# This is not acceptable…



## BenChristman1 (Sep 14, 2022)

Hey everyone. Following the release of the Gan 13, I think that something needs to be done to keep these ever-increasing prices in check. The Gan 13 Maglev UV just dropped at 83.99 USD. In my mind, this is absolutely not okay.

We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too. I understand that all the propaganda that Gan puts out may be tempting. I know that some collectors will want to add to their collection. I encourage you to refrain. I know that the fastest speedcubers in this community think it will make you faster. Even people my speed and slower think that it’ll make them faster. This is not true. There are plenty of cubes that arguably perform better than Gan cubes for about 25% of the price. (Weilong WR M 2021, Tornado v2, etc.) If you are my speed (to be blunt), your cube is not the problem (unless you’re using a very bad cube, in which case, please consider purchasing one of the cubes I mentioned above), your skill level is.

Even though our Speedsolving.com community may only make up a small part of the total cubing community, maybe, just maybe, we will be able to create a downwards curve in the prices of Gan cubes.

Thank you everyone for reading this rant (that would be labeled an “opinion article” on a news website), and I really hope that you all consider boycotting the new Gan 13s. Thanks again, and happy cubing.


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## cuberswoop (Sep 14, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> Hey everyone. Following the release of the Gan 13, I think that something needs to be done to keep these ever-increasing prices in check. The Gan 13 Maglev UV just dropped at 83.99 USD. In my mind, this is absolutely not okay.
> 
> We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too. I understand that all the propaganda that Gan puts out may be tempting. I know that some collectors will want to add to their collection. I encourage you to refrain. I know that the fastest speedcubers in this community think it will make you faster. Even people my speed and slower think that it’ll make them faster. This is not true. There are plenty of cubes that arguably perform better than Gan cubes for about 25% of the price. (Weilong WR M 2021, Tornado v2, etc.) If you are my speed (to be blunt), your cube is not the problem (unless you’re using a very bad cube, in which case, please consider purchasing one of the cubes I mentioned above), your skill level is.
> 
> ...


Okie but I never had the money in the first place.

#BuyMoyuCheap


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## OreKehStrah (Sep 14, 2022)

Who cares? 

If you don't wanna pay that kind of money for a Gan cube, then simply don't. Like you said, plenty of great cubes exist for way less.
However, it doesn't matter if Gan wants to produce really expensive cubes. It's not like it harms you in any way. Just don't support their business if you don't like it. You better believe all these other companies would be charging those crazy high prices if they could. The profit margins are probably pretty high. 

That said, Gan is at least doing new things in a more refined way, at least to me. Consider maglev (barring whether or not it makes a difference to performance) and the approach Gan took vs other companies for implementing it. AFAIK all the other companies basically just replaced the spring with a set of magnets and called it a day, while Gan placed magnets in an adjustable housing so that the distance between magnets could be made the exact same on every side. Quite a nice touch imo.


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## gsingh (Sep 14, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too.
> 
> I really hope that you all consider boycotting the new Gan 13s.


Nah


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 14, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> Hey everyone. Following the release of the Gan 13, I think that something needs to be done to keep these ever-increasing prices in check. The Gan 13 Maglev UV just dropped at 83.99 USD. In my mind, this is absolutely not okay.
> 
> We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too. I understand that all the propaganda that Gan puts out may be tempting. I know that some collectors will want to add to their collection. I encourage you to refrain. I know that the fastest speedcubers in this community think it will make you faster. Even people my speed and slower think that it’ll make them faster. This is not true. There are plenty of cubes that arguably perform better than Gan cubes for about 25% of the price. (Weilong WR M 2021, Tornado v2, etc.) If you are my speed (to be blunt), your cube is not the problem (unless you’re using a very bad cube, in which case, please consider purchasing one of the cubes I mentioned above), your skill level is.
> 
> ...


Agreed. It's inching toward triple the costs of other flagships, and it would be very nice if their cubes were cheaper. Sure, there is the "if you don't want to pay it don't buy it" argument, but some people legitimately can't pay it, and I think you're right about GAN going ridiculously above the normal price for not much if any performance change.


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## abunickabhi (Sep 14, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> Hey everyone. Following the release of the Gan 13, I think that something needs to be done to keep these ever-increasing prices in check. The Gan 13 Maglev UV just dropped at 83.99 USD. In my mind, this is absolutely not okay.
> 
> We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too. I understand that all the propaganda that Gan puts out may be tempting. I know that some collectors will want to add to their collection. I encourage you to refrain. I know that the fastest speedcubers in this community think it will make you faster. Even people my speed and slower think that it’ll make them faster. This is not true. There are plenty of cubes that arguably perform better than Gan cubes for about 25% of the price. (Weilong WR M 2021, Tornado v2, etc.) If you are my speed (to be blunt), your cube is not the problem (unless you’re using a very bad cube, in which case, please consider purchasing one of the cubes I mentioned above), your skill level is.
> 
> ...


I agree.

Fortunately I have not purchased any Gan cube since 2015. Budget cubes from MoYu got so better and cheaper that I hoarded them instead.


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## OreKehStrah (Sep 14, 2022)

Eli Apperson said:


> Agreed. It's inching toward triple the costs of other flagships, and it would be very nice if their cubes were cheaper. Sure, there is the "if you don't want to pay it don't buy it" argument, but some people legitimately can't pay it, and I think you're right about GAN going ridiculously above the normal price for not much if any performance change.


Gan also releases later versions of their cubes than remove extra features most people won't even adjust to meet more affordable price points. Factor in discount codes and sales and it becomes quite easy to get a Gan cube at way less than their exorbitant retail prices. 

Like I mentioned earlier, Gan at least innovates and brings to market new adjustable systems while most other companies are just iterating and the same features as previous cubes. There is going to be a naturally higher price tag to cover R&D. 

At the end of the day, they are a business and don't owe people lower prices. The entire point is of course making profit and selling expensive cubes with large profit is what any cube company wants to do. Gan is just uniquely positioned where they can change those prices. There's always the less expensive versions for those that can't afford the absolute flagship cubes.


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## gsingh (Sep 14, 2022)

OreKehStrah said:


> Gan also releases later versions of their cubes than remove extra features most people won't even adjust to meet more affordable price points. Factor in discount codes and sales and it becomes quite easy to get a Gan cube at way less than their exorbitant retail prices.


Agreed. I got a Gan 11 M Duo for $22, which is just a Gan 11 M Pro without adjustable magnets. I also got a Gan 12 Maglev for $54. Just wait for a sale or buy a less expensive version.

Also, only the new Gan cubes are crazy expensive. A Gan Air M (XS without adjustable magnets) is $25, and it's really good. (At least as good if not better than the WRM Maglev)


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 14, 2022)

OreKehStrah said:


> Gan also releases later versions of their cubes than remove extra features most people won't even adjust to meet more affordable price points. Factor in discount codes and sales and it becomes quite easy to get a Gan cube at way less than their exorbitant retail prices.


Let's look at the 11 M Duo. $40+, more then any other 2020 flagship from any other brand, and not significantly better or different. 


OreKehStrah said:


> Like I mentioned earlier, Gan at least innovates and brings to market new adjustable systems while most other companies are just iterating and the same features as previous cubes. There is going to be a naturally higher price tag to cover R&D.


Sure, they might have some new innovation, but do those minor performance changes justify a x3 price?


OreKehStrah said:


> At the end of the day, they are a business and don't owe people lower prices.


That's true, but at the same time any good company should know what their customers desire.


OreKehStrah said:


> The entire point is of course making profit and selling expensive cubes with large profit is what any cube company wants to do. Gan is just uniquely positioned where they can change those prices.


Sure, they can change the prices, but inevitably as they keep going up things like this will happen to hopefully moderate them.


OreKehStrah said:


> There's always the less expensive versions for those that can't afford the absolute flagship cubes.


Already addressed it. Even the toned downed versions are still double and triple the costs of other cubes.


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## gsingh (Sep 14, 2022)

Eli Apperson said:


> Already addressed it. Even the toned downed versions are still double and triple the costs of other cubes.











GAN 354 M V2 3x3


The GAN354 M V2 is a miniature, magnetic 3x3 speed cube that emulates the performance of GAN356 X. At just 54mm, the GAN354 M V2 boasts a comfortable, compact feel and is especially ideal for one-handed enthusiasts and cubers with smaller hands. The GAN354 M V2 has a softer, springier feel...




www.thecubicle.com












GAN 356 M Lite 3x3


The GAN 356 M Lite is a modern, mid-range magnetic 3x3 speed cube by popular manufacturer GAN. This version comes with GAN’s unique hand adjustable Numerical IPG Core and blue GES nuts installed. Out of the box, the GAN 356 M Lite has a fast, stable feel that is very reminiscent of a mix between...




www.thecubicle.com












GAN 356 Air M 3x3


The GAN 356 Air M is a magnetic 3x3 speed cube, a modern remake of GAN’s classic cube, the GAN 356 Air. Lightweight and quick, the GAN 356 Air M is a great choice for cubers who prioritize low weight and high maneuverability. This new version of the GAN Air comes with GAN’s newest dual...




www.thecubicle.com












GAN 356 X V2 3x3


Only the black stickered version of the puzzle is available. The stickerless version which is pictured is discontinued and will not be restocked. The GAN 356 X V2 is GAN's newest update to the famous GAN 356 X. This new magnetic 3x3 speed cube is outfitted with a matte exterior and shares the...




www.thecubicle.com





"Double triple costs"


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 14, 2022)

gsingh said:


> GAN 354 M V2 3x3
> 
> 
> The GAN354 M V2 is a miniature, magnetic 3x3 speed cube that emulates the performance of GAN356 X. At just 54mm, the GAN354 M V2 boasts a comfortable, compact feel and is especially ideal for one-handed enthusiasts and cubers with smaller hands. The GAN354 M V2 has a softer, springier feel...
> ...


