# OLL and PLL have slowed down my times :o



## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

Well, recently, I have been beginning to get into faster methods of solving the standard cube. Using the beginner's method, my record is currently at 26.72, which I believe to be a great accomplishment using that method. 

However, I learned 2-look OLL and PLL to speed up my times, only to have found out that that have slowed down. I have not begun to learn F2L yet, because I am hoping to first become 2nd nature with the 4LLL to speed up my algorithms and recognition. Is there any way for me to improve my recognition times? I feel as if I'm constantly looking at the cube, where I used to be turning the cube the entire time, which looked more impressive...

And I use a storebought cube, which I have broken in for about 2 years, and it cuts corners as good as any special DIY out there .


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## Edward (Aug 3, 2010)

Something simple.
Get some peanut butter
Roll your fingers in it.
Let it sit for 15 minutes.
Wash your hands.
Practice solves using your newly learned algs.


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## buelercuber (Aug 3, 2010)

Edward said:


> Something simple.
> Get some peanut butter
> Roll your fingers in it.
> Let it sit for 15 minutes.
> ...



I second that, its exactly what i did, without the penutbutter part.

(I used fluffernutter)


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 3, 2010)

You all are insane.


Why would you suggest such a thing?


Spoiler








Nutella is clearly superior.



On topic, see the link in my sig about getting faster. It applies.


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

Guys, you don't seem to understand what you're talking about. Peanut butter. Fluffernutter? Nutella? Let's go back to the classics here:


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## TeddyKGB (Aug 3, 2010)

Edward said:


> Something simple.
> Get some peanut butter
> Roll your fingers in it.
> Let it sit for 15 minutes.
> ...





partylikeaturtle said:


> Guys, you don't seem to understand what you're talking about. Peanut butter. Fluffernutter? Nutella? Let's go back to the classics here:


I say we mix these two and then add a nice glass of milk, yum


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## ~Phoenix Death~ (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> Well, recently, I have been beginning to get into faster methods of solving the standard cube. Using the beginner's method, my record is currently at 26.72, which I believe to be a great accomplishment using that method.
> 
> However, I learned 2-look OLL and PLL to speed up my times, only to have found out that that have slowed down. I have not begun to learn F2L yet, because I am hoping to first become 2nd nature with the 4LLL to speed up my algorithms and recognition. Is there any way for me to improve my recognition times? I feel as if I'm constantly looking at the cube, where I used to be turning the cube the entire time, which looked more impressive...
> 
> And I use a storebought cube, which I have broken in for about 2 years, and it cuts corners as good as any special DIY out there .



Practice.


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## AngeL (Aug 3, 2010)

^Psssshhh. Stop giving him ridiculous, unbelievable answers.


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## musicninja17 (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> Well, recently, I have been beginning to get into faster methods of solving the standard cube. Using the beginner's method, my record is currently at 26.72, which I believe to be a great accomplishment using that method.
> 
> However, I learned 2-look OLL and PLL to speed up my times, only to have found out that that have slowed down. I have not begun to learn F2L yet, because I am hoping to first become 2nd nature with the 4LLL to speed up my algorithms and recognition. Is there any way for me to improve my recognition times? I feel as if I'm constantly looking at the cube, where I used to be turning the cube the entire time, which looked more impressive...
> 
> And I use a storebought cube, which I have broken in for about 2 years, and it cuts corners as good as any special DIY out there .



Practice practice practice. Of course you're going to be slower with a method unfamiliar to you. But in the long run, you'll be much faster than beginners. You just can't beat straight up low move counts combined with pretty easy difficulty. It just takes a little to get used to.

Oh and, as much as you won't like to hear this, a two year old broken in storebought is STILL not as good as a "special DIY". Seriously. Don't bash DIYs just because you don't have one, you can't tell me a storebought cuts as much as my modded AV.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 3, 2010)

musicninja17 said:


> Oh and, as much as you won't like to hear this, a two year old broken in storebought is STILL not as good as a "special DIY". Seriously. Don't bash DIYs just because you don't have one, you can't tell me a storebought cuts as much as my modded AV.


