# T-Perm Addiction



## nitrocan (Feb 6, 2009)

I, for some reason, do at least 10 T-Perms when I get a cube. It doesn't even matter the size. I sometimes even do the R turns as Rw turns and it gives different configurations etc. 

Does this happen to you too? If so, how often? 

EDIT: How do I edit a poll? (I think it's impossible?) The last one will be "I don't do..."


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## CAT13 (Feb 6, 2009)

I do a lot of T-perms on new cubes. but I don't get cubes very often


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## julesv (Feb 6, 2009)

T-Perm??!! Whatever, I'm guessing there really useful. Can someone tell me a link?


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## Dene (Feb 6, 2009)

I found that the first thing I did when I tried other peoples cubes was the T perm. When I got my new cube the other day I spent hours testing the tension with the T perm.


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## Waynilein (Feb 6, 2009)

T-perms are too monotonous. I test cubes with a T, then J, then U perm. ^^


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 6, 2009)

If you're using T-perms to test a cube, you simply _have_ to do them an even number of times - otherwise it's not solved!


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## Lofty (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm not addicted to the T perm Im addicted to the H perm. Its the only 2H alg im decently fast at, like .8 or so.


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## Kian (Feb 6, 2009)

i can't control myself. old cube or new, I execute t-perms all day.


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## (X) (Feb 6, 2009)

I usually do j perms or y perms, they feel most natural to me


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## Sa967St (Feb 6, 2009)

I prefer both of the J's since my T is a bit slower than them.


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## Garmon (Feb 6, 2009)

T then H then J then U then my slow Y perm, that is what happened when I got my last cube.


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## Dene (Feb 6, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> If you're using T-perms to test a cube, you simply _have_ to do them an even number of times - otherwise it's not solved!



Not necessarily! My cube wasn't stickered for quite a while, and if I messed up I didn't have to fix it


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## Odin (Feb 6, 2009)

I don't do much T-Perms, I believe the Sexy Move is way better for "testing" out a cube.


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## Samlambert (Feb 6, 2009)

I usually do a few Ts, a few Ys, some R U R' U' and some R' F R U', that pretty much do it.


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## person917 (Feb 6, 2009)

Every time I test out a new cube I do Ts and Ys


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## DavidWoner (Feb 6, 2009)

Dene said:


> Mike Hughey said:
> 
> 
> > If you're using T-perms to test a cube, you simply _have_ to do them an even number of times - otherwise it's not solved!
> ...



Yeah, and I usually do a T-J-U cycle, so I can get away with only doing one.

A friend of mine can not pick up a cube without doing Dan Knights Z-perm.


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## nitrocan (Feb 6, 2009)

Odin said:


> I don't do much T-Perms, I believe the Sexy Move is way better for "testing" out a cube.



There is a sexy move in the T-Perm as well


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## qqwref (Feb 6, 2009)

I guess I am alone then, I DON'T do T-perms to test a cube. In fact I don't just blindly do any type of perms, what I usually do is do a 2gen scramble and solve, which tests out tension, friction, corner cutting, and so on, all at once. It's also a good test of how good a cube is for F2L, which is much more important to me than being able to do specific permutations fast. For bigcubes the first thing I go for is <Rw,U> fingertricks.

I think the T-perm thing ties into one thing I think is really annoying: when I give someone a cube to try and say it's "delicate", and then they pop it within three seconds. I always tell them that it is their responsibility to find the pieces, clean them off, and put it back together. Stop doing T perms, guys. I'm completely serious. If you do your fastest algorithm, all you're going to identify is cubes that fit what you're expecting when you do that algorithm, rather than cubes you can do good F2L (or whatever) on. And if the cube is a bit loose or you have to be careful with it, all you're going to end up doing is locking up and having a pop, and (in case you couldn't tell) the person who owns the cube usually does NOT appreciate that. Believe it or not, some cubes are good for things other than corner cutting at 10+ TPM.


