# Chinese Gymnasts



## rubiksfriend (Aug 24, 2008)

I'm sure everyone who has been watching the Olympics has heard about it, but who thinks some of the Chinese gymnasts are really underage? I have my doubts, but... what do you guys think?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/2008/08/14/underage.gymnasts/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/sports/olympics/27gymnasts.html
http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/gymnastics/story/2008/08/03/china-gymnastics.html?ref=rss


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## CAT13 (Aug 24, 2008)

I think that there shouldn't be an age limit


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## pcharles93 (Aug 24, 2008)

Umm, does it really matter? There's a higher risk of injury for younger athletes, but there's an even bigger reason they are investigating with so much effort. The other countries don't want to be embarrassed by the fact that their gymnasts couldn't surpass underage Olympian athletes.


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## rubiksfriend (Aug 24, 2008)

14-year olds are smaller, have narrower hips thus better balance, can perform more turns,flips, etc. They have an advantage. That's why there's an age limit.
Another reason other countries are investigating this is because cheating is illegal and unfair.


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## pcharles93 (Aug 24, 2008)

rubiksfriend said:


> 14-year olds are smaller, have narrower hips thus better balance, can perform more turns,flips, etc. They have an advantage. That's why there's an age limit.
> Another reason other countries are investigating this is because cheating is illegal and unfair.



So they send in older athletes to throw off their general performance? I thought the Olympics were meant to showcase the best athletes from around the world to promote international relations. So by your reasoning, they're keeping the best away from the Olympics.

In actuality, it is better to have people who have completely developed bones(no more cartilage) compete. 14 year olds are smaller, have narrower hips thus weaker bones. They can't perform with the same intensity as the older athletes because of the risk of stress fractures.


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## qqwref (Aug 24, 2008)

From what I've heard, they created the age limit in order to prevent younger competitors from getting hurt in the Games. As rubiksfriend mentioned, it is pretty well-known that there are a few gymnastic events where younger competitors have a clear advantage. So the age limit is definitely preventing the best possible performances from being shown. However, while the rule is there, it has to be followed, even if you don't think it shows the best possible performances. (And remember that an age limit such as this shouldn't prevent any athletes from competing, since all of the disputed gymnasts will be well over 16 by the next Olympics.) Since it doesn't seem like China used underaged athletes as a protest against the rule, what they did can only be seen as cheating, and their gymnastics team should be punished accordingly.


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## ajmorgan25 (Aug 25, 2008)

pcharles93 said:


> rubiksfriend said:
> 
> 
> > 14-year olds are smaller, have narrower hips thus better balance, can perform more turns,flips, etc. They have an advantage. That's why there's an age limit.
> ...



Most of the arguments I've heard about the underage gymnasts are not about the physical aspects of the game. It's all arguing about the psychological part of it. At a younger age, you personally don't understand exactly how big the Olympics really is.


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## Creebe (Aug 25, 2008)

there shouldn't be an age limit. 

whoever made that limit is a dickhead. 

Sure younger, shorter gymnasts have a better balance, but meanwhile they also lack experience which older gymnasts may possess.

Gymnastics are sports for the younger athletes, once you pass 28, you're done. 

They should remove the age limit.


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## PCwizCube (Aug 25, 2008)

Creebe said:


> there shouldn't be an age limit.
> Gymnastics are sports for the younger athletes, once you pass 28, you're done.


I saw a male gymnast in the rings thing. I don't know how old he was, but he had grey hair (no kidding)


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## DavidWoner (Aug 25, 2008)

i dont know if anyone else noticed this on the first link but it says that He is only 13 then in the caption under the picture it says:



> If the Chinese news report is correct, gold medalist He Kexin is two years under the age of Olympic eligibility (16).



idiots


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## hdskull (Aug 25, 2008)

Yea, the age restriction is stupid, because as Michael said, is to prevent them from getting hurt. Well, if you're 16 and you're in the olympics, doesn't mean that it prevents you from getting hurt when you're 15 and at the gym practicing. It's obvious that you have to practice the moves that you're going to perform in the olympics, and a year's worth of practice is at least required, so putting the age restriction at 16 still doesn't prevent younger kids to get injured. Get what I'm saying? If they want the athlete's bodies to become mature and decrease the chances of injury, they should set the age restriction at 21. 

I think the gymnasts are AT LEAST 15. Asians cannot look younger? Just because China has the resources to offer young athletes?(there was an old lady as I recall, haha.) I think this controversy is pointless, because China has met the requirements, if whoever complained had a problem with it, they should've came up with the conflict BEFORE they competed, not after they received medals. "Here, go compete. Oh, I see you got a medal, so you must've cheated, taken steroids, or is underage."

It's unfair to the athletes.


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## Rawn (Aug 25, 2008)

It would be unfair if the Athletes went through all that hard work and have to have their medals taken away from them just because they're under age.

They shouldn't have the age limit.


