# Speedcube Design Discussion/Megathread (Discord Server for Designers!)



## Sion (Apr 22, 2020)

This is a general thread I wanted to create so we as a community could discuss the process of cube design and how it works. My hope is that this thread helps people learn and understand more about the process of how speedcube design works and what design elements are implemented to improve speedcube performance. I also want this thread to help inspire the creation of speedcube designs In the community as well.


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## Username: Username: (Apr 22, 2020)

Hmm... what is better for grip of the cube, frosted plastic or normal plastic?



Sion said:


> I've always preferred the feel of stickers, so i'd say glossy is better. Companies lean more to matte now mainly to make scuffs less visible, though at the consequence of making their cubes more slippery.



Eventually, companies make the material of the cube using a way lighter material and feel a bit too slippery.

Also, how did my cube drop in a solve, and it is made using frosted plastic?


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## Sion (Apr 22, 2020)

Username: Username: said:


> Hmm... what is better for grip of the cube, frosted plastic or normal plastic?




I've always preferred the feel of stickers, so i'd say glossy is better. Companies lean more to matte now mainly to make scuffs less visible, though at the consequence of making their cubes more slippery.


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## brododragon (Apr 22, 2020)

I think in some cases, glossy is bad. The Bell Pyraminx is extremely glossy and it's always slipping out of my hands during solves.


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## Sion (Apr 23, 2020)

brododragon said:


> I think in some cases, glossy is bad. The Bell Pyraminx is extremely glossy and it's always slipping out of my hands during solves.



Pyraminxes are always tricky to grip. Let's be honest. 


I know a couple companies make concavepyras, but I want to see if designers can make other gripping mechanisms.


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## Username: Username: (Apr 23, 2020)

Use a thin layer of rubber lol
So you don't lose grip of the cube while having only a thin layer of rubber on the surface of the cube.
It also makes the cube have a "premium" feel.



Sion said:


> how would you propose to prevent the rubber from discoloring?



this is just an idea lol, also "maybe" you should put some dye material, it is "maybe" possible, just depends on the rubber.


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## Sion (Apr 23, 2020)

how would you propose to prevent the rubber from discoloring?


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## brododragon (Apr 23, 2020)

Just finished my first center prototype!

I decided to 3D print because I don't really care about performance, and I can sand out imperfections when I do. I just did one center cap as a proof of concept. You assemble the pieces in picture 2 to look like picture 1, then superglue. There are 3 major problems:
1. It's too small. I need to scale it up. I'm probably going to fix this last, as it makes the print slower.
2. The 3rd piece in picture two had printing issues. If you look at this picture:

you can see the filament got pulled down by gravity while it was hot. To fix this, I'll simply flip the piece.
3. The hole is to small. this might not be an issue, but it seems to be having to much friction.
4. The rod is to small. It can easily be bent and broken.

I'm gonna fix these tomorrow, and hopefully I can move on to the printing the entire core pretty easily. Also, from now on, to make things simpler, (refer to the second picture), I'm going to call the 1st piece the base, the second piece the rod (and the disk attached the disk), and the 3rd piece the cap.



Sion said:


> I know a couple companies make concavepyras, but I want to see if designers can make other gripping mechanisms.


I'd like to see concave center pieces, as I believe they wouldn't ruin the feel, but make getting to home grip and staying there easier.


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## Sion (Apr 23, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Just finished my first center prototype!
> View attachment 11901View attachment 11902
> I decided to 3D print because I don't really care about performance, and I can sand out imperfections when I do. I just did one center cap as a proof of concept. You assemble the pieces in picture 2 to look like picture 1, then superglue. There are 3 major problems:
> 1. It's too small. I need to scale it up. I'm probably going to fix this last, as it makes the print slower.
> ...



the underside of the center seems rather flat. I wonder how cubies are going to glide over it.


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## brododragon (Apr 23, 2020)

Sion said:


> the underside of the center seems rather flat. I wonder how cubies are going to glide over it.


Wdym?


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## Sion (Apr 23, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Wdym?



In cubes, the undersides of centers are usually curved (whether derived cylindricaly or spherically). Yours seems to be flat on the underside. 


Did you make a base sketch for your cubies, or did you just make it on its own?


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## brododragon (Apr 23, 2020)

Sion said:


> In cubes, the undersides of centers are usually curved (whether derived cylindricaly or spherically). Yours seems to be flat on the underside.


Ohhh I see what you mean. I'm probably going to add a curve, this was just Testing the turning and assembly.


Sion said:


> Did you make a base sketch for your cubies, or did you just make it on its own?


I just made it in it's own. I'm scared that I'm going to make a sketch and it's going to have crucial flaws that are going to force me to entirely redesign, so I'm just working on the core until that works and hopefully, I can just add the pieces.


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## Sion (Apr 23, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Ohhh I see what you mean. I'm probably going to add a curve, this was just Testing the turning and assembly.
> 
> I just made it in it's own. I'm scared that I'm going to make a sketch and it's going to have crucial flaws that are going to force me to entirely redesign, so I'm just working on the core until that works and hopefully, I can just add the pieces.



