# Your thoughts on ShuangRen



## MarcelP (May 18, 2013)

I am really interested in your thoughts on the puzzle.

I have had the puzzle only for 24 hours. I have done about 200 solves on it. I am not very impressed with the cube. I do get same averages as with my (Zhanchi) main cube. But it just does not feel as smooth and fast as my main. I tried different tensions, different lube. I wonder if I am the only guy at the moment that does not really appreciate his ShuangRen. I think it has too many contact points that makes it rather slow.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

I just made a video on it.. right here:



Spoiler



[video=youtube_share;Wj-Rwq_mHLQ]http://youtu.be/Wj-Rwq_mHLQ[/video]



I so suck at solving today  :fp

But no.. it is not living up to the hype.


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## DaRealPizza (May 18, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> I just made a video on it.. right here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have to say I just love you... your review of it was really good, and I just love your voice!


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

O_O really??



Thank you 


I thought the review also sucked haha, not just my solves.  I just loose-hand reviews most of the time, no structure. *giggle*


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## Lchu613 (May 18, 2013)

Tighten the dang thing lol


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

It cannot get much tighter than that. It is pretty much center pieces against core right there lol


Also.. any tighter and 
1) pretty much no more corner cutting, making solving even more irritating
2) cube starts getting panshi-like, insides grinding and bumping (and I removed ALL the flash meticulously)


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## Lchu613 (May 18, 2013)

Huh, maybe needs some better hardware or something
Maybe you should try switching out with Dayan hardware


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

You mean replace core washers and springs with the zhanchi stuff?


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## Lchu613 (May 18, 2013)

I guess yeah
It could be that the springs aren't stiff enough


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

I got me a core (three lol) laying about.. so.. assembling using the whole dayan innards stuff.. wait and see!


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## MarcelP (May 18, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> I just made a video on it.. right here:



Nice review!! Really. You must work on your 3 x 3 skills again  And the pro version you are talking about.. ShuangRen? I noticed the designer of the Moyu talking about a pro version.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

Then I must have mixed them up.. oh well lol


Replacing just the core and springs. Dayan screws are too short


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## jayefbe (May 18, 2013)

I love that the "Dayan has lost its throne" idea is already being thrown out the window after the ShuangRen has been out for a few days. People need to realize that hype exists to sell cubes, and CBC has a habit of exaggerating when it comes to new and rare cubes that only he has. Hopefully there's a lesson in this, and people will learn not to buy into the hype and to make judgements for themselves before making strong declarations like "the ShuangRen will replace the zhanchi". 

I just got mine yesterday. I like it a lot. It's a very good cube in my opinion. Is it better than the zhanchi? I don't think so. The ShuangRen feels too light to me. It took a few dozen solves to feel comfortable controlling it. I also really don't like the sound it makes. It's thankfully gotten quieter since I first got it, but it still is a bit grating. I find the corner cutting to be on par with the Dayan cubes. I don't find the cube to be too loose. It is very fast and can be difficult to control because of that, but it's actual a feeling I like. Overall, the cube is just below the zhanchi in my opinion. 

That said, the absolute worst thing about the ShuangRen is its potential for corner twisting. I've heard other people have this issue and it definitely happens to me. On my zhanchi, I'll have a corner twist once every few days and only during really rough turning. On the ShuangRen, I have corners twisting once ever 20 solves or so? Enough that it's a real issue. I'm guessing that with time I can get better at not causing it, but it's definitely an area of concern. 

When the mini version comes out, it will almost certainly replace the 55mm zhanchi as my OH main. The ShuangRen is so easy to turn, I have no doubt that it will be great for OH.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

It is not CBC. 

People make the hype, not him. He was just the first with a video out, and he liked it.

Doesn't mean if he jumps in a ditch I do it too ya know  People HERE made the hype. 



I replaced the springs.. oh my goodness. Quickly making another review


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## Username (May 18, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> It is not CBC.
> 
> People make the hype, not him. He was just the first with a video out, and he liked it.
> 
> ...



So what you did was changed the springs to dayan springs? or did you change the core?


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## MarcelP (May 18, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> I replaced the springs.. oh my goodness. Quickly making another review


oh now I am curious..  and jayefbe thanks for your thoughts. If have had many corner twists aswell.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

I changed the core and the springs.. though the core isn't really needed as they are the same size as your 55/57mm dayan core, so I don't really see (or know) the benefit of that, but ah well 

Copying a new review off my memory card now and going to upload that soon.

But YES, get Dayan springs, and replace them f/s springs with those, suddenly you want to take the cube to bed.

(ok not really lol, my zhanchi is still my main, but at least it is SOOO much better now, you'll see  )


Edit: uploading now! Should be live in about 55mins (yeah my upload speed sucks TOO!! hahaha)


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## windhero (May 18, 2013)

Weird though that people have such different opinions on the cube; Can the production be so unstable that every cube is different? Or does someone know something we dont know?

I'm definitely swapping a C4U core in with dayan springs/washers/screws anyway. I don't really trust this brand yet. The cube may be fast and good but if the quality is crap it doesn't really matter.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

Don't bother with the dayan screws.. they are too short, and the washers too big. Those you have to use the original hardware for.


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## windhero (May 18, 2013)

Righto, so only the springs? Interesting. I wonder if C4U springs would fit and how it would work out if I put a washer there as well.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

I changed the core as well, but I have NO clue what influence that might have, if any. The size is the same after all, just different shape.

Video is up:



Spoiler


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## Lchu613 (May 18, 2013)

You're very welcome for the idea lol


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## MarcelP (May 18, 2013)

I replaced mine with a Guhong V2 set. But to have the tensions loose I could not put the center caps on. Because the Dayan spring has more power the screw sticking out at good tensions.. So I placed the original back.. This cube goes on the shelve next to the other not so good cubes.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

guhong v2 is the same dayan set 
is for all the 55/57mm cubes 

Hmm.. weird I was able to put them on without issues..
Can you bring the cube to Eindhoven along with the dayan springs?


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## windhero (May 18, 2013)

Slightly off topic, where do you buy your dayan spring/screw/washer sets? From China/USA or does some european shop sell them? I kinda dont want to wait from a week to 6 weeks for shipping,


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

I bought mine at hknowstore, zcube has them too.


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## jayefbe (May 18, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> It is not CBC.
> 
> People make the hype, not him. He was just the first with a video out, and he liked it.


 It's not only CBC but he absolutely had a very large role in it. Before his review everyone's description of the ShuangRen was it's very good and is similar to a zhanchi. Which is totally accurate. CBC was the first to give the hyperbolic "better than Dayan!" review. All of his reviews of rare cubes or prototypes have this hyperbolic tone, which unfortunately, many people take at face value. The HuanYing, the ShuangRen, the PanShi, the OP zhanchi. His reviews of all of those cubes have been similar. He was also not the first to put out a review of the ShuangRen. All of the videos before his were very favorable, but didn't have the same exaggerated tone as CBC's. In retrospect, those other reviews seem to be much more accurate. If this was the only time it happened, then you could write it up to CBC really loving this particular cube. But it seems to happen with many prototypes he reviews.

For those in the USA looking for Dayan hardware, I would recommend the Cubicle. They have good prices and won't gouge you on shipping like many other shops.


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## MarcelP (May 18, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> guhong v2 is the same dayan set
> is for all the 55/57mm cubes
> 
> Hmm.. weird I was able to put them on without issues..
> Can you bring the cube to Eindhoven along with the dayan springs?



I can get the screws in just fine. Only thing is that it will be way to tight for me. Turn a face takes way too much effort. But yeah, I will bring it a long. Btw, the Guhong with the Fangshi springs was performing amazing..  Now back with the Dayan springs, still amazing.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 18, 2013)

Interesting.. I wonder.. since you know I have loose cubes.. I really wonder about your fangshi now, yep.


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## Patrick M (May 18, 2013)

mine doesn't seem to corner cut as well as my lubix zhanchi, and is like half as good at reverse corner cutting. I like the logo, though...and it's soft......but I don't think I'm impressed as I thought I'd be. Still a good cube. I think I like it for OH and BLD.


