# Actual CPEOLL



## Kirjava (Jul 17, 2013)

People used to call OLLCP-A "CPEOLL". This is a misnaming - we already have enough of these and I've decided that the subset is obscure enough to easily fix. I have modified the wiki to reflect this.

The actual CPEOLL subset does not preserve corner oprientation. I'm surprised that it doesn't exist yet.

I understand why though. Cubers seem to think that ELS and CPLS are a better way to reach 2GLL than LS and CPEOLL because they are blinded by the strive to find a good system for 1LLL and ignore problems CPLS has to forget that you don't *need* to influence LL during LS.

So just use it as a 2LLL system. Might be good for OH or something, I don't know.

There are 24 cases, you may already know all the algs - the subset can be learnt in under an hour.

Rob helped me find these.


 
















 L' U R U' L U R'R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2



R U R' U' M' U R U' r'U2 r U' r' U' r U r' y' R' U RF R U R' U' F'



U R U R' U' M' U R U' r'U R U R' U' R' F R F'U F R U R' U' F'



U r U2 R' U' R U' r'U' R U2 R' U2 R' F R F'f U R' U' R f'



U r U R' U R U2 r'U2 F' r U r' U' r' F rU F U R U' R' F'



r U R' U R U2 r'F R' F' R U R U' R'F U R U' R' F'



r U2 R' U' R U' r'U' L' U2 L U2 L F' L' FU' F U R U' R' F'



F R U r' U' R U M' R' U' F'F R' F' R2 r' U R U' R' U' M'L' U2 L F R U2 R' F' L' U2 L


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## mark49152 (Jul 17, 2013)

This is great - I was looking for this the other day. If I'm not wrong, there are only 19 cases to learn, given that 6 of the diagonal swaps reduce to 2 through symmetry.


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## yoinneroid (Jul 17, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> This is great - I was looking for this the other day. If I'm not wrong, there are only 19 cases to learn, given that 6 of the diagonal swaps reduce to 2 through symmetry.



Well, you could go with 15 actually


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## mark49152 (Jul 17, 2013)

yoinneroid said:


> Well, you could go with 15 actually


Yes good point. And most of these algs are easy - this is a nice set.


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## TheNextFeliks (Jul 17, 2013)

Nice algos. The ones on the wiki preserve orientation. 

I like the idea of cpeoll. Would be really good for oh IMO since you have 2gll left.


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## Sa967St (Jul 17, 2013)

Kir, what's your opinion on saying OELLCP instead of OLLCP-A?


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## Kirjava (Jul 17, 2013)

Depends on the justification I suppose. I'm having trouble deciphering what it actually means at the moment.

I think it's a bit weird to be giving subsets of actual sets specific names, but I suppose CO solved is a bit different.

I honestly can't think of a better name than OLLCP-A without it being confusing. Don't get me wrong, I tried! A standard naming scheme was also considered.


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## Username (Jul 17, 2013)

Can someone explain what CPEOLL actually does (orients and permutes)


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## Kirjava (Jul 17, 2013)

solves corner permutation and edge orientation in the last layer


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## antoineccantin (Jul 17, 2013)

I saw this a few months ago, but I have a couple issues with it:
- Recognition isn't very good. This combined with sometimes bad 2gll recognition would give many pauses during the last layer.
- Well, I guess that's it.


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## googlebleh (Jul 17, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> People used to call OLLCP-A "CPEOLL". This is a misnaming - we already have enough of these and I've decided that the subset is obscure enough to easily fix. I have modified the wiki to reflect this.
> 
> The actual CPEOLL subset does not preserve corner oprientation. I'm surprised that it doesn't exist yet.



Better amend the Wiki then. It defines OLLCP-A as "The subset [of OLLCP] in which all corners are oriented. Also known as CPEOLL."
http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/OLLCP

Unfortunately, I can't change this 'wiki'. Does a mod have to do it?


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## Kirjava (Jul 17, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> - Recognition isn't very good.



Really? I don't seem to have any problem with it. Maybe using roux makes this much easier for me. It's certainly better than CPLS.



googlebleh said:


> Better amend the Wiki then. It defines OLLCP-A as "The subset [of OLLCP] in which all corners are oriented. Also known as CPEOLL."
> http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/OLLCP



Fixed.


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## StachuK1992 (Jul 17, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> Cubers seem to think that ELS and CPLS are a better way to..


Wait, do people actually use CPLS? Who uses CPLS?

Very cool


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## elrog (Jul 19, 2013)

Anyone who does there research should know the difference, but this just makes it easier for them to find. Great thread.


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## antoineccantin (Nov 7, 2013)

How exactly would you recognize the corner permutation for these? I don't quite know since when I recognize CxLL is don't do it by which pieces it swaps but using colour patterns.


