# Pyraminx method names



## Carrot (Apr 12, 2010)

Hello Speedsolving  

I have heard people say something like "I use Oka-LBL-superIMBAstar-WO-with-wintervariation" yeah right, no one knows the names of the pyraminx methods. I know quite a lot of methods and I will list them here and give them a short description, I will post the most common names and possible variations of this method.

Any comments about my naming choice would be very appreciated, as it is all based on my opinion unless something else is mentioned.

Here is a renewed list of method names, please tell me if I missed anything or if I wrote anything wrong  

**=I am not sure, so I am just guessing a bit.

Bob Burton's method

steps:

Solve the centers of a layer
Solve 3 edges so they finish the layer
Hope for a skip, if not, repeat step 1 and 2 just with a another colour layer

Type: LBL method
Number of algs required: 0-1
Used by: Bob Burton

LBL (Layer by Layer) method
_- Also known as: Beginner's Method_

steps:

Solve the centers of a layer
Solve 3 edges so they finish the layer
Solve the rest in one alg (3 edges surrounding a top)

Type: LBL method
Number of algs required: 5-6
Used by: Piotr Kozka, Simon Westlund, Erik Akkersdijk, Yuxuan Wang

Beginner's Polish V**

steps:

Solve 3 centers and 2 edges so that they form a V shape on the bottom-back
Solve the back edge of the top
Solve the last 3 edges that appears on your front in one alg

Type: LBL method
Number of algs required: ~30

Polish V
_- Also known as: L4E_

steps:

Solve 3 centers and 2 edges so that they form a V shape on the bottom-back
Solve the last 4 edges in one alg

Type: LBL method
Number of algs required: ~30
Used by: Tomasz Kiedrowicz

FP method**

steps:

Solve a face (permutation of the face is not taken into account)
Solve the last 6 edges in one alg

Type: FP method
Number of algs required: ~25

MP method**

steps:

Solve a V (permutation of the V is not taken into account). Please take a look at the 'Polish V' if you don't know what a 'V' is
Solve the last 6 edges in one alg

Type: FP method
Number of algs required: Major amount  (around 1337 algs according to Chip Munkjor, but I think ~100 is more realistic)

Petrus

steps:

Solve 2 centers and an edge so the form a 1x1x3-like block
Flip the edges so they are all oriented correct
Solve the rest 2-gen intuitively

Type: Blockbuilding method
Number of algs required: 0-3

Backbone

steps:

This is step 1 and 2 from "Petrus" merged together
Solve the rest 2-gen intuitively

Type: Blockbuilding method
Number of algs required: 0
Used by: Stefan Pochmann**

HB (Half-Backbone)


Solve two centers next to an edge, while also orienting the other two edges which will be next to one of those corners (so those edges can be solved 2-gen) - there are two possibilities for any given initial edge
Solve those two edges while also orienting the two centers they are connected to
Solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Blockbuilding method
Number of algs required: ~3

Keyhole Method

steps:

Solve 2 of the top edges
Solve the centers with help of 'missing edge'-spot (also known as keyhole)
solve the last edge of the top
solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 5-10
Used by: Bruno Bereczki

Oka method
_- Also known as: Oka (expert) ... People saying they are using Oka method and in fact are using Keyhole, GTFO xD_

steps:

"solve" two edges surrounding the top center (1 should be in it right spot, the other should be in a top spot where it can be fixed with 3 moves, R U R' for example)
Solve the centers using keyhole
Solve the last 2 top edges (3 moves)
solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 5
Used by: Yohei Oka, Bruno Bereczki

WO method(beginner version)

steps:

Solve 3 edges surround a center so they form solved top
Solve the centers one by one
solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 5
Used by: Danish newbies

WO method(advanced version)

steps:

Solve 3 edges surround a center so they form solved top
Solve the centers in one alg
solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 10-13
Used by: Oscar Roth Andersen

Matthew Flay method

steps:

Solve 3 edges surround a center so they form solved top
Solve the rest in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: ~100

Nutella method

steps:

Just search for it on youtube please... (it's hard to describe on text)

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 10-13
Used by: Oscar Roth Andersen, Jonathan Midjord Shapira

OFF method (Owidiusz Freaking Flip)

steps:

Solve 3 centes of a face whilst permuting the 3 edges for that layer (Don't care about orientation of the edges)
Solve the rest in one alg

Type: LBL
Number of algs required: a lot I guess
Used by: Owidiusz Pryk

IWO method (Improved Wedel-Odder)

steps:

Solve 3 edges surrounding a center so that they form solved top, and make sure you also solve at minimum 2 of the bottom centers
Solve the last 3 edges + 1 center in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: I never really counted, but I have some alg sheets xD

1-flip method

steps:

Solve 3 edges of an top surrounding a top so you have 2 solved edges and 1 flipped edge
Solve the flipped edge and the centers in one alg
Solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 10-13
Used by: Oscar Roth Andersen



If you see any mistakes... please point them out =)

/Odder


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## Stefan (Apr 12, 2010)

What about Richard Patterson's method?


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## Carrot (Apr 12, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> What about Richard Patterson's method?



Sorry, but I have never heard of it, can you tell me/us about it or do you have a link with further information?


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## Neo63 (Apr 12, 2010)

Luck should be called Bob Burton's method lol


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## Stefan (Apr 12, 2010)

Richard was the first (I know of) who published it, back when he was the first to unofficially average sub-10 or sub-9, and it's what you call "Oka (youtube style)". Used to be here: http://www.geocities.com/rubiks_galaxia/


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## Stefan (Apr 12, 2010)

And interesting... does nobody use what I call backbone (what you call Petrus, but the first two steps combined)? Is it too bad or too hard?


