# What puzzle do you think the WCA should add next?



## stoic (Dec 14, 2013)

I know that the community is excited since the announcement that Skweb will be official from January, and I know that there has been an appetite for this change for some time. 

My question is this: what puzzle would you like to see next? There is a vast amount of twisty puzzles out there. Are there any front-runners which could potentially be considered for official-ness?

Axis cube? Super Square-1? Fisher cube? Octagon barrel? Gear cube? Some sort of cuboid? 

What other puzzles are people enjoying speedsolving?

(For the purposes of this discussion, I think it's pretty safe to assume that puzzles of higher order than 7x7x7 or 5BLD are unlikely to be added any time soon; also I'm hoping this won't turn into a thread about removal of puzzles)


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## Ninja Storm (Dec 14, 2013)

I think things are perfectly fine the way they are.


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## XTowncuber (Dec 14, 2013)

I think things are pretty good the way they are, but if we had to add one I would say master pyraminx.


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## notfeliks (Dec 14, 2013)

Personally I would like to see a cuboid other than square-1, like a 3x3x5 maybe.


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## ottozing (Dec 14, 2013)

I'd like 2BLD for obvious reasons


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## Mikel (Dec 14, 2013)

You say we shouldn't consider a higher order of BLD than 5BLD (6, 7, etc.). With that taken into account, I would like to see 5x5 multi blind added as an official event.


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## Genesis (Dec 14, 2013)

8x8 
Just kidding, it's pointless
It's good the way it currently is


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## CyanSandwich (Dec 14, 2013)

2x2 multibld would be fun.


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## TMOY (Dec 14, 2013)

Since you said "What puzzle" and not "What event", for me 332 would definitely be the best pick. Fast, easy to scramble, and significantly different from current official puzzles.


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## Jaysammey777 (Dec 14, 2013)

it'll be whatever the community takes interest in next.

But that's in the future, so we wont know now.


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## Jaeyong Lee (Dec 14, 2013)

44,55multi BLD


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## DrKorbin (Dec 14, 2013)

Rex cube
Professor Pyraminx
Vulcano
Something from Crazy cubes


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## Sa967St (Dec 14, 2013)

ellwd said:


> (For the purposes of this discussion, I think it's pretty safe to assume that puzzles of higher order than 7x7x7 or 5BLD are unlikely to be added any time soon; also I'm hoping this won't turn into a thread about removal of puzzles)


It's also safe to assume that puzzles that are solved just like a 3x3x3 or are OH versions of current official events, are very unlikely to be added.


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## mycube (Dec 14, 2013)

Mikel said:


> You say we shouldn't consider a higher order of BLD than 5BLD (6, 7, etc.). With that taken into account, I would like to see 5x5 multi blind added as an official event.



yay discussion about 1/2 (5bld)multi -> DNF or already a 5bld multi-success? it's just one of them solved and not a multiple-success


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## Lucas Garron (Dec 14, 2013)

Note that we don't keep a queue of things to add "next". However, if there is an event with sufficient community interest that is worth adding (because it's interesting enough and also practical to hold), the WRC can propose it to the Board.

Almost none of the suggestions that usually come up in threads like this have any chance of becoming official events.
Skewb has always been the most reasonable candidate, but it's now no longer a subject of these threads. ;-)

I personally want to see speed BLD, but unfortunately there isn't enough interest from cubers at home.

Some WRC members are very interested in Team BLD; it adds something interesting, but there are logistical problems.

Special events (OH/BLD) are pretty much only for 3x3x3, with the exception of big cube BLD. I don't see a reason why that would change any time soon.
Perhaps something like 3x3x2 or Mirror Blocks would be interesting, but they feel more like curious variants than true "events".

But never say never, eh? ;-)
It's completely up to community interest. If you care about an event, make it a legitimate pursuit.


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## avgdi (Dec 14, 2013)

I've always felt like 3x3x2 would be a perfect event to add. It's different enough from what we have already, and it's a short event.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 14, 2013)

6BLD or 2x2OH


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## TheNextFeliks (Dec 14, 2013)

CyanSandwich said:


> 2x2 multibld would be fun.



This. Or a cuboid. Maybe 3x3x4.


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## kcl (Dec 14, 2013)

I could see mirror blocks happening.


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## Amir Nafisi (Dec 14, 2013)

I agree with Drew I think Mastermorphix is the best chose


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## ~Adam~ (Dec 14, 2013)

Right now I don't think we need anymore.

If we were forced to pick a new puzzle now I would vote for 3x3x5 cuboid.
I think the 3x3x2 is a little too simple for a cuboid but it would be my 2nd choice.



DrKorbin said:


> Professor Pyraminx
> Vulcano



No. They are only made by Mefferts who only produce about 8 of each puzzle.


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## XTowncuber (Dec 14, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> Right now I don't think we need anymore.
> 
> If we were forced to pick a new puzzle now I would vote for 3x3x5 cuboid.
> I think the 3x3x2 is a little too simple for a cuboid but it would be my 2nd choice.
> ...



About 8? Is that a typo? Both of those puzzles are readily available.


Amir Nafisi said:


> I agree with Drew I think Mastermorphix is the best chose


I actually said master pyraminx.  (A pyraminx with one added layer).


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## Michael Womack (Dec 14, 2013)

another thought how about 3OHBLD Or do Feet with combining with OH or 2hand. what about Tetraminx this puzzle http://www.mefferts.com/products/details.php?lang=en&category=13&id=654


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## ~Adam~ (Dec 14, 2013)

XTowncuber said:


> About 8? Is that a typo? Both of those puzzles are readily available.



It was an intentional under exaggeration.
Mefferts make small runs of their puzzles typically.
If they still have those puzzles available it's likely to be because they haven't sold very well.


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## mangocuber (Dec 14, 2013)

How about higher layer megaminx maybe the flowerminx or master kilo minx.


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## MaeLSTRoM (Dec 14, 2013)

I think pyraminx crystal could be pretty fun if it was considered, but there really isn't the interest atm.


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## Sajwo (Dec 14, 2013)

remove clock and feet, add mirror blocks and vertex turning octahedron


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## uberCuber (Dec 14, 2013)

3x3x5


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## Amir Nafisi (Dec 14, 2013)

I forgot put ,  but I agree with all pyramid families Drew


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## bronycuber1013 (Dec 14, 2013)

2bld and 2 multibld


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## PeelingStickers (Dec 14, 2013)

A team event would be pretty cool, either TeamBLD or a relay of some sort.


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## kcl (Dec 15, 2013)

*What puzzle should WCA add next?*



PeelingStickers said:


> A team event would be pretty cool, either TeamBLD or a relay of some sort.



Actually yeah teamBLD.

Edit: Relays would be cool too.. Like 2-5 relay could be an event maybe.


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## kunparekh18 (Dec 15, 2013)

Relays would be awesome


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## Dene (Dec 15, 2013)

I would love to see helicube <3


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## Logical101 (Dec 15, 2013)

1x3x3 would be somthing


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## tx789 (Dec 15, 2013)

nothing. Skewb will be offical next year but it took years for this to happen. The next event too be added will be years away.


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## Tim Major (Dec 15, 2013)

I have a master Pyraminx (Pyra with an added layer) and it turns worse than a loose Rubik's 5x5.

If an event similar to Pyraminx was made I'd prefer this puzzle (made by DaYan and turns really well)

http://china-magic-cube.com/goods.asp?gid=34

A transparent version without ball bearings was given away at a Melbourne comp as prizes and it turned really well and is fun/different.

My favourite unofficial event is this (more fun than skewb imo )

90% of the suggestions in this thread I don't like. Puzzles that are DIFFERENT like this, helicube or events like team BLD I like. Suggestions like 2bld I really disagree with. The top 10 2x2 solvers would be the top 10 2bld solvers. Multi 2bld with a 10 minute time? I'd like that more but still not a lot.


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## Torch (Dec 15, 2013)

I think most people are forgetting the purpose of this thread was NOT to suggest variants of existing puzzles (e.g. 2BLD). The purpose is to suggest completely new puzzles to become official.


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## mangocuber (Dec 15, 2013)

Why has nobody mentioned dino cube it is really old and should be a candidate


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## Logical101 (Dec 15, 2013)

killominx as a 2x2 for megaminx


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## elrog (Dec 15, 2013)

I'd like to atleast see one somewhat challanging puzzle added to the WCA,but the problem is that none of the harder puzzle are speedcubes. I personally would like to see the circle cube added.

Edit: I also think speed BLD or FMC BLD would be cool.


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## Kirjava (Dec 15, 2013)

no guys we should hold my favourite non-wca-official puzzle


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## LNZ (Dec 15, 2013)

I would suggest:

4x4x6, 3x3x5


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## MatejMuzatko (Dec 15, 2013)

If puzzle: Square one would be fun...
If event: 234, 2345 or 234567 relay... 
But I like current state of events...


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## Username (Dec 15, 2013)

MatejMuzatko said:


> If puzzle: Square one would be fun...



Square1 is already an event


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## Carrot (Dec 15, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> It was an intentional under exaggeration.
> Mefferts make small runs of their puzzles typically.
> If they still have those puzzles available it's likely to be because they haven't sold very well.



smaller runs? nahh, more like they discard the runs after a while  (They only do smaller runs on their special edition puzzless, but that's understandable ^_^)


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## Nathan Dwyer (Dec 15, 2013)

I'm all for speedBLD replacing feet. 3x3xn would be fun too


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## Robert-Y (Dec 15, 2013)

Square-2 anyone?

I think it's kinda "unique" enough and I think it's fun. Also it's young and not that many decent methods have been discovered yet.


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## EMI (Dec 15, 2013)

Robert-Y said:


> Square-2 anyone?
> 
> I think it's kinda "unique" enough and I think it's fun. Also it's young and not that many decent methods have been discovered yet.



I just bought ordered one as I realized how awesome solving it must be. But if any, Domino cube would propably be the most reasonable. (But rather just keep it the way it is)


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## szalejot (Dec 15, 2013)

2x2 multiblind sounds fun


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## ortwin (Dec 15, 2013)

EVENT: Combined FMC , OH and BLD (kind of triathlon in cubing)

FMC should be linear solving maybe ten minutes. Only the three lowest move counts make it to the second part where the solve is applied onehanded blind. The time in seconds it takes for this second part is added to the move count from the first part. Lowest number wins.


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## Royiky (Dec 15, 2013)

Mastermorphix would be awesome


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## ~Adam~ (Dec 15, 2013)

2x2 MBLD maybe with a much shorter time limit (20 mins?), but seems unlikely.


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## blade740 (Dec 15, 2013)

I am definitely a big fan of Team BLD. Everyone loves it and while there are a few logistical issues to sort out, it's not really difficult to run once everyone knows the rules.


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## TDM (Dec 15, 2013)

Obviously, as Lucas said, it's unlikely any of these will be added. But just what I think could maybe be interesting:
Relays (234, and maybe 2345)
Cuboids (idk anything about cuboids, so I can't suggest which one would be good)
Square-1 BLD
SpeedBLD (with a time limit for memo, obviously)
4x4 MBLD
I was thinking TeamBLD, but you'd have a lot of people shouting at the same time and it would get very confusing. You could also hear what other people are saying and learn information about a scramble before attempting it.


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## kcl (Dec 15, 2013)

But why does nobody consider yoyoBLD


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## Trexrush1 (Dec 18, 2013)

2x2 OH and BLD would be easy to hold compared to other sugguestions.

Plus, they could attract competitors (especially 2x2 OH)

Also Dino Cube, but that is unlikely.

I like the idea of relays.


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## The Minxer (Dec 18, 2013)

Fisher cube or Mastermorphix would be awesome.


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## applemobile (Dec 18, 2013)

Magic.


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## lucascube (Dec 19, 2013)

2x2 bld (multi aswell) would be awesome!


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## Ranzha (Dec 19, 2013)

TDM said:


> I was thinking TeamBLD, but you'd have a lot of people shouting at the same time and it would get very confusing. You could also hear what other people are saying and learn information about a scramble before attempting it.