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## Lchu613 (May 18, 2013)

It could be that they have hugely varying spring rates, which means bad company...
Alternatively adding more washers instead of spring switching maybe?
IDK and now I'm apprehensive about mine


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## YddEd (May 19, 2013)

jayefbe said:


> It's not only CBC but he absolutely had a very large role in it. Before his review everyone's description of the ShuangRen was it's very good and is similar to a zhanchi. Which is totally accurate. CBC was the first to give the hyperbolic "better than Dayan!" review. All of his reviews of rare cubes or prototypes have this hyperbolic tone, which unfortunately, many people take at face value. The HuanYing, the ShuangRen, the PanShi, the OP zhanchi. His reviews of all of those cubes have been similar. He was also not the first to put out a review of the ShuangRen. All of the videos before his were very favorable, but didn't have the same exaggerated tone as CBC's. In retrospect, those other reviews seem to be much more accurate. If this was the only time it happened, then you could write it up to CBC really loving this particular cube. But it seems to happen with many prototypes he reviews.
> 
> For those in the USA looking for Dayan hardware, I would recommend the Cubicle. They have good prices and won't gouge you on shipping like many other shops.



I wonder why everyone listens to CBC straight away anyway.






Kattenvriendin said:


> I changed the core as well, but I have NO clue what influence that might have, if any. The size is the same after all, just different shape.
> 
> Video is up:
> 
> ...



You can file the center piece until it kinda makes a notch though.


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## Veerexx (May 19, 2013)

Kattenvriendin said:


> Interesting.. I wonder.. since you know I have loose cubes.. I really wonder about your fangshi now, yep.



Hmm, after watching your review, I am starting to think that it is just your cube. I have bought 4 of them (2 DIY, 2 non-DIY) and the cube is beautiful. I have something like 6 Zanchis and a Guhong and the ShuangRen definitely feels like a major step up. Although it can't seem to CC as much (which IMO isn't the biggest deal) I still think it overall feels much nicer. Each to their own opinion  You would like cubes looser than me, so that might change how we view the Fangshi


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## Masimosir (May 19, 2013)

Got a diy and a non-diy .. got to say im quite disappointed by the quality of the cubes , have to spend time sanding down those irritating plastic that should not be there . but after getting rid of those plastic the cube feels better and nicer than my main thou


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## Lchu613 (May 19, 2013)

Your videos are awesome lol


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## Kattenvriendin (May 19, 2013)

Interesting to see that some love their cube and some don't. It is a matter of taste I guess. Like the zhanchi vs Guhong thing. I just bought a guhong that is really nice where I have had guhongs that were meh. *shrug*


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## Patrick M (May 19, 2013)

Update: With loosening the cube alot, I really like the way it turns, the smoothness of it all. I got my first BLD solve on it. So some value to it, also lol. But unfortunately it just will not replace my main. Also I kind of don't like the sound when it turns, it almost sounds like plastic scratching plastic D:


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## Kattenvriendin (May 19, 2013)

yeah.. I like it too.. I wouldn't mind if all my cubes make that sound lol we're weird I guess


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## applemobile (May 19, 2013)

Leave it loose and don't lube it at all. Best. Cewb. Evar.


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## littlewing1208 (May 19, 2013)

@Kattenvriendin,

I just watched your first video. I'm very surprised with the lack of corner cutting. Mine is pretty tight (see the convo I had with JodoYodo in the other thread) and I can cut 55 degrees.....it's absolutely nuts how well the corner cutting is on mine. My 2 best Zhanchis might cut 46-48 degrees. I have a black Shuang Ren but I have a white coming next week from the cubicle. Are other people having lack of corner cutting issues?


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## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

littlewing1208 said:


> Are other people having lack of corner cutting issues?



No, mine corner cuts 45 degrees easily without any force both ways..

I do not know what to think of the cube any more.

Plus:
-My Averages are great.
-No lock ups
-Great corner cutting

Down:
-My nails get under the edge caps
-Corner twists every 5 solves or so
-That damn sound
-It feels slow although the times show otherwise.

Maybe it is just getting used to the cube. But I feel after doing a few solves on the ShuangRen, every other Dayan feels awesome.


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## Endgame (May 19, 2013)

jayefbe said:


> I love that the "Dayan has lost its throne" idea is already being thrown out the window after the ShuangRen has been out for a few days. People need to realize that hype exists to sell cubes, and CBC has a habit of exaggerating when it comes to new and rare cubes that only he has. Hopefully there's a lesson in this, and people will learn not to buy into the hype and to make judgements for themselves before making strong declarations like "the ShuangRen will replace the zhanchi".



the majority of the CBC audience is prepubescent anyway, so history will repeat itself in the very near future


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## Kattenvriendin (May 19, 2013)

*chuckles* the ones that hang on his every word yeah

I like his vids because they are clear and I can see very well what pieces and such look like, sounds a cube makes, and performance. 

Hmm to think of it.. pretty much all the channels I am subscribed to have that.. 

In any case.. I like to SEE what I am buying. An opinion on things I will form on my own.

I can at least be fairly certain that corner cutting on the moyu won't be an issue lol. It is not the main thing that I judge my cube by, but it is measurable, and the Fangshi before the spring swap was blegh. Now it is ok. Measures up with the SS wind and such. Definitely not with a Guhong or Zhanchi. But that is MY opinion. YMMV


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## windhero (May 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> No, mine corner cuts 45 degrees easily without any force both ways..
> 
> I do not know what to think of the cube any more.
> 
> ...



Averages getting better is a sign of a better cube. When I swapped to Dayan Guhong V2 from random C4U cubes my averages got better. Later on when I got used to the cube my personal best dropped loads and the averages kept on falling. 

What's your standard deviation of solves with the Shuang Ren and with your Dayan? (If you dont know try doing like 20 solves on qqtimer.net with both cubes and paste the σ value here)

That data would explain a lot. A low standard deviation basically means a good flow and steady solves, thats what helps to lower the averages as well. High standard deviation usually means lock ups (or pops but that doesnt happen with cubes that have a torpedo mechanism). Corner cutting and stuff like that is not worth looking for imo, as long as the corner cuts over 40 degrees or so.


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## antoineccantin (May 19, 2013)

I tried one at a comp yesterday, and have to say, I really like it!


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## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

antoineccantin said:


> I tried one at a comp yesterday, and have to say, I really like it!



What times did you get?



windhero said:


> What's your standard deviation of solves with the Shuang Ren and with your Dayan? (If you dont know try doing like 20 solves on qqtimer.net with both cubes and paste the σ value here)



I will try that and let you know.


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## CarlBrannen (May 19, 2013)

Tightness or looseness of the cube is a matter of the spring tension when the cube is in its resting position.

Corner cutting is about how much room the cube has to compress the spring.

These are not incompatible things, you don't have to give up one in order to get the other. I do these sorts of modifications on my big cubes all the time.

If the cube is too loose when you've got the screws out far enough to allow good corner cutting, then instead of tightening the screws, y'all need to replace the springs with new springs with a higher spring constant.

A thing I might try is to stretch a spring. That will increase the precompression on the spring without reducing the amount of travel available in it.

Also, when a cube's center pieces don't have a notch to allow easy removal of the center caps I file a notch. And when they only have one or two notches, I file new notches on the other sides. I don't like having to hunt around to get the caps off.


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## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

Ok, I did two Ao25's. One with my current main (a Zhanhci Milky) and the other with my white Fangshi:

I was very surprised to see that I had better times with the Fangshi! I started with the Fangshi without warm-up so that should have been in favor of the Zhanchi. Still did the Fangshi win. This does actually make me feel better about the cube. Today I have washed out all lube and did only apply lube to core, It runs so much better now. Lube makes my Fangshi slow. And it is getting broken in. The sound is getting better (more quiet).



