# Calling all “Race to Sub-X” Organizers!



## BenChristman1 (Jul 28, 2020)

So I’m thinking that we need to come up with a concrete set of rules that stays consistent between all of our threads. I think that there is a little bit of a difference between all of them right now.

@Ciparo @BenChristman1 @fun at the joy @Ordway Persyn @CuberStache @Sub1Hour @PingPongCuber @ProStar @Micah Morrison

Who runs skewb, clock, and BLD?


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## Nmile7300 (Jul 28, 2020)

I think @ProStar runs pyraminx.


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## ProStar (Jul 28, 2020)

Nmile7300 said:


> I think @ProStar runs pyraminx.



I had to step down from that position

Also:









About "Race to Sub-X" Threads (+ List of Active Threads)


(Mods, please don't move this thread) "Race to Sub-X" threads are unofficial competitions held on the forums. The point is for you set a goal to try to beat for a specific puzzle, and if you surpass your goal for three consecutive rounds(a new round is held every week, format is usually Ao12)...




www.speedsolving.com





Once a concrete rule set is added I'll add it there


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## 2018AMSB02 (Jul 28, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> So I’m thinking that we need to come up with a concrete set of rules that stays consistent between all of our threads. I think that there is a little bit of a difference between all of them right now.
> 
> @Ciparo @BenChristman1 @fun at the joy @Ordway Persyn @CuberStache @Sub1Hour @PingPongCuber @ProStar @Micah Morrison
> 
> Who runs skewb, clock, and BLD?



I like this idea, I am up for changing my thread as agreed here. Not that you asked, but just to clarify for everyone here, I currently run the OH thread and am happy to take on more, but preferably not skewb lol.


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## BenChristman1 (Jul 28, 2020)

So I'm thinking that you have to have a certain format for your entries:


Spoiler



Round #
Goal
Cube
Method

Times
Average

Comments



...and just some other rules like:

If you skip or lose 1 week, do you go back to 0/3?
Which events should be more/less than 12 solves (if any)?
and anything else you can think of.


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## Cuberstache (Jul 28, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> So I'm thinking that you have to have a certain format for your entries:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Good


BenChristman1 said:


> If you skip or lose 1 week, do you go back to 0/3?


Skip, no. Lose, yes. The three completions have to be consecutive attempts, but there should be no penalty for skipping weeks.


BenChristman1 said:


> Which events should be more/less than 12 solves (if any)?


I think 12 is fine, maybe 2x2/skewb/pyra could be 25 or something but that's up to whoever runs those threads.


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## BenChristman1 (Jul 28, 2020)

CuberStache said:


> I think 12 is fine, maybe 2x2/skewb/pyra could be 25 or something but that's up to whoever runs those threads.


I personally think that those events could be 25, and megaminx, 6x6, and 7x7 (because those are the events the WCA deems most challenging), should only have 5. I think that the 2x2, pyra, and skewb people need to have the same number, and the mega, 6x6, and 7x7 people have to have the same number.

EDIT: Maybe 5x5 should be with mega, 6, and 7, but I'm not sure. @Ordway Persyn runs 5-7, so I guess he can decide if he wants to include 5x5.


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## 2018AMSB02 (Jul 29, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> Which events should be more/less than 12 solves (if any)?





CuberStache said:


> I think 12 is fine, maybe 2x2/skewb/pyra could be 25 or something but that's up to whoever runs those threads.





BenChristman1 said:


> I personally think that those events could be 25, and megaminx, 6x6, and 7x7 (because those are the events the WCA deems most challenging), should only have 5. I think that the 2x2, pyra, and skewb people need to have the same number, and the mega, 6x6, and 7x7 people have to have the same number.
> 
> EDIT: Maybe 5x5 should be with mega, 6, and 7, but I'm not sure. @Ordway Persyn runs 5-7, so I guess he can decide if he wants to include 5x5.



