# Beginners Time.



## PandaCuber (Sep 2, 2011)

Well I havent been cubing for long and I would like to post my times in a place were there arent sub 15 second times lol. 
Average: 50.25
Average of 3: 48.26
Standard Deviation: 5.98
1. 48.99
2. 51.89
3. 44.46
4. 58.13
5. 47.73
6. 58.79 
7. 47.13
8. 43.33
9. 57.80
10. 56.77
11. 41.29
12. 46.71

Can someone tell me if im on the right track?

I did f2l, 2 look oll and 2 look pll. I know about 10 oll's, not much, i know.


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## qqwref (Sep 2, 2011)

You're on the right track if you're improving. And I'd suggest learning 1-look PLL next.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 2, 2011)

qqwref said:


> You're on the right track if you're improving. And I'd suggest learning 1-look PLL next.


 
For me, pll is the hardest of it all.. I dont understand the algorithms.


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## HelpCube (Sep 2, 2011)

PandaCuber said:


> For me, pll is the hardest of it all.. I dont understand the algorithms.


 
you dont have to understand them, just be able to recognize them and execute them from muscle memory. Definately learn it before full oll.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 2, 2011)

HelpCube said:


> you dont have to understand them, just be able to recognize them and execute them from muscle memory. Definately learn it before full oll.


Ohh. well i know more oll than pll so i should flip my whole practice?


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## iEnjoyCubing (Sep 3, 2011)

PandaCuber said:


> Ohh. well i know more oll than pll so i should flip my whole practice?



Yes. It's more beneficial to learn all the PLLs before all the OLLs.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 3, 2011)

iEnjoyCubing said:


> Yes. It's more beneficial to learn all the PLLs before all the OLLs.


 
Okay ill do that. But I dont really understand why PLLs help you more. I dont get it... 

Ps. Sorry for asking newb questions..


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## Carson (Sep 3, 2011)

Posting a breakdown of the times for the steps of your solve could be helpful as well.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 3, 2011)

Carson said:


> Posting a breakdown of the times for the steps of your solve could be helpful as well.


What do you mean? Time seperately my f2l, oll, and pll?


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## Rpotts (Sep 3, 2011)

Yes that is what he means. 
Full PLL is generally more beneficial that full OLL because full PLL is only 21 algs, and you probably already know 4 or 5 of them. Full OLL is 57 algorithms, leaving 47 to be learned. 

Also, 2 look PLL oftentimes will take you more than 2 looks if you don't know a diagonal corner swap alg, or don't know Z/H perms. In the event you get a diagonal swap and only know U and A perms, you'd end up doing 2 A perms and then 2 U perms if you get a Z perm after solving corners. This would give you 4-look PLL and probably take you over 10 seconds. 

2 Look OLL isn't much slower than full OLL, the algorithms are quick and easy so doing F (R U R' U') F' then a sune can be done very quickly. Full OLL will only save you a second or two, whereas full PLL can save you 5 seconds or more at your pace.

To start learning some PLLs you can read my post to easily learn Y, T and J perm while also getting two free OLLs in the process.

Good luck, keep it up, your times will drop if you continue to learn and practice.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 3, 2011)

Rpotts said:


> Yes that is what he means.
> Full PLL is generally more beneficial that full OLL because full PLL is only 21 algs, and you probably already know 4 or 5 of them. Full OLL is 57 algorithms, leaving 47 to be learned.
> 
> Also, 2 look PLL oftentimes will take you more than 2 looks if you don't know a diagonal corner swap alg, or don't know Z/H perms. In the event you get a diagonal swap and only know U and A perms, you'd end up doing 2 A perms and then 2 U perms if you get a Z perm after solving corners. This would give you 4-look PLL and probably take you over 10 seconds.
> ...


 
WOW thanks man!


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## chris410 (Sep 3, 2011)

Check out badmephisto on youtube as well. Rpotts provided excellent advice. 

Do not neglect cross building and f2l cases. Lastly, use the algorithm wiki to find algorithms that may be easier for you to execute. Try to focus on being smooth, try to move at a pace that allows for fewer pauses.


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## inuyasha51089 (Sep 3, 2011)

I have a question to post here as well just out of curiosity. if someone was making these times using the same steps that the store bought rubiks comes with would that be good???


