# Feasibility of Using ZZ as a Beginner's Method



## brian724080 (Oct 26, 2013)

I can recall that when I was a beginner to cubing (less than a year ago), I wasn't exposed to much information about speedsolving methods other than LBL (typical beginner's method) and CFOP. Lately, I switched to the ZZ method, and I found that I liked it way more than CFOP, and I'm now at sub-20 in less than a month. Obviously, there are lots of other great, but not as popular methods like Roux and Petrus, and I've been wondering how efficient it will to teach a beginner that instead of LBL. 

In the few people I've taught, or tried to teach to solve a 3x3, I found that every one of them found it very difficult to predict where a sticker will be, even after only one move. Needless to say, it was a disaster when they asked me how the 2nd layer edge algorithms (U R U R' U' F' U' F) worked. Still, I'm thinking of teaching people ZZ instead of LBL when they ask me for the solution, and I wanted opinions on how feasible it may be. Several obvious obstacles will be the understanding of edge orientation, and blockbuilding F2L (oh god...), last layer wouldn't be a problem because there is only a few cases. What are your opinions?


----------



## KongShou (Oct 26, 2013)

lets teach the hardest, most non intuitive, longest to inspect speed cube method to complete beginners


----------



## Tim Major (Oct 26, 2013)

I taught my Dad Cross+Corner Edge Pairs+last layer with 3 algs. He learnt CFOP easily enough. ZZ is a bit more complicated, but depending on the person, you could teach it. There are some people I could teach Roux/Petrus as a first method to, and others who I would struggle to teach LBL.


----------



## brian724080 (Oct 26, 2013)

KongShou said:


> lets teach the hardest, most non intuitive, longest to inspect speed cube method to complete beginners



Unfortunately, I don't know of such method


----------



## kunparekh18 (Oct 26, 2013)

EO and Line and blocks would be tough for beginners to understand imo. For a beginners method these things should be obeyed:

1. No movecount restrictions - let beginners use how much ever moves they want to. They just need to solve it 

2. A mostly algorithmic approach, but not too many algs to learn - since it would be hard for beginners to grasp the intuitive-ness of solving the Rubik's cube, an algorithmic approach would be a bit better. But learning too many algs would also be difficult, so a less number of algs is good.

This is just what I think, people may obviously disagree.


----------



## brian724080 (Oct 26, 2013)

An algorithmic approach does seem to be a better choice, but when I first started as a beginner, I had no problem understanding the break-down of the algorithms, and intuitive F2L wasn't hard for me at all. So I guess it might be completely dependent on the person, as a lot of people say, there is no best method. Still, I believe it is better to show a beginner many methods so they can get the most out of their advantages, whatever it may be.


----------



## PianoCube (Oct 26, 2013)

I taught some people to solve it using 8355 with keyhole f2l. It's mainly intuitive and is more of a simplification of Heise rather than CFOP/LBL.


----------



## TDM (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd teach Corners First. I've taught several people at school how to do a 2x2 already, so I was going to teach them CF. That's mostly intuitive after the corners, but I wasn't sure how to teach them LSE. Should I do Roux LSE? Or place one UL/UR edge, then solve the other with an alg, flip edges with (M' U)3 (U M)3 U2, then use M' U2 M?


----------



## Frubix (Oct 26, 2013)

When I teach people I teach them LBL, but i don't count the 2nd layer edges as an algorithm, so I say that they need to learn 4 algs, for 4LLL


----------



## TheNextFeliks (Oct 26, 2013)

brian724080 said:


> I can recall that when I was a beginner to cubing (less than a year ago), I wasn't exposed to much information about speedsolving methods other than LBL (typical beginner's method) and CFOP. Lately, I switched to the ZZ method, and I found that I liked it way more than CFOP, and I'm now at sub-20 in less than a month. Obviously, there are lots of other great,*1. but not as popular methods like Roux and Petrus,*and I've been wondering how efficient it will to teach a beginner that instead of LBL.
> 
> In the few people I've taught, or tried to teach to solve a 3x3,*2. I found that every one of them found it very difficult to predict where a sticker will be, even after only one move.**3. Needless to say, it was a disaster when they asked me how the 2nd layer edge algorithms (U R U R' U' F' U' F) worked. *Still, I'm thinking of teaching people ZZ instead of LBL when they ask me for the solution, and I wanted opinions on how feasible it may be. *4.Several obvious obstacles will be the understanding of edge orientation, and blockbuilding F2L (oh god...)*, last layer wouldn't be a problem because there is only a few cases. What are your opinions?





