# Tester Threads in Hardware Area No Longer Allowed



## pjk (Jan 8, 2014)

Due to the tester threads becoming a form of advertisement and cluttering the forums, we have decided to no longer allow them. If you own a shop and want to give away tester puzzles, please do so in your own puzzle thread shop in the puzzle shop area ONLY.


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## MarcelP (Jan 8, 2014)

So the posts move from forum A to forum B but no real difference?


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## pjk (Jan 8, 2014)

MarcelP said:


> So the posts move from forum A to forum B but no real difference?


This forces 1 thread per shop, and removes the overcrowding in the hardware area.


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## MarcelP (Jan 8, 2014)

pjk said:


> This forces 1 thread per shop, and removes the overcrowding in the hardware area.



Did people complain about overcrowded hardware area? I for one had no problems with these threads. In fact, I like how it keeps the search for the perfect cube alive. I can understand that cubeshop owners that do not want to give away free cubes to get some advertizement here would complain.. but yeah, that is how life works.


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## AndersB (Jan 8, 2014)

I think this is nice, a lot of threads on the first page were of this kind, and it's not really something you'd want to read. Also I agree with that companies can just do testing in their own threads.


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## sellingseals (Jan 8, 2014)

I don't see the big deal personally. Once the testers are chosen the thread disappears after a couple of days or so and never seen again for the most part. Doesn't matter where it is, if people are posting on it it get's bumped to the top so either way it's "cluttering" the forums. I also don't look at it as clutter. I look at it as a thread where people can get the chance to get free stuff, does it really matter at all where it is? It's going to show up the same regardless.


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## mark49152 (Jan 8, 2014)

If I was a cube shop owner paying for a shop thread and saw others getting free advertising, I'd be unhappy, so requiring them to be paid up to start these threads makes sense. Whether the tester requests should be separate to their main shop thread is a different question - I like them separate, personally.


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## brian724080 (Jan 8, 2014)

This rule is sort of contradictory to what we do in the hardware thread -- discuss hardware. This happens all the time in these threads. Still, I don't care either way.


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## PeelingStickers (Jan 8, 2014)

You cannot deny that this is a form of advertising for cube shops. In this forum that should only be done within their own thread or in adverts around the site if they pay for it. I agree with this decision.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 8, 2014)

What if maybe, shops paid something like $10-$15 to have a testing thread; whether it be in the Hardware Area or in the Puzzle Shops section. And have a limit of a month to do it in. I personally like this idea, and removes the problem of 'free advertising'.

All the shops that have a testing thread have paid for a thread in the Puzzle Shops area; so I think these threads should be moved into their respective threads; with the request of the thread starter of course.

Personally, I like these testing opportunities, and shops should still be allowed to do this. How and where though is another question.


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## applemobile (Jan 8, 2014)

I think that a shop providing x amount of cubers with free cubes, on the premise that they provide an unbiast review of the cube, is supporting the community more than enough to merit 'free' advertising.


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## Michael Womack (Jan 8, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> What if maybe, shops paid something like $10-$15 to have a testing thread; whether it be in the Hardware Area or in the Puzzle Shops section. And have a limit of a month to do it in. I personally like this idea, and removes the problem of 'free advertising'.
> 
> All the shops that have a testing thread have paid for a thread in the Puzzle Shops area; so I think these threads should be moved into their respective threads; with the request of the thread starter of course.
> 
> Personally, I like these testing opportunities, and shops should still be allowed to do this. How and there though is another question.



I somewhat agree with you but it would be better if someone from that company posted the thread about look for testers on there next product. Like for say if Calvinfan posted thread looking for testers for the next Calvin brand puzzle or Uwe Meffert Posted a thread asking for testers for Meffert's brand puzzles. But owners of a shop doing this for allot of new cubes is a bit of an advertisement for the shop and puzzle. But if stared my own online cube shop I would ask if anyone would want to test some free puzzles and help advertise my shop then that would be good.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 8, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> I somewhat agree with you but it would be better if someone from that company posted the thread about look for testers on there next product. Like for say if Calvinfan posted thread looking for testers for the next Calvin brand puzzle or Uwe Meffert Posted a thread asking for testers for Meffert's brand puzzles.



I disagree. Most shops don't sell their own products; the only other shop that I know of that do sell their own products is Witeden.



Michael Womack said:


> But owners of a shop doing this for allot of new cubes is a bit of an advertisement for the shop and puzzle.



Isn't that the whole point?



Michael Womack said:


> But if stared my own online cube shop I would ask if anyone would want to test some free puzzles and help advertise my shop then that would be good.



Again; that's the whole point.


