# Set-up moves



## Inusagi (Apr 1, 2008)

I am not good at set-up moves at all. Set-up moves is eating my time. Let's say I got a cycle of 3 with the corners. URB goes to ULF goes to DRF. I don't really know what to do. When I think of a way to do the set-up moves then my time goes. I use very long time, because the move count must be 5 moves max. because I must do it backward after that. Could someone help me with this problem? Is there a easy rule for this, so I don't lose it when I am going to do it backward? 

This is just a problem I have for the permutation, not the orientation...


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## joey (Apr 1, 2008)

You have not said which method you are using.


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## Inusagi (Apr 1, 2008)

I use 3-cycle


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## alexm (Apr 1, 2008)

Hey there. I know I don't post much (read: ever) but I thought I'd reply to this one.

I'd do something like D' R2 D R2 (cycle*) R2 D' R2 D

* Try it slowly and follow the corners while setting them up, you can see where they go and which cycle to do.


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## McWizzle94 (Apr 1, 2008)

Try this:

D-R2 D R2 D' R2 U2 R2 D R2 D' R2 U2-D'

The D sets it up at URB-->ULF-->DRB, the middle part is the cycle algorithm, and the D' returns it to how it was before the set up. You can also use the algorithm backwards to do that 3-cycle backwards.


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## alexc (Apr 1, 2008)

Learn algs to cycle corners diagonally. All of the other cases you should be able to do easily. 2 setups at the most are required. Often times just one.


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## Marcell (Apr 1, 2008)

As alexc said: learn alg for diagonal cycle.
U (setup) - ((R' F R F')3 U2)2 - U'


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## Inusagi (Apr 1, 2008)

alexc said:


> Learn algs to cycle corners diagonally. All of the other cases you should be able to do easily. 2 setups at the most are required. Often times just one.



Is there a place to learn the algs? Or did you mean that I should find out by myself. I don't know if I know all the cases...

By the way, the only cases I use for Permutation is:
Edges:
3 cycle: U perm
2 cycle: Z & H perm

Corners:

3 cycle: Corner switcher both way.
2 cycle: H perm and the one that change the UF corners and UB corners (don't remember the name)

Thanks for those who answered my example, but my biggest problem is the edges. My examples was just to get you to understand what I meant.


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## alexc (Apr 1, 2008)

Another good two algs for EP are U2 M' U2 M and its inverse, M' U2 M U2.


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## Inusagi (Apr 1, 2008)

Thanks! It will be easier with set-up moves for edges with those algs. You said max. moves for CP set-up is 2 moves without corners who must go diagonally, but could you (or anybody else) tell me the move count for EP?


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## alexc (Apr 1, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> Thanks! It will be easier with set-up moves for edges with those algs. You said max. moves for CP set-up is 2 moves without corners who must go diagonally, but could you (or anybody else) tell me the move count for EP?



I honestly don't know I don't use 3OP for edges I use M2.


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## Lucas Garron (Apr 2, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> Thanks! It will be easier with set-up moves for edges with those algs. You said max. moves for CP set-up is 2 moves without corners who must go diagonally, but could you (or anybody else) tell me the move count for EP?


I can use one setup move at most for 3OP, both for EP and CP, and do so nearly all the time in actual execution.
(Excluding parity setups.)

For URF-ULF-DRF I would do Uy setup and R2'UL2'UR2U'L2'UR2'U2R2' for the alg.
(D' setup and the inverse of that alg, maybe.)

EDIT: Just tried a solve, and I used 2 setup moves total (EP+CP).
2 again...
3...


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## hait2 (Apr 2, 2008)

U' R2 U R2 U F2 U' R2 U' R2 U F2

a very useful alg and very easy to remember (u' u => u' u' and always r2 r2 f2)


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## Inusagi (Apr 3, 2008)

What about parity set-up moves? I think that's the biggest problem that I have concerning set-up moves.


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## AvGalen (Apr 3, 2008)

I always have trouble with diagonal corners. I should have just learned an alg for it a long time ago.

I just optimized haits alg to be a little faster: R U2 R' U' L2 U R U' L2 U' R'


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## Inusagi (Apr 7, 2008)

I still need help with the Parity case...


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## tim (Apr 8, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> I still need help with the Parity case...



What's your problem with them? Just setup 2 corners + 2 edges to one layer and perform a PLL. That's it. If you've trouble with a specific case, just post it.


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## Inusagi (Apr 8, 2008)

The problem is to reverse the set-up moves. I can't remember what I did. Sometime I use long time before doing the set-up moves, so I am sure that I can reverse it correctly. But this takes too long. Also I am very close to forget what I have to remember. I have the same problem with 2-cycles, but I guess parity is harder...


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## Nghia (Apr 8, 2008)

Hello Inusagi,

For corners I still use 3-cycles. For normal 3-cycles I know the usual algs plus the one hait2 talked about, the diagonal corners cycler. 

