# Rubik's Cube Scholarships?



## Shamah02 (Apr 7, 2009)

Does anyone know of any scholarships you can get for just simply solving the cube?


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## Feanaro (Apr 7, 2009)

That's what my Dad was asking. When he saw I was serious about doing the cube and going to competitions, he asked me if there were scholarships or sponsorships for the cube. I had a look and couldn't find anything except something about Leyan Lo being sponsored.


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## Shamah02 (Apr 7, 2009)

Yea I've been looking around for them forever.


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## EmersonHerrmann (Apr 7, 2009)

I don't think there are scholarships. As I can recall, Dan Dzoan has done a few sponsering things, like there are videos on youtube with him solving BLD and double hand OH. I can find them right now though haha


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## qqwref (Apr 7, 2009)

Why would someone give out scholarships just for solving the cube? (Wouldn't they be likely to go to the fastest people, anyway?) Where would this money come from, anyway? I mean, you've seen how little money there is in cubing.

Your best bet is to put cubing down as an extracurricular activity and see if you can find some kind of scholarships for unique talents. It'll be many years before we see one that's specifically for cubing.


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## Bob (Apr 7, 2009)

I know Cubewhiz.com offers a $3,000 scholarship every year to the fastest cuber named Bob Burton.


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## Feanaro (Apr 7, 2009)

Bob said:


> I know Cubewhiz.com offers a $3,000 scholarship every year to the fastest cuber named Bob Burton.



Wow, I'd love to be this "Bob" guy, he sounds like he's really good!


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## Bob (Apr 7, 2009)

Feanaro said:


> Bob said:
> 
> 
> > I know Cubewhiz.com offers a $3,000 scholarship every year to the fastest cuber named Bob Burton.
> ...



Nope, just faster than the other Bob Burton


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## toast (Apr 7, 2009)

Bob said:


> I know Cubewhiz.com offers a $3,000 scholarship every year to the fastest cuber named Bob Burton.



I'm changing my name.


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## Musturd (Apr 7, 2009)

I will do something for college (but I don't want people to take my idea and then it not be original)
And I did put "solving Rubik's Cubes and other logic puzzles as fast as I can" (or something like that) in my activities resume.

BUT, I don't think scholarships are awarded.

[Rant (and it's midnight and not done with homework, but I must rant)]
Even though, in all seriousness they should be.
Who cares about sports? Seriously, all sports are boring to watch and not fun to participate in. I hate all sports. Society should hate all sports.
Someone I know, has memorized statistics for about thirty or forty baseball and (american)football players, and he gets terrible grades in school. Yet, if he can play a sport well enough he gets awarded with a free ride to a college that he probably would not have gotten into otherwise, taking the spot of someone who has worked hard everyday for his entire life to get high enough grades to get into a good enough college. (pardon my grammar, I'm tired) (EDIT: In fact, pardon my logic, it's garbage, I'll edit my post tomorrow to make it make more sense, but you (the reader) should get the point)
On the other hand, though, for some of the top schools now, everyone who applies has a perfect record, and the schools need some way of picking between the applicants. BUT they should pick the cuber over the "sports player."
[/Rant]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone who likes/plays sports seriously (I figured I would be safe though, as this is a cubing forum).


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## EmersonHerrmann (Apr 7, 2009)

I think I'll have to agree with you most of the way...I mean, sports is a good thing and all, but many people act like you need to have a sports scholarship to even go to college. And yes, I know there are academic scholarships, but as I understand it, there are much fewer of those than there are sports-related scholarships. Now I'm not saying these sports people should not be able to go to college...it's just that the scholarships offered to them seem pretty easy to get compared to the people who work for grades all there lives as Musturd above referred to. [/pointless rant (I think)]


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## holypasta (Apr 7, 2009)

@musturd: comparitively, that grammar was perfect.


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## byu (Apr 7, 2009)

sport: an activity involving physical excursion and competition

So technically, by this definition, cubing is a sport.


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## EmersonHerrmann (Apr 7, 2009)

By definition, yes, but I hardly think that the world would even recognize is so. I mean, there are only about 5300 people doing it competitively. Although I remember the first time I checked that number I could swear that it was in the 3000s...I guess that proves the theory that speedcubing is expanding. Maybe someday it will be put in the olympics, that would be pretty freakin' sick


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## toast (Apr 7, 2009)

EmersonHerrmann said:


> ...but many people act like you need to have a sports scholarship to even go to college...]



