# Cross on left discussion thread



## DavidWoner (Aug 29, 2010)

So as I am sure my fellow cross on lefters (or the rare righty) have noticed, we are few in number. There are no tutorials for cross on left, and a majority of the advanced f2l tricks cross on D solvers use translate poorly to COL. As a result, many of us have independently developed our own tricks, rarely getting a chance to share them with one another. After Macky's challenge to cubers to push F2L to it's limits, I realized that almost of all the developments he made (and likely most developments to come) are useless to me. After talking to Phillip Espinoza a few days ago I realized that we have so much to share with each other, but no place to do it. So I thought I'd move the discussion from his facebook wall to this forum.

A good place to start:
Phillip's general f2l algs
Leyan's algs

I don't have the time or energy to generate images at the moment, so just bear with me and do the inverse to figure out what this stuff does.

1 Empty Slot algs:
F R U R' U 'F'
F U R U' R' F'
U r U' r' U'
U r U r' U'
L2 U' R' U M2 U' R U
r U' R' U r' and inverse. Really anything in the moveset <r,R,U> that follows this general pattern is a great way to keyhole stuff.

2-3 Empty Slot algs:
M2 U2 M2 U2
M' U2 M U2 and inverse etc

Single Slot algs:
F' R U' R' U R' F
U R r U' R' U r' U'
r U r' D' r U' r' D (fingertrick like Eperm)
U R' U' F' U' R' U2 R U' F (Indexpush F', can do Bw instead if its last slot)

I'm aware this is not much, but it's a start. Hopefully word will get out to the other COL solvers and we can get a good list going.


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## oprah62 (Aug 29, 2010)

I know for a fact Leyan has COL algs on his page, and also Nathaniel uses COL.


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## waffle=ijm (Aug 29, 2010)

Before switching to Roux, I was a fan of cross on left. Execution wasn't a problem rather the transition from pair to pair was harder for me. anyway, I do hope to see more diversity in CFOP since it seems very bland for people to stick to what the majority does. I really hope that this starts up


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## FatBoyXPC (Aug 29, 2010)

Last August, before I switched from Keyhole to CFOP, I would cross on left. The only downside is that I wouldn't do F2L that way, just corners, then edges separate. At the time I wish I could have seen COL stuff about F2L then, I think it might have made my transition a bit easier. I can't complain though, I averaged 40ish as soon as I started F2L (that was my average with keyhole + 4LLL sometimes up to 6 looks arggg).


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## Joker (Aug 29, 2010)

Whoa, I just did a COL cross+F2L solve, and I see major potential...I may even switch...keep up those algs


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## Tim Major (Aug 29, 2010)

Joker said:


> Whoa, I just did a COL cross+F2L solve, and *I see major potential*...I may even switch...keep up those algs



Lolol.
A "major potential". It's not like this is new, and it's not like noone fast uses this >_>


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## Faz (Aug 29, 2010)

Tomasz is fasta.


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## dillonbladez (Aug 29, 2010)

I use cross on left, but don't do my F2L on left...


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## Edward (Aug 29, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Joker said:
> 
> 
> > Whoa, I just did a COL cross+F2L solve, and *I see major potential*...I may even switch...keep up those algs
> ...



Maybe he meant major potential for himself?


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Aug 29, 2010)

If cross on left=COL solver, does that make me a COD solver? 

I used to do algs like L' U' L U L' U' L by rotating cross to left and doing it as an RU alg, but that was before I was any good with my left hand and I eventually switched. I might have a look at some of the COL algs because z/z' rotations aren't too bad so if I see some nice algs I might switch to them. U' R2 U R U' R' U is pretty good I think.

Matt


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## Joker (Aug 29, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Joker said:
> 
> 
> > Whoa, I just did a COL cross+F2L solve, and *I see major potential*...I may even switch...keep up those algs
> ...



I've seen that vid and I know its not new
But I just tried it and it seems pretty good. But it would be hard to get used to if you have done cross on bottom all this time. I guess I can give some F2L algs for this later today when I have time.


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## Carrot (Aug 29, 2010)

it's funny, because I have been thinking of changing my cross/F2L side from D to R


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## Joker (Aug 29, 2010)

Edward said:


> ZB_FTW!!! said:
> 
> 
> > Joker said:
> ...



Yes i did
My lookahead is twice as good with COL


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## Chapuunka (Aug 29, 2010)

ZZ Line on left?


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## Forte (Aug 29, 2010)

Chapuunka said:


> ZZ Line on left?



That makes your F2L RUD or RFB


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## Chapuunka (Aug 29, 2010)

Forte said:


> Chapuunka said:
> 
> 
> > ZZ Line on left?
> ...