KongShou said:


> lets teach the hardest, most non intuitive, longest to inspect speed cube method to complete beginners



My rants. I agree with KongShou. Most experienced cubers have trouble picking up zz. So we're going to teach complete beginners. 

1. Roux is more popular than ZZ so yeah. 
2. A. Why is that necessary? B. Good luck with ZZ then. 
3. Teach U R U' R' U' F' U F. A. It's better and B. The effect is more obvious. 
4. So basically most of the solve is a challenge. 

IMO, zzf2l would be horrific to teach them. I actually want to see if I can teach someone zz now. Ugh eo rules are a pain.


----------



## Joël (Oct 26, 2013)

I've recently been playing around with something else for beginners. I'd start with placing 1 corner, and then add the three surrounding edges to form a 2x2x2 block. The edges can be placed in three moves (after aligning them with a center).

1. Hide corner
2. Insert edge
3. Unhide corner

The rule for the hiding move will be that the hiding move should not move the edge that you are solving, or the edge that is going to be 'replaced'. This can also easily be extended to a 2x2x3 block. I think it's quite easy to build blocks in this way, and something that can be suitable for beginners. I am not sure if EO would be suitable for beginners, even after the 2x2x3 block. If a beginner is willing to invest some time in it, then yes, it will enhance their understanding of how it works. But they should certainly NOT start with EO-lines.

For edge insertions btw, I sometimes show beginners the move R' E R U2 R' E' R [U2]. Very easy commutator, and some people who have problems doing the 'regular' edge insertion, will find this one easier (provided that you explain it properly).


----------



## brian724080 (Oct 26, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Ugh eo rules are a pain.



TBH, EO rules aren't that difficult once you get used to the color scheme. 
And yea, you are right when you say that many experienced cubers have trouble picking up, but if there was more documentary, maybe someone can make ZZ more beginners friendly?


----------



## TDM (Oct 26, 2013)

brian724080 said:


> TBH, EO rules aren't that difficult once you get used to the color scheme.


Maybe for us, but they'd be too difficult for a beginner.


> And yea, you are right when you say that many experienced cubers have trouble picking up, but if there was more documentary, maybe someone can make ZZ more beginners friendly?


I could possibly make a tutorial or something. But this is me though, and I often get half way through and give up. As I've done with CN CFOP. And Roux. And CN Roux. And 2H ZZ. And CN ZZ. And 2GLL. And ZZLL. And megaminx. And pyra. And making an alg list for P2GLL. And probably more that I can't remember.


----------



## Joël (Oct 26, 2013)

brian724080 said:


> TBH, EO rules aren't that difficult once you get used to the color scheme.
> And yea, you are right when you say that many experienced cubers have trouble picking up, but if there was more documentary, maybe someone can make ZZ more beginners friendly?



No.

For cubers who use ZZ, it's easy, because EO is a simplication. It reduces the number of pattern you can run into. Starting with EO is just not for beginners. Keeping track of the 12 edge orientations is just not something that beginners can do. Many beginners have trouble making a cross, which involves only 4 pieces. They have trouble placing the last cross piece, if it's unoriented. How are they supposed to keep track of 12 edge orientations?

Maybe, if they first learn something like petrus 2x2x3, then EO and practice that for a while, they can later transition to ZZ.


----------



## Escher (Oct 26, 2013)

I used to teach LBL but now I tend to teach Roux with fixing D layer to finish f2l, then beginners LL. Tends to lead into better progression to other methods if they feel like advancing, but intuitive enough that they feel like they're discovering things on their own. Really depends on who you teach though, whether they just want to learn algorithms or actually want to learn how to solve.


----------



## brian724080 (Oct 26, 2013)

Right, plus, it'll be sufficient if a beginner can fully grasp the concept of orientation and permutation.



TDM said:


> Maybe for us, but they'd be too difficult for a beginner.
> 
> I could possibly make a tutorial or something. But this is me though, and I often get half way through and give up. As I've done with CN CFOP. And Roux. And CN Roux. And 2H ZZ. And CN ZZ. And 2GLL. And ZZLL. And megaminx. And pyra. And making an alg list for P2GLL. And probably more that I can't remember.