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## rj (Jan 8, 2014)

What if we had a testing section?


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## Sa967St (Jan 8, 2014)

applemobile said:


> I think that a shop providing x amount of cubers with free cubes, on the premise that they provide an unbiast review of the cube, is supporting the community more than enough to merit 'free' advertising.


I think you're misunderstand why most puzzle shops provide free cubes for testing in the first place.

One problem with these threads was that they required potential testers to post in the threads, which continuously bumped these threads to the top of the home page. The shop owners could have simply created online forms for the potential testers to fill out, but instead they explicitly used the threads, which brings much more attention to the shops. 

Also, the threads were a clear violation of the Please Read Prior To Posting Thread in the Hardware Area.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 8, 2014)

rj said:


> What if we had a testing section?



Maybe as a sub section in the Puzzle Shops area; again with a payment of something like $10.


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## Michael Womack (Jan 8, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> Again; that's the whole point.



But the shops that are doing this testing stuff are very popular shops that almost everyone has heard of or bought something from them.


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## cubizh (Jan 8, 2014)

There is nothing wrong with cube shops, but more importantly, manufacturers and puzzle designers to advertise their work and listen to users of their products, to receive feedback and ideas for improvements to apply in future puzzles versions, while at the same time, allowing potential customers to see the advantages (or issues) of what they can potentially be buying. 
The goals being the quality improvement of puzzles designed for speedsolving, the increased popularity of these puzzles and brands/shops/designers, raising their sales and ultimately making for a better equipped speedsolving community.

The main issues and general annoyances of these threads can be divided in two parts:

- Was/Is the feedback that is conveyed by all the testers actually useful in any way (for other than store advertisement and increase sales)? Are actual puzzle designers and manufacturers listening to what people say about their products and do they actually care or take steps to fix them? I know some actually do and contact the people responsable to make improvements but it would be nice to know what they think about it and say a few words about their designs, hoping they would talk about the main issues with them (maybe even after they are discontinued so it doesn't affect sales(?)). I know it's a lot to ask and it has much deeper implications than I am portraying here, and we do not live in a perfect world where everybody speaks the same language and is in the same timezone, but at least that's what I would like to see happen sometimes in this forum, at least.

- The way people applied could probably have been done in a better way, outside of the forum, in something like an online form. This way it made the threads tend to always stay at the top and look like newspaper personal ads: _"Caucasian white educated male seeking for Cube companion to form a long-term relationship and have joint results together in the future."_

I would like to end this by stating that is post is not a knock on puzzle shops/manufacturers at all. I appreciate and commend the idea and what they are trying to do for the community specially since a big part of it doesn't have a steady income that they can spend in hardware so I would like to thank them all for giving this opportunity, even if it promotes them in any way, which is an acceptable tradeoff. But after a while I just zoned out of those threads because really it was just not a lot of useful content beyond other than people's information.


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## Michael Womack (Jan 8, 2014)

cubizh said:


> Are actual puzzle designers and manufacturers listening to what people say about their products and do they actually care or take steps to fix them?



That's why I think that only the company would make the testing thread. Also most of these testing threads in the past 5 months are letting us test a product that is the final version. It would make sense if they where to let us test the Prototypes so they can have our opinion on what can be fix to be on the final product.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 8, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> But the shops that are doing this testing stuff are very popular shops that almost everyone has heard of or bought something from them.



And why? Because they make these tester threads that give their shop good PR.

(And I know there are other reasons, but that is a major reason)



cubizh said:


> There is nothing wrong with cube shops, but more importantly, manufacturers and puzzle designers to advertise their work and listen to users of their products, to receive feedback and ideas for improvements to apply in future puzzles versions, while at the same time, allowing potential customers to see the advantages (or issues) of what they can potentially be buying.
> The goals being the quality improvement of puzzles designed for speedsolving, the increased popularity of these puzzles and brands/shops/designers, raising their sales and ultimately making for a better equipped speedsolving community.
> 
> The main issues and general annoyances of these threads can be divided in two parts:
> ...



I have to agree with all that you have said. Although they do spam the front page and are completely useless until the testers are chosen, they can give valuable information to buyers.

Also, if these threads were put into a testers section on the forum, then they could be hidden from the front page like forum competitions are.


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## Michael Womack (Jan 8, 2014)

ThomasJE said:


> And why? Because they make these tester threads that give their shop good PR.



That's true but think about this let's say I got a free cube to test from a cubing store that is not very popular and when a friend or someone asks me where I got it I would say the online cubestores name and the responce that my friend would give me is something like "Oh wow I have never heard of that store. What is it like?" then I tell them about the store. But if I got a a free testing cube from HKnowstore and tell people that I got it from HKnowstore they would automatically know that store.