We're talking about the recent 60, 70, 80+ dollar flagships. All of those are versions of the X, a cube from 2018?


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## gsingh (Sep 14, 2022)

Eli Apperson said:


> We're talking about the recent 60, 70, 80+ dollar flagships. All of those are versions of the X, a cube from 2018?


And XS, but that does not mean that they aren't good cubes.


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## Thom S. (Sep 14, 2022)

Disagree
GAN wants to be the top brand being top of the line. Namely if you're the fastest, only a GAN will unlock all of your potential.
Now, if that is true is debatable. Sure, the GAN Feliks used bacl then would have been way faster than the Thunderclap V2 I still use, but do I care enough to have another 3x3? I didn't, so it wasn't on my radar.
Unfortunitly, there are always things too expensive for one. I'd love to get a formating table saw with 4x2 Meter capacity for my company but it costs 35k+ so the 4k 2.7x0.7 Meter capacity I bought in my apprenticeship for 4k has to do and a hobby woodworker buys one for 400. 
GAN makes expensive cubes and you can get slightly less good cubes for way less. That's how it works in many things.
Quality makes price go up exponentially.
But 80€ and you can use the thing effectively forever doesn't seem that bad to me.


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## LBr (Sep 14, 2022)

I would say that the price of new flagship cubes has inched up over the years. That’s one of the reasons I never got the gan 12. 
Having said that, ik this is gonna be controversial. But with the way the world is, is 84$ today worth more than 78$ 1 year ago when the gan 12 came out? I don’t think so due to inflation. Btw I’m not trying to justify the price, but I think inflation was the factor that pushed it over 80.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 14, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> Hey everyone. Following the release of the Gan 13, I think that something needs to be done to keep these ever-increasing prices in check. The Gan 13 Maglev UV just dropped at 83.99 USD. In my mind, this is absolutely not okay.
> 
> We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too. I understand that all the propaganda that Gan puts out may be tempting. I know that some collectors will want to add to their collection. I encourage you to refrain. I know that the fastest speedcubers in this community think it will make you faster. Even people my speed and slower think that it’ll make them faster. This is not true. There are plenty of cubes that arguably perform better than Gan cubes for about 25% of the price. (Weilong WR M 2021, Tornado v2, etc.) If you are my speed (to be blunt), your cube is not the problem (unless you’re using a very bad cube, in which case, please consider purchasing one of the cubes I mentioned above), your skill level is.
> 
> ...


Seriously why do you actually care so much if you are not buying their cubes in the first place. If you don't want to or can't afford one don't buy it. It's that simple really. There are many people who like GAN cubes and are happy to pay the price charged. If you believe that you get the performance you need from something cheaper then just buy that. Quit whining about the price.

This comes up every time GAN releases a new iteration of their flagship cube, and to be honest it's tiring and annoying. Just keep walking.


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## Imsoosm (Sep 14, 2022)

abunickabhi said:


> I agree.
> 
> Fortunately I have not purchased any Gan cube since 2015. Budget cubes from MoYu got so better and cheaper that I hoarded them instead.


Lol what happened to using Gan 13 Maglev for multi-blind


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## LBr (Sep 14, 2022)

Joke.
It was a joke


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## Timona (Sep 14, 2022)




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## cuberswoop (Sep 14, 2022)

Timona said:


> View attachment 20703


France.


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## kubesolver (Sep 14, 2022)

I rely don't get the hate...

The only reason to get angry at company for having unreasonably high prices is if they are doing so by abusing some form of monopoly. They don't. Rubik's do. Speedstack do.

Just don't buy gan cubes. There are plenty of quality cheaper options. 

Make fun of people like me who buy those overpriced garbage cubes but don't hate on the company. Cone on


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## Super_Cuber903 (Sep 14, 2022)

I agree, the problem is not that prices of gan cubes are high, but the main problem is that the other companies may also start increasing g their prices and this will be a serious loss to the cubing community. If such a thing happens, come on man, you cannot keep on paying 80 dollars for every cube.


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## Thom S. (Sep 14, 2022)

Super_Cuber903 said:


> I agree, the problem is not that prices of gan cubes are high, but the main problem is that the other companies may also start increasing g their prices and this will be a serious loss to the cubing community. If such a thing happens, come on man, you cannot keep on paying 80 dollars for every cube.


I've written 5 Paragraphs but nobody cares about me anyway, so.
1. That's not how the global market works.
2. Isn't it great if there are cheap cubes and expensive cubes. A current Pagani accelerates just .1 second slower than a current Koenigsegg but there is about a Million € difference between the two and my Hyundai drives just a well but cost me only 7k.
3. How often would you buy an 80£ Cube? There are only few instances where a cube broke/is too badly worn to be used anymore from just solving alone(my Qiyi Sq-1 that I keep repeating has over 40.000 solves on it and because there is no better Sq1 on the Market I still use it but it works just as great at with 1.000 solves.) So it's not like a cube is a consumable item.


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## DuckubingCuber347 (Sep 14, 2022)

Just don't buy GAN cubes.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 14, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> Hey everyone. Following the release of the Gan 13, I think that something needs to be done to keep these ever-increasing prices in check. The Gan 13 Maglev UV just dropped at 83.99 USD. In my mind, this is absolutely not okay.
> 
> We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too. I understand that all the propaganda that Gan puts out may be tempting. I know that some collectors will want to add to their collection. I encourage you to refrain. I know that the fastest speedcubers in this community think it will make you faster. Even people my speed and slower think that it’ll make them faster. This is not true. There are plenty of cubes that arguably perform better than Gan cubes for about 25% of the price. (Weilong WR M 2021, Tornado v2, etc.) If you are my speed (to be blunt), your cube is not the problem (unless you’re using a very bad cube, in which case, please consider purchasing one of the cubes I mentioned above), your skill level is.
> 
> ...



I've boycotted the 12 Maglev for the same exact reason. I've bought every Gan cube (sometimes multiple copies) all the way up to Gan 11 which I have 2 UV editions of. But when the 12 Maglev came out and it was almost $80. I said 'enough is enough'.

I'm doing the same for the 13.

Yes I would love to add a Gan 12 and 13 to my collection and I'd love to have Gan Maglev editions, but i refuse to spend almost $80. on a single 3x3 cube.

It just encourages them to continue to raise prices every year and at this rate we'll hit $100. Gan cubes in 2-3 years.


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## xyzzy (Sep 14, 2022)

My 20000 dollars from a while ago:


> I don't think I've explicitly mentioned my stance on cube pricing before, so here's my two million cents.
> 
> If cubes were targeted solely (or at least primarily) at an adult audience, then it absolutely makes sense for companies to price their products as high as however much people can pay for. Go ahead and crank up the price until profit is maximised! But speedcubing also has a huge child audience, and it seems kind of predatory that the one company that sponsors a huge proportion of the most famous fast cubers (Feliks, Max, Ruihang, etc.?) is also the one company that has much higher prices than all the other brands.
> 
> (Note: I know jack about sociology or economics or child psychology. For all I know, maybe this is acceptable behaviour to most of the world.)



You can, and should, vote with your wallet if you don't like their prices, but that's largely only applicable if you're buying the cubes for yourself. When it comes to parents buying cubes for their children, that's where GAN's flagship pricing doesn't sit right with me.


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## Super_Cuber903 (Sep 14, 2022)

Thom S. said:


> I've written 5 Paragraphs but nobody cares about me anyway, so.
> 1. That's not how the global market works.
> 2. Isn't it great if there are cheap cubes and expensive cubes. A current Pagani accelerates just .1 second slower than a current Koenigsegg but there is about a Million € difference between the two and my Hyundai drives just a well but cost me only 7k.
> 3. How often would you buy an 80£ Cube? There are only few instances where a cube broke/is too badly worn to be used anymore from just solving alone(my Qiyi Sq-1 that I keep repeating has over 40.000 solves on it and because there is no better Sq1 on the Market I still use it but it works just as great at with 1.000 solves.) So it's not like a cube is a consumable item.


You have a point but everyone has their own perspective and I just shared mine


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## Mastermind2368 (Sep 14, 2022)

Being a broke at thirteen back in like 2017, I never ended up buying a Gan cube, even though they were like only ~30$ or something, I just went for things like the Aolong V2, Thunderclap, and The Valk. I do think that there is and has always been a misconception that certain speedcubes will increase your speed on their own, and I think as a community we should discourage mindless consumerism of super expensive cubes. But with that being said, some people may genuinely want a premium customizable cube. If you're going to be doing lots of cubing, it makes sense that you would want to invest in a high quality product, as long as you're aware it is in luxury territory rather than an absolute necessity. 