I'm making a printable text-based LBL beginners guide because I found that I preferred text over videos. I might think of making one for ZZ, but it'll probably be overly complicated and will not be suitable for printing.


----------



## CubezUBR (Oct 26, 2013)

EO would be hard to explain to a begginer
it is easier to understand how lbl/cfop works for begginers so it helps them understand and feel comfortable with the method.
its better to slowly introduce beginers to blockbuilding etc so cfop would help generate the skills needed. 
its a bad idea


----------



## ThomasJE (Oct 26, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> My rants. I agree with KongShou. Most experienced cubers have trouble picking up zz. So we're going to teach complete beginners.
> 
> 1. Roux is more popular than ZZ so yeah.
> 2. A. Why is that necessary? B. Good luck with ZZ then.
> ...



I disagree with all but your first point. I picked up ZZ easily and it has improved my average by about 5 seconds. And there are also many ZZ cubers that are quite fast out there; it's just happens to be that one Roux solver is really fast. And think about it; many Rouxers use it because of Alex. If suddenly, a ZZer broke the world record, many people would switch to ZZ.

There's a reason why it's called the 'beginner's method'. Because over the 30 years we've been playing with this toy, that method has stood the test of time that it is the easiest for beginners to learn and gives them the best understanding of the cube.


----------



## waffle=ijm (Oct 26, 2013)

Roux isn't actually hard to teach. Especially if you dumb it down. When I teach, I end up teaching like escher. Blocks->Insert D Pieces-> LL(which changes depending on if they can pick up the idea of EO or not). IF they pick up EO fast enough, and get it I usually just teach them Roux. Usually when it comes to Roux, if you dumb down without explaining how it works, EO is actually pretty easy to teach, at least from my experience.


----------



## immortalchaos29 (Oct 26, 2013)

I learned originally with Petrus, and I often teach Petrus to beginners who want to understand the moves they're doing and why they work. I find it isn't usually too hard for them, provided you explain it in a way that makes sense. Step 3 (EO) is the hardest for them pretty much exclusively at first. It's just not a simple concept for someone who has no experience.


----------



## aceofspades98 (Oct 26, 2013)

KongShou said:


> lets teach the hardest, most non intuitive, longest to inspect speed cube method to complete beginners


I will pay you one imaginary dollar to justify that statement.


----------



## kcl (Oct 26, 2013)

*Feasibility of NOT Using LBL/CFOP as a Beginner's Method*



aceofspades98 said:


> I will pay you one imaginary dollar to justify that statement.



I'll give it a shot. 
1. EO detection is a pain. I average 13 with CFOP and after weeks of trying ZZ, it was still confusing as heck. As mentioned, people don't get how to flip them easily. If you tell someone to put in a last cross edge that is misoriented, they probably can't or will take a long time to do so. 
2. EOLine is difficult. Again, when I was messing with ZZ I never really understood it well. 
3. Blockbuilding, and even f2l are too complex for most people to understand. When I first picked up a cube, I didn't know HOW the beginner algs worked. Now if you try and add to that by saying you have to PAIR two pieces first, it just becomes way too confusing.


----------



## TDM (Oct 26, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> 1. EO detection is a pain. I average 13 with CFOP and after weeks of trying ZZ, it was still confusing as heck.


Really? I was averaging 22-23 when I started, and it didn't take me that long. I still can't plan EO during inspection after a couple of months, but detecting the misoriented edges isn't that difficult.

Also, why does your list go 1, 2, 4?


----------



## kcl (Oct 26, 2013)

TDM said:


> Really? I was averaging 22-23 when I started, and it didn't take me that long. I still can't plan EO during inspection after a couple of months, but detecting the misoriented edges isn't that difficult.
> 
> Also, why does your list go 1, 2, 4?



Really the EO part is the main thing. It's just way to tricky for somebody with no prior experience to pick up. 

And I have no clue about the list, my brain is tried haha XD. Fix'd.


----------



## uberCuber (Oct 26, 2013)

It's plenty easy to teach a beginner how to determine if each edge is oriented correctly or not, making them understand what that means is a bit harder, actually teaching them how to solve EO can be difficult, and making them truly understand what it is they're doing and what each move is accomplishing could take quite a bit of time.

In terms of just teaching someone how to solve stuff, the blockbuilding F2L would probably be much more difficult than EO. EO is easy to solve, it's the understanding part that's difficult (which of course is the part that leads to being able to solve EO _efficiently_)


----------



## mark49152 (Oct 26, 2013)

A good beginner's method (for anything) should introduce the fewest possible, simplest possible, concepts and steps.

