# Nir1213's Quest to Sub-20 with CFOP!



## Nir1213 (Sep 3, 2020)

*This is a thread where i practice and learn cases and algs to get to sub 40.*
Right now i learned intuitive f2l but i also need help and tips with it.

so now i have this problem where i see that before i learned intuitive f2l i had a 40 second average on f2l, so i went to learn intuitve f2l to get a lower f2l average, but now that i use intuitvte f2l my solve time is 1 minute and 30 seconds on average??
does this need more practice or i am doing it wrong?


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## Spacey10 (Sep 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Right now my avg is 1 min and 30 sec and my PB is 1 min and 12 sec. Practicing and Practicing, but my cube is trash, its a knock-off i think. Getting the mf3rs3m cube. Any tips and help are Welcome, just saying again.


Umm, switch to 4LLL, it makes your time sink really low and it's only 12 algs
Then again, you could also look for other methods, but transitioning from beginners to CFOP is easy


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Right now my avg is 1 min and 30 sec and my PB is 1 min and 12 sec. Practicing and Practicing, but my cube is trash, its a knock-off i think. Getting the mf3rs3m cube. Any tips and help are Welcome, just saying again.



As in your member introduction, practice a lot, become color neutral, don't learn bad habits, and learn good fingertricks. If you are getting a budget cube get the RS3 M 2020, Yj yulong V2 M, Qiyi MS 3x3 or the Qiyi Thunderclap V3 M.

If you want to go further, learn beginner CFOP, Roux, ZZ, etc.

Good Luck! Practice and perseverance are the main things for your improvement for now.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 3, 2020)

yea thanks  after i complete my goal im going to learn beginner CFOP
Maybe i could send you some videos of me solving a cube and you could tell me where i could improve?

Im not sure where to improve actually. I still make mistakes but i dont just really know.


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yea thanks  after i complete my goal im going to learn beginner CFOP
> Maybe i could send you some videos of me solving a cube and you could tell me where i could improve?



I'm not the most qualified for that but I could still help you and give you some tips because I have already been in that stage.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 3, 2020)

oh i dont know how to put video


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> oh i dont know how to put video



When you are going to put or write something at the bottom says "Attach files" you press it and select what you want to attach.

Click the botton spoiler.



Spoiler



=


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## Nir1213 (Sep 3, 2020)

oof the video is too big


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> oof the video is too big



Oh no...how many solves are in the video?


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## Nir1213 (Sep 3, 2020)

wait im compressing it

oof stupid video sizes
Its one solve


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> oof stupid video sizes
> Its one solve



Nice, you edited your message, how long will it take? just to know


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## Nir1213 (Sep 3, 2020)

it didnt work

lemme just tell you
The solve took around 1 min and 52 seconds i think


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> lemme just tell you
> The solve took around 1 min and 52 seconds i think



Well, so if you did the cross on the top, do it on the bottom so you avoid rotating, then you insert the for white corner pieces, also with the cross on the bottom, next you insert the edges, etc.

A general tip is to rotate less and if you are searching for pieces on the U layer, use U moves to avoid rotating.

This became a bit of a chat room, hehe...


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## Nir1213 (Sep 3, 2020)

ufile.io/nxu6hr9n FINALLY HERES THE LINK

download it this took so long and ran into problems
If this forum site could handle good download rates than that would be fantastic but unfortunately it doesnt


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## Spacey10 (Sep 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> download it this took so long and ran into problems
> If this forum site could handle good download rates than that would be fantastic but unfortunately it doesnt


Ermm, why didn't you just upload to YT and link the vid here, and this website doesn't alter your download speeds, its the internet that does that.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 3, 2020)

lol i dont have a acc

ok but the site couldnt still handle a low data download and it was too big for it


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 3, 2020)

I just checked the video and your solve was 1:45 or so, my tips are that you avoid rotating too much, use U moves to search for the pieces in the U layer and also use this for your last layer, and finally when you do D moves, do them with your ring finger instead of your whole hand. And do double flicks for U2. That's it, and practice.

Good Luck! And don't forget to edit messages.

Also check the forum rules, https://www.speedsolving.com/pages/rules/


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## Nir1213 (Sep 3, 2020)

thanks so much

im going to practice using your tips


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## moh_33 (Sep 4, 2020)

Hey i just saw your video on solving, it was pretty good but in some cases i would do something different, (that is because i main the Roux method).

that aside for the beginners method you did do quite good but kinda sloppy, i noticed that after you inserted 1 cross piece you stopped to look for the other cross edges, this could make your solve more slower, you should use your 15 second inspection time on planing the entire white cross or at least planning the "Daisy" that you make before solving the cross edges.

For the bottom layer corners and the middle layer edges, you did well. but you rotate the whole cube at where the corners and/or edges are, this could be because you were seeing the cross edge. I would recommend putting your cross at the bottom side of the cube since after the cross is done you don't really need to think or look at the cross and by doing this you could improve your "look ahead".

now if you don't know what is "look ahead". Look ahead is for example when you put your bottom layer pieces and you instantly continue to solve the other pieces, how do you do this? an example on how to do this is when you insert your corner you shouldn't really think too much about inserting it, rather while you insert it you should also look at the top layer to see if you could spot a corner for your next insertion.

now for the last layer i would recommend learning 4 Look Last Layer, 4LLL is when you solve the top layer by doing 4 steps. If i remember correctly 4LLL have 12 algorithms.

other thing that you should improve are stopping to look for the pieces, while everybody does that, it would cause your solve to be more slower than you could potentially be, to counter this you would need a fairly good understanding on how to do "look ahead". i personally aim for clean solves, and what i mean by Clean is i am aiming to solve the cube with no pausing, rather than i solve fast but i pause like 100 times to find the corners or edges to solve.


*Now Please Don't Think Of My Tips Very Seriously Since I Am Also A Beginner Roux solver, And I Average Of 43.27 Seconds Per Solve.*


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## PetrusQuber (Sep 4, 2020)

Good Luck! Hopefully you’ll reach your goal quite quickly


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

thank you. I have heard of look ahead but i didnt really know how to use it really. I guess maybe im still not used to the cube, as i just see the case and do the algs i remember.
I did do inspection but because i only have 15 seconds (like in WCA i wanted it to be a proper inspection) i just inspected quickly.
I need time to think, so i have a problem at that.

but anyway i will try to find in youtube how to do 4LLL, thanks.
Edit: I also forgot to tell you the the cube also is slowing me down as it does lockups when i try to speedcube.
As before i said im getting a new cube the Moyu RS3 2020
Btw the 4lll is pretty hard even if beginner


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 4, 2020)

I think look ahead for now is something you don't need to worry about, and also use unlimited inspection because if you have a certain time of inspection it adds pressure, when you feel ready for the 15 second inspection, do it.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

oh ok. But i think the 4lll is a bit complicated
Should i practice and use it still tho?


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 4, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> oh ok. But i think the 4lll is a bit complicated
> Should i practice and use it still tho?



At the beginning 4LLL looks and sounds difficult, but if you concentrate you could easily learn the algs and cases, and if you try to learn 4LLL don't learn the algs and cases the same day or you will forget them, learn 2-3 algs and cases per day.

When you learn 4LLL drill the algs so they become part of your muscle memory.



Spoiler: Example



Once I finished 4LLL I thought learning 2 look last layer would be difficult and I would forget the algorithms but I learn them all and drill them, so now they are in my muscle memory. So practice and perseverance are important.


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## Garf (Sep 4, 2020)

I agree. CFOP would be better. However, You could get sub 1 on beginners method by learning better finger tricks, recognizing 7 cross cases, and doing basic PLL. PLL corners, then PLL edges.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

ok thank you i will practice and try 

i mean like after i get sub 1 minute on beginners then i will switch to CFOP Thats basically my goal


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 4, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i mean like after i get sub 1 minute on beginners then i will switch to CFOP Thats basically my goal



For now practice and good fingertricks will easily take you down to sub-1 minute.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

right now im on 2 look pll so yea


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## PetrusQuber (Sep 4, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i mean like after i get sub 1 minute on beginners then i will switch to CFOP Thats basically my goal


Remember other methods


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> Remember other methods


ok


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 4, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> Remember other methods



Yeah, not necessarily you need to use CFOP, because there are other good methods out there like Roux, ZZ, Petrus, etc that you could try. At the end choose the one that fits your turning style, liking and also the one you enjoy using the most.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

i solved my first cube yay!!
(at using 4LLL)
The site I used to help me is this: http://www.cubewhiz.com/2lookoll.php and http://www.cubewhiz.com/2lookpll.php, just saying if your curious


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 4, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i solved my first cube yay!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Congrats! But, why the huge space between though?


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

just to make the first sentence seem a big accomplishment but when you scroll down it actually something, little, but soon remembering all 4LLL's algs and being able to execute them during speedsolves, will lower my time down greatly, just time and practice


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 4, 2020)

Oh, ok... putting 4LLL into your muscle memory will take a few hours of doing solves and drilling the algorithms. For now do U moves to recognize the case and *DON'T ROTATE*, and also learn good algs and fingertricks or else is going to be hard to learn other algorithms to replace the bad ones.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

ik but the 4lll is so hard omg
I have so many cases and algs
The only one i know is Sune, working on Antisune
Orienting the edges is the only one i can do intuitively also tho


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 4, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ik but the 4lll is so hard omg
> I have so many cases and algs
> The only one i know is Sune, working on Antisune
> Orienting the edges is the only one i can do intuitively also tho



Ok, at the beginning is hard to learn to algs and get them into muscle memory, but you will get use to it. And if these seems hard then you find it way harder to learn Full OLL and PLL.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Ok, at the beginning is hard to learn to algs and get them into muscle memory, but you will get use to it. And if these seems hard then you find it way harder to learn Full OLL and PLL.


yea your right. Im using jperm.net for my algs and the trainer which i think is gonna help.


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## SpeedyCube (Sep 4, 2020)

So, I'm kinda in the boat, beginner learning CFOP. I went from an average time of 2:15 last month to right around a minute, and I’m still in the process of learning 4LLL. Here’s some things I learned that helped:

Get a good cube! I started with a Rubik’s cube, and that thing is SO hard to turn. Ordering an actual speed cube instantly dropped 20 seconds off my time.

I now have access to a few speed cubes. The *Gan 354 M v2* is my favorite by far, and it’s currently on sale at www.thecubicle.com and www.speedcubeshop.com . I have a SpeedRipper from Amazon (kinda middle of the road), and purchased a YuXin Little Magic for $5 for my little siblings. The last two are decent cubes, but will help if you’re on a tight budget.

Also, try learning this “beginner’s method” with is most likely different than the one you’re using. I’ve found it to be the most easy to learn of the various LBL beginner methods: https://garron.us/cube/solution.pdf

Here’s the page that helped me learn 4LLL: https://thomasje.webs.com/4lll-tutorial-2

Also, I wouldn’t try to fit your inspection into 15 seconds at first. I started with unlimited inspection time to plan out the cross, then went down to 30 seconds, etc. On average I take about 8 seconds now to plan the cross and the first few moves. It just comes with practice. The more your brain is trained for pattern recognition, the faster you’ll become. It just happens with practice.

Anyway, I hope this helps you. It’s helped me quite a bit.


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## TheMasterJadi (Sep 4, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Right now my avg is 1 min and 30 sec and my PB is 1 min and 12 sec. Practicing and Practicing, but my cube is trash, its a knock-off i think. Getting the mf3rs3m cube. Any tips and help are Welcome, just saying again.


Watch the wired tutorial, that helped me learn and get sub 1-minute times


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## Kyle™ (Sep 4, 2020)

I watched your video.
Here are my recommendations for improving your times in just *one day. *I learned all of these in one hour and never forgot them. You can too.
Learn these 8 ZBF2L cases for inserting your final pair ( +8 for mirror cases ), and 7 OLLs where all of your top stickers are correctly oriented. 




You can just use combinations of Left Sune and Right Sune to solve all 7 cases, just let me know if you want advice on that. 
Those can be learned in just one day, rather than learning full OLL which could take a week or more.
This would be the short-term solution to becoming faster in a shorter time, but you'll want to learn full OLL eventually to achieve the best results.
You could use 4LLL, but ZBF2L is a fun alternative that can yield better results due to it averaging less move count with similar recognition. 

My next recommendation is to not watch yourself performing moves.
For example, if you're inserting a pair with R U' R', you should start looking for other pieces while you let your hands do the moves.
Think of it as a YouTube loading bar. Your eyes are the gray bar, and your hands are the red bar. If your hands catch up to your eyes, that's a pause.

Lastly, use a metronome app to practice look-ahead. Katsuyuki Konishi *(**Planet-Puzzle)* introduced this idea in 2005 and it helped me to work on my look-ahead. Also, I'm sure you'll be tired of hearing this but plan your entire cross in inspection, and don't watch yourself do it, just do it while looking for your first pair. Take as much inspection time as you need, and use Cross solver tools to learn a few tricks here and there.


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## TheMasterJadi (Sep 4, 2020)

Spoiler: Image






The only algorithms I learned to get sub-1 minute averages


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## Nir1213 (Sep 4, 2020)

Ok I will try the method but can you please send me a link of a site that has a cross solver and a translated Version of puzzle planet


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## chessplayground (Sep 4, 2020)

yes i agree, u shud learn 4 look ll, i know 4 look last layer and half of the pll's and i average 26, probable 30 or so if i used full 4 look ll


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## Kyle™ (Sep 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Ok I will try the method but can you please send me a link of a site that has a cross solver and a translated Version of puzzle planet



I use Block Keeper. It has a cross solver on the bottom right. When I first switched to CFOP, I would sometimes look up solutions to really difficult crosses and it helped me learn to be more efficient. 








Block Keeper: Cross platform desktop timer


Block Keeper is a standalone, cross platform desktop cubing timer. It provides a simple and clean interface, completely offline, without Java. Features: Windows, MacOS and Linux support Java not required Completely functional offline, no Internet connection required Event based session...




www.speedsolving.com





Don't worry about Puzzle Planet, I was just posting that to show you the source of the metronome video from 2005.
solving with a metronome on 60 tempo is a good way to practice.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 5, 2020)

Thank you. I will use this. 

Sent from my TA-1025 using Tapatalk

Hmm but I have a problem. I don't really get this case in my solves. I'm not sure how to use it.

wait i dont understand when i do the alg in the case it doesntly really work, it just inserts the white corner and saves the edge, but the other edge and another white corner at the back gets broken and i have to reinsert it again. I had the 5th case hmm
Edit: nvm im not gonna use ZBF2L Im having a hard time learning since i really learn by videos and not in a picture, and there are rarely any vids of this case. Overall I dont think it fits me. I'll just use 4LLL


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## Kyle™ (Sep 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> wait i dont understand when i do the alg in the case it doesntly really work, it just inserts the white corner and saves the edge, but the other edge and another white corner at the back gets broken and i have to reinsert it again. I had the 5th case hmm
> Edit: nvm im not gonna use ZBF2L Im having a hard time learning since i really learn by videos and not in a picture, and there are rarely any vids of this case. Overall I dont think it fits me. I'll just use 4LLL



Use what works best for you, but I recommend always being in a state of learning. You may have executed the alg incorrectly or had a mirror case and not recognized it. I only posted the R cases, not the L ones.
How many OLLs do you currently know? I could advise you on some tricks for learning faster, but the trade-off is that your OLL would be a tiny bit slower once you hit your peak speed. What I mean there is that there are OLLs that are easier to remember, but slower to execute. Still way faster than 4LLL.

If you are still at all interested in ZBF2L, I can record some slow solves, or regular speed solves to show you that it is effective.
Don't forget that you can learn full ZBF2L insertion of a completed pair in 1-2 hours and not learn 50 OLLs, or at least save them for later.
Compare 16 short cases with nearly instant recognition to 57 cases with a few of the cases requiring most people to verify 2 or 3 sides before executing.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 5, 2020)

its fine. Besides its a gateway to CFOP and full OLL and stuff like that, which is better than ZBF2L.
So its ok anyway.
I would be able to recognize some cases intuitively or see some cases in CFOP similar from 4LLL, so thats a good thing.

Im not even in my peak speed yet tho cause the funny thing is that the cube cant handle my speed and i have to go slower, im getting a better one on monday.
Edit: Hmm ok you could show a recording video, just for me to see how useful it is.


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## Kyle™ (Sep 5, 2020)

Sure, i'll work on it.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 5, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> Sure, i'll work on it.


You done yet?


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## Spacey10 (Sep 5, 2020)

The bob burton website has bad algs and they're sorta outdated, and they're not gonna help you a lot, use the ones on JPerm.net and ditch these ones, do it now or it will be SUPER HARD to do it later.
And, tbh, I actually don't see you being motivated, I learned 4LLL in 25 mins, and taught my friend in 30 mins
Also, for swapping two corners, R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' is better and Y perm for diag swap


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## Nir1213 (Sep 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> The bob burton website has bad algs and they're sorta outdated, and they're not gonna help you a lot, use the ones on JPerm.net and ditch these ones, do it now or it will be SUPER HARD to do it later.
> And, tbh, I actually don't see you being motivated, I learned 4LLL in 25 mins, and taught my friend in 30 mins
> Also, for swapping two corners, R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' is better and Y perm for diag swap


Thanks for being helpful. I will


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## Kyle™ (Sep 6, 2020)

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Sorry about the wait, and sorry about my camera quality/angle.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 6, 2020)

i have seen it, and its pretty useful, i think its worth a shot.

So... This is what should one of the cases look like?


Spoiler: Image


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## Spacey10 (Sep 6, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> So... This is what should one of the cases look like?
> View attachment 13351


No, you need to finish all the other f2l slots, then you can do it


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## Kyle™ (Sep 6, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> So... This is what should one of the cases look like?
> View attachment 13351



What Spacey said, ZBF2L is only for the final pair insertion. 
Have you had any luck learning some cases?


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## Nir1213 (Sep 6, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> What Spacey said, ZBF2L is only for the final pair insertion.
> Have you had any luck learning some cases?


Sorry, i have a hard time learning cubing terms, so im supposed to finish f2l first then do that pair as the one i made?



Kyle™ said:


> What Spacey said, ZBF2L is only for the final pair insertion.
> Have you had any luck learning some cases?





Spoiler: Image






I learn the cases quicky when i understand them, so far i think this is one of the cases where i do the algs


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## WarriorCatCuber (Sep 7, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ok. Thank you for telling me, Spacey
> Edit: Nice, reply number at 69 pls dont mess it up


Oh come on. That number is really dumb and inappropriate. Do you even know what it means? (if you do, say "yes", don't reply what it means.)


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## Nir1213 (Sep 7, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> Oh come on. That number is really dumb and inappropriate. Do you even know what it means? (if you do, say "yes", don't reply what it means.)


k sorry about that 
Edit: Deleted it, there.

btw kyle, one of the cases i had them and it worked with one of the algs, its sets up the cross and fixes the f2l as well! All i have to do is fix the edges and corners.



Kyle™ said:


> I watched your video.
> Here are my recommendations for improving your times in just *one day. *I learned all of these in one hour and never forgot them. You can too.
> Learn these 8 ZBF2L cases for inserting your final pair ( +8 for mirror cases ), and 7 OLLs where all of your top stickers are correctly oriented.
> 
> ...


Btw the cases for top stickers to be oriented using the combinations on Sune, can you give me any advice and more things about that, just curious.


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## Spacey10 (Sep 7, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Btw the cases for top stickers to be oriented using the combinations on Sune, can you give me any advice and more things about that, just curious.


Yes you can but it's super slow, just learn the short 10 algs, you probably know 3 of them already.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 7, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Yes you can but it's super slow, just learn the short 10 algs, you probably know 3 of them already.


welp ok then


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## Kyle™ (Sep 7, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Btw the cases for top stickers to be oriented using the combinations on Sune, can you give me any advice and more things about that, just curious.



Hey, sorry I was busy today. Here is the instruction I've given others. This is just to get your OLL times down in a single day, but in the long run you're going to want to learn full OLL. You hold the cube with F facing you, obviously, and look for the identifying stickers which have green arrows. On the first two cases, you would just apply the algorithms shown for Sune. For the next 3 cases, ( with 2 yellow corners oriented ) just make sure you have a yellow sticker at the top left, facing you, ( check the green arrow in the picture ) and apply the Right Sune alg ( R U R' U R U2 R' ). 

For the cases where it's just a cross, have the headlights facing left, like in the pictures, and apply the Right Sune alg ( R U R' U R U2 R' ), After the first Sune, you'll be left with another Sune ( left or right, depending on the case ). If you just get fast at doing Sunes, you can get this step below 5 seconds even as a beginner.

I would recommend that you make sure you understand how to solve these using Sunes, and then work on ZBF2L until you feel comfortable moving on to more difficult things. When I learned ZBF2L, I would do a normal solve, and when I got to my last pair, I would just do the ZBF2L alg, then undo it, about 10 times; Then move on to another solve. Let me know if you have any questions. If you're having difficulties understanding any of this, I can make a video.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 7, 2020)

Thank you. I will learn the ZBF2L cases and algs first tho, then play with the Sunes.


