (8-4/24)

Solution: B' D2 B U B2 U2 B D2 B' U2 B2 F' L' U2 L' U' L2 U' R' B2 U' L' D B' (24)


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## IQubic (Jul 18, 2019)

Here's a dumb and silly FMC I did at home using a random tnoodle scramble:
It's a 34 done with NISS, I didn't have time to deal with insertions, so I just used a move optimal T-Perm that left me with no AUF to finish the solve. I still consider myself a medium level FMCer, so I'd like to know if anyone else has a way to either improve my solution, or come up with a better solution of their own. I'm really looking to improve my skills here.


Spoiler



Scramble:
R' U' F R2 F L2 U' R2 U R2 U' F2 R2 F2 L2 D' R' F' L R D2 R2 D2 R' U' F

Start on inverse scramble: F' D U2 L // 2x2x2 (4/4)
Switch to Normal: B' R U' F R' F' R // 2x2x3 (7/11)
Switch to Inverse: U' L' B L U B // F2L-1 (6/17)
Switch to Normal: L2 D L' U' L D' L2 // Winter Variation (7/24)
B2 D L2 D' B2 R2 D' F2 D R2 // PLL (10/34)

Final Solution
B' R U' F R' F' R L2 D L' U' L D' L2 B2 D L2 D' B2 R2 D' F2 D R2 B' U' L' B' L U L' U2 D' F


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## DGraciaRubik (Jul 18, 2019)

I'm not the greatest FMC solver but I found an interesting skeleton which led me to my first sub-30. Could've been better but since I did this without stickers to find insertions I had to do L5C "by hand" which wasn't too hard due to the skeleton I found. Best Insertion Finder could get was 25 and I got a 29 so not too bad I guess.



Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F L D' B R2 F B2 R2 B L B' U2 R2 D2 F D2 F2 R2 B U2 D2 R' U' F

U F’ B2 R’ B // EO+preserving some pairs (5/5)
F2 R D’ U’ R’ U R U R // All but L5C. Preety straight forward. (9/14)
F’ D’ F U F’ D F // Corner comm 1 (7/21)
R’ D R U R’ D’ R U’ // Corner comm 2 (8/29)


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## WoowyBaby (Jul 22, 2019)

IQubic said:


> Here's a dumb and silly FMC I did at home using a random tnoodle scramble:
> It's a 34 done with NISS, I didn't have time to deal with insertions, so I just used a move optimal T-Perm that left me with no AUF to finish the solve. I still consider myself a medium level FMCer, so I'd like to know if anyone else has a way to either improve my solution, or come up with a better solution of their own. I'm really looking to improve my skills here.
> 
> 
> ...



34 moves is a pretty nice result, and its good that you know how to use NISS.

A way I could improve it is to do things differently after F2L-1. Generally you want to solve most of the pieces and do insertions, because insertions can be pretty powerful most times.
But sometimes you get an easy linear solve, it just depends. Here's what I found for F2L-1 continuation:

Setup- B' U' L' B' L U L' U2 D' F R' U' F R2 F L2 U' R2 U R2 U' F2 R2 F2 L2 D' R' F' L R D2 R2 D2 R' U' F B' R U' F R' F' R

(17 moves to F2L-1)
L U L' U' L U' L' // F2L (6/23)
L' U2 L U L' U L // Sune (7/30)

Solution - B' R U' F R' F' R L U L' U' L U' L2 U2 L U L' U L B' U' L' B' L U L' U2 D' F
30 moves

At first I tried L U' L' to get me to a 2tc + 2e2e skeleton, but I realized I couldn’t easily get 34 moves or less with that kind of insertions.

I tried a couple other skeletons, but I still couldn’t find sub-30. I’m sure there is one out there to get this sub-30 I just didn’t find it.

If I used the same WV, but doing a 2c2e insertion instead of finishing with a T-perm, it surprisingly isn't better! I even checked Insertion Finder. So in this rare case, slapping an alg at the end is actually the optimal insertion!

Doing a completely different solution I can find this-
Scramble: R' U' F R2 F L2 U' R2 U R2 U' F2 R2 F2 L2 D' R' F' L R D2 R2 D2 R' U' F

B U' R' L' // EO (4/4)
D' B' U D2 F // DR (5/9)
(R2 L2 D') // HTOR (3/12)
(L2 U2 L2 U2) // AB2e2e (4/16)
16 to 2e2e

Skeleton- B U' R' L' D' B' U D2 F * U2 L2 U2 L2 D L2 R2
*= F2 R2 F2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 (8-3=5/21)

Solution- B U' R' L' D' B' U D2 F' [R2 F2 U2 R2 F2 R2 L2] U2 L2 D L2 R2 (21)
Replace [-------] with L2 B2 D2 R2 B2, overall 2 moves shorter.

Final Solution- B U' R' L' D' B' U D2 F' L2 B2 D2 R2 B2 U2 L2 D L2 R2 (19 moves!!)

Nineteen moves. Wow. Personal Best Single. I was not expecting that. Just wow.

Edit: I checked IF and I got the same optimal solution as it but with a suboptimal insertion, by replacing moves at the end. Interesting.

Hope that’s what you’re asking for, and GL with your FMC journey!


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## Cale S (Jul 24, 2019)

19 tied pb single with a really cool solution



Spoiler



R' U' F R' B' R' D2 L' D' R U' D' F' D2 L2 F U2 R2 L2 F U2 D2 B R' U' F

(L' B' U' D' F') // EO
R' L (D2 L' U' L) // Domino (11)
(F2 D' F2) // square
(U' L R B2 L R') // 16 to 3c + 2e2e

B2 R' L' U @ F2 D F2 L' U L D2 F D U B L
@ = U' B2 U F2 U' B2 U F2 // 20 to 2e2e

B2 R' L' B2 U F2 U' B2 @ U D F2 L' U L D2 F D U B L
@ = F2 B2 D' U R2 L2 U' D // 23 to nothing

B2 R' L' B2 U ^ F2 U' F2 @ U' D R2 L2 U2 F2 L' U L D2 F D U B L
@ = E
^ = E'

Solution: B2 R' L' B2 D R2 U' L2 U2 F2 L' U L D2 F D U B L (19)


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## Cuberstache (Jul 24, 2019)

I see a lot of people doing DR solves now and I'm interested in learning it. I understand in general the steps but how to do it confuses me. I can do EO just fine but I can't figure out the domino reduction step. Can anyone point me to somewhere I can learn?


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## Fok96 (Jul 24, 2019)

CuberStache said:


> I see a lot of people doing DR solves now and I'm interested in learning it. I understand in general the steps but how to do it confuses me. I can do EO just fine but I can't figure out the domino reduction step. Can anyone point me to somewhere I can learn?




I'm currently working on a full guide about DR: I still do not have a realese date, but it's coming, trust me


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## trangium (Jul 25, 2019)

random fmc attempt

Scramble: R' U' F B' D2 R' L F B' U R F2 U2 F L2 F' D2 L2 B2 D2 R2 B U' R' U' F
Solution: R2 D' L R2 U' D2 L' D' R L' F L2 F' R' U D L B' L' B2 D2 B D R' U2 B' (26 HTM)

R2 D' // 2x2x1 (2/2)
L // pseudo-2x2x1 (1/3)
(B) // correct pseudoness (1/4)
R2 // yet another pseudo-2x2x1 (1/5)
(U2 R D' B2) // align everything (4/9)
U' D2 L D' L' U // F2L-1 (6/15)
D L B' L' B2 D2 B' // AB3E, cancels 1 move with the inverse (6/21)

Skeleton: R2 D' L R2 U' D2 L D' ^ L' U D L B' L' B2 D2 B D R' U2 B' (21)
^ = D L2 D' R L' F L2 F' R' L (10-5/26)


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## CarterK (Jul 25, 2019)

trangium said:


> random fmc attempt
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F B' D2 R' L F B' U R F2 U2 F L2 F' D2 L2 B2 D2 R2 B U' R' U' F
> Solution: R2 D' L R2 U' D2 L' D' R L' F L2 F' R' U D L B' L' B2 D2 B D R' U2 B' (26 HTM)
> ...



Me trying random stuff

R2 D' L R2 // pseudo stuff (you did this just in different steps)
(B U2 R D' B2) // align
(U' D' L D' L' F' D F U D') //3e3c in 19 (this is normally pretty bad but lets see what we can get

R2 & D' L R2 $U' D F' D' F* L D L' U ^D B2 D R' U2 B'
*: F' D F U F' D' F U' (8-8) 3e4c (this can be solved with a sexy)
^: U' L D' L U L D L' (10-8) 3e4c in 17 (this can't)
$: R2 D F' D' F R2 F' D F D' (10-10) 3e6c
&: R2 D' L D R2 D' L' D (8-8) 3e4c again lol

D' L D R2 F' D' F R2 L D L' D B2 & D R' U2 B'
&: B2 D' L D B2 D' L' D (8-8) 4e5c

Honestly idk what I'm even doing at this point, @Cale S Wanna try?


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## asacuber (Jul 25, 2019)

CarterK said:


> Me trying random stuff
> 
> R2 D' L R2 // pseudo stuff (you did this just in different steps)
> (B U2 R D' B2) // align
> ...



ftfy, have fun


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## WoowyBaby (Jul 25, 2019)

CarterK said:


> Me trying random stuff
> 
> R2 D' L R2 // pseudo stuff (you did this just in different steps)
> (B U2 R D' B2) // align
> ...


Yeah, 19 to 3e3c isn’t usually good, but also, 4e5c in 17 isn’t better 

I’d say that skeleton has no hope even after those complete cancellation insertion things, and IF also says 28 is the best possible for that.

I tried that scramble for about 3 minutes and I found this-

R2 D' // SQ
L F2 U F // EO
R // 222
L' B2 L2 U L B2 // F2L-1
EOF2L-1 in 13 moves

With that you can get a 14 to 3e5c, or a 16 to 3e4c, or a 17 to 5c, or a 18 to 3e3c, or a 22 to 4c, or a 25 to 3c.

I thought 13 moves to eoF2L-1 was good, but even with IF the best is 27.


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## CarterK (Jul 25, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Yeah, 19 to 3e3c isn’t usually good, but also, 4e5c in 17 isn’t better
> 
> I’d say that skeleton has no hope even after those complete cancellation insertion things, and indeed IF says 28 is the best possible.
> 
> ...


Yeah Ik it’s not great, but I was curious to see if I could get anything good on it. Best IF gave for any of those was 27


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## hopelessdove (Jul 25, 2019)

Here's my first attempt with slice insertions:

Scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 R2 U' L2 F2 D2 B2 U F2 U' B' D B L' B L2 D U F2 R' U' F


Spoiler



R' B' // square (2/2)
(B' D R F' R2 B' U2 L U R' U' R' F' R) // 3c2e2e (14/16)

Skeleton: R' B' R' F R ! U R U' L' U2 + B R2 F R' D' * B
! = R D2 R' U R D2 R' U' // 2e2e (8-5/19)
* = S2 // 2e2e4x (2-1/20)
+ = U2 R D S2 D' R' U2 // solved (8-2/26)

Solution: R' B' R' F R2 D2 R' U R D2 U' L' R D Fw2 F2 D' R' U2 B R2 F R' D' F2 B' (26)


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## asacuber (Jul 26, 2019)

Question: What stuff should i look out for after doing EO? I tend to miss good EO starts or find good continuations which is why 80-85% of my solves are blockbulding


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## guysensei1 (Jul 26, 2019)

I did a DR-only ao12, it was 25.7

1)R' U' F L' B' F2 D2 B2 L2 U F2 L2 U' L2 D L' D L' R' U R2 D' R' U' F

25


Spoiler



B' R' D//EO (3/3)
F2 L2 B L (B L2 B2 L B' L')//DR (10/13)
(B U2 F')//sq+123 (3/16)
(U2 R2)//another sq (2/18)
(D2 F' D2 F D2)//3e (5/23)
(D2 F' D2 R2 U2 B' U2 R2)//lol (8-6/25)
Final: B' R' D F2 L2 B L R2 U2 B U2 R2 F D2 R2 U2 F U2 B' L B L' B2 L2 B' (25)



2)R' U' F B' U' R2 B2 U' F2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 U2 F' D2 L' F' U' B' R2 U F2 R' U' F

24


Spoiler



(B' F U' F)//EO (4/4)
L' (U2 D2 R')//DR+2sq wtf (4/8)
(D' B2)//222 (2/10)
(U R2 U2 F2)//3e3c (4/14)
L' F2 U2 R2 U' * B2 D R D2 U2 F' U F' B
*=U R2 U' R2 D ** R2 D' R2//nice block comm (8-5/17)
**=D B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 (8-1/24)
Final: L' F2 U R2 D2 B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 R2 D' R2 B2 D R D2 U2 F' U F' B (24)



3)R' U' F R' B' D F2 L2 U' D2 L D' F2 U2 B' R2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B L2 F R' U' F

26


Spoiler



D B L R U'//EO (5/5)
R' F2 D2 ** F U2 F R//DR (7/12)
B' L2//sq (2/14)
R2 * F B L2 F L2//6e (6/20)
*=R2 B2 R2 F B D2 F' B' (8-6/22)
**=D2 F2 D2 L2 D2 F2 D2 L2 (8-4/26)
Final: D B L R U' R' D2 L2 D2 F2 D2 L2 F U2 F R B' L2 B2 R2 F B D2 L2 F L2 (26)



4)R' U' F B U' L2 D2 U2 B2 R2 F2 L B2 L F2 L' R' B L2 F2 U' F D2 B R' U' F

26


Spoiler



(R' L) B U2 L//EO (5/5)
(U' F2 D U F2 D F)//DR (7/12)
(D L2)//2 sq (2/14)
D F2 D R2//223 (4/18)
U B2 U' B2//3c (4/22)
B2 D F2 D' B2 D F2 D'//solved (8-2/28)
B U2 L D F2 D R2 U B2 * U' D F2 D' ** B2 D *** F2 D' L2 D' **** F' D' F2 U' D' F2 U L' R
*=U Uw' (2-4/26)
**=D Dw' (2-2/26)
****=D' Dw (2-2/26)
****=D Dw' (2-2/26)
Final: B U2 L D F2 D R2 U B2 L2 U' B2 U L2 D' B2 U' F' D' F2 U' D' F2 U L' R (26)



5)R' U' F R2 D' L2 D B2 D B2 R2 F2 U R2 U R' F' U' F2 L2 D' B' U2 L R' U' F

26


Spoiler



(L2 F) R' F'//EO (4/4)
(U' D' L B2 D2 R' D R)//DR (8/12)
(F2)//psdiamond (1/13)
(B2 U R2 U' B2 U' D)//4c (7/20)
R' F' D' U B2 U * R2 U' B2 F2 R' D' R D2 B2 L' D U F' L2
*=F2 U' L2 D R2 B2 D' L2 U R2 (10-4/26)
Final: R' F' D' U B2 U F2 U' L2 D R2 B2 D' L2 B2 F2 R' D' R D2 B2 L' D U F' L2 (26)



6)R' U' F B' L U' B' R2 D2 B U' R F2 R' D2 L' U2 B2 R F2 R' U' F

25


Spoiler



(F) R' L F//EO (4/4)
D' U R (U F2 D L' D' L')//DR (9/13)
(D U' R2 U' L2)//223 (5/18)
(D R2 D R2 D')//3 pairs (5/23)
R' L F D' U R D * R2 D' R2 D' L2 U R2 U D' L D L D' F2 U' F'
*=U R2 D' R2 D R2 U' R2 (8-2/29)
R' L F D' U R D U *** R2 D' R2 D R2 U' D' ** R2 D' L2 U **** R2 U D' * L D L D' F2 U' F'
*=D Dw' (2-4/27)
**=D Dw' (2-3/26)
***=D Dw' (2-3/25)
****=U' Uw (2-2/25)
Final: R' L F D' U R D2 B2 D' B2 D B2 U2 L2 D' R2 D F2 L D L D' F2 U' F' (25)



7)R' U' F R F2 R F L U F D F' R2 D L2 D' B2 R2 U2 B2 D' R2 D R' U' F

29


Spoiler



@ L2 F' U L//EO (4/4)
(B2 L2 R2 F' D2 B D)//DR (7/11)
(R2 B2 D2 U2 L2 B F2)//2e2c (7/18)
@=U' L' B' U B L F' L F L2 U L (12-1/29)
Final: U' L' B' U B L F' L F L2 U L' F' U L F2 B' L2 U2 D2 B2 R2 D' B' D2 F R2 L2 B2 (29)



8)R' U' F L D' F2 L2 D' R2 D2 L2 F2 U R2 U2 F' U L' R2 U2 F L B D' R' U' F

24


Spoiler



(B2 D' B)//EO (3/3)
(U R' U2 L')//DR (4/7)
(F2 L2 F2)//sq (3/10)
D2//222 (1/11)
U R2 U//3c5e (3/14)
R2 F2 L2 B2 L2 B2//3e3c (6-4/16)
** D2 U R2 U R2 F2 L2 B2 F2 * L U2 R *** U' B' D B2
*=F2 Fw2 (2-4/14)
**=F2 Fw2 (2/16)
***=L' U2 L' D' R B2 R' D L2 (9/25)
F2 B2 U2 D L2 D L2 F2 R2 L * U2 R L' U2 L' ** D' R B2 R' D L2 U' B' D B2
*=L' Lw (2-3/24)
**=L Lw' (2-2/24)
Final: F2 B2 U2 D L2 D L2 F2 R' B2 R L' B2 R' D' R B2 R' D L2 U' B' D B2 (24)

Found a 23 after 1 hour:
(B2 D' B)//EO (3/3)
(U L2 R D2 L)//DR (5/8)
(D F2)//sq (2/10)
(D2 B2)//ps222 (2/12)
(U2 F2 U F2 U' D F2)//3c (7/19)
(F2 U B2 U' F2 U B2 U')//solved (7-4/23)



9)R' U' F L2 D2 B U2 F L2 B2 F2 U2 L2 F' L2 D L U R F D' B' F2 D R' U' F

28


Spoiler



(B' L) L2 U' R'//EO (5/5)
U2 B' (F2 D2 B D' B)//DR (7/12)
F2 * L2 D L2//ps223 (4/16)
U R2 D//3e3c (3/19)
*=F2 ** L2 D2 R2 B2 R2 D2 L2 (8-5/22)
**=B2 L F L' B2 L F' L' (8-2/28)
Final: L2 U' R' U2 B L F L' B2 L F' L D2 R2 B2 R2 D' L2 U R2 D B' D B' D2 F2 L' B (28)



10)R' U' F D' R' L' U' F R B R2 B2 L2 F2 R2 U' L2 U' F2 R2 L D R' U' F

27


Spoiler



L2 F (D L F')//EO (5/5)
U' F2 U2 R2 U' L'//DR (6/11)
(R2 B2)//3c8e (2/13)
(D R2 L2 U' R2 L2)//3e3c (6-1/18)
L2 F U' F2 U2 R2 U' L R2 U L2 R2 ** D' * B2 R2 F L' D'
*=D2 F2 L2 F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 (8-5/21)
**=R2 F2 U' R2 U R2 F2 D R2 D' (10-4/27)
Final: L2 F U' F2 U2 R2 U' L R2 U L2 F2 U' R2 U R2 F2 D R2 F2 L2 F2 D2 B2 F L' D' (27)



11)R' U' F L' R2 B2 D' B2 U' F2 U R2 F2 D2 B' D F2 U2 L' R' B R2 B R' U' F

23


Spoiler



R' L U D'//EOsq (4/4)
R2 F R L2 F' R F//DR+wth (7/11)
(B2 R' D2 R D2 R' D2 R)//to 2e2c (8/19)
(R' D2 R F2 U2 R B2 R' U2 L F2)//lol (11-7/23)
Final: R' L U D' R2 F R L2 F' R F' L' U2 R B2 R' U2 F2 D2 R' D2 R B2 (23)



12)R' U' F U' L2 R2 F R2 B' D2 F D2 B' U2 L2 F2 D' R' F2 U' L' B' L F R' U' F

26


Spoiler



(L D' F B)//EO (4/4)
U' * D' R B2 R' F2 R'//DR (7/11)
D' F2//2 square (2/13)
(U R2 U2 L2)//223 (4/17)
(D2 B2 D B2)//3c (4/21)
*=L D' R' D L' D' R D (8-3/26)
Final: U' L D' R' D L' D' R2 B2 R' F2 R' D' F2 B2 D' B2 D2 L2 U2 R2 U' B' F' D L' (26)


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## asacuber (Jul 26, 2019)

guysensei1 said:


> I did a DR-only ao12, it was 25.7
> 
> 1)R' U' F L' B' F2 D2 B2 L2 U F2 L2 U' L2 D L' D L' R' U R2 D' R' U' F
> 
> ...



cool! Whenever you switch while doing DR do you just try to orient as many pieces as possible and then switch(or finish)?


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## guysensei1 (Jul 26, 2019)

asacuber said:


> cool! Whenever you switch while doing DR do you just try to orient as many pieces as possible and then switch(or finish)?


I do DR in 3 main steps

1)EO
2)reduce to 4e4c, 2e3c, or 2e4c
3) setup to R, R U R'/R U' R', R U2 R', respectively

I switch between steps 1 and 2, and steps 2 and 3 mainly to try to get a better case if the DR setup looks bad


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## WoowyBaby (Jul 27, 2019)

@guysensei1 Wow, you and Cale S have gotten very nice pure domino results, maybe what porkynator said was true (on pg. 245), domino being viable as a method itself. Maybe I'll try a ao12 of pure domino and see how it goes.

-----

I just got an insane solve today and I wanted to share it.
I did it in 3x3 Example Solve thread, so if you want to see the full post click here.

Since I wasn’t trying for purely fewest moves, I wanted it to just be a simple linear solution for the example solve thread, so this was way more unexpected than if I got this somewhere else.

Scramble: R2 D2 L2 R2 F2 L2 U' F2 U' R2 U B' D' L' D' F L' D B2 R F2


Spoiler: Original Solution



First Solution:
L' D2 B R B' // Two Squares (5)
U' F // Edge Orientation (2)
R2 D2 R' D2 R D' F2 // Combine Blocks (7)
L' U L' U' L2 U L2 U // Finish (8)
22 HTM

This is an amazing solve and was my craziest solve until I found a way to save 2 moves off just a couple minutes later.
The first 13 moves of the second solution is the same as this.


Final Solution:
L' D2 B R B'
U' F
R2 D2 R' D2 R D'
U F2 D'
L' U L' D
20 moves.

Totally linear 20. It was just so unexpected because I wasn't even doing a serious FMC attempt.
I still can't get over this even though it was hours ago. I was shocked when I found it. It is the most incredible solve I've done.


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## porkynator (Jul 27, 2019)

This is probably one of my craziest solves. The final result is good (25), but I was expecting something better given that wonderful start.
Ongoing comp: german forum, scramble #2
Scramble: R' U' F U R2 D R2 B2 D' B2 L' D2 L2 R D U L2 F' U2 B L' B R' U' F


Spoiler



U' B' U B //CO, and corners are just 2 moves from solved (4/4)
(D2 L F' R' L D) //DR (6/10)
(R L') //3e2e2e (2/12)

Skeleton 1: U' B' U B * R' L D' L' R F L' D2
* = B2 L2 B2 R2 F2 R2 //2e2e (6-2/16)

Here I have a nice 2e2e, or so it seems. The new insertion finder gives 24 inserting a 1-move setup to an 8-move 2e2e case with 1 cancellation (and it gives 22 starting from Skeleton 1 without my first insertion, inserting first an 8-move 2e2e that cancels 4 and then a 6-0 3-cycle). I couldn't find any good insertion, but I saw that I could replace the last 7 moves with D' R L' F D2 to get a 5e case:

Skeleton 2: U' B' U B' * L2 B2 R2 + F2 R D' R L' F D2
* = E'
+ = [R' B' D' B: E] blah

Not very satisfied with this last insertion, I was hoping for something 1 or 2 moves better. However with this last skeleton I did beat the new insertion finder!

Solution: U' B' U B' U' D F2 L2 B L' D' L U D' B' D B R F2 R D' R L' F D2 (25)

I have also found this skeleton:
U' B' U B L' D2 //9e in 6 moves!

But I didn't try to insert. IF gives 21, but I couldn't find better than 25.[/spoiler[


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## guysensei1 (Jul 30, 2019)

Just got my PB ao12 of 24.50 and all using Domino. The first 9 solves are from another DR-only session and the last 3 are from the ongoing weekly facebook comp

DR is OP.

1)R' U' F U' B2 D' F2 R2 B2 U' L2 D' F2 L' U L2 R' F' L D2 U' R2 U2 F R' U' F

24


Spoiler



(B F2 U' R')//EO (4/4)
(U' B') D' U' B2 D' B'//DR (7/11)
(D R2 B2 U' B2 U2)//6e (6/17)

D' U' B2 D' B' U2 B2 U B2 * R2 D' ** B U R U F2 B'

*=B2 U2 B2 D2 F2 D2 (6-3/20)
**=L2 F' B D2 F B' (6-2/24)

Final: D' U' B2 D' B' U2 B2 U' B2 D2 F2 D2 R2 D' L2 F' B D2 F U R U F2 B' (24)



2)R' U' F L2 U2 B2 R2 B U2 B' F2 R2 U2 L2 D' F' D2 L D R2 F2 U' B2 D R' U' F

21


Spoiler



(R2 F' R')//EO (3/3)
(F2 U2 * D' B D' B')//DR (6/9)
(U' R2 B2 U')//6e (4/13)

U B2 R2 ** U B D B' D *** * U2 F2 R F R2

*=F2 Fw2 (2/15)
**=F2 Fw2 (2/17)
***=D' L2 B2 R2 U' B2 L2 F2 (8-4/21)

Final: U B2 R2 F2 B2 D B U B' R2 B2 L2 D' B2 R2 B2 U2 F2 R F R2 (21)

After 1h:

U ** B2 R2 U B D B' D * U2 F2 R F R2

*=F2 B2 D2 F2 B2 U2//how on earth did I not see this (6-4/15)
**=U' B2 R2 L2 F2 D F2 R2 L2 B2//ughhhh (10-6/19)



3)R' U' F D2 U2 B' F2 L2 B2 F' U2 R2 D2 R D2 F L2 B' L B2 U R' B D' R' U' F

23


Spoiler



D R U F B'//EO (5/5)
L R * U R'//DR, literally the first 9 moves I tried on the scramble wtf (4/9)
D F2//123 (2/11)
U2 R2 U R2 U' L2 D2 R2//2e2e (8/19)

*=R' L' D2 L2 D2 R L F2 (8-4/23)

Final: D R U F B' D2 L2 D2 R L F2 U R' D F2 U2 R2 U R2 U' L2 D2 R2 (23)



4)R' U' F D B2 D2 U F2 L2 R2 F2 L D' L' U' L F' L2 R U' F' L' B' R' U' F

27


Spoiler



F U F B//EO (4/4)
R' D2 R2 D F2 D2 L'//DR (7/11)
(B2 R2 L2)//123 (3/14)
(D' F2 U')//3c5e (3/17)

F U F B R' D2 R2 D F2 D2 L' U F2 D * L2 R2 ** B2

*=D L2 D' **** L2 U B2 *** U' B2//block comm to 3e (8-1/24)
**=R2 Rw2 (2-4/22)
***=R2 Rw2 (2/24)
****=D2 R2 L2 U2 R2 L2 (6-3/27)

Final: F U F B R' D2 R2 D F2 D2 L' U F2 D2 L2 D R2 L2 U2 R2 U B2 R2 L2 D' F2 B2 (27)



5)R' U' F R2 D2 U2 B L2 F' D2 F' L2 F2 D R D2 U' L D B D F' D2 R' U' F

28


Spoiler



D2 L' U * F B'//EO (5/5)
D' L U2 R2 D R D//DR (7/12)
(R' U2)//123 (2/14)
F2 L F2 R2 L//2e2c (5/19)

*=U2 B' F' U F U' B U2 F' U F (11-2/28)

Final: D2 L' U' B' F' U F U' B U2 F' U F2 B' D' L U2 R2 D R D F2 L F2 R2 L U2 R (28)



6)R' U' F L2 D' F2 R2 F2 D L2 R2 D' B' L2 F R B2 U L' U2 L R2 D B' R' U' F

23


Spoiler



F' R B' U' L'//EO (5/5)
F2 D' B L2 B' U' * F' U'//DR+corners solved lmAo (8/13)
R' L D2 R' L F2//3e lmAo (6/19)

*=U2 R2 D2 B D2 R2 U2 F (8-4/23)

Final: F' R B' U' L' F2 D' B L2 B' U R2 D2 B D2 R2 U R' L D2 R' L F2 (23)



7)R' U' F R' D2 L' F2 L' B2 L D2 F2 D2 R' D' L2 U2 F' U L' B' L2 U' R' U' F

27


Spoiler



(L') B2 D2 L'//EO (4/4)
D R2 L2 F2 D B'//DR (6/10)
(D2 L2) F2 L2//223 (4/14)
U' * B2 ** U'//5c (3/17)

*=U L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 (8-4/21)
**=B2 L F L' B2 L F' L' (8-2/27)

Final: B2 D2 L' D R2 L2 F2 D B' F2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 L F L' B2 L F' L' U' L2 D2 L (27)



8)R' U' F L' B2 L' U2 F2 D2 B2 R U2 R2 F' R2 B D' R2 D2 L' F L U F' R' U' F

24


Spoiler



F' (L' F')//EO (3/3)
(R' F2 D L2 D R2 U R)//DR (8/11)
B2//orient corners (1/12)
D F2 U' * F2 U2 L2 D2 U ** B2//J-J to 6e (9/21)

*=U B2 F2 D' F2 B2//lmAo (6-6/21)
**=D2 F2 L2 F2 D2 B2 R2 B2 (8-5/24)

Final: F' B2 D B2 D' B2 U2 L2 U F2 L2 F2 D2 B2 R U' R2 D' L2 D' F2 R F L (24)



9)R' U' F U2 L2 R2 F2 D2 L2 B F D' R U' F' L R B' L2 F' U' R F R' U' F

23


Spoiler



U B2 R2 B//EO (4/4)
U D2 R' (R D R')//DR (6/10)
D R2 D' * B2 D B2 D B2 U2//6e (9/19)

*=U2 B2 ** D2 F2 D2 B2 (6-3/22)
**=F' B R2 F B' D2 (6-4/24)

U B2 R2 B U D2 R' D R2 D' U2 * B' F' R2 F' B' D' B2 D B2 U2 ** R D' R'

*=U2 Uw2 (2-3/23)
**=U2 Uw2 (2-2/23)

Final: U B2 R2 B U D2 R' D R2 D F' B' L2 F' B' D' F2 D F2 D2 R D' R' (23)



10)R' U' F L F2 D2 B2 F2 R' B2 L' B R' U2 F2 D' R2 B U L F2 R' U' F

25


Spoiler



(U) L' R' D//EO (4/4)
F2 R' B2 L' F R' F//DR (7/11)
R' * D2 F2 R2 D2 R'//3c2e2e (6/17)

*=L2 R2 U2 L2 R2 D2//to 3c (6-3/20)

L' R' * D F2 R' B2 L' F R' F R L2 ** U2 L2 R2 F2 R2 D2 R' *** U'

*=R2 D' L2 D R2 D' L2 D (8-2/26)
**=R' Rw (2-3/25)
***=R Rw' (2-2/25)

Final: L' R D' L2 D R2 D' L2 D2 F2 R' B2 L' F R' F L' F2 L2 R2 D2 R2 B2 L' U' (25)



11)R' U' F U2 B F U2 L2 B R2 B' D' B R2 D2 R D2 B F U2 F D R' U' F

24


Spoiler



F D2 U B'//EO (4/4)
D L R2 B2 L2 * D' F2 D2 R'//DR (9/13)
U2 R2//corners solved (2/15)
D' R2 L2 ** U//6e (4/19)

*=E2//3e4x (2-1/20)
**=M2 E M2 E'//3e (8-8/20)

F D2 U B' D L R2 B2 L2 U2 D B2 D2 L' U2 L2 U' F2 B2 D *

*=D' B2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 B2 (8-4/24)

Final: F D2 U B' D L R2 B2 L2 U2 D B2 D2 L' U2 L2 U' F2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 B2 (24)



12)R' U' F U2 B2 L D2 U2 B2 L' B2 D2 R F' R' B' U' B2 F R B U F2 R' U' F

25


Spoiler



L (R)//lol eo (2/2)
U2 F U' F2 R2 B' U B//DR+extra move (8/10)
(D' F2 D F2)//123 (4/14)
(U B2 U D2 F2 U2)//2e2e (6/20)

L U2 F U' F2 R2 * B' U B ** U2 F2 D2 U' B2 U' F2 D' F2 R'

*=R2 Rw2 (2-2/20)
**=F2 U' R2 Rw2 U F2 (6/26)

L U2 F U' F2 L2 F' D F B2 D' R2 L2 U ** F2 U2 F2 D2 U' * B2 U' F2 D' F2 D R'

*=U Uw' (2-3/25)
**=U' Uw (2-2/25)

Final: L U2 F U' F2 L2 F' D F B2 D' R2 L2 D R2 U2 R2 D B2 U' F2 D' F2 D R' (25)

Also this backup 26 is stupid:

F' (R L' F)
(** L2 R2 U' R B2 L' U' R2 U)//DR (13)
(F2 * U2 L)//J perm+U perm (16)

*=(F2 U L U' F2 D R' D R D2)//3e (23)
**=(F B' U2 B F' L2)//solved (26)


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## arquillian (Aug 2, 2019)

teach me slicey shenanigans pls
R' U' F D L2 B2 U B2 D2 R2 D2 L2 F2 U2 R' U2 L2 F L' B L U' L B R' U' F 

D' B' F2 R' F U' L R2 F2 R2 U' R' D2 R2 //2e2e4c


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## asacuber (Aug 2, 2019)

arquillian said:


> teach me slicey shenanigans pls
> R' U' F D L2 B2 U B2 D2 R2 D2 L2 F2 U2 R' U2 L2 F L' B L U' L B R' U' F
> 
> D' B' F2 R' F U' L R2 F2 R2 U' R' D2 R2 //2e2e4c



I might have missed something, but inserting D2 Dw2 at the beginning leaves 4x4e4c. 
There aren't any easy conjugates with M2 as the interchange after that.
I think you should rNISS this.


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## arquillian (Aug 2, 2019)

asacuber said:


> I might have missed something, but inserting D2 Dw2 at the beginning leaves 4x4e4c.
> There aren't any easy conjugates with M2 as the interchange after that.
> I think you should rNISS this.


Tried it, didn't find anything, hence asking


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## Fok96 (Aug 3, 2019)

Dr is OP
That's why you need a guide!

https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/a-domino-reduction-guide-for-fmc.74828/


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## WoowyBaby (Aug 3, 2019)

Fok96 said:


> Dr is OP
> That's why you need a guide!
> 
> https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/a-domino-reduction-guide-for-fmc.74828/


Wow, I just read it and it's an amazing guide! It covered everything, good job!


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## Cale S (Aug 4, 2019)

24.33 winning mean at US Nationals 2019


Spoiler: 23



R' U' F U2 L2 D L2 D' R2 U B2 F' U F' R U2 L' F R' B R U R' U' F 

L U' D @ B // EO 
(R' B2 F2 D2 R L F2 R' D) // Domino
L' F2 L2 R' // 17 to 3e

@ = D2 R' D2 B2 U2 L' U2 B2

Solution: L U' D' R' D2 B2 U2 L' U2 B' L' F2 L2 R' D' R F2 R' L' D2 F2 B2 R (23)

Very lucky continuation after domino





Spoiler: 25



R' U' F R U2 L F2 R' U2 L' F2 R B' R' U F2 R2 B F2 D' F' R' U' F 

L2 U' D F // EO
U2 B2 R2 // roux block
F2 U' R U' // layer missing corner
D2 L2 D' L // domino
D L2 D2 // basically 3c
D B2 U' F2 U B2 D' L2 // finish

Solution: L2 U' D F U2 B2 R2 F2 U' R U' D2 L2 D' L D L2 D' B2 U' F2 U B2 D' L2 (25)

Silly solution that I found in under 6 minutes, the domino reduction wasn't even intentional lol
I later found 12 to 3e3c but there weren't good insertions





Spoiler: 25



R' U' F U2 R D2 L D2 R2 B2 R D R' U' B' F2 D' U L' B2 D2 F' R' U' F

U' L' B' R D // EO
L' R2 U2 B U2 B' F2 R' // Domino
(B' L2 F' U2 B' U2 F D2 x2) // solve corners

U' L' B' R D L' R2 U2 B U2 B' F2 R' x2 D2 F' @ U2 B U2 F L2 B 
@ = M2 

U' L' B' R D L' R2 U2 B U2 B' F2 R' U2 B' ^ R2 L2 U2 B @ U2 F % L2 B & 
^ = S' 
@ = S 
% = S 
& = S' 

Solution: U' L' B' R D L' R2 U2 B U2 B' F2 R' U2 B2 F U2 D2 R2 B2 F' U2 B D2 F (25)

Another lucky finish after domino, but this solution is pretty cool



All the solutions had pretty lucky domino finishes, but I'm very happy with being national champion


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## asacuber (Aug 4, 2019)

Cale S said:


> 24.33 winning mean at US Nationals 2019
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 23
> ...


GJ! who else podiumed?


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## Cale S (Aug 4, 2019)

asacuber said:


> GJ! who else podiumed?



As far as I know Zachary got second with 25.00 and Mark got 3rd with 27.00


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## ChrisCuber123 (Aug 5, 2019)

27.33 mean from Nats, 4th at the comp
1. 28


Spoiler



(B R' U B) // EO
(D2 U' R B2 D' B2) // ps223
(R U R' U R U R' L') // L5C (18)
Don't have my sheet so idk what the insertions canceled but it was 6 total, missed optimal on 3c oops

Struggled a bit with this scramble, had some nice starts that led nowhere. Ended up using this stupid linear skeleton that I found within 2 minutes of starting on inverse.



2. 26


Spoiler



(B) D' B // EO, B' gives sq and 1 more move to a 2nd sq but couldn't find anything
R U R U2 // 222
L2 F2 L' D' L // 3e3c (12)
10-3 and 8-1 for 26, optimal was 25 with 10-2 nesting 8-3

This attempt really annoyed me. Scramble looked super nice with 3 pairs along with a 1 move square and multiple 2 move ones but I only ended up with a 26 because of terrible insertion luck. In addition to that, after (B) D' B R U R U2 L2 F2 there's an 8 move continuation to 3c that I missed, and optimal for that was 23 :/



3. 28


Spoiler



(U2 R) R2 B2 R // EO
U L2 (F') // 222
D' B' (D B') // 223
D2 R2 F D2 F' D' // L5C (18)
Canceled 3 and 3 for 28

Also had this 18 to 4c but optimal was 29 which I found during the attempt :/
(U2 F R' U2 F) // 2 sqs
D2 R' U' (U2) // 223
(L' U B2 U' B' U B U' L') // L4C
Canceled 3 and 2

Yet another hard scramble in my opinion, especially for a mainly EO solver like myself. Took me about 10 minutes to even find an EO that I was satisfied with continuing on. In hindsight I should've looked at the L2 start giving 2 pairs some more, but with how little I do block starts I wanted to try and stick with EO during the attempt. When I did decide to try block starts the 4c skeleton was the first thing I found then I messed around with the 223 a bit more before deciding to stop.



Overall, this mean definitely wasn't what I'd hoped for going into Nats, but I feel like I put too much pressure on myself to do well based on my results at Nats 2018 and Worlds 2019. These scrambles were pretty hard overall in my opinion and that combined with my lack of focus at certain points in solves resulted in a sub-par showing.

Congrats to Cale, Zac, and Mark for podiuming, and hopefully I'll be back on the podium next year


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## asacuber (Aug 5, 2019)

Does anyone have Zac's solution for the first one? Seems like everyone struggled on it...

Also what are the FMC uwrs?


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## ChrisCuber123 (Aug 5, 2019)

asacuber said:


> Does anyone have Zac's solution for the first one? Seems like everyone struggled on it...
> 
> Also what are the FMC uwrs?


Zac did 20 to 3e and got 6-4 insertion lol

22
L (B2 U’ R’) // EO
U2 B // SQ
F2 // set up for next sq
B D B’ // solve edge for pre existing sq
D2 U’ F2 // f2l-1
B’ D’ B D B’ D2 B D // 3E (20)

L U2 * B2 F2 D B’ D2 U’ F2 B’ D’ B D B’ D2 B D R U B2
*= U2 L’ R B2 R’ L (6-4 HAHAHAHHAHAHA)

Solute: R B2 R’ L B2 F2 D B’ D2 U’ F2 B’ D’ B D B’ D2 B D R U B2


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## asacuber (Aug 6, 2019)

I found a few cool starts for the fewest-moves.info comp:

R' U' F L2 U' L2 D F2 U F2 U F2 U2 R' F U L2 R2 B F U2 B D' U2 R' U' F



Spoiler



(U')//pair
(R' D')//ps222(2 moves)+ a ton of stuff/pairs

and:

B' R L' F D'//EO
R' B'//2 221
(B' L2)//3x 221



help pls


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## guysensei1 (Aug 7, 2019)

More solves with DR, 23.67 mean (AKA, I did 1 good solve and 2 ok ones)

1) R' U' F U' L' F D' B' L2 F' L' F' D R2 D B2 R2 U B2 L2 U2 B2 R' U' F

20


Spoiler



(B')//EO (1/1)
U' L (U2 B2 R D R')//DR (7/8)
(L2 D2 R2 B2 R2 U R2 U' R2 U)//3e (10/18)

U' L U' R2 * U R2 U' R2 B2 R2 D2 L2 R D' R' B2 U2 B

*=R2 F2 L2 D' L2 F2 R2 U' (8-6/20)

Final: U' L U' F2 L2 D' L2 F2 U' R2 B2 R2 D2 L2 R D' R' B2 U2 B (20)



2) R' U' F D2 L2 U2 L' F2 U2 R' D2 F2 R' D2 R D F2 R2 B' F L D' R' U2 R' U' F

26


Spoiler



R F L//EO (3/3)
(D' B) U' L2 U' B U' B//DR (8/11)
(U' B2 D2 L2 U' B2 U B2 U')//6E (9/20)

R F L ** U' L2 U' B U' B U B2 U' B2 U * L2 D2 B2 U B' D

*=U' B2 L2 F2 D' R2 F2 L2 (8-6/22)
**=R L' D2 R' L B2 (6-2/26)

Final: R F R D2 R' L B2 U' L2 U' B U' B U B2 U' L2 F2 D' R2 F2 D2 B2 U B' D (26)



3) R' U' F D' U' R2 U L2 B2 D B2 U' R2 F' D R D B' L' R2 U2 F' U' R' U' F

25


Spoiler



L' F' B2 R//EO (4/4)
(D2 F U2 F) B U2 D2 F'//DR (8/12)
U2 L2 D * B2//big block (4/16)
D2 R2 D' R2 D2//2e2e (5/21)

*=L2 F2 L2 B2 R2 B2 (6-2/25)

Final: L' F' B2 R B U2 D2 F' U2 L2 D L2 F2 L2 B2 R2 D2 R2 D' R2 D2 F' U2 F' D2 (25)


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## Krerey (Aug 10, 2019)

Pyra FMC?


Scramble: U B' R B L' U B R

(U’ L B R’ L) // AB 3E (5/5)

Skeleton
(1) L’ R B’ L’ U
(1) = R’ L R L’ (4-1/8)

Final solution: R’ L R L R B’ L’ U

I find pyra fmc pretty fun! I don’t do it with tips though, since that’s a fixed number of moves depending on the amount of tips scrambled.


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## guysensei1 (Aug 12, 2019)

Really cool Domino solve, reminiscent of Sebastiano's WR  

R' U' F U R' F2 L2 U2 R2 D2 F' L2 B' D2 L2 R2 B' D' F R2 B L F D2 R' U' F 

R' B L2 D'//EO+CO (4/4)
(U2 B F' R' F2 B2 L')//DR (7/11)
B U2 B' U2 B2 L2 B' U2 B' F'//J-J to 5e (10/21)
R D2 R' L B2 L'//to 2e2e (6-4/23)

R' B L2 D' B * U2 B' U2 B2 L2 B' U2 B' F' R D2 R' L ** F2 R F B' U2

*=M2 (2/25)
**=M S2 M' S2 (8-8/25)

R' B L2 D' B **** R2 L2 D2 F' *** D2 F2 L2 F' ** D2 B' F' * R D2 R L' B2 R F B' U2

*=S' (2-3/24)
**=S' (2-2/24)
***=S' (2-2/24)
****=S' (2-2/24)

Final: R' B L2 D' F U2 D2 L2 B' U2 F2 R2 B' R2 B2 R D2 R L' B2 R F B' U2 (24)


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## trangium (Aug 14, 2019)

Really lucky 23 with 4 insertions

R' U' F B2 R2 B2 D2 B2 R2 U2 L2 R' U2 L' U' R2 B U' B R' F2 L2 U R' U' F



Spoiler



L U2 // Square (2)
F' R2 // 2x2x2 (4)
L2 U2 L2 // 5e5c (7)

Skeleton: + L U2 ^ F' R2 L2 U2 L2
^ R2 B2 & R2 (10 to 3e6c)
& L' @ B' L B (14 to 5c)
@ L B' R B L' B' R' B (5 moves cancel)
+ D' R2 D L D' R2 D L' (2 moves cancel)

Final: D' R2 D L D' R2 D U2 R2 B R B L' B' R' L B R2 F' R2 L2 U2 L2 (23 HTM)


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Aug 15, 2019)

I need help. I am doing my first ever fmc solve but I have a few questions on how to do some things and if I’m doing things right. First, I’m using niss in this solve but I don’t know if I’m doing stuff right here is the solve. ( i have not finished it trying to find a good last com) this is also a standard CFOP solve so not to effective.

