# Average moves per solve?



## lucaspcuber (Jun 8, 2019)

I was wondering what the average amount of moves used per solve is in correlation with a person's average time? I average about 15-17 seconds, and use on average 55-65 (63 ao12) moves per solve. What about everyone else? If I get enough responses, I might compile this into a table for everyone else to compare to.


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## ImmolatedMarmoset (Jun 8, 2019)

I average 18-19, and I use about 50=60 moves per solve (roux)


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## 1001010101001 (Jun 8, 2019)

40-50, 16-18 seconds.
Roux, of course.


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## WombatWarrior17 (Jun 8, 2019)

50-60, 12 seconds, ZZ.


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 8, 2019)

18 seconds, 54 moves, FreeFOP
((50+53+61+48+56)/5=53.6)
(Current ao100=18.28)


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 8, 2019)

Haven't done this in a while:
63 64 53 (40) 58 64 (72) 58 67 61 58 50 = 59.6 moves, seemed quite typical
basic CFOP, 20 seconds average


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## PapaSmurf (Jun 8, 2019)

45-55, 10.4s, ZZ (EOCross).
Would be lower with EOLine.


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## PugCuber (Jun 9, 2019)

Probably like 40-50 or so. CFOP. Newly Sub-12.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 9, 2019)

PugCuber said:


> Probably like 40-50 or so. CFOP. Newly Sub-12.


That seems really efficient for straight CFOP - how do you get your move count so low?


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## PugCuber (Jun 9, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> That seems really efficient for straight CFOP - how do you get your move count so low?


I use a handful of different algs from various different subsets. Plus, with FMC, before I learned NISS, My average FMC solution with only CFOP was about 52. I know Full COLL, About 30 ZBLL's, about half of WV, almost all of ELL, a bit of OLLCP, etc.


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 9, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> That seems really efficient for straight CFOP - how do you get your move count so low?


Wondering the same thing...
the only reason I might get movecounts in the forties is by building easy blocks for F2L. If you want to could you maybe do 5 solves and count your moves to get a better number? I’m not saying I don’t believe I’m just saying it’s very odd to get 40-50 moves for CFOP.

Edit: lol Pug Cuber posted at the same time as me
Ohhhh for FMC got it, okay. Makes sense.

But just FYI this thread is talking about _speedsolving _movecount not FMC


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## GioccioCuber (Jun 9, 2019)

45-50 CFOP, 11 seconds


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## PugCuber (Jun 9, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> But just FYI this thread is talking about _speedsolving _movecount not FMC


I understand that. I'm just making a relation to my FMC move count. My average FMC move count with only CFOP is very similar to my regular speedsolving move count.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 9, 2019)

PugCuber said:


> I use a handful of different algs from various different subsets. Plus, with FMC, before I learned NISS, My average FMC solution with only CFOP was about 52. I know Full COLL, About 30 ZBLL's, about half of WV, almost all of ELL, a bit of OLLCP, etc.


That would seem to imply you've gotten a lot better at move optimization since then - if your average FMC solution (where you got to try multiple times for the best solution) was 52, you'd think your average then for a regular solve must have been more like 55 to 60.

And in my experience, faster solvers, since they have more algs to choose from on a speedsolve, tend to actually increase the move count slightly, since they often use speed-optimal algs instead of move-optimal algs. I remember that in my first few years, I actually used move-optimal T perm, U perm, E perm, which made me much slower, but gave me a better move count than I have today.

I'm thinking this survey may not have a lot of value if people don't actually do an average and specifically count - I suspect people's estimates are often very far off. I know I actually expected less than 59 for myself, but I didn't get that. The moves just pile up so fast when you're doing OLL/PLL.


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## PugCuber (Jun 9, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> That would seem to imply you've gotten a lot better at move optimization since then - if your average FMC solution (where you got to try multiple times for the best solution) was 52, you'd think your average then for a regular solve must have been more like 55 to 60.
> 
> And in my experience, faster solvers, since they have more algs to choose from on a speedsolve, tend to actually increase the move count slightly, since they often use speed-optimal algs instead of move-optimal algs. I remember that in my first few years, I actually used move-optimal T perm, U perm, E perm, which made me much slower, but gave me a better move count than I have today.
> 
> I'm thinking this survey may not have a lot of value if people don't actually do an average and specifically count - I suspect people's estimates are often very far off. I know I actually expected less than 59 for myself, but I didn't get that. The moves just pile up so fast when you're doing OLL/PLL.


That is very true. The thing is, after becoming sub 12 yesterday, my lookahead is starting to get a lot better; as a result, my solves are more efficient, and as such, may cause a lower move count. Another thing that has affected my lookahead in a positive way, is by doing 3x3 with feet. Since I'm turning slower, I can lookahead much further. i.e., like I did in my 38.26 Official Feet Solve I got at Southern Champs. By 1looking to 2nd pair in that solve, my lookahead got much better for both feet, and 3x3.


