# V Perms: z (U' R D R' U R U') (R D' R' U R2' D R2 D')



## Mollerz (Jan 6, 2012)

Robert-Y found some super nice V Perms, that are modifications of an old one. You can execute it in a similar fashion to an E-Perm, seemingly it would be extremely fast. Take your pick!

z (D' R2 D R2) (U R' D' R U') (R U R' D R U')
U' R2 U R2 D R' U' R D' R D R' U R D'
z (U' R D R' U R U') (R D' R' U R2' D R2 D')

Video of how I execute the first one:


Spoiler











The chat leading upto it's discovery:


Spoiler



[16:54:25] <+statue> What V perm do people use?
[16:54:46] <+RobertY> R' U R' U' etc,
[16:55:02] <+Mollerz> Ya use that one
[16:55:06] <+statue> ,wiki PLL
[16:55:06] <+Nibblr> http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php?search=PLL&go=Go
[16:55:07] <+Mollerz> The one that ends with F
[16:55:08] <+Mollerz> Not my **** one
[16:55:11] <+aronpm> R'UR'd' same thing
[16:55:33] <+MLSTRM> I dont
[16:55:34] <+statue> I use R' U R' d' thing
[16:55:35] <+MLSTRM> 
[16:55:37] <+MLSTRM> lol
[16:55:39] <+statue> I hate hate hate it
[16:56:23] <+MLSTRM> I use this: [R' U2 R U2][L U' R' U][L' U L U'][R U L']
[16:56:51] <+statue> that's disgusting
[16:56:54] <+statue> so much switching
[16:57:00] <+RobertY> I just had an idea...
[16:57:13] <+statue> shoot
[16:57:13] <BacktickEddie> i finally got enough iron i mine crfur
[16:57:30] <+RobertY> :O
[16:57:31] <+RobertY> wait
[16:57:37] <+statue> ?!
[16:58:18] <+RobertY> (R' U2 R U2) z (U R' D' R U') (R U R' D R U')
[16:58:21] <+RobertY> feels kinda nice
[16:59:02] <+MLSTRM> :O
[16:59:04] <+MLSTRM> that is nice
[16:59:13] <+statue> damn
[16:59:16] <+statue> very very nice
[16:59:39] <+statue> yeah I'm switching, unless I magically find something better on acube within the next few minutes
[16:59:47] <+MLSTRM> its not bad by doing the Z at the start eithetr
[17:00:09] <+statue> ooh
[17:00:11] <+Mollerz> **** me that is godly
[17:00:16] <+Mollerz> Learning that
[17:00:19] <+MLSTRM> 
[17:00:22] <+MLSTRM> ish
[17:00:23] <+MLSTRM> I win
[17:00:34] <+Mollerz> ok for OH too
[17:00:38] <+Mollerz> I like mine more
[17:00:45] <+statue> z (D' R2 D R2) (U R' D' R U') (R U R' D R U')
[17:01:50] <+statue> maybe a x2 from there might be nice, too
[17:01:09] <+statue> U' R2 U R2 D R' U' R D' R D R' U R D' 
[17:01:24] <+statue> yeah
[17:01:40] <+MLSTRM> yah
[17:01:42] <+MLSTRM> that one
[17:01:57] <+RobertY> this not bad either:
[17:02:15] <+statue> RobertY: I really like the x2 from that place
[17:03:03] <+RobertY> z (U' R D R' U R U') (R D' R' U R2' D R2 D')
[17:03:24] <+MLSTRM> o inverse
[17:03:33] <+RobertY> nope
[17:03:34] <+Jostle> woah that's really good
[17:03:36] <+RobertY> mirror inverse


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## Jaycee (Jan 6, 2012)

SWEET. I've been looking for a new VPerm for a long time!

Only 3 things : 

I can't find a smooth way to do the rotation with pausing.
I sometimes accidentally execute the D' as D because with this alg I pull the D' with my left ring finger pushing on LDB.
I sometimes accidentally do an R move at the end because it feels natural.