Maybe SQ-1 people would appreciate the RUD.


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## cmhardw (Aug 29, 2010)

I'm sure a number of the cross on lefters (or cross on right) already know this. But, as important as people stress it is to be able to do the LR reflection of an F2L case when solving cross on bottom, I assume cross on left (or right) would need to be very comfortable with the UD reflection of each case. I wrote up a way to reflect algorithms in your head a long time ago. Perhaps this would be a bit useful to some in this discussion?

Chris


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## Meep (Aug 29, 2010)

I randomly switch to COL on the 3x3 stage of 5x5 'cause it's simply easier to execute things that way at times =P


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 29, 2010)

Chapuunka said:


> ZZ Line on left?


I did this for a week.
I call it LOLZZ.


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## Cride5 (Aug 29, 2010)

Related threads:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15997
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13774



Chapuunka said:


> ZZ Line on left?


Solving RUD-gen helps to avoid re-grips with the 'holding' hand, but I personally found the lookahead too difficult to be worth it.


EDIT: Lol, stachu


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## Weston (Aug 29, 2010)

U2 r U2 r' U2

One of my favorite OH tricks.


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## maggot (Aug 29, 2010)

Meep said:


> I randomly switch to COL on the 3x3 stage of 5x5 'cause it's simply easier to execute things that way at times =P



this

sometime i get very disoriented when i come out of edge pair, especially on 4x4. i use syuhei edges, so when i finish the 6 pair, im left with 0,2,3 edge and since nothing is sliced, i move the edge without respect to keeping my top color in the same orientation. so, many times i do not pay attention to what cube rotation i have done to pair the last 2/3 edge and my cross is any color, so i scan the cube to see opposite side and pair (best possible cross color neutral) and whatever side the cross is on, i put to left down or up face to make it easiest. if best possible cross is on B F or R, i will cube rotate to put on D face. sometimes if my first F2L pair is made on the opposite face i will insert it with the cross staying on the left. i never insert 1st F2L pair on up face cross, i just throw it on the bottom as i am scanning for pairs. i find it interesting that other people take advantage of multiple cross positioning on big cube


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## Stefan (Aug 29, 2010)

U' R2 U2 r U r' U'


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## Ravi (Aug 30, 2010)

I would classify myself as a quasi-COL solver. I generally solve the cross itself on U, but rotate it to L as I finish it. Then I solve most of F2L with cross on left, but usually switch to cross on D for the last pair (or occasionally two or three; sometimes I even switch back and forth within a solve). All of those cube rotations are entirely subconscious, so I actually have to pay attention to my own cube rotations in a few example solves to even figure out what rotations I'm doing. My F2L also has a few other quirks:

* I use multislotting extensively, but it's mostly old-school stuff, nearly all based on simple insertions and removals combined with some lookahead to tell which of two or three options will preserve/create the best pair. I also frequently try to preserve a pair during F2L and while solving the cross. I would describe my multislotting as extremely improvisational.

* A lot of my algs/tendencies (especially preserving pairs during F2L) are geared more towards cutting moves than cutting time. This is because (1) I have used the same algorithms, for the most part, since 2004 or 2005, when there was more of an emphasis on optimal algs than crazy finger tricks; and (2) I have never yet owned a speedcube smooth enough to make lockups a non-issue. If I try to execute a 12-move alg that you can do in 1.1 seconds, then I may well lock up once or twice, thereby turning it into 2-3 seconds or more.

* Apart from multislotting, I frequently use VH/partial edge control and/or the Winter variation during the last slot to affect OLL. (I'm not convinced that full VH and/or Winter variation would help more than it would hurt, but I know most of the nicer cases of each.) Some cases of those systems force me to rotate cross to D before the last pair.

Right now, I'm averaging around 12.3 seconds for the full cube. By my estimates, my splits are about 1.7 for cross, 5.7 for the rest of F2L, and 4.9 for LL.

How does this compare to other cross-on-lefters? (I'm guessing my style is pretty unusual even compared to those of other COL solvers.)


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## XXGeneration (Aug 30, 2010)

I think the reason there aren't as many COLers is simply _because_ there aren't enough COLers. It's like the QWERTY vs the Dvorak keyboards. There aren't many Dvorak keyboarders, and they don't tend to pass it on, while the QWERTY keyboard is the standard for all computers.


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## PhillipEspinoza (Aug 30, 2010)

I really like this idea. We should put up a site or something like Macky's layout. I wanna get Tomasz involved in this too. 

I like Stefan's alg, it's a good variation of the alg that I wouldn't have thought of.

