# Male to Female Ratio



## Sir E Brum (Feb 12, 2009)

In the interest of not hijacking Dae Ja Voo's thread, I have started one about this.

I would just like to hear some thoughts on why there are more male cubers than female cubers. 

I wish I could do some sort of statistical analysis, but gathering data for it is an issue.


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## Kian (Feb 12, 2009)

I think the best explanation of why most speedcubers would be that men generally have more addictive personalities, and that lends itself to speedcubing well. I'm sure a natural inclination toward math might be some factor, but I doubt it's as important as the addiction towards the competitive nature of speedcubing. 

I have absolutely no data on how many speedcubers are men or women but I'd say that of the tournaments I've been to I'm not sure I've ever seen more than 5-8% of the competitors be female and I have certainly seen no female competitors.


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## Sir E Brum (Feb 12, 2009)

I was going to use the entire list of records that the WCA has for 3x3 comps, but that is biased and there are quite a few names that do not lend themselves well to gender interpretation.


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## Lucas Garron (Feb 12, 2009)

Sir E Brum said:


> I wish I could do some sort of statistical analysis, but gathering data for it is an issue.


Depends what data you want.

Last November, there were 4232 people in the database, with:
408 females
3483 males
341 unrecorded gender


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## hypercube (Feb 12, 2009)

by experience,women get way more obsessed than men...

i think i will stick with my first expanation,though i might be completely wrong...


:most women think they have better things to do than solving a puzzle over and over again....

those who do solve a puzzle over and over again,tend to become very good at it


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## EmersonHerrmann (Feb 13, 2009)

Aren't chicks supposed to be better at seeing colors or something? I heard something like that somewhere.


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## EchoMoon (Feb 13, 2009)

A female made one of the most popular methods  
I think it's because we have longer attention spans


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## fanwuq (Feb 13, 2009)

EchoMoon said:


> A female made one of the most popular methods
> I think it's because we have longer attention spans



DNF on both.
By DNF, I mean it is wrong.


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## Sir E Brum (Feb 13, 2009)

EchoMoon said:


> A female made one of the most popular methods
> I think it's because we have longer attention spans



1) So?

2) Proof please.


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## IamWEB (Feb 13, 2009)

Women may get interested more but that 'impossible to solve'-ness, and may learn how to solve it, but sticking to speed and improvement may usually be something for men, what-with going faster being competitive, and men being more competitive on average... testosterone and all.


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## Sir E Brum (Feb 13, 2009)

Lucas Garron said:


> Sir E Brum said:
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> 
> > I wish I could do some sort of statistical analysis, but gathering data for it is an issue.
> ...



So throw out the unrecorded.

I shouldn't even have to show the statistical analysis but here we go:

H0 = male and female percentages are equal
H1 = male and female percentages are not equal

pop = 3891

3483/3891 = 89.51% = m 
408/3891 = 10.49% = f

SD = sqrt[(m * f) / pop]
SD = .4912%

10SD (for emphasis) = 4.912%

50% + 10SD = 54.912%

89.51% > 54.912%

Probability of occurrence beyond 10SD, <.001%

H0 is False.

So I am able to prove the difference in male and female percentages. 

Someone please check my math there. It has been a while since I have done statistics.


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## Lofty (Feb 13, 2009)

Those numbers are similar to the gender ratios who watch my youtube videos. Youtube gives you some pretty interesting statistics.


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## Jhong253 (Feb 14, 2009)

Sir E Brum said:


> Lucas Garron said:
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> > Sir E Brum said:
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I disagree with your definition of population here. Only a certain proportion of cubers out there are recorded on WCA database. So I'd consider WCA as a sample. 
Your hypothesis suggests that you are doing a 2-prop z test.
This doesn't work here as you have only one sample -- WCA database. For 2 proportion z test you need two independent SRS, which we don't have here. So I'd use 1-proportion z test instead. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

True population proportion of female cubers 
3891 cubers, with 408 females. P-Hat = .104857 

H0: P = 0.5 (50% of cubers are females)
Ha: P < 0.5 (Less than 50% of cubers are females, thus less females)

Assumed that WCA database is representative of the entire population of cubers in the world, as only those who voluntarily went to competitions and signed up are in the database.
np>10? Yes, 3891 * 408/3891 = 408
nq>10? Yes, 3891 * (1- 408/3891) ~ 3492
N>10n? Assume that there are more than 38910 cubers in the world (may or may not be true, so must be assumed too)

One Proportion Z Test

Z = (.104857 - 0.5) / ( sqrt( (0.5 * 0.5) / 3891 ) ) = -49.2964
P(Z < -49.2964) = almost 0.

I reject H0.
There is a strong evidence based on the sample to suggest that true proportion of female cubers is less than 0.5. However, this conclusion and data must be taken in with caution, as the sample is not necessarily representative of the entire population.