I doubt there would be any shouting. If you watch videos of people doing TeamBLD, communication is at a reasonable speaking volume.


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## TDM (Dec 19, 2013)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> I doubt there would be any shouting. If you watch videos of people doing TeamBLD, communication is at a reasonable speaking volume.


Well not quite shouting, but it could get quite loud. And some people could shout to be heard more. The videos of people doing TBLD don't usually have 10 other people trying to tell someone what to do at the same time.


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## Trexrush1 (Dec 19, 2013)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> I doubt there would be any shouting. If you watch videos of people doing TeamBLD, communication is at a reasonable speaking volume.



Even if shouting isnt a problem, recording the data to the wca is. How could you record the solutions to where?


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## Slapcuber (Dec 19, 2013)

Team BLD for 3x3 and 4x4 lol 
and just 2x2 BLD


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## Atharv Goel (Jan 3, 2014)

i want 2BLD!!


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## BillyRain (Jan 3, 2014)

Atharv Goel said:


> i want 2BLD!!



2BLD would be a very fun event. Although records would be pretty crazy as people who can one look will not have to use BLD methods.


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## Erik (Jan 3, 2014)

TDM said:


> Well not quite shouting, but it could get quite loud. And some people could shout to be heard more. The videos of people doing TBLD don't usually have 10 other people trying to tell someone what to do at the same time.



It would be quite dumb to start shouting or speaking loudly.... 
Also: imho there are no restrictions on how to communicate. It would be funny if someone would develop a method where you just tap different body parts of the solver to indicate what he has to do ^^

Imho Team BLD is the only event that would really add a new dimension, instead of another twisty puzzle. It's fun, social and relatively easy to organize. Another positive thing is: there are a LOT of judges since one team of group A can judge 2 teams of group B ;-)


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## Michael Womack (Jan 3, 2014)

How about Sq-2 as the next event?


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## Randomno (Jan 3, 2014)

For an event 2x2 - 4x4/5x5 relay.

For a new puzzle one of the morph puzzles (e.g. pyramorphix, mastermorphix).


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## sneaklyfox (Jan 3, 2014)

Erik said:


> It would be funny if someone would develop a method where you just tap different body parts of the solver to indicate what he has to do ^^



This sounds neat. I want to try this sometime.


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## Stefan (Jan 3, 2014)

Erik said:


> It would be funny if someone would develop a method where you just tap different body parts of the solver to indicate what he has to do ^^



And then I want to see the Kai+Tim version of that <3


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## rj (Jan 3, 2014)

2bld and 2mbld


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## Tao Yu (Jan 3, 2014)

rj said:


> 2mbld



I think that would require wayyyyy too many 2x2 cubes.


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## Royiky (Jan 3, 2014)

If I was from Dayan moyu or witeden I would say 2x2 multi blind with an hour time limit.


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## Richy (Jan 3, 2014)

About how many 2x2s can be done multiblindfolded in an hour? Just curiosity... 100?


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## tseitsei (Jan 3, 2014)

Richy said:


> About how many 2x2 can be multiblindfolded in an hour? Just curiosity... 100?



well Maskow has 40/40 at normal MBLD and 2x2 has 2/5 of the pieces that 3x3 has so 40*2.5=100 seems quite close 

(Altough you can always orient 2x2 so that at least one piece is already solved...)


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## Royiky (Jan 3, 2014)

If Maskow knew cll eg1 eg2 and tcll then I think that he would be able to do around 200


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## TDM (Jan 3, 2014)

Royiky said:


> If Maskow knew cll eg1 eg2 and tcll then I think that he would be able to do around 200


He wouldn't speedBLD in MBLD. No one would.


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## WesD98 (Jan 3, 2014)

Maybe domino cuboids like the 2x3x3 or the 3x3x5?


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## Stefan (Jan 3, 2014)

TDM said:


> He wouldn't speedBLD in MBLD. No one would.



But you could use more efficient packing of information. Example: if you want to memorize permutations of the numbers 1 to 4, you can of course memorize it as four digits like "1432". But there are only 4!=24 possibilities, so you could instead encode the permutation as a number from 1 to 24. That's just one or two digits to memorize instead of four. Or one letter, if you prefer.

Similarly, you can memorize a 3x3 as a string of about 20 numbers from {1,...,24}. But 24^20 is about 4*10^27, about eight digits more than the number of actually possible cube states. So you're memorizing eight digits more than strictly necessary! You can for example break the cube state down into EP, CP, EO and CO and represent each of those with a number from 1 to 12!/2, 8!, 2^11 and 3^7, which would be 22 digits. Of course those numbers are still quite large, but for 2x2 some useful tighter packing might be possible.

Btw, Richard Carr worked on a method for solving 3x3 blindfolded in pretty much 4-5 algs: one alg each for EO, CP and CO and one or two for EP.


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## TDM (Jan 3, 2014)

Stefan said:


> But you could use more efficient packing of information. Example: if you want to memorize permutations of the numbers 1 to 4, you can of course memorize it as four digits like "1432". But there are only 4!=24 possibilities, so you could instead encode the permutation as a number from 1 to 24. That's just one or two digits to memorize instead of four. Or one letter, if you prefer.
> 
> Similarly, you can memorize a 3x3 as a string of about 20 numbers from {1,...,24}. But 24^20 is about 4*10^27, about eight digits more than the number of actually possible cube states. So you're memorizing eight digits more than strictly necessary! You can for example break the cube state down into EP, CP, EO and CO and represent each of those with a number from 1 to 12!/2, 8!, 2^11 and 3^7, which would be 22 digits. Of course those numbers are still quite large, but for 2x2 some useful tighter packing might be possible.
> 
> Btw, Richard Carr worked on a method for solving 3x3 blindfolded in pretty much 4-5 algs: one alg each for EO, CP and CO and one or two for EP.


That's an interesting idea. I can't see it happening for 200 cubes though


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## uberCuber (Jan 3, 2014)

TDM said:


> That's an interesting idea. I can't see it happening for 200 cubes though



I don't know. If you could develop a system to use, say, 2 letters to memorize the configuration of the pieces for your first face (not even bothering to memorize the solution, just the position) and then 2 more letters to memorize the CLL/EG case+AUF that will result when you solve that position, you'd be able to memorize a speedBLD solution more efficiently than a 3-cycle solution. Of course, you'd need a system to standardize your first-face approach so that for any position you memorize, you will always use the same solution, but since for EG you don't care about the permutation of the first face and don't need to distinguish the 4 pieces from each other, I would think this could be doable.


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## Stefan (Jan 3, 2014)

TDM said:


> That's an interesting idea. I can't see it happening for 200 cubes though



Not sure what you mean. The more information you have, the more it helps to pack it tightly (because memorization time is superlinear).

You could maybe come up with a method that solves like this:
0) Initial cube rotation during inspection, and memorize what to do in steps 1/2/3.
1) Apply one out of about 400 algs.
2) Cube rotation.
3) Apply one out of about 400 algs.

That would be three "images" to remember per cube, two of them having about 400 possibilities. I picked 400 because 400*24*400 is more than the number of 2x2 states:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt((7!*3^6)/24)

Alternatives: Three algs, no cube rotations could be three "images", each having about 160 possibilities. Or with two algs and no rotation, two "images", each having about 2000 possibilities (some memory sport people do use over 2000 different images so they could encode an entire 2x2 with just two images).


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## TDM (Jan 3, 2014)

I guess it could be done. I just don't know if there's a good way to remember ~800 numbers easily (got the number 800 from uberCuber's 4 numbers per cube). Letters would be easier to remember (I think. I don't really know, but I don't think anyone good at BLD uses numbers, and probably for a reason).
Stefan, I don't really understand your method. What do your two algs do? And why the rotation?


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## Stefan (Jan 3, 2014)

TDM said:


> Stefan, I don't really understand your method. What do your two algs do? And why the rotation?



I don't know what they do. That would have to be figured out. I just estimated the number of cases.
The rotation allows covering a larger number of cases.

It's similar to 3x3 last layer, which you can split into two algs plus a rotation or U turn between them. There, the two algs would be OLL+PLL or CLL+ELL or some other pair.



TDM said:


> I don't think anyone good at BLD uses numbers



Well:



Maskow said:


> Damn it, I didn't know that, maybe with letter pairs instead of my numbers and random images I will be faster xD
> I my opinion letter pairs aren't optimal at all. Maybe it's not bad but it isn't the only one way to be very fast.


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 4, 2014)

Erik said:


> Also: imho there are no restrictions on how to communicate. It would be funny if someone would develop a method where you just tap different body parts of the solver to indicate what he has to do ^^



It sounds like you are describing touchy feely team blind.
Daniel Sheppard and Rob Yau were the 1st to try it (that I know of) and named it.
Their UWR was taken from them by Alex Lau and Callum Goodyear at Cuthbert's in the summer.
[ForestGumpVoice]That's all I've got to say about that[/ForestGumpVoice]


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## RCTACameron (Jan 4, 2014)

cube-o-holic said:


> It sounds like you are describing touchy feely team blind.
> Daniel Sheppard and Rob Yau were the 1st to try it (that I know of) and named it.
> Their UWR was taken from them by Alex Lau and Callum Goodyear at Cuthbert's in the summer.
> [ForestGumpVoice]That's all I've got to say about that[/ForestGumpVoice]



http://youtu.be/0pdMHepAT-o?t=26s

Probably nowhere near UWR though


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## kcl (Jan 4, 2014)

Royiky said:


> If Maskow knew cll eg1 eg2 and tcll then I think that he would be able to do around 200



Uh name one person who has done Multi speedBLD


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## cubingboss (Jan 4, 2014)

What about team factory?


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## qaz (Jan 5, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Uh name one person who has done Multi speedBLD



Bryan Rusinque

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34233-2x2-4x4-SpeedBLD-Relay-(UWR-)


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## kcl (Jan 5, 2014)

qaz said:


> Bryan Rusinque
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34233-2x2-4x4-SpeedBLD-Relay-(UWR-)



Wow. Touché. But seriously, speedBLD for 200 2x2s? It just doesn't seem realistic.


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## qaz (Jan 5, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Wow. Touché. But seriously, speedBLD for 200 2x2s? It just doesn't seem realistic.


seeing as it took him 3+ days to memorize that as well, 200 2x2s might be possible in theory but I don't think anyone could do it in a reasonable amount of time.


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## kcl (Jan 5, 2014)

qaz said:


> seeing as it took him 3+ days to memorize that as well, 200 2x2s might be possible in theory but I don't think anyone could do it in a reasonable amount of time.



Yeah this was what I meant to say haha. Thank you.


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## Stefan (Jan 5, 2014)

qaz said:


> seeing as it took him 3+ days to memorize that as well, 200 2x2s might be possible in theory but I don't think anyone could do it in a reasonable amount of time.



What do you (or kclejeune) mean with _"reasonable amount of time"_?


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## kcl (Jan 5, 2014)

Stefan said:


> What do you (or kclejeune) mean with _"reasonable amount of time"_?



As in, I doubt anybody would spend a year [made up amount of time, not sure how long it would take to memorize 200 2x2 solutions] or whatever memorizing 200 2x2 solutions. Let's say they used EG. They have to onelook that solve. Then they have to onelook the next. And all the others. This person has to remember every single solution, in order, blindfolded. Memorizing that as you would speedBLD, would take a very very long time.


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## Stefan (Jan 5, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> As in, I doubt anybody would spend a year [made up amount of time, not sure how long it would take to memorize 200 2x2 solutions] or whatever memorizing 200 2x2 solutions. Let's say they used EG. They have to onelook that solve. Then they have to onelook the next. And all the others. This person has to remember every single solution, in order, blindfolded. Memorizing that as you would speedBLD, would take a very very long time.



I don't know enough about the current speedsolving methods, but I think it should be possible in a few hours and I'd find that a reasonable amount of time. Certainly nowhere near to a year at all whatsoever.