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## rubiksfriend (Aug 25, 2008)

Vault312 said:


> i dont know if anyone else noticed this on the first link but it says that He is only 13 then in the caption under the picture it says:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This confused me as well, but it turns out that you may be 15 and compete if your turn 16 later that year. The age limit used to be 15, which is how Nadia Comaneci competed at age 14; she turned 15 later that year.


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## Carlos (Aug 26, 2008)

I have something to show concerning "Chinese Gymnasts":







This is one of the things i got in a e-mail message about somethings chinese people do. Mournful.


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## ajmorgan25 (Aug 26, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> Creebe said:
> 
> 
> > there shouldn't be an age limit.
> ...


 
I know who you're talking about. If I remember correctly, he's about 32.


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## Alex DiTuro (Aug 26, 2008)

Umm... you guys do know that it was proven that the really little one *actually* was 12 years old. She lost her gold but zhongguo got to keep it.  And another "14" year old is under investigation.


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## shelley (Aug 26, 2008)

Alex DiTuro said:


> Umm... you guys do know that it was proven that the really little one *actually* was 12 years old. She lost her gold but zhongguo got to keep it.  And another "14" year old is under investigation.



Link? I haven't seen anything about the gymnasts being stripped of medals, just that the investigation on their ages is still underway.


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## pcharles93 (Aug 26, 2008)

This is pretty funny. They proved that a 12 year old won a gold medal? What does that say about all the other gymnasts?


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## keyan (Aug 26, 2008)

shelley said:


> Link? I haven't seen anything about the gymnasts being stripped of medals, just that the investigation on their ages is still underway.



No matter what comes of any investigations, no one's medals will be taken. China pays the IOC far too much for anything to happen. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9fGalgLfoc


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## Crzyazn (Aug 26, 2008)

How many of these comments AREN'T fueled by national pride?

IMO, USA is just being a sore loser. Investigation was begun only AFTER team USA lost the gold medal that was "theirs". Face it, Sacramone blew it and the next team capitalized on her error. Did anyone even see the 200 sprint? One guy got DQed and during the review, USA just happens to point out that 3rd place also should be DQed. "Coincidentally", a USA athlete moves in for a medal 

What the hell is that Carlos? Anti-China propaganda spat out by some vigilante with a camera and a dream...

As for age limits, I can understand how it is viewed as a protective buffer, but it is not "cheating" to be more skilled at a younger age.


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## Swoncen (Aug 26, 2008)

Carlos said:


> I have something to show concerning "Chinese Gymnasts":
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is what they show.. imagine what we cannot see..


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## qqwref (Aug 26, 2008)

Crzyazn said:


> How many of these comments AREN'T fueled by national pride?


Let me tell you something. I don't care what country wins the medal, never have, and never will. The Olympics is about individual athletes being awesome. It's not Jamaica that set a new 100m and 200m world record, but Usain Bolt. Not only am I not proud of the US at all, but I'd think about the cheating thing entirely the same way if any other teams had come in 2nd or 3rd or 4th. It doesn't matter: if a team breaks rules that they had full knowledge of, in order to gain an advantage over other teams that are following the rules, everyone who says they should be punished is correct. No matter what country you are from, you should always be behind disqualifying athletes or teams that break rules in order to win. What about that guy who broke the "no looking under your blindfold" rule and got several blindfold cubing world records? Do you think the people who said his records should be removed were just trying to improve the rank of their countries' competitors?



Crzyazn said:


> As for age limits, I can understand how it is viewed as a protective buffer, but it is not "cheating" to be more skilled at a younger age.


Perhaps you don't understand the way gymnastics works. It's not like in cubing where solving the cube in 12 seconds is the same rank for everyone - in gymnastics performances are graded by a group of judges who give points for things like grace and execution. After and during puberty people's bodies change, and their centers of gravity shift; so in a few events being younger can mean that an athlete with the same skill as an older one gets a better score, because they can execute certain tricks more easily or gracefully. Because of this, it can indeed be cheating to compete at a younger age. Besides, if the rule calls for an age limit, that's the rule and it has to be followed.


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## F.P. (Aug 26, 2008)

I don't really care about the olympics but it's quite obvious that the cheating aspect isn't that important...the only thing important is that someone is like way better than someone else and the "losers" actually know a way to get the medals back.
Seriously, with all this doping in sports nowadays it's ridiculous to talk about "cheating" when there is a 12 year-old winning the gold medal.

And to comment the two pics someone posted:

As far as I know the majority of the "superior people" (not only in sports) were "made". That means that their parents (or someone else) basically "made them do it" when they were young (because you need to start young if you want to belong to the best and I doubt that there are a lot of two-year old kids who already plan to become a great musician or athlete at this age).
I could tell you a few stories about austrian skiers (we have some of the best) and what their childhood was like.

With all these exposed doping affairs in the last few years, this whole sports-scene became a joke.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Aug 26, 2008)

Swoncen said:


> This is what they show.. imagine what we cannot see..



