# Japan Open



## gillesvdp (Jul 30, 2007)

Check the multiple blindfolded event...
Ryosuke Mondo : 11/12 (time = ?:??:?? )

Mátyás...Please do 13, just to make sure for next time.


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## ExoCorsair (Jul 30, 2007)

Amazing, each continent has an amazing multi BLD solver... (Rowe Hessler, Matyas, Ryosuke)

It will be interesting to see who can do the most over the next couple of years!


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## gillesvdp (Jul 30, 2007)

I just had this idea: I should have gone there and solved 2 cubes BLD...that would have given me the 1st place


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## AvGalen (Jul 30, 2007)

Nice idea, but what if you would have gotten only 1/2 right. That would make for a very expensive trip to get second place.

Besides, you have to be a really good blindfolded solver to get all cubes correct 

What will happen at Worlds with multiple blindfolded. Maybe it will be like in athletics where you have to jump over a certain hight (3 cubes) and if you fail to do it you are out? Then the height gets raised (4 cubes) untill there is only one left. You are allowed to skip heights, but if you fail an attempt it is over. The other option would be that everyone has to tell the judge in secret how many cubes they are going to attempt.


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## AvGalen (Jul 30, 2007)

Does anyone know what the format for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 was? 

I guess it was something like "previously fast proven cubers" don't need to participate in the first round. Everyone that gets sub 1:30 (4x4x4) and sub 3:15 (5x5x5) also goes to the final.

(http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?allResults=All+Results&competitionId=JapanOpen2007)

I don't see any other option because Takayuki Ookusa broke the world record without participating in the first rounds and Bernett Orlando had to perform in the first round, but that time was not 1 of the 5 times in the final.


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## ExoCorsair (Jul 30, 2007)

I am going to guess that a WCA-recognized sub-2:30 average for 5x5x5 is a first round skip, but do not see any similar theme with 4x4x4... And looks like top 3 competitors of the first rounds made it to the final rounds.


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## AvGalen (Jul 30, 2007)

Top 3 makes more sense than the 3:15 minute limit. but "previously fast proven cubers" doesn't make sense to me so far.


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## gillesvdp (Jul 30, 2007)

For BLD, you just had to do a successful solve in the first round.

TO be prequalified, I think you had to have solved once during a competition.


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## ExoCorsair (Jul 30, 2007)

"Those who achieved certain average or single time at Japanese competitions, can skip qualification rounds."


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## hdskull (Jul 30, 2007)

yu jeong min's OH got faster... now only behind the Dzoans... 10.55 was amazing, notice how he's the only one getting sub 12s, but i'm still disappointed at his time. also disappointed @ Yu Nakajima who broke the UWR, but i guess the scrambles were hard ? cuz none did as well as they usually do. but still amazing, top 3 were all sub 13.5avg. 

I wonder how that Lee jae young's gonna do, he says he's gonna break records, and i want to see how fast he REALLY is with 2H and OH @ Busan. I personally think Gungz's gonna take it again and also take at least 2nd place in the world for OH.


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## AvGalen (Jul 30, 2007)

That 3x3x3 final was crazy! Three people in a final getting the 4th-10th-12th and 21st best results ever! (http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/e.php?eventId=333&regionId=&years=&show=100%2BResults&average=Average)

If you look more closely at those results, the only results that were not reached this year are made by former world record holders and world champions:
9Anssi Vanhala13.22
11Shotaro Makisumi13.34
16Jean Pons13.58FranceEurope 2006
And the first result that is not done in 2007/2006 is now on place 66 and is from 2004, not 2005.

Conclusion: People are getting incredibly fast and former records are destroyed continuously.


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## ExoCorsair (Jul 30, 2007)

Eventually though, there's going to be a limit where the times will level off... Because a 40 second 4x4x4 or a sub-60 5x5x5 is just very difficult to imagine.


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## AlexandertheGreat (Jul 30, 2007)

unless new insane methods are developed of course, lol


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## AvGalen (Jul 30, 2007)

I am working on a new method for the 5x5x5 where you do centers + edge-pairing at the same time     Clément Gallet also knows about this method, but I will probably beat him with it. I will post a video of this method as soon as I reach sub2 with it. That might take a while though.

