# Theoretical average/solve average poll



## QQW (Jun 5, 2014)

I would like to know the theoretical averages of speedcubers of different levels compared to there actual solve average. 
For those who don't know, the theoretical average is done by pausing the timer after each substep of a solve, do an inspection period, and restart the timer as you start doing moves. Example: in CFOP, you would do cross PAUSE f2l slot1 PAUSE f2l slot2 PAUSE f2l slot3 PAUSE f2l slot4 PAUSE oll PAUSE pll

*I know, there is another thread about the theoretical average(dating from 2007) but there wasn't comparisons between the theoretical average and the solve average. *

With a lot of replies, I could make a graph of the proportions of the theoretical avg/solve avg by solve speed (or possibly speedcubing method)

If you can, it would be appreciated if you also write your avg number of solves per solve and your tps.

I encourage cubers of all levels to answer(it would be nice if I had a sub-10 person) so that the statistics would be concluding.

P. S. it is for *3x3*


----------



## Baku (Jun 5, 2014)

Are you only doing this for CFOP, or will you take other methods (such as ZZ)?


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jun 5, 2014)

QQW said:


> I would like to know the theoretical averages of speedcubers of different levels compared to there actual solve average.
> For those who don't know, the theoretical average is done by pausing the timer after each substep of a solve, do an inspection period, and restart the timer as you start doing moves. Example: in CFOP, you would do cross PAUSE f2l slot1 PAUSE f2l slot2 PAUSE f2l slot3 PAUSE f2l slot4 PAUSE oll PAUSE pll
> 
> *I know, there is another thread about the theoretical average(dating from 2007) but there wasn't comparisons between the theoretical average and the solve average. *
> ...


Normal average: 23
Theoretical average: 17

Wow, this is really surprising, I thought for sure it would be like sub 12, I guess not. I guess i gotta work on TPS.


----------



## QQW (Jun 5, 2014)

> Are you only doing this for CFOP, or will you take other methods (such as ZZ)?



Any method(even beginner's) is accepted








> Normal average: 23
> Theoretical average: 17
> 
> Wow, this is really surprising, I thought for sure it would be like sub 12, I guess not. I guess i gotta work on TPS.



Seriously, I avg 20sec and my theoretical avg 3 of 5 is 16.133333 (13.8, 17.3, 18.8, 17.3, 10.7(pll skip)) and I'm still working hard on lookahead.


----------



## 10461394944000 (Jun 5, 2014)

average: 9-10
theoretical average: 6.8

ok


----------



## uyneb2000 (Jun 5, 2014)

Average: 9-10
Theoretical Average: 6.85


----------



## yoinneroid (Jun 5, 2014)

normal average: 9.14, 8.76, 8.99, 10.66, 8.70 = 8.96
theoritical average: 9.68, 7.93, 9.45, 9.89, 9.06 = 9.40
lol, either I need higher turn speed or I don't know how to start the fast way


----------



## GuRoux (Jun 5, 2014)

using roux (FB, SB, CMLL, LSE)
average: 11
theoreticl average: 2.2+3.5+1.7+2.8=10.2
probably not as useful in roux because i didn't count what ever pauses might be inside the SB or LSE which i normally would have.


----------



## CyanSandwich (Jun 5, 2014)

Normal avg: 18
Theoretical avg: 13.6 (based off this avg of 5)


Spoiler



2.08, 1.33, 2.34, 1.59, 1.92, 1.31, 0.17 = 10.74 (PLL skip)
1.37, 1.09, 1.41, 3.16, 2.77, 1.91, 2.73 = 14.44
2.39, 0.98, 1.78, 1.19, 1.97, 3.38, 2.05 = 13.74
1.57, 0.79, 2.45, 1.16, 1.75, 2.90, 2.00 = 12.62
2.46, 1.44, 2.13, 1.46, 2.45, 3.28, 1.80 = 15.02


----------



## ~Adam~ (Jun 5, 2014)

How are people timing this?