When people ask me about college, they ALWAYS ask what sports I am going to take, or am taking. I hate all sports, except badminton.


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## Shamah02 (Apr 7, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Why would someone give out scholarships just for solving the cube? (Wouldn't they be likely to go to the fastest people, anyway?) Where would this money come from, anyway? I mean, you've seen how little money there is in cubing.
> 
> Your best bet is to put cubing down as an extracurricular activity and see if you can find some kind of scholarships for unique talents. It'll be many years before we see one that's specifically for cubing.



Idk, but a lot of people always tell me that there are scholarships out there for you if you can solve a rubik's cube, but I guess there aren't any

You're right that it would probably go to the fastest people anyway.


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## EmersonHerrmann (Apr 7, 2009)

toast said:


> EmersonHerrmann said:
> 
> 
> > ...but many people act like you need to have a sports scholarship to even go to college...]
> ...



Badminton is pretty fun


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## Bob (Apr 7, 2009)

Musturd said:


> I will do something for college (but I don't want people to take my idea and then it not be original)
> And I did put "solving Rubik's Cubes and other logic puzzles as fast as I can" (or something like that) in my activities resume.
> 
> BUT, I don't think scholarships are awarded.
> ...



I disagree. Sports keep you in shape and hence healthy. I don't think cubing keeps me healthy.

I was a 4 year athlete in college, but I didn't get a scholarship for it (that sort of thing is not allowed in the EARC).

But, no, I am not offended


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## masterofthebass (Apr 7, 2009)

The reason why people get scholarships for sports, is because those sports make the the University money. It's an investment for the school to get good athletes to come to their school. Until cubing "team" can make a school money, there won't be any scholarships. No one is really even sponsored, because cubing at this point is not an investment opportunity for any company.


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## Kian (Apr 7, 2009)

masterofthebass said:


> The reason why people get scholarships for sports, is because those sports make the the University money. It's an investment for the school to get good athletes to come to their school. Until cubing "team" can make a school money, there won't be any scholarships. No one is really even sponsored, because cubing at this point is not an investment opportunity for any company.



Well, yes and no.

Very few college sports teams make any money. Normally the only sports that can make a D-1 college money are football and men's basketball (baseball makes money in the south). And even then most football teams hemorrhage money. A lot of money.

That being said, an investment in athletics is something a school needs to do to be an attractive institution in many cases. Some schools get by without it, but it does a lot towards making the college a better place, I would say.

As for on-topic stuff, obviously this question is silly. There's no rationale to believe cubing teams are in the near future. There are a TON of hobbies/sports that are more likely to make themselves NCAA events. Your best bet is to get some merit-based scholarship money. All in all there are MANY more academic scholarships than there are athletic scholarships in this country.

And, in my opinion, cubing is not a sport anyway, as I think that stretches the definitions way too far. It opens the door to calling just about anything a sport. As someone that has played a lot of sports all his life, I really think it's not even close. Put it this way, what percentage of non-cubers would call cubing a sport? Somewhere just above 0%. How many non-basketball players would call basketball a sport? About 100%. And, though it is my belief that people are, generally, idiots, I would grant those numbers some credence.


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## DavidWoner (Apr 7, 2009)

Musturd said:


> Even though, in all seriousness they should be.
> Who cares about sports? *1. Seriously, all sports are boring to watch and not fun to participate in.* I hate all sports. *2. Society should hate all sports.* Someone I know, has memorized statistics for about thirty or forty baseball and (american)football players, and he gets terrible grades in school. *3. Yet, if he can play a sport well enough he gets awarded with a free ride to a college that he probably would not have gotten into otherwise, taking the spot of someone who has worked hard everyday for his entire life to get high enough grades to get into a good enough college. (pardon my grammar, I'm tired)* (EDIT: In fact, pardon my logic, it's garbage, I'll edit my post tomorrow to make it make more sense, but you (the reader) should get the point)
> *4. On the other hand, though, for some of the top schools now, everyone who applies has a perfect record, and the schools need some way of picking between the applicants. BUT they should pick the cuber over the "sports player."*
> [/Rant]
> ...



I've numbered and highlighted a few things here and I shall address them in order.