Scramble: R' U' F D B2 L' D2 F2 L R2 F2 R B2 D R2 D B' R' B' U L2 R' U' F

U R2 B’ F’ L F// Cross (6) normal scramble
F’ U F// F2L 1 (3) found with inverse scramble
R’ U2 R B’ U2 B// F2L 2 (6) normal scramble
B U’ B’ R’ U’ R// F2L 3 (6) normal scramble
U2 L’ U L U2 L’ U’ L// Rest of skeleton (8) Inverse
R’ U L’ U’ R U L U’// Comm that leads into a 3c case (8) inverse

And this is where I’m stuck. Also someone please tell me how to make my final solution work?


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## WoowyBaby (Aug 15, 2019)

Cubinwitdapizza said:


> I need help. I am doing my first ever fmc solve but I have a few questions on how to do some things and if I’m doing things right. First, I’m using niss in this solve but I don’t know if I’m doing stuff right here is the solve. ( i have not finished it trying to find a good last com) this is also a standard CFOP solve so not to effective.
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F D B2 L' D2 F2 L R2 F2 R B2 D R2 D B' R' B' U L2 R' U' F
> 
> ...


First ever FMC solve and you already know NISS? Alright!

So to get your final solution when using NISS, apply all of the moves you did in the normal scramble and then the inverse of all of the moves you found on the inverse scramble. 
It's standard FMC notation to write moves done on the inverse scramble in parenthesis (). And also, I see you using ’ instead of ' for your prime moves. Subtle difference, but very important.

This is what your solve would look like-

U R2 B' F' L F // Cross (6/6)
(F' U F) // F2L 1 (3/9)
R' U2 R B' U2 B // F2L 2 (6/15)
B U' B' R' U' R // F2L 3 (6/21)
(U2 L' U L U2 L' U' L) // Rest of skeleton (8/29)
(R' U L' U' R U L U') // Comm that leads into a 3c case (8/37)

3c Skeleton: U R2 B' F' L F R' U2 R B' U2 B2 U' B' R' U' R U L' U' R' U L U' R L' U L U2 L' U' L U2 F' U' F

And now you haven't inserted your corner commutator yet, so I'll just let IF take care of that
U R2 B'  F' L F R' U2 R B' U2 B2 U' B' R' U' R U L' U' R' U L U' R L' U L U2 L' U' L U2 F' U' F
L F' R F L' F' R' F (8-2)
(As a challenge, try to find your very own 3 corner insertion that cancels 1 move!)
And then write out the final solution: U R2 B' L F' R F L' F' R' L F R' U2 R B' U2 B2 U' B' R' U' R U L' U' R' U L U' R L' U L U2 L' U' L U2 F' U' F (42)

If you just want to generally get better at FMC, I'd highly recommend Sebastiano's FMC Tutorial. Good luck with FMC!


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Aug 18, 2019)

Question, how do you do niss when you have rotations on the inverse?


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## WoowyBaby (Aug 18, 2019)

Cubinwitdapizza said:


> Question, how do you do niss when you have rotations on the inverse?


Quick answer: Don't use rotations at all.

Using no rotations makes it a lot easier, but it takes a little bit to get used to it.
Instead of thinking, for example, the top face is white and the front face is green, instead think that the white face is U and the green face is F.


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## asacuber (Aug 19, 2019)

alright, so i'm slightly stuck with domino, I get EO easily, but setting up triggers is hard.  Can anyone help with this example?

R' U' F U2 F' L2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B U2 F2 D' R U' B' D2 U F' L' B' U' R' U' F

(F') U2 L2 F/F' //EO, DR-4c2e (setup to 1 move)


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## WoowyBaby (Aug 19, 2019)

asacuber said:


> alright, so i'm slightly stuck with domino, I get EO easily, but setting up triggers is hard.  Can anyone help with this example?
> 
> R' U' F U2 F' L2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B U2 F2 D' R U' B' D2 U F' L' B' U' R' U' F
> 
> (F') U2 L2 F/F' //EO, DR-4c2e (setup to 1 move)


(F') U2 L2 F' //EO, DR-4c2e (setup to 1 move)
U2 R' F2 L2 U2 R' D // DR (7/11)

U2 R' F2 L2 U2 forms the two "T" bars needed and R' D completes the job


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## Cale S (Aug 25, 2019)

25.00 official mean at 3x3 only Minnesota 2019
all domino again



Spoiler: 27



(not the actual scramble): U D R D2 B' U2 R D2 R L' U2 D' F2 R2 U' F2 R'

R U L B // EO
U2 R D' F2 U R U' R' // Domino (12)
D' F2 U2 R2 ^ U' @ F2 U2 // solve corners

@ = U' L2 F2 L2 U F2 L2 F2 U2 // 9 - 1
^ = R2 U2 F2 U2 R2 U2 F2 U2 // 8 - 8

Solution: R U L B U2 R D' F2 U R U' R' D' U2 R2 U2 F2 L2 F2 L2 U F2 L2 F2 U2 F2 U2 (27)

This scramble looked nice and I found a different domino that seemed really promising, but it didn't end up working and my time management wasn't very good

I was expecting to go with a backup 29 until I found this with a minute or two left





Spoiler: 24



R' U' F L2 B L2 B' L2 F2 U2 B2 D2 L2 D L2 D R U2 B2 R' D' R' D R' U' F

(R) B U B R' // EO
(B2 D R2 D' F') // Domino (10)
U R2 U' B2 D L2 // solve corners
L2 R2 D2 L2 R2 U2 // solve the 2e2e
U2 F' B L2 B' F // solve the 3e

B U B R' U @ R2 U' ^ B2 D % R2 D2 L2 R2 F' B L2 B' F2 D R2 D' B2 R'
@ = E
^ = E2
% = E

B U B R' U2 D' F2 U D2 @ L2 U R2 ^ D2 L2 R2 F' B L2 B' F2 D R2 D' B2 R'
@ = E2
^ = E2

Solution: B U B R' U2 D' F2 U' R2 U L2 U2 L2 R2 F' B L2 B' F2 D R2 D' B2 R' (24)





Spoiler: 24



R' U' F L' B2 U2 R U2 R2 B2 U2 R2 D F D' B R' U' L U2 R' F D2 R' U' F

F R' F' R B' // EO + sq
(U) D2 B2 R' D' // Domino (10)
R B2 @ % D2 R D2 ^ R2 F2 L B2 L2 // solve corners, 20 to 5e

@ = S2 // 20 to 4e4x
^ = E2 // 20 to 3e4x
% = F2 L D2 B2 U2 R B2 D2 // 23 to 4x

F R' F' R B' D2 B2 R' D' R2 @ U2 B2 D2 L B2 ^ L D2 R2 B2 L F2 L2 & x2 U'
@ = M2
^ = M2
& = M2

Solution: F R' F' R B' D2 B2 R' D' L2 D2 F2 U2 L F2 L' R2 D2 R2 B2 L F2 R2 U' (24)

I found a 25 by doing the 5e with an 8 mover that cancelled 3, but then I tried this crazy stuff and it turned out better


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## Benjamin Warry (Aug 25, 2019)

I just did my first ever DR solve and got a 24!

Scramble: R2 U' L2 D' R2 D2 F2 D F2 U B2 U2 B' U R F2 D' B U2 L2

(D' U2 R) // EO
(D' U' F') // DR except for one E layer edge
(B2 D F2 U R2 U2) // solving corners and stuff, 12 moves to 5e

^ U2 R2 U' F2 D' B2 F @ U D R' U2 D

^ = F B' R2 F' B U2

@ = D' F2 R2 B2 U' B2 R2 F2

Final Solution: F B' R2 F' B R2 U' F2 D' B2 F D' F2 R2 B2 U' B2 R2 F2 U D R' U2 D

DR is very much op. I probably wasted the 12 moves to 5e though.


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## Llama5 (Aug 25, 2019)

First DR solve as well. I was expecting a lot worse but a 26 is very nice.

Scramble: R' U' F L2 D2 R2 B2 F' D2 L2 F' R2 F' L F' D' F D R' U' L2 B L F2 R' U' F
(First scramble from Brasília Winter 2019 - I didn’t go to the comp but I pulled the scramble from it)

(F L’ U’ B) //EO F/B (4/4)
(D’ R) //4c1e left (2/6)
U’ B2 U2 R’ D2 R //DR (6/12)
(L2 F2 D’ F2 U2) //AB12E (5/17)
M2 U’ S2 U E2 //AB3E (8-3/22)

Skeleton: U’ B2 U2 R’ D2 R’ L2 D’ F2 B2 U D2 $ F2 D F2 L2 R’ D B’ U L F’
$ = [U2, S’] //3e (6-2/26)

Solution: U’ B2 U2 R’ D2 R’ L2 D’ F2 B2 U’ D2 F B’ R2 B F D F2 L2 R’ D B’ U L F’


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Aug 26, 2019)

Can someone post a video (preferably that you have made) on domino and on how to do insertions? If so thanks! Woowy I think you would be good at explaining it


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## WoowyBaby (Aug 26, 2019)

Cubinwitdapizza said:


> Can someone post a video (preferably that you have made) on domino and on how to do insertions? If so thanks! Woowy I think you would be good at explaining it


Aw Thanks! Although I've barely made any videos at all, I'll consider doing that and post again here _*if *_I do, but for the meantime here are some very useful resources to check out:
Fokainos & Raposio 's Written Domino Reduction Guide, and Shawn Boucke's Full FMC Video Guide, and of course, Sebastiano Tronto's Legendary Written Full FMC Guide.
I know this isn't exactly what you're asking for, but I still think these will help!


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## guysensei1 (Aug 27, 2019)

22.9 ao12, I won't beat this in a long long time

R' U' F U' B2 L2 D' U2 L2 U' R2 F2 L R D' R' F2 R F' L2 U B2 R' U' F 

24


Spoiler



(U' L2 U2 L')//222 (4/4)
(F2 R' F')//EO (3/7)
(R2 * D R D')//123 (4/11)
(R2 D2 R)//3e3c (3/14)

*=(R U R' D2 R U' R' ** D2) (8-2/20)
**=(R2 B2 L2 U L2 B2 R2 D) (8-4/24)

Final: R' D2 R2 D R B2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' U R' D2 R U' R F R F2 L U2 L2 U (24)




R' U' F R' U2 R' F2 U' R' D B' F2 D' L2 D2 F2 U R2 D' L2 D L2 B2 F R' U' F 

21


Spoiler



D R (D R)//EO (4/4)
U2 B2 R2//222 (3/7)
(L2 U B2)//223 (3/10)
U' B L2 B2 U' B U2//3c (7/17)

D R U2 B2 R2 U' B L2 B2 U' B U2 B2 * U' L2 R' D'

*=L2 U' R' U L2 U' R U (8-4/21)

Final: D R U2 B2 R2 U' B L2 B2 U' B U2 B2 L2 U' R' U L2 U' L2 D' (21)




R' U' F L' F' L D2 B2 D2 F2 L D2 B2 L2 F2 L' D L2 U' R2 F R' D2 R' U' F 

21


Spoiler



L' D2 L'//EO (3/3)
(D2 F' U2 F U)//DR (5/8)
D2 F D2 * B L2 F2//corners (6/14)
F2 L2 R2 B2 L2 R2//some edges (6-4/16)

*=M2//4e4x (2/18)

L' D2 L' D2 F D2 R2 L2 F [R2 F2 R2 L2] U' F' U2 F D2

Replace [] with [L2 B2 D2 * R2 L2 U2], 2e2e in 19

*=D2 B2 D2 F2 U2 F2 (6-4/21)

Final: L' D2 L' D2 F D2 R2 L2 F L2 D2 F2 U2 F2 R2 L2 U F' U2 F D2 (21)




R' U' F D2 F2 L2 U F2 L2 D2 L2 U' R2 U' L F L B' L2 D' F L R2 D R' U' F 

22


Spoiler



L2 F' U' R2 D//222+extra move (5/5)
B R' U2 R//blocks (4/9)
U D L' * D' U'//3e3c (5/14)

*=L' D2 L ** U L' D2 L U' (8-2/20)
**=L' U' D F U F' D' U L U' (10-8/22)

Final: L2 F' U' R2 D B R' U2 R U D L2 D' U' F U F' D U L D' U2 (22)




R' U' F R' F2 R2 D2 F R2 U2 F2 D2 B' U2 D F R' U2 B2 L2 B' F R' U' F 

24


Spoiler



B R D' L//EO (4/4)
(D B D' B U B')//DR (6/10)
(U2 F2 D' R2)//123 (4/14)
(D B2 D' F2 D B2)//3e (6/20)

B R D' L B2 D' F2 * D B2 D' R2 D F2 U2 B U' B' D B' D'

*=F2 L2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2 D' (8-4/24)

Final: B R D' L B2 D' L2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2 B2 D' R2 D F2 U2 B U' B' D B' D' (24)




R' U' F U' B2 D' U2 F2 U' B2 L2 B2 L2 F2 U' L D F D2 U L' R2 D2 R' U' F 

22


Spoiler



L (B L)//EO (3/3)
(F D)//sq (2/5)
F' R2 B2 * D' F'//223 (5/10)
B U B' R2//cross piece (4/14)
D' F' U2 F D//4c (5-4/15)

*=B2 R' D2 F2 R B2 L' U2 F2 L (10-3/22)

Final: L F' R D2 F2 R B2 L' U2 F2 L D' F' B U B' R2 D' F' U2 L' B' (22)




R' U' F L F' U L2 U2 F' L' D' B2 L2 B2 R2 D2 F2 R B2 R' U2 D2 B' R' U' F 

21


Spoiler



(B F2 L F)//EO (4/4)
(R D2) R2 B2//222 (4/8)
L2 D' L2 D//diamond (4/12)
U' R U R'//F2L-1 (4/16)
U2 L U2 L' U'//nice (5/21)

Final: R2 B2 L2 D' L2 D U' R U R' U2 L U2 L' U' D2 R' F' L' F2 B' (21)




R' U' F L2 F' D F' R2 L D' U2 F D2 B R2 D2 B L2 D2 L2 D F R' U' F 

25


Spoiler



U2 B'//pairs (2/2)
(R F2 U' F2 U F2)//223 (6/8)
D R B' D2 * B//sq (5/13)
F' R' F D//3e3c (4/17)
D' F2 L2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2//3c (8-5/20)

*=D B D' F' D B' D' F (8-3/25)

Final: U2 B' D R B' D' B D' F' D B' D' B R' F' L2 B2 U' B2 L2 U' F2 U F2 R' (25)




R' U' F U' F U2 L' B2 L D2 B2 R B2 U2 L' R' U L U2 R B D F2 R' U' F 

28


Spoiler



R2 F (L R2 F')//EO (5/5)
(U R2 U R2 U R2 U D2 R')//DR (9/14)
(U F2 B2 U2 B2 U')//223 (6/20)
(R2 B2 R2 B2 U' B2 U B2)//solved (8/28)

Final: R2 F B2 U' B2 U B2 R2 B2 R2 U B2 U2 B2 F2 U' R D2 U' R2 U' R2 U' R2 U' F R2 L' (28)




R' U' F R2 F' R2 F' R2 D2 F' R2 F D2 B D B' R2 D' R D' L' B2 D' B2 R' U' F

24


Spoiler



L (B2 D2 R)//EO (4/4)
U ** F U' * F'//sq (4/8)
B2 U' F2 U2 D//2e2e3c (5/13)

*=U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 B2 L2 B2 (8-3/18)
**=L' B2 L F L' B2 L F' (8-2/24)

Final: L U L' B2 L F L' B2 L U R2 F2 R2 U2 B2 L2 F' U' F2 U2 D R' D2 B2 (24)




R' U' F R' D2 U2 L' U2 L B2 R F2 L' U2 B' F L F' U2 B' U L2 D2 R' U' F

22


Spoiler



B (U' L2 B)//DR (4/4)
D2 U R F2 U' R D' R'//DR (8/12)
U L2 R2//big block (3/15)
D2 L2 U' L2 U L2 D'//end (7/22)

Final: B D2 U R F2 U' R D' R' U L2 R2 D2 L2 U' L2 U L2 D' B' L2 U (22)




R' U' F R F' R2 B2 D2 L2 F2 D2 L2 B' L2 R2 B' D' U B L' B' U' B' D2 R' U' F

24


Spoiler



(B') D L2 F//EO (4/4)
D' R' (U' B2 L2 D U2 L')//DR (8/12)
L2 U'//222 (2/14)
(B2 D' L2 D)//223 (4/18)
(L2 D' B2 D2 U' L2 U D')//solved (8-1/25)

D L2 F D' R' L2 U2 D * L2 U D2 ** B2 D *** L2 D' **** L2 D B2 L U2 D' L2 B2 U B

*=E (2-3/24)
**=E2 (2-3/23)
***=E2 (2-1/24)
****=E' (2-2/24)

Final: D L2 F D' R' L2 U' B2 U' L2 U2 D' B2 U' L2 D B2 L U2 D' L2 B2 U B (24)


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## guysensei1 (Aug 31, 2019)

23.33 AsR mean solutions

R' U' F D2 B2 R2 B' F' U2 L2 D2 L2 F2 U' B' L D' R' D2 U R' B U' R' U' F

23,


Spoiler



L' R2 B'//EO (3/3)
D2 *** L2 B2 ** U F2 D' L *//DR (7/10)
B2 L2//3c5e (2/12)

*=L R' U2 L' R B2 (6-4/14)
**=B2 R L' D2 R' L (6-3/17)
***=D L D' R' D L' D' R (8-2/23)

Final: L' R2 B' D' L D' R' D L' D' R2 L D2 R' L U F2 D' L2 R' U2 R L




R' U' F D2 B2 F2 L D2 R' B2 D2 R D2 L F L' D2 L' R' U' L2 F2 R' U' R' U' F

23


Spoiler



R (U F2 B' L)//EOsq (5/5)
(U F L2)//layer-1 corner (3/8)
(D F D F' D')//7e (5/13)
R D F D' F' D' L2 * F' U' L' ** B F2 U'

*=L2 U' D F2 U D' (6-4/15)
**=D R' D' L' R F L D'//yo (8/23)

Final: R D F D' F' U' F2 U D' F' U' L' D R' D' L' R F L D' B F2 U'

^this was a hard scramble and i fluked it equally hard




R' U' F R2 U B2 U' L2 U' F2 L2 D2 F' L2 R B' U2 L' D2 U' R' D U F' R' U' F

24


Spoiler



F' D R' B'//EO (4/4)
F2 L' R2 U F2 U'//DR (6/10)
R2 L * F2//3e3c (3/13)

*=L' F2 D2 B2 R' U2 B2 D2 ** (8-2/19)
**=D2 B' U' B D2 B' U B (8-3/24)

Final: F' D R' B' F2 L' R2 U F2 U' R2 F2 D2 B2 R' U2 B U' B D2 B' U B F2

There is a really easy 22 with a 4 cancel 3c as the first insertion, but I missed it. sigh.....


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## xyzzy (Sep 1, 2019)

A random 23 single in the weekly comp:



Spoiler



Scramble #1: R' U' F R' B2 R' B2 R' D2 B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 D R U L D U2 R2 B' F' R' D R' U' F

U D @ F' // EO (3/3)
R2 U D R' D2 R // pxxcross (6/9)
D' L2 D L' D2 // edges; ab5c (5/14)

@ = U' F' D F U F' # D' F // 4 cancel
# = F' D' B' D F D' B D // 3 cancel (9/23)

Final solution (23): D F' D F U F2 D' B' D F D' B R2 U D R' D2 R D' L2 D L' D2

Skeleton is also a 12-move DR, although I wasn't specifically looking for that. For that matter, it also seems that nobody else found this DR either!
U D F' // EO (3/3)
R2 U D R' D2 R D' L2 D // DR (9/12)
L' D2 // ab5c (2/14)

I wasn't expecting nice cancellations (the pieces were all in bad positions at the end of the skeleton, which usually also means they're in bad positions elsewhere in the skeleton), but it happened to work out.

My solutions for scrambles 2 and 3 were just bad and not really noteworthy. (I guess for #3 I initially thought the ZBLL alg would cancel 4+ moves but then I noticed that I wrote it at the wrong AUF and the correct one cancelled only 2 moves. Disappointing, but I'll still take 2 moves cancelling over none.)



(Also it looks like I'm going to fall out of top 100 officially for good, RIP. It was good while it lasted.)


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## asacuber (Sep 1, 2019)

guysensei1 said:


> 23.33 AsR mean solutions
> 
> R' U' F D2 B2 R2 B' F' U2 L2 D2 L2 F2 U' B' L D' R' D2 U R' B U' R' U' F
> 
> ...


Yay, nice
also the first one should be 23, and do you have Firstian's 21?


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## guysensei1 (Sep 1, 2019)

asacuber said:


> Yay, nice
> also the first one should be 23, and do you have Firstian's 21?


Fixed

21:

R' U' F R2 U B2 U' L2 U' F2 L2 D2 F' L2 R B' U2 L' D2 U' R' D U F' R' U' F

D' // Reduce U/D to 2 bad edges (1/1)
F' D2 R' B // DR-2E3C (4/5)
(R' L' D' R D) // DR (5/10)
R2 B2 L' // Thistlewhistle (3/13)
F2 L2 R2 // 1x2x3 (3/16)
D2 F2 U2 // 2E2E (3/19)

Skeleton: D' F' D2 R' B R2 B2 L' F2 L2 R2 * D2 F2 U2 D' R' D L R 

* = L2 D2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 D2 (8-6/21)

Final: D' F' D2 R' B R2 B2 L' F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 U2 R2 U2 D' R' D L R (21)


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## PugCuber (Sep 11, 2019)

Reconstruction of my 35 PB Single

Scramble: R’ U’ F L D F2 L’ F2 U R U B R’ B2 L2 D2 F2 L B2 R B2 R’ D2 R’ U’ F
Inverse: F' U R D2 R B2 R' B2 L' F2 D2 L2 B2 R B' U' R' U' F2 L F2 D' L' F' U R



Spoiler: Solution



F D2 // Pseudo 222 (2 Moves wtf)
(D2 R U R2 U2 R2 B’) // F2L-1
B U B U’ B’ U’ B U’ L U’ L’ U2 F R U R’ U’ R U’ R’ U’ R U R’ F’ U’ // Finish

Final Solution: F D2 B U B U’ B’ U’ B U’ L U’ L’ U2 F R U R’ U’ R U’ R’ U’ R U R’ F’ U’ B R2 U2 R2 U’ R’ D2 (35 Moves)


Very happy with this. After over a year I finally beat my 39.


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Sep 11, 2019)

OMG! I just got a 28 Pb single by a long shot!

Scramble: L2 D’ F2 R2 B’ U2 R2 B U B’ L F2 R U2 F2 L U2 L2 U2

B R2 U’ D’ B // EO (5/5)
D2 F2 // 2x2x2 (2/7)
D L’ D2 B2 D // 2x2x3 (5/12)
U’ L2 U L’ // All but 4c (4/16)
L U L’ R’ U2 L U2 L’ U2 R U’ L U2 L’ U2 // 4c (15/31)

Final solution: B R2 U’ D’ B D2 F2 D L’ D2 B2 D U’ L2 U2 L’ R’ U2 L U2 L’ U2 R U’ L U2 L’ U2 (28)

I don’t know if this scramble was lucky or I just found a really good EO but that was an awesome scramble! I found this in 15 minutes. It was ridiculous.


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## NykoCuber1 (Sep 11, 2019)

With insertions:

B R2 U' D' B D2 F2 D L' D2 B2 D U' L2 U L'
R U' L2 U R' U' L2 U (8-6)

SkeletonB R2 U' D' B D2 F2 D L' D2 B2 D R U' L2 U L' R'
F L' B2 L F' L' B2 L (8-2)

Final Solution: B R2 U' D' B D2 F2 D L' D2 B2 D R U' L2 U F L' B2 L F' L' B2 R' // 24

If you don't know insertions check out the guide from Sebastiano:
https://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf


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## asacuber (Sep 14, 2019)

@Tommy Kiprillis GJ on 23.00 OcR mean, recons?


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## Kit Clement (Sep 14, 2019)

asacuber said:


> @Tommy Kiprillis GJ on 23.00 OcR mean, recons?



He posted them on Facebook. I'll copypasta for you here -- Pretty slick solutions with some nice insertions! 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. 

Scramble: R' U' F D2 F2 U2 B2 U' R2 U L2 U R2 U2 R' B' L2 U B2 U' R U L2 F' R' U' F

21

(F2 R) U R2 // 222

D2 L2 // nice pairs

(L' B') B2 // pF2L-1

D B D' B' L D L2 D' L // 18 to 3e

U R2 D2 L2 B2 ^ D B D' B' L D L2 D' L B L R' F2

^ - B2 L2 B2 D2 B2 L2 B2 D2 (21)

Solution: U R2 D2 B2 D2 B2 L2 B2 D' B D' B' L D L2 D' L B L R' F2 (21)

Comments: Found this promising start with about 20 mins left of the attempt, found 17 to 3tc right away but took me a while to notice this, the other skeleton I had was 16 to 5c. Lucky insertion as well, I noticed a lot of double moves when checking the first spot (noticing the almost 6 mover) so a good cancel on one of those 8 movers was bound to happen.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.

Scramble: R' U' F R2 F2 D2 U B2 D' F2 R2 F2 L' U2 B2 L' D' F L R2 U L' F R' U' F

23

B' R2 B' // 222

U F' // EO

R2 U' F2 // Diamond

(U' L') L' // F2L-1

R' U2 R U R' U2 R U' // 19 to 3c

B' R2 B' U F' R2 U' F2 L' R' U2 R ^ U R' U2 R U' L U

^ - R' U' L' U R U' L U (23)

Solution: B' R2 B' U F' R2 U' F2 L' R' U L' U R U' L U2 R' U2 R U' L U (23)

Comments: Very nice scramble, had many skeletons with average insertions giving 26/25s, then I finally found this. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. 

Scramble: R' U' F D' B2 R2 U L2 B2 U' R2 U B2 U' L' D U2 R' B' D' U B2 L B2 R' U' F

25

F' U' R D' // EO square

(R2) // p222

B R D2 B // 223 w/ inserted B

L2 D2 L' D2 L B' L B D2 // 18 to 2tc

F' U' R D' B R D2 B L2 # D2 L' D2 L ^ B' L B D2 R2 

^ - L' D2 L U L' D2 L U' // 20 to 3c

# - L' D' L U L' D L U' (25)

Solution: F' U' R D' B R D2 B L D' L U L' D L D2 L' D2 L U' B' L B D2 R2 (25)

Comments: At first glance, this scramble didn't look that good, relative to the first two, however, I found this halfway through the attempt, then I couldn't find anything following.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall comments: Very happy I got this, being my first top 10 ranking for an average (lol 2x2 single). Lucky insertions save the day!


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## asacuber (Sep 14, 2019)

cool stuff. I wish i was on fb lol


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## Keroma12 (Sep 15, 2019)

(Originally posted in the FM facebook group.)

SpeedSolving Weekly Competition 2019-37 #2

My first sub-30 at home.

Scramble: R' U' F U F' L2 U D2 R' D F B' L2 D' L2 F2 R2 D' F2 U L2 U' B2 R' U' F



Spoiler: Solution



U (1) R F' U' D2 L2 // (6/ 6) 2x2x2 & 1x2x2

F2 D [R D'] // (2/ 8) F2 & finish blue cross

[D R'] U' R U R // (4/12) 3rd F2L pair

F D // (2/14) 4th F2L pair; 3E3C

Insert at (1): (2) B2 R F' R' B2 R F R' (cancel 4 of 8)

Insert at (2): L' R D2 L R' B2 (cancel 4 of 6)

Solution: U R L' D2 L F' R' B2 R U' D2 L2 F2 D U' R U R F D' (20)



Insertions were optimal.

Previous PB(&NR) was 24.

I still feel like I don't know how to do FM.


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## KAINOS (Sep 19, 2019)

I was doing a casual solve at home with this scramble: R’ U’ F R2 D2 F2 U2 L' B2 R U2 L2 U2 F2 U2 F U' R2 B2 D2 F' D R' R’ U’ F
Then I found this really nice F2L-1
R L2 F2 U B R (L’ D’ F’ D’) D
Can anyone find a good continuation from this? I did U L U’ L F’ L2 F to L4C and got 28(IF says 23 is optimal, now I regret not searching more thoroughly), but I wanna see what people that are way better than me can do


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## Sowrduk (Sep 20, 2019)

KAINOS said:


> I was doing a casual solve at home with this scramble: R’ U’ F R2 D2 F2 U2 L' B2 R U2 L2 U2 F2 U2 F U' R2 B2 D2 F' D R' R’ U’ F
> Then I found this really nice F2L-1
> R L2 F2 U B R (L’ D’ F’ D’) D
> Can anyone find a good continuation from this? I did U L U’ L F’ L2 F to L4C and got 28(IF says 23 is optimal, now I regret not searching more thoroughly), but I wanna see what people that are way better than me can do



I'm not that good at FMC, so I don't know, but I got a 32 (PB) which is pretty cool.

Scramble: R' U' F L U R' U2 R2 U F2 D F2 R2 U B2 U2 R2 F D' L U2 B2 D2 B' R' U' F

Skeleton: L' U' R F' R' D F2 U2 R B2 * R U' B R2 F R' F' U2 R B' R' B2 U' B' U' F

Insertion: D' L D R D' L' D R' (Cancels two moves)

Final Solution: L' U' R F' R' D F2 U2 R B2 D' L D R D' L' D U' B R2 F R' F' U2 R B' R' B2 U' B' U' F (32)

First solve using premoves, insertions and NISS. Former PB was 37 with blockbuilding LL skip. 
Edit: Optimal insertion was 31.


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## asacuber (Sep 20, 2019)

KAINOS said:


> I was doing a casual solve at home with this scramble: R’ U’ F R2 D2 F2 U2 L' B2 R U2 L2 U2 F2 U2 F U' R2 B2 D2 F' D R' R’ U’ F
> Then I found this really nice F2L-1
> R L2 F2 U B R (L’ D’ F’ D’) D
> Can anyone find a good continuation from this? I did U L U’ L F’ L2 F to L4C and got 28(IF says 23 is optimal, now I regret not searching more thoroughly), but I wanna see what people that are way better than me can do


U L' U' does give 3 twisted corners and 3 edges, but i doubt it's better


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## uesyuu (Sep 23, 2019)

24.00 official FMC mean with 19 single! Finally sub25!
Done at Ayase Autumn.

1st 26
Scramble: R' U' F U2 L' U2 L F2 L F2 L B2 D U2 B2 L2 D L' F' D' L2 F' D' R' U' F

R L2 U // EO
(L U2 L') // 122
(B' R D2 R F) // 222+122
(L' B2 L' B') // 5c

sk: R L2 U B * L B2 L F' R' D2 R' B L U2 L'
*: [B' L F2 ** L' B L F2 L']
**: [B2 L F L' B2 L F' L']

Final: R L2 U L F2 B2 L F L' B2 L F' L2 B L F2 B2 L F' R' D2 R' B L U2 L' (26)

2nd 19
Scramble: R' U' F L2 U L2 U2 F2 D' B2 L2 B' R2 U2 F U2 R D R F R2 D U R' U' F

(L F) // EO
(U' B2 R' U' L) // 2 square
(F2 R' U F2) // 222
(U' R U' R) // more 221 and DR!?
(U R2 U' B2) // Finish

Final: B2 U R2 U' R' U R' U F2 U' R F2 L' U R B2 U F' L' (19)

comment:
I found this in 10 minute, so I left the room immidiately.

3rd 27
Scramble: R' U' F U F2 R2 U F2 L2 U' L' D2 L' D' B2 R U B R U2 L U' R' U' F

(D' U2 F) // EO
L2 U2 D2 B2 R // 222
D L' D' L // 223
(D R' D2 R) // F2L-1
(R L D' L' D R' D2) // 3c

sk: L2 U2 D2 B2 R D L' D' L D2 R * D' L D L' R2 D2 R D' F' U2 D
*: [L' U L D' L' U' L D]

Final: L2 U2 D2 B2 R D L' D' L D2 R L' U L D' L' U' L2 D L' R2 D2 R D' F' U2 D (27)

comment:
This scramble looks like easy, but I couldn't find sub25 solution. Arifumi Fushimi found 23moves with same EO.


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## asacuber (Sep 23, 2019)

nice! @okayama come back


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## okayama (Sep 24, 2019)

uesyuu said:


> 24.00 official FMC mean with 19 single! Finally sub25!
> Done at Ayase Autumn.
> 
> 
> ...


Huge congrats uesyuu! You really deserve to get the results.



asacuber said:


> nice! @okayama come back


Hopefully


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## Lvl9001Wizard (Sep 24, 2019)

From current reddit weekly comp (im giving up getting a mo3 because this scramble is making me lose my mind)


Spoiler: Scramble: R' U' F L F' L' B U' D2 L2 F' U F2 U R2 D L2 U' D2 B2 L2 U R' U' F 



There's a 3 move CO - L' U' L - but i can't get DR. I've looked at lots of options but there's always an odd number of misoreinted edges in the E layer which makes it hard to get DR. Maybe i may have missed some good continuations

If you do CO first, should EO or E-layer edges next be more important?



Edit: i posted the wrong scramble, updated


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## WoowyBaby (Sep 25, 2019)

Lvl9001Wizard said:


> From current reddit weekly comp (im giving up getting a mo3 because this scramble is making me lose my mind)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Scramble: R' U' F U F2 D2 L2 B2 L2 R2 D U2 F2 U' R B D F2 R' B2 L U2 R' F' R' U' F
> ...


I went through the scramble and tried L' U' L, but it doesn't solve CO.... Am I doing something wrong?

Using a completely different approach this is what I found:
R' B // SQ (2/2)
F' // EO (1/3)
R' // ps222 (1/4)
D' // SQ (1/5)
L D' // DR-4c4e (2/7)
L B2 D // DR (3/10)
R L D2 L' // All DR's (4/14)
F' U2 B' R2 // Good stuff (4/18)
B2 U2 B' R2 F B2 // Finish (6/24)
Solution: R' B F' R' D' L D' L B2 D R L D2 L' F' U2 B' R2 B2 U2 B' R2 F B2 (24)
I do have to say that is a pretty easy scramble.

As for your question about continuing CO-first, I'd say do EO and then E-edges, as long as don't have a ton of bad edges.


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## Lvl9001Wizard (Sep 26, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> I went through the scramble and tried L' U' L, but it doesn't solve CO.... Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> Using a completely different approach this is what I found:
> R' B // SQ (2/2)
> ...



Oops wrong scramble, here's the 2nd and correct scramble
R' U' F L F' L' B U' D2 L2 F' U F2 U R2 D L2 U' D2 B2 L2 U R' U' F


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## xyzzy (Sep 26, 2019)

First scramble of last week's forum weekly:

Scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 L2 D R2 U' R2 U R2 B2 F2 L U R' B F' L F' L2 D' R' U' F 

Solution (26): R2 U F U2 D2 F D2 F B D2 B' D' F2 D B D2 B' D F' D2 F2 L2 U' L' U' D2

(D2 U L) // EO (3/3)
U F U2 // two squares (3/6)
(U L2 F2 D2 F' D' F2) // 223 + three pairs (7/13)
D2 F D2 F' // ab4c4e (2-cycles) (4−1/16)

skeleton:
@ U F U2 D2 F D2 F # D F D2 F2 L2 U' L' U' D2
@ = R2 // edges; ab3c3c (1/17)
# = B D $ F2 D' B' D F2 D' // ab3c (8−3/22)
$ = D B' D' F2 D B D' F2 // finish (8−4/26)

First time I used a single half turn as an insertion (without any setup moves), I think. Spent probably too much time on trying to insert setup moves to solve all the pieces at once, then I gave up and did the two 3-cycles. 26 moves matches what Insertion Finder could find on default settings.

(Third scramble also went pretty well for me, although that was kinda just luck and it's not really noteworthy. I see @WoowyBaby found the same start as me but used it to get a 3e skeleton and had a nicer insertion.)


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## porkynator (Sep 26, 2019)

Lvl9001Wizard said:


> From current reddit weekly comp (im giving up getting a mo3 because this scramble is making me lose my mind)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Scramble: R' U' F L F' L' B U' D2 L2 F' U F2 U R2 D L2 U' D2 B2 L2 U R' U' F
> ...



I would go for EO first, usually. Even without going for full DR, corner first skeletons with EO can give nice insertions.

In your case I can modify your CO:

[S,L'] //EO, cancels 2
L' [U R': S2] //Adjust E-layer edges, cancels 1
U' L //DR in 12

Simplified: B F' D' B' F U R' B2 F2 L D2 R (using this script)

and then corners are very easy to solve: D2 L2 D' F2 D (you could see this before messing around with edges).
You can also just start with B F' D' B' F U L, which gives CO + EO. Then you solve corners and then edges with insertions (of course solving some edges while solving corners makes your life easier).


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## GAN 356 X (Sep 26, 2019)

Has there a way to do FMC on cstimer.net?


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## asacuber (Sep 26, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> Has there a way to do FMC on cstimer.net?


Can you elaborate?


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## White KB (Sep 30, 2019)

I got a DR solve of 45.
I know it's good for a start, but I might need critiquing on it a little (or a lot)
Here's the solve:



Spoiler: Scramble: R' U' F R' D F D' L2 R2 B F L' B F' D B2 U L' F2 D B F' D R B' L' F' D R' U' F



F R F D F' (5/5) // EO
U2 D' L D L' (5/10) // Preserve + Pseudo 2x2x2 Block
D R' D R D (4/14) // Insert FR edge + Setup to WV alg
R U2 L' U' L U2 R' (7/21) // mirrored WV + inadvertent 2x2x2 Block
D' R2 D2 R2 D2 (5/26) // 2x2x3 Block [wrong way]
D' R2 D (3/29) // Extension to 2x2x3 Block [pretty much a 2x2x3 Block that's the right way]
U R2 U' R2 (4/33) // 3x3x2 Block [basically finishing F2L]
R' U R' U' B' R' B2 U' B' U B' R B R (14/47) // PLL with a V Perm

Solution: F R F D F' U2 D' L D L' D R' D R D R U2 L' U' L U2 R' D' R2 D2 R2 D R2 D U R2 U' R U R' U' B' R' B2 U' B' U B' R B R
47 moves
-2 cancellations
_________________
45 moves



I'm trying to get sub-30 on FMC, and I just need to know how to get better at efficiency. I know NISS, but I couldn't get any good solutions with it, so if you have any other tips please let me know.
Thanks!

-White KB


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## Cuberstache (Sep 30, 2019)

White KB said:


> I got a DR solve of 45.


Not to be rude, but that solve didn't use DR at all. An EO start is not DR.


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## White KB (Oct 2, 2019)

CuberStache said:


> Not to be rude, but that solve didn't use DR at all. An EO start is not DR.


I thought it was DR. Maybe you could do a *real* DR solve for that scramble?
'Cause I'm confused now...


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## Cuberstache (Oct 2, 2019)

White KB said:


> I thought it was DR. Maybe you could do a *real* DR solve for that scramble?
> 'Cause I'm confused now...


I'm very inexperienced with DR and I don't have the time to do a whole solve today but here's a DR I found in about 5 minutes:

F (U' B R' B) // EO, DR-2e5c (5/5)
(D L') // Change some corner orientations, DR-2e4c now (setup to one move) (2/7)
(R2 U L2 D' R2 U) // Setup pieces (6/13)
(L) // DR (1/14)

What the cube looks like now is what's actually referred to as "DR" or "Domino Reduction". Edge orientation is done, but also corner orientation and E-layer edges placed into the E-layer. It looks like you've already found the guide, but my guess is you didn't read far enough. Feel free to ask questions here anytime though!


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## WoowyBaby (Oct 2, 2019)

White KB said:


> I thought it was DR. Maybe you could do a *real* DR solve for that scramble?
> 'Cause I'm confused now...


DR stands for Domino Reduction which reduces the cube to the moveset R2, L2, U, D, F2, B2 (or rotations of that). Try it out, apply some moves within that moveset and you'll notice that white and yellow will always be on top and bottom. Domino Reduction (DR) is EO on two axis and CO on one.

Using your scramble, this is what I found:
F R F D F' // EO+SQ (5/5)
U R' // DR-4c2e (2/7)
F2 D' R2 U' R' // DR (5/12)

For more general info about Domino Reduction, see 'A Domino Reduction Guide' by Alexandros Fokianos & Tommaso Raposio. It's a really great resource and can help you solve to domino effectively, I highly recommend a read of it.


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## Jim Y (Oct 2, 2019)

Hello everybody，I have a few questions about DR.
*1.What should I do after I finish DR？*
such as：
R' U' F D' R2 F2 D' B2 D2 U B2 F2 U' L' D F D L2 B2 U R B2 F2 U' R' U' F
（F L' D' R2 B' R）//EO（6/6）
D2 F U F //DR（4/10）

R' U' F D U L2 U' R2 D' L2 B2 U' F2 L' F L D2 R B' F2 D' U' L F2 R' U' F
（R2 B' D） //EO（3/3）
（F' B' R） // （3/6）
B2 L2 F' B2 L B' L //DR（7/13）

R' U' F D2 F2 D' F2 U2 F2 L2 D2 F2 L2 R' D2 B U2 F R D2 R' B2 R' D2 R' U' F
（R2 U R D2 F' U2 B' D' B）//DR（9/9）

2.How to understand using middle layer insert to solve Edge cycle？

3.How can I better understand the formulas for 2e2e, 5e, 3e...or just memorize them？


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## Cale S (Oct 4, 2019)

19 tied pb single (3rd 19)

R' U' F B2 L2 B F2 R2 B' L2 D2 L2 R2 B' U R F U L U2 B2 U' F2 U R' U' F

U R2 F // EO
@ R2 D2 F2 D2 L U' // Domino 
R2 F2 R D2 R2 F2 L' D2 // 17 to 2e2e

@ = D2 F2 L2 U2 L2 F2 D2 R2 // 8-6 wth

Solution: U R2 F D2 F2 L2 U2 L2 D2 L U' R2 F2 R D2 R2 F2 L' D2 (19)


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## porkynator (Oct 4, 2019)

Jim Y said:


> Hello everybody，I have a few questions about DR.
> *1.What should I do after I finish DR？*
> such as：
> R' U' F D' R2 F2 D' B2 D2 U B2 F2 U' L' D F D L2 B2 U R B2 F2 U' R' U' F
> ...



1. There are different approaches, it depends on the situation. I think what is usually the best is to solve all corners and as many edges as possible, and finish with edge insertion. But this is not always easy.
Another common option is to do "blockbuilding" and try to finish directly or leave a few pieces unsolve, like in a normal solve.
I have tried your first scramble:

R' U' F D' R2 F2 D' B2 D2 U B2 F2 U' L' D F D L2 B2 U R B2 F2 U' R' U' F
（F L' D' R2 B' R）//EO（6/6）
D2 F U F //DR（4/10)

R2 U' F2 //One square and many pairs (3/13)
R2 [2] //2 other squares (1/14)

Up to here it was promising, but then I had to break some blocks to go on:

F2 L2 D' L2 [1] U B2 U2 //2e4e (7/21)

The skeleton is not incredibly good. But, as often happens with DR, the insertions are very nice:

[1] = L2 D2 L2 U2 R2 U2 (6-4/23)
[2] = R2 B2 U B2 R2 F2 D F2 (8-4/27)

Maybe later I will try the other two. If I do I will edit this post.

2. I assume you are referring to what they also call "slicey shenanigans" or "free slices". The way I see it is this: a move like M2 solves a 2e2e (double swap of edges) case (ignoring centers). Just like you solve 5c (5 corners) using 2 commutators, you can solve different cycles of edges (for example 2e4e etc) using this special "2e2e" cycles. When I insert a slice move like this, I try to always solve at least one more edge. If you do more than one insertion, the first ones tend to be easy and you can even cancel moves (you have more freedom), but for the last ones sometimes you are not lucky and you need setup moves. This is a solve I did last night:
R' U' F D' F2 L2 R2 U' R2 D2 L2 U2 F' R' U B' L' D' F' U' L2 U2 F R' U' F

B' R' L2 F U //EO (5/5)
(F2 L F2 L B' L2 B) //DR (7/12)
(R F2 R F2 R' B2) //7e (6/18)

Skeleton: B' R' L2 F U B2 R F2 [2] R' F2 R' B' L2 B [3] L' F2 L' [1] F2 [4]

[1] = S2 (2-2)
[2] = S2 (2-2)
[3] = S2 (2-1) (2e2e4x in 19)
[4] = [L2 U2 R: S2] (8) 

Solution: B' R' L2 F U B2 R B2 L' F2 L' B' R2 B' F2 L' F2 L' B2 R2 D2 L' F2 B2 R U2 L2 (27)

3. Some of the are easy to understand (for example commutators), but some others are hard to understand. There are many 2e2e cycles that I don't understand and I have just memorized (for example F2 L2 U R2 B2 L2 D R2), but sometimes I forget them 
I hope someone else has a better answer for this.


