# Fewest Moves: New World Record 20 moves



## okayama (Jul 13, 2012)

Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭) 20 Move FMC WR

Sorry to keep you waiting.
Now I'm back to the hotel and as a first thing to do I came here. 

I am pretty happy to announce that the oldest official world record (Fewest Moves: 22 moves)
has been finally broken as follows.

Scramble: L' F2 R B2 D2 L' B2 U B2 L B' R' U B2 D' R U B' (18f*)
Solution: L2 U2 L F' U' F2 U D' B' R2 F2 D B2 D' U F D F' U' F (20f)



Spoiler



NISS solve.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L

2x2x3 block: B2 D' F R2 B D

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: D' B' R2 F' D B2

All but 4 corners: L2 U2 L F' U' F2 U
Correction: D' B' R2 F' * D B2

Insert at *: F' D B2 D' + F D B2 D'
Insert at +: U F D F' U' F D' F'


I got the 13-move skeleton in 19 min., and wrote down the 20-move
final solution in 50 min. Then I checked the solution again and again,
and was satisfied in 55 min. I brought my sheet to Ton Dennenbroek and
reported my result.

Thanks to everyone, I finally did it!
But as Mike Hughey said, it is not the end, but surely this record will be further broken.
The next world record is under God's number!


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## ardi4nto (Jul 13, 2012)

Congrats Tomoaki for the WR!
Can we see your solution?


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## Pro94 (Jul 13, 2012)

Jakube said:


> Tomoaki Okayama (岡山友昭) 20 Move FMC WR



Congratulations


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## kbh (Jul 13, 2012)

FMC WR?? Finally!! Congratulations!


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## Julian (Jul 13, 2012)

Yes, great job Tomoaki!

20 moves


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## irontwig (Jul 13, 2012)

Congrats, pretty sure 20 will stand unbeaten for quite a while.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 13, 2012)

irontwig said:


> Congrats, pretty sure 20 will stand unbeaten for quite a while.



I do agree that this is very likely (after all, the last record stood for years), but it's definitely not guaranteed - all it takes is one lucky solve (and a really good competitor!).

Great result! I am looking forward to hopefully getting to see the solution.


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## Cubenovice (Jul 13, 2012)

Congratulations Tomoaki!
Nice comeback 


Scramble: L' F2 R B2 D2 L' B2 U B2 L B' R' U B2 D' R U B'


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## cubernya (Jul 13, 2012)

Correct your signature now  Your number is god's number, 20

Awesome job


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## ardi4nto (Jul 14, 2012)

Awesome 20 moves non-lucky solution! 13 moves skeleton and 9 moves cancellation for 2 corner cycle insertions, brilliant!
You deserved it!


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## bran (Jul 14, 2012)

Congratulations on the World Record


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## Sa967St (Jul 14, 2012)

Congratulations!


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## A Leman (Jul 14, 2012)

great job! that is amazing blockbuilding!


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## cmhardw (Jul 14, 2012)

Congratulations! This is an amazing result! Very inspiring!


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## cubecraze1 (Jul 14, 2012)

I went through the solution, my reaction was "mother of god"


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## Kian (Jul 14, 2012)

We can now refer to the Okayama number instead.


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## sneaklyfox (Jul 14, 2012)

Congratulations!


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 14, 2012)

Kian said:


> We can now refer to the Okayama number instead.



I like it!


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## Escher (Jul 14, 2012)

Okayama - 1
God - 0


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## tx789 (Jul 14, 2012)

well done close to opitmal


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## god of rubic 2 (Jul 14, 2012)

Congrats


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## shreyasatre (Jul 14, 2012)

Those scientists are going to have a really hard time to get the God's number below 20! Congrats Okayama!


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## cubecraze1 (Jul 14, 2012)

shreyasatre said:


> Those scientists are going to have a really hard time to get the God's number below 20! Congrats Okayama!



gods number can't be below 20 because they've already found combinations that need at least 20.


