# ANOTHER Possible Indiana Open?



## Jhong253 (Dec 16, 2008)

Hello all,

Yes, I know this has been only 2 days after the Indiana Winter Open. But I'm (seriously) thinking about organizing ANOTHER Indiana Open on either May or September. 

Keep in mind that this is NOT definite and I'm only in the stage of consideration (In other words, I do not have anything set _definitely_, like host site, etc). 

If I were to hold the competition in May or September, would you attend? 

(BTW, if this competition was going to take place, chances are I'd charge entry fees this time, probably $5 for first event (unless side event) and $2 for each additional event)


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## Kit Clement (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm from Michigan, and I really wish I could have attended this past weekend, but it was too hard for me because I had no place to stay there on my own. By May though, I'll be 18 and very willing to come if I'm free. September's right out though, I'll be in college with no car by then.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 16, 2008)

I was thinking of possibly trying to hold a competition in Indianapolis in June. I wouldn't do that if you were going to have one in Bloomington in May, though.


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## Bob (Dec 16, 2008)

Hrmmm, I'd probably go to Indianapolis. Much more easily accessible (Bloomington is sort of in the middle of nowhere)


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## Kit Clement (Dec 16, 2008)

Indy in June would be much more plausible for me as well.


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 16, 2008)

So Joe, how about we plan something like a competition in the Indy area in June, and then one in Bloomington in September?

And to be precise, my competition would most likely be in Fishers, which is a suburban town just a few miles northeast of Indy. Fairly convenient to drive to from the east or north; not quite as convenient from the airport (which is all the way on the opposite corner of Indy, about 40 minutes away). I haven't actually worked on reserving a venue yet, but we've been scoping out possible ones for months.


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## ShadenSmith (Dec 16, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> So Joe, how about we plan something like a competition in the Indy area in June, and then one in Bloomington in September?
> 
> And to be precise, my competition would most likely be in Fishers, which is a suburban town just a few miles northeast of Indy. Fairly convenient to drive to from the east or north; not quite as convenient from the airport (which is all the way on the opposite corner of Indy, about 40 minutes away). I haven't actually worked on reserving a venue yet, but we've been scoping out possible ones for months.




You have KOII's support.


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## Jhong253 (Dec 16, 2008)

Mike Hughey said:


> So Joe, how about we plan something like a competition in the Indy area in June, and then one in Bloomington in September?
> 
> And to be precise, my competition would most likely be in Fishers, which is a suburban town just a few miles northeast of Indy. Fairly convenient to drive to from the east or north; not quite as convenient from the airport (which is all the way on the opposite corner of Indy, about 40 minutes away). I haven't actually worked on reserving a venue yet, but we've been scoping out possible ones for months.



Great! I think that you and I should work this thing out with the timing and stuff. I wouldn't want the two to be too close to avoid any conflicts.

I've been searching around for places and the only two months that work for me during that time of year is May and September. And all venues in Bloomington are taken away pretty much from June to August for summer camps stuff, and I'm almost always out of town in those three months anyway. 

Right now, the best timing in Bloomington seems to be early May. I'm not sure about September because the venues (except a very unreliable one) don't want to plan September's stuff this early. 
I thought May would work better here -- I want to get the graduating class guys (like Phil) in before they departed to colleges. But again, I'm not 100% confident about either month. So I guess this whole thing depends on timing. I don't want to say definitely like May, June, or whatnot because I don't have any definites yet.


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## philkt731 (Dec 17, 2008)

I don't see a problem with haveing Joe's in May and Mike's in June, I think I would actually prefer that


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## Kit Clement (Dec 17, 2008)

I don't mind having the competitions all bingo bango either.


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## KevinK (Dec 18, 2008)

I'd love to come to any Indiana tournament. I've just got to convince my dad to take the five hour drive again.


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## Jhong253 (Dec 26, 2008)

Ok... it looks like the whole date thing is up in the air. I really don't want to get one in here when there are a bunch of competitions around in the same area -- meaning no one will show up to mine. I really don't want to say a date yet, but I have found couple venues that want to hold the competition in either month. Who here liked the library for the winter open? Who here thinks the library would be another good venue?


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## philkt731 (Dec 27, 2008)

Yeah it was really nice, especially since there are lunch places very near it and parents could do stuff in the library whil their kid competed if they wanted to


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## Mike Hughey (Dec 27, 2008)

I really liked that library - it was one of the few competitions I've ever been to where the room was plenty big enough, and as Phil says, it was close to eating places and convenient for parents with other kids. A very good venue, in my opinion.


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## KevinK (Dec 27, 2008)

The library was very good. Because it was close to restaurants, my Dad was able to get me pizza fast enough for me to finish eating just before BLD.


