# Roux Colour Neutrality Theory



## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

So, this has been done for Fridrich, but I was wondering, what are the average move counts for Roux if you are colour neutral.

First Block:
1. Fixed L and D colours
2. Fixed L colour, but neutral for D colour
3. Opposite colour neutral
4. Completly colour neutral

Second Block:
a. Matching blocks
b. Non-matching blocks

So there are 8 main ways that I can think of for building the first 2 blocks. I know that 1a has the highest average move count, and 4b has the lowest, but I was wondering the exact numbers, to see what the difference is, and everything in between.

Thanks guys.


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 17, 2009)

STOP MAKING ROUX THREADS!!!
IT'S CALLED USE WAFFLE'S THREAD LIKE WE ALWAYS DO!!!!


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

...but this is different, this is Puzzle Theory.


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## Johannes91 (Aug 17, 2009)

Optimal first block, in FTM:
1. 6.70
2. 6.04
3. Clarify what you mean.
4. 5.11

I think it would be more meaningful to look at the probability of getting an easy case (like at most 4 or 5 moves) because they are easy to spot, but you can't get near the optimal averages.

Dunno about second block.

Edit: And yes, this should've been in the existing thread.


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## jms_gears1 (Aug 17, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> STOP MAKING ROUX THREADS!!!
> IT'S CALLED USE WAFFLE'S THREAD LIKE WE ALWAYS DO!!!!



NOFREAINGWAY ANOTHER ROUX THREAD YOUR GONNA DIE YOU HORRIBLE PERSON AND ROT IN HADES FOR YOUR TERRIBLE HEINOUS CRIME.

OR

get over yourelves look at the amount of friedrich threads


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 17, 2009)

No. This is Roux. Everything Roux can stay in the threads that have already been made. Note the number of ZZ threads recently made, even the number or CFOP or Petrus threads.
VERY LITTLE.
And their users seem to be fine not creating threads every day...


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## jms_gears1 (Aug 17, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> No. This is Roux. Everything Roux can stay in the threads that have already been made. Note the number of ZZ threads recently made, even the number or CFOP or Petrus threads.
> VERY LITTLE.
> And their users seem to be fine not creating threads every day...



but questions like this deserve their own thread just because they say roux or have roux in them doesnt deny them that right. stop freaking out why do you care if there are a lot of roux threads it hurts no one and may actually help. 

the only thing tat hurts anyone is people like you posting posts like that to tell people they shouldnt have posted this thread.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> Optimal first block, in FTM:
> 1. 6.70
> 2. 6.04
> 3. Clarify what you mean.
> ...



Thanks for the extremely fast reply . I was hoping to hear from you.

3 would be solving either (for example) a yellow block or a white block (on L) first. Kind of like a opposite colour neutral cross.



Stachuk1992 said:


> STOP MAKING ROUX THREADS!!!
> IT'S CALLED USE WAFFLE'S THREAD LIKE WE ALWAYS DO!!!!



I have made 21 threads in total as of now. Only 3 of them were directly related to Roux, and only 1 was partially related to Roux. Four threads. Sue me.


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## waffle=ijm (Aug 17, 2009)

guys Stachu has a point. These questions can be answered with a simple PM to Johannes.


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## Johannes91 (Aug 17, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> 3 would be solving either (for example) a yellow block or a white block (on L) first. Kind of like a opposite colour neutral cross.


That's still ambiguous. Is the D color fixed?


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## waffle=ijm (Aug 17, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > 3 would be solving either (for example) a yellow block or a white block (on L) first. Kind of like a opposite colour neutral cross.
> ...



no


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## jms_gears1 (Aug 17, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > 3 would be solving either (for example) a yellow block or a white block (on L) first. Kind of like a opposite colour neutral cross.
> ...



there is a choice between two colors for the D layer so if normally youd be fixed with white you then could use white or yellow


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 17, 2009)

You guys can think that I'm 'hating on' you all you want, but the thing is that I'm not. I'm just tired of seeing threads that can be answered, like Jules said, with a simple PM to someone. This applies to both Roux-related threads and non-Roux-related threads alike.


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## soccerking813 (Aug 17, 2009)

What about just fixed D color, but any L color? And matching blocks.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > 3 would be solving either (for example) a yellow block or a white block (on L) first. Kind of like a opposite colour neutral cross.
> ...



Umm, I never thought of that. I guess 3 would be fixed D colour, 4 would be D colour neutral, and 5 would be completely colour neutral.

Ok, so from now on, Roux related questions are asking in the "one question answer thread" or a PM to Waffle or Johannes.


