# Seven Towns vs. Dayan - Color Scheme Copyright Infringment



## Pixel 6 (Jan 11, 2012)

*Update Feb. 7, 2012: See this post.*

Hi everyone,

I just received word that Seven Towns, the people behind the Rubik's Cube brand, have gone after Dayan for copyright infringement on stickers.

The color scheme that Rubik's has Copyrights to, is: White - Yellow, Blue - Green, Red - Orange. More specifically, when these colors are used on a cube, in the RWB clockwise configuration, it then represents the Rubik's copyright image. So the image (logo or brand recognized image) is what's the issue here.

If anyone recalls the Japanese color scheme, this issue has happened before. The solution at that time was to use the same colors as Rubik's, but configure them in a different order... Blue - White, Red - Orange, Green - Yellow. But now it looks like Dayan has chosen to comply to Seven Town's request to change their colors. Orange, will now be replaced with Purple.

Here's a quick video Ben and I put together on this topic:






Hard link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu160VfsaZk&feature=g-all-u&context=G210569fFAAAAAAAAAAA

So, it looks like they will now be stickering all their cubes with Purple replacing Orange. I'm not sure if Seven Towns has approached other companies with this same concern, but it looks like Dayan is not going to fight it.

Being that Dayan is quickly taking over the popularity of the cubing world, I think it's a good choice for them to comply, and keep their designs coming in.

So, what does this mean to cubing? Lots of questions to be answered.

Since Dayan makes the stickerless cubes, will they be coming out with a multi-color cube using Purple plastic rather than orange? 

Will they still be manufacturing orange stickers that can be purchased separate to their cubes?

Will other cube companies succumb to this same issue?

Will the Japanese color scheme also remove Orange, and go with Purple?

This is not the first time a company has gone after Dayan, and I'm sure it will not be the last. 

Please keep comments on this topic constructive, and try to come up constructive ideas, comments, and simply address the concerns that this issue may cause people.

- Pixel -

Edit 1: An interesting related article: Cube knockoffs


Spoiler



By JAMES HOOKWAY


Watch some of the top competitors at the 2011 World Rubik's Cube Championship in Bangkok, Thailand.

BANGKOK—World champion Michal Pleskowicz presents a puzzle to makers of the Rubik's Cube.

The Polish teenager recently won his title in Thailand, lining up all six colors on all six sides of the cube-shaped toy in an average time of 8.65 seconds. "We can't compete with that," griped Chrisi Trussell, vice president of Rubik's Cube's distributor, Seven Towns Ltd.

Enlarge Image

James Hookway / The Wall Street Journal
Rowe Hessler in Bangkok at the Rubik's Cube championship in October.

One reason Mr. Pleskowicz and a new generation of Rubik's fanatics can solve the notoriously difficult puzzle in record time: They don't use Rubik's Cubes at all, instead substituting souped-up Chinese knockoffs engineered for speed.

The spread of these black-market cubes challenges the London-based company with a marketing brain teaser. Should Seven Towns crack down on the pirated toys? Or piggyback on the phenomenon of competitive speed-cubing?

Hungarian inventor Erno Rubik's famous mechanical puzzle has gained a second wind in recent years. Silicon Valley entrepreneurs have adopted it as a symbol of geek chic. Celebrities including Justin Bieber and Will Smith show off their cube-solving skills.

The crème de la crème of the new wave, though, compete to solve the three-dimensional puzzle in the fastest time possible. They rely on high-performance copies bought online from underground Chinese designers.

Seven Towns doesn't want these ersatz cubes elbowing into the broader market; the closely held company sells about 10 million Rubik's Cubes annually.

But the firm also sees how the spread of the turbocharged competition is boosting the popularity of the toy, which has sold an estimated 350 million units since it was introduced to the world in 1980.

The pirated cubes are almost frictionless and bear as much resemblance to genuine Rubik's Cubes as Nascar hot-rods to family sedans. The blocks are sanded or configured to barely touch. This avoids cubes getting stuck during competitions, a dreaded hitch known by cubers as getting "locked."

Many top competitors use cubes from Chinese designer Bao Daqinq. Online favorites carry such names as the Zhanchi, or "spread wings," and the Guhong, "Lone Goose." Aficionados eagerly review and debate attributes of the models online in sites devoted to the practice. Mr. Bao declined to comment.

The company is waging a complex cat-and-mouse legal battle with its Chinese competitors, spending $500,000 a year in legal fees to defend its global trademark and stop unauthorized cubes from reaching brick-and-mortar stores.

David Hedley Jones, the company's business development director, belongs to a European Union-China group on copyright infringement, trying to slow the spread of contraband cubes in Europe. "We really spend a lot of time on this," he said.

Seven Towns sponsors the speed-cubing world championships—an evolving showcase for knockoffs—to generate publicity for the real deal. "There's a balance to be struck, but I think it's working," said Mike Moody, Seven Towns' managing director.

Many competitors fiddle constantly to build up dexterity and wear down stock cubes so they turn faster. "It takes about a month to break in a brand-new Rubik's Cube," said 23-year-old Australian Tim McMahon. Veterans describe a repetitive strain condition as "Rubik's thumb," developed from trying to speed-solve standard-issue cubes.

In the early days of speed-cubing—the 1980s—pioneers first pried open cubes, sanded corners and greased joints with globs of petroleum jelly to allow faster, smoother moves. The Internet opened new possibilities.

"The ones you buy online come with springs and screws so you can adjust them," said former world champion Breandan Vallance from Scotland, who took up cubing to travel the world. "There's less friction because there is less contact area between the surfaces, even if they do sometimes fall apart."

One price of speed, apparently, is reliability. A competitor at the Bangkok championships suffered a major breakdown when his cube "popped" in one heat, scattering dozens of pieces across the stage.

Competitors prepared for the Bangkok finals like professional athletes. During the contest, many avoided eye contact with rivals and fidgeted with their speed cubes, building up rhythm and speed as they rattled through 50 or more memorized sequences of moves. There are, say mathematicians, 43 quintillion possible combinations.

Some wore headphones and listened to techno music. Mr. Pleskowicz, the 19-year-old world champion, prefers Metallica. "It helps build up the speed," he said.

There are deviant competitions, including five-by-five and eight-by-eight cubes. Some compete blindfolded, one-handed or try to see who requires the fewest possible moves. Researchers using computers at Google Inc. last year calculated the absolute minimum was 20 moves.

Istvan Kocza from Hungary employed 22 moves at a contest in the Czech Republic last year. "That was due to a very fortunate scramble that nobody had ever seen before," he said.

In Budapest, meanwhile, the reclusive Mr. Rubik, 67 years old, is working on a new solution to the marketing problem—his own version of the speed cubes to compete with the Chinese.

No rush, though. "We've been working on it for five years," said Janos Kovacs, chief executive at the puzzle-master's Rubik Studio design firm.


Edit 2: From the Rubik's cube website: Protecting Rubik's intellectual property


Spoiler



Protecting Rubik’s intellectual property
The RUBIK'S CUBE® in its three dimensional form and any graphic or photographic representation of it, in any configuration, coloured or uncoloured, whether it carries the RUBIK'S CUBE® name or logo, is protected by intellectual property laws throughout the world.
"You must contact Seven Towns Ltd for permission prior to any use of any of Rubik's intellectual property."
Seven Towns Ltd owns all the international rights in the RUBIK trademarks and in the overall image of the RUBIK'S CUBE®. The copyright belongs to Ernő Rubik, the originator of RUBIK'S CUBE® who has given Seven Towns Ltd full and exclusive authority to license and administer his rights, and to pursue by whatever legal means necessary any infringement of such rights.
You must contact Seven Towns Ltd. for permission prior to any use of any of Rubik's intellectual property.
Seven Towns Ltd is determined to stop any unauthorised use of its intellectual property and will pursue infringements of its rights in the image of the RUBIK'S CUBE® throughout the world by all legal means at its disposal.


Edit 3: From the Rubik's cube website: Copyright Notice, Disclaimer, Privacy


Spoiler



Copyright notice
Rubik® and Rubik's Cube® are registered trademarks throughout the world of Seven Towns Limited. Seven Towns Limited is the exclusive worldwide licensee of copyright in the Rubik's Cube puzzle and is the registered proprietor of European Community Trade Mark registrations in the images of the Rubik's Cube puzzle and the puzzle itself.
Seven Towns Ltd will prosecute unauthorized reproductions of the Rubik's Cube Puzzle, the Rubik's brand or any other intellectual property rights identified above. Such reproductions may also be seized and destroyed by customs authorities throughout the world.
© Rubik's/Seven Towns. All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer
Rubiks.com contains links to external websites. These websites are not operated by Rubiks.com and Rubiks.com does not control, and disclaims any responsibility for, the functioning and performance of these sites and any content on or available through such sites, including advertising, links to other sites, or comments or other communications between users of these sites.
If you have any legal queries, please contact us.
Privacy
Seven Towns Ltd. is committed to providing a fun, safe and secure website, www.rubiks.com for people of all ages. We are committed to maintaining high standards for protecting your privacy. We provide this Privacy Policy to summarize how we collect and use personally identifiable information we obtain when you visit our Website and explain the choices you can make regarding that information...
View our full Privacy Policy »


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## Pixel 6 (Jan 11, 2012)

Specs112 said:


> How can you copyright the stickers.
> 
> How is that even a thing.
> 
> **** purple.



It's not Copyright on the stickers... it's those 6 colors in the specific arrangement on the cube.

- Pixel -


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## Tim Major (Jan 11, 2012)

Yay purple.
I don't care about this at all. I can resticker it if I want. What's the big deal?


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## Pixel 6 (Jan 11, 2012)

mdolszak said:


> This is really stupid...
> I hope this doesn't happen to other cube companies, as I wouldn't want to have to replace the stickers on one side of every cube I got.


 
It wouldn't change your right to have a cube stickered in any fashion you want... But they can stop the manufacturers from stickering them that way. At a competition for example, you would still be allowed to use the Rubik's copyrighted color scheme.

This is still early, but what about 5 years from now if this sticks... Is it worth simply changing? or trying to get orange replacement stickers every time you order a cube?

- Pixel -


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## iEnjoyCubing (Jan 11, 2012)

I think it's slightly ridiculous. People have become so accustomed to that color scheme solving wise that switching it to purple can throw off peoples' times slightly. The only thing that this will do is increase the sales of extra/orange stickers from places like CubeSmith.

An alternative for cube shops could be including an extra orange set of stickers with the cube stickered with the non-infringement color scheme. That way, the buyer could make the choice (it does increase costs for the shops, however).

Hmm, V-Cube will have to deal with this too (if they expand who can't use the scheme). Except this time, they are on the receiving end.


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## Mollerz (Jan 11, 2012)

Their copyright is on the image of the cube, not of the actual cube itself. Hence, stickers.


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## Hershey (Jan 11, 2012)

Well, time to peel off blue stickers...
Russian style (color scheme)!

All jokes aside, this is ridiculous.


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## amostay2004 (Jan 11, 2012)

Tim Major said:


> Yay purple.
> I don't care about this at all. I can resticker it if I want. What's the big deal?


 Exactly. 

It would be a slightly bigger issue if Dayan actually provides good quality stickers that last, but theirs suck so most people change them eventually. Not sure how this will affect anything significantly.


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## emolover (Jan 11, 2012)

I swear 10% of people like purple. I am glad I like it.


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## Sarahjdes (Jan 11, 2012)

But, why are they only going after Dayan? Is it because they are attacking the biggest ones before? I mean, a lot of cubes also use that scheme...


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## qqwref (Jan 11, 2012)

They do indeed have a copyright (or is it a trademark?) on the IMAGE of the cube - a 3x3x3 Rubik's cube, with those six colors on it. You can see it if you check the packaging of an official Rubik's cube carefully.

I don't see this as a big deal at all, personally. Eastsheen has been using purple stickers for many, many years and the cubing community didn't really suffer from it; recognition wasn't significantly hurt (I'd know, I used Eastsheen 5x5s as my main cube for a long time) and anyone who cared enough would get Cubesmith stickers anyway. In fact, I'm glad about this, because the deal basically means that Rubik's knows about Dayan but will allow Dayan to continue to exist and make cubes. So if they go through with this then we basically wouldn't have to worry about them being put out of business.

PS: Since it's the image of the cube itself that is at issue here, offering a set of normally colored stickers along with the cube should still be fine. So that makes it even less of a change for us cubers.


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## Specs112 (Jan 11, 2012)

qqwref said:


> PS: Since it's the image of the cube itself that is at issue here, offering a set of normally colored stickers along with the cube should still be fine. So that makes it even less of a change for us cubers.


 
What about people like me who can't put stickers on something without failing?


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## aronpm (Jan 11, 2012)

Specs112 said:


> What about people like me who can't put stickers on something without failing?


 
So you buy a new cube once your stickers are worn out?

This really isn't a big deal.


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## qqwref (Jan 11, 2012)

Specs112 said:


> What about people like me who can't put stickers on something without failing?


If you can learn to consistently solve a cube in under 20 seconds, I'm sure you can learn to apply stickers  All you have to do is line the sticker up and go from one side of the sticker to the opposite one to avoid bubbles. They even have sticker application things so you can put on a whole side at once.


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## mrpotatoman14 (Jan 11, 2012)

Meh, it's understandable if they own the image.And really you can just spend like a dollar and get orange stickers from cubesmith which will last longer anyway.


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## Specs112 (Jan 11, 2012)

qqwref said:


> They even have sticker application things so you can put on a whole side at once.


 
Where do I get one of these?


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## freshcuber (Jan 11, 2012)

I feel like this will create two generations of cubers. All of us, who mostly use the standard color scheme. Or at least have orange. And all the newer cubers in a few years who will have purple. Even that's unlikely because most people start on a Rubik's brand anyway. Idc about restickering one side of a 3x3. It takes all of what? Two minutes?

I don't think it's that big of a deal but even if it is a legitimate legal claim it just seems petty of Seven Towns.


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## waffle=ijm (Jan 11, 2012)

support cubesmith, buy orange stickers


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## onlyleftname (Jan 11, 2012)

Specs112 said:


> Where do I get one of these?


Speedcubeshop


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## Noahaha (Jan 11, 2012)

I don't understand why this stops DaYan from sending out their DIY cubes with orange stickers, because then they're not specifying a color scheme. The stickerless issue is upsetting though...


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## qqwref (Jan 11, 2012)

Specs112 said:


> Where do I get one of these?


I looked and I'm not sure where to separately buy these, but I do remember in the past certain types of stickers (PVC?) coming with one. It's basically a piece of transparent plastic that comes over the stickers, and they all attach to it by static electricity. Sorry I can't be more helpful here.
EDIT: Ha, ninja'd. See onlyleftname's post above.



freshcuber said:


> I don't think it's that big of a deal but even if it is a legitimate legal claim it just seems petty of Seven Towns.


It does - but they may be following the legal doctrine that certain intellectual properties lose their power if you fail to prosecute a violation that you know about. So I wouldn't be too harsh on them for this in particular.


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## Kian (Jan 11, 2012)

Nobody has the right to be indignant about Seventowns defending their copyright/trademark rights. End of story.


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## Cool Frog (Jan 11, 2012)

emolover said:


> I swear 10% of people like purple. I am glad I like it.








I am totally set

Changed my color scheme for kicks and giggles, and my times are still the same.. this is good stuff.


waffle=ijm said:


> support cubesmith, buy orange stickers


 <3 Cubesmith, and coming to love Izo-stickers.


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## StachuK1992 (Jan 11, 2012)

It's not nearly as big of a deal as we're making it.
I just wish it were black instead of orange


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## emolover (Jan 11, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> I am totally set
> 
> Changed my color scheme for kicks and giggles, and my times are still the same.. this is good stuff.
> 
> <3 Cubesmith, and coming to love Izo-stickers.


 
That makes me a little bit mad since I got a bunch of cubesmiths about two days ago. I suppose I will buy $10 in purple for my main cubes.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 11, 2012)

Kian said:


> Nobody has the right to be indignant about Seventowns defending their copyright/trademark rights. End of story.


 
some of the hypocrisy between Seventowns and V-Cubes is mind boggling...


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## pjk (Jan 11, 2012)

I don't think this will be a big deal. People will re-sticker their cubes how they want, regardless to how they purchase them - and I don't think there will be any shortage of orange stickers anywhere...


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## Dillonzer (Jan 11, 2012)

I used a white tile cube, so black is opposite yellow. If anyone is really troubled by this, they could get a white cube and keep orange, since black - yellow != white - yellow, even though it is still a colour change, i would prefer black over purple. Nonetheless, go buy a set of stickers of orange, because they can't take orange off the market. Or maybe just include a sticker set with the cube and make the price 2 more dollars, my god so much money, and if you can't resticker very straight, get a tile cube with a different set of tiles.


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## Carson (Jan 11, 2012)

Speedsolving.com logo beware...


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## MalusDB (Jan 11, 2012)

TheMachanga said:


> Maybe they can just sell them without the stickers applied all the time, and leave it up to us on what the CS is, no?


 
This was my initial thought. They can't lay claim to the actual colours so if the companies (assuming this will actually move beyond dayan to other brands) decide to send them unstickered there is literally no problem. I know this would be my plan of action if I was DaYan right now.


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## qqwref (Jan 11, 2012)

masterofthebass said:


> some of the hypocrisy between Seventowns and V-Cubes is mind boggling...


I'm interested - what happened?


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## SoupFlies (Jan 11, 2012)

I hate orange, this is just Dayan conforming to my mandate. Purple is my favorite color so.... YAY. I am happy! 

Please feel free to send me all of your purple stickers =]

I think we should all just look into the idea of stickering cubes ourselves (I already have to worry about the stickers of every single Lubix cube that is shipped)


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## Andreaillest (Jan 11, 2012)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> LOL this is worse than when I heard Verdes was suing a pillow company for copying it's pillowed design. Omg I literally thought this was a joke.
> 
> What exactly are they hoping to achieve with this? Do they think people will all of a sudden start buying Seventowns cubes and stop buying Dayans because of something they can easily change? *****s.



Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, I understand it's not too much of a big deal since we can all just replace the stickers and support, but wtf does Seventowns get out of this? The only people who buy Dayans are actual speedcubers. Like we're going to drop these cubes because of a sticker issue. Dayan just can't catch a break. This is just ridiculously funny.


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## Pixel 6 (Jan 11, 2012)

A side observation... if Dayan were to be building these advanced "knock-off" cubes, and were to then put a counterfeit Rubik's brand logo on the cube, I could understand. 

But all these companies... C4U, Alpha, Mefferts, Dayan etc... putting in countless hours of dedication, development, and improvement to an archaic design of a cube to develop cubing into the sport that it is now... I don't see how it's even remotely in the knock-off category anymore. It'd be like Henry Ford going after the makers of the Bugatti Veyron for "stealing" his ideas, and creating a cheap knock-off of the model T.

What Rubik's has not done, is develop their puzzle, and advance it with the changing world. It's a dinosaur of a legacy. That being said, my hat's off to Erno for getting it into the market in the first place. But to deny development, advancement, and change for the sake of a brand recognised Billion dollar company??? 