Spoiler



Fangshi

Mean: 26.65
Average: 26.52
Best time: 22.03
Median: 25.97
Worst time: 34.32
Standard deviation: 2.95

Best average of 5: 24.13
9-13 - 23.46 (22.09) 23.67 25.25 (27.34)

Best average of 12: 25.79
8-19 - 27.89 23.46 (22.09) 23.67 25.25 27.34 29.01 25.86 24.51 25.19 (34.32) 25.76

1. 29.56 D F2 L2 F2 D U2 F2 U R2 U' B' D R L2 D U F2 L2 D' B
2. 24.17 D2 L2 D2 L2 B2 U' B2 R2 D B2 F2 R B R2 L' D2 R' F' D2 B2 U2
3. 26.26 U R2 U' B2 D F2 D2 L2 U F2 D2 L D F' L U' B U' B2 R2 F2 U
4. 29.15 F2 U B2 D F2 D' R2 F2 R2 D' F2 R' D B' L' B F' L U' B' F2 L2
5. 26.99 R2 U F2 D2 R2 D' B2 F2 D' R2 D' L D2 L D F R' L F' R' B'
6. 30.88 B2 D' R2 D' F2 D2 R2 U' F2 L2 U L U' B2 F' R2 U2 B' R' L' B U
7. 27.03 D2 R2 L2 U R2 U2 L2 F2 U2 F2 U2 B' F' U' B L' U L2 D B' R'
8. 27.89 F2 R2 F2 D2 F2 D R2 U2 B2 L2 F2 L' F2 D' U B' D' F2 L2 D F
9. 23.46 R2 B2 U F2 D' B2 R2 D R2 F2 D2 R U2 F' D' B2 F' L' D F2 R2 U'
10. 22.09 L2 U2 R2 U' B2 D2 B2 U B2 U' B L' D R2 F D2 B' R' D' U2
11. 23.67 U' L2 D' B2 D L2 F2 D' B2 D U' L' U' F' D U' L B2 F D' B
12. 25.25 R2 B2 L2 D' R2 D F2 U2 F2 R2 D' R F2 D F L' B' D2 B L' F2
13. 27.34 D' F2 D L2 D' F2 D' B2 F2 U B' D' U' R' F' R2 U B D2 L
14. 29.01 L2 U' R2 U2 F2 U' B2 R2 U' F2 R2 F R' F2 L2 B2 D2 U' F2 L' B U
15. 25.86 D2 B2 D U2 B2 F2 L2 D' F2 U R' B' D R D F' U B' D U2 L
16. 24.51 B2 R2 D B2 D' L2 D2 L2 U F2 D' L B' D L B L B2 F' U' B U'
17. 25.19 D' B2 R2 U' R2 D' U2 R2 B2 D' F2 R' L U' B' R2 B' D B' U R2 U2
18. 34.32 L2 U' R2 B2 D' L2 U' B2 R2 L2 U' F R' U' R2 D2 L B2 L D
19. 25.76 D2 F2 R2 F2 R2 U' L2 U B2 R2 U F' R' D' R2 L' D L B' U' F
20. 32.40 U' F2 U F2 L2 F2 D' U2 B2 D F' L D2 U' F2 R' U' R' F' D2 L
21. 22.03 U2 R2 U R2 U2 F2 D R2 L2 D' F' D L2 D F2 L2 D' L F R D2
22. 27.70 B2 D L2 D' R2 B2 L2 U' R2 D2 R L U2 B D' L2 F D R2 L
23. 24.43 F2 R2 B2 F2 D' R2 L2 D2 L2 D2 F' D2 R L2 D B' F D U B' L' D
24. 25.35 L2 F2 U L2 F2 D B2 L2 D' R2 D2 B' U2 R' B2 F D2 U2 R D' U2
25. 25.97 U' L2 D L2 F2 L2 F2 U' F2 U2 B2 L U' R' F L D' B' L' U'


Zhanchi

Mean: 27.05
Average: 27.12
Best time: 19.59
Median: 26.77
Worst time: 32.75
Standard deviation: 3.10

Best average of 5: 25.31
15-19 - 24.88 25.27 (32.65) 25.77 (19.59)

Best average of 12: 26.44
5-16 - 28.57 (24.02) 25.59 28.10 25.84 (32.06) 27.01 25.47 27.02 26.63 24.88 25.27

1. 25.54 D F2 L2 U L2 U' B2 D B2 F2 U F L D L2 F2 U B D2 R2 D' R'
2. 26.98 L2 U' L2 F2 D L2 D2 F2 L2 D' R B' L2 F' L U' R F2 R' L2 U'
3. 23.56 U' L2 U' F2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 U B D B' R F2 U B2 F L B' U'
4. 32.75 D L2 B2 L2 U' B2 D R2 L2 B2 D2 F L2 U F' R B2 L F2 U' F2 U2
5. 28.57 F2 U R2 F2 U2 F2 U' B2 D B2 U L F' L' D2 F D' B2 R' L D'
6. 24.02 D2 L2 F2 L2 D' B2 D' F2 U2 R2 D B' R' F2 L B2 U2 B' R2 L' D2 U'
7. 25.59 D2 B2 U F2 D B2 L2 B2 L2 D' F2 R F' U R F2 R U' F U2 L U'
8. 28.10 D B2 D' F2 D L2 D2 B2 L2 B2 D R F2 D2 F R' D U' F U2 L' U2
9. 25.84 B2 L2 D L2 F2 U' R2 D2 B2 U2 F2 L' F2 R' F' U' B' L' D2 R L2
10. 32.06 L2 U' B2 R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 U L2 U' R' D2 U2 B2 U F' R' L' F L' U'
11. 27.01 B2 D B2 U F2 D F2 R2 U2 B2 F2 R B' R L' B2 F' U' R' D' B' D'
12. 25.47 D' F2 U F2 U' L2 D2 B2 U' L2 F2 R U' F' R' U L' B' D U F R'
13. 27.02 U2 B2 R2 U L2 F2 D B2 U2 L2 B' U' R F L U' R U B L' U2
14. 26.63 U' R2 F2 D' L2 U' L2 D' F2 U L' U2 R2 D L B F' R2 D' L' U2
15. 24.88 U2 B2 L2 F2 L2 U' R2 L2 B2 R2 L2 B' L' U F' R2 L' U' B D2 B2
16. 25.27 D B2 L2 U' B2 L2 F2 R2 U2 B2 D' L U' R L2 B2 D' U2 B L' F'
17. 32.65 D' F2 D' B2 F2 U' B2 R2 U' B2 L2 F L B' R2 D' R L D B2 L'
18. 25.77 L2 F2 U2 B2 U B2 F2 R2 D2 R2 U2 B' R2 L U2 R F2 U B' L2 F2 U'
19. 19.59 D F2 R2 U' F2 U' F2 D2 B2 F2 R2 F' R' L2 F' L' D2 R' B2 L2
20. 31.07 D R2 U2 F2 L2 F2 U' L2 U B2 U' R' B D' U2 B D U2 F' D R'
21. 26.77 D' L2 B2 D' F2 R2 F2 U' B2 D2 F R U2 B' D2 F2 L2 D F U2
22. 31.09 R2 D L2 F2 L2 U2 B2 L2 D2 F2 D F U2 L F D' R D2 L2 U' F R'
23. 28.10 R2 U' L2 B2 U B2 L2 U2 B2 F2 U' B' F D R' F' D U' F R' D2 U2
24. 28.83 F2 U F2 D F2 D2 R2 D F2 R2 B L U2 R U' R D2 L2 B2 D B' U'
25. 23.00 L2 U L2 D2 R2 D B2 F2 D' R2 D B R U B' L' D' U2 R2 L' U


ps, the solve 19 on the Zhanchi is sweet.. A few move X cross on red


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## stensgaard (May 19, 2013)

The more I use it, the more I like it


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## windhero (May 19, 2013)

So far based on the data I've read it seems that the fangshi is favoured especially by people that solve atleast sub 20. Most of the fans of the Fangshi are sub 15. People above that prefer the Dayan. This is speculating since I have yet to even try the cube, but is it possible that the Fangshi is actually too fast for some people? Combined with how lightweight it is I can see how it could be hard to control. What divides people that are sub 20 and above it imo is the cube control. The flow during the solve doesnt just magically happen; It requires fast color recognition, fast fingers and more than anything accurate and fast planning during the solve mixed with accurate performance.

I'm stuck at +20sec average and I blame my sloppy style of solving. Getting rid of this by practising slower F2L and better look ahead.

Another thing is that Fangshi doesnt really like lubix-type lubes such as differential oil (in the pieces). This is probably because of the form of the pieces. All the gaps just eat the lube and it doesnt disperse within the puzzle as fast as it would in a puzzle such as a Zhanchi. The result is obviously the lube cumulating within the puzzle inside those gaps. Diff oil is sticky, so I see how the gaps that were left there on purpose to minimize contact points are useless and even worse if filled with sticky lube. The dayan pieces are solid and have a lot of contact points, which is why lubix-type lubes work well. In a cube with a lot of air in it and no contact points the diff oil just stacks up and slows the thing up. My plan is to lube my core with lubix/diff oil and drop a bunch of maru lube in the pieces, see how that works out.


