# Polish Open 2007



## studzien (Sep 14, 2007)

Hello everybody!
Please check out the live results and live video streaming from the Polish Open 2007,
which will take place tomorrow from 9:00 AM CEST.

Live scoring and video streaming are available under following link:
http://polishopen2007.speedcubing.com.pl/

More informations about the competition and Polish Speedcubing Federation at:
http://speedcubing.com.pl

Best regards,
Polish Open organisation team


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## Worms (Sep 15, 2007)

thank you, it will be very interesting!!!


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## hdskull (Sep 15, 2007)

wait so rama's mom is there and he isn't ?


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## Sin-H (Sep 15, 2007)

Unfortunately, Rama's school did not let him go, as far as I know.


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## Rama (Sep 15, 2007)

No even worse my mom couldn't make it either... but Worlds I will be there with or without permission.

Ron sended an invitation to the worlds to my school and my mom is going to talk with my school.


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## hdskull (Sep 15, 2007)

Rama said:


> No even worse my mom couldn't make it either... but Worlds I will be there with or without permission.
> 
> Ron sended an invitation to the worlds to my school and my mom is going to talk with my school.



awesome, hhaha


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## pjk (Sep 15, 2007)

Rama said:


> No even worse my mom couldn't make it either... but Worlds I will be there with or without permission.
> 
> Ron sended an invitation to the worlds to my school and my mom is going to talk with my school.



Why does your school have rights of what you can do outside of school? It is really none of my business, I just find that really odd.


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## Erik (Sep 15, 2007)

So far I've seen some results
WR's: 2x2 avg: 3.92 by Łukasz Ciałoń (Poland)
4x4 avg: 58.15 by Mátyás Kuti (Hungary) 
MM avg: 1.96 by Mátyás Kuti (Hungary)
clock avg: 8.60 by Mátyás Kuti (Hungary)
sq-1 single: 13.56 by Gregorz Prusak (Poland)


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## Rama (Sep 15, 2007)

Well the main problem is, is that I had to skip friday because Arnaud had to leave The Netherlands early.

anyway, I like the results allready from the Polish Open.

13 seconds square-1!?


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## fleeting_penguin (Sep 15, 2007)

Congrats to Arnaud for making the finals of FMC.


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## Erik (Sep 16, 2007)

Poitr Kózka won Polish Open with 14.09 avg in the final.
Tomasz Żołnowski (14.36) and Ron van Bruchem (15.38) finished 2nd and 3rd.


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## pjk (Sep 16, 2007)

Wow, lots of amazing WR's.


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## KJiptner (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey guys Tim (cin) and me just came back. We've had a great time there, except for the fact that I screwed up my 2 blind attempts.

On his second attempt in the blind-finals Matyi got a 2:05 (or something) ... 
...
...
One-Handed


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## hdskull (Sep 16, 2007)

KJiptner said:


> Hey guys Tim (cin) and me just came back. We've had a great time there, except for the fact that I screwed up my 2 blind attempts.
> 
> On his second attempt in the blind-finals Matyi got a 2:05 (or something) ...
> ...
> ...



oh so he was trying to show off and doing it OH ? i was wondering why that solve was so slow. hahaha

does anyone have a video of that ?


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## joey (Sep 16, 2007)

hdskull said:


> KJiptner said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys Tim (cin) and me just came back. We've had a great time there, except for the fact that I screwed up my 2 blind attempts.
> ...



It's quite amusing that we think 2:05 is slow, when that would put you 10th in the world for 3x3 BLD single!

I tried BLD OH once, but I dropped the cube when I had permuted abotu 3 edges  I havn't tried it since!


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## DhuCerbin (Sep 17, 2007)

BLD OH : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m0GPEcGPVc


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## KJiptner (Sep 17, 2007)

joey said:


> It's quite amusing that we think 2:05 is slow, when that would put you 10th in the world for 3x3 BLD single!



Oh the time was 2:09, i didn't quite remember and the results weren't up when I posted. The funny thing is that Matyi would have won the Blindfolded-Finals even if he did that solve only


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## Erik (Sep 17, 2007)

As a suprise, this evening suddenly Gilles called me. He said they (Arnaud Clement Lars and him) were 20 min from Enschede (where I live) on their way back to poland. So they made a pitstop here to get some nice macaroni after a long car trip. Arnaud told me he had solves the first FMC in 20 moves but with only 2 corners twisted!!! Further they won about 17 kg of chocolate.
I'll leave Arnaud and the others to tell the rest since I don't know it all and it was their tournament of course


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## hdskull (Sep 18, 2007)

joey said:


> It's quite amusing that we think 2:05 is slow, when that would put you 10th in the world for 3x3 BLD single!
> 
> I tried BLD OH once, but I dropped the cube when I had permuted abotu 3 edges  I havn't tried it since!



well, it's matyas, 2:05 for matyas is different than 2:05 for the rest of us hahaha.