I don't understand it.

I do get that from an untrained eye, the external differences between a Dayan cube, and a Rubik's cube is similar, and that a Dayan cube could appear to be a Rubik's cube. So this is where the same color scheme comes into play? 

Maybe if orange is replaced with purple, the random wide-eye passer bye watching a person solve a cube will finally be able to spot the difference. With that, Seven Towns can sleep easy, knowing that it is easier for people to spot these cheap knock-offs because of their purple stickers.

- Pixel -


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## hcfong (Jan 11, 2012)

I don't really understand what Seventowns is trying to get out of this. In my opinion, it's all down to what you're used to. Current speedcubers will simply buy loads of stickersets in their current colour scheme and continue to use it. New speedcubers don't know anything else than the new colour scheme and will simply start with the new one. As long as Seventowns don't start developing proper speedcubes, speedcubers will always turn to Dayan or other speedcube manufacturers.


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## Kirjava (Jan 11, 2012)

Hells yes, hopefully now dayan will be producing cubes with purple plastic. I've wanted one since forever.


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## Bapao (Jan 11, 2012)

Bah. Purple plastic on stickerless cubes 

At least people have stopped trying to shut DaYan down completely. This is certainly a big deal, but not really a big problem IMO.


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## izovire (Jan 11, 2012)

> The color scheme that Rubik's has Copyrights to, is: White - Yellow, Blue - Green, Red - Orange.



Rubik's actually uses: White - Brimstone Yellow, Brilliant Blue - Light Green, Red - Pastel Orange

Dayan uses: White - Yellow, Blue - Green, Red - Pastel Orange

(I'm being specific with vinyl colors)

I also think that Seventowns is trying to 'widen' the field goal so they have a better shot at shooting down cube manufacturers. I read the copyright/trademark somewhere (I now forgot) that it's only Red next to Green. But they've gone far enough now to where customs can seize black plastic DIY kits regardless if there are any colored stickers involved... this will only happen to bulk shipments of DIY cubes though. 

I emailed a legal person for the company and he said single cubes in the mail won't get seized... and aren't a problem... but they are hunting down KO manufacturers, not sellers.

As for me, I'm not at all concerned as long as cubes continue to be produced...


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## Godmil (Jan 11, 2012)

seems like Seven Towns are just causing a minor inconvenience to everyone... seems kinda pointless unless they're really concerned about watering down their trademark.
I guess I better buy a coloured Zhanchi now before they switch the plastic.


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## Goosly (Jan 11, 2012)

This makes no sense at all. Why don't they do the same with V-cube, LanLan, Witeden, ...?
I suggest Dayan stops stickering the cubes themselves, and just send the set of stickers with the cube. I don't want purple stickers


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## aaronb (Jan 11, 2012)

The main thing I'm thinking about is that Rubik's speedcube, that knockoff article was talking about. 5 years in development? Depending on the price, I would definitely buy one, to try it out.

About the sticker thing, meh, if I don't like the purple, I will buy a bulk order of Izo Stickers.


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## Bapao (Jan 11, 2012)

Godmil said:


> seems like Seven Towns are just causing a minor inconvenience to everyone... seems kinda pointless unless they're really concerned about watering down their trademark.
> I guess I better buy a coloured Zhanchi now before they switch the plastic.


 
I had the same notion. I was just about to order a stickerless version of each of the DaYans just to have the old colour scheme for safe keeping. But then I just figured; what the heck, let it go. I'm trying to go CN (I know, I'm such a sheep, but I'm having great fun learning) so I figured "what's one more colour?"....


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## Coolster01 (Jan 11, 2012)

I think cubesmith will be like "why am i getting a ton of orange side orders?!" as a matter of a fact, theyre happy cuz they'll be getting more and more orders.


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## peterbone (Jan 11, 2012)

A bit annoying since I use the stickerless Zhanchi. Will they still sell this?
http://lightake.com/detail.do/sku.3x3x3_DaYan_V_ZhanChi_Magic_Cube_DIY_Kit_Orange_-44980
If so then there's no problem I guess.


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## ~Adam~ (Jan 11, 2012)

Goosly said:


> This makes no sense at all. Why don't they do the same with V-cube, LanLan, *Witeden*, ...?



I just got a 3x3x9 and I believe they replaced orange with pink. It seems likely to me that they are also doing this.


I don't care. I usually resticker my new cubes anyway. All I hope is that when I order an 8x8 it comes with orange.


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## TheMachanga (Jan 11, 2012)

Still, when non-cubers see almost ANY twisty puzzle, even a megaminx or custom tony fisher puzzle or something, they'll always say "woah, lock at that weird Rubik's thingy". If they see a Dayan with a purple side, they'll still think Rubik's.


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## LNZ (Jan 11, 2012)

I ordered a white 3x3x9 cuboid some while ago and I got the following: White-yellow, pink-orange, blue-green. 

And I recently ordered a white Shengshou 6x6x6 cube and it is still stickered orange-red, blue-green, white-yellow. 

Same unaffected color scheme for my white Shengshou 4x4x4 cube.

I have also ordered a black Shengshou 8x8x8. It has not arrived yet. I hope it has the classic color scheme or at least comes with the option of
making the cube colors into the classic color scheme. At the moment, Cubesmith are not selling 8x8x8 stickers.


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## uberCuber (Jan 11, 2012)

Shamankian said:


> Sorry I didn't read through all the pages, but what about the stickerless versions? It would be pretty bad for those, since you can't just resticker them.


 
For stickerless cubes, you have three choices:
1. Find an older stickerless cube that still has orange on it.
2. Get over it.
3. Not buy a stickerless cube.


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## aronpm (Jan 11, 2012)

LNZ said:


> I have also ordered a black Shengshou 8x8x8. It has not arrived yet. I hope it has the classic color scheme or at least comes with the option of
> making the cube colors into the classic color scheme. At the moment, Cubesmith are not selling 8x8x8 stickers.


 
Puzzle Addictions is selling 8x8 sticker sets (or will be soon; the selection system doesn't look complete yet)


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## r_517 (Jan 11, 2012)

> New Dayan cubes will have stickers with Black, White, Red, Green, Purple, Blue and Yellow.
> (Officially) most of the Dayan 3x3 are sold in unassembled kits with 2 sets of stickers. New Guhong stickers will have Black and Purple. Dark blue might be changed to light blue probably.


Just a brief translation from the designer Daqing Bao.


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## TiLiMayor (Jan 11, 2012)

I see this like the first copyright infringement issue within cube companies that benefits anyone, cubesmith..


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## Forte (Jan 11, 2012)

They should ship cubes with all sides but orange stickered and the orange sticker sheet separate lol


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## masterofthebass (Jan 11, 2012)

Engberg91 said:


> Then cubers would only have to dissassemble the cube and assemble it again (stickerless cubes)


 
That is most definitely what every competitive speedcuber buys. Also, it is a trademark not a patent that Rubik's has. Their patent has expired already.


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## bobthegiraffemonkey (Jan 11, 2012)

Point to note: for Dayan 3x3s you can disassemble into pieces with one sticker each, and reassemble into any scheme you want with those colours. Why can't Dayan sticker it's cubes with some random colour scheme using the usual colours to get around the copyright, then anyone who wants to can change it to something more comfortable? Also, since some people like purple and they are working on it anyway, give that as an option instead of orange.

This hopefully won't affect people much, especially if they buy as DIYs (I do, and I have several spare sticker sets with standard colours, so I'm fine). Does anyone know for certain if DIYs are affected by this?

Also, Rubik's provide low quality products which next to nobody uses for speedsolving since they suck, and now they attack a popular brand over something petty. Are they trying to get speedcubers to hate them or something? It almost seems like they are having a competition with V-cubes to see who can annoy the speedcubing community more/make the decisions which seem the most stupid from our point of view.


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## r_517 (Jan 11, 2012)

bobthegiraffemonkey said:


> Point to note: for Dayan 3x3s you can disassemble into pieces with one sticker each, and reassemble into any scheme you want with those colours. Why can't Dayan sticker it's cubes with some random colour scheme using the usual colours to get around the copyright, then anyone who wants to can change it to something more comfortable? Also, since some people like purple and they are working on it anyway, give that as an option instead of orange.
> 
> This hopefully won't affect people much, especially if they buy as DIYs (I do, and I have several spare sticker sets with standard colours, so I'm fine). Does anyone know for certain if DIYs are affected by this?
> 
> Also, Rubik's provide low quality products which next to nobody uses for speedsolving since they suck, and now they attack a popular brand over something petty. Are they trying to get speedcubers to hate them or something? It almost seems like they are having a competition with V-cubes to see who can annoy the speedcubing community more/make the decisions which seem the most stupid from our point of view.


 
To stress again, most of the cubes that Dayan sell (to the retailers) are unassembled. It's up to the retailers that what colour scheme they want the cube to be.


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## Me (Jan 11, 2012)

If Apple can copyright a black rectangle then Seven Towns can copyright a color scheme. This is not as big of a deal as it's being made out to be. 



waffle=ijm said:


> support cubesmith, buy orange stickers


^^that.


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## HelpCube (Jan 11, 2012)

I emailed somebody in legal matters in Seven Towns, and got a very vague e-mail back. However, he did say that there are some misconceptions about what is going on, and I sent him another e-mail and hopefully he will go into more details on what is happening according to him. The rest of his e-mail just talked about other companies "stealing" Erno Rubik's invention.


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## DavidWoner (Jan 11, 2012)

"In the case of a trademark registration, *failure to* actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to *enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register* after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use". It is not necessary for a trademark owner to take enforcement action against all infringement if it can be shown that the owner perceived the infringement to be minor and inconsequential."

In order to maintain their trademark, Seventowns MUST take action against Dayan. qqwref hit the nail on the head on page 2 and everybody missed it because they were too busy baaaawwwwwing about a minor inconvenience.


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## coldplay (Jan 12, 2012)

Sarahjdes said:


> But, why are they only going after *Dayan*? Is it because they are attacking the *biggest ones* before? I mean, a lot of cubes also use that scheme...


 
It seems like DaYan has been getting a lot of flak lately. First it was V-Cube and their patents on piece design, and now it's Rubik's and their color scheme. However, I don't think that it's only DaYan they're going after. If Seven Towns did it to DaYan, there's no reason they can't go after the scores of other 3x3x3's in production. They might even take this to V-Cube. Either way, we still have Cubesmith. So really there isn't any reason to worry.


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## cubersmith (Jan 12, 2012)

I dont understand how you define "orange" considering there is a whole spectrum of colours, couldn't Dayan just change the shade?


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## Noob at Cube (Jan 12, 2012)

Looks like John Edward has some competition for his Biggest ****** in the Universe Award 

I have a ton of cubesmith stickers anyway so the only thing I am concerned about is the availability of orange stickerless cubes.
Hopefully the orange parts will be available for separate purchase.


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## mrCage (Jan 12, 2012)

F*** seventowns!! Can i copyright my cage method or the way i shave? Utter utter stupidity and greed. They have absolutely no credibility left. Sorry seventowns. Sad to see the comapny go down this way. They once sponsored our competitions. We don't need them anymore. It's time to move on :tu

Per


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## Cubenovice (Jan 12, 2012)

mrCage said:


> They once sponsored our competitions. We don't need them anymore.



I agree this is not a smart move but I sure hope they keep sponsoring. We DO need them.
Large competitions cost money and sometimes people even win tickets to go to large competitions.
Without sponsors such as Seventowns or Jumbo...

Anyway; all this is hear say...
Why don't we just wait and see ?
Untill there is any official statement from parties involved (or some some legal docs about the case pop up) it's all just speculation.


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## Kirjava (Jan 12, 2012)

mrCage said:


> F*** seventowns!! Can i copyright my cage method



Are you sure that the method is yours? 



mrCage said:


> They once sponsored our competitions. We don't need them anymore. It's time to move on :tu


 
Seventowns still sponsor our competitions.


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## chrissyD (Jan 12, 2012)

I have just one thing to say to all this....

:fp


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## mrCage (Jan 12, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Are you sure that the method is yours?


 
Yes, at least the name is my invention. The method itself is not rocket science, so somebody else must have used it or someting similar before me. And btw. K4 is truly yours 

On the more serious side. Do seventowns sponsor any other competition than the major ones like Euro, World Championships etc.? The smaller ones have local sponsors and/or a small entrance fee, right? Entrance fee for big comps is a good idea. If ppl can afford to book flight and hotel then sure they can afford a competition fee as well. 

(End of slightly off-track waffling)

Per


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## Sebastien (Jan 12, 2012)

yes, they do sponsor various other competitions, especially in the UK.


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## Edward (Jan 12, 2012)

Woo, a reason to buy from cubesmith! I've been meaning to give them some more of my money.


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## Michael Womack (Jan 12, 2012)

cubersmith said:


> I dont understand how you define "orange" considering there is a whole spectrum of colours, couldn't Dayan just change the shade?


 
from what I've seen is that the dayan colors are darker then Rubik's


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## Kirjava (Jan 12, 2012)

mrCage said:


> Yes, at least the name is my invention. The method itself is not rocket science, so somebody else must have used it or someting similar before me. And btw. K4 is truly yours


 
Yeah, I've seen independent creation but you're pretty much the first to develop it properly. Minh Thai uses a similar system


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## Reinier Schippers (Jan 12, 2012)

So with a DIY KIT they still can send the same stickers: Red, Orange, Green, Blue, Yellow and White. Because they aren't put on right?


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## Godmil (Jan 12, 2012)

They could, but I doubt they will, safer to just stick with purple stickers.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 12, 2012)

I've got and old Rubik's brand and a Zhanchi.

Colour comparisons:
White - Zhanchi looks brighter than Rubik
Yellow - Zhanchi is a bit darker than Rubik
Green - Zhanchi is darker than Rubik
Blue - Zhanchi is darker than Rubik
Red - Zhanchi is darker than Rubik
Orange - Zhanchi looks darker than Rubik

The colours are slightly different. That could be to do with the ages of the cubes. But surely, not all the colours would be different. Can you copyright colours? If Seven Towns made better cubes, then it may be viable. If a competitor makes a better cube than yours, you wouldn't stop them making it, you would try and make a better cube. Why wouldn't they stop the production of the cube alltogether if they could? After using my Dayan Zhanchi, I wonder how I did a 34.7 on my Rubik.

Why do people always by a Rubik's first? If you can get a better cube for the same price, then get the better cube. If shops sold a better alternative to the Rubik's (not too much better, a beginner couldn't handle a Zhanchi) for the same price, what cube would they buy? Seven Towns should make better cubes and then more people would use their cube. Surely, they can design and make a better cube for the same price?

I think Lubix should take a storebought, mod it, lube it, re-sticker it (beware of the sticker colour) and maybe sell it, and send one to Rubik to give them ideas of how to improve their cube.


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## Penguino138 (Jan 12, 2012)

I think as long as DIY cubes are sent with stickers not on them, it should be fine. I wouldn't think Seven Towns would go to the extreme length of going to everycubers house and checking whether their "offbrand" cube has purple stickers.


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## Nestor (Jan 12, 2012)

I replaced nearly a donen cubes in my collection so that it is white plastic only.

Now this...


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## Michael Womack (Jan 12, 2012)

UnAbusador said:


> I replaced nearly a donen cubes in my collection so that it is white plastic only.
> 
> Now this...


 
what was the reason why switching to white?


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## E3cubestore (Jan 12, 2012)

uberCuber said:


> For stickerless cubes, you have three choices:
> 1. Find an older stickerless cube that still has orange on it.
> 2. Get over it.
> 3. Not buy a stickerless cube.


 
That problem is easily solved, you just buy a guhong or zhanchi in orange plastic and steal the pieces that you need...

One cube would "fix" 6 others so we might actually stock the parts for switching for a couple bucks.


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## coldplay (Jan 12, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> That problem is easily solved, you just buy a guhong or zhanchi in orange plastic and steal the pieces that you need...
> 
> One cube would "fix" 6 others so we might actually stock the parts for switching for a couple bucks.


 
You, sir, are simply a genius. Though you should have kept it to yourself so you could reap all the rewards


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## The Bloody Talon (Jan 12, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> I've got and old Rubik's brand and a Zhanchi.
> 
> Colour comparisons:
> White - Zhanchi looks brighter than Rubik
> ...


 
of course it doesn't have to be the same exact colors for them to claim that dayan cubes looks like a rubik's cube.

IMO. yes, dayan are better speedcubes. But rubik's doesn't focus on being a speedcube. 
they focus on being just a puzzle toy for everybody (speedcuber or not) with a good quality.


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## Cool Frog (Jan 12, 2012)

coldplay said:


> You, sir, are simply a genius. Though you should have kept it to yourself so you could reap all the rewards


 
You can get custom stickers at puzzle addictions $0.85 for 2 cubes.
much cheaper than buying an orange cube?


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## The Bloody Talon (Jan 12, 2012)

E3cubestore said:


> That problem is easily solved, you just buy a guhong or zhanchi in orange plastic and steal the pieces that you need...
> 
> One cube would "fix" 6 others so we might actually stock the parts for switching for a couple bucks.


 
in case you are serious. lol
i think it is not illegal to own a stickerless cube with orange in it.


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## Kirjava (Jan 12, 2012)

*It's not illegal to own illegally sold cubes.*


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## The Bloody Talon (Jan 12, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> *It's not illegal to own illegally sold cubes.*


 
exactly what i want to say. 

anyway, does changing the color makes them comply with the rights of the rubik's?
The RUBIK'S CUBE® in its three dimensional form and any graphic or photographic representation of it, *in any configuration*, coloured or uncoloured, whether it carries the RUBIK'S CUBE® name or logo, is protected by *intellectual property laws* throughout the world.

edit:
oh wait, rubik's requested dayan the change of orange to purple.
ok...


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## ohlookmonkeys (Jan 13, 2012)

wouldn't this just kill off Rubik's own cubes, as everyone will be using purple instead of orange?


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## The Bloody Talon (Jan 13, 2012)

ohlookmonkeys said:


> wouldn't this just kill off Rubik's own cubes, as everyone will be using purple instead of orange?


 
i don't think so.
not everyone is a speedcuber


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## hic2482w (Jan 13, 2012)

ohlookmonkeys said:


> wouldn't this just kill off Rubik's own cubes, as everyone will be using purple instead of orange?


 
I'd rather buy a new set of orange stickers than keep the purple stickers imo...


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## ohlookmonkeys (Jan 13, 2012)

hic2482w said:


> I'd rather buy a new set of orange stickers than keep the purple stickers imo...


 
i'd replace them too, but only if they're too similar to the blue


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## fastcubesolver (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm just going to buy a ton of sets of orange stickers. Problem solved.


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## Nestor (Jan 13, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> what was the reason why switching to white?


 
I've always preferred white, but some puzzles were only available in black at the time of purchase. Now with more white puzzles coming out and a big enough collection (70+) it sucks to see those black ones breaking the monochromatic arrange... 

I'm selling the black ones to friends at store price, so I'm not investing any additional money while doing this ^^.


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## TMOY (Jan 13, 2012)

ohlookmonkeys said:


> wouldn't this just kill off Rubik's own cubes, as everyone will be using purple instead of orange?