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## Ash Black (Jun 9, 2019)

51.80 move count ao12 i average about 10


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## PugCuber (Jun 9, 2019)

Mike Hughey said:


> That seems really efficient for straight CFOP - how do you get your move count so low?


Well, I am Fully Color Neutral. That may be why.

Just did a move count ao12 as well. 
Lowest Move Count: 39
Highest Move Count: 61
43, 53, 54, 54, 50, 54, 55, 56, (39), (61), 54 = ~47.3 Moves on Average


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## efattah (Jun 10, 2019)

PugCuber said:


> Just did a move count ao12 as well.
> Lowest Move Count: 39
> Highest Move Count: 61
> 43, 53, 54, 54, 50, 54, 55, 56, (39), (61), 54 = ~47.3 Moves on Average



That list contains 11 solves, and if you average the 9 counting ones, the average is 52.55, not 47.3.


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## WoowyBaby (Jun 10, 2019)

Here is Pug Cuber’s post but correct-

“Around 53 moves. CFOP. Newly Sub-12.”


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## Tom Joad (Jun 10, 2019)

WoowyBaby said:


> Here is Pug Cuber’s post but correct-
> 
> “Around 53 moves. CFOP. Newly Sub-12.”



Haha


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## xyzzy (Jun 10, 2019)

From 20 slow solves:
11.45 moves for cross+1.
18.55 moves for the rest of F2L.
17.4 moves for LL (8/20 ZBLL, 12/20 2LLL).
Average 47.4 moves (standard error 1.1) for the whole solve.

(For the most part, I used the 11-move RU U perms instead of the 9-move optimal algs, so these _could_ have been lower if I was trying to do linear FMC solves.)

I know my move counts in slow solves and my move counts in speedsolves are _very_ different; I remember the last time I tried reconstructing my own solves, I was getting around 60 moves even though averaging below 50 moves in slow solves is ezpz. I might try recording an ao50 and reconstructing all of those to see if I've improved since. (Dang, this would be so much easier with one of those newfangled smart cubes.)

-------

edit: I just remembered, I reconstructed an OH ao12 I did before. 51.7 moves, 22.00 seconds. It was really lucky though, and probably not very representative.


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## PugCuber (Jun 10, 2019)

My bad! I thought that was 12!
Here is the revision with 1 more Solve.
43, 53, 54, 54, 50, 54, 55, 56, (39), (61), 54, 51 = ~52.4 Moves on Average
Sorry! I miscounted before.


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## GenTheThief (Jun 10, 2019)

Average movecount of 7 solves:
*35.8* moves for F2L (ZZ with EOLine).
*18* moves for LL (5/7 ZBLL).
*54* moves total.

These were slowish solves but I tried to do what I would do in a speedsolve. There were a few instances where I could have canceled into LL and saved a move or two but I wouldn't have noticed in a speedsolve so I didn't.
For the two solves without ZBLL, I used the 7 move MU Uperm.

I might try to do actual speedsolves with recons to see true movecounts later. I average pretty close to 11.5.


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## Filipe Teixeira (Jun 10, 2019)

60ish, cfop
I average 16~17


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## PapaSmurf (Jun 11, 2019)

I tried to reconstruct an ao5, got 3 solves in and gave up, but here are my results as far as I know:
Solve 1: 57 (49 with ZBLL), 8.58
Solve 2: 47, 7.46
Solve 3: 61 (52 with ZBLL), 9.83 
Solve 4: ?, 10.77
Solve 5: ?, 8.56
From those 3 solves, it shows that using ZBLL drops a significant amount off my solves, so when I learn it, I will be averaging low 50s or fewer in speedsolves.


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## TheCube4226 (Jun 11, 2019)

lucaspcuber said:


> I was wondering what the average amount of moves used per solve is in correlation with a person's average time? I average about 15-17 seconds, and use on average 55-65 (63 ao12) moves per solve. What about everyone else? If I get enough responses, I might compile this into a table for everyone else to compare to.


I average 13-14 and 60 moves per solve with CFOP (Full PLL and almost full OLL)


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## jronge94 (Jun 12, 2019)

I'd say around 60 with regular CFOP.


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## RouxCuber (Jun 13, 2019)

usually somewhere around 44 (Roux)
i average very low 10 on 3x3 (maybe sub 10 now, IDK), and mid 12 on OH


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## Cuberstache (Jun 13, 2019)

60 (12.72)
57 (15.95)
53 (12.23)
(61) (10.61)
(52) (10.57)

57.67 ao5 (CFOP)

Interesting that move count seems to have little effect on my times, at least in this ao5.


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## Thom S. (Jun 13, 2019)

CuberStache said:


> 60 (12.72)
> 57 (15.95)
> 53 (12.23)
> (61) (10.61)
> ...


That's the product of modern cubes allowing such a fast turning style


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## SiTeMaRo (Jun 13, 2019)

48-58 moves. Average 13 seconds. Roux.


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## Tom23 (Jun 19, 2019)

100 moves because I average 45 secs


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