# 3x3x3 relays as an official event?



## BlackStahli (Jun 13, 2012)

Yeah, so I think 3x3 relays should be a WCA event. My reasoning is that since there's a multi-bld event, why not have a 3x3 relay event? 
My thoughts on if this really does become a WCA event:
Because inspection of the cubes to know what to do takes much less time than memorizing the cube in a multi-bld event, there should be some sort of bonus system that gives the competitor a better score when they bring more cubes. (Say, like -2 seconds for each cube the competitor uses)

By the way, I'm not completely serious about this idea. Sure, it may sound stupid to some, but I'm interested in what you guys think about this proposed event. I'm just bringing it up for open discussion, seeing if you guys would like to do relays in actual competitions. 
I haven't seen any recent posts about this, so I thought I'd bring it up. Sorry if there is already D: I'm kinda new here, so yeah :/


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## tx789 (Jun 13, 2012)

will it have a set number of cub or be like multi bld


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## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Jun 13, 2012)

It's never a good idea to title a thread "WCA etc." then start the paragraph with "Yeah, so I think..", even if it is meant to be a discussion thread.

There's a one-handed 3x3 event too, should we table a proposal for one-footed 3x3? I'm not disagreeing with you or anything, I think having a 3x3 Relay event would be neat but you need a stronger case than that.


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## TMOY (Jun 13, 2012)

BlackStahli said:


> Yeah, so I think 3x3 relays should be a WCA event. My reasoning is that since there's a multi-bld event, why not have a 3x3 relay event?


Well, you know, 3^3 mutiBLD is there because it requires additional skills compared to single BLD. On the contrary, everybody who can speedsolve one single cube can speedsolve as many as he wants in a row, and that kind of relay event would most probably just turn into a contest of how many cubes you can get your hands on...


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## Skullush (Jun 13, 2012)

Idea, similar to multiBLD, time limit is 1 minute per cube, 10 minute cap. Interesting.

But the problem is, this is no difference in skills required from 3x3 speedsolve. The winner would be whoever is best at 3x3.

But then again, there is a difference between this and 3x3 speedsolve. Little inspection (relative to the number of cubes), having a constant 10-minute flow throughout the entire thing... Whether this difference is significant, however, I don't know.


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## BlackStahli (Jun 13, 2012)

Well, for multi-BLD the competitor memorizes all the cubes at once, then solves them all at once, no pauses in between. For 3x3 relays, the competitor can be given a set amount of time to inspect each cube, and then solve them all at once. Some memorization would be crucial here for a fluid and fast solve, but mostly different from the kind used in BLD.


Hyprul 9-ty2 said:


> It's never a good idea to title a thread "WCA etc." then start the paragraph with "Yeah, so I think..", even if it is meant to be a discussion thread.


Yeah, sorry about that. I'm just afraid that all the members here that have been here for a long time might call me a noob, etc. because I really wasn't sure if this was already discussed among the cubing community before, and so I sound humble, not arrogant, since I probably am not the first one with the idea of making it an official event.


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## jla (Jun 13, 2012)

Skullush said:


> Idea, similar to multiBLD, time limit is 1 minute per cube, 10 minute cap. Interesting.
> 
> But the problem is, this is no difference in skills required from 3x3 speedsolve. The winner would be whoever is best at 3x3.
> 
> But then again, there is a difference between this and 3x3 speedsolve. Little inspection (relative to the number of cubes), having a constant 10-minute flow throughout the entire thing... Whether this difference is significant, however, I don't know.



After reading this, I'm starting to get really interested...


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## kinch2002 (Jun 13, 2012)

Skullush said:


> Idea, similar to multiBLD, time limit is 1 minute per cube, 10 minute cap. Interesting.