1. Only your opinion, and one that's in the minority.
2. Give one good reason. Seriously.
3. There's nothing wrong with your grammar, and I totally understand what you're trying to say. It is, however, erroneous.
4. The cuber has roughly the same chance as the sports player. There are way more factors than just the academic record when colleges consider applicants.
5. You should be.
6. That is both ignorant and offensive.
7. Stop saying "IMHO," if you want to have any chance of making a reasonable argument for your case you need to speak like an adult.
8. I could go on about the benefits of sports, but I will just say that sports keep you healthy, and improve teamwork and leadership skills.

In summary: Learn something about sports, learn something about college admissions, and learn not to make generalizations about things you know nothing about.

I don't feel like numbering Emerson's post, so I will just insert comments as I go along


EmersonHerrmann said:


> but many people act like you need to have a sports scholarship to even go to college.*(umm, no?)* And yes, I know there are academic scholarships, but as I understand it, there are much fewer of those than there are sports-related scholarships.*(you clearly have a great misunderstanding)* Now I'm not saying these sports people should not be able to go to college...it's just that the scholarships offered to them seem pretty easy to get compared to the people who work for grades all there lives as Musturd above referred to. *(You don't think people who get full sports scholarships have worked their whole lives to be good at sports?)*


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## Kian (Apr 7, 2009)

Ditto on literally everything David just said.

That rant, Musturd, was ridiculous, unfounded, and ignorant.


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## Dene (Apr 7, 2009)

Lol thread.


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## qqwref (Apr 7, 2009)

Lol thread.

But I'm just going to put in my opinion, which is: sports scholarships are kind of a silly idea if you think about it. College is education and athletic skill really has nothing to do with academic skill. I know it's valuable for colleges to have good sports teams, but if you disregard that, sports scholarships seem to me to be as weird an idea as it would be for professional sports teams to go out of their way to pick players who got good grades in college.


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## Tyson (Apr 7, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Lol thread.
> 
> But I'm just going to put in my opinion, which is: sports scholarships are kind of a silly idea if you think about it. College is education and athletic skill really has nothing to do with academic skill. I know it's valuable for colleges to have good sports teams, but if you disregard that, sports scholarships seem to me to be as weird an idea as it would be for professional sports teams to go out of their way to pick players who got good grades in college.



But why does a college have to simply be an institution that foster academic growth? Perhaps college athletes in college on scholarship are not going to college to pursue a B.S. in Physics, but they are preparing their lives for a career in athletics? College, the way I see it, is a way to prepare young people for their careers, and if your career is hitting a ball with a stick, then it would make sense that your focus in college is to hit a ball with a stick. And you would treat your academic classes like a physics major would treat their P.E. classes.

There is great value in sports. I personally wished I had played a 'team' sport. I would say cubing has sport-like qualities, and can definitely be considered a sport. There is a physical element in cubing, and this physical element is very crucial to the ability to succeed. It's not like chess where Stephen Hawking could beat you. Generally, apply the Stephen Hawking test. If Stephen Hawking can beat you (or someone in a similar condition as him), it's not a sport.

To further show evidence of cubing being a sport, I sincerely doubt a 60 year-old will cube as well as a 15 year-old. The age range of cubing is probably similar to the age range of golf, in terms of a graph of ability vs. age. Except cubing probably peaks earlier.

Just because you don't have any command of your body doesn't mean there are no value to these things. Enjoy your Type II diabetes.

Oh, another thing to contribute. Cubing is a very selfish activity. Most likely, you sit in your room, and contribute NOTHING to the student body or the school's PR. Why should they reward you for something that's essentially as productive as playing StarCraft?

If you're in Korea, you could probably get a StarCraft scholarship. And it is possible to actually *do something* with the cube that contributes to the school in a positive matter, but I find it unlikely that you would have this motivation given your lack of understanding of the contribution of sports to schools.


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## fanwuq (Apr 7, 2009)

I think sports are great activities that everyone should do, but I don't see why professional athletes even exist. I would much rather do something myself and suck at it than to just watch someone else better do it for entertainment. The only reason I see for watching professional sports is to see it occasionally to see how I can improve my own performance.
For example, I don't watch Nakajima because of: "Yeah! He's so fast!" I don't care about that. I watch to improve my own fingertricks. I can say that watching a few minutes per month is nice, but practicing yourself helps so much more.
Do you really need to be good at sports to get into a good college? I do a little of several things, but I'm not really good at anything.

