# Boulder 2008 - September 20th - Boulder, Colorado



## pjk (Aug 5, 2008)

The Boulder 2008 will take place on September 20, 2008 in Boulder, Colorado, USA. Check out the Boulder 2008 website for more information and registration.

I'll definitely be there. Who else here plans on going?


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 6, 2008)

I'm going. Registered for 2x2, 3x3, OH, and minx. Suppose I should start practicing. >.>


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## shelley (Aug 6, 2008)

I'll probably go. A flight from LAX is not too expensive.


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## King Koopa (Aug 7, 2008)

I want to go really bad, I think it'll be a 9 hour drive though, :/


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 19, 2008)

PJK, do you have access to the list of people registered? I'm just interested as to how many people will be coming.


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## brunson (Aug 19, 2008)

hawkmp4, I never noticed you were in Louisville until this thread. Cool, another local. 

But I wonder, why does your forum profile say you're 17 and your youTube say you're 33?


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## hawkmp4 (Aug 20, 2008)

That's a good question 
I suppose I should fix that.
I am 17, to be clear. Senior in high school still.


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## pjk (Sep 19, 2008)

I'll see you guys tomorrow. Should be a good time. It is looking like there will be 30-35 of us.


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## hawkmp4 (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks to everyone who showed up for making it run so smoothly  I had a blast. Can't wait for Denver 2009!


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## pjk (Sep 21, 2008)

Results are now posted here.


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## Pedro (Sep 21, 2008)

Rubik's Master Magic Final Average of 5
Place Person Best Average Citizen of Result Details
1	Dan Dzoan	3.19 3.69 USA	4.17 5.30 3.30 3.19 3.60




> 9q)	Events and rounds must have at least 2 competitors.




??


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## pjk (Sep 21, 2008)

I thought about that, but then saw this:
http://www.worldcubeassociation.org...lts=All+Results&competitionId=BelgianOpen2008
There is 1 competitor for 5x5x5 BLD, and this comp. was delegates by Ron, so I figured it was correct.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 21, 2008)

pjk said:


> I thought about that, but then saw this:
> http://www.worldcubeassociation.org...lts=All+Results&competitionId=BelgianOpen2008
> There is 1 competitor for 5x5x5 BLD, and this comp. was delegates by Ron, so I figured it was correct.



That was before the new rules went into effect. If you'll look down farther at the multiBLD results, you'll see they were following the old rules too (Tim Habermaas took 4th place with 12/16 - he would have been second place under the new rules).


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## pjk (Sep 23, 2008)

Hmmm.... okay. I'm unsure how to go about that then. I don't see any reason for that rule to exist. Anyone know why it exists? I see nothing wrong with only Dan doing the MM.


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 23, 2008)

pjk said:


> Hmmm.... okay. I'm unsure how to go about that then. I don't see any reason for that rule to exist. Anyone know why it exists? I see nothing wrong with only Dan doing the MM.





This was discussed on the WCA forum here:
http://www.worldcubeassociation.org...=4&t=423&sid=a59a6c993a1e667049e25da20dfcb1ad

Ron said this:


> Yes, with one competitor it is not a competition but a time trial.
> Yes, you could add a fake competitor who just DNFs. There is no way to prevent that other than WCA delegate and competitors being fair and sportsmanlike.



It felt like the target here was big cubes BLD - I'm not sure anyone expected it to happen on Master Magic.

The reason it probably feels particularly weird for Master Magic is that Magic and Master Magic are such similar events, it feels like if you're doing Master Magic and someone else is doing Magic, you're practically competing.

But technically, under the rules, Dan needed to find someone else to compete against in order to compete. It would have been okay if the other person had DNF'ed one solve and DNS'ed the others. A note to future competition organizers - if you're going to have an event, make sure at least 2 people compete in that event. It's almost always possible to find someone willing to try, unless it's 5x5x5 BLD. (I've never had trouble finding a REAL competitor for 4x4x4 BLD.)