----------



## CyanSandwich (Jun 5, 2014)

cube-o-holic said:


> How are people timing this?


I timed each step like they're a separate solve. So I inspect cross, solve, stop. Inspect F2l-1, solve, stop and so on.

I think that's how you're supposed to do it.


----------



## ~Adam~ (Jun 5, 2014)

So a substantial amount of time is being added per solve to start and stop the timer? I may do this later on camera and count the amount of time taken to solve.


----------



## SweetSolver (Jun 5, 2014)

*Normal average: ~25*

*Theoretical average: 15*

Wow, that just shows how terrible my look-ahead is


----------



## Bindedsa (Jun 5, 2014)

Normal avg: 12.5
Theoretical avg: 9.12


Spoiler



1.36, 0.74, 0.75, 0.95, 1.23, 1.40 = 6.43 // ZBLL
1.70, 1.25, 0.93, 0.86, 1.22, 2.44, 2.37 = 10.77
1.45, 0.85, 1.62, 0.67, 1.42, 2.48 = 8.49 // ZBLL
1.59, 1.39, 1.51, 1.06, 1.83, 1.62 = 9.00 // Xcross
1.66, 1.93, 2.19, 0.79, 0.98, 1.10, 2.52 = 9.87


----------



## TDM (Jun 5, 2014)

*Normal average:* 14.5
*Theoretical average:* 13.16, 14.51, 12.47, 12.07, 12.80 = *12.81*


Spoiler



2.73, 1.97, 1.80, 2.18, 1.25, 2.15, 2.43
2.73, 1.97, 1.80, 2.18, 1.25, 2.15, 2.43
2.42, 1.64, 1.13, 1.90, 0.83, 1.36, 2.02, 1.17
2.46, 1.19, 2.09, 1.95, 1.05, 1.17, 2.16
2.95, 1.37, 0.70, 2.87, 1.17, 1.25, 1.03, 1.46


I don't _think_ I pause during F2L, and I know my cross-F2L, OLL and PLL recog are bad, so that average makes sense.


----------



## DeeDubb (Jun 5, 2014)

Normal Average: 24.34
Theoretical Average: 20.47



Spoiler



FB	SB	CMLL	EO	UL/UR	L4E	Total
6.13	9.92	2.07	2.67	5.38	0.43	26.60
5.92	7.42	6.48	1.97	1.07	1.88	24.74
3.21	6.07	3.27	2.72	3.33	1.71	20.31
6.10	6.07	3.97	2.88	2.07	1.61	22.70
6.26	3.42	5.48	2.63	1.95	1.97	21.71
5.43	7.86	4.32	2.56	2.00	2.20	24.37
6.11	4.77	4.11	2.30	2.41	1.17	20.87
6.57	5.19	1.96	2.16	2.26	1.32	(19.46)
6.49	6.87	3.41	1.21	2.51	1.62	22.11
6.08	6.59	1.61	1.44	3.55	2.01	21.28
11.14	6.40	2.22	2.23	2.77	2.88	(27.64)
Avg 5.79	5.88	3.24	2.06	2.44	1.57	*20.47*


----------



## DeeDubb (Jun 5, 2014)

GuRoux said:


> probably not as useful in roux because i didn't count what ever pauses might be inside the SB or LSE which i normally would have.



Yeah, I think Roux is not going to have the drastic difference that CFOP has because our steps are a bit weird. I feel like we have mini look-aheads during our steps, rather than CFOP which has identifiy, go go TPS Alg, identify, go go TPS alg.


----------



## Bindedsa (Jun 5, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Yeah, I think Roux is not going to have the drastic difference that CFOP has because our steps are a bit weird. I feel like we have mini look-aheads during our steps, rather than CFOP which has identifiy, go go TPS Alg, identify, go go TPS alg.


Why not look ahead as far as you can, then do that stop the timer and repeat?


----------



## DeeDubb (Jun 5, 2014)

Bindedsa said:


> Why not look ahead as far as you can, then do that stop the timer and repeat?