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## Carrot (Apr 12, 2010)

Neo63 said:


> Luck should be called Bob Burton's method lol



Good idea, I had no idea what this should be called, that's why I added the question mark.



StefanPochmann said:


> Richard was the first (I know of) who published it, back when he was the first to unofficially average sub-10 or sub-9, and it's what you call "Oka (youtube style)". Used to be here: http://www.geocities.com/rubiks_galaxia/



I added it as "other names" under "Oka (youtube style)" as Oka is the most widely known name for this method...


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## Carrot (Apr 12, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> And interesting... does nobody use what I call backbone (what you call Petrus, but the first two steps combined)? Is it too bad or too hard?



It is definitely a hard method, but fast pyraminxers say petrus style methods for pyraminx is impossible to lookahead in.. I will add your method to the list and another one I forgot

Note: Stefan double posted, I double post


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## Stefan (Apr 12, 2010)

I agree with Bob Burton method, that's the name I know for it 



Odder said:


> StefanPochmann said:
> 
> 
> > And interesting... does nobody use what I call backbone (what you call Petrus, but the first two steps combined)? Is it too bad or too hard?
> ...



I never studied it much, but I think EOLine for 3x3x3 should be harder and people are doing that, no?


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## Carrot (Apr 12, 2010)

StefanPochmann said:


> I agree with Bob Burton method, that's the name I know for it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think we are misunderstanding eachother, I think I should have said reckognition instead, but my theory about this statement is that EOLine for 3x3x3 is easier to plan because tracking the orientation on a 3x3x3 doesn't take that much effort and only about a third of the puzzles functional pieces is affected, on the pyraminx I haven't found any way to easily track the orientation, plus 50% of the edges is affected on a single turn, which might make it harder to imagine in the head.

but then again, who cares so much about pyraminx that they would begin learning a method as backbone, and really stretch it to the limit, (which I would guess is about 1-2 second for EO+block and 1-2 for the rest plus tips which is 2-4 average if you don't have to reckognize.. ;-) ) and then back to where I think we misunderstood eachother, I was thinking about reckognition of the last 5 edges, I find it hard to look at them and within a second perform an alg-like solution.


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## qqwref (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks a lot for this, it's very useful.

Is there anywhere where all of the algs for IWO? (And what does it stand for? :confused


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## Carrot (Apr 13, 2010)

qqwref said:


> Thanks a lot for this, it's very useful.
> 
> Is there anywhere where all of the algs for IWO? (And what does it stand for? :confused



No algs online =) but it stands for Improved WO (yeah, I'm not that creative xD)

EDIT: it's really not a hard work to write down the cases as they all are very intuitive and straight away, the first group of 12 cases is already known if you know how the solve the 3 bottom edges... so only 24 new cases... and I don't think there are any cases that are more than 9 moves incl. AUF that's why I would prefer this over Polish V, even though first step is a bit harder...

EDIT2: If someone draw the images I will find the algs


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## Tim Major (Apr 13, 2010)

Odder said:


> IWO (Improved Wedel Odder)
> other names: ...
> steps:
> 
> ...


A few of these seem identical. But isn't this just Polish V? Like, purely Polish V? 

Edit: Great list btw. I want to point out more things, but this list looks so good. I would have called Bob Burton's method, LBL luck.


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## Carrot (Apr 13, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Odder said:
> 
> 
> > IWO (Improved Wedel Odder)
> ...



no, as I wrote to you on MSN: 
Tim Major say:
this is identical to polish V
Odder says:
that's like saying petrus and backbone is the same because they both start with a block...
the only difference in petrus and backbone is that in petrus you do EO after block, and backbone you it meanwhile...
but they are not the same...

(thanks Stefan for applying backbone to the list  )

I agree with you that you can use the Polish V algs on it. But that's just like saying, Oka methods, WO, Johan Holmedahl's method are all identical because the last step is the same.

sorry, but I disagree with you in this.

ohh, if you have something to point out please do it ;-) and thanks for liking the list. 

ehhm.. Bob Burton's Method sounds definitely better than LBL luck  but I'll add that as a "other names"


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## Tim Major (Apr 13, 2010)

Odder said:


> no, as I wrote to you on MSN:
> Tim Major say:
> this is identical to polish V
> Odder says:
> ...


Then I must have used IWO ever since I started using "Polish V", so you can't really call it your new method, when it isn't new. Sorry, In my eyes this is like, making a cross differently on 3x3, making it on top rather than on bottom. No, that's a too big difference. I really don't see the difference from this to Polish V.


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## Carrot (Apr 13, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Odder said:
> 
> 
> > no, as I wrote to you on MSN:
> ...



The idea behind Polish V: solve the last step as L4E
The idea behind IWO: solve the last as last 3 edges and one center...

some theory:
Polish V got 57 4edge cycle cases
IWO with the center adjusted got 20 4 edge cycle cases

Polish V's worst case is a 10 move case... 4flip for example
IWO's worst case is a 9 move case.. 

Polish V got in total 96 cases
IWO got in total 36 cases

Polish V can have a maximum of all four edges misoriented
IWO has a maximum of 2

Polish V L4E has an average move count of: 6.71 
IWO has an average move cont of: 6.72 (I haven't searched for optimal solutions, only what pops into my head when I saw the cases... but it's close to optimal xD)

still same method? xD



ZB_FTW!!! said:


> Odder said:
> 
> 
> > no, as I wrote to you on MSN:
> ...


well I came up with this method about exactly 1 year ago... and I didn't claim to call it new?


