# Happy New Year! Also, ZBLL Algorithms



## eastamazonantidote (Dec 31, 2009)

Update 9/3/2012: Please refer to this thread from now on: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?33745-Updated-ZBLL-Algorithms

Hi guys! Simon Swanson here, bringing you the fruits of my work on the Zborowski-Bruchem Last Layer, or ZBLL!

The current version is 2.57 (if anyone wants an old version I've saved the PDFs). This _should_ be an error-free document, though some things may have slipped by. I've added many things since the first version and I highly recommend you download again. As I progress into learning ZBLL myself, the changes will come as I dismiss algs as being terrible.

ZBLL Algorithms.odt

ZBLL Algorithms.doc

ZBLL Algorithms.pdf

For those of you learning phasing, I've extracted those cases into a ZZLL Algorithms document. This document is just algorithms taking out of the ZBLL document. Current version 1.05.

ZZLL Algorithms.odt

ZZLL Algorithms.doc

ZZLL Algorithms.pdf

The .ODT and .DOC are if you want the chance to edit anything (highly encouraged). The .PDF is if you want to blindly follow what I say (also good). The .PDF is probably easier to read, but I really recommend the ability to edit the sheets.

This was a huge amount a work. But I will not lie: I took tons of shortcuts. However, I did make every single algorithm myself (though a few happen to be the same as Jason Baum's). I won't write much here becuase I ramble on in the sheets. I made every image myself (493 items) and every alg (480 items). I estimate 80 hours of rather inefficient work was put into these documents.

I would like to thank Cride5 in particular for spending large amounts of time helping correct any mistakes I had. And as a bonus, he so graciously put them all online. Thanks Cride5!
http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Special:AlgDB?mode=view&view=default&puzzle=3&group=ZBLL-T

A few things to note:
1. False algorithms should have been fixed but I bet some have been missed. Keep an open mind when an alg just doesn't work.
2. Help with some of the algs would be greatly appreciated. Some of the ones I listed suck walnuts.
3. I like M slices. L' R becomes M x and R' L becomes M' x'. Fix it in your sheet or deal with it.

For those of you just starting the ZBLL path, here is a sheet for my COLL algorithms.

COLL Algorithms.pdf

COLL Algorithms in document form

Enjoy, you guys!

EDITS:
January 5th: got up version 1.01. Had a redundant algorithm in one of the H sets (thanks masterofthebass). Also put the PDF on Google for easier access (thanks PHPJaguar).

January 17th: trying to get everything onto Google. Download the document, remove the .pdf extension, and open as a .doc. If this works, I'll get everything off the annoying site and onto Google.

January 18th: Thanks to Cride5, every alg is now on the wiki. Great job! Link: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Special:AlgDB?mode=view&view=default&puzzle=3&group=ZBLL-T

January 18th: Also thanks to Cride5, huge update. Had several algs wrong and one whole page messed up. New version is 1.18, I believe.

February 2nd: Large Bump. After some updates on the wiki, I decided to update the documents again. A few minor errors were fixed and some different algorithms added to give some variety. I set the H1 COLL set to show the symmetry happening on many of the cases, but I decided to keep all 12 cases (8 are possible with some U2-ing). If you haven't downloaded any of the updated versions, you should do so now. I lost track of the changes and just decided to call this version 2.00, where there should be no mistakes. Also updated this post.

February 3rd: On request, put up a rather junky COLL sheet. I'll get working on that one soon...Also, would people enjoy VHF2L or ZBF2L? I don't wanna go full ZBF2L, but if enough people request it I could get it done in a month or so (I've got a lot of work right now).

May 18th: Finally got around to fixing some more minor mistakes and preferences. As I work through the algs I decided whether or not I like them. I don't think an optimal page will come out for a while, but I'll be steadily editing the speed-oriented version as I progress further into my quest for ZBLL.