A few more open slot ones:

F (R U R U' R') F' and it's inverse.

F (R U R2 U') F' (this one would be really good for this alg cuz it's annoying)


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 31, 2010)

A few questions for y'all.

How do you like sims?
Big cubes - what methods do you use, and do you do a rotation abnormal to most?
Team events - have you done team bld/solving with other COLers? How is it with, say, CODers?
How many rotations do you 'normally' go through in a (3x3) solve?
OH - what do you do?
Do you have any OLLs/PLLs you do from that angle, or do you auto-switch on the 4th pair?

I've been practicing some COL for fun over the past 24 hours, probably 200 solves or so, and I have to say, it's rather fun.


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## LarsN (Aug 31, 2010)

Great idea  I asked for this a couple of times before, but when faster cubers are involved now, it may help things a lot.
All of the tricks I use have been mentioned, though, so I guess I could learn a lot from this 



Stachuk1992 said:


> A few questions for y'all.
> 
> How do you like sims?


I do not like them and if I would do one it would be COD.


Stachuk1992 said:


> Big cubes - what methods do you use, and do you do a rotation abnormal to most?


COL. For 4x4 I do the method where you build the cross early and I do that COL.


Stachuk1992 said:


> Team events - have you done team bld/solving with other COLers? How is it with, say, CODers?


I've only tried with COD users and I use COD myself when I'm solving the cube too.


Stachuk1992 said:


> How many rotations do you 'normally' go through in a (3x3) solve?


About 2-3 [R] rotations and 3-4 Lw moves.


Stachuk1992 said:


> OH - what do you do?


COD with a tilt 


Stachuk1992 said:


> Do you have any OLLs/PLLs you do from that angle, or do you auto-switch on the 4th pair?


Autoswitch after 4th pair, but I look into it once without great success´.


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## shelley (Aug 31, 2010)

Stachuk1992 said:


> A few questions for y'all.
> 
> How do you like sims?
> Big cubes - what methods do you use, and do you do a rotation abnormal to most?
> ...



Sims - don't like them, never could get used to them (or cared enough to practice, really), but whenever I did do them I did COD. COL has easier physical execution and more cube rotations. With a sim, there's no real difference between doing one move or another (they're just pressing different keys) so using COD minimizes cube rotations.

Big cubes - don't really do them, but when I do I solve COL after reduction.

Team events - I use the Berkeley team BLD system and call/execute COD. Jfly and I have experimented with executing COL using the same system, so it does work, I just haven't practiced it (since everyone else uses COD anyway).

Cube rotations - I see them as part of a whole fluid movement as opposed to discrete rotations as I see CODers do a lot. A lot of people have commented on this aspect of my solving style - everything looks like a very smooth movement. When I turn the last layer while solving F2L, sometimes it will be R, sometimes it will be Lw, sometimes a combination of the two. It's easy because one hand is always holding R and the other hand is holding the rest of the cube. By doing D flicks with ring fingers, it's also possible to insert into the DB slot, which saves rotations.

OH - I use whatever will keep me from dropping the cube . A little of both I guess, but I'm probably not the right person to ask for this.

OLL/PLLs: just one - the mirror of F (sexy move)*2 F'. I execute it as b' (U' R' U R)*2 b. I adapted it this way because due to COL solving my left hand is completely stupid at doing triggers. I've done a lot of adaptations on LL algs to compensate for this, but I think this is the only one that really retains something like cross on left (and even then, it starts and ends with last layer on top).


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 31, 2010)

Thanks, both of you. 

For now, I'm just going to work on OH and 2H for COL.
I'm still deciding where to do my cross for OH, though. (I do OH RH)

Shelley - I find D moves to help a lot. At first, they were quite awkward to insert into D-layer slots, but it's gotten better.

I'm finding 'rotations' to actually help in COL rather than hinder, as it seems to do for my COD solves.

I'm averaging probably ~23 with this, as opposed to ~19 COD, but that doesn't say much, considering it's the same method. 

/me goes qqtimer.


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## shelley (Aug 31, 2010)

Oh yeah, I do left handed OH. I'd imagine COL isn't so friendly for right handed OH.


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 31, 2010)

shelley said:


> Oh yeah, I do left handed OH. I'd imagine COL isn't so friendly for right handed OH.



COR works okay.


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## Stefan (Aug 31, 2010)

Stachuk1992 said:


> Do you have any OLLs/PLLs you do from that angle



I don't (and actually am back to COD), but Sune feels good with COL and I heard OLL can be done with two Sunes.