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## Daniel Wu (Jul 8, 2010)

Bump.
I was looking at this list by Otter and noticed that I used youtube style OKA. So I looked into Oka style where you use R U R' to solve the top edges and keep the bottom centers oriented. I just want to say that it's very easy to learn and implement into solves. I learned it just today and I'm already using it with a degree of fluency in my regular solves. So, if you know OKA youtube style, learn the other style. It's worth it. Solves become more consistent and lower. It allows you to take advantage of starting positions better because you have more flexibility while solving.


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## Carrot (Jul 9, 2010)

rickcube said:


> Bump.
> I was looking at this list by *Odder* and noticed that I used youtube style OKA. So I looked into Oka style where you use R U R' to solve the top edges and keep the bottom centers oriented. I just want to say that it's very easy to learn and implement into solves. I learned it just today and I'm already using it with a degree of fluency in my regular solves. So, if you know OKA youtube style, learn the other style. It's worth it. Solves become more consistent and lower. It allows you to take advantage of starting positions better because you have more flexibility while solving.



fixed, and true! =D


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## hic0057 (Sep 23, 2010)

Which method do you reccomend to use and do you know of any video tutorials.


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## Alcuber (Oct 1, 2010)

hic0057 said:


> Which method do you reccomend to use and do you know of any video tutorials.


oka


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## RCTACameron (Oct 1, 2010)

Alcuber said:


> oka



Oka is good for a method if you want to get faster, without having to learn too many algs. :tu Tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU9iSdVKHwI

If you want an easier method, use LBL, or if you want _really_ easy, use Bob Burton's. If you want more advanced, you could learn L4E, but there are 70 algs or something.


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## Tim Major (Oct 1, 2010)

RCTACameron said:


> Oka is good for a method if you want to get faster, without having to learn too many algs. :tu Tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU9iSdVKHwI
> 
> If you want an easier method, use LBL, or if you want _really_ easy, use Bob Burton's. If you want more advanced, you could learn L4E, but there are 70 algs or something.


I'd say max 30 algs you didn't already know, and there's a few movers, and a lot of intuitive cases. This is why I'm posting them in groups on my site, so people realize how few there are, that are more than 5 or 6 moves.


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## RCTACameron (Oct 1, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> I'd say max 30 algs you didn't already know, and there's a few movers, and a lot of intuitive cases. This is why I'm posting them in groups on my site, so people realize how few there are, that are more than 5 or 6 moves.



Cool. :tu I might try learning them between MCD and MSO. Also, for future reference (eg learning L4E), can I have a link to your site?


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## cubefan4848 (Oct 1, 2010)

I use a method called FM or Flay Method there is a video tutorial at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tugvraaCeys
I am now working on a new method called IFM or Improved Flay Method (yeah i suck at names) It is the same start as FM and then you finish with L4E. I think it will be really good for my style of solving. But I haven't quite learnt all the L4E algorithms yet.

Please people don't post saying that L4E and IFM are exactly the same because they have a different starting


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## Tim Major (Oct 1, 2010)

RCTACameron said:


> Cool. :tu I might try learning them between MCD and MSO. Also, for future reference (eg learning L4E), can I have a link to your site?


I've had some trouble making images for my cases, and first I'm posting a new method (newly published I mean) called Face Permute.
http://mzrg.com/rubik/solving/pyraminx/index.html
Is qqwref's site. Set one you know, then a few in set 2 and 3 you'll know as well.
You only need those sets. Work the rest out yourself, it's not hard


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## deadalnix (Oct 6, 2010)

Maybe you should add some link describing method in the first post ?


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## Vishal (Nov 10, 2010)

Where can I find polish v method algorithms


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## RyanO (Nov 10, 2010)

cubefan4848 said:


> Please people don't post saying that L4E and IFM are exactly the same because they have a different starting


 
I won't say that, but I will say this: "FM" is the same as LBL.


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## HavoCentral (Nov 23, 2010)

im new to pyraminx but quite a few of the methods sound the same to me

basicall solve the centers on one side ex. yellow
solve the edges on that side, completing a face
then solve remaining edges

i believe that is these methods are all the same

Bob Burton's method
LBL (Layer by Layer)
Johan Holmedahl's method
WO (Wedel-Odder) does steps in reverse


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## Tim Major (Nov 23, 2010)

cubefan4848 said:


> don't post saying that L4E and IFM are exactly the same because they have a different starting


L4E and IFM are exactly the same because they have the same starting


Spoiler



Seriously, every post you make, makes you look worse. They are exactly the same. The first step of Polish V, is to get 3 corners (the pieces under the tips with 3 stickers) and 2 edges solved on the same face. Then you solve the L4E.
"IFM" does *exactly* the same :fp


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## Carrot (Nov 23, 2010)

ZB_FTW!!! said:


> L4E and IFM are exactly the same because they have the same starting
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



PWNED!!! =D

btw. I need to add OFF, the ortega like method and some other random methods xD


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## Julian (Dec 5, 2010)

bumpish...
I always called Bob Burton's luck method "FP", for "face progression".
I use a mix of FP and LBL.


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## Zarxrax (Dec 5, 2010)

Odder said:


> PWNED!!! =D
> 
> btw. I need to add OFF, the ortega like method and some other random methods xD


 
Is there any info on that method anywhere?
It sounds like a really interesting and fun method, but I have never found a list of algs for it.


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## HavoCentral (Dec 6, 2010)

I just started learning oka youtube, and will switch to pure oka eventually.
My question is, at what point during the solve should you fix the tips.
Currently I fix the tip that is attached to the two edges in the beginning. And then when I am "key-holing" the other centers I rotate the tip then the center.
This adds a few seconds to my time though.


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## Tim Major (Dec 6, 2010)

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...ing-Discussion&p=472869&viewfull=1#post472869
Add plox


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## riffz (Dec 6, 2010)

HavoCentral said:


> I just started learning oka youtube, and will switch to pure oka eventually.
> My question is, at what point during the solve should you fix the tips.
> Currently I fix the tip that is attached to the two edges in the beginning. And then when I am "key-holing" the other centers I rotate the tip then the center.
> This adds a few seconds to my time though.