EO just isn't necessary for a beginner. What does it gain them? Avoiding cube rotations? What's easiest to understand for a beginner: rotating the cube, or EO?


----------



## brian724080 (Oct 27, 2013)

TDM said:


> Really? I was averaging 22-23 when I started, and it didn't take me that long. I still can't plan EO during inspection after a couple of months, but detecting the misoriented edges isn't that difficult.



Same, ZZ has been super easy, but on the contrary, I can already plan my EOLine in 15 seconds of inspection (not optimized, obviously).




mark49152 said:


> A good beginner's method (for anything) should introduce the fewest possible, simplest possible, concepts and steps.
> 
> EO just isn't necessary for a beginner. What does it gain them? Avoiding cube rotations? What's easiest to understand for a beginner: rotating the cube, or EO?



The sad thing is, neither...


----------



## aceofspades98 (Oct 27, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> I'll give it a shot.
> 1. EO detection is a pain. I average 13 with CFOP and after weeks of trying ZZ, it was still confusing as heck. As mentioned, people don't get how to flip them easily. If you tell someone to put in a last cross edge that is misoriented, they probably can't or will take a long time to do so.
> 2. EOLine is difficult. Again, when I was messing with ZZ I never really understood it well.
> 3. Blockbuilding, and even f2l are too complex for most people to understand. When I first picked up a cube, I didn't know HOW the beginner algs worked. Now if you try and add to that by saying you have to PAIR two pieces first, it just becomes way too confusing.


You said it was the most non intuitive. 

Have you never heard of CFOP or even a beginners method in general?


----------



## kcl (Oct 27, 2013)

aceofspades98 said:


> You said it was the most non intuitive.
> 
> Have you never heard of CFOP or even a beginners method in general?



I didn't say that. KongShou did. I said why I personally think it's not a good idea.


----------



## TheNextFeliks (Oct 27, 2013)

Can we change the title to Feasibility of ZZ as a Beginners Method cause the current title is too broad.


----------



## brian724080 (Oct 27, 2013)

TheNextFeliks said:


> Can we change the title to Feasibility of ZZ as a Beginners Method cause the current title is too broad.



I'd do that but the Go Advanced button doesn't work when I edit my original post, I think I'm missing something.


----------



## aceofspades98 (Oct 27, 2013)

kclejeune said:


> I didn't say that. KongShou did. I said why I personally think it's not a good idea.


Usernames are confusing.


----------



## kcl (Oct 27, 2013)

aceofspades98 said:


> Usernames are confusing.



Yes but there's only one of him here! 

(Hi Kim!)


----------



## elrog (Oct 27, 2013)

KongShou said:


> lets teach the hardest, most non intuitive, longest to inspect speed cube method to complete beginners



I guess its a good thing that ZZ is not the hardest or most non intuitive speed cube method.

I also don't see what is so hard about the EO-line. I picked up the idea very quickly and I like it a lot more than inspecting the cross.


----------



## uberCuber (Oct 27, 2013)

elrog said:


> I picked up the idea very quickly and I like it a lot more than inspecting the cross.



You like inspecting 12 pieces more than inspecting 4?


----------



## TDM (Oct 27, 2013)

uberCuber said:


> You like inspecting 12 pieces more than inspecting 4?


He said he liked it. He never said it was easier. I also like EOLines more than crosses even though mine take 4 seconds more.


----------



## ravenguild08 (Oct 27, 2013)

Meh, I think ZZ is bad for beginners. I've taught probably like 50 beginners how to solve the cube (and worked as a teacher for 3 years), and beginners in general really like seeing payoffs immediately when they invest any effort. The cross, the first layer, then then the middle slice all look concretely productive because stickers line up and it feels great.

ZZ is designed to rid of later cube rotations. Have you ever noticed that when beginners are looking around on the cube, they can't help but turn it around in their hands? It's hard enough for me to encourage them to keep the cross on the bottom! ZZ is also designed to take explicit advantage of competition 15-second inspection. I'm sure tracking EO for 12 edges is completely unfeasible for beginners and what will happen instead is that you'll teach them to find 2-4 bad edges at a time and correct them in small groups. 