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## StachuK1992 (Sep 1, 2010)

I just uploaded a quick average of 5. 24s average.
[youtubehd]zowCeXLiVN8[/youtubehd]

If someone could take a look at this, and tell me if I'm doing something right/wrong, that'd be appreciated. I know I'm taking much too long to recognize some F2L pairs, and sometimes even mess up the cross! 

I hope the lighting/angle is decent. I tried to make it so you could see the general UFL area best.

Edit: Stefan - Ooh, I didn't know you (once) use(d) COL. I'm finding more and more people that do.
Perhaps it would be cool to have a database of what various people use. I'll work on this; I need to do some web programming anyway, and my server is being underused


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## Robert-Y (Sep 1, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> ...but Sune feels good with COL and *I heard OLL can be done with two Sunes.*






Maybe a useful alg for COL f2l: r' U' R U' R' U2' r U2


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## blade740 (Sep 1, 2010)

My biggest problem with cross on left is edge control. I haven't found a good way to fingertrick, for example, an R'FRF', on the left (UF'U'F or similar)


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## LarsN (Sep 1, 2010)

blade740 said:


> My biggest problem with cross on left is edge control. I haven't found a good way to fingertrick, for example, an R'FRF', on the left (UF'U'F or similar)



U  L' U' Rw

EDIT: Just remembered this F2L trick:

U' R U R' Uw' R U R' U' R' Uw


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## shelley (Sep 1, 2010)

blade740 said:


> My biggest problem with cross on left is edge control. I haven't found a good way to fingertrick, for example, an R'FRF', on the left (UF'U'F or similar)



Situations like that are when I'd switch to COD just for the last pair.


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Sep 1, 2010)

I like this. I'm getting 14-15 average right now. My problems consist of:
- Not being able to look ahead during F2L: for example DF, DR and DL edges are hard for me to see, let alone while turning.
- Inefficiency: with COD I found a lot of shortcuts during F2L. Those just don't seem to work well with COL.
- Rotations: I think I should do more D moves, and at least more Lw moves. At the moment my F2L only consists of [R, U, x].

My PB single with COL is now 12.02, with a 13.05 avg5 and a 14.23 avg12.

EDIT:
number of times: 50/50
best time: 10.73 (PLL skip, also had a 11.19 fullstep)
worst time: 22.29

current avg5: 14.56 (σ = 0.52)
best avg5: 13.04 (σ = 0.25)

current avg12: 14.70 (σ = 0.91)
best avg12: 14.21 (σ = 0.99)

