# Browser Reviews



## pjk (Oct 9, 2006)

I typed up some browser reviews, if you're interested in seeing what the top browsers are, please check it out at:
http://www.cleancomputerhelp.com/browser-reviews-1

Comments are appreciated.


----------



## Stefan (Oct 9, 2006)

Why would anyone want to download Firefox 1.0.7? Btw, that animal, that's a fox, right? Cause I recently read a news article that called it a red bear.

About the Avant Browser: you say I can get version 10.2 there but it's version 11. Btw, your "review" text is pretty much copied from their website. Though you did leave out their "Avant Browser is the fastest web browser on Earth" without providing any reason for doing so.

Haven't looked at the others yet.


----------



## AvGalen (Oct 9, 2006)

That animal is not a fox, it is a firefox. AKA red panda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Panda

Personally I like IE7 RC1 (I love unfinished software) and Opera (mostly because of its text-zoom feature, CTRL+Enter logins and lack of "daily" security updates)


----------



## MasterofRubix (Oct 9, 2006)

in sense that red panda of yours does kinda look like fox. 


Personnaly i still prefer to use basic internet explorer, it has everything i need and "daily security updates" arent really a problem if you have high-speed internet.


----------



## pjk (Oct 9, 2006)

Stefan: People are people, they may download any version they like, there are pros and cons to each. As far as Avant, yes, on many, I copied sources off their site to get they information. As time passes, I plan on adding details for each browser, updating with newer versions, allowing users to post comments and rate browsers, etc.


----------



## deKeijzer (Nov 26, 2006)

I think you should link to the latest firefox..
btw opera`s extra features are all found in firefox add ons..

* Tabbed browsing
* RSS reader
* Download manager
* Mouse gestures
* Note pad
* Blocks pop-up ads
* Can search Amazon.com and eBay straight from the browser
* Can search several search engines at once
* Can save all open windows as a session
* Can drag a picture to save it
* Can fit page to browser width
* Built-in password manager
* Chat/e-mail/voice interaction

And I have never encounterd a website that IE could and FF could not render, so the 'large surface area' isn`t a complete truth. 
IE is less secure because it is the main browser, generally used by less experienced PC users. (this is the truth actually, look at % at a webmaster forum)
So crackers have a bigger chance at succes by attacking the main browser.


----------



## pjk (Nov 26, 2006)

I do need to update it with all the recent changes, I will soon. The "large surface area" is actually true. IE isn't less secure because of the number of people that use it, that has nothing to do with it. IE is made with more features, while FF is made with less.


----------



## Johannes91 (Nov 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by PJK+Nov 26 2006, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>*QUOTE* (PJK @ Nov 26 2006, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>IE isn't less secure because of the number of people that use it, that has nothing to do with it.[/b]_


_No, that's *exactly* why it's less secure. deKeijzer explained it very clearly, why don't you get it?

<!--QuoteBegin-PJK_@Nov 26 2006, 10:08 PM
*IE is made with more features, while FF is made with less.*[/quote]You just keep saying that, but could you tell what are the features that IE has but FF doesn't have? And why would that affect the security of a browser?


----------



## AvGalen (Nov 27, 2006)

ActiveX?


----------



## Erik (Nov 27, 2006)

Firefox rulezzz B)


----------



## pjk (Nov 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Johannes91_@Nov 27 2006, 04:22 AM
> *
> 
> 
> ...


 How does the amount of people that use a product affect it's security? Yes, it opens it up because more people are using it, but that doesn't make the browser itself less secure. ok at it this way, for example:
Say 1 person downloads the latest version of IE
Saw another person downloads the latest version of FF

Which one would be more vulnerable to an attack, and why? I want to see your side of this point.

When downloaded, the original copy of IE has more features than an original version of FF. FF offers their features as "add-ons" while IE puts the features into the browser to begin with and allows users to remove them as needed, rather than add them like FF. The amount of "features" that something has, the "larger the surface area" that something will be. The larger it is, the more spots there are on it to be attacked.


----------



## Stefan (Mar 6, 2011)

Yah yah... didn't want to make a new thread.

What is a browser? I'm a little bit shocked...

[youtubewide]o4MwTvtyrUQ[/youtubewide]


----------



## Owen (Mar 6, 2011)

Haha, I feel smart now.


----------



## pjk (Mar 6, 2011)

Stefan said:


> Yah yah... didn't want to make a new thread.
> 
> What is a browser? I'm a little bit shocked...
> 
> [video]


I'm actually not surprised at all. Considering how many people use computers and the internet, most people know little or nothing about how any of it works. The thing I find sad and that most people don't even question it, or even wonder how it works. It leaves a great potential for the people who do.