At least all of these will be fixed with practice. 

EDIT : These were at the first one but with R' U2 R U2 z at the beginning like Robert had found.


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## Mollerz (Jan 6, 2012)

Here's a video of how I would execute it. There are no regrips, executed very similarly to the E Perm. Definitely sub-1able in my opinion, the "fast" version at the end is just to show it runs smoothly.






EDIT: Better video


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## MaeLSTRoM (Jan 6, 2012)

Execution Vid: (Yeah I know, i uploaded it second. whatever.)


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## MeshuggahX (Jan 6, 2012)

I like the first one. I only need one regrip. And the last part is the same last part as my J-perm. It' reallyt nice.


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## MostEd (Jan 6, 2012)

[16:57:13] <BacktickEddie> i finally got enough iron i mine crfur
LOL comment 

ooh this is gold, haven't learnt the V yet....


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## Diniz (Jan 6, 2012)

The first one is the OH Vperm that a lot of people use.... (this video show it for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpiaEf2arnY) the other ones just come from it, so nothing new..


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## Ickenicke (Jan 6, 2012)

First one is perferct

I hate the "Standard V-perm"


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## yoinneroid (Jan 6, 2012)

R U' L' U R' U' R U' L U R' U2 r' F2 r

lol, i just had the z rotation, anyway, i'll still use the 'regular' one, unless i'm too lazy to do a y2 

(btw, isn't the alg just niklas and another anti-sune CLL with a little cancellation? :S)


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## jskyler91 (Jan 6, 2012)

AMAZING!!!!!!!! I have been struggling to get my old v perm sub 1.5, but i can already see this one being sub 1


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## chrissyD (Jan 6, 2012)

Can barely sub 2 the first one but I think that is because my cube is loose. Still faster than my current alg none the less


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## emolover (Jan 6, 2012)

That last one is too sexy! I know this will be the next alg I learn.


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## qqwref (Jan 6, 2012)

I could generate one of this type with only two D moves, if you guys want.


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## Jaycee (Jan 6, 2012)

^ Winning.


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## emolover (Jan 6, 2012)

qqwref said:


> I could generate one of this type with only two D moves, if you guys want.


 
If its fingertrickable.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 6, 2012)

qqwref said:


> I could generate one of this type with only two D moves, if you guys want.


 
lets see it.


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## qqwref (Jan 6, 2012)

z U' R U2 R' D' R U' R' D U' R' U R2 U' R2 U
z U' R2 U R2 U' R D' U R U R' D R U2 R' U


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## jskyler91 (Jan 6, 2012)

qqwref said:


> z U' R U2 R' D' R U' R' D U' R' U R2 U' R2 U
> z U' R2 U R2 U' R D' U R U R' D R U2 R' U


 
These seem a little unwieldy in terms of fingertricking. I can do the original alg with no extra regrips besides the initial z, these seem to need at least one regrip. Also they are a little longer (+1). Thanks though, I will play with these for a bit.


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## Jaycee (Jan 6, 2012)

qqwref said:


> z U' R U2 R' D' R U' R' D U' R' U R2 U' R2 U
> z U' R2 U R2 U' R D' U R U R' D R U2 R' U


 
Dude. You are awesome! 
I can't decide which I like better. (Yes I know they're inverses)

EDIT :


jskyler91 said:


> These seem a little unwieldy in terms of fingertricking.


 
I do them both with no regrips ._.


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## StachuK1992 (Jan 6, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> These seem a little unwieldy in terms of fingertricking. I can do the original alg with no extra regrips besides the initial z, these seem to need at least one regrip. Also they are a little longer (+1). Thanks though, I will play with these for a bit.


 They're both no-grip friendly, but the second one more so.
Thanks, qq.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 6, 2012)

StachuK1992 said:


> They're both no-grip friendly, but the second one more so.
> Thanks, qq.


 
how do you start your hands?

Edit: I see how the second one can be done, but it still seems awkward and less fluid then the original



Jaycee said:


> Dude. You are awesome!
> I can't decide which I like better. (Yes I know they're inverses)
> 
> EDIT :
> ...