session avg: 14.80 (σ = 1.69)
session mean: 14.87


Spoiler



Session average: 14.80
1. 16.42 D2 U B D' B' U2 R2 D R' F2 D F' U2 L' D' U2 L' R2 D U' L B2 D' F' D' 
2. 13.78 B2 R B2 F2 L R2 F' R' B' U2 D2 L R F' R2 B R L2 B2 L B' D' L2 B2 R' 
3. 13.19 U2 F2 U' L R2 D L' F2 D' B2 L' R B' D U' R D2 F2 U2 F2 U R2 F2 U' R2 
4. (22.29) D2 B2 R B' R' D' L2 R' D B' D' R L2 F' D2 B L B' F L B U' F' R B' 
5. 15.17 D2 U R' F' D2 L' U2 R' U L2 B' F D' B2 D R' D2 L2 R B2 R' F L B2 F' 
6. 14.94 D2 F' R F D F2 B2 D R' F B' R U' D F2 B2 L2 R2 D' B L D L' R' U 
7. 14.44 B2 L R' D' F2 L2 D' L2 B F R2 D2 L2 F2 B2 L' U' B' U R2 F2 L F B D' 
8. 13.38 B2 U' B' L' R2 F' B' U2 R2 L' F B D U' B2 D R F2 D' R' U' B F2 R D' 
9. 17.04 L2 F U B U2 D B2 F L R' D' L' F2 L' D U' L2 B D L U2 F D' F' U' 
10. 12.80 R2 L B L' F2 D' U' B D L' U' D2 R2 B2 D' R L B2 U' L2 D' F R2 U2 R' 
11. (10.73) B2 L2 R2 U' D' B' F2 D L2 F R B' D F2 B R' U' F' D2 B U' R' U L' D 
12. 12.93 F R D2 B2 R2 B' R F L B2 F U' F B L2 B L' U' F2 D2 B L2 B2 L2 B2 
13. 15.44 L B F' L D2 L2 R U2 F2 L2 R' F' L' B2 U' B L' R U2 L' D2 F' U F B2 
14. 14.68 U' F B D2 U R2 F' R L B' U2 B2 F R2 D' R2 D' F2 L' F' L R U' F' L2 
15. 15.66 U B F' D2 F U' D2 R2 D' B D2 F2 U' F2 R L2 B' D' U2 R' U2 D' L' R2 F' 
16. 14.63 R F2 B' R' D' F' B' L U R' L' D' B2 F R' L' D2 F U2 R D F2 D2 R' D2 
17. 13.24 B2 U B2 R2 L D R D2 U2 B2 R2 B U' D' L F' U L' R' U' R2 F D2 U' F' 
18. 18.51 F2 B U' L U2 D2 B D' R2 U D' B2 F2 L F' B2 R2 L2 F2 D' L R' F R2 B' 
19. 15.65 F2 D R' D U2 R2 L2 D F' D2 L F2 B D B' D2 U L2 U' D2 L R' D B2 R 
20. 12.80 B F' D' U2 F' L U2 D2 B' F2 R2 L2 U2 B2 D L2 B L' B2 L R2 D' B2 U' R 
21. 15.57 U2 R' U R' D' F L' R' F D U L F R' L2 U2 R2 F' L F2 R' L B2 D2 F2 
22. 13.24 R B2 D U' L' F2 U L' U R' U D B' D' U' R2 F2 U' F' B U B' D U L 
23. 14.42 F2 B' L B2 R2 B' L B' U F' U' D L' B' U F2 R F' B U F2 R2 F' U2 B2 
24. 18.86 D2 U' B2 F R2 B' R' L U D2 L' U' L2 D' L' F' U R B U' D2 F2 B' L D 
25. 15.53 F2 D' F2 U F L R' F' L D2 F' L2 U D' F' U2 L' B' U2 L U' D2 F D' L 
26. 12.37 L' U B2 R F' L D2 U R L' U2 F D2 F2 D' R2 D' R' U R L' F' D' R L2 
27. 13.15 U D B' R B F R2 B2 L' U2 L2 R2 B R2 B' U2 D F' D L F U L2 R U 
28. 14.62 U L U2 D2 L' U D' R' L' F U2 F' L U F U B L U2 L' B' L F' U B' 
29. 17.31 D2 R' F2 L B' D2 B2 R F' R' L2 F2 L R' U R B R B2 U B2 L F' D' F2 
30. 14.91 F L R' F B R' F' U2 R' U2 F U2 R2 L' D' U' R' L' B F' L' R2 U R2 D 
31. 16.47 U' D' B' R B U' B L2 B' R' D2 U' F L2 R' F2 R2 F' U L2 B D L B2 F2 
32. 16.04 R F2 U' B' F L B' U2 F' D B U' F2 U2 F2 D' R2 B2 R2 U2 F' L F U2 D' 
33. 12.99 L D L B2 L F2 B' L F2 R' L B' F L B2 L U L2 D2 L' F2 D2 U' B' F 
34. 19.21 R' L' U B' L2 R B2 L U L B D' R F' B2 U D2 L' F2 L2 U F B' R2 D 
35. 12.97 B' L' D U R2 L2 U' L2 F L2 B' U' B2 L F2 B R U2 F R' L D' R U' R2 
36. 13.61 L' D' R U2 D2 B' F' L' B' D' B' R F2 D2 L2 U' B' R2 F' R' L' F2 U' F R2 
37. 15.69 F L' D' F' D' L F U' L R2 D' F L2 U2 L D' B F R' L B' F2 R2 D B' 
38. 13.69 D2 F2 U2 L' U2 R D' L2 B F2 U2 F R F2 B R' D L' F2 R2 L' D B' L2 U 
39. 16.68 L B L' B' R' L F B U2 D2 L U L U2 L' U D' L' F2 U2 D F' U' F2 D 
40. 15.30 R U D B2 L2 B' D' U L2 U D' L' U R B' F2 D2 L2 D' U' L' R' B L F' 
41. 14.67 L R' F R L' U R' F B2 D B D' L2 F' B' U2 L' U F D' B R' D L B 
42. 11.19 U' L B2 U D' F U2 D2 B2 L B2 U' B2 R2 U' L' D2 F U' R2 B2 F' L' B2 R2 
43. 14.33 L' F U L B D' L' B D' F2 R2 F' L' R2 U2 D B2 D F' R L F B U' F 
44. 13.92 F2 U2 R' U2 L' U L' R U D L2 D' U' R U B F2 U2 B' D F' L R2 F D2 
45. 15.22 D' B' R' F' R2 D' R D L' D2 U2 L U2 R' B L2 D' R' L U2 F R' D F2 U' 
46. 13.90 F' L2 D' R2 F B' U' R2 B' D L U2 F2 B R' D' L' U B2 L B2 U' F R2 U' 
47. 15.17 L D2 L2 B2 F R' D' U2 L2 D B2 R2 D L U' R2 B' L U2 R' F U2 L' F2 D' 
48. 13.21 U R U L R2 F2 B U' B2 R' F U' L2 D2 F2 B' L D B F' L R B U' R' 
49. 16.73 R' F2 R' U L B D2 R F2 R2 L2 B D' F2 R' D' L B2 D F B2 U F2 D2 B' 
50. 14.60 B' D2 L2 F B L2 U D F' L B' U D2 R2 B R' B2 U2 R2 U2 D2 F D' B L'