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## uberCuber (Jul 14, 2012)

cubecraze1 said:


> gods number can't be below 20 because they've already found combinations that need at least 20.



That's why it's going to be so hard for them. They are going to have to re-design the cube :3


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## cubecraze1 (Jul 14, 2012)

uberCuber said:


> That's why it's going to be so hard for them. They are going to have to re-design the cube :3



lol make impossible combinations


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## TMOY (Jul 14, 2012)

shreyasatre said:


> Those scientists are going to have a really hard time to get the God's number below 20!!


With STM it may be doable


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## pjk (Jul 14, 2012)

Congrats!



Escher said:


> Okayama - 1
> God - 0


Haha.


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## Dene (Jul 14, 2012)

Whoa crazy man XD


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## Ickenicke (Jul 14, 2012)

Congrats!


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## antros (Jul 14, 2012)

Your signature is now outdated ("God's number is 20. My number is 30. (FMC/classic #266 - ongoing...)") Congrat!


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## Zane_C (Jul 14, 2012)

Whoa whoa whoa... amazing. Congratulations!


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## tx789 (Jul 14, 2012)

Now 300 million scrambles can only equal it, as the fmc world record gets shirt you need more and 
More luck to get it


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## rubixwiz031 (Jul 14, 2012)

Wow! Unbelievable!


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## SpiderSwede (Jul 14, 2012)

antros said:


> Your signature is now outdated ("God's number is 20. My number is 30. (FMC/classic #266 - ongoing...)") Congrat!



Yeah, he should change it to "God's number is... mine" xD


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## Stefan (Jul 14, 2012)

okayama said:


> Scramble: L' F2 R B2 D2 L' B2 U B2 L B' R' U B2 D' R U B' (18f)



You can mark that as "(18f*)", as Cube Explorer told me it's optimal.

Congratulations!


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## irontwig (Jul 14, 2012)

Nice, I didn't expect the solution to be one with two insertions, but rather one when everything falls into place in the end.


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## okayama (Jul 14, 2012)

Stefan said:


> You can mark that as "(18f*)", as Cube Explorer told me it's optimal.
> 
> Congratulations!



Thanks, I added *.

To people saying about my signature:
My number is still 30 because my shortest solution for (the hardest scramble) is still 30-move.
If you understand what is God's number, you may understand what I say.
(I'm not saying about the official attempts with 1-hour limit, but saying without time-limit)

Strictly speaking, that (my number is 30) is not proved since I haven't try all the scrambles of the possible states.
But the hardest scramble and also this scramble can be considered as good benchmarks to know your number.

Anyway thanks to everyone here!


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## Endgame (Jul 14, 2012)

Congratulations and keep up the good work!


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## PandaCuber (Jul 14, 2012)

Nice


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## Attila (Jul 14, 2012)

Congratulations! 
I think, you really deserved this success.


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## stevecho816 (Jul 14, 2012)

That is incredible.Your equal to god.


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## guusrs (Jul 14, 2012)

Hi Tomoaki,
I was on the beach all day and now just heard this great news.
Very smart solve!
This defenitely should have happened some time
I'm glad it's you!
Congratulations.
Gus


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## Sillas (Jul 15, 2012)

Congratulations!


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## AlexByard (Jul 16, 2012)

Well done!


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## AbstractAlg (Jul 16, 2012)

congratz. makes me want to try fmc.


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## ben1996123 (Jul 17, 2012)

Once the world record is under 20 moves, would all FMC scrambles have to have at least 1 solution that beats or ties the WR to make it fair?

Also, the longest standing WR is now square 1 single.


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## qqwref (Jul 17, 2012)

ben1996123 said:


> Once the world record is under 20 moves, would all FMC scrambles have to have at least 1 solution that beats or ties the WR to make it fair?


I'd say no, but that brings up an interesting point: eventually we may have a situation where it is mathematically impossible to beat the world record in some competitions.

Of course, this is arguably true for, say, 2x2 single as well... but FMC is an actual event.