 
Are you starting at home grip or another grip? Because I consider the cube rotation a regrip in itself and then any regrip you do after, such as starting in split grip would be another one


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## Jaycee (Jan 6, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> how do you start your hands?





qqwref said:


> z U' R U2 R' D' R U' R' D U' R' U R2 U' R2 U


 
After the z

Left thumb and middle finger on F and B centers, index finger in place to U'
Right hand in place to turn R layer, thumb on DR, next 3 fingers on URD, UR, and URU (I think I have those sticker names wrong.)
EDIT : I think this is the "home grip" you meant, no?

(U' R U2 R') -Fairly easy
(D' R U' R' D U') - push with left ring finger for D' left index and ring fingers for D and U'. R U' R' is easy.
(R' U R2 U' R2 U) - This is probably where you needed to regrip. Turn R' with your whole hand, push with left index for U, wrist turns for both R2s and push with left index for U. 

This probably sucks in terms of how good the explanation is but it works somewhat well. The wristy turns in the last trigger are uncomfortable at first.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 6, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> After the z
> 
> Left thumb and middle finger on F and B centers, index finger in place to U'
> Right hand in place to turn R layer, thumb on DR, next 3 fingers on URD, UR, and URU (I think I have those sticker names wrong.)
> ...


 
I call home grip the grip the way you naturally hold the cube i.e. with thumbs on front, ring and middle on back and index hovering next to U layer. What you described sound like split grip, or when your left hand is normal, but your right hand is as if you just did an R' from the above mentioned grip. I consider this a regrip because it takes extra time to reach this stage, more so than it does homegrip. I tried your fingering and it works, but try the first alg on the home page from home grip doing a R2' to start and pulling on the Us. The execution is very solid and shorter. Maybe it is just me, but I like it better.

Edit: how fast is yours, because I have the original 1.5 already. I can't even sub 2 yours very often


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## Jaycee (Jan 6, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Edit: how fast is yours, because I have the original 1.5 already. I can't even sub 2 yours very often


 
I'm slow at PLL execution compared to you  From today

I 've been using the R' U R' U' alg for 8 months and I still don't sub-2 it. Maybe someone who is your speed should test them!


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## Tim Major (Jan 6, 2012)

tbh I prefer the other V-perm. It's one of my favourite PLLs  (R' U R' U')


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jan 6, 2012)

And just as I find an execution for the standard that I was happy with. I'll try these out and see how it goes. Also, I think the inverse of the standard alg is good: F' R' F' R U' R U R2' F R U F U' F, no regrips for me, I don't know why it isn't more popular.


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## Litz (Jan 6, 2012)

I know about 10 V perms since it's my worst PLL so I might as well learn a few more. The one I use is fast but has a few rotations so I can't sub 1.5 it. I'll practice the second one since I can do it somewhat fast right now (z U' R2 U R2 D R' U' R D' R D R' U R D') and time it once I'm used to it.

Thanks for the algorithms.


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## SimonWestlund (Jan 7, 2012)

My V perm went from 1.27 to 0.91 today  Thanks a lot guys!


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## StachuK1992 (Jan 7, 2012)

Which one are you using? I can't decide, and .91 sounds really really nice. Mine went from ~2.2 to 1.4


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## SimonWestlund (Jan 7, 2012)

z (D' R2 D R2) (U R' D' R U') (R U R' D R U')

This one. Suits me amazingly well


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## DYGH.Tjen (Jan 7, 2012)

SimonWestlund said:


> z (D' R2 D R2) (U R' D' R U') (R U R' D R U')
> 
> This one. Suits me amazingly well


 I like it too! Thanks to all the people who found these variations!  RUD ftw!! :3


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## Godmil (Jan 7, 2012)

Cool, can't wait to try these out, hate the old V-perm. Wee question though, for the people saying they are faster at these algs... Is that taking into account the cube rotation at the beginning?