For cubing, I've made a school club and encouraged people to have hope in themselves to learn new things.


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## Dene (Apr 7, 2009)

But why would you want to get better at cubing? You're own personal benefit? Where is the benefit in being faster? All it involves is doing the same thing over and over and working hard at boring finger tricks and so on.
You are completely overlooking the point of entertainment: the reason it exists is because people get enjoyment out of it; either doing, or watching.


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## fanwuq (Apr 7, 2009)

Dene said:


> But why would you want to get better at cubing? You're own personal benefit? Where is the benefit in being faster? All it involves is doing the same thing over and over and working hard at boring finger tricks and so on.
> You are completely overlooking the point of entertainment: the reason it exists is because people get enjoyment out of it; either doing, or watching.



Doing>watching
It's fun to have the cooling looking fingertricks. I vote Joel Noort for best fingertricks. But it would be better if I have cooler fingertricks than him.  (That will never happen.) I vote LukeMayn for most awkward fingertricks.


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## Musturd (Apr 7, 2009)

I recognize that it is only an opinion.
But it's the right opinion.

(Just kidding)
I needed to rant last night...

Also, another thing that ticks me off is when random people come up and talk to me about "the game" that happened the night before.
[I realize that the following actually is not a good story, but I already wrote it, thus I will not delete it]
My family and I got into a conversation with a random person we were sitting near in some restaurant in Pittsburgh. Eventually, we mention where we are from, and the man replies "Oh, you must be in a good mood." We asked why. He said "because of [some team]." Apparently they won a tournament or something like that. I know that guy was just being nice, but it annoys me.

I guess I don't mind if others like sports so much, but I don't want to be bothered with information I don't care about.


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## fanwuq (Apr 8, 2009)

Musturd said:


> I recognize that it is only an opinion.
> But it's the right opinion.
> 
> (Just kidding)
> ...



I do agree with you. Sometimes people talk about their favorite sports team and I just don't care or see why they care. Like Stefan said, "I'm proud of my own accomplishment. Why does my country matter?" The same applies here. Why should I be proud of some sports team just because they happen to be in the same city I live in? It's their accomplishment, and I don't care. It's not that they celebrate when I have accomplishments. I would not want to be in an one sided relationship.


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## soccerking813 (Apr 8, 2009)

This was a fun thread to read.

A few comments:

I get the feeling that some people think/say that people who are good at cubing should get scholarships because they are smarter than athletes.

Maybe some people feel that you can't be good at solving a rubik's cube and good at sports? If so, why?


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## qqwref (Apr 8, 2009)

Tyson said:


> College, the way I see it, is a way to prepare young people for their careers


Interesting, I never saw it that way. But you're right, if that's what you think college is for, sports scholarships make complete sense.



Tyson said:


> Oh, another thing to contribute. Cubing is a very selfish activity. Most likely, you sit in your room, and contribute NOTHING to the student body or the school's PR. Why should they reward you for something that's essentially as productive as playing StarCraft?


For me cubing is selfish only because there's nothing I would gain from doing it in public. It doesn't HAVE to be selfish - for instance Andy Tsao was here at Caltech a couple of days ago and we spent about an hour outside racing each other on 3x3 and 4x4. A bunch of people were watching and stuff. I don't mind racing people or cubing on stage and I don't care if people watch or film it; I just don't have many opportunities to do that.

If a college put the same amount of effort into cubing as they do other sports (having meets or matches against other schools and sponsoring their cubers to go to them, posting cubing details in the school newspaper, having a coach [by the way I would LOVE a cubing coach], maybe offering P.E. credit), I think any cubers there would gladly participate. But without the same opportunities as other individual sports such as track+field and swimming, you're right, cubing will have to be a selfish activity that is practiced alone.


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## Musturd (Apr 8, 2009)

soccerking813 said:


> This was a fun thread to read.
> 
> A few comments:
> 
> ...



(1): I think neither should. I think scholarships should be need-based only and awarded for academics (and I'm not saying that I deserve one (or even want one)(just in case it looks that way)).

(2): I think that it is a stereotype that cubers are bad/hate sports. Stereotypes are not true 100% of the time, but they are usually true the majority of time. It's true in my case anyway. Also, think about this thread -- of the 25 or so people that posted only 3 or 4 of them mentioned that they liked/were good at sports.