EDIT: 10.13 NL


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## LarsN (Sep 2, 2010)

Just found this nice sune variant trick for COL: U R U R' U R U2

Is anyone doing the suggested list of these tricks? Or else I might try something, but I don't know more tricks than posted here.


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## Rpotts (Sep 11, 2010)

anyone do COL ZZ for an RUD f2l?


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## StachuK1992 (Sep 11, 2010)

Rpotts said:


> anyone do COL ZZ for an RUD f2l?


Don't you mean LOL ZZ?


For OH, sometimes.
But I'm a RH OH, so COR/LOR, really.


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## Toad (Sep 11, 2010)

Stachuk1992 said:


> Rpotts said:
> 
> 
> > anyone do COL ZZ for an RUD f2l?
> ...



I lol'd.


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## Zarxrax (Sep 11, 2010)

What advantage does Cross on Left offer over Cross on bottom?
The whole point of this isn't immediately obvious to me.


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## Thompson (Sep 11, 2010)

Is it too late for me to switch from f2l on D to f2l on left?? I average 12-11 seconds btw and I already make my cross on left.


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## Cyrus C. (Sep 11, 2010)

Zarxrax said:


> What advantage does Cross on Left offer over Cross on bottom?
> The whole point of this isn't immediately obvious to me.


When I solve with cross on left, I only have to use msves R, U, and l. I have to use a whole bunch with cross on D.


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## Erzz (Sep 11, 2010)

Anyone have ZBF2L algs for COL? If so, I'd totally switch.

EDIT: Or can explain in simple terms how to move them from COD to COL.


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## a small kitten (Sep 11, 2010)

http://cube.crider.co.uk/algtrans.html

just rotate it.


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## Erzz (Sep 11, 2010)

Ah, thanks. I suppose you'd rotate Z then mirror U/D, right? So you don't get all the D moves.


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## RyanReese09 (Sep 11, 2010)

waffle=ijm said:


> Before switching to Roux, I was a fan of cross on left. Execution wasn't a problem rather the transition from pair to pair was harder for me. anyway, I do hope to see more diversity in CFOP since it seems very bland for people to stick to what the majority does. I really hope that this starts up



which is why im doing zz/zbll


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 11, 2010)

Stachuk1992 said:


> How do you like sims?



I like em just fine.

Oh btw David, you might wanna update that F2L alg sheet site, that was just a rough draft. Here's the more completed one:

http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides...w.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/...pinoza-col.pdf 

Also, if you could give credit to Andy Klise who helped put together the pdf that'd be cool. He's the one who approached me about making it.

I've been thinking about how practical it would be to do a solve entirely with cross on left (without rotating for LL). I think it's doable, though it would be hard for me to get used to (generating OLL's/PLL's for performing them on the left would be tricky too). 

As for ZB F2L algs on the side (this goes for MGLS and other extended techniques for F2L) I think it would be best for now just to flip it over.


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## antoniovillena (Jan 14, 2011)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> I've been thinking about how practical it would be to do a solve entirely with cross on left (without rotating for LL). I think it's doable, though it would be hard for me to get used to (generating OLL's/PLL's for performing them on the left would be tricky too).



Hello Phillip

I have worked on it. I have developed on cross left about 60-70% of OLL cases and the complete PLL. Contact me if you are interested _ at antoniovillena dot es

Regards


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## CoolGuyIsCool (Jan 16, 2011)

I can do cross on left
But I can't do F2L or anything past the cross, so usually I will just do cross on bottom for better transition


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## Cubebacca (Jan 17, 2011)

I have tried COL but find it more difficult to look ahead and find my first F2L pairs.


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## miniGOINGS (Apr 12, 2011)

*Finishing a Solve with Cross on Left*

So, instead of creating a new thread, I thought I would just bump this one a little bit, and use this thread for its intended purpose.

Has anybody seriously considered finishing a solve with the cross on left? Has anybody thought about doing OLL/PLL (or however you finish your solve) on R? Does anybody already do this? Anybody fast?