 
Define "everyone". Most people buy an official cube as their first one, only the minority who's interested in soeed swtches to better cubes afterwards.

And when Eastsheens were still the best cubes available nobody complained about the purple instead of orange.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 13, 2012)

The Bloody Talon said:


> of course it doesn't have to be the same exact colors for them to claim that dayan cubes looks like a rubik's cube.
> 
> IMO. yes, dayan are better speedcubes. But rubik's doesn't focus on being a speedcube.
> they focus on being just a puzzle toy for everybody (speedcuber or not) with a good quality.


 
Whether you solve it for speed or not, having to do wrist turns all the time would get quite annoying. So would constant lock-ups. I wouldn't want a Zhanchi replica, but a cube that would be suitable for speedcubing, and if people want to make it better still, they just lube it and mod it.


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## mrCage (Jan 13, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> *It's not illegal to own illegally sold cubes.*



Maybe. But it's a different ball game for branded fashion like Gucci, YSL etc. If you buy fake copies when travelling you may face severe punishment upon arriving home. Who can believe you can really get a genuine Rolex for $20 anyway? Hmmm ...

In our case i consider the dayan "genuine" and rubiks/seventowns a cheap "copy" qualitywise ... 

Per

Per


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## Kirjava (Jan 13, 2012)

mrCage said:


> Maybe.



Factually.


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## timelonade (Jan 13, 2012)

Perhaps the real solution is for Rubik's to start making cubes that can compete .


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## Cuberty (Jan 13, 2012)

timelonade said:


> Perhaps the real solution is for Rubik's to start making cubes that can compete .


This can possibly work, unless Seven Towns is too lazy to change their design, maybe a new advertising campaign?


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## mrCage (Jan 13, 2012)

Cuberty said:


> This can possibly work, unless Seven Towns is too lazy to change their design, maybe a new advertising campaign?



Nah, they are too busy trying to "reinvent the wheel". New useless non-twisty puzzles. Marketed as the "bew rubik's cube". Yeah, right!!

Per


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## aronpm (Jan 13, 2012)

mrCage said:


> Maybe. But it's a different ball game for branded fashion like Gucci, YSL etc. If you buy fake copies when travelling you may face severe punishment upon arriving home. Who can believe you can really get a genuine Rolex for $20 anyway? Hmmm ...


 
The difference there is that the fake copies of Gucci and Rolex are exactly that: copies. They are sold under that name (or a blatant variation) with the intention of appearing authentic. Knockoff cubes aren't sold as "GENUINE RUBIK'S CUBES", they are sold as "3x3x3 DaYan V ZhanChi Magic Cube".


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## Bapao (Jan 13, 2012)

It's very hard to pop store-bought cube. Unlubed, the pieces would probably snap before an edge pops out. I thinks it's a design choice as opposed to a design flaw. They don't want their toys falling apart when kids play with them. I think it would be very hard for them to create a cube that is almost impossible to pop(current design), but still performs as well as we expect a speed cube to perform. I doubt we'll see them make a speed cube any time soon, if ever...


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## E3cubestore (Jan 13, 2012)

coldplay said:


> You, sir, are simply a genius. Though you should have kept it to yourself so you could reap all the rewards



It's quite elementary so I didn't consider it a secret, but thanks for the compliment I suppose 



Cool Frog said:


> You can get custom stickers at puzzle addictions $0.85 for 2 cubes.
> much cheaper than buying an orange cube?


 
That works for black and white plastic cubes for restickering, it doesn't work for colored cubes because you actually have to replace pieces. Sticking orange stickers on a purple face would make the cube look pretty ugly and asymmetrical.


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## coldplay (Jan 13, 2012)

Cool Frog said:


> You can get custom stickers at puzzle addictions $0.85 for 2 cubes.
> much cheaper than buying an orange cube?


 
Yes, they are inexpensive, but tell me, how do orange stickers on a purple background, look on a sticker-less cube? _Not very good_, don't you think?

I see everybody saying that there will be two different generations of cubers, with two different color schemes – the newer cubers will use purple, while we old-fashioned cubers will use orange. However, most beginners start out with a store-bought Rubik's brand cube. If they learn on a store-bought, with the standard color scheme (orange, not purple), won't the new cubers also prefer orange and switch the stickers on their speedcubes to orange? Just food for thought.



Bapao said:


> It's very hard to pop store-bought cube. Unlubed, the pieces would probably snap before an edge pops out. I thinks it's a design choice as opposed to a design flaw. They don't want their toys falling apart when kids play with them. I think it would be very hard for them to create a cube that is almost impossible to pop(current design), but still performs as well as we expect a speed cube to perform. I doubt we'll see them make a speed cube any time soon, if ever...


 
One word. *Torpedoes.*

Just like on the DaYans. It's nearly impossible to even remove a piece with torpedoes in it.


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## uberCuber (Jan 13, 2012)

coldplay said:


> One word. *Torpedoes.*
> 
> Just like on the DaYans. It's nearly impossible to even remove a piece with torpedoes in it.


 
In my experience, torpedoes just seem to make it so that when it does pop, it _really_ pops.


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## coldplay (Jan 13, 2012)

uberCuber said:


> In my experience, torpedoes just seem to make it so that when it does pop, it _really_ pops.


 
Well, when torpedoes are in my ZhanChi, I can barely take a piece out. I have to take a screwdriver to the thing just to pop out one edge. Mine is impossible to pop. I think if Rubik's (because they use rivets instead of screws) didn't rivet in the centers so tightly, and altered their piece design to support torpedoes, they could actually make a decent cube. Not exactly a speed cube, but just a cube for the transition from store-bought to speed cube. They could market it as the Rubik's Speed, perhaps.


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## luke1984 (Jan 13, 2012)

coldplay said:


> Well, when torpedoes are in my ZhanChi, I can barely take a piece out. I have to take a screwdriver to the thing just to pop out one edge. Mine is impossible to pop. I think if Rubik's (because they use rivets instead of screws) didn't rivet in the centers so tightly, and altered their piece design to support torpedoes, they could actually make a decent cube. Not exactly a speed cube, but just a cube for the transition from store-bought to speed cube. They could market it as the Rubik's Speed, perhaps.


 
Same here. Both my ZhanChi and my LingYun v2 have NEVER popped. Even though I keep the tensions pretty loose.


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## Olji (Jan 13, 2012)

The cube is easily disassembled without a screwdriver, twist the edge before you take it out/put it in.

And the cube is poppable, on my last comp it popped several times for some people who tried it, although it never pops for me. I'm not that rough of a turner I guess, we were averaging about the same times, and my Zhanchi is at pretty loose tensions, which explains some popping. (It probably helps me with the taking out/inserting an edge thing when I think about it.)
The anchors just act as some comfort to make me turn rougher or something, and also suits non-cubers who want to play with it, no disassembly for them. 
As well as the rough cubers I have around me can actually use it without it popping like crazy, had one who had a popfest with my Guhong, while it never pops for me, his cubing style was made pretty clear.

Like uberCuber said, when it pops you'll know, the piece won't simply pop out, it'll go flying... Assuming it doesn't explode that is.

EDIT: And for a try to get back to topic, I don't think it will be that much of a concern for me, I adapt rather quick to new color schemes(Completely weird setups (Blue-orange, green-yellow and red-white as an example, my old color scheme I used some time ago), as well as other colors, Eastsheen's purple(?) didn't make a difference for me), and I also have a crapload of sticker sets just in case, the pro of buying DIY's all the time.


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## Bapao (Jan 13, 2012)

coldplay said:


> *Torpedoes.*It's nearly impossible to even remove a piece with torpedoes in it.



Nah. It's harder to pop a piece on a storebought IMO. Recorded this short vid for you. Sorry mods, off topic I know  Please spare me 






If I were to try that on a new unlubed store bought I would break a nail or two.


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## coldplay (Jan 13, 2012)

Bapao said:


> Nah. It's harder to pop a piece on a storebought IMO. Recorded this short vid for you. Sorry mods, off topic I know  Please spare me
> 
> If I were to try that on a new unlubed store bought I would break a nail or two.


 
Wow. But it looks like you have your tensions set much looser than mine. I can't get the piece out even with the sideways maneuver.


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## Robocopter87 (Jan 13, 2012)

qqwref and David gave a reasonable explanation for the action that Seven Towns took. Yes its totally stupid, but it was required of Seven Towns in order to keep their trademark. Thus, they don't really care what the outcome is, but rather they care about keeping a firm hold on being the originals. 

This isn't about stickers, this is about their trademark.

Also, people replace stickers anyway. Support Cubesmith and izo, buy stickers.


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## The Bloody Talon (Jan 13, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> Whether you solve it for speed or not, having to do wrist turns all the time would get quite annoying. So would constant lock-ups. I wouldn't want a Zhanchi replica, but a cube that would be suitable for speedcubing, and if people want to make it better still, they just lube it and mod it.


 
i agree. 
but they focus on being "just a puzzle toy" for everybody (speedcuber or not) with a good quality. 
hey, it is not my fault.


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## Robocopter87 (Jan 14, 2012)

Oh and I forgot to add, its obvious that it wasn't that big a deal because they changed the color of orange. If they would've asked to change white, I think there would be quite the uproar.


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## hcfong (Jan 14, 2012)

Robocopter87 said:


> Oh and I forgot to add, its obvious that it wasn't that big a deal because they changed the color of orange. If they would've asked to change white, I think there would be quite the uproar.


 
No. They weren't asked to change a specific colour, e.g. orange, but to change the colour scheme and the orientation of the colours relative to each other. Dayan decided to comply with the complaint by changing orange to purple.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 14, 2012)

hcfong said:


> No. They weren't asked to change a specific colour, e.g. orange, but to change the colour scheme and the orientation of the colours relative to each other. Dayan decided to comply with the complaint by changing orange to purple.


 
Can you trademark colours? Really. It's like a website asking another website to change it's design because they look simular. Because they invented the concept, they think they are the forefront of speedsolving, when actually, they are at the back. Also, the first link (on the first post) made Dayan's sound like inferior cubes, although they clearly haven't compared them. Rubik make rubbish cubes. End of. They just want to get their own back on better cube companies.


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## hcfong (Jan 14, 2012)

No, you can't trademark or copyright individual colours, but you can trademark combinations or configurations of colours. Same as you can't trademark or copyright individual words, but you can trademark or copyright combinations and configurations of words made into a song, story, poem etc.


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## Robocopter87 (Jan 14, 2012)

Sorry hcfong, I wrote that down wrong, I know that didn't ask Dayan to change specifically Orange, they asked them to change the whole scheme. What I meant was Dayan made a good choice in picking orange because it is a color that isn't used by many people who aren't CN. Now if they had changed white to purple, I'm sure there would be a problem. 

Dayan softened the blow and made it not that big of deal by switching Orange specifically.

Sorry. I wrote that wrong.


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## Jaycee (Jan 14, 2012)

Robocopter87 said:


> What I meant was Dayan made a good choice in picking orange because it is a color that isn't used by many people who aren't CN.


 
Yellow-Orange is a popular BLD orientation (or so I heard)


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## asportking (Jan 14, 2012)

Robocopter87 said:


> What I meant was Dayan made a good choice in picking orange because it is a color that isn't used by many people who aren't CN.


I think they chose it because orange and purple are more similar than, say, orange and white. Red-purple might have been a better choice in my opinion, but that's just me.


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## aronpm (Jan 14, 2012)

Jaycee said:


> Yellow-Orange is a popular BLD orientation (or so I heard)


 
Switching a colour in a BLD orientation isn't too hard, really. It just takes a couple solves to get used to. I could sub-10 memo pretty easily if you swapped my white with black.


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## waffle=ijm (Jan 14, 2012)

OLOLOLOLOLOL. Summary to the best of my understanding. 

1) Rubik's may not necessarily want to but they *have* too. People seem to be missing this point. (Nubs will argue, but what if they want to. _ANSWER - they still have to_)

2) Rubik's doesn't make inferior cubes. They make cubes that aren't made for speedsolving. Based on the original which sells a lot, so it isn't broken, why fix it? (Nubs will argue but it is broken. Go to point 3)

3) Speedcubers isn't the majority in the market. We _appeal_ to them (hence DIY kits and the sort), maybe, but they don't necessarily have us in mind when it comes to sale. So stop saying Rubik's is oppressing everyone because (back to point 1)

4) Also it's Dayan, and they don't make the best of stickers. You'll literally replace them in less than 3 months (nubs will argue that I haven't changed my stickers yet. The fact that they will make this argument makes them nub so don't even bother)

5) Eastsheen (which used to be the best) had purple stickers on it. The older generation used them with no complaints and if they did complain about they did not bitch about it but instead, just bought a new set of stickers. (No money, get a job. Too young, do some nice things for your parents and ask them, repeat if necessary.)


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## Pixel 6 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thanks Patrick for reopening this thread. People, please keep it civil.

So... new news, and some observations.

I placed an order for cubes earlier today... I received an email back about my new order of Dayan cubes, and found out that the supplier I get my cubes from had a customer of his get a large order of +500 cubes get taken at customs.

I can order cubes, but either as DIY or I have to take the risk of them getting seized. Even as DIY kits there is a risk of not getting my cubes in.

It looks like many cube stores in china are taking action to protect themselves. Many have taken assembled 3x3x3's off their sites. Some have removed only the black cubes, while others will sell assembled cubes, only not stickered. One store took every type of assembled 3x3 off of their site to protect their business.

This is not about starting a flame war against Seven Towns, Verdes, Dayan etc. It's about what's happening to our community.

Our beloved Dayan cubes are being considered to be knock-off / counterfeit products, and if the big companies go against them, (Rubik's / Seven Towns for example) this may in fact stick.

So, If cubing stores can no longer safely purchase cubes in bulk... what happens to these stores, our competitions, and the community.

If Dayan, or any other manufacturer for that matter can no longer get their products outside their country, what happens to the rest of us? Why would they bother making cubes, if there's a risk their company might not be able to sell them?
I'm not sure how to go about approaching this... but what happens when say, every US based store can no longer sell 3x3 cubes other than the Rubik's brand?

We've seen some hits in regards to our cubing world... but it looks like we've now hit up against the multi-billion dollar Seven Towns company. What can we possibly do to keep the real R&D on cubes happening, and companies like Dayan producing real speed cubes?

Also, if you own a cube store here in the US, I'd like to hear your stance on what you plan to do to keep your company alive and cubes available.

- Pixel -

Further reading on customs and Rubik's:

http://rulings.cbp.gov/detail.asp?ru=477375&ac=pr
http://www.rubiks.com/i/company/media_library/pdf/Web_142_RELEASE_Fakesroundup.pdf
http://rulings.cbp.gov/detail.asp?ru=h027746&ac=pr


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## emolover (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't see why they care this much. Although they lose some business from speed cube companies, it is not something that will come within the tiniest fraction of putting them out of business due to the moron sticker peeler who buy the cubes for sometimes $20 at ripoff stores.


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## qqwref (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't really know how this is going to pan out, but at the moment, it looks bad. I really hope that people are overreacting and that this will fix itself soon, and assembled speedcubes will be able to be freely sold again (and yes, that IS a potshot at SevenTowns). Although I don't think they care about the speedcubing community at all, I would really like to see a SevenTowns representative's take on this, and to know whether they are trying to get rid of every "knockoff" cube or just trying to protect their trademark.


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## pi.cubed (Feb 8, 2012)

Anyone know Seven Towns' customer email address? I couldn't find it on their website.
I know it will probably make 0 difference, but I may as well try sending them an email about this. Maybe some other people who are actually good at writing letters could send one too.

Also, why are Dayan cubes considered 'fake'? I'm fairly certain they never claimed to be Rubik's Cubes.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 8, 2012)

Read the 2005 ruling.

It's about the trademark color scheme / counterfeiting.
Change colorscheme and logo/images on packaging (schould not be the iconic image) and you're good for the trademark
Don't call it or present it as a "Rubik's cube" and you're good for counterfeiting

We also have this going on with products of the company I'm working for.
Unless they make a real copy incl our exact branding it will be very difficult to get them for "counterfeiting".
We've seen products with variations on our branding (using the second half of our brandname), same overall shapes and colors and there's little we can do...

In the last 10 years or so we've only been able to seize a few molds (and then they may just build another one and continue...)

As to the Seven towns page:
“For a number of years now, we have operated an ongoing strategy designed to stamp out all forms of* counterfeiting *of the iconic Rubik‟s Cube” says David
Hedley Jones, Seven Towns‟ Senior Vice President, Rubik‟s Brand.
Counterfeiting is very specific: trying to pass the copy of as the original product.
No such thing with the Dayan cubes that we buy via the online stores.
As I understand the 2005 ruling they may just replace the images by a scrambled cube and then it no longer looks like the trademarked image 

As for the large shipments of seized cubes: I can image that these actually were branded Rubik's. And that some manufacturers are trying to get these into regular retail stores. 

[speculation]
Now imagine that these counterfeit cubes were actually made by one of our typical speedsolving cube producers; in that case I can understand the agressive approach by SevenTowns. 
[/speculation]

*EDIT: just read the 2009 ruling...

WTF magic cube prevented entry because it has some  colors the same as the Rubiks Trademark???
If this is still the current state of affairs that could mean that just just changing one color of the color scheme (as proposed earlier in this thread) would not suffice...*

Really curious where this is going....


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## Pixel 6 (Feb 8, 2012)

From what I understand, and what was implied in the email I received, they were not counterfeit Rubiks cubes nor branded as so. I have asked for further details on the seizure, and will share the pertinent information I receive on the reply. Know that to protect the buyers and sellers anonymity, I only feel comfortable giving out so much information.

With that being said, it would not surprise me if it was a box of Dayan style cubes under no guise of being anything but a legitimate Chinese manufactured magic cube we're that all familiar with.

I also wouldn't expect customs to know the difference between a Rubiks branded cube, and a magic cube. If it's not coming from a Rubik's factory, to an authorized Rubik's distributor with paperwork of it's authenticity, I'd conclude customs assumes ALL 3x3 cubes are counterfeit / knockoffs and subject to seizure.

Solve a Mefferts, Fisher, or custom hand-built puzzle in public, and 10 out of 10 will assume it's a Rubik's brand puzzle.

- Pixel -


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## peterbone (Feb 8, 2012)

Pixel 6 said:


> http://www.rubiks.com/i/company/media_library/pdf/Web_142_RELEASE_Fakesroundup.pdf


I like how at the end of that Rubik's article they mention Erik's world record and Breandon winning the world championship, but don't mention that they used 'fake' cubes.


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## Innocence (Feb 8, 2012)

I really would not mind if every cube was just shipped as a DIY. I hope that's what they'll eventually do.


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## andyfreeman (Feb 8, 2012)

pi.cubed said:


> Anyone know Seven Towns' customer email address? I couldn't find it on their website.
> I know it will probably make 0 difference, but I may as well try sending them an email about this. Maybe some other people who are actually good at writing letters could send one too.
> 
> Also, why are Dayan cubes considered 'fake'? I'm fairly certain they never claimed to be Rubik's Cubes.