August 28th: Decided to put up the ZZLL docs as well. Finally finished the H sets, both in learning and getting better algs. Shaped up the intro a tad, but otherwise not much is different. I'm at version 2.57 and I barely finished the smallest set. Wow.


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## 4Chan (Dec 31, 2009)

YUSSSSSSSS

I think I'll learn some after I learn more of ZBF2L.
I'm still using mirrors for anti-sune. T_T


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## lilkdub503 (Dec 31, 2009)

I think I'll tackle this immediately after COLL (and learn some easy cases).


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## 4Chan (Dec 31, 2009)

YOUR FORMATTING IS GORGEOUS.

However... it seems that we recognize Pi, sune, and anti-sune subsets differently. :d
But your way of recognizing Sune/Anti-sune is much better! 0:

And hahaha, I see what you mean about M slices, I too have a few M slice algs. (x


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## Ranzha (Dec 31, 2009)

4Chan said:


> YOUR FORMATTING IS GORGEOUS.
> 
> However... it seems that we recognize Pi subset differently. :d



Yeah, when I learned the Pi case in COLL, it was WAY different....
But heh, you can edit however you want!


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## eastamazonantidote (Dec 31, 2009)

lilkdub503 said:


> I think I'll tackle this immediately after COLL (and learn some easy cases).



I'll help you with that when I get back. Only 21 days away...



4Chan said:


> YUSSSSSSSS
> 
> I think I'll learn some after I learn more of ZBF2L.
> I'm still using mirrors for anti-sune. T_T



I used mirrors for Anti-Sune as well. Like I noted, tons of shortcuts.



4Chan said:


> YOUR FORMATTING IS GORGEOUS.
> 
> However... it seems that we recognize Pi, sune, and anti-sune subsets differently. :d
> And hahaha, I see what you mean about M slices, I too have a few M slice algs. (x



I couldn't deal with the weird recognition for Sune and Anti-Sune 3 months ago when I finished COLL, so I just made my own recognition system. I recommend the .odt file for you so you can edit whatever you want.

As for the formatting, I take pride in it. Seriously, though, I worked forever to get my PLL page looking good, then I had to do the same with my OLLs. But the COLL page was what really got me going. Thank you so much for the compliment. I really glad someone noticed.



Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> Yeah, when I learned the Pi case in COLL, it was WAY different....
> But heh, you can edit however you want!



That's the point! Wow, you guys are smart. Sorry about the lack of a .doc file, though...I just really don't wanna have to redo the pictures.


4 replies in 13 minutes. Not bad.


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## Ranzha (Dec 31, 2009)

eastamazonantidote said:


> 4 replies in 13 minutes. Not bad.



Remember, we're a forum.
I need to learn Some ZBF2L WAAAAY before I tackle this heap of algs.

EDIT:
"Congratulations! You just finished ZBLL possibly! More than likely however, you just
scanned through the pages and ended up here. Well, this is the end. Hope you enjoyed the
algorithms!"


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## frogmanson (Jan 3, 2010)

why can't you recognize anti-sune via the block? how is it different, i don't understand D;


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## eastamazonantidote (Jan 3, 2010)

frogmanson said:


> why can't you recognize anti-sune via the block? how is it different, i don't understand D;



By block, I'll assume you mean the oriented corner.

You can use this system if you want, but that would require looking left instead of right like normally, so you would slow down on any Anti-Sune case. If you want to look left, be my guest. This short paragraph sums up what I've written below.

Harris/Baum recognition makes you look at the FU and RU stickers and compare them to the FUR and RUF stickers, respectively (except in x cases). However, you must also recognize the COLL case. I personally recognize my Anti-Sune orientation with the oriented corner to UFL. This actually gives me 5 stickers to compare for my COLL recognition, but only 4 (actually 3, but why not use everything given to you?) are really needed. I actually tried to make the oriented case in UFR back in...September? but it just doesn't work. Several different COLL cases looked the same with that recognition, so I just went with the mirror of my Sune recognition.