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## guysensei1 (Oct 4, 2019)

porkynator said:


> 3. Some of the are easy to understand (for example commutators), but some others are hard to understand. There are many 2e2e cycles that I don't understand and I have just memorized (for example F2 L2 U R2 B2 L2 D R2), but sometimes I forget them
> 
> I hope someone else has a better answer for this.



Instead of memorising these algs as separate cases I memorised them as a sequence of transformations from some "base" algs.

Here's an example, take this 3e alg:

R2 F2 L2 U B2 L2 F2 D

We can get another alg for the same case by doing:

R2 F2 L2 Uw B2 L2 F2 Dw

We can generate a 2e2e alg from here by doing:

R2 F2 L2 (U y2) B2 L2 F2 (D y2)

From here we can generate more algs by cyclic shifting (moving moves from the front to the end)

F2 L2 (U y2) B2 L2 F2 (D y2) R2
L2 (U y2) B2 L2 F2 (D y2) R2 F2


Of course after using these algs for a while I've gradually learnt how to do them directly instead of going through the transformation process, but it helped with learning.


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## UAmikey (Oct 6, 2019)

Is there any new FMC tech in the works at the moment, do you guys think? DR + slicey was a game changer, and so I can't imagine what could possibly come next. If I had to guess, I think that there could be something to do with Rniss and blockbuilding. Like maybe when you're halfway through blockbuilding and don't see what to do next, you could use Rniss to insert random moves to help. I know that you can already do that, but maybe there'd be some better version of doing that. Idk. What do you guys reckon?


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## WoowyBaby (Oct 6, 2019)

UAmikey said:


> Is there any new FMC tech in the works at the moment, do you guys think? DR + slicey was a game changer, and so I can't imagine what could possibly come next. If I had to guess, I think that there could be something to do with Rniss and blockbuilding. Like maybe when you're halfway through blockbuilding and don't see what to do next, you could use Rniss to insert random moves to help. I know that you can already do that, but maybe there'd be some better version of doing that. Idk. What do you guys reckon?


Hmmm... Maybe by attempting to analyze optimal solutions we can discover some patterns or something.? I really don't know what I'm saying tbh 
No one knows what the next "new FMC tech" will be. We will just have to wait and see what the future holds!


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## Jim Y (Oct 10, 2019)

porkynator said:


> 1. There are different approaches, it depends on the situation. I think what is usually the best is to solve all corners and as many edges as possible, and finish with edge insertion. But this is not always easy.
> Another common option is to do "blockbuilding" and try to finish directly or leave a few pieces unsolve, like in a normal solve.
> I have tried your first scramble:
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply
I feel "solve all corners" it's not easy for me.I'm ready to strengthen it through the 222 cube.Although I don't know if it's useful, haha.
So most of the time, I do "blockbuilding" after DR.
This is a solve I did
R' U' F U R2 D' B2 R2 U2 R2 D2 R' B' R2 B D2 L2 D' R2 D R F2 D' R' U' F
（U' L2 F'）//EO （3/3）
D R U R' D' //DR （5/8）
L' F2 //123 （2/10）
（D2 L D2 L' U2 R D2 R2 D2）//（AB3E）（9/19）
Skeleton：D R U R' D' L' F2 D2 R2 D2 R' # U2 L D2 L' D2 F L2 U
#：F2 L D2 F2 U2 R B2 U2 (8-2)
That's lucky, because most of the time I can't make an ideal skeleton


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## WoowyBaby (Oct 12, 2019)

I have an FMC challange for y'all:

According to cube20.org, this scramble is the hardest one out there- F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

What's the best result you can get on this?


Spoiler: My Attempt



Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

B L (R) // EO-4e (3/3)
(U B' D' L') // EO (4/7)
(U2 F') // Two Pairs (2/9)
F2 U' R2 U L2 U' F // DR (7/16)
L2 F2 D' L2 U' // HTR (5/21)
(F2 D2 L2 D2 L2 F2 * U2 L2) // AB2e2e (7/28)
*= (F2 L2 B2 L2 F2 R2) (6-4=2/30)

Solution: B L F2 U' R2 U L2 U' F L2 F2 D' L2 U' L2 U2 R2 F2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D2 F' U2 L D B U' R' (30)

Woah, only 30 moves? I was expecting a WAY worse result than that due to it being the hardest scramble ever! Maybe 34 or something??
At the beginning it was just daunting, but after the 7-move EO things were more or less normal. I'm really happy with this solve!


I do have to warn you, it can be frustrating. Have fun!


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## asacuber (Oct 13, 2019)

Just got a 23 to 3C with optimal being 8-0, at 16 spots. I tink @TheDubDubJr posted some similar bad luck 3c thing a while ago


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## WoowyBaby (Oct 13, 2019)

asacuber said:


> Just got a 23 to 3C with optimal being 8-0, at 16 spots. I tink @TheDubDubJr posted some similar bad luck 3c thing a while ago


Darn, that sucks. I think we all have our fair share of crappy 3c :/. For example in my pb mo3, I found a 14 TO 3C on the 2nd scramble, but I couldn’t find anything better than 8-1, and I just barely checked IF and 9 out of the 15 spots couldn’t cancel anything 


Spoiler: If you’re curious, here it is



Scramble: R' U' F U2 F' L2 R2 F' U2 F2 L2 U2 L2 F2 R' B2 D' L F R2 D' B' F' D' R' U' F

* D' // SQ
R F' L2 // p222 + 2P
R' B2 R2 B // EO
D L' // 223
R D' R' D2 // AB3c (14!!!)
*= B2 D F' D' B2 D F D' (7/21)


I also vaguely recall a solve where I had 21ish or so moves to 3c, and I couldn’t cancel any at all, optimal was 8-0 throughout the entire skeleton!! Although I don’t have proof of it, so I can’t confirm it.


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## guysensei1 (Oct 30, 2019)

Funny solve, FB weekly spoilers

R' U' F D2 F2 D' U' L2 R2 D F2 R' U2 R B2 D2 F U R2 B' D R2 F' R' U' F



Spoiler



R' F' R' D R B//EO (6/6)
R U2 R U L2 U'//DR (6/12)
L2 D2 L B2 ** R' *** F2 *//3e3e (6/18)

*=S2 (2-2/18)
**=E2 (2/20)
***=M2//3e (2-1/21)

R' F' R' D R B R U2 R U L2 U' L2 D2 L * B2 D2 U2 R2 L B2

*=L' D2 F2 U2 R' F2 D2 B2//what (8-8/21)

Final: R' F' R' D R B R U2 R U L2 U' L2 F2 U2 R' F2 U2 R2 L B2


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## xyzzy (Nov 11, 2019)

PB single in the weekly comp (wew late night FMCing).



Spoiler



Scramble 1. R' U' F D F2 R2 U2 F D2 U2 L2 B R2 D2 F' D' F U F2 L' B R D U B2 R' U' F
Solution (22): R' D2 R2 U2 F U' R U2 R' U F' U2 L' B D2 R U' R' D' R U R'

(D' B') // 123 (2/2)
(L R2 D2 R) // ab5c2e2e (4/6)

lolwut

skel: R' D2 R2 @ L' B D #
@ = U2 F U' R U2 R' U F' U2 // edges; ab3c (9/15)
# = D R U' R' D' R U R' // finish (8-1/22)

lolwut

A few other people found the same 6-move skeleton, lol. The edge thingy is a ZBLS alg (but not used as such here) that I learnt a few months ago and I probably should start using in speedsolves, but I can never quite distinguish that case from its mirror…


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## theos (Nov 17, 2019)

New AfR single set last weekend at OSU Blind Weekend:

Scramble: R' U' F D B2 L2 D F2 U2 R2 U F2 R B' L D' B2 R U R' D' U B' D2 R' U' F

EO F/B: @ F U' R B [4/4]
2x2x2: (R2 D2 L') [3/7]
2x2x3: (F D F') [3/10] - breaks EO
EO U/D: (U R U') [3/13]
AB5C: (B' # R2 B) [0/13]
Insert corners at @: U' B' U F U' B U F' [4/17]
Insert corners at #: (D2 R U2 R' D2 R U2 R') [6/23]

Solution: U' B' U F U' B U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 B U R' U' F D' F' L D2 R2 (23 moves)


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## ChrisCuber123 (Nov 17, 2019)

24.67 PR mean, second at FMC Americas, first sub 25 and first pure DR mean 

1. R' U' F U R2 F2 U F2 D' U2 R2 B2 D2 B D2 L2 R' U B2 U' L' D2 B R' U' F


Spoiler



(F' L') U D' L // EO
F' D' B' D // DR lol
(F L2 U2) // 2 sqs
B' U2 L2 D2 // solve stuff
F D2 F D2 F' D2 F D2 F2 // finish
final solution: U D' L F' D' B' D B' U2 L2 D2 F D2 F D2 F' D2 F D2 F2 U2 L2 F' L F (25)

Thoughts: this scramble sucked and I got lucky finding this 9 move DR and the stupid finish after



2. R' U' F U' L2 U B2 U F2 D' B2 U R F2 L' B' D L2 B2 U2 L U' R U' R' U' F


Spoiler



L' (R U' R) // EO
D' B2 U2 R2 D U2 F' // DR
U' D L2 // 222
(U' R2 U R2 U2 R2 U F2 U) // L3C
(U' F2 U B2 U' F2 U B2) // 5 cancel (should've seen this as a direct finish) (26)
Insert E and E' somewhere to give 24

Thoughts: If I had spent more time on the DR Cale used for his 22 on this scramble I probably would've seen the solution as well, but a 24 is fine too Wasn't focused for the first 40 mins of this attempt for some reason



3. R' U' F D2 U2 R2 F' D2 B' F R2 D2 B' D L' R U2 R' D R B' D' U' R' U' F


Spoiler



(B') B2 D2 B // EO
U R' (L2 F2 R2 U' L) // DR+sq
U2 * L2 U2 F2 U L2 U2 D2 * // solve corners
*: E2
B2 D2 B U R' ^ D2 R2 % U2 B2 U # R2 L' U R2 F2 L2 B
^: R U2 R' L F2 L' // 6-3 to 2e2e
#: U2 R2 L2 D2 R2 L2 // 6-4 to 3e
%: R2 B2 L2 D' B2 R2 F2 U' // 8-3
B2 D2 B U' R' L ~ F2 L' D2 B2 @ L2 D' B2 R2 F2 U B2 U' R2 L2 D2 L U R2 F2 L2 B
~: R L' x' // 2-5 bc U' x' F2 
@: L Lw'
final solution: B2 D2 B U Rw' D2 B2 L' Lw' D' B2 R2 F2 U B2 U' R2 L2 D2 L U R2 F2 L2 B (25)
These insertions definitely could've been done more efficiently lol

Found this skeleton near the end with no time to insert:
(B') B2 D2 B // EO
U R (L2 F2 R2 U' L) // DR+sq
(F2 R2 U B2 U2) // 2e4e
IF gives pretty easy 24

Thoughts: Going into this solve I really wanted PR mean so that definitely affected my mindset, kind of annoyed I didn't see the 2e4e skeleton until so late but whatever


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## Cale S (Nov 18, 2019)

24.33 winning mean at FMC Americas 2019



Spoiler: 26



R' U' F U R2 F2 U F2 D' U2 R2 B2 D2 B D2 L2 R' U B2 U' L' D2 B R' U' F

U' D' (U F' U) // EO
(D2 R') F2 R2 F' R' // Domino
(B' U2 R2 B2 U2) // OBL
B' R' F L' F2 R F' L F // PBL

U' D' F2 R2 F' R' B' R' F L' F2 R F' L F U2 B2 ^ R2 U2 B @ R D2 U' F U'
@ = S'
^ = S

Solution: U' D' F2 R2 F' R' B' R' F L' F2 R F' L F U2 Bw' B' R2 U2 Bw R D2 U' F U' (26)





Spoiler: 22



R' U' F U' L2 U B2 U F2 D' B2 U R F2 L' B' D L2 B2 U2 L U' R U' R' U' F

(B2 U L2 B) // EO
D2 L' B2 R' D L2 D' // Domino
R2 D2 L' D2 // CO
L F2 @ U2 F2 L' x2 // um what

@ = M2

Solution: D2 L' B2 R' D L2 D' R2 D2 L' D2 L F2 R2 L2 D2 B2 L' B' L2 U' B2 (22)

This can be reduced to 21 by inserting slices but I didn't have time





Spoiler: 25



R' U' F D2 U2 R2 F' D2 B' F R2 D2 B' D L' R U2 R' D R B' D' U' R' U' F

B' F2 D L2 F // EO
L U' D B2 U' R2 D' R' // Domino
F2 U' B2 U @ L2 D2 // 19 to 2e2e

@ = (F2 U Fw2 L2)2

Solution: B' F2 D L2 F L U' D B2 U' R2 D' R' F2 U' B2 U F2 U Fw2 L2 F2 U Fw2 D2 (25)


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## asacuber (Nov 20, 2019)

Can anyone help me with this start?

German forum comp (ongoing), scr 1



Spoiler



R' U' F L2 B2 D F2 D2 B2 L2 B' R F2 D' U' B2 R2 B' L U2 B' D' R' U' F 
(L F' B U)//EOsq
(L B2 R)//pieces

Also if someone could give me a nice domino reduction not with this EO, that would be really helpful  I'm trying to switch to full domino


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## irontwig (Nov 22, 2019)

So, I stumbled across a DR for this week's scramble on fewest-moves.info. I DNF'd, because a) I made some notation mistakes that took time to hunt down, and b) I'm not used to this style.



Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F D' L2 R2 D R2 D F2 L2 U2 F2 R U R' B2 L2 F' U2 R D B D R' U' F

D L (F' D R) //EO (5)
(U2 F2 U') //Oriented F2L (8)
(U F U' F U F2 U') //DR/OLL (12)
(F D2 B D2 F U2 B2 D2 B D2 F') //Leaving four edges (23)


D L F D2 B'.D2 B2 U2 F' D2 B* D2 F' U F2 U' F' U F U2 R' D' F

I didn't feel like doing two insertions, so I just did .=R D2 R2 D2 R2 D2 R for a 30 move total, IE finds *=F2 D2 F' B' L2 F B D2 for 27 moves and lastly CE finds a 13 move domino finish for a 25 moves.



Lastly two questions: How many 8 move 2e2e are there and how often do you manage to find optimal domino finishes?


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## guysensei1 (Nov 23, 2019)

23.33 tied AsR mean, kind of a fail but it's fine

1)22 moves

R' U' F D2 B R2 U2 B2 R2 B F2 L2 D2 B L R' D' B' R U2 R B2 F D2 R' U' F



Spoiler



F B R L' B//EO (5/5)
R' L D2 * B2 R' D'//DR (6/11)
R2 ** U2 F2 U2 F2 R' ***//3e+Mslice (6/17)

*=D2 L2 D2 B2 D2 L2 D2 B2 (8-5/20)
**=M (2-1/21)
***=M' (2-1/22)

Final: F B R L' B R' L' D2 B2 D2 L2 D2 R' D' R' L' B2 U2 B2 U2 L R2

I found this skeleton in the last 10 minutes so this was kind of stressful to insert



2)27 moves

R' U' F U2 F2 R2 D2 L' D2 L F2 L2 B2 L D' L B R F2 U R2 D' F' R' U' F



Spoiler



(L' D F2 R)//EO (4/4)
D2 F D' U B2 R2 D' F//DR (8/12)
B2 L2 U * F2 U L2 R2 D R2 D' F2//2e2e (11/23)

*=U2 R2 F2 U2 F2 R2 U2 F2 (8-4/27)

Final: D2 F D' U B2 R2 D' F B2 L2 U' R2 F2 U2 F2 R2 U' L2 R2 D R2 D' F2 R' F2 D' L

Last 10 minutes skeleton again. There were too many potential DR setups to check, Cale and Keng Foo showed me a 23 and 22 respectively after the attempt. Oh well



3)21 moves

R' U' F R' D2 U2 R2 U2 L R' D2 B' D' L' B' U F L D2 F R D2 R' U' F



Spoiler



D' B//EO (2/2)
D' L2 D R2 B2 U' R'//DR (7/9)
(L2 D2 B2)//222 (3/12)
(U2 L2 U * F2 L2 U')//2e2e (6/18)

*=(U2 L2 F2 L2 U2 F2 L2 F2) (8-5/21)

Final: D' B D' L2 D R2 B2 U' R' U F2 U2 L2 F2 L2 U L2 U2 B2 D2 L2

Lucky insertion on an easy scramble, I believe anyone who's comfortable with DR would be able to find this solution.


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 23, 2019)

This is kinda off topic, but should I do FMC at an upcoming comp? I've never done it successfully before (I did one for 20 mins, another for 30 mins, both were DNFs)


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## asacuber (Nov 23, 2019)

How would you express U2 F R2 U2 L2 B D2 L2 easier (as a cyclic shift, with wide moves etc)?


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Nov 23, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> This is kinda off topic, but should I do FMC at an upcoming comp? I've never done it successfully before (I did one for 20 mins, another for 30 mins, both were DNFs)


Absolutely! You get an hour to do it, so there’s no pressure and it’s really fun.


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## GAN 356 X (Nov 24, 2019)

ImmolatedMarmoset said:


> Absolutely! You get an hour to do it, so there’s no pressure and it’s really fun.


I would probably get a DNF or a 60 move solution. . Ill think about it


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## xyzzy (Nov 24, 2019)

asacuber said:


> How would you express U2 F R2 U2 L2 B D2 L2 easier (as a cyclic shift, with wide moves etc)?


U2 F R2 U2 L2 B D2 L2
replace the F/B moves with wide moves (this brings the moves in the first half and the second half to the same axes):
U2 b U2 L2 D2 f D2 L2
replace the L2 moves with wide moves (this brings the moves in the first half and the second half to the same faces):
U2 b U2 r2 U2 b U2 r2 = (U2 b U2 r2)2

Essentially the same type of 3-cycle as (R2 U' R2 f2)2 and (R2 u' R2 f2)2.



GAN 356 X said:


> I would probably get a DNF or a 60 move solution. . Ill think about it


Protip: Check your solution! Don't look at the cube when applying your solution; look only after you're done to check that your written solution really works.

Spending just a bit of time to check your solution drastically reduces DNF rates; it'd be kind of silly to spend an hour in an FMC attempt just to DNF it.


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## asacuber (Nov 24, 2019)

xyzzy said:


> U2 F R2 U2 L2 B D2 L2
> replace the F/B moves with wide moves (this brings the moves in the first half and the second half to the same axes):
> U2 b U2 L2 D2 f D2 L2
> replace the L2 moves with wide moves (this brings the moves in the first half and the second half to the same faces):
> ...



Thank you so much! I didn't even know the one marked in bold existed!


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Nov 24, 2019)

GAN 356 X said:


> I would probably get a DNF or a 60 move solution. . Ill think about it


I don’t think that matters. Just do your best, even if that is 80 moves, and you’ll be fine!


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## porkynator (Nov 25, 2019)

irontwig said:


> Lastly two questions: How many 8 move 2e2e are there and how often do you manage to find optimal domino finishes?



1. Good question! I am not sure. Right now I can think of:
a. (R2 F2 Rw2 U)*2
b. R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U2
c. R2 F B U2 F' B' R2 F2 (same case as b.)
+ all shifts. There may be more.
EDIT: for example there is also M E2 M E2

2. No idea, but I think not that often. It seems fairly easy to get close to optimal though. I have only just started doing DR consistently and I have never checked for the optimal solution.

Good to see you back by the way!


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## irontwig (Nov 25, 2019)

porkynator said:


> 1. Good question! I am not sure. Right now I can think of:
> a. (R2 F2 Rw2 U)*2
> b. R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U2
> c. R2 F B U2 F' B' R2 F2 (same case as b.)
> ...



Cool, I'd expect there would be more, but many not. I like the holistic approach of DR; much like EO you try to massage the whole cube into a more pleasant state. However, as I'm not good at it yet (neither finding reductions or finishes), I kinda find it taking away time from other approaches.


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## guysensei1 (Nov 26, 2019)

porkynator said:


> 1. Good question! I am not sure. Right now I can think of:
> a. (R2 F2 Rw2 U)*2
> b. R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U2
> c. R2 F B U2 F' B' R2 F2 (same case as b.)
> ...



[R2] (F2) R2 {U2} F2 [R2] (F2) {U2}

If you make a pair of moves in the same type of bracket wide, you get another alg for the same case

You can do this with more than one set of the bracketed moves too


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## trangium (Nov 28, 2019)

I got a 28 on the hardest scramble

Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

B' U2 // pair
(U' F U2) // square
(L') // pair
(B' R) // 2x2x2

Now, go on normal, and notice that at the beginning, we can insert R, R', or R2 without disturbing the 2x2x2.
Inserting R' there sets up the yellow-blue edge, so a 2x2x3 can be made in just two more moves.

R' B' U2 // pair + inserted R'
(U' F U2) // square
(L') // pair
(B' R) // 2x2x2
F2 D // 2x2x3

Now, go on normal, and notice that at the beginning we can insert D, D', or D2 without disturbing the 2x2x3.
Of those options, inserting D' gave the best continuation.

D' R' B' U2 // pair + inserted R' and inserted D'
(U' F U2) // square
(L') // pair
(B' R) // 2x2x2
F2 D // 2x2x3
D F D2 L2 D // bad 6c in 16

Skeleton: D' R' B' U2 F2 D2 F D2 L2 D R' B L U2 F' U ^
^ [U' F U, B2] (8-5/19)

D' R' B' U2 F2 D2 F D2 L2 D * R' B L U' B2 U' F' U B2
* [D', L' U L] (8-3/24)

D' R' B' U2 F2 D2 F D2 L U' L D L' + U L R' B L U' B2 U' F' U B2
+ [R' D' R, U] (8-4/28)

Solution: D' R' B' U2 F2 D2 F D2 L U' L D L' R' D' R U R' D L B L U' B2 U' F' U B2 (28 HTM)

*Edit: improved to 27*

R' B' U2 // pair + inserted R'
(U' F U2) // square
(L') // pair
(^ B' R) // 2x2x2
F2 D // 2x2x3

Now, go on inverse, and notice that at the ^, we can insert D, D', or D2 without disturbing the 2x2x3.
Of those options, inserting D' gave the best continuation.

R' B' U2 // pair + inserted R'
(U' F U2) // square
(L') // pair
(D' B' R) // 2x2x2 + inserted D'
F2 D // 2x2x3
(F' U' F' U) // EO + preserve pair
(F' L2 F2) // 3c1t in 19

Skeleton: R' B' U2 F2 D F2 L2 F U' F U * F R' B D L U2 F' U
* [U' F' U, B'] (8-6/21)

R' B' U2 F2 @ D F2 L2 F B' U' F U F B R' B D L U2 F' U
@ [F2, L B L'] (8-2/27)

Final solution: R' B' U2 L B L' F2 L B' L' D F2 L2 F B' U' F U F B R' B D L U2 F' U (27 HTM)


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## WoowyBaby (Nov 29, 2019)

trangium said:


> I got a 28 on the hardest scramble
> 
> Scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2
> 
> ...



WOW. I am *impressed*! You got 27 on the hardest scramble from cube20.org. I'm sure this must be the best anyone has gotten! My best is 30 which is nothing compared to this. You should be proud of yourself, good job!


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## WoowyBaby (Dec 1, 2019)

Hello Everyone! Today I have a number of fun little FMC related challenges!

1. Find the shortest solution you can: R' L2 F2 B2 F2 L' F2 R2 L2 B2 L R F' L F R' B' R F' L' F R' F2 R'
Optimal solution is extremely short! Can you find it?

2. Use slicey shenanigans to shorten this sequence!
D' F2 U2 D F2 U2 B2 D B2 D' L2 F2 D2

3. Find the shortest 3-corner skeleton possible!
U F2 U F2 R' F2 D R2 D R' L' U2 R2 B2 R' L' D2 F2 U2

4. Find a direct (no insertions) 8-move finish to this HTO state!
U D' L2 U' D R' L' D2 R U2 D2 R2 U2 D2 L' U2 D2

5. Orient all of the edges in just two moves!
D L2 B2 D R F2 R F' U2 B F' D' U2 R D U B' D2

Post your attempts / solutions here! I hope you have fun with these!


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## Cuberstache (Dec 1, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Hello Everyone! Today I have a number of fun little FMC related challenges!
> 
> 1. Find the shortest solution you can: R' L2 F2 B2 F2 L' F2 R2 L2 B2 L R F' L F R' B' R F' L' F R' F2 R'
> Optimal solution is extremely short! Can you find it?


R * L B L' R' // AB3C

* F L B L' F' L B' L' // Done (8-6)

Final: R F L B L' F' R' (7)


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## Theodor Nordstrand (Dec 1, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Hello Everyone! Today I have a number of fun little FMC related challenges!
> 
> 1. Find the shortest solution you can: R' L2 F2 B2 F2 L' F2 R2 L2 B2 L R F' L F R' B' R F' L' F R' F2 R'
> Optimal solution is extremely short! Can you find it?
> ...





Spoiler: My solutions



1. R F L B L' F' R'
2. D' F2 U2 D * F2 U2 B2 D B2 D' L2 F2 D2 **
*=E2
**=E2

Shortened version: D' F2 D' B2 U2 F2 D F2 D' L2 B2 U2

3. F2 D R D' R2 D' L2 D
4. R2 U2 L2 F2 D2 L2 D2 L2
5. L (R)


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## asacuber (Dec 7, 2019)

GL to everyone participating in fmc asia


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## porkynator (Dec 15, 2019)

My solves at FMC Germany (26.00, 24.67 = 25.33 mo6)




Spoiler: Round 1










Spoiler: Solve 1



Scramble: R' U' F D2 R2 D F2 U2 F2 R2 U' B2 U L U' B L2 R2 D L2 F D' R D R' U' F

U D' F R' B // EO (5/5)
R // Simplify (1/6)
D2 B2 R2 D // Setup (4/10)
R' U2 R // DR (3/13)
B2 L2 D' F2 [c] D // 3c2e2e (5/18)

[c] = F2 U L2 U' L2 [e] F2 D' L2 D L2 // Funny 3c alg (10-2/26)
[e] = L2 U2 F2 U2 L2 F2 U2 F2 // 2e2e (8-5/29)

First solution: U D' F R' B R D2 B2 R2 D R' U2 R B2 L2 <D' U L2 U F2 U2 L2 F2 {U2 D' L2 D L2 D}>

{} = U F2 D F2 U // First simplification, can also be seen with slices (-1/28)
<> = F2 D B2 D2 L2 F2 D R2 U F2 U // Second simplification, harder to see (-2/26)

Final solution: U D' F R' B R D2 B2 R2 D R' U2 R B2 L2 F2 D B2 D2 L2 F2 D R2 U F2 U (26)





Spoiler: Solve 2



Scramble: R' U' F U' B2 D L2 R2 D2 B2 F2 R' U2 B' L' B2 L' F' R B2 L2 D2 F R' U' F

R B U2 L //EO (4/4)
(D2 U2 F R2 B' U') //DR (6/10)
[2] R2 D2 F' [1] D2 F L2 B //Corners (7/17)

[1] = M2 (2/19)
[2] = F2 R2 F2 R2 [3] F2 R2 (6-2/23)
[3] = U' D R2 U D' F2 (6-3/26)

Solution: R B U2 L F2 R2 F2 R2 U' D R2 U D F' R2 L2 U2 B L2 F U B R2 F' U2 D2 (26)





Spoiler: Solve 3



Scramble: R' U' F D B2 F2 D' R2 D L2 D2 U' B2 F U R' D2 L' R2 D L' R F2 R' U' F

(B' R' D' L) // EO (4/4)
(F' U B') // Square + pair (3/7)
(F' R2) // Layer -1c (2/9)
(L2 U) B // F2L-1 (3/12)
(D B D2 B') // F2L (4/16)
(R' D2 R2 D R2 D R2 D2 R' D2) // LL (10/26)

Solution: B D2 R D2 R2 D' R2 D' R2 D2 R B D2 B' D' U' L2 R2 F B U' F L' D R B (26)








Spoiler: Round 2










Spoiler: Solve 1



Scramble: R' U' F U2 B2 L D2 B2 L' D2 F2 R' F2 L U' R B F2 L' R2 U' R U B R' U' F

R' F' B L' // EO (4/4)
D2 F // Simplify (2/6)
D' B2 D' B' // DR (4/10)
D L2 B2 U' L2 U D F2 * D' U // 3e (10/20)

* = F2 U' F2 R2 B2 D' B2 R2 (8-4/24)

Solution: R' F' B L' D2 F D' B2 D' B' D L2 B2 U' L2 D F2 R2 B2 D' B2 R2 D' U (24)





Spoiler: Solve 2



Scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 B' D2 F' U2 L2 R2 U2 F' D' R D2 R D2 U L B F D F2 R' U' F

B2 U // 2 squares (2/2)
D B' * L' B2 R2 // 223 (5/7)
F R U2 R' // F2L-1 (4/11)
F R' F' R F' U F' U' // 3c (8/19)

* = B' D F D' B D F' D' (8-1)

Solution: B2 U D B2 D F D' B D F' D' L' B2 R2 F R U2 R' F R' F' R F' U F' U' (26)





Spoiler: Solve 3



Scramble: R' U' F D2 B R2 F2 D2 R2 B D R2 D L D2 R2 U2 L' U R U' R' U' F

U' F' L2 D // EO (4/4)
L2 F2 L2 // Setup (3/7)
B R B // DR (3/10)
R' F2 R' * D2 R' L2 U2 // 3e (7/17)

* = R' F2 R D2 U2 L' B2 L D2 U2 (10-3/24)

Solution: U' F' L2 D L2 F2 L2 B R B R' F2 R2 F2 R D2 U2 L' B2 L U2 R' L2 U2 (24)


----------



## Cale S (Dec 23, 2019)

Solutions from Wiscube 2019



Spoiler: 25.33 mean






Spoiler: 27



R’ U’ F U’ L2 U B2 D B2 L2 B’ U’ R2 D’ R B’ R2 F2 U L’ U R’ U’ F

F L' F' U R // EO
B' D B' R2 D2 F U // DR
L2 F2 ^ L2 B % L2 F2 # @ R2 U2 F2 // 3c + S slice

@ = [U L U', R2]
^ = S'
% = S'
# = S2





Spoiler: 23



R’ U’ F L2 D F2 U R2 D F2 D’ B2 F2 L2 F’ R D F L2 D2 R’ U2 F R’ U’ F

@ L F U L U R2 B // 7 to 3c5e

@ = [F R2 F', L]

F R2 @ F' L F R2 U L U R2 B
@ = R2 D U' B2 # U ^ D'
^ = S'
# = R' U S U' R

lol 7 move skeleton, this scramble was insane
was hoping for better insertions for the 15 to 3e :/





Spoiler: 26



R’ U’ F D R2 D L2 U F2 U’ F2 U2 B2 L2 R D’ B L B U’ F’ R B2 R’ U’ F

(L F' R U2 B) // EO
(R' L) B2 L2 U' F2 U L // DR
@ D' U' L2 D' U2 L2 U2 // 20 to 6e

@ = B2 R2 B2 D R2 B2 R2 D








Spoiler: 24.00 mean






Spoiler: 25



U' B L F D' F2 L F R L F B2 U R2 D2 B2 R B2 L'

(U') ^ F2 D L' D' // EO
B' // sq
F2 R2 B2 // 222
D2 R F D2 R @ F' R2 // 16 to 5c

@ = [R' B R, F']
^ = [L' B' L, F2]





Spoiler: 22



R F' R' D' L2 D2 R U' R U' D2 B2 R' L2 U' B' R

(U' F' R' U2 B ) // EO
(L' R') R2 D' L' // DR
(U' L2 U) // HTR
R2 B2 // 15 to 6e
L' F2 U2 D2 B2 R D2 U2 // finish

first time using HTR officially 





Spoiler: 25



U L2 D' L' F L2 B2 L2 B2 R' D' R F' B' U' L F R'

R U B L F' // EO
L' @ D' R // layer missing corner
^ U2 D2 % L U' L' U2 // 14 to 3e + 2twist

@ = [L F L', B']
^ = L2 U D' B2 U' D
% = [U F U', B2]

Doing a different 6-2 edge insertion gives an 8-5 on 3c for 21 which can also be found by directly inserting an 8 move 3e3c. Would have made 22.67 mean  at least it wouldn't have been any kind of record and I've learned the 8 move case for the future


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## kawam1123 (Jan 4, 2020)

This is the first time for me to post a comment on this thread. I would llike to ask a question.

Now I'm working on the translation project for FMC tutorial by Sebastiano Tronto (@porkynator) into Japanese. I started the project last month just because I couldn't find any published Japanese translation of this splendid tutorial and would like to translate it for speedcubing community in Japan. The current progress is about 40%, though, I published the draft of the translation on my website.

I was wondering if FMCers here could tell me the source of great info about "good stars in FMC move counts" on the original tutorial (page 19). There is a table on the tutorial (like below) about a good start on the number of moves in FMC, which seems to have been posted on speedsolving.com thread (here?) by Erik Jernqvist. This table is awesome.


Type of BlocksNumber of Moves
2x2x1 square + corner/edge pair

3

2x2x2 block

4

Two 2x2x1 squares

5

2x2x3 block

9

F2L-1

14

F2L

17


However, I could not find any extra information about the table. I looked at the footnote related to the table, but there was no external link about the original post. I tried to search it in this thread, but could not locate it. I would like to know the original one and add a link on the Japanese edition so that future readers can access and validate the info.

The footnote was below:


> Taken from this post on speedsolving.com. Obviously, what a “good start” depends on your level. The given move counts are to be considered a good goal for someone who wants to become an expert. If you are not this good yet you can go on with less efficient blocks. Don’t waste too much time looking for a good start: it’s the final result that counts!



I hope some of the expert FMCers here could tell me where the original post is. Thanks in advance!

# I started learning FMC since last month and was impressed the tutorial. No official FMC record yet, but had a 35 moves at home, thanks to the tutorial!


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 5, 2020)

kawam1123 said:


> I hope some of the expert FMCers here could tell me where the original post is. Thanks in advance!


I can't believe I found it! That was one of the hardest searches for an old post I've ever done, even though it is actually in this thread (on page 42!).

That piece of gold comes from @irontwig, and his average movecounts for insertions in that post are also useful:








The FMC thread


Is there a website where I can find an explanation for the rules of FMC and how it works? Because I see all these things like premoves and insertions and other things I've never heard about, and I'd really like to know what it all means :) Cut n past from one of my previous posts ;-) For...




www.speedsolving.com





Unfortunately, I'm generally bad enough at FMC that it's a lucky solve for me when I meet these numbers. But it is a good thing to shoot for, and these days most good people actually usually beat it.


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## kawam1123 (Jan 5, 2020)

Mike Hughey said:


> I can't believe I found it! That was one of the hardest searches for an old post I've ever done, even though it is actually in this thread (on page 42!).



*I really appreciate your kind searching efforts!! I can't believe you found the original this quickly, too. *I'm relieved to hear it is actually in this thread. The table was originally posted on Jul 26, 2011, which means it was approx. 10 years ago. Amazing.

Again, it is an awesome table. I rarely meet this criteria, though. I wonder if these numbers of moves changed somehow in 10 years.

Thanks again!


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## WoowyBaby (Jan 6, 2020)

I am shocked. Today, just now. I got another 19 move single. I am so surprised.
Today, I started my practice solves with a 30, and then a 28, which are not very good, and then I got this. A 19.
This is my 3rd ever sub-20, which tied my personal record for the second time, at 19 moves.

This is the reconstruction:

1/5/2020 2:23 - Scramble: R' U' F U D F' L' U2 R B2 R D' F' R2 U2 L' D2 L F2 L' U2 L2 D2 F2 R' U' F

L D' B' R // EO + DR-4c2e (4/4) (This was by far the most crucial part)
R2 U' R2 B' // Domino (4-1=3/7)
R2 D' U' L2 // Blocks (4/11)
U D F2 U' R2 * // All But 3c (5/16)

*= R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2 U' (8-4=4/20)

L D' B' R' U' R2 B' [R2 D' U' L2 U D] F2 L2 {U' R2 U} L2 U'
Replace, [] -> R2 D2 B2 D2 (4-5=-1/19)
{} -> D' F2 D (3-3=0/19)

Final Solution: L D' B' R' U' R2 B' R2 D2 B2 D2 F2 L2 D' F2 D L2 U' (19)

I did use all of my hour of time. In fact, I finished writing the U' at about two seconds before my timer sounded, so it would really be an understatement to say it was a close call. It was really, really close.

At the beginning of the hour, I found some nice blockbuilding, a 2x2x3 in only 7 moves, but I couldn't find anything else. I spent way too much time trying to make it work. Although, before I found the 2x2x3, I noticed I did have only two bad edges for EO, but I dismissed it as they were on opposite corners on both regular and inverse scrambles.

Once I tried everything I could with the blocks, I returned back to the two edges, and I realized there were eight possible ways I could orient these edges in four moves, meaning that some ways are luckier than others, so I tried them and saw which gave the best domino reduction. This is a bit of a random note, but I would say that getting eight possible four move EOs is actually better than a single two move EO, because of the forced better continuation from one of them being better than others. anyway, I checked for domino on U/D and R/L, but I did not find an incredibly easy DR on R/L the same way I did on U/D, which, I thought for a second was 8 moves long, but it took me a second to realize the R's cancel so it is a 7 move domino. I'm not sure why I didn't see that straight away, and that's why it's written that way in the explanation.

Now, after domino, I found some way to get to 2e2e in only 19 moves, and I used the inverse scramble, NISS, and when I wrote out my skeleton, my 2e2e was set up right as the end of it perfectly, (exactly like the 3c insertion in my final solution) so it was what we call a "lol insertion", which easily resulted in a 25 move solution. If I ended the solve there, I would be satisfied by the fact that it is 25 moves, but I actually would not be satisfied because I would have felt that I sort of wasted my seven move domino. So, I continued my search for a better solution. (Spoiler alert, it was better than 25.)

Now, after domino, I noticed that R2 built a couple of pairs in one move. D' created two squares, but it was with the E-layer edges, which hardly even counts, all you should count is U/D, but I did anyway, but only because I knew fully that I could correct it with slicey shenanigans if needed, so I knew I was not wasting any moves at all. I then did U' L2, which easily intuitively led to U D F2 U' R2, which solved everything except for three corners.

Once I reached this point, I began my insertion immediately. Because I just got to AB3c, I was at the very end of my skeleton, which I'd be there anyway because I always search for all of my insertions starting from the end at working towards the beginning, anwyays, I immediately saw that a corner commutator interchange starts with R2, which means I already cancelled two, and my inserting sequence is U L2 U', which cancels an additional two moves. This is the exact moment I knew I had a 20 move solution.

20 moves. Incredible, I thought to myself. I was even shocked at that. Twenty moves is insane. Seriously. It really is such an outstanding result, and no one can deny that. Although, I still had just a couple minutes left. I don't know the exact amount, but it was definitely under four minutes, and probably under three. I got to work.

I looked at my skeleton and and figured out if, and where, I could reduce it. My eyes went directly to the R2 D' U' L2 U D, because it has two pairs of consecutive pairs of moves on the same axis, (either R/L, or F/B, or in this case, U/D) so I did the inverse of it and saw what I could do instead.
I tried R2 D2 B2 D2, and saw that it didn't solve everything, it left three of the middle slice of edges. I now had to search for where I could solve the 3e for free, so I was on the lookout for a pair of U/D moves connected by a double face turn that were going in opposite directions.
For example, U F2 D or D' L2 D, but not U F2 D' or D' L2 D2. This is the system that I had devised just from personal experience. It's not some crazy breakthrough or anything, just a little handy tip that saves time and effort, which is exactly what I needed.

I spotted U' R2 U, and I used rNISS, or whatever its called (is it?), to go directly to that point to see exactly what's going on.
This is the exact moment I knew I had a 19 move solution.
I applied the moves D' F2 D, which solved the cube, and I wrote down my final solution just in time:
Final Solution: L D' B' R' U' R2 B' R2 D2 B2 D2 F2 L2 D' F2 D L2 U' (19)

That, my friends, is my tied fewest moves record, explained.
I took over an hour to write this. Lmao. I'm so slow.
I am obviously very happy about this result. I'm done for today. This is amazing. Nineteen. Just wow.


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Jan 6, 2020)

WoowyBaby said:


> I am shocked. Today, just now. I got another 19 move single. I am so surprised.
> Today, I started my practice solves with a 30, and then a 28, which aren't particularly good, and then I got this. A 19.
> This is my 3rd ever sub-20, which tied my personal record for the second time, at 19 moves.
> 
> ...


25.66 mean gj


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## porkynator (Jan 6, 2020)

kawam1123 said:


> [...]
> Now I'm working on the translation project for FMC tutorial by Sebastiano Tronto (@porkynator) into Japanese. I started the project last month just because I couldn't find any published Japanese translation of this splendid tutorial and would like to translate it for speedcubing community in Japan. The current progress is about 40%, though, I published the draft of the translation on my website.
> [...]



Wow, nice job with the translation! The web version looks nice.
Just so you know, I am working on a version 3.0 and it should be ready in a matter of weeks 
But don't worry, your work will not be wasted: I have moved a few things and added some sections, but I haven't made many changes to the text that is already there.


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## kawam1123 (Jan 6, 2020)

porkynator said:


> Wow, nice job with the translation! The web version looks nice.
> Just so you know, I am working on a version 3.0 and it should be ready in a matter of weeks
> But don't worry, your work will not be wasted: I have moved a few things and added some sections, but I haven't made many changes to the text that is already there.



Thank you for your message! I really look forward to seeing a version 3.0. 

As for translation, it will not matter for me since the progress is less than a half yet. Thank you for your kindness. I’m planning to prepare a Japanese translation in PDF format after finishing the web version above in some ways. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mista (Jan 11, 2020)

L D2 U2 L U2 R2 U2 B2 R U2 F D' U B D' B' L2 D' U2

U2 F' L' F' U L' B L2 B2 (9 to 11E)

*Skeleton: *U2 F' L' F' U L' B ^ L2 B2
^=R U2 D2 L F2 B2 L2 (7-4)

*Skeleton:* U2 F' L' F' U L' * B R U2 D2 L F2
*=R U2 D2 L' F L U2 D2 R' B' (10-9)

*Skeleton:* U2 F' L' F' U L' & R U2 D2 L' F L2 F2
&=D R U2 D2 L' D' L U2 D2 R' (10-8)

*Skeleton:* U2 F' @ L' F' U L' D R U2 D2 L' D' F L2 F2
@=U2 D2 B' U2 D2 F (6-0)

*Skeleton: *U2 F' % U2 D2 B' D2 U2 F L' F' U L' D R U2 D2 L' D' F L2 F2
%=F' D2 F U2 D2 B' D2 B U2 D2 (10-9)

*Final Solution: *U2 F2 D2 F U2 D2 B' U2 F L' F' U L' D R U2 D2 L' D' F L2 F2 (22 moves)

Interesting... Requires a lot of focus on insertions.
What do you think about this method?


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## WoowyBaby (Jan 12, 2020)

mista said:


> L D2 U2 L U2 R2 U2 B2 R U2 F D' U B D' B' L2 D' U2
> 
> U2 F' L' F' U L' B L2 B2 (9 to 11E)
> 
> ...



It seems okay, but it is sightly worse than doing edges first and then doing 4 or even just 3 corner comms as insertions.

Edges first makes it so you don't need to memorize any special algs, beacuse you can always find optimal 8c or 7c with only corner commutators, so it is much simpler, so it is easier to get closer to optimal insertions than corners first.
And also just a random thing, you can use just slices to solve edges too.

Also, please note when you used Insertion Finder, because I am certain without a doubt that you did there. It's okay just for a simple demonstration, but please do not do this in a real attempt  (I have also seen you use it a couple times in the 3x3 example solve thread, but I know there's not really anything wrong with that so don't worry )

Perhaps I will give this a shot and see how I'll do, although probably not well :/ I like edges-first more 

Although, I know this can be a good way of solving because there have been very, very good FMCer's that have done this frequently, but I do not recall their names I'm sorry, but I know some have gotten great results with corners first. I'm just lazy lmao.