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## kcl (Jan 5, 2014)

Stefan said:


> I don't know enough about the current speedsolving methods, but I think it should be possible in a few hours and I'd find that a reasonable amount of time. Certainly nowhere near to a year at all whatsoever.



To memorize 
1. How to build the face
2. Which alg to do
3. AUF 
4. 199 more cubes
5. The order of all this

I'd be surprised if this could be done in two hours.


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## Stefan (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm doubtful about *two* hours, but then again, I said *few*. Don't know why you're talking about two now.


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## cubingboss (Jan 5, 2014)

I think they should add Team Factory.


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## kcl (Jan 5, 2014)

Stefan said:


> I'm doubtful about *two* hours, but then again, I said *few*. Don't know why you're talking about two now.



Misread. Sorry. Either way I interpret 'few' as 5 or less which is still next to impossible.


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## SolveThatCube (Jan 5, 2014)

How about Mirror Block as an event?


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## Stefan (Jan 5, 2014)

Let's go through this, then.



kclejeune said:


> To memorize
> 1. How to build the face
> 2. Which alg to do
> 3. AUF
> ...



Right off, you're talking about a face as first step. Not all methods have to do that. But ok, let's assume this method.

1. I imagine you can reduce that to initial cube rotation (don't need to remember) plus up to four <R,U,F> moves. Can be memorized in one image.
2. Can be memorized in one image.
3. Doesn't have to be memorized, you can arrange the cubes on the table in four groups corresponding to the four AUFs. If not allowed, it can be encoded together with step 2 in one image.
4. -
5. This just shows you're not familiar with memory techniques. I recommend you at least learn about the loci method. You pretty much get the order for free.

That would be two images for each cube, 400 images total. That can be memorized in half an hour. So I don't know why you're talking about memory when it's just 10% of the let's say five hours we're talking about. You should be focusing on the analysis/planning of solves if you want to convince anyone that it's not possible to do this.


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## RCTACameron (Jan 5, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Uh name one person who has done Multi speedBLD





qaz said:


> Bryan Rusinque
> 
> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34233-2x2-4x4-SpeedBLD-Relay-(UWR-)



Oh and also this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2eZuKRmu6E



Spoiler



That is nowhere near relevant to big (20+ cubes) 2x2 multiBLD though, as I didn't use any proper memory method, I just remembered the solutions I thought of for each cube.


----------



## kcl (Jan 5, 2014)

RCTACameron said:


> Oh and also this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2eZuKRmu6E
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol I know a few cubes is definitely possible as you showed there. But I mean you can be the best person in the world at one looking solves (you, Chris, Jay, etc), but I'm pretty sure you couldn't do it the way you did in that video with say 10 cubes, or 20 cubes, etc. however, that is impressive


----------



## tseitsei (Jan 5, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> To memorize
> 1. How to build the face
> 2. Which alg to do
> 3. AUF
> ...



I think that would be doable, maybe not in 2 hours but in a few hours...
One cube would only need 2 objects really. One for how to build a face and second for what alg to do + what auf.

For a face you could just just remember where the stickers of the face color are and have a preset order and method to build the face, so you dont have to remember the actual moves, just the places of 3 stickers. --> 3 letters

And for the restof the solve you have 127(IIRC, but something like that) algs for different cases and 4 different aufs --> 4*127 = 508 --> 2 letters

so 5 letters per cube

5*200 = 1000 letters for 200 cubes

Maskows 40/40 MBLD WR has 40cubes and average of 20 letters per cube for bld is normal so 40*20=800 letters in an hour...

So actually after thinking this through, I would say it's doable in 2 hours if someone would put enough practise in it


----------



## JackGibson (Jan 9, 2014)

but flower minx is a lower order megaminx, not higher


----------



## uberCuber (Jan 9, 2014)

tseitsei said:


> So actually after thinking this through, I would say it's doable in 2 hours if someone would put enough practise in it



Maybe even faster, considering that actual execution time for a 2x2 EG solve is barely a factor.


----------



## Logical101 (Jan 9, 2014)

crazy 3x3 would be awesome

I doubt that anyone would own 200 2x2's if you were to but 200 decent 2x2's it would cost you at least 2k$


----------



## Amir Nafisi (Jan 24, 2014)

*What should be the next official event?*

Hi, After added Skewb to official event a lots of cubers were interesting it and practicing it, In a months ago we faced broken Skewb records for several time.I think reason of it : easy to learn and actually and everyone easily can have sub 20.
I think puzzles that can solves & learn easy is a good choose for WCA events, I make a poll only for know cubers opinions. Participate in poll, please.


----------



## BoBoGuy (Jan 24, 2014)

Definitely 15puzl. Now more people are speedsliding and it is getting popular.

(inb4 ben1996123 gets WR single and avg)


----------



## Phillip1847 (Jan 24, 2014)

World *cubing* association.

Clock is an exception... haha.


----------



## patrickcuber (Jan 24, 2014)

8x8


----------



## uberCuber (Jan 24, 2014)

Phillip1847 said:


> World *cubing* association.
> 
> Clock is an exception... haha.



As are megaminx and pyraminx


----------



## Phillip1847 (Jan 24, 2014)

Of course, but cubing includes those.
I use the term to refer to all twisty puzzles.
As do most. The 15 puzzle is sortakindanotreally a cube anyway haha.


----------



## szalejot (Jan 24, 2014)

I think now we have so many legal competitions, that is hard to make tournament that covers all of them. Usually there are some missing.
In my opinion: we can cancel OH and feet and get something bigger instead (like gigaminx).


----------



## TinaIsAwesome (Apr 14, 2014)

CoenRox36 said:


> Why were Rubik's Magic and Master Magic removed and is there any chance if them coming back.


The magic events were removed because neither are real 'puzzles' and just require performing the same sequence of moves each and every time and it was kind of hard to regulate them. They most likely will not come back because Skewb kind of replaced them.


----------



## Bindedsa (Apr 14, 2014)

TinaIsAwesome said:


> The magic events were removed because neither are real 'puzzles' and just require performing the same sequence of moves each and every time and it was kind of hard to regulate them. They most likely will not come back because Skewb kind of replaced them.


I agree they won't come back, but I don't think Skewb replaced them, they were not puzzles, let alone cubes, and Skewb has been popular for a while.


----------



## TinaIsAwesome (Apr 14, 2014)

Bindedsa said:


> I agree they won't come back, but I don't think Skewb replaced them, they were not puzzles, let alone cubes, and Skewb has been popular for a while.


Well no, Skewb did not directly replace Magic/Master Magic


----------



## CDcuber (Apr 14, 2014)

They could add 8x8 and 9x9 ...but that might take too long


----------



## Ninja Storm (Apr 14, 2014)

CDcuber said:


> They could add 8x8 and 9x9 ...but that might take too long



The UWR for 8x8 is over 5:00... Even the fastest take a long time, regular people probably wouldn't even be able to get a time in, including me. 

For events to be added, they need to be relatively fast.


----------



## 10461394944000 (Apr 14, 2014)

CoenRox36 said:


> Why were Rubik's Magic and Master Magic removed and is there any chance if them coming back.



They aren't puzzles, they can't be judged accurately and they are stupid. no they won't come back.



CDcuber said:


> They could add 8x8 and 9x9 ...but that might take too long



They are the same as 6x6 and 7x7, but they waste more time, so no.



CoenRox36 said:


> Why don't they have 2x2 blindfolded in comps?



when you are fast at 2x2, 2x2 and 2x2 bld are pretty much the same thing.

some sort of bandaged cube might be interesting, but there aren't really any people who speedsolve them.


----------



## Costa (Apr 14, 2014)

Things to do in pairs like teamBLD or even a double oh ( i mean two people who solve the same cube)
I think the new events are going to be based on team events...


----------



## Frubix (Apr 14, 2014)

A cuboid should me nice to add


----------



## Rocky0701 (Apr 14, 2014)

Costa said:


> Things to do in pairs like teamBLD or even a double oh ( i mean two people who solve the same cube)
> I think the new events are going to be based on team events...


Double one hand could be very interesting, new algorithms would be developed and it could potentially be very fast.


----------



## Jokerman5656 (Apr 14, 2014)

Maybe instead of adding events we should remove some. I mean seriously, feet?


----------



## Coolster01 (Apr 14, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Double one hand could be very interesting, new algorithms would be developed and it could potentially be very fast.



One person could just do OH and fastest OH solvers would get WR with some random partner that doesn't matter.

And feet is cool, when it gets you on TV


----------



## Mikel (Apr 15, 2014)

I think some sort of cuboid would be the most reasonable addition in my opinion.


----------



## xchippy (Apr 15, 2014)

Fewest moves for 4x4 would be nice. It'd introduce some complicated block building methods for 4x4.


----------



## notfeliks (Apr 15, 2014)

xchippy said:


> Fewest moves for 4x4 would be nice. It'd introduce some complicated block building methods for 4x4.



The problem with this is the time. People sometimes fail to even do 3x3 in an hour, let alone 4x4. It would need a two or three hour limit to get decent records, and most comps couldn't handle this.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Apr 15, 2014)

Coolster01 said:


> One person could just do OH and fastest OH solvers would get WR with some random partner that doesn't matter.
> 
> And feet is cool, when it gets you on TV


Yeah, i thought about that, but i am sure that if two really good OH cubers worked together on it, they would probably be able to average faster than their OH alone. There could be a rule that each solver has to do like over 15 turns or something.


----------



## kcl (Apr 15, 2014)

I still feel like relays wouldn't be an awful idea. Sure, I might be faster than the next guy at 2x2 and 3x3, but he would still win if he is better at big cubes. It would require skill in multiple events.


----------



## megaminxwin (Apr 15, 2014)

15 Puzzle.


----------



## Deleted member 19792 (Apr 15, 2014)

Remove feet, add 15 puzzle..

Sammy vs Ben 2015puzzle.


----------



## Carrot (Apr 15, 2014)

strakerak said:


> Remove feet, add 15 puzzle..
> 
> Sammy vs Ben 2015puzzle.



I'm out of good physical 15 puzzles 
but sure! 15 puzzles are awesome!


----------



## CriticalCubing (Apr 15, 2014)

Shape shifting puzzles?
I like shape shifters


----------



## Blake4512 (Apr 15, 2014)

A 4-person 3x3 relay would be pretty cool


----------



## nikanika555full (Apr 15, 2014)

i think silver cube would be good


----------



## Michael Womack (Apr 15, 2014)

CriticalCubing said:


> Shape shifting puzzles?
> I like shape shifters



Something like the Morphinx puzzles?



nikanika555full said:


> i think silver cube would be good



what silver cube?


----------



## Ninja Storm (Apr 15, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> Something like the Morphinx puzzles?
> 
> 
> 
> what silver cube?



If I had to guess, I'd say he's talking about the Mirror Blocks.


----------



## CriticalCubing (Apr 15, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> *Something like the Morphinx puzzles?*
> 
> 
> 
> what silver cube?


Pretty Much!
Cuboids would be fun too. 
and the silver cuber would probably be mirror cube


----------



## Joey VOV (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't think it would be practical to add something like 4x4 OH or 2x2 multibld or duplicates of events we already have. Things like cuboids would be most practical but there are so many so it raises questions as to which one would be added. Also, other side events, maybe gear cube or rex cube would be cool. I personally would love to see Rubik's UFO added, but that probably wont happen.


----------



## IRNjuggle28 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think 2BLD would be a great thing to add, because it's way different than other BLD events in that it's essentially speedBLD. I also think that 3x3 speedBLD would be a great addition.



> when you are fast at 2x2, 2x2 and 2x2 bld are pretty much the same thing.



No, because you wouldn't get inspection time. It would be a race to see how fast you can 1 look.


----------



## guysensei1 (Apr 16, 2014)

IRNjuggle28 said:


> I think 2BLD would be a great thing to add, because it's way different than other BLD events in that it's essentially speedBLD. I also think that 3x3 speedBLD would be a great addition.
> 
> 
> 
> No, because you wouldn't get inspection time. It would be a race to see how fast you can 1 look.