----------



## Stefan (Mar 7, 2011)

Yeah, actually I find this enlightening. Sheds a light on how apparently most people use computers and the web. And I can somewhat understand. Also puts a discussion I once or twice had into perspective...

Someone I know calls me:
"Hi Stefan, I have a computer problem, can you help?"
- "What's the problem?"
"Blah blah blah..."
- "Ok, start a browser"
"A what?"
- "A browser"
"I don't know what that is"
- "Yes you do, I've told you several times and you use it every day"
"I don't know it, just tell me what to do"
- (rage...)


----------



## Dene (Mar 7, 2011)

This is not surprising at all. Why should you know the jargon as long as you can use it? There's no reason whatsoever.


----------



## pjk (Mar 7, 2011)

Dene said:


> This is not surprising at all. Why should you know the jargon as long as you can use it? There's no reason whatsoever.


It's not jargon. It is a fundamental piece of how you browse the internet. People don't know the different between a search engine and a browser, that is sad. But as I said before, the thing I find sad and that most people don't even question it, or even wonder how it works. People today are so vulnerable because they don't think.


----------



## TheMachanga (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm surprised someone didn't mention Mario.


----------



## r_517 (Mar 7, 2011)

i had an online survey 4 years ago when most people were using IE5/6. i remember one question was what browser do you use and why do you like it. most people in the survey thought that a browser is exactly equal to Internet Explorer.

even now, there are still more than 35% internet users in China who uses the obsolete IE6 as their only or main browser according to Microsoft's survey recently. Most companies who offers online services such as internet banking of almost every bank in China, alipay(a Chinese version paypal), online bill service, online phone service etc require users to use IE6 (or even IE5) as the only supported browser. 

on the other hand, Google/Firefox has poor compatibility especially with Discuz!, a forum package that more than 90% of Chinese forums are based on that.


----------



## Tall5001 (Mar 7, 2011)

wow i watched that what is a browser and people can be really stupid!!! its sad that people dont even know what a browser is and the difference between a browser and a search engine is!

Also i want to say that there is no Google Chrome review up there!


----------



## Zarxrax (Mar 7, 2011)

Using the internet without knowing what a browser is, is like speedcubing the 3x3x3 without knowing what a Rubik's cube is.


----------



## Edward (Mar 7, 2011)

Never understood how people don't learn the difference between search engine and browser.


----------



## mcciff2112 (Mar 7, 2011)

Tall5001 said:


> Also i want to say that there is no Google Chrome review up there!


 
This thread was made in 2006. Google Chrome wasn't released until 2 years later.


----------



## Dene (Mar 7, 2011)

pjk said:


> It's not jargon. It is a fundamental piece of how you browse the internet. People don't know the different between a search engine and a browser, that is sad. But as I said before, the thing I find sad and that most people don't even question it, or even wonder how it works. People today are so vulnerable because they don't think.


 
I think you overestimate how many people use the internet. A classic example was that big black dude. I'm not being racist, I'm going by what he said. By the sounds of it that guy probably rarely uses the internet. In New Zealand, only approximately 71% of the country even had internet access in 2008. I put some other countries in there too. Feel free to play around and see how atypical this is of the world in general.

Anyway, I bet 99.999% of the population have absolutely no idea how a phone even works. I certainly don't, nor should I, and nor should I care. As long as there are people to deal with problems when they arise it doesn't matter at all. I say this, because phones have been around for way longer than the internet and are way more common and therefore you would think (according to the logic that you appear to be employing) that almost everyone would know about phones by now.


----------



## pjk (Mar 7, 2011)

Dene said:


> I think you overestimate how many people use the internet. A classic example was that big black dude. I'm not being racist, I'm going by what he said. By the sounds of it that guy probably rarely uses the internet. In New Zealand, only approximately 71% of the country even had internet access in 2008. I put some other countries in there too. Feel free to play around and see how atypical this is of the world in general.


I understand that, and I don't think I overestimate it. I am assuming though that almost everyone that was interviewed in Time Square uses the internet on a regular basis (most of them seemed to have decent knowledge about it. eg. the woman talking about Yahoo, or almost all of them mentioning Google).



> Anyway, I bet 99.999% of the population have absolutely no idea how a phone even works. I certainly don't, nor should I, and nor should I care. As long as there are people to deal with problems when they arise it doesn't matter at all. I say this, because phones have been around for way longer than the internet and are way more common and therefore you would think (according to the logic that you appear to be employing) that almost everyone would know about phones by now.


I find this fact almost as sad. The biggest difference though being that a phone (how it works) is much more complicated than knowing simply what a browser is. A better comparison to your scenario would be if they asked "how does the internet work?".


----------



## whauk (Mar 7, 2011)

i think it tells us that people knowing what a browser is dont go out to the street.