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## AvGalen (Sep 18, 2007)

I don't have the time to post anything more than my Fewest Moves solutions.

For the first scramble (qualification on saturday) I found a 13 move F2L. I used a few more moves to get a better last layer and got a 37 moves solution.

For the second scramble (final on sunday) I found an incredible solution of 20 moves that solved everything except 2 misoriented corners. With some cancellations I got a 33 moves solution, just 2 more than the World Record Holder. It also got me a National Record and 6th place at the rankings.

Scramble1: D2 U' R D' U2 L' D' R2 B F2 R2 B' F L' D' B2 F2 D' U B2 F' D2 B2 D2 L2
F2L in 13 (Arnaud): x y R2 F D F L2 B U2 R2 U F D2 F' U'
F2L in 13 (FURBDL): U2 R B R D2 L F2 U2 F R B2 R' F'
37 (Arnaud): x y R2 F D F L2 B U2 R2, x2 y D U' R U R' U2 R' F R F' D', y' R' F' L' F R F' L F, y2 F2 U' L R' F2 R L' U' F2 U'
37 (FURBDL: U2 R B R D2 L F2 U2, F B' R B R' B2 R' U R U' F', U' L' D' L U L' D L, R2 B' U D' R2 D U' B' R2 B'

Scramble2: D' F' D2 L B U2 L2 F' R U2 L2 D B F' D2 R2 D2 R D L2 U' L2 R2 B F'
Almost solved in 20: R' U F' D2 U2 L2 U' L B' L' D' B D2 B2 D2 B R D' R' D'
33: R' U F' D2 U2 L2 U', L B' L', D' B D2, B2 D2 B R D', U R' U' R U R', D R U' R' U R U' R' D2


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## tim (Sep 18, 2007)

Really great work, Arnaud. What's the optimal solution for solving two disoriented corners?

Does anyone have taken some pictures from the event? It would be really cool, if you could share them with us .


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## Erik (Sep 18, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> Scramble2: D' F' D2 L B U2 L2 F' R U2 L2 D B F' D2 R2 D2 R D L2 U' L2 R2 B F'
> Almost solved in 20: R' U F' D2 U2 L2 U' L B' L' D' B D2 B2 D2 B ** R D' R' D'
> 33: R' U F' D2 U2 L2 U', L B' L', D' B D2, B2 D2 B R D', U R' U' R U R', D R U' R' U R U' R' D2



Hey instead of R D' R'D', I found: x2 R2DR'U'RD'RFR'B2RF'R'B2R2U' 
Saved you another move 
I'd have to say thx to a certain person who made the that algo to skip OLL 
Btw, instead of x2 R2DR'U'RD'RFR'B2RF'R'B2R2U' cube explorer says: x2 U2 F2 R2 D' L' U' L U D R2 F2 (11f*)
btw, the optimal solution is 18 moves (R U' F B R2 L' F B' R2 F2 L' D' B2 U' F R2 B2 L (18f))


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## Worms (Sep 18, 2007)

anybody have the video of the square-1 WR???

thanks


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## pjk (Sep 18, 2007)

http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=PolishOpen2007

Lots of amazing records... very nice competition!

Arnaud, you are becoming very good at FMC!


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## gillesvdp (Sep 20, 2007)

Finally I have a proper internet connection.
It will take me a while before I catch up with all the posts on the forum.

That 13 seconds square-1 can be considered lucky if you consider a "cube shape square-1" lucky.
I think one of the scramblers did not execute the scrambles very well because Lars did not get the "cube shape square-1" but I did, but he was consistent with his mistakes apparently. :s

Anyway, Arnaud pointed out a very low propbability event: Mátyás beating me in the OH and me beating Mátyás in the 3x3.  

I am quite happy with my best new average in the 3x3 (16.38 seconds) but if you look closely at the times: 2 of them were 14.xx, 1 of them was 15.xx and 2 of them were 18.xx...Without that stupid stress on my 4th solve I could have done better.
But the result is still quite good. ^^

My report is underway. I am almost done with the transportation adventures of Friday. ;-)


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## DhuCerbin (Sep 20, 2007)

Gilles. I captured your sub-20 OH on the tape. If you interested I will try to convert it to some digital format.


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## Rama (Sep 20, 2007)

Me too Gilles and I weren't at the Polish Open....

I will convert it asap and then it's youtube time.


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## gillesvdp (Sep 20, 2007)

That sub20 was some sort of lucky: I did some edge control and luckily all the corners got oriented too. ^^

Anyway, a 4 second J-Perm is quite bad...