 
It's on here, including David's email and his PAs

Interestingly it's a UK phone number

http://www.rubiks.com/i/company/media_library/pdf/Web_142_RELEASE_Fakesroundup.pdf


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## TimMc (Feb 8, 2012)

Are only bulk orders of 500+ being blocked at customs? What's the extent of this? Are single unit orders from drop-shipping sites being blocked? Will this just cut out the middle-middle-local-man and encourage buyers to purchase directly from the middle-man in China?

EDIT: I'm just wondering if this is having much impact on the consumers. Obviously it'll impact resellers...

Tim.


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## Kirjava (Feb 8, 2012)

Some people forget about how SevenTowns actually does support the community.


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## kinch2002 (Feb 8, 2012)

TimMc said:


> Are only bulk orders of 500+ being blocked at customs? What's the extent of this? Are single unit orders from drop-shipping sites being blocked? Will this just cut out the middle-middle-local-man and encourage buyers to purchase directly from the middle-man in China?
> 
> EDIT: I'm just wondering if this is having much impact on the consumers. Obviously it'll impact resellers...
> 
> Tim.


Last time I talked to Dave at Seventowns was a few months ago. He said that they try to block large orders, but weren't concerned about the odd one or 2 that people buy.



Kirjava said:


> Some people forget about how SevenTowns actually does support the community.


Indeed. UK competitions couldn't happen without their help, and iirc they sponsor the major championships too. The guys at Seventowns are actually really nice irl, and are simply trying to protect their own products. Can't blame them for that really. Sure, it could mean that Chinese cubes aren't as readily available, but we might just have to deal with it.

As for people who get annoyed that Rubik's brands are always terrible, they should consider that 'terrible' is a subjective word. 99% of their market is the general public, who put short and long-term durability as a priority. So that's what Rubik's base their cubes around.


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## Chrisandstuff (Feb 8, 2012)

Ok well this kinda has me worried ive been tracking an order from magiccubemall and I have a guhong and a megaminx to come in. Well its been in NY for the past 4 days. I dont think that they will be taking a single small order like this but it has me worried since it hasnt moved from NY since it flew in from Honk Kong a few days ago.


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## Godmil (Feb 8, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> As for people who get annoyed that Rubik's brands are always terrible, they should consider that 'terrible' is a subjective word. 99% of their market is the general public, who put short and long-term durability as a priority. So that's what Rubik's base their cubes around.



Durability is one thing, but remember how prevalent 'Rubik's Wrist' was. Some new Rubik's brands, without being taken apart, cleaned and lubed, pose a significant health risk for even moderate use.


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## radmin (Feb 8, 2012)

I wouldn't mind seeing DIYs not come with stickers at all. 
I always replace them anyway.


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## coldplay (Feb 8, 2012)

Pixel 6 said:


> Thanks Patrick for reopening this thread. People, please keep it civil.
> 
> So... new news, and some observations.
> 
> ...




Wow. I saw the PDF on Rubik's website and it's so heavily opinionated and biased. This is absolutely ridiculous. Rubik's just doesn't care about the speed cubing community *at all*. They're arrogant and make cubes that *nobody* speed cubes with, and then they go and try to crush the competition that is _better_ than them.

And then, they make the general public believe that our beloved DaYan cubes are *knockoffs*. Bloody *knockoffs*. Also, when the patent for the 3x3 expired years ago! DaYans are not KOs. And suppose they were – then Seven Towns would have a reason to do so but still, people should be allowed to use what cubes they wish to use. 

I have giant respect for Ernö Rubik. His original idea made all of this possible. But his company? I don't like it. Not one bit.

- Ky


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## andyfreeman (Feb 8, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Some people forget about how SevenTowns actually does support the community.


 
That may be the case BUT on the otherside of the coin.

1) Their cubes are useless for speedcubing without modding. OK, I know FZ did a sub-10 but that's not the point. Therefore there is a market for speedcubes: people buy them and want them to speedcube.

2) If they are blocking speedcubes from entering the market then they are damaging the speedcubing community: particularly if all eventually become blocked. The whole reason that there are dayans, shengens etc out there are because people buy them. If there wasn't a market, dayan and shengen wouldn't exist. Simple. See (1)

3) Without speedcubes, I wonder what would happen to speedcube comps? Would people bother any more? Therefore they wouldn't even have anything to sponsor. Imagine you could only attend the event with a Rubik's cube!!!

4) People see other people cubing: it's free advertisment. Do they know its a Zhanchi? No, as far as they are concerned it's a Rubik's. They MIGHT think, "I want to try that". So where do they go? To a store and buy a Rubik's. I've inspired a number of people to buy a cube or at least try it. Rubik's win. The only way they lose is because they don't have a decent speedcube so if/when people want to take up speedcubing they are going to go and get a decent speedcube from elsewhere.


Their cube gives me bad wrists. I do use my Rubik's for practicing F2L however because of this: it forces me to go slow otherwise it hurts. Otherwise, it's pretty much an ornament on my desk at work.

All in all, thank you to ST for your product for introducing me to cubing. And thank you to Mr R for inventing the cube from which a lot of decent speedcubes have been spawned. But please leave the speedcubes alone so I can get on with speedcubing.....

Now HERE'S a thought: are V-CUBE going to get their V3 cubes blocked?????????????


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## MaeLSTRoM (Feb 8, 2012)

coldplay said:


> Wow. I saw the PDF on Rubik's website and it's so heavily opinionated and biased. This is absolutely ridiculous. Rubik's just doesn't care about the speed cubing community *at all*. They're arrogant and make cubes that *nobody* speed cubes with, and then they go and try to crush the competition that is _better_ than them.
> 
> And then, they make the general public believe that our beloved DaYan cubes are *knockoffs*. Bloody *knockoffs*. Also, when the patent for the 3x3 expired years ago! DaYans are not KOs. And suppose they were – then Seven Towns would have a reason to do so but still, people should be allowed to use what cubes they wish to use.
> 
> ...



...

Let me break this down for you.

1) Rubik's do care about thew speedcubing community, they still sponsor several competitions, and havent stopped all sales of other cubes.
2)They didnt make the public believe that Dayan cubes are KO's, they just said that there are companies out there tring to sell cubes as Rubik's brand, when they aren't.
3)The patent has expired, but the trademark hasnt, so they have no chioce but to still enforce it otherwise they lose it, and would then lose money to the companies making fake rubik's brand cubes.
4)People can still use any cube, I don't see them coing round people's houses and taking cubes away, and you can still buy them.

TL;DR:
They are enforcing there trademark, not trying to bring down the community.

(Slightly unrelated)
What is it with people attacking companies atm?!?
First V-cubes and now Seven-towns. Just chill out guys, until they actually start doing stuff, raging about them isnt going to help. Also, raging against a company is a great way for them to stop caring about the community.
Seriously, relax about it.


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## andyfreeman (Feb 8, 2012)

MaeLSTRoM said:


> ...
> 
> Let me break this down for you.
> 
> 1) Rubik's do care about thew speedcubing community, they still sponsor several competitions, and havent stopped all sales of other cubes.


 
No, not directly. But your uneducated customs official isn't going to know the difference between a knock off and a Dayan

And no, they aren't going to take cubes away from people.

The problem is this: *IF* this becomes a large scale issue, then shops, online or whatever, who specialise in twisty puzzles, who buy LARGE quantities of cubes from SPEEDCUBE manufacturers to sell in their shops risk not having anything to sell because customs have confiscated it. And what happens to shops that don't have product to sell....? 

Don't forget these cubes have been paid for: the owners can't get their money back.

This has happened: hence the resurrection of the topic

Copyright/ trademark infringment is a hot topic right now.

Hence it's right for some people to be a little twitchy right now.

People have the right to voice their opinions: who knows, if we didn't there might not be any Guhongs, Zhanchis and the like around now?


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## pjk (Feb 8, 2012)

This is a big deal. Getting the speedcubes that we all love and enjoy may not be as possible in the near future, and the prices may soon go up significantly. It is understandable that Rubik's wants to protect its brand, but preventing all Chinese cubes from being sold in the US seems a bit out there. Dayan has significantly improved the quality of their puzzles (which is something that few other companies have done - including Rubik's), hence why they have been successful among the cubing community. A few things that I'm curious about - Verdes just came out with a new 3x3 speedcube that is strikingly similar to the Dayan 3x3's. Did Verdes buy the expired Rubik's patent and improve on it? Did they take the design of the new cube from Dayan, or did Dayan take it from them? Who is enforcing the seizure of larger shipments of puzzles, Verdes or SevenTowns? A statement from Verdes of SevenTowns would be great so we can clear up any confusion.



peterbone said:


> I like how at the end of that Rubik's article they mention Erik's world record and Breandon winning the world championship, but don't mention that they used 'fake' cubes.


I also found it a bit funny, even though you wouldn't expect them to say that. One thing that is odd is that SevenTowns has supported all these local competitions, and they are blatantly aware that every puzzle being used in the competition is from China (and likely wasn't made by Rubiks), but they don't say anything. Obviously they want to go after the producers and not the consumers, but I don't think they realize how big of an effect this will have on the community if all the speedcubes we use are no longer available.


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## andyfreeman (Feb 8, 2012)

pjk said:


> This is a big deal. Getting the speedcubes that we all love and enjoy may not be as possible in the near future, and the prices may soon go up significantly. It is understandable that Rubik's wants to protect its brand, but preventing all Chinese cubes from being sold in the US seems a bit out there.



Exactly my point and my concerns too.



pjk said:


> Did Verdes buy the expired Rubik's patent and improve on it?


As far as I'm aware patents don't work like that. Once the patent has expired, that's it: anyone can make what you have patented. Having said that, anyone can make your patented design while it's still valid: it's up to you to put the time and effort into defending it in court etc. and stop them from continuing. You can of course get all costs back, but it's a long and arduous process.

Even then, patents aren't the be-all-end-all: Say Verdes at the time invented a 3x3 cube at the same time as Rubik that was for arguments sake, hypothetically, coreless. Both could file for patents and have them approved and be immune from one another simply because the two are technically totally different mechanisms.

That's the beauty of patents: they protect you to assist in preventing someone from copying your design exactly, yet still allow ingenutiy to prosper, which is great for competitors.

Verdes patent itself was for a design of a puzzle that could have any number of layers. He couldn't have just taken the Rubik's patent and reapplied for it with minor improvements, it needs to be something major. Which is what he did.



pjk said:


> Did they take the design of the new cube from Dayan, or did Dayan take it from them?


That has been bugging me for a long time too. I'd love to know the answer to that one. I suspect we'll never know.


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## coldplay (Feb 8, 2012)

pjk said:


> This is a big deal. Getting the speedcubes that we all love and enjoy may not be as possible in the near future, and the prices may soon go up significantly. It is understandable that Rubik's wants to protect its brand, but preventing all Chinese cubes from being sold in the US seems a bit out there. Dayan has significantly improved the quality of their puzzles (which is something that few other companies have done - including Rubik's), hence why they have been successful among the cubing community. A few things that I'm curious about - Verdes just came out with a new 3x3 speedcube that is striking similar to the Dayan 3x3's. Did Verdes buy the expired Rubik's patent and improve on it? Did they take the design of the new cube from Dayan, or did Dayan take it from them? Who is enforcing the seizure of larger shipments of puzzles, Verdes or SevenTowns? A statement from Verdes of SevenTowns would be great so we can clear up any confusion.
> 
> 
> I also found it a bit funny, even though you wouldn't expect them to say that. One thing that is odd is that SevenTowns has supported all these local competitions, and they are blatantly aware that every puzzle being used in the competition is from China (and likely wasn't made by Rubiks), but they don't say anything. Obviously they want to go after the producers and not the consumers, but I don't think they realize how big of an effect this will have on the community if all the speedcubes we use are no longer available.


 
Well, guess it's officially time to go underground. At least until Seven Towns comes to their senses.


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## shelley (Feb 8, 2012)

Have cube parts shipped separately. The layman customs officer isn't going to confuse a bag of edge pieces for a fake Rubik's cube.


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## ExoVampire (Feb 8, 2012)

I think the issue here is that Seven Towns has found themself mad on DaYan, because DaYan is more popular. That is just my point of view.
Most of the speedcubers today are using DaYan. It isn't something we can change, or do things about. Speedcubing would be so less if DaYan, Alpha, etc. would be "shutdown".
I can't find any other solution than a protest against these claims. If it eventually comes to the point, where speedcubes only can be sold in the US, the speedcubing community will die slowly.

Don't hang me up on this though.


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## Pete the Geek (Feb 8, 2012)

Customs seizures can be appealed and it would benefit all US-based cube sellers to cooperate and join forces to fight such seizures, but I understand that the costs could make it uneconomical. If it is a copyright issue, we are going to have new cube colours, perhaps checkered and polka-dot patterns and even different sticker shapes. In some alternate universe, the WCA will pass a rule requiring 3x3 competition cubes to have purple as one of the colours .


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## Bapao (Feb 8, 2012)

A competition where only Rubiks brand 3x3x3 fresh out of the box are allowed would be interesting though. The problem is that some Rubiks brand cubes turn okay, whilst others are just tensioned incorrectly. So the whole thing would still be luck of the draw.

I still believe that there is enough room for DaYan and co. DaYan isn't a retail brand and potential buyers either stumble upon their cubes by accident, or they actively search for them because they are more fit for speed solving. I doubt many casual cubers that aren't interested in speed solving purchase a Chinese cube as their first. They'd probably buy a Rubiks brand because that's "the real deal".

We might be overreacting. I think it's a pretty big ode to DaYan that the new V-Cube resembles their offerings. Goes to show that DaYan have got the 3x3x3 formula right and that others are interested in borrowing their ideas as a result.


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## andyfreeman (Feb 8, 2012)

Bapao said:


> So the whole thing would still be luck of the draw.



In which case you might as well give the competitors a raffle ticket instead and decide that way


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## Bapao (Feb 8, 2012)

andyfreeman said:


> In which case you might as well give the competitors a raffle ticket instead and decide that way


 
Exactly. Or just use one cube for the whole comp and then the last few solvers get a moderalty worn in cube to work with .

A small community being posed with issues that are seemingly out of our hands. Only time can tell where this dispute will take us. Do we really have any leverage in this? I'm not sure.


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## BlueDevil (Feb 8, 2012)

What I find funny is that they go after all these 'fake cubes' yet they still post some of Feliks' solves on their website (in which he uses a 'fake' Dayan cube).

This just makes me hate Rubik's more than ever before. If they don't want people buying 'fake' cubes instead of theirs, they should come out with their own, awesome speedcube!


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## Kirjava (Feb 8, 2012)

andyfreeman said:


> Imagine you could only attend the event with a Rubik's cube!!!


 
this is never ever ever going to happen ever


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## DaKrazedKyubizt (Feb 8, 2012)

Frankly, all I can think to say is that Dayan is a company that has served the speedcubers' needs. They can't just cut that off. If they cut that off, they get a ton of pissed speedcubers and a completely ruined activity. That's almost like saying you can't play table tennis without good table tennis rubber anymore, and everybody has to use the exact same crappy paddles. That's no fun. It takes all the incredible amount of brain power necessary for high level table tennis and defenestrates it. Then table tennis just becomes that boring past time that people play when they're drunk, and it loses everything that makes table tennis what it is today.

Not to say that if copyright infringement crap like this goes through, all Dayan cubes will suddenly disappear into thin air, but you guys catch my drift, right?

.... I'm sure most of you can't take me seriously because I'm using table tennis to make a comparison, which to most people is a poor excuse for a sport, but that's okay. I'm quite alright with that.


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## Vincents (Feb 8, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> this is never ever ever going to happen ever


 
Was 82 Worlds held this way?


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## Reinier Schippers (Feb 8, 2012)

Vincents said:


> Was 82 Worlds held this way?



The only brand was rubik's at that time, maybe a few cheap knock off's but everyone used a rubik's


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## Kirjava (Feb 8, 2012)

Vincents said:


> Was 82 Worlds held this way?


 
going to != has


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## shelley (Feb 8, 2012)

Pete the Geek said:


> In some alternate universe, the WCA will pass a rule requiring 3x3 competition cubes to have purple as one of the colours .


 
Well that's just silly. Why would they ever do that, even in an alternate universe?


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## HelpCube (Feb 8, 2012)

I'd love to see this go to court. Seriously, legal action needs to take place to really sort this junk out.


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## radmin (Feb 8, 2012)

The one pdf stated that eastsheen didn't infringe because of the purple side. They can just ship with no stickers.


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## Yuxuibbs (Feb 9, 2012)

I think we should annoy 7 towns until they stop and tell dayan to go back to orange or just don't put stickers on their cubes. Every time someone sees a 3x3 they will think it's a rubik's brand, most people don't even know about the other brands of 3x3s. Non cubers will see a 3x3 and be like "that's a rubik's cube", they won't say, "that's a dayan (or any other cube brand)". There's no point attacking dayan because it's only going to hurt 7 towns. I also think dayan should just switch 2 opposite colors on their stickerless cubes so we just have to take the pieces apart and put them back together in the regular color scheme. 
If seven towns wanted to go after companies because of color scheme, why didn't they do that years ago when the first DIYs came out? Why aren't they going after V cubes (do they care what type of blue)? 
Dayan is just getting targeted because it's taking over the 3x3 world (for speed cubers). 
If something like pokemon just got popular and it took over the gaming community, all the other companies that sell games will start suing the people that sell pokemon games just because their product is better/more fun. (couldn't really think of a good example)

I think I rambled too much....


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## Bob (Feb 9, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> this is never ever ever going to happen ever


 
If it ever did happen, you could expect that the Bob Burton Cube Association would be created and non-Rubik's brands would be allowed.


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## qqwref (Feb 9, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> Some people forget about how SevenTowns actually does support the community.


Sure, by helping pay for a few competitions. But remember, they are profiting *heavily* off of our existence - the revitalization of the speedcubing movement, the worldwide competitions, the community, the Youtube videos, the TV exposure, they have all made the cube a far hotter item than it was a decade ago. They also explicitly use speedcubing records, techniques, and imagery to drum up sales. Putting a few grand into big comps is really the least they could do.



kinch2002 said:


> As for people who get annoyed that Rubik's brands are always terrible, they should consider that 'terrible' is a subjective word. 99% of their market is the general public, who put short and long-term durability as a priority. So that's what Rubik's base their cubes around.


I wouldn't say official Rubik's Cubes are especially durable either. The stickers start to peel very quickly and end up entirely losing their coloring, and from what I've heard the cores of official Rubik's Cubes seem to be more prone to breaking than DIY cores. Compare that to my Lubix Guhong which I bought quite a while ago, and have used pretty heavily since, and which came with good enough stickers that the logo is pretty much undamaged. (Needless to say I haven't had any core/piece breaks either, despite dropping it many times and often having it in my backpack.) When I think of especially durable cubes, the only ones that come to mind are the large V-Cubes.


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## daniel0731ex (Feb 9, 2012)

V-cube 3 = Greek knockoff copies of the original Rubik's cube.

They should be illegal.

