# [video] It's the Cuber, Not the Cube



## ~Phoenix Death~ (Apr 21, 2012)




----------



## Hermanio (Apr 21, 2012)

I would like to say otherwise- it MOSTLY depends on the cuber, but the cube can play a big role as well. Getting a Guhong II over my older cube improved my averages by about 4 seconds and PB by 2 seconds and I average around 30 secs. On 3x3 solving it doesn't change much, but when we're talking bigger cubes it makes a huge difference.
As an example I take the Rubik's 4x4 and Shengshou 4x4. My times with the storebought were 3 to 4 minutes depending on lock-ups and ''half-pops''. On the Shengshou my first recorded solve was 2:20 and I have managed to shave at least 30 seconds off of that.
I'd say that cuber vs cube would split into 70/30.


----------



## retep (Apr 21, 2012)

Ya, I agree the cuber plays a much bigger role than the cube, but having a good cube definitely helps. I own 2 cubes, a guhong V2 and a rubik's brand store-bought. On the guhong I average about 24 seconds (+/- about 5 seconds), on my rubik's store-bought I average about 50 seconds and don't even break a minute all the time...


----------



## Godmil (Apr 21, 2012)

Do you actually have beginners saying that they think buying the best cube will definitely make them sub-15 or were you just making stuff up? Cause that video sounded like you were complaining about an extreme opinion which doesn't actually exist.


----------



## MWilson (Apr 22, 2012)

"... Unless you're averaging sub-40 on a Rubik's store-bought ..."

Even if it was 100% the cuber, making price the only thing worth considering, it still ends up best to get a speed cube. Rubik's store-bought cubes are over-priced as hell. $30 CDN at a local shop here. There's also RSI and the like to consider when practicing on a really bad stiff cube.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the message that having a really nice speed cube isn't going to make a really significant difference until much later. I just wish people would stop using Rubik's store-bought cubes as the example. Encouraging anyone, even indirectly, _for any reason_, to buy a Rubik's store-bought instead of a ZhanChi or the like is always a terrible idea.

For people who show signs of being obsessed with getting the "best" cube, I like to give them message that they _could_ get fast with a bad cube, but should still get a good speed cube instead of a store-bought for financial and physical hand stress reasons.


----------



## ~Phoenix Death~ (Apr 22, 2012)

Dominate said:


> "... Unless you're averaging sub-40 on a Rubik's store-bought ..."
> 
> Even if it was 100% the cuber, making price the only thing worth considering, it still ends up best to get a speed cube. Rubik's store-bought cubes are over-priced as hell. $30 CDN at a local shop here. There's also RSI and the like to consider when practicing on a really bad stiff cube.
> 
> ...


 
It's $11 where I live. So it really varies.


----------



## Hermanio (Apr 22, 2012)

The price of Rubik's brand cubes is getting higher and higher, at least it seems so. A 3x3 costs about 15 euros or 22-23 US dollars in Estonia. I could get a Guhong online with shipping for about 17-18 US dollars. The only reason Rubik's storebought cubes are even selling is because beginners like me had no idea of alternative options. After my own modding I could make the storebought 3x3 kind of fast and get pretty good times, but it is just not worth it. 
I thought that the original brand is the best one out there. Oh, how wrong I was...
On topic: it is true that beginners think that they must have the best cube out there. I am guilty of the same thing but I just wanted to make sure that I get good cubes because I don't have the chance to order new cubes all the time. Look at it this way: why should I pay for some inferior cube when I could just buy a better one for about the same price?


----------



## hcfong (Apr 22, 2012)

I just did an average of 5 on both my Rubiks storebought and my Guhong. My average on Rubik's storebought was 1:20.38 and on my Guhong 39.13. That's a 40 seconds difference. And I'm not the only one. People who've tried my storebought at competitions usually take at least twice as long to solve it with my storebought than with their own speedcube. 

I agree that it's mainly the cuber, but sometimes the cube can make a huge difference.