Agreed. I had a very nice storebought that I used for a long time, and it worked just fine, and I thought it was great. And then I went back to my DIY...it doesn't _feel_ as smooth, but it's way faster. Way better corner cutting. True, a need for ridiculous corner cutting indicates a need for more accurate turning...but LL algs just aren't going to be as fast on a storebought. No matter how broken in it is.


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

My storebought is perfectly fine. I don't know why, but even when I bought it, it cut corners. And I'm not bashing DIYs, I'm just stating that I believe my cube is perfectly great. And it's unmodded, because although your modded cube is claimed to be better, my cube turns as fast as I really need it, and I don't have time to mod...

But my cube has popped twice so far, I tend to get a little too fast for it... haha. Although that means once a year.


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## Daniel Wu (Aug 3, 2010)

If you feel like you're constantly looking at the cube, then you probably haven't practiced enough. Just practice. It works.


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

Yeah, I just have to work on my PLL recognition I guess...

And nice almost-sub-10 solve.


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## musicninja17 (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> My storebought is perfectly fine. I don't know why, but even when I bought it, it cut corners. And I'm not bashing DIYs, I'm just stating that I believe my cube is perfectly great. And it's unmodded, because although your modded cube is claimed to be better, my cube turns as fast as I really need it, and I don't have time to mod...
> 
> But my cube has popped twice so far, I tend to get a little too fast for it... haha. Although that means once a year.



Yes, it's 'perfectly fine'. 
But if you really want to get serious about solving, you're probably going to have to graduate from rubik's brand.
And you don't have to mod, just find a DIY that's right for you....


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## Edward (Aug 3, 2010)

AngeL said:


> ^Psssshhh. Stop giving him ridiculous, unbelievable answers.



My answer wasn't ridiculous and it was very believable D:


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

Oh, trust me, I've been looking into what type of DIY to get, and have been looking into Type Cs. What do you think is the DIY that pops the least, because I get violent with my cubes >


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## Edward (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> Oh, trust me, I've been looking into what type of DIY to get, and have been looking into Type Cs. What do you think is the DIY that pops the least, because I get violent with my cubes >



I seem to be alone in this opinion, but I like my Ghost Hand alot (even compared to my late F2).

It doesn't really pop on me, Cuts corners at a decent amount, and is smooth but still fast.

Though you'll kind of just have to experiment and find out what suits you. Sucks, but yeah.


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## ElderKingpin (Aug 3, 2010)

that means spending a lot of moolah. But a good cube thats right for you is priceless.


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## mynameiswillem (Aug 3, 2010)

sub-30 with beginners method? i smell bs or some kind of LL skip...

whats your average?


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

mynameiswillem said:


> sub-30 with beginners method? i smell bs or some kind of LL skip...
> 
> whats your average?



I swear, I've gotten that. My average used to be around 33-34ish, and there was absolutely no LL skips or easy scrambles. I was just on a roll...

After all, 3 years of using one method and 2 of those years using the same cube, That sub 30 was like my Brick wall. Now, with my 2LOLL and 2LPLL, my averages are from 36-40ish, until I get used to those algorithms...

the problem with my cubing is that I spent too much time using the beginner's method. 

And besides, I have no need to lie. I am a man of my word.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 3, 2010)

mynameiswillem said:


> sub-30 with beginners method? i smell bs or some kind of LL skip...
> 
> whats your average?



It's quite possible to get sub-30 with LBL. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLki-254ZKA
Sub-20 with 4LLL.


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## mynameiswillem (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> mynameiswillem said:
> 
> 
> > sub-30 with beginners method? i smell bs or some kind of LL skip...
> ...



well my advice for easy time reductions is intuitive F2L.

if youre still using the corners first then edges F2L, thats where all your time goes into.