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## trangium (Jan 12, 2020)

My try at corners first:

Scramble: R' U' F D' F2 L2 U' B2 L2 B2 D2 B2 U' L' B R' B F' L' B2 D' B2 R U R' U' F (fewest-moves.info contest 190)
Solution: U D F2 B2 U' R D2 L' U B D' F B' L B' L2 F L2 R' D F' D' L (23 HTM)

U L U // corner layer (3/3)
U R' U' L U R U' L' // CLL (8-1/10)
B // solve corners (1/11)
z' y' // solve corners relative to scrambling orientation, leave 5e5e6x (0/11)

U L U2 R' U' L U [1] R U' L' B z' y'
[1] = U D' y' // 8e2x4x (2-1/12)

U L U2 R' [2] U' L U2 D' y' R U' L' B z' y'
[2] = U' D y // 5e1e6x (2-1/13)

U L U2 R' U2 D y L U2 D' y' R [3] U' L' B z' y'
[3] = R' L x // 6e4x (2-2/13)

U [4] L U2 R' U2 D y L U2 D' y' L x U' L' B z' y'
[4] = D F2 B2 z2 D' // 4e4x (4/17)

U D F2 B2 z2 D' L U2 R' D [5] U2 y L U2 D' y' L x U' L' B z' y'
[5] = B U' F B' z' U B' // Solved, was not expecting to get this lucky (6/23)


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## WoowyBaby (Jan 20, 2020)

~Cale Schoon's 21.00 FMC World Record Mean~


Spoiler



Copied from: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mHLEa9brUp5kLMPcD14fnQfa4PMJaouRBSPRgqtFY2Y/edit
Check out the full document above that includes Cale's written comments as well.


Spoiler: #1 - 23



Scramble: R' U' F D' B2 R2 D U2 R2 U B2 R' U' B2 F' L' F2 U' B2 F2 R' B2 U' R' U' F

L2 F // EO
D R2 B2 D' R' // Domino in 7
F2 // pairs
B2 R2 // sq + more pairs
D // pseudo 223
(B2 D' F2) // 223 with inserted B2
(U2) // 15 to 3e3c + E slice

L2 F D R2 B2 D' R' @ F2 B2 R2 D U2 F2 D B2
@ = R2 U' ^ R2 // to J perm + E slice
^ = U L2 F2 U F2 U' F2 D F2 D' L2 // J perm

L2 F D R2 B2 D' R L2 F2 U F2 U' F2 D F2 D' [L2 R2 F2 B2 R2] D U2 F2 D B2
Replace brackets with F2 B2 L2

L2 F D R2 B2 D' R L2 F2 U F2 U' F2 D F2 D' ^ F2 B2 L2 D U2 @ F2 D B2
@ = E
^ = E' // solve E slice

Solution: L2 F D R2 B2 D' R L2 F2 U F2 U' F2 D F2 U' R2 L2 F2 U' F2 D B2 (23)





Spoiler: #2 - 18



Scramble: R' U' F U2 B D2 B F2 R2 F D2 B D' B U F2 D' R' F2 U2 R' F' R' U' F

F D' // sq
(F' D B F2 L') // 223
B U' B // EO
(U' B2) // sq
(L U L' U B2 U) // wth finish

Solution: F D' B U' B U' B2 U' L U' L' B2 U L F2 B' D' F (18)





Spoiler: #3 - 22



Scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 B' D2 L2 B L2 U2 B' D' F' L' B F2 D L R B2 F2 R' U' F

L' B R' U F' // EO
(D2 F2 L2 U' L') // Domino
(D' R2 U2 D F2 U' D2) // 17 to 3e

L' B R' U F' D2 U F2 D' U2 R2 D @ L U L2 F2 D2
@ = D2 B F' R2 F B'

Solution: L' B R' U F' D2 U F2 D' U2 R2 D' B F' R2 F B' L U L2 F2 D2 (22)





Amazing job Cale! Such a big jump in the mean record, I can hardly believe this! Nice personal best single too!


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## Tommy Kiprillis (Jan 25, 2020)

22.67 OcR mean solutions. #4WR

25, 20, 23 = 22.67

1: R' U' F D2 F2 D2 U2 R D2 L' R2 F2 R2 B2 F' L2 D' R F U' R' D L F' R' U' F

25

(U' B) L' D F' // EO
L // 2 squares
U D2 (D') // 223
D' L D L F2 U L' U' // 16 to 2c2c

L' D F' L U D L ^ D L F2 U L' U' D B' U 

^ - L U2 R' D2 B2 R U2 L' D2 F2 (25)

Comment: Optimal feasible insertions, IF gives 24 but it does an 8-6 at the end to create a different 2c2c but it's in 18, giving 11-5 on a H Perm. I also had a 10 move DR on this scramble that is +13 optimal but it doesn't seem feasible whatsoever. 

Solution: L' D F' L U D L2 U2 R' D2 B2 R U2 L' D2 F2 D L F2 U L' U' D B' U (25)

2: R' U' F L2 R B2 L D2 F2 U2 L2 R' D' F2 R U L' F R' B' L U' F2 R' U' F

20

U2 D' F' D // EO w/ inserted U2
B U2 B L // DR (8)
D2 F' B' L2 ^ B L2 B L2 // 16 to 3e3e

^ - U2 D2 F' U2 D2 B (21)

U2 D' F' D B U2 B L D2 F' B' ^ L2 U2 D2 F' U2 D2 B2 L2 B # L2 

^ - F' B z
# - B' Bw (20)

Comment: Optimal after DR is + 11 if you make the L an L'. It seems somewhat feasible using HTR, despite the DR already being DR-2e4c (as optimal adds two moves to create HTR-4e4c then switches).

Solution: U2 D' F' D B U2 B L D2 F2 z L2 U2 D2 F' U2 D2 B2 L2 Bw L2 (20)

3: R' U' F L' R' B2 R2 F2 D2 B2 L' U2 R2 U' L' B F2 R2 U' L2 B L' F2 R' U' F

23

R (B2 D' F R) // EO
(B D2 B2 R2 B U') // DR (11)
(L2 D2) // lol what
(F' L2 D2 B2 R2 B' R2 B R2 B') // Finish (23)

Solution: R B R2 B' R2 B R2 B2 D2 L2 F D2 L2 U B' R2 B2 D2 B' R' F' D B2 (23)

Comment: I found this about 20 minutes in. There's +5 moves to HTR if you switch after DR but I didn't see it because I outright forgot about checking HTR-6e4c.


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## guusrs (Jan 31, 2020)

WoowyBaby said:


> ~Cale Schoon's 21.00 FMC World Record Mean~
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Congratz Cale!
Good to see you can mix old techniques (NISS) and new techniques (DR) perfectly


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## Robert-Y (Feb 5, 2020)

Hello, I am running a FMC tournament (mostly battle royale style). If you are interested in participating, please join this facebook group and you'll easily find my posts with details on this tournament. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422080808012720/

So far we have 20 participants, and I'm hoping to boost this to 50+


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## WoowyBaby (Feb 6, 2020)

Wow! An FMC tournament would be so much fun! I'll be sure to join, thank you for posting this on the SS forums.


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## xyzzy (Mar 28, 2020)

Superflip with an empty skeleton and two insertions:

Skeleton: @ #
@ = D L R F B U D L R F B U // flip eight edges (12/12)
# = M2 [M2 F2 M' F2, U'] M2 // flip the other four edges (14/26)

Final solution (26): D L R F B U D L R F B U F2 L R' D2 F' D2 L' R F2 L2 R2 D L2 R2

Spent some nonzero amount of time trying (and failing) slicey shenanigans for the 4-flip.


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## mista (Apr 2, 2020)

Is this ZZ data true?


ZZ METHOD
*Step 1 – EOline*
max. 9
avg. 6.127

*Step 2 – ZZF2L*
max.
<R,U,L> 13
<U,D,R,L> 12
<U,D,R,L,F2,B2> 11
avg.
<R,U,L> 9.6922
<U,D,R,L> 9.0241
<U,D,R,L,F2,B2> 8.4048

*Step 3 – LL (ZBLL)*
max. 15
avg. 12.08

*Overall movecount:*

max. 9 + 11 + 15 = *35 + *_AUF_
avg. 6.127 + 8.4048 + 12.08 = *26.6118 + *_AUF_


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## WarriorCatCuber (Apr 2, 2020)

mista said:


> Is this ZZ data true?
> 
> 
> ZZ METHOD
> ...


I dunno man, getting a 13 move ZZF2L is super rare and lucky.


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## brododragon (Apr 2, 2020)

How should I approach FMC. In other words, what order should I learn what from where?


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## Cubinwitdapizza (Apr 2, 2020)

brododragon said:


> How should I approach FMC. In other words, what order should I learn what from where?


Block building, the commutators, NISS, insertions, DR, slicy shenanigans? If you want to get really good learn DR and slicy but if you just want a basic understanding g, the first 4


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## WoowyBaby (Apr 2, 2020)

mista said:


> Is this ZZ data true?
> 
> 
> ZZ METHOD
> ...



ZZF2L doesn’t take 8.4 moves on average to solve optimally.
I can prove this wrong with an analysis if you want.

Edit: Perhaps did you grab the average left block movecount in ZZ from somewhere instead of both blocks/all of F2L? That might explain it.

You are correct on the EOline and ZBLL average numbers of 6.13 and 12.08. Good job.

Although, in realistic speedsolves, I’d say they take ~8 and ~15 moves respectively.
I’m not sure if you are concerned about speedsolves here though.


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## xyzzy (Apr 3, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> 5×5×5 FMC UWR(?) single, *127 moves*.
> 
> I knew Cale's 147 listed on the wiki would be very easy to beat—I already had a 146 two years ago (with 37 moves 3×3×3 stage), so the 147 technically wasn't even UWR. Hitting 55-60 moves for centres and edge pairing (each) in a linear solve is also pretty easy, so realistically I was aiming for 140-ish moves (55+55+30=140). I set a 2.5-hour time limit before I started, but I ended it after about 1:45 because I got bored.



126 moves now. (Submitted this for the All WCA puzzles FMC competition.)



Spoiler



scramble:
Lw2 R2 D2 U2 Bw' U2 R' Lw L' F Rw' D2 Dw2 Lw' D' L' B' Rw' R Lw Uw' Rw2 R2 U' L' Rw2 F2 Bw Uw2 Dw F' D' U' R2 Bw R D' Rw' D' B2 Bw2 Lw2 B2 F2 L Dw F2 Bw D2 Dw2 B' Fw Uw2 B' L2 U' B' L2 Fw2 B

Final solution (126):

R' Uw' F' L' Dw2 B' Uw L Uw
Dw F' Dw2 F2 Dw
Fw2 Rw' F Rw U' Bw'
D' Fw2 D2 Fw Rw F2 Rw'
D' Fw' R U' Bw' D' Fw2 U' D Bw'
Fw' U' Fw U2 Fw2
L' Bw' U2 Fw L' Bw L

Bw L F L' Bw' L B L'
Fw2 D F D' Fw
Dw' R' D2 R Dw
U2 D2 B Lw2 Rw2 B2 Lw2 Rw2
L2 Bw D F' R' D' R Bw'
F Uw' L' U2 L Uw
Bw2 B R B' R' Bw2

B' R' B' D2 B R' F R B' R2
F' R2 F R2 F L F' R' F L'
D R' D' F2 D R' U L B L
B

-----

// centres (49)
R' Uw' F' L' Dw2 B' Uw L Uw // blue
Dw F' Dw2 F2 Dw
Fw2 Rw' F Rw U' Bw'
D' Fw2 D2 Fw Rw F2 Rw' // green
D' Fw' R U' Bw' D' Fw2 U' D Bw'
Fw' U' Fw U2 Fw2 // red
L' Bw' U2 Fw L' Bw L // comm magic

// edge pairing (46)
Bw L F L' Bw' L B L' // 3 wings
Fw2 D F D' Fw // 7 wings
Dw' R' D2 R Dw // 9 wings
U2 D2 B Lw2 Rw2 B2 Lw2 Rw2 // 15 wings
L2 Bw D F' R' D' R Bw' // 19 wings
F Uw' L' U2 L Uw // 21 wings
Bw2 B R B' R' Bw2 // 24 wings

// 333 (31)
B' R' B' D2 B R' F R B' R2
F' R2 F R2 F L F' R' F L'
D R' D' F2 D R' U L B L
B

333:
(B' L' B' L' U' D') B' R' B' D2 // 223 (10/10)
(D R D' F2 D R D' F') // pF2L-corner (8-2/16)
B R' F R B' R2 F' R2 F R // edges; ab3c (10/26)
R F L F' R' F L' F' // corners (8-3/31)

Reduction was 6 moves better than my previous 127-move attempt (95 versus 101), but threebythree was 5 moves worse (31 versus 26). Also found a one-move-shorter reduction (94 moves) but I was stuck on the threebythree for that (27 to 3c, 2 moves cancelling on the insertion, 33 moves total).


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## mista (Apr 3, 2020)

WoowyBaby said:


> ZZF2L doesn’t take 8.4 moves on average to solve optimally.
> I can prove this wrong with an analysis if you want.




I asked this question based on ZZ, because I had such data, but this was not the subject of my search. I just wanted to know how you would argue with your sentence. I guess you do the analysis using Kociemba Algorithm, yet I am not sure.

Could you show me correct values of average ZZF2L optimal solution (and mostly how you find them) instead of fake my data (however it is interesting too).

I will be thankful.


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## asacuber (Apr 10, 2020)

cubers.io scramble 2, couldnt find much. help?



Spoiler



R' U' F U L2 R2 U F2 U' L2 D F2 R2 U R' B' L2 U B L2 F D2 U' L' R' U' F


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## trangium (Apr 11, 2020)

asacuber said:


> cubers.io scramble 2, couldnt find much. help?
> 
> R' U' F U L2 R2 U F2 U' L2 D F2 R2 U R' B' L2 U B L2 F D2 U' L' R' U' F





Spoiler



D' B' R U // EO (4/4)
B R2 B // 2x2x2 (3/7)
B' L B D2 L2 D2 L // 7c (7-2/12)
Optimal 26


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## asacuber (Apr 14, 2020)

trangium said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



thanks! i found a 13 to 7c from the same start but insertions were really bad for that one.



and sorry if im spamming the thread with my queries, but weekly comp scr 1:


Spoiler



R' U' F B2 L' R B2 U2 L D2 R' F2 D2 L2 D' L2 D B F D' L2 F L2 R' U' F 
i had a hard time with this, however i found:
U R L' B' D' L U2 F2 U2//EO and blocks
and i would also appreeciate it if someone could tell me how to proceed from this CO, as im very inexperienced in that stuff
(L B L')/(R B R')//CO


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## WoowyBaby (Apr 14, 2020)

asacuber said:


> R' U' F B2 L' R B2 U2 L D2 R' F2 D2 L2 D' L2 D B F D' L2 F L2 R' U' F
> i had a hard time with this, however i found:
> U R L' B' D' L U2 F2 U2//EO and blocks
> and i would also appreeciate it if someone could tell me how to proceed from this CO, as im very inexperienced in that stuff
> (L B L')/(R B R')//CO



U R L' B' D' L U2 F2 U2 // EO + Blocks (9)
(L2 F B * R B2 U2 B R2 B R') // All But 3C (19)
*= (B' D' B U B' D B U') (8-2=6/25) All Done

Final Solution: U R L' B' D' L U2 F2 U2 R B' R2 B' U2 B2 R' U B' D' B U' B' D F' L2 (25)

(L B L') // CO
(B2 D R) // EO
(U R2 L2 U' B) // Domino in 11

Optimal is +14, giving 25 in total. CE says: L2 U2 B2 D' B2 R2 D2 L2 D' L2 U R2 U' L2 [14]


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## intuition chapadoya (May 13, 2020)

what about lmcf corners first?


edit:forgive my brevity, i never realized the unfair disadvantage the wca imposed on corners first methods.


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (May 13, 2020)

intuition chapadoya said:


> what about lmcf corners first?


Well this is here now so to answer your question 
there is no one method you should use for FMC except maybe DR my advice is learn eo, blockbuilding, niss and insertions which jperm and speedcubereview have good tutorials on and if you want to get really good learn DR
if you don’t want to learn fmc techniques I would still advise against corners first methods as they tend to contain lots of slice moves which are generally bad for fmc as they are counted as 2 moves


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## intuition chapadoya (May 13, 2020)

AlphaCuber is awesome said:


> Well this is here now so to answer your question
> there is no one method you should use for FMC except maybe DR my advice is learn eo, blockbuilding, niss and insertions which jperm and speedcubereview have good tutorials on and if you want to get really good learn DR
> if you don’t want to learn fmc techniques I would still advise against corners first methods as they tend to contain lots of slice moves which are generally bad for fmc as they are counted as 2 moves


oh my, thank you. i never knew. i will change now. also, are rotations counted?


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## AlphaCuber is awesome (May 13, 2020)

intuition chapadoya said:


> oh my, thank you. i never knew. i will change now. also, are rotations counted?


iirc they are counted for the 80 move limit but not for your result.
also you shouldn’t double post just say everything in one message.


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## WarriorCatCuber (May 13, 2020)

If you want a fixed method for FMC, I would recommend Heise or SSC


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## Cale S (May 22, 2020)

first 18 at home 

R' U' F L2 D U2 L2 D L2 B2 D R2 F2 R2 U B R2 B' U2 R' F' U R D R' U' F 



Spoiler



R (R) // EO
(U D B U' B) // DR (7)
U' B2 U2 B2 L2 U // HTR (13)
R2 D2 B2 R2 F2 // finish 

Solution: R U' B2 U2 B2 L2 U R2 D2 B2 R2 F2 B' U B' D' U' R' (18)


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## hopelessdove (May 22, 2020)

Weirdest way to end a solve I have ever found:
R' U' F L2 U2 L2 B' F' L2 B2 U2 L B' R2 U B2 D' R2 F D' B2 L B R' U' F



Spoiler



L' B' U F2 // ps223 (4/4)
(F B D' B') // 223+EO (4/8)
(D2 L' D L2 D) // 3tc3e (5/13)

Skeleton: L' B' U F2 D' L2 D' L D2 B D B' F' *
* : R' B' D2 B' D' B D' B' D2 B2 R // done (11/24)
The ending is just setting up to U2+Sune


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## xyzzy (May 29, 2020)

A mediocre? terrible? first attempt at DR. Went well over an hour too. :/

Scramble: F L2 B' D2 R2 F D2 B' L2 U2 B' D' U B' R' F U F' L D' B2
(U R2 D' L D') // belt (5/5)
(L2 F B' D' F' B') // EO (6/11)
(R @ D L' D' L2 D L' D') // CO (8/19)
(U2 L' U2 R B2 D2 R F2 L' F2 L2) // corners; ab2e2e (11/30)
@ = (R B2 D2 B2 D2 B2 D2 R') // 2e2e (8−1/37)
Solution (37): L2 F2 L F2 R' D2 B2 R' U2 L U2 D L D' L2 D L D' R D2 B2 D2 B2 D2 B2 R2 B F D B F' L2 D L' D R2 U'

Will probably mess more with the scramble later.


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## WoowyBaby (May 29, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> A mediocre? terrible? first attempt at DR. Went well over an hour too. :/
> 
> Scramble: F L2 B' D2 R2 F D2 B' L2 U2 B' D' U B' R' F U F' L D' B2
> (U R2 D' L D') // belt (5/5)
> ...



You can insert your 2e2e in a different spot to get a *6-4* (!!!) giving 32 final!

@= (B2 D2 B2 D2 B2 D2) // 2e2e (6-4/32)
Solution (32): L2 F2 L F2 R' B2 D2 B2 D2 R' U2 L U2 D L D' L2 D L D' R' F B D F' B L2 D L' D R2 U'

Getting a 2e2e insertion this lucky is incredibly rare, by the way. I'm wondering, how you didn't see this?? Did you not check your whole skeleton or something? You missed out on this awesomeness.

That is a pretty good first DR attempt overall! I'm glad you know that working on solving the corners after DR is a good thing to do. Keep that up ^^

As for getting to DR, you did it in a pretty _interesting _way. Lol. Cool.
Generally, people get to DR by doing this:
EO -> Reduce to 4c4e, 4c2e, or 3c2e (the number of corners and edges that are not DR'ed / misoriented) -> Set up to the trigger using domino moveset -> Apply one of these short triggers, R, R U2 R', or R U* R' respectively, and now you have DR in about 12 moves (instead of 19).
Here is a good resource for DR- https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DSvekOdhadXyZg60-0felZIMELfTs_XP/view?usp=sharing

Also, there is a Fewest Moves Facebook group that you can post cool solutions or ask for help and advice or participate in challenges and it's a pretty active community, unlike here on speedsolving.com. I invite you come take a look, and good job on venturing into DR territory for the first time!


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## xyzzy (May 30, 2020)

WoowyBaby said:


> I'm wondering, how you didn't see this??


Trying to do FMC at 4 am probably explains a lot. I actually did the 2e2e first, which led to a standard last slot + T perm finish, then I guess I tunnel-visioned when I removed the 2e2e and tried to insert it somewhere else.

I'm pretty bad at EO starts in general and I didn't really manage to find anything useful starting with EO. (Yet? Still working on it!)

---
edit:

Same scramble, but with a more sensible 13 DR now. Really struggled with trying to figure out how to set up the 4c2e; the domino solve was just blockbuilding (instead of corners first because I couldn't figure out how to do that without too many moves).

(U R) F L' // EO (4/4)
U B // to 4c2e (2/6)
(U B2 L2 R2 U2 D F) // DR (7/13)
F2 D' R2 D' U L2 U2 F2 U F2 L2 // ab2c2e (11/24)
Skeleton: F L' U B F2 D' R2 U D' L2 U2 F2 U F2 L2 F' D' U2 @ L2 R2 B2 U' R' U'
@ = D R D' L D2 R' D R D2 R' L' // J perm (11−4/31)
Solution (31): F L' U B F2 D' R2 U D' L2 U2 F2 U F2 L2 F' U2 R D' L D2 R' D R D2 L R B2 U' R' U'

DR too hard for me, time to go back to ZBLL magic


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## Cale S (Jun 15, 2020)

3rd 18 pb single 

R' U' F L F' U2 F' U2 B2 L2 F2 R2 U' L F2 L' R' B' F2 U R' U' F

(F') F' // EO
(D' R' U2 L) // DR (6)
D' F2 R2 L2 D' // HTR (11)
U2 F2 R2 F2 L2 U2 R2 // finish

Solution: F' D' F2 R2 L2 D' U2 F2 R2 F2 L2 U2 R2 L' U2 R D F (18)


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## brododragon (Jun 15, 2020)

Cale S said:


> (F') F' // EO


I'm a noob at FMC, so why can't you convert that to F2?


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## fun at the joy (Jun 15, 2020)

brododragon said:


> I'm a noob at FMC, so why can't you convert that to F2?


The scramble has 4 bad edges on F/B but they are in a pretty bad spot.
(F') - (which is F' on the inverse scramble) orients 2 edges + misorients 2 edges leaving 4 bad edges (but in a different spot)
When switching back to the normal scramble, all 4 bad edges are on the F face, F' orients them.

Remember that (F') F' is obviously not the same as F' F' and therefore not F2 (which wouldn't orient any edge btw)


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## brododragon (Jun 15, 2020)

fun at the joy said:


> The scramble has 4 bad edges on F/B but they are in a pretty bad spot.
> (F') - (which is F' on the inverse scramble) orients 2 edges + misorients 2 edges leaving 4 bad edges (but in a different spot)
> When switching back to the normal scramble, all 4 bad edges are on the F face, F' orients them.
> 
> Remember that (F') F' is obviously not the same as F' F' and therefore not F2 (which wouldn't orient any edge btw)


Okay, that makes sense.


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## hopelessdove (Jun 21, 2020)

PB single! This is from the current FMC Weekly Contest



Spoiler: DR ahead



Scramble: R' U' F U2 L2 U' L2 D F2 R2 U' B2 R2 B' D2 L B' D' B2 F' R2 U R' F2 U2 R' U' F 

(F') U L B // EO (4/4)
(D L' R2 U D R2 U' R) // DR (8/12)
(D' L2 R2) // 123 (3/15)
L2 U' B2 // blocks (3/18)
U' F2 U' F2 y2 // 4x (4/22)

Skeleton: U L B [L2 U' B2 U' F2 U' F2 y2 R2 L2 * D] R' U R2 U' D' R2 L D' F
([]=DR part)

* : R2 L2 U D' F2 B2 U D' y2 // done (8-6/24)

Solution: U L B [L2 U' B2 U' *** F2 U' F2 ** U D' F2 B2 U] R' U R2 U' D' R2 L D' F

** : U' D y (2-4/22) 
*** : U D' y' (2-2/22)

Final solution: U L B L2 U' B2 D' L2 U' L2 F2 B2 U R' U R2 U' D' R2 L D' F (22)


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## fun at the joy (Jul 12, 2020)

I didn't do badly in FMC for once and got 6th at Cubing at Home 1.2 on Saturday


Spoiler: Background Story



Ok so the last proper FMC attempt I did was in late April/early May (calendar week 18) and I've been struggling with FMC since March so I didn't expect to much going into this. Additionally there were less than 3 hours left when I realized that FMC was going on.
Because I mainly focused on finishing the attempts in time (I had 50mins left for the 3rd attempt) I pretty much felt no pressure after the 25 and 26. My PB Mo3 was 28.67 so I basically only had to not DNF the 3rd attempt. Luckily the 3rd attempt was a pretty good one too so I got a 26.00 PB Mo3!
Only the 2 World Champions, the WR holder, James and AJ beat me so that was pretty epic.





Spoiler: 26.00 Mo3






Spoiler: 25



R' U' F U' R2 U' L2 U2 F2 R2 F2 L D2 B' L B' D2 R B D R' D R' U' F

L2 B U2 L // EO
D2 F2 L2 U2 D’ B’ // DR
L2 B2 // 222
(D2 R2 D2 F2) // 223
(R2 D’) // AB3C

L2 B U2 L D2 F2 L2 U2 * D’ B' L2 B2 D R2 F2 D2 R2 D2
* U B2 U’ F2 U B2 U’ F2

L2 B U2 L D2 F2 L2 U’ B2 U’ F2 U B2 U’ F2 D’ B' L2 B2 D R2 F2 D2 R2 D2





Spoiler: 26



R’ U’ F L’ D F2 U2 F’ D B U2 R2 D2 L2 U2 L F2 R2 L B’ L F R’ U’ F

D L (U B’ L) // EO
(D2 L2 B2) // p222
(U F U’) // p223
D F’ D’ F U2 // pF2L-1
F D2 F’ D U // AB3C

D L D F’ D’ F U2 * F D2 F’ D U2 F’ U’ B2 L2 D2 L’ B U’
* R’ B R F R’ B’ R F’

D L D F’ D’ F U2 R’ B R F R’ B’ R D2 F’ D U2 F’ U’ B2 L2 D2 L’ B U’





Spoiler: 27



R' U' F L2 U F2 B R B R' F D2 L2 F' R2 F' R2 D2 B2 D B2 U R' U' F

D’ F U’ B // EO
(R U’ R) // 123
U’ L’ U2 (U’) // 223
R’ D’ R’ // F2L-1
D2 F D’ F’ D2 F D’ F’ D’ // AB3C

D’ F U’ B U’ L’ U2 R’ D’ R’ D2 F * D’ F’ D2 F D’ F’ D’ U R’ U R’
* F’ D B D’ F D B’ D’

D’ F U’ B U’ L’ U2 R’ D’ R’ D’ B D’ F D B’ D2 F’ D2 F D’ F’ D’ U R’ U R’


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## Silky (Aug 13, 2020)

What are the best alg sets to learn for FMC?


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## guusrs (Aug 15, 2020)

Silky said:


> What are the best alg sets to learn for FMC?


no alg sets needed for FMC


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## Silky (Aug 15, 2020)

guusrs said:


> no alg sets needed for FMC


I understand that. However, that doesn't answer my question.


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## WarriorCatCuber (Aug 15, 2020)

Silky said:


> What are the best alg sets to learn for FMC?


Stuff like ZBLL I guess? But everything should be done intuitively, with no algs.


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## trangium (Aug 15, 2020)

Silky said:


> What are the best alg sets to learn for FMC?


Because of the prominence of DR as an FMC method, the most important algs would be the DR 3e and 2e2e algorithms.
(R2 U R2 f2)2
(R2 u R2 f2)2
(R2 U r2 F2)2
(R2 u r2 F2)2
M' U2 M U2
(R2 U2 R2 F2)2
F2 R2 U2 F2 U2 R2 F2 U2
L R U2 L' R' F2 L2 F2
(U R2 U' M2)2
(M2 U2)2
(R2 U2)3
R2 U2 L2 U2 R2 D2
(M E2)2
L R U2 L' R' F' B' U2 F B
R2 S2 R2 U R2 S2 R2 U'
and probably a few more. Keep in mind that slice moves are not allowed in FMC, I just wrote them that way for easier memorization.


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## Silky (Aug 15, 2020)

trangium said:


> Because of the prominence of DR as an FMC method, the most important algs would be the DR 3e and 2e2e algorithms.
> (R2 U R2 f2)2
> (R2 u R2 f2)2
> (R2 U r2 F2)2
> ...



Would the algs from this thread also be useful? I'd assume that HTA is a natural progression from DR or is it generally considered to be too linear ? =>



miotatsu said:


> I know this is a pretty big necropost but I think it is time someone puts more information about this method out there.
> 
> First step: EO
> like EOLine except without the line. good tutorial here http://cube.crider.co.uk/?p=eoline
> ...


----------



## Peter Mc (Aug 18, 2020)

On the topic of good algsets for FMC, I agree with trangium about wanting to know the 2e2e and 3e algorithms (at least all those at most 8 HTM).

I would like to know what people think of the idea of learning algorithms to optimally (or close to optimally) solving corners once DR has been reached. Up to initial/final U/D moves, and quotienting by rotational and reflection symmetries, there aren't actually that many cases. At least maybe it will help with knowing whether one has good corners or not.

If I had to say how I could guess whether corners are good or not after DR, I'd try and naively get a HTR by putting the corners into their correct orbits under the squares group, and testing if this was actually a HTR (considering corners only, so yes with probability 1/3). If yes, good corners, otherwise no. Any pros out there have any thoughts on this, or insights into how they distinguish between good/bad corners (and if bad corners, do you just throw it away? (oh dear, probably too many questions now))


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## porkynator (Aug 19, 2020)

Peter Mc said:


> I would like to know what people think of the idea of learning algorithms to optimally (or close to optimally) solving corners once DR has been reached. Up to initial/final U/D moves, and quotienting by rotational and reflection symmetries, there aren't actually that many cases. At least maybe it will help with knowing whether one has good corners or not.



I think it would be just as useful (and probably easier) to learn how to tell quickly if a DR has easy corners or not. Being close to HTR is a good hint, because if corner are HTR'd then they are at most 3 moves away from being solved (worst case is 4, but you can always cancel one move).

For solving corners to HTR, I have found this document extremely useful: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Onc2lu5iW_ODnT71oN5lgpVVjVqbvUMzaylzxgykx0I/edit#

The advantage of following an approach like the one outlined in this document instead of memorizing algs is that it is intuitive, so you can adapt it to solve full HTR or leave only a few edges unsolved.


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## vijfirextreme (Aug 23, 2020)

Hey guys, just began trying FMC a week ago after i saw a couple YouTube videos and I'm really enjoying it. Got a 35 move solve today, and i thought I'd share it with you guys, enjoy!

Scramble: R' U' F R' L' F' L' U F' B' L' U F B R2 L2 D2 F D2 R2 F2 R2 B R' U' F

Skeleton:
2x2x2: F' B D F' L' U B2 (7/7)
2x2x3: (L' F L) (3/10)
F2L-1: D' * D' R2 ** D2 (4/14)
Last slot: D R D' R D' F D F' (7/21)

I was left with a lucky last layer, just a 3 cycle of edges and a 3 cycle of corners, and i found some good insertions i think. Still, last layer is where my main struggles are, so any help is welcome.

*Edge 3 cycle: R' B' F D2 B F' R'
** Corner 3 cycle: R' D2 R U R' D2 R U'

Solution: 
F' B D F' L' U B2 
D' R' B' F D2 B F' R' D' 
R D2 R U R' D2 R U' 
D' R D' R D' F D F' L' F' L 
Total: 35 moves

Alright guys, that's it from me! Was really excited about breaking sub 40 so i thought I'd share it with you all. As mentioned earlier, any tips are much appreciated!


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## trangium (Aug 23, 2020)

vijfirextreme said:


> Hey guys, just began trying FMC a week ago after i saw a couple YouTube videos and I'm really enjoying it. Got a 35 move solve today, and i thought I'd share it with you guys, enjoy!
> 
> Scramble: R' U' F R' L' F' L' U F' B' L' U F B R2 L2 D2 F D2 R2 F2 R2 B R' U' F
> 
> ...


35 moves is a nice result! I would try to get to only 3 corners unsolved, instead of leaving myself with a last layer. To do this, try many different possibilities on the normal and inverse scramble.

For example, with your 2x2x3, you can do this to get to 3 corners left:

2x2x2: F' B D F' L' U B2 (7/7)
2x2x3: (L' F L) (3/10)
Set up red-blue edge: (D' F D F') (4/14)
F2L-1: (R D2 R2) (3/17)
3c: (R2 B' R B R D R' D' R D) (10-2/25)

The insertion cancels 3 moves, for a total of 25+8-3=30.
Skeleton: F' B D F' L' U B2 D' R' D R D' R' B R' B' D2 R' * F D' F' D L' F' L
* R' F L F' R F L' F' (8-3/30)

It's usually good to orient edges in the beginning or middle of a solve, because misoriented edges get harder and harder to deal with the further along the solve you get. In this case EO after your 2x2x3 only takes 3 moves, and it leads to a nice 29:
2x2x2: F' B D F' L' U B2 (7/7)
2x2x3: (L' F L) (3/10)
EO: (F D' F') (3/13)
Square: (D R') (2/15)
Extend to 1x2x3: (D2 R) (2/17)
Reduce to 2e2c: (D' R D') (3/20)
ZBLL 2e2c: (D' F D' L2 U B' U' L2 D2 F') (10-1/29)

Finally, you should learn Domino Reduction (DR), where all pieces are oriented and the E-slice edges are in the E-slice. It is frequently used by top solvers to get sub-25 results. With DR, corner insertions are worse than normal, but edge insertions are much better. In the solve below, it only took 5 moves to solve 5 edges! Here's a solve using DR:

L R U B // EO (4/4)
L2 U F2 D' L2 D L' // DR (7/11)
B2 D F2 D * R2 U' L2 D L2 D // 5e (10/21)

* D2 L2 R2 U2 ** L2 R2 // 3e (6-3/24)
** F2 R2 D R2 F2 L2 U L2 // Solved (8-6/26)


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## vijfirextreme (Aug 23, 2020)

trangium said:


> 35 moves is a nice result! I would try to get to only 3 corners unsolved, instead of leaving myself with a last layer. To do this, try many different possibilities on the normal and inverse scramble.
> 
> For example, with your 2x2x3, you can do this to get to 3 corners left:
> 
> ...


Wow thanks a lot for the advice, I really appreciate you going through it so thoroughly! I'll definitely keep these tips in mind in the future. Thanks again for the advice!


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## Mrauo (Sep 12, 2020)

Reconstruction of my 19 Spanish NR single at Only FMC 2020 

Scr: R' U' F D2 L' D' R2 U' L2 U L2 R2 B2 F D U' R' B2 L D F2 D' R' U' F

L U F // EO (3/3)
D // DR-4e4c (1/4)
B2 L2 U2 L U' // DR (5/9)
D2 R' * B2 // sq (3/12)
L2 D2 // 123 (2/14)
L U2 L F2 R2 * L2 // finish (6/20)

*R2 L2 x2 // (4-5/19)

Solve: L U F D B2 L2 U2 L U' D2 R L2 F2 L2 U2 L D2 L B2

19 moves

I will also share my 23.67 Mo3 reconstructions when the scrambles are upload on wcadb 

Edit: The optimal for that DR was +9 with similar blockbuilding lol: D2 L F2 R2 U2 R' D2 L B2


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## porkynator (Sep 13, 2020)

Mrauo said:


> Reconstruction of my 19 Spanish NR single at Only FMC 2020
> 
> Scr: R' U' F D2 L' D' R2 U' L2 U L2 R2 B2 F D U' R' B2 L D F2 D' R' U' F
> 
> ...



Nice solve, and congrats for your new records!
I have tried the scramble and I got a 23 (my first good solve in months ahah). I have also found your DR, but not your nice direct finish.


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## Mrauo (Sep 13, 2020)

Reconstructions of my 23.67 Spanish NR Mo3 done at OnlyFMC2020 

Good DR's that lead to simple and good skeletons with lucky insertions 



Spoiler: 
R' U' F D' F L2 B' R2 F2 D2 R2 F' D2 F' R' U' R2 D L2 U' L B' D' R' U' F (25)



B D' R//EO (3/3)
F' U'//DR-2e4c (2/5)
B U2 B2 U F2 U'//DR (6/11)
B' R2//sq+line (2/13)
D2 B2 U2//block+good corners (3/16)
B L2 B' F2 R2 F'//AB3E (6/22)

Skeleton: B D' R F' U' B U2 B2 U F2 U' B' R2 D2 * B2 U2 B L2 F2 B' R2 F' 22 to 3e

*D2 R2 U2 F U2 R2 D2 B//3e (8-5/25)

Solve: B D' R F' U' B U2 B2 U F2 U' B' U2 F U2 R2 D2 B' U2 B L2 F2 B' R2 F'

25 moves





Spoiler: R' U' F R2 D B2 F2 D2 U' B2 F2 R2 D' L' R' B L2 R' B' R2 U' B R' U' F (23)



F2 B2 L' F' B//EO+DR-4e4c (5/5)
(R F2 B2 R' D2 L D')//DR (7/12)
(R F2 B2)//123 (3/15)
(R' B2 R')//AB2E2E (3/18)

Skeleton: F2 B2 * L' F' B R B2 R F2 B2 R' D L' D2 R F2 B2 R' 18 to 2e2e

*U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L2//2e2e (6-1/23)

Solve: F2 B2 U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L F' B R B2 R F2 B2 R' D L' D2 R F2 B2 R'

23 moves





Spoiler:  R' U' F D' R B2 L B2 D2 L' U2 R B L D' R' F U L' U R' D R' U' F (23)



(D' L' D')//EO (3/3)
(B' R)//DR-2e3c (2/5)
(F' D2 B' R B R')//DR (6/11)
(B' U2)//sq (2/13)
(B' D2)//sq+123 (2/15)
(B' R2 B F')//AB3E (4/19)

Skeleton: (D' L' D' B' R F' D2 B' R B R' B' U2 B' D2 * B' R2 B F') 19 to 3e

*(D2 L2 U2 F U2 L2 D2 B)//3e (8-4/23)

Solve: F B' R2 D2 L2 U2 F' U2 L2 B U2 B R B' R' B D2 F R' B D L D

23 moves


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## Owen Morrison (Sep 14, 2020)

I am looking to get into FMC, right now I average around 35-38 using Petrus, but obviously I am going to need to learn more things if I want to get better. With so many things to learn, where should I start? Thanks in advance!


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## Silky (Sep 14, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> I am looking to get into FMC, right now I average around 35-38 using Petrus, but obviously I am going to need to learn more things if I want to get better. With so many things to learn, where should I start? Thanks in advance!


Probably NISS and Commutators/Conjugates. Since you're using Petrus I'd also recommend really paying attention to EO throughout your solution.


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## sqAree (Sep 14, 2020)

Owen Morrison said:


> I am looking to get into FMC, right now I average around 35-38 using Petrus, but obviously I am going to need to learn more things if I want to get better. With so many things to learn, where should I start? Thanks in advance!


That's a good foundation. Try to shift the EO step to the very beginning of the solve first and of course make sure to not break EO in the following steps.
Then there are two things that are very important to learn:
1. How to finish a solve more efficiently. With Petrus there are many different bad methods what to do after the 223 block / F2L. You will probably want to get to last slot, then just solve all the remaining 5 edges, and then solve the remaining corners with insertions (the "insertions" part is what you should learn).
2. NISS (this can be used together with any other method for fmc)

That alone should be enough to average well under 30 moves. Once you're comfortable with it, you can jump straight into DR (you could in theory do DR directly too, but it's a bit harder to understand although somewhat more powerful).


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## Spacey10 (Sep 14, 2020)

sqAree said:


> That's a good foundation. Try to shift the EO step to the very beginning of the solve first and of course make sure to not break EO in the following steps.
> Then there are two things that are very important to learn:
> 1. How to finish a solve more efficiently. With Petrus there are many different bad methods what to do after the 223 block / F2L. You will probably want to get to last slot, then just solve all the remaining 5 edges, and then solve the remaining corners with insertions (the "insertions" part is what you should learn).
> 2. NISS (this can be used together with any other method for fmc)
> ...


Wait how do you do EO in the beginning, isn't there a RUF thing at the the beginning and end of the solve? And aren't you not allowed to do the inverse of those moves?


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## TheSlykrCubr (Sep 14, 2020)

I want to get decent at FMC. I'm familiar with how EO, blockbuilding and NISS work. I haven't done a full FMC solve yet (lack of time.) What concepts should i learn next?


What's a skeleton, what are insertions? I have questions.

Help, please!


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## sqAree (Sep 14, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Wait how do you do EO in the beginning, isn't there a RUF thing at the the beginning and end of the solve? And aren't you not allowed to do the inverse of those moves?


The rule is there to prevent people from simply inversing the scramble and write that down as your solution. If you don't do that it's fine.
And I think the misconception here is that you believe if you do those R U F moves EO will be solved but that's not the case. The scrambles are random state which means that every EO case can come up.


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## xyzzy (Sep 15, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> What concepts should i learn next?


You should learn how to schedule so that you can actually do FMC attempts instead of just learning the theory behind it.



TheSlykrCubr said:


> What's a skeleton, what are insertions? I have questions.


A skeleton is an incomplete solution where you solve most, but not all, of the pieces. For example, you could have all but 3 corners solved, and you can fix that with a corner commutator. Sometimes if you try to do the commutator at the end, it takes 8 moves or even more (the maximum is 12); instead, you can track where those three corner pieces to cycle are throughout your skeleton, and find a place where doing the commutator takes only 8 moves, hopefully even cancelling some moves.

The same logic applies to 3e (3 edges), 2e2e (a pair of edge swaps), 2c2e (corner swap + edge swap) skeletons/insertions. Note that you can insert _any_ kind of alg _anywhere_; the most useful algs are those that affect only a small number of pieces, and many such algs are commutators, but there's nothing wrong with inserting algs that aren't commutators.


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## TheSlykrCubr (Sep 15, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> You should learn how to schedule so that you can actually do FMC attempts instead of just learning the theory behind it.



School makes it hard to schedule



xyzzy said:


> A skeleton is an incomplete solution where you solve most, but not all, of the pieces. For example, you could have all but 3 corners solved, and you can fix that with a corner commutator. Sometimes if you try to do the commutator at the end, it takes 8 moves or even more (the maximum is 12); instead, you can track where those three corner pieces to cycle are throughout your skeleton, and find a place where doing the commutator takes only 8 moves, hopefully even cancelling more moves.
> 
> The same logic applies to 3e (3 edges), 2e2e (a pair of edge swaps), 2c2e (corner swap + edge swap) skeletons/insertions. Note that you can insert _any_ kind of alg _anywhere_; the most useful algs are those that affect only a small number of pieces, and most such algs are commutators, but there's nothing wrong with inserting algs that aren't commutators.



Ok, so how will i apply the skeleton to the end solution?

Also, is there a specific technique for creating a skeleton?


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## xyzzy (Sep 15, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> Ok, so how will i apply the skeleton to the end solution?


It should be fairly obvious once you try it out. (You already know NISS, right?)

An example from one of my solves for the weekly comp (2019-34).

Scramble: R' U' F R' U2 L' D2 U2 L' F2 R B2 L2 B2 D' F L' B2 U' L' U' L2 U' R' U' F

U L' (R B2) // pair and square (4/4)
D B' R' D (D') // 223 (5/9)
(B L' B' L' B2) // another square (5/14)
(B' L B L' B' L2 U' L U B) // all but 3 corners (10-1/23) 

Here, I have three corner pieces left to solve. Rewrite the whole skeleton in a linear form:
U L' D B' R' D B' U' L' U @ L2 B L B' L' B' L B L B' D B2 R' 

(It's possible to do insertions in the NISS form, but it's harder and you're going to have to write your final solution in linear form anyway.) At the place marked with an @ sign, I can do a corner commutator U R U' L U R' U' L' to solve those three corners, then continue with the rest of the solution. This comm also cancels two moves (the U at the start with the U move before the @; the L' at the end with the L2 move after the @).

U L' D B' R' D B' U' L' U *U R U' L U R' U' L'* L2 B L B' L' B' L B L B' D B2 R'
= U L' D B' R' D B' U' L' U2 R U' L U R' U' L B L B' L' B' L B L B' D B2 R'

(My solve #2 for that week's comp has an 11-move 4t3e insertion, if you want to see an example of a "unconventional" insertion.)