 
That's what I do, unless I see a nice solution and then I'll leave the final 3 tips to the end so that I don't forget what I saw in inspection. Tips really slow me down :\

Odder does them at the end, it seems. (Possibly first one at beginning?)


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## Carrot (Dec 6, 2010)

riffz said:


> That's what I do, unless I see a nice solution and then I'll leave the final 3 tips to the end so that I don't forget what I saw in inspection. Tips really slow me down :\
> 
> Odder does them at the end, it seems. (Possibly first one at beginning?)


 
I do 0-1 while recognising the LL case and 0-3 after LL alg


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## That70sShowDude (Dec 6, 2010)

Good list of Polish V algs?


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## HavoCentral (Dec 6, 2010)

is polish v, pretty much oka, but instead of putting in the third edge around the first tip, then the bottom layer, you do it all at once.


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## That70sShowDude (Dec 8, 2010)

HavoCentral said:


> is polish v, pretty much oka, but instead of putting in the third edge around the first tip, then the bottom layer, you do it all at once.



You could do that. Also, you could just use LBL for the first layer, but only solve 2/3 edges


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## Kenneth (Dec 8, 2010)

Odder, Johan learned pyra from a method description I made at SveKub long ago 

But I'm fine with the name, he made a video tutorial and also improved some parts and I'm using Polish V but 2-look L4E, that is my improvment of the original = orient two centres while solving first two edges (I don't know if V existed then).

Another name for Burton is TAP = twist and pray

There is a Meffert's original too, = CF, bottom edges, tip edges (I think it was).

Edit: http://www.mefferts.com/puzzles/pyramsol.html


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## ganninu93 (Dec 27, 2010)

hey guys, which uk site do you suggest for me to buy a pyraminx from. btw i live in malta thats why i need it from uk to get it quicker


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## hic0057 (Feb 22, 2011)

Great list 

Could you add Nuttela and any others new methods. 
Also could you make a list of the method in weather they are Corner first method or Layer first method.


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## y235 (Mar 2, 2011)

You need to add Nuttela and FP.


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## ooveehoo (Mar 2, 2011)

I used to consistently do sub-8 with a method of mine. I made a post about it a couple of years back (http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...-a-Pyraminx-Method-Worth-it&p=81227#post81227). It was just three edges and corners, then last three edges in one alg. Pyraminx-Heise maybe?


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## Carrot (Mar 3, 2011)

Awesome, I just edited the OP 



Spoiler



Here is a renewed list of method names, please tell me if I missed anything or if I wrote anything wrong  

**=I am not sure, so I just placed a bet on this one.

Bob Burton's method

steps:

Solve the centers of a layer
Solve 3 edges so they finish the layer
Hope for a skip, if not, repeat step 1 and 2 just with a another colour layer

Type: LBL method
Number of algs required: 0-1
Used by: Bob Burton

LBL (Layer by Layer) method
_- Also known as: Beginner's Method_

steps:

Solve the centers of a layer
Solve 3 edges so they finish the layer
Solve the rest in one alg (3 edges surrounding a top)

Type: LBL method
Number of algs required: 5-6
Used by: Piotr Kozka, Simon Westlund, Erik Akkersdijk, Yuxuan Wang

Beginner's Polish V**

steps:

Solve 3 centers and 2 edges so that they form a V shape on the bottom-back
Solve the back edge of the top
Solve the last 3 edges that appears on your front in one alg

Type: LBL method
Number of algs required: ~30

Polish V
_- Also known as: L4E_

steps:

Solve 3 centers and 2 edges so that they form a V shape on the bottom-back
Solve the last 4 edges in one alg

Type: LBL method
Number of algs required: ~30
Used by: Tomasz Kiedrowicz

FP method**

steps:

solve a face (permutation of the face is not taken into account)
Solve the last 6 edges in one alg

Type: FP method
Number of algs required: ~30

MP method**

steps:

solve a V (permutation of the V is not taken into account). Please take a look at the 

'Polish V' if you don't know what a 'V' is
Solve the last 6 edges in one alg

Type: FP method
Number of algs required: Major amount 

Petrus

steps:

Solve 2 centers and an edge so the form a 1x1x3-like block
Flip the edges so they are all oriented correct
Solve the rest 2-gen intuitively

Type: Blockbuilding method
Number of algs required: 0-3

Backbone

steps:

This is step 1 and 2 from "Petrus" merged together
Solve the rest 2-gen intuitively

Type: Blockbuilding method
Number of algs required: 0
Used by: Stefan Pochmann**

Oka method (youtube style)
_- Also known as: Keyhole Method (by Erik Akkersdijk) and a lot other names_

steps:

Solve 2 of the top edges
Solve the centers with help of 'missing edge'-spot (also known as keyhole)
solve the last edge of the top
solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 5-10
Used by: Bruno Bereczki

Oka method (Oka style)
_- Also known as: Oka (expert)_

steps:

"solve" two edges surrounding the top center (1 should be in it right spot, the other 

should be in a top spot where it can be fixed with 3 moves, R U R' for example)
Solve the centers using keyhole
Solve the last 2 top edges (3 moves)
solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 5
Used by: Yohei Oka

WO method(beginner version)

steps:

Solve 3 edges surround a center so they form solved top
Solve the centers one by one
solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 5
Used by: Danish newbies

WO method(advanced version)

steps:

Solve 3 edges surround a center so they form solved top
Solve the centers in one alg
solve the last 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 10-13
Used by: Oscar Roth Andersen

Nutella method

steps:

Just search for it on youtube please...