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 7, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Thank you. I will learn the ZBF2L cases and algs first tho, then play with the Sunes.



Have you already learn intuitive F2L?


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## Nir1213 (Sep 7, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Have you already learn intuitive F2L?


uhhh yes


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 7, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> uhhh yes



Nice, but make sure you understand F2L, even though is not that necessary, but it will help with your understanding about how things work during this step.

Good job.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 7, 2020)

its gonna take some time to remember all these ZBF2L cases and algs because im mostly busy everyday pretty much and all cases are a bit similar, so it will be hard to distinguish between them.


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## Laila (Sep 7, 2020)

Yeah I was to be 1:50-2:00 around 5 weeks ago. I just practiced everyday and got better little by little. If you haven’t learned to solve the cross on the bottom yet that definitely helps. When I was around 1:00 average, I switched to Cfop and now I’m 35-50 average, so you’ll get better it just takes some time. And yeah getting a better cube is very helpful


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## Nir1213 (Sep 8, 2020)

Laila said:


> Yeah I was to be 1:50-2:00 around 5 weeks ago. I just practiced everyday and got better little by little. If you haven’t learned to solve the cross on the bottom yet that definitely helps. When I was around 1:00 average, I switched to Cfop and now I’m 35-50 average, so you’ll get better it just takes some time. And yeah getting a better cube is very helpful


Sorry i have been busy i was inactive, but yea i got a new cube already and its the Moyu. Im gonna work on ZBF2L, thanks.

Does anyone know a trick to remember cases that "look similar, im afraid that i might mix up algs with another case and mess up.


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## BenChristman1 (Sep 8, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Does anyone know a trick to remember cases that "look similar, im afraid that i might mix up algs with another case and mess up.


You just do it, there really is no trick. It’s just looking at where headlights and bars/blocks are in relation to each other.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 8, 2020)

Ok, but can someone post the left versions of the case. I sometimes get the mirrored cases and I don't know what to do.


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## Spacey10 (Sep 8, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Ok, but can someone post the left versions of the case. I sometimes get the mirrored cases and I don't know what to do.


Just mirror it, it's intuitive


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 8, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Just mirror it, it's intuitive



Yeah, an example is the sexy move (R U R' U') and (L' U' L U) which the L' and U' version is mirrored of the R and U version or vice versa.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 8, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Yeah, an example is the sexy move (R U R' U') and (L' U' L U) which the L' and U' version is mirrored of the R and U version or vice versa.


OHH so its everything just in lefty version thanks. Right now the algs are hard to memorize so im putting parenthesis in similar batches of moves


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## GAN CUBER (Sep 8, 2020)

Learn 2 look oll or 2 look pll full any one of them it made me avg 30 seconds


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 8, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> OHH so its everything just in lefty version thanks. Right now the algs are hard to memorize so im putting parenthesis in similar batches of moves



The first alg mirrored is *y' L F L' U2 L R' F L' R'*



GAN CUBER said:


> Learn 2 look oll or 2 look pll full any one of them it made me avg 30 seconds



Well, he needs to learn both, 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL. Because if he just learns 2 look OLL then it would be for nothing because after OLL you need PLL.


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## GAN CUBER (Sep 8, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> The first alg mirrored is *y' L F L' U2 L R' F L' R'*
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he needs to learn both, 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL. Because if he just learns 2 look OLL then it would be for nothing because after OLL you need PLL.


ya well he has to take time and learn and can't learn all of his algs in a day


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 8, 2020)

GAN CUBER said:


> ya well he has to take time and learn and can't learn all of his algs in a day



Yeah, and this is just a general tip for learning algs because if you learn lots of algorithms in a day then it becomes overwhelming and you forget them easily.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 8, 2020)

AARRGHH the algs i cant do everytime i do them i mess up
i feel like 4lll is easier. The moves there are more relatable. ZBf2l might be better at lowering moves but it takes a bit time to execute. On one of the cases you have to rotate.


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 8, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> AARRGHH the algs i cant do everytime i do them i mess up
> i feel like 4lll is easier. The moves there are more relatable. ZBf2l might be better at lowering moves but it takes a bit time to execute. On one of the cases you have to rotate.



You are right, but when you get better at 3x3 you can focuse more in other algs sets other than OLL and PLL because learning ZBF2L I think is too much for your level, but you decide if you learn it or not later on.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 8, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> You are right, but when you get better at 3x3 you can focuse more in other algs sets other than OLL and PLL because learning ZBF2L I think is too much for your level, but you decide if you learn it or not later on.


you have a good point. I should focus on two look oll and pll and then maybe learn ZBF2L later as an additive to getting better at speedcubing.

Right now in Cfop, doing good. I just twist the corners to get the cases i want to practice lmao glad i have a magnetic cube.


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## Kyle™ (Sep 8, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> you have a good point. I should focus on two look oll and pll and then maybe learn ZBF2L later as an additive to getting better at speedcubing.



ZBF2L should only take a couple of hours to learn all of the cases including mirrors that I've posted, even for a beginner.
You may be learning ineffectively. I recommend focusing on 2 cases and solving them over and over again until you know them well. Then, move on to another 2. There's only 8 there and they are very low move count. I would say if you can't commit to that simple task, you're not going to succeed at learning 57 OLL and 21 PLL which are all much longer and harder to memorize. 4LLL is not something to dwell on. It's a slow, ineffective way to solve the last layer. I suggest learning full OLL, or ZBF2L + 7 OLL. 


As I said before, if you're interested in learning fewer cases and being 2 seconds slower, learn ZBF2L + 7 OLL.
If you want to learn more cases and be as fast as possible, learn full OLL.
Choose one and commit to it. I am happy to help in any way I can.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 8, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> ZBF2L should only take a couple of hours to learn all of the cases including mirrors that I've posted, even for a beginner.
> You may be learning ineffectively. I recommend focusing on 2 cases and solving them over and over again until you know them well. Then, move on to another 2. There's only 8 there and they are very low move count. I would say if you can't commit to that simple task, you're not going to succeed at learning 57 OLL and 21 PLL which are all much longer and harder to memorize. 4LLL is not something to dwell on. It's a slow, ineffective way to solve the last layer. I suggest learning full OLL, or ZBF2L + 7 OLL.
> 
> 
> ...


Ik but the ZBF2L is hard to understand and execute. Maybe it is too advanced for me right now.
Been doing it for hours and still couldn't understand how it works.
It may be ineffective for you but it has helped many people get fast. It may also help me alot too.
(If its not then i may have to switch to ZBF2L instead anyway i guess)
Everyone has their ways, and specialties. Some like ZZ, or CFOP, Petrus, or Roux. It all depends on what they are comfortable with (maybe for now they might switch).
So right now I think i am comfortable with 4LLL, the cases and algs there may be long, but i am able to memorize and recognize them easily and maybe could also execute them fast as well.


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## Kyle™ (Sep 8, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Ik but the ZBF2L is hard to understand and execute. Maybe it is too advanced for me right now.
> Been doing it for hours and still couldnt understand how it works.
> It may be ineffective for you but it has helped many people get fast. It may also help me alot too.



ZBF2L is objectively easier than regular OLL, as you don't need to inspect a single edge on the outer U layer, and the algorithms are very short. You only need to look at the top face for a brief moment. Here are a couple of examples of how much more efficient it is than 4LLL.

Compare this very common ZBF2L + OLL case to a 4LLL solution.
*ZBF2L: *
Insert pair: *R B U' B' R' *
OLL: *R U R' U R U2 R*'
Move count : 12
Once you practice enough, you'll notice that this ZBF2L case also cancels into the OLL bringing the Move count down to just *10*.

*4LLL: *
Insert pair: *(R U' R')*
Orient edges: *U' f R U R' U' f'*
OLL: *U R U R' U R U2 R'*
Move count : 18
Assuming you're a beginner, those U moves are necessary since you're not accustomed to performing algorithms from alternative angles.

Let's take a look at another case which is pretty dreadful.
0 oriented edges.

*ZBF2L: *
Insert pair: * U' y' R' F' R U2 L R' F' L' R*
OLL: *R U R' U R U2 R'*
Move count : 17 -- Cancelling the final R of ZBF2L into R2 on the OLL brings it down to just *17.

4LLL: *
Insert pair: *(R U' R')*
Orient edges:* F R U R' U' F' , f R U R' U' f'*
OLL: *B' R B L' B' R' B L*
Move count : 23

Again, if you need some help, let me know.
You just need to commit to repetitively solving the cases.

Apply the inverse of the ZBF2L case to your alg, then solve it. do it 10-15 times, then try another case. That's just the hard but necessary path of learning algs. Another fast way you can practice is just scramble using R and U moves and throw in a F R F' once in a while to flip some edges. This way you can skip half of your solve and work on ZBF2L effectively.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 8, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> ZBF2L is objectively easier than regular OLL, as you don't need to inspect a single edge on the outer U layer, and the algorithms are very short. You only need to look at the top face for a brief moment. Here are a couple of examples of how much more efficient it is than 4LLL.
> 
> Compare this very common ZBF2L + OLL case to a 4LLL solution.
> *ZBF2L: *
> ...


Oof i just dont know. the video you gave me before i didnt understand because i couldnt see from that angle. I like videos that explain in picture and show me how it looks like when you do it.
ZBF2L is probably better but i only really understand from a perspective where i can see what is going on. Algs dont really capture that feeling
You could probably make a video with a camera on your shoulder or something like that so i can see but you are probably annoyed by now.


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 8, 2020)

Well, I think @Nir1213 should try to learn the ZBF2L algs because in the future it could help him to avoid Dot OLLs which are weird, but it isn't that necessary.


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## Spacey10 (Sep 8, 2020)

I'll make a video on it tommorow


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## Nir1213 (Sep 9, 2020)

I just found out why I couldn't do the algs. Cause I have been doing the L all wrong. "Smacks face"

Okokok so lemme do zbf2l again RIGHT, buuuut would be good if someone would show me how to do it step by step and explain while showing the cube in process (a.k.a how Jperm does his tutorials on cubing, and also tips).

Sent from my TA-1025 using Tapatalk


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## SpeedyCube (Sep 9, 2020)

Another thing I’ve found helpful is to take a day off from timing yourself. I only time myself every other day. The days I don’t time myself I try to learn new algorithms, memorize them, and get fast at them. So far, this process seems to work really well for me. (I’ve dropped my average time to about 55 seconds or so — and dropping!)

About F2L, I used to do the white corners before flipping the cube and doing the middle layer. Now, I flip the cube after the white cross (working on not looking at the cross at all) and do a corner and matching middle layer edge piece. Even without knowing the full F2L, quite often I end up with a “free pair” or two in the solve just by solving the corners and edges together, instead of all the corners then all the edges.

Part of it is getting good at your chosen method (i.e. practice). The other part is learning where you can be more efficient, and making minor changes accordingly.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 9, 2020)

SpeedyCube said:


> Another thing I’ve found helpful is to take a day off from timing yourself. I only time myself every other day. The days I don’t time myself I try to learn new algorithms, memorize them, and get fast at them. So far, this process seems to work really well for me. (I’ve dropped my average time to about 55 seconds or so — and dropping!)
> 
> About F2L, I used to do the white corners before flipping the cube and doing the middle layer. Now, I flip the cube after the white cross (working on not looking at the cross at all) and do a corner and matching middle layer edge piece. Even without knowing the full F2L, quite often I end up with a “free pair” or two in the solve just by solving the corners and edges together, instead of all the corners then all the edges.
> 
> Part of it is getting good at your chosen method (i.e. practice). The other part is learning where you can be more efficient, and making minor changes accordingly.


right now im learning the first case of ZBF2L. It shouldnt be hard since it doesnt have a lot of notations and is fairly simple. Sooom wish me luck!.
I hope you get sub 50 seconds btw! Good luck. I could maybe show you some F2L tricks but you probably know them anyway. If you havent watched this video btw i would recommend it tho. Use all the tricks you can!


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## WarriorCatCuber (Sep 9, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> right now im learning the first case of ZBF2L. It shouldnt be hard since it doesnt have a lot of notations and is fairly simple. Sooom wish me luck!.
> I hope you get sub 50 seconds btw! Good luck. I could maybe show you some F2L tricks but you probably know them anyway. If you havent watched this video btw i would recommend it tho. Use all the tricks you can!


ZBF2L has over 300 cases btw


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## Nir1213 (Sep 9, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> ZBF2L has over 300 cases btw


you probably havent read this entire thread.



Kyle™ said:


> I watched your video.
> Here are my recommendations for improving your times in just *one day. *I learned all of these in one hour and never forgot them. You can too.
> Learn these 8 ZBF2L cases for inserting your final pair ( +8 for mirror cases ), and 7 OLLs where all of your top stickers are correctly oriented.
> 
> ...



By the way Kyle this isnt for you just for WarriorCatCuber to look at...


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 9, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> you probably havent read this entire thread.



I think he was refering to complete ZBF2L, but what @Kyle™ just showed you some basic cases.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 9, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> I think he was refering to complete ZBF2L, but what @Kyle™ just showed you some basic cases.


Hey Skewb, do you know of a site that can make algs TO make zbf2l cases for me to solve?


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 9, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Hey Skewb, do you know of a site that can make algs TO make zbf2l cases for me to solve?



I usually practice algorithms by doing them many times, so I don't really use an alg trainer. But you can just practice the ZBF2L cases and algs by spamming them.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 9, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> I usually practice algorithms by doing them many times, so I don't really use an alg trainer. But you can just practice the ZBF2L cases and algs by spamming them.


yea i guess. No alg trainers in the internet :/
anyway its fine.


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## WarriorCatCuber (Sep 9, 2020)

The cases he's suggesting are VHLSs. Refer to them as VHLS, it's more accurate.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 9, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> The cases he's suggesting are VHLSs. Refer to them as VHLS, it's more accurate.


no its not VHLS thats kinda the same thing but not really, plus its not good. Its ZBF2L, or you can say ZBLS.


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## Kyle™ (Sep 9, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> The cases he's suggesting are VHLSs. Refer to them as VHLS, it's more accurate.



The cases are taken from the *ZBF2L* page.


CubeZone - ZB First Two Layers - Overview



It is what it is bruh. Alpha male strikes again.

@Nir1213 Just do the inverse of the case ( perform the algorithm in reverse)
so for the case R' F R F', just set it up by doing it as F R' F' R


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## Nir1213 (Sep 9, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> The cases are taken from the *ZBF2L* page.
> 
> 
> CubeZone - ZB First Two Layers - Overview
> ...


seriously stop the bruh words pls it is childish lmao the joke has been P A S S E D.


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## Kyle™ (Sep 9, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> seriously stop the bruh words pls it is childish lmao the joke has been P A S S E D.



When you learn ZBF2L, then I will stop. Alright, bruh?


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## Nir1213 (Sep 9, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> When you learn ZBF2L, then I will stop. Alright, bruh?


ok fine deal



Kyle™ said:


> When you learn ZBF2L, then I will stop. Alright, bruh?


but seriously, no jokes here, why in the first case do you have to rotate? You can do the case without rotating. Because its inneficent?


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## Spacey10 (Sep 9, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> but seriously, no jokes here, why in the first case do you have to rotate? You can do the case without rotating. Because its inneficent?


The finger tricks are better


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## Nir1213 (Sep 9, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> The finger tricks are better


oh ok



Kyle™ said:


> The cases are taken from the *ZBF2L* page.
> 
> 
> CubeZone - ZB First Two Layers - Overview
> ...


haha! just did my first alg all on my own! Now i have to remember it in my heart... 
7 more cases to go!


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## Kaneki Uchiha (Sep 10, 2020)

why do you even need to learn zbf2l and 4lll for sub 1 minute. I know two people who are sub 1 with R U R' U' for permuting and orienting and only know how to do h perms z perms nd both the u perms I find it pointless to make a thread which can be achieved by doing 200 to 500 solves


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## Nir1213 (Sep 10, 2020)

Your comment is off topic. Pls put this comment somewhere else or delete it.

Sent from my TA-1025 using Tapatalk


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## Kaneki Uchiha (Sep 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Your comment is off topic. Pls put this comment somewhere else or delete it.
> 
> Sent from my TA-1025 using Tapatalk


but it is not my comment is completely related to this thread


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## Spacey10 (Sep 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Your comment is off topic. Pls put this comment somewhere else or delete it.
> 
> Sent from my TA-1025 using Tapatalk


No it's not


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## Kyle™ (Sep 10, 2020)

Kaneki Uchiha said:


> why do you even need to learn zbf2l and 4lll for sub 1 minute. I know two people who are sub 1 with R U R' U' for permuting and orienting and only know how to do h perms z perms nd both the u perms I find it pointless to make a thread which can be achieved by doing 200 to 500 solves



I'm setting up OP for long term success, 
Everybody is different. I've taught lots of people different methods. ZBF2L + 7OLL is by far the least amount of information to learn for speedsolving at 15-20 seconds average.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 10, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> No it's not


i was jk but why does he have to criticize


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## Username: Username: (Sep 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i was jk but why does he have to criticize


It's a forum, anybody is open to criticism.


Kyle™ said:


> I'm setting up OP for long term success,
> Everybody is different. I've taught lots of people different methods. ZBF2L + 7OLL is by far the least amount of information to learn for speedsolving at 15-20 seconds average.


Overall, OLL is better than ZBF2L + 7 OLL.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 10, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> I'm setting up OP for long term success,
> Everybody is different. I've taught lots of people different methods. ZBF2L + 7OLL is by far the least amount of information to learn for speedsolving at 15-20 seconds average.


yes your right. Learning ZBF2L in beginners method will no just make me sub 1 min, but maybe even sub 50 seconds.


Username: Username: said:


> It's a forum, anybody is open to criticism.


oh well i guess i need to be armed.


Username: Username: said:


> Overall, OLL is better than ZBF2L + 7 OLL.


you meant "Full OLL"


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## Username: Username: (Sep 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> you meant "Full OLL"


OLL is fine.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 10, 2020)

Kaneki Uchiha said:


> why do you even need to learn zbf2l and 4lll for sub 1 minute. I know two people who are sub 1 with R U R' U' for permuting and orienting and only know how to do h perms z perms nd both the u perms I find it pointless to make a thread which can be achieved by doing 200 to 500 solves


i might as well already be sub 1 minute, might rename this to sub 50 sec avg quest. But that wont be necessary as when i complete this goal im going to switch to more advanced methods.



Username: Username: said:


> OLL is fine.


normal oll not the full one has long algs ZBF2L is basically oll without the long algs you know that?


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> normal oll not the full one has long algs ZBF2L is basically oll without the long algs you know that?



But full OLL is shorter than ZBF2L, in number of algs. And lots of OLLs are short and fast to execute and recognize.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 10, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> But full OLL is shorter than ZBF2L, in number of algs. And lots of OLLs are short and fast to execute and recognize.


im not talking about full oll. And also the ZBF2L one i mentioned i only meant the 8 cases @Kyle™ posted to me so i could improve.


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## Username: Username: (Sep 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> im not talking about full oll. And also the ZBF2L one i mentioned i only meant the 8 cases @Kyle™ posted to me so i could improve.


Yeah those ZBF2L + 7 OLL is useful, but eventually, you will have to learn full OLL at some point.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 10, 2020)

ok gonna be practicing dose zbf2l algs! Ima tell you when i get the second one.


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> im not talking about full oll. And also the ZBF2L one i mentioned i only meant the 8 cases @Kyle™ posted to me so i could improve.



Oh, ok.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 10, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> I'll make a video on it *tomorrow *


hmmmm


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## Spacey10 (Sep 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> hmmmm


Oh shoot well I'll do it next week.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 10, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Oh shoot well I'll do it next week.


it better be or else the uh oh stinky poopy monkey will come in your sleep and haunt you


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## Spacey10 (Sep 10, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> it better be or else the uh oh stinky poopy monkey will come in your sleep and haunt you


y y ye yess master I will start recording


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## Nir1213 (Sep 11, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> y y ye yess master I will start recording


nvm im just gonna learn all 8 algs then learn to use them in the cases. Remembering the cases then the algs will be hard since there might be a possiblity that i will mix up algs with another case.


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## Spacey10 (Sep 11, 2020)

I might release the video today if VideoPad wants to work .


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## Nir1213 (Sep 11, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> I might release the video today if VideoPad wants to work .


its fine. ZBF2L is a pain because i keep having the same case over and over and i cant get the one that i want to practice, but what can i do anyway. So dont worry.



Spacey10 said:


> I might release the video today if VideoPad wants to work .


oorrr VideoPad wants to work later.

