# Should speedcubing community have their own timers?



## AlexCube (Dec 23, 2013)

Hello guys! I was thinking (as the title says) should speedcubing community have their own timers? I know that the speedstack timers are good but aren't we just helping them? Post your opinions to poll and comments below!


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## Tim Major (Dec 23, 2013)

Speedstacks taking our money? How would that be different from some other company?


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## Kirjava (Dec 23, 2013)

AlexCube said:


> Aren't speedstacks taking our money? I know that the speedstack timers are good but aren't we just helping them?



Why shouldn't we help them ... ?


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## DrKorbin (Dec 23, 2013)

Of course we should have our own timers! No more 10 minutes limit!

... Now please make timers, will you?


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## AlexCube (Dec 23, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> Why shouldn't we help them ... ?


Well... I don't know but own timers would be cool


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## BillyRain (Dec 23, 2013)

Although SpeedStacks timers have no problem forfilling our needs, I think it would be nice to have timers and mats designed specifically for cubing. 

But if any company were to look at designing something, I would hope that they would seek advice from experienced cubers and the WCA first.


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## AlexCube (Dec 23, 2013)

DrKorbin said:


> Of course we should have our own timers! No more 10 minutes limit!
> 
> ... Now please make timers, will you?


I don't think that I am that much electrician but I could suggest that 



BillyRain said:


> Although SpeedStacks timers have no problem forfilling our needs, I think it would be nice to have timers and mats designed specifically for cubing.
> 
> But if any company were to look at designing something, I would hope that they would seek advice from experienced cubers and the WCA first.


I agree


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## AmazingCuber (Dec 23, 2013)

Cubing timers would be awesome, but probably doesn't offer enough revenue. Our best bet is for speed stacks to make a timer for cubing, as they already have the technology.


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## Kirjava (Dec 23, 2013)

AmazingCuber said:


> they already have the technology.



a lot of people have the technology, it's not rocket surgery


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## AmazingCuber (Dec 23, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> a lot of people have the technology, it's not rocket surgery



or more of the facilities/they already produce similar things


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## Ruben (Dec 24, 2013)

defintely! timers with more feature built in such as the WCA 15 sec inspection time, +2 penalty option. or maybe be generate some practice scrambles. Also, more customization features like colors, size, etc


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## Coolster01 (Dec 24, 2013)

Yeah, the judge could press a button to start inspection at the same time they lift up cover, which initiates countdown. The timer can tell EXACTLY how long it is just like timer apps. That would be a nice feature!


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## uberCuber (Dec 24, 2013)

Kirjava said:


> rocket surgery



sounds painful


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## giorgi (Dec 24, 2013)

yeah sure we have to have our timers, but QJ timers are rubbish


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## Clarkeeyyy (Dec 24, 2013)

I think having additional options such as inspection time is a viable reason for new timers, however, the indication of how much inspection time is remaining has been discussed before and could be an issue. Nobody wants to look away from the puzzle just to check how much time they have left to inspect. If a good method of measuring inspection time on the timers could be developed then it would remove any uncertainties and controversies, like Chris Olson's 2x2 wr average.


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## Ruben (Dec 24, 2013)

At the very least, a timer that says "SPEED CUBING" OR "SPEED SOLVING", something like that instead of "SPEED STACKS". Another cool customization feature, which can apply to any timer, would be the ability to engrave, write, or display custom text, like our name or pb.


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## tjp8153 (Dec 25, 2013)

You could just have the timer beep at 8 and 12 seconds and then it wouldnt be much different than a judge with a stop watch. I think it is a good idea.


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## Clarkeeyyy (Dec 25, 2013)

tjp8153 said:


> You could just have the timer beep at 8 and 12 seconds and then it wouldnt be much different than a judge with a stop watch. I think it is a good idea.



This might work, but what if you heard the beep from a timer within close proximity that isn't your own and mistook it for your own?


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## AlexMaass (Dec 25, 2013)

Maybe a LED light could do that instead?


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## Ruben (Dec 25, 2013)

AlexMaass said:


> Maybe a LED light could do that instead?



no, that wouldnt work because we're inspecting the cube, not keeping an eye on the timer. thats why we need an audible warning.


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## Me (Dec 25, 2013)

Ruben said:


> defintely! timers with more feature built in such as the WCA 15 sec inspection time, +2 penalty option. or maybe be generate some practice scrambles. Also, more customization features like colors, size, etc



We're getting out of scope here. This comic comes to mind. The reason the speed stacks timer works well and has worked for such a long time is because it's general purpose, it's nothing but a timer with a display port in a portable -durable- form factor. Instead of coming up with something totally new and specific to the current WCA regulations, ask what can be immediately improved about the current timer?
e.g. 
- full range of times
- the entire touch pads are capacitive not just the inner area
- grippier rubber feet



Clarkeeyyy said:


> Nobody wants to look away from the puzzle just to check how much time they have left to inspect...