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## uberCuber (Sep 3, 2011)

Rpotts said:


> Also, 2 look PLL oftentimes will take you more than 2 looks if you don't know a diagonal corner swap alg, or don't know Z/H perms.


 
Then you wouldn't know 2-look PLL.... The definition of 2-look PLL is *that it won't take you more than 2 looks.*


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## Cheese11 (Sep 3, 2011)

HelpCube said:


> you dont have to understand them, just be able to recognize them and execute them from muscle memory. Definately learn it before full oll.


 
One should only learn algs if they understand them. For Instance, I wouldn't be learning CMLL right now if I didn't know what it did.


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## Cheese11 (Sep 3, 2011)

inuyasha51089 said:


> I have a question to post here as well just out of curiosity. if someone was making these times using the same steps that the store bought rubiks comes with would that be good???


 
With the method your talking about, I got down to 35 sec. Then dropped the method after a friend showed me Roux. Though there is room for improvement, you are doing quite well. It also depends on how long you've been cubing. It took me a year to get where I was (Note I didn't know about other methods or fingertricks).


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## Yuxuibbs (Sep 3, 2011)

since i went from beginner's to cfop for my last layer i just do cross on yellow so i only have to learn 7 OLLs.... now im stuck with trying to find good algorithms for N and G perms.
when i switched, it took me way more than 4 looks for the last layer because if you get a y perm, you would have to do the u perm twice then do an A perm same thing if you get a T perm. 

my PLLs are under 3 seconds but my OLLs are faster. your times would be slower if you are stuck spending >10 seconds on PLL alone because you don't know full PLL. (btw my last layer fails, average is about 10 seconds)

if you learn OLL first but don't know PLL how are you gonna finish the cube? for me it was easier to learn PLL first than worry about OLL.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 4, 2011)

Carson said:


> Posting a breakdown of the times for the steps of your solve could be helpful as well.


 
OK. 

Scramble: U B2 U' F2 R2 U2 F2 D' R2 U2 R2 B' U' F2 R' F2 R2 L' U F2 D' 

Cross time: 5.34
F2L: 21.08
2 Look OLL: 6.43
Skipped first look of PLL, so PLL: 2.77
If I were to do this without pausing, my time would be: 35.62
I used the same scramble and solved it: 37.99
Paused time betweeen each step: 2.37

Is this any good?
Or is this even what you told me I should do Carson?


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## PandaCuber (Sep 4, 2011)

Cubingthecup said:


> To Pandacuber on his original post.
> 
> Hi Iv'e been using the same method (apart from switching from keyhole to F2l constantly) and started with a time of about 56 seconds, this quickly dropped to 45 then 35, I am now just just finishing learning all the the pll algs and my average has dropped to 28 seconds.So yes you are are on the right track.


 
Thanks!


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## Yuxuibbs (Sep 5, 2011)

PandaCuber said:


> OK.
> 
> Scramble: U B2 U' F2 R2 U2 F2 D' R2 U2 R2 B' U' F2 R' F2 R2 L' U F2 D'
> 
> ...


 
i would suggest doing an average of breakdowns.... but focus on F2L and cross because that's what's killing your time the most.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 5, 2011)

Yuxuibbs said:


> i would suggest doing an average of breakdowns.... but focus on F2L and cross because that's what's killing your time the most.


 
Do you mean average of my f2l and all that stuff? Thanks


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## stoic (Sep 5, 2011)

You should consider joining the race to sub-30 thread


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## PandaCuber (Sep 5, 2011)

ellwd said:


> You should consider joining the race to sub-30 thread


 
Okay, Consider it done.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 5, 2011)

ellwd said:


> You should consider joining the race to sub-30 thread


 
WAIT..How does it work, I dont understand it..


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## Michael Womack (Sep 6, 2011)

good solve between 35-48 sec bad solve 55-1:10.00


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## SpacePanda15 (Sep 6, 2011)

Fellow pandas unite!  lol

Work on F2L, you'll be hearing that until you're sub-15, and then you'll hear it even more! 