----------



## ZincK_NOVA (Apr 22, 2012)

Whoa, did you just say "anything but the Dayan Lingyun"? Rather harsh. I'd prefer the Lingyun over a ghost hand, just saying. Considering you mention personal preference earlier in the video, saying anything but Lingyun seems rather contradictory to me.
Also, "unless you're averaging sub 40 on a store bought with the fridrich method"
What if you're trying to break sub 50 with a store bought using Roux? M slices must be horrible on a cube with practically no corner cutting ability (I wouldn't know for certain, I've never owned a Rubik's brand, nor have I roux solved one, I'm just imagining). 
Whilst I agree that the cuber plays a bigger part than the cube, the cube can still have a significant negative effect on the cuber (such as encouraging bad turning habits, RSI and poor look-ahead due to low TPS- specifically if a beginner is using a stiff cube)
xxoxia briefly mentioned it in his rather long video and I'm sure others have mentioned this before.


----------



## KingTim96 (Apr 22, 2012)

he's so right. i mean yeah if you're used to a dayan zhanchi but you decide to randomly do an Ao5 with a rubik's store bought. then of course your times will be a tiny bit slower. but if you are using a lubed rubik's brand then switch to a zhanchi, nothing that big is gonna change. because you cant control the speed and flexibility of the cube. those are my thoughts.


----------



## Ickathu (Apr 22, 2012)

Haven't watched the video yet, so don't yell at me, but some of the comments seem to say that you advise rubiks brands to beginners. They believe the best cube (Guhong2, zhanchi, lingyun2, etc) is best for everyone, even beginners. I disagree. After I teach someone how to solve the cube, I will either break in and mod a rubik's brand so it is decent, or I will get them an alpha I or a ghosthand or an FII (i.e., a good beginner cube) to start with. Otherwise they will end up having REALLY rough turning and other problems.


----------



## Ranzha (Apr 22, 2012)

Ickathu said:


> Haven't watched the video yet, so don't yell at me, but some of the comments seem to say that you advise rubiks brands to beginners. They believe the best cube (Guhong2, zhanchi, lingyun2, etc) is best for everyone, even beginners. I disagree. After I teach someone how to solve the cube, I will either break in and mod a rubik's brand so it is decent, or I will get them an alpha I or a ghosthand or an FII (i.e., a good beginner cube) to start with. Otherwise they will end up having REALLY rough turning and other problems.


 
This.
I'd go A-I or Ghost Hand. F-II can get uncontrollable for a beginner. I usually have a spare mini DianSheng around, so if I teach someone, I give them that lol.


----------



## ThomasJE (Apr 22, 2012)

I would say it's a 66.66666667% the cuber and 33.33333333% the cube. The cube can make a huge difference, but if you don't know the techniques, then you aren't going to get very fast.


----------



## MalusDB (Apr 22, 2012)

I had a rubiks brand, got a guhong after. It dropped my times from plus 1 min to mid 30's overnight. It depends on the person how much the cube will make the difference.


----------



## ZamHalen (Apr 22, 2012)

It's the cuber....unless you're using a dollar store cube, in which case I recommend climbing Mount Everest and throwing it as far as possible then buy a better cube.


----------



## jeff081692 (Apr 22, 2012)

In my experience it definitely is the cuber that makes a difference but if you are going to get a cube it might as well be one of the top cubes if you are picking cubes because that is what the fast people are using. I see nothing wrong with that for two reasons. 
1. If you only have money to buy 1 good cube right now.
2. If your favorite cuber uses a certain brand, regardless if you could be faster with your current cube, you might just want to use it because someone else is using it (it's a mental thing).

At least for me those are the two reasons I take into consideration if I am looking for the best cube currently.

In general it would be a good idea however, to experiment with cubes that aren't frequently thought of as the best just so you can understand why people prefer one over another. But if you are on a tight budget as in my case 1 then you don't have that luxury.

Of course though once someone gets that zhanchi, guhong or whatever. They will find that it is the cuber because they will already have the cube and will see how much of a difference it may or may not have made in their times. As long as people aren't buying these cubes and then the next week asking what the best cube is again then there isn't a problem. Just read the reviews and use your best judgement.

Also the way you tension and lube makes a slight difference as well. People can get good times on store bought cubes but that is because it either was lubed or sanded well or had lots of use. Other cubes are easier to get to that state but almost anything is possible with any cube given the right amount of tools and dedication.