Remember that at the end of the day, these are businesses. They use supply vs demand principals to calculate how much their products should be sold for. If you could sell cubic pieces of plastic for 80$ and have the community surge out to buy it, wouldn't you? I think we do need to keep awareness that speed comes from skill, rather than a premium level cube. But as long as people do understand this, I feel as if there's no need to be personally upset with Gan. If they were really charging too much, their sales would decrease and they would make price cuts.


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## PapaSmurf (Sep 14, 2022)

Fun fact: last 3x3 I bought was an RSM (the version that was around in 2019). I currently main a valk elite.
Another fun fact: I use an iPhone 7+ that I got from someone pretty cheaply when the iPhone 8 was released.
A third fun fact: you do not need to buy every new thing.
Fun fact number 4: you would probably be better off buying something that will last rather than replacing something that works fine, financially, personally and environmentally.
An extra fun fact: any flagship cube released in 2017 onwards will be good enough to allow you to get to the speed where you would start to be sponsored. 
One more fun fact to round it off: you don't need to buy Gan cubes, not because they're evil for having high prices, but because you don't need a Gan cube (or any new flagship cube for that matter). Save your pocket and the world a bit of stress and use an older and cheaper cube.

PS. I'm not your dad, do what you want.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 14, 2022)

Mastermind2368 said:


> If they were really charging too much, their sales would decrease and they would make price cuts.



Exactly. At the end of the day the Market will decide.

If people think Gan is worth an $80. cube they will sell thousands of them.

if people think Gan is not worth $80. for a cube they will not sell as many as they did previous cubes.

I'm sure like any intelligent company they keep a firm grip on watching their sales and if they continue to see sales rising while they raise prices, they will continue to raise prices until they hit a pain point where they notice sales are dropping off. Then they know at what price point the Market has decided their cubes to be worth.

And the end of the day the Market always decides. For a Chinese company I'm sure they're loving Capitalism because that's what's driving their prices up and up.

If everyone suddenly decided they would not pay more than $50. for a Gan cube then suddenly all Gan flagship cubes would be $50.

They WILL charge as much as they possibly can charge. That's just business. I don't fault them for that or hold it against them in any way. I love Gan cubes. I've just personally decided I'm not spending $80. on a 3x3 plastic cube; I think that's ridiculous.

But at the same time I've bought like five Gan 11's. A stickered one, a frosted one, two UV ones, and a Duo. So I'm obviously willing to spend money on Gan cubes, (and that's just the 11's, I have all the Airs, and all the 356 variants, Pyraminx, 2x2 and 4x4 (which aren't very good), the Megaminx).. I really like Gan and will spend $60. on a single cube.

So for me my price point I guess is $60. for a single cube,.. and I guess for big cubes and more extreme cubes like Teraminx my point is around $200. for a single cube.

Everyone has 'that point' in their mind, their budget, their wallet. Everyone has that dividing line between a price they will or wont spend on a single puzzle.

Gan as a business is just pushing the line and boundaries and trying to find where that point is for the entire Market. I don't blame them, it's just business.

But at the same time I totally understand and agree with the OP that maybe it's time we as consumers and cubers start saying, _"No, $80. is too much to ask."_

If nothing else it's good thing to think about and discuss. It's a fun discussion. At what point will the market say, _"I don't care how nice, new, or flagship this new cube is, I'm not paying that much for a single 3x3 cube." _

I suspect the Market will not tolerate a $100. 3x3 puzzle cube. But it will tolerate a $50. puzzle cube.

So the question is at what point in between those two price points will the Market say, "No."

That's what GAN is trying to figure out.

And if nothing else I'm enjoying watching it all play out. Because I'm curious myself at what point the Market will say, "No."


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## Rubuscu (Sep 14, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> Hey everyone. Following the release of the Gan 13, I think that something needs to be done to keep these ever-increasing prices in check. The Gan 13 Maglev UV just dropped at 83.99 USD. In my mind, this is absolutely not okay.
> 
> We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too. I understand that all the propaganda that Gan puts out may be tempting. I know that some collectors will want to add to their collection. I encourage you to refrain. I know that the fastest speedcubers in this community think it will make you faster. Even people my speed and slower think that it’ll make them faster. This is not true. There are plenty of cubes that arguably perform better than Gan cubes for about 25% of the price. (Weilong WR M 2021, Tornado v2, etc.) If you are my speed (to be blunt), your cube is not the problem (unless you’re using a very bad cube, in which case, please consider purchasing one of the cubes I mentioned above), your skill level is.
> 
> ...


The main point is that what GAN is doing is legally right but ethically wrong.


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## OreKehStrah (Sep 14, 2022)

Rubuscu said:


> The main point is that what GAN is doing is legally right but ethically wrong.


It is in no way ethically wrong. No one is forced to pay them any money. They are not obligated to sell a cube at a price anyone can afford. Gan cubes are a luxury not a necessity.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 14, 2022)

yup it's just business. They could make the cube for $1. each and sell them for $100. each, that's just business. And $99. profit would be amazing for them.

Gibson sells $6,000. guitars. They could sell them much cheaper but why would they? If people have decided they're willing to spend $6,000. on a Gibson guitar why should Gibson sell them cheaper? Especially if they're a publicly traded company_ (I have no idea if they are),_ they're legally responsible to make as much money for their shareholders as possible since they have a fiduciary responsibility to do so. 

Is Gan pubilically traded? I have no idea. I don't even know if the Chinese Market works like ours or others. But I do know businesses are in the business to make money. Period. They don't have to be nice, or ethical, or even moral. The bottom line flat out is, _"make as much money as possible." _

Gan will charge whatever people are willing to pay. 

Every single consumer must and will vote with their dollars. 

I play Fender Telecaster guitars because I don't want to spend $6,000. on a fancy Gibson guitar. That's my vote. I'd rather play a guitar that if I drop it it will dent the floor and I'll worry more about the floor being hurt than the guitar, lol. 

The discussion of Cubes and Cube manufacturing as a business is pretty interesting though. I wonder sometimes about The Cubicle and SpeedCubeShop and wonder what their overhead vs profit really is. You wouldn't think a 'Cube Shop' would be a lucrative business but obviously they're succeeding in it. 

I suspect buying in bulk like these shops do they get the cubes much, much cheaper than you and I do buying them from TC, SCS, or even Amazon. 

.... I guess that's another discussion though. But 'The Cube Economy' does interest me.


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## Thom S. (Sep 14, 2022)

I think this is a good thing to theorize about.


Mastermind2368 said:


> I do think that there is and has always been a misconception that certain speedcubes will increase your speed on their own


I think this is the worst in the Youtube Community. I think 60% of Edmarters comments tell them to buy a new cube when losening would make it just as good.



Mastermind2368 said:


> If you're going to be doing lots of cubing, it makes sense that you would want to invest in a high quality product,


That I think is a big point. If you are sub 15 or whatever, you may get .2seconds faster by switching to the GAN, but you have seconds to shave off everywhere. If you are sub 6 or whatever, need to do Ao100 every day to keep fresh, it makes sense that you take this seriously enough to get the best of the best.


PapaSmurf said:


> Fun fact: last 3x3 I bought was an RSM (the version that was around in 2019). I currently main a valk elite.
> Another fun fact: I use an iPhone 7+ that I got from someone pretty cheaply when the iPhone 8 was released.
> A third fun fact: you do not need to buy every new thing.
> Fun fact number 4: you would probably be better off buying something that will last rather than replacing something that works fine, financially, personally and environmentally.
> ...


Mine was a Thunderclap v2. Sure, it locks up, but is the cube the weak link in our relationship or am I?
Galaxy A5, made in 2015, wanted a J5 but they only had the more Powerful A5 in Stock. Didn't regret that.
Nothing to add.
Humans like shiny things. If your cube is a year old, you have gotten used to it and then you look at a brand new cube from all those reviews, which naturally say the best things and you want that shiny new thing. Human nature at this point, we've all been there sometimes.
Feliks and Lau did Sub 8 and Sub 7 Ao100 with both Zhanchis and Weilongs. Ju Nakajima did a 7(?) Second single on a sanded down Rubiks 1.0. Any speedcube that was 'Good Quality' at some point eill get you to your goal.
Not that I couldn't, I earn enough, but I don't think I need a new 3x3 when the old one still works. Same with probably over 99% of cubers.


Rubuscu said:


> The main point is that what GAN is doing is legally right but ethically wrong.


It was ethnically wrong when all dairy refiners decided to make butter 30c more expensive and give the farmers nothing more but tell the consumer it was the greedy farmers(happened in 2018, look it up)
You don't need a GAN. Even if you needed a cube to survive, you don't need a GAN.


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## DavyP (Sep 15, 2022)

I think in the case of Gan it’s clearly not something you need. You could argue that about anything, do you need a flavoured bottle of mineral water or will the tap do the job. It’s about desire, Gan create a buzz with their marketing, throw in some sexy packaging, have the top cubers use their product and therefore create the desire to own a Gan Cube. 

It also helps that the cubes (excluding as far as my experience the 12 Maglev which I didnt gel with) are really good to use.

Well I’ve bought into the hype and my pre order is placed


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## NigelTheCuber (Sep 15, 2022)

The problem here is that some people (mostly beginners) are mistaken by the prices into thinking that the cube is good. As cubes are mostly bought online, you might say 'hey, this moyu cube costs $20 but this shiny and fast gan cube costs $80!' And they might watch people like Feliks and Tymon using gan cubes and think that gans can cut 5 seconds off your average, and end up buying the gan cube. This is what we need to change.