Now, for the actual ZBLL recognition, you want to identify the edge cases without changing the position of your cube (from your COLL case). So I just made my own solution. You COULD look at LU and FU and compare them to FUL and LUF, respectively, but that would mean Anti-Sune would require extra thought mid-solve. So I decided that just using the same recognition as H would be just fine.


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## Weston (Jan 3, 2010)

Heh i might *slowly* start learning ZBLL. Just to see what it can do.


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## Musturd (Jan 3, 2010)

lilkdub503 said:


> I think I'll tackle this immediately after COLL (and learn some easy cases).



Agreed.

EDIT: The pop-up that pops up when you click the download link gets straight reds from WOT. Just a warning.


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## 4Chan (Jan 3, 2010)

Good luck learning ZBLL guys! ;D
It's a really tough mental struggle. :d


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## Weston (Jan 3, 2010)

4Chan said:


> Good luck learning ZBLL guys! ;D
> It's a really tough mental struggle. :d



I can guess that. lol
Im interested in Lars Petrus's one look-2 alg LL system though.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 5, 2010)

not meaning to bump this, but you have an error on page 26  Your 3rd to last and 2nd to last cases are the same.

I replaced 
U R U2 M' x' D' L2 U' L2 u L2 B'
with 
U R2 U R2 y' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R U' R y R2 U' R2


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## PHPJaguar (Jan 5, 2010)

I've uploaded the PDF to a server that won't blast ads in my face, bug me about their overpriced "subscription", make me wait an additional 20 seconds once I've refreshed the page enough times to get an empty slot, and then, to top it all off, give me the file at the slowest download speed possible, just me make me think about how much I want to upgrade.
[/rant]

http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...2ItZjA5NS00MmQ1LWJlZTMtMmE4MGRiYTExOTI4&hl=en


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## eastamazonantidote (Jan 5, 2010)

masterofthebass said:


> not meaning to bump this, but you have an error on page 26  Your 3rd to last and 2nd to last cases are the same.
> 
> I replaced
> U R U2 M' x' D' L2 U' L2 u L2 B'
> ...



Will look into it. Thanks for letting me know. For future reference, please state the edge permutation code. That makes it much easier to identify the case issues.



PHPJaguar said:


> I've uploaded the PDF to a server that won't blast ads in my face, bug me about their overpriced "subscription", make me wait an additional 20 seconds once I've refreshed the page enough times to get an empty slot, and then, to top it all off, give me the file at the slowest download speed possible, just me make me think about how much I want to upgrade.
> [/rant]
> 
> http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...2ItZjA5NS00MmQ1LWJlZTMtMmE4MGRiYTExOTI4&hl=en



Wow that's great! I never could figure out how to use Google docs correctly or something because it never let me share anything. I'll get working and update the links soon.

EDIT: Wow. How the hell did you do that? I found the PDF in MY google docs page (shared, but on MY page). I can't even upload the files to Google. It loads all the way then displays: Unable to read file. I have always had to convert to .doc but then I have to reenter the pictures which is a pain.


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## masterofthebass (Jan 5, 2010)

eastamazonantidote said:


> masterofthebass said:
> 
> 
> > not meaning to bump this, but you have an error on page 26  Your 3rd to last and 2nd to last cases are the same.
> ...



My problem is that I changed all the codes before I tested the alg, so I don't now what your code was.


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## eastamazonantidote (Jan 5, 2010)

masterofthebass said:


> eastamazonantidote said:
> 
> 
> > masterofthebass said:
> ...



No problem. It's fixed now. I replaced the other alg and used a different fix but it's all fine. New version will be up in a minute or so (1.01).


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## irontwig (Jan 6, 2010)

I made a list Lars Petrus' core LL algorithms if anyone wants it.


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## xXzaKerXx (Jan 8, 2010)

thanks for the hard work you did for all this algs. i was searching high and low all over the internet for ZBLLs but none were even complete, so just wanna say THANK YOU!!