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## rj (Jan 8, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> That's true but think about this let's say I got a free cube to test from a cubing store that is not very popular and when a friend or someone asks me where I got it I would say the online cubestores name and the responce that my friend would give me is something like "Oh wow I have never heard of that store. What is it like?" then I tell them about the store. But if I got a a free testing cube from HKnowstore and tell people that I got it from HKnowstore they would automatically know that store.



So we should just have banned calvin from making testing threads?


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## patrickcuber (Jan 8, 2014)

rj said:


> So we should just have banned calvin from making testing threads?



you all have very good points. Maybe instead of banning someone you could just limit the testing threads they are allowed to post per year.


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## rj (Jan 8, 2014)

patrickcuber said:


> you all have very good points. Maybe instead of banning someone you could just limit the testing threads they are allowed to post per year.



Maybe you get 2 testing threads per year with a puzzle shop thread? Limit 1 puzzle per thread?


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## Michael Womack (Jan 8, 2014)

rj said:


> So we should just have banned calvin from making testing threads?



Maybe but he is one of the main people who is making these types of threads.


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## ThomasJE (Jan 8, 2014)

Michael Womack said:


> That's true but think about this let's say I got a free cube to test from a cubing store that is not very popular and when a friend or someone asks me where I got it I would say the online cubestores name and the responce that my friend would give me is something like "Oh wow I have never heard of that store. What is it like?" then I tell them about the store. But if I got a a free testing cube from HKnowstore and tell people that I got it from HKnowstore they would automatically know that store.



I've thought about it. It goes straight back to my point. PR is vital to any business.

There are new cubers all the time. It is impossible for every single cuber in the world to know about a store.

If Calvin wants to make tester threads to get feedback for the good of the cube companies while sacrificing $150 in sales, then that's his choice.



patrickcuber said:


> you all have very good points. Maybe instead of banning someone you could just limit the testing threads they are allowed to post per year.



No-one should be banned from making tester threads. The moderators will make their decision and take all our ideas on board. They will make their decision; let's leave them to it.



Michael Womack said:


> Maybe but he is one of the main people who is making these types of threads.



Not anymore (for now at least).

And by your logic in your previous posts, that's bad for him because he's giving away many many puzzles for free.


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## Rubiks560 (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm confused as to why you're all debating ideas to get these their own sub-forum/bring them back. 
It says in the original post if they wish to do this they may do so in their own thread.
You all still get your free puzzle it's just not a crap ton of threads spamming the front page.


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## TheNextFeliks (Jan 8, 2014)

So pjk, will the current ones be able to announce the new winners? Or I lose the already small chance of being selected?


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## Logical101 (Jan 9, 2014)

what about hknowstore. they dont have a thread


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## patrickcuber (Jan 9, 2014)

Logical101 said:


> what about hknowstore. they dont have a thread



well then he would have to make one.


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## mark49152 (Jan 9, 2014)

applemobile said:


> I think that a shop providing x amount of cubers with free cubes, on the premise that they provide an unbiast review of the cube, is supporting the community more than enough to merit 'free' advertising.


So the community gets the benefit but the website gives away the advertising. Who then pays for the website?


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## applemobile (Jan 9, 2014)

mark49152 said:


> So the community gets the benefit but the website gives away the advertising. Who then pays for the website?



I don't know the financial status of the forum, but isn't that the whole idea of the forum, to benefit the community, who without there is no community, nor company's willing to pay to advertise to them. The vicious circle.


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## mark49152 (Jan 9, 2014)

applemobile said:


> I don't know the financial status of the forum, but isn't that the whole idea of the forum, to benefit the community, who without there is no community, nor company's willing to pay to advertise to them. The vicious circle.


Someone has to pay the bills. Since the cubing stores make money from advertising here, it makes sense to ask them to pay for it. Like you say, it's in their interest to keep the site running too, and those who are too tight to pay up are really just abusing it, IMHO.


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## AFatTick (Jan 10, 2014)

That is where I find all of the latest cubes


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## Michael Womack (Jan 10, 2014)

AFatTick said:


> That is where I find all of the latest cubes



Me too.


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## Jaysammey777 (Jan 10, 2014)

AFatTick said:


> That is where I find all of the latest cubes



And what to look forward to.


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## Johnny (Jan 13, 2014)

Why not just create a separate section for advertisements that requires a small fee per thread creation?


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## Logical101 (Jan 14, 2014)

Johnny said:


> Why not just create a separate section for advertisements that requires a small fee per thread creation?



Genius


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## ThomasJE (Jan 20, 2014)

Has there been any further discussion about this between the mods?


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