So we come up with same conclusion anyway. Oh well  
Although I would be cautious about saying that you "prove," because we could be making a Type I error here.


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## Kian (Feb 14, 2009)

Sir E Brum said:


> EchoMoon said:
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> > A female made one of the most popular methods
> ...



1 isn't even true.

2 yeah i'm pretty sure that's not accurate, too.


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## JLarsen (Feb 14, 2009)

Kian said:


> Sir E Brum said:
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> > EchoMoon said:
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So how come people are denying that a woman made Fridrich, here? wtf are you talking about? And if you deny Fridrich isn't at minimum one of the most popular methods, than you're just being moronic. So please, elaborate. You've got my attention.


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## Tyson (Feb 14, 2009)

Kian said:


> I think the best explanation of why most speedcubers would be that men generally have more addictive personalities, and that lends itself to speedcubing well. I'm sure a natural inclination toward math might be some factor, but I doubt it's as important as the addiction towards the competitive nature of speedcubing.
> 
> I have absolutely no data on how many speedcubers are men or women but I'd say that of the tournaments I've been to I'm not sure I've ever seen more than 5-8% of the competitors be female and I have certainly seen no female competitors.



Natural inclination? Don't you think societal influences also have something to do with it?


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## Escher (Feb 14, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Kian said:
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> > 1 isn't even true.
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hahaha... do you know who Jiri Fridrich was?


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## JLarsen (Feb 14, 2009)

Escher said:


> Sn3kyPandaMan said:
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> > Kian said:
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I've never heard that name before, ever. *google* http://www.amazon.com/review/RN9PYR9YCM5LS

It mentions a solution by Jiri, but nothing else. Are you implying Jessica is not the inventor?


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## Odin (Feb 14, 2009)

Jessica Fridrich did invent the Fridrich method. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=who's+the+inventor+of+the+Fridrich+method&l=1


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## hypercube (Feb 14, 2009)

jiri fridrich = jessica fridrich....it is so simple as that


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## Lofty (Feb 14, 2009)

*sigh*
How does this topic come up so much... (About Jessica/Jiri Fridrich)
Anyway like most things its probably a mix of both natural inclination and social pressures...


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## Kian (Feb 14, 2009)

Tyson said:


> Kian said:
> 
> 
> > I think the best explanation of why most speedcubers would be that men generally have more addictive personalities, and that lends itself to speedcubing well. I'm sure a natural inclination toward math might be some factor, but I doubt it's as important as the addiction towards the competitive nature of speedcubing.
> ...




I think that societal influences certainly have a great to do with. But studies have shown men to have a greater acumen for mathematics while women test better with verbal skills. I don't think it's unreasonable that that natural successes in those fields would make for people extrapolating their talents in math to something like cubing. I imagine both societal influences and a predisposition play a role in the ratio we see today.

I probably should have qualified my statement with an acknowledgment of that as well, Tyson.


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## Kian (Feb 14, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Kian said:
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> > Sir E Brum said:
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ok this is just getting out of control. jiri is jessica. she was he. he invented the method. he became her.

None of us should have even brought it up as a matter of semantics. it's a silly thing to worry about, I guess it just came up because of the topic.

Either way, the creator of a method does not have anything to do with the ratio of men to women.

Edit: Sorry for the double post. I don't know how to quote two separate posts in one post.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Feb 14, 2009)

err... I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it... but males (in general of course) tend to study more facts while females (again, in general) will often be more analytical on certain subjects... that may be a reason because males can memorize more algs... but then again... it takes analyzing, too. =/


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## Deleted member 2864 (Feb 14, 2009)

Kian said:


> Sn3kyPandaMan said:
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> > Kian said:
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sorry for the double but it's for the same reason as the person above... I know this is off topic but "she became he???" I don't get it... explanation plz =)


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## Odin (Feb 15, 2009)

aznmortalx said:


> Kian said:
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> > Sn3kyPandaMan said:
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Is Jessica a transvestite?


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## AvGalen (Feb 15, 2009)

Why does everyone assume that more male than females cube?

I have taught > 100 people how to cube (in person) and I would estimate only 10% of them are male.

It is my experience that women learn how to solve the cube faster, but once they have learned how to solve it they generally don't have as much drive as men to become fast.

And Jessica is a transsexual (MTF), not a transvestite


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## live2die (Feb 20, 2009)

lol well im a girl and i have an addictive personalitie and cant put the cube down lol .. im have a bit of trouble momorizing th last layer if anyone want to give me tips it would be nice


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## Sir E Brum (Feb 20, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> Why does everyone assume that more male than females cube?
> 
> I have taught > 100 people how to cube (in person) and I would estimate only 10% of them are male.
> 
> ...