UGHHH I NEED VIDEO


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## Spacey10 (Sep 11, 2020)

Why can't you just follow the rules? You keep doing things that are against the rules. If you do too much you might get banned.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 11, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Why can't you just follow the rules? You keep doing things that are against the rules. If you do too much you might get banned.


oh no fine i will keep the list of rules in my pocket  

speedsolving.com/pages/rules


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## DemonicCuberad (Sep 12, 2020)

@Nir1213 i know u have moved to cfop or 4lll atleast, but in the video u uploaded of u solving it in beginner method, where you rotate the bottom 2 layers to get to the slot to put the corner, i do the same, except i avg 25.


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## Spacey10 (Sep 12, 2020)

I made the video!


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## Nir1213 (Sep 12, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> I made the video!


wait where

got it the video actually helps thx


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## Nir1213 (Sep 19, 2020)

right now i think i got all the zbf2l algs, also found a GREAT trick from jperm to do cross and f2l at the same time, it will probably save 10 seconds or more,
all i need is an efficient way to do last layer, i take 20 - 30 seconds in that, hoping to do 10 - 15 seconds. 
its not like i know zbf2l fluently i know them but i just take slow, so im just gonna keep cubing until the zbf2l algs become like muscle memory and i can be able to to execute it fast, which would save like 5 seconds.


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## PetraPine (Sep 19, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> right now i think i got all the zbf2l algs, also found a GREAT trick from jperm to do cross and f2l at the same time, it will probably save 10 seconds or more,
> all i need is an efficient way to do last layer, i take 20 - 30 seconds in that, hoping to do 10 - 15 seconds.
> its not like i know zbf2l fluently i know them but i just take slow, so im just gonna keep cubing until the zbf2l algs become like muscle memory and i can be able to to execute it fast, which would save like 5 seconds.


2 look oll+2 look pll and learn recognition which you can also do from jperm vids


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## Nir1213 (Sep 19, 2020)

ObscureCuber said:


> 2 look oll+2 look pll and learn recognition which you can also do from jperm vids


yea that might work but the zbf2l alg already covers the cross on top and i know sune and antisune which means that i only have to do 5 olls haha
but i have to learn all the plls EXCEPT i learned h perm for no reason already so haha only 5 plls
which means 10 algs i have to learn in total
btw i sometimes forget the zbf2l algs so i gotta practice those algs anyway


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 19, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yea that might work but the zbf2l alg already covers the cross on top and i know sune and antisune which means that i only have to do 5 olls haha
> but i have to learn all the plls EXCEPT i learned h perm for no reason already so haha only 5 plls
> which means 10 algs i have to learn in total
> btw i sometimes forget the zbf2l algs so i gotta practice those algs anyway



If you learn and practice 4 look last layer, it will improve your times rapidly, then just do solves, don't rotate too much, and practice colour neutrality which will help in the long run.

Those zbF2L cases can be easily learned by just drilling the alg. For example, the first algorithm I just needed to rotate once (I think) and then I just spammed it and eventually the cube returned to it's solved state, you can also try this idea by doing the sexy move (R U R' U') 6 times.


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## ZB2op (Sep 19, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Right now my avg is 1 min and 30 sec and my PB is 1 min and 12 sec. Practicing and Practicing, but my cube is trash, its a knock-off i think. Getting the mf3rs3m cube. Any tips and help are Welcome, just saying again.


Just practice


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## SpeedyCube (Sep 19, 2020)

I would focus on learning as many PLL algorithms as you can, and learning to recognize quickly which one to apply. You could easily get your PLL time to less than 5 seconds. It just takes time to learn, and to recognize which one is needed. In other words, the more you practice, the better you’ll get!


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## Spacey10 (Sep 19, 2020)

SpeedyCube said:


> I would focus on learning as many PLL algorithms as you can, and learning to recognize quickly which one to apply. You could easily get your PLL time to less than 5 seconds. It just takes time to learn, and to recognize which one is needed. In other words, the more you practice, the better you’ll get!


??
How do you learn pll at 1:15? 4LLL is the way to go.


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## SpeedyCube (Sep 19, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> ??
> How do you learn pll at 1:15? 4LLL is the way to go.



Yes, I agree that’s the way to go. But if memory serves correctly, 4LLL doesn’t include all the PLL algorithms. The more you can add to your tool box, the more options you have. You will eventually get faster, if for no other reason than that you can recognize more complex situations and cut out a middle step or two.

But yes, start with getting 4LLL down, and expand from there.


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## PetraPine (Sep 19, 2020)

SpeedyCube said:


> I would focus on learning as many PLL algorithms as you can, and learning to recognize quickly which one to apply. You could easily get your PLL time to less than 5 seconds. It just takes time to learn, and to recognize which one is needed. In other words, the more you practice, the better you’ll get!


what?


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## Nir1213 (Sep 19, 2020)

SpeedyCube said:


> I would focus on learning as many PLL algorithms as you can, and learning to recognize quickly which one to apply. You could easily get your PLL time to less than 5 seconds. It just takes time to learn, and to recognize which one is needed. In other words, the more you practice, the better you’ll get!


okokokok lets not go overboard here lol

anyway i know how to do all zbf2l actually now dont need any practice anymore i remember them all.
Problem is i execute them slowly so i gotta work on that
so im gonna do 4LLL right now and practice those cases and algs
im gonna use https://cubingcheatsheet.com/algs3x_2loll.html to help me.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Sep 20, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> okokokok lets not go overboard here lol
> 
> anyway i know how to do all zbf2l actually now dont need any practice anymore i remember them all.
> Problem is i execute them slowly so i gotta work on that
> ...



Ok, nice. But remember to still drill your zbF2L algs so they are completely in your muscle memory, so you perform and recognize them faster.

For your 4LLL algs, remember to execute them with good fingertricks, because that's going to help you to do them fast.


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## xyzzy (Sep 20, 2020)

What in the world is going on here? Why is everyone calling VHLS "ZBF2L"? (Yes, ZBLS/ZBF2L is a superset of VHLS, so this is not _wrong_ per se, but it's needlessly misleading.)

Going out of your way to learn full VHLS (or even just the R U' R' half of it) only really makes sense if you're also planning to learn huge chunks of ZBLL in the future. If not, for the same number of algs to learn, you're better off learning a bunch of easy OLL cases instead. In terms of time savings, VHLS versus easy OLLs are probably roughly equal, but the latter offers a clear path for improvement: just continue learning more OLL algs.

More concretely, learn these algs (you can defer the dot cases to later): https://www.speedsolving.com/attachments/olltopthird-pdf.2800/


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 20, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> What in the world is going on here? Why is everyone calling VHLS "ZBF2L"? (Yes, ZBLS/ZBF2L is a superset of VHLS, so this is not _wrong_ per se, but it's needlessly misleading.)
> 
> Going out of your way to learn full VHLS (or even just the R U' R' half of it) only really makes sense if you're also planning to learn huge chunks of ZBLL in the future. If not, for the same number of algs to learn, you're better off learning a bunch of easy OLL cases instead. In terms of time savings, VHLS versus easy OLLs are probably roughly equal, but the latter offers a clear path for improvement: just continue learning more OLL algs.
> 
> More concretely, learn these algs (you can defer the dot cases to later): https://www.speedsolving.com/attachments/olltopthird-pdf.2800/


ZBF2L is actually better than 2 look oll because in ZBF2L you finish the cross on top while executing your last layer, while in 2 look oll, you have to execute all the f2l pairs and then make the cross on top. ZBF2L is faster in making a cross, which cuts off three 2 look olls needed, which are these:


Spoiler







These are dot, l shaped, and line oll cases, which you have to do AFTER inserting a f2l pair.
ZBF2L does this WHILE inserting an F2L pair, which means that its faster than these 3 olls.
That means i can learn less olls, while getting a faster time
Note this is only an alternative if you want to get faster while learning less *2-look olls, not 1 look oll.*
after i get sub 1 minute, or even sub 50 seconds, i will switch to 1 look oll and pll which is faster then the zbf2l alternative.


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## Username: Username: (Sep 20, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ZBF2L is actually better than 2 look oll because in ZBF2L you finish the cross on top while executing your last layer, while in 2 look oll, you have to execute all the f2l pairs and then make the cross on top. ZBF2L is faster in making a cross, which cuts off three 2 look olls needed, which are these:





xyzzy said:


> *Why is everyone calling VHLS "ZBF2L"?*


Lol. Anyway, 2 look OLL is about the same as VHLS + 7 OLLs, 1 look for making the pair and another for VHLS, then another for the 7 OLLs, compared to 2 look OLL, one look for solving the pair, then making all the edges oriented and one more look for solving OLL.
Like xyzzy said, just learn OLLs here and there, please don't do the easy bad thing and throwing away the hard but good thing.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 20, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> Lol. Anyway, 2 look OLL is about the same as VHLS + 7 OLLs, 1 look for making the pair and another for VHLS, then another for the 7 OLLs, compared to 2 look OLL, one look for solving the pair, then making all the edges oriented and one more look for solving OLL.
> Like xyzzy said, just learn OLLs here and there, please don't do the easy bad thing and throwing away the hard but good thing.


its not easy and bad and i edited my post so look again please.


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## Username: Username: (Sep 20, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> its not easy and bad and i edited my post so look again please.


2 look OLL steps:
1: Solve the pair
2: make the cross
3: solve OLL

VHLS thing:
1: Make the pair
2: Do VHLS (before inserting the pair)
3: Solve OLL


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## Nir1213 (Sep 20, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> 2 look OLL steps:
> 1: Solve the pair
> 2: make the cross
> 3: solve OLL
> ...


you misunderstood, number two and three in ZBF2L, are the same thing
and get your terms right its ZBF2L not VHLS thats another thing
oh wait they are the same thing just looked at speedsolving wiki and you can call zbf2l or vhls or vhf2l which are pretty much the same thing
xyz guy was right but they are the same thing they are not subsets
AND YOU DO NOT MAKE THE PAIR YOU DO THIS (cant explain idk how)





Gofile - Free file sharing and storage platform


Gofile is a free file sharing and storage platform. You can store and share your content of any type without any limit.




bit.ly




you see while i was inserting the f2l i skipped putting the f2l pair into the layer, so i can do zbf2l and solve the f2l pair while solving the cross also at the same time.
note the background sound in the video pls ignore


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## Username: Username: (Sep 20, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> you misunderstood, number two and three in ZBF2L, are the same thing


If you know tell me what your ZBF2L thing does, does it solve the F2L pair *while *orienting the edges? then that's really ZBLS which has like 300 cases btw, and if your thing forms the pair then make the cross on top while inserting the pair, then it's VHLS.


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## xyzzy (Sep 20, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ZBF2L is actually better than 2 look oll because in ZBF2L you finish the cross on top while executing your last layer, while in 2 look oll, you have to execute all the f2l pairs and then make the cross on top. ZBF2L is faster in making a cross, which cuts off three 2 look olls needed, which are these:


Yes, I am not disputing this. What I am disputing is that VHLS + corner OLL is a good way for beginners to improve quickly. Compare these methods:

Method 1 (what Kyle suggested):
1. Form pair.
2. Do VHLS.
3. Corner-only OLL.
4. PLL.

Method 2 (what I'm suggesting):
1. Solve last slot.
2. If it's an easy OLL case, do it. If not, do EOLL.
3. Do corner-only OLL if necessary.
4. PLL.

These methods are, like I said, probably roughly equal when considered in isolation. They're both compromise methods that let you bypass learning full OLL. But method 1 *has no clear path for improvement*! Combining steps 1 and 2 gives you (full) ZBLS, which has hundreds of cases. Combining steps 2 and 3 gives you VLS, which also has hundreds of cases. Combining steps 3 and 4 gives you ZBLL, which, guess what, has hundreds of cases too!

With method 2, combining steps 2 and 3 is just full OLL, with only 58 cases (roughly 30-40 additional algs over the easy OLL cases).

Fine, so maybe you plan to pivot from method 1 to method 2. But now the VHLS algs you learnt _become useless_. Once you've learnt most of OLL, it's almost always better to do a 3-move insert into OLL than VHLS into corner-only OLL.



Nir1213 said:


> AND YOU DO NOT MAKE THE PAIR YOU DO THIS (cant explain idk how)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This specific example is insanely bad. It's (much) worse than inserting the pair and doing 2-look OLL. Stop doing this.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 20, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> Yes, I am not disputing this. What I am disputing is that VHLS + corner OLL is a good way for beginners to improve quickly. Compare these methods:
> 
> Method 1 (what Kyle suggested):
> 1. Form pair.
> ...


can you send me a video of how to do it
im thinking of it maybe
oh wait i just found out i need to learn A FREAKING 46 algs!!
this is not good
it might be faster but its not worth it
im not going that far maybe i will do that when i learn CFOP.


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## Username: Username: (Sep 20, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> its only 8 cases im not learning the whole thing
> and COLL has freaking 42 algs


Uh? what?


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## xyzzy (Sep 20, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> and COLL has freaking 42 algs


This is just a case of really unfortunate naming.

When I say "corner-only OLL", I meant the eight OLL cases with the cross already done (skip, sune, antisune, T, U, L, H, pi). COLL is a different thing altogether.



Nir1213 said:


> can you send me a video of how to do it


How to do _what_? The "method 2" I wrote?

Here are four examples, using only the non-dot OLL cases in the PDF file I linked before.

/* Scramble */
B2 L2 D2 F' D2 F D2 F' R2 D2 F R' F' D2 L2 R2 B2 U' R'

/* Solve */
U' R U R' U R U' R' // last slot
U2 R U R' U' R' F R F' // easy OLL
// Gc perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

/* Scramble */
D F2 R2 D B2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 D L' D F2 U F' L' U2 F

/* Solve */
F' U F R U2 R' // last slot
U F U R U' R' F' // EOLL
r U R' U' r' F R F' // corner OLL
// A perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

/* Scramble */
U2 L2 U' L2 R2 B2 R2 U' R2 D' F2 R' B R' U2 R2 B2 F2 D R2

/* Solve */
y' U' R' U R U' R' U' R // last slot
U' F U R U' R' F' // EOLL
l' U' L U l F' L' F // corner OLL
// Gc perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

/* Scramble */
U2 R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' U2 L' B' U' B U L F' U2 F

/* Solve */
R U' R' U2 R U' R' // last slot
U M' R' U' R U' R' U2 R U' M // easy OLL
// R perm

// View at alg.cubing.net


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## Nir1213 (Sep 20, 2020)

xyzzy said:


> This is just a case of really unfortunate naming.
> 
> When I say "corner-only OLL", I meant the eight OLL cases with the cross already done (skip, sune, antisune, T, U, L, H, pi). COLL is a different thing altogether.


oh ok i see
i really need to learn my terms


xyzzy said:


> How to do _what_? The "method 2" I wrote?
> 
> Here are four examples, using only the non-dot OLL cases in the PDF file I linked before.
> 
> ...


so your saying that i do zbf2l then i solve the top side and then i do corners only oll to fix the corners and then epll to fix the edges?


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## xyzzy (Sep 20, 2020)

I'm saying that you should forget about ZBF2L altogether and just learn proper 2-look OLL, and augment it with some easy 1-look OLL cases.


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## Skewb_Cube (Sep 20, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> oh ok i see
> i really need to learn my terms
> 
> so your saying that i do zbf2l then i solve the top side and then i do corners only oll to fix the corners and then epll to fix the edges?



What people are saying is that you don't need to care about zbF2L because with the algs that you are using, is going to be pretty much the same as 2 Look OLL. And I agree with them, because this are things that you shouldn't be learning, you should be doing the simple things other people and me suggested you at the beginning. For example, I started 10 months ago, and I started by learning the basic stuff and now I'm sub-15 with the simple CFOP things, so you shouldn't be caring about those zbF2L, VHLS, etc.

And yes, I also suggested for a while those algs, but I just also got confused and I didn't think well, but PLEASE learn the basics and you are good to go.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> What people are saying is that you don't need to care about zbF2L because with the algs that you are using, is going to be pretty much the same as 2 Look OLL. And I agree with them, because this are things that you shouldn't be learning, you should be doing the simple things other people and me suggested you at the beginning. For example, I started 10 months ago, and I started by learning the basic stuff and now I'm sub-15 with the simple CFOP things, so you shouldn't be caring about those zbF2L, VHLS, etc.
> 
> And yes, I also suggested for a while those algs, but I just also got confused and I didn't think well, but PLEASE learn the basics and you are good to go.


wow and i srsly thought @Kyle™ was giving me a shortcut to solving cross while doing f2l
anyway could i use those algs anyway or it just completely useless?


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## CyoobietheCuber (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> wow and i srsly thought @Kyle™ was giving me a shortcut to solving cross while doing f2l
> anyway could i use those algs anyway or it just completely useless?


You can use it, it just won't help more than 2-look OLL.


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## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

just learned one 1 look oll cases its the dot case


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## Spacey10 (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> just learned one 1 look oll cases its the dot case


Learn the two F R U R' U' F' and the F U R I'M R' F' cases to get the cross without using ZBF2L


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## Kyle™ (Sep 21, 2020)

ZBF2L is lower move count. 
I've shown some examples earlier in the thread.
I'm not sure why people are telling you to use slow methods and stop learning new things. It's really lazy, bad advice.
You should learn full OLL, and I was giving you a way to be faster in the short term. Same-day improvement for very little learning.
Also, if you've already chosen a learning path, you may want to stick to it and not flip-flop, as this xyz person is suggesting. 
Making a very long post explaining why a method is* worse* than what I've presented isn't really helpful.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Sep 21, 2020)

This thread is strange. The talk of ZBF2L and anything other than just vanilla beginner layer by layer is out of place here. Just practice.

I thought this thread would die instantly because any serious speed cuber can get Sub-1 min with any basic beginner method they want. Just practice. I’m not trying to bash or hate (I am a slow cuber by many of the the standards of this community) but for a quest to get sub-1 min the only recommendation should be to just practice any basic method that interests you.

Nothing beyond what you can learn in your first week of cubing is really necessary to become sub 1-minute. Just practice.

ETA: this did sound a bit pompous so I ill change "vanilla layer by layer" to "vanilla 4LLL" since the OP posted specifically about that. Most of us can agree that's sufficient for sub-1 minute.


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## Kyle™ (Sep 21, 2020)

EngiNerdBrian said:


> This thread is strange. The talk of ZBF2L and anything other than just vanilla beginner layer by layer is out of place here. Just practice.
> 
> I thought this thread would die instantly because any serious speed cuber can get Sub-1 min with any basic beginner method they want. Just practice. I’m not trying to bash or hate (I am a slow cuber by many of the the standards of this community) but for a quest to get sub-1 min the only recommendation should be to just practice any basic method that interests you.
> 
> Nothing beyond what you can learn in your first week of cubing is really necessary to become sub 1-minute. Just practice.



Kinda what I stopped using the forums is because people post their thoughts without any real contribution.
I read your post and gained 0 information. It's really frustrating.
OP was told by many to learn full OLL, and was given some advice for short-term progress. That's the whole thread buddy.


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## qwr (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> Kinda what I stopped using the forums is because people post their thoughts without any real contribution.
> I read your post and gained 0 information. It's really frustrating.
> OP was told by many to learn full OLL, and was given some advice for short-term progress. That's the whole thread buddy.



you may need better reading skills because the point of the post is the last line.
There is no need to learn full OLL at one min avg. 4LLL and basic intuitive F2L knowledge is enough. F2L efficiency likely is the vast majority of the time spent solving, not 2 look OLL or PLL.


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## Kyle™ (Sep 21, 2020)

qwr said:


> you may need better reading skills because the point of the post is the last line.
> There is no need to learn full OLL at one min avg. 4LLL and basic intuitive F2L knowledge is enough. F2L efficiency likely is the vast majority of the time spent solving, not 2 look OLL or PLL.



This doesn't make any sense.

What do you mean "enough"? The OP doesn't want to stay the same speed. He wants to get faster.

It boggles my mind that you're missing the point that *4LLL is what's holding him back and he asked for ways to get faster.*
Did you watch his video and see how slow his last layer was? 
Aside from practice, he must learn more. I gave him information to learn in 1-2 hours to significantly boost his times.
So, if you want to be a non-contributor and waste OPs time like most people have by saying 'practice', be my guest.


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## qwr (Sep 21, 2020)

if you mean the first video i had to download from a file hosting site, then yes i did watch it
it's hard to tell for sure since the cube is partially off screen but the solve starts at about 0:15, cross and f2l is done at 1:15, and last layer is done in at 2:00, which was not 4LLL. At least the OLL was not 2LOLL. but LL is not hard to improve as a beginner because it is just memorization and straightfoward execution. Learning 4LLL which was not implemented is easy. It is much harder to be good at cross and f2l so that is what practice should be spent on.

No matter what, full OLL is completely unnecessary at this stage of learning. If anything full PLL is easier.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> Kinda what I stopped using the forums is because people post their thoughts without any real contribution.
> I read your post and gained 0 information. It's really frustrating.
> OP was told by many to learn full OLL, and was given some advice for short-term progress. That's the whole thread buddy.


There's multiple pages in this thread discussing topics well beyond someone who is solving at a minute plus. My point is that these ideas are irrelevant for someone who averages at 1+minute. Your post has no real contribution and is frustrating, so right back at ya my friend.