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 10-13
Used by: Oscar Roth Andersen, Jonathan Midjord Shapira

OFF method (Owidiusz Freaking Flip)

steps:

Solve 3 centes of a face whilst permuting the 3 edges for that layer (Don't care about 

orientation of the edges)
Solve the rest in one alg

Type: LBL
Number of algs required: a lot I guess
Used by: Owidiusz Pryk

IWO method (Improved Wedel-Odder)

steps:

Solve 3 edges surrounding a center so that they form solved top, and make sure you also solve at 

minimum 2 of the bottom centers
Solve the last 3 edges + 1 center in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: I never really counted, but I have some alg sheets xD

1-flip method

steps:

Solve 3 edges of an top surrounding a top so you have 2 solved edges and 1 flipped edge

minimum 2 of the bottom centers
Solve the flipped edge and the centers in one alg
Solve the laste 3 edges in one alg

Type: Top first method
Number of algs required: 10-13
Used by: Oscar Roth Andersen



If anyone has a method that is left out, please try write it in this format, then it will be easier for me to edit it in  thanks in advance


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## Tim Major (Mar 3, 2011)

Odder said:


> **=I am not sure, so I just placed a bet on this one.
> FP method**
> 
> steps:
> ...


FP has 4 sets. 1 set has 4 algs, other sets have 5 algs. So 24 algs, 19 not counting the normal LBL set.

MP has 208 algs, or 130~ with mirrors. MP is a build on from FP and Polish V.
To make this number more realistic, you can remove about 5o that are complete intuition, and some more that I don't yet know about.

Matthew Flay is working on a method, where you build 3 edges around a centre, then solve the rest in 1 alg. I worked out case number, but I've lost the document. iirc it was 100~.


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## oranjules (Mar 3, 2011)

i use 1-flip method, but combined with Wedel-Odder, it is very efficient (i do sub-7 and almost sub-6 avgs with this)

HS : i sent you a PM, do you have a good alg for "sune" orientation for Wedel-Odder ? (and antisune btw)

EDIT : Tim, I did also work on this method (but never search the algs), and I think it was 110 or 120 algs (including the PLL set)


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## y235 (Mar 3, 2011)

The FP method has 21 algs, or 12 without mirrors.
The OFF method has 5+7+5+7=24 algs. (5 for bottom solved or bottom has 2-flip, 7 for bottom has 1 0r 3 edges flipped).


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## Carrot (Mar 3, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> FP has 4 sets. 1 set has 4 algs, other sets have 5 algs. So 24 algs, 19 not counting the normal LBL set.
> 
> MP has 208 algs, or 130~ with mirrors. MP is a build on from FP and Polish V.
> To make this number more realistic, you can remove about 5o that are complete intuition, and some more that I don't yet know about.



... look mom! The chipmunk can talk! =D



Tim Major said:


> Matthew Flay is working on a method, where you build 3 edges around a centre, then solve the rest in 1 alg. I worked out case number, but I've lost the document. iirc it was 100~.


 
Oh yeah, that is true, I totally forgot about this one  I will add that now.


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## y235 (Mar 3, 2011)

I said that FP had 21 algs.
And Matthew Flay's Method has (3^3)*5=135


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## Carrot (Mar 4, 2011)

y235 said:


> I said that FP had 21 algs.
> And Matthew Flay's Method has (3^3)*5=135


 
Do we really need to be THAT exactly? I just made the alg count thingy to give people an idea of what the method requires.


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## hic0057 (Mar 4, 2011)

Hopefully Matthew didn't get too effect by the floods in QLD. I think he lived in areas close to major flood area. 

Not much people are talking about _backbone_ which I believe have great potential. I would only use it when there a corner-edge pair which is 62.7% of times.

When there is a corner edge pair there is either a 0, 1, 2 or 3 move solution to get a corner edge corner block.

0 move solutions comes aprox 5%

1 move solution comes 18.66%

2 move solution comes 44.77% (Not always starting with a corner edge pair)

3 move solution comes ?

Learning 0, 1 and 3 move solutions are possible without too much effort. I currently practicing 1 move solutions which I can do without restricting me to 15 second inspection. 3 moves shouldn't be too hard

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?20384-Probability-Thread/page22


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## Carrot (Mar 4, 2011)

hic0057 said:


> Hopefully Matthew didn't get too effect by the floods in QLD. I think he lived in areas close to major flood area.
> 
> Not much people are talking about _backbone_ which I believe have great potential. I would only use it when there a corner-edge pair which is 62.7% of times.
> 
> ...


 
One thing is to solve the block, another thing is to solve the orientation of the rest of the edges at the same time  (that is the difference between petrus and backbone), So I your statistics are for Petrus solves, and not Backbone solves.


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## y235 (Mar 4, 2011)

Odder said:


> Do we really need to be THAT exactly? I just made the alg count thingy to give people an idea of what the method requires.


You had need to write ~20 in FP.


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## qqwref (Mar 5, 2011)

Is this a new method? I'm not sure what to call it.


Solve two corners next to an edge, while also orienting the other two edges which will be next to one of those corners (so those edges can be solved 2-gen) - there are two possibilities for any given initial edge
Solve those two edges while also orienting the two corners they are connected to
Solve the last 3 edges in one alg


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## Carrot (Mar 6, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Is this a new method? I'm not sure what to call it.
> 
> 
> Solve two corners next to an edge, while also orienting the other two edges which will be next to one of those corners (so those edges can be solved 2-gen) - there are two possibilities for any given initial edge
> ...


 
If I understood this correct you want to solve it like LBL but a tweak of 'petrus'/'backbone' for the FL?


