# Permutations



## ColdbuffeT (Aug 8, 2007)

Hey guys, 

I think I've got orientation down and now I'm a little stuck. I don't quite fully understand macky's explanation. I was just wondering if you guys could kind of explain to me in "baby" terms of how to do the permutation stage. I know the cycle algorithm thingo (eg. 123 means 1 goes to 2, 2 goes to 3 and 3 goes to 1) and that's basically all I understand from Macky's guide. And if it helps, I know all 21 permutations to solve the cube normally.

Thanks.


----------



## hdskull (Aug 8, 2007)

I've barely started recently also, and macky's guide might be kinda confusing to noobs, so i played around with the cube myself and figured somethings out.

first for permutation, there are restricted set up moves, (for corners only U and D can have 90 degree turns, all other faces have to be turned 180(F2,L2,R2,B2), for edges only L and R have to be 180 turns (R2 L2) ). if you don't follow it then you will mess up the orientation.

then, for the cycles. i believe you know that if it's (12345), then after u cycle 123 it becomes 145, all you need to use are the 3 cycle algs for corners and edges(A and U perms.)

the PLL algorithms don't really come useful unless you get a parity case. (i didn't finish reading mackys guide, i finished the orientations, and got lazy ). and the only PLLs you can use on faces other than U and D are N, V, Y, and H-perms, everything else can't be used(i believe), because they mess up the orientation. I belive parity cases are solved by intuition, just imagine in your head where the pieces go. and i don't know if the (R' F R F') x 3 algorithm is in macky's guide or not but, that's useful sometimes, if it's not in his guide mess around with it see how it works.

hope this helps.

btw, i still haven't attempted a solve it, cuz i can't really get the memorization done, and if anything i said is wrong please feel free to correct me cuz i'm a noob at BLD haha


----------



## CorwinShiu (Aug 8, 2007)

Permutation is a little tricky and i had to figure some things out myself. So you want to set up all the pieces on either U or D. Corners can only be set up using the UDF2B2R2L2. Edges can only be set up using UDFBR2L2. 

Examples: 
(1542) -corners-

So First you want to set up 154. 1 and 4 are on U face, so we should set up on U. Set-up moves are D'B2. Now that they are on U face, cycle them so 1 becomes the 5, 5 goes to 4, and 4 goes to 1. Now reverse set-up moves:B2D. Now you have to cycle (12), which is a cycle of 2, and needs a pair or is a parity. You leave this for now.

(1 12 5 6) -edges-

So for this case (normally they are not so small), you once again need to cycle them on U or D. I would set-up (1 12 5) with U F R2. Then, cycle them so 1 to 12, 12 to 5, 5 to 1. Once you do that, undo setup moves with R2 F' U'. Now you are left with (1 6). Once again, this is a parity or a cycle of 2. 

Parity (16)edges, (12) corners.

Parity is the hardest part in my opinion. You use PLL algorithms to fix these. From my experiences, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you cannot swap corners straight across on non-UD faces, and edges cannot be swapped diagonally on RL faces. 

To fix Parities, you swap both of them separately (T perm, H perm) or simultaneously. This one is easy so we can do it all at once. Setup moves: U'B'. Then do a T perm, reverse setup moves, BU.

I hope this helps!


----------



## AlexandertheGreat (Aug 9, 2007)

Also, when your permuting edges you can do that on the F or B faces if that's easier.

For example, if I have (3 8 5) I can do U2 x (U-Perm) x' U2. 

That helps me a lot when I have cycles for EP with edges in the middle layer.


----------



## ColdbuffeT (Aug 9, 2007)

CorwinShiu said:


> Permutation is a little tricky and i had to figure some things out myself. So you want to set up all the pieces on either U or D. Corners can only be set up using the UDF2B2R2L2. Edges can only be set up using UDFBR2L2.
> 
> Examples:
> (1542) -corners-
> ...



When you say 3 edge cycle and 3 corner cycle, can I use U perms and A perms?

Thanks for the responses guys.


----------



## CorwinShiu (Aug 9, 2007)

ColdbuffeT said:


> When you say 3 edge cycle and 3 corner cycle, can I use U perms and A perms?
> 
> Thanks for the responses guys.



Yeah, U and A perms for 3 cycles.
2 cycles is a little bit different. Edges are Z and H. Corners is E, H + U2, and some non-PLL algorithms.


----------



## AlexandertheGreat (Aug 10, 2007)

some useful corner permutations:

(1 5)(2 6) L'B' (R'FRF')*3 BL
(4 8)(2 6) LB' (R'FRF')*3 BL'
(1 6)(4 7) BLF' (RUR'U')*3 FL'B'

and of course the ever useful:
(1 3)(2 6) (R'FRF')*3


----------



## ColdbuffeT (Aug 10, 2007)

That's great, thanks man.


----------



## dbeyer (Aug 18, 2007)

What I never really understood, is why do the orient first people, orient the 

Orient on the L/R faces of the E slice? F and B lead to better setups, I've always felt that way, and some, such as Leyan Lo have come to realize that as of recently (Last 6 months)


----------



## hait2 (Aug 18, 2007)

yeah, I wish I was taught to orient on F&B faces..
too lazy to switch now TT;;


----------



## CorwinShiu (Aug 18, 2007)

dbeyer said:


> What I never really understood, is why do the orient first people, orient the
> 
> Orient on the L/R faces of the E slice? F and B lead to better setups, I've always felt that way, and some, such as Leyan Lo have come to realize that as of recently (Last 6 months)



I thought that before, but when I set-up on F/B, we use R/L as setup moves. I use second generation edge cycles, which start with R turns. Thus I find it more confusing to undo. Well I've only done it a couple of times, I'll practice both the next few days and see which one I like better. I don't think it should have much impact on your solve, besides going for the easier orientation.


----------



## dbeyer (Aug 21, 2007)

Seriously in ACube the F/B faces on the E slice are designated as the oriented sticker ... I don't know why others designate the L/R faces as the orientation rule of thumb.

Really, either way it works, you don't even need to orient. There are methods, such as commutators, or the more braindead algs that can be used to solve with out any orientation. You are memorizing more with orientation, but it's less random.

Later,
Daniel Beyer


----------



## CorwinShiu (Aug 22, 2007)

dbeyer said:


> Seriously in ACube the F/B faces on the E slice are designated as the oriented sticker ... I don't know why others designate the L/R faces as the orientation rule of thumb.
> 
> Really, either way it works, you don't even need to orient. There are methods, such as commutators, or the more braindead algs that can be used to solve with out any orientation. You are memorizing more with orientation, but it's less random.
> 
> ...



I don't exactly get what your saying. Can you explain or give me a link? 
-New blindfold cuber-


----------