CP(731): (R2'DR2D'R2-U2)x2
CP(375): (R2U'R2'UR2-D2')x2

(Courtesy from Macky's site)

Those have the same effect (if you have the same piece numeration as Macky) and I think they are quite easy to remember.

***

As for setup moves in general, I've read this somewhere and apparently you should try to follow an "order" like Left or Right moves before Front or Back moves, then Up or Down moves or something like that. 
I personally don't use that but instead when I forget the setup moves, I just try to retrace the initial state of the cube (before the setup moves) and they will just come to my mind.
I guess the point of the whole thing is to practice, as everybody says.

(On my first attempts, I even had to remember the cube rotations and all -.- so I think you don't need to worry too much about it)

Voila, hope it helped you

Good Luck


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## Inusagi (Apr 8, 2008)

I do the U/D then R/L then F/B turns if it's possible. But it doesn't work always.


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## hait2 (Apr 12, 2008)

usually the setup moves shouldn't be more than .. say .. 3?
and usually i only think of one way of doing it during the solve
i'd easily remember my last setup move, and while undoing it, recreate the state (if i forgot how the pieces moved) and see what would've been my first move. and figure it out that way. usually you just kinda feel it though.. not the moves themselves but how the pieces were affected by them. or at least that's how i do it

edit: give me some example and i could show you my thought process and my 'remembering' process


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## Inusagi (Apr 12, 2008)

Thanks for trying to help!

Examples:
1. This one is a Parity. 
Edges: UF and UR got to change. 
Corners: URB ans DFL got to change. 

2. 2 2-cycles for corners
First cycle: URB and UFL got to change 
Second cycle: DBR and DFL got to change

I know it's not that hard to solve, but it's hard to know which algorithm to use after I have done the set-up. I just forget which pieces that much change, after I have done the set-up moves, because the pieces is a another place then before the set-up moves. I'll find it out rigth after, but the problem is that the time is till moving. Do you know about some rules that can help me on this?


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## Subaruiz (Apr 12, 2008)

Why did you change the set up moves when you have parity ? Do a PLL , whith that , URB and URF change , and you have them in their good place , so use the same set up than you use when you haven't parity , and when you have solve the corners , execute PLL Z , and your cube will be solved.


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## Simboubou (Apr 13, 2008)

( Hi Subaruiz ! )



Inusagi said:


> Thanks for trying to help!
> 
> Examples:
> 1. This one is a Parity.
> ...



For case 1 do L2+PLL R+L2
For case 2 do : [LF']*3. This will switch UFL and DFL, and Two edges. Do this algorithm one more time on URB and DRB, and the cube will be solved.

I know a trick that may help you... which method do you use ?


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## Inusagi (Apr 13, 2008)

Thanks. I use 3-cycle


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## hait2 (Apr 13, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> Thanks for trying to help!
> 
> Examples:
> 1. This one is a Parity.
> ...



for the first one, UF UR URB are all on the same slice, so immediately i just think of how to bring up DFL up there to do a PLL, which would be L2 into R-perm, so if i managed to forget somehow, i just think back to "oh, i wanted to make this into a PLL, so i must've done L2" although only 1 setup move you really shouldn't forget

for the 2nd, i just think that Hperm U2 would solve it, so i set it up on the F face, with R2, rotate by x, and apply that. so... R2 x Hperm U2 x' R2


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## Simboubou (Apr 13, 2008)

Inusagi said:


> Thanks. I use 3-cycle



Ouch, this trick is not really designed for a pure 3-cycles...
Anyway, when you are a beginner, you can take more time to solve the parities : try to "move" these parities to a better location.

If you end up with a parity on the corners, "move" if to UFR and UBR. For instance, if at the end you have UFR and DBL switched, do L2 then a PLL A to do : UBR->UFR->ULF, and L2 again. Now, DBL is solve, and the two other are switched.
For edges, use the same method to "move" the parity to UR and UF.

So, eventually, you will end up with UFR-UBR and UF-UR to solve... this is just a PLL J !

Did you understand ( my english is not perfect .
The idea is to Solve the parity by creating a new one in a certain location. It is easier. ( And longer, but for the moment, it is enough... )


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## hait2 (Apr 14, 2008)

if you're going to use a trick like that.. there's a simpler one

use an algorithm that cycles an even number of edges and an even number of corners, thus getting rid of any parity. in fact, the simplest of such algorithms is U. It's a 4cycle of corners and a 4cycle of edges. if you discover you have parity, do an imaginary U turn and memorize everything as if you'd made the U turn. then start your solve by doing a U turn and voila, you don't even have parity in your solve.

i never bothered with this, but i can see how it would be helpful, and definitely more helpful than simply relocating the parity

edit: this is for corner-edge parity. if you have a corner-corner or edge-edge parity, well those are pretty easy to solve anyway so they aren't a big deal


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