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## Genie1048 (Sep 25, 2008)

lol someone post dan's +2 or not 5x5 solve xD that was awesome


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## shelley (Sep 25, 2008)

All the side events kind of took place at the same time. Dan Dzoan didn't realize he was the only Master Magic competitor until after the results were posted, and Dan Knights and the other organizers were apparently not aware of that regulation. Had I known, I would have competed (I have never touched a Master Magic before, but I've seen Stefan's tutorial song).


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## pjk (Sep 25, 2008)

shelley said:


> All the side events kind of took place at the same time. Dan Dzoan didn't realize he was the only Master Magic competitor until after the results were posted, and Dan Knights and the other organizers were apparently not aware of that regulation. Had I known, I would have competed (I have never touched a Master Magic before, but I've seen Stefan's tutorial song).


I was actually planning on competing in MM, but then ended up not having the time to/had other priorities. I looked into this regulation before hand, and as I linked above, I thought it was fine having 1 competitor anyway since it occurred at the Belgian Open (although the regulations were changed since, that didn't cross my mind).



> Yes, with one competitor it is not a competition but a time trial.


I know this isn't the place to talk about this, but I will give my opinion on here for now. I totally disagree. By completing an event, you are competing, whether no one else competed in _that_ competition or not. For example, I've seen several competitions where the first place finisher in the 3x3 is several seconds ahead of second (like 14 sec vs 20 sec avg). Do you think that person that got the 14 sec avg was planning on winning? He/she was most likely competing against the rest of the world in the WCA rankings, and didn't really care who took second, where he placed, etc. Whenever I go to a competition, I always have the mindset that I am competing against the rest of the world, not really just whomever is in the room at the competition. Take Dan (Dzoan) for example. He knew coming to the competition that he would most likely win nearly all the events (which he did). Do you think he cared about that? I bet he was more focused on improving all his world rankings, which he did. So when I see Dan's result in the MM, I see that at as competition against the other 174+ competitors worldwide who have competed in MM.

Another thing about this rule is that if you want to compete against the WCA rankings, you have to have someone willing to compete with you at that competition. If I'm in the only 5x5 BLD solver in Colorado or the surrounding states, I cannot possibly compete in 5x5 BLD until I find someone else who wants to try. I find that quite ridiculous.


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## edwardtimliu (Sep 25, 2008)

no one cared about dan dzoans mm, although i was watching him lol
i was gonna compete in magic, but kinda forgot... could i have gotten first with a barely sub 2 average?
i improved so much in rubiks cubes! im not even kidding im happy


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## Mike Hughey (Sep 26, 2008)

shelley said:


> All the side events kind of took place at the same time. Dan Dzoan didn't realize he was the only Master Magic competitor until after the results were posted...


That's actually what I meant when I said that it feels like you're competing when you're doing Master Magic and someone beside you is doing Magic. It feels like you're competing - it probably wouldn't have crossed my mind either. The only reason I might notice is because I'm particularly sensitive to this rule since I do big cubes BLD.



pjk said:


> > Yes, with one competitor it is not a competition but a time trial.
> 
> 
> I know this isn't the place to talk about this, but I will give my opinion on here for now. I totally disagree. By completing an event, you are competing, whether no one else competed in _that_ competition or not. For example, I've seen several competitions where the first place finisher in the 3x3 is several seconds ahead of second (like 14 sec vs 20 sec avg). Do you think that person that got the 14 sec avg was planning on winning? He/she was most likely competing against the rest of the world in the WCA rankings, and didn't really care who took second, where he placed, etc. Whenever I go to a competition, I always have the mindset that I am competing against the rest of the world, not really just whomever is in the room at the competition. Take Dan (Dzoan) for example. He knew coming to the competition that he would most likely win nearly all the events (which he did). Do you think he cared about that? I bet he was more focused on improving all his world rankings, which he did. So when I see Dan's result in the MM, I see that at as competition against the other 174+ competitors worldwide who have competed in MM.
> ...



You are preaching to the choir - I completely agree. Others feel differently. If you feel strongly about it, you should take it up on the WCA forum. If enough people agree, maybe we can change the rule back next year.

Edit: Sorry for this, pjk - I see you've already done so. I hadn't checked that forum in a while.


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