I'm just trying to level with the OP. More concepts and ideas won't make you faster, discipline and good mechanics are a better use of your time at this stage. You personally advocated for ZBF2L to the OP which I disagree with, sure that might be technically more efficient or useful but if the OP can't get sub 1-min with basic methods their practice time should not be spent learning new things but should be spent reinforcing the concepts they already know.

I wasnt trying to attack anyone in my post, I just felt that the recommendations to get sub 1-minute in this thread are strange. Yea I am coming at you in this message but that's because I personally think your advice is flawed. Based on the video posted the OP doesn't need to learn new things but just get better at what they already know, i.e. 4LLL. 10 pages on how to get sub-1 minute is out of place here on the forums and the blanket recommendation should be generic advice not pointers to advanced alg sets.


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## qwr (Sep 21, 2020)

I am quite slow which makes me less qualified on how to be fast but more qualified as a beginner (it is often the case at my uni that the TAs, being former students, have a better understanding of what students need to improve than the professors do). I dropped my times very quickly by learning 4LLL and reviewing my F2L cases regularly. That is all that is needed to get to 30 seconds.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Sep 21, 2020)

qwr said:


> I am quite slow which makes me less qualified on how to be fast but more qualified as a beginner (it is often the case at my uni that the TAs, being former students, have a better understanding of what students need to improve than the professors do). I dropped my times very quickly by learning 4LLL and reviewing my F2L cases regularly. That is all that is needed to get to 30 seconds.


Yes exactly. That's why I'm confused whe @Kyle™ is recommending full OLL and ZBF2L to someone who averages over a minute!


----------



## xyzzy (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> ZBF2L is lower move count.
> I've shown some examples earlier in the thread.


With the same four example scrambles I posted on the previous page, my solutions were 19.75 moves long on average and VHLS into corner OLL solutions were 19.0 moves. Shorter, but not by much. In fact, I just went and compared ten freshly generated scrambles.



Spoiler



"easy only" = some of the short non-dot OLL cases
"vhls" = only the joined-pair VHLS cases
Move counts are in STM.

U' R2 D L2 D F2 U' F2 L2 D2 R' U R' U2 B' R' B

easy only:
y' U R' U2 R U R' U' R
U' F U R U' R' F'
L' U' L U' L' U2 L
22

vhls:
y' U R' U2 R U R' U2 R
B L U L' B'
L U2 L' U' L U' L'
20


U2 B2 U2 R2 D' R2 D' F2 L2 F2 U2 L' D' L D' B2 F R' F' R2

easy only:
R U R' U2 R U R'
U F U R U' R' F'
R U R' U R U2 R'
21

vhls:
R U R' U2 R U2 R'
R B U' B' R'
R' U2 R U R' U R
19


R2 B' R2 B U2 R2 F R2 F2 U' F U2 R U' R'

easy only:
y' U' R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R'
U' F U R U' R' F'
R' U2 R U R' U R
22

vhls:
y' U' R U2 R2 U' R
U' R' U' F U R2 U' R' F'
R U R' U R U2 R'
22


R' U' F' U F R2 U' R2 U2 B2 R' B2 U2 R U2 L U2 L'

easy only:
U2 R U2 R' U' R U2 R'
U F U R U' R' F'
F' r U R' U' r' F R
23

vhls:
U2 R U2 R'
U2 S' R U' R' S
U R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R
20


B2 L U2 L U2 L U2 L2 U2 B2 D' L F' L' U2 F D

easy only:
U' F' U' F
U2 F U R U' R' F'
L' U' L U' L' U2 L
18

vhls:
y U' L' U2 L F R U R' F'
R U2 R' U' R U' R'
16


D2 U2 F' U2 B' U2 F U2 F' U2 F R' U2 R U2 B D2

easy only:
U2 R U R' U' R U2 R'
M' U' M U2 M' U' M
15

vhls:
U2 R U R'
U2 S' R U' R' S
R U R' U R U2 R'
17


F U F2 U' F2 U' F R' F2 R2 U2 R' F2 U2 R U2 R' F2

easy only:
U F' U' F
U r U2 R' U' R U' r'
12

vhls:
y U L' U2 L
U L F' L2 U' L U F
U2 R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R
22


R U2 L D2 R' U2 R D2 U2 R' F2 U' F' U F U2 F L'

easy only:
y' U R' U' R U' R' U R
F U R U' R' F'
R U R D R' U' R D' R2
23

vhls:
y U L' U' L
U' L' B' U B L
L' U2 L U L' U L 
17


U' B' U' R2 U B U2 R2 B2 U2 B2 U' B2 U' B2 U' R2

easy only:
U R U' R' d' L' U L
U r U R' U R U2 r'
16

vhls:
U R U' R' d' F R U R' F'
R' U2 R' D' R U2 R' D R2
19


R F2 R F2 R' D R2 U R2 F2 U R2 U' F2 D' F2

easy only:
R U R' U R U' R'
U' F' r U R' U' r' F R
16

vhls:
R U R' U R U' R'
U' F' r U R' U' r' F R
16



Both methods averaged 18.8 moves over these samples.



Kyle™ said:


> OP was told by many to learn full OLL


Name *two* people who said that in this thread. Or heck, even just one. (I didn't find any mention of immediately learning full OLL at all, but maybe my eyes glossed over something.)


----------



## PetrusQuber (Sep 21, 2020)

But seriously. Just practise for sub 1 min.
You don’t need anything else, and OP’s never said he wants to get faster.
Of course I’m assuming that he does but why learn now? There are more useful things to be learning at the moment...
And starting off everything van be quite overwhelming and confusing


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Sep 21, 2020)

So, I don't want to sound rude or anything, but this is just getting annoying and confusing. At the beginning of this I wanted to help someone new to the community and make a good impression of it, so I gave some basic tips as other people did, but little by little other suggestions came out, which weren't the best for a beginner (I supported those tips for a while, and I don't know why) and from that point a kind of controversy, dilemma, or what ever started. And so, people started arguing, etc.

So, my point of this post is to show what this progression thread has come to, at the start there was *simple tips which were enough to get to sub-1 minute or more*. But then people started arguing if it's worth it or not to learn more advanced things.

IMO, *I think this thread should be deleted*, because this is just unnecessary at this point, there's nothing new to add here that is going to be really helpful for someone that is starting out, this just become in to a debate, which wasn't the purpose of the thread. And I understand both points of view (the people that want @Nir1213 to keep it simple and the other people that want him to learn as much as he can) but, as I mention before, this just got annoying, probably for everyone, which I think is better to delete this and make everyone for get about this.


----------



## PetrusQuber (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> This doesn't make any sense.
> 
> What do you mean "enough"? The OP doesn't want to stay the same speed. He wants to get faster.
> 
> ...


What is wrong with practise may I ask?
I mean the entire point of the thread is to get sub 1 minute.


Are you really going to tell me that practising won’t do that?

Heck I’ve seen people who never knew about other methods or couldn’t be bothered to switch reach sub 25 just with vanilla beginner’s...


----------



## PetrusQuber (Sep 21, 2020)

Ok honestly, just finish learning and executing the cases Kyle gave you.
Maybe I didn’t agree with this, it doesn’t matter. OP has already put effort into learning and practising the cases.
Once OP has finished, no more argument? Right?

I mean I learnt full PLL at sub 40. I don’t know why, I had better things to do at that point, but I did anyway.
So I guess Nir you can start learning some basic ZBF2L cases. 
It depends on how far you want to go to be honest. Obviously if you plan to stop at sub 1 min, then just practise solving.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

zbf2l is useless anyway
i think its enough for me to get sub 1 min with oll and pll
the reason why this thread was longer because of the zbf2l stuff


Kyle™ said:


> ZBF2L is lower move count.
> I've shown some examples earlier in the thread.
> I'm not sure why people are telling you to use slow methods and stop learning new things. It's really lazy, bad advice.
> You should learn full OLL, and I was giving you a way to be faster in the short term. Same-day improvement for very little learning.
> ...


i will basically have the same time even with zbf2l because doing the dot, line, or l shaped oll is basically the same time as executing zbf2l to get the cross
it has basically no use
im better off using oll and pll


----------



## PetrusQuber (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> zbf2l is useless anyway
> i think its enough for me to get sub 1 min with oll and pll
> the reason why this thread was longer because of the zbf2l stuff
> 
> ...


Yeah, the whole reason ZBF2L was invented was to go with ZBLL to one look last layer.


----------



## Nmile7300 (Sep 21, 2020)

Oh man this has gotten out of hand. I personally believe that trying to get someone who doesn't even average sub 1 minute to do ZBF2L/VHLS is stupid and ridiculous. From what I can tell, it started as a shortcut for @Nir1213 to lazily get out of learning basic 4LLL. The problem is that there are no shortcuts in cubing. ZBF2L at one minute is completely pointless and it is only confusing @Nir1213 even more. I think this quest would have been over weeks ago if people hadn't tried to make him do ZBF2L. @Nir1213 Combined with practice, the basic beginner tips various people have given you in this thread more than enough to get you sub one easily. Also you might want to check out this thread I made, it says 20-30 seconds, but it applies to you as well: https://www.speedsolving.com/thread...rages-between-20-and-30-seconds-on-3x3.78117/


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> ZBF2L is lower move count.
> I've shown some examples earlier in the thread.
> I'm not sure why people are telling you to use slow methods and stop learning new things. It's really lazy, bad advice.
> You should learn full OLL, and I was giving you a way to be faster in the short term. Same-day improvement for very little learning.
> ...





PetrusQuber said:


> Yeah, the whole reason ZBF2L was invented was to go with ZBLL to one look last layer.


wait 1 look that isnt possible lol


Nmile7300 said:


> Oh man this has gotten out of hand. I personally believe that trying to get someone who doesn't even average sub 1 minute to do ZBF2L/VHLS is stupid and ridiculous. From what I can tell, it started as a shortcut for @Nir1213 to lazily get out of learning basic 4LLL. The problem is that there are no shortcuts in cubing. ZBF2L at one minute is completely pointless and it is only confusing @Nir1213 even more. I think this quest would have been over weeks ago if people hadn't tried to make him do ZBF2L. @Nir1213 Combined with practice, the basic beginner tips various people have given you in this thread more than enough to get you sub one easily.


exactly


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> wait 1 look that isnt possible lol



It is, if someone uses ZBLL, but that's only used when the top cross is done, that's why @PetrusQuber mention that zbF2L was meant for that.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> It is, if someone uses ZBLL, but that's only used when the top cross is done, that's why @PetrusQuber mention that zbF2L was meant for that.


its not worth it learning hundreds of algs


----------



## Nmile7300 (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> its not worth it learning hundreds of algs


It can be worth it at a very high level to learn some of ZBLL. I'm talking sub 9 and faster.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

lol just got a pll skip while solving a cube


----------



## Kyle™ (Sep 21, 2020)

It's painfully obvious that some people in the thread haven't taught anyone to cube before as they lazily throw phrases around like " just do it ", or " just practice". These phrases are really annoying to hear as a beginner, and it's not a good look to be short with people who ask for help. If a homeless man on the street can give the same advice as you did in this thread, I've got news for you: You're a non-contributor. 

Condescendingly assuming OP can't comprehend that practice yields better results is insulting to OP and others who took the time to properly provide guidance.

I offered OP a *short-term success plan ( learn 8 cases in a matter of hours, and boost times. Those cases are also way faster on big cubes than 4LLL by a long shot) *with a plan for *long-term success ( learn full OLL )*,

I think the main issue in this thread that caused confrontation is that people think learning the 8 ZBF2L cases is this huge undertaking that is wasting time and OP could be focusing on other things. It just takes a couple of hours, even for a beginner. That is the definition of 'quick tips for fast progress' which is what OP asked for.

It's okay for people to disagree. It's also okay for me, the alpha male of this forum, to point out when they are objectively wrong, even if that means having multiple people upset with me.

I stated pretty clearly that OP should do what he wants and that I was just offering a different path for him.
Good luck to you @Nir1213. I'm still free to help anytime via PM.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> It's painfully obvious that some people in the thread haven't taught anyone to cube before as they lazily throw phrases around like " just do it ", or " just practice". These phrases are really annoying to hear as a beginner, and it's not a good look to be short with people who ask for help. If a homeless man on the street can give the same advice as you did in this thread, I've got news for you: You're a non-contributor.
> 
> Condescendingly assuming OP can't comprehend that practice yields better results is insulting to OP and others who took the time to properly provide guidance.
> 
> ...



*"Alpha male"*

So, your "quick tips for fast progress" are right, but not the most appropiate for a beginner. From my point of view, other people and me also gave those "quick tips for fast progress" which are also helpful and *not lazy stuff*, because those tips are supposed to be simple ande easy to understand, which with them, a beginner could easily become sub-1 minute. And your tips are good, but not for the level @Nir1213 is, and if you did notice, in lots of occasions he mentioned about being confused, and about how to drill and practice those algs.

And even @Nir1213 could have already be sub-1 minute with the simple layer by layer, by just doing the cross on the bottom, learn good fingertricks and do a bunch of solves so the fingertricks and the beginner algorithms are in his muscle memory.


----------



## PetrusQuber (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> It's painfully obvious that some people in the thread haven't taught anyone to cube before as they lazily throw phrases around like " just do it ", or " just practice". These phrases are really annoying to hear as a beginner, and it's not a good look to be short with people who ask for help. If a homeless man on the street can give the same advice as you did in this thread, I've got news for you: You're a non-contributor.
> 
> Condescendingly assuming OP can't comprehend that practice yields better results is insulting to OP and others who took the time to properly provide guidance.
> 
> ...


I have in fact taught several people to cube, and honestly just doing some solves will get to 1 min. It took maybe a week of solving to get below 1 min for most people.
But OP can do what they want.


----------



## Kyle™ (Sep 21, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> *"Alpha male"*
> 
> So, your "quick tips for fast progress" are right, but not the most appropiate for a beginner. From my point of view, other people and me also gave those "quick tips for fast progress" which are also helpful and *not lazy stuff*, because those tips are supposed to be simple ande easy to understand, which with them, a beginner could easily become sub-1 minute. And your tips are good, but not for the level @Nir1213 is, and if you did notice, in lots of occasions he mentioned about being confused, and about how to drill and practice those algs.
> 
> And even @Nir1213 could have already be sub-1 minute with the simple layer by layer, by just doing the cross on the bottom, learn good fingertricks and do a bunch of solves so the fingertricks and the beginner algorithms are in his muscle memory.



8 easy cases isn't beginner level? How can a 7 year old learn it in just a few hours? 4LLL is surely easy, but again, if you saw OP's video, his last layer needs a boost above all else. 

Also, OP's history in this thread indicated that he was not putting forth any serious effort to learning; Just lots of talking about doing things.
So, it isn't fair to blame the advisor for the OP not putting in effort. That goes for other people giving advice, not just myself.



PetrusQuber said:


> I have in fact taught several people to cube, and honestly just doing some solves will get to 1 min. It took maybe a week of solving to get below 1 min for most people.
> But OP can do what they want.



Do you understand that when someone asks for advice, they don't want to hear "keep doing it"?
It's lazy and unhelpful. They already know they need to keep doing it. Do you think they are going to stop cubing until someone like you comes along and says "hey buddy, keep doing it". Oh, they never would have thought to keep practicing until you came along.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> 8 easy cases isn't beginner level? How can a 7 year old learn it in just a few hours? 4LLL is surely easy, but again, if you saw OP's video, his last layer needs a boost above all else.
> 
> Also, OP's history in this thread indicated that he was not putting forth any serious effort to learning; Just lots of talking about doing things.
> So, it isn't fair to blame the advisor for the OP not putting in effort. That goes for other people giving advice, not just myself.
> ...


i made slow progress because its hard to understand zbf2l and once i did it i thought i would do oll and pll which i would do.
Now i see zbf2l isnt really much of a help to me


Skewb_Cube said:


> *"Alpha male"*
> 
> So, your "quick tips for fast progress" are right, but not the most appropiate for a beginner. From my point of view, other people and me also gave those "quick tips for fast progress" which are also helpful and *not lazy stuff*, because those tips are supposed to be simple ande easy to understand, which with them, a beginner could easily become sub-1 minute. And your tips are good, but not for the level @Nir1213 is, and if you did notice, in lots of occasions he mentioned about being confused, and about how to drill and practice those algs.
> 
> And even @Nir1213 could have already be sub-1 minute with the simple layer by layer, by just doing the cross on the bottom, learn good fingertricks and do a bunch of solves so the fingertricks and the beginner algorithms are in his muscle memory.





Kyle™ said:


> It's painfully obvious that some people in the thread haven't taught anyone to cube before as they lazily throw phrases around like " just do it ", or " just practice". These phrases are really annoying to hear as a beginner, and it's not a good look to be short with people who ask for help. If a homeless man on the street can give the same advice as you did in this thread, I've got news for you: You're a non-contributor.
> 
> Condescendingly assuming OP can't comprehend that practice yields better results is insulting to OP and others who took the time to properly provide guidance.
> 
> ...


i didnt really meant that
i dont want any cheap ways i want to learn it the normal way, which is already pretty easy.
i mean by 4LLL


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> 8 easy cases isn't beginner level? How can a 7 year old learn it in just a few hours? 4LLL is surely easy, but again, if you saw OP's video, his last layer needs a boost above all else.
> 
> Also, OP's history in this thread indicated that he was not putting forth any serious effort to learning; Just lots of talking about doing things.
> So, it isn't fair to blame the advisor for the OP not putting in effort. That goes for other people giving advice, not just myself.



I'm not blaming you about the OP, but I'm just saying, as many others, that is a bit unnecessary for someone starting out to learn those algs, and he doesn't need those algs to improve his last layer, the last layer can be easily improven by just doing solves, because the algs and cases are going to get into the OP's muscle memory.


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Sep 21, 2020)

This is not worth fighting over. He said he didn't want to learn VHLS, so he won't. End of the story.


----------



## PetrusQuber (Sep 21, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> This is not worth fighting over. He said he didn't want to learn VHLS, so he won't. End of the story.


Exactly.


Kyle™ said:


> 8 easy cases isn't beginner level? How can a 7 year old learn it in just a few hours? 4LLL is surely easy, but again, if you saw OP's video, his last layer needs a boost above all else.
> 
> Also, OP's history in this thread indicated that he was not putting forth any serious effort to learning; Just lots of talking about doing things.
> So, it isn't fair to blame the advisor for the OP not putting in effort. That goes for other people giving advice, not just myself.
> ...


Ok, back up. Look at the first couple of pages. Us commenting good luck, some helpful critique and advice, etc. It’s only after you keep insisting to learn ZBF2L that we point out that just solving could’ve meant a sub 1 average already.

@Nir1213 did you get the cube yet?



xyzzy said:


> With the same four example scrambles I posted on the previous page, my solutions were 19.75 moves long on average and VHLS into corner OLL solutions were 19.0 moves. Shorter, but not by much. In fact, I just went and compared ten freshly generated scrambles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also Kyle... Want to answer this?
Plus if this continues we can move to a DM


----------



## Kyle™ (Sep 21, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Ok, back up. Look at the first couple of pages. Us commenting good luck, some helpful critique and advice, etc. It’s only after you keep insisting to learn ZBF2L that we point out that just solving could’ve meant a sub 1 average already.
> 
> @Nir1213 did you get the cube yet?




I was giving more detailed information and encouraging him due to his interest in it.
It's called "helping someone on an individual level and not giving generic advice". 
It's tough stuff.

@Nir1213 

Now that you have gathered a lot of information, you can create a structured learning plan with a schedule.
Let me know if you need any help with anything. 




WarriorCatCuber said:


> This is not worth fighting over. He said he didn't want to learn ZBF2L, so he won't. End of the story.



Top tier contribution. Cognitive boost across the board for everyone. Much learned.


----------



## PetraPine (Sep 21, 2020)

its interesting to see somebody learn to progress through the wierd forum people (including me) instead of mainstream videos lol


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Sep 21, 2020)

Kyle™ said:


> Top tier contribution. Cognitive boost across the board for everyone. Much learned.


I was trying to tell you guys to stop, but it obviously isn't working. He won't learn your algs, and you won't be able to convince him, so just leave him alone, same goes for the others.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

guys can you help me out.. 
you see that piece that looks like a twisted corner but isnt its like under a solved edge
do you know of an alg that can solve the corner without disturbing the solved edge?
i have that case sometimes and its annoying

yes i know its a half face reveal but whatever


----------



## PetrusQuber (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> guys can you help me out..
> you see that piece that looks like a twisted corner but isnt its like under a solved edge
> do you know of an alg that can solve the corner without disturbing the solved edge?
> i have that case sometimes and its annoying
> ...


Basically, take it out with something like R U R’ and attempt to separate the edge and corner, then do basic cases.
Try looking it up on somewhere like jperm.net’s alg sheet


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> guys can you help me out..
> you see that piece that looks like a twisted corner but isnt its like under a solved edge
> do you know of an alg that can solve the corner without disturbing the solved edge?
> i have that case sometimes and its annoying
> ...