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## Jhong253 (Dec 28, 2008)

Ok... I was giving the date another thought. I now think that May is not a good option, given that there are plenty of other competitions going to be around and I don't think people will come to a town not even close to any interstate highways if there are that many competitions nearby. May is also another time of college and high school finals, so I don't think it's a good month for a competition.

Now, September though, has a risk in that people graduating (like Shaden and Phil) are likely not going to come. I don't want that to happen either. What do you guys think?


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## ShadenSmith (Dec 28, 2008)

jhong253 said:


> Now, September though, has a risk in that people graduating (like Shaden and Phil) are likely not going to come. I don't want that to happen either. What do you guys think?



I plan on going to school in Indiana, so having a tournament in September when I'll (hopefully) be living there would be much better for me.


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## Kit Clement (Dec 29, 2008)

Yeah, I'll be graduating, so I'll most likely not be able to come if it's held in September, but I don't think this'll be a problem for most people.


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## Jhong253 (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok... I have made the final decision. Unless something absolutely radical happens, I'll be organizing the competition in September. I just want to make sure beforehand though, that there will not be any other competitions around the area during that time (because if there are, people will not come here as it is a bit harder than other places to access).


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## JBCM627 (Jan 2, 2009)

September is also really far away, so I doubt you can say for sure whether or not there will be any other competitions in the area during that time.


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## Jhong253 (Jan 2, 2009)

hey -- as long as you, Carson, Mike, and Shaden aren't planning anything, there's just me left!


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## Jhong253 (Jan 8, 2009)

Ok... just another update... Venue doesn't seem to be a problem atm. Timers and equipment... more on that later. Fundings wise, it seems like I'll be charging entry and event fees (with the current economic slumps, it seems like no one is willing to donate  ) 

I need a good number of competitors planning to come (at least 20) before going any further. Only handful of people ever replied to the poll, and it's useless to organize a competition for less than 10 people. 
So if you are planning to attend, please let me know!


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## bichettereds (Jan 14, 2009)

Ohio here.. September would be good


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## ShadenSmith (Jan 14, 2009)

May isn't good for me.


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## Jhong253 (Jan 16, 2009)

Don't tell me only two people plan on coming... seriously, who plans to come? And I repeat again, I have decided that the competition will be held on September. 

I just got this idea... if there's enough demand, etc, I might make this a 2-day competition with almost all official events.


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## Bob (Jan 16, 2009)

If it were cheap enough, I would go, though it is not easy to get to the middle of nowhere (it is not very travel-friendly).


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## Jhong253 (Jan 20, 2009)

Hmm... let me get a count of those who plan to come... Shaden (Carson too?), Jim, Phil(?), Mike, the Ohio guy, me, Bob...

That might be enough for the start. Any more people planning to come?
I'm going to notify Brian as soon as a venue is secured.

Now, venue wise, who here would like to go to a different place for venue? Library or somewhere in Indiana University? Any requests for venues?


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 20, 2009)

I liked the library - I thought it was a GREAT venue!


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## Jhong253 (Jan 23, 2009)

Ok... I think based the enthusiastic replies (of one person) I am going to hold this one some time in early September weekend and make it a 2 day competition. I think the first choice of venue will be a local science museum (it's very close to the library). If that doesn't work out, then I'll probably go for the library (library for some reason doesn't like 2-day stuff).


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## isaacthecuber (Jan 24, 2009)

I think I can make it. It would be really great to have another one!


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## slncuber21 (Jan 27, 2009)

will this be in Indianapolis?
because if it is, then i can possibly go. its only like 4 hours away =D

awe, why cant we have it sooner!? lol i cant wait for september, but i have to ask my parents about it so dont count me in yet..


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## KevinK (Jan 27, 2009)

I can come. I also might be able to convince my brother to come, but he probably won't want to. I would also compete in more events if they were offered.


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## Mike Hughey (Jan 27, 2009)

slncuber21 said:


> will this be in Indianapolis?
> because if it is, then i can possibly go. its only like 4 hours away =D


No, it's in Bloomington - if Indianapolis is 4 hours away, then Bloomington is probably 5 hours away.

However, I'm hoping to have one in Fishers (northeast suburb of Indianapolis) in June.


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## Jhong253 (Jan 27, 2009)

KevinK said:


> I can come. I also might be able to convince my brother to come, but he probably won't want to. I would also compete in more events if they were offered.