----------



## timeless (Mar 7, 2011)

Stefan said:


> Yah yah... didn't want to make a new thread.
> 
> What is a browser? I'm a little bit shocked...
> 
> [youtubewide]o4MwTvtyrUQ[/youtubewide]


 
there was a similar survey at my school
what does OS stand for?


----------



## RyanReese09 (Mar 7, 2011)

Operating System.


----------



## Dene (Mar 7, 2011)

pjk said:


> I find this fact almost as sad. The biggest difference though being that a phone (how it works) is much more complicated than knowing simply what a browser is. A better comparison to your scenario would be if they asked "how does the internet work?".


 
That comment was in reference to your "or even wonder how [a browser] works"

But I do wonder why you find this to be such a sad thing. The world has moved away from the majority of people having a vast knowledge of the components of their surroundings (when their surroundings were simple and didn't require technical understanding). Nowadays people specialise in things (well, not everyone). This means that one doesn't need to know every detail about everything around them. If they need help with something, there is someone that knows the answer! This means that the few elite in a subject can push that subject further ahead (is this starting to sound familiar to you... like modern science?).

So computer people can understand computers and make them work nicely for me so that I can put all of my focus on my own matters of interest (psychology at the moment) and perform to the maximum because I am not distracted about things such as how a browser works.

Personally, I think this is a good thing and is the foundation upon which the western world is moving forward at the most rapid pace in the history of the human race.


----------



## Johannes91 (Mar 7, 2011)

Dene: I think you make it sound really black-and-white. There's a huge difference between complete ignorance and having a PhD. You can get a high-level understanding of what happens when you browse in half an hour. Knowing that your monitor is not a PC shouldn't be too much to ask, either (grr...).

I'm not studying to become an English teacher or a professional writer, but I'm still trying to learn the language. I'm not a historian but I want to know and understand at least some of it. Specialization is for insects and all that.


----------



## Kirjava (Mar 7, 2011)

Dene said:


> So computer people can understand computers and make them work nicely for me so that I can put all of my focus on my own matters of interest (psychology at the moment) and perform to the maximum because I am not distracted about things such as how a browser works.


 
You make it sound like learning how a browser works would take a significant amount of time.


----------



## CubicNL (Mar 7, 2011)

TheMachanga said:


> I'm surprised someone didn't mention Mario.


 I was thinking the exact same


----------



## Sa967St (Mar 7, 2011)

Tall5001 said:


> its sad that people dont even know what a browser is and the difference between a browser and a search engine is!


 They were asked if they knew what the difference between them was was, which caused some of them to assume that they were similar but had something that distinguished one from the other. When those people answered, they didn't realize that they were two very different things, because of the wording of the question. Saying that they don't know what the difference between a browser and a search engine is, based on the survey, is a misleading fact. If the surveyers asked what someone what a search engine was, then asked the same person what a browser was, the results would likely be different.


----------



## Zarxrax (Mar 7, 2011)

You could explain what both a browser and a search engine is to someone in about 1 minute.
Such ignorance could be understandable if someone had never used a computer before, but other than that, I just don't get it.
This is akin to not knowing the difference between an ipod and earbuds, or not knowing the difference between a hamburger and a hamburger patty.


----------



## ben1996123 (Mar 7, 2011)

Stefan said:


> Yah yah... didn't want to make a new thread.
> 
> What is a browser? I'm a little bit shocked...
> 
> [video]



lol 1:17.

I use Googel Kroam.


----------



## Dene (Mar 7, 2011)

Johannes91 said:


> Dene: I think you make it sound really black-and-white. There's a huge difference between complete ignorance and having a PhD. You can get a high-level understanding of what happens when you browse in half an hour. Knowing that your monitor is not a PC shouldn't be too much to ask, either (grr...).


 
A good point that you and Kirjava both make (pretty much the same point anyway). 

I'm sure one could gain a reasonable understanding of how a lot of things work in half an hour. For example, how the toilet flushing system works; how the remote control for the garage door works, how the air conditioner works, how the sewing machine works, how to change a tyre, how to build a fence, how to paint a house properly, etc. etc. I could go on all day. However most people don't know the vast majority of these pretty basic things. Why is that? Well, I think a lot of it has to do with intimidation. It might be hard for the likes of yourself (a very smart person) to understand that. But for someone that is not so educationally inclined, learning new things can be a very intimidating and lengthy process. It's easier just to leave these things to electricians and plumbers and builders and mechanics etc. 

Again, I ask, as long as one can use the toilet, as long as one can use the garage remote, as long as someone can use a browser, as long as someone can use a search engine, why bother learning about them? Bear in mind that the vast majority of the population is intimidated by the thought of approaching such tasks because they don't learn as easily as you do.


----------