[/sarcasm]


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## masterofthebass (Feb 9, 2012)

daniel0731ex said:


> V-cube 3 = Greek knockoff copies of the original Rubik's cube.
> 
> They should be illegal.


 
The patent offices of multiple countries seem to disagree with you.


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## musicninja17 (Feb 9, 2012)

DaKrazedKyubizt said:


> .... I'm sure most of you can't take me seriously because I'm using table tennis to make a comparison, which to most people is a poor excuse for a sport, but that's okay. I'm quite alright with that.


 
Actually i'd say more people consider table tennis a sport than cubing. And it is a good analogy btw.


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## tx789 (Feb 9, 2012)

SO dayan first ten v cube take out the other compians one by one is this what they are going to do?


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## The Bloody Talon (Feb 9, 2012)

maybe a stupid idea.. but do you think that there will be a possibility that the seven towns will buy/adopt the dayan's design?


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## Jason Paris (Feb 9, 2012)

I think it's important to note here just how powerful the community is in this industry. Don't underestimate the power of a boycott. Verdes suffered immensely last time they tried to 'flex', and whether or not they admit it, I'm sure that a great deal of the decision to drop the issue was due to this communities reaction. I believe that if we put pressure on Rubiks, they may chose a more respectable way of protecting their business.


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## Cubenovice (Feb 9, 2012)

radmin said:


> The one pdf stated that eastsheen didn't infringe because of the purple side. They can just ship with no stickers.



No, Eastsheen Intelligence cube was not subjet to being blocked from entering the US market because it was a 4x4x4.
16 colored blocks vs 9 colored blocks on the trademarked item.

The Magic cube was blocked because it was 3x3 with * some colors *matching the trademark. The cubes brought up in the document even had three different colorschemes but the deciding factor seems to be "some" colors being the same.


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## The Bloody Talon (Feb 9, 2012)

Jason Paris said:


> I believe that if we put pressure on Rubiks, they may chose a more respectable way of protecting their business.


 
i think the majority of rubik's costumers are not speedcubers.


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## EeeeeWarne (Feb 9, 2012)

> The RUBIK'S CUBE® in its three dimensional form and any graphic or photographic representation of it, in any configuration, coloured or uncoloured, whether it carries the RUBIK'S CUBE® name or logo, is protected by intellectual property laws throughout the world.



This is from the Rubik's website. Is this inaccurate? I thought that having a cube with purple stickers and a DaYan logo would be fine, but it seems the whole concept of a 3x3 is trademarked...according to the website, here: http://www.rubiks.com/company/image_rights.php

Also, I don't understand how a boycott of Rubiks' products would work. No speedcuber buys from them anyway...


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## Godmil (Feb 9, 2012)

EeeeeWarne said:


> This is from the Rubik's website. Is this inaccurate?



That's what they claim. But if it would hold up in court is another matter... However, Seven Towns has a lot more money for lawyers than any other cubing company, so I doubt anyone would want to test them.


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## Coltee (Feb 9, 2012)

Anyone has a picture of the purple stickers? I like purple but i'm afraid it's gonna be very dark and hard to recognize.


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## MichaelErskine (Feb 9, 2012)

EeeeeWarne said:


> Also, I don't understand how a boycott of Rubiks' products would work. No speedcuber buys from them anyway...


Many here have plenty of Rubik's products in their collections. This whole thing will blow over and not affect individuals buying their DIYs in kit form from China. Nothing to see here. Move along...


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## cmhardw (Feb 9, 2012)

I have a thought experiment. I don't understand all of the applicable laws and business market strategies, which is why I bring it up here.

Someone already mentioned this in this thread (apologies for being in too much of a rush to find the quote, but I do give credit to this thread for this idea):

What if Seventowns bought out DaYan and made them an official part of their company? Sort of a "Speedcube" division?


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## Godmil (Feb 9, 2012)

Interesting idea... Bao would loose control of his company... but would probably get a ton of money for it, and Seven Towns distribution network would see Dayan cubes in a ton of stores.
Seven Towns would get a ton of new product to sell, including an official 'world record speedcube'. Only thing is I think they'd concentrate on the fewest number of products... like maybe just the Zhanchi and not want to replace it with a new model in 6months time.


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## ThomasJE (Feb 9, 2012)

When I started solving the Rubik's Cube, I had never heard of Dayan or any other cube companies. It was only when I seriously got into it that I learned about these companies. Rubik aims their products to the general public, and Dayan aim their products to serious speedcubers. Last time I checked, most of the general public weren't serious speedcubers. This WILL ruin speedcubing; and the only happy person will be Feliks - his record would stand forever .

Oh, and when someone starts a petition, let me know.


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## andyfreeman (Feb 9, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> When I started solving the Rubik's Cube, I had never heard of Dayan or any other cube companies. It was only when I seriously got into it that I learned about these companies.


 
I know what you mean. I started with a Rubiks. I was happy with my 2 mins solve time. Then I discovered Justin Bieber could do one in 1.30 odd. That was it, I had to get faster and I was hooked on it. In looking for ways of becoming faster I stumbled on this site, and was like, "what, there are OTHER cubes???".

Oh what it was like to be a naive non-cuber.


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## Schmidt (Feb 9, 2012)

ThomasJE said:


> .... and the only happy person will be Feliks - his record would stand forever .


I would be happy too, as I could say "I own the best speed cube ever to be made!"



andyfreeman said:


> I was happy with my 2 mins solve time. Then I discovered Justin Bieber could do one in 1.30 odd.



For me, it was a 55s solve by Will Smith.


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## Windsor (Feb 9, 2012)

I honestly think that it would be easiest to swap black for yellow, then use slightly lighter blue stickers. This would make it so that instead of a blue-purple red-orange white-yellow orientation, it would be white-black, red-orange, green-blue(slightly lighter). This way with the black and slightly lighter blue stickers it wouldn't contest as much as with putting purple next to blue. Well that's my idea anyway


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## Chrisandstuff (Feb 9, 2012)

I think a good color scheme would be to change white to black and change blue to purple. Then you have Black-Yellow Green-Purple Red-Orange this changes 2 colors which could avoid the trademark. Also If to change the scheme just a bit more make the green lighter then half of the colors are different then the Rubik's brand cubes and it still keeps the same color scheme (more or less).


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## Godmil (Feb 9, 2012)

Schmidt said:


> For me, it was a 55s solve by Will Smith.



That video actually has him only do the last layer.

And guys, the trademark says it's for all colour combinations or even blank cubes. A few colour swaps won't stop Seven Towns if they really want to push it.


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## Ickathu (Feb 9, 2012)

Godmil said:


> And guys, the trademark says it's for all colour combinations or even blank cubes. A few colour swaps won't stop Seven Towns if they really want to push it.


Theoretically, Seven Towns could sue someone for selling 27 equally sized blocks all stacked up to form a cube, correct? If you place these blocks a little closer together, from the outside it appears as though you have a blank, white, Rubik's Cube.


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## cubernya (Feb 9, 2012)

SevenTowns does not have a patent/copyright on the cube itself, which seems to be what you are talking about.


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## Ickathu (Feb 9, 2012)

theZcuber said:


> SevenTowns does not have a patent/copyright on the cube itself, which seems to be what you are talking about.





> Seven Towns Ltd owns all the international rights in the RUBIK trademarks and in the *overall image of the RUBIK'S CUBE®*


Image Rights
If I put stickers on the block of 27 cubes (Resulting in something like this:


Spoiler










)
and hand show it to a random person on the street, they will, 99 times out of 100, say it is a Rubik's Cube.


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## The Bloody Talon (Feb 9, 2012)

cmhardw said:


> What if Seventowns bought out DaYan and made them an official part of their company? Sort of a "Speedcube" division?


 
ehem? 

do they really need to buy dayan's company? 
they can simply copy dayan's design because they are not patented. (are they patented? I'm not sure) 
but if they copy dayan's design, they will have bad impression from the public.
and I'm contradicting myself.


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## ThomasJE (Feb 10, 2012)

The Bloody Talon said:


> ...they can simply copy dayan's design because they are not patented. (are they patented? I'm not sure)
> but if they copy dayan's design, they will have bad impression from the public.
> and I'm contradicting myself.


 
They are patented in China at least. The ZhanChi has patent numbers *looks at box* 200920151642.6 and 201020545043.5. Just an example.


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## Pixel 6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Placed an order today for a fairly large amount of cubes. 

Testing a strategy I came up with, and talked to my wholesaler about to avoid problems with customs, even if they open the box, and know about the "Rubik's trademark / counterfeit issue". 

They should be allowed to pass through as they are not in violation of either issue.

Sucks to even need to worry about these things though.

Wish me luck!

- Pixel -


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## Schmidt (Feb 14, 2012)

You are hereby wished luck.

The thing you came up with; is it really clever or very obvious??


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## TpmmasoBTDZ (Feb 21, 2012)

emolover said:


> I swear 10% of people like purple. I am glad I like it.


 XD, same I'm actually glad about this new color scheme. Ive always bought purple or pink instead of my orange or red on my 3x3's. Also I think Rubiks is making no money at all so they attack big companies like dayan and dayan just changed scheme and now seven towns is like, F***.


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## Iggy (Feb 21, 2012)

I don't really care. As said before, we can easily replace the stickers. But it would be easier if the stickers were of higher quality and with orange instead of purple.


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## Mudkip (Feb 21, 2012)

Aww, but Orange is my cross color..
I could get used to purple though.


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## TimMc (Feb 26, 2012)

iEnjoyCubing said:


> I think it's slightly ridiculous. People have become so accustomed to that color scheme solving wise that switching it to purple can throw off peoples' times slightly. The only thing that this will do is increase the sales of extra/orange stickers from places like CubeSmith


 
I usually replace the stickers on a new cube with a half-bright set of Cubesmith or Z stickers.

If you haven't heard of Z stickers then please read below to save yourself some hassle when replacing purple stickers:

Some similarities between Cubesmith and Z stickers:

They both use Oracle
They both offer standard, half-bright, full-bright sets etc.
They're both around the US$1-2 mark for a 3x3 set.

Some differences with Z stickers:

They're cut for specific cubes (e.g. ss4, w2, s2, dayan zhanchi, dayan lingyun etc)
They're spaced out appropriately so that you can quickly apply the stickers to one face at a time

Tim.


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## advincubing (Jun 25, 2012)

Is there any chance that, instead of switching to purple, they merely started reversing the red and orange faces vis-a-vis the others? I ask because I just ordered two new Zhanchis (both black) from amazon at the same time. One arrived with the standard scheme. The other arrived with orange and red reversed. I've attached a picture comparing the two. Either it's a QC problem or was done on purpose (perhaps due to the suit)? Anyone else receive mis-stickered ones?

Doesn't much matter since I'm re-stickering tonight.....


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## Hippolyte!!! (Jun 26, 2012)

You don't have to re-stickers it, just disassemble the red and orange pieces (not just the cube), and then reassemble with the scheme you want.


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## advincubing (Jun 26, 2012)

Hippolyte!!! said:


> You don't have to re-stickers it, just disassemble the red and orange pieces (not just the cube), and then reassemble with the scheme you want.


I don't think that's exactly right. Unless I'm just exhausted and not thinking about this correctly, take the yellow/orange/green corner piece as an example. In a conventionally-stickered cube, if you have yellow up, it would have green front and orange right (or orange front and green left); with yellow up, green is clockwise from orange. The corner in the mis-stickered one has yellow up, orange front, green right -- with green counter-clockwise from orange. So, it's not just a matter of re-assembly....

Right?

But I always resticker with bright cubesmith stickers, anyway.


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## Daniel Wu (Jun 26, 2012)

Well, you could just take the corner apart and reassemble each individual corner so that the color scheme is correct.


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## advincubing (Jun 26, 2012)

rickcube said:


> Well, you could just take the corner apart and reassemble each individual corner so that the color scheme is correct.


That's true! Hadn't thought about disassembling each corner....

Anyway, more than anything, just interesting to get a funky (but fixable) copy.


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## ducttapecuber (Jul 26, 2012)

is this still a problem? Or has it been resolved?


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## mdolszak (Jul 26, 2012)

ducttapecuber said:


> is this still a problem? Or has it been resolved?


I've been wondering that, too. It seems like Dayan kept with the regular orange stickers.


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## sa11297 (Jul 26, 2012)

mdolszak said:


> I've been wondering that, too. It seems like Dayan kept with the regular orange stickers.



most of the cubes I have ordered had orange stickers, but one had purple, so I am not sure what is up.


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## Cheese11 (Jul 27, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> most of the cubes I have ordered had orange stickers, but one had purple, so I am not sure what is up.



Almost every new cube you get from Dayan will have a purple side instead of orange.

IT'S MY 1000th POST!


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## Endgame (Jul 27, 2012)

Now if this colour scheme would be pushed by every cube manufacturer I'd actually be glad to use the standard stickers.


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## mdolszak (Jul 27, 2012)

Cheese11 said:


> Almost every new cube you get from Dayan will have a purple side instead of orange.
> 
> IT'S MY 1000th POST!


Haha congrats on 1000!

On topic, I bought a Guhong v2 from Lightake at the beginning of July, and it came with the standard (orange) stickers.


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## Human hybrid87 (Jul 27, 2012)

mdolszak said:


> Haha congrats on 1000!
> 
> On topic, I bought a Guhong v2 from Lightake at the beginning of July, and it came with the standard (orange) stickers.



I bought a guhong v2 from the forum shop and it had purple stickers 

Oh well just waiting on my cube smith half brights now


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## Penguinstorm300 (Jul 27, 2012)

If you want to change the purple for an orange on a stickerless cube, where would you get the orange pieces?


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## MarcelP (Jul 27, 2012)

Penguinstorm300 said:


> If you want to change the purple for an orange on a stickerless cube, where would you get the orange pieces?



Google Cubesmith


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## Penguinstorm300 (Jul 27, 2012)

MarcelP said:


> Google Cubesmith



I meant stickerless cubes, like the Stickerless Dayan Zhanchi, not tiled cubes.


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## Endgame (Jul 27, 2012)

Dye them


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## peterbone (Jul 27, 2012)

Penguinstorm300 said:


> If you want to change the purple for an orange on a stickerless cube, where would you get the orange pieces?


Buy the all orange DIY cube. Better still just buy 6 DIY cubes, one in each of the colours you want and build 6 stickerless cubes from them - sell any you don't want to keep.


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## solvelecewbe (Jul 27, 2012)

Is this thing still going on?


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## Hunter (Jul 30, 2012)

Here is a picture of the brand new (yet to be released) 42mm Zhanchi mini cube, its stickerless and has purple insted of blue. Blue was my favorite color... 

Actually....that looks like a blueish purple. It could be blue but the color was distorted by their camera.

http://www.hknowstore.com/locale/en...e&itemid=d14097af-89ba-4ff6-a5f1-c0bf2c1cc182


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## mtravilla (Jul 30, 2012)

Hunter said:


> Here is a picture of the brand new (yet to be released) 42mm Zhanchi mini cube, its stickerless and has purple insted of blue. Blue was my favorite color...
> 
> Actually....that looks like a blueish purple. It could be blue but the color was distorted by their camera.
> 
> http://www.hknowstore.com/locale/en...e&itemid=d14097af-89ba-4ff6-a5f1-c0bf2c1cc182



Not to sound rude, but it looks blue to me. They still kept the blue. It's probably the lighting in the picture that made the blue look purple.


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## Hunter (Jul 30, 2012)

mtravilla said:


> Not to sound rude, but it looks blue to me. They still kept the blue. It's probably the lighting in the picture that made the blue look purple.



So here is the stickerless 42mm, and the standard Zhanchi colors next to each other. (Both pictures from HKNow)

http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/1/3/3/1/6/a5046899-57-purpleofblu.jpg


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## mtravilla (Jul 30, 2012)

Hmm I still think it's blue. But, idk, I might just be color blind.


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## Hunter (Jul 30, 2012)

You are probably right. If you look at the one on the left, the plastic looks lighter, but so does the background.

I guess we will have to wait and see.


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## Kattenvriendin (Jul 30, 2012)

It'll likely be blue, we'll have to wait and see. If there is an odd color on mine I will definitely post pictures


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## ThtDarnNeighbor (Jul 31, 2012)

wait so is this still a thing?

damn seventowns

i dont understand why dayan doesnt just assemble the red and orange wrong then people can just disassemble it and make it normal agian...


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## drewsopchak (Jul 31, 2012)

ThtDarnNeighbor said:


> wait so is this still a thing?
> 
> damn seventowns
> 
> i dont understand why dayan doesnt just assemble the red and orange wrong then people can just disassemble it and make it normal agian...



Someone ought to suggest this to Dayan.


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## cubernya (Jul 31, 2012)

The mark consists of a black cube having nine color patches on each of its six faces with the color patches on each face being the same and consisting of the colors red, white, blue, green, yellow and orange. The drawing is lined for the colors red and green. The remaining colors -- white, blue, yellow, and orange -- do not appear in the drawing, but are claimed as a feature of the mark. (U.S. Trademark Registration No. 75,105,330).

This means that just switching 2 colors isn't a solution, since it doesn't specify the arrangement. The only way DaYan can get out of it according to this is to change a color


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## Hunter (Jul 31, 2012)

So this does not affect white cubes or colored cubes?


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## sa11297 (Aug 1, 2012)

I think either way this problem is stupid. How does seven towns even benefit from this?


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## Endgame (Aug 1, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> How does seven towns even benefit from this?


not


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## sa11297 (Aug 1, 2012)

Endgame said:


> not


do you mean they do not? your post is unclear.


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## Endgame (Aug 1, 2012)

sa11297 said:


> do you mean they do not? your post is unclear.


ok lets try this again



sa11297 said:


> How does seven towns even benefit from this?


they don't


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## grommuz (Aug 7, 2012)

didnt read all comments, but solution: Dayan sends you un-stickered cube with separate stickers...


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## Ooi Yan Qing (Aug 7, 2012)

why rubik company fighting for that?? why don't they just create a cube that is better than dayan cube??


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## Chrisandstuff (Aug 7, 2012)

I just recieved my zhanchi mini DIY kit and it came with the normal stickers =) maybe it wasnt a problem because it was a DIY but still im glad its the standard colors.


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## hcfong (Aug 7, 2012)

Ooi Yan Qing said:


> why rubik company fighting for that?? why don't they just create a cube that is better than dayan cube??



Because speedcubers who are interested in speedcubes are only a small minority of people who buy Rubik's cubes. It's not worth their while to spend money and time on developing and producing a proper speedcube, when only a small group of people will be interested in them.


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## KrazyCube (Jan 13, 2013)

It said it was going after Dayan, so you could use a FangCun which is a knockoff of a Zhanchi and the WCA would have to allow it.you could use V-Cube (who does this stuff also hint:GuHong) ,Shengshou, FangCun or even Rubik's (Haha LOL) and if they spread to them companies we will just have to use purple. simple as, or you could change white to black and that would be legal because it isn't there colour scheme because black is facing yellow and white should


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## panyan (Jan 13, 2013)

waffle=ijm said:


> support cubesmith, buy orange stickers



+1


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## aznanimedude (Jun 21, 2013)

i'm necroing this but apparently there's still some tuffles with copyrights.


apparently someone ordered cubes from china and they got stopped at customs. he's being offered a brand spanking new rubiks speed cube in compensation


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## uniacto (Jun 21, 2013)

aznanimedude said:


> i'm necroing this but apparently there's still some tuffles with copyrights.
> 
> 
> apparently someone ordered cubes from china and they got stopped at customs. he's being offered a brand spanking new rubiks speed cube in compensation



where do you get this information from?


