# [Suggestion] Require competitions to have a projector displaying Cubecomps results



## Matt11111 (Sep 15, 2016)

Once upon a time, a fellow named Matt Pinnock and his dad went to Big Apple Winter 2016. Matt was confident he would at least have a shot to make the second round in 3x3 for the first time in his rather empty cubing career. At the end of the second round of 3x3, Matt checked with Eric Zhao to see why he didn't get called to do his solves for the second round. He soon found out that he was in fact in 61st place and didn't advance to the second round. This was because the competition was running behind schedule. Andrew Ricci was part of the staff, and the staff comp was earlier in the day. His results were not entered until very late, since other competitor's times were piled up on top of his. Matt had been checking Cubecomps throughout the day and never saw himself drop into 61st place. Since he had been eliminated from all other events, he and his dad essentially wasted three hours doing nothing.

A similar thing happened a few months later at Big Apple Spring, where Matt's cruddy phone couldn't establish a connection in order to check Cubecomps at all, which made it very difficult to find out his placements and whether he advanced to the next round. This time, he made 3x3 round 2, but that's besides the point.

My point is, both of these problems could have been alleviated if there was a projector of some sort showing Cubecomps results on a big screen for everyone to see. Maybe some people don't even have a phone and therefore couldn't check the results at all. The other two comps I've been to, Red Cross 2014 and Manhasset 2015, had a projector displaying the results, so we knew when we could leave (I usually leave after my last event). I think it would be a much more convenient experience for people with no way to connect to the Internet to check their results on their own.

Thoughts?


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## genericcuber666 (Sep 15, 2016)

at a comp in engalnd there was a monitor we could check but the porbelm with results getting entered later was still a problem i met somoen ther who got 61st aswell maybe have judges enter times as soon as theyre done


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## Chree (Sep 15, 2016)

The suggestion is to require a piece of equipment that:
- is something like hundreds or thousands of dollars in cost
- needs special hardware not only to be set up but to be seen
- will not fit in all venues
- wouldn't be necessary so long as organizers are able to print results OR using cubecomps and someone (not just an individual competitor) is able to connect to the website.

This isn't feasible, globally. That's a really heavy burden to put on organizers around the world. A burden that wouldn't even be exclusive to less wealthy countries. As an organizer, that cost would probably sooner come out of my pocket than it would from registration funds. And I can already think of 2 of the 4 venues I've organized at where it would've been basically impossible to set up a projector at all. And yet we've had multiple competitions without any of the hitches described.


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## Ollie (Sep 15, 2016)

If times not being entered promptly and running behind schedule is the issue, what is to stop you from offering to help input some times to speed the process along and find out sooner?

Also, there is nothing to stop you from asking at the data entry table what your time was, if it was an emergency. Just explain the situation. It doesn't sound like a particularly common one from what you have described.

If your internet connection was the problem, how does requiring a projector screen fix the problem, when viewing or entering times into Cubecomps requires the internet regardless?


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## Matt11111 (Sep 15, 2016)

Ollie said:


> If your internet connection was the problem, how does requiring a projector screen fix the problem, when viewing or entering times into Cubecomps requires the internet regardless?


My phone sucks, so I wasn't able to connect while Cubecomps was being updated.

For some reason.


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## Ollie (Sep 15, 2016)

Matt11111 said:


> My phone sucks, so I wasn't able to connect while Cubecomps was being updated.
> 
> For some reason.



So you're suggesting a costly and inconvenient change of regulations so that you don't have to buy a new phone?


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## Chree (Sep 15, 2016)

I will say, however, that I went to a competition this past summer where @Calode set up a projector. And it was awesome. It was still somewhat difficult to see, though. Because a projector benefits from a dimly lit room, and competitors benefit from a brightly lit room.

There were also issues that occurred when the staff got behind on data entry. Or the person working the projector didn't refresh the website or switch to the most pertinent event view. AND we can only view one event at a time. The same issue Matt experienced about not being up to date on his results would still be an issue even with a projector.


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## Matt11111 (Sep 15, 2016)

Ollie said:


> So you're suggesting a costly and inconvenient change of regulations so that you don't have to buy a new phone?


Imma shut up now...


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## Chree (Sep 15, 2016)

Matt11111 said:


> Imma shut up now...



Suggestions are good. Keep 'em coming. You just may wanna think them through a bit more. There are often very good reasons that something like this is NOT a requirement per regulations.


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## AlphaSheep (Sep 15, 2016)

What about outdoor competitions?


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## Ollie (Sep 15, 2016)

Matt11111 said:


> Imma shut up now...



I didn't mean that to sound harsh. Like Chree said, think through your proposals and try and foresee what other people might say to counter your arguments. It's a pretty useful life skill!


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## JustinTimeCuber (Sep 15, 2016)

How about suggest that competitions use it on the same page as the one that mentions cubecomps itself. Requiring it is... no. Competitions are not technically required to use Cubecomps, although the vast majority do.


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## mark49152 (Sep 15, 2016)

Cheap solution: Once the results are in, the organiser calls out the slowest qualifying time for the next round.


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## 1973486 (Sep 15, 2016)

mark49152 said:


> Cheap solution: Once the results are in, the organiser calls out the slowest qualifying time for the next round.



If someone can't view cubecomps how do they know what avg time they got?