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## PapaSmurf (Sep 15, 2022)

I agree, but that's just clever marketing. If you wanna put out the info against that, be my guest.


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## EngiNerdBrian (Sep 15, 2022)

OreKehStrah said:


> However, it doesn't matter if Gan wants to produce really expensive cubes.* It's not like it harms you in any way*. Just don't support their business if you don't like it.


This is sound life advice. It is often not the ACTIONS of others that harm us or cause stress but OUR JUDGEMENTS of their actions that bring us angst. Choose not to care about Gan and their products and you don't need to waste mental and emotional calories bantering over the ridiculousness of their prices. 

That said, @BenChristman1 I do agree the best way for the community to vote against Gan prices is simply to not buy their cubes. 

It's worth considering though that if you think the cost of their cubes is too high *you aren't their target audience.* Are you also upset about the high price of Lamborghinis or that dinners can cost thousands of dollars at high end 5 star restaurants? Those items have high prices and can be considered superfluous yet you aren't feeling angst about them. Those companies aren't after your dollars but someone else who is happy to pay the high price...same with Gan.


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## Ander (Sep 15, 2022)

As I see it, GAN is trying to innovate and is pushing the other companies toward producing better cubes too, which is good because everybody can benefit: if you want the latest GAN and you are OK with spending more, you get it; if you don't, you are going to get something very very similar in a little while at way less. Win-win.
Also, improvements trickle down from flagships to other cubes, so some budget cubes of today are arguably better than the flagships of a few years ago... Without constant improvements, you wouldn't have this process.
Also, we should not forget two important points: first, R&D has costs. It's not like they are selling millions of cubes of their flagship, so this cost is going to be tangible. Second, the law of diminishing returns implies that to get something that is (or appears to be) just a little better you spend way more: this is just how the market works in general.
No, I'm not going to boycott GAN. I am going to get the 13 as soon as I can buy it from my usual online shop, because if anything I want them to create even better products, to stimulate other companies to do the same, and to make sure those cute features gradually appear in cubes that others are able to buy.

PS: we should count ourselves lucky; cubing is about as inexpensive a hobby / sport as you can find. Except for walking, maybe.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 15, 2022)

Ander said:


> As I see it, GAN is trying to innovate and is pushing the other companies toward producing better cubes too, which is good because everybody can benefit: if you want the latest GAN and you are OK with spending more, you get it; if you don't, *you are going to get something very very similar in a little while at way less. Win-win.
> Also, improvements trickle down from flagships to other cubes, so some budget cubes of today are arguably better than the flagships of a few years ago... Without constant improvements, you wouldn't have this process.*
> Also, we should not forget two important points: first, R&D has costs. It's not like they are selling millions of cubes of their flagship, so this cost is going to be tangible. Second, the law of diminishing returns implies that to get something that is (or appears to be) just a little better you spend way more: this is just how the market works in general.
> No, I'm not going to boycott GAN. I am going to get the 13 as soon as I can buy it from my usual online shop, because if anything I want them to create even better products, to stimulate other companies to do the same, and to make sure those cute features gradually appear in cubes that others are able to buy.
> ...



Yeah I saw yesterday that TheCubicle now has the RS3M maglev with a magnetic core. Basically it seems like a (sort of) copy of the Gan 12. Didn't know it existed. 

So I ordered it, just to see what it's like.


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## Sion (Sep 15, 2022)

I say buy them if you like. 

If you want GAN, you can get it.

GAN also has a lot of other puzzles and products, all of which have similar performance to one another. 

GAN has the 354M V2 (Regular and Explorer), 356 Air M 3x3, Air SM 2019, the 356M (regular and lite), and the 356X v2, all of which are under $30. 

GAN doesn't deviate heavily from generation to generation of hardware in terms of actual part strucutre, so you aren't going to be getting anything radically different from what is their current flagship outside of the technology itself. 

If you want the latest and greatest, that's ultimately your choice to pay, but you aren't missing out on much other than the technology itself. 

Is GAN going to make you faster? If it's what you look for in a cube, likely. If it isn't, probably not. It's up to the consumer to decide if the innovation is worth the price tag.


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## Cubing_Marmot (Sep 15, 2022)

Like many people have been saying Gan is not forcing you to buy their cubes. If you want a Gan cube it really is not that much compared to other hobbies like a private lesson for soccer may cost you anywhere from 50 to 300 dollars. If you feel like you would use the cube a lot I would not be against buying it.


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 15, 2022)

Cubing_Marmot said:


> Like many people have been saying Gan is not forcing you to buy their cubes. If you want a Gan cube it really is not that much compared to other hobbies like a private lesson for soccer may cost you anywhere from 50 to 300 dollars. If you feel like you would use the cube a lot I would not be against buying it.


We aren't comparing gan to private lessons in a completely different hobby, we're comparing it so cubes within the same hobby. 
The main reason I agree with Ben is I would like Gan cubes to be cheaper so I can justify buying them. And a large scale boycott would certainly accomplish that. It seems however, that most of the online community is fine with their ridiculous prices, so I suppose people who hold my opinion will just have to not have gan cubes. Thankfully, qiyi and moyu are better anyway. XP


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## turtwig (Sep 15, 2022)

Is refusing to buy something because you think it's too expensive a boycott? It seems like you just think the product is not worth the price, which is the normal way people decide what they do and do not buy, hardly a boycott.


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 15, 2022)

turtwig said:


> Is refusing to buy something because you think it's too expensive a boycott? It seems like you just think the product is not worth the price, which is the normal way people decide what they do and do not buy, hardly a boycott.


A boycott is meant to change something, simply choosing not to buy something is an individual action. So no in most situations one person not buying something wouldn't be a boycott


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## turtwig (Sep 15, 2022)

Eli Apperson said:


> A boycott is meant to change something


But what do you expect to change? You already were not going to buy it (at least I'm assuming that if you are saying the cube is too expensive), GAN does not lose anything by the fact that you say it is because you are boycotting it.


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 15, 2022)

turtwig said:


> But what do you expect to change? You already were not going to buy it (at least I'm assuming that if you are saying the cube is too expensive), GAN does not lose anything by the fact that you say it is because you are boycotting it.


Like I said, one individual not buying something isn't going to change anything. A boycott has to be the loss of enough sales to impact the company revenue. So, for sake of correctness, I'll say I'm "not buying Gan cubes" instead of saying I'm boycotting them.


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## Silky (Sep 15, 2022)

Eli Apperson said:


> Like I said, one individual not buying something isn't going to change anything


Furthermore, telling OP to not buy Gan cubes is a non-argument. Telling someone who doesn't buy Gan cubes to not buy Gan cubes does nothing ( you can't buy negative cubes afterall ). They have no effect on the profit margin since they aren't a part of it in the first place. So the only way to be successful in collective action is to have people that are _currently_ buying Gan cubes to _stop _buying Gan cubes. And, I mean, that's the whole point of the post..


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## baseballjello67 (Sep 16, 2022)

Gan is not meant to be for anyone. It is a luxury brand. Why do you think they price their cubes at such high prices?


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## Garf (Sep 16, 2022)

Here are my thoughts on this argument:
I have my own GAN puzzle the 11 m pro. Some people say it's flimsy; at some settings, it is so. Some people might say that it has bad corner cutting; it is average for me. It is fast and unstable; you should make the settings tighter. Now, the settings are not the most optimal, but they do. The Tornado V3 may have the most optimal settings, but that is not the point of this. It is the cuber, not the cube or the people who made the cube. However, GAN does create a situation where people think it's good and buy it, only to find out it isn't breaking every pb they have. This is why you do research.
Ben, you put up an argument on boycotting against the prices of cubes that GAN puts them at. I believe the reason why GAN puts their cubes at such a high price is potentially because of research, resources, production, machinery, etc. So many factors goes into each puzzle. No 2 puzzles are exactly identical. They need plastic that is strong, yet light and high quality. They need magnets, and a whole bunch of other things that I can include in the sentence above this one.
You guys have to remember, the price is just there because of stuff that GAN had to do to make the puzzle, not just the puzzle itself.


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## PapaSmurf (Sep 16, 2022)

Another thing that has been mentioned, but worth reiterating. Older Gan puzzles drop in price over time. The Gan X v2 costs $30, while when it was released, it cost $50 (according to this Cubicle video). So you can get the same cube for $20 less, and it's still a really good cube that won't slow you down.

What happens is that cubes go down in price over time because they lose the "this is new" factor. If you wait for a bit, you can still get a really good flagship cube for less. So buy new Gan cubes, as it makes the ones that are (basically) equally as good more accessable for everyone else, and you help drive innovation. I'm not gonna join you and you shouldn't really either, but again, I'm not your dad - do what you want.