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## jskyler91 (Jan 7, 2012)

Godmil said:


> Cool, can't wait to try these out, hate the old V-perm. Wee question though, for the people saying they are faster at these algs... Is that taking into account the cube rotation at the beginning?


 
For me it isn't, but I tend to take my hand off of the cube after oll to prepare for possible z's and so I do the rotation as I put my hand on the cube so it only takes an extra .2 or so seconds....


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## DYGH.Tjen (Jan 7, 2012)

Godmil said:


> Cool, can't wait to try these out, hate the old V-perm. Wee question though, for the people saying they are faster at these algs... Is that taking into account the cube rotation at the beginning?


 
A z is faster than a y, or an x, I suppose.  negligible speed? Idk.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 7, 2012)

SimonWestlund said:


> My V perm went from 1.27 to 0.91 today  Thanks a lot guys!


 
Could you show me a vid of you sub 1ing it? I would really like to see your fingering/ that just sounds awesome.


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## DYGH.Tjen (Jan 7, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> Could you show me a vid of you sub 1ing it? I would really like to see your fingering/ that just sounds awesome.


 
Hi jskyler, here's a video of Christopher Olson doing it. He's pretty good as well. Basically he does it like OP except he does R2' first then R2, and he doesn't use left index for the U at the end, but uses the right index.


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## rubiksarlen (Jan 7, 2012)

someone discover a new g perm please..


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## Jaycee (Jan 7, 2012)

G Perms aren't that hard. It's just than when people see some sort of picture describing what it does they think it's harder than it really is. My G Perms are about the same speed as my Y Perm and old V Perm. The algs are pretty easy to execute. 

Example :






All the arrows make it look more difficult than it is.

What we really need is a new F Perm. >.<


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## CuberMan (Jan 7, 2012)

I don't really like it, seems like I will stick with the R' U R' d' one.
EDIT: just got 1.38 with your first algo, just as fast as executing the old V perm. But I think I'll just use that algo for OH.


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## cubernya (Jan 7, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> G Perms aren't that hard. It's just than when people see some sort of picture describing what it does they think it's harder than it really is. My G Perms are about the same speed as my Y Perm and old V Perm. The algs are pretty easy to execute.
> 
> Example :
> 
> ...


 I use FAZ's F-perm anc love it. It's a <R,U,F> alg with no rotations or weird moves, and a sexy ending (at least the way I do it)


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## DYGH.Tjen (Jan 7, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> What we really need is a new F Perm. >.<





Jaycee said:


> F Perm (R' U2 R' U' x z' l' U R' U' l R U' R' U l U' F) - *2.50 with 2.54 single*


Hi Jaycee, have you tried this F-perm? R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R. Flows pretty nice imo. :O
EDIT: Basically R' U' F' to set it up into a T-perm, with cancellations. R' U' F' (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' *F'*) *F* U R


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## jskyler91 (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks for the vid man.


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## jskyler91 (Jan 7, 2012)

I just found an awesome way to execute this alg. I perform it like the sexy j perm. My alg is R' U2 R z R2 U R' D' R U' R U R' D R U'


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## MWilson (Jan 7, 2012)

I use R U' R U R' D R D' R U' D R2' U R2 D' R2'. You don't need a rotation (z) before or during and it flows extremely well. Use left hand pinky to do the first R and then left index the U'. While doing those, rotate your right hand 90º CCW to set up for the R U R'. Then D with left hand ring, R D' R with right hand. Do the U' D at the same time with left hand while adjusting right hand 90º CW for the R2' U. Your left hand ring will already be poised to push the D' for the finish. Ending with an R2' makes all the AUFs very fast and easy. It's easy to pre-AUF as well if you start the alg how I said.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jan 7, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> I just found an awesome way to execute this alg. I perform it like the sexy j perm. My alg is R' U2 R z R2 U R' D' R U' R U R' D R U'


 
Funny, I'm now doing a similar thing, only mirrored. R U2' R' z R2 U' R D R' U R' U' R D' R' U. Think I like that the best out of the new possibilities but I need to practice it and my old ones and see which one is fastest.

