# [WR] Sebastian Weyer 26.03 4x4 avg



## imvelox (Sep 7, 2014)

http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=588&cat=3&rnd=1

26.06 (27.08) 26.36 25.68 (24.86)	

wat


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## TDM (Sep 7, 2014)

wat.
Again? No video yet but it gets posted here anyway?


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## Please Dont Ask (Sep 7, 2014)

dafuq?????


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## CyanSandwich (Sep 7, 2014)

Omg Sebastian. He's dominating 4x4.


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## AmazingCuber (Sep 7, 2014)

wat


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## Tim Major (Sep 7, 2014)

ok


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 7, 2014)

Even if he hadn't +2ed at Euros this would still be WR. Insane.


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## PeelingStickers (Sep 7, 2014)

Juses Crust


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## CriticalCubing (Sep 7, 2014)

wat? Oh my holy days! Good Lord! Impossible!


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## Sajwo (Sep 7, 2014)

*[WR] Sebastian Weyer 26.03 4x4 Average*

26.06, (27.08), 26.36, 25.68, (24.86) = 26.03	

WR by 1.14s 



Spoiler



Crazy fact:
He had improved 4x4 WR Averages by
- 1.64s
- 1.02s
- 0.98s
- 1.14s
= 1.20s in average. What's next? 24.8x?


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## scottishcuber (Sep 7, 2014)

Wth. 

How does he consistently beat the wr by a second?


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## Iggy (Sep 7, 2014)

wtffff


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## ryanj92 (Sep 7, 2014)

27.08 is the -worst- time in this average.
let that sink in for a moment 

insane average, congratulations


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## Please Dont Ask (Sep 7, 2014)

There is another thread....
gj s weyer


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## guysensei1 (Sep 7, 2014)

Whaaaaaaaaat?!

Holy cow!


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## KongShou (Sep 7, 2014)

Sweet jeuse


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## Carrot (Sep 7, 2014)

He really doesn't want to let anyone else have a chance?


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## PJKCuber (Sep 7, 2014)

Wow!


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## MarcelP (Sep 7, 2014)

I need to get cube lessons from this guy....


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## FailCuber (Sep 7, 2014)

He's probably better then Feliks now.


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## megaminxwin (Sep 7, 2014)

FailCuber said:


> He's probably better then Feliks now.



He's been better than Feliks at 4x4 for quite some time now actually.

Just... what?!


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 7, 2014)

The 5th time he has broken the WR average in a row. Yes, on paper he is better than Faz.


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## goodatthis (Sep 7, 2014)

In early 2013, this would have beaten the single WR.


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## Tim Major (Sep 7, 2014)

cube-o-holic said:


> The 5th time he has broken the WR average in a row. Yes, on paper he is better than Faz.



Not just on paper, I think Feliks would confirm he averages no where near this (or even the previous WR)


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## SolveThatCube (Sep 7, 2014)

wat the wat?!

Someone needs to get a leash on this guy! He lead by over 10 seconds!



FailCuber said:


> He's probably better then Feliks now.



Ya think?!


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## Lazy Einstein (Sep 7, 2014)

Annnnnnnnd this has nothing to do with Feliks.

Grats Sebastian. You are too fast. You should make an example solves video. =D
Sub-20 single with sub-25 average to come? Do it!


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 7, 2014)

Lazy Einstein said:


> Annnnnnnnd this has nothing to do with Feliks.



People comparing 1st and 2nd ranked competitors at an event. OMG!!!

Infractions all round.


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## Mollerz (Sep 7, 2014)

Just been informed that this is all on video. Will be good to see!


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## Millet (Sep 7, 2014)

So awesome. What cube is he using btw?



Mollerz said:


> Just been informed that this is all on video. Will be good to see!



Good news then! Not like last time.


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## BboyArchon (Sep 7, 2014)

Seriously? :| Can't wait to watch the video


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## goodatthis (Sep 7, 2014)

Millet said:


> So awesome. What cube is he using btw?
> 
> 
> 
> Good news then! Not like last time.


I would be very surprised if he were using anything other than an aosu.


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## CiaranBeahan (Sep 7, 2014)

How on earth is this even possible!

I'll cry if this isn't on video!