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## cubeflip (Jul 17, 2012)

stopmotion animation


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## Kirjava (Jul 17, 2012)

qqwref said:


> this is arguably true for, say, 2x2 single as well... but FMC is an actual event.



How is 2x2x2 single not?


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## lras (Jul 17, 2012)

qqwref said:


> I'd say no, but that brings up an interesting point: eventually we may have a situation where it is mathematically impossible to beat the world record in some competitions.


Agreed, but you must note that the distance for the most position of the cube (from the solved position) is 18 (http://www.cube20.org/) so the real problem will occur when the WR will be 18 (or less).


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## MTGjumper (Jul 17, 2012)

lras said:


> Agreed, but you must note that the distance for the most position of the cube (from the solved position) is 18 (http://www.cube20.org/) so the real problem will occur when the WR will be 18 (or less).



Some positions require 20 moves, such as the superflip. As it stands, in some rounds of FMC, you won't be able to beat the world record.


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## lras (Jul 17, 2012)

MTGjumper said:


> Some positions require 20 moves, such as the superflip. As it stands, in some rounds of FMC, you won't be able to beat the world record.



Some do indeed, but there are only ~3*10^8 such position out of ~4*10^19 (see the link), so practically you will never one by using a random-state scrambler. (The Cube Explorer is very good solver program, but it doesn't find an optimal solution in every case.)


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## Kirjava (Jul 17, 2012)

lras said:


> (The Cube Explorer is very good solver program, but it doesn't find an optimal solution in every case.)



It can do so easily.


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## Stefan (Jul 17, 2012)

MTGjumper said:


> Some positions require 20 moves, such as the superflip. As it stands, *in some rounds of FMC, you won't be able to beat the world record.*



"some" and "you"?

Will happen once in about 133333333333 scrambles and we've had about 400 so far.

=> I don't think he (or any of us, or cubing) will live long enough for your statement to be correct (but mainly because you mentioned 20 moves, since it'll become much more likely to happen should someone improve the record further, which is also rare, but I'm guessing not as rare as 20f* positions).


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## MTGjumper (Jul 17, 2012)

Stefan said:


> "some" and "you"?
> 
> Will happen once in about 133333333333 scrambles and we've had about 400 so far.
> 
> => I don't think he (or any of us, or cubing) will live long enough for your statement to be correct (but mainly because you mentioned 20 moves, since it'll become much more likely to happen should someone improve the record further, which is also rare, but I'm guessing not as rare as 20f* positions).



Hmm, I didn't realise that positions of depths >18 were so uncommon. (For what it's worth, Iras' wording implied that the maximum depth was 18, and that was the point I was mainly addressing.)


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## Stefan (Jul 17, 2012)

MTGjumper said:


> Hmm, I didn't realise that positions of depths >18 were so uncommon.



We were talking about 20f*, not >18. Only 20f* positions prevent beating the current WR.

(19f* is rather common, about 1 in 29)


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## bcube (Jul 20, 2012)

Pardon me, but what does NISS stand for?


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## cubernya (Jul 20, 2012)

bcube said:


> Pardon me, but what does NISS stand for?



Normal Inverse Scramble Switch

Aka you switch between the given scramble and its inverse for the solution


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## Crazycubemom (Jul 20, 2012)

Congrats Tomoaki san 

Take a look at my Avatar  I'm with a handsome Asian cuber


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## Michael Womack (Jul 23, 2012)

Congrats Tomoaki

so now FMC event is over or what?


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## 5BLD (Jul 23, 2012)

Wow! Amazing solution... God has been reached. 


Michael Womack said:


> so now FMC event is over or what?



What?


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## Ickenicke (Jul 23, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Wow! Amazing solution... God has been reached.
> 
> 
> What?



I guess he think FMC is over when 20 moves is reached.


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## Michael Womack (Jul 23, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I guess he think FMC is over when 20 moves is reached.



yes that is correct


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## Ickenicke (Jul 23, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> yes that is correct



At most scrambles it is possible to solve it in less than 20 moves. 20-moves (optimal scrambles) are rare.