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## waffle=ijm (Aug 17, 2009)

soccerking813 said:


> What about just fixed D color, but any L color? And matching blocks.



I'm opposite neutral. Black or Yellow on D and F isn't fixed.


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## jms_gears1 (Aug 17, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> You guys can think that I'm 'hating on' you all you want, but the thing is that I'm not. I'm just tired of seeing threads that can be answered, like Jules said, with a simple PM to someone. This applies to both Roux-related threads and non-Roux-related threads alike.



then why have a forum everything can be answered by a pm.

because then others can benefit from the info as well. 

~sorry mini for halfway hijacking this


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

Ok, so there are too many different ways of building the first block to remember. I guess all I really needed was the first and last one, thanks.



jms_gears1 said:


> ~sorry mini for halfway hijacking this



Don't be. We are getting discussion, which is good. And there are some good points being said, now we can all learn.


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## waffle=ijm (Aug 17, 2009)

Johannes91 had this a while back


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

So about 1.5-2 turns save?


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 17, 2009)

jms_gears1 said:


> Stachuk1992 said:
> 
> 
> > You guys can think that I'm 'hating on' you all you want, but the thing is that I'm not. I'm just tired of seeing threads that can be answered, like Jules said, with a simple PM to someone. This applies to both Roux-related threads and non-Roux-related threads alike.
> ...


No. Not everything can be answered by means of PM. At least not as easily.
For example, discussion of competitions, discussions of methods (1 per method or substep needed), hardware, etc. 
Pretty much the only things that can be answered by PMs are math-based and opinion-based questions, or asking for advice from a specific person.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> No. Not everything can be answered by means of PM. At least not as easily.
> For example, discussion of competitions, discussions of methods (1 per method or substep needed), hardware, etc.
> Pretty much the only things that can be answered by PMs are math-based and opinion-based questions, or asking for advice from a specific person.



Then we should have 1 ZZ thread, 24839 Fridrich threads, 1 Roux thread, 1 Waterman thread, 1 Heise thread, 1 Petrus thread?


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## Johannes91 (Aug 17, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> So about 1.5-2 turns save?


6.70 - 5.11 = *1.59*

So yes, but *only if you always solve the block optimally*. But you don't, so the saving could be more.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > So about 1.5-2 turns save?
> ...



Depending on which way you are counting moves, STM, HTM, or QTM.


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## Johannes91 (Aug 17, 2009)

FTM (which is the same as HTM) as I said in my first post in this thread.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

Johannes91 said:


> FTM (which is the same as HTM) as I said in my first post in this thread.



Oh sorry, I didn't see that. Thanks again, I think I'm done with this thread, so no more flaming posts from other members are needed.


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## jms_gears1 (Aug 17, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> Stachuk1992 said:
> 
> 
> > No. Not everything can be answered by means of PM. At least not as easily.
> ...



the reason the roux thread count has increased is because roux has incredible potential and there is a lot to learn. 

since not as many people use roux there arnt as many threads already posted from the time the forum opened, which means theres not as muh info. so of course we open our own threads when we need a question anwered, after using the search function, so that others that will have the same question will haveit answered. 

as to why we dont just use waffles thread or one thread is because theres a lot of unrelated stuff we must sift through to find that one thread we need.


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 17, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> Stachuk1992 said:
> 
> 
> > No. Not everything can be answered by means of PM. At least not as easily.
> ...


no. 
Like 5 ZZ
50 CFOP
5 Roux
3 Waterman
10 Heise
15 Petrus.

there have been more add-ons to methods like CFOP and Petrus, and thus new threads are needed.
If you were to actually think of a way to advance the method, then go for making a new thread.


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## jms_gears1 (Aug 17, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> Johannes91 said:
> 
> 
> > FTM (which is the same as HTM) as I said in my first post in this thread.
> ...



lol sorry didnt see the post before i wrote my novel :fp


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## waffle=ijm (Aug 17, 2009)

jms_gears1 said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > Stachuk1992 said:
> ...



don't worry. I'm going through each individual post tonight and find useful posts and collect them for easy access


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## jms_gears1 (Aug 17, 2009)

waffle=ijm said:


> don't worry. I'm going through each individual post tonight and find useful posts and collect them for easy access



cool thanks


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

jms_gears1 said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > Johannes91 said:
> ...



Haha, Don't worry, I enjoyed reading it, and it's true. We make Roux threads because the questions haven't been asked before that we know of.