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## solvelecewbe (Jun 21, 2013)

uniacto said:


> where do you get this information from?








Link to Reddit thread:http://www.reddit.com/r/Cubers/comments/1gqbit/rubiks_copyright_wtf_they_are_giving_me_big_and/


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 21, 2013)

Why are they doing this? Most people out there still buy Rubik's brand cubes. I'd say the speedcubes that are out there are actually making Rubik's brand cubes more popular because if you are a non-cuber and see speedcubers playing with their cubes you may develop an interest and go buy one at a store which will probably be a Rubik's brand. If people were only allowed to buy Rubik's brand cubes, speedcubing as a hobby would kind of die.


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## YddEd (Jun 21, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Why are they doing this? Most people out there still buy Rubik's brand cubes. I'd say the speedcubes that are out there are actually making Rubik's brand cubes more popular because if you are a non-cuber and see speedcubers playing with their cubes you may develop an interest and go buy one at a store which will probably be a Rubik's brand. If people were only allowed to buy Rubik's brand cubes, speedcubing as a hobby would kind of die.


I actually got a Rubiks brand just because I thought someone had a modded Rubiks brand lol


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## windhero (Jun 21, 2013)

Holy crap what is this  What gives the custom officials the right to destroy the cubes because of a "copyright infringement"? Rubiks patent is off and the mechanics are completely different. It's like I was buying a Ferrari which is destroyed by the custom officials because Mercedes Benz got all pissy since they invented the modern car first. But ah, no worries. Benz is sending me a replacement from their factory. WHAT?


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## t3ddy (Jun 21, 2013)

What the hell? The mechanics are nothing like in a rubik's cube (plus i think i heard that rubik's patent has run out). and destroying the cubes just because of the color scheme is just stupid. if they really wouldn't want to give me my cubes just because of the stickers, i'd tell them to peel the stickers off so they couldn't complain anymore (would actually save me some work, as i'd be replacing them anyway). 
and giving you some $#&%/ rubiks 3x3 (which just costs them money) isn't even an option 

i had like 2 or 3 rubik's brand 3x3s, a 4x4 and the 2x2x4, so i think i supported them more than enough considering the quality of their products

seems like i got even more reasons to only buy DIYs now ..


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## aznanimedude (Jun 21, 2013)

uniacto said:


> where do you get this information from?



that's super strange, i was sure i had posted the reddit link o.o but it's not in my post.........i must be derp


----------



## CubezUBR (Jun 21, 2013)

cant a cube shop or company just sell a cube un-stickered and provide the stickers with the product so you can sticker it at home?


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## BaMiao (Jun 21, 2013)

windhero said:


> Holy crap what is this  What gives the custom officials the right to destroy the cubes because of a "copyright infringement"? Rubiks patent is off and the mechanics are completely different. It's like I was buying a Ferrari which is destroyed by the custom officials because Mercedes Benz got all pissy since they invented the modern car first. But ah, no worries. Benz is sending me a replacement from their factory. WHAT?



This isn't a patent issue. The "copyright infringement" refers to the color scheme used, which doesn't follow the same laws that patents do. Color schemes can be copyrighted, just like text on a page or notes in a melody.


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## I77O (Jun 21, 2013)

Would it work if Dayan would change white to grey? To me that wouldn't screw up recognition, but would Seven Towns be happy about it I don't know.


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## Username (Jun 21, 2013)

I77O said:


> Would it work if Dayan would change white to grey? To me that wouldn't screw up recognition, but would Seven Towns be happy about it I don't know.



I'd rather just buy a diy kit.

They could also apply purple instead of orange, and send a set of orange in the box


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## I77O (Jun 21, 2013)

Yeah I do agree with that. It just seems weird that they are after the color orientation and not the actual colors. But if buying DIY kits solve the problem I don't see why it is such a huge thing then.


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## qqwref (Jun 21, 2013)

Honestly, given the text of the copyright, it might be enough to simply sticker 5 sides (as long as you don't leave the white side unstickered on a white cube). Of course, there are many things which Seven Towns would claim as copyright violations even if they technically aren't, and realistically, it would be far too expensive to fight it. A cube seizure like this might cost one person a few dozen or even hundred dollars, but to get a lawyer to look over the copyright and force them to give you the cubes back could easily run into the thousands.


----------



## BerserkerProMC (Jun 21, 2013)

Tim Major said:


> Yay purple.
> I don't care about this at all. I can resticker it if I want. What's the big deal?


Maybe if the WCA follows these rules, they have to check if the cube is a Rubik's brand, and if it's not, they would have to check for the purple stickers... Idk... I'm just guessing.


----------



## frenzen (Jun 22, 2013)

man dont ever buy rubiks brand, no matter what I dare you.


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## jonlin (Jun 22, 2013)

What was this video about?


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## frenzen (Jun 22, 2013)

Color Scheme Copyright meaning that Dayan wont able to sell you their cubes with normal scheme and there are some people who bought their cubes and didnt receive them, since seven towns filled a copyright and etc. They want cubers to buy rubiks cube brand and are sponsoring 2013. Just watch the video

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUO25orCVCU


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## PeelingStickers (Jun 22, 2013)

The WCA regulations are not based on the brand and allows "KO's". It does not matter what cube you use, it will be legal in competition so long as the function of the puzzle is the same.


----------



## Yuxuibbs (Jun 22, 2013)

I would be fine with having 2 colors swapped so it wouldn't be copyrighted. You can just take apart the edges/corners and put them back together in the right color scheme.


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## YddEd (Jun 22, 2013)

Yuxuibbs said:


> I would be fine with having 2 colors swapped so it wouldn't be copyrighted. You can just take apart the edges/corners and put them back together in the right color scheme.


And if you don't have a Dayan cube..?


----------



## Michael Womack (Jun 22, 2013)

PeelingStickers said:


> The WCA regulations are not based on the brand and allows "KO's". It does not matter what cube you use, it will be legal in competition so long as the function of the puzzle is the same.



I agree with this. But for a puzzle to me Competition legal has to be in compliant with article 3 of the WCA regulations see http://worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#article-3-puzzles and Article 3M states this "All brands of puzzles and puzzle parts are permitted, as long as the puzzles comply with all WCA Regulations."


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## Yuxuibbs (Jun 22, 2013)

YddEd said:


> And if you don't have a Dayan cube..?



buy new stickers
or just hope the mechanism allows it to happen? 

a lot of people prefer half brights and stuff so people are going to resticker anyway


----------



## Username (Jun 22, 2013)

strakerak said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMoR6gnwbGU


You don't need to spam that


----------



## AvGalen (Jun 22, 2013)

For me it is very obvious that everyone is copying the colors of the official Rubik's cube and that they are doing that on purpose to get extra sales.
I don't want to argue about IF a colorscheme should be possible to be protected by law, because that is useless. Obviously it CAN be protected and HAS been protected.
V-Cube and EastSheen know this and avoided the colorscheme.
Lots of other companies are trying to make their cubes look just like the official one and that is clearly against the law (like it or not).

Why do all these other companies not just sell cubes with red opposite to green, or black/purple/grey/whatever other colors? It would require a minimal change for them to comply with the law but they prefer to break it anyway. The only reason that I can think of is that they gain financially.


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## BrainOfSweden (Jun 22, 2013)

But the speedcubing companies would know that even if they change their color scheme, only sell DIY's, sell them unstickered or whatever, we, their target audience will still buy them if they are good, and likely resticker them anyway. 

The cheap KO's on the other hand of course wants to look as Rubiks-like as possible, and I don't mind them being shut down, because they are the ones hurting Seven Towns financially and possibly reputation wise too, if people think they bought a Rubik's brand that's even crappier than the real deal.


----------



## Stefan (Jun 22, 2013)

AvGalen said:


> Why do all these other companies not just sell cubes with red opposite to green, or black/purple/grey/whatever other colors? It would require a minimal change for them to comply with the law but they prefer to break it anyway. The only reason that I can think of is that they gain financially.



How about the obvious? I don't want that color scheme because it's Rubik's, I want it because I'm used to it and am best with it. Not all schemes are equal, this one is now functionally better than others.

This is nothing like the actually despicable unnecessary copying like these:










Same continent colors, same stand. Why? No functional reason. Purely to look like the original.









Similar purplish+black background, similar logo, same slogan "the 21st century cube". Why? No functional reason. Purely to look like the original.
(I believe I've even seen a clone using V-Cube's triangular packaging, though I was unable to find it again now. Anyone?)


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## Michael Womack (Jun 22, 2013)

Pochmann what about The Ruibik's clock and the newer ones?


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## ben1996123 (Jun 22, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> Pochmann what about The Ruibik's clock and the newer ones?



not sure if you've realised but clock doesnt have stickers


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## Michael Womack (Jun 22, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> not sure if you've realised but clock doesnt have stickers



This is true nether did the Rubik's World that Pochmann mentioned.


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## ben1996123 (Jun 22, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> This is true nether did the Rubik's World that Pochmann mentioned.



yeah but that has colours on it


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## Stefan (Jun 22, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> Pochmann what about The Ruibik's clock and the newer ones?



Right, I didn't think of those. Very good example indeed. Especially this one which copies the look of the puzzle and the box and uses "Rubik's".

(Womack right and Ben wrong, what the hell is happening?)


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## The Doctor (Jun 22, 2013)

I agree with the fact that Rubik's is protecting their image from some knock offs, and that DaYan (and other companies if need be) are complying with it, but instead of just a new color scheme or selling their stickers, why don't they just try to get permission from Seven Towns? And if Rubik's really wants to get to the speed-cubers of the world too, then they need to make speed-cubes? Five years working on a speed cube design? Hope it's worth that time. And that article about speed cubing and how Rubik's isn't used in it, sounds like it was written by someone who's heard the word speed-cube once. 
Of course we don't use Rubik's, they do realize how bad their cubes are when it comes to speed right? Yes, like all people I started with their brands, smoothing the inside, lubing it, I even took the rivets out and managed to get a good screw and spring thing on mine, but in the end, they suck. And they say that we're sacrificing durability for speed? I bought a Rubik's brand 3x3 a few months ago (for modding purposes) and around the same time I got a new DaYan Zhanchi, as I wanted a stickered one, and I used the Rubik's brand, so rarely, it wasn't even existent, when I was really cubing, just when I was working on my schematics for the modding stuff I'm working on, so it just sat on their little display thing. It's practically useless now, from non-usage for a few months, it doesn't even turn anymore, it's a paperweight, at it's finest moment. But my ZhanChi, which I didn't use as often either, due to having a better main, still turns perfectly, and even the stickers that came with it outlasted the others, which were peeling in a week. 
So just try to compete with the speed-cube shops, not inhibit their sales, you're already the number one most bought item in the world Rubik's Brand Cube, you're still selling other stuff, and their also knocking off a few people themselves, so yeah.


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## Yuxuibbs (Jun 22, 2013)

Stefan said:


> Similar purplish+black background, similar logo, same slogan "the 21st century cube". Why? No functional reason. Purely to look like the original.
> (I believe I've even seen a clone using V-Cube's triangular packaging, though I was unable to find it again now. Anyone?)



I'll post a picture of my x cube 7 packaging when I find a camera. it's literally the v cube triangular packaging but with an X instead of a V.

EDIT: or you could just watch my unboxing I didn't have a decent camera at the time but it's obvious enough


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## Stefan (Jun 22, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> And that article about speed cubing and how Rubik's isn't used in it, sounds like it was written by someone who's heard the word speed-cube once.



What does that matter? I think it's a pretty good article.



Yuxuibbs said:


> EDIT: or you could just watch my unboxing I didn't have a decent camera at the time but it's obvious enough



That's it! Thanks.


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## CarlBrannen (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm more familiar with patent law than copyright law but it seems that they're similar enough.

Patents infringement cases are sometimes pursued as "active inducement of infringement" which would apply to a DIY kit. Copyright law also includes "active inducement of infringement". These apply when the person who actually physically violates the patent / copyright is the buyer, but a company is helping them do this. Where you've probably seen "active inducement of infringement" in the news media is the violation of copyright law with regard to file sharing. This is how the big companies get sued when it's the individuals who actually violated the law. If you haven't seen this, here's a New York Law Journal article that describes the situation:
http://www.bakerlaw.com/files/Uploa...LLECTUAL PROPERTY/Brown,P_NYLJ_March_2010.pdf

So even if a DIY kit doesn't violate the copyright, the kit induces the buyer to violate it. Thus a DIY kit that can be assembled to a puzzle that violates the copyright law will also be covered by copyright law.

If this is correct, and if it is true that changing the colors is sufficient to avoid the copyright (which is something a court has to decide), then the way to get around the copyright is to either use different colors on the cube and to send a DIY kit with stickers with different colors. I.e. 

You can google "active inducement of infringement" to learn more.

I wonder if WCA could also be liable for copyright violation by allowing copyright violation to occur at its matches.


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## AvGalen (Jun 22, 2013)

Stefan said:


> How about the obvious? I don't want that color scheme because it's Rubik's, I want it because I'm used to it and am best with it. Not all schemes are equal, this one is now functionally better than others.


You want that colorscheme because you are better on it. You want a Dayan because you are better on it. That doesn't mean Dayan has the right to sell you what you want without making a deal with Seventowns. What you want and what you can get are not always the same.

The work around is so incredibly easy. Just sell cubes without stickers on it or make a deal with Seven Towns and pay them a bit.



CarlBrannen said:


> So even if a DIY kit doesn't violate the copyright, the kit induces the buyer to violate it. Thus a DIY kit that can be assembled to a puzzle that violates the copyright law will also be covered by copyright law.


No, it won't because it can also be assembled in many other ways that don't violate the copyright law so the one that actually decides how to put the stickers on is not the seller so the seller is in the clear.

(this is not the same situation as a shirt with a fake Puma logo included because obviously that fake logo is a Trademark infringement already and the only reason to include that logo is to create a fake Puma shirt


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## vince (Jun 22, 2013)

if the problem is the colour scheme... who knows, maybe selling a cube scrambled is legal!? It would be a pain to control if a scrambled cube have a certain scheme. not immediate, i think.


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## Johnny (Jun 23, 2013)

Just putting in my two cents... Dayans are not a knockoff of Rubik's cubes because knockoffs are lower quality. A higher quality product is a new invention, not a knockoff.


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## cyoubx (Jun 23, 2013)

Johnny said:


> Just putting in my two cents... Dayans are not a knockoff of Rubik's cubes because knockoffs are lower quality. A higher quality product is a new invention, not a knockoff.



Wut. Dat logic.

Even buying into that way of thinking, what makes DaYan cubes higher quality? Just because more people use them for speedcubing doesn't mean they're higher quality.
Rubik's brand cubes happen to be incredibly sturdy and the fact that they're hard to pop means that they're less of a choking hazard for unsuspecting toddlers.


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## Michael Womack (Jun 23, 2013)

I own some Rubik's brand Cubes and allot of other cubes that have the same color scheme of the Rubik's Brand. But most of my cube that aren't Rubik's brand there sticker colors aren't the same shade as Rubik's. So I would say that Rubik's is messed up.


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## Johnny (Jun 23, 2013)

Cyoubx, you're right.

But it's still not a knock off because the internal structure is different.

If Dayan's cubes are a knock off of the Rubik's brand cubes, then Rubik's brand cubes are a knock off of Pyraminx.

And OMG, I was just watching your videos. I love your channel, Cyoubx. In fact, you just responded to one of my questions on your facebook page.


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## cubernya (Jun 23, 2013)

Johnny said:


> then Rubik's brand cubes are a knock off of Pyraminx



Pyraminx was made after the Rubik's brand cube


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## Johnny (Jun 23, 2013)

theZcuber said:


> Pyraminx was made after the Rubik's brand cube


I thought it was made before


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## Michael Womack (Jun 23, 2013)

theZcuber said:


> Pyraminx was made after the Rubik's brand cube



Nope before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyraminx It was the 3x3x3 Rubik's cube that Erno Rubik invented that gave the Idea to Uwe Meffert to mass produce it.


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## qqwref (Jun 23, 2013)

cyoubx said:


> Rubik's brand cubes happen to be incredibly sturdy and the fact that they're hard to pop means that they're less of a choking hazard for unsuspecting toddlers.


Actually, I'm not so convinced they're sturdy... the cores tend to break easily if you drop the cube (probably from the tension) and as everyone knows the stickers wear out very quickly. They certainly are harder to pop than a speedcube, but if you tighten a speedcube as much as Rubik's Cubes come out of the package, it would probably be just as unpoppable.


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## cyoubx (Jun 23, 2013)

qqwref said:


> Actually, I'm not so convinced they're sturdy... the cores tend to break easily if you drop the cube (probably from the tension) and as everyone knows the stickers wear out very quickly. They certainly are harder to pop than a speedcube, but if you tighten a speedcube as much as Rubik's Cubes come out of the package, it would probably be just as unpoppable.



I was contrasting reviews from a Rubik's brand and some of the speedcubes we use. The general public tends not to like speedcubes very much since they fall apart relatively easily and the ability to tension a speedcube isn't inherently obvious to general consumers.

But yes, I understand your point.


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## Apansy (Jun 23, 2013)

Dayan and other vendors should just leave the puzzle un-stickered (stickers come in the package) and then the user can sticker it however they want. I know it is inconvenient, especially for higher ordered puzzles, but that is one reasonable way to work around it. If Seven Towns wants to start a law suit against every individual that uses their colour scheme, then they would be fighting thousands of people. The puzzle vendors could even sticker 4 sides of the puzzle and leave the last 2 'up to you'.


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## CarlBrannen (Jun 23, 2013)

AvGalen said:


> No, it won't because it can also be assembled in many other ways that don't violate the copyright law so the one that actually decides how to put the stickers on is not the seller so the seller is in the clear. (this is not the same situation as a shirt with a fake Puma logo included because obviously that fake logo is a Trademark infringement already and the only reason to include that logo is to create a fake Puma shirt



Unfortunately, my read of copyright and patent law is that the purpose of the "inducement" rules is that they're there so people don't get around copyright law exactly the way you're describing. It's not enough that a DIY can be assembled in such a way that it is not a copyright violation. It also has to be the case that the DIY kits are not purchased with the intention of making them into copyright violating cubes. To show that this is the case, all they have to do is go on youtube and look at the footage of world champion solvers using Seven Towns' copyrighted color scheme on cubes that Seven Towers did not license or sell.

If Seven Towns did want to pursue DIY kits, they could argue that a DIY with Seven Towns colors is simply an obvious way of avoiding copyright law (that is, making it impossible to stop because it's committed by thousands of individuals instead of a single company). Pretty much any US judge will agree with them. Look at the case law on this, the legal principle is that it is illegal to assist other people in violating copyright law.