Have you thought of the simple maths behind your figures? Some people would be bringing 60 3x3s to a competition. I thought bringing 20+ for multibld was bad enough


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## BlackStahli (Jun 13, 2012)

kinch2002 said:


> Have you thought of the simple maths behind your figures? Some people would be bringing 60 3x3s to a competition. I thought bringing 20+ for multibld was bad enough



Ahaha. Really? 60?  With the 10 minute cap, I doubt you can sub-10 each one with no pauses for 10 minutes straight , although Feliks can probably breeze through it easy.


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## Kian (Jun 13, 2012)

The words "proposed" and "WCA" should be swapped. The meaning is entirely different.

On topic, this is silly. It is an event which tests no different skill from 3x3 speedsolve. I see no reason for it to be an official event.


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## Ranzha (Jun 13, 2012)

Kian said:


> The words "proposed" and "WCA" should be swapped. The meaning is entirely different.
> 
> On topic, this is silly. It is an event which tests no different skill from 3x3 speedsolve. I see no reason for it to be an official event.



I agree with you, but not because of a lack of new skills being introduced.
An analogy: 3x3 relays is to 3x3 speed as MBLD is to BLD. What skills does one possess to do MBLD and not BLD? The only logical thing I can deduce is sheer amount of information to process. This is the same for relays, except the memorisation portion doesn't come into play. Relays institute endurance and transition from cube to cube, something that does indeed cost time and can hinder focus.
The main reason I wish this not be added is that if the scoring system is like MBLD, the people with the fastest averages now will dominate over there too, invariably. Back to the 60 cubes argument, I'd guess 50, but it's still weird to see one competitor supplying 50 cubes for himself/herself.

EDIT: Also, what sets 3x3 relays at a higher significance to be added than any other proposed event (Skewb; Team BLDp; 2x2 BLD; Gigaminx blind, underwater, while skydiving, with one foot, in a dress; etc.)


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## Hyprul 9-ty2 (Jun 13, 2012)

2 people have now mentioned One Foot 3x3 solving. Can I make a thread now?


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## Carson (Jun 13, 2012)

Would you want to scramble for this event?


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## Skullush (Jun 13, 2012)

Carson said:


> Would you want to scramble for this event?



There are lots of events that I wouldn't want to scramble for


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## god of rubic 2 (Jun 13, 2012)

BlackStahli said:


> Ahaha. Really? 60?  With the 10 minute cap, I doubt you can sub-10 each one with no pauses for 10 minutes straight , although Feliks can probably breeze through it easy.



Feliks did a 42 cube marathon in 7:17 if I recall correctly at a meetup


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## 5BLD (Jun 13, 2012)

^And that's not sub-10. However I think it's fairly easily possible considering how little some have to plan in inspection. I doubt I would be able to do more than 10 solves in a row consistently sub-10, because I use a lot of my inspection time, but maybe for CFOP you use less...

On top of this, I think bringing the scale of number of 3x3s we would have to bring it's ridiculous...

But if we make it for say number of cubes in 1:30 then it's sorta reasonable.



Hyprul 9-ty2 said:


> 2 people have now mentioned One Foot 3x3 solving. Can I make a thread now?



If you have techniques for it, go ahead.


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## Noahaha (Jun 13, 2012)

I would rather see an event that requires different skills like a 2-5 relay. Then you see who's good at many events.


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## ThomasJE (Jun 13, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> I would rather see an event that requires different skills like a 2-5 relay. Then you see who's good at many events.



That would be better. Being good at 3x3 requires not nearlt as much skill as being good at lots of events. But, we have 2-4, 2-5, 2-6 and 2-7 relays. What one do we pick? 2-7 could be challenging to organise with the 10 minute Stackmat limit, while also timing inspection.


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## RNewms27 (Jun 13, 2012)

BlackStahli said:


> Ahaha. Really? 60? although Feliks can probably breeze through it easy.



That's the thing. Maybe a 2 minute limit would be suffice. At a rate of 6 cubes per minute for top cubers, there would be 12 solves. It still seems like a large amount, but it is better than 60. It is also nice to have an event that has each person complete the round in 2 minutes.