So... how should we go about our data collection?


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Feb 22, 2009)

i have a suspicion that Jiri switched sides because they're weren't enough female cubers.


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## PuzzleProfessor (Feb 22, 2009)

Hi, I'm a female cuber and I just thought that it would be a good challenge to solve the rubiks cube and get faster!


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## ThePizzaGuy92 (Feb 23, 2009)

PuzzleProfessor said:


> Hi, I'm a female cuber and I just thought that it would be a *good challenge to solve* the rubiks cube *and get faster!*



well... that pretty much sums up speedcubing.


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## d_sprink (Feb 23, 2009)

as for getting data... you could always use a forum poll for starters. And someone put that post up with WCA stats.


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## AvGalen (Feb 23, 2009)

ThePizzaGuy92 said:


> i have a suspicion that Jiri switched sides because they're weren't enough female cubers.


That's funny, but I don't think it works that way.

Dene(y) is trying it the opposite way. (S)he now looks like a man in the hope that (s)he will attract female cubers that way (I do about the same but I have been a "he" for as long as I can remember)

So far the "switching gender" approach hasn't raised the amount of female cubers as much as my "Hi, I am Arnaud, I can do the sexy move and I can teach you how to do it as well" approach


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## themontyfreak (Jul 28, 2009)

*From the perspective of a girl*

I, being a female, think a reason why that the Rubik's cube and speedcubing in general is heavily weighted towards men is because (from my experience) girls think the Rubik's cube is nerdy and would rather obsess about boys and make-up (among other things, I'm not like that). Some girls really hate math and could honestly care less about things such as the cube. 
That's just my thought though.


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## V-te (Jul 28, 2009)

All the people in my school that Ive taught have been male. I tried my best to teach a female, and she couldn't complete the cross because "She is not a nerd and does not have enough patience"

many people in my school (especially women)[No sexist] are ignorant, and that is a quality that spreads really fast. That's why I am single and will be until I find a girl that can cube. Cubing > Social life.


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## themontyfreak (Jul 29, 2009)

V-te said:


> All the people in my school that Ive taught have been male. I tried my best to teach a female, and she couldn't complete the cross because "She is not a nerd and does not have enough patience"
> 
> many people in my school (especially women)[No sexist] are ignorant, and that is a quality that spreads really fast. That's why I am single and will be until I find a girl that can cube. Cubing > Social life.


I'm a female cuber....I know what it's like to grow up in a school full of ignorance, not fun. Though I might be a bit too old to date you (I'm turning 18 and heading off to college in the fall) and might live a ways away, doesn't mean we can't talk or something.


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## miniGOINGS (Jul 29, 2009)

Haha, it's like the eCube thing all over again...


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## liljthedude (Jul 29, 2009)

I taught a girl in my class how to solve the first layer and how to do the second layer with the algorithms.


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## ChrisBird (Jul 29, 2009)

I taught my friend how to solve it, link here:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13165&highlight=darcy


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## Lt-UnReaL (Jul 29, 2009)

On average, I think males are more competitive, have more addictive personalities, and are better at things that require spatial skills (which makes them more interested).


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## marthaurion (Jul 29, 2009)

I've taught two girls how to solve. One got bored really quickly and the other still solves at 40 second avg (I taught her about a year ago). So, make of it what you will


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## cmhardw (Jul 29, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> It is my experience that women learn how to solve the cube faster, but once they have learned how to solve it they generally don't have as much drive as men to become fast.



Data from younger students, from my experience.

1) The fastest cuber at our center is a female
2) More females have learned the full solution than males
3) The only two people who have expressed interest to learn BLD solving at our center were a boy and a girl, so tie there.
4) The youngest cuber I ever taught, a 2nd grader, was a girl.

Also, data I've noticed from the math tutoring at our center. The smarter boys tend to be cockier and *think* they are smarter than the girls. They express this verbally, and usually very directly. Think "I'm smarter than you" kind of comments.

However, a larger percentage of our highest scorers on our placement tests are girls than are boys. Also, more girls are a grade level or 2 ahead of their class than boys who are the same age. Considering the top test takers at our center who are the same age, the girls at that age tend to be further along or further ahead than boys at the same grade level.

The thing that I hate though is that the girls tend to believe the boys are smarter because they are so cocky about it. I've even heard girls at our center say things like "Yeah, he must be smarter than me", even in cases where the girl scored better or in general performs better than the boy. For kicks I like to tell the girls this, so that they at least know.

Take from that what you will, but those are my observations for younger boys and girls when considering cubing and math. I hear the comment that "Men tend to be better at math than women" but my experience is more like "Men tend to *think* they are better at math than women."