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## Kian (Jan 8, 2010)

Good luck, all! This is a sort of insanity I will leave to others...


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## eastamazonantidote (Jan 10, 2010)

xXzaKerXx said:


> thanks for the hard work you did for all this algs. i was searching high and low all over the internet for ZBLLs but none were even complete, so just wanna say THANK YOU!!



To be honest, that is the reason I made this sheet. At first I just wanted to learn ZB (almost exactly one year ago), but then I realized that there would be a huge algorithm barrier. Being around a minute back then, I slowly went through the Fridrich method, trying to get fast enough to make it worthwhile. I actually finished COLL before I finished OLL.

I have had absolutely no time the past week and probably won't have any real time the next 2 weeks, but I vowed that I would finish a complete ZBLL page before the end of 2009. With all the news of ZB in the forums back in November, I was really pressured into finishing this. So I did, even though I knew I wouldn't be able to use it myself for another month.

Just to let you guys know, comments like this make my day. Keep the feedback coming!


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## Robert-Y (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey can you tell me some particularly bad cases which you can't find a good algorithm for? I would like to try and find some nice algorithms since I'm bored right now


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## 4Chan (Jan 10, 2010)

Ooooh!

Really?!
I'll list some cases right now!
(I just woke up)

R B2 U' F' U D L U L' U' D' F B2 R' (I hate this case soo much.)
U R2 B2 R F2 r2 U' L' U r' U2 l' F2 R2

U R' F' R B' L' R' F R F' L F B

R D L U2 L D' R D r2 F2 U' R2

Ummm, this is an odd request, I have lots of crap algs because I was lazy, but can you find the alg for the mirror of this case?:
U2 R2 F' R2 U R2 D' Y' R' U' D R' U R2 B2


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## Robert-Y (Jan 10, 2010)

For: R B2 U' F' U D L U L' U' D' F B2 R'

I found: (R' U' D R' U2 R U2 D') (R2 U2 R' U' R2 U' R')

(Use your ring fingers to do the D moves of course...)


For: U R2 B2 R F2 r2 U' L' U r' U2 l' F2 R2

I found: (U' L U2 L' U') (R' U2 L U L') (R U) (R' U R)

(You could finish off by doing z' U L U' L U if you prefer)


For: U R' F' R B' L' R' F R F' L F B

I found: (U R U2' R' U' L U2 L' U') (x L2 U2 L' U2) x' (U' L')

(Don't ever move your left thumb until you get to the (U' L') part at the end )


For: R D L U2 L D' R D r2 F2 U' R2

I found erm...: L' (R perm) L

(Hehehe....)


And finally, for "the mirror of this case: U2 R2 F' R2 U R2 D' Y' R' U' D R' U R2 B2"

I found: (D R2' U' R2 U' R' U2 R U2') (R U D') (R U' R' U)

(Couldn't find much for this case :/...)


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## 4Chan (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice algorithms!


WHatttt!!!!
That case was that simple!!! o_o

Ughhh, :fp at myself, why didn't i realize that!!!


Thanks so much for the help!


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## eastamazonantidote (Jan 11, 2010)

Robert-Y said:


> Hey can you tell me some particularly bad cases which you can't find a good algorithm for? I would like to try and find some nice algorithms since I'm bored right now



Most of Pi is just inverted H algorithms. H algorithms are pretty poor. Actually, everything but T and U could probably use some cleaning up. But if you really want to start, I would like help with H. I mirrored as much as I could for that case and got some awkward algorithms. Since it is the shortest set I think it might be better if the algs were nicer.


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## xXzaKerXx (Jan 12, 2010)

eastamazonantidote said:


> xXzaKerXx said:
> 
> 
> > thanks for the hard work you did for all this algs. i was searching high and low all over the internet for ZBLLs but none were even complete, so just wanna say THANK YOU!!
> ...



it's the least i could do. btw, your formatting made ZBLL looked so much easier to learn because it's so organized.


