# BLD (3x3) help



## dillonbladez (May 22, 2010)

Should this be in BLD discussion? Because it says its for BLD dicussion and stuff, so I don't know if this question should go there. 

So, i'm starting to get serious about learning 3x3 BLD. Right now, I'm following Badmeph's BLD tutorial. So, i'm learning Old Pochmann for just edges.

I've tried 2x2 BLD, but I can't do it all the time, since i kinda rush my set-up moves, so i can't ever re-do them :fp. Though this happens, I've had a couple of successes. 

So, for my corners, I think i will do 
-orient
-permute
For corner memo, i will associate each corner with a note (musical) so that, strung together, it will create an 8 note long song...thing. (90% of the time, it's probably going to sound horrible xD)
Do you think it's a good idea? 

Now, my real problem is edge memo. I can't really use story method, because frankly, i'm not creative at all.  Any tips for which memo method to choose for edges?

err, so now my last problem is which to do first; edges or corners? 

So, thanks in advance


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

http://speedcubing.com/chris/memorizing.html

I personally use letter images for corners and letter pair words/sounds for edges.

I memorize corners first and solve them last since the images stay in memory longer than the sounds, but the sounds are a very fast way to memorize edges. I also have my own list of the words/sounds that I can send you if you'd like another list that is different from Hardwick's. (My images list is far from finished.)


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## amostay2004 (May 23, 2010)

Interesting corner memo, sounds like it could work nicely, though I think it's more suitable for Old Pochmann corners? How are you gonna separate orientation and permutation with the notes?

As for edges, a simple and fast way would be to label each edge sticker with a letter. You can just come up with random things to do with the letters to make you remember them eg. make a story, sound, expression, sentences, images, etc. ~12 letters wouldn't take too much effort to memo


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

amostay2004 said:


> Interesting corner memo, sounds like it could work nicely, though I think it's more suitable for Old Pochmann corners? How are you gonna separate orientation and permutation with the notes?
> 
> As for edges, a simple and fast way would be to label each edge sticker with a letter. You can just come up with random things to do with the letters to make you remember them eg. make a story, sound, expression, sentences, images, etc. ~12 letters wouldn't take too much effort to memo



actually, 24 letters 

for my corner memo, i orient first, like i learned in lance's 2x2 bld tutorial (really simple, really. just use corner twists) then after that, i permute with my 'notes' method 
all edge memo methods seem the same to me


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## cincyaviation (May 23, 2010)

well since this conveniently made thread appeared, i guess i'll post some questions in it too. 
I currently use old pochmann for edges and corners, i use story method to memo edges (each sticker has a letter, each letter gets a word) and i'm trying to do the same for corners, but i don't think i can have 2 stories in my head without messing something up, it's fine for edges, but can anyone show me a better way to memo corners?


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

amostay2004 said:


> Interesting corner memo, sounds like it could work nicely, though I think it's more suitable for Old Pochmann corners? How are you gonna separate orientation and permutation with the notes?



Oh, right. I forgot he was orienting and then permuting. But the edges suggestion would still work.

And that memo method works well for Old Pochmann, R2, BH... pretty much anything that doesn't separate orientation and permutation.


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## Zane_C (May 23, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> well since this conveniently made thread appeared, i guess i'll post some questions in it too.
> I currently use old pochmann for edges and corners, i use story method to memo edges (each sticker has a letter, each letter gets a word) and i'm trying to do the same for corners, but i don't think i can have 2 stories in my head without messing something up, it's fine for edges, but can anyone show me a better way to memo corners?



Try visual, at first it can be difficult but you should notice improvement pretty quickly.


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## amostay2004 (May 23, 2010)

dillonbladez said:


> amostay2004 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting corner memo, sounds like it could work nicely, though I think it's more suitable for Old Pochmann corners? How are you gonna separate orientation and permutation with the notes?
> ...



Hmm well I was talking about during a bld solve where you'll usually just need to memo 12-15 letters...but yea there will be a total of 24 stickers (though you wont need to label your buffer so that makes 22)


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> well since this conveniently made thread appeared, i guess i'll post some questions in it too.
> I currently use old pochmann for edges and corners, i use story method to memo edges (each sticker has a letter, each letter gets a word) and i'm trying to do the same for corners, but i don't think i can have 2 stories in my head without messing something up, it's fine for edges, but can anyone show me a better way to memo corners?



Try pairing up letters and having a word for each pair. That way words don't get repeated nearly as often and the stories will be much more memorable.


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

This probably won't apply to me (i'm not good enough yet ) but this could work.
So, this memo system is based entirely on music.
Edges would be memo-d with Intervals. +1 +2 +3 P4 P5 +6 +7 P8 -1 -2 -3 -6 -7 Aug1 Aug2 Aug3 Aug6 Aug7 Dim1 Dim2 Dim3 Dim6 Dim7. 
Maybe some musical genious could try this? 

Then my corners method (orient, then permute, memo permutation with notes.)