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## Kattenvriendin (May 19, 2013)

Windhero: I am not going along with the "faster people like the fangshi because it is too fast for some people". My issue was never too fast, my main is faster. It was too loose. WAY too loose. Changing the springs solved that issue and it is now at least NORMALLY tensionable.

As for the lube bit.. with you all the way there on that theory and took my cube apart and washed the cubies. Left the lube in the core of course but the cubies are clean and lubeless now.. wait and see after they dry a bit how things will fare.


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## Username (May 19, 2013)

I'm recieving mine tomorrow. Will write first impressions here, maybe film an avg5


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## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

Oh, and I fixed the outsticking edge thingy.. I took all egdes out and applied about 220 lbs (my weight  ) pressure on them. And some of them made a snapping noise and it closed a gap. So the cube looks equally squared right now. And it affects the solves aswell. It turns better..



Kattenvriendin said:


> Windhero: I am not going along with the "faster people like the fangshi because it is too fast for some people".



I think he has a great point. Indeed the super fast people seem to like it a lot.


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## antoineccantin (May 19, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> What times did you get?



I didn't do any timed solves.


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## windhero (May 19, 2013)

Your problem sound more like an actual shitty product, I've yet to see anyone else with the exact same problem. Was yours mass produced or was it from the earlier batch?


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## Username (May 19, 2013)

If I understand correctly, I should only lube the core, and nothing on the pieces? Also did I read that there are small yiny pieces of plastick sticking out everywhere that's catching?


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## windhero (May 19, 2013)

Username said:


> If I understand correctly, I should only lube the core, and nothing on the pieces? Also did I read that there are small yiny pieces of plastick sticking out everywhere that's catching?



The plastic flashing was a problem of cubes done with a bad mold pre-mass production. That problem should be dealt with. However, the cube has some gaps (holes) in it, which is their design. This is why lubix-type lubes that are sticky do not work so well.

I dont see why maru lube or shock oil wouldnt work with the pieces, I'm going to give it a shot. Just dont put differential oil or lubix on the pieces. This is fairly obvious once you get your hands on the cube and see how the pieces are built.


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## MarcelP (May 19, 2013)

windhero said:


> I dont see why maru lube or shock oil wouldnt work with the pieces, I'm going to give it a shot.



I have tried with just Maru on the pieces. It made mine slower.. I think I will try again in a few days. I like it the way is now and this way it gets worn/broken in faster.


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## Username (May 19, 2013)

windhero said:


> The plastic flashing was a problem of cubes done with a bad mold pre-mass production. That problem should be dealt with. However, the cube has some gaps (holes) in it, which is their design. This is why lubix-type lubes that are sticky do not work so well.
> 
> I dont see why maru lube or shock oil wouldnt work with the pieces, I'm going to give it a shot. Just dont put differential oil or lubix on the pieces. This is fairly obvious once you get your hands on the cube and see how the pieces are built.




Thanks! Please keep us informed about the maru lube.
Once I recieve it, I'll only lube the core.

Oh, I just noticed, You're Finnish too


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## Kattenvriendin (May 19, 2013)

I reassembled and tensioned anew, much looser was possible now equaling the tensions on my main, finally, but still.. nope.

I just don't like the feel of it. It still wants to do stuff that I don't want it to do, which isn't to do with speed, but with it being flimsy. 

My main cube feels sturdy where this one (again, at the same tensions) feels flimsy in my hands. Any tighter to get it more sturdy and it is too tight to my liking. Not a compromise I am willing to make.

I have to brush it down to personal preference.

It's likely going to boil down to the same thing we have between the zhanchi and the guhong.


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## windhero (May 19, 2013)

Username said:


> Thanks! Please keep us informed about the maru lube.
> Once I recieve it, I'll only lube the core.
> 
> Oh, I just noticed, You're Finnish too


Oh look at that 

My pack shipped from hknowstore 15th may, so it might take a while. I also just ordered Dayan hardware from the cubicle today and a white fangshi + a 100ml bottle of maru lube from fasttech.com that shipped 2 days ago.

I'm willing to guess that I'll have a "perfect" Shuang Ren in a week or two. Meaning a Shuang Ren with maybe a C4U core, Dayan springs, Half bright stickers and lubix in the core with maru on the pieces. See how that works out.

I'm gonna make a white one with half bright colours and do the same procedure with it once I get all the parts. I'm probably gonna even make a video even though it's not really my style.


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## Username (May 19, 2013)

I'm probably not going to switch any hardware. Ain't nobody got time fo' dat


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## Kattenvriendin (May 19, 2013)

Do share when it is finished, I'd love to see it!


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## Ross The Boss (May 19, 2013)

i dont have one. it sounds like shape ways material. does it feel like it.


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## windhero (May 19, 2013)

Definitely will, I'll make a comparison video to the white Fangshi I also ordered. One black one with changed hardware and maru/lubix, one with stock pieces and only lubix in the core.


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## windhero (May 20, 2013)

Right, so my black DIY Funs Puzzle just arrived today. 

First I assembled it with a C4U core, dayan springs and Fangshi washers/screws. Dayan screws cannot be used at all as they are too short. The cube was way too tight, because the dayan springs are shorter and tighter. Also the center caps pop off if the tensions are too loose.

Then I took everything apart and put in a C4U core, Fangshi washers/springs/screws. Lubed the core very well, put the puzzle together and stickered them with super bright stickers made for 55/57mm dayan cubes. I dropped a little maru lube in the crevices. Result: The cube is really fast. It needs really good control for it to be great. The cube is definitely better than my well broken in stickerless Guhong v2, but I'm not good enough for it yet. I've been playing a lot of Borderlands 2 which apparently makes me suck at cubing, since my AO100 was 20.51 2 weeks ago and now its over 23 with a guhong.

Still waiting on a big bunch of C4U and Dayan hardware, another shuangren and loads of stickers.


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## PeelingStickers (May 20, 2013)

Mine arrived today, but nobody was home to pick it up  gotta wait 48 hours at the post office :/

I will probably put it together fully dry first. I'll be sure to list how each factor affects my cube when I'm done (with/without dayan hardware/cores etc.)


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## Username (May 20, 2013)

Assembling mine right now


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## MarcelP (May 20, 2013)

I am changing my opinion on the Fangshi. I do Ao12's changing between Fangshi and any other Dayan that I have and every time I get better results with the Fangshi. Some how after using Fangshi I lock up using even the most broken in Zhanchi. The Fangshi has a complete own league in 'not locking up'. And it's getting more and more quiet. I think I will start using it as my main and use it on the next competition in two weeks.


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## Username (May 20, 2013)

My edge caps don't seem to gi all the way in, resulting the edges being larger than corners. Anyone else with this problem?


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## Kattenvriendin (May 20, 2013)

Sorry misread..

Nope that isn't an issue for me.


Is there any flash on the caps? Might want to remove that first.


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## MarcelP (May 20, 2013)

Username said:


> My edge caps don't seem to gi all the way in, resulting the edges being larger than corners. Anyone else with this problem?



Yes, I had the same problem. After putting a lot of pressure on the edge caps all space is disappeared.


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## windhero (May 20, 2013)

When my white fangshi arrives I'll be making an assembly video IF the cube has some flashing on it like my black DIY did. Most of the assembly videos do not show removing the flashing and how it might actually affect the puzzle. I'll show how the core works in more detail as well (core + center caps to be exact).

In my opinion you can only swap the core in the Funs puzzle. Anything else screws everything up. The puzzle is measured so that if the screws are longer or shorted the center caps either pop off or the puzzle gets too tight. Same with screws of different lengths. The Dayan core is the same spring, except it's more _compact_. It has basically just as many spirals as the ones on the fangshi, the difference is that the fangshi is longer because the gap between said spirals is longer making the whole spring looser and longer. Also the spring is made from a thinner metal which is the main reason why its looser. The washer on the fangshi are thinner and smaller as well. C4U core can be used if you want to be sure that the puzzle doesnt break in the long run as a consequence of the screws bending. All the rest should remain the same.