Isn't speedBLD basically regular BLD? You aim to get the fastest times right?


----------



## DeeDubb (Apr 16, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Isn't speedBLD basically regular BLD? You aim to get the fastest times right?



No, SpeedBLD, inspection time isn't counted, so you can inspect for a LONG time to create an optimal solution, then SpeedBLD solve it. Here's 5BLD doing one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huyHb4BaHWw


----------



## Deleted member 19792 (Apr 16, 2014)

Carrot said:


> I'm out of good physical 15 puzzles
> but sure! 15 puzzles are awesome!



I had a metal knew that was lubed and it worked very well. But then again, Simone tried cheating :-(


----------



## Tim Major (Apr 16, 2014)

IRNjuggle28 said:


> I think 2BLD would be a great thing to add, because it's way different than other BLD events in that it's essentially speedBLD. I also think that 3x3 speedBLD would be a great addition.
> 
> 
> 
> No, because you wouldn't get inspection time. It would be a race to see how fast you can 1 look.




speed 3bld would take as long as FMC, or longer.

2bld, regardless of what you say, would be dominated by the best 2x2 solvers, and the WR single would be meaningless, and WR average would be even more luck based than 2x2.


----------



## FJT97 (Apr 16, 2014)

it would like to have cuboids like 3x3x5


----------



## guysensei1 (Apr 16, 2014)

Master skewb.
The skewb is like the 2x2 of corner turning cubes.


----------



## Marco Cuber (Apr 16, 2014)

8x8 mo3 would be cool too watch. But it would take quite long. Cuboids what be really cool too.


----------



## Michael Womack (Apr 16, 2014)

What about Fused cubes or Siamese cubes?


----------



## imvelox (Apr 16, 2014)

8x8!


----------



## cubeaddicted (Apr 16, 2014)

I would say cuboids.


----------



## Mikel (Apr 16, 2014)

I think an official beard competition would be best, actually.


----------



## uberCuber (Apr 16, 2014)

Tim Major said:


> speed 3bld would take as long as FMC, or longer.



I could see it getting quite a bit faster than an hour if people really practiced it, actually. But still too long to add as a new event, I think.


----------



## ~Adam~ (Apr 16, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Master skewb.
> The skewb is like the 2x2 of corner turning cubes.



The issue is with the hardware. Need a better MS before it could be considered IMO.


----------



## Terbo (Apr 16, 2014)

The Morphix series 2x2 through 7x7.


----------



## ~Adam~ (Apr 16, 2014)

*What puzzle should the WCA add next?*

2x3x3 or 3x3x5 cuboids is what I'd put my money on but don't feel that we need a new event at the moment.

Master Kilominx could be cool but the hardware sucks.


----------



## Rappan11 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think that they should add some type of cube oid.


----------



## IRNjuggle28 (Apr 17, 2014)

Tim Major said:


> speed 3bld would take as long as FMC, or longer.
> 
> 2bld, regardless of what you say, would be dominated by the best 2x2 solvers, and the WR single would be meaningless, and WR average would be even more luck based than 2x2.



I never said it wouldn't be dominated by the best 2x2 solvers. That's exactly what it would be. I don't really see that as a problem, though. And I don't see a problem with the scramble being a major factor. It takes skill to find WR 2x2 singles. There's luck in the scramble, but doing a 3-4 move solution in sub 1 takes skill. It also takes skill to find it really fast, which is what 2BLD would be. But you know that already.

I think 2BLD and speedBLD are much better ideas than 3x3 shape mods, or 8x8+, or custom puzzles, which is most of what's being discussed. Maybe now is just not the time for adding events. We already have feet and clock and other stupid stuff. We don't need more events that badly.

Maybe just Mikel's idea


> I think an official beard competition would be best, actually.


----------



## CHJ (Apr 17, 2014)

honestly none, WCA doesn't need any more, it is good as it is


----------



## AlexMaass (Apr 17, 2014)

CHJ said:


> honestly none, WCA doesn't need any more, it is good it is


Agreed, time is the problem with adding new events.
I think 2x2 MBLD would be good with a limit of 10 minutes, to keep it short and prevent Chris Olson or Maskow from walking in with tons of 2x2s.


----------



## Deleted member 19792 (Apr 17, 2014)

I'm still for 15 puzzle and removing feet.


----------



## penguinz7 (Apr 17, 2014)

Team factory MBLD petaminx with feet.


----------



## ChickenWrap (Apr 17, 2014)

Most competitions can't even have 7x7 because there isn't enough time. Why should we add more events?


----------



## Rocky0701 (Apr 17, 2014)

ChickenWrap said:


> Most competitions can't even have 7x7 because there isn't enough time. Why should we add more events?


Yeah, and most small comps won't even go up to 5x5 because of the same reason. Adding more events just complicates things, and they won't be in hardly any comps anyway.


----------



## Sajwo (Apr 17, 2014)

strakerak said:


> I'm still for 15 puzzle and removing feet.




are you serious...?


----------



## Dene (Apr 17, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> I still feel like relays wouldn't be an awful idea. It would require skill in multiple events.



You're right that is absolutely horrible. Why should anyone want to be good at multiple events?


----------



## bran (Apr 17, 2014)

Dene said:


> You're right that is absolutely horrible. Why should anyone want to be good at multiple events?



I think you're misinterpreting his post.


----------



## kunparekh18 (Apr 17, 2014)

bran said:


> I think you're misinterpreting his post.



I think you're misinterpreting his sarcasm.


----------



## uberCuber (Apr 17, 2014)

I think I'm misinterpreting this entire conversation


----------



## IRNjuggle28 (Apr 17, 2014)

Why do people even want 2x2 multi... ughhh I don't get it. Regular 2BLD, plz. Multi is dumb.


----------



## kcl (Apr 17, 2014)

Dene said:


> You're right that is absolutely horrible. Why should anyone want to be good at multiple events?



That wasn't my point. It would show who is overall the best at those events.


----------



## Deleted member 19792 (Apr 17, 2014)

Sajwo said:


> are you serious...?



Yes...


----------



## minstorm340 (Apr 17, 2014)

Some ideas: 
Disclaimer: These may be terrible ideas
A really big puzzle like a 10x10 or a large cuboid (Just because it would be an interesting event)
Ghost cube
Cuboids
A sticker mod like sudoku or maze cube
Another random shape mod
Rubiks 360
This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3edwEek_t6w&list=UUGJykI0BRfFV044deqERlxQ)
An event with multiple puzzles (like 2x2 to 5x5)
I would say skewb but its an event so YEAH I LOVE SKEWB


Edit: OH 2x2 would be interesting


----------



## Rocky0701 (Apr 18, 2014)

I think that 2x2 multiblind would be a very awesome event, but it would be very hard to have that amount of cubes. Considering that the 3x3 multiblind record is 41 (i think, but may be wrong) the record for 2x2 would be probably over 150, which would be insanely costly for people to buy that many cubes, and a pain to take them all to comps. I do however think that their could still be a 2x2 multiblind where you have to time how long it takes to do a certain number, such as 5 or 10.


----------



## Dene (Apr 18, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> That wasn't my point. It would show who is overall the best at those events.



Clarification: What would show who is overall the best? Having relays, or having only individual events?

I should just say, I care not for relays, I don't think I've ever even done one nor have I any interest in doing one. I just don't understand your implication that being competent at multiple events is not a good thing. Personally I love cubing, and love practising many different events.


----------



## kcl (Apr 18, 2014)

Dene said:


> Clarification: What would show who is overall the best? Having relays, or having only individual events?
> 
> I should just say, I care not for relays, I don't think I've ever even done one nor have I any interest in doing one. I just don't understand your implication that being competent at multiple events is not a good thing. Personally I love cubing, and love practising many different events.



Clarification: I feel like having relays (2-4,2-5, blah) would show who is the best overall because you need to be good at all of the events to get a good time. I did not mean to imply that being incompetent at certain events is good. I love Cubing too, but I don't enjoy practicing events that I dislike (aka big cubes)


----------



## uberCuber (Apr 18, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Clarification: I feel like having relays (2-4,2-5, blah) would show who is the best overall because you need to be good at all of the events to get a good time. I did not mean to imply that being incompetent at certain events is good. I love Cubing too, but I don't enjoy practicing events that I dislike (aka big cubes)



The thing is, you don't actually have to be really good at all of the events to get a really good time; you only have to be good at bigcubes. In a 2-5 relay, the difference between a 1.8-second 2x2 solve and a 5-second 2x2 solve is pretty insignificant to the total relay time. The difference between a 7-second 3x3 solve and a 13-second 3x3 solve is also pretty insignificant. The difference between "really good" and "decent" on 5x5 dwarfs those differences on the smallcubes.


----------



## Dene (Apr 18, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> Clarification: I feel like having relays (2-4,2-5, blah) would show who is the best overall because you need to be good at all of the events to get a good time. I did not mean to imply that being incompetent at certain events is good. I love Cubing too, but I don't enjoy practicing events that I dislike (aka big cubes)



Ok so you don't enjoy it, but you wouldn't have to do it. So why is it an awful idea?


----------



## guysensei1 (Apr 19, 2014)

Perhaps not new puzzles, but new timing methods.
Instead of just average of 5 in 3x3, we can also have best of (n), mean of (n), avg of 12s and so on. Same for 2x2 and other puzzles.


----------



## Deleted member 19792 (Apr 20, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> Perhaps not new puzzles, but new timing methods.
> Instead of just average of 5 in 3x3, we can also have best of (n), mean of (n), avg of 12s and so on. Same for 2x2 and other puzzles.



You can choose to do that with some events.. If you had a head to head in 3x3, it is a best of one. Meaning your first solve counts.


----------



## MattyBurne (Apr 20, 2014)

How about the newly mass-produced puzzles such as the Ghost cube ore Mixup cubes


----------



## Rocky0701 (Apr 20, 2014)

strakerak said:


> You can choose to do that with some events.. If you had a head to head in 3x3, it is a best of one. Meaning your first solve counts.


I definitely agree with having ao12s, but only with shorter events like 2x2, 3x3, pyraminx and skewb.
But i think that they would be seperate from the specific ao5 events, and then just have less rounsa for comps.


----------



## ChickenWrap (Apr 20, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> I definitely agree with having ao12s, but only with shorter events like 2x2, 3x3, pyraminx and skewb.
> But i think that they would be seperate from the specific ao5 events, and then just have less rounsa for comps.



Do you realize how long an Ao12 would take? Especially for 3x3 where you have sometimes 40+ competitors, that would be COMPLETELY ridiculous and take forever.


----------



## neregekaj (Apr 20, 2014)

I really wanted someone to say OH Skewb. I just tried it and I think I'm going to start a foundation for protecting tables from getting raped.


----------



## Mikel (Apr 20, 2014)

neregekaj said:


> I really wanted someone to say OH Skewb. I just tried it and I think I'm going to start a foundation for protecting tables from getting raped.



I did some OH skewb when my wrist was broken. You can start a foundation, but please don't include skewb. It's sooo much easier to do OH skewb with the table.


----------



## kcl (Apr 20, 2014)

*What puzzle should the WCA add next?*

23.78 OH skewb ao5, 18.33 single 
Would be easy sub 5 2h lmao
I will get this sub 10


----------



## maps600 (Apr 20, 2014)

I'd say the gigaminx


----------



## ~Adam~ (Apr 20, 2014)

maps600 said:


> I'd say the gigaminx



Expensive and take more than twice as long to solve as a 7x7.


----------



## Bindedsa (Apr 20, 2014)

Mikel said:


> I did some OH skewb when my wrist was broken. You can start a foundation, but please don't include skewb. It's sooo much easier to do OH skewb with the table.



In hand, It's basically impossible for me. Do you lift the skewb at all other then rotations?


----------



## Rocky0701 (Apr 20, 2014)

ChickenWrap said:


> Do you realize how long an Ao12 would take? Especially for 3x3 where you have sometimes 40+ competitors, that would be COMPLETELY ridiculous and take forever.


