# About FMC WCA regulations



## Novriil (Jun 21, 2009)

I understood that I have 60 minutes to solve the cube and write the solution down. So but the writing. R2 is one move.. right? and does it count Y Z and X moves too??


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## mazei (Jun 21, 2009)

rotations don't count.


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## Mike Hughey (Jun 21, 2009)

And yes, R2 is just one move.


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## Edmund (Jun 21, 2009)

And in case you didn't know slice notation is 2 moves. That confused me at first.


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## Novriil (Jun 21, 2009)

okay. Thanks guys  Now I'll try to make new record in this. Fortunately there's only few slice moves in my algs  (H perm is the only one??).


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## fanwuq (Jun 21, 2009)

*hijack thread*

I was not at VA08, but the scramble there was given as
(U2 R2 L' F)*3
R2 U2 R' B'
(D2 B' F' L2)*3
B R' U2 L'
(R U2 B2 U)*2

I remember that at DC08, there was a long scramble of around 40 moves and a short scramble that yields identical position of less than 20 moves from cube explorer. I think we should consistently use the cube explorer scramble, but such a long scramble isn't really fair. You can mess up easily while scrambling. I messed up a few times while trying it and I recall that is one of the reasons why Baian DNFed at that competition. I ended up generating my own cube explorer scramble at home and finally getting a 32 move solution.


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## Dene (Jun 21, 2009)

The problem with the short scramble is that a smart person might find a way to do a reverse scramble but disguise it, or something like that. With the long scramble, there is no way that someone could cheat in that way.


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## Sakarie (Jun 21, 2009)

I haven't ever done FMC in comp, but if you just show the scramble, then you'll know if you scrambled correct?


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## veazer (Jun 21, 2009)

Couldn't someone simply say that they have discovered god's algorithm... do a reverse scramble by cheating, and then explain the steps randomly with gibberish?


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## nitrocan (Jun 22, 2009)

Novriil said:


> okay. Thanks guys  Now I'll try to make new record in this. Fortunately there's only few slice moves in my algs  (H perm is the only one??).



Try [R L U2 R' L', y]?



veazer said:


> Couldn't someone simply say that they have discovered god's algorithm... do a reverse scramble by cheating, and then explain the steps randomly with gibberish?



They'd give you the cube without the scramble and you'd fail.


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## AvGalen (Jun 22, 2009)

FMC-rules: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#fewestmovessolving

E2e) The solution of the competitor must not be in any way related to the scrambling algorithm. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.

Also, for all 3x3x3 scrambles Cube Explorer should be used. To me that means that those long scrambles are not WCA-legal


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## MistArts (Jun 22, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> FMC-rules: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#fewestmovessolving
> 
> E2e) The solution of the competitor must not be in any way related to the scrambling algorithm. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.
> 
> Also, for all 3x3x3 scrambles Cube Explorer should be used. To me that means that those long scrambles are not WCA-legal



I asked Daniel (the host) about the long scramble at VA08. He then asked Tyson about it. Daniel then told me that Tyson said the scramble was OK. To me, it seems like the regulations clearly states that all 3x3 events should use Cube Explorer for generating scrambles.



fanwuq said:


> *hijack thread*
> 
> I was not at VA08, but the scramble there was given as
> (U2 R2 L' F)*3
> ...



I think DC08 had a ~23 +/- 3 move scramble. I DNFed DC08 because I had still used rotations in FM back then and wrote y' instead of y or it could have been vice versa.


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## AvGalen (Jun 22, 2009)

Scrambling and writing down a correct solution are part of the FMC-event. I know it sucks when mis-scramble and lose time. And it certainly sucks when you make a small mistake like y' instead of y. But everyone has that problem and you simply have to reserve time for scrambling and checking your solution.


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## Swordsman Kirby (Jun 22, 2009)

MistArts said:


> I had still used rotations in FM back then



lolrotations



> But everyone has that problem and you simply have to reserve time for scrambling and checking your solution.



US Nationals 2008, 45 minutes. Kind of got boring.


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## mrCage (Jun 22, 2009)

Hi 

I have been to a few fewest moves events at major competitions. I must say that i absolutely prefer to have a reference scrambled cube passed round so i can verify my own scrambling. Once i have verified it i keep one of my cubes (you are allowed 3 cubes for fewest moves) scrambled for future reference. And yes scrambling and verification takes an excessive amount of time. Actual solving may take up only about 60% of the time or less. Avoiding cube rotations is a great time saver wrt verification. A fixed color scheme is also of great help (you cannot help but turning the whole cube sometimes while inspecting). And some final advice: try to write down every turn you explore as you do them. It is surprisingly hard to recall a few turns after a while

Per

PS! Some final final advice. It is not a completely bad idea to have a "mediocre" backup solve in case you mess up trying to improve. 60 minutes is a surprisingly short time. Do not use insertions in competition unless you have a bit experience with it (yes you are allowed to use stickers for this). When trying to insert work the skeleton backwards ... Do not only practise unlimited time but also official 60 mins fewest moves!!