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

mynameiswillem said:


> partylikeaturtle said:
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> > mynameiswillem said:
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I've noticed that. Sometimes, on my good solves, I would finish the 2 layers from 10-15 seconds, and it would take long because I used beginner's... But ever since I started learning 4LLL, I have only been solving the last layer, so I could practice my algorithms... So I took a step back with those 2 layers... But I feel that once I start F2L method, I should be able to balance the two and this get better times and averages...

But lord, you should've seen my fingers... haha


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## incessantcheese (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> Sometimes, on my good solves, I would finish the 2 layers from 10-15 seconds



O_O

layer by layer for a 10s first two layers? your cube and hands must be godly lol.


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

incessantcheese said:


> partylikeaturtle said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes, on my good solves, I would finish the 2 layers from 10-15 seconds
> ...



That's why my time has slowed down. I could recognize everything in the blink of an eye, if you will. But with these new algorithms and such, until they're my 2nd nature, it'll be awhile until they're as familiar to me as the original set of algorithms...

Maybe I should have just never learned the beginner's method, I wonder how that would work... Yeah, it woujld take you longer how to solve the cube, but once you did, you'd be at a great starting point...


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 3, 2010)

incessantcheese said:


> partylikeaturtle said:
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> 
> > Sometimes, on my good solves, I would finish the 2 layers from 10-15 seconds
> ...


I wanna see that on video...


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

hawkmp4 said:


> incessantcheese said:
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> > partylikeaturtle said:
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I have a video, but it was from awhile ago, and the cube was kind of out of picture... I don't take video anymore because the video camera's charger is gone and I can't edit with my regular camera's .mov videos...

But I truthfully did that, I have no need to lie.


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## FatBoyXPC (Aug 3, 2010)

Man Erik posted that sub20 avg12, and his F2L times were higher than that. If you didn't know, he's the world record holder of a single solve. I don't think Feliks has posted a video similar to Erik's doing the beginner's method (the world record holder for average of 5), but would say he would would be cutting it close to get a 10 second F2L using LBL.

Remember, even though it's 4LLL, 2LOLL is easily done in under 5 seconds, and the A and E perms are insanely quick, and the edge perms are even faster. Even with 4LLL you're looking at under a 10 second last layer.

Watch the video, his F2L times are 11, 13, 12, 13, 12, 12, etc. See the trend? He's also opposite color neutral, which makes it easier for him to make a cross. I find it incredibly hard to believe you are doing a 10 second F2L LBL.


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## Joker (Aug 3, 2010)

hawkmp4 said:


> mynameiswillem said:
> 
> 
> > sub-30 with beginners method? i smell bs or some kind of LL skip...
> ...



He used 4LLL, not complete beginner's...
And he's Erik anyhow.

And saying that you have no need to lie over and over doesn't accomplish anything.
Record a vid somehow, and upload it.


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## Edward (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> hawkmp4 said:
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> > incessantcheese said:
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That's some high TPS ya got there. I'd love to see it in action. Hurry up and learn the methods so you can has fastness.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 3, 2010)

Joker said:


> hawkmp4 said:
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> > mynameiswillem said:
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Bold parts.
Yes, he's Erik, but other people have done it too.


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## nck (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> I've noticed that. Sometimes, on my good solves, I would finish the 2 layers from *10-15 seconds*, and it would take long because I used beginner's... But ever since I started learning 4LLL, I have only been solving the last layer, so I could practice my algorithms... So I took a step back with those 2 layers... But I feel that once I start F2L method, I should be able to balance the two and this get better times and averages...
> 
> But lord, you should've seen my fingers... haha



Keep practicing your last layer.
Your f2l is already faster than the WR holder.
Gratz


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## incessantcheese (Aug 3, 2010)

guys, i've figured it out. he has a really good cube, and he turns really fast with it. i've seen these before, like, 1/1000 storebought cubes are actually completely godly. they can cut corners really well and almost never lock up, and turn faster than an f-2. you just have to get really lucky! i recommend he doesn't waste money buying a diy at this point.

also, for the 10s first two layers thing, some people just have really, really fast reflexes. for some of these people, it's actually faster to look for one piece at a time because their reaction time is so crazy insane. this is also very rare, which is why you see so few people compete with layer by layer instead of slotting pairs. i think if OP were to learn 2 look last layer he could start setting some really amazing times. can't wait to see him in competition.