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## Cride5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Good job eastamazonantidote, great contribution!

Just learned my first ZBLL alg: R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R ... I'll be looking forward to seeing it pop up in a solve (someday)


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## eastamazonantidote (Jan 14, 2010)

Cride5 said:


> Good job eastamazonantidote, great contribution!
> 
> Just learned my first ZBLL alg: R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R ... I'll be looking forward to seeing it pop up in a solve (someday)



That brings up a question that bugged me when I was trying to go to sleep last night. What are the probabilities of each case?

I'm assuming that each of the 12 edge permutations have an equal chance of coming up. Corner permutation I'm not so sure about, because I get the same cases over and over again while some rarely pop up. For the actual orientation chance, those are pretty well known. I may add probabilities to the optimal algs. That is, after I have optimal algs.


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## 4Chan (Jan 14, 2010)

Haha, I too wonder that question once.
I posted a thread about COLL probability so I could have a general idea, because i thought ZBLL probabilities was a bit much to ask for.


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## Cride5 (Jan 14, 2010)

eastamazonantidote said:


> Cride5 said:
> 
> 
> > Good job eastamazonantidote, great contribution!
> ...



The total number of ZBLL cases is:
3^3 * 4! * 4! / 2 = 7776

Allowing for AUF the number of cases is: 7776 / 4 = 1944

So the rarest cases will occur 1/1944 (~0.05%) of the time. This is the probability of the 'solved' case (ZBLL skip), or getting just the H-Perm (and an OCLL skip). I think these are the only two rarest cases but I may be wrong.

Most cases have symmetric equivalents, solvable with the same algorithm. These will have a higher probability, depending on how many symmetric equivalents they have. 

I guess the simplest way to figure out the probability of each case is to do it hierarchically, so first find the probability of the OCLL case in question, then find the probability of the PLL case underneath. If the PLL case is not symmetric, then you need to divide by 4 because you're looking at the probability of it occurring from one specific angle. This is because the the OCLL case on top means AUF'ing the PLL case is not possible. For example, my first ZBLL (R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R) is a Pi OCLL case, with a Ub-Perm PLL, so combined the probability is:

4/27 * 1/18 * 1/4 = 1/486
... dividing by 4 because U-Perm is not symmetric and Ub-Perm from each angle is a different case.

If however the case was a Pi OCLL case, with H-perm PLL underneath that, then the probability would be:
4/27 * 1/72 = 1/486
.. same probability, but different reasoning behind the calculation. H-perm-perm has 4-way symmetry, so there's only one way it can occur in relation to the Pi case.

A similar discussion on ZBLL probabilities is here.
Probabilities for OCLL cases are here
Probabilities for PLL cases are here

I hope that explanation made sense!


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## Crystl (Jan 16, 2010)

That's the best Algs collection I have ever seen. However, it's a lot and might need a lot of time to learn. I hope when I get through OLL, I will have some time for ZBLL


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## eastamazonantidote (Jan 17, 2010)

Crystl said:


> That's the best Algs collection I have ever seen. However, it's a lot and might need a lot of time to learn. I hope when I get through OLL, I will have some time for ZBLL



Thanks for the compliment. It is a lot of work, and you have to memorize the algs much differently than for smaller sets. I wish you luck.

Just wait till I get alternative and optimal algs up. And recognition for the edge perm system. THEN, and only then, will it be the best. This is kinda the beta version.

And Cride5, thanks for the data. I'll think about it, calculate the cases, and (hopefully) put it up with the optimals, when I get them done. Also, about your PM, knock yourself out.


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## eastamazonantidote (Feb 3, 2010)

Bump.

I fixed several issues and with the update to the online collection, I felt I should keep up. Current version now 2.00 (mostly because I lost track of the changes)

Cheers!


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## Daniel Que (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow, very nice work!


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## eastamazonantidote (Mar 15, 2010)

Daniel Que said:


> Wow, very nice work!



