# 3x3 Ortega/Waterman Time Breakdown



## BadgerSex (Aug 24, 2008)

My first sub-minute times have been with the ortega method! 
It owns my LBL times, more than 20 seconds faster! And I've only been using it for 10 days, where I've been working on LBL for maybe a month. And I keep calling the Waterman method the "Watermelon method" -- which is a much cooler name anyway 

Right now my times are:
15-18 seconds to solve all corners
19-25 seconds for the 3+4 L and R edges
15-20 secs for the final moves,
for a total of 55-58 seconds.

My number of moves is around 52, which means it's plenty more efficient than the LBL method I was using before. With waterman, for which I have only learned a few extra algorithms, my average is slightly slower, mostly because my first layer probably uses more moves than it should (anywhere from 15 to 24).

So what should I work on? I'm looking to hear from anyone who uses Corners-First methods, or to talk with anyone interested in using CF.

Thanks!


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## rachmaninovian (Aug 24, 2008)

i average sub 40s with corners first  i had to learn corners first for solving 4x4 so yea.
back to 3x3 i don't follow the exact steps, i solve the top and bottom layer and then the middle edges I either use 3-cycles, the BLD edge orientation alg or some random M and U moves. I just do it for fun


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## BadgerSex (Aug 24, 2008)

rachmaninovian said:


> i average sub 40s with corners first  i had to learn corners first for solving 4x4 so yea.
> back to 3x3 i don't follow the exact steps, i solve the top and bottom layer and then the middle edges I either use 3-cycles, the BLD edge orientation alg or some random M and U moves. I just do it for fun



That's awesome 4x4 times... Where'd you learn your cf 4x4 method?


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## rachmaninovian (Aug 24, 2008)

no i meant i average 40s FOR 3x3...sorry for not being clear.

anyway, for my CF 4x4 average is about 1:33 to 1:35 with practise.
I learnt a beginner cage-like solution on georges helm's website and optimized it.


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## Kenneth (Aug 24, 2008)

I'm using both methods for solving 2x2x2 and if I use Ortega I usally gets around 9 seconds with a wery small deviation. If I do Waterman (CLL) I get times in the range 6-12 seconds. If it is a easy first layer and a CLL I know wery well, then 6.xx is done just like that, no effort at all, but if it is a tricky first layer and a slow recognition in CLL I can do really bad =) I'm colour neutral and some combiantions of colours for some cases can make me go "Uh??, eh??" for a long while sometimes. IF I do Ortega that newer happens, it is always the same old cases you recognise in a blink.

So on average it makes the same but for a record solve I recommend Waterman


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## BadgerSex (Aug 24, 2008)

Wow my times keep getting better... my best non-lucky solve so far is 34 seconds, and I've averaged 40 for 3 out of 5 solves (my general average is 46). I'm really surprised how much faster I've gotten since I switched!


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## doc66649 (Sep 4, 2008)

r u gettign any faster with your corners methods? i can help?

doc


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## rubiksfriend (Sep 4, 2008)

Work on the first layer for Waterman a lot. I recommend using a Roux approach: 1x2x3 block, then insert the remaining two corners and an edge.


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## TMOY (Sep 5, 2008)

You may try to improve on corners by practising on 2^3 too.


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## somerandomkidmike (Sep 11, 2008)

rubiksfriend said:


> Work on the first layer for Waterman a lot. I recommend using a Roux approach: 1x2x3 block, then insert the remaining two corners and an edge.



I average about 7 seconds using something similar to this. I think people could easily average sub-5 seconds using this approach.


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