A Google Glass app/plugin and you take them off before solving. Google Glasses for all the competitors! /s


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## TimMc (Dec 25, 2013)

Who is "*we*"?

Are there enough members in the community to pay for a short production run of 10,000 timers? Will the community grow enough to justify producing a second batch of timers?

How much money needs to be spent on research and development to produce new timers? Is this greater than the cost of one production run?

Tim.


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## Logical101 (Dec 25, 2013)

it could say our name when its 8 & 12 seconds


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## Michael Womack (Dec 25, 2013)

BillyRain said:


> Although SpeedStacks timers have no problem forfilling our needs, I think it would be nice to have timers and mats designed specifically for cubing.
> 
> But if any company were to look at designing something, I would hope that they would seek advice from experienced cubers and the WCA first.



I do have a Pic of a timer that is from Speedstacks that is a Cubing exclusive timer.



Spoiler: Timer



http://michael123425.deviantart.com/art/cube-timer-396907537?q=gallery%3Amichael123425%2F27991109&qo=7


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## Logical101 (Dec 25, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> I do have a Pic of a timer that is from Speedstacks that is a Cubing exclusive timer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



but why that design


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## Michael Womack (Dec 25, 2013)

Logical101 said:


> but why that design



I don't know I wasn't there when they designed it.


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## Goosly (Dec 25, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> I do have a Pic of a timer that is from Speedstacks that is a Cubing exclusive timer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That design is worse than the one we currently use, since stopping the timer would take more time, especially for people who don't solve their cube above the table, but rather on their lap.


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## AlexCube (Dec 25, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> I do have a Pic of a timer that is from Speedstacks that is a Cubing exclusive timer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Although I like how the time is displayed why would you have to put your hands so far?


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## Stefan (Dec 25, 2013)

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?38213-Timing-Equipment-New-Ideas


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## ~Adam~ (Dec 25, 2013)

Clarkeeyyy said:


> This might work, but what if you heard the beep from a timer within close proximity that isn't your own and mistook it for your own?



Surely there would be very little difference between hearing a different timer beeping or another judge warning at 8 and 12.

I think most people would know when the beep should be coming.
Also, practicing with a speedcubin' timer could potential help you use your inspection time better because you are being warned.


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## Jaysammey777 (Dec 25, 2013)

QJ... But it sucked


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## Coolster01 (Dec 25, 2013)

Jaysammey777 said:


> QJ... But it sucked



...and sucked again
...and again. (3 versions)


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## Jaysammey777 (Dec 25, 2013)

Coolster01 said:


> ...and sucked again
> ...and again. (3 versions)



The first speedstack stackmat sucked just as much, they improved their design(Gen II), then made it worse(Gen III) (IMO).


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## Stefan (Dec 25, 2013)

Jaysammey777 said:


> The first speedstack stackmat sucked just as much



How?


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## Jaysammey777 (Dec 25, 2013)

Stefan said:


> How?



The First gen and the QJ had the same problems and broke in the same way


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## Stefan (Dec 25, 2013)

Jaysammey777 said:


> The First gen and the QJ had the same problems and broke in the same way



That doesn't tell me anything about how it sucked (and I don't think it did).


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## Coolster01 (Dec 25, 2013)

Stefan said:


> That doesn't tell me anything about how it sucked (and I don't think it did).



Inaccuracy? idk if you mean the legit v1 where the timer was the mat (which had severe inaccuracy), or the v1 without the save buttons.


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## Stefan (Dec 25, 2013)

Coolster01 said:


> Inaccuracy? idk if you mean the legit v1 where the timer was the mat (which had severe inaccuracy), or the v1 without the save buttons.



What severe inaccuracy?

I'm confused by your descriptions "timer was the mat" and "without save buttons" cause you make it sound like that's two different ones. There is only one first gen stackmat, and it fits *both* of those descriptions:


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## Michael Womack (Dec 26, 2013)

Stefan said:


> What severe inaccuracy?
> 
> I'm confused by your descriptions "timer was the mat" and "without save buttons" cause you make it sound like that's two different ones. There is only one first gen stackmat, and it fits *both* of those descriptions:



Most of the Cubers today think of the V1 Stackmat timer that looks allot like the QJ V1 timer and not the mat with the built in timer cause most of us weren't cubing in 2003 when WCA started.


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## Logical101 (Dec 26, 2013)

Stefan said:


> What severe inaccuracy?
> 
> I'm confused by your descriptions "timer was the mat" and "without save buttons" cause you make it sound like that's two different ones. There is only one first gen stackmat, and it fits *both* of those descriptions:



looks prety good


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## Coolster01 (Dec 26, 2013)

Stefan said:


> What severe inaccuracy?
> 
> I'm confused by your descriptions "timer was the mat" and "without save buttons" cause you make it sound like that's two different ones. There is only one first gen stackmat, and it fits *both* of those descriptions:
> 
> <image>



Speedstackers have said that the one in the image shown was inaccurate. idk?