Thank you very much. The bump is great because I see people are still interested. I'll get going on some optimal algs eventually. Maybe by summer I'll have it done. I might to a ZBF2L doc as well. But that's for another time.

*I have a question for 4Chan here* (because he won't accept PMs): how much time did it take you to get an alg and the case to go together in your head (not quite instinctive like COLL but you know what I mean)? The first H COLL set (the Double Sune set) was pretty easy - only 4 algs to learn. The next set (F RUR'U'*3 F') was harder but I think I have it down pretty well. But after that my progress has gone downhill. With my schedule it gets harder and harder to find time to practice. All my cubing time is now dedicated to finding Jig-a-Loo or CRC and learning ZBLL algs. I know we use different recognition but I'm sure the issue is the same, as we have to recall the same amount of algs. In your early videos there was a huge pause time for recall. I'm getting frustrated because my COLL recognition is actually faster than my OLL recognition while my ZBLL recognition lags behind. I'm a perfectionist and really try to ingrain every single alg I know into my brain before moving on. While this works on smaller sets like OLL and PLL and COLL and even VHF2L, for ZBLL it just doesn't work. Hence the reason why it took me 1 month to finish 2 sets. Any advice? Were you this frustrated? How much time did you put in daily on learning algs?


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## Nestor (Apr 5, 2011)

As fun as learning 2.000 algs sounds, for someone that hasn't fully mastered techniques as partial edge control, x-cross, COLL and the like (and taking into account recognition time) is it really worth learning full ZBLL?

2-4k algorithms. Just wow.


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## Godmil (Apr 5, 2011)

UnAbusador said:


> is it really worth learning full ZBLL?


If you're wanting to be faster, then no. The thousands of hours it would need to be fast at ZBLL would be better spent practising another method.
If however you're really hardcore into FMC, then it may be useful to learn some HTM optimal sets.


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## eastamazonantidote (Apr 5, 2011)

UnAbusador said:


> As fun as learning 2.000 algs sounds, for someone that hasn't fully mastered techniques as partial edge control, x-cross, COLL and the like (and taking into account recognition time) is it really worth learning full ZBLL?
> 
> 2-4k algorithms. Just wow.



Well, not quite that many algorithms. 501 for ZBLL, and with VHF2L you can survive with 32, though 64 has been more valuable in my experience. At the point you're at, no, ZBLL is not worth it. It really is a sub-20 method. At that point you can decide what kind of effort you're willing to put into learning cases. And I would argue that COLL is a requirement before you start ZBLL, and VHF2L before ZBF2L. If you have problems learning that then you should hold off for a while. Get your times down, get your technique down, and then decide if ZB is right for you.

On a side note, your bump makes it so that I have to start working on algs again...Look for an update in about a month and a half.


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## Egide (Apr 6, 2011)

Hey eastamazonantidote if you still need any algs for the H set let me know coz l've finished putting together mine and l'd like to contribute; so give me a bad alg if you have any and l'll see if l use a better one.


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## nickvu2 (Apr 6, 2011)

Tissycuber said:


> Hey eastamazonantidote if you still need any algs for the H set let me know coz l've finished putting together mine and l'd like to contribute; so give me a bad alg if you have any and l'll see if l use a better one.



I'd like to make the same offer. I have found my favorite algs for T, U, H and L of the ZZLL cases. Or if you have other suggestions for contributing, please share those as well =)


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## eastamazonantidote (Apr 6, 2011)

It might work better if you guys just send me the algs over email or PM or something like that. I'll go over them all and make changes. The problem is I have many algs that I'm satisfied with, and only once you give me something better would I see it that it could have been improved. And I will note that my ZZLL algorithms are pretty horrible, which is why I've been working hard to learn cases (I only change cases as I learn them).


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## a small kitten (Apr 7, 2011)

Do good sets of ZZLL algs exist for OH yet?


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## EricReese (Apr 7, 2011)

a small kitten said:


> Do good sets of ZZLL algs exist for OH yet?