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## maggot (Aug 3, 2010)

You guys are awful... the way to get fast with 4LLL is the same as becoming fast at beginner. Its all about piece recognition balance with turning speed. Since you are not used to piece recognition because it is very complex, compare with beginner, and you have 20 algorithm to use to solve instead of 4, you're going to be slow. I reccomend using badmephisto pll trainer for helping you with speed, forget recognition and go for speed with alg. Become comfortable and ensure you PLL are less than 5 second or so, then you will see improvement.


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

incessantcheese said:


> guys, i've figured it out. he has a really good cube, and he turns really fast with it. i've seen these before, like, 1/1000 storebought cubes are actually completely godly. they can cut corners really well and almost never lock up, and turn faster than an f-2. you just have to get really lucky! i recommend he doesn't waste money buying a diy at this point.
> 
> also, for the 10s first two layers thing, some people just have really, really fast reflexes. for some of these people, it's actually faster to look for one piece at a time because their reaction time is so crazy insane. this is also very rare, which is why you see so few people compete with layer by layer instead of slotting pairs. i think if OP were to learn 2 look last layer he could start setting some really amazing times. can't wait to see him in competition.



Someone realizes! By cutting corners great, my cube can cut corners at exactly 1 block (when the wedge's left side is lines up with the center's right side). It's crazy.

And I used to solve at about 4 to 5 turns per second if I calculate it. Seeing how overall, it takes from 130-150 moves to solve the cube for me using the beginner's method.


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## nck (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> Someone realizes! By cutting corners great, my cube can cut corners at exactly 1 block (when the wedge's left side is lines up with the center's right side). It's crazy.
> 
> And I used to solve at about 4 to 5 turns per second if I calculate it. Seeing how overall, it takes from 130-150 moves to solve the cube for me using the beginner's method.


let's see
Assuming you can build the cross in 7moves, inserting each corner takes 4-5moves, inserting each edge takes ~8 moves. That's roughly 12moves for each f2l pair.

Assuming there is no 'f2l edge skips' it takes at most 60 moves to finish f2l.

:fpLooks like you really have to improve your LL since it's like wat, 80+moves?


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

nck said:


> partylikeaturtle said:
> 
> 
> > Someone realizes! By cutting corners great, my cube can cut corners at exactly 1 block (when the wedge's left side is lines up with the center's right side). It's crazy.
> ...



Well, for the F2L, I didn't do the whole cross thing (which I should've done). Instead, I would sometimes put corners in before the cross, I basically just solved the side altogether, which is probably why it was so many moves.


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## uberCuber (Aug 3, 2010)

that makes me believe you even less. I need to see a video before I believe that you can do a 10s F2L using beginner method without even solving the cross completely first...


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

uberCuber said:


> that makes me believe you even less. I need to see a video before I believe that you can do a 10s F2L using beginner method without even solving the cross completely first...



I didn't say it was 10 seconds every time, it was mostly 15 seconds. Look, I've got no need to lie about something so frivolous. All I know is that I can turn a Rubik's cube fast...


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## RopedBBQ (Aug 3, 2010)

You know. Id really like a video. This is pretty hard to believe. Videonaoplz.


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## partylikeaturtle (Aug 3, 2010)

RopedBBQ said:


> You know. Id really like a video. This is pretty hard to believe. Videonaoplz.



I don't have a video camera, I'm 15. 

And even if I took a video, I don't use that method anymore.