Also, although I do hate sports in general, I hate racquet-sports the least, (which seems to be another trend).

Once again, instead of doing homework, I'm writing posts... Time to work for me.


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## Musturd (Apr 8, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Tyson said:
> 
> 
> > College, the way I see it, is a way to prepare young people for their careers
> ...



Actually, when you put it that way, I agree.


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## Jhong253 (Apr 8, 2009)

@Tyson, you got something against Koreans?

Wow, I can't believe no one mentioned something called financial aid yet.

Why would a college offer cubing scholarships? Cubing doesn't exactly bring a lot of money to the school. Do people fill stadiums to watch couple ridiculously fast cubers? No. For something like football, yes. Cubing isn't quite "up there" in popularity yet.

And that rant thread earlier, just because you are in a cubing forum, that doesn't mean you won't run into athletes here. I play competitive lacrosse. I'm not trying to get college scholarships or anything, but I'm still offended by that rant.

Cubing should be considered as part of the sports part of life, but to offer scholarships for simply being able to solve a cube? That's pushing it way too much.


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## Musturd (Apr 8, 2009)

Musturd said:


> I'm sorry if I offended anyone who likes/plays sports seriously (I figured I would be safe though, as this is a cubing forum).



I guess I was not safe...
I am genuinely sorry for offending you.


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## soccerking813 (Apr 8, 2009)

Jhong253 said:


> Cubing should be considered as part of the sports part of life, *but to offer scholarships for simply being able to solve a cube?* That's pushing it way too much.



That is true. Even if you can solve a cube, so what? That's like saying you can make a free-throw in basketball. Anyone can do it if they just try a little bit. There would be no reason to pay someone money for something like that.


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## Tetris Cube (Apr 8, 2009)

It takes almost no talent to be able to solve a cube, believe it or not. Giving a scholarship for it would be ridiculous. 

Cubing doesn't have enough interest to be up there with other sports, as the only people who care about cubing are those who do it themselves. Many more than just those who play sports enjoy watching them. And sports are important to colleges, cubing is surely not.


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## Musturd (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm pretty sure I mixed up the terms scholarship and financial aid.


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## Bob (Apr 8, 2009)

Jhong253 said:


> hy would a college offer cubing scholarships? Cubing doesn't exactly bring a lot of money to the school. Do people fill stadiums to watch couple ridiculously fast cubers? No. For something like football, yes. Cubing isn't quite "up there" in popularity yet.



But money clearly isn't the only factor because a lot of colleges offer crew--a very expensive and not very popular sport. It is perhaps one of the least popular spectator sports and doesn't do much for colleges besides make rowers happy.

For example, an 8-man shell usually costs over $30,000 (see vespoli.com), plus about $300 * 8 for oars (see concept2.com). Then, the indoor rowers (for training) cost about $1000 each. So, just for one boat of rowers, it can cost over $40,000.

These races are free to watch.


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## pjk (Apr 8, 2009)

If I had the money, I would create a scholarship for cubing. However, it wouldn't be a scholarship for who can cube the fastest, per say, but more so who can do well academically, as well as cube somewhat fast, which shows that you can balance your schedule (academics vs hobbies). I'd make it available to Junior/Seniors in highschool.


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## Bryan (Apr 8, 2009)

pjk said:


> If I had the money, I would create a scholarship for cubing. However, it wouldn't be a scholarship for who can cube the fastest, per say, but more so who can do well academically, as well as cube somewhat fast, which shows that you can balance your schedule (academics vs hobbies). I'd make it available to Junior/Seniors in highschool.



I would also judge them on their writing skills. Not just their single application, but I would look at their forum posts to see how well they write and how well they communicate with other people.


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## Tyson (Apr 8, 2009)

pjk said:


> If I had the money, I would create a scholarship for cubing. However, it wouldn't be a scholarship for who can cube the fastest, per say, but more so who can do well academically, as well as cube somewhat fast, which shows that you can balance your schedule (academics vs hobbies). I'd make it available to Junior/Seniors in highschool.



WTF? Since when did I suggest that I had anything against Koreans? They have StarCraft TV in Korea. It is a cultural statement that something like a StarCraft scholarship, which would NEVER happen in the United States, is definitely possible in Korea, and maybe already exists. You're very insightful.

