# Yet another cube simulator hacker?



## Robert-Y (May 4, 2009)

http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/speed.html

Take a look at all of Garzon's replays, all of them except for maybe one or two, appear fake to me. There doesn't seem to be any hesitations in any solves. The transition from OLL to PLL is almost too good to be true IMO. This guy already had one of his solves removed on ryan's simulator but ryan didn't remove his other solves on hi-games.net although I did email him before:

http://hi-games.net/cube-3x3x3/watch?u=1271
http://hi-games.net/cube-2x2x2/watch?u=1271
http://hi-games.net/cube-4x4x4/watch?u=1271

Pay attention to the 3x3x3 on his 4x4x4 solve. It is so slow in comparison to his other 3x3x3 solves. Also, his 2x2x2 solve is rather slow.

In the past, some of you may remember that Garzon set his sub-8 3x3x3 solves on hi-games.net and the original cube simulator within one or two days of playing on the simulators. He's surely a fake right? None of you believe that his solves are real, do you?


----------



## dougbenham (May 4, 2009)

Maybe he was just screwing around on the 2x2 and 4x4. And he probably practiced a bunch on the http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/speed.html simulator before going to hi-games.net because hi-games.net automatically submits your times. Plus I noticed he pauses at several points throughout his 3x3 solves.


----------



## Robert-Y (May 4, 2009)

Practised a bunch? He didn't even appear in the top 10 singles nor the top 5 for averages before on the original cube simulator. Let's say he wasn't a cheater. That would mean that his single record jumped from at least 10 secs to sub-8 and that would mean that his avg of 10 jumped from at least 11-12 secs to sub-9.5.


----------



## dougbenham (May 4, 2009)

Maybe he didn't want to submit his times until he was in the top-3 or so. Why play unless you intend to be the best?


----------



## Robert-Y (May 4, 2009)

Dammit, I can't actually argue against that.... What I'm trying to do is to find out for certain if he is a cheater or a not. The evidence I have isn't particularly strong enough to suggest that he is a cheater (or not a cheater).

"Plus I noticed he pauses at several points throughout his 3x3 solves."

Hmm yeah, I noticed that as well. He seems to pause at unusual places e.g. whilst executing a PLL alg.


----------



## dougbenham (May 4, 2009)

I think that a person that has enough free time on their hands to cheat on an online program, is not worth your time or anyone else's time. After all its just a game.


----------



## Robert-Y (May 4, 2009)

True, it's just I don't think it's fair for the other people who have worked hard to get where they are now the cube simulators. What if some random person cheated in a comp and beat Erik's 7.08? That would just anger a lot of speedcubers.


----------



## Lt-UnReaL (May 4, 2009)

Transition to his OLL and PLL is either super-human or fake. Btw, when did he do that 4x4 solve compared to his 9.46 avg of 12?


----------



## Robert-Y (May 4, 2009)

He did all his hi-games.net solves the day he joined hi-games.net I think. I don't remember the date but you could guess from his id...


----------



## PhillipEspinoza (May 4, 2009)

There's no doubt in my mind he's a hacker. Anyone email Ryan about this?


----------



## Robert-Y (May 4, 2009)

Actually Lt Unreal, I think I have the date: 23rd Oct 2008. I emailed ryan about his past solves and he said this:

Robert Yau wrote:

> Hi Ryan, I recently saw
that this new person who goes by the name of
> "garzon" has set a time of 7.36 on your original sim. At first I
> thought it was real but then:
> 
> 1. I thought to myself, how can someone beat everyone else in only a
> few days?

I was also suspicious for the same reason.

> 2. How is it that he's moving at over 8tps (just a guess,

I
haven't
> actually checked) when (I think) no-one has ever done that before?

Looking at the record itself, I can't find anything suspicious about it.
It uses a similar number of keystrokes to Harris Chan's record, and is
about the same time, therefore a similar tps. And though there are some
short bursts of increased speed, Harris Chan has even faster bursts of
increased speed.

> 3. I asked some people about him and some people told me that maybe he
> used a program to speed up his solves. 4. If you go onto his account
> on
hi-games.net and watch the replay of his 2x2 solve, he moves rather
> slowly, and on his 4x4 solve, his 3x3 part is rather slow (as well as
> the rest of his solve).
> 
> So, to conclude, I think he is fake but I don't know for sure. Can you
> possibly find out if he is really fake? If he is, then ban him
> immediately and make your
website
more hacker-proof in the future lol.

The only way to be sure would be to challenge him on multiplayer and see
how long it actually takes to receive the opponent's solution.

> On a lighter note, any plans on tesselate multiplayer with up to 4
> players playing simultanouesly? If so, I was thinking of putting in
> power-ups e.g. a power up which makes random holes in your opponent's
> play screen, or a power up which reverses your opponent's controls
> etc. Also I was thinking of having a team option. Just ask me for
> ideas if you're
considering making a tesselate multiplayer game! 
> 
> Thanks, and keep up the work 
> 
> Robert, (possibly your no.1 fan lol)

Heh  Multiplayer... some day I'll add it to all the games. But I'm
not finished with single player yet. I will be adding about 20 different
modes of single player. E.g. 2 minute speed run,
20G,
etc.

-- 
Ryan Heise
http://www.ryanheise.com/


----------



## Deleted member 2864 (May 4, 2009)

maybe he knows ROLL for his last layer, that way, you don't have to pause on your PLL


----------



## Robert-Y (May 4, 2009)

Hmm... after watching his solves again, it seems that he got a few OLL and PLL skips...


----------



## Daniel Wu (May 4, 2009)

I don't know. But I probably wouldn't know. I'm not that fast. But to me, his OLL to PLL is superhuman but he pauses halfway through PLL.