I'm trying to get through with all the harassing approvals and stuff right now with the competition as 2-day thing. So... yes, I'd have to say more events will be offered.



slncuber21 said:


> will this be in Indianapolis?
> because if it is, then i can possibly go. its only like 4 hours away =D
> 
> awe, why cant we have it sooner!? lol i cant wait for september, but i have to ask my parents about it so dont count me in yet..



Well, where do you live (state wise)? Bloomington might actually be closer than Indy.


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## slncuber21 (Jan 28, 2009)

jhong253 said:


> KevinK said:
> 
> 
> > I can come. I also might be able to convince my brother to come, but he probably won't want to. I would also compete in more events if they were offered.
> ...



boring Illinois... lol


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## Jhong253 (Feb 1, 2009)

Boring Illinois? Hmm... I thought Indiana was boring enough, maybe I'm wrong 

anyway, I noticed that there's been quite a bit of discussion going on around here (or is there?) about live results and watching the competition live, etc. Now, I'm no expert on those type of areas, so if anyone wants to do anything of that sort at Indiana, please contact me!

Oh, before I forget... I'm thinking of $10 registration fee that covers any combination of 3 events and $3 per each additional event. Does this sound good to everyone?


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## KevinK (Feb 1, 2009)

slncuber21 said:


> jhong253 said:
> 
> 
> > KevinK said:
> ...



I'm from Illinois, too. Last time, the drive took about five hours, but it was worth it. I hope to see you there!

@joe: I'll be fine with paying the money.


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 1, 2009)

jhong253 said:


> Oh, before I forget... I'm thinking of $10 registration fee that covers any combination of 3 events and $3 per each additional event. Does this sound good to everyone?


$3 per additional event is pretty steep - are you wanting to discourage people like me from participating in every event?  If it's going to be 2 days, I could see this getting pretty expensive. The Ohio Open has 18 events; if you have the same selection of events, that would be $10 for the first 3, plus $45 for the rest - it's going to cost me $55 to do everything there - wow! Substantially more expensive than the US Open. I guess I would have to be selective then - maybe that's what you want. I guess that's understandable, if it's the way you want it to work.


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## JBCM627 (Feb 1, 2009)

Mike Hughey said:


> jhong253 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, before I forget... I'm thinking of $10 registration fee that covers any combination of 3 events and $3 per each additional event. Does this sound good to everyone?
> ...



Actually I'll probably cap it at $20 for the Ohio Open too, although have $25 get you a tshirt... I'm waiting for the shirts idea to be finalized before I do this though...

Joe, is there an entrance fee for the science center you want to hold it at too?


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## Jhong253 (Feb 1, 2009)

WHOAAAA Hold it there you people. First of all, I asked you guys if that registration fee sounded ok, I DID NOT SAY that fee was going to be the fees I was going to charge. Obviously no it will not be the fees as I would like to encourage people to participate as much as possible. 

Scrap the $3 per event idea. I'll probably make it $2 or $1, and I probably will end up giving discounts to those who are willing to judge, scramble, etc. But anyway, which sounds better, $15 + $1 per additional event or $10 + $2 per additional event?

Also, the science museum wise... everyone, keep in mind that the science museum DOES charge fees. However, if I were to hold it there, the starting registration fee would be part of the entry fee to the museum.
Although I have to say... they are reluctant in terms of hosting the competition with big discounts at the moment.

So... the competition might end up being somewhere else, which means the fees might change again too. Keep that in mind. I'm still on the VERY primitive stages of organization right now!


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## Mike Hughey (Feb 1, 2009)

jhong253 said:


> Scrap the $3 per event idea. I'll probably make it $2 or $1, and I probably will end up giving discounts to those who are willing to judge, scramble, etc. But anyway, which sounds better, $15 + $1 per additional event or $10 + $2 per additional event?



$15 + $1 per additional event = $30 for all 18 events (assuming the first 3 are free).
$10 + $2 per additional event = $40 for all 18 events (again assuming the first 3 are free).

I guess if you need that much money to run it, I'm okay with $10 + $2 per additional event - I like the idea of encouraging more people to enter, and a $15 base entry fee might keep people away. I'm okay with $40.

(I would really come at your original suggested price, but I might have considered not doing the silly little events that I don't care much about, like 3x3x3 speedsolve. )


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## Bob (Feb 1, 2009)

What will the registration fees be used for?


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## Jhong253 (Feb 1, 2009)

renting the space (if that is needed), TIMERS AND DISPLAYS (Biggest need here), blindfolds, equipment, potentially paying for a delegate to come (if that is needed), and Awards (obviously )


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## slncuber21 (Feb 7, 2009)

what events would be held on Saturday and what ones on Sunday?


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## slncuber21 (Feb 18, 2009)

so is this finalized yet?


