# 2-look LS+LL combinations



## aronpm (Apr 17, 2012)

Below is a list of the piece-solving combinations that I could think of for 2-look LS+LL. There is a CFOP list and a ZZ list (which doesn't include EO because it's already done)


Spoiler: LSLL





```
edge+corner eo+co+ep+cp = F2L + 1LLL

edge+corner+eo co+ep+cp = ZBF2L + ZBLL
edge+corner+co eo+ep+cp = WV + COALL
edge+corner+ep eo+co+cp = ? + ?
edge+corner+cp eo+co+ep = ? + ?

edge+corner+eo+co ep+cp = LSOLL(lol) + PLL
edge+corner+ep+cp eo+co = LSPLL(lol) + pure OLL(lol)
edge+corner+eo+ep co+cp = LSELL(lol) + L4C
edge+corner+co+cp eo+ep = LSCLL(lol) + ELL
edge+corner+eo+cp ep+co = ? + 2GLL
edge+corner+co+ep eo+cp = ? + ? 

edge+eo+ep corner+co+cp = ? + ?
edge+eo+co corner+ep+cp = ? + ?

corner+co+cp edge+eo+ep = ? + ?
corner+co+eo edge+ep+cp = ? + ?

with ZZ
edge+corner co+ep+cp = F2L + ZBLL
edge+corner+co ep+cp = WV + PLL
edge+corner+ep co+cp = ? + L4C
edge+corner+cp co+ep = ? + 2GLL

edge+corner+ep+cp co = LSPLL(lol) + CO
edge+corner+co+cp ep = LSCOLL(lol) + EPLL
edge+corner+co+ep cp = ? + CPLL 

edge+ep corner+co+cp = ? + ?
edge+co corner+ep+cp = ? + ?

corner+co+cp edge+ep = ? + ?
corner+co edge+cp+ep = CLS + ?
```
Combinations such as corner+ep edge+co+cp are missing because solving ep/cp before the edge/corner (respectively) would result in also solving the edge/corner, being equivalent to an earlier combination


Note that it does not include 3-look methods such as MGLS or "JSF2L".

I'm by no means claiming that this is an exhaustive list. If I have any naming mistakes or combinations that should be added please inform me.

As a result, I do not think there exist any valuable 2-look LS+LL methods, and by extension alternative 3-look LS+LL methods (alternative to LS+OLL+PLL or LS+CLL+ELL. LS+OLLCP+EPLL is iffy). The only one which I think is even close to decent is ZZ+WV+PLL, but I don't think that ZZ is worthwhile.


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## Kirjava (Apr 17, 2012)

zomg you just invented so many methods

>_>

ty for posting


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## Pyjam (Apr 17, 2012)

And also : egde+corner+partial_ep + co+ep+cp = F2L with phasing + ZZLL

For F2L with phasing in 1-look, see Nick Vu's method.


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## Stefan (Apr 17, 2012)

aronpm said:


> I do not think there exist any valuable 2-look LS+LL methods, and by extension alternative 3-look LS+LL methods (alternative to LS+OLL+PLL or LS+CLL+ELL. LS+OLLCP+EPLL is iffy).


 
What about Heise or Snyder2?

I never quite understood Heise, but in Snyder2, I like that in the third to last and the second to last step you choose among four different subgoals (choose which LL edge you solve while solving LS, then choose which LL corner you solve while solving LL edges) and can pick the "easiest".


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## Godmil (Apr 17, 2012)

In Heise you do most of the last layer edges before doing last 5 corners in 2 looks. So 3 looks I think.

Great post Aronpm, I agree completely.


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## CubeRoots (Apr 17, 2012)

aronpm said:


> The only one which I think is even close to decent is ZZ+WV+PLL, but I don't think that ZZ is worthwhile.



ZZ + WV + PLL is what i've switched to from 3 look LL CFOP. But what makes you think that ZZ isn't worthwhile?

I believe Rowe Hessler and others are working on a WV-like thing for OLL during inserting final f2l pair. (called RLS? i dunno). CFOP -> RLS + PLL = ZZ-> WV + PLL?

A way around pursuing ZZ


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## Kirjava (Apr 17, 2012)

Godmil said:


> In Heise you do most of the last layer edges before doing last 5 corners in 2 looks. So 3 looks I think.


 
I swear that barely anyone knows what Heise actually is... >_>


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## Godmil (Apr 17, 2012)

Damn, I knew something was wrong, of course you do the two corners with the edges, then end in 3 corners. Silly me.