----------



## shoot1510 (May 4, 2009)

You must watch this replay it soo funny. 1 turn. lolololololol.
http://hi-games.net/cube-2x2x2/watch?u=187
I think Ryan use the program called cheat engine.
He might slow the game down so he could have great look ahead while the time goes really really slow


----------



## qqwref (May 4, 2009)

I agree that I think Garzon is a hacker. Of course there is no way to know for SURE... but that's what the 3x3 solves look like to me. The 2x2 and 4x4 solves are also VERY slow for someone who's supposedly that fast at 3x3. Watch his 2x2 solve especially, one move layer and CLL, but his turnspeed is sooooooo slow.



dougbenham said:


> I think that a person that has enough free time on their hands to cheat on an online program, is not worth your time or anyone else's time. After all its just a game.



I don't understand what you mean "not worth your time". It's worth my time to get rid of a hacker if it pushes my rank up by one...



Robert-Y said:


> Ryan_Heise said:
> 
> 
> > I will be adding about 20 different modes of single player [tetris].


----------



## dougbenham (May 4, 2009)

I just want to warn you all against calling him a hacker. Wikipedia defines hacker as the following: "In common usage, a hacker is a person who breaks into computers". Garzon doesn't seem to be breaking into the system in any way or "hacking" the data. The replays show regular Fridrich solves, so his times are theoretically possible and thus you should not call him a hacker. Computer-aided cheater might be a more appropriate term.


----------



## byu (May 4, 2009)

This seriously remiss me of Michael's "Robert Yau is a cheater" belief from January. Except this time Robert is the accuser, not the accused.


----------



## qqwref (May 4, 2009)

dougbenham said:


> I just want to warn you all against calling him a hacker. Wikipedia defines hacker as the following: "In common usage, a hacker is a person who breaks into computers". Garzon doesn't seem to be breaking into the system in any way or "hacking" the data. The replays show regular Fridrich solves, so his times are theoretically possible and thus you should not call him a hacker. Computer-aided cheater might be a more appropriate term.



If it's indeed a cheated solve, submitting it would, in my opinion, count as hacking. Submitting a cheated solve amounts to hacking into code that is supposed to only let real, legitimate solves through. As for the times being theoretically possible, we've seen obviously fake times being quickly deleted before ("Haydee Pasha" posted a Cube Explorer solve of around 4-5 seconds) so I think it should be considered more of a survival strategy than an inability to make a "better" cheated solve.

Incidentally I think you're being extremely pedantic to be arguing about definitions. It's not like we're being unfair to a probable cheater (this time there's actually evidence, as opposed to just a hunch) by using the wrong word. And hacking is often used metaphorically anyway... I don't see why you care so much about the wording of what we say.


----------



## kajitatsu (May 5, 2009)

I believe there's a high possibility it's a cheater. They end differently in each case, sometimes a LL skip, looks forced, COLL or just OLL and PLL. It's probably a program, except the last layer must be a freestyle, analysing whether or not forcing LL skip, COLL or OLL/PLL would take the fewest moves. The PLLs are not noticably fingertricky, I'm betting it's just optimal move algorithms.


----------



## dougbenham (May 5, 2009)

qqwref said:


> dougbenham said:
> 
> 
> > I just want to warn you all against calling him a hacker. Wikipedia defines hacker as the following: "In common usage, a hacker is a person who breaks into computers". Garzon doesn't seem to be breaking into the system in any way or "hacking" the data. The replays show regular Fridrich solves, so his times are theoretically possible and thus you should not call him a hacker. Computer-aided cheater might be a more appropriate term.
> ...



I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. What "evidence" do you have?


----------



## Johannes91 (May 5, 2009)

qqwref said:


> dougbenham said:
> 
> 
> > Wikipedia defines hacker as the following: "In common usage, a hacker is a person who breaks into computers".
> ...


And I think it's wrong to say that that's _the definition_ Wikipedia gives; it's just how the word is commonly used -- no more, no less. Many people consider the usage incorrect.

See e.g. here: "In one of *several meanings* of the word in computing, a hacker is ...".


----------



## Konsta (May 5, 2009)

Garzon has cheated for sure. He had like 5.xx sec single solve in Ryan's page for some time, until I asked Ryan about it and he removed it right away.
I know some people watched that 'solve' and saw that it was only couple turns and after that timer just stopped, while the cube was obviously entirely scrambled.
I have no reason to believe that Garzon is not a cheater.


----------



## Robert-Y (May 5, 2009)

Konsta said:


> Garzon has cheated for sure. He had like 5.xx sec single solve in Ryan's page for some time, until I asked Ryan about it and he removed it right away.
> I know some people watched that 'solve' and saw that it was only couple turns and after that timer just stopped, while the cube was obviously entirely scrambled.
> I have no reason to believe that Garzon is not a cheater.



Oh yeah, I remember that too. I thought that maybe someone else could've hacked his solve...


----------



## dougbenham (May 6, 2009)

PhillipEspinoza said:


> In case you are wondering how Garzon might have cheated, I'm pretty sure he used this to help him out:
> 
> http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/generator.html
> 
> Ryan's new generator allows you to input moves, save them by pushing enter, then replay them at full speed by pressing the space bar. This means that you can do however many moves you want as slow as you want, and have it be played back full speed with no pauses. Hmmm... sounds familiar. So Garzon's solves could've technically been as slow as 5 minutes as he carefully optimized each move and it replays as full speed with no pauses. There's no doubt that Garzon can actually solve the cube, and probably fairly fast, but not as fast and smooth as his times claim to be on the simulator.



How would that have helped him in his solve(s)? The scrambles on hi-games.net are randomly generated... How would he be able to use the allotted 5 seconds inspection time to use the generator to help him in his solve?


----------