On mine the corner cutting is a bit more than 45 degrees, I'd guess 50-55 degrees. Reverse corner cut is half a cubie, easily. The corner either cuts very effortlessly or not at all. The puzzle doesnt lock up like the dayan, because the torpedo mechanism is different. In the dayans the sharp torpedo sometimes got stuck between pieces causing a lock up, in the fangshi the corner might just twist a turn. I've had the corner twist once and that was during a scramble when I'm more aggressive than during a solve.


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## Username (May 20, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Yes, I had the same problem. After putting a lot of pressure on the edge caps all space is disappeared.



1 piece at a time? or on the entire cube? 

how did you do it?


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## windhero (May 20, 2013)

I dont know about MarcelP, but I put a ton of pressure on all pieces one by one when assembling the pieces of the DIY kit. Enough to have my fingers hurt for 5 minutes after the assembly. I dont have that problem, the pieces stay together well (with the exception of the center pieces, cant take a cap of without separating the base from the middle part of the center piece. Bad design if you ask me)


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## Kattenvriendin (May 20, 2013)

I did the same as Windhero.. including the sore fingers.. yep. But you have to make sure to apply pressure all around the caps, just rotate the cubie around while you push until it is all nice and flush.


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## Username (May 20, 2013)

I squeezed the edges together. It's really good, but I'm not used to the feel yet. I need to do an avg100 with it. But that'll be tomorrow, after multiBLD (where this cube will be included)

I feel like I want to add some lube to the pieces. Any suggestions? (I have calvins high viscosity, 10k diff oil and maru)


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## windhero (May 20, 2013)

Username said:


> I squeezed the edges together. It's really good, but I'm not used to the feel yet. I need to do an avg100 with it. But that'll be tomorrow, after multiBLD (where this cube will be included)
> 
> I feel like I want to add some lube to the pieces. Any suggestions? (I have calvins high viscosity, 10k diff oil and maru)



Nothing that is sticky. From those 3 the only lube that is runny is the Maru lube, right? Sticky lube just cumulates in the holes on the side of the pieces and slow the cube down instead of speeding it up.


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## Username (May 20, 2013)

windhero said:


> Nothing that is sticky. From those 3 the only lube that is runny is the Maru lube, right? Sticky lube just cumulates in the holes on the side of the pieces and slow the cube down instead of speeding it up.



I'll try some maru now, thanks!

3 1/2 drops of maru lube and this cube is too fast for me. It does a U2 with one flick, and started to lock on me a bit.

E: It feels like it wouldn't beat my CPM-modded and well lubed zhanchi, but times say else. I don't know what to do


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## cyoubx (May 20, 2013)

It's a good cube but I don't like it very much. I've had to slow down most of my algorithms to avoid catches. Of course, that's because of how I turn the cube, but I've never had to purposely slow down my turning to accommodate a cube before. It's almost as if the cube is holding me back.


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## windhero (May 20, 2013)

cyoubx said:


> It's a good cube but I don't like it very much. I've had to slow down most of my algorithms to avoid catches. Of course, that's because of how I turn the cube, but I've never had to purposely slow down my turning to accommodate a cube before. It's almost as if the cube is holding me back.



Strange how that varies between cubers. I feel like this cube eats any algorithms I feed it at any speed. The only problem is that I'm not accurate or fast enough for this cube.


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## cyoubx (May 20, 2013)

windhero said:


> Strange how that varies between cubers. I feel like this cube eats any algorithms I feed it at any speed. The only problem is that I'm not accurate or fast enough for this cube.



Yeah. Some people faster than me have had no issues with algorithms either. I probably just have bad turning.


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## WhipeeDip (May 21, 2013)

It's a great cube with some problems. Got a DIY kit. No flashing except the parts which are inside the piece, so I didn't file those down. Threading the core was actually much harder than I thought. Not sure if it's just this core, because a DIY ZhanChi I assembled for a friend was super easy to thread. Might be getting a c4u core, I'll see. The screws are actually very tough to screw in and strip somewhat easily. This also makes center caps much harder to put on because the screws don't like to go in any further. Center caps are very hard to pull off once on. No lube, moves extremely fast. Great corner cutting and flow. Hands down better than my ZhanChi. If the core, screws, and center caps were better, this would be the best cube ever.


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## YddEd (May 21, 2013)

cyoubx said:


> It's a good cube but I don't like it very much. I've had to slow down most of my algorithms to avoid catches. Of course, that's because of how I turn the cube, but I've never had to purposely slow down my turning to accommodate a cube before. It's almost as if the cube is holding me back.


I wonder if I will slow down my algorithms 






MarcelP said:


> I am changing my opinion on the Fangshi. I do Ao12's changing between Fangshi and any other Dayan that I have and every time I get better results with the Fangshi. Some how after using Fangshi I lock up using even the most broken in Zhanchi. The Fangshi has a complete own league in 'not locking up'. And it's getting more and more quiet. I think I will start using it as my main and use it on the next competition in two weeks.


I'm pretty sure someone said that if you do 100 solves on the Fangshi the flash will go away. I'm not gonna switch mains until I do 200 when I get mine


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2013)

cyoubx said:


> but I've never had to purposely slow down my turning to accommodate a cube before. It's almost as if the cube is holding me back.



Do the averages on your Fangshi have true worse times compared to your other cubes?



Username said:


> ..3 1/2 drops of maru lube and this cube is too fast for me. It does a U2 with one flick..



That is strange. Mine will never ever overshoot. That is also why my algs work better. I am not an accurate turner. I will try a bit Maru tonight to see if I can speed the cube up a bit. Mine is now completely without lube on the pieces.



YddEd said:


> I'm pretty sure someone said that if you do 100 solves on the Fangshi the flash will go away.



I have done a timed Ao100 on the Fangsi yesterday. I had good times (sub 28). I have done over 500 solves on the Fangshi so far. It's getting better and better.


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## cyoubx (May 21, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> Do the averages on your Fangshi have true worse times compared to your other cubes?



I have done about 1,050 solves on the FangShi. My times are consistently slower than on my main. Low 11 on main vs 13 on FangShi. 2 seconds is fairly significant. 

It seems like my good times on the FS are extraordinary while my bad times are around 16 or 17 causing averages to be generally bad. 

Video review will be uploaded later.


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## MarcelP (May 21, 2013)

cyoubx said:


> Video review will be uploaded later.



I am looking forward to that!


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## Gordon (May 21, 2013)

I've had the cube now for a few days and I think I like it. But I'm still not sure if I like it more than other cubes.
I think it turns very well and feels good, but if I then switch to a Zhanchi for example, I like the feel of the Zhanchi better.

I've now used mainly the ShuangRen in the past days and just broke my avg of 5 PB with it (27.915 [27.935, 28.372, 27.440, (29.101), (27.388)]) so I think I'm kind of used to it now.


I think that most of us are slightly dissapointet because of the high expectations. However, I don't think that there will ever be a cube which magically drops our times by seconds.


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## pipkiksass (May 21, 2013)

The zhanchi magically dropped my times by a couple of seconds! ;-)


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## Kattenvriendin (May 21, 2013)

Over the year that I have been cubing I have tried a LOT of brands and I keep coming back to the Zhanchi. Just recently I got a guhong v2 that is very nice, but other than that there isn't really a cube that comes close to my main. am NOT talking time wise, I am talking feel wise. You get used to a certain feel and it kind of like a nice pair of shoes that you have had for a while. They're comfy hehe.

Good thing shoes wear faster than cubes do!


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## Username (May 21, 2013)

I'm a little bit disappointed of this cube. I tried my zhanchi after a few averages with the Fanghsi, and I have to say it's way better. 10k diff oil made the Fangshi better for my liking, but still not even close to the zhanchi. Should I just break it in more?


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## Kattenvriendin (May 21, 2013)

What you SHOULD do is find out for yourself what you like best. I have given it a shot, and nope.. sticking to my zhanchi as my main and cubing along with that. It is fun to have in the collection though


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## Username (May 21, 2013)

I think I'll stick to my zhanchi, too. I'll probably break this in a ton this week, and then do my final judgement of it.


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## somerandomkidmike (May 21, 2013)

Overall, can you guys recommend this cube? I'm in the market for a new 3x3, and I really don't like the feel of the ZhanChi. Is the feel significantly different enough from the ZhanChi that I might like it?