And for the race to sub-30 thread, what you do is the person who starts it posts scrambles each week. You use those scrambles and get an average and you post it in the thread. He keeps a list of everyone and you can trackthe progress your making because new scrambles are posted each week!

Good luck and happy cubing!


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## Michael Womack (Sep 6, 2011)

SpacePanda15 said:


> Fellow pandas unite!  lol
> 
> Work on F2L, you'll be hearing that until you're sub-15, and then you'll hear it even more!
> 
> ...


 
i know im learning oll and pll first


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## PandaCuber (Sep 6, 2011)

SpacePanda15 said:


> Fellow pandas unite!  lol
> 
> Work on F2L, you'll be hearing that until you're sub-15, and then you'll hear it even more!
> 
> ...


 
Yeah Im kinda going back and forth betweem F2L and PLL. I hear those are the 2 most important.


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## Cubewarrior (Sep 6, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI1WvD9yUCY
this is how you should learn full fridrich
and learn your algorithms from badmephisto's website because he makes it very easy to learn, or at least easier


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## PandaCuber (Sep 6, 2011)

Cubewarrior said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI1WvD9yUCY
> this is how you should learn full fridrich
> and learn your algorithms from badmephisto's website because he makes it very easy to learn, or at least easier


 
Wow thanks!!


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## DaveyCow (Sep 12, 2011)

PandaCuber said:


> Yeah Im kinda going back and forth betweem F2L and PLL. I hear those are the 2 most important.



F2L is more important imho - at least for noobs (I'm prolly the biggest noob in this forum!) - I personally find a ton of room for improvent in my F2L - many long pauses, meaning that working on look-ahead can significantly decrease my overall solve time.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 12, 2011)

DaveyCow said:


> F2L is more important imho - at least for noobs (I'm prolly the biggest noob in this forum!) - I personally find a ton of room for improvent in my F2L - many long pauses, meaning that working on look-ahead can significantly decrease my overall solve time.


 
Oh yeah what Ive done is that I learn the most important PLL's and now im working on my F2L. 
Before my f2ls were around ~23 and i got ~37 solves(with 4lookPLL)
Now my f2ls are around ~17 and now im getting ~28 averages(fullPLL)

Really, i dont understand how it takes me 10 seconds to do OLL and PLL, but whatever. 

So work on both!


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## JLarsen (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm usually one who stresses the importance of F2L. What exactly do you mean when you say you "did F2L"? Are you just saying you switching from LBL to F2L? I would suggest you just work on solving and practicing with what you know so that you can get a more steady improvement later on. Chances are all the algorithms you are learning now won't fit your preference in the future when your turning preferences become more refined and specific. When I say "steady improvement" I'm talking about this phenomena I seem to see all too often with newcomers, where they learn tons of algorithms in the beginning, and then find themselves running face first into a wall where their F2L is desperately far behind the rest of their solve, and they have to work incredibly hard before they can improve any degree. It's easier to learn some algorithms and practice turning than it is to improve your efficiency or look ahead. That's why I always say you should practice it first, and give yourself a good foundation.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 12, 2011)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> I'm usually one who stresses the importance of F2L. What exactly do you mean when you say you "did F2L"? Are you just saying you switching from LBL to F2L? I would suggest you just work on solving and practicing with what you know so that you can get a more steady improvement later on. Chances are all the algorithms you are learning now won't fit your preference in the future when your turning preferences become more refined and specific. When I say "steady improvement" I'm talking about this phenomena I seem to see all too often with newcomers, where they learn tons of algorithms in the beginning, and then find themselves running face first into a wall where their F2L is desperately far behind the rest of their solve, and they have to work incredibly hard before they can improve any degree. It's easier to learn some algorithms and practice turning than it is to improve your efficiency or look ahead. That's why I always say you should practice it first, and give yourself a good foundation.


 
Who are you talking to? xD
If it's me, then I know intuitive f2l and i havent used the LBL in MONTHS. 
My main focus now is finding better PLL algorithms and my look ahead for F2L. I think my turning speed is too fast and it slows me down,


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## clifford2704 (Sep 12, 2011)

PandaCuber said:


> Who are you talking to? xD
> If it's me, then I know intuitive f2l and i havent used the LBL in MONTHS.
> My main focus now is finding better PLL algorithms and my look ahead for F2L. I think my turning speed is too fast and it slows me down,


 
how is your pb sub 20 if u average like 50s ?


