# Why did I get a +2?



## nalralz (May 12, 2015)

On my first solve at the Minnesota Cube Melt I had a 16.08 and I got a +2 because my fingers were too close to the cube and they said that I would get a warning if I did and I didn't get one. The average would have been 16.05 but it was 16.72. Have this happened to other people or is this a new thing? (Just wondering. I'm not mad or anything)


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## mitch1234 (May 12, 2015)

Contact the delegate, not us.


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## natezach728 (May 12, 2015)

I'm not sure what you mean. You mean when you started the timer? They probably thought you were touching the cube, not sure. BTW, I responded to your PM about the Guhong, Witlong, etc. Take a look!


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## Kit Clement (May 12, 2015)

Regulations don't give warnings, and it's the competitor's responsibility to know them. If I recall correctly, Shaden said during the presentation that warnings may be given to first-timers, but you had been to several competitions before. As I said, it's not exactly within regulations to give warnings, but I feel that it's within the spirit of the WCA to give a warning to someone who is doing this for the first time.

Also, it's not about how close your hands are to the cube, it's that you must use fingers to start the timer -- I was your judge, and you had all palms on your timer. Sorry if you haven't been caught doing this before, I haven't been the judge for you yet.


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## biscuit (May 12, 2015)

> Sorry if you haven't been caught doing this before, I haven't been the judge for you yet.



lol. Kit's that one judge who knows the regs well enough to give you a +16 (or 18? I'm not sure)


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## supercavitation (May 12, 2015)

biscuit said:


> lol. Kit's that one judge who knows the regs well enough to give you a +16 (or 18? I'm not sure)



+14.


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## biscuit (May 12, 2015)

supercavitation said:


> +14.



ehh close enough


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## Kit Clement (May 12, 2015)

On any puzzle but Clock, +16 is possible. Things to do to avoid any +2s:

Pre-attempt:
- Fingers on stackmat
- No contact with puzzle
- Puzzle is not on top of stackmat
- Less than 15 second inspection time

Post-attempt:
- No puzzle misalignment
- Fully releasing the puzzle before stopping the timer
- Not touching the puzzle after the attempt, before judge can inspect
- Using the palm side of your hand to stop the timer


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## Tim Major (May 12, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> - Not touching the puzzle after the attempt, before judge can inspect



I would've assumed if enforcing this it would be a DNF. If the judge hasn't inspected it, couldn't the competitor do the last 2/3 moves needed to solve it? Seems like a strange regulation to give +2 for. And are you saying that if it's say, 46 degrees so just past but requires closer inspection, the competitor picking it up before the judge makes the decision would result in +4, rather than +2?


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## Dene (May 12, 2015)

nalralz said:


> On my first solve at the Minnesota Cube Melt I had a 16.08 and I got a +2 because my fingers were too close to the cube and they said that I would get a warning if I did and I didn't get one. The average would have been 16.05 but it was 16.72. Have this happened to other people or is this a new thing? (Just wondering. I'm not mad or anything)



You should have signed for the attempt at the competition, which means you accepted the penalty when you signed. If you had an issue you should have brought it up before you signed.


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## Laura O (May 12, 2015)

Tim Major said:


> I would've assumed if enforcing this it would be a DNF. If the judge hasn't inspected it, couldn't the competitor do the last 2/3 moves needed to solve it? Seems like a strange regulation to give +2 for. And are you saying that if it's say, 46 degrees so just past but requires closer inspection, the competitor picking it up before the judge makes the decision would result in +4, rather than +2?



Regulations say:
A6e) The competitor must not touch or move the puzzle until the judge has inspected the puzzle. Penalty: disqualification of the attempt (DNF). Exception: If no moves have been applied, a time penalty (+2 seconds) may be assigned instead, at the discretion of the judge.
and
A6i) Time penalties for stopping the solve are cumulative.

I think the case when somebody grabs a puzzle and it's not clear whether it's solved or not is very rare. At least I have never seen someone do this without intention.


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## Tim Major (May 12, 2015)

Laura O said:


> I think the case when somebody grabs a puzzle and it's not clear whether it's solved or not is very rare. At least I have never seen someone do this without intention.



I've seen it happen where it's borderline +2 and they pick it up to see so I +2 them since I didn't see properly yet. Kit implied with the +16 that you could receive +4 for doing so, not +2


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## nalralz (May 12, 2015)

Kit Clement said:


> Regulations don't give warnings, and it's the competitor's responsibility to know them. If I recall correctly, Shaden said during the presentation that warnings may be given to first-timers, but you had been to several competitions before. As I said, it's not exactly within regulations to give warnings, but I feel that it's within the spirit of the WCA to give a warning to someone who is doing this for the first time.
> 
> Also, it's not about how close your hands are to the cube, it's that you must use fingers to start the timer -- I was your judge, and you had all palms on your timer. Sorry if you haven't been caught doing this before, I haven't been the judge for you yet.


Ok. No-one ever told me in previous competitions before so I was just a little confused. That's all. Thank you Kit for everything you have done! When will the results be in for the competition?


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