As for the cubing scholarship, here lies another problem. Cubing does not take much time to reach a high level. Look at all of us here. I started cubing in 2003. Bob started cubing in 2002 I believe... and I'd say probably 85% of the people on this forum started cubing AFTER us.

The truth of the matter is that in a matter of years, sometimes even less than one year, you can go from being nobody to being one of the best in the world. Even if you're not one of the 'best' in the world, you can get to a high level ~17 sec. average without much effort. I would say ~17 sec. avg is the "somewhat fast" that pjk is talking about.

So why bother if you want to reward someone who is only mediocre at this talent? Because anyone can be 'somewhat fast.'

Offering a scholarship to cubing, to something that takes as little effort as cubing (to become decent) really belittles all the other things in the world that take far more time, growth, and maturity to obtain. Even at the absolute highest level of cubing, it doesn't compare to chess players playing at a USCF 2000 level.

And by the way, UTD and UMBC offer chess scholarships.

Oh, and unlike cubing, people actually make a living playing chess. It's not apparent in the United States, but the top chess players make a good deal of money.


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## byu (Apr 8, 2009)

Tetris Cube said:


> It takes almost no talent to be able to solve a cube, believe it or not. Giving a scholarship for it would be ridiculous.
> 
> Cubing doesn't have enough interest to be up there with other sports, as the only people who care about cubing are those who do it themselves. Many more than just those who play sports enjoy watching them. And sports are important to colleges, cubing is surely not.



How about a scholarship for solving it blindfolded?  (just kidding)


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## Tyson (Apr 8, 2009)

byu said:


> Tetris Cube said:
> 
> 
> > It takes almost no talent to be able to solve a cube, believe it or not. Giving a scholarship for it would be ridiculous.
> ...



As if blindfold solving was really much harder...

http://www.collegeandfinance.com/32-weird-scholarships-almost-anyone-can-get/

Add it to that list.


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## Jhong253 (Apr 8, 2009)

Tyson, you still kind of sound like you are making fun of Koreans... besides, StarCraft is a game that has been taken to a professional level now in Korea. StarCraft scholarship? Maybe for the few pro players. Not a chance for younger dudes.


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## Tyson (Apr 8, 2009)

Jhong253 said:


> Tyson, you still kind of sound like you are making fun of Koreans... besides, StarCraft is a game that has been taken to a professional level now in Korea. StarCraft scholarship? Maybe for the few pro players. Not a chance for younger dudes.



I don't see at all how I'm making fun of Koreans. StarCraft is huge in Korea. They have TV. These are facts.

The Korean army created a StarCraft team for the sole purpose of allowing Boxer to play. Isn't that in a sense like a scholarship?

If I was going to make fun of Koreans, it would be very easy. But I guess you have the right to be offended at what you want. I'm not responsible for your ignorance.


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## Jhong253 (Apr 8, 2009)

Me being ignorant? Ok, you weren't making fun of Koreans in that last statement. But you still blatantly stated something like StarCraft scholarships never happen in U.S., but in Korea. What, are you trying to isolate us out for having things that stand out to Americans as, perhaps, strange? Have you thought of how many things Americans do could look strange to us? You are not Korean. Some Korean people do get ticked at statements like that. Now you are saying it's easy to insult Koreans. I'm being ignorant? Sounds more like you are.

Korean army is not like colleges at all. ALL BOYS IN KOREA ARE REQUIRED TO GO TO THE ARMY. In Korea, students are pushed (insanely hard) to go to college and graduate school, but still is not a requirement like it is for the army. So that army example doesn't work.


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## Tyson (Apr 8, 2009)

Jhong253 said:


> Me being ignorant? Ok, you weren't making fun of Koreans. But you still blatantly stated something like StarCraft scholarships never happen in U.S., but in Korea. What, are you trying to isolate us out for having things that stand out to Americans as, perhaps, strange? You are not Korean. Some Korean people do get ticked at statements like that. Now you are saying it's easy to insult Koreans. I'm being ignorant? Sounds more like you are.
> 
> Korean army is not like colleges at all. ALL BOYS IN KOREA ARE REQUIRED TO GO TO THE ARMY. In Korea, students are pushed (insanely hard) to go to college and graduate school, but still is not a requirement like it is for the army. So that army example doesn't work.