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## amostay2004 (Sep 7, 2014)

Lol I remember when Mats got a 26 single WR and everyone was like wtf


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## goodatthis (Sep 7, 2014)

Inb4 any sort of regulations controversy happens like in every other record set these days


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## qqwref (Sep 7, 2014)

How is he so fast? ;_;


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## PeelingStickers (Sep 7, 2014)

goodatthis said:


> Inb4 any sort of regulations controversy happens like in every other record set these days



whenever this happens it is always predicted... curse you!!!


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## Riley (Sep 7, 2014)

How in the world...

+1 on example solves please!


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## Please Dont Ask (Sep 7, 2014)

goodatthis said:


> I would be very surprised if he were using anything other than an aosu.



What if it was a YJ shensu!!!


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## Antonie faz fan (Sep 7, 2014)

Yup i can verify that every single solve is on cam. Gratz sebastian!


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## Coolster01 (Sep 7, 2014)

Damn it sebastian youre gonna be over 60000 on fantasy now


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## Wilhelm (Sep 7, 2014)

Funfact
He said that he didn't practised too much 4x4 since Euro. I don't know where he gets these times from


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## Mr Cubism (Sep 7, 2014)

insane…..


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## notfeliks (Sep 7, 2014)

da fuuuuuuq?

how...


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## FinnGamer (Sep 7, 2014)

Wilhelm said:


> Funfact
> He said that he didn't practised too much 4x4 since Euro. I don't know where he gets these times from



He said he didn't do a SINGLE solve of 4x4 since Euros.... we told him to go practice some more


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## scottishcuber (Sep 7, 2014)

FinnGamer said:


> He said he didn't do a SINGLE solve of 4x4 since Euros.... we told him to go practice some more



LIES


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## slinky773 (Sep 7, 2014)

So I saw this in the new posts list, and I thought it was about the old WR from Euro round 1... Nope. wat, too fazt


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## IRNjuggle28 (Sep 10, 2014)

Was it filmed?


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## Artic (Sep 10, 2014)

Where is the video?


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## RayLam (Sep 10, 2014)

insane...he's bound to be with no pressure


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## Cubeologist (Sep 10, 2014)

Amazing. Congratulations to him. I can not wait to see the video!


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## CiaranBeahan (Sep 11, 2014)

Cubeologist said:


> I can not wait to see the video!



If there is one


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 11, 2014)

CiaranBeahan said:


> If there is one



A few reports that all the solves are on video.


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## Sebastien (Sep 11, 2014)

don't worry, there is one this time. But Sebastian is always quite slow with uploading.


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## imvelox (Sep 14, 2014)

video pls


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## Antonie faz fan (Sep 14, 2014)

imvelox said:


> video pls



couldn't you take the slightest time to read the above post?


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 14, 2014)

Antonie faz fan said:


> couldn't you take the slightest time to read the above post?



To be fair the above post was written 3 days ago. 3 days is a fair amount of additional time to upload a video in. Hurry up Seb =P


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## EMI (Sep 14, 2014)

He said to me he won't upload it, because he considers it too slow...
jk


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## acohen527 (Sep 14, 2014)

Inb4 no post because controversial video


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## yoshinator (Sep 14, 2014)

acohen527 said:


> Inb4 no post because controversial video


I was honestly just thinking that. If I had an average where something was scrambled wrong, or anything wonky happened, there's no ****ing way I'd post it


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## ajayd (Sep 14, 2014)

yoshinator said:


> I was honestly just thinking that. If I had an average where something was scrambled wrong, or anything wonky happened, there's no ****ing way I'd post it



Don't forget the case where you don't see anything wrong with your video so you post it, someone finds out that the orientation was wrong or the scramble was invalid, and then your solve gets a DNF without any knowledge of a mistake on your part.


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## AvGalen (Sep 14, 2014)

We don't often see conspiracy theories on speedsolving.

If I understand modern internet, would this be a moment to post a "gets popcorn" gif?


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## Stefan (Sep 14, 2014)

yoshinator said:


> If I had an average where something was scrambled wrong, or anything wonky happened, there's no ****ing way I'd post it



Good to know.


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## qqwref (Sep 14, 2014)

In the US we have a principle where a suspect of a crime can't be forced to incriminate themselves. I think it's a good idea, why not apply it here too? 