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## yockee (Sep 12, 2011)

PandaCuber said:


> Ohh. well i know more oll than pll so i should flip my whole practice?


 
You definitely should learn full PLL First. It's really very easy to memorize the algs, IF you get GOOD algs. All you have to do is relate them to the correct letter. ( A perm, E perm, etc....) The PLLs are longer algs than OLLs, so it's better to only have to do one. They are much easier to learn than the 57 OLLs. It took me a good part of a year to learn full OLL and PLL. Learn one alg a day. To recognize which PLL case you have, you need to match up the most pieces you can that are grouped together. In other words, if you have 2 blocks of 2 pieces and one block of 3 on another side, you would want to match up the 3 block rather than the 2 blocks of 2, because it's more pieces together. Another example, if you have a block on one side and headlights on another, you would match the block rather than the headlights because the block pieces are together, whereas the headlights are 2 pieces separate from each other. The only one where you can't do this is the E perm because there are no pieces together. I think I have a video of this in my " Fridrich tutorial... sort of, Part 3 or 4" I forget which one. I believe it's part 3 because part 4 is about G perms. Anyway, it's easy to memorize an alg when its matched to a letter. With the OLLs, you only have a picture to recognize on the U face, and there can be slight differences that are hard to notice.


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## yockee (Sep 12, 2011)

PandaCuber said:


> Wow thanks!!


 
Sorry man, but 5 AC is no way to learn LL algs. THey're ok for helping with F2L, although they no longer make videos, but with LL, they just say, go here or here. The separate members do have algs on their main channels, but a lot of the algs suck. Also, Badmephisto has very helpful videos, but the algs on his website are horrible and outdated. I've switched algs quite a bit over the past 2 years, and believe I have a decent collection. I'll link you to my PLLs in case you'd like to check them out. The video quality isn't good, but you can see what I'm doing. I will also link you to my Fridrich tutorial (sort of). 

PLL part 1 ( A - G ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXoh5yRckHY

PLL part 2 ( H - Z ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZXlmmGCAE0

Fridrich cross video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6vFLVVa4Rg&list=PLC51152678D3DA351&index=4

F2L: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRKjwV9xeAU&list=PLC51152678D3DA351&index=3

LL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBh8VuAKxjI&list=PLC51152678D3DA351&index=2

About G and N perms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47dSR2SSJ90&list=PLC51152678D3DA351&index=1

Hope this helps.


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## PandaCuber (Sep 13, 2011)

clifford2704 said:


> how is your pb sub 20 if u average like 50s ?


 
I average 30 now and my sub 20 pb, i got an x-cross and a pll skip so it was all lucky xD


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## PandaCuber (Sep 13, 2011)

yockee said:


> Sorry man, but 5 AC is no way to learn LL algs. THey're ok for helping with F2L, although they no longer make videos, but with LL, they just say, go here or here. The separate members do have algs on their main channels, but a lot of the algs suck. Also, Badmephisto has very helpful videos, but the algs on his website are horrible and outdated. I've switched algs quite a bit over the past 2 years, and believe I have a decent collection. I'll link you to my PLLs in case you'd like to check them out. The video quality isn't good, but you can see what I'm doing. I will also link you to my Fridrich tutorial (sort of).
> 
> PLL part 1 ( A - G ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXoh5yRckHY
> 
> ...


 
Even better lol. Lots to learn.. Now im about 75% done with PLL so ive been working on my F2L.
Trying to get that sub 13.


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## JLarsen (Sep 14, 2011)

PandaCuber said:


> Who are you talking to? xD
> If it's me, then I know intuitive f2l and i havent used the LBL in MONTHS.
> My main focus now is finding better PLL algorithms and my look ahead for F2L. I think my turning speed is too fast and it slows me down,


 I figured it was implied I was talking to the OP. Have you considered working on the efficiency of your solutions?


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## PandaCuber (Sep 14, 2011)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> I figured it was implied I was talking to the OP. Have you considered working on the efficiency of your solutions?


 
Um.. what does that mean?


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