Yeah, but events like multiBLD, 6x6 and 7x7 take long too. Most competitions dont have those events so the ao12 could just be optional. It would mostly just be the big and long comps that could do it.


----------



## TDM (Apr 20, 2014)

Rocky0701 said:


> Yeah, but events like multiBLD, 6x6 and 7x7 take long too.


"We already have events that take a long time, so why not add even more?"


----------



## bobthegiraffemonkey (Apr 20, 2014)

I don't think that we should add any new events, but I'll put my opinion in anyway for what I would add. I've seen multi 2BLD being mentioned, but I think with far too large time limits. I would have a very short time limit to make it a very different event and to reduce the hardware issue. 1 minute sound good? I'm genuinely a little curious about what could be achieved (but only a little bit).


----------



## DuffyEdge (Apr 20, 2014)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> 1 minute sound good? I'm genuinely a little curious about what could be achieved (but only a little bit).



I would say 10 is the upper limit


----------



## ~Adam~ (Apr 20, 2014)

How about stackmatted 2x2 MBLD? 10 min limit.


----------



## JakeTheCuber (Apr 20, 2014)

A little interesting here.
OH 2x one cube in each hand.
Also possibly only U face turns, the cube would stay on the table when the U face is turning. This making it harder for people to execute algs. Just an Idea


----------



## Antonie faz fan (Apr 21, 2014)

Team BLD!


----------



## Sajwo (Apr 21, 2014)

This thread is so silly...


----------



## Tim Major (Apr 21, 2014)

Sajwo said:


> This thread is so silly...



I reported it a few days ago to get it closed but I guess it was deemed... constructive? I don't see how it could be but at least I tried.


----------



## Carrot (Apr 21, 2014)

Sajwo said:


> are you serious...?



yes we are serious


----------



## Nestor (Apr 21, 2014)

As many have stated already:

3x3x2 (domino). Different from current official puzzles, quick solution and "speedable".


----------



## Michael Womack (Apr 21, 2014)

To sum up this thread if a new puzzle will be added it will be determined by popularity, scrambles, and Solve speed as in that a majority of the solvers can do quickly so that round 1 of that event won't take up most of the day. Also new rules will be added for that new event. So here is a good example of what I mean is that if we add the mirror cube then we can just use the 3x3 scrambles and it won't take up much time to complete round 1. The rules for that event would be something like the mirror cubes with all of the stickers are allowed or only the 6 colored versions are allowed. Also here's another thing if we add something like the Helicopter cube then we would need some new notations and it would be very tricky to learn so then the scramblers would have a very hard time understanding it.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Apr 22, 2014)

TDM said:


> "We already have events that take a long time, so why not add even more?"


Yeah, you guys are right.


----------



## guinepigs rock (Apr 22, 2014)

Mirror blocks.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Apr 22, 2014)

guinepigs rock said:


> Mirror blocks.


(3x3 based on shapes not colors)


----------



## ComputerGuy365 (Jun 24, 2014)

GEAR CUBE!!!!!


----------



## tseitsei (Jun 24, 2014)

Why should WCA add any new puzzles?


----------



## Antonie faz fan (Jun 24, 2014)

tseitsei said:


> Why should WCA add any new puzzles?



at a sertain point the events we have will get boring.


----------



## tseitsei (Jun 24, 2014)

Antonie faz fan said:


> at a sertain point the events we have will get boring.



I disagree. Track&field or swimming don't add new events every few years because the existing ones get boring. And footballdoesn't change its rules after every world cup because it gets boring. If you get bored to a sport you should start some other sport you find more enjoyable.

Just adding new events can't be done because after a while we would have too many events and only a few competitions in the wholeworld a year would hold some of them. And that decreases the value of having an NR/CR/WR which I think is bad.

Also I don't like the idea of replacing old events with new ones. Because some people practise really hard to get a NR/CR/WR and then suddenly someone says "Oh, sorry but this isn't an event anymore so now you must practise this new event another 10000 hours to be world class at it" Doesn't seem fair to me.

We need to choose a good set of events that represent the different aspects of solving these puzzles we have and go with that. And ONLY WITH GOOD REASONS add or remove puzzles (an example of a good reason IMO was removing magics, because they weren't really a puzzle at all. Good reason IS NOT that someone or (even many) people find the event boring).


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## Michael Womack (Jun 24, 2014)

Antonie faz fan said:


> at a sertain point the events we have will get boring.



or when we are all getting so fast at an event it would take only 10 min to get through round one of 10,000 people.


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## Petro Leum (Jun 24, 2014)

add mirror blocks next.


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## Tempus (Jun 24, 2014)

What event should the WCA add next? One word: Stickerless. If they think that it provides an advantage, let them put their money where their mouth is and make a stickerless division. Then we can compare the stats for each division, and we'll see the truth once and for all. If, after a year or two, the best times for both divisions prove to be the same, then fold stickerless into the main division and finally end this foolishness.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Jun 24, 2014)

Then you have to add an event called 1.5mm tiles. And then you have to add an event called Textured cubes. Then you have to add an event called cubes with overlapping logos. Maybe we should merge all of that into one division!


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## IRNjuggle28 (Jun 24, 2014)

Tempus said:


> What event should the WCA add next? One word: Stickerless. If they think that it provides an advantage, let them put their money where their mouth is and make a stickerless division. Then we can compare the stats for each division, and we'll see the truth once and for all. If, after a year or two, the best times for both divisions prove to be the same, then fold stickerless into the main division and finally end this foolishness.



Stickerless cubes are likely to become legal again. Read this thread. http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...s-quot-Anything-Goes-quot-(WCA-Puzzle-Policy)


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## WinterCub3r (Jun 24, 2014)

one hand megaminx


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## 10461394944000 (Jun 24, 2014)

Will The 15 X 15 Be Added As An Event When It Comes Out ???????? Omg It Should Be !!!!!! I Hope It Is !!!!!!


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## Cubeologist (Jun 25, 2014)

Is 2-4 relay an official event? If not it seems like it should be.


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## Coolster01 (Jun 25, 2014)

dsbias said:


> Is 2-4 relay an official event? If not it seems like it should be.



No. Why it shouldn't:

I feel like this has been said a billion times already, but THE FASTER 4X4 SOLVERS WILL BE THE FASTEST AT 2-4 RELAY! 4x4 takes by far the most amount of time, therefore rankings in 2-4 will be quite darn similar to 4x4.

I really don't want any more events. As mentioned earlier, I don't want NR/CR/WRs to lose there meaning because so many will have them.


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## DeeDubb (Jun 25, 2014)

I think a cool shapeshifter like Ghost Cube would be awesome. It's times are a good range for WCA events. Youtube records are around 1:30.


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## Fawn (Jun 25, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> I think a cool shapeshifter like Ghost Cube would be awesome. It's times are a good range for WCA events. Youtube records are around 1:30.



I love shapemods so this would totally influence me to buy more. I think a Fisher Cube would make for an intersting event. Although, it is very similar to 3x3 when it comes to solutions.


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## 3LEVAS3 (Jun 25, 2014)

jokerman5656 said:


> Maybe instead of adding events we should remove some. I mean seriously, feet?



It's a bit embarrassing feet is even an event at the moment...


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## rj (Jul 1, 2014)

3LEVAS3 said:


> It's a bit embarrassing feet is even an event at the moment...


Agreed. If we add anything, I think it should be 4x4 FMC.


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## guysensei1 (Jul 1, 2014)

rj said:


> Agreed. If we add anything, I think it should be 4x4 FMC.



That would be a lovely event! 2x2 FMC would be cool too, but I'm guessing it won't take too long for WRs to be made from lolscrambles.


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## Michael Womack (Jul 1, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> That would be a lovely event! 2x2 FMC would be cool too, but I'm guessing it won't take too long for WRs to be made from lolscrambles.



Also what about 5x5 FMC?


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## Torch (Jul 1, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> That would be a lovely event! 2x2 FMC would be cool too, but I'm guessing it won't take too long for WRs to be made from lolscrambles.



How about 2x2 FMC as average of 5 with 15 minutes to do all 5 scrambles?


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## Dane man (Jul 1, 2014)

We could have pyraminx FMC. That's probably the closest we can get to the incredible challenge of solving a 1x1 cube. 

But in all seriousness, I think there are a few puzzles that need more consideration. To list a few: the Helicopter Cube, Puck (also Hungarian), Pyramorphix, 15 puzzle (imagine puzzle makers designing speed 15 puzzles), etc.

Also, on the topic of foot cubes, I think it was added as more of joke competition for comedic relief than a serious competition. It can stay.


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## Michael Womack (Jul 1, 2014)

Dane man said:


> We could have pyraminx FMC. That's probably the closest we can get to the incredible challenge of solving a 1x1 cube.
> 
> But in all seriousness, I think there are a few puzzles that need more consideration. To list a few: the Helicopter Cube, Puck (also Hungarian), Pyramorphix, 15 puzzle (imagine puzzle makers designing speed 15 puzzles), etc.
> 
> Also, on the topic of foot cubes, I think it was added as more of joke competition for comedic relief than a serious competition. It can stay.



Well look at this if we added Pucks to be an event then which ones will be allowed http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/pdb-search.cgi?act=sec&key=23 also nowadays its very hard to find a puck puzzle unless you want to spend allot of money on one from ebay.


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## JunA266 (Jul 1, 2014)

Gear Cubes, like the Gear Shift.


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## TDM (Jul 1, 2014)

rj said:


> Agreed. If we add anything, I think it should be 4x4 FMC.


It would not only be very hard to check your solutions, but you would also have the problem of time: one hour is not going to be enough to get a good solution. People run out of time in 3x3 FMC.


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## PJKCuber (Jul 1, 2014)

WCA should add 2BLD IMO. and if it is rational 6BLD.


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## TDM (Jul 1, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> and if it is rational 6BLD.


We've only recently had a hundredth official 5BLD success! So few people can do 6BLD, and imo it would not be worth adding it for just 20 or so people.


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## RjFx2 (Jul 1, 2014)

I would love 15 puzzle being added. Speed 15 puzzles would be funny.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Jul 2, 2014)

I would gogo NAR, and if Ben doesnt compete gogo WR


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## maps600 (Jul 2, 2014)

I say add the Gigaminx. it would be the 5x5 of the Megaminx. The only problem is that it takes a really long time to solve


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## kprox1994 (Jul 2, 2014)

The only puzzle I feel like would be reasonable would be the 2x2x3. It's something different and can be solved fast, most of the other puzzles are hard to speedsolve since they either take too long or are hard to finger-trick. 3x3 shape mods would be pointless. I also think Team BLD would be cool to add more of a team aspect to cubing. Other than those 2 events I don't think anything else should be added.


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## 1LastSolve (Jul 11, 2014)

2x2 - 5x5 Relay


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jul 11, 2014)

fisher cube


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## BrianJ (Jul 11, 2014)

Some things may seem cool to be added to the WCA, but we already have enough events. Also, skewb was just added this year.


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## Michael Womack (Jul 11, 2014)

CubeCube said:


> Some things may seem cool to be added to the WCA, but we already have enough events. Also, skewb was just added this year.



I agree.


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## CiaranBeahan (Jul 11, 2014)

1LastSolve said:


> 2x2 - 5x5 Relay



I wouldn't say exactly 2-5, but your right in a way, some kind of relay would be nice to see.


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## goodatthis (Jul 11, 2014)

PJKCuber said:


> WCA should add 2BLD IMO. and if it is rational 6BLD.



Adding 2BLD is pointless because if you can't 1-look 2x2 solves, then you have to use an actual blindfolded method and that is WAYY slower than 1-looking 2x2 solves. It would only appeal to 2x2 solvers because it's extremely likely that the 2x2 WR holder would get the WR. In fact, he does.
http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/List_of_UWR


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## DGCubes (Jul 11, 2014)

Team BLD would be awesome, and 3x3x5 would really add a new dimension to the puzzles we currently have. The 3x3x5 is one of my favorite non-WCA puzzles, because of the awesome shapeshifting and its overall enjoyability to solve.