All I'm saying is that it would be possible to have a StarCraft scholarship in Korea because StarCraft actually has influence in Korea. StarCraft in Korea is bigger than Rubik's Cube in the United States.

Stop over blowing things. I never isolated Koreans out for enjoying a 'strange' hobby. Every culture and country has its hobbies that other countries will view as strange. The United States is not big into curling, but is big into NASCAR, at least in some regions of the country.

Again, the army example was to simply show that StarCraft has importance in the Korean culture.

You pick your fights very poorly.


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## Jhong253 (Apr 8, 2009)

StarCraft is just a game. Important? No, just extremely popular.

Army is not connected to colleges at all. 

But _picking out_ just an insanely popular game as an 'important' part of another culture? That's a bit too far. Now you've moved on to insulting me.

I understand that your original statement was it would be possible for such scholarship, but look at your sentence right before that.



Tyson said:


> Why should they reward you for something that's essentially as productive as playing StarCraft?



Look at that sentence again and think about how that could be offensive.


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## Bryan (Apr 8, 2009)

Jhong253 said:


> But you still blatantly stated something like StarCraft scholarships never happen in U.S., but in Korea. What, are you trying to isolate us out for having things that stand out to Americans as, perhaps, strange?


It wouldn't have been any different if he had said, "You could get a scholarship for cricket in India". Except if he said that, you'd get people chiming in that there are cricket scholarships in other places, since cricket is popular elsewhere. He just happened to state something that was so narrow it applied to a single country, which happened to be Korea.



Jhong253 said:


> Now you are saying it's easy to insult Koreans.


No, he's stating that if he wanted to make fun of Koreans, he'd be able to do say something else. Not that the fact would be true, or apply to everyone, but just that he'd have the statement.



Jhong253 said:


> Tyson said:
> 
> 
> > Why should they reward you for something that's essentially as productive as playing StarCraft?
> ...



I can't see how that would be offensive unless StarCraft was indeed a huge part of Korean culture, in which case your other arguments don't stand up.


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## Tyson (Apr 8, 2009)

Jhong253 said:


> StarCraft is just a game. Important? No, just extremely popular.
> 
> Army is not connected to colleges at all.
> 
> ...



StarCraft is as productive for Korea as MLS is for the United States. How is that offensive? It's the truth. No one benefits from watching someone kick a ball into a net. But for entertainment purposes, it works. So indirectly, perhaps you stimulate the economy and whatever, but yes. StarCraft is generally not directly produce for a country's GDP. The merchandising and other things though creates jobs and stimulates exporting, but on a direct level, yes. StarCraft is useless. So is Major League Soccer. And baseball, and NASCAR. The act of jumping over a high bar with a flexible pole does not directly contribute to anything but carbon emissions and entropy. But the act of jumping over a high bar with a pole can generate revenue, create jobs, stimulate the economy, etc.

But by virtue, something extremely popular can become important. I chose a random example, and you're starting to go absolutely insane. What I wrote is not offensive, because you can basically put anything you want into that statement, and it still works. Like Bryan said, if I had used cricket in India as an example, it would be the same.

Since you seem to lack social awareness, let me educate you a little bit. If I say the following:

"Asian people are nerdy and their parents make them study in their rooms all the time and they have no social skills"

That is perhaps offensive. In the United States at least, the stereotypes point that way. If I substituted 'white people' or 'black people,' the statement would not have the same effect. Why? Because I played off of stereotypes.

When I used StarCraft as an example, it was an example about how things are valued differently in different places. Let me show you how that's similar... again, if you can basically substitute anything in there, it's not offensive. It's just making an example... consider the following:

"You're so fat, you're like an obese Taiwanese guy from Taichung."

Am I making fun of Taiwanese people? Not really. I'm not playing off a stereotype here. There are fat people all over the world. There are fat people in Poland, in Mexico, and New Zealand...

StarCraft in Korea is the obese Taiwanese guy in Taichung. What part of this don't you get?

Give up. Or a moderator is going to have to enforce the mercy rule here.


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## shelley (Apr 8, 2009)

Jhong253 said:


> Tyson said:
> 
> 
> > Why should they reward you for something that's essentially as productive as playing StarCraft?
> ...



Why, do you think StarCraft IS productive?


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## Tyson (Apr 8, 2009)

Just so people have some context, Jhong253 is the creator of this thread:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10762


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## Jhong253 (Apr 8, 2009)

What, you are trying to order me around now? 