Hypothetical try: you might say something like "Don't turn the cube yet! Just look for edges that are oriented incorrectly. What does that mean? Well. ::long explanation here:: Yes, I know they look all wrong; none are really in the right place, but that doesn't matter, what matters is which way they're pointed! No, it doesn't matter that yellow is touching yellow. Yes, I can see that one matches 3 pieces that are touching it, it doesn't matter right now and it's okay if you move it. What do you mean you don't want to move it?! Just do it! You don't understand why there are two edges with green stickers where green pointed 'out' is right then another two where green pointed 'out' is wrong? But how come orange 'out' is always wrong? And you fix it by turning the green or blue faces once? What do you mean you don't know what green or blue faces mean!? Fine, you can keep that correct edge, just find the other three and I'll teach you this other method..."


----------



## brian724080 (Oct 28, 2013)

ravenguild08 said:


> Meh, I think ZZ is bad for beginners. I've taught probably like 50 beginners how to solve the cube (and worked as a teacher for 3 years), and beginners in general really like seeing payoffs immediately when they invest any effort. The cross, the first layer, then then the middle slice all look concretely productive because stickers line up and it feels great.
> 
> ZZ is designed to rid of later cube rotations. Have you ever noticed that when beginners are looking around on the cube, they can't help but turn it around in their hands? It's hard enough for me to encourage them to keep the cross on the bottom! ZZ is also designed to take explicit advantage of competition 15-second inspection. I'm sure tracking EO for 12 edges is completely unfeasible for beginners and what will happen instead is that you'll teach them to find 2-4 bad edges at a time and correct them in small groups.
> 
> Hypothetical try: you might say something like "Don't turn the cube yet! Just look for edges that are oriented incorrectly. What does that mean? Well. ::long explanation here:: Yes, I know they look all wrong; none are really in the right place, but that doesn't matter, what matters is which way they're pointed! No, it doesn't matter that yellow is touching yellow. Yes, I can see that one matches 3 pieces that are touching it, it doesn't matter right now and it's okay if you move it. What do you mean you don't want to move it?! Just do it! You don't understand why there are two edges with green stickers where green pointed 'out' is right then another two where green pointed 'out' is wrong? But how come orange 'out' is always wrong? And you fix it by turning the green or blue faces once? What do you mean you don't know what green or blue faces mean!? Fine, you can keep that correct edge, just find the other three and I'll teach you this other method..."



You're right, ZZ is designed for speedsolving and use in competitions.

Sometimes it's just really frustrating to teach some people because they get the edges and corners mixed up, or are unable to spot a white cross edge right in front of them.


----------



## Joël (Oct 29, 2013)

brian724080 said:


> You're right, ZZ is designed for speedsolving and use in competitions.
> 
> Sometimes it's just really frustrating to teach some people because they get the edges and corners mixed up, or are unable to spot a white cross edge right in front of them.



Hi Brian,

I recognise the frustration. But then when I pick up a megaminx, and have to search for pieces (or try color neutral solving), I understand what it feels like to be a beginner again. So you need to have empathy and patience (yeah, it's hard for me too).

Beginners have to put a lot of effort into it, but the teacher often has to put in the same effort. I recently taught a collegue of mine, and felt like giving up sometimes. I had to show him a different way to insert an edge, because the more standard RU'R'U'F'UF was something he didn't get. When I showed him R'ER U2 R'E'R, he liked that a lot more. So for every step we had to find a way that he could understand/remember.

Be patient, and try to break down the algoritms into very small bits. In my experience, algorithms are more easily remembered when each move can be explained and understood.


----------



## brian724080 (Oct 29, 2013)

Joël said:


> Be patient, and try to break down the algoritms into very small bits. In my experience, algorithms are more easily remembered when each move can be explained and understood.



Yes, that is very true, and I can fully comprehend what you mean by the megaminx, because I am horrible at it. I've tried the multiple aspects of algorithms, and most people will get it, what really is frustrating is when neither of the approaches work. Still, I've only started cubing less than a year ago, so the feeling of being a beginner is still somewhat fresh in my mind. This way, I can understand what beginners feel are so could communicate with them more efficiently.


----------



## ~Adam~ (Oct 29, 2013)

I've taught about 20 people and I find teaching the cross the hardest part.
Teaching them EO to start would be an absolute nightmare.