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## Jhong253 (Feb 18, 2009)

slncuber21 said:


> so is this finalized yet?



I wish . Got a very rough site now. The venue should make their final decision in less than a week (and then the painful process of getting a delegate begins...  )


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## slncuber21 (Feb 18, 2009)

oh, gotcha.
could Jim come? he seems reliable


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## JBCM627 (Feb 18, 2009)

slncuber21 said:


> oh, gotcha.
> could Jim come? he seems reliable



I'm still not sure what my summer looks like... I need to figure that out before I commit to anything. September is pretty far away.


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## Jhong253 (Feb 19, 2009)

Ok, there is a site up. 

http://www.cubingusa.com/indiana/

It's really bad, and it's in a preliminary stage. Some might recognize this as a clone of the old site. Bryan just moved the old Indiana site files over, so the site still has some leftover content from the old site. IGNORE THE OLD STUFF (like the old food poll). 

Edit: Everyone, keep this in mind. The venue has not been confirmed completely (about 90% of the way through). There still is a _tiny_ chance of some crazy incident happening that might force me to change the whole thing big time (even as far as canceling... although that probably won't happen).

Keep in mind that the whole site is a rough draft, so the whole thing will get changed little by little. Criticize, comment, make fun of it, or scream on the site at the shoutbox (or here) so I can make the site better (ESPECIALLY SCHEDULE and the ugly framework I turned Jim's wonderful skeleton into).

Food poll, venue, hotels, location, etc etc etc will be updated as soon as possible. 

Much thanks to Brian for hosting the site (and Jim for the skeleton)!


If you want the live results stuff, try to convince Bryan to put it up there. I suck at html and I've asked him for too much help already.


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## Bryan (Feb 19, 2009)

jhong253 said:


> Much thanks to Brian for hosting the site (and Jim for the skeleton)!
> 
> If you want the live results stuff, try to convince Bryan to put it up there. I suck at html and I've asked him for too much help already.



Registration has been disabled. When it gets re-enabled, you'll be able to update your events if you have a CubingUSA.com account.


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## Jhong253 (Feb 19, 2009)

Bryan said:


> Registration has been disabled. When it gets re-enabled, you'll be able to update your events if you have a CubingUSA.com account.



Hmm, I still see the pre-registration script on there. Is it just me?


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## Bryan (Feb 19, 2009)

jhong253 said:


> Bryan said:
> 
> 
> > Registration has been disabled. When it gets re-enabled, you'll be able to update your events if you have a CubingUSA.com account.
> ...



I just politely scold you if you try to sign up.


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## Jhong253 (Mar 11, 2009)

More FYI...

1. Venue offered 2 possible weekends: September 12-13 or September 19-20. Venue website is here
Please reply as to which weekend works best for you. Of course, the final decision of the date will be made depending on when a delegate is available. *cough*

2. All pre-registered competitors and spectators coming with pre-registered competitors will be charged the museum entrance fee of $4.50 per person. This is the group fee -- this only applies to pre-registered competitors.

3. Due to some requirements that need to be fulfilled in order to hold this event, I'll need at least 15 people pre-registered three to four months prior to the event. I'll hold the event as long as there is a delegate present and there are enough people to make the event official. However, for those of you who buy air tickets, please wait until the date has been finalized. 

4. The hours have been confirmed: 9:30-5 on Saturday, 1-5 on Sunday. This unfortunately is the museum hours, and will likely not change. I'm still trying to convince the museum to add couple more hours on Saturday and Sunday, but this is likely not going to happen.

5. The proposed registration fee as of right now --
Pre-registered: $10 registration fee covering any combo of 3 events and museum entrance fee + $2 per additional event capped at $35-$30 depending on the number of people.
Non-registered: $10 registration fee covering any combo of 2 events + $2 per additional event without any cap. In this case the registration fee does *NOT* cover the museum entrance fee, and the museum entrance fee will no longer be the discounted price of $4.50.

As you all can see, pre-registering will cut down the cost dramatically -- #3 is the reasoning behind this.
The website will be re-updated with correct dates, etc when the final decision is made. As soon as the delegate is available, I'll let you all know.
@Bryan, please re-open the pre-registration.


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## Bob (Mar 12, 2009)

jhong253 said:


> 3. Due to some requirements that need to be fulfilled in order to hold this event, this competition will be held *only if there are at least 25 people pre-registered three weeks prior to the event*.



Have you run this by the WCA? If anybody plans on traveling for this competition, especially by air, this can be a problem. Tickets tend to be non-refundable unless you pay out the ass for them.