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## RNewms27 (Jul 23, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> yes that is correct



Fewest moves can be done under 20, so it does not end.


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## 5BLD (Jul 23, 2012)

Ickenicke said:


> I guess he think FMC is over when 20 moves is reached.



I know. What's wrong with beating god?
On a serious note, most scrambles, as has been reiterated many times, can be solved sub-20.


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## Ickenicke (Jul 23, 2012)

5BLD said:


> I know. What's wrong with beating god?


I guess he thinks that you always need at least 20 moves to solve a scramble


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## DaveyCow (Jul 23, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> so now FMC event is over or what?



Of course not  Just because a WR was set that seems impossible or very improbable to beat doesnt mean one should stop enjoying the fun of said event. Should we stop speedsolving 3x3 just because of faz's WR?


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## qqwref (Jul 24, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> How is 2x2x2 single not?


Because the main event is the average.



lras said:


> Agreed, but you must note that the distance for the most position of the cube (from the solved position) is 18 (http://www.cube20.org/) so the real problem will occur when the WR will be 18 (or less).


Yes, and I think it'll eventually get down there


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## Michael Womack (Jul 24, 2012)

I never seen people in this event so can someone explain to me how the event works?


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## Julian (Jul 24, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> I never seen people in this event so can someone explain to me how the event works?


http://worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#fewestmovessolving


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## Michael Womack (Jul 24, 2012)

Julian said:


> http://worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#fewestmovessolving



Thanks but do the get to use a cube to find the solution?


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## Julian (Jul 24, 2012)

Yes. 3, actually.


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## Ranzha (Jul 24, 2012)

Michael Womack said:


> Thanks but do the get to use a cube to find the solution?



If you actually read the text on the link Julian gave you, you'd see this:

E3)	The competitor may use the following objects: paper and pen (both supplied by judge), 3 cubes (self supplied), unlimited coloured stickers (self supplied).
E3a) Penalty for using other objects: disqualification of the solve.


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## Kirjava (Jul 24, 2012)

qqwref said:


> Because the main event is the average.



Hah, I see what you mean now. That was pretty unclear.

However, if you're saying that the single could be impossible to beat (lets assume this is true) - the same could also be true of the average in future.


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## Goosly (Jul 24, 2012)

ben1996123 said:


> Once the world record is under 20 moves, would all FMC scrambles have to have at least 1 solution that beats or ties the WR to make it fair?



Should the 100m sprint be shortened by a few meters when there's too much crosswind and the WR is thus impossible to break?


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## Cubenovice (Jul 24, 2012)

Just wondering:
Does the WCA scramble generator actually exclude optimal scrambles below a certain length?

If so which length is it currently and would it make sense to have a seperate boundary for FMC?

Imagine a 13 HTM scramble popping up at Moves are for Noobs with some of the Top FMC-ers present


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## Stefan (Jul 24, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Wow! Amazing solution... *God has been reached*.



No, God's solution is two moves shorter.


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## Zane_C (Jul 24, 2012)

In regards to finding God's solution, is there an approximation for the number of unique optimal solutions to a scramble?


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## Kirjava (Jul 24, 2012)

Zane_C said:


> In regards to finding God's solution, is there an approximation for the number of unique optimal solutions to a scramble?



For any scramble or for a specific scramble? The former sounds very difficult to work out.


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## Zane_C (Jul 24, 2012)

Kirjava said:


> For any scramble or for a specific scramble? The former sounds very difficult to work out.


I was initially asking about any scramble (so an approximate average). But now that you've mentioned that, I'll limit my question to a specific scramble (FMC WR scramble). The reason I ask is so I can get an idea of how great of a feat it would be to find one of the God solutions.