----------



## Joël (Oct 29, 2013)

brian724080 said:


> [stuff]



Just one other approach I'd like to share:

For CP and EP, one approach I find easy to explain to beginners is:

L U' R D2 R' U L'

This switches 2 corners on the front. Quite easy to explain, because both corners are 'isolated' in the bottom layer, and then switched with a D2. Using this alg twice with a U or U2 in between can solve CP.

For diagonal CP, it's (L U' R D2 R' U L') U2 (L U' R D2 R' U L')

For adjacent CP, they have to remember to put the 2 solved corners (=headlights) on the *left* and switch a 'good' corner with a 'bad' corner. After (L U' R D2 R' U L'), you end up with headlights on the *right*, so U' (L U' R D2 R' U L') to solve CP.

A nice thing about this appraoch is that after CP, EP can then be solved using a similar alg:

(L U' R E2 R' U L') U2 (L U' R E2 R' U L') U2

(L U' R E2 R' U L') U (L U' R E2 R' U L') U'

One person I taught this, came up with an H perm herself: (L R E2 R' L') U (L R E2 R' L') U'


----------



## Yellowsnow98 (Oct 29, 2013)

ZZ for speedcubing.
Better than CFOP.

But ZZ as a beginners method...
No. Just no.


----------



## rj (Oct 29, 2013)

Yellowsnow98 said:


> ZZ for speedcubing.
> Better than CFOP.
> 
> But ZZ as a beginners method...
> No. Just no.



Well, with orienting 2 edges at a time, maybe it's possible.


----------



## TDM (Oct 29, 2013)

rj said:


> Well, with orienting 2 edges at a time, maybe it's possible.


Possible? Yes. Of course it's possible.
Easy to understand for beginners and can be learned quickly? No.

As Yellowsnow98 said, it's for speedcubing (although I'm not sure I agree about it being better than CFOP. Both have their advantages and disadvantages). It's definitely not a beginners method.


----------



## brian724080 (Oct 30, 2013)

cube-o-holic said:


> I've taught about 20 people and I find teaching the cross the hardest part.
> Teaching them EO to start would be an absolute nightmare.



Cross does seem to be the most difficult part for beginners because it is the first time they've really observed the cube carefully. EO may be a nightmare, but it is a good foundation for beginners, it just takes more time. I think doing EO two at a time is a good idea, although it will take quite a while for a beginners to understand.


----------



## brian724080 (Nov 23, 2013)

*Teaching a Beginner ZZ*

I have an update for this thread, because I am currently teaching a beginner ZZ. She's an average student in my grade, and she has little to no cubing experience. The reason I say that is because a lot of my classmates read cubing notation or do finger tricks like the sexy move due to my influence. Why her? Because she asked, and she also agreed to be my "test subject" because I would teach the typical beginner LBL. The reason I'm doing this is on the one hand, I want to prove that an average beginner can handle it, and on the other hand, I want to see how beginners progress when they start with a more difficult method. But to be honest, I have no idea what the outcome would be. I believe that this wouldn't be a smooth journey for either of us, because this is the first time I've every tried to do this.

In our 45 minute study period (more like 35 minutes due to interruptions), I've finished teaching her cubing notation, cube piece, cubing basics, and answered all the question she asked. Also, surprisingly, I finished teaching her EO rules and she can identify good or bad edges easily. Thankfully, she chose the same color scheme as me (yellow on top and red on front), otherwise, I'll be the one having trouble. I plan to teach her to solve EO two at a time, but obviously, she'll have to work out how the pieces of the cube interact with each other. How do you guys think I should approach blockbuilding F2L? I'm guessing that I'll teach her a very specific order in which the pieces are placed to minimize confusion.

P.S. This is my 100th post


----------



## Renslay (Nov 23, 2013)

brian724080 said:


> I have an update for this thread, because I am currently teaching a beginner ZZ. (...)



Good luck with that!

Reminds me when someone taught a complete beginner 3x3 BLD to proof that BLD is so simple even a beginner can learn it. They managed to do it, and the pupil's very first (full) solve was done blindfolded.


----------



## brian724080 (Nov 23, 2013)

Renslay said:


> Good luck with that!
> 
> They managed to do it, and the pupil's very first (full) solve was done blindfolded.



I might need some luck, and wow, that is just incredible, I'm still working on BLD


----------



## 1LastSolve (Nov 23, 2013)

I think it is a bit too complicated for some people. I do think teaching beginners with 4LLL is a good idea, because most people will just end up learning it later on anyway.


----------