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## cincyaviation (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> cincyaviation said:
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> 
> > well since this conveniently made thread appeared, i guess i'll post some questions in it too.
> ...


i'll try that, that might be good, because then i will probably only have 12-13 words at most



Zane_C said:


> cincyaviation said:
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> 
> > well since this conveniently made thread appeared, i guess i'll post some questions in it too.
> ...


is there a specific way to do visual? it seems hard to remember all the corners just by looking at them a few times


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

you could ride a roller coaster, or draw imaginary lines from piece to piece, from what i hear.


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## cincyaviation (May 23, 2010)

dillonbladez said:


> you could ride a roller coaster, or draw imaginary lines from piece to piece, from what i hear.


its hard to memo the orientation of the piece from that though


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

er, yah. you could try my memo method 

hey cincy, why not gimmie some tips xD


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## cincyaviation (May 23, 2010)

dillonbladez said:


> er, yah. you could try my memo method
> 
> hey cincy, why not gimmie some tips xD



but i'm not musical 
i suppose i could try 3OP, but old pochmann is so much simpler, going to do an Edges only BLD solve right now, back in a few (maybe more if i eat some mashmallows)


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

give me some tips on edges xD
You don't exactly have to be musical. It can be compared to singing a song you listen to.you just need to know how to associate note names and the actual 'pitch' and vice versa

going to try corners only solve. (on 2x2 )


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## cincyaviation (May 23, 2010)

just at a marsh mallow, then
GOT MY FIRST EDGES ONLY BLD SOLVE!
time: 6:31.62 (lol)
story was
injuries die good X-raying pot vying under people's mazdas at wyoming mountains
except i feel like i left something out in what i just wrote because i had to switch out the buffer twice
@dillon, 
for edges, try to only have to remember at minnimum 1 thing per piece, memoing 2 colors on each piece is slow, you could also avoid memoing the first piece by looking at it right before you execute, and just remembering where it goes


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

I tried a similar musical technique before for corners (using a method that places pieces without orienting first).

I memorized the permutation of pieces visually and then memorized Do Re or Mi for whether the sticker was on U/D (do), L/R (re), or F/B (mi). If you actually hum the pitches it's quite easy to remember, but I didn't use it because I use short term memo for edges already and it interfered.

If you have any ear for music, a short tune such as C D E C E D C is very easy to hear in your heard and recall a short time later.


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> just at a marsh mallow, then
> GOT MY FIRST EDGES ONLY BLD SOLVE!
> time: 6:31.62 (lol)
> story was
> ...


1.Aren't you only supposed to memo one thing per edge? eg, B/R edge = brick
2. er, I'm doing old pochmann for edges too, and I don't think you use visual for memo
3. huh?


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## cincyaviation (May 23, 2010)

dillonbladez said:


> cincyaviation said:
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> > just at a marsh mallow, then
> ...


on whatever you execute first, you really don't have to memo the first piece, as its easy just to look at it right before you don the BLDfold and see where it goes, but if you are doing orientation/permutation that won't work
as for 1 and 2, meh


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

dillonbladez said:


> cincyaviation said:
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> > just at a marsh mallow, then
> ...



It's much more effective to label each sticker with a letter. For instance, the UB sticker for me is 'A' and the BU sticker is 'B'. In this way, you can memorize 2 edges for the price of one.

ie. My cycle begins with UC, which is my letter 'C', followed by RB which is my letter 'L'. I combine these to form the letter pair 'CL' and memorize the word "call".


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## cincyaviation (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> dillonbladez said:
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> > cincyaviation said:
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??? :confused:


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## Sakarie (May 23, 2010)

dillonbladez said:


> This probably won't apply to me (i'm not good enough yet ) but this could work.
> So, this memo system is based entirely on music.
> Edges would be memo-d with Intervals. +1 +2 +3 P4 P5 +6 +7 P8 -1 -2 -3 -6 -7 Aug1 Aug2 Aug3 Aug6 Aug7 Dim1 Dim2 Dim3 Dim6 Dim7.
> Maybe some musical genious could try this?
> ...



It's a funny idea, but not fully working. How would you know if it's an small third, or augmented second? And what is a diminished prime?

But there are 12 edges, and there are 12 tones, so why couldn't you memorize it like that? Yes, it would be som terrible twelve tone technique, but it might work! Right now I wished that I oriented first...

Edit:

I just solved a 2x2 using visual orientation and the musicmemo. I'll try doing edges when already oriented...

Yeah, that worked too! 2:26 and it was solved. But I guess I already had memoed it visually too... But what I did was having it in a normal major scale, but more then one octave. Halfsteps would've been too hard for me. 

OBS, I'm no musical genius, but I'm kind of good at music, so if you're in that range too, there probably aren't any problems.


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> dillonbladez said:
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> > cincyaviation said:
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It's not really two for the price of one. but it could be simpler if it was G/O edge was A but the O/G edge would be A'
but i still don't see how that could be easily memo-d.
I like to memo using a string of numbers. i find that a lot easier than letters.