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## qqwref (Mar 6, 2011)

Not really, it's more like a version of Backbone that ignores the last 3 edges (out of the 5 that aren't on that original block), so you can solve them in one step at the end.

EDIT: Unless I hear otherwise, I'll name this method "Half Backbone" (HB) and consider that I invented it 
I think this method can be pretty fast, but I'd like to see how someone with good tps can do.


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## riffz (Mar 6, 2011)

Wanna post your WO/IWO algs? 

I suppose learning algs for twisting centers can only improve your times if you're using keyhole to twist them.


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## cubefan4848 (Mar 9, 2011)

The Matthew Flay method actually has 132 algs to be exact. You can not say I am wrong because I am the creator. Also I have added on some extensions for the first step. You can solve the first step edges with any orientation and then finish the rest in one alg. This makes the method have 312 algs. I will eventually think of a better name for the method as well if anbody wants to help with the name feel free.


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## qqwref (Mar 9, 2011)

cubefan4848 said:


> The Matthew Flay method actually has 132 algs to be exact. You can not say I am wrong because I am the creator.


Is that so? Noting that there are 12 edge cases counting solved (or 6 if you're allowed to rotate), we have:
- three rotation-invariant corner cases (000, +++, ---) = 18 algs counting one for solved
- eight rotation-varying corner cases (00+, 00-, 0++, 0+-, 0-+, 0--, ++-, --+) = 96 algs
For a total of 113 non-solved algs. And about half as many if you allow mirrors.


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## cubefan4848 (Mar 9, 2011)

How come I needed 132 algs and cases to have enough to solve everything


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## qqwref (Mar 9, 2011)

Maybe you were counting 12 cases for each of the 11 possible corner setups?


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## cubefan4848 (Mar 9, 2011)

Yeah that is what I was doing how do I get less than that then


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## Tim Major (Mar 9, 2011)

cubefan4848, in your method, there was no reason you chose 3 solved edges around a corner right? Because I'm thinking it would actually be better to do 1 solved edge, and 2 swapped edges, like in the Nutella method. My reasoning is less cases, and better algs. I don't see how you could argue with that.
It has less cases due to the parity factor on the last 3 edges.
3 + 3 + 3 + 3 counting mirrors.
Currently there are 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 1. So currently there are 16 edge cases, this can be reduced to 12, and also, the algs are much better.
Thoughts? I suppose this is still basically your method, how about MF method (Major Flay )
Or FM 

Please don't shatter my brilliant idea anyone, if I don't realise I've made some big mistake, I'm learning this!


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## Carrot (Mar 9, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> cubefan4848, in your method, there was no reason you chose 3 solved edges around a corner right? Because I'm thinking it would actually be better to do 1 solved edge, and 2 swapped edges, like in the Nutella method. My reasoning is less cases, and better algs. I don't see how you could argue with that.
> It has less cases due to the parity factor on the last 3 edges.
> 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 counting mirrors.
> Currently there are 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 1. So currently there are 16 edge cases, this can be reduced to 12, and also, the algs are much better.
> ...


 
Chipmunk, I don't get how you can turn that slow =D


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## qqwref (Mar 9, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> cubefan4848, in your method, there was no reason you chose 3 solved edges around a corner right? Because I'm thinking it would actually be better to do 1 solved edge, and 2 swapped edges, like in the Nutella method. My reasoning is less cases, and better algs. I don't see how you could argue with that.


As for better algs, we'll have to see (someone wanna generate them? ). As for fewer cases, there are still 12 counting solved if you don't allow rotation, but now there are only 4 if you do. So the number of cases drops from 113 to 107.


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## Carrot (Mar 9, 2011)

qqwref said:


> As for better algs, we'll have to see (someone wanna generate them? ). As for fewer cases, there are still 12 counting solved if you don't allow rotation, but now there are only 4 if you do. So the number of cases drops from 113 to 107.



for 1 flipped center (left center needs to be turned CCW)
F-L swap+F-L flip: R' L R L
F-L swap+F-R flip: R' L R' L R' [L'] L R' L' R (I don't think this works xD)
F-L swap+L-R flip: R' L R' L' R U' R U R' L'
F-L swap: R' L' R L' R U' R' U L

I didn't bother computing them ...


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## Tim Major (Mar 9, 2011)

There are 15 cases with the solved top, whereas only 12 with the two swap idea, so multiply that by the number of centre cases, and there's a big difference.
As to algs, you can affect the centres in 4 moves with this method, and look at the Nutella method algs, they're much better than if you used a solved block in the first step. In a few weeks I'll start making algs, I'm too busy right now. I'll make a Google docs page.


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## qqwref (Mar 9, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> There are 15 cases with the solved top, whereas only 12 with the two swap idea, so multiply that by the number of centre cases, and there's a big difference.


How do you get 15? There are three ways you can have a 2-swap in the three edges, and four ways the edges can be flipped (1xsolved, 3x2flip), for 12.


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## Tim Major (Mar 9, 2011)

On phone, lefty 3cycle, righty 3cycle, lefty 3cycle flip, righty 3cycle flip, 2flip, solved.
Each have 3, then solved edges is one, 6*3+1=19 wat.
I might be messing sth up, whereas my version has 2swap, 2swap flip, lefty 2swap half flip, righty 2swap half flip, 4*3=12.
Much less with mirrors on both.

Edit: pure 3cycles don't have rotations, so -4=15


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## qqwref (Mar 9, 2011)

Non-parity cases:
Left 3-cycle = 1, right 3-cycle = 1, left 3-cycle flip = 3, right 3-cycle flip = 3, 2flip = 3, solved = 1.
1+1+3+3+3+1 = 12 (or 6 if you can AUF, or 7 if you can mirror, or 4 if you can AUF and mirror)

Parity cases:
2-swap = 3, 2-swap and other flipped = 3, left 2-swap flip = 3, right 2-swap flip = 3.
3+3+3+3 = 12 (or 4 if you can AUF, or 7 if you can mirror, or 3 if you can AUF and mirror).