I personally think that more than 12 is a bit much, just because ao12 and ao5 are pretty much the most common and competed for averages. 
As for less, I agree that 6x6 and 7x7 should be ao5, and megaminx or 5x5 could go either way (The WCA only allows misscrambles on megaminx because it is more common to misscramble, not because it is harder). Also, 4BLD, 5BLD, and MBLD (We dont have them all yet but if we ever do) should maybe be best of 3 attempts? And maybe we make it OK to only do one attempt if you dont feel like doing 3 5BLD attempts. 3BLD could also follow a similar format, but maybe you have 5 attempts?



BenChristman1 said:


> and anything else you can think of.



I like what @Ciparo is doing with the Graudates and the Tryhards section in his results, maybe we set a format of how organizers should publish results?

Maybe like this:



Spoiler: Results Format



Results after Round X

Graduates:
Sub-x
@PingPongCuber 
Sub-y
@PingPongCuber 

Tryhards:
Sub-x
@PingPongCuber - Ao12: ___
Sub-y
@PingPongCuber - Ao12: ___



Don't hesitate to contradict any of this, just my personal opinions for some guide but I am up for anything.


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## Nmile7300 (Jul 29, 2020)

Honestly mega and 5x5 strike a weird in-between in terms of length. 5 seems like too little but 12 seems like too much. However if we are for sure having mega be 5 solves then 5x5 basically has to be 5 solves as well for consistency's sake, I mean it is technically a longer event. Also this is just my opinion, but I don't like being called a tryhard just cause I haven't graduated yet.


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## 2018AMSB02 (Jul 29, 2020)

Nmile7300 said:


> Honestly mega and 5x5 strike a weird in-between in terms of length. 5 seems like too little but 12 seems like too much. However if we are for sure having mega be 5 solves then 5x5 basically has to be 5 solves as well for consistency's sake, I mean it is technically a longer event. Also this is just my opinion, but I don't like being called a tryhard just cause I haven't graduated yet.



Lol, we can call it whatever, just the idea of having two groups.

Also I would personally vote for mega and 5x5 to be ao12 because ao5s are very short


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## Nmile7300 (Jul 29, 2020)

Another thing, for 2-5 relay (Micah runs it) I think it should be ao5 instead of mo3 since 6 and 7 are ao5. I average 2:15 on 6x6 and 2:10 on 2-5, so it makes sense.


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## BenChristman1 (Jul 29, 2020)

I agree that 5 and mega should be the same, and that 2-5 should be ao5. Like this post if you want 5x5 and mega to be ao12, and a love reaction if you want them to be ao5...

...and like this post if you want 2-5 to be ao5, and a love if you want it to be mo3.

(Sorry for the double post.)


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## ProStar (Jul 29, 2020)

Ima chime in now.


*Event Formats*

I like the idea of having some events be Ao5 and some Ao12 based on the length. I'd group it like this:

2x2 - Ao12
3x3 - Ao12
4x4 - Ao12
5x5 - Ao12
6x6 - Ao5
7x7 - Ao5
3BLD - MoB2o4
FMC - Mo3
3x3 OH - Ao12
Clock - Ao12
Megaminx - Ao12
Pyraminx - Ao12
Skewb - Ao12
Square-1 - Ao12
4BLD - Bo3
5BLD - Bo3
MBLD - Bo3
2-5: Ao5
2-7: Mo3

Most of these are pretty straightforward, but I'd like to explain a couple:

MBLD & FMC - We could potentially do Bo1 for both, since each attempt takes an hour and 3 hours is a looong time to spend on a Sub-X thread every week. Graham practices MBLD an insane amount and last I heard he'll do no more than 5 attempts a week. I definitely think it should become the standard to post your 1st result then edit the rest in by the end of the week if it's Bo3/Mo3

3BLD - This is a really weird proposition, but when Kit and Andrew were talking about new 3BLD result methods, I really liked the ideas. I especially like this for Race to Sub-X, since it's based on improving your global average. I feel that Bo3 is based a lot on luck and less your average, yet Mo3 or Ao5 is too harsh because it requires so high consistency. So I like MoB2o4: Mean of Best 2 of 4. You do 4 solves, take the best 2 results, and take the mean of those. I know this is weird, but I think it makes it so that your result is based on your average, but doesn't require so good consistency that you have to slow down