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## Jhong253 (Mar 12, 2009)

Bob said:


> jhong253 said:
> 
> 
> > 3. Due to some requirements that need to be fulfilled in order to hold this event, this competition will be held *only if there are at least 25 people pre-registered three weeks prior to the event*.
> ...



Ouch, I forgot about the air tickets. Thanks Bob.
I'll change that... Sound any better?


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## Bryan (Mar 12, 2009)

jhong253 said:


> Bob said:
> 
> 
> > jhong253 said:
> ...



Now you've just made all the people that travel by air by a last minute ticket. If you're going to hold a competition, hold it. If there's an issue with money, perhaps you need to find another venue that you can afford.


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## Jhong253 (Mar 12, 2009)

Bryan said:


> jhong253 said:
> 
> 
> > Bob said:
> ...



I know... There's not an issue with money. The museum just requires me to have a certain number of people 3 weeks prior to event. I said that the first time, but I changed it because of what Bob said to three months. Meh, how about this... I'll hold it no matter what as long as there are enough people to make this official.


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## Bryan (Mar 13, 2009)

jhong253 said:


> The museum just requires me to have a certain number of people 3 weeks prior to event.



OK, I thought it was a "You need to have a certain number of people to have enough registration fees to cover the cost of the museum". Not, "The museum wants a certain number of people....period."

I should start a "Stupid venues requests thread." I've been dealing with a lot.


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## JBCM627 (Mar 13, 2009)

Bryan said:


> jhong253 said:
> 
> 
> > The museum just requires me to have a certain number of people 3 weeks prior to event.
> ...



I wouldn't consider that too unresonable, given the museum is providing some workers and the space. If only a few people were to attend the event, it is appropriate that the museum would not want to donate their workers time on this.

I also doubt most people coming will fly, since I don't think you even can fly to Bloomington...

Edit: Confirmed, you can't fly to BMG on any regular basis. It also looks like some booking agents will assume you meant to fly to Bloomington, Illinois (which is BMI... *BMG is the one in Indiana*), and give you tickets to there... so be careful about ordering tickets.


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## Jhong253 (Mar 13, 2009)

JBCM627 said:


> Bryan said:
> 
> 
> > jhong253 said:
> ...



Yeah, you can't fly to Bloomington like you can to Indy. People who would be flying in would have to come to Indy and then come to Bloomington via shuttle that runs from Downtown Bloomington to Indy airport.

BTW, they are not donating workers... I've tried to persuade them (I still am) to donate some volunteers (museum has hundreds of volunteers -- I am one of them).

@Bryan, that is a stupid venue requirement. But... they do want to have some reasonable guarantee that their space is going to be used appropriately. The museum could rent out the space to birthday parties and stuff, which bring in 100s of dollars per party to the museum. Considering that they are charging me only $4.50 per competitor... I think I'll take that requirement. 

Museum wants to have a co-organizer besides me too...


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## Bryan (Mar 13, 2009)

JBCM627 said:


> I wouldn't consider that too unresonable, given the museum is providing some workers and the space.



If they're looking for a certain number of people, that's fine, they can ask for that. But to approve and then cancel the event if they don't have that commitment? That's ridiculous. They could've even stated that you need to guarantee $112.50 in museum entrance fees (25 people at $4.50 each). That's fine. 


http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10344


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## Bob (Mar 13, 2009)

jhong253 said:


> Museum wants to have a co-organizer besides me too...



If you can pay my trip, I will co-organize this, but I think there are much cheaper alternatives, like making Jim do it.


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## JBCM627 (Mar 13, 2009)

Bob said:


> jhong253 said:
> 
> 
> > Museum wants to have a co-organizer besides me too...
> ...



I'm still waiting on my living situation for this summer and next school year before agreeing to anything. If I'm living a dorm next year anyway, the weekend of the 19th is move-in. If not, things will be more complicated, and September is really far away. Most likely I will be able to at least delegate, although I don't want to agree yet. And although I don't mind working at the competition, I'd prefer not to co-organize.


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## Jhong253 (Mar 30, 2009)

Meh. Forget what I said about all that delegate stuff. Life actually wasn't so cruel this time. 

 !tneve siht rof etageled eht eb ot deerga sah 726MCBJ 
Barring unforeseen circumstances, of course...
The date will be... September 12-13.
I'm still waiting to hear from Tyson about getting this whole thing approved.

Just some FYIs...

I'm trying to convince a nearby hotel to partially sponsor this (HOTEL... use your logic here  ) Chances are this will not work out, but who knows?
If you are planning to fly in... you will have to fly to Indianapolis first, then ride a Bloomington Shuttle.
A *Children's* museum is hosting this, so be prepared for some loud noise and chaos. Just don't start a WWIII with them.


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