Something like
u' R U R' U' R U R' u


----------



## Kyle™ (Sep 21, 2020)

PetrusQuber said:


> Also Kyle... Want to answer this?
> Plus if this continues we can move to a DM



xyz misunderstood the entire premise of my guidance and wasted their time.
I advised OP to learn 8 cases for inserting a *solved pair* and orienting U edges.
xyz posted examples of *solving pairs *( in a way that is beyond the scope of a beginner, I might add ) and inserting them.
It's two totally different things, so he must not have read the thread carefully. My examples show the move count is lower *on average* by a lot.* It isn't even close.*





WarriorCatCuber said:


> I was trying to tell you guys to stop, but it obviously isn't working. He won't learn your algs, and you won't be able to convince him, so just leave him alone, same goes for the others.



You seem to chime in after debate has already cooled down and tell everyone to relax. Like the last several posts are not even in correlation to what you're talking about. Are you just clicking page 5 or 6, reading 2 posts, then hitting 'reply' ??? Very confusing.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> Something like
> u' R U R' U' R U R' u


it works but is there also a alg that doesnt disturb other edges and corners if i might have already solved some f2l corner edge pairs



Kyle™ said:


> xyz misunderstood the entire premise of my guidance and wasted their time.
> I advised OP to learn 8 cases for inserting a *solved pair* and orienting U edges.
> xyz posted examples of *solving pairs *( in a way that is beyond the scope of a beginner, I might add ) and inserting them.
> It's two totally different things, so he must not have read the thread carefully. My examples show the move count is lower *on average* by a lot.* It isn't even close.*
> ...


sorry for double posting, i dont want to edit the other post because it would be confusing and off topic of my last post,
but its pretty still much the same.
zbf2l:
have f2l pair and do a alg to put the pair back and make a cross in 4-5 seconds (sometimes 1 - 2 seconds for the most easy case but thats rare 
4LLL:
solve f2l pair in like less that 1 or at least 1 second
make cross in 1 - 2 seconds

you see whats going on here


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> it works but is there also a alg that doesnt disturb other edges and corners if i might have already solved some f2l corner edge pairs



Try this: but first but the corner piece facing you on the left (the colour of your cross facing your, in this case I think it was blue) and the algorithm is:

*Lefty version:*

L' U' L U L' U2 L U L' U' L

*Right handed version:*

R U R' U' R U2 R' U' R U R'

Edit: The right handed version, you put the corner piece on the right instead of left.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Try this: but first but the corner piece facing you on the left (the colour of your cross facing your, in this case I think it was blue) and the algorithm is:
> 
> *Lefty version:*
> 
> ...


thanks!
these helps also
but im too lazy to do left
does anyone have a alg for that?
nvm thats too much to ask for now im being greedy



buut if you have one i would like it


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> thanks!
> these helps also
> but im too lazy to do left
> does anyone have a alg for that?
> ...



Lazy?! It's a sexy move, but the lefty version, then another sexy move but with a U2 and then just the three mover insertion.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 21, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Lazy?! It's a sexy move, but the lefty version, then another sexy move but with a U2 and then just the three mover insertion.


okok fine just saying that im a righty
i use left sune the righty way cause its faster for me
but that doesnt matter its fast anyway


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Sep 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> okok fine just saying that im a righty
> i use left sune the righty way cause its faster for me
> but that doesnt matter its fast anyway



I'm just kidding, but in cubing being right or left handed doesn't make any difference (well, at least in my case).

For the Sune case you can use: *R U R' U R U2 R'*

For the Anti Sune case you can use: *R U2 R' U' R U' R' *

I'm writing these algs just in case...


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 22, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> I'm just kidding, but in cubing being right or left handed doesn't make any difference (well, at least in my case).
> 
> For the Sune case you can use: *R U R' U R U2 R'*
> 
> ...


it makes a difference to me because i have to rotate to do the left handed case
that cost some time
but its little nonetheless


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Sep 22, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> it makes a difference to me because i have to rotate to do the left handed case
> that cost some time
> but its little nonetheless


Don't rotate. Use U moves to adjust. Trust me, it's faster.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 22, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> Don't rotate. Use U moves to adjust. Trust me, it's faster.


yea it works but i have to do d move to do it (not the normal d)
and its hard and awkward to do it





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----------



## Skewb_Cube (Sep 22, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yea it works but i have to do d move to do it (not the normal d)
> and its hard and awkward to do it
> 
> 
> ...



You don't need to do a wide D move for that, just a U move. Because OLL and PLL happens in the U layer, so you just need to do a U move so you have a better angle to execute the alg.


----------



## Nir1213 (Sep 22, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> You don't need to do a wide D move for that, just a U move. Because OLL and PLL happens in the U layer, so you just need to do a U move so you have a better angle to execute the alg.


no i mean like when you are inserting a edge piece in f2l you do an alg and get the f2l pair, the one with the edge piece and corner piece
so when you insert it in i have to do a wide d move so i can line it up in the correct f2l hole.
does it make sense?


----------



## Nmile7300 (Sep 22, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> no i mean like when you are inserting a edge piece in f2l you do an alg and get the f2l pair, the one with the edge piece and corner piece
> so when you insert it in i have to do a wide d move so i can line it up in the correct f2l hole.
> does it make sense?


The original example where you said that you have to rotate/do d moves was an OLL alg.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 3, 2020)

this thread is not done yet haha anyway im double posting cause i finished 4LLL so im going to improve on my cross now then i will speedsolve

done my first ao3 and it cut of 20 seconds now my avg is 1 minute and 9 seconds, now i just have to improve on my fingertricks



Spoiler: big pb



 lol wut



Edit: We did it boys


Spoiler: sub 1 min avg quest complete




avg is now sub 1 min



now that my quest is complete im going to leave the LBL method like i never used it and use another method yayy
anyway thx guys for helping me all this time it really helped

im thinkin of switching to cfop guys i really think it suits me because i prefer algs


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Oct 4, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> im thinkin of switching to cfop guys i really think it suits me because i prefer algs


Are you sub-1?
If so switch. CFOP is really just an advanced beginner's method.
Learn intuitive F2L, and 4LLL, if those are not done, then I would recommend getting at least sub-40 before starting PLL, and sub-30 before OLL.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 4, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> Are you sub-1?
> If so switch. CFOP is really just an advanced beginner's method.
> Learn intuitive F2L, and 4LLL, if those are not done, then I would recommend getting at least sub-40 before starting PLL, and sub-30 before OLL.


yep but the thing is i havent learned intuitive f2l yet im doing it right now

Edit: just learned intuitive f2L learned it from jperms video 




you should go check it out jperms vids are awesome its also were i learned beginners method and also fingertricks hes the best man


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yep but the thing is i havent learned intuitive f2l yet im doing it right now
> 
> Edit: just learned intuitive f2L learned it from jperms video
> 
> ...


Ok, can we have your 4lll algs?


----------



## Kaneki Uchiha (Oct 5, 2020)

why not Roux or ZZ? have you even tried them?


----------



## Owen Morrison (Oct 5, 2020)

Kaneki Uchiha said:


> why not Roux or ZZ? have you even tried them?


Stop trying to confuse him more after he just figured out a way for him to improve.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Ok, can we have your 4lll algs?


uhh i know all of them i learned it from jperm.net



Kaneki Uchiha said:


> why not Roux or ZZ? have you even tried them?


ZZ has alot of regrips so i wouldnt want that would just hinder my speed
roux is as good as cfop but it uses m moves for at the end and m moves are not comfortable with me really
so i would just go with cfop

well right now with intuitive f2l im so slow it takes me now like 2 minutes to solve the cube


----------



## Username: Username: (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ZZ has alot of regrips so i wouldnt want that would just hinder my speed


That is utterly wrong.
Unless you are talking about EOLine then you are correct.


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> uhh i know all of them i learned it from jperm.net


Did you change any algs, by like clicking on them and changing the algs, or is is the default?


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Did you change any algs, by like clicking on them and changing the algs, or is is the default?


yep i used other algs, like for the bowtie one i used the full oll one cause its easier and faster\
but i didnt change them

buut i changed one pll alg the z perm i used M2 U M2 U M U2 M2 U2 M U2


----------



## PetrusQuber (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ZZ has alot of regrips so i wouldnt want that would just hinder my speed
> roux is as good as cfop but it uses m moves for at the end and m moves are not comfortable with me really
> so i would just go with cfop
> 
> well right now with intuitive f2l im so slow it takes me now like 2 minutes to solve the cube


Don’t
Please don’t say ittttttttt
Ahh it’s too late


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yep i used other algs, like for the bowtie one i used the full oll one cause its easier and faster\
> but i didnt change them
> 
> buut i changed one pll alg the z perm i used M2 U M2 U M U2 M2 U2 M U2


Can I have the bowtie alg? Also, do t use that Z perm, use the default one on JPerm.net
I made the same mistake as you, and I regret picking that alg.


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Oct 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Can I have the bowtie alg? Also, do t use that Z perm, use the default one on JPerm.net
> I made the same mistake as you, and I regret picking that alg.


No. That's the best z-perm.


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 5, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> No. That's the best z-perm.


It is? I replaced all the M with M' and the U with U'


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Can I have the bowtie alg? Also, do t use that Z perm, use the default one on JPerm.net
> I made the same mistake as you, and I regret picking that alg.


i dont regret it lol and the other algs require a rotation so thats even worse
the bowtie alg is this: R' F' R B R' F R B'



Spacey10 said:


> It is? I replaced all the M with M' and the U with U'


those are basically the same. I use M2 with my left ring and middle finger so i use it with U your probably righty so your U'


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i dont regret it lol and the other algs require a rotation so thats even worse
> the bowtie alg is this: (r U R' U') (L' U R U')


Please don't use this alg, you then need to do a rotation to continue into pll


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Oct 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Please don't use this alg, you then need to do a rotation to continue into pll


Both your thumbs are on top, so it doesn't matter.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Please don't use this alg, you then need to do a rotation to continue into pll


yea you have to rotate down but at the same time your doing moves so it doesnt really waste time you could also just look halfway down or not at all actually


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Oct 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> It is? I replaced all the M with M' and the U with U'


The U with U' depends on which hand you do M slices with. And the Ms are good, because after the flick, your Middle finger is on the bottom, and so the push is super easy.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

LukasCubes said:


> you should probably rename this to sub-50 or sub-45 to keep this thread going


it would be so long tho jeez


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yea you have to rotate down but at the same time your doing moves so it doesnt really waste time you could also just look halfway down or not at all actually


Do r U R' U' r' F R F'. 0 regrips, and is basically the same as your alg.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> Do r U R' U' r' F R F'. 0 regrips, and is basically the same as your alg.


thats not bowtie oll thats the headlights but its facing sideways im talking about bowtie oll the one with 2 corners already done


----------



## Username: Username: (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> thats not bowtie oll thats the headlights but its facing sideways im talking about bowtie oll the one with 2 corners already done


Headlights OLL also has 2 corners done xd
anyway here are some good bowtie OLL algs:
here, here and here.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> Headlights OLL also has 2 corners done xd
> anyway here are some good bowtie OLL algs:
> here, here and here.


oh didnt explain myself clearly the links are the ones i meant and i like the one i use anyway but thanks


----------



## Username: Username: (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> oh didnt explain myself clearly the links are the ones i meant and i like the one i use anyway but thanks


That one with B moves? don't use that one.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> That one with B moves? don't use that one.


why not?


----------



## Username: Username: (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> why not?


Literally all other algs are way better.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> Literally all other algs are way better.


the algs you gave me, 2 have f so thats worse than the one i use, one doesnt but its basically the same as the one i use in terms of speed but it has 9 move count and mine is 8 movecount and it uses d moves im not so good with d moves


----------



## Zubin Park (Oct 5, 2020)

btw, if you haven't taken a look at my sub-x guide for CFOP, you should now!


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Zubin Park said:


> btw, if you haven't taken a look at my sub-x guide for CFOP, you should now!


yea it will help but after i learn intuitive f2l


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> the algs you gave me, 2 have f so thats worse than the one i use, one doesnt but its basically the same as the one i use in terms of speed but it has 9 move count and mine is 8 movecount and it uses d moves im not so good with d moves



If an alg has f, r, u, or whatever, it doesn't mean it's bad, and if you are not good at any move, practice will fix it. And the alg you have with the B moves I don't think is good, because you have to regrip to do those B moves. Obviously not every alg is bad if it has B moves, but the thing is to have nice fingertricks to execute them.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> If an alg has f, r, u, or whatever, it doesn't mean it's bad, and if you are not good at any move, practice will fix it. And the alg you have with the B moves I don't think is good, because you have to regrip to do does B moves. Obviously not every alg is bad if it has B moves, but the thing is to have nice fingertricks to execute them.


i guess your right but i really think my alg is fine


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> thats not bowtie oll thats the headlights but its facing sideways im talking about bowtie oll the one with 2 corners already done


Right sorry. I meant the inverse, so F R' F' r U R U' r'


----------



## SpeedyCube (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213,

This is super confusing that you changed the thread from sub-1 minute to sub-40. Please, next time just start a different thread.

In answer to your new question: Practice getting down 4LLL consistently. That should get you pretty close to low 40s average, if not lower. Then start learning as many PLL algorithms as you can to start dropping your time even more.

Learn F2L algorithms, but I personally don’t think you should focus on memorizing them. They will come naturally in time, and you won’t even have to think about them, you’ll just be able to do. Start by learning to find and solve one pair before moving on to the next. Then, move on to finding one pair, then finding the next as you solve the first.

Anyway, you CAN do this, but it’s going to take a lot of practice. By practice, I mean spend some time learning new algorithms and when to apply them, some time memorizing and really getting them down, some time timing yourself, and some time just cubing without a clock. You need practice in all these areas to succeed.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

SpeedyCube said:


> Nir1213,
> 
> This is super confusing that you changed the thread from sub-1 minute to sub-40. Please, next time just start a different thread.
> 
> ...


its not my fault that i did it, lukas suggested me it and i didnt know it would be confusing. I thought starting another thread would be kinda annoying to other people instead of posting it here, anyway sorry for that. 
Thanks for the tips tho


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

*This is a thread where i practice and learn cases and algs to get to sub 40.*
Right now i learned intuitive f2l but i also need help and tips with it.

so now i have this problem where i see that before i learned intuitive f2l i had a 40 second average on f2l, so i went to learn intuitve f2l to get a lower f2l average, but now that i use intuitvte f2l my solve time is 1 minute and 30 seconds on average??
does this need more practice or i am doing it wrong?


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

maybe people who are trying to break the sub 1 min avg could visit this thread and see what they can get anything from this.


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> maybe people who are trying to break the sub 1 min avg could visit this thread and see what they can get anything from this.


im sub-20 so im just here to see what people say here lol


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> *This is a thread where i practice and learn cases and algs to get to sub 40.*
> Right now i learned intuitive f2l but i also need help and tips with it.
> 
> so now i have this problem where i see that before i learned intuitive f2l i had a 40 second average on f2l, so i went to learn intuitve f2l to get a lower f2l average, but now that i use intuitvte f2l my solve time is 1 minute and 30 seconds on average??
> does this need more practice or i am doing it wrong?


That is absolutely normal. When I started using F2L, my times were just weird. I used to average 1 minute, then I used F2L, went to 2 minutes, then practiced, went down to 1 minute 10 seconds, found out that I did something wrong, went up to 3 minutes, practices, went to 40, realized that I screwed up somehow again, went to 50, and now I'm at 35.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 5, 2020)

LukasCubes said:


> im sub-20 so im just here to see what people say here lol



Me too, and also because is a joy to help someone that wants to improve


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> That is absolutely normal. When I started using F2L, my times were just weird. I used to average 1 minute, then I used F2L, went to 2 minutes, then practiced, went down to 1 minute 10 seconds, found out that I did something wrong, went up to 3 minutes, practices, went to 40, realized that I screwed up somehow again, went to 50, and now I'm at 35.


woah. I was sub-50 beginner and sub-1:30 with beginner CFOP and went down to sub-30 then learned like 30 algs in the next week and now im sub-20.

Also for Nir12-whatever, you just need to practice and you will get way better. Learning more algs is good too.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

LukasCubes said:


> im sub-20 so im just here to see what people say here lol





Skewb_Cube said:


> Me too, and also because is a joy to help someone that wants to improve


Haha lets see what your gonna do when i have a sub 20 quest


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 5, 2020)

As @Spacey10 said, normally when someone learns something new and time their selves, your solves are going to be slower, and that happened me too. I was sub-45 with beginners and sub-1:15 with beginners last layer (not 4LLL) and intuitive F2L. With practice your times are going to go back to normal and then even lower.

And just practice. I'm saying this because practice is always crucial at cubing, for example, with just intuitive F2L and beginner last layer (again, not 4LLL) I got to sub-40.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> That is absolutely normal. When I started using F2L, my times were just weird. I used to average 1 minute, then I used F2L, went to 2 minutes, then practiced, went down to 1 minute 10 seconds, found out that I did something wrong, went up to 3 minutes, practices, went to 40, realized that I screwed up somehow again, went to 50, and now I'm at 35.


lol tWISt eNdING
just need practice i guess but i will never have a outcome like yours lol



Skewb_Cube said:


> As @Spacey10 said, normally when someone learns something new and time their selves, your solves are going to be slower, and that happened me too. I was sub-45 with beginners and sub-1:15 with beginners last layer (not 4LLL) and intuitive F2L. With practice your times are going to go back to normal and then even lower.
> 
> And just practice. I'm saying this because practice is always crucial at cubing, for example, with just intuitive F2L and beginner last layer (again, not 4LLL) I got to sub-40.



That means i can get sub 40 with just intuitive f2l???? might be the easiest quest ever lol
anyway i will check you back when i get faster at intuitive or i need a better way for an f2l case.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Haha lets see what your gonna do when i have a sub 20 quest



I'm probably be recommending, look ahead, full PLL, etc. But don't see those things yet.  

I bet you didn't saw that coming...


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Haha lets see what your gonna do when i have a sub 20 quest


lol i probably be sub-15 or more. Good Luck with whatever you are doing.



Skewb_Cube said:


> I'm probably be recommending, look ahead, full PLL, etc. But don't see those things yet.
> 
> I bet you didn't saw that coming...


im sub-20 full PLL and 51 OLL (I plan to learn other 6 before this weekend)


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 5, 2020)

I suggest learning these


Rubik's Cube Solution - 2 Look OLL




Rubik's Cube Solution - 2 Look PLL


this will help you get faster (4LLL)
[I DO NOT OWN ANY OF THESE LINKS OR THE SITE THEY ARE ON]


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 5, 2020)

Spoiler: Ao5: 34.22



Generated By csTimer on 2020-10-05
avg of 5: 34.22

Time List:
1. (22.31) U2 L2 B2 U2 B' D2 L2 U2 F2 R2 B D' L D' F2 D' B2 L' U F R2
2. 34.58 U2 F2 U' F2 D R2 U B2 D2 R2 U' R' D' L' B L D2 R' D' R'
3. 24.09 F U2 L2 F' U2 L2 B2 L2 B D2 F' L' D U' F D2 U' B' L R2 D'
4. 44.00 U2 L D2 F R U B L2 U' D2 R2 F U2 F' R2 D2 L2 D2 F2 B R2
5. (53.01) U' R' D B' R2 B' R2 L' D' U2 F' D2 R2 B' D2 R2 F2 B' R2

The last 2 solves, was me just desperately spamming sunes and antisunes, hoping to orient the edges



Just did an average of 5 with intuitive F2L and beginner Last Layer. So, you could get an average like this (obviously the 20s didn't really happened to me at the time, I'm using the average as reference). And because you already know 4LLL you can get sub-30.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 5, 2020)

LukasCubes said:


> I suggest learning these
> 
> 
> Rubik's Cube Solution - 2 Look OLL
> ...


ok lets re-learn 4LLL again! Yay!! Will take just another 2 weeks..


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ok lets re-learn 4LLL again! Yay!! Will take just another 2 weeks..


wait you already know 4LLL?


----------



## BenChristman1 (Oct 5, 2020)

You should’ve just edited your original thread.


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 5, 2020)

BenChristman1 said:


> You should’ve just edited your original thread.


thats what i told nir-something but someone else told nir that he was confused so nir121something made this thread


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ok lets re-learn 4LLL again! Yay!! Will take just another 2 weeks..



Don't do it, just check your algs if they are good, and that's it.