There's this, though:



that's not the v2, the one with buttons. I have all 3 (actually, I accidentally took the "v1" from somebody at MIT 2011).


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## rj (Dec 26, 2013)

QJs are awesome. I just got one for christmas.


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## kcl (Dec 26, 2013)

rj said:


> QJs are awesome. I just got one for christmas.



Wouldn't call them awesome haha. They are suitable.. Sometimes.


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## SweetSolver (Dec 26, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> Wouldn't call them awesome haha. They are suitable.. Sometimes.



I hate mine 

I have a black v2, it's just so unreliable. Too many issues with it imo. I don't know about the v3 though.


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## kcl (Dec 26, 2013)

SweetSolver said:


> I hate mine
> 
> I have a black v2, it's just so unreliable. Too many issues with it imo. I don't know about the v3 though.



Lol I hear most suck and some are just like a speed stacks timer.


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## Stefan (Dec 26, 2013)

Coolster01 said:


> Speedstackers have said that the one in the image shown was inaccurate. idk?



Then I'd rather hear from someone who actually knows something than from someone who says "severe inaccuracy" but doesn't really know anything.


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## ThomasJE (Dec 26, 2013)

Going back to Womack's design, if the timer could be put at the front *or* the back of the mat, then it could be changed to the solver's preference. I also like the display at the back of the timer; it means that those expensive displays wouldn't be needed for smaller competitions, but there should also be a data port so displays can be used for larger competitions like Worlds, Nats and Euros. The reset and power buttons are in the middle as well.

The only nit-pick I have is that it has a save feature, and with the sheer amount of puzzles that are solved, it would be infeasible.

That idea is the best so far, and I think we should continue with improving that design. Speedstacks may even produce it for us...


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## rj (Dec 26, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Going back to Womack's design, if the timer could be put at the front *or* the back of the mat, then it could be changed to the solver's preference. I also like the display at the back of the timer; it means that those expensive displays wouldn't be needed for smaller competitions, but there should also be a data port so displays can be used for larger competitions like Worlds, Nats and Euros. The reset and power buttons are in the middle as well.
> 
> The only nit-pick I have is that it has a save feature, and with the sheer amount of puzzles that are solved, it would be infeasible.
> 
> That idea is the best so far, and I think we should continue with improving that design. Speedstacks may even produce it for us...



It could have bluetooth to transfer times to your computer.


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## ThomasJE (Dec 26, 2013)

rj said:


> It could have bluetooth to transfer times to your computer.



I don't think that's needed. The paper and pen method works fine; and I think bluetooth connectivity would send the prices sky high and also dramatically decrease the batter life.

All we're after is a new timer, not a new system.


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## rj (Dec 26, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> I don't think that's needed. The paper and pen method works fine; and I think bluetooth connectivity would send the prices sky high and also dramatically decrease the batter life.
> 
> All we're after is a new timer, not a new system.


True. How 'bout a rechargable battery with mini usb for charging and displays and prisma?


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## ThomasJE (Dec 26, 2013)

rj said:


> True. How 'bout a rechargable battery with mini usb for charging and displays and prisma?



Maybe... But if we have a data port, then we would just use that. But USB charging would be useful; especially at competitions when there usually isn't a shortage of computers to charge them, or even a USB hub.

But we don't want to re-invent the wheel; let's be absolutely sure about that.

Hang on... Am I the only person who has only just noticed the Speedstacks design has 6 digits? Could they be planning timing above 10 minutes?


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## rj (Dec 26, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Hang on... Am I the only person who has only just noticed the Speedstacks design has 6 digits? Could they be planning timing above 10 minutes?


I hope!
I noticed too.


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## Michael Womack (Dec 26, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> Hang on... Am I the only person who has only just noticed the Speedstacks design has 6 digits? Could they be planning timing above 10 minutes?



Or maybe its there just so that demo thing. Allot of digital clocks come with a sticker that cover over the display and shows a random time.


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## Ruben (Dec 29, 2013)

at the very least. it should display the stats such as ao3/5/12/50/100 and session average. plus save our pb.


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## ThomasJE (Dec 29, 2013)

Ruben said:


> at the very least. it should display the stats such as ao3/5/12/50/100 and session average. plus save our pb.



I don't think it should. We have computer programs for that. And we can import times anyway.


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## AmazingCuber (Dec 29, 2013)

ThomasJE said:


> I don't think it should. We have computer programs for that. And we can import times anyway.



Yes, we don't need that. Too many functions dont really work with the concept. The current timer isn't bad, we don't need to reinvent it. Some small changes to adjust it to speedcubing should do.


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