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## Kit Clement (Feb 6, 2009)

I do them out of habit when I'm holding a cube. Not just the T-perm though, I do the R-perm a lot though. Not so much to test the cube, more to just keep my fingers busy. >.>


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## Kian (Feb 6, 2009)

qqwref said:


> I guess I am alone then, I DON'T do T-perms to test a cube. In fact I don't just blindly do any type of perms, what I usually do is do a 2gen scramble and solve, which tests out tension, friction, corner cutting, and so on, all at once. It's also a good test of how good a cube is for F2L, which is much more important to me than being able to do specific permutations fast. For bigcubes the first thing I go for is <Rw,U> fingertricks.
> 
> I think the T-perm thing ties into one thing I think is really annoying: when I give someone a cube to try and say it's "delicate", and then they pop it within three seconds. I always tell them that it is their responsibility to find the pieces, clean them off, and put it back together. Stop doing T perms, guys. I'm completely serious. If you do your fastest algorithm, all you're going to identify is cubes that fit what you're expecting when you do that algorithm, rather than cubes you can do good F2L (or whatever) on. And if the cube is a bit loose or you have to be careful with it, all you're going to end up doing is locking up and having a pop, and (in case you couldn't tell) the person who owns the cube usually does NOT appreciate that. Believe it or not, some cubes are good for things other than corner cutting at 10+ TPM.



well i certainly agree. i don't think there's any better way to test a cube than to solve it a few times.

that being said, i execute t-perms on any cube i'm holding and not actively solving, really. it just love how smooth it is.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 6, 2009)

Actually, I'm not that fast at T-perms. In fact, I'm outrageously slow at them on a 2x2x2 (usually greater than 5 seconds). I'm not quite that bad at 3x3x3; it's one of my faster PLLs, but certainly not the fastest, and I'm still amazingly slow compared to a REAL speedcuber. Nonetheless, I know that I often use them when testing out a cube. I distinctly remember that when Rowe handed me a hybrid he had just put together, I definitely did a couple of T-perms. However, that being said, I must admit I did them rather slowly and carefully (I've seen how easily his cubes pop!).

I think one of the reasons I do T-perms is because I use them for parity on most BLD solves (and for corner parity on ALL big cube BLD solves). So it's a comfortable thing to try that has some meaning to me. Or maybe I just do it because a T-perm is fun (even if I'm slow at it).


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## nitrocan (Feb 7, 2009)

It's so much different for me, I can go 5-10 minutes just T-Perming while talking to someone. I can stop when it pops


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Feb 7, 2009)

lol, funny topic,
I test cubes with T-perms and V-perms to get a feel for them, also I do them when i pick up cubes before averages and stuff


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## Dene (Feb 7, 2009)

qqwref said:


> I guess I am alone then, I DON'T do T-perms to test a cube. In fact I don't just blindly do any type of perms, what I usually do is do a 2gen scramble and solve, which tests out tension, friction, corner cutting, and so on, all at once. It's also a good test of how good a cube is for F2L, which is much more important to me than being able to do specific permutations fast. For bigcubes the first thing I go for is <Rw,U> fingertricks.
> 
> I think the T-perm thing ties into one thing I think is really annoying: when I give someone a cube to try and say it's "delicate", and then they pop it within three seconds. I always tell them that it is their responsibility to find the pieces, clean them off, and put it back together. Stop doing T perms, guys. I'm completely serious. If you do your fastest algorithm, all you're going to identify is cubes that fit what you're expecting when you do that algorithm, rather than cubes you can do good F2L (or whatever) on. And if the cube is a bit loose or you have to be careful with it, all you're going to end up doing is locking up and having a pop, and (in case you couldn't tell) the person who owns the cube usually does NOT appreciate that. Believe it or not, some cubes are good for things other than corner cutting at 10+ TPM.



And what if you do not want to test out how nice the cube is for F2L, but you want to test how good it is for the LL?
What an ignorant perspective.


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## fanwuq (Feb 7, 2009)

This is what I do in order of importance and frequency:

1. Uccw
2. MU Z
3. RU Z, Ucw
4. T 
5. Y, both J, both R, H
6. both A, F, V, G
7. both N
I never practice E

I do these on my main cube when I'm bored. 
I test out new cubes with averages of 5 or more.


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## IamWEB (Feb 7, 2009)

T, J, U, Y, and surprisingly, V.

I love them all, and they all love me.

T's my wife, but I cheat on her with J too. She doesn't mind though, we're the official ones, not J and I.


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## Scigatt (Feb 7, 2009)

I used to do T a lot, but now I do R(a) and my own LUF Z perm[(L' U' L2) F (L' U' L' U' L) U2 (L F' L' U') (L' U2 L)]


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## rahulkadukar (Feb 7, 2009)

julesv said:


> T-Perm??!! Whatever, I'm guessing there really useful. Can someone tell me a link?



A T-perm swaps two corners and two edges. These four pieces form a *T*

I do it in two ways:

U' L2 D F2 D' L2 B2 D R2 D' B2

R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'


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## Ellis (Feb 7, 2009)

rahulkadukar said:


> julesv said:
> 
> 
> > T-Perm??!! Whatever, I'm guessing there really useful. Can someone tell me a link?
> ...