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## Username (May 21, 2013)

Its really different from the zhanchi (for me atleast)

I'm starting to like this more now, I added more lube


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## cyoubx (May 21, 2013)

somerandomkidmike said:


> Overall, can you guys recommend this cube? I'm in the market for a new 3x3, and I really don't like the feel of the ZhanChi. Is the feel significantly different enough from the ZhanChi that I might like it?



I recommend it. The feel is significantly different.


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## pipkiksass (May 21, 2013)

Funny, I've held off from getting a fangshi to wait for feedback, rather than buying in to the hype, but in many ways it's made no difference whatsoever!

I started (speed)cubing with a guhong 2, which was great, but my PLLs were slow. I got a white zhanchi, which makes my PLLs faster, but f2l slower (not a fan of white-on-white). That said, my fastest times with both are similar.

Couldn't decide of I should get a black zhanchi or a fangshi... 

I'm now, after patiently reading all your comments, waiting on an order of a black zhanchi AND black fangshi!

At the end of the day, as has been said a million times in this thread and elsewhere, it's all down to personal preference. I intend to do averages of 100 with both my new cubes, and see if there's any difference to my current main (modded white zhanchi). I don't imagine there will be any massive difference, but who knows?!

IMHO peoples cubing styles differ so greatly that no one cube will ever satisfy everyone. With different lube, hardware, and tensions, the same cube could be made completely different. 

Comparing a zhanchi that you've done 10k solves on with an out-of-the-box cube will never give a fair comparison, the only way we'll see if the fangshi lives up to the hype, in the long run, is by seeing how many people are still using one in 6 months or a year.

I think it would be interesting to do a poll, maybe later in the year, to see how many converts there are, and how many people have stuck with the zhanchi.


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## Username (May 21, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Comparing a zhanchi that you've done 10k solves on with an out-of-the-box cube will never give a fair comparison, the only way we'll see if the fangshi lives up to the hype, in the long run, is by seeing how many people are still using one in 6 months or a year.
> 
> I think it would be interesting to do a poll, maybe later in the year, to see how many converts there are, and how many people have stuck with the zhanchi.



I couldn't agree more than what I do. 

Maybe the poll should contain the MoYu aswell?


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## Kattenvriendin (May 21, 2013)

pipkiksass said:


> Comparing a zhanchi that you've done 10k solves on with an out-of-the-box cube will never give a fair comparison


There is always the exception: the milky zhanchi felt JUST like my main, if not better, out of the box. It DOES happen, but it is rare. Both ARE zhanchis though, but still.. the main has been used for a year now, and the milky was new. I have had many zhanchis in the mean time, none are like it, and only the purple I purchased recently came close.

MarcelP had a similar experience with his milky.


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## stensgaard (May 21, 2013)

Has anyone tried Maru Lube on this yet??
I added a few drops last night, and had to remove it again, since it made the cube a lot slower ...


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## Username (May 21, 2013)

stensgaard said:


> Has anyone tried Maru Lube on this yet??
> I added a few drops last night, and had to remove it again, since it made the cube a lot slower ...



I did, it made it too fast for me


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## stensgaard (May 21, 2013)

how long did you keep the maru in?
mine was fast at first, but only for like 5-10 min .. and after an hour it was slower than before I put in the maru!?

wet maru = fast since it's easy to push out of the way!
dry maru = slow because it's filling in the small bumps, and making the surface area bigger!

could anyone else please try some different types of lube and let us know what happens!


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## Username (May 21, 2013)

7 solves


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## Lchu613 (May 26, 2013)

My center caps aren't going in no matter how hard I push, even if I take my disassembled one and try to push the center and center cap together, nothing happens
Any help?


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## AndersB (May 26, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> My center caps aren't going in no matter how hard I push, even if I take my disassembled one and try to push the center and center cap together, nothing happens
> Any help?


Don't be afraid of pushing harder, you won't break it.


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## Lchu613 (May 26, 2013)

I fixed it, there was a lot of excess plastic that made the holes too small for the caps


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## SlapShot (May 27, 2013)

according to the post office tracker, I should have mine tomorrow. then I can make a judgement call.


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## Username (May 27, 2013)

SlapShot said:


> according to the post office tracker, I should have mine tomorrow. then I can make a judgement call.



Dont base your final opinion on your first few solves. Do a few hundred and see if you like it after that. For me the feel changed completely after 500+ solves


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## Lchu613 (May 27, 2013)

I haven't really broken it in much yet, but I added a tiny bit of the Calvin's Lube they sent with it and it helped a lot
Before there was so much static friction that I couldn't stand it, so I added some lube and BOOM


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## PianoCube (May 27, 2013)

I have not used mine enough to have a proper opinion about it. The only thing I'm sure of is that I hate the red and orange stickers it comes with.


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## khoavo12 (May 31, 2013)

I just got mine today from Fasttech (Assembled) and I must admit it is better than my Dayan Cubes.


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## YddEd (May 31, 2013)

khoavo12 said:


> I just got mine today from Fasttech (Assembled) and I must admit it is better than my Dayan Cubes.


I wanna ask.. how long did it take to get to you?


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## Timeeee (May 31, 2013)

I received mine a week ago and I'm in love with it now. Lubed the core and added a LITTLE BIT to the pieces (50k dif oil). The feeling to my other cube(s) (esp zhanchi) is completely different, but I like it more.
For everyone asking: just play with it. You will hate or love it


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## kalyk (May 31, 2013)

I also got mine from FastTech (assembled). It took 10 days total, including 2 week-ends. Very fast!


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## Maccoboy (May 31, 2013)

i wouldn't say it's better or worse than my main, it has it's flaws the same as my zhanchi, i can see it probably being my backup main but too loud to be my main unfortunately.


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## YddEd (May 31, 2013)

Maccoboy said:


> i wouldn't say it's better or worse than my main, it has it's flaws the same as my zhanchi, i can see it probably being my backup main but too loud to be my main unfortunately.


Whats the problem with loudness? :/


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## mark49152 (May 31, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Whats the problem with loudness? :/


It's annoying. Although I've noticed that smooth continuous cubing on it sends the baby to sleep. It must sound like blood flow in the womb, lol...


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## YddEd (May 31, 2013)

mark49152 said:


> It's annoying. Although I've noticed that smooth continuous cubing on it sends the baby to sleep. It must sound like blood flow in the womb, lol...


I don't know why, but I never care about the loudness/quietness of a cube. Maybe when I get my MoYu I'll think it's a bit too loud, get used to it and think 'Hey, why is my Zhanchi so quiet? I don't like it!'


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## mark49152 (May 31, 2013)

YddEd said:


> I don't know why, but I never care about the loudness/quietness of a cube.


Nor would I if there were no one else around to be disturbed by it...


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## MarcelP (May 31, 2013)

YddEd said:


> I don't know why, but I never care about the loudness/quietness of a cube. Maybe when I get my MoYu I'll think it's a bit too loud, get used to it and think 'Hey, why is my Zhanchi so quiet? I don't like it!'



I just recieved my MoYu.. and it's *LOUD*.. LOL


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## Kattenvriendin (May 31, 2013)

MOVIE!!! 


And bring to comp. You can leave the shuangren at home, bring this.


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## CuberCritic (May 31, 2013)

I thoroughly enjoy the ShuangRen. This cube has a lot of potential. I also like how quiet it is. There are a few flaws, but no popping and I greatly appreciate that. I look forward to what FangShi has to bring to the table.


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## ben1996123 (May 31, 2013)

the edge caps keep coming off
when I take the centre caps off, the top part of the centre comes off too and its annoying to push back on all the time
it pops
it feels really unstable

new mane cube


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## windhero (May 31, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> the edge caps keep coming off
> when I take the centre caps off, the top part of the centre comes off too and its annoying to push back on all the time
> it pops
> it feels really unstable
> ...



Just a thought; How long are your finger nails? You could try to diassemble the whole cube and press the pieces together really hard. There shouldnt be any gaps between the edge pieces and caps. I've never had an edge cap pop.