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## Imsoosm (Sep 16, 2022)

PapaSmurf said:


> I'm not your dad - do what you want.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 16, 2022)

PapaSmurf said:


> Another thing that has been mentioned, but worth reiterating. Older Gan puzzles drop in price over time. The Gan X v2 costs $30, while when it was released, it cost $50 (according to this Cubicle video). So you can get the same cube for $20 less, and it's still a really good cube that won't slow you down.
> 
> What happens is that cubes go down in price over time because they lose the "this is new" factor. If you wait for a bit, you can still get a really good flagship cube for less. So buy new Gan cubes, as it makes the ones that are (basically) equally as good more accessable for everyone else, and you help drive innovation. I'm not gonna join you and you shouldn't really either, but again, I'm not your dad - do what you want.



yes that's why I always say the 356 Lite M is probably the best Gan deal. It's a fantastic magnetic cube. It has that soft/smooth Gan 'feel', and it's only like $25.

(I like the whole 356 line, I think the 356 X and XS are great also) 

Out of all the Gans I've tried though I have to admit I really, really like the 11 M Pro.


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## Kaedenthecuber (Sep 16, 2022)

My opinion on Gan
if you have the money and you are sure you will like it, buy it
if you think that no other cube is good for you, buy it.
just remember that top cubers use gan because it is good and they are sponsored so they get them for free.
I think if Gan wants to stay the apple of cubing, they should stop raising prices as it is only going to give them lesser sales. i think no speedcube should be more than 100 dollars as those cubes are good and many more deserve to have them. (it already is 100+ dollars where I live)


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## baseballjello67 (Sep 16, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> Hey everyone. Following the release of the Gan 13, I think that something needs to be done to keep these ever-increasing prices in check. The Gan 13 Maglev UV just dropped at 83.99 USD. In my mind, this is absolutely not okay.
> 
> We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too. I understand that all the propaganda that Gan puts out may be tempting. I know that some collectors will want to add to their collection. I encourage you to refrain. I know that the fastest speedcubers in this community think it will make you faster. Even people my speed and slower think that it’ll make them faster. This is not true. There are plenty of cubes that arguably perform better than Gan cubes for about 25% of the price. (Weilong WR M 2021, Tornado v2, etc.) If you are my speed (to be blunt), your cube is not the problem (unless you’re using a very bad cube, in which case, please consider purchasing one of the cubes I mentioned above), your skill level is.
> 
> ...


What I think is not acceptable is:

1) You are saying we should boycott when we have our own choice
2) You are treating GAN like everyone must buy their cubes and GAN is forcing us to buy it. They aren't! They are adding features we have never seen before in a 3x3, like edge-core magnets as well as corner-core magnets, and if you don't want to buy it, don't! If you wanna buy it, go for it! You shouldn't care about what other people do.


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## cuberswoop (Sep 16, 2022)

baseballjello67 said:


> What I think is not acceptable is:
> 
> 1) You are saying we should boycott when we have our own choice
> 2) You are treating GAN like everyone must buy their cubes and GAN is forcing us to buy it. They aren't! They are adding features we have never seen before in a 3x3, like edge-core magnets as well as corner-core magnets, and if you don't want to buy it, don't! If you wanna buy it, go for it! You shouldn't care about what other people do.


This is the most I've ever wanted to eyes up a post In my life.


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## baseballjello67 (Sep 16, 2022)

cuberswoop said:


> This is the most I've ever wanted to eyes up a post In my life.


Then why don't you do it?


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## cuberswoop (Sep 16, 2022)

baseballjello67 said:


> Then why don't you do it?


Because I don't want to huwt yowr feewings.


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## baseballjello67 (Sep 16, 2022)

cuberswoop said:


> Because I don't want to huwt yowr feewings.


I honestly don't care because you do it a lot........

EDIT: You react negatively a lot.


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## Thom S. (Sep 16, 2022)

Let's try to clear the trauma up a bit.
There were many good arguments and some of them compared the market of cubing to the market of Supercars. Some of you didn't like that either, although it goes with the same principle. Koenigsegg for example is a key innovator(kind of the only brand besides Hyundai that haven't dropped the manual without any reason) and therefore it's understandable they have such a big pricetag and we can argue that many design elements have originated from GAN. But enough of that.

There have been many arguments but I think the most compelling are that it leads kids and adults with either no experience or bad judgement to believe it will solve their cube selection problem. On the other side development and quality needs more funds than closing a gap that has already been forming.
If a kid sees this good cube, all the(sponsored or "advised") reviews praise it as the solution to speedsolving, that's the cube they are gonna want. Convincing parents to buy that won't be too hard I imagine. And so bad judgement of money begins. But, due to allowance and cost of living, you can often see posts of teens with their own money wanting the new GAN so badly not being able to afford it.
GAN has a brand reputation that is only strenghtend by the vommunity and this indeed needs to change.

On the other hand, what has GAN made in their time? The cubes Feliks used in his prime before he got sponsored(kind of a bad move to Moyu, but whatever). The lightest of cubes. The first 3x3 that came with magnets from the factory. Corner-Core Magnets. MagLev. And more that I don't need to list. 
So there Pricetag is high, maybe a bis unjustified if you can see what other brands charge but not completely. When magnets were new, I destinctly remembet the WuQue costing 17€(20$ at that time) and the non-setup Cubicle Magnetic WuQue costing 45€. Because magnets were new, we haven't figured out the best practices and mass implementing them wasn't invented yet. Now, of course, magnets are cheap. And so will be a 3x3 with exactly the same features a GAN 13 has now in a couple years.
As for me, I can't relate to broke teens enough. I don't earn much as a farmer but enough that I bought Non-WCA Puzzles for 450€ in January after being suicidal again for a vouple months as a treat. So I do have bad judgement as well, but my last 3x3 purchase was a thunderclap and I can refrain from buying a new 3x3 ever since.
Feel free to argue with this post, the ones above me only lead to fighting.


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## the_chad (Sep 16, 2022)

be wise. those big companies are just exploiting our weaknesses. be aware that there will be another version soon after you buy the latest one.


Spoiler



the current state is as follows:
- youtubers recommend it
- sponsored cubers sometimes use it
- the packaging is nice
- it feels premium



it won't give you an advantage over $10 RS3M 2021. and both of them will last you for a lifetime.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 18, 2022)

Thom S. said:


> On the other hand, what has GAN made in their time? The cubes Feliks used in his prime before he got sponsored(kind of a bad move to Moyu, but whatever). The lightest of cubes. The first 3x3 that came with magnets from the factory. Corner-Core Magnets. MagLev. And more that I don't need to list.
> So there Pricetag is high, maybe a bis unjustified if you can see what other brands charge but not completely



Pretty sure I remember the RS3M and Meilong having Maglev before GAN. 

I'm sure GAN has innovated _some_ things but they seem to get credit for innovating _everything_. And I'm not sure that's deserved.


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## OreKehStrah (Sep 18, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> Pretty sure I remember the RS3M and Meilong having Maglev before GAN.
> 
> I'm sure GAN has innovated _some_ things but they seem to get credit for innovating _everything_. And I'm not sure that's deserved.


Very true. They were not the first with maglev, but I do think they had the best implementation. The other companies just slapped in 2 ring magnets and called it a day, while gan put them in a casing that holds them and keeps them at the same distances, which is quite nice as magnetic force does not scale linearly iirc.


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## the_chad (Sep 18, 2022)

I am pretty sure that Chris Tran is the one who invented MagLev system and magnetic cubes in general. He should get the credit for it. It was the greatest advance in hardware since 2011. The only company that really innovated was Dayan with Guhong design and Zhanchi' torpedoes. If you guys just want to buy Gan cubes then go ahead but please don't try to justify that decision by saying that they are the biggest innovator on the market. Because they don't. They are just slightly improving the design each time they release a new cube.


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## xyzzy (Sep 19, 2022)

the_chad said:


> and magnetic cubes in general


This part is false; Chris Tran was definitely not the first to publish when it came to putting magnets in cubes.

Afaict the magnetic cubes boom was sparked off by Qiyi's announcement of their magnetic clock in 2016, and even in that thread, you can already see prior art.


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## Thom S. (Sep 19, 2022)

xyzzy said:


> This part is false; Chris Tran was definitely not the first to publish when it came to putting magnets in cubes.
> 
> Afaict the magnetic cubes boom was sparked off by Qiyi's announcement of their magnetic clock in 2016, and even in that thread, you can already see prior art.


From what I remember, Chris was the first to Press-Fit magnets in the outside wall of the cubie in contrast to gluing them inside(which is only a good idea if you know about press-fit charts) and I believe they made the first magnetic something.
Magnetswere definitly a thing before but you could feel them come to be in 2016. That's when 3x3s, then 4x4s and I believe then Pyra had magnetic pro shop options available.


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## mencarikebenaran (Sep 19, 2022)

better spend my money for PS5 games and buy cheaper cube ....


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## Mikel (Sep 20, 2022)

I have never purchased a GAN cube. Their cubes just aren't that good compared to Moyu's.


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## codacube (Sep 20, 2022)

*TLDR: Inflation is HUGE issue and adding substantial costs to cube pricing*

Wow, lots of posts about GAN cube pricing, but considering:

Magnet cost inflation? Magnets are everywhere and in every product. "For example, a magnet that cost $1 in the first half of 2020 may now cost $2.50 to buy." source: https://sourcemagnets.com/control-cost-of-neodymium-magnets-for-product-development/
Plastic cost inflation? Same: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCU325211325211
Labor cost increases? Same...
Transportation from China to USA? Crazy, but finally coming down. The cost of a container transported from China to USA went from $1,500 to $20,016. (Currently $9,800ish). source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/one-price-dodging-inflation-china-to-u-s-shipping-rates-11655890200 
Overhead to provide speed cube shops some profit? Beats me, but I'm sure it adds up. 
All of these inflationary issues and more add *substantial *costs to cube pricing. All speed cube manufacturers and vendors have had to put up with profit pressures. 