----------



## SpeedyCube (Oct 6, 2020)

LukasCubes said:


> thats what i told nir-something but someone else told nir that he was confused so nir121something made this thread



I suggested it because learning to get to sub 40 is a different skill set than learning to get to sub one minute.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 6, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Don't do it, just check your algs if they are good, and that's it.


i was being sarcastic but ok


SpeedyCube said:


> I suggested it because learning to get to sub 40 is a different skill set than learning to get to sub one minute.


yup


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 6, 2020)

yeah ok


----------



## SpeedyCube (Oct 6, 2020)

Nir, what type of cube are you using? Is it magnetic? I know before you said you wanted to upgrade, but I missed it if you did or not yet.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 6, 2020)

SpeedyCube said:


> Nir, what type of cube are you using? Is it magnetic? I know before you said you wanted to upgrade, but I missed it if you did or not yet.



I think he got the RS3M 2020.


----------



## HippieCuber (Oct 6, 2020)

When I first learned intuitive f2l it was a lot slower than beginner but after about a week and a half you will get faster.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 6, 2020)

SpeedyCube said:


> Nir, what type of cube are you using? Is it magnetic? I know before you said you wanted to upgrade, but I missed it if you did or not yet.


yup magnetic


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 6, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> *This is a thread where i practice and learn cases and algs to get to sub 40.*
> Right now i learned intuitive f2l but i also need help and tips with it.
> 
> so now i have this problem where i see that before i learned intuitive f2l i had a 40 second average on f2l, so i went to learn intuitve f2l to get a lower f2l average, but now that i use intuitvte f2l my solve time is 1 minute and 30 seconds on average??
> does this need more practice or i am doing it wrong?


i like how cuberstache put eyes up in this post, the same as the sub 1 min one.
dont understand why


----------



## Jam88 (Oct 6, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i like how cuberstache put eyes up in this post, the same as the sub 1 min one.
> dont understand why


I think he does it because it is really easy to do this; all you need to do is practice, practice, practise...


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 6, 2020)

Jam88 said:


> I think he does it because it is really easy to do this; all you need to do is practice, practice, practise...


heh took him some time practice makes perfect


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 6, 2020)

What sub-x are you now and when do you think you will hit sub-40?


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 6, 2020)

LukasCubes said:


> What sub-x are you now and when do you think you will hit sub-40?



I think according to Nir's improvement rate, he will get there in maybe 3 weeks or a month.


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 6, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> I think according to Nir's improvement rate, he will get there in maybe 3 weeks or a month.


ima guess 2 weeks. I went from sub-50 LBL to sub-1:30 beginner CFOP to sub-45 in a week. I dont really remember when I first hit sub-40 but I think he will get it in 2 weeks.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 6, 2020)

i fully learned intuitive f2l and now i average f2l like a minute not sure
needs some pwactice


also i think im doing my cross very poorly. I need some help with it.


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Oct 6, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i fully learned intuitive f2l and now i average f2l like a minute not sure
> needs some pwactice


Just do lots of solves, it will come easily.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 6, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i fully learned intuitive f2l and now i average f2l like a minute not sure
> needs some pwactice
> 
> 
> also i think im doing my cross very poorly. I need some help with it.



As @WarriorCatCuber said, practice and solves will help with F2L. And also, do you do the daisy to do the cross?


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 6, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> As @WarriorCatCuber said, practice and solves will help with F2L. And also, do you do the daisy to do the cross?


no i do cross immediatly and its 100% always down but its a bit sluggish so yea

i do the f2l in 1 minute and 27 seconds around that time im just so slow to recognize and execute the cases, needs some time and practice your right.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 6, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> no i do cross immediatly and its 100% always down but its a bit sluggish so yea
> 
> i do the f2l in 1 minute and 27 seconds around that time im just so slow to recognize and execute the cases, needs some time and practice your right.



From personal experience I improved my cross by just doing untimed solves and used unlimited inspection to plan it, and this will also help you with your understanding of how pieces work and how to place them in certain places.



Spoiler: Cross video by Brodythecuber


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 7, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> From personal experience I improve my cross by just doing untimed solves and used unlimited inspection to plan it, and this will also help you with your understanding of how pieces work and how to place them in certain places.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Cross video by Brodythecuber


i make too much rotations but this helped me.


haha now im doing like sub 50 f2l solves getting there
by next morning i'll probably be around 40 seconds like before!
then after that i will learn f2l tricks to lower it even MORE


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 7, 2020)

oh ok the mods moved the 2 threads here now i know that i can continue this thread
was not sure if i could continue it here or on a dif page


----------



## WarriorCatCuber (Oct 7, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i make too much rotations but this helped me.
> 
> 
> haha now im doing like sub 50 f2l solves getting there
> ...


Well, no. I'd say when your F2L takes 40 seconds, don't bother learning any extra tricks. Try getting it to 30 seconds first


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 7, 2020)

WarriorCatCuber said:


> Well, no. I'd say when your F2L takes 40 seconds, don't bother learning any extra tricks. Try getting it to 30 seconds first


ok fine
i think i also need to lower my recog time for it too cause i take time in that

also my cross time is 9 seconds on avg is that good or do i need to lower it?


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 8, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ok fine
> i think i also need to lower my recog time for it too cause i take time in that
> 
> also my cross time is 9 seconds on avg is that good or do i need to lower it?


Ok yes you should. Try just sitting down, do handscrambles, and do a 50 solve session only cross. Have unlimited inspection time, by the time you are done you should be around 4 to 5 seconds.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 8, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Ok yes you should. Try just sitting down, do handscrambles, and do a 50 solve session only cross. Have unlimited inspection time, by the time you are done you should be around 4 to 5 seconds.


should i look ahead my cross?


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 8, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> should i look ahead my cross?



If you are saying about look ahead in F2L and during cross, then you're not ready for that, that's more advanced things for people that are sub-25 (F2L look ahead) and for sub-20 or sub-15 (cross to F2L transition).

As @Spacey10 mentioned, just do handscrambles and practice your cross with unlimited inspection.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 11, 2020)

i took a break for 2 days from cubing a bit and then just practiced and like whaaaat

haha sub 40 gonn' be a breeze
assuming that i do an average on 15 seconds in 4LLL, which means i just might be able to get sub 40
or maybe i can improve my 4LLL
my cross was reduced to 7 seconds but i cant lower it anymore to 5 or 6 seconds tho anyway


----------



## SpeedyCube (Oct 11, 2020)

Yeahwhooo! Congrats man, told ya you’d make it!


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 11, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i took a break for 2 days from cubing a bit and then just practiced and like whaaaat
> View attachment 13619
> haha sub 40 gonn' be a breeze
> assuming that i do an average on 15 seconds in 4LLL, which means i just might be able to get sub 40
> ...


:O lol almost sub 30!


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 12, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> :O lol almost sub 30!


haha sub 40 go brrrrrr
almost feels lik cubing is ez


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 12, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i took a break for 2 days from cubing a bit and then just practiced and like whaaaat
> View attachment 13619
> haha sub 40 gonn' be a breeze
> assuming that i do an average on 15 seconds in 4LLL, which means i just might be able to get sub 40
> ...



That's something similar to what happened to me, I was averaging 16s but didn't really time my solves because I was working on colour neutrality and after 3 weeks suddenly I was sub-15.

Anyway, congrats!!!


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 12, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> That's something similar to what happened to me, I was averaging 16s but didn't really time my solves because I was working on colour neutrality and after 3 weeks suddenly I was sub-15.
> 
> Anyway, congrats!!!


ive actually got my cross times down to 3 sec somehow, but i have a problem. I kinda go fast and then it takes me some time to recognize a case and i hesitate a bit, does that come down to practice or slow solving?


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 12, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ive actually got my cross times down to 3 sec somehow, but i have a problem. I kinda go fast and then it takes me some time to recognize a case and i hesitate a bit, does that come down to practice or slow solving?



Mostly I think slow solving, and then little by little, you speed up your turning speed. That's kinda like how you start learning how to look ahead. And that probably will reduce your pauses as it did to mine and probably to other people too.

Well, and also solves to get the cases and algs into your muscle memory.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 12, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Mostly I think slow solving, and then little by little, you speed up your turning speed. That's kinda like how you start learning how to look ahead. And that probably will reduce your pauses as it did to mine and probably to other people too.
> 
> Well, and also solves to get the cases and algs into your muscle memory.


oh cool

now im averaging 35 seconds on f2l so i think the sub 30 average was me being lucky
i think my biggest problem is that when i finish my cross i look for my first corner and edge pair and it takes me a while, then i find the others super fast
basically im getting slow at first then i go fast
i need to balance it so i consistently can find my pairs and execute them properly.
so im practicing and i realized when i do my best i can only get around 30 - 32 seconds at best when i do full step intuitive f2l
i got lower before because i was lucky
so i guess thats my goal
i do 35 - 38 seconds right now.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 17, 2020)

sorry for double posting but i dont want to edit the other post to much
can someone critique my f2l solves. I feel like im getting sloppy.


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 17, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> sorry for double posting but i dont want to edit the other post to much
> can someone critique my f2l solves. I feel like im getting sloppy.


Yeah send one in this thread, that way we can all give tips.


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 17, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i took a break for 2 days from cubing a bit and then just practiced and like whaaaat
> View attachment 13619
> haha sub 40 gonn' be a breeze
> assuming that i do an average on 15 seconds in 4LLL, which means i just might be able to get sub 40
> ...


woah


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 17, 2020)

here it is.
the time is 25.13 seconds
so can someone critique me?


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 17, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> here it is.
> the time is 25.13 seconds


yo you gettin there congrats


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 18, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> here it is.
> the time is 25.13 seconds
> so can someone critique me?


You are hesitating too much. Whenever you hesitate, don't think so random stuff, what you think is correct.


----------



## LukasCubes (Oct 18, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> here it is.
> the time is 25.13 seconds
> so can someone critique me?


recon?


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 18, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> here it is.
> the time is 25.13 seconds
> so can someone critique me?



As @Spacey10 said, you are hesitating on whether you should do a certain pair in a certain way or not. And also you're rotating to make and insert pairs and also lots of U moves to find pieces.

I think for now you just need lots of practice and that's it. because at your level you don't really need other techniques like look ahead and stuff, and it can result a bit overwheming right now.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 18, 2020)

my average is around 28 to 29 seconds, sometimes a 27 but i want to get a 25 second average of f2l. But I dont seem to get better as im just getting the same results
any tips on how to improve my f2l?


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 21, 2020)

soooo i need help with a particular f2l case
note: im using intuitive f2l not advanced so dont go all alg-wise on me.
This is the one where if you do the alg the intuitive way, but when you do the alg for this to pair up the pairs, you get a flipped edge pair. I know how to avoid this but i dont know how to recognize this when im solving.


----------



## Spacey10 (Oct 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> soooo i need help with a particular f2l caseView attachment 13922
> note: im using intuitive f2l not advanced so dont go all alg-wise on me.
> This is the one where if you do the alg the intuitive way, but when you do the alg for this to pair up the pairs, you get a flipped edge pair. I know how to avoid this but i dont know how to recognize this when im solving.


Look at color on front and color on top. They must be different.
U2 R U R' U R U' R'


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> soooo i need help with a particular f2l caseView attachment 13922
> note: im using intuitive f2l not advanced so dont go all alg-wise on me.
> This is the one where if you do the alg the intuitive way, but when you do the alg for this to pair up the pairs, you get a flipped edge pair. I know how to avoid this but i dont know how to recognize this when im solving.



If you look at the top color of the edge, you'll see it's red then the other color would be green so you take that green color of the edge towards it's corresponding center by doing U2 (this U move could vary depending on where the edge is located.) And then you do the alg @Spacey10 gave you, that goes like this: R U R' U R U' R'

You could also get this case except the green edge is on top and the red is on the side, so you would pretty much do the same except you probably will need to rotate to avoid F moves.


----------



## BenChristman1 (Oct 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> soooo i need help with a particular f2l caseView attachment 13922
> note: im using intuitive f2l not advanced so dont go all alg-wise on me.
> This is the one where if you do the alg the intuitive way, but when you do the alg for this to pair up the pairs, you get a flipped edge pair. I know how to avoid this but i dont know how to recognize this when im solving.


You could start with @Spacey10’s alg with U2 R U R’, but then if you want to influence LL edges (basically if you are going to get a dot case) you can do R’ F R F’ (which would cancel into U2 R U R2 F R F’) at the end to orient the 2 edges that are above the F2L pair.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 21, 2020)

Spacey10 said:


> Look at color on front and color on top. They must be different.
> U2 R U R' U R U' R'





Skewb_Cube said:


> If you look at the top color of the edge, you'll see it's red then the other color would be green so you take that green color of the edge towards it's corresponding center by doing U2 (this U move could vary depending on where the edge is located.) And then you do the alg @Spacey10 gave you, that goes like this: R U R' U R U' R'
> 
> You could also get this case except the green edge is on top and the red is on the side, so you would pretty much do the same except you probably will need to rotate to avoid F moves.





BenChristman1 said:


> You could start with @Spacey10’s alg with U2 R U R’, but then if you want to influence LL edges (basically if you are going to get a dot case) you can do R’ F R F’ (which would cancel into U2 R U R2 F R F’) at the end to orient the 2 edges that are above the F2L pair.



soo the rcog is when both of the pieces are different colors on top?
oh oof i posted the wrong case i mean the one when both of the colors are the same but thanks anyway.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> soo the rcog is when both of the pieces are different colors on top?
> oh oof i posted the wrong case i mean the one when both of the colors are the same but thanks anyway.



But what case specifically? Can you provide an image of the case you're now refering to?


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 21, 2020)




----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


>



In that case, the alg is: y U2 L' U' L U' L' U

The last three moves can be change to an sledgehammer as @BenChristman1 mentioned. I also recommend to execute the 2 algs we gave you slowly so you see how the pieces pair up in this cases.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 21, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> In that case, the alg is: y U2 L' U' L U' L' U
> 
> The last three moves can be change to an sledgehammer as @BenChristman1 mentioned. I also recommend to execute the 2 algs we gave you slowly so you see how the pieces pair up in this cases.


my right hand is dominant and i dont like rotations and also this one is shorter so i will use U' F' U2 F and then i will insert it either URUR or RFRF depending on the oll case.
only downside is that it takes out the back slot if its already solved so i have to move the edge.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> my right hand is dominant and i dont like rotations and also this one is shorter so i will use U' F' U2 F and then i will insert it either URUR or RFRF depending on the oll case.
> only downside is that it takes out the back slot if its already solved so i have to move the edge.



Rotating isn't really bad at all, the thing is to not rotate too much, imo it's better to rotate instead of using F moves during F2L. And I think it's better for you to practice with your left hand because during F2L, the cross or in the last layer there are algs or just moves that require using L moves.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 21, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Rotating isn't really bad at all, the thing is to not rotate too much, imo it's better to rotate instead of using F moves during F2L. And I think it's better for you to practice with your left hand because during F2L, the cross or in the last layer there are algs or just moves that require using L moves.


your right but rotating or using f moves are the same time so i just picked because i liked f moves.
your right about the l moves but im still gonna use the alg cause its very short and easy to execute.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> your right but rotating or using f moves are the same time so i just picked because i liked f moves.
> your right about the l moves but im still gonna use the alg cause its very short and easy to execute.



But make sure to have the right fingertricks for those F moves or else it isn't going to be very good.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 21, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> But make sure to have the right fingertricks for those F moves or else it isn't going to be very good.


i think im just going to switch occasionly on those algs whenever i feel like it during a solve.
Doing f moves isnt the best way always.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 21, 2020)

funny you know the alg in beginners method that orients all the edges with the right color, its also a zbll alg when you have sune on top and the color edges are oriented

edit: stupid comment i see


anyway my f2l practice is not getting anywhere so thats probably where i hit the limit for me.
All im getting are either a 29 second f2l average or a 31, which averages about to 30 seconds which it takes me to do f2l.
I do around 10 second average with 4LLL so its gonna be hard to get sub 40 consistently but i can certainly get sub 50 easily.
im going to send a video of my f2l again because i dont know what to do, practice is not getting me anywhere.


Spoiler: suprising results



edit: Ah yes the moment when you lose all hope only do your dreams come true

first sub 25 aO5 f2l

but i just prob got lucky i still need help


HAHA VERY FUNNY HOW DID I EVEN GET A 26 F2L a012
i guess that this is a sign of improvement never mind no videos
actually i will for the fun of it to see if i can get even more better


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 24, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> funny you know the alg in beginners method that orients all the edges with the right color, its also a zbll alg when you have sune on top and the color edges are oriented
> 
> edit: stupid comment i see
> 
> ...




after the suprising results im am getting more and more better!

my f2l time is avg is getting better and better


Edit: I finally accomplished my f2l goal!

sub 25 ao5 and also sub 25 ao12 f2l.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 27, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> after the suprising results im am getting more and more better!
> View attachment 13945
> my f2l time is avg is getting better and better
> 
> ...


my avg has dropped down to 27 which is a bit worse but the scrambles were unlucky so its still safe to assume i do f2l around 25 seconds.
ive done 100 f2l solves, i think thats enough, for now im going to do full solves.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 27, 2020)

i did comps first time and my ao5 for 3x3 was 37.30! Pretty cool
Im just sooo close to sub 40


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i did comps first time and my ao5 for 3x3 was 37.30! Pretty cool
> Im just sooo close to sub 40


im done with my homework and all that and im planning to grind whole solves to get sub 40.
But before that, i want you guys to critique a w_hole_ solve of mine.


----------



## Zain_A24 (Oct 28, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> im done with my homework and all that and im planning to grind whole solves to get sub 40.
> But before that, i want you guys to critique a w_hole_ solve of mine.


Sure. We'll be happy to have a look and provide feedback. Congrats on the first comp.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

Zain_A24 said:


> Sure. We'll be happy to have a look and provide feedback. Congrats on the first comp.


thanks!


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

for some reason my times went even lower and now my f2l time is 30 
why is this happening?


----------



## Zain_A24 (Oct 28, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> for some reason my times went even lower and now my f2l time is 30
> why is this happening?


Your times will fluctuate, and that's normal. Everyone has good days and bad days. I'm sure your times will drop fast once your F2L becomes more fluid.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

Zain_A24 said:


> Your times will fluctuate, and that's normal. Everyone has good days and bad days. I'm sure your times will drop fast once your F2L becomes more fluid.


yes but i cant really get better now 25 is basically my limit but im just slower now which is annoying since i cannot get any better. My hands are not stiff and my cube is fine. But i seem to turn slower.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 28, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yes but i cant really get better now 25 is basically my limit but im just slower now which is annoying since i cannot get any better. My hands are not stiff and my cube is fine. But i seem to turn slower.



If your times are a bit slower then maybe you're tired or a bit demotivated, that happened to me a while ago and just took a 1 day break and my times were back to normal after that little break. To improve your F2L I would recommend just doing a bunch of normal solves which that helped me a lot, even though that may just work for some people.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> If your times are a bit slower then maybe you're tired or a bit demotivated, that happened to me a while ago and just took a 1 day break and my times were back to normal after that little break. To improve your F2L I would recommend just doing a bunch of normal solves which that helped me a lot, even though that may just work for some people.


im not demotivated though.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

i found out my problem its because im hesitating too much during my solves.
how do i stop hesitating?


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## Skewb_Cube (Oct 28, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> im not demotivated though.


That's why I mentioned tired or demotivated.



Nir1213 said:


> i found out my problem its because im hesitating too much during my solves.
> how do i stop hesitating?



Maybe by drilling the algs and cases you do during F2L so you're more confident or sure on what you're about to do.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> That's why I mentioned tired or demotivated.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe by drilling the algs and cases you do during F2L so you're more confident or sure on what you're about to do.


yea your right but i sometimes i have many choices and i just dont know what to do
edit: I found if i relax a bit and not focus that hard i start to get okay times.


----------



## Deleted member 54663 (Oct 28, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i did comps first time and my ao5 for 3x3 was 37.30! Pretty cool
> Im just sooo close to sub 40


Where did you do a comp? I would love to, and I average high 15/16s.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

JP cubing said:


> Where did you do a comp? I would love to, and I average high 15/16s.


i mean online comp


----------



## Deleted member 54663 (Oct 28, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i mean online comp


exactly where? with friends or


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 28, 2020)

JP cubing said:


> exactly where? with friends or



I think he's refering to the Weekly Competitions held in the forums. At the top bar it says "Home, Forums and then Competition" click competitions and you'll be taken to a page were there's many events to compete in.

And I think there's a random winner of a $15 gift card from The Cubicle if you compete.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

im going to send a video soon btw on sec..


----------



## Multicubing (Oct 28, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> *This is a thread where i practice and learn cases and algs to get to sub 40.*
> Right now i learned intuitive f2l but i also need help and tips with it.
> 
> so now i have this problem where i see that before i learned intuitive f2l i had a 40 second average on f2l, so i went to learn intuitve f2l to get a lower f2l average, but now that i use intuitvte f2l my solve time is 1 minute and 30 seconds on average??
> does this need more practice or i am doing it wrong?



Solving the Rubik's Cube faster has been and always will be my goal. Check out my "speedcubing" tutorial!






I am certainly not the fastest, but I am sure that you can pick up something that will help you. I guarantee sub-40 if you practice!


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 28, 2020)

Ok here is my full solve video.