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## ben1996123 (May 31, 2013)

windhero said:


> Just a thought; How long are your finger nails? You could try to diassemble the whole cube and press the pieces together really hard. There shouldnt be any gaps between the edge pieces and caps. I've never had an edge cap pop.



well atchily i realised it was only one of them, it goes on all the way so theres no gap but its really loose and falls out. i'll just glue it on or something


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## sk8erman41 (May 31, 2013)

I wish there was another option on the poll question on this thread. I like ShuangRen and feel that it does get better over time. It is not my main, but my main is not "way better" either. I purchased mine from iCubeMart and it was pre-assembled and I feel that it is really smooth and like the feel. It does corner twist occasionally and if I switch from other cubes it takes a few solves to get used to the feel again and starts off kind of sloppy, but as I adjust it gets better and better. I suppose you could put this in the "not sure yet" vote category, but I'm not sure my opinion will change from this point now that I have played with it a decent amount. I could easily see this cube being ones main and I can also see why others don't like it. Its all a matter of personal prefrence, and for me it lies somewhere in the middle.


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## Lchu613 (May 31, 2013)

I don't know why those three-piece centers seemed like a good idea to the engineers...

Other than that no problems really.


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## windhero (May 31, 2013)

Lchu613 said:


> I don't know why those three-piece centers seemed like a good idea to the engineers...
> 
> Other than that no problems really.



My guess is that the structure allows the centers to wiggle and thus "forgive" some of the sloppy moves. I've never had mine go apart during a solve. It's a pain in the ass to re-tension though since the caps are so damn tight and the center pieces fall apart.


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## Cheese11 (Jun 1, 2013)

ben1996123 said:


> the edge caps keep coming off
> when I take the centre caps off, the top part of the centre comes off too and its annoying to push back on all the time
> it pops
> it feels really unstable
> ...



Heh, "Mane"...

On a serious note. Do you know if other people have the same problem?


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## Username (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm considering making it my main right now.

I like how people have really mixed opinions about this cube


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## uvafan (Jun 1, 2013)

Good, but IMO not as good as the MoYu or the Zhanchi.


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## Ross The Boss (Jun 1, 2013)

i dont like the options in the poll. i want to say that it is better (faster, and better corner cutting) than my main but i like the feeling of my main more. also, i only think that it is only a little bit better than my main and there is no option for that.


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## uniacto (Jun 1, 2013)

If I had better stickers for it, it would become my main instantly. All it needs is a bit of breaking in. 


oh. 700th post.


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## cannon4747 (Jun 2, 2013)

I saw the results were at 25% better; 25% worse%; and 50% idk and thought that only like 4 ppl had voted. lol there were 80...


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## WhipeeDip (Jun 2, 2013)

After using it for quite a bit now, I do prefer my Zhanchi. However, the Fangshi never pops on me, so I'm kinda split. Popping on the Zhanchi is pretty annoying. :/


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## mati1242 (Jun 2, 2013)

After breaking in this cube with 1000 +solves I love it soo much. 
There are no scratchy feel -only smoothness because plastic has worn out in some spots and it's completely smooth and faster than before. 
I think I must tighten it even more because it's kinda uncontrollable sometimes.


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## Lagom (Jun 3, 2013)

The cube gets a lot better after breaking in, cause of the surface...

I put some speaker damping foam in the pieces to make it a bit heavier, and it also got a little bit quieter. Really nice actually.
I also swapped the core for a c4u cause of the vobbling. I did realise the standard core was fine, it was the screws that werent straight. So I installed som Dayan screws and the cube got a bit better

Its a really nice cube, and super quiet!

If Funs Puzzle reads this: My washers were really crappy. Metal sticking out and the core wasnt smooth at all. You should think about some new screws and washers for the next cube!


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## yockee (Jun 3, 2013)

MarcelP said:


> I am really interested in your thoughts on the puzzle.
> 
> I have had the puzzle only for 24 hours. I have done about 200 solves on it. I am not very impressed with the cube. I do get same averages as with my (Zhanchi) main cube. But it just does not feel as smooth and fast as my main. I tried different tensions, different lube. I wonder if I am the only guy at the moment that does not really appreciate his ShuangRen. I think it has too many contact points that makes it rather slow.



I have found that this cube is much faster without lube. I am only having problems finding the right tensions.


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## MarcelP (Jun 3, 2013)

yockee said:


> I have found that this cube is much faster without lube. I am only having problems finding the right tensions.


Yes, I have experienced that too. I have two Fangshi's. But still, both without lube, at the same tensions, one is incredibly fast (used it at competition yesterday) and one is awefully slow. I mean injury-causing slow. I think there are still some design errors or something. If they continue to develop this cube it might be the most awesome cube there is.


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## Lchu613 (Jun 3, 2013)

I got one that was fast, but hard to start turning ie "sticky"
I sprayed some CRC in and it mostly fixed it, and helped break it in some.


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## redbeat0222 (Jun 4, 2013)

I think that The ShuangRen and The huanying are just knock offs. I think that DaYan should be the cubing talk around here. Sure, they don't have any updating cubes out right now but they are still the best in my opinion.


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## Lagom (Jun 4, 2013)

redbeat0222 said:


> I think that The ShuangRen and The huanying are just knock offs. I think that DaYan should be the cubing talk around here. Sure, they don't have any updating cubes out right now but they are still the best in my opinion.



My thought is that Dayan hopefully realises that they need to produce a killer cube in order to stay on top. The Fangshi and HY are great cubes, but i prefer the Dayan feel...


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## YddEd (Jun 14, 2013)

redbeat0222 said:


> I think that The ShuangRen and The huanying are just knock offs. I think that DaYan should be the cubing talk around here. Sure, they don't have any updating cubes out right now but they are still the best in my opinion.


How are the Fangshi ShuangRen and MoYu Huanying KO's? They look different to other cubes.


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## Lchu613 (Jun 14, 2013)

Yup, the mechs are completely different from Dayan's.
The HY I would say doesn't have much of a NEW mech, but they had the idea with hollowing the corners, but not too much as on the Witlong
The Fangshi is just a new mech.


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## TanookiTrev (Jun 15, 2013)

This is kind of off topic but does anyone else get an Alpha V feel from the ShuangRen when it's broken in? I don't still have my aV so I'm relying on memory but damn it feels familiar (in a definite good way). Anyway I'm probably just delusional


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## ottozing (Jun 15, 2013)

My thoughts: It's ****


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## TanookiTrev (Jun 15, 2013)

ottozing said:


> My thoughts: It's ****


What don't you like about it?


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## YddEd (Jun 15, 2013)

It's my main


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## ottozing (Jun 15, 2013)

TanookiTrev said:


> What don't you like about it?



Turning is grindy
Unforgiving when it comes to reverse corner cutting
Doesn't respond well to any form of lube
Locky because of the 2nd reason why I don't like it

The only thing I like about it is the normal corner cutting. Does past 45 with ease without jamming at all.


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## TanookiTrev (Jun 15, 2013)

ottozing said:


> Turning is grindy
> Unforgiving when it comes to reverse corner cutting
> Doesn't respond well to any form of lube
> Locky because of the 2nd reason why I don't like it
> ...


Mmm, how many solves have you done? I lubed mine with traxxas (lots of it) and after only about 200-250 solves it become way more smooth. I'm a pretty accurate turner so reverse corner cutting isn't really an issue for me but I'm also much slower than you. I definitely see how you drew that conclusion though.


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## YddEd (Jun 15, 2013)

TanookiTrev said:


> Mmm, how many solves have you done? I lubed mine with traxxas (lots of it) and after only about 200-250 solves it become way more smooth. I'm a pretty accurate turner so reverse corner cutting isn't really an issue for me but I'm also much slower than you. I definitely see how you drew that conclusion though.


You really shouldn't lube it with anything at all unless it's the core.


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## ottozing (Jun 15, 2013)

I don't know how many solves I've done on it. It still feels grindy though and I don't think it's because I haven't broken it in enough.


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## YddEd (Jun 15, 2013)

ottozing said:


> I don't know how many solves I've done on it. It still feels grindy though and I don't think it's because I haven't broken it in enough.


You could also do this.


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## TanookiTrev (Jun 15, 2013)

YddEd said:


> You really shouldn't lube it with anything at all unless it's the core.



Why not? :O


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## uniacto (Jun 15, 2013)

TanookiTrev said:


> Why not? :O



it makes the cube quite gummy and sticky.