*Entry Format*

I agree there should be a standard format, and I like Ben's idea:



Spoiler



*Round XX*
Goal: Sub-XX
Cube: XX
Method: XX

*Ao12: XX.XX (X/3)

Time List:

1. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
2. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
3. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
4. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
5. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
6. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
7. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
8. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
9. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
10. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
11. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
12.  XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]*

Comment: XX




*Results Format*

I also like Ciparo's format. Instead of making a new post for each round's results, maybe we could just start new threads for each race, that way we can just edit the post like Ciparo does? 


*General Rules*

A list of some of the rules I think there should be:


Use the scrambles provided for your solves, then enter your results with the official format
If you reach your goal 3 rounds in a row, you graduate from that time
If you miss your goal for a round, then your goal goes from X/3 to 0/3, as the 3 rounds you complete your goal in must be consecutive
If you skip a week(don't do the scrambles), then your goal's completions does not reset(i.e: if you were 2/3, skipped a week, then beat your goal next week, then you are at 3/3)

*Random Proposition That's Probably Too Elaborate (But I Mean I'm Talking To The People Who Did The Whole Cult Thing So You Never Know)*

What if we create like a board of directors of everyone who runs one of the Sub-X threads, and if we want to change any of the official rules then we have to vote on it? Then if someone wants to make a new Sub-X thread they have to propose it to the board and they have to decide whether or not it should be a thing(for example, they may say no to 12x12 WF because they don't think anyone will do it and it will just die). And if someone has to step down(like me stepping down from Pyraminx and no one immediately volunteering to take over), then the board can make a post saying that there's no one running Pyra anymore and someone could take it over. This would help threads from dying, because there would be an organization to make sure it never dies


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## CyoobietheCuber (Jul 29, 2020)

ProStar said:


> MoB2o4


?
Like Mo2, Mo4, Bo2, Bo4?


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## BenChristman1 (Jul 29, 2020)

I'll wait until tomorrow, and I'll look at the results of the mini-polls. Then, I'll write up the final rules, and if there are any objections, we can change something.


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## Cuberstache (Jul 29, 2020)

I run the megaminx thread and I strongly believe it should be ao12. An ao5 is too short and relies too much on luck imo. For speedsolving events at least, the averages should be longer than the number of official solves because the whole point is measuring improving global averages, not keeping competitions to a reasonable length. Overall, I agree with what @ProStar posted above about formats, although I wouldn't object to making 3BLD a less unusual format. 

As for the Ciparo format of editing the original post rather than making a new one, I think I'm slightly against that because the way we have it now shows history better. For example, I've been stuck on sub-38 for megaminx for months now and I'd like that to be recognized, rather than just being under the "graduated" section once I graduate, just like someone who beat their goal on the first three weeks.


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## Jupiter (Jul 29, 2020)

@TomTheCuber101 runs skewb
I've taken over past two rounds since he's seemed to forgot about it


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## Kaneki Uchiha (Jul 29, 2020)

I think some of the organizers are not active on the forums now


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## Username: Username: (Jul 29, 2020)

Kaneki Uchiha said:


> I think some of the organizers are not active on the forums now


Nope. all of them are still active on the forum.


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## Kaneki Uchiha (Jul 29, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> Nope. all of them are still active on the forum.


The one who organized skewb has been inactive for like 2 years


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## I'm A Cuber (Jul 29, 2020)

Can we have an option for 5 and mega where you can choose between an ao5 and an ao12? Personally I almost never do mega because an ao12 takes me over half an hour.


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## ProStar (Jul 29, 2020)

CyoobietheCuber said:


> ?
> Like Mo2, Mo4, Bo2, Bo4?