TheSlykrCubr said:


> Also, is there a specific technique for creating a skeleton?


You just pretend some pieces are solved even if they actually aren't (especially if properly solving them would take a lot of moves), and keep going until you're stuck.


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## porkynator (Sep 17, 2020)

Here is a scamble with no 4-move EO or shorter:
R' U' F B U F R' D R2 U R F' L2 F' U2 B' D2 B U2 F D2 R2 F R' U' F

The "Hyper-parity method" helped me find an HTR here.

R B F2 U' F' //EO (5/5)
R U' //Reduce to 4c1e (2/7)
(R' D' L2 D) //DR (4/11)

Now one might think that one could setup to a single move (like U) for HTR. But actually we are in the No parity / UD0 / FB1 case of the parity maze. In particular, if we did setup (with double moves only) and then a single move, the parity would be odd, so no HTR.
Instead, we need to first reduce to a different case:

R2 F2 L' //Reduce to Parity / UD1 / FB1

And then we can find an HTR:

B2 L2 U2 L //HTR in 18

Unfortunately the optimal finish for this HTR is 10 moves (U2 F' B' D2 L2 U2 R2 F B R2), so I ended up using my backup solution:

R B (L2 U2 B) //EO
(U' L B2) //321
(U L' D L U2) //322
(D R' D R2) //F2L-1
(D2 R D' R' D' R D2 R' D) //Finish 26


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## vijfirextreme (Sep 22, 2020)

What's up guys, I posted here a few weeks ago about getting my first sub 40 solve, and I'm proud to announce that I just got my first sub 30 solve today (albeit very lucky)! Thought I'd share it with you so, here it is:

Scramble: R' U' F U D' F' L U' R2 F U' D2 F2 L2 D2 L F2 B2 L' B2 U2 L U2 R' U' F
Inverse: F’ U R U2 L’ U2 B2 L B2 F2 L’ D2 L2 F2 D2 U F’ R2 U L’ F D U’ F’ U R

F’ B2 U F R’ B2 //222 (6/6)
B L’ B’ pre-move L //Pseudo 223 (4/9)
(F’ U2 F U’ F2 U2) //F2L-1 (6/15)
(L’ U L U2 F’ U F2) //EO + Edge Permutation + Last Slot (7/22) 

^I got really lucky here. I was really stoked when I realized that this left me with just a 3c insertion.

Skeleton (22):
F’ B2 * U F R’ B’ L’ B’ F2 U’ F U2 L’ U’ L U2 F2 U F’ U2 F L

* = R’ D’ R U R’ D R U’ //3c (8-2)

Solution (28 Moves):

F’ B2 R’ D’ R U R’ D R F R’ B’ L’ B’ F2 U’ F U2 L’ U’ L U2 F2 U F’ U2 F L

Thanks for reading everyone! As before, any tips for improvement are much appreciated!


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## Sam N (Sep 30, 2020)

I got an interesting scramble during a 3x3 practice session. During my solve, I got to a point where all the edges were solved quite quickly which was very distracting. It made me wonder if there was any cool solution that could be applied using FMC. I've been quite rusty with this event, so I thought I would post it so others could take a look. 

Scramble: D2 U2 R B2 D2 L2 U2 F2 L R2 F2 D U2 L F' L' D' F2 D U2 

My start to a solution:

Cross: F' D' R' F' 

First pair: U L' U' L2 U L' U 

This left me with all my edges solved, and 5 corners left. I have not checked the inverse, but it feels like there should be something better that you can do with this. Not sure where else to take it from here, but thought I'd post it for anyone who wants to tinker around with it.


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## Kit Clement (Sep 30, 2020)

Sam N said:


> View attachment 13543
> 
> I got an interesting scramble during a 3x3 practice session. During my solve, I got to a point where all the edges were solved quite quickly which was very distracting. It made me wonder if there was any cool solution that could be applied using FMC. I've been quite rusty with this event, so I thought I would post it so others could take a look.
> 
> ...



Just using insertion finder on that skeleton leads to a 22 solution: https://fewestmov.es/if/e1712605908da82fdf257f43c66b6f23

The two insertions are nested, but given that the first one cancels 2 it seems like it would be not be too hard to find.


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## Sam N (Sep 30, 2020)

Kit Clement said:


> Just using insertion finder on that skeleton leads to a 22 solution: https://fewestmov.es/if/e1712605908da82fdf257f43c66b6f23
> 
> The two insertions are nested, but given that the first one cancels 2 it seems like it would be not be too hard to find.



Thanks for the response Kit. I did not know about the insertion finder. That is a great tool, thanks for the help.


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## xyzzy (Oct 1, 2020)

Some useless 7-cycle insertion idea:

When you have a 7-cycle (A B C D E F G) left to solve, you could start by inserting any one of (A B C), (B C D), … (E F G), (F G A) or (G A B) to reduce it to a 5-cycle, and thereby finish it with two more insertions. But that's not the only way to do a 7-cycle with three insertions; you could also insert any of (A B E), (B C F), …, (F G C), (G A D) to reduce it to two disjoint 3-cycles, and continue from there.

(This is probably useless because any time you can do this "split" insertion, unless the optimal insertions are nested, the final result will be the same thing as just doing three normal insertions anyway. Also who even does 7c skeletons?)


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## Cuberstache (Oct 2, 2020)

NARIDOLL75 said:


> So, how would YOU end this? I'd like to see how you guys handle this bad ending.


Nice job replying to an 11-year old post lol


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## Cubing Forever (Oct 18, 2020)

Can anyone tell me why my botched up FMC attempt got DNFed at weekly comp ? ( name displayed is Cubing Forever)


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## fun at the joy (Oct 18, 2020)

Cubing Forever said:


> Can anyone tell me why my botched up FMC attempt got DNFed at weekly comp ? ( name displayed is Cubing Forever)


It is pretty obvious.
Your submitted solution doesn't solve the cube.








alg.cubing.net






alg.cubing.net


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## Cubing Forever (Oct 19, 2020)

fun at the joy said:


> It is pretty obvious.
> Your submitted solution doesn't solve the cube.
> 
> 
> ...


Oops, I guess I forgot some y rotations in between


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## 4th dimension (time) (Oct 30, 2020)

Hey guys, I'm averaging low 30s and really want to improve. I feel like my biggest weakness is always going for 5c finishes. I just got a 30 today and was wondering how to find 5e5c, 3e5c, and 2e2c insertions as I think learning those would be the most helpful to me. Most of the time if I get parity, I struggle and try to force an insertion for a 10 move Jperm into 3c. The only other 2e2c alg I know is [D2: [D F D', r2]] F' but I still don't know how to come up with these intuitively like I know for 3c and 3e. Could someone who is averaging low 20's critique my solve?:


```
Scramble: R F2 R F2 L' D2 R' F2 R2 F2 U2 B F L' F' D' R2 B U' L2 D

L' B // square (2/2)
U' R F' L premove F // pseudo 223 (5/7)
D B' D2 B premove D2 // psuedo F2L-1 (5/12)
(B R2 B' R' B R B') // LS (7/19)
(D R D' R D R' D' R D R2 D') // ZBLL (11/30)
```

Using the insertion finder tool I can see that 24 moves on my F2L-1 skeleton is achievable, but it just blows my mind as to how to come up with something like this.

edit: I found a 28 move solution by doing B R B' D2 F' R' F R D2 on the regular scramble for LS and U R U' R U R2 U' R as ZBLL


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## Cale S (Nov 26, 2020)

4th 18 pb single

R' U' F B2 L2 U2 L2 R2 B2 U' R2 D U R' U' F2 L2 F2 R2 F' R' B' D2 R' U' F

(R2 U2 B') // EO
F2 U2 B2 R' D2 R' // DR (9)
D' L2 U2 D2 F2 U L2 @ U' // 17 to 3c

@ = [L2, U' B U B'] // 10 - 9 sledge comm lol

Solution: F2 U2 B2 R' D2 R' D' L2 U2 D2 F2 B U B' L2 B U R2 (18)

optimal solution


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## Mrauo (Nov 29, 2020)

Finally broke the sub20 barrier on home 
Tied with my PR

Scr: R' U' F U L2 B2 R2 D' R2 F2 R2 B2 D2 U B' L' U' L B F' R' U2 B2 R' U' F

B U D2 L//EO (4/4)
D U//DR-4e4c (2/6)
(R2 B2 U2 F' U')//DR solved corners (5/11)
F//HTR LOL(1/12)
D2 R2 B2 D2 L2//AB2E2E (5/17)

Skeleton: B U D2 L D U F D2 R2 B2 D2 L2 U F U2 B2 * R2 17 to 2e2e

*B2 U2 B2 U2 B2 U2//2e2e (6-4/19)

Solution: B U D2 L D U F D2 R2 B2 D2 L2 U F B2 U2 B2 U2 R2

19 moves


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## DNF_Cuber (Nov 29, 2020)

I am just learning DR, and I did EO and CO for this solve, But I could only get one E layer edge in during CO. What is the best way to place the E layer edges without disturbing piece orientation?
Here is the scramble and my partial DR
R' U' F U F L' U2 D F R' F' R2 U' L2 B2 U B2 D F2 D L2 U L2 B R' U' F
U'D'B'R//EO
B'D2F'D'BDFB'//CO
How do I put the E edges in now?


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## fun at the joy (Nov 29, 2020)

DNF_Cuber said:


> I am just learning DR, and I did EO and CO for this solve, But I could only get one E layer edge in during CO. What is the best way to place the E layer edges without disturbing piece orientation?
> Here is the scramble and my partial DR
> R' U' F U F L' U2 D F R' F' R2 U' L2 B2 U B2 D F2 D L2 U L2 B R' U' F
> U'D'B'R//EO
> ...


First of all I recommend this: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mppifILqu9Bu2phr8zhXGcXasBsSkv_S

The most common way to solve DR is 1. eo on 1 axis 2. co+eo on a 2nd axis.
After eo you setup to triggers like R U2 R', R U R' or R and similar ones.
R U2 R' orients 2e4c, R U R' orients 2e3c and R orients 4e4c.
The case you have is very bad so just look for something else here.

This is something I found:
B D' F // eo on f/b
After eo on f/b there are 4 unoriented corners looking at white/yellow and 4 unoriented edges on the r/l. This means that you can setup to 1 move
(U' R2) // 2 corner-edge pairs
(D' U2 R2) // 2 lines
(U D' R) // dr
(B2 D' B2) // 2e2e in 14

B D' F B2 D B2 R' [D U' R2 U2 D R2 U]
replace [D U' R2 U2 D R2 U] with [F2 U2 D F2 D] // -2
(ok that's from slicey finder but who cares)

B D' F B2 D B2 R' * F2 U2 D F2 D

* R2 F2 B2 L2 F2 B2 // 6-3

B D' F B2 D B2 R F2 B2 L2 B2 U2 D F2 D // 15
hmm yes I like that random 15

wtf that solve was actually relatively easy (I'm too bad/unexpierienced to see those replacements but that 15 should've been pretty obvious for good solvers lol).
This is literally sub-wr and 15 moves is soooooo rare.


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## DNF_Cuber (Nov 29, 2020)

fun at the joy said:


> This is literally sub-wr and 15 moves is soooooo rare.


so, I get a super easy and rare scramble while I am a total noob at DR  . Thanks for answering my question


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## DNF_Cuber (Nov 29, 2020)

First success with DR! A 54 mover 
R' U' F D2 R D F' R' U' F U L' U' D2 B L2 F' R2 L2 D2 R2 F' D2 B2 R' U' F
F'BU'D2R//EO 5/5
F'DFUD'BD'B'UB2R2U2D2BF'UFU'B'//CO+E layer 19/24
DB2DUB2U'RU2R2U2R2U2RU'DB2DB'U'BLB'U'BUBL'B2UB//Finish 30/54

That Jperm at the end was regrettable, I don't really know how to finish well, but I just wanted a successful Domino Reduction.
EDIT: and then I got a 44 in like 10 minutes 
R' U' F L U F D' R2 D' R2 U' F2 R2 B2 U2 F' D B2 R' F' D' F2 R' U' F
U'D'L'D'F// EO 5/5
LR'D'R'URL2U2DRUL'U'LR'// DR 15/20 4 moves less than last time, happy with that.
U'DR2DL2DL2D'L2B2DB2DB2U'L2UD'F2D2F2D2F2D'//Finish 24/44 Very pleased, that was more true DR than last time


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## Gliphe (Dec 12, 2020)

What are the shortest PLL algs?


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## xyzzy (Dec 12, 2020)

Gliphe said:


> What are the shortest PLL algs?


A, U, H are 9 moves.
J, T are 10 moves. (These are the important ones: 10 moves is optimal for 2c2e, whereas the others can usually take fewer moves by doing insertions instead.)
G, Z are 12 moves.
The rest are irrelevant for FMC.


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## Mrauo (Dec 12, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> A, U, H are 9 moves.
> J, T are 10 moves. (These are the important ones: 10 moves is optimal for 2c2e, whereas the others can usually take fewer moves by doing insertions instead.)
> G, Z are 12 moves.
> The rest are irrelevant for FMC.



Well, H is 9+AUF and T is 10+AUF, so I prefer consider that they are 10 and 11 moves respectively ;P
And a fun fact of the Hperm is that it can always be inserted in 8 moves or less because with two 10 movers you can always get at least 10-2:
R L U2 R' L' F' B' U2 F B 
F2 R2 L2 B2 D B2 R2 L2 F2 U' 
(and mirrors or inverse of both algs)


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## Gliphe (Dec 16, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> A, U, H are 9 moves.
> J, T are 10 moves. (These are the important ones: 10 moves is optimal for 2c2e, whereas the others can usually take fewer moves by doing insertions instead.)
> G, Z are 12 moves.
> The rest are irrelevant for FMC.


Can you list the algs for G perms and Z Perms for me, please???


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## Gliphe (Dec 16, 2020)

Actually, I found an alg for Z Perm.
R2 U R2 U' R2 F2 R2 U' F2 U R2 F2


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## xyzzy (Dec 17, 2020)

Gliphe said:


> Can you list the algs for G perms and Z Perms for me, please???


If you're going to learn algs specifically for FMC, learn the more useful ones like 3e or 2e2e algs (especially the ones that _aren't_ commutators).

Anyway, the RUuy G perms that used to be popular (R2 u R' U R' U' R u' R2 y' R' U R) are 12 moves long. If you already know the RUD G perms, that's almost the same alg:
R2 *U* R' U R' U' R *U'* R2 *U' D* R' U R *D'* ↔ R2 *u* R' U R' U' R *u'* R2 *y'* R' U R

For Z perm, there are these easy algs:
- M2 U F2 M2 F2 M2 U' M2 and mirrors/inverses
- M2 U M2 U F2 M2 F2 M2 and mirrors/inverses (you can also replace F2 M2 F2 M2 with M2 F2 M2 F2)
- S M2 S' u M2 u' M2 and mirrors/inverses
Choosing the appropriate one will always let you cancel at least two moves, but it's almost always better to do 2e2e insertions instead. The second alg above solves the U2 angle (where the corners are a U2 away from solved); the other two preserve the corners.

(Note: I'm writing these algs with slice moves and lowercase letters for wide moves. This is _not_ accepted for FMC. When writing up your FMC solution, you have to use the standard WCA notation.)


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## hiraken (Jan 3, 2021)

hello, this is my first post.

I tried FMC of 6x6x6 cube and 7x7x7 cube for the first time.
It took 20 hours for 7FMC and 6 hours for 6FMC, it was so tough for me.

Instead of writing down here, I've posted scrambles and solutions on my website, so please take a look if you like. (written in Japanese).








超多分割FMCやってみた - [はまきゅ～活動中](非公式)


Speedcubing Advent Calendar 2020 9日目の記事です。




hk-hamacube.hatenablog.com





By the way, can I claim myself as a new world record holder of 6×6 FMC and 7×7 FMC?


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## xyzzy (Jan 3, 2021)

hiraken said:


> By the way, can I claim myself as a new world record holder of 6×6 FMC and 7×7 FMC?


Ah, sorry, I still have the 7FMC record of 313 moves (168 centres + 117 edge pairing + 28 3×3). Nobody ever updated the wiki for that and I'm not vain enough to do it myself.

That's still pretty cool though—not too many other madmen are willing to even try big cube FMC.

When it comes to OLL parity / edge parity, you should fix that during the centres rather than edge pairing; by using a different number of 2Xw/3Xw quarter turns to solve the centres, you can affect the parity of the edge pieces. Parity algs are long, so doing this parity avoidance is absolutely worth it.

There's no similar counting trick to handle PLL parity. What I do is just try different ways of edge pairing until I find something that doesn't lead to PLL parity. Especially easy on the last two edges if you get this kind of case, since one way of doing slice-flip-slice will give you PLL parity and the other one won't.


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## ProStar (Jan 3, 2021)

xyzzy said:


> Ah, sorry, I still have the 7FMC record of 313 moves (168 centres + 117 edge pairing + 28 3×3). Nobody ever updated the wiki for that and I'm not vain enough to do it myself.
> 
> That's still pretty cool though—not too many other madmen are willing to even try big cube FMC.
> 
> ...



For the record, I was insane enough to do 7x7 "FMC".

(it actually wasn't really FMC but just a 7x7 example solve)


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## hiraken (Jan 4, 2021)

xyzzy said:


> Ah, sorry, I still have the 7FMC record of 313 moves (168 centres + 117 edge pairing + 28 3×3). Nobody ever updated the wiki for that and I'm not vain enough to do it myself.
> 
> That's still pretty cool though—not too many other madmen are willing to even try big cube FMC.
> 
> ...



Oh...I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that you already had the 7FMC record before (where can I access?)

Thank you so much for your advice. I was too tired to think about avoiding parity cases.
I should try again for my new record... maybe... someday.


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## xyzzy (Jan 4, 2021)

hiraken said:


> Oh...I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that you already had the 7FMC record before (where can I access?)





Spoiler: Scramble & solution



Scramble:
3Lw F2 Bw 3Bw2 3Rw2 Lw 3Fw2 Rw2 3Fw' B2 3Bw' 3Dw2 B L2 F' Uw Lw Uw' Lw' 3Fw2 3Uw2 L' 3Lw' Bw Rw' 3Dw Fw' Rw' 3Rw' Bw 3Rw Bw2 D2 Rw Dw L2 3Uw2 3Bw' F' B R' 3Lw' Uw2 Lw Rw Bw2 F2 U' B' F 3Uw B' D2 Uw' U 3Rw2 Dw Bw' R2 3Fw' Fw' Bw' U' 3Dw 3Lw 3Bw2 3Lw 3Fw' L2 3Uw B' Lw' L B Dw' F Bw2 3Fw' B2 3Dw' D F' R' F2 Bw R2 Rw' 3Fw2 L Rw2 3Bw2 3Lw Dw2 Rw' U2 R' 3Fw2 Bw D' U'

Solution (313):
3Fw 3Bw' D2 U Bw 3Dw2 F Uw 3Uw'
Bw' Rw' Bw 3Uw' 3Dw L 3Dw
B2 Rw' 3Rw2 R' F Uw2 F Uw'
3Lw2 U Rw 3Rw2 U Lw2 R2 Fw'

D2 B Lw' 3Rw2
L2 3Bw L2 3Bw' Bw' L' Bw
U' D' 3Lw2 3Rw' L' 3Uw' L2 3Uw
D 3Rw2 F B 3Lw2 U2 Rw L' Bw L2 Bw'
3Rw' 3Lw' Rw2 Fw2 D Fw2 3Lw2

D Rw D2 3Lw D2 3Lw' L U
3Bw Bw2 L2 3Bw' U 3Bw2
Rw2 B2 3Lw2 3Fw2
3Rw' F2 3Rw Fw2
D' B2 Rw' F' Rw' B2 3Lw D2 3Lw

D 3Lw' F U 3Lw Lw' U2 Lw
Bw2 U2 Bw2 F' D 3Lw' F2 U' 3Lw
Rw2 D 3Lw2 3Rw2 D' Rw2 3Rw' B2 3Rw'
U' D2 3Lw2 U2 Rw2 U' Rw' F2 Rw'

3Fw2 U 3Fw2 U' 3Rw2 U2 3Rw2 U 3Rw2 U 3Rw2
U Lw2 U2 Lw2 U Rw2 U2 Rw2 U' 3Rw2 U2 3Rw2
Rw2 U 3Rw2 U' Rw2 U Rw2 U2 Rw2 U2

D L2 D' Rw2 3Lw2 U' R2 U
D L2 D' 3Rw2 B L2 B' Rw2 U' L' U 3Lw2
U2 Bw2 D B' D' Bw2
R' U' R U 3Rw Rw B U L2 B' U' Rw' F' R F 3Rw'
3Fw2 L2 3Fw U B2 U' Bw F' L' F L D B' D' Bw' 3Fw' L2 3Fw2
B U' 3Fw2 Bw2 R2 U' R2 U Bw2
R B' R' 3Fw D F D' R B' R' 3Fw
D' 3Rw2 D B' D' B 3Rw2
U2 3Rw' Rw U R2 U' 3Rw D' R D Rw'
3Bw2 Bw2 D R' B D' R 3Bw2 Bw2
Lw B' R' B Lw' Uw B U2 B' Uw'

U F U' B' U F' U' D' R D
R2 D' R2 U' R2 B2 R F2 R' B2
R F' L F' L U L' U





Spoiler: Explanation/notes



// red centre
3f 3b' D2 U Bw 3d2 F Uw 3u'
Bw' Rw' Bw 3u' 3d L 3d
B2 Rw' 3r2 R' F Uw2 F Uw'
3l2 U Rw 3r2 U Lw2 R2 Fw'

// orange+blue centres
D2 B Lw' 3r2
L2 3b L2 3b' Bw' L' Bw
U' D' 3l2 3r' L' 3u' L2 3u
D 3r2 F B 3l2 U2 Rw L' Bw L2 Bw'
3r' 3l' Rw2 Fw2 D Fw2 3l2

D Rw D2 3l D2 3l' L U
3b Bw2 L2 3b' U 3b2
Rw2 B2 3l2 3f2
3r' F2 3r Fw2
D' B2 Rw' F' Rw' B2 3l D2 3l

// green centre
D 3l' F U 3l Lw' U2 Lw
Bw2 U2 Bw2 F' D 3l' F2 U' 3l
Rw2 D 3l2 3r2 D' Rw2 3r' B2 3r'
U' D2 3l2 U2 r2 U' Rw' F2 Rw'

// white, yellow centres
3f2 U 3f2 U' 3r2 U2 3r2 U 3r2 U 3r2
U l2 U2 l2 U r2 U2 r2 U' 3r2 U2 3r2
r2 U 3r2 U' r2 U r2 U2 r2 U2

// edge pairing
D L2 D' r2 3l2 U' R2 U // 2 in 1 out
D L2 D' 3r2 B L2 B' r2 U' L' U 3l2 // +2/4 in +3/4 out
U2 b2 D B' D' b2 // +2/6 out
R' U' R U 3r r B U L2 B' U' r' F' R F 3r' // +4/8 in +3/9 out
3f2 L2 3f U B2 U' b F' L' F L D B' D' b' 3f' L2 3f2 // +4/12 in +3/12 out
B U' 3f2 b2 R2 U' R2 U b2 // +2/14 in +2/14 out
R B' R' 3f D F D' R B' R' 3f // +3/17 in
D' 3r2 D B' D' B 3r2 // +2/19 in
U2 3r' r U R2 U' 3r D' R D r' // +1/20 in +4/18 out
3b2 b2 D R' B D' R 3b2 b2 // +4/24 in
l B' R' B l' u B U2 B' u' // +6/24 out

// 333
U F U' B' U F' U' D' R D
R2 D' R2 U' R2 B2 R F2 R' B2
R F' L F' L U L' U

My working notation for the first four centres was SiGN for triple-layer moves (3u) and WCA for double-layer moves (Uw). This kept the visual width of the multi-layer moves about the same, and also makes reading the moves faster while reducing ambiguity ("w" always implies two layers, "3" always implies three layers).

I think I had move count annotations on my rough paper but didn't bother to type them out.

---

The 333 part:

B' D' R D // square (4/4)
R2 D' R2 U' R' // p223 (5/9)
(U' L U' L2) // adjust, EO, F2L-1 (4/13)
(L F L' F') // ab5c (4-1/16)

Skeleton: B' @ D' R D R2 D' R2 U' R' # F L F' L U L' U
@ = B U F U' B' U F' U' // 2 cancel
# = R' B2 R F2 R' B2 R F2 // 2 cancel (16-4/28)

I didn't bother looking for 3c insertions in centres or edge pairing.


I probably still have UWR singles for megaFMC (107) and 5FMC (126). Don't have enough patience to try out 6FMC—no fixed centres, so the orientation could get very confusing.


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## xyzzy (Jan 11, 2021)

Weekly comp 2021-01 stuff. I pre-committed to using only DR for the first solve (before seeing the scramble), so I didn't bother looking for blockbuilding starts or other non-DR EO starts.



Spoiler: #1



Scramble: R' U' F L2 F' B L D2 R' B2 D F' R' B2 U2 D2 L' F2 R2 F2 R U' B' R' U' F

R F D' L // EO (4/4)
(L2 U2 F) // align blocks
R2 D U' F D F // DR (9/13) 

Then after this DR was this junk with bad corners and a whole load of unsolved edges. Not really sure what to do with this, so I just went to solve the corners.

R2 U2 B2 U R2 U' B2 U2 R2 // 2c2c2e2e alg; based on the optimal alg for the F (R U R' U')3 F' ZBLL
U' // align layers I guess (10/23)

(Now I realise that the normal PBL alg actually solves the corners in only 8 moves rather than 10.) Loads of unsolved edges left: a 2-cycle and a 6-cycle.

skel: R F D' L R2 D U' F D F R2 U2 B2 @ U R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' F' U2 L2
@ = B2 F2 L R U2 D2 L R // four 2-cycles; to ab3e (8−2/29)

The last insertion is just a basic M' U2 M U2 kind of 3-cycle.
skel: R F D' L # R2 U' …
# = F' B U2 F B' R2 // finish (6−2/33)

Meh.

IF finds some truly ridiculous 34−29=+5 insertions with everything selected:
Skeleton
R F D' R2 L U' D F D F R2 U2 B2 U R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' F' U2 L2

B' D2 R2 B2 U2 F' B' U2 R2 F' (10-7)
Skeleton
R F D' R2 L U' D F D B' D2 R2 B2 U2 F' B U R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' F' U2 L2

F2 B2 D L2 D' F2 B2 U R2 U' (10-10)
Skeleton
R F D' R2 L U' D F D B' D2 R2 B2 U2 F B' D L2 D' F2 U2 R2 U' F' U2 L2

F B' R2 F' B U2 (6-7)
Skeleton
R F D' R2 L U' D F D B' D2 R2 F B R2 D L2 D' F2 U2 R2 U' F' U2 L2

B2 D2 R2 U2 F2 U2 R2 D2 (8-5)
Final Solution
R F D' R2 L U' D F D B D2 R2 U2 F2 U2 F B R2 D L2 D' F2 U2 R2 U' F' U2 L2

Then again, even when using only 3-cycles, it finds a 31-move solution (32−24=+8 from the insertions). So much for my weird 2e2e2e2e insertion.





Spoiler: #2



Scramble: R' U' F R D2 B2 R U2 L2 U2 L' B' D B L2 D R2 F' D L2 U' F2 R' U' F

Most people (myself included) went for the one-move 222 block; only Cale and Remo Pihel didn't.

L2 // 222 (1/1)
D' B2 D' B' // EO (4/5)
D' R D2 U R' # D @ R U' // ab3c3c (8/13)
@ = B' R F' R' B R F R' // 3-cycle (8−2/19)
# = R2 F' L' F R2 F' L F // 3-cycle (8−1/26)

The L2 start doesn't seem to have nice blockbuilding continuations, so I just went for EO and it just came together. Insertions were worse than typical; IF finds a better pair of insertions, with the first insertion cancelling only one move and the second insertion (nested in first) cancelling three.

Also found this:
L' B2 L' // 222 (3/3)
(B D B' R' B' U' R D' R' U) // F2L (10/13)
(F' D' F L D2 L' D' L D' L' D2 F' D F) // ZBLL (14/27)
The extra B2 move in the start makes a nice pair. I _knew_ this ZBLL case is 10 moves optimal, but it's literally the only ≤10-move ZBLL case I don't know. Absolutely cursed. With the optimal ZBLL:
L' B2 L' // 222 (3/3)
(B D B' R' B' U' R D' R' U) // F2L (10/13)
(F B' U' L2 U B2 D' B' D F') // ZBLL magic (10/23)

I looked up the optimal alg, memorised it, and almost had a chance to use it in scramble #3 (it ended up one move worse than my other solution).


Nothing notable about my attempt for #3 besides the thing I already mentioned in the above spoilerboxes.


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## indev85 (Jan 16, 2021)

Hello, everyone. 

I have always heard of the well-known FMC, where NISS, Insertions, etc. are used. However, what about LINEAR FMC? Basically, it’s solving the cube in the fewest moves possible, but not being able to use NISS, insertions, or undo moves.

In this case, does edge orientation still matter? If so/not, what are the best methods that could be used to get the best results?


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## effperm (Jan 17, 2021)

hiraken said:


> hello, this is my first post.
> 
> I tried FMC of 6x6x6 cube and 7x7x7 cube for the first time.
> It took 20 hours for 7FMC and 6 hours for 6FMC, it was so tough for me.
> ...


yes you can for 6x6 at least
thats uwr excluding the 1 hour limit
good job



xyzzy said:


> I probably still have UWR singles for megaFMC (107)



james macdiarmid has 100


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## Hssandwich (Jan 17, 2021)

indev85 said:


> Hello, everyone.
> 
> I have always heard of the well-known FMC, where NISS, Insertions, etc. are used. However, what about LINEAR FMC? Basically, it’s solving the cube in the fewest moves possible, but not being able to use NISS, insertions, or undo moves.
> 
> In this case, does edge orientation still matter? If so/not, what are the best methods that could be used to get the best results?


This is an interesting question! And I'm glad you use the word linear correctly, which a lot of people don't  

I think EO is probably the best strategy, although freedom is restricted, it means that block building often comes together more easily and it's easier to get out of sticky parity cases at the end of the solve.


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## indev85 (Jan 17, 2021)

Hssandwich,

Great! Thanks for the suggestion! 

The reason why I’ve asked about EO was because in Sebastiano Tronto’s FMC “How To”, he specifically averred that “the more bad edges there are, the harder things will be.” However, I didn’t know if that applied for Linear FMC as well.

In that case, should EO be done in the beginning, as in ZZ? Or should it be done in a later step, as in Petrus?


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## Delta Phi (Jan 17, 2021)

With the rise of PDR, EO is often done right away in a solve unless something else obvious presents itself. However, I dont think PDR is the definite best linear FMC method, and instead you should use a low movecount method like Petrus which orients later, but of course as with regular FMC you shouldnt limit yourself to one method and should try to do the best solution regardless of method.


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## Kit Clement (Jan 17, 2021)

indev85 said:


> Hssandwich,
> 
> Great! Thanks for the suggestion!
> 
> ...



I think it depends on the situation. When doing a normal FMC attempt, you generally list out a long list of EOs and screen them for ones that give pairs or other nice starts. A strong majority of them usually don't lead to easy to find solutions right away. That said, having EO done right away is still a boon early on - if you make pairs after EO, they will have their edges oriented if you make them, making them far more useful than if you don't have EO done. I think the context of the scramble will guide you on which route to take - is there a nice, easy to use pair on the scramble? Do you have 4 bad edges from one angle, or are most angles giving bad EO cases (i.e. 10 bad edges)? That will guide if you should do it early or late.

Of course, with domino solutions being the new trend in FMC, EO first is an absolute must. From what I can tell as someone who is not well versed in DR, it seems that this is actually a great method for doing linear solutions given how methodical and prescriptive it can be with a great deal of efficiency. I don't know how likely it is that you can produce an EO that leaves nice cases for finishing DR (e.g. 2e4c or an insert) and how bad it would be if you picked an EO that produces a difficult to finish DR, and then went on to a DR with bad corners, so I don't know for sure how good this would be, but I imagine it would still be very effective overall compared to standard EO/block approaches.


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## DanHarris (Jan 18, 2021)

Hello...

For those of you that are interested, I have just restored almost all of the 187 FMC contests I ran between 2003 and 2008. FMC has come on a long way since those days! 

You can find the archive here - http://www.cubestation.co.uk/index.php?page=fmc/fmcnewsystem

Cheers


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## indev85 (Jan 19, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> I think it depends on the situation. When doing a normal FMC attempt, you generally list out a long list of EOs and screen them for ones that give pairs or other nice starts. A strong majority of them usually don't lead to easy to find solutions right away. That said, having EO done right away is still a boon early on - if you make pairs after EO, they will have their edges oriented if you make them, making them far more useful than if you don't have EO done. I think the context of the scramble will guide you on which route to take - is there a nice, easy to use pair on the scramble? Do you have 4 bad edges from one angle, or are most angles giving bad EO cases (i.e. 10 bad edges)? That will guide if you should do it early or late.
> 
> Of course, with domino solutions being the new trend in FMC, EO first is an absolute must. From what I can tell as someone who is not well versed in DR, it seems that this is actually a great method for doing linear solutions given how methodical and prescriptive it can be with a great deal of efficiency. I don't know how likely it is that you can produce an EO that leaves nice cases for finishing DR (e.g. 2e4c or an insert) and how bad it would be if you picked an EO that produces a difficult to finish DR, and then went on to a DR with bad corners, so I don't know for sure how good this would be, but I imagine it would still be very effective overall compared to standard EO/block approaches.



Oh yes, I have heard of DR before. However, I have found that reducing and solving the cube after reduction seems to take more moves than blockbuilding, probably because DR would work better with insertions and inverse scramble techniques, in order to exploit the reduced state. Due to experimentation since the time I have made my initial post, I have resolved my issue about EO.

Are there any other things that could help with Linear FMC? Like how to build the 2x2x3 block directly, as opposed to a 2x2x2 + 1x2x2?


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## Cubing Forever (Jan 20, 2021)

I average around 48-50 now and NISS and insertions(I usually do "insertions" at the end of skeletons due to my lack of knowledge) seem confusing. Any tips to approach it? 
I always seem to finish with DR due to using the Mehta method. Any tips for sub 40?


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## hiraken (Jan 21, 2021)

f96 said:


> yes you can for 6x6 at least
> thats uwr excluding the 1 hour limit
> good job


Thank you so much!!
I'm so glad to hear that.

1 hour limit ... I wonder if I'll try it someday.


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## trangium (Jan 31, 2021)

Around a month ago I tried 4x4 FMC.
Since Domino Reduction is such a good FMC method for 3x3, I extended it into a reduction-based method for 4x4, reducing from <U, D, L, R, F, B, Uw, Dw, Lw, Rw, Fw, Bw> to <U, D, L, R, F, B, Uw2, Dw2, Lw2, Rw2, Fw2, Bw2> to <U, D, L, R, F, B> then proceeding with 3x3 stage. It worked really well!



Spoiler: First attempt (66 OBTM)



Scramble: D2 L2 U' R2 B2 L2 D R2 U B2 F' D' R U2 L R2 U' R2 D Fw2 D2 L' F' Rw2 B' L2 D2 Rw2 D2 Fw2 L' Uw Fw2 D2 R D' F' D Fw' Rw2 Fw Rw R2 F2
Rw Uw2 R U' Fw' // HTR U/D centers (5)
F2 B' Uw' R2 L F Uw // HTR centers (12)
F2 Rw2 U' Rw2 // 2e (16)
Fw2 // +1e (17)
U Rw2 // +1e (19)
U L2 D Fw2 // +1e, solve L/R centers (23)
D' U' R2 F Rw2 // +2e, create center bars (28)
B2 D' F' B' L B Rw' // solve centers and +2e, cancel into slice flip slice (35)
F' U L' F U' Rw' // reduction (41)
z2 y'
U2 L // EO (43)
D B2 U2 F' L2 [1] B2 U2 F' D // DR (52)
B L2 R2 D2 F L2 B' [2] F' // 5E (60)
[1] = U2 F2 D2 F2 U2 B2 (6-5/61) to 3E
[2] = B2 L' R D2 L R' (6-1/66) solves 3E



My second attempt was a DNF. I got to reduction in 38 but couldn't find anything for the 3x3 stage.



Spoiler: Third attempt (64 OBTM)



Scramble: L D' B' R U' B2 R' U' F2 R2 U' R2 D' L2 D L2 U R2 D L' D' Fw2 L2 Uw2 U' L D Rw2 Fw2 F2 D Rw2 Fw2 D2 Fw' U' R' D2 F Rw' F' Uw' F2 Uw2 R' D
Uw L' F2 Uw' Fw' R' Fw' // HTR LR centers (7/7)
B Rw2 F' D2 Rw // HTR centers + 1 edge (5/12)
Uw2 // 2 edges (1/13)
Fw2 // 3 edges (1/14)
U Fw2 // 4 edges (2/16)
F' U Fw2 // 6 edges (3/19)
F U2 D2 F' Uw R D2 R' Uw // 8 edges, force 2e2e (9/28)
R F L D F' L' Fw2 // reduction (7/35)
y2
(B' D2 L U F') // EO (5/5)
(D R' U L U L U') // DR (7/12)
L' F2 L D2 L' D2 (*) L U2 L' B2 F2 R' // HTR 2e2e + e-slice (12/24)
(*) D2 B2 D2 F2 U2 F2 // solve 2e2e (4/28)
DR part: L' [1] F2 L D2 L' B2 D2 F2 U2 F2 L U2 L' [2] B2 F2 R' [3] // solve e-slice (6-5/29)
// [1]: M' [2]: M' [3]: M2
R' D2 L B2 L' U2 B2 D2 F2 D2 L F2 R' F2 B2 R L2 // rewrite DR part without slices

Final solution: Uw L' F2 Uw' Fw' R' Fw' B Rw2 F' D2 Rw Uw2 Fw2 U Fw2 F' U Fw2 F U2 D2 F' Uw R D2 R' Uw R F L D F' L' Fw2 y2 R' D2 L B2 L' U2 B2 D2 F2 D2 L F2 R' F2 B2 R L2 U L' U' L' U' R D' F U' L' D2 B (64)





Spoiler: Fourth attempt (57 OBTM)



Scramble: B' L B2 R2 U D L' B L B2 D R2 L2 D B2 U2 R2 F2 R2 D' Rw2 B R2 Uw2 D' Fw2 D L2 B2 Uw2 L2 D' F' Rw Fw2 Rw R' D Uw R2 Uw B R' U
R Uw' R2 Uw // LR center HTR (4/4)
Rw2 U Rw U2 D2 Rw // Center HTR, avoid OLL parity, 2 edges (6/10)
Uw2 // 4 edges (1/11)
B Uw2 // 5 edges (2/13)
R2 D' B Uw2 // 7 edges (4/17)
R D' F2 B2 U' Fw2 // 8 edges, pre-reduction (6/23)
F2 L R B' D B' Uw2 // reduction (7/30)
z2 x
B2 L2 D' B' // EO (4/34)
(U' L2 D' F2 U' F2 B2 U L') // DR (9/43)
(D' F2 B2 U2 L2 U2 L2 D') // 3E (8/51)
3x3x3 stage portion: B2 L2 D' B' D L2 U2 L2 [*] U2 B2 F2 D L U' B2 F2 U F2 D L2 U
[*] U L R' F2 L' R U (7-1/57) solves 3E

Final solution: 
R Uw' R2 Uw Rw2 U Rw U2 D2 Rw Uw2 B Uw2 R2 D' B Uw2 R D' F2 B2 U' Fw2 F2 L R B' D B' Uw2 z2 x B2 L2 D' B' D L2 U2 L2 U L R' F2 L' R U' B2 F2 D L U' B2 F2 U F2 D L2 U



My fourth attempt, 57 OBTM, is my best 4x4 FMC result so far. 
The previous UWR was 65, according to the wiki. If that's accurate, I broke it by 8 moves!


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## Cubing Forever (Feb 9, 2021)

A typical but lucky FMC attempt

L2 D2 B D2 // 2x2x2 Block
U' B2 D' B U B' // 2x2x3 Block
R D R' D2 // F2L '1
F' R F R2 F' R2 F //F2L
R2 B' R' B' D B D' R B //OLL
R' F2 R U D' F2 U' D R F2 R2 //3e

41 ETM

Ending F2L differently,

L2 D2 B D2 // 2x2x2 Block
U' B2 D' B U B' // 2x2x3 Block
R D R' D2 // F2L '1
D R D' R' F D' F' D //F2L
D R2 D2 F D F' D R2 D' //OLL
D2 r' D R' D R D' r D2 B R' B' // 3c3e 

43 ETM

critique this please


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## Kit Clement (Feb 9, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> A typical but lucky FMC attempt
> 
> L2 D2 B D2 // 2x2x2 Block
> U' B2 D' B U B' // 2x2x3 Block
> ...



First off, including the scrambles always helps. I made one with cube explorer: R2 D2 B R B R2 L2 U' F U R2 B' R B (14 optimal? Are you generating purposefully easy scrambles?)

First: why did you AUF on OLL? You could have cancelled 3 moves between F2L/OLL and another 3 between OLL/PLL for a 35:

L2 D2 B D2 // 2x2x2 Block
U' B2 D' B U B' // 2x2x3 Block
R D R' D2 // F2L '1
F' R F R2 F' R2 F //F2L
F' R' F' U F U' R F //OLL
F' R F' R' F' R' F' R F2 R' //PLL

Going earlier, note that you have a 2x2x2 block far sooner than you say:

L2 //2x2x2 block

After this, you seem to want to extend the 2x2x3 normally, but it comes at making one of your pairs (blue-orange-yellow) difficult to preserve later. I think it's easier to work on this 2x2x1 extension first:

B2 D2 //+square

And then pace the blue-orange-white pair. You can now use this 1x2x3 to create a PS-F2L

U' B' U B' //PS F2L

You're now incredibly close to getting a skeleton, we can now focus on solving the green-red edge in a way that solves all edges:

D2 F D F' D' B //5c

This leaves 13 to 5 corners, which is a pretty good solve. Insertion finder gets a 25 for this when only using pure comms (24 if you use longer comms): https://fewestmov.es/if/8d5dd489479f724c7211bec0865266b7

Another interesting finish is by seeing some pseudo-slotting stuff at the PS F2L - notice you have a pseudo-pair built one move before the PS F2L-1 is built, so if you pick up after that step, you can first insert the edge, then insert the pseudo-pair and leave 3c in 16 moves:

L2 //2x2x2 block
B2 D2 //+square
U' B' U //F2L-1.5
D B' D B U F D2 F' U' D2 //3c

Insertion finder gives this an optimal finish of 23: https://fewestmov.es/if/779b0a88e58ddd1deaac4066f98eb262

I would try to give you advice using the F2L-1 that you gave, but the EO is just not good in that state to get good finishes. If we back up a bit to this point though:

L2 D2 B D2 // 2x2x2 Block

Notice that you're 1 move away from a 2x2x3. In your solution, you do:

U' B2 D' B U B' // 2x2x3 Block

Which is 6 moves to make a 2x2x3 instead, just to preserve a pair. Additionally, just doing the 1 move to finish the 2x2x3 and breaking the pair gives you much better EO (only 2 bad edges from Petrus orientation) so using 5 moves for a pair and bad edges is definitely not worthwhile. If we try that start instead:

L2 // 2x2x2 Block
D2 B D2 B2 // 2x2x3 Block

Notice that there are a lot of ways to finish the Petrus EO and get some pairs along the way too. One example:

D' F D2 F' // EO+pair

This is only 4 extra moves and is a lot easier to work with this EO. The parity is bad on this case though, so it doesn't lead to a great finish (that I can see, at least), but all other things considered equal, this is much better to work with than your 2x2x3 marked substep.

Also, if you don't know how to use NISS yet, you should. I didn't use it in any of these examples (mostly because this scramble was super easy already to find continuations on) but it will make your options for continuations much more plentiful and make it easier to work with pseudo-blocks.


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## Cubing Forever (Feb 9, 2021)

Thanks kit!! This is actually a CSTimer scramble from 2 days ago. I'll learn NISS sometime. I did that AUF before the OLL bc I usually screw up the lefty version of the OLL alg. EO didn't cross my mind because of the 14 move F2L-1. As for the AUF before the U perm, I'm stupid lol


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## carcass (Feb 18, 2021)

If I learn one method just for FMC, should it be Petrus, ZZ, Roux, or something else?


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## trangium (Feb 18, 2021)

carcass said:


> If I learn one method just for FMC, should it be Petrus, ZZ, Roux, or something else?


Most of the top solvers use Domino Reduction in most of their solves, so learn Domino Reduction. A guide for Domino Reduction can be found at 








A Domino Reduction Guide for FMC


Hi everyone! After seeing all the hype around Domino Reduction, Tommaso Raposio and I have decided to write a complete guide about it. After a month or so, our work is finally done! We aim to prove to everyone that the myth that DR is "difficult" is absolutely not true. Even if you are not into...




www.speedsolving.com


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## Cubing Forever (Feb 23, 2021)

Hey guys, I tried DR for the first time. I achieved DR but I don't know where to go
U R D2 U' F2 R2 D //p222 U... (cubing.net) 

can anyone end this and get a sub 50??