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## cyoubx (Jun 23, 2013)

CarlBrannen said:


> Pretty much any *US* judge will agree with them.



Why the U.S.?


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 23, 2013)

Wait... so our speedcubes are in fact illegal? Really?


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## JasonK (Jun 23, 2013)

cyoubx said:


> Why the U.S.?



I was wondering this too... Seven Towns is based in the UK isn't it? I have no idea how different UK and US law are in this area, but it's probably a bad ideato assume things just because they're true in America.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 23, 2013)

JasonK said:


> I was wondering this too... Seven Towns is based in the UK isn't it? I have no idea how different UK and US law are in this area, but it's probably a bad ideato assume things just because they're true in America.



I don't think CarlBrannen was assuming anything by talking about US judges. I think he only mentioned it because he's in the US and so he would be more familiar with US law than any other country's laws.


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## CarlBrannen (Jun 23, 2013)

cyoubx said:


> Why the U.S.?



I've never done any patent work anywhere but the US. Can't say what copyright law would be like elsewhere. I know that european patent law is significantly different from US, or at least it used to be. Last I heard the US was being brought to the more usual standard. The issue had to do with "first to file" versus "first to invent".



sneaklyfox said:


> Wait... so our speedcubes are in fact illegal? Really?



From what I've seen they are.

I think there's a very good reason why Seven Towns doesn't push it. In fact I'm a little surprised that they bother with packages with one or two cubes at the border to a retail customer. If I were them I'd only bother with mass shipments to businesses.

If they made a stink about it at the world cubing contest, for example, the whole story would get traction world-wide.

The inevitable result would be that millions of people would learn that there are other cube makers than Rubik and that there were ways to buy them. Dayan would start selling off-color cubes to US stores. It could end up cutting into Seven Towns' control of US retail market.

As it is, they risk having the story get out every time they mess around with an end user. I can't imagine why they'd do that. The risk / reward is incredibly negative. The last thing they want is for Walmart to be selling a Dayan non-Rubiks cube.

----

One of the things I'd like to do is to make up a few million speed cube advertising stickers. They would give the names of the world's best speed cubes and tell the reader to buy them on the internet. We pass them out at each cubing contest for free. When you get back home, you drop by Walmart and add these stickers to all their Rubiks cubes. Uh, of course I'm kidding, this would get us in trouble, the point is that getting reporters to talk about the fact that speed cubers don't use Rubiks cubes would be roughly equivalent to going into Walmart and putting a sticker on each Rubiks cube saying "you're a loser if you buy this cube."

The thing I find really annoying about this is that the usual reason for claiming that copyright law is in the interests of consumers (it's not, it's in the interest of copyright holders, obviously) is that it protects consumers from cheap knock-offs. But in this case, the copyright violators make a product which is far superior. So I don't think that Seven Towns would win in the court of public opinion on this. I just can't imagine why they would push it. It could be a big disaster for them.


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## Apansy (Jun 23, 2013)

cyoubx said:


> they're hard to pop means that they're less of a choking hazard for unsuspecting toddlers.


Hahaha! My original 1980's rubik's brand cube pops all the time. One time, (before I was as serious cuber) I was sitting on the toilet cubing and *POP* pieces fly everywhere and one goes straight between my legs.. PLOP! That piece was sterilised for a day and a bit  But yeah, that cube is very robust, I have dropped a heap, it even has it's original stickers that have a few chips and are over 30 years old (they have even been peeled off and put back on again by my Uncle).


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## SenileGenXer (Jun 23, 2013)

JasonK said:


> I was wondering this too... Seven Towns is based in the UK isn't it? I have no idea how different UK and US law are in this area, but it's probably a bad ideato assume things just because they're true in America.



Copyright is harmonized across many countries through the use of conventions. Representatives meet, hammer out how things should be dealt with. They adopt some of our protections we adopt some of theirs and always always expand the scope of copyright protections. Trade groups for rights holders inject some model language into it. Treaties are signed then then each countries legislature ratifies them. They pass internal law consistant with the treaty. Some things are interpreted differently. Some things legislatures just can't pass. Conventions have been going on for a very long time and the use of them is accelerating. Some practices are slightly different but the whole if it is very very similar and ever expanding. There is no breaking mechanism to cut copyright protection back.

A lot of copyright's chilling effects are outside the court. They don't involve law. They involve getting third parties to enforce your copyrights without a court order or a trial or a judge or a review. You can submit complaints to ebay to get them to ban sales of certain items. The appeal process is not seller friendly nor is it weighted remotely in your favor. We have seen right's holders lodge a complaint with paypal and that disappears from chinese stores without an appeal. Someone said in this thread that Seven Town could send a letter to the WCA and the WCA would have no choice. Think about that for a second.


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## SenileGenXer (Jun 23, 2013)

CarlBrannen said:


> The inevitable result would be that millions of people would learn that there are other cube makers than Rubik and that there were ways to buy them. Dayan would start selling off-color cubes to US stores. It could end up cutting into Seven Towns' control of US retail market.
> 
> As it is, they risk having the story get out every time they mess around with an end user. I can't imagine why they'd do that. The risk / reward is incredibly negative. The last thing they want is for Walmart to be selling a Dayan non-Rubiks cube.



The US retail market is a dying husk filled with really cheap plastic and things that absolutely fall apart in days or weeks. How many stores have gone out of business and what remains? Wallmart is well known for putting downward pressure on suppliers. They get the lowest price by asking suppliers to accept less money. I don't understand why you would want your sales there.

Amazon has an O.K. from it's shareholders to be revenue neutral and undercut every brick and mortar store that still limps along. Amazon sells DaYans and Shengshou. Suggests them to me when I search for Rubik's cube.


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## Stefan (Jun 23, 2013)

AvGalen said:


> You want that colorscheme because you are better on it. You want a Dayan because you are better on it. That doesn't mean Dayan has the right to sell you what you want without making a deal with Seventowns. What you want and what you can get are not always the same.



Um, I was just answering your _"Why do all these other companies not just sell cubes with red opposite to green, or black/purple/grey/whatever other colors?"_.



AvGalen said:


> The work around is so incredibly easy. Just sell cubes without stickers on it or make a deal with Seven Towns and pay them a bit.



1. It's unclear whether stickerless cubes are ok.
2. What makes you think Seven Towns would agree to such a deal?



AvGalen said:


> No, it won't because it can also be assembled in many other ways



Doesn't sound like that matters.


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## Stefan (Jun 23, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> Nope before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyraminx



But is there any evidence besides Uwe Meffert claiming so?



CarlBrannen said:


> the usual reason for claiming that copyright law is in the interests of consumers [...] is that it protects consumers from cheap knock-offs.



Really? That's not the usual reason I'm used to seeing. Which is to promote / give incentive to creation.

_"The mission of the Copyright Office is to promote creativity"_
_"the purpose of the copyright system has always been to promote creativity in society"_
-- The US Copyright Office

_"the contemporary intent of copyright is to promote the creation of new works"_
-- Wikipedia on copyright

Similar with patents:
_"in exchange for the public disclosure of the invention"_
_"Primary incentives embodied in the patent system include incentives to invent in the first place; to disclose the invention once made; to invest the sums necessary to experiment, produce and market the invention; and to design around and improve upon earlier patents."_
-- Wikipedia on patents


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## t3ddy (Jun 23, 2013)

cyoubx said:


> Wut. Dat logic.
> 
> Even buying into that way of thinking, what makes DaYan cubes higher quality? Just because more people use them for speedcubing doesn't mean they're higher quality.
> Rubik's brand cubes happen to be incredibly sturdy and the fact that they're hard to pop means that they're less of a choking hazard for unsuspecting toddlers.



I actually managed to break two rubiks brand cubes by just using them a lot. something i haven't managed to do with any dayan/fangshi. those actually get better with time unlike the rubiks brand. 

but i admit that rubik's are unpoppable, as i always needed a knife to get out a piece if i wanted to lube it.

Edit: thought about the quality for a bit and this is what i think: 
in this particular case the definition of quality is not the same for everyone. if you would drop a rubiks and a dayan the dayan would probably break first, but if you just solve them thousands of times the dayan cube would be in a much better shape than the rubiks (relative to the best the respective cube can be ofc)

so for a speedcuber dayan would be the better quality, but for people who would turn it a few times, manage to get one side and then put it back into the drawer, rubiks would seem superior.


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## BrainOfSweden (Jun 23, 2013)

t3ddy said:


> but i admit that rubik's are unpoppable, as i always needed a knife to get out a piece if i wanted to lube it.


Mine was so tight it needed to be pried open with a screw driver the first time, but after re-assembling it, it became much looser, and was from then on easy to disassemble with just my hands. Rubik's cubes seems to vary a lot in quality.


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## cubernya (Jun 23, 2013)

Why is everyone saying the speedcubes we own are illegal? They were illegal to sell (unless it wasn't stickered), but they're not illegal to own (or is that not what you're saying?)


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## Michael Womack (Jun 23, 2013)

theZcuber said:


> Why is everyone saying the speedcubes we own are illegal? They were illegal to sell (unless it wasn't stickered), but they're not illegal to own (or is that not what you're saying?)



I agree with that also there saying that we spent over $500 on twisty puzzles that are the fake Rubik's cubes.


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## cubernya (Jun 23, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> I agree with that also there saying that we spent over $500 on twisty puzzles that are the fake Rubik's cubes.



Where?


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## Johnny (Jun 23, 2013)

Rubik's expectation that everyone use their cubes because it's the original is like Magnavox expecting people to buy an Oddessy instead of a PS4 because Magnavox had the original console.


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## ZigzagCuber (Jun 28, 2013)

Does this copyright apply to other cubing companies such as Mo Yu and fhangshi? the reason i ask this is because it said on the forum that it is seven towns verses dayan, but it doesn't really specify if it apply's to other 3x3 brands of cubes. also does this colour scheme copyright apply to 2x2 or 4x4 or higher layer cubes? does it apply to other six sided puzzles such as gear cubes or square ones?


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## Qthulu (Jun 29, 2013)

ZigzagCuber said:


> also does this colour scheme copyright apply to 2x2 or 4x4 or higher layer cubes? does it apply to other six sided puzzles such as gear cubes or square ones?


This would be important for me to know, as I want to buy a Shengshou 9x9 in the next days, but don't want to risk my ordered cube to be confiscated. Also, there would be no satisfying replacement as there are no other 9x9's other than YJ and Shengshou on the market.


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## qqwref (Jun 29, 2013)

The cyoubx topic says that they have a copyright on the 2x2x2 through 4x4x4 as well as any 2D depictions of them. Their website says they have a copyright on the Rubik's Cube (no mention of other sizes) "in any configuration, [sticker]ed or un[sticker]ed". Their design trademark specifically only covers a black assembled 3x3x3 fully stickered in the traditional color scheme. It's confusing. I would say that, if they wanted to, they could go after any 2x2x2 through 4x4x4 (or even 5x5x5, I suppose), assembled or no, and your only recourse would be going to court (which you do not want to do). Any cube larger than 5x5x5 is guaranteed to be safe, though.

As has been mentioned, it's still pretty up in the air how much of this would hold up in court. Their patent is expired, their trademark is quite specific, and their copyright makes little sense (how can you copyright a work of art you have not created?).


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 29, 2013)

qqwref said:


> The cyoubx topic says that they have a copyright on the 2x2x2 through 4x4x4 as well as any 2D depictions of them. Their website says they have a copyright on the Rubik's Cube (no mention of other sizes) "in any configuration, [sticker]ed or un[sticker]ed". Their design trademark specifically only covers a black assembled 3x3x3 fully stickered in the traditional color scheme. It's confusing. I would say that, if they wanted to, they could go after any 2x2x2 through 4x4x4 (or even 5x5x5, I suppose), assembled or no, and your only recourse would be going to court (which you do not want to do). Any cube larger than 5x5x5 is guaranteed to be safe, though.
> 
> As has been mentioned, it's still pretty up in the air how much of this would hold up in court. Their patent is expired, their trademark is quite specific, and their copyright makes little sense (how can you copyright a work of art you have not created?).



Link provided is interesting. I read/scanned a lot. So it appears that white cubes would be legal as would be stickerless cubes?


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## cannon4747 (Jun 29, 2013)

I say we just all quit trying to be lawyers and instead use our considerable influence of their sales to force Rubiks to back off. It's what we did with V-cube, so why not with Rubiks?

I also don't understand why they'd want to do this. It doesn't help them much, and it pretty much only pisses off their customers. And it's not like the chinese cube manufacturers give a darn what copyrights or patents they're violating to make their products. They're just gonna keep ignoring the original inventor and sell their KO's in america anyway. And Americans will happily buy them. If Rubiks really wanted us to buy from them more exclusively, they'd start making decent puzzles and stop fighting "dirty" as many of us see it.


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## qqwref (Jun 29, 2013)

cannon4747 said:


> I say we just all quit trying to be lawyers and instead use our considerable influence of their sales to force Rubiks to back off. It's what we did with V-cube, so why not with Rubiks?


lol

What are we gonna do, threaten to continue not buying their products?


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## PeelingStickers (Jun 29, 2013)

cannon4747 said:


> I say we just all quit trying to be lawyers and instead use our considerable influence of their sales to force Rubiks to back off. It's what we did with V-cube, so why not with Rubiks?
> 
> I also don't understand why they'd want to do this. It doesn't help them much, and it pretty much only pisses off their customers. And it's not like the chinese cube manufacturers give a darn what copyrights or patents they're violating to make their products. They're just gonna keep ignoring the original inventor and sell their KO's in america anyway. And Americans will happily buy them. If Rubiks really wanted us to buy from them more exclusively, they'd start making decent puzzles and stop fighting "dirty" as many of us see it.



Did you go to competition with a rubik's brand?


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## Qthulu (Jun 29, 2013)

qqwref said:


> As has been mentioned, it's still pretty up in the air how much of this would hold up in court. Their patent is expired, their trademark is quite specific, and their copyright makes little sense (how can you copyright a work of art you have not created?).


What if they're going to renew it? 
You summarized it pretty well and I think, this whole thing will be over soon because of its senselessness.


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## Stefan (Jun 29, 2013)

Qthulu said:


> What if they're going to renew it?



As if that's possible...


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## Michael Womack (Jun 29, 2013)

sneaklyfox said:


> Link provided is interesting. I read/scanned a lot. So it appears that white cubes would be legal as would be stickerless cubes?



That about tiles cubes like the Tiled mefferts 4x4?


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## Chree (Jun 29, 2013)

qqwref said:


> lol
> 
> What are we gonna do, threaten to continue not buying their products?



Hah... touché sir.

But in all seriousness, is there really anything we can do? I see a lot of anger and not much in the way of calls to action.

What really gets me is, yeah, I totally understand the desire to stomp on the innumerable little guys that put out cheap knockoffs and sell them on amazon and grocery stores... but the fact that they used Dayan as a target and caught the entire speedcubing community in the blast radius is inexcusable. 

Welp... they're gonna be at world's. You can all let 'em know how you feel in person, if you want.


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## ZigzagCuber (Jun 30, 2013)

same im thinking of getting a higher layer cube but am afraid of customs destroying it


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## Michael Womack (Jun 30, 2013)

I just got my 6 3x3 cubes that I ordered from DX.com came from china all 6 of them survived. I ordered them about 3 weeks ago.


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## MaikeruKonare (Jun 30, 2013)

SEVEN TOWNS IS STUPID. By getting DaYan to add purple, they are changing nothing. As soon as any purple-instead-of-orange DaYan I order comes in the mail I AM GOING TO SLAP RUBIK COLOUR STICKERS ON IT. Seven Towns is just a baby who doesn't want anyone to take their raddle away.



ZigzagCuber said:


> same im thinking of getting a higher layer cube but am afraid of customs destroying it



I'm afraid to buy any cubes): I don't want them to get hurt because I bought them): Rubik is destroying the cubing industry and it upsets me): LETS REVOLT! DOWN WITH RUBIK! DOWN WITH SEVEN TOWNS!


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## cannon4747 (Jun 30, 2013)

qqwref said:


> lol
> 
> What are we gonna do, threaten to continue not buying their products?



haha I get your point, but when people ask us about cubes or anything we could easily tell them to stay away from Rubiks. I know I will.



PeelingStickers said:


> Did you go to competition with a rubik's brand?



I brought one with me one time, but I didn't use it.


It seems like dayan solved this problem (and the stickerless cube issue with the WCA) by coming out with purple plastic cubes. Same colored plastic that lots of ppl love, no copyright infringement, same color scheme, and competition legal. But it seriously does bother me that the big cube companies like to attempt to destroy the cubing industry simply because they want the dollar thats not coming to them either way. They're spiting us like the little girls they are.


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## sneaklyfox (Jun 30, 2013)

Just imagine if Rubik's brands were the only cubes there were to buy. What would speedcubing look like? Besides the not as good times, it wouldn't be even near as enjoyable a hobby imo. It would definitely not be as cool. Actually, it probably wouldn't be my hobby. It would just be what it was before I discovered the world of speedcubing. I knew how to solve it and that was about it.


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## CarlBrannen (Jun 30, 2013)

I really don't think I could twist a Rubik's cube at my age, not for 300 solves a day.

Here's three bad suggestions:

(1) Make up a list of better cubes, say all the cubes that have set world records for 3x3 in the last 8 years.

These will be printed on business card size card stock by the companies that export "knock-offs" to the United States. They will also include their own internet address on the cards.

Instead of including one such business card in a shipment, they'll include a dozen or two. Cubers carry around the cards and when someone asks about the cube, they hand out the card.

The result is more business for world class cube companies, more people speed cubing, but I wouldn't bet that this would decrease the number of Rubik's cubes sold.

(2) Make it illegal to use a cube with Rubiks colors at a WCA competition unless it is a Rubiks cube. This is what Seven Towns is literally asking for. The result will be that the speed cube makers will be forced to ship cubes that do not infringe. Eventually Walmart will sell speed cubes. This may seem unpleasant but it could be forced on the WCA by a letter that could be written at any time. And if such a letter arrived, it wouldn't be as convenient, if the WCA plans it, they can make the change to the new rules happen 12 months in the future instead of "henceforth and immediately".

(3) Have the WCA define a color scheme that definitely does not infringe and copyright it into the public domain. Then require that all cubes at WCA meets use this color scheme. (People will still be able to use half brights or flourescent etc.) The result will be that the speed cube makers will be forced into selling cubes that do not infringe Seven Towns. Eventually toy sellers in the US will start selling them. Again, this eliminates the sword that is hanging over the WCA.

So Seven Towns hasn't sent that letter to WCA yet. Maybe that's due to the fact that there are no Seven Towns cubes suitable for speed cubing. There's been rumors that Seven Towns is working on a speed cube. If those rumors are true, the logical thing for Seven Towns to do would be to ban infringing speed cubes by writing that letter to the WCA. As someone said here, what would speed cubers do, quit buying Rubik's brand? I don't think that's a real threat. From the situation they're in now, it's not possible for Seven Towns to do anything that would reduce the number of cubes they sell to speed cubers.