Per


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## Stefan (Jun 22, 2009)

mrCage said:


> When trying to insert work the skeleton backwards


I do that, though I'd say it's mostly a habit. Is there a real advantage over working it forwards?


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## guusrs (Jun 22, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> mrCage said:
> 
> 
> > When trying to insert work the skeleton backwards
> ...



I prefer forward.

Gus


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## mrCage (Jun 22, 2009)

AvGalen said:


> FMC-rules: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#fewestmovessolving
> 
> E2e) The solution of the competitor must not be in any way related to the scrambling algorithm. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.
> 
> Also, for all 3x3x3 scrambles Cube Explorer should be used. To me that means that those long scrambles are not WCA-legal


 
The idea behind thos longer scrambles were that they had fewer turns to remember. Apparently some people had problems with them (the number of repeats). I found that format very handy as i easy remembered the scrambles after some rounds setting up the cube.

Btw, i never saw the big deal in having a random state scramble rather than a random turns scramble. The scramble would still be the same for everyone. Oh well. If one could easily convert from a ramdom state scramble to the "repeat format" scramble that would be nice. I dont see how this is easily possible ...

Per


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## mrCage (Jun 22, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> mrCage said:
> 
> 
> > When trying to insert work the skeleton backwards
> ...


 
Well, your cube is usually at the end of the skeleton when you are done finding it, so it saves time i guess. Is it just my SUBJECTIVE advice. In addition, you would naturally be at the end of skeleton when you add stickers to the cube ...

Tracing 3 cubies (with orientation) is hard enough without stickers. Tracing 4 or more cubies without added stickers becomes near impossible. Writing it down somehow is possible but awkward 

Per


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## Novriil (Jun 22, 2009)

So I made a 45 moves record today (unoffical). But I had some questions:

So I'll get a sheet of paper where I have the scramble alg. And my cube. Then I have an hour to write down the fewest moves taking solve?? But how do I write it down? When I don't use rotations then it's pretty WUT? Or you write with rotations, but they don't count as moves? Could somebody just explain it to me so I understand it


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## Johannes91 (Jun 22, 2009)

Novriil said:


> When I don't use rotations then it's pretty WUT?


?



Novriil said:


> Or you write with rotations, but they don't count as moves?


Many prefer not using them because it's easy to make mistakes, but it's up to you. They don't count as moves. You can use write a T-perm as (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F') or (y x U x x x U x U' x x x U' x U' y x x x U x U2 y x U' x x x U' x U' x x x U x U x x x U' y x U'), both are 14 moves.


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## Novriil (Jun 22, 2009)

But does the judge look at me all the time then?? Or how can he confirm that I'm solving right. When I'm doing the 1st F2L, then second and turning cube (y) in the middle of that just like: RURURUURUR y RRURUURURUR I'll just write RURURUR RURUURUR Or do I have to mark (URURURURUUR)(RURURUUURLL) so it can be recognized? Dam it's so hard to understand  Cause I don't even know all the ZXY turns by my head


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## Stefan (Jun 22, 2009)

Novrill, you get a sheet with a scramble and you return a sheet with your solution.


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## hr.mohr (Jun 22, 2009)

Novriil, some people write their solution in groups with spacing between each move. Like this:

R F R' B ...
U L2 D R' ...
etc ...

It's more easy this way for you to check if the solution has been written correctly and more easy for judges to verify your solution.

(and yeah it sucks to forget a ' in a sune and get a DNF)


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## Novriil (Jun 22, 2009)

Okay.. I think I understand


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## Stefan (Jun 23, 2009)

Novriil said:


> Okay.. I think I understand


I'm not so sure. Can you give us an example, a scramble and your solution for it?


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## Ton (Jun 23, 2009)

Novriil said:


> But does the judge look at me all the time then?? Or how can he confirm that I'm solving right. When I'm doing the 1st F2L, then second and turning cube (y) in the middle of that just like: RURURUURUR y RRURUURURUR I'll just write RURURUR RURUURUR Or do I have to mark (URURURURUUR)(RURURUUURLL) so it can be recognized? Dam it's so hard to understand  Cause I don't even know all the ZXY turns by my head



I would suggest you read the WCA regulation  In more clear terms RTFM 

Cube rotation may me written down as [r] [f]


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## AvGalen (Jun 23, 2009)

StefanPochmann said:


> Novriil said:
> 
> 
> > Okay.. I think I understand
> ...


And for that, may I recommend the FMC event in the weekly competition?


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## Novriil (Jun 24, 2009)

Okay I'll do the weekly  soon


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