Also, I know this might not belong on this thread, but I would like it if Clock was removed. It is a cool puzzle, but it is in no way a twisty puzzle.


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## Coolster01 (Jul 11, 2014)

DGCubes said:


> Team BLD would be awesome, and 3x3x5 would really add a new dimension to the puzzles we currently have. The 3x3x5 is one of my favorite non-WCA puzzles, because of the awesome shapeshifting and its overall enjoyability to solve.
> 
> Also, I know this might not belong on this thread, but I would like it if Clock was removed. It is a cool puzzle, but it is in no way a twisty puzzle.



I just feel like Team BLD is so hard to judge. People could peak through the blindfold because the judge can't have a piece of paper (the caller has to see ). I really like team BLD though. Maybe something that I like called "back to back Team BLD". It's like skype team BLD, where each solver has a cube, but they are back to back so the caller can't see the other cube. It doesn't even have to be back to back (that would be hard to hear the caller), because a paper would be held by the judge anyway, so the caller couldn't see the other cube. I really like this more because getting a success is much harder (meaning that the format would be exact same as BLD).

As for 3x3x5, that's actually a really nice idea! Maybe. I don't like 3x3x4 personally because no shapeshifting, so I have to agree. 

Clock is a non-spectator event and it also is, as you said, not really a twisty puzzle. I don't know where I stand with that though, because many specialize in clock alone. Maybe.


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## nosaJ4297 (Jul 14, 2014)

I've always loved the curvy copter, and it can definitely be solved fast enough to be interesting. Maybe even two different events, one with jumbling, one without


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## henrysavich (Jul 18, 2014)

TDM said:


> It would not only be very hard to check your solutions, but you would also have the problem of time: one hour is not going to be enough to get a good solution. People run out of time in 3x3 FMC.



Time could be extended, but I don't think it needs to be. There would be more of a time crunch, but the result would probably be a different method for 4x4 FMC, that doesn't utilize insertions and other time consuming techniques. Also I would much rather have 4x4 FMC than 3x3 FMC, you end up getting less ties with singles. I don't exactly understand why it would be hard to check a solution, do you mean the judges or competitiors?


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## tux1230 (Jul 29, 2014)

Sajwo said:


> remove clock and feet, add mirror blocks and vertex turning octahedron


They shouldnt Remove Either feet or clock. Some people take these events seriously. Like learning tricks for just that event. Like i do for feet solving.


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## pistelli (Aug 10, 2014)

Mirror blocks blind is incredibly fun. I always thought it would be nice to have that added. A purely tactile puzzle. Blindfolded even during inspection.


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## Tempus (Aug 10, 2014)

pistelli said:


> Mirror blocks blind is incredibly fun. I always thought it would be nice to have that added. A purely tactile puzzle. Blindfolded even during inspection.


I second this opinion. To be clear, there would be _no visual inspection_. Inspection and solving would _both_ be done blindfolded.


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## voidcuber (Sep 7, 2014)

2bld, 2oh, more 2x2 stuff


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## Deleted member 19792 (Sep 7, 2014)

15 puzzle because easy to judge, watch, scramble, and it is fun.

There ARE GOOD 15 puzzles out there, and you can make some of them even better.


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## IRNjuggle28 (Sep 7, 2014)

SpeedBLD. Comps could have FMC and SpeedBLD simultaneously, and the competitors could pick which one they wanted to do. 

Judging could be an issue, as you have to watch the person for the entire hour to make sure they don't turn the cube at all, but that could be dealt with. You could have one judge in a room with every single speedBLD competitor, and it would be easy to see/hear if someone was turning the cube.


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## mkarthick (Sep 7, 2014)

The mastermorphix for sure. Its a great puzzle, and is harder than the pyraminx, so the WR will be something decent like 20-30 sec.


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## CuberM (Sep 14, 2014)

I actually think 6BLD would be cool to see, though it's a pretty big step up from 5BLD.


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## Mikel (Sep 14, 2014)

CuberM said:


> I actually think 6BLD would be cool to see, though it's a pretty big step up from 5BLD.



It's really not that big of a step-up from 5x5 BLD. I jumped from doing 5x5 BLD to 7x7 BLD and it didn't feel like that much. I do not see 6x6 BLD ever becoming official because it won't gain popularity. The current 6x6 hardware is atrocious. I wouldn't even want to compete until something better comes out. I can handle pops in 6x6 speedsolves, but they really suck during BLD solves.


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## JasonDL13 (Sep 14, 2014)

TeamBLD. Some other stuff include 2BLD, SpeedBLD.

And maybe 2x2OH.


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## Cale S (Sep 14, 2014)

A problem with 2BLD would be holding the paper in front of someone who 1-looks a speedsolve. They would only be solving for a few seconds at most, so the judge wouldn't even get a chance to put the paper in front of them to prevent cheating. Somebody could cheat by looking under the blindfold and doing a normal 2x2 solve before the judge could put the paper up, then say that they were able to 1-look it.

I think a good puzzle to consider adding would be the mirror blocks (or mirror cube, bump cube, whatever it's called), because it would add an entirely different type of puzzle based on shapes rather than colors. Instead of having the scrambling orientation defined by the U and F faces, you could have the thinnest layer on top, and the smallest row of pieces on the top face at UF.


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## tseitsei (Sep 14, 2014)

Cale S said:


> I think a good puzzle to consider adding would be the mirror blocks (or mirror cube, bump cube, whatever it's called), because it would add an entirely different type of puzzle based on shapes rather than colors. Instead of having the scrambling orientation defined by the U and F faces, you could have the thinnest layer on top, and the smallest row of pieces on the top face at UF.



Mirror blocks is just another 3x3...


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## Ollie (Sep 14, 2014)

If someone with a good knowledge of the regulations and experience doing team BLD could come up with some standardized rules for an official proposal then that'd be cool. Otherwise the event list is fine.


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## Ranzha (Sep 14, 2014)

IRNjuggle28 said:


> Judging could be an issue, as you have to watch the person for the entire hour to make sure they don't turn the cube at all, but that could be dealt with. You could have one judge in a room with every single speedBLD competitor, and it would be easy to see/hear if someone was turning the cube.



Or you could just not allow competitors to bring turnable cubes in.
It's very easy to turn a cube without the cube making a distinct noise while turning.

Also, I don't know if there's been a proposed system for judging SpeedBLD once the time is up. To create truly fair conditions, each solver would have to go at the same time. At a large enough competition, it will be incredibly difficult to staff this. The only situation I can foresee is staggered starting times, off by a few minutes in "heats". Once the first heat finishes the memorisation phase, staff judge the timed phase, and record results. Shortly afterward, the second heat finishes the memo phase and gets judged for the timed phase, et al. (Lucas?)



Ollie said:


> If someone with a good knowledge of the regulations and experience doing team BLD could come up with some standardized rules for an official proposal then that'd be cool. Otherwise the event list is fine.



Hi


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## Stefan (Sep 14, 2014)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> Also, I don't know if there's been a proposed system for judging SpeedBLD once the time is up. To create truly fair conditions, each solver would have to go at the same time.



Why, what's unfair about starting at different times?


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## Laura O (Sep 14, 2014)

Ollie said:


> If someone with a good knowledge of the regulations and experience doing team BLD could come up with some standardized rules for an official proposal then that'd be cool. Otherwise the event list is fine.



Such a proposal has been written some time ago (see http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?25818-The-Team-BLD-discussion-thread!). I didn't look into detail, but I don't think it's much work to adapt this for the current regulations.

Although I love TeamBLD and it would be cool to have it as an official event, I don't think it makes sense to keep records for it. It depends a lot on the skills of your partner, so you actually could "hire" a good caller or executer to get good results. I don't think there is a fair and reasonable way to rank the results.


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## Stefan (Sep 14, 2014)

Laura O said:


> Although I love TeamBLD and it would be cool to have it as an official event, I don't think it makes sense to keep records for it. It depends a lot on the skills of your partner, so you actually could "hire" a good caller or executer to get good results. I don't think there is a fair and reasonable way to rank the results.



We could list just people's best result (like we do in every other event). So if A+B are the #1, then others wouldn't get a ranking by hiring A or B (unless they beat the result of A+B). Would also prevent the same few great people clogging the ranking (my original reason for the idea).

And if you do want to allow duplicate mentions, there are the "100 Results" and "1000 Results" options (again like we do in every other event).


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## Ranzha (Sep 14, 2014)

Stefan said:


> Why, what's unfair about starting at different times?



Retention loss over time.


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## Hssandwich (Sep 14, 2014)

2BLD would be fun, also 2MultiBLD.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Sep 14, 2014)

15 Puzzle because regulations on judging/penalties and all can be simple to write up.


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## Ranzha (Sep 14, 2014)

strakerak said:


> 15 Puzzle because regulations on judging/penalties and all can be simple to write up.



We'd need a scrambler, preferrably random-state.

@everyone who's suggesting other 2x2 events: No.


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## DrKorbin (Sep 14, 2014)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> We'd need a scrambler, preferrably random-state.



Easy.


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## Stefan (Sep 14, 2014)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> Retention loss over time.



Are you thinking about a forced significant pause between planning and execution? Why would we have that? Just start when you're ready to go, same as in every other event.

Also, since you're doing it all in your head, a break would allow you to repeat exactly that over and over again, probably *improving* retention.



Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> @everyone who's suggesting other 2x2 events: No.



2x2 marathon (42 cubes).


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## Ranzha (Sep 14, 2014)

Stefan said:


> Are you thinking about a forced significant pause between planning and execution? Why would we have that? Just start when you're ready to go, same as in every other event.
> 
> Also, since you're doing it all in your head, a break would allow you to repeat exactly that over and over again, probably *improving* retention.



I'm talking about an unforced significant pause. Starting when you're ready to go is difficult to group judge if enough competitors want to go at the same time. (It also makes my original suggestion invalid.)
I suppose the retention loss argument can only really be used if it becomes an issue when put in practice.



> 2x2 marathon (42 cubes).



:fp


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## henrysavich (Sep 14, 2014)

strakerak said:


> 15 Puzzle because regulations on judging/penalties and all can be simple to write up.



I'd like to see 15 puzzle as well, but I think the biggest issue in regulating would be the solved state, because not everywhere uses the arabic numeral system.

The WCA would have to make an official list of all the allowed numeral systems, which could get extensive if we want to be really inclusive. And if that regulation is put in place, judges at international competitions would have to know at least the most common ones.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Sep 14, 2014)

henrysavich said:


> I'd like to see 15 puzzle as well, but I think the biggest issue in regulating would be the solved state, because not everywhere uses the arabic numeral system.
> 
> The WCA would have to make an official list of all the allowed numeral systems, which could get extensive if we want to be really inclusive. And if that regulation is put in place, judges at international competitions would have to know at least the most common ones.



Anything that presents a visual representation of the numbers might work, but most 15 puzzles everywhere use the solved state anyway [Mainly because that is how it comes]



Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> We'd need a scrambler, preferrably random-state.
> 
> @everyone who's suggesting other 2x2 events: No.




It would be easy, but scrambling should not be in notation, but instead in Solve-To-Scrambled state. That is what Ben and I normally do when using a physical 15 puzzle.


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## AvGalen (Sep 14, 2014)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> Or you could just not allow competitors to bring turnable cubes in.
> It's very easy to turn a cube without the cube making a distinct noise while turning.
> 
> Also, I don't know if there's been a proposed system for judging SpeedBLD once the time is up. To create truly fair conditions, each solver would have to go at the same time. At a large enough competition, it will be incredibly difficult to staff this. The only situation I can foresee is staggered starting times, off by a few minutes in "heats". Once the first heat finishes the memorisation phase, staff judge the timed phase, and record results. Shortly afterward, the second heat finishes the memo phase and gets judged for the timed phase, et al. (Lucas?)
> ...