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## Tim Major (Mar 9, 2011)

I counted solved as 3 :fp
How can you AUF, doesn't that make more centre cases?


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## qqwref (Mar 9, 2011)

Certain corner cases allow you to AUF - if they're solved or all rotated the same way.


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## cubefan4848 (Mar 9, 2011)

I figured out what you are talking about now qqwref.
I'm such an idiot for not thinking of that.
That does drop it down by a bit.

Odder what you could do is put a link beside a method of where they could find the algs. I think this could help a lot of people.


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## Carrot (Mar 10, 2011)

cubefan4848 said:


> Odder what you could do is put a link beside a method of where they could find the algs. I think this could help a lot of people.


 
urgh... I don't know where to find anything but IWO algs and those algs are not speedoptimized... So you'll need to find the links for me  I will add the method QQ listed and hopefully soon the other method when you guess are willing to decide a name for it


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## cubefan4848 (Mar 10, 2011)

Odder said:


> urgh... I don't know where to find anything but IWO algs and those algs are not speedoptimized... So you'll need to find the links for me  I will add the method QQ listed and hopefully soon the other method when you guess are willing to decide a name for it


 What about the centre flipping algs for WO


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## Carrot (Mar 10, 2011)

cubefan4848 said:


> What about the centre flipping algs for WO


 
I know them by heart, so it's not really useful for me to have an alg sheet xD


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## riffz (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm making my own list of IWO algs. It's just a subset of Polish V algs.


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## antros (Mar 13, 2011)

Dear Odder, it's very annoying that you continue to using name: "Oka method (youtube style)", since Patterson has posted it before Yohei learned what is speedcubing,
Yohei is great speedcuber but he not invented and did not publish this method, such use this name IMO is very unfair to Patterson. Already told you this before, you answered that all they say and hard to no longer speak differently, but it's you have made the name popular.


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## paulangas (Mar 13, 2011)

hi, i use oka (youtube styles) , and i learning algoritms of polishv, but i searching a new method to get a sub 5 official avg ,( i have SAR. avg:5.07)


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## riffz (Mar 13, 2011)

antros said:


> Dear Odder, it's very annoying that you continue to using name: "Oka method (youtube style)", since Patterson has posted it before Yohei learned what is speedcubing,
> Yohei is great speedcuber but he not invented and did not publish this method, such use this name IMO is very unfair to Patterson. Already told you this before, you answered that all they say and hard to no longer speak differently, but it's you have made the name popular.


 
It's what everyone knows it as. Too late.


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## Tim Major (Mar 16, 2011)

antros said:


> but it's you have made the name popular.


 
I believe there was a Youtube video (not Odder's) with "Oka method." Got about 1000 views, and other tutorials, as this was an example solve, popped up with the name Oka.


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## Carrot (Mar 16, 2011)

antros said:


> Dear Odder, it's very annoying that you continue to using name: "Oka method (youtube style)", since Patterson has posted it before Yohei learned what is speedcubing,
> Yohei is great speedcuber but he not invented and did not publish this method, such use this name IMO is very unfair to Patterson. Already told you this before, you answered that all they say and hard to no longer speak differently, but it's you have made the name popular.


 
Dear Antros, I agree with you that Yohei Oka has NOTHING to do with the inventing of this method, but what so ever, when I came into tetrahedroning it was already mainstream calling it Oka method due to a lot of youtube videos. I will not disagree with you in how annoying it is, but personally I have only heard 2 persons calling it Richard Patterson's method,


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## qqwref (Mar 16, 2011)

Compromise: let's just call it Keyhole again.
- describes the way the method works
- same # of syllables as Oka so it doesn't take longer to say
- not biased against Oka or Patterson
- we can say Keyhole (youtube style) and Keyhole (Oka style) for the two subsets


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## Carrot (Mar 16, 2011)

qqwref said:


> Compromise: let's just call it Keyhole again.
> - describes the way the method works
> - same # of syllables as Oka so it doesn't take longer to say
> - not biased against Oka or Patterson
> - we can say Keyhole (youtube style) and Keyhole (Oka style) for the two subsets



the (Oka Style) subset is actually a method that I have not seen before I met Mr. Oka. So I think it is fair that that subset is named after him 


But let's try rename the (youtube style) to "Keyhole Method"!! =D


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## hic0057 (May 2, 2011)

Just wondering, you said Polish V has 30 algs but on this website it says 96. Why?
http://www.mzrg.com/rubik/solving/pyraminx/index.html


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## Tim Major (May 2, 2011)

That's 96 cases. Unless you count cases that take U/U' to set up as different algs, roughly 30 is correct.


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## CubingCockney (May 23, 2011)

Does anyone now where i can find the algs for the methods in here? I solve pyraminx with a crap method and i hate it. I want to get faster!


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## Zarxrax (May 23, 2011)

It would be nice if someone could make a list of the polish v algs WITHOUT all the unnecessary ones.


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## Kirjava (May 25, 2011)

Centres + Any 3 Edges -> Comm 3 Edges


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## Raiz (Aug 11, 2011)

which one of these should o learn?


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## Tim Major (Aug 11, 2011)

Kirjava said:


> Centres + Any 3 Edges -> Comm 3 Edges


 
Congratulations, you've invented Polish V/L4E. Only a few years late.


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## uberCuber (Aug 11, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> Congratulations, you've invented Polish V/L4E. Only a few years late.