I explained it later in the post:



ProStar said:


> 3BLD - This is a really weird proposition, but when Kit and Andrew were talking about new 3BLD result methods, I really liked the ideas. I especially like this for Race to Sub-X, since it's based on improving your global average. I feel that Bo3 is based a lot on luck and less your average, yet Mo3 or Ao5 is too harsh because it requires so high consistency. So I like MoB2o4: Mean of Best 2 of 4. You do 4 solves, take the best 2 results, and take the mean of those. I know this is weird, but I think it makes it so that your result is based on your average, but doesn't require so good consistency that you have to slow down




I'd still be fine with something more standard, because it's definitely weird and may confuse people who try it out



CuberStache said:


> As for the Ciparo format of editing the original post rather than making a new one, I think I'm slightly against that because the way we have it now shows history better. For example, I've been stuck on sub-38 for megaminx for months now and I'd like that to be recognized, rather than just being under the "graduated" section once I graduate, just like someone who beat their goal on the first three weeks.



That definitely makes sense, and I'm not necessarily all for the suggestion myself. Some of the current threads are years old, and even if they were dead for a while it's still cool to see such an old thread still running


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## 2018AMSB02 (Jul 29, 2020)

ProStar said:


> I explained it later in the post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Personally I really like the MoB2o4 idea


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## brododragon (Jul 29, 2020)

CyoobietheCuber said:


> ?
> Like Mo2, Mo4, Bo2, Bo4?


Coughity Cough Cough 


ProStar said:


> So I like MoB2o4: Mean of Best 2 of 4. You do 4 solves, take the best 2 results, and take the mean of those. I know this is weird, but I think it makes it so that your result is based on your average, but doesn't require so good consistency that you have to slow down


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## BenChristman1 (Jul 29, 2020)

Spoiler: List of "Race to Sub-X" Threads



Active threads:
Race to Sub-X on 2x2: @BenChristman1
Race to Sub-X on 3x3: @Ciparo
Race to Sub-X on 4x4: @fun at the joy
Race to Sub-X on 5x5: @Ordway Persyn
Race to Sub-X on 6x6 + 7x7: @Ordway Persyn
Race to Sub-X on Pyraminx: @Rafaello
Race to Sub-X on Megaminx: @CuberStache
Race to Sub-X on Skewb: @Jupiter
Race to Sub-X on Square-1: @Sub1Hour
Race to Sub-X on 3x3 OH: @PingPongCuber

If you want to take over an inactive thread, you must tell the Board of Directors (explained below).
Inactive threads:
Race to Sub-X on Clock
Race to Sub-X on 3BLD
Race to Sub-X on 3x3 With Feet

If you want to make a new "Race to Sub-X" thread, you must tell the Board of Directors (explained below).
Nonexistent threads:
Race to Sub-X on FMC
Race to Sub-X on 4BLD
Race to Sub-X on 5BLD
Race to Sub-X on 3MBLD
Race to Sub-X on 2-7

I'm not completely sure about this, somebody will have to help me with this one.





Spoiler: Official Entry Format



Use CStimer by clicking "Input" in the dropdown menu at the top, copy and paste the provided scrambles, do the average, then copy and paste the results into your entry.

Round XX
Goal: Sub-XX
Cube: XX
Method: XX

Ao__ / Mo__ / Bo__: XX.XX (X/3)

Time List:
1. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
2. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
3. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
4. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
5. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
6. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
7. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
8. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
9. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
10. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
11. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]
12. XX.XX - <Mini Comment> [Optional]

Comment: XX





Spoiler: Official Results Format



Round ___ Results:

Person 1 - Sub-X, Ao__: ____ (X/3)
Person 2 - Sub-X, Ao__: ____ (X/3)

Round ___ Scrambles:

LIST SCRAMBLES HERE

Round ___ ends on _______________________ (date).





Spoiler: Number of Solves



2x2: Ao12
3x3: Ao12
4x4: Ao12
5x5: Ao12
6x6: Ao5 (optional Ao12)
7x7: Ao5 (optional Ao12)
Pyraminx: Ao12
Megaminx: Ao12
Skewb: Ao12
Square-1: Ao12
OH: Ao12
FMC: Mo3
3BLD: MoB2o4


Spoiler: Explanation



MoB2o4: Mean of Best 2 of 4. You do 4 solves, take the best 2 results, and take the mean of those.