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## xyzzy (Feb 23, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> Hey guys, I tried DR for the first time. I achieved DR but I don't know where to go
> U R D2 U' F2 R2 D //p222 U... (cubing.net)
> 
> can anyone end this and get a sub 50??


I kinda doubt you can start from a 44-move DR and finish in only 6 more moves…

Here's my own DR attempt for that scramble:
U (B2 U') // EO on U-D axis (3/3)
F // orient most of red face & solve two S-slice edges (1/4)
(R L' B' L' B) // left with 3 twisted corners and one S-slice edge (5/9)
(L F' L' F') // easy DR case (4/13)
(R U2 R' L' F2 R L2 U2) // orange layer (8/21)
(U2 F' U' F U R F R' F' U2 R' U R U' L') // F perm (15−2/34)

(I'm still pretty bad at DR (both in getting to DR, and in continuing after DR) so take this with a grain of salt.)

If you're going to do DR, it's not that useful to have a purely blockbuilding start because that locks out most of the moves you'd want to use to influence EO. For example, with a 2×2×2 block in DBL, that leaves the U, R, F faces free, and you get to use the F move for EO. At first glance it might seem like you get to flip four edge pieces at once with F moves, so there's no difference with doing EO right at the start, but the difference is that now you can no longer directly move bad edges to the DF or LF positions to flip them because the block is in the way. Also, even if you are going to blockbuild, you don't need to build "real" blocks; you can just build blocks out of oriented pieces and ignore the actual colours on them.

The power of DR comes from how you can affect corner orientation in very few moves when you _don't_ have to preserve the belt. In normal solving, Sunes seem like pretty fast algs (7 moves makes it the shortest ZBLL), but with DR, you have even shorter "algs" for changing corner orientation: R U R', R U' R', and R U2 R' (3 moves).


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## DNF_Cuber (Feb 23, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> Hey guys, I tried DR for the first time. I achieved DR but I don't know where to go
> U R D2 U' F2 R2 D //p222 U... (cubing.net)
> 
> can anyone end this and get a sub 50??


I'm bad at DR but you want to do EO a lot sooner than that. Blockbuilding before EO is really just a limitation.


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## Cubing Forever (Feb 24, 2021)

Another question:

Should I solve a belt right after EO and preserve it while doing CO or should I try to solve the belt after solving CO?


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## xyzzy (Feb 24, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> Another question:
> 
> Should I solve a belt right after EO and preserve it while doing CO or should I try to solve the belt after solving CO?


Solve 3/4 of the belt after EO, while forcing 3 or 4 twisted corners, then solve the last belt piece together with CO. If you know NISS, it's usually not too hard to set up to one of the 3-move cases.


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## Kit Clement (Feb 24, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> Another question:
> 
> Should I solve a belt right after EO and preserve it while doing CO or should I try to solve the belt after solving CO?



Solving the belt directly is a waste of time given that you need to break it to finish CO. Using the simple triggers that xyzzy mentioned and setting up to those is the simplest way to go from EO to DR.


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## Cubing Forever (Feb 24, 2021)

R B2 U2 F //EO(Somewhat) D2... (cubing.net)
I got stuck again.....please help me
Btw I don't know NISS and I get confused whenever I sit down to learn it.

E: I got DR:

R B2 U2 F //EO(Somewhat)
D2 R' U2 F2 U' F' L' B L B' //belt + force CO on top+ break EO(accidentally)
U' R' L F R L' //fix EO
(F R' U2 R F') D2 (F R' U2 R F') D2 //DR
U2 R L' B2 R' L F' B L2 F B' //223
U F2 U2 F2 //47 to 6c2e(I highly doubt this) lol

I'm stuck here


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## Cubing Forever (Mar 24, 2021)

First sub 40!!!!

Scramble: L2 F2 L2 B2 L' D2 R D2 F2 R' B L' F' R' U' R' U R F'

Solution:
R F U L2 R B U' R U2 R2 //223
U' r' U r2 B' r' //F2L-1
f R2 f' //LS
U' F U R U2 R' U' R U R' F' //OLLCP
L2 U F' B L2 F B' U L2//EPLL

can anyone critique this and give any other good continuations after the F2L-1?
(if you use NISS please indicate where to switch)

I didn't use WCA notation sorry

Also, I can't seem to wrap my head around insertions and NISS so can anybody help me understand it?
(this is after seeing J Perm's tutorial for the 50th time lol)

@xyzzy @Kit Clement


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## asacuber (Mar 26, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> First sub 40!!!!
> 
> Scramble: L2 F2 L2 B2 L' D2 R D2 F2 R' B L' F' R' U' R' U R F'
> 
> ...


Great job!
I was able to find this immediately, from your F2L
R F U L2 R B U' R U2 R2 //223
U' r' U r2 B' r' //F2L-1
f R2 f' //LS
f U' f' U' f U f' L' U L//Alternative OLL (cancels 2)
R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2//PLL

which gives 36 instead of 39!


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## Cubing Forever (Mar 27, 2021)

asacuber said:


> Great job!
> I was able to find this immediately, from your F2L
> R F U L2 R B U' R U2 R2 //223
> U' r' U r2 B' r' //F2L-1
> ...


Thanks!! Looks like I should learn more algs and techniques(especially NISS, rNISS and insertions).


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## xyzzy (Mar 27, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> First sub 40!!!!
> 
> Scramble: L2 F2 L2 B2 L' D2 R D2 F2 R' B L' F' R' U' R' U R F'
> 
> ...





asacuber said:


> f U' f' U' f U f' L' U L//Alternative OLL (cancels 2)
> R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2//PLL


Even better last layer:
R B U B' U' R' // EO
R B U' B' U' B U2 B' U' R' U' // ZBLL
15 moves for LL after cancelling the R' R.

Equivalently, on inverse:
(B U L U' L' B') // EO
(B L U' L' U L U L' U L U' L' B') // COLL
(U) // EPLL skip

(note: I'm not going to explain NISS here. I'll probably look at J Perm's video again because iirc it actually seemed like a pretty good explanation so I'm not sure which part of it you don't get.)

---

The above takes 18 moves for LSLL. Other options for LSLL I'd look into if this were my solve attempt and I had some time to spare:


Spoiler



_option (i)_
U' B U' B' // LS
This gives a pretty bad LL edge case (optimal to solve only the edges is 11 moves). None of the 6-mover or 7-mover EO algs give a nice ZBLL case afterwards either. On inverse, we have OLL into T perm:
U' B U' B' // LS (4/4)
(R B L' B L B2 R') // OLL (7/11)
(B2 D' R2 D B2 L2 D F2 D' L2) // T perm (10/21)

OLLCP on inverse gives a Z perm (with U2 AUF), so that's 4+8+12−2=22 moves for LSLL:
U' B U' B' // LS (4/4)
(R' U2 R U2 R B' R' B) // OLLCP (8/12)
(F2 B2 D' F2 B2 U' R2 F2 B2 L2 F2 B2) // Z perm (12−2/22)

You can even go for parity insertions, although this obviously doesn't count as an LSLL solution anymore, and it's not likely to result in anything good anyway.
… // F2L-1 (16/16)
U' B U' B' // LS (4/20)
U' // ab3c2e parity (5/21)
(My rule of thumb (targeting 30 moves) is that I don't bother with parity insertions for skeletons over 16-ish moves unless I'm desperate.)

_option (ii)_
On inverse, almost everything looks bad. It's an 8-mover F2L case, and there's no clean edge-only solution; you could do U B U B' U to solve a bunch of pieces, but that's just the same as the ab3c2e skeleton above. You can, however, join a pair to get a pseudoF2L then fix it immediately.

(U' B) B // F2L

Unfortunately, while this case resembles a 1LLL with an 11-move solution, it's not. Probably the best continuation there is to go straight into insertions (20 moves to 4c3e), but for an LSLL-y approach:
(U' B) B // F2L (3/3)
F' U' F @ U F R' F' R U // OLL (9/12)
@ = R' D' R U2 R' D R U2 // corner commutator (8−1/19)
Maybe there's a better corner insertion; didn't bother looking. Instead of doing a corner comm insertion, you can also just do an A perm at the end (which wastes 2 moves compared to this).

_option (iii)_
U2 B' R B2 U B' U' R' // VHLS (8/8)
B' U' B U' B' U2 B U2 R' U2 R U R' U R // some T 2GLL I don't know the optimal alg for (15/23)
This is pretty bad.

_option (iv)_
B U' B' U' B' R B R' // another VHLS alg (8/8)
R U2 R' U' R U' R' B U B' U B U2 B' U2 // another T 2GLL I don't know the optimal alg for (15−2/21)
See above remark.

That's about all I'd try for LSLL on this scramble before giving up and trying to find a different F2L-1/skeleton.



On an unrelated note, you should avoid using wide moves in your skeleton. Just write them as normal moves instead. (And yes, use WCA notation for wide moves if you're doing "serious" practice.)

PS: Mentions that are edited in after posting won't ping those people.


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## trangium (Mar 29, 2021)

I tried 5x5 FMC. I used the same method that I did for 4x4 FMC (HTR centers, finish centers while pairing edges, reduce to 3x3x3). Result: 102 moves!

Scramble: Bw Fw' B2 R Rw2 L Uw' Dw' Rw Uw2 Dw2 U Fw U2 Fw2 Bw2 U2 L' Lw U' Lw2 Rw F2 U L2 R Fw Lw2 L' Fw' Bw2 B' D B' Uw Bw2 Dw2 B2 Rw2 Lw' Fw Dw2 U2 D' Lw' Uw' D' U' R Lw2 F2 L' R2 Rw Uw B2 Lw' B Uw' Fw2

Rw B Dw' B Lw U D Lw' Fw U2 Bw' L Bw Lw // HTR L/R centers (14/14)
D' Fw' R D L Fw' D' L U' Bw' // HTR centers, 4-4-3, 2 wings (10/24)
R2 U' Fw2 // 3-3-3, 3 wings (3/27)
F' L' Dw2 // 3-2-2, 4 wings (3/30)
L2 F' D2 R Uw2 // 3-1-1, 6 wings (5/35)
D' B Rw2 // 2-1-2, 8 wings (3/38)
R' Uw U' B U B' Uw' // 10 wings (7/45)
U2 B2 Lw2 // 1-1-1, 12 wings (3/48)
U2 F U R' Bw2 // 0-1-1, 14 wings (5/53)
R2 D Rw2 U L' R2 U' Rw2 // 18 wings (8/61)
Dw L U' L' Dw' // 20 wings (5/66)
L' U2 D B L R2 U D R Dw2 // Reduction (10/76)
L' B2 L2 U L2 U B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 B2 U D' F2 D R D B2 U L2 U2 F' R2 B D // 3x3x3 stage (26/102)

3x3x3 stage explanation:
(D' B' R2 F) // EO (4)
L' (U2 L2 U' B2 D' R') // DR (11)
B2 L2 U L2 U (U') // HTR (17)
R2 D2 R2 // 2e2e + E-slice (20)

Skeleton: L' B2 L2 U L2 U R2 * D2 R2 U R D B2 U L2 U2 F' R2 B D
R2 B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 B2 D2 // Solve 2e2e (24)
Skeleton: L' B2 L2 U L2 U B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 B2 R2 * U R D B2 U L2 U2 F' R2 B D
* R2 U D' F2 U' D // Solve E-slice (26)

View at alg.cubing.net

The current UWR is 126 which is 24 moves more than my result. However, I'm not sure if this counts since this attempt literally took me 3 days.


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## Pyjam (Mar 29, 2021)

Congratulations. Very impressive. sub-100 might be possible.

Last week-end, I established a new UWR for 6x6 FMC with 226 HTM.

Scramble:
R F Uw2 Fw Rw' B' Lw Dw' 3Uw Bw' D 3Fw' F 3Uw2 Dw' Rw' Dw B' 3Uw2 Rw F' B' Fw D Dw2 Rw' Dw2 R' B 3Rw2 Bw Uw' U 3Rw Lw' Fw2 Rw F' B' D' Rw' Bw F Lw' F' Dw' 3Fw' L' 3Fw' Dw' L2 3Uw' R2 B' 3Rw' Rw' Fw2 F' 3Fw2 Uw Fw 3Rw' Rw 3Fw2 L Lw 3Rw' 3Fw' B2 3Rw2 U2 F Lw' D Fw L2 F 3Rw 3Fw2 Bw

// CENTERS
U2 l' 3U2 F' 3r L u2 R2 3u' 2u U' 2F' d2 B' u2 D F 3r
z' x' F U' 3R' l D 3r U r' F 3r U 3r' U B' r2
3r U 3r2 B l U' l2 3l F 3d2 R2 F2 3d' U // 2 = 50
F' B' 3R B' r2 l' F' D L2 x'
r2 3r' U F2 3r' r' 4r2 F 3r F2 3r F B' r2 l' D' l' // 3 = 78
5f2 U' 3L' U l2 3l U' 3R U2 r l B 3l D2 3r // 4 = 94
F2 3r f' b L2 f b' l F' 3L F' l' F 3L' // 6 = 110

// EDGES
y' R2 D r' (D' L' D) 3l2 // 1 = 117
F R' F' U R' U' l' // 2 = 124
R2 F R2 F2 R F r2 3r' // 3 = 132
F R F' r' L F L' F' 3r' // 4 = 141
U' R' U B L' B' 3L' // 5+6 = 149
U' L U F L' F' l' // 7 = 156
F' L' F D R' D' l' r' // 8 = 164
F R' F' r 3r 4r2 D 3L // 9 = 173
U' R2 U 3L2 r U' L2 U r2 3L // 10 = 185
F' L' F r l' U' L2 U B L B' 4r // 12 = 197 (+87)

// 3x3x3
z2 F2 R B R' B F2 // EO
L' U' (B' D B U' B' D' B') U // left block (+corner cycle)
D' L B2 L' D' L2 // middle slices
U2 R' U R U2 R U // Solved = 226 (+29)



trangium said:


> The current UWR is 126 which is 24 moves more than my result. However, I'm not sure if this counts since this attempt literally took me 3 days.


For me it's perfectly valid.
We're playing a serious game and we need time for it. 

It took me 3 days also.

I need to improved my skills for 3x3 FMC...


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## Cubing Forever (Apr 8, 2021)

scramble: U R2 D F2 D' L2 U B2 F2 R B R' F' L2 D2 L U' L' B R

z2 B2 D' U' B2 D2 //1x2x3
U D' F' U2 D R' U' D U' B' U B2 //F2L-1
R' U' R2 B' R' B D//F2L+EO
//25 to 3e2c2c

I'm stuck. There are no good insertions and the ZBLL is just too long.


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## Kit Clement (Apr 8, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> scramble: U R2 D F2 D' L2 U B2 F2 R B R' F' L2 D2 L U' L' B R
> 
> z2 B2 D' U' B2 D2 //1x2x3
> U D' F' U2 D R' U' D U' B' U B2 //F2L-1
> ...



Just something quick I found using your psF2L-1:

z2 B2 D' U' B2 //1x2x3 (4/4)
U D F' U2 D R' U2 D B' U B2 //F2L-1 (11/15)
B U2 B' U R' U' R U R' U R U2 D //3c (12/27)


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## RedstoneTim (Apr 8, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> scramble: U R2 D F2 D' L2 U B2 F2 R B R' F' L2 D2 L U' L' B R
> 
> z2 B2 D' U' B2 D2 //1x2x3
> U D' F' U2 D R' U' D U' B' U B2 //F2L-1
> ...


A few general tips:
- Don't use rotations: Although they do not count towards the movecount (it's 24, not 25 moves), they make NISS and move cancelling (if they're used inside the solution) harder.
- Cancel moves: I'd recommend you to write down a skeleton without any comments. It becomes quite obvious which moves can be cancelled then: z2 B2 D' U' B2 *D2* U *D'* F' U2 D R' *U'* D *U'* B' U B2 R' U' R2 B' R' B D, so it's actually just 22 now!
- Learn and use NISS: It can be really helpful for situations like these where you just cannot find anything better.
- If the finish doesn't look good, try to find a different start or change earlier parts of your solution.

Specifically for the solve, a few tips:
You can actually do what you did in one move less by replacing _R' U' R2 B' R' B _with _R' F R' F' R2_. You might know this from Dylan Wang's 21 NR, which could've been a 20 if he had used that alg.
If you do use your alg though, you can slightly modify it: R' U' R2 *L'* B' R' B *L*. This gives a better ZBLL case. You can actually reduce to 3c from here using a back antisune: R' U2 R U R' U R U'. This sadly only gives 32 to 3c, which ends in a 37, but I think it's still a good example of how knowing lots of different insertion algorithms can help you to force better cases, even if it seems like you couldn't do anything else.
For a solution with a lower movecount, you could either do what Kit Clement recommended above after your F2L-1 or go back further and do the following:

z2 B2 D' U' B2 D // Dr:y (5/5)
U F' U2 D R' U2 D B' // fE + Dr:y' (8/13)
U2 B' U B U2 B2 // EO() + DLf:y' + BLE (6/19)
U2 R' U R U2 R' U' R D // 3c (7/28)

I've oriented the edges a bit earlier in the solve, which created some blocks, which in turn lead to 3c. This is an example of what I meant with "change earlier parts of your solution" before.


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## Cubing Forever (Apr 8, 2021)

I actually know how NISS works but when I try to do it, I usually end up getting a scrambled cube on the inverse.


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## Kit Clement (Apr 8, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> I actually know how NISS works but when I try to do it, I usually end up getting a scrambled cube on the inverse.



To make sure you're not misscrambling, this is what you should do if you want to do NISS here. I'm taking your moves and translating them without the rotation, as rotations make NISS very difficult.

B2 U' D' B2 //1x2x3 (4/4)
U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2 //F2L-1 (11/15)

So now, if you want to switch to the inverse, you start with a solved cube and do your current solution backwards, and then do the inverse scramble:

B2 D' B U' D2 L D2 U' F D' U' B2 D U B2
R' B' L U L' D2 L2 F R B' R' F2 B2 U' L2 D F2 D' R2 U'

We can now continue our work by doing some moves on inverse:

B2 U' D' B2 //1x2x3 (4/4)
U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2 //psF2L-1 (11/15)
(U') //Fix pseudo (1/16)
(L' D2 L) //EO (3/19

Say we wanted to switch back now. We now perform only the moves done on inverse backwards, then the normal scramble, then all of the moves we did on the normal scramble, forwards:

L' D2 L U
U R2 D F2 D' L2 U B2 F2 R B R' F' L2 D2 L U' L' B R
B2 U' D' B2 U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2 

And now we can continue with the normal scramble! For the sake of exercise, let's just finish the solve with a standard speedsolving approach so we know how to work with piecing a NISS solve back together.

B2 U' D' B2 //1x2x3 (4/4)
U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2 //psF2L-1 (11/15)
(U') //Fix pseudo (1/16)
(L' D2 L) //EO (3/19
D B D B' //F2L (4/23)
B' L B R' B' L' B R //OLL (7/30)
F2 U L' D L' D' L U' F2 R' D R (12/42)

To piece this together as a full solution, we do all the moves done on the normal scramble first, then followed by all of the inverse sequences backwards, starting from the bottom to the top:

B2 U' D' B2 U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2 D B D B2 L B R' B' L' B R F2 U L' D L' D' L U' F2 R' D R L' D2 L U

And that sequence solves the cube.


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## Cubing Forever (Apr 19, 2021)

My 3rd sub 40 ever!!(First one with DR)

Scramble: U2 D2 F2 B2 R D L' B D' F' R2 L2 B' R' F L2 D' U2 R L

U' F' D F U F' R F R' L' D2 L D2 L' //Some DR Blockbuilding
D L B U B' D B U' //DR
F2 B' R2 U' D L2 D //AB5C

skeleton:
U' F' D F U F' R F R' @ L' D2 L D2 L' # D L B U B' D B U' F2 B' R2 U' D L2 D
@ = B2 L' F' L B2 L' F L (cancels 2)
# = L' U' L D L' U L D' (cancels 4)

Final:
U' F' D F U F' R F R' B2 L' F' L B2 L' F D2 L D2 L2 U' L D L' U L2 B U B' D B U' F2 B' R2 U' D L2 D
39 ETM

No. of cancellations: 6

I learnt how to do insertions last week. This is my first solve with insertions.


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## the dnf master (May 6, 2021)

I did an FMC solve, and I am having trouble with insertions.
Scramble: R' U' F R D L D F2 D L2 U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 R2 U2 L' F' D' U' B D B R' U' F
Skeleton: D F R2 B D L' F2 L F D F2 D' F U' R U R2 F R F U' L2 U2 F'
Can someone tell me how optimally solve the last 3 corners? I did one commutator which is L' R U' R' U L U' R U R', but it only works at the end, so I cannot cancel anything. Am I doing something wrong?


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## Kit Clement (May 6, 2021)

the dnf master said:


> I did an FMC solve, and I am having trouble with insertions.
> Scramble: R' U' F R D L D F2 D L2 U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 R2 U2 L' F' D' U' B D B R' U' F
> Skeleton: D F R2 B D L' F2 L F D F2 D' F U' R U R2 F R F U' L2 U2 F'
> Can someone tell me how optimally solve the last 3 corners? I did one commutator which is L' R U' R' U L U' R U R', but it only works at the end, so I cannot cancel anything. Am I doing something wrong?



Starting from your original skeleton:






Insertion Finder - Fewest Moves







fewestmov.es





With your 3c after doing the 10 mover:






Insertion Finder - Fewest Moves







fewestmov.es


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## the dnf master (May 6, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> Starting from your original skeleton:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, but when I was looking at the cube, I was unable to find that commutator myself while looking at the 5 corner skeleton, and when I did it at the end, it did not work, which is weird since I thought that insertions can work anywhere in the skeleton.


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## Kit Clement (May 6, 2021)

the dnf master said:


> Thanks, but when I was looking at the cube, I was unable to find that commutator myself while looking at the 5 corner skeleton, and when I did it at the end, it did not work, which is weird since I thought that insertions can work anywhere in the skeleton.



Definitely not. If you could do insertions anywhere in the skeleton for the same effect, then doing R U L would be the same as R L U - if "L" works as an insertion in the R U sequence, then R U L does the same thing if insertions can be done at any point in the skeleton, which is obviously not true. This is because the corners you are trying to insert move around the cube as you walk through the skeleton, so you're solving completely different corners with the same commutator depending on when it is applied in the skeleton.


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## the dnf master (May 6, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> Definitely not. If you could do insertions anywhere in the skeleton for the same effect, then doing R U L would be the same as R L U - if "L" works as an insertion in the R U sequence, then R U L does the same thing if insertions can be done at any point in the skeleton, which is obviously not true. This is because the corners you are trying to insert move around the cube as you walk through the skeleton, so you're solving completely different corners with the same commutator depending on when it is applied in the skeleton.


Oh ok thanks, that cleared it up for me


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## the dnf master (May 7, 2021)

I also have a question about pseudo blocks, when you have a premove in both the normal and inverse scramble while doing niss, how do you make it a normal solution?
So essentially I have a scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 L2 F' D2 R2 F U2 L2 B L2 F' R' 
For a pseudo 2 by 2 by 2, I do F D’ L R2 F2, and go to the inverse scramble and do an F' to solve the 2 by 2 by 2, then do a B2, and switch to normal scramble to do a B2, solving the 2x2x3, later switching again and do U’ L2 U2 L’ U’ L2, which f2l-1. However, when I try to fuse these into one solution normally, it doesn't work, so what do I do?


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## xyzzy (May 7, 2021)

the dnf master said:


> I also have a question about pseudo blocks, when you have a premove in both the normal and inverse scramble while doing niss, how do you make it a normal solution?
> So essentially I have a scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 L2 F' D2 R2 F U2 L2 B L2 F' R'
> For a pseudo 2 by 2 by 2, I do F D’ L R2 F2, and go to the inverse scramble and do an F' to solve the 2 by 2 by 2, then do a B2, and switch to normal scramble to do a B2, solving the 2x2x3, later switching again and do U’ L2 U2 L’ U’ L2, which f2l-1. However, when I try to fuse these into one solution normally, it doesn't work, so what do I do?


I don't see any pseudo222 after doing F D' L R2 F2, so I'm going to guess you transcribed parts of your solution incorrectly.

Also NISS is a more general version of premoves; you don't need both.


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## the dnf master (May 7, 2021)

Oh sorry, I forgot to include the last part of the scramble, which is B2 U' R D R2 U' B2 F' R' U' F


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## Kit Clement (May 7, 2021)

You can't translate back to all normal or all inverse mid-solve and retain the progress you have. When you have just an F2L-1 solved and try to shift your NISS back to the normal scramble entirely, all it will guarantee is that 7 edges and 3 corners are solved, but it won't guarantee them to be arranged in an F2L-1.


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## the dnf master (May 7, 2021)

So like how do you put together all of the normal and inverse moves to get one solution. I know that you just reverse the inverse moves, but when I have a pseudo block, it doesn't work.
Basically I have a scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 L2 F' D2 R2 F U2 L2 B L2 F' R' B2 U' R D R2 U' B2 F' R' U' F
And here is my solution up to F2l -1:
F D’ L R2 F2//pseudo 2x2x2(5/5)
(F’ B2)//pseudo 2x2x3(2/7)
B2//2x2x3(1/8)
(U’ L2 U2 L’ U’ L2 U’)//F2L-1(7/15)
What I want to do is put this as one solution, but I can't seem to do that without having it mess up.


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## Kit Clement (May 8, 2021)

All on normal, you would do F D' L R2 F2 B2 U L2 U L U2 L2 U B2 F, although this won't preserve your F2L-1.


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## the dnf master (May 8, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> All on normal, you would do F D' L R2 F2 B2 U L2 U L U2 L2 U B2 F, although this won't preserve your F2L-1.


Then how do I use pseudo blocks if I cannot preserve f2l-1 when I make my solution?


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## Kit Clement (May 8, 2021)

You keep using NISS until you have a skeleton.


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## ch_ts (May 8, 2021)

Do the following:
U L2 U L U2 L2 U
B2 F
(do the scramble here)
F D' L R2 F2
B2

and you continue from the f2l-1 position.

If your solution you found from there was QQQQQ
then your whole solution would be:
F D' L R2 F2
B2
QQQQQ
U L2 U L U2 L2 U
B2 F


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## the dnf master (May 8, 2021)

ch_ts said:


> Do the following:
> U L2 U L U2 L2 U
> B2 F
> (do the scramble here)
> ...


Thanks, although the skeleton did not look the same, I still had a 5 corner cycle. That is normal, right?

Ok so I finally finished the solve and got a 38, which should have been better if the skeleton was shorter, but I got the worst f2l case afterwards, but anyway here is my solution: F D' R2 L F2 B' L' B' L U' L2 U B L' B' L2 U' L2 U L U L2 U L D' L2 D2 L D R2 D' L' U2 R2 U D' F B2


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## Cubing Forever (May 17, 2021)

Yes!!! Another (linear) sub 40!! (first one with ZZ-CT!!)

Scramble: B' U L2 F' L2 D' L' F2 R2 B U2 F2 R' U2 F2 L2 D2 B2 L2 D2

F' L B2 D2 F U F' L2 //p223
B2 D L U' L' B F' L F B' //F2L-1+EO
R' F' L F R F' L' F //TSLE
D U2 R2 B2 U' F2 D L2 B2 D' F2 U2 D' //TTLL

Movecount: 39 HTM

So far I've had sub 40s with 4 methods i.e CFOP, Roux, Mehta and ZZ-CT
(I've had 3 sub 40s with Roux and two of them were for the RMS discord weekly comp. They aren't WCA legal since I used slice moves for LSE but I do count them as PBs.)

any tips anyone??


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## Cubing Forever (May 18, 2021)

I got my first NISS solve!!

Scramble: B2 F2 D2 B2 D L2 D B2 L2 U2 L2 U' R' F' U' L' D U' B' F2 U' L2

R' U' R D' R2 F' R' F L2 D//F2L-1
L2 D L D' L D L D' L B' L2 B L' //AB3c2flip (found on inverse)

Skeleton
R' U' R D' R2 F' # R' F L2 D L2 D L D' L D L D' L B' L2 B L'

Insertion:
# D2 R' L B2 R L' (6-2)

Skeleton:
R' U' R D' R2 F' D2 R' L B2 $ L' F L2 D L2 D L D' L * D L D' L B' L2 B L'

Insertions:
$ B' L' F L B L' F' L (8-6)
* L2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 L2 D (8-2)

Final:
R' U' R D' R2 F' D2 R' L B L' F L B L D L2 D L D' L' F2 R2 U R2 F2 L2 D2 L D' L B' L2 B L'

Moves: 35

I just got really lucky with the skeletons and insertions lol
any tips or critiques?


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## SpeedCubeReview (May 30, 2021)

I've been on and off trying to get better at DR. Some days I try to ONLY do DR and I either feel like I get lucky or I waste time I could have spent doing block building. I'm curious if the FMCers here feel that DR really is the best method or if it just has a big following and top solvers would be getting those numbers either way. There is no question that the past few years have shown a huge growth in FMC.


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## WoowyBaby (May 30, 2021)

I highly, highly doubt top-level solvers would be averaging the same that they do without and kind of domino reduction as they do when they're doing only domino reduction in 100% of their solves.

There has been so many advancements related to domino reduction, like better knowledge of getting into HTR, more edge cycle algorithms for insertions, and better filtering of good DR's (immediately finding something else if the DR is too long or there are bad corners), just to name a few.

The best people in the Fewest Moves Facebook group literally globally average 22-23 moves. I actually don't quite understand it myself really, because my global average is around 26-27 moves, which is pretty far off of that, but I guess the top-level solvers just have had more deliberate practice with FMC (I know I could get down to a 25.0 global average if I really tried, but I'm not doing FMC much these days as I'm focusing on other things).

If you really want to test it, grab what you think are the best FMC solvers, and make them do a non-DR ao12 and a full DR ao12 and see which is better. Although this is a bit flawed, since the best FMCers don't practice non-DR techniques as much, likely because they think of pure blockbuilding as just a waste of their precious one hour of time. Doing nothing but farming and trying tons and tons of DR's is also more consistent since you're almost guaranteed to get a lucky one, but if you only try a few DR's and also look for blockbuilding solutions as well, you'll have less certainty you'll get a solution of, for example, 25 moves or less within the hour (if you're top-level).

If you think you're bad at DR, just keep doing it. If you want to also do blockbuilding solutions, that's fine too, and having a more open mindset for different kinds of solutions is probably healthier. But until you can get a sub-30 ao12 or so doing only domino solutions comfortably, then it's best to figure out why you think you're wasting time doing DR instead of blockbuilding solutions. Are you trying to use 14 move DR's? Are you trying to use DR's that have 10 move optimal corners? If you are getting really short DR's with good corners plenty often, then maybe change your approach once you're in DR. Perhaps immediately try doing HTR on normal and inverse scramble right when you've got to DR or something. I'm not sure.

Top-level FMCers use a varying degree of domino reduction in their solves. Some of them literally only try domino reduction and that's what 100% of their solutions are, some of them will pursue a blockbuilding-based solution if there's an easy couple squares, couple pairs, and EO in like six moves or something, some are more experienced and practiced with blockbuilding-based solutions so they spend more deliberate seeking them out, and some of them try crazy more rare FMC techniques and get really good solves with them, like building HTR blocks, doing edges first, partial DR, corner orientation, or blockino.

In summary, yes, DR-based solutions have seen a huge growth in FMC the past few years, and no, top-level FMCers would not average anywhere near what they do now without the developments of DR.


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## porkynator (May 31, 2021)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> I've been on and off trying to get better at DR. Some days I try to ONLY do DR and I either feel like I get lucky or I waste time I could have spent doing block building. I'm curious if the FMCers here feel that DR really is the best method or if it just has a big following and top solvers would be getting those numbers either way. There is no question that the past few years have shown a huge growth in FMC.



tl;dr DR is a good method, maybe the best, but maybe it is not for everyone.

It is undeniable that many people are getting extremely good using mostly or only DR. But this is not the case for me. I don't think I have a problem with DR itself, I grasped the method quite well, but it's the mindset of "spamming dozens of EOs and DRs until you get lucky" that does not work for me.

Here is my story with DR:
I have not practiced DR seriously until mid- or late-2019. Previously I would only use DR occasionally if I saw a good start. In my official 18 I literally got a 6 moves DR by chance while doing EO + blocks.
Around September 2019 I started doing DR-only attempts. It was rough at the beginning, and I could rarely finish a solve within one hour, but that was expected. But soon it payed out and in 3 months or so I was back at the same level that I was before DR (25-26). At that point I was very motivated and I kept going.
But at the beginning of 2020 things changed. Or rather, they did not: after another 4 months I was stuck at the same level, just a little less consistent than I was before DR; I got more very good solves (22-23) but also more bad solves (28+). That was very demoralizing, and most importantly I did not (and do not) enjoy doing FMC with DR only as much as I enjoyed doing it the "old way".
So In the last year I have slowed down with my FMC practice - not entirely out of frustration, but because I do enjoy other events too  . Lately I have been trying to get back to old style FMC with some DR (after all, "old style" is about trying everything you know), but without much success (in the last 8 attempts or so I got something like 7 DNFs).


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## Jack314 (May 31, 2021)

SpeedCubeReview said:


> I've been on and off trying to get better at DR. Some days I try to ONLY do DR and I either feel like I get lucky or I waste time I could have spent doing block building. I'm curious if the FMCers here feel that DR really is the best method or if it just has a big following and top solvers would be getting those numbers either way. There is no question that the past few years have shown a huge growth in FMC.



100% DR is good enough for low 21 global averages (possibly sub 21 too). If your not having success with DR there are probably some areas that you are not good at but could easily improve. Some tips: (1) Do DR 100% of time. (2) Do HTR 100% of time (or close to). (3) Make sure you can find all sub 5 EOs on a scramble (With the possible exception of some of the more complicated NISS EOs). (4) Check heaps of EOs. (5) Switch after DR-4C4E, DR-4C2E for 5 or less moves. Switch after DR-3C2E for 6 or less moves. (6) Make sure you are comfortable with solving these DR-4C4E cases: 


R, B2 L, F2 D2 R, B2 U L, L2 D R, F2 D R, R2 U R, R2 F2 R, R2 U2 R, F2 B2 L, L2 U' D R, B2 U2 D2 R, B2 U' D2 R, F2 U2 D' L, R2 F2 U2 R, F2 U D R, L2 B2 D R, B2 R2 U L, R2 F2 U R, F2 L2 D R, L2 F2 U L, B2 L2 D L, R2 B2 D L, F2 R2 U R, R2 U2 B2 L, F2 R2 D2 R, R2 D' F2 R, F2 U' F2 R, L2 D' F2 L, B2 U' F2 L, L2 U' B2 R, B2 D' F2 L, L2 U B2 R, B2 D B2 R, R2 L2 D' R, F2 U2 F2 R, R' D2 F2 R, R' U2 F2 R.

(7) Learn the 7 move or less corner cases here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lYQnaF1VuiR7EDfi1DUcIJM0FYC2B3mo/view?usp=sharing.
(8) On the majority of scrambles I only try finding finishes for DRs where DR length + quarter turns in corner solution < 14. In your case you might want to replace 14 with 15 or 16. (9) HTR triggers: R, R U2 R, R U2 L, R U2 F2 R, R U2 D2 L, R U2 F2 U2 R. (8) Some HTR edge algorithms: R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 (and its 15 other variants), R2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U2 R2 F2 (and its 15 other variants), R2 F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 F2 D2 (and its 15 other variants), R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 (and its variants), L2 R2 U2 L2 R2 D2 (and its variants including the 8 moves double turn algorithms which solve this case).


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## the dnf master (Jun 4, 2021)

I want to find some 3 corner skeleton examples, so I can get better used with insertions. Can someone give me a good source for that?


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## Waffles (Jun 4, 2021)

I just got a 27 move FMC solve and I felt like I was fairly efficient (except for an 8 move insert) and I felt like it was a fairly easy scramble.

F2 R2 U’ R2 F2 U’ B D’ R2 D B2 U2 L2 D’ L2 R2


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## trangium (Jun 4, 2021)

Here are some examples from my previous solves that you can use to practice:



the dnf master said:


> I want to find some 3 corner skeleton examples, so I can get better used with insertions. Can someone give me a good source for that?





Spoiler: Example 1



Scramble: R' U' F U2 R2 F2 L2 B2 D2 F2 D R2 D R' B L B' D' U' F' R F R' U' F

D F2 // Pseudo 1x2x3 (2/2)
R B' R2 // Pseudo 2x2x3 (3/5)
L' // F2L-1 missing 1 corner (1/6)
F D U2 F D' F' U2 L D' L' D F2 // All but 3 corners (12/18)
U' R // Undo premoves (2/20)





Spoiler: Example 2



Scramble: R' U' F D2 L2 D R2 F2 D F2 L2 D B2 R U L F D L' R F2 R' D B2 R' U' F

(L’ U2) // Square (2/2)
B2 F2 U’ // Two 2x2x1s + Edge (3/5)
(D R’ B R2 D2 R’) // 2x2x2 (6/11)
(L’) F2 // F2L-1 (2/13)
D2 L D’ L’ D L D L’ // L3C (6/19)

Skeleton: B2 F2 U' F2 D2 L D’ L’ D L D R D2 R2 B’ R D’ U2 L





Spoiler: Example 3



R' U' F U2 F2 D U L2 B2 F2 U' B2 D' F' U2 R' F2 D' B' U' F' L' D2 U R' U' F

U // pair (1/1)
(F' D2) // 2x2x1 (2/3)
(L' F2) // pseudo 2x2x2 (2/5)
(R2 B' R B) // pseudo 2x2x3 (4/9)
F' // correct pseudoness (1/10)
* R2 D2 // F2L-1 (2/12)
B R' B' // 3e3c (2/14)

* F B' D F' D' F' B R F R' // insert edges (7/21)

Skeleton: U B' D F' D' F' B R F R D2 B R' B2 R' B R2 F2 L D2 F





Spoiler: Example 4



Scramble: R' U' F R2 B2 F2 D2 R2 F2 U' R2 B2 R' F' D L R D' U' R D' L2 F' R' U' F

(L2 D B2 L) // EO (4/4)
D2 L2 F2 D L2 B // DR (6/10) – The first L2 is inserted to give better continuation
D' U2 R2 U2 D2 B2 R2 // 3c (7/17)

Skeleton: D2 L2 F2 D L2 B D' U2 R2 U2 D2 B2 R2 L' B2 D' L2





Spoiler: Example 5



Scramble: R' U' F L2 F2 R2 D' L2 D' F2 D2 U L' F' L2 B2 U2 B L' B U L' R' U' F

R B D' U2 L' // EO + pseudo 2x2x2 (5/5)
D B2 D' B D R2 // 2x2x3 (6/11)
D B D' B2 D' B2 // 2x2x3 + 2 squares (6/17)
D' B D' B2 U // 3c (5/22)





Spoiler: Example 6



Scramble: R' U' F U L2 U R2 U' R2 D' B2 U R D' B2 U' R U2 F R2 U' F' U2 R' U' F

L D F U' F' // 2x2x2 (5/5)
(B R F R F') // 2x2x3 (5/10)
(B2 R' D B' D') // pseudo F2L-1 (5/15)
R B U R' U' R // 3c (6/21)

Skeleton: L D F U' F' R B U R' U' R D B D' R B2 F R' F' R' B'





Spoiler: Example 7



Scramble: R' U' F R2 D' F2 U' L2 U' R2 D' F2 U2 R B F R2 D2 R2 U F D L' D' R' U' F

(L B2 D' R') // EO (4/4)
D B U // 1x2x3 (3/7)
(L2 F U2 F2) // 2x2x3 + 1x2x2 + 1x1x3 (4/11)
(B) // fluke DR (1/12)
(U' L2 D' L2 D U) // 3c (6-2/16)

Skeleton: D B D' L2 D L2 U B' F2 U2 F' L2 R D B2 L'





Spoiler: Example 8



Scramble: R' U' F B2 L2 R2 D R2 F2 D' B2 F2 D2 L B R D' L' U' B2 U B F' R' U' F

(R2 D' F2 R') // EO (4/4)
(D B2) // 1x2x3 (2/6)
(F2 D F' + U2 B U') // 2x2x3 (6/12)
(F' D B D B' F) // 3c (6/18)

Skeleton: F' B D' B' D' F U B' U2 F D' F2 B2 D' R F2 D R2





Spoiler: Bonus: 4 corners left



Scramble: R' U' F R2 U' L2 U2 B2 L2 D U R2 D' F D L U' R2 B R2 U' B' U' R' U' F

(L F) // square (2/2)
(U' L' U') // EO (3/5)
F R2 F L' F' // 2 more squares (5/10)
L' B2 L B2 // another square + pair (4/14)
L D2 F' R' // 4c (4/18)

Skeleton: F R2 F L' F' L' B2 L B2 L D2 F' R' U L U F' L'





Spoiler: Bonus: 5 corners left



Scramble: R' U' F D L2 D L2 F2 L2 D' R2 U2 B L' R' D L' B D2 U' B' R' U' R' U' F

(L R' F) // EO (3/3)
U2 L' // DR-3E1C (2/5)
(R2 F2 D2 L D' L') // DR (6/11)
(U' L2 U D B2 D') // 5C (6/17)

Skeleton: U2 L' D B2 D' U' L2 U L D L' D2 F2 R2 F' R L'



You can check whether you found the optimal insertion with Insertion Finder.


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## the dnf master (Jun 10, 2021)

I got a 31
Scramble: R' U' F B2 D' F2 D L2 D2 U F2 U B2 R2 B L' B R2 F L2 R D2 B D R' U' F
(D2 L U R2 F’)//pseudo 2x2x2 (5/5)
F’//2x2x2 (1/6)
(L2 B’ U2)//2x2x3 (3/9)
F L’ B2 L F’//F2l-1 (5/14)
U B’ U’ L’ B L B’ U B2 U’ B’//AB4C (11/25)
Skeleton: L’ B2 L F’ U B’ * U’ L’ B L B’ U B2 U’ B’ U2 B L2 F R2 U' L' D2
Solution: L’ B2 L F’ U B’ L’ D’ L R U’ L’ U R’ U’ D B L B’ U B2 U’ B’ U2 B L2 F R2 U' L' D2
tips on how this could improve would be appreciated


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## Jihan Lee (Jul 2, 2021)

New to here, Hello 



R’ U’ F D’ F D R L2 B R F2 U’ L’ F2 D2 B2 D2 R F2 R L2 D2 R’ U’ F

R’ (R2 U2 R) // EO (4)
(F D) F B2 U B U’ // DR (11)
(F2 D2 L2 F R2 B2 U2 F2 U2 F’) // 21 to E slice

replace all the moves after DR to (B2 U2 B2 R’ F2 U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 B’) (+1/22)

Solution : R' F B2 U B U' B L2 B2 R2 F2 U2 F2 R B2 U2 B2 D' F' R' U2 R2 (22)


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## Cubing Forever (Jul 3, 2021)

I accidentally got a FMC PB while doing a ZZ example solve

Scramble: F' D2 U2 B' F' D2 F' U2 L2 D2 F' R D2 B' U' R2 U' L2 R' B
R2 U D2 R L2 F R' D //EOLine
R' U2 L' U2 L' U L U L' //LB
R U2 R' U R2 U2 R2 D r' U2 r D' R2 U' R //RB cancel into ZBLL

32 HTM

Insertion Finder - Fewest Moves tfw you beat IF


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## Cubing Forever (Jul 3, 2021)

Sorry for double post but is DR really necessary for sub 30 and beyond or is blockbuilding and NISS enough?


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 3, 2021)

Cubing Forever said:


> Sorry for double post but is DR really necessary for sub 30 and beyond or is blockbuilding and NISS enough?


Blockbuilding and NISS are plenty enough for sub 30. DR is probably necessary now to be consistently world class, but blockbuilding and NISS can definitely take you easily below 30 global average if you get good at them.


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## Jihan Lee (Jul 10, 2021)

I got really bad scramble. Can anyone find better off this?

R' U' F U F R2 U' L2 D L2 D2 B2 U' B2 U F D' B' L' B U F' U R' U' F



Spoiler: my solution



R’ B’ U2 R’ D F’ // EO (6)
U’ (R U2 L D’ R’ D’) // DR (13)
(R U2 B2 L2 D2 R U2 L) // HTR (21)
(D2 F2 R2 F2) // finish (25)

Solution : R’ B’ U2 R’ D F’ U’ F2 R2 F2 D2 L’ U2 R’ D2 L2 B2 U2 R’ D R D L’ U2 R’ (25)


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## Cubing Forever (Jul 23, 2021)

First successful mean in the weekly comp. Any critiques?

