# Age vs Speed



## Rune (Nov 8, 2010)

I can´t find that these highly interesting curves have been discussed anywhere. Have I missed something?
http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/misc/age_vs_speed.html
(The right end of 3x3x3 isn´t quite correct).


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 8, 2010)

Hey, those are nice! It's kind of fun that I have my own personal spots on most of those graphs (maybe all but 3x3x3??), right around the 47 to 49 age range.


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## Stefan (Nov 8, 2010)

You haven't missed a discussion, I added those only recently and wanted to optimize/automate updating before mentioning them here. What's wrong with the right end of 3x3x3?


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## Rune (Nov 8, 2010)

Stefan said:


> You haven't missed a discussion, I added those only recently and wanted to optimize/automate updating before mentioning them here. What's wrong with the right end of 3x3x3?



It ends at age 80.


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## Kenneth (Nov 8, 2010)

Mike, I'm pretty sure I got 2x2 and Master, but the rest is you, Ton, Lars or Guus I guess.

Checked it, you have a better single than I in 2x2 but my average is better than yours. I'm better in Master and weird, we got the same marks for both single and average in Magic 

Edit, I can and will get you in Pyra, my competition times is not near what I usally gets at home.


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## Stefan (Nov 8, 2010)

Rune said:


> It ends at age 80.


 
Not really. It ends at... about 49.56 seconds. I didn't cut off the age axis, but I did cut off the result axis. The remaining records are simply way above the chart, you can see the curves leave through the top. If I scaled it so that even Yongchao Wang's 6:52.57 would fit into it, then the whole curve would be very flat and that would not be good. So I scaled it so that the upper limit is seven times the best result. Why factor 7? Well, because that's the smallest integer where I can still see *your* records.


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## StachuK1992 (Nov 8, 2010)

What?
I thought Feliks was at least 15 or 16.

Gah!


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## Rune (Nov 8, 2010)

Stefan said:


> Not really. It ends at... about 49.56 seconds. I didn't cut off the age axis, but I did cut off the result axis. The remaining records are simply way above the chart, you can see the curves leave through the top. If I scaled it so that even Yongchao Wang's 6:52.57 would fit into it, then the whole curve would be very flat and that would not be good. So I scaled it so that the upper limit is seven times the best result. Why factor 7? Well, because that's the smallest integer where I can still see *your* records.



Yes, yes. I saw it to late for editing my post. You are too considerate, Stefan!


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## Stefan (Nov 8, 2010)

Rune said:


> You are too considerate, Stefan!


 
No, you're too fast 

With your times around 40 seconds, there's no reason to not have you in there. I'd also like to include the even older guys, but sadly they're just too damn slow.


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## Pyjam (Nov 9, 2010)

On the stats page, it would be interesting to see the number of speedcubers per age or per slice of ages. For a good reason, birthdates aren’t in the files available for download.


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## Kenneth (Nov 9, 2010)

Not all birthdates are in the base either, aspecially for those who have not been to a comp in some years, before the auto registration at WCA you had to send a mail to the organiser and it was not standard procedure to ask for your age.


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## Rinfiyks (Nov 9, 2010)

It looks like younger people are faster, but there are just more of them.
What I would like to see is the average average of all the ages (i.e., take all averages from an age group and average them, for all age groups).


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## Dene (Nov 9, 2010)

So really what it tells is is that really old people and really young people are slow.


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## Lucas Garron (Nov 9, 2010)

Dene said:


> So really what it tells is is that really old people and really young people are slow.



Not entirely:




And apart from that, it's probably still not easy to prove it has to do with pure age; social factors are pretty important.


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## Pyjam (Nov 9, 2010)

Thank you Lucas.


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## Dene (Nov 10, 2010)

Yes well of course there is that. Still no proof otherwise though.


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## Rune (Nov 11, 2010)

I would say, the really old (of to-day) MUST be (relatively) slow. He was 50 or more, when the cube appeared. At that age you can´t make your technique perfect. Let us see after 30 years or so...


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## ElectricDoodie (Nov 15, 2010)

*Speed VS Age?*

Do you think there's a relation to how fast someone can become, depending on how old they are? 

I mean, it seems like most people who are sub15 usually fall under their 20s, with a few exceptions. But I mean, most people who are fast, and are in the top 100 AVG and Single, are usually under 20.

I'm just wondering if there's a reason for this. Maybe because they have more free-time to practice? Maybe because there are more teens interested in speedcubing than adults?

Or is it something that has more to do with their capabilities? Are teens and younger more capable to become extremely fast? As people become older, do they lose the possibility of becoming sub10? Can adults just not learn and use the practice as well as a teen? Is there something inherently holding them back from being sub10?