Can anyone think of possible reasons that doing the last layer on the right side is inferior to simply rotating and doing it on top (other than habit)? Could there be any advantages to keeping the last layer on R for doing OLL and PLL?

I was talking to James about this, and he pointed out that there are the exact same number of pieces/stickers to recognize no matter where you finish the solve. In fact, most people starting LBL probably did the last layer on D, and switching to U was awkward at first (at least for me!), but eventually it became second nature. Could it be the same with doing LL on R? He also pointed out that ARF could be really strange compared to the standard AUF.

anyway, that's just what my brain is wondering.


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## qqwref (Apr 12, 2011)

miniGOINGS said:


> Has anybody seriously considered finishing a solve with the cross on left? Has anybody thought about doing OLL/PLL (or however you finish your solve) on R?


I gave it serious consideration for OH (back when my style made D turns very easy), but didn't end up learning enough algs to actually do it.



miniGOINGS said:


> Can anyone think of possible reasons that doing the last layer on the right side is inferior to simply rotating and doing it on top (other than habit)? Could there be any advantages to keeping the last layer on R for doing OLL and PLL?


Well, as James said, I think ARF would be more awkward than AUF, because AUF is done with flicks whereas ARF is done with the wrist, so it's not easy to make fast adjustments in both directions. Plus, your hands do get in the way of R more than U. As far as the actual turns, both l and r are nice when doing OLLs on U, but d is kind of icky, although you can pretty much always get away with u if you try. So I'd say it's definitely doable, but would have some disadvantages compared to U layer solving.


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## miniGOINGS (Apr 12, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Well, as James said, I think ARF would be more awkward than AUF, because AUF is done with flicks whereas ARF is done with the wrist, so it's not easy to make fast adjustments in both directions. Plus, your hands do get in the way of R more than U.



Yea, I guess it would be easiest to just take the right hand off the cube while recognizing, but that makes it hard to ARF. :S



qqwref said:


> As far as the actual turns, both l and r are nice when doing OLLs on U, but d is kind of icky, although you can pretty much always get away with u if you try. So I'd say it's definitely doable, but would have some disadvantages compared to U layer solving.


 
I'm actually not worried about the types of moves...let's just say I have a way of dealing with that. 

The thing I'm most concerned about is that there is a very obvious major disadvantage I have missed noticing completely, which is why I would like to here from someone who uses LL on R in speedsolves.


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## DRAGON_RYU (Jun 2, 2011)

HI.
I'm a COL solver on F2L and cross.
Are there any algorithms for COL OLL and PLL?


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## Godmil (Jun 2, 2011)

If you go through the Alg database in the Wiki, just look for algs that mostly use LUR, then if you're holding COL that will become URD which is very nice for finger tricks. The best N perms are done like that.


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## Georgeanderre (Jun 2, 2011)

I used to do COL when i first switched to cfop because i was ex Roux and most of that is RU gen but it felt a little wierd and im ahsamed to say i did cross on d, but thats all in the past now as im trying out L2LK, which does have fl on left thankfully


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## DavidWoner (Jun 2, 2011)

DRAGON_RYU said:


> HI.
> I'm a COL solver on F2L and cross.
> Are there any algorithms for COL OLL and PLL?


 
I don't know of a list anywhere. You'll have to take existing algs and rotate them. F R U R' U' F' -> y2 z F' U' R' U R F etc.

I'd recommend taking RUF algs and mirroring them into LUF, then doing a z rotation so LUF becomes URF (respectively).


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## Kirjava (Jun 2, 2011)

DRAGON_RYU said:


> HI.
> I'm a COL solver on F2L and cross.
> Are there any algorithms for COL OLL and PLL?


 
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?708-A-Collection-of-Algorithms&p=495021#post495021


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## emolover (Jun 2, 2011)

Yeaa!!!! Cross on left solver here!


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## Erzz (Jun 2, 2011)

Cross on Right solver here. Who is the fastest COR?


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## DRAGON_RYU (Jun 3, 2011)

kirjava, can't you make the rest?


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## Xishem (Jun 3, 2011)

DRAGON_RYU said:


> kirjava, can't you make the rest?


 
http://kociemba.org/cube.htm

Here you go.


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## MrIndianTeen (Jun 3, 2011)

I used to do cross on right because I'm a leftie......


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## JonnyWhoopes (Jun 3, 2011)

MrIndianTeen said:


> I used to do cross on right because I'm a leftie......


 
Cross on left generally benefits right hand dominant cubers more than "leftie's".


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## DavidWoner (Jun 3, 2011)

Yeah that's why he said he did cross on right...


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## DRAGON_RYU (Jun 3, 2011)

What am I supposed to do with CE 5.00?
I seriously don't understand it.