R' U' F U' F L D' L B2 U B R B R2 F' R2 D2 F2 B L U' R' U' F


Spoiler



D B F2 L' B' // 2x2x2
L2 D' F2 D2 F' //2x2x3
F' D' F D L' D F L' F' //F2L-1
D B' L B L' D2 B' L B L' //AB2C3C3E
//# (D F2) B L' B' L2 D' F2 D2 F2 D' F D L' D F L' F' D B' L B L' D' B' L2 * (F U' F) U F2 L' B L'
//#B' D F2 D' B D F2 D' (8-4)
//*D' F U' F' D F U F' (8-5)

//FINAL: B' D F2 D' B D B L' B' L2 D' F2 D2 F2 D' F D L' D F L' F' D B' L B L' D' B' L2 D' F U' F' D F2 U F2 L' B L'
//41 moves



R' U' F D L' B' L' U' L2 U' D2 L' D' L2 D' B2 D' L2 B2 U B2 L2 F' R' U' F


Spoiler



D R' L F2 L' F D F U F' D' //2x2x3
U' R B R' //EO
U2 B2 U L U' L' R' U' R U' R' U' R U //AB3C3E
//# D R' L F2 L' F D F U F' U' D' R B R' * U2 B2 U L U' R' L' U' R U' R' U' R U
//#B U B' D B U' B' D' (8-2)
//*R' F2 D2 B2 L' D2 F2 U2 (8-3)

//FINAL: B U B' D B U' B' R' L F2 L' F D F U F' U' D' R B R2 F2 D2 B2 L' D2 F2 B2 U L U' R' L' U' R U' R' U' R U



R' U' F D2 F2 L D' B R' F2 B2 D' U2 R2 L2 B2 L2 U2 B L2 B R2 B2 R' U' F


Spoiler



z2 // orientation
U L2 B U2 L' R2 F // 2x2x2
R B2 U R' U2 B // 2x2x3
R U F' U F //EO
U R2 U' R U2 R2 U2 R //DR
//D R2 B D2 R' L2 F L B2 D L' D2 B L D F' D F D L2 D' L % D2 L2 D2 L
//% D B' L2 F' B D2 F D' (8-1)
//# D R2 B D2 R' L2 F L B2 D L' D2 B L D F' D F D L2 D' L D * B' L2 B F' D2 F D L2 D2 L
//#R' U R D R' U' R D' (8-3)
//*R' B' L2 B R B' L2 B (8-6)
//Final: R' U R D R' U' R' B D2 R' L2 F L B2 D L' D2 B L D F' D F D L2 D' L D R' B' L2 B R F' D2 F D L2 D2 L
//40 moves



41, 40, 40 = 40.33 mean


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## the dnf master (Jul 23, 2021)

Now I'm not great at FMC, so I probably didn't notice a bunch of other things but...


Cubing Forever said:


> D B F2 L' B' // 2x2x2


After your fourth move, notice how you can add any D move in between. Adding that move would orient any one of the other edges in the bottom layer. Maybe it wouldn't be that great, but you can switch that move to any other D move, to try a different solution. 


Cubing Forever said:


> F' D' F D L' D F L' F' //F2L-1


that was a nine move f2l-1 and I found a seven move one. L D' L2 D F L' F'. Basically just pair up the pieces a different way, so it only takes 3 moves to get it in the right spot.


Cubing Forever said:


> U L2 B U2 L' R2 F // 2x2x2


That was a really long 2x2x2, and what I would have done was notice that R' would solve the white-orange cross edge relative to the white-green edge. So all you have to do is solve white-orange-green corner to make a square, which can be done with F' D, and then when you insert white-orange, that makes a square. Unfortunately, the orange-green edge is in a bad spot to make a 2x2x2, but what you could is F2 U, which makes a pseudo block. So the whole thing would be F' D R' F2 U.


Also I noticed that you never switched to the inverse before f2l-1. Basically every time you try something on the normal scramble, unless it's very easy, always switch to the inverse to try stuff there.


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## the dnf master (Jul 23, 2021)

I mean here are my solutions for the weekly comp, so ig u can use them to see what else you could have done. But can someone also point out any things I could have improved here(I know that there are quite a few, especially in the second solve)
Scrambles:
1. R' U' F U' F L D' L B2 U B R B R2 F' R2 D2 F2 B L U' R' U' F
2. R' U' F D L' B' L' U' L2 U' D2 L' D' L2 D' B2 D' L2 B2 U B2 L2 F' R' U' F
3. R' U' F D2 F2 L D' B R' F2 B2 D' U2 R2 L2 B2 L2 U2 B L2 B R2 B2 R' U' F


Spoiler: Solve 1(34)



(F2 B L2 B’) D' R//pseudo 2x2x2
(R)//2x2x2
(U F)//pseudo 2x2x3
F'//2x2x3
(L2 U' L' U)//f2l-1
U L2 U’ F’ L F L//AB2C2C1T
Skeleton: D’ R ^ F’ U L2 U’ F’ L F L # U' L U @ L2 F' U' R' B L2 B' F2
//#=L D L' U' L D' L' U
//@=F R F' L2 F R' F' L2
//^=R F' L F R' F' L' F
Final Solution: D' R2 F' L F R' F' L' U L2 U' F' L F L2 D L' U' L U D' F R F' L2 F R' F2 U' R' B L2 F2 B'





Spoiler: Solve 2(41)



L D F’ B’ D’//pseudo 2x2x2
(D')//2x2x2
(U' R U2)//pseudo 2x2x3
U'//2x2x3
R F R F L F’ R F L’//f2l-1
(R’ U R’ F R2 F’ U’ R U)//AB2C3C2E
Skeleton: L # D F’ @ B’ D’ U’ ^ R F R F L F’ R F L’ U' R' U F R2 F' R U' R U' R' U D
//#=L U' L' D L U L' D'
//@=D F' D' B' D F D' B
//^=D2 L2 B' L' B L' D2 R F' R'
Final Solution: L2 U' L' D L U L' F' D F' D' B' D F U' L2 B' L' B L' D2 R2 F L F' R F L' U' R' U F R2 F' R U' R U' R' U D





Spoiler: Solve 3(36)



F’ D R’ F2 U//pseudo 2x2x2
(U’)//2x2x2
B L D2 L' D2//pseudo 2x2x3
(D2)//2x2x3
L’ D L D’ B2//f2l-1
L’ B L2 B’ L’ B L B’ L2 U’ L’ U L’//AB5C
Skeleton: F’ D R’ F2 U B L D2 L’ D2 L’ D L D’ B2 L’ # B L2 B’ @ L’ B L B’ L2 U’ L’ U L’ D2 U
//#=L' F' L B L' F L B'
//@=D' L' B L B' D B L' B' L
Final Solution: F' D R' F2 U B L D2 L' D2 L' D L D' B2 L2 F' L B L' F L' B' D' L' B L B' D L2 U' L' U L' U D2


37.00 mo3


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## the dnf master (Jul 24, 2021)

TaliwangCube said:


> I didn't see where you insert those insertions.


oh I didn't realize that. I just added them in the skeletons.


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## White KB (Sep 6, 2021)

Hey, I just got a really lucky scramble (27 moves, even though I average 48.917 moves per scramble) in Speed FMC last week and was wondering if there was a way to do it better and if there was a way to get more sub-30 move solves. Currently, the steps I go through are similar to Petrus, except at the end:

2x2x2 block //pretty simple, just 3 edges and a corner around 3 centers
2x2x3 block //adding on another 2 edges and a corner around a fourth center
Adjacent 2x2x1 block //adding on yet another 2 edges and a third corner around a fifth center
Strategic F2L-4 insertion //solving a fourth corner and an eighth edge to make a 3x3x2 block similarly to CFOP, but inserting it strategically to
//better the edges on the OLL case
OLL //Orientation of the Last Layer
PLL //Permutation of the Last Layer
Please let me know any suggestions you might have on how I can improve.

The details for the solution are as follows:


Spoiler: SpeedSolving Weekly Competition 2021-34 Speed FMC Scramble #4



R' U' F L D' L2 U B2 R2 D' B2 L2 F2 L2 R' D' F L' D' R' D2 L2 U2 R' U' F





Spoiler: My Solution



Solution: U2 L2 B’ U F’ L U’ F’ R’ U F’ U’ R’ F R’ F’ R U’ R’ U B’ D’ F D’ F’ D2 B

Breakdown:
U2 L2 B’ U F’ L U’ //2x2x3 Block (7/7)
F’ R’ U F’ U’ //Adjacent 2x2x1 Block (5/12)
R’ F R’ F’ R U’ R’ U //F2L (8/20)
B’ D’ F D’ F’ D2 B //LL (PLL skip!) (7/27)
27 moves (FMC PB!) + 3.39 minutes = 30.39



So if you see any improvements to that specific solution I could've made, that would be amazing. Additionally, If you know how I can do better on average (because I'm really bad at FMC overall and my best solution besides this is a 42), then please let me know. Thanks!


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## Cuberstache (Sep 6, 2021)

White KB said:


> Hey, I just got a really lucky scramble (27 moves, even though I average 48.917 moves per scramble) in Speed FMC last week and was wondering if there was a way to do it better and if there was a way to get more sub-30 move solves. Currently, the steps I go through are similar to Petrus, except at the end:
> 
> 2x2x2 block //pretty simple, just 3 edges and a corner around 3 centers
> 2x2x3 block //adding on another 2 edges and a corner around a fourth center
> ...


The two best things you can do to improve your solves are NISS and insertions. NISS is too complicated to explain in a post, look up a tutorial on YouTube. Insertions revolve around basically solving most of the pieces (usually by solving all edges after you reach a cubestate like in step three of what you laid out, leaving up to 5 corners), then solving those pieces with commutators "inserted" into the middle of the solve wherever they cancel the most moves. This also can be learned in full on YouTube


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## White KB (Sep 6, 2021)

Cuberstache said:


> The two best things you can do to improve your solves are NISS and insertions. NISS is too complicated to explain in a post, look up a tutorial on YouTube. Insertions revolve around basically solving most of the pieces (usually by solving all edges after you reach a cubestate like in step three of what you laid out, leaving up to 5 corners), then solving those pieces with commutators "inserted" into the middle of the solve wherever they cancel the most moves. This also can be learned in full on YouTube


OK! Thanks for the advice. I already know about NISS, but I will definitely try and look up how to do insertions.


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## Kit Clement (Sep 7, 2021)

White KB said:


> OK! Thanks for the advice. I already know about NISS, but I will definitely try and look up how to do insertions.



Here's an example of a solution that uses both NISS/insertions for your scramble and 2x2x3 start:



Spoiler: Solution using NISS/insertions



Scramble: R' U' F L D' L2 U B2 R2 D' B2 L2 F2 L2 R' D' F L' D' R' D2 L2 U2 R' U' F

U2 L2 B' U F' L U' //223 block (7/7)
(U F U' R) //F2L-1 (4/11)
(R F R2 D R D') //L3C (5/16)

Skeleton: U2 L2 B' U F' (*) L U' D R D' R2 F' R2 U F' U'

*: U R2 U' L U R2 U' L'

Final solution: U2 L2 B' U F' U R2 U' L U R2 U2 D R D' R2 F' R2 U F' U' (21)



Moves done on the inverse scramble are in parentheses, the skeleton puts all them together back on the normal scramble only with 3 corners remaining. The insertion at (*) finishes those 3 corners while cancelling some moves.


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## White KB (Sep 7, 2021)

Kit Clement said:


> Here's an example of a solution that uses both NISS/insertions for your scramble and 2x2x3 start:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the example! Also, I'm a huge fan of the Layer by Layer podcast, so extra thanks!


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## porkynator (Nov 30, 2021)

How about an exercise in finding EOs?

Try this scramble (#3 from the current German forum competition):
R' U' F L' B U2 L2 U F2 L2 F2 D' R2 B2 R D' R2 U2 R B U' B R' U' F

Can you find all 4-move EOs on F/B on normal scramble, no NISS?


Spoiler: my solve + answer + comments



U B2 R' B' L' U' L2 B2 L2 F2 D' F2 L2 D2 L2 B2 L2 B2 R U F2 D' U' B2 (24)

U B2 R' B' //EO (4/4)
L' (B2 U D F2 U' R) //DR (7/11)
U' L2 * U //Corner HTR (3/14)
B2 D2 [R2 F2 L2 F2 L2] //3e (7/21)

* = B2 L2 F2 D' F2 L2 B2 U' (8-4/25)

Replace [] with L2 B2 L2 B2 R2 to cancel one move with inverse.

I am happy with the result, but a bit disappointed that I have spent the whole hour trying out EOs on one axis and just on normal scramble.
Without NISS there were 8 of them:

U D L B - nothing good from here
U B2 R' B' - my final solution from here
L' R' U' B - I had like a DR in 14 from D2 R...
L' B2 D B - R simplifies for DR, but nothing good after that
B R' U B - I found this DR: D' L2 F2 R' D' R2 D, not very good
B U R' B' - I found this DR: L U F2 D2 R' U2 R, seems ok
B' L' D B - nothing good from here
B' D L' B - 3 nice pairs!

I spent about half an hour on the last EO, there was a lot to try:
1. B2 D (actually finish EO with B') then maybe R D B2 D' ?
2. L' D' L then I don't know B2 R2 D?
3. (D L U') this looks promising, possible continuation L2 U L' B2
4. (L U L) and then continue with DR with good corners on inverse?



Bonus question: can you find all EOs on FB in 4 moves, this time using also the inverse scramble and NISS?


Spoiler



Apart from the 8 EOs above there are 6 purely on inverse:
(R' F2 D2 F)
(R' B2 U2 F)
(F' D2 R' F)
(F' R' D2 F)
(B2 U R' F)
(B2 R' U2 F)

and another 2 with NISS:
U' B (R B)
B (R L B)


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## tseitsei (Dec 15, 2021)

Does anyone have a good tutorial/resource page to learn DR and HTR stuff from. I haven't cubed in years but decided to check this stuff out now.

Thanks

Edit: I can get EO + Orient 4 corners quite easily in about 6 moves but after that I take too many moves to get to DR. And I have pretty much no clue what is the best way to continue after I reach DR.


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## Cuberstache (Dec 15, 2021)

tseitsei said:


> Does anyone have a good tutorial/resource page to learn DR and HTR stuff from. I haven't cubed in years but decided to check this stuff out now.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Edit: I can get EO + Orient 4 corners quite easily in about 6 moves but after that I take too many moves to get to DR. And I have pretty much no clue what is the best way to continue after I reach DR.











A Domino Reduction Guide for FMC


Hi everyone! After seeing all the hype around Domino Reduction, Tommaso Raposio and I have decided to write a complete guide about it. After a month or so, our work is finally done! We aim to prove to everyone that the myth that DR is "difficult" is absolutely not true. Even if you are not into...




www.speedsolving.com


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## tseitsei (Dec 15, 2021)

Cuberstache said:


> A Domino Reduction Guide for FMC
> 
> 
> Hi everyone! After seeing all the hype around Domino Reduction, Tommaso Raposio and I have decided to write a complete guide about it. After a month or so, our work is finally done! We aim to prove to everyone that the myth that DR is "difficult" is absolutely not true. Even if you are not into...
> ...


Thanks! Looks great. I'll give it a closer look during the weekend


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## tseitsei (Dec 22, 2021)

The guide was great for DR I can now usually find several 10-12 move DRs for a scramble.

I have additional questions however:
The guide only briefly mentioned HTR so is there a more in depth stuff regarding that?

I understand that I can just do another DR on different axis (with some move restrictions) and can do that somewhat reasonably. However I often end up with "correct colors" (like only correct and opposite colored stickers on all sides) but corners are still not in HTR. So my question is:
Is there a human viable way of avoiding this or is it just "spam reductions until one eventually works"?


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## Jack314 (Dec 22, 2021)

tseitsei said:


> The guide was great for DR I can now usually find several 10-12 move DRs for a scramble.
> 
> I have additional questions however:
> The guide only briefly mentioned HTR so is there a more in depth stuff regarding that?
> ...


The quarter turns in DR to HTR must have the same parity as DR to solved (DR to solved has the same parity as DR to solved corners which is an easier way to determine the parity). If it does not then the corners will not be in HTR.

These are the DR corner cases (minus symmetries and AUFs/ADFs):









Corners in DR.pdf







drive.google.com





F2 D R2 D and D2 R2 U' R2 U solve different HTR cases.


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## tseitsei (Dec 22, 2021)

Jack314 said:


> The quarter turns in DR to HTR must have the same parity as DR to solved (DR to solved has the same parity as DR to solved corners which is an easier way to determine the parity). If it does not then the corners will not be in HTR.
> 
> These are the DR corner cases (minus symmetries and AUFs/ADFs):
> 
> ...


Hmm... So:
Lets say I find a "HTR" (not an actual HTR because of corner parity) that has even number of quarter turn moves after DR but corners end up not working.
If I go back and find a HTR with odd number of quarter turn moves then the corners will work? Did I understand it correctly?


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## Jack314 (Dec 22, 2021)

tseitsei said:


> Hmm... So:
> Lets say I find a "HTR" (not an actual HTR because of corner parity) that has even number of quarter turn moves after DR but corners end up not working.
> If I go back and find a HTR with odd number of quarter turn moves then the corners will work? Did I understand it correctly?


It must have an odd number of quarter turns for it possibly work. It could still not work though.


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## tseitsei (Dec 22, 2021)

Jack314 said:


> It must have an odd number of quarter turns for it possibly work. It could still not work though.


Ok thanks.

Sorry to bother you further but is there a way to know in advance what will work and what will not work? Or do I just need to try different reductions until one works?

edit: also do we know what is the probability to get a working HTR if you use the correct number of quarter turns?


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## Jack314 (Dec 22, 2021)

tseitsei said:


> Ok thanks.
> 
> Sorry to bother you further but is there a way to know in advance what will work and what will not work? Or do I just need to try different reductions until one works?
> 
> edit: also do we know what is the probability to get a working HTR if you use the correct number of quarter turns?


Corners are close to solved when the cube is in HTR. When doing DR to HTR the corners are brought closer to a state which is solved. Doing moves that bring the corners closer to solve is a good strategy to make your DR to HTR work.

F2 D R2 D and D2 R2 U' R2 U solve different HTR cases, if one of these do not give HTR try the other.

1/3 if you use the correct number of quarter turns.


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## tseitsei (Dec 22, 2021)

Jack314 said:


> Corners are close to solved when the cube is in HTR. When doing DR to HTR the corners are brought closer to a state which is solved. Doing moves that bring the corners closer to solve is a good strategy to make your DR to HTR work.
> 
> F2 D R2 D and D2 R2 U' R2 U solve different HTR cases, if one of these do not give HTR try the other.
> 
> 1/3 if you use the correct number of quarter turns.


Thanks a lot. I understand it better now and should be able to do full solves with it, Just need to learn more DR tricks to find efficient DRs and working HTRs quicker


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## tseitsei (Dec 23, 2021)

First complete DR + HTR solve.
Scramble: R' U' F L2 D2 F2 U B2 D' U' B2 U' L' B' D2 U2 L F D F2 U F D R' U' F
Solution: F' U' L U2 B D2 F2 U' F' U F2 U' L2 B2 U2 R2 U' B2 U' B2 U2 F' B D2 F B' U2 B2 L2 (29)


Spoiler



F' U' L // 3/29 EO
U2 B // 5/29 DR - 4C2E
D2 F2 U' F' //9/29 DR
U F2 U' L2 B2 // 14/29 Setup for HTR trigger
U2 R2 U' B2 U' // 19/29 HTR
B2 U2 L2 * U2 B2 L2 // 25/29 AB3E
* = L2 F' B D2 F B' // 6-2=4 29/29

Quite lucky DR. Usually takes me about 11-12 moves.

DR to HTR is probably horribly inefficient but at least I was able to do it 

I have no idea if what I did while in HTR is actually good or not but 10 moves doesn't seem that bad for me.

Edit: Big limitation for me right now seems to be that I'm very slow at finding stuff since I'm just learning the method so I won't have time to check that many different ideas to get lucky more.


Critique and/or tips are most welcome if someone wants to take a look at it.

Edit:
A very good solve (for my standards) during some Christmas Eve FMC!
Scramble: R' U' F L2 D R2 F2 D' L2 R2 D2 R2 U F' R' U F2 U' B2 U2 L U' F' R' U' F
Solution: D' B' U L D2 F2 D' F2 U B' U' F2 U B2 D B2 U D' B2 L2 B2 L2 B2 U2 (24)



Spoiler



D' B' U L // 4/24 DR - 4c2e
D2 F2 D' F2 // 8/24 making the DR "bars"
U B' // 10/24 DR
U' F2 U B2 U // 15/24 lucky HTR
R2 * L2 ^ U2 // 18/24 leaves 2e2e3e
* = R2 U' D B2 U D' // 6-4=2 20/24 leaves 2e2e
^= L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 B2 // 6-2=4 24/24

A very good solve overall. HTR felt very lucky but good solvers always get lucky on FMC


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## Cubing Forever (Jan 18, 2022)

well, I'm not sure if this would count or not because I didn't use an official FMC scramble but hey! first sub 30!!!

R' U2 F R L' U' F' L B L2 D2 B2 D' L2 D F2 U F2 L2 U2

y' x //orientation
B2 L' U F' //FB
Rw2 U Rw' U Rw R' U' R2 U R U2 R //EOF2L
U R U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 //ZBLL
26 HTM

got it a few days ago


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## Cuberstache (Jan 18, 2022)

Cubing Forever said:


> well, I'm not sure if this would count or not because I didn't use an official FMC scramble but hey! first sub 30!!!
> 
> R' U2 F R L' U' F' L B L2 D2 B2 D' L2 D F2 U F2 L2 U2
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter if it's an official FMC scramble or not. It's not like they cover a different set of states.


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## tseitsei (Jan 21, 2022)

Just got an amazing 18 move solve!!
Scramble from active weekly competition (fmc-weekly.cubing.net) so don't look if you don't want to spoil it.


Spoiler



Scramble: R' U' F R U2 F' B' U2 R' B' U B2 D2 L2 F2 L F2 R B2 R2 F' U' R' U' F
Solve: F2 B2 D B2 R2 B2 L2 D2 B' U B2 D' U B2 R F2 L B' (18)
Explanation:
(B L' F2 R') //EO (4/18)
(B2 U' D B2 U' B) //DR (10/18)
F2 B2 D //HTR (13/18)
B2 R2 B2 L2 D2 //FINISH (18/18)



Can someone check if this is optimal? I don't have cube explorer installed right now.


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## cuberswoop (Jan 21, 2022)

tseitsei said:


> Just got an amazing 18 move solve!!
> Scramble from active weekly competition (fmc-weekly.cubing.net) so don't look if you don't want to spoil it.
> 
> 
> ...


Got you homie. Give me a sec.

EDIT: Cube explorer is taking a long time.


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## Puzzlerr (Jan 21, 2022)

where can i start learning FMC?


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## tseitsei (Jan 21, 2022)

Puzzlerr said:


> where can i start learning FMC?





https://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf



This alone has insane amounts of info and will keep you occupied for months probably.
Concepts like Edge orientation, block building, premoves, NISS, insertions etc. are all very important.


Once you get those "basics" down you probably want to learn Domino reduction too.
This
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11WEvViCZViK0vPjy_ujGI_9aSGnkGg04JpCFjyK0g9o/edit
is great for that.

After DR you want to learn Half Turn Reduction too which is basically just doing a DR on another axis with some limitations. However there are lots of tips and tricks but unfortunately I couldn't find a clear document about that topic while starting to learn it a month or so ago. I might write something about it myself after I have practised some more with it.


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## Cuberstache (Jan 21, 2022)

tseitsei said:


> Can someone check if this is optimal? I don't have cube explorer installed right now.


Yep, it is! Congrats!!!


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## Puzzlerr (Jan 21, 2022)

tseitsei said:


> https://fmcsolves.cubing.net/fmc_tutorial_ENG.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> ...


alright, i think i'll start getting into fmc soon, thanks for the resources


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## tseitsei (Jan 21, 2022)

Cuberstache said:


> Yep, it is! Congrats!!!


Awesome thanks!


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## Cale S (Feb 7, 2022)

22.67 mean from North Star Cubing Challenge 2022



Spoiler: 23



R' U' F D2 F2 L2 D L2 D' U2 F' R2 D' U R2 F R U2 B2 L R D' R' U' F

F' (F' D F) // EO
(L U) L' U' R2 ^ U' // DR (10)
F2 L R2 % B2 L' % D2 @ L % y2 // 17 to 5e4x

@ = S2 // 19 to 4e4x
^ = R2 U2 R2 U' D' F2 U D // 22 to Mx
% = M2 // 23 to solved 

Solution: F' L' U R2 U' D' F2 D F2 L' F2 L R2 D2 F2 B2 L2 R' U' L' F' D' F (23)





Spoiler: 22



R' U' F D' R D2 R2 D' L2 U R2 F2 U2 F' D R' U' R B F' D2 F2 R' U' F

D2 R2 D // EO + DR-4e4c
R L // DR-4e4c on other axis
(F R') // CO/DR-4e
(U2 L U2 D2 R') // DR (12)
U2 ^ B' R2 B2 D2 F' U2 // 19 to 3e

^ = U2 L2 U2 B2 U2 L2 U2 B2 // 23 to solved

D2 R2 D R L' @ U2 B2 U2 L2 @ U2 B R2 B2 D2 F' U2 R @ U2 D2 L' @ U2 R F' 
@ = M' // slice to 22

Solution: D2 R2 D F2 U2 F2 L' R' D2 F R2 F2 U2 B' D2 L F2 B2 R' U2 R F' (22)





Spoiler: 23



R' U' F L U B2 D' L2 B2 F2 U' B2 D2 F' L B2 L' F2 D' R' B' D' U R' U' F 

B U' D F // EO
D' R (U2 L U' L) // DR (10)
L2 B2 L2 F2 U ^ B2 @ U2 // 17 to 3e + E slice

@ = B2 L2 D' B2 R2 F2 U' % R2 // 23 to E slice
^ = E' 
% = E 

Solution: B U' D F D' R L2 B2 L2 F2 D F2 D' L2 B2 R2 D' R2 U2 L' U L' U2 (23)


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## IsThatA4x4 (Feb 22, 2022)

I just tied my FMC PB and I'm pretty happy with it. Any advice is more than welcome since I'm kind of a beginner to FMC.

Scramble: D R B2 F2 D2 R' B2 F2 D2 L' B2 L2 B2 F U L' B L' B R' B

R' D' L // Square (3/3)
F' U' F' // 2x2x2 (3/6)
L2 B2 D B2 D2 + B // 2x2x3 (6/12)
L' D' L2 B' L' B // F2L-1 (6/18)
F' D' R' D R F // EO (6-1/23)
F' D2 F D2 F' D F // AB3c (7-1/29)

+ = D' L U L' D L U' L' // (8-1/36)

Final Solution:
R' D' L F' U' F' L2 B2 D B2 D L U L' D L U' L' B L' D' L2 B' L' B F' D' R' D R D2 F D2 F' D F


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## Cuberstache (Feb 22, 2022)

IsThatA4x4 said:


> I just tied my FMC PB and I'm pretty happy with it. Any advice is more than welcome since I'm kind of a beginner to FMC.
> 
> Scramble: D R B2 F2 D2 R' B2 F2 D2 L' B2 L2 B2 F U L' B L' B R' B
> 
> ...


Well, I'm not an FMC expert, so I won't comment on most of the solve, but insertion finder says your insertion can be three moves better with a perfectly human-findable commutator.


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## TipsterTrickster (Mar 15, 2022)

Reconstructions of my 27.00 mean at Cambridge Challenge 2022.
32, 24, 25

32
S: R' U' F U' D R U D R2 B U L2 U' R2 D' B2 D' F2 D2 R' U2 F R' U' F

U D2 B // EO (3/3)
(U' R) U2 F2 U' F2 U2 D' R // DR (9/12)
D' B2 D L2 U // HTR-2E4C (5/17)
(B2 F2 U R2 U') // HTR (5/22)
(R2 L2 D2 L2) // 3E (4/26)
ok so at this point I know I have at least a 6-2 (at the very end), so a 30, which isn't very good so I tried looking for other things, and end up finding a 22 to 2e2e+e, so that seems more promising, turns out the best I could find is 8-0 which left 30 to e, which is worse than 30 to solved, but I spent all my time on trying to insert the 2e2e, so I quickly return to the solution I had written above and with less than a minute left inserted a 6-0 (didn't have time to do the right version of the alg which would have given 6-2. anyway glad I didn't DNF it, but overall horrible solve. moral of the story, if I see a 30 I should just write it down just in case even though it's bad, I get a bit too obsessed with throwing out ~30 move solves early on because I think I'm gonna find something better.
U D2 B U2 F2 U' F2 U2 D' R D' B2 D L2 U [1] L2 D2 L2 R2 U R2 U' F2 B2 R' U
[1] = U2 F' B L2 F B' (6-0), although actually a 6-1, but I didn't have enough time to write the cancellation
F B' U2 F' B L2 would have given the 6-2

solution: U D2 B U2 F2 U' F2 U2 D' R D' B2 D L2 U U2 F' B L2 F B' L2 D2 L2 R2 U R2 U' F2 B2 R' U

24
S: R' U' F L U' B2 U' L2 U' R2 D U2 R2 F U F2 D2 B' D' B2 R U' R' U' F
(L' F R' B) // EO (4/4)
(D' L U2 L2 D' L B2 L) // DR (8/12)
(R2 D' L2 U') // HTR (4/16)
(L2 D2 F2) // 2E2E (3/19)

F2 D2 L2 U L2 D R2 [1] L' B2 L' D L2 U2 L' D B' R F' L
[1] = R2 D2 B2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B2 (8-3)

solution: F2 D2 L2 U L2 D' B2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B2 L' B2 L' D L2 U2 L' D B' R F' L

I'm pretty happy with this one, although IF found a 21 with a 8-6 and a 6-6, I need to start trying to use two algs for one alg cases like 2e2e more often.

25
S: R' U' F U2 L B D' B2 U' L D F' R2 F' L2 B L2 U2 F L F' R' U' F
R' U D' B // EO (4/4)
U2 L2 U' R U2 R' // DR (6/10)
(U') F2 B2 D R2 B2 D' // HTR (7/17)
U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 // 22 TO E

R' U D' B U2 L2 U' R U2 R' F2 B2 [1] D R2 B2 D' U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 U
[1] = F2 U D' L2 U' D (6-3)

solution: R' U D' B U2 L2 U' R U2 R' B2 U D' L2 U' D2 R2 B2 D' U2 L2 B2 L2 B2 U

so with this one I am pretty disappointed in the insertions, I was trying to slice it down, but I wrote some parts of it down wrong, and also kept misscrambling so kinda ran out of time to slice it down, could have been a 22 if I was able to.

overall I'm glad I didn't DNF the first solve (I had though I wrote down the insertion wrong, but thankfully didn't), and was able to get PR mean and get my first FMC win! Looking at this my best possible mean (if I did optimal insertions) was 30,21,22 = 24.33, so I know I have a lot of room for improvement in the future.


bonus! on the last one the optimal solution follows a logical DR solve and uses one of the EOs I had written down, obviously nobody found it, but I believe that if enough people were doing this scramble, or it was in a week long FMC competition, someone would have.
D R' D' R' // EO (4/4)
U' D' // DR-2E3C (2/6)
F L2 F2 U F' U' // DR w/ inserted F (6/12)
D2 B' U2 L2 D2 B' // FINISH (6/18)


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## CT-6666 (Mar 23, 2022)

I just made my attempt at the Weekly FMC comp (Week 12) and got a DNF and don't know why.
This was the scramble: R' U' F U2 F' U2 B' F2 U2 B2 R2 F D2 L U R' B F U2 F2 R' D' B2 R' U' F
and this is my solution: L D R2 D' R2 U2 B' R2 U2 R' U2 B2 R F' U' F U R' U2 R U2 R' U' R2 U R2 U R2 U' R' U' L U' R2 U L' U' R2 U' R' U R' U' R' U R U L U' R' U L' U' R2 U' D'
L D R2 D' // P 2x2x2x
R2 U2 B' R2 U' R' U B2 // P 2x2x3
R F' U' F U R' U2 R U2 // F2L-1
R' U' R2 U R2 U' R' U //F2L
U2 L U' R2 U L' U' R2 U' // OLL
R' U R' U' R' U R U L U' R' U L' U' R2 U' // PLL
Can someone explain to me why I DNF or where the fault was in the solution. Really would apprieciate it.
On the same note, what would you suggest me for the next concept to learn, I already learned BB, EO, PB and Niss. Thanks for the help.


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## IsThatA4x4 (Mar 23, 2022)

CT-6666 said:


> I just made my attempt at the Weekly FMC comp (Week 12) and got a DNF and don't know why.
> This was the scramble: R' U' F U2 F' U2 B' F2 U2 B2 R2 F D2 L U R' B F U2 F2 R' D' B2 R' U' F
> and this is my solution: L D R2 D' R2 U2 B' R2 U2 U' R' U2 U B2 R F' U' F U R' U2 R U2 R' U' R2 U R2 U R2 U' R' U' L U' R2 U L' U' R2 U' R' U R' U' R' U R U L U' R' U L' U' R2 U' D' D
> L D R2 D' // P 2x2x2x
> ...


You have not correctly copied your working to your final solution. I have corrected it accordingly above.
I would suggest, since you can build F2L-1s to start learning skeletons and insertions as it is much more efficient than LS > OLL > PLL. If you already know commutators this should be easy. I would recommend learning from this tutorial: https://fmcsolves.cubing.net/


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## CT-6666 (Mar 24, 2022)

IsThatA4x4 said:


> You have not correctly copied your working to your final solution. I have corrected it accordingly above.
> I would suggest, since you can build F2L-1s to start learning skeletons and insertions as it is much more efficient than LS > OLL > PLL. If you already know commutators this should be easy. I would recommend learning from this tutorial: https://fmcsolves.cubing.net/


thanks for the reply, I will have a look at skeleton and insertions. Appreciate it.


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## CT-6666 (Mar 26, 2022)

Hey Guys
I am trying to learn insertions now, but I have difficulties with the comutators, does anybody know a good toutorial which also covers cases with twisted corners and such things?


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## Cale S (Mar 28, 2022)

22.33 and 22.67 means from Mini Minnesota Spring 2022



Spoiler: 22.33






Spoiler: 23



R' U' F U2 F2 U2 D2 L2 D2 F2 L B L2 R' B L F2 R2 U B' L2 F R' U' F

L F' @ U' D' L // EO + sq
(L2 B' U D B2 U2 F) // DR (12)
(D' L2 D F2 U) // 17 to 3c

@ = [F, R' B2 R]

Solution: L R' B2 R F' R' B2 R U' D' L U' F2 D' L2 D F' U2 B2 U' D' B L2 (23)





Spoiler: 23



R' U' F U R B' D F2 R L2 F' R' U L' F2 D2 R' F2 R U2 R U R' U' F

L2 B (R F) // EO + sq
L U' R' // blocks + DR-2e2c
(R U2 R2 D R' U2 R) // DR (14)
(F2 D U2 F2 D2 B2 x2) // 20 to 3e4x

L2 B L U' R' x2 B2 D2 F2 D' {U2 F2 R' U2 R} D' R2 ^ U2 R' @ F' R'
^ = M'
@ = M // 21 to Mx
replace {} with x2 L R' B2 U2 R' B2 L for 23 to solved (could also see this as just inserting 2 slices lol)

Solution: L2 B L U' R' F2 U2 B2 U' L R' B2 U2 R' B2 L D' L R F2 L' F' R' (23)





Spoiler: 21



R' U' F U2 B2 U2 L2 R2 B2 L D' L' U L' B L2 R U2 F2 L B' R' U' F

(D2 B) L D B // EO
U D2 F2 R2 D' R // DR (11)
U2 L2 D' R2 L2 D // HTR (17)
R2 F2 // 19 to 3e + E slice

L D B U D2 F2 R2 D' R U2 # L2 D' R2 L2 D # % R2 F2 B' ^ D2
^ = S
% = U2 S' U2
# = E2

Solution: L D B U D2 F2 R2 D' R D2 R2 D' R2 L2 D' F B' R2 D2 F D2 (21)








Spoiler: 22.67






Spoiler: 21



R' U' F L2 R2 B2 L2 D2 U' B2 U R2 D2 R2 B F L' D' B2 U2 B F' D R' U' F

F U R' B L // EO
F' (L2 F) // DR (8)
(D2 L2 F2 L2 B2 U F2 D') // HTR (16)
(R2 D2) // 18 to 3e

F U R' B L F' @ D2 @ R2 D F2 U' B2 ^ L2 F2 ^ L2 D2 F' ^ L2
@ = S' // 20 to Sx
^ = S2 // 21 to solved

Solution: F U R' B L B' L2 B' F L2 U F2 D' F2 L2 B2 R2 U2 B2 F L2 (21)





Spoiler: 24



R' U' F L F' D L U2 L' B2 U2 B2 U2 L2 R2 U B F D2 F2 L' F R' U' F

L F R B' // EO
(U L) L2 F2 R2 D' F2 U' R' // DR (13)
D L2 U' @ F2 D2 B2 D // 20 to 2e2e
@ = R2 F2 L2 B2 L2 F2

Solution: L F R B' L2 F2 R2 D' F2 U' R' D L2 U' R2 F2 L2 B2 L2 D2 B2 D L' U' (24)

a few minutes into the attempt I had this:
L F R B' // EO
(U L U R2 U' R2 U' L) // DR (12)
U' D2 F2 L2 D' // 17 to 2e2e, can also be 17 to 3e4x
but I couldn't find any decent way to insert it. Insertion Finder finds a weird 10-5 for 22

there was this 9 move DR with like 16 variations:
L F B R' // EO + DR-2e
B' U2 L2 D2 F' // DR (9)
the corners are bad so I didn't spend much time on these, but Carter and James found a 23 from one of them

I also had this 9 move DR with decent corners:
L' B' U // EO
(F' R2 F' D2 B R') // DR (9)
optimal finish gives 23 but it doesn't seem like I could have found it

with all these starts that seemed promising I was disappointed with a 24, but after analyzing them a bit more it seems like there wasn't actually anything great I should have found from them





Spoiler: 23



R' U' F L U2 F2 L D2 F' D B' R U2 B L2 B2 L2 U2 F B2 L2 D R' U' F

R U F2 D L // EO
(D B') U' D' B2 D2 F' // DR (12)
D' ^ R2 F2 U' // HTR (16)
R2 @ D2 ^ R2 D2 // 20 to 3e

@ = M U2 M' U2 // 25 to solved
^ = E2 // slice to 23

Solution: R U F2 D L U' D' B2 D2 F' D U2 L2 B2 U' R' L' F2 R' L' D2 B D' (23)


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## Cale S (May 2, 2022)

22.33 mean from Heartland Champs 2022



Spoiler: 23



R' U' F R' F2 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 R2 F2 U' B F D2 R D2 F2 U' R2 F U' R' U' F

B' L' R2 F' // EO
L (U' F2 L D2 L') // DR (10)
U F2 D' L2 U L2 @ U F2 // 18 to 2e2e

@ = L2 U2 B2 L2 D2 R2 F2 D2 // 8-3

Solution: B' L' R2 F' L U F2 D' L2 U' B2 L2 D2 R2 F2 D2 U F2 L D2 L' F2 U (23)



Spoiler: stuff



missed this 22 from the DR:
B' L' R2 F' // EO
L (U' F2 L D2 L) // DR (10)
(D' B2 L2 D R2 D' @ R2 D) // 18 to 3e
@ = D2 M D2 M' // 6-2

there's this 21 that I probably would have found if I looked at red front EO before spending most of the hour on one EO :/ 
(L2 U2 B' R) // EO
(B) R2 U' L2 B2 U2 F // DR (11)
(U) L2 B2 R2 U // HTR (16)
R2 D2 F2 U2 B2 U2 // Finish (21)








Spoiler: 22



R' U' F R' U2 F2 R B' L D' L2 U' R' F U' B2 R2 U L2 U D R2 F2 R' U' F

U' B' R F' // EO
L U R2 F2 R // DR (9)
(U) // HTR-4e
D' R2 L2 U' // HTR (14)
^ L2 R2 @ U2 F2 R2 // 19 to 3e + E slice

@ = F2 R2 F2 ^ U2 F2 R2 F2 U2 // 21 to E slice
^ = M2 // swap some moves around because I thought it made 20 to E slice lol

E slice skeleton after DR:
D' R2 L2 U' % B2 R2 B2 R2 L2 U2 F2 U' &
% = E
& = E' // 22 to solved

Solution: U' B' R F' L U R2 F2 R D' R2 L2 D' R2 F2 R2 F2 B2 U2 L2 U2 D (22)



Spoiler: stuff



there's a 20 from a variation of the DR:
U' B' R F' // EO
L U L2 B2 R' // DR (9)
(L2 @ F2 L2 U^ S2 U2) // 16 to 4e4x + E slice

@ = D' S2 D^ // 20 to E slice
^ = make wide // 20 to solved








Spoiler: 22



R' U' F R2 U L2 R2 D' B2 U' B F U F U R B L B' F' D' R' U' F

B' (L U B) // EO
(R') D2 L2 D' L ^ B2 L' // DR (11)
B2 ^ R2 @ F2 R2 D L2 D y2 // 18 to 3e + Ex

@ = L2 U B2 L2 F2 D R2 F2 // 21 to Ex
^ = M2 // slice to 20 to Ex

B' D2 L2 D' L' R2 F2 L' 
F2 U B2 % L2 F2 D2 L2 D % y2 
R B' U' L' 

% = E // 22 to solved

Solution: B' D2 L2 D' L' R2 F2 L' F2 U B2 U D' B2 L2 D2 B2 U R B' U' L' (22)


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## Rubiksmath (May 29, 2022)

Hi, I am a beginner at FMC, Id say i average somewhere around 40 moves. Yesterday though, i finally got something decent. Ive read most of trontos tutorial and its very helpful, lots of head knowledge but I havent put in enough time to make it show. The example solves, whilst i understand the techniques used, still look like luck to me so Ive got a ways to go yet. Anyway, i got a 23 move solve (pb by a mile, previous was like 35 or so).

Scr: D2 F D2 U2 F U2 B' R2 B2 L2 F' U2 L R U' B' R' B F D' F2

only 4 misoriented edges for DR on yellow/white (im not yet colour neutral for DR, it trips me up still), but I always struggle with the corners and edges, as a result it often takes me another 10-12 moves after EO to achieve DR. So I head to the inverse scramble and find this

(U2 L2 D' F) //EO
(L F2 U2 R' U2 R) // DR
fastest DR ive ever gotten, although it doesnt look too great, so I head back to normal scramble (yes i checked the other trigger, found nothing good there)

new scramble:
R' U2 R U2 F2 L' F' D L2 U2 + scramble
and the thing is practically solved (by my standards, usually its a mess still)!

I found this skeleton leaving 3c 3e:
(U2 L2 D' 2 B2)
discarded this since i dont know how to do a 3c3e insertion properly, i just go fix the edges cause theyre all in the E slice, so I simply adjust my skeleton to fix those edges with a couple E moves :
U2 L2 U D2 F2 R2 U' D //3c


transferring into actual skeleton with no premoves:
U2 L2 U D2 F2 R2 U' D R' U2 R (*) U2 F2 L' F' D L2 U2 //3c (18)

best insertion i could find cancels 3 moves, i havent done much practice with them and only really know a few general commutators:
(*) = R D' R' U2 R D R' U2

sol: U2 L2 U D2 F2 R2 U' D R' U2 R2 D' R' U2 R D R' F2 L' F' D L2 U2 (23)

This took me about 7 hours and was really draining but it was all worth it in the end. If anyone has feedback or something better, feel free to let me know.


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## Silky (Jun 3, 2022)

Do we have a formula for edge commutators not using slice moves?