It's a rough road we're going down... something wrong with your average is evidence enough to disqualify you after the fact, even if it's not your fault (and even if you couldn't have possibly known at the time). Actually, I don't know why anyone would post their own official solve videos on the forum.


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## Ollie (Sep 14, 2014)

qqwref said:


> In the US we have a principle where a suspect of a crime can't be forced to incriminate themselves. I think it's a good idea, why not apply it here too?
> 
> It's a rough road we're going down... something wrong with your average is evidence enough to disqualify you after the fact, even if it's not your fault (and even if you couldn't have possibly known at the time). Actually, I don't know why anyone would post their own official solve videos on the forum.



If you cut out the majority of the solve and left the last layer for each solve, for example, there would be no way to definitively prove if it came from an incorrect scramble? Anyone who has done FMC using CFOP knows there are many different LL's possible from inserting single moves or changing F2L inserts/algs slightly. Obviously the community won't benefit from the full solution, which would be a shame, but at least it protects the competitors.

Edit: GJ Sebastian


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## XTowncuber (Sep 15, 2014)

If I saw something that broke a regulation in my video and was absolutely positive that it gave no advantage (eg accidental turning during inspection) I would probably not upload it. If it did give me an advantage I would upload it and be the first to say that it was illegitimate.

That's the difference for me.


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## rowehessler (Sep 15, 2014)

he's seriously not uploading it?


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## uyneb2000 (Sep 15, 2014)

If we are going to be punished for something we can't control being on film, I wouldn't upload it.

WCA needs to rethink their regulations regarding this. We either film everything or nothing. We either disqualify everything not according to the regs and not just NRs, CRs, or WRs, or don't disqualify everything. It's not fair for those who get away, and those who deserve the times they get, only to be squandered by some careless judge or scrambler.

Judges, also, need to be experienced. If possible, the competitor should acknowledge anything that happens with the solve immediately and get a delegate. This way action can be taken promptly and not a day, a week, or who knows how long later, and it seems more reasonable. It's not just the judge's or scrambler's fault, it's also the competitor's responsibility to be aware of anything that happens.


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## Lucas Garron (Sep 15, 2014)

uyneb2000 said:


> WCA needs to rethink their regulations regarding this. We either film everything or nothing.



How do you reconcile the fact that we *can't* film everything, but people like to film their solves? (In fact, filming and sharing solves has been a core activity in the speedsolving community.)



uyneb2000 said:


> We either disqualify everything not according to the regs and not just NRs, CRs, or WRs, or don't disqualify everything. It's not fair for those who get away, and those who deserve the times they get, only to be squandered by some careless judge or scrambler.



The Board has acted just the same for everything that has come to their attention.
I agree that it's a bit unfair that high-profile filmed solves come under higher scrutiny. But we also need to make clear that we hold all solves to the Regulations, and that nothing gets special treatment.

Suggestions for how to handle judging mistakes would be useful.


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## Stefan (Sep 15, 2014)

How bad is it, really? Like, how often does something get invalidated because of a video and the solver disagrees?


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## That70sShowDude (Sep 15, 2014)

rowehessler said:


> he's seriously not uploading it?



Who said he wasn't uploading it? 

Usually he doesn't upload them right away.


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## AvGalen (Sep 15, 2014)

Question:


That70sShowDude said:


> Who said he wasn't uploading it?
> 
> Usually he doesn't upload them right away.


Answer: EMI


EMI said:


> He said to me he won't upload it, because he considers it too slow...
> jk





Stefan said:


> How bad is it, really? Like, how often does something get invalidated because of a video and the solver disagrees?



Pyraminx incident lately is the first thing that comes to mind. The problem is that it is mostly WR's that will get analyzed to the bone after having already been approved by the judge. So I can understand why people will hesitate to put their WR online. It might be unexpectedly invalidated


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## ajayd (Sep 15, 2014)

Do you see the jk on EMI's post?


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## kcl (Sep 15, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> Question:
> Answer: EMI
> 
> 
> ...