Personally, I haven't been cubing long (or fast) enough know and understand this specific industry, but I do not see evidence of a monopoly where GAN could charge whatever they like. It "feels" like there is lots of competition amongst the different cube manufacturers to design, engineer, and produce products that push the envelop and make good speed cubers faster. If that competition didn't exist, then we would still be using rough and tough turning cubes of my early days. 

If you don't like the end user pricing, then a boycott by a substantial number of people may help lower the pricing. Another potential solution, if you like GAN cubes, is to purchase in bulk directly from GAN and remove one middle man and figure out how to distribute to your friends.  

Choice and competition are good. I trust we don't get to a point where, like Apple, producing a different color product is a new product. (I hope I didn't touch the third rail with that last comment.)

FYI - I haven't ordered the new GAN cubes.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 20, 2022)

you make good points. Shipping from China is extremely cheap though as it's subsidized by the Gov. 

It's kind of a scam but this isn't the forum to discuss such things. But they do not pay for shipping like we do. 

All the rest are valid points, especially plastic costs as plastic is an oil based product.


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 20, 2022)

codacube said:


> *TLDR: Inflation is HUGE issue and adding substantial costs to cube pricing*
> 
> Wow, lots of posts about GAN cube pricing, but considering:
> 
> ...


In regards to your inflation comment, in 2018 the X was $65, still almost 3 times everything else. So it's possible inflation has impacted it some, but even if it has the prices have always been high.


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## cirnov2 (Sep 20, 2022)

i could buy 4 of my mains for 84$.
I get it, inflation and crap, but 84 dollars man...
in comparaison you could buy:
84 cans of soda (a lot of soda)
a second hand gaming console.
a second hand gan 12 AND lube.
a mechanical keyboard


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## zzcuberman (Sep 20, 2022)

Yeh they are high. So what. Go get another cube. Don't be jealous someone can get one. Cubes don't make hardly any difference. Just keep practicing maties


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 20, 2022)

zzcuberman said:


> Yeh they are high. So what. Go get another cube. Don't be jealous someone can get one. Cubes don't make hardly any difference. Just keep practicing maties


I agree, however there is nothing wrong with trying to change something to give more people access to it.


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## LBr (Sep 20, 2022)

If the price increased from 78 to 84 then it could be inflation especially in the current climate. An increase from 65 to 78 is definitely not inflation and gan are to blame


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## Sion (Sep 20, 2022)

Eli Apperson said:


> I agree, however there is nothing wrong with trying to change something to give more people access to it.



Again, the most fundamental elements of GAN's current designs can be tracked for 3 generations, all the way back to the 11, and even then the XS is similar enough.

GAN is already quite accessible. I just see people getting frustrated that their newest most high-end flagship is not accessible itself. They have plenty of other products that are just as good performance-wise.

Folks, cube's aren't like phones where they stop updating after a certain point. Unless you go back to before 2017 with hardware age, you're honestly going to be fine with whatever cube you use. I don't think anyone will scold someone for using legacy GAN hardware unless they were the elitist gatekeeper type.

I think it sends a stronger message if people continued to buy older versions of the product instead of outright boycotting a company.

Again though, I personally have nothing against anyone who's willing to put money down to buy a GAN 13. I'm sure it performs well.


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## Garf (Sep 20, 2022)

The 11 m pro is now 55 dollars, compared to what is was before. The 12 m maglev is 72 and even the leap is 55 dollars now, same price as the 11 m pro. The non-flagships are going down in price, making them more accessible than the flagships.
I have a theory on this: when a new GAN cube is released, it is set to a higher price on purpose. Gan does this as a kind of a fundraiser for new products in the future. So I am guessing once GAN has earned enough money for a new project/puzzle, they will set the cube to a lower price.


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 20, 2022)

Garf said:


> The 11 m pro is now 55 dollars, compared to what is was before. The 12 m maglev is 72 and even the leap is 55 dollars now, same price as the 11 m pro. The non-flagships are going down in price, making them more accessible than the flagships.
> I have a theory on this: when a new GAN cube is released, it is set to a higher price on purpose. Gan does this as a kind of a fundraiser for new products in the future. So I am guessing once GAN has earned enough money for a new project/puzzle, they will set the cube to a lower price.


I think that's rather doubtful. I believe they set the price that high in the beginning because they know there is enough hype that people will pay for it, and as the demand dies down so will the price.


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## OreKehStrah (Sep 21, 2022)

Eli Apperson said:


> I think that's rather doubtful. I believe they set the price that high in the beginning because they know there is enough hype that people will pay for it, and as the demand dies down so will the price.


This. This is one of the fundamental things you will learn in a basic economics class lol. At release, the premium flagship model is released with a high price tag. Type A customers will purchase the cube at or soon after release. Type B customers will wait to for the price to drop or for a cheaper model to release. Type C will not buy the product (and probably complain about the price lol).


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## Triangles_are_cubers (Sep 21, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> Pretty sure I remember the RS3M and Meilong having Maglev before GAN.
> 
> I'm sure GAN has innovated _some_ things but they seem to get credit for innovating _everything_. And I'm not sure that's deserved.


please lmk where i can get or put maglev in a meilong i need it badly


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## A5 cuber skewb/square-1 (Sep 21, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> Pretty sure I remember the RS3M and Meilong having Maglev before GAN.
> 
> I'm sure GAN has innovated _some_ things but they seem to get credit for innovating _everything_. And I'm not sure that's deserved.


Its was the Weilong not Meilong


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## A5 cuber skewb/square-1 (Sep 21, 2022)

I mained the XS since December 2020 so i think i made the correct economic decision as it was cheaper but out of date.


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## Triangles_are_cubers (Sep 21, 2022)

A5 cuber skewb/square-1 said:


> Its was the Weilong not Meilong


i am in disappointment


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## mencarikebenaran (Sep 21, 2022)

i know its not easy to make a best cubes, but, to make a good game is al lot more harder than just making a cube, 
so thats why i will just buy a cheaper cube and dont need to waste my money for fking gan cube....


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 21, 2022)

cirnov2 said:


> i could buy 4 of my mains for 84$.
> I get it, inflation and crap, but 84 dollars man...
> in comparaison you could buy:
> 84 cans of soda (a lot of soda)
> ...


You could buy each of those for the price of a GAN 13

You could also buy...
4000 cans of soda
2 x Sony PS5's
2 x i5 Gaming Laptops
40 Gaming mechanical keyboards
22 GAN 13 Maglevs

Each for the price of a single new iPhone 14...


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## Super_Cuber903 (Sep 21, 2022)

codacube said:


> *TLDR: Inflation is HUGE issue and adding substantial costs to cube pricing*
> 
> Wow, lots of posts about GAN cube pricing, but considering:
> 
> ...


But it is the same thing for all brands, right? Gan is not an exception


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## Super_Cuber903 (Sep 21, 2022)

cirnov2 said:


> i could buy 4 of my mains for 84$.
> I get it, inflation and crap, but 84 dollars man...
> in comparaison you could buy:
> 84 cans of soda (a lot of soda)
> ...


I want 84 cans of soda. My 7 dollar main 3x3 performs better than my friends 20$ gan


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## Imsoosm (Sep 21, 2022)

Gan is starting to become like Apple though... Each new Apple phone is adding less and less new and useful things, instead doing stuff like changing the camera positions and adding some other useless stuff. Of course, there would be less and less for them to add, because we might already reached a plateau with the technology and ideas we have now. Iphones are very expensive, but there are still people who buy it because they like it. There's really not a big point in buying it, however. I've been using my iPhone 7 for the past few years with no problem. Sure, there might be some stuff that I can't do on the 7 but I can do on the 14, but again, these things aren't _necessary. _You can survive without them.

Now, back to Gan, I think they just want to release a flagship every year. They aren't adding a lot of new stuff with each upgrade, though. Yeah, the Gan 13 has some little parts that were added/upgraded into a better version than the Gan 12, but in reality it's basically the same cube. Imo the most revolutionary change was the Gan 11, and that is a pretty good cube, but the Gan 12 and the Gan 13 are basically Gan 11s with some small upgrades and more magnets. There are many cheaper cubes that perform as well or even better for some people. But what new cubers think is that "Oh, top cubers use this cube, and they say it's good, it'll probably speed me up 10 seconds". Dang, they get sponsored, would they say the cube is bad? But my point is that you shouldn't be spending $80 on some plastic and magnets. Gan cubes are double or triple the price of Qiyi and Moyu flagships, but the Qiyi and Moyu flagships perform just as well.

Just a few weeks ago one of my friends asked me about which cube to buy. He says I use Gan 12 so should he buy that (I actually got my Gan 12 for free, don't ask)? I told him absolutely not. 1) As I've said, you shouldn't spend that much money on some plastic and magnets; 2) his mom definitely wouldn't let him buy it. Instead I recommended the upcoming Tornado V3. (it took him and his brother 2 weeks to convince their mom to buy the V3)

Anyway, I just think Gan doesn't have too much innovation with the recent releases... just like the example I made with Apple, Gan might be reaching its plateau. There are only so many things you can add on to a cube. Instead of making a 3x3 flagship every year they should improve on some of their other products, like their 4x4 and megaminx.