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the sound is the stackmat in the microphone sorry just mute the volume.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 29, 2020)

Multicubing said:


> Solving the Rubik's Cube faster has been and always will be my goal. Check out my "speedcubing" tutorial!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thx for the video! But it seems that some of your 2 look olls and plls are not move optimal. For the bowtie alg, its reccomended that you use this. F' r U R' U' L' U R. Also the plls you got, with 4 edges not oriented, and its like two of them are switched you use M2' U M2' U M' U2 M2' U2 M' U2. The pll that has one edge solved, you can just rotate so that the solved side is at the back and you dont have to use b moves
your f2l is fine though. You can get better solutions for the last layer.

Sorry if it looked like im teaching you, just some suggestions.
The tips you gave me i already was taught, but thanks anyway. Your times are like mine.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 29, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Ok here is my full solve video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you need to drill your F2L algs and cases a bit more because you're hesitating a bit and doing unnecessary U turns. Then you're tilting the cube to find pieces which is fine but is better to avoid that. And during your last layer you are rotating to execute an alg which during last layer is bad, that can be fixed by doing a U turn to have a better angle for the alg and then do AUF.



Spoiler: A J Perm video on bad habits



*The video contains some solves which are more advanced so it's not necessary for you to watch them, mostly just watch the first part of the video were he explains something about reducing bad habits.*


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 29, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> I think you need to drill your F2L algs and cases a bit more because you're hesitating a bit and doing unnecessary U turns. Then you're tilting the cube to find pieces which is fine but is better to avoid that. And during your last layer you are rotating to execute an alg which during last layer is bad, that can be fixed by doing a U turn to have a better angle for the alg and then do AUF.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i know i do the u turns to see what f2l case it is. Your right about drilling the algs ima do that after finish school
i rotate for no reason on LL even though i know i should do U turns
i have to tilt so i can see the pieces but i can do that by doing wide D, but its awkward for me.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 29, 2020)

also is there a regripless sune alg i cant find one. I do rur then i have to regrip to do the rest


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 29, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> also is there a regripless sune alg i cant find one. I do rur then i have to regrip to do the rest



This is the standard sune alg, I think: *R U R' U R U2 R'



Spoiler: Fingertricks










*


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 29, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> This is the standard sune alg, I think: *R U R' U R U2 R'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks i will be working on the fingertrick
sooo i do it like this?




__





Gofile - Free file sharing and storage platform


Gofile is a free file sharing and storage platform. You can store and share your content of any type without any limit.




gofile.io




warning: mute volume unless you want your eardrums to explode


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 29, 2020)

guys i think i should learn look ahead
because when i cube i have to look everywhere for f2l pieces which takes alot of time.
Look ahead will help me locate f2l pieces faster.


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 29, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> guys i think i should learn look ahead
> because when i cube i have to look everywhere for f2l pieces which takes alot of time.
> Look ahead will help me locate f2l pieces faster.



no don't yet
Look Ahead is a DISTRACTION - YouTube


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Oct 29, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> thanks i will be working on the fingertrick
> sooo i do it like this?
> 
> 
> ...



Pretty much, except that you should learn how to do U2s by doing the first U with the index and then the next one with the middle finger.



Nir1213 said:


> guys i think i should learn look ahead
> because when i cube i have to look everywhere for f2l pieces which takes alot of time.
> Look ahead will help me locate f2l pieces faster.



You could, but I wouldn't recommend it right now because you aren't sub-40 yet, it's better to learn how to look-ahead when you're like sub-30 or sub-25


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 29, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Pretty much, except that you should learn how to do U2s by doing the first U with the index and then the next one with the middle finger.
> 
> 
> 
> You could, but I wouldn't recommend it right now because you aren't sub-40 yet, it's better to learn how to look-ahead when you're like sub-30 or sub-25



I'm sub 20 and barely starting it


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 29, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> Pretty much, except that you should learn how to do U2s by doing the first U with the index and then the next one with the middle finger.
> 
> 
> 
> You could, but I wouldn't recommend it right now because you aren't sub-40 yet, it's better to learn how to look-ahead when you're like sub-30 or sub-25


yea but im practicing the f2l algs and i keep pausing.


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 29, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yea but im practicing the f2l algs and i keep pausing.



cause you need to work on recognition


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 29, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> cause you need to work on recognition


ok i will

So i have been practicing my recog and now i seem to barely make much pauses, there are only some little pauses. How I did this is by just slowing down a little then i just solved. It seemed to have helped alot.

Im getting nice averages


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 30, 2020)

i still have a problem. I cant just see two pieces and recall how to do it *immediately*, it takes me time and i just do unnecesary turns. Im practicing my f2l but it keeps happening and I dont know how to solve it. Help!


----------



## Deleted member 54663 (Oct 31, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i still have a problem. I cant just see two pieces and recall how to do it *immediately*, it takes me time and i just do unnecesary turns. Im practicing my f2l but it keeps happening and I dont know how to solve it. Help!


The only solution is slow solves and practice, watch jperm's videos about lookahead to fix it. You don't need to "look ahead", but try to turn slowly and recognize cases.


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

JP cubing said:


> The only solution is slow solves and practice, watch jperm's videos about lookahead to fix it. You don't need to "look ahead", but try to turn slowly and recognize cases.


thank you alot!


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 31, 2020)

dm me a video of you doing 1 or 2 solves, i'll try to see what exactly you're doing wrong


----------



## Zubin Park (Oct 31, 2020)

... or you could dm me if you wanted to as well


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> dm me a video of you doing 1 or 2 solves, i'll try to see what exactly you're doing wrong





Zubin Park said:


> ... or you could dm me if you wanted to as well


sorry i dont have money lol 
jk i do have money but im saving it for maybe buying cubes


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 31, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> sorry i dont have money lol
> jk i do have money but im saving it for maybe buying cubes


na I dont charge


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> na I dont charge


ok phew


----------



## Zubin Park (Oct 31, 2020)

Same lol


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

hey how about i post 2 solves here so you both can review them.


----------



## Zubin Park (Oct 31, 2020)

Sure! You'll get feedback from a sub-20 and a sub-8 solver!


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

Zubin Park said:


> Sure! You'll get feedback from a sub-20 and a sub-8 solver!


not that i see any difference in your times lol


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 31, 2020)

yea




Zubin Park said:


> Sure! You'll get feedback from a sub-20 and a sub-8 solver!



excuse me, I prefer to say sub 19.5 solver


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> yea
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sorry you meant sub 18.37 solver


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 31, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> sorry you meant sub 18.37 solver


no that aint my average


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> no that aint my average


soo you lied about your average?


----------



## Zubin Park (Oct 31, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> soo you lied about your average?


ooooo someone LiEd?


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

Zubin Park said:


> ooooo someone LiEd?


if you look at his profile in his accomplishments it says his 3x3 average of 12 is 18.26
lying but to make yourself look worse lol


----------



## BenChristman1 (Oct 31, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> if you look at his profile in his accomplishments it says his 3x3 average of 12 is 18.26
> lying but to make yourself look worse lol


An ao12 isn’t what you globally average. If that were true, I would be sub-15.


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 31, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> if you look at his profile in his accomplishments it says his 3x3 average of 12 is 18.26
> lying but to make yourself look worse lol



no thats my pb average not my global average. I am around 19.25 regularly but yes, thats my pb ao12


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

TheSlykrCubr said:


> no thats my pb average not my global average. I am around 19.25 regularly but yes, thats my pb ao12


ohh ok then
global average is what you normally average.


----------



## TheSlykrCubr (Oct 31, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ohh ok then
> global average is what you normally average.



yes


----------



## Nir1213 (Oct 31, 2020)

here it is:








easyupload.io


easyupload.io




easyupload.io




i was wearing a mario hat lol
warning mute the volume


----------



## Nir1213 (Nov 2, 2020)

so in my f2l i have been improved a little bit, going from around 28 seconds in f2l, to 23 - 25 seconds around f2l. But then after that my solves started plateuing, so i think i cannot improve my solves with intuitive f2l now at this point, and i think its enough right now. Im planning on improving my 4LLL like maybe 8 seconds since its like 12 seconds and i think it can be improved.


----------



## Zubin Park (Nov 2, 2020)

I'll take a look at your video today, try to get back to you by tomorrow.


----------



## Nir1213 (Nov 3, 2020)

Zubin Park said:


> I'll take a look at your video today, try to get back to you by tomorrow.


did you look at it yet?


----------



## Zubin Park (Nov 3, 2020)

Here's what I thought in general
Cross: Too many R'FR, the almost sledge for putting in "bad" cross pieces. Although it's ok sometimes, it is best to put in two pieces at once, and it is beneficial to review blind crosses. Also, too many rotations. It's not always bad to use B moves, and you seem to favor seeing the cross piece, signaling myself that you aren't memorizing the cross during inspection.
f2l: Firstly, your algs to solve the pairs aren't too bad, obviously there could be more efficient ones. The biggest time-waster is looking for the pair. You rotate at least once for every pair, and you have to look for the most efficient pair at your angle when you finish the cross. Basically, try to cut down cross-f2l transition by memo your cross during inspection and look for your f2l at LEAST while you put in your last 2 edges, although it should be during the entire cross.
oll: I assume you use 2 look, and it's fine. I can't really see if you use that algs I use for oll, but your speed is fine, especially for your average times.
pll: I think you do 2 look, you should really start full PLL if possible. you rotated too much for the final U,H,Z perm. This kills a solid 2.5 sec of your average. Try to learn what perm you have to do from any angle. U perms are easy because the corners are oriented so you just have to see where the front edge has to go.

Overall, not too much positive, but that's ok. You'll get better by solving and practicing. I can go more in-depth if you'd like, but it might not be worth it for you especially at your stage of cubing.


----------



## Nir1213 (Nov 3, 2020)

Zubin Park said:


> Here's what I thought in general
> Cross: Too many R'FR, the almost sledge for putting in "bad" cross pieces. Although it's ok sometimes, it is best to put in two pieces at once, and it is beneficial to review blind crosses. Also, too many rotations. It's not always bad to use B moves, and you seem to favor seeing the cross piece, signaling myself that you aren't memorizing the cross during inspection.
> f2l: Firstly, your algs to solve the pairs aren't too bad, obviously there could be more efficient ones. The biggest time-waster is looking for the pair. You rotate at least once for every pair, and you have to look for the most efficient pair at your angle when you finish the cross. Basically, try to cut down cross-f2l transition by memo your cross during inspection and look for your f2l at LEAST while you put in your last 2 edges, although it should be during the entire cross.
> oll: I assume you use 2 look, and it's fine. I can't really see if you use that algs I use for oll, but your speed is fine, especially for your average times.
> ...


yea im not sure how to fix my cross i do cross in 5 seconds and its trash
the f2l i kinda stumble upon so yea
i rotate the Z perm and H perm cause if i turn it the corners are not in the right spot which makes it a little harder to recog. If I have a h perm and i turn i would have to AUF to solve the cube.


----------



## MJS Cubing (Nov 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yea im not sure how to fix my cross i do cross in 5 seconds and its trash
> the f2l i kinda stumble upon so yea
> i rotate the Z perm and H perm cause if i turn it the corners are not in the right spot which makes it a little harder to recog. If I have a h perm and i turn i would have to AUF to solve the cube.


A HUGE part of being fast is cross. I learned an efficient cross and dropped my times by about 3 seconds. I would recommend that before anything. Also, the sooner you learn to be color neutral, the easier it will be to learn. I am almost sub 20 on white and yellow cross, but because I am not color neutral, it takes a lot to learn to be color near trial because the f2l pairs being different colors really screws up your look ahead.
Heres a playlist to a better cross


----------



## Nir1213 (Nov 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> yea im not sure how to fix my cross i do cross in 5 seconds and its trash
> the f2l i kinda stumble upon so yea
> i rotate the Z perm and H perm cause if i turn it the corners are not in the right spot which makes it a little harder to recog. If I have a h perm and i turn i would have to AUF to solve the cube.


i also inspect the cross edges that are closest to me but i just forget about the farther ones, and then i rotate to find the cross pieces.


----------



## Skewb_Cube (Nov 3, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i rotate the Z perm and H perm cause if i turn it the corners are not in the right spot which makes it a little harder to recog. If I have a h perm and i turn i would have to AUF to solve the cube.



It's better to AUF instead of rotating because it only involves doing a U, U' or a U2. And recognition isn't hard, if you see, every side has headlights so you just need to see where the edge should go.


----------



## Nir1213 (Nov 3, 2020)

Skewb_Cube said:


> It's better to AUF instead of rotating because it only involves doing a U, U' or a U2. And recognition isn't hard, if you see, every side has headlights so you just need to see where the edge should go.


oh wait it is easy. You just got to see the pll patterns, kinda like cp recog.



MJS Cubing said:


> A HUGE part of being fast is cross. I learned an efficient cross and dropped my times by about 3 seconds. I would recommend that before anything. Also, the sooner you learn to be color neutral, the easier it will be to learn. I am almost sub 20 on white and yellow cross, but because I am not color neutral, it takes a lot to learn to be color near trial because the f2l pairs being different colors really screws up your look ahead.
> Heres a playlist to a better cross





Zubin Park said:


> Here's what I thought in general
> Cross: Too many R'FR, the almost sledge for putting in "bad" cross pieces. Although it's ok sometimes, it is best to put in two pieces at once, and it is beneficial to review blind crosses. Also, too many rotations. It's not always bad to use B moves, and you seem to favor seeing the cross piece, signaling myself that you aren't memorizing the cross during inspection.
> f2l: Firstly, your algs to solve the pairs aren't too bad, obviously there could be more efficient ones. The biggest time-waster is looking for the pair. You rotate at least once for every pair, and you have to look for the most efficient pair at your angle when you finish the cross. Basically, try to cut down cross-f2l transition by memo your cross during inspection and look for your f2l at LEAST while you put in your last 2 edges, although it should be during the entire cross.
> oll: I assume you use 2 look, and it's fine. I can't really see if you use that algs I use for oll, but your speed is fine, especially for your average times.
> ...


Thank you guys for the help! I took the advice and the cross video, and it helped my cross get down more than a second!
now before i did crosses around 5.5 seconds, now i do 4.3 - 4.5 seconds. Do you think i should get it down to around 3 seconds or is it fine?
also the B moves in cross advice @Zubin Park umm whenever I try to do it, its awkward and not fingertrick friendly.
Not sure how to do the B moves without regripping which could take off valuable time.


----------



## Zubin Park (Nov 5, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> Thank you guys for the help! I took the advice and the cross video, and it helped my cross get down more than a second!
> now before i did crosses around 5.5 seconds, now i do 4.3 - 4.5 seconds. Do you think i should get it down to around 3 seconds or is it fine?
> also the B moves in cross advice @Zubin Park umm whenever I try to do it, its awkward and not fingertrick friendly.
> Not sure how to do the B moves without regripping which could take off valuable time.


I'm just saying B move is better than rotating twice to do an F move, which I saw in your solves. If you can select a better cross, however, B moves aren't needed.


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## Nir1213 (Nov 5, 2020)

Zubin Park said:


> I'm just saying B move is better than rotating twice to do an F move, which I saw in your solves. If you can select a better cross, however, B moves aren't needed.


i do sometimes the b moves but its only to orient the cross edge in a better position.

i think its fine for my cross to be about 4 seconds, and my f2l is around 24 seconds, which makes me have to do last layer at least 12 seconds to be sub 40.
I may improve on my cross if you think i should improve more though.
Im just gonna do last layer and cross practice, and meanwhile also f2l.

also in one of your tips said that i should improve my cross to f2l transition by finding some pair pieces while solving cross. How do I do that effiencently?
also im going to start learning full pll. Im going with jperm cause wynot?

edit: I found that when i inspect cross i just close my eyes and visualize the cross pieces, and then while i make the moves i can actually solve cross with my eyes closed cause i can see them in my head, pretty cool right. Its the same with f2l. 
Might help with cross or f2l.


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## abunickabhi (Nov 6, 2020)

Is beginner CFOP easier to teach or beginner Roux easier to teach?


----------



## RiceMan_ (Nov 6, 2020)

abunickabhi said:


> Is beginner CFOP easier to teach or beginner Roux easier to teach?


I feel like beginner CFOP would be easier to teach


----------



## Seth1448 (Nov 6, 2020)

What is your average?


----------



## Kaneki Uchiha (Nov 7, 2020)

I think roux would be easier to teach needs only two algs and beginner blocks are essentially just edge+pairs. Lse would be hard to explain though


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## Nir1213 (Nov 7, 2020)

guys im going to improve on my cross and all that, can someone please review my solve videos and see where i can improve my f2l on? My algs might not also be the best.
After improvement on f2l im going to start to learn full pll.


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## Zaphod42 (Nov 12, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> *This is a thread where i practice and learn cases and algs to get to sub 40.*
> Right now i learned intuitive f2l but i also need help and tips with it.
> 
> so now i have this problem where i see that before i learned intuitive f2l i had a 40 second average on f2l, so i went to learn intuitve f2l to get a lower f2l average, but now that i use intuitvte f2l my solve time is 1 minute and 30 seconds on average??
> does this need more practice or i am doing it wrong?


Just practice and practice and practice i used to average 5 minutes with intuitive f2l and 4lll and after grinding solves i now have a 25 second average


----------



## Nir1213 (Nov 12, 2020)

Zaphod42 said:


> Just practice and practice and practice i used to average 5 minutes with intuitive f2l and 4lll and after grinding solves i now have a 25 second average


ok but im already sub 40 basically i need to get sub 30 

all right im going to practice cross + 1, then when i get that down i will start to learn full pll.


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## Seth1448 (Nov 13, 2020)

wheres the link to the the videos


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## Zaphod42 (Nov 13, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ok but im already sub 40 basically i need to get sub 30


Continue practicing and you will average sub 30 before you know it.


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## Nir1213 (Nov 13, 2020)

here it is.


Nir1213 said:


> here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Zubin Park (Nov 13, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> all right im going to practice cross + 1, then when i get that down i will start to learn full pll.


Why cross+1? I don't even use it that much in my solves. Not worth it for your level.


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## Nir1213 (Nov 13, 2020)

Zubin Park said:


> Why cross+1? I don't even use it that much in my solves. Not worth it for your level.





> and you have to look for the most efficient pair at your angle when you finish the cross. Basically, try to cut down cross-f2l transition by memo your cross during inspection and look for your f2l at LEAST while you put in your last 2 edges, although it should be during the entire cross.



arrgghh i cant track the f2l pieces while i do cross. I can do cross without looking, well most of it, but i cant track the pieces cause its so hard.


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## Zaphod42 (Nov 14, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> arrgghh i cant track the f2l pieces while i do cross. I can do cross without looking, well most of it, but i cant track the pieces cause its so hard.


Neither can i


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## Nir1213 (Nov 30, 2020)

guys do you think my f2l should be at 20 seconds to get sub 30 with CFOP? or lower? Just asking.


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## Skewb_Cube (Nov 30, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> guys do you think my f2l should be at 20 seconds to get sub 30 with CFOP? or lower? Just asking.



Probably. This can be done by handscrambling the cube and then doing the cross and F2L, and so on. You could also do slow solves to reduce your flaws and avoid doing many mistakes instead of turning fast.

And if you feel that your recognition and fingertricks for last layer cases are quite slow or bad then you could also practice that.


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## DiamondGolem12 (Nov 30, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> guys do you think my f2l should be at 20 seconds to get sub 30 with CFOP? or lower? Just asking.


I just reached sub 30,and my F2L is about 16 seconds, but my last layer is quite slow. It depends how good your other steps are, but as a general guide your cross should take 5% of your solve, F2l should be 55%, OLL 20% and PLL 20%.


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## ZB2op (Nov 30, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> guys do you think my f2l should be at 20 seconds to get sub 30 with CFOP? or lower? Just asking.


The splits suggested by Jperm in this video Rubik's Cube: 5 Tips to be Sub-30 on 3x3 (+helpful links) - YouTube 
are 
Coss: 4
F2l:16
Oll:4
Pll:6


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## Nir1213 (Nov 30, 2020)

ZB2op said:


> The splits suggested by Jperm in this video Rubik's Cube: 5 Tips to be Sub-30 on 3x3 (+helpful links) - YouTube
> are
> Cross: 4
> F2l:16
> ...


my cross is 4.5, my f2l is around 16 - 19,
and my last layer is around 8.


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## ZB2op (Dec 1, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> my cross is 4.5, my f2l is around 16 - 19,
> and my last layer is around 8.


Well then improve your cross and f2l


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## Nir1213 (Dec 2, 2020)

ZB2op said:


> Well then improve your cross and f2l


not helping.



aight i think my cross is fine, doesnt have to be 4 seconds flat. F2L is a problem, though. I get stuck on 22 - 24 seconds, and i think a way to fix that is to have less regrips and learn more advanced cases, i should also be used to inserting pairs into the back slot.

For LL im going to learn full PLL, but not yet.