I have two friends who have either lost or nearly lost WR's because of video. You can bet without doubt that I watched my NAR over countless times to make sure nothing was out of the ordinary. Like Drew said, I feel like if there were a small regulation error that gave no advantage I might not upload that solve. However, I will not voluntarily give myself an advantage just to keep a record, in that case it's wrong and I would admit to it with no hesitation.


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## AvGalen (Sep 15, 2014)

ajayd said:


> Do you see the jk on EMI's post?


I do now, but I didn't when I was browsing this topic and had my screen brightness at the lowest because it was night. Thanks for pointing that out. Not sure I think that joke is funny


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## Tim Major (Sep 15, 2014)

yoshinator said:


> I was honestly just thinking that. If I had an average where something was scrambled wrong, or anything wonky happened, there's no ****ing way I'd post it



Since you film pretty much everything, if you didn't upload I just wouldn't respect your record, as I'd assume (or know considering you just posted this...) that something was wrong in the video.

I'm sure Sebastian is just taking his time and this discussion is pointless


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## David Zemdegs (Sep 15, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> Pyraminx incident lately is the first thing that comes to mind. The problem is that it is mostly WR's that will get analyzed to the bone after having already been approved by the judge. So I can understand why people will hesitate to put their WR online. It might be unexpectedly invalidated



Well that's the last video I'll ever upload . I don't know about popcorn but maybe Godwins law if it gets too silly?


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## antoineccantin (Sep 15, 2014)

AvGalen said:


> Pyraminx incident lately is the first thing that comes to mind. The problem is that it is mostly WR's that will get analyzed to the bone after having already been approved by the judge. So I can understand why people will hesitate to put their WR online. It might be unexpectedly invalidated



This must be especially true for 4x4/5x5 as well, since the chance of it being mis-scrambled is fairly high, and if someone noticed, it could mean disqualification.


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## cubizh (Sep 15, 2014)

On this "not uploading because..." side topic, I think people should focus more in following the regulations and conduct themselves in an ethical manner above all else. 
If someone points out that there's an irregularity with your solve and you can agree that something is not right, or even if you see it while watching the video yourself, you should be the first to acknowledge it and want to maintain the consistency of the results.

Being ethical in this sense is to do the right thing even when other people are not looking. 
Ask yourself "_Would I be ok if I knew a regulation was violated during my attempt but no one else noticed it?_" 
If the answer is yes, perhaps you should reflect on "_Would I be ok with ending up with someone else's property, if no one would ever find out?_". Food for thought. 
I think one's true character is revealed in these situations.
I don't want to go into a deep ethical debate but I think in this very specific case of judging solves, the "following the regulations" approach should prevail. 

There's a proper place to debate and present concrete examples of situations where the regulations don't do what you consider to be the right thing to do, and present sound suggestions to improve and fix the regulations. The regulations are not perfect. But if they are currently active, they should be applied.

Also, I need to point out something that most people are somewhat ignoring:

*VIDEO EVIDENCE IS NOT EXCLUSIVELY USED TO DISCARD SOLVES!*

It is actually used a lot more times in helping fix judging mistakes and providing evidence that can allow fixing mistakes, than DNFing solves.
Concrete example: Judge writes 12.17 ; score taker understand 12.77. If there's a video, the competitor can present this issue to the delegate, where video evidence is the most definitive way to argue.

What happens is it's a lot more impactful when it's applied to world class competitors than to everyone else. 
There's always more attention and scrutiny towards fast people, but that's like in any sport. Consider UK's Primiership football matches with 25 camera angles versus League Two matches. That's just the way things are.


Going back to the OP, it would be great to see a video, as it's always nice to see world class solves, but since apparently only his own camera recorded the solves and no one else did, it's of course his decision to do what he wants with the footage, but hopefully we will be able to see some time.


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## EMI (Sep 15, 2014)

cubizh said:


> Going back to the OP, it would be great to see a video, as it's always nice to see world class solves, but since apparently only his own camera recorded the solves and no one else did, it's of course his decision to do what he wants with the footage, but hopefully we will be able to see some time.



In fact I recorded the first four solves with my friend's camera (the first one only from a distance), and I believe all five solves were recorded by somebody else as well.


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## Antonie faz fan (Sep 15, 2014)

EMI said:


> In fact I recorded the first four solves with my friend's camera (the first one only from a distance), and I believe all five solves were recorded by somebody else as well.



this! i was there and witnessed it aswell.