 
I think his post was in response to this:



Zarxrax said:


> It would be nice if someone could make a list of the polish v algs WITHOUT all the unnecessary ones.


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## riffz (Aug 17, 2011)

Tim Major said:


> Congratulations, you've invented Polish V/L4E. Only a few years late.


 
It's not the same. It's only a subset.



uberCuber said:


> I think his post was in response to this:


 
I don't think so.


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## Carrot (Sep 11, 2011)

riffz said:


> It's not the same. It's only a subset.


 
It's Tim Major, he thinks everything is Polish V/L4E, he doesn't realize that splitting an approach into different substeps, gives a different feel of the "method"


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## misieuroo (Sep 2, 2012)

hic0057 said:


> Which method do you reccomend to use and do you know of any video tutorials.



1-flip is nice, see what I've just done with 100 solves :

number of times: 99/100
best time: 3.07
worst time: 22.12

current avg5: 6.50 (σ = 1.04)
best avg5: 4.84 (σ = 0.53)

current avg12: 6.94 (σ = 2.15)
best avg12: 5.90 (σ = 1.38)

current avg100: 7.62 (σ = 3.44)
best avg100: 7.62 (σ = 3.44)

session avg: 7.62 (σ = 3.44)
session mean: 7.57

Sub5 ao5 Yeah !

For the tutorial, see odder's tutorial here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbQW9_BCP9o

Hope it helped


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## wcaroman (Sep 18, 2012)

I write some articles for WO, Nutella and 1-Flip, maybe you find it useful.
Ofc, you don't understand ukrainian, but I think now it is no problem (try to use google translator or just forget about words and use pictures and algs)
http://cubing.com.ua/speed/wo
http://cubing.com.ua/speed/nutella
http://cubing.com.ua/speed/1-flip
Maybe you have some interesting ideas or methods for pyraminx, I will glad to hear it and share to people.


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## JasonK (Sep 18, 2012)

Alukret said:


> I write some articles for WO, Nutella and 1-Flip, maybe you find it useful.
> Ofc, you don't understand ukrainian, but I think now it is no problem (try to use google translator or just forget about words and use pictures and algs)
> http://cubing.com.ua/speed/wo
> http://cubing.com.ua/speed/nutella
> ...



This is really cool, might have to learn some new pyra tricks :tu


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## Coolster01 (Mar 23, 2013)

Thanks! What would I be called if I do keyhole except after the centers I solve the bottom edge? And then L3E on top?

Also, for 1-flip, you said laste not last. Just pointing out a mistake


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## Carrot (Mar 23, 2013)

Coolster01 said:


> Thanks! What would I be called if I do keyhole except after the centers I solve the bottom edge? And then L3E on top?
> 
> Also, for 1-flip, you said laste not last. Just pointing out a mistake



I have trouble seeing what you mean, to me it sounds like you hold the pyraminx retarded, or you on purpose set up a bad L3E  If it is the latter one I suspect you need to call it jam 

Thanks, It's probably filled with a lot of small errors, I haven't edited it for YEEEARS!


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## Coolster01 (Mar 23, 2013)

Odder said:


> I have trouble seeing what you mean, to me it sounds like you hold the pyraminx retarded, or you on purpose set up a bad L3E  If it is the latter one I suspect you need to call it jam
> 
> Thanks, It's probably filled with a lot of small errors, I haven't edited it for YEEEARS!



I dunno, I average sub 7 with it, so I'm not changing lol.


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## stevecho816 (Mar 23, 2013)

Coolster01 said:


> Thanks! What would I be called if I do keyhole except after the centers I solve the bottom edge? And then L3E on top?
> 
> Also, for 1-flip, you said laste not last. Just pointing out a mistake



I think your talking about the LBL method


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## Skye (Jun 2, 2013)

How does Neo63 get a sub 6 with LBL? I had a pyraminx for about a month and get only an average of 12


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## Username (Jun 2, 2013)

Skye said:


> How does Neo63 get a sub 6 with LBL? I had a pyraminx for about a month and get only an average of 12



Just keep practicing! One month isn't actually too long 

I think sub 3 is possible with LBL, though


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## Skye (Jun 2, 2013)

Sub 3 

anyway, does anyone have the IWO algs?


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## XTowncuber (Jun 2, 2013)

Sub 3 Ao12 with LBL has been done before (not by me), but I think consistent sub 3 is impossible for LBL. Too many moves, awkward LL algs.


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## Skye (Jun 2, 2013)

IWO algs please?


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## Tim Major (Aug 31, 2013)

Skye said:


> IWO algs please?



Sorry for the bump but I just wanted to point out that L4E algs cover the IWO set.
https://sites.google.com/site/devastatingspeed/pyraminx/l4e
Don't learn them like algs, all of them are intuitive and can be learned easier if you understand the cases.
There are a lot of L4E cases you don't need to know to know full IWO.


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## TylerBrodzinski (Dec 8, 2014)

What about the Bell method?


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## Username (Dec 8, 2014)

TylerBrodzinski said:


> What about the Bell method?



Last comment in this thread was over a year and three months ago. The first post was last updated almost 1 3/4 year ago. Bell method was introduced and got known pretty recently compared to those dates.


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## starcuber (Jun 23, 2015)

so many methods i learning wo or one flip and now omg


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## Isaac Lai (Jun 23, 2015)

starcuber said:


> so many methods i learning wo or one flip and now omg



1 flip should suffice, and oka and keyhole (though you should have learn't it before 1-flip) would be nice to learn. WO and nutella are only useful in good cases (which don't pop up that often).


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## Sue Doenim (Nov 15, 2016)

The backbone method should be renamed . . . wait for it . . . EOSpine!
I actually thought of it myself, and got really excited, but then I realized it already existed. Hooray for crushed dreams.


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