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## Stefan (Jul 24, 2012)

According to http://cubezzz.dyndns.org/drupal/text/fullcube.txt there are 2.467*10^20 scrambles of 18 moves and according to http://cube20.org/ there are about 2.9*10^19 states requiring 18 moves. So if I'm not mistaken, the majority of states (too lazy to do check the other lenghts now) average about 8.5 optimal solutions.

Though, what did you mean with "*unique* optimal solutions"?


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## Kirjava (Jul 24, 2012)

Stefan said:


> according to http://cube20.org/ there are about 2.9*10^19 states requiring 18 moves



huh?

I thought cube20 didn't bother solving all cases optimally?

EDIT: Ah, it's an estimate.


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## cuBerBruce (Jul 24, 2012)

Stefan said:


> According to http://cubezzz.dyndns.org/drupal/text/fullcube.txt there are 2.467*10^20 scrambles of 18 moves and according to http://cube20.org/ there are about 2.9*10^19 states requiring 18 moves. So if I'm not mistaken, the majority of states (too lazy to do check the other lenghts now) average about 8.5 optimal solutions.



The 2.467*10^20 figure includes many suboptimal scrambles for positions of lesser distance. So the actual average number of optimal solutions will be less than 8.5. (I note this assumes we count only "canonical" scrambles, where the same face can't be turned twice in succession and adjacent commuting moves are done in a specific order.)

My belated congratulations to Tomoaki!


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## Stefan (Jul 24, 2012)

Ah right, so I was indeed mistaken. Thanks for catching it. Exam and US trip coming up, so I was sloppy :-(. Well, even better if that's just an upper bound, making the feat even more impressive.


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## Zane_C (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks Stefan and Bruce.



Stefan said:


> Though, what did you mean with "*unique* optimal solutions"?


I only used the word 'unique' to emphasise 'different optimal solutions for the same scramble'.


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## Soullark (Feb 20, 2013)

is that possible? to solve under gods number?


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## littlewing1208 (Feb 20, 2013)

Soullark said:


> is that possible? to solve under gods number?



God's number is an upper bound. Take a solved cube and do a U. The solution is U' .

God's number says that any given state takes at maximum 20 moves to solve.


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## qqwref (Feb 20, 2013)

All God's Number means is that for all scrambles you could theoretically tie or beat the WR.

However, there are some scrambles where beating the current WR is impossible (you can only tie it)... although they are very rare.


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## DavidCubie (Apr 22, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF2J39Xny4Q

So if this is true, FMC world record (fewest moves) won't be broken never, it's 20 now.


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## antoineccantin (Apr 22, 2013)

DavidCubie said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF2J39Xny4Q
> 
> So if this is true, FMC world record (fewest moves) won't be broken never, it's 20 now.



:fp As he says, 20 moves is the MAX number of moves it can take.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hfscd5HL78


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## tx789 (Apr 22, 2013)

when it reaches 1 it will never be broken


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## antoineccantin (Apr 22, 2013)

tx789 said:


> when it reaches 1 it will never be broken



It can't with the current regulations, because the scramble would be solved, with penalty.


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## MaeLSTRoM (Apr 22, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> It can't with the current regulations, because the scramble would be solved, with penalty.



Umm no because FMC doesn't have a +2? So its still a valid scramble and 1 would be a valid solution....


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## Musicalboy2 (Apr 23, 2013)

DavidCubie said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF2J39Xny4Q
> 
> So if this is true, FMC world record (fewest moves) won't be broken never, it's 20 now.



If I remember correctly, most scrambles have an optimal solution of 18 moves, and there are more scrambles with an optimal solution of 12 moves than there are scrambles with optimal solutions of 20 moves.


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## Mike Hughey (Apr 23, 2013)

DavidCubie said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF2J39Xny4Q
> 
> So if this is true, FMC world record (fewest moves) won't be broken never, it's 20 now.



I think it's interesting this comment was just made, since Guus just thoroughly beat it *unofficially* in the weekly competition two weeks ago.

17 moves! And he found it in just 20 minutes!

It certainly seems like this UWR should be pretty challenging to break (at least with competition-valid scrambles).


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