4BLD: Bo3
5BLD: Bo3
3MBLD: Bo3
2-5 Relay: Ao5
2-7 Relay: Mo3





Spoiler: General Rules



1. You must use the provided scrambles, and you must put your results in the format stated above.
2. If you reach your goal 3 rounds in a row, you graduate from that time.
3a. If you miss your goal for a round, then your goal goes from X/3 to 0/3. The 3 rounds you complete your goal must be consecutive.
3b. If you skip a week (don't participate), then your goal's completions does not reset (e.g. if you were 2/3, skipped a week, then beat your goal next week, then you are at 3/3).





Spoiler: Questions for Organizers



Should we all make a new thread and just edit the original post every week?


Spoiler: Possible "Board of Directors"?



What if we create a board of directors of everyone who runs one of the Sub-X threads, and if we want to change any of the official rules, we have to vote on it? Then if someone wants to make a new Sub-X thread they have to propose it to the board and they have to decide whether or not it should be a thing. (For example, they may say no to 12x12 with feet, because they don't think anyone will do it and it will just die.) When the board votes on things it would have to be a certain percent approved (right now, there are 9 [I'm not quite sure, correct me if I'm wrong] people running Race to Sub-X threads, so it could be 6/9) If someone has to step down (like ProStar stepping down from Pyraminx and no one immediately volunteering to take over), then the board can make a post saying that there's no one running pyra anymore and someone could take it over. This would help threads from dying, because there would be an organization to make sure it never dies.

(Edited slightly from @ProStar's post.)






@ProStar can just copy and paste this whole post, except the last sentence "List of 'Race to Sub-X' Threads" spoiler and the whole "Questions for Organizers" spoiler into the original post of this thread if these rules are approved:









About "Race to Sub-X" Threads (+ List of Active Threads)


(Mods, please don't move this thread) "Race to Sub-X" threads are unofficial competitions held on the forums. The point is for you set a goal to try to beat for a specific puzzle, and if you surpass your goal for three consecutive rounds(a new round is held every week, format is usually Ao12)...




www.speedsolving.com


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## Rafaello (Jul 29, 2020)

I can take over Race to sub-x on pyraminx.


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## ProStar (Jul 29, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> Spoiler: List of "Race to Sub-X" Threads
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks great to me! I'd like to see what others think of the board of directors idea


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## BenChristman1 (Jul 29, 2020)

Rafaello said:


> I can take over Race to sub-x on pyraminx.


Edited.


ProStar said:


> Looks great to me! I'd like to see what others think of the board of directors idea


I'm very excited, too. It is a very good idea IMO.


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## Nmile7300 (Jul 29, 2020)

Perhaps the "board of directors" could just be a very large PM. Then when any decisions are made someone can post it on this thread.


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## BenChristman1 (Jul 29, 2020)

Nmile7300 said:


> Perhaps the "board of directors" could just be a very large PM. Then when any decisions are made someone can post it on this thread.


There isn't enough room on one PM for everybody. We could do a discord server or something.


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## Rafaello (Jul 29, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> There isn't enough room on one PM for everybody. We could do a discord server or something.


Yes, discord servers would be pretty nice solution. We can do channel for discussions, and maybe votings with reactions to post,
Also, about pyraminx race, I'll post scrambles for this week later today.


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## Nmile7300 (Jul 29, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> There isn't enough room on one PM for everybody. We could do a discord server or something.


Ah, I wasn't aware of that, since I only have PM's with 1 to 2 people.


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## TomTheCuber101 (Jul 29, 2020)

Sorry I haven't been doing the skewb one, I completley forgot about it. I'll let @Jupiter continue with it for now, thanks to them for taking it over.