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## cubenut99 (Jun 13, 2012)

NO, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the 3x3 event?


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## 5BLD (Jun 13, 2012)

cubenut99 said:


> NO, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the 3x3 event?



NO, that wouldn't defeat the purpose of the 3x3 event


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## Mudkip (Jun 13, 2012)

It really does sound like an enjoyable event.
The number of cubes could be set, or at least limited, to prevent competitors from bringing too many.


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## TMOY (Jun 13, 2012)

Noahaha said:


> I would rather see an event that requires different skills like a 2-5 relay. Then you see who's good at many events.


Unfortunately no. We would only see who's good at the biggest cube of the relay.


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## 5BLD (Jun 13, 2012)

TMOY said:


> Unfortunately no. We would only see who's good at the biggest cube of the relay.



Absolutely. The larger the relay, the less 3x3 counts, and this sorta weakens the argument that 2-n (4,5,6,7, whateva) relays are better than 3x3 relays because we are overrepresenting 3x3 and not showing your all round skill if we had all-3 relays. The contrary happens in 2-n relays. For example, I am fast at 3x3 but when doing a relay it's rendered almost negligible because of such longer times for other cubes. Especially on -7 relays where even the 3x3 stage on the 777 counts for little.

Maybe we could have relays where each cubesize was equally represented. This is subjective though... For me it'd be 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-3-3-3-3-3-4. Thinkinh about this, actually it's kinda silly.

What's wrong with an event which doesn't require you to have many different skills?


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## Czery (Jun 13, 2012)

5BLD said:


> Absolutely. The larger the relay, the less 3x3 counts, and this sorta weakens the argument that 2-n (4,5,6,7, whateva) relays are better than 3x3 relays because we are overrepresenting 3x3 and not showing your all round skill if we had all-3 relays. The contrary happens in 2-n relays. For example, I am fast at 3x3 but when doing a relay it's rendered almost negligible because of such longer times for other cubes. Especially on -7 relays where even the 3x3 stage on the 777 counts for little.
> 
> Maybe we could have relays where each cubesize was equally represented. This is subjective though... For me it'd be 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-3-3-3-3-3-4. Thinkinh about this, actually it's kinda silly.
> 
> What's wrong with an event which doesn't require you to have many different skills?



I have twenty lanlan 2x2 in my closet in case you are interested. 

On Topic: 

How about non-cube relays like pyraminx, megaminx, sq1, clock.


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## ben1996123 (Jun 13, 2012)

this is a stupid thread because its obvious its not going to get added. even something sensible like skewb wasn't added, so this definitely won't be.


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## 5BLD (Jun 13, 2012)

Are you in UK? I would be actually interested in buying them.

On: How would we sort out inspection if we had relays?


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## BlackStahli (Jun 13, 2012)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> EDIT: Also, what sets 3x3 relays at a higher significance to be added than any other proposed event (Skewb; Team BLDp; 2x2 BLD; Gigaminx blind, underwater, while skydiving, with one foot, in a dress; etc.)


Lol in a dress. I think it's only significant because 3x3s are among the most available of puzzles, but other than that not really. If I had the ability to consider which events are official, I'd consider them all in order of how popular they are among cubers. 



RNewms27 said:


> That's the thing. Maybe a 2 minute limit would be suffice. At a rate of 6 cubes per minute for top cubers, there would be 12 solves. It still seems like a large amount, but it is better than 60. It is also nice to have an event that has each person complete the round in 2 minutes.


I think 2 minutes would be too short, since even in the luckiest cases with the fastest cubers, I doubt they will surpass 20 cubes. Also, with the number of possible results, you might end up seeing like a 5-way tie at 12 solves or something between Feliks, Rowe, Michal, etc. 10 minutes should be good enough.


Czery said:


> How about non-cube relays like pyraminx, megaminx, sq1, clock.


Eh, 3x3 seems to be the most extensive event, with official ones including BLD, OH, feet, and FMC, so why not build on that?