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## biscuit (Sep 15, 2016)

1973486 said:


> If someone can't view cubecomps how do they know what avg time they got?



Find someone who's phone does work, ask the data enters, calculate your own average. It's really not that big a deal.

I think that having a projector is a cool idea, but certainly not something that should be forced.


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## Lucas Garron (Sep 15, 2016)

This is an unreasonable *requirement* for competitions.
As others have pointed out, it is expensive, and doesn't make sense for every competition. You'd also have to clarify what kind of information needs to be shown on the projector, which is not trivial.

A lot of competitions still print out results with a highlighted section of advancing competitors. Perhaps it could be a guideline that they should do this for all non-final rounds unless CubeComps is practically available for everyone.

Alternatively, we could require that there is *some* mechanism for any competitor to look up round results at least 30 minutes after a round. It could be a printout, or even just a designated person or place to go and ask.


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## Goosly (Sep 15, 2016)

Lucas Garron said:


> A lot of competitions still print out results with a highlighted section of advancing competitors.



I've seen this everywhere and I assumed it was required already. It's not?


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## Cale S (Sep 15, 2016)

Goosly said:


> I've seen this everywhere and I assumed it was required already. It's not?



I don't think I've ever seen it done at comps I've been to, but I could have just not looked at it


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## Chree (Sep 15, 2016)

Lucas Garron said:


> Alternatively, we could require that there is *some* mechanism for any competitor to look up round results at least 30 minutes after a round. It could be a printout, or even just a designated person or place to go and ask.



To me, if changes are to be made, this is as close to fair as we're going to get. I think it's very important to the competitors that they know where they stand, especially in terms of "Who made it to the next round". I think Matt would agree.

However, putting a 30 minute time limit on it can become a hardship for staff. For example, let's say we have a 2 day competition; 3x3r1 is at noon on Saturday, and r2 isn't until 3pm on Sunday. It is immediately followed by 2x2r1 and takes up a lot of the competition resources for another hour or so. There still a pretty healthy span of time where it could still be considered reasonable to not yet have results posted. And a pretty legitimate excuse for not having them posted right away.

I'm sure 30 minutes was just your opening offer, though. And I'm also sure there are other scenarios we should account for that I'm not remembering right now.


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## Lucas Garron (Sep 15, 2016)

Goosly said:


> I've seen this everywhere and I assumed it was required already. It's not?



If it's not in the Regulations, it's not required.


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## biscuit (Sep 15, 2016)

I've never had an issue with not posting results anywhere but cubecomps. People ask how many people will advance to the next round all the time, but if you have cubecomps, then anyone can see the results.


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## AlexMaass (Sep 15, 2016)

I just did projector at Manhasset 2015 because the school provided/had one, so I used that, I wouldn't require one for every comp, too expensive and a hassle for it.
I'd recommend you ask a delegate or organizer if you made second round if you're having determining yourself.


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## Matt11111 (Sep 15, 2016)

Dene said:


> Seriously? How does crap like this get proposed? Don't people even bother to put two seconds of thought into their silly ideas before posting them?


Juuuuuust for the record, the idea was initially my dad's.

Doesn't excuse me not really thinking it through. Bye everyone.


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## TheCoolMinxer (Sep 15, 2016)

At every single comp I was at, the organizers printed out the results after the round and put them on the wall. You could easily see if you made it to next round/podiumed etc.
End of the discussion I guess


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## Chree (Sep 15, 2016)

Dene said:


> Seriously? How does crap like this get proposed? Don't people even bother to put two seconds of thought into their silly ideas before posting them?



Let's also keep in mind that this did spur a GOOD idea... which is to put more thought into how people are notified of their placement in competitions.

While the original proposal might've been a non-starter, I still think the spirit of the proposal is a conversation worth having.



TheCoolMinxer said:


> At every single comp I was at, the organizers printed out the results after the round and put them on the wall. You could easily see if you made it to next round/podiumed etc.
> End of the discussion I guess



And ya... pretty much this. For the most part it's up to the organizers to decide how this information is given out. Printing and posting seems to be the minimum, with Cubecomps taking over, most of the time.


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## Ranzha (Sep 16, 2016)

Your issue: You didn't know if you would make it to the next round because the results weren't entered yet
Your issue: You couldn't connect to Cubecomps.

Your solution: Require all competitions to project live results from Cubecomps.
Issue with this: Data might not be entered fast enough to know if you advance. Data entry is not an automatic process, so expecting immediate information about advancement when advancement is based on a number of competitors is unrealistic.

Solution: Offer to help with data entry so that results get entered faster
Solution: Organisers choose a time-based cutoff for round advancement instead of a number of competitors. If this is implemented, then as long as you calculate your own average (some people take a picture of their scorecard to calculate/check their own results), you know if you advance.

People take Cubecomps for granted as a service. No competition is required to have/use it. Competitions are not even required to have an Internet connection. Requiring competitions to use Cubecomps, get the necessary equipment, and broadcast it does not solve your problems, and poses many more financial/logistical issues for organisers/delegates.


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## turtwig (Sep 16, 2016)

I think in general, we should try to minimize the number of regulations and things we require organizers and competitors to do. The regulations exist to make competitions fair, and we shouldn't _require_ competitions to do things just to convenience us.


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