# Roux - Opposite Blocks



## Cheese11 (Dec 18, 2011)

Hey everyone,

My friend recently showed me that during your first two blocks, you could do the opposite block and just do an R2 when you finish. 

I was fooling around with it and found that I could do this just as fast as a normal solve, about 80% of the time. I just have trouble recognizing CMLL.

Now with this I have two questions.

Do any of you (Who use Roux) use opposite blocks during a speedsolve?
Does anyone have CMLL recognition tips?


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## Kirjava (Dec 18, 2011)

Yah, I use it. About 1/20 solves use this technique, I only do it if the second block is really easy.
Athefre will come help explain how to recognise corners.


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## Schmidt (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm not much of a Roux user, but are you talking about making the right side and then a y2 and then do the right side again?? I'm a bit confused :confused: [ <- yeah that's the feeling] about the R2.


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## Cheese11 (Dec 18, 2011)

Schmidt said:


> I'm not much of a Roux user, but are you talking about making the right side and then a y2 and then do the right side again?? I'm a bit confused :confused: [ <- yeah that's the feeling] about the R2.


 
Not quite. But I'm not totally sure how to explain it. Someone wanna help me out?


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## Athefre (Dec 18, 2011)

As Kirjava said, it's useful when it's easy. Any other time, it's just the same thing with an R2 during LSE.

For the corners, the recognition is almost the same. You just "switch" whether the F/B colors in your pattern are opposite or same if they are on corners with opposite U/D colors.

Normal (Yellow corners): (Blue/Green at URF and ULB, Orange/Red at RFU and UBR)



Opposite block (Mix of yellow and white corners): (Blue/Blue at URF and ULB, Orange/Red at RFU and UBR)


See in the above case that the FUR corner and BUL corner have opposite U/D colors (white and yellow)? That means that you think of the Blue/Blue on them as opposite instead of same because, by creating that opposite block, you've switched the meaning of F/B colors (Blue and Green).


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## Cheese11 (Dec 18, 2011)

Athefre said:


> As Kirjava said, it's useful when it's easy. Any other time, it's just the same thing with an R2 during LSE.
> 
> For the corners, the recognition is almost the same. You just "switch" whether the F/B colors in your pattern are opposite or same if they are on corners with opposite U/D colors.
> 
> ...


 
Ahh, thanks. This helped so much.


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## 5BLD (Dec 18, 2011)

I use it fairly frequently, mostly when it's worth it but it doesn't save much time unless on really lucky cases. It's fun to experiment though. Recognition is a little hard though until you get your head round it, athefre explained the way I do it perfectly.


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## JonnyWhoopes (Dec 19, 2011)

I use this in two cases mostly:

First, when I can see a good opposite block in inspection. Second, when I accidentally use a different color than my first block. -_-
Recognition is pretty easy, just do what Athefre said.


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## Cheese11 (Dec 19, 2011)

5BLD said:


> I use it fairly frequently, mostly when it's worth it but it doesn't save much time unless on really lucky cases. It's fun to experiment though. Recognition is a little hard though until you get your head round it, athefre explained the way I do it perfectly.


 
I didn't people really used it at all. 
I normally fool around with it while I'm on the bus, just cubing casually.


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## MostEd (Dec 19, 2011)

NM blocks, i use this when practicing roux blocks, also i do the block on the left first sometimes since i do M' with my right


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## Schmidt (Dec 19, 2011)

Cheese11 said:


> Not quite. But I'm not totally sure how to explain it. Someone wanna help me out?


 


Athefre said:


>



So, in this /\ case, the L block is W B O G and the R is Y G R B?? 
Would it not have to be a very very VERY easy case to even bother?? The way I see it (if I'm correct) is that you solve 3 pieces of another color and then have to deal with a harder recognition for the last layer (like YB for UL and WG for UR when you have put 2 Y and 2 W corners correctly in place)


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## Kirjava (Dec 19, 2011)

Schmidt said:


> Would it not have to be a very very VERY easy case to even bother?? The way I see it (if I'm correct) is that you solve 3 pieces of another color and then have to deal with a harder recognition for the last layer


 
The recognition is easy. I have a few sub10s with non matching blocks.


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## Cheese11 (Dec 19, 2011)

I found that doing two look CMLL is wayy easier, so if one has trouble with recognition (Like me), just do two look.



Kirjava said:


> The recognition is easy. I have a few sub10s with non matching blocks.


 
Oh wow, I've gotten two sub 10's ever...


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## 5BLD (Dec 19, 2011)

Schmidt said:


> So, in this /\ case, the L block is W B O G and the R is Y G R B??
> Would it not have to be a very very VERY easy case to even bother?? The way I see it (if I'm correct) is that you solve 3 pieces of another color and then have to deal with a harder recognition for the last layer (like YB for UL and WG for UR when you have put 2 Y and 2 W corners correctly in place)


 
The recog ain't that hard, like Kirjava I've gotten a few sub-10s with it too. 
Practice with NM blocks for like an avg100, then suddenly it will 'click', just like colour neutrality, when you finally recognise by patterns than set colours. It's like that.

If you recognise by same/opposite stickers, then you'll be pleased to know it's exactly the same for recognition like half the time.

After a while of practicing I managed to add the opposite block pieces to my 'library' of second block pieces for each solve. You'll feel it when you get the feeling. Mind you, I stopped doing that for speedsolves now when doing averages as I'm not bothered about changing my solve now, just bothered about getting sub-10.


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## Renslay (Sep 11, 2012)

Okay, I need some help.

This is a CMLL with normal blocks.
CMLL
As you can see, it is E5. I recognise because the UBL-FUR colors are the same (yellow-yellow), and the FUL-UBR colors are opposite (blue-green).

However, with NM, I got this:
NM-CMLL
Here UBL-FUR colors are still the same and FUL-UBR colors are still opposite, despite they are green and blue. I think this is because I *should not* change the meaning of blue/green same-vs-opposite if they belong to the "same colored corners" (red-red), but I *should* change the meaning of blue/green same-vs-opposite if they belong to the "opposite colored corners" (red-orange).

This makes the NM-CMLL recognition far too complicate for me. Or did I missed something?

If I remember well, there is a description for color-neutral C*LL recognition, where you should check completely different stickers (instead of orange/red for orientation and bars for permutation in the example above). Do you know where is it? Is it worth to get use to it?


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## Athefre (Sep 11, 2012)

Renslay said:


> Here UBL-FUR colors are still the same and FUL-UBR colors are still opposite, despite they are green and blue. I think this is because I *should not* change the meaning of blue/green same-vs-opposite if they belong to the "same colored corners" (red-red), but I *should* change the meaning of blue/green same-vs-opposite if they belong to the "opposite colored corners" (red-orange).
> 
> If I remember well, there is a description for color-neutral C*LL recognition, where you should check completely different stickers (instead of orange/red for orientation and bars for permutation in the example above). Do you know where is it? Is it worth to get use to it?



Correct. If those stickers are the same, it's the case you think it is. If those stickers are opposite, change the meaning. And of course you only have to worry about mentally changing the stickers that belong on the F and B layers. You don't have to mess with the L and R stickers.

I'm not sure what you mean by color neutral recognition. If you mean NMCLL, the link is in my sig. Whether it's worth it or not, no one has used it enough in speedsolves to prove.


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## Renslay (Sep 11, 2012)

Thanks. I think I leave NMCLL out of speedcubing and using only in FMC and and fun-exploring stuffs.


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