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## Kirjava (Nov 7, 2013)

uhm, personally I just find it intuitive - things just 'look swapped' to me

I guess you can learn which pieces colour patterns are swaps of


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## antoineccantin (Nov 16, 2013)

> f U R' U' R f'



This should be f R U R' U' f'

Also, could I put this on my site with some algs changed, for OH?


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## Kirjava (Nov 20, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> Also, could I put this on my site with some algs changed, for OH?



yeah just write "kirjava is cute" or something with it


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## antoineccantin (Nov 20, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> yeah just write "kirjava is cute" or something with it



Thanks.
https://sites.google.com/site/antoineccantin/oh/cpeoll


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## ChickenWrap (Nov 29, 2013)

I have tried a bunch of these algs and while the idea seems nice, what is the practical application to it? You still get corners that aren't oriented correctly when using these algs...


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## TheNextFeliks (Nov 29, 2013)

ChickenWrap said:


> I have tried a bunch of these algs and while the idea seems nice, what is the practical application to it? You still get corners that aren't oriented correctly when using these algs...



You can use it to get 2gll. Corners aren't supposed to be oriented.


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## Kirjava (Nov 29, 2013)

Complaining that this doesn't orient corners is like complaining that OLL doesn't solve PLL.


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## mark49152 (Nov 29, 2013)

ChickenWrap said:


> I have tried a bunch of these algs and while the idea seems nice, what is the practical application to it? You still get corners that aren't oriented correctly when using these algs...


It solves corner permutation (not orientation) and edge orientation (not permutation). The reason it might be useful is that it leaves you with CO and EP to solve, which is called 2GLL and can be solved using only R and U moves, so has good algs and is fast.

If you want to solve CO as well as EO and CP, that's called OLLCP and has many more cases - I think 300+.


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## rowehessler (Nov 29, 2013)

this is awesome!


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## supercavitation (Mar 5, 2014)

What do people think of this+Non-edge-permuting OCLL+EPLL for a ZZ 3LLL? It gives a good basis for switching to 2GLL, COLL+EPLL, or OLL+PLL. Also, with only two CPEOLL cases for ZZ, recognition is fairly simple, and it only requires two more algs than OCLL+2-Look PLL


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## TDM (Mar 5, 2014)

supercavitation said:


> What do people think of this+Non-edge-permuting OCLL+EPLL for a ZZ 3LLL? It gives a good basis for switching to 2GLL, COLL+EPLL, or OLL+PLL. Also, with only two CPEOLL cases for ZZ, recognition is fairly simple, and it only requires two more algs than OCLL+2-Look PLL


ZZ-porky v1 is a better version of this. CP happens much earlier in the solve, making it a good method for OH because you just spam 2-gen TPS for the second half of the solve without having to regrip later, and because you're not preserving any pieces the algs are much shorter (5 moves).


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## IRNjuggle28 (Mar 10, 2014)

This is the most finger friendly way to solve LL I've seen. Those algs, plus 2GLL? Wow. I'm sure recognition is way harder than OLL/PLL, but... this is actually really nice. 

In addition to OH, this plus 2GLL seems like it might have potential for big cubes? Finger tricking gets a lot harder with 6x6 and 7x7, and sacrificing some recognition for awesome execution might be worth it. Having a 2 gen last step would be great; having to regrip constantly for anything <L,U,R> sucks. Of course, some of these algs would have to be modified. Some of them have M, r, and l. Don't see 6L/6R/M happening on a 7x7.


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## Shiv3r (Jul 13, 2016)

even though Im a rouxer, Im considering switching my OH method to COL CF(OP not really), which is almost all 2-gen, and then CPEOLL and then probably some kind of 21LL for 2gll(probably corner orientation preserving edges and then edge permutation)


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## alwin5b (Nov 19, 2017)

Isn't CPEOLL + 2GLL better than OLL + PLL for big cubes? The better ergonomics of 2GLL on big cubes should be worth the bad CPEOLL recognition. Or am I missing something?


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Nov 19, 2017)

alwin5b said:


> Isn't CPEOLL + 2GLL better than OLL + PLL for big cubes? The better ergonomics of 2GLL on big cubes should be worth the bad CPEOLL recognition. Or am I missing something?


Nice bump.

Ergonomics is better, I think the general consensus is that recognition is kinda awkward. I've actually been working on LL recognition tricks for a while which I'm hoping will fix this, and I've started learning 2GLL (been really busy finishing my PhD though, but should have more free time soon). I actually started looking at LL recog for something else that still might not work, then realised it could be good for this. It's far from proven to work and probably quite difficult though, but if it works out I'll let people know.


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