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## tseitsei (Sep 15, 2014)

cubizh said:


> On this "not uploading because..." side topic, I think people should focus more in following the regulations and conduct themselves in an ethical manner above all else.
> If someone points out that there's an irregularity with your solve and you can agree that something is not right, or even if you see it while watching the video yourself, you should be the first to acknowledge it and want to maintain the consistency of the results.
> 
> Being ethical in this sense is to do the right thing even when other people are not looking.
> ...



Ok this isn't the right place for this but I had to answer this (mods feel free to move this discussion somewhere else if you want)

Hypothetical scenario:
At my next comp I will do, let's say, 4BLD NR. Yay! I'm happy and post the video of my solve here. someone notices that it is scrambled wrongly. 
The mistake in the scrambling makes the cube look like just a normal 4x4 scramble too. Nothing lucky or exceptional can be seen, but it is still not the scramble it should.

Now if I understood you correctly you would say that my NR needs to be DNFed?
I can't understand how this could be a case because:
1. I didn't do anything wrong AND
2. I *couldn't have even known* that the scramble should have been different.
3. It didn't affect my solve in any way. It was just another normal scramble. (If my wrongly scrambled cube had something like half the centers solved or else insanely lucky this point is invalid, but this isn't the case here in our scenario).

If you think my solve should be DNFed then please do tell me:
1. What I should/could have done differently during the competition for my solve to be legit or that I would have at least got a new attempt?
2. If answer to the first question is nothing, then tell me how is this situation supposed to be fair? If someone else makes a mistake that I possibly prevent or even know it has happened, and then my solve is DNFed regardless of my actions. Doesn't sound fair to me...


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## ~Adam~ (Sep 15, 2014)

As above.

Hypothetical situation, I get a 3/3 at MBLD and am very happy with the result. I have black instead of white stickers and compare my memo with someone who has the same letter scheme with white on top and green on front compared to my yellow on top and green on front. Our memoed letters don't match. The most likely situation is that my cubes have been scrambled with black on top but all that can be known for sure is that we couldn't both have had the correct scrambles. Should we both be DNFed?


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## PhillipEspinoza (Sep 15, 2014)

There is no inalienable right to video footage of a wr solve, nor is it necessarily a norm that should be required of the competitor himself if only to prove his innocence. Isn't that the point of doing solves in competition is that you have people there to validate the solves and you don't need video footage for its legitimacy? 

Video should not be used to override decisions of judges because if that's the case, why do we even have judges? If this is too much of an issue, there should be a designated person to double-check that the scrambles match the cube and sign off on it (maybe only for Finals and likely WR-setters e.g. Sebastian). After that point, all results should final, regardless of video footage that might show otherwise, unless it can be shown that the scrambler and scramble-checker conspired to cheat in favor of or against the competitor. 

WR-status should not be determined based on scramble accuracy if the scramble in question otherwise follows the standard move-requirements for the given puzzle. IF ANYTHING, the solve should not count towards the person winning the given competition as it would only be unfair to the other competitors present. 

/offtopic


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## Stefan (Sep 15, 2014)

tseitsei said:


> Now if I understood you correctly you would say that my NR needs to be DNFed?



Where did he say anything like that?

Btw, Lucas Etter made his 7.52 video available again. The one with the wrong scramble orientations.



AvGalen said:


> Pyraminx incident lately is the first thing that comes to mind.



The one where the solver made a partial turn during inspection? (I'm quite out of the loop, don't know everything that happens)


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## tseitsei (Sep 15, 2014)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> There is no inalienable right to video footage of a wr solve, nor is it necessarily a norm that should be required of the competitor himself if only to prove his innocence. Isn't that the point of doing solves in competition is that you have people there to validate the solves and you don't need video footage for its legitimacy?
> 
> Video should not be used to override decisions of judges because if that's the case, why do we even have judges? If this is too much of an issue, there should be a designated person to double-check that the scrambles match the cube and sign off on it (maybe only for Finals and likely WR-setters e.g. Sebastian). After that point, all results should final, regardless of video footage that might show otherwise, unless it can be shown that the scrambler and scramble-checker conspired to cheat in favor of or against the competitor.
> 
> ...