Before we start discussing problems about having too many speedblinders...could we maybe have a discussion first if there would currently be any competition scheduled that would have > 3 people present that can even do it?

Wild idea:
Why don't we try 5-in-a-row or 12-in-a-row for 3x3x3 once?
Benefits: Effects of single solves influencing the average is greatly reduced. inspection becomes a strategy. Having multiple people doing a race like this in a final is more exciting to watch.
Negatives: Doesn't match current results, requires competitors to have multiple cubes


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## Stefan (Sep 14, 2014)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> I'm talking about an unforced significant pause. Starting when you're ready to go is difficult to group judge if enough competitors want to go at the same time. (It also makes my original suggestion invalid.)



If it's unforced, i.e., if the cuber could start but chooses to pause (at least that's how I meant it), then it's their own fault. Anyway, I can't imagine this being a problem, as probably few people would try it. Especially if we have a time limit of 10-20 minutes (I think that was the range discussed last time I saw it).


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## Randomno (Sep 14, 2014)

Randomno said:


> For an event 2x2 - 4x4/5x5 relay.
> 
> For a new puzzle one of the morph puzzles (e.g. pyramorphix, mastermorphix).



Wasn't sure if I had posted here...

I guess the morph ones sounds good, but I think 3x3x2 might be more worth adding.


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## MikamiHero (Sep 15, 2014)

I really like the Siamese Cube. I still have the one I made back in 2008.

They're quite fun puzzles to solve.


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## TMOY (Sep 15, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> Before we start discussing problems about having too many speedblinders...could we maybe have a discussion first if there would currently be any competition scheduled that would have > 3 people present that can even do it?


Depends on your definition of "can do it". Everybody who can do a blindsolve can compete in speedblind by just doing a regular BLD and timing the execution.


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## AvGalen (Sep 15, 2014)

TMOY said:


> Depends on your definition of "can do it". Everybody who can do a blindsolve can compete in speedblind by just doing a regular BLD and timing the execution.


Good point! With the execution speed of some people now I don't think speedblinders will be much faster than normal blinders. The normal blinders will only use 15 seconds to "inspect" while the speedblinders will need "a dozen minutes" only to be a few seconds faster at most. This basically makes speedblind even more of a non-event in my eyes


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## MennoniteCuber1 (Sep 15, 2014)

3x3x4 and other rectangular puzzles


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## Jimmy Liu (Sep 15, 2014)

4x4 fewest moves and 4x4 one-handed please!!!!!!!!!


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## Ranzha (Sep 15, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> Wild idea:
> Why don't we try 5-in-a-row or 12-in-a-row for 3x3x3 once?
> Benefits: Effects of single solves influencing the average is greatly reduced. inspection becomes a strategy. Having multiple people doing a race like this in a final is more exciting to watch.
> Negatives: Doesn't match current results, requires competitors to have multiple cubes



Negatives: Much higher rate of potentially misplacing cubes, requires a lot more scrambling time (for 12-in-a-row). Relays could become the most difficult kind of events to hold simply because of handling all the puzzles, not to mention that scrambling tables might have to grow


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## henrysavich (Sep 15, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> Good point! With the execution speed of some people now I don't think speedblinders will be much faster than normal blinders. The normal blinders will only use 15 seconds to "inspect" while the speedblinders will need "a dozen minutes" only to be a few seconds faster at most. This basically makes speedblind even more of a non-event in my eyes



i think that the SpeedBLD'ers will be really good Blind Solver. I think what would happen if the event was added is the most popular method would be 2-3 premoves followed by a normal BLD solve with an exceptionally lucky scramble. Also, not every Blind solver has the same memo:execution ratio. So the fastest blind solver doesn't necessarily have the fastest execution.

I would like to see speedBLD as an event, especially for new BLD'ers who spend more memo time than execution.


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## tseitsei (Sep 15, 2014)

SpeedBLD doesn't really bring anything new to solving. You just have to do the really boring/long memorizing stage and then solve with any speedsolving method you choose. And the winner will be anyone decent enough in tracking pieces (fridrich solve for example is quite easy to do by tracking one piece at the time. It just takes a while) and just spamming crazy TPS in execution.

So the event would basically be just about TPS because any decent cuber can come up with a speedsolving solution if given enough time. And I think there should be 2 sides to every speedsolving event: 1. how fast is your mind and 2. how fast are your hands.

Even for 2x2 it takes so much skill to 1-look solves most of the time that not many people can do it so there still is this "how fast is your mind"-element involved. But I think that in SpeedBLD there would be (almost) only "how fast your hands are"-element. Especially when considering better than average cubers competing in the event.



Jimmy Liu said:


> 4x4 fewest moves and 4x4 one-handed please!!!!!!!!!



LOL. 4x4 fewest moves would take too long time... One hour isn't that much even for 3x3FMC so 4x4 would need maybe 3 hours and at least 2 hours.
I have sometimes done 4x4FMC for fun tough (without time limit) and it's quite interesting. Just not very good idea to make it official (for the same reason I think 6&7bld must remain unofficial. Interesting but too time consuming).



> i think that the SpeedBLD'ers will be really good Blind Solver. *1.I think what would happen if the event was added is the most popular method would be 2-3 premoves followed by a normal BLD solve with an exceptionally lucky scramble.* Also, not every Blind solver has the same memo:execution ratio. So the fastest blind solver doesn't necessarily have the fastest execution.
> 
> *2.I would like to see speedBLD as an event, especially for new BLD'ers who spend more memo time than execution.*



1. NO. Just no. It would be much faster to just plan a speedsolve solution than use BLD method. Not even the fastest BLD solvers have sub-10 execution speeds and MANY 3x3 "eyes-open solvers" have easily achieved sub-10. Also "eyes-open solvers" should be even faster in speedBLD because no lookahead is needed because the whole solution is memorized.

2. I don't understand the point of this. Why couldn't new BLD'ers just do normal BLD even if their memo takes longer?


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## LucidCuber (Sep 16, 2014)

The only one's I think should MAYBE be added are the megaminx variants (Kilomix, Gigaminx) but even then I think things are fine for now.


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## cubingallday (Sep 16, 2014)

I don't know if this idea is already posted, but I find Skewb OH pretty fun.


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## Joey VOV (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm so tired of hearing sill suggestions like "2x2 OH, 4x4 FMC" and common variants of the standard NxNxN puzzles. If we add anything else, which right now, I do not think we should, it should be completely different than what we see in the current WCA puzzles. No 2x2 multibld, super square-1, gigaminx, none of that.


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## JasonDL13 (Sep 16, 2014)

Joey VOV said:


> I'm so tired of hearing sill suggestions like "2x2 OH, 4x4 FMC"



I think it's at least fair to add Skewb one-foot multiple blindfolded fewest moves.


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## Mikel (Sep 16, 2014)

JasonDL13 said:


> I think it's at least fair to add Skewb one-foot multiple blindfolded fewest moves.



How would you even rank a multiple blindfolded fewest moves event?


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## JasonDL13 (Sep 16, 2014)

Mikel said:


> How would you even rank a multiple blindfolded fewest moves event?



I've never thought of that until now.

It's how many cubes you solved, tie-breaker is how many turns it took for all of them, tie-breaker is time. I guess.


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## megaminxwin (Sep 16, 2014)

Gaétan Guimond said:


> A challenge fewest average 2x2 move may seem ridiculous but none cuber control perfectly the corner
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh5miheTXjQ



Those are words.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Sep 16, 2014)

In regards to "A different puzzle than what we currently see in the WCA"

You can pretty much guess which puzzle I am going to advocate in this scenario.


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## Ollie (Sep 16, 2014)

strakerak said:


> In regards to "A different puzzle than what we currently see in the WCA"
> 
> You can pretty much guess which puzzle I am going to advocate in this scenario.



On that basis you could suggest anything vaguely puzzle related.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Sep 16, 2014)

1000 piece puzzle from the supermarket BLD.


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## G2013 (Sep 16, 2014)

200th post!!

Bigger cubes. I want to see people's time. And also 2x2 FMC.


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## tseitsei (Sep 16, 2014)

My question for this thread: Why should WCA add a new events anymore? 

I think current events are more than enough. Very hard to fit all events in to a 2 day comp already.

Also I think most (if not all) events discussed in this thread are at least one of the following:
1. Not bringing much (or anything) new to the solving concept (ex. relays, bigger cubes, kilo/gigaminx, 4x4OH etc etc...)
2. Take too long to be official (ex. bigger cubes, gigaminx, 6/7BLD, 4x4FMC etc...)
3. Are not really "twisty puzzles" and shouldn't be held by WCA (ex. slidy puzzles, and from current event I think clock falls to this category also but I have no strong opinion for its removal)

So I think current events are quite well balanced. No need to fix something that isn't broken...


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## TDM (Sep 16, 2014)

tseitsei said:


> My question for this thread: Why should WCA add a new events anymore?


I don't think so either. I was asking myself earlier today, "why is this thread still here?" Because none of these are going to be added.


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## Michael Womack (Sep 16, 2014)

TDM said:


> I don't think so either. I was asking myself earlier today, "why is this thread still here?" Because none of these are going to be added.



I agree. The only reason why a new event is added are cause of these:
1. popularity of the puzzle
2. scramble type
3. average solve time
4. how easy is it for the cubers to buy the puzzle
5. rules of what versions are allowed
6. the turning quality of the puzzle.
and a few other thing.

An example is that the 3x3x2 is a very affordable puzzle that can be bought from most cube stores and the scramble notation can be easily read and understood plus the 3x3x2 can be solved under 1:30 min. While the 17x17x17 is only on shapeways with the price that is over $1000 and the scrambles would be very very long and hard to understand. If where to speedsolve the 17x17x17 it would take me about 5 hours to solve it. So to sum it up you would have to consider allot of things about the puzzle in order to make it an official WCA event.


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## Cubo largo (Sep 16, 2014)

Well I would prefer surely the 3x3x5 than the 3x3x2. It's more complete and allows to create a wider set of strategies.


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## PixelWizard (Sep 16, 2014)

http://tobipch.github.io/Cublog//general/wca/event/future/2014/09/16/Next-WCA-Event.html


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## Renslay (Sep 16, 2014)

PixelWizard said:


> http://tobipch.github.io/Cublog//general/wca/event/future/2014/09/16/Next-WCA-Event.html



"Collaboration 3x3 Solve" That just sounds ridiculous (as a WCA event). 1) Method preference? Huh? 2) How do you judge the change was after one substep (and not two for example, and saying "ah, that was only a skip")? Nah, you didn't mean that seriously.


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## GuRoux (Sep 16, 2014)

Renslay said:


> "Collaboration 3x3 Solve" That just sounds ridiculous (as a WCA event). 1) Method preference? Huh? 2) How do you judge the change was after one substep (and not two for example, and saying "ah, that was only a skip")? Nah, you didn't mean that seriously.



what about one guy is the right hand and the other guy the left hand. i guess people would just do OH instead.


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## IRNjuggle28 (Sep 16, 2014)

strakerak said:


> In regards to "A different puzzle than what we currently see in the WCA"
> 
> You can pretty much guess which puzzle I am going to advocate in this scenario.



I like that idea, and lots of people here do. But before asking to make it an official WCA event, prove that it works. Why don't you try to organize something? Talk to Ben or Soup or qqwref or someone about it. It doesn't have to be an official WCA event. Start unofficial competitions. They can be competitions in person, with physical slidy puzzles, or they can be some sort of online slidysim comp. Either one. If comps are a success, and you get a big enough number of participants, and the cubing and sliding communities overlap enough, you'll have a much better case for making it an official event. Right now, there isn't much support for making it official. Even Ben said he didn't think it was a good idea, or maybe he was only talking about official slidysim, not official realslidypuzzle. Not sure.


