# sune COLL+EPLL vs sune + PLL



## Petro Leum (May 14, 2012)

Hi.

So ive heard from many cubers who know COLL that they wouldnt use a Sune/antisune COLL, they just do regular Sune and PLL.
Their arguments are:
-slower recognition
-COLL sunes are ugly to execute
-PLL is very fast indeed

Now, im currently learning COLL. i know all of the sune and antisune cases, and i dont quite undestand that. Of course, some of the algs are ugly, for example the U'M'x'UL'U'RU2LU2L' and its AS version.

BUT
is it worth enjoying short recognition and abandon e.g. the Niklas case, which is also short and easy (and i would even add the RUR'URU'RDR'U'RD'R2, because i can execute it nearly as fast).
Is the slower COLL recognition not cancelling out with fast EPLL recognition (+execution)?
Do these even consider that COLL gives you a very high chance on a PLL-Skip, which OCLL obviously doesnt?

What are your thoughts on this topic? do you think differently for OH/2H?

EDIT: some even say sune COLLs are slower to recognise than the other COLLs. I dont think so, also just 4 stickers to look at. what do you think?


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## yoinneroid (May 14, 2012)

Most who prefer to do sune usually can do it sub 1, that's why they ignore doing COLL


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## Petro Leum (May 14, 2012)

my suen and antisune is at 0.7, and so is my niklas. my RUR'URU'RDR'U'RD'R2 is at 0.97 (PB). mabe it would be an idea to just pick those two and sune the rest? you would have to recognise regular COLL, though.


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## Lid (May 14, 2012)

Petro Leum said:


> U'M'x'UL'U'RU2LU2L'


Try L' R U R' U' L U2 R U2' R' or M F R' F' Rw U2' R U2' R' instead.


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## Rpotts (May 14, 2012)

Sune COLLs are definitely more difficult for me to recognize than other COLLs. The Doublesune and Pi COLL subsets can both be recognized by simply looking at the U face. L/T/U cases can be recognized by looking at the U face and one adjacent face sticker, often FRU or RFU which are very natural to spot. Almost all of my COLLs for non sune cases are just as fast or just barely slower than my 'normal' OCLL for the case, making it an easy decision to use them. This isn't the case for most of my sune COLLs, other than niklas. It's just not worth it to take the extra fraction of a second to recognize the CP when most fast cubers can execute sunes in ~.5 seconds. Also, many regular PLLs are just as fast (or faster for some) as EPLLs, and 2 side recognition for U perm is more difficult than most PLLs for me.

It's just not really worth it when even the worst PLLs are less than a second slower than my EPLLs. I'd be spending more time recognizing COLL and executing the longer, uglier alg than I'd be getting from an EPLL vs PLL. 

If it works for you that's great, but in the long run I'd recommend getting faster at your least favorite PLLs rather than spending so much time and energy attempting to avoid them.


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## tx789 (May 15, 2012)

Wouldn't cll recognition help you. Still I know almost the Sune set for cll for 2x2 and the pure one R U R' U R U2 R' is fast nikalise is good too


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## mullemeckmannen (May 15, 2012)

i can do sune and anti sune sub .50 so i just do sune then pll (thanks Breandan)


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## 5BLD (May 15, 2012)

CLL recog takes a very short time for sune for me, whilst OLL and PLL takes ages. OP, do you regularly use COLL in your solves? Not to mention you can predict the EPLL easier than PLL.

For the ugly alg you mentioned you can use MFR'F'rU2RU2R' or something like it. s'very fast too


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## LarsN (May 15, 2012)

or you could use: R2' F R U R U' R' F' R U' R' U R and it inverse.

I use full sune COLL with bob burton recog, no problem for me. Just 3 stickers to look at


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## Petro Leum (May 15, 2012)

i use ZZ, and i use every COLL i know when it appears.

you also have to consider the EPLL-skip-ness of COLL and the comfortability of COLL/EPLL vs OCLL/PLL at ONEhanded solving. COLL might be a better choice then, for me the OH PLLs are pretty shitty anyway.
How does CLL recognition work, since you say its so fast, 5BLD?
of course there is also PLLs that are preferable over a for example Z-Perm, like T/E-Perm or the like. But a probable skip or a 2gen EPLL is all in all a better result imo.


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## LouisCormier (May 15, 2012)

I'd rather do sune + PLL than COLL + EPLL (I really hate Z/H)


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## oll+phase+sync (May 16, 2012)

*50%SUNE-COLL*

if you like Sune, Niklas and RUR'URU'RDR'U'RD'R2

You could look for just 2 opposite colored stickers in the U face. (horizontal=Niklas, vertical=, diagonal=sune)

The drawback is that just looking at 2 stickers gives you just a 50% chance to pick the right COLL.

Personally I would go for the following three: Sune, Niklas and "the COLL, that also has to horizontal aligned, opposit colored U-face stickers" - has also 50% hit chance but Sune ist used more often. ALG could be MFR'F'R U2RU2R'M' or L' R U R' U' L U2 R U2 R' 

SOME Random Sune stuff:

z U' R2 U R2 D R' U' R UD' z' is my favorite non SUNe/ Niklas Sune Coll


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## Rubiks560 (May 16, 2012)

I really don't understand why people think recognizing Sune COLL is so hard.

I personally don't do most of the COLLds for Sune just because I don't like the Algs.


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## Petro Leum (May 17, 2012)

oll+phase+sync said:


> if you like Sune, Niklas and RUR'URU'RDR'U'RD'R2
> 
> You could look for just 2 opposite colored stickers in the U face. (horizontal=Niklas, vertical=, diagonal=sune)
> 
> ...



good idea. ill play around with your u-stickers thought.


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## Daniel Liamitz (May 18, 2012)

i know full coll except the sune cases because sune+PLL is faster for me...


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