Also, I don't think there will be a limit in the foreseable future. The amount of time the records get beaten by will get smaller though. No longer seconds, but tens of seconds and hundreds of seconds a little later. Just look at the record list, almost all records have been beaten this year, sometimes they have been beaten multiple times! Just compare it to athletics. People are still getting faster on the 100 meter dash.


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## ExoCorsair (Jul 31, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> The amount of time the records get beaten by will get smaller though. No longer seconds, but tens of seconds and hundreds of seconds a little later.



I'm sorry, but isn't that a limit (think calculus)?


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## pjk (Jul 31, 2007)

Look at that, Yu Jeon Min has 3 top 12 avg's in the world.

And yeah, that is a limit for that particular method, but what about other methods today, or even future methods that haven't been beaten? If you look at all methods, you can define a limit... if you look at just one, then you can try to predict limits.


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## ExoCorsair (Jul 31, 2007)

Well, if we put that way, we can set the limit at an optimistic 16 moves/second (UWR moves per minute rounded up), whole cube done in one look and inspection done in 15 seconds, and a super new method done at the optimal 26 (?) moves, then we'd have a sub-2 average!


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## hdskull (Jul 31, 2007)

ExoCorsair said:


> Well, if we put that way, we can set the limit at an optimistic 16 moves/second (UWR moves per minute rounded up), whole cube done in one look and inspection done in 15 seconds, and a super new method done at the optimal 26 (?) moves, then we'd have a sub-2 average!



which is more or less impossible, haha

well actually it is possible, all they have to do is memorize all the different possible 25 move scrambles with white on U and green on F, i bet if u give Matyas some time, he can do it, haha.


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## AvGalen (Jul 31, 2007)

Let me make my claims about the "no limit" more clear.

Obviously the current humans (you never know where evolution might take us) will never do it in sub 1 second, just like 1 second for the 100 meter dash is impossible.

However it is entirely possible for a human to do a sub 9.86 solve or to do a sub 9.77 100 meter dash.

The limit will lie somewhere in between the 1 second and the 9.xx seconds we have reached so far. So while, theoretically, there is a limit the record might be broken hundreds of times (also theoretically).

P.S. Althought the optimal solution has been proven to be not higher than 26, I think it is 20. This is based on statistical analysis of the probability for a 15,16,17,18,19,20 moves optimal solution, large number of random attempts of finding a 21 moves optimal solution (20 was found) and the fact that 20 moves seems always possible with a 2-way solver.


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## Stefan (Aug 1, 2007)

ExoCorsair said:


> Amazing, each continent has an amazing multi BLD solver... (Rowe Hessler, Matyas, Ryosuke)


Why is that amazing? I find it more amazing that you believe there are only three continents.



AvGalen said:


> The limit will lie somewhere in between the 1 second and the 9.xx seconds we have reached so far.


Um... isn't a limit something you can get arbitrarily close to? So do you believe there's a limit, let's say 7.84 seconds? Do you claim it's then impossible to do 7.83 seconds? I don't think we have a limit, only bounds, and infinitely many of them.


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## ExoCorsair (Aug 1, 2007)

Oh, my error. I meant the 3 top represented continents. I don't think Africa, South America, Australia is represented much in the WCA compared to the other 3... Need I say anything about Antarctica?


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## hdskull (Aug 1, 2007)

AvGalen said:


> However it is entirely possible for a human to do a sub 9.86 solve or to do a sub 9.77 100 meter dash.



I'd like to see ppl race, fingers vs. legs, haha cube vs. 100 meter dash. haha that'd be fun to see. OR someone doing both in like 15 secs or something, haha


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## AvGalen (Aug 2, 2007)

> Um... isn't a limit something you can get arbitrarily close to?


I guess that is indeed the mathematical definition. Mathematicaly a limit is a single value that can not be reached, but you can infinitely close to it.

I meant limit in the "average Joe English" way, meaning a limit is a value that will never be reached. For example: "There is a limit to my budget" when you see a $250,000.00 car. The mathematical limit would probably be closer to $12,345.67.

I think bounds would indeed be a better word.


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