I'm going insane? I'm merely laughing at how a pure sarcasm evolved into serious argument (after I decided to play along instead of telling you I was kidding, my mistake there). Oh, and what mercy rule?

Now that I've just given that part away, I might as well point out that... you said an obese Taiwanese guy (in which case would not be offensive) but the whole StarCraft argument was based on generalizing a lot more on Korean people. Now I have to say I'm beginning to get ticked off a bit because now you've gone as far as ordering me around. 




shelley said:


> Why, do you think StarCraft IS productive?



Depends on how you look at it as Tyson said. (Consider how StarCraft is not even a Korean game and how I don't even like StarCraft)


EDIT: What's that thread got to do with this now?


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## qqwref (Apr 8, 2009)

Jhong253 said:


> FLAMING IGNORANCE



Look, dude. Noticing something different about a culture does NOT amount to racism. It is a FACT that StarCraft is extremely popular in Korea, more popular than probably in any other country. I've seen a Korean TV show where someone mimicked the in-game characters' voices and got huge applause - you couldn't pull that off anywhere else. (This isn't a generalization because nobody is saying that ALL Koreans are into StarCraft - you are the ONLY person in this thread who interpreted it that way!) It's just like American Football in America - no other country goes anywhere near as crazy about the sport as we do, and that is not a generalization or stereotype, it is simply a fact. I'm American and not at all into American Football and I recognize this is a true statement anyway.

Now just because I have noticed that Korea is big on StarCraft does NOT mean I think Korea is better or worse because of this. It's just different. If you think someone is racist just because they don't think every culture is exactly the same, you're disparaging other cultures just as much as you think they are.




Tyson said:


> As for the cubing scholarship, here lies another problem. Cubing does not take much time to reach a high level. Look at all of us here. I started cubing in 2003. Bob started cubing in 2002 I believe... and I'd say probably 85% of the people on this forum started cubing AFTER us.


This is not a fair comparison for a few reasons:
1) You and Bob haven't been seriously practicing for all that time - nowhere near. I don't mean to offend you at all but your participation in cubing is more on the level of a coach or an amateur player at this point (drawing an analogy with another sport), rather than a serious athlete. What I mean by this is that I don't think it is at all necessary to spend 6 or so years cubing to reach the point you are at now, if you were at the same point several years ago.
2) Equipment is much better now, both in terms of physical (lubes, many types of DIY cubes) and mental equipment (new method ideas like ZZ and MGLS, better algorithms). So I think a motivated cuber would take even less time to reach a certain point now than they would in 2003.
3) Cubing is still young as you can see from the frequency at which records are being broken. Even many top-level cubers are continuing to improve their times and standards are constantly getting better. So we don't really know what a high level is yet. Maybe nowadays people reach sub-12 in a year but perhaps in a few decades fast is considered sub-9 average and it takes 5-10 years of constant practice to achieve it - we can't know. I wouldn't really be surprised if the "high level" that a contemporary cuber might be able to get to in a year would take the same amount of time 10-20 years down the road, but no longer be considered a high level at all.


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## Bob (Apr 8, 2009)

Tyson said:


> As for the cubing scholarship, here lies another problem. Cubing does not take much time to reach a high level. Look at all of us here. I started cubing in 2003. Bob started cubing in 2002 I believe... and I'd say probably 85% of the people on this forum started cubing AFTER us.



May 2001 actually  ...I'm coming up to the 8 year mark next month.


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## Jhong253 (Apr 8, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Jhong253 said:
> 
> 
> > FLAMING IGNORANCE
> ...



I can't find my post saying I said "Flaming Ignorance."

I didn't say racism either.

I said I began off on this with sarcasm... and I played along seriously when Tyson replied in a rather serious way (My BIG mistake). I thought Tyson would easily see I was being sarcastic in that first post.


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## shelley (Apr 8, 2009)

qqwref said:


> Tyson said:
> 
> 
> > As for the cubing scholarship, here lies another problem. Cubing does not take much time to reach a high level. Look at all of us here. I started cubing in 2003. Bob started cubing in 2002 I believe... and I'd say probably 85% of the people on this forum started cubing AFTER us.
> ...



Even so, it's the same point: it doesn't take long for a cuber to reach a high level. Compare this to an Olympic sport where the top athletes have been training for almost their entire lives.


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