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## CyoobietheCuber (Jul 29, 2020)

ProStar said:


> I explained it later in the post:


TL;DR


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## Ordway Persyn (Jul 30, 2020)

I'll chime in:

When it comes to entry formatting I don't think a strict format is at all needed. All thats needed is your goal, times list and average.

I'd rather keep ao12 Option for 6 and 7, As they are less luck based than Ao5. I will note that Ao5 is an option for 6 and 7 I accept. Also the ao12 in 6 and 7 doesn't have to be in one sitting, as long as there were no timed solves of the same event in between. One option I though of for shorter events Is to do 3 Ao12's and use the middle one as the result. Because the averages are independent, you could do the averages on different days, and if someone just does one of the Ao12's it wold just count as normal (I don't know whether to count the better or worse average if you do 2 of the Averages).

also I don't think having the round posting between sunday and tuesday as a rule is at all necessary. I'm fine for some more consistency of the threads, but I don't think strict coordination between the subs is at all necessary.

I'll probably post again with more suggestions.


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## Nmile7300 (Jul 30, 2020)

I agree with a lot of this, however I think the main reason we wanted a more strict rule set is because if someone is competing in multiple threads with different rule sets then it gets confusing for them.


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## Cubing Forever (Oct 20, 2020)

Since race to sub x on FMC is non existent, can I start one ?


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## BenChristman1 (Oct 20, 2020)

Cubing Forever said:


> Since race to sub x on FMC is non existent, can I start one ?


Not FMC, just because it takes a really long time, so I don’t think many people would do it, but I would totally compete in 5 scrambles of Speed FMC. (The scoring is moves + time btw)


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## Cubing Forever (Oct 20, 2020)

Thank you. I'll start one shortly

Edit
I've done it


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## BenChristman1 (Oct 20, 2020)

Cubing Forever said:


> I've done it


Can you change it to only 5 solves?


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## Cubing Forever (Oct 20, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> Can you change it to only 5 solves?


Done.

Also, can I revive the Feet one??


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## BenChristman1 (Oct 20, 2020)

Cubing Forever said:


> Also, can I revive the Feet one??


Go for it.


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## LukasCubes (Oct 21, 2020)

Stupid Question yall are gonna answer no to.

If I change my 2OH comp name to "Race to Sub-X on 2x2 One Handed, can I keep my rules that I have for the current comp or do I have to change the rules to look like all Race to Sub-X threads.


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## BenChristman1 (Oct 21, 2020)

LukasCubes said:


> Stupid Question yall are gonna answer no to.
> 
> If I change my 2OH comp name to "Race to Sub-X on 2x2 One Handed, can I keep my rules that I have for the current comp or do I have to change the rules to look like all Race to Sub-X threads.


No, you would have to change the rules.


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## LukasCubes (Oct 21, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> No, you would have to change the rules.


respectable, but im keeping it "Weekly _ Comps"


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## SpeedCuberSUB30 (Oct 26, 2020)

@BenChristman1 @ProStar and the rest of the board of directors
I have now taken over the Race to Sub-X on 4x4 since @fun at the joy wasn't doing anything so I took over.
Is it fine?


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## Skewb_Cube (Oct 26, 2020)

One month ago I took over the "Race to sub-X on 3x3" and never mentioned about that in here so I'm doing it now just in case. And if someone has any suggestions for the posts I do to share the scrambles and results, just let me know.


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## SpeedCuberSUB30 (Oct 27, 2020)

@BenChristman1 The like means a yes??


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## BenChristman1 (Oct 27, 2020)

SpeedCuberSUB30 said:


> @BenChristman1 The like means a yes??


Yep.


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## SpeedCuberSUB30 (Oct 27, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> Spoiler: List of "Race to Sub-X" Threads
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then In the spoiler change it to my name instead if fun at the joy's 
Thanks in advance
Also @ProStar in your thread make the required changes.


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## BenChristman1 (Oct 27, 2020)

SpeedCuberSUB30 said:


> Then In the spoiler change it to my name instead if fun at the joy's
> Thanks in advance
> Also @ProStar in your thread make the required changes.


We never really ended up enforcing these rules.


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