Shoot me a Dm. Making cube sketches is very easy.


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## alexiscubing (Apr 23, 2020)

brododragon said:


> I think in some cases, glossy is bad. The Bell Pyraminx is extremely glossy and it's always slipping out of my hands during solves.


Exactly why I main the Mr.m. Even though frosted looks bad, it makes grip a lot better


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## brododragon (Apr 23, 2020)

Sion said:


> Shoot me a Dm. Making cube sketches is very easy.


PM'd.


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## brododragon (Apr 24, 2020)

Two iterations later, and it's almost ready for a full-on print:

There only problems are that the center is somehow too tall, the hole that the rod and disk go in is a bit too big (this is fine, just rattles), and the edge and corner have tiny symmetry issues. Also, I might make the rods connecting the different parts of the edges and corners a tad bit bigger. I already know how I'm going to do the core, so that should be good in a print or two. Otherwise, everything meshes great and turns fine!


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## Sion (Apr 25, 2020)

What do people think of having kinetic parts within cubies (ie, rollers, slides, spring-loaded faces and tracks, etc.) being a new innovation?


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## Etotheipi (Apr 25, 2020)

Sion said:


> What do people think of having kinetic parts within cubies (ie, rollers, slides, spring-loaded faces and tracks, etc.) being a new innovation?


That could be interesting, what do you have in mind more specifically?


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## brododragon (Apr 25, 2020)

Sion said:


> What do people think of having kinetic parts within cubies (ie, rollers, slides, spring-loaded faces and tracks, etc.) being a new innovation?


Something cool would be a little circular tunnel inside the centers with a ball bearing. Spring loaded turns would also be cool.


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## Etotheipi (Apr 26, 2020)

Theres nothing in the WCA regs about not have a cube with gears and other mechanic stuff right? We should design a 3x3 that solves itself without electric parts, then we can use it in comp and set WRs. And have them be not counted because witnesses will snitch.


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## brododragon (Apr 26, 2020)

Etotheipi said:


> Theres nothing in the WCA regs about not have a cube with gears and other mechanic stuff right? We should design a 3x3 that solves itself without electric parts, then we can use it in comp and set WRs. And have them be not counted because witnesses will snitch.


Nothing electric.


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## ProStar (Apr 26, 2020)

Etotheipi said:


> Theres nothing in the WCA regs about not have a cube with gears and other mechanic stuff right? We should design a 3x3 that solves itself without electric parts, then we can use it in comp and set WRs. And have them be not counted because witnesses will snitch.



If only that worked...


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## Etotheipi (Apr 26, 2020)

brododragon said:


> Nothing electric.


Yes.


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## Sion (Apr 27, 2020)

I had the idea of specially placed rollers in the corners and edges that would enhance reverse corner cutting. 

That said, a design implementing this would likely be highly experimental, and weight would need to be toyed with to make sure it isn't too heavy.


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## brododragon (Apr 30, 2020)

Sion said:


> I had the idea of specially placed rollers in the corners and edges that would enhance reverse corner cutting.
> 
> That said, a design implementing this would likely be highly experimental, and weight would need to be toyed with to make sure it isn't too heavy.


That would be awesome! I think spring-loaded turns would be cool, because they help with TPS and reduce finger strain.

This has almost certainly been thought up before, but what if you built a 2x2x3 around a 2x2/2x2x4 core? It would shape-shift, but be even layered.


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## Sion (Apr 30, 2020)

brododragon said:


> That would be awesome! I think spring-loaded turns would be cool, because they help with TPS and reduce finger strain.
> 
> This has almost certainly been thought up before, but what if you built a 2x2x3 around a 2x2/2x2x4 core? It would shape-shift, but be even layered.



So You mean an extension mod with a functional third layer? This is extremely possible, although I'm not fully sure how exciting of a solve it would be.perhaps if the opposite face had a babyface mod (a face that rotates independently from the rest of the layer) implemented, the solve would be far more challenging and dynamic.


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## brododragon (Apr 30, 2020)

Sion said:


> So You mean an extension mod with a functional third layer?


Yeah.


Sion said:


> perhaps if the opposite face had a babyface mod (a face that rotates independently from the rest of the layer) implemented, the solve would be far more challenging and dynamic.


So the baby face mod on the 2x3 face? Would it be next to the core or 1 layer down?

Another thing that you could do similar to this idea is made a 3x3x3 on a 2x2x2 core with the same extensional layer on all sides.


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## Sion (May 1, 2020)

It's crazy how much injection molding actually limits designers.

I can safely say that if mold split directions weren't an issue, speed cube designs would almost immediately become much more intense and significantly better performing. There would likely also be more variety too.


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## Sion (May 1, 2020)

I also want to see if we can get more people in this community designing speedcubes.

Here is a link to a tutorial my friend made.