This is just all my opinion. If you want to buy Gan cubes, sure. Gan has very good cubes, but I don't like their pricing. I'm not going to buy a Gan cube for a long time (maybe forever), unless they drop their prices by a margin.


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## Super_Cuber903 (Sep 21, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> Gan is starting to become like Apple though... Each new Apple phone is adding less and less new and useful things, instead doing stuff like changing the camera positions and adding some other useless stuff. Of course, there would be less and less for them to add, because we might already reached a plateau with the technology and ideas we have now. Iphones are very expensive, but there are still people who buy it because they like it. There's really not a big point in buying it, however. I've been using my iPhone 7 for the past few years with no problem. Sure, there might be some stuff that I can't do on the 7 but I can do on the 14, but again, these things aren't _necessary. _You can survive without them.
> 
> Now, back to Gan, I think they just want to release a flagship every year. They aren't adding a lot of new stuff with each upgrade, though. Yeah, the Gan 13 has some little parts that were added/upgraded into a better version than the Gan 12, but in reality it's basically the same cube. Imo the most revolutionary change was the Gan 11, and that is a pretty good cube, but the Gan 12 and the Gan 13 are basically Gan 11s with some small upgrades and more magnets. There are many cheaper cubes that perform as well or even better for some people. But what new cubers think is that "Oh, top cubers use this cube, and they say it's good, it'll probably speed me up 10 seconds". Dang, they get sponsored, would they say the cube is bad? But my point is that you shouldn't be spending $80 on some plastic and magnets. Gan cubes are double or triple the price of Qiyi and Moyu flagships, but the Qiyi and Moyu flagships perform just as well.
> 
> ...


Exactly, I perform better on my ylm compared to my friend's gan. 
Ps. How did you get the gan 12 for free? I may want to get a qiyi clock for free


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## mencarikebenaran (Sep 21, 2022)

for me with salary 300 usd per month, gan cube is way too expensive, that is my reason.


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## baseballjello67 (Sep 22, 2022)

I have an iPhone 8 that I got second-hand from my mom, who bought it when it was released. Perfect condition, no problems whatsoever.
Just like that, it's not like Feliks, Max, or Tymon couldn't just use a 2018-2019 cube and get nearly the same times. I don't recommend buying the 13, but I don't think others should tell others if they should or shouldn't buy it. I do think you should buy the Tornado v3


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## DynaXT (Sep 22, 2022)

baseballjello67 said:


> I don't recommend buying the 13, but I don't think you should buy it.


What? Those mean the same thing though?


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## NONOGamer12 (Sep 22, 2022)

BenChristman1 said:


> Hey everyone. Following the release of the Gan 13, I think that something needs to be done to keep these ever-increasing prices in check. The Gan 13 Maglev UV just dropped at 83.99 USD. In my mind, this is absolutely not okay.
> 
> We need to stop buying Gan cubes. I have been doing this since the release of the Gan 356 X, and I encourage you all to do it too. I understand that all the propaganda that Gan puts out may be tempting. I know that some collectors will want to add to their collection. I encourage you to refrain. I know that the fastest speedcubers in this community think it will make you faster. Even people my speed and slower think that it’ll make them faster. This is not true. There are plenty of cubes that arguably perform better than Gan cubes for about 25% of the price. (Weilong WR M 2021, Tornado v2, etc.) If you are my speed (to be blunt), your cube is not the problem (unless you’re using a very bad cube, in which case, please consider purchasing one of the cubes I mentioned above), your skill level is.
> 
> ...


I only have one gan but instead of getting the gan 11 m duo i got a wrm


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## mencarikebenaran (Sep 22, 2022)

want to get GAN cube ?
the best way :
1. solve 3x3 really fast
2. win many comp
and then u will get sponsored.
because the gan cube is fking fking expensive


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2022)

Imsoosm said:


> Now, back to Gan, I think they just want to release a flagship every year. They aren't adding a lot of new stuff with each upgrade, though. Yeah, the Gan 13 has some little parts that were added/upgraded into a better version than the Gan 12, but in reality it's basically the same cube. Imo the most revolutionary change was the Gan 11, and that is a pretty good cube, but the Gan 12 and the Gan 13 are basically Gan 11s with some small upgrades and more magnets. There are many cheaper cubes that perform as well or even better for some people. But what new cubers think is that "Oh, top cubers use this cube, and they say it's good, it'll probably speed me up 10 seconds". Dang, they get sponsored, would they say the cube is bad? But my point is that you shouldn't be spending $80 on some plastic and magnets. Gan cubes are double or triple the price of Qiyi and Moyu flagships, but the Qiyi and Moyu flagships perform just as well.


Compared to the innovation of the other cube manufacturers you mean ? oh wait ... remind me what changed between the Moyu WRM 2020 and 2021 ? or the last 2 versions of the RS3M. 


Imsoosm said:


> Anyway, I just think Gan doesn't have too much innovation with the recent releases... just like the example I made with Apple, Gan might be reaching its plateau. There are only so many things you can add on to a cube. Instead of making a 3x3 flagship every year they should improve on some of their other products, like their 4x4 and megaminx.
> 
> This is just all my opinion. If you want to buy Gan cubes, sure. Gan has very good cubes, but I don't like their pricing. I'm not going to buy a Gan cube for a long time (maybe forever), unless they drop their prices by a margin.


GAN have changed each iteration of the flagship cube more so than any other manufacturer. Sure, complain about the price. But to use lack of innovation as an anti-GAN argument just doesn't cut it.

What would you like to see added to the cube of tomorrow ?


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## the_chad (Sep 22, 2022)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Compared to the innovation of the other cube manufacturers you mean ? oh wait ... remind me what changed between the Moyu WRM 2020 and 2021 ? or the last 2 versions of the RS3M.
> 
> GAN have changed each iteration of the flagship cube more so than any other manufacturer. Sure, complain about the price. But to use lack of innovation as an anti-GAN argument just doesn't cut it.
> 
> What would you like to see added to the cube of tomorrow ?



What innovation?


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2022)

the_chad said:


> What innovation?


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2022)

the_chad said:


> What innovation?


GAN 11 added corner core magnets, added corner magnet adjustment
GAN 12 changed the corner core magnets system, changed tensioning system.
GAN 13 changed corner core magnet system, changed tensioning system, added edge repelling magnets

Probably cannot be described as true innovations, however they are changes in design which requires a lot of R&D. 

So what innovations have the other cube manufacturers come up with in the last 3 years ? Moyu added maglev as have most. As I said previously you can bash on GAN about the price of their cubes, but to ask what are they innovating as an argument is just off. You can say the same thing about all cube manufacturers in that case so your argument is moot.


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## LBr (Sep 22, 2022)

JohnnyReggae said:


>


Arguably the tornado v3 has added more things even if they may no longer be considered as cutting edge technology


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## hyn (Sep 22, 2022)

JohnnyReggae said:


> GAN 11 added corner core magnets, added corner magnet adjustment
> GAN 12 changed the corner core magnets system, changed tensioning system.
> GAN 13 changed corner core magnet system, changed tensioning system, added edge repelling magnets
> 
> ...


Are you replying to @the_chad or @Imsoosm ?


JohnnyReggae said:


> your argument is moot.


Because ^^ seems a bit far for just a question

If ur replying to @Imsoosm , then 


JohnnyReggae said:


> You can say the same thing about all cube manufacturers


is not a valid argument as his contention was that $80 for a cube is simply not worth it and there is no pressing reason for the purchases of such. Moreover, I believe most people purchase goods based on the performance, rather than innovation. Not many people care about anything but the end result (including me). Like who cares about how many adjustment levels for magnets or tension there are when its not the first few minutes of getting a new cube? 
It requires a lot of R&D? Damn, guess I have to fork out 3 or 4 more RS3Ms for that
ok fine sorry for the ad hominem


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## Triangles_are_cubers (Sep 22, 2022)

tbh bro id love it if dayan makes a maglev tengyun jus me tho
also tbh i think gan cubes are slightly overpriced, just not as much as people claim it to be. every gan cube seems to just be a few steps ahead of the rest, and while yes there are other cube manufacturers making same high quality features for slightly cheaper, the gan cubes always just feel premium. sure, they can reduce packaging to reduce price, but the packaging makes the first impression of the cube memorable, and tbh if i was to shell out 80 dollars on a cube i sure want it to be atleast memorable and great, which gan cubes fall in both categories.


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## the_chad (Sep 22, 2022)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Probably cannot be described as true innovations, however they are changes in design which requires a lot of R&D.



Very much true. Those are not innovations.


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 22, 2022)

JohnnyReggae said:


> Compared to the innovation of the other cube manufacturers you mean ? oh wait ... remind me what changed between the Moyu WRM 2020 and 2021 ?


Adjustable magnets, primary internals, maglev.


JohnnyReggae said:


> or the last 2 versions of the RS3M.


moyu was called out for this as they should have been. But the difference is, the rs3s are a $10 and $14 cube, not a $75 and $80 cube.


JohnnyReggae said:


> GAN have changed each iteration of the flagship cube more so than any other manufacturer. Sure, complain about the price. But to use lack of innovation as an anti-GAN argument just doesn't cut it.