Chris


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## lowonthefoodchain (Jul 29, 2009)

The girl who sits next to me in band took my cube off my music stand and solved it in 45 seconds. She claims doesn't cube often, but yet she's faster than most of my friends. I don't believe that (untrue) stereotypes should divide the community of cubing by gender.


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## lowonthefoodchain (Jul 29, 2009)

So wait, this thread isn't even about ratios anymore? It's all about intellect of men and women?

Heated topics spiral out of control quite quickly.


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## AvGalen (Jul 29, 2009)

(this will be considered off-topic by some)



cmhardw said:


> AvGalen said:
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> > It is my experience that women learn how to solve the cube faster, but once they have learned how to solve it they generally don't have as much drive as men to become fast.
> ...


There is a reason to be more verbal and even cocky about ones abilities: It gets one somewhere. In school others (that are equally able) will look up to them and later at work it will get them a higher salary. For social reasons men do this more then women, but this is slowly changing with women becoming more outspoken


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## Rama (Jul 29, 2009)

Sn3kyPandaMan said:


> Kian said:
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It's called CFOP and *NOT* Fridrich method and Ron van Bruchem also made a method like that in the 80's and I am confident many more did too.


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## CharlieCooper (Jul 29, 2009)

ohhh a female uk cuber. interesting.


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## Deleted member 2864 (Jul 29, 2009)

well... I think I read somewhere that the majority of guys have a S brain and most girls have an E brain... S is system and I believe E was empathy (not certain). Meaning, most males will tend to be more interested in technical stuff and most females will take interest in social sort of stuff I guess... though that's just a generalization... there was another type of brain that I forget the lettering of that's right in between...

keep in mind that's just a generalization though.

but I guess males may be more interested in the cube because I guess it falls into something technical or a S brain would appreciate more...


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## brunson (Jul 29, 2009)

Rama said:


> Sn3kyPandaMan said:
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It's called whatever people call it. I'm sure there were people developing block building methods before Lars published and popularized his, but we still call it Petrus. According to what I've read about the development of CFOP, other people were calling it Fridrich before she ever did.


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## emu (Jul 29, 2009)

> well... I think I read somewhere that the majority of guys have a S brain and most girls have an E brain... S is system and I believe E was empathy (not certain). Meaning, most males will tend to be more interested in technical stuff and most females will take interest in social sort of stuff I guess... though that's just a generalization... there was another type of brain that I forget the lettering of that's right in between...
> 
> keep in mind that's just a generalization though.
> 
> but I guess males may be more interested in the cube because I guess it falls into something technical or a S brain would appreciate more...



I think you were reading a self-help book.  I say that because it sounds too much like speculation and stereotypes. It doesn't seem to be scientifically supported at all as of yet. But men and women definitely act differently in general, whether or not that's hard-wired into everyone's brain or subconsciously mimicked from people of the same gender.

As for the topic, I thought it was pretty apparent that males tend to be more competitive, boasting, and determined than women tend to be. All of the people I have taught cubing were males, and females generally said something like, "I could never do that" or "My brain doesn't work that way." So they simply don't need to be better than anyone else, which is fine.


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## TMOY (Jul 29, 2009)

brunson said:


> I'm sure there were people developing block building methods before Lars published and popularized his, but we still call it Petrus.


I'm 100% sure there were people solving corners with orientation-separation-xLL methods before Guimond published and popularized his, because I was one of them  But we still call it Guimond too.


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## Mike Hughey (Jul 29, 2009)

My daughters were certainly easy to teach, despite their age. I notice that a large percentage of the very young solvers in the WCA seem to be female; way back in the dark ages when the WCA statistics page was working, the list of ten youngest solvers had several females on it.

Interestingly, my daughters both think they're terrible at math, but I think they're both really good at it, and I'm their math teacher.


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## Thieflordz5 (Jul 29, 2009)

cmhardw said:


> Data from younger students, from my experience.
> 
> 1) The fastest cuber at our center is a female
> 2) More females have learned the full solution than males
> ...



Actually, it's a combination of this and conficence, since they *think* they're better at math, they try more things, and since girls *think* they're not going to be good, they don't even put any effort.
When I started, I thought, "If Will Smith can learn to solve with professional help, I can learn to solve it without!" and I did


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## Deleted member 2864 (Jul 29, 2009)

emu said:


> > well... I think I read somewhere that the majority of guys have a S brain and most girls have an E brain... S is system and I believe E was empathy (not certain). Meaning, most males will tend to be more interested in technical stuff and most females will take interest in social sort of stuff I guess... though that's just a generalization... there was another type of brain that I forget the lettering of that's right in between...
> >
> > keep in mind that's just a generalization though.
> >
> ...



nah, I've never read a self help book... though I do believe they did some tests about the brain... but who knows, I'm not even certain if those are true facts... you never know with the media. Or maybe it was in a dream...


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