Of course, if you want to take it a step further and make cubes that could be injection molded, let me know! I want to see what designs this community can come up with.









Designing Speed Cubes


Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.




www.youtube.com


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## Sion (May 1, 2020)

I'm making a discord server for speedcube designers and aspiring speedcube designers, if anyone's interested:









Join the SpeedCube Designers Server Discord Server!


Check out the SpeedCube Designers Server community on Discord - hang out with 12 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.




discord.gg


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## brododragon (May 1, 2020)

Sion said:


> It's crazy how much injection molding actually limits designers.
> 
> I can safely say that if mold split directions weren't an issue, speed cube designs would almost immediately become much more intense and significantly better performing. There would likely also be more variety too.


What are mold splits directions? Just how they split the mold to get the plastic? How does that effect the shape they can make?

Also, another puzzle idea (just a shape mod of a 2x3x3). What if you took a 2x3x3 and reused void cube internals to make it into two floppy cubes seperated by a complete void layer?

Lol the 3D is trash but whatever.


Sion said:


> I'm making a discord server for speedcube designers and aspiring speedcube designers, if anyone's interested:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool!


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## Sion (May 1, 2020)

What I mean is making molds that don't undercut. undercuts are where the mold has an angle to which prevents the molded part from leaving the mold.


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## Sion (May 1, 2020)

If anyone has an interest in designing speedcubes, please join the server. I want to start a community focused around designing wca speedcubes. It's a small niche, sure, but imagine how innovative we could be as a community!


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## brododragon (May 2, 2020)

Sion said:


> If anyone has an interest in designing speedcubes, please join the server. I want to start a community focused around designing wca speedcubes. It's a small niche, sure, but imagine how innovative we could be as a community!


I don't have discord but I could probably persuade my mom to let me get it. The problem is that she works a lot so I only have a short period of time.

Is it possible to mod the centers back into a void cube?


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## Sub1Hour (May 2, 2020)

brododragon said:


> I don't have discord but I could probably persuade my mom to let me get it. The problem is that she works a lot so I only have a short period of time.
> 
> Is it possible to mod the centers back into a void cube?


Technically you can just put the core of a normal 3x3 into a void cube and but the centers in so yes.


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## brododragon (May 2, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Technically you can just put the core of a normal 3x3 into a void cube and but the centers in so yes.


I mean mod in the centers so there is still no core.


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## Sub1Hour (May 2, 2020)

brododragon said:


> I mean mod in the centers so there is still no core.


Just put in center pieces or maybe a 1x1 in each hole?


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## brododragon (May 2, 2020)

Sub1Hour said:


> Just put in center pieces or maybe a 1x1 in each hole?


how would they stay?


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## Sion (May 2, 2020)

brododragon said:


> how would they stay?



Easy.Get a void cube, try to get a 3x3 core inside, screw centers into the core. That said, this is extremely impractical,since the voidcube mechanism limits all corner cutting for the most part.


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## brododragon (May 2, 2020)

Sion said:


> Easy.Get a void cube, try to get a 3x3 core inside, screw centers into the core. That said, this is extremely impractical,since the voidcube mechanism limits all corner cutting for the most part.


I mean with out inhabiting the center space.


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## Sion (May 2, 2020)

brododragon said:


> I mean with out inhabiting the center space.



Such mechanisms do exist, such as oskar's treasure cube. The treasure cube, however, has the added functionality of having one face open up for something inside. 

I do recall some video of a rail cube, which had no core whatsoever without the treasure chest feature, but it looked pretty awful performance wise.


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## brododragon (May 2, 2020)

Sion said:


> Such mechanisms do exist, such as oskar's treasure cube. The treasure cube, however, has the added functionality of having one face open up for something inside.
> 
> I do recall some video of a rail cube, which had no core whatsoever without the treasure chest feature, but it looked pretty awful performance wise.


Hmm... Couldn't seem to find it, but that's just what I need. I can just take out the M-slice and it'll turn into a cool double-floppy thing. I guess what I can do is just do the two centers on the void cube doing the parts of the treasure mod that don't have the detachable face and take out the M-slice edges.


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## brododragon (May 4, 2020)

Ooh, here's an idea: What if opposite screws on a cube were somehow controlled together. What I mean is, say you screw white, yellow would tighten along with it. I think this wouldn't be too hard, as opposite screws are perfectly parrellel to each other and are perfect aligned. There are kinks to work out (how would you unscrew one too set it up, ect.) but I just want to throw this idea out there before I forget.


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## Sion (May 19, 2020)

Hello designers!

I just wanted to check in on the speedsolving thread to see what you were all up to


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## brododragon (Jun 2, 2020)

Can anyone link me a GAN Tool model?


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## Sion (Jun 17, 2020)

If you go on onshape, go onto the public document search and look up "Speedcube Base Design", you will find two simple files that contain a lot of the basic piece structure for speedcubes. 


They do the bulk of the basic structure work for you and allow you to do whatever you please to them.

Design one is flat, Design two is skirted.


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