But i kinda find it hard to associate so many different numbers with so many different edges


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

Sakarie said:


> dillonbladez said:
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> 
> > This probably won't apply to me (i'm not good enough yet ) but this could work.
> ...


Yes, well, i've only just started taking music theory, so I am quite new at this


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> ??? :confused:



Lol. Oops. My bad. Fixed.



dillonbladez said:


> riffz said:
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> > dillonbladez said:
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I'd say its 2 for the price of 1 if you memorize one word/phrase to represent 2 pieces instead of 1...

What you do mean A'? How would I make up words using that? There are 24 different positions for edge stickers as well as corners, which is perfectly suitable for using the English alphabet.


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## cincyaviation (May 23, 2010)

dillonbladez said:


> riffz said:
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you are not remembering letters though, you are remembering a very short story


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## Feryll (May 23, 2010)

Just for reference, it's easy to memo orientation of corners as well as permutation. Like the rollercoaster thing, you could just imagine a lot of twists if the memo changes sides constantly. This is especially effective if it changes by sides by 1 away constantly (ex *F*DR *R*BD *B*LD *L*FU *F*DR I see a coaster taking a sharp right [which also gets engraved into my memory as a sune OLL] taking a hill up, and twisting down like the dragster. But only when it gets tough do I actually picture the coaster in my head). If it is changing by 2 sides (ex *R*FU *L*FU *R*BD *F*DL) it is easy to see where you tap it, and you get a slight break from remembering orientation as long as you know where the 2 side swaps end. You'll figure out your own unique systems.

Remember kids, never doubt your brain to remember visually!

And it sounds cooler when you say "I just remember where the pieces needed to go" as opposed to "I make up a little story with bears and rabbits on a pogo stick race to the moon" when someone asks you how you do it


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> cincyaviation said:
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> > ??? :confused:
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er nvm

Is there another (easier to remember. i'm willing to learn algs) way to orient corners other than twisting corners individually?


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## Sakarie (May 23, 2010)

dillonbladez said:


> riffz said:
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http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393 

Learn to orient all corners but one in each layer, and then orient those two. The easiest way to memorize is to remember what algorithms you're going to use, and not if they're + or -.


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## Faz (May 23, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> just at a marsh mallow, then
> 
> injuries die good X-raying pot vying under people's mazdas at wyoming mountains



ID GX PV UP MAWM

-> I.D. Gix poverty up mawm

Idk it's way easier for me to to it in pairs, sometimes throwing in random stuff like GiX.


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## cincyaviation (May 23, 2010)

fazrulz said:


> cincyaviation said:
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> > just at a marsh mallow, then
> ...


 So this is the famous Zemdegs memo method.


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

cincyaviation said:


> fazrulz said:
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> > cincyaviation said:
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haha. I don't get how you guys memo so fast xD


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## Faz (May 23, 2010)

Well, that's what I'd use for multi

For regular bld it'd just be

id gix pov up ma wem or sth.


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## jackdexter75 (May 23, 2010)

None of this makes sense. hahahaha. I wish I knew. =(


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

He's just making up random one-syllable words that he can recall quickly.


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## dillonbladez (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> He's just making up random one-syllable words that he can recall quickly.



those are words? 0.o


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## MiloD (May 23, 2010)

riffz said:


> He's just making up random one-syllable words that he can recall quickly.



I use to do this until I realized I was way over 50% DNF. I switched to a person-action-person-place system where every action is a directional action that can be applied from one person to another. Like stabs, or farts on, not like shaking hands or something. The bigger chunks are very helpful and it usually only takes 3 quick situations for all the edges. Grouping the people in a particular way was especially helpful in the initial association phase. Recall is 100% and usually my only DNF's are pieces flipped in place that I missed during memo.

The goal was always to find things that can be logically combined. This serves as a form of information compression. Syllables and letters can be combined very easily but the combination may not be significant(weird nonsense words can sound very similar) so you have to resort to pure rote memory power or look up tables to make them significant(CL -> Call). Sure the association is easy but I never liked this "translation" step. At first I was using Person-Action-Object-Place system but there were a lot of problems with the action not agreeing with the object. This annoyed me as I have a hard time imagining someone "solving oil". At some point I realized that the people could be the direct object, and I could drop the entire list of 19 objects(for M2 orienting middle layer edges last you only need 19). I changed my verbs to ones that can be done by one person to another. It has been working very well. 

I think for 3x3 this system has one main advantages over the traditional PA system. The chunks are bigger and remembering the order of the chunks has not been an issue(for me at least, I've only been doing it for a couple of weeks).


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## riffz (May 23, 2010)

MiloD said:


> riffz said:
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> > He's just making up random one-syllable words that he can recall quickly.
> ...



Interesting... I use something similar to faz for edge memo except that I compiled a list of actual words. I find it very consistent and almost never screw up my edges. Visual corners was what was killing my consistency.


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