 
This


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## oll+phase+sync (Apr 7, 2011)

Boca groups algs by TH OH 

http://www.boca.bee.pl/cat.php?l=en&cat=oh&m=zz&ch=b&mode=print

I found some good TH algs there, but I'm not going to learn Full ZB or ZZ-b


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## a small kitten (Apr 7, 2011)

Yeah...it may not be their fault or anything, but most of the OH algs suck.


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## eastamazonantidote (Apr 8, 2011)

a small kitten said:


> Yeah...it may not be their fault or anything, but most of the OH algs suck.


 
I would agree. It's difficult with most cases to make it OH-compatible, but I'll do my best to find them from now on. Though again, it will be at least a month (when constitution team is over) before I can get in a serious update.


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## a small kitten (Apr 8, 2011)

thank you thank you.


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## EricReese (Apr 10, 2011)

Could you explain (in the zbll pdf) more about CC AA CO CA etc? You say this is a recognition system, and I tried reading it thoroughly twice over, but still am a little confused.


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## irontwig (Apr 10, 2011)

EricReese said:


> Could you explain (in the zbll pdf) more about CC AA CO CA etc? You say this is a recognition system, and I tried reading it thoroughly twice over, but still am a little confused.


 
Just scroll down and look at the diagrams instead.


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## EricReese (Apr 10, 2011)

I already have. I am still confused :/


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## nickvu2 (Apr 11, 2011)

It's recognition. There are 2 classes: YZ (sometimes written Y/Z) and YxZ; where Y and Z can be either C (correct), O (opposite) or A (adjacent) colors. In the first class (YZ), Y is the FU edge sticker and FUR corner sticker and Z is RU and RUF. So CO would mean the front 2 stickers are the same color (Ex: red, red) and the right stickers are opposite (ex: blue,green). In the second class (YxZ), Y is FU and RUF and Z is RU and FUR; think x means crossing the related stickers. Therefore, CxC would be the same as AA. Maybe they're not really 2 separate classes, just 2 different ways of writing the relationships between stickers. But depending on the case, it may be clearer or more specific to use one convention as opposed to the other.

Does that make sense?


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## EricReese (Apr 11, 2011)

Yes that clears that up  I should get used to it, now I can get started


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## PandaCuber (Feb 15, 2012)

Can someone help me understand the CAO?


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## JianhanC (Feb 15, 2012)

PandaCuber said:


> Can someone help me understand the CAO?


 
Do you know COLL? If you use this recognition in CMLL of Roux it should help you. C denotes correct (I think?) and if the case is a C/C, then the FU sticker is the same colour with the FUR sticker and at the same time the RU sticker is the same colour as the RFU sticker. A denotes adjacent while O denotes opposite. For example, O/A. The FU sticker and the FUR sticker are opposite colours (g/b, r/o, w/y etc) while the RU sticker and the RFU sticker are adjacent colours (b/o, r/b, g/o...). On the other hand, OxA for example is really the same thing, but 'crossed'. O/A compares the FU and FUR stickers and RU and RFU stickers while OxA compares the FU and RFU stickers and RU and FUR stickers.


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## PandaCuber (Feb 15, 2012)

JianhanC said:


> Do you know COLL? If you use this recognition in CMLL of Roux it should help you. C denotes correct (I think?) and if the case is a C/C, then the FU sticker is the same colour with the FUR sticker and at the same time the RU sticker is the same colour as the RFU sticker. A denotes adjacent while O denotes opposite. For example, O/A. The FU sticker and the FUR sticker are opposite colours (g/b, r/o, w/y etc) while the RU sticker and the RFU sticker are adjacent colours (b/o, r/b, g/o...). On the other hand, OxA for example is really the same thing, but 'crossed'. O/A compares the FU and FUR stickers and RU and RFU stickers while OxA compares the FU and RFU stickers and RU and FUR stickers.



Thanks! Now I get it.


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