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## IAmAPerson (Aug 3, 2015)

*LS+LL methods?*

This didn't really fit anywhere else, but what all LS+LL methods can you think of (even ones that aren't even in use)? Here are some I've thought of: 
OLL+PLL
CLL+ELL
VHLS+OCLL+ELL 
ZBLS+ZBLL
VLS+PLL
CPEOLL+2GLL
VHLS+CPLL+2GLL
VHLS+COLL+EPLL
WV+CPELL
EPLS+OLLCP


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## Berd (Aug 3, 2015)

IAmAPerson said:


> This didn't really fit anywhere else, but what all LS+LL methods can you think of (even ones that aren't even in use)? Here are some I've thought of:
> OLL+PLL
> CLL+ELL
> VHLS+OCLL+ELL
> ...


What's the difference between VHLS and ZBLS?


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## rubikmaster (Aug 3, 2015)

Berd said:


> What's the difference between VHLS and ZBLS?



VHLS orients LL edges while *inserting* the last F2L pair. ZBLS orients LL edges while *solving* the last F2L pair, it doesn't require the the pieces to already be paired up, which is why it has a lot more cases.


Also, here's one more LS+LL combination: LPELL+L4C

Although, algs for full LPELL don't even exist yet. I'm actually planning on publishing them soon.


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## willtri4 (Aug 3, 2015)

Berd said:


> What's the difference between VHLS and ZBLS?



With VHLS you form the pair, then use an alg to insert it and orient edges. A ZBLS alg forms the pair, inserts is, and orients edges. VHLS is a subset of ZBLS.

Edit: Ninja'd


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## IAmAPerson (Aug 3, 2015)

Berd said:


> What's the difference between VHLS and ZBLS?


ZBLS will solve last slot and last layer EO from any of the possible 50+ F2L cases, but has 400+ algorithms. VHLS is much less algorithmic with only 16 algs + mirrors, but will only work from a U R U' R' or R U R' insertion. I know most of VHLS. Very easy and helpful.


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## Petro Leum (Aug 3, 2015)

phasing + zzll


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## oll+phase+sync (Aug 11, 2015)

IAmAPerson said:


> This didn't really fit anywhere else, but what all LS+LL methods can you think of (even ones that aren't even in use)? Here are some I've thought of:
> OLL+PLL
> CLL+ELL
> VHLS+OCLL+ELL
> ...



Something I use for LS-Corner already placed, but LS-Edge somwhere on U-layer.

1) CLL + 2) Solve F2L-Edge and one LL-Edge + 3) Last 3 Edges 
The algs for 2) and 3) are almost the same, and edge 3-cycles (~75%) are pretty fast to execute

If CLL solves an edge, you can replace 2) and 3) with conjugate + ELL (since I don't know full ELL, I don't know if the recognition is doable)


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## JackJ (Aug 11, 2015)

Ahem... Anthony Brooks and I indepently came up with one. It's called JJLS, the more usual subset is BLE (Brooks Last Edge) and can be found on Anthony's website. There's also a link in my signature.


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## DizzypheasantZZ (Aug 11, 2015)

IAmAPerson said:


> ZBLS will solve last slot and last layer EO from any of the possible 50+ F2L cases, but has 400+ algorithms. VHLS is much less algorithmic with only 16 algs + mirrors, but will only work from a U R U' R' or R U R' insertion. I know most of VHLS. Very easy and helpful.



There are only 41 F2L cases.

Also, which one do you think is the best?
ZZ- Phasing + ZZLL
CFOP- VLS/RLS + ZBLL


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## TDM (Aug 11, 2015)

DizzypheasantZZ said:


> CFOP- VLS/RLS + ZBLL


VLS/RLS finish with PLL, not ZBLL.


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## IAmAPerson (Aug 11, 2015)

DizzypheasantZZ said:


> Which one do you think is the best?
> ZZ- Phasing + ZZLL
> CFOP- VLS/RLS + *PLL*



If I had to choose of the two, I'd choose ZZ-b. My personal preference (if I bothered to learn the algs) would be ZB (Cross - F2L minus 1 slot - ZBLS - ZBLL).


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## oll+phase+sync (Aug 12, 2015)

*Last 2 Layers EP5*



JackJ said:


> Ahem... Anthony Brooks and I indepently came up with one. It's called JJLS, the more usual subset is BLE (Brooks Last Edge) and can be found on Anthony's website. There's also a link in my signature.



Hijacking your 1st Step:

1. LS-Corner + EO
2. COLL
3. Last 5 Edges

Last 5 Edges is mostly U-, Z-, H-Perm variations and just 6 new algs (with pretty good recognition)
The LS-Corner+EO Step can also be shortened, bcause ther is no real need to orient the F2L edge - instead use the mirrored Last 5 edges algs.