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## Kirjava (Jun 3, 2011)

Try reading the documentation?


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## DRAGON_RYU (Jun 3, 2011)

But it's so long!!


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## OMGitsSolved (Jun 3, 2011)

DRAGON_RYU said:


> What am I supposed to do with CE 5.00?
> I seriously don't understand it.


 
You make algs.


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## DRAGON_RYU (Jun 3, 2011)

I mean I don't understand how.


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## aronpm (Jun 3, 2011)

DRAGON_RYU said:


> I mean I don't understand how.


 


Kirjava said:


> Try reading the documentation?



Try reading the documentation.


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## Xishem (Jun 3, 2011)

DRAGON_RYU said:


> I mean I don't understand how.


 
Setup a case on the cube on the right, leaving only one cubie completely blank, then hit "generate and solve".


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## JonnyWhoopes (Jun 3, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> Yeah that's why he said he did cross on right...


 
OSH...


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## macky (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm preparing a COL page. Some less-known tricks adopted from COD:
UwR2U2'R'U2R'Uw' / Uw'R2U2'RU2'RUw
U'RU'R2'U2'RU2'RU2' / (R)UR2'UR'URU'R2'U'
UR'UR2U2R'U2R'U2 / (R')U'R2U'RU'R'UR2U
Uw'RUR'U'R'Uw / UwR'U'RURUw'
Uw'RUwR2Uw'R'Uw / UwR'Uw'R2UwRUw'

Is there anyone fast inserting on D?


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 24, 2011)

Macky's page, btw.

Also,
I wish I could look at more pieces while doing COL.
Doing pairs feel *significantly* nicer and I execute them faster, but finding the pairs sucks.

I know 'cross on left' implies a generic way to hold the cube, but are there any weird half-rotations you all do to see more?


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## Erzz (Aug 24, 2011)

StachuK1992 said:


> Also,
> I wish I could look at more pieces while doing COL.
> Doing pairs feel *significantly* nicer and I execute them faster, but finding the pairs sucks.


 
You can see the same amount as cross on D. If you do half y rotations to see stuff when you do cross on D, do half x rotations or half l turns with COL. You just have to get used to it I guess.


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## DavidWoner (Aug 25, 2011)

macky said:


> I'm preparing a COL page. Some less-known tricks adopted from COD:
> 
> Is there anyone fast inserting on D?



I have seen Sergey, Tomasz, and Ravi all do it. I do it very rarely though I've been meaning to incorporate it more. The development of left ring for both D and D' has made it a lot more viable than it was in previous years.

Edit: I should clarify that I've only seen it for 3-move inserts, I haven't seen anyone do something like D R' D' R2 D R' D' though with a decent amount of practice it should be manageable to do things like that. If people can do Eperm in .7x I don't see why this can't be done.


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## Cyrus C. (Aug 25, 2011)

I too do 3 move inserts with D. When it gets to cases where 7-ish moves are necessary, I generally find it easier to just do an x and pair with RU. Inserting with D really seems to help my lookahead though.


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## DavidWoner (Nov 29, 2011)

F' R U R' U' R' F

I've avoided learning this WVLL for so long and I have no idea why I never noticed this before.


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## Lucas Garron (Nov 30, 2011)

DavidWoner said:


> F' R U R' U' R' F
> 
> I've avoided learning this WVLL for so long and I have no idea why I never noticed this before.



Even cooler: It works for 3 AUFs. No need to think about it when you get this case.

F' R U R' U' R' Fz'
F' R U R2 U' R' Fz'
F' R U R U' R' Fz'


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## hkpnkp (Mar 12, 2016)

Which is the best Cross on left solve caught in camera ?


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## penguinz7 (May 1, 2016)

hkpnkp said:


> Which is the best Cross on left solve caught in camera ?


I'm a bit late, but here's a sub-8. 
I wouldn't be suprised it there was faster though.


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## Isaac Lai (May 1, 2016)

hkpnkp said:


> Which is the best Cross on left solve caught in camera ?


Sergey Ryabko is a former European Champion who uses cross on left. He has an official 6.86.

Here's a 6.10 single


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## Shiv3r (May 5, 2016)

would it be possible to generate last layer algs for COL users?


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## shadowslice e (May 5, 2016)

Shiv3r said:


> would it be possible to generate last layer algs for COL users?



Yes; use cube explorer.


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## Berd (May 5, 2016)

Shiv3r said:


> would it be possible to generate last layer algs for COL users?



Surely you'd rotate?!


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## Teoidus (May 6, 2016)

Just put a z' in front of all the ones that you have now :b


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