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## Kaneki Uchiha (Dec 2, 2020)

at your level timing and improving certain areas of your solve is quite useless. The best way to improve at 30s ish is just to do solves


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## Nir1213 (Dec 2, 2020)

Kaneki Uchiha said:


> at your level timing and improving certain areas of your solve is quite useless. The best way to improve at 30s ish is just to do solves


but j perm said to have 4 second cross, 16 second f2l, which in total is 20 seconds. My f2l is a few seconds slower than that.


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## Kaneki Uchiha (Dec 2, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> but j perm said to have 4 second cross, 16 second f2l, which in total is 20 seconds. My f2l is a few seconds slower than that.


doing solves will improve your f2l times


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## Nir1213 (Dec 2, 2020)

Kaneki Uchiha said:


> doing solves will improve your f2l times


i have done that and no improvement whatsoever. Im just going to fix my bad habits and then grind solves. But not before full PLL.


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## Kaneki Uchiha (Dec 2, 2020)

you do you ig


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## Nir1213 (Dec 2, 2020)

Kaneki Uchiha said:


> you do you ig


yup I do I


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## ProStar (Dec 2, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> but j perm said to have 4 second cross, 16 second f2l, which in total is 20 seconds. My f2l is a few seconds slower than that.



That's an *average*, not a requirement. If you're fast at LL, then you can have a slower F2L. If perhaps you can get a really fast Cross, then it's ok if you're slow at OLL. You don't need to have exactly those times, but you should aim for around there.


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## Nir1213 (Dec 2, 2020)

ProStar said:


> That's an *average*, not a requirement. If you're fast at LL, then you can have a slower F2L. If perhaps you can get a really fast Cross, then it's ok if you're slow at OLL. You don't need to have exactly those times, but you should aim for around there.


ok i guess, but i still will try to remove my bad habits in f2l. Thanks for the response.


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## Seth1448 (Dec 3, 2020)

For sub 30 its absolutely Crucial to have really efficient f2l cases for almost any case so learn more efficient f2l before full pll or anything like that. F2l is more important than ll when your not sub-30 yet.


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## Deleted member 55877 (Dec 3, 2020)

Seth1448 said:


> For sub 30 its absolutely Crucial to have really efficient f2l cases for almost any case so learn more efficient f2l before full pll or anything like that. F2l is more important than ll when your not sub-30 yet.


PLL is good to learn early on, though, because then by the time you are sub-20 you will have good familiarity with PLL and thus will have time for full OLL. I think full PLL and good basic F2L are equally important for people approaching sub 30


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## Nir1213 (Dec 9, 2020)

ok guys.. Im learning some advanced f2l cases that i need, and after that it might get my f2l down a bit.. Then full PLL will be on!


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## Nir1213 (Dec 16, 2020)

bit of a bump... I havent improved at all because of school. I learned some advanced f2l cases tho, im waiting for the christmas break so i can practice all day.


On my f2l i think i improved a bit from the advanced f2l cases, but i need to learn more. My recog is slow.


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## SH03L4C3 (Dec 16, 2020)

Practice spamming tps on LL and reduce moves and rotations in f2l


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## Nir1213 (Dec 16, 2020)

SH03L4C3 said:


> Practice spamming tps on LL and reduce moves and rotations in f2l


im working on my f2l, ll is for later. I just need to shave off a couple of seconds on f2l, but its hard for me because school....


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## DiamondGolem12 (Dec 16, 2020)

Nir1213 needs help!! said:


> its hard for me because school....


I feel your pain, especially at the moment


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## Filipe Teixeira (Dec 16, 2020)

I see that you don't want people saying you to just practice f2l because it's not helping,

but I want to say to you to do a specific f2l drill. it helped me diminish my f2l times drastically.

watch the video





this drill will make you find flaws in your f2l solving because you'll see how you need to learn new angles and solutions to cases you solve inneficiently right now.

then try to think of better solutions or search for cases solution, maybe post here so we can help.

good luck!


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## Nir1213 (Dec 16, 2020)

Filipe Teixeira said:


> I see that you don't want people saying you to just practice f2l because it's not helping,
> 
> but I want to say to you to do a specific f2l drill. it helped me diminish my f2l times drastically.
> 
> ...


i watched the video, and im trying to do less rotations, and i think i reduced my rotations a bit, and sometimes i use F moves to insert


----------



## Deleted member 54663 (Dec 16, 2020)

Try sledging f2l pairs instead of inserting to decrease bad ll cases. I made a video on this, hope it will help:


----------



## Nir1213 (Dec 17, 2020)

JP cubing said:


> Try sledging f2l pairs instead of inserting to decrease bad ll cases. I made a video on this, hope it will help:


i do that when i get 2 edges on the top left.

anyway, i only use 2 vhls cases, not the rest cause its not worth it.


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## the dnf master (Dec 17, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i do that when i get 2 edges on the top left.
> 
> anyway, i only use 2 vhls cases, not the rest cause its not worth it.


the only vhls i know is sledge


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## Nir1213 (Dec 17, 2020)

the dnf master said:


> the only vhls i know is sledge


i use sledge and sexy (though sledge appears most often)


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## the dnf master (Dec 17, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> i use sledge and sexy (though sledge appears most often)


sexy only works if all of your edges are oriented


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## Nir1213 (Dec 17, 2020)

the dnf master said:


> sexy only works if all of your edges are oriented


3 edges, not all.


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## DNF_Cuber (Dec 17, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> 3 edges, not all.


no, all edges need to be oriented for sexy to work


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## Nir1213 (Dec 17, 2020)

DNF_Cuber said:


> no, all edges need to be oriented for sexy to work


oh ok you're right, i mixed orienting with permuting...


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## Nir1213 (Dec 21, 2020)

ok i actually made some progress, learned some advanced f2l and implemented them in solves...


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## Filipe Teixeira (Dec 21, 2020)

Nir1213 said:


> ok i actually made some progress, learned some advanced f2l and implemented them in solves...


that's great. What are your splits now?

- Cross + f2l
- oll
- pll


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## Nir1213 (Jan 5, 2021)

bump: I have been practicing a little and learned some f2l cases i needed, and im already seeing some improvement. I averaged around 35, and now i did an ao12 where i got 31.90. My f2l has been a bit faster i saw, and now to break the sub 30 barrier I just have to practice a bit more on f2l and then learn full PLL, and then practice some more..


@Filipe Teixeira (sorry for the mention) my splits are cross + f2l around 20 seconds, have to get a bit faster though and more consistent. OLL is around 5 seconds (2 look) and pll is maybe 6 or 7 (2 look)


EDIT: First sub 30 ao5 AND ao12! Noice


----------



## Filipe Teixeira (Jan 5, 2021)

> (sorry for the mention)


no problem!



Nir1213 said:


> my splits are cross + f2l around 20 seconds, have to get a bit faster though and more consistent. OLL is around 5 seconds (2 look) and pll is maybe 6 or 7 (2 look)


I think it's a good idea to focus learling/drilling the rest of PLL and practice F2L alone


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## Nir1213 (Jan 5, 2021)

Filipe Teixeira said:


> no problem!
> 
> 
> I think it's a good idea to focus learling/drilling the rest of PLL and practice F2L alone


thanks for the tips. Also I edited my post


----------



## Filipe Teixeira (Jan 5, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> EDIT: First sub 30 ao5 AND ao12! Noice


WOOW congrats!
yay


----------



## Nir1213 (Jan 5, 2021)

Filipe Teixeira said:


> WOOOW congrats!
> yay


im still not sub 30 yet, i need to get an ao100


----------



## Filipe Teixeira (Jan 5, 2021)

Filipe Teixeira said:


> WOOW congrats!
> yay


I know but its a good milestone.


----------



## jdh3000 (Jan 5, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> *This is a thread where i practice and learn cases and algs to get to sub 40.*
> Right now i learned intuitive f2l but i also need help and tips with it.
> 
> so now i have this problem where i see that before i learned intuitive f2l i had a 40 second average on f2l, so i went to learn intuitve f2l to get a lower f2l average, but now that i use intuitvte f2l my solve time is 1 minute and 30 seconds on average??
> does this need more practice or i am doing it wrong?



Learn algs for some difficult f2l cases. That really pushed me ahead. 

Most intuitive cases are fine as such, but cases that where pieces are stuck together takes some unnecessary moves to fix and insert without algs.

Second, work on better fingertricks. I didn't really how much I was missing by not utilizing left finger pushes. 

Look at better recognition of cases, f2l /oll/pll.

You need to be able to see a case, recognize and insert it without thinking.

Make sure you can solve your cross blindfolded. Transitioning from cross to f2l also shaves off time. I'm currently working on predicting first pair better, where I'll be able to plan cross and f2l and solve the entire thing in one blow, freeing up my mind to search for my second pair. Right now I'm watching tracking my first pair while doing the cross. It's not bad, will be much better after prediction gets better.


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## Nir1213 (Jan 9, 2021)

I'm sub 30 now! 

I didn't even learn full PLL, so I guess my next goal is sub 20!


Plans for sub 20:
Learn full PLL
Learn some OLL's
sub 3 at cross
Dual color neutral, then become full CN.


----------



## DNF_Cuber (Jan 9, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> I'm sub 30 now! View attachment 14504
> 
> I didn't even learn full PLL, so I guess my next goal is sub 20!
> 
> ...


looks more like sub 27. Also why are you doing millisecond? Don't you do keyboard?


----------



## Nir1213 (Jan 9, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> looks more like sub 27. Also why are you doing millisecond? Don't you do keyboard?


Im doing millisecond cause why not, I just like it more specific. I use stackmat, not keyboard.
well i achieved more than just sub 30 so I guess you can call me sub 27


----------



## FishyIshy (Jan 9, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> I'm sub 30 now! View attachment 14504
> 
> I didn't even learn full PLL, so I guess my next goal is sub 20!
> 
> ...


Sounds like everything I talked about in the critique


----------



## DNF_Cuber (Jan 9, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> Im doing millisecond cause why not, I just like it more specific. I use stackmat, not keyboard.
> well i achieved more than just sub 30 so I guess you can call me sub 27


Ok, I find millisecond pointless, but whatever.


----------



## FishyIshy (Jan 9, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> Ok, I find millisecond pointless, but whatever.


@Micah Morrison and @Owen Morrison both use milliseconds. I think I honestly might switch to doing that as well. Way more accurate. And imagine beating the world record at home and you do it in milliseconds as well. . .it'd be pretty POG


----------



## DNF_Cuber (Jan 9, 2021)

FishyIshy said:


> @Micah Morrison and @Owen Morrison both use milliseconds. I think I honestly might switch to doing that as well. Way more accurate. And imagine beating the world record at home and you do it in milliseconds as well. . .it'd be pretty POG


The WCA doesn't even record milliseconds and it isn't really much more accurate. It doesn't bother me that you do it, I just find it pointless.


----------



## Owen Morrison (Jan 9, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> I'm sub 30 now! View attachment 14504
> 
> I didn't even learn full PLL, so I guess my next goal is sub 20!
> 
> ...


Best time: 0.880. Seems legit.

anyway, congrats!


----------



## Nir1213 (Jan 9, 2021)

Owen Morrison said:


> Best time: 0.880. Seems legit.
> 
> anyway, congrats!


sorry it was a glitch, i didnt even start the timer and it went and stopped. I deleted it but its still there


----------



## EngiNerdBrian (Jan 9, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> I deleted it but its still there


That’s not how cstimer works but ok. Regardless it seems like you’ve made some good progress lately so congrats.


----------



## Nir1213 (Jan 10, 2021)

EngiNerdBrian said:


> That’s not how cstimer works but ok. Regardless it seems like you’ve made some good progress lately so congrats.


oh wait i just realized i had it, im going to delete it now and do another solve to make it ao100

EDIT:

Real average:


----------



## FishyIshy (Jan 10, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> oh wait i just realized i had it, im going to delete it now and do another solve to make it ao100
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


Don't expect to only improve by doing timed solves though. It really doesn't help to do as many timed solves until you get to like Sub 10 I think. I just started getting serious about competition simulation that way I will be prepared for my first comp. I average 9 now, so by the time comps start, I would be used to the pressure. Think about it like that. Do you use timed inspection?


----------



## Nir1213 (Jan 10, 2021)

FishyIshy said:


> Don't expect to only improve by doing timed solves though. It really doesn't help to do as many timed solves until you get to like Sub 10 I think. I just started getting serious about competition simulation that way I will be prepared for my first comp. I average 9 now, so by the time comps start, I would be used to the pressure. Think about it like that. Do you use timed inspection?


i dont use timed inspection, and I did the ao100 because I wasn't sure what i really averaged, and it turns out I was sub 27.


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## FishyIshy (Jan 10, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> i dont use timed inspection, and I did the ao100 because I wasn't sure what i really averaged, and it turns out I was sub 27.


Do you plan what position your first pair is going to be in/ That could help. And once you get good at that, you could plan the orientation as well


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## Nir1213 (Jan 10, 2021)

FishyIshy said:


> Do you plan what position your first pair is going to be in/ That could help. And once you get good at that, you could plan the orientation as well


no, i just do the cross in around 3/4 seconds and then find the pair, but for sub 20 im planning to do cross + 1 and lookahead, which i havent learned yet


----------



## FishyIshy (Jan 10, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> no, i just do the cross in around 3/4 seconds and then find the pair, but for sub 20 im planning to do cross + 1 and lookahead, which i havent learned yet


Planning first pair helped me drop about 3 seconds when I averaged 17 seconds. I was also learning to look ahead around that time


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## DNF_Cuber (Jan 10, 2021)

FishyIshy said:


> Planning first pair helped me drop about 3 seconds when I averaged 17 seconds. I was also learning to look ahead around that time


he averages 26, not 17. Lookahead will help more than first pair planning.


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## FishyIshy (Jan 10, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> he averages 26, not 17. Lookahead will help more than first pair planning.


True


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## Nir1213 (Jan 10, 2021)

So what should I start with? Full PLL or learning lookahead.


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## DNF_Cuber (Jan 10, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> So what should I start with? Full PLL or learning lookahead.


lookahead is something that once you know the concept you will just be getting better and better at. I recommend watching a lookahead vid, then learning PLL.


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## Milominx (Jan 10, 2021)

i only inspect cross dont lookahead and know full pll and i am sub-20 you dont need lookahead i would say i recommend learning full pll


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## Nir1213 (Jan 10, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> lookahead is something that once you know the concept you will just be getting better and better at. I recommend watching a lookahead vid, then learning PLL.


Im not 100% sure I can solve a pair without looking, and I feel like I should learn more advanced f2l cases, so im not sure I can lookahead, but I'll keep in mind when I do F2L.


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## DNF_Cuber (Jan 10, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> Im not 100% sure I can solve a pair without looking, and I feel like I should learn more advanced f2l cases, so im not sure I can lookahead, but I'll keep in mind when I do F2L.


If you can't do a pair without looking, work on that.


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## Nir1213 (Jan 10, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> If you can't do a pair without looking, work on that.


i can do a pair without looking, but im not 100% confident and I think that its more important for me to practice my f2l cases and algs, and learn more advanced f2l before moving on to lookahead.


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## BenChristman1 (Jan 10, 2021)

I’m just going to say that you don’t “learn” lookahead, it just comes with practice.


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## Nir1213 (Jan 11, 2021)

BenChristman1 said:


> I’m just going to say that you don’t “learn” lookahead, it just comes with practice.


Yeah i guess. But first I should be able to do all f2l cases blindfolded with 100% confidence, and that means learning advanced f2l. Then I should then do slow solves with lookahead so I could see how the pieces move, and practice till I can go almost my normal speed with lookahead.


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## DNF_Cuber (Jan 11, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> Yeah i guess. But first I should be able to do all f2l cases blindfolded with 100% confidence, and that means learning advanced f2l. Then I should then do slow solves with lookahead so I could see how the pieces move, and practice till I can go almost my normal speed with lookahead.


Advanced f2l doesn't mean algs. It is mainly inserting to all slots and taking advantage of empty slots.


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## Nir1213 (Jan 11, 2021)

DNF_Cuber said:


> Advanced f2l doesn't mean algs. It is mainly inserting to all slots and taking advantage of empty slots.


yeah, i have to learn all the cases.

I think I will try to review all of the f2l cases and change my algs if there is a better one, and then after that I will try to do slow solves and lookahead, and then learn full PLL.


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## ZB2op (Jan 12, 2021)

You don't have to start using look ahead until after you've reached sub 20 but knowing advanced f2l will help.


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## LukasCubes (Jan 13, 2021)

What do you normally average on 3x3 @Nir1213


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## Nir1213 (Jan 29, 2021)

LukasCubes said:


> What do you normally average on 3x3 @Nir1213


not sure, probably about 26 - 28


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## Nir1213 (Jan 29, 2021)

sorry for the double post, but i felt like it should be in its own post.





PB FAIL

if i hadn't messed my u perm up i could've tied or maybe even beat my pb
my current pb is still 16.339


EDIT: I just did another solve after this one and i got another sub 20 tf


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## Nir1213 (Jan 30, 2021)

OH MY GOD THIS CUBE IS AMAZING!

I broke my best ao5 (23 something) by a second with my Guhong V4 M! Its now 22. I really reccomend buying this cube, i get crazy fast times (24 and 26, sometimes 20 and 22!)


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## Nir1213 (Jan 30, 2021)

I got an 18 with the cube! Im just keep getting 24's 25's 23's all the way to 20's!

This cube is godly


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## BenChristman1 (Jan 30, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> I got an 18 with the cube! Im just keep getting 24's 25's 23's all the way to 20's!
> 
> This cube is godly


I could probably find it somewhere, but what were you using before?


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## Nir1213 (Jan 30, 2021)

BenChristman1 said:


> I could probably find it somewhere, but what were you using before?


meilong 3m


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## Nir1213 (Jan 30, 2021)

HOLY GUACAMOLE


This time I didn't really mess up anything, but this is my new PB2! only like 0.8 away from my PB, and 0.07 faster than my previous PB2


I bet the guhong v4 m is giving me magical powers, just like it gave BrodyTheCuber when he got a sub 7 ao12. Im now getting crazy times!


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## Nir1213 (Jan 31, 2021)

Can someone link me a website where I can practice bld cross? I think I need it in order to sub 3 my cross


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## Owen Morrison (Jan 31, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> Can someone link me a website where I can practice bld cross? I think I need it in order to sub 3 my cross








csTimer - Professional Rubik's Cube Speedsolving/Training Timer







cstimer.net


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## Milominx (Jan 31, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> I got an 18 with the cube! Im just keep getting 24's 25's 23's all the way to 20's!
> 
> This cube is godly


Good cus i ordered it i cant wait


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## Nir1213 (Jan 31, 2021)

Owen Morrison said:


> csTimer - Professional Rubik's Cube Speedsolving/Training Timer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nvm I already got it, not sure anyway how cstimer can work cause i dont think it has the option to choose how many moves does it take to solve a cross.

anyway I already have a website which can help me


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## Nir1213 (Jan 31, 2021)

I added Gravitas and Dignitas and it feels like HEAVEN. I didn't use DNM-37 though, probably gonna use it when my cube gets a bit slow.


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## Nir1213 (Jan 31, 2021)

I beat my ao5 and my ao12 PB's in just a few solves. This cube is legendary


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## Milominx (Jan 31, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> View attachment 14687
> I beat my ao5 and my ao12 PB's in just a few solves. This cube is legendary


Good job
Now i can wait even less for My GuHong


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## Nir1213 (Jan 31, 2021)

Milominx said:


> Good job
> Now i can wait even less for My GuHong


Has your Guhong come yet? It's really good, and better if lubed, though you don't have to cause it's already so smooth. I reccomend tightening the screws all the way, then loosen it a bit to allow some corner-cutting.


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## scrubizilla (Jan 31, 2021)

Good luck with your sub 20 stuff
the thing that helped me the most was just grinding solves- if you practice
enough lookahead kinda comes naturally i think


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## MuaazCubes (Feb 1, 2021)

I'll probably would've gotten the guhong based on how so many people like plus its price, if I didn't get the rs3m 2020 tho.


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## Nir1213 (Feb 1, 2021)

MuaazCubes said:


> I'll probably would've gotten the guhong based on how so many people like plus its price, if I didn't get the rs3m 2020 tho.


rs3m 2020 is good, I just didn't really like the gloss and that it felt a bit flimsy, but that's about all the cons really. I like the Guhong more though cause it is really good OOTB.


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## MuaazCubes (Feb 1, 2021)

Nir1213 said:


> rs3m 2020 is good, I just didn't really like the gloss and that it felt a bit flimsy, but that's about all the cons really. I like the Guhong more though cause it is really good OOTB.


If you add angstrom gravitas and Dignitas, and a few drops of compound x, it's super good, got it from cyoubx's tutorial on how he makes his rs3m good.


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## Nir1213 (Feb 2, 2021)

Lol just got sub 3 when doing a 4x4 solve.


well, barely.


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