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## DhuCerbin (Sep 20, 2007)

Worms said:


> anybody have the video of the square-1 WR???
> 
> thanks



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzGe6owHStk


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## pjk (Sep 20, 2007)

gillesvdp said:


> Finally I have a proper internet connection.
> It will take me a while before I catch up with all the posts on the forum.
> 
> That 13 seconds square-1 can be considered lucky if you consider a "cube shape square-1" lucky.
> ...



Was the square 1 already in a cube shape after the scramble? And Lars didn't get the same scramble? What is that all about?


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## Rama (Sep 20, 2007)

Yeah, that ain't really ''cool''...


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## gillesvdp (Sep 20, 2007)

Well, it just means that the Square-1 is a hard puzzle to scramble.


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## KJiptner (Sep 20, 2007)

pjk said:


> Was the square 1 already in a cube shape after the scramble? And Lars didn't get the same scramble? What is that all about?




It wasn't in the cube shape, but only 2 turns away from it.


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## AvGalen (Sep 20, 2007)

Sorry Kai, but many people got not 1, but 2 easy scrambles.
1) Already cube shape
2) 2 moves away from cube shape

Lars, Clément and I didn't get any of those lucky scrambles.

And Square-1 is a very easy puzzle to scramble. If you reach the end of the scramble you have very likely done it correct!


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## ExoCorsair (Sep 21, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> Lars, Clément and I didn't get any of those lucky scrambles.



Why not?

Doesn't that violate a WCA rule?



> 4e)	*Competitors must solve the same scrambles per round.* At the main judge's discretion, scrambling algorithms in preliminary rounds may be randomly chosen from a pool of scrambles, for example to prevent cheating in large competitions.


 (http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#scrambling)

This clearly is not a preliminary round either; there was just one final round that was a mean of three.

What gives?


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## AvGalen (Sep 21, 2007)

Scramblers are not machines. Apparantly one (or more) of the scramblers made a mistake. The "good" thing is that he/she/they made the same mistake a lot of times.

I don't think there were different scrambles on the sheets.

The really bad thing is that this influenced the competition AND both World Records. The people that had the 0/2 moves scrambles got extremely lucky. The others had really bad scrambles!


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## masterofthebass (Sep 21, 2007)

Well yeah, scramblers cant' be relied on to be perfect, although they should be. Even for the regular cubic puzzles, scramblers sometimes get it wrong. I'm pretty sure at the US open, I noticed some 4x4 scrambles not the same. I probably could have found way more flaws if I wanted to, but it's obviously somewhat a problem, that I don't know if it can be fixed.


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## AvGalen (Sep 21, 2007)

It can be fixed!

At the Lyon Open I used 5 of my own cubes to do the 5 scrambles for regular 3x3x3 and for 3x3x3_oh. I did all scrambling for the final and checked all competitors scrambles with the reference cubes. I had more than enough time to perform all scrambles for the finals by myself and even to correct 2 wrongly scrambled cubes (scramble, compare, notice mistake, solve, redo scramble)

The only puzzle I am not sure that I could scramble perfectly is MegaMinx.


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## ExoCorsair (Sep 21, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> Scramblers are not machines. Apparantly one (or more) of the scramblers made a mistake. The "good" thing is that he/she/they made the same mistake a lot of times.



For all we know, the scrambles could have been intended to start at the cube shape or the two-move cube shape and the 'bad' scrambles were the ones that were not.


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## AvGalen (Sep 22, 2007)

That might have been the case (although unlikely), but that is not the problem. The problem is that some people had other scrambles. That is bad enough by itself, but the event AND the world record were influenced.


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## ExoCorsair (Sep 22, 2007)

Yes, I agree that that is the problem.

I posted at twistypuzzles, but the topic seems to keep digressing.
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7785


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## pjk (Sep 24, 2007)

Isn't there a diagram they can look at of what the scrambled puzzle supposed to look like? I find that very unfair that not all the competitors received the same scramble. Yes, scramble errors happen, but if there is a diagram to compare to, there is no explanation for a mis-scrambled puzzle. If people are messing up scrambles continuously (like for multiple competitors), then they need more practice before they do it for real.


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## Johannes91 (Sep 24, 2007)

No diagram for Square-1 or Megaminx.


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## AvGalen (Sep 24, 2007)

A simple solution is to have 1 reference puzzle for each scramble. If you need to scramble 5 Square-1's, just perform the scrambles on the reference Square-1's and check the scrambles for competitors against the reference scrambles.

I have done this for 3x3x3 and 3x3x3_oh finals at Lyon and I can guarantee everyone had the same scramble.


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## pjk (Sep 24, 2007)

Yeah, that works just as well. But why can't there be a diagram for square-1 or megaminx? I suppose the easiest way to do it is to just have a "base puzzle" to look off of.


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## ExoCorsair (Sep 24, 2007)

There are Square-1 applets written in Java. Those could be used, no?


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