Mmmm... I guess I'm not that good at looking ahead? I still can't do my first block blindfolded. I can do a 2x2x1, and sort of track the last pair, but I rarely can do the full block blindfolded. I broke my L6E down into 3 steps for this, but I guess I would need to break my blocks into 2 steps each to cut off some of the lookahead time (between 2x2 and the last pair)


----------



## Bindedsa (Jun 5, 2014)

DeeDubb said:


> Mmmm... I guess I'm not that good at looking ahead? I still can't do my first block blindfolded. I can do a 2x2x1, and sort of track the last pair, but I rarely can do the full block blindfolded. I broke my L6E down into 3 steps for this, but I guess I would need to break my blocks into 2 steps each to cut off some of the lookahead time (between 2x2 and the last pair)


Why not just do what ever you can. When I did it, I had an Xcross in my fourth solve, so my cross and first pair were in one step, I also used 2 ZBLLs, which meant I combined OLL and PLL. No need to constrict yourself.


----------



## applemobile (Jun 5, 2014)

TBH i don't think my theoretical solve is a fair representation of my normal solves. More than once i ended up doing a different f2l than what i had spotted during the last pair.


----------



## kcl (Jun 5, 2014)

Normal average: 9.6
Theoretical average: 6.8
hmm, ll pauses hurt me a lot.


----------



## Bindedsa (Jun 5, 2014)

applemobile said:


> TBH i don't think my theoretical solve is a fair representation of my normal solves. More than once i ended up doing a different f2l than what i had spotted during the last pair.



Isn't that the point?


----------



## kinch2002 (Jun 5, 2014)

Rather than having 20458135 timer starts and stops, why not just rehearse solves and time them?


----------



## applemobile (Jun 5, 2014)

Bindedsa said:


> Isn't that the point?



The point is to remove all look ahead time. Daniels idea of rehearsing the solve is much better.


----------



## ElectricDoodie (Jun 5, 2014)

So even with perfect look ahead, I'm still not world class...


----------



## SirWaffle (Jun 5, 2014)

normal avg 12.5
Theoretical avg 9.95


----------



## Divineskulls (Jun 5, 2014)

Normal avg: 11-12
Theoretical avg: 8.48 avg5


----------



## uberCuber (Jun 5, 2014)

ElectricDoodie said:


> So even with perfect look ahead, I'm still not world class...



Most people probably won't be. Feliks' turn speed is ridiculous at this point.


----------



## Petro Leum (Jun 5, 2014)

i slowturn all the time. i basically have a small pause after every move during blockbuilding stage. should i do 20+ pauses?


----------



## mark49152 (Jun 5, 2014)

kinch2002 said:


> Rather than having 20458135 timer starts and stops, why not just rehearse solves and time them?


http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42514-The-fastest-fingers-competition

An enjoyable event that struggled to keep going.


----------



## ElectricDoodie (Jun 6, 2014)

uberCuber said:


> Most people probably won't be. Feliks' turn speed is ridiculous at this point.



Wondering if Feliks has done this, and if his results have been posted.


----------



## Rocky0701 (Jun 6, 2014)

ElectricDoodie said:


> Wondering if Feliks has done this, and if his results have been posted.


Idk, i wanted to see how fast he could a PLL time attack because i bet he could almost sub 21 it if he really practiced, so i asked him on his FB page if he could a video of one on YouTube and he said no because he sucked at PLL time attacks.


----------



## sneaklyfox (Jun 6, 2014)

Normal average: 15.5
Last Ao5: (15.80), (11.98), 12.70, 12.97, 14.36 = 13.34
Theoretical average: (9.64), 11.34, (11.80), 10.68, 9.73 = 10.58


----------



## BoBoGuy (Jun 7, 2014)

Normal avg- 10.6
Theoretical-7.4
lol


----------



## Bindedsa (Jun 7, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42514-The-fastest-fingers-competition
> 
> An enjoyable event that struggled to keep going.


I kept trying to restart it, but no one else wants to join in.


----------