Well I actually think that video evidence SHOULD BE USED, but only IF THE COMPETITOR DOES SOMETHING THAT VIOLATES REGULATIONS. 

Because misscrambles and stuff like that is not the fault of the competitor those solves should still be legit.

But mistakes made by the competitor should be pointed out and judged accordingly. For example I think drew brads' pyraminx dnf was right call, because even tough the move in inspection was no doubt accident and no advantage was gained it was still COMPETITORS OWN FAULT and totally prevebtable by competitor himself.


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## spitcuba (Sep 15, 2014)

Ok to clarify some things:

I only knew one person who filmed my solves and I messaged him, but he didn't reply yet and I didn't know that EMI also filmed some solves. I will upload the video as soon as possible.


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## EMI (Sep 15, 2014)

Ok turns out I just filmed two, I thought it was the first four  As long as the other guy didn't delete the videos, they are all on tape though.


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## kcl (Sep 15, 2014)

spitcuba said:


> Ok to clarify some things:
> 
> I only knew one person who filmed my solves and I messaged him, but he didn't reply yet and I didn't know that EMI also filmed some solves. I will upload the video as soon as possible.



lol welcome to Speedsolving, where you cause massive controversy if you don't put up a WR video instantly


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## TDM (Sep 15, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> lol welcome to Speedsolving, where you cause massive controversy if you don't put up a WR video instantly


don't you cause massive controversy if you do put up a WR video instantly too?


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## kcl (Sep 15, 2014)

TDM said:


> don't you cause massive controversy if you do put up a WR video instantly too?



oh wait, you're right 


"Welcome to Speedsolving, where every record broken is analyzed to a point of creating controversy"


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## AvGalen (Sep 15, 2014)

Stefan said:


> Where did he say anything like that?
> 
> Btw, Lucas Etter made his 7.52 video available again. The one with the wrong scramble orientations.
> 
> ...


Yes. That one


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## mark49152 (Sep 16, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> "Welcome to Speedsolving, where every record broken is analyzed to a point of creating controversy"


And if there's nothing to analyze we speculate about controversy instead...


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## Tim Major (Sep 16, 2014)

kclejeune said:


> oh wait, you're right
> 
> 
> "Welcome to Speedsolving, where every record broken is analyzed to a point of creating controversy"



Except it seemed the majority of the speedsolving.com community was against the various DNFs.



tseitsei;1016937
2. I [B said:


> couldn't have even known[/B] that the scramble should have been different.
> 3. It didn't affect my solve in any way. It was just another normal scramble. (If my wrongly scrambled cube had something like half the centers solved or else insanely lucky this point is invalid, but this isn't the case here in our scenario).
> 
> If you think my solve should be DNFed then please do tell me:
> 2. If answer to the first question is nothing, then tell me how is this situation supposed to be fair? If someone else makes a mistake that I possibly prevent or even know it has happened, and then my solve is DNFed regardless of my actions. Doesn't sound fair to me...



This is my concern with the system too. No chance for a resolve. If I get an LL skip but with average F2L on a mjsscramble and it was noticed, the solve would be DNF'd potentially ruining a PB comp average. Not only would I have done nothing wrong, TWO PBs would be taken away without giving me a chance to prove myself on the real scramble. Should we DNF people who get E1/E2 scrambles due to timer malfunctions, as they had different scrambles to other competitors?


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## kcl (Sep 16, 2014)

Tim Major said:


> Except it seemed the majority of the speedsolving.com community was against the various DNFs.
> 
> 
> 
> This is my concern with the system too. No chance for a resolve. If I get an LL skip but with average F2L on a mjsscramble and it was noticed, the solve would be DNF'd potentially ruining a PB comp average. Not only would I have done nothing wrong, TWO PBs would be taken away without giving me a chance to prove myself on the real scramble. Should we DNF people who get E1/E2 scrambles due to timer malfunctions, as they had different scrambles to other competitors?



I never thought of it this way, and I actually really like this argument. If someone's judge messes up and they get a resolve it could easily be a lolscramble. It's not like we dnf it for being e1.


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## kinch2002 (Sep 16, 2014)

I resurrected the video evidence thread so people can discuss there instead of here


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