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## ChrisCuber123 (Jun 13, 2022)

I'm never active here so here are some cool solves from Northeast Champs a couple weeks ago:



Spoiler: 1. 21



R' U' F D2 L' U B R2 D2 R2 D2 F' L2 B D F' R B' D F R' U R' U' F

F2 B' U R // EO
D F2 U L2 D F // DR (10)
D' B2 L2 D // HTR (14)
* B2 R2 L2 ^ U2 D2 // 3e+slice (19)
*: D2 B2 L2 B2 D2 B2 L2 B2
^: R2 U' D B2 U D' // lazy 6-4 for slice
then shorten part after DR to Dw' B2 L2 D' B2 L2 B2 U' Uw' F2 L2





Spoiler: 3. 23



R' U' F D2 R' F2 L2 U2 L' B2 L B' F' U R' U L' R2 B R2 F U' R' U' F

(U' B U) // EO
(L F) // DR-2c
(R B R' F2 R B' R' F2) // comm to get DR temporarily
(L2 F2 U2 R) // HTR
(* F2 U2 L2 D2 L2 D2) // 2e2e
*: (R2 F2 L2 B2 L2 F2)
then remove comm and do 8-3 to solve corners

Missed a 21 off this:
B2 L D B' L' // EO
(R2 U2 R2 D B') // DR



Solve 2 was a 29 oops


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## Mrauo (Jun 14, 2022)

22.33 Spanish NR mean from Aldeilla Open 2022



Spoiler: R' U' F L B' D2 F U' R F L' U' L2 F' B2 R2 B D2 F2 R2 L2 U2 F2 R' U' F



R' U R D F'//EO (5/5)
R'//DR-2e4c (1/6)
F2 B2 U2 R B2 R'//DRgc (6/12)
(L2 U' B2 U')//HTR (4/16)
(L2 U2 R2 D2 F2 L2)//finish (6/22)

Solution: R' U R D F' R' F2 B2 U2 R B2 R' L2 F2 D2 R2 U2 L2 U B2 U L2

22 moves





Spoiler: R' U' F U2 F2 U' L2 F' U2 R2 B2 U2 F' L2 F2 L' F U2 F2 L R2 D2 R' U' F



R2 U'//EO (2/2)
(R' L') B2 L2 B U2 B L'//DR gc (8/10)
F (F2 U2 B')//HTR (4/14)
(R2 D2 R2 L2 F2 D2)//finish (6/20)

Solution: R2 U' B2 L2 B U2 B L' F D2 F2 L2 R2 D2 R2 B U2 F2 R L

20 moves





Spoiler: R' U' F R' L U' F2 R2 F U F2 D U2 R D2 R B2 R' F2 R2 D' F2 R' U' F



(F D B' F2 U')//EO (5/5)
(L' F')//DR-4e4c (2/7)
(U2 L2 B2 R B)//DRgc (5/12)
(L' D2 R F2 * R F2 D2 L')//AB2E2E (8/20)

*(F2 ^ L2 D2 R2 B2 U2 R2 ^ D2)//2e2e (8-2/26)
^(R2 L2 x2)// (4-5/25)

Solution: L D2 F2 R' D2 L2 D2 F2 R2 U2 R D2 L B' R' B2 L2 U2 F L U F2 B D' F'

25 moves


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## porkynator (Jun 26, 2022)

Just got a "PB" (my best solve at home ever, still worse than my offical 16)



Spoiler: Ongoing German forum weekly competition



Scramble: R' U' F D2 F' L F' R' F2 L B' D R F2 L' D2 L2 F' D2 R' U' F
Solution: U B2 U L' U' B' D' R2 D2 R L' U' L U R' D2 U2 L2 (18)

U B //321 (2/2)
(L2 U2 * R2) //Blocks (3/5)
B L' B' //F2L-1 -1 move (3-1/7)
B L U L' U' B' D' //3e4c (7-4/10)

* = D2 R U' L' U L R' D2 //Setup to sexy (8/18)


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## Imsoosm (Jun 26, 2022)

porkynator said:


> Just got a "PB" (my best solve at home ever, still worse than my offical 16)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are there any websites where you can practice FMC with unlimited scrambles? The ones that I found were only weekly scrambles, I want to get more into FMC so I wanna practice more.


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## xyzzy (Jun 26, 2022)

Silky said:


> Do we have a formula for edge commutators not using slice moves?


What do you mean?

The short 3-cycle edge comms of the interchange-insert type _have_ to use slice moves, because that's how you can isolate a single edge piece. The only other useful edge comms are the M' U2 M U2 type, which also use slice moves (but keep in mind that you can "split up" one of the slice moves without affecting move count, e.g. M' U2 M U2 = l' U2 M U2 L, both six moves long).

There are short 3-cycle algs that are not commutators, e.g. (R2 U' R2 f2)2 or (R2 u' R2 f2)2. There isn't exactly any rhyme or reason to how they work; they just do.



Imsoosm said:


> Are there any websites where you can practice FMC with unlimited scrambles? The ones that I found were only weekly scrambles, I want to get more into FMC so I wanna practice more.


You can just get scrambles off csTimer or whatever.


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## Silky (Jun 26, 2022)

xyzzy said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> The short 3-cycle edge comms of the interchange-insert type _have_ to use slice moves, because that's how you can isolate a single edge piece. The only other useful edge comms are the M' U2 M U2 type, which also use slice moves (but keep in mind that you can "split up" one of the slice moves without affecting move count, e.g. M' U2 M U2 = l' U2 M U2 L, both six moves long).
> 
> ...


So I think maybe this is more so a general 'hunch' of mine. It kind of goes off feeling for me so I'll do my best to put it into words. 
The general idea is that, when looking at EPLL/L5EP, the algs feel as if they should be intuitive. In relative similar vein are things such as L5CO, OCLL, WV, which can all be found intuitively ( all 2 gen specifically ). Back to EPLL the main 'formula' is to take out pairs, cycle your U edges, and put everything back together. This is outlined in the 2GB method, however vaguely. This sets up for a completely intuitive 2GLL. In general I'd like to flesh out 2GB since the original proposal is rather unclear and abstract ( I'm a big fan of Imam's methods. HSC was much easier to understand given my background in Guimond and SSC ). anyway, while not specifically coms I feel that they'd still be generally related ( sister ideas I guess ). There maybe not be such a clear formula but thought I'd still ask.


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## GenTheThief (Jun 27, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> Yeah, but you can't enter your solution in csTimer nor does it keep track of your singles and averages. I'm thinking of a website like the SS Forums weekly comp FMC, except there are infinite scrambles.


You can generate FMC type scrambles on cstimer and switch the input to "typing" so that you can put in your movecount as the "time". To keep track of the solution, you can click on the time and add your solution in the "comment" in the dialogue box. That way it can keep track of singles and averages.


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## DetDuVil (Jun 27, 2022)

I want to become as good as possible for a competition in 3.5 weeks. So far I have been grinding FMC hard for the last week or so and have been improving a lot. Mostly I have been looking at the FMC guide by Sebastiano Tronto (porkynator) and doing the reddit and speedsolving forum competitions. I have learned NISS, insertions and some blockbuilding techniques. I also know EO and have tried learning some DR.

Given all this, how do I improve the most in the 3.5 weeks? Should I start DR right away or wait until I am faster and better at NISS and insertions? If I start with DR, should I immediately learn HTR?

P. S.: If anyone has time to critique any of my solves in the competitions (u/DetDuVil on cubers.io and DetDuVil here on speedsolving) I would be very grateful! Unfortunately I have DNFed 3 due to time management, but there might still be inefficiencies to point out. Also just doing the competition solves helps as I will likely look at them and compare the solves to mine.


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## xyzzy (Jul 23, 2022)

Going through past weekly comp scrambles for last minute practice…

2022-24:


Spoiler: scramble #1 (27)



1. R' U' F R D2 U2 F D2 R2 F' L2 F' R2 B' R2 D R F2 U B U' B2 D R' U' F

Solution:
B D B' L U L D' L' U' L
D2 F2 D2 L' D R D' L D2 F
D' F R' B U F' L'

(L F U' B') // 222 (4/4)
B D B' L2 // xxcross (4/8)
(R F2 R' D F2 D') // ab5c3e (6/14)
Skeleton: B D B' L2 @3 D F2 D' @2 @1 R F2 R' B U F' L'
@1 = R D F D' F' R' // edges; ab5c (6-3/17)
@2 = D' L' D R D' L D R' // ab3c (8-4/21)
@3 = L' U L D' L' U' L D // finish (8-2/27)





Spoiler: scramble #2 (30)



2. R' U' F U2 B2 R' D2 L U2 F2 L2 R2 U2 F R2 D L R' F2 D2 B F2 U' R' U' F

Solution:
R2 F U F U F B U' B' R2
U' R U R' U' R' F' R U2 R
U2 R' F B2 D' R2 U D2 L F2

(F2 L') // EO (2/2)
(D2 U' R2 D B2) // 222 (5/7)
R2 F U F2 // 223 (4/11)
F' U F B U' B' R2 // F2L (7-1/17)
U' R U R' U' R' F' R U2 R U2 R' F // ZBLL (13/30)





Spoiler: scramble #3 (30)



3. R' U' F D' B L2 U2 L' F2 D' B L' F2 D F U2 R2 F B2 R2 U2 R' U' F

Solution:
L' D' L D' L' U L' U2 L' U
L U' L U D' L U' L' U L
D F2 B2 L2 D2 U' F L B F

(F' B' L' F') // EO (4/4)
(U D2 L2 B2) // 222 (4/8)
L' D' L D' // 223 (4/12)
(F2 D' L' D) // F2L-1 + pair (4/16)
L' U L' U' // F2L (4/20)
U' L' U L U' L U D' L U' L' U D // ZBLL (13-3/30)



The ZBLL abuse continues.


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## xyzzy (Jul 24, 2022)

wow more ZBLL abuse

R' U' F U2 F' D2 B2 F R2 D2 U2 F R B F2 U2 L' U R U L2 U R' U' F


Spoiler



(L R' F2 U' L B' L2) // 223 (7/7)
(U' R' U') // pF2L-1 (3/10)
R U // adjust (2/12)
D' F' U F' U' @ F2 D // edges; ab4c (7/19)
@ = L' U F' U' F' L U F' L' F' L U' F2 // ZBLL (13-4/28)

Final solution:
R U D' F' U F' U' L' U F'
U' F' L U F' L' F' L D R
U L2 B L' U F2 R L'

I also saw someone's answer sheet had only two rows filled up so… new NR single??



Second scramble went terribly, we don't talk about that. Almost no chance of hitting sub-30 mean this time, I guess, and even podiuming might be unlikely.

Edit: wow never mind I _completely failed_ the second and third scrambles.


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## xyzzy (Jul 24, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> How many ZBLLs do you know? Because it seems like you use it a _lot _in your FMC solves.


I know (or knew) all of the 10-move ZBLL cases, and I think most of the 11-move ones too. Among non-edge-oriented 1LLL, I think I know all of them up to 9 moves, and around half of the 10-movers, maybe?

Anyhow, it's a crutch I use to cover up my garbo blockbuilding. And sometimes it even pays off! Get a skeleton with ≤4 corners and ≤4 edges unsolved, throw them all in one layer with setup moves (or better yet, without any setup moves), and slap a 1LLL on it. Most other people don't do this because LL-alg insertions are really difficult to do quickly, and the time is usually better spent on finding better skeletons.

(edit: To be clear, I'm not saying that I'm good at this, or that it's not difficult for me. I often spend 15+ minutes on a single skeleton when I try to do this, which severely limits what I can do in terms of finding other skeletons, or doing insertions on other skeletons.)


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## Silky (Jul 28, 2022)

Scramble: D F L2 D2 F2 U L2 F2 D' L2 B2 D F2 R' B L U2 R U B2 L2
Just did this scramble for an example solve. Seems really good for FMC, wanted to see what solutions ya'll could come up with.


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## Rubiksmath (Aug 5, 2022)

I've been experimenting with solving corners first once DR is achieved and sadly not having much luck. I know people say edge insertions cancel a lot of moves in DR, however with a 3 cycle thats kinda offset (solvable with something like (R2 f2 R2 U)*2), ive yet to cancel a move. I know i am not great with insertions, however as far as I can tell the positions where said edges line up dont seem to have an alg to solve them that cancels a move fsr (i check in cube explorer, also i find corner insertions much more likely to cancel but its still rare for me). Anyway, besides the point. I got this DR in 12 moves which has corners solvable in 2 moves, with some fiddling i tried to get the amount of solved edges up but i couldnt achieve too much. Can anyone let me know how they might finish this one off? it could help me a lot.

Scr: L' R2 D B2 R2 D' F2 D L2 D' L2 F2 L2 R' F2 D' U' R' B U' B'

B U B' //EO (yes this inverts scramble but its painfully obvious and i didnt know it inverted scramble till after)

(R2 D R) R2 F2 U2 L' D L' //DR + corners solvable in 2 moves aside from AUF.

from here, L2 B2 R2 B2 (cancels 1 move) is about the best i can manage in terms of reducing edge swaps, but theres so many still including 2e in the E layer which I cant just solve like i would normally by inserting an E move or two after DR to fix them (i know doing R' instead of R in the NISS fixes that but it also makes the corners take a bit longer to solve and i get the same dreadful cases anyway). I have tried messing with U or D moves like the algorithms to solve those offset 3 cycles but nothing good has come of it. I have tried to carry on with the solve to just see if i can insert these swaps without using 50 trillion moves but I'm not able to, as these offset 3 cycles again dont cancel any moves as far as i can tell (and its also painful spending half an hour trying to find algs that solve the case, and finding maybe 5-10 algs that solve the case but cancel 0 moves, anyone know if theres a faster way to come up with/recognise which alg to use kinda like alg memorisation in cfop i guess, cause in a comp that would eat through my hour). Anyway, if someone could give me a bit of guidance as to how they might do it or a good solution from here. it would be appreciated. 

Please use same DR but if you can find a better DR do let me know as I am also interested as to how one might come up with better solutions, obviously if insertion is before DR thats fine its still the same skeleton DR i guess.


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## Cale S (Aug 22, 2022)

19 official single from Mental Breakdown MN 2022

R' U' F U' B D' U2 F R2 U2 F2 L2 D2 B L D' B' R2 B R' D' U R' U' F


Spoiler



U' F' D' L' B // EO
U' L2 D L // DR (9)
R2 D (B2 U) // HTR (13)
F2 R2 U2 B2 R2 // 18 to E slice

R2 D F2 R2 U2 ^ B2 R2 U' @ B2
@ = E
^ = E'

Solution: U' F' D' L' B U' L2 D L R2 D F2 R2 U D L2 B2 D' B2 (19)



other attempts were bad but here they are


Spoiler: attempt 1



R' U' F D' L' F U F2 U D' F' R' B U D L2 U D F2 U R' U' F

L B // 222
(R2 F R') // EO
U' F2 U' R2 (U R2) // 223
(F' U' F U2 F U2 F') // 18 to 3c

L B U' F2 U' R2 ^ F U2 F' U2 F' U F R2 U' R F' R2
^ = [L, F R F'] // 8-2

Solution: L B U' F2 U' R2 L F R F' L' F R' U2 F' U2 F' U F R2 U' R F' R2 (24)

with a few minutes left I had this:
(R) B2 L // EO
B' L2 F2 U2 F' D // DR (9)
U2 L2 B' U2 F D2 F // HTR (16)

which can give 22 by doing L2 D2 B2 L2 B2 L2 and slicing, but I was panicking so I tried finding something that didn't require slice inserting

I really need to start looking at every EO axis before spending too much time finding as many as I can on just one...





Spoiler: attempt 2



R' U' F U' L2 D L2 D R2 B2 D' U2 F L2 B R' F' D' L U' R' U' R' U' F

U L (R2 B R') // EO
F (U L2 F2 U' F2 U' B') // DR (13)
(L2 U F2 D) // HTR (17)
F2 R2 F2 // 19 to 2e2e
F2 U2 L2 B2 U2 F2 R2 D2 // 8-3

Solution: U L F' R2 U2 L2 B2 U2 F2 R2 D F2 U' L2 B U F2 U F2 L2 U' R B' R2 (24)

funny CFOP 26 I found 5 minutes into the attempt:
U' // sq
D2 F U' F' // 222
L2 B2 D F L' F' (L) // 223
(D R D R') // 3rd pair
(D B D B') // 4th pair
(B' D' L' D L B D2) // LL


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## Mrauo (Aug 22, 2022)

Reconstructions of my 22.67 Mo3 from Aldeilla Open 2022 



Spoiler: Attempt 1: R' U' F D' R2 D2 L2 U L2 B2 L2 U' F R' F U B' U' R' U L2 U' R' U' F 



B' (U R F')//EO (4/4)
R//DR-4e4c (1/5)
B2 D U2 F2 L F2 L//DRgc (7/12)
U2* L2 U' D* B2 U2* D L2 U'//AB3E (9/21)
U L2 F2 R2 D B2 R2 ^ F2//3e (8-5/24)

*w// (-3/21)
^ U' D y// (2/23)

Solution: B' R B2 D U2 F2 L F2 L D2 R2 L2 D' L2 F2 D R2 F2 U' D F' R' U'
23 moves





Spoiler: Attempt 2: R' U' F R' B U' B' D' F' U2 F' D2 L F' D2 R2 L2 U R2 F2 R2 D' R' U' F



D B' U' F' L//EO+DR-2e4c (5/5)
B2 U2 F' U2 R2 U F2 U//DRgc (8/13)
F' R2 B' U2 D2 B'//HTR (6/19)
D2 B2 L2 U2 B2//finish (5/24)

Solution: D B' U' F' L B2 U2 F' U2 R2 U F2 U F' R2 B' U2 D2 B' D2 B2 L2 U2 B2
24 moves





Spoiler: Attempt 3: R' U' F U B D2 B R2 B' D2 B' F2 U F R' D B' F2 R2 D B U2 R' U' F



F L B'//EO (3/3)
(U')//DR-2e4c (1/4)
R F2 R' D' B2 D//DRgc (6/10)
R' F2 L'//HTR (3/13)
F2 D2 L2 U2 L2 F2 U2 F2//finish (8/21)

Solution: F L B' R F2 R' D' B2 D R' F2 L' F2 D2 L2 U2 L2 F2 U2 F2 U

21 moves


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## trangium (Aug 23, 2022)

trangium said:


> Around a month ago I tried 4x4 FMC.
> Since Domino Reduction is such a good FMC method for 3x3, I extended it into a reduction-based method for 4x4, reducing from <U, D, L, R, F, B, Uw, Dw, Lw, Rw, Fw, Bw> to <U, D, L, R, F, B, Uw2, Dw2, Lw2, Rw2, Fw2, Bw2> to <U, D, L, R, F, B> then proceeding with 3x3 stage. It worked really well!
> 
> 
> ...


It's been 8 months and I've gotten better at 3x3 FMC, so I thought I would try to improve the 3x3 stage of my fourth attempt (57 OBTM).

I used the inverse of my old 3x3 stage solution as a scramble: U' L2 D' F2 U' F2 B2 U L' D' F2 B2 U R' L F2 R L' U' L2 U2 L2 D' B D L2 B2

Then I found this 23 move solution with HTR:
U B2 L2 B' // EO (4)
(U2 R' D L2 B2 U' D2 L) // DR (12)
(D' F2 U' L2 D) // HTR (17)
(U2 R2 B2 F2 U2 L2) // Finish (23)

This improves the result by 4 moves, to *53 OBTM* (30 for reduction, 23 for 3x3 stage).
Full solution: R Uw' R2 Uw Rw2 U Rw U2 D2 Rw Uw2 B Uw2 R2 D' B Uw2 R D' F2 B2 U' Fw2 F2 L R B' D B' Uw2 z2 x U B2 L2 B' L2 U2 F2 B2 R2 U2 D' L2 U F2 D L' D2 U B2 L2 D' R U2


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## Timona (Aug 24, 2022)

Does NISS only work for CFOP? I tried it with ZZ, and I didn't see how to make it work or maybe I'm just doing it wrong.


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## IsThatA4x4 (Aug 24, 2022)

Timona said:


> Does NISS only work for CFOP? I tried it with ZZ, and I didn't see how to make it work or maybe I'm just doing it wrong.


Works with any set of moves on any scramble, you're probably just doing it wrong...


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## xyzzy (Aug 24, 2022)

Timona said:


> Does NISS only work for CFOP? I tried it with ZZ, and I didn't see how to make it work or maybe I'm just doing it wrong.


NISS doesn't care about what method the moves it's being used on came from.

Did the moves come from CFOP? Or ZZ? Or Petrus? Or DR? NISS doesn't know and doesn't care; it's just a way of manipulating move sequences.


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## Imsoosm (Aug 27, 2022)

Does the number of bad edges during EO change in different orientations? For example my default is white/yellow top, green/blue front, if I change to red/orange top, white/yellow front, does the number change? Or does it always stay the same no matter what orientation?


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## Nevan J (Aug 27, 2022)

I tried doing NISS, but everytime I try to get the final solution, its always messed up. What is the way to get the final solution? btw I watched jperm's tutorial on it, and did it the way he showed


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## Imsoosm (Aug 27, 2022)

Nevan J said:


> I tried doing NISS, but everytime I try to get the final solution, its always messed up. What is the way to get the final solution? btw I watched jperm's tutorial on it, and did it the way he showed


Write down all of the normal moves, the write down the inverse of the inverse moves. For example:

NormalInverseR' U L2 U LF' R B2 D2 U'U2 D2 B2 L R'D' U B2 U B
You write:
F' R B2 F2 U' U2 F2 B2 L R'
and then you write
B' U' B2 U' D
L' U' L2 U' R


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## IsThatA4x4 (Aug 27, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> Does the number of bad edges during EO change in different orientations? For example my default is white/yellow top, green/blue front, if I change to red/orange top, white/yellow front, does the number change? Or does it always stay the same no matter what orientation?


For EO, edges can be oriented with the x, y, or z axes
In ZZ style EO, they are oriented with z, so z rotations do not affect EO, and the same goes for x and y.
This means you have 3 different axes to check for EO, assuming white top green front as the "standard" orientation, you've got:
-Green/blue front (z) (RULDF2B2)
-Red/orange front (x) (FBUDR2L2)
-White/yellow front (y) (RLFBU2D2)
That can each have their own number of bad edges.


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## Aldhi R. (Sep 2, 2022)

Rubiksmath said:


> Scr: L' R2 D B2 R2 D' F2 D L2 D' L2 F2 L2 R' F2 D' U' R' B U' B'



I found an amazing (at least for my level) solution of the scramble:



Spoiler: My first sub-20



U D2 L D // EO
R' F2 R' B' R2 B // DR (10)
R' (B2 L' U2 L) // HTR (15)
(R2 F2 L2 B2) // finish (19)

Solution: U D2 L D R' F2 R' B' R2 B R' B2 L2 F2 R2 L' D2 L B2 (19)



Nice scramble apparently. Felt like there's even more shorter solution(s) than this.


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## Silky (Sep 2, 2022)

So I was playing around with some 2x2 solves hopping between different methods ( Guimond, VOP, HD-G, and CLL mostly ). anyway here's the scramble and the solution I came up with

Scramble U' R U' R2 U2 F2 U' F' D2

R' // 3/4 Guimond Face (1)
U2 R' U2 R' // Orientation (4/5)
U R2 U' R2 // PLFC (4/9)

I was curious if this move optimal ( which it is.. I think? ) so I ran it through Batch Solver and Cube Explorer. Interestingly, even when searching for 2 gen solutions, neither could come up with my solution, not even remotely close. Batch Solver came up as 'failed' and Cube Explorer immediately went to search depth 25. This doesn't feel possible to me especially for such a straight forward solution. If anyone is well versed in computer science, what's going on here? Is this just a flaw in the algorithm that is used in these programs? If so what is the theoretical explanation for this?

Update 1: Just ran it through a 3-gen RUL solution and it came up with R' U2 R' U2 R' U R2 U' L2 which is my solution, however with an L2 instead of an R2. Still confusing tho.

Update 2: Just ran through a bunch of 2-Gens scramble from CSTimer and have ran into the exact same problem when genning by 2-gen. However if genned RUL it has the ability to come up with 2-gen solution although struggles quite a lot.

Update 3: Trang has answered all of my questions


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## 3clock7 (Sep 12, 2022)

Hey,
what do you think is the best way to solve corners after DR.
I tried hardly but i can´t do this intuitively. Is ther a way to do this or maybe a full PDF with all cases?


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## Silky (Sep 29, 2022)

Does anyone know when the first official optimal FMC solution was achieved in comp?


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## tx789 (Sep 30, 2022)

Silky said:


> Does anyone know when the first official optimal FMC solution was achieved in comp?


18 wr


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## hyn (Oct 3, 2022)

3clock7 said:


> Hey,
> what do you think is the best way to solve corners after DR.
> I tried hardly but i can´t do this intuitively. Is ther a way to do this or maybe a full PDF with all cases?


https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/fmc-a-guide-for-finding-htrs-once-youve-found-a-dr.87220/
There's this, but I haven't really understood it yet
and the pdf referenced above : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lYQnaF1VuiR7EDfi1DUcIJM0FYC2B3mo/view

Does anybody know how to do the edges for HTR apart from U-perms?


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## tx789 (Oct 6, 2022)

hyn said:


> https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/fmc-a-guide-for-finding-htrs-once-youve-found-a-dr.87220/
> There's this, but I haven't really understood it yet
> and the pdf referenced above : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lYQnaF1VuiR7EDfi1DUcIJM0FYC2B3mo/view
> 
> Does anybody know how to do the edges for HTR apart from U-perms?


You need to know how many quarter turns to solve corners and then you need to set up to a trigger. Not too good at that last part


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## alyzsnyzs (Oct 23, 2022)

Hey all,

Last night was pretty crazy for me, and if any of you check the fewest moves facebook group, you'll have likely seen why. Out of a random scramble I managed to beat my FMC PB by 4 moves and set what I believe is a new UWR single.

R' U' F L2 D2 R2 F2 U L2 D F2 R2 D' B2 F L2 F2 L D' R2 D2 L2 F2 R' U' F
(B' R F U' L') //EO (5/5)
(F) //DR-4E4C (1/6) 
L2 D F' //DR (3/9) 
U' B2 U' R2 D U //3C (6/15) 

L2 D F' @ U' B2 U' R2 D U F' L U F' R' B 
@ = F2 U' B2 U F2 U' B2 U (8-6) 

L2 D F U' B2 [U F2 U2 R2 D U] F' L U F' R' B 
[] = D' F2 D2 R2 //LMAO 

final: *L2 D F U' B2 D' F2 D2 R2 F' L U F' R' B*

Very very crazy solve, and I'm super proud, if not still blown away.


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## cuberswoop (Oct 23, 2022)

alyzsnyzs said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Last night was pretty crazy for me, and if any of you check the fewest moves facebook group, you'll have likely seen why. Out of a random scramble I managed to beat my FMC PB by 4 moves and set what I believe is a new UWR single.
> 
> ...


Pog

Now do it in comp.


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## DuckubingCuber347 (Oct 23, 2022)

alyzsnyzs said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Last night was pretty crazy for me, and if any of you check the fewest moves facebook group, you'll have likely seen why. Out of a random scramble I managed to beat my FMC PB by 4 moves and set what I believe is a new UWR single.
> 
> ...


This is indeed UWR, congratulations on being the first person to beat the sub-16 barrier! We now know it's humanly possible to find these insane solutions.


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## Cale S (Nov 1, 2022)

solutions from FMC on a Madison Terrace 2022


Spoiler: round 1



20, 21, 28 = 23.00

1) R' U' F L' D2 L' R2 B2 R' F2 U2 L2 B' D B2 L' D2 B' D' U2 B R2 B' R' U' F


Spoiler: 20



L B U F' // EO
(F2 U B2 R') // DR (8) 4q
(U') U B2 D R2 D // HTR (14)
R2 L2 B2 U2 R2 B2 // Finish (20)

Solution: L B U F' U B2 D R2 D R2 L2 B2 U2 R2 B2 U R B2 U' F2 (20)

comments:
- optimal after EO
- found the solution about 40 minutes in
- scramble is 18 optimal



2) R' U' F U2 F2 D' L2 U' R2 B2 U' L2 D2 B U B F L U R2 F U2 F R' U' F


Spoiler: 21



F' D' R B' // EO
L' U // DR-4e4c x2
D2 R' B2 L' D' // DR (11)
R F2 @ L' // 14 to 2e2e + slice with an 8-3 :0

@ = F2 R B2 D2 F2 L B2 U2 // 19 to slice

after DR:
R2^ B2 D2 F2 L^ B2 @ U2 L'
^ = w
@ = M // 21 to solved

Solution: F' D' R B' L' U D2 R' B2 L' D' L2 F2 U2 B2 R U2 R L' U2 L' (21)

comments:
- very silly finish 
- this attempt made a 20.00 official rolling mo3 (19, 20, 21)
- I found the solution in about 22 minutes, so I had time to check almost all the EOs I had, but I didn't find anything else decent
- scramble is 18 optimal



3) R' U' F R F' R2 U' B2 L2 R2 U' R2 D2 R D' R' D U2 F' U' L' D2 R' U' F


Spoiler: 28😢



(R') U F' L' // EO
(B' L2 F R2 F' D) // DR (10) 3q
R2 B' U2 F' U2 B2 @ L2 B' L2 F2 U2 L2 // garbage 3e skeleton

@ = D2 B' L2 U2 R2 F' U2 L2 // garbage 8-2 (somehow this is optimal)

Solution: U F' L' R2 B' U2 F' U2 B2 D2 B' L2 U2 R2 F' U2 B' L2 F2 U2 L2 D' F R2 F' L2 B R (28)

comments:
I only needed 22 on this attempt to tie WR, so not finding anything decent was frustrating, especially since the scramble had lots of EO options. I definitely used too much time finding EOs (I spent the first 17 minutes writing about 70), and ended up not having time to check most of them.

optimal for the DR is 23, but it doesn't seem like something I could find

this was the first DR I wrote down, but since it's 12 moves and didn't look that great, I assumed I would find something better and disregarded it. It turns out there's a very findable 22 after switching to inverse:
(F' R U2 F' L') // EO
(B) D2 R2 D' R2 U' F' // DR (12)
(D' B2 D' B2 R2 D') // HTR (18)
(B2 U2 B2 L2 F2) // Finish (22)
:/

the scramble is 18 optimal








Spoiler: round 2



25, 23, 22 = 23.33

1) R' U' F R2 U R2 D' L' U' B' R2 U2 L2 B2 U' D2 B2 D L U' R D R' U' F


Spoiler: 25



(U2 L R' U F') // EO
(L R' D' F2 D L') // DR (11) 2q
L2 F2 R2 D' B2 U // HTR (17)
R2 B2 R2 U' D' B2 U D // Finish (25)

Solution: L2 F2 R2 D' B2 U R2 B2 R2 U' D' B2 U D L D' F2 D R L' F U R L' U2 (25)

comments:
premade square tripped me up lol
I spent too long on block starts and had no idea what I was doing for the rest of the attempt

optimal for my DR is 24, but it doesn't seem like I could have found it

optimal for the scramble is 18 and is somewhat reasonable:
R2 U' B2 R' B' // EO
(U' L' U R D2 R D) // DR (11)
(U2 R F2 L U2 F2) // Finish (18)



2) R' U' F D' F2 U' L' U B D' F U' R2 F2 D2 F2 D2 R' D2 F2 B2 L F R' U' F


Spoiler: 23



L2 U' F' R // EO
(U F') B2 U B2 U' D2 F' L2 @ F' // DR (14) lol
U' R2 D2 F2 L2 U // 20 to 2e2e

@ = L2 F2 R2 F2 L2 B2 // 6-3

Solution: L2 U' F' R B2 U B2 U' D2 F R2 F2 L2 B2 F' U' R2 D2 F2 L2 U F U' (23)

comments:
kind of dumb but whatever 

scramble is 18 optimal



3) R' U' F R B2 U' L2 D U B2 D' B2 R B' F L' B2 R F2 D L2 F' R' U' F


Spoiler: 22



(D2 R2 D R') // EO
(D' B' U' B2 U) // DR (9) 4q
(F) R2 B' @ L2 D2 B' D2 B // HTR (17)
L2 D2 // 19 to 2e2e

@ = B2 R2 B2 L2 F2 L2 // 6-3

Solution: R2 B R2 B2 L2 F2 D2 B' D2 B L2 D2 F' U' B2 U B D R D' R2 D2 (22)

comments:
I noticed at the start of the attempt that U2 F B makes 2 squares, and you can make a 2x2x3 in 6 with U2 D' (D'), but I stopped myself from looking at block starts after 6 minutes

F U2 B U B was a nice EO, there are tons of DR variations with good corners that I looked at
21 is possible from this one:
F U2 B U B // EO
(U R2 D2 R) U R' B2 R' // DR (13)
B2 D' B2 R2 B2 D' R2 U // Finish (21)

I found the 9 move DR with like 8 minutes left, but I managed to find the solution in just a few minutes 
optimal for the DR is 21, but I'm satisfied with my solution

scramble is 17 optimal








Spoiler: round 3



22, 24, 25 = 23.67

1) R' U' F U R F2 L2 U' D' L2 F' U L D2 R F2 U2 L2 F2 L' D2 R2 B2 R' U' F


Spoiler: 22



(R' U' F') // EO
(U') U2 B2 U2 L2 R D // DR (10) 1q
L B2 D2 R' U2 D2 L' // HTR (17)
R2 D2 R2 B2 D2 // Finish (22)

Solution: U2 B2 U2 L2 R D L B2 D2 R' U2 D2 L' R2 D2 R2 B2 D2 U F U R (22)

comments:
- optimal after DR
- scramble is 17 optimal
- found the solution 30 minutes in
- I checked about 58 EOs and this was the only decent DR I had



2) R' U' F D2 L' U' F' U2 R2 D2 F' R2 F L D' F' R2 D2 F U F' R' U' F


Spoiler: 24



(L R' B R') // EO
(F) F2 D2 B2 U B2 U' B // DR (12)
F2 U ^ R2 U2 R2 F2 @ D2 ^ // 19 to 4c + slice

@ = F2 R2 U' L2 D B2 R2 D' L2 U // 4c alg with big cancel
^ = E2 // solve slice

Solution: F2 D2 B2 U B2 U' B F2 U' D2 L2 U R2 D F2 L2 D' R2 U' F' R B' R L' (24)

comments:
optimal after DR

wrote about 60 EOs and I think I checked most, but I didn't find anything good 

scramble is 18 optimal



3) R' U' F D' L' B2 L U2 B2 U2 L2 D2 R' B D' L B' R' U' B' R' F D R' U' F


Spoiler: 25



(F' L2 D' B) // EO
F2 L (L2 D R2 B2 U D' R) // DR (13)
(D' F2 U R2 L2 D2 L2 D L2 F2 U') // 24 to slice

after DR:
U F2 L2 D' L2 D2 L2 R2 [U' F2 D]
[] = D' L2 U' D2 // 25 to solved

Solution: F2 L U F2 L2 D' L2 D2 L2 R2 D' L2 U' D2 R' D U' B2 R2 D' L2 B' D L2 F (25)

comments:
annoying scramble :/ Even though the EO is 6/6/6, I only found about 33 EOs and after checking all of them, I didn't find any DRs under 12 moves.

with less than 2 minutes left I found 22 to slice on a different DR:
R2 F (R U F') // EO
(U D' R' L2 D L D') // DR (12) 2q
(L' U2 R') // HTR-2e
(U2 D2 R F2 D2 F2 R) // 22 to slice

and I tried to quickly insert it, but I couldn't even find a bad combination of slice insertions that worked. 24 (optimal for the DR) is possible by making 3 moves wide and inserting a slice that adds 2.

optimal for the scramble is 18





didn't get any good means but I beat all rolling average WRs:
20.00 mo3
21.67 avg5
22.10 avg12
22.52 avg25
23.64 avg50
26.43 avg100 (lol)


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## irontwig (Nov 4, 2022)

Cale S said:


> I definitely used too much time finding EOs (I spent the first 17 minutes writing about 70), and ended up not having time to check most of them.





Cale S said:


> - I checked about 58 EOs and this was the only decent DR I had





Cale S said:


> wrote about 60 EOs and I think I checked most, but I didn't find anything good


Yikes, that's some serious workflow.


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## abunickabhi (Nov 8, 2022)

Nice Hebrew explanation of FMC concepts by Ben Baron.
I understand a bit of Hebrew so this video was useful for me.


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## xyzzy (Dec 6, 2022)

This is so stupid that it's actually infuriating: Speed FMC PB single, 34.82 (26 moves in 8:49.34), from the just-expired weekly comp.

Scramble: R' U' F L2 B2 F L2 B' L2 R2 F' U' L' U' F D L2 D' L' D U' F' R' U' F

U2 R B' R B' L' // 222 (6/6)
R' B U2 B' R2 // 223 (5/11)
U' F2 // F2L-1 (2/13)
F U F' U L' U' L // ZBLS (7-1/19)
L' U R' U' R2 D B2 D' R' L U' // ZBLL (11-4/26)

Mediocre 222 but everything after that just fell together. Huge time loss (well, a few minutes) because I was trying to recall the ZBLL, and another huge time loss because for some reason I initially wrote the first move as D2 instead of U2. This could very well have been a 4-minute solve if I didn't suck!

(Also kind of terrifying that out of 6 normal FMC and 10 speed FMC attempts in the past two weeks, this is the only sub-30 I managed to get.)


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## xyzzy (Dec 17, 2022)

Not _especially_ good, but still decent compared to my other recent attempts. All three were EO, then blockbuilding, then insertion(s) – the classical method of the pre-DR era.



Spoiler: 28



scramble:
B2 D' F2 U' L' D' R2 U2 B' F D' L2 R' B D L2 B2

solution:
B' U' D' R B' U' B2 L R2 B2
R D2 U R2 U' D L D L' D
F2 U' R U F2 D R B2

exp:
B' U' D' R B' // EO; square + pairs (5/5)
U' B2 L // 222 (3/8)
R2 B2 R D2 // wrong axis 223 (4/12)
U R2 U' @ R B2 // ab2c2e (5/17)

@ = D L D L' D F2 U' R U F2 D // J perm setup (11/28)

Spent a fair amount of time on pure blockbuilding starts (look at those free pairs!) before giving up on that idea.





Spoiler: 29



scramble:
D' U' F2 U2 L' D' U2 L U' B' L R U' R D U R2 F

solution:
Bw Dw' Bw' Rw' Uw Bw Lw' Fw Rw2 Lw'
Fw' Bw' Lw Rw Uw2 Lw2 Rw' Uw2 Lw' Fw'
Dw Lw' Fw' Uw Lw2 Bw2 Dw' Rw2 Uw'
… is what I would have treated as my final solution if I was in the mood for trolling, but I didn't have the courage to actually do it.

real solution:
F R' D' L' D R D' B L2 R'
U' D' L R F2 L2 R' U2 R' D'
R U' R' D R2 B2 U' B2 U'

exp:
F @ D' L' B // EO (4/4)
L2 R' // pairs (2/6)
U' D' L R F2 L2 // wrong axis 223 (6/12)
R' U # R // EO again; square (3/15)
B2 U' B2 U' // ab5c (4/19)

@ = [R', D' L' D] // 4 cancel (8-4/23)
# = [U, R' D' R] // 2 cancel (8-2/29)

Found the 29 early, so I had plenty of time to mess around.





Spoiler: 31



scramble:
B D L U2 F2 R2 F2 D' R' D2 L' U' R B R2 U' L U2

solution:
R U' B' D B U2 B' D' U' L'
U' R' B2 U' B2 L D' L' R' D2
R D R D2 R D R' D2 R D
R'

exp:
R U @ B' // EO (3/3)
U' L' U' // square (3/6)
R' B2 U' B2 // 222 (4/10)
L D' L' // 223 (3/13)
R' D2 R D R // F2L-1 (5/18)
D2 R D R' D2 R D R' // ab3c (8/26)
@ = [U2, B' D B] // 3 cancel (8-3/31)

Struggled to find a passable skeleton for this. 26 to 3c is pretty jank (and the 3c case at the end is a 10-mover; usually those have bad insertions) but luckily the insertion is just a normal 8-move comm with 3 cancel.

Had a 17 to 4c3e which is borderline but I didn't find a good insertion from there.
R U B' // EO (3/3)
(D2 B2 D) U // p222 (4/7)
R' D B2 L' // p223 (4/11)
R D R' D L' R2 // align; ab3c1t3e (6/17)


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## ChrisCuber123 (Dec 20, 2022)

22.67 mean from Pittsburgh Fall 2022 (PR but sad):



Spoiler: 1. 22



R' U' F L' D2 F2 D' R F' B' R' L2 D2 B2 R2 F2 D' B2 U2 R2 B' D R' U' F
L' B2 F2 L // EO
B U' R2 F' D' // DR (9)
(B) L2 B D2 B // HTR (14)
F2 L2 F2 B2 D2 // 2e2e (19)
R2 B2 R2 B2 R2 B2 // finish (25)
Take out B F2 and F2 B2 and then resolve slice for 22

Comments: I took a long break from FMC (with DR at least, I will always be of the opinion that blocks are more fun) after NAC and only did like 4 actual DR attempts in the 5 months between NAC and this comp. As a result, I spent way too much time fumbling around with HTR on this DR and not enough time checking more EOs, though I'm not sure if I would've beaten a 22 with proper time management anyway.





Spoiler: 2. 22



R' U' F U R B2 U' D2 B' D2 R' B2 U' B R2 F' R2 D2 L2 F U2 F2 R' U' F
R' L2 F' // EO
D2 // sq
L' U2 L2 // 2 more sqs
F2 R F2 U2 // F2L-1
L2 U' L U L2 D U' L' U L D' // LL skip lol (22)

Comments: I don't know what happened for half of this attempt, I literally wrote down two DRs and neither had good corners, just a lot of blocks. I got too distracted by the blocks on this scramble and at 40 minutes had nothing, then found this by around 43 minutes and just submitted to use the bathroom 





Spoiler: 3. 24 (sad)



R' U' F L2 U2 B F L2 D2 B2 R' B R2 B' D' B R2 D2 U R' U' R' U' F
D F U' B // EO
R2 L2 U' R U2 R // DR (10)
(D2 B2 D B2 U' * R2 D' F2 D2) // 2e2e (19)
*: B2 U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 (6-1)

funny thing I found:
R' D F U' B // EO
F2 R2 L2 D2 (L2 D U2) // F2L (12)

Comments: This solve makes the mean extremely bittersweet for me. I found this 24 about 20 minutes in so I knew that I had clinched sub-23 and was relatively relaxed for the rest of the attempt, perhaps too much so since I spent a non-negligible amount of time on the 2 move square (lol). I ended up missing a fairly obvious 23 off my DR, which cost me 22.33, but worse than this, Owen Widdis got a 19 that was *very* obvious after R D F' U' B, an EO I didn't check because of random time-wasting throughout the attempt, checking R' first, and, again, getting too distracted by blocks. Being literally a ' away from WR hurts but I can't complain too much about jumping from 23.67 to 22.67 on almost no practice.


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## Caden Fisher (Dec 20, 2022)

I wanna try FMC. Where do I start?


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## Imsoosm (Dec 20, 2022)

Caden Fisher said:


> I wanna try FMC. Where do I start?


You can start by learning more methods, and using a combination of them to get the shortest solution. I started directly by using blockbuilding (requires some knowledge on how turning one piece affects the other, not too hard to get the hang of), then finishing off with CFOP last layer. Blockbuilding+optimal OLL and PLL algorithms can make your solutions sub-50 to sub-45 moves.

After you are sufficiently proficient with blockbuilding, you can begin learning NISS. I'm using NISS and blockbuilding + CFOP LL, but usually I can find a solution with either a skip or a ZBLL that I know. This can get you to sub-40. After NISS you can start with the advanced FMC things like DR and insertions.


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## SkewbIsTheBestEvent (Dec 20, 2022)

Does anybody have a list of DR Triggers that I can use? I just started learning DR. I'm starting to get the concepts but it is still a bit confusing.


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## SkewbIsTheBestEvent (Dec 21, 2022)

SkewbIsTheBestEvent said:


> Does anybody have a list of DR Triggers that I can use? I just started learning DR. I'm starting to get the concepts but it is still a bit confusing.


Is anybody going to answer my question?


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## OreKehStrah (Dec 21, 2022)

SkewbIsTheBestEvent said:


> Does anybody have a list of DR Triggers that I can use? I just started learning DR. I'm starting to get the concepts but it is still a bit confusing.


There’s a large list of them on cuberoot


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## OreKehStrah (Dec 21, 2022)

Caden Fisher said:


> I wanna try FMC. Where do I start?


Start with just using blockbuilding. You’ll want to then learn about pure comms, skeletons, and using insertions. Then you can start doing EO first and learn to use NISS. That’s all you need to get sub30s.
If you decide you like FMC you then go down the DR to HTR rabbit hole.


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## SkewbIsTheBestEvent (Dec 21, 2022)

OreKehStrah said:


> There’s a large list of them on cuberoot


Thank You!


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## Caden Fisher (Dec 22, 2022)

OreKehStrah said:


> Start with just using blockbuilding. You’ll want to then learn about pure comms, skeletons, and using insertions. Then you can start doing EO first and learn to use NISS. That’s all you need to get sub30s.
> If you decide you like FMC you then go down the DR to HTR rabbit hole.





Imsoosm said:


> You can start by learning more methods, and using a combination of them to get the shortest solution. I started directly by using blockbuilding (requires some knowledge on how turning one piece affects the other, not too hard to get the hang of), then finishing off with CFOP last layer. Blockbuilding+optimal OLL and PLL algorithms can make your solutions sub-50 to sub-45 moves.
> 
> After you are sufficiently proficient with blockbuilding, you can begin learning NISS. I'm using NISS and blockbuilding + CFOP LL, but usually I can find a solution with either a skip or a ZBLL that I know. This can get you to sub-40. After NISS you can start with the advanced FMC things like DR and insertions.


Thanks! Is there a good tutorial for blockbuilding tips? I think I have the general idea but I don’t want to miss anything


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## OreKehStrah (Dec 22, 2022)

Caden Fisher said:


> Thanks! Is there a good tutorial for blockbuilding tips? I think I have the general idea but I don’t want to miss anything


You can check out the FMC section on cuberoot for some nice 222 cases to make sure you are efficiently building them.


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## Samuel Baird (Dec 24, 2022)

Reconstruction of my official 22 single and 25.xx mean fail


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