Edit: R U2' R' z *R2'* U' R D R' U R' U' R D' R' U


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## Jostle (Jan 7, 2012)

SimonWestlund said:


> z (D' R2 D R2) (U R' D' R U') (R U R' D R U')
> 
> This one. Suits me amazingly well


 
Care to make a vid of execution?


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## kashyap7x (Jan 7, 2012)

Jostle said:


> Care to make a vid of execution?


 
There's one on the first page of there thread. There are 2 actually.


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## Jostle (Jan 7, 2012)

kashyap7x said:


> There's one on the first page of there thread. There are 2 actually.


 
His execution... I want to know if he just turns fast or if he has awesome finger tricks, or both.


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## teller (Jan 7, 2012)

jskyler91 said:


> I just found an awesome way to execute this alg. I perform it like the sexy j perm. My alg is R' U2 R z R2 U R' D' R U' R U R' D R U'


 
I like this...hides the z and flows for me.

Also found this variation for different AUF:

*z D' R U R' D R D' R U' R' D R2 U R2 U' *


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## sa11297 (Jan 7, 2012)

omg, there are way too many to choose from. Somebody that knows a little about executing pll's fast figure out which one or two is probably the fastest for 2H and OH, please.


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## Jaycee (Jan 7, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> omg, there are way too many to choose from. Somebody that knows a little about executing pll's fast figure out which one or two is probably the fastest for 2H and OH, please.


 
Depends on person :3

EDIT :


DYGH.Tjen said:


> Hi Jaycee, have you tried this F-perm? R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R. Flows pretty nice imo. :O
> EDIT: Basically R' U' F' to set it up into a T-perm, with cancellations. R' U' F' (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' *F'*) *F* U R


 
Thank you very much. I'm switching to this.


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## drewsopchak (Jan 7, 2012)

the first one is just the one-handed alg on it's side... ive been using it for a while.


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## timeless (Jan 8, 2012)

MeshuggahX said:


> I like the first one. I only need one regrip. And the last part is the same last part as my J-perm. It' reallyt nice.


 
i keep doing 2 regrips after R' and U'


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## Ickenicke (Mar 24, 2012)

I played around with the second one and found this alg : R U' r' F R' F' R F' r U R' U2 r' F2 r 

I execute it more like: R U' r' F l' U' R U' r B R' x' U2 r' F2 r 

Do you think this alg can be nice?


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## StachuK1992 (Mar 24, 2012)

I find that disgusting - I can't even figure out a way to make it feel nicer.


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## soldii3runit (Apr 5, 2012)

try my v-perm. i Found it extremely easy to learN. 

L' U R U' L U L' U R' U' L U2 R U2 R'

This alg reminds me of an alg you learN from the beginners method. just follow your bottom color. 

hold the cube where the backleftis solved


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## Ickathu (Apr 5, 2012)

soldii3runit said:


> *L' U R U' L U L' U R' L U2 R U2 R'*


 
should be L' U R U' L U L' U R' *U'*L U2 R U2 R'


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## soldii3runit (Apr 5, 2012)

yea sorry -_- thnx for catching that


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## Cubemaestro (Jun 11, 2013)

my friend uses this v perm- and i found it very fast !
R2 U' B2 U B2 R D' R D R' U R U' R
Its easy to learn and fast to execute ? check it out people! 
PS First do it on a solved cube and you'll get the position as i cant describe how to hold the cube 
FAZ'S f perm is darn fast, i love this alg


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## Username (Jun 11, 2013)

Cubemaestro said:


> my friend uses this v perm- and i found it very fast !
> R2 U' B2 U B2 R D' R D R' U R U' R
> Its easy to learn and fast to execute ? check it out people!
> PS First do it on a solved cube and you'll get the position as i cant describe how to hold the cube
> FAZ'S f perm is darn fast, i love this alg



I say no bacause (B2)x2


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## YddEd (Jun 11, 2013)

Username said:


> I say no bacause (B2)x2


Actually this alg can be pretty fast if you do it right imo.