Stachuk1992 said:


> there have been more add-ons to methods like CFOP and Petrus, and thus new threads are needed.
> If you were to actually think of a way to advance the method, then go for making a new thread.



Maybe we should have a sub-forum for each "main" method. That way if you needed help with _______ method, you could just go to the _______ sub-forum and look for threads


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## piemaster (Aug 17, 2009)

Hey! waffle's how to be sub 20 is up!


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

piemaster said:


> Hey! waffle's how to be sub 20 is up!



So I saw, I think I'll start doing what it says.

EDIT:  at using my sig but I capatilized Roux, didn't say method, and put the exact time as well as italicized it.


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## bwatkins (Aug 17, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> miniGOINGS said:
> 
> 
> > Stachuk1992 said:
> ...



Just let him have his thread...it really in the long run is not hurting anybody. What if you did wonder about color neutrality for Roux ? It would be highly inefficient to search through all of nearly 500 posts on waffles thread. I never though about this before, but it's an interesting topic, if it was in Waffles, i never would have read it, so im glad its here...in the end i dont think it's THAT big of a deal. It is nice to have a collection of ROUX DISCUSSION in one place, but its also nice, regardless of solving type, to have a large collection of CUBE RELATED MATERIAL all in one place, and that place is here on the FORUM! So let's not be so particular shall we...


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 17, 2009)

So do you support the sub-forum idea, bwatkins?


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 18, 2009)

bwatkins said:


> Stachuk1992 said:
> 
> 
> > miniGOINGS said:
> ...


because of all of this, I've decided to do a major update on the wiki.
It will be done probably by the end of the day.

It will include the folowwing:
-all tutorial links I can manage to find
-all one-step solves I can find
-EO algs
-EP algs (for 4b, and 4c separately at first, then eventually at once) -this will take a while
-a compilation of CMLL algs, and how I'd personally suggest recognizing them
-waffles 'how to get sub-20' post fragment.

Anything else needed? Besides block tips.

Also, making a Roux forum site. Be ready.

[/end 'hating' on mini. for now, anyway ]


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 18, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> Also, making a Roux forum site. Be ready.
> 
> [/end 'hating' on mini. for now, anyway ]



Yay for a forum site!

And I know that you're not hating on me personally. Can we be buds?


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## bwatkins (Aug 18, 2009)

Does it make sense to have 1 thread for Fridrich? Does it makes sense to have 1 thread for Petrus? Does it make sense to have 1 thread each for Waterman and Heiss? I think the clear answer is YES!!!...it would be wonderful to have a 5 thread forum, i think it would be totally applicable and convenient to use! (maybe some sarcasm implied). Why should be single out Roux to have a single thread...it's just as deserving as any of the other methods. It's awesome to use the search function and go directly to the SPECIFIC SUB TOPIC you are looking for...not a giant compilation of topic intertwined together, it just makes more user-friendly sense.

By the way i am not a Roux user...so i'm not just preaching because MY METHOD IS AWESOME...it just seems a little unpractical to use only 1.


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 18, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> Stachuk1992 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, making a Roux forum site. Be ready.
> ...


lol sure.
Ugh. I hope I can find a decent and free host.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 18, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> lol sure.
> Ugh. I hope I can find a decent and free host.



Yea, It would be awesome to have one forum dedicated to Roux-ness.


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 18, 2009)

It's made. Lemme just do some stuff before I release the site.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 18, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> It's made. Lemme just do some stuff before I release the site.



Cool. Oh and I like your sig.


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 18, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> Stachuk1992 said:
> 
> 
> > It's made. Lemme just do some stuff before I release the site.
> ...


Thanks, I guess...


Oh, and the forum is http://rouxdiscussion.forummotion.com
I'm still doing a lot of construction work, including changing like all of the images, so let's see how this goes.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 18, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> Thanks, I guess...
> 
> 
> Oh, and the forum is http://rouxdiscussion.forummotion.com
> I'm still doing a lot of construction work, including changing like all of the images, so let's see how this goes.



Yea, now when anyone sees a post by you, they lose the game too.


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## StachuK1992 (Aug 18, 2009)

miniGOINGS said:


> Stachuk1992 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, I guess...
> ...


pretty much. Please help the forum out while I'm doing maintenence work by actually posting, and copying stuff from speedsolving, everything you can from all of the threads.


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## miniGOINGS (Aug 18, 2009)

Stachuk1992 said:


> pretty much. Please help the forum out while I'm doing maintenence work by actually posting, and copying stuff from speedsolving, everything you can from all of the threads.



So I created an account, but I'm not sure what I should post.


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