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## 5BLD (Jun 13, 2012)

10 minutes is good enough? Most of us, even those who are fast don't even own that many to use up the full 10 minutes.


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## BlackStahli (Jun 13, 2012)

Good point. Maybe it should just be a time limit of 2 minutes, but then there's gonna be a lot of ties....
My solution to reduce the number of ties is to rank the competitors by number of solved cubes first, then the total solve time (they may stop before the 2 minute mark). If they end up attempting another 3x3 but don't finish it by the time the 2 minutes are up, then the number of cubes solved will be counted and the solve time will be 2 minutes.

Is it just me, or has this already been established for multiBLD? :/


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## RNewms27 (Jun 14, 2012)

BlackStahli said:


> Good point. Maybe it should just be a time limit of 2 minutes, but then there's gonna be a lot of ties....
> My solution to reduce the number of ties is to rank the competitors by number of solved cubes first, then the total solve time (they may stop before the 2 minute mark). If they end up attempting another 3x3 but don't finish it by the time the 2 minutes are up, then the number of cubes solved will be counted and the solve time will be 2 minutes.
> 
> Is it just me, or has this already been established for multiBLD? :/



I believe it was already assumed it would go from # of cubes to solve time. MBLD rules. Basically the same concept, but much shorter and, in my opinion, much more interesting than having memorization before a solve.

I would recommend not having 20 cubes possible because of the grand scavenger hunt you have beforehand to gather 20 Dayans. MBLD usually has a decent amount of Rubik's/Dollar cubes because it does not impact the attempt very much and not everyone is a millionaire.


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## MirzaCubing (Jun 14, 2012)

(Keeping in mind this won't happen, here I go

At the You Can Do the Cube competitions in the MD-VA-DC Area, a team of up to 8 people solve 25 cubes in the fastest time. At the YCDTC competitions, other teams scramble for other teams, which I say isn't as effective, but I doubt much cheating would ever occur. 

Although it won't ever be official, this would be a fun unofficial event


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## Jokerman5656 (Jun 14, 2012)

sounds like an event for the unofficial fun-ness. Not an event to practice and be an actual event


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## Ranzha (Jun 14, 2012)

In reply to OP:

3x3s are the most available. This doesn't make the event easy to run, popular, and sensible. Unfortunately, you'll have to try again.

And about the comment someone else made about Skewb not being added, the WRC's main objective right now (as far as I know) is to make the regs Stefan-proof.


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## BlackStahli (Jun 14, 2012)

Ranzha V. Emodrach said:


> 3x3s are the most available. This doesn't make the event easy to run, popular, and sensible. Unfortunately, you'll have to try again.



As for making the event easy to run, the judges scramble all the cubes at once, in one sitting. Then, they get concealed until the competitor decides to begin inspection/the solve. Assuming a 2 minute time limit for the solves, even with maybe like 50 competitors and just 4-5 timers it can easily be all done within an hour.
As for popularity, 3x3 relays probably wouldn't be the first couple of events considered for being made official, since most cubers probably would be satisfied with the standard 3x3 event, along with all the other variations.


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## Ranzha (Jun 14, 2012)

BlackStahli said:


> As for making the event easy to run, the judges scramble all the cubes at once, in one sitting. Then, they get concealed until the competitor decides to begin inspection/the solve. Assuming a 2 minute time limit for the solves, even with maybe like 50 competitors and just 4-5 timers it can easily be all done within an hour.
> As for popularity, 3x3 relays probably wouldn't be the first couple of events considered for being made official, since most cubers probably would be satisfied with the standard 3x3 event, along with all the other variations.



A 2-minute limit is pretty strict, but I suppose it works for both time efficiency, and the fast that cubers don't have to lug around fifty or so cubes. I just don't think it would have the amount of popularity or the amount of support to make it an event, sorry.
Also, the points system would be like the MultiBLD system?


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