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## DavidCubie (Jun 11, 2013)

This V perm is awesome, but im too lazy to learn it...


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## Robert-Y (Jun 11, 2013)

So after looking at that for a minute, I found this: R' U R' U' x2 R U' R' U R' F2 u' R2 u R2'

lol...


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## qqwref (Jun 11, 2013)

Cubemaestro said:


> R2 U' B2 U B2 R D' R D R' U R U' R


R2 d' R2 U R2 y' R D' R D R' U R U' R

And, wow.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 11, 2013)

Cubemaestro said:


> R2 U' B2 U B2 R D' R D R' U R U' R



I've been hating my V perm so much lately, so I decided to try learning it, and I like it this way. I have a little trouble with the first U (I push it with my left forefinger), but overall it's way better than my old algorithm.

So anyway, I then started doing timed solves (scrambles from CCT), and would you believe my next three solves were all V perms? (Odds: 1 in 5832?) I couldn't have asked for better practice! So cool.

(And qq, I just tried yours and it does seem to fix my problem nicely; I may have to switch to that.)


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## Chree (Jun 11, 2013)

qqwref said:


> R2 d' R2 U R2 y' R D' R D R' U R U' R
> 
> And, wow.



That feels... delicious.


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## guythatlikesOH (Jun 11, 2013)

I made this one for OH: R’ U2 R U2 (z) U R’ D’ R U’ R U R’ D R U’ 
It's just another V-Perms I found, but I made it so a few moves are done before the rotation.


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## antoineccantin (Jun 11, 2013)

guythatlikesOH said:


> I made this one for OH: R’ U2 R U2 (z) U R’ D’ R U’ R U R’ D R U’
> It's just another V-Perms I found, but I made it so a few moves are done before the rotation.



That's what I've always used.


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## Petro Leum (Jun 11, 2013)

i always use the one in the title.


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## CubezUBR (Jun 24, 2013)

why not just do a u' and a y instead of d, it makes the alg flow and faster
(for me)


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## yockee (Jun 24, 2013)

I love my V perm. There are practically no regrips that stop you from moving something, if you do it right, even though there are some scary looking rotations when written.

R' U R' U' y x2 R' U R' U' l R U' R' U R U

Do it like this: First 4 moves as you normally would, but start to do the y rotation as you're doing the 4th move (U') without removing your hands from the cube. At this point, your right hand should be holding the cube with your 4 fingers on U and thumb on D, and your left hand with palm on B, fingers on R and thumb on L. Still holding the cube like this, tilt the cube back (x) to start the x2 and remove your left hand to reposition. Instead of finishing the x2, stop at x and grip l with your left hand, and do the second 4 moves starting out as l U R' U' instead of R' U R' U'. Then finish.


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## Ranzha (Jun 24, 2013)

Dominate said:


> I use R U' R U R' D R D' R U' D R2' U R2 D' R2'.



I, too, use (R U' R U R') (D R D') (R [U' D]) (R2' U R2 D' R2).

I perform the alg in a very similar fashion, but with slight variance namely in the beginning few moves.

Here's how I do it:

*(R U' R U R')* - Start with right middle on FR, right thumb on BR, as if to do R2 clockwise. Make the first R turn, let the U' push from left index glide under your right hand grip. Then R U R' as normal.
*(D R D')* - Left ring for D, no right hand regrip for R, D' with either left ring pull or right ring push (whichever you prefer).
*(R U' D)* - No regrip on R, push U' D simultaneously with left index and ring. Now right thumb should be on UR.
*(R2' U R2 D' R2)* - With right thumb on UR and right middle on DR, perform R2', perform U with right ring, R2 clockwise with right hand, D' with either left ring, right middle, or right ring, and final R2 in either direction.

Video:


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## Robert-Y (Jun 24, 2013)

Very impressive! I think I might learn this, it's my worst V perm angle.


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