I'm just wondering if there's a relation of the amount of people in the top 100 being teens.

In the end, should someone who is 30 years-old give up their dream of becoming sub10, one day?

P.S. Not talking about myself. I'm not 30.


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## flan (Nov 15, 2010)

There are graphs for this on the wca site somewhere


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## Diniz (Nov 15, 2010)

Adults just have a lot of thing to worry about.. work, wife, kids its really hard to practice properly in this conditions... And another motive is probably the lose of interest in those things when you are an adult..


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## ElectricDoodie (Nov 15, 2010)

flan said:


> There are graphs for this on the wca site somewhere


 
I saw the graph, which is what got me interested on why there are more fast teens than adults.
The graph doesn't explain why.




Diniz said:


> Adults just have a lot of thing to worry about.. work, wife, kids its really hard to practice properly in this conditions... And another motive is probably the lose of interest in those things when you are an adult..


 
This is also the same reasoning I'm using.


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## That70sShowDude (Nov 15, 2010)

I think that your fingers cannot move as fast as you grow older. 
Does anyone know any examples of this?
Maybe someone that has gotten slower over time as an adult?


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## anders (Nov 15, 2010)

This topic has already been discussed at www.speedsolving.com


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## Nestor (Nov 15, 2010)

I started cubing at 31, got into 30" avg after 9 months. A couple of teen friends got the same avg in less than 2 months. Then again, social factors relative to age play a role in determining how much effort and time you invest into cubing.

I also think physical and neurological factors need to be taken into account as well.. as you age developing a neurological structure to deal efficiently with new skills gets harder, and dexterity decays.


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## Mike Hughey (Nov 15, 2010)

I do think there's a difference for older people. Even though other people are correct that I spend more time on BLD solving than I do on speedsolving, it's still true that I put a pretty fair amount of practice in on 3x3x3 speedsolving, and yet I make very slow progress. It's pretty obvious that younger people (like most of you here) make quicker progress with speedsolving than I do, per hour of practice. Yet I make progress on BLD solving just as fast or faster per hour of practice as the average person. So there appears to be something about speedsolving in particular that is harder for me.

I acknowledge that it could be that I'm practicing incorrectly - I often wonder if that's the problem. But really, it seems as if it just takes me longer to have new algorithms or ideas get set in muscle memory. With BLD solving, muscle memory isn't quite as important, so it's okay that I react a little more slowly - I only lose a few seconds, which isn't that bad on BLD solving. But on speedsolving, that few seconds is a significant percentage of the total time.

I don't think the issue is dexterity - I'm reasonably quick, and with my regular practice playing piano and juggling, I'm sure my finger dexterity is equal to most twenty-year-olds.

Honestly, I don't think anyone can really know the answer to this - it's too hard to measure. But I do know that I'm really struggling at trying to improve with speedsolving. It's just really really hard for me to improve.


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## Cube-Fu (Nov 15, 2010)

Martial artists often grow into their fastest reactions, an un-fettered mind is key, I feel.


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## ElectricDoodie (Nov 16, 2010)

UnAbusador said:


> I started cubing at 31, got into 30" avg after 9 months. A couple of teen friends got the same avg in less than 2 months. Then again, social factors relative to age play a role in determining how much effort and time you invest into cubing.
> 
> I also think physical and neurological factors need to be taken into account as well.. as you age developing a neurological structure to deal efficiently with new skills gets harder, and dexterity decays.


 
This would be interesting to do. Gather information on people's ages, and how long it took them to become sub30. This still wouldn't help understand if it was coming from a mental factor, or just because the person has more priorities than spending too much time on cubing.

Also, I'm 23, and I got to sub30 in 4-5 months.
I was using the Beginner's Method, and averaging 1 minute. After 4-5 months, I was sub30.


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## Cubezz (Nov 16, 2010)

Cube-Fu said:


> Martial artists often grow into their fastest reactions, an un-fettered mind is key, I feel.


 
Yea, but cubing requires faster finger movement, while martial artists need faster body movement. Give Bruce Lee a cube and I don't think he will get high TPS 
But really, I think since adults have to worry about jobs, kids, etc, they get less practice, and so that affects their times.


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## cmhardw (Nov 16, 2010)

Thread mergification has just occurred.


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## waffle=ijm (Nov 16, 2010)

Mergification is such awesome word, Chris. Just saying


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## David Zemdegs (Nov 16, 2010)

The Age vs Speed needs to be updated....again


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## Kenneth (Nov 16, 2010)

fazdad said:


> The Age vs Speed needs to be updated....again


 
Stefan told me he is working on automation, guess we have to wait for that.


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