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## AvGalen (Jun 30, 2013)

CarlBrannen said:


> (2) Make it illegal to use a cube with Rubiks colors at a WCA competition unless it is a Rubiks cube. This is what Seven Towns is literally asking for.


No, Seven Towns is not interested in what we do at competitions. They are interested in what is sold. How you hack/mod/resticker after buying is your right


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## CarlBrannen (Jun 30, 2013)

I'd love to read the legal document where Seven Towns permanently released their copyright to be free for individuals to use, LOL.

From what I've read, there have been seizures of DIY kits. This suggests that there is no such agreement. Buy you can read what Seven Towns says about their copyright on their website. I didn't see any limitations:

_Seven Towns Ltd will prosecute unauthorized reproductions of the Rubik's Cube Puzzle, the Rubik's brand or any other intellectual property rights identified above. Such reproductions may also be seized and destroyed by customs authorities throughout the world._
http://www.rubiks.com/company/legal.php

What's more, Seven Towns is legally obligated to protect its copyright by agreements they've made with their licensees:

_Seven Towns Ltd has successfully prosecuted unauthorized reproductions of the Rubik's Cube Puzzle, the Rubik's brand and associated products and other work based on the intellectual property rights identified above. In addition, customs authorities are on alert and copies and counterfeit reproductions have also been seized and destroyed on arrival into European Union, US and other territories.

Seven Towns Ltd has* undertakings through agreements with its numerous existing licensees to continue to vigorously defend these rights*_.
http://www.seventowns.com/Rubiks_Legal_Notice.html

The real problem is that, as you wrote, "[t]hey are interested in what is sold." If they start selling speedcubes, their actions will be the same as any other company. If they can sell more cubes by enforcing their copyright it's in their best interests to do so. That is, they will protect value for their shareholders. The desires and feelings of speed cubers don't enter into the equation.


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## qqwref (Jun 30, 2013)

CarlBrannen said:


> Buy you can read what Seven Towns says about their copyright on their website. I didn't see any limitations:


They certainly do act like their copyright is extremely expansive (although what they say they have rights to keeps changing...). I would like to see the actual, official wording of the copyright they have. I think it's quite possible that they are overstating their rights (to intimidate competitors) or claiming rights that would be immediately overturned by a judge. As I said you can't create a dictionary attached to a pair of scissors and then claim copyright over any combination of the included words.

Remember when Dayan changed their stickers from orange to purple? According to what Seven Towns says, the cube would still be an obvious violation of their copyright, and unsellable - and yet in that case they seemed to be fine as long as the cube didn't violate Seven Towns's trademark (which is for a black 3x3x3 with a specific color scheme). So there's definitely something weird going on here.


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## mark49152 (Jun 30, 2013)

It's not in Seven Towns' interest to make clear statements about what they would or wouldn't litigate over. Fear, uncertainty and doubt helps them and is probably a deliberate objective for them.


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## makssl6911 (Jul 1, 2013)

Hm, so the patent aplies to a standard color scheme-black 3x3 cube. Can't you just do an R2? Isnt it then tecnhically stickered with an R2, therefore being legal?


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## Stefan (Jul 1, 2013)

makssl6911 said:


> Hm, so the patent



No.


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## BaMiao (Jul 1, 2013)

We all really need to stop playing intellectual property lawyer here and accept the fact that we don't know anything about any of this (unless you are, in fact, an intellectual property lawyer- in which case, speak up!). There's a reason that patent/copyright lawyers make the big bucks, and it's not because they can tell the difference between orange and purple.


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## cannon4747 (Jul 1, 2013)

CarlBrannen said:


> (3) Have the WCA define a color scheme that definitely does not infringe and copyright it into the public domain. Then require that all cubes at WCA meets use this color scheme. (People will still be able to use half brights or flourescent etc.) The result will be that the speed cube makers will be forced into selling cubes that do not infringe Seven Towns. Eventually toy sellers in the US will start selling them. Again, this eliminates the sword that is hanging over the WCA.




actually, this could work out for the speedcubing community. The cube manufacturers could avoid the copyright infringement by simply putting on flourescent or half brights on all their cubes default, like most cubers seem to want.

And I thought that copyrights were primarily for printed or written things such as the rubiks logo (or okay I guess maybe the color scheme). Patents are what could actually limit rubik cube production, but their patent ran out. If you think about it for half a second, copyright should only protect copies. A dayan cube and a rubiks cube are not copies of one another, not by a long shot. So therefore I think the actual puzzles should be safe. Their patent is long gone. The copyright should hold no power in this area. Or I might just be playing lawyer when I actually know nothing lol.

What I think we'd all like to see is the actual copyright and not what "they say" about their copyright. They could say anything they want if they don't ever hand over any information. And shouldn't this be public record?

okay, I'm done with my rant on this subject for tonight lol


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## qqwref (Jul 1, 2013)

The whole color scheme thing refers to their trademark. Changing the color scheme does indeed avoid trademark infringement. Nothing is very clear about the copyright (including its validity).


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## YddEd (Jul 1, 2013)

cannon4747 said:


> actually, this could work out for the speedcubing community. The cube manufacturers could avoid the copyright infringement by simply putting on flourescent or half brights on all their cubes default, like most cubers seem to want.


I think he meant like purple instead of orange, not different shades.


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## cannon4747 (Jul 1, 2013)

YddEd said:


> I think he meant like purple instead of orange, not different shades.



but wouldn't different shades work too? I think it should be something to try out, partly because I wanna see if it works, mostly because I don't wanna buy half brights anymore lol.


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## YddEd (Jul 1, 2013)

cannon4747 said:


> but wouldn't different shades work too? I think it should be something to try out, partly because I wanna see if it works, mostly because I don't wanna buy half brights anymore lol.


Well, people would still know that a florescent yellow is still a yellow, right? So I don't really know if that would make much of a difference.


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## makssl6911 (Jul 1, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Well, people would still know that a florescent yellow is still a yellow, right? So I don't really know if that would make much of a difference.



But dayan got away with making their orange another shade, didn't they?


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## YddEd (Jul 1, 2013)

makssl6911 said:


> But dayan got away with making their orange another shade, didn't they?


Did they?


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## CuberCritic (Jul 1, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Well, people would still know that a florescent yellow is still a yellow, right? So I don't really know if that would make much of a difference.



I actually thought about that too... It doesn't seem like they'll be doing that though.... DIY people won't be affected though. I hope they at least give the option of both purple and orange.


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## Michael Womack (Jul 2, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Did they?



I did notice a different shade of colors on my Panshi then what I got on my earlier Dayan cube.


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## cannon4747 (Jul 2, 2013)

Well it seems that dayan never actually changed anything after the allegations brought up over a year ago... seven towns just started illegally confiscating packages and throwing away "illicit" puzzles.


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## Clarkeeyyy (Jul 2, 2013)

Are knock-off DIY kits "illegal"?

Also are you sure different colour schemes would avoid this issue? SevenTowns states that it doesn't matter whether it is "in any configuration, coloured or uncoloured".


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## cannon4747 (Jul 2, 2013)

Clarkeeyyy said:


> Are knock-off DIY kits "illegal"?



Not technically since the rubik's patent ran out, but now they're trying to say that their copyright makes them illegal. Nobody will ever know until a judge decides.


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## DaveyCow (Jul 2, 2013)

So do you think this will cause an issue in airport security for everyone on their way to Worlds?


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## AvGalen (Jul 2, 2013)

cannon4747 said:


> Not technically since the rubik's patent ran out, but now they're trying to say that their copyright makes them illegal. Nobody will ever know until a judge decides.


not now, they have been saying that for years. They knew the patent would run out, were looking for a way to continue their business and found it in the "protected work of art" copyright.

Of course they will continue to enforce the Trademark as well, but I don't think anyone here feels bad for companies that are trying to sell a product that is trying to pass as a Rubik's brand including fake logo and/or packaging



DaveyCow said:


> So do you think this will cause an issue in airport security for everyone on their way to Worlds?


No, airport security cares about security.
Customs cares about illegal products but only for sales.
(of course they also care about copied dvd's, coral, medicines and many other things but that is off topic)


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## rj (Jul 2, 2013)

CarlBrannen said:


> I really don't think I could twist a Rubik's cube at my age, not for 300 solves a day.
> 
> Here's three bad suggestions:
> 
> ...



um, yu nakkajimma only uses rubik's DIY


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## cannon4747 (Jul 2, 2013)

rj said:


> um, yu nakkajimma only uses rubik's DIY



Idk about that... I think he just uses the rubiks stickers. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

And even if he does, I'm sure he mods the crap out of them so they're no longer recognizable as a Rubiks brand mech lol.


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## rj (Jul 2, 2013)

cannon4747 said:


> Idk about that... I think he just uses the rubiks stickers. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.
> 
> And even if he does, I'm sure he mods the crap out of them so they're no longer recognizable as a Rubiks brand mech lol.


agreed.


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## BrainOfSweden (Jul 3, 2013)

AvGalen said:


> No, airport security cares about security.


It'll likely not stop anyone because of this, but airport security did actually stop me because I had a V-Cube 7 in my bag, and they had no idea what it was when they saw it on the monitor


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## Michael Womack (Jul 3, 2013)

BrainOfSweden said:


> It'll likely not stop anyone because of this, but airport security did actually stop me because I had a V-Cube 7 in my bag, and they had no idea what it was when they saw it on the monitor



Same with me but I didn't have a 7x7 at the time they had to search my bag.


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## Username (Jul 3, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> Same with me but I didn't have a 7x7 at the time they had to search my bag.



Did you have any kind of cube? Otherwise this is really off-topic


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## Michael Womack (Jul 3, 2013)

Username said:


> Did you have any kind of cube? Otherwise this is really off-topic



3x3's, 4x4, 5x5, 2x2 and some others.


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## 1LastSolve (Jul 3, 2013)

I think it would be a good idea to replace White with Black, it's commonly used and I don't think it'll affect our times that much. But keep up the good work on dis thread


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## MaeLSTRoM (Jul 3, 2013)

1LastSolve said:


> I think it would be a good idea to replace White with Black, it's commonly used and I don't think it'll affect our times that much. But keep up the good work on dis thread



What good work?

This thread was started January 2012. The discussion then died down because nothing happened.
Now, ~16 months later there is 1 report of someone having cubes stopped at customs, and the discussion comes back with people claiming that we should destroy 7towns and all sorts of things.

It doesn't affect us as much as people would lead you to believe on this thread.


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## Qthulu (Jul 3, 2013)

1LastSolve said:


> I think it would be a good idea to replace White with Black, it's commonly used and I don't think it'll affect our times that much. But keep up the good work on dis thread


Black on black? I don't think this would be a good solution. If white should be replaced with black, white cubes will become necessary. Also, wouldn't V cube blame the cube manufacturers? (Is their color scheme copyrighted, too?)


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## 1LastSolve (Jul 3, 2013)

1 Report? I have 2 Friends who never received their package.


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## MaeLSTRoM (Jul 3, 2013)

1LastSolve said:


> 1 Report? I have 2 Friends who never received their package.



Is that actually because of the package being destroyed by customs, which they notify you for, or just a case of stuff being lost in the post which actually happens quite a lot.


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## 1LastSolve (Jul 3, 2013)

Good point. I'll just admit that its over.


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## XTowncuber (Jul 3, 2013)

rj said:


> um, yu nakkajimma only uses rubik's DIY



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk8CmaYxEvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwxYdp2XTFk
He used Rubik's DIY for a long time, but he has used modern cubes for a while now.


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## Michael Womack (Jul 3, 2013)

XTowncuber said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk8CmaYxEvw
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwxYdp2XTFk
> He used Rubik's DIY for a long time, but he has used modern cubes for a while now.



Actually this video shows him using it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI_zjWssn2g&feature=c4-overview&&list=TLpnoJKg6SsmQ


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## qqwref (Jul 3, 2013)

Michael Womack said:


> Actually this video shows him using it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI_zjWssn2g&feature=c4-overview&&list=TLpnoJKg6SsmQ



Uploaded on May 23, 2008


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## jayefbe (Jul 3, 2013)

1LastSolve said:


> 1 Report? I have 2 Friends who never received their package.



And where were these packages ordered from? What shipping method? When were they ordered? 

It's not uncommon for China post packages to take ~6 weeks or more.


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## Qthulu (Jul 3, 2013)

jayefbe said:


> And where were these packages ordered from? What shipping method? When were they ordered?
> 
> It's not uncommon for China post packages to take ~6 weeks or more.


And stores like zcube use very rough packages, it's a bit hard to tear it up by hand. They also stuff it real good, so the chance that the content gets harmed is minimized. My package was a bit bruised, but still fully intact. 

@1LastSolve: It takes usually 3-4 weeks (sometimes 5) for a package from China to arrive me (I live in Germany).


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## noob (Jul 4, 2013)

I just spend like 100 bucks on dayan cubes and now I'm scared...like this is the most weirdest copyright, I'll just resticker my dayans if they changed the color scheme...Ha foolproof plan!

I believe that dayan agreed to change the color scheme of it, but to what certain colors, I'm not so sure. Except I don't know what's next .-.


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## jayefbe (Jul 4, 2013)

noob said:


> I believe that dayan agreed to change the color scheme of it, but to what certain colors, I'm not so sure. Except I don't know what's next .-.



source? 

Also, you can edit your posts instead of having multiple posts in a row in a single thread.


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## rj (Jul 4, 2013)

XTowncuber said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk8CmaYxEvw
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwxYdp2XTFk
> He used Rubik's DIY for a long time, but he has used modern cubes for a while now.



I was reading an old article, sorry.


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## CatchO (Jul 4, 2013)

Why don't they just use Japanese colour scheme, and since they are Dayan cubes and you can disassemble edges into 2 pieces and corners into 3 pieces, you could just reassemble them the correct way?


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## jayefbe (Jul 4, 2013)

CatchO said:


> Why don't they just use Japanese colour scheme, and since they are Dayan cubes and you can disassemble edges into 2 pieces and corners into 3 pieces, you could just reassemble them the correct way?



I doubt customs officers with no familiarity with cubing will notice that two colors are swapped compared to the "standard" color scheme, and will let the cube go on its way.


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## YddEd (Jul 5, 2013)

noob said:


> I just spend like 100 bucks on dayan cubes and now I'm scared...like this is the most weirdest copyright, I'll just resticker my dayans if they changed the color scheme...*Ha foolproof plan*!
> 
> I believe that dayan agreed to change the color scheme of it, but to what certain colors, I'm not so sure. Except I don't know what's next .-.


Foolproof? You mean you're going to bust into customs to resticker it just so it doesn't get destroyed?


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## bundat (Jul 6, 2013)

I just read about this, and I'd like to ask, does this mean all new stickerless Dayan's now have a purple colored side?


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## MaeLSTRoM (Jul 6, 2013)

bundat said:


> I just read about this, and I'd like to ask, does this mean all new stickerless Dayan's now have a purple colored side?



No. If you look at the dates, this was first brought up over a year ago and still nothing has changed, and I doubt anything will.


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## cubesonfire (Jul 9, 2013)

I want to order some dayans now, you got some news about the colour scheme or package destroyin?


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## yockee (Jul 9, 2013)

rj said:


> um, yu nakkajimma only uses rubik's DIY



Uh... no. He used to only use Rubik's DIY's, but that was like 2008. Now, he uses Dayans and other up to date, better cubes.


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## CarlBrannen (Jul 9, 2013)

Was the "Japanese color scheme" developed as a way of avoiding the trademark?


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## cubernya (Jul 9, 2013)

CarlBrannen said:


> Was the "Japanese color scheme" developed as a way of avoiding the trademark?



IIRC, the Japanese color scheme was actually the original color scheme. It was later changed by people in the Americas, but I don't remember all the details


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 10, 2013)

theZcuber said:


> IIRC, the Japanese color scheme was actually the original color scheme. It was later changed by people in the Americas, but I don't remember all the details



Actually, as I understand it, Japan and the USA were the two locations which had this color scheme (on official Rubik's cubes) in the early 1980s. I have heard people say that some of the early cubes in the USA were of the more common European color scheme, but I have never seen an early USA cube with that color scheme. I have two Rubik's cubes from 1981 with the original stickers on them (never peeled! ) and they both have the "Japanese" color scheme.

I'll probably bring one of those cubes to WC this year, if anyone would like to see. They're in amazingly bad shape - the pieces rattle when you shake them.


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## Johnny (Jul 20, 2013)

*Why hasn't Dayan started shipping cubes with its new color scheme?*

Don't they not have the right to use orange anymore?


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## MaeLSTRoM (Jul 20, 2013)

They have every right to still use orange, what you read in the copyright infringement thread is so far unacted on, and a lot of it is speculation.

/thread


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## Johnny (Jul 20, 2013)

How do they have every right? Didn't they say they'd change it?


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## antoineccantin (Jul 20, 2013)

At some point last year they had purple stickers instead of orange. However, the newer ones have orange.


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## Deleted member 19792 (Jul 21, 2013)

If it is X opposite X, cant it be changed to X opposite Florescent X?

The CS on storebought cubes actually have brighter colours.


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## Michael Womack (Jul 21, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> At some point last year they had purple stickers instead of orange. However, the newer ones have orange.



This is true my Panshi that I got at the beginning of March came with orange and not purple.


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## Stefan (Aug 14, 2013)

Just a theory I just came up with: Designers create pictures of invalid cubes (e.g. five yellow corner stickers) not because they're clueless, but because they want to avoid copyright violations.


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## Alexisa (Aug 31, 2013)

Will this count to all brands and not only dayan.
Also is it true that customs can destroy the cube if it isn't rubiks and has the rubiks colour scheme.
And I think the best thing to do is to send an orange sticker side to please your customers

Messing around with colour recognition is not good in my opinion


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## rj (Aug 31, 2013)

Alexisa said:


> Will this count to all brands and not only dayan.
> Also is it true that customs can destroy the cube if it isn't rubiks and has the rubiks colour scheme.
> And I think the best thing to do is to send an orange sticker side to please your customers
> 
> Messing around with colour recognition is not good in my opinion



Dayan is the main target, but other companies are affected too. Dayan has purple instead of orange, but send extra orange.


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## JHB (Oct 9, 2013)

Hey funny thing just happened- Seven Towns just made me remove 3 of my ebay lots because I was trying to sell some *second hand* cubes and Magics! I have violated their copyright because I used "Rubik's" when selling some cubes. I know they're correct because they're mostly ShengShou and DaYan brand, but c'mon :fp
Anyway, I'm about to relist some ShengShou, DaYan cubes, Ghosthand and other quality *definitely not Rubik's* items.


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## rj (Oct 11, 2013)

JHB said:


> Hey funny thing just happened- Seven Towns just made me remove 3 of my ebay lots because I was trying to sell some *second hand* cubes and Magics! I have violated their copyright because I used "Rubik's" when selling some cubes. I know they're correct because they're mostly ShengShou and DaYan brand, but c'mon :fp
> Anyway, I'm about to relist some ShengShou, DaYan cubes, Ghosthand and other quality *definitely not Rubik's* items.



Good luck at not getting your shop shut down.


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