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## RopedBBQ (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> RopedBBQ said:
> 
> 
> > You know. Id really like a video. This is pretty hard to believe. Videonaoplz.
> ...



Yeah but you could use the method. ITs not like once you change its IMPOSSIBLE to go back.

And I have a webcam and Im 12. Ask your parents or borrow someones, because this is fishy.


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## Radcuber (Aug 3, 2010)

You think he's trolling?


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## RopedBBQ (Aug 3, 2010)

Radcuber said:


> You think he's trolling?



Maybe, its a tad plausible that he had sub thirty singles with beginner method, especially for the last layer.


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## Radcuber (Aug 3, 2010)

Ah yes true. Although Erik showed himself doing a sub -20 solve with beginner Fridrich (Beginner f2l, 4LLL)


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## RopedBBQ (Aug 3, 2010)

Radcuber said:


> Ah yes true. Although Erik showed himself doing a sub -20 solve with beginner Fridrich (Beginner f2l, 4LLL)


Thats even with 4LLL. This guy, (unless Im wrong) is using the beginner method LL. Make and permute a cross. Do corners.


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## amostay2004 (Aug 3, 2010)

C'mon, a decent number of people here can easily sub-30 average with the beginner's method you described.

I'd like to prove you wrong, but I haven't assembled my cube after washing it so I can't do an average right now


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## Whyusosrs? (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> ...
> And I use a storebought cube, which I have broken in for about 2 years, and it cuts corners as good as any special DIY out there .



Can your cube cut 55 degrees? I think not. My guhong>your rubik's brand



partylikeaturtle said:


> RopedBBQ said:
> 
> 
> > You know. Id really like a video. This is pretty hard to believe. Videonaoplz.
> ...



I had a video camera when I was 8. 

I then won an Oscar for best director when I was 9.


EDIT: I just looked on your YouTube. You have several videos that are recorded.


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## uberCuber (Aug 3, 2010)

Whyusosrs? said:


> EDIT: I just looked on your YouTube. You have several videos that are recorded.



:fp

yes that was justified..

give us a video now plz


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## FatBoyXPC (Aug 3, 2010)

I don't necessarily think you are lying, more of think that you just are exaggerating a bit on accident. A lot of people do this, so it's not exactly a bad thing. I think had you realized that was the case and told everybody that after the first few "we don't believe you" replies, they'd all have understood. Now you are still making this claim like it's true, regardless of what we say, and I think that's where the issue is.



partylikeaturtle said:


> I have a video, but it was from awhile ago, and the cube was kind of out of picture... I don't take video anymore because the video camera's charger is gone and *I can't edit with my regular camera's .mov videos...*
> 
> But I truthfully did that, I have no need to lie.



There's no need to edit. Get your cube and timer ready, make sure we can see both the entire duration of each solve. Hit record, say oh hey look it's partylikeaturtle I'm going to show you my 10 second LBL F2L. Give us a good average of 5 or average of 12, then hit stop, upload to youtube.


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## RopedBBQ (Aug 3, 2010)

fatboyxpc said:


> I don't necessarily think you are lying, more of think that you just are exaggerating a bit on accident. A lot of people do this, so it's not exactly a bad thing. I think had you realized that was the case and told everybody that after the first few "we don't believe you" replies, they'd all have understood. Now you are still making this claim like it's true, regardless of what we say, and I think that's where the issue is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not to mention now hes claiming he doesnt even HAVE a camera.


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## bootmii (Aug 3, 2010)

I use LBL and get under 240. I tried CFOP and it *really* slowed down my times.


Spoiler



LBL is actually _better_ than CFOP.


I can _memorize_ LBL.


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## uberCuber (Aug 3, 2010)

bootmii said:


> I use LBL and get under 240. I tried CFOP and it *really* slowed down my times.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Intuitive F2L in fact requires _less_ memorization than the LBL method for the F2L because there are *no* algorithms, and can be more than twice as fast if you actually do something that probably never occured to you, _*practice*_.


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## incessantcheese (Aug 3, 2010)

partylikeaturtle said:


> incessantcheese said:
> 
> 
> > guys, i've figured it out. he has a really good cube, and he turns really fast with it. i've seen these before, like, 1/1000 storebought cubes are actually completely godly. they can cut corners really well and almost never lock up, and turn faster than an f-2. you just have to get really lucky! i recommend he doesn't waste money buying a diy at this point.
> ...



guys, leave him alone. i already solved the mystery. i told you - super rare storebought cube and insane human reaction time. i suggest he sticks with layer by layer because that will clearly get him the best result. and see, he can do 4-5 turns per second easily; i don't think i can even sustain that for a complete solve on my guhong! he just needs to train and he'll be better than faz in like 4 months.


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## Edward (Aug 3, 2010)

incessantcheese said:


> partylikeaturtle said:
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> > incessantcheese said:
> ...


You're really leading him down a path he probably shouldn't take =/

If he learns another method, all that will do is decrease his movecount. Combine that with his fast TPS, he'll get a much better gain out of it.


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## uberCuber (Aug 3, 2010)

incessantcheese said:


> partylikeaturtle said:
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> > incessantcheese said:
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are you trying to say he's going to get the new WR with LBL method?


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## Daniel Wu (Aug 3, 2010)

140 moves / 5 tps = 28 seconds


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## incessantcheese (Aug 3, 2010)

absolutely! with stats like his, who can argue against it! this guy's clearly some kind of prodigy. how many people can do first two layers one at a time in 10s? i certainly can't... that takes talent lol


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## Edward (Aug 3, 2010)

incessantcheese said:


> absolutely! with stats like his, who can argue against it! this guy's clearly some kind of prodigy. how many people can do first two layers one at a time in 10s? i certainly can't... that takes talent lol



And so he should not limit himself by using a method that uses so many moves. We right kthnxbai


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## uberCuber (Aug 3, 2010)

incessantcheese said:


> absolutely! with stats like his, who can argue against it! this guy's clearly some kind of prodigy. how many people can do first two layers one at a time in 10s? i certainly can't... that takes talent lol



we still have no proof that he can do it in 10s because he keeps saying he can't take a video even though he already has videos on youtube


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## incessantcheese (Aug 3, 2010)

i guess my trolling was a little too well disguised -_- i fail. i'll leave this thread now. i dunno... super rare storebought? is that a valid theory? lol


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## Daniel Wu (Aug 3, 2010)

incessantcheese said:


> partylikeaturtle said:
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> > incessantcheese said:
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Is not difficult imo.
EDIT: lol. Yes you're trolling was well disguised. So many people say stupid stuff that I'm having a hard time telling what is trolling and what isn't. :/


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## uberCuber (Aug 3, 2010)

lol to get WR with LBL he would need 20 tps :fp

EDIT: i can never tell when someone's trolling because people say really stupid stuff when they aren't trolling


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## incessantcheese (Aug 3, 2010)

uberCuber said:


> lol to get WR with LBL he would need 20 tps :fp
> 
> EDIT: i can never tell when someone's trolling because people say really stupid stuff when they aren't trolling



yeah... i guess i know what you mean. i've seen some people that i was certain were trolling here and it ends up turning out at the end that they probably were dead serious :fp

i guess this isn't the right place to do that stuff lol.


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## Nestor (Aug 3, 2010)

26 secs using begginers...

I'ma stop browsing these forums they only make me feel like a piece of s..t.:fp


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## nck (Aug 4, 2010)

amostay2004 said:


> C'mon, a decent number of people here can easily sub-30 average with the beginner's method you described.
> 
> I'd like to prove you wrong, but I haven't assembled my cube after washing it so I can't do an average right now



subing 30 using beginners is quite different from getting 10-15s f2l i guess.


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## Innocence (Aug 4, 2010)

What ubercuber said. He has videos on youtube.

@OP So show us your pwnage TPS, however you can.


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