Agreed, they are adding a lot of new things. But are the new things they're adding really even adding much to the cubes?


JohnnyReggae said:


> What would you like to see added to the cube of tomorrow ?


I don't think anything needs to be added. Cubes are getting more and more complicated, with not much performance change. I'd rather see companies focus on less optimized hardware then continually putting out new flagships that aren't significantly different.


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## F'prime (Sep 22, 2022)

Tbh i actually wanted a GAN 356 M, but its everyone's choice if they love or hate GAN.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2022)

hyn said:


> is not a valid argument as his contention was that $80 for a cube is simply not worth it and there is no pressing reason for the purchases of such. Moreover, I believe most people purchase goods based on the performance, rather than innovation. Not many people care about anything but the end result (including me). Like who cares about how many adjustment levels for magnets or tension there are when its not the first few minutes of getting a new cube?
> It requires a lot of R&D? Damn, guess I have to fork out 3 or 4 more RS3Ms for that
> ok fine sorry for the ad hominem


My point was that using innovation as an argument is moot, so calling GAN out for that it out of line.

You can complain all you like about the price. It's the same argument of an iPhone vs an Android phone that will do everything you need at a fraction of the cost. Do you need an iPhone, certainly not. Would you like an iPhone, probably. Will Apple charge less for their iPhone because you don't like the price and whine about it, no.

Just like the iPhone there are people that are prepared to pay the premium price for GAN cubes. Get over it, and move on. Because you cannot justify spending that amount of money on a cube, don't. That's it done. I'm not going to go running about on cell phone forums whining about the price of an iPhone because I cannot justify the spend.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2022)

the_chad said:


> Very much true. Those are not innovations.


Want to list the innovations the other cube manufacturers have done ?


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 22, 2022)

RS3M and Mielong WRM 2021 both came out with Maglev before GAN


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2022)

Eli Apperson said:


> I don't think anything needs to be added. Cubes are getting more and more complicated, with not much performance change. I'd rather see companies focus on less optimized hardware then continually putting out new flagships that aren't significantly different.


All manufacturers have done the same when releasing new flagships, it's not just a GAN thing.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> RS3M and Mielong WRM 2021 both came out with Maglev before GAN


That may be but Moyu didn't innovate that, and you can put money on the fact that GAN had been looking at it for a while before as well. All the manufacturers were.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 22, 2022)

your question was _"Want to list the innovations the other cube manufacturers have done ?"_

the answer was Moyu had maglev first.

It doesn't seem like GAN is the Leader In Innovation,.. they're just another cube company doing their thing. There are lots of cube companies doing interesting things. GAN has great marketing and packaging and sells itself as a 'Premium Cube.'

More power to them. I probably have 20+ GAN cubes. They're great. But I have a ton of cubes from Moyu and DaYan that are also great.


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## zzcuberman (Sep 22, 2022)

The difference between Gan and all the super low cost cubes is they probably actually pay their workers.


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## cuberswoop (Sep 22, 2022)

zzcuberman said:


> The difference between Gan and all the super low cost cubes is they probably actually pay their workers.


You forget that Gan is a Chinese company.


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## zzcuberman (Sep 22, 2022)

cuberswoop said:


> You forget that Gan is a Chinese company.


Not all company's run sweat shops. Also just think that the cubicle or whoever has to make money too.


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## JohnnyReggae (Sep 22, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> your question was _"Want to list the innovations the other cube manufacturers have done ?"_
> 
> the answer was Moyu had maglev first.
> 
> ...


Moyu were the first to have factory installed maglev. They were certainly not the innovators of that technology.






And I believe that someone else had spoken about magnetic levitation even before that. Also funny how Chris Trans's 1st prototype model is a GAN  

GAN is just like every other cube manufacturer doing their thing. They have always priced themselves as "Premium" and have sponsored the right people to help their marketing push. They have definitely succeeded in the market. From a pure business perspective I have to admire what they have done and achieved in that market.

Most of the cube manufacturers have produced good/great cubes. People are so diverse as are their tastes and preferences that there will be a cube that you will like that you are also satisfied with the price paid for that cube. Each to their own.

I still believe that GAN are doing more with each new cube than the other manufacturers are doing with theirs. And just to clarify I don't mean as a comparison between different manufacturers, but in how each iteration of their own flagship cube changes.


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## jawklqnn (Sep 22, 2022)

Triangles_are_cubers said:


> i am in disappointment


it’s not too hard to maglev mod a cube, just buy magnets for the rs3m, it should work the same


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 22, 2022)

I kid I kid,.... sort of


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## Sion (Sep 22, 2022)

Moyu was the first to include true mechanical spring compression in the GTS3. Moyu was also the first to incorporate true mechanical magnet adjustment in the EDM.

Yj was the first to include a twisting magnetic element in the Elite. 

The Shengshou Gem was also the first to include a stickerless capped design. 

These are a lot of the things GAN has eventually built upon, but weren't necessarily initially conceived by them. I wouldn't call them copycats for it because even then, they all have unique twists that make them function differently to their original counterparts in some way.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 22, 2022)

DianSheng over in the corner like...


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## Eli Apperson (Sep 22, 2022)

I think this thread needs to die, nobody's mind will be changed, and it's quickly becoming a "which company is the best" thread. Though it would be nice if enough people would boycott gan so they'd lower their prices, people aren't willing to sacrifice not getting the newest cube, so I guess that's not happening.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 22, 2022)

it's been a fun thread. It's always nice when people are conversating (with civility). 

It's fun discussing cubes, cubing, and the community and cube companies.


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## Manxkiwi (Sep 22, 2022)

Just think how lucky we are these days, to have so many companies producing so many great cubes across all price ranges.
People of a certain age remember there being (basically) only one or two choices, which, by today's standards were pretty (very) poor.
We are currently in a fantastic age of cube hardware..


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 29, 2022)

cuberswoop said:


> You forget that Gan is a Chinese company.



what cubing company _isn't_ a Chinese company?

Honest question? I know V-Cube is Greek,.. but every other cube seems to be made in China.


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## xyzzy (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> what cubing company _isn't_ a Chinese company?
> 
> Honest question? I know V-Cube is Greek,.. but every other cube seems to be made in China.


Depending on your geopolitical stance, Maru might count (as a Taiwanese company).


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 29, 2022)

Does it though?


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 29, 2022)

_"Taiwan, officially the Republic of China,"_









Taiwan - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





so,... all cubing companies seem to be Chinese,.. except V-Cube. And I've never seen a speedcuber cite V-Cube as any kind of viable option.

Though I like V-Cube and think they're chunky like a Rubiks, it's definitely not a speedcube by any stretch of the imagination.

So China dominates the cube market. Flat out.


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## zzcuberman (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> _"Taiwan, officially the Republic of China,"_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


V cubes used to dominate big cubes along with shengshou


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## cuberswoop (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> _"Taiwan, officially the Republic of China,"_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Taiwan is regarded as its own country by almost everyone who has done their research because China pulled a... well... China, and says they're part of China. Taiwan is also the Republic Of China (good but not really), and China is the People's Republic of China (for the most part, the Republic of China still claims China(if you ever see a people's republic they're communist)). Taiwan has never been a part of the Chinese communist party, in fact, they were a Dutch territory. You also have to consider how China has done the same thing to Russia, Japan, North and South Korea, The Philippines, Bhutan, Indonesia, ext. Basically everyone in their territory, and you have to keep in mind that they didn't even have land in some of these countries.

To summarize, Maru is a Taiwanese brand.


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## Thom S. (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> "Taiwan, officially the Republic of China,"


How to slap an entire nation across the face.

VCubes. You have to remember except for the VCube 8 and 9, which are from 2015 and 2018 (big question mark but I aint gonna look it up) and the VCube 3, which is just a Dayan with extra controvercy, all designs for the VCubes are from Verdes' imagination of how (big)cubes are to be designed.
The design could be as young as 2013 or as old as 1990, so it's not fair to compare them with today's market.
When the 6 and 7 came out, there was no other physical cube of that size. You had to use a VCube.
When the 4 and 5 came out, there were only a few options, mostly even worse. Rubiks, Eastsheen, Maru(I think the small 4x4 was out by then). The first Shengshou big cubes were basically VCubes with actual quality control and slightly less interference moulded in.
If you take it one step further, in 2018, when Shenshou released the Gen7 big cubes, they were actually mained by some. Verdes mechanism with ridges was used until 2018-2019.

We are essentially talking about plastic pieces and a lot of human time needed for assembly relative to the price paid. 
Of course china will have the edge in the market, as with just about all other plastic goods.


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## Kaiju_cube (Sep 29, 2022)

I'm just quoting the Wikipedia article I linked to. 

Worrying whether they are or are not China is above my pay-grade and moral convictions. Whether they are or are not does not affect my life in the slightest. 

Wiki says they're The Republic of China, that's what I quoted. 

So again, all the good Cubing companies appear to be Chinese. They have no competition in the world of Cubing.


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## Abram Grimsley (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaiju_cube said:


> I'm just quoting the Wikipedia article I linked to.
> 
> Worrying whether they are or are not China is above my pay-grade and moral convictions. Whether they are or are not does not affect my life in the slightest.
> 
> ...


Dude, everyone knows the wiki is an unreliable source! Lol


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