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## Michael Womack (Sep 17, 2014)

IRNjuggle28 said:


> I like that idea, and lots of people here do. But before asking to make it an official WCA event, prove that it works. Why don't you try to organize something? Talk to Ben or Soup or qqwref or someone about it. It doesn't have to be an official WCA event. Start unofficial competitions. They can be competitions in person, with physical slidy puzzles, or they can be some sort of online slidysim comp. Either one. If comps are a success, and you get a big enough number of participants, and the cubing and sliding communities overlap enough, you'll have a much better case for making it an official event. Right now, there isn't much support for making it official. Even Ben said he didn't think it was a good idea, or maybe he was only talking about official slidysim, not official realslidypuzzle. Not sure.



if it was the Slidysim we all know who is the fastest and that would be LoLBen(Ben Whitmore)


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## IRNjuggle28 (Sep 17, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> if it was the Slidysim we all know who is the fastest and that would be LoLBen(Ben Whitmore)


Oh, I have a feeling Ben is the fastest regardless of whether it's a simulator or a real puzzle.  Maybe if Moyu or someone makes a decent 15 puzzle people will actually practice it and we'll know. 

What's your opinion on having official sliding puzzle competitions?


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## Deleted member 19792 (Sep 17, 2014)

I'm a bit faster than Ben on physical puzzle. [Still need to make a video]

The metal physical puzzles are really good after break in [They are good out of the box, but they are all different, so add some lube]


I can write attempt to write up a proposal with the work of soup, Ben, and qqwref.


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## tseitsei (Sep 17, 2014)

Please explain how are slidy puzzles considered "rubiks puzzles" or "twisty puzzles" all of a sudden? WCA only organizes those two types of events. That is clearly said in the regs...


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## AvGalen (Sep 17, 2014)

It was also clearly said in the regs that there was no skewb-event. Things can change


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## guysensei1 (Sep 17, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> It was also clearly said in the regs that there was no skewb-event. Things can change



It was explicitly stated that skewb was NOT an event some time ago?


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## tseitsei (Sep 17, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> It was also clearly said in the regs that there was no skewb-event. Things can change



Changing some regs is one thing and changing the whole definition of WCA is another one...

Also


> It was explicitly stated that skewb was NOT an event some time ago?


If so that's quite weird and funny


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## AvGalen (Sep 17, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> It was explicitly stated that skewb was NOT an event some time ago?


9b of the regulations said which events there were. Skewb was not mentioned so it was not an event.


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## AlGoreRhythm (Sep 18, 2014)

15-puzzle would be pretty cool. There's already a thread discussing adding it as an official event.


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## Michael Womack (Sep 18, 2014)

AlGoreRhythm said:


> 15-puzzle would be pretty cool. There's already a thread discussing adding it as an official event.



I don't think it's worth having it as an event cause of how hard the scrambles will be to read and understand. Also not everyone is wiling to participate in it or buy that puzzle. Plus it's just a stupid puzzle that has been around for many many years before the Rubik's cube 3x3 that started all of the Twisty puzzles. All of the current events are of puzzles that are a 3d Twisty type puzzle.


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## AlGoreRhythm (Sep 18, 2014)

> Plus it's just a stupid puzzle



Okay. I had no idea people thought it was so stupid. I'm sorry for stating my opinion.




> All of the current events are of puzzles that are a 3d Twisty type puzzle.



I know a lot of people are against clock, too, but technically it isn't a 3d twisty type puzzle.




> Also not everyone is wiling to participate in it or buy that puzzle.



Not everyone is willing to buy or participate in events like skewb, 7x7, clock, and megaminx either. Your point?




> the Rubik's cube 3x3 that started all of the Twisty puzzles



If I remember correctly, the Rubik's Cube popularized twisty puzzles, not started them all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubik's_Cube#Prior_attempts


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## TDM (Sep 18, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> I don't think it's worth having it as an event cause of how hard the scrambles will be to read and understand.


They wouldn't be hard to read if you had them split into groups of 5ish moves. I don't see how it would be hard to understand scrambling notation at all.


> Also not everyone is wiling to participate in it or buy that puzzle.


Couldn't you say that about every event there is?


> Plus it's just a stupid puzzle


Why?


> that has been around for many many years before the Rubik's cube 3x3 that started all of the Twisty puzzles.


I don't see why that should mean it can't be included as an official event.


> All of the current events are of puzzles that are a 3d Twisty type puzzle.


Is clock a twisty puzzle?


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## tseitsei (Sep 18, 2014)

TDM said:


> Is clock a twisty puzzle?



It's a borderline case for me. 
It kind of isn't, BUT it kind of is because you still twist the "scrolls" or whatever those things are called to twist the clocks to different positions...

Slidy puzzle on the other hand is not a twisty puzzle in any sense.

(+ I think clock doesn't really fit WCA either)


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## AlGoreRhythm (Sep 18, 2014)

> Quote Originally Posted by Michael Womack View Post
> I don't think it's worth having it as an event cause of how hard the scrambles will be to read and understand.
> They wouldn't be hard to read if you had them split into groups of 5ish moves. I don't see how it would be hard to understand scrambling notation at all.
> Also not everyone is wiling to participate in it or buy that puzzle.
> ...





I don't quite know how to say this, but I had a reply that looked almost exactly like this, to this thread, but now i't's gone.

Seriously, it's kinda weird.


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## Ranzha (Sep 18, 2014)

15 puzzle is a cool puzzle. It's fun and easy to solve, difficult to physically solve quickly, and would open the door to new types of thinking about puzzle-solving.
This said, I don't believe it falls under the realm of the WCA as it exists currently.
However, who's the say the "authority" (can't think of a better word) of the WCA can't change to include slidy puzzles? But then, would the term "World Cube Association" still be reasonably accurate?



AlGoreRhythm said:


> I don't quite know how to say this, but I had a reply that looked almost exactly like this, to this thread, but now i't's gone.
> 
> Seriously, it's kinda weird.



I don't see anything here.

Also: What is wrong with Team BLD?


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## Michael Womack (Sep 18, 2014)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> What is wrong with Team BLD?



A few big problems I see here is that:
Who gets the time put onto there WCA profile?
and How are we going to set it up so that the team BLD won't affect the solves of other teams.?


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## Bindedsa (Sep 18, 2014)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> This said, I don't believe it falls under the realm of the WCA as it exists currently.
> However, who's the say the "authority" (can't think of a better word) of the WCA can't change to include slidy puzzles? But then, would the term "World Cube Association" still be reasonably accurate?


clock, pyraminx and megaminx are not cubes.


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## guysensei1 (Sep 18, 2014)

Bindedsa said:


> clock, pyraminx and megaminx are not cubes.


V cube 7...


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## Michael Womack (Sep 18, 2014)

guysensei1 said:


> V cube 7...



The definition of a cube is a Polyhedron(3d shape) that is composed of 6 square faces with 12 edges and 8 corners. So technically it's a cube by the definition I gave but does not have flat faces like the SS 7x7 does.


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## Erik (Sep 18, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> A few big problems I see here is that:
> Who gets the time put onto there WCA profile?



Both. Optionally you could make 2 lists (caller/solver). This is just a matter of choice, several options would work.



> and How are we going to set it up so that the team BLD won't affect the solves of other teams.?



1. As long as you are not shouting: OMG, THE CROSS IS ONLY R D2, you should be fine. Also: shouting so loud others can hear it is against the regs, since it's distracting other people solving.
2. Personally I find calling out moves very inefficient, you'd have to know other people's codes to know what's going on.


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## TMOY (Sep 18, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> The definition of a cube is a Polyhedron(3d shape) that is composed of 6 square faces with 12 edges and 8 corners. So technically it's a cube by the definition I gave but does not have flat faces like the SS 7x7 does.



Fine. Now please define "square".


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## Bindedsa (Sep 18, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> The definition of a cube is a Polyhedron(3d shape) that is composed of 6 square faces with 12 edges and 8 corners. So technically it's a cube by the definition I gave but does not have flat faces like the SS 7x7 does.



The edges are not straight, therefore the faces are not sqaure.


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## Michael Womack (Sep 18, 2014)

TMOY said:


> Fine. Now please define "square".



A square is a 2d shape with 4 equal length sides and has 4 90 degree angled corners.


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## TDM (Sep 18, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> A square is a 2d shape with 4 equal length sides and has 4 90 degree angled corners.








its a square
(sorry if my drawing isnt very neat)


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## Michael Womack (Sep 18, 2014)

TDM said:


> http://i.imgur.com/ZnaxSZi.png
> its a square
> (sorry if my drawing isnt very neat)



No that's actually a rectangle. But a square as all 4 equal length sides. Like on a 57mm 3x3 the face square has a 57mm edge length on all 4 sides.


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## Mollerz (Sep 18, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> The definition of a cube is a Polyhedron(3d shape) that is composed of 6 square faces with 12 edges and 8 corners. So technically it's a cube by the definition I gave but does not have flat faces like the SS 7x7 does.



V Cube 7 faces are not square.


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## TMOY (Sep 18, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> A square is a 2d shape with 4 equal length sides and has 4 90 degree angled corners.



V-cube 7 faces do not have 90 degree angled corners. Look closer.


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## Michael Womack (Sep 18, 2014)

TMOY said:


> V-cube 7 faces do not have 90 degree angled corners. Look closer.





Mollerz said:


> V Cube 7 faces are not square.



But it's still in a Cube like shape right?

It's like saying that the Petaminx it not a Dodecahedron Shaped puzzle. It has 12 Pentagonal faces and 12 colors but it's pillowed like the V-cube 7. http://speedcubes.ru/published/publ...SC/products_pictures/MF8 Petaminx 2fp_enl.jpg


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## AlGoreRhythm (Sep 19, 2014)

One minute we're discussing the intellectual value of twisty-puzzles, the next we're arguing about what a square is. 

I love this community


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## Michael Womack (Sep 19, 2014)

AlGoreRhythm said:


> One minute we're discussing the intellectual value of twisty-puzzles, the next we're arguing about what a square is.
> 
> I love this community



Well get use to it cause this type of thing happens all the time.


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## minstorm340 (Sep 21, 2014)

KILOMINX


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## Michael Womack (Sep 21, 2014)

minstorm340 said:


> KILOMINX



Which one the Killominx or Master Killominx?


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## Seanliu (Sep 21, 2014)

Multi-Blind OH Ghosst Cube XD (not rly, just normal ghost cube!)


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## cashis (Sep 21, 2014)

idk if its been mentioned but floppy cube


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## Deleted member 19792 (Sep 21, 2014)

Oh God no.


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## minstorm340 (Sep 21, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> Which one the Killominx or Master Killominx?


Just the normal kilominx. The only problem is that you can't find them anywhere.


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## mns112 (Sep 21, 2014)

Team BLD Team Relay and BLD OH (from Kabyanil Talukdars awesome video)


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## Ranzha (Sep 21, 2014)

Bindedsa said:


> clock, pyraminx and megaminx are not cubes.



>reasonably accurate
Also, they're certainly twisty puzzles.



Michael Womack said:


> A few big problems I see here is that:
> Who gets the time put onto there WCA profile?
> and How are we going to set it up so that the team BLD won't affect the solves of other teams.?



These have NEVER, EVER been an issue.

Very soon, I'll either bump an old Team BLD thread or make a new one to reopen discussion about how to deal with the "problems" Team BLD has.

Talking too loudly: 2g
Spectating at a close enough distance: 7b
Doubled competitor counts for more rounds: 9m (Exception: For Team Blindfolded Solving, these competitor counts are doubled.)


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## Michael Womack (Sep 21, 2014)

minstorm340 said:


> Just the normal kilominx. The only problem is that you can't find them anywhere.



Actually Mefferts still sells the Flowerminx(Kilominx)
http://www.mefferts.com/products/details.php?lang=en&category=13&id=314
http://www.mefferts.com/products/details.php?lang=en&category=13&id=315
http://www.mefferts.com/products/details.php?lang=en&category=13&id=313


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## minstorm340 (Sep 22, 2014)

Or one-foot 7x7 multi bld relay


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## obelisk477 (Sep 25, 2014)

We should have a comp for assembling a SS7x7. You just get a bucket full of pieces and you have to sort and assemble it correctly the fastest.


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