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## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2015)

One of the problems with LS/LL variants is that unless you force your last slot to always be FR, you need to mirror the LS part four ways (assuming rotation defeats the purpose). Which of the alg sets mentioned here are practical to do that with?


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## OLLiver (Aug 12, 2015)

most decent speedcubers finish with the FR or sometimes FB as LS


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## shadowslice e (Aug 12, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> One of the problems with LS/LL variants is that unless you force your last slot to always be FR, you need to mirror the LS part four ways (assuming rotation defeats the purpose). Which of the alg sets mentioned here are practical to do that with?



If you do Eo first you don't have to mirror so if you reply want only 1 LS I would learn Eo first


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## United Thought (Aug 12, 2015)

What about WV + PLLEF? (Only works for 0 oriented edges.)


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## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2015)

OLLiver said:


> most decent speedcubers finish with the FR or sometimes FB as LS


Most decent speedcubers can solve to any slot even if they try to finish on FR (and I assume you mean BR).



shadowslice e said:


> If you do Eo first you don't have to mirror so if you reply want only 1 LS I would learn Eo first


I don't get that. How does EO influence which slot you finish on?


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## DizzypheasantZZ (Aug 12, 2015)

TDM said:


> VLS/RLS finish with PLL, not ZBLL.



Yeah I didn't think about that, meant PLL


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## shadowslice e (Aug 12, 2015)

mark49152 said:


> I don't get that. How does EO influence which slot you finish on?



it doesn't but if you do eo the last pair can only face in one direction relative to the last slot so you can remove one mirror and therefore the number of cases.

In addition, the last slot can also be rotated to FR and still be exactly the same no matter which slot it is inserted into.

however, regarding the bit above, I would agree that most speed cubers should be able to insert into different slots but this could be solved with a rotation rather than mirroring most of the time


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## Petro Leum (Aug 12, 2015)

shadowslice e said:


> it doesn't but if you do eo the last pair can only face in one direction relative to the last slot so you can remove one mirror and therefore the number of cases.
> 
> In addition, the last slot can also be rotated to FR and still be exactly the same no matter which slot it is inserted into.
> 
> however, regarding the bit above, I would agree that most speed cubers should be able to insert into different slots but this could be solved with a rotation rather than mirroring most of the time



wrong


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## mark49152 (Aug 12, 2015)

shadowslice e said:


> it doesn't but if you do eo the last pair can only face in one direction relative to the last slot so you can remove one mirror and therefore the number of cases.


OK, you reduce the number of cases, at the cost of expending some moves on EO, but for each case you still need to be able to solve to any of the four slots (assuming rotation defeats the purpose).


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## IAmAPerson (Aug 12, 2015)

United Thought said:


> What about WV + PLLEF? (Only works for 0 oriented edges.)


There's actually a LSLL method that stems off of winter variation: WV + COALL. There are <160 cases, I think. 

EDIT: I can't seem to find algs for COALL/CPELL. Should I take on the task of generating them myself?


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## Berkmann18 (Aug 20, 2015)

IAmAPerson said:


> There's actually a LSLL method that stems off of winter variation: WV + COALL. There are <160 cases, I think.
> 
> EDIT: I can't seem to find algs for COALL/CPELL. Should I take on the task of generating them myself?



CPELL can be found on sarah.cubing.net


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## supercavitation (Aug 21, 2015)

Berkmann18 said:


> CPELL can be found on sarah.cubing.net
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk



I also have algs, though most of mine suck.


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## xitvono (Aug 23, 2015)

Sarah's site has OLLCP algs for when the corners are oriented, not CPELL algs.


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## IAmAPerson (Aug 23, 2015)

What's kinda sad about CPELL is that only the ELLs can be 2-gen (<M, U>).


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## shadowslice e (Aug 27, 2015)

TCLL+L5E? (sort of falls under this category but it really depends on what you would call a LS/LL, could be a double LS in a way)

Variants: 
ZZ: Most efficient way, edges already oriented, you could in theory one look this but it would be kind of hard to do it quickly (recog CLS, recog L5E (all oriented), perhaps I'll call this ZZLL-SS ;-P)
CFOP: partial cross, solve 3 pairs+1 edge
The method I described in the new method/substep/concept thread, sort of heise (MCELL)
Petrus: insert 1 pair rather than building a 1x2x2 to make an F2L-1
Roux: Basically turns it into a FreeFop variant. CLS replaces CMLL. L5E
Basically another method you would care to think of as well as long as it has something of an F2L (ie. No corners first etc)


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## ottozing (Aug 27, 2015)

VLS pls


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