----------



## ~Phoenix Death~ (Apr 22, 2012)

ZincK_NOVA said:


> Whoa, did you just say "anything but the Dayan Lingyun"? Rather harsh. I'd prefer the Lingyun over a ghost hand, just saying. Considering you mention personal preference earlier in the video, saying anything but Lingyun seems rather contradictory to me.
> Also, "unless you're averaging sub 40 on a store bought with the fridrich method"
> What if you're trying to break sub 50 with a store bought using Roux? M slices must be horrible on a cube with practically no corner cutting ability (I wouldn't know for certain, I've never owned a Rubik's brand, nor have I roux solved one, I'm just imagining).
> Whilst I agree that the cuber plays a bigger part than the cube, the cube can still have a significant negative effect on the cuber (such as encouraging bad turning habits, RSI and poor look-ahead due to low TPS- specifically if a beginner is using a stiff cube)
> xxoxia briefly mentioned it in his rather long video and I'm sure others have mentioned this before.


 
Sorry. My dislike for the LingYun was my personal preference in the range of the DaYan Cubes. The LingYun V2 is definitely much better.
Usually when I make cubing videos, I just assume most people that watch use Fridrich. If you use Roux, move along. 


Ickathu said:


> Haven't watched the video yet, so don't yell at me, but some of the comments seem to say that you advise rubiks brands to beginners. They believe the best cube (Guhong2, zhanchi, lingyun2, etc) is best for everyone, even beginners. I disagree. After I teach someone how to solve the cube, I will either break in and mod a rubik's brand so it is decent, or I will get them an alpha I or a ghosthand or an FII (i.e., a good beginner cube) to start with. Otherwise they will end up having REALLY rough turning and other problems.


 


ZamHalen said:


> It's the cuber....unless you're using a dollar store cube, in which case I recommend climbing Mount Everest and throwing it as far as possible then buy a better cube.



Your post is extremely true and I agree.


----------



## Mira (Apr 22, 2012)

very useful thread for a beginner, thanks! Now I atleast know I do not have to rush into investing in a better cube, but keep working on my store bought (that was silly expensive compared to a speedcube from the net...) practice gives results


----------



## Smiles (Apr 22, 2012)

I agree, I have a Guhong and a Rubik's storebought (but it's really broken in) I average about 23 - 25 seconds on both. The Guhong isn't really broken in much yet, but I've heard people talking about how big a difference it made instantly. I'm not as consistent on the storebought cube, but it's not like my average is changing much.

But when I use other people's Rubik's storebought my average can go up to 26 seconds, still not a big difference.


----------



## MWilson (Apr 22, 2012)

Smiles said:


> I agree, I have a Guhong and a Rubik's storebought (but it's really broken in) I average about 23 - 25 seconds on both. The Guhong isn't really broken in much yet, but I've heard *people* talking about how big a difference it made instantly. I'm not as consistent on the storebought cube, but it's not like my average is changing much.
> 
> But when I use other people's Rubik's storebought my average can go up to 26 seconds, still not a big difference.


 
Who? The usual opinion is that people see speed cubes for the first time and assume that they need them _or else_, and most (all?) speed cuber's tell them they don't.

Also, welcome to the forum!


----------



## jeff081692 (Apr 22, 2012)

Dominate said:


> *Who?* The usual opinion is that people see speed cubes for the first time and assume that they need them _or else_, and most (all?) speed cuber's tell them they don't.
> 
> Also, welcome to the forum!



I frequently beat my personal bests when I get a new cube. Probably because I am horrible at maintaining a cube for speed.


----------



## Cheese11 (Apr 22, 2012)

I waited until I sub 35sec with a Storebought.



ThomasJE said:


> I would say it's a 66.66666667% the cuber and 33.33333333% the cube. The cube can make a huge difference, but if you don't know the techniques, then you aren't going to get very fast.


 
So 2/3rds the cuber and 1/3rd the cube? You really didn't have to over complicate it.


----------



## 5BLD (Apr 22, 2012)

I'd say it's 5/6 the cuber 1/6 the cube. Also the cuber makes a huge difference and a long-term change whilst a better cube provides a slight but sudden change.


----------