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## YddEd (Jun 15, 2013)

TanookiTrev said:


> Why not? :O


Because there really is no place for the lube to go. There are like holes everywhere on the pieces.


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## TanookiTrev (Jun 15, 2013)

uniacto said:


> it makes the cube quite gummy and sticky.


Yes it does immediately after applying it but it works itself in in a really short time.



YddEd said:


> Because there really is no place for the lube to go. There are like holes everywhere on the pieces.


I haven't had any issues yet. Plus, I clean my cubes about once a month anyway so hopefully no issues arise  Fingers crossed.


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## YddEd (Jun 15, 2013)

TanookiTrev said:


> Yes it does immediately after applying it but it works itself in in a really short time.
> I haven't had any issues yet. Plus, I clean my cubes about once a month anyway so hopefully no issues arise  Fingers crossed.


I actually find my Fangshi better without any lube


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## TanookiTrev (Jun 15, 2013)

YddEd said:


> I actually find my Fangshi better without any lube


I absolutely hated it un-lubed, now I think it's possibly my main. I guess it's all personal preference xD


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## Username (Jun 15, 2013)

ottozing said:


> I don't know how many solves I've done on it. It still feels grindy though and I don't think it's because I haven't broken it in enough.



Have you done 1000+?


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## ottozing (Jun 15, 2013)

Probably like 400+


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## YddEd (Jun 15, 2013)

ottozing said:


> Probably like 400+


I've done less than that and it feels good :/


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## Username (Jun 15, 2013)

ottozing said:


> Probably like 400+




I did like 1000-1500 solves to get the grindy feel away :/ But my cube was really loose, so having it on tighter tensions will probably decrease the amount of solves you need to do.


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## Frubix (Jun 15, 2013)

I don't have a Fangshi yet, but I've tried it in Eindhoven Spring, it's amazing but it feels pretty dry inside.


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## stoic (Jun 15, 2013)

I like the Fangshi. Had it for a couple of weeks now. It's a very forgiving cube, which is good as I'm not really a very accurate turner. It just seems to go where I want it to go. The only real problem I've had is corner twists, which happen WAY more than on any other cube I have. At one point I was getting like one in every Ao12 but as I've got used to it they have definitely reduced. (I think I've modified my turning to compensate rather than any change in the cube.) 
I didn't think anything could budge me from my beloved Zhanchi but this is definitely a great cube for me. 

(Damn, it's LOUD though.)


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## MarcelP (Jun 15, 2013)

I had a bad Fangshi as a first one. I had great averages with it but it turned very slow. Tried everything, different core, different lube, no lube, loose tensions. Nothing helped. Then I got my second Fangshi and that one is awesome. Yesterday I received another one and that one is just as good as the second one. Now I truely feel Fangshi is better than any of my Dayans. They turn effortless, and do not lock up. No pops, when tensions are correct.


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## god of rubic 2 (Jun 15, 2013)

I've received my Fangshi about a week ago but I haven't assembled it. I've heard that it takes time to break it in to get the smooth feeling. Can anyone tell me whats the feel of the cube out of the box, compared to breaking it in several hundred solves. And also how many solves "roughly" should it take for the cube to get a smooth feeling?


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## YddEd (Jun 15, 2013)

god of rubic 2 said:


> I've received my Fangshi about a week ago but I haven't assembled it. I've heard that it takes time to break it in to get the smooth feeling. Can anyone tell me whats the feel of the cube out of the box, compared to breaking it in several hundred solves. And also how many solves "roughly" should it take for the cube to get a smooth feeling?





YddEd said:


> You could also do this.



You could solve it 1,000 times, or you could do ^^ and do a few hundred less?





Also, if you guys think your Fangshi corner twists too much, have a look at how much my YJ 4x4 corner twists. (Every solve)


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## TanookiTrev (Jun 15, 2013)

god of rubic 2 said:


> I've received my Fangshi about a week ago but I haven't assembled it. I've heard that it takes time to break it in to get the smooth feeling. Can anyone tell me whats the feel of the cube out of the box, compared to breaking it in several hundred solves. And also how many solves "roughly" should it take for the cube to get a smooth feeling?





YddEd said:


> You could solve it 1,000 times, or you could do ^^ and do a few hundred less?



I could have sworn I did no more than 250 solves with no mod before I felt a difference in the feel, I can see on the pieces that the plastic has been worn down too so it isn't just a placebo thing.


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## YddEd (Jun 15, 2013)

TanookiTrev said:


> I could have sworn I did no more than 250 solves with no mod before I felt a difference in the feel, I can see on the pieces that the plastic has been worn down too so it isn't just a placebo thing.


I did around the same amount of solves and it was better than when I assembled it, did the mod and it's much better.


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## god of rubic 2 (Jun 15, 2013)

I'll just do a tonne of solves, since I cbs getting sandpaper and washing and stuff.

Thanks for the help guys. Also lube or no lube, again I've heard of different preferences...


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## Lagom (Jun 15, 2013)

god of rubic 2 said:


> I'll just do a tonne of solves, since I cbs getting sandpaper and washing and stuff.
> 
> Thanks for the help guys. Also lube or no lube, again I've heard of different preferences...



No lube on the pieces untill it starts feeling slow

Lube on a new Shuangren will make it gummy and the break in will take longer

No lube on a broken in Shuangren is almost like no lube on a zhanchi


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## Lchu613 (Jun 15, 2013)

What I seem to find is that if you lube it before you've mostly worn down the texture, it makes it disgustingly slow and crappy, but once you can't really feel the swooshy feel and it starts to feel crunchy you can put some diff oil/ lubix in and it does help.

Also their quality control is terrible. I ordered a white one and a black one, and even using the same core+centers (tensions), the white was slower and didn't want to start turning, like it was sticking to itself. The black one was faster and much more responsive.


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## YddEd (Jun 16, 2013)

Lagom said:


> No lube on a broken in Shuangren is almost like no lube on a zhanchi


My Fangshi has no lube and it's better than my lubed Zhanchi's, one modded one unmodded.


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## TanookiTrev (Jun 16, 2013)

I think it may also be luck of the draw as to whether you get a decent cube or not (as mentioned in previous comments regarding quality control) because by the sounds of people here, they've had completely different experiences and outcomes with their cubes than myself and eachother. I'm going to order a couple more at some stage for backups so I hope they're both as good as my first!


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## YddEd (Jun 16, 2013)

Yeah, I'll be getting 2 54.6mm Fangshi's just to make sure.


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## Frubix (Jun 16, 2013)

YddEd said:


> Yeah, I'll be getting 2 54.6mm Fangshi's just to make sure.



Why dont they just say 55mm?
0.4mm is not the limit for the human eye, it's 0.1mm.
anyway, half a milimeter is to small to distinguish with a ruler


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## YddEd (Jun 16, 2013)

Frubix said:


> Why dont they just say 55mm?
> 0.4mm is not the limit for the human eye, it's 0.1mm.
> anyway, half a milimeter is to small to distingu h with a ruler


Well, I think the 0.4mm should be noticeable.


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## stensgaard (Jun 16, 2013)

1000 x 10 sec solves on a loose cube = 200 x 35 sec solves on a tight cube!
Fist time I'm happy to be slow, and inefficient!


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## mark49152 (Jun 16, 2013)

stensgaard said:


> 1000 x 10 sec solves on a loose cube = 200 x 35 sec solves on a tight cube!
> Fist time I'm happy to be slow, and inefficient!


You forgot to account for move count being similar, kinetic energy being proportional to square of angular velocity squared, coefficient of friction as a function of cube tension and of course heating effects on the plastic. Maybe someone with a degree in physics or materials science can help us out here


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## Lagom (Jun 16, 2013)

I just got a white Shuangren and its AMAZING compared to my black one
Its so much faster its ridiculous

I did get another black one as well. We'll see what that one's like...


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## Username (Jun 16, 2013)

I'm starting to luke this one more and more. It might become my main in the near future (unless the weilong proto is amazing)


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## Vanism (Jun 16, 2013)

I have been playing with my black fangshi shuang ren for a while now (more than a month) and it is amazing. A few days ago I changed the core to a cubeforyou core and now it is even better. I love this cube!


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## XTowncuber (Jun 16, 2013)

I bought one of these at New Albany, and I'm 80% sure it will be my main. I love it sooo much; it fits my turning style perfectly.


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