The first one isn't a t-perm. Why would need need a second t-perm anyway?


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## trying-to-speedcube... (Feb 7, 2009)

Ellis said:


> rahulkadukar said:
> 
> 
> > julesv said:
> ...


FMC, optimal algs.


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## Ellis (Feb 7, 2009)

Ok, that makes sense. I don't do fewest moves. But that still isn't a T-perm


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## blah (Feb 7, 2009)

Ellis said:


> rahulkadukar said:
> 
> 
> > julesv said:
> ...



What the hell is wrong with me?! Someone tells me it isn't a T perm, but my subconscious just refuses to believe it, and my fingers get itchy and I just _have_ to try out that alg to see if it's really not a T perm, and I end up having a super stiff scrambled cube, and then I have to go through the agony of solving that stupid stiff cube.

Anyone else has the same problem with itchy fingers?


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## Ellis (Feb 7, 2009)

blah said:


> What the hell is wrong with me?! Someone tells me it isn't a T perm, but my subconscious just refuses to believe it, and my fingers get itchy and I just _have_ to try out that alg to see if it's really not a T perm, and I end up having a super stiff scrambled cube, and then I have to go through the agony of solving that stupid stiff cube.
> 
> Anyone else has the same problem with itchy fingers?



I do, that's why I had to try that algorithm

You got a fair warning though that it wasn't a t-perm, but I guess that's what made them itchy.


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## rahulkadukar (Feb 7, 2009)

Ellis said:


> rahulkadukar said:
> 
> 
> > julesv said:
> ...



The first one is U' L2 D F2 D' L2 B2 D' R2 D B2

Sorry for the mistake


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## 04mucklowd (Feb 22, 2009)

Love the t-perm
but H is my favourite


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## ChromisElda (Feb 23, 2009)

Yeah my J's are faster than my T, but I love them both, usually perform them nonstop when I don't feel like unsolving my cube but still doing something.


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## Paul Wagner (Feb 23, 2009)

t<3's are amazing


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## endless_akatsuki (Feb 23, 2009)

t-perms all day...


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## AvGalen (Feb 23, 2009)

To change the poll, all I had to do was click the "Edit poll" on the top-right of the poll



Mike Hughey said:


> Actually, I'm not that fast at T-perms. In fact, I'm outrageously slow at them on a 2x2x2 (usually greater than 5 seconds).


Why do T-Perm on 2x2x2? Just do J or A

And I don't do T-Perm. I do sexy moves ....... again and again and again ....... until it's done

And if I liked it I will test the rest of the cube by doing a full scramble/solve


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## Hadley4000 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ugh. I hate T perm!


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## Jhong253 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hadley4000 said:


> Ugh. I hate T perm!



Ugh, so do I. The T-Perm I memorized (without thinking...  ) is ridiculously difficult to do (for me) because I have to do all this Ds and Bs. Any one got a relatively short T-perm that uses Us,Rs,Fs, or Ls only?


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## Unknown.soul (Feb 23, 2009)

The "standard" T-perm:
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'


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## Jhong253 (Feb 23, 2009)

Wow, 14 moves! The thing I memorized was U R2 U' R2 D B2 L2 U L2 D' B2, only 11. I guess it's always short and tough or long and easy


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## ISuckAtCubing (Feb 24, 2009)

man i love the t-perm, i do that everyday, if i have nothing to do with a cube, i would do a t-prem, when i get really bored, i do the t-prem, it is just so fun to do and almost no regrip


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## EmersonHerrmann (Feb 24, 2009)

I solve the cube when I get it.


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## JTW2007 (Feb 24, 2009)

Normally I test out a cube with a lot of Ts, Ys, Js, Us, Hs, Rs, and R' F R U' (x6).


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## TurbulentTurtle (Feb 24, 2009)

EmersonHerrmann said:


> I solve the cube when I get it.


Really, that is odd... I smash mine with a hammer when I get it.


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## holypasta (Apr 7, 2009)

i'm always doing U, H, and Z.


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## mcciff2112 (Apr 7, 2009)

TurbulentTurtle said:


> EmersonHerrmann said:
> 
> 
> > I solve the cube when I get it.
> ...



I heard that really loosens it up


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## toast (Apr 7, 2009)

Jhong253 said:


> Wow, 14 moves! The thing I memorized was U R2 U' R2 D B2 L2 U L2 D' B2, only 11. I guess it's always short and tough or long and easy



R2 u' R2 u R2 y' L2 u L2 u' L2 U

is 11-12 moves, I think it's pretty fingertricky.


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