You're presumptious enough to assume that China's the only country that does this.


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## qqwref (Aug 26, 2008)

F.P. said:


> Seriously, with all this doping in sports nowadays it's ridiculous to talk about "cheating" when there is a 12 year-old winning the gold medal.



I'll agree with you when you show me a bodybuilder who even comes close to doing well in gymnastics. The whole reason young women win gold medals in it is because it's about grace and technique, not strength.


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## F.P. (Aug 26, 2008)

qqwref said:


> F.P. said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously, with all this doping in sports nowadays it's ridiculous to talk about "cheating" when there is a 12 year-old winning the gold medal.
> ...




Errr...not only body-builders are doping. Actually doping doesn't necessarily mean that you're supporting "strength". Doping can push other important aspects too.
And what I wanted to say is that they shouldn't worry about a 12 year old participating in this event while others are drug addicted and push their performances with illegal drugs.


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## Alex DiTuro (Aug 26, 2008)

shelley said:


> Alex DiTuro said:
> 
> 
> > Umm... you guys do know that it was proven that the really little one *actually* was 12 years old. She lost her gold but zhongguo got to keep it.  And another "14" year old is under investigation.
> ...



They talked about during the gymnastics events. I'll see if I can find a link.


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## keyan (Aug 26, 2008)

Crzyazn said:


> IMO, USA is just being a sore loser. Investigation was begun only AFTER team USA lost the gold medal that was "theirs".



nytimes.com
ZOMG NEW YORK TIMES HAS A TIME MACHINE!!!1

It doesn't matter what the results were, cheating is cheating. If the last place team were cheating, they should be disqualified.


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## Andreaillest (Aug 27, 2008)

Cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if this was investigated before or after the olympics. If your bold enough to cheat, then you should be punished accordingly.


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## KConny (Aug 27, 2008)

I don't like the idea that you have to start devoting you life to a sport before you're mature enough to make that big of a desicion.


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## PCwizCube (Aug 27, 2008)

I went to my dentist today to get a check-up and we talked about the Chinese Gymnists.

She said they're OBVIOUSLY underage because of they're teeth. You don't get all your grownup molars teeth until you're 12-13 years old. Just look at they're smile and you'll see they're missing some molars....


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## JBCM627 (Aug 27, 2008)

Rubik's Cube Fan said:


> She said they're OBVIOUSLY underage because of they're teeth. You don't get all your grownup molars teeth until you're 12-13 years old. Just look at they're smile and you'll see they're missing some molars....



I just google imaged this, and I can only see their front 4 or so teeth in most pictures. But this is actually a fairly good idea for telling ages... something I didn't even think about.


I don't know if being young is necessarily an advantage in that you may have a good body shape, so much as not having to re-learn all your skills after your body changes. If you start at an early age, you can get in a good number of years of practice with the same proportions. But during puberty, well... I've heard it referred to as the "ugly duckling stage". Those familiar proportions are gone. And so after going through puberty, you will have to re-learn most skills. This is certainly true in swimming, at least, and I can only imagine how the effect would be exaggerated for someone whose body severely changes itself. Afterwords, for girls at least, they are nearly done with their prime... they really don't grow any more past age 17 or 18, with a rare case going into the 20s.

Nevertheless, I really don't enjoy seeing an age limit. If the Olympics is going to have the best people, and someone young is able to be an awesome gymnast, then all the more reason for them to shine while they still can. I don't know how much of an argument the IOC would have presented for psychological reasons... they certainly aren't due to risk of physical injury (There is a minimum age in diving... who ever gets hurt there?). I'd think it would have more to do with attempting to prevent happenings like those shown in Carlos's pictures... forcing kids to do more than is good for them. It is unfortunate that this happens at all, and is something I would consider a far worse form of cheating. It might not be breaking an IOC rule, but I'd say it breaks a few moral ones.

And whoever was talking about body builders, gymnasts are pretty jacked too... they just put it to use. Roids would definately help with those iron crosses.


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## TurbulentTurtle (Aug 30, 2008)

Doesn't matter, they were extremely hot.


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 30, 2008)

TurbulentTurtle said:


> Doesn't matter, they were extremely hot.



Did you read the post above you? Where there was intelligent discussion going on? And you add THAT?

Seriously, maybe I'm just having a bad day, but...this kind of stuff is really pissing me off.
Has this forum gone down the toilet?
There seems to be more and more useless crap on the forums, all over, not just the off topic one. I don't blame any of the mods for this, especially not PJK... I blame members...


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## pcharles93 (Aug 30, 2008)

hawkmp4 said:


> TurbulentTurtle said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't matter, they were extremely hot.
> ...



Have you taken a look at his avatar GIF? Or was that supposed to be a really subtle joke?


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 30, 2008)

pcharles93 said:


> Have you taken a look at his avatar GIF? Or was that supposed to be a really subtle joke?


>.>